# Pots and pans UK edition



## Migraine (Jul 21, 2019)

The fiance and I moved in together about 6 months ago so for the first time have needed our own cookware. Had been using a set my mum got me, but it's all got some non-stick coating which is now coming off so needs replacing.

I've done a good bit of scouting around on here and come up with a list and some options of what to get as a starter set to be going on with, which I'm sure we will add to as time goes by:

1 + 2) 2 x stainless steel saucepans:

Option 1: Duxtop Whole-Clad Tri-Ply 1.6 + 3qt
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whole-Clad...op+Whole-Clad&qid=1563724822&s=gateway&sr=8-3
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whole-Clad...op+Whole-Clad&qid=1563724822&s=gateway&sr=8-4

Option 2: Paderna Grand Gourmet 2-1/4 + 4-1/4 quart
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Paderno-Wo...saucepan&qid=1563724696&s=gateway&sr=8-3&th=1

Option 3: Vogue tri-wall 1.5 + 3l
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vogue-Tri-...Wall+Saucepan&qid=1563727286&s=gateway&sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vogue-Tri-...Wall+Saucepan&qid=1563727286&s=gateway&sr=8-1

3) Carbon steel frying pan:
De Buyer 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buyer-5130...ing+pan&qid=1563725485&s=gateway&sr=8-10&th=1

Something like this be ok?

4) Stainless steel saute pan (have the ones from the same series' as the saucepans listed here):

Paderno:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Paderno-11...met+saute+pan&qid=1563727416&s=gateway&sr=8-6

Duxtop:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Duxtop-Who...top+saute+pan&qid=1563727519&s=gateway&sr=8-5

Vogue:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vogue-GG03...all+saute+pan&qid=1563727557&s=gateway&sr=8-4

5) Non-stick frying pan

Sounds like just get something cheap and treat it as something you'll have to replace is the right way to go here.

Would those 5 be a sensible start? Any advice on what to go for, either from what I've listed already or other suggestions?

This is my first time buying any pans so really have no clue. We are in a rented place for now so stuck with a glass ceramic hob. Remember we're in the UK so that affects what brands are readily available and prices! In terms of budget, those Paderno ones are probably the top end.

Thanks all.


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## rickbern (Jul 21, 2019)

Don’t know the other brands but those paderno "grand gourmet's" are top notch pans. You’ll have them your whole life. Stainless pans are the backbone of most peoples kitchens, buy quality. And paderno makes a lot of lines, stick to Grand Gourmet.

That paderno sautier pan you linked to would not be my choice I’d choose a classic French sauté shape, I’m big on max floor space.

This link is from the us site. Figure about 4.5 qt for 4-6, 7qt for 8-10 people. I’d get this 4.5 sauté pan before the saucepan you have shown. Saucepans, or anything you boil water in, can be cheap as chips but spend up for sauté pans and skillets.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NIQHME/ref=twister_B07K44FKQG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

DeBuyer is a good choice.

Good luck, don’t sweat it, you learn your own tools.


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## Migraine (Jul 21, 2019)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Paderno-11...gourmet+saute&qid=1563747223&s=gateway&sr=8-7

This one right?

So should I consider getting cheaper saucepans than the Paderno ones? Any recommendations?


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## rickbern (Jul 21, 2019)

Migraine said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Paderno-11...gourmet+saute&qid=1563747223&s=gateway&sr=8-7
> 
> This one right?
> 
> So should I consider getting cheaper saucepans than the Paderno ones? Any recommendations?


Yeah. Or this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Paderno-Wo...and+gourmet+7&qid=1563750313&s=gateway&sr=8-1

I’ve been making pasta for 20 years in a lightweight pot that cost me fifteen bucks. I usually braise in the sauté pan, I use it like a Dutch oven.

If I were watching my budget, those little pots stockpots and roasting pans are where I’d save money. Just like knives, put all your gold into your one main knife and buy a six buck victronix paring knife for when you need something smaller.


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## McMan (Jul 21, 2019)

A big "yes" to the deBuyer. I use the standard version without the stainless handle. I'd suggest a smaller size as well (26cm), very handy when cooking for two.
The big consideration is whether you prefer clad pans or disk-bottom pans. I prefer clad. I think disk bottoms work well with a constant volume of liquid. They're not ideal for reductions since the sides are so thin. Clad pans are great to throw in the oven for braising as well. YMMV. (I also wonder this might be somewhat of a regional thing, with disk-bottoms more popular in Europe?) 

Another brand to consider is Sitram; a French brand, good disk bottom pans just like Paderno.

Also, where's the enameled cast iron on the list?


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## DamageInc (Jul 22, 2019)

De Buyer pans are great.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 22, 2019)

What about de buyer pans is it that you like so much? I have one, which I use a lot, and it is good, but I fail to see what the high praise is all about. I’ve got to be missing something, but what am I missing?


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

If you’re interested in a clad alternative I usually like cuisinart. Either the French sauté or the multiclad pro. I have the French sauté pan, it’s one of my favorites. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=cuisinart+french+saute&ref=nb_sb_noss

If you have gas stove either is okay. If electric stick with the disk bottoms.


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## DamageInc (Jul 22, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> What about de buyer pans is it that you like so much? I have one, which I use a lot, and it is good, but I fail to see what the high praise is all about. I’ve got to be missing something, but what am I missing?


They easily take seasoning and get very slick. Heat retention is good, and the pans themselves are very sturdy. Also, they are at a good price point. What's not to love?


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 22, 2019)

DamageInc said:


> They easily take seasoning and get very slick. Heat retention is good, and the pans themselves are very sturdy. Also, they are at a good price point. What's not to love?



Price is good, I give you that!


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## DamageInc (Jul 22, 2019)

What do you not like about De Buyer's carbon steel pans?


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

https://therationalkitchen.com/cookware/

Migraine, if you really want to overthink this decision, this is a good site


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 22, 2019)

DamageInc said:


> What do you not like about De Buyer's carbon steel pans?



I do like them!


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

Out of the stainless pans, are there some that are more important to be clad as opposed to disc bottom than others? The paderno ones are all disc bottom. I just handled the vogue ones which are fully clad as they have them at nisbets in the city and they seem like quality things, but I'm a total pleb at pans so what do I know.

We're on electric hob ATM but may well be on gas in future.


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

rickbern said:


> https://therationalkitchen.com/cookware/
> 
> Migraine, if you really want to overthink this decision, this is a good site


No don't do this; if I open this link I'll still be deliberating in a year.


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## HRC_64 (Jul 22, 2019)

Migraine said:


> Out of the stainless pans, are there some that are more important to be clad as opposed to disc bottom than others?



IMHO...basically there is no singular answer...mix and match is OK

- True saucework and braising (brasiere/dutch oven) cooking are best with thick pans (clad construction)
Look for good+cheap import brands if all-clad is cost prohibitive (eg. tramotina brand from brazil)

- saute and boiling operations are fine in disc pans 
(sitram and matfer and paderno are all good euro disc bottom brands)

- Fry pan is good to have options
- #1 frypan is best done in carbon steel 26 (high heat, debuyer/matfer/mauviel etc), 
- 2nd frypan is a larger one 28-32 in staineless for anything acid/reactive ...All Clad is good cause its light for size 
- 3rd frypan Non-stick - best are thick alu conductor layer (no need for clad because of non-stick)


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## HRC_64 (Jul 22, 2019)

Industrial brands and import knock offs of all-clad etc will vary by market,
so if you cannot get tramotina (all clad knock off) for example ... substitute 
maybe cuisinart (all clad knock off) or whatever the local/shop brand is.

If you can get to a resturant supply house you can try out alot for ergonomics 
...and deals on industrial brands for things like non-stick frypan


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## gstriftos (Jul 22, 2019)

Saw this one in local IKEA:
https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/sensuell-sauteuse-stainless-steel-grey-50324549/

Was astonished (feels like a tank, especially regarding it's price/ all Sensuell line seems well made) by it and will most probably be my next purchase. Has 25 years warranty but even if it lasts 10 then money well spend..


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

If you’re on electric now, I’d definitely think the Paderno is a very attractive option. Or sitram, they’re pretty similar. Oh, and sorry about the Pandora’s box, errr, link I left you.


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

Alright wel


rickbern said:


> If you’re on electric now, I’d definitely think the Paderno is a very attractive option. Or sitram, they’re pretty similar. Oh, and sorry about the Pandora’s box, errr, link I left you.


Is there a specific line on the sitram pans I should be looking at?


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

L


Migraine said:


> Alright wel
> 
> Is there a specific line on the sitram pans I should be looking at?


They renamed everything. The cheapest one is good. The Paderno May be slightly better, I think the disk is thicker and goes out to the ends. 

The Bentley of these pans are either demeyere or fissler. If you see a deal grab one of those, but if they’re too expensive (they mostly are for me) buy the Paderno. I own about 6-7 sitrams, they’re 25 years old. They’re damn good pans, I just like the Paderno disk configuration a little better. 

I switched to gas 6 years ago and started using clad sauté pans in sizes from 28 cm to 24 cm. Less burning on the edges. But on an electric hob the disk bottom pans are massively better. On a small disk pan the flame licks around the edge of the disk, it can burn at this juncture inside the pan. This is a non issue on your stove. 

I still use disks for all pots and larger pans


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

Okay. I do want to have lids for the saucepans - do I need to get the matching ones (>£20 each seems quite a lot) or can I get any old lids the right size?


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

It’s a pretty stable design. You can always buy lids in the future. 

You may get a kick out of this old thread

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/batterie-de-cuisine.40503/


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## HRC_64 (Jul 22, 2019)

Migraine said:


> Okay. I do want to have lids for the saucepans - do I need to get the matching ones (>£20 each seems quite a lot) or can I get any old lids the right size?



Sitram are standard metric and will take lids from anything metric


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## HRC_64 (Jul 22, 2019)

rickbern said:


> You may get a kick out of this old thread
> 
> https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/batterie-de-cuisine.40503/



+1 on all this gear... 





[/QUOTE]


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

Okay I currently have sat in my Amazon basket:

2 x Paderno 2-5/8 quart saucepans (the size up is bigger than I need, size down is more expensive so 2 this size seems best option):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000NIQHM4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

2 x stainless lids to fit above
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004EEIBMW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

1 x Paderno 7 quart rondeau:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000NIQHR4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Matching lid:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000NIOFWS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

De Buyer 28cm carbon frying pan:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000TSZPW6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

That seems like about what I need for now, can always add later. If nobody tells me I'm stupid and wrong in the next hour or so I'll press buy.


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

Migraine, I don’t want to drive you crazy, but...

What’s the use case for those 2.5 quart sauté pans? They’re 8” 20 cm diameter, I find 24cm 9.5” about the smallest practical size, even cooking for one. I wouldn’t buy more than one tiny one, unless you know exactly why you want it.

For my style, I’d get a 24 & 28 cm sauté pan and build out from there. Anything 20 cm I consider a pot for steaming rice, reheating soup. I’d get a pretty basic piece for something that small.


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## McMan (Jul 22, 2019)

DamageInc said:


> They easily take seasoning and get very slick. Heat retention is good, and the pans themselves are very sturdy. Also, they are at a good price point. What's not to love?



Yup, all of this and more responsive to heat change than cast iron. Goldilocks pans! I prefer to stainless.


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## McMan (Jul 22, 2019)

DamageInc said:


> They easily take seasoning and get very slick. Heat retention is good, and the pans themselves are very sturdy. Also, they are at a good price point. What's not to love?



Yup, all of this plus more responsive to heat change than cast iron. Goldilocks pans! I prefer to stainless. What’s not to like?


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

rickbern said:


> Migraine, I don’t want to drive you crazy, but...
> 
> What’s the use case for those 2.5 quart sauté pans? They’re 8” 20 cm diameter, I find 24cm 9.5” about the smallest practical size, even cooking for one. I wouldn’t buy more than one tiny one, unless you know exactly why you want it.
> 
> For my style, I’d get a 24 & 28 cm sauté pan and build out from there. Anything 20 cm I consider a pot for steaming rice, reheating soup. I’d get a pretty basic piece for something that small.



I was reading saucepans. Although is a saute pan that size not essentially a saucepan anyway?


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

It’s all percentage height to diameter.

Sauce pan 1h (height)—1d (diameter)

Sauté .5h—1d

Skillet .33h—1d and sidewalls slope

Stockpot 2h—1d

Maybe not exact, but conceptually correct.


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009A5W9VE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

So you'd call that a saute pan too?


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 22, 2019)

McMan said:


> Yup, all of this and more responsive to heat change than cast iron. Goldilocks pans! I prefer to stainless.



Hmm, maybe there is something wrong with my technique/usage. I have used cast iron and non-stick for ages - carbon steel is a relative newcomer in my life. So far the carbon steel has been pretty demanding maintenance wise: patina develops only to disappear, stickage is (at least sometimes) a real problem, and rust develops fast unless I am very careful. 
Apart from that results are often good and I like using it (apart from its inconsistencies).


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

Oh I've found the actual paderno saucepans now, rather than the small saute pans. Whoops.

EDIT:"usually dispatched with 1 - 3 months" - huh


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

Migraine said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009A5W9VE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1
> 
> So you'd call that a saute pan too?


Nope. That’s a saucepan. 

My ratios may be inexact. My basic premise is to lavish attention and money on pans you use with oil and to skimp on pans you use with water. Unless (perish the thought) money is no object.


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> Hmm, maybe there is something wrong with my technique/usage. I have used cast iron and non-stick for ages - carbon steel is a relative newcomer in my life. So far the carbon steel has been pretty demanding maintenance wise: patina develops only to disappear, stickage is (at least sometimes) a real problem, and rust develops fast unless I am very careful.
> Apart from that results are often good and I like using it (apart from its inconsistencies).


Carl, do you deglaze with wine or vinegar or cook with tomatoes? Any of those would discourage me from using carbon steel and send me running for the stainless steel.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 22, 2019)

rickbern said:


> Carl, do you deglaze with wine or vinegar or cook with tomatoes? Any of those would discourage me from using carbon steel and send me running for the stainless steel.



No, that is the thing: I have been very careful with acidic stuff so nothing of the sort ever gets into that pan. Must be something else. Thanks though!!!


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## HRC_64 (Jul 22, 2019)

Another issue is what size pan vs what size burner? carbon pans are better in mid-range sizes at home because the stove has small to mid size heating element...26cm debuyer will work great even on electric.

A huge steel pan like 32 cm on a small element (uneven distibution) used to cook small portions (uneven filling pan) will give you problems for a bunch of reasons (also heavy)...


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> No, that is the thing: I have been very careful with acidic stuff so nothing of the sort ever gets into that pan. Must be something else. Thanks though!!!


Also, I usually use those pans when they’re pretty hot. I infrequently use soap and LIGHTLY oil after use.


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

I'm going to get the 28cm De Buyer frying pan, the 4 1/2 quart Paderno rondeau and the 3l and 1.5l Vogue saucepans.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 22, 2019)

rickbern said:


> Also, I usually use those pans when they’re pretty hot. I infrequently use soap and LIGHTLY oil after use.



Thanks, I have been sloppy with using - or not using - oil (no soap at all yet) after use. Maybe picking up that habit will change things for the better.


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

Migraine said:


> I'm going to get the 28cm De Buyer frying pan, the 4 1/2 quart Paderno rondeau and the 3l and 1.5l Vogue saucepans.


Perfect starting point. Send a picture of the first meal!


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

Order placed so forever hold your peaces


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## Migraine (Jul 22, 2019)

rickbern said:


> Perfect starting point. Send a picture of the first meal!


Will do


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## TB_London (Jul 22, 2019)

Worth checking out Forge kitchenware for the carbon pan.
https://www.alexpoleironwork.com/forge-kitchenware/
I have one of Alex’s 11” skillet and it’s great. Cost a bit more than a debuyer, but he’s having the pans hand spun and is forging and fitting the handles. All made in the Uk and so far it’s handled everything I’ve thrown at it excellently.


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## rickbern (Jul 22, 2019)

rickbern said:


> It’s all percentage height to diameter.
> 
> Sauce pan 1h (height)—1d (diameter)
> 
> ...


Thought a picture or two would drive this point home


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## DamageInc (Jul 23, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> Thanks, I have been sloppy with using - or not using - oil (no soap at all yet) after use. Maybe picking up that habit will change things for the better.


America's test kitchen has a great method for seasoning carbon steel pans. Go watch their YouTube video on carbon steel pans and try it out. Works like a charm for me.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 23, 2019)

DamageInc said:


> America's test kitchen has a great method for seasoning carbon steel pans. Go watch their YouTube video on carbon steel pans and try it out. Works like a charm for me.



Thanks! Will do!


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 23, 2019)

DamageInc said:


> America's test kitchen has a great method for seasoning carbon steel pans. Go watch their YouTube video on carbon steel pans and try it out. Works like a charm for me.



How often do you do it? I followed the procedure demonstrated (or suffiently close to it) about a month ago, and I already experience problems.


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## DamageInc (Jul 23, 2019)

I do it once. Then I just cook like normal, but being careful not to cook anything too acidic for the first few months. I don't wash with soap, and I don't scrape the pan really hard with metal tools. That's it. My carbon pans are all matte black and super slick now.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 23, 2019)

DamageInc said:


> I do it once. Then I just cook like normal, but being careful not to cook anything too acidic for the first few months. I don't wash with soap, and I don't scrape the pan really hard with metal tools. That's it. My carbon pans are all matte black and super slick now.



Hmmm, I must be doing at least one thing wrong. But it is not the soap, and it is not the acids... To be continued.


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## Paraffin (Jul 23, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> Hmmm, I must be doing at least one thing wrong. But it is not the soap, and it is not the acids... To be continued.



Just a quick note here that you're not the only one. I have a DeBuyer crepe pan bought 6 months ago as my first carbon steel pan, and I haven't been happy with the seasoning. I don't have trouble with seasoning on my Lodge cast iron stuff, or my carbon steel woks. So I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong either. I'll jump on the other new thread about it and see what info I can pick up over there.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 23, 2019)

Paraffin said:


> Just a quick note here that you're not the only one. I have a DeBuyer crepe pan bought 6 months ago as my first carbon steel pan, and I haven't been happy with the seasoning. I don't have trouble with seasoning on my Lodge cast iron stuff, or my carbon steel woks. So I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong either. I'll jump on the other new thread about it and see what info I can pick up over there.



That’s a relief [emoji23] - I mean it! See you in the other thread!


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## Migraine (Aug 8, 2019)

Those vogue saucepans I bought are brilliant by the way. Highly recommended to any UK based lads.

The Paderno pan is obviously lovely too, but that was a known quantity.


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