# Why Masamoto KS and not all the other Masamotos



## Alexec (Oct 16, 2018)

So I just want someone to explain me why people go mad for the Masamoto KS and not all the other versions of Masamoto knives?


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## panda (Oct 16, 2018)

the profile is magical


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## Alexec (Oct 16, 2018)

panda said:


> the profile is magical


Isnt it the same as KK, KI, KA even HS and all those?


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## panda (Oct 16, 2018)

no


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## Alexec (Oct 16, 2018)

panda said:


> no


Alright thank you @panda. 
That's all?


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## panda (Oct 16, 2018)

and aggressive taper, plus the steel is the easiest to sharpen out of any mass produced knife. has really good fit & finish, even comes with a rounded spine.


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## HRC_64 (Oct 16, 2018)

KS is obviously handmade when you get a hold of one.


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## Alexec (Oct 16, 2018)

Thanks buddies


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## Interapid101 (Oct 16, 2018)

I’m confused. I have a couple KKs and they seem much more “handmade” than my KS gyuto. The KS has a great profile and grind, and I love a lot of things about it, but it definitely lacks the handmade charm of some other Masamotos. Honestly, I think the biggest draw of the KS is the Sabatier-like profile.


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## minibatataman (Oct 17, 2018)

Interapid101 said:


> I’m confused. I have a couple KKs and they seem much more “handmade” than my KS gyuto. The KS has a great profile and grind, and I love a lot of things about it, but it definitely lacks the handmade charm of some other Masamotos. Honestly, I think the biggest draw of the KS is the Sabatier-like profile.


Blasphemy.


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## alterwisser (Oct 17, 2018)

It's all hype! 

Boo me ...


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## minibatataman (Oct 17, 2018)

Tbh it's mainly because this is the profile I learned how to use a knife with. Ive used only sabs since I fell in love with cooking and the only reason I ended up switching to Japanese is because my roll got stolen a few months back.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 17, 2018)

Is this thread discussing the Masamoto KS series of knives or the Masamoto KS _*gyuto*_? I think the OP was asking about the KS series of knives.


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## Alexec (Oct 17, 2018)

I am questioning KS generally. Because when they reentered the market people went crazy. I mean there is a ton of great knives but nobody goes that madd


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 17, 2018)

Alexec said:


> I am questioning KS generally. Because when they reentered the market people went crazy. I mean there is a ton of great knives but nobody goes that madd



Then you are referring to the gyuto, not the KS series of knives which are mainly single bevel traditional knives.

The "frenzy" was due to a combination of scarcity and hype, much like the ridiculous prices that Kato and Shigefusa knives are bringing nowadays.


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## Gjackson98 (Oct 17, 2018)

Here is a visual of the madness.


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## Alexec (Oct 17, 2018)

I still dont get it


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## nopomo (Oct 17, 2018)

Gjackson98 said:


> Here is a visual of the madness. View attachment 44037


That has to be a pricing error. Something more like ¥46,129 would be about normal for that knife—still expensive for what it is.


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## Gjackson98 (Oct 17, 2018)

nopomo said:


> That has to be a pricing error. Something more like ¥46,129 would be about normal for that knife—still expensive for what it is.



Nope, no price error, I have checked with them before, still have the email exchange


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## HRC_64 (Oct 17, 2018)

Alexec said:


> I am questioning KS generally. Because when they reentered the market people went crazy. I mean there is a ton of great knives but nobody goes that madd



This really risks conflating several different issues. At the risk of being reductionist...

1) The KS is a classic knife, obviously different than the HC or VG masamoto series, which is your original question. 
2) Debating if the KS is a "good knife" or "a good knife" for YOU...etc is really different question. 
3) The KS "market" hype. Is totally differnt again, and has nothing really to do with 1 or 2.

The answer key to above. 

1a) KS is handmade, HC etc have lost all traces of handmade over the years...
2a) Do you need this knife? no easy answer in the abstract....fill out the questionaire, start a new thread, etc 
3a) KS was out of production for 3-5 years...hence scarcity, price gougers, flippers etc are par for course


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## HRC_64 (Oct 17, 2018)

Gjackson98 said:


> Nope, no price error, I have checked with them before, still have the email exchange



This is sort of common when things go out of stock, you see it on amazon/ebay all the time.
Its often just a place holder so they don't get bombarded with questions or backorders.


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## Alexec (Oct 17, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> This really risks conflating several different issues. At the risk of being reductionist...
> 
> 1) The KS is a classic knife, obviously different than the HC or VG masamoto series, which is your original question.
> 2) Debating if the KS is a "good knife" or "a good knife" for YOU...etc is really different question.
> ...


I wasnt asking about HC and Vg. Was asking about KK, KA , KI


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## HRC_64 (Oct 17, 2018)

Alexec said:


> I wasnt asking about HC and Vg. Was asking about KK, KA , KI





> "I am questioning KS generally. Because when they reentered the market people went crazy"



The only SKU that went out of production and came back recently was the KS-3124 (wa gyuto).

The KS trad/fish knives are sort of generic benchmarks because they are widely available and plain vanilla.
Those other series of trad knives are all up/downgrades.

Like how the ~30 stocks in the DJIA are "Famous",
not because they are better investments than NASDAQ or S&P stocks,
but simply because they are benchmarks everyon looks at
to see trends, or mark-to-market other assets, etc.

Hope this helps.


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## Silky (Oct 17, 2018)

The knife hype you are talking about was only in regards to the KS gyuto, not necessarily to the entire KS line. The KS gyuto has a unique profile that is well-regarded and shared only by the Swedish stainless line (SW3124) and the white steel honyaki line (HS3124). And with so many people preferring carbon and the honyaki line being basically impossible to get combined with the scarcity of the KS gyutos, you got huge demand with little supply. The other lines don't really have gyutos associated with them as far as I know, and the few that I have seen online a long time ago (a white steel sanmai gyuto and a damascus gyuto) have a much different profile.


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## Alexec (Oct 17, 2018)

Silky said:


> The knife hype you are talking about was only in regards to the KS gyuto, not necessarily to the entire KS line. The KS gyuto has a unique profile that is well-regarded and shared only by the Swedish stainless line (SW3124) and the white steel honyaki line (HS3124). And with so many people preferring carbon and the honyaki line being basically impossible to get combined with the scarcity of the KS gyutos, you got huge demand with little supply. The other lines don't really have gyutos associated with them as far as I know, and the few that I have seen online a long time ago (a white steel sanmai gyuto and a damascus gyuto) have a much different profile.


So they go nuts for SW and HS too??


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## F-Flash (Oct 17, 2018)

SW no, not really.
Honyaki KS, people would probably go crazy for one.


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## Alexec (Oct 17, 2018)

F-Flash said:


> SW no, not really.
> Honyaki KS, people would probably go crazy for one.


Swedish is not really liked i guess. Never used any


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 17, 2018)

Alexec said:


> Swedish is not really liked i guess. Never used any



It's not so much the steel as the geometry. The profile is the same as the shirogami knife, but it is much thicker behind the edge.


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## Alexec (Oct 17, 2018)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> It's not so much the steel as the geometry. The profile is the same as the shirogami knife, but it is much thicker behind the edge.


Yet the edge red and sharpenability?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 17, 2018)

Alexec said:


> Yet the edge red and sharpenability?



The stainless is not as easy to sharpen as the shirogami, but it's not bad.


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## panda (Oct 17, 2018)

I miss my KS


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## Alexec (Oct 18, 2018)

panda said:


> I miss my KS


Buy it again!


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## panda (Oct 18, 2018)

nah, my mario has the same profile and is a much better knife, hehe.


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## Jville (Oct 19, 2018)

Gjackson98 said:


> Here is a visual of the madness. View attachment 44037


Whoever spends 4k on a KS should punch themselves in the face, or wait until they receive the knife, realize they got screwed, and punch the guy who sold it to them...jk, but I will definitely not buy any knives from hocho. Perhaps I would have,maybe, before I saw these crazy KS prices that they've been doing.


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## LucasFur (Oct 19, 2018)

Jville said:


> Whoever spends 4k on a KS should punch themselves in the face, or wait until they receive the knife, realize they got screwed, and punch the guy who sold it to them...jk, but I will definitely not buy any knives from hocho. Perhaps I would have,maybe, before I saw these crazy KS prices that they've been doing.


The rich guy that buys this didn't get rich by being dumb. Hocho is basically playing the lottery to see who buys. 

I had a KS ... its was a great knife. I happen to like taller blades but nobody can deny the grind is really nice. It's just too much of a Suji/Gyuto hybrid for me.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Oct 19, 2018)

panda said:


> nah, my mario has the same profile and is a much better knife, hehe.



W2 steel from Mario is awesome in my opinion. Easy to sharpen and great retention. 
I'm glad you enjoy yours too.


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## panda (Oct 19, 2018)

Marcelo, I don't love the heat treat on it, but it's fine and does take the most keen edge out of all my knives until I get a custom heiji.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Oct 19, 2018)

panda said:


> Marcelo, I don't love the heat treat on it, but it's fine and does take the most keen edge out of all my knives until I get a custom heiji.



Just out of curiosity: what aspect of the heat treat you'd wish it were better?


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## panda (Oct 19, 2018)

Just the feedback on lower grit stones. For some reason there isn't any on coarse, but feels amazing on finisher. Makes it confusing to know when I am done, lol.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Oct 19, 2018)

Alexec said:


> Swedish is not really liked i guess. Never used any



It's funny that i didn't like the feel of the Swedish KS at first, but the combination of (light) weight, heel height and balance grew on me with time.


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## Taramonia (Oct 21, 2018)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> It's funny that i didn't like the feel of the Swedish KS at first, but the combination of (light) weight, heel height and balance grew on me with time.


I got my hands on one for about a week or two. I really did enjoy it and I initially didn't care for how thin it was, but eventually it just wasn't tall enough.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Oct 21, 2018)

Taramonia said:


> I got my hands on one for about a week or two. I really did enjoy it and I initially didn't care for how thin it was, but eventually it just wasn't tall enough.



I would have traded mine initially, but now i feel it belongs to me. I'd like it more if it were a bit taller though.


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## labor of love (Oct 21, 2018)

I’ve enjoyed Marko and kearu more than the KS. And pandas Mario too. There’s something about the KS that makes it a little too extreme for it to be a keeper for me. The newer KS batches are thinner and cut great. Kearu is 50mm tall and maybe 242mm instead of 250mm. It just feels like a more normal gyuto and that “sujihiki feeling” isn’t as evident.
Mario profile is really sweet but there’s going to be some variance because different guys order different custom heights and lengths which seem to change the profile somewhat.
Kearu does have steel that’s heat treated for high durability and does take a little longer to sharpen.


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## Omega (Oct 21, 2018)

@panda Have you used a Gesshin Ginga W2 by chance?

If you did, how did the grind compare to the KS, profile differences aside. 
Sharpenability / feel on stones as well?


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## labor of love (Oct 21, 2018)

Choil shot for new KS batches earlier this year.


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## labor of love (Oct 21, 2018)

Here’s a couple of pics with Marko next to a KS


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## labor of love (Oct 21, 2018)

Here’s Mario next to Marko.


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## mfishsauce (Oct 22, 2018)

Really enjoyed an old stock KS that I acquired, especially with the drastic distal taper. However, eventually the overall height got to me and I had to move on from it


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## panda (Oct 22, 2018)

Omega said:


> @panda Have you used a Gesshin Ginga W2 by chance?
> 
> If you did, how did the grind compare to the KS, profile differences aside.
> Sharpenability / feel on stones as well?


i havent tried a gesshin variant but briefly used an ashi version. grind is meh, but i hate lasers so am biased against them to begin with, lol. steel was nothing special either, but i am also not fan of any sakai made knives so take with grain of salt. (i do like my kono suji in white2 i dont love the steel or grind of it either, lol, it's just a good profile for slicing cooked proteins)
curious, why do you ask in relation to ginga?


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## Omega (Oct 27, 2018)

@panda Mostly just wondering how they compared in your eyes as they’re both monosteel white 2. I have way more experience with Ashi Ginga than the KS, so I just was trying to get a common reference point. 

I can definitely understand- lasers aren’t for everyone.


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## Kippington (Oct 27, 2018)

labor of love said:


>


It just occured to me that your cutting board is freaking huge lol


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## labor of love (Oct 27, 2018)

Oh yeah. Big huge cheap work boards. My knives don’t see the quality boards they deserve unfortunately.


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## labor of love (Oct 27, 2018)

Oh btw the other knife to the left is a Kippington if anybody is curious about comparing profiles.


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