# finishing grit for japanese and western carbon



## OopsieIto (Oct 20, 2017)

Hi everyone. New user here.

I'm looking to add 1-2 waterstones to my set for use on both japanese knives and western carbon knives.

Currently, I have imanishi 1k and 4k stones. I also use an idahone rod on my western knives. I feel that the 4k stone is a little too coarse for some things (gyuto) and too fine for others (boning knife).

I use the following knives:

Japanese
-Masakage yuki gyuto 240mm (stainless clad carbon)
-Konosuke hd2 petty 150mm (semi-stainless)

Western carbon
-K Sabatier slicer 12"
-K Sabatier fillet knife 8"
-R Murphy boning knife 6"
-Dexter Russell Green River butcher knife 10"


A few questions:

I'm thinking of getting a 6k or even 8k stone for my japanese knives. Would 8k be too high for a general purpose knife?
Also, if I get a 6k stone, would it be good to progress 1k 4k 6k, seeing as I already have the 4k, or just go 1k 6k?

What is the recommended finishing grit for soft carbon steel?
I feel that 4k works well on the sabs, as I use them for fine fillets and slices and not in high volume, but could go lower (or higher?) if that is a waste of time or detrimental for the soft steel.

I've read that you don't want to go too high for boning knives, so perhaps finishing the r murphy boning knife on a 2-3k stone would be better? It is a harder steel though (relative to the sabs, not japanese knives) at ~59 HRC, so maybe 4k is fine.

I use the butcher knife for meat fabrication as well as an all-round heavy duty knife when I don't want to use my gyuto (pumpkins, cracking lobsters, gourds, pineapples etc.). I assume it's not really worth taking this knife past 1k? I do like to be able to cut pineapple skin off with ease though so maybe 2-3k would be fine? 

Would it be beneficial to get a 2-3k stone for soft western stainless? At the moment I just use 1k on this kind of knife when I sharpen my cheap paring knives or friends' knives.


Really appreciate any help!


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## K813zra (Oct 20, 2017)

I suppose that people will have different opinions about the subject. Me, I find that a 1-2-8k stone work for most of my needs. 1/2k for soft stainless and carbon and knives, like you describe, that will be used for heavy duty things and might need to be taken to the stone or rod frequently because of this. I use the 8k for higher refinement on knives for slicing raw protein such as fish etc. Now, I can manipulate this setup as well by going directly from 1-8k, which allows for some more bite in the edge. Or I can do the same but only strop and or deburr on the 8k which leaves for even more bite. I can do the same with the 1k and 2k, sharpen on the 1k strop on the 2k. 

Now, I have loads more stones than this but I really don't need them, nor do you. Wanting more stones is another matter and there is nothing wrong with that. Generally speaking, your 4k is right in the correct range for a knife that is going to make a lot of board contact. I like an edge in the 3-5k range for such a knife. But what should you add, if anything? Good question. A 2k or an 8k would be a good choice, or both. :doublethumbsup:

Just how I look at it. I am sure you will hear loads of other options.


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## Benuser (Oct 20, 2017)

I use the Naniwa Junpaku 8k for stropping and deburring vintage carbons, like Sabs and Sheffields.


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## psfred (Oct 20, 2017)

An 8k is all you need for carbon -- you can put a finer edge on it, but unless you want to shave your face with it, general kitchen work needs an edge with more "bite" except for raw protein like fish.

I might add a 2k, or a 1.2k Bester (lovely stone), and a 6k or 8k for polish when you want a very very fine edge or to strop for touchups.

All depends on what you use your knives for and how long they will hold an edge. Carbon steel in the RC 56 range will take a very fine edge, but it won't last, and CroMoVa steels wont' even take a fine edge. A 1k or 2k finish is all you want on CroMoVa, and 2k on carbon steel for "bite" in meat. Carbon steel maybe up to 4k, but if you do, use a smooth steel rather than an Idahone -- you want to re-align the edge, not grind a new one.

I've polished up my Korean spring steel knife to 12k, but it's not necessary, it won't stay that sharp long. Holds for a long time at 6k though. "Railroad steel" is what the maker claims, but who knows what that it.


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## Chef Doom (Oct 20, 2017)

Jump #1: 1k to 6k
Jump#2: 4k to 8k

I would go for a 10k myself but that is just me. Or even a natural.


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## Chef Doom (Oct 20, 2017)

Forget what I said. Screw the 6k and 8k. Get a natural finishing stone.


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## aaamax (Oct 20, 2017)

OopsieIto said:


> ...Currently, I have imanishi 1k and 4k stones...



i think you got some good advice above with the emphasis being on what are you using it for and/or how much fun you want to have.
Personally 90% of the time I use your 1-4k combo and end with a few strops on hard leather. This is the edge durability I like for the 12 hour passes I usually have to endure...lol. When the blade can fall through a tomato and last some days or even a week, I am satisfied.


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## OopsieIto (Oct 20, 2017)

Thanks for your advice! It was just what I was looking for.

I live in New Zealand so my options are a little bit limited unless I choose to ship internationally.

Locally, the 6k arishiyama and 8k imanishi (not kitayama) are available, so I will get one of these for stropping/deburring and when I want high polish. Imanishi 2k is also available, and I will probably add this at some point in the future when I have more funds.

Any thoughts on the above stones?

Thanks again!


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## Marcelo Amaral (Oct 21, 2017)

I love the Arashiyama 6k (aka Takenoko 8k). I find it fast for its grit and leaves a toothy edge, great for tomatoes. Not really good on soft stainless (works on aeb-l and R2) though as the edge won't last. If toothiness is your goal, your could go with a muddy Kouzaki Aoto too, but it feels like you are looking for something finer? In that case, you could go with a Kitayama 8k or a suita natural stone.


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## OopsieIto (Oct 21, 2017)

The knives (a gyuto and a petty) I have that would benefit from higher grit stones are used as general purpose knives, so some tooth is good. Having a look around the forum, the arashiyama 6k seems to be highly recommended so I'll likely go with that one. Natural stones are out of my price range (or are there good ones that aren't much more expensive than a synthetic?), but thanks for the recommendation!


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## Marcelo Amaral (Oct 21, 2017)

Good choice, let us know how it works for you!


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## K813zra (Oct 21, 2017)

OopsieIto said:


> The knives (a gyuto and a petty) I have that would benefit from higher grit stones are used as general purpose knives, so some tooth is good. Having a look around the forum, the arashiyama 6k seems to be highly recommended so I'll likely go with that one. Natural stones are out of my price range (or are there good ones that aren't much more expensive than a synthetic?), but thanks for the recommendation!



You can get a good but smaller stone for a little more than the average synthetic finisher. Something like an Aiiwatani Koppa for around $125. However, many natural finishers do better after finishing on a higher grit synthetic first, not that it is a requirement. Regardless, I'd go with the Arashiyama first and look at a natural after that. JMO.


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## ipq7 (Nov 5, 2017)

You should get a Kitayama 8k. It will do well on listed knives.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Nov 5, 2017)

@OopsieIto just for the record, there are still non-japanese (eg belgian) natural stones, and some of them are quite affordable. I'm uneasy about recommending them though just for the fact that they seem to be very different from piece to piece (owning a super soft blue belgian and a super hard yellow one, and advice about one applied to the other would end horribly...).


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## ipq7 (Nov 5, 2017)

I just read you have a Imanishi 4k. I also used to have one and looking back I have to say it was waste of time. The Imanishi is just too slow and the produced sharpness was not good enough. Think of selling this one and buying a Rika or Arashiyama or just go straight to the Kitayama.


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