# Takefu knives?



## CiderBear (Jul 18, 2019)

Hi all, 

I don't tend to see knives from Takefu makers discussed a lot here (perhaps we have a slight Sanjo bias). However, I'm quite interested in hearing your opinions on knives from smiths like Anryu, both Kurosaki's, Shiro Kamo, etc. If you have used their knives, what do you think of them?


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## Bcos17 (Jul 18, 2019)

I have owned an Anryu hammered gyuto and a Kurosaki AS KU. Both were great performers and reasonably priced.


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## Elliot (Jul 18, 2019)

There is a bit of a narrative that these knives are of lower quality/craftsmanship. I am not sure I agree, though I will say my experience with them is limited. I have been told (by more than one source) that Takefu knife makers take a "path of least resistance" approach to knife making. Again, not necessarily my opinion. I just want to share all I have read, heard, been told, etc. Ultimately, I think one should make their own decisions on knives. These forums clearly provide A LOT, but I have purchased knives that are super highly regarded and not loved them. Personal taste is a far from irrelevant factor.

There is one knife I have currently that is from a Takefu maker. It may be the only one, so, again, others will provide more ammo. It's a Shibata Kotetsu petty knife and I think it is the shheeiiittt. It's R2 and a laser, so is a great combo for a petty knife IMO.

I had a Masakage Koishi Ko-Bunka at one point. I thought it was nice as well.


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## Jville (Jul 18, 2019)

The short answer is ive used/owned alll those knives and they are excellent. I cant go any further with the conversation until I get some coffee .


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## Barclid (Jul 18, 2019)

Also worth thinking about; most people on this forum say "Takefu" and really just mean the makers of "Takefu Knife Village" which excludes many knife-makers in the immediate area which is also "Takefu". It would be like talking about Sakai Knives but only meaning knives produced under the name of, say, Konosuke.


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## CiderBear (Jul 18, 2019)

@Elliot that's really interesting to know. I didn't realize the narrative existed in the first place! I know that /r/chefknives on reddit loves those knives (mostly Masakage), but then again I don't find Masakage appealing. I have read that the Takefu makers specialize on different aspects of the knife making process, unlike Sanjo makers who tend to do everything A-Z by themselves. If that's the case, I wonder if there's much of a difference between a gyuto from Makoto Kurosaki, a Yu Kurosaki, and Anryu, for example.


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## CiderBear (Jul 18, 2019)

Barclid said:


> Also worth thinking about; most people on this forum say "Takefu" and really just mean the makers of "Takefu Knife Village" which excludes many knife-makers in the immediate area which is also "Takefu". It would be like talking about Sakai Knives but only meaning knives produced under the name of, say, Konosuke.



That's true, when I think of Takefu I only think of guys in the Takefu Knife Village. What are some other notable makers not part of the cooperative?


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## Elliot (Jul 18, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> @Elliot that's really interesting to know. I didn't realize the narrative existed in the first place! I know that /r/chefknives on reddit loves those knives (mostly Masakage), but then again I don't find Masakage appealing. I have read that the Takefu makers specialize on different aspects of the knife making process, unlike Sanjo makers who tend to do everything A-Z by themselves. If that's the case, I wonder if there's much of a difference between a gyuto from Makoto Kurosaki, a Yu Kurosaki, and Anryu, for example.



Don't get me wrong. . . I am not one of those people who think only Shigefusa and Kato make good knives or that it has to be a "unicorn" or cost more than $500 to be good. I love the hell outta that Kotetsu petty.

Now, all that being said, if I wanted another semi-budget knife in the price range of most of those makers at the Takefu Village, I am more likely to buy a Wakui, a Tanaka or even a Munetoshi.


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## Barclid (Jul 18, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> That's true, when I think of Takefu I only think of guys in the Takefu Knife Village. What are some other notable makers not part of the cooperative?



Ryusen Hamono, Takamura Hamono, Takeshi Saji.


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## GorillaGrunt (Jul 18, 2019)

Takamuras kick a__, by all accounts so do Ryusens. Sanjo is trending right know like Sakai did some time ago, but I tried and rejected a bunch of Sakai lasers in favor of the Shibata Kashima. The one Makoto I’ve handled was an excellent knife — also note that personally, I could list off a bunch of Sanjo or Sakai makers but didn’t even have an association in my mind between the Kurosakis, Takamura, etc. and their location in Takefu.


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## ojisan (Jul 18, 2019)

They are not bad at all.

What's interesting is that Sanjo is not so popular in the Japanese market. Shigefusa is an exception and Hinoura-san is known well too. But Mazaki-san is not known at all. Takefu has more presence in the Japanese market IMO.

I love my Takamura and Fujishita.


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## JoBone (Jul 18, 2019)

I think the collective nature of many of the craftsman in that area creates an atmosphere where the blacksmiths and sharpeners can produce better knives at a lower cost than others knives at the same budget. Being a collective, they tend to learn from each other, so the better features rise up and become the norm. In a more isolated environment, the learning process is not as conducive for rapid expansion and evolution.

I also think that the popularity and awesomeness of Katos and Shigefusas add value and prestige to the sites that sell them and the regions that produce them. This value-add may or may not carry over to the actual performance of those other brands.

In addition to my Shigs (don’t have a Kato yet), I really love my Anryus and Kurosakis as much or more than other my knives of similar budget.

Okay, knives like taste-buds,are personal and we all have our preferences that may or may not be shared with others.


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## bahamaroot (Jul 18, 2019)

Elliot said:


> There is a bit of a narrative that these knives are of lower quality/craftsmanship...


I can't say that I'm familiar with or ever got the impression of this narrative. There is definitely a "group" around here that are not fans of knives from this region but that seems to be more personal preference and nothing to do with quality.
I personally own a few and have used several other Takefu knives and they were all very good knives for their price points. Have a couple in my sights to get at some point.


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## CiderBear (Jul 18, 2019)

What are some notable characteristics of gyutos from Takefu village? I notice that they have many AS options, and the choil looks really rounded, perhaps a bit sharp, but again I'm just basing this on internet photos


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## inferno (Jul 18, 2019)

I dont think you can draw any conclusions just a because a knife was made in a certain region imo. 

I have 4 kurosaki knives. that i all handpicked in a store. and they are all very nice. 
He makes them differently now and i dont like the new design. 

I also have 2 from sanjo, hinouras, AS and White 2. they are neither better nor worse than the kurosakis.


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## Nemo (Jul 18, 2019)

Nothin' wrong with Tafeku knives. I have experience with Ryusen, Shiro Kamo and Kurosaki. All perform well, even if quite different from Sanjo knives.


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## Michi (Jul 18, 2019)

I have two Takeshi Saji rainbow Damascus (Bunka and Nakiri), and just sold a Kurosaki Fujin VG10 Damascus Santoku. All very good knives, IMO. The Kurosaki is quite thin behind the edge; not quite a laser, but definitely goes through hard stuff very cleanly.


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## osakajoe (Jul 18, 2019)

Elliot said:


> There is one knife I have currently that is from a Takefu maker. It may be the only one, so, again, others will provide more ammo. It's a Shibata Kotetsu petty knife and I think it is the shheeiiittt. It's R2 and a laser, so is a great combo for a petty knife IMO.
> 
> I had a Masakage Koishi Ko-Bunka at one point. I thought it was nice as well.



Shibata is not out of Takefu....last time I checked I think he’s in Hiroshima or somewhere near there. 

He’s a basic re-sharpener turned knife retailer. He and another guy (who dropped out awhile back) formed the Masakage to help promote his brand and those craftsman he brought into the group. This also allows him to write a bunch of stuff about himself without looking like it was him lol

I’m pretty sure it’s a great knife as it looks just like my R2 laser out of Tosa (Kochi) which is a huge OEM area. But again not a Takefu knife.


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## Xenif (Jul 18, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> @Elliot that's really interesting to know. I didn't realize the narrative existed in the first place! I know that /r/chefknives on reddit loves those knives (mostly Masakage), but then again I don't find Masakage appealing. I have read that the Takefu makers specialize on different aspects of the knife making process, unlike Sanjo makers who tend to do everything A-Z by themselves. If that's the case, I wonder if there's much of a difference between a gyuto from Makoto Kurosaki, a Yu Kurosaki, and Anryu, for example.


I just stumbled onto /r the other day, lets just say the level of knife-fu here at KKF is on a vastly different dimension, and thus, have different pov/taste in knives. I do agree that KKF is very pro-sanjo though.


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## Cyrilix (Jul 18, 2019)

The only Takefu knife I have is a Takamura. Part of their charm is that they focus exclusively on stainless steel, so I expect them to have a whole lot of expertise in stainless steel. The other guys have made a bit of everything, so intuitively, I figure that Takamura is going to have a lot more depth when it comes to the best way to do stainless, particularly R2.


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## ojisan (Jul 18, 2019)

Barclid said:


> Ryusen Hamono, Takamura Hamono, Takeshi Saji.



Saji-san is a member of the village?


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## Barclid (Jul 18, 2019)

ojisan said:


> Saji-san is a member of the village?



http://info.pref.fukui.lg.jp/tisan/monosato/en/pdf/uchihamono.pdf

Edit: You're right. I was just going based on memory of physical location.


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## Brian Weekley (Jul 19, 2019)

I think JoBone really said it when he wrote “Okay, knives like taste-buds,are personal and we all have our preferences that may or may not be shared with others.”

I own knives from most of the Takefu Village Knife Smiths as well as many others. My understanding of the Takefu Knife Village is that it was established by masters to draw novices into the art ... I hesitate to call it a “trade”. Some of the novices, Kurosaki and others are well on their way to being masters in their own right. I like Anryu’s knives a lot. I own most of his knives and can’t help but observe that they are vastly better than the knives used in 99.5% on North American and European households today. Think of that! If you can own, maintain and use an Anryu knife you are superior to 99.99999999% of every billionaire in the world today.

I tend not to prefer knives that I don’t use. Unicorns have little appeal to me. I like reactive blades. There probably isn’t a single Hollywood “A lister” who knows what a reactive blade is much less how to care for it! ... sorry Brad ... sorry Leonardo ... you suck!

A book was published by Kevin Kent this year that deals mostly with Takefu Knife Village smiths. It’s a hard cover sold by Amazon. I’ll include a pic. 

There is a chain of Japanese Knife Stores in Canada owned by him called Knifewear. They mostly stock knives from Takefu smiths. Credit to Knifewear but when dealing with them ymmv. They once suggested that I should celebrate buying a Kurosaki sujihiki by using it to make tacos .... huuuuuh? They also said that they didn’t handle Murray Carters knives because “he didn’t make Japanese knives” double .... huuuuuh?


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## JoBone (Jul 19, 2019)

osakajoe said:


> Shibata is not out of Takefu....last time I checked I think he’s in Hiroshima or somewhere near there.
> 
> .



From what I understand, most Shibata’s knives are smithed by Ikeda in Takefu, who apprenticed under Anryu.


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## StephenYu (Jul 19, 2019)

I have had a two Kurosaki, a Masakage Shimo and an AS, I also currently own a Takamura Hana and a KnS Yugumo. 

Personally, there are two things I don’t like about Takefu. First is that most of their blades are made from prelaminated billets. Doesn’t make it bad, just feeling it lacks a little “craftsmanship”.
Second thing is the heat treatment is not optimal. For instance the AS from Takefu village is around 62 hrc while the TF Denka is around 66 hrc. That’s why they are priced so differently.

Many forum members here also enjoy a workhorse. While most knives from Takefu are light and nimble.

But I still use my Yugumo regularly, the handle feels amazing


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## osakajoe (Jul 19, 2019)

JoBone said:


> From what I understand, most Shibata’s knives are smithed by Ikeda in Takefu, who apprenticed under Anryu.



Nope.

His main knives are the Kotetsu. Definitely not. Even if other knives are smithed by him, He doesn’t sharpen them. He’s not an actual grinding craftsman



StephenYu said:


> First is that most of their blades are made from prelaminated billets. Doesn’t make it bad, just feeling it lacks a little “craftsmanship”.
> Second thing is the heat treatment is not optimal. For instance the AS from Takefu village is around 62 hrc while the TF Denka is around 66 hrc. That’s why they are priced so



Most knives forged in Japan (excluding a lot of single bevels from Sakai) are forged from billets. For the sake of this thread 95% of Takefu is. Why you hate it is why I prefer a cab vs you prefer a Pinot.

I’ll agree with Takefu and their heat treatment of powder steel.


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## CiderBear (Jul 19, 2019)

Really good discussions so far, thank you everyone. 

Sanjo knives tend to have dramatic distal tapers. Are there similar characteristics of Takefu knives (or the region in general)?


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## Brian Weekley (Jul 19, 2019)

I couldn’t agree more with Stephen. It’s all part of the process of moving from aspirant to student to novice to journeyman to master. Many makers at differing skills and abilities with a common thread of learning and moving forward. I too am not a fan of prelaminated blades. It seems to me that it moves the blades closer to factory manufactured blades. Have a close look at a Myabi Black Knife. 131 layers, 66-67 HRC, immaculate finishing, wonderful to use and absolutely no character. You could buy a thousand Black blades all identically the same. Just like a Swiss Army knife. It seems to me that forge welding a blade guarantees that every knife made is different. Dripping with character. Much easier to buy a prelaminated blank, trace a pattern and start from there. Still not easy ... but easier. The trend to stainless knives seems to encourage this prelaminated trend. According to Murray Carter it takes a million dollars of equipment to laminate stainless steel to a hard carbon core. All makers can be excused from making such an investment. If the public demands stainless knives, makers will make stainless and probably happily bid goodbye to forge welding blades. Fully reactive blades will probably slowly disappear along with the forge welding skills to make them. The point ... if it’s important to you, keep buying fully reactive blades. If you do the novices at Takefu Village will learn to forge weld blades.


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## Barclid (Jul 19, 2019)

osakajoe said:


> Nope.
> 
> His main knives are the Kotetsu. Definitely not. Even if other knives are smithed by him, He doesn’t sharpen them. He’s not an actual grinding craftsman
> 
> ...



Who are you quoting on the powder steel? Because the quote in your post is referencing Aogami Super.


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## WPerry (Jul 19, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> Much easier to buy a prelaminated blank, trace a pattern and start from there.



This makes it sound as if they're simply cutting and grinding; I was under the impression that prelam blanks were more like bars - thick, short and and narrow - that then see considerable hammer forging before having a profile traced and cut.


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## StephenYu (Jul 19, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> Really good discussions so far, thank you everyone.
> 
> Sanjo knives tend to have dramatic distal tapers. Are there similar characteristics of Takefu knives (or the region in general)?



I think they still have good distal tapers, just not as dramatic as Sanjo ones because they are not as thick at the spine.


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## Brian Weekley (Jul 19, 2019)

I could be wrong but the videos I recall seeing use a blank, pattern, scribe and band saw with a metal blade. Then again I’m old enough that I’m prone to forget the beginning of a sentence before I get to the end of the sentence .... AND ... I watch way too many knife videos!


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## Barclid (Jul 19, 2019)

WPerry said:


> This makes it sound as if they're simply cutting and grinding; I was under the impression that prelam blanks were more like bars - thick, short and and narrow - that then see considerable hammer forging before having a profile traced and cut.



You could buy thinner pre-laminated stock, stamp a blade shape and grind or you could buy thicker pre-laminated stock, forge, stamp and grind, or *not* stamp and simply forge to shape and grind or really anything you want. People on this forum by and large have a tendency towards romanticism.


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## Xenif (Jul 19, 2019)

StephenYu said:


> I have had a two Kurosaki, a Masakage Shimo and an AS, I also currently own a Takamura Hana and a KnS Yugumo.
> 
> Personally, there are two things I don’t like about Takefu. First is that most of their blades are made from prelaminated billets. Doesn’t make it bad, just feeling it lacks a little “craftsmanship”.
> Second thing is the heat treatment is not optimal. For instance the AS from Takefu village is around 62 hrc while the TF Denka is around 66 hrc. That’s why they are priced so differently.
> ...


I can't say I agree with observations on the Takefu heat treat. Harder dosen't always mean better or more expensive, if AS was done at 66-67 hrc and used on some of these thin takefu grinds I can foresee insane chipping.

What I agree to is that KKFers seem to, in general, have a preference towards workhhorsey knives with good food release. I believe there was a time where lasers ruled on here (before my time here).


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## StephenYu (Jul 19, 2019)

Xenif said:


> I can't say I agree with observations on the Takefu heat treat. Harder dosen't always mean better or more expensive, if AS was done at 66-67 hrc and used on some of these thin takefu grinds I can foresee insane chipping.
> 
> What I agree to is that KKFers seem to, in general, have a preference towards workhhorsey knives with good food release. I believe there was a time where lasers ruled on here (before my time here).



I agree that harder doesn’t always mean better, but harder ones are usually more expensive (when comparing the same steel) because the failure rate is much higher when blacksmith try to push the limit. 

I remember Sukenari once offered AS in 66/67 hrc but they decides to lower it because the failure rate is too high. 

But like you said, most knives Takefu village are well balanced and designed in terms of heat treatment, grind, distal taper, f&f...that’s also why they are so popular in both local and overseas markets.

It’s just my personal preference that rather than choosing a knife that scored 7 out of 10 in all aspects I will choose one that has 9 out of 10 in heat treat and accepting 4 out of 10 in f&f.


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## Barclid (Jul 19, 2019)

StephenYu said:


> I agree that harder doesn’t always mean better, but harder ones are usually more expensive (when comparing the same steel) because the failure rate is much higher when blacksmith try to push the limit.
> 
> I remember Sukenari once offered AS in 66/67 hrc but they decides to lower it because the failure rate is too high.
> 
> ...



Why are you assigning numerical scores out of 10 to a heat treatment based solely on the achieved hardness? That's so superficial it's mind blowing. As-quenched, you can easily get knives that hard and simply not temper them. Boom, 66-67 HRc. It's going to be brittle, though.


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## StephenYu (Jul 19, 2019)

Barclid said:


> Why are you assigning numerical scores out of 10 to a heat treatment based solely on the achieved hardness? That's so superficial it's mind blowing. As-quenched, you can easily get knives that hard and simply not temper them. Boom, 66-67 HRc. It's going to be brittle, though.



Sorry if you find it offensive. 

I have seen people praising about Toyama/Watanabe’s blue steel, Hinoura’s white steel, etc. but I don’t think I have seen people praising about heat treatment of Takefu knife village here. I have seen good comments about Masakage Koishi, but that’s pretty much it. So the 7 out of 10 is not sorely based on hrc, but from a collective of things that I read here or from other sources.


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## Barclid (Jul 19, 2019)

StephenYu said:


> Sorry if you find it offensive.
> 
> I have seen people praising about Toyama/Watanabe’s blue steel, Hinoura’s white steel, etc. but I don’t think I have seen people praising about heat treatment of Takefu knife village here. I have seen good comments about Masakage Koishi, but that’s pretty much it. So the 7 out of 10 is not sorely based on hrc, but from a collective of things that I read here or from other sources.



I'm not offended. You wrote your post with HRc as the sole reference to determining HT quality, which I found strange. What's even stranger is that you now seem to be assigning a numerical value to HT based on the collective opinion of other forum members and not your own personal experience. Just... why bother commenting on it if you don't have personal experience? Saying, in general, that you would prefer a knife with a "better" heat treatment is fine, but I'm questioning what information you're using to determine what is better and why and to what degree. So far I've seen you mention HRc and others' praise.


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## Paraffin (Jul 19, 2019)

My only reference for a "Takefu knife" is a 180mm nakiri by Yu Kurosaki in R2 steel, bought a couple of years ago. It's very nice; not quite a laser but definitely in the thin category. Excellent fit and finish. It's now one of my wife's main knives, only because I've decided on carbon steel for all my main ones, mainly Yoshikazu Ikeda because I like the grind. If I wanted another stainless PM knife I'd consider another Kurosaki.


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## StephenYu (Jul 19, 2019)

Barclid said:


> I'm not offended. You wrote your post with HRc as the sole reference to determining HT quality, which I found strange. What's even stranger is that you now seem to be assigning a numerical value to HT based on the collective opinion of other forum members and not your own personal experience. Just... why bother commenting on it if you don't have personal experience? Saying, in general, that you would prefer a knife with a "better" heat treatment is fine, but I'm questioning what information you're using to determine what is better and why and to what degree. So far I've seen you mention HRc and others' praise.



I think I make it pretty clear I have had 2 knives from Kurosaki-san and still have an Kugumo forged by Kato-san at the Takefu knife village. 
I didn’t use the Shimo but for the AS I used it for about half a year. I had to say it is a solid and well balanced knife, but I wasn’t blew away by it. And it does require me to sharpen more often than I expect. Maybe you can start judging my sharpening skills now  

Again I am not sure why I can’t have my own preference and rating on knives.


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## JoBone (Jul 19, 2019)

Here’s a good video of Anryu. Listen to his words and you get a good understanding of the blacksmiths there.


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## -toa- (Jul 19, 2019)

When i joined the forum i was a bit puzzled to learn that they are not mentioned so often here. But i guess it makes sense.

I´ve tried a lot of the masakage lines (kato: yuki, koishi, kanehiro, anryu; hammered, shibata; r2 lasers, kurosaki: shimo, etc.), and have never been disappointed - not even after trying more expensive knives. In a general sense they are good gateway knives since they are easily available, have a large selection and not too expensive. Many of them are nicely finished, have a quite good factory edge and are stainless clad (shimo one exception). There are also some underrated gems there.

As such they can cover the daily needs of many and also serve as a reference point to other knife makers. 

They have their trade-offs as do other knives. Sure there are other that have more character, more elaborate grinds, better value, finish etc. But this is to be expected.


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## Barclid (Jul 19, 2019)

StephenYu said:


> I think I make it pretty clear I have had 2 knives from Kurosaki-san and still have an Kugumo forged by Kato-san at the Takefu knife village.
> I didn’t use the Shimo but for the AS I used it for about half a year. I had to say it is a solid and well balanced knife, but I wasn’t blew away by it. And it does require me to sharpen more often than I expect. Maybe you can start judging my sharpening skills now
> 
> Again I am not sure why I can’t have my own preference and rating on knives.



If you'll notice, I didn't take exception to you rating knives subjectively. What I thought was weird was that you were giving numerical values to "heat treat" going so far as to insinuate one knife-maker would be doing a "7/10" heat treat versus "9/10" heat treat and I was questioning what your criteria were to be determining the quality of a heat treatment and if it were HRc largely that I don't understand your logic. If, subjectively, you like one maker's AS over another's... Who am I to disagree? What I was pointing out was the phrasing. If you'd just said "I like my Denka in AS better than my Kurosaki/Kato because I feel I don't have to sharpen it as often." then, whatever. I don't believe you can adequately provide a numerical rating on the quality of a heat treatment in such a way, though.


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## bahamaroot (Jul 19, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> I could be wrong but the videos I recall seeing use a blank, pattern, scribe and band saw with a metal blade. Then again I’m old enough that I’m prone to forget the beginning of a sentence before I get to the end of the sentence .... AND ... I watch way too many knife videos!


I doubt that was a video of a japanese smith. I have seen similar videos of other makers to cut blanks with a bandsaw that use stock removal to make knives but not a master Japanese smith.


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## JoBone (Jul 19, 2019)

My knife appreciation matches my beer appreciation.

I grew up drinking Old Milwaukee, Wiedemanns and Miller. At the time, I thought a Michelob was top of the line. Move on to Bass, Guinness, Samual Adams... before I knew it, it’s only hand crafted locally brewed organic...

Then some hot summer day comes along, I pop open a PBR and think ‘Damn, that’s good’.


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## HRC_64 (Jul 19, 2019)

The only really negative thing I think of with Takefu is some
of the smiths used to hammer mulitple blanks at a time, 
and I think KKF crowd is really a bit more biased toward
to "lone man on the mountain" mythology and anything
not single-purpose, single piece build seem to be less popular.

I think there are videos and mabye Jon Broida mentioned this once?
There is a reason they did it like heat retention or something,
rather than pure mass-production, IIRC but it definitiely was
a sort of more "modern" not classical approach.


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## StephenYu (Jul 20, 2019)

Barclid said:


> If you'll notice, I didn't take exception to you rating knives subjectively. What I thought was weird was that you were giving numerical values to "heat treat" going so far as to insinuate one knife-maker would be doing a "7/10" heat treat versus "9/10" heat treat and I was questioning what your criteria were to be determining the quality of a heat treatment and if it were HRc largely that I don't understand your logic. If, subjectively, you like one maker's AS over another's... Who am I to disagree? What I was pointing out was the phrasing. If you'd just said "I like my Denka in AS better than my Kurosaki/Kato because I feel I don't have to sharpen it as often." then, whatever. I don't believe you can adequately provide a numerical rating on the quality of a heat treatment in such a way, though.



It is really strange that you are questioning my phrasing while you are the one who focus attention on one phrase without regard to the meaning of the whole piece. I didn’t say that hrc is the only indicator to heat treatment. When you accused me “for commenting on knives that I don’t have experience with” it shows that you are making a bunch of false assumptions.

My numerical analogy can be interpreted as “I personally would prefer a knife which has excellent heat treatment even it has f&f issue than an all-round knife.” But you just keep focusing on the numerical part it’s so superficial it’s mind blowing. 

AS is metallurgically a harder steel and therefore 62 hrc is a relatively lower hardness when comparing with most other AS knives in the market. Disagree all you want but a lot of knife makers did say that hrc is a very important indicator to heat treatment. Of course I can take other indicators such as reactivity, method of tempering, chipping issues, edge retention, ease of sharpening, etc into account. But I just think that stating the hrc is much lower than industry average is a strong enough point. 

I probably should have indicated “per my experience with this particular sample I had I feel like the treatment isn’t optimal, but maybe yours will be perfect!”


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## WPerry (Jul 20, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> The only really negative thing I think of with Takefu is some
> of the smiths used to hammer mulitple blanks at a time,
> and I think KKF crowd is really a bit more biased toward
> to "lone man on the mountain" mythology and anything
> ...



There are videos of Yu Kurosaki doing this and, yeah, the reason given is heat retention and being able to work a little longer.


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## Barclid (Jul 20, 2019)

StephenYu said:


> It is really strange that you are questioning my phrasing while you are the one who focus attention on one phrase without regard to the meaning of the whole piece. I didn’t say that hrc is the only indicator to heat treatment. When you accused me “for commenting on knives that I don’t have experience with” it shows that you are making a bunch of false assumptions.
> 
> My numerical analogy can be interpreted as “I personally would prefer a knife which has excellent heat treatment even it has f&f issue than an all-round knife.” But you just keep focusing on the numerical part it’s so superficial it’s mind blowing.
> 
> ...


Where are you pulling the number 62 for those Takefu knives in AS?


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## Elliot (Jul 20, 2019)

JoBone said:


> My knife appreciation matches my beer appreciation.
> 
> I grew up drinking Old Milwaukee, Wiedemanns and Miller. At the time, I thought a Michelob was top of the line. Move on to Bass, Guinness, Samual Adams... before I knew it, it’s only hand crafted locally brewed organic...
> 
> Then some hot summer day comes along, I pop open a PBR and think ‘Damn, that’s good’.



This is the big takeaway post!

Absolutely nothing “wrong” with those Takefu knives. But, I’d agree, they’re the comfortable American mass-market lager. For the VAST majority of cooks, home or professional, it’s a massive upgrade and an eye opener. 

I do think it’s important to remember the KKF audience is a really unique little sub-culture, and that’s why the big deviation. A lot of us own knives that are worth more than $1k — often times several. 

Knowing the audience is crucial. 

To many of us, a good “beater” is double or triple the price of the finest knife a home cook will ever have. And, to my understanding, though I am not a professional chef, the pro ranks are not that different in this regard.


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## riba (Jul 20, 2019)

If I don't pay (too much) for it, I prefer the maker of my knives to suffer as much as possible.


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## zizirex (Jul 20, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I don't tend to see knives from Takefu makers discussed a lot here (perhaps we have a slight Sanjo bias). However, I'm quite interested in hearing your opinions on knives from smiths like Anryu, both Kurosaki's, Shiro Kamo, etc. If you have used their knives, what do you think of them?



Because this forums is bias to the Sanjo and Unicorn Sakai stuff.. where tall knife and hefty knife is a choice. Takefu knife is cheaper because in Japan their not as popular as Sakai or Sanjo, but it doesn’t mean their bad. Takamura for example is my perfect knife... and Shibata AS, and I have more desired to buy them rather than Shig or Kato. But everyone have a different taste right?


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## HRC_64 (Jul 20, 2019)

Takamura makes some very well respected stuff as does Ryusen
Nodody I think would look down on top-of-the-line takamura,
and if anyone wants to throw theirs away I'll take it...


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## zizirex (Jul 20, 2019)

Another thing with Takefu is they use their Steel from Takefu Steel, not Hitachi. That’s why their HRC is slightly different. SG2 and VG10 is their main selling point, that’s why most of the blacksmith use those. Their AS is V-Toku 1 and their Blue 2 is V-Toku 2. Chromax or V Silver 1 or SKD12 is also use by Yoshikane, Takamura and Masashi


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## ojisan (Jul 20, 2019)

zizirex said:


> Takefu knife is cheaper because in Japan their not as popular as Sakai or Sanjo



I'm curious the reason you thought this.

My gut feeling is that Tskefu has more "presence" than Sanjo there, and I think the difference of prices is coming from the markets where each maker are fighting (mass/home vs highend/pro). Tadafusa for example is an affordable brand now aiming the mass market in Ssnjo.


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## CiderBear (Jul 20, 2019)

Ohhh, interesting info @zizirex. Thank you for sharing! Theoretically speaking, would the Takefu steel and its Hitachi equivalent be the same on paper, composition-wise?


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## RDalman (Jul 20, 2019)

zizirex said:


> That’s why their HRC is slightly different.



No, hardness is mostly/usually a choice by the maker. Most knife steels can reach and be used at 65 (and many even higher) if one would want to heat treat them to that.


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## ojisan (Jul 20, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> Ohhh, interesting info @zizirex. Thank you for sharing! Theoretically speaking, would the Takefu steel and its Hitachi equivalent be the same on paper, composition-wise?


 
No, the specs are different. Some of them are similar.

Takefu steel was established to provide (p re laminated) steels to takefu makers.
Takefu makers get discount by making mass purchasing as a group.


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## zizirex (Jul 20, 2019)

ojisan said:


> I'm curious the reason you thought this.
> 
> My gut feeling is that Tskefu has more "presence" than Sanjo there, and I think the difference of prices is coming from the markets where each maker are fighting (mass/home vs highend/pro). Tadafusa for example is an affordable brand now aiming the mass market in Ssnjo.



Or should I say, it used to be. I heard The Japanese Government put money on Takefu Knife Village for popular Destination For tourism. Right now, I think they are getting more popular than how they used to be.


RDalman said:


> No, hardness is mostly/usually a choice by the maker. Most knife steels can reach and be used at 65 (and many even higher) if one would want to heat treat them to that.



Yes, but the Takefu AS have less carbon than Hitachi counterparts and I think HRC number for Japanese knife should be take with grain of salt. Maybe they could make it harder but they know how the market will use their knife.


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## drsmp (Jul 20, 2019)

I really like my Kurosaki and Anryu Knives. I have SRS13, R2 , VG10, AS and B2 cores. I like the different hammered patterns, and they all cut well. For a home cook they hold their edges forever. Even after adding a custom handle (thanks Joe!) I’m only in the $300-350 range for a 210 Gyuto. I splurged on the turquoise Fujin K-tip Gyuto at $425.


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## ChefShramrock (Jul 20, 2019)

Most of mine are from Takefu. I love the gyuto profile. Nice long flat spot & thin drop tip. Plus, the aesthetics are really varied & nice.


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## ojisan (Jul 20, 2019)

Thanks! I'm new to this world and know It's history only on papers. That's great to know this kind of observation by others.



zizirex said:


> Or should I say, it used to be. I heard The Japanese Government put money on Takefu Knife Village for popular Destination For tourism. Right now, I think they are getting more popular than how they used to be.
> 
> 
> Yes, but the Takefu AS have less carbon than Hitachi counterparts and I think HRC number for Japanese knife should be take with grain of salt. Maybe they could make it harder but they know how the market will use their knife.


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## drsmp (Jul 20, 2019)

Here’s a pretty cool video with info on Takefu
https://knifewear.com/blogs/news/sp...ubmV0IiwgImtsX2NvbXBhbnlfaWQiOiAiTDQ2TWRTIn0=


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## Dan P. (Jul 21, 2019)

zizirex said:


> Another thing with Takefu is they use their Steel from Takefu Steel, not Hitachi. That’s why their HRC is slightly different. SG2 and VG10 is their main selling point, that’s why most of the blacksmith use those. Their AS is V-Toku 1 and their Blue 2 is V-Toku 2. Chromax or V Silver 1 or SKD12 is also use by Yoshikane, Takamura and Masashi



The Aogami Super products I've had from Takefu used Hitachi AS. To my knowledge Takefu Special Steel Co. are producers of laminates and stockholders rather than steel producers, per se.


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## zizirex (Jul 21, 2019)

Dan P. said:


> The Aogami Super products I've had from Takefu used Hitachi AS. To my knowledge Takefu Special Steel Co. are producers of laminates and stockholders rather than steel producers, per se.



They do laminates, but like VG series and SG2 are proprietary from Takefu, then I ask Kevin of Knifewear who always go to Takefu and hang around with the blacksmiths, he said that they use the most similar steel of Hitachi that is made from Takefu Steel. I also ask one of the vendor here he said that, not only Takefu knives. The slightly cheaper AS knife are usually not made using Hitachi stuff due to availability or minimum order.


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## CiderBear (Jul 21, 2019)

Thanks so much for the info @zizirex.


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## Dan P. (Jul 21, 2019)

zizirex said:


> They do laminates, but like VG series and SG2 are proprietary from Takefu, then I ask Kevin of Knifewear who always go to Takefu and hang around with the blacksmiths, he said that they use the most similar steel of Hitachi that is made from Takefu Steel. I also ask one of the vendor here he said that, not only Takefu knives. The slightly cheaper AS knife are usually not made using Hitachi stuff due to availability or minimum order.



Well, unless it is information coming directly from Takefu Special Steel Co., I guess it is hearsay. 
Buuuut.... My version of hearsay comes directly and explicitly from the distributor of Takefu steel in my country, and that is that the vtoku is a proprietary steel very similar to the Hitachi Aogami range that Takefu have made by steel producers, except for the AS, which they get direct from Hitachi. 
It's normal that a company like Takefu would source different steels from different primary producers.


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## M1k3 (Jul 21, 2019)

zizirex said:


> They do laminates, but like VG series and SG2 are proprietary from Takefu, then I ask Kevin of Knifewear who always go to Takefu and hang around with the blacksmiths, he said that they use the most similar steel of Hitachi that is made from Takefu Steel. I also ask one of the vendor here he said that, not only Takefu knives. The slightly cheaper AS knife are usually not made using Hitachi stuff due to availability or minimum order.



Why would a Smith or retailer sell a knife as being made from AS if it's not? Why not what it is? Or 'nihonku' or whatever generic label?


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## ACHiPo (Jul 21, 2019)

I was told the knife they gave me after my sharpening class at Takefu was Hitachi carbon steel sandwiched in stainless. It was made from a blank, not forged on site.


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## Dan P. (Jul 21, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> Why would a Smith or retailer sell a knife as being made from AS if it's not? Why not what it is? Or 'nihonku' or whatever generic label?



I think there is some confusing of Takefu the municipality with Takefu Knife Village (whether there are knives made in Takefu the town that are not coming out of the Knife Village I don't know) with Takefu Special Steel Co.
There seems to be further confusion in the understanding of generic and proprietary specifications and how steel is sorted amongst those various categories.

Not that that answers your question, but I think the answer is probably that there was a misunderstanding somewhere, i.e. no case to answer.


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## ojisan (Jul 21, 2019)

I once heard some rumors that some of cheap knives sold with names like "aoko" 青鋼 or "shiroko" 白鋼 are actually made of those similar (and cheaper) steels from Takefu steel. Aogami and Shirigsmi are registered trademark of Hitachi so they cannot use these names for knives made of different steels. As most people only know Aogami and Shirogami, and Takefu steels are much much minor, using names sound like Hitachi steels could be a trick to give good impression.

However I have no clue to confirm this rumor and there are surely good resellers who use those terms even when Hitachi steels are used. I just remember this rumor...


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## ojisan (Jul 21, 2019)

zizirex said:


> They do laminates, but like VG series and SG2 are proprietary from Takefu, then I ask Kevin of Knifewear who always go to Takefu and hang around with the blacksmiths, he said that they use the most similar steel of Hitachi that is made from Takefu Steel. I also ask one of the vendor here he said that, not only Takefu knives. The slightly cheaper AS knife are usually not made using Hitachi stuff due to availability or minimum order.



SG2 is R2 from kobelco with lamination?


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## Dan P. (Jul 21, 2019)

ojisan said:


> ...and Takefu steels are much much minor...



In what way??


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## ojisan (Jul 21, 2019)

Dan P. said:


> In what way??



Sorry this is about carbon steels. VG series have presence of course.


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## zizirex (Jul 21, 2019)

ojisan said:


> SG2 is R2 from kobelco with lamination?


Maybe, it's just R2 is Kobelco trademark name and SG2 is Takefu's name... maybe same steel/composition.



Dan P. said:


> Well, unless it is information coming directly from Takefu Special Steel Co., I guess it is hearsay.
> Buuuut.... My version of hearsay comes directly and explicitly from the distributor of Takefu steel in my country, and that is that the vtoku is a proprietary steel very similar to the Hitachi Aogami range that Takefu have made by steel producers, except for the AS, which they get direct from Hitachi.
> It's normal that a company like Takefu would source different steels from different primary producers.



True, I also think Takefu steel also made lamination of SRS15/13 and GinSanko...which is made by other makers.


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## ojisan (Jul 21, 2019)

This article is very informative on the history of Takefu knife/tools industry. Try Google translate if you are interested in.
http://www.i-repository.net/contents/outemon/ir/102/102120311.pdf

And also this one. https://aue.repo.nii.ac.jp/?action=...m_id=6937&item_no=1&attribute_id=15&file_no=1


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## Dan P. (Jul 22, 2019)

ojisan said:


> Sorry this is about carbon steels. VG series have presence of course.



Okay, but in what way are Takefu Steel's carbons much much minor?
I mean, not just minor, but much much minor?


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## M1k3 (Jul 22, 2019)

Dan P. said:


> Okay, but in what way are Takefu Steel's carbons much much minor?
> I mean, not just minor, but much much minor?



I think they meant not as popular? Not a major player in the steel world like Hitachi? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## HRC_64 (Jul 22, 2019)

Alot of people rave about v2 (takefu) steel but it seems pretty rare, in actual knives

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/takefu_v2_special.shtml


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## bahamaroot (Jul 22, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> Alot of people rave about v2 (takefu) steel but it seems pretty rare, in actual knives
> 
> http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/takefu_v2_special.shtml


Same V2 used in the Kochi?


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## ojisan (Jul 22, 2019)

Dan P. said:


> Okay, but in what way are Takefu Steel's carbons much much minor?
> I mean, not just minor, but much much minor?



I’d say yes for consumers. It’s hard to find knives soled as made of the V or V-Toku steel even in Japanese market, while there are ton of Aogami/Shirogami knives out there. It’s too minor so sellers even use “Nihonkou” instead. However, this doesn’t mean it’s not “popular” for makers, of course. I don’t know the actual ratio of Hitachi vs Takefu carbon steels in the market.


I once wrote about this in another thread:

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...masahiro-sakai-kikumori-or.41945/#post-618484



M1k3 said:


> I think they meant not as popular? Not a major player in the steel world like Hitachi? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



You probably don’t want to compare Hitachi Steel and Takefu Steel in the steel industry (not in the knife industry) by the way. Hitachi is too big ($10B revenue/30k employees) and Takefu is too small ($15M revenue/50 employees). I heard a rumor that Hitachi is too big to keep Yasuki Steels (R) on their product list, as those steels like Shirogami/Aogami are not enough profitable for them due to the small market size of knives, and Hitachi has been wanting to get rid of them, and they actually did some price ups. Another interesting fact is that the total production of kitchen knives in Fukui pref. (Takefu is part of Fukui) is around $6M. So, Takefu Steel alone is bigger than the entire Takefu knife industry. Takefu Steel has 60% share of prelaminated steels for knives/blades, while Fukui has only 3% share of kitchen knives in Japan.


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## HRC_64 (Jul 22, 2019)

bahamaroot said:


> Same V2 used in the Kochi?



Gesshin/JKI are one of the few off the top of my head. Yoshikane used to offer it but no longer does.
Maxim had Itinomonn v2 was discontinued as well ....All those knives seem to have alot of good comments.

(correct me if I'm wrong of course)


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## CiderBear (Jul 22, 2019)

I see some Yoshikane and Kumagoro (?) with V2 steel on EE
https://www.epicedge.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=1252&cat=Carbon+Steel+-+V2

It looks like the Kaeru KU nakiri and santoku are in V2 as well http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kurouchi-nakiri-165mm/


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## HRC_64 (Jul 22, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> I see some Yoshikane and Kumagoro (?) with V2 steel on EE
> https://www.epicedge.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=1252&cat=Carbon+Steel+-+V2
> 
> It looks like the Kaeru KU nakiri and santoku are in V2 as well http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kurouchi-nakiri-165mm/



Kumagaroo hammered have gyuto for sale in 210 and 240. Assuming thats still in production ... looks like a legit line of v2-core knives.

Those EE yoshikanes are the ones I was talking about above...Maxim also used to sell them but they are NLA and just ods and ends available.

The Kaeru I think is not the mainline Kaeru which is SLD/D2 core (with stainless cladding). That nakiri is all carbon/iron/v2 kind of odd duck.
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru/


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## captaincaed (Jul 23, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> Gesshin/JKI are one of the few off the top of my head. Yoshikane used to offer it but no longer does.
> Maxim had Itinomonn v2 was discontinued as well ....All those knives seem to have alot of good comments.
> 
> (correct me if I'm wrong of course)


I like my V2 kochi a lot. I really like how the steel responds to stones. Get any kind of edge I want without breaking a sweat. Definitely want another.


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## Dan P. (Jul 23, 2019)

ojisan said:


> I’d say yes for consumers. It’s hard to find knives soled as made of the V or V-Toku steel even in Japanese market, while there are ton of Aogami/Shirogami knives out there. It’s too minor so sellers even use “Nihonkou” instead. However, this doesn’t mean it’s not “popular” for makers, of course. I don’t know the actual ratio of Hitachi vs Takefu carbon steels in the market.
> 
> 
> I once wrote about this in another thread:
> ...



Thank you for your reply, very informative!


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## inferno (Jul 23, 2019)

ojisan said:


> SG2 is R2 from kobelco with lamination?



I have heard the base powder steel is kobelco (kobe steel) r2, and when takefu laminates it with either soft SS or "damascus" the product changes name to sg2. Fällkniven also calls this steel 3G.

Its also _quite_ similar to srs-15 in chemistry.


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## Barclid (Jul 23, 2019)

inferno said:


> I have heard the base powder steel is kobelco (kobe steel) r2, and when takefu laminates it with either soft SS or "damascus" the product changes name to sg2. Fällkniven also calls this steel 3G.
> 
> Its also _quite_ similar to srs-15 in chemistry.


There's the addition of Tungsten to SRS-15 that isn't found in R2.


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## inferno (Jul 23, 2019)

As far as i understand takefu special steel is not actually a steel producer like hitachi/sandvik/uddeholm/crucible that works with pig iron/cast iron/pure iron and whatever they do, and then actually melt the alloys they want and produce bars/sheet out of it. 

Takefu seems to make products out of steel bars/sheet/rod that they buy and then turn into laminates or thin sheet. They also seem to do some different hybrid laminated for heat exchangers/radiators and such. 

It looks to me like they specialise in "sheet" products. like SSAB with their hardox steels. But i think SSAB actually do their own melts.


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## inferno (Jul 23, 2019)

Barclid said:


> There's the addition of Tungsten to SRS-15 that isn't found in R2.



yeah but in general its very similar imo. I have several knives in both steels. and there is no practical difference at all. tungsten is just another carbide former. just like V. and they do pretty much the same thing. V carbides are harder and smaller though i think. they are also both grain refiners.

they used to make V steel where V was abundant in the crust and W steel where W was abundant in the crust.


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## Barclid (Jul 24, 2019)

inferno said:


> yeah but in general its very similar imo. I have several knives in both steels. and there is no practical difference at all. tungsten is just another carbide former. just like V. and they do pretty much the same thing. V carbides are harder and smaller though i think. they are also both grain refiners.
> 
> they used to make V steel where V was abundant in the crust and W steel where W was abundant in the crust.



You'll have a larger quantity of combined W+V in SRS-15 vs. just V in R2. In addition, R2 will have more Cr than SRS-15. The greater quantity of W+V on top of the lesser quantity of Cr should result in lower corrosion resistance as well. For what it's worth, I only have one knife in SRS-15 and several in R2 and I anecdotally find the SRS-15 to be less tough at comparable edge geometry than my R2 knives. In all likelihood that's tied in more to specific heat treatment of the two steels, but I'm no @Larrin so maybe he wants to chime in. I'm not trying to say it's a massive difference, but there's more of a compositional difference between the two than, say, 52100 and 1095.


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## M1k3 (Jul 24, 2019)

Barclid said:


> You'll have a larger quantity of combined W+V in SRS-15 vs. just V in R2. In addition, R2 will have more Cr than SRS-15. The greater quantity of W+V on top of the lesser quantity of Cr should result in lower corrosion resistance as well. For what it's worth, I only have one knife in SRS-15 and several in R2 and I anecdotally find the SRS-15 to be less tough at comparable edge geometry than my R2 knives. In all likelihood that's tied in more to specific heat treatment of the two steels, but I'm no @Larrin so maybe he wants to chime in. I'm not trying to say it's a massive difference, but there's more of a compositional difference between the two than, say, 52100 and 1095.



I believe both W and V are less durable than Cr...so R2 should theoretically be tougher, just less abrasion resistant?


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## Nemo (Jul 24, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> I believe both W and V are less durable than Cr...so R2 should theoretically be tougher, just less abrasion resistant?


I'm not familiar with the term "durability" in relation to carbides. Can you explain what is meant by this property?


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## M1k3 (Jul 24, 2019)

Nemo said:


> I'm not familiar with the term "durability" in relation to carbides. Can you explain what is meant by this property?


Less chippy. R2 should be less brittle.


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## Pila (Jul 25, 2019)

Barclid said:


> Why are you assigning numerical scores out of 10 to a heat treatment based solely on the achieved hardness? That's so superficial it's mind blowing. As-quenched, you can easily get knives that hard and simply not temper them. Boom, 66-67 HRc. It's going to be brittle, though.



Absolutelly correct. Knives are first hardned to (likely) 66-67 and then tempered to 62-64. But, people love nubers. It is easier to simply repeat than to learn a bit to understand that number. Steel hardness would be imperative on a steel like Shirogami. Aogami Super has some other things in it that are much harder than 66 HRc .



HRC_64 said:


> The only really negative thing I think of with Takefu is some
> of the smiths used to hammer mulitple blanks at a time,


They do it so they can make them thinner and keep them straight. How is that bad?



zizirex said:


> Another thing with Takefu is they use their Steel from Takefu Steel, not Hitachi. That’s why their HRC is slightly different. ... Their AS is V-Toku 1



Nope, they would never lie which steel they use. This would not be legal and would be frowned upon particulary in Japan since they value their traditional crafts a lot. These two steels are not similar.

All that being said: they mostly do use prelaminated steels which they forge into a proper shape ande thinness. I actualy prefer lamination to be one by someone with proper expertize and technology. As long as it is properly reflected in the price. 

Ther are japanese knives made by stock removal and other industrial cutout methods - easily identifiable with perfectly straight lamination line. And they often cost much too much for what they are.


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## Pila (Jul 25, 2019)

On actual topic of Takefu made knives, I have 5. I do not care how are my knives labeled, I treat each of my knives the same: as a workhorse cutting everything, but am cutting with care.

I have Takamura R2 Gyuto, which is excellent, did not chip even at original 9 dps. Did come with a tiny chip in the edge which I took out immediatelly with a ceramic bar. Now I have reset it to 10 dps to make it a fair race. I have Petty at 9 dps. No chipping, good edge retention. Cleaned and deboned entire chicken with both, cut things with 10 kg of force, cut crusty bread - all is well. Based on them two, I would buy another R2/SG2 and would buy Takamura again. My only two gripes: only Migaki finish available, I prefer rougher - Tsuchime and/or Kurouchi to aid in food release. No Sujihiki 27 cm which I woulde buy in an instant.

I do have Yu Kurosai Shizuku SG2 Gyuto. Handle is rotated a bit. Tip was not done well. It was ground badly for this steel and this price range. It was sharpened to 13-15 dps. Even that thick, it was chipping a bit! Tsuchime is decorative, leaving most surface flat and does nothing to help food release. Shinogi is high, at about half the blade and food sticks a lot to large kireba. Based on what I got from Yu Kurosaki, I would not buy another R2/SG2 knife nor Yu Kurosaki knife again. I have just thinned and convexed the edge and reset bevels to 10 dps. Now seems better, but needs further testing with this setup. 

I did have Anryu Aogami Super Gyuto Tsuchime Kurouchi. First I had 240 mm and it was wavy. Badly ground edge, too, as a result. Returned it after 2 months when they received a replacement. That is the risk of handmade.

Replaced it with Anryu Aogami Super Gyuto Tsuchime Kurouchi 210 mm. Came at 10 dps. Thin tip. Cuts often a tad better than other knives at 10 dps. Chips? Never heard of them. Kurouchi is real and not faked after grinding like on many models today. This one will not be easily removed - I did cut many, many oranges, crusty breads, hard cheese... Shiny parts are scratched. Tsuchime is partially decorative (flat areas are not broken up by ovrlaping hammer marks), but Kurouchi saves the day on food release. Handle is offset a bit from the center. AS patinad in about a week. As any AS, it has Felt Pen @ edge function inbuilt: if not used for a week, one must clear the edge if the knife is to be sharp - few gentle swipes with ceramic rod at 10 dps are needed. Based on this knife: I would buy another Aogami Super knife and I would buy another Anryu (but would check it very carefully immediatelly).

Interrestingly enough, all of these knives have machine made all signitures, Kurosaki and Anryu with the same one. Takamura is even trying to mimic hand chiseling. They are all most likely made from prelaminated stock. But, I do not have issue with pricing of these knives, except for Yu Kurosaki.


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## M1k3 (Jul 25, 2019)

Pila said:


> On actual topic of Takefu made knives, I have 5. I do not care how are my knives labeled, I treat each of my knives the same: as a workhorse cutting everything, but am cutting with care.
> 
> I have Takamura R2 Gyuto, which is excellent, did not chip even at original 9 dps. Did come with a tiny chip in the edge which I took out immediatelly with a ceramic bar. Now I have reset it to 10 dps to make it a fair race. I have Petty at 9 dps. No chipping, good edge retention. Cleaned and deboned entire chicken with both, cut things with 10 kg of force, cut crusty bread - all is well. Based on them two, I would buy another R2/SG2 and would buy Takamura again. My only two gripes: only Migaki finish available, I prefer rougher - Tsuchime and/or Kurouchi to aid in food release. No Sujihiki 27 cm which I woulde buy in an instant.
> 
> ...


Are the cladding lines straight or wavy? Easy way to tell if a hammer has been taken to the stock VS just stock removal.


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## Barclid (Jul 25, 2019)

Pila said:


> On actual topic of Takefu made knives, I have 5. I do not care how are my knives labeled, I treat each of my knives the same: as a workhorse cutting everything, but am cutting with care.
> 
> I have Takamura R2 Gyuto, which is excellent, did not chip even at original 9 dps. Did come with a tiny chip in the edge which I took out immediatelly with a ceramic bar. Now I have reset it to 10 dps to make it a fair race. I have Petty at 9 dps. No chipping, good edge retention. Cleaned and deboned entire chicken with both, cut things with 10 kg of force, cut crusty bread - all is well. Based on them two, I would buy another R2/SG2 and would buy Takamura again. My only two gripes: only Migaki finish available, I prefer rougher - Tsuchime and/or Kurouchi to aid in food release. No Sujihiki 27 cm which I woulde buy in an instant.
> 
> ...



Not sure what you mean by "trying to mimic hand chiseling". It's just a stamp. And Takamura do make a 27cm Sujihiki... It's just not in the red handle line. https://www.mtckitchen.com/takamura-hsps-pro-sujihiki-knife-270mm-10-6/

They also make the Chromax and VG-10 with Tsuchime finish if that's what you like. Not sure why you said you wouldn't buy another R2 knife again re: your Kurosaki statement when you said you liked the Takamura, too.


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## Nemo (Jul 25, 2019)

Pila said:


> I do have Yu Kurosai Shizuku SG2 Gyuto. Handle is rotated a bit. Tip was not done well. It was ground badly for this steel and this price range. It was sharpened to 13-15 dps. Even that thick, it was chipping a bit! Tsuchime is decorative, leaving most surface flat and does nothing to help food release. Shinogi is high, at about half the blade and food sticks a lot to large kireba. Based on what I got from Yu Kurosaki, I would not buy another R2/SG2 knife nor Yu Kurosaki knife again. I have just thinned and convexed the edge and reset bevels to 10 dps. Now seems better, but needs further testing with this setup.



My experience with Shizuku has been quite differnt to yours.

Sure, food release is ordinary but it is a thin knife, like a robustly spined laser, so I expected this. The tip on mine is fine. No chipping at all and very good edge retention. Mine is from KnS, so James probably sharpened away the weak factory edge. He installed the handle right too.


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## bahamaroot (Jul 25, 2019)

I have the hammered Kurosaki R2, not the Shizuku, and love it. No problems with chipping at all, glides through everything. Food release is good but not great.


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## Cyrilix (Jul 25, 2019)

Barclid said:


> Not sure what you mean by "trying to mimic hand chiseling". It's just a stamp. And Takamura do make a 27cm Sujihiki... It's just not in the red handle line. https://www.mtckitchen.com/takamura-hsps-pro-sujihiki-knife-270mm-10-6/
> 
> They also make the Chromax and VG-10 with Tsuchime finish if that's what you like. Not sure why you said you wouldn't buy another R2 knife again re: your Kurosaki statement when you said you liked the Takamura, too.



Think that was just a miscommunication cause poster explicitly said they would buy a Takamura R2 again, just not a Kurosaki R2.


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## ojisan (Jul 25, 2019)

Barclid said:


> Not sure what you mean by "trying to mimic hand chiseling". It's just a stamp.



If I understand correctly, MTC carries special versions of Takamura that have the English logo stamped. Other sellers carry the original versions with the kanji logo chiseled. To me it looks actually chiseled... no?


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## Barclid (Jul 25, 2019)

ojisan said:


> If I understand correctly, MTC carries special versions of Takamura that have the English logo stamped. Other sellers carry the original versions with the kanji logo chiseled. To me it looks actually chiseled... no?



That English language stamp wore out some time during their last production cycle and they reverted to Kanji instead of having another made. The English stamp was used to differentiate provenance of each knife (English stamp was only sold through MTC). The Chromax, Wine Red and Pro had the English language stamp but the Uchigumo and Hana had the Kanji stamp. Now all the standard lines are being done with the Kanji stamp. They do both chiseled and stamped Kanji, however, depending on the line. I'll link a few examples.

https://imgur.com/a/wPEOItL - Hand-engraved red Urushi Hana Sujihiki

https://imgur.com/a/C15R83n - Hand-engraved wine red Tsuchime Santoku - special edition commemorating their father's award.

https://imgur.com/a/c3oYym4 - Stamped - 13cm Hana petty.

I have a 24cm Hana Sujihiki that was stamped as well but I sanded down the etched Damascus finish on that one and lost most of the detail so you can't really tell.

Edit: Forgot to mention, there is an English-language stamp for the Pro line, called Blazen in Japan. But it's a different stamp than what was used for MTC's stock.


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## ojisan (Jul 26, 2019)

Barclid said:


> That English language stamp wore out some time during their last production cycle and they reverted to Kanji instead of having another made. The English stamp was used to differentiate provenance of each knife (English stamp was only sold through MTC). The Chromax, Wine Red and Pro had the English language stamp but the Uchigumo and Hana had the Kanji stamp. Now all the standard lines are being done with the Kanji stamp. They do both chiseled and stamped Kanji, however, depending on the line. I'll link a few examples.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/wPEOItL - Hand-engraved red Urushi Hana Sujihiki
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info! I actually avoided MTC when I bought my Takamura due to the English logo. The original kanji logo looks better to me.

As for the Hana petty, are the kanjis also stamped? The logo mark must be stamped, but the kanjis look like chiseled in the picture.


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## Barclid (Jul 26, 2019)

ojisan said:


> Thanks for the info! I actually avoided MTC when I bought my Takamura due to the English logo. The original kanji logo looks to me.
> 
> As for the Hana petty, are the kanjis also stamped? The logo mark must be stamped, but the kanjis look like chiseled in the picture.


It's a stamp. The new Pro line has the stamped kanji as well. Think of it like shigefusa. Most of their knives except single bevel kitaeji have stamped kanji but the stamp that they do use is well done.

Usually customs or special lines have hand chiseled kanji for Takamura. You can tell when they've done it by hand because it's the last step they do after all the finishing so the hand chiseled kanji will have displaced metal around the edges while the stamp is much cleaner and just all sort of pushed down. Not all of the photos on the website are updated but almost all English logo knives are gone. Just a couple 24cm sujihiki left with it.


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## ojisan (Jul 26, 2019)

Barclid said:


> It's a stamp. The new Pro line has the stamped kanji as well. Think of it like shigefusa. Most of their knives except single bevel kitaeji have stamped kanji but the stamp that they do use is well done.
> 
> Usually customs or special lines have hand chiseled kanji for Takamura. You can tell when they've done it by hand because it's the last step they do after all the finishing so the hand chiseled kanji will have displaced metal around the edges while the stamp is much cleaner and just all sort of pushed down. Not all of the photos on the website are updated but almost all English logo knives are gone. Just a couple 24cm sujihiki left with it.



Thank you! I checked my R2 and yeah now it looks stamped, with pseudo strokes.
I think you could say it "mimicks" hand chiseling as people like me don't doubt it's chiseled.


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## Barclid (Jul 26, 2019)

ojisan said:


> Thank you! I checked my R2 and yeah now it looks stamped, with pseudo strokes.
> I think you could say it "mimicks" hand chiseling as people like me don't doubt it's chiseled.



I guess so, in the same way that Aritsugu, Masamoto and Shigefusa stamps mimic hand chiseling, in that the stamp is made with distinct stroke marks so that it's not simply one continuous line and continuous depth.


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## drsmp (Aug 8, 2019)

No chips in any of my Kurosaki’s - 2x 180, 2x 210 and a 240. I have 2 AS, 2 R2 and a SRS 13.


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## Mastacator (Aug 19, 2019)

I own 7 knives from the village. I’ve loved all of them, but my two favorites are my 240mm Anryu AS hammered Gyuto and the Kurosaki Fujin AS nakiri. I did get to pick all of mine out and have not used knives from other blacksmiths.

I know they aren’t thought of super highly here, especially amongst much more expensive knives. Is there really much of a performance difference between these and others? Might have to expand my collection soon!


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## Brian Weekley (Aug 19, 2019)

Like I said in a previous post. In my opinion the most humble knife from Takefu will cut better than 99.5% of the knives in the hands of North Americans today. It’s likely that tomorrow’s most collectible knives will be produced by one of the Takefu knife smith apprentices of today. Who are you betting on? Anryu’s 240 Damascus gyuto is one of my favourite rotation knives. Fully reactive, very reasonably priced, attractive, easy to sharpen, rocks and push cuts very well. I keep one permanently in my knife roll when I cook for relatives and friends and another in my rotation. Say what you will about Kurosaki. His knives are breaking the mold in many respects. His finishes are very artistic. For such a young smith it’s hard to imagine where he will be in 20 years. I keep one of his Fujin Bunka’s in my roll just to show Wustoff users just how wonderful a Japanese knife is to use. Performance difference to my more expensive knives of which I have many. Let me ask that question a little differently. Am I capable of extracting the additional performance offered by a $500 knife ... a $1000 knife ... a $2000 knife? I won’t answer that but I think most of us know the answer. I have a Myabi Black santoku that has a place in my permanent non rotating rotation. Lovely cutting knife ... completely devoid of character. You could order a thousand of them and each would be identical. The Takefu village is a wonderful concept and is worthy of support. Are there better knives .... sure .... when your budget allows buy some of them too. It’s all good.


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## dsk (Aug 19, 2019)

I don't currently own any takefu (I entered this knife world on sanjo so I have my bias) but when Makoto releases something new, or finally restocks his white 2, I will be on it. I like his work much more than his brother's.


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## adam92 (Jan 24, 2020)

drsmp said:


> No chips in any of my Kurosaki’s - 2x 180, 2x 210 and a 240. I have 2 AS, 2 R2 and a SRS 13.


Comparing R2 with AS, you think which is better ?


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## danemonji (Jan 24, 2020)

R2 deosn't bite that much into the stone when you sharpen it as AS. Carbon steel, feels when sharpen it, like when you draw with a graphite pencil on a piece of paper, while R2 feels like when you draw with a wax crayon. Carbon will always take the finer edge.
I would choose AS for this any time and for the cool contrasting patina it takes.


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## adam92 (Jan 24, 2020)

danemonji said:


> R2 deosn't bite that much into the stone when you sharpen it as AS. Carbon steel, feels when sharpen it, like when you draw with a graphite pencil on a piece of paper, while R2 feels like when you draw with a wax crayon. Carbon will always take the finer edge.
> I would choose AS for this any time and for the cool contrasting patina it takes.


that's a very useful reviews, Thanks for sharing


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## josemartinlopez (Sep 8, 2020)

If you were going to get just one Takefu knife to try and compare (to try, not to hope to win the lottery and get the best knife ever), which one would it be? My impression is most people would get a Yu Kurosaki R2 or aogami super. Shiro Kamo (especially guys who like taller knives) and Makoto Kurosaki have a following, and Anryu seems to have a following too. I also got the impression that a certain other forum really, really, really likes Takeshi Saji.

I can't seem to distinguish one Takefu maker's work from the other other than Yu Kurosaki's fashion forward finishes.

I thought Takefu western handles, though less common, look very well done though not to the level of Tanaka Ironwoods.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Sep 8, 2020)

My first serious J knife is Anryu blue 2 hammered 240 and it is a really good knife. Great profile, aggressive distal taper, thin behind the edge, good fit and finish. And it’s nimble and light. The steel is easy to sharpen and has a decent edge life. The only thing I didn’t like is the front half is a bit too flexible, but for the price it’s a really decent knife.


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## josemartinlopez (Sep 8, 2020)

Should I even ask why Kurosaki's prices have well overtaken much older masters like Anryu?


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## zizirex (Sep 8, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Should I even ask why Kurosaki's prices have well overtaken much older masters like Anryu?


Hype + Looks.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Sep 8, 2020)

adam92 said:


> Comparing R2 with AS, you think which is better ?


Most of my knives are carbon but I recently found I enjoy the convenience of stainless steel knives more than I thought.


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## athel (Sep 8, 2020)

I would get a white #2 Kintaro from JKI. From what I've handled, the grinds are a lot more consistent on those compared to most Takefu village knives, and you get the higher quality assurance standards from JKI in general.


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## MowgFace (Sep 8, 2020)

athel said:


> I would get a white #2 Kintaro from JKI. From what I've handled, the grinds are a lot nicer on those compared to most Takefu village knives, and you get the higher quality assurance standards from JKI.



+1 .

My 240 Kintaro in W#2 is great. Nice F&F and thin. Love it.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Sep 8, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Should I even ask why Kurosaki's prices have well overtaken much older masters like Anryu?


The Kurosaki western k tip gyuto is one of the best looking knives out there IMO. Other Kurosakis are just not my thing. And the grind seems inconsistent from batch to batch.


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## josemartinlopez (Sep 8, 2020)

Those handles are beautiful indeed


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## Nagakin (Sep 8, 2020)

JCK has some AS gyuto by Nao Yamamoto, who I recommend. I haven't tried these in particular, but want to soon.


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## lemeneid (Sep 9, 2020)

Buying a Takefu knife is like going to the fertility clinic and then you realize all the kids born there look similar.

Nice kids from one guy, but otherwise nothing special.


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## juice (Sep 9, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Buying a Takefu knife is like going to the fertility clinic and then you realize all the kids born there look similar.
> 
> Nice kids from one guy, but otherwise nothing special.



⁉⁉⁉


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## wombat (Sep 9, 2020)

Very happy with both of mine (Yu Kurosaki Fujin bunka and Makoto R2 petty). Haven't had any problems with chipping, but they are both generally used for more delicate tasks.


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## Eloh (Sep 9, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Buying a Takefu knife is like going to the fertility clinic and then you realize all the kids born there look similar.
> 
> Nice kids from one guy, but otherwise nothing special.



on the other hand, some people rather go the safe route and choose a kid that's not special, instead of taking a 50% chance of getting a retarded child (sorry for political incorrectness lol)


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## JoBone (Sep 10, 2020)

Takefu knives are like Toyota cars; most people will be very happy with them, but perhaps not those who own a BMW. They are really good for what they are, better than 99.8% of knives in the US and better than factory produced knives from Japan. 

My first good Japanese knife was a Anryu Blue #2. At the time I thought it was totally awesome and I still think it’s a great knife. It doesn’t find much use now, but that doesn’t detract from it’s quality.


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## Qapla' (Sep 11, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Buying a Takefu knife is like going to the fertility clinic and then you realize all the kids born there look similar.
> 
> Nice kids from one guy, but otherwise nothing special.


What do you see as being the visible underlying similarities between a Takamura, a Saji, and an Anryu? Or a Kitaoka vis-a-vis other Takefu single-bevel makers (and in contrast with a Sakai or Seki single-bevel knife)?


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## josemartinlopez (Sep 11, 2020)

Would you keep Takefu knives as part of a rotation even if you own higher end knives? If you were going for lighter knives, are there things that are better or at least clearly have more handwork (let’s say higher end for lack of a better term) in the same profile and steel as the Takefu knives?


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## M1k3 (Sep 11, 2020)

Qapla' said:


> What do you see as being the visible underlying similarities between a Takamura, a Saji, and an Anryu? Or a Kitaoka vis-a-vis other Takefu single-bevel makers (and in contrast with a Sakai or Seki single-bevel knife)?


 - JML probably


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## JoBone (Sep 11, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Would you keep Takefu knives as part of a rotation even if you own higher end knives?



I started with Takefu knives, but mainly use higher end knives now. I find it mostly true with gyutos and petties, but there are exceptions to this.

Saji San
I have a Saji colored Damascus gyuto that makes the cut, it’s one of my wife’s favorites as it really fits her hand well. I love its thicker spine but the height isn’t quite where I like it. Depending on hand size, it makes a great knife. I think this line of knives have almost more of a Niigata feel to them but a with little lower profile. Perhaps it’s his affinity for hunting knives that makes them so different. He has a new black Damascus line coming out which peeks my curiosity. I like to support the older blacksmiths and get their knives while I can. 

Kurosaki San,
I love Kurosaki knives, they are both well crafted and look really cool. I think he stands out for his style, as he pushes the boundaries with this various hammers. He sometimes sports dyed hair and likes colorful handles, so his knives are not for everyone. I often have a Kurosaki AS bunka in rotation for that size knife. I think he does a great job with AS and I was impressed with his cobalt special. He has a line of the colored Damascus that he is working on, which will be available in both VG10 gold and AS. As VG10 comes from Echizen, those blacksmiths tend to do a better job with it than others. Still, I’ll go for the AS version. 

Kato San
I have a Masakage Yuki Nakiri that is often in rotation. I picked it up with my first batch of knives and it still sees regular use. It’s just a good knife and I never think of it as one that needs improvements (okay, I will admit I am seriously wanting a Toyama 210 Nakiri and I have an order in for a Mazaki Damascus 180 Nakiri)

Kobayashi San 
Perhaps these fall in line with Takefu Expectations with the profile, but his SG2 black Damascus is really nice. I am impressed with the look and f&f on these. As he is known as a sharpener and finisher, these are well done to carry his name. I am really enjoying the light weight feel to it - great cutter. I don’t know if they stand out for SG2, but it’s the first SG2 that I’ve used.


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## josemartinlopez (Sep 11, 2020)

Thanks very much, great post. Would you have any experience with Anryu and Shiro Kamo, two more names that come up, and any SG2/R2 knives that have stayed in the rotation? Could I ask what "higher end" knives replaced the Takefu knives you used to use?


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## JoBone (Sep 11, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Would you have any experience with Anryu and Shiro Kamo, two more names that come up, and any SG2/R2 knives that have stayed in the rotation? Could I ask what "higher end" knives replaced the Takefu knives you used to use?


For Japanese high ends that I use - Hinoura, Toyama, Kato Kiyoshi, Tanaka Yoshikazu, Shigs, Carter, Fujiwara Teruyasu , Sukenari. I would like to get a Tansu, Raquinn and Jiro at some point. Also have a Mazaki Damascus coming in and I think Nigara and Yoshida are other good high end knives.

For SG2, I’ve avoided it until recently, partly because I like sharpening knives and partly because I prefer carbon. Since I like sharpening, high edge retention isn’t really desirable. Maybe if I ever master sharpening, I may change my mind.

As I hobby in handle work, many knives get sent to me. I’ve seen a few Kato Kiyoshi with flaws. If I create a post with photos of the bad spots, will it influence people into thinking he makes bad knives? For Takefu (and TF) people focus on the faulty ones, but those are not representative of those knives as a whole.

Except for a Wat Nakiri, I’ve never used any of the knives sent to me but I get to see how they look and feel in my hand. There are so many good knives that differ wildly, much of it comes down to preferences. Takefu knives are a great knife for that price point, but there are other good makers at the same price like Mazaki and Kawamura (yoshimune), some house brands from JKI and JCK to name a few.


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## josemartinlopez (Sep 11, 2020)

The many Takefu knives on your Instagram after your work are certainly elevated to a completely different level sir.


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## josemartinlopez (Sep 11, 2020)

Would you be able to compare your Takefu knives against your higher end knives? For example, how would your Takefu aogami super knives with similar profiles compare to lighter knives on your list such as Y Tanakas and Carters?


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## JoBone (Sep 11, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Would you be able to compare your Takefu knives against your higher end knives?



Too many details there, it may be best to fill out a knife recommendation form.

When I started I emailed JKI about a couple knives and Jon personally called me back. He was kind enough to down sell, not up sell to me as higher end knives are often more delicate in nature. I am still grateful for the advice that he gave me. 

One thing I want to add about KKF, their greatest strength can also be a weakness to some. Namely, there is a lot of very serious knowledge and experience, KKF is really awesome for that. But, it’s like walking into a wine club and overhearing a couple experts debating between a 1998 vs. 1999 grape when a $8 bottle of wine tastes great to you. The finer details are more important once you develop greater appreciation and understanding.


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## josemartinlopez (Sep 11, 2020)

I'll come back and reread this thread when ready then.


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## VicVox72 (Sep 11, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Buying a Takefu knife is like going to the fertility clinic and then you realize all the kids born there look similar.
> 
> Nice kids from one guy, but otherwise nothing special.



Are you implying Toyamanabe/Watanayama/Mazaki also makes Shibata knives


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## Twigg (Sep 11, 2020)

I will add to what @JoBone said regarding Kato's Masakagi Yuki line. I have a Yuki honesuki and it is great. It is a wonderful knife for its purpose. I bought it to break down chickens and have also used it to make chicken meat-suits following Jacques Pepins instructions. At the time I thought I would rather learn on a $160 knife than a more expensive one, especially if I damaged it. Please keep in mind I am just a home user, so I have only done a few ducks, turkeys and 50 to 60 chickens. The knife is easy to touch up to keep sharp, very sharp. I have yet to damage it and more importantly, I now see no reason to buy a different or more expensive honesuki. The Yuki just works really well for me and is low maintenance.


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## josemartinlopez (Sep 11, 2020)

Is there any advantage to using a higher end honesuki for this? I thought this was one application where people treated the knife as a beater.


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## ian (Sep 11, 2020)

Twigg said:


> I will add to what @JoBone said regarding Kato's Masakagi Yuki line. I have a Yuki honesuki and it is great. It is a wonderful knife for its purpose. I bought it to break down chickens and have also used it to make chicken meat-suits following Jacques Pepins instructions. At the time I thought I would rather learn on a $160 knife than a more expensive one, especially if I damaged it. Please keep in mind I am just a home user, so I have only done a few ducks, turkeys and 50 to 60 chickens. The knife is easy to touch up to keep sharp, very sharp. I have yet to damage it and more importantly, I now see no reason to buy a different or more expensive honesuki. The Yuki just works really well for me and is low maintenance.



Many people on here would consider that an expensive honesuki.


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## ian (Sep 11, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Is there any advantage to using a higher end honesuki for this? I thought this was one application where people treated the knife as a beater.



Cause it's fun. I use a Gesshin Heiji, which is more honesuki than I'll ever need. But it does bring a smile to my face in use.


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## Twigg (Sep 11, 2020)

I don't treat the honesuki as a beater, I cut through joints & never bone. As I was learning to break down chickens in these ways I figured that if I screwed up and hit bone I would rather it be on the Yuki instead a more expensive knife. I think the Yuki gave me confidence because I wasn't scared to try and possibly make mistakes due to the low cost. I think that if a person were breaking down lots and lots of yard bird, they might want a stainless core or something with more edge retention. As far as my uses, I don't see how a higher end honesuki would matter.


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## Twigg (Sep 11, 2020)

ian said:


> Many people on here would consider that an expensive honesuki.


You're right, $160 for a knife that only breaks down birds is expensive. My meaning was in comparison to the even higher cost knives like a Heiji or a Takeda NAS.


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## zizirex (Sep 12, 2020)

Honesuki and Deba are rough use Japanese knives. It would be wise to spend as moderate as you can since you might chip or leave it in the sink for some time. I have a Tojiro DP Honesuki and it just won't hold the sharpness as I wanted to. I upgrade to Ashi Ginga Honesuki, damn that asymmetric wide bevel holds an edge really nice and easier to touch up.


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