# Kiyoshi Kato 240 Standard Gyuto Passaround



## tgfencer

Alright, so this brand new knife sorta fortuitously fell into my lap very recently. I need another 240 Kato like I need a hole in the head, so I really bought it just to keep it "in the family" as it were. I found the recent Jiro passaround a rather instructive experience so I thought letting folks cut through the hype and the price tags by experiencing a Kato first hand might be similarly useful for the community.

*IMPORTANT:*
-This is a *US-only* passaround. If you are outside this country, please don't try to include yourself.
-If you have *already used/owned* a Kato 240 standard, please refrain from entering as I'm trying to get the knife into the hands of the uninitiated. However, I get that some might want to compare a workhorse model to a standard and if so that's fine by me.
-This is meant for active members of the KKF community, so entrants should have a minimum of 50 posts. If you have a compelling argument otherwise, I'd rather you message me than spam posts just to pad your count.

*The Details:*
I will include *20* people on this passaround (if I fail to get sufficient interest I may decide to retract it and just sell/trade it). Much like the Jiro passaround, there will be a 'cost' associated with participating-*$35*. The knife is obviously quite valuable and relatively rare so this basically protects me somewhat from the knife "getting lost in the mail" and showing up later on Ebay for $$$$$.

-Each participant is expected to mail the knife to the next person with *tracking and insurance of* *$700 dollars *using whatever service they wish. Please don't keep the knife longer than a week to ensure this passaround keeps moving along at a good rate.

*The Participation Bonus:*
At the end of the passaround, I will assign a number to all interested participants and randomly draw one. The person whose number I draw gets the knife, no extra charge. Essentially, you could end up with a Kato for $35 and some shipping change. I intend to have it end up with Jon at JKI or someone similarly qualified, so it will be in good condition upon arrival to it's new owner.

Comment below if you want in.

Edit: Here is the final list and participant order (same as the post on page 3)

@SilverSwarfer
@McMan
@GorillaGrunt
@Ryndunk
@bahamaroot
@Cloudsmoker
@Cool_charlie
@labor of love
@CiderBear
@Barclid
@pgugger
@KCMande
@jimmy_d
@Nagakin
@captaincaed
@ryanjams
@TSF415
@Ivang
@slickmamba
@Barmoley
@Hamesjo


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## tgfencer




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## pgugger

I'd love to participate. I have never owned or used a Kato and am in the NY metro area (CT). Like so many others, I am curious what all the fuss is about, but haven't been willing to pay >$1000 to find out. Thanks for offering this opportunity!


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## labor of love

Wait, so 20 people x $35=$700? Then you give away the knife at the end? Seems like you’re losing hundreds of dollars in this arrangement.


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## tgfencer

labor of love said:


> Wait, so 20 people x $35=$700? Then you give away the knife at the end? Seems like your losing hundreds of dollars in this arrangement.



I would be, if $700 wasn’t what I paid for it. 

Guess some might say I’m technically still losing hundreds given the market value, but I’m okay with that.


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## labor of love

Wow. Great move on your part.


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## esoo

I have to say this is epic. Unfortunately I live to the North.


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## BJE1

I would be interested


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## tgfencer

esoo said:


> I have to say this is epic. Unfortunately I live to the North.



I might decide to include Canada if there aren't enough folks in the US. I just didn't think it was fair to make two members pay the extra money for insured international shipping (plus any associated taxes). Plus there's always a bit more risk and time associated.


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## Ivang

Awesome! Id like to be in if possible.


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## esoo

tgfencer said:


> I might decide to include Canada if there aren't enough folks in the US. I just didn't think it was fair to make two members pay the extra money for insured international shipping (plus any associated taxes). Plus there's always a bit more risk and time associated.


 If you extend to the north, please keep me in mind


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## Matus

This is super cool from you! Makes me think that it is maybe not a complete waste of time trying to keep KKF a nice place to hang around.


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## Xenif

If there is a Canadian Leg of this tour, I'd be very interested


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## Supraunleaded

Actually nevermind about my participation. Still very generous of you to offer a Kato to try.


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## Hamesjo

This sounds awesome, I'd love to participate if you'll have me


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## slickmamba

I'd love to be in!


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## McMan

PM sent.
Respect--very cool thing to do and very much in the spirit of the forum.


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## nakneker

Pm sent. Hope this materializes, good on you.


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## Nagakin

I'm also interested. This sounds really cool.

Edit: idk how you choose order but please but me towards the end.


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## ian

Nice contribution to the community. I'll pass, but I imagine you'll make some people really happy.


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## TSF415

This may be one of the coolest things I’ve read and hope to experience. And this is what makes kkf great. I’m in.


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## Carl Kotte

Wrong continent, just wanted to say how cool and generous you are! Fantastic!


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## Corradobrit1

This is how people get hooked on crack. 

Nice gesture. I already own a couple of Kato's so I'm a lost cause.


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## GorillaGrunt

I’m in, I’d love to use a Kato!


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## Briochy

Definitely in!


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## Corradobrit1

Briochy said:


> Definitely in!


Last time i checked Aus was not part of the US.


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## IsoJ

Classy move, lots of respect.


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## tgfencer

Briochy said:


> Definitely in!



Are you in Aus? I’m assuming people have read the original post, so if you haven’t please go back and do so.


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## milas555

Great idea.
In Europe, someone can implement such a project.
Maybe Maxim will clean up under the wardrobe? ;-)


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## lagrangeL2

PM sent and quite good of you to do this.


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## Runner_up

Very cool move on the OP's part.


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## KCMande

I would love to give a Kato a spin, if there is still room please include me


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## Ryndunk

Any spots left? I'll join.


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## tgfencer

I've got 16 on the list at the moment including Ryndunk. Still a few more spots available.


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## Briochy

tgfencer said:


> Are you in Aus? I’m assuming people have read the original post, so if you haven’t please go back and do so.


I'm so sorry, just ignore me. I just woke up after a late night and saw a notification so I didn't read the OP


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## Jville

Man, I can feel the love!! This is the kind of stuff that makes the community great! If I hadn't tried/owned Katos I would be all in on this one. What a great opportunity for people to experience a legend.


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## bahamaroot

PM sent.

A Kato for $700...did a fairy pee on you recently?


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## Jville

bahamaroot said:


> PM sent.
> 
> A Kato for $700...did a fairy pee on you recently?



It's for a pass around Jeff, not for you .


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## Barclid

I'm down if you still have space.


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## captaincaed

I'd be happy to do a comparison vid with some other big hitters if there's still room.
Lots of generosity around here these days.


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## Corradobrit1

captaincaed said:


> I'd be happy to do a comparison vid with some other big hitters if there's still room.
> Lots of generosity around here these days.


Kato vs TF Denka?


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## panda

@tgfencer I like your style. :thumbsup:. What a great concept.

I would add one rule. Who ever wins the knife at the end cannot sell it, only pass it along or trade.


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## captaincaed

Corradobrit1 said:


> Kato vs TF Denka?


Kato v TF Denka v Mario v Rader v Yoshikane SLD v Xerxes v Ikeda blue honyaki v Kochi v ....?
If anyone in the PNW wants to drive over that day we can have mir poix thunderdome, Thai style BBQ and snooty beer


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## Nagakin

captaincaed said:


> Kato v TF Denka v Mario v Rader v Yoshikane SLD v Xerxes v Ikeda blue honyaki v Kochi v ....?
> If anyone in the PNW wants to drive over that day we can have mir poix thunderdome, Thai style BBQ and snooty beer


holding you to it.


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## CiderBear

I hope I'm not too late for this. I'd love to join the passaround


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## ryanjams

Damn, slept on this! I’m in if you still have any spots


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## ma_sha1

Wow, amazing generosity!

I’ve used Shig. Kasumi but not yet Kato.
Count me in please.


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## madelinez

Ahh one of the benefits of living in the US.


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## tgfencer

Alright, we're all full up folks! Thanks for the kind words and all the interest. Sorry to those who missed out, but I don't want this knife to travel around forever.

*
As the next step moving forward, I need two things from everyone.
First, is $35 sent to [email protected] via Paypal FF. Please include your KKF username in the comments so I know who sent it.
Secondly, if everyone can shoot me a message telling me their city and state, that will help me generate a sensible order for the knife to take around the country. The quicker everyone does this, the quicker the knife gets moving.

Lastly, I've had a few questions about sharpening and polishing. If you're up to it, feel free to touch up the edge on strops or stones as needed, just be responsible and realistic. I've got a few select people scattered in the group who will fix any larger problems that arise or thin as needed. Likewise, feel free to do some light polishing if you want, but keep it to high grit sandpapers/etc and fingerstones. I'd very much prefer folks not try to polish with stones as this is quite a convex knife.


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## tgfencer

panda said:


> @tgfencer I like your style. :thumbsup:. What a great concept.
> 
> I would add one rule. Who ever wins the knife at the end cannot sell it, only pass it along or trade.



Not something I could realistically enforce after the fact, but this is what I hope would happen.


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## Gjackson98

Just saw this thread, you are a good man! 
Kato 240 std is a very special cutter, hope you all enjoy it.


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## Luftmensch

@tgfencer... a generous opportunity for the community! A true gentleman!


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## marc4pt0

I’ve used plenty of WH Katos, yet only one Standard which was a 210 size. I was very impressed by it but never felt the urge to spend the $$ on one. It would be fun to try out a 240 standard, but the list looks pretty full as is. 
If this bad boy should make it to the MD or D.C. area I’d be happy to meet and play for a few minutes. 
Very fun pass around, I’d be interested to hear all the participants feedback and thoughts given the hype that is Kato


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## tgfencer

marc4pt0 said:


> I’ve used plenty of WH Katos, yet only one Standard which was a 210 size. I was very impressed by it but never felt the urge to spend the $$ on one. It would be fun to try out a 240 standard, but the list looks pretty full as is.
> If this bad boy should make it to the MD or D.C. area I’d be happy to meet and play for a few minutes.
> Very fun pass around, I’d be interested to hear all the participants feedback and thoughts given the hype that is Kato



The list is full. However I'm happy for folks outside the list to get together with a participant who is in their area while it's in their possession. The more the merrier, as long as people don't keep it longer than a week while trying to arrange such a get-together.


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## captaincaed

I'll open up my place in Seattle to 2-3 others to join in, should you want to. Let's do it over PM.


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## Cloudsmoker

PM sent now too. Thanks!


captaincaed said:


> I'll open up my place in Seattle to 2-3 others to join in, should you want to. Let's do it over PM.


Same here for Dallas, Texas.


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## JayS20

I hate being in Europe. So much harder to get some knives and much more expensive. Really interested to hear from the recipients. Also really generous offer @tgfencer .


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## jimmy_d

Wow, super cool move @tgfencer ! Wish I saw this one a little earlier, the Jiro pass was fun and would have loved to try this one. If anyone is in MA or southern NH, would love to meet up!


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## bahamaroot

Jville said:


> It's for a pass around Jeff, not for you .


One can always hope!


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## Jville

I thought some of these guys on list had tried Katos.


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## labor of love

Jville said:


> I thought some of these guys on list had tried Katos.


Yeah, but not standard Kato.


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## Jville

labor of love said:


> Yeah, but not standard Kato.



Gotcha, definitely different knives.


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## tgfencer

Thanks for all those who got in touch already. I'm currently waiting on payment ([email protected]) and locations from the following folks:

@Barclid
@captaincaed
@Ivang
@McMan
@BJE1
@slickmamba
@lagrangeL2
@Nagakin


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## slickmamba

Ahh crap sending now


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## captaincaed

My bad, sorry finals season is a killer. Sent.


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## Matus

Jville said:


> Gotcha, definitely different knives.



Grind and geometry is the same on 'standard' and 'WH', but steel and size are not.


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## labor of love

All the kato workhorses I used were a lot heavier than this specimen. Pretty excited just on that fact alone, yeah the workhorse is a longer blade than standard, but still there was plenty of beef.
228 gram standard vs like 270-280grams atleast.


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## Matus

My WH weights 240g while being 53 tall and nearly 250 long. My friend has a WH that is also 240g and 50 tall and 250 long, another one has 280g and 54 tall and about 250 long. The variations are pretty large.


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## labor of love

Not surprised at all. My sample size (3 wh) proved deceiving.


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## captaincaed

That's QC for ya. It's about the same in US healthcare. Always have dubious lab tests repeated. Just saying.


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## GorillaGrunt

Matus said:


> Grind and geometry is the same on 'standard' and 'WH', but steel and size are not.



This is the first I’ve heard about the steel — what’s the difference?


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## Jville

Matus said:


> Grind and geometry is the same on 'standard' and 'WH', but steel and size are not.



I don't have a lot of experience. Only used one workhorse and owned one standard, both 240s. But between those two examples they were very different in feeling and performance.


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## Barmoley

Standard is supposed to be wh2, workhorse some special older batch of steel, not clear what exactly.


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## Corradobrit1

Barmoley said:


> Standard is supposed to be wh2, workhorse some special older batch of steel, not clear what exactly.


Its my understanding that all Kato's STD line output over past 18 months has been Blue #2. So whether this particular example is W#2 or B#2 will depend when it was made. I'm not sure if the 'special' steel is still used for the WH.


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## ynot1985

Jville said:


> I don't have a lot of experience. Only used one workhorse and owned one standard, both 240s. But between those two examples they were very different in feeling and performance.




the wh is a JNS exclusive profile. Longer and have a more obvious belly as compare to the standard.

Standards always run short, WH always run longer than stated


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## Matus

Funny thing is, apparently even Kato himself has no idea what steel is the batch he uses for the WH - it really could be anything


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## tgfencer

For those who are interested, the invoice on this particular knife says blue steel. It is 230x50mm and I seem to recall about 220-225g, but I'd have to weigh it again.

It's almost identical in specs to my other Kato standard 240 gyuto, which is white steel and a bit heavier, and 3+ years old. My WH definitely is oversized in comparison, but I don't have the measurements to hand.

FYI, Just waiting on 2-3 people now, so I hope to have this up and running by the end of the week.


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## tgfencer

Alright, so here's the passaround list in order. We're essentially going middle of the country, east coast, then west coast (sorry westies). The knife was sent on its way this morning. 

*Order:*
@SilverSwarfer
@McMan
@GorillaGrunt
@Ryndunk
@bahamaroot
@Cloudsmoker
@Cool_charlie
@labor of love 
@CiderBear
@Barclid
@pgugger 
@ma_sha1 
@KCMande 
@jimmy_d 
@Nagakin 
@captaincaed 
@ryanjams
@TSF415 
@Ivang 
@slickmamba 
@Barmoley 
@Hamesjo 

*Reminders:*
-Please keep to the 1 week time frame. If people start extending the time they have the knife, this passaround will take forever.
-When it comes time to ship, reach out to the next person on the list via PM here on KKF and get their address off them. (I've grouped folks in the same city or close by, so direct hand-offs may be possible if desired.)
-Ship with tracking and insured for $700

I realize this is going to take the better part of a year and y'all have lives, so if there are scheduling conflicts when your turn comes up, let me know and we'll work something out.

Lastly, regarding coronavirus: Might be unnecessary to address this since the situation will most likely change during the course of the year, but please be smart and considerate. If there's an outbreak in your area and you or someone close to you happens to be feeling a bit flu-ish, perhaps it would be best to reschedule your spot in the list.


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## captaincaed

West coast. Terrible time zone, apparently bad for passarounds (especially during COVID).


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## CiderBear

captaincaed said:


> West coast. Terrible time zone, apparently bad for passarounds (especially during COVID).



East Coast, I just came back from an overseas trip so work is asking me to "voluntarily" self-quarantine. Everyone else is working from home out of an abundance of caution.

This is the perfect time for a passaround, lol


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## panda

Looks like more than 20 ppl


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## tgfencer

panda said:


> Looks like more than 20 ppl



You are correct. For a few reasons, but mainly because I lost count while juggling messages and once I figured it out I didn't really see the point in kicking out one or two people. The extra money will go toward paying Jon to fix it up at the end of the passaround and potentially a new handle as well (the one it came with was installed a little squint).


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## bbrooks008

CiderBear said:


> East Coast, I just came back from an overseas trip so work is asking me to "voluntarily" self-quarantine. Everyone else is working from home out of an abundance of caution.
> 
> This is the perfect time for a passaround, lol


Can we get a wedge test video please?


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## Nagakin

captaincaed said:


> West coast. Terrible time zone, apparently bad for passarounds (especially during COVID).


My restaurant just laid off close to 30 after losing mid-7 figures in banquets through May. Not looking good for cooks out here.


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## CiderBear

Nagakin said:


> My restaurant just laid off close to 30 after losing mid-7 figures in banquets through May. Not looking good for cooks out here.



Get someone to send me a Shig gyuto/ nakiri and a Denka that week and I can arrange something


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## captaincaed

Nagakin said:


> My restaurant just laid off close to 30 after losing mid-7 figures in banquets through May. Not looking good for cooks out here.


Jesus that really sucks. I'm in public health, so business is booming...


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## Gregmega

tgfencer said:


> For those who are interested, the invoice on this particular knife says blue steel. It is 230x50mm and I seem to recall about 220-225g, but I'd have to weigh it again.
> 
> It's almost identical in specs to my other Kato standard 240 gyuto, which is white steel and a bit heavier, and 3+ years old. My WH definitely is oversized in comparison, but I don't have the measurements to hand.
> 
> FYI, Just waiting on 2-3 people now, so I hope to have this up and running by the end of the week.



I (think I) got one from the same batch/vendor, specs are identical and the weight is 217 on mine. And yeah. That handle is wonky af.


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## TSF415

Gregmega said:


> I got one from the same batch/vendor, specs are identical and the weight is 217 on mine. And yeah. That handle is wonky af.


The mysterious vendor arises again. I want in. Lol


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## Gregmega

Pre-ordered a long time ago, so to speak.


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## TSF415

Haha fair enough. I just want to try one so I can understand. I don’t think for the price I’d go crazy for one. Super excited for the pass around


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## tgfencer

TSF415 said:


> The mysterious vendor arises again. I want in. Lol



There's no real reason it's a mystery. Knife Merchant, but it won't do any good to go pestering them. The lady at the store told me they only had two come in and they didn't offer them to the general public. This is only the second time they've ever had Kato to my knowledge, the first time was a couple of years ago.



Gregmega said:


> I (think I) got one from the same batch/vendor, specs are identical and the weight is 217 on mine. And yeah. That handle is wonky af.



Yeah, the handle seemed decent quality, which is a shame. The crookedness on this one looks worse than it feels in hand, I actually don't really notice it in pinch, but it would annoy me enough to replace it if I intended on keeping it. One of Jon's burnt chestnut handles on this Kato would be great I think, but I'll let the new owner decide what appeals to them.


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## Gregmega

tgfencer said:


> There's no real reason it's a mystery. Knife Merchant, but it won't do any good to go pestering them. The lady at the store told me they only had two come in and they didn't offer them to the general public. This is only the second time they've ever had Kato to my knowledge, the first time was a couple of years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the handle seemed decent quality, which is a shame. The crookedness on this one looks worse than it feels in hand, I actually don't really notice it in pinch, but it would annoy me enough to replace it if I intended on keeping it. One of Jon's burnt chestnut handles on this Kato would be great I think, but I'll let the new owner decide what appeals to them.



Samsies. Looking to head over to JKI for a swap myself.


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## SilverSwarfer

Knife was received (couple days late.. thanks, USPS) today. Initial impression is very positive. More to follow for all once I have a chance to bond with the blade.

I am extremely honored and excited to have this opportunity. @tgfencer is a model citizen of this community, and has my utmost respect. This Passaround is a kind and beneficial reflection of that sentiment. I am truly grateful.

Who’s up next on the list will receive PM from me when this fine blade is moving on. I will also update here, and include detailed thoughts on my experience with the knife.


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## bahamaroot

Gregmega said:


> I (think I) got one from the same batch/vendor, specs are identical and the weight is 217 on mine. And yeah. That handle is wonky af.


So does that mean you have a $700 Kato too?! Only in my dreams...


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## SilverSwarfer

I’m set to send the knife to next in line. I’ve PM’d @labor of love and I’ll get the pkg sent off as quickly as possible. Please note the governor of my state has signed a “stay home” order so that may introduce some challenges. Worst case I can coordinate with my postal delivery person and just print a label at home so I can hand the pkg to him/her. If there is any delay I will post the situation here but I anticipate worst case I’ll be able to send it off Monday or potentially Tuesday if there’s an unforeseen issue. Regardless I will update when there’s news. 

I have very much enjoyed my time with this blade. Will post some detailed thoughts in the next day or so.


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## McMan

SilverSwarfer said:


> I’m set to send the knife to next in line. I’ve PM’d @labor of love and I’ll get the pkg sent off as quickly as possible. Please note the governor of my state has signed a “stay home” order so that may introduce some challenges. Worst case I can coordinate with my postal delivery person and just print a label at home so I can hand the pkg to him/her. If there is any delay I will post the situation here but I anticipate worst case I’ll be able to send it off Monday or potentially Tuesday if there’s an unforeseen issue. Regardless I will update when there’s news.
> 
> I have very much enjoyed my time with this blade. Will post some detailed thoughts in the next day or so.





tgfencer said:


> Alright, so here's the passaround list in order. We're essentially going middle of the country, east coast, then west coast (sorry westies). The knife was sent on its way this morning.
> 
> *Order:*
> @SilverSwarfer
> @McMan
> @GorillaGrunt
> @Ryndunk
> @bahamaroot
> @Cloudsmoker
> @Cool_charlie
> @labor of love
> @CiderBear
> @Barclid
> @pgugger
> @ma_sha1
> @KCMande
> @jimmy_d
> @Nagakin
> @captaincaed
> @ryanjams
> @TSF415
> @Ivang
> @slickmamba
> @Barmoley
> @Hamesjo



Labor Who? I thought I was next. What'd he cut the line?!


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## SilverSwarfer

McMan said:


> Labor Who? I thought I was next. What'd he cut the line?!


Whoops! I worked from the wrong list. Scrolled through and checked the 1st one I saw. Thanks for the correction! Please PM your address and the rest of my msg above applies.


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## tgfencer

Glad to see it got worked out. I have gone back and deleted that other earlier list, so now only the final and correct one remains. I have also gone back and added the list to the first post of the thread so it is easier to find. 

Seems USPS package pickup services might be useful to many people on this passaround as a way to limit exposure at a post office or to get around movement restrictions. I hope everyone stays safe and remember if you have any concerns at all about the passaround, please feel free to reach out to me.


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## bahamaroot

tgfencer said:


> ...Seems USPS package pickup services might be useful to many people on this passaround as a way to limit exposure at a post office or to get around movement restrictions...


I started using their package pick-up a few years ago, used it just yesterday. It's so much more convenient than actually going to the post office and it's FREE!


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## SilverSwarfer

I found myself melancholy as I packed up the Kato for shipping to the next lucky participant in this Passaround. My time with the knife was enjoyable and interesting.

It is my humble opinion that the hype around these blades creates a kind of ugly situation for those of us who use knives as tools of our trade in pro kitchens. I am one of those who is effectively “priced out” of a knife like this, considering my philosophy of use. It’s rather sad because this knife is not super fancy aesthetically (exotic materials, minute details, etc), or in configuration. It’s a well-made instrument of culinary craft. I have a handful of similar Gyuto that are just as fun and effective in use (in their own ways), that can be had for a fraction of current Kato costs.

I am incredibly appreciative of the thoughtful craftsmanship put in to this knife. Spartan in appearance but sophisticated in design, cutting performance was great. The knife is unique but not revolutionary. Completely subjective assessment, I intend to stir no controversy.

I loved the feel in hand. I’m not particular in selecting Gyuto configurations. I tend to adapt to what’s in hand; this approach has served me well and kept me flexible. This is a pretty short-heeled and stout knife that’s hefty at the spine yet still thin behind the edge. The grind makes for an awesome feedback profile on the cutting boards. I found edge retention to be great. Not outstanding but above average in the field of similarly forged knives. I found it to be really handy and easy to wield.

I sharpened the knife a couple times, with a very low impact approach. I kept my focus on the secondary bevel and followed the original geometry closely. This was frustrating because I tend to push my edges and thin often. I also saw a lot of polishing potential in this knife. The cladding lines are lovely on this example and the NIB finish obscures the beauty underneath. The feel on the stones was pleasant. The steel felt to be a near perfect hardness for my taste. Raising a small burr was quick on a 3k Sigma Select. Refined a couple different edges on a couple different JNATs and had a hell of a great couple dinner prep sessions at home. The edges wore nicely and were easy to bring back via quick strop or sweeps on the stones.

I would love to have a knife like this. Maybe the WH would be more justifiable since I imagine it to be even more distinctly different. I found it to be an outstanding experience overall but I could not justify $1k+ for one of these. My thoughts only apply to my experience in my kitchen and my case of usage. While I might have a tiny problem with accumulating knives and stones, I use everything I own as often as possible. No drawer or safe queens. No NIB or BNIB knife has survived 24hrs in my custody; I can’t bring myself to buy something and not use it. In the case of a collector, I think I can understand having a knife like this for a very high price, because they’re unique and rare. There’s no doubt this is a knife of a very special class from a very special maker. 

Here are pics of the knife’s condition as it was packed and shipped on Monday. I polished the patina with some Simichrome and touched up the edge on a Narutaki just before I snapped these pics and taped up the box.


----------



## McMan

The Kato has landed!
First impressions: This thing is great to open paint cans with!


----------



## labor of love

McMan said:


> The Kato has landed!
> First impressions: This thing is great to open paint cans with!


Do you know whether or not a cutting board is necessary with this knife? Or can I use it on my bare countertop?


----------



## CiderBear

labor of love said:


> Do you know whether or not a cutting board is necessary with this knife? Or can I use it on my bare countertop?



Should I put it in the top or bottom rack of my dishwasher?


----------



## M1k3

CiderBear said:


> Should I put it in the top or bottom rack of my dishwasher?



One of the silverware pockets. Preferably loaded with other metal utensils.


----------



## McMan

labor of love said:


> Do you know whether or not a cutting board is necessary with this knife? Or can I use it on my bare countertop?


@SilverSwarfer sent it with a refined edge. So it'd eat through laminate. You'll be fine if you have stone countertops. 
I've just been cutting on plates.



CiderBear said:


> Should I put it in the top or bottom rack of my dishwasher?


Top rack?! That's for dainty plastics. This thing is beefy. Bottom rack.


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> Do you know whether or not a cutting board is necessary with this knife? Or can I use it on my bare countertop?



If they are granite countertops, you can cut directly on them.


----------



## M1k3

I hope you are using glass or ceramic plates.


----------



## M1k3

Jville said:


> If they are granite countertops, you can cut directly on them.



What about marble?


----------



## labor of love

You see, this is why I love passaround knives!


----------



## CiderBear

labor of love said:


> You see, this is why I love passaround knives!



Passaround knives, also known as "knives to beat the **** out of" 

@tgfencer is frantically looking up rules on how to recall a shipment passing through the USPS system.


----------



## McMan

CiderBear said:


> Passaround knives, also known as "knives to beat the **** out of"
> 
> @tgfencer is frantically looking up rules on how to recall a shipment passing through the USPS system.


I'd be curious to see... The knife arrived in wonderful condition. Of course, I'm at the front- not the tail-end of the PA.
Maybe people might go a little easier on this PA because it is going to be raffled at the end and could be theirs? Or I could be entirely wrong.


----------



## CiderBear

McMan said:


> I'd be curious to see... The knife arrived in wonderful condition. Of course, I'm at the front- not the tail-end of the PA.
> Maybe people might go a little easier on this PA because it is going to be raffled at the end and could be theirs? Or I could be entirely wrong.



I've done a couple of mini passarounds with a few selected group here, and my knives came back in better conditions tbh


----------



## tgfencer

CiderBear said:


> Passaround knives, also known as "knives to beat the **** out of"
> 
> @tgfencer is frantically looking up rules on how to recall a shipment passing through the USPS system.



All part of the process, haha. Honestly if anyone seriously damaged it I’d be impressed. The only commonly fragile part of these knives is often the last 3-5mm of the tip. Like seriously fragile. (Remember that when packing for shipping or washing it in the sink!)

I’m looking forward to reading everyone’s opinions. I realize the price tag debate is unavoidable (perhaps even the compelling reason some folks signed up), but I also hope folks are able to look past that and just use and enjoy the knife itself and assess it as the simple tool it is.


----------



## M1k3

CiderBear said:


> Passaround knives, also known as "knives to beat the **** out of"



Or "can openers", "screwdrivers", "juggling props" and my favorite "makeshift door opener".


----------



## CiderBear

tgfencer said:


> All part of the process, haha. Honestly if anyone seriously damaged it I’d be impressed. The only commonly fragile part of these knives is often the last 3-5mm of the tip. Like seriously fragile. (Remember that when packing for shipping or washing it in the sink!)
> 
> I’m looking forward to reading everyone’s opinions. I realize the price tag debate is unavoidable (perhaps even the compelling reason some folks signed up), but I also hope folks are able to look past that and just use and enjoy the knife itself and assess it as the simple tool it is.


For some reasons, I don't expect a price tag debate with this knife. Unlike you-know-what
1) It didn't start at 700 years ago. 
2) it's only 1.1k+ on the secondary market.
3) if you're knife got listed at 700 on the secondary market, it would sell in seconds.

Also, i hope you understood that I was making a joke about beating the crap out of the knife. I'm too weak for that.


----------



## panda

CiderBear said:


> Should I put it in the top or bottom rack of my dishwasher?


just let it fall from the top and get stuck in the middle


----------



## McMan

Just the facts, ma’am:

231mm edge length
50mm tall
221g

Spine thickness:
5.5mm at the handle
5mm above the heel
2.5mm midway
1.75mm from tip

This was a lot of fun. I try not to hang on to knives too long in Passarounds. So, my time with this Kato was a short but meaningful one-night stand.

I think the knife is more specific than it looks. It shines in shorter (carrots) or softer (onions) product. Tall product (apples) shows wedging and even a little steering, as to be expected with the stout grind. I didn’t try in hard product. (I think perhaps the question is what's best suited for this knife, not the other way around.) I didn’t sharpen it--it arrived with a nice edge--and so can’t comment on steel. What I can say is the cladding's reactive. I hit it with some Flitz before packing. I plan to get the knife off to @GorillaGrunt in the next few days.

Balance is really nice. Grind matters, but I'm not sure the knife operates strictly due to grind. I think the blade weight certainly factors in, plus the balance affects the cutting feel, plus the relatively low height. In other words, I think there’s a confluence of variables (or, rather, decisions) that make it a fun knife to use. It ain’t just the grind.

I think I’ll leave it at that. It's hard to add much to a review as thoughtful as @SilverSwarfer. He put it so well: “The knife is unique but not revolutionary.” So true.

I feel fortunate to have been able to try this knife. I would like to thank the Academy for giving a boy-man with a dream a shot. I would like to thank my agent... Seriously, BIG thanks to @tgfencer for organizing this. Frankly, this passaround is the only way I would have been able to try a Kato 240mm standard.

I’ve heard PA’s like this were more common before my time here, and I can only hope that that these sorts of PAs coming back again. There seems to be some evidence that this is the case... This one was a great idea, and @thebradleycrew with the CJA, and @Barmoley with the z-wear HSCIII... It's very cool to see folks letting others try very good knives.


----------



## labor of love

Believe it or not there actually was a kato passaround 8 years ago.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/you-asked-you-whined-now-here-it-is-kato-passaround.9047/
Opinions were all over the place.


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Believe it or not there actually was a kato passaround 8 years ago.
> https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/you-asked-you-whined-now-here-it-is-kato-passaround.9047/
> Opinions were all over the place.


"please insure for $600" Ah how quaint.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

I’ve had it for a day and a half so far. It’s definitely a hell of a knife; the question I’m trying to answer is, “Is there anything unique about a Kato?” I’ve tested it on potatoes, fat carrots, and onions so far against a Heiji, Shigehiro, Togashi, Martell, Mizuno KS, Ginga #6 cleaver, Raquin, TF Mab, and my answer is ... maybe. Food release, i.e. not sticking while not sending slices flying either, is the best except for the cleaver. Silent slicing is definitely top couple, though the Raquin beats it out. Interestingly enough Kato’s performance is matched, and its envelope of parameter balance is most closely paralleled by, Martell although the shape is completely different. TF is next closest and feels much more similar, and I’m not going to say mine wouldn’t benefit from some thinning. I’d class this as an excellent general purpose knife (of which I’d held up Martell as the best out of my kit) above all the others mentioned.

So far I still haven’t made up my mind about acquiring one of these. Using it has made me decide to get a Mazaki gyuto and want to try a WH though; the WH profile might be even more suited to my use. More to come!


----------



## mengosmoothie

I just want to say that refreshing this PA thread has been the highlight of my week, and given me more FOMO than staying home for coronavirus. 
Thanks for organizing @tgfencer


----------



## Corradobrit1

mengosmoothie said:


> I just want to say that refreshing this PA thread has been the highlight of my week, and given me more FOMO than staying home for coronavirus.
> Thanks for organizing @tgfencer


I have several Katos and I'm still fascinated to hear peoples opinions as we all have different points of reference.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Sent it off a few days ago. Still don’t know if or when I want one of my own. The question I’m now asking myself is: Would I balk at the usual price if I didn’t know that they can sometimes be had for less? It does outperform most knives in most tasks.

Sharpenability and edge retention are both superb. It’s hard to compare directly because I didn’t use it at work just in case, only cooked a few meals at home. But I’d say that among white steels Kato beats out the well regarded Munetoshi and Mazaki and is at least the equal of TF. Just a few strokes on a Nakayama brought it right back to “sharp as crap” (technical measurement). Makes me wonder about the special steel in the workhorse version.


----------



## tgfencer

GorillaGrunt said:


> Sharpenability and edge retention are both superb. It’s hard to compare directly because I didn’t use it at work just in case, only cooked a few meals at home. But I’d say that among white steels Kato beats out the well regarded Munetoshi and Mazaki and is at least the equal of TF. Just a few strokes on a Nakayama brought it right back to “sharp as crap” (technical measurement). Makes me wonder about the special steel in the workhorse version.



Just wanted to add that according to the shop and the receipt, this one is supposedly Blue steel. Take that with whatever grains of salt you want.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Oh no kidding - I know there are some out there, wouldn’t know how to tell. If that’s the case then maybe sharpenability is more impressive than I thought and edge retention less so? Does it even matter?


----------



## Corradobrit1

tgfencer said:


> Just wanted to add that according to the shop and the receipt, this one is supposedly Blue steel. Take that with whatever grains of salt you want.


According to those who are in the know, Kato has been using B#2 exclusively for almost 2 years. Most likely for the JNS WH too. I specifically asked Maksim to comment and never got a response to my inquiry.


----------



## tgfencer

GorillaGrunt said:


> Oh no kidding - I know there are some out there, wouldn’t know how to tell. If that’s the case then maybe sharpenability is more impressive than I thought and edge retention less so? Does it even matter?



Not to me.  Enjoyment is top of my list of deciding factors. 

But to offer my anecdotal observations, I have both WH (one from 2015, one probably older) and standard (white). I can feel the difference in sharpening, but its really pretty minimal unless you’re going through a full progression, where the WH steel takes me a mite longer to sharpen. Both heat treats are excellent as you would expect.


----------



## labor of love

GorillaGrunt said:


> Oh no kidding - I know there are some out there, wouldn’t know how to tell. If that’s the case then maybe sharpenability is more impressive than I thought and edge retention less so? Does it even matter?


You raise a good point here. All the workhorses I’ve sharpened were of an unknown steel to me at the time. Even being familiar with shirogami I thought it was something completely different. And it was for me at the time different feeling from anything I had tried.


----------



## bahamaroot

Knife is safely in my hands, let the games begin!


----------



## Corradobrit1

Just prepped lunch with my 210WH Ku. Such a wonderful blade and a real pleasure every time I pick it up. Looking forward to hearing more reviews. Keep them coming. If you like the std you'll love the Kurouchi. Having both styles of 210WH I can see why the Ku gets the accolades and premium. Its justified imo.


----------



## bahamaroot

The knife is on it's way to @Cloudsmoker. 

What a great knife! A workhorse for sure with excellent balance. Knife was very nimble for its size and weight, it was an absolute joy to use. Knife just fell through soft produce and devoured a head of cabbage. No wedging in the carrots and onion that I diced. I even used it for a slicer too portioning some pork loins for freezing and slicing another that I had cooked. Knife had a great edge on it when I got it and showed little if any wear through the week. I didn't have to put it to the stones to tell the steel was very well done. I gave it a couple passes on a strop and sent it on it's way still extremely sharp. Something magical about these knives when you have it hand, culture, mystic, history, hype, I don't know but it is truly a badass that is a thrill to wield. Deserves all the hype it gets but 1k for ANY knife is hard to swallow but can see shelling it out if you have the cash.


----------



## tgfencer

@bahamaroot Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for posting your thoughts.


----------



## bahamaroot

tgfencer said:


> @bahamaroot Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for posting your thoughts.


And I forgot to add...

Thank you very much Todd for letting me participate and this is a very generous thing you're doing hear!


----------



## Ryndunk

Sorry for the delayed post. Had the chance to put it through a couple days work at the restaurant. This is one of those blades you know is special as soon as you lay your eyes on it. Then you put it on the board and it only gets better. It simply never disappoints. The best all around knife I've used. Fly's right through hard produce, has good food release, and is a really good protein knife. Trimmed up a few top rounds flawlessly, also sliced a few pork loin, and cubed up some pork shoulder. 2 full days of work and it was the only knife I picked up. Then sharpened up beautifully before I packed it up to send it on to @bahamaroot. 
I never understood the fascination with these until now. @tgfencer, thanks for doing this passaround. It a great opportunity to get one of these blade dirty for a little bit. Thanks for including me.


----------



## bahamaroot

The knife looked new when I got it Ryan. You cleaned it up nicely and the edge you put on it was great!


----------



## Ryndunk

bahamaroot said:


> The knife looked new when I got it Ryan. You cleaned it up nicely and the edge you put on it was great!


Thanks. Knife was sharp an shiny when I got it, figured I should send it in the same condition.


----------



## Corradobrit1




----------



## tgfencer

@Corradobrit1 It's currently with Cloudsmoker. There was a minor shipping delay getting it to him, but it arrived last week I believe so things should be moving along smoothly now.


----------



## Cloudsmoker

Loved the knife. For me, the weight and the balance was perfect, so much so that it felt much more nimble than its weight would suggest. Simple, elegant and wonderfully functional. Thanks for the opportunity to check it out.

Heading to Cool Charlie.


----------



## labor of love

Kato has arrived, along w Kagekiyo.














Really hoping I don’t like Kato, I really can’t afford these knives


----------



## valgard




----------



## Cool_charlie

Ditto on the weight and balance. 4 Days in a pro kitchen and it went through everything. Only issues were some big carrots, a little cracking but that was to be expected. Now to see what I can sell to get one.


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Kato has arrived, along w Kagekiyo.View attachment 80971
> View attachment 80972
> View attachment 80973
> View attachment 80974
> 
> 
> Really hoping I don’t like Kato, I really can’t afford these knives


Good luck with that


----------



## ian

I miss the days before this thread when everyone would just crap on Katos while others would buy them for crazy prices on BST. It was so good to feel superior, knowing that I wouldn’t pay that much for a badly performing collector‘s knife. This thread is ruining everything.


----------



## Corradobrit1

ian said:


> I miss the days before this thread when everyone would just crap on Katos while others would buy them for crazy prices on BST. It was so good to feel superior, knowing that I wouldn’t pay that much for a badly performing collector‘s knife. This thread is ruining everything.


Haha the only thing that hurts for me, was joining the party late. Prices were on the way up when I got into JKnives back in 2015. I scoffed at the $800 that was being asked saying to myself, no knife is that good. By the time I came to my senses prices had almost doubled. Profiles and grinds have changed over the years and I'm less enamored by some I see just because I know they don't suit my cutting style. The benefit of experience I guess.


----------



## Wdestate

You shouldn't feel bad with that mind set you should feel superior knowing you wouldn't pay that much for a GOOD performing collectors knife., just because they are good knives docent mean they are worth the price tag these days. 



ian said:


> I miss the days before this thread when everyone would just crap on Katos while others would buy them for crazy prices on BST. It was so good to feel superior, knowing that I wouldn’t pay that much for a badly performing collector‘s knife. This thread is ruining everything.


----------



## ian

Wdestate said:


> You shouldn't feel bad with that mind set you should feel superior knowing you wouldn't pay that much for a GOOD performing collectors knife., just because they are good knives docent mean they are worth the price tag these days.




Good point. I will decide to believe that all the good, surprised reviews here more like “wow, it’s not a piece of ****”, rather than “wow, it’s twice as good as my favorite $500 knife”.


----------



## milkbaby

To be honest, Kato knife's Kanji is like wrriten by a 5 year old kid.


I know most of people here are not Asian, and because no one mentioned here before, I just wanna point out that Kato knife's kanji is so ugly that makes me laugh when I first saw his knife. And take a look of other knives, like shigefusa(重房）， Yoshikazu Ikeda's brand...



www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## Barmoley

ian said:


> Good point. I will decide to believe that all the good, surprised reviews here more like “wow, it’s not a piece of ****”, rather than “wow, it’s twice as good as my favorite $500 knife”.


They have to be good to a certain degree to become popular and for the prices to go as high as they did... whether they are worth the price is very personal but enough people seem to think so for the prices to stay where they are. It is most likely not twice as good as your favorite $500 knife, it just doesn't work this way. I am wondering how it compares to Marko workhorse that is somewhat similar. Marko is very good in my opinion.


----------



## tgfencer

Barmoley said:


> They have to be good to a certain degree to become popular and for the prices to go as high as they did... whether they are worth the price is very personal but enough people seem to think so for the prices to stay where they are. It is most likely not twice as good as your favorite $500 knife, it just doesn't work this way. I am wondering how it compares to Marko workhorse that is somewhat similar. Marko is very good in my opinion.



I have a Marko WH 270 and obviously several Kato, including the one on the passaround. The Marko WH are obviously related in design, or rather inspired by, but they are slightly less extreme. My example has less taper, thinner overall spine, thinner grind (less meat aka steel in the upper part of the grind). Thinness behind the edge is roughly comparable though. 

Neither is better or worse than the other, but if I was going to suggest one to someone whose knife preferences I didn't know well, I'd definitely suggest the Marko WH. I suspect more people across a broader spectrum would like the Marko than would like the Kato. The Marko WH is simply a less polarizing knife in design, execution, price, fit and finish, and availability. By that same reasoning, however, it is perhaps slightly less unique. 

(FYI, I love both my Marko and my Katos. If I was to use one regularly in a pro-environment it would absolutely be my Marko WH.)


----------



## Nagakin

milkbaby said:


> To be honest, Kato knife's Kanji is like wrriten by a 5 year old kid.
> 
> 
> I know most of people here are not Asian, and because no one mentioned here before, I just wanna point out that Kato knife's kanji is so ugly that makes me laugh when I first saw his knife. And take a look of other knives, like shigefusa(重房）， Yoshikazu Ikeda's brand...
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com


This was basically every thread when I looked into entering the katana world. Then I decided I'll just buy the subjectively prettiest one closer to retirement and not tell anybody.


----------



## labor of love

I’ll have Kato in the mail a week from today. Ootb impressions: pretty knife, really great roomy handle, killer distal taper, standard Kato profile is sweet.
I’ll likely compare cutting performance of the Kato to Kagekiyo as it’s also my new toy.
Too early to really say much but I preferred kagekiyo for the brussel sprouts I had for dinner last night. But that should be obvious.


----------



## tgfencer

labor of love said:


> I’ll have Kato in the mail a week from today. Ootb impressions: pretty knife, really great roomy handle, killer distal taper, standard Kato profile is sweet.
> I’ll likely compare cutting performance of the Kato to Kagekiyo as it’s also my new toy.
> Too early to really say much but I preferred kagekiyo for the brussel sprouts I had for dinner last night. But that should be obvious.



Very different knives. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.


----------



## lemeneid

ian said:


> I miss the days before this thread when everyone would just crap on Katos while others would buy them for crazy prices on BST. It was so good to feel superior, knowing that I wouldn’t pay that much for a badly performing collector‘s knife. This thread is ruining everything.


Shigs cut like axes, yet they sell for thousands. Anything above 4 digits now you’re going into the realm of collectibles.

Not sh1tting on Shigs, they’re beautiful knives just not my cup of tea, for the amount of time you’ll need to spend to make them good cutters.


----------



## valgard

lemeneid said:


> Shigs cut like axes, yet they sell for thousands. Anything above 4 digits now you’re going into the realm of collectibles.
> 
> Not sh1tting on Shigs, they’re beautiful knives just not my cup of tea, for the amount of time you’ll need to spend to make them good cutters.


That's not an entirely informed nugget. I have had at least 4 Shigs now that are good cutters out of the box. Will on the other hand gladly mention that other 5 have not been remotely good cutters out of the box, but the sticking point is that they're all very evenly ground and super easy to work on.


----------



## labor of love

I’m a reformed shig hater turned shig lover. Just gotta find the right one that works for you.


----------



## Barmoley

I am at 50/50 one was good one not so much. At the prices they are they should all be good, my opinion only. I get that price is more than just performance, but I expect performance when you pay this much.


----------



## lemeneid

valgard said:


> That's not an entirely informed nugget. I have had at least 4 Shigs now that are good cutters out of the box. Will on the other hand gladly mention that other 5 have not been remotely good cutters out of the box, but the sticking point is that they're all very evenly ground and super easy to work on.


You’ve definitely used your fair share of Shigs, and my sample size isn’t as great. Of the 3 I borrowed, 2 BNIB and one used, they felt very “normal” and nothing amazing. They definitely are very well ground and evenly finished and would easily be thinned and become great knives.

Also, what I’ve heard is western shigs tend to be better performing, would definitely love to locate this unicorn so I can finally try a good one. Then again, I’m definitely western handle biased


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> I’m a reformed shig hater turned shig lover. Just gotta find the right one that works for you.


Which at the prices they are now, will cost about $10k on the low side to find, unless you get lucky.


----------



## labor of love

M1k3 said:


> Which at the prices they are now, will cost about $10k on the low side to find, unless you get lucky.


Mine was a used 270mm(but tuned up by Murray carter). Purchased for $840? I think?


----------



## lemeneid

labor of love said:


> Mine was a used 270mm(but tuned up by Murray carter). Purchased for $840? I think?


That’s great value for a 270 imo, even if it were used.


----------



## Barmoley

lemeneid said:


> That’s great value for a 270 imo, even if it were used.


But it was tuned by one of the best. Buying a knife this expensive and having to tune it is nuts.


----------



## panda

Barmoley said:


> But it was tuned by one of the best. Buying a knife this expensive and having to tune it is nuts.


the knife originally is not that expensive though.


----------



## valgard

lemeneid said:


> You’ve definitely used your fair share of Shigs, and my sample size isn’t as great. Of the 3 I borrowed, 2 BNIB and one used, they felt very “normal” and nothing amazing. They definitely are very well ground and evenly finished and would easily be thinned and become great knives.
> 
> Also, what I’ve heard is western shigs tend to be better performing, would definitely love to locate this unicorn so I can finally try a good one. Then again, I’m definitely western handle biased


The WA kitaeji 270 aboynamedsuita had on best recently is one of the best cutting ones I have used if not the best one. Funny we bounced that knife between the two of us a couple times and he's keeping it now I think. But yeah, the 270 yo kitaeji I have is giving it a run for its money, the other two good ones were 180 and a 210 yo kitaeji. The 180 nakiri I have a very good too, but I cleaned it up a bit right out of the box.


----------



## captaincaed

My question is, how the heck do you maintain these knives over time? If the cutting ability relies so much on that professionally-executed grind, what happens after a couple years of sharpening?
I know that you can thin a knife, but does it preserve the subtlety of the knife?


----------



## Luftmensch

ian said:


> I miss the days before this thread when everyone would just crap on Katos while others would buy them for crazy prices on BST. It was so good to feel superior, knowing that I wouldn’t pay that much for a badly performing collector‘s knife. This thread is ruining everything.



I don't know why they are so popular? They have a ****** garden tool finish... The kanji looks like it was hammed in by a child.... they cut no better than a $10 bargain-bin special... Seriously... the emperor has new clothes. Avoid...



Did that help?

The coolest thing about this thread (and the super generous opportunity from @tgfencer ), is that it gives people an opportunity to see what the 'hype' is all about! From there they can make a subjective _value_ judgement on whether the _price_ is worth it to _them_.





Barmoley said:


> Buying a knife this expensive and having to tune it is nuts.



I see your point. I am mixed.

True - there are so many blacksmiths out there. You can play musical chairs until you find the one who makes everything just the way _you_ like it.

An alternative view is that the primary thing the blacksmith does (that most cant) is forge and heat-treat the metal. With a little bit of work you can change aspects of the grind and profile to suit your preferences more. After all... we all have different preferences right? If a knife has a brilliant heat-treat, superb finish (again personal preference) and great sharpness 'out-the-box' it is an excellent knife. From there you can make it your own...


----------



## valgard

captaincaed said:


> My question is, how the heck do you maintain these knives over time? If the cutting ability relies so much on that professionally-executed grind, what happens after a couple years of sharpening?
> I know that you can thin a knife, but does it preserve the subtlety of the knife?


Maintenance is very much doable on stones as long as you respect and follow the grind. Requires some modicum of skill and paying attention to what you're doing but they are convex and can be maintained on stones unlike some more complicated grinds.


----------



## labor of love

Whoever put the edge on this kato did a great job. Kinda curious what stone was used.
Kato is quickly winning me over. Might have to track one down. This specimen is lighter and thinner blade than the older ones I used. Still same grind and everything. Still a workhorse and still cuts with authority. Just feels so smooth when the blade is going through food.
Gotta few more things to test. But I’m enjoying it quite a bit.

I tried not to like it. But I have failed.


----------



## tgfencer

labor of love said:


> Whoever put the edge on this kato did a great job. Kinda curious what stone was used.
> Kato is quickly winning me over. Might have to track one down. This specimen is lighter and thinner blade than the older ones I used. Still same grind and everything. Still a workhorse and still cuts with authority. Just feels so smooth when the blade is going through food.
> Gotta few more things to test. But I’m enjoying it quite a bit.
> 
> I tried not to like it. But I have failed.



@SilverSwarfer put the original edge on it. Not sure who else has touched it up in between, but I’m sure unless it’s gone through a full progression since, most of the base work was his.


----------



## Cool_charlie

labor of love said:


> Whoever put the edge on this kato did a great job. Kinda curious what stone was used.
> Kato is quickly winning me over. Might have to track one down. This specimen is lighter and thinner blade than the older ones I used. Still same grind and everything. Still a workhorse and still cuts with authority. Just feels so smooth when the blade is going through food.
> Gotta few more things to test. But I’m enjoying it quite a bit.
> 
> I tried not to like it. But I have failed.


I gave it a couple passes on an Aizu before I shipped it off.


----------



## labor of love

Cool_charlie said:


> I gave it a couple passes on an Aizu before I shipped it off.


As will I.
@CiderBear i think you’re next, correct?


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> Whoever put the edge on this kato did a great job. Kinda curious what stone was used.
> Kato is quickly winning me over. Might have to track one down. This specimen is lighter and thinner blade than the older ones I used. Still same grind and everything. Still a workhorse and still cuts with authority. Just feels so smooth when the blade is going through food.
> Gotta few more things to test. But I’m enjoying it quite a bit.
> 
> I tried not to like it. But I have failed.


and the profile doesnt look stupid like the jns workhorses


----------



## lemeneid

panda said:


> and the profile doesnt look stupid like the jns workhorses


Nothing wrong with the workhorses, I actually prefer them to the standard in terms of performance.


----------



## Corradobrit1

panda said:


> and the profile doesnt look stupid like the jns workhorses


I would agree for the 240. But my 210WH STD and Ku have a great profile. Much less belly in the tip area which suits me.

I just received a couple of new stones from Japan and achieving a super sharp toothy edge is effortless. Not as durable as Denka but so easy to maintain with a quick strop.


----------



## Luftmensch

labor of love said:


> This specimen is lighter and thinner blade than the older ones I used. Still same grind and everything. Still a workhorse and still cuts with authority. Just feels so smooth when the blade is going through food.
> Gotta few more things to test. But I’m enjoying it quite a bit.



Glad to hear you are enjoying it! Thanks for posting your thoughts.

Can you remember whether the older ones you used were Kato-Standards or Kato-JNS-Workhorses? I am curious how hefty the workhorse grinds are given that Kato standards are already heavy knives...


----------



## labor of love

Yeah my kato experience so far was 3 JNS workhorses circa 2012-2014.


----------



## Luftmensch

labor of love said:


> Yeah my kato experience so far was 3 JNS workhorses circa 2012-2014.



Thanks man!

Maybe they take a good thing too far? 

I like tall knives. I wouldn't mind the taller height (I think the workhorses include that). But the standards already have a wicked distal taper. I don't think I'd like to see the spine thicken or be fatter in the middle


----------



## danemonji

Luftmensch said:


> Thanks man!
> 
> Maybe they take a good thing too far?
> 
> I like tall knives. I wouldn't mind the taller height (I think the workhorses include that). But the standards already have a wicked distal taper. I don't think I'd like to see the spin thicken or be fatter in the middle


Same wicked distal taper is in the wh versions from last year or so. The first 240 wh i bought from jns last year is 245mm long 54 mm high and weight is 236g. Other than the profile with a bit more raised tip, it looks just like an oversized and light standard. On the other hand my second 240 wh has the same length and height but at 260g feels like a different beast.
Some variations are also with KU versions some feel more beefy others more light and nimble. To be honest I find the KU a different and better knife overall: profile ( much more aggressive and pointier), grind( much sharper with no secondary bevel and a bitty feel - these are the sharpest knives I've ever felt), maintainability ( it has an even blade road so you can sharp and thin it on stones and it won't change the scratch pattern like crap and be forced to send it for a proffessional service), overall look after multiple uses ( patina just looks like a shadier kasumi on the blade road after you oil it).


----------



## valgard

Luftmensch said:


> Glad to hear you are enjoying it! Thanks for posting your thoughts.
> 
> Can you remember whether the older ones you used were Kato-Standards or Kato-JNS-Workhorses? I am curious how hefty the workhorse grinds are given that Kato standards are already heavy knives...


Both models have gotten lighter in general. I have tried a few, and while there's always been variance, the average seems to have dropped weight significantly in the last two years or so.


----------



## CiderBear

labor of love said:


> As will I.
> @CiderBear i think you’re next, correct?




Is it my turn already? I haven't been paying attention, but nice! 

@tgfencer how does this work? I'm currently living in temporary housing in Northern Virginia with my fiancé about 10 minutes away from my apartment in DC - should I give you the new address?


----------



## tgfencer

@CiderBear- @labor of love will shoot you a PM when he's ready to ship and ask for an address. You can use whichever is most convenient for you and where you think delivery would go the smoothest. 

Then after a week of use, you just reach out to the next person in line for their shipping address. Simple and easy.


----------



## panda

CiderBear said:


> Is it my turn already? I haven't been paying attention, but nice!
> 
> @tgfencer how does this work? I'm currently living in temporary housing in Northern Virginia with my fiancé about 10 minutes away from my apartment in DC - should I give you the new address?


Kato carrots video should be fun


----------



## Corradobrit1

valgard said:


> Both models have gotten lighter in general. I have tried a few, and while there's always been variance, the average seems to have dropped weight significantly in the last two years or so.


Both the STD and WH have changed weight, profile and grind over the years, plus the steel has changed too (not confirmed on the WH but likely). I prefer the more dramatic and progressive DT of the older style Kato's with their thinner tip grind. The Ku seems to be more consistent over the years although there are fewer examples so less reference points. The current JNS 210WH Ku at just over 200g and 217 edge length and low tip is just about perfect for me, although if I was to nit pick I'd prefer an even thinner tip.


----------



## valgard

Corradobrit1 said:


> Both the STD and WH have changed weight, profile and grind over the years, plus the steel has changed too (not confirmed on the WH but likely). I prefer the more dramatic and progressive DT of the older style Kato's with their thinner tip grind. The Ku seems to be more consistent over the years although there are fewer examples so less reference points. The current JNS 210WH Ku at just over 200g and 217 edge length and low tip is just about perfect for me, although if I was to nit pick I'd prefer an even thinner tip.


My older KU was also significantly thicker than the one I got about two years ago, and I have compared notes with some friends and those have also been thinner. Big change in the STD KU profile at least too with my older one having a lower tip and the curve going all the way but very very gentle. My older 240 KU std is 233mm long heel to tip and 255g (with a ho wood handle)


----------



## tgfencer

Sounds like maybe somebody needs to do a spreadsheet or pivot table or something...


----------



## SilverSwarfer

tgfencer said:


> Sounds like maybe somebody needs to do a spreadsheet or pivot table or something...


I’d be keen to know what Kato-San would think of all this!

It would be an awesome conversation, to know how he would respond to thoughts about the evolution in shape/taper/weight/etc over the years, would fascinate me to no end. A common presumption is that craftsmen’s skills gain traction through the years.


----------



## Corradobrit1

SilverSwarfer said:


> I’d be keen to know what Kato-San would think of all this!
> 
> It would be an awesome conversation, to know how he would respond to thoughts about the evolution in shape/taper/weight/etc over the years, would fascinate me to no end. A common presumption is that craftsmen’s skills gain traction through the years.


Yes, that would be a fascinating conversation to have with KK, especially at this stage in his life/career. I wonder how he feels about this being the end of the Kato knife/swordmaking lineage, at least direct. I believe an uncle was also a bladesmith.


----------



## Luftmensch

@danemonji, @valgard, @Corradobrit1 

Thanks for the observations! Appreciated 

I wonder what caused the evolution in design... feedback from users perhaps? It certainly would be very fascinating to hear Kato-san's reflections.


----------



## labor of love

In a fashion like that of Prometheus, Mazaki will carry the torch.


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> In a fashion like that of Prometheus, Mazaki will carry the torch.


Then he better up his Dammy game and charge less.


----------



## labor of love

Wait, Mazaki makes Damascus? Why didn’t someone mention this?


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Wait, Mazaki makes Damascus? Why didn’t someone mention this?


Nope, he makes suminagashi. The young Grasshopper still has much to learn from the Sensei


----------



## danemonji

labor of love said:


> In a fashion like that of Prometheus, Mazaki will carry the torch.


Mazaki will try to leach on to the Kato prestige. But just because they crossed hammers for publicity sake, that doesn't make him his apprentice. An apprentice in Japan is someone that lives and breaths together with the master for 20 years or more and helps in every aspect of the trade. They start making their own work after they have earned their place. Mazaki is more sanjo style then kato style and you can see that in the way the blade road runs with wide bevel towards the tip ( since it's easier to grind on sand belt than thin it from the hammer). I know most knife dealers want to promote mazaki as the continuity of Kato but he doesn't have the same motivation to be the best. Kato was raised in a familly of sword makers and was apprentice for both his father and grandfather and the weight of his familly honnor and reputation made him strive to keep that familly good name. I may be wrong but mazaki seems to be going for the money instead.


----------



## labor of love

danemonji said:


> Mazaki will try to leach on to the Kato prestige. But just because they crossed hammers for publicity sake, that doesn't make him his apprentice. An apprentice in Japan is someone that lives and breaths together with the master for 20 years or more and helps in every aspect of the trade. They start making their own work after they have earned their place. Mazaki is more sanjo style then kato style and you can see that in the way the blade road runs with wide bevel towards the tip ( since it's easier to grind on sand belt than thin it from the hammer). I know most knife dealers want to promote mazaki as the continuity of Kato but he doesn't have the same motivation to be the best. Kato was rased in a familly of sword makers and was apprentice for both his father and grandfather and the weight of his familly honnor and reputation made him strive to keep that familly good name. I may be wrong but mazaki seems to be going for the money instead.


----------



## ma_sha1

I only had two Mazaki & one Kato, from those three, there’s quite a bit of resemblance on measurements. The Mazakis were more beefy WH than the Kato WH, but the Kato grind we’re completely missing. Seems like he only copied the shell bit not the the soul. 

Another funny thing was, my Kato 210 WH weighted only 180g, More of a middle weight than WH, my Toyama iron-clad 210, comes in at 185g. The Kato WH did perform very very well thou., right up there with my Toyama which is really hard to beat.


----------



## Cloudsmoker

Can somebody teach me about Kato? In addition to Kiyoshi Kato, there are several, if not many, knife makers with the Kato name. I picked up an AS 210mm gyuto from Carbon Knife (that I really enjoy) made by Yoshimi Kato, who is listed as the son of Hiroshi Kato. I thought there were more examples, but some of those may be misspellings. Any Kato followers willing to set this straight?


----------



## lemeneid

Cloudsmoker said:


> Can somebody teach me about Kato? In addition to Kiyoshi Kato, there are several, if not many, knife makers with the Kato name. I picked up an AS 210mm gyuto from Carbon Knife (that I really enjoy) made by Yoshimi Kato, who is listed as the son of Hiroshi Kato. I thought there were more examples, but some of those may be misspellings. Any Kato followers willing to set this straight?


Yoshimi and Hiroshi are different Katos. The Katos we are talking about here is Kiyoshi Kato and his father Shinpei. Don't know of any other knifemaking Katos around.


----------



## labor of love

Bought a workhorse yesterday. Woke up today and bought another one. Will my bank account ever recover?


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> Bought a workhorse yesterday. Woke up today and bought another one. Will my bank account ever recover?


If you flip them at the right time, yes.
GLWS


----------



## lemeneid

labor of love said:


> Bought a workhorse yesterday. Woke up today and bought another one. Will my bank account ever recover?


Yesterday workhorse, today standard, tomorrow Dammy???


----------



## labor of love

Well I bought a used workhorse yesterday, then today I actually won the jns sweepstakes. Funny timing. Btw workhorse retails for $1060 now. Maybe that’s why it fell into my lap. Perhaps people are less trigger happy at that price?


----------



## ma_sha1

Is it the 240 price?


----------



## labor of love

Yes


----------



## Luftmensch

labor of love said:


> Well I bought a used workhorse yesterday, then today I actually won the jns sweepstakes. Funny timing. Btw workhorse retails for $1060 now. Maybe that’s why it fell into my lap. Perhaps people are less trigger happy at that price?



Nice! Enjoy!


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Well I bought a used workhorse yesterday, then today I actually won the jns sweepstakes. Funny timing. Btw workhorse retails for $1060 now. Maybe that’s why it fell into my lap. Perhaps people are less trigger happy at that price?


Hoarder


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> Hoarder


----------



## soigne_west

labor of love said:


> Bought a workhorse yesterday. Woke up today and bought another one. Will my bank account ever recover?



This is probably the best review in the thread!


----------



## Robert Lavacca

This has been a great read so far. I think the last couple times I saw any kato come up on JNS I was very hesitant. Even the most recent 240. I really had to tell myself to just put the phone down and walk away haha. Times are just too uncertain right now. Especially for the culinary industry. I had a ton of side jobs cut from me and our kitchen has been shut down for almost 2 months now. Even though i’m not in a position to drop 1k on a kato it’s still awesome hearing the most recent feedback!


----------



## labor of love

Knife is off to @CiderBear.
Thanks again for letting me participate.


----------



## captaincaed

I like cider bears videos. Hope there's a maumasi chop-off...


----------



## CiderBear

Just FYI there won't be any videos. I don't have most of my stuff with me.


----------



## Luftmensch

CiderBear said:


> Just FYI there won't be any videos. I don't have most of my stuff with me.



Thats fair enough. But be warned... if you like it, the standard to beat is _two_ Katos...


----------



## M1k3

Luftmensch said:


> Thats fair enough. But be warned... if you like it, the standard to beat is _two_ Katos...


I guess it could be beat with 2 BNIB ones since he got one used. Just saying..


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Knife is off to @CiderBear.
> Thanks again for letting me participate.


Shoulda waited to do a comparo with the WH's. Shootout at the OK Carrot....
There'll carrot juice everywhere....


----------



## danemonji

It is very interesting to see the positive feedback and how hearts can change when there's a general consensus about something and I guess that this is how hype builds up.
I own quite a bunch of Kato knives from 240 wh's to several 240 ku to several types and sizes of nakiris. You could say I have grown fond of the simple and rustic feel of this smith. But lately i have been playing with other knives with more humble origins and price tag and asked myself if it's worth spending a small fortune in buying kato. The munetoshi gyuto and nakiri experience of late ( though not so perfect and aclaimed as a tool) has proved me a snob asuming that a knife worth 150$ must be cheap and not taken for serious. But it was funny that while i was using these humble tools I found the same joy and 99% of the same feel as using a kato. So before writing your reviews, grab your Watanabe or your Kochi, your Kurosaki or Yoshikane, your Wakui or Hinoura, your Shiraki or your Munetoshi or any of the Enchizen or Sakai knives and ask yourself if the Kato cuts 5 times better or 10 times better then the knife you are currently using. Stop thinking about the value and think just about the knives. Common sense will guide you.


----------



## ian

danemonji said:


> ask yourself if the Kato cuts 5 times better or 10 times better then the knife you are currently using.



I’ve heard it’s a logarithmic scale. Double the price, increase the cutting ability by (at most) 1 unit.


----------



## labor of love

danemonji said:


> So before writing your reviews, grab your Watanabe or your Kochi, your Kurosaki or Yoshikane, your Wakui or Hinoura, your Shiraki or your Munetoshi or any of the Enchizen or Sakai knives and ask yourself if the Kato cuts 5 times better or 10 times better then the knife you are currently using. Stop thinking about the value and think just about the knives. Common sense will guide you.


I actually did this. Kagekiyo arrived the same day as Kato. I used them side by side through the week.


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> Shoulda waited to do a comparo with the WH's. Shootout at the OK Carrot....
> There'll carrot juice everywhere....


Yeah I wanted to compare to WH but I can’t slow down the passaround. First one arrives today. Maxim just shipped the second.
Compared to the standard the workhorse I’m getting is 20 grams heavier, but 3mm taller and 16mm longer.


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> I actually did this. Kagekiyo arrived the same day as Kato. I used them side by side through the week.


Isn't the Kagekiyo a wide bevel? Should be quite a different animal


----------



## labor of love

Yeah. Kagekiyo is the complete opposite of Kato. But that’s also kinda the reason I wanted to use them side by side. The shinogi is 27mm tall (a little over half the blade) much much higher than what is normal.


----------



## captaincaed

danemonji said:


> It is very interesting to see the positive feedback and how hearts can change when there's a general consensus about something and I guess that this is how hype builds up.
> I own quite a bunch of Kato knives from 240 wh's to several 240 ku to several types and sizes of nakiris. You could say I have grown fond of the simple and rustic feel of this smith. But lately i have been playing with other knives with more humble origins and price tag and asked myself if it's worth spending a small fortune in buying kato. The munetoshi gyuto and nakiri experience of late ( though not so perfect and aclaimed as a tool) has proved me a snob asuming that a knife worth 150$ must be cheap and not taken for serious. But it was funny that while i was using these humble tools I found the same joy and 99% of the same feel as using a kato. So before writing your reviews, grab your Watanabe or your Kochi, your Kurosaki or Yoshikane, your Wakui or Hinoura, your Shiraki or your Munetoshi or any of the Enchizen or Sakai knives and ask yourself if the Kato cuts 5 times better or 10 times better then the knife you are currently using. Stop thinking about the value and think just about the knives. Common sense will guide you.


I find that my best cutters span the entire price range from $250-$1400. I think under $250 you're hard pressed to find truly good options, but they exist. But a lot of the cost seems to be extra hand labor for extra elegance. A bare bones cutter ain't gonna break the bank.


----------



## ma_sha1

I’ve only kept the very best cutters, all of them are in the $300 range or less now, the more expensive knives all have been sold.

These Bang for the buck keepers all performs on par with the Kato WH that has been sold.

The extra cost on more expensive knives tend to have justifications out side of the realm of performance.


----------



## dafox

ma_sha1 said:


> I’ve only kept the very best cutters, all of them are in the $300 range or less now, the more expensive knives all have been sold.
> 
> These Bang for the buck keepers all performs on par with the Kato WH that has been sold.
> 
> The extra cost on more expensive knives tend to have justifications out side of the realm of performance.


What are some of your keepers?


----------



## ma_sha1

dafox said:


> What are some of your keepers?



Only 5, for the 5 slots in my knife block:
1, Toyama 210 iron clad, Gate Keeper that all incoming knives are being judged by. 
2, TF Maboroshi 210, dedicated meat slicer with the most tenacious edge, breeze through semi frozen meat without ever chipping.
3, Tanaka Sekiso B2 damascus 210 with custom Western handle, cut as well if not better than Toyama but a bit more delicate
4, Kurosaki AS Fujin 180, one of my very first J knive, the beauty queen, cuts quite well with concave bevel, but also a bit delicate. 
5, Vintage Japanese Santoku re-profiled to 6” Gyuto, dedicated chicken disassembler


----------



## lemeneid

ma_sha1 said:


> I’ve only kept the very best cutters, all of them are in the $300 range or less now, the more expensive knives all have been sold.
> 
> These Bang for the buck keepers all performs on par with the Kato WH that has been sold.
> 
> The extra cost on more expensive knives tend to have justifications out side of the realm of performance.


Just curious, what changed your mind? As far as I remembered, you were coveting a Kato for quite a bit, just surprised you do not have one now.


----------



## ma_sha1

lemeneid said:


> Just curious, what changed your mind? As far as I remembered, you were coveting a Kato for quite a bit, just surprised you do not have one now.




You sure it was me?

I did a catch & release of 210 WH, & a quick review, that’s about it. I was positively surprised that it cut as well as Toyama despite appears thicker behind the edge, gave it a few good words. 

I’d take it over Toyama if it was the same cost, but not when it’s but it 3x the cost, tied up too much funds.


----------



## tgfencer

I’ve always thought this forum was too obsessed with price and ‘value’, both good and bad varieties. They’re both such subjective and individual measurements that while I find it interesting on occasion to hear people’s opinions, I rarely read threads revolving around these topics or let them sway me. 

Performance at least is more measurable, even if we all know that for all the parsing and analyzing we do, in the back of our minds we know a non-description simple carbon blade could do all the things we need.


----------



## Corradobrit1

I heard Kato knives are very powerful. That needs to be factored into the equation.


----------



## M1k3

Corradobrit1 said:


> I heard Kato knives were very powerful. That needs to be factored into the equation.


Like Excalibur? Thor's Hammer?


----------



## panda

CiderBear said:


> Just FYI there won't be any videos. I don't have most of my stuff with me.


just use your phone


----------



## CiderBear

Knife got here safely. Thanks so much @tgfencer and @labor of love. I'll use it and type out my thoughts in a couple days


----------



## CiderBear

I used the Kato to make Japanese curry the other day. Perhaps @labor of love and I prefer different sharpness (if he touched the knife up at all), but I think I prefer my knives finished on a higher grit. I'm not confident in my sharpening abilities to strop the knife on a higher grit stone though. 

I like how the knife feels in my hand, the weight and profile seem just right. However, I don't think I would spend anywhere near 1000 USD on it, so I'm really glad I got to try it out. Thanks again for the opportunity @tgfencer 
I'm planning to cook one more meal with it and send it out mid-week next week.


----------



## panda

CiderBear said:


> I used the Kato to make Japanese curry the other day. Perhaps @labor of love and I prefer different sharpness (if he touched the knife up at all), but I think I prefer my knives finished on a higher grit. I'm not confident in my sharpening abilities to strop the knife on a higher grit stone though.
> 
> I like how the knife feels in my hand, the weight and profile seem just right. However, I don't think I would spend anywhere near 1000 USD on it, so I'm really glad I got to try it out. Thanks again for the opportunity @tgfencer
> I'm planning to cook one more meal with it and send it out mid-week next week.


show us your curry!! i only enjoy japanese/korean style curry. not a fan of coconut based versions what so ever.
and what grit do you finish your edges on?


----------



## CiderBear

panda said:


> show us your curry!! i only enjoy japanese/korean style curry. not a fan of coconut based versions what so ever.
> and what grit do you finish your edges on?



Haha, it was just from an Extra Hot Golden Curry box. I put potatoes, carrots, raisins and peas in it. Normally I make it without peas but I thought "eh why not" and it turned out alright. Served it with some chashu pork shoulder on top. I used to throw some beef into Japanese curry, but we had this amazing curry topped with chashu at a spot in Tsukiji fish market a couple years back and I've been doing the same thing since.



As for the knife, it was a very nice knife. I just didn't think I would ever bring myself to spend that amount of money on a knife though. I don't think it'd be fair to compare performance, since my Wat gyuto and the Kato probably were finished at different grits, but somehow I just... enjoyed cutting things with the Wat more, if that makes any sense. Last time I stropped the Wat was on a hard Aiwattani from Bernal, I think.

I only brought 4 knives over to my temp place (Wat 240, Heiji nakiri, Bernal Y Ikeda since it was my newest knife, and Ikazuchi petty because girl needs a glorified steak knife) and I really keep reverting back to the Wat for almost everything now.

Knife is on its way to @Barclid now. Once again, I want to thank @tgfencer and everyone who participated in this in order for the passaround to happen. I appreciate the opportunity to try a knife that I never would have a chance to otherwise, and I'm truly grateful for that.

Finally, curry pic!


----------



## Corradobrit1

CiderBear said:


> Haha, it was just from an Extra Hot Golden Curry box. I put potatoes, carrots, raisins and peas in it. Normally I make it without peas but I thought "eh why not" and it turned out alright. Served it with some chashu pork shoulder on top. I used to throw some beef into Japanese curry, but we had this amazing curry topped with chashu at a spot in Tsukiji fish market a couple years back and I've been doing the same thing since.
> 
> 
> 
> As for the knife, it was a very nice knife. I just didn't think I would ever bring myself to spend that amount of money on a knife though. I don't think it'd be fair to compare performance, since my Wat gyuto and the Kato probably were finished at different grits, but somehow I just... enjoyed cutting things with the Wat more, if that makes any sense. Last time I stropped the Wat was on a hard Aiwattani from Bernal, I think.
> 
> I only brought 4 knives over to my temp place (Wat 240, Heiji nakiri, Bernal Y Ikeda since it was my newest knife, and Ikazuchi petty because girl needs a glorified steak knife) and I really keep reverting back to the Wat for almost everything now.
> 
> Knife is on its way to @Barclid now. Once again, I want to thank @tgfencer and everyone who participated in this in order for the passaround to happen. I appreciate the opportunity to try a knife that I never would have a chance to otherwise, and I'm truly grateful for that.
> 
> Finally, curry pic!


I always add peas and sometimes potato. The raisins are a nice touch, I'll have to give that a try next time. Indians do it all the time. My local Izakaya restaurant serves their curry with Fukujinzuke. Very hard to find even in the specialist Asian stores.


----------



## panda

I'll take a bowl. I do mines with chix thigh or short rib


----------



## Corradobrit1

I like the old school rice steamer.


----------



## panda

@CiderBear I want you to try my big arse denka, especially because it's terrible at cutting carrots.


----------



## Corradobrit1

panda said:


> @CiderBear I want you to try my big arse denka, especially because it's terrible at cutting carrots.


I had one of those but it had been mucked around with, so not its fault.


----------



## bahamaroot

Been awful quiet here for a couple weeks...


----------



## Barclid

@pgugger just picked it up.


----------



## pgugger

On its way to @KCMande... 

I received the knife at the worst possible time while I was moving, so I barely used it. I had ambitions of comparing it to my Toyama and Jiro and writing up my experience, but that didn't happen. From my brief time with it, I can understand why it is highly regarded for its craftsmanship, sturdy build, profile/grind, etc. I thought it felt well balanced and pretty nimble for such a solid knife. However, I did not come away feeling that it was better performing than Toyama, Jiro, or other knives I use often... just different. Honestly, not sure I would pay >$1000, though I'd be happy to own one.

The one mark against it was that it felt a little thick behind the edge, leading to some resistance/wedging on carrots, for example... but maybe that is just from all the sharpening during the passaround? I did not attempt to sharpen, thin, touch up, polish or anything - leaving that to the experts.


----------



## tgfencer

pgugger said:


> On its way to @KCMande...
> 
> I received the knife at the worst possible time while I was moving, so I barely used it. I had ambitions of comparing it to my Toyama and Jiro and writing up my experience, but that didn't happen. From my brief time with it, I can understand why it is highly regarded for its craftsmanship, sturdy build, profile/grind, etc. I thought it felt well balanced and pretty nimble for such a solid knife. However, I did not come away feeling that it was better performing than Toyama, Jiro, or other knives I use often... just different. Honestly, not sure I would pay >$1000, though I'd be happy to own one.
> 
> The one mark against it was that it felt a little thick behind the edge, leading to some resistance/wedging on carrots, for example... but maybe that is just from all the sharpening during the passaround? I did not attempt to sharpen, thin, touch up, polish or anything - leaving that to the experts.



Worth noting that Greg, who had it before you, said it could probably use a thinning. Unfortunately he didn’t have the time. If somebody coming up wants to thin it, shoot me a PM first.


----------



## KCMande

Picked up the knife today.
Didn't get a chance to play with it today. 
Looking forward to putting it to the board in the next few days.


----------



## 420layersofdank

Whoa!!! Can I jump in on this list ?


----------



## bahamaroot

Hellooooo........is there anybody out there!.......


----------



## M1k3

bahamaroot said:


> Hellooooo........is there anybody out there!.......


----------



## KCMande

Knife is currently in my possession, my turn is up, I have reached out to the next person in line multiple times via PM with no response. If I don't hear back from them soon I guess I should skip them in line and ship to the person in line after them? seems fair to everyone correct?


----------



## tgfencer

KCMande said:


> Knife is currently in my possession, my turn is up, I have reached out to the next person in line multiple times via PM with no response. If I don't hear back from them soon I guess I should skip them in line and ship to the person in line after them? seems fair to everyone correct?



Sounds good to me. We can circle back around to them at some point if they resurface.


----------



## tgfencer

@KCMande Any update on this situation?


----------



## Nagakin

tgfencer said:


> @KCMande Any update on this situation?


on it's way to me rn


----------



## KCMande

Sorry for the lack of an update.
The knife is on the way to Nagakin. No response from @jimmy_d had to skip him. so keep him in mind if he pops back Up and wants to claim his turn.

Thanks again for the opportunity to try this thing out
Could have used a little love before I used it but didn't really have the time to put it to the stones, and I don't know if I trust my abilities enough to mess with someone else's property. It was an absolute pleasure to use, still cant wrap my head around the current market price for something like this. It's a great knife, but I can think of like 2 or 3 different knives I'd rather own multiples of for the price of just one of these.
I would love to own this knife at prices from about 5 or 6 years ago, but not at current going rates


----------



## Nagakin

Received yesterday and made lunch. Def could use some love from somebody else but it feels good so far.


----------



## labor of love

Whoever ends up getting the Kato at the end of this passaround please contact me if you would like to sell it. I was very impressed with it. Sounds like the geometry might’ve thickened some since I used it. Am I the only person that noticed the cracks in the spine?


----------



## tgfencer

It sounds like it could use a thinning, but obviously I'm not in a position to judge. I'm planning on having it thinned, cleaned up, and sharpened at the end of this thing, but if folks think it needs attention now maybe I can arrange for it to make a stop somewhere.


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Am I the only person that noticed the cracks in the spine?


Yikes. Tell more


----------



## labor of love

2 very mild cracks (IMO) near the handle.


----------



## bahamaroot

tgfencer said:


> It sounds like it could use a thinning, but obviously I'm not in a position to judge. I'm planning on having it thinned, cleaned up, and sharpened at the end of this thing, but if folks think it needs attention now maybe I can arrange for it to make a stop somewhere.


I can't see it really needing thinning yet, I bet it hasn't seen a full progression more than a couple times. I only stopped it when I had it. I think it just needs someone with the confidence to put a good edge on it at this point.


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> 2 very mild cracks (IMO) near the handle.
> View attachment 88127
> View attachment 88128
> View attachment 88129
> View attachment 88130


Never seen something like that before. Or heard of other examples with cracks. The last pic is especially eyecatching. Interesting


----------



## Nagakin

Still falls through food, I wouldn't call it thick bte by any means. More like a beaut just needing some tender loving care


----------



## Nagakin

I see them, but I can only feel one with my fingernail.


----------



## TSF415

I have a mazaki with the same thing. I guess he takes after the master very closely.


----------



## labor of love

TSF415 said:


> I have a mazaki with the same thing. I guess he takes after the master very closely.


I’m no expert on cracks, but it looks harmless.


----------



## McMan

labor of love said:


> 2 very mild cracks (IMO) near the handle.
> View attachment 88127
> View attachment 88128
> View attachment 88129
> View attachment 88130


Good eye. I missed those.


----------



## captaincaed

Just so I can be on my toes, am I up next? I'm not getting thread updates for some reason.


----------



## Nagakin

captaincaed said:


> Just so I can be on my toes, am I up next? I'm not getting thread updates for some reason.


yezzir


----------



## tgfencer

McMan said:


> Good eye. I missed those.



I missed them as well until Craig pointed them out to me when he had the knife. Frankly, I've adopted a very laissez-faire attitude toward these types of little hairline cracks/delaminations,etc. I've got a few knives (of both Western and Japanese origin) with various weld/crack-like imperfections on the spine that you can catch on a fingernail and never had an ounce of trouble with them. Maybe at some point they'll suddenly break or pull themselves apart along the weld line but until that happens, I'm not too bothered by it.


----------



## captaincaed

Knife is safely with me.
@ryanjams is next?


----------



## danemonji

Strangely the cracks don't show in the initial photos with the spine the Op posted. Cracks that large are hard to miss.


----------



## Matus

Maybe they got visible after Some use when some humidity creeped in and caused discoloration


----------



## danemonji

Yes that might be the case.


----------



## labor of love

danemonji said:


> Strangely the cracks don't show in the initial photos with the spine the Op posted. Cracks that large are hard to miss.


To the contrary, the cracks aren’t very big at all. Which is why 10 or so people didn’t even notice them and why they only show up in photos where the camera is several inches from the knife.


----------



## captaincaed

Knife is ready for the next leg of the trip. Could the next in line please PM me with and address?
Should be @ryanjams up next, but still haven't heard any word. If not, I think it's @TSF415.

Videos coming soon


----------



## captaincaed

Cutting playlist








Kato comparison


For comparison: Murata santoku as a basic J-knife comparison - thinner behind the edge with harder shoulders mid-blade Rader gyuto for a midweight full conve...




www.youtube.com





I figure this won't interest most of the older guard, but may interest newer folks who haven't tried a Kato yet (this was my first time). Lots of foods to compare.

For comparison:
Murata santoku as a basic J-knife comparison - thinner behind the edge with harder shoulders mid-blade
Rader gyuto for a midweight full convex comparison
Yoshikane for a super thin comparison with a high polish
Fujiwara for a high-performance comparison
Hunter Valley Blades by Mert Tansu for a workhorse comparison with a different grind style (very thin behind the edge, subtle convex, shoulder very high up the blade (sorry I forgot this one until the apple videos)

I gave it an OK edge. My goal was to minimize steel removed but get in in shape to compare.

The knife is off to @ryanjams insured with an edge, cleaned with Flitz.

Also, I looked hard for those cracks...I think y'all are overthinking that ****.


----------



## labor of love

I mean, the cracks definitely exist. But I agree they don’t seem to be problematic.


----------



## captaincaed

Yeah, but so minor


----------



## TSF415

From the pic it looked similar to the one on my Mazaki which James from KNS said was a de-lamination line. It also looks similar to the Carter that just sold on bst which was originally discounted for having a delam.

Cool set of videos @captaincaed but you scared me when you went to core the apple.


----------



## captaincaed

TSF415 said:


> From the pic it looked similar to the one on my Mazaki which James from KNS said was a de-lamination line. It also looks similar to the Carter that just sold on bst which was originally discounted for having a delam.
> 
> Cool set of videos @captaincaed but you scared me when you went to core the apple.


It's funny I feel totally confident doing that, and have done it for years. But my balls sucked back up into me when I watched myself editing these videos. I've never cut myself, but I guess there's always a first time for everything.


----------



## captaincaed

Also, whoever says Mazaki is like Kato? I've heard that opinion float around. they are nothing alike.


----------



## ryanjams

Knife is safely in my possession. I’ve been using a Ginga 210 almost exclusively since I’ve just been home cooking since March, should be quite a contrast. I’ll probably prep a bolognese this weekend then keep it moving.


----------



## JoBone

labor of love said:


> Wait, Mazaki makes Damascus? Why didn’t someone mention this?



They look great too


----------



## TSF415

Received the knife today. Super excited to try it out. It looks like a knife that's been passed around and the edge looks like its getting a bit thick. 

Pics of the current state. I'm not sure how many people are left but if OP wants I can take it over to Bernal for some TLC or to a Bay Area member with the skills. Otherwise I'll use and pass along to next person.

I'll get a quick review up in a few days once I get some time with it.


----------



## McMan

What's up with the scratch pattern? Is it the lighting? Looks more pronounced now.


----------



## Ryndunk

McMan said:


> What's up with the scratch pattern? Is it the lighting? Looks more pronounced now.


I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## McMan

Used to look like this...


----------



## TSF415

Yea I'm kinda thinking the same thing. It is not the lighting. It stops short of the handle. Looks like some light sandpapering are something of the sort.


----------



## panda

TSF415 said:


> Received the knife today. Super excited to try it out. It looks like a knife that's been passed around and the edge looks like its getting a bit thick.
> 
> Pics of the current state. I'm not sure how many people are left but if OP wants I can take it over to Bernal for some TLC or to a Bay Area member with the skills. Otherwise I'll use and pass along to next person.
> 
> I'll get a quick review up in a few days once I get some time with it.View attachment 90857
> View attachment 90858


it look like a 5th grader refinished it


----------



## Nagakin

On first sight I thought I clicked on the wrong thread.


----------



## Jville

McMan said:


> What's up with the scratch pattern? Is it the lighting? Looks more pronounced now.


Yeah, that looks odd, doesn't seem right. It also, not sure if it's the lighting, seems to change at the neck area to looking more like your pic.


----------



## captaincaed

Yeah I didn't think it had a great finish when I got it, but I don't remember it looking like that. Didn't leave my place that way.


----------



## juice

Nagakin said:


> On first sight I thought I clicked on the wrong thread.


Yeah, I thought I was in a WIP thread.


----------



## Jville




----------



## Corradobrit1

Somebody used one of these on it. Looking ruff


----------



## labor of love

I gotta say, atleast the scratch pattern is even and consistent.


----------



## juice

Yeah gang in on the case, kids.


----------



## Nagakin

juice said:


> Yeah gang in on the case, kids.
> 
> View attachment 90890


Yeah, sounds about right.


----------



## slickmamba

Yeah, thats terrible. At least its not hard to get it fixed


----------



## labor of love

Okay-this prankster was good, but I can do better. Next pass around I participate in I think I’ll regrind reprofile and rehandle the knife before I ship it. The gauntlet has been thrown down, challenge accepted.


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> Okay-this prankster was good, but I can do better. Next pass around I participate in I think I’ll regrind reprofile and rehandle the knife before I ship it. The gauntlet has been thrown down, challenge accepted.


Fingers crossed next one is a Nakiri. Right @ma_sha1 ?


----------



## tgfencer

TSF415 said:


> Received the knife today. Super excited to try it out. It looks like a knife that's been passed around and the edge looks like its getting a bit thick.
> 
> Pics of the current state. I'm not sure how many people are left but if OP wants I can take it over to Bernal for some TLC or to a Bay Area member with the skills. Otherwise I'll use and pass along to next person.
> 
> I'll get a quick review up in a few days once I get some time with it.View attachment 90857
> View attachment 90858



Yikes, unless the lighting is super deceptive that is not a normal Kato finish. The patina and oxidation visible beneath the scratch pattern makes me think that maybe it got some surface rust or something that someone tried to get rid of. At any rate, things could be worse. There's 5 folks left, so I'd like to get it fixed up a bit. Shooting you a PM @TSF415.


----------



## danemonji

TSF415 said:


> Received the knife today. Super excited to try it out. It looks like a knife that's been passed around and the edge looks like its getting a bit thick.
> 
> Pics of the current state. I'm not sure how many people are left but if OP wants I can take it over to Bernal for some TLC or to a Bay Area member with the skills. Otherwise I'll use and pass along to next person.
> 
> I'll get a quick review up in a few days once I get some time with it.View attachment 90857
> View attachment 90858


Someone really messed this knife up. The finish was done by rough sandpaper and that bevel looks like heavy overgrind. No wonder the knife doesn't perform anymore. If you don't know how to touch up a knife why learn how to sharpen on a Kato passaround? This is hard to watch.
Is it still the same knife or someone switched it ? I would check the kanji marks well


----------



## labor of love

danemonji said:


> Someone really messed this knife up. The finish was done by rough sandpaper and that bevel looks like heavy overgrind. No wonder the knife doesn't perform anymore. If you don't know how to touch up a knife why learn how to sharpen on a Kato passaround? This is hard to watch.
> Is it still the same knife or someone switched it ? I would check the kanji marks well


2 hairline sized cracks that are on the spine close to the handle will indicate whether it’s the passaround knife or not.


----------



## tgfencer

labor of love said:


> 2 hairline sized cracks that are on the spine close to the handle will indicate whether it’s the passaround knife or not.



Also the blade is not set straight in the handle, it’s off centered.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Wow, like getting your 911 keyed.


----------



## labor of love

Wassup @ryanjams 
What did you think of Kato?


----------



## McMan

Chicagohawkie said:


> Wow, like getting your 911 keyed.


More like getting it keyed, having the scratches rust, then buffing it out with 80-grit.


----------



## ryanjams

Hate to admit, I didn't even get to use it. Lots going on, then I just wanted to keep it moving. I actually didn't even open the package from @captaincaed


----------



## ryanjams

Definitely looks jacked up, but I can't take any credit for that


----------



## Runner_up

danemonji said:


> Someone really messed this knife up. The finish was done by rough sandpaper and that bevel looks like heavy overgrind. No wonder the knife doesn't perform anymore. If you don't know how to touch up a knife why learn how to sharpen on a Kato passaround? This is hard to watch.
> Is it still the same knife or someone switched it ? I would check the kanji marks well



Seriously. 

If you don't know how to refinish a knife you shouldn't touch it. If I were generous enough to host a passaround (especially for a rare knife), I'd be feeling a little sore that someone just decided to take rough sandpaper to it...

What a bummer


----------



## slickmamba

I'm going to assume someone let it rust to hell, and _tried_ to clean it up. If it was you, please just contact tgfencer, common courtesy. Its not very hard to narrow down where it potentially happened. Not the end of the world for any party, just sucks that people aren't adults about it.


----------



## ian

True. Iirc, @SilverSwarfer broke the HSCIII passaround knife in half! But he was totally upfront about it, and all was well in the end.


----------



## KCMande

Sorry haven't been around for a couple of days.
Pictures of the knife day I received it

I may be the offender here on the finish. The knife arrived to me with surface rust forming. I asked the tgfencer if he wanted me to clean it up with flitz or bkf to get rid of it he said it was fine. I didn't think I was that aggressive on the blade but that is definitely went spine to blade when rubbing it down.
I sprayed it with Camelia oil before shipping it off to the next person but it looks like that rust is still forming in the same spots.
I will graciously accept any cost that is required to refinish the blade now or after the pass around.
My apologies everyone.
Especially tgfencer


----------



## ryanjams

I apologize if I contributed to the rust by not opening and inspecting it while it was in my possession. Would have hoped it was clean, dry and oiled for safe travels before it was sent to me. It just sat on my dining table before getting relabeled and essentially forwarded.


----------



## McMan

captaincaed said:


> Yeah I didn't think it had a great finish when I got it, but I don't remember it looking like that. *Didn't leave my place that way.*


----------



## Corradobrit1

KCMande said:


> View attachment 90939
> View attachment 90941
> 
> Sorry haven't been around for a couple of days.
> Pictures of the knife day I received it
> 
> I may be the offender here on the finish. The knife arrived to me with surface rust forming. I asked the tgfencer if he wanted me to clean it up with flitz or bkf to get rid of it he said it was fine. I didn't think I was that aggressive on the blade but that is definitely went spine to blade when rubbing it down.
> I sprayed it with Camelia oil before shipping it off to the next person but it looks like that rust is still forming in the same spots.
> I will graciously accept any cost that is required to refinish the blade now or after the pass around.
> My apologies everyone.
> Especially tgfencer


Appears these pics were taken 7/6 when you got the knife. Who shipped to KCMande? Looks like it was put away wet. Experience like this would stop me from organizing a Passaround. I would say no one is going to get a good impression of this Kato until its properly refinished, especially along the edge and blade road. They will just experience a wedge monster.


----------



## KCMande

That was my point
The pictures were from the day I received the knife I believe I received it from ryanjams whom just said he didn't even open the box when he received it


----------



## labor of love

flitz or bkf isn’t responsible for the knives current condition though. Some crazy coarse abrasive is.


----------



## ryanjams

Your photos threw my timeline off a bit, as I didn't look who was posting, but I shipped most recently to TSF415, who just got it over the weekend, in scratched-up condition which sparked this whole discussion.


----------



## KCMande

I received the knife from
Pgugger
And sent it to 
Nagagkin


----------



## ian

labor of love said:


> flitz or bkf isn’t responsible for the knives current condition though. Some crazy coarse abrasive is.



What do you use to apply Flitz tho? I usually use 120 grit sandpaper.

———

Also, sorry guys. I haven’t been wanting to admit it, but I probably was the one that ruined the Kato. I know I’m not technically “part of the passaround”, but I had this dream the other night where I took all the sandpaper and steel wool in my house, put it in the bathtub, and took a bath with it and a Kato standard. I think my dream may have caused this. Sorry again, I’m happy to pay for it to be refinished.


----------



## danemonji

ian said:


> What do you use to apply Flitz tho? I usually use 120 grit sandpaper.
> 
> ———
> 
> Also, sorry guys. I haven’t been wanting to admit it, but I probably was the one that ruined the Kato. I know I’m not technically “part of the passaround”, but I had this dream the other night where I took all the sandpaper and steel wool in my house, put it in the bathtub, and took a bath with it and a Kato standard. I think my dream may have caused this. Sorry again, I’m happy to pay for it to be refinished.


So you forgot to wipe and dry it in the end.


----------



## tgfencer

I’m not worried about trying to find someone to blame. I’m not angry about this, these kind of things happen on passarounds. I’m not sure a witch hunt is necessary or even productive. I’d hope for the future that folks would feel that it was ok to admit they made a mistake or let something rust during any PA because then quick steps can be taken to fix the problem correctly without causing further issues.

As of now, I’m checking out a few options to get the Kato back to fighting form. It might mean a small delay for the last 5 folks but it seems a necessary step.

@KCMande No blame on you, my friend. BKF and Flitz did not cause this and surface rust isn't unusual on Katos when they don't have proper patinas. Jumping households and trips in the mail certainly don't help either.


----------



## labor of love

ian said:


> What do you use to apply Flitz tho? I usually use 120 grit sandpaper.
> 
> ———


Wouldn’t 120 grit sandpaper remove the entire finish? I mean if that’s your goal then cool but a simple kitchen towel should work well removing patina.


----------



## ian

labor of love said:


> Wouldn’t 120 grit sandpaper remove the entire finish? I mean if that’s your goal then cool but a simple kitchen towel should work well removing patina.



Sorry, bad joke. I usually use a paper towel.


----------



## captaincaed

juice said:


> Yeah gang in on the case, kids.
> 
> View attachment 90890


 I'm sorry?


----------



## slickmamba

captaincaed said:


> I'm sorry?



Yeah, can be confusing when you first look at it.


----------



## pgugger

KCMande said:


> I received the knife from
> Pgugger
> And sent it to
> Nagagkin



Definitely didn’t have any rust while in my possession. Perhaps moisture got in during shipment. I apologize for any role I might have had in the rust formation.


----------



## slickmamba

Just wipe down fully reactive knives with mineral oil, camellia oil, etc before shipping out. I've received plenty of rusted knives over the years cause people think its dry when they send it out


----------



## bahamaroot

At this point it is what it is. tgfencer isn't concerned about the "how and when", good on him, so probably should just move on from it.

A positive of this pass around, it's moved along very well given the number of people involved. Very few delays, I'm impressed there.


----------



## ma_sha1

It wasn’t me! I have an alibi, I wasn’t even in the pass around


----------



## Barmoley

ma_sha1 said:


> It wasn’t me! I have an alibi, I wasn’t even in the pass around


That proves nothing, nothing I tell ya.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Holy crap hadn’t been on here in a bit and just saw this, sure looks like a green scrubbie or something, definitely didn’t look like that when I had it! it must have rusted-rusted for someone, it got some patina with me but came right off with simichrome. That’s sucky especially since almost anything that happens to a knife is fixable


----------



## bahamaroot

Heelllooo....is anybody out there......?


----------



## ma_sha1

bahamaroot said:


> Heelllooo....is anybody out there......?


----------



## M1k3

bahamaroot said:


> Heelllooo....is anybody out there......?


Just nod if you can hear me


----------



## labor of love

Kato was living life fast and loose and paid the price for it. Last I heard he checked himself into rehab to sort himself out.


----------



## labor of love

Oh wait, we’re talking about the knife! Yeah I dunno wassup with that.


----------



## soigne_west

Usps is probably having their turn in the PA.


----------



## slickmamba

im just chillin, patiently waiting for my turn


----------



## tgfencer

Sorry folks, I meant to update everyone but it slipped my mind. Knife took a vacation for some TLC and is now currently in transit to the next member.


----------



## CiderBear

tgfencer said:


> Sorry folks, I meant to update everyone but it slipped my mind. Knife took a vacation for some TLC and is now currently in transit to the next member.



Knife got a vacation before any of us could since the passaround started


----------



## soigne_west

CiderBear said:


> Knife got a vacation before any of us could since the passaround started




I’ve been on vacation this whole time


----------



## Corradobrit1

Awfully quiet around here


----------



## M1k3

Corradobrit1 said:


> Awfully quiet around here
> View attachment 97154


Knife had to make a pit stop for a little tune up.


----------



## Tristan

Would be a nice component of passarounds to have received and shipped photos as part of the process... my 2 cents


----------



## tgfencer

Just a quick update. I wanted to let everyone know that there is going to be another delay. The current member with the knife has experienced some sudden, urgent medical problems within his family that have called him away from home. I ask everyone to be patient and considerate. Hopefully all goes well for him.

To the handful of participants left who have been patiently waiting for their turn, thanks for being understanding. Once things get moving again, I hope everyone will get their chance soon enough.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Where we at then?


----------



## tgfencer

I’ve sent the member a message requesting an update and am waiting on a reply.


----------



## jimmy_d

Hey everyone! Sorry I was MIA when my turn came up - it was months ago at this point. Life just got a bit crazy with covid, 2 young kids, work, etc. Honestly I forgot I was even in this! Just reading through the thread and it looks like the Kato has been on quite the journey.


----------



## tgfencer

The knife has now moved on to @slickmamba and hopefullly we should get to the last few folks on the passaround here in the next month or so.

Again, thanks for the patience everyone has shown. I personally appreciate that we can all show such understanding for a fellow forumite who’s been through a tough time. Cheers everyone.


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## CiderBear

@tgfencer thanks for organizing this in the first place


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## Barmoley

I received the knife after it traveled for about a week from San Diego to Los Angeles. Here are the pictures of proof of life. Pictures of tiny spine cracks to prove it is the same knife


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## jacko9

Just curious about did anyone ever enquire about the spine cracks?


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## TSF415

jacko9 said:


> Just curious about did anyone ever enquire about the spine cracks?



I think it is a de-lamination line.......Not because I actually know what I'm talking about but because...... I have something similar on one of my knives I bought from KNS and James told me its not a crack but a delam and not to worry, and also because someone had something similar on their knife from Carter Cutlery and it was sold as a 2nd and called a delam.


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## tcmx3

looking good again.

out of curiosity for those who this passaround has been their first exposure, did you buy a Kato after? or if the cost is prohibitive, if you had 1000 to spend on a knife would you buy a Kato instead of something(s) else?


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## GorillaGrunt

It was my first Kato experience and I’m going to consider picking one up. Just got a Dalman, next is a Yoshi SLD or a Denka, then maybe a Kato. As an aside I actually got all the knives this year that I put on my wish list in January! Probably the one thing that went as planned in 2020. Except one custom but the order is in and it’s pending.


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## Chicagohawkie

jacko9 said:


> Just curious about did anyone ever enquire about the spine cracks?


I think it’s just the cladding that has been ground down to the core steel. Pretty common on Kato knives.


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## M1k3

tcmx3 said:


> looking good again.
> 
> out of curiosity for those who this passaround has been their first exposure, did you buy a Kato after? or if the cost is prohibitive, if you had 1000 to spend on a knife would you buy a Kato instead of something(s) else?


@labor of love


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## Barmoley

The tiny cracks are perpendicular to the spine the darker line that is parallel is just a reflection. I don’t think these are a problem at all. I wasn’t trying to imply that.


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## captaincaed

First time, turned me off entirely. I think I generally prefer thinner knives 



tcmx3 said:


> looking good again.
> 
> out of curiosity for those who this passaround has been their first exposure, did you buy a Kato after? or if the cost is prohibitive, if you had 1000 to spend on a knife would you buy a Kato instead of something(s) else?


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## Barmoley

The knife is on the way to the last participant. First of all big thank you to @tgfencer for allowing me to try this knife. I haven't tried a Kato before and this was a great opportunity to check it out. I used it for about a week as my main knife only comparing it at certain times to Marko workhorse just to see how similar these are. Over all, I liked Kato a lot and I think it is a good knife. Originally the reactivity of the cladding surprised me, since it discolored onions the first time I cut onions with it. This went away the next time once patina formed. I don't know if the cladding is unusually reactive or if I had an unusual onion. This only happened once. The knife cut well and food release is good, it is a good middle of the road knife to me, good at everything, doesn't really excel in anything specific. I wasn't blown away by any one characteristic of the knife, but it was pleasant to use and did well on everything I used it on. Out of all the knives I've used it reminded me most of the previous generation CKC Mazaki, not the same but many similarities in use overall. The profile and grind worked well for me on this Kato. I usually like for the tip to be a little lower, but this worked well. Balance was good for me. All in all, a good experience and a good knife. Would I buy it at current market price range? I wouldn't. I would probably buy it if it was in the $650-$700 price range, given how the prices for kitchen knives have gone up in the last few years.


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## Alder26

Barmoley said:


> The knife is on the way to the last participant. First of all big thank you to @tgfencer for allowing me to try this knife. I haven't tried a Kato before and this was a great opportunity to check it out. I used it for about a week as my main knife only comparing it at certain times to Marko workhorse just to see how similar these are. Over all, I liked Kato a lot and I think it is a good knife. Originally the reactivity of the cladding surprised me, since it discolored onions the first time I cut onions with it. This went away the next time once patina formed. I don't know if the cladding is unusually reactive or if I had an unusual onion. This only happened once. The knife cut well and food release is good, it is a good middle of the road knife to me, good at everything, doesn't really excel in anything specific. I wasn't blown away by any one characteristic of the knife, but it was pleasant to use and did well on everything I used it on. Out of all the knives I've used it reminded me most of the previous generation CKC Mazaki, not the same but many similarities in use overall. The profile and grind worked well for me on this Kato. I usually like for the tip to be a little lower, but this worked well. Balance was good for me. All in all, a good experience and a good knife. Would I buy it at current market price range? I wouldn't. I would probably buy it if it was in the $650-$700 price range, given how the prices for kitchen knives have gone up in the last few years.


How similar do you find the kato to Tsourkan? I know that in many ways Tsourkan modeled the workhorse profile of his knives after Kato. It was a part of the I was attracted to Tsourkan’s work initially.


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## Gregmega

Alder26 said:


> How similar do you find the kato to Tsourkan? I know that in many ways Tsourkan modeled the workhorse profile of his knives after Kato. It was a part of the I was attracted to Tsourkan’s work initially.


Tsourkan’s blades are much more sturdy than Kato, His cross-sectional geometry is thicker all around and the blade on the whole is considerably heavier. I’d guess by about 20%, so it’s pretty significant. Kato is super thin behind the edge as a result feels more delicate, so really the only thing that ties the 2 together would be the profile. I know Kato was used as inspiration for the line, but that’s about as far as it goes IME.

*I just had a thought about the Tsourkan blade as well- it’s a pretty heavy convex grind and Kato is a bit more flat, which also adds to the beefiness of his vs Kato.


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## tcmx3

agree, Tsourkan is a great knife but it's an axe compared to a Kato.

it's a bit like cutting with a hammer. feels great but finesse requires a certain degree of doing.


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## Gregmega

Yeah that about sums it up. It’s got a ton more ‘presence’ on the board, like a very commanding weighty piece that wants to clobber things, kinda indestructible.

I actually bounced mine on a concrete floor and it didn’t even have a scratch. 52100 is no joke. The kato probs woulda broken in half


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## Luftmensch

Barmoley said:


> The tiny cracks are perpendicular to the spine the darker line that is parallel is just a reflection. I don’t think these are a problem at all. I wasn’t trying to imply that.
> 
> View attachment 105963



Fascinating.... The two dominant parallel lines are the san-mai sandwich. The first (left) perpendicular line is the beginning of the sandwich. The other two are irregular. Cracks? Cold forging? Deep scratches?





Barmoley said:


> Originally the reactivity of the cladding surprised me, since it discolored onions the first time I cut onions with it. This went away the next time once patina formed. I don't know if the cladding is unusually reactive or if I had an unusual onion



It werent the onion


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## Barmoley

tcmx3 said:


> agree, Tsourkan is a great knife but it's an axe compared to a Kato.
> 
> it's a bit like cutting with a hammer. feels great but finesse requires a certain degree of doing.


My experience is different. Of course I only tried this Kato standard and not the work horse. The profiles are similar and I agree that Marko in general is a sturdier and heavier knife. Part of it is due to the excellent Marko handle which is made out of heavy wood. The blade itself feels sturdier too, but I wouldn't call it an ax by any means. Between the two I prefer Marko even if they were the same price. Marko feels better on the stones, but I generally don't care about that. I don't think that Marko is thicker behind the edge at least not enough to notice for me. Again just one Kato example so not an expert.

Don't get me wrong both are excellent knives and if Kato was cheaper I would have one, but if I had to pick between the two I'd pick Marko workhorse.


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## tcmx3

Barmoley said:


> My experience is different. Of course I only tried this Kato standard and not the work horse. The profiles are similar and I agree that Marko in general is a sturdier and heavier knife. Part of it is due to the excellent Marko handle which is made out of heavy wood. The blade itself feels sturdier too, but I wouldn't call it an ax by any means. Between the two I prefer Marko even if they were the same price. Marko feels better on the stones, but I generally don't care about that. I don't think that Marko is thicker behind the edge at least not enough to notice for me. Again just one Kato example so not an expert.
> 
> Don't get me wrong both are excellent knives and if Kato was cheaper I would have one, but if I had to pick between the two I'd pick Marko workhorse.



it's relative right?

of every knife I own I believe Tsourkan is the thickest behind the edge except Z Kramer. 

I prefer the grind and profile of the Kato (it is, afterall, my favorite knife) and everything else I prefer Tsourkan. unlike most folks though I have an AEBL workhorse and his HT of the stuff turned me into a believer.

to me both are great knives though Tsourkan is starting to leave the realm of reasonably priced (though direct it's fine) and Kato left that a long time ago. as such, these days for a knife in this weight class I now actually prefer Mazaki although I will say Ive now put a few hours into mine thinning it and cleaning up the heinously ugly finish he leaves on his knives.

I wish more folks did profiles that looked like Kato's btw. if anyone has the heads up on something in that region, especially with a nashiji kurouchi style finish, Id appreciate the info.


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## Gregmega

Mazaki all day (kochi to a degree)


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## Gregmega

Barmoley said:


> My experience is different. Of course I only tried this Kato standard and not the work horse. The profiles are similar and I agree that Marko in general is a sturdier and heavier knife. Part of it is due to the excellent Marko handle which is made out of heavy wood. The blade itself feels sturdier too, but I wouldn't call it an ax by any means. Between the two I prefer Marko even if they were the same price. Marko feels better on the stones, but I generally don't care about that. I don't think that Marko is thicker behind the edge at least not enough to notice for me. Again just one Kato example so not an expert.
> 
> Don't get me wrong both are excellent knives and if Kato was cheaper I would have one, but if I had to pick between the two I'd pick Marko workhorse.


I think what really sets the two apart isn’t how thin it is behind the edge so much as the cross sectional geometry just beyond the edge for me. My Marko cracked a bit on carrots, where as I just used my 240 std the other night and it ghosts through carrots & denser materials. My 210wh also is a much more nuanced and thin overall grind. Mind you all these blades have pretty close geometry- 220/50 (wh) 225/50 (MT) 225/52 (std). With the ratio of metal removed on that small of a variance and in the right places, it feels like a mile on the boards (if that makes sense).


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## Midsummer

My Kato WH (Kiyoshi 2014 Maxim) is obese behind the edge. Have yet to try Tsourkan.


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## Barmoley

The only Marko workhorses I've tried were 52100 I don't remember any of the 4 cracking carrots. Depends on the carrots I suppose. In any case Kato is too expensive for me for what it is given the one example I tried. Marko to me is a better knife over all. Maybe I am not skilled enough to get the Kato magic and I would definitely own one if the price was reasonable. As it stands I am very glad I tried this one and thankful for this opportunity.


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## tcmx3

Barmoley said:


> The only Marko workhorses I've tried were 52100 I don't remember any of the 4 cracking carrots. Depends on the carrots I suppose. In any case Kato is too expensive for me for what it is given the one example I tried. Marko to me is a better knife over all. Maybe I am not skilled enough to get the Kato magic and I would definitely own one if the price was reasonable. As it stands I am very glad I tried this one and thankful for this opportunity.



it's unlikely it's about skill. there are tons of pro chefs on this forum who can cut and cook circles around me (though Im not so bad compared to normal people)

we all have preferences. 

and it's not like these knives are made on a line by robots, they can differ quite a bit. my Kato WH is similarly very thin behind edge, doesnt mean yours was.


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## Midsummer

tcmx3 said:


> it's not like these knives are made on a line by robots, they can differ quite a bit.



^^^
This is so true.... I should either check the knife out before buying or have a vendor I can trust to check it for me.


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## tgfencer

Alright folks, the Kato passaround is now complete. Thanks to everyone who participated for keeping everything running smoothly despite the few inevitable bumps along the way.

Now for the giveaway. I'm going to stick with the tried and true Random number generator. I've included a list of everyone who participated below. Please help me make sure I didn't leave anybody off or keep someone who dropped out, as the list did change a few times during the passaround. I'm hoping to do the drawing tomorrow. I'll post the winner here and contact them via PM.

@SilverSwarfer
@McMan
@GorillaGrunt
@Ryndunk
@bahamaroot
@Cloudsmoker
@Cool_charlie
@labor of love
@CiderBear
@Barclid
@pgugger
@KCMande
@jimmy_d
@Nagakin
@captaincaed
@ryanjams
@TSF415
@mise_en_place
@Ivang
@slickmamba
@Barmoley
@Hamesjo


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## tgfencer

And the winner of the 2020-2021 Kato Passaround Giveaway is.............(drum roll)...........


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## tgfencer

Number 22! @Hamesjo


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## McMan

Congrats to @Hamesjo!
Thanks again to @tgfencer for putting this together--a fun and thoughtful idea to make this a PA instead of simply selling the Kato. Very cool to think of this as a way to let people try a knife they might not have the opportunity to use otherwise.


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