# Rant!



## Dave Martell

:rant:

I never let myself run out of bandsaw blades - I learned this lesson the hard way - so when I install my last blade into the machine I order more. This worked OK in the past until 2 weeks ago when I screwed up the last blade I had just installed through a stupid move. Now I was out of blades and needed one real bad. 

So being that it was a Thursday afternoon I knew I had to get one over-nighted to me or I'd be without for the weekend. I searched the internet for a company who carried my size and could also get it to me the next day. The only source I found was MSC who is nearly twice as expensive but they offered next day delivery at no charge (some free upgrade thing they do) so I went with this. Late Friday afternoon the UPS man drops off my new blade. 

Sat morning comes and I go to install it and guess what? Yeah - it doesn't fit - it's too damn small and ain't going on no matter what! 

So I go back to the internet and go with my tried and trusted source that I've been using and order up two blades but I have no next day option with these folks, it's wait and wait and wait. Finally the new blades arrive yesterday afternoon and I rip the box open and go to install a new blade and guess what? Yeah - it doesn't fit - except this time it's too big by a long shot. 

Too different vendors, same exact size blade ordered, same manufacturer (Lenox) supplied, one is too small and the other too big.....what are the chances of this? 

So here I sit (again) with no damn bandsaw blade going into week #3. :angry1:


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## mr drinky

With your luck, I would suggest not ordering any new pairs of pants or shoes online either. But that sucks. Was it a vendor mistake or manufacturer mistake?

k.


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## tk59

I guess you have to reorder when you're down to two... :sofa:


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## SpikeC

Just fire up the jig saw! Or get some aerobic with a hacksaw.


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## jmforge

You need to order from Goldilocks Supply.:biggrin:


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## Dave Martell

I guess that I'll have to go down to Sears tomorrow and buy 4 of those crap ass carbon steel blades they stock so that I can keep moving while I wait for decent replacements to show...argh

Blade cost $$ tied up so far - $190

By tomorrow - ???


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## Marko Tsourkan

Dave Martell said:


> I guess that I'll have to go down to Sears tomorrow and buy 4 of those crap ass carbon steel blades they stock so that I can keep moving while I wait for decent replacements to show...argh
> 
> Blade cost $$ tied up so far - $190
> 
> By tomorrow - ???


 
Dave,
buy carbide tipped blade next time, Lenox brand. I use these for months on end and I cut everything. I will send you info where I get mine. Carbon blades last me about 20 cuts. Bimetal maybe 50. Carbide tipped - about 4-6 months, but get all the juice out of each. I pay about $75 for 6' blade. 

M


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## Dave Martell

I've been using the bi-metal Lenox but I'm always willing to upgrade.....of course right now even a sh*t ass carbon blade would be great to have. Yes please Marko send the info.


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## kalaeb

Dave, time to get back to your roots. Go for the coping saw and a hacksaw...


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## apicius9

Oh boy, I chickened out on the carbon tipped ones because I only have small blocks to cut. But I went with the bi-metal. We will see where that takes me. Next time in the shop it's cutting time 

Stefan


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## Dave Martell

kalaeb said:


> Dave, time to get back to your roots. Go for the coping saw and a hacksaw...




Noooooo!


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## Dave Martell

apicius9 said:


> Oh boy, I chickened out on the carbon tipped ones because I only have small blocks to cut. But I went with the bi-metal. We will see where that takes me. Next time in the shop it's cutting time
> 
> Stefan


 

Make sure they fit before you NEED them....that's all I'm saying here.


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## Dave Martell

I started this thread on 8/12 - it's 8/29 today and I still don't have a bandsaw blade here!!!!!!!! :bashhead:

I have blades ordered from three different places and I'm still waiting. This is unbelievable!


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## Delbert Ealy

Dave you know that for all the time and expense so for you could have ordered a metal cutting bandsaw from grizzly and blades to go with it and be up and running now? Sorry to kick you while you are down 
Del


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## Dave Martell

Delbert Ealy said:


> Dave you know that for all the time and expense so for you could have ordered a metal cutting bandsaw from grizzly and blades to go with it and be up and running now? Sorry to kick you while you are down
> Del


 

You're right....


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## SpikeC

Or you could sharpen your old blades.........


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## Dave Martell

SpikeC said:


> Or you could sharpen your old blades.........




That's not funny! :bat:


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## SpikeC

People do it, though


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## Dave Martell

Yeah but not this people.


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## Dave Martell

The woodshop is up & running again! I just got in two bandsaw blades that actually fit my machine. :bliss:

Thanks to all of you who helped me out here. :thumbsup:

Dave


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## JohnnyChance

Only 2 blades? Time to reorder or you'll be posting in this thread again a week from now!


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## Dave Martell

JohnnyChance said:


> Only 2 blades? Time to reorder or you'll be posting in this thread again a week from now!


 
LOL but I also have two other companies sending 2 each as well so I might end up with 6 good ones......hopefully.


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## Diamond G

You dont mention what size blades you are using, But here is a company that I have been buying from and head great sucess. The blades seem to hold up much longer than the starrett and Noresman blades Ive been using, as well as being much cheaper if you buy 10 at a time. They will mix TPI if needed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190475895215?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

God Bless
Mike


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## Dave Martell

It's 89 1/2"

Thanks for the tip Mike


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## Dave Martell

OK I'm back to rant again! :angry1:


Since I received my new blades (after waiting what - 4 weeks) I've killed so many blocks of wood with buckling. 

I've tried every trick sent to me as well as changed blades and made adjustments, I've gone slow - I've gone fast and yet every other block I cut in half I watch the scales buckle. It's 75% to the outside but the inside buckles as well. 

This woodworking is for the birds - give me steel anyday of the week! :viking:


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## Marko Tsourkan

Dave Martell said:


> OK I'm back to rant again! :angry1:
> 
> 
> Since I received my new blades (after waiting what - 4 weeks) I've killed so many blocks of wood with buckling.
> 
> I've tried every trick sent to me as well as changed blades and made adjustments, I've gone slow - I've gone fast and yet every other block I cut in half I watch the scales buckle. It's 75% to the outside but the inside buckles as well.
> 
> This woodworking is for the birds - give me steel anyday of the week! :viking:



Maybe time to replace your bandsaw with an older US-made one? Delta comes to mind. You can pick one up for a couple of hundred of bucks locally, I bet. 

Send me your wood and I will resaw it for you. 50 cuts? No problem. 

I love my Shopsmith bandsaw with Lenox carbide blade. Smoothest cut ever.

M


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## SpikeC

Get yerself a nice backsaw and cut them by hand.


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## Mike

Dave, you may just want to go for a better band saw. Nearly two years ago I had issues much like yours, then I gave up and got a Powematic, problem solved. As far as modern tools go, this saw performs like the old green machines did back in shop class but with much better tracking and a very useful tensionnng system. Mine cuts true and is very simple to adjust both the table and fence. Just my .02


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## Dave Martell

I'm so not wanting to hear the get a better saw suggestion but I can't ignore that this would likely solve some (or all) my problems.


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## Marko Tsourkan

Dave, 
Rule number one - buy best equipment you can afford.
Rule number two - buy US made equipment, even it it's 20-50 years old, as long as it is in working order and good condition. You won't regret it. 

M


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## Dave Martell

I should be drinking right now.


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## Marko Tsourkan

I follow these two rules religiously. And I am not joking. 

M


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## Eamon Burke

Dave Martell said:


> I should be drinking right now.


 
Yes, do that. And browse eBay. You will end up in the doghouse, but luckily your doghouse will be full of quality woodworking tools.


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## Michael Rader

+1 on the Powermatic. Love mine. And I just might have to try the carbide tipped blades too.

-M


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## Dave Martell

You're not helping here Michael. :bat:


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## Burl Source

Can you post a photo of what is happening?
I am not sure what you mean by the wood buckling.

I spend a little time cutting wood so I thought if I could see exactly what you are talking about I might be able to help come up with a solution.
The saws we use here range from 50+ year old Butcher Boy meat cutting bandsaws to Grizzlie and Jets.
So as you probably guessed I have had a little experience improvising to make things work.


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## Dave Martell

I don't have any of the screw ups to shoot a picture of but maybe I can explain it. Imagine when cutting a 1" block in half (for scales) the outside "scale" is turning outward away from the blade. In some cases it's only this outer piece that gets curled but in other cases both curl but the inside always a lot less. 

What I end up with is the middles touching but not the ends and if flipped outside-in I get the ends touching and not the middle. 

Does that make any sense?


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## SpikeC

Sounds like a wood issue, more than a saw issue.


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## kalaeb

Must be that wood from Hawaii, just send it all my way and I will take care of it for you.


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## Marko Tsourkan

SpikeC said:


> Sounds like a wood issue, more than a saw issue.


 
Might be an inadequate tension in the blade.


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## Burl Source

First thing I would do is try making the same cut with some scrap pieces of wood.
Be sure to cut a similar sized piece of wood. (Example is 1&1/2" wide piece for your test cut if you are having problems with cutting blocks that were 1&1/2" wide)
Also use a hardwood like maple or walnut.
This should tell you if something is out of whack with your saw.
I always cut a test piece first before gambling with the good stuff.
By doing a test piece I am able to insure that my table has not been bumped out of square. 
I also use a test cut to double check my thickness of the cut I am making.

If you get the same results with the test cuts that has been happening to you it can be a variety of different things.

*Adjustments*
If the blade is not tight enough it can flex or wander.
Your blade guides might not be set right. I use a business card to set the space between the blade and the guide. 
The top guard should be lowered to a point just above the height of the piece you are cutting.
*If these adjustments don't correct the problem, next thing to consider is your blade.*

If you hit something with your blade like a rock, dirt or a piece of metal it can chip the side of some of the teeth. In addition to dulling the blade it can also cause it to wander.

If you have been cutting and the blade got bound or stuck in the wood it can become distorted.

Sometimes it will just be bad blade(s)
Crummy weld, cheap steel or bad cutting of the teeth.

Blades are like knives, If you find cheap ones there is probably a good reason.
I like Lenox Bi-metal blades myself. They cost about 3X a normal blade.
But if it keeps you from messing up just one block it has paid for itself.

============================================================

If you check the blade and all the adjustments and you get good cuts on the test pieces but bad on the actual blocks then it narrows things down to 2 things.
#1 The wood
If it is natural wood that was not kiln dried correctly, the wood can experience case hardening. This causes the wood to spring into another shape when cut.
#2 You
If you push too hard and try to cut too fast your cut will start out closer to the fence and then gradually wander outward. If you push the block too hard or at an angle with your push stick the blade will wander back toward the fence at the end of your cut.

If you use slow and steady pressure when making your cut, the blade will determine how fast to cut and you should get an even cut even with wood that varies in hardness.

Hopefully this will help.
Don't ask how I learned these things.

One last piece of advice.
If you go to a local cabinet shop they will usually be happy to give you a box of junk, cutoffs.
Cut these into blocks about the same size as the pieces you will be cutting and keep these next to your saw.
Every time you will be cutting scales, use one of these pieces and make a test cut.
Then you will be able to make sure the saw is cutting correctly as well as double check the dimensions of your cut.
There have been times I thought I set my cut for 3/8" thick and had mis-read my tape.


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## Dave Martell

Thanks for the input Mark :thumbsup:

I took some time and went down through your comments like a check list and while not one thing on the list could be found as bad maybe some things were made better which could help here.

I actually think that I have an issue with this particular blade. It's almost too short (hard to get on) and needs to run on the front edge of the wheels because if it is brought to the middle it starts making a hell of a noise and looks to run "twisted" and that's regardless of the amount of tension applied. If I bring the blade forward to the front edge of the wheels the blade runs straight. This is a problem that hasn't come up for me before but now with 6 blades all slightly different in length (even though they're supposedly the same) I guess I'll have to watch for this. 

Anyway, thanks again for your help.


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## Burl Source

My advice,
Find a different blade supplier.
They are supposed to be a set length. Not a range.
If you have to run the blade off center it will cause your cut to wander because the blade is not cutting square.

If it were me I would take off the blade, pour gas all over it, light it on fire and then urinate on it to put out the fire.
Then I would put it in a box, write a nasty note to the supplier. Defecate on top of that and send it back.

But then.......I over-react sometimes.:shocked3:
or so I have been told.

But seriously, trying to run a blade that is too small can snap and remove fingers.


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## mr drinky

Burl Source said:


> If it were me I would take off the blade, pour gas all over it, light it on fire and then urinate on it to put out the fire.
> Then I would put it in a box, write a nasty note to the supplier. Defecate on top of that and send it back.
> 
> But then.......I over-react sometimes.



LOL. Now I know my return policy to Burl Source 

k.


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## Burl Source

This is one of those times where if you could edit your post later, I would have gone back and toned down my comments.

That said, I get very angry when a company's negligence creates a situation where someone is likely to get injured.

Still....I am over reacting, but it made me think of the last time I had a bandsaw blade break when I was cutting scales.
Fortunately the blade missed me. Saved by the blade guard and a push stick. 
The broken blade cut into the push stick. Would have been my fingers if I wasn't using the push stick.


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## Dave Martell

LOL Mark but don't be sorry - that's exactly what I needed to here. That blade is coming out tomorrow then I'll pour gas all over it, light it on fire and then urinate on it to put out the fire. Then I'll put it in a box, write a nasty note to the supplier. Defecate on top of that and send it back.


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## Burl Source

Dave Martell said:


> LOL Mark but don't be sorry - that's exactly what I needed to here. That blade is coming out tomorrow then I'll pour gas all over it, light it on fire and then urinate on it to put out the fire. Then I'll put it in a box, write a nasty note to the supplier. Defecate on top of that and send it back.


 
When I saw you had replied I was afraid it was going to say that you were banning the crazy burl guy.
Now I know I have to be careful if I ever tell you anything that you should do.


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## l r harner

i sure am glad that i can get blades welded up in town (tho they are cutting back on what band stock they keep on hand


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## Dave Martell

Just put another new blade on the saw, made all adjustments, blade twisted & cut sideways on the first 1/2". :bashhead:


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## Marko Tsourkan

Dave Martell said:


> Just put another new blade on the saw, made all adjustments, blade twisted & cut sideways on the first 1/2". :bashhead:


 
Something is wrong with your bandsaw's blade tension and guides, Dave -


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## Dave Martell

Yeah it's becoming apparent that I've got a big problem here.


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## l r harner

dave jsut had a thought 
all of your rollerbearings are free spinning right ? i jsut replaced all of mine after having cutting problems


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## Burl Source

Dave,
If you need any wood cut while you are getting things figured out, I will be happy to cut whatever you need done.
Let me know if you need my mailing address. For me it would be a chance to return a favor.
Mark

PS:
One other thing to look at.
If you take your bandsaw blade and lay it on a table with the spine of the blade against the table, is the width of the blade square to the tabletop? or does it lean. A crooked weld would cause it to lean and not cut correctly.


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## Marko Tsourkan

Burl Source said:


> Dave,
> If you need any wood cut while you are getting things figured out, I will be happy to cut whatever you need done.
> Let me know if you need my mailing address. For me it would be a chance to return a favor.
> Mark


 
I can do the cutting too. I am a bit closer than Mark. And yes, it would be a rush job.


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## Mike

Dave, if you're able to, you may want to adjust your trunnions and make sure that your wheels are coplanar. Also, if your band saw has poly or rubber wheels/ tires make sure that they aren't worn or warped, if so, you may need to purchase replacements. Hope this helps.


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## Dave Martell

You guys are too cool to offer to help me on the cutting. I also received a couple of PM's for this too. I'm hoping not to have to take anyone up on this but if things don;t change soon I just might. I REALLY appreciate this!

Also, thanks for the advice, I'm trying everything suggested.


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## Mike Davis

Dave what saw are you using?


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## Dave Martell

Mike Davis said:


> Dave what saw are you using?


 

It's a 12" Craftsman which I think is actually a Rikon


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## Mike

Dave do you have a model number? You may be having the same issue that my neighbor had not too long ago. With his, it turned out that the wheels were not coplanar and he had issues with the arbor being bent slightly.


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## Dave Martell

It's 22400


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## Mike

So, Dave, did you get your saw running true?


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## Dave Martell

Mike said:


> So, Dave, did you get your saw running true?




I haven't even looked at it since I last posted. I guess I was fortunate to have a lot of other things to do to keep me away from that thing or it's be smashed to pieces by now. I do need to get cutting again soon though so we'll see.


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## Eamon Burke

Dave, I know it doesn't help you, but this thread has taught me something.

I will buy the best tools my money can possibly buy, even if that means getting less tools and doing more work. :thumbsup:


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## l r harner

yep cry once and be done with it 
i killed 2 metal saws before i got my reall made in the USA roll in saw and i ll never loook back (the wood saw well needs abit of work yet )


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## Mike

Dave, next time buy a Powermatic or Laguna (if you win the lotto).:biggrin:

Here is what I have my eye on in case my numbers ever come in. 

http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt32

I may never need something this large, but I'd buy it in a heart beat.


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## Dave Martell

Breakthrough today! No I didn't buy a Powermatic or Laguna but I'm almost as happy as if I had. :EDance2:

I had to cut some wood to start prepping scales for the next round sO I knew I had to look at the monster again so I figured "F" it and dove in head first. I took apart the top and bottom guide rollers/bearing assemblies and the table and found something very interesting. Just under the table wedged in between the bottom rear roller was a small piece of wood. It was wedged against the side of the roller and had pushed the assembly down and to the outside in such a way that I couldn't properly see the whole roller to adjust the gap. This little piece of wood was pushing on the wheel that in turn pushed on the blade causing it to twist and bind. All this happening under the table out of sight. 

The thing is cruising like a champ now. 

Still doesn't account for the terrible quality control problems with all of my blade sources but at least that one problem is fixed.


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## tk59

Congratulations, Dave! I was starting to think you were cursed, lol.


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## SpikeC

Woo-Hoo!! Nothing like a good careful look around to get to the bottom of a problem! Congrats!


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## ecchef

I was gonna start my own rant thread but figured I'd just hijack Dave's.
It's 1 AM and my drunken imbecile neighbors are making all kinds of noise. I can understand why Americans get a bad rap. These shitbirds have no respect for anyone else, and it reflects poorly on all the rest of us living in a host nation. Bunch of Jerry Springer rejects. No wonder we can't win a war against a bunch of sheep & goat herders. Say what you will, but you ain't here.


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## Dave Martell

ecchef said:


> I was gonna start my own rant thread but figured I'd just hijack Dave's.
> It's 1 AM and my drunken imbecile neighbors are making all kinds of noise. I can understand why Americans get a bad rap. These shitbirds have no respect for anyone else, and it reflects poorly on all the rest of us living in a host nation. Bunch of Jerry Springer rejects. No wonder we can't win a war against a bunch of sheep & goat herders. Say what you will, but you ain't here.



On my 2nd year In the UK (maybe 19 at the time?) I started to realize how awful Americans (yes I'm one of them) can be with regards to how we act. This really changed the way I think with regards to world views and travel.


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