# What might this Masamoto have looked like?



## Carl Kotte (Jul 18, 2019)

Here are some pictures of a knife bought used some time ago. It was pretty beaten up, but I decided to give it a go. Very happy I did. Now, in its current state (I haven’t cared to make large modifications) it has a somewhat unusual profile which makes me wonder; how did it once look? What was the original profile? It is approx 280 mm. 












You see a bit of overgrind here that I have neglected. 




Marks from a previous owner, maybe? 

My own uneducated guess or hypothesis is that this knife had a more standard Gyuto profile, with a higher heel, and that it has been worn down through use (it looks like a classic overgrind due to excessive use of honing rod). But this is pure speculation and it would be fun to know what you guys think. Purely for the sake of satisying an intellectual curiosity.


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## Matus (Jul 18, 2019)

I also think it was a gyuto. The shape of the blade towards the tip would suggest that. A choil shot could tell us more. Now it could be an interesting project to turn it into a suji.


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## ojisan (Jul 18, 2019)

The previous owner was Akimoto-san!


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## Benuser (Jul 18, 2019)

What is the remaining width at the heel?


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 18, 2019)

ojisan said:


> The previous owner was Akimoto-san!



Thanks! Excuse my ignorance, is that a common name?


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## ojisan (Jul 18, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> Thanks! Excuse my ignorance, is that a common name?



Yes, it's a pretty common family name.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 18, 2019)

Matus said:


> I also think it was a gyuto. The shape of the blade towards the tip would suggest that. A choil shot could tell us more. Now it could be an interesting project to turn it into a suji.



Yes, my thought exactly! It might be worth reprofiling it completely to turn it into a Sujihiki eventually. Or, I will use it as it is, continue sharpening and thinning it when needed - and it will step-by-step turn into sujihiki... just in time when my children are ready to inherit it [emoji16]


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 18, 2019)

ojisan said:


> Yes, it's a pretty common family name.



Then it will go under the name Akimoto-san in honor of the previous owner. Thanks!


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 18, 2019)

Benuser said:


> What is the remaining width at the heel?



Will check when I can! Thanks!


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## labor of love (Jul 18, 2019)

I love the big gyuto handle on sujihiki sized blade. Looks quite badass


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 18, 2019)

labor of love said:


> I love the big gyuto handle on sujihiki sized blade. Looks quite badass



Yeah, you’re right! It looks pretty badass. And there might be advantages to having a big handle/narrower blade combination.
I guess that, at least, this knife will save me from buying a Gyutohiki. [emoji41]


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 18, 2019)

Benuser said:


> What is the remaining width at the heel?



Approx 45 mm at heel, 40 at the current belly (or the point where the curve takes off towards the tip), 275 in length.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 19, 2019)

A quick follow-up. I realize it is hard to answer, but I thought I’d try anyway. Anyone knows what steel this one is made of? It is pretty, but not overly, reactive and sharpens up easily. Thanks in advance!


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## HRC_64 (Jul 19, 2019)

Some of the 270mm+ suji's from sanjo in aroud 43mm Tall IIRC so you can probably find various uses for this guy as a project knife.
Looks originally like a big 300mm gyuto from a butchery shop after many years of use/daily sharpening etc...


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 20, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> Some of the 270mm suji's from sanjo in aroud 43mm Tall IIRC so you can probably find various uses for this guy as a project knife.
> Looks originally like a big 300mm gyuto from a butchery shop after many years of use/daily sharpening etc...



Thanks! Good to know about Sanjo sujihikis. If or when I decide to make more radical changes to the profile it will be good to have some model to replicate.
I like the butchery idea! It is a bit fascinating imagining what it has been through.


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## Benuser (Jul 20, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> A quick follow-up. I realize it is hard to answer, but I thought I’d try anyway. Anyone knows what steel this one is made of? It is pretty, but not overly, reactive and sharpens up easily. Thanks in advance!


Isn't it one of Takefu's V2 series?


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 20, 2019)

Benuser said:


> Isn't it one of Takefu's V2 series?



Might very well be! Great, thanks a lot! [emoji1305]


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 13, 2019)

A quick update. After a lot use and some careful thinning inbetween it’s started to behave pretty well. Not overly wedgy, keeps a nice edge. At this pace it will be a sujihiki in about 10 years or so. [emoji12]


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## Benuser (Sep 13, 2019)

How have you dealt with its asymmetry? From the photo I would say it has been attenuated.


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## Seth (Sep 13, 2019)

Masamoto, right?


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 13, 2019)

Benuser said:


> How have you dealt with its asymmetry? From the photo I would say it has been attenuated.



I think you’re absolutely right! It has been attenuated. It was already on its way there (from the previous owner), and I’ve simply followed the beaten track. The knife might be as much as 7-10 mm shorter at the heel (than it was/might have been/ when new), so the geometry is a bit messed up. There’s much work and a lot of steel left though. Would you suggest working more on the right hand side? Any other advice? Thanks [emoji16]


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 13, 2019)

Seth said:


> Masamoto, right?



Yes, right!!!


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## Benuser (Sep 13, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> I think you’re absolutely right! It has been attenuated. It was already on its way there (from the previous owner), and I’ve simply followed the beaten track. The knife might be as much as 7-10 mm shorter at the heel (than it was/might have been/ when new), so the geometry is a bit messed up. There’s much work and a lot of steel left though. Would you suggest working more on the right hand side? Any other advice? Thanks [emoji16]


No drastic measures, please. Enough width has been lost already. 
If you want to restore a bit the original configuration you may thin on the right face immediately behind the bevel, and thin the entire left face except for the area near to the edge. So you flatten the left side and off-center the edge to the left. This may improve food release and performance a little bit. For flattening the entire left I would use coarse automotive sandpaper. Again, stay far away from the edge.


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 14, 2019)

@Benuser Thanks a lot! I’m not sure that enough width has been lost. It is for sure pretty far from the original. But that is alright, I think, given that the goal is to end up with a much narrower more standard sujihiki-like profile. 
I will make sure to hit the right side behind the edge.


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 14, 2019)

It is far from 50/50. From the picture it may appear to be something close to 40/60, but in fact it is closer to 30/70.


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## Benuser (Sep 14, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> It is far from 50/50. From the picture it may appear to be something close to 40/60, but in fact it is closer to 30/70.


Perhaps this photo is helpful. Misono yo-deba, heavy, thick, but gives an idea of what you might aim for.



Right bevel in one continuous arc with the convex face. Left one only as needed to get steering acceptable.
If I insist about not touching the very edge when thinning, it's all about sparing material and reducing the life span any further. A new edge would come in a thicker part of the blade and all thinning would be have useless.


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 14, 2019)

@Benuser Great! Once again: thank you very much.
That Misono looks like a monster. Love it. Is it yours?


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## Benuser (Sep 14, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> @Benuser Great! Once again: thank you very much.
> That Misono looks like a monster. Love it. Is it yours?


You're so welcome, Carl. 
The Misono is a little, most effective monster. Got it from @preizzo. Use it when I'm afraid to damage an edge. Looks like a simple santoku, is just three times its weight.


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## dafox (Nov 1, 2019)

I got a project knife on EBay, looks pretty similar to the knife in this post, but quite a bit thinner. Wonder what kind of steel it is? Wonder if this could have been made before the Masamotos split up? The kanji bears some similarity to both Sohonten and Tsujiki.


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## dafox (Nov 1, 2019)

Whoops, not thinner, saw that pic of the Misono yo deba. The Masamotos look pretty similar.


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## dafox (Nov 4, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> Here are some pictures of a knife bought used some time ago. It was pretty beaten up, but I decided to give it a go. Very happy I did. Now, in its current state (I haven’t cared to make large modifications) it has a somewhat unusual profile which makes me wonder; how did it once look? What was the original profile? It is approx 280 mm.
> View attachment 56918
> 
> View attachment 56919
> ...


I got a knife by the same maker, please see my post on your thread. Did you find out anything more about your knife?


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## Carl Kotte (Nov 4, 2019)

dafox said:


> I got a knife by the same maker, please see my post on your thread. Did you find out anything more about your knife?



Hi, sorry, didn’t see this before! Yes, I agree, there’s a clear resemblance. As for your question: I was told that the steel is probably v2 (not white #2) and that the knife might have been a big Gyuto. Apart from that I know little else. But it’s a great knife and I’m sure yours is too! Congrats! [emoji16]


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## Echotraveler (Nov 23, 2019)

sorry for my ignorance this knifes shown look very much like my tsukiji aritusugu!


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## Carl Kotte (Nov 23, 2019)

Echotraveler said:


> sorry for my ignorance this knifes shown look very much like my tsukiji aritusugu!



You might be right! Ignorance is shareware [emoji16]


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## KenHash (Jan 12, 2020)

I only looked at this thread now, but that 誂 on the left sid blade might indicate that it was custom made.


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 12, 2020)

KenHash said:


> I only looked at this thread now, but that 誂 on the left sid blade might indicate that it was custom made.



Cool! Thanks! [emoji1303]


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