# Epicurean Edge



## mzer (Apr 10, 2013)

So, it seems like some online shops are panned on a regular basis and others are beloved, but EE seems to get no mention at all, positive or negative. As a rather new high end knife consumer, is there something I should read in to this lack of mention? Are they a reasonable source? Thanks.


----------



## Jmadams13 (Apr 10, 2013)

I've used them a number of times. Always happy, but shipping times were inconsistent. Or I should say order processing times, not actual shipping. I have called to ask questions, and the staff seems to know their stuff. Stuff always arrived safe and packaged well. I would buy from them again.


----------



## ajhuff (Apr 10, 2013)

My experience with them has also been very positive. A+ in my book.

-AJ


----------



## chinacats (Apr 10, 2013)

Fairly positive experience on my one purchase and I would use them again. Only drawback to me was that the prices on shipping seemed rather high, but I was buying stones so I guess that makes sense. Customer service was good.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Apr 10, 2013)

I've bought several knives from them. Daniel the owner is a great guy, a little stuffy but cool.


----------



## wsfarrell (Apr 10, 2013)

I've been going there a couple times a year (from California) while visiting relatives for the last 10 years or so. The time before last I was interested in a Tadafusa santoku. Dan O'Malley (owner) brought one out from the back. I looked at it and it had uneven cladding. I asked if he had any a couple others I could look at. "I've got 15 of them back there," he said, "but I'm not bringing any more out. They're factory-made, and they're all the same." I went back later when he wasn't around, looked at 3 of them, and bought a nice one.

On my last trip I wanted to see a Yoshikane gyuto. The woman pulled it from the case. I held the tip carefully between thumb and finger and flexed it slightly. "Don't bend the blade," she said. "I'm not bending the blade, I just want to assess its flexibility." "Yeah, don't flex the blade," she repeated. I handed it back to her and left.

I emailed Dan about the incident. I reminded him that I was fairly experienced in owning, sharpening, polishing and repairing fine knives. I couldn't expect the salesperson to know this, but

SHE COULD HAVE ASKED.

"Have you been to our store before?"
"Do you know about Yoshikane knives?"
"Do you sharpen your own knives?"
"Is this your first Japanese knife?"

That kind of thing.

To his credit, Dan stuck to his guns and said that no one, whatever their level of experience, is allowed to test flexibility in the store.

I won't be going back.


----------



## El Pescador (Apr 10, 2013)

I have had nothing but positive experiences with Dan and his crew. They're fairly well informed but no where near as knowledgeable as Jon @ JKI. I have visited them on a couple of occasions while I am flying through Seattle to Montana. 

Another that doesn't get any love is Bernal Cutlery. It's in SF. I make a point of visiting the shop when I'm in town.


----------



## Johnny.B.Good (Apr 10, 2013)

For a variety of reasons, I'd rather spend my money with one of the vendors on this forum. That said, I would order from EE if they had something unique that I wanted (though Wsfarrel's stories give me some pause).


----------



## Lucretia (Apr 10, 2013)

wsfarrell, at least it's not just me that has a problem with the woman employee at EE. Although at least she let you HOLD the knife--one time I was in there and they had a custom Rader, and she wouldn't even take it out of the case to let me look at it. (Fine, you jerk, I got my custom directly from Mr. Rader and you didn't get a penny on the deal!) I went in anther time and wanted to look at a couple of Bill Burke's knives they had in a display case--she grudgingly got them out and then proceeded to pull out some of the least expensive knives in the store--pushing me to look at them instead. It was pretty blatant that she didn't want me looking at their higher-end knives. She's obnoxious and the main reason I don't go to EE anymore. Quite obvious about the fact that she doesn't think one is worthy. 

Haven't had any real problems with the rest of the staff--they've been quite helpful and nice--but you don't know who will be working on a given day and I've spent a little too much money there for someone to treat me like dirt.


----------



## Burl Source (Apr 10, 2013)

Lucretia,
Were you wearing your Oregon Gardening t-shirt when you went to EE?


----------



## Lucretia (Apr 10, 2013)

LOL--no, probably the regular flannel and jeans Washington uniform. But it doesn't matter if I went in there in a pink polka-dot bikini furry bikini--they need to treat customers with a little respect.

Makes me think of my dad--it always seems like before he'd buy my mom a piece of jewelry, he'd go out and work in the yard, then head directly to the jewelry store in his nasty, holey, smelly yard clothes. Stores that treated him like a valued customer in spite of the fact that he looked like a slob tended to provide excellent service in general--and got more business.


----------



## Paradox (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm lucky enough to live fairly local to EE. It is nice to have a shop to actually be able to get hands on some of the stuff many folks can only access via mail order. That said after several trips there they have done nothing to inspire me to become a loyal customer. They offer a 10% discount on knives to Foodie Forum members. I took them up on that offer when I bought a Tadafusa Nakiri. They asked, "Are you an active member". I laughed and said yup, about as active as they get on that forum. There was a concern that some people just try to get the discount? When I bought a handle from them the discount did not apply to that. The in store customer service has been pretty marginal over 4 trips to the shop.


----------



## Dave Martell (Apr 10, 2013)

From an online only customer here -I've always had good service ordering online and I've ordered from them as far back as when they weren't even EE yet - just Blade Gallery.


----------



## DevinT (Apr 10, 2013)

I met Dan O' back in '95 at a hammer'in at Rick Dunkerley's shop in Montana. Dan at the time was an apprentice with Bob Kramer, which lasted more than two years. I can remember that there was a lot of discussion about the feasibility of an online store. There were three different web stores that opened within a few months of each other. Blade Gallery was the second to start up. 

In 2002 the idea of a brick and mortar store came about so that they could let people handle some of the knives that they were selling. The store opened in 2003 and Epicurean Edge began in 2004. 

Dan started working with Bill Burke back in '99, making knives and selling his knives. Dan is a very good knife maker and sharpener. He has been a real proponent of knives, knife makers, Japanese cutlery, hand made knives, etc. over the last 20 years. He's made multiple trips to Japan looking for new makers and suppliers.

It has been a great blessing for me to work with him and Drew and the rest of the staff. He has a very cooperative attitude with other venders. I can't say enough good about Dan and EE.

Love and respect

Hoss


----------



## dharperino (Apr 10, 2013)

Bernal Cutlery is a fine shop located in the Bernal Heights district of San Francisco. They just announced their move to the Mission District and a larger store smack dab in a huge foodie part of town. Great knives, sharpening services and classes in sharpening and knife skills. Highly recommended.


----------



## vai777 (Apr 10, 2013)

I've ordered from them a few times...fast shipping no issues, though I'm on the east coast and have never been inside the store. I would say this; if I got any sort of attitude like some of the other posters here I wouldn't go back...screw them. Quick story... I'm close to NYC, when I was heavy into the JK thing I used to go quite often, sometimes I would buy sometimes I wouldn't, but EVERY time they were more than respectful and wouldn't hesitate to take any knife out of the case no matter the price...even the first time I went there. After a few visits, they knew me by name and once Mr. Sugai was there and brought out a knife, he asked if I would like to see it. It was somewhat rustic looking, and looked like it was Damascus, quite a unique piece. I asked the price...10K. Now here is a guy who doesn't really know me from a hole in the wall, hands me a 10k knife to hold in my hand, and even asked if my wife wanted to hold it. That is the type of people I'd rather deal with. They would bring out 50 knives of the same brand if I asked...that is the way it should be.


----------



## euphorbioid (Apr 10, 2013)

I am also on the East Coast. I never had a problem with them, though it has been a while since I ordered from them. As someone else said, I'd rather support the vendors who support KKF.


----------



## Johnny.B.Good (Apr 10, 2013)

vai777 said:


> I would say this; if I got any sort of attitude like some of the other posters here I wouldn't go back...screw them.



+1


----------



## WiscoNole (Apr 10, 2013)

vai777 said:


> I've ordered from them a few times...fast shipping no issues, though I'm on the east coast and have never been inside the store. I would say this; if I got any sort of attitude like some of the other posters here I wouldn't go back...screw them. Quick story... I'm close to NYC, when I was heavy into the JK thing I used to go quite often, sometimes I would buy sometimes I wouldn't, but EVERY time they were more than respectful and wouldn't hesitate to take any knife out of the case no matter the price...even the first time I went there. After a few visits, they knew me by name and once Mr. Sugai was there and brought out a knife, he asked if I would like to see it. It was somewhat rustic looking, and looked like it was Damascus, quite a unique piece. I asked the price...10K. Now here is a guy who doesn't really know me from a hole in the wall, hands me a 10k knife to hold in my hand, and even asked if my wife wanted to hold it. That is the type of people I'd rather deal with. They would bring out 50 knives of the same brand if I asked...that is the way it should be.


you never named the NYC store you're referring to...or did I miss it?


----------



## knyfeknerd (Apr 10, 2013)

WiscoNole said:


> you never named the NYC store you're referring to...or did I miss it?


If Mr. Sugai was there, it was Korin.


----------



## franzb69 (Apr 11, 2013)

> I've ordered from them a few times...fast shipping no issues, though I'm on the east coast and have never been inside the store. I would say this; if I got any sort of attitude like some of the other posters here I wouldn't go back...screw them. Quick story... I'm close to NYC, when I was heavy into the JK thing I used to go quite often, sometimes I would buy sometimes I wouldn't, but EVERY time they were more than respectful and wouldn't hesitate to take any knife out of the case no matter the price...even the first time I went there. After a few visits, they knew me by name and once Mr. Sugai was there and brought out a knife, he asked if I would like to see it. It was somewhat rustic looking, and looked like it was Damascus, quite a unique piece. I asked the price...10K. Now here is a guy who doesn't really know me from a hole in the wall, hands me a 10k knife to hold in my hand, and even asked if my wife wanted to hold it. That is the type of people I'd rather deal with. They would bring out 50 knives of the same brand if I asked...that is the way it should be.



I used to own a business, and tackled sales a whole lot of the time as I was a hands on business owner. I handled 99% of the sales talk and I have always done the same, and treated everyone the same and as respectfully as I can, within reason. I also worked as a computer technician and salesperson for 9 months, did that fantastically as well. 

Nothing speaks more about the place more than the before, during and after service of sales.


----------



## Bill Burke (Apr 11, 2013)

Like Hoss said I have worked with Daniel for quite some time and can only say that I could ask for no better freind. Daniel has helped many new makers become established in their respective venue of labor. And strives to keep a supply of the best makers knives in stock. He has a standing order of ten knives a month with me which he very rarely gets. Yet still he does not get upset when I fill orders from you guys and he gets nothing.

I cannot count how many times I have seen Daniel buy knives from makers the last day of a show when they refused to sell him knives at the start of that same show. Then when they didn't sell anything during the show It's "hey Daniel Buddy". I probably would tell them that I had spent my budget for the show but maybee next time. Instead he buys their knives at the same price that he would have paid at the beginning of the show, so he can help out these makers.


I don't feel it is a fair comparison between someone who keeps several hundred thousand dollars worth of inventory, and a physical store with a lot of overhead, to an online store with little or no inventory. I believe the book, 'Japanese Kitchen Knives: Essential Techniques', that is availible on amazon is a second edition as the first edition was sold out and out of print when I bought my copy a couple of years ago. I paid 189 and change for it. imagine my chagrin when I seen the same book in EE for 129.00 turns out Daniel had searched for and bought a number of copies then sales them at only a 15% mark up. these same first edition books are now for sale for only 29.00 to compete with the second edition books on amazon. that is close to a hundred dollar per book loss. 

Also how many of you would let someone come to your house and flex your san mai knives when they would very probably stay bent. that's like going to a art gallery and being upset because you are asked not to lick the Monets and because you lick the paint in your own house all the time you think it should be ok. If someone where in my shop and started flexing Or bending my knives they would be asked to stop and if they insisted that it was ok because they wanted to see if my knives would flex, they would be asked to leave. like wise if they started "looking" at all the carbon steel knives leaving me with the job of cleaning and oiling them all to prevent problems from rusty finger prints showing up. if they first asked If they could test the flex of a particular knife I might say go ahead or I might tell them that since a particular model is a sanmai with very soft outer cladding and is not ment to be flexed because it will most likely bend instead of flexing, it would be different. Wsferrel posted that the counter person could have asked him several things but he could have voluntered this information also. No one can read minds.

I my opinion the only person who has any legitimate complaint is Lucrecia and just so everyone knows the "Girl" who waited on her and wsferral is no longer employed At EE. 

I realize that this post is going seem like an attack and it is not really intended to be but I am a very loyal freind and do not know how to say what I think needs said in any other way but plain words. 

people need to think about things a little bit. I often get very pi$$ed off when I go into a store and get treated like I am an idiot. 

I have aften walked out of the store swearing to never return. Then I think about how many people, in a city of several hundred thousand or several million, must go into that store to that same clerk and do really stupid crap. Then I start to understand the clerks reason for acting the way they did. If i in turn acted like an ass I will go back and apologise for my actions, take time to explain what or why I am doing get what I need and part freindly.

we as people seem to think that we are each "entitled" to special treatment. When we should be trying to treat others as if they where the ones entitled.


----------



## mzer (Apr 11, 2013)

Thank you. That was really a lovely post. Sounds like a stand up man.


----------



## chinacats (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks for taking the time to put down your thoughts Bill, I do think a supplier and customer both deserve to be treated with respect. I find it interesting how great the knife makers are treated, while some of the customers seem to see a different company face. I am glad to hear that the 'suppliers' do get taken care of, but find it disheartening that someone like Lucretia could be treated poorly. That said, I am glad that the person who provided the s****y customer service no longer works there. Judging from the sum of the posts above though I would say that there may be somewhat of a double standard as to how people are treated. 
Again, my experience was fine--no where near as good as JKI, but not half as bad as I've received at other places (like ****). To me, I wouldn't hesitate to shop there again if they had something I was interested in buying, but wouldn't go out of my way to make a purchase there.

Cheers


----------



## Justin0505 (Apr 11, 2013)

I think that EE was certainly a pioneer in the high end knife world in the US. They were crucial in both bringing J-knives to our side of the ocean and in promoting and supporting the North American makers. There prices are much higher than direct from maker or other, newer retailers, but you can look at the difference as an "availability" or "waitlist pass" premium. If you want a BB or MR or DT and don't want to get in a multi-year line, then you're going to have to pay more....

So, I don't have any problem with their pricing structure, I appreciated the service they provide, what they've done for the market, and that they continue to exist. I bought 1 knife from them online before the name change / physical store and processing was a bit pokey, but otherwise the experience was good / uneventful. Still, the chance that I will ever buy another knife from them is very low / 0. Not because they are bad, just because there are other options that are so much better in terms of price and service.... and I have enough knives that I don't need to pay the "I want it now" tax.


----------



## DevinT (Apr 11, 2013)

With custom knives the maker sets the price and then gives a discount to EE. All of the knives and Damascus that I have sold through EE/BG have been the same price that I would sell them. Dan O' promotes my work and exposes my work to a new audience which is worth the little bit that he gets.

My hope is that one day everyone will have a chance to meet Dan O' and get to talk knives with him. 

Love and respect 

Hoss


----------



## Noodle Soup (Apr 11, 2013)

My complaint against EE only applies to those of us that live in Washington. They are located in one of the highest sale tax areas of the state which means anything I might buy from them goes up by around 9% over their already premium prices. That is enough for me to take my business elsewhere.


----------



## Salty dog (Apr 11, 2013)

A little pricey maybe but he keeps some cool stuff in stock, hence I'm guilty of several late night impulse purchases, with no regrets. Never had issues so I don't know about follow up. Even though I'm not really buying knives anymore I still check the site out from time to time. You never know.


----------



## SpikeC (Apr 11, 2013)

Hoss, thank you for this information! It really makes purchasing from EE a good option, in my opinion.


----------



## stevenStefano (Apr 11, 2013)

Occasionally I look through all the old galleries at Foodie Forums and Dan O'Malley did some awesome rehandle work


----------



## Salty dog (Apr 11, 2013)

If I may add, it seems the makers he's been supporting are finding additional outlets as the knifeshere expands. I would assume they keep that in consideration when push comes to shove.


----------



## geezr (Apr 11, 2013)

:goodpost: DevinT and Bill Burke :thanx:
:beer:


----------



## apicius9 (Apr 12, 2013)

Not much to add, only had good dealings with them, but have not ordered for quite some time now. Dan rehandled my Blazen beautifully with a Kramerish-shaped piece of koa. At the time I grumbled a bit about the price of the koa piece but overall it was worth it. Good to hear that EE & Dan continue to support the makers. If I were in the market for anything and they had, it, I would not hesitate buying from them.

Stefan


----------



## Lucretia (Apr 12, 2013)

We've had excellent service purchasing on line and over the phone. The shipping isn't much worse than the gas to drive there, and if I remember correctly, if you're in WA and order from your home, the sales tax is adjusted for your point of purchase. If you go in and get a chance to talk to Daniel, it's a lot of fun. The man loves knives and is a wealth of information, and has been patient with newbie questions. I have a Western Shigefusa with an O'Malley handle that is a thing of beauty.


----------



## Bill Burke (Apr 12, 2013)

You are right Lucretia, sales tax in Washington is paid at the pos so doing a mail order from your home you only pay your regular sales tax. 

Also I might add it is Dan's love of knives and people that are the reason for EE/BG.

Many of you may not know that Dan played a violin in The Boston philharmonic at the adge of 12. He got his first college degree at 16. he spent several years as a volunteer on a suicide hot line, while he got a second college degree. He has abuilt computor models for several government agencies including the center for disease control. 

I am telling you all this to point out that there are other ways that Daniel could make his living and make way more money than he does at EE. But he chooses to do knives. I know times he has gone out of his way to make customers happy when I was telling him to "just say No". 

any way I think this thread has gone on long enough and I will not post in here again. just thought you all should have a little back ground.


----------



## knyfeknerd (Apr 12, 2013)

One of the things that I appreciate about KKF is hearing from the makers. Thanks guys, your opinions carry a lot of weight with me. 
I've never bought from EE, but perhaps someday when I'm in the market(aka rich!) for a DT or a BB!


----------



## Noodle Soup (Apr 12, 2013)

Bill Burke said:


> You are right Lucretia, sales tax in Washington is paid at the pos so doing a mail order from your home you only pay your regular sales tax.
> 
> Also I might add it is Dan's love of knives and people that are the reason for EE/BG.
> 
> ...



I'm afraid I don't agree with that statement. I don't know what they are supposed to do but buy anything from up in the Seattle Puget Sound area by mail and you always get hit with the full Seattle area sales tax. I bailed out on a purchase from EE some years ago when I saw that on the final total. One reason I wasn't happy to see Cabelas build in Olympia. If you run a business here you know that ever single little town and unincorporated area has its own rate.


----------



## Lucretia (Apr 13, 2013)

Got a couple of very nice PMs from Daniel & Drew at EE. Good followup on customer relations. Next time I'm in the area I plan to stop back in.

Although I don't know if I can forgive Daniel for playing the violin...


----------



## bieniek (Apr 14, 2013)

Bill Burke said:


> Also how many of you would let someone come to your house and flex your san mai knives when they would very probably stay bent. that's like going to a art gallery and being upset because you are asked not to lick the Monets and because you lick the paint in your own house all the time you think it should be ok. If someone where in my shop and started flexing Or bending my knives they would be asked to stop and if they insisted that it was ok because they wanted to see if my knives would flex, they would be asked to leave. like wise if they started "looking" at all the carbon steel knives leaving me with the job of cleaning and oiling them all to prevent problems from rusty finger prints showing up. if they first asked If they could test the flex of a particular knife I might say go ahead or I might tell them that since a particular model is a sanmai with very soft outer cladding and is not ment to be flexed because it will most likely bend instead of flexing, it would be different. Wsferrel posted that the counter person could have asked him several things but he could have voluntered this information also. No one can read minds.



1. I dont know what the staff is in the shop then? To smell or to assist? 
2. Customer service means providing this something extra that makes people feel somehwat special. That is why they are coming back. I think in many service-industries that is getting forgotten.

Also to mention, Yoshikane is not the most expensive or nicest knife ever and even if it would bend, the shop founded by such a specialist should be able to fix that! 


Now the my story with EE. My boss asked me what chefs knife should he buy. 
Tragically I said the damascus V2 Yoshikane from EE. The knife came without tip. Tip was never found in the box. 
The knife was packed poorly. No bubble wrap or paper in the knife box for 600 dollar purchase. Not enough bubble wrap in the cardboard posting box.

You know, for a man that bought his first high end knife to open the box and find a knife without a tip, its not nice. 
For seller to pack it like he doesnt give any shite for that long journey was just irresponsible and foolish.

And paying close to 50 dollars and duties and getting a broken product? Thanks but no thanks


----------



## DevinT (Apr 14, 2013)

Did they open it when it went through customs?


----------



## Crothcipt (Apr 14, 2013)

Lucretia said:


> LOL--no, probably the regular flannel and jeans Washington uniform. But it doesn't matter if I went in there in a pink polka-dot bikini furry bikini--they need to treat customers with a little respect.
> 
> Makes me think of my dad--it always seems like before he'd buy my mom a piece of jewelry, he'd go out and work in the yard, then head directly to the jewelry store in his nasty, holey, smelly yard clothes. Stores that treated him like a valued customer in spite of the fact that he looked like a slob tended to provide excellent service in general--and got more business.



This is how I rate restaurant service. Its easy to show up in a suit and get great service, but someone that is stinking can be tough.

Btw +10


----------



## RRLOVER (Apr 14, 2013)

I had the chance to check out a western Dan re-handled.This is what was going through my mind........."Oh my this is Really nice,I need to step up my game"


----------



## bieniek (Apr 15, 2013)

DevinT said:


> Did they open it when it went through customs?



Honestly I cant remember if the box was opened before we got it. Maybe I would if it happened. 
The knife was posted oficially to companys address with real value and description on. I dont think they had to open.


----------



## Noodle Soup (Apr 16, 2013)

Dan at EE tells me that I'm in error about them charging the full Seattle area sales tax to those of us that live outside that area. Given it his business I will take his word on the fact my post is in error. My own canceled order was a number of years ago now so it is possible I did not read the fine print close enough at the time. I apologize for the misinformation. I will stand by my statement that many Seattle area businesses charge the full amount to mail order customers outside their county. There is around a 2% spread between the Puget Sound area and many of the other counties.


----------



## Chef Niloc (May 16, 2013)

Most of you probably know my story with E.E. But ill rehash for the new guys. First I want to state upfront that I know of Bill's friendship with them and completely respect it. I'm sure it's well earned and I hope he doesn't hold this post against me.

E.E. has always had some great stuff and they have always been one of if not the most expensive places to get such high end knives. But that never deterred me from purchasing them. 

My Boycott if E.E. was do to the (In my opinion) unprofessional way they dealt with a non-refundable deposit left Special order. Long story is I left a deposit for a custom western handle shig and after two years the knife came in and they quoted me a price that was almost 2x the organelle price. It was my understanding that the deposit was to hold the price of the knife, they say it wasn't. That it was just to hold my place in line to buy the knife when it became available. Ok to be honest at the time (2 years after the order) I don't truly remember if there was a "Guaranteed" price, and I new that at the time of the phone call informing me of the knifes availability and price. So none of the above has any true barring on the Issue I have with them, it's what happened after that 1st call. 
When I was told about the price (on a Friday) I asked if I could think about it over the weekend, Drew agreed. That night I posted on the old forum this Exact post (it's a cut and paste because I don't know if I'm allowed to link to that site or post)


Chef-Niloc said:


> 07-27-10 00:30.54 - Post#2179267
> 
> 
> About 2 years ago I put down a depo on a Shigefusa and O'Malley Western /Petit. They just called me up, it's in. My problem is I think they upped the price?? I don't recall if we talked/ set a price back then?? Any way the knife is all most $900 , the cool part is I think I get to pick the wood that O'malley will use, Have any of you seen his handle work?
> ...



Something about that above post sent O'Malley into a rage, I say this because the next day he called me himself Insisting upon giving me a refund for my deposit. Note this is only one day after my first phone call with Drew. I at the time had not decided if I wanted to buy the knife. I was also at the time of the phone call not aware that he was angered by the above post

*Side note *because I really want to know as he still thinks to this day that the above post was an attack in him and his company? I asked him to re-read it, he sad he did and still, I quote


O'Malley said:


> I'll be honest. To me, your tone still seems very negative in the original post.


I don't see how I was perceived as being negative let alone attacking his business in any way? Was I? I sad how cool it would be to get to pick the wood he was going to make the handle with. I left off saying I think I'll buy the knife. All I was asking was all of your opinions on if you would buy the knife or not? So seriously does the way my post reads warrant driving a man into a fit of anger ( the old post on the old board, not this post), *I'd like to know what you all think?*

Anyway Back to the story, because at this time I'm still not upset or begrudged. My cliff note version of what O'Malley sad to me was (as posted on the other board)



chef-niloc said:


> Yup they got me mid dinner rush... Mr. O insisted on giving me a full refund of my deposit. He sad that he did not want me to have a knife that was too expensive for me & that he had 12 or more people begging him for the knife anyway.
> Guess that puts 1k back into the Hoss/Burke fund.



Salty was the first one to pick up on Mr. O's "Condescending tone"



> Did you detect a little attitude in the above statement? Sounds a little condescending. Like you've never dropped some coin on a knife?



And then Bert Mor agreed



> Scott
> 
> Yeah it did sound very defensive, Like Dan didn't like all the bad mouthing going on in here affecting his business. I can't blame him. As if Colin never spent a penny on a knife Sheesh. I bet Colin has a more expensive collection than Dan has inventory.



It was only at this point that I disclosed the full phone conversation ( until this I believe I wasn't negative or attacking in anyway, maybe it's just me)



chef-niloc said:


> I thought so my self, he was defensive & did talk about how he did not like all the talk on the board about it, how you guys did not understand the level of sugi's or his work & what his costs are. That's why he insisted on not selling me the knife, I think & I could be wrong that he was a little worried about me having buyers regret & that if so it would come up on the board?? I don't think he knew that a lot of you are in life my friends & that i'm not just " one of those" board posters? I was just posting to see what you all thought about the price & what wood you would pick. But he was insistent on giving me my money back so in the end I thought it best to let him do so as I did not want to convince him to still sell me the knife. I thought that he would be doing the handle work and that yes he would do a pro job but that he might not have had his hart in working on a knife for one that he might think a unworthy owner of his work? I don't know just something about how insistent he was turned me off & made me feel that the money would be best spent on another knife. As far as me having " worthy" knives I do believe I have the Best Burke knife there is.



After that I think Marco had some good points that cleared things up for me.



Marko-Tsourkan said:


> I think many here do understand the level of Shigefusa workmanship, and appreciate it. They also appreciate that fact that Shigefusa knives are relatively inexpensive, considering a skill level and time that goes into making them. I think it has been the philosophy of Iizuka-San - that Shigefusa knives are used as intended and not be the 'status' knives.
> 
> Aslo, Shigefusa has been very consistent with their pricing model and have not raised their prices often even during dollar weakening. To have an idea what the current prices are (though at these prices knives sell very fast) use JWW and Aframestokyo as a reference.
> 
> ...





Now even in my last post above I don't think I was harsh, unfair, nasty, or attack in anyway? at the time I think I was just maybe a little confused about his hostility? But after all that Dan has sad



O'Malley said:


> Your posts on the forum made it clear that you thought we were charging too much for the knife. This is why Drew posted that you felt that the knife was more expensive than you thought it would be. I don't like it when folks post in a public forum that we are taking advantage of them. you mentioned that you consider the board members to be your friends. I understand that. This said, it is a public forum. When you complain about a business or product, it is a public expression, not a private one. The tone of your messages on the board were very negative and made it clear that you were holding a significant grudge and felt that we were taking advantage of you. We don't want our customers to feel that way. As a chef I'm sure you've seen customers talking about restaurants in similar online forums ... it can very negatively affect public perception.



That's about it for now. Some closing Points "the men at E.E. are very sensitive and don't take criticism well ( that's a quote from a very very well respected founding member who wishes to remain anonymous after recent dealings with Dan and Drew) "
As for me I now find that I can't justify there high prices with so many other great venders out there. The way that talk and deal with customers ( who have spent 1000's with them) in a hostile and unfair way is just appalling, and from what I have herd and seen its only gotten worse over the years. Now I'm not saying this to be nasty in any way but its a fact that "Evil Mark" at CKTG has never treated customers in this type of fashion. I know this post won't win me to many friends on this forum (might even cost me a few?) but as a long time member I feel the need to "protect" by keeping the new informed. It's how and why Dave set this place up. Now that he no longer owns the forum he can't make the "ultimate" calls on who becomes a vender. I think new members are attracted to this forum (our home) in part do to our reputation of havering a well polished list of trusted craftsmen and venders. I can only hope this will not continue to change any further under the new ownership.
Colin


----------



## labor of love (May 16, 2013)

i dont think theres any real reason to even shop at EE as far as the american market is concerned. you can find better, more reputable service and prices and its not hard to find what they sell somewhere else. usually for much less.


----------



## mzer (May 16, 2013)

Seems like they might have taken your statements the wrong way, but it doesn't seem like they were really out of line in the way they took them. Their interpretation was reasonable, if not necessarily correct (that is only for you to know.) It hardly seems like the kind of incident that requires a boycott and three year grudge culminating in your posting something like "It's just a shame your company's customer service and business ethics don't match the rest of the package." in a welcome thread. That seems childinsh and, to be honest, validates their interpretation of your complaint.

It is possible for two parties to disagree significantly both of them in good faith. Carrying around an e-grudge is pretty weak.

Just my .02. My communications with them have been pleasant at the least.


----------



## labor of love (May 16, 2013)

i think its pretty important chef niloc shared his experience with the rest of us. i think EE really were very out of line. and i know a more than a few vendors that would never act that way.


----------



## mzer (May 16, 2013)

I don't believe I said he shouldn't. Information is good. It seems to me like a good faith misunderstanding perpetuated by one party (I am assuming EE doesn't think about Chef Niloc often) that has spilled over three years later in some pretty nasty and serious rhetoric. It's unfortunate.


----------



## chinacats (May 16, 2013)

labor of love said:


> i think its pretty important chef niloc shared his experience with the rest of us. i think EE really were very out of line. and i know a more than a few vendors that would never act that way.



+1

I totally agree. It's good to be able to weigh both positive and negative experiences. That said, my only experience with them was pleasant. I agree that they are targeting a higher level clientele; that said, I would think that Chef Niloc would be a great customer to have as his recommendation would mean a lot (and be seen by many). I also think that sometimes you may have to go out of the way to satisfy some customers and in this case something didn't work as it is should've

I think it says a lot that of all the complaints I have seen here at kkf that very few were directed at forum vendors and in the rare cases there were they were dealt with leaving both parties satisfied--at least in the public view. Cheers to the KKF vendors for a great job in the customer service department. Hope EE can/will live up to the high standards set here by others!


----------



## danielomalley (May 16, 2013)

I'm disappointed that Chef Niloc feels so upset by what happened. From our perspective, we had a customer that had asked to be put our our wait list for a particular Shigefusa knife. We ask people to put down $100 to get on the wait list and be notified when a particular knife arrives. This helps them keep in touch when they move and so forth. It doesn't guarantee price point, since there are a lot of things that affect price point, ranging from the wholesale price of the product to the dollar/yen conversion. As most folks on this forum know, in the last few years, then yen has went from approx. 120 yen/dollar to approx. 77 yen/dollar and most recently back up to about 95 yen/dollar. I wish the conversion rate didn't affect prices as much as it does, but there really isn't much way around it. It is largely due to the conversion rate that we can't guarantee prices on a product that may take years to arrive. Additionally, many makers (including Shigefusa) do not hold the price for us. This means that the price when we order may be very different from the price when the knife is completed and sent to us.

Drew contacted Chef Niloc when the knife arrived. He apparently seemed pretty shocked at the price, though the yen was at a very different point and this one was done with a custom handle by me (which adds on some funds). Our read of Chef Niloc's post on the forums was that he was pleased that the knife would soon be ready, but that he felt that the knife was way too expensive and that we were taking advantage of him. Given that we didn't want him or others to feel that this was the case, I contacted him and offered that we would be happy to offer him a refund if he thought the knife was too expensive. Unfortunately, rather than making things better, he felt that we were condescending. He felt that I was suggesting the he wasn't worthy of such a knife. My intend was (and still is) that I didn't want him to have to purchase a knife that he thought was overpriced even though we had ordered the knife for him. I expressed that it wasn't a big deal since I had some other folks that were interested in the knife -- so he didn't need to feel like he was leaving us in the lurch by not purchasing the knife that he had ordered.

Unfortunately, this is one of those places that there seems to be no way to win. I had hoped that offering to refund Chef Niloc's deposit would make him feel better, but unfortunately it made him more upset. I've tried to express this to him privately, but our understanding of what happened just doesn't meet -- which is a shame, since it really wasn't my or Drew's intension.

-daniel


----------



## danielomalley (May 16, 2013)

mzer said:


> I don't believe I said he shouldn't. Information is good. It seems to me like a good faith misunderstanding perpetuated by one party (I am assuming EE doesn't think about Chef Niloc often) that has spilled over three years later in some pretty nasty and serious rhetoric. It's unfortunate.



To be honest, mzer, I'm afraid I do think about Chef Niloc every few months. I try pretty hard to treat people well and this is one of those times that you keep on thinking, "they must not understand what I'm saying" and then keep on trying to figure out what you should have done differently. This was one of those times when it just seemed like there wasn't a way to respond appropriately. Clearly it would have been out of line to 'force' Chef Niloc to purchase a knife he felt was more expensive than it should have been. I had thought refunding his deposit would have been appreciated -- but instead it perpetuated the misunderstanding.

-daniel


----------



## Chef Niloc (May 16, 2013)

If the complaint was made about this post or the one in the welcome post I would have to agree with you. But it was the Attitude towards me after the original post and the way they handled the situation that brought on a "Grudge" as it may be. It's likely rekindled by them recently becoming a new vendor here. I don't think it would have happened on Dave's Watch. I know I'm not the only one here to have had "Bad experiences" in dealing with E.E. 
there have been to many times that myself or others have not spoken out for one reason or another. I don't sell knives or any other type of related service, Hell I don't even work any more so I have no reason to deter anyone from doing business with them that would benefit me in any way, other then as you suggest a heavy cyber grudge. however I think given my history here and those that know me it's safe to say that my statements and opinions have always been accurate and fair. I'm known to be one of the more out spoken members here, but not a "Cyber Saboteur". However your statement that my Original post Could easily be perceived as out of line is welcome, as I sad I didn't think so that's why I'm asking all of yours perception of it.
Thank you


mzer said:


> Seems like they might have taken your statements the wrong way, but it doesn't seem like they were really out of line in the way they took them. Their interpretation was reasonable, That seems childinsh and, to be honest, validates their interpretation of your complaint.
> 
> It is possible for two parties to disagree significantly both of them in good faith. Carrying around an e-grudge is pretty weak.
> 
> Just my .02. My communications with them have been pleasant at the least.


----------



## Chef Niloc (May 16, 2013)

chinacats said:


> +1
> 
> I totally agree. It's good to be able to weigh both positive and negative experiences. That said, my only experience with them was pleasant. I agree that they are targeting a higher level clientele; that said, I would think that Chef Niloc would be a great customer to have as his recommendation would mean a lot (and be seen by many). I also think that sometimes you may have to go out of the way to satisfy some customers and in this case something didn't work as it is should've
> 
> I think it says a lot that of all the complaints I have seen here at kkf that very few were directed at forum vendors and in the rare cases there were they were dealt with leaving both parties satisfied--at least in the public view. Cheers to the KKF vendors for a great job in the customer service department. Hope EE can/will live up to the high standards set here by others!


Thank you and thank's to " labor of love"
As I sad I know this post won't make me any more popular but it's good to see older members here that know me, understand where I'm coming from. Yes this is a old story re-tolled, but many old stories are Important to pass on and remember. It's Important that we keep each other and new members advised as to what happened in the past. It's one of the reasons why new members come here.



> Cheers to the KKF vendors for a great job in the customer service department. Hope EE can/will live up to the high standards set here by others!



This is one of my biggest concerns. When I 1st found out E.E. was on the vender list I was Shocked knowing there history with many members here. I asked around to find out how this happened and got answers, Hopefully some of them will speak up here as I have but I understand if they don't. I won't post about experiences others have had with them but I know of at least two members that have been here longer then me that have had recent issues with them.


----------



## labor of love (May 16, 2013)

mzer said:


> I don't believe I said he shouldn't. Information is good. It seems to me like a good faith misunderstanding perpetuated by one party (I am assuming EE doesn't think about Chef Niloc often) that has spilled over three years later in some pretty nasty and serious rhetoric. It's unfortunate.



i dont really care that it happened 3 years ago, 3 monthes ago, or 3 days ago. the fact that it happened at all is pretty telling.


----------



## DevinT (May 16, 2013)

@Chef Niloc, sorry this happened. It sucks when you have a certain expectation and it's not met. I think that you feel that you had spent enough money over the years to be one of their better customers. Everyone has a need to be heard and understood and I think that you've done a good job expressing your disappointment.

I'm a little disappointed that with all you've been through that this is the one grievance that you are focused on. The worst thing that happened, in this case, is that the two of you could not agree on a price and you received a refund. It would be more fun to hear about your ex-partner.

I would like to add that we all have a responsibility to be good customers. I lived in Japan for two years a long time ago and the attitude between customers and businesses was different than it is here. The customer was understanding of the business and the business was understanding of the customer and both tried hard to work together to create a mutually beneficial relationship. Here in America, if we don't get what we want, we throw a fit and try and cause as much damage on the business as possible.

I hope one day you will be able to forgive and move on. 

Love and respect

Hoss


----------



## jackslimpson (May 16, 2013)

I really like EE's rotating Christmas sales. I think the sale items change every two hours or so. Makes for some long nights, agonizing deliberation, and good prices. I got a 180mm Yoshikane Tamamoku pattern Deba for a really good value.

Cheers,

Jack


----------



## markenki (May 16, 2013)

jackslimpson said:


> I really like EE's rotating Christmas sales.


That's how I got my Blazen 180 gyuto a few years ago. It's still one of my favorite and most-used knives. I've been very happy with the service I've received from EE. Anyone who's in the area should definitely take the opportunity to check out EE in person.


----------



## Eric (May 16, 2013)

DevinT said:


> Wise Words......


----------



## danielomalley (May 16, 2013)

jackslimpson said:


> I really like EE's rotating Christmas sales. I think the sale items change every two hours or so. Makes for some long nights, agonizing deliberation, and good prices. I got a 180mm Yoshikane Tamamoku pattern Deba for a really good value.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jack



That's our Cyber Monday sale ... and it's actually a lot of fun for me as well. As Cyber Monday approaches, let met know if there are items that people are particularly interested in seeing on the sale. We listen to those request and try to get them in the rotation. It does make for a long night though ... it starts at midnight EST and goes until the next day at midnight PST with the items changing every 2 hours. While I've automated the process of the changeouts, I have to be up for about 15 minutes every 2 hours for those 28 hours to make sure that everything goes smoothly. That can make for a long 28 hours.


-daniel


----------



## WildBoar (May 16, 2013)

I'm not sure if there is a single vendor or craftsman in the KKF supply sphere who doesn't have some disgruntled customers. Even the best of businesses/ custom makers are going to piss off a customer at some point, even if it is entirely a communication error. I appreciate hearing the good and bad stories, as it helps me figure out who I would like to deal with. That said, my take on EE going forward would be make sure I understand all the terms of a custom order; live and learn from Colin's transaction. As far as ordering something that is in stock, it is up to me as the consumer to determine if I think their pricing is competitive, or if they add value that justifies a higher-then-market price. I shopped for a beginner j-knife to give my niece this past Christmas, and wound up ordering from EE. The transaction went fine, and the delivery was timely -- and I was happy, and so was my niece. The service EE offers to custom makers is interesting; you can get a DT, BB, etc. without a 1-2 year wait, and for the same price the maker would sell it to you directly. So I do have to give EE a round of applause for always presenting a way for custom makers to keep their cash flows going; in the end, it helps anyone who wants a custom knife from one of those makers down the road. It always sucks to hear about conflicts between vendors and customer; most of us probably face it from the vendor side at one time or another due to our businesses/ professions.


----------



## Chef Niloc (May 16, 2013)

DevinT said:


> @
> 
> I'm a little disappointed that with all you've been through that this is the one grievance that you are focused on. The worst thing that happened, in this case, is that the two of you could not agree on a price and you received a refund. It would be more fun to hear about your ex-partner.
> 
> Hoss


Sorry to disappoint you Hoss, not my intention. To be fair thus is not the " one grievance I have focused on" it just happens to be one that is related to this forum. My grievance is not that we couldn't agree on a price, there was no discussion of it. As a mater of fact the true Issue is the fact that after reading my post on K.F. He was insistent on not selling me the knife. Insistent enough (in a rude and insulting was) that I was not comfortable "begging" to buy it. I would give them the benefit of doubt that he was just trying to " do right by me" and from his posts in this thread one can see he is Definitely "taking the high road" whit Statements like



> To be honest, mzer, I'm afraid I do think about Chef Niloc every few months



Why would he think about me every few months, come on ill bet he had to look me up to remember who I was when he read my post here. But that's besides the point.
The fact stands that he was pretty much so pissed off by me posting about his company in a open forum that he took the Attitude he did. He says he was trying to let my mind at ease that it was ok if I didn't want to buy the knife as he could sell it to someone else easily. When in fact his statement was " I don't want you buying a knife that is to expensive for you, I have people begging me to buy this knife", So maybe its just the way he chose his words? At the time I did feel that he had higher offers then my original price and would rather sell the knife to some one for more money. NOTE: this might not have been the case at all it's just the thought that went threw my head. So in the end it's not the price it's how he dealt with me. 

Stories like this are posted for others to read and then make up there own mind on with whom to do business with. I post both my bad experiences and good ones fairly and equally as you should definitely know from your own experiences with me? Many here just post the good, I have even been "Bullied" into not posting negative things in the past as many here might be aware of. I know for a fact that other members have been threw this....Hell Dave was bullied off of K.F. That's why we are all here. 

And as stated before my "issue" with E.E. is not the only one, my in box has now has6 members who have had issues with the way they were treated by E.E. More recent than my case. So my story is not a Isolated case or one that has improved in the years since my dealings with Dan.


----------



## DevinT (May 16, 2013)

What do you think the best way to resolve this would be?

Hoss


----------



## mkmk (May 16, 2013)

So... um... is there going to be popcorn in this thread, too?


----------



## labor of love (May 16, 2013)

:threadjacked:


----------



## Chef Niloc (May 16, 2013)

There will be no stinking popcorn here.


----------



## Chef Doom (May 16, 2013)

Chef Niloc said:


> View attachment 15320
> 
> 
> There will be no stinking popcorn here.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :rofl2:


----------



## Chef Doom (May 16, 2013)

I'm going to try to put things in perspective Chef Niloc. I don't want you to take this the wrong way or as an attack because I'm not one to generally take sides. To be honest, I could easily agree with either side for various reasons. So to be fair, I will make another post directed to EE.

Let's say you owned a restaurant. Let's call it "Niloc's" for the fun of it. After talking potential business with me, you read a post on a restaurant forum the next day by me that read....

" 1. Just came from Niloc's yesterday. Can you believe they raised their prices. It was after I
made a reservation too. I don't think the new price points are worth the food they serve anymore
to be honest. What do you guys think. Would you guys go back and pay the new prices? 

2. Thinking about having him cater my anniversary next month. Should I go with the beef or the Lamb?"

Yup, that's what you sounded like.


----------



## Chef Doom (May 16, 2013)

And to you danielomalley,

I think the main misunderstanding that you are getting from Niloc's original post that was made so long ago is that you felt he thought you were trying to take advantage of him. To be honest, nothing about his original post hinted that he felt he was being taken for a sucker. Sticker shock is a natural reaction to the unexpected inflation. No matter how much we curse at the gas station for going from $3.60 to $4.05 in a couple of days, we still shove that damn nozzle in you gas tank and start pumping away. 

I think the only real mistake you made was focusing on the heat of the moment rather than judging him as an overall customer. I don't know the overall history or how much business was transacted between you two before this incident happened, but I will say you may have been justified if he was a first time customer. Yet it looks like he had given you business before and I think that should have been taken into account. 

I'm not Niloc, and I don't know how he thinks or feels, but if I was in his position, my thoughts would have probably been....

"I lay down a deposit, wait 2 freaking long years for my baby to come in, only to have the price doubled on me. And now you are telling me I can't afford nor am I worthy of the damn thing???? Are you ******* kidding me????"

Naturally I'm limited to what information I have read on the forum. And I don't think the dollar/yen conversion or the handle was the whole picture to be honest. Sure Mr. Iizuka raised the price on you, but since you are the retailer you get the angry "why is this so expensive" attitude. Most normal people vent about the expense of the things they want. That's just the way it is.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy (May 16, 2013)

I've ordered a few knives from them in the past, and even had Daniel rehandle a knife for me. The knives and rehandle service were very expensive, but I enjoyed the end products. He does some great work. I've been around these forums a long time, dating back to the old forum and i've heard all the horror stories including Colin's. Sounds like Daniel has made some mistakes, but no mortal sins. Can you forgive and move on? You don't have to forget, but without forgiving it just burns a hole in your soul.


----------



## Michael Rader (May 16, 2013)

Hey, how about them Mariner's? 
Looking like a pretty good team this year...

-M


----------



## sachem allison (May 16, 2013)

welcome Double E!


----------



## WildBoar (May 16, 2013)

Glad no one change the topic to DC United


----------



## Iceman91 (May 16, 2013)

Michael Rader said:


> Hey, how about them Mariner's?
> Looking like a pretty good team this year...
> 
> -M



This actually made me laugh out loud haha


----------



## Chef Niloc (May 17, 2013)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I've ordered a few knives from them in the past, and even had Daniel rehandle a knife for me. The knives and rehandle service were very expensive, but I enjoyed the end products. He does some great work. I've been around these forums a long time, dating back to the old forum and i've heard all the horror stories including Colin's. Sounds like Daniel has made some mistakes, but no mortal sins. Can you forgive and move on? You don't have to forget, but without forgiving it just burns a hole in your soul.



Has nothing to do with me forgiving or moving on, the story is old news to me and you as are all of the others. Some one (and as usual it's me) has to keep the new members informed to the past. Before new ownership EE would have never even been allowed to join the vender list. I know a few old members who would have good reasons not to come fourth and post about this. They are vested in the business and don't want to make any waves or enemies or appear petty, I understand. But this forum has a impeccable reputation of haveing a vender list that can be revered and trusted and I can see that changing.
Don't answer this question Jason if you don't want to.
But if this was our board and it were put to a vote, and you had a say, would you vote "Yes" to E.E. being on our vender list?


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy (May 17, 2013)

Chef Niloc said:


> Has nothing to do with me forgiving or moving on, the story is old news to me and you as are all of the others. Some one (and as usual it's me) has to keep the new members informed to the past. Before new ownership EE would have never even been allowed to join the vender list. I know a few old members who would have good reasons not to come fourth and post about this. They are vested in the business and don't want to make any waves or enemies or appear petty, I understand. But this forum has a impeccable reputation of haveing a vender list that can be revered and trusted and I can see that changing.
> Don't answer this question Jason if you don't want to.
> But if this was our board and it were put to a vote, and you had a say, would you vote "Yes" to E.E. being on our vender list?



Colin, here is my answer. Conflict is of no short supply to me. Daily, I deal with peoples issues that affect their professional/personal welfare and sometimes, national politics. While I agree with you that it's important to remember and remind the new members of past issues, I also believe that people grow and mature based on life experiences and mistakes. I also had a knives from Shig on order from JWW, and when my number came up I had to pay the current price which was much higher. This was many years ago, and I still bought the knives but I was a little annoyed since I thought we made a commitment to the price. Still, I think it is a good company and would continue to buy from them. I've bought many expensive knives, maybe not as many as you, but I know that with the exception of direct maker sales, third party vendors will charge the current price. Next, how Daniel initially addressed you was wrong. I was there and remember, and he was overly sensitive. I was upset at the time and fully supported your argument. Fast forward to today, not much has changed concerning his pricing but we gotta move on. Yes, I support him being a vendor here because he has done good things for the industry. It sounds like he has learned from his mistakes in the past, and it's time to move forward. Mistakes are mistakes, and we are human. I know I've made a few.


----------



## tk59 (May 17, 2013)

I've made a couple of over the phone purchases that I can remember. Both times, I asked for specs on multiple knives from the male salesperson. I was pleased with my purchasing experience. I'm not sure I've used EE since JKI opened. Frankly, you just can't beat what Jon brings to the table, esp. if you go in person. My two cents.


----------



## mainaman (May 17, 2013)

Chef Niloc said:


> Has nothing to do with me forgiving or moving on, the story is old news to me and you as are all of the others. Some one (and as usual it's me) has to keep the new members informed to the past. Before new ownership EE would have never even been allowed to join the vender list. I know a few old members who would have good reasons not to come fourth and post about this. They are vested in the business and don't want to make any waves or enemies or appear petty, I understand. But this forum has a impeccable reputation of haveing a vender list that can be revered and trusted and I can see that changing.
> Don't answer this question Jason if you don't want to.
> But if this was our board and it were put to a vote, and you had a say, would you vote "Yes" to E.E. being on our vender list?


I can appreciate your point of view, but this thread is starting to look a lot like you against EE, with the excuse of "letting the new people know". I am not sure what you gaining from this?


----------



## mzer (May 17, 2013)

This thread has gotten really far afield. Can you guys shut it down?


----------



## mhenry (May 17, 2013)

Thank you! This thread needs to go.




mainaman said:


> I can appreciate your point of view, but this thread is starting to look a lot like you against EE, with the excuse of "letting the new people know". I am not sure what you gaining from this?


----------



## Salty dog (May 17, 2013)

Why?


----------



## DevinT (May 17, 2013)

redundant


----------



## mzer (May 17, 2013)

Salty dog said:


> Why?



For me it is two pieces.

First, Chef Niloc's complaints are simply being repeated. There is no new information to be had about them, and locking the thread does not deny anybody access to the information already stated.

Second, and I might be alone here, he continues to throw around that "several other respected members have been bullied into silence but have contacted me." That strikes me as assassination through innuendo, and it is the kind of thing that, said over and over, gains its own legitimacy. As the OP, I can tell you that business destruction through rumor is not what I had planned for this thread.


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (May 17, 2013)

Let me say that I've bought several knives from The Epicurean Edge, including a couple of customs, and never had any issues or problems. 

Rick


----------



## Salty dog (May 17, 2013)

Me neither.


----------



## Lefty (May 17, 2013)

I don't like the possibilities of where this could go. We all know and have read more than enough to form an opinion on this subject. The fall out could be too great to bother keeping this open for what, shits and giggles?


----------



## unkajonet (May 17, 2013)

Ok. Thread is now closed. Enough have had their say. Please, everyone. Let's move on.


----------

