# THE CHEF HAS NO COOKS!



## marc4pt0 (Nov 10, 2015)

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but...

I know a lot of chef's who have been complaining the past couple years about how hard it is to find AND keep good cooks. I'm one of them. But I saw this coming a mile away, and started talking about this day _ several_ years ago. Does this make me cool or wise? Nope. As a restaurateur it's one of many responsibilities to keep an eye on trends. All trends. And even though I knew this would get bad, and it will get worse, there's nothing I could have done to avoid being affected.

I used to work with high school kids in a program called Pro Start. As a mentor chef I considered it one of my duties to pitch the importance of what it REALLY takes to make it in this business. Some kids even picked up shifts at my restaurant. Most however did not. I'd say that one out of every group of 5 kids actually Got it. And I'd say less than that are still cooking somewhere. 

Are our fellow members/chef's seeing this overseas as well? I think our friend Mert has mentioned this to me before...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ent-noticed-but-chefs-are-freaking-out-about/


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## SousVideLoca (Nov 10, 2015)

We got interviewed about this by the local news a few months ago. It's a real thing.

Personally I blame the Food Network, and "Foodie Culture" in general - thousands of morons are blasting their way culinary school, convinced they'll be "rock star chefs"; they show up for interviews in black chef coats and bandannas like they're auditioning for _Chopped_, only to discover the reality of our industry: tremendously menial and repetitive labor under grueling conditions. No "subtleties and nuance and putting passion on the plate." Just manning a controlled grease fire for 10-12 hours a day, for crap wages, while being yelled at.

Combine that with the overwhelming sense of entitlement and ego handed out with High School diplomas these days, and these twerps blast through the system faster than undercooked chorizo.

Of the 12 cooks I supervise, there is _one_ who is under 30.


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## malexthekid (Nov 10, 2015)

My sister-in-law is a chef over here and from how eat it has been for her to pick up new jobs when she wants a change and from the want ads in the paper i think chefs are in quitw big demand over here.


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## marc4pt0 (Nov 10, 2015)

I blame the tattooed chef's on tv with their rugged demeanor and hip ways. All the cool cook books with pictures of over groomed rock star chef's posing with their arms crossed and throwing the mean mug at you. Denim and chucks have become the New Chef uniform, and every kid shows up for their interview wearing this stuff. And every kid is completely shocked when I ask them if they brought their knives because we're going to work in the kitchen for this interview.

I've got absolutely nothing against tattoos, accept the ones that lack originality or meaning. I my self have none, and who would've thought that makes _me_ different?
But these days I'm almost forced to give these kids a second look, because the Talent Pool is drying up. There was a time when I was annoyed by how many cooks would show up unannounced looking for a job. Now I barely see anyone showing up without my having posted want adds/ craigslist. And what a crock That is. It's like taking a stick and stirring up the muck at the bottom of the grease trap, lifting the stick up and seeing what falls off.


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## CoqaVin (Nov 10, 2015)

If I was in your area Marc I would work for you no doubt, I see what you're saying though, very frustrating for people like me, who are as hard-working as they come, damn kids giving me a bad name, anyone seen my wusthof?


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## buttermilk (Nov 10, 2015)

I wrote a wall of text about this for a large publication two months ago. It got cut, so I posted it on my site instead. I'll stay out of this as I get ranty about this topic pretty quickly, but I'll leave a link if anyone wants to hear my thoughts. The short of it is essentially what SousVideLoca wrote above: too much Food Network, fame-seeking, and entitlement. http://www.buttermilksupply.com/too-few-cooks-in-the-kitchen/


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## marc4pt0 (Nov 10, 2015)

CoqaVin said:


> If I was in your area Marc I would work for you no doubt, I see what you're saying though, very frustrating for people like me, who are as hard-working as they come, damn kids giving me a bad name, anyone seen my wusthof?



Haha! I'm more than flattered! Thank you


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## deltaplex (Nov 10, 2015)

At what point will the industry be forced to change? It seems Danny Meyer is already trying to get ahead of the ebb of worthwhile cooks (with results tbd); Rene Redzepi as well. I know very few people who want to sign up for the requirements of the job as laid out by Sam in his well written post.


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## spoiledbroth (Nov 10, 2015)

I read recently that Keller pays cooks minimum 36k a year. I can't imagine what morale must be like in those restaurants.


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## Mucho Bocho (Nov 10, 2015)

Great article Butter. You've articulated why I work in high tech even though my passion is food/ culinary arts. Nothing like working/cooking from home.


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## aboynamedsuita (Nov 10, 2015)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Great article Butter. You've articulated why I work in high tech even though my passion is food/ culinary arts. Nothing like working/cooking from home.



+1
Well, kinda working from home would be pretty cool, I should use my VPN more often :idea2:


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## ecchef (Nov 10, 2015)

As kind of an 'old school' Chef, I agree with Jack and Marc. Like pretty much everything else in American culture these days if it's not 'edgy' and 'in your face' (correct usage?) it's not worth any attention. So it goes with todays chefs. 
I started seeing this when I was a volunteer instructor in NYC many years ago when the Food Channel first started making some impact. The kids coming through the program thought it was an easy and exciting way to make some bucks. Once they got that notion slapped out of their slumbering minds, the attrition rate was astonishing. These aspiring chefs were from the fast food generation; everything came from the supermarket all pre-packaged and RTU. None of them had ever seen a butcher's shop or a greenmarket. They'd go to MacDonald's for lunch. 
Today, it's even more difficult. Back then, if you really didn't relate to chemistry, mathematics and physics in school, you could still become a decent cook. Now with all this attention on molecular cuisine, kids that are less than rocket scientists (no offense Lucretia ) can be intimidated at the thought of pursuing a culinary career. Like "If you don't come to work with a sharp knife _and_ a rotary evaporator you'll be an overworked/underpaid line cook forever." I feel bad that there's a dearth of good talent coming up through the ranks. But it's not just in the US. The best cooks I can get here are contract labor, and most of them are older than me. But at least they know how to sharpen their knives..


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## WildBoar (Nov 10, 2015)

When I was a teenager (early '80s) none of the kids I knew wanted to get onto the pro kitchens. The ones I knew who cooked did so because those were the most readily-available jobs for teenage males, and none stuck with it past either high school or college. It was good money to them at the time, but once they were out of school there were typically better paying options that did not require working nights, weekends, etc. It wasn't until being out of school for quite a few years that I started meeting cooks and chefs who were in it for the long-haul and enjoyed what they were doing. Their stories varied from the kitchen being the only place they could land a job when they immigrated to the US, to being screw-ups and dropping out of high school and needing jobs. But not one of them ever had aspirations of being a chef/ cook in their youth; they all just kind of fell into it.

Lots of people like that are still out there today. But of course there are many other types of jobs to land these days as well, especially in computer-related fields, that pay a lot more money. And combine that with the explosion in the number of restaurants, and the different work ethic of the current young generation, and something has to give. As a non-pro the most obvious thing to attract and keep cooks would be to raise the pay or to hire more staff so there are actually 2 full days off per week, and maybe every other major holiday off. That would help reduce the parts of the business that seem to suck the most.

All of these ramblings are just opinions/ observations from someone who had never enterered a restaurant kitchen other then to see all the cool stuff, and my frame of reference is the US, particularly the DC area.


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## turbochef422 (Nov 10, 2015)

Being located by the culinary institute if America I get student and graduates all the time. The problem is they don't want to start at the bottom. If I say the garde manager they want to run out. That station does a ton of raw bars which is good to know how to do, make their own bacon, kimchi, breakdown fresh fish and of course all dressings, aioli ect... In the winter that station helps our in house bakery and helps me make fresh pastas, ravioli and gnocchi. Great opportunity for someone just out of school but they still don't want to do it. They all want to work sauté and shake the pans till they flame up. I even have a program set up to move up and learn multiple stations. The ones that stay say they don't want to work the hours/ holidays...idk. The good ones stay for about a year soak it all up and get offered an executive chef position kinda by default for smaller places in the area. That's another problem I see giving them chef positions to save a little money getting someone with less experience but they are willing to work. It's good for me though as I've never had so many offers by the places that hire them they want me to go in an clean up the mess the culinary grad leaves.


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 11, 2015)

We used to use the culinary students as free labor during the busy season gives them a taste real world of kitchen work. Mostly got pushed into doing prep work and banquet dish outs. At the school no need to work fast. On the job must be organized and fast it comes with experience.

So many kids these days have ink on the body at least not so bad in the kitchen. Front of the house different. Cannot have tattoo showing. Most places the pay is not good for kitchen work plus you may have to bust A#$ every day. I know that certain % of culinary graduates wash out.

I think it maybe harder on kids these days to get ahead. The world is so competitive helps to have drive. 

I cannot judge, never went to culinary school. Was airbrushing surfboards, deckhand on fishing boat. Started working in kitchens at night so could surf in the daytime. Learned on the job how to carve ice business grew carving for Hotels & putting back in freezer. With my night job mostly hotel banquets was working all the time hardly had time to surf. Over 40 years of full time kitchen & Ice business never hurt just kept me busy. A lot of my friends are in the business or retired from it like me. Still love to cook. 

It is not uncommon for people in Hawaii to work two jobs.


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## marc4pt0 (Nov 11, 2015)

turbochef422 said:


> Being located by the culinary institute if America I get student and graduates all the time



That sucks. I'm sorry.
No offense to CIA grads, as I'm sure there's a few here. The problem is in the ratio- cia is pumping out hundreds of grads like every 3 months from 3 different locations? That's a LOT of students, and obviously not all can be good. There were several knuckle heads in my school, but the student body of NECI is Way smaller than cia. One out of ten just isn't the same when comparing student bodies.

I say this as the majority, and I mean MAJORITY, of cia grads I've worked with have possessed this sense of entitlement and just lack the steam to back it up. I saw them get torn up and kicked out, and after time it was me doing the kicking out.


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## ecchef (Nov 11, 2015)

We used to joke about how a CIA grad needed three procedures to boil water; blanch it, simmer it, finish it in the oven. 
Some made it, some didn't.


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## Dardeau (Nov 11, 2015)

We have a killer CIA extern right now, but she is a exception to the rule. Some of the **** she tells me that they teach her is shocking, especially some of the business lessons are so outdated. Costing a plate as a meat, sauce, and two sides doesn't make any sense in 2015. It didn't make a lot of sense in 1995. And these kids are in debt up to 100k to learn this.

The entitlement thing is less about culinary school, and more about lack of home training. I'm not much older than some of these kids, but there is a big generational or cultural gap there. A large portion of them seem totally fine with mediocrity, and in our work environment that is not acceptable. 

I can teach almost anyone how to cook. I have no idea how to teach grown people to think that their job is important, and how to take pride in what they do.

My partner claims I have a grudge against the upper middle class so take this with a grain of salt, but the majority of the entitled kids have college educations from private universities, no student loans, lack the drive to get scholarships or jobs within their fields, and if I fired them tomorrow their parents would pick up the pieces. They are people who don't know what failure feels like.

Hiring kids from the projects has its own set of challenges, and it can be just as difficult to instill a sense of pride and purpose, but at least those kids have motivation.


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## deltaplex (Nov 11, 2015)

So your preference is for those with (essentially) no other options?



Dardeau said:


> We have a killer CIA extern right now, but she is a exception to the rule. Some of the **** she tells me that they teach her is shocking, especially some of the business lessons are so outdated. Costing a plate as a meat, sauce, and two sides doesn't make any sense in 2015. It didn't make a lot of sense in 1995. And these kids are in debt up to 100k to learn this.
> 
> The entitlement thing is less about culinary school, and more about lack of home training. I'm not much older than some of these kids, but there is a big generational or cultural gap there. A large portion of them seem totally fine with mediocrity, and in our work environment that is not acceptable.
> 
> ...


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## fimbulvetr (Nov 11, 2015)

I think the preference is for someone who gives a damn, even if their motivation is desperation. 

The prevailing sense is that it's hard to hire gems out of a pool of kids who seem think being a chef is being Guy Fieri or that taking some pride in a menial job is for suckers


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## deltaplex (Nov 11, 2015)

Doesn't the motivation to give a damn (at least in part) come from the Chef? I think the prevailing notion can be summarized as: is that it's hard to hires gems for a job that pays below minimum wage, with no benefits, no sick time, and high risk for injury and abuse.



fimbulvetr said:


> I think the preference is for someone who gives a damn, even if their motivation is desperation.
> 
> The prevailing sense is that it's hard to hire gems out of a pool of kids who seem think being a chef is being Guy Fieri or that taking some pride in a menial job is for suckers


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## malexthekid (Nov 11, 2015)

deltaplex said:


> Doesn't the motivation to give a damn (at least in part) come from the Chef? I think the prevailing notion can be summarized as: is that it's hard to hires gems for a job that pays below minimum wage, with no benefits, no sick time, and high risk for injury and abuse.



Pretty much this. 

Ultimately there comes a point where you need to look at other options than just blaming the people. I love cooking. I would love to be a chef. But ultimately I have other skills that mean i can get paid a lot more for working an 8 to 5 job (that i also enjoy). And the whole we need people that love it just doesn't cut it at this road because you need to be able to live off your career


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## Dardeau (Nov 11, 2015)

I think the motivation to give a damn comes from responsibility for yourself, your actions, and the work you produce. It is really hard to hire good people, it always has been. There are just a lot more bad applicants than there have been in the past. malexthekid and deltaplex, you are honest with yourselves. You are the people who look at what we do for a living and say "****, that looks like a lot of work, I don't want to do that". And that is totally fine, I would probably have some serious problems working in an office all day, it takes all kinds. The problem we have is that kids who are tempermentally unready to be held to the standards that are required see our field as desirable. It as if someone working in the hard sciences had a glut of applicants for a job that don't think that double-checking the math, or measuring every time is important. 

Malexthekid, I totally agree with you that people need to live off of their career. Are you willing to pay 200 dollars for a meal that you pay 75 dollars for now? Because that is what it would take to pay line cooks like other recent college graduates. These students that spend the kind of money that would get you most of the way through a law degree at a southern state university come out making$ 14/hr at the high end of starting pay, and then they have to make crippling student loan payments. It is a totally rotten system. The restaurant that I work for struggles to pay our staff fairly for the work they put in. None of them are getting wealthy, but nobody is struggling to pay rent. We offer healthcare and retirement. But food is not getting any cheaper, nor are any of the other costs of doing business. The base economics of running a restaurant don't allow for paying much more than that as a starting salary for a cook.

And it is partly the responsibility of the chef, as a leader, to motivate his or her staff to perform well. This keeps me up nights, trying to figure out why most of the cooks are happy to come to work, think what they do is important, and take pride in their successes and responsibility for their mistakes,while others are just filling time. Most of the cooks that are not suited to our restaurant are weeded out through the staging process, but every once in a while one will slip in. About half the time we can turn them around and get them to view what they do as important. The others just work their way out. The main thing I was pointing out are the vast numbers of people who don't want to do the job that they applied for, did not enjoy their stage, and don't seem to enjoy cooking still act shocked when after the stage we do not offer them a job.


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## malexthekid (Nov 11, 2015)

Dardeau said:


> I think the motivation to give a damn comes from responsibility for yourself, your actions, and the work you produce. It is really hard to hire good people, it always has been. There are just a lot more bad applicants than there have been in the past. malexthekid and deltaplex, you are honest with yourselves. You are the people who look at what we do for a living and say "****, that looks like a lot of work, I don't want to do that". And that is totally fine, I would probably have some serious problems working in an office all day, it takes all kinds. The problem we have is that kids who are tempermentally unready to be held to the standards that are required see our field as desirable. It as if someone working in the hard sciences had a glut of applicants for a job that don't think that double-checking the math, or measuring every time is important.
> 
> Malexthekid, I totally agree with you that people need to live off of their career. Are you willing to pay 200 dollars for a meal that you pay 75 dollars for now? Because that is what it would take to pay line cooks like other recent college graduates. These students that spend the kind of money that would get you most of the way through a law degree at a southern state university come out making$ 14/hr at the high end of starting pay, and then they have to make crippling student loan payments. It is a totally rotten system. The restaurant that I work for struggles to pay our staff fairly for the work they put in. None of them are getting wealthy, but nobody is struggling to pay rent. We offer healthcare and retirement. But food is not getting any cheaper, nor are any of the other costs of doing business. The base economics of running a restaurant don't allow for paying much more than that as a starting salary for a cook.
> 
> And it is partly the responsibility of the chef, as a leader, to motivate his or her staff to perform well. This keeps me up nights, trying to figure out why most of the cooks are happy to come to work, think what they do is important, and take pride in their successes and responsibility for their mistakes,while others are just filling time. Most of the cooks that are not suited to our restaurant are weeded out through the staging process, but every once in a while one will slip in. About half the time we can turn them around and get them to view what they do as important. The others just work their way out. The main thing I was pointing out are the vast numbers of people who don't want to do the job that they applied for, did not enjoy their stage, and don't seem to enjoy cooking still act shocked when after the stage we do not offer them a job.



Totally agree about cost of a meal though we do pay more over here (Aus) than you guys do. And i think you also being up a valid issue of the cost of education. Sorry but that is just stupidly high to come out if culinary school worth a debt the same as law school. Costs of degrees need to be linked to potential to earn. Not saying a line cook should be paid the same as a lawyer but they souks be able to survive. Pay back debt and at least eat.

But it is a big issue that will not really be solved. Restauranteurs will just have to find a way to adapt and survive.


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## Dardeau (Nov 11, 2015)

From what I understand Australia has a much more sane culinary education program, and better pay structure for what it is worth...


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 11, 2015)

Don't know if adrenaline junkie is it, I know that work best under pressure. I think that cooks and chefs that make it over the years have these type personalities. 

My friend who delivered Ice blocks for me paid 40,000 for his son's culinary school education. He was working large Hotel in Vegas didn't like it and quit. I wonder if he had paid for his education if he would give up so easy.


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## marc4pt0 (Nov 11, 2015)

School loans, secondary education, tuition prices constantly on the rise, this is the next bubble to pop. It may not be as messy as the real estate/mortgage disaster recently, but it's going pop for sure. Way too many kids coming out of schools (not just culinary) that are knee deep in debt and no prospect for employment in their field of "expertise".


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## panda (Nov 12, 2015)

blame it on hipsters/foodies/yuppies. i mean posers.

you have to be insane to want a career cooking and take it seriously, it's a horrible field! 
instead of driving home from work today, i went straight to the liquor store (one of those days) and wanted to try the new johnnie walker rye cask but walked out with canadian club reserve because that's all i could afford. depressing moment.
that said, i still wouldn't want to do anything else for a living.


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## rami_m (Nov 13, 2015)

Um, did I read that right? 40k to learn to cook? That's the roughly the same or even more than my engineering degree!


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## marc4pt0 (Nov 13, 2015)

http://www.neci.edu/admissions-fina...inary-arts/bachelor-of-arts-in-culinary-arts/

I paid 42k back in '99. Today it's 62k for the same program. That's a big debt to carry now a days


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## Adirondack (Nov 13, 2015)

Are there less expensive but just as viable options for people wanting to get into the industry? Would chefs here take someone out of community college just as readily as someone from the CIA or other such school? Is there some sort of apprenticeship option? I realize that in a busy kitchen, there might not be time for that.

What about older people, maybe looking for a second career? I expect to retire in 5 years. Love to cook. No formal training but I sear a mean scallop. Thought about trying to open a restaurant 30 years ago when there were few vegetarian options available. Won't have to pick kids up after school, etc. Have some nice knives. :biggrin: Would anyone be willing to take a chance on someone like me? Not too far to B'more, Marc.


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## marc4pt0 (Nov 13, 2015)

When I was in culinary school I met an older gentleman who was a big time Attorney in Manhattan, NY. Made a fortune but when his wife passed away he came to realize he had no clue how to cook. He spoke w/ some of his clients to get an idea of where to go restaurant-wise, in hopes to hang out in kitchens and eventually learn how to fend for himself at home. What was just 1-2 nights in kitchens turned into many days/nights. He was bit by the bug. He then asked several chefs what they recommended for culinary school. Most said NECI. He dropped/ sold everything and moved to Vermont. 

Chris is his name, and we became quite the duo when it came to off campus catering events. It was a way for me to earn extra cash and for him it was more experience. We simply wouldn't work a gig if we _both_ couldn't do it together. Serious minds, we weren't fond of working w/ others who just didn't give a crap or simply sucked. 

Sadly I believe I heard he passed away a couple years ago. But I think he did open his own little shop up and essentially "retired" a happy man.

If you're serious about hanging out in kitchens to learn the biz, hit me up! I've had several gentlemen hang out in my kitchens- some to learn, some to simply appease their passion in cooking on a different level.

As for schools, I really don't mind where they graduated from, unless it's CIA. CIA grads make me raise a weary eyebrow in suspicion. Those are the kids I work extra hard during a stage, if they even make it that far in the interview process. 

Generally though, if an applicant spent the time going through a culinary program I take it as a serious interest/investment in their career choice. Doesn't mean they're worth much, but I do like seeing it on a resume. And it might mean they know what mire poix is...


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## malexthekid (Nov 13, 2015)

rami_m said:


> Um, did I read that right? 40k to learn to cook? That's the roughly the same or even more than my engineering degree!



Yeah it's crazy isn't it.


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## linecooklife (Nov 13, 2015)

Adirondack said:


> Are there less expensive but just as viable options for people wanting to get into the industry? Would chefs here take someone out of community college just as readily as someone from the CIA or other such school? Is there some sort of apprenticeship option? I realize that in a busy kitchen, there might not be time for that.
> 
> What about older people, maybe looking for a second career? I expect to retire in 5 years. Love to cook. No formal training but I sear a mean scallop. Thought about trying to open a restaurant 30 years ago when there were few vegetarian options available. Won't have to pick kids up after school, etc. Have some nice knives. :biggrin: Would anyone be willing to take a chance on someone like me? Not too far to B'more, Marc.



The real problem is that places like CIA cost as much as a traditional college degree these days. But they do not prepare the graduate for the type of position needed to easily pay back that debt. In other words student debt is clearly a huge problem in America. That said a student who graduates law school will be deep in debt but if there any good they can find a job that may pay six figures and within a few years be debt free. 
On the other side you have a recent CIA grad, now I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule but most if not all of them are rarely qualified to make more than 15$ an hour. I know from personal experience I have hired a handful of CIA and NECI grads and started all of them at 12$ an hour. And to be honest half of them wernt even worth that. Because the real truth of the matter is that cooking in a restaurant is not something that can be taught in a classroom. You can teach technique and fundamentals but being a chef takes years if not decades of hands on experience. And even then your looking at 50-80k a year. Now I'm not saying it's easy to become a lawyer but the idea of getting deep in debt for your education without the ability to get a job that will enable you to pay it off within a couple years is ludicrous. 
Personally I went to community college for my culinary arts certificate and worked in a kitchen while I was there. The college was free ( I'm poor) and I got payed to work in a kitchen. I walked out of it less than a year later just as qualified if not more so than some CIA grads. Granted this was not the general rule of my class mostly screw ups and drop outs, but like anything you get out what you put in. I took it upon myself to learn technique to research and practice outside of the classroom. 
I guess what I'm saying is there are many ways to become a chef but none don't include hard work and I can't see the purpose of getting deep in debt for a job that doesn't pay that well
As with anything in life there are exceptions to the rule and some CIA grads are dedicated hard working kids passionate about cooking, use their education to get into amazing kitchens and quickly move up. But I think we all know this is not the norm. 
Just my two cents


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## aboynamedsuita (Nov 13, 2015)

marc4pt0 said:


> http://www.neci.edu/admissions-fina...inary-arts/bachelor-of-arts-in-culinary-arts/
> 
> I paid 42k back in '99. Today it's 62k for the same program. That's a big debt to carry now a days



Is there an early exit option or something? I see $113,560. Either way that is quite the price to pay considering the evening potential. That said, $ isn't everything and (as the saying goes) if you get a job you like you'll never work a day in your life.


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## brainsausage (Nov 13, 2015)

Adirondack said:


> Are there less expensive but just as viable options for people wanting to get into the industry? Would chefs here take someone out of community college just as readily as someone from the CIA or other such school? Is there some sort of apprenticeship option? I realize that in a busy kitchen, there might not be time for that.
> 
> What about older people, maybe looking for a second career? I expect to retire in 5 years. Love to cook. No formal training but I sear a mean scallop. Thought about trying to open a restaurant 30 years ago when there were few vegetarian options available. Won't have to pick kids up after school, etc. Have some nice knives. :biggrin: Would anyone be willing to take a chance on someone like me? Not too far to B'more, Marc.



I've had far better luck as both a co-worker, and a manager, with non-culinary school grads. Be it complete newbs, or cats who just fell into kitchen work.


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## SousVideLoca (Nov 14, 2015)

> I've had far better luck as both a co-worker, and a manager, with non-culinary school grads.


I'd rather see "spent a year flipping hashbrowns at IHOP" on a resume than "culinary school grad." The education has surprisingly little relevance to the occupation, especially considering its price.


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## linecooklife (Nov 14, 2015)

SousVideLoca said:


> I'd rather see "spent a year flipping hashbrowns at IHOP" on a resume than "culinary school grad." The education has surprisingly little relevance to the occupation, especially considering its price.



I'd have to agree to an extent. Having spent much more of my cooking career looking at resumes than I would like, I do like to see culinary school on one. But 5 or more years ago and followed by consistent line work at a few non chain restaurants since then. Most of the kick ass line cooks Iv hired or worked along side over the years have some culinary school, it's a good place to learn fundamentals and shows that your serious about being a cook. It only looks good on a resume to me if they have proved that they can hack it in a real kitchen tho
From my experience the most common CIA NECI graduate applicants were just wasting time. They didn't know what they wanted to do after high school and didn't want to go to college, but their parents had money and they watched food network so they figured they'd go to culinary school. Basically just postponing leaving the nest and figuring out their lives. These ones don't last long. Once they see what restaurant work is really like they run for the hills. I once had a NECI grad put linguini in cold water and put it on the burner, when I asked what he was doing he said "I can never remember with pasta if your supposto boil the water first"


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 14, 2015)

In large Hotels you can spot the hardest working dishwashers and train them to cook on the job. Many workers off the boat don't speak fluent English, does not mean they are not smart and hard working. Sorry Donald Trump.:O


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