# 300mm Damascus Suji. U.S. Pass-around



## WillC (Sep 14, 2011)

300mm Damascus Suji Pass-around.

I would like to Offer this Damascus Suji on pass-around. Im a bit excited and nervous as its my first pass around on any forum. So if you think you can suggest something I have missed please let me know. I feel its a good knife for a pass around as it is a good example of my current level of skill. In terms of geometry/steel/HT and fit and finish. 

The Damascus should have been high contrast, but I got my Underholm steels mixed up. So with no Nickel in there, it was a struggle to get anything to show without pitting. This I know about and can get that right next time. As far as HT/grind and performance it is makes no difference, so ideal for passaround..But it should have been prettier.


Specifications
Blade length -310 mm
Handle length  182mm
Depth at heel  42mm
Blade materials  300 layer en42J/Underhom plain carbon. Approx 58-60hrc
Handle Materials  Burl source redwood/ blackwood ferrule, My own Mokume/copper/red spacers, slotted aluminium dowl inside.
Width on spine above heel  2.8mm
Halfway  2mm
1 from tip  1mm
Grind and bevel  Modified flat grind, 7 degree secondary per side with 14 degree micro-bevel.
Weight  288 grams
Balance  Front of handle


Pass around Rules.


I will keep this Pass-around to the U.S. Last on the list posts it back to me in the U.K. I will paypal you the approximate difference in postage if needed. I will ask Mark at Burl source if he would like to try it last, as maybe he can post it back with some nice burls:ninja:

Pm me if you are interested in a UK pass around of this knife.


Maximum of 10 places, 2-3 days each person.

You must provide me with your name, address and contact number via e-mail, ( too easy to loose pms) [email protected]

Contributing members only with 100+ posts, unless you are invited by me.

You must post the knife with insurance to cover a value of $800. Please package so it is suitably resistant to damage during transit.

No destruction testing please. Im only interested in how you find it in normal kitchen use and how it compares to other knives. Treat it with respect but do not be afraid to use it.

Do not alter anything about the knife without my permission, except to touch up the edge.

Natural Patina is to be expected. But no forced patina please.

You must not alter the geometry of the edge unless you have express permission from me. That does not mean that you can not take it to the hones, as long as you are confident to do so.

Only take part in this pass around if you can keep the knife sharp whilst maintaining the geometry as much as possible. Im hoping it will only require a tickle on the micro bevel every so often if stropped regularly, as my other knives do.

I would prefer if you have other knives to compare it to. But if you are in the market for a Suji and like the look of mine, I will make an exception.

Only partake if you have time to evaluate the knife properly and give me feedback.

Any damage to the knife, please let me know straight away.
I hope all that is not off putting.

Here are some pretty Pictures. 

Please if you dont wish to take part in the pass around, dont let it stop you from making comment and offering feedback from the specifications and pictures.


----------



## WillC (Sep 14, 2011)

I'll just get the handle epoxied in and put an edge on it and its ready to go:biggrin:


----------



## JohnnyChance (Sep 14, 2011)

Nice looking knife. I would love to give it a test drive. I have a 300mm Hiromoto AS Suji and a Dave Martell 300mm O1 Suji.

I like the subtle damascus pattern. Should get interesting with patina. Kinda Shigefusa-esque.


----------



## WillC (Sep 14, 2011)

Brilliant Sir, Thats the start of a list. I have been using it before finishing it properly. I never realized a long knife could be so useful. Although I had to get a bigger board.

1. JohnnyChance


----------



## kalaeb (Sep 14, 2011)

I would be interested, I would like to try a longer suji.


----------



## WillC (Sep 14, 2011)

Excellent stuff!

1. JohnnyChance
2. Kalaeb


----------



## sachem allison (Sep 14, 2011)

don't forget me, Will


----------



## WillC (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks Son.... Its sharp...I'm just gona make some dinner with it.
1. JohnnyChance
2. Kalaeb
3. Sachem Allison


----------



## Kyle (Sep 14, 2011)

I don't feel confident enough to provide any real input so I'm going to stay out of the passaround, but that is a beautiful knife!


----------



## WildBoar (Sep 14, 2011)

I'd love to get in on this and compare it to my Pierre R 300mm O1 suji. But as a home cook I don't think I would get enough use out of it in 2-3 days to make a meaningful comparison. :O

Please keep me in mind if you have trouble lining up 10 testers (which I doubt you will!). It is a really nice-looking knife!


----------



## SpikeC (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm interested in this. The closest thing to a suji that I have, though, is a Forschner that is 266mm long and 47mm tall at the heel, and one of those long buffet slicers with a 300mm blade.


----------



## WillC (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks Guys!
Wildboar, i'm a bit hesitant to make it much longer than 3 days, otherwise it could just go on for too long, what with postage and delays and and.:scared4:
But I guess it could be 4 days. That would make it about a week turn around...maybe ...with post time
Would be great to have you on the list if 4 would clinch it.

Spike, Many thanks, I would be very happy to have your feedback, you have been coming up with some lovely knives yourself.

1. JohnnyChance
2. Kalaeb
3. SachemAllison
4. SpikeC


----------



## Lefty (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm in Canada, and I have a crap load of stuff going on between training and being a husband, so I can't participate. It is, however, a beautiful knife. I'm impressed, based on the pictures!


----------



## tk59 (Sep 14, 2011)

I'd be delighted to get in on this, if possible.


----------



## WillC (Sep 14, 2011)

O yes absolutely. Thanks guys for such a great response. Pretty soon the nerves will start to twingle though i'm sure. I need to get a box sorted for it I think, for safe and easy transit.

1. JohnnyChance
2. Kalaeb
3. SachemAllison
4. SpikeC
5. tk59


----------



## WildBoar (Sep 14, 2011)

4 days is helpful. Please add me to the list :cool2:


----------



## WillC (Sep 14, 2011)

Great Stuff! to keep it all simple and fair. Time limit now 4 days. Obviously if you have it when you have time to give it a good run on a weekend or day off, get it off a bit quicker if you can.

1. JohnnyChance
2. Kalaeb
3. SachemAllison
4. SpikeC
5. tk59
6. Wildboar


----------



## El Pescador (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm in. I live by TK59 if you like to group us together...

Pesky


----------



## WillC (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks Pesky, glad to have you on board. I'll pop you in next to tk in sharpsville

1. JohnnyChance
2. Kalaeb
3. SachemAllison
4. SpikeC
5. tk59
6. El Pescador
7. Wildboar


----------



## Andrew H (Sep 14, 2011)

Looks like a great knife, I've got no sujis to compare it to though so I'll let someone else get in on this.


----------



## ecchef (Sep 14, 2011)

Sounds like fun. I could compare it to a Takeda and Kanemasa. I would, by practicality, be the last on the list due to my remote location. I would'nt feel offended if you are uncomfortable about having this knife in transit for weeks. 

Beautiful wok!

D


----------



## wenus2 (Sep 14, 2011)

Well, it's purdy. Looks a lot like my 310 Harner actually (avatar pic). I can't give a knife this big a hard workout at home unfortunately, so I am no help :tongue:
I look forward to seeing some thoughts though. Congrats on your first passaround! It takes thick skin to offer your blood sweat and tears up for criticism.


----------



## Eamon Burke (Sep 14, 2011)

I would love to try this one out!

Your work intrigues me. I hope there's room!


----------



## stevenStefano (Sep 15, 2011)

That is an amazing looking knife. I live in the UK but I don't think I would use such a knife enough to give you any useful feedback. I'm sure the people on the list will give you a lot of interesting ideas though, these passarounds are always interesting to read even if you aren't actually on them


----------



## Lefty (Sep 15, 2011)

You should look into a way to keep your fees low for when the knife comes back from the US to the UK. The dues can be outrageous, for "foreign" product coming into England, etc. See if marking it as "Made in UK", or something along those lines can save you the $20...or £.


----------



## Timthebeaver (Sep 15, 2011)

It's his property = no customs charges.


----------



## Lefty (Sep 15, 2011)

Yeah, I'd just make sure it's obvious that it's his property, or at the least, that it is a domestic product. We all know how customs can be.


----------



## Timthebeaver (Sep 15, 2011)

For sure. I have sent a lot of stuff between the two. The customs charges on a $800 knife would be around 180GBP iirc, so it pays to be cautious!


----------



## HHH Knives (Sep 15, 2011)

Awesome looking cutter! I wouldnt be able to do proper testing or have comparisons. But I look forward to the reviews and think this knife is going to be a big hit.. Keep up the great work.


----------



## Dave Martell (Sep 15, 2011)

If that package (and customs paperwork) is marked "return to original sender" and he retains the original receipt from shipping he'll probably be good to go.

Nice knife!


----------



## tgraypots (Sep 15, 2011)

I'm a home cook, have no experience with suji's, and have actually never held one in my hand other than a small kikuichi years ago. Nevertheless, I'd like to be in on this simply to be able to hold it in my hand, admire the level of craftsmanship, and trace it for future reference  Any comments I'd be able to make would probably be monosyllabic, like, oooooooooooooo, aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh and wwwwhhhhhheeeeeeeeee. Should you consider me seriously, I'm smack dab in the middle of North Carolina.


----------



## WillC (Sep 15, 2011)

Wow thanks for a great response Guys. 
re eschef. I'm really wanting to keep Customs to a minimum on this one, even though I would have loved you to try it. So U.S mainland only. 

tgraypots, If your in the market for a Suji and know how to look after it. I'm happy to put you on the list. But you must appreciate its a fair bit of risk for me sending a knife abroad and as such am keeping it fairly limited and trying to get straight down to the business of working feedback/future customers..

Johndoughy glad to have you on board.

1. JohnnyChance
2. Kalaeb
3. SachemAllison
4. SpikeC
5. tk59
6. El Pescador
7. Wildboar
8. Johndoughy
9.
10.
11. Burlsource

Regards postage. Thanks for the tip Dave, i'll remember that. I have made an extra slot for Mark of burl source and he is going to post it back with a burl order. Thanks for agreeing to this Mark as I know you have the postage thing sorted. I'll send it out as a Sample so there won't be any mix up with taxes.
I think I'll send it in a tube. Not a very pretty presentation case but will keep the weight and costs down. Was toying with the idea of making a box for it...but it could get heavy.....
As I say if you are in the uk and would be interested in a future pass around drop me a line so I remember.


----------



## JohnnyChance (Sep 15, 2011)

After you have your final list, I would also juggle the order to make the most efficient route. If there are any NYC guys on the list, I can hand deliver the knife, much like the TK59/El Pescador socal duo.


----------



## tgraypots (Sep 15, 2011)

All things considered, I'm gonna have to pass. Thanks for the opportunity though.


----------



## sachem allison (Sep 16, 2011)

JohnnyChance said:


> After you have your final list, I would also juggle the order to make the most efficient route. If there are any NYC guys on the list, I can hand deliver the knife, much like the TK59/El Pescador socal duo.



I'm in the city, when your ready pm me and I'll give you my contact info.
and thanks, son


----------



## Vertigo (Sep 16, 2011)

I'd jump in on this if there's still room.


----------



## WillC (Sep 16, 2011)

There is indeed, Thankyou Vertigo. I'm going to reserve number 10 to invite for now. Many thanks Guys.


1. JohnnyChance
2. SachemAllison
3. Kalaeb
4. SpikeC
5. tk59
6. El Pescador
7. Wildboar
8. Johndoughy
9. Vertigo
10. res
11. Burlsource


----------



## WillC (Sep 16, 2011)

Final list, if any one else lives near each other and can hand deliver, just let me know and i'l jiggle it a bit more

1. JohnnyChance
2. SachemAllison
3. Kalaeb
4. SpikeC
5. tk59
6. El Pescador
7. J.Brodia
8. Wildboar
9. Johndoughy
10.Vertigo
11.Burlsource

If those who haven't sent me their details can do that please, i'll pop on who has and hasn't. I'll try and get this off next week. Thanks all for signing up and have a great weekend.


----------



## WillC (Sep 21, 2011)

Ok bear with me here Guys, here is the list rejigged geographically. Would those who have not sent details please send them. Should be able to get this in the post tomorrow. Exciting looking on the map, its going on quite a journey.

Johnny chance details received
Sachem Allison details received 
John doughy details received
Tk59 
El Pescador 
J.Borida details received  
Kalaeb
Vertigo details received
Wildboar details received
SpkeC details received 
Burlsource details received


----------



## WillC (Sep 21, 2011)

I've just given this the chinese 12K and nagura progression. (Playing with my new toys). Followed by chrome ox. I've ditched the micro bevel and just given it a 11/12 degree per side. No box for it I'm afraid. I was hoping to get the leather lady to make a sheath for it. But she is not very clued up about sheaths yet. So will have to work on that one with her for the future. But I will double tape the edge and will be snug and secure inside a cardboard postal tube.


----------



## ecchef (Sep 21, 2011)

raisedbybrocks said:


> W I'm really wanting to keep Customs to a minimum on this one, even though I would have loved you to try it. So U.S mainland only.


 
No worries, perfectly understandable.


----------



## WillC (Sep 22, 2011)

Johnny chance 
Sachem Allison 
John doughy 
Tk59 
El Pescador Please send details
J.Borida 
Kalaeb 
Vertigo 
Wildboar 
SpkeC 
Burlsource


Thats nearly everyone. I'll pop you all an e-mail later so you have my details too. And get this off to Johnny today, before I start fiddling again.


----------



## TB_London (Sep 22, 2011)

Waiting for the feedback from this excitedly, wish I'd been able to try it out before it's journey. Last time I saw it the grind was only half done but even then it just felt like it wanted to cut things.


----------



## WillC (Sep 22, 2011)

Sorry Tom. But there will be more. I really enjoy grinding the longer narrower type knife. I really appreciated your input on this knife. So will be able to hold you partly responsible if everyone hates it
I posted this today folks......:biggrin:


----------



## TB_London (Sep 25, 2011)

Lol, happy to take the blame, if it becomes an embarassment i'm happy to take it off your hands so you don't have to see it again


----------



## JohnnyChance (Sep 30, 2011)

Arrived today, no problems. More to come, have to go to work now.


----------



## WillC (Sep 30, 2011)

Ah excellent news.:biggrin:


----------



## tk59 (Sep 30, 2011)

Wow. I now see that I didn't really comprehend how long that handle is, haha! Still looks very nice, though.


----------



## Eamon Burke (Sep 30, 2011)

yeah, when I saw the pics I thought "oh that's nice looking"...then I saw it was 300mm...I was like "*** that handle has to be HUGE."

Very cool though. Interesting to see how it balances out.


----------



## WillC (Oct 1, 2011)

It a two hander, for mammoth steaks! Probably need a bigger knife for that though. I hovered near the saw for a second, but decided to leave it long, for balance and I liked the look. I'll be interested to hear if it gets in the way at all or causes any problems.


----------



## JohnnyChance (Oct 3, 2011)

Went to Sachem Allison's restaurant last night to hand over the suji in person.


----------



## JohnnyChance (Oct 3, 2011)




----------



## WillC (Oct 3, 2011)

Thanks very much Johnny, great comparison shots.
Just to update the list Vertigo has had to pull out due to time and timing issues so this is the updated list

Johnny chance 
Sachem Allison 
John doughy 
Tk59 
El Pescador Please send details
J.Borida 
Kalaeb 
Wildboar 
SpkeC 
Burlsource


----------



## JohnnyChance (Oct 3, 2011)

raisedbybrocks said:


> Thanks very much Johnny, great comparison shots.
> Just to update the list Vertigo has had to pull out due to time and timing issues so this is the updated list
> 
> Johnny chance
> ...



Pesky lives near TK, I would imagine they would hand this off in person rather than ship it.


----------



## WillC (Oct 6, 2011)

Cheers Johnny, So where is the knife? Mr doughy could have it by now. 

Johnny chance 
Sachem Allison 
John doughy 
Tk59 
El Pescador 
J.Borida 
Kalaeb 
Wildboar 
SpkeC 
Burlsource


----------



## sachem allison (Oct 6, 2011)

sent it out on tuesday he should either have it or will in a day or so.


----------



## WillC (Oct 6, 2011)

Groovy man, do let me know your thoughts when you have time.


----------



## sachem allison (Oct 6, 2011)

swamped this week, cooks on vacation , i might not get you until sunday or tuesday, sorry.


----------



## kalaeb (Oct 7, 2011)

Reviews are coming, yes?


----------



## WillC (Oct 7, 2011)

Hope so
Son, no worries, I know how it is to be doing everything on your own, hot food/metal. Not that different, apart from the taste.:Ooooh:


----------



## sachem allison (Oct 12, 2011)

well, I guess I'll be the first one to review as Will is buggin me about it.lol

I hope I can give you a good one as I only had an opportunity to use it for a day. Since I had such a limited time I tried to use it as an all arounder. It got a sixteen hour workout.
My initial impression upon unwrapping it was, Oh My God he sent me a katana! This thing is huge. When Will said it was a two hander he really meant it. The blade was quite impressive, it had a unique profile that I haven't seen in a suji before. I think that if the tip angle was a little more extreme it would be a lot more useful for fine work. The blade came polished and the Damascus pattern was almost invisible, which sorely disappointed me as i am a huge fan of Will's damascus and my petty is gorgeous. Will did however address this earlier when he mentioned that he accidentally mixed up his steel before he forged it yielding a very low contrast pattern. Now with that said, I feel that the polished blade may have caused some sticking issues especially with potatoes and some wedging issues with onions. This may not be too noticeable at home, but in a professional kitchen it can be annoying. I think once it develops a patina or Will gets the proper blend of steel those issues should go away. I used it to slice steaks and filets and it worked great. 
Now, I have a relatively small line and this knife was a little on the large size, as a matter of fact I'm a little on the large size and the main issue I had was with the handle. It is massive, not heavy or fat, but long over half again as long as any of my knives. This is a problem as when I use it it keeps hitting me in the belly and knocking my cuts out of alignment. When I correct for this it changes my normal cutting stance and causes wrist fatigue. The emoto is really long and makes for a very strained pinch grip thus adding to the fatigue. I know Will feels that this length of handle adds to the over all asthetic of the knife and it does, it however is not very practiclal in a everyday professional kitchen setting. I think this knife has a very niche market in the sushi type restuarants were many chefs use oversized knifes.
Overall, this knife is very well made and very handsome. Fit and finish are really good. The handmade mokume gane is pretty damn cool. That redwood handle is gorgeous for a guy who hasn't made very many wa handles. With a few minor tweaks, modifications and a shorter handle I think Will would have a good suji. It's not bad for a first effort and I don't think I could do better considering Will never held a japanese Suji until he started this project. I know that he has already moved beyond this suji as I saw the 240 petty suji he made and it looks like it he has already made alot of improvements that this knife needs on his own.. He is learning and each knife he makes will get better and in a rather short time he will nail it. He has good potential. This knife may not be for me in my kitchen, but somebody will love it and that's all that matters. 

P.s. I did defeat seven samurai on the way home with it though!:knife::surrendar:


----------



## WillC (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks Son, thats absolutely invaluable feedback. I had not realized the handle would get in the way from my own testing. Now I understand why it should be shorter and with a shorter emoto to ease the pinch grip. I can address this properly. I really appreciate you putting some time in with the knife and the honest review.:biggrin:


----------



## sachem allison (Oct 12, 2011)

I appreciate the opportunity. I am in love with the petty by the way. I have never seen a patina stay so rainbowy blue for so long.


----------



## Burl Source (Oct 16, 2011)

I am a little nervous about when this knife makes it's way to me.
What is a knife this size normally used to cut?

Sachem's comments helped me a bit so I can be prepared for when it arrives.
I have been watching old video clips of John Belushi in "Samari Delicatessan".

PS: I hope you don't mind me joking around. It has been a long day and I get a bit goofy when I am tired.


----------



## WillC (Oct 17, 2011)

I'll have to google that. sounds like fun
Don't worry though once you start using it you'll see they are very versatile. A longer knife makes pull cutting thin slices of vegetables or meat a fun task, rock chopping bunches of stuff or use the tip for onion etc.
The last I heard of the knife Eamon was about to have a play with the finnish with his fingerstones.


----------



## TB_London (Oct 17, 2011)

Oooo hope there are some pics of the finger stone finish, would be interesting to see


----------



## WillC (Oct 17, 2011)

I've got a few pieces, from maxim, I'll send you a little chunk with the book and stone you lent me.:biggrin:


----------



## Burl Source (Oct 17, 2011)

raisedbybrocks said:


> I'll have to google that. sounds like fun
> Don't worry though once you start using it you'll see they are very versatile. A longer knife makes pull cutting thin slices of vegetables or meat a fun task, rock chopping bunches of stuff or use the tip for onion etc.
> The last I heard of the knife Eamon was about to have a play with the finnish with his fingerstones.


 
[video]http://youtu.be/OxZt4Kxj2cE[/video]


----------



## Eamon Burke (Oct 24, 2011)

Ok this one is moving on out of my care. I had to hold on to it so that a visiting forumite could see it too! I am too stoked about the patina to not post this:







I was told I could leave a patina on it, and he would like if it was "a pretty blue patina". Ask and ye shall recieve! This thing takes a SA-WWEEEEET blue patina. That is from cutting up 2 roasted chickens.


----------



## sachem allison (Oct 25, 2011)

johndoughy said:


> Ok this one is moving on out of my care. I had to hold on to it so that a visiting forumite could see it too! I am too stoked about the patina to not post this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I have noticed that about Will's blades, they have the most beautiful electric rainbow blue patinas and they last.


----------



## WillC (Oct 25, 2011)

Nice Eamon. This steel is quite hungry for patina, then it is quite stable, a nudge in the "blue" direction helps allot though.
TK is up next.:knife:


----------



## sachem allison (Oct 29, 2011)

anybody else going to post a review or am I the lone wolf here?


----------



## Eamon Burke (Oct 29, 2011)

I will! Soon enough. Been busy.


----------



## sachem allison (Oct 29, 2011)

johndoughy said:


> I will! Soon enough. Been busy.


 
just checking.


----------



## sally benes (Oct 29, 2011)

sachem allison said:


> anybody else going to post a review or am I the lone wolf here?


Yes. The two people that post all the time can't put up a review? I've been checking this thread every day for a while hoping to learn a little something.


----------



## Eamon Burke (Oct 29, 2011)

Lol I post on my phone. A proper review via swype would be tedious.


----------



## sally benes (Oct 29, 2011)

You youngsters can do anything you want on a phone these days. Don't think that excuse is gonna fly young man.


----------



## PierreRodrigue (Oct 30, 2011)

sally benes said:


> You youngsters can do anything you want on a phone these days. Don't think that excuse is gonna fly young man.



Haha! You guys been told!


----------



## HHH Knives (Oct 30, 2011)

PierreRodrigue said:


> Haha! You guys been told!



:rasberry: :surrendar:


----------



## WillC (Oct 30, 2011)

Yeah, cumon Guys, reviews, don't be shy, a vid would be good. Or i'll set Sally on you


----------



## tk59 (Oct 30, 2011)

sally benes said:


> Yes. The two people that post all the time can't put up a review? ...


 You're not calling me out, are you? I just got this thing on Friday! We're supposed to get three days with it. Eamon (johndoughy) is the one you're after. He had it for like three weeks, lol!


----------



## WillC (Oct 30, 2011)

Naughty naughty Eamonirate1:
I'm not sure why I was so mean with time on this now. I think it being my first pass-around I thought it would keep it short and to the point. I'm not so concerned with time now, and realize I should have allowed a bit more to start with, as long as no-one feels hard done by. Eamon, your obviously not allowed to feel hard done by on time Basically if your busy and need to keep it for a week to give it a fair test, thats fine by me.


----------



## TB_London (Oct 30, 2011)

lol, hope it doesn't take too long though, i'm still waiting to give it a go when it gets back to the UK


----------



## Eamon Burke (Oct 30, 2011)

raisedbybrocks said:


> Naughty naughty Eamonirate1:
> I'm not sure why I was so mean with time on this now. I think it being my first pass-around I thought it would keep it short and to the point. I'm not so concerned with time now, and realize I should have allowed a bit more to start with, as long as no-one feels hard done by. Eamon, your obviously not allowed to feel hard done by on time Basically if your busy and need to keep it for a week to give it a fair test, thats fine by me.


 
LOL! Not 3 weeks! But it was away from other people for like 2 weeks. It was because my stupid post office likes to invent holidays and close all the bloody time, lose things, and generally not work. If you wonder why the Postal Service is going under, come check out USPS North Richland Hills.

Plus I had to let Karring see it. He stopped by, I had to!


----------



## WillC (Oct 30, 2011)

Lol, its cool dude, just yankin yer chain:tongue:


----------



## Eamon Burke (Oct 30, 2011)

Catcheside 300mm Sujihiki Review

First off, I'd like to say that we can probably hit up my post office and get their thoughts on this knife, they had the thing long enough. Columbus does not deserve a holiday.

As always, I will be stating my opinion as fact.

-------------Aesthetics------------
This thing is big, yes. But it really isn't that big. I was not shocked when I got it, but then again, 300mm is not THAT big of a knife, especially a slicer. A lot of the magnitude of this thing comes from the fact that the handle is proportional to the blade as though it were about 210-225mm. Certainly looks nice on the wall.

The butt-cap and bolster are both REALLY nice touches. Very nice contrast in person. I mean, the handle was sticking out of my bag on the way to and from work, and I felt like I should be wearing a sport coat and drinking some scotchI just felt like someone should notice what a badass I looked like. Karring saw the handle sticking out of my bag when I put my kid in my car, and noticed it for what it was from about 20 feet away.

The pattern in the steel was very very fine, and the blade had been polished up, I noticed it matched 2000grit wet/dry. I thought, Oh boy, this is gonna look even better if I change the finish on it, bring out the contrast some. So I messaged Mr. Catcheside, and he thought I would be bothered by spending my time playing with a knife. Not so! So I started to rub it with some fingerstones and guess what? It looked like CRAP. Just blurry haze. None of my stones, papers, compounds or polishes could bring out more contrast than just a shiny finish like it had. I have no idea what the deal is with the steel used, but the best finish was the one he put on there. Surprising, and strange. I tried to take pics, but none of them came out, and there was nothing to see anyways.

After working with some roasted chicken, it VERY quickly developed the previously posted bad-arse blue patina. It is one of the most obvious blue patinas I've seen, you don't need to angle it in person, it looks blue from every angle. The way the patina contrasts with the handle, this is one of the most attractive knives I've had in my kitchen.

The kiritsuke-esque tip, always a cool plus. I think between that and the large handle, everyone I showed it to declared it a small sword. At work, I am often referred to as the fruit ninja, and they made jokes for a few days about this one. It would visually benefit from being less rounded, both on the shoulder of the tip and pointier at the tip. It looks a little unintentional.

IT NEEDS A MAKER'S MARK.

----------The Edge--------------
I didn't sharpen this one. Couple reasons.
One, I didn't get to use it enough to burn through the edge. I am not a butcher, and didn't get any shifts at the sushi bar(it is slow time after all).
Two, I didn't want to hold it any longer.
Three(the main reason), I couldn't risk ruining the awesome patina before someone else saw it.

-----------Design---------------
This is where the issues arise. Clearly, the skill is all therethis is a beautiful knife, and expertly constructed. But the hugest problem is the length and size of the handle. Karring said that it felt strangely light in his hand, which it does...but I think that is mostly because the balance point it RIGHT in front of the bolster, even behind the heel. This gets to be a huge problem about halfway through a large piece of meatif the momentum of the cut stops, you are twisting your wrist and fighting to get the tip down, since the weight is centered in a spot that is always outside the food you are cutting, and the tip just wants to give up.

The blade is thin, though it could use to be thinner behind the edge. It's thin enough that I used it to cut large blocks of cheese, from softer jack cheese to a 2 year cheddar, and it actually did great. So great at that and big melons, in fact, that it made me realize how much I could use a big, thin suji on a daily basis. Great. Another purchase itch I don't need!

The faces need to be convexed more unless the spine is going to be thickerit really sticks. Though on a knife as narrow as a suji sticking rarely equates to food staying on the blade, it makes it cut like it's a lot duller than it is. I split a deli-style turkey breast with it, and it wasn't awesome.

The knife, for whatever reason, gives good feedback. I like this in a slicer(says the guy who cuts beef strips with a yanagiba), because often you can hit bones or the knife gets stuck and you don't feel it, so you push a bit harder and you'll either slip on the knife or (worse yet) potentially damage the edge.

The profile was goodit's gotta stay as flat as it is for a knife this long, unless it's being used by an 8 foot man. The angled handle did well enough that clearance was not an issueI even cut up rows of bell peppers with it for fun, and it actually did REALLY well...well enough that it quickly went from a funny joke to saving me some prep time.

---------Overall-----------

Beautiful knife, well executed, but lacking the practicality department. I would classify this one as a looker, but with a few tweaks to future versions, these would be worth pulling a hefty price tag. I can't stress enough how many compliments I got on the looks of this knifefrom my wife(who likes Rader), to my coworkers(who like Rodrigue) to my boss(who likes Glestain).

I really appreciate the chance to use this thing, and I'm glad Mr. Catcheside is around. This is the right place for a guy like him, and it's nice to see that the UK has some skin in the kitchen knife game.


----------



## WillC (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks Eamon, that was a great read and lots for me to think about. I'm beginning to feel for myself in food that more convexity gives better cutting performance. But the balance/tip weight thing I would never have got. I just make them so they feel great in the hand balance wise, the tip lacking weight at the end of the cut is something i'll take on board on a Suji. I'll have to try some long cuts now to see what you mean.


----------



## JohnnyChance (Oct 30, 2011)

tk59 said:


> You're not calling me out, are you? I just got this thing on Friday! We're supposed to get three days with it. Eamon (johndoughy) is the one you're after. He had it for like three weeks, lol!


 
She might have been referring to me. I posted pictures previously and emailed William but never posted my thoughts here. So here it goes.

As we all know, it's a big knife. The edge length isn't the problem, and the handle doesn't really get in your way or anything, but it doesn't HAVE to be that big, so making it smaller would help. It might get a bit more maneuverable, fit in more bags, and move the balance point a little. The balance isn't bad, but I like my long slicers blade heavy, let them do some of the work for you. The only part that really needs to get shorter is the gap between the handle and heel. It's too big, makes pinch gripping uncomfortable, and making the blade feel longer and more cumbersome than it actually is. 

I agree with Eamon, some more convexity would improve performance. I cut some sweet potato and butternut squash with it, it did pretty well. A large onion was okay, it did get sluggish part way through the cuts. But I disagree with him about the profile. I think it is way way too flat. You can see how flat it is compared to the Hiromoto and the Martell. I like curve in the profile of long slicers, makes them more useful for a wider variety of tasks. If you need to use it as a gyuto, you can put the tip on the board and rock with it. It is cumbersome to push cut with because of the large gap between the handle and heel, and the long very flat blade, it just puts a lot of blade out in front of you to control. If you are using it just as a protein slicer, I guess the flat doesn't really hurt you there, but the curve doesnt either, so you might as well have one to make it more useful overall.


----------



## Eamon Burke (Oct 30, 2011)

The reason I don't like any more belly on a knife this long is that I have trouble reaching the tip with it, unless the counter is really low. I probably should have specified that! On slicers shorter than 300, I like the tip to have belly leading up to it, it really helps to make that last little nudge when needed and lets you get more cutting done on the push stroke for big pieces of beef and fish.

Also, as far as my vote for where the balance should be, just shorten the space between the bolster and heel, and cut the handle by like 20-25%, and it'll probably be just where I like it--but on a slicer, it's gotta be at least past the heel.


----------



## tk59 (Nov 1, 2011)

Johnny and Eamon covered just about everything I wanted to say so I'll just emphasize a few points.

I liked the fit and finish, the nice, even grind and the excellent thinness near the edge. I also appreciated the extra length (310 mm on the edge). It is a very nice slicer and the patina is a beautiful blue. I cut quite a bit of London broil this weekend and the blue that Eamon started is deepening and spreading further up the blade. I'll have to post a pic, later. I also thought I should note that I think damascus, in general looks over-the-top fancy. I'd feel like I'm walking around my kitchen with a big hat sporting fancy plumage or something. I very much prefer this less, conspicuous type of combination. I also like the dimensions and taper on the handle. I thought it was particularly well done.

I didn't like the length of the machi (cut 10 mm or so) or the handle (cut about 25 mm). My block will easily accomodate any other 310 suji. This one is almost 10 mm too long. I would also imagine that it is partly responsible for the clumsier feel of the knife when doing anything other than slicing. The tip just feels difficult to control, maybe more than necessary. It is handle heavy so all the force for slicing is applied from that front part of your hand which might not be nice after a few hundred slices. Luckily, the blade was long enough and the slices small enough where that force was minimal, in my case. There is also a dead flat portion to the middle of the blade and causes it to uh... thu-thunk on the board when doing all-around work but that's not really important for this particular knife since I wouldn't normally use it that way. It does need more curve to maximize cutting edge length and to help reach the tip, the handle needs to not be tilted up. That exacerbates the issue. The geometry really needs to be more convex, esp. toward the tip. Slices just don't fall away as nicely as they could and tend to get deformed more than necessary trying to "follow" the blade. The extra metal would help with the balance, too. 

Another thing I noticed but I'm not sure is anything, really, is one of the welds seems particularly "textured." I wonder if it is a defect.


----------



## WillC (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks Johnny and thanks Tk for the feedback, its much appreciated, especially as i'm sure you have a ton of knives to get through
Did you take it to the hones Tk?, i'd be very interested in your views of the steel in terms of the edge you could get off it.
The texture in the steel is pitting from over etching, trying to get the non-contrasty steels to show a bit more contrast.:O
I ht then grind my blades, any flaws show up during the grind and certainly on polishing. The blank was clean as a whistle. Interesting things though flaws if you think about it wrought iron has very beautiful flaws in the form of slag inclusions in hazy lines from rolling. But then bad wrought, does have a tendency to come apart on you.


----------



## tk59 (Nov 1, 2011)

I saw the other thread you started with the new suji. Looks like you've already responded to a lot of the criticism. I did not take it to the stone per your request but I'd be more than happy to do so. I was impressed with the toughness of the edge. I have observed very little damage under magnification although it isn't cutting tomatoes particularly well even after stropping on 1 micron diamond. As for the flaws, I agree, they could add an interesting touch, as long as rust doesn't set in the fissures or weaken the blade in some way. I couldn't detect either on this blade. It looks like Pesky won't be by to check it out for a couple of days. It will go off to Jon on Friday or Saturday.


----------



## tk59 (Nov 7, 2011)

I sent the knife off to Jon today, now that Pesky's had a turn with it. I've attached a picture of the patina in it's current state. It's gorgeous, if I do say so myself. I also sharpened the knife gently on Gesshin 1k-5k-Awasedo-Dave new strop loaded w/ 1 micron diamond. I'll say it wasn't the easiest thing to sharpen for a number of reasons (some flexibility, the length, the small bevel and the weight distribution) but it did sharpen up just like a lot of simple carbon steel knives. It get blazingly sharp pretty easily. The burr was pretty easy to remove (gone by the time I finished with the 5k, which was not very long). It did improve the cutting but not as much as I thought it would. To me, that reinforces the idea that the grind would be the main way this knife could be improved...like it needs a little yanagiba mixed into it. =D
View attachment 2303


----------



## WillC (Nov 7, 2011)

Woo, that looks great, thanks Tk, i'd nearly forgotten how long I made the handle:eek2:. So a little check list, so far.
A good deal more convexity on the faces will help part food, without sticking on the slice. 
More weight to the tip by shifting the balance,
Shorter handle, 
More up-sweep to the tip, maybe over the last third of the blade? This accentuates cutting area.
Shorter emoto so as not to have to over stretch pinch grip.
No upsweep to the handle to ease the wrist position doing long slices.
Thanks all for the feedback,:biggrin:


----------



## El Pescador (Nov 7, 2011)

I am good with all the previous reviews...and would like add this knife+drinking= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqVQT9Det6Q


----------



## tk59 (Nov 7, 2011)

El Pescador said:


> I am good with all the previous reviews...and would like add this knife+drinking= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqVQT9Det6Q


Uh... W. T. F. ?


----------



## El Pescador (Nov 7, 2011)

tk59 said:


> Uh... W. T. F. ?



Sorry, I was looking for an excuse to post the video.


----------



## tk59 (Nov 7, 2011)

I hear ya. I just thought it was sad...


----------



## El Pescador (Nov 7, 2011)

Whats sad is me having to change my pants from laughing so hard.


----------



## tk59 (Nov 7, 2011)

El Pescador said:


> Whats sad is me having to change my pants from laughing so hard.


I think he might have some sort of disability.


----------



## JohnnyChance (Nov 7, 2011)

tk59 said:


> I think he might have some sort of disability.


 
Pesky or the kid in the video?


----------



## tk59 (Nov 7, 2011)

No comment.


----------



## JBroida (Nov 9, 2011)

got the knife yesterday... took some pics this morning.


----------



## JBroida (Nov 9, 2011)




----------



## WillC (Nov 9, 2011)

Very cool detail shots there Jon, many thanks:biggrin:


----------



## JBroida (Nov 9, 2011)

my pleasure... looking forward to playing around with it a bit... so far, i think my comments will mirror what others have said... long neck, weird edge profile (esp. near the back 1/3 of the blade... you get a wierd clunk clunk when cutting with the profile that flat), handle super long (but nicely done), etc. I'll say more when i've had some time to use it a bit.


----------



## tk59 (Nov 9, 2011)

Looking at these pics reminded me of something I meant to say earlier. The skill level on these knives is very high. This knife reminded me a lot of my experience with the Rader passaround. Plenty of skill but the design needed some work. I'm putting Catcheside on my short list of wants along with another Devin, a Burke, a Rader and a Tsourkan...


----------



## JohnnyChance (Nov 9, 2011)

tk59 said:


> Looking at these pics reminded me of something I meant to say earlier. The skill level on these knives is very high. This knife reminded me a lot of my experience with the Rader passaround. Plenty of skill but the design needed some work. I'm putting Catcheside on my short list of wants along with another Devin, a Burke, a Rader and a Tsourkan...


 
Your short list isn't so short anymore. All set on Carters for now?


----------



## tk59 (Nov 10, 2011)

JohnnyChance said:


> Your short list isn't so short anymore. All set on Carters for now?


What are you talkin' about? That's really short! As for Carters, yes. I can't justify getting a fourth any time soon. I hope Bill doesn't call me too soon, either...


----------



## WillC (Nov 27, 2011)

Back on line folks. Kalaeb is up next. Thanks all for your input so far, its been a real learning experience.


----------



## WildBoar (Dec 13, 2011)

I took delivery yesterday. What a beauty! And it makes the 300 mm suji from Pierre look short!


----------



## WillC (Dec 14, 2011)

Thanks Dude, Enjoy. By the way if anyone can find a use for this knife, do drop me a pm. Obviously its far from perfect, so I would certainly let it go at used/ practice knife prices. Would save Mark posting it back to the uk too.


----------



## WildBoar (Jan 3, 2012)

Some comparison shots w/ my Pierre Rodrigue 300mm suji. Assist by BoardSMITH. Sorry about the poor spine shots.














and just for fun...


----------



## WillC (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks for the pictures, they are great. Hope you enjoyed using it.
Will


----------



## WildBoar (Jan 5, 2012)

I really enjoyed my time with it. It was by far the most popular knife at our Christmas party -- I was using it to slice the hams and people kept picking it up to admire it.

The longish handle was really my only issue with it. It wasn't quite as comfortable as the one my other suji, and it shifted the weight balance a little more towards the handle, leaving the front half of the blade feeling a little light (in car terms, it understeered a tad )

The spine was wider then on my suji, and it had less taper at the tip. Before I used the knife, I thought that would hurt the overall performance, but it was thin enough behind the edge and was quite a capable slicer.

I did not cut up much in the way of vegetables with it, just a couple onions and potatoes. The lightness near the tip made it a little less then ideal for those tasks, but then again a 300mm blade isn't exactly a go-to length for me when it comes to gyutos, so I'm not used to doing much with knives this length other then carving roasts, etc.

Overall, I was quite impressed with the level of workmanship. The metal and woodwork were top notch! And you gained a dozen or so new admirers that evening -- many of whom collect pocket knives and could not understand up until that point why I would spend more the $50 on a kitchen knife.

Thanks for letting me try it out! :cool2:


----------



## WillC (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks David, it was a crazy length to do the handle I guess I was thinking artistically rather than practicality. The addition of a brass dowel to handles on longer knives has addressed that issue meaning a handle can be made to fit a hand measurement, (Mine is 130mm) and not be overly blade heavy.
My grinds have got more and more extreme as I have gone along from the Pass around. Something like 2.8, 1.8. 0.8 an inch behind the tip is presently what i'm doing on a 300mm Suji. With a tad more convexity. 
The edge profile seems to be an area of personal taste. Between this one, which is quite a flat profile, notably too flat for many, My latest Suji near matches a Masamoto ks 270 gyuto from the tip back. So a slight curve to the heel but pretty flat then a sweep up to the tip. How do you prefer your profile on a Suji?


----------



## WildBoar (Jan 5, 2012)

Will, the edge profile of your suji matches the profile of Pierre's pretty closely (I should have taken a pic of them overlaid). I like this flattish profile. But then again I do not use my suji for 'board work' -- I have a few gyutos for that.

So I would say if you want to use the suji as an all-around knife then a little more curve might be good, but if mainly for slicing it's good as-is. Obviously this is personal, and I tend to prefer gyutos that are a little flatter then the norm.


----------



## WillC (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks David, yep I think I'll leave the exact edge profile to personal choice on orders. Thats the beauty of custom knives after all.:biggrin:


----------



## WillC (Jan 17, 2012)

Where has this got to then? Spike had it last I heard.


----------



## SpikeC (Jan 17, 2012)

Mark should have it now, it was scheduled to be at his place Saturday.


----------



## WillC (Jan 17, 2012)

Cool, thanks Spike.


----------



## SpikeC (Jan 17, 2012)

Being so far down the line on this passaround there isn't a whole lot that I can add to what has been said. I found that cutting onions caused discoloration, but it is not really an onion chopper, now is it? The length reinforced my feelings that 300 mm is too long for my home kitchen! It was nice for slicing ham, though. 
Most seemed to not like the size of the handle, but I liked the way that it counterbalanced the blade. For me the balance made it easier to maneuver the big blade around. I really loved the execution of the handle, it is really pretty! The mokume was a nice touch and complimented the wood of the handle nicely. If this knife was customized for my working space it would be an excellent choice. The custom factor really is a plus here. 
I liked the way the blade felt on the stones, when I received it there was some roughness in the edge near the tip, and it smoothed out nicely and took a satisfying edge.
Now, did Mark pick it up at his PO yet?


----------



## zitangy (Jan 18, 2012)

WillC said:


> By the way if anyone can find a use for this knife, do drop me a pm. Obviously its far from perfect, so I would certainly let it go at used/ practice knife prices..



PM of interest sent:

rgds
D


----------



## WillC (Jan 18, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback Spike, glad you liked it. David is going to take this one off my hands. I best pm Mark and make sure he has it.


----------



## Burl Source (Jan 18, 2012)

I just returned from the Post Office where I picked up the package with Will's knife.

My first thought "It's a Monster"
It will be the longest kitchen knife I have ever used by a long shot.
My first impression of how it looked, "Beautiful Knife".
Holding it in hand I was surprised how light weight and well balanced it felt.

Now I have to head to the store to get something to cut with this beauty.


----------



## WillC (Jan 18, 2012)

Cool thanks Mark, looks like you'll be doing dinner.


----------



## Burl Source (Jan 19, 2012)

I used the knife last night to prepare dinner.
Bear in mind I am ignorant with proper cutting and such.

At first the size seemed a bit intimidating until I started cutting with it.
WOW! It is a lot of fun cutting with a good knife like this.

I started with a Tri tip cutting it into thin strips for stir fry. It would cut nice thin, even strips without compressing the meat. It was kind of like, "aim the knife and let it make the slice". Not only was it easy to make dozens of nice even slices, but the meat looked real pretty too.

Next I sliced up a bunch of mushrooms using the tip of the knife. Once again beautiful, thin and even slices.

Last I cut a Walla Walla Sweet onion.
Using the center portion of the blade I cut off both ends then cut in half.
Then I got a bit carried away cutting the 2 halves into thin slices.
I cut them thinner than I should have but I was having fun and they looked pretty.

So far I have no complaints. The knife has been fun to use and cuts great.


----------



## WillC (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks Mark, sounds like fun Its surprising how useful the longer knives are isn't it.


----------



## Burl Source (Jan 24, 2012)

I have been using this knife every evening now since it arrived.
Many of the tasks were ones where I normally would have used a different knife but I wanted to see how things worked out with this knife.
It has changed my perspective a lot about a long slicing knife like this.

The family has enjoyed this knife being here because of all the different meals I have used it to prepare.

As much as I hate to do this, it is probably time to pass it on.
Will, please let me know where to send it.


----------



## WillC (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks you sir, your a gent. I'm really glad you've enjoyed it. Its coming back to me now for a quick clean up and a honing session before it goes to David in Singapore.:biggrin:


----------

