# My angle & pressure problem



## adam92 (Jan 10, 2020)

Can someone help identify my sharpen problem?

There's seems like one spot i don't know why i couldn't sharpen, I haved circle the spot my problem.

for the other spot, do i press too hard ? wrong angle ?


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## Benuser (Jan 10, 2020)

Check with a marker where you're actually abrading. A loupe (8-10x) may be very helpful. Start at the lowest possible angle. See if that area does touch the board. I suspect an overgrind.


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## ian (Jan 10, 2020)

Looks like an overgrind to me too. That is, the part of the knife behind the edge is more ground down in that part than on the rest of the knife, so that when you sharpen, your flat stone doesn’t contact that part. To fix it, you would have to use a coarse stone, lay your knife flat on the stone with finger pressure a little ways behind the edge, and take away metal till the scratch pattern is consistent along the length of the knife.

Curious: did you buy the knife direct, or from a retailer?


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## Midsummer (Jan 10, 2020)

What stones has it seen?


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## adam92 (Jan 10, 2020)

ian said:


> Looks like an overgrind to me too. That is, the part of the knife behind the edge is more ground down in that part than on the rest of the knife, so that when you sharpen, your flat stone doesn’t contact that part. To fix it, you would have to use a coarse stone, lay your knife flat on the stone with finger pressure a little ways behind the edge, and take away metal till the scratch pattern is consistent along the length of the knife.
> 
> Curious: did you buy the knife direct, or from a retailer?



I buy the knife directly, i fix on my shapton pro 320 for 15 minute but still look the same, maybe i need to do more on coarse stone.


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## DanielC (Jan 10, 2020)

The knife is probably not straight. A lot of direct buys come to you like snakes sometimes, or low spots galore.

I dont buy knives, generally, but I am friends with a lot of the polishers here, and it seems rather common.


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## adam92 (Jan 10, 2020)

Midsummer said:


> What stones has it seen?


Shapton pro320, suehiro cerax 1000, naniwa junpaku 8000 & the Jnat i don't know the name.


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## adam92 (Jan 10, 2020)

DanielC said:


> The knife is probably not straight. A lot of direct buys come to you like snakes sometimes, or low spots galore.
> 
> I dont buy knives, generally, but I am friends with a lot of the polishers here, and it seems rather common.



I'm pretty sure i sharpen with consistent angle but i don't know why the angle seems like waving/ snake.

Is my problem or the new knife of TF always like this ?

When i sharpen my other knife never happen like this .


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## DanielC (Jan 10, 2020)

adam92 said:


> I'm pretty sure i sharpen with consistent angle but i don't know why the angle seems like waving/ snake.
> 
> Is my problem or the new knife of TF always like this ?
> 
> When i sharpen my other knife never happen like this .



No, no. I mean, the knife itself is warped from what it looks like to me. Or someone mentioned overgrind. Look down the spine and edge from choil.


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## Midsummer (Jan 10, 2020)

I think I would take some very deep breaths and then send the Photos to your contact. I mean the man who you bought the knife from. I would send him these photos. I would ask him to tell me how to make this knife into a highly functioning tool. The kind of tool they have a reputation for producing.


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## Midsummer (Jan 10, 2020)

You may consider a video to show how you have approached this. I mean sharpening technique.


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## ian (Jan 10, 2020)

DanielC said:


> No, no. I mean, the knife itself is warped from what it looks like to me. Or someone mentioned overgrind. Look down the spine and edge from choil.



Oh. That’s interesting. Didn’t think about it being warped. I’ll be curious to hear if the edge is straight. 

I’m also confused, though. How would they have managed to put an edge on it at the shop if it was warped?

Really sorry to hear about your problem, though, @adam92. I hope it resolves ok.


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## DanielC (Jan 10, 2020)

ian said:


> Oh. That’s interesting. Didn’t think about it being warped. I’ll be curious to hear if the edge is straight.
> 
> I’m also confused, though. How would they have managed to put an edge on it at the shop if it was warped?
> 
> Really sorry to hear about your problem, though, @adam92. I hope it resolves ok.



I dont want to misspeak as I am not sure about the brand, but there have been many instances that I know of, of friends needing to deal with low spots, or waviness when buying various brands direct. Sanmai with soft jacket will bend and take a set, so this could have happened anywhere, including shipment.

I'm assuming the blade was sharpened on a relatively flat rock. When I see 2 points of contact like that, it means something is out of alignment, or that rock isnt as flat as it should be (which is never the case for me).


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## adam92 (Jan 10, 2020)

Midsummer said:


> I think I would take some very deep breaths and then send the Photos to your contact. I mean the man who you bought the knife from. I would send him these photos. I would ask him to tell me how to make this knife into a highly functioning tool. The kind of tool they have a reputation for producing.


I Would send the picture to seller & see what they reply to me.


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## adam92 (Jan 10, 2020)

DanielC said:


> I dont want to misspeak as I am not sure about the brand, but there have been many instances that I know of, of friends needing to deal with low spots, or waviness when buying various brands direct. Sanmai with soft jacket is bends and takes a set, so this could have happened anywhere, including shipment.
> 
> I'm assuming the blade was sharpened on a relatively flat rock. When I see 2 points of contact like that, it means something is out of alignment, or that rock isnt as flat as it should be (which is never the case for me).



I'm confirm my stone is super flat, If the knife overgrind, will it shorten the knife life ?


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## Midsummer (Jan 10, 2020)

He will want to know that you have flat stones and good technique. 

let us know what you find

Best of luck,


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## Midsummer (Jan 10, 2020)

I do not know if all over grinds are correctable.

I can not imagine fixing a over grind like yours without much time and steel loss.


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## Kippington (Jan 10, 2020)

The edge isn't straight. Look down the choil, then look above it and you'll see a curve along the edge.

You'll need to straighten it then regrind it a bit to fix. It looks like you've done quite a bit of grinding already which might need to be reversed a bit.


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## Midsummer (Jan 10, 2020)

I agree with the two that said not straight blade. Overgrind would not be shiny on the opposing side.


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## adam92 (Jan 10, 2020)

Kippington said:


> The edge isn't straight. Look down the choil, then look above it and you'll see a curve along the edge.
> 
> You'll need to straighten it then regrind it a bit to fix. It looks like you've done quite a bit of grinding already which might need to be reversed a bit.



Do i need to resharpen again or coarse stone to make it straight edge again ?

Or is still useable & can be fixing little by little everytime i sharp ?

I'm scaring losing too much steel & i assume this will took long time to fix.


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## adam92 (Jan 10, 2020)

ian said:


> Looks like an overgrind to me too. That is, the part of the knife behind the edge is more ground down in that part than on the rest of the knife, so that when you sharpen, your flat stone doesn’t contact that part. To fix it, you would have to use a coarse stone, lay your knife flat on the stone with finger pressure a little ways behind the edge, and take away metal till the scratch pattern is consistent along the length of the knife.
> 
> Curious: did you buy the knife direct, or from a retailer?



Sound like same as thinning job, Do i have to fix it now or maybe is better to fix until when i need to do the thinning job in the future? Might be better to save some steel ?


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## JBroida (Jan 10, 2020)

if you happen to be near LA, you are more than welcome to bring it in and we can look at it together to help you better understand what is going on and how you can fix it


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## adam92 (Jan 10, 2020)

JBroida said:


> if you happen to be near LA, you are more than welcome to bring it in and we can look at it together to help you better understand what is going on and how you can fix it


Hi Jon, I'm really appreciate for you kind, But Sadly I'm in the farthest country (New Zealand) .

If am in LA now i won't have those headache problem cause i know you can help me.


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## ian (Jan 10, 2020)

adam92 said:


> Sound like same as thinning job, Do i have to fix it now or maybe is better to fix until when i need to do the thinning job in the future? Might be better to save some steel ?



_If_ it’s an overgrind, I expect you’d correct it with thinning. But you should stop listening to me now that Kippington, DanielC and JBroida are paying attention. I don’t really know anything.

(I’ll be interested to hear if you can tell if the edge is straight, though.)


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## adam92 (Jan 10, 2020)

Kippington said:


> The edge isn't straight. Look down the choil, then look above it and you'll see a curve along the edge.
> 
> You'll need to straighten it then regrind it a bit to fix. It looks like you've done quite a bit of grinding already which might need to be reversed a bit.



How do i straighten the blade? I don't understand What's mean, Just now u use the ruler & i found out There's a small curve on the righ side blade, is that why my blade can't touch the stone ?


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## Codered (Jan 11, 2020)

adam92 said:


> I'm pretty sure i sharpen with consistent angle but i don't know why the angle seems like waving/ snake.
> 
> Is my problem or the new knife of TF always like this ?
> 
> When i sharpen my other knife never happen like this .



Don't want to upset the TF fans but if you check the postings about Teruyasu Fujiwara on KKF before the TF hype started in 2018, you will find out that most of the people complained about the inconsistency in the grind especially low spots in grinds. It is the main reason i stay away from these knives. I once tried to buy a TF Denka 240 and that's a 1000$ knife so not cheap, from a knife shop in Switzerland and the owner of the shop could not find me a single knife in his stock ( and he had many) without over grinds. He said that TF knive are "special in this regard"
I don't know why some people buy knives without checking the full history of the maker the pros and the cons.


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

Codered said:


> Don't want to upset the TF fans but if you check the postings about Teruyasu Fujiwara on KKF before the TF hype started in 2018, you will find out that most of the people complained about the inconsistency in the grind especially low spots in grinds. It is the main reason i stay away from these knives. I once tried to buy a TF Denka 240 and that's a 1000$ knife so not cheap, from a knife shop in Switzerland and the owner of the shop could not find me a single knife in his stock ( and he had many) without low spots. He said that TF knive are "special in this regard"
> I don't know why some people buy knives without checking the full history of the maker the pros and the cons.



I never tried white one steel before & i heard TF knife make good heating on White one, I do lots of research on KKF before i place the order, I can't afford DENKA so my only option is Maboroshi, I know the cons is grind inconsistent but i didn't expect so serious.

Anyway, Maybe time over time after i thinning the knife will solve the grinding problem?


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## toddnmd (Jan 11, 2020)

A bend is different from an over grind, and requires a different solution. A bend needs to be bent back straight. An easier solution (in skilled and experienced hands) than an over grind. And it doesn’t require removing a lot of metal to fix, as an over grind does.


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## J.C (Jan 11, 2020)

Have you tried using sharpie/marker to check? I used it every time to check low spots.
It also call tell you if your knife edge is straight or not.


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

J.C said:


> Have you tried using sharpie/marker to check? I used it every time to check low spots.


Just now i using sharpie & ruler to check & realise there low spot need long time to took away, Now I'm thinking should i use atoma 400 to do the job or order another Shapton pro 120 for the job.


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## J.C (Jan 11, 2020)

If the low spots are everywhere, you probably better just leave it as it is and reduce it every time you sharpen it, otherwise you will just shorten your new knife life even before you start to enjoy using it.
My TF also came with flaws. it has a couple of big low spots (if you see the pic that i posted in another thread) I just lucky that the edge is even and flat.


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

J.C said:


> If the low spots are everywhere, you probably better just leave it as it is and reduce it every time you sharpen it, otherwise you will just shorten your new knife life even before you start to enjoy using it.
> My TF also came with flaws. it has a couple of big low spots (if you see the pic that i posted in another thread) I just lucky that the edge is even and flat.



Good advice, i choose to to this way as well. reduce the low spot by every time i sharpen to extend my knife life.


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## M1k3 (Jan 11, 2020)

If the knife isn't straight, no amount of sharpening/thinning/reprofiling is going to fix the problem. And just cause other problems.


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## Codered (Jan 11, 2020)

Over grind is just as worse as a bad heat treat not sure why people overlook it. If the low spot is at the edge level, As you will be grinding over evenly from both sides won't you end up with a gap in the edge?
I think this was discussed here on KKF when people were complaining about Moritaka.


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## Codered (Jan 11, 2020)

Funny thing is Moritaka although they had a very good heat treat on their aogami super were completely disqualified by the KKF community for their over grind issues. But TF is highly praised although facing the same issues if not worse. I guess if influential members invest in one smith, everything can be overlooked and guys like Adam here can pay the price for this hyped publicity.


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

Codered said:


> Funny thing is Moritaka although they had a very good heat treat on their aogami super were completely disqualified by the KKF community for their over grind issues but TF is highly praised although facing the same issues if not worse. I guess if influential members invest in one smith, everything can be overlooked and guys like Adam here can pay the pice for this hyped publicity.


I think there's the charm for each knife, someone likefor the looks, someone looks for cutting, someone looks for F&F, everyone have different favourites option.

Anyway, after tried if not like it can be trades.


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)




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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

Actually i don't understand what mean edge not straight, when i put the marker pen there's some spot didn't touch the stone.

Is is low spot? when i look at the blade look straight , i don't know how to identify the edge is straight or not... hope someone can explain to me..


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

adam92 said:


> Actually i don't understand what mean edge not straight, when i put the marker pen there's some spot didn't touch the stone.
> 
> Is is low spot? when i look at the blade look straight , i don't know how to identify the edge is straight or not... hope someone can explain to me..


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## Kristoffer (Jan 11, 2020)

adam92 said:


> View attachment 68510



If you do the exact same thing on the other side of the blade, is there a hump where you are now seeing light shine through? I believe that would indicate what people have said about the blade not being straight, but rather bent like a snake.

From the top down view of the edge in your previous post it does look a little like its “snaking”, like railroad tracks.






Please excuse the borrowed internet picture.


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## Codered (Jan 11, 2020)

Look at the blade road. From this picture I can see an low spot in middle running all the way to the edge. You can't remove that by removing material. It will only make it worse. Send back the knife and ask for money back.


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

Codered said:


> Look at the blade road. From this picture I can see an low spot in middle running all the way to the edge. You can't remove that by removing material. It will only make it worse. Send back the knife and ask for money back.
> View attachment 68517


I don't understand where is it, Can you please point it out from my picture for understanding ?


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

Kristoffer said:


> If you do the exact same thing on the other side of the blade, is there a hump where you are now seeing light shine through? I believe that would indicate what people have said about the blade not being straight, but rather bent like a snake.
> 
> From the top down view of the edge in your previous post it does look a little like its “snaking”, like railroad tracks.
> 
> ...


My left side same spot don't have the light hump, but left side close to the heel have light when i use credit card to see the knife flat or not.

Left side close to tip also have light...

Is my knife dead now?


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## Kristoffer (Jan 11, 2020)

adam92 said:


> My left side same spot don't have the light hump, but left side close to the heel have light when i use credit card to see the knife flat or not.
> 
> Left side close to tip also have light...
> 
> Is my knife dead now?



Is the left side even and smooth in the spot that the right side shows light, or is it formed like a peak or a hill instead?


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## Codered (Jan 11, 2020)

adam92 said:


> I don't understand where is it, Can you please point it out from my picture for understanding ?


It might be just light but for me that looks like overgrind


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

Codered said:


> It might be just light but for me that looks like overgrind
> View attachment 68520


Yes that's the spot no matter how i sharpen, i can't get though it. 

I think that's is low spot...

Looks like my knife is dead now..


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

Kristoffer said:


> View attachment 68518
> 
> 
> Is the left side even and smooth in the spot that the right side shows light, or is it formed like a peak or a hill instead?


This is the opposite spot of my right side, when i use card i didn't see any light.

The card stay flat to the knife.


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

Kristoffer said:


> View attachment 68518
> 
> 
> Is the left side even and smooth in the spot that the right side shows light, or is it formed like a peak or a hill instead?


Whe


Codered said:


> It might be just light but for me that looks like overgrind
> View attachment 68520


Thank you Codered, now i understand that's the low spot, I'm really appreciate for teaching...


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

adam92 said:


> This is the opposite spot of my right side, when i use card i didn't see any light.
> 
> The card stay flat to the knife.
> View attachment 68521




Is this foams like a peaks? 

Sorry guys, for my limited english, most of time i need to google translate it... hope you guys can understand.


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## Kristoffer (Jan 11, 2020)

adam92 said:


> This is the opposite spot of my right side, when i use card i didn't see any light.
> 
> The card stay flat to the knife.
> View attachment 68521



I may very well be wrong in this, and hope that others will chime in, but to me it looks like the edge is weaving or snaking back and forth. In the location we’ve discussed there is a trough on the right hand side, and that you ground down most of the corresponding peak on the left hand side.


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## Codered (Jan 11, 2020)

adam92 said:


> This is the opposite spot of my right side, when i use card i didn't see any light.
> 
> The card stay flat to the knife.
> View attachment 68521


Looking at this picture it is obvious he has a lot of overgrind issues at the edge level. Just compare his picture with the examples from this thread about overgrind by Dave Martel https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/overgrind-into-the-edge.6159/
If the knife is also bent then the OP should return it at once. They should be ashamed for selling a knife in such poor condition.


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## ian (Jan 11, 2020)

Kristoffer said:


> I may very well be wrong in this, and hope that others will chime in, but to me it looks like the edge is weaving or snaking back and forth. In the location we’ve discussed there is a trough on the right hand side, and that you ground down most of the corresponding peak on the left hand side.



I’m inclined to agree with this. 

If I’m not mistaken, Adam is talking about not being able to hit the *edge* of the knife while sharpening. Is that correct? If so, it’s probably not an overgrind. (Or rather, maybe there’s an overgrind, but that’s probably not the real problem.) If the person grinding overground all the way to the edge, then the profile would likely be altered there, so that when you put the edge of the knife on a cutting board, you’d see a lot of light under that part. I’m assuming that’s not the case since Adam didn’t mention it. 

The edge not being straight would explain everything above. So, you’d have to bend it back somehow. I have no experience with doing this, other than with slight tip bends. 

Please correct me if you have more experience, though.


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## DanielC (Jan 11, 2020)

I'm a maker and in this situation assuming it is soft jacket sanmai, i would use my soft hammer and a slightly dished stump. Or straightening sticks.


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

ian said:


> I’m inclined to agree with this.
> 
> If I’m not mistaken, Adam is talking about not being able to hit the *edge* of the knife while sharpening. Is that correct? If so, it’s probably not an overgrind. (Or rather, maybe there’s an overgrind, but that’s probably not the real problem.) If the person grinding overground all the way to the edge, then the profile would likely be altered there, so that when you put the edge of the knife on a cutting board, you’d see a lot of light under that part. I’m assuming that’s not the case since Adam didn’t mention it.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm not able to hit the edge when i sharpening, particularly right side the part i maker it.

I've no issue when i put the blade on cutting board because i didn't see the light coming out.

I really don't know how to bent the knife, I'm afraid I'll break the knife.

I just contact the seller & let's see do he accepts the return & fix it..


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

DanielC said:


> I'm a maker and in this situation assuming it is soft jacket sanmai, i would use my soft hammer and a slightly dished stump. Or straightening sticks.



This is sanmai knife, but i, didn't have soft hammer & don't know how to do neither.

I'm so sad now.


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

Kristoffer said:


> I may very well be wrong in this, and hope that others will chime in, but to me it looks like the edge is weaving or snaking back and forth. In the location we’ve discussed there is a trough on the right hand side, and that you ground down most of the corresponding peak on the left hand side.



Yes, the edge just like waving, I'm checking every two strokes& try marker pen but i don't know why some spot became like this...


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

Codered said:


> Looking at this picture it is obvious he has a lot of overgrind issues at the edge level. Just compare his picture with the examples from this thread about overgrind by Dave Martel https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/overgrind-into-the-edge.6159/
> If the knife is also bent then the OP should return it at once. They should be ashamed for selling a knife in such poor condition.


Last night i talked to Dave & showed him the picture. He say looks like same issue as the knife he dealing before, now i gonna contact seller & asking for return/fixing ...


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## Midsummer (Jan 11, 2020)

Please let us know how things turn out.


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## Robert Lavacca (Jan 11, 2020)

This makes me nervous since I have a 180 mab on the way direct from TF. I wish you the best of luck man. I will say if you decide to take it to an atoma I would definitely go 400 or 600 over 140 just because the 140 scratches are a ***** to get out. For the price of these knives ( mab and denka ) this should not be happening. I’m all about the rustic look etc but the over grinds and bends are not cool man.

edit : thought I read the whole thread and saw all the photos. I didn’t. If i were you and it was me. I would contact gaku, show him every picture you have, and ask for a refund. Again, for the price of these knives , this is unacceptable.


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## ma_sha1 (Jan 11, 2020)

San Mai knife bend/warp easily, this is not just TF, over half of my name brand San Mai knifes were not perfectly straight, this includes TF, Kurosaki, Toyama, Yoshikane etc., although to different degrees. It’s not a big deal. Even Shig. will warp overtime & need correction eventually.

It’s easy to bend it back, you can do it by hand over the counter top, but more precisely, I prefer rubber mullet lightly hitting the high spot on the blade lay flat on a cutting board. It’s important to straighten the knife before sharpening & thinning. You might have to do it a few times as the internal force tend to want to bend it back after initial correction. 

look at your other San Mai knives, they are probably not perfectly straight either. 

Some blade warp, like my TF, the edge & spine bend towards opposite directions, in which case, you may not be able to cure both, it’s more important to keep the edge straight. This might have something to do with TF super high HRC, thus, more internal steel stress. It’s probably much easier to stay flat if it’s 60 HRC, but I love my TF the most even with all its flaws. It’s a project knife for sure, not for everyone.

if your knife is straight, all you need to do is to thin it, even out the high low spots


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## ian (Jan 11, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> San Mai knife bend/warp easily, this is not just TF, over half of my name brand San Mai knifes were not perfectly straight, this includes TF, Kurosaki, Toyama, Yoshikane etc., although to different degrees. It’s not a big deal.



What Adam is describing is a big deal to me.


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## Midsummer (Jan 11, 2020)

ian said:


> What Adam is describing is a big deal to me.



Certainly is a good reason to talk to the vendor. If there is work to be done, the dealer and his contacts should be most knowledgeable in who, when and where. It is a wonderful topic for discussion and perhaps a technique we may want to apply some time in our lives.


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

ian said:


> What Adam is describing is a big deal to me.


Is big deal to me also, i can't accept if i pay price & receive serious problem knife like this ...


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> San Mai knife bend/warp easily, this is not just TF, over half of my name brand San Mai knifes were not perfectly straight, this includes TF, Kurosaki, Toyama, Yoshikane etc., although to different degrees. It’s not a big deal. Even Shig. will warp overtime & need correction eventually.
> 
> It’s easy to bend it back, you can do it by hand over the counter top, but more precisely, I prefer rubber mullet lightly hitting the high spot on the blade lay flat on a cutting board. It’s important to straighten the knife before sharpening & thinning. You might have to do it a few times as the internal force tend to want to bend it back after initial correction.
> 
> ...


I haved 0% confident to bent the knife bacl since i have no experience at all, i haved contact Gaku & see, how's going on first, Do you have any video can teaching how to do it ?


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> San Mai knife bend/warp easily, this is not just TF, over half of my name brand San Mai knifes were not perfectly straight, this includes TF, Kurosaki, Toyama, Yoshikane etc., although to different degrees. It’s not a big deal. Even Shig. will warp overtime & need correction eventually.
> 
> It’s easy to bend it back, you can do it by hand over the counter top, but more precisely, I prefer rubber mullet lightly hitting the high spot on the blade lay flat on a cutting board. It’s important to straighten the knife before sharpening & thinning. You might have to do it a few times as the internal force tend to want to bend it back after initial correction.
> 
> ...


I haved 0% confident to bent the knife bacl since i have no experience at all, i haved contact Gaku & see, how's going on first, Do you have any video can teaching how to do it ?


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## adam92 (Jan 11, 2020)

In the video mark from CKTG showing how to bent the knife, do i just follow the instruction?


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## ma_sha1 (Jan 12, 2020)

That’s how I do it with obvious bends, to get it perfect, I use a rubber hammer against flat surface.


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## adam92 (Jan 12, 2020)

Today i put my knife to working task table, when i put it flat & press close to heel, the tip is lift up little bit, left & right have same problem, is this bent ?


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## Kristoffer (Jan 12, 2020)

adam92 said:


> View attachment 68628
> View attachment 68628
> View attachment 68629
> Today i put my knife to working task table, when i put it flat & press close to heel, the tip is lift up little bit, left & right have same problem, is this bent ?



Looks pretty bent to me... I hope all goes well with having the knife changed with TF. Good luck!


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## adam92 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kristoffer said:


> Looks pretty bent to me... I hope all goes well with having the knife changed with TF. Good luck!


I Don't know Gaku will exchange the knife to me or not...

Hopefully didn't get bad customer service from him...


When i order knife from Koki also had bad experience.. I send back my knife twice...LOL...


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## Dave Martell (Jan 13, 2020)

adam92 said:


> Last night i talked to Dave & showed him the picture. He say looks like same issue as the knife he dealing before, now i gonna contact seller & asking for return/fixing ...




Just to be clear, this is my response(s) to Adam's questions to myself in PMs on this subject...



> Hi Adam,
> It's obviously tough to tell in pictures what exactly is going on yet I think it's clear to see that there is at the least some issues you're dealing with. The knife does appear to have some heavy grind sections along it's bevel and while this is an eyesore, and something you'll likely want to deal with for aesthetics, it doesn't necessarily mean it's an overgrind problem. You can't really know if these low sections are full on problem overgrinds until you sand away so much metal along the bevel that you pop through to the other side and change the profile of the knife by making what we call a hole in the edge. There is one indication that you can be up against a big problem and that's if you see low spots on the bevel in the same sections on both sides as this almost always leads to a hole, at least a greater percentage of the time anyway.
> 
> I'm sorry that I can't help much more than this. Good luck to you!
> ...





> This is unfortunately a built in problem from this particular maker. Something that isn't realized by the customer until they take the knife to the stones. This problem is made worse by so many people talking this maker up like he is a God.
> 
> I wish I could say if your knife has a problem or not but you'll never know until you get to the point where it shows up or not.


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## adam92 (Jan 13, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> Just to be clear, this is my response(s) to Adam's questions to myself in PMs on this subject...


Hi Dave, Did i make something wrong?


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## Dave Martell (Jan 13, 2020)

adam92 said:


> Hi Dave, Did i make something wrong?



I just wanted to be clear about my stance on this subject.


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## adam92 (Jan 13, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> I just wanted to be clear about my stance on this subject.


I see, I thought i explain anything wrong as my english is not good, hope you don't mind.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jan 13, 2020)

After seeing all these threads regarding TF, I still want a denka...am I crazy?


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## ma_sha1 (Jan 13, 2020)

No, & you are not alone. I want a Denka too still, after using my MAb., & spend time thinning it twice & fixing some minor bends, it’s now my most fav. knife.

I have Kurosaki Fujin, Toyama, Youshikane, Mazaki, Shig, etc., but I always reach for my TF.

However, it’s a project knife, one needs to know how to fix bends, re-grind etc. to be able to really enjoy it. There’s something about TF, like a wild mustang rather than a well trained show horse, that makes it irresistible once tamed.


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## adam92 (Jan 14, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> No, & you are not alone. I want a Denka too still, after using my MAb., & spend time thinning it twice & fixing some minor bends, it’s now my most fav. knife.
> 
> I have Kurosaki Fujin, Toyama, Youshikane, Mazaki, Shig, etc., but I always reach for my TF.
> 
> However, it’s a project knife, one needs to know how to fix bends, re-grind etc. to be able to really enjoy it. There’s something about TF, like a wild mustang rather than a well trained show horse, that makes it irresistible once tamed.



I don't know how to fix problem like this as i never happened to my other gyuto... Maybe I'm not suitable for the knife, I don't know is it because of the grinding problem, my knife lose sharp edge very quickly?


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## adam92 (Jan 14, 2020)

Anyone have deal with Gaku before ?

I send him email but until now haven't get reply yet, before i purchase the knife usually he reply my within one days 。。


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## J.C (Jan 14, 2020)

adam92 said:


> my knife lose sharp edge very quickly



this is more likely either burr problem or your edge grind not balanced.
Have you tried to deburr after sharpening?
(My maboroshi still can cut through tomato no problem after 3weeks not seeing the stone, just lightly strop every couple days)


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## adam92 (Jan 14, 2020)

J.C said:


> this is more likely either burr problem or your edge grind not balanced.
> Have you tried to deburr after sharpening?
> (My maboroshi still can cut through tomato no problem after 3weeks not seeing the stone, just lightly strop every couple days)


I do the process exactly same as my other knives, de burr, strop...

If you look back the thread you'll realise my knife came with many problem. grinding, bent, low spots .... 

pretty upset.


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## J.C (Jan 14, 2020)

adam92 said:


> If you look back the thread you'll realise my knife came with many problem. grinding, bent, low spots


I can’t comment much about this. As i only did 1 purchase for the TF and i don’t have any problem except for the low spots ( which also occurs on some other big brands)
On the other hand, I can relate a bit with your frustration as i had ever been in the same situation when i purchased a “big brand” j-knife few years back. Everything was okay except it start to bend(warped) by itself and create like a (slight) curve in the middle of the knife. 
I contacted the maker, and he also replied me in a very cool manner, saying it is an easy fix, just need to press the blade flat on a surface and bent it back by lifting the handle to a desired angle. But as im a amateur in this thing, i prefer to send it back for him to fix. Long story short, i tried to fix it myself and it was not successful, the other option was to send it back for fixing and the delivery fee was outrageous ( return ) delivery will costs roughly more than 100$ and he does not want to accept refund even though the knife is still in “like new” condition because it has been a while since the purchase. So i need to swallow the pill and bear with it till today. Still looking for options to fix it


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## ian (Jan 14, 2020)

J.C said:


> Everything was okay except it start to bend(warped) by itself and create like a (slight) curve in the middle of the knife.
> I contacted the maker, and he also replied me in a very cool manner, saying it is an easy fix, just need to press the blade flat on a surface and bent it back by lifting the handle to a desired angle. But as im a amateur in this thing, i prefer to send it back for him to fix. Long story short, i tried to fix it myself and it was not successful, the other option was to send it back for fixing and the delivery fee was outrageous ( return ) delivery will costs roughly more than 100$ and he does not want to accept refund even though the knife is still in “like new” condition because it has been a while since the purchase.



I’m sorry that happened to you. It certainly sounds like it could have been frustrating. 

That said, from my point of view that sounds like a reasonable response from the maker. These sorts of bends can happen for a variety of reasons. Usually you can fix it by doing what the maker said, and knives don’t come with an extended warranty covering shipping. I used to get bends in my san mai knives from having a mag strip that was too powerful, and would fix them like that. To me, this story seems very different from Adam’s, where the problem with the knife seems more severe and was (more importantly) present upon purchase. 

That said, I’m sure I would have been annoyed in your situation, too.


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## J.C (Jan 14, 2020)

ian said:


> this story seems very different from Adam’s, where the problem with the knife seems more severe and was (more importantly) present upon purchase


I know, in my case, that experiences helped me to be what i am now. Since then, i have been more eager to learn the background of the maker and the feedback from the user before i made my purchases.
Different case with Adam92, he hasn’t got any reply from the maker which also can be frustrating, as the only possible communication with them is by email and they normally won’t reply promptly.


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## adam92 (Jan 14, 2020)

My knife shown many problem, i tried to ask the famous local Sharpener in New Zealand but even toishigram told me he was unable to fix it.

I've been sending email & website contact him but still didn't get any reply yet, if i didn't get satisfy answer i won't purchase any TF in my life anymore, I receive the knife less than a month & using less than 10 time, I look after every knife i got, only use warm water to clean, not suppose to bent like this fast, i own yoshihiro, jck carbonext, takamura R2 for several years but didn't happen anything like this. Only yoshihiro have grinding unbalance problem.

I'm so frustrated right now..


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## Dave Martell (Jan 14, 2020)

Just this past week I had a Denka _(I think that's what it's called....one of those hammered rusty looking ones with a girly sized finger groove)_ come in for a really bad edge damage repair. This one needed a re-profiling since the owner tried to correct the edge damage and altered the profile a bit.

I did everything possible I could to avoid touching the wide bevel, taking sooooooooooo much extra time in doing things than normal, but in the end I had to thin the edge after the re-profile because it was uneven in sections. So my worse fear was realized.

I used my belt grinder to grind the bevels down thin and that was pretty quick to do however I spent like 2 hours trying to make the bevels even along the length while not opening up the maker's overgrinds/edge laden hammer blows. With all my experience, soooo much extra time given, master level attention being supplied I still only managed to get it satisfactory looking and even.

Now had I needed to then take it to the stones, well I'm pretty sure it would have been another 4-6 hrs work to get it done. I'm just glad that I didn't have to go that route on this particular job.

These knives are VERY rough (even crude) in many ways and should be known to be this way so that new knifenuts can make informed decisions. It does no one but the maker/reseller any good to hype up a knife of this quality. This is the same exact situation as Moritaka.

I feel sorry for Adam.


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## Garm (Jan 14, 2020)

adam92 said:


> My knife shown many problem, i tried to ask the famous local Sharpener in New Zealand but even toishigram told me he was unable to fix it.
> 
> I've been sending email & website contact him but still didn't get any reply yet, if i didn't get satisfy answer i won't purchase any TF in my life anymore, I receive the knife less than a month & using less than 10 time, I look after every knife i got, only use warm water to clean, not suppose to bent like this fast, i own yoshihiro, jck carbonext, takamura R2 for several years but didn't happen anything like this. Only yoshihiro have grinding unbalance problem.
> 
> I'm so frustrated right now..



I can definitely feel your frustration. Similar things, though nowhere near as bad, have happened with a couple of knives I own.
In my opinion the problems with your knife are unacceptable, and aren't normal for any maker of Japanese knives. I'm sure Gaku/TF will offer to fix it once you hear back from him, or more likely send you a new knife. I certainly hope so at least.
Should they demand you pay for return shipping, then Paypal has some new policy of providing a limited number of free returns per year.
Good luck to you, and hopefully you'll get a knife that perfoms in all aspects like it's supposed to.


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## adam92 (Jan 14, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> Just this past week I had a Denka _(I think that's what it's called....one of those hammered rusty looking ones with a girly sized finger groove)_ come in for a really bad edge damage repair. This one needed a re-profiling since the owner tried to correct the edge damage and altered the profile a bit.
> 
> I did everything possible I could to avoid touching the wide bevel, taking sooooooooooo much extra time in doing things than normal, but in the end I had to thin the edge after the re-profile because it was uneven in sections. So my worse fear was realized.
> 
> ...



I would definitely not to recommend any TF knife to anyone anymore.. 

I thought I'll be lucky to get good TF without problem but i was wrong.

After 1st sharpen realise is garbage quality....

If they trying to searching for new knife, I hope they don't choose TF..


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## adam92 (Jan 14, 2020)

Garm said:


> I can definitely feel your frustration. Similar things, though nowhere near as bad, have happened with a couple of knives I own.
> In my opinion the problems with your knife are unacceptable, and aren't normal for any maker of Japanese knives. I'm sure Gaku/TF will offer to fix it once you hear back from him, or more likely send you a new knife. I certainly hope so at least.
> Should they demand you pay for return shipping, then Paypal has some new policy of providing a limited number of free returns per year.
> Good luck to you, and hopefully you'll get a knife that perfoms in all aspects like it's supposed to.


Hi Gam, Thank you very much for spiritual support, Let's hope Gaku will fix my problem. If can, i don't want new TF anymore, I just want to return the knife & request refund. 

I don't know if he sending me a new knife, would the knife come with problem again or not, is no point to waste time anymore, i better go with ikeda gyuto.


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## adam92 (Jan 15, 2020)

I got the reply from Gaku, can someone help me to explain what's exactly did he means?

For my understanding he said is not grinding problem ?


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## Benuser (Jan 15, 2020)

In my understanding, he says you caused it by poor sharpening, which is an audacious point of view.


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## adam92 (Jan 15, 2020)

Update

Even though i sending so many problem picture to Gaku, Only thing he said is should be cause by poor sharpening.

Can, repair for me but i have to pay the actual shipping fees to return the knife, I'm super disappoint with customer service like this.

I'm not saying my sharpening technique super good, but basically control angle & pressure i still know what I'm doing!

Won't believe TF brand anymore. paying high price to receive major problem like this knife is unacceptable.


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## madelinez (Jan 15, 2020)

Even though Dave has very strong opinions about Takeda knives (recent years and my favourite j-knife) and strong opinions about other knives that I like, he's not being unreasonable. A good TF is god-like, a bad TF is a very sad $1000 throw away.

Always trust the professional sharpener, especially when they're the one fixing your knife out of "the factory" based on a bad outcome. Dave deals with bad knives on a daily basis, I'll continue listening to him... maybe I'll keep rolling the dice as well but that's on me


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## adam92 (Jan 15, 2020)

madelinez said:


> Even though Dave has very strong opinions about Takeda knives (recent years and my favourite j-knife) and strong opinions about other knives that I like, he's not being unreasonable. A good TF is god-like, a bad TF is a very sad $1000 throw away.
> 
> Always trust the professional sharpener, especially when they're the one fixing your knife out of "the factory" based on a bad outcome. Dave deals with bad knives on a daily basis, I'll continue listening to him... maybe I'll keep rolling the dice as well but that's on me


I have to admit i brought a lemon.

This knife is my birthday present from my partner, She's Even more pissed off than i was..

I ask New Zealand Professional Sharpener but he said he couldn't fix my knife problem like this, maybe too complicated & not worth it to waste his time, i understand.


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## madelinez (Jan 15, 2020)

adam92 said:


> I have to admit i brought a lemon.
> 
> This knife is my birthday present from my partner, She's Even more pissed off than i was..
> 
> I ask New Zealand Professional Sharpener but he said he couldn't fix my knife problem like this, maybe too complicated & not worth it to waste his time, i understand.



I hope you don't think I'm blaming your choice. You were unlucky and it really sucks


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## Garner Harrison (Jan 15, 2020)

I don't know how other will view this advice but it may help you. If you've spent a large amount of money and you want it back you can contact Consumer protection agencies to put a complaint against the vendor as you have received a defective product and the vendor wont do anything. There are a ton of ways you can seek help. the ICPEN (International Consumer Protection and Enforcement Network) might be a good start into looking into how to get your money back. 

Bottom line is you received a defective product from what I see and if he wont fix it for you or replace it, you deserve your money back.


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## adam92 (Jan 15, 2020)

madelinez said:


> I hope you don't think I'm blaming your choice. You were unlucky and it really sucks


I know i were unlucky & sucks.

firstly i thought Gaku will accept to return the knife without asking me to pay shipping fees, but i was totally wrong. If the problem is cause by me, I'm more than happy to pay shipping fees to return the knife, but obviously new knife under one month, Only first sharpen & problem came out like this is not my fault, Annoying about what he is telling me.


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## madelinez (Jan 15, 2020)

Australia has very strong consumer protection laws. I've used them multiple times 

I would assume NZ is just as fair, but if Adam purchased outside of Australasia he'll need to rely on the business's goodwill.


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## adam92 (Jan 15, 2020)

Garner Harrison said:


> I don't know how other will view this advice but it may help you. If you've spent a large amount of money and you want it back you can contact Consumer protection agencies to put a complaint against the vendor as you have received a defective product and the vendor wont do anything. There are a ton of ways you can seek help. the ICPEN (International Consumer Protection and Enforcement Network) might be a good start into looking into how to get your money back.
> 
> Bottom line is you received a defective product from what I see and if he wont fix it for you or replace it, you deserve your money back.


Thank you for the information, is very useful to me, i would call them on friday when i finish work, I'm very appreciate for your help.


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## Garner Harrison (Jan 15, 2020)

Glad to help!  

https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/general-help/ways-to-buy-and-pay/online-shopping/ 

This should help even more!


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## Dave Martell (Jan 15, 2020)

Who is "Gaku"?


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## Nagakin (Jan 15, 2020)

I don't mean to derail or hijack, but since we're on the subject I was looking into a TF a month or two down the road and was wondering what your opinions are about buying one in-store from a shop like Epic Edge? 

My eyes aren't trained to see imperfections like that yet and I wouldn't know until my first time on the stones, but they're all great guys over there who wouldn't knowingly sell a defective product. I'm only worried if they miss something as well and one of us ends up taking a loss in the end.


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## adam92 (Jan 15, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> Who is "Gaku"?


The Seller from TF website.


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## adam92 (Jan 15, 2020)

Nagakin said:


> I don't mean to derail or hijack, but since we're on the subject I was looking into a TF a month or two down the road and was wondering what your opinions are about buying one in-store from a shop like Epic Edge?
> 
> My eyes aren't trained to see imperfections like that yet and I wouldn't know until my first time on the stones, but they're all great guys over there who wouldn't knowingly sell a defective product. I'm only worried if they miss something as well and one of us ends up taking a loss in the end.


I'm buying from TF official website, Gaku is they seller, Obviously some problem you won't know until you touch stone.. hope you don't get any lemon like me.


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## parbaked (Jan 15, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> Who is "Gaku"?


Gaku is the TF English speaking customer service or salesman. He answers English emails and often works at the Tokyo shop.


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## McMan (Jan 15, 2020)

adam92 said:


> I'm buying from TF official website, Gaku is they seller, Obviously some problem you won't know until you touch stone.. hope you don't get any lemon like me.


Bummer about your situation man. Worse about his response.
Anytime sharpening is involved, this opens up the possibility for the vendor to just say "Hey, but you didn't sharpen it properly. You're problem not ours."
However, anytime geometry is involved, they can't make that same argument. 
The knife is clearly bent. It seems fair to me to insist on a replacement, with shipping on their dime.

Did you send him this picture?


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## GeneH (Jan 15, 2020)

Maybe Nagakin can have his vendor run the entire bevel across the stones to prove the blade is flat, straight, no overgrinds. Pretty extreme, but at the apparent cost and problems with these, I would consider having it proofed before I lay down cash.


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## Dave Martell (Jan 15, 2020)

adam92 said:


> The Seller from TF website.





parbaked said:


> Gaku is the TF English speaking customer service or salesman. He answers English emails and often works at the Tokyo shop.




Thanks


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## adam92 (Jan 15, 2020)

McMan said:


> Bummer about your situation man. Worse about his response.
> Anytime sharpening is involved, this opens up the possibility for the vendor to just say "Hey, but you didn't sharpen it properly. You're problem not ours."
> However, anytime geometry is involved, they can't make that same argument.
> The knife is clearly bent. It seems fair to me to insist on a replacement, with shipping on their dime.
> ...


I did send him this picture, he say from his view that's because of my poor sharpening to cause problem.. What can i say!


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## McMan (Jan 15, 2020)

adam92 said:


> I did send him this picture, he say from his view that's because of my poor sharpening to cause problem.. What can i say!


Geez. You've got to be REALLY bad at sharpening to bend a knife


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## adam92 (Jan 15, 2020)

McMan said:


> Geez. You've got to be REALLY bad at sharpening to bend a knife


I suspect is this process didn't do well to cause the problem like this.


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## ojisan (Jan 16, 2020)

Did you get burr in the edge of the spot you pointed out? I see very very thin polished area at the very edge of the area.


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## adam92 (Jan 16, 2020)

ojisan said:


> Did you get burr in the edge of the spot you pointed out? I see very very thin polished area at the very edge if the area.


I can't raise the burr on that area, very difficult compare to other parts.


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## Midsummer (Jan 16, 2020)

if you created the low spot it would have come from your grinding material away from that area. That would mean that the low spot in the blade would be at the point of maximum grinding. We can see areas on your knife where there is excessive grinding. They are shiny.

If you show that the low area on the edge is the part that has the original finish and that the high areas on either side of the low spot are the place where the blade is polished or ground; then he can have no other explanation than a bent blade.


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## adam92 (Jan 16, 2020)




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## adam92 (Jan 16, 2020)

Midsummer said:


> if you created the low spot it would have come from your grinding material away from that area. That would mean that the low spot in the blade would be at the point of maximum grinding. We can see areas on your knife where there is excessive grinding. They are shiny.
> 
> If you show that the low area on the edge is the part that has the original finish and that the high areas on either side of the low spot are the place where the blade is polished or ground; then he can have no other explanation than a bent blade.


This is the picture when i first got the knife.

I haved report to Paypal to request refund now.


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## Garner Harrison (Jan 16, 2020)

I hope for the best for you!


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## adam92 (Jan 16, 2020)

Garner Harrison said:


> I hope for the best for you!


I send several email to Gaku but after i said i won't pay for shipping fees, he stop reply my email. 

Looks like i gonna do what i have to do for protect my rights.


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## ojisan (Jan 16, 2020)

adam92 said:


> I can't raise the burr on that area, very difficult compare to other parts.



If it's "difficult" and not impossible, that can be a low spot and would disappear eventually.
Both a low spot and bent make space between the blade and the card (and you see light). If it's bend, you most likely see light on the other side as well.


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## adam92 (Jan 16, 2020)

ojisan said:


> If it's "difficult" and not impossible, that can be a low spot and would disappear eventually.
> Both a low spot and bent make space between the blade and the card (and you see light). If it's bend, you most likely see light on the other side as well.



I only can raise the burr i sharpen about 20/30 degree.

On the other side i haved try to put the card, some part shown light some part didn't.

My friend from Taiwan which is rich experience in sharpening telling me the best way to solve the problem is sharpening with microbevel, and low spot would disappear eventually.

Suggest me to try hammer but in white one steel seems very dangerous, could break the knife so i stay away from this option for now.


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## ma_sha1 (Jan 16, 2020)

Rubber hammer is the way to go, I used it on my TF, it won’t break the knife.


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## adam92 (Jan 16, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> Rubber hammer is the way to go, I used it on my TF, it won’t break the knife.


Did you hammer the edge? 

Can show any image to give me the ideal ?


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## J.C (Jan 16, 2020)

What’s the point of hammering the knife if you want to return it?
In worse case, you might do it worse then it will not be possible for refund


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## adam92 (Jan 16, 2020)

J.C said:


> What’s the point of hammering the knife if you want to return it?
> In worse case, you might do it worse then it will not be possible for refund



I don't know will i return & get the refund or not, If they reject i might have to fix it by myself?


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## bruce8088 (Jan 16, 2020)

regarding the low spots, lay the knife lower and see where the holes are and how wide and deep they are, the choil shows there is potentially some meat in the geometry for you to grind down to even out the low spots. for the bent spine, you'll need to bend it back but fyi alot of knives have slightly waving spines but straight edges.

never buy a tf sight unseen. hand pick and you'll have a nice knife.


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## Robert Lavacca (Jan 16, 2020)

I got my 180 gyuto in the mail today. I have to say.. for the price this maker charges.. this is sad.. i’m glad i tested the waters and only bought a 180 mab. Im not seeing serious issues but only time will tell i’m guessing. I’m going to re examine before I do anything with it. Right now it looks like a serious noob put this thing on a 6-8k stone. The angle looks different with the top, middle, and heel of the blade. We’ll see but right now i’m thinking never again haha. 
I think the problem is gaku speaks well but not perfect english. I’m sure you did, but make sure he understands you had these problems way before you attempted sharpening. Either way, it doesn’t sound like these guys at TF are open to speaking about any of these issues let alone accepting them. For the price they charge they should be ashamed.


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## madelinez (Jan 16, 2020)

Makes you wonder, the TF's that are known to be good examples by multiple forum members that sell on BST probably deserve a price premium (thinking of the nice western conversion that sold a couple weeks back). It's frustrating people spend this kind of money and get lemons from the craftsmen directly.


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## ojisan (Jan 16, 2020)

adam92 said:


> I only can raise the burr i sharpen about 20/30 degree.
> 
> On the other side i haved try to put the card, some part shown light some part didn't.
> 
> ...



Do you get burr evenly around the spot on the other side?

If yes, that implies the edge line is straight.
If no, that implies only the “summit" contacts the stone and the edge line is not straight.
If it’s bent and you get even burr around the spot by sharpening with a constant angle, the edge line should have a lower spot.

If it’s bent and snaking, you cannot put a micro bevel on it. The other side of the peak never contacts the stone.
If you can raise burr with 30 degree anyway, that implies the edge line is straight.


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## adam92 (Jan 17, 2020)

Hi guys, Below i haved upload the picture after I've trying to fix the bent, straighten & sharpening.

However, I don't want TF anymore, I haved contact PayPal & they review my case.
I will return the knife & Get my refund.

Shipping fees on me, but i don't mind, Brought a lesson to known brand & customer service is worth it.


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## aboynamedsuita (Jan 19, 2020)

Sorry to hear your knife had issues. Mine cleaned up nicely


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## adam92 (Jan 28, 2020)

Update

I return the knife & got refund shipping fees from TF & refund from Paypal.

I'm lucky, these days really frustrated.


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## adam92 (Jan 29, 2020)

adam92 said:


> Update
> 
> I return the knife & got refund shipping fees from TF & refund from Paypal.
> 
> I'm lucky, these days really frustrated.


In here, i want to thanks everyone for helping me Identify with problem, sharing experience & appreciate for all solution, I'm really love this forum, since i join this forum gain a lot of knowledge which i can't learn from somewhere else.

Many thanks to this Forum.


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## Dave Martell (Jan 30, 2020)

I'm glad that it worked out for you Adam.


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## Gregmega (Jan 31, 2020)

Mystery solved. It was a TF. We all can sleep better now, a great ending.


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## inferno (Feb 1, 2020)

lot of work for this piss poor workmanship knives. i wonder why people get these at all?

i once got a hinoura 240 to flatten the bevel on. it was so flat from the factory i could have started it on a 6k stone. no ****.


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## adam92 (Feb 1, 2020)

inferno said:


> lot of work for this piss poor workmanship knives. i wonder why people get these at all?
> 
> i once got a hinoura 240 to flatten the bevel on. it was so flat from the factory i could have started it on a 6k stone. no ****.


After terrible experience with TF i won't suggest any of my friend to buy those knife, I heard from KOKI Hinoura is gorgeous brand.

I was considering Hinoura W2 before i pull on trigger with Kintaro AS, However i need edge retention, decide Kintaro at the end.


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