# Jon's One side microbevel and stropping



## gic (Sep 29, 2015)

I looked at Jon's great video (thanks Jon) on this and they seem cool and useful but am a little confused on how this works with my current final stropping using one micron diamond on balsa. Do I strop as usual and then take out a really high grit stone to put the one sided microbevel on? Do I put the microbevel on and then strop on the side that has the microbevel at the microbevel (high) angle? Does this microbevel replace a stropping step?.

TIA


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## cheflivengood (Sep 29, 2015)

Are we talking single bevel knives?


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## Dardeau (Sep 29, 2015)

In my experience there are two types of sharpeners: the strop and compound sharpeners that are looking for the kind of edge that a strop and compound provide, and the microbevel sharpeners that are looking for the kind of edge a microbevel provides. If you put a microbevel on a highly stropped edge you no longer have a super polished edge, conversely if you heavily strop a microbevel, you run the risk of polishing it away.

I am a microbevel, no strop guy but if I were to strop I would do so lightly and briefly at the angle of the microbevel to clean it up but have never found a need to do so.


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## cheflivengood (Sep 29, 2015)

Dardeau said:


> In my experience there are two types of sharpeners: the strop and compound sharpeners that are looking for the kind of edge that a strop and compound provide, and the microbevel sharpeners that are looking for the kind of edge a microbevel provides. If you put a microbevel on a highly stropped edge you no longer have a super polished edge, conversely if you heavily strop a microbevel, you run the risk of polishing it away.
> 
> I am a microbevel, no strop guy but if I were to strop I would do so lightly and briefly at the angle of the microbevel to clean it up but have never found a need to do so.



lus1:


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## gic (Sep 29, 2015)

I was especially interested in it for fairly asymmetric knives (80/20 and 70/30) but also for any two sided knife where I brought the angle down to close to the steel's limit. More generally I was thinking of them for high HRC knives.

I like a diamond strop for the final "toothyness" it gives to a edge finished on a higher grit stone, but I like the idea of a microbevel when the main angle on the knive is really low to strengthen it.

Was hoping to combine the two and thus achieve true happiness


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## Benuser (Oct 11, 2015)

A microbevel is used to allow a thinner geometry behind the edge than it would otherwise admit. I use microbevels with both with soft and hard steel types. A single sided microbevel will not change the geometry, but contributes highly to edge retention.


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## Benuser (Oct 11, 2015)

And I still don't understand the idea of stropping with some compound to re-establish some bite. Better skip some intermediate stones or only deburr on them.


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## mkriggen (Oct 12, 2015)

On the edges that I use a microbevel, I'll do a final strope on newspaper just to clean up the edge.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 17, 2015)

Gyuto's are not single bevel tho there maybe a few exceptions to the rule. Have run into some sharpeners that like to sharpen on just one side. This can weaken the edge on a DB knife. I think what Jon is showing you do the lower thinning bevel on both sides and the micro on the cutting side only. The micro will create a burr on the backside of blade, burr removal is at the lower angle instead of the higher as in normal sharpening.

Usually do a quick lateral lite sweep on the stone for burr removal any residual couple light sweeps on newspaper.


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## chinacats (Oct 17, 2015)

Mostly agree with what's been said...I'd recommend finishing with a microbevel and refreshing that when necessary with your strop.


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## Boynutman (Oct 18, 2015)

Interesting thread!



keithsaltydog said:


> Gyuto's are not single bevel tho there maybe a few exceptions to the rule. Have run into some sharpeners that like to sharpen on just one side. This can weaken the edge on a DB knife. I think what Jon is showing you do the lower thinning bevel on both sides and the micro on the cutting side only. The micro will create a burr on the backside of blade, burr removal is at the lower angle instead of the higher as in normal sharpening.
> 
> Usually do a quick lateral lite sweep on the stone for burr removal any residual couple light sweeps on newspaper.



So is there a specific reason to do the microbevel on the cutting side? (I am assuming that on a right handed knife this means that the micro bevel would be on the left hand side). Is this for steering reasons? Or is this just to make sure you are consistent on where you put the micro bevel so that you do not forget on which side it is? Or perhaps some other reason?
So far I have put it on the other (rh) side with a trailing edge stroke - because I feel more confident in my consistency of holding an angle on the rh side, and because on the other side the edge bites into the stone more quickly. But perhaps I am sacrificing performance by doing so?

Thanks!


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 20, 2015)

Your right handed knife has micro on the right side, most japan gyuto's are ground with more bevel on right side. Prefer to put micro on both sides though some like it just on one side just different techniques of sharpening.


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## Boynutman (Oct 21, 2015)

Thanks. I have noticed that with sharpening subtle things can make a real difference, and without much experience it can be hard to figure out what really matters or what is just a different technique. Which made me wonder about this. Appreciate your feedback!


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## Yamabushi (Oct 21, 2015)

A lot of good advice and information above! FWIW, I microbevel my semi-stainless Heiji gyuto on a Ai-Iwatani awasedo and then after stropping on the stone, strop on newspaper like mkriggen.


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## goatgolfer (Oct 22, 2015)

Dardeau said:


> In my experience there are two types of sharpeners: the strop and compound sharpeners that are looking for the kind of edge that a strop and compound provide, and the microbevel sharpeners that are looking for the kind of edge a microbevel provides. If you put a microbevel on a highly stropped edge you no longer have a super polished edge, conversely if you heavily strop a microbevel, you run the risk of polishing it away.
> 
> I am a microbevel, no strop guy but if I were to strop I would do so lightly and briefly at the angle of the microbevel to clean it up but have never found a need to do so.



I have been puzzling on this (Dr Seuss talk) as I am now at the stage of sharpening to pick a "final" style for my edges. ChefLarge showed me a polished/honed/stropped edge technique that was highly enlightening (and cool on top of it). I don't want to make assumptions on @Dardeau's point of departure. What are the advantages of the two finishing styles - stropped v microbevel for a gyuto double bevel home use Jknife?


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## Benuser (Oct 22, 2015)

I assume you presuppose rounding the edge when stropping?


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## rick alen (Oct 23, 2015)

Over the years what I have gleaned from various articles is that edge-leading strokes will leave a truncated edge, and stropping then refines that edge.

I haven't tried it yet, but I would speculate that after putting in your one-sided bevel with an edge-leading stroke, your would flip and finish the opposite side by stropping, removing just enough material to refine the edge.

Ah or maybe you strop the other side, or both sides. Forgive me if I sound wishywashy here.

I think, in all seriousness, the ultimate goal of stropping is to refine the edge by reducing truncation as much as possible (don't believe anyone would argue that), however it turns out you find that may best be done.

Then what do you do with such a highly refined edge?

I don't think they hold up to board work well, but there is always sashimi, and for myself I do like fine-slicing onions in hand (I find I have better control that way for getting sub-1mm slices). And of course there is shaving.

So I'd have to say that along with how to get the super refined edge there is the other question that goes along with it- what are you going to do with it that you really need it for?


Rick (don't take me too serious I have some time to kill)


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 24, 2015)

Do not want to sound like grade school :whistling: Once you have an even burr heel to tip, your two edges are meeting. removing the burr less is more & lite touch. Steady angle is also important same as your micro. 

Been using one second lateral sweep on stone to remove burr many years mostly on carbons, works with quality stainless too. Spine integrity is a must. Finish any residue with newspaper. Do not thoughtlessly wail away on newsprint either. One light sweep for heel part. If you have your blade at correct angle if you push the newspaper flat you will notice the sweeping curve to the tip is not in contact with the paper. So you have to do a light tip sweep as well. Once on each side heel sweep & tip sweep is enough. And you don't screw up your micro bevel. As can happen trying to over do burr removal.


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