# Martell Knife Blanks: WIP



## Kippington

As many of us know, Dave recently recently sold a few knife blanks to keen enthusiasts around the world, asking the question: *Want to try your hand at making a knife?*
Now we have a great opportunity to display our attempts at tackling this challenge head on!







It just so happens that in my corner of the world, JayGee and Marek07 bought three of the blanks between them. They decided it was a good idea to start the first part of this project on a rainy Friday in my garage (where a 2x72" grinder happens to reside :biggrin.

I figured it was a bad idea to throw them straight into grinding the bevels by hand, so I set them up with a crudely improvised grinding jig. It was incredibly wonky and they had to deal with it's wobbles and shakes as best they could. Even with the jig controlling most of the angle, there are plenty of other subtleties to learn while grinding a knife.

The blanks had no bends or warps and the flats were straight, so we decided to try our hand at flat grinding the bevels as a first step. Marek started on the nakiri, which was done at the shallowest grind of the three, making it the hardest to look good. He slipped up at the very end and scratched up the side a bit, but we'll see what we can do to fix it up later:






Jay had a go on his sujihiki. Dave designed a nice K-tip at the end of the suji which lines up nicely with the height of the shinogi line, making it easy for Jay to see where he was aiming to grind:






Side by side with a Shiro Kamo Black Dragon - slightly off angle (both of them are 300mm long):






And I spent a short while on the gyuto before it got late and we had to call it a night.
We only had the time to work on one side of each knife (the other sides are untouched) but it was a solid start. It took the fellas about an hour each to get to this stage - not bad for a first attempt. Thankfully we had variable speed on the grinder, top speed can get pretty wild for a beginner!






Hopefully we can get some others that bought blanks to share their journeys too!


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## Doug

Subscribed! Look forward to following this thread. It'll be a while before I start on mine so I hope to pick up lots of tips.:thumbsup:


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## Marek07

While we're using Kipp's grinder, knowledge and guidance (many, many thanks!), I'd love to see Badgertooth's progress on pavement.
:wink:


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## Nemo

Well done guys. Very nice consistent bevels. Not as easy to achieve as it looks!


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## Dave Martell

Hey check it out, nice start fellas!


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## Dave Martell

What are the handle plans?


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## Kippington

Plans? What plans? We're working it out as we go! :biggrin:
Seeing as these aren't my blanks, maybe JayGee or Marek can give you a better answer.


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## valgard

Marek07 said:


> While we're using Kipp's grinder, knowledge and guidance (many, many thanks!), I'd love to see Badgertooth's progress on pavement.
> :wink:



I've actually seen Tanner grinding a cleaver on his parking lot's pavement a few months ago lol.


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## Marek07

Dave Martell said:


> What are the handle plans?


Much like Kipp said... what plans? Once the grinding gets done, I'll think about handles then. The distance between us prevents sending them to you... sadly. BUT, as you know the dimensions, perhaps you could offer Martell scales to suit... ? Hint, hint (he says opening wallet)


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## JayGee

It was so nice of Kipp to let us use his grinder - and give us a total grinding lesson. I only lost two fingerprints. Looking forward to the other (right) side. I'm thinking it might be nice to convex that side a little to complement the flat on the left. 

For the handle, I've got a nice little block that I bought ages ago from a mill when I was buying boards for furniture. Can't remember what it is at all! Anyone know? Its def a native Aus species. Will try and arrange it with yellow (sapwood) on the bottom of the handle. 





I figure this timber with no bolster because I'll be shaping just with files and rasps. Brass pins - or maybe Corby bolts? I'm not sure what the advantage would be of one over the other.


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## Dave Martell

Marek07 said:


> Much like Kipp said... what plans? Once the grinding gets done, I'll think about handles then. The distance between us prevents sending them to you... sadly. BUT, as you know the dimensions, perhaps you could offer Martell scales to suit... ? Hint, hint (he says opening wallet)



I think you're on your own on this one Marek. 






JayGee said:


> It was so nice of Kipp to let us use his grinder - and give us a total grinding lesson. I only lost two fingerprints. Looking forward to the other (right) side. I'm thinking it might be nice to convex that side a little to complement the flat on the left.
> 
> For the handle, I've got a nice little block that I bought ages ago from a mill when I was buying boards for furniture. Can't remember what it is at all! Anyone know? Its def a native Aus species. Will try and arrange it with yellow (sapwood) on the bottom of the handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I figure this timber with no bolster because I'll be shaping just with files and rasps. Brass pins - or maybe Corby bolts? I'm not sure what the advantage would be of one over the other.




Just remember that the tang is fully hardened. If you plan to use scales then you'll need more power than files and rasps can provide...they'll just skate on the steel.

I like the wood a lot and your plan to use the sapwood is exactly what I would do too.

I don't use Corby bolts anymore as they're a pain in the ass and way overkill for a kitchen knife handle. Pins and epoxy will hold scales in place just fine.


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## JayGee

Dave Martell said:


> Just remember that the tang is fully hardened. If you plan to use scales then you'll need more power than files and rasps can provide...they'll just skate on the steel.



Thanks for the tip. I was thinking a saw rasp for the timber, and diamond files for when working across the tang. Good quality diamond files can be up to 72HRC, I'd have thought they would be able to cut hardened metal. But they are expensive..

Is there any reason to use liners for a kitchen knife handle?


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## Nemo

Dave Martell said:


> Just remember that the tang is fully hardened. If you plan to use scales then you'll need more power than files and rasps can provide...they'll just skate on the steel.



Could you temper the tang without affecting the blade?


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## Butters

JayGee said:


> It was so nice of Kipp to let us use his grinder - and give us a total grinding lesson. I only lost two fingerprints. Looking forward to the other (right) side. I'm thinking it might be nice to convex that side a little to complement the flat on the left.
> 
> For the handle, I've got a nice little block that I bought ages ago from a mill when I was buying boards for furniture. Can't remember what it is at all! Anyone know? Its def a native Aus species. Will try and arrange it with yellow (sapwood) on the bottom of the handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I figure this timber with no bolster because I'll be shaping just with files and rasps. Brass pins - or maybe Corby bolts? I'm not sure what the advantage would be of one over the other.



Looks like Jarrah to me, with some curly figure too. It's a hard timber that polishes up nicely and darkens with age. Historically it was widely used for construction in Australia, but these days it's too valuable for that so it's mainly used in fine furniture. I've used the burl form for handles before and it's brilliant stuff.


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## Dave Martell

JayGee said:


> Thanks for the tip. I was thinking a saw rasp for the timber, and diamond files for when working across the tang. Good quality diamond files can be up to 72HRC, I'd have thought they would be able to cut hardened metal. But they are expensive..
> 
> Is there any reason to use liners for a kitchen knife handle?




I never tried diamond files so I can't comment there. I'd be skeptical though on their rate of wear. 

No reason to use liners at all. They're only used for aesthetics and/or hiding an poor fit.






Nemo said:


> Could you temper the tang without affecting the blade?



Yes you can. I'd drop the blade into a coffee can full of water, leaving just the tang exposed, and torch the tang.


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## JayGee

Butters said:


> Looks like Jarrah to me, with some curly figure too. It's a hard timber that polishes up nicely and darkens with age. Historically it was widely used for construction in Australia, but these days it's too valuable for that so it's mainly used in fine furniture. I've used the burl form for handles before and it's brilliant stuff.



It is definitely heavy enough to be Jarrah. Thanks for the ID! If it is Jarrah that makes using hand tools even less attractive. I've certainly broken saw teeth and drill bits in things like Jarrah and Spotty Gum before.



Dave Martell said:


> No reason to use liners at all. They're only used for aesthetics and/or hiding an poor fit.



Because the handle is using a heavy timber, perhaps that's a rationale for tapering the tang? Is this too complex a move for us? Do you fit scales to a tapered tang simply by planing the scales to shape? Or is there a trick to it (like liners)?


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## Dave Martell

JayGee said:


> Because the handle is using a heavy timber, perhaps that's a rationale for tapering the tang? Is this too complex a move for us? Do you fit scales to a tapered tang simply by planing the scales to shape? Or is there a trick to it (like liners)?




A few things come to mind....

Tapering a tang can be hard or easy, depends on how you approach it. If you can grind down the length of the platen/length of the tang then it's not so bad but across the platen/across the tang and it's sort of a mess waiting to happen experience. 

Mark the center line of the tang and go slow and keep looking at your progress and adjust as necessary. 

I drill the pin holes in scales while the scales are on the tang (held in position with clamps). I do this because it gives perfect alignment for a tang that's flat or tapered. I'm sure that this can be done doing one at a time but I have better luck with this way.


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## Dave Martell

Here something I wrote up a few years ago that should help....

http://japaneseknifesharpening.blogspot.com/2014/10/japanese-kitchen-knife-western-knife.html


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## Chicagohawkie

Very cool. Looking forward to progress!


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## Badgertooth

I may have ground away a little too much on the gyuto blank and doing my first integral was tricky so be gentle guys.


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## Marek07

Badgertooth said:


> I may have ground away a little too much on the gyuto blank and doing my first integral was tricky so be gentle guys.
> View attachment 37712


:laugh:
Thought you said something about being found bent over pavement to do your grinding. Only way you got to this profile was from a moving car!


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## tripleq

Liking this thread a lot. Can't wait to see what others come up with.


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## Dave Martell

I wanted to mention that you guys might find it easier with a handle on the knife during grinding. When I did full tangs I would temp mount scales using Corby bolts. Now that I do hidden tang only I shove an old Japanese wa handle on the tang. This really helps me in getting leverage/pressure/control.


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## Marek07

Dave Martell said:


> I wanted to mention that you guys might find it easier with a handle on the knife during grinding. When I did full tangs I would temp mount scales using Corby bolts. Now that I do hidden tang only I shove an old Japanese wa handle on the tang. This really helps me in getting leverage/pressure/control.


Thanks for the tip Dave. Will try to source some wood asap.


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## Dave Martell

Just know that the temp handle used for grinding can easily be screwed up. Use some junky wood for this.


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## cheflivengood

Here are some WIP doing this by hand. Atoma 140, CZAR sandpaper, strong ferric chloride etch for hollow behind edge. 

Phase One



Phase Two



Phase Three



Phase Four




VIDEO: [video]https://www.instagram.com/p/BcSfYLwHXo9/?taken-by=cheflivengood[/video]


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## Doug

The Shig of Chicago. Hand made without power tools. Impressive accomplishment!
Looks like a great cutter.


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## tripleq

Awesome. That your first band-aid on this project?


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## cheflivengood

Haha Shig of Chicago, It cuts pretty well, better and better after every session on the stones. 


Band Aid was actually just to brace my knuckles which were getting fatigued, no opps's yet!


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## tripleq

cheflivengood said:


> Band Aid was actually just to brace my knuckles which were getting fatigued, no opps's yet!



Good stuff. I've done a few projects like this by hand. Really not easy. You should be proud of that work.


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## merlijny2k

I don't get the problem with the hardened tangs. They came pre-drilled so what's the diamond file supposed to be for?


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## JayGee

merlijny2k said:


> I don't get the problem with the hardened tangs. They came pre-drilled so what's the diamond file supposed to be for?



So that you can file the tang and handle flush.


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## Miles

My current WIP. So far, an enjoyable and educational endeavor.


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## merlijny2k

JayGee said:


> So that you can file the tang and handle flush.



But you don't need to do that. You can just file the wood flush with the steel. You will get a little bit of damage to the file bit nothing much to worry about and then you polish them both together with sandpaper. No need to file the metal.


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## Dave Martell

Nice work Mike, I can't wait to see it come along.


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## JayGee

merlijny2k said:


> But you don't need to do that. You can just file the wood flush with the steel. You will get a little bit of damage to the file bit nothing much to worry about and then you polish them both together with sandpaper. No need to file the metal.



I use nice rasps that I'd rather not destroy on hard steel.


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## aboynamedsuita

valgard said:


> I've actually seen Tanner grinding a cleaver on his parking lot's pavement a few months ago lol.



Yes, reprofiling on the pavement was easy, thinning even the softer cladding to the extent I want isn't fun lol. I almost feel ashamed by the lack of progress/effort I'm made after seeming this thread and cheflivengood's work


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## Miles




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## milkbaby

Miles said:


>



Nice job, Miles! That is a good looking knife! :doublethumbsup:

What was your favorite part of making it?


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## Miles

Sorry I didn't have a chance to post a description. I ground it whisper thin. Dave gave me one directive before I started: You know what you like. Go make it. So that's what I did. I got a good bit of advice and encouragement from him and Trey from Comet Knives. I had the blade done before the Holidays but had to wait for the time to make a handle. I felt obligated to make my own handle for it and located some bocote and buffalo horn locally.


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## Miles

It wasn't a perfectly smooth process. I made a couple of errors of which I had expected at least a couple but I caught them in time and made adjustments. I can't say for sure what my favorite moment was but definitely when that handle was fitted and I put a couple of coats.of tung oil on the handle, it was pretty exciting.


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## panda

is there going to be a pass around? man i would love to grind my own blank, i bet it would be one hell of a cutter! hehe


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## Dave Martell

Your enthusiasm is contagious Mike!


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## Barmoley

Dave, you should offer some smaller blades too. I think 210s and 240s would sell, and would be a little less work to finish. Probably very little less but still...

Great work guys, I wish I had the skill to attempt something like this.


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## Marek07

Barmoley said:


> Dave, you should offer some smaller blades too. I think 210s and 240s would sell, and would be a little less work to finish. Probably very little less but still...
> 
> Great work guys, I wish I had the skill to attempt something like this.


Agree that smaller blades would be good to offer.

But... don't think you need skill to attempt this. Just enthusiasm and desire. Having guidance and tools helps too. Skills will develop.


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## cheflivengood

my progress. 220 vertical scratches. s ground with ferric chloride.


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## Dave Martell

Da-yam!


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## merlijny2k

Miles said:


> Sorry I didn't have a chance to post a description. I ground it whisper thin. Dave gave me one directive before I started: You know what you like. Go make it. So that's what I did. I got a good bit of advice and encouragement from him and Trey from Comet Knives. I had the blade done before the Holidays but had to wait for the time to make a handle. I felt obligated to make my own handle for it and located some bocote and buffalo horn locally.



Holy cow that knife is thin! Not even many Japanese smiths go that far down. I did it once by hand on a cheap softsteel knife just to see how far I could go. It's still in regular use for all sorts of stuff but mostly for cutting chicken breasts. Food release is pretty bad though. How is yours in cutting? Tried some thick carrots yet? Should be super on those.


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## Miles

So far it's really nice. Ive been testing it on various veg. Release is pretty good. Time will tell as to how well it holds up. But honestly, I expect it will take a couple sharpening sessions before it settles into it's true sweet spot. Since I'm the one using it, I'm not too worried about it. I don't think I'd make anything this thin for anyone else. The balance point is where you would want it to be and I'm happy with the handle. I modeled it on the handles on the Suisin IH series. It feels exactly as I had hoped it would.


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## panda

dat looks good livengood, tell us how it cuts!


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## merlijny2k

Miles said:


> So far it's really nice. Ive been testing it on various veg. Release is pretty good. Time will tell as to how well it holds up. But honestly, I expect it will take a couple sharpening sessions before it settles into it's true sweet spot. Since I'm the one using it, I'm not too worried about it. I don't think I'd make anything this thin for anyone else. The balance point is where you would want it to be and I'm happy with the handle. I modeled it on the handles on the Suisin IH series. It feels exactly as I had hoped it would.



Anything in particular you think contributes to its good food release?


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## milkbaby

cheflivengood said:


> my progress. 220 vertical scratches. s ground with ferric chloride.



Grind looks excellent, good job so far!


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## Miles

merlijny2k said:


> Anything in particular you think contributes to its good food release?


I left it pretty much full thickness at the spine, or fairly close to it and ran it down to very thin behind the edge. That's my guess.


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## Burl Source

JayGee said:


> For the handle, I've got a nice little block that I bought ages ago from a mill when I was buying boards for furniture. Can't remember what it is at all! Anyone know? Its def a native Aus species. Will try and arrange it with yellow (sapwood) on the bottom of the handle.



Looks like Tasmanian Blackwood to me.


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## JayGee

Burl Source said:


> Looks like Tasmanian Blackwood to me.



Thanks BS. I've made a few things and have some furniture of Tasmanian Blackwood - I actually always bring home blackwood and Huon pine when I go to Tassie - and this is much much heavier and denser... Also the colour may not be clear in the picture, but it is redder.


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## Burl Source

JayGee said:


> Thanks BS. I've made a few things and have some furniture of Tasmanian Blackwood - I actually always bring home blackwood and Huon pine when I go to Tassie - and this is much much heavier and denser... Also the colour may not be clear in the picture, but it is redder.


In that case it is probably one of the arid region acacias. You have a lot of really dense woods there in the acacia family. Probably one of the acacias in the mulga family. It looks like there will be some nice curly figure when you sand and finish the wood.


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## JayGee

Burl Source said:


> In that case it is probably one of the arid region acacias. You have a lot of really dense woods there in the acacia family. Probably one of the acacias in the mulga family. It looks like there will be some nice curly figure when you sand and finish the wood.



Exciting - can't wait to finish it and see how it comes out.


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## JayGee

Well - after several more afternoons in Kippington's garage - pretty much done - just oiling up now! This is actually not the block from the photos above, I cooked that one on Kipp's grinder. It was Mulga (as IDd by Burl Source) but fortunately I found a little more. This handle is made just with hand tools - a saw rasp and a diamond file:


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## Dave Martell

That looks great! :doublethumbsup:


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## JayGee

Thanks Dave - other tools I needed for the handle were a hacksaw (to cut the pins) and a 1.5mm chisel to cut the excess epoxy off the front of the handle. Will show more pics when it's all done.


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## Dave Martell

Are the pins brass?


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## JayGee

Yes brass pins. Got them from a model / hobbie shop. They only had imperial sizes, and I only have metric drill bits. Pins are 3.97mm, bit was 4mm. Close enough.


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## Dave Martell

Well the fit on the pins looks good from where I'm sitting.


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## milkbaby

That's looking good! Interested to see the complete finished knife.

For drilling holes, I always size up one step from the actual pin diameter with a fractional drill bit. For example, drilling for a 1/8" (0.125") diameter pin I'll use a #30 drill bit which is 0.1285". This is less likely to crack the wood scales.


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## JayGee

That's good advice - looks like I tool the right approach. Here's some pics of the knife nearly finished. The handle still has a few coats to go - 2 coats tung oil / orange oil + 2 coats pure tung oil + 2 coats tung oil / beeswax (with 24 hours and a steel wool in between). I also need to put an edge on. There are plenty of visible flaws, but I'm very happy with how it came out. A few gouges in the handle that I didn't chase out, the forge scale is still visible on the tang in some places, I marked the very front of the blade near the handle when sanding etc... but this is my second ever knife and first western handle so I'm super happy. We even did some fancy stuff like a subtle distal taper, tapered tang, and rounded spine. 

As mentioned, this would have been beyond impossible without the help of Kippington. Kipp has incredible knowledge and skill, is super generous, and is building up the gear for a mean workshop. It sounds like he's pretty much got a school of KKFrs over every weekend. Thanks a bunch. And sorry for the terrible pics - these are taken on my circa 2008 Nokia.


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## Dave Martell

Oh man I didn't realize that it was a suji you made, you get extra points for that! 

I was wondering, did you guys anneal the tang or work with it hard?


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## JayGee

Worked it hard!


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## Dave Martell

JayGee said:


> Worked it hard!




Ouch....I know that pain well.


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## milkbaby

Nice job! I want to say that knife looks awesome but to be honest, your phone camera really sucks. :running: :biggrin:

But seriously, great job on the knife but it deserves better pics. Hope you use it a bunch and enjoy it! :doublethumbsup:


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## JayGee

milkbaby said:


> Nice job! I want to say that knife looks awesome but to be honest, your phone camera really sucks. :running: :biggrin



I know - it's the worst. Here's one that at least had the benefit of daylight. I'll see if I can get some better pics eventually. It would be good to show the grind etc...


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## Marek07

Been a while twixt drinks, so to speak. Feels as though I'm reviving a dormant thread. The grinding was completed some time back - with considerable assistance from @Kippington. Thanks so much! 

Bought some AZ Desert Ironwood scales a while ago then finally decided I wasn't up to the task so I deferred to the wonderful workmanship of Cody Paul (aka @thegingerninja.abq on IG). Just returned from the US with the handled nakiri and I'm delighted with the result. Just a little bit more polishing and sharpening and it's ready for home duties.


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## Dave Martell

Marek, I was right away thinking, "wow, he's got some handle skillz".....LOL 

Nice work by you, Kip, & Cody. I hope you enjoy using it.


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