# which stones for Hiromoto AS?



## domgro (May 12, 2014)

after spending researching a lot for the right knives,I think I decided to buy knives from the Hiromoto AS series.
However,I didnt spend that much time on researching sharpening tools yet.
I dont really know which grit I should use and how sharp I can make the Hiromoto.
from the little bit I know,I would buy a 1000/3000 or a 1000/6000 combi stone.would that be enough or do I need lower whetstone too?
would it be favourable to buy european or japanese stones,since I'm a beginner and european stones are supposably better for beginners?
my budget is ~70 euro

I also want to buy a leather strop.
anything else I have to consider?


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (May 12, 2014)

Since you are in Germany (according to the questionnaire you filled out), I would recommend buying stones from Japanese Natural Stones to minimize shipping costs and duties. Maksim, who owns and operates JNS, has what you need.

Start with a medium and a fine stone, and add a coarse stone when you need to thin your knife, or repair an edge. 

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-1000-matukusuyama/

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-6000-matukusuyama/

You will also need a way to flatten your new stones. If you have the budget, get an Atoma 140 from JNS, but you can flatten with wet/dry sandpaper on a flat piece of heavy glass.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/atoma-140-diamond-plate/


----------



## domgro (May 12, 2014)

sorry tiger but your recommendations are way over my budget.I'm already spending much more on knives,magnet holder,chopping board etc. than I intended to.
For now I have to buy some cheaper stones,that keep the knives sharp.
Like I said. 70 euros for stone(s),leather etc. is all I can spend


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (May 12, 2014)

domgro said:


> sorry tiger but your recommendations are way over my budget.I'm already spending much more on knives,magnet holder,chopping board etc. than I intended to.
> For now I have to buy some cheaper stones,that keep the knives sharp.
> Like I said. 70 euros for stone(s),leather etc. is all I can spend



Sorry, but I didn't see your budget limit.

It's difficult to get something good for that little.

If you can post links to the stones you are considering, it might help.


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr (May 12, 2014)

Have a look at JCK with their 1000/4000 combo stone http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/WhetStonesForSale.html#Whetstone  it's within your budget and JCK has offers a very fast delivery. 

Another option might be the King 1000/6000 combo stone from ebay or some local vendor if you can find one. Those stones can be found at around 50$ in US, so I believe it should also be within your budget.

In case you would need stropping, there's always a way of using newspaper, like Murrey Carter showed in his youtube videos. Or you could use a piece of cardboard, or just strop on the 6k side of stone.


----------



## apicius9 (May 12, 2014)

You can also check what Dieter Schmid has at http://www.feinewerkzeuge.de/ - plenty to choose from around your budget, and you can always 'upgrade' later when you have enough experience to notice the difference...

Stefan


----------



## Leo Barr (May 12, 2014)

Good advice there for you I would not bother with leather strops check out either Jon of Japanese knife imports or Murray Carter they both advocate honing on the finishing stones . If you strop two things can happen the primary bevel becomes to polished to be of use on food and there is a real danger of rounding of the apex of the bevel . So do without the leather strops and put that money towards stones .


----------



## domgro (May 12, 2014)

thanks for carters yt channel.I will definately check out more of his videos soon and using the newspaper for stropping.

I have following stones in mind:
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00...=B0052M3WGK&linkCode=as2&tag=messerschaerf-21
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00...=B0034YZYG4&linkCode=as2&tag=messerschaerf-21
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00...=B000CNRMFQ&linkCode=as2&tag=messerschaerf-21
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00...=B00CSM5G34&linkCode=as2&tag=messerschaerf-21

I've used recommendations from a german sharpening site,but I dont really know which grit to choose.I assume the King 1000/6000 would be good for now.
The author also mentions,that european stones are better for beginners,since they are harder and beginner mistakes and beginner mistakes wont affect the stone as much,so maybe I should choose the massarka blue then?


----------



## Benuser (May 12, 2014)

I would forget yet about stropping on leather. Excellent results with it when basic carbon steel is involved, poor results with AS. Better results on newspaper with a lot of black ink.
Some stones don't deal very well with the carbides in AS and modern stainless as I experienced with the Cerax 1k/3k. A weak edge is the result.
You may consider the 1k/4k with JCK, or the Naniwa 1k/3k and the Chosera 800 and 3k with knivesandtools.de


----------



## domgro (May 13, 2014)

thank you again benuser.
the jck stone looks decent.

has anyone from germany experience with german customs?
ist there any benefit to let it (knife and stone) ship as a gift?
Obv. I dont want to pay any additional tax etc.


----------



## Ruso (May 13, 2014)

I would go with King 1000/6000 from Amazon. As for taxes, I would assume it works similar to other countries. You pay taxes based on the value of the product. Best way to avoid additional taxes is to specify low cost when filling the shipping label (Person who ships have to do it). BTW I think you will not be paying any additional taxes if the package is within Europe since you already paying the VAT.


----------



## daddy yo yo (May 13, 2014)

You can buy the King combo from dictum in Germany.

JCK is always good for cheap and fast shipping. Chances are that parcels slip through customs.


----------



## WarrenB (May 13, 2014)

domgro said:


> thank you again benuser.
> the jck stone looks decent.
> 
> has anyone from germany experience with german customs?
> ...



I got a Hiromoto AS Santoku and JCK 1000/4000 stone from JCK and it went through UK customs with no fees, and the UK customs are normally after everything they can get:biggrin:
The stone was good for me as beginner to sharpening, much better than the minosharp I was using before:sofa: but after my sharpening skills have improved quite a lot after a few months I now want single stones rather than the combo and I don't really like the 4000 side of it now my skills are above amateur level.


----------



## berko (May 13, 2014)

in germany youll have to pay 19% vat plus 8,5 % customs if the value is over 150 


----------



## domgro (May 13, 2014)

sounds good.
I'll order the knives when koki has answered my question.

BTW:I bought the Missarka blue 500/1200 (equals 1200/4000 for a japanese stone)
I had to buy it since it was half the price because of minor cosmetic diferences.
It seems to be a good stone and I guess it will be definately more than enough for the beginning.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Jun 2, 2014)

domgro said:


> sounds good.
> I'll order the knives when koki has answered my question.
> 
> BTW:I bought the Missarka blue 500/1200 (equals 1200/4000 for a japanese stone)
> ...



As Stepan linked you can get all your sharpening supplies in Germany. That site has Atoma plates too.

Looks like you are on your way with a good knife, endgrain board, sharpening stone. Now all you need is some freehand skills


----------



## daddy yo yo (Jun 2, 2014)

i bought my king 1000/6000 combo at dictum/dick in germany. maybe that store's worth looking at...


----------



## Matus (Jun 2, 2014)

berko said:


> in germany youll have to pay 19% vat plus 8,5 % customs if the value is over 150 



+1 It is 100% this way. Always. It does not matter how the package is declared. If it gets attention (and it will because it has value declared), that you will be asked to get proof of payment (print-out from your bank, PayPal, or such). I even payed tax on knife that I got literally for free. I had to 'guess' value. I lowballed


----------



## Jaspernowhere (Jun 3, 2014)

I use the king 1000/6000 and find that that stone and the sidewalk and cardboard/newspaper will sharpen or fix anything.


----------



## Umberto (Jun 4, 2014)

Ben is right...basically at your budget you are sort of stuck with a single stone solution. If the edge on the knife is not abused or too beaten up look at a 1k grit or 2k grit stone. For stropping take newspaper and wrap it around a wood block that is relatively even and straight...wrap it tight and you've got a block strop. I've been using newspaper for awhile now. 

The King Combo as listed would probably fit the bill fine and you can use newspaper as a strop. Paper works best when the burr is mostly gone, we can look at scrutinize edges on little crappy USB microscopes till the cows come home...but ultimately, I'd rather use my knives than scrutinize them.

Use the 1k side of the combo to thin the edge, use the 6k side of the stone to polish the edge, also use it to polish above the cutting edge. A nicely polished blade can help a little bit in food release.

Realistically if you are happy with the factory edge, you could simply use the stone as a strop until you are no longer happy with the edge. I personally don't see a need to obsess about how good an edge can get with silly stropping pastes. Because all edges come and go. Newsprint is the surprisingly affordable solution to your problem. Be sure to use the politics section as a stropping medium. Make bad news a good edge


----------

