# WIP - Nakiri, Gyuto then Birds Beak



## jessf

I picked up some 1084 steel, 5/32"x2"x24", and I'm hoping I can get three blades out of it. I'm going to start with the Nakiri, then move on to the Gyuto and if there's enough material left I'll do some variation on a bird's beak paring knife. I'd like to heat treat this on my own this time instead of sending out and I've read that 1084 is good to play around with. I'd also like to try some anvil work, but I'll need an anvil. 

I picked up 35lbs of tool steel at the local Metal Supermarkets and I intend on turning this into a small knife smith anvil. 




First thing to do is drill a hardy hole which will also serve as a pritchel hole should I ever need one. I drilled a 1/2" hole to a depth of 1.5" and will bore it out to 1". The hole will remain round and will accept any little tools or forms I need to make cut from 1" round stock. I don't really need either the pritchel or the hardy hole for this project, but I'm thinking down the road and I'd like to get as many items added before I heat treat it. I will also cross drill two holes at either end so I can secure the anvil to a large stump or block of wood.


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## smokeyrojito

I like this.


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## jessf

I set the anvil aside for a night and worked on a few handle parts. I want to try some dear antler, I've had a piece for a very long time and it's about time I had a use for it. I drilled out the porous center and will do a passthrough dowel. 




I'm using grey elm for this particular handle so I'll need a grey elm dowel. Since the grey elm dowel store was closed I figured I could make my own. I chucked up a piece of elm into my lathe/drill press and fashioned a dowel slightly larger than 9/16"




I then passed the rough dowel through a 9/16" die I made by drilling my 9/16" bit through a piece of scrap D2 steel left over from the honesuki. Two holes on either side of the 9/16" provide the cutting edge.




End result is a custom dowel with a nice snug fit. I'll stabilize the dowel as I have the handle blank.


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## PolishAvenger

Lookin' good! 1084 is a great steel to forge, and its ease of heat treat can't be beaten. I, too, use a chunk of steel as my anvil (although mine weighs about 450 lbs), and I went about making my own tooling to suit a drilled hole as well, it'll work just fine. Remember to break the edges all the way around on the face you use for forging. If you leave the sharp corners, you'll be pounding lines into your blades.
-Mark


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## jessf

I didn't consider the lines. Good idea. Is there value in leaving one edge while knocking off the rest? I may knock all the corners off slightly to prevent fingernail cracking during heat treating.


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## PolishAvenger

Shouldn't hurt....you'll just need to be mindful when you're forging. If you need a 90 degree sharp angle, though, you could always make one to put into your pritchel.
-Mark


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## jessf

Ahh. Good point. Best to ensure the success of the anvil first then make tools to fill the needs as they come.

QUOTE=PolishAvenger;411303]Shouldn't hurt....you'll just need to be mindful when you're forging. If you need a 90 degree sharp angle, though, you could always make one to put into your pritchel.
-Mark[/QUOTE]


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## jessf

did a bit more work. This time on the handles. All the wood has been treated and left to dry. I've focussed my efforts on the grey elm and dear antler tonight. I'm going for a variation on the d-style. 


























You can't see it as the harsh light washes it out, but the antler has a decent amount of grey in it. I'll be dying the elm a grey colour to compliment the grey in the antler. In the end I want this to look like a sun bleached piece of driftwood.


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## jessf

Tried adding graphite powdered to danish oil and got some darkening of the grain. I'll search the local art store for some powder dyes to help the finish along.


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## Cutting_Edge

Wow! I like that a LOT!!! Some silver spacers or maybe an end cap might make it pop a bit more. I love the shape and the look.


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## Matus

This is really cool and very interesting to me as I plan to make the first WA handle soon. Just a quick question - did you cut a slot in the dowel prior to gluing the handle, or will you just drill it once the handle is finished?

EDIT: Just one more question - what glue do you use to glue the handle together?

thanks


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## jessf

I cut the slot in the dowel before assembly, yup. Since this particular handle has the dowel exposed at the choil area I cut the slot right to the end and stuck a wedge in there to keep it tight while the epoxy cured. I can drill out the wedge when it's time to fit the blade. I used 60min 2 part epoxy.

I fabrication tip: once the handle is clamped and the epoxy curing, turn the whole assembly upside down so the ferrule faces the ground. Any excess epoxy will flow to the end of the ferrule where it's easily cleaned out when you widen the tang slot. This will help to keep your hidden tang slot free of excess epoxy. Also, try not to use too much epoxy.


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## jessf

A bit more colour and I think it's done.


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## Matus

Thanks, that handle looks great.


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## jessf

Needs more cowbell. And more heat. I wanted to see how much heat I could get with an open fire and a leaf blower. I got a lot of heat but could do much better with less open space. I think I'll need to make a smaller forge with side walls to concentrate the heat.


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## Matus

Do I understand it right that you first cut approximate size of the knife (a blank) from the steel and then forge it to shape? That is an interesting approach.


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## Godslayer

jessf said:


> A bit more colour and I think it's done.



Looks amazing. Needs a spacer though to really get to that next level. Awesome shape as well.


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## jessf

Ha, spacer.



Godslayer said:


> Looks amazing. Needs a spacer though to really get to that next level. Awesome shape as well.


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## jessf

That is correct. The width of the stock material limited my blade height to 50mm and under and I want just slightly over 50mm when sharp. I also wanted to try shaping the rough profile before I take it to the belt sander. Also just wanted to see what would happen.



Matus said:


> Do I understand it right that you first cut approximate size of the knife (a blank) from the steel and then forge it to shape? That is an interesting approach.


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## Matus

I have the same problem - few steel are avaiable wider than 50 mm (for us stock removal guys) - at least here in DE.


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## jessf

another night of progress. In spite of the rain I was able to get a decent amount of heat. I used a concrete block drilled with holes as the base and blew with a leaf blower into the cavity. It's the ****. Definitely needed more cow bell.













trim to shape




and a glimpse of what it will look like when handled. I can start grinding the bevels next week.


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## Matus

I really like what you are doing here


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## youkinorn

That antler handle :Ooooh:


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## Payton2634

Thanks for doing this great walkthrough!


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## jessf

it's a fun process. More like a stumble-through. 
Next four day schedule:
day 1 - grind bevels tonight, add makers mark
day 2 - weather permitting, heat treat tomorrow (sacrifice goat to heat treat gods),
day 3 - finish edge, ferric chloride bath and initial polish,
day 4 - finish polish and fit handle.


Payton2634 said:


> Thanks for doing this great walkthrough!


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## jessf

Initial grinding complete with touch mark. 1084 abrades much faster than D2.




I find this to be a much better version than my first touch mark on my honesuki. Better proportioned.


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## jessf

I may have broke photobucket


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## jessf

Shiza. Just realized I need to normalize this before applying the clay. Ok, almost got ahead of myself.


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## Matus

Cool  The good thing is you realised that before you qunched the blade 

May I ask what tool/technique you use to put your mark on the blade? Arguably, it is not my main issue in the knifemaking at the moment, but eventually I may want to put some sort of mark on the blade and so I am curios about how that can be done.


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## jessf

I made two chisels from D2 for my honesuki project.


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## Matus

Thanks, indeed, I completely forgot. What hardness do those Chisels have? This would be the most interesting route for me too (using chisels, that is)


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## jessf

No idea. Harder than unhardened d2 I know that much. 



Matus said:


> Thanks, indeed, I completely forgot. What hardness do those Chisels have? This would be the most interesting route for me too (using chisels, that is)


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## jessf

Forge has moved inside for the normalizing and heat treating


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## jessf

It didn't crack! File test seemed to prove it hardened. Now it's time for the temper.


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## jessf

hardness test after the temper. scratches on the spine and skating on the edge. 






removed some scale with 180 sandpaper and I think.....I see a hamon...?


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## Godslayer

Toss me down for a honyaki bird's beak if you ever decide to go pro craftsmen. ***** awesome stuff, get to polishing.


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## jessf

Thanks for the props!....but I won't be putting my skin in the game. Just here to learn and be on my way.



Godslayer said:


> Toss me down for a honyaki bird's beak if you ever decide to go pro craftsmen. ***** awesome stuff, get to polishing.


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## andre s

why am i just paying attention now? this is great. 
there are some trustworthy hardness chisels out there if you're curious.
spankin hot handle too


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## jessf

So a night of sharpening polishing and handle fitting. A test fit. I did a test dip if ferric chloride and there is definitely a hamon. But I also realized I need to keep polishing the scratches out before I'll get a good finish. I'll have to pick this up next week.


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## Matus

I would love to hear how you finish (sand) the blade. I am in the same process with one kitchen knife.


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## jessf

It's a combination of wet stones and belt sander. I use a 220 stone then progress to 800 and in doing so reveal the deep scratches, then go back to the sander and take them out, then go back to 220 and then to 800. Once all the scratches at 800 are gone I move on to 1200 and so on.


The Honesuki had its own challenges, like flattening the back. The angular geometry of the honesuki lended well to polishing on flat stones, but the convex grind on the nakiri is proving to be more work if done by hand on flat stones. The double bevel grind on the nakiri was easy to do by hand on the sander, but the polishing might have to be done on a grinding wheel. I could polish and polish and polish but who wants to do that? I got **** to do.



Matus said:


> I would love to hear how you finish (sand) the blade. I am in the same process with one kitchen knife.


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## jessf

few finished shots.


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## jessf

No time a-wasting. First night of the BB and I've cut the basic shape and annealed the steel in order to make it easier to grind. I haven't done that yet with the honesuki or the nakiri. For the nakiri I used the anvil to get the general profile, now I want to see what annealing then grinding is like.


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## Matus

Thanks for all the info. The nakiri looks great. Looking forward to this new project!


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## jessf

It's potato repellent. Click on the photo to watch the video.


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## Mucho Bocho

Jess, looking marvelous. Video didn't post though


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## jessf

Thanks. The video should work if you click on the photo, it will take ypu to photobucket where you can then press play. I wanted to avoid creating a youtube account but I will if photobucket video hosting doesn't work.



Mucho Bocho said:


> Jess, looking marvelous. Video didn't post though


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## jessf

Yeah, if I knew what I was doing. Otherwise, it's a very functional milestone and only my second knife. The heat treat is a bit spotty, but that's easily corrected on the next two.



bryan03 said:


> the hamon is too low, in my opinion, and the edge is not quenched all over.


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## jessf

Good luck to you. In general.


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## jessf

Initial grinding, normalizing and heat treat are done. Just waiting for the temper to finish and I'll see what results I got this time. There will be a lot of hand finishing on this one, for obvious reasons.


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## jessf




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## Godslayer

I have never seen a honyaki birds beak before. Soooooo cool. :knife: can't wait to see her ground up and polished.


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## jessf

That makes two of us. I'm done for the night. Got the handle glued-up. I want to do a different cross section for this handle as well. I kind of like the dull grey look knowing it's going to discolour anyway with use but I will need to hand sand a lot more and put an edge on it.



Godslayer said:


> I have never seen a honyaki birds beak before. Soooooo cool. :knife: can't wait to see her ground up and polished.


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## Godslayer

Might be cool to see a pure k tip on it, right now it looks like it can't decide. Loving this thread by the way.


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## jessf

Thanks. What's a K tip, you'll have to explain.

When I drew it up the length looked too long if I connected the two radii, so I clipped the tip and it felt a bit less hook-like while still having the edge radius I wanted....which is modeled after my thumb.



Godslayer said:


> Might be cool to see a pure k tip on it, right now it looks like it can't decide. Loving this thread by the way.


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## jessf

Handle is done, and a dry fit. Believe it or not, but the perimeter of the handle is the same as the larger nakiri and honesuki. I needed the profile to be smaller or it would dwarf the blade, but also needed it to be large to fit a normal hand. Rounding the back helps make up the perimeter quota as well as accommodating a knuckle grip.


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## Matus

Nice!


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## ecchef

<br>
Lighten up. It's the guy's <em>second</em> knife, using the most basic technology. He did an outstanding job.<br>
Post a picture of the last knife you made so we can compare.


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## jessf

Second knife yup, but first time heat treating. In the end I didn't know what I was looking at until I thought about it. There is another ghostly line further up on the blade, where I had the clay but it doesn't capture well on camera. I switched to the birds beak to help prove to myself what I came to understand about the heat soaking. Now I can start the gyuto and have more confidence in the process. I also learned I need a second burner for the back of the forge. One burner works well with a small knife, but the nakiri was pushing the limits. I can see that now. Thanks for the props!



ecchef said:


> Lighten up. It's the guy's _second_ knife, using the most basic technology. He did an outstanding job.
> Post a picture of the last knife you made so we can compare.


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## fujiyama

Bryan, feel free to post a thread detailing the knives you've made. 

Great work on your part Jess. It must be a good feeling to use a knife you made from start to finish. That's accomplishment! I'm sure you'll have those for many years to come.


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## jessf

Major upgrade at "the forge". To the tune of 36" of ABS


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## jessf

Night one complete.


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## Mucho Bocho

Ohhh, Jess love that profile.


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## Matus

That is one serious blower  The gyuto looks good - reminds me of the Zakuri a bit.


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## jessf

I know I'm guilty of not always reading a thread to completion before posting. That having been said, I always try to before making any form of criticism. Anyway, no harm done. The heat treating part is the most unknown to me. Shaping and designing things is a bit more familiar but of course I'm no expert at that either, just an enthusiast. 

I did use the nakiri all weekend to prep root veggies and it still has a razor sharp edge. Practically speaking that's a pretty good start.



bryan03 said:


> i can if you want. but the admin and other knifemaker here doesn't want.
> 
> of course it's good for a first blade, but I did not know it was a first....
> but I'm not to say it's great if that was not. I think it is important to progress, to show where are the imperfections.


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## jessf

Initial grinding complete. On to the heat treat.


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## jessf

I think I got the heat treat right, but initial grinding and a dip will tell the tail. I was anble to get the handle ready for final sanding while the blade tempered in the oven.

Also the blade did warp a bit during the heat treat a gradual curve but I was able to straighten it out while still hot so I think all is good. Handle is blackwood and bubinga.


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## jessf

Grind off the scale and check for hamon with CF. Looks like I got some decent results.


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## DanHumphrey

Jess, this is amazing! Let me know if you ever want to make one for someone else.


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## jessf

Thanks for the consideration but I'm just doing my own thing. I may actually give this one to a client putting a commercial kitchen into their office space. Figured that would be a cool surprise. I don't actually need it.



DanHumphrey said:


> Jess, this is amazing! Let me know if you ever want to make one for someone else.


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## mr drinky

Nice work Jess. Cool thread. 

k.


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## jessf

Working through the finishing and a test fit.


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## fujiyama

Damn! That's turning into a desirable gyuto.


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## jessf

One I made in 4 nights next to the one I waited 8 months for. Hummm.


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## Godslayer

8 months one has a mosaic pin if that makes you feel any better. :knife:


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## jessf

No, not really. Oh well. Had I not bought it I would not have thought it possible to make my own and the rest is documented here.

I'm gonna make some mosaic pins just to have encase I do a full tang style. 



Godslayer said:


> 8 months one has a mosaic pin if that makes you feel any better. :knife:


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## Godslayer

You can put a pin into a wa handle. I know I've seen that before from karl. It would also be cool in an endcap.


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## Matus

Jess, how much time do you have for knifemaking? The speed with witch you are progressing is very far from what I am able to achieve in my free time  And that gyuto looks great - what geometry did you put on the blade?


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## Mucho Bocho

Impressive Jess


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## jessf

I keep a photo record so I can go back and see when I start and finish. Looks like 2.5hrs a night for 4 nights, starting Monday. The knife still needs a bit more work before I mount the handle so I'd say another 2.5 hours and it's complete. My week nights are free to about 9:45pm so I take full advantage. I put the ear protection on and disappear into my head for a while. I saw ceramic belts at my local Lowes and figured I'd give them a try, made a huge difference and cut at least a night off finishing. Only downside is they only go to 120 grit, so the rest is by hand. I try to stack tasks so I'm not wasting time. For instance, the heat treating took only 15mins to heat the blade and quench, but then an hour to temper, so in that hour I cut the handle from the glued block I made a few weeks back. I know from glued block to octagonal blank only took 45mins as I still had to wait 15 mins for the timer on the stove to chime.

The blade cross section is the same, or close to it, as the nakiri, which I believe is a "workhorse" grind. I thin and flatten this out to a more wedge like grind at about 1/3 from the tip so I can do finer slicing with the tip and root chopping with the heal area. In general though, the grind in convex.



Matus said:


> Jess, how much time do you have for knifemaking? The speed with witch you are progressing is very far from what I am able to achieve in my free time  And that gyuto looks great - what geometry did you put on the blade?


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## Matus

Thanks. That is not bad at all time-wise. Please keep posting your upcoming projects.


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## jessf

gave her the old in-out.
























I've been dreaming up a western handle style. I'll start a new thread for that one.


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## Godslayer

If you told me that gyuto was a catchside I'd believe you. Killing it. If you ever need a tester before going commercial you let me know. :viking:


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## jessf

Hey that's quite the compliment! And maybe insulting to Mr. Catchside. Lol



Godslayer said:


> If you told me that gyuto was a catchside I'd believe you. Killing it. If you ever need a tester before going commercial you let me know. :viking:


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## Matus

You really did a very nice work there. So - how does the gyuto cut?


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## Godslayer

I said looks like,I'm sure his cute better lol. If you told me the first pic was a san mai catchside mighty gyuto I'd of believed you. It really is impressive. I'm half tempted to say your my currently most watched Canadian knife maker, which is kindof sad lol.


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## jessf

Only victims so far are paper and potatoes. It won't get a true workout this week but I will report back. I can say that my potato test yielded the same results as the nakiri in that there was no sticking. Doesn't surprise me as I wanted the grind in the heal area to match the nakiri. I think the real test for me will be using the tip for finer work. Tip might be too thick or too thin, I dunno. I doubt it's too thin.



Matus said:


> You really did a very nice work there. So - how does the gyuto cut?


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## jessf

Wait, i should have said


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## jessf

Seemed to work as I hoped. Handles chopping and slicong frozen ginger with more authority than any other knife I've used, apart from my nakiri. I prefer the thicker profile to the laser thin profile of my Neeman chef.


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