# The 'Best' Gyuto Edge Length—225mm of course!



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

[Pardon the rather provocative thread title. Inspired to post this after much frustration from a bunch of recent threads, soliciting an abundance of questions, without offering a single opinion of his own. So, thought I’d do a rather opinionated post.]

*What’s your fave length? Curious on what other peoples length preferences for their go-to gyuto?*

Knife preferences are highly subjective and personal, there is now best ‘gyuto’ length, profile, maker, steel, etc. One cook’s unicorn gyuto is another’s donkey.

Length matters. During the past decade of buying gyutos of various lengths—180, 210, 225, 270—it’s been a journey chasing the gyuto length that parks perfectly into my wheelhouse.

For the way I cook/prep, 210s always felt too short, 270s overkill for regular meal, 240s are fine. However, 225 hits that delicious sweet spot for me, giving me enough edge length whether cooking for 2 or 20, nimbler than 240s. I still use my 240s and 270, buy the 225s are what I reach for more often than not.

Here’re four gyutos with 225mm edge lengths—Tsourkan WH, Kippington ‘work pony,’ Raquin KT, Takada. Don’t ask me which is best, they’re all exceptionally good gyutos.


----------



## LostHighway (Aug 7, 2020)

225 - 230mm for me, with <210 mm (185 - 207mm) being my second most used length. My 240s (240 - 250mm) are only occasionally my first choice. I don't own any 270s and have no desire for one. The qualifiers are that I'm only cooking for two 95% of the time and that I have limited counter and board space. Even given a huge kitchen I can't see myself reaching for knives over 230mm very often.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Aug 7, 2020)

Depends on the profile but 220-230 is optimal on my board size.


----------



## childermass (Aug 7, 2020)

No option to cover 180-200 so I will have to abstain from voting. Didn’t like any of the 210s I had.
Never got around to try a 225 yet but that’s high up my list.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Depends on the profile but 220-230 is optimal on my board size.



I dig the lengths of Sakai 240s, the Takada 240 has a 225 edge. What size board you use? I'm on a 17.3" x 11.4."


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

childermass said:


> No option to cover 180-200 so I will have to abstain from voting. Didn’t like any of the 210s I had.
> Never got around to try a 225 yet but that’s high up my list.


"180 or shorter" option closest, needed to make edit decision for poll.


----------



## ian (Aug 7, 2020)

I think your poll results are going to be skewed by the bias in the title. 

That said, I do like 225!


----------



## childermass (Aug 7, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> "180 or shorter" option closest, needed to make edit decision for poll.


Ok, vote placed. I do enjoy my Munetoshi Petty a lot so that’s not wrong either


----------



## IsoJ (Aug 7, 2020)

255 but for me it is more a balance that matters


----------



## MowgFace (Aug 7, 2020)

225-240 for me. 240 preferred, with 225 a very close second.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

ian said:


> I think your poll results are going to be skewed by the bias in the title.
> 
> That said, I do like 225!



Yes, I realize that very much. It's an intentional counterpoint to a recent thread I saw where poster simply asked unanswerable questions without offering a real opinion based on experience.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 7, 2020)

For getting **** done at work, 240MMish. For during service something 180-210MMish....


----------



## Tim Rowland (Aug 7, 2020)

225mm-230mm for me at work.
For home usually 210mm. Not a ton of counter space as the little lady usually has stuff piled up everywhere.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> For getting **** done at work, 240MMish. For during service something 180-210MMish....


Being a home cook I don't have the same requirements that a pro might have, therefore free to use whatever the heck I feel. Once used a 360 suji to make myself a snack, massive overkill, but fun!


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

Tim Rowland said:


> 225mm-230mm for me at work.
> For home usually 210mm. Not a ton of counter space as the little lady usually has stuff piled up everywhere.


What influences your length choice more—ingredients and amounts being prepped or counter space? Personally it's ingredients and amounts—i.e. for a big pile of greens I might use a longer knife, even on a smallish board.


----------



## AT5760 (Aug 7, 2020)

I don’t think I can answer the poll until I can try that Raquin - I’ll PM my address .


----------



## RDalman (Aug 7, 2020)

215


----------



## McMan (Aug 7, 2020)

I think 225. Unless it's 250. Either way, 210 and 240 are out of the running 
Exception #1: light knives. 270 helps bring the balance up the blade a bit. Shorter light knives sometimes feel odd to me in terms of balance because the handle holds so much of the weight.
Exception #2: badass 210s. I've had/tried a few 210s where they were stouter than 240s of the same maker. The balance was actually nicer on the 210s (right in front of the thumb in a pinch grip) whereas the 240 made the balance more blade-heavy (not a bad thing--just interesting because I bonded with the 210 more).


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

RDalman said:


> 215


You make many 215?


----------



## RDalman (Aug 7, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> You make many 215?


The 210s I make are usually 215 heel to tip yes. And that's my favourite at home, a heavy western honyaki.


----------



## parbaked (Aug 7, 2020)

childermass said:


> No option to cover 180-200 so I will have to abstain from voting.


Me too:




Seems I've mostly 180mm - 200mm knives...I hope that's my sweet spot.


----------



## ModRQC (Aug 7, 2020)

I see length less as an attribute of a knife towards my preferences than a choice I make just before going in a prep - a spur of the moment thing. I work with a lot of different lengths. 225mm seems best to me, but at the same time, having one now, I think there's something to be said for 240mm feeling more... I don't know. Like the flat area of the blade lasts forever - if a flat profile indeed. Also cool when working on proteins, a longer blade. But I also like 200-215mm very much.

Soon I'll be trying a shorter 180mm Gyuto for the first time - I think I will also love it.


----------



## ModRQC (Aug 7, 2020)

Always funny how so many people like 225mm Gyutos vs. how rare it is to find one vs. 210-240mm. What's wrong with these guys, can't they read the market?


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Always funny how so many people like 225mm Gyutos vs. how rare it is to find one vs. 210-240mm. What's wrong with these guys, can't they read the market?



For instance, my Takada, listed at 240, has an edge length of 225. 240 Sakai knives I've seen are often in the 225–230 ballpark. Also, not uncommon to see western gyuto makers coming out with 225–230s.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

parbaked said:


> Me too:
> View attachment 89653
> 
> Seems I've mostly 180mm - 200mm knives...I hope that's my sweet spot.


Nice!


----------



## ModRQC (Aug 7, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> For instance, my Takada, listed at 240, has an edge length of 225. 240 Sakai knives I've seen are often in the 225–230 ballpark. Also, not uncommon to see western gyuto makers coming out with 225–230s.



Yeah I know, we have longer 210mm and shorter 240mm that give a similar ballpark. However one must know of these. Rare are those that are sold up front as 225mm. And even among western makers, a lot of 9.5". Or using a different profile, like Victorinox that make 7-9" "slicer" Chef, and 8-10" regular Chef.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Yeah I know, we have longer 210mm and shorter 240mm that give a similar ballpark. However one must know of these. Rare are those that are sold up front as 225mm. And even among western makers, a lot of 9.5". Or using a different profile, like Victorinox that make 7-9" "slicer" Chef, and 8-10" regular Chef.


Yeah. The 240 Masamoto KS I have is more like 250!


----------



## Bcos17 (Aug 7, 2020)

I'm a big fan of 220-230mm gyutos. Here are 4 of my favorites in the 220-225 range, the Dalman and TF just a little under:


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

Bcos17 said:


> I'm a big fan of 220-230mm gyutos. Here are 4 of my favorites in the 220-225 range, the Dalman and TF just a little under:
> 
> View attachment 89657



Cool! Not dissimilar to my tastes in knives—nice Dalman/Birgersson Warikomi!


----------



## Tim Rowland (Aug 7, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> What influences your length choice more—ingredients and amounts being prepped or counter space? Personally it's ingredients and amounts—i.e. for a big pile of greens I might use a longer knife, even on a smallish board.



Really just what I used for years as a cook so it is what just feels natural to me when I have the board space and am actually using a knife....which for the last few years has not been a daily thing as I am usually doing more administrative stuff at work.


----------



## JBroida (Aug 7, 2020)

240.000000000000001 mm seems pretty much perfect.... but 240.000000000000002... that's some BS


----------



## ModRQC (Aug 7, 2020)

JBroida said:


> 240.000000000000001 mm seems pretty much perfect.... but 240.000000000000002... that's some BS



Is that why you never specify decimals on your website?


----------



## ModRQC (Aug 7, 2020)

So far I think the poll is not reflecting reality. I’ve seen a LOT of love around these parts for 240mm, and a fair bit of preference for 270mm too.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

JBroida said:


> 240.000000000000001 mm seems pretty much perfect.... but 240.000000000000002... that's some BS



Just a fun little poll. TBH, most of my knives are 240s, easy to find. 270s too long, 210s too short, ...for me.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Aug 7, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> I dig the lengths of Sakai 240s, the Takada 240 has a 225 edge. What size board you use? I'm on a 17.3" x 11.4."


22x16


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 7, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> 22x16


Dammit! I need a bigger kitchen to fit a board that size.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Aug 7, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Dammit! I need a bigger kitchen to fit a board that size.


Things are always bigger in TX

The bountiful real estate is great for moving and segregating different produce during prep


----------



## mc2442 (Aug 7, 2020)

Most of my gyutos are 240 but I have found myself reaching for smaller, hence the vote. I have plenty of board room at 16x22, but as a home cook for 1 most often I reach for something a bit smaller. I have a few 210's and a couple shorter gyutos, but by ownership 240 is the way to go I guess.

Edit: And I don't even have a large kitchen, just as a single am able to allocate the counterspace for a permanent board.


----------



## daveb (Aug 7, 2020)

Poll does not proivide for comment on height. 240 is exactly righr, most of time, but so is the 49mm.


----------



## zizirex (Aug 7, 2020)

at work, yes 240+ would be a perfect size. at home 225 is more comfortable overall, especially if you are lazy and just leave it on a cutting board until you finish eating.


----------



## nexus1935 (Aug 7, 2020)

I'm in the 225 boat as well - don't have the counter space for larger cutting boards that suit 240's.


----------



## Alder26 (Aug 8, 2020)

Normally at work I use a 240, but not too long ago I tried a 270 and loved it. Since then I found that prepping with a 270 feels kind of like driving a Bentley on a road trip (not that I'll ever do that). You look at 50lbs of onions or cabbage or whatever, and think "Might as well get comfy, I'm gonna be here for a while". Big ol' blade, big ol' bag of onions.

Then I got laid off

Cooking at home for the past couple weeks I have been using a 225X51 Y. Tanaka daily, and it couldn't be more perfect. The most interesting thing to me is that I've been really enjoying the lower heel height. Normally I gravitate to towards tall knives because I spent a lot of time chopping, but at home I want something that's a bit more versatile. Feels good slicing, as it does chopping, especially because I usually only have to do 1-3 onions, not 60. Jack of all trades.


----------



## tchan001 (Aug 8, 2020)

In the age of ma_sha1 modifications and the chase for the perfect personal preference, you'd have to worry that DitmasPork might be tempted to reprofile his awesome Denka 242mm to a profound Denka 225mm.


----------



## Byphy (Aug 8, 2020)

parbaked said:


> Me too:
> View attachment 89653
> 
> Seems I've mostly 180mm - 200mm knives...I hope that's my sweet spot.



Aye my old Kono! That Laseur on the end is gorgeous.

When I was working 240. Would want to try a 270 if I ever go back to a busy kitchen with heavy prep. At home, now that I can take my time, I enjoy using line knives to prep everything. Guess I'm weird like that.


----------



## Kippington (Aug 8, 2020)

240mm for me, but I can appreciate a good 225mm and smaller. They feel like a large petty in comparison.
I dislike the smaller flatspot on the shorter knives - that's where the 240 wins out. I'm probably going to make some 220-230mm knives with flatter profiles at some stage. At home I currently use a 240mm that had the tip break off in an accident, and at 196mm it still works really well. It looks like a k-tip bunka.

I've noticed that a lot of home users hold the knife further back on the handle compared to a typical pinch grip, with the index finger around the choil/neck instead of the middle finger. This might explain why some want a shorter blade, as you hardly use the last 20mm of the heel in a forward pinch grip, but it gets closer to becoming the 'sweet spot' if you hold the knife further back


----------



## ian (Aug 8, 2020)

It also depends a lot on what you’re used to, I suppose. I was mainly using the Tanaka Yohei that I have on BST at the moment, which is 227, and now I’m mainly using this awesome 240 workpony from @Kippington. After getting used to the Tanaka, the Kipp feels slightly too long. But I went back and tried the Tanaka yesterday and it now feels slightly too short. So at the moment probably my ideal is 231?  As I keep using the Kipp, I imagine my ideal knife length will converge to 240 as time goes to infinity. That said, the Tanaka did feel really perfect in length when I was using it a lot

I use a pretty classic choked up pinch grip, myself, giving the neck the middle finger.

TLDR: humans can, like, adapt.


----------



## Kippington (Aug 8, 2020)

ian said:


> TLDR: humans can, like, adapt.








__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Look, I know it's bad form posting this here - and I apologise - but if you watch these clips and _still_ tell me that 240mm is too big or unwieldy for the home kitchen, you've either got to be @CiderBear's height, or you've got 2 left thumbs (hah, lefties get some lovin' too )...


----------



## juice (Aug 8, 2020)

Kippington said:


> (hah, lefties get some love too )...


Great, you'll set @M1k3 - Mr Wronghanded himself - off again...


----------



## Michi (Aug 8, 2020)

225 mm sounds like perfection to me. I have a 210 mm gyuto, which I love to use. But, sometimes, it's just a tad short and wish for those extra 10-15 mm. If I reach for a 240, or a 255, I usually think "yes, that's long enough and works well." Except that those knives are just a bit too cumbersome for varied work. (I cook mostly for two or three people.) I often end up with both the 240/255 and another 180 knife on the bench because I need the long knife for only part of the work; for the remainder, it's easier and more convenient for me to use a shorter knife.

I have never used a 225. But I suspect that it might be my dream length. I bit more than the 210, but not so long to start to annoy me like a 240 or a 255.


----------



## ian (Aug 8, 2020)

225 is better because it signals to everyone that you’re a _real_ knife user who’s too smart and hip to use the more pedestrian 210 and 240 sizes.


----------



## Kippington (Aug 8, 2020)

Michi said:


> I have never used a 225. But I suspect that it might be my dream length


If the poll is anything to go by, you're missing out on straight gold there bubs.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 8, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> In the age of ma_sha1 modifications and the chase for the perfect personal preference, you'd have to worry that DitmasPork might be tempted to reprofile his awesome Denka 242mm to a profound Denka 225mm.


Hahaha! I live in a NYC apartment, only power tools I have are a VitaPrep-3 and a Kato. Interestingly, most of the gyutos I buy are 240s, no desire to modify length, would never want to. I love 240s, use them a lot, but preferring to use my 225s for the last year or so.


----------



## ModRQC (Aug 8, 2020)

When one looks at it with fresh eyes, in fact, no big difference between 210 and 225, nor between 225 and 240, and what if your 240 is more like 250mm... you could also buy a 270mm on the short. All this meaning that there's no real difference between a 180mm Gyuto and a 270mm, but perceptual. 

...


----------



## Kippington (Aug 8, 2020)

RDalman said:


> ...it's about the girth really.


----------



## ian (Aug 8, 2020)

Isn't that what we were talking about? 225mm girth seems totally normal to me, although my sample size is small.


----------



## rickbern (Aug 8, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Hahaha! I live in a NYC apartment, only power tools I have are a VitaPrep-3 and a Kato. Interestingly, most of the gyutos I buy are 240s, no desire to modify length, would never want to. I love 240s, use them a lot, but preferring to use my 225s for the last year or so.


Geez ditmas, if it wasn’t for the social distancing requirements I’d offer to let you use my workshop


----------



## Kippington (Aug 8, 2020)

That's the most New York thing I've ever seen. Impressive.


----------



## lemeneid (Aug 8, 2020)

All you non 240 users


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 8, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> When one looks at it with fresh eyes, in fact, no big difference between 210 and 225, nor between 225 and 240, and what if your 240 is more like 250mm... you could also buy a 270mm on the short. All this meaning that there's no real difference between a 180mm Gyuto and a 270mm, but perceptual.
> 
> ...



I know some people get really anal retentive about measurements. It doesn't matter much to me if there's a 10mm diff on length, don't care if a knife is 49mm or 53mm in height—what's more important is the performance characteristics and feel of a knife. Precise length is really not a consideration when I select a knife—for instance one of my 240s is lighter and nimbler than one of my 210s. With the four 225s I have, they all have diff personalities.


----------



## ModRQC (Aug 8, 2020)

Lucky it's not only one Gyuto with multiple personalities... surely you wouldn't want THAT running amok in your kitchen.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 8, 2020)

rickbern said:


> Geez ditmas, if it wasn’t for the social distancing requirements I’d offer to let you use my workshop View attachment 89725


Hahahah! Awesome. Dude, I really want that Herman Miller Aeron chair. But really, I can't imaging any reason at all to alter the length of any knife I have. I mean, it's not like I only have one gyuto I'm dependent on. To me, there's no such thing as a 'perfect knife,' which is partially what drives me to buy knives. That said, 225s are in my wheelhouse these days—I do toggle between 225s and 240s. Which area of Brooklyn are you?


----------



## Garm (Aug 8, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> don't care if a knife is 49mm or 53mm in height—what's more important is the performance characteristics and feel of a knife. Precise length is really not a consideration when I select a knife


Couldn't agree more. I've only ever measured one of my knives, and that was for the sake of comparing it to another knife from the same maker.


----------



## ModRQC (Aug 8, 2020)

Measuring knives is so fun. I don't like using them much though.


----------



## rickbern (Aug 8, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Hahahah! Awesome. Dude, I really want that Herman Miller Aeron chair. But really, I can't imaging any reason at all to alter the length of any knife I have. I mean, it's not like I only have one gyuto I'm dependent on. To me, there's no such thing as a 'perfect knife,' which is partially what drives me to buy knives. That said, 225s are in my wheelhouse these days—I do toggle between 225s and 240s. Which area of Brooklyn are you?


Live right across the street from Borough Hall. I'm assuming you're in Ditmas Park?


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 8, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Lucky it's not only one Gyuto with multiple personalities... surely you wouldn't want THAT running amok in your kitchen.





rickbern said:


> Live right across the street from Borough Hall. I'm assuming you're in Ditmas Park?



Yup, in Ditmas Park, I go through Borough Hall a lot, often at the FedEx across the street from it.


----------



## LostHighway (Aug 8, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> I know some people get really anal retentive about measurements. It doesn't matter much to me if there's a 10mm diff on length, don't care if a knife is 49mm or 53mm in height—what's more important is the performance characteristics and feel of a knife. Precise length is really not a consideration when I select a knife—for instance one of my 240s is lighter and nimbler than one of my 210s. With the four 225s I have, they all have diff personalities.



I think most of us would agree with you here, as per @JBroida up the thread. Both measured height and length often doesn't actually capture how the knife really feels in hand. That said, gross differences in dimensions are what they are. I don't think any amount of finessing the weight, balance, grind, profile, etc. of a 270 gyuto is going to make it feel like a 180 -200 gyuto, nor is a 250 gm 240mm gyuto likely to feel much like a 165 gm example of the same length. Harsh reality aside I still enjoy idle speculation and I still tend to prefer 220 - 230mm gyutos over longer knives.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 8, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> I think most of us would agree with you here, as per @JBroida up the thread. Both measured height and length often doesn't actually capture how the knife really feels in hand. That said, gross differences in dimensions are what they are. I don't think any amount of finessing the weight, balance, grind, profile, etc. of a 270 gyuto is going to make it feel like a 180 -200 gyuto, nor is a 250 gm 240mm gyuto likely to feel much like a 165 gm example of the same length. Harsh reality aside I still enjoy idle speculation and I still tend to prefer 220 - 230mm gyutos over longer knives.



Yes, agree with you. Also, polls are inherently flawed—this one just to get a generalized opinion. As I'd mentioned a few posts ago—length not a huge concern for me. I'll consider knives between 210–270, usually prioritizing maker, profile, steel, aesthetics (finish), weight, country of origin, rarity, ahead of length.


----------



## Matt Jacobs (Aug 8, 2020)

All my Japanese gyutos are 240 and my wife's westerns are 210. I would love to try a 225 Japanese style, I could see that being my daily driver


----------



## dafox (Aug 8, 2020)

Kippington said:


> 240mm for me, but I can appreciate a good 225mm and smaller. They feel like a large petty in comparison.
> I dislike the smaller flatspot on the shorter knives - that's where the 240 wins out. I'm probably going to make some 220-230mm knives with flatter profiles at some stage. At home I currently use a 240mm that had the tip break off in an accident, and at 196mm it still works really well. It looks like a k-tip bunka.
> 
> I've noticed that a lot of home users hold the knife further back on the handle compared to a typical pinch grip, with the index finger around the choil/neck instead of the middle finger. This might explain why some want a shorter blade, as you hardly use the last 20mm of the heel in a forward pinch grip, but it gets closer to becoming the 'sweet spot' if you hold the knife further back


Concerning the difference In Grip and knife size, Yup, exactly!


----------



## ExistentialHero (Aug 8, 2020)

270+ for me, and a lifetime of regret that I didn't snag that 300mm Raquin on BST a while back. I have plenty of room in my kitchen and I'm on the larger side (6'1"), so a well-balanced 270 is comfortable to use and ensures I never wish my knife was just a little bigger


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 8, 2020)

ExistentialHero said:


> 270+ for me, and a lifetime of regret that I didn't snag that 300mm Raquin on BST a while back. I have plenty of room in my kitchen and I'm on the larger side (6'1"), so a well-balanced 270 is comfortable to use and ensures I never wish my knife was just a little bigger


You use a 210 petty?


----------



## ExistentialHero (Aug 8, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> You use a 210 petty?



Yup, have one of those--it's awesome for hand work, skinning meat, etc.


----------



## parbaked (Aug 8, 2020)

I found that when I used a 240mm i wasted the last third of the blade especially since I don't rock anymore much...


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 8, 2020)

parbaked said:


> I found that when I used a 240mm i wasted the last third of the blade especially since I don't rock anymore much...



There are times when cooking for more than a few, a knife longer than 225 would be better. I used my 225 Marko for a supper party, it was definitely pushed. For the flank steak, a 240 would have made slicing easier with it's longer length—but stuck with the 225 because I didn't want to switch up knives during prep.


----------



## ModRQC (Aug 8, 2020)

240mm is really the ideal starting point of a good meat slicer, I fully agree on that. Possibly the only application where I'd look at 270-300mm of length - probably in the suji format, that said.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 8, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> 240mm is really the ideal starting point of a good meat slicer, I fully agree on that. Possibly the only application where I'd look at 270-300mm of length - probably in the suji format, that said.



Yup, personal preferences. A friend of mine is hardcore into 270 gyutos—way over the top for me. 220–240 is my comfort zone.


----------



## parbaked (Aug 8, 2020)

Slicing is another story...I was thinking about prep.
Check out the videos that @Kippington posted and note that only the front 2/3 of the blade is required to cut an onion or potato.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 8, 2020)

parbaked said:


> Slicing is another story...I was thinking about prep.
> Check out the videos that @Kippington posted and note that only the front 2/3 of the blade is required to cut an onion or potato.



With slicing I'm all over the map—got 230, 240 and a 270 suji. The 240 and 270 are my usual go-tos.


----------



## Benuser (Aug 8, 2020)

Herder 1922 in C75W is 230mm long, but has a fingerguard.


----------



## Ben.G. (Aug 9, 2020)

I prefer 250, but 240 will do.
It all depends on what you learned with. The restaurants that I first worked in all used 10 inch house knives. We used a 10” chef knife for everything! After so many years of using that length, I rarely ever reach for anything else, even with small jobs.
I like a 270 suji and sometimes grab the 300 beater at work to blast through protein prep. 

210 feels small and awkward for me. I use one on the line, but it is barely big enough to butterfly a sausage. I am not a big guy. (5’10”) I think your body size is irrelevant. All that matters is what you are used to.


----------



## Benuser (Aug 9, 2020)

Ben.G. said:


> I prefer 250, but 240 will do.
> It all depends on what you learned with. The restaurants that I first worked in all used 10 inch house knives. We used a 10” chef knife for everything! After so many years of using that length, I rarely ever reach for anything else, even with small jobs.
> I like a 270 suji and sometimes grab the 300 beater at work to blast through protein prep.
> 
> 210 feels small and awkward for me. I use one on the line, but it is barely big enough to butterfly a sausage. I am not a big guy. (5’10”) I think your body size is irrelevant. All that matters is what you are used to.


Body size is not irrelevant. Really short people — like me, 5'4 — better use longer blades for production work. With too short a blade I've to lift my elbow almost at shoulder height.


----------



## Ben.G. (Aug 9, 2020)

Benuser said:


> Body size is not irrelevant. Shorter people — like me — better use longer blades for production work. With too short a blade I've to lift my elbow almost at shoulder height.


Interesting. I never noticed this before. I assumed that the amount of knife lift was dependent on the food being cut, not the height of the user. I admit that I am having trouble picturing someone lifting their knife to shoulder height simply because the blade is a few centimetres shorter.
I also prefer longer blades for production because I can get more height in a rock chop for larger food items.

Edit: I misunderstood. Your elbow is higher because the angle of a shorter knife is steeper at the same height. I get it now. If this is an issue for you, then you might benefit from a lower workstation. Unfortunately, most restaurants are not so accommodating.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 14, 2021)

Still riding 225s. Thought I’d just post this, I’ve added 3 more 225s in the last year since starting the thread—newest ones are Heji, carbon; Migoto, w1, (226); Yanick.


----------



## Pachowder (Nov 14, 2021)

225 or 240. Unless you are 7 feet tall than 270...


----------



## btbyrd (Nov 14, 2021)

I don't have any 225s, but I think that's probably the sweet spot for me as well. I end up using 210s most of the time at home but break out the 240s when doing more prep and the 270es for big cabbages, melons, roasts, and whatever. 210s are fine in most situations, but there are definitely times when just a touch more length would feel more comfortable. Like many here, I'm not super particular about measurements on knives but I will say that my one 8" blade (a ZKramer) feels noticeably shorter than I prefer. So I do think an extra 10mm of length here or there can make a difference.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 14, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> I don't have any 225s, but I think that's probably the sweet spot for me as well. I end up using 210s most of the time at home but break out the 240s when doing more prep and the 270es for big cabbages, melons, roasts, and whatever. 210s are fine in most situations, but there are definitely times when just a touch more length would feel more comfortable. Like many here, I'm not super particular about measurements on knives but I will say that my one 8" blade (a ZKramer) feels noticeably shorter than I prefer. So I do think an extra 10mm of length here or there can make a difference.


I only have one 270, a Watanabe. Yeah, it comes out for coleslaw, where the extra length definitely helps.


----------



## Benuser (Nov 14, 2021)

Pachowder said:


> 225 or 240. Unless you are 7 feet tall than 270...


Especially for short people like myself a longer blade had the advantage, you don't have to raise the elbow than much.


----------



## btbyrd (Nov 14, 2021)

I have a 300mm Takeda that comes out whenever I just want to have fun.


----------



## stringer (Nov 14, 2021)

I missed this thread somehow. But the best length for a gyuto is 254mm. AKA 10 inches. That would be my vote.


----------



## MontezumaBoy (Nov 14, 2021)

What ever works ... better to not be concerned about having to clean another or grab another ... why not have a few of each (I get the financial bit but Starbucks @ $7/day adds up IMO) ... but hey who am I ... just another crazy knife obsessed home cook ... LOL

Heel height - now that is another / completely different (= actually the same) argument ... FWIW - Ditmas after seeing the food you produce I can only just agree with you anyway ...


----------



## javi_rome (Nov 14, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> I don't have any 225s, but I think that's probably the sweet spot for me as well. I end up using 210s most of the time at home but break out the 240s when doing more prep and the 270es for big cabbages, melons, roasts, and whatever. 210s are fine in most situations, but there are definitely times when just a touch more length would feel more comfortable. Like many here, I'm not super particular about measurements on knives but I will say that my one 8" blade (a ZKramer) feels noticeably shorter than I prefer. So I do think an extra 10mm of length here or there can make a difference.


Nice, we wanna see that 300mm Takeda


----------



## M1k3 (Nov 14, 2021)

Pachowder said:


> 225 or 240. Unless you are 7 feet tall than 270...


What about 6 feet tall and a lot of volume?
Asking for a friend.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 14, 2021)

stringer said:


> I missed this thread somehow. But the best length for a gyuto is 254mm. AKA 10 inches. That would be my vote.
> 
> View attachment 151981


Hmmm, I’ve never tried a gyuto with around 254mm. Why is it an optimum length for you?
I don’t have any gyutos with edges between 248–275. Might need to track one down, since I have 225s sorted.


----------



## stringer (Nov 14, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Hmmm, I’ve never tried a gyuto with around 254mm. Why is it an optimum length for you?
> I don’t have any gyutos with edges between 248–275. Might need to track one down, since I have 225s sorted.


Mainly just what I'm used to. My first knife in culinary school was a 10" Victorinox. All of the knives I used at my first couple jobs were restaurant supply 10". 240 is fine but feels a little short. 270 is fine but feels a little long (although the way I treat my knives I tend to buy 270s and after a few years they shrink into my preferred size of 255). And I still like vintage 10" French, German, and American knives obviously.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 14, 2021)

MontezumaBoy said:


> Heel height - now that is another / completely different (= actually the same) argument ... FWIW - Ditmas after seeing the food you produce I can only just agree with you anyway ...


Seems like I’m seeing more tall heel heights lately, like 55–58mm for 220–240s? I’m generally more comfy with 50–53.


----------



## daveb (Nov 14, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> What about 6 feet tall and a lot of volume?
> Asking for a friend.



Thanks. But I can ask for myself  

For me it's task dependent. At work, 240ish, I've had two made to 250 that were bout perfect. 270 if the pile is high and I have prep space. At home I can use a 210 or 240 but the 225 (Devin ITK) is my favorite. Looking at a 225 Marko Workhorse with lust in my eyes....


----------



## ModRQC (Nov 14, 2021)

Best edge length is 215mm.  






_Left to right: Maz W#2 (216/50) (blade and handle refinished); Sukenari AS (216/48), Wakui A#2 (215/48), Mabs (214/51) (blade refinished)_

One could say I ordered them (left to right) in function of length, or one could say I ordered them in function of narrowest to nosiest tip. 

Then I love 190mm...

And only then 225mm when I need it...

Just to stir things up.


----------



## jonnachang (Nov 15, 2021)

For prep I prefer my 240 mm knives and then for portioning or as a line knife it’s mostly 210 mm. Very rarely do I even use a 270 anymore. Cheers.


----------



## Bear (Nov 15, 2021)

It’s funny, when I fist started with Jknives I thought a 220 was big, after my first 265 a 240 feels like a 210. I really like the blade heavy feeling of my 270’s(255-265)but I’m not swinging them all day.


----------



## Cliff (Nov 15, 2021)

I'd say 255-265 is about perfect for a general use chef's knife. There's just something about the balance and leverage that I prefer. I am a home cook, but I'm often cooking for more than four people at a time. With bigger prep jobs, I tend to reach for a 270. If it's just me, or two or three people, I'll grab a 230-240 Gyuto, or a 210 Petty, Santoku, Bunka, whatever. I also think height measurements are more important than most people here seem to. Small differences in height make a big difference in how maneuverable a knife feels. A 240 KS feels like a long petty knife to me.

I had no problem with my 270 Misono Dragon in a small Prospect Lefferts kitchen -- but it does depend on layout almost as much as size.


----------



## Dzbiq (Nov 15, 2021)

240-250 mm gyuto / kiritsuke for me, with this size I can have nice pull-slice and enough to cut through watermelon or any big/hard fruit/vegetable, but it's not too long to be uncontrollable in the tip work


----------



## btbyrd (Nov 15, 2021)

javi_rome said:


> Nice, we wanna see that 300mm Takeda








More pics in the "Size Matters / Big Gyuto" thread.


----------



## Dzbiq (Nov 15, 2021)

I will show mine also (while we are in takeda pics  ) 249 mm


----------



## btbyrd (Nov 15, 2021)

Nice! I really want a 240 Takeda k-tip (or cleaver) with a big flat spot. I don't think he makes them though. Maybe ordering direct and making a special request?


----------



## PineWood (Nov 15, 2021)

Unfortunately Soshui stopped taking direct orders since august… you have to go through dealers now, and they are out of stock most of the time.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 15, 2021)

My smallest and longest gyutos—180 Takamura, and 270 Watanabe, iron clad (…more like 275).
Almost never use the Takamura, too short, can’t seem to feel comfy with it, useless for my needs; the Wat occasionally comes out for coleslaw, big greens, and cutting Apple Tarte at supper parties.


----------



## Cliff (Nov 15, 2021)

Do you use a bunka or a nakiri? For me, that Takamura would be like a petty with a little extra heel height for work on the board. I have a 180 Yoshi that fills that role, and I like it.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 15, 2021)

Cliff said:


> Do you use a bunka or a nakiri? For me, that Takamura would be like a petty with a little extra heel height for work on the board. I have a 180 Yoshi that fills that role, and I like it.



I have a nakiri, never wanted a bunka. 

I won that 180 Takamura at an MTC raffle, think I'm gonna give it to my wife. My typical setup is a petty/gyuto tandem, the 180 gyuto size is just too in between what I like. Sometimes I'll use a 180 Maz petty.


----------



## PtownPhil (Nov 15, 2021)

I think I might have a quirk. Any maker I know that makes a thin spine I won't go over 210. Only exception was a Kato G3. If it's 2.5mm at least I'll go up to 240. I'm 5'6" and my board is 11x17in.


----------



## Cliff (Nov 15, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> I have a nakiri, never wanted a bunka.
> 
> I won that 180 Takamura at an MTC raffle, think I'm gonna give it to my wife. My typical setup is a petty/gyuto tandem, the 180 gyuto size is just too in between what I like. Sometimes I'll use a 180 Maz petty.



I've never really been able to find a use for a 150mm petty. They're too big for in-hand work, and not big enough for the board. I use 210 suji/petties all the time and find a nakiri or bunka handy for the odd job. The pointy tip of a bunka gets in the way of pull cuts, but it's handy to have around for odd jobs.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 15, 2021)

Cliff said:


> I've never really been able to find a use for a 150mm petty. They're too big for in-hand work, and not big enough for the board. I use 210 suji/petties all the time and find a nakiri or bunka handy for the odd job. The pointy tip of a bunka gets in the way of pull cuts, but it's handy to have around for odd jobs.


I hear ya. Thankfully they make a good range of pettys to fit personal preference. I had a 135 Wakui petty, didn’t jive with the length, so gave it away (too lazy to sell it). Lot of it is familiarity, been using 150 pettys for about two decades—it’s my comfort zone. There’s my Sab parer if needing something smaller—I rarely have a need for in-hand work.


----------



## Cliff (Nov 15, 2021)

Totally. For in-hand, I have a Mac-pro paring knife that I use all the time.


----------



## tomsch (Nov 16, 2021)

I have a Fukushima-san 180mm gyuto that I tend to use more like a large paring knife for doing things like trimming cauliflower. Other than that I move to a 240mm. I may have to try a 225 in the future as my 210s don't see much use.


----------



## Jovidah (Nov 17, 2021)

After using them side by side for a while in different iterations I've finally come down on having a slight preference for 240 over 210. Tried shorter than 210 and they definitly start feeling too short for me. Don't think 270 would add much for the quantities I'm cutting (but who knows; maybe I'll try it someday). Never had a 'true' 225 but I don't mind a short Sakai 240.
What I pull out often depends on what I'm doing. If I'm doing 'proper cooking' it's usually a 240, but if all I'm doing is cutting a bunch of garlic cloves it feels a bit silly so if it's only small stuff I often pull out something small.


----------



## toast (Nov 18, 2021)

I always thought I wanted a 240 until I tried a 210. Now I’m thinking I prefer small, though I imagine in between is likely perfect - the thread title is right for once!


----------



## sumis (Nov 18, 2021)

232. 

.


----------



## captaincaed (Nov 18, 2021)

Whatever the length, I really think the "beefiness" should scale with length. A really thin knife focused on easy cutting seems best around 210, but if you size that up to 240/270 without changing the grind, it starts to feel a bit fragile.

210 for for delicate work, 250 for hard work, 225 when you can't make up your mind.


----------



## BillHanna (Nov 18, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> 210 for for delicate work, 250 for hard work, 225 when you can't make up your mind.


Thanks for this food for thought.


----------



## TSF415 (Nov 18, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> Whatever the length, I really think the "beefiness" should scale with length. A really thin knife focused on easy cutting seems best around 210, but if you size that up to 240/270 without changing the grind, it starts to feel a bit fragile.
> 
> 210 for for delicate work, 250 for hard work, 225 when you can't make up your mind.


I actually love my 270 hd2 for when I need to do large amounts of uniformed small dice veg. The thin grind is the best for the delicate work and the 260mm edge is necessary for 20qts of small small dice not taking all day.


----------



## captaincaed (Nov 18, 2021)

TSF415 said:


> I actually love my 270 hd2 for when I need to do large amounts of uniformed small dice veg. The thin grind is the best for the delicate work and the 260mm edge is necessary for 20qts of small small dice not taking all day.



That's very fair. I blame most of my comment on my own clumsiness.


----------



## OnionSlicer (Nov 18, 2021)

The best gyuto edge length is 1mm per 1lb of the user.

Currently I'm using oversized 240s, and I suspect it won't be too long before I move up to 270s


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 19, 2021)

OnionSlicer said:


> The best gyuto edge length is 1mm per 1lb of the user.
> 
> Currently I'm using oversized 240s, and I suspect it won't be too long before I move up to 270s


Hmmm, I’ve yet to find a 140mm gyuto for my kitchen.


----------



## xxxclx (Nov 19, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Hmmm, I’ve yet to find a 140mm gyuto for my kitchen.



How about a 150mm denka TFTFTFTFTFTF


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 19, 2021)

xxxclx said:


> How about a 150mm denka TFTFTFTFTFTF
> 
> View attachment 152672


 Hahahahaha! That's awesome, never knew TF did them small! TBH, perfectly happy with my 240 denka.


----------



## justaute (Nov 19, 2021)

I have a 220 (to-be-delivered) and a 230. 450/2=225. I have two 225!


----------



## Jovidah (Nov 21, 2021)

OnionSlicer said:


> The best gyuto edge length is 1mm per 1lb of the user.
> 
> Currently I'm using oversized 240s, and I suspect it won't be too long before I move up to 270s


I know you meant it as a joke, but there's something to say for tying it to physical attributes. I've at least once heard someone to basically take your elbow-to-wrist length. Comes down to 25 cm for me, which is exactly the length of my favorite knife.

I think @Benuser is on to something as well, about total body length having an influence on knife preferences, but I'm leaning towards this having a bigger effect on profile preference, since differences in body length tend to lead to different angles towards the board.


----------



## Barmoley (Nov 21, 2021)

Height of the blade people prefer depends on the vertical distance from your elbow to the board. This is also affected by the angle of the handle to the edge. Length I think is more affected by technique used and board space.


----------

