# Nakiri ideal height?



## Ruso (May 26, 2017)

I am thinking on idea of getting another Nakiri and while looking at the options I noticed that the height can vary quite a bit. There are some very short ones, gyuto/santoku like, and some are on a taller side.

So, what is the more tradition profile?


----------



## khashy (May 26, 2017)

Watanabe is the sexiest of them all. I wish I had one. It's basically the benchmark for all nakiri, so whatever height he does is the ideal height


----------



## TheCaptain (May 26, 2017)

The above +1. I have his 165mm and the blade is 52mm high. It was the first Nakiri, first Kurouchi I owned. It took me some time to learn to love the finish, but it just works. 

Never had a Nakiri before the Wat, but it was the most perfect tool I've ever picked up that just felt right from the first use. With current JPYXUSD rates it's about $215 plus about $40 shipping. So $250ish for a most excellent knife. Well worth it. Now if he'd only up his game on the handles a bit.

I think of a Nakiri as a vegetable cleaver, the extra height gives you leverage especially on thicker veggies. I can't even look at shorter Nakiri profiles without thinking "why?".

Simple home cook here, but I love my Nakiri's. Closing in on a dozen, but the Watanabe is the one DH and I reach for the most (closely followed by the Toyama 180mm Nakiri which is 5mm higher, another amazing knife)


----------



## TheCaptain (May 26, 2017)

Ruso - guess we should ask what do you currently have?


----------



## valgard (May 26, 2017)

my Watanabe 180 is 61mm tall and I love it.

edit: my post on the phone was a mess


----------



## Choppin (May 26, 2017)

My Shig 165mm is 51-52mm tall (actual lenght is 161-162mm). I find it perfect.


----------



## fatboylim (May 26, 2017)

+1 Capt 

Generally 52-58mm is pretty standard for 180mm Nakiri. Any lower and it is getting to 180 Gyuto height for delicate tip work. Any taller and it starts to get into small cleaver range +60mm.

My favourite Nakiri is the Kato Workhorse 180 height about 53mm (from memory) and the Toyama Nakiri 210 at 64mm height. Very different sizes but ideal heights for each length.

Back 15 years ago I had a Global 180mm Nakiri at 45mm height... It's pretty pointless compared to a Gyuto 180.


----------



## zitangy (May 26, 2017)

I am a chop and scoop guy.... Had Ashi Hamono custom made for me at 55 and 60mm in AebL steel. Like them both...

rgds z


----------



## Matus (May 26, 2017)

The taller the better. I love the height on my Toyama 180. If I were geting a 165 I would try to find Masakage Koishi - they should be 60 mm tall.

I do not quite understand why most nakiris are only around 52 mm tall. The 165 balde length is actually enough, but more height is definitely an advantage.


----------



## Ruso (May 26, 2017)

Mine is 53mm at the heel and 55mm at the belly. So it appears to be on a "standard" size. Did anybody try a shorter ones like this tojiro (just an example):





If so, how do you like it?

P.S. Please do not recommend Watanabe his pieces are not for me.


----------



## Choppin (May 26, 2017)

Matus said:


> The taller the better. I love the height on my Toyama 180. If I were geting a 165 I would try to find Masakage Koishi - they should be 60 mm tall.
> 
> I do not quite understand why most nakiris are only around 52 mm tall. The 165 balde length is actually enough, but more height is definitely an advantage.



Matus, do you know the weight for the Toyama 180? If I had to buy a 180 it would be one of my top choices...


----------



## Sporks (May 26, 2017)

My 180mm Takeda is 59mm at the belly.


----------



## inzite (May 26, 2017)

folks who have tall nakiri should look into mini vege cleavers!


----------



## fatboylim (May 27, 2017)

inzite said:


> folks who have tall nakiri should look into mini vege cleavers!



Totally agree and the vegetable cleavers start around 70mm heigh going up +110mm heigh. 

My Toyama 210 Nakiri is 64mm heigh and is an upgrade in steel and grind compared to a CCK 1915 vegetable cleaver (70mm heigh).


----------



## Matus (May 27, 2017)

inzite said:


> folks who have tall nakiri should look into mini vege cleavers!



Well, those are considerably heavier, aren't they? 180 nakiris are weight-wise on the upper side of being used for fast chopping. Make the weight even larger, and you will only be able to slice (unless you have forearms like a Rambo  ). There is nothing to wrong with that, but it is a different style of cutting.


----------



## fatboylim (May 27, 2017)

Matus said:


> Well, those are considerably heavier, aren't they? 180 nakiris are weight-wise on the upper side of being used for fast chopping. Make the weight even larger, and you will only be able to slice (unless you have forearms like a Rambo  ). There is nothing to wrong with that, but it is a different style of cutting.



Actually most vegetable cleavers are super thin and light. My CCK 1302 is 210mm by 94mm tall, 2mm thin at the spin. It is only 190g weight and feel very light for that size. There are others that are 3mm thick and closer to 400g weight.


----------



## Matus (May 27, 2017)

Choppin said:


> Matus, do you know the weight for the Toyama 180? If I had to buy a 180 it would be one of my top choices...



Sorry, just noticed your question now. My Toyama 180 nakiri weights just 2 or 3 grams shy of 200g I personally would not mind if it were some 20 g lighter, but I like it a lot nevertheless  I do find a 150g 165mm nakiri too lightweight for my taste.


----------



## Choppin (May 27, 2017)

Matus said:


> Sorry, just noticed your question now. My Toyama 180 nakiri weights just 2 or 3 grams shy of 200g I personally would not mind if it were some 20 g lighter, but I like it a lot nevertheless  I do find a 150g 165mm nakiri too lightweight for my taste.



Thanks Matus. I actually thought it would be heavier - my 165mm Shig KU weights 191g and a 180mm is probably 10-20g heavier than the Toyama. That's good news, I was afraid it would be too heavy for me but prolly not. I also wouldn't mind if my Shig was a bit lighter; the 180 Toyama seems to be more balanced in this sense


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (May 28, 2017)

I guess the deciding question is: What is more important, the ability to switch to a tunnel grip quickly (less tall) or maximum scooping and angle leverage (get a chinese cleaver already  )?


----------



## Sporks (May 28, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> I guess the deciding question is: What is more important, the ability to switch to a tunnel grip quickly (less tall) or maximum scooping and angle leverage (get a chinese cleaver already  )?



Actually, this is an issue for me. As I stated previously, my Takeda is 59mm, which is _just_ tall enough to catch the bottom of my hand when I switch. If it were about 56mm, it'd be perfect, and I'd be happier with it, frankly. My hands are fairly average size, so someone with large hands or long fingers might feel differently. I'd happily take 3mm less scooping space for being able to switch cutting styles more easily.


----------



## scott.livesey (May 29, 2017)

since I am not a professional cook, switching grip quickly is less important than comfort while chopping. a nakiri with a 150x50x1.8 blade will weigh about 85 grams and never tire you out. much bigger than that and you now have a small cleaver, especially if spine thickness is 3mm or more.


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (May 29, 2017)

Not pro here  I always suspect many pros just adapt their recipes to need as little as possible non-claw cuts


----------



## Matus (May 29, 2017)

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you guys call a 'tunnel grip' ?


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (May 29, 2017)

Both halves-to-be of an ingredient, or the sides of a dicing stack that you want kept together for cross cuts, held with one or two fingers each, knife below palm.


----------



## Matus (May 30, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Both halves-to-be of an ingredient, or the sides of a dicing stack that you want kept together for cross cuts, held with one or two fingers each, knife below palm.



I see! thanks  But I am surprised that one would want a knife designed specifically for chopping that way. But there are plenty ow low nakiris (Carter seems to be expert on that  ) so that cutting style is definitely easily possible with many. Still - why would not one want to use something like 180 gyuto with blade height about 45 mm instead?


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (May 30, 2017)

Because I then need to find a place to store the not-block-clean nakiri between glass and metal mise bowls and ingredient containers while using the petty or gyuto  And I hate having any other knife lying around on the cutting board - always makes me nervous to have something dangerous on the board especially in an area that I am not focusing on


----------



## fatboylim (May 31, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Because I then need to find a place to store the not-block-clean nakiri between glass and metal mise bowls and ingredient containers while using the petty or gyuto  And I hate having any other knife lying around on the cutting board - always makes me nervous to have something dangerous on the board especially in an area that I am not focusing on



Definitely agree if this were a professional environment with large prep; I would go a 240 Gyuto. It can do both Gyuto and Nakiri roles. 

In a home environment with little prep and more space, I would go 180 Gyuto and 180 Nakiri. It is more fun and more specialised sizes. Just my preference.

Interestingly, in a pro environment, most Japanese chefs will have three knives near their board: Gyuto, sujihiki and petty.


----------



## labor of love (May 31, 2017)

I suppose a more narrow nakiri would offer some familiarity that comes from using lots of gyutos.the downside of a narrow nakiri would be that your doing the actually cutting closer to your hands and product could be hitting your knuckles. Seems like it would be great for pull cuts but less ideal for push cuts. I know nothing of using nakiris but just felt like making observations. Good luck.



Ruso said:


> Mine is 53mm at the heel and 55mm at the belly. So it appears to be on a "standard" size. Did anybody try a shorter ones like this tojiro (just an example):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (May 31, 2017)

@fatboylim I find that a home environment can become very cramped once you cross 10 ingredients per square meter of counter space available...


----------



## fatboylim (May 31, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @fatboylim I find that a home environment can become very cramped once you cross 10 ingredients per square meter of counter space available...



That sounds like a lot of prep! How big is your family!


----------



## K813zra (May 31, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @fatboylim I find that a home environment can become very cramped once you cross 10 ingredients per square meter of counter space available...



Take them out one at a time, cut them and move them to prep bowls. :rofl2:


----------



## Ruso (May 31, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @fatboylim I find that a home environment can become very cramped once you cross 10 ingredients per square meter of counter space available...



You are lucky to have a square meter of counter top available when the cutting board is used.


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (May 31, 2017)

@Ruso including space for cutting board - at least it gives one a reason to hoard cutting boards in different sizes


----------



## -Kiku- (Oct 14, 2020)

Ruso said:


> I am thinking on idea of getting another Nakiri and while looking at the options I noticed that the height can vary quite a bit. There are some very short ones, gyuto/santoku like, and some are on a taller side.
> 
> So, what is the more tradition profile?



There is no set standard on the ideal height of a nakiri. The actual height varies from brand to brand (approx. 45-55 mm). And the one that you find to be 'ideal' will be based on your preference.

Having used to handling several el-cheapo Chinese-style cleavers, my ideal height of a nakiri would be somewhere in the 60-65 mm range which is significantly taller than traditional nakiri but significantly shorter than the typical Chinese-style cleavers.

AFAIK, there are no manufacturers who make nakiri in the 60-65 mm height range. So the only way for me to obtain one would be to have it custom-made.

P.S. Oh crap. Just noticed the date of the OP's post. Sorry, didn't mean to revive this old thread.


----------



## Slim278 (Oct 14, 2020)

-Kiku- said:


> AFAIK, there are no manufacturers who make nakiri in the 60-65 mm height range. So the only way for me to obtain one would be to have it custom-made.






Shop – Birgersson Blades




Shop – Birgersson Blades


----------



## -Kiku- (Oct 14, 2020)

Thank you for the link, @Slim278. But the site won't load for some reason. My internet's working fine. I'll try again at a later time.


----------



## ian (Oct 14, 2020)

-Kiku- said:


> Having used to handling several el-cheapo Chinese-style cleavers, my ideal height of a nakiri would be somewhere in the 60-65 mm range which is significantly taller than traditional nakiri but significantly shorter than the typical Chinese-style cleavers.



Have you actually tried a nakiri in the 55-60 range?


----------



## spaceconvoy (Oct 14, 2020)

I wish I had saved that meme, "I see JML in every new member"


----------



## Ruso (Oct 14, 2020)

-Kiku- said:


> There is no set standard on the ideal height of a nakiri. The actual height varies from brand to brand (approx. 45-55 mm). And the one that you find to be 'ideal' will be based on your preference.
> 
> Having used to handling several el-cheapo Chinese-style cleavers, my ideal height of a nakiri would be somewhere in the 60-65 mm range which is significantly taller than traditional nakiri but significantly shorter than the typical Chinese-style cleavers.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. I just had a trip in the time machine to the time when I thought nakiris are cool


----------



## josemartinlopez (Oct 14, 2020)

-Kiku- said:


> AFAIK, there are no manufacturers who make nakiri in the 60-65 mm height range. So the only way for me to obtain one would be to have it custom-made.


Shiro Kamo 165mm is about 60mm, Watanabe Pro 180mm is about 60mm and Teruyasu Fujiwara Denka 195mm is about 65mm. There are a few manufacturers who make taller nakiris without going to 70+ mm like the Birgersson nakiris you linked.


----------



## -Kiku- (Oct 14, 2020)

Ruso said:


> Thank you for your reply. I just had a trip in the time machine to the time when I thought nakiris are cool



They ARE cool. Want it cooler? Let it sit in the refrigerator/freezer for a while...

@josemartinlopez
Thank you for the list! I checked out Shiro Kamo 165mm. The blade height is exactly at 60mm (good), but the handle appears to be angled upward (bad). Would you happen to know of any SRS15 nakiri of 60-65mm blade height? I decided to go with nonreactive metal.


----------

