# Munetoshi and Toyama Nakiri



## stoneray (Aug 24, 2016)

Thinking about getting one of the two. Both are longer than most Nakiris and seem very nice.

Anyone have either and can say something about them, how you like them, how they perform?

Or have both and compare them?


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 25, 2016)

I don't have both, but the grinds of the respective makers have been scrutinised to death in another thread. Others might want to jump in, and I think it was all in the context of gyuto but I think there was consensus that the Munetoshi has a relatively thick grind and would wedge in taller denser ingredients but food separation and edge retention was good. The Toyama is less prone to wedging and has also got decent food separation and well treated blue #2


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Aug 25, 2016)

I have the kasumi 210mm Toyama nakiri. The thing is huge. Feels like a thin Cleaver. I like it to slice onion leaves/light stuff as it is really high heeled at 64mm, so it harder to have the produce climbing up to your hand (pinch grip). Cuts well, blue steel that feels similar to Watanabe's. If you would like a smaller version, a good option is Watanabe's kurouchi 180mm nakiri. Stainless clad, well balanced and easier to maintain than Toyama's. Never used Munetoshi, though.


----------



## limpet (Aug 25, 2016)

I have both, but as previously mentioned in this thread, the Toyama is huge and heavy. Comparing it with a normal 165 mm nakiri is like comparing a 210/45 mm gyuto with a 270/55 mm gyuto. Read my short review of the Toyama here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...mi-Nakiri-165-and-Toyama-Noborikoi-Nakiri-210

The Munetoshi is my newest purchase so I haven't used it much yet, but it has many similarities with the gyuto which is discussed in this thread: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/27731-Munetoshi-Toshihirosaku-Toyama-how-are-they. It feels like a normal nakiri, just a bit longer.

Here's an old picture I have of some nakiri knives in different sizes. The Munetoshi is similar to the Wakui in size. Maybe doesn't look like that much size difference between the Wakui and Toyama, but that's just the surface. The added height and thickness at the spine of the Toyama adds a lot of steel & weight.


----------



## stoneray (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks for the feedback! Is the Toyama a knife you use a lot?

So the Munetoshi does tend to wedge? Thought it might be less because of the higher heel.


----------



## limpet (Aug 27, 2016)

Unfortunately, I have so many knives that no single knife gets used a lot.  I actually tend to use gyutos, santokus, bunkas etc more than nakiris. So it makes perfect sense that I have so many nakiris. :eyebrow:

Thinking of this thread I used the Toyama yesterday and today when cooking. It's really heavy, and blade heavy at that. Yesterday I was a bit tired in my wrist for some reason and that took a lot of fun out of it. Even though you find the balance point with your pinch grip, it takes a while to get relaxed with it and my wrist wasn't in the mood yesterday. Today it went better. The Toyama is really good with root veggies like carrots. No wedging and its weight really helps in this case. Also, with it being so tall, the grind gets taller as well. I cleaved a large parsnip lengthwise with it. It wasn't completely effortless because the parsnip was very woody and giving some friction, but it never got stuck and it resulted in a nice, clean cut.

The Munetoshi nakiri is perhaps a bit less wedgy than the Munetoshi gyuto, but as I said I haven't used it much yet. I haven't had time to sharpen it yet. Compared to more wedge-less knives such as Wakui, the Munetoshi wedges, but it's not terrible. The shinogi has shoulders which makes it wedge a bit when the thing you're cutting is tall enough. It's thin behind the edge. I have other knives that are much more wedgy, making carrots a really boring task, but the Munetoshi is not like that. As I see it, you trade a bit wedge-lessness for better food release. And I like that. Some knives like Wakui don't wedge, but gets a slight friction/sticking problem instead. I prefer good food release.

In fact, regarding friction/sticking, the Toyama is a bit like that (similar to Wakui) but its height and weight makes it less of a problem, imo.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Aug 28, 2016)

The 210mm kasumi Toyama feels much heavier than the 180mm kurouchi Watanabe nakiri with the advantage of the latest being stainless clad. They seem to make knives with the same design and steel (not sure about heat treatment), but if you are thinking about Toyama 210mm nakiri, it would be worth taking a look at Watanabe 180mm. I use and love both. Toyama for larger volume or stickier stuff.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/25072-Toyama-vs-Watanabe?highlight=Watanabe+Toyama


----------



## Noodle Soup (Sep 8, 2016)

Received my 210 Toyama from JNS today. While it is something I can easily fix, I was kind of surprised how dull the out of the box edge was. Will need to be touched up on a stone before dinner tonight for sure.


----------



## lumo (Sep 9, 2016)

Noodle Soup said:


> Received my 210 Toyama from JNS today. While it is something I can easily fix, I was kind of surprised how dull the out of the box edge was. Will need to be touched up on a stone before dinner tonight for sure.



Was that a nakiri, just double checking as I hadn't seen them in stock for a while and I've been wanting to try one out. Also surprised to hear that the edge came dull, not that big of a deal to me either but the gyuto and suji I have came screaming sharp.


----------



## DamageInc (Sep 9, 2016)

I've never had a knife from Maksim that wasn't a perfect edge out of the box. Strange. Luckily, Toyamas are a dream to sharpen.


----------



## Noodle Soup (Sep 9, 2016)

Yes, the nakari. I ordered it maybe two weeks ago from JNS. And you are right Damagelinc, it was very easy to bring up to speed on a 3000 grit stone. I seldom feel the need to go higher than that on working kitchen knife.


----------



## Noodle Soup (Sep 9, 2016)

I checked and I see it is not listed as out of stock. I must have got lucky!


----------



## Noodle Soup (Sep 10, 2016)

I meant to say "is now listed as out of stock"


----------



## bennyprofane (Sep 10, 2016)

I have the Munetoshi Nakiri and like it a lot. Love the rustic look, great steel and not wedgy at all, it's pretty thin at the spine (around 1,7mm). It's also quite inexpensive.


----------



## Matus (Jun 22, 2017)

May I ask what is the weight of the Munetoshi nakiri? I got the Toyama 180 a few months back and it is a fantastic knife, but a bit too heavy for me it seems ...


----------



## MastrAndre (Jun 22, 2017)

Matus said:


> May I ask what is the weight of the Munetoshi nakiri? I got the Toyama 180 a few months back and it is a fantastic knife, but a bit too heavy for me it seems ...



Ahoi,
If you'd like to get rid of the Toyama Nakiri, drop me a PM


----------



## TheCaptain (Jun 22, 2017)

Matus said:


> May I ask what is the weight of the Munetoshi nakiri? I got the Toyama 180 a few months back and it is a fantastic knife, but a bit too heavy for me it seems ...



I was NOT ready for this.

Based on your comments I was going to recommend a Waiku as that always felt more nimble in my hands.

Pulled that out along with my Mune (both 180mm) and weighed them.

Munetoshi - 183g
Waiku - 196g
Toyama measured in at 212g for comparison.

It kills me that none of you folks live closer, I'd be happy to lend them out for a test drive.


ETA - for what it's worth, the Toyama had the widest blade of any of my 180mm Nakiris. I hope to do a decent side by side comparison this weekend.


----------



## Choppin (Jun 22, 2017)

That's surprising Captain... I would certainly expect the Wakui to be the lightest of the 3 by a good margin. The Wakui 165mm shirogami #2 sold by Bernal is listed at 167g, which seems maybe midweight but certainly not heavy

Matus said before that his 180mm Toyama weighted a bit under 200g IIRC. Is that so? Big gap to 212g 

Anyway, I will take 2nd place behind MastrAndre on the Toyama


----------



## Matus (Jun 23, 2017)

Thank you guys and galls  Indeed my Toyama weights some 197g. I learned with it that I love the blade height (and Toyama knives). For a while I also had a 'normal' sized nakiri (165 mm and 150g) which I first found it a bit too light, but what I actually really wanted was more blade height.

I have some local interestees in the knife and should it not sell I will give you guys heads up, but since I am located in EU (and thus payed the price with VAT) I might not be able to offer you the knife that much cheaper as if you would buy it new. But enough about that, let's not turn this thread into a BST.


----------



## MastrAndre (Jun 23, 2017)

Matus said:


> Thank you guys and galls  Indeed my Toyama weights some 197g. I learned with it that I love the blade height (and Toyama knives). For a while I also had a 'normal' sized nakiri (165 mm and 150g) which I first found it a bit too light, but what I actually really wanted was more blade height.
> 
> I have some local interestees in the knife and should it not sell I will give you guys heads up, but since I am located in EU (and thus payed the price with VAT) I might not be able to offer you the knife that much cheaper as if you would buy it new. But enough about that, let's not turn this thread into a BST.



Well, I sit in the EU, not far from the geographic middle of Europe (Kremnica) [emoji6]

But yes, BTT

I'll get Watanabe 210mm Kasumi Nakiri next week, and I have a Mune Bunka 195 at home, after getting them together I'll may tell more, as Watanabes and Toyama are about 95% identical


----------



## Matus (Jun 23, 2017)

MastrAndre said:


> Well, I sit in the EU, not far from the geographic middle of Europe (Kremnica) [emoji6]



Vari dalsi Slovak na KKF?


----------



## Choppin (Jun 23, 2017)

@MastrAndre - what made you decide on a Watanabe nakiri instead of a Toyama?


----------



## MastrAndre (Jun 23, 2017)

Matus said:


> Vari dalsi Slovak na KKF?



Ani nie, som len Talian a ijem na Slovensku, v iline...
Ale to je skoro to iste [emoji6]


----------



## MastrAndre (Jun 23, 2017)

Choppin said:


> @MastrAndre - what made you decide on a Watanabe nakiri instead of a Toyama?



Well...I wanted a Toyama, but nothing available...then I dropped an email to Shinichi (I had at that time already several awesome knives from him) and asked if he could make me one...

End of the story: I didn't buy one Toyama nakiri, but 3 from Watanabe (180 KU, 210 KU, 210 Kasumi)...


----------



## Matus (Jun 23, 2017)

MastrAndre said:


> Ani nie, som len Talian a ijem na Slovensku, v iline...
> Ale to je skoro to iste [emoji6]



Let's take this to PMs


----------



## TheCaptain (Jun 23, 2017)

MastrAndre said:


> Well...I wanted a Toyama, but nothing available...then I dropped an email to Shinichi (I had at that time already several awesome knives from him) and asked if he could make me one...
> 
> End of the story: I didn't buy one Toyama nakiri, but 3 from Watanabe (180 KU, 210 KU, 210 Kasumi)...



Pictures pretty please? I only have the 165 KU.


----------



## MastrAndre (Jun 23, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> Pictures pretty please? I only have the 165 KU.



Pictures starting next week, the shipment is still on the way [emoji4][emoji4]


----------



## fatboylim (Jun 23, 2017)

MastrAndre said:


> Well...I wanted a Toyama, but nothing available...then I dropped an email to Shinichi (I had at that time already several awesome knives from him) and asked if he could make me one...
> 
> End of the story: I didn't buy one Toyama nakiri, but 3 from Watanabe (180 KU, 210 KU, 210 Kasumi)...



Well that is very nice! Do tell us how it went!


----------



## valgard (Jun 23, 2017)

very curious about the Watanabe nakiri polished


----------



## Choppin (Jun 23, 2017)

MastrAndre said:


> Well...I wanted a Toyama, but nothing available...then I dropped an email to Shinichi (I had at that time already several awesome knives from him) and asked if he could make me one...
> 
> End of the story: I didn't buy one Toyama nakiri, but 3 from Watanabe (180 KU, 210 KU, 210 Kasumi)...



Great! Looking forward to your impression about them. 

All three are stainless-clad? Do you know if Shinichi would make all-reactive blades (soft iron clad)?


----------



## fatboylim (Jun 23, 2017)

Choppin said:


> Great! Looking forward to your impression about them.
> 
> All three are stainless-clad? Do you know if Shinichi would make all-reactive blades (soft iron clad)?



Actually all watanabe will be iron clad if +180mm (exception might be the 180 Nakiri). Toyamas are iron clad only from what is out there.


----------



## Choppin (Jun 23, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Actually all watanabe will be iron clad if +180mm (exception might be the 180 Nakiri). Toyamas are iron clad only from what is out there.



I see. But does he offer iron clad 180 nakiris? I have only seen the stainless clad option in Watanabe's website.


----------



## valgard (Jun 24, 2017)

He offers a kintaro-ame clad (his damascus) nakiri which is fully reactive.


----------

