# Pizza dough - Thin and traditional



## PieMan (Jul 11, 2016)

Hi all,

I'm quite competent at making thick, deep pan pizza bases, but my wife is starting to complain about her arse so i'm trying to slim things down with everything I make.

Anyway, is there a traditional recipe out there that works for you? One I can have some fun throwing the dough up in the air, and perhaps practising/failing miserably that too.

I'm assuming they're no good for a skillet, so i'll go grab a stone while i'm at it...


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## malexthekid (Jul 11, 2016)

I have two I use.

http://www.taste.com.au/recipes/14433/pizza+dough


[video=youtube;1-SJGQ2HLp8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-SJGQ2HLp8[/video]

I have only just started to use the second one (trying to cut out the sugar cause I can)....

I cook with a pizza stone which does a reasonable job of getting the pizza nice and crispy (well as good as you will get without a proper wood pizza oven imo).

Just roll it out nice and thin (like approx 1-2mm).


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## PieMan (Jul 11, 2016)

Hey nice one, I grew up in Red Hill. Just off Manuka.


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## malexthekid (Jul 11, 2016)

No worries.

Cool, I am a Brissie boy, but moved down here 5 and a half years ago now.


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## DeepCSweede (Jul 11, 2016)

Lately I have been using this one or a variation of such depending on how much hydration I want to run with. I use a stone at 550F warmed up for 1/2 an hour to an hour. I have definitely found that the dough develops its best flavor between 3-5 days in the fridge.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2175.msg19124.html#msg19124


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## PieMan (Jul 12, 2016)

Attempt 1:







Didn't have a way or transferring the pizza from bench to stone, hence the circle went a bit, well....

Oh well. Tastes good. Base is a bit floury. Only the first once i've made so of course it won't be perfect.

This one is is tomato, basil, emmental and mozzarella.


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## Jordanp (Jul 12, 2016)

[video=youtube;gijjMJiR_q0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gijjMJiR_q0[/video]
[video=youtube;LcD999Ci78E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcD999Ci78E[/video]
[video=youtube;0v-AvmmyFFM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v-AvmmyFFM[/video]

Also getting a pizza peel will help a lot in transferring it; I also enjoy Roberta's dough recipe with the sourdough starter if you feel inclined to try it.


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## PieMan (Jul 12, 2016)

Interesting. I'll try toasting the flour up for tomorrows test for sure. Good to see the videos show how to handle the dough too, I mean dough is nothing new to me as i've always made my own pie dough, but handling without the aid of a dish or pan is what is killing me. Think i've rigged up a "ghetto peel" too.


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## Devon_Steven (Jul 12, 2016)

A useful tip is to put maize flour on the stone to stop the dough sticking.

In Italy they often use a very fine semolina for this, but it's easier to find maize flour here in the UK


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## Devon_Steven (Jul 12, 2016)

The maize flour just kinda falls off the cooked pizza


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## PieMan (Jul 12, 2016)

maizeflour.... cornflour? I live here but I still use Australian terminology.


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## malexthekid (Jul 12, 2016)

I use semolina for that purpose and it works great. I tend to think it also aids crisping up the base


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## Devon_Steven (Jul 12, 2016)

PieMan said:


> maizeflour.... cornflour? I live here but I still use Australian terminology.



Yes, maize = corn but I used 'maize' because it's not cornflour like the stuff you use to thicken sauces. 

It's ground corn but not so fine. I use one that is for tortillas etc (Pan brand, semi cooked, from Colombia). 

It is more fine than the stuff I can get for making polenta (which doesn't do such a great job).


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## Devon_Steven (Jul 12, 2016)

malexthekid said:


> I use semolina for that purpose and it works great. I tend to think it also aids crisping up the base



Agreed Re crisping also with the maize


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## PieMan (Jul 13, 2016)

This is the same batch of dough as the original one.

Complete failure.

1) Leaving the pastry in the fridge let it dry out way too much, as I forgot to use a damp towel or oil the dough to trap moisture, which made it painful to try and pull as it wasn't elastic enough, and made the resulting pizza crispy and dry.
2) I over roasted the flour and used too much, resulting it way too much flour (Will try semolina or maize flour once I buy some)






This ugly thing was Creme Fraiche, Bacon Lardon, Provincial Herbs and an egg for good measure. 

Toppings were ace, dough was not. On to the next test!


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## Devon_Steven (Jul 13, 2016)

Ageing the dough may also have exhausted the food supply for the yeasts.


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## Lucretia (Jul 14, 2016)

DeepCSweede said:


> Lately I have been using this one or a variation of such depending on how much hydration I want to run with. I use a stone at 550F warmed up for 1/2 an hour to an hour. I have definitely found that the dough develops its best flavor between 3-5 days in the fridge.
> http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2175.msg19124.html#msg19124



The recipe at this link draws from Jeff Varasano's recipe (the basis for crust at our house.) Varasano's instructions are here with pictures and a lot of interesting information.

+1 on leaving the dough in the fridge improving the flavor.

We've also found it works pretty well to make multiple batches at once and freeze the ones you aren't using right away (right after they've been kneaded.) Let thaw in the fridge and give it a few days to let the flavor develop and off you go.


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## Neens (Jul 16, 2016)

When you put the dough in the fridge covering with plastic wrap will be enough to stop the dough drying out. You don't need to oil the top of use a damp towel.


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## PieMan (Jul 19, 2016)

Take 3. I was happy with the dough, ruined trying to transfer it. Ended up baking on a tray on the stone rather than on the stone, and I turned the oven off once the pizza went in. Hmm. night turn the grill on next time...

Cree Frais/Onion/Egg. Ran out of Lardon!


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## Aleque (Jul 19, 2016)

Check out the books by Ken Forkish on Bread and Pizza. I found his recipes to be very reliable. It takes a little while to get the timing right since you need to let the dough ferment. His ratios and explanations about hydration of the dough really teach the building blocks of making dough. I found myself making the dough a few times but noticing that I needed to change ratios because of my location, the temperature of my house, and flour I used. So it gives you the tools to really explore. 

If you don't have a pizza stone, I found that it really makes it easier to slide the pizza in and out with a peel. If you are using a cast iron pan, I found that turning it upside down and cooking the pizza on the bottom of the pan was easier with thin crusted pies. Obviously clean the bottom if it's gross. 

Lastly, you need to super heat the pan using the broiler. Keep the temperature as high as possible on the bake/convection and then broil for a few minutes before you put the pizza in. 

Hopefully that helps!


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## stereo.pete (Jul 20, 2016)

Once your dough is ready, form your pizza and top it with whatever you want on a piece of parchment paper. Slice a peel or upside down cookie sheet under the parchment paper and that will allow you transfer your pizza to the stone with no more issues. This works every time, trust me.


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## PieMan (Jul 20, 2016)

You are a ******* genius.

Anyway, number 4.

Finally the semolina and my cutting board, I made a ghetto-peel.

The missing side is still stuck, upside down to one of my pizza stones :rofl2:

At least it slid off this time.






American websites seem to put emphasis on the bottom side being all black? Dunno.






This one is my general goes-with-everything tomato sauce that I make, basil and emmental.


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## PieMan (Jul 20, 2016)

Errr, I mean that genius comment in the literal sense, i'm not being condescending, this whole transfer process has been really frustrating!


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## PieMan (Jul 21, 2016)

Number 5, same toppings as number 4. You can see how it landed not-flat on the stones. Problem was the smoke/steam hit me directly in the eyes as I was trying to jiggle the pizza off the rack and onto the stone.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jul 21, 2016)

thirty years ago I used to through pies for a living. I could hand make three a minute with toppings. One of the keys to getting your pizza off the board cleanly is having a dry board and dough. Also, once its on the board, move quick. 

But if it looks like its going to catch on the edge, one thing you can do if lift up an edge and blow a little cloud of air underneath. Then carefully transport it to the stone and with a couple of quick wrist jerks, confidently slide that puppy into position. 

Some other thoughts given your photos, its a good idea to put the sauce in the center and work out but start spreading the cheese from the crust to the center to prevent it clumping up in the middle. Lastly, what temp are you running your oven at, honestly your pizza's look both over cooked and under cooked. Last tip, consider making your crust smaller (unless you like large crusts). A smaller crust will not raise as much when cooking, thus will not push everything to the center of the pizza. Even consider using a rolling pin, then just form a little crust with your fingers.

Please post more, their getting better each time.


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## PieMan (Jul 21, 2016)

Interesting, I haven't been paying any regard as to how or when I start the placement of the tomato (or creme fraiche) or how the toppings go on. Interesting.

Half the problem is they get all bunched up before they hit the stone! Here is how that one looked prior to cooking:






I fire my oven to 250C, wait for half an hour and then throw the pizza on. The stones are Terrazzo from a local construction site.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jul 21, 2016)

You might not be giving the stones enough time to pre-heat given their thickness. Having thick stones like your are an advantage, if your pumping out multiple pies one after the other. Consider two hours at the highest setting you can. I preheat my oven to 550 degrees on convection, but turn off convection when cooking. Have you verified that your oven is actually getting that hot?

I would still say that your crust is too fat, wide and dry. Its going to cook faster and puff up, pushing the filling to the center. Also, consider using a dryer tomato sauce with less chunks. When making it, add some tomato paste to thicken it. Also, I add specs of basil and dried Italian paper flake after I cook it. If you want your pizza with lots of basil flavor, infuse it in an oil and drizzle it on the pizza after its cooked. Could also pesto the basil and drizzle that on after its cooked too.

Have fun.


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## PieMan (Jul 21, 2016)

Interesting, awesome. All part of the experimentation! Cheers. Unfortunately i'm catering this weekend so won't have a chance to get number 6 underway until next week, then i'm off to mainland Europe for a fortnight


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## Neens (Jul 22, 2016)

I would also say you don't need that much flour on the board to transfer. We've always used corn meal on the peel and just like a dusting of flour as we pat out the dough. They are looking better, keep at it.


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## Jordanp (Jul 22, 2016)

You should try stretching on parchment with some oil very easy to slide onto your stone while keeping its shape (http://imgur.com/a/Z2T1l)


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## PieMan (Jul 24, 2016)

Number 6.







My fault, I tried the oiled parchment thing and it slid off too readily, once it hit the stone I kind of had to make a half-calzone to shut the door. I think I made the middle too thin too, as it burnt a hole through it. none of my dough turns out even across the board (yet)

Toppings are classic flammkuchen with emmental grated over it.


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## PieMan (Jul 24, 2016)

Number 7, the same as above but this time a semolina'd wooden chopping board rather than the oiled parchment.






I missed a spot with the semolina, and a bit of it stuck to the board. When retrieving, same issue with the metal over tray I use to collect the pizza cutting into the base due to too many ingredients perhaps, or a hole that developed once I slid it in.

Either way, slowly ironing out the kinks in my technique...


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## PieMan (Jul 27, 2016)

Number eight, as above...










Pretty happy with the way it slid onto the stone, but I think either the stone wasn't hot enough or it was not left in the over long enough...


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## PieMan (Jul 27, 2016)

Number nine... Cree Fraiche, onion, goats cheese, camembert and olives.

Leaving for Europe tomorrow, so clearing out what's left in the fridge! Same dough batch as above (I let it dry out too much) but with an extra hour of stone-heating between. Had some transfer issues.










A bit too crispy too, possibly overdone, or dough not evenly rolled...


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## PieMan (Oct 20, 2016)

So i've been cooking other things the past few months, however my Pizza bases were looking like this,








This,






And tonights was this...


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## guari (Oct 20, 2016)

Impressive how your pizzas have improved from first post! 

Keep on at it!


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## PieMan (Oct 21, 2016)

Cheers!

Just need another pizza stone, as my base are a bit undercooked I feel...

I think this is Pizza 13 or 14.


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## Mucho Bocho (Oct 21, 2016)

WOW, Look at that. Sliced potatoes on pizza!

For me the hardest thing to do when making pizza, is not to put too much stuff (cheese, sauce, toppings) on. I want each slice to remain flat and even while eating it. If you have to fold it over (now a Taco) or it droops and toppings fall off, its not right. Not that it won't be delicious, just not a balanced slice.

One thing you might try it to use a drier more tart tomato sauce, will be a stronger glue with less water. Also, its really important to par cook, cool and dry off any ingredients before using as a topping. Try to make all ingredients the same size. When arranging them over the pie, try to keep them from touching too much, certainly not stacked on top of each other. 

Lastly, don't underestimate the power of a drizzle of olive oil pinch of red pepper flake, even drips of pesto oil right before serving. Personal I don't like whole basil leaves on pizza, I think its laziness and poor chef form. 

Looks like you got the oven/stone to proper temp on that one and its round without holes. You're getting there, Lets see if my advise helps. 

MB


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## Kippington (Oct 21, 2016)

Are you using a peel to get the pizza to the stone?

The best way to work out if a raw pizza will give you any trouble transferring it into the oven is to shake it on the peel just before sliding it onto the stone. It should slide easily and you can spot any trouble areas that are stuck and need to be dealt with before moving to the oven.

You should be proud of your last picture, that one looks great!


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## preizzo (Oct 21, 2016)

Did this one tonight at work &#128521;
Napoletana style with breased lamb shank, stracciatella, basil, spicy calabrese oil.


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## PieMan (Oct 22, 2016)

Man that one looks tasty.

I'm not using a Peel - I'm using a wooden cooking board full of semolina, and no stone. Yes I need to buy a stone, at the moment i'm using a baking tray preheated. I had a pair of stones (earlier in this thread) but they were not proper pizza stones and were giving off weird gasses that made me dizzy, not good! I'll try and find something. I'm only a stones-throw away from Italy at the moment.

Cheers for the tips on the toppings - Much appreciated. Par cooking everything makes total sense, but it's nothing i've ever read or been told before. 

The potato slices were a bad idea. I was trying to lump everything I could onto it, as i'm now back on the European mainland, hence had to empty my kitchen it Scotland so I don't return to a bunch of off-lardons and sprouted potatos!


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## Devon_Steven (Oct 23, 2016)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Personal I don't like whole basil leaves on pizza, I think its laziness and poor chef form.



Fair enough if you don't like whole basil leaves, and it may be poor chefs' form where you are based, but it's entirely standard in Italy. I'm sure you know that but I had to say it :biggrin:

---

As for toppings, I like to keep things simple... good passata or good canned tomatoes is all I use for a 'sauce'; decent mozzarella; and go light with whatever else you use.

Here in the UK proper, good mozzarella is very expensive; for me (and many of my friends) it is hard to beat Tesco's Everyday Value Mozzarella which costs around 47p for a 125g lump. It's made from cows' milk but has a decent texture and passable flavour.

The classic Italian potato pizza is a pizza bianca (white pizza, no tomatoes) and utilises thin slices of potato, fresh rosemary, olive oil and salt.






This is a pizza where the pizza base can be a little thicker, to give the tatties time to cook without overdoing the base.

In general I go with the thinner-is-better approach to pizza bases (try pizza in Rome... ultra-thin!). So, unlike Mucho, I like a pizza that folds in the hand. (not mucho agreement on pizzas :biggrin: )

---

An excellent pizza in Edinburgh can be found at La Favorita, Leith Walk. A critically-acclaimed new pizzeria has also opened up somewhere else in Leith Walk, but I haven't been there yet (don't live in Edinburgh any more); the new one is http://www.origano-leith.co.uk/about-restaurant/


Steven


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## Mucho Bocho (Oct 23, 2016)

Steven, yea it does come down to preference and just because people have been putting basil leaves on pizza doesn't mean it's a good idea.


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## Devon_Steven (Oct 23, 2016)

I'm intrigued, in what way is it a bad idea? Other than putting the leaves on when the pizza is hot enough to discolour the basil? Can I assume that you are happy with the basil flavour, just not happy with whole leaves?


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## Mucho Bocho (Oct 23, 2016)

I guess I like the flavor and perfume just not the discolored leaves texture. I'm not hung up on it though. I can pick them off.


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## Devon_Steven (Oct 24, 2016)

I've had the blackened leaves when cooking at home but never been served with such in Italy. To prevent it I just don't put the basil on immediately and that works fine.


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## Castalia (Oct 24, 2016)

Do you add the basil leaves after cooking or put them on halfway through?


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## Bill13 (Oct 24, 2016)

PieMan said:


> Man that one looks tasty.
> 
> I'm not using a Peel - I'm using a wooden cooking board full of semolina, and no stone. Yes I need to buy a stone, at the moment i'm using a baking tray preheated. I had a pair of stones (earlier in this thread) but they were not proper pizza stones and were giving off weird gasses that made me dizzy, not good! I'll try and find something. I'm only a stones-throw away from Italy at the moment.
> 
> ...



Try a baking steel of A36 steel 3/8 inch thick instead of a stone, made a big difference for me.


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## Chuckles (Oct 25, 2016)

Do you have a specific recommendation? I have been reading Ken Forkish 'The Elements of Pizza' and he mentions Stoughton Steel. A quick glance at the website pulled up some interesting options. This one doubles as a griddle but is pricey. 

https://shop.bakingsteel.com/collections/griddles/products/baking-steel-griddle


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## Devon_Steven (Oct 25, 2016)

Castalia said:


> Do you add the basil leaves after cooking or put them on halfway through?



After cooking, during cooking would blacken them for sure.


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## DamageInc (Oct 25, 2016)

Devon_Steven said:


> After cooking, during cooking would blacken them for sure.



Soak them in mozzarella brine until right before going in the oven. Also, layer the basil under the cheese instead of on top if burning persists.


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## Kippington (Oct 25, 2016)

Devon_Steven said:


> As for toppings, I like to keep things simple... good passata or good canned tomatoes is all I use for a 'sauce'; decent mozzarella; and go light with whatever else you use.
> 
> Here in the UK proper, good mozzarella is very expensive; for me (and many of my friends) it is hard to beat Tesco's Everyday Value Mozzarella which costs around 47p for a 125g lump. It's made from cows' milk but has a decent texture and passable flavour.



Just an interesting side note on the price of the ingredients:

I remember when some super nice mozzarella came into work, I tried some raw and it was amazingly nice in both flavor and texture.
Trying it a few minutes later on a freshly cooked pizza, it was worse then the cheaper stuff. It turns out a lot of the brine leaked out and caused a soggy pizza and changed the flavor of the mozzarella.


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## preizzo (Oct 25, 2016)

You need to hang the mozzarella over the night always.


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## Kippington (Oct 25, 2016)

It makes sense in retrospect. I've never actually seen anyone do it though.


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## Artichoke (Oct 25, 2016)

Chuckles said:


> Do you have a specific recommendation? I have been reading Ken Forkish 'The Elements of Pizza' and he mentions Stoughton Steel. A quick glance at the website pulled up some interesting options. This one doubles as a griddle but is pricey.
> 
> https://shop.bakingsteel.com/collections/griddles/products/baking-steel-griddle



I had a piece of 1/4" plate cut to fit my oven rack (as large as would fit). It works awesome. It was about $25 total.


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## PieMan (Nov 6, 2016)

Its been halloween time, so that means I have been true to my name - Pumpkin Pies for days!

Made some Pizza dough in between pie batches though.

Here's the first one: Prosciutto and mushrooms on a garlic béchamel base. Base was a tiny bit burnt, but I absolutely killed the béchamel sauce. First time id tried a garlic version and absolutely nailed it.






Liberated some pumpkin for the second pizza, parboiled but really should have just grated off some pumpkin. It was hard as I was using pumpkin i'd had a blonde moment with and stored in the freezer overnight (Give me a break, I was being until 3am the night before...) hence it was all...soft and squidgy. It tasted fine but it kind of added moisture to the base that it didn't need.


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## _PixelNinja (Nov 7, 2016)

preizzo said:


> You need to hang the mozzarella over the night always.


If I'm going to cook the mozzarella on a pizza, I will cut it up to the size I intend to use and put it in a tupperware layered with paper towels for at least 2 hours in the fridge.


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## Mucho Bocho (Nov 7, 2016)

A quick way to dehydrate mozzarella is to vac bag it with lots of paper towels.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 7, 2016)

A very slow way to dehyrdate it is to cold smoke it overnight, as I do, with my Tesco cows' milk mozz.

I put as many mozz cheeses as I can fit (usuallly up to ten) in the smoker whenever I'm doing a load of pancetta/guanciale/salmon. I then freeze the smoked cheeses. Semi-frozen slicing is good for thin and tidy slices too.

Anyway, the point is that the cheeses lose a lot of moisture during their time in the smoker.

This moisture issue is one reason why there is a schism in the pizza world over whether or not to use true buffalo mozzarella or slightly drier and less traditional types (inc. the rather too dry industrial stuff that we see a lot of these days).

I read an interesting article about this a year or two ago... I'll try to find it...


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## PieMan (Nov 7, 2016)

Man, there's a lot more to this than making a base and throwing stuff on top of it!

I'm happy with my bases now. Of course there is room for improvement, but that will only happen by.... making more pizza!

I'd like to focus on toppings for a little bit.

Throw some topping ideas at me, please, kind people?


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 7, 2016)

PieMan said:


> Throw some topping ideas at me, please, kind people?



One of my favourites is simply slices of ripe, sweet figs and proscuitto crudo. That's it, no tomatoes, no cheese (some do, though), just delicious.







Check the menu here for ideas: http://www.origano-leith.co.uk/about-restaurant/ better still, go visit and report back to me!


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## DamageInc (Nov 7, 2016)

Foie Gras & Cherries.

Peach & Panchetta.

Onions & Sausage.

Kale & Confit Duck.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 7, 2016)

DamageInc said:


> Foie Gras & Cherries.
> 
> Peach & Panchetta.
> 
> ...



Nice list.

I had a pizza with confit duck in France this summer. Wasn't that great, unfortunately.


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## DamageInc (Nov 7, 2016)

The combo, or just bad pizza? I made one a few months ago that was great.


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## _PixelNinja (Nov 7, 2016)

Devon_Steven said:


> I had a pizza with confit duck in France this summer. Wasn't that great, unfortunately.


Not surprised. Good pizzerias are far and few between over here (although to be honest, _confit de canard_ is not really something to my taste on a pizza).


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## preizzo (Nov 7, 2016)

Sorry damagelnc to franchy for my taste &#128541;&#128541;&#128541;maybe could be good for some tarte flambe &#128521;


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## DamageInc (Nov 7, 2016)

Well, I am currently living in Paris, so some French must leak through into my posts.


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## preizzo (Nov 7, 2016)

&#128523;&#128523;&#128514;you michelín guys are super crazy &#128522;in a good way&#128521;


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## DamageInc (Nov 7, 2016)

Don't call me a michelin guy, please. Chopping vegetables and peeling potatoes for a few weeks does not a michelin guy make. There's a saying in Danish michelin kitchens (or high-tier kitchens in general) called "møg-pony" which basically translates to "s***-pony". A møg-pony takes all the grueling, monotonous tasks such as picking thyme leaves or pulling feathers and does no plating or real cooking. I was a møg-pony. Cooking at home is much more fun.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 7, 2016)

DamageInc said:


> The combo, or just bad pizza? I made one a few months ago that was great.





_PixelNinja said:


> Not surprised. Good pizzerias are far and few between over here (although to be honest, _confit de canard_ is not really something to my taste on a pizza).



It wasn't a great pizza (seemed like the best option in a rural campsite restaurant).

I think that the confit would have worked well if it had been thinly sliced, but this one was festooned with rather thick slices. The cheese was pretty strong too (maybe it had to be given the volume of duck) and just made the whole thing a little (a lot!) too heavy.

I like Damage's kale and duck idea - nice contrast. What kind of kale do you use (I don't remember seeing any kale for sale when I lived in Copenhagen a couple of years ago. At least, I don't remember bringing any home to cook).

At home in the UK I've made kale and pancetta pizza using cavalo nero kale.


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## preizzo (Nov 8, 2016)

I know and I agreed with you damagelnc &#128512;
Home kitchen is more fun for me as well &#128526;


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## DamageInc (Nov 8, 2016)

Devon_Steven said:


> It wasn't a great pizza (seemed like the best option in a rural campsite restaurant).
> 
> I think that the confit would have worked well if it had been thinly sliced, but this one was festooned with rather thick slices. The cheese was pretty strong too (maybe it had to be given the volume of duck) and just made the whole thing a little (a lot!) too heavy.
> 
> ...



I don't know what kind of kale you got there in England, but in Denmark I just use what we call grønkål, which looks like this:


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 8, 2016)

DamageInc said:


> I don't know what kind of kale you got there in England, but in Denmark I just use what we call grønkål, which looks like this:



And it sure is green!

In the UK this grønkål is the typical kale found in supermarkets, usually called curly kale, to differentiate it from cavalo nero (Italian for black cabbage, in Scotland known as lang (=long) kale); looks like:






We get other varieties too. A really nice one is the one known in Italy as _cime de rapa_:






Which, I believe, is what they call _turnip tops_ in the US.

In the south west of England where I live, it is known as _hungry gap kale_, as it is ready to eat in the early spring, when there's not much fresh stuff growing and ready to eat, the traditional 'hungry gap' in the year.


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## DamageInc (Nov 8, 2016)

So cavalo nero is the same as dinosaur kale? Well well well, I guess there still were some things I didn't know.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 8, 2016)

DamageInc said:


> I guess there still were some things I didn't know.



Me too, never heard of the dinosaur moniker!

Goes well with lizard, I suppose... :biggrin:


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## preizzo (Nov 8, 2016)

Best pizza I ever did was with cime di rapa and nduja &#128525;&#128525;&#128525;


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 9, 2016)

preizzo said:


> Best pizza I ever did was with cime di rapa and nduja &#128525;&#128525;&#128525;



Never tried nduja - looks and sounds great!

:biggrin:


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## tgfencer (Nov 10, 2016)

That which we call kale, by any other name would still taste damn good.  +1 on the nduja, great idea!


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## DeepCSweede (Nov 12, 2016)

Just took one out of the oven - Boars head natural casing pepperoni, red onion, mushroom and red pepper. Not my best pie but darn tasty.


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## PieMan (Nov 14, 2016)

Devon_Steven said:


> One of my favourites is simply slices of ripe, sweet figs and proscuitto crudo. That's it, no tomatoes, no cheese (some do, though), just delicious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My apartment looks over Leith, so that can be arranged!

I am dying, dying dying dying to try Fig and Prosciutto - But I couldn't find any Figs.

Today's effort:






I had bought the Prosciutto, and got defeated because of no fig. I found an olive/chilli/garlic mix suspended in olive oil in the fridge (left overs from when I hosted aperitifs here with friends on time) so the garlic went in a béchamel sauce and the rest, along with some prosciutto went straight on top.

It tasted fine, but again I guess I don't have the temps up enough.

I would like to clarify that I am the PieMan, however over here we definitely don't refer to Pizza's as Pie's!


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 14, 2016)

Have you moved from Stockbridge? 

Trouble with figs is that it's difficult to find a ripe and tasty one in the UK


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 14, 2016)

Have you been into valvonna and crolla's yet?


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## PieMan (Nov 14, 2016)

Not yet, been to a few places but haven't made it that far yet! Seems a new place opens up every week...

Nah. Top floor apartment facing the water of Leith in the direction of Leith, I assume some of the lights in the distance are of Leith itself...

Waitrose were meant to have them (I know, not ideal but it's better than nothing, maybe) but nothing. I'll drive to another store tomorrow.


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## PieMan (Nov 15, 2016)

Todays effort. This was a bigger Pizza than the rest.






I rescued a Sony camera with a broken LCD, spent a little bit of money on replacement parts so now I have a proper digital camera. I should learn how to use it properly, perhaps the pizza photos can improve as the pizzas do...


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## tgfencer (Nov 15, 2016)

PieMan said:


> My apartment looks over Leith, so that can be arranged!
> 
> Hey whereabouts in Leith do you live? I lived in Edinburgh for about 6 years myself, uni for a bit, then work. Worked about a year in the Hanging Bat over in Tollcross.
> 
> Just fyi, I had decent luck finding fresh figs in Lidl of all places, but you had to pick through the not so great ones. One thing I do not miss about living in the UK is the scarcity of a decent variety of good fruit and veg. Remember having to make guacamole every other day and having a minimum of half the box of avocados be rock hard when they came in from the wholesaler.


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## PieMan (Nov 16, 2016)

I was just off Pilrig but i'm in Stockbridge these days.

There's a brand new Lidl I was going to go check out (I buy things like cleaning products there) so sounds like a good idea to go look.


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## guari (Nov 16, 2016)

PieMan said:


> I was just off Pilrig but i'm in Stockbridge these days.
> 
> There's a brand new Lidl I was going to go check out (I buy things like cleaning products there) so sounds like a good idea to go look.



Small world, we are a stone throw away then. I'm up the road like 5 mins away.


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## PieMan (Nov 16, 2016)

Hey nice one, come to the Edinburgh Craft Beer festival in a few weeks time! </plug>

I went to Lidl, and... nothing. Not a fig in sight. Defeated (but with Guacamole for tonight in mind, so I had some of the hardest most unappetising avocado ever in hand, tgfencer's post influenced the idea) I slowly walked home.

Afghani man who runs a small shop on the Stockbridge strip had nice fresh figs sitting outside on display. I'd walked straight past them on my way to Lidl! Dammit.

Tried a new dough recipe that a mate of mine suggested, it has sugar in it. I'm not sure if I liked it that much, maybe I used too much yeast? I'd cut his recipe down by 4.











The fig and prosciutto combination was absolutely magnificent though. Loved it.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 16, 2016)

That's the best looking pizza to date... must be 'cos of the superior flavour ideas ;-) 

I have to say, I've only ever eaten this one with sliced figs... Must try it with the wedges.

Glad you liked the combo. And glad you found the Afghan guy... I was going to suggest such a shop but not having lived in Edinburgh for eight years now I couldn't think of one nearby you. That kind of shop is also usually the best for chillies and coriander leaves rather than supermarkets.


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## PieMan (Nov 20, 2016)

There's a shop here called Herbies too which is the best for charcuterie, a George Mews cheese on my street and the Afghan Man, things seem to be around, just need to find them.

So I made my burritos and they were good, the leftover guac went on #2, so somewhat ignore it, it got a bit wild...

Missus wanted goats cheese added to her prosciutto and fig, seemed like an alright idea...





















I need a stone. These are alright but without upping the heat they can't get "great".


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## preizzo (Nov 20, 2016)

Got mine few days ago as a present for my 30th birthday


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## Artichoke (Nov 20, 2016)

PieMan said:


> There's a shop here called Herbies too which is the best for charcuterie, a George Mews cheese on my street and the Afghan Man, things seem to be around, just need to find them.
> 
> So I made my burritos and they were good, the leftover guac went on #2, so somewhat ignore it, it got a bit wild...
> 
> ...



Two nights ago I made one with prosciutto, pear and chèvre. It was so good that I'm making another one tonight.

The game changer for me was having a piece of 1/4" steel plate cut to fit my oven. It was about $25 and was money well spent.


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## PieMan (Nov 20, 2016)

I'll have to wait - I'm renting at the moment, however will buy early next year once I find out where in the world I am. Part of buying is outfitting my kitchen how I want it, which means a commercial oven.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 21, 2016)

So, I had to rush out and buy some figs...






The ham is not proscuitto, but my own home-cured coppa.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 21, 2016)

Then it was coppa and kale...






This one got a little over-cooked!


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 21, 2016)

And finished off with coppa and aubergine...


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## Artichoke (Nov 21, 2016)

Artichoke said:


> Two nights ago I made one with prosciutto, pear and chèvre. It was so good that I'm making another one tonight.
> 
> The game changer for me was having a piece of 1/4" steel plate cut to fit my oven. It was about $25 and was money well spent.



Prosciutto, pear & chévre.


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## Artichoke (Nov 21, 2016)

Devon_Steven said:


> Then it was coppa and kale...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That looks tasty!


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 21, 2016)

And the leftover dough creates kale and mascarpone for the next day's lunch...


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 21, 2016)

You can see the pizza stone I'm using (actually I have three so that one can be hot in the oven and ready to cook with while the other two used are used for proving dough / serving).

About cookers, my previous cooker was a pizza disaster - too cold - and I had to do pizzas on the kettle BBQ.

Now I have a Zanussi induction hob with two electric ovens (large and small) - the large one is fan assisted and gets up to around 260 - 270oC

I no longer have to cook pizzas in the garden!


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 21, 2016)

Artichoke,

I mixed the kale with olive oil, salt and balsamic vinegar and then added it to the pizza with about one minute of cooking left to go.

Your pear and prosciutto pizza looks great.

Last time I had pear in a savoury meal was in Treviso in north east Italy... it was ravioli stuffed with pear and served in a creamy cheese sauce. Delightful. Thank you for reminding me of it!


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## PieMan (Nov 22, 2016)

Those all look great. Man.

One recipe to try is blue cheese, prosciutto, rocket, pear and walnuts. It's not my topping, stolen from a pizza place - Bentham St Pizza in Yarralumla, Canberra, Australia where I always used to go. It was divine - They have a gas fired oven though, an electric one may not work the same, flavour wise? Just a passing thought, i'm still solidly new to this.


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## DamageInc (Nov 29, 2016)

Snails and garlic beurre Maître d'Hôtel

Put that on a pizza.


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## PieMan (Dec 11, 2016)

I actually have some in the oven now, but not on a pizza..

I've been experimenting with crust...











Which was fine, I was enjoying the pizzas...

So I delved more into it...

1 week later i've turned this out






Now to apply my starter to pizza dough!


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## Mucho Bocho (Dec 11, 2016)

Pieman, Coming along nicely. These two pizza's look like your best effort. Lets see the bottom and a piece after you've cut it.

Scissors are very useful for cutting pizza. It doesn't crimp the edge as much a roller does.


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## mise_en_place (Dec 11, 2016)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Scissors are very useful for cutting pizza. It doesn't crimp the edge as much a roller does.



I like to use my $9 Wok Shop cleaver to cut up pizzas (or should I say pizze?).

Not saying it's better than scissors, just something I find it extremely useful for.


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## PieMan (Dec 14, 2016)

I just use my cooks knife.

Mucho Bocho - I forgot to take a photo of the bottom, but here is my very first sourdough pizza, using a starter that I made.

It's straight up Creme Fraiche on the bottom... I'm leaving the country for Christmas, so another "Gotta use up what's left in the fridge" special.


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## bennyprofane (Jan 16, 2017)

There's a new show from Vice: "The Pizza Show"

Checked out the New York episode earlier today, pretty interesting, and you really get the Munchies from watching it, went straight to get some organic yeast after watching it...

https://munchies.vice.com/en/show/the-pizza-show


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