# Bester 1,200: Performance Issues.



## cazhpfan (Jun 3, 2014)

Hi All!

I recently purchased a brand new Bester 1,200.

The stone just doesn't seem to cut. There's no slurry, the feel is very "glassy," and the surface simply glazes over with swarf.

Does the stone need to be lapped?

I've tried lapping it but can't seem to get it lapped with even a 150 grit drywall screen.

Is this normal behavior for a brand new Bester or am I missing a piece of the puzzle?

Should I just continue the caveman work of lapping it down?

Thanks for the help!


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## WingKKF (Jun 4, 2014)

I have a Bester 700 and it's thirsty and doesn't cut well either. You should probably lap it with something like a diamond plate to see if it helps. There's probably a good reason why these stones are less expensive than other well regarded stones like Shaptons and you're discovering them. Perhaps the grit of the stone is too high for the cutting performance you are expecting out of it. Try some lower grit stones like the Shapton Glass Stone 500 or one of the Gesshin coarse stones. IMO anything above 1000 grit is used for "polishing", not for "cutting".


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## labor of love (Jun 4, 2014)

that doesnt sound right at all. how long are you soaking it for?


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

Interesting. Seems like I'm not the only one.

Here's the thing: I'm using this stone to set the bevel on a straight razor. There's really not a material of to remove from the edge...

:scared4:



WingKKF said:


> I have a Bester 700 and it's thirsty and doesn't cut well either. You should probably lap it with something like a diamond plate to see if it helps. There's probably a good reason why these stones are less expensive than other well regarded stones like Shaptons and you're discovering them. Perhaps the grit of the stone is too high for the cutting performance you are expecting out of it. Try some lower grit stones like the Shapton Glass Stone 500 or one of the Gesshin coarse stones.


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

I would say about 20-30 mins.

I now have it soaking in a small tub overnight. I will see how it performs tomorrow.



labor of love said:


> that doesnt sound right at all. how long are you soaking it for?


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## WingKKF (Jun 4, 2014)

If you read the straight razor forums, I think you will find that many razor sharpeners use Shaptons or other stones rather than Besters.


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## labor of love (Jun 4, 2014)

The Bester 700 stone pretty much sucks, unfortunately I had to find out the hard way. The bester 1200 shouldnt load with swarf quickly at all, infact it loads kinda slow. I dunno what to tell you...Your experience is unique Ive never heard of a bester 1200 behaving that way.


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

Yes, I realize that. However, a couple of besters, an arashiyama, plus a suehiro combo stone is all I have at the moment. I know it's a poor-mans Chosera...

Actually, quite a few folks on badger and balde/SRP use DMTs to cut bevels on their razors...





WingKKF said:


> If you read the straight razor forums, I think you will find that many razor sharpeners use Shaptons or other stones rather than Besters.


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

Do you think soaking it for a prolonged period of time might help?



labor of love said:


> The Bester 700 stone pretty much sucks, unfortunately I had to find out the hard way. The bester 1200 shouldnt load with swarf quickly at all, infact it loads kinda slow. I dunno what to tell you...Your experience is unique Ive never heard of a bester 1200 behaving that way.


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## JBroida (Jun 4, 2014)

cazhpfan said:


> Do you think soaking it for a prolonged period of time might help?



not necessarily... if the stone is saturated, its saturated. It wont become softer with soaking, unlike resinoid stones. However, with ceramic stones like the bester, there is an outer layer of the stone that doesnt work as well as the inner layer (the result of how the stones are fired in kilns). In fact, you can notice differences in stones from the same batch based on where they were in the kiln. That being said, try flattening and see if that doesnt fix the problem, as the performance you are talking about is not normal for the bester 1200.


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

Thank you, John.

I am aware of the fact that the Bester is vitrified and was wondering whether that may have something do with it.

Are the stones fired as one large block that's then cut into stone-size pieces? Or is each stone fired individually within its mold?

What should I do if I can't lap it out with a 150 grit drywall screen? I don't have atoma 140 or a DMT XXC...



JBroida said:


> not necessarily... if the stone is saturated, its saturated. It wont become softer with soaking, unlike resinoid stones. However, with ceramic stones like the bester, there is an outer layer of the stone that doesnt work as well as the inner layer (the result of how the stones are fired in kilns). In fact, you can notice differences in stones from the same batch based on where they were in the kiln. That being said, try flattening and see if that doesnt fix the problem, as the performance you are talking about is not normal for the bester 1200.


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## JBroida (Jun 4, 2014)

these are fired individually

what do you have to lap your stones with? Dry wall screen is fine, as is very coarse wet/dry sand paper. You could even rub another similar stone against it if you needed to (not that i recommend that as a method of flattening, but there is a 3-stone method for flattening).


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

I use 150 grit drywall screen. Normally, it works just fine (except not this time).

With this stone, I can barely get the drywall screen to remove material.



JBroida said:


> these are fired individually
> 
> what do you have to lap your stones with? Dry wall screen is fine, as is very coarse wet/dry sand paper. You could even rub another similar stone against it if you needed to (not that i recommend that as a method of flattening, but there is a 3-stone method for flattening).


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## JBroida (Jun 4, 2014)

drywall screen is slow anyways... sadly, the solution is to just spend more time... sorry


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

I see.

What do you think would be the faster route to the finish line?



JBroida said:


> drywall screen is slow anyways... sadly, the solution is to just spend more time... sorry


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## JBroida (Jun 4, 2014)

the faster route is to pick up some kind of diamond flattening plate


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

Hmmm...would someone be willing to rent me their atoma 140? 

I'm not sure I have a need, or the material backing, to purchase an extra diamond plate right now...

My 400 grit plate just isn't cutting it.



JBroida said:


> the faster route is to pick up some kind of diamond flattening plate


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## JBroida (Jun 4, 2014)

i think i've got an old diamond plate sitting around... i'd be happy to send it to you if you want to pay for shipping. Its beat up after having me use it all of the time, but its still better than what you've got going on right now.


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

Thank you so much, John!

I'll cover shipping both ways.

Will send a PM in the morning tomorrow.

Once again, thank you!



JBroida said:


> i think i've got an old diamond plate sitting around... i'd be happy to send it to you if you want to pay for shipping. Its beat up after having me use it all of the time, but its still better than what you've got going on right now.


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## JBroida (Jun 4, 2014)

no need to send it back... its yours. I've got quite a few


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

I don't know what to say except that this is the first time that I've ever had a person on the internet do me a favor like this.

You, sir, are a true gentlemen.



JBroida said:


> no need to send it back... its yours. I've got quite a few


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## JBroida (Jun 4, 2014)

seriously, its not a problem at all. Shoot me an e-mail and we'll get it all figured out.


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

PM sent.



JBroida said:


> seriously, its not a problem at all. Shoot me an e-mail and we'll get it all figured out.


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## Lizzardborn (Jun 4, 2014)

I know this is a stupid thing to check but just in case - I currently wondered why a Sigma II 500 doesn't cut/slurry and I had terrible times lapping it with a diamond plate - like 15 minutes of work and can't erase any part of the pencil drawing so it turned I was using the wrong side of the stone. And there the thick layer of almost glass is hard to abrade away.


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## jer (Jun 4, 2014)

cazhpfan said:


> You, sir, are a true gentlemen.



A deserved reputation for sure.


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

I believe the Bester stones are double-sided. 



Lizzardborn said:


> I know this is a stupid thing to check but just in case - I currently wondered why a Sigma II 500 doesn't cut/slurry and I had terrible times lapping it with a diamond plate - like 15 minutes of work and can't erase any part of the pencil drawing so it turned I was using the wrong side of the stone. And there the thick layer of almost glass is hard to abrade away.


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## Boondocker (Jun 4, 2014)

There is a reason I recently upgraded my bester 1200 to a chosera 1000


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

I wish I could plop down an extra $80 for a chosera. The reality is that I just don't sharpen enough razors/knives to justify the expense.





Boondocker said:


> There is a reason I recently upgraded my bester 1200 to a chosera 1000


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## WingKKF (Jun 4, 2014)

@JBroida, wow didn't know stones could have an outer layer that did not work well. It's kinda of like some knives I suppose. Does this mean if I seriously grind away at the Bester I might have a usable stone rather than a door stop? How deep is this layer supposed to go? I've used the bester to try and thin out knives and it has some but not a whole lot of wear.


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## toddnmd (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm surprised by the OP's concerns. I have the same stone and it works fine. I've seen a ton of positive comments about the Bester 1200--seems one of the most common and solid recommendations. I'm curious to hear an update after using the diamond plate . . .


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## JBroida (Jun 4, 2014)

WingKKF said:


> @JBroida, wow didn't know stones could have an outer layer that did not work well. It's kinda of like some knives I suppose. Does this mean if I seriously grind away at the Bester I might have a usable stone rather than a door stop? How deep is this layer supposed to go? I've used the bester to try and thin out knives and it has some but not a whole lot of wear.


Not horribly thick.., maybe a mm or so... The stone will work well before getting though that, but works much better towards the center. FWIW, the beater works a lot better after a first good flattening


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## toddnmd (Jun 4, 2014)

Oh, and classy move, Mr. Broida!


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## cazhpfan (Jun 4, 2014)

An update is forthcoming as soon as I get to lap it.





toddnmd said:


> I'm surprised by the OP's concerns. I have the same stone and it works fine. I've seen a ton of positive comments about the Bester 1200--seems one of the most common and solid recommendations. I'm curious to hear an update after using the diamond plate . . .


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## labor of love (Jun 5, 2014)

Boondocker said:


> There is a reason I recently upgraded my bester 1200 to a chosera 1000





cazhpfan said:


> I wish I could plop down an extra $80 for a chosera. The reality is that I just don't sharpen enough razors/knives to justify the expense.


i dunno about chosera 1k personally, but i seriously doubt its nearly as fast as the gesshin 1200. Which is only $20-25 more than a bester 1200.


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## JBroida (Jun 5, 2014)

fwiw, the chocera dishes more slowly, but there are also plenty of things i like about my stone


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## labor of love (Jun 5, 2014)

Just to clarify, I didnt mean to knock Chosera stones at all, theyre great stones and Ive used them in the past and ive enjoyed them alot. But you could definitely upgrade from bester 1200 to gesshin 1200 and for a modest price.


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## BeerChef (Jun 5, 2014)

Love my bester 1200 and have no problems with it that being said, what jon did is cool as hell and just insured my next dollar spent on knives or stones goes to him.


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## Umberto (Jun 5, 2014)

If the stone loads up too quick then it's probably a good idea to use less pressure. Let the stone do the work. Any stone will make a good edge it's just some are more efficient than others.


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## cazhpfan (Jun 6, 2014)

lus1:



BeerChef said:


> Love my bester 1200 and have no problems with it that being said, _what jon did is cool as hell and just insured my next dollar spent on knives or stones goes to him_.


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## cazhpfan (Jun 15, 2014)

Thanks to Jon's incredible kindness, I have been able to use his 150 grit lapping plate to get the stone lapped.

I estimate that approximately the top 0.5mm of stone had to be removed before the Bester began performing the way it should.

On the subject of performance, this stone definitely lives up to all the great user reviews. It cuts quickly; leaves an even, uniform scratch pattern that's easy to remove with a finishing stone; has great feedback; produces a moderate amount of slurry; and dishes relatively slowly.

Thank you to all, and especially Jon, who have contributed to this thread.

Your input is very much appreciated!!!

:doublethumbsup:


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## stump_nola (Sep 5, 2014)

I know I am reviving an old post, but I am getting ready to order the Beston 500, Bester1200 and Suhiro Rika 5000. After reading this thread, I'm not so sure I should order this set. I am simply a home cook and looking for a stone set to sharpen my knives-some are dull but no blade damage.
If this set is not for me, what would one recommend?
BTW, I've never sharpened on stones before so this would be my first set.


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 5, 2014)

I've got that set and it rocks literally


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## stump_nola (Sep 5, 2014)

Mucho Bocho said:


> I've got that set and it rocks literally



That's good to know. Kind of eases my mind a bit.


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## mistascoopa (Sep 5, 2014)

That three stone sharpening set is a great starter set indeed, and priced well. I think you can do without the low grit stone for right now. When starting out, it's best to use the 1k as you base.


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## daveb (Sep 5, 2014)

I just set up a culinary intern with a loaner set, King 800, Bestor 1200 and Rika 5K along with a DMT XXC for flattening. (I did not want to have to fix anything that may have gone awry with a 500) She's had it a month and has the sharpest knives in her class. 

Interesting that they only teach rudimentary knife skills in her school and nothing at all about sharpening.

I like the 800 for a low grit stone but the 500 will also serve you well.


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## stump_nola (Sep 5, 2014)

daveb said:


> I just set up a culinary intern with a loaner set, King 800, Bestor 1200 and Rika 5K along with a DMT XXC for flattening. (I did not want to have to fix anything that may have gone awry with a 500) She's had it a month and has the sharpest knives in her class.
> 
> Interesting that they only teach rudimentary knife skills in her school and nothing at all about sharpening.
> 
> I like the 800 for a low grit stone but the 500 will also serve you well.



Dave, thanks for the info
Will a flattening stone and slurry stone be needed right away?


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## daveb (Sep 5, 2014)

Some sort of flattening will be needed sooner rather than later, esp on the lower grit stones as they wear the fastest. I like Jon's diamond plate, the Atoma is well thought of and I've used DMT successfully in the past. There are posts/threads on here that address using flat tile, cinder block and drywall screen to flatten with if you want/need to save some coin. Suggest plug "site:kitchenknifeforums.com flattening" into google for more info. Don't know that you would need a slurry stone for any of the stones under discussion here. Have fun!


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## daveb (Sep 5, 2014)

Some sort of flattening will be needed sooner rather than later, esp on the lower grit stones as they wear the fastest. I like Jon's diamond plate, the Atoma is well thought of and I've used DMT successfully in the past. There are posts/threads on here that address using flat tile, cinder block and drywall screen to flatten with if you want/need to save some coin. Suggest plug "site:kitchenknifeforums.com flattening" into google for more info. Don't know that you would need a slurry stone for any of the stones under discussion here. Have fun!


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