# Rediscovering "old" stones



## Cloudsmoker (Oct 29, 2020)

Do you guys ever pick up a whetstone you put aside only to pick it back up wondering "where have you been my whole life"? For me, this week, it's the Chosera 3000. The Chosera 800 is my go-to sharpening stone, but could never find my groove with the 3000, which lots of folks here like. So off into the rabbit hole looking for the perfect medium grit, trying out way too many. For no good reason, grabbed the 3000 out of storage - which now leaves me trying to determine if I should feel happy or sad. Looking for a support group. The faster we go, the rounder we get.


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## BillHanna (Oct 29, 2020)

You rediscovered it when you were supposed to. Now take the others over to BST lol.


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## Lars (Oct 29, 2020)

Bester 1200 for me. Have fallen completely in love with that stone(again).


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## Ruso (Oct 29, 2020)

King Deluxe when used on simple carbons.


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## M1k3 (Oct 29, 2020)

Ruso said:


> King Deluxe when used on simple carbons.


I was going to say the same. King Deluxe 1k.


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## Walla (Oct 29, 2020)

I have an on again off again relationship with the green brick...

I just can't figure that stone out... I keep going back to it...then get distracted by something else...and the cycle continues...

Take care

Jeff


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## zizirex (Oct 30, 2020)

Arashiyama 6K, nice polish, could get a nice edge when working properly and nice feedback.


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## ModRQC (Oct 30, 2020)

Getting better... need new stones... getting better... the old ones feel anew.

I guess a mix of « getting tired » of one stone and evolving to another plateau where you get perspective.

My likely candidate of being left aside would be the SP5K... but I’m not sure it’s the kind of stone you ever fall in love with anyhow, let alone rediscover later. I finish soft SS with SP2K, anything else mostly gets the Rika treatment.

Then and again, I don’t feel like building up on my finishing stone, just aim to finish quickly, and that’s when I use the SP5K... and remember vividly why I don’t like it much.


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## Xenif (Oct 30, 2020)

This happens to almost every jnat Ive kept. As skill improves, stones begin to feel diffrent because YOU can now feel the diffrence vs. in the beginning days. And conversely some stones I thought were hot stuff I dont care for as much anymore.


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## GorillaGrunt (Oct 30, 2020)

All the time, and at least for me it’s not just further practice over time but also changes in the portfolio of knives I’m sharpening.


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## jwthaparc (Oct 30, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I was going to say the same. King Deluxe 1k.


For me it was the king deluxe 1200, after I permasoaked it.


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## cotedupy (Dec 10, 2020)

jwthaparc said:


> For me it was the king deluxe 1200, after I permasoaked it.



I have a KDL 1200, and *quite* like it. How does permasoaking affect it in your experience...?


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## Jovidah (Dec 10, 2020)

Still waiting for this moment on my Naniwa Pro/Chosera 5000... 
I always liked the 1k / 3k from the start.


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## dafox (Dec 10, 2020)

zizirex said:


> Arashiyama 6K, nice polish, could get a nice edge when working properly and nice feedback.


Do you soak it or splash and go?


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## zizirex (Dec 10, 2020)

dafox said:


> Do you soak it or splash and go?


Mine already have a crack, so I need to soak it.

I just bought the Arashiyama 1000, it cuts pretty fast and it soaks a little water to start but it’s ready to go after first flattening.


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## jwthaparc (Dec 11, 2020)

cotedupy said:


> I have a KDL 1200, and *quite* like it. How does permasoaking affect it in your experience...?


In my experience it seemed like it somehow dished less, and became a bit less muddy. It acts a lot like my chosera 800 now I would say. Great feedback.


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## cotedupy (Dec 11, 2020)

jwthaparc said:


> In my experience it seemed like it somehow dished less, and became a bit less muddy. It acts a lot like my chosera 800 now I would say. Great feedback.



Ta! I put mine in water last night after reading your post, so will give it a go. Less muddy would be good tbh, I thought I liked muddy stones but this is so thick and goes everywhere!


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## jwthaparc (Dec 11, 2020)

cotedupy said:


> Ta! I put mine in water last night after reading your post, so will give it a go. Less muddy would be good tbh, I thought I liked muddy stones but this is so thick and goes everywhere!


Muddy has a place. If you are working on a wide bevel trying to get a nice beautiful kasumi finish, a muddy stone is a wonderful thing to have around. If you just want to touch up the edge of a knife quickly, having a stone so muddy you can't see the work you are doing can get in the way. 

Anyway, please update back. I would love to see if my experience with the stone is repeated.


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## psfred (Dec 19, 2020)

Lol, I never left my Bester 1200. Bought it for woodworking tools, specifically A2 plane blades and chisels, and have never quit using it. Should dig up my King stones again and see if they have "improved" as I've gotten more experience though, couldn't keep them flat enough for woodworking tools, they dished so badly I couldn't get a plane blade sharp edge to edge. Probably way too much pressure, my personal shapening failure. Shaving too, for that matter....


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## jwthaparc (Dec 19, 2020)

I know I personally dont have any problem setting a bevel with the king 1200, on a razor. I feel like if it is dishing that fast, you were definitely using way to much pressure. I Can't comment on sharpening tools though, I dont have any experience with those.


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## KingShapton (Dec 19, 2020)

The best way to use a King 1200 is almost without pressure. This stone can be a great stone..


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## psfred (Dec 20, 2020)

I may dig mine up and flatten them and try them with very light pressure then. Have them, might as well use them eh? And it's possible that it may help with my heavy handed habits!


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## Walla (Dec 20, 2020)

I think I'll dig out my 1200 as well...give it a go with really light pressure... I'm heavy handed as well...

Thanks for the suggestion...

Take care

Jeff


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## Benuser (Dec 21, 2020)

Hadn't used my Chosera 2k for quite a while. Jumped from 800 to 3k, used a Shapton 2k for stainless. Now go from the Chosera 2k to Belgian Blue Brocken or Hard Arkansas for the last deburring. Just for fun.


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## cotedupy (Dec 21, 2020)

jwthaparc said:


> Muddy has a place. If you are working on a wide bevel trying to get a nice beautiful kasumi finish, a muddy stone is a wonderful thing to have around. If you just want to touch up the edge of a knife quickly, having a stone so muddy you can't see the work you are doing can get in the way.
> 
> Anyway, please update back. I would love to see if my experience with the stone is repeated.



In a word - revelatory. I used it in earnest on a few different knives this evening and after seeing the result on the first, I took my 3k out of the bucket... and put it back on the shelf.

_Much_ less muddy, though still gets a bit going in a couple of passes. Light pressure (as others have said above) and it's a really great stone, and takes almost no time. Will be my go-to from now. I can't comment about dishing just yet, but it's not something that overly concerns me. I have an awful lot of sandpaper on hand to sort that out 

Also seemed to do me quite a nice kasumi last week (though I'm no expert and was slightly drunk)... mazaki knives


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## jwthaparc (Dec 21, 2020)

cotedupy said:


> In a word - revelatory. I used it in earnest on a few different knives this evening and after seeing the result on the first, I took my 3k out of the bucket... and put it back on the shelf.
> 
> _Much_ less muddy, though still gets a bit going in a couple of passes. Light pressure (as others have said above) and it's a really great stone, and takes almost no time. Will be my go-to from now. I can't comment about dishing just yet, but it's not something that overly concerns me. I have an awful lot of sandpaper on hand to sort that out
> 
> Also seemed to do me quite a nice kasumi last week (though I'm no expert and was slightly drunk)... mazaki knives


Nice! I knew I wasn't crazy. Permasoaking turns the king 1200 into something much better. I've made the comparison before, but I feel it is quite apt for this. It is very similar to the chosera 800, after it is permasoaked. At least to me.


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## SolidSnake03 (Dec 21, 2020)

Started using a King Deluxe 1200 again as well a few weeks back just for fun. It's excellent when perma soaked, it's the best one of the medium grit 800,1000 and 1200 in my option when perma soaked. Used it on an old Sab and some Blue #1 Murata as well as some light thinning on the Murata. Great stone, sticky edge, stormy grey finish on the bevel, fairly fast and cheap ($28.00), what not to like? Mud production when using a sink bridge was fairly manageable and not sticky, easy to control and didn't dish too fast. Stropped on newspaper after and had a very nice edge. Edge retention on this set up was quite good, after 3-4 hours of banging on some cheaper random wood grain board (it's my gf's so no idea but definitely not end grain or anything too soft) still was "stick in your nail, oh gotta touch this one real gently" sharp. 

Way better than the King Deluxe 1000 and way better than I would have expected for this cheap. The edge retention surprised me too, normally I lose that really sticky and scary edge pretty quick but this looks like it will hold for a while. Overall I'm really impressed.


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## KingShapton (Dec 21, 2020)

I am happy that the King 1200 is being rediscovered or rediscovered by many here.

This great stone is so often underestimated or wrongly not recommended.


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## NO ChoP! (Dec 21, 2020)

Taking it way, way back, when I started with a few Macs, I purchased a Norton 4 stone set. I keep them in my shop now, and rarely use them. When I do, I find the 4k to be very enjoyable, silky smooth with little clogging.


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## SolidSnake03 (Dec 21, 2020)

As an add on, still not a fan of the King 6000, just seems to load for me too fast/not cut enough but open to advice on rediscovering that one too.

May grab a King Hyper 1000 soft to see what I think. Have the regular King Hyper 1000 (sold one and bought it again thinking I didn't give it a fair try) and like it but honestly prefer the feel and slight softness of the 1200 Deluxe after perma soaking. One note, haven't used the Deluxe 1200 on powdered steels yet but works just fine on all my carbons (tried some White and Blue Super too) and my Ginsan as well as my random cheaper stainless. Don't have any Honyaki or really high wear resistant stuff like Hap40 or Zdp189 so can't say but figure the 1200 deluxe may not like those.


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## M1k3 (Dec 21, 2020)

SolidSnake03 said:


> As an add on, still not a fan of the King 6000, just seems to load for me too fast/not cut enough but open to advice on rediscovering that one too.
> 
> May grab a King Hyper 1000 soft to see what I think. Have the regular King Hyper 1000 (sold one and bought it again thinking I didn't give it a fair try) and like it but honestly prefer the feel and slight softness of the 1200 Deluxe after perma soaking. One note, haven't used the Deluxe 1200 on powdered steels yet but works just fine on all my carbons (tried some White and Blue Super too) and my Ginsan as well as my random cheaper stainless. Don't have any Honyaki or really high wear resistant stuff like Hap40 or Zdp189 so can't say but figure the 1200 deluxe may not like those.


Yeah I'm still not a fan of my King 6k. I keep trying to line it. It's not working. It works as a stone, just doesn't click.


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## KingShapton (Dec 21, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Yeah I'm still not a fan of my King 6k. I keep trying to line it. It's not working. It works as a stone, just doesn't click.


The King 6000 is not a bad stone, but not a really good one either.

He makes sharp, but without bite.

The King 4000 is a whole other caliber (at least for me). Very good feedback and he makes an aggressive edge with a lot of bite.


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## SolidSnake03 (Dec 21, 2020)

Wait there is a King 4000??? Where do you find that one?


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## KingShapton (Dec 21, 2020)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Wait there is a King 4000??? Where do you find that one?


Dictum, fine tools, amazon and some Japanese Online-Shops.


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## kayman67 (Dec 21, 2020)

I remember that at some point since of sharp said that the main problem with 6000 was exactly the fact that will make the edge too aggressive. 

Yes, there is a standalone 4000 or combos, 800/4000 or 1000/4000.


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## SolidSnake03 (Dec 21, 2020)

Wow thanks! Greatly appreciate that, going to have to track one of these down. I assume the 4000 is splash and go like the 6k? Also, maybe silly question but can you soak the 6k to change the feeling or loading of it? Curious if that might work? 

The 6k does seem to overly refine the edge that im losing a lot of bite in a bad way


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## KingShapton (Dec 21, 2020)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Wow thanks! Greatly appreciate that, going to have to track one of these down. I assume the 4000 is splash and go like the 6k? Also, maybe silly question but can you soak the 6k to change the feeling or loading of it? Curious if that might work?
> 
> The 6k does seem to overly refine the edge that im losing a lot of bite in a bad way


A short soaking is possible, I didn't try permasoaking with the 6k.

To solve the problem with the loading, try the king nagura, often sold as "Matsunaga Nagura", that works for me.


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## captaincaed (Dec 21, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Yeah I'm still not a fan of my King 6k. I keep trying to line it. It's not working. It works as a stone, just doesn't click.


The standard King 6k loads super fast, doesn't leave the best edge. It's an "it'll do pig" stone for me.

Not and old stone but I ignored the Shapton 500 live for years. Why!?!? What a nice stone.


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## amithrain (Dec 21, 2020)

SolidSnake03 said:


> As an add on, still not a fan of the King 6000, just seems to load for me too fast/not cut enough but open to advice on rediscovering that one too.


You sold your King 6000s to me a couple months back, if you remember. I like the stone: despite what I’ve heard some say, it’s absolutely a true splash and go. I permasoaked the stone for two weeks, and after taking it out, the stone was completely dry in five minutes. It’s been quite hard for me. Even in polishing wide bevels, it barely produces any mud buildup, just swarf. Resists dishing very well. You’re right, though, about cutting speed—it is a slow stone. It does polish pretty consistently, though, to a near-mirror. The feedback wasn’t ever exceptional for me: it‘s not like it’s bad feedback, but the stone just doesn’t have much feedback. If you’re off angle, it’ll tell you subtlety. 
Loadup hasn’t been too much of an issue. The majority of loadup can just be wiped off the stone.
Not really an edge stone. Leaves a very smooth edge.
Maybe I haven’t rediscovered it yet, but there are probably better stones out there. I do still really like it.
It does kind of smell like poopy mud though


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## SolidSnake03 (Dec 21, 2020)

I'm glad you're having a way easier time than me with it! I actually rebought one after I sold you that one because I figured maybe something was wrong with how I was using it, I think I'm just not patient enough with it and I use too much pressure. That's good to know that it is actually splashing go and the perma soaking doesn't do anything. I still have another one in the closet so I may bust it out again and play with it once I get the 4K as well. 

Good to hear that's working out for you and that's good advice on it not really being that good of an edge stone because too smooth. Maybe I'll play with mine again for wide bevels polishing...


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## KingShapton (Dec 21, 2020)

amithrain said:


> Not really an edge stone. Leaves a very smooth edge.


I had better results when I only did light stropping on the 6k after the 1.2k. The result is an edge with more bite.

But I don't like this type of hybrid edge, so I rarely do it


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## jwthaparc (Dec 21, 2020)

SolidSnake03 said:


> As an add on, still not a fan of the King 6000, just seems to load for me too fast/not cut enough but open to advice on rediscovering that one too.
> 
> May grab a King Hyper 1000 soft to see what I think. Have the regular King Hyper 1000 (sold one and bought it again thinking I didn't give it a fair try) and like it but honestly prefer the feel and slight softness of the 1200 Deluxe after perma soaking. One note, haven't used the Deluxe 1200 on powdered steels yet but works just fine on all my carbons (tried some White and Blue Super too) and my Ginsan as well as my random cheaper stainless. Don't have any Honyaki or really high wear resistant stuff like Hap40 or Zdp189 so can't say but figure the 1200 deluxe may not like those.


The best recommendation I can give for the 6000 is get the king 8000 grit nagura, and raise a slurry with it before starting. That seems to help. I think I actually might like the king 4000 more than the 6000.


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## KingShapton (Dec 21, 2020)

jwthaparc said:


> I think I actually might like the king 4000 more than the 6000.


I like the King 4000 way much more than the King 6000.


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## ModRQC (Dec 21, 2020)

For King stones I know Lee Valley in Canada hold a variety of them, so perhaps in the US they do too. They had the #4000 in Canada last time I checked but it seemed somewhat of a short supply from the warehouse availability I saw.


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## SolidSnake03 (Dec 21, 2020)

Success! I was able to score a 4K grit King from Amazon USA, it is the smaller "home version" but should be fine, appears to be the same as the larger and combo ones Just a smaller size.

I'll report back on what I think of it. Sounds like I'll like it more for sure.


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## M1k3 (Dec 21, 2020)

I've permasoaked my King 6k. @kayman67 had issues soaking his. Your mileage may very.


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## kayman67 (Dec 22, 2020)

Yeah. At that time there was a warning from King not to soak the stone, warning that's gone as far as I able to see a few months ago.


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## ModRQC (Dec 22, 2020)

My experience with King Deluxe 1200, FWIW, is that the more it's soaked the softer it feels, and the finer you can work its mud easily. From over 2 hours soaking to 30 minutes soaking, it goes from feeling softer and muddier to behaving a bit closer to Naniwa Pro 800 - coarser so but will feel quite hard and raise a dark slurry fast. Thirstier too but not so thirsty - 30 minutes soaking really seems to be the minimum soaking time for relative good behavior, and 1h30 for real smoothness.

If raising mud first all soaking times feel the same at once, but mud is much harder to refine as you go the less its soaked, and the stone is thirstier. Permasoaking would indeed seems to be the way for full commitment with this stone - but works well without, counting a long soaking period.

Stupid of me where I'm just used to real hard S&Gs but when using it as a med sharpening my Shi.Han I realized just a tad late how much the forward balance and heft of this knife naturally went through this stone. Nothing major as far as dishing goes when I caught up with my error but I had to flatten and restart the edge - can mess up a sharpening experience. I had just used it on a knife as heavy but backward balance, and another one midweight forward balance, with no such surprise. Difference with heavy forward balance was really surprising so I'd really take heed to @KingShapton statement to use almost no pressure - and always start with blade weight only.

I was also quite delighted by Cerax #700. Works like a faster and more comfortable SP1K, leaves a bit coarser edge that still push cuts paper relatively keenly - didn't try but guessing it could do for a soft SS kitchen edge. Doesn't dish much with some heavy pressure thinning (monosteel FC61) except some waviness at the surface - then flattened without having still to redo the chamfer of the stone's edges. Doesn't raise as much mud naturally as Cerax #320 neither - behaved like a rather thirsty and muddy S&G but nowhere near a Cerax #320 ballpark. If forcing a slurry first it's a kindly smooth stone for how fast it works. That's also how I got FC61 to push cut paper relatively keenly, refining that slurry all along - not saying it wouldn't have without, for lack of testing it. I can push cut from most coarser stones I have, but paper always folds first to some extent. That's where I distinguish "keenly" in that this #700 behaves like a finer med stone for refinement. Comparatively speaking the King Deluxe 1200 leaves with all my refinement efforts a really grabby edge that's not as keen to push cut paper. Then again I probably still went with too much pressure altogether on the King in all my attempts so far so perhaps I don't know of its ultimate refinement possibilities.


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## Dakota Day Trader (Dec 22, 2020)

Well I have a KD1200 on the way, and now I'm looking to pick up that King 4000 stone a few here have mentioned, but wanted to make sure I get the correct one.

This is the KING stone off of Amazon:









And this is the King DELUXE stone from eBay:






It looks like BOTH the S-45 AND the F-3 are the smaller versions attached to the base. I can get the S-45 from Amazon in a few days. I can only find the F-3 on ebay, but it won't be available until mid January.

Can you tell me which one you got @KingShapton and @SolidSnake03?


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## SolidSnake03 (Dec 22, 2020)

I got the one off Amazon, mine arrives tomorrow already so I'll have some impressions posted this weekend probably. I saw the ebay ones too but didn't want to wait that long


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Dec 22, 2020)

Lee Valley has King 4000 stones. (They give sizes they carry, but don't give model numbers to help compare to the ones you've found.)


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## Dakota Day Trader (Dec 22, 2020)

Yet-Another-Dave said:


> Lee Valley has King 4000 stones. (They give sizes they carry, but don't give model numbers to help compare to the ones you've found.)



I did see those, thanks. That looks like the one off of Amazon.

That’s why I was kind of confused. The one from Amazon says KING stone, where the one off of eBay (the F-3) says king DELUXE. The F-3 is the one I saw on the King stone website.

Hopefully @KingShapton will chime in with which one he was recommending!


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## cotedupy (Dec 22, 2020)

SolidSnake03 said:


> I got the one off Amazon, mine arrives tomorrow already so I'll have some impressions posted this weekend probably. I saw the ebay ones too but didn't want to wait that long



Look forward to hearing some more thoughts on this. My local woodworking shop where I got my 1.2k carries a range of King stones including the 4k F-3, so might have to pop by after Christmas.


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## KingShapton (Dec 23, 2020)

Sorry for the late reply, the last days before Christmas are always hectic but this year is particularly bad.

If I remember correctly, the S-45 is a kind of "home stone" for private households and not intended for commercial use. It may be a little smaller, a little thinner, but should theoretically have the same composition and bond as the F-3. As a precaution, I say theoretically that years ago I had the K-45 version of the King 1000 and I mean that the stone behaved a little differently than the King Deluxe 1000, but it was a long time ago and I'm not sure.

I myself was lucky enough to get the large version from a German online shop








King Abziehstein, Körnung 4000 | King / Sun Tiger | Dictum


King Abziehstein, Körnung 4000 | King / Sun Tiger | Dictum




www.dictum.com





Often the King stones (manufacturer Matsunaga) are also sold under the label "Ice-Bear". The 4000 should also be there.

And here are two more links to the Nagura from Matsunaga I mentioned, just for viewing so you know what to look for

Nagura Stone Japanese Ice Bear Sharpening Stone by Japan Stone: Amazon.de: Baumarkt = 2L2UN5UXSSTF9 & dchild = 1 & keywords = nagura + stone & qid = 1608733906 & sprefix = nagura% 2Caps% 2C181 & sr = 8-3

King Japanischer Nagura Stein #8000: Amazon.de: Küche & Haushalt = 2L2UN5UXSSTF9 & dchild = 1 & keywords = nagura + stone & qid = 1608733906 & sprefix = nagura% 2Caps% 2C181 & sr = 8-2


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## Dakota Day Trader (Dec 23, 2020)

@KingShapton Thanks for the reply!


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## jwthaparc (Dec 25, 2020)

Dakota Day Trader said:


> Well I have a KD1200 on the way, and now I'm looking to pick up that King 4000 stone a few here have mentioned, but wanted to make sure I get the correct one.
> 
> This is the KING stone off of Amazon:
> 
> ...


I got the amazon one as well.


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## Dakota Day Trader (Dec 27, 2020)

So after a little more Google-fu and some luck on my part, I WAS able to track down a full sized 4000 grit King Super Deluxe ( F-1 stone) on this site: Epicurian Edge






Since this is the full-sized stone it was more expensive than the Amazon or ebay one, but I figured if it was a stone I was going to use on most of what I sharpen, getting the full sized with base would be worth it. They do also have the standard sized F-2 without the base in stock for $30 as well, if anyone else is looking. 

What blows me away is that I ordered this on Wednesday, and it just arrived a few minutes ago... on a SUNDAY!!!???

I'm going to wait to try it out until my 1200 KDS stone gets here on Tuesday, but it looks like I have a fun week of sharpening ahead.

Now I just need to figure out how to get this stupid sticker of the stone cleanly...


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## M1k3 (Dec 27, 2020)

Dakota Day Trader said:


> So after a little more Google-fu and some luck on my part, I WAS able to track down a full sized 4000 grit King Super Deluxe ( F-1 stone) on this site: Epicurian Edge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Soak it in water until the sticker is loosened. Then use a something with a flat and sharpish edge, if you happen to have something like that around


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## jwthaparc (Dec 27, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Soak it in water until the sticker is loosened. Then use a something with a flat and sharpish edge, if you happen to have something like that around


I was just going to say to peel it off and get the rest of what may be left with a nagura.


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## SolidSnake03 (Dec 28, 2020)

Hey All! 

So sorry for little longer response time than I was hoping for on this but I've tried out the King 4000 on a variety of knives and have some thoughts and feedback. 

First off, don't buy the King 6000, really, there is no reason to compared to the 4000. The 4000 seems to polish slightly less but still leaves some tooth to the edge. It's clearly less toothy than finishing on the King 1200 but definitely a much nicer working edge than finishing on the King 6000 which I found lacked bite and was a bit too slippery. 

King 1200 to King 4000 to newspaper strop yielded a toothy yet somewhat refined edge and solid bevel polish. No mirror but I wouldn't expect that at 4k anyway. This sharpening combo worked great on my carbon sabs and my white #1 TF petty. Not as big a fan of it on my stainless (prefer my coticule as a finisher then newspaper) but it's still a nice edge. 

Really in the case of carbon or stainless I prefer it vastly over the 6000. For carbons one could be really happy with a King 1200, King 4000 and some newspaper and it would cost you like $50.00 total for both. If you had only stainless I would lean more towards like a Shapton 1k and 2k if you didn't want to go naturals like a Coticule but really the 1200 and 4000 would work too. 

The 4k does load a bit like the 6k but better there as well. It doesn't instantly become impacted with metal like the 6k seems to. Also sharpening some of the wide or secondary bevel first to work up a slurry than sharpening with that works great for the 4k and keeps it from loading as fast.

I'm currently perma-soaking my King 4k just to see what happens, it's cheap enough ($26) when I got it from Amazon that I'm not too worried if it turns out badly. Can always grab another one.

Anyhow, it's a good stone and a hell of a solid finisher on carbon's for $25-26...so yeah it's good. Other stuff is better or nicer of course like a Chosera 3k but costs way way more. This is great for the price and really at double the price too compared to what even $50 gets you in a finisher.


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