# Which Sujihiki should I buy



## jacko9 (Jan 2, 2016)

LOCATION
What country are you in? USA



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Sujihiki
Are you right or left handed?
Right
Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese Octagon
What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
270mm
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
no preference
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
500


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home cook
What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing meats
What knife, if any, are you replacing?
10" Henckel Slicer
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
just learning to use pinch grip
What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
slicing
What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
edge retention, sharpness, ability to cut thin slices
Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
none
Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
good balance and more to the stiff side
Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
good food release
Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
a few meals


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no)
Yes, end grain maple
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
yes
If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
No


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS I already have a T-F 240mm Nashiji Gyuto, Konosuke HD2 240mm Gyuto, Konosuke Fujiyama B2 210mm Gyuto, 12" carbon steel chefs knife, and a lot of German knives.


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## DamageInc (Jan 3, 2016)

You can spend the remainder of your budget on a custom handle if you want.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/toyama-noborikoi-kasumi-sujihiki-270mm/


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## jacko9 (Jan 3, 2016)

DamageInc said:


> You can spend the remainder of your budget on a custom handle if you want.
> 
> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/toyama-noborikoi-kasumi-sujihiki-270mm/



Do you happen to know what grade of Blue Steel? Is there any reviews of this blacksmith, I unfamiliar with his work?

Thanks,

Jack


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## chiffonodd (Jan 3, 2016)

G Ginga 270 w2. Been eyeing this one for a long time. Always reckoned the thinner grind woukd make a fantastic slicer. Would maybe not "part" looser meats like brisket as well as something with a bit more convexity, but should make up for it with sheer cutting ability and lack of friction due to shorter height. This one's got my vote:

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...ducts/gesshin-ginga-270mm-white-2-wa-sujihiki


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## jacko9 (Jan 3, 2016)

Thanks chiffonodd, that's a great looking knife, I'll keep that one on my list to consider. I do like a shorter knife since I do have three Gyuto's and the Konosuke HD2 240 is probably good for brisket. I just haven't smoked a brisket since I got the Kono.

Jack


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## DamageInc (Jan 3, 2016)

jacko9 said:


> Do you happen to know what grade of Blue Steel? Is there any reviews of this blacksmith, I unfamiliar with his work?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jack



I don't know if it is Blue 1, 2, or Super. But I do know that the smith is very skilled in his steel of choice. He has been making knives for many years and is quite good at it to say the least. His knives are fantastic cutters with great f&f. In my opinion, Toyama Noborikoi hits the sweet spot dead center when it comes to price/performance.

I myself own the 300mm suji and a 240mm gyuto and they are easily two of my favorite knives. Do some searching on the forum and you will find a fair bit of praise from other members as well.


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## jacko9 (Jan 3, 2016)

Thank you I will keep your recommendation on my list to consider.


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## brainsausage (Jan 3, 2016)

I'll hop on the Toyama bandwagon. His heat treat on my Gyuto is stellar. I believe he works with blue 2 btw. That being said- my JNS Kato suji is one of THE best knives I've used. Just has that X factor. Steel, grind, profile- all excellent. Feels great in hand and on the board. The hard part is tracking one down... I'd spring for the Toyama personally. And if it for some reason it doesn't suit your needs, you shouldn't have a problem re-selling through the forum.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 3, 2016)

Does he offer saya's for the Toyama blades?


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## leansmancave (Jan 3, 2016)

Sukenari's ZDP suji should fit the bill nicely. I am quite happy with mine.

Lean


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## Chicagohawkie (Jan 3, 2016)

You should jump on that Kato that taghuer is selling!


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## daveb (Jan 3, 2016)

You may want to consider what kind of slicing in your selection.

I'm a little suji stupid with a couple three. A thin stainless is very good on raw protein but not ideal for crusted meats. A clad stainless has a little more ass to it and is good with larger raw and most cooked protien. A carbon with some heft is good on most anything. For brisket my favourite suji is my Cuisinart electric.


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## easy13 (Jan 3, 2016)

I Got a Kochi 270 Suji recently and it is a hell of blade. Beautiful F&F along with overall aesthetics, V2 steel has your back on solid edge retention and great grind on it. Real nice knife, decent price, one of the few Kochis left on the site (last I checked)


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## toddnmd (Jan 4, 2016)

jacko9 said:


> Do you happen to know what grade of Blue Steel? Is there any reviews of this blacksmith, I unfamiliar with his work?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jack



I would guess it's Blue #2 if it's not specified as Blue #1. The suji doesn't have any reviews yet--Toyoma seems like a fairly recent addition to the JNS lineup. There are reviews of various other Toyoma blade types on the JNS site, as well as some feedback on here. It seems like most of the feedback has been quite positive.


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## MontezumaBoy (Jan 4, 2016)

daveb said:


> For brisket my favourite suji is my Cuisinart electric.



+1 since a recent experience in front of some friends so eloquently demonstrated a sharp as "ass" knife is nothing compared to an electric serated ... at times ... but I only ate the yummy bits I cut off with my pretty suji!


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## Twistington (Jan 4, 2016)

Toyama sujihiki, really wellmade piece of steel.


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## jacko9 (Jan 4, 2016)

daveb said:


> You may want to consider what kind of slicing in your selection.
> 
> I'm a little suji stupid with a couple three. A thin stainless is very good on raw protein but not ideal for crusted meats. A clad stainless has a little more ass to it and is good with larger raw and most cooked protien. A carbon with some heft is good on most anything. For brisket my favourite suji is my Cuisinart electric.



Interesting and yes I want this knife for cutting cooked protein with crusted meats and roasted fowl. I gave away my Cuisinart electric so while I thought that I wanted a short (height) knife I guess I need to defer to the pro chefs as to what will work the best.

Thanks,

Jack


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## richard (Jan 5, 2016)

Can someone please elaborate on the superiority of using an electric knife for brisket? Is it the rougher texture of the meat sliced this way that improves perceived flavor, mouthfeel, like that?


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## spoiledbroth (Jan 5, 2016)

daveb is just a weirdo....


in all honesty I think it's something to do with the bark? we don't do alot of legitimate bbq up here so I'm going to refrain from making myself look stupid(er)


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## daveb (Jan 5, 2016)

An electric is not pretty. Not graceful. Not elegant. It does not improve flavor nor mouthfeel. The slices will be neither clean nor uniform.

It will, however, put a lot of meat on a plate right damn now. And that is what brisket is all about.


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## spoiledbroth (Jan 5, 2016)

daveb said:


> It will, however, put a lot of meat on a plate right damn now. And that is what brisket is all about.


bahaha! Oh, of course. Now this answer seems self-evident and truly (in the eyes of an outsider) in the spirit of barbeque.


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## daveb (Jan 5, 2016)

@stinkysoup 

Heard. Thank you.

Smiley


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## brainsausage (Jan 6, 2016)

Might as well just use the electric across the board if that's the game plan. Hell- Might as well just eat outta cans that were carved open with calphalon shaped santokus!


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## daveb (Jan 6, 2016)

When serving meat before the beer gets warm,

The electric knife becomes the norm.

If dinner includes a glass of wine,

I'll unplug and take my time.

With apologies to every poet, everywhere.


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## chinacats (Jan 6, 2016)

I sure am glad that I enjoy my beer at cellar temp


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 6, 2016)

Here here. Long live Electric knives.


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## CutFingers (Jan 6, 2016)

Forget custom handles and pretty knives. Get the longest blade possible. The whole point of having a slicer is to make a slicing motion through the meats...a shorter blade means more rocking and hacking...longer blade a few saw motions and the meat falls like butter.

Make length of blade a top priority. There is no sense in getting a knife the size of what you already have. Steels are not even so important as long as the blade is sharp. Slicing through proteins does not abrade the blade and edge as quickly as chopping veggies on a board.

Heck I'd say even a vintage 14 inch Sabatier would be a sweet blade...no frills, easy as heck to sharpen and yes it cuts meat well.


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## jacko9 (Jan 6, 2016)

Interesting but sounds like the longer the better as long as I have room on my board. Most Sujihiki's I see offered are 270 - 300mm long and the longer ones are limited in the brands available.


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## richard (Jan 6, 2016)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Here here. Long live Electric knives.



Maybe I'm a little thankful then that when I tried to sell a pass me down, unused electric knife on Craigslist there were no takers


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## jacko9 (Jan 8, 2016)

What is the Forums thought on the Sukenari ZDP-189 Hairline Sujihiki? It seems like a thin knife with a very hard edge that should stay sharp for a very long time (considering if it's handled correctly). Is this knife considered a rugged knife for slicing crusted roasts, etc?


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## spoiledbroth (Jan 8, 2016)

id like to see a review of those zdp stainess clad knives too.


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## jacko9 (Jan 8, 2016)

Ok - I had a great and very informative conversation with Jon today (JKI) so now I'm looking at the Kochi 270mm Kurouchi, the Kagekiyo 270mm White #2 and the Ginga 270mm White #2 Sujihiki's - anybody one here have experience with any of these you would like to share? I like all three knives and would love to hear from anybody with experience using them?


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## brainsausage (Jan 8, 2016)

daveb said:


> When serving meat before the beer gets warm,
> 
> The electric knife becomes the norm.
> 
> ...



Heh! I dunno, I can portion a 6-7# brisket with a 240 gyuto in about 90 seconds, less if I didn't hit the sauce too hard the night before.

That being said- not everything is a a contest. 

And elbow grease definitely runs low at times...


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## spoiledbroth (Jan 8, 2016)

brainsausage said:


> Heh! I dunno, I can portion a 6-7# brisket with a 240 gyuto in about 90 seconds, less if I didn't hit the sauce too hard the night before.
> 
> That being said- not everything is a a contest.
> 
> And elbow grease definitely runs low at times...



you are a professional though n'est pas? :razz: hope we didn't offend you


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## brainsausage (Jan 8, 2016)

spoiledbroth said:


> you are a professional though n'est pas? :razz: hope we didn't offend you



Pro I am. Offended I am never. Quite the opposite. I was more stating the case for an electric. And this thread is officially DERAILED.


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## jacko9 (Jan 9, 2016)

Yes it is ;-)


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## daveb (Jan 9, 2016)

re: Suji. My first choice from Jon's offerings would be the Kagekiyo. Though I would opt for the Ginsanko. Nice mid weight for crusted loins, would slay a turkey. I use mine with friends/family and while I will it down (and sometimes I don't) I don't wa.t to be concerned with the cleaning routine.

And for the same friends/family, if you can make the reach for the "pretty" one, I would. It will only hurt for a little while.

To the subject at hand, I was "reintroduced" to lectric by friends on the competitive BBQ circuit. I initially looked down my knife snob nose at it then reconsidered after flying through Several brisket. Don't use mine often but when I do...


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## jacko9 (Jan 9, 2016)

Dave, I can see that on the BBQ circuit where they have to get the meat off, cut up and turned in at a certain time that speed would be most important. I love watching the BBQ circuit competitions on TV but, I can cut my protein at a more casual pace ;-)

I told Jon that I didn't need Stainless but I have to admit the Kagekiyo Ginmsanko is a pretty attractive knife. I don't have any issues with carbon knives since I'm not in a pro setting and can take my time cleaning on the go.

Jack


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## jacko9 (Jan 9, 2016)

What do people know about the Mutsumi Hinoura Sujihiki Stainless Clad White#2 270 mm - Khii Ebony? I'm totally in the dark about this brand/blacksmith - anybody have an opinion?


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## jacko9 (Jan 11, 2016)

Are there any blacksmiths that fabricate sujihiki's like Shigefusa and Kato?


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## Dardeau (Jan 11, 2016)

I've never used a Kato or Shig suji, but the gyutos are pretty different. What do you want out of this suji?


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## daveb (Jan 12, 2016)

You could have had the Kagekiyo today and been the envy of all the knifenuts here. Me included. And I own a Shig suji.


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## jacko9 (Jan 12, 2016)

daveb said:


> You could have had the Kagekiyo today and been the envy of all the knifenuts here. Me included. And I own a Shig suji.



What did I miss?

J


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## daveb (Jan 12, 2016)

Nothing missed. You talked to Jon a couple days ago, He ships pretty quick. And the package will be beautifully wrapped - if Sara is wrapping...


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## Smurfmacaw (Jan 12, 2016)

I've got a shorty Kato suji and it cuts really well. Thought I'd hate it being only 205mm but for things like chicken or pork tenderloin it's awesome. It makes a good all around knife if you are space limited. If slicing something larger then a longer knife is the ticket.


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## jacko9 (Jan 12, 2016)

How often does the Kato knife become available YOSHIAKI FUJIWARA 270MM SUJIHIKI? This knife and the Gesshin Kagekiyo 270mm White #2 Sujihiki aren't too far off in price when the Ca. sales tax is added to the cost of the Kagekiyo so, I wonder if the Kato is months or years away (assuming that you happen to be sitting at your computer when the email arrives).


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## Andrew (Jan 12, 2016)

I haven't seen a Kato suji for sale in the last few months... 

Not to brag, but as a data point- I bought one new/never used from BST. It's a great knife, really very good looking, nice fit and finish etc. That said, I'm thinking about buying a more laser geared second suji in the next few months, and seriously considering a kagekiyo for that slot. The kato is great, but it's on the thick side all said and done.


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## jacko9 (Jan 12, 2016)

Andrew said:


> I haven't seen a Kato suji for sale in the last few months...
> 
> Not to brag, but as a data point- I bought one new/never used from BST. It's a great knife, really very good looking, nice fit and finish etc. That said, I'm thinking about buying a more laser geared second suji in the next few months, and seriously considering a kagekiyo for that slot. The kato is great, but it's on the thick side all said and done.



Andrew - Jon has two levels of the Kagekiyo brand one slightly more affordable, what are your thoughts about the differences?


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## Andrew (Jan 12, 2016)

I have a 240 ginsanko gyuto, so my sample size is limited to exactly one knife... It's the first real knife I ordered site unseen, and there is nothing to complain about at all, just a perfect knife. (it also taught me there are some things I don't know how to extrapolate from when looking at product details online).

I guess it's hard for me to imagine that you'd regret either purchase, and I have no idea if the extra money would feel justified or not... Are you close enough to Jon's shop to go look?


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## jacko9 (Jan 12, 2016)

No, I'm in Northern Ca about 6 hours away. I really like the look and dimensions of the Kagekiyo White #2 and since I have two other carbon Gyutos I don't see a problem with maintenance.

I wish I was closer so I could drop by and see each of the knives side by side.


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## Andrew (Jan 12, 2016)

Yeah, in retrospect I should have skipped the ginsanko, and gone carbon... live and learn.

Maybe someone can chime in who's seen both? Or call and pick Jon's brain a bit more about the differences?


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## jacko9 (Jan 12, 2016)

When I spoke with Jon, we discussed three knives the Kochi, Ginga and the Kagekiyo. The Kagekiyo has a high end Blue #1 and a high end Stainless Steel in the $600 - $675 dollar range. The newer more accessible line of Kagekiyo has a White #2 and a Stainless Steel model in the $350 - $390 dollar range.

The dimensions are similar with the higher end being a little heavier and fit and finish has more attention to materials and detail.

I think the White #2 might be a good candidate for a home slicer.


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## Andrew (Jan 12, 2016)

You're likely right, and I'd bet up to 1$ that you won't be disappointed with the white #2


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## jacko9 (Jan 13, 2016)

Well Jon helped me make my decision tonight and I have a Gesshin Kagekiyo 270mm White #2 Sujihiki coming my way!

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...ts/gesshin-kagekiyo-270mm-white-2-wa-sujihiki

Thanks for the help in getting to this decision - I'll post a review after I get a chance to use it at home.

Jack


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## chiffonodd (Jan 13, 2016)

jacko9 said:


> Well Jon helped me make my decision tonight and I have a Gesshin Kagekiyo 270mm White #2 Sujihiki coming my way!
> 
> http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...ts/gesshin-kagekiyo-270mm-white-2-wa-sujihiki
> 
> ...



Congrats kagekiyo is on my list, look forward to your thoughts!


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## jacko9 (Jan 19, 2016)

I just got my Gesshin Kagekiyo 270mm Wa-Sujihiki and I am totally impressed with the fit and finish of this knife. The weight and balance are precisely what I was looking for in a slicer and I can't wait to start using it. I'm not sure how to post pictures on here but after figuring it out I show it off for you folks. I have to say that talking with Jon at Japanese Knife Imports sure makes buying a knife a lot easier. It wasn't a short conversation but he did find out what I intended to do with the knife, what experience I had with JKnives and talked over several options to consider. I thought about it over night and called him back to decide between two of those options and now I have the Wa-Sujihiki I was looking for - This has been a very positive experience on this Forum so, Thanks to all that helped.


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## jacko9 (Jan 20, 2016)

GESSHIN KAGEKIYO 270MM WA-SUJIHIKI FROM Japanese Knife Import





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## brainsausage (Jan 20, 2016)

That's a looker! Glad it all worked out for ya. Definitely report back when you've had some time to put it through its paces. Be nice to hear some feedback.


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## jacko9 (Oct 6, 2018)

Ahh two years sure fly by quickly. The Kagekiyo 270 Suji is all that I would have hoped for in a slicer. Since there are only two of us at home most of the time it doesn't get as much use as it would have when the children were younger and lived here but, it has held up incredibly well with just an occasional touch up on my Meara or Kitayama 8K stones or just a few strokes on the strop. If I had it to do over again, I would still go for the Kagekiyo! I've sliced brisket as cooked and for leftovers, smoked turkey, try tip and a whole lot of pork roasts. This knife gives me the control I was looking for (with my amateur skills) and retains the edge very well. I did have Jon sharpen it for me before he shipped it to me new but, it hasn't needed a sharpening progression yet (remember I'm a home cook for my wife and I).


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## Chefgibson (Oct 7, 2018)

All great blades. I would have to agree with going for some length. That being said. I would try the Fujiwara fkh 270. Think they sell for $70ish. Great intro to carbon steel and sujihikis. Then upgrade to something like the toyoma if you feel it suits your needs.


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## jacko9 (Oct 7, 2018)

I bought the Toyama 150 Petty and while it's a great knife it's bit too tall for a petty. I'm sure that the Fujiwara FKH is a very nice knife and I'm hoping you enjoy it.


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## Chefgibson (Oct 8, 2018)

Haha. Just realized I was replying to a 2 year old thread and missed your last comment. My apologies. The kagekiyo I hear are excellent slicers! Sounds like you made a great choice.


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