# W1 And W2 steel for deba



## adam92 (May 4, 2019)

Hi guys ,

Is it W1 steel too brittle for deba ?

I'm getting one 210mm deba for handling big fish, Just wondering should i getting the Hide W1 or just getting the aritsugu white two deba is enough for me .


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## refcast (May 4, 2019)

You could get the Hide W1 deba for filleting, and any other deba for chopping through heads and thick rib bones. That's what I would do, a fillet deba, that is thinner to go through flesh better, and a chopping deba that is thicker behind the edge, so it doesn't chip.

Or you could start with the white 2 deba with a thicker edge, and then get a deba with a thinner edge later. It's because sometimes I tend to go through rib bones with the tip, too, so I can't sharpen the tip thinner.


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## adam92 (May 4, 2019)

refcast said:


> You could get the Hide W1 deba for filleting, and any other deba for chopping through heads and thick rib bones. That's what I would do, a fillet deba, that is thinner to go through flesh better, and a chopping deba that is thicker behind the edge, so it doesn't chip.
> 
> Or you could start with the white 2 deba with a thicker edge, and then get a deba with a thinner edge later. It's because sometimes I tend to go through rib bones with the tip, too, so I can't sharpen the tip thinner.




I have a 180mm double bevel deba b2 steel, i feel is hard to cut thought the snapper bone, i only can get one more deba, is it w1 much more brittle than the the w 2?


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## refcast (May 4, 2019)

Most "good" heat treat of W1 are more brittle than W2. I wouldn't definitively know though. Personally, I like steel that gets sharper and then I put a more tough edge on it if it chips, or at risk of chipping.

If it is for cutting up the snapper bone, just put a thicker edge on the deba, no matter what the steel. Chipping issues only arise if the edge geometry is too thin for the task. Also, single bevel deba is can be less tough than double bevel deba, depending on how it is sharpened, so note that. The toughness depends on how much metal is behind the edge to support it, and on the single bevel deba, the metal is only in the center and off to one side, as opposed to the double bevel deba, which has metal on both sides (2 bevels).

Although it is for cutting fish bone . . . I know there are meat cleaver-type knives for animal bone, so those could work for it, but I don't know if it's appropriate.

I guess you're just looking for an easier time cutting through snapper bone. Between the two, I would get the Hide deba because the steel should get sharper, and then put a thicker edge on it so it doesn't chip. The sharper edge will bite into the fish bone better instead of maybe sliding or bouncing off a bit, and the thickness will prevent it from chipping, which is what I would do. The thickness will make it wedge a bit more, but I prefer wedging to not being able to actually cut. Some people here also like steels that are tougher and geometries that are thinner.


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## adam92 (May 4, 2019)

Thanks you so much for describe about steel, I'll go for w1 deba and put the microbevel on the knife to make chipping less happen, & use the double bevel for crayfish.

For me, i feel like 180mm deba is too short especially handling big fish, maybe 210mm is better.


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## refcast (May 4, 2019)

When you put on the micro bevel, make sure it is thick enough. . . before cutting into the snapper bones, try something that is less hard or dense first (avocado seeds? I don't really know . . .). My method would be do place the knife on top and then tap gently. If I tap and the knife feels too fragile, then I make the edge thicker or more obtuse (but still sharp). When you tap it should feel like the bones split apart. If they don't, then make the edge thicker or more sturdy, because what's happening is the edge is to thin and can't take the force, so it bends and then chips out at the edge. If you really force it too hard, then a big chip comes out. 

Which is why I suggest tapping and getting to know the knife first and checking carefully after each cut, because fish meat and stuff on the blade can cover the edge and hide chipping before you clean the knife. Then you can go full-speed. The height, length, and weight of the taller deba will help a lot in these tougher cuts.


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## adam92 (May 4, 2019)

refcast said:


> When you put on the micro bevel, make sure it is thick enough. . . before cutting into the snapper bones, try something that is less hard or dense first (avocado seeds? I don't really know . . .). My method would be do place the knife on top and then tap gently. If I tap and the knife feels too fragile, then I make the edge thicker or more obtuse (but still sharp). When you tap it should feel like the bones split apart. If they don't, then make the edge thicker or more sturdy, because what's happening is the edge is to thin and can't take the force, so it bends and then chips out at the edge. If you really force it too hard, then a big chip comes out.
> 
> Which is why I suggest tapping and getting to know the knife first and checking carefully after each cut, because fish meat and stuff on the blade can cover the edge and hide chipping before you clean the knife. Then you can go full-speed. The height, length, and weight of the taller deba will help a lot in these tougher cuts.




I'll check the micro bevel is is not thick enought, previously i will put a fine hair line, if not enough maybe lift lower?


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## adam92 (May 4, 2019)

Thanks, usually i put a fine hair line microbevel on the deba, if is not enought should i lower the angle?


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## refcast (May 4, 2019)

If the edge isn't enough, you either keep on sharpening at the same angle to make it thicker in width, or increase the angle of the microbevel. Whatever works with you or makes sense. This is generally how I approach it.


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## Nemo (May 4, 2019)

I assume that you are talking about white paper (shiroko/ shirogami) steel rather than AISI W2 (a fairly simple tool steel which also can be made into great knives)?

I reckon the HT is more important than whether it's shiroko 1 or 2.


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## adam92 (May 5, 2019)

refcast said:


> If the edge isn't enough, you either keep on sharpening at the same angle to make it thicker in width, or increase the angle of the microbevel. Whatever works with you or makes sense. This is generally how I approach it.



Ok, i will test the knife & see how's going on.


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## adam92 (May 5, 2019)

Nemo said:


> I assume that you are talking about white paper (shiroko/ shirogami) steel rather than AISI W2 (a fairly simple tool steel which also can be made into great knives)?
> 
> I reckon the HT is more important than whether it's shiroko 1 or 2.



I'll choose the Hide brand as i know mr Yamamoto knife is very good & go for W1.


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## Nemo (May 5, 2019)

adam92 said:


> I'll choose the Hide brand as i know mr Yamamoto knife is very good & go for W1.


From your reply, I wasn't sure if you realise that W2 steel is different to white (paper) 2 steel.

W2 is an AISI specified steel, while white2 is a Japanese steel.

I assume that you mean "white2" when you say "W2"?


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## adam92 (May 5, 2019)

Nemo said:


> From your reply, I wasn't sure if you realise that W2 steel is different to white (paper) 2 steel.
> 
> W2 is an AISI specified steel, while white2 is a Japanese steel.
> 
> I assume that you mean "white2" when you say "W2"?



I didn't write clearly, actually is japanese white 2 steel, i feel white one is sharper & that's what i need , everyday handling many fish .


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## Nemo (May 5, 2019)

adam92 said:


> I didn't write clearly, actually is japanese white 2 steel, i feel white one is sharper & that's what i need , everyday handling many fish .


I thought you probably did mean whire paper steel.


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## adam92 (May 5, 2019)

Yes, I means Shirogami japanese steel


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## Nemo (May 5, 2019)

adam92 said:


> Yes, I means Shirogami japanese steel


[emoji106]


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## Stnakamu (Aug 28, 2019)

My b2 Deba chips pretty badly when going through bone. I think when you see butchers cutting through bone they are entering in a knotch in the bone so it’s kind of going through the joint instead of the bone?


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