# Stock scum



## spoiledbroth (Jan 20, 2017)

The scum you get when making stock, primarily thinking meat here...

Which do you do? How come?

Skimmer? Strainer (boil and strain, kinda Asian in my estimation)? 

Don't care? 

I used to enjoy skimming (err at home not at work) but now I think it's pretty damn easy to bring to a boil and then strain. I read somewhere this is pretty common along with some seasoning techniques to reduce what many Asian people perceive as gaminess in chicken, beef, pork. Don't quote me on this it was from a little blog.


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## valgard (Jan 20, 2017)

I use a skimmer when I am in the mood and have time to enjoy the kitchen. If I have a lot to do I just strain afterwards and be done with it, it's not as much fun and creates some cleaning but It get's the job done and my Pho (I mostly make Pho ga) comes out clear enough.


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## DamageInc (Jan 20, 2017)

I use a spoon.

Forks don't work too well.


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## boomchakabowwow (Jan 20, 2017)

if i need a clear broth, i do an initial boil rinse everything and start the boil over with fresh water.

if not, i just let it go.


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## WildBoar (Jan 20, 2017)

I skim. You can reduce the occurrence by rinsing the meat (beef with some blood on it makes a ton of scum).


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## JayGee (Jan 20, 2017)

Classic jewish way (for chicken soup anyway) is to boil the chicken for a short time - until the scum comes up, then ditch the water, wash the meat thoroughly, and start again.


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## daveb (Jan 20, 2017)

Saw the title, thought we were dealing with spammers again. Relief.

I usually use a spoon or ladle.


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## NO ChoP! (Jan 21, 2017)

Bring the protein and water temp up to just below boiling. Drain and rinse. Fill with cold water and veg. Scum will eventually breakdown and cause cloudiness, murkiness and an off color. Clarity is vidal in good stock making.


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## panda (Jan 21, 2017)

what no choppi said, but then skim with a large ladle once you refill with water and bring to simmer.


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## Chef_ (Jan 21, 2017)

skim with ladle . strain through chinois


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## jessf (Jan 21, 2017)

Yeah i was tought that not skimming caused cloudy broth. Hard to say otherwise as i always skim broth so i don't know the outcpme of not doing it.


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## Lars (Jan 21, 2017)

I have a skinning spoon though I'm not quite sure if that's the correct term.
Really just a ladle with a net instead of a cup. Works alright. Mostly I make stock in a pressure cooker and strain afterwards.

Lars


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 21, 2017)

NO ChoP! said:


> Bring the protein and water temp up to just below boiling. Drain and rinse. Fill with cold water and veg. Scum will eventually breakdown and cause cloudiness, murkiness and an off color. Clarity is vidal in good stock making.



RIGHT


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## MontezumaBoy (Jan 21, 2017)

+1 to NoChop! and Mucho 

If you absolutely need crystal clear why not just clarify your cloudy stock ... obviously it adds several steps which take more time then if you had followed the time honored skim, skim, skim ... but even with those steps sometimes you turn your back and you are boiling away which guarantee's a loss of clarity ... I clarify about 1/4 of the stock(s) I make just because I want them super clean (all get the skim, skim, skim approach). Maybe a chef/pro can help here (NO Chop! ?). FWIW - there is a certain amount of loss in volume, flavor and gelatin with clarification though.

Just because it was mentioned - pressure cooker forms of bone broth (or stock) are yummy, quick and clarity can be quite good if you follow basic steps (i.e. blanching and don't over do it time wise).

TjA


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## TheCaptain (Jan 21, 2017)

Ok, not a pro here. But if you bring the protein and water up to just below boiling then dump the water aren't you throwing a lot of flavor away?

I'm wondering how it gets done. Think Jewish Matzo ball soup from an authentic New York Deli. Clearest broth I've ever seen but loaded with chicken flavor. I have never been able to make a chicken broth that flavorful (and mine is muddy as hell). There's a saying around here "Ugly as homemade soup".


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## cheflivengood (Jan 21, 2017)

In my experience its actually more important to get rid of fat than "scum". But since they are all on the surface you get rid of both naturally. The Milky cloudiness of tonkotsu ramen is because of the high amount of fat present and the high agitation of the water (close to boil). Starting your stock with raw protien yields clearer stock as the albumen clarifies kind of like using a raft for consume. Heavily roasted stocks tend to be more cloudy because the crispy char dissolves in water. If you want roasted color and clarity do 50/50 raw product to roasted product. I have blanched for white chicken bouillon (a joel robuchon recipe for a ex-executive robuchon chef) and not blanched and I can achieve the exact same outcome without the chefs noticing. A cool technique I learned for a consume clear broth is actually to just cover the raw product with water and to boil for 5 minutes while scimming all the fat off then shock with ice to kill the boil fast. You do this 3 times and after the third be careful to not go over a simmer. It was for a consume and it wouldn't need rafting if it was done correctly.


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## WildBoar (Jan 21, 2017)

Pretty sure there won't be much flavor in the water yet, as the chicken has barely started cooking.

I hope I don't get slammed for this, but one way to get really flavorful broth is to use a butt-load of chicken and cook it until you've wrung the flavor out of the meat, and then cook new pieces of chicken in the broth for the meat you will serve in the soup. I don't know if many pro operations do this, but I have seen it done by a few to great effect, and even used that method at home a few times.


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## cheflivengood (Jan 21, 2017)

WildBoar said:


> Pretty sure there won't be much flavor in the water yet, as the chicken has barely started cooking.
> 
> I hope I don't get slammed for this, but one way to get really flavorful broth is to use a butt-load of chicken and cook it until you've wrung the flavor out of the meat, and then cook new pieces of chicken in the broth for the meat you will serve in the soup. I don't know if many pro operations do this, but I have seen it done by a few to great effect, and even used that method at home a few times.



Yes, The best chicken broths I have made are with whole chickens, not bones. Whole chickens, extra chicken feet, extra chicken necks


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## panda (Jan 21, 2017)

best for flavor is gonna be with both roasted carcass and raw whole chickens.


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## spoiledbroth (Jan 21, 2017)

While on the topic of clarifications, are we all aware of the gel clarification technique? It's sorta new ish

And skimming does not yield anytjing approaching a consomme which is what I think of when I think of a clear broth

According to McGee, bones can be simmered up to 48 hours and still yielding amino acids etc. However. According to This, the scum only exists for a very brief initial cooking time, after which much of what you skin will actually be just frothed up stock, you can do this indefinitely until you have nothing left (this is the proof). So now I don't think you are losing much boiling and then draining. It is what is taught in cooking school here (boil dump then simmer) but it is sort of a time consuming method and I think old school chefs would be of the view it's wasteful.

I only ever cook bouilli (stock meat) for one hour. This way I can take it out and eat it. Because otherwise very wasteful and it tend to break down after that point and cloud the stock.


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## Mrmnms (Jan 21, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> RIGHT



I remember you and I having a chat about this years ago Dennis. Just emptied my pm's


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## MontezumaBoy (Jan 21, 2017)

cheflivengood said:


> A cool technique I learned for a consume clear broth is actually to just cover the raw product with water and to boil for 5 minutes while scimming all the fat off then shock with ice to kill the boil fast. You do this 3 times and after the third be careful to not go over a simmer. It was for a consume and it wouldn't need rafting if it was done correctly.



Thx chef ... will give this a shout next time ... I have certainly de-fatted (word ?) with ice but nothing quite like this.


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## daveb (Jan 21, 2017)

Had to post this. A friend and I were comparing notes on chick stock. She was using wings for gelatin.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 21, 2017)

Dave looks like she got the finger?


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## panda (Jan 21, 2017)

put a calamari ring on it


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## paulraphael (Jan 22, 2017)

Blanching the meat / bones is always standard practice with white stocks. They release a ton of scum. If the meat / bones are roasted, there's much less scum to deal with.

Others have mentioned pressure cookers. I don't make stock any other way anymore. 1/3 to 1/4 the time, better flavor, much better aroma, and much better clarity, without skimming.

A trick to improve clarity in pressure-cooked stocks is to include some raw ground meat (if you're using browned meat and bones, leave about 10% of it raw). This is counter-intuitive, but it actually works much like the egg-white raft in a traditional consommé. But does so without thinning the flavor. You can use this technique in a conventional stock too, by adding the raw meat a little later in the cook (I haven't tried this). 

If you need crystal clarity, you can do agar clarification. It's a bit of a pain, but not so bad if you only have to do small quantities. It's much more effective than traditional consommé, and tastes better. It's less time-consuming than gelatin clarification, and doesn't remove all the gelatin.


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## Mrmnms (Jan 22, 2017)

daveb said:


> Had to post this. A friend and I were comparing notes on chick stock. She was using wings for gelatin.



I have to do this, just for shock effect!


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## cheflivengood (Jan 22, 2017)

daveb said:


> Had to post this. A friend and I were comparing notes on chick stock. She was using wings for gelatin.



haha. I had a friend tell me a story about how they used to have to clip all the chicken feet finger nails off before use.


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## panda (Jan 24, 2017)

first run, take raw carcasses submerged in water just to the top, bring to just before boil. strain and rinse thoroughly. fill water a little bit above bones. bring to a full boil, skimming as you go. dump COLD water after 30 seconds of boil, keep skimming and reduce heat to low once it starts to bubble gently then throw in your veg and herbs (i like to add bay leaves, coriander seeds, white peppercorns, and fennel seeds for spices). this is what it looks like at that point:






this creates a clear stock to use as a base. after you strain you can then fortify it by adding roasted vegetables and chicken scraps and simmer for another three hours.


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