# I like carbon, but would I be happy with ginsan?



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (May 21, 2021)

Stainless always feels so gummy on stones, and Japanese AEBL sounds lame. Is ginsan worth a shot?


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## Qapla' (May 21, 2021)

What kind of knife is it, and how do you plan on using it? (For some knives and some applications, you can go for stainless-clad carbon-steel and not need to ask the question.)

What do you see as lame about AEB-L? (Ginsan is just one variant of AEB-H; others include 19c27, AUS-10, etc.)


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (May 21, 2021)

Qapla' said:


> What kind of knife is it? (For some knives and some applications, you can go for stainless-clad carbon-steel and not need to ask the question.)
> 
> What do you see as lame about AEB-L? (Ginsan is just one variant of AEB-H; others include 19c27, AUS-10, etc.)


AEB-L is fine, though I find the idea of a Japanese copy of AEB-L in the form of Ginsan to be lame. Not sure if that's how it came to be but yea.

I haven't handled Ginsan before, know very little about it except for it's kinda stainless because it has chromium, and has a relatively high carbon content.


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## Barmoley (May 21, 2021)

Ginsan is not a copy of aeb-l, if that bothers you. Like @Qapla' pointed out it is a form of aeb-h and is a very solid steel.


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## friz (May 21, 2021)

Ginsan feels great on stones, and takes acute edges. Retention is subjective depending on use, style and shape of the knife. I am a big fan, you should at least try it once.


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## friz (May 21, 2021)

Also, I suggest Yamatsuka as the Blacksmith, or Nakagawa.


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## andrewsa (May 21, 2021)

Definitely do not cheap out if you want to have a good impression.

When comparing white and blue. Blue is a bit more gummy than white. Ginsan will be a bit more gummy than Blue but definitely more forgiving than your other stainless steels.

First hand experience comparing Sukenari's R2 to Nakagawa's Ginsan. The R2 has better edge retention and gets much sharper but the Ginsan is more forgiving/enjoyable to sharpen. 

Taken from Hitohira's website about Kikuchiyo aka Nakagawa _"His experience and skill have made his Ginsan (Silver 3) knives popular among Japanese cuisine chef’s, many stating “If you use Kikuchiyo’s Ginsan once, you will never replace it”._ " 

Sukenari have a Ginsan line though I have yet to experience it but it doesn't seem to be popular on the forum but given their reputation it could be worthwhile and their Ginsan stuff costs almost half of Nakagawa's.


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## Benuser (May 21, 2021)

Results may vary from one maker to the other, depending on how the heat treatment was performed and which properties the maker wanted to enhance.


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## Moooza (May 21, 2021)

Kurosaki prices seem to be getting higher all the time and he seems to be an R2 specialist. Could be pretty good.

Are you interested in stainless or more R2 specifically? Heiji stainless, ZDP-189 or Cowry X might be better.


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## big_adventure (May 21, 2021)

I have a ginsan yanagiba forged by Shiraki hamano, so probably Nakagawa made it. It's great. Feels fine on the stones, gets extremely sharp and keeps that edge well for what it does (though home sashimi isn't exactly demanding). I can't find any reason to recommend you against it. 

R2/SG2 will hold an edge better, but be somewhat worse to sharpen. Any low alloy steel will sharpen more easily, but won't hold the edge nearly as long. Usual rules. :-D


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## dafox (May 21, 2021)

Qapla' said:


> What kind of knife is it, and how do you plan on using it? (For some knives and some applications, you can go for stainless-clad carbon-steel and not need to ask the question.)
> 
> What do you see as lame about AEB-L? (Ginsan is just one variant of AEB-H; others include 19c27, AUS-10, etc.)


Can you elaborate more about the AEB-H family, I've never heard that before.


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## adam92 (May 21, 2021)

I have the lefty Ginsan Yanagiba from Shiraki hamono as well, feel very nice on stone. as easy sharpen as my blue two Yanagiba.


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## Benuser (May 21, 2021)

dafox said:


> Can you elaborate more about the AEB-H family, I've never heard that before.


AEB-H is equivalent to 19C27 what Misono uses with their UX-10. Developed for industrial purposes. Quite large, regularly spread carbides. Highly abrasion resistant. Keeps its bite, even when dull. Much loved by cooks who don't sharpen themselves.


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## HumbleHomeCook (May 21, 2021)

I love the stuff. Sharpens up really nice and is quite forgiving in use.












My two examples are both by Tsunehisa (excellent value btw).


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## Jason183 (May 21, 2021)

Benuser said:


> AEB-H is equivalent to 19C27 what Misono uses with their UX-10. Developed for industrial purposes. Quite large, regularly spread carbides. Highly abrasion resistant. Keeps its bite, even when dull. Much loved by cooks who don't sharpen themselves.


IDK what they do to the UX10 steel, I had a 10 years old UX10 Sujihiki sharpens very easy and holds the edge for good amount of time, but the recent UX10 Sujihiki I tried doesn’t sharpen as easy as my older one and had worse edge retention, felt liked different knives. I really liked the steel in the older version(if it’s 19c27).

If I’m going full stainless again, I’ll choose either 62+- AEBL, or very good heat treated 19c27/Ginsan. Don’t have good experience with R2, liked others have said, it’s harder to sharpen.


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## AT5760 (May 21, 2021)

What size is that nakiri @HumbleHomeCook ? I've been considering a stainless nakiri, but I strongly prefer a 180.


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## HumbleHomeCook (May 21, 2021)

AT5760 said:


> What size is that nakiri @HumbleHomeCook ? I've been considering a stainless nakiri, but I strongly prefer a 180.



165mm.


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## Ochazuke (May 21, 2021)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Stainless always feels so gummy on stones, and Japanese AEBL sounds lame. Is ginsan worth a shot?


Yes! I've been using a Korin ginsan usuba lately and it performed well beyond my expectations. I liked it so much I recently bought a small ginsan gyuto to use as a line knife.


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## Elliot (May 21, 2021)

Migoto Ginsan. 
Pretty damn close to a perfect knife.


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## iandustries (May 21, 2021)

Elliot said:


> Migoto Ginsan.
> Pretty damn close to a perfect knife.



Assume the its a nakagawa forged blade, but who is the sharpener?


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## Elliot (May 21, 2021)

iandustries said:


> Assume the its a nakagawa forged blade, but who is the sharpener?



Don't think he's made it public.


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## inferno (May 21, 2021)

andrewsa said:


> Definitely do not cheap out if you want to have a good impression.
> 
> When comparing white and blue. Blue is a bit more gummy than white. Ginsan will be a bit more gummy than Blue but definitely more forgiving than your other stainless steels.
> 
> First hand experience comparing Sukenari's R2 to Nakagawa's Ginsan. The R2 has better edge retention and gets much sharper but the Ginsan is more forgiving/enjoyable to sharpen.



all knives i've had in blue 2 has been the exact opposite of smeary or gummy.
but almost everything under lets say 59-60hrc feels like painting the stones with crayons almost.

----------------------

*nakiriknaifuwaifu*

ginsan good or bad? to be honest there is not much difference between the common japanese ingot stainless steels imo.
instead i would just get a knife i think looks cool and i can work with. made by a good maker/brand.
i prefer cryoed stainless. it just feels better on the stones usually. i guess because its usually 1-3hrc harder.

its not gonna be as easy/fast as carbon to sharpen.
its not gonna get as sharp.
its gonna keep a workable edge for a lot longer than almost any carbon though most likely.
and it wont rust.


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## ModRQC (May 21, 2021)

If you ever sharpened something like 440C, Ginsan won't feel so far off that IMO. I expect HT is the factor there and I only tried relatively cheap out of the mill Ginsan, but even there not particularly difficult. As far as stainless go, not particularly displeasing on stones. Holds a working edge nicely, takes well to a honing rod and stone touch ups, takes rather well to a polished edge up to a point.

Been vastly impressed sharpening a Ryusen VG-10. Best "introduction" by experience I ever had of what difference HT can make - like, the world.



inferno said:


> ...
> 
> *but almost everything under lets say 59-60hrc feels like painting the stones with crayons almost.*
> 
> ...



And this.


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## inferno (May 21, 2021)

i have a hattori santoku in vg10. its made by ryusen. its very good imo. not smeary at all.


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## Kippington (May 21, 2021)

ModRQC said:


> Been vastly impressed sharpening a Ryusen VG-10. Best "introduction" by experience I ever had of what difference HT can make - like, the world.





inferno said:


> i have a hattori santoku in vg10. its made by ryusen. its very good imo. not smeary at all.


Can we bring VG-10 back into fashion?


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## inferno (May 21, 2021)

Kippington said:


> Can we bring VG-10 back into fashion?



i guess shun ****ed it for us all for all eternity. no one want to touch vg10 even with a 10 ft pole these days because of this.

edit: but if you ask me vg10 is one of the best compromises in ingot SS. if done right that is. 

imo thats why the whole japanese knife industry went "all in" on vg10. because its a good compromise.


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## inferno (May 21, 2021)

kip you should be making stuff in vg10! good stuff.


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## inferno (May 21, 2021)

iandustries said:


> Assume the its a nakagawa forged blade, but who is the sharpener?



you are aware that all steel is already forged at the steel mill right? at least everything that comes in sheet. and bars.

just wanted to add a thing regarding this. "smith forged" with ss that already comes in sheet basically has the potential to either decrease steel performance by a lot or by a little, or almost nothing. but trust me a guy with a powerhammer/real hammer will not do a better forging job than the actual steel mill producing the stuff. because thats all they do. and its usually a multimillion operation. and they have the machines to make it happen.

manually "forging" these steel means nothing for performance. dont fall for this! its most likely the opposite in most cases. manually forged stainless is lower performance. steel mills forge steel into sheet. at the most optimal temps. in the most optimal conditions. its a truly industrial process developed by real engineers and scientists. no magic woodoo **** going on here. and you get the sheet in the most optimal form for HT.

so yeah for me i rather like it if the knife maker* don't* forge stainless. just grind it out and HT it. but thats just me.

when i can forge uddeholm 15n20 better than uddeholm themselves i'm gonna start sucking my own own d1ck until i die from oxygen starvation.

just saying.


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## Carl Kotte (May 21, 2021)

Kippington said:


> Can we bring VG-10 back into fashion?


Eh, yes plz!


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## WiriWiri (May 21, 2021)

For some reason I’ve never owned any ginsan knives, despite a fairly hefty roster of other stainless options.

I’ve had an Oul Ginsan on backorder for much of the past year, so that may change at some point. However I’m not convinced it’ll be a revolutionary difference from some of the other ‘Swedish Steel’ (Kono, Various JCK) blades I’ve owned and mostly enjoyed. Hell, I‘ve not even had bad experiences with VG-10, albeit I’ve only had Hattori forum and Ryusen blades to speak of there too. 

Not such a fan of R2, which is noticeably less pleasant to sharpen ime, albeit not terrible either. Horribly gummy on Naniwa SS (a terrible combo), but ok on NPs (and SPG) Seems more variable in general, or at least less forgiving - I still find the Blazen R2s a bit harsh to sharpen. The edge retention is better, but in a home setting I’m generally happy sharpening something more likeable more often.


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## dafox (May 21, 2021)

I've heard that the 19c27 in the UX10 is quite a bit different from the 19c27 in the Suisin inox honyaki, I wonder what is different and why?


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## WiriWiri (May 21, 2021)

dafox said:


> I've heard that the 19c27 in the UX10 is quite a bit different from the 19c27 in the Suisin inox honyaki, I wonder what is different and why?



Isn’t the SIH stainless edge retention meant to be rubbish? No direct XP admittedly, but I’ve been warned off...


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## toddnmd (May 21, 2021)

I have an S. Tanaka Ginsanko gyuto. Great steel, great knife. It’s staying in my collection (it was in the first KNS batch and was a bargain!)
I’m an equal opportunity knife Knut. Have stainless, semi, and carbon in my collection.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (May 21, 2021)

Hmm

So what I (selectively) hear is that a good heat treat ginsan is good _for a stainless. _

I'm worried that I've spent too much time with carbon that any return to stainless would be disappointing given how much I love the keenness and sharpenability of carbon (i find even AS a pleasure relative to SG2, which was glasslike and miserable)


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## HumbleHomeCook (May 21, 2021)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Hmm
> 
> So what I (selectively) hear is that a good heat treat ginsan is good _for a stainless. _
> 
> I'm worried that I've spent too much time with carbon that any return to stainless would be disappointing given how much I love the keenness and sharpenability of carbon (i find even AS a pleasure relative to SG2, which was glasslike and miserable)



My friend, if you just want to try it...









Tsunehisa Nashiji G3 165mm Nakiri Custom #2


Tsunehisa knives are made incredibly well and very affordable. The Nashiji line is stainless and has great food release. They have great edge retention. With these knives being made from a semi stainless steel they are easier to maintain then others. Length- 325 mm (12.75 in.) Weight-170 g (6.0...




realsharpknife.com





I believe Tsunehisa also makes the even cheaper Harukaze line.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (May 21, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> My friend, if you just want to try it


Yea but if the steel is no good then I'll be both poor and very sad 

This is probably just a charade before I buy another TF anyway....


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## daveb (May 21, 2021)

dafox said:


> I've heard that the 19c27 in the UX10 is quite a bit different from the 19c27 in the Suisin inox honyaki, I wonder what is different and why?



I have Suisin knives in Ginsanko and SIH - they're different beasts. SIH is good but not great for an edge. Feels softer than it is, impossible to chip, never turns down a touch-up. Their Ginsan is like others I have, little more work to sharpen, very nice edge, it can be chippy (it's a deba) medium retention.

Other ginsan, ginsanko, silver include Wat, Tadasuna, Tanaka, Hide and probably others. Like.


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## ModRQC (May 21, 2021)

You’d be fairly surprised: kind of keenness achievable with Ginsan is quite satisfying. And provided reasonable refinement, can hold it pretty well. Best is an edge with a good deal of bite, as this bite will stay true as keenness decreases. It makes for a very steady performance for a good while. Just need to be thin enough behind the edge and its your no brainer knife. 

To me there’s fun to have with hard SS in sharpening. 440C is a very satisfying steel to sharpen. VG-10, AEB-L and AEB-H can all be fun. And then when you go back to Carbon it’s just even more fun how easy they get keen and deburr. 

I mean ever since @Larrin ‘s last article I’m sort of dreaming about sharpening 420 steel with a proper ~56HRC... 

I guess it all depends on what SS gave you such a bad opinion about it.


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## HumbleHomeCook (May 21, 2021)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Yea but if the steel is no good then I'll be both poor and very sad
> 
> This is probably just a charade before I buy another TF anyway....




Would you be interested in say a 30 day trial? It is completely okay to say no and no offense will be taken.







Tsunehisa G3 165mm Migaki nakiri.


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## BillHanna (May 21, 2021)

carrrrrrrrrrrrbooonnnnnn. CAAAAARRRRRRRRRRBBOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNN. *CCCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN*


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## jedy617 (May 21, 2021)

Also been on the fence with ginsan. At first stainlessness with the feel of carbon on stones sounded nice but then I'm like....no if I go stainless I want something much more chemically....impressive? SG2 and ZDP for me. If I'm going stainless might as well go all out with the carbides.


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## ModRQC (May 21, 2021)

Valid POV!


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## M1k3 (May 21, 2021)

BillHanna said:


> carrrrrrrrrrrrbooonnnnnn. CAAAAARRRRRRRRRRBBOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNN. *CCCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN*


Ginsan has carbon in it. Balls in your court.


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## jedy617 (May 21, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Ginsan has carbon in it. Balls in your court.


Nah then he needs ZDP. MAXIMUM CARBON


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## xxxclx (May 22, 2021)

BillHanna said:


> carrrrrrrrrrrrbooonnnnnn. CAAAAARRRRRRRRRRBBOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNN. *CCCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN*





Can't get more carbon than this


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## zizirex (May 22, 2021)

Long Live VG-10!!!!! I have Tanaka Ginsan, really nice to sharpen and has pretty nice edge retention. I heard it's one of the best but it's just a bit too tall for my taste.


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## IsoJ (May 22, 2021)

Kippington said:


> Can we bring VG-10 back into fashion?


Has it gone off?


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## inferno (May 22, 2021)

the reason swedish steel is so popular with japanese makers is that uddeholm strip and sandvik can produce a very consistent product year by year. its always the same **** out to the customers. and always have been. thats the 1 reason. and i think reason 2 is because its actually cheaper than domestic steel because they have this gigantic mass production operation going. i wouldn't be surprised if the swedish steel misonos are actually the cheapest ones to make.

and thats how it works, and always have been. money wins. i wouldn't be surprised if all misonos were swedish steel.


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## toddnmd (May 22, 2021)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Hmm
> 
> So what I (selectively) hear is that a good heat treat ginsan is good _for a stainless. _



I don’t find Ginsanko all that different than carbon. Don’t think you’ll know how far apart until you try.


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## BillHanna (May 22, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Ginsan has carbon in it. Balls in your court.


Chromium? More like NOmium. Amirite?!?


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## Jovidah (May 22, 2021)

My N=1 experience with Sukenari ginsan was positive. Sharpened easy and sharpened well. Closer to the 'crispy' carbon sharpening experience than the soft & gummy stainless experience.


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## esoo (May 22, 2021)

jedy617 said:


> Also been on the fence with ginsan. At first stainlessness with the feel of carbon on stones sounded nice but then I'm like....no if I go stainless I want something much more chemically....impressive? SG2 and ZDP for me. If I'm going stainless might as well go all out with the carbides.



If you're going all out with the carbides, get @Andrei to make you something with REX121. I'm hoping mine will be a Christmas present to myself.


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## Midsummer (May 22, 2021)

My favorite easy maintenance knifes are the semi-stainless from Heiji. I have tried, and liked (I am a bit of a knife nut) AebL, Swedish stainless, a number of different ginsankos (including the ones forged by the aforementioned Yamatsuka also forged by but spelled Yamatuka (I am thinking they are the same as they have the same first name and both work for Sakai Takayuki)).

I have tried ZDP-189 and R2 SG2 as well. Out of all I found the Heiji semi stainless to take a wicked edge easily, and to retain it well. It is probably my favorite steel to sharpen. I enjoyed the few SLD and SKD knives I have tried, still the Heiji stands out as far as steel goes.


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## Bear (May 22, 2021)

> I like carbon, but would I be happy with ginsan



All I can say is I've tried a few but I always ended up grabbing my carbon knives, the stainless ended up in the closet.


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## ModRQC (May 22, 2021)

Tell it that it’s ok to be SS and that it is socially accepted now.


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## spaceconvoy (May 22, 2021)

xxxclx said:


> Can't get more carbon than this


What about this?









Accutrax Pencil Blade (3 blade packs)


This is the best thing that has happened to a Utility Knife since a sharp blade! The new Accutrax Pencil Blade is not a razor, it is a carbon fiber reinforced graphite blade used for marking. Imagine drawing hundreds of razor sharp lines, 0.025”/0.635 mm wide to be exact, with the same pencil...




www.woodpeck.com





And yeah I like my Sukenari ginsan, for me it's actually more pleasurable to sharpen than blue 2 - slightly less abrasion resistance and slightly easier to deburr. Not as good edge retention from board impact but obviously better edge retention from acids so it's almost a wash. If you never go above 3k you'll constantly wonder whether your carbon knives are subtly, almost imperceptibly sharper, but you'll never be sure you can tell the difference. Whether that helps you feel settled with a well balanced steel, or frustrated in missing out on higher performance, depends on your personality.


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## Jville (May 22, 2021)

One of my favorite knives of all time, Takayuki Yamutsuka ginsan. For whatever reason it was the best 1k edge I have ever experienced. I’ve only tried 3 knives in ginsan, but I liked them all a lot. The others were a sukenari and kono Fuji.


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## branwell (May 22, 2021)

inferno said:


> manually "forging" these steel means nothing for performance. dont fall for this! its most likely the opposite in most cases. manually forged stainless is lower performance.



I've forged a bunch of stainless. Its forging temp window is much tighter than carbon and the normalizing process after forging literally takes 12+ hours in a computer controlled kiln compared to minutes for carbon. In the testing I did, I found not normalizing properly left the blades prone to cracking as well as hardening a little unevenly which left the samples prone to warping over time as well as finish anomalies. Performance wise, my testing showed no benefit but no loss if done right. The only non marketing reason a smith would forge stainless is for a textured finish or an integral type thing.

The long and the short of forging stainless is cost. Working within a tight window adds cost. The long normalizing requirement adds cost.

If I wanted another makers forged stainless knife and it didn't cost substantially more than its non forged counterpart, that would be a red flag to me to do more research into their manufacturing process.


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## jedy617 (May 22, 2021)

esoo said:


> If you're going all out with the carbides, get @Andrei to make you something with REX121. I'm hoping mine will be a Christmas present to myself.


Honestly that would be awesome. Or Maxamet....S125V, S90V etc. I've seen his stuff and looks great. Unfortunately done buying for awhile I went on a big spree. At least I got some ZDP right now for some carbide goodness


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## Qapla' (May 22, 2021)

dafox said:


> Can you elaborate more about the AEB-H family, I've never heard that before.












All About AEB-L - Knife Steel Nerds


I've gathered all of the information I have on AEB-L steel, including its history, toughness, edge retention, ease in sharpening, and other properties.




knifesteelnerds.com







Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Sandvik 19C27, Bohler-Uddeholm AEB-H Version 4.36





Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Sandvik 19C27, Aichi AUS10, Hitachi Ginsanko, Takefu VG1, Takefu VG10 Version 4.36


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## dafox (May 22, 2021)

Qapla' said:


> All About AEB-L - Knife Steel Nerds
> 
> 
> I've gathered all of the information I have on AEB-L steel, including its history, toughness, edge retention, ease in sharpening, and other properties.
> ...


Thanks!


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## TM001 (May 24, 2021)

The first good Japanese knife I purchased was a Sukenari 210 Ginsan gyuto (Knives and Stones).

I have found it fine to sharpen. It is definitely stainless, no patina at all after over a year or use and I do not wipe it down during use.

I do not use it much any more since I purchased other knives since being on this forum so if you would like to try a Ginsan gyuto for a while, let me know.


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## Gjackson98 (May 24, 2021)

I started this hobby only using Mono Carbon and carbon clad knives, I enjoy using and taking care of them.
Few years down the road as I am getting less and less momentum on the subject, I start switching to KU knives and stainless clad knives.
The problem with the stainless-clad knives that I have tried is they are just not heavy enough to my liking. 
So if KU finish is an option for you, maybe you can also give that a try. It's more forgiving than Mono steel or other carbon clad knives. Its a good "bridge" transitioning from 100% reactive to more forgiving knives. 
Keep in mind there are different types of KU finish, some of them are reactive KU.


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## panda (May 24, 2021)

ginsan is the only stainless I tolerate..


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## shinyunggyun (Sep 15, 2021)

For those of you who have used both blue #1 from Tanaka and ginsan from nakagawa, how does nakagawa's ginsan knives stack up against y. Tanaka's blue #1 knives in terms of sharpness and edge retention?


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## WiriWiri (Sep 15, 2021)

shinyunggyun said:


> For those of you who have used both blue #1 from Tanaka and ginsan from nakagawa, how does nakagawa's ginsan knives stack up against y. Tanaka's blue #1 knives in terms of sharpness and edge retention?



This is one of my next missions, albeit I can compare ginsan from the older sakai steadfast - Yamatsuka. I haven‘t the Oul ginsan long enough, nor go through enough product as a home chef in these socially-stunted times, to truly give a verdict on edge retention, but early signs are encouraging.The ever lovely @EShin is probably a good poster to bring in here if available - I know he’s recently added a Nakagawa ginsan to a fine collection, including Yamatsuka ginsan and Tanaka blades.

I’ve been thoroughly impressed by the Oul and Yamatsuka’s forged ginsan fwiw, Thinness BTE compares well to the Tanaka blades I own (Yohei, Tsubaya, FM) - it came screamingly sharp OOTB and I’ve had to do little real maintenance to maintain a high level. Wary of making too many generalisations given a few months ownership and limited ginsan comparison points, but Yamatsuka‘s ginsan feels surprisingly hard (not gummy) and toothy on the stones, plus it’s obviously capable of taking an impressively executed, acute grind. Doesn‘t feel as buttery smooth as a Tanaka perhaps, either on stone or going through product, but that would always be a tough ask, especially given the pronounced wide bevel on the Oul.


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## EShin (Sep 17, 2021)

shinyunggyun said:


> For those of you who have used both blue #1 from Tanaka and ginsan from nakagawa, how does nakagawa's ginsan knives stack up against y. Tanaka's blue #1 knives in terms of sharpness and edge retention?


Unfortunately, I don't own knives with these steels made by the same sharpener, so it is very difficult to say anything useful.
In any case, what @WiriWiri said about Mr. Yamatsuka's ginsan also applies for Mr. Nakagawa's ginsan, the two are very similar as far as I can tell. Nakagawa's ginsan feels a bit harder than Yamatsuka's ginsan when compared side by side, but the knives are finished by different sharpeners and I've owned/used only one knife with Mr. Nakagawa's ginsan steel, so I cannot say anything conclusive about the steels anyway. Again, the only knife with Mr. Tanaka's blue 1 steel I've owned was a Konosuke FM which is very different from all the ginsan steel knives I've used. That being said, I think ginsan can better be compared to white steel than to blue steel, which has a bit of an "icy" feel. Edge retention is quite similar to white 2, maximum sharpness is a bit less but practical sharpness quite similar. For blue 1, SKD is perhaps more similar in feel, sharpness and edge retention than ginsan, but I don't think SKD is handled in Sakai.


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