# Shapton Pro120 & low grit options.



## branwell (Apr 27, 2021)

Hay Guys,

I have a side business sharpening, the bulk being super dull crap and German stainless knives. I need a stone that can blast through resetting bevels etc and stones like 320's and 400 are just way to slow. Low grit diamond plates are good speed wise but don't last. Some of the latest vitrified diamonds look interesting but I don't sharpen enough knives to justify the $400+ cost.

A stone that looks interesting is the Shapton pro 120 but it has a reputation for glazing. For those that have experience with it, does it glaze on crap steel or only harder carbons?

Are there any other stones that are worth considering in the 120 range. Needs to be splash and go and relatively robust.

( I've tried some of the super cheap stones like the American Mutt and while they do work, am hoping I can find something a little better )


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## inferno (Apr 27, 2021)

i've been grinding out an unhardened blade out of powder hss on my 120. never flattened it, never resurfaced it. it just keep on going. i think i have 2h on it so far.

ymmv i guess.

the 220 pro is slower but also good imo. get 2.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Apr 27, 2021)

I was using a Crystolon with water and loose 120 grit SiC periodically sprinkled on the stone the other day when grinding down the wide bevel on a kiridashi. It seemed pretty fast for a non powered system. I suppose that coarser sandpaper could be faster, but sand paper is a pretty expensive way to purchase abrasive. 

The loose grit adds abrasive while breaking the glaze on the stone.


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## zizirex (Apr 27, 2021)

Shapton 120 + Sic flattening stone + SIC grit. Dont use Atoma on SP 120


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## inferno (Apr 27, 2021)

i dont flatten mine. i just spread the wear.


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## ian (Apr 27, 2021)

I also like the glass 120. easier to flatten and deglaze than the pro.


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## M1k3 (Apr 27, 2021)

I'd suggest Sigma 240, it doesn't glaze and just keeps working. Needs periodic flattening though. Second suggestion is Crystolon. It works longer than the Shapton Pro 120 but will still need periodic resurfacing. Glass 120 sounds like a decent option also. Haven't used it yet.


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## Kawa (Apr 27, 2021)

Glass 120 glazes extremely in my hands. I need SiC powder to restore its coarseness.
After a few minutes it is way slower then my shapton pro 220, think in the chosera 400 range kinda feeling. The first minute it is faster though.
It does wear very slowly.


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## M1k3 (Apr 27, 2021)

Kawa said:


> Glass 120 glazes extremely in my hands. I need SiC powder to restore its coarseness.
> After a few minutes it is way slower then my shapton pro 220, think in the chosera 400 range kinda feeling. The first minute it is faster though.
> It does wear very slowly.


Have you tried thinning stainless cladding on it? On my SP120 stainless cladding and the stone get along nicely, except for the occasional small chunk taken out of the cladding.


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## Kawa (Apr 27, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Have you tried thinning stainless cladding on it? On my SP120 stainless cladding and the stone get along nicely, except for the occasional small chunk taken out of the cladding.



No I havent. I havent used it for any thinning so far. 
I have a Higonokami pocket knife in aogami (assume #2) which I bought as a gimmic (first carbon before before I bought carbon kitchen knives). I'm trying to zero bevel it before sharpening (making it thinner and getting a more acute angle. Just to see what I can get out of this knife). Using sandpaper for this (Im still in the coarse zone. Need more elbow grease). I havent considered the glass 120 because of my glazing experiences with it. Should I give it a try in your opinion?

So far I've only used the glass120 on crapp steel to remove chips/ reset bevel. Best I've used it for is Zwilling/Wusthof.


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## ian (Apr 27, 2021)

Kawa said:


> No I havent. I havent used it for any thinning so far.
> I have a Higonokami pocket knife in aogami (assume #2) which I bought as a gimmic (first carbon before before I bought carbon kitchen knives). I'm trying to zero bevel it before sharpening (making it thinner and getting a more acute angle. Just to see what I can get out of this knife). Using sandpaper for this (Im still in the coarse zone. Need more elbow grease). I havent considered the glass 120 because of my glazing experiences with it. Should I give it a try in your opinion?
> 
> So far I've only used the glass120 on crapp steel to remove chips/ reset bevel. Best I've used it for is Zwilling/Wusthof.



I had that glazing issue at first too, but not as much later on. Seemed to do fine on stainless.


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## M1k3 (Apr 27, 2021)

Kawa said:


> No I havent. I havent used it for any thinning so far.
> I have a Higonokami pocket knife in aogami (assume #2) which I bought as a gimmic (first carbon before before I bought carbon kitchen knives). I'm trying to zero bevel it before sharpening (making it thinner and getting a more acute angle. Just to see what I can get out of this knife). Using sandpaper for this (Im still in the coarse zone. Need more elbow grease). I havent considered the glass 120 because of my glazing experiences with it. Should I give it a try in your opinion?
> 
> So far I've only used the glass120 on crapp steel to remove chips/ reset bevel. Best I've used it for is Zwilling/Wusthof.


Give it a shot. On the SP120 stainless cladding helps release grit.


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## GorillaGrunt (Apr 27, 2021)

Sigma 240 or SP120 but with something other than an Atoma to flatten it


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## Qapla' (Apr 28, 2021)

zizirex said:


> Shapton 120 + Sic flattening stone + SIC grit. Dont use Atoma on SP 120


Which SiC flattening stones do you consider recommendable? Do they themselves need to be flattened (unlike diamond plates)?


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## zizirex (Apr 28, 2021)

Qapla' said:


> Which SiC flattening stones do you consider recommendable? Do they themselves need to be flattened (unlike diamond plates)?


cheapest and coarsest. I use suehiro one. the reason is not for accurately flat, but to recondition the surface if it's glazed. Also, you don't mess up a diamond plate if using a SIC powder.


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## Deadboxhero (Apr 28, 2021)

branwell said:


> Hay Guys,
> 
> I have a side business sharpening, the bulk being super dull crap and German stainless knives. I need a stone that can blast through resetting bevels etc and stones like 320's and 400 are just way to slow. Low grit diamond plates are good speed wise but don't last. Some of the latest vitrified diamonds look interesting but I don't sharpen enough knives to justify the $400+ cost.
> 
> ...





Buying all these different stones and wasting time flattening and deglazing after each knife is pretty expensive.

If only a sharpener got paid to flatten stones.

Over the past 10 years, I've accumulated an impressive collection of stones, everything had trade offs so it was essential I felt. Well, it adds up significantly over a decade so I think folks lie to themselves about saving money on owning an army of lower cost stones versus just focusing on quality.

I think folks should just be honest about what they need, sometimes it's just the thrill of getting new stones to explore all the time which is a hobby in itself.

Nothing wrong with that.


Personally, sharpening for me is a means to an end, not the end goal in itself. As I got older, my time became more limited and my personal tastes more demanding. Efficiency in the stones performance became essential.

Time is a very important commodity and I don't like wasting it cleaning and flattening stones after each knife I sharpen.
After 10 years, it got pretty old.

I don't think getting forum replies will satiate your curiosity.


Some folks just have to come to the same conclusion on their own or make their own conclusion.


I say just buy a Shapton Glass, a DMT plate, and Atoma Plate,a Venev stone etc

See what you like, after throwing some time and money at it. it's not always the destination, it's the journey.



Have fun.


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## Qapla' (Apr 28, 2021)

Deadboxhero said:


> I say just buy a Shapton Glass, a DMT plate, and Atoma Plate,a Venev stone etc


So you would recommend the Shapton Glass 120 over the Pro 120 then?


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## inferno (Apr 28, 2021)

imo just get a 120 and a 220 pro. try them out. theyre so cheap anyway. 

qapla i never tried the 120 glass but i own the 220 glass and 220 pro. 
pro is thicker. pro is slower. pro dishes faster. i have a feeling both stones will have abraded the same amount of metal when they are finished.


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## branwell (Apr 28, 2021)

inferno said:


> imo just get a 120 and a 220 pro. try them out. theyre so cheap anyway.



I got a Pro 220 to try by trade last week  and just ordered a 120.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Apr 28, 2021)

I think I asked this before, but do you have access to an outlet? A small Harbor Freight table-top belt sander sounds pretty attractive here.


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## inferno (Apr 30, 2021)

branwell said:


> I got a Pro 220 to try by trade last week  and just ordered a 120.



think you gonna like them. tried a lot of stones but these 2 are just really good, solid, no nonsense coarse stones. it just works.
no weirdness. 

i think the pro 220 is my most used coarse stone.


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## branwell (Apr 30, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I think I asked this before, but do you have access to an outlet? A small Harbor Freight table-top belt sander sounds pretty attractive here.



Some sort of a powered setup would be good if the number of knives gets much higher, but I am using the remote sharpening business as a gateway drug to my knife making business so I'm not trying to grow the sharpening side any bigger than it needs to be to feed the making business if that makes sense


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## DaM0w (May 1, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Sigma 240 or SP120 but with something other than an Atoma to flatten it



Why no atoma for flattening these stones?


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## M1k3 (May 1, 2021)

DaM0w said:


> Why no atoma for flattening these stones?


The Shapton Pro 120 will laugh at the atoma as it pulls the diamonds out. Then ask for more. Not sure why that's said about the Sigma 240, it's soft enough to flatten easily.


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## DaM0w (May 1, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> The Shapton Pro 120 will laugh at the atoma as it pulls the diamonds out. Then ask for more. Not sure why that's said about the Sigma 240, it's soft enough to flatten easily.



I’ve been looking to buy a 120, what should I use to flatten?


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## M1k3 (May 1, 2021)

DaM0w said:


> I’ve been looking to buy a 120, what should I use to flatten?


Loose SiC or sandpaper. I use 60 grit 3m cubitron/professional brand.


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## 4wa1l (May 1, 2021)

Anyone tried the Naniwa Gouken Aramusha 220?


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## M1k3 (May 1, 2021)

4wa1l said:


> Anyone tried the Naniwa Gouken Aramusha 220?








Naniwa Aramusha 220


Anyone have any experience with this stone? I need a new extra-coarse stone, and this is one I haven't heard much about. I'm looking for something that cuts fast, stays relatively flat, and is easy to follow up. Knifewear suggests that the Naniwa cuts faster and dishes slower than the Imanishi...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## 4wa1l (May 1, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Naniwa Aramusha 220
> 
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this stone? I need a new extra-coarse stone, and this is one I haven't heard much about. I'm looking for something that cuts fast, stays relatively flat, and is easy to follow up. Knifewear suggests that the Naniwa cuts faster and dishes slower than the Imanishi...
> ...



Thanks! I've been tempted to pick one up but haven't seen much info about it.


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## HumbleHomeCook (May 1, 2021)

branwell said:


> Some sort of a powered setup would be good if the number of knives gets much higher, but I am using the remote sharpening business as a gateway drug to my knife making business so I'm not trying to grow the sharpening side any bigger than it needs to be to feed the making business if that makes sense



It would seem there'd be crossover between the two venues for a small belt sander.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (May 1, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> It would seem there'd be crossover between the two venues for a small belt sander.


Heck, once you start thinking that way, why not bring a 2 x 72. They're not that hard to transport. And forget about wasting money on a small machine that you'll hardly use once you have the 2 x 72


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## branwell (May 1, 2021)

VICTOR J CREAZZI said:


> Heck, once you start thinking that way, why not bring a 2 x 72. They're not that hard to transport. And forget about wasting money on a small machine that you'll hardly use once you have the 2 x 72



Hahaha. I have a 2x72. It weights about 120lb. I'm too much of a wimp to carry that thing around 

I think 120 grit stones are a good solution for the moment.


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## Mikeltee (May 2, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Loose SiC or sandpaper. I use 60 grit 3m cubitron/professional brand.


What do you do? Attach it to a 2x4 block and go to town on a dry stone?


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## ian (May 2, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> The Shapton Pro 120 will laugh at the atoma as it pulls the diamonds out. Then ask for more. Not sure why that's said about the Sigma 240, it's soft enough to flatten easily.



I’m a little fed up with flattening the Sigma personally. Maybe my plates are just worn now, but it’s a little dished now and I haven’t used it in a few weeks because the last time I flattened it it was a huge pain.


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## M1k3 (May 2, 2021)

Mikeltee said:


> What do you do? Attach it to a 2x4 block and go to town on a dry stone?


I wrap it around a stone and use the stone holder to grip it in place. I use it wet.


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## M1k3 (May 2, 2021)

ian said:


> I’m a little fed up with flattening the Sigma personally. Maybe my plates are just worn now, but it’s a little dished now and I haven’t used it in a few weeks because the last time I flattened it it was a huge pain.


Sandpaper? Loose SiC?


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## ian (May 2, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Sandpaper? Loose SiC?



Never had any luck with sandpaper. I'll try SiC when we're in the new place, where I can set up a dedicated sharpening station. Too messy for the kitchen.

Or maybe I should buy a 4'' mini belt sander and use it for flattening these kinds of stones.


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