# Party in the 1K



## Xenif (May 6, 2018)

There are probably more choices of stones in 1k than any other grit. 

What are the characteristics of a "good" 1K stone for you? And of the ones you have tried which one(s) stood out as the one(s) for you?


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## labor of love (May 6, 2018)

So far gesshin 1200 and watanabe AI 1k are my faves. Havent used a king hyper yet but theyre heavily favored these days. Wat 1k cuts pretty damn fast and doesnt really clog or wear much at all, and is no soak splash and go. Gesh 1200 just has a good combination of speed and feedback, works quick and feels good-but the stone does wear. Im really curious about the gesshin no soak 600, which will probably be the next mid grit I pick up.


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## RDalman (May 6, 2018)

A fast stone will do for me... Almost through my chosera 1k, and will replace it with shapton 1k. btw tried the shapton 1k and wat side by side in germany recently and they're REALLY similar (identical to me)


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## galvaude (May 6, 2018)

Bester 1000 and King 1200 are my favorites. I have a Naniwa Pro that I never cared too much about. Started on a super stone 1000, hated it but used it all anyway. I like 1k stones on the coarser side.


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## Carey59 (May 7, 2018)

Xenif said:


> There are probably more choices of stones in 1k than any other grit.
> 
> What are the characteristics of a "good" 1K stone for you? And of the ones you have tried which one(s) stood out as the one(s) for you?



Feedback- low need for pressure- speed- hardness, in that order.

I'm thinking of a Hyper 1k or Chosera 800 right now, myself..


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## masibu (May 8, 2018)

Different strokes for different folks really. One of my favourites starting out was the sigma power 1200 as you could really put some pressure on and grind new bevels as well as it stayed pretty flat. Ive since sold it and dont know where you can purchase. Chosera was a very pleasurable one to use too but again sold it off to try other stones. Over time ive just happened to be going with the king deluxe 1000 as i now set my bevels with coarser stones anyway so the need for speed and hardness is less important to me now. I have a shapton pro 1k which is faster and probably slightly coarser but the king leaves a cleaner edge for me and is less prone to creating large burrs if im going too hard or not paying attention. 

Whats the deal with these hyper stones? Are they similar to the sigma power 2 1000 grit stone im terms of muddiness and speed? They were both designed to cut highly alloyed/stainless steel right?


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## aaamax (May 8, 2018)

Xenif said:


> There are probably more choices of stones in 1k than any other grit.
> 
> What are the characteristics of a "good" 1K stone for you? And of the ones you have tried which one(s) stood out as the one(s) for you?



fast cut, no dish, not too deep a scratches along with a decent feel without chalk on chalkboard.
Picked up a JNS 800 from Spipet a while back that ticks all the boxes for me in the 1k range.
Cheers


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## Panamapeet (May 8, 2018)

aaamax said:


> fast cut, no dish, not too deep a scratches along with a decent feel without chalk on chalkboard.
> Picked up a JNS 800 from Spipet a while back that ticks all the boxes for me in the 1k range.
> Cheers



Good to hear!!


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## K813zra (May 8, 2018)

A balance of cutting speed, dish resistance and feedback in that order. Being splash and go is a big, big plus because a 1k comes out when I need more than just a touch up and I may not be prepared for it at the time. That is why I like splash and go in general. 

Honestly, with 1k and below stones I am not super picky. Actually I guess I am not super picky at all. I have found very, very few stones I actually despised. Other stones I could see where I did not want to use them on a daily basis or decided that they were not for me but could still see value in them for someone else in a different situation. Point is, I like sharpening stones in general...lol.

My go to 1k is a SP1k simply because it works, it is cheap and I have had one in one form or another for a long time. Second would be a king hyper.


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## panda (May 8, 2018)

Chosera 800


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## Sharpchef (May 8, 2018)

RDalman said:


> A fast stone will do for me... Almost through my chosera 1k, and will replace it with shapton 1k. btw tried the shapton 1k and wat side by side in germany recently and they're REALLY similar (identical to me)



They are the same stones.... 100% sure. In Japan Shapton sells it with base... The Watanabe 1k base is just laquered.....( the only difference)

And i had Chosera 800 and 1k and the Shapton is faster but rougher.... 

Greets Sebastian.


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## panda (May 8, 2018)

Shap pro/wat 1k feels like crap but is hella fast


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## Carey59 (May 8, 2018)

panda said:


> Shap pro/wat 1k feels like crap but is hella fast



That was my experience with the Shapton Pro 1k- at first. I thought I'd found the holy 
grail, in terms of cutting speed anyway. But it stopped working, and I could not dress
it such that it really came back to life. Oh well! Good to know the AI 1k is
the same stone, as I'd thought of getting one.

One thing I like about the Chosera 3k is that it requires less pressure than most stones,
and I'm wondering if the 800 is similar in that way? Any comments on the feel of it
and the Hyper 1k (the harder one) would be much appreciated.


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## Pensacola Tiger (May 8, 2018)

My go to 1k diamond stone has just been replaced by a vitrified diamond 800. Both stones from JKI.


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## HRC_64 (May 8, 2018)

Carey59 said:


> One thing I like about the Chosera 3k is that it requires less pressure than most stones,
> and I'm wondering if the 800 is similar in that way?



Cho 800 has good range.

Versatile stone & 
no obvious flaws

(IMHO)


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## labor of love (May 8, 2018)

Still havent tried that chosera 3k, do you have any idea what grit it actually is?



Carey59 said:


> That was my experience with the Shapton Pro 1k- at first. I thought I'd found the holy
> grail, in terms of cutting speed anyway. But it stopped working, and I could not dress
> it such that it really came back to life. Oh well! Good to know the AI 1k is
> the same stone, as I'd thought of getting one.
> ...


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## Carey59 (May 8, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Still havent tried that chosera 3k, do you have any idea what grit it actually is?



I'd call it around a 4k stone, really. I was a bit slow to warm to it, but like it quite a lot now (for tools).
It and the Suzuki-ya 4k (same as Gesshin 4k I think) are my favorite middle stones at present.


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## JBroida (May 8, 2018)

Carey59 said:


> I'd call it around a 4k stone, really. I was a bit slow to warm to it, but like it quite a lot now (for tools).
> It and the Suzuki-ya 4k (same as Gesshin 4k I think) are my favorite middle stones at present.



I would be surprised if they were the same... its an ambiguous white stone, but its one that uses a very unique type of abrasive that I havent seen in many stones outside of a few of the ones I had made for the Gesshin lineup.


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## labor of love (May 8, 2018)

panda said:


> Shap pro/wat 1k feels like crap but is hella fast



Feels better with light pressure tough guy.


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## Christian1 (May 8, 2018)

I am a big fan of the chosera 1k. Straight razor user here, so I don't use that much pressure but stone is very quick


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## Carey59 (May 8, 2018)

JBroida said:


> I would be surprised if they were the same... its an ambiguous white stone, but its one that uses a very unique type of abrasive that I havent seen in many stones outside of a few of the ones I had made for the Gesshin lineup.



OK. I was trying to give a point of reference, but have not used the Gesshin 4k, so point taken. 
I will say that the stone I mentioned is an unusually nice feeling one.


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## panda (May 8, 2018)

Hyper is faster than cho800 but Cho feels better

I need to try gesh 2k


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## Keith Sinclair (May 9, 2018)

These days using the King Hyper at home makes good contrast on my KU carbons finish off on 4K gesshin soaker. Both stones keep perma soaked.

At school hands down Gesshin 1K extra large. Sharpen everything on that stone.


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## masibu (May 9, 2018)

If we are gonna talk about slightly lower grits then I would add the suehiro cerax 700 to the mkx (havent used the new cerax 800 but I get the impression its a harder stone). Its reasonably cheap but its a soaker if thats a problem for you. Feels better than the shapton pro 1k and probably leaves a similar finish though I would have to double check that. You can work up a bit of mud on it if you want but by no means does it dish quickly. Leaves a pretty aggressive edge if used to finish german knives or victorinox- ive been playing around with it on boning knives in particular. Ideal set up for me was leaving it to soak alongside a suehiro 320 and sigma power 2000 or 3000. The 2000 is a bit harder than the 3000 and leaves a pretty good working edge for quality stainless if you don't mind the aggression.


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## labor of love (May 9, 2018)

@masibu thanks for the cerax 700 comments. I was actually just looking at those, couldnt find much discussion about them at all.


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## Duckfat (May 9, 2018)

Cho 1k. If I had to replace it I'd go with the Cho 800 just to mix it up.


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## harlock0083 (May 9, 2018)

I've tried Bester, Chosera, King, Shapton Glass and Shapton pro. I've settled on using an Atoma 1200 now. I feel like I'm getting the most consistent result with the Atoma than the other 1k stones I've tried.


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## HRC_64 (May 9, 2018)

harlock0083 said:


> I've tried Bester, Chosera, King, Shapton Glass and Shapton pro. I've settled on using an Atoma 1200 now. I feel like I'm getting the most consistent result with the Atoma than the other 1k stones I've tried.



I've heard several people and science of sharp also 
said 1200-ish diamond plate leaves a good edge

What do you follow up with in your sequence, 
to remove the scratches...etc?


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## harlock0083 (May 9, 2018)

Chosera 3k, Suehiro 8k and then a leather strop (loaded with a diamond spray), 

Pretty much settled on this setup now. I had a 5k stone in between but didn't find it that useful. I have found the burr to be a little more stubborn coming off the Atoma though.


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## masibu (May 9, 2018)

labor of love said:


> @masibu thanks for the cerax 700 comments. I was actually just looking at those, couldnt find much discussion about them at all.



Yeah there is practically no info out there for this stone, hence my curiousity. I had mine soaking indefinitely and had no issues with cracking etc. It just made it feel even better during use as it would soften up. Doesn't feel as rough as the shapton pro 1k or even the bester 700 (which is also a soaker but feels more dense/hard than the cerax). Only reason I'm not using it as much now is because im playing around with my naturals again. I think I honestly prefer my synthetics though so far as im using stainless blades atm


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## labor of love (May 9, 2018)

Masibu, Im in the same boat for sure. Much prefer synths. I know this is off topic but I just wanted to know how the cerax 700 compares to chosera 400? Slightly more refined edge, maybe not as good feedback, equal cutting speed?


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## K813zra (May 9, 2018)

Speaking of stainless and naturals, my stainless blades almost never touch a stone that isn't an Aizu. Not a 1k replacement by any means but then I don't, as a home cook, really have a need to drop down to a 1k very often. 

That said, I normally make the jump into naturals at or right after the 2k mark as I find most of my naka-to to be on par with or finer than that in terms of edge refinement.


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## masibu (May 9, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Masibu, Im in the same boat for sure. Much prefer synths. I know this is off topic but I just wanted to know how the cerax 700 compares to chosera 400? Slightly more refined edge, maybe not as good feedback, equal cutting speed?



Unfortunately I haven't had the luxury of using a chosera 400 but I would imagine the edge would be a bit more refined. I had actually bought it hoping to find something similar to the super stone 400 I had once upon a time. I found it to be a bit harder than the ss400 (no issues with gouging the stone) and a bit thirstier hence why I was just leaving it soaked indefinitely. Feedback is excellent for me and a brief lap with an atoma plate preps up mud reasonably quickly but non excessively so. Its a good happy medium in this respect

Once soaked it doesnt tend to need a lot more water, especially compared with a beston 500. The stone is at least twice as thick as the shapton pro 1k and maybe 1.5x the beston? I think ive written down some measurements on arrival somewhere though so I can confirm that. When I've got the time I'll put a review up and try to include comparisons to my king 1000 (its faster, harder and more resistant to gouging), shapton 1k and beston 500. It doesn't have issues with loading once its soaked but if you try to use it as a splash and go you will probably be disappointed as it will load rather easily without at least a brief dip in the pool.

As I occasionally sharpen knives for other people (mostly victorinox or something german-esque) it makes for a pretty solid work stone as I can finish their knives on this stone and jump from this to the sigma 2 or 3 for myself. I don't usually need to go lower than the 700 for my own knives once I've broken into a knife and put my own edges on however I like to have the option of something coarser for dead knives (or very poorly sharpened/over steeled/stressed knives). You can use the cerax 700 to set bevels but it takes a bit longer if you're dealing with dead knives.

I keep a norton combo stone handy in those instances so I can grind harder if required (not so useful for wide bevels though on japanese knives). As alternatives i do have a shapton 220 and a king 300 as well since giving my suehiro to a friend (along with others) for his birthday and congrats to for his new job (any excuse to buy new stones). The king 300 fills this role well however its not a soaking stone so im probably gonna look at the cerax 320 to compare to the king and my old suehiro chemical as I tend to just leave my stones soaking at work.


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## zitangy (May 16, 2018)

The King hyper 1k cuts faster than the Naniwa or shapton stones in that range and doesnt dish easily . Best used with a 400grit. (mine is a generic) when the the results are too slow in forth coming...

it really leaves a very decent cutting edge and better after a jump to any finishing stone..


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## labor of love (May 16, 2018)

zitangy said:


> The King hyper 1k cuts faster than the Naniwa or shapton stones in that range and doesnt dish easily . Best used with a 400grit. (mine is a generic) when the the results are too slow in forth coming...
> 
> it really leaves a very decent cutting edge and better after a jump to any finishing stone..



Yes. But does the hyper NOT do too well?


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## panda (May 16, 2018)

masibu, how fast is suehiro chemical 320? and how is the feedback? dishing? ive been wanting to try this one


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## JBroida (May 16, 2018)

zitangy said:


> The King hyper 1k cuts faster than the Naniwa or shapton stones in that range and doesnt dish easily . Best used with a 400grit. (mine is a generic) when the the results are too slow in forth coming...
> 
> it really leaves a very decent cutting edge and better after a jump to any finishing stone..



Im not sure I agree with that.... Ive found it to be fast cutting and nice feeling but pretty fast dishing


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## valgard (May 16, 2018)

JBroida said:


> Im not sure I agree with that.... Ive found it to be fast cutting and nice feeling but pretty fast dishing



I'll piggyback here, don't notice for strictly edge sharpening (don't do long 1K sharpening sessions) but it's rather obvious when doing any wide bevel. Feeling, speed, and even finish/edge are great tho.


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## labor of love (May 16, 2018)

Finally some constructive criticism of the king hype stone.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 16, 2018)

Like I said another plus is good for contrast on soft iron.


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## kostantinos (May 16, 2018)

I took Jon opinion when i upgraded and went with the 2k gesshin and 6 k gesshin for a finisher . I feel that carbon play really well with those and gyutos best at 2k edge for normal pro gyuto use IMHO. I wanna agree with Jon also on the King set 1k , i found it a pretty good stone with the same problem which is dishing fast . Other than that i thought that kings in general feel good for the most part and give you a very decent edge .


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## masibu (May 21, 2018)

panda said:


> masibu, how fast is suehiro chemical 320? and how is the feedback? dishing? ive been wanting to try this one



From my experience with the chemical it seemed to be pretty hard on initial use but over time it broke down easier. I think it needs a good lapping before use to essentially grind down the "crust" on the outside. It didn't feel like it was particularly fast cutting initially but once you get deeper into the stone it muds up much easier and started cutting better. 

It's nowhere near as soft/dish prone as the shapton 300 but not quite as hard as the king 300. Feedback was pretty reasonable for a coarse stone and it can take a fair bit of pressure. I doubt there would be much risk in gouging the stone unless you're doing something seriously wrong. I haven't used the stone for a long time and that was just bevel setting so my memory is a little fuzzy when it comes to wide bevels/thinning but again somewhere between the king and the shapton in cutting speed but it depends on the contact area of the blade to the stone and the pressure used. 

The shapton sheds grit pretty readily with moderate force even with large contact areas (and dishes badly with bevel setting for example as it sheds grit excessively). The king doesnt shed grit nearly as easily meaning you can put more pressure onto the stone and grind more efficiently. If you sharpen with low force on a large contact area it will be less effective than the shapton though as the grit will start to round over instead of abrading. This only tends to happen if sharpening something pretty abrasion resistant though. 

The suehiro is probably somewhere in the middle all round. id rate it closer to the king in terms of "dishiness" but with better feedback. The cutting speed was pretty good for me as I tend to put a fair amount of force on coarse stones when thinning otherwise it can take forever. It can also be used for removing chips etc without difficulty and dishing too much.

Over time I seem to be more drawn to soaking stones that I can leave soaked somewhere at work as opposed to splash n goes (despite how awesome some splash stones are). I also hate the sharpening stands supplied with some stones. The good splash stones are usually much more expensive and even then I find a soak helps most splash stones anyway. id rather have something durable that isnt going to die from oversoaking. The suehiro chemical was pretty much perfect in that regard (for me at least) and I do regret letting go of it a bit but I enjoy trying out different stones and finding new progressions to fill different roles/needs. 

For stainless knives a full soak progression of suehiro 320 - cerax 700 - bester 2000/sigma 2000 is pretty affordable and covers most needs quite well. If you have carbon knives you may want an 8kish stone just for kicks but even that isn't required. Theres room in the bucket though to toss a sigma 8k in there as well if I ever buy one. I would try the rest of the cerax line if they didn't have stands on their stones.

I'm going to be doing some side by side comparisons in the coming weeks when i can slot in a day for my own sharpening "experiments". I'll post my findings on the forum if only for myself to look back on later. I'm waiting on k+s to restock the ginsan sukenari gyuto to order a cerax 320 at the same time for comparisons sake as well. I suspect that the cerax is probably a bit harder than the chemical and dishes less but im yet to use it.


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