# Which is better: Bester 1200 or King 1200 with Rika 5k / King 6K ?



## Lordjazz (Dec 21, 2015)

Hey guys,

Which is the best combination: Bester 1200 or King 1200 with Rika 5k / King 6K ? 

Rika 5k and King 6K are aproximately the same price where I live but the Bester 1200 is twice the price of King 1200.

First I thought, I will simply go with King 1000 and King 6000 as Murray Carter uses. I bought his '' Sharpening Fundamentals '' video

Afterwards I started reading and find out about the combination - Bester 1200 with Rika 5k, and then I read that actually King 1000 is really bad ( Murray use it though :eyebrow and King 1200 is a lot better. 

Now I'm confused.. 
What I want is, to get scary sharp edges from some of my knives.
This is going to be the first set of stones for me. I have big variety of knives.

I will get also Atoma 400 for lapping purposes

I will appreciate any advice.


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## spoiledbroth (Dec 21, 2015)

Not sure what you're asking.

Better in what sense? As you have seen Murray Carter can rock the king 1k/6k. What kind of steel are your knives made out of? In my experience king work great on carbon. The bester/rika combination I found works better for modern stainless, and overall dishes less than the king (which I about the only complaint most people will level at king- they dish like crazy). You could do a lot worse than king 1k/rika 5k. I would recommend 1k over 1200.


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## Castalia (Dec 21, 2015)

Probably want the Atoma 140 for lapping. Start with a cheap 1000/6000 combo stone, it is only about $40-50 bucks and learn how to sharpen. Murray Carter is a great place to start, so are Jon Broida's Japanese Knife Import videos on you tube. Putting a basic edge on your knives freehand is not rocket surgery, though there are nuances if you want to do it well. I think some on the forum don't like the King 1000 because it is so muddy and dishes quickly. In the end sharpening is sharpening and getting some stones to learn on will set you on the path. You can pick up others as you progress and learn your own preferences.


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## psfred (Dec 21, 2015)

I greatly prefer the Bester 1200 to the King stones in that range, the Kings are very difficult to keep flat and most of my sharping is of woodworking tools, not knives. The Bester stays flatter MUCH longer, and handles even A2 steel with minimal hassle. The King will go out of flat so fast it becomes very difficult to get a plane blade sharp AND flat on the bevel, especially if rather dull. 

As for the King 6k, that's a different story. Mine is fairly hard, I use it as a splash and go, and it works very well. I have a Suerhiro Rika, but have not used it enough to tell if I like it better, but I suspect it's very nice for knives.

A King 1000/6000 or a Suehiro of similar grit will work fine to start to learn on, but you aren't going to spend that much more for the Bester1200/Suehiro Rika separate stones.

That pair of stones is a VERY good basis for good sharpening of many things, they really do work very well together. I have a wide variety of stones, but the Bester/Rika combo is probably going to be the main set for knives.

Peter


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## daveb (Dec 21, 2015)

You should keep in mind that Murray could sharpen a knife on a postage stamp. Jon, DaveM, Vincent and Maksim are equally skilled, have each contributed here, and each sharpens a little differently.

I'm not a fan of the King because as noted they're soft and dish like a bastard. No denying that they're inexpensive and have served many well.

I like the Bestor 1.2 and Rika 5K working together. For me they are especially effective on German stainless.

The JNS 1200 and 6K also merit consideration. These would set you back a little over 100 bucks and offer the convenience of being S&G.

Jon's 1/6K combo is another good choice.

There is a "which rock should I buy" questionnaire " avail in the sharpening forum that may get you more recommendations.


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## Lordjazz (Dec 21, 2015)

Thank you for the recommendations ! I dont think, I will have problem with dishing of the King 1000 or 1200 as I will get Atoma 400 to flatten them more often. Does the King dish twice faster then the Bester hence it is half price for the same size ? I read few post s of people highly recommending King 1200 over 1000 ( I think Davem was one of them ) Basically I want 2 stone set with which to be able to achieve face shaving sharpness if possible. The Atoma 400 will use for lapping of the stones and for major repairs of blades. 

Thank you Daveb for letting me know about the questionaire! 

Here is what I answered to it.



> LOCATION
> What country are you in?



Sweden



> STONE TYPE
> What type of stone are you interested in:
> Synthetic or Natural?



Doesn't matter 



> Splash and go or soaker?



Really doesnt matter for me.



> What grit range are you looking for?



1 coarser and 1 polishing stone, I will have Atoma 400 plate also




> Any previous experience with water stones? beginner, novice, skilled? Or other sharpening systems? (Jig type, Oil Stones, Diamond Plates, etc?)



No skill and no experience yet with none of above.



> What is your absolute maximum budget for your stone set?



Around 120 EUR for just the stones without the atoma plate.



> STONE USE
> Do you primarily intend to use this stone at home or a professional environment?



I will primarily use it at home.



> What type of knives will you be sharpening? (Traditional Japanese: yanagi, usuba, deba or Western style gyuto, petty etc)



Mostly Gyuto - german and japanese



> What type of steel will you be sharpening?



White steel, x50CrMoV15x50CrMoV15 carbon steel, blue steel and maybe in the future S30V or ZDP189(MC66)




> STONE MAINTENANCE
> Do you use or have a flattening plate (Yes or no.)



Yes. Atoma 400


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## spoiledbroth (Dec 21, 2015)

The bester line in general is very different from the king deluxe line. Bester are ceramic and so are much harder, they give a different feedback and don't produce alot of mud like the low grit king stones do. In my experience they work better with a bit more pressure than the king stones. The bester dish very slowly if you hadn't picked up on that yet. King stones are usually not the same size, but it depends on what region you are in I suppose. The bester tend to be a bit thinner but wider and slightly longer (check measurements, king does manufacture stones that are 205x75 (which I prefer) but they're not very common here in Canada.

IMO the Bester also abrade *most* steel I have tried faster. That being said I find sharpening carbon knives on king stones to be more pleasurable. My preference, your experience may differ.


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## Lordjazz (Dec 22, 2015)

Spoiledbroth should I understand that you prefer the Bester ? The Bester here is twice the price of King and its dimensions are 205 mm x 75 mm x 25 mm , The King dimensions are 207 mm x 66 mm x 34 mm, so exactly as you wrote. I guess Sweden is not so different from Canada except sizewise.


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## spoiledbroth (Dec 22, 2015)

Generally. I think it's a better stone considering the stainless you have.Maybe you can import direct from Japan to get it cheaper


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## berko (Dec 22, 2015)

i would get these two:

https://www.knivesandtools.de/de/pt/-naniwa-professional-stone-p308.htm
https://www.knivesandtools.de/de/pt/-naniwa-professional-stone-p330.htm

not sure about shipping tho...


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## Marcelo Amaral (Dec 22, 2015)

As you are located in Sweden, i would consider JNS' Matukusuyama 1k. It's faster than the King 800 and dishes less. So far, my favorite 1k stone.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-1000-matukusuyama/


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## psfred (Dec 22, 2015)

The King stones dish many times faster than the Bester -- in fact, it is usually necessary to flatten it multiple times while sharpening a plane blade, even with light pressure. All that mud is "stone" wearing off, after all. They work OK, but I'd guess you'd use three Kings to one Bester, maybe more. I have them, haven't used them at all since I got the Bester.

Your experience will probably differ.

Either will work, I just like the Bester much better. Cuts plenty fast enough for me, and as I said, will sharpen A2 with some work.

Peter


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## chinacats (Dec 22, 2015)

King wears quick, Bester feels like crap imo. I believe there are better options but between the two I prefer the King. As a beginner you may find it easier to hold the angle with the Bester. As Peter said, if you are sharpening other than knives that would alter the decision. You should flatten all synthetics before sharpening.

Technique is so much more important than material...make sure and watch Jon's videos.


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## Lordjazz (Dec 22, 2015)

> As you are located in Sweden, i would consider JNS' Matukusuyama 1k. It's faster than the King 800 and dishes less. So far, my favorite 1k stone.
> 
> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com...-matukusuyama/



The price of JNS 1k and 6K together is over my budget and I cannot afford to get Atoma plate then. Are they so good that is worth to skip the atoma 400 plate ?




> berko
> i would get these two:
> 
> https://www.knivesandtools.de/de/pt/...stone-p308.htm
> ...



Shipping is cheap - 10 EUR . It is not very popular combination I believe as I haven't seen it mentioned somewhere else. How do they compare to the mentioned of me stones ?



> chinacats
> King wears quick, Bester feels like crap imo. I believe there are better options but between the two I prefer the King. As a beginner you may find it easier to hold the angle with the Bester. As Peter said, if you are sharpening other than knives that would alter the decision. You should flatten all synthetics before sharpening.
> 
> Technique is so much more important than material...make sure and watch Jon's videos.



Hmm, interesting. What is the better option in aprox 120 EUR price range for you ?


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## Castalia (Dec 22, 2015)

For easy international shipping I recommend Japanese Chef's Knife:

http://japanesechefsknife.com/WhetStonesForSale.html#Whetstone

You may be overthinking it a bit. Get a medium and fine stone and start sharpening. Once you have some experience you will be in a better position to judge what you like or don't like about particular stones. Some like the King variety, some like the Bester and Suehiro Rika combo. In the end you are abrading your knife to get a sharper edge. Tell us about what you choose. :doublethumbsup:


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## chinacats (Dec 22, 2015)

Lordjazz said:


> Hmm, interesting. What is the better option in aprox 120 EUR price range for you ?



That is a personal decision...for the money you want to spend, I would buy the King...my suggestion (in Europe) would be to save a bit more money and pick up the Matukusuyama 1 and 6K stones from Japanese Natural Stones (JNS).


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## Pensacola Tiger (Dec 22, 2015)

Lordjazz said:


> The price of JNS 1k and 6K together is over my budget and I cannot afford to get Atoma plate then. Are they so good that is worth to skip the atoma 400 plate ?



The Atoma plate is a convenience for flattening your stones, not a necessity. You can flatten stones using drywall screen or sandpaper placed on a flat surface like a heavy piece of glass or a smooth floor tile.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Dec 22, 2015)

Lordjazz said:


> The price of JNS 1k and 6K together is over my budget and I cannot afford to get Atoma plate then. Are they so good that is worth to skip the atoma 400 plate ?



As Chinacats said, if possible, save a bit more and get the JNS 1k and another higher grit stone. Ideally with an atoma plate too if you can wait and save that much.


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## daveb (Dec 22, 2015)

I recall the JNS 1200 being considerably cheaper than the 1K.


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