# Yoshikane v Mac v Takayuki



## chrisg (Mar 3, 2012)

I am looking for a Chef's Knife, I cook probably every day, though I am no pro-chef. Don't really have a budget.

I have been looking at the:

Mac Ultimate Chef 9"
Yoshikane 240mm Gyuto Hammer Finished
Takayuki Grand Chef 240mm

Are there pros and cons for these knives? Is any one better? I don't really have a budget, but I don't think its necessary for me to spend more than $300 for a Chef's knife as I am no Iron Chef (though can make probably one of the best omelets!)

Also, are there recommended cutting boards for use with these knives? 

Thank you

PS - If there is a better alternative to these knives I'd like to know - in my research these were all very highly regarded however the posts that they came from were a few years old.


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## Candlejack (Mar 3, 2012)

Well, i'd never go with a mac.
They're easy to sharpen and you don't have to worry about them, but i find them mediocre at best.


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## The hekler (Mar 3, 2012)

BOARDsmith as far as a cutting board, custom made pieces by a member here that are head and shoulders above anything else. As for the knives I haven't used any of the ones you mentioned so I can't speak to one being better than the other.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 3, 2012)

Welcome to the forum.

To preserve the edge as long as possible, end-grain maple, cherry or walnut boards are preferred. The BoardSMITH brand is the most recommended. David is a craftsman making these boards pretty much one at a time. (http://www.theboardsmith.com). If you want to skimp on a board, then look at Boos or another maker. Try to stay away from bamboo - it's not wood, it's grass, and there is a lot of glue used to make the boards, which is hard on your knife. Hard rubber, like SaniTuff is also acceptable.

I'd suggest that you do a bit more research into your selection of a chef's knife (gyuto). Not that there is anything wrong with the three you mention, but there are a lot of other knives that, in my opinion, are better values. Do a little more reading of the threads in this forum and you'll see what I mean.

If I had to pick one of the three, it would be the Sakai Takayuki Grand Cheff. I have a Yoshikane, and it is a good knife, but it is not anywhere near as light and nimble as the Grand Cheff. The MAC is a good workhorse in a pro environment, and it isn't a bad knife, just not a great knife.

Don't forget that any knife is only as good as its edge, and budget for a waterstone to sharpen it. If you are just starting out, a combination stone line the King 1000/6000 is a good stone to start with.

Rick


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## tk59 (Mar 3, 2012)

I've used all but the GrandChef and as others have said, they are okay. I actually don't like the Ultimate series as much as other lines of MAC. They basically just have big, heavy handles and thicker blades. You want "the best" 240 gyuto under $300? I'd probably go with a Kochi from Japanese Knife Imports. The only drawback for you might be the fact that it is not stain resistant. For stainless, I would probably go with Gesshin Ginga stainless or save myself some cash and go with a Suisin INOX. I tried one recently and I have to say, I was pretty impressed with the performance and fit and finish independent of cost.


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## Peco (Mar 3, 2012)

I got yoshikane 150, 210 in SKD12 and a 240 SLD in black damascus. Easy to sharpen and cuts like a dream. On top of that yoshi's can be bought for a reasonable price. Take a look here: www.japanesenaturalstones.com ... this is Maxim's store (from this forum). He has a few SKD's in stock ... if you can live with custom specs. instead of standard.

And ... welcome


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## Cadillac J (Mar 3, 2012)

I liked my Grand Cheff early on, but sold it after trying other lasers like Konosuke HD/white#2 which you can pretty much get for the same price now and had better edge retention.

Currently I have the Yoshikane SKD hammered and am loving it--its a more robust knife overall with no flex versus the thinner knives, but the geometry is awesome and the SKD steel holds an edge longer than my other steels. Just out of the knives you listed, I would go with the Yosh.

However, there are so many other options outside of what you mentioned, but its almost impossible to narrow it down without any other info: yo/wa handle, curvy/flatter profile, carbon/stainless/semi-stainless, etc.


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## chrisg (Mar 3, 2012)

Great, you all made this even harder on me! 

See, after a lot of research, most of which was done in this forum I believe, those were the three brads I thought everyone was raving about!

Ok, so:
Konosuke
SuisinINOX
Gesshin Ginga
Kochi 

These are now the brands I should be looking at... anything else to add to the list???? :scared4::razz:


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## Peco (Mar 3, 2012)

chrisg said:


> Great, you all made this even harder on me!
> 
> See, after a lot of research, most of which was done in this forum I believe, those were the three brads I thought everyone was raving about!
> 
> ...



? You got 3 answers suggesting yoshi = most recommended - and then you change your mind and it's not even in your list ... now I'm the one who's confused


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## chrisg (Mar 3, 2012)

Haha, well since there were all those other suggestions, and also the comment of "knives of better value", I thought I'd continue my research. But now I am also looking into the rest of the lineup of the Yoshikane as well.


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## tk59 (Mar 3, 2012)

The truth of the matter is there are very few people that have tried a lot of knives and still love their Yoshikanes. I have one and it's a nice knife but I'd rather use a TKC/CarboNEXT, Glestain, Suisin INOX, Hattori HD, and the list goes on. All of these knives are cheaper, too. I have friend with a western version and the same conclusion. She prefers a Kanetsugu Pro M/Pro J which are also less expensive. I'd also consider a Blazen (or Akifusa/Artisan), CarboNEXT, Inazuma, etc. Good luck!! Yoshihiro is another nice one. Similar to the Kon/Gesshin Ginga is the Sakai Yusuke. This is reminding me of the first time I decided to "upgrade" from a Glestain. The options were bewildering, haha.


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## Cadillac J (Mar 3, 2012)

tk59 said:


> The truth of the matter is there are very few people that have tried a lot of knives and still love their Yoshikanes. I have one and it's a nice knife but I'd rather use a TKC/CarboNEXT, Glestain, Suisin INOX, Hattori HD, and the list goes on. All of these knives are cheaper, too.



Sorry TK, but I don't think you can make that claim as a 'truth'. I've bought and sold many knives, and have been an advocate of lasers for a long time (and still am), but I'm really enjoying my SKD Yoshikane a lot and would recommend them to anyone.

I love my CarboNext and probably prefer it over the Yosh most times, but it is not because I consider it to be better...its just my preference for lighter/thinner knives, but others prefer the opposite.

The V2 Yoshikane that I'm shipping to Len next week has some of the best geometry I've ever seen, and is one of the best natural cutters I've come across--many people do still love their Yoshikanes.


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## add (Mar 3, 2012)

Another Yoshi lover here.
I can't speak to the other two knives on your short list.

Are there thinner, higher performance cutters?
Yes, there always is _the next_ thinner, lighter, and better value knife.

For a great edge holding, balanced knife where grams aren't critical to a home cook, it fits a large niche here. 

The allure for me on this knife remains the _Wabi_ of this knife though--
Grey two-toned steel, dark patina on the edge, the hammer marks, excellent finish work- rounded spine and choil. 
Yes, even the weight, for me at least, adds to the essence and character of the knife.

Picking it up just feels like old world Japan strength... the '57 Chevy of _mighty gyutos._

Damn, I think I just went and made myself horny to use it tonight.


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## bikehunter (Mar 3, 2012)

add said:


> Another Yoshi lover here.
> I can't speak to the other two knives on your short list.
> 
> Are there thinner, higher performance cutters?
> ...



What "add" said!!!!!


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## G-rat (Mar 3, 2012)

Horny huh? Be careful you don't cut yourself...



add said:


> Another Yoshi lover here.
> I can't speak to the other two knives on your short list.
> 
> Are there thinner, higher performance cutters?
> ...


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## Peco (Mar 3, 2012)

I have had: Carter, heiji, mac ... and I now have: shigefusa, nobuyasu, aoki ... and I still like my 3 yoshi's a lot!


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## Amon-Rukh (Mar 3, 2012)

I can't comment on most of the knives being listed here, but I will echo the previous sentiments about the Mac: I own a chef series gyuto and it's a very serviceable knife. It's pretty much good in every respect but without ever crossing into "great" territory. There are definitely more exciting options out there!


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## NO ChoP! (Mar 3, 2012)

The Mac Superior and Pro line are very good entry level Japanese knives. I would take a Mac over a Shun or Global, even a Tojiro or Fujiwara stainless any day.

You wont go wrong with any of your new choices; the question is, what do you want in a knife? Laser? Mighty? Carbon? Stainless? Wa? Western? Etc...

The $300 park is very large, with some that may be considered iconic even...


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## boar_d_laze (Mar 3, 2012)

Going back to your old list, the AEB-L Grand Cheff is a good knife which sharpens extremely easily. The MAC Ultimate is fantastically overpriced, but the MAC Pro is another very solid, "good first knife," attractively priced, and well supported. The Yoshikane does nothing for me. In that general price range and class of knives (yo, stainless, mass produced), I think the Kikuichi ITK, MAC Pro, Masamoto VG are top of the list; and if you're already a good sharpener you can add the Kagayaki CarboNext to the list.

If you're looking for a "first, very good chef's knife" with the idea of using it primarily for cooking, the idea that a knife isn't exciting won't bother you much. If, on the other hand, "pride of ownership," and/or hobbyism plays a significant part in your choice, say so.

In your next group of "three brads" (which presumably means "four knives"), I'm not sure whether you're referring to the wa or yo models. In any case, the Gesshin, Konosuke HD and Suisun are all excellent lasers -- but they're not exactly fungible. There are a few other excellent knives in this class. Tadatsuna makes excellent wa and yo lasers, but somehow Tad didn't make your list. And in wa only, the Konosuke Shirogami is a helluva good deal. 

For your part, you're not making this any easier. If you want advice that's tailored to you, you must offer some information about yourself and either go into some detail your knife likes and dislikes or admit that you're a seeker who hasn't really formed opinions. The alternative is continuing to offer lists of things you might or might not like while a bunch of guys tell you what they like for themselves -- not the sort of thing which is actually helpful.

BDL


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## bikehunter (Mar 3, 2012)

Bwaha...excellent advice, but when was the last time you heard anyone except a lawyer use the word "fungible", BDL? ;-) Kinda like...temerity.


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## Deckhand (Mar 3, 2012)

boar_d_laze said:


> Going back to your old list, the AEB-L Grand Cheff is a good knife which sharpens extremely easily. The MAC Ultimate is fantastically overpriced, but the MAC Pro is another very solid, "good first knife," attractively priced, and well supported. The Yoshikane does nothing for me. In that general price range and class of knives (yo, stainless, mass produced), I think the Kikuichi ITK, MAC Pro, Masamoto VG are top of the list; and if you're already a good sharpener you can add the Kagayaki CarboNext to the list.
> 
> If you're looking for a "first, very good chef's knife" with the idea of using it primarily for cooking, the idea that a knife isn't exciting won't bother you much. If, on the other hand, "pride of ownership," and/or hobbyism plays a significant part in your choice, say so.
> 
> ...



In this group of three brands aforementioned why are they in fact not fungible dollar value or personal preference. If dollar value is omitted which order would you rate them. Or referencing your next statement other knives in this class. What would a reasonable person consider the ultimate laser if price was a moot issue.


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## EdipisReks (Mar 3, 2012)

tk59 said:


> The truth of the matter is there are very few people that have tried a lot of knives and still love their Yoshikanes.



i've tried and owned a lot of knives, and i still love my V2 Yoshikane. a different knife steel (and it's kitaeji, not hammer), but i'm sure the geometry and profile is very similar between the V2 knives and the tool steel knives.


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## tk59 (Mar 3, 2012)

EdipisReks said:


> i've tried and owned a lot of knives, and i still love my V2 Yoshikane. a different knife steel (and it's kitaeji, not hammer), but i'm sure the geometry and profile is very similar between the V2 knives and the tool steel knives.


Yeah, I did make it sound like Yoshikanes are bad knives. While I didn't really mean that, I would still say more people consider their Yoshikanes to be their second string knives rather than their first string in that general price range for one reason or another.


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## EdipisReks (Mar 3, 2012)

you don't like the Shig/Yoshi geometry, though, right?


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## obtuse (Mar 3, 2012)

my first real Japanese knife was a yoshikane SKD 240mm gyuto in hammer finish. I have owned many other knives since then. I will never sell my yoshikane. I still think it's one of the nicest knives I own; I even bought one for my dad. my only concern for a new user would be that it chips easily. if you're rough with your knives I would look elsewhere. this warning applies to many other knives too. I would plan on having one nice knife and one beater for going through chicken bones etc. I don't think you'll be disappointed in yoshikane, konosuke, or any knife that JKI sells. I would like to suggest considering the CarboNext line at JCK if you want to get into Japanese knives and not spend to much money at first.


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## Andrew H (Mar 3, 2012)

There's a big difference between the yoshikane kasumi knives and the yoshikane hammer finished knives.


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## bikehunter (Mar 3, 2012)

Andrew H said:


> There's a big difference between the yoshikane kasumi knives and the yoshikane hammer finished knives.



Maybe I missed a post. I thought the hammer finished ones were what we were talking about.


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## EdipisReks (Mar 3, 2012)

Andrew H said:


> There's a big difference between the yoshikane kasumi knives and the yoshikane hammer finished knives.



is there? i've only used my V2, never a hammer finished.


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## tk59 (Mar 3, 2012)

I have no personal experience with Yoshikane other than the hammer finished variety, myself. My own is a nice knife but I really have no desire to pick it up and use it. When I bought it I thought it would be Heiji-like but my Heiji is a significantly better cutter.


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## SpikeC (Mar 3, 2012)

Just get a Takeda.


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## quantumcloud509 (Mar 3, 2012)

SpikeC said:


> Just get a Takeda.



lus1::doublethumbsup::thumbsup::happymug:


I LOVE my Takeda Guyoto in 270mm. Try Takeda!

:funfunfunfun:


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## Crothcipt (Mar 3, 2012)

I have 2 Takada's love both. One I don't use cause of a chip I did on a steel. (found out later that is a big no-no with that steel):beatinghead: I will be getting a re-handle soon for both.

But you never asked about Takada, so that isn't allowed by what you asked at first. :spin chair:


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## bikehunter (Mar 3, 2012)

Takada is clearly a superior knife, but I don't recall the OP expressing any interest in expensive, thin, tall at the heel carbon knives. Seems to me Takeda is just about as far as you get from a Yoshi hammered. Shrug


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## Crothcipt (Mar 3, 2012)

I paid under 100 for both. good ol ebay.


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## chrisg (Mar 4, 2012)

Ok so after much crazed recommendations this is what I have NOW narrowed it down to. Further suggestions??:

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=86376 = This Yoshikane,
or Takeda Gyuto AS 240mm

Now between these 2 knives, which has better steel and reputation?


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## Peco (Mar 4, 2012)

From what I've heard, the yoshi with western handle are thicker than standard - a real beater. Never tried Takeda but I could imagine that's what people here would recommend.


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## Andrew H (Mar 4, 2012)

bikehunter said:


> Maybe I missed a post. I thought the hammer finished ones were what we were talking about.


People have been comparing both. 



EdipisReks said:


> is there? i've only used my V2, never a hammer finished.


I should have said between Yoshikane's different lines. If you look at one of his Damascus ku ones an compare it to your v2 you wouldn't think the maker was the same.


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## tk59 (Mar 4, 2012)

The Takeda is a better cutter, gets sharper easier but I think it's less versatile, chippy and the cladding and kuro-uchi finish can be problematic. I pick neither.


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## RRLOVER (Mar 4, 2012)

I have purchased and sold a few knives and I still own a yoshi skd 240mm Wa.


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## NO ChoP! (Mar 4, 2012)

I think we still need to guide this guy to answer the basic questions.... A Takeda and a yo Yoshi are different monsters.

It's like asking should I get a Honda Pilot or a Volkswagon Jetta; both may be great vehicles, but they're in completely different classes.


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## chrisg (Mar 4, 2012)

I appreciate that statement NoChop. Yes perhaps I am looking at it in the wrong way (looking for the best knife) but really my needs aren't anything substantial, I simply want a great knife. I'm certainly willing to pay for quality as well. I just want a nice clean knife that can cut tomatoes into paper, cut meats, and not break and be crappy and get dull after a few uses. If it looks good, all the better. Now, I dont know if this helps, but I am actually quite talented with water stones, however I don't think I'd ever sharpen them myself, I think I'd simply send the knife back to factory to get resharpened.


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## quantumcloud509 (Mar 4, 2012)

The Takeda will cut your tomatoes this as paper, does cut meats well, but will slightly chip in certain situations from my experience but in both cases I was being dumb. It comes with a very nice blade OTB. After I got it resharpened just because, it took on an even crazier edge. Its been a few weeks since I had it sharpened and its still crazy sharp and I use it +-12hours a day. Dont know about the other knife but sounds pretty good too. One note is that the Takeda will start surface rust if you don't wipe it down after each use (easy to do, and worth it to me) I really like the korouchi(sp?) finish on it. It has a very rustic feeling to it.


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## EdipisReks (Mar 4, 2012)

i really love my Takeda 240, but i had to put in a lot of work to get it how i wanted it. i'm not sure i'd recommend it to somebody who is "quite talented with water stones" but who would "simply send [it] back to the factory to be resharpened."


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## bikehunter (Mar 4, 2012)

A few questions, chrisg. What stones do you use/own? What type/brand knives did you use to become "quite talented? with waterstones? You've described yourself as a home cook who cooks every day. How often do you sharpen your knives? Once a week? Once a month? Twice a year? I ask that question because clearly, what ever that number is, you would have to multiply by the cost of sending your knife back to the factory for sharpening. Even the cost of one resharpening by the factory, considering shipping cost, seems excessive/unecessary to me if you are good with waterstones. Why would you not sharpen them yourself? Just curious, as I can't quite get my head around your strategy.


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## chrisg (Mar 4, 2012)

I have a Norton set (220,1000,4000,8000)

I have sharpened several knife brands over the course of 3 years or so, several knife types as well. They have all come out very sharp - and I have had a "Knife expert" tell me that my sharpening technique was quite good. Really thats nor here nor there, I really don't think I'd like to sharpen it myself because I like things the way they were designed by manufacturer. Now, maybe this method of thinking is not very good with Kitchen Knives (as I certainly don't know much about them). And using it every day for maybe a dinner in the evening type deal I was probably going to sharpen it every couple of months. 

If I am way off in this, by all means let me know.


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## bikehunter (Mar 4, 2012)

Well..."way off" is probably a little harsh. ;-) If you have been pleased with your sharpening results, it simply makes little sense, to me, to pay someone else do it. Most who get the Japanese knife bug eventually get the sharpening bug as well. Unless you're very heavy handed, it seems unlikely that you will destroy the design of the manufacturer. Shrug


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## Johnny.B.Good (Mar 4, 2012)

boar_d_laze said:


> For your part, you're not making this any easier. If you want advice that's tailored to you, you must offer some information about yourself and either go into some detail your knife likes and dislikes or admit that you're a seeker who hasn't really formed opinions. The alternative is continuing to offer lists of things you might or might not like while a bunch of guys tell you what they like for themselves -- not the sort of thing which is actually helpful.



+1

With a budget likes yours, it is impossible to narrow the field of options without some more help from you.

Read this thread and fill out the questionnaire, and you may get a whole new list of suggestions from the members here.


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## add (Mar 4, 2012)

tk59 said:


> The truth of the matter is there are very few people that have tried a lot of knives and still love their Yoshikanes.






RRLOVER said:


> I have purchased and sold a few knives and I still own a yoshi skd 240mm Wa.




C'mon RRLOVER, how can _that_ be? 
The truth of the matter there isn't even a full dozen testimonials here... :wink:


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## EdipisReks (Mar 4, 2012)

chrisg said:


> ;87415Now, maybe this method of thinking is not very good with Kitchen Knives (as I certainly don't know much about them).



many Japanese knives aren't sharp when they are shipped out. some aren't even beveled. you are expected to put your own preferred edge style on the knife. the Yoshi will be sharp, as will the Takeda, but the idea of using them "as manufactured" is silly. especially with Takeda, since there is such a large variation between his knives.


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## boar_d_laze (Mar 4, 2012)

Deckhand said:


> In this group of three brands aforementioned why are they in fact not fungible dollar value or personal preference. If dollar value is omitted which order would you rate them. Or referencing your next statement other knives in this class. What would a reasonable person consider the ultimate laser if price was a moot issue.



To the extent dollar value and personal preference differ, the knives are not -- by definition -- fungible. 

Of all the lasers I've tried I prefer the Konosuke HD for its feel on the board (profile), feel in the hand (handle), feel on the stones, and semi-stainless ease of maintenance. After the Kono, perhaps the Tadatsuna. However, I'm not everyone and certainly not chrisg (the OP) which is why his feedback could be helpful. 

So far all we know is that he's interested in some fairly high-end, high-performance knives, but doesn't have much of an idea of how to sharpen them. From that I infer -- whether correctly or incorrectly -- that he's also not much of a knife technician. I'd like to know what his plans are in terms of how much time and money he's willing to commit to sharpening, and how much time to knife skills. But there's already so much "buy this or that" noise in this thread it doesn't seem like there's much chance of a meaningful dialogue. 

BDL


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## SpikeC (Mar 4, 2012)

bikehunter said:


> Takada is clearly a superior knife, but I don't recall the OP expressing any interest in expensive, thin, tall at the heel carbon knives. Seems to me Takeda is just about as far as you get from a Yoshi hammered. Shrug



The reason I said Takeda, aside from the fact that I like mine, was to see just how specific his desires were.


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## slowtyper (Mar 4, 2012)

bikehunter said:


> Well..."way off" is probably a little harsh. ;-) If you have been pleased with your sharpening results, it simply makes little sense, to me, to pay someone else do it. Most who get the Japanese knife bug eventually get the sharpening bug as well. Unless you're very heavy handed, it seems unlikely that you will destroy the design of the manufacturer. Shrug



I don't mean to be rude but I think "way off" is pretty accurate...I mean where would you even send it? yeah by all means send it Dave or someone to get it sharpened, but send a knife back to Sakai? The maker will probably be confused also!

I think the concept of "as the manufacturer intended" doesn't really apply...your knife, when brand new, will come probably sharper than 95% of people's knives but not sharp compared to what it could (and should) be with proper sharpening.

To me I think you can just pick any of the knives in your list (your new list) and you will be more than happy with any of them.


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## Deckhand (Mar 4, 2012)

boar_d_laze said:


> To the extent dollar value and personal preference differ, the knives are not -- by definition -- fungible.
> 
> Of all the lasers I've tried I prefer the Konosuke HD for its feel on the board (profile), feel in the hand (handle), feel on the stones, and semi-stainless ease of maintenance. After the Kono, perhaps the Tadatsuna. However, I'm not everyone and certainly not chrisg (the OP) which is why his feedback could be helpful.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your opinions. Currently, I am considering a 270 Sakai Yusuke in Swedish stainless I am test driving. It feels like a natural extension. Also, I have a Rodrigue 270 gyuto being made. I have heard nothing but good things about Konosuke. I am always interested in people's opinions of a perfect gyuto. I am much more interested in wa handled thin bladed gyutos.


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## chrisg (Mar 4, 2012)

I am no knife technician. While I know how to use a waterstone set very well, I can also say I am no pro-sharpener, maintainer, etc. Money is not really a problem in any degree, but time is not something I'm willing to commit to drastically. I do not want to have to sharpen this knife once a week. Once every month is fine.


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## Deckhand (Mar 4, 2012)

Since the price increase misono ux10 is not as popular, but may be one to add to your list with your criteria. I will probably catch hell for this, but excellent fit and finish, balance, and edge retention. Read up on the ux10 240mm gyuto. Good luck on your journey.


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## NO ChoP! (Mar 4, 2012)

Maybe seeing that you can sharpen knives very well, yet you don't want to sharpen your own (??????????), you should check out a steel that has superior edge retention. PM or MC, like ZDP-189 or SG2 or R2..... or maybe since money is not really a problem to any degree; cowry X!


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## slowtyper (Mar 4, 2012)

chrisg said:


> I am no knife technician. While I know how to use a waterstone set very well, I can also say I am no pro-sharpener, maintainer, etc. Money is not really a problem in any degree, but time is not something I'm willing to commit to drastically. I do not want to have to sharpen this knife once a week. Once every month is fine.


 IMO, it sounds like for your use, you could just do a yearly or twice yearly sharpening by sending it away and be perfectly fine with the results. 

Maybe get two knives so you have something to use when you send the other away.


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## slowtyper (Mar 4, 2012)

NO ChoP! said:


> Maybe seeing that you can sharpen knives very well, yet you don't want to sharpen your own (??????????), you should check out a steel that has superior edge retention. PM or MC, like ZDP-189 or SG2 or R2..... or maybe since money is not really a problem to any degree; cowry X!



When I first had an interest in knives, if I had come on here and read this post I would just be confused and put off. I don't mean it as an insult, just that it just doesn't make any sense to most people that aren't us, IMO.


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## NO ChoP! (Mar 4, 2012)

Sorry, it is more harsh than I intended. I was chuckling when I typed it, but that clearly doesn't come through when I re-read it...

But the real point was that there are knives whose strong point is edge retention, since this became an area of debate....


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## bikehunter (Mar 4, 2012)

chrisg said:


> I am no knife technician. While I know how to use a waterstone set very well, I can also say I am no pro-sharpener, maintainer, etc. Money is not really a problem in any degree, but time is not something I'm willing to commit to drastically. I do not want to have to sharpen this knife once a week. Once every month is fine.



Sounds to me like you have more discretionary income than time. you've had a ton of recommendation, almost any one of which would probably please you. Why not buy two or three, send them off to Dave when they're dull, pick the one you like (or two) and sell the others on the forum. :biggrin:


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## SpikeC (Mar 4, 2012)

Just another point about the Takedas, not to belabor this, but I think the possible drawbacks are overstated, in my experience. The first thing I cut with my gyuto was a chunk of crusty bread, and the super sharp edge did chip, although it was small. I sharpened it out and it has not chipped again in the last year. Mine has a stable finish that has held up very well, and I don't have to sharpen it unless I get bored. For all of the uses that a home cook puts a knife to I have not encountered anything that this knife does not excel at, with the possible exception of crusty bread unless a microbevel is added. 
And as for carbon being tough to maintain, with casual wiping during use I don't see a problem. 
YMMV, of course, but I doubt it.


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## chrisg (Mar 5, 2012)

I will buy a couple knives then and post my experiences and results when they come in. Thanks for all the help and insight everyone.


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## add (Mar 5, 2012)

Hanging "fungible" into a kitchen knife thread _and_ disillusioned about "meaningful dialogue".

:stinker:


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## slowtyper (Mar 5, 2012)

dang I thought it had something to do with how well it cut mushrooms


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## quantumcloud509 (Mar 5, 2012)

Moneys not an issue? Contribute to the forum!!!


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## tk59 (Mar 5, 2012)

chrisg said:


> I am no knife technician. While I know how to use a waterstone set very well, I can also say I am no pro-sharpener, maintainer, etc. Money is not really a problem in any degree, but time is not something I'm willing to commit to drastically. I do not want to have to sharpen this knife once a week. Once every month is fine.


FYI, it takes a 5 min touch up every couple of weeks for a heavy home use knife to maintain top cutting performance. It takes a lot longer than that to ship a knife, lol.


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## boar_d_laze (Mar 5, 2012)

tk59 said:


> FYI, it takes a 5 min touch up every couple of weeks for a heavy home use knife to maintain top cutting performance. It takes a lot longer than that to ship a knife, lol.



+1. A very enthusiastic +1.

Look Chris, if you can sharpen tools and pocket knives to the Norton 8K level, you can learn to sharpen kitchen knives with a little bit of -- not too steep -- learning curve. It will require some learning, and Nortons aren't necessarily the best choice for kitchen knives, but if you can already sharpen it doesn't make much sense for you to send your knives out unless you need something very special done.

Also, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me for you to buy a bunch of different knives to find one really good gyuto. For one thing, not only is there no one best knife for everyone, there's not even one best knife for you. With a little bit of dialogue we should be able to narrow down the universe of excellent choices to a small number from which you can more or less randomly choose something which will suit you extremely well. 

With some idea of what suits and doesn't suit you, we should be able to come up with a few good choices you can choose between. For instance:

It's difficult -- perhaps impossible -- to come up with a better choice than the Masamoto KS if you can live with carbon's neediness.

If you don't want a carbon blade, but are sufficiently interested in improving your technique enough to work on keeping your knife square to the cut, one of the stainless or semi-stainless "laser" wa-gyutos should suit.

Etc., etc., etc.

BDL


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