# Kasumi Polishing - why it happens/tips/recommended stones?



## mikedtran (Jun 29, 2016)

Kasumi Polishing - why it happens/tips/recommended stones?

I spent a ton of timing working on refinishing my Itonomonn butcher from what I believe was a rough 80 grit finish to a rough kasumi finish.

Step 1: *JNS 300* (s&g, medium hard, synthetic) - was on this stone for quite as a while as there was a good number of low spots on the wide bevel. This stone leaves a relatively similar finish on higane (core) and jigane (clad)
Step 2: *JNS 800* (soaker / muddy / synthetic) - this stone was a pleasure to work the wide bevels on and left a good constrast between the higane and jigane
Step 3a (right side of blade): *Blue Aoto* (muddy, natural) - found this worked best with just enough water to create mud - left a nice constrast on higane and jigane, but can still see some scratch marks
Step 3b (left side of blade): *Khao Men* (smooth, natural) - fun to sharpen on, left very little contrast between jigane and higane

*Learnings & Tips:*
-Lighter pressure on the synthetics, and once mud was formed on the natural also lighter pressure left for a better finish
-With a small bevel like that on the butcher I found mud/stone grit running onto the blade and roughing up my fingers, I put on bandaids on my index/middle finger to counteract this

*Question:*
-Why does the contrast/kasumi finish happen? Is it that some of the grits is not hard enough to scratch the core steel or is it the ph in the stone that has some effect as well?
-What stones do you all recommend for kasumi finishing? 

*Next Steps*
-Try my Nakayama Namito, but I think it is too hard so it doesn't leave a even/streak free finish at my current skill level at polishing
-Try my Okudo Renge Suita - very excited for this!


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*Stones I have:*
JNS 300, 800, 1000, Red Aoto, and 6000
Chosera 800
Kramer 3000 (aka Chosera 3000 but thinner)

Thai Binsui
Khao Men
Blue Aoto
Okudo Renge Suita (on the way)
Nakayama Namito Koppa (Japan-tools)


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## Matus (Jun 29, 2016)

I would guess that the step from JNS 800 to medium-fine grit natural stone is too large and you do not manage to remove all the scratches from the previous steps. I would add a finer stone in between.

It may be easier to go through procession of wet sanding paper (180 up to 1200 give or take) instead of sharpening stones and then once more-less mirror polished switch to natural stones to get the nice contrast. Just make sure you remove all previous scratches at each grit (keep changing the sanding angle to be able to recognise that).


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## Matus (Jun 29, 2016)

The contrast happen because of the difference in hardness. Given grit of sharpening stone will leave deeper / more prominent scratches on the soft cladding than on the core steel. At certain grit range this will yield to more-less polished edge, but cloudy cladding.


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## mikedtran (Jun 29, 2016)

Matus said:


> I would guess that the step from JNS 800 to medium-fine grit natural stone is too large and you do not manage to remove all the scratches from the previous steps. I would add a finer stone in between.
> 
> It may be easier to go through procession of wet sanding paper (180 up to 1200 give or take) instead of sharpening stones and then once more-less mirror polished switch to natural stones to get the nice contrast. Just make sure you remove all previous scratches at each grit (keep changing the sanding angle to be able to recognise that).



I'm thinking of going from JNS 300 -> JNS 800 -> 1000 grit sand paper -> 2000 grit sand paper -> Aoto
I could also do JNS 300 -> JNS 800 -> Chosera 3000 -> Aoto
Another option for an extra layer would be JNS 300 -> JNS 800 -> 1000 grit sand paper -> 2000 grit sand paper -> 3000 grit sand paper -> Aoto

It definitely wasn't a perfect finish and I saw some scratch marks, but it was fun to do my first real shot at Kasumi finish.


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## Matus (Jun 29, 2016)

I have never used Chosera 3000. In general I would use some muddy/soft stone (more along the lines of JNS 800) - maybe the JNS Red Aoto.

For the sand paper finish - have a look at the videos by Nick Wheeler on youtube. He explains it very well.


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## mikedtran (Jun 29, 2016)

Matus said:


> I have never used Chosera 3000. In general I would use some muddy/soft stone (more along the lines of JNS 800) - maybe the JNS Red Aoto.
> 
> For the sand paper finish - have a look at the videos by Nick Wheeler on youtube. He explains it very well.



+1 have watched those videos when I first refinished my "Kasumi" Shigefusas which are really Kasumi to begin with. I didn't do the crosshatch, but will do the switching directions for this blade.


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## aboynamedsuita (Jul 1, 2016)

mikedtran said:


> I spent a ton of timing working on refinishing my Itonomonn butcher from what I believe was a rough 80 grit finish to a rough kasumi finish.



:needpics:

Seriously would love to see, was thinking of doing the same/similar to mine


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## mikedtran (Jul 4, 2016)

Went at it again this morning.

This bevel was cleaned up of low spots on a JNS 300 (10-15 minutes) -> JNS 800 (had the best finish on the jigane) -> JNS Aoto -> Natural Blue Aoto. My Okudo Suita arrives later this week so I will finish the bevel polish on that stone. I think it looks alright but there is still significant scratch pattern from the natural Blue Aoto.










tjangula said:


> :needpics:
> 
> Seriously would love to see, was thinking of doing the same/similar to mine


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## mikedtran (Jul 4, 2016)

Also any feedback or tips welcome, I think I still have some "streaky lines" running close to parallel to the edge. Should I be applying even less pressure? I'm currently letting the stone get very muddy.


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## XooMG (Jul 4, 2016)

Looks decent for a working finish. I cannot justify getting into the expensive finishers just to try a dozen stones before finding one that finishes the way I like, so I've stuck with lower grit working finishes.

Sometimes though, a little surprise banding will peek through the cladding and I'd be curious to see if further polishing would bring it out. Too subtle to photograph or even see clearly at the current finish.

Shame I'm too lazy.


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## mikedtran (Jul 4, 2016)

What stones are you finishing with Robert?

Highlighted one of the "streaky lines" I have on my bevel finish.


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## XooMG (Jul 4, 2016)

I finish with whatever strikes my fancy...that Carter pic I took was with the Thai khao men stone, I think. I have also gotten OK results with hakka or nakayama slurry on my igarashi-labeled binsui, which cuts fast when freshly lapped but seems to slow down after a bit of "breaking in".

I'm no polisher, so don't take my opinions seriously. The lines you get remind me of what I get from synthetics like the JNS 6k. They irritate me because I can sometimes chase them down on the stone and remove them, only for new streaks to appear. With my aiiwatani, the wide bevels seem to pull out little scratchy chunks of the surface, so I rarely bother unless using it for slurry on another stone. Good results from sharpening generally, but I have poor luck with polishing big bevels.


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## Badgertooth (Jul 4, 2016)

Yeah polishing is a combination of deeply rewarding and utterly frustrating. I have a little aoto that behaves similarly but improves if you slurry up a good mud beforehand with a diamond plate. That said, it doesn't get much play now that I have my Monzento which I jump to after a King 800. Khao men or maruoyama shiro suita next. It's more work to get an even finish on the suita but the finish is slightly more contrasted.

I've undone a lot of work with this progression by using a harder finisher (nakayama). Which beautifully polishes the core and never hits the lows you've worked diligently to mask with softer stones so you're left with a patchy finish. I am trying out lifting the bevel ever so slightly to hit only the core on a finisher but there's a bit of a learning curve.


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## YG420 (Jul 4, 2016)

I have chosera stones and use a progression of 1000-3000-5000- snow white 8000 and then hit it with fingerstones. Sometimes if i want more of a mirror finish, I'll strop it on a loaded leather strop then hit it with fingerstones.


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## mikedtran (Jul 4, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> Yeah polishing is a combination of deeply rewarding and utterly frustrating. I have a little aoto that behaves similarly but improves if you slurry up a good mud beforehand with a diamond plate. That said, it doesn't get much play now that I have my Monzento which I jump to after a King 800. Khao men or maruoyama shiro suita next. It's more work to get an even finish on the suita but the finish is slightly more contrasted.
> 
> I've undone a lot of work with this progression by using a harder finisher (nakayama). Which beautifully polishes the core and never hits the lows you've worked diligently to mask with softer stones so you're left with a patchy finish. I am trying out lifting the bevel ever so slightly to hit only the core on a finisher but there's a bit of a learning curve.



How do you like the Khao men finish? From my brief use I found it did not leave a strong contrast between jigane and hagane. 



YG420 said:


> I have chosera stones and use a progression of 1000-3000-5000- snow white 8000 and then hit it with fingerstones. Sometimes if i want more of a mirror finish, I'll strop it on a loaded leather strop then hit it with fingerstones.



This method would save a ton on buying expensive natural stones hahah.


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## Badgertooth (Jul 4, 2016)

mikedtran said:


> How do you like the Khao men finish? From my brief use I found it did not leave a strong contrast between jigane and hagane.
> 
> 
> 
> This method would save a ton on buying expensive natural stones hahah.



I like it on two counts:

1. Evenness and the ease with which that evenness is attained. But I'm less fussed on the depth of contrast. Though I do sometimes just want to leave the edge with the King 800 contrast because it looks nice.

2. The working edge.

To yg240's point. You could get stellar cosmetic results with synths. JNS800 or King 800, a synthetic aoto or a JKI jinzo aoto. Then a Takenoko to finish. And you could get a great edge polish with a loaded strop.


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## mikedtran (Jul 8, 2016)

I got my Okudo Suita in today and took a go with it! Feels good and leaves a good semi-mirror finish though I get streaks still and the contrast isn't at the level I wanted so I went back over it with a fingerstone (that had tons of renge). I spent a bit more time on the left side of the blade so it is a bit darker, also had some loose grit on that side so scratch the cladding when I was fingerstoning.

How do you get an even finish on stones that aren't super muddy like Aotos?

*Okudo Suita + Fingerstone:*





*Knife:*


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## Sharpchef (Jul 8, 2016)

Create a slurry with DMT/Atoma diamond plates......

Use only high pressure to start (when mud gets darker you can do it with less) and finish with nearly no pressure.

Greets Sebastian.


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## mikedtran (Jul 8, 2016)

Sharpchef said:


> Create a slurry with DMT/Atoma diamond plates......
> 
> Use only high pressure to start (when mud gets darker you can do it with less) and finish with nearly no pressure.
> 
> Greets Sebastian.



Thanks for the tip! I started with some high pressure though I think I should probably work up more of mud =)


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