# Why all the Shun hate?



## Ceriano (Jul 1, 2020)

I tried the 8" Shun classic chef knife at the store the other day and I really liked the fit and the finish. If Shun is overpriced at $120 what other better options are out there? Do knife people just hate them because they are generic?


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## M1k3 (Jul 1, 2020)

Weird balance. Flattish grind. Heat treatment of steels could be better.

Something like Masahiro, Masamoto or Takamura VG-10 or Chromax will be better performers in my opinion.

Shun does have the guarantee and sharpening aspect going for them though. If needed that is.


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## TSF415 (Jul 1, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> I tried the 8" Shun classic chef knife at the store the other day and I really liked the fit and the finish. If Shun is overpriced at $120 what other better options are out there? Do knife people just hate them because they are generic?



They are a huge pain in the arse to sharpen. There are quite a few knives in the $150 range that would blow it away. What knife depends on what you're looking for and for that you can fill out the questionnaire available and people on here will help guide you. I recommend a Takamura chromax for friends of mine.


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## parbaked (Jul 1, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> If Shun is overpriced at $120 what other better options are out there?



Any Misono...
Shun suck.


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## Ceriano (Jul 1, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> They are a huge pain in the arse to sharpen. There are quite a few knives in the $150 range that would blow it away. What knife depends on what you're looking for and for that you can fill out the questionnaire available and people on here will help guide you. I recommend a Takamura chromax for friends of mine.



I did fill out the questionnaire but I didn't get any response back  I had Takamura listed as one of the alternatives. There are not that many options sub $150. 
I do like the free sharpening service on Shun.






Which 8" chef Knife Should I Buy? Questionnaire - v2


LOCATION What country are you in? US - Richmond VA KNIFE TYPE What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? Chef Knife Are you right or left handed? Right Handed Are you interested in a Western handle...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Jul 1, 2020)

I've never hated on them and been here longer than most. Use a shun parer everyday.


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## parbaked (Jul 1, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> I do like the free sharpening service on Shun.



You pay postage so it's not free. Cheaper if you have a good local sharpener you can support....
There is no good reason to buy a Shun.


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## Nagakin (Jul 1, 2020)

My biggest issue is that they're fairly thick behind the edge and turn into hammers quickly. I don't know how my coworkers are using them, but it's definitely not just the factory edge that's chippy either. Together, that's a lot of labor and maintenance to keep it worse than the competition.


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## Ceriano (Jul 1, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Weird balance. Flattish grind. Heat treatment of steels could be better.
> 
> Something like Masahiro, Masamoto or Takamura VG-10 or Chromax will be better performers in my opinion.
> 
> Shun does have the guarantee and sharpening aspect going for them though. If needed that is.



I like Masamoto but the ones with Japanese/Wa handles are way above $200-$300.


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## Ceriano (Jul 1, 2020)

parbaked said:


> Any Misono...
> Shun suck.



Does Misono only do western handles?


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## M1k3 (Jul 1, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> I like Masamoto but the ones with Japanese/Wa handles are way above $200-$300.


I just equated Shun with wanting a western handle. Check out Tanaka? Kaeru?


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## daveb (Jul 1, 2020)

I'm not a fan. But I will cede that for their target market they are fine. They are housewife knives, marketed to housewives. They perform reasonably well when new and are pretty to look at. They are great for showing neighbors and friends. Ideally they will see about 8 hours use / year.

For someone who puts more demand on a knife they quickly become unsuitable. Sharpening them is a b**tch and is beyond the abilities of most of their customers. The "local" sharpener only has the grinder available and while he can grind a new, 60grit edge on the knife, any thinning will typically be beyond his skill. Any hand sharpening / thinning will quickly scuff hell out of that pretty blade.

Most of the Shun I've encountered are not sharp, are fat, and so terrible cutters. Wedge monster is not an unreasonable description. I've a friend I sharpen a couple knives for, a couple times a year but I told her up front they will not be pretty when I'm done. They don't suck but I wish she had gone with MAC or Misono. 

That said the 3.5" parer is a pretty solid little knife. I've also owned / used the 150mm petty they call a "utility" knife. That was my first Jknife.


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## TSF415 (Jul 1, 2020)

BST can also be your friend here and you can find a great knife that fits what youre looking for. Post a WTB thread. With the current state of the forum I think the price of 210mm's are at a low.


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## Ceriano (Jul 1, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I just equated Shun with wanting a western handle. Check out Tanaka? Kaeru?



So far these are the ones I could find under $200:
*Tanaka Kurouchi* Gyuto 210mm and *Takamura Chromax *both at $140. I'm new to the knife world and I understand they are charging money for the blades but I feel at these prices they are going kinda cheap on the handles.


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## parbaked (Jul 1, 2020)

daveb said:


> They don't suck but I wish she had gone with MAC or Misono.


I think they suck compared to any MAC or Misono...


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## daveb (Jul 1, 2020)

Should have been more clear. They don't suck because they're lightly thinned and sharpened on stones a couple times a year. Not many Shun can claim that. They do look like crap - I don't spend a lot of time on keeping knives pretty.


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## MowgFace (Jul 1, 2020)

The profile is what gets me. Granted, if I went to a friends house and they had Shuns I’d be stoked that they have better than most. 

In all honesty, if you really want a Shun, get a Shun. If you care enough about handles to sway your decision, then so be it. You may love it. 

Personally I’d take a shatty handle on a good performing blade, but I understand those who want a “showpiece” that also performs well. 

I’d imagine that many households would look at our patina’d knife with thinning scratches and never want something like that in their kitchen

F&F is going to be hard to come by at this price point.


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## Ceriano (Jul 1, 2020)

MowgFace said:


> The profile is what gets me. Granted, if I went to a friends house and they had Shuns I’d be stoked that they have better than most.
> 
> In all honesty, if you really want a Shun, get a Shun. If you care enough about handles to sway your decision, then so be it. You may love it.
> 
> ...



I actually do like the hand finishing and rustic look of Tanaka. I do wish they used a higher quality wood for their lower tier models.

Sorry for my ignorance but how much should I expect to spend on a decent Japanese knife? Is something like Takamura Chromax good enough for home cook or should I spend and extra 100-$200 get something more decent? There are way more options sub $300.


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## Blerghle (Jul 1, 2020)

Just over $200 here: Tanaka Blue 2 Gyuto 210mm Migaki Finish (that's carbon, they also have stainless/ginsanko). A Takamura Chromax or a MAC Pro or really any of the knives mentioned above are plenty good. Rather than spending more on the knife, I think most people would recommend saving some money to get some basic sharpening supplies and learning to put an edge on it. That will make for a far greater boost to performance than spending more on the knife.

I haven't tried to sharpen a Shun but I still remember trying to sharpen a coworker's Global. Woof. I think more than anything else, difficult sharpening results in the most negative feedback here.


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## YumYumSauce (Jul 1, 2020)

They're okay when maintenance is kept up. Asthetics wise they look tacky to me. I'd rather get a mac.


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## Ceriano (Jul 1, 2020)

Blerghle said:


> Just over $200 here: Tanaka Blue 2 Gyuto 210mm Migaki Finish (that's carbon, they also have stainless/ginsanko). A Takamura Chromax or a MAC Pro or really any of the knives mentioned above are plenty good. Rather than spending more on the knife, I think most people would recommend saving some money to get some basic sharpening supplies and learning to put an edge on it. That will make for a far greater boost to performance than spending more on the knife.
> 
> I haven't tried to sharpen a Shun but I still remember trying to sharpen a coworker's Global. Woof. I think more than anything else, difficult sharpening results in the most negative feedback here.



Does Ginsan hold edge as good as Chromax or should I just stick with B-2 with the Tanaka knives?


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## parbaked (Jul 1, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> Does Ginsan hold edge as good as Chromax?



In theory Chromax will hold edge longer and Ginsan will be easier to sharpen but IMO both are really good all around steels.


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## Blerghle (Jul 1, 2020)

I have no experience with Chromax. Tanaka ginsan sharpens up easily for stainless. Blue 2 will take a keener edge and would be my choice among all of these, but it's fully reactive carbon, so almost a different category.


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## Ryndunk (Jul 1, 2020)

I really don't think shun is hard to sharpen. To me the issue is they are thick behind the edge, and the terrible profile. The steel is to chippy for the masses they are marketed too. The grind isn't good enough for those who know better. It's really is an unhappy medium with just enough bling and fit and finish to keep the sales going.


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## Ceriano (Jul 1, 2020)

parbaked said:


> In theory Chromax will hold edge longer and Ginsan will be easier to sharpen but IMO both are really good all around steels.


 How do you compare mac vs takamura chromax? Other than the look is there any reason to pick Mac over takamura? Of all 3 I like the look of Tanaka the most but the one I like costs almost twice as much as the chromax.


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## panda (Jul 1, 2020)

because they're trash knives, no explanation necessary.


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## tostadas (Jul 2, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> Does Ginsan hold edge as good as Chromax or should I just stick with B-2 with the Tanaka knives?



I also posted in your questionnaire thread, but this one seems to have all the cool kids in it. You mentioned in that thread that you want a stainless knife. Are you open to non-stainless carbon knives? That would open up a lot more options. Blue and white steels are non-stainless carbon steel.


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## Barashka (Jul 2, 2020)

Shun has it's place, as does Miyabi and zKramers.

At 30% off they become quite fine knives for the money, maybe not the stellar performers people want them to be, but lifetime sharpening and no questions asked returns etc, is worth something to people. You just have to understand you are not paying purely for perf.

There's also eye candy ... yeh similar or cheaper knives might have equal or mildly better perf, but life is too short to use an ugly knife. I've certainly bought something more expensive just so it's nicer to look at, knowing full well a boring looking knife will outperform it. I'm pretty sure most people here are guilty of that.


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## captaincaed (Jul 2, 2020)

I dated a girl at Sur la Table and wanted to get in her pants. So, for Jknives, Shun was my first.


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## Ceriano (Jul 2, 2020)

tostadas said:


> I also posted in your questionnaire thread, but this one seems to have all the cool kids in it. You mentioned in that thread that you want a stainless knife. Are you open to non-stainless carbon knives? That would open up a lot more options. Blue and white steels are non-stainless carbon steel.



how quick do they rust? Do they rust or they just develop a hard patina? I own a couple of knives of Alaska (D2 steel) never had any issues with the rust. I also have a few cheap mora knives that I intentionally left in lemon juice and mustard to create a hard patina.


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## Matus (Jul 2, 2020)

daveb said:


> ... I've also owned / used the 150mm petty they call a "utility" knife. That was my first Jknife.



Shun is a real enabler  150 'utility' knife was also my first J-knife.


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## Unstoppabo (Jul 2, 2020)

Shun's are like the Chinese takeout of cutlery. They took some of the better features of Japanese knives (harder steel, lower edge angle, thinner blade) and combined it with a German profile and construction (heavy handle, bolster!) because that's what the mass market expects on 'high-end' knives. Then they wrapped it all up with a Japanese 'inspired' design aesthetic and let the marketing team go crazy. The result is a product that prioritizes looks and profits ahead of authenticity and pure performance. It's fat behind the edge to be a bit less fragile and most of the knives we love would chip a lot worse if subjected to the abuse most Shun's are subjected to.

Compared to the other commercial options 20 years ago (Global yuck), Shun's represented a big step in the right direction and as much as we hate on them, they probably did more than anyone to raise awareness for Japanese cutlery. I know there were other Japanese brands in the states before Shun but they were more pro oriented and tbh, although I like the Misono UX10/Mac's/etc., I'm not a fan of western handled Japanese knives. IMHO the traditional, relatively light wooden handle is one of the key design features of Japanese cutlery because it results in a blade heavy balance point that performs better. If you feel more comfortable with a western style handle, the Chromax looks nice and other affordable options you may want to look into include Carbonext and Tojiro. 

The only Shun I've ever owned is a Blue Kiritsuke I got on clearance ($170 for the 8 inch). Although it doesn't get much use now, the blue steel core is easy to sharpen and takes a scary sharp edge. OOTB it was also super thin behind the edge (slight hollow grind) and the rest of the grind was pretty good. The Shun customer probably wasn't ready for a reactive core or hollow grind, which is probably why they discontinued the line, but I think it was a good buy. That mirror finish is damn flashy but still brings a smile to my face. It was also one of the few stainless clad carbon knifes on the market when it came out 5-6 years ago so a bit innovative. Maybe they were trying to appeal to more knife nuts with this one.


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## Michi (Jul 2, 2020)

I have used only one Shun knife ever. That's the 210 mm SG-2 Shun Hiro I bought early on, when I got interested in Japanese knives. Since then, I've added quite a few more, including a Masamoto KS, a Sukenari HAP-40, a Yoshikane SLD, a Hideo Kitaoka white #2, two Takeshi Saji blue #2, plus others.

All of these are good knives, in my opinion. And I still reach for the Shun Hiro a lot. It's a seriously good knife. Good balance, good profile for things where I want a bit more belly, razor sharp, easy to sharpen, good food separation. I have absolutely no complaints about this knife, and I would let several others go before letting go of the Shun.

Yes, it's mass-produced. Yes, it has zero sex appeal. Yes, it has zero collector's value. But it's a knife that works well. Which is what I care about the most when I need to deal with a bunch of tomatoes or chillis, or a hard lump of parmesan…


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## Twigg (Jul 2, 2020)

I own one Shun, a "Shun Classic 6" Gokujo Boning Fillet Knife". It looks cool. It is a PITA to sharpen and keep sharp. I do not like it. I really am not sure what to do with it anymore as it just sits there. It would be mean to give it to someone. I have never purchased or even tried another knife with VG-10 or VG-MAX after getting my Shun (first experience with the steel). I have read that Kurosaki's & Yamamoto's VG-10 heat treats are very good, but I have yet to try either. Perhaps it is unfair, but Shun has made me very hesitant to ever try a VG-10 knife again. I know that is probably silly, but I have yet to get past it.


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## Michi (Jul 2, 2020)

I own a Böker Urban Trapper, which is VG-10. It's sharp, but not easy to sharpen. On the other hand, edge retention is good, so I don't have to deal with it all that often.

The only other VG-10 I have owned is a Kurosaki Fujin 165 mm santoku. That one was scary sharp. But I sold it again before it ever needed sharpening. It was too thin and laser-ish for my taste. I really didn't like those "ping" sounds it made on the board if I torqued it even the slightest bit while cutting. But, if you are into lasers, that knife will definitely do it for you.


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## DitmasPork (Jul 2, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> I tried the 8" Shun classic chef knife at the store the other day and I really liked the fit and the finish. If Shun is overpriced at $120 what other better options are out there? Do knife people just hate them because they are generic?



"...people just hate them..."
Depends on which "people" you're referring to! Some "people" love Shun knives, I know a "people" that're big Shun fans—comes down to personal preference. I'm not a big fan—too shiny, too common for my tastes.


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## Corradobrit1 (Jul 2, 2020)

I'd take a Shun over a Chelsea Miller


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## tostadas (Jul 2, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> how quick do they rust? Do they rust or they just develop a hard patina? I own a couple of knives of Alaska (D2 steel) never had any issues with the rust. I also have a few cheap mora knives that I intentionally left in lemon juice and mustard to create a hard patina.



It depends on the maker. But if you are used to dealing with other types of carbon steel knives, in general it's not much of an issue after initial patina develops. Just wash it when you're done using it, and intermittently if you're dealing with highly acidic foods.


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## drsmp (Jul 2, 2020)

The Shuns are quite prone to chipping. If you want to get a mass produced but much better quality knife I’d go with a Miyabi. Takamura , Yoshikane and Kurosaki are hard to beat. A little patience or a WTB on the BST would get the most bang for the buck


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## SeattleBen (Jul 2, 2020)

If you already own and haven't destroyed a carbon steel knife you'll be fine with any of the above listed knives.


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## Ceriano (Jul 2, 2020)

SeattleBen said:


> If you already own and haven't destroyed a carbon steel knife you'll be fine with any of the above listed knives.



I baby them more than my other hunting knives but I’ve never had any issues with rust or pitting.


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## Honerabi (Jul 2, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> I tried the 8" Shun classic chef knife at the store the other day and I really liked the fit and the finish. If Shun is overpriced at $120 what other better options are out there? Do knife people just hate them because they are generic?



The Shun 8" Classic was my introduction to Japanese style knives. I have since acquired several of the Kanji line, and the Zwilling Bob Kramer chefs knives. 

IMHO, I think people on this forum turn their noses up at Shun because they are mass produced, and are made of stainless steel. The "purists" go for the hand-made knives from high-carbon steel. This type of steel is able to achive a much sharper edge, and retain it longer than stainless steel. However, it does rust. You have to be dedicated to maintaining the knife(s). 

I'm just getting going in the custom Japanese knives. The metallurgy is fascinating (VG10, white and blue steels, aogami super blue). And then there are the families involved in the forging. Have fun!


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## MowgFace (Jul 2, 2020)

Honerabi said:


> IMHO, I think people on this forum turn their noses up at Shun because they are mass produced, and are made of stainless steel. The "purists" go for the hand-made knives from high-carbon steel. This type of steel is able to achive a much sharper edge, and retain it longer than stainless steel. However, it does rust. You have to be dedicated to maintaining the knife(s).



While i think your point is valid, many of us here have stainless steel knives and love them. I turn my nose up to any knife that has features that i do not care for. A crappy profile, for one, is an absolute deal breaker for me. I would happily use their 7" Japanese Chef knife, which is just a 180 gyuto. 

I think ignoring the fact that many box store knives appeal to aesthetics over long term maintenance and performance will make a new comer here think there is something wrong with Shun. There is not, but they put value in many aspects of a knife that those in this community do not agree with. More accurately we are not the target demographic of Shun. 

People in this forum and forums/communities like this one are the pioneers of what the market is turning into. When i got into the knife game almost a decade ago i would have NEVER expected to see Jikko or Murray Carter Brand knives sold at Cultery and more. They are listening.


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## kayman67 (Jul 2, 2020)

The reality is that they aren't all that bad. With some, I had the surprise to outperform at cutting even knives with a lot of praise for their geometry. What's funny, though, I think none of them are still in production. Hm.


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## kayman67 (Jul 2, 2020)

Michi said:


> I own a Böker Urban Trapper, which is VG-10. It's sharp, but not easy to sharpen. On the other hand, edge retention is good, so I don't have to deal with it all that often.
> 
> The only other VG-10 I have owned is a Kurosaki Fujin 165 mm santoku. That one was scary sharp. But I sold it again before it ever needed sharpening. It was too thin and laser-ish for my taste. I really didn't like those "ping" sounds it made on the board if I torqued it even the slightest bit while cutting. But, if you are into lasers, that knife will definitely do it for you.


Most guys using VG10 pocket knives were really pleased with them and consider VG10 a very well balanced alloy for the job.


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## Barmoley (Jul 2, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> Most guys using VG10 pocket knives were really pleased with them and consider VG10 a very well balanced alloy for the job.


Shun screwed up early heat treat of VG10. I don't know about now, but when they first came to market and became popular they were very chippy and not just because people didn't know what they were buying. There was some of that too. I was very careful with them and so were a few friends I gifted them to. I sharpened them myself so can't blame factory edge either, even though that was burnt on many of them as well. They just chipped whatever I did. Had to make edges much thicker more obtuse to prevent it, but then they didn't cut as well. So yes we here are arrogant about knives, but bad knives are still bad. If I wanted a relatively inexpensive stainless or almost stainless, I'd take a look at Gesshin stainless, gonbei AUS-10, Gesshin Uraku stainless, Kaeru stainless, or tanaka ginsan, there are others too just depends on preference and budget.


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## kayman67 (Jul 2, 2020)

Well, you said it. But then again, something as thin as a SRS15 Takamura has very low changes of survival in the hands of someone that just got into this kind of knives. So, is the alloy bad?


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## Barmoley (Jul 2, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> Well, you said it. But then again, something as thin as a SRS15 Takamura has very low changes of survival in the hands of someone that just got into this kind of knives. So, is the alloy bad?


No alloy used in knives is bad. I'll ignore just horrible knives made out of inappropriate steels, but even then most steels usually used for knives can make good knives. VG-10 or SG that shun uses are fine steels. Shun's early treatment of VG-10 was bad. Clearly it was good enough for Shun to dominate and become a very successful company, but we are on this forum for a reason and to discriminating users Shun knives are not the best for the money in most cases.


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## ModRQC (Jul 2, 2020)

My two cents about one point of this discussion: someone said that to Shun there are higher quality alternatives of similar pricing, mentioning Miyabi amongst others.

I’m currently in the process of a second exchange towards a Miyabi 4000FC 8 in. Gyuto.

Choil shot of the first unit - ‘nuff said:






spinal shot of the second unit - ´nuff said:





My Miyabi Shotoh has some of the bolster deformation we can see on both above shots. Happily enough the blade doesn’t shoot off direction nor present with a deformed grind. My two Diplômes also have more or less minor faults: the Gyuto shoots slightly to the right, though in this instance not enough to cause problem and barely noticeable, the blue bands on the Santoku handle are inconsistent and jagged at places - couldn’t care less about it but still.

My point being: even a handmade forge welded clad like my Moritaka doesn’t have such major faults that it would be pretty much unusable like the two Miyabi Gyutos. Even where it doesn’t have the most regulat grind, and where it does have a ton of minor imperfections. Other J knives I had were pretty much faultless and with only little lovely imperfections that added to character.

I long thought that buying a manufactured knife Vs. genuine handmade wad a tradeoff from f&f and just well-treated typical SS steels to better steels sometimes even heat treated superbly, and better balance and better profiles or choice thereof.

I’m not sure right now I would still go with the assumption of a better F&F for manufactured knives, unless proven otherwise. Misono for example don’t seem to ever fail a knife by that much a margin. Shun on the other hand is one I heard enough reports of that they might - and I think almost single-handedly make for such a poor appreciation for VG-10 around these parts - where when you’ll read it’s hard to sharpen, it pretty much always seems to be a Shun knife.


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## kayman67 (Jul 2, 2020)

The heck? Hm. I own one. Except a stupid idea not to finish the entire top and spine in one go (for some unknown reason, looks like crap), mine is just perfect. What I don't understand about them is who ever decided to pair a nice light blade with such a heavy handle. They feel like 2 different knives in one. Opportunity missed, I guess, for a very nimble knife. There is absolutely no balance to speak of.


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## LostHighway (Jul 2, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> how quick do they rust? Do they rust or they just develop a hard patina? I own a couple of knives of Alaska (D2 steel) never had any issues with the rust. I also have a few cheap mora knives that I intentionally left in lemon juice and mustard to create a hard patina.



D2 is a tool steel with about 12% chromium so it almost meets the standard for stainless. In Japanese knives SLD or SKD11 (Hitachi steels) are both very, very similar to D2. Japanese carbon steels like Hitachi Shirogami and Aogami do not contain chromium and are more reactive. Ginsan is about 14% chromium so even more stain resistant than D2.


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## TSF415 (Jul 2, 2020)

I think people confuse turning their "nose up to something" with someone actually having a knowledgable view of something. I have/had shuns and I don't think less of people who have shuns but that doesn't mean I think they are good knives. For someone with a 20percent coupon to bed bath and beyond who is insisting on purchasing from there, I would recommend shun over Wusthoff. But for someone who asks for a recommendation for a good budget knife, I wouldn't recommend shun. 

I'd eat a par-baked frozen pizza if there was nothing else available but I most definitely would prefer a hand tossed fresh pie.


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## Ceriano (Jul 2, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> I think people confuse turning their "nose up to something" with someone actually having a knowledgable view of something. I have/had shuns and I don't think less of people who have shuns but that doesn't mean I think they are good knives. For someone with a 20percent coupon to bed bath and beyond who is insisting on purchasing from there, I would recommend shun over Wusthoff. But for someone who asks for a recommendation for a good budget knife, I wouldn't recommend shun.
> 
> I'd eat a par-baked frozen pizza if there was nothing else available but I most definitely would prefer a hand tossed fresh pie.



I got lucky that 20%coupon didn’t work the other day!


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## Benuser (Jul 2, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> D2 is a tool steel with about 12% chromium so it almost meets the standard for stainless. In Japanese knives SLD or SKD11 (Hitachi steels) are both very, very similar to D2. Japanese carbon steels like Hitachi Shirogami and Aogami do not contain chromium and are more reactive. Ginsan is about 14% chromium so even more stain resistant than D2.


The different Aogami steels do contain some Cr. Whether that's related or not, they aren't specially reactive, compared to less charged carbons.


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## Ceriano (Jul 2, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> D2 is a tool steel with about 12% chromium so it almost meets the standard for stainless. In Japanese knives SLD or SKD11 (Hitachi steels) are both very, very similar to D2. Japanese carbon steels like Hitachi Shirogami and Aogami do not contain chromium and are more reactive. Ginsan is about 14% chromium so even more stain resistant than D2.



thanks this is great info! What about stainless clad? Is it more corrosion resistant? This is the knife I’m look at in particular:

Wakui Gyuto White 2 stainless clad kurouchi Nashiji finish









Wakui Gyuto White 2 Stainless Clad Kurouchi Nashiji Finish


This is Wakui White 2 Stainless Clad, Kurouchi Nashiji Finish. Measurements: 210 mm Weight 188 g Total Length 362 mm Tip to Heel Length 211 mm Blade Height at Heel 46 mm Width of Spine Above Heel 3.2 mm Width of Spine at Middle of Blade 2.1 mm Width of Spine at about 1cm From the Tip 0.9...



knivesandstones.us


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## Honerabi (Jul 2, 2020)

Michi said:


> I have used only one Shun knife ever. That's the 210 mm SG-2 Shun Hiro I bought early on, when I got interested in Japanese knives. Since then, I've added quite a few more, including a Masamoto KS, a Sukenari HAP-40, a Yoshikane SLD, a Hideo Kitaoka white #2, two Takeshi Saji blue #2, plus others.
> 
> All of these are good knives, in my opinion. And I still reach for the Shun Hiro a lot. It's a seriously good knife. Good balance, good profile for things where I want a bit more belly, razor sharp, easy to sharpen, good food separation. I have absolutely no complaints about this knife, and I would let several others go before letting go of the Shun.
> 
> Yes, it's mass-produced. Yes, it has zero sex appeal. Yes, it has zero collector's value. But it's a knife that works well. Which is what I care about the most when I need to deal with a bunch of tomatoes or chillis, or a hard lump of parmesan…


I've been on the verge of picking up the 10" Shun Hiro. Have had the bread slicer for a few months. It is a beautiful knife. It's just very heavy forward. 
Am going down the rabbit-hole of custom Japanese pieces. The Aogami Super Blue is interesting.


----------



## P.Smash (Jul 2, 2020)

Compared to most of the knives used by the general population of the entire world (Walmart kitchen knife block set) they are freaking top fuel dragsters on the cutting board. I have a couple that I bought when I first got into this awful addiction and every time I let my buddies use them they are always blown away. That said I rarely use them anymore, they’re a great affordable beater knife to me....IMO


----------



## ModRQC (Jul 2, 2020)

May I enquire why all the love for Mac - rather expensive molybdenum vanadium steel with the MTH-80 having dimples very near the edge...?


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 2, 2020)

Because Macs are cool, to start with  
If anyone has a Shun, it's just not cool. And I could add a few more. 






Zwilling J.A. Henckels Pro Traditional Chef's Knife, 8" | Williams Sonoma







www.williams-sonoma.com





The price for this baby is for me impossible to understand.


----------



## ModRQC (Jul 2, 2020)

Yeah I know the german stuff is expensive for no good reason, but I’m still looking for a serious answer about the Mac - and also my comparison for price was more towards the 100$-150$ CAD price for on top of my head Misono / Sakai Molybdenum among a fair amount of other makers as well vs around the 200$ mark of a Mac.


----------



## tostadas (Jul 2, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> thanks this is great info! What about stainless clad? Is it more corrosion resistant? This is the knife I’m look at in particular:
> 
> Wakui Gyuto White 2 stainless clad kurouchi Nashiji finish
> 
> ...



The core steel is white 2 carbon. It's covered in a layer of stainless steel. The stainless layer covers probably 90% of the knife surface, from the spine down. The stainless cladding will prevent rust on that portion. So you only have the little portion along the edge that is exposed carbon steel.

Downside is if you like the look of patina on your blade, the stainless will not patina. Also thinning takes longer because of the soft stainless being tougher to abrade. Not an issue if you don't plan on thinning.


----------



## bingo (Jul 2, 2020)

Shuns are fine. They're better than what 95% of people have in their houses. The people here are self-selecting to be beyond the top 1% of kitchen knife owners. It's not like the other 99% starve and can't cut things with their knives. They have their place. The first knife I bought 10 years ago was a shun 8" that I still have. 

And it is what I give to people to chop lettuce, cut bell peppers, etc. They constantly remark about how sharp it is. It's mostly because they are knife barbarians who wouldn't blink at taking a blade to a glass cutting board. But ya know? gotta choose your battles. Otherwise they're fine people, and I don't want to be the weird uncle that rants about knives all the time.


----------



## tostadas (Jul 2, 2020)

[deleted]


----------



## Ceriano (Jul 2, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> Because Macs are cool, to start with
> If anyone has a Shun, it's just not cool. And I could add a few more.
> 
> 
> ...



can I have MACs sharpened with a tormek? or they chip too?


----------



## bingo (Jul 2, 2020)

This is mine. It's not horrible by any standard


----------



## Honerabi (Jul 2, 2020)

P.Smash said:


> Compared to most of the knives used by the general population of the entire world (Walmart kitchen knife block set) they are freaking top fuel dragsters on the cutting board. I have a couple that I bought when I first got into this awful addiction and every time I let my buddies use them they are always blown away. That said I rarely use them anymore, they’re a great affordable beater knife to me....IMO


"This awful addiction". Yeah man, I'm falling into it. Spending an awful lot of time researching the alloy types (Aogami Super Blue!), the knife types (yanigaba will break me), the various knife centers and the generations of blacksmiths. Should just cut up the plastic right now! Thought I was out of it with the German style knives (Henckels, Wustof, F. Dick, Forschner, Solingen, Victorinox, Messermeister, Dexter Russell), and now the Japanese knife rabbit hole. Have over 30 of them. 
Should have just picked up a set of Cutco and be done with it!!!


----------



## panda (Jul 2, 2020)

miyabi are trash too. I rather use an ikea knife.


----------



## labor of love (Jul 2, 2020)

Did anyone already go through all the better knives available for the price of shun? 
TBH I’d rather use dexter or even forschner instead.


----------



## bingo (Jul 3, 2020)

Elitism and saying to folks that they make bad decisions about their knives is a wonderful way to bring more people to the hobby


----------



## labor of love (Jul 3, 2020)

Honesty is the best policy.


----------



## panda (Jul 3, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Honestly is the best policy.


x100000
some people just like being told what they want to hear instead of the truth..


----------



## Dendrobatez (Jul 3, 2020)

They're bad. If any of you like yours thats fine, there's a lot of Facebook chef groups that'll agree with you. 
My biggest gripe is their HT, you can easily bend/warp their classic series at the bolster and spine during professional usage. Their edge and grind is weird and very prone to massive "chips", I have no grip with their handles when they get any kind of moisture or fat on them. This is me telling you why I wouldn't buy one and why I'd rather buy a better used knife, a $30 mercer, or a tojiro white steel at half the price.


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 3, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> can I have MACs sharpened with a tormek? or they chip too?


I would not use Tormek on anything, but that's just me. Coming from someone with first hand experience (I admit that cbn change something for the better, but still wouldn't solve the system itself). Also the chipping was never a problem with any of them. But long ago I started to consider best possible edge for the job and the knife. So it's very different than nail/hammer approach most people employ.


----------



## Kippington (Jul 3, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> spinal shot of the second unit - ´nuff said:



It's thin San-Mai yeah? Have you considered simply bending it straight?


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 3, 2020)

bingo said:


> Elitism and saying to folks that they make bad decisions about their knives is a wonderful way to bring more people to the hobby


Yeah, don't see a Kato or Shigefusa in your future.


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 3, 2020)

So, if anything, we should make a movement. Everyone should own a Shun Classic! 
This would be win win on an epic scale.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 3, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> So, if anything, we should make a movement. Everyone should own a Shun Classic!
> This would be win win on an epic scale.


I own a tipped and badly repaired, not by me, Sora, does that count?


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 3, 2020)

Well, it will have to do. For now. 

If I think of it, I don't have any at the moment. Shame. Shame. Shame. 
There are a few I would actually buy. 

This reminded me of all those broken tips on absolutely any knife that some guys always managed to do well beyond my understanding.


----------



## Blerghle (Jul 3, 2020)

The MAC Pro used to be less expensive. They are pretty well finished as far as handle and such, I believe, and have reasonably good geometry. The steel is nothing to write home about, but it's not noticeably bad like early model chippy Shuns or spongy Globals. I've only had passing, years-ago experience with the gyuto. As there are people currently making recs for other knives that are less expensive, I would go with those at today's prices.


----------



## daveb (Jul 3, 2020)

One of my cooks swore by his MACs and let me use one. I could pick it up, felt good, well balanced, etc and push cut with it all day. He was a rocker and could rock all day. I came across an 8" Pro, well priced and picked it up - great knife for grabbing a knife, doing anything with it, loaning to cooks or guests at home. 

But when I wanted to get the 10" I realized for the price of new I could go with Uraku or something similar. I'll still pick up one used if price is right but.....


----------



## Barmoley (Jul 3, 2020)

bingo said:


> Elitism and saying to folks that they make bad decisions about their knives is a wonderful way to bring more people to the hobby


I hope you are not suggesting we should lie to make people feel better. If a knife works for you, great. If you are here to get recommendations or opinions then toughen up, no need to get upset if someone disagrees with you.


----------



## daveb (Jul 3, 2020)

bingo said:


> Elitism and saying to folks that they make bad decisions about their knives is a wonderful way to bring more people to the hobby



The opening question was "why the hate?" The responses made for a pretty reasonable answer - they were descriptions of objective shortcomings. If the question is "Does this knife make me look fat?" then your asking the wrong crowd.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy (Jul 3, 2020)

bingo said:


> Elitism and saying to folks that they make bad decisions about their knives is a wonderful way to bring more people to the hobby


Welcome to the internet.

Thought I should add I'm part of 5 other hobbiest forums and this forum is the nicest.


----------



## GoldCoastMitch (Jul 3, 2020)

I’m an avid home cook, not a pro. This is probably an important demographic for this forum. Like countless other non-professionals I just never knew that high end knives existed until my interest grew to the point where I searched for a forum like this. 

Shun marketing “got to me” about eight years ago. Unfortunately, as so many members have said here, I loved the knives (not knowing anything better), but soon discovered their flaws. Funny as you might think, I am left handed and didn’t find out that my Shuns all had specific handles made for right hand use until well after I started using them. Still, I kept them and used them with decent results


Within just two years a minor kitchen mishap caused several knives to clatter to the floor. Two of Shuns suffered major chips, rendering them mostly useless. Over time the knives have dulled and I wasn’t going to dare try my electric sharpener. I’m aware of their free sharpening service, but thought they had discontinued that a while ago. Can anyone set me straight on that?

I became active here to learn how to sharpen all of my knives, many western and my few Shuns. Thankfully, you have provided me with the confidence to buy Chosera 400, 800, 3000 and Atoma 140 and SG320. I have started to use just the Chosera 800 first and had very promising results, but only on western knives. I’m too petrified to attempt the Shuns.

The next stop for me is to buy a respectable Japanese knife. Been looking at MAC’s for a while. But being as this thread is dedicated to Shun, what should I do with mine? I have six of them. Two are serrated. The 10” chef’s knife is a nice size but chipped. What is the best way to fix? Do I send to a good repair service or try myself?

Loving the forum. So many well informed members here. Thanks for your help.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 3, 2020)

Go at it with your 320 stone until the chips are gone. And thin behind the edge.


----------



## daveb (Jul 3, 2020)

Every now and then there is a thread about "What was your first J knife?" Overwhelmingly Shun was the entry or gateway point. 

As far as yours go, I would explore warranty options before I started a repair. Warranty replacement is part of the reason $50 knives cost $120.


----------



## parbaked (Jul 3, 2020)

Shun warranty and repair info:


https://shun.kaiusa.com/warranty/


----------



## ModRQC (Jul 3, 2020)

Kippington said:


> It's thin San-Mai yeah? Have you considered simply bending it straight?




Tried - perhaps not with enough strength but last thing I want is to break it right now.

Used it for one prep too. Reminds me of my Diplôme. Lighter and more central balance but pretty much a similar experience. Bolster not very comfortable so would need rounding a bit. Couldn’t decide if it was worth taking the risk to fix the bending.

Also different in my case is that the knife originally came this way. It’s one thing to accidentally bend a straight knife and know it should go back the other way without much hurt - another one to fix a new unit not knowing if it can withstand the procedure.

But @Kippington since you make knives do you believe this is doable with very minimal risks of breaking or somehow weakening the metal enough to introduce other kinds of problems?


----------



## soigne_west (Jul 3, 2020)

I'd just like to add I've personally had great customer service with Mac. Their US showroom is here in Sacramento, and although the warranty information provided on their website looks pretty basic, they've replace a shattered black honing rod and offered free repair work for a friend's Mac, no questions asked. I don't know what they cover in terms of 3rd party vendors, but should anyone ever have a problem with their Mac knife, you would be dealing with the same folks i did, And although basic, their knives are nice.


----------



## bingo (Jul 3, 2020)

lol that got some reactions. Fair enough that you can do lots better for the $ elsewhere. There's definitely a reason I don't use mine. My subjective opinion is that mine aren't garbage. Objectively, my bad shun is better than any knife owned by my friends or family. It drives me nuts when I go to a friend's house and they have bad knives, so I find myself bringing good knives. I think there's also a case to be made for shun or miyabi being the best department store knife. If you don't live in a city with a good knife shop and you don't know what you're looking for, they're probably in stock at the local bed-bath-and-beyond. And you could hold it in your hands.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 3, 2020)

Shun > Mercer. Just saying. Not that it sets the bar very high. Am I right @daveb?


----------



## daveb (Jul 3, 2020)

Would rather cut with a sharpened stick than a Mercer....


----------



## ModRQC (Jul 3, 2020)

@Kippington 

Just watched the video. It’s nowhere near the same thing. Miyabi is a monosteel blade with a fake hamon line. You would barely manage to bend the very tip free handed. Forget about bending it just before the bolster.

What I had tried was using the countertop, clamping the blade with one hand flat, trying to bend back by pushing down the handle. I guess I applied up to more or less 100 pounds. Doesn’t move much - it yields of sort but goes back to being totally bent off center.

I wouldn’t feel at ease trying more force nor using wise grip.

Wasn’t it @Larrin testings where I read that aeb-l was one of the toughest steel?


----------



## Rodin326 (Jul 3, 2020)

I'd throw Victorinox into the ring too as a good starter knife. It's less expensive than Shun and cuts better, IMO. It's not pretty or flashy but it does the job.


----------



## labor of love (Jul 3, 2020)

Just buy a Tojiro DP


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 3, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> @Kippington
> 
> Just watched the video. It’s nowhere near the same thing. Miyabi is a monosteel blade with a fake hamon line. You would barely manage to bend the very tip free handed. Forget about bending it just before the bolster.
> 
> ...


Tough =/= hard or risky to bend


----------



## labor of love (Jul 3, 2020)

Many of the Miyabis I’ve seen come bent out of the box.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 3, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Many of the Miyabis I’ve seen come bent out of the box.


----------



## GoldCoastMitch (Jul 3, 2020)

Thanks for all the good info. Don’t know if I will end up using my Shuns, but I went onto the Kia/Shun website and now have all of mine boxed up and ready to ship to Oregon. Will see how they handle the chip repairs and sharpening. Wonder how long it will take.


----------



## daveb (Jul 3, 2020)

I did catering and demos for a local culinary retailer. They typically turned them pretty quick and more often than not just replaced them.


----------



## panda (Jul 3, 2020)

daveb said:


> The opening question was "why the hate?" The responses made for a pretty reasonable answer - they were descriptions of objective shortcomings. If the question is "Does this knife make me look fat?" then your asking the wrong crowd.


yes Dave, that hello kitty santoku makes you look like a sumo wrestler


----------



## Ruso (Jul 3, 2020)

How can one not to shun with this name?


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Jul 5, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> I'd take a Shun over a Chelsea Miller



I would take Chelsea Miller over a Shun, but not her knives.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Jul 5, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> thanks this is great info! What about stainless clad? Is it more corrosion resistant? This is the knife I’m look at in particular:
> 
> Wakui Gyuto White 2 stainless clad kurouchi Nashiji finish
> 
> ...



Yes stainless clad got better with KU, Nashiji, hammer, etc. finish. My first stainless clad carbon core was a Hiromoto around 15 years ago. Before that I used mono carbons only at work. 

Most of my home knives are stainless clad carbon core a dark grey patina at the edge forms quickly with use. Just wash and dry after cutting.


----------



## DitmasPork (Jul 5, 2020)

Keith Sinclair said:


> I would take Chelsea Miller over a Shun, but not her knives.


If given one, I’d certainly take a Chelsea Miller knife over a Shun—less common, higher resale value—I’d flip it!


----------



## ian (Jul 5, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> @Kippington
> 
> Just watched the video. It’s nowhere near the same thing. Miyabi is a monosteel blade with a fake hamon line. You would barely manage to bend the very tip free handed. Forget about bending it just before the bolster.
> 
> ...



It’s really weird that they made a fake lamination line. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before. Bizarre. But yea, since it’s monosteel you probably wouldn’t be able to bend it back and make it stay.


----------



## DitmasPork (Jul 5, 2020)

Although I've never bought, used or desire to ever own a Shun—they are good, appropriate knives for many cooks—everyone starts somewhere. They offer a low price point, perfectly functional knife with a certain amount of 'bling.' Shuns being mass produced, might not have the nuances of handmade knives—but for many that's not an important objective that warrants spending extra money on. Shuns are also much, much more accessible, easy to find knives at big stores—lotta people don't like buying knives online. Also, Shun are so common, almost ubiquitous that they've become iconic—most pro cooks I know have never heard of Kato, Watanabe or Masamoto.


----------



## soigne_west (Jul 5, 2020)

I’ve actually seen my fair share of shun tattoos.


----------



## TSF415 (Jul 5, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Although I've never bought, used or desire to ever own a Shun—they are good, appropriate knives for many cooks—everyone starts somewhere. They offer a low price point, perfectly functional knife with a certain amount of 'bling.' Shuns being mass produced, might not have the nuances of handmade knives—but for many that's not an important objective that warrants spending extra money on. Shuns are also much, much more accessible, easy to find knives at big stores—lotta people don't like buying knives online. Also, Shun are so common, almost ubiquitous that they've become iconic—most pro cooks I know have never heard of Kato, Watanabe or Masamoto.
> 
> View attachment 86175
> 
> View attachment 86176



I guess it’s not surprising that the same people who don’t want to pay a little extra for a knife also don’t pay a little extra for a tattoo.


----------



## ian (Jul 5, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> I guess it’s not surprising that the same people who don’t want to pay a little extra for knife also don’t pay a little extra for a tattoo.



Don’t think it’s really about not wanting to spend more. When I bought my first Shun, I don’t think I knew that there were knives that cut a lot better than them. The places that the general public buy from don’t stock anything better. I guess nowadays you can do a little better than Shun even on Amazon, but you’re not going to run across nice Yoshihiro knives or whatever during your search unless you’re already searching for better-than-Shun quality.


----------



## TSF415 (Jul 5, 2020)

ian said:


> Don’t think it’s really about not wanting to spend more. When I bought my first Shun, I don’t think I knew that there were knives that cut a lot better than them. The places that the general public buy from don’t stock anything better. I guess nowadays you can do a little better than Shun even on Amazon, but you’re not going to run across nice Yoshihiro knives or whatever during your search unless you’re already searching for better-than-Shun quality.



My first knife was a shun. I knew no better. I'm also perfectly ok with a person buying a shun but knowing is half the battle.

I was trying to make a joke about those tattoos but I guess my sarcasm has failed me. I'm funny I swear.


----------



## ian (Jul 5, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> I'm funny I swear.



Hah, that’s a good joke!


----------



## ojisan (Jul 5, 2020)

Pro tip: if you have large Japanese supermarkets in your area, go to one of them and buy a Seki-magoroku, made buy the same maker (Kai) and for the Japanese market for less prices.


----------



## Xenif (Jul 5, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Although I've never bought, used or desire to ever own a Shun—they are good, appropriate knives for many cooks—everyone starts somewhere. They offer a low price point, perfectly functional knife with a certain amount of 'bling.' Shuns being mass produced, might not have the nuances of handmade knives—but for many that's not an important objective that warrants spending extra money on. Shuns are also much, much more accessible, easy to find knives at big stores—lotta people don't like buying knives online. Also, Shun are so common, almost ubiquitous that they've become iconic—most pro cooks I know have never heard of Kato, Watanabe or Masamoto.
> 
> View attachment 86175
> 
> View attachment 86176



Do people have tatoos of Toyota Camry, Honda Accords as well?


----------



## DitmasPork (Jul 5, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> I guess it’s not surprising that the same people who don’t want to pay a little extra for a knife also don’t pay a little extra for a tattoo.


Often it’s not ‘want,’ but simply not able to afford. First j-knife I bought was a masamoto hc, most I’d ever spent on a knife, felt reckless back then! Yeah, with tattoos, it’s very much a taste issue too.


----------



## DitmasPork (Jul 5, 2020)

Xenif said:


> Do people have tatoos of Toyota Camry, Honda Accords as well?
> 
> View attachment 86178


I’d get that as a tramp stamp.


----------



## DitmasPork (Jul 5, 2020)

Xenif said:


> Do people have tatoos of Toyota Camry, Honda Accords as well?
> 
> View attachment 86178


----------



## Xenif (Jul 5, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> View attachment 86180
> 
> View attachment 86181


I will stick with the Hello Kitty knife tramp stamp


----------



## Alwayzbakin (Jul 5, 2020)

my first knife (besides a $20 forschner) was a shun classic. It was my main knife for years. I would never buy one again, the steel was quite chippy and I now know about several other options I would grab for about $20 more than the $130 I think I paid. But I had that first one for a while and when I wanted to get a knife and fire tattoo with my brother (yes a cheap tattoo!) I got that shun tattooed on me, not knowing that in a few years there would be so much more I was interested in.


----------



## daveb (Jul 5, 2020)

Xenif said:


> View attachment 86178



She could be my next ex-wife.......


----------



## labor of love (Jul 5, 2020)

daveb said:


> She could be my next ex-wife.......


At this point they really should start a support group.


----------



## DitmasPork (Jul 5, 2020)

Alwayzbakin said:


> my first knife (besides a $20 forschner) was a shun classic. It was my main knife for years. I would never buy one again, the steel was quite chippy and I now know about several other options I would grab for about $20 more than the $130 I think I paid. But I had that first one for a while and when I wanted to get a knife and fire tattoo with my brother (yes a cheap tattoo!) I got that shun tattooed on me, not knowing that in a few years there would be so much more I was interested in.
> View attachment 86184


I dig how tattoos can mark a specific period on ones life.


----------



## Bear (Jul 5, 2020)

My one and only
Shun Blue Steel Honesuki , 4.5 Inch, fun little blade*, *great for silver skin*.





*


----------



## ModRQC (Jul 6, 2020)

ian said:


> It’s really weird that they made a fake lamination line. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before. Bizarre. But yea, since it’s monosteel you probably wouldn’t be able to bend it back and make it stay.











Buy MIYABI 4000 FC Gyutoh | ZWILLING.COM


MIYABI 4000 FC 8 inch Gyutoh ►Free shipping on orders above $59 ✓ Order now directly from the manufacturer✓




www.zwilling.com





- "Twofold ice hardening"
- "Fabricated from revolutionary FC-61"
- "Sandblasted Katana edge"

A question of looking alike, but no real cladding.


----------



## podzap (Jul 6, 2020)

If you like a Shun then buy it. Who gives a rat's ass if other people hate them?

I have a Kai Shun Kaji 8" that I picked up on sale for 160 EUR. It's a drawer queen. My wife pulls it out when she remembers it. Certainly gets less than 4 hours of use in an entire year. Doesn't really matter - she likes it. She also likes MAC knives quite a lot. I even tought her how to use the Naniwas and the sink bridge, and how to strop with old newspaper.


----------



## ModRQC (Jul 6, 2020)

This comment comes every four-five comments. Granted, most other comments are pretty "bashful" or at least express a maximum disdain. But I don't think "Buy one if you want one" resolves the question of such thread in any way whatsoever. It's obvious he wants it, but also obvious he heard the bad rep. Op wants to know WHY. Four bashful posts from different perspectives are still more informing.

Just saying...

(And that for the price you can ALWAYS find better VG/better steel/better maker than a Shun. Warranty might make a point for anyone that's basically anxious with J-knives coming with no warranty. Resharpening program is pretty moot around here. I myself made a point that Miyabi had big issues, and that the so-called better F&F from such big brands is also to be taken with a truckload of salt).

I think the most important point made in this thread - or absence thereof - is that there's not a single post thoroughly recommending them as a brand. There is some exceptional love though.


----------



## ian (Jul 6, 2020)

Aw shucks, I’m just tryin’a be helpful.

Edit: fyi, this is a bashful post.


----------



## ModRQC (Jul 6, 2020)

Me too but I have TRS...


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 6, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Me too but I have TRS...


Totally Ridiculous Sharpening?


----------



## ModRQC (Jul 6, 2020)

Worse even - Troll Replying Syndrome.

But thanks for your comment!


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 6, 2020)

You guys are killing me here. Don't turn me into devil's advocate more than I already am. I hate the Kanso handle out of the box more than you hate Shun, combined.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 6, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> You guys are killing me here. Don't turn me into devil's advocate more than I already am. I hate the Kanso handle out of the box more than you hate Shun, combined.


Have you heard of Mercer?


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 6, 2020)

Still hate it more. I would very much like to meet those that ever considered it a great choice for final production.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 6, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> Still hate it more. I would very much like to meet those that ever considered it a great choice for final production.


Wow! They must of been trying to suck intentionally.


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 6, 2020)

Searching for a premium look the wrong possible way.


----------



## parbaked (Jul 6, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> I hate the Kanso handle out of the box more than you hate Shun, combined.



But it's tagayasan like Jiro and it has a lanyard hole...bonus!


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 6, 2020)

Indeed, indeed.


----------



## podzap (Jul 7, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Worse even - Troll Replying Syndrome.
> 
> But thanks for your comment!



More like holier than thou syndrome.

I will feel free to reply to questions in which ever manner I so desire. Should you dislike the style of a reply I make to another person, where there is no maliciousness involved, then you are free to take a flying ****.


----------



## soigne_west (Jul 8, 2020)




----------



## ModRQC (Jul 8, 2020)

podzap said:


> More like holier than thou syndrome.
> 
> I will feel free to reply to questions in which ever manner I so desire. Should you dislike the style of a reply I make to another person, where there is no maliciousness involved, then you are free to take a flying ****.



And the day I'll be addressing you personally, you may have an inking that I do when I'll quote you, and not start a post with "such comment comes back every four five replies and I don't feel it answers the question".

Holier than thou, you are...


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## tchan001 (Jul 8, 2020)

Shuns are such great knives I'd gladly buy you a brand new Shun and trade it for a well-used well-kept Kato that you are tired of using.


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## ModRQC (Jul 8, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> Shuns are such great knives I'd gladly buy you a brand new Shun and trade it for a well-used well-kept Kato that you are tired of using.


 
Will you go the lenght of giving that Shun its first great sharpening?


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## tchan001 (Jul 8, 2020)

No, we need to keep it brand new so the proud new owner can frame it above his fireplace.


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## ModRQC (Jul 8, 2020)

We need to make sure it’s dull so that it never leaves that frame.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 8, 2020)

I *LOVE* Shun knives! 

So many people _(outside this forum)_ have them and they're 90% knife abusers so there's always broken tips, nicked/chipped up edges, bad sharpening work to correct, etc. Sure they *suck* to sharpen on stones but when using belts they're actually the *easiest* knife to make crazy sharp. If it wasn't for them I'd likely have gone out of business years ago.


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## tchan001 (Jul 8, 2020)

You're being paid to service Shun rather than paying to use it. Not a bad proposition at all.


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## daveb (Jul 8, 2020)

If you like making money on Shun, I've got a box of Moritaka to send you


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## ModRQC (Jul 8, 2020)

One’s sorrow is another one’s joy. Balance of life. That is something to be remembered: Shun can lead to Zen.


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## kayman67 (Jul 8, 2020)

Told you guys!


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## ModRQC (Jul 8, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> I *LOVE* Shun knives!
> 
> So many people _(outside this forum)_ have them and they're 90% knife abusers so there's always broken tips, nicked/chipped up edges, bad sharpening work to correct, etc. Sure they *suck* to sharpen on stones but when using belts they're actually the *easiest* knife to make crazy sharp. If it wasn't for them I'd likely have gone out of business years ago.



Anyway that's all a Shun deserves is it not, to have a belt taken to it.


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## M1k3 (Jul 8, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> One’s sorrow is another one’s joy. Balance of life. That is something to be remembered: Shun can lead to Zen.


Uhh, Zen knives are worse than the Shun's we're all hating on.....


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## ModRQC (Jul 8, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Uhh, Zen knives are worse than the Shun's we're all hating on.....



Godammit I should have known...


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## Noodle Soup (Jul 8, 2020)

A few years ago I gave a co-worker pretty much a full set of Shun knives that had been sent to our company for review/field testing. I told her at the time she could send them out to me anytime she needed them resharpened. About a year later she did. I couldn't believe what a chipped and nicked up bunch of edges! Seems her husband used them for what ever home repair project came up including cutting electrical wire etc. I didn't hear about the knives again until a few months ago when she asked my advice about buying a new set. I didn't dare ask what happened to the $$$$ worth of Shuns, just gave her some suggestion of sources we all know. So a month or two later I asked how she was coming on finding new knives. She said she had replaced them with more Shuns! They must have had something going for them she liked I guess.


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## ModRQC (Jul 8, 2020)

A fine example of how Shun as a brand is still alive and very well !

Shall we call this "ignorance", perhaps not. I realize that there's just the usual duality of states here: being "aware" of the knife, or being only aware that it is supposed to cut... For a long time I was #2 and there wasn't anything or anyone to make me realize that I was ignorant.


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## Twigg (Jul 8, 2020)

Macy's is running a big sale on Shun right now. Just throwing it out there in case anyone is interested


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Jul 8, 2020)

I'll check out Macy's sale, could use a new paring knife.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 8, 2020)

Most Shuns chef's knives are not something I would buy, with exception to 2 Shuns: Shun Fuji 10" chef's knife and Shun Classic 7" Chinese Chef's knife. The Fuji has an okay profile and concave grind half way down to the edge. And it is decently thin behind the edge (actually thinner than Tad White 2 and Masamoto KS behind the edge), so it is not a bad cutter. The handle could be shorter and lighter though. I didn't find the SG2 steel it uses more chippy than the SG2 steel used by Takamura and Shibata. HOWEVER, it is too expensive for what it is offering. If you can get a Shun Fuji for under $200 (which I did), I think it is not a bad choice. The Classic chinese chef's knife was on sale for ~$120 last month in China. According to a couple of my Chinese chef/cook friends, it is a very solid choice for the price because it is very thin behind the edge and has a near flat grind which is a preferred grind as a Chinese slicing knife.

Besides, what I find interesting is Zkramers 52100/SG2 are worse cutters than Shun Fuji but I didn't see too much hate on those.


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## Noodle Soup (Jul 8, 2020)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Most Shuns chef's knives are not something I would buy, with exception to 2 Shuns: Shun Fuji 10" chef's knife and Shun Classic 7" Chinese Chef's knife. The Fuji has an okay profile and concave grind half way down to the edge. And it is decently thin behind the edge (actually thinner than Tad White 2 and Masamoto KS behind the edge), so it is not a bad cutter. The handle could be shorter and lighter though. I didn't find the SG2 steel it uses more chippy than the SG2 steel used by Takamura and Shibata. HOWEVER, it is too expensive for what it is offering. If you can get a Shun Fuji for under $200 (which I did), I think it is not a bad choice. The Classic chinese chef's knife was on sale for ~$120 last month in China. According to a couple of my Chinese chef/cook friends, it is a very solid choice for the price because it is very thin behind the edge and has a near flat grind which is a preferred grind as a Chinese slicing knife.
> 
> Besides, what I find interesting is Zkramers 52100/SG2 are worse cutters than Shun Fuji but I didn't see too much hate on those.


One of those cleavers was in the batch I sent my co-worker and it was the only one that didn't come back for resharpening. Maybe it survived! I kind wished I had been so generous with that one later. Nice little Chinese cleaver.


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## M1k3 (Jul 8, 2020)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Most Shuns chef's knives are not something I would buy, with exception to 2 Shuns: Shun Fuji 10" chef's knife and Shun Classic 7" Chinese Chef's knife. The Fuji has an okay profile and concave grind half way down to the edge. And it is decently thin behind the edge (actually thinner than Tad White 2 and Masamoto KS behind the edge), so it is not a bad cutter. The handle could be shorter and lighter though. I didn't find the SG2 steel it uses more chippy than the SG2 steel used by Takamura and Shibata. HOWEVER, it is too expensive for what it is offering. If you can get a Shun Fuji for under $200 (which I did), I think it is not a bad choice. The Classic chinese chef's knife was on sale for ~$120 last month in China. According to a couple of my Chinese chef/cook friends, it is a very solid choice for the price because it is very thin behind the edge and has a near flat grind which is a preferred grind as a Chinese slicing knife.
> 
> Besides, what I find interesting is Zkramers 52100/SG2 are worse cutters than Shun Fuji but I didn't see too much hate on those.


You'll find plenty of mentions of them being fat behind the edge with handles that can sometimes be Wabi Sabi.


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## ModRQC (Jul 8, 2020)

A new definition for unicorn: a Shun with universal praise...


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## daveb (Jul 8, 2020)

You mean the 3.5 inch oarer?


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## Twigg (Jul 8, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> A new definition for unicorn: a Shun with universal praise...


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## panda (Jul 8, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Wow! They must of been trying to suck intentionally.


thats what sea did


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## Corradobrit1 (Jul 9, 2020)

captaincaed said:


> I dated a girl at Sur la Table and wanted to get in her pants. So, for Jknives, Shun was my first.


SlaT files for bankruptcy. Guess Tinder is your best bet now.


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## captaincaed (Jul 9, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> SlaT files for bankruptcy. Guess Tinder is your best bet now.


Oh man. Maybe I’ll have to hang around Crate and Barrel for a while


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## Corradobrit1 (Jul 9, 2020)

captaincaed said:


> Oh man. Maybe I’ll have to hang around Crate and Barrel for a while


I hear Williams & Sonoma have a better class of Shun


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## M1k3 (Jul 9, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> I hear Williams & Sonoma have a better class of Shun


And if you're in the restaurant industry, you get 20% off


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## Ceriano (Jul 9, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> SlaT files for bankruptcy. Guess Tinder is your best bet now.



Looks like ours have started their closing sale. I'll check them out tomorrow see what they got. Maybe I can score a good cutting board and an espresso machine!

Some of their knives are marked down 50-70%. nothing decent tho.









Zwilling J.A. Henckels Now 6-Piece Knife Block Set | Sur La Table


Zwilling JA Henckels Now 6-Piece Knife Block Set




www.surlatable.com


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## Goorackerelite (Jul 14, 2020)

My gateway drug was a shun 8” chefs knife and then tried to upgrade for a long time before finding something that would obliterate the shun classic. It’s a good blade with amazing geometry, but the weight and awkwardness of the handle and the fat belly turned me off. Then the kanso line came out and godddd... that was the worst knife I’ve ever used.


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## Hamso k (Jul 15, 2020)

Ceriano said:


> I tried the 8" Shun classic chef knife at the store the other day and I really liked the fit and the finish. If Shun is overpriced at $120 what other better options are out there? Do knife people just hate them because they are generic?



Even if they were worth the money, I just don't like their business methods. Their plan is market, market, market. They advertise and sponsor more than any other brand. They are the Beats by Dre of chef knives. That's why people looking to buy their first nice knife always buy a Shun. They see Alton Brown hyping them up and don't bother researching alternatives. Also their "lifetime warranty" is very misleading.


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## AbeFroman (Jul 15, 2020)

My first non-German knife was a Shun 10 inch classic (I fell for the marketing just like Hamso mentioned), I followed that up with the 4 inch paring. The F&F was just pretty to look at but non-rounded spine became uncomfortable. I gave the knife to my dad several years back and last I saw it, the thing was chipped to hell (I fixed it for him but he'll stick with his Wusthof)

The paring is actually not bad, it's nice and nimble but still not a pleasant feeling to sharpen.

But the worst of the worst was the Kanso Brisket Slicer my wife bought me one year. The handle is uncomfortable, and the edge needed a ton of work. However, people think it looks pretty. My wife refuses to buy anymore knives for me, which makes sense if I bought her a purse it would probably have kevlar lining with carbon fiber buckles, racing stripes, a machine gun pouch, and "Honk if you're horny" in contrast stitching on the side .


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## Goorackerelite (Jul 15, 2020)

Kanso line is the worst! their AUS-10A steel is one of the worst heat treated piece of garbage I've ever encountered.


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## JoBone (Jul 16, 2020)

My knife addiction started with a 6” shun chef knife. I still have it in my rotation for the iffy items - (not hard enough for my beater, but don’t want to risk a high end knife).

When you think what most of us grew up with, they are totally awesome. If you compare to hand forged Japanese knives, well it’s easy to talk smack...


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## Midsummer (Jul 16, 2020)

There has been quite a bit of praise here at KKF for the shun classic paring knife.


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## kayman67 (Jul 16, 2020)

So, "we having" the campaign or what? 
Ok, not exactly my initial idea, but "Everyone should own a classic paring Shun knife" is as good as it gets. Still counts


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## Twigg (Jul 16, 2020)

Midsummer said:


> There has been quite a bit of praise here at KKF for the shun classic paring knife.



I too have noticed that. Even though I posted earlier in this thread my dislike for my one and only Shun, I may be willing to try one of their paring knives. In regard to the one I already own, I am strongly considering offering my Shun Classic 6" Gokujo Boning knife next month in BST as trade for a great metal spatula or a shrimp deveiner. Really haven't decided yet.


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## MowgFace (Jul 16, 2020)

I have the paring knife, and i love it. Handle shape and size are very comfortable, and the heel to handle placement allows for choking up on the knife when using in hand.


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## blorp (Jul 19, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> One’s sorrow is another one’s joy. Balance of life. That is something to be remembered: Shun can lead to Zen.


You're equating Shun with these?





Amazon.com: Hampton Forge Zen Classic 10-Piece Knife Set: Block Knife Sets: Kitchen & Dining


Online shopping for Kitchen Knives & Accessories from a great selection of Cutlery Sets, Specialty Knives, Sharpeners, Cutting Boards, & more at everyday low prices.



www.amazon.com





If so, then you're correct.

Just kidding ofc, but probably could get a better blade for the money


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## TreharnM (Jul 22, 2020)

Think the main thing is that you can get better cutting performance with the same price with a handmade knife...Though I think people often forget that you do get benefits such as warranty with Shun knives.


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## ChefShramrock (Jul 22, 2020)

I started with Shuns, about 15 years ago. Never had an issue with chipping. I sharpened all my own on stones and they took a great edge. When I got into handmade carbon steel Japanese knives I sold all but the bread knife, 6" utility and 3½" parer, as my wife likes using them, and I prefer her use those instead of my carbon steel knives. I have nothing bad to say about Shuns. They served me well for so many years.


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## Michi (Jul 22, 2020)

I guess you could call Shun the "Wüsthof of Japan". No sex appeal, no artisanal appeal, not collectible, mass-produced, and over-priced. But they are decent.

The one Shun I own (Shun Hiro SG-2 210 mm) I really like using. It's a good knife IMO, if you like knives with some heft and some belly. In character, it's not that different from a Wüsthof chef's knife: a workhorse that will forgive a lot of sins and stand up to a fair bit of abuse, but cuts considerably better than a Wüsthof.


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jul 22, 2020)

TreharnM said:


> Think the main thing is that you can get better cutting performance with the same price with a handmade knife...Though I think people often forget that you do get benefits such as warranty with Shun knives.


Very true. I bought six Shun knives in 2012. After joining this forum I learned about their warranty. Just sent all six to the Kai/Shun Oregon facility for sharpening and possibly replacement of two especially badly chipped ones. They acknowledged receipt and told me I should expect them back in about one month. Not the speediest service, but they appear to be honoring the warranty.


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## GoldCoastMitch (Aug 27, 2020)

Finally got back my Shuns from service at the factory in Oregon. Mixed review:

They did a good job at creating new pointy tips where needed.

New microbevel edges appear uniform, but oddly at larger angle than I expected.

Definitely lost a considerable amount of steel on some knives. Even worse, the geometry of those knives don’t look correct anymore.

What would be a fair way of testing the sharpness of these newly serviced knives? They don’t feel very sharp to my touch.

I think going forward I will sharpen these myself.


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## captaincaed (Aug 27, 2020)

Good to hear the warranty worked out. If you want to test the edge, you could try various papers to get a sense of how clean/deburred the edge is. If you want to test cutting performance, make a quick vid and post to the carrot thread. Tomato and pepper skins will give you a good sense too.


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## ModRQC (Aug 27, 2020)

Try to use a type of paper you can easily renew - sound tells a lot and if you always use the very same type of paper you get accustomed to the slightest variation, even in feeling of the cut.


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## kayman67 (Aug 27, 2020)

Paper. You get a huge amount of feedback. 
And just use it to see how it will perform compared to other knives. What you remember might not always be that reliable.


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## daveb (Aug 27, 2020)

Paper will tell you about the edge quality/consistency but won't tell you a thing about the geometry / profile of the knives.

Many threads on here discuss assessing the knifes cutting ability. (Google is your friend) My "test" is always to cut a couple quarts of mire poix. The onions will tell you about the tip - is it thin, is it flexi? The celery will tell you about the profile - how flat it is and where? The carrots will tell you about the geometry - does it wedge, does it split the carrot, is it nice and clean?

My experience with knives coming back from Shun sharpening is that the edge will be dressed but nothing will be done for thinning. Hence the Shun will be a "fatty" in pretty short order.


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## kayman67 (Aug 27, 2020)

Actually even a "fat" knife has a very different fall with paper. I can always feel it. But, like I've said, just use it.


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## ModRQC (Aug 27, 2020)

Food obviously is the ultimate test. Thanks @daveb pretty neat way to organize feedback with a food prep that won’t go amiss.


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## OnionSlicer (Aug 27, 2020)

Since there's a lot of MAC talk in this thread, the best place to buy them in the US (that I know of) is epicedge; 10% kkf discount, no tax, free s&h. Someone looking to build a no-nonsense set of blades could do pretty well.


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 29, 2020)

It it's different in Hawaii you can buy Mac knives at Don Quixote grocery stores. Quite a few folks here use Mac knives from way back when even sold them at Longs drug stores along with Sakai slicers. Been decades since you could get decent knives at Drug store.


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## DaBishop (Nov 23, 2020)

I've got a bunch of Shun's...thought I was so cool buying them and now, i curse them evertime they get dulled because they're awful to sharpen. I'm looking to pair down and sell a bunch of them to upgrade to fewer, easier to sharpen and better knives. That said, I really like their Kaji Cleaver and their pairing knives. The Ken Onion 8" Chef's knife is my Gyo to (get it...go to...i'm very very funny in case you have not noticed) but as I said, takes forever to sharpen properly.


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## spaceconvoy (Dec 27, 2020)

Someone please talk me out of buying a Shun... I've been gravitating to their classic 7" asian cooks knife, to use as a large petty. Profile looks identical to a Misono 180mm gyuto, but I'd prefer the Shun for its handle, as long as it's not a total pita to sharpen. 

Is there any reason to believe their heat-treat has improved over the years? I see a few people saying the steel is actually pretty good, and I wonder if the naysayers had earlier versions.


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## inferno (Dec 27, 2020)

i would take a chance and just get one.


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## Qapla' (Dec 27, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Someone please talk me out of buying a Shun... I've been gravitating to their classic 7" asian cooks knife, to use as a large petty. Profile looks identical to a Misono 180mm gyuto, but I'd prefer the Shun for its handle, as long as it's not a total pita to sharpen.
> 
> Is there any reason to believe their heat-treat has improved over the years? I see a few people saying the steel is actually pretty good, and I wonder if the naysayers had earlier versions.


Certainly other VG-10's exist? Hattori FH, Ryusen Bontenunryu, Zanmai, and Takamura VG-10 come to mind as reputable VG-10.

There are also other choices in other such steels, e.g. JCK Blue Clouds AUS-10.


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## ModRQC (Dec 27, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Someone please talk me out of buying a Shun... I've been gravitating to their classic 7" asian cooks knife, to use as a large petty. Profile looks identical to a Misono 180mm gyuto, but I'd prefer the Shun for its handle, as long as it's not a total pita to sharpen.
> 
> Is there any reason to believe their heat-treat has improved over the years? I see a few people saying the steel is actually pretty good, and I wonder if the naysayers had earlier versions.



Forum rep = 0 ? 

Seriously though I can’t remember who, a couple of people here found their Shun Asian satisfying.


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## spaceconvoy (Dec 27, 2020)

inferno said:


> i would take a chance and just get one.


Enabler 



Qapla' said:


> Certainly other VG-10's exist? Hattori FH, Ryusen Bontenunryu, Zanmai, and Takamura VG-10 come to mind as reputable VG-10.
> 
> There are also other choices in other such steels, e.g. JCK Blue Clouds AUS-10.


The part I'd like to focus on is, "I'd prefer the Shun for its handle." I'm not particularly interested in VG10 or whatever steel a knife happens to be, as long as it's stainless and not too difficult to sharpen or too brittle. Some say Shun is bad on both counts, others say it's fine. I wonder if the people who hate it are comparing it to other stainless or to their nice carbon knives.

Maybe I'm an anomaly here, but I generally care more about a knife's profile, balance, and handle than steel performance. Up to a certain point at least. For example, I think CCK's mystery stainless and Misono moly are fine enough steels. The Shun is exactly what I want in terms of profile, balance, and handle, but some of the comments about steel have me concerned.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 27, 2020)

To me grind is more important than type of steel. That said a Tanaka 210 nashjji ginsan stain resistant core is better steel & grind than shuns. A 210mm is 199.00, 240mm 219.00 free shipping US. It does have a great grind & geometry. 

It will cut fruits, vegetables, & meat without bone with a feel that a shun or many of the other knife brands that make up vast majority of volume knife sales can't with below average grinds. 

Also the Tanaka blue core is another option.
They have a thin grind behind the edge so you should use a little common sense using them.
Of coarse that's why they are such good cutters.


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## ian (Dec 27, 2020)

I mean, the Tanaka's probably better, but it's twice the price. I must say, it's refreshing to see a Shun with a profile that's only a little bit stupid! The steel will be fine... I have no problem sharpening it. It may not be as sexy as ginsan, but it gets plenty sharp and stays sort of sharp for a long time. The biggest thing for me is that they're usually super handle heavy. I'm not sure I could get used to that again. But I haven't tried the Asian cook's knife, maybe it's not as extreme.


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## spaceconvoy (Dec 27, 2020)

ian said:


> I mean, the Tanaka's probably better, but it's twice the price. I must say, it's refreshing to see a Shun with a profile that's only a little bit stupid! The steel will be fine... I have no problem sharpening it. It may not be as sexy as ginsan, but it gets plenty sharp and stays sort of sharp for a long time. The biggest thing for me is that they're usually super handle heavy. I'm not sure I could get used to that again. But I haven't tried the Asian cook's knife, maybe it's not as extreme.


Thanks for the response, that's exactly the sort of comparative experience I was hoping someone on here had. Though I distinctly remember asking to be talked out of this purchase 

According to doubtful internet specs, the Shun should only be 6g heavier than the Misono moly 180mm gyuto. I personally prefer western bolster-balanced handles for this size of utility knife, so I think it'll work for me. 

And this may sound weird but honestly the main reason I want the Shun is because handles with pins bother me visually. Some combination of "OCD" and trypophobia perhaps. Yes, I am a ridiculous person, but the heart wants what it wants.


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## ModRQC (Dec 27, 2020)

There are a thousand different iterations of just about any product out there just because there are millions of ridiculous people on the planet. Have it your way.


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## juice (Dec 27, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Someone please talk me out of buying a Shun...


No. #JustBuyIt #PeoplesFrontForDecentMidRangeKnives


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## spaceconvoy (Dec 27, 2020)

Yeah, what was I thinking asking a question like that around here #retailtherapysupportgroup


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## M1k3 (Dec 27, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Yes, I am a ridiculous person, but the heart wants what it wants.


But you're here. So ignore it. Listen to the internet! What could go wrong?


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## Barmoley (Dec 27, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Thanks for the response, that's exactly the sort of comparative experience I was hoping someone on here had. Though I distinctly remember asking to be talked out of this purchase



Don't buy it. They are crap, besides both chipping and deforming they are very hard to sharpen. They also call you names and drink all your beer.

Does this help?


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## Rangen (Dec 27, 2020)

If you like the shape and edge feel of a Shun, and plan to have someone else sharpen it, go for it. Or if you somehow like sharpening the steel they use, you can even strike that objection.

Personally, I'd sharpen Globals all day before I picked up a Shun and put it to a stone. And I really dislike sharpening Globals.


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## ian (Dec 27, 2020)

Shun steel is the worst. I usually give it a razor sharp 16k edge and it won’t even cut a tomato after a week or so. It also chips like mad. Usually when I go up to 16k the edge is refined enough that it just slips through the crystal structure of the frozen broth I need to cut into pieces. But with Shuns, I ended up getting a .05mm chip near the tip once from doing this. What a disgrace.

Grind on Shuns is soo bad. They’ve got more overgrinds than TF! I once had one that had like 14 overgrinds on one blade, all in a row near the edge. Ever heard of quality control?

They look like crap too. Whoever forges them obviously f’ed up the forging multiple times and tried to fix it by folding the steel over itself and starting again each time.

Kai-yah!


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 28, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> There are a thousand different iterations of just about any product out there just because there are millions of ridiculous people on the planet. Have it your way.



That sounds like Burger King 

Looked up the Asian 180 100 bucks for another sweep tip wacko shun is too much for a blah knife.


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## Benuser (Dec 28, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Someone please talk me out of buying a Shun... I've been gravitating to their classic 7" asian cooks knife, to use as a large petty. Profile looks identical to a Misono 180mm gyuto, but I'd prefer the Shun for its handle, as long as it's not a total pita to sharpen.
> 
> Is there any reason to believe their heat-treat has improved over the years? I see a few people saying the steel is actually pretty good, and I wonder if the naysayers had earlier versions.





ミソノ刃物株式会社　MISONO CUTLERY CO., LTD.


Surprised about a Shun's profile being identical to a Misono's. The Shuns I've seen all had a high tip and resulting of that, a fat belly, as modern Germans. Expect with a Misono a spear point tip and a French profile, but without any deadly flat section. Rather one continuous arc. 
If it's the 440 series you're looking for, the steel has a good bite, with evenly distributed carbides. Never seen it chipping. Easy sharpening. Very nice Fit&Finish, large, comfortable handle. Reasonable price. 
The UX-10 series from Misono are a very different animal. Steel is 19C27, made for industrial use, i.e. steel cutting. Highly abrasion resistant. Big carbides, evenly distributed, providing a lot of bite, even when totally dull. Quite popular with pro cooks who don't sharpen their own blades and take bite for sharpness. Sharpening it is a frankly unpleasant experience. Remarkable, innovative design people love or hate. High price. 
By the way: if you're looking for a 180 to be used as a petty, you may consider the 180 'slicer' from the 440 series. ミソノ刃物株式会社　MISONO CUTLERY CO., LTD.
My favourite stainless petty, as it comes with a normally sized handle, while most petties don't. With other knives I hardly care about the handle. With a petty though, I don't use a pinch or claw grip. 
If you were to buy a Misono and live in the States, get it with Korin and ask for the free 'initial stone sharpening'. Will make your first sharpening much easier. 
About sharpening a Shun: hard to say what to be expected. Heat Treatment with the used steel is very critical and doesn't match too well with mass production. Now, in the best cases sharpening VG-10 isn't that simple, as the burr has to get abraded along the full stone progression. In other cases this deburring will fail in the end and you will have to restart it all over again. Poorly treated ones are likely to develop a wire edge. An exercise in frustration. 
With any Shun, first get rid of the factory edge before any use and don't be afraid to remove some steel. I would start at JIS320. Common with a lot of knives, but most imperious with Shuns as it will avoid you serious chipping and all the time and effort to have those chips removed from an almost brand new knife within the first hour of use. Admire its pristine beauty when you take it out of the box. A precious moment you paid for and that won't come back.


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## nwshull (Dec 28, 2020)

Rangen said:


> If you like the shape and edge feel of a Shun, and plan to have someone else sharpen it, go for it. Or if you somehow like sharpening the steel they use, you can even strike that objection.
> 
> Personally, I'd sharpen Globals all day before I picked up a Shun and put it to a stone. And I really dislike sharpening Globals.


I have had a lot easier luck sharpening globals than Shuns once you get around the fact they come with those super convexed secondary bevels you have to flatten.


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## ian (Dec 28, 2020)

I don't get all this Shun steel hate. I mean, hating chippiness I can understand, but all these mediocre stainless steels feel in basically the same ballpark to me when sharpening. Globals seem to be softer steel: 56-58 HRC vs 60-61 for Shun, so I guess they're probably a bit easier to sharpen. But you're probably going to have to sharpen the Shun less than the Global then. And I can understand having a preference if you're sharpening like 20 of them in a row, but if you're a home user like (I think?) @spaceconvoy is, what difference does it make if you spend 10 seconds more sharpening the Shun than the Global? 

Says the guy who basically only buys knives he likes sharpening. Hypocritical much? I guess I buy carbon knives to have a nice sharpening experience, and just "get through" sharpening stainless.


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## spaceconvoy (Dec 28, 2020)

ian said:


> but if you're a home user like (I think?) @spaceconvoy is


Correct, a home user who's used to sharpening a lot of mediocre stainless.

Truth be told, I've had a Shun in my possession this whole time, a BNIB classic paring knife that I had been planning to sell on ebay. I calculated the amount I'd make on it minus the hassle involved was worth the opportunity to test the steel and perhaps save myself from buying a new knife. Or maybe I was just bored.

I can't understand why people say it's difficult to sharpen. Compared to my other stainless (CCK, Misono moly, Sugimoto moly, Sukenari ginsan, and Herder K series) it felt more abrasion resistant and slower to cut, but I found deburring to be easier. Definitely not terrible, just a different tradeoff than I'm used to. For reference I used an SP1500 and finished on an Ikarashi from Watanabe, both of which I find well-suited to stainless.

Haven't tested the edge very much because there's only so much you can do with a 90mm parer. The steel feels like it has more bite than basic moly but isn't as fine as ginsan. I bought it April of this year if that makes a difference. Maybe I'll notice poor edge retention or chippiness after a while, but it's certainly not a pain to sharpen. So either Shun's quality control is terrible, or there really is bias against them.


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## Rangen (Dec 28, 2020)

I admit that my Shun hate comes from only one knife, a Chinese cleaver, and part of the hate is not fair, I just hate the shape of the thing. Chinese cleavers should not have such a pronounced curve to the edge. It's as though it was shaped to cut a single juniper berry.

But there is something about the steel, not just the shape, and it comes from my actually enjoying sharpening. It's a recreational activity to me, and I notice a lot when it's fun, and when it's just a chore. Mostly, it's fun. Really, almost all the time, it's fun, for a wide variety of steels. For some stainless, especially the kind that likes to hang on to a burr so persistently that you want to throttle it, it's a chore. 

Global and Shun, though, deserve their own categories of not-fun. Global, I just can't get any feel on the stone. Any skills I might have acquired go out the window, and I'm just flying blind. And they do like hanging onto a burr, though not as much as crap stainless does.

My Shun cleaver seems hard. Quite hard. Not hard in a good way, like a TF Denka. Hard in the same way as a Nakiri I bought 20 years ago, and threw away because I hated sharpening it so much. I don't know how to describe the experience of sharpening these, quite. Like sharpening concrete? There is no feel, and something about the edge you get when you finally succeed is unsatisfying. I'd like to say there's something wrong with the steel, or the way it was treated, but I am a long way from expert enough to say something like that. So I just have to settle for saying I hate everything about sharpening it.


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## M1k3 (Dec 28, 2020)

Sharpen a bunch of kmart and walmart budget bin knives, then you'll love Shun's VG-10. VG-MAX also.


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## daveb (Dec 28, 2020)

Hate is a strong word but they're won't be a Shun in my house because they're designed to appeal to the western housewife. 

They've got a lot of belly cause housewives are rockers. Hell even santoku are bastardized into a rocking profile for the housewife. Geometry is made to be pull through sharpener friendly - can get a sharp enough edge but will grow into a fatty faster than a new bride with wedding cake. Can't thin the thing (something no housewife even knows about) without scuffing up the faux dammy finish. 

They're difficult to sharpen but not impossible. I have a friend that is all Shun and I sharpen hers with the Gesshin diamond plates. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am.

They're designed to go on the wall and impress the neighbors. Cutting is secondary.


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## ian (Dec 28, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Sharpen a bunch of kmart and walmart budget bin knives, then you'll love Shun's VG-10. VG-MAX also.



Yea, this. After ripping grabby burrs off of 5-10 Cutco and Calphalon knives every day for a month, sharpening a Shun feels like a trip to the Bahamas.


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## Michi (Dec 28, 2020)

I have only one Shun, and that has an SG-2 core. Sharpens just like any other SG-2 knife and works fine. I admit that this is the odd one out though. It seems that pretty much all the other Shun's are made with VG-10/VG-Max.

I sharpen VG-10 fairly regularly (not Shun though). It's not a lot of fun, and quite slow. But nothing I couldn't live with.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 28, 2020)

Repaired & sharpened quite a few shuns. Can get a good edge on them. 

Think here folks get spoiled with really fine knives, why bother with cheap stainless. More so in production kitchen ease of sharpening & touch ups is important. 

As retired home cook use most carbons & stainless clad carbon core. Have a few mac's in the drawer never get used.

At school where Shuns were cheap I repaired a teacher's shuns, chips & broken tips. I kept one as payment it had worst chips so lost some of its height. Used it for breaking down Costco roast chickens.







Used this to carve turkey last couple years. Pre ww2 blank Sabatier.


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## juice (Dec 29, 2020)

Michi said:


> I have only one Shun, and that has an SG-2 core. Sharpens just like any other SG-2 knife and works fine. I admit that this is the odd one out though. It seems that pretty much all the other Shun's are made with VG-10/VG-Max.


Mine (Elite Chef's knife 8") is also SG-2. It's a decent knife.


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