# Carrot wedge test



## CiderBear

Got bored last night so I thought I would cut up a medium carrot with to see how they wedge. I have a good selection of knives from different makers in different steels to play with. In order of appearance:

Mazaki (White 2) 210mm
Morihei Hisamoto (White 1) 210mm (TF)
Wat Pro (Blue 2) 240mm
Heiji (Swedish Carbon) 230mm
Tsubaya Tanaka (Blue 1) 210mm
Kochi (V2) 225mm - this is when I giggled because I've been thinning this knife for days
Heiji (Swedish Carbon) 180mm nakiri
Wat Special (White 2) 180mm nakiri

Now, ignoring my poor techniques (this is why I was wearing a cutting glove), I thought the knives performed alright. The best cutters were Wat gyuto (duh) and Heiji nakiri (pretty surprising).

I really want to find some larger carrots to do this again. It was fun. What else do you guys use as a wedging test?

EDIT: Here's another one with the Wats and Heijis on some sweet potatoes, in case the new post gets eaten up


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## panda

my custom wat pro i had is probably the best grind i've ever used. it's too bad i didnt care for the steel or it would have definitely been a keeper for me.

cutting carrots is only one ingredient, hehe. i need a heiji carbon 240 in my kit someday the steel is too freaking good not to own one.


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## labor of love

Wat and Toyama are perfect stock making gyutos. They move through carrots and celery without wedging or resistance.


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## Corradobrit1

Funny enough I was testing my TF 165 Nakiri (W#1 with soft iron cladding) on a slightly bigger carrot over the weekend. No cracking or wedging whatsoever. Totally impressed with the edge and grind.
btw I'd recommend a bigger board


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## Carl Kotte

Nice video! I just smiled when the wat went through. That’s how I want life to be. Smooth, without resistence and effortless! Both nakiris looked awesome too.
And yes, I tend to test on carrots. They’re hard but not too hard. Sweet potato, some types of pumpkin and Swedish turnip are generally too hard to reveal much (to me at least). Easily becomes false negatives


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## M1k3

I enjoyed. Thank you.

Try potatoes and your preferred thicker squash.


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## panda

i find cutting celery length wise is a better wedge test. most knives suck at this task


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## labor of love

panda said:


> i find cutting celery length wise is a better wedge test. most knives suck at this task


Celery tests are interesting. So many knives suck at good uniform celery cuts.


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## Barclid

Celery test depends heavily on the position of it on the board. If the curve goes up, the cut portions end up being pushed into the knife as if the knife were a keystone, which makes just about any knife wedge. If you flip it over, you'll have very little trouble.


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## childermass

Carl Kotte said:


> I just smiled when the wat went through.



Happened to me too [emoji4].

Thanks for the video, was a joy to watch.


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## labor of love

Barclid said:


> Celery test depends heavily on the position of it on the board. If the curve goes up, the cut portions end up being pushed into the knife as if the knife were a keystone, which makes just about any knife wedge. If you flip it over, you'll have very little trouble.


This is true. But I only cut curved side down. You can use things like ginga, tad, kochi or wakui whatever other thin knife that normally goes through dense food with ease. Watoyama just happens to do it almost as well with added food release.


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## vitreous

panda said:


> my custom wat pro i had is probably the best grind i've ever used. it's too bad i didnt care for the steel or it would have definitely been a keeper for me.
> 
> cutting carrots is only one ingredient, hehe. i need a heiji carbon 240 in my kit someday the steel is too freaking good not to own one.



I keep telling myself to order one, then decide not to wait 4 months.

4 months later I have the same thought....


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## rickbern

Sweet potatoes are good and you get to stay in the orange colored food range. 

or go crazy and find some purple sweet potatoes


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## CiderBear

Carl Kotte said:


> Nice video! I just smiled when the wat went through. That’s how I want life to be. Smooth, without resistence and effortless! Both nakiris looked awesome too.
> And yes, I tend to test on carrots. They’re hard but not too hard. Sweet potato, some types of pumpkin and Swedish turnip are generally too hard to reveal much (to me at least). Easily becomes false negatives





childermass said:


> Happened to me too [emoji4].
> 
> Thanks for the video, was a joy to watch.



Yeah, I don't use the Wat much since it's my longest knife, and I keep buying more stuff after I got it, but boy the knife does put a smile on my face. 



labor of love said:


> This is true. But I only cut curved side down. You can use things like ginga, tad, kochi or wakui whatever other thin knife that normally goes through dense food with ease. Watoyama just happens to do it almost as well with added food release.



Celery sounds interesting, but then I'll end up with a bunch of celery 



rickbern said:


> Sweet potatoes are good and you get to stay in the orange colored food range.
> 
> or go crazy and find some purple sweet potatoes



Whole Foods carries all kinds of crazy sweet potatoes, so this is an idea I'll explore!


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## Carl Kotte

@CiderBear I can take that wat off your hands for a shamefully low price any day of the week!


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## jacko9

Your Heiji Nakiri looks like my Wat Pro B#2 Nakiri and that knife falls through carrots.


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## labor of love

Congrats cider, you almost tricked me into thinking I need a heiji nakiri.


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## CiderBear

Carl Kotte said:


> @CiderBear I can take that wat off your hands for a shamefully low price any day of the week!


You can pry it from my cold dead hands


jacko9 said:


> Your Heiji Nakiri looks like my Wat Pro B#2 Nakiri and that knife falls through carrots.


Tbh I was really really surprised how well the Heiji nakiri cuts, given how thick and profound the wide bevel is.


labor of love said:


> Congrats cider, you almost tricked me into thinking I need a heiji nakiri.


You won't regret it. It's the furthest thing from a Wat Pro nakiri, and it's not a bad thing.
Also, since I know you too well: he won't make it officially longer than 180mm. Officially.


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## panda

It's because the Shinogi is tall, that's how I ordered my 210 gyuto


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## Xenif

Heiji Nakiri FTW !


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## CiderBear

Xenif said:


> Heiji Nakiri FTW !



Ahhh, now that I've owned most the gyutos I want to own for the foreseeable future, I want to shift to nakiris. 

Must. Resist.


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## M1k3

CiderBear said:


> Ahhh, now that I've owned most the gyutos I want to own for the foreseeable future, I want to shift to nakiris.
> 
> Must. Resist.



And Yanagi's, Usuba's, Honkatsu's, Honesuki's, Sujihiki's and Deba's......and and and....









And theeennnnnnn?


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## CiderBear

M1k3 said:


> And Yanagi's, Usuba's, Honkatsu's, Honesuki's, Sujihiki's and Deba's......and and and....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And theeennnnnnn?



Nah, nothing single bevel for me.


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## ian

Your "medium" carrots give my carrots girth envy. Nice video.


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## M1k3

CiderBear said:


> Nah, nothing single bevel for me.



So Petties, Paring, Nakiri's and Sujihiki's, got it


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## Nino-chan

CiderBear said:


> Got bored last night so I thought I would cut up a medium carrot with to see how they wedge. I have a good selection of knives from different makers in different steels to play with. In order of appearance:
> 
> Mazaki (White 2) 210mm
> Morihei Hisamoto (White 1) 210mm (TF)
> Wat Pro (Blue 2) 240mm
> Heiji (Swedish Carbon) 230mm
> Tsubaya Tanaka (Blue 1) 210mm
> Kochi (V2) 225mm - this is when I giggled because I've been thinning this knife for days
> Heiji (Swedish Carbon) 180mm nakiri
> Wat Special (White 2) 180mm nakiri
> 
> Now, ignoring my poor techniques (this is why I was wearing a cutting glove), I thought the knives performed alright. The best cutters were Wat gyuto (duh) and Heiji nakiri (pretty surprising).
> 
> I really want to find some larger carrots to do this again. It was fun. What else do you guys use as a wedging test?



yeah that nikiri did slice through the most smoothest.


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## adam92

CiderBear said:


> Got bored last night so I thought I would cut up a medium carrot with to see how they wedge. I have a good selection of knives from different makers in different steels to play with. In order of appearance:
> 
> Mazaki (White 2) 210mm
> Morihei Hisamoto (White 1) 210mm (TF)
> Wat Pro (Blue 2) 240mm
> Heiji (Swedish Carbon) 230mm
> Tsubaya Tanaka (Blue 1) 210mm
> Kochi (V2) 225mm - this is when I giggled because I've been thinning this knife for days
> Heiji (Swedish Carbon) 180mm nakiri
> Wat Special (White 2) 180mm nakiri
> 
> Now, ignoring my poor techniques (this is why I was wearing a cutting glove), I thought the knives performed alright. The best cutters were Wat gyuto (duh) and Heiji nakiri (pretty surprising).
> 
> I really want to find some larger carrots to do this again. It was fun. What else do you guys use as a wedging test?



You're the only women i see have so many knife, that's really cool.


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## CiderBear

adam92 said:


> You're the only women i see have so many knife, that's really cool.



Unfortunately for me, I never got to cross paths with @TheCaptain when she was active. I would've loved to be friends with her, and I'm sure she owns a lot more knives than I do.


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## Midsummer

CiderBear said:


> Unfortunately for me, I never got to cross paths with @TheCaptain when she was active. I would've loved to be friends with her, and I'm sure she owns a lot more knives than I do.



@Lucretia has a fabulous collection!!


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## Corradobrit1

Midsummer said:


> @Lucretia has a fabulous collection!!


Loved her profile pic


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## ian

Inspired by Ciderbear, I present another modest video of carrot slaughter. In order of appearance:

Mizuno KS
Modified 180 Wat (formerly kurouchi)
Mazaki 180 petty
Tanaka ginsan 150 petty
Munetoshi butcher knife


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## Johnny.B.Good

@CiderBear That carrot is almost bigger than your cutting board! Thank you for the video. 



Midsummer said:


> @Lucretia has a fabulous collection!!



I almost posted this, but when I went back to look at photos of her collection I found that most of the images are no longer viewable.

Super interesting person with a top-notch collection of Western customs.


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## Corradobrit1

ian said:


> Inspired by Ciderbear, I present another modest video of carrot slaughter. In order of appearance:
> 
> Mizuno KS
> Modified 180 Wat (formerly kurouchi)
> Mazaki 180 petty
> Tanaka ginsan 150 petty
> Munetoshi butcher knife



No fingers were harmed in the making of this video..... I hope


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## ian

I thought about making some fake blood and spraying it everywhere after the Munetoshi chop.

But then I realized that I am lazy and I really wanted to sit on the couch and drink bourbon instead.


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## milkbaby

The main takeaway that I got from that video is that you need a larger cutting board. That tiny cutting board... OMG. W. T. F.


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## CiderBear

milkbaby said:


> The main takeaway that I got from that video is that you need a larger cutting board. That tiny cutting board... OMG. W. T. F.



I do have one twice that size, but then I wouldn't have enough room on the counter for all those knives. Tiny apartment.


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## CiderBear

ian said:


> I thought about making some fake blood and spraying it everywhere after the Munetoshi chop.
> 
> But then I realized that I am lazy and I really wanted to sit on the couch and drink bourbon instead.



See this is why I wear my glove. You can see how crappy my techniques are - a couple times in this next video things would've ended badly without the glove 

Did some sweet potatoes with just the Wats and Heijis (2 nakiris and 2 gyutos) tonight. Look at how that Wat gyuto cuts a sweet potato in half, jfc. I feel like I'm just convincing myself that I need more Wats in my life making these vids

I'm actually hella surprised how well the ghetto Wat Special nakiri cuts - it almost feels like it's right on the border between good food release & no wedging.



I probably need to fix whatever I did to the Heiji gyuto though. The super thin edge was really brittle when I first got it, so I had to sharpen the microchips out. I wonder how I messed that up


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## panda

please push the food stuck on the blade away from you instead of pulling it towards you, that gave me anxiety. also, nice spin technique in start of the video, that was cool


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## CiderBear

panda said:


> please push the food stuck on the blade away from you instead of pulling it towards you, that gave me anxiety. also, nice spin technique in start of the video, that was cool



You're absolutely right panda. I'm terrible at this. Need to get much better


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## J.C

@CiderBear your video have successfully triggered my interests to try to do the same.
Waiting for my monster gyuto from the9nine before i start.


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## Michi

CiderBear said:


> What else do you guys use as a wedging test?


Pretty much the toughest test for wedging I know of is butternut squash and, even more challenging, Queensland Blue. If a knife doesn't wedge in that, it won't wedge in anything.



Except maybe really thick (> 2" or so) pancetta. That stuff has a tendency to stick itself to the sides of the blade something ferocious. But that isn't wedging, really—it's just friction.


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## Carl Kotte

ian said:


> Inspired by Ciderbear, I present another modest video of carrot slaughter. In order of appearance:
> 
> Mizuno KS
> Modified 180 Wat (formerly kurouchi)
> Mazaki 180 petty
> Tanaka ginsan 150 petty
> Munetoshi butcher knife




Moving cutting board, hard product and sharp knife. That’s how I lost half of my nail the other day. It was like watching jackass, only this time I got hurt and spilled blood everywhere.


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## Xenif

You guys need bigger carrots 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BraVsw1B0Tm/?igshid=1g2i4z4twmaoy


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## Michi

Carl Kotte said:


> Moving cutting board, hard product and sharp knife.


I use a piece of anti-slip mat under my cutting boards. No moisture required, so the boards don't warp. The mat won't stick to either bench top or the board. Available for a few dollars on eBay.

Cutting boards are held in place as firmly as if they were bolted onto the bench top.




PS: A little blood adds body and flavour. But remember to remove the bits of nail—they sort of spoil the experience when people bite on them.


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## ian

Carl Kotte said:


> Moving cutting board, hard product and sharp knife. That’s how I lost half of my nail the other day. It was like watching jackass, only this time I got hurt and spilled blood everywhere.





I’ve never cut myself because of a moving cutting board. Then again, I don’t usually split carrots with a Munetoshi butcher.

Lately, I’ve been exclusively cutting the knuckle on my left middle finger when I go up too high with the knife during a fast chop. It’s always a graze, so it stops bleeding quite fast, but I’m wondering if I’ll be getting some scar tissue because it’s always in the exact same spot.


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## stringer

ian said:


> Lately, I’ve been exclusively cutting the knuckle on my left middle finger when I go up too high with the knife during a fast chop. It’s always a graze, so it stops bleeding quite fast, but I’m wondering if I’ll be getting some scar tissue because it’s always in the exact same spot.



I do this several times per year. At this point my finger is all scar tissue right there.


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## kayman67

Michi said:


> I use a piece of anti-slip mat under my cutting boards. No moisture required, so the boards don't warp. The mat won't stick to either bench top or the board. Available for a few dollars on eBay.
> 
> Cutting boards are held in place as firmly as if they were bolted onto the bench top.
> View attachment 70733
> 
> PS: A little blood adds body and flavour. But remember to remove the bits of nail—they sort of spoil the experience when people bite on them.



I do the same.


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## Michi

kayman67 said:


> I do the same.


So you remove the bits of nail, too?

Nice! I'm glad to hear that people are becoming aware of this


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## kayman67

I got them from IKEA some years ago. They work great in drawers as well. 

On the cutting bit, I'm one of those guys that never cut themselves while actually using the knives for cutting, but I've cut myself lots by just moving a knife, for example.


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## Michi

kayman67 said:


> On the cutting bit, I'm one of those guys that never cut themselves while actually using the knives for cutting, but I've cut myself lots by just moving a knife, for example.


Same here. It's been years since I've cut myself while cutting something with a knife. But I end up collecting a nick every few weeks by carelessly reaching for something and brushing against a knife that's sitting on the bench, or by picking up a knife without looking, or catching the heel when wiping down a blade with a towel.

Come to think of it, I think my knives are out to get me. I should get rid of them.


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## Hz_zzzzzz

Very helpful videos! Thank you guys.


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## captaincaed

stringer said:


> I do this several times per year. At this point my finger is all scar tissue right there.
> 
> View attachment 70737


Left hand ring finger for me


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## ian

WTAF.... was that with a knife, or a belt sander?


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## stringer

captaincaed said:


> View attachment 70753
> 
> Left hand ring finger for me



Sometimes you can give yourself a little skin graft if you have the presence of mind to move quick, grab the chunk of flesh off of the cutting board and super glue it back on. You got too much nail for that though.


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## Carl Kotte

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8JdGOPnh-N/?igshid=ds24ermbazks


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## Kippington

_"We're serving finger food... Not fingers!"_ ~ some chef


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## Nikabrik

ian said:


> I’ve never cut myself because of a moving cutting board. Then again, I don’t usually split carrots with a Munetoshi butcher.
> 
> Lately, I’ve been exclusively cutting the knuckle on my left middle finger when I go up too high with the knife during a fast chop. It’s always a graze, so it stops bleeding quite fast, but I’m wondering if I’ll be getting some scar tissue because it’s always in the exact same spot.



Check out this tip from @cheflivengood https://www.instagram.com/tv/B0ijKIynHDu/?igshid=161r680huhbm3


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## Carl Kotte

View attachment 70754

Well, I serve finger foods


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## stringer

I caught one on camera a few months ago


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## Kippington

Nikabrik said:


> Check out this tip from @cheflivengood https://www.instagram.com/tv/B0ijKIynHDu/?igshid=161r680huhbm3


Huh... I definitely do this, but never noticed till you pointed it out.
I guess you get used to it after too many of these...

In case any of you wanted to know, the major difference between this and accidentally grinding a chunk out of your hand on a fast moving belt is that the the air around you suddenly smells and tastes of blood, which is really shocking when you get a nose and throat-full of it. It subtly adds another layer of regret to the experience.


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## Carl Kotte

Yeah, my technique is not impressive, but it didn’t have anything to do with the accident. I was cooking at my mom’s: her boards and gear (which is quite ok, though every knife is small) and my children trying to pull my pants while I was tackling some veggies.


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## ian

Carl Kotte said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/B8JdGOPnh-N/?igshid=ds24ermbazks
> View attachment 70755



That is a creepy photo if you misinterpret it.


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## Carl Kotte

ian said:


> That is a creepy photo if you misinterpret it.



Isn’t it creepy even if you don’t misinterpret it? There was blood splatter on my toddler, for sure... the left handed murderer.


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## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> Isn’t it creepy even if you don’t misinterpret it? There was blood splatter on my toddler, for sure... the left handed murderer.



So you beat them until correct-handed murderer?


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## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> So you beat them until correct-handed murderer?



Hmmm, no, I cut through (and off) my nails until I somewhat unexpectedly acquired the title ’murderer’. It doesn’t make much sense, but hey That’s life!


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## Carl Kotte

Damn, had to do a video myself. Note: it doesn’t reflect actual performance very well. The carrot was uneven [emoji16]
In order of appearance: Mazaki 250, Munetoshi 210, wakui 210, Dalman 250, Tojiro PRO 240, Kippington 180 (it’s so thin it stuck [emoji23]), Isasmedjan 225 (which can’t be seen in use).

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8PIxKNnIyb/?igshid=zi0nf3vbvdtk


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## OnionSlicer

This is one gory carrot thread.

The finger lift technique is interesting. I curl my middle finger more instead and use the second knuckle for blade contact when going fast.


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## Kippington

Carl Kotte said:


> Damn, had to do a video myself. Note: it doesn’t reflect actual performance very well. The carrot was uneven [emoji16]
> In order of appearance: Mazaki 250, Munetoshi 210, wakui 210, Dalman 250, Tojiro PRO 240, Kippington 180 (it’s so thin it stuck [emoji23]), Isasmedjan 225 (which can’t be seen in use).
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B8PIxKNnIyb/?igshid=zi0nf3vbvdtk



Aw man... mine had to be the last through the hardest part! 
It really shows the shinogi on both sides can get in the way during cuts like this, reminding me of that recent thread about disadvantages to wide bevels.


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## dsk

how did this turn into a gore thread. need some eye bleach. 

wedge tests are cool though .


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## Corradobrit1

Carl Kotte said:


> The carrot was uneven [emoji16]


Wonky fruit and veg? I thought the EU made those illegal......

Loving this thread. Lets see an Ashi Honyaki, Kato Dammy and all the other Unicorns do the same thing. And no TF Denka's? Mine cut through the carrot like hot knife through butter.


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## Carl Kotte

Kippington said:


> Aw man... mine had to be the last through the hardest part!
> It really shows the shinogi on both sides can get in the way during cuts like this, reminding me of that recent thread about disadvantages to wide bevels.



Haha, I know. You should have seen Isasmedjan [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] The thing is I did a video afterwards in reverse order of appearance: I meant to post it, but my wife appeared during the third cut (in her pjs) and started mocking me for making a video of carrots (That’s valid I suppose). That kind of ruined things. Well anyways, I guess you’re not surprised to hear that the little bunka did a lot better that time. [emoji16][emoji1305]


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## Barmoley

Corradobrit1 said:


> Wonky fruit and veg? I thought the EU made those illegal......
> 
> Loving this thread. Lets see an Ashi Honyaki, Kato Dammy and all the other Unicorns do the same thing. And no TF Denka's? Mine cut through the carrot like hot knife through butter.


Video or it didn't happen. Show us how well the Denka does


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## CiderBear

Barmoley said:


> Video or it didn't happen. Show us how well the Denka does



Oh snap!

(BTW I'm skipping all the gore posts)


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## Barclid

https://www.reddit.com/r/aww


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## Corradobrit1

Barclid said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/aww


?


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## Corradobrit1

Barmoley said:


> Video or it didn't happen. Show us how well the Denka does


I'll get right on it. Once I figured out how to upload vids. Have enough trouble with photos.


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## Robert Lavacca

They make a lot of the cooks where those cut gloves at a lot of the units I work in. They do a help a lot when you’re first starting out. Been there. I think the pinch grip callus can get pretty rough too eventually. I know mine is pretty nasty haha


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## captaincaed

stringer said:


> Sometimes you can give yourself a little skin graft if you have the presence of mind to move quick, grab the chunk of flesh off of the cutting board and super glue it back on. You got too much nail for that though.


It feels really weird when the skin comes back but the nail is still gone.... Thank you Mexican hot chocolate and a thick, dull knife. Curved under my curled fingers to bite me. Not my finest moment.


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## captaincaed

Nikabrik said:


> Check out this tip


Phrasing. Are we still doing phrasing?


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## M1k3

stringer said:


> I do this several times per year. At this point my finger is all scar tissue right there.
> 
> View attachment 70737



But do you have a sweet flat spot in the profile of your index finger?


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## dsk

Barclid said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/aww



/r/eyebleach also works.


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## Michi

Nikabrik said:


> Check out this tip from @cheflivengood https://www.instagram.com/tv/B0ijKIynHDu/?igshid=161r680huhbm3


Nice tip!

Interesting to see this thread turn into a B-grade horror movie


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## Michi

Carl Kotte said:


> Damn, had to do a video myself.


Can you add some more videos of you cutting yourself please? I really enjoy watching those…


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## stringer

Michi said:


> Can you add some more videos of you cutting yourself please? I really enjoy watching those…



I probably have other videos of me hurting myself, but alas I will not share them here. I have contributed enough to the off topic bloodiness. Probably not what @CiderBear intended when she just wanted to talk about carrot wedgies. I blame @ian.


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## Carl Kotte

Michi said:


> Can you add some more videos of you cutting yourself please? I really enjoy watching those…



I’ll add some on my youtube soon...


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## CiderBear

Question about cutting stuff, actually: ideally, how tall should your elbow be relative to the cutting surface? I'm about 158 cm tail, and I always feel like the standard counter height is a bit tall for me, then add 2-3 inch of cutting board on top of that...


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## M1k3

Forearms should be about parallel (plus or minus some) when the knife is flat on the cutting board.


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## Nikabrik

Probably depends partly on the handle angle though, right?


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## M1k3

Yes, handle angle and blade height matter. Realistically, just don't want to be in a T-Rex stance or a "The onions are burning my eyes" extended arm stance. And wrist(s) not in bad angles.


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## stringer

If you are standing with your arms down looking at your cutting board it should be somewhere beneath your elbows and above your waist. That's about as general as you can get. If your counters are too high then try using your kitchen table.


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## Nikabrik

This is interesting:
https://hal.inria.fr/hal-00762797/document (Cutting force and EMG recording for ergonomics
assessment of meat cutting tasks : influence of the
workbench height and the cutting direction on muscle
activation levels)


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## ian

Hmm. Would you be willing to read it and tell me what the point is?  A quick skim didn’t produce any info about optimal bench height. (Or maybe the point is: hey, different heights have this effect on muscle use, but we have no opinion on what’s good or bad.)


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## stringer

If you use a cutting board that's too high then you lose strength and control and get the T-Rex arms and you hunch your shoulders together. Bad position, bad posture, pain. If you're cutting board is too low then you have to lean your head forward to see what you are doing. This puts a lot of strain on your neck. Bad position, bad posture, pain.


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## Corradobrit1

stringer said:


> If you use a cutting board that's too high then you lose strength and control and get the T-Rex arms and you hunch your shoulders together. Bad position, bad posture, pain. If you're cutting board is too low then you have to lean your head forward to see what you are doing. This puts a lot of strain on your neck. Bad position, bad posture, pain.


And I thought I only had to worry about the occasional nick, or knuckle and finger tip shave.


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## ian

stringer said:


> If you use a cutting board that's too high then you lose strength and control and get the T-Rex arms and you hunch your shoulders together. Bad position, bad posture, pain. If you're cutting board is too low then you have to lean your head forward to see what you are doing. This puts a lot of strain on your neck. Bad position, bad posture, pain.



Indeed! But I don’t trust trial and error in finding my optimal surface height. I need an expert to tell me what it is. And I need bar graphs. Lots of bar graphs.


----------



## ian

More seriously, I think one of the reasons I only like low tip KS profiles on long knives is that my surface is kind of high at home. If the tip is too high, my elbow has to go to high up in the air when cutting with the tip. Ditto for blades where the edge has an extreme angle to the handle.


----------



## labor of love

Cider, that counter you cut on does seem rather close to you. Are you like 4 feet tall? Lol


----------



## Stx00lax

I’ll contribute. Two vids of the same knives. Once at a slow cut and the second one a little faster. The knives are..
Crappy wustof santoku 
Murata funayuki
Denka 240
Toyama (iron) 240


----------



## CiderBear

labor of love said:


> Cider, that counter you cut on does seem rather close to you. Are you like 4 feet tall? Lol



5'1"


----------



## panda

ian said:


> ... Then again, I don’t usually split carrots with a Munetoshi butcher...


LOLZ!!


----------



## panda

Kippington said:


> Huh... I definitely do this, but never noticed till you pointed it out.
> I guess you get used to it after too many of these...
> 
> In case any of you wanted to know, the major difference between this and accidentally grinding a chunk out of your hand on a fast moving belt is that the the air around you suddenly smells and tastes of blood, which is really shocking when you get a nose and throat-full of it. It subtly adds another layer of regret to the experience.



this gave me a good chuckle, there is absolutely zero reason to cut a tomato like that..


----------



## Kippington

I'm not a drummer, but it it can feel a lot like this when you get the right height board and a knife that suits you.











I personally tend to prefer slightly lower surfaces + knives that angle down. I do a lot of push cutting.


panda said:


> there is absolutely zero reason to cut a tomato like that..


Totally.
There are a lot of test cutting videos where I see the resulting food and think - _"What the hell dish are you going to use that for?" _


----------



## Kippington

stringer said:


> If your counters are too high then try using your kitchen table.


One time at my old work I got a short friend to stand on a dishwasher pallet to improve his posture. He still does it every so often!
One really tall co-worker stacked boards on top of each other...


----------



## ian

Obviously @stringer is making tomato sauce. Once in a while I will cut them like this if I want a quick light tomato sauce and don’t want to dirty a blender. It’s also an interesting texture because you still have the longer strands of tomato/skin in the finished product. Plus you get to cut more stuff.

(@stringer may also not be making tomato sauce.)


----------



## stringer

Kippington said:


> One time at my old work I got a short friend to stand on a dishwasher pallet to improve his posture. He still does it every so often!
> One really tall co-worker stacked boards on top of each other...



I'm about 6'1 (185cm). The garde manger kitchen at my hotel the tables hit me about mid thigh. One day we were plating 1000 salads or something. So assembly line style for a couple hours standing there adding a component to the plated salad and passing it down. I felt fine that day but the next day it triggered a massive Rhabdo episode in the muscle that runs over your shoulder blade into your neck. That sucked for months. I'll take a skinned knuckle any day.



ian said:


> Obviously @stringer is making tomato sauce. Once in a while I will cut them like this if I want a quick light tomato sauce and don’t want to dirty a blender. It’s also an interesting texture because you still have the longer strands of tomato/skin in the finished product. Plus you get to cut more stuff.
> 
> (@stringer may also not be making tomato sauce.)



That was @Kippington actually. And he was probably just testing the knife.


----------



## labor of love

You ever use those fold up tables for off site catering? They’re so low, like mid point between my knees and hips. My back gets super sore just being bent over and plating on those things.


----------



## ian

stringer said:


> I'm about 6'1 (185cm). The garde manger kitchen at my hotel the tables hit me about mid thigh. One day we were plating 1000 salads or something. So assembly line style for a couple hours standing there adding a component to the plated salad and passing it down. I felt fine that day but the next day it triggered a massive Rhabdo episode in the muscle that runs over your shoulder blade into your neck. That sucked for months. I'll take a skinned knuckle any day.
> 
> 
> 
> That was @Kippington actually. And he was probably just testing the knife.



Ah, thanks for the correction. Scrolling up is sometimes quite hard.

Still! Cutting tomatoes like that has a use!


----------



## Michi

ian said:


> Still! Cutting tomatoes like that has a use!


Indeed! In particular, it is most excellent for removing fingernails.


----------



## Kippington

stringer said:


> That was @Kippington actually. And he was probably just testing the knife.





ian said:


> Ah, thanks for the correction. Scrolling up is sometimes quite hard.


It was a saltydog video - an old forum member that contributed a lot to this place back in the day.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Saltydog55252/videos


----------



## ian

Kippington said:


> It was a saltydog video - an old forum member that contributed a lot to this place back in the day.
> https://www.youtube.com/user/Saltydog55252/videos



Thanks for the clarification of stringer’s correction to my assertion. Mo salty, mo bettah.


----------



## labor of love

ian said:


> Ah, thanks for the correction. Scrolling up is sometimes quite hard.
> 
> Still! Cutting tomatoes like that has a use!


Sliders?


----------



## Jville

Kippington said:


> It was a saltydog video - an old forum member that contributed a lot to this place back in the day.
> https://www.youtube.com/user/Saltydog55252/videos




How can that be topped? Micheal Jordan of knife videos


----------



## OnionSlicer

My contribution with the only high end knife I own 

The carrot is 1.5" on the thick side.


----------



## stringer

OnionSlicer said:


> My contribution with the only high end knife I own
> 
> The carrot is 1.5" on the thick side.




Yup. It's sharp


----------



## ian

OnionSlicer said:


> My contribution with the only high end knife I own
> 
> The carrot is 1.5" on the thick side.




No cracks! Nice, I approve.


----------



## Luftmensch

CiderBear said:


> See this is why I wear my glove. You can see how crappy my techniques are - a couple times in this next video things would've ended badly without the glove




I am _faaaaaaaar_ from the safest/most efficient/impressive cutter out there. Heck... I am only a home cook. Perhaps you are aware of the advice I am going to give. I don't mean to tell anyone how to suck eggs... so don't take me too seriously here 

There is no shame in using a glove! However, don't allow it to slow the development of your technique.

My observation - and it could be camera angling - is that your fingers (on your left hand) are at a shallow angle to the cutting board. This exposes the top of your fingers to your knife. Are you aware of the 'claw' grip for your left hand?



Effectively you make the angle between the cutting board and your fingers very steep. This way the face of the blade is guided by upper part of your fingers and the lower part is safely tucked away behind the upper contact point. This makes it near on impossible to cut yourself! This principle is the important one. You'll see variations on the claw grip - e.g.: tightness of finger tip bunching, location of contact point. This is not so important. The important part is that the lower part of your fingers are safely tucked away. Adjust the concept to suit your comfort and style.


For your first cut, you can cut a small flat on large vegetables to keep them from rolling around:



More control is more safety!


----------



## Luftmensch

Michi said:


> I use a piece of anti-slip mat under my cutting boards.



These are great. You are likely to be able to find long rolls at your local hardware store for very cheap as well - great for many things around the house.

A tip I learned was to put a damp kitchen towel under the board - also effective but it means more laundry.


----------



## Luftmensch

Kippington said:


> In case any of you wanted to know, the major difference between this and accidentally grinding a chunk out of your hand on a fast moving belt is that the the air around you suddenly smells and tastes of blood, which is really shocking when you get a nose and throat-full of it. It subtly adds another layer of regret to the experience.





@Kippington - I am REALLY not in a position to lecture anyone about OH&S/WHS.... I am more lax about it than I should be. As I get older I am getting better at protecting myself (I used to be so young and carefree ). My thought on reading this was... if you can smell or taste the air - you arent wearing a properly fitted respirator. For a person who makes a lot of great knives, please tell us you are protecting your health!

...Of course... I don't care so much about your health. But who else is going to make hook grinds?


----------



## Nagakin

Some of the photos/videos on page 2 make me wonder how I'll handle seeing my first major accident on the clock. I can always shrug off my own gruesome injuries but get so squeamish with others. 

Just from my current place I've heard the lead line had to more or less get a finger reattached after a bad moment during his divorce and even worse...the sous saw a lazy ass cook put a sheet tray over the deep fryer to clean the hood over it AND FELL IN.

Both instances sound like I'll pass out.


----------



## Kristoffer

OnionSlicer said:


> My contribution with the only high end knife I own
> 
> The carrot is 1.5" on the thick side.




Ooh, that’s nice! You didn’t boil the carrot beforehand did you


----------



## M1k3

Nagakin said:


> Some of the photos/videos on page 2 make me wonder how I'll handle seeing my first major accident on the clock. I can always shrug off my own gruesome injuries but get so squeamish with others.
> 
> Just from my current place I've heard the lead line had to more or less get a finger reattached after a bad moment during his divorce and even worse...the sous saw a lazy ass cook put a sheet tray over the deep fryer to clean the hood over it AND FELL IN.
> 
> Both instances sound like I'll pass out.



Yeah, watching your coworker get doused with a fryer is scary. Or another one spilling a pot of just came off the stove Marinara on their leg. There's the kind of funny ones though. Like refilling the fryer but not closing the valve..


----------



## J.C

M1k3 said:


> There's the kind of funny ones though. Like refilling the fryer but not closing the valve..



you mean this?


----------



## M1k3

J.C said:


> you mean this?



Exactly!


----------



## stringer

M1k3 said:


> Yeah, watching your coworker get doused with a fryer is scary. Or another one spilling a pot of just came off the stove Marinara on their leg. There's the kind of funny ones though. Like refilling the fryer but not closing the valve..



You guys are doing a poor job of discouraging me from telling off topic gory war stories in this thread. My personal worst started with a steam jacketed kettle and ended with some skin grafts. But at least I still have all my fingers and toes. Some I know in the industry have not been as lucky.


----------



## M1k3

New thread time?


----------



## Luftmensch

M1k3 said:


> New thread time?



I like meandering threads... but yeah... probably better to stick to the thread title.... Unless those horror stories involve... ahem... wedging carrots?....


----------



## lemeneid

Barmoley said:


> Video or it didn't happen. Show us how well the Denka does








That said, while the Denka may be a beast, the carrot king is still Watayanabe.


----------



## daveb

CiderBear said:


> Question about cutting stuff, actually: ideally, how tall should your elbow be relative to the cutting surface? I'm about 158 cm tail, and I always feel like the standard counter height is a bit tall for me, then add 2-3 inch of cutting board on top of that...





stringer said:


> If you use a cutting board that's too high then you lose strength and control and get the T-Rex arms and you hunch your shoulders together. Bad position, bad posture, pain. If you're cutting board is too low then you have to lean your head forward to see what you are doing. This puts a lot of strain on your neck. Bad position, bad posture, pain.



Bear - You can add some height by standing on a gel mat. A couple makers offer them as anti-fatigue. 

I can't use them or other kitchen mats because they raise me above a comfortable height but know a few shorties that do for the readons you cited.


----------



## CiderBear

Of course this was coming. Thanks @Barmoley for letting me do this.


In order of appearance:
220mm monster Wat special Blue 2 (look at the Show your newest knife buy thread for more info on this)
180mm Heiji carbon
180mm Wat special White 2






Haven't had much time with it, but the monster Wat felt like an entirely different knife than my 2 nakiris. I imagine if you like 270-300mm gyutos, you'd love this knife. For my 5'1" self , I could cut with it, but I don't think I ever really controlled it.

It didn't wedge as much as I expected, to be honest. I think the edge could benefit from a finer edge - I like my nakiris to fall through stuff with little resistance. Food release was great.

I'm a firm believer in ceteris paribus, so I really want to give all 3 knives a quick edge on the same stone (if barmoley allows it, of course), and do the whole experiment again. I think the Heiji gives the illusion of cutting better than the other 2 knives because of the incredible initial edge Heiji put on it. The White Wat has seen hours of work by me, so the more I cut with it the happier I am with my sharpening progress.

A couple side notes: I used a bigger board this time so ya'll can stop crying about it. Plus I totally bought this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VO65ZMM/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_ijHqEbZV3XP9W to stand on...


----------



## daveb

Didn't realize you were learning to potty train.......


----------



## CiderBear

daveb said:


> Didn't realize you were learning to potty train.......



Shush


----------



## esoo

Wish I had some carrots at home to do a video - the Kotetsu Bunka is a carrot machine.


----------



## labor of love

Giant wat looks good. Looks like Heiji glides through the cut really well w some minor sticking


----------



## CiderBear

labor of love said:


> Giant wat looks good. Looks like Heiji glides through the cut really well w some minor sticking



Yeah I think Watzilla would be crazy good with a jnat edge


----------



## panda

please buy better carrots if you can, i know the big ones are fun for videos but they taste horrible. carrots are the only vegetable i actually buy organic (and spinach).


----------



## CiderBear

panda said:


> please buy better carrots if you can, i know the big ones are fun for videos but they taste horrible. carrots are the only vegetable i actually buy organic (and spinach).



I normally just buy my grocery at WF (because it's the only accessible option without a car), but I thought those tiny little carrots would be no good for these vids. I go out of my way to find the monster carrots just for these videos, but point taken


----------



## Dhoff

panda said:


> please buy better carrots if you can, i know the big ones are fun for videos but they taste horrible. carrots are the only vegetable i actually buy organic (and spinach).


I love you Panda. You make my day with your frank and honest replies. I struggle every day to contain it myself xD


----------



## J.C

CiderBear said:


> 220mm monster Wat special Blue 2 (look at the Show your newest knife buy thread for more info on this)
> 180mm Heiji carbon
> 180mm Wat special White 2



@Xenif hey man, you have a rival here


----------



## Michi

To me, the sound during the cut gives it away. The louder, the less clean the cut. But that isn't so much a function of the sharpness of the edge, but a function of the thickness of the blade. If you want silent carrot cuts, find a really thin laser, and it will make little noise.

There is also the question of how much is necessary. Yes, the less wedging, the smoother the cut surface. But how often do I really notice? (I don't dispute that it can be noticed. Just questioning whether I do notice in practice and, if I did, whether a cleaner cut would noticeable improve a dish.)

I think there is definitely a point of diminishing returns (fun factor of a super-sharp and super-thin knife aside).


----------



## MrHiggins

Michi said:


> To me, the sound during the cut gives it away. The louder, the less clean the cut. But that isn't so much a function of the sharpness of the edge, but a function of the thickness of the blade. If you want silent carrot cuts, find a really thin laser, and it will make little noise.
> 
> There is also the question of how much is necessary. Yes, the less wedging, the smoother the cut surface. But how often do I really notice? (I don't dispute that it can be noticed. Just questioning whether I do notice in practice and, if I did, whether a cleaner cut would noticeable improve a dish.)
> 
> I think there is definitely a point of diminishing returns (fun factor of a super-sharp and super-thin knife aside).


Cutting technique matters a lot, too. I'd argue it's the most important factor in how loud the cuts sound (and, as a corollary, how smooth the cuts feel). I think you'll hear loud cracking even with a laser if you're doing a slow push cut through a big carrot.


----------



## OnionSlicer

Michi said:


> To me, the sound during the cut gives it away. The louder, the less clean the cut. But that isn't so much a function of the sharpness of the edge, but a function of the thickness of the blade. If you want silent carrot cuts, find a really thin laser, and it will make little noise.
> 
> *There is also the question of how much is necessary.* Yes, the less wedging, the smoother the cut surface. But how often do I really notice? (I don't dispute that it can be noticed. Just questioning whether I do notice in practice and, if I did, whether a cleaner cut would noticeable improve a dish.)
> 
> I think there is definitely a point of diminishing returns (fun factor of a super-sharp and super-thin knife aside).



I feel like that question is the antithesis of KKF's reason for existence. Maybe that's because I was just catching up on the new knife thread though


----------



## CiderBear

OnionSlicer said:


> I feel like that question is the antithesis of KKF's reason for existence. Maybe that's because I was just catching up on the new knife thread though


Can't please everyone. As for myself, I would have appreciated these videos when I was starting out last June when I tried to decide what to buy and what not. There are a lot of things these videos can tell that simple descriptions, measurements and choil shots can't. And things like my terrible techniques _do stay constant _no matter what knife I use, so ceteris paribus, you should be able to tell how the knives perform regardless of techniques.

But yeah, maybe no more videos


----------



## MrHiggins

CiderBear said:


> Can't please everyone. As for myself, I would have appreciated these videos when I was starting out last June when I tried to decide what to buy and what not. There are a lot of things these videos can tell that simple descriptions, measurements and choil shots can't. And things like my terrible techniques _do stay constant _no matter what knife I use, so ceteris paribus, you should be able to tell how the knives perform regardless of techniques.
> 
> But yeah, maybe no more videos


Cider, those videos are great! I agree that they tell a lot that paper stats can't. Don't be discouraged. I wasn't trying to comment about anyone's cutting technique, but rather say that technique is an important component to how well a knife cuts. I personally love seeing this videos, so I say keep 'em coming!


----------



## Dhoff

Keep the videos coming mate, its great fun. And i really like the way it shows performance


----------



## M1k3

@CiderBear keep with the videos! They are informative.


----------



## Barmoley

CiderBear said:


> I normally just buy my grocery at WF (because it's the only accessible option without a car), but I thought those tiny little carrots would be no good for these vids. I go out of my way to find the monster carrots just for these videos, but point taken


Totally agree. What would be the point of cutting tiny, well tasting carrots other than eating them. Who wants to see that? Now, slaying alien, mutant carrots with Watazilla and others, that is entertaining. Don't let these naysayers bring you down, this has been the most entertaining series of videos in a while.


----------



## Nagakin

Michi said:


> There is also the question of how much is necessary. Yes, the less wedging, the smoother the cut surface. But how often do I really notice? (I don't dispute that it can be noticed. Just questioning whether I do notice in practice and, if I did, whether a cleaner cut would noticeable improve a dish.)
> 
> I think there is definitely a point of diminishing returns (fun factor of a super-sharp and super-thin knife aside).


It just depends what you do. I work at a volume restaurant and we prep en masse constantly, but there's always the random dead week where you have a stocked line and every speed rack stacked with full hotels of vegetables. That's when you notice everyone else's stuff turning brown and soft but yours looks like it was cut yesterday. 

I'd rather spend a few minutes keeping my tools "unnecessarily" sharp (as the coworkers I no longer sharpen for call it...) than have all of that waste and hours of extra work, taste aside. 

I enjoy these videos because fun-factor just makes me care about my work more. After a trade or sale for something new, I actually want to go in and see how well I can do my job versus how quickly. Had no interest in a Wat beforehand but now...

If I could find mutant carrots I'd contribute.


----------



## Michi

CiderBear said:


> But yeah, maybe no more videos


It wasn't my intention to rain on the party. I enjoyed watching the videos, and I find it interesting to see what different knives do. Please accept my apologies, I didn't mean to discourage you!



Nagakin said:


> That's when you notice everyone else's stuff turning brown and soft but yours looks like it was cut yesterday.


Ah, yes, there is that, I didn't think of that. This snippet from Murray Carter's video illustrates this (starts at 2:44:57):


----------



## Garm

CiderBear said:


> Can't please everyone. As for myself, I would have appreciated these videos when I was starting out last June when I tried to decide what to buy and what not. There are a lot of things these videos can tell that simple descriptions, measurements and choil shots can't. And things like my terrible techniques _do stay constant _no matter what knife I use, so ceteris paribus, you should be able to tell how the knives perform regardless of techniques.
> 
> But yeah, maybe no more videos



I find videos like yours very helpful and interesting(yes I know I'm a knife geek...)
Nearly every video on YT featuring a Japanese kitchen knife is either someone cutting a piece of paper, or doing the horizontal tomato cut test. These tell me next to nothing about a knife, and if I never see another one again it won't be soon enough.

Keep'em coming CiderBear!


----------



## esoo

Kotetsu R2 180 Bunka. Doesn't really wedge, but food release sucks and you can see I have issues with it.



And just for fun, I did that last half with my 150 TF Nashiji Petty. Even though a smaller blade, it was easier to work with due to the release.



@CiderBear Keep making videos - they show much more than simple words will ever say.


----------



## panda

CiderBear said:


> Can't please everyone. As for myself, I would have appreciated these videos when I was starting out last June when I tried to decide what to buy and what not. There are a lot of things these videos can tell that simple descriptions, measurements and choil shots can't. And things like my terrible techniques _do stay constant _no matter what knife I use, so ceteris paribus, you should be able to tell how the knives perform regardless of techniques.
> 
> But yeah, maybe no more videos


here is some insight i can pass along: i have learned absolutely nothing from reading anything here or watching a video (it's just research to help you reach a starting point). what i do learn is from using stuff.


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> here is some insight i can pass along: i have learned absolutely nothing from reading anything here or watching a video (it's just research to help you reach a starting point). what i do learn is from using stuff.



And if you don't have the money to try everything you want to?


----------



## labor of love

M1k3 said:


> And if you don't have the money to try everything you want to?


Fake it until you make it


----------



## Barmoley

panda said:


> here is some insight i can pass along: i have learned absolutely nothing from reading anything here or watching a video (it's just research to help you reach a starting point). what i do learn is from using stuff.


Ah, the Great one has spoken. Shut down the forums, close the universities. Nothing can be learned from reading and watching, only personal experience matters. Done, no point in any of it


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> Fake it until you make it



That... or watch comparison videos? Or both!


----------



## Dhoff

Michi said:


> It wasn't my intention to rain on the party. I enjoyed watching the videos, and I find it interesting to see what different knives do. Please accept my apologies, I didn't mean to discourage you!
> 
> 
> Ah, yes, there is that, I didn't think of that. This snippet from Murray Carter's video illustrates this (starts at 2:44:57):



You did not rain on anything Michi , think all this is the classic case of "The written media is fricking dangerous cause misunderstandings can occur"


----------



## labor of love

Pretty bizarre to see so much ego stroking on a very simple thread about cutting carrots.

Not surprised at all that more people don’t share cutting videos with all this Monday morning quarterbacking going on.


----------



## panda

guess that came out wrong. i should have put the part i was responding to in BOLD _C*an't please everyone
*_
was supposed to be words of encouragement not to take everyone so seriously. in similar vain to 'dont take all choil shots as gospel of how a grind really is'

i am glad you made this thread and shared the video cider. how about a celery battle for the next vid?


----------



## panda

Garm said:


> I find videos like yours very helpful and interesting(yes I know I'm a knife geek...)
> Nearly every video on YT featuring a Japanese kitchen knife is either someone cutting a piece of paper, or doing the horizontal tomato cut test. These tell me next to nothing about a knife, and if I never see another one again it won't be soon enough.
> 
> Keep'em coming CiderBear!


x2


----------



## Carl Kotte

In the next episode, I’ll take my old European stainless knives out for a slow gory wedgy carrot/celery show. [emoji12] Stay tuned and keep eye bleach close!


----------



## XooMG

I did some random "test" cutting videos some years back but received a lot of negative feedback, so I stopped. They didn't serve much of a purpose and people seemed to think I was using them to falsely claim some kind of authority.

However, I still do appreciate when folks share cutting videos and especially comparison ones, even if they are not definitive.


----------



## Michi

XooMG said:


> I still do appreciate when folks share cutting videos and especially comparison ones, even if they are not definitive.


Wow! Either that was a seriously tired carrot (just kidding!), or those knives cut like the devil. Almost completely silent. I'm impressed!


----------



## Dhoff

XooMG said:


> I did some random "test" cutting videos some years back but received a lot of negative feedback, so I stopped. They didn't serve much of a purpose and people seemed to think I was using them to falsely claim some kind of authority.
> 
> However, I still do appreciate when folks share cutting videos and especially comparison ones, even if they are not definitive.




What knives did you use?


----------



## Michi

panda said:


> what i do learn is from using stuff.


To me, that's a "yes and no".

"Yes" because there is no substitute for personal experience.

"No" because, over the years, I have avoided many traps and expensive mistakes by first listening to someone who knew better than me.

Just as there is no substitute for personal experience, there is no substitute for prior art.


----------



## XooMG

Dhoff said:


> What knives did you use?


In that video, it was a Taiwanese mini slicing cleaver, and the second was a Zakuri Tosa style knife. Both knives have seen a lot of modification and are very thin.


Michi said:


> Wow! Either that was a seriously tired carrot (just kidding!), or those knives cut like the devil. Almost completely silent. I'm impressed!


Thanks. It's a combination of a cooperative carrot with a little more water content and very thin knives. Before that video, I had another with a dry carrot with lots of internal stress and even the thin slicer made light cracking noises because the carrot was breaking itself apart. The noise can be a little misleading at times.

The tosa knife is a bit thicker but I didn't use it on the large carrot section, where it may have been a little less quiet. Maybe I flattered it a little too much, but when the camera was on and I hadn't planned out the cuts, it was just an accidental omission.


----------



## Michi

XooMG said:


> but when the camera was on and I hadn't planned out the cuts, it was just an accidental omission.


Thank you for explaining and elaborating!

Personally, I don't care what you caught on camera and what you didn't. Those are damn sharp knives regardless!


----------



## Xenif

I found some carrots for this thread, 59 cents CAD a lb is a decent price


----------



## CiderBear

Xenif said:


> I found some carrots for this thread, 59 cents CAD a lb is a decent priceView attachment 71365



Don't you have a rack full of nakiris?


----------



## Barmoley

Xenif said:


> I found some carrots for this thread, 59 cents CAD a lb is a decent priceView attachment 71365


Now we are getting somewhere, a proper carrot.


----------



## CiderBear

@Xenif and I are officially anime rivals


----------



## Dhoff

This is how to really use carrots to make food:


----------



## childermass

Dhoff said:


> This is how to really use carrots to make food:



This kind of adds to the gore factor of this thread


----------



## Barmoley

From the same people that brought you "water is wet" another in the series "knives cut"

HSC III z-wear.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Barmoley said:


> From the same people that brought you "water is wet" another in the series "knives cut"
> 
> HSC III z-wear.
> ]



Nice! What do you cut in the first video? Potato or chicken? I couldn’t tell.


----------



## Barmoley

Yesterday's roasted potatoes, reused for omelette this morning. They were cooked so soft already, the knife did very well, better than I expected.


----------



## jacko9

Just finished putting the beef stew in the slow cooker and while I didn't have time to video the cutting (I really don't have a holder for my iPhone yet) the carrot cutting with my Konosuke Fujiyama B#2 210mm Gyuto was excellent. This Fuji is several years old and has the high bevel sharpened by Morihiro (I think). I cut four carrots that were pretty large and I had no wedging what so ever and I once again realize why I keep reaching for that knife more often than others. If and when I can find a holder to do the video I will do the comparison cutting with my other knives as the OP in this thread shared with all of us.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

jacko9 said:


> Just finished putting the beef stew in the slow cooker and while I didn't have time to video the cutting (I really don't have a holder for my iPhone yet) the carrot cutting with my Konosuke Fujiyama B#2 210mm Gyuto was excellent. This Fuji is several years old and has the high bevel sharpened by Morihiro (I think). I cut four carrots that were pretty large and I had no wedging what so ever and I once again realize why I keep reaching for that knife more often than others. If and when I can find a holder to do the video I will do the comparison cutting with my other knives as the OP in this thread shared with all of us.


I tried a few knives with carrots last night as well and the winner is also a Kono Fuji, although it is a 2019 made white 1 240 which was surely ground differently than yours. It cuts a little bit better than my newly arrived Wat 240 SS, especially when I’m using the tip or heel part of the edge (the middle parts feel similarly). The food release is better on the Wat though. 

Surprisingly, my Tanaka damascus blue 1 240 from JNS didn’t win the test although it is thinner behind the edge than both the Kono and Wat. The food release issue made it feel less smooth during the cutting motion. Another surprise is the Munetoshi KU 240. Really good carrot-cutter for the price.


----------



## jacko9

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I tried a few knives with carrots last night as well and the winner is also a Kono Fuji, although it is a 2019 made white 1 240 which was surely ground differently than yours. It cuts a little bit better than my newly arrived Wat 240 SS, especially when I’m using the tip or heel part of the edge (the middle parts feel similarly). The food release is better on the Wat though.
> 
> Surprisingly, my Tanaka damascus blue 1 240 from JNS didn’t win the test although it is thinner behind the edge than both the Kono and Wat. The food release issue made it feel less smooth during the cutting motion. Another surprise is the Munetoshi KU 240. Really good carrot-cutter for the price.



The other knife I didn't try but I should have is my Kono Fuji 240mm B#2 FT Gyuto. It's not the high bevel of my other Fuji's but it does cut great. I wanted to try my Wat Pro 180mm B#2 Nakiri that is the replacement for the one I gave my granddaughter for Christmas (I was going to give her the new one but I didn't get it until a week after and she hasn't visited since because my wife and I were both sick with a nasty virus). I'll include that one and my new Shigefusa Santuko 180mm KU in the test.


----------



## Alwayzbakin

Well, my carrots aren’t as girthy as in Cider’s video; they’re all too uniform in the supermarkets here. But they’re quite moist and crisp enough to talk a little.
1. Kono FM B2 210 (very minor thinning done just behind edge)
2.my first knife, shun pro, (heavily thinned after 15 years with a bit more thinning still to be done)
3. Takeda bunka 170mm
4. Kono HD 240 (sharpened a few times and I reckon in need of a minor thinning behind the edge)
5. Plastic ferrule unknown thrift store find, thinned through major refinishing and a bit on stones)
6. Yaxell super gou santoku (a thoughtful but misguided gift from the boss; used as work beater and sharpened frequently, needs a good thinning) 
Obviously only a few of these knives would be of any interest to only some here, the rest were used to give a bit of reference. I think given their bad rep for wedging the Takeda did alright. I would have hoped for even quieter cuts from the konos, but I think I spend too much time with them on the stones just for kicks. Im off to find some bigger carrots; or perhaps I’ll try again with sweet potatoes and some hard apples later


----------



## Michi

What's the knife at 1:44? That's by far the quietest of the lot of them.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I tried a few knives with carrots last night as well and the winner is also a Kono Fuji, although it is a 2019 made white 1 240 which was surely ground differently than yours. It cuts a little bit better than my newly arrived Wat 240 SS, especially when I’m using the tip or heel part of the edge (the middle parts feel similarly). The food release is better on the Wat though.
> 
> Surprisingly, my Tanaka damascus blue 1 240 from JNS didn’t win the test although it is thinner behind the edge than both the Kono and Wat. The food release issue made it feel less smooth during the cutting motion. Another surprise is the Munetoshi KU 240. Really good carrot-cutter for the price.



In my test I think my Munetoshi KU 210 did best overall.


----------



## Alwayzbakin

Michi said:


> What's the knife at 1:44? That's by far the quietest of the lot of them.


That was picking up the Kono FM again. He made enough noise cutting the bigger pieces but as with all tests so far was much quieter once the pieces were less than a couple inches


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Carl Kotte said:


> In my test I think my Munetoshi KU 210 did best overall.


Yea...I knew my Munetoshi was good but never compared it directly with my other knives until this test. When cutting carrots, it feels almost as good as my Wat and noticeably better than my Shibata AS, although the Shibata still cuts potatoes more smoothly.


----------



## Garm

Carl Kotte said:


> In my test I think my Munetoshi KU 210 did best overall.



I must have gotten one of the worst Munetoshi 210s ever made in this context


----------



## Etilah

panda said:


> here is some insight i can pass along: ... what i do learn is from using stuff.



What the panda bear is _saying_, the cider bear is _doing_. Our two animal friends are in harmony, yes?


----------



## panda

Etilah said:


> What the panda bear is _saying_, the cider bear is _doing_. Our two animal friends are in harmony, yes?


haha best comment of the thread


----------



## Barclid

Currently thinning a "the James" Honyaki. Current progress in video here after taking about 40g off throughout.


----------



## Carl Kotte

@Barclid Wow, that looks splendid! Well done! 40g off? What did the knife look like to begin with?


----------



## Barclid

Carl Kotte said:


> @Barclid Wow, that looks splendid! Well done! 40g off? What did the knife look like to begin with?



Profile identical. Just really thick throughout with a chunky right-handed convex and thick behind the edge. Should have taken a cutting video prior -- it really wasn't pretty.


----------



## ian

Oh, so the 40g wasn’t from when you took the handle off? 

Those are some nice cuts.


----------



## Barclid

ian said:


> Oh, so the 40g wasn’t from when you took the handle off?
> 
> Those are some nice cuts.


Correct. Without handle it's down 100 something grams. Handle is ironwood.


----------



## stringer

JKC 180 Gyuto
Shi.han 240 52100 Gyuto
3 Rams Chinese Vegetable Cleaver
Forgecraft 10" Chef Knife
Chinese Meat Cleaver


----------



## TSF415

stringer said:


> JKC 180 Gyuto
> Shi.han 240 52100 Gyuto
> 3 Rams Chinese Vegetable Cleaver
> Forgecraft 10" Chef Knife
> Chinese Meat Cleaver



Is that the forge craft inbetween the 2cleavers?


----------



## stringer

TSF415 said:


> Is that the forge craft inbetween the 2cleavers?



Yes. I bought it in minty condition a few years ago. It's been thinned a bunch.


----------



## TSF415

stringer said:


> Yes. I bought it in minty condition a few years ago. It's been thinned a bunch.


Maybe my favorite of the video


----------



## CiderBear

@Barmoley I think the Watzilla is ready to go home


----------



## Barmoley

Looks good, you did a great job with it.


----------



## CiderBear

Barmoley said:


> Looks good, you did a great job with it.



That's all I wanted to hear! I finished it with the Gesshin 3000 S&G from @ian and Takashima Awasedo from @labor of love, and this thing was digging into my cutting board from time to time. Wat's blue steel is meannnn


----------



## Briochy

CiderBear said:


> That's all I wanted to hear! I finished it with the Gesshin 3000 S&G from @ian and Takashima Awasedo from @labor of love, and this thing was digging into my cutting board from time to time. Wat's blue steel is meannnn


Yeah, the steel is excellent. My gyuto also digs into the board. Even after 3 dinner preps at home and a touch-up with King 6000, it gets just as sharp as it gets off the full progression. My other knives may only get 90% as sharp after being touched up like this.


----------



## panda

CiderBear said:


> That's all I wanted to hear! I finished it with the Gesshin 3000 S&G from @ian and Takashima Awasedo from @labor of love, and this thing was digging into my cutting board from time to time. Wat's blue steel is meannnn


you can thank daveb for that takashima, he passed it on to me and then to labor. nice stone.


----------



## labor of love

She can thank me too, flattery will get you everywhere.


----------



## daveb

Did somebody glue it back together? When I sent it to Panda it was one big, one small piece.


----------



## labor of love

Yeah, whoever did the glueing did a great job. I could feel the crack just a little bit, so I tried to sharpen around it.


----------



## panda

daveb said:


> Did somebody glue it back together? When I sent it to Panda it was one big, one small piece.


@Donald Roe did it for me


----------



## J.C

CiderBear said:


> @Barmoley I think the Watzilla is ready to go home [/MEDIA]


I wish i have that Michael Jackson glove, would be excellent for presentation when shaving truffle for the customer


----------



## Garm

J.C said:


> I wish i have that Michael Jackson glove, would be excellent for presentation when shaving truffle for the customer


Dude you just made me spray coffee on my screen


----------



## daveb

What do Michael Jackson and the Tampa Bay Rays have in common?



They both wear one glove for no apparent reason...


----------



## stringer

Peeling carrots. Here's how I do it. 
Rinse before you peel.
Never over the trash can.
Always a stick peeler for carrots/parsnips. And mostly a y-peeler for anything else. 
At home I use a 25 year old Cutco peeler.
For peeling a lot of carrots in a timely fashion it's all about the flip.


----------



## ModRQC

Lolllz got here in a timely fashion... Alpha and Omega, from OP to last reply. Rudimentary knife skills vs. awesome steel, amazing knife skills vs. 25 y.o. cutco peeler.

Seeing you CiderBear I was thinking... why not buy a Victo Fibrox and improve the basic skills... but then again, you wouldn't have nice knives for a wedging contest. When a Fibrox crackles over a carrot you may feel like the handle is coming off...  More power to you.

Please keep those videos coming whoever you are, no matter how good you are. Watch those fingers. You don't want to chip those nice steels over a bone.


----------



## bryan03

Barclid said:


> Currently thinning a "the James" Honyaki. Current progress in video here after taking about 40g off throughout.



how can you remove 40g on a knife ? you start from a blank ?


----------



## Barmoley

bryan03 said:


> how can you remove 40g on a knife ? you start from a blank ?


That's what I was thinking too, seems hard to believe.


----------



## Nikabrik

Assuming a 240mm length and 40mm average height, that would require removing about 0.5mm from each side at the edge, if it's decreasing to 0 removal at the spine.

Possible, but... Yikes. That'd be a chunky knife to start!


----------



## CiderBear

ModRQC said:


> Lolllz got here in a timely fashion... Alpha and Omega, from OP to last reply. Rudimentary knife skills vs. awesome steel, amazing knife skills vs. 25 y.o. cutco peeler.
> 
> Seeing you CiderBear I was thinking... why not buy a Victo Fibrox and improve the basic skills... but then again, you wouldn't have nice knives for a wedging contest. When a Fibrox crackles over a carrot you may feel like the handle is coming off...  More power to you.
> 
> Please keep those videos coming whoever you are, no matter how good you are. Watch those fingers. You don't want to chip those nice steels over a bone.



Solid advice. Brb let me sell all my knives and just stick to Victorinox and Mercer


----------



## panda

CiderBear said:


> Solid advice. Brb let me sell all my knives and just stick to Victorinox and Mercer


and a slap chop, but wait! there's more!! and for low price of $5.99 you get not one but two!!


----------



## daveb

Pls not a Mercer.....


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> and a slap chop, but wait! there's more!! and for low price of $5.99 you get not one but two!!



SALAD!!


----------



## M1k3

daveb said:


> Pls not a Mercer.....



Friends don't let friends use Mercer.


----------



## Barmoley

CiderBear said:


> Solid advice. Brb let me sell all my knives and just stick to Victorinox and Mercer


Don't listen to these guys, some are jerks and some, like me, think they are funny when they really are not.


----------



## labor of love

ModRQC said:


> Lolllz got here in a timely fashion... Alpha and Omega, from OP to last reply. Rudimentary knife skills vs. awesome steel, amazing knife skills vs. 25 y.o. cutco peeler.
> 
> Seeing you CiderBear I was thinking... why not buy a Victo Fibrox and improve the basic skills... but then again, you wouldn't have nice knives for a wedging contest. When a Fibrox crackles over a carrot you may feel like the handle is coming off...  More power to you.
> 
> Please keep those videos coming whoever you are, no matter how good you are. Watch those fingers. You don't want to chip those nice steels over a bone.


What are you even talking about? She’s just cutting a carrot, giving a demonstration on how all her knives move through a carrot to varying degrees of resistance. 

“You have no frame of reference here, Donny. You’re like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie …”


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> What are you even talking about? She’s just cutting a carrot, giving a demonstration on how all her knives move through a carrot to varying degrees of resistance.
> 
> “You have no frame of reference here, Donny. You’re like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie …”


it was a weird flex indeed


----------



## stringer

One thing that I learned very early in my culinary career is that no matter how much experience and knowledge and skills you have in the kitchen, you will never meet anyone who is incapable of teaching you something you didn't know.
The corollary is that you will never meet anyone who knows so much that you can't teach them anything.

So keep making videos and keep watching them. You never know when something you demonstrate might really help someone else. Even if it's just in making a decision about which knife to buy. And more importantly, successfully demonstrating a skill to someone else is the surest sign that you have mastered it.


----------



## ModRQC

CiderBear said:


> Solid advice. Brb let me sell all my knives and just stick to Victorinox and Mercer





labor of love said:


> What are you even talking about? She’s just cutting a carrot, giving a demonstration on how all her knives move through a carrot to varying degrees of resistance.
> 
> “You have no frame of reference here, Donny. You’re like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie …”



Actually loved the vids and didn't care about technique, although it was alpha to omega between first and last. I remarked reading the whole thread that a lot of people were onto those details instead of the knives slicing carrots. Just used sarcasm here, I am quite sorry to have offended. I'm exactly the type to think something is funny when it's not. My bad and sore mistake.

TBH, using a Fibrox on hard veggies does feel like its gonna break... Seeing Cider's knives, I feel that the Earth would crack before they do. And if ever she needs vengeance I'll post a video of me sharpening knives...


----------



## XooMG

With my early videos, I had to do all the mandatory apologies for bad technique and randomness in cuts, but I still somehow was able to show some of the knives' character.

This one was originally trying a friend's prototype cleaver (first) next to a relatively familiar [to me] carrot laser. It didn't rule the knife out as a bad performer; it just set a practical limit to its range and showed where it would shine more (later cuts in the video).


----------



## Carl Kotte

If good knife skills were required to post knife videos on KKF many (not all) of us amateurs/home users would be blocked. But hey, that’s one of the great things with KKF: we are all allowed to post here. Obviously we share a passion and most members are generous enough to give each other credit! As Stringer said, we learn from each other. I hope it stays that way!


----------



## ModRQC

XooMG said:


> With my early videos, I had to do all the mandatory apologies for bad technique and randomness in cuts, but I still somehow was able to show some of the knives' character.
> 
> This one was originally trying a friend's prototype cleaver (first) next to a relatively familiar [to me] carrot laser. It didn't rule the knife out as a bad performer; it just set a practical limit to its range and showed where it would shine more (later cuts in the video).




Nice... Your friend's prototype needed a bit thinning, or was it something else? Seems to cut alright in the smaller slices, nowhere near as good as your trusted one though. However it becomes subjective a bit when you see it wedge in that carrot, I had a prejudice looking at it slice again afterwards. Just a question but interested in the answer.


----------



## XooMG

ModRQC said:


> Nice... Your friend's prototype needed a bit thinning, or was it something else? Seems to cut alright in the smaller slices, nowhere near as good as your trusted one though. However it becomes subjective a bit when you see it wedge in that carrot, I had a prejudice looking at it slice again afterwards. Just a question but interested in the answer.


The hard wedge was far up the blade at the top of the hollow where most ingredients wouldn't reach. The edge was quite thin and the main bevel was an angle that produced a good separation. When I made videos, I was very reluctant to make confident judgments, because makers (in my limited experience) will decide on their own to either rationalize performance limitations or feel compelled to change them. There are many cutting scenarios where the heavy beast would shine and the thin knife would be more of a hassle in use, but it's not my place to tell makers they need to make knives specifically for my habits and preferences. They can balance their sympathy for my needs with those of others as well as their own notion of the products' "character".

Nevertheless, that maker has gone through several generations of cleavers since then and so my videos don't reflect any modern products.


----------



## stringer

XooMG said:


> The hard wedge was far up the blade at the top of the hollow where most ingredients wouldn't reach. The edge was quite thin and the main bevel was an angle that produced a good separation. When I made videos, I was very reluctant to make confident judgments, because makers (in my limited experience) will decide on their own to either rationalize performance limitations or feel compelled to change them. There are many cutting scenarios where the heavy beast would shine and the thin knife would be more of a hassle in use, but it's not my place to tell makers they need to make knives specifically for my habits and preferences. They can balance their sympathy for my needs with those of others as well as their own notion of the products' "character".
> 
> Nevertheless, that maker has gone through several generations of cleavers since then and so my videos don't reflect any modern products.




We have slightly opposite approaches. I have never once thought about a knife makers intentions with regards to performance. I have certain things I expect a knife in a certain class to be able to do. If a knife won't do what I want I modify it until it does. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## ModRQC

XooMG said:


> The hard wedge was far up the blade at the top of the hollow where most ingredients wouldn't reach. The edge was quite thin and the main bevel was an angle that produced a good separation. When I made videos, I was very reluctant to make confident judgments, because makers (in my limited experience) will decide on their own to either rationalize performance limitations or feel compelled to change them. There are many cutting scenarios where the heavy beast would shine and the thin knife would be more of a hassle in use, but it's not my place to tell makers they need to make knives specifically for my habits and preferences. They can balance their sympathy for my needs with those of others as well as their own notion of the products' "character".
> 
> Nevertheless, that maker has gone through several generations of cleavers since then and so my videos don't reflect any modern products.





stringer said:


> We have slightly opposite approaches. I have never once thought about a knife makers intentions with regards to performance. I have certain things I expect a knife in a certain class to be able to do. If a knife won't do what I want I modify it until it does. Rinse and repeat.



I asked because yours just glided through the same carrot - same thickness. The question because of what stringer said exactly, not to misquote him, but I'd expect a cleaver to be able to take on a big carrot exactly like yours did in the video. That said you probably did yours to your liking (called it carrot laser, eh), whereas just tested your friend's without modifying. And from your point of view, or rather the maker's point of view which you focused on, I'd rather get that specific sort of knife a bit too thick than thin. At least I could see about it depending on my use.

Did you use your trusted one also as a butcher cleaver, or only with bigger veggies? And your friend's? Would appreciate the input, looking into cleavers but I'd like one that's best of both worlds. Such a thing would imply compromises, perhaps ones that can't exactly be made I expect, hence the question.


----------



## XooMG

ModRQC said:


> I asked because yours just glided through the same carrot - same thickness. The question because of what stringer said exactly, not to misquote him, but I'd expect a cleaver to be able to take on a big carrot exactly like yours did in the video. That said you probably did yours to your liking (called it carrot laser, eh), whereas just tested your friend's without modifying. And from your point of view, or rather the maker's point of view which you focused on, I'd rather get that specific sort of knife a bit too thick than thin. At least I could see about it depending on my use.
> 
> Did you use your trusted one also as a butcher cleaver, or only with bigger veggies? And your friend's? Would appreciate the input, looking into cleavers but I'd like one that's best of both worlds. Such a thing would imply compromises, perhaps ones that can't exactly be made I expect, hence the question.


I'm not a serious cook, so my demands don't reflect much beyond my own limited repertoire. If he were making it custom for me, the video shows where I might benefit from adjustment, but beyond that, it was an apples-oranges comparison. I might have a personal hierarchy of favorites, but given the number of times I've been helpfully reminded by makers or their proponents that I'm not a competent or professional culinarian, I'd rather just let the video convey to the maker (the original intended audience) what might happen in my hands.

My thinned cleavers are somewhat fragile and I have chipped them in some ingredients (no meats or bones in my cooking, so that's not something I test for). I don't use them universally but rather for things that benefit from coarse breakdown like large segments of carrots, squash, sweet potatoes, or short thin slices like capsicum chops and draw cuts.

I did intentionally chip one of my modded cleavers along with the prototype (with permission) in a bamboo skewer, since they are rather different steels but not very different near-edge thickness and I wanted to see how they would fare at the point of failure. The simpler steel with better refinement unsurprisingly had much less damage and was much easier to work out.

The prototype was just a loan and was returned after a short while. My playing with it was just a brief and minor contribution.


----------



## ModRQC

XooMG said:


> I'm not a serious cook, so my demands don't reflect much beyond my own limited repertoire. If he were making it custom for me, the video shows where I might benefit from adjustment, but beyond that, it was an apples-oranges comparison. I might have a personal hierarchy of favorites, but given the number of times I've been helpfully reminded by makers or their proponents that I'm not a competent or professional culinarian, I'd rather just let the video convey to the maker (the original intended audience) what might happen in my hands.
> 
> My thinned cleavers are somewhat fragile and I have chipped them in some ingredients (no meats or bones in my cooking, so that's not something I test for). I don't use them universally but rather for things that benefit from coarse breakdown like large segments of carrots, squash, sweet potatoes, or short thin slices like capsicum chops and draw cuts.
> 
> I did intentionally chip one of my modded cleavers along with the prototype (with permission) in a bamboo skewer, since they are rather different steels but not very different near-edge thickness and I wanted to see how they would fare at the point of failure. The simpler steel with better refinement unsurprisingly had much less damage and was much easier to work out.
> 
> The prototype was just a loan and was returned after a short while. My playing with it was just a brief and minor contribution.



Sorry this will seem obvious to you and most people here, but "simpler steel with better refinement" being yours? What were the steels?


----------



## stringer

I missed the part about prototype/loan. That makes sense. 

My standard test for checking whether a gyuto is dialed in correct is to make some kind of stir fry. If I can machine gun double rock chop garlic and then cut transparent ginger chop sticks and slice pepper skins effortlessly twice a week for five or six months without too much chipping then 
I know the edge is ok. If it can't do that then it's not a gyuto or a veggie cleaver in my book. Because that's the bare minimum of abuse that I expect that class of knife to tolerate.


----------



## Barclid

Barmoley said:


> That's what I was thinking too, seems hard to believe.





bryan03 said:


> how can you remove 40g on a knife ? you start from a blank ?



277g starting weight with handle. Handle weighs 76g, blade was 201g at the beginning with basically zero distal taper. The blade is now 159g prior to polishing. The knife has been thinned from the edge up to the spine. You can see the same knife with a different, heavier handle here listed at 303g: https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...-245mm-white-2-honyaki-gyuto-the-james.38667/

I think you're grossly underestimating the weight of a knife blank.

Edit: as to HOW you do it? I have an 80 grit horizontal wheel that I removed the bulk of metal on. Took about 30 minutes of gross metal removal to get all of that off and much more afterwards to clean it up.


----------



## ModRQC

@stringer Comforting to see you chop. A more evolved, more practiced, more tricks in the bag, version of my actual standing, also much more adept with the claw grip follow-up and all. I still have to practice on the double rock chop too, it didn't come so easy to me when I tried it first but the knife was a crappy Cuisinart. Nowadays used as a cleaver. Didn't dare practice it with the Diplome I now own, but I just received a cheap Victo Rosewood 10" to use for such purposes and massive chopping sessions. Loved that video... I can't wait to jump onto food prep tonight, didn't cook since Sunday and I miss prep sooooo much.


----------



## panda

Keep in mind cutting hard veggies is not everything. The ones that wedge are usually way better at cutting soft foods than the ones that don't wedge..


----------



## Barclid

Depends what you like and what you expect from your knives. Thicker knives will undeniably be worse at thin cuts like sengiri even on soft foods, so it's going to depend on the type of cuts you need to make on a day-to-day basis.


----------



## dafox

stringer said:


> I missed the part about prototype/loan. That makes sense.
> 
> My standard test for checking whether a gyuto is dialed in correct is to make some kind of stir fry. If I can machine gun double rock chop garlic and then cut transparent ginger chop sticks and slice pepper skins effortlessly twice a week for five or six months without too much chipping then
> I know the edge is ok. If it can't do that then it's not a gyuto or a veggie cleaver in my book. Because that's the bare minimum of abuse that I expect that class of knife to tolerate.



Can you share the rest of that recipe with us? That's my kind of cooking!


----------



## stringer

dafox said:


> Can you share the rest of that recipe with us? That's my kind of cooking!



My wife calls it crack slaw. I've seen variations with ground beef or shrimp. Both work great. This time I used shrimp and store bought cole slaw mix you can see in the edge of the video.

Shrimp crack slaw
2 pounds shrimp or 1.5 pounds ground beef

5 cloves Garlic, fine chop
1 finger Ginger, fine chop
10 Thai chilies, thinly sliced
1 stick Lemongrass, thinly sliced

2 bags Cole slaw mix 
or 
1/2 head shredded cabbage and a cup of julienne carrots


1 T. Coconut Aminos
1 T. Soy sauce
1 t. fishsauce
1 t. Shrimp Paste

1 T. Peanut oil
2 t. rice wine vinegar

Saute shrimp in peanut oil on very high heat until 75% cooked in wok or big skillet

Remove shrimp from pan

Saute garlic, ginger, chilies, and lemongrass until soft. 
Add cabbbage/carrots, cook until just soft.

Add aminos, soy sauce, fish sauce, shrimp Paste and rice wine vinegar, let reduce for 1 minute

Put shrimp back in pan, cook through 2 minutes

Cilantro, scallions, peanuts, sesame oil and sesame seeds for garnish


----------



## dafox

stringer said:


> My wife calls it crack slaw. I've seen variations with ground beef or shrimp. Both work great. This time I used shrimp and store bought cole slaw mix you can see in the edge of the video.
> 
> Shrimp crack slaw
> 2 pounds shrimp or 1.5 pounds ground beef
> 
> 5 cloves Garlic, fine chop
> 1 finger Ginger, fine chop
> 10 Thai chilies, thinly sliced
> 1 stick Lemongrass, thinly sliced
> 
> 2 bags Cole slaw mix
> or
> 1/2 head shredded cabbage and a cup of julienne carrots
> 
> 
> 1 T. Coconut Aminos
> 1 T. Soy sauce
> 1 t. fishsauce
> 1 t. Shrimp Paste
> 
> 1 T. Peanut oil
> 2 t. rice wine vinegar
> 
> Saute shrimp in peanut oil on very high heat until 75% cooked in wok or big skillet
> 
> Remove shrimp from pan
> 
> Saute garlic, ginger, chilies, and lemongrass until soft.
> Add cabbbage/carrots, cook until just soft.
> 
> Add aminos, soy sauce, fish sauce, shrimp Paste and rice wine vinegar, let reduce for 1 minute
> 
> Put shrimp back in pan, cook through 2 minutes
> 
> Cilantro, scallions, peanuts, sesame oil and sesame seeds for garnish


Wow, thanks!


----------



## Nagakin

Barclid said:


> Depends what you like and what you expect from your knives. Thicker knives will undeniably be worse at thin cuts like sengiri even on soft foods, so it's going to depend on the type of cuts you need to make on a day-to-day basis.


It really depends on the knife and your own personal preference. My usual weapon of choice is 5mm at the heel, which I prefer over any laser I've tried.


----------



## ModRQC

@stringer Oh so nice... a bit of inspiration for tonight. Was going somehow in the same direction, although quite different too. One bit of your recipe didn't go amiss though! Thanks!


----------



## stringer

Shrimp Crack Slaw
There's a million variations of this on the internet. This one is mine. I eat it with rice.


----------



## panda

my fat ass thought this was pad thai at first


----------



## labor of love

stringer said:


> Shrimp Crack Slaw
> There's a million variations of this on the internet. This one is mine. I eat it with rice.
> 
> View attachment 72526


I really dig that plate.


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> I really dig that plate.



70's Corel I think?


----------



## daveb

This thread has certainly wandered about a bit. The tangents have tangents. Like.


----------



## stringer

M1k3 said:


> 70's Corel I think?



My parents' wedding China from 1979. I inherited what was left of it when I went to college in 2000. My wife and I have nicer stuff, but we almost always use these.


----------



## labor of love

My folks had similar plates, used them a lot when I was young for special occasions. That’s why I like it.


----------



## panda

i think mine still have those, haha


----------



## stringer

panda said:


> my fat ass thought this was pad thai at first



It is basically low carb pad thai.


----------



## Michi

stringer said:


> If I can machine gun double rock chop garlic and then cut transparent ginger chop sticks and slice pepper skins effortlessly twice a week for five or six months without too much chipping then


I absolutely love those videos. For one, they are a lot more fun to watch than someone cutting paper. And I get to learn something about technique. Please keep them coming!


----------



## ModRQC

They’re as close to the real thing as you get without holding the knife...

which describes also what people asking me to help me in my prep get to do.


----------



## mack

I tried to do a video (my first one, be clement). I am a bad cutter, as you can see:



Knives:
0:00 Kippington 252mm left handed geometry 52100
0:47 Dalman 250mm triple hollow grind AEB-L
1:27 Kamon 260mm 1.2519 stainless cladding
2:21 KMS-Forums-knife 255mm 1.2562 Uwe Mattern Tuning
3:07 Kamon Production knife
3:57 Herder K-Chef 225mm Stainless 60HRC
4:41 Xerxes Primus 230mm SC125
5:27 Uwe Mattern "Greek Knife" 225mm 14C28N
6:27 Simon Herde 200mm 14C28N
7:17 Winner

Mack.


----------



## Michi

mack said:


> I tried to do a video (my first one, be clement)


Great video, thank you! I really like the way you did this. The slow cuts through the whole thickness of the carrot at different positions along the blade really expose how much the carrot is tearing, rather than being cut. The sound is very revealing.



mack said:


> I am a bad cutter, as you can see


No, you are not! Speed isn't everything, and it's not the point for this exercise anyway.

I was blown away by how well the Herder K-Chef did. I did not expect that at all.


----------



## ian

mack said:


> I tried to do a video (my first one, be clement). I am a bad cutter, as you can see:
> 
> 
> 
> Knives:
> 0:00 Kippington 252mm left handed geometry 52100
> 0:47 Dalman 250mm triple hollow grind AEB-L
> 1:27 Kamon 260mm 1.2519 stainless cladding
> 2:21 KMS-Forums-knife 255mm 1.2562 Uwe Mattern Tuning
> 3:07 Kamon Production knife
> 3:57 Herder K-Chef 225mm Stainless 60HRC
> 4:41 Xerxes Primus 230mm SC125
> 5:27 Uwe Mattern "Greek Knife" 225mm 14C28N
> 6:27 Simon Herde 200mm 14C28N
> 7:17 Winner
> 
> Mack.




Which grind is the Kip? (Workhorse/pony/laser, etc...)


----------



## mack

ian said:


> Which grind is the Kip? (Workhorse/pony/laser, etc...)



This can't be specificated. It's 65mm high at the heel and kip was told to get as near to a workhorse as possible. It's 4mm thick at the heel.

Mack.

Edit: it's this knife:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/kippington-252mm-gyuto.44255/


----------



## Garm

Uwe Mattern, is that the same Uwe that's known here as suntravel?
That knife looks like a spectacular performer.


----------



## M1k3

Speed of cutting only matters in a professional setting. Cut tests are a whole other thing.


----------



## panda

efficiency > speed


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> efficiency > speed


Yeah Speed demons often have the worst looking product. But it depends what you’re cutting.


----------



## Matt Zilliox

Knives:
0:00 Kippington 252mm left handed geometry 52100
0:47 Dalman 250mm triple hollow grind AEB-L
1:27 Kamon 260mm 1.2519 stainless cladding
2:21 KMS-Forums-knife 255mm 1.2562 Uwe Mattern Tuning
3:07 Kamon Production knife
3:57 Herder K-Chef 225mm Stainless 60HRC
4:41 Xerxes Primus 230mm SC125
5:27 Uwe Mattern "Greek Knife" 225mm 14C28N
6:27 Simon Herde 200mm 14C28N
7:17 Winner

interesting, visually i would have guessed a different knife.


----------



## panda

mack said:


> I tried to do a video (my first one, be clement). I am a bad cutter, as you can see:
> 
> 
> 
> Knives:
> 0:00 Kippington 252mm left handed geometry 52100
> 0:47 Dalman 250mm triple hollow grind AEB-L
> 1:27 Kamon 260mm 1.2519 stainless cladding
> 2:21 KMS-Forums-knife 255mm 1.2562 Uwe Mattern Tuning
> 3:07 Kamon Production knife
> 3:57 Herder K-Chef 225mm Stainless 60HRC
> 4:41 Xerxes Primus 230mm SC125
> 5:27 Uwe Mattern "Greek Knife" 225mm 14C28N
> 6:27 Simon Herde 200mm 14C28N
> 7:17 Winner
> 
> Mack.



why does that kip have such a dumb looking profile??


----------



## Kippington

I make some knives to customer spec.


----------



## panda

Kippington said:


> I make some knives to customer spec.


lolz, if i was a knife maker i would turn away projects such as this simply out of principle.


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> efficiency > speed



Efficiency+speed


----------



## Viggetorr

panda said:


> lolz, if i was a knife maker i would turn away projects such as this simply out of principle.



Shut up, Meg.


----------



## mack

panda said:


> lolz, if i was a knife maker i would turn away projects such as this simply out of principle.



Well, wasn't my idea either, but I won't judge the original owner. Although it is an unusal profile, I works well. Doesn't come out in the video that much but it is great on the board. I just wanted to test a Kip in 52100 and that was a good opportunity for me as a left-handed guy. Another one is on its way.

Mack.


----------



## Matt Zilliox

the Xerxes looked the best cutting, just saying.


----------



## mack

Matt Zilliox said:


> the Xerxes looked the best cutting, just saying.



The Xerxes did a great job, no question. what I don't like on the xerxes and the Herder K-Chef is the fact, that they have bad food release. Buy far the best performer was the Greek knife.

Mack.


----------



## Matt Zilliox

mack said:


> The Xerxes did a great job, no question. what I don't like on the xerxes and the Herder K-Chef is the fact, that they have bad food release. Buy far the best performer was the Greek knife.
> 
> Mack.


i did notice the stick on the xerxes, but it also fell through the carrot. im surprised it was that clear. that first Kamon also looked business


----------



## milkbaby

Matt Zilliox said:


> the Xerxes looked the best cutting, just saying.



I agree, the Xerxes looked and sounded the most effortless.


----------



## mack

Hi guys,

I did another video - cutting carrots with my lasers.



0:00 Suisin Inox Honyaki 240mm 
0:45 Ikkanshi Tadatsuna Inox 240mm 
1:27 Ashi Swedish Stainless Steel 240mm extra hard 
2:02 Konosuke HD2 240mm 
2:44 Sakai Yusuke Stainless Steel extra hard extra thick 240mm 
3:29 Sakai Yusuke Stainless Steel extra hard 240mm 
4:09 Sakai Yusuke Stainless Steel extra hard extra thin 240mm 
4:46 Ashi Swedish Stainless Steel 210mm 
5:18 Sakai Yusuke Stainless Steel extra hard extra thin 210mm 
5:59 Ashi Swedish Stainless Steel 180mm Nakiri 
6:28 Ashi Swedish Stainless Steel 180mm Santoku extra hard 
7:03 Winner 
7:29 Special guest: Uwe Mattern 225mm Gyuto 14C28N

There are nearly no differences, the winner is the Ashi Nakiri, I also liked the extra thin Yusukes and the SIH. But none of these knives cuts as easy as the greek knife by Uwe Mattern.

Best,
Mack.


----------



## ian

This is not competition with Mack's video in any sense, but I was prepping some shepherd’s pie tonight using lamb that I murdered using a somewhat new Catcheside 180 from @ashy2classy, and thought that this thread was as good a place as any to post the vid, given the presence of carrots.

Note: I'm just screwing around here. I hadn't decided ahead of time how much of anything I was going to chop, or what shapes I was going to chop a given ingredient into, so the pace of the video is rather slow. But we all have time on our hands now, right?


----------



## labor of love

My fave thing about these food releasing grinds (takeda, Catcheside, heiji) is how the cut product stays in one place on the board instead moving around after every cut.


----------



## ashy2classy

ian said:


> This is not competition with Mack's video in any sense, but I was prepping some sheperd's pie tonight using lamb that I murdered using a somewhat new Catcheside 180 from @ashy2classy, and thought that this thread was as good a place as any to post the vid, given the presence of carrots.
> 
> Note: I'm just screwing around here. I hadn't decided ahead of time how much of anything I was going to chop, or what shapes I was going to chop a given ingredient into, so the pace of the video is rather slow. But we all have time on our hands now, right?



Glad you're enjoying the Catche!!!


----------



## ian

Here's another carrot cutting video with a formerly KU Wat 180 I've been regrinding. Not quite there yet, although actually this video is more cracky than usual with this knife. I thought it was entertaining, though, so I'm posting it anyway.



And here's the result.


----------



## captaincaed

That's adorable


----------



## Nagakin

"Isn't it really weird? Why do you think people like cutting videos?"

NGL I was waiting to get roasted pretty hard, by the dreaded kid burn.


----------



## M1k3

Brightened my day up! Thanks @ian


----------



## Michi

@ian That was great to watch, thank you!


----------



## labor of love

Didn’t film the making of the carrot juice though.
Start over from the beginning.


----------



## daveb

The juice vid is prolly in a different thread.....

Spread the love.


----------



## M1k3

daveb said:


> Spread the love.



I'm trying!


----------



## ian

labor of love said:


> Didn’t film the making of the carrot juice though.
> Start over from the beginning.



You can extrapolate from what’s in the vid, though. Just keep cutting em smaller and smaller, and voila!



daveb said:


> The juice vid is prolly in a different thread.....
> 
> Spread the love.



Nice to see you in a carrot thread.


----------



## daveb

Look, an orange thing!

Closest I'm getting to a carrot 2day.


----------



## ian

One more vid of carrots vs Wat, after further modification. Cuts pretty nice now. May table the project for a while.



The knife's got much more of a distal taper now. Here are the measurements of spine thickness:

4.14 mm at handle
3.62 mm at heel
1.52 mm at middle of knife
.93 mm at 2 cm from tip
.68 mm 1cm from tip

It's generally around .6 mm at 5mm from the edge, and around 1.1 mm at 10 mm from the edge.

Spine:






Choil:


----------



## Keat

Here are a couple more cutting videos.



Knives in order of appearance:
- Watanabe Pro Nakiri 180mm, some sharpening, minor thinning
- Heiji Carbon KU Nakiri (180mm) this knife belongs to @CiderBear
- Tsourkan Workhorse 225mm
- Toyama 210 Nakiri (Stainless clad)
- JKI Kochi, V2 version 240mm (it did not want to cut the carrot and was quickly eliminated, excellent performer otherwise)
- Toyama 210 Gyuto, iron clad

Incoming phone call caused a premature end to video 1. I also kicked out the Kochi and Toyama Gyuto out of the competition at this point.



Video 2 knives in order of appearance:

- Toyama 210 Nakiri
- Heiji Carbon KU Nakiri (180mm)
- Watanabe Pro Nakiri 180mm
- Tsourkan Workhorse 225mm (performance on carrots was surprisingly good)
- Mazaki KU 240 Gyuto

The nakiris were clearly best performers in my mind, with the Toyama 210 nakiri being the most effortless. It had zero wedging on carrots this size. The Heiji Carbon is an incredibly smooth cutter even through it had some resistance at times. The Watanabe Pro Nakiri is super smooth too, but the Heiji is thicker and heaver in the blade, which surprisingly doesn't slow down the knife as much as you would expect. 

A few miscellaneous notes - apologies for the poor video angles. This is not my normal cutting technique, given the video angle I didn't keep my left hand that close to the product being cut. I would note that I hadn't handled the Heiji Carbon much before and this was the first thing I cut out of the box with the Toyama 210 Nakiri (of course resulting in a little micro-chipping). Also, the cutting board isn't as loud as it sound in the videos.

Finally and most importantly, thanks to CiderBear for starting this thread and her videos that inspired mine.


----------



## Corradobrit1

The Carrot colored cat looks totally disinterested. Nice comparo. Who made the end grain Walnut board? 227wood?


----------



## Keat

It's a BoardSmith, walnut, size is 16x22. It's great.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Keat said:


> It's a BoardSmith, walnut, size is 16x22. It's great.


My main chopping board has the same dimensions. Good size to work with imo


----------



## captaincaed

CJA


----------



## lemeneid

TF vs Toyanabe, or Watanyama, whatever the cool kids call it.

And do forgive my lousy knife skills.


----------



## mayong

mack said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I did another video - cutting carrots with my lasers.
> 
> Best,
> Mack.



Mack's laser video needs to be posted to r/oddlysatisfying.

Also this is my favorite thread ever; thanks for taking the time to make and post all of these videos, gang.


----------



## mack

@mayong 

Thanks for your kind words. But I am not that much into these social media things, or however one can call these reddit-thingd. I was happy to be able to upload a video on youtube...

But if it is possible (technically spoken) and you want to, feel free to do so.

Mack.

P.s. I have some more lasers with ebony wood and blond horn ferrules (pettys, sujihikis), but I don't use them for carrots.


----------



## Boynutman

mack said:


> @mayong
> 
> Thanks for your kind words. But I am not that much into these social media things, or however one can call these reddit-thingd. I was happy to be able to upload a video on youtube...
> 
> But if it is possible (technically spoken) and you want to, feel free to do so.
> 
> Mack.
> 
> P.s. I have some more lasers with ebony wood and blond horn ferrules (pettys, sujihikis), but I don't use them for carrots.



This was hypnotizing. Like driving through a long tunnel. You sure your buddy wasn’t secretly passing you the same knife over and over again behind camera?


----------



## Boynutman

Beautiful handles.


----------



## mack

Boynutman said:


> This was hypnotizing. Like driving through a long tunnel. You sure your buddy wasn’t secretly passing you the same knife over and over again behind camera?




Well, yes, I am quite sure 






A few ebony lasers on the left, the other knives (mostly european makers - Kamon, Dalman, Uwe Mattern-suntravel, Simon Herde, Kippington) on the right.
Some ebony lasers with blond horn ferrules are missing, but well... I need another knife rack.

Mack.


----------



## Southpaw

So I’m new here but... is that wedging on celery thing a joke?
Where the f-word do u wedge on celery?

I know this is one of things that will be obvious to me once you’ve explained how you mean.
(Also I used to cut celery when I was bored at work, and then just would throw it out, it’s practically free and I was the one doing the ordering anyways)


----------



## Southpaw

mack said:


> Well, yes, I am quite sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few ebony lasers on the left, the other knives (mostly european makers - Kamon, Dalman, Uwe Mattern-suntravel, Simon Herde, Kippington) on the right.
> Some ebony lasers with blond horn ferrules are missing, but well... I need another knife rack.
> 
> Mack.
> [/QUO


Wow that just looks like a picture of divorce papers to me...


----------



## ian

Southpaw said:


> Wow that just looks like a picture of divorce papers to me...



I hear that in a divorce you have to defend yourself well.



Southpaw said:


> So I’m new here but... is that wedging on celery thing a joke?
> Where the f-word do u wedge on celery?
> 
> I know this is one of things that will be obvious to me once you’ve explained how you mean.
> (Also I used to cut celery when I was bored at work, and then just would throw it out, it’s practically free and I was the one doing the ordering anyways)



What size celery are you cutting?






More seriously, I imagine people have been talking more about hearing celery crack (and wanting to minimize that) rather than actually having it wedge. That's certainly never happened to me.


----------



## mack

As everyone is loving corrots, here is another video 



Mack.


----------



## Carl Kotte

@mack Of course we love carrots ! Thanks for posting these videos. In your honour, here’s another carrot. 
It’s a wedge, a lovely lovely wedge.


----------



## Michi

mack said:


> As everyone is loving corrots, here is another video


Great video, thanks! I'm impressed with the Kippington in particular—looks razor sharp and cuts in perfect silence!


----------



## IsoJ

mack said:


> As everyone is loving corrots, here is another video
> 
> 
> 
> Mack.



That Kipp . What is the Santokuish blade?Smide?


----------



## IsoJ

Carl Kotte said:


> @mack Of course we love carrots ! Thanks for posting these videos. In your honour, here’s another carrot.
> It’s a wedge, a lovely lovely wedge.



The bigger the better


----------



## Carl Kotte

IsoJ said:


> The bigger the better


Small carrots, big knife


----------



## mack

IsoJ said:


> That Kipp . What is the Santokuish blade?Smide?



That's a Kamon. 5-layer san mai. It was his first custom (and order) ever made. A knife for my wife. 

Mack.


----------



## IsoJ

mack said:


> That's a Kamon. 5-layer san mai. It was his first custom (and order) ever made. A knife for my wife.
> 
> Mack.


Ou, that is nice. I didn't look the makers mark closely enough . Your wife has one heck of a knife.


----------



## toddnmd

Southpaw said:


> So I’m new here but... is that wedging on celery thing a joke?
> Where the f-word do u wedge on celery?
> 
> I know this is one of things that will be obvious to me once you’ve explained how you mean.
> (Also I used to cut celery when I was bored at work, and then just would throw it out, it’s practically free and I was the one doing the ordering anyways)



I believe it can happen if the stalk is in an inverted u-position. The blade can act like a keystone in an arch as it makes the cut.


----------



## tyfabes

Loving that Xerxes. Wish they were easier to obtain!


----------



## Froztitanz

270mm White 1 Yamahide Gyuto. Surprisingly thin BTE.


----------



## ma_sha1

deleted


----------



## josemartinlopez

Stupid question, but at what level of resistance or noise do you complain that a knife is wedging in a carrot and not cutting well? I mean, it's easy to disqualify a knife that just doesn't want to go into a carrot, but when can you say that a knife is a good cutter but does not happen to slice into carrots effortlessly? Also, are there any knife skill errors you should watch out for that might cause wedging in a carrot and is not the knife's fault?


----------



## Nagakin

josemartinlopez said:


> Stupid question, but at what level of resistance or noise do you complain that a knife is wedging in a carrot and not cutting well? I mean, it's easy to disqualify a knife that just doesn't want to go into a carrot, but when can you say that a knife is a good cutter but does not happen to slice into carrots effortlessly? Also, are there any knife skill errors you should watch out for that might cause wedging in a carrot and is not the knife's fault?


Not stupid questions.

It's only annoying if you're going for presentation with thicker pieces like glazing oblique cut carrots for 800. By forum standards...if you hear basically anything it's not "effortless" enough. 

In practical use there aren't many knives or applications that struggle in this specific area. You really only crack on cuts thick enough for zero give...3/4" or bigger maybe? It's a bigger problem with squash, where you usually do want a laser.

When you push cut, keep your wrist loose and enter at an angle (similar to a rock chop) to use the natural curve of the blade for both cutting and leverage, while also minimizing blade contact. The longer the cut, the more exaggerated your angle of entry. 

When tap chopping quickly practice keeping a _firm _pinch grip with a loose wrist to basically do the same thing. Think of it as very small slicing motions as opposed to straight up and down. This is an area where blade weight shines. 

Bad knife skills are generally people who lock their wrist and use their arm/elbow. Some people make it work, but like most things...flicka da wrist.


----------



## daveb

Well first you're going to have to buy a carrot....

Check back after.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Hmmmm. I can’t make up my mind which carrot to buy. I may have some questions about this.


----------



## XooMG

(Removed irrelevant content.)


----------



## ian

I'm convinced that carrot cutting vids are just as dependent on the water content of the carrot (or something) as the girth. I mean, I was cutting beets the other day and had a really fresh hydrated one, and even though it was pretty hard to the touch and was bigger than my fist, my knife just slid through it like it wasn't even there. On the other hand, with a super hard and dry 1 cm in diam carrot, I can get cracking with the same knife.


----------



## Carl Kotte

ian said:


> I'm convinced that carrot cutting vids are just as dependent on the water content of the carrot (or something) as the girth. I mean, I was cutting beets the other day and had a really fresh hydrated one, and even though it was pretty hard to the touch and was bigger than my fist, my knife just slid through it like it wasn't even there. On the other hand, with a super hard and dry 1 cm in diam carrot, I can get cracking with the same knife.


Yes, but doesn’t that show that a true performer - like a really thin knife - would also add water to the produce to make the cut as smooth and non-cracking as possible. Perhaps a true performer even incorporates its own silencer?  Jml here are two new topics for you!


----------



## ian

I usually put WD-40 on my knives before cutting. Works for me.


----------



## lemeneid

Cutting the corners of carrots silently is child’s play and not worth talking about. My benchmark is still right through the middle without making a sound. If your knife can do that, it’s a good carrot knife


----------



## josemartinlopez

Nagakin said:


> When you push cut, keep your wrist loose and enter at an angle (similar to a rock chop) to use the natural curve of the blade for both cutting and leverage, while also minimizing blade contact. The longer the cut, the more exaggerated your angle of entry.


Is the stroke the same for a nakiri?


----------



## M1k3

josemartinlopez said:


> Is the stroke the same for a nakiri?


That's what sea said.


----------



## daveb

ian said:


> I'm convinced that carrot cutting vids are just as dependent on the water content of the carrot (or something) as the girth.



Truth. A friend was "auditioning" to be the Garde Mange for one of Orlando's Japanese attractions. Part of test was katsuramuki with several carrots. He soaked them overnight so that they would all have same water content. And got the job. (And now uses a mandolin....)


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

lemeneid said:


> Cutting the corners of carrots silently is child’s play and not worth talking about. My benchmark is still right through the middle without making a sound. If your knife can do that, it’s a good carrot knife


It also depends on how tall the carrot is. A 5 cm tall carrot is obviously more difficult than a 2.5 cm one.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Finally adding some videos to this fantastic thread. I've been trying to find carrots that are 4-5 cm tall but there is inconsistency here.

This one I did a couple of months ago but had been too lazy to upload. I just did 1 cut by tip and middle part for each knife so may not say enough about them. Those are Shibata R2, Kono FM, Y. Tanaka and Wat, out of which I like Kono FM best.


This is a 10” 52100 Zkramer that I’ve thinned quite a bit. Tried a carrot then found I forgot to record, so it starts with the 2nd carrot followed by a sweet potato. This knife is my quietest carrot cutter although as you can see the food release is not the best. I'll try to add a bit of s grind to the right side and see if it helps.


These are a 220 stock removal mono RWL34 knife made by a Chinese custom maker and a 170 Takamura r2 santoku. I really love this Chinese knife as it cuts better than my most Japanese knives including Kono FM, Wat, Mazaki, Yoshi Amekiri, Y. Tanaka, etc.. The 170 Takamura r2 santoku is a really good small knife. I like it better than the 210 version of it as it's a bit taller and less flexible. It doesn't have much weights to help cut but it's really fun to use as a small laser.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

It’s a CCK 1303 that I thinned a little bit. Its weight distribution and profile as a cleaver are not what I’m very familiar with tbh, but it’s fun to use.


----------



## tostadas

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> It’s a CCK 1303 that I thinned a little bit. Its weight distribution and profile as a cleaver are not what I’m very familiar with tbh, but it’s fun to use.




How much can you thin a 1303? Those are already lasers.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

tostadas said:


> How much can you thin a 1303? Those are already lasers.


Like this.


----------



## tostadas

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Like this.


Oooh that looks like a fun knife. Looks like you just thinned maybe 1inch around the edge?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

tostadas said:


> Oooh that looks like a fun knife. Looks like you just thinned maybe 1inch around the edge?


Yes. It's pretty thin overall already so it didn't take me much time to make it a little thinner behind the edge.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Like this.


Widow(er)maker


----------



## IsoJ

I decided to do a little comparison with some of my knives with 2 knives that I borrowed from @Carl Kotte. This isn't actually a wedging test, just shooting videos while doing prep for the grill at home. All the knives in the videos are 53mm tall or more at the heel. Originally I was planned to show these to @Carl Kotte but I needed to create a YouTube channel cause I cutted so damn slow  and all the videos are over 1 minute, so what the heck, just as well I can share it here too. This isn't a knife skills performance, so bare with me. I was trying to focus about how the ease of cutting in hand differs from knife to knife and I hope at least some will show in the videos too. I cut potatoes too, and those are uploading there too, so...

Knives:
Kamon 265*60
Catcheside 260*60
Watanabe 270*60
HVB 240*58
Sab 337g
Comet 230*58
Mazaki 245*53
Tsourkan 240*54
Yu Kurosaki chuka
Isasmedjan 250*57

All the gyutos weight over 250gr, so no lasers here.









Cutting carrots


If you are looking for cutting skills demo and speed, please skip this. Cutting carrots with different knives. All the knives heel 53mm or taller. And yes I ...




www.youtube.com


----------



## SolidSnake03

Nice work! The Kamon looked to be the only one that cut as smooth and effortlessly as the Mazaki and Wat. The Yu Chuka was nice too


----------



## IsoJ

SolidSnake03 said:


> Nice work! The Kamon looked to be the only one that cut as smooth and effortlessly as the Mazaki and Wat. The Yu Chuka was nice too


The Kamon I could little bit more force compared with Wat or Catcheside. Especially the Wat is so thin that I need to remind myself of using very little force cause otherwise it tends to stick in the board. Kurosaki chuka is a very fun knife


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## SolidSnake03

Nice! Yeah that sounds about right based upon my usage of those brands as well. Haven't used Kamon but used/own Catcheside, Wat, Mazaki so gives me a good frame of reference


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## captaincaed

IsoJ said:


> I decided to do a little comparison with some of my knives with 2 knives that I borrowed from @Carl Kotte. This isn't actually a wedging test, just shooting videos while doing prep for the grill at home. All the knives in the videos are 53mm tall or more at the heel. Originally I was planned to show these to @Carl Kotte but I needed to create a YouTube channel cause I cutted so damn slow  and all the videos are over 1 minute, so what the heck, just as well I can share it here too. This isn't a knife skills performance, so bare with me. I was trying to focus about how the ease of cutting in hand differs from knife to knife and I hope at least some will show in the videos too. I cut potatoes too, and those are uploading there too, so...
> 
> Knives:
> Kamon 265*60
> Catcheside 260*60
> Watanabe 270*60
> HVB 240*58
> Sab 337g
> Comet 230*58
> Mazaki 245*53
> Tsourkan 240*54
> Yu Kurosaki chuka
> Isasmedjan 250*57
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cutting carrots
> 
> 
> If you are looking for cutting skills demo and speed, please skip this. Cutting carrots with different knives. All the knives heel 53mm or taller. And yes I ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com


Oh man thanks for doing this. Not many people do such a great comparison set of videos. 

That Kamon looks quite fun...


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## ma_sha1

Amazing videos, I got lost, don’t remember who’s who. How about a simple ranking A>B>C... for us laymen’s?

The Isasmedjan was cracking pretty loud, was it that bad? I am on the waiting list, need to know.


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## Carl Kotte

Isa is solid @ma_sha1 - No need to worry! I doubt it Will have to meet your grinders.


----------



## IsoJ

The Isasmedjan isnt that bad. It needs some thinning behind the edge allthought and the HVB would benefit with some thinning too. My custom Isa is much thinner behind the edge and wedge much less. 

Ranking

Including potatoes

Performance 
1 Kamon, 
2 Wat, 
3 Catcheside 
4 Mazaki

Feeling 

1 Wat/Sabatier
2 Catcheside
3 Mazaki
4 Kamon


----------



## IsoJ

captaincaed said:


> Oh man thanks for doing this. Not many people do such a great comparison set of videos.
> 
> That Kamon looks quite fun...


Thank you. This was actually quite easy, just set mobilephone and start cutting stuff. Only time it took was to wash/wipe after cutting.


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## ma_sha1

IsoJ said:


> The Isasmedjan isnt that bad. It needs some thinning behind the edge allthought and the HVB would benefit with some thinning too. My custom Isa is much thinner behind the edge and wedge much less.
> 
> Ranking
> 
> Including potatoes
> 
> Performance
> 1 Kamon,
> 2 Wat,
> 3 Catcheside
> 4 Mazaki
> 
> Feeling
> 
> 1 Wat/Sabatier
> 2 Catcheside
> 3 Mazaki
> 4 Kamon




Thanks! Looks like the 270 guys are out performing 240 guys, not surprising as a trend. The increased weight & height both helps I think.


----------



## IsoJ

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks! Looks like the 270 guys are out performing 240 guys, not surprising as a trend. The increased weight & height both helps I think.


Yes, the big boys won imo this one. The Sab while having some actual wedging was a big positive suprise. I can imagine that it would shine in prokitchen with massive preps. Heavy and having the fingerquard buth still really comfortable and good balance.


----------



## tostadas

IsoJ said:


> The Isasmedjan isnt that bad. It needs some thinning behind the edge allthought and the HVB would benefit with some thinning too. My custom Isa is much thinner behind the edge and wedge much less.
> 
> Ranking
> 
> Including potatoes
> 
> Performance
> 1 Kamon,
> 2 Wat,
> 3 Catcheside
> 4 Mazaki
> 
> Feeling
> 
> 1 Wat/Sabatier
> 2 Catcheside
> 3 Mazaki
> 4 Kamon



Which version of the Mazaki do you have? Do you have a choil shot available?


----------



## IsoJ

The Mazaki is bought end of last year from CKC. My favorite one so far. The choilshot isnt telling everything


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## Carl Kotte

I had the great pleasure to borrow the Kamon and the HVB from @IsoJ some time ago. I was impressed by both but fell in love (slightly and platonically) with hvb. It did need a little thinning but apart from that it felt pretty darn wonderful. I expected it to be placed very high in the ranking of this test. It didn’t. Why? Well, I guess that shows how great all other knives were (too) because the hvb was a joy to use. Great videos Jari!


----------



## IsoJ

Carl Kotte said:


> I had the great pleasure to borrow the Kamon and the HVB from @IsoJ some time ago. I was impressed by both but fell in love (slightly and platonically) with hvb. It did need a little thinning but apart from that it felt pretty darn wonderful. I expected it to be placed very high in the ranking of this test. It didn’t. Why? Well, I guess that shows how great all other knives were (too) because the hvb was a joy to use. Great videos Jari!


Thanks Calle. If I had to choose one knife from my "collection" which holds up the rought use, it would be HVB. It has some of the wedging but beside that it is a superb knife. A real kitchen plower .


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## Hz_zzzzzz

I received this Shibata about 2 hours ago. Get so excited and can't wait to try it immediately. It's the first time I use it and the profile is a little more curvy than I thought, so I might have just shown a scratch of its potential here, but overall I like it. It's like a beefy laser. Weigh like a beast but thin carrot slices stick to it like to a laser haha. I like it better than my previous Shibata R2 and AS 240s.


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## JDC

It looks some tweaks behind the edge will make the cutting smoother.


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## juice

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> It's like a beefy laser.


And I am like a fat thin person.


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## daveb

Die thread die.


Whoops


----------



## M1k3

daveb said:


> Die thread die.
> 
> 
> Whoops


Just pretend they're for mirepoix or going to be sous vide.


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## Kippington

IsoJ said:


> Performance
> 1 Kamon,
> 2 Wat,
> 3 Catcheside
> 4 Mazaki
> 
> Feeling
> 
> 1 Wat/Sabatier
> 2 Catcheside
> 3 Mazaki
> 4 Kamon


You should've had the two lists completely reverse each other, just to confuse everyone.


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## IsoJ

Kippington said:


> You should've had the two lists completely reverse each other, just to confuse everyone.


I tried to


----------



## adam92

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I received this Shibata about 2 hours ago. Get so excited and can't wait to try it immediately. It's the first time I use it and the profile is a little more curvy than I thought, so I might have just shown a scratch of its potential here, but overall I like it. It's like a beefy laser. Weigh like a beast but thin carrot slices stick to it like to a laser haha. I like it better than my previous Shibata R2 and AS 240s.



Good job, nice board


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## Hz_zzzzzz

Thanks. And you know how much I love my hasegawa. ; )


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## Carl Kotte

I’ll just leave this here.


----------



## IsoJ

Carl Kotte said:


> I’ll just leave this here.



Who cares about the wedging when it kills


----------



## Dhoff

It is like seeing someone cleave logs xD I love it!


----------



## Carl Kotte

It’s like a TF without the plastic ferrule.


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## RDalman

Dhoff said:


> It is like seeing someone cleave logs xD I love it!


Actually think my splitting axes are thinner.


----------



## Dhoff

It also has the advantage of not needing any force applied, the weight is plenty!

Gordon Ramsey said: "Let the knife do the work" and thus it was done!


----------



## Carl Kotte

Dhoff said:


> It also has the advantage of not needing any force applied, the weight is plenty!
> 
> Gordon Ramsey said: "Let the knife do the work" and thus it was done!


If only that were true of the Dickato....


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## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> I’ll just leave this here.


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 99719


You say one louder! I say: - not loud enough! You hear me?


----------



## esoo

Boredom breeds useless carrot murder



Kono FM 210 White 2
Kono HD2 210
Kono MM 210 Blue 2
Kono YS-M 210
Dalman Warikomi 230

These were my first ever cuts with the Dalman, so played a bit at the end.


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## juice

esoo said:


> These were my first ever cuts with the Dalman, so played a bit at the end.


#CorrectHandedFTW!

That Dalman is so hot #KnifePorn


----------



## Dull_Apex

juice said:


> #CorrectHandedFTW!
> 
> That Dalman is so hot #KnifePorn



Have you posted your Dalman yet? 



Up for branching into moving pictures?


----------



## juice

Dull_Apex said:


> Have you posted your Dalman yet?
> 
> Up for branching into moving pictures?


No, and yes


----------



## captaincaed




----------



## daveb

That vid should be the answer to the "difference between a 210 and 240?" that's been recently posed.


----------



## jacko9

daveb said:


> That vid should be the answer to the "difference between a 210 and 240?" that's been recently posed.


I assume that you're referring to the castincaed video above. I agree totally but, what knives are they?


----------



## captaincaed

daveb said:


> That vid should be the answer to the "difference between a 210 and 240?" that's been recently posed.


Ask your girlfriend

Also, the Yoshi is twice the weight of the petty. 171g vs 88g


----------



## captaincaed

jacko9 said:


> I assume that you're referring to the castincaed video above. I agree totally but, what knives are they?


Yoshikane and Bazes


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## SeattleB

captaincaed said:


> Yoshikane and Bazes



Which Yoshikane in your video? That seems like really smooth cutting.


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## captaincaed

SeattleB said:


> Which Yoshikane in your video? That seems like really smooth cutting.


SKD from Carbon Knife Co. Reaaalllly nice handle too. Grippy even wet. The edge was so thin, I wrecked it cutting onions on endgrain. I have never done that, ever. Now it has a sensible microbevel.


----------



## toddnmd

daveb said:


> That vid should be the answer to the "difference between a 210 and 240?" that's been recently posed.



Not exactly a fair match, as the 210 got the bigger end of the carrot. 
(Not that I’m a fan of 210s.)
I think being able to use most of the length makes an easier cut. Especially with a pull that takes advantage of the distal taper.


----------



## JDC

Yoshikane = performance grind (but a bit sticky)


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## Jason183

That Yoshikane SKD cuts amazingly smooth on carrot, I had a white2 Yoshikane but it wedges on tall carrot


----------



## Jville

The kono ys yoshikane are really good performers.


----------



## captaincaed

That last carrot was a little soft, repeated after a long soak.


----------



## SeattleB

What are your subjective impressions of the cutting action of the three knives?


----------



## captaincaed

SeattleB said:


> What are your subjective impressions of the cutting action of the three knives?


I just sold off four knives in part so I could afford one of these. I really like how Yoshi cuts. I've had a total of four and bought a couple for friends. I also had the Masashi, who worked at Yoshi until he branched out on his own. I haven't had a dud in the whole bunch. The spine is wide enough to be comfy, the edge is thin enough to be scary. The blade road is polished, and can be sticky if you don't get food above the shoulder line. I think if you wanted to change that behavior, buffing the blade road on something like a synthetic aoto would leave a nice contrast but rougher surface that would release easier. I've stopped caring quite so much about food release since I cook at home and don't need it like a production kitchen does.

I sold the Masashi in part because I like a slightly lower heel, and I bought SKD because I like sharpening it better than SLD (basically A2 vs. D2, respectively). After buying SLD for myself and SKD for friends, I decided I liked sharpening SKD better and switched.


----------



## Perzua

Nice thread guys.

Also Sukenari HAP40 210 cuts like there was nothing there.

Yoshida Hamono Nakiri ZDP-189 wedge heavily


----------



## panda

captaincaed said:


> I just sold off four knives in part so I could afford one of these. I really like how Yoshi cuts. I've had a total of four and bought a couple for friends. I also had the Masashi, who worked at Yoshi until he branched out on his own. I haven't had a dud in the whole bunch. The spine is wide enough to be comfy, the edge is thin enough to be scary. The blade road is polished, and can be sticky if you don't get food above the shoulder line. I think if you wanted to change that behavior, buffing the blade road on something like a synthetic aoto would leave a nice contrast but rougher surface that would release easier. I've stopped caring quite so much about food release since I cook at home and don't need it like a production kitchen does.
> 
> I sold the Masashi in part because I like a slightly lower heel, and I bought SKD because I like sharpening it better than SLD (basically A2 vs. D2, respectively). After buying SLD for myself and SKD for friends, I decided I liked sharpening SKD better and switched.


Masashi grind was pretty good, hated the steel and profile didn't work for me.


----------



## captaincaed

SLD/D2 is really not my favorite steel, but it works for some


----------



## labor of love

Perzua said:


> Nice thread guys.
> 
> Also Sukenari HAP40 210 cuts like there was nothing there.
> 
> Yoshida Hamono Nakiri ZDP-189 wedge heavily


I was checking out those sukenari hap 40s today actually. So enjoyable cutters?


----------



## Perzua

labor of love said:


> I was checking out those sukenari hap 40s today actually. So enjoyable cutters?



I cut two carrots at the same time and that was very enjoyable. Next week I will compare to Toyama. I really like HAP40


----------



## Carl Kotte

Make space, make space, Here’s the Dickato. 
The other two are giant Sab and Y Tanaka for reference.


----------



## Michi

labor of love said:


> I was checking out those sukenari hap 40s today actually. So enjoyable cutters?


I have a Sukenari 240 K-tip gyuto in HAP-40. I like using the knife. The grind is what I'd call "medium". Definitely not a laser, but not a workhorse either. Food release isn't brilliant because of the mirror polish. But it's a fine knife, and I use it regularly.

I've had the knife for over a year, and it still has its factory edge. Definitely holds its edge for a long time.


----------



## Dhoff

Michi said:


> I have a Sukenari 240 K-tip gyuto in HAP-40. I like using the knife. The grind is what I'd call "medium". Definitely not a laser, but not a workhorse either. Food release isn't brilliant because of the mirror polish. But it's a fine knife, and I use it regularly.
> 
> I've had the knife for over a year, and it still has its factory edge. Definitely holds its edge for a long time.
> View attachment 119473


nice photo, handle looks great!


----------



## Ceriano

ian said:


> This is not competition with Mack's video in any sense, but I was prepping some shepherd’s pie tonight using lamb that I murdered using a somewhat new Catcheside 180 from @ashy2classy, and thought that this thread was as good a place as any to post the vid, given the presence of carrots.
> 
> Note: I'm just screwing around here. I hadn't decided ahead of time how much of anything I was going to chop, or what shapes I was going to chop a given ingredient into, so the pace of the video is rather slow. But we all have time on our hands now, right?



Nice cutting board. Walnut BoardSmith?


----------



## big_adventure

Michi said:


> I have a Sukenari 240 K-tip gyuto in HAP-40. I like using the knife. The grind is what I'd call "medium". Definitely not a laser, but not a workhorse either. Food release isn't brilliant because of the mirror polish. But it's a fine knife, and I use it regularly.
> 
> I've had the knife for over a year, and it still has its factory edge. Definitely holds its edge for a long time.
> View attachment 119473



Amazing handle!

Yes, that's my call as well on Sukenari's grinds. Definitely "medium" - and very consistent from heel to just before the tip. Mine (240 hairline K-tip in ZDP) has a literally perfect convex grind with no variations. It's nearly inhumanly well-ground. I scratched the hairline when I slipped sharpening it, so I did a long sandpaper progression, and now it's got a near-mirror polish that looks pretty great next to the mix of ku and patina'd carbon on my gyuto strip. Food release is "OK." Wedging is "never."


----------



## ian

Ceriano said:


> Nice cutting board. Walnut BoardSmith?



$50 Acacia Ironwood Gourmet from China, unfortunately.


----------



## Perzua

Someone can say a word about Jiro ?


----------



## big_adventure

Perzua said:


> Someone can say a word about Jiro ?



Yes.


----------



## Checkpure

Perzua said:


> Someone can say a word about Jiro ?


Whatcha wanna know?


----------



## Perzua

ok. few words


----------



## Checkpure

I have a video of my cutting carrots by just pushing straight down with my Jiros and FM's but I'm breathing so embarrassingly loud in it I can't post it. I'll make another one when I get some medium sized carrots again and make sure to hold my breath or something. The Jiro's display display slight wedging/cracking when cutting carrots but in turn have the best food release. If I was doing a bunch of carrots I'd go for a laser type FM over the Jiros, but if I am doing a large batch of potatoes the Jiros can't be beat, the slices just release perfectly without any help.


----------



## AT5760

You can find more than a few words here:

Jiro Nakagawa - Initial Impressions of Western Handle 240mm Gyuto - Part1 






Jiro Nakagawa - Part2: Performance Initial Impressions


I have now had a chance to test the cutting performance of the Jiro 240mm Western handle gyuto that I wrote about previously. A very good friend asked me whether I can liken the performance of the blade to knives he would be familiar with. I thought about this for quite a bit and I cannot come...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com










Jiro 240mm gyuto (#057) first impressions


I recently picked up a Jiro 240mm gyuto (#057) from Strata. I know these are a controversial topic around here, but actual first-hand experiences with the knives are still pretty thin, so I thought I'd share mine! Disclaimer: I'm an intermediate amateur knife nerd at best, and in particular I...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com










Jiro Nakagawa #96 first thoughts


The listing from Hitohira (from whom I purchased): https://hitohira-japan.com/products/cma-000-096?_pos=111&_sid=43c5b024a&_ss=r&variant=33438998855815 Just in. Still not a ton of real world info on these so figured I would share my thoughts after a half day of testing, sharpening, and...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## mack

I did a new video - bad as always but some of my best knives in it



Mack


----------



## fritze

Nice video and even nicer knives!


----------



## captaincaed

mack said:


> I did a new video - bad as always but some of my best knives in it
> 
> 
> 
> Mack



Mack, thanks for contributing so many. Nice to see Uwe’s knives making an appearance, even if he is not here. I miss seeing him around.

How are you liking the Shihan in general? Looks very good in your video, and I’ve heard lots of good reviews from others. How do you like it in general for cooking?

Cheers


----------



## mack

@captaincaed 

Thanks for your kind words. I really like my Shihan. It's a typical workhorse, not that thin above the edge so you can use it for all the tasks in the kitchen. It is rather heavy which helps getting through all kinds of food. Moreover, I like the profile of the blade, the balance point is ~ 5cm in front of the handle. In general I really like the style, the handle looks nice and feels really comfortable in my hand but is maybe a little bit long for my rather small hands. A smaller handle would of course put the balance point more forward, which could become a problem for me. The steel (52100) is great on this knife. For explanation: I don't like that steel in general, there are steels which have more quality in my opinion, but Shihan knows how to heat treat his 52100, so absolutely nothing to complain. The blade takes a great edge, I stop sharpening with my Naniwa Professional 5K which puts a great toothy edge on it, which I prefer for kitchen work. Only thing I would change: For my taste the tip could be a little bit thinner. 

So all in all it is a knife which I can highly recommend.

Best,
Mack


----------



## captaincaed

Thanks Mack! Your experience sounds very similar to everyone I’ve heard from so far. I remember reading on his website that he is doing a deliberately different heat treat with 52100. It sounds like there is an American trend toward a very hard triple quench 52100. And Shihan decided to "leave some hardness on the table" in order to have a steel that felt more like a Japanese treatment. I'm a fan. 
Cheers


----------



## Garm

Those Uwe Mattern knives look like fantastic performers!
I'm not familiar with his work at all.


----------



## DrEriksson

Not a nice comparison video, but I felt like it might fit here. The Marius Smide is such a good knife.


----------

