# Is this Zwilling Kramer okay?



## 1ststatestereo (Jan 4, 2017)

Hello, 

I just received this 10" knife. I notice it isn't completely flat. I am just reading about distal tapers (did I spell that right) but I don't know if this is too much. It doesn't bug me when I'm cutting but it'd bug me if it was a defect, you know?

Can you help me out?

thank you.


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## Marek07 (Jan 4, 2017)

Welcome to the forum. 
The ZKramer is a damn fine knife IMO. The distal taper is a desired feature for many applications - not a fault at all.


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## strumke (Jan 4, 2017)

Looks like the tip is bent a bit. You can try to bend it back.

The distal taper should be an even tapering down the length of the blade, but still straight. If you drew a line down the middle of the spine it would bisect the knife pretty much evenly.


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## James (Jan 4, 2017)

Is the edge straight? If so, leave it alone.


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## Marek07 (Jan 4, 2017)

Oops! Didn't notice the tip issue. Only visible in the 2nd photo not in the 3rd so it _could_ be OK. Is the surface even? @James' advice is sound.


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## 1ststatestereo (Jan 4, 2017)

Marek07 said:


> Oops! Didn't notice the tip issue. Only visible in the 2nd photo not in the 3rd so it _could_ be OK. Is the surface even? @James' advice is sound.





yeah, the surface is even. thanks


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## jkao (Jan 4, 2017)

Seems like a common occurrence with zkramers. Mine's also bent towards the left a little.


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## MaumasiFireArts (Jan 5, 2017)

This is not uncommon from most any mass manufactured chef's knife I've ever seen, no matter what the brand. It's definitely something that has occurred after the blade has been hardens making it kind of too late and is too time consuming for the manufacturer to fix. I wouldn't advise trying to bend it back. At that point in the knife where the bend starts, the crossection of the blade is so thin that if you flex it off, it's just going to spring right back, and frustrate you. 52100 steel is not designed to simply bend around especially after it's been hardened. If you are really wanting it to be fixed, there are professional craftsmen out there who are capable of fixing the issue, but not many, so carefully vet them if you do go that route. 

Best,
Mareko


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## chefcomesback (Jan 5, 2017)

MaumasiFireArts said:


> This is not uncommon from most any mass manufactured chef's knife I've ever seen, no matter what the brand. It's definitely something that has occurred after the blade has been hardens making it kind of too late and is too time consuming for the manufacturer to fix. I wouldn't advise trying to bend it back. At that point in the knife where the bend starts, the crossection of the blade is so thin that if you flex it off, it's just going to spring right back, and frustrate you. 52100 steel is not designed to simply bend around especially after it's been hardened. If you are really wanting it to be fixed, there are professional craftsmen out there who are capable of fixing the issue, but not many, so carefully vet them if you do go that route.
> 
> Best,
> Mareko



I usually straighten carbon steels on anvil, after bit tempering , you will get perfect results or ... smaller knives [emoji28]


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## 1ststatestereo (Jan 5, 2017)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll probably let it be. I'm much too much a casual kitchen cutter to invest in a more quality knife (at the moment).


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## strumke (Jan 5, 2017)

MaumasiFireArts said:


> This is not uncommon from most any mass manufactured chef's knife I've ever seen, no matter what the brand. It's definitely something that has occurred after the blade has been hardens making it kind of too late and is too time consuming for the manufacturer to fix. I wouldn't advise trying to bend it back. At that point in the knife where the bend starts, the crossection of the blade is so thin that if you flex it off, it's just going to spring right back, and frustrate you. 52100 steel is not designed to simply bend around especially after it's been hardened. If you are really wanting it to be fixed, there are professional craftsmen out there who are capable of fixing the issue, but not many, so carefully vet them if you do go that route.
> 
> Best,
> Mareko





chefcomesback said:


> I usually straighten carbon steels on anvil, after bit tempering , you will get perfect results or ... smaller knives [emoji28]



This is likely MUCH better information than my suggestion to just bend it back :whistling:


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## 1ststatestereo (Jan 5, 2017)

I contacted Kramer (the company not Bob himself). They said it was irregular. I'm sending it back.


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## Marek07 (Jan 5, 2017)

Sounds like the best solution. Good to hear they're standing behind their product.


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## preizzo (Jan 5, 2017)

One thing that always attracted me about the Japanese knives it that even a single one look the same even from the same line! I think that the irregularities in hand made knives makes them special and unique, off course in the beginning of my trip in to Japanese blade I couldn't accept anything like this, but now I don't pay much attention on this irregularities, I focus more on grind problems because they can influence more the way how a knife cut. 
I am not try to telling you did it wrong!! This is only my point of view. Btw I am happy for you that the company accepts to replace the blade for you!! &#128522; cheers Matteo


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## aboynamedsuita (Jan 5, 2017)

My first ZK had a small over grind in the spine towards the tip (as if the distal taper angle was too aggressive and then changed) so i thought it was bent





Zwilling let me return it because it also had the handle issue, which was a mistake as they'd since been discontinued in Canada. 

The replacement I later purchased (really liked the knife and it was also one of my first "good" knives) doesn't have this issue but the way it is ground towards the heel is strange when polishing there is a bit of a hollow as shown by the scratches that aren't removed




It's shallow and not past the centre so shouldn't be a problem in the future (although it's a PITA to try and polish it out). I'm planning to have this ZK rehandled along with my SG-2 Damascus bread knife (it has a gap between the scale and tang that is annoying)


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## preizzo (Jan 5, 2017)

Before you will get at that point you will have to use and sharpening the knife tons of time,but yes looks like an overgrind.


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## jkao (Feb 1, 2017)

I finally got the replacement knife back after about 3 weeks, but it also bent the same way. Now it feels like this is the norm rather than an exception.


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## gic (Feb 2, 2017)

they guarantee their knives, return it??


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 2, 2017)

This might be interconnected: The knife was bent already when it was sharpened, and sharpening a bent knife without paying attention to the fact it is bent can land you in deep yoghurt.


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## jkao (Feb 2, 2017)

It seems like something is up with the way they manufacture these knives. All the bent one I've encountered are all bent in the same direction.


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## richard (Feb 2, 2017)

I don't know that's it's a consistent defect. My ZK Essential 10" tip is very slightly more to the right (not left), but it's maybe like <0.5 mm from center, and not really noticeable. No such issue with my ZK Meiji 8".


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## Marek07 (Feb 3, 2017)

Having reread this forum after reading that a member received a replacement knife that was still bent, I decided to carefully examine my knife. I have a 10" ZK chef's knife in 52100. Initially I thought I had a bent tip as well. However placing it on both sides on various "flat" surfaces in my kitchen, I can't see a consistent bend. Depending on the surface, the tip may appear to bend in either direction. In any scenario I tried, the bend is never as great as 1mm and possibly half of that - very hard to measure accurately. Therefore, I do not think it a manufacturing defect but the effect of the distal taper causing the tip to rise ever so slightly from a flat surface. If I'm incorrect in assuming this, please let me know.

The actual rise is so small as to be insignificant in reality. My concern with the knife (or rather its marketing) is on a different point. The so-called 10 inch knife is actually overstated. My knife is a scant 9 5/8ths at best. Understandable in a hand forged knife but this is a major manufacturing enterprise and should be closer to its stated specification.


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## jkao (Feb 3, 2017)

Mine the tip is flush with the flat surface one way, and lifted 1-2mm the other way so it's noticeable. But with the shipping cost and long turn around time, I don't plan on trying another replacement.


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## 1ststatestereo (Feb 25, 2017)

Just bought another one. This one was worse than my previous one. I already sent it back.


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## YLQDave (Feb 26, 2017)

1ststatestereo said:


> Just bought another one. This one was worse than my previous one. I already sent it back.



That's insane!
Do you have pictures of the new one?


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## 1ststatestereo (Feb 26, 2017)

YLQDave said:


> That's insane!
> Do you have pictures of the new one?





no. But I measured it. it was off by 5mm


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## YLQDave (Feb 26, 2017)

1ststatestereo said:


> no. But I measured it. it was off by 5mm



That's quite a bit. 
Are you going to keep it or go a different direction after 2 bad knives in a row?


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## jkao (Feb 26, 2017)

I have decided to stop and keep the 3rd one. The tips all appear bent because the grind is not even on both sides


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## 1ststatestereo (Feb 26, 2017)

YLQDave said:


> That's quite a bit.
> Are you going to keep it or go a different direction after 2 bad knives in a row?




I think I'm going to save for a Haburn.


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## YLQDave (Feb 26, 2017)

1ststatestereo said:


> I think I'm going to save for a Haburn.



That's what I'm doing currently. From what I've read around here he's one of the best. There's currently a wait to place special orders as I'm sure he's crazy busy!


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## valgard (Feb 27, 2017)

He's got one knife currently available and a badass dammy coming next Friday to the store. He had a more "affordable" (everything is relative) one until a couple of days ago so he throws stuff to the store from time to time.


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## 1ststatestereo (Mar 1, 2017)

I talked with a representative at Kramer and she said they are aware of the problem and are working on it. She was very helpful and kind.


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## preizzo (Mar 1, 2017)

For all most the same price you can get a knife from @goldeband_knife_and_tool made of 52100 San mai with a really close shape, but 100 times better cutter.


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## 1ststatestereo (Mar 25, 2017)

Ordered another one...it was flat, but the tip was chipped. The seller was kind enough to send me a shipping label to return it. 

This forth one I have is perfect.


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## jkao (Mar 28, 2017)

Where did you order from?


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## 1ststatestereo (Apr 5, 2017)

jkao said:


> Where did you order from?





I bought it from homebutcher.com


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