# Better options than a "Bulat on Kickstarter" please.



## nacayoda (Jul 1, 2016)

Location: *Australia (Melbourne)*

KNIFE TYPE: *chefs knife or "Cook Knife" I think is the style we use most in our block and would like to upgrade.*

Are you right or left handed? *Right Handed*

Are you interested in a Western handle ? *Either*

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
*Our current Baccarat stainless is 32cm in total. Cutting edge length is approximately 20cm*

Do you require a stainless knife? *Not sure. Daily domestic kitchen use. *

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? *~US$150 *


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? *HOME*

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for ?
*Slicing vegetables
chopping vegetables (from pumpkins to mushrooms)
slicing meats
fine chopping onions, herbs*


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
*Baccarat stainless steel (all steel, inc handle)*

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? *Pinch Grip*

What cutting motions do you primarily use? 
*Slice
Rocking motion
Walking
Push cut*

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics: *layered/Damascus; different handle - wood; <- Both optional (aesthetics aren't everything).*

Comfort: *heavier knife, improved balance*

Ease of Use: *Easier to sharpen / maintain *

Edge Retention: *Forever? *



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? 
*Wood. We do have a bamboo block, but it is large and round. Inconvenient for daily use.*

Do you sharpen your own knives? *Yes, I try with a rod (honing steel) with some success.*

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? *Yes. Though an instructional video I watched using several wet stones looked hard to get set up for and master.*

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? *Yes.*


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I was tricked into believing the Bulat on Kickstarter was an affordable miracle. I stopped short of ordering but got far enough along the process to ask the wife if she had any interest in a better knife for our kitchen. She approved the purchase immediately, so I have budgetary approval to proceed... but I'd love other recommendations 

Thanks
Nacayoda

The old...


----------



## ThEoRy (Jul 1, 2016)

Gesshin Uraku 210mm wa gyuto. It's a stainless knife. Reasonably thin without being anorexic. Sharpens easily and holds a respectable edge. Yes, you will need to sharpen it or any other knife. No, a honing rod does not sharpen anything. By the way, which instructional video did you watch?


----------



## James (Jul 1, 2016)

Australia eh? Have a very good look at the offerings from Knives and Stones. Tojiro powdered steel and Tanaka VG10 seem like good candidates.


----------



## chefcomesback (Jul 1, 2016)

ThEoRy said:


> Gesshin Uraku 210mm wa gyuto. It's a stainless knife. Reasonably thin without being anorexic. Sharpens easily and holds a respectable edge. Yes, you will need to sharpen it or any other knife. No, a honing rod does not sharpen anything. By the way, which instructional video did you watch?



Op is located in Australia and shipping alone will be $50 or more , i would recommend checking knives and stones kurosaki selections


----------



## ThEoRy (Jul 1, 2016)

Missed that part. Looks like James is a good bet then. He does have stainless Tanakas sometimes.


----------



## DanHumphrey (Jul 1, 2016)

Gonna sound like a broken record:

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tojiro-powdered-high-speed-steel-gyuto-chef-210mm-f-520/

Or its big brother.


----------



## nacayoda (Jul 1, 2016)

ThEoRy said:


> Gesshin Uraku 210mm wa gyuto. It's a stainless knife. Reasonably thin without being anorexic. Sharpens easily and holds a respectable edge. Yes, you will need to sharpen it or any other knife. No, a honing rod does not sharpen anything. By the way, which instructional video did you watch?



I think I saw this one: [video=youtube;Ft93ncEBpGo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft93ncEBpGo[/video]
Does it include steps regarding "squaring" the stones too? This was also a little intimidating!


----------



## nacayoda (Jul 2, 2016)

I like the look of this cheaper model too. http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-vg10-damascus-gyuto-210mm-western-handle/ 
Apparently I'm a sucker for the damascus, but I'm sure I should be trying to ignore it. I wonder what it weighs (my Baccarat is 180g).

The TOJIRO Powdered High Speed Steel Gyuto / Chef 210mm F-520 is a very handsome looking tool indeed too.

I have a relative in Japan who's coming back to visit in August... are local prices lower in JP?


----------



## chiffonodd (Jul 2, 2016)

DanHumphrey said:


> Gonna sound like a broken record:
> 
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/tojiro-powdered-high-speed-steel-gyuto-chef-210mm-f-520/
> 
> Or its big brother.



+1 won't do better at the price point and domestic shipping is the clincher


----------



## Ruso (Jul 2, 2016)

Little bit over your budget, but a good choice to consider. Takamura R2 210mm
http://www.chuboknives.com/products/takamura-r2-gyutou-210mm-8-2#.V3fVNc_NFhF

Personal opinion, between Tanaka and Tojiro, go with Tanaka.


----------



## daveb (Jul 2, 2016)

Yes


----------



## Charon (Jul 2, 2016)

Does James still sell the ginsan Tanakas?


----------



## rick alen (Jul 2, 2016)

The Takamura takes a better edge but Knives like the Tojiro PM hold it much longer, and are less chippy. The Tanaka, well it will likely have a better grind than the Tojiro, the Takamura is a laser of course. Japanese Ho wood handled knives are ridiculously light compared to the typical [Japanese] western handled knife, you might find that attractive.

Personal prerogatives are going to be the deciding factors here, decisions, decisions.



Rick


----------



## Matus (Jul 2, 2016)

I would recommend calling (or email) James from knives and stones - he is a really nice guy (I am in contact with him over past few days) and answers quickly. 

Tojiro DP (VG-10 steel) knvives are great value but thanks to their heavy (full tang and steel bolster) and rather large handle tend to be butt-heavy. But the VG-10 from Tojiro has a good heat treatment and takes and holds a nice edge. I have not used the PM (stand for powder metallurgy - different process to make steel that yields more homogeneous and final grain steel, however PM is just the name of the process, not a type of steel) and yes it will have great edge retention.

If you can spend a little more, than something like stainless-clad carbon steel (like for example the Syousin Chiku from James)_ would give you more joy IMO. But yes, this is subjective of course.


----------



## Ruso (Jul 2, 2016)

rick alen said:


> The Takamura takes a better edge but Knives like the Tojiro PM hold it much longer, and are less chippy.



Why do you say Tojiro will hold the edge longer? Takamura R2 is made of, well R2, which is a PM steel. Also chances are that Tojiro DP is R2 as well. I find that Takamura's edge retention is very good. Best of any other knife I own.


----------



## DanHumphrey (Jul 2, 2016)

Charon said:


> Does James still sell the ginsan Tanakas?



He's been out for a while and won't be getting more, as it seems.


----------



## Ruso (Jul 2, 2016)

Ruso said:


> Also chances are that Tojiro DP is R2 as well.


 <--- Meaning Tojiro PM


----------



## daveb (Jul 2, 2016)

I may have misread but I thought he's showing in stock now.


----------



## DanHumphrey (Jul 2, 2016)

We may be talking about different knives... this is the one I meant:

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tana...o-240mm-with-custom-octagonal-bubinga-handle/

And this thread made me think there would not be more:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/25129-Tanaka-Ginsanko-Nashiji-Gyuto-Restock

And I forget where I read it, but somewhere I read that Tanaka started using VG-10 for their newer stainless knives. What knives are you looking at that are in stock?


----------



## daveb (Jul 2, 2016)

Never mind. I looked while I was awake and it ain't so.


----------



## miccro (Jul 3, 2016)

Hi- i have a new Kohetsu 240mm Gyuto- Blue #2 steel core, clad outer and im in Australia - if interested i can dig it out and send you some photos- 

i actually bought 2 of them at same time- one went to my Girlfriend to spare my more pricy knives - but as its always within arms reach ive used it a lot- surprisingly a really great cutter, easy to sharpen and as the clad is non reactive easy to care for.

mike


----------



## miccro (Jul 3, 2016)




----------



## Charon (Jul 3, 2016)

That is a tadafusa nashiji rebrand. You can get them on eBay BlueWayJapan too


----------



## miccro (Jul 3, 2016)

measured it- its a 210 not a 240.. decent cheap carbon, 

Id also look at japanesechefknife .com - Koki is a really nice guy to deal with and fast delivery from japan to Aus. Had lots of knives from them and never an issue

mike


----------



## rick alen (Jul 3, 2016)

Ruso said:


> Why do you say Tojiro will hold the edge longer? Takamura R2 is made of, well R2, which is a PM steel. Also chances are that Tojiro DP is R2 as well. I find that Takamura's edge retention is very good. Best of any other knife I own.



Ruso, you've been around here how long, and you think there is a chance that the Tojiro DP is R2, or any other for of PM steel?


----------



## Ruso (Jul 3, 2016)

rick alen said:


> Ruso, you've been around here how long, and you think there is a chance that the Tojiro DP is R2, or any other for of PM steel?



It was a typo, please read 1 post below. Obviously DP's steel is not a secret, it's VG10.


----------

