# Do you use sandpaper instead of coarse stones?



## Dave Martell (Jul 25, 2018)

I've been doing this for some time and I gotta' say that I love it compared to using ANY coarse stone I've ever tried. It's incredibly quick to flatten a bevel using 120x paper w/water! When the paper gets slow you move to another spot and then toss it. I think that stones would cut as quickly if they would just stay flat but that's not the case, even the best of them are losers. 

The one thing that I get annoyed with is making the paper stay put where I want it. I've been using a granite plate as the flat surface/backer with water underneath, and it works OK, just not great. 

If you use sandpaper this way how do you hold it in place? I'm not going to glue or anything like that but I wonder if anyone's got an idea I haven't thought of.

James' (of Knives and Stones) Ultimate Sandpaper Holder is looking like something I'd like to try.


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## Nemo (Jul 25, 2018)

Whilst I don't have to do too much heavy duty low grit work, the Kasfly holder is pretty good. Built like a tank. Has a tensioning mechanism to hold the sandpaper taut. There are adhesive rubber pads that you put underneath that hold it still on the bench. You can back the sandpaper with the included silicone (or is it rubber?) for a bit of convex.
The only improvement that I could suggest's is that it's a little narrow (60 mm), so you don't get full value from a 100 mm wide sandpaper roll, but I think it's designed that way to allow you to comfortably get 3 reloads out of a 230 x 280 mm sandpaper sheet.


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## Matus (Jul 26, 2018)

A completely different idea - what about using a slow running #80 or #120 belt on a horizontally-ish positioned platen? The belt would be preferably running away from you, but if you keep the speed low that should work too. My grinder can accomodate such a position and I am planning to give it a go in the future.

To get back to your question - there was (while a little pricey as I recall), but very cool sandpaper-holder shown/promoted here on KKF that could be just what you are looking for. Or I could just come up with an idea ... I think I just did


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## Marek07 (Jul 26, 2018)

Matus said:


> ...
> To get back to your question - there was (while a little pricey as I recall), but very cool sandpaper-holder shown/promoted here on KKF that could be just what you are looking for. Or I could just come up with an idea ... I think I just did


I think you're referring to the one @Nemo referenced above. The Ultimate Sandpaper Holder by Kasfly. Highly recommended piece of kit despite its price tag. Find it here: http://www.knivesandstones.com/the-ultimate-sandpaper-holder-215mm-60mm-by-kasfly-czar-precision/


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## Kippington (Jul 26, 2018)

Coarse stones are such a pain in the a$$ to keep flat!
I tend to do most of my steel removal with the belts, then go more accurately with a coarse diamond plate. Sandpaper is a polishing thing for me (and good for beginner sharpeners on a budget).


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## Matus (Jul 26, 2018)

Marek07 said:


> I think you're referring to the one @Nemo referenced above. The Ultimate Sandpaper Holder by Kasfly. Highly recommended piece of kit despite its price tag. Find it here: http://www.knivesandstones.com/the-ultimate-sandpaper-holder-215mm-60mm-by-kasfly-czar-precision/



Yes, that is the one and is indeed looks like a well thought out and well made product.

EDIT: I actually need to try sandpaper for this purpose myself (when making a knife) as I often finish the bevel close to cutting edge on a stone to make sure I have not low spots or more serious issues there.


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## masibu (Jul 26, 2018)

I've been looking at this product for months whilst waiting for the sukenari ginsan to come back in stock. Get your eyes off it its mine!


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## abepaniagua (Jul 26, 2018)

I posted about this one: SandDevil


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## mikaelsan (Jul 26, 2018)

I do my very rough work on sandpaper as well, but I've never gotten the water on the back of the paper to work for me. Thinking of trying out some double sided tape for the purpose. I used to use a granite plate. My latest thing is I took some flat enough wood, stretched the paper over the side and stapled it on. But it's not a 100% flat on the sides


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## Mucho Bocho (Jul 26, 2018)

Abe, you could use that sanddevil but a wet side walk could work just as well.


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## HRC_64 (Jul 26, 2018)

If you have a big vice I would try this out.

https: //youtu.be/XMfnhCGsE1E?t=140



Use a big 4x4 block (rectangular) with a round belt-sander abrasive belt
It can be then tensioned with two wood blocks underneath 
you push the blocks out to the ends to pull the belt tight (the 90* corneers do the work).

He keeps it dead-flat by using a corian offcut on top of the 4x4, and
setup allows you to put an pliable/flex layer 
inbetween for convex edges. (skip ahead a bit here)
https:// youtu.be/XMfnhCGsE1E?t=985


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## Dave Martell (Jul 26, 2018)

Matus said:


> A completely different idea - what about using a slow running #80 or #120 belt on a horizontally-ish positioned platen? The belt would be preferably running away from you, but if you keep the speed low that should work too. My grinder can accomodate such a position and I am planning to give it a go in the future.




I have that exact set up already! LOL Being a sharpener before a knifemaker I set up a 2x48 grinder to lie down on it's back with the platen horizontal to the workbench top, belt running away from me. I have used this often to flatten/repair bevels but there's times where this is just a little too much for the task at hand.

Take for instance yesterday's work, a Watanabe petty, that needed just the slightest flattening done and the bevels are only 10mm or so tall. The grinder is just a little too much for this task yet doing it on coarse stones sucks so I went with the sandpaper. This went super quick.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 26, 2018)

Thanks for the ideas so far guys.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 26, 2018)

Hey Matus, maybe I could just lock my belt in place and work the knife right there on the platen? Just rotate to a new section as the abrasive wears?


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## Paraffin (Jul 26, 2018)

If you need something that doesn't dish like a course stone for the more aggressive sharpening/thinning jobs, why not use a diamond plate instead of sandpaper? Is it just a question of initial cost and sandpaper is cheap? Or do diamond plates wear out too fast when used aggressively?


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## Dave Martell (Jul 26, 2018)

Paraffin said:


> If you need something that doesn't dish like a course stone for the more aggressive sharpening/thinning jobs, why not use a diamond plate instead of sandpaper? Is it just a question of initial cost and sandpaper is cheap? Or do diamond plates wear out too fast when used aggressively?




One wide bevel knife can ruin a diamond plate.


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## masibu (Jul 26, 2018)

Wide bevels ruined my plates faster than anything else ive done with them. Its a massive waste and they lose their aggression quickly


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## chinacats (Jul 26, 2018)

Question out of ignorance but why wouldn't you just use the belt turned on rather than stopping the belt and sharpening by hand?


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## Dave Martell (Jul 26, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Question out of ignorance but why wouldn't you just use the belt turned on rather than stopping the belt and sharpening by hand?



Well I was sort of joking about that at first but then it doesn't seem too crazy after thinking about it. The thing with using the belt under power is that one wrong move and blam-o you've got a problem. Picture a blown out shinogi line. eek When you do it by hand it's a lot more controlled and often fast enough.


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## RDalman (Jul 26, 2018)

Sounds like you could use a vfd for your grinder.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 26, 2018)

RDalman said:


> Sounds like you could use a vfd for your grinder.



No truer words could be spoken.


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## Matus (Jul 26, 2018)

Dave Martell said:


> Hey Matus, maybe I could just lock my belt in place and work the knife right there on the platen? Just rotate to a new section as the abrasive wears?



Dave, I think that you have just nailed it. Seriously. Now you just find the belts that work best for this purpose.


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## JBroida (Jul 26, 2018)

i dont really get this... i guess if it works for you guys, great. But i dont really have issues using coarse stones at all. In fact, i rather enjoy quite a few of them. I just had some new ones made for me too... looking forward to testing them out when i have time.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 26, 2018)

Oh man Jon, you must have better stones over there than I've got, and no doubt that's so, LOL. 

Yeah I HATE coarse stones to death at this point but oddly enough the sandpaper has been treating me pretty good, as stupid as that sounds. 

But if you do ever get the holy grail coarse stone I might (Might!) try it. I'm just so uncaring for them right now that I can't see me bothering again....for a awhile anyway.


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## Paraffin (Jul 27, 2018)

Dave Martell said:


> One wide bevel knife can ruin a diamond plate.



Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!


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## milkbaby (Jul 29, 2018)

I don't have one but a 10 or 12 inch disc grinder/sander with variable speed seems like a really useful tool for decent flats/flat bevels. It's bigger area than a large flat platen so it shouldn't heat up as quickly. You could jerry-rig up a drip water cooling system if you can handle water everywhere in your workspace.

3M double sided tape sticks stuff together really good and should work for sandpaper on a reference flat like granite or glass. My cycling and triathlon friends say 3M Super 77 spray adhesive works for sticking their race numbers to sweaty clothing, maybe whatever aggressive that's a couple of steps down from that should be okay. I use sandpaper on glass to flatten my scales and I just hold the sheet of sandpaper with one hand and figure 8 the scales with the other... But I don't need as much pressure to flatten scales that hardened steel


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## PappaG (Jul 31, 2018)

Some dumb questions about using sandpaper. How/why does using water with the sandpapers come in to play? can you use any sandpaper with water? If not, what sandpapers should I be using w/water?

right now I'm fooling around with sandpaper for taking scratches off. I don't feel like it would work for thinning, but I would really like to try.
I have used all sorts of grits from home depot. can/should I wet it?


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## parbaked (Jul 31, 2018)

There are many types of sandpaper.
Most of the types found in hardware stores are for wood so they are used dry.
They should also have sandpaper designed for metal which will be labeled "wet/dry" on the back of the sheets.
These can be used wet or dry.

You go to an auto parts shop and try the wet/dry sandpaper they sell for body work.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...00-grit-wet-dry-sandpaper/41800/4511220?pos=0


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