# Honyaki gyuto - which one to get for my 40th birthday?



## daddy yo yo (Jan 22, 2017)

Hi guys,

I have hijacked this thread: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/27514-Mizuno-Tanrejo-gyuto-white-2-honyaki?p=464818&viewfull=1#post464818 for asking some questions about honyaki gyutos, mainly Mizuno Tanrenjo.

Why? I will turn 40 this year and am thinking about getting myself something special. I am considering getting myself a *240mm honyaki wa-gyuto*. I have looked at Mizuno Tanrenjo, Konosuke, Watanabe, Masamoto and Gesshin Hide. Some of these are available in different steels, but I think my steel of choice is Blue #2. Some are available in White #2, but edge retention should be "better" with Blue #2, right?!

Are there any other honyaki gyutos which I am missing, anything worth having a look?

Gesshin Hide, while being the most expensive, is among my top 3, unfortunately not available in Blue #2 at the moment, only White #2. Watanbe is available in Blue #2, and probably the cheapest. Mizuno Tanrenjo in Blue #2 and White #2, and price-wise somewhere in the middle between Gesshin Hide and Watanabe.

What do you guys think? Can anyone compare these knives? Does anyone have recommendations for specific steels or manufacturers, and if so, why?

Cheers and thanks,
daddy


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## dreamwalker (Jan 22, 2017)

Happy Birthday to you in advance!
wish you find your right Honayki blade.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jan 22, 2017)

I'd be looking at Sukenari too?


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## bkultra (Jan 22, 2017)

Masamoto and Konosuke W#2 is no longer available and hasn't been for years. If you do prefer B#2 this shouldn't matter. In fact I would look for a smith that favors blue steel like Watanabe or Shiraki


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## panda (Jan 22, 2017)

if you are only interested in aogami, then probably go with watanabe whos specialty is blue.


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## supersayan3 (Jan 22, 2017)

Happy birthday [emoji512]
As the Japanese suggest, with Japanese sharpening routines, the White lasts 10 years, the blue 15 years lifetime, though I have no clue what are the pro Japanese sharpening routines and how they apply in western cooking (don't remember which brand had given this lifetime for Honyakis) kikuichi I think, but I am not I remember correct the brand that indicated these things. 
I think they are all perfect

Two more options in the blend: 
Sukenari and ichimonji(my unicorn) make from white 1. 
And if you manage to get the ichimonji,(western or cow bone handle) the 24 cm must have cutting edge length 24,3 and 48mm height(according to a member owner)


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## Godslayer (Jan 22, 2017)

Sukenari 270(runs short) and grab a custom handle to make it super special. Id also look at tesshu, same as the konosuke just less expensive because it lacks the konosuke stamp. Ikeda san is also worth a look, He just finished a 300mm yanagi for me and its probably the best polish ive have ever seen on any knife period.


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## chinacats (Jan 22, 2017)

Congrats! I like the idea of the Hide...and white steel will make for an easier to see hamon. Home use should work great with white steel.


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## malexthekid (Jan 22, 2017)

James from knives and stones has had some amazing blue 2 mizu honyakis... maybe shoot him an email about restock...

Or you could go the custom route since its a significant amd special event. Mert dors great honyakis, as does Scorpion Forge, and heaps other.


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## aboynamedsuita (Jan 22, 2017)

If you ever think you may want to build a "set", Watanabe is probably the way to go as he also made me a honyaki petty, suji and kensaki yanagi. I'm not sure if that option is available with the others.


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## daddy yo yo (Jan 23, 2017)

Thank you all for the bday wishes and the recommendations.

I hadn't thought about Ichimonji, Sukenari and Knives&Stones. However, I will most likely decide between Mizuno, Gesshin Hide and Watanabe... It's more of a feeling-driven decision, although others might be equally exquisite!


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## Lazarus (Jan 23, 2017)

Why not have a Mert Tansu Honyaki made? he's making me a blue 2 gyuto now.


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## daddy yo yo (Jan 23, 2017)

Lazarus said:


> Why not have a Mert Tansu Honyaki made? he's making me a blue 2 gyuto now.


I know and I am sure his knives are exquisite. However, I love the idea of having a honyaki made by a Japanese maker... Can't explain why, it's just a feeling...


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## Chicagohawkie (Jan 23, 2017)

Tesshu, Hide and Konosuke Blue Honyakis all forged by Shiraki I believe.


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## Vancouverguy (Jan 23, 2017)

Chicagohawkie said:


> Tesshu, Hide and Konosuke Blue Honyakis all forged by Shiraki I believe.



I thought it's the Konosuke White honyaki's are forged by Shiraki.


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## bkultra (Jan 23, 2017)

Shiraki is known for his work with blue steel, he is also rumored to be the Fujiyama (blue) and Honyaki (blue) smith.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jan 23, 2017)

Shiraki, as in Carter's sensei?


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## Vancouverguy (Jan 23, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Shiraki, as in Carter's sensei?



correct Kenichi Shiraki. maker of their Shiro line.


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## bkultra (Jan 23, 2017)

Carter considers Shiraki to be the best living smith, but it was not who he trained under. In fact if you can listen to the story in one of his videos. He heard how great Shiraki was but unfortunately he lived in a part of Japan that was pretty far from were he was training.


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## panda (Jan 23, 2017)

does carter offer any insight on why he thinks that is the best smith?


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## bkultra (Jan 23, 2017)

This is the video I believe, but keep in mind he also claims that white steel is his prefed steel (because that is all Murray uses). It's pretty common knowledge he is known for his work with blue steel.

[video=youtube;ZXDjsZXM7Ss]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXDjsZXM7Ss[/video]


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## Unstoppabo (Jan 23, 2017)

Maybe also take a look at Yoshikazu Ikeda? No experience with his honyaki but ee has white #2 mizu honyaki gyuto. I read that he was the maker of quite a few ultra premium honyaki offerings of some popular brands as well


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## daddy yo yo (Jan 24, 2017)

supersayan3 said:


> As the Japanese suggest, with Japanese sharpening routines, the White lasts 10 years, the blue 15 years lifetime



Hmmmm... :scratchhead: That means if I buy a White #2 Honyaki I can buy a new knife for my 50th!? :eyebrow::spiteful::wink:


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## supersayan3 (Jan 24, 2017)

I think you will like it so much, you will be getting one at every birthday [emoji322]


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## Chicagohawkie (Jan 24, 2017)

Vancouverguy said:


> I thought it's the Konosuke White honyaki's are forged by Shiraki.



Tatsuo Ikeda - The late Honyaki Master! Currently there is nothing that approches the visual beauty of his knives.


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## tienowen (Jan 24, 2017)

Sakai Jikko just release honyaki gyuto, they look very nice. Here the link of those knife. Mt.Fuji & The Moon Gyuto
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPomOjLjjHK/?taken-by=jikkocutlery


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## bkultra (Jan 25, 2017)

I would like to point out that just because rumors suggest that this smith is behind a certain knife does not make it fact. These type of rumors often have a way of transforming into fact when they are often wrong. This also applies to the guesses we make at mystery steels. This is something I myself am at fault for doing in the past and the problem is once posted on the internet it's there to stay.


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## JBroida (Jan 25, 2017)

bkultra said:


> I would like to point out that just because rumors suggest that this smith is behind a certain knife does not make it fact. These type of rumors often have a way of transforming into fact when they are often wrong. This also applies to the guesses we make at mystery steels. This is something I myself am at fault for doing in the past and the problem is once posted on the internet it's there to stay.



thank you so much for saying this


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## supersayan3 (Jan 25, 2017)

tienowen said:


> Sakai Jikko just release honyaki gyuto, they look very nice. Here the link of those knife. Mt.Fuji & The Moon Gyuto
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BPomOjLjjHK/?taken-by=jikkocutlery



Looks very very nice, where can you order them from?


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## Omega (Jan 25, 2017)

bkultra said:


> I would like to point out that just because rumors suggest that this smith is behind a certain knife does not make it fact. These type of rumors often have a way of transforming into fact when they are often wrong. This also applies to the guesses we make at mystery steels. This is something I myself am at fault for doing in the past and the problem is once posted on the internet it's there to stay.



I really, REALLY wish these things weren't so secret.. I mean, I understand (as well as I can) /Why/ they do, but from a standpoint of wanting to find and try each of the different Masters before they're gone.. it's rough. 

Come on Jon- break your vows of secrecy. Give us this knowledge ;(


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## tienowen (Jan 26, 2017)

supersayan3 said:


> Looks very very nice, where can you order them from?


I think you can contact by email ask for a price a time to make the knife. I waiting for my knife to sent from Japan, Yanagi Kiritsuke with ebony handle 300mm took around 3 weeks to made and 1 more week to ship back the US. I didn't order Honyaki, but I sure they will make to order if you interest. I only bought moribashi and yanigi to try out first. For the Sakimaru Tabohiki Honyaki Gin3 -300mm around 118k yen for the knife. I think Gyuto around that price or a bit extra.
Here the link the website and contact: http://www.jikko.jp/. [email protected]


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## supersayan3 (Jan 26, 2017)

Thank you, much appreciated [emoji120]


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jan 26, 2017)

"Sakimaru Tabohiki Honyaki Gin3 -300mm"

Differential hardening and Gingami? Is this possible?


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## fatboylim (Jan 26, 2017)

Omega said:


> I really, REALLY wish these things weren't so secret.. I mean, I understand (as well as I can) /Why/ they do, but from a standpoint of wanting to find and try each of the different Masters before they're gone.. it's rough.
> 
> Come on Jon- break your vows of secrecy. Give us this knowledge ;(



Please Don't tell your secrets Jon! 

Otherwise new cheap a$$ knife sellers will resell your carefully chosen products, devaluing the expertise and pricing yourself out of the market. Furthermore it will mean your good service becomes too expensive to the cheap a$$ knife seller with cheap and cap delivery service. 

Your trust is well deserved and well held. Please don't give it away.


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## bkultra (Jan 26, 2017)

It's often the blacksmiths themselves that wish to remain anonymous as well.


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## tienowen (Jan 26, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> "Sakimaru Tabohiki Honyaki Gin3 -300mm"
> 
> Differential hardening and Gingami? Is this possible?



I not sure, they have picture on their Instagram, I send the email and ask for price. The knife come out very nice.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BN0QE75DZ2z/?taken-by=jikkocutlery


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## supersayan3 (Jan 26, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Please Don't tell your secrets Jon!
> 
> Otherwise new cheap a$$ knife sellers will resell your carefully chosen products, devaluing the expertise and pricing yourself out of the market. Furthermore it will mean your good service becomes too expensive to the cheap a$$ knife seller with cheap and cap delivery service.
> 
> Your trust is well deserved and well held. Please don't give it away.



In the 'smart' times we live in... +1

I have never bought from John, because of the Mail price, but as far as I see on photos, all of his knives have amazing grind


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## Ruso (Jan 26, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Please Don't tell your secrets Jon!
> 
> Otherwise new cheap a$$ knife sellers will resell your carefully chosen products, devaluing the expertise and pricing yourself out of the market. Furthermore it will mean your good service becomes too expensive to the cheap a$$ knife seller with cheap and cap delivery service.
> 
> Your trust is well deserved and well held. Please don't give it away.



You have a point but you sound a little butthurt....


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## fatboylim (Jan 27, 2017)

Ruso said:


> You have a point but you sound a little butthurt....


Not me, just the cheap vendors have major butt hurt. They never last.


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## daddy yo yo (Jan 31, 2017)

Unstoppabo said:


> Maybe also take a look at Yoshikazu Ikeda?


done!



Chicagohawkie said:


> Tatsuo Ikeda - The late Honyaki Master! Currently there is nothing that approches the visual beauty of his knives.


do you have more information? Where to buy or contact?

Kenichi Shiraki, can he be contacted directly?

Not saying I want to deal with the smiths directly, I would prefer to buy from JKI (Gesshin Hide) but the Blue #2 isn't available and a date for restock is unknown...


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## bkultra (Jan 31, 2017)

daddy yo yo said:


> do you have more information? Where to buy or contact?





Tatsuo Ikeda has passed away


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## daddy yo yo (Jan 31, 2017)

Apologies and sorry. I did not know...


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## daddy yo yo (Feb 6, 2017)

A more general question: white #2 or blue #2? And why? Where do you see/feel/experience differences?

Both are available from Mizuno.
Both are theoretically available from Gesshin Hide, with blue #2 being currently out of stock (re-stock unknown).
Watanabe is blue #2.


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## daddy yo yo (Feb 7, 2017)

What about Ichimonji? I read somewhere that it is a laser. Is that true? I am not such a fan of lasers...


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## jkao (Feb 11, 2017)

Which one did you decide on?


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## daddy yo yo (Feb 11, 2017)

I really want the Gesshin Hide Blue #2! I'll wait. If I can't get it in a fair amount of time I'll go for Mizuno or Watanabe.


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## daddy yo yo (Feb 15, 2017)

Quick update: I really like that Gesshin Hide. In fact, I like the Gesshin Hide Honyaki gyutos so much that I can't really decide between the white #2 (currently available) and the blue #2 (currently unavailable). I thought I would wait for the blue #2 as it should have better edge retention and is a tiny bit thicker. However, I am a home chef only and thus edge retention maybe isn't the most important thing for me, white #2 has less edge retention but is easier to sharpen. What do you guys think?

Another more affordable Honyaki is the Hiromoto Honyaki. I believe it is a good knife, the price is reasonable but it's just not that much bling-bling. This could be a knife I'd buy without a special occasion such as my 40th birthday...


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## inzite (Feb 15, 2017)

daddy yo yo said:


> Quick update: I really like that Gesshin Hide. In fact, I like the Gesshin Hide Honyaki gyutos so much that I can't really decide between the white #2 (currently available) and the blue #2 (currently unavailable). I thought I would wait for the blue #2 as it should have better edge retention and is a tiny bit thicker. However, I am a home chef only and thus edge retention maybe isn't the most important thing for me, white #2 has less edge retention but is easier to sharpen. What do you guys think?
> 
> Another more affordable Honyaki is the Hiromoto Honyaki. I believe it is a good knife, the price is reasonable but it's just not that much bling-bling. This could be a knife I'd buy without a special occasion such as my 40th birthday...



yeah the hiromotos were never bling bling unless dave martell gives it his touch lol. I believe someone here has the hide blue honyaki and found it a bit too thick, not sure if the white 2 is thinner but the konosuke or kenichi shiraki variants should be a good bet if you want bling plus performance.


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## bkultra (Feb 15, 2017)

daddy yo yo said:


> Quick update: I really like that Gesshin Hide. In fact, I like the Gesshin Hide Honyaki gyutos so much that I can't really decide between the white #2 (currently available) and the blue #2 (currently unavailable). I thought I would wait for the blue #2 as it should have better edge retention and is a tiny bit thicker. However, I am a home chef only and thus edge retention maybe isn't the most important thing for me, white #2 has less edge retention but is easier to sharpen. What do you guys think?



Talk to Jon and get his input, safe to say he would know both knives best. Kenichi Shiraki is best known for his work with blue steel, but that doesn't mean his white steels knives are inferior.


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 15, 2017)

Tesshu Honyakis over at aframes are the best for the money. Id check them out. Shiraki does them as well.


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## jkao (Feb 15, 2017)

Other than edge retention, is the blue steel a little less reactive compared to the white?


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## bkultra (Feb 15, 2017)

jkao said:


> Other than edge retention, is the blue steel a little less reactive compared to the white?



Generally speaking yes blue is less reactive because of the added Chromium


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## chinacats (Feb 15, 2017)

but the white will show the hamon better...


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## daddy yo yo (Apr 2, 2017)

So, I made myself an early 40th birthday present: Gesshin Hide White #2 Honyaki 240mm...

Haven't dared to use the knife much because it is so perfect. 

If W#2 shows the hamon better than B#2 I am glad I went for W#2! It's almost invisible and my cameras have failed to show the hamon in different lighting conditions. 

I have used the knife only for vegetables. I literally flies through potatoes!!! &#128561;


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## Customfan (Apr 2, 2017)

Congratulations! Great choice, its hard to go wrong with those options....


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## brooksie967 (Apr 2, 2017)

bkultra said:


> Shiraki is known for his work with blue steel, he is also rumored to be the Fujiyama (blue) and Honyaki (blue) smith.



Tosho knife arts leaked a few photos and labeled them, at separate times, with different names. First came a photo titled something like "Fujiyama smith" then later on another saying "Tanaka ...." as in Yoshikazu Tanaka. I recently purchased a Tanaka and it has the same stamp on it as my Konosuke Fyjiyama blue #1 petty. That's as much proof as I need to be certain that at least the blue #1 stuff is forged by him. I've also been told by people, vendors, that Shiraki is absolutely a forger of certain Fujiyama knives (the white steel ones) and recently I spoke with someone who pointed out that certain honyaki in white were made by Ashi and it makes sense as they look identical. Fujiyama is at least 3 smiths and probably more.


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## zitangy (Apr 2, 2017)

Congrattions..



brooksie967 said:


> Tosho knife arts leaked a few photos and labeled them, at separate times, with different names. First came a photo titled something like "Fujiyama smith" then later on another saying "Tanaka ...." as in Yoshikazu Tanaka. I recently purchased a Tanaka and it has the same stamp on it as my Konosuke Fyjiyama blue #1 petty. That's as much proof as I need to be certain that at least the blue #1 stuff is forged by him. I've also been told by people, vendors, that Shiraki is absolutely a forger of certain Fujiyama knives (the white steel ones) and recently I spoke with someone who pointed out that certain honyaki in white were made by Ashi and it makes sense as they look identical. Fujiyama is at least 3 smiths and probably more.




IF you take out the handle, I believe that some makers wld put their "mark" on the tang? another reason for my request for a traditional handle Ho wood or yew and the other reason ... for full maintenance and polishing.

From Ashi... was told politely lead time 2 years and not to place an order. A custom order still in waiting since 18 months age

rgds z


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