# Jnats that (generally!) fill the 'gap' between 2/3K and 6/7k+?



## Smashmasta (Nov 5, 2016)

Every stone is different. Gotcha. But _generally _speaking, from what you've read to what you've used, what are some jnats that fill that chunk between some stones that leave a (generally) solid toothy finish, and stones that (generally) leave a more refined finish? 
Personally, I have an aggressive blue aizu (which is soooooo awesome) and a slow red aoto (which is nice, but slow for me) on one side of the 'gap;, and than my lineup jumps to a tsushima on the otherside. After that it's mostly fine suitas and the like.
There's certainly that factor of pressure and time that can play into all of this eg, I can work the swarf on the red aoto for longer than normal to get to a higher finishing grit; but let's say I don't have much time (which simply plays into the 'generally speaking' aspect of the question) - which stone(s) can I quickly slap some steel on and (generally) get that nice balance of a refined toothy finish?

Thanks


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## Badgertooth (Nov 6, 2016)

There's a trifecta of softer pre-finishers that get a lot of love in the form of Takashima, Hakka and Hideriyama. Of which I have a grand total of zero experience but that's generally where they're pitched at. You might find your maruoyama is that stone for you though.


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## Badgertooth (Nov 6, 2016)

Scratch that, just reread your post and header. Maruoyama is quite a bit finer than that gap you're looking for.


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## jaknil (Nov 6, 2016)

From my own collection, I have in this range:

Khao Men: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/27606-Khao-men?highlight=khao+men
Takashima: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com...a-lv-2-5-a940/ also shown here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/6921-J-Nat-Club/page120?highlight=jaknil
Yaginoshima suita also from JNS. No pics available just now. 
Maroyama suita

However I believe that the only one of these that truly fits in the "gap" is the first one, the Khao men. 
I think that the others are at least 6K. Well, this is since I belive, my Takashima is one from the High-grit-end.

All in all, from here it is a vote for the Khao men, for something to fit the bill.
But the takashima is also very, very nice.


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## Jacob_x (Nov 6, 2016)

I've got a soft takashima that I use a lot. In a working environment my knives never really get dull enough to warrant dropping to a coarser stone (which is why my Ikarashi never got used!) so this is generally my starting point for most of my knives. The edge it leaves is perfectly acceptable, and if I want to go further on suitas or fine finishers, it's a great platform to do so from.
As badger said, hakka and hideryama should also be in the similar range, although I haven't tried yet but would love to compare.


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## ynot1985 (Nov 6, 2016)

I go with Khao men just because it's so cheap.. doesn't hurt to get one to try


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## gic (Nov 6, 2016)

+1 on teh Khao min, great great stone for the money


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## Jacob_x (Nov 6, 2016)

You lot and your khao men! Shipping to the UK works out as same cost as the stone, so if any of you want to bring me one on your next visit please do!


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## ynot1985 (Nov 6, 2016)

I remember it was about 60-70 usd shipped from Thailand (for anyone not aware.. this is not a jnat but a natural stone from Thailand). It's massive!! I leave it at work for maintaining my fruit knives but it also serves as a door stop/paperweight. You can't get any jnats at this pricepoint unless you take a gamble on yahoo auction jp and run the risk of getting a dud stone


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## Asteger (Nov 6, 2016)

I'm not the greatest at measuring grit and tend not to think of things this way, but yeah Takashima and Hakka are stones that aren't that far from Aizu and could/should fit here. Ohira suita too, not that fine (though you can push through its range going finer). Some aoto (though rare) go beyond 3k. Chu nagura - more for polishing - fit here. 

You could also be old-fashioned and not think just of single stones to get, but of stones combined with nagura/slurry. Use a really hard medium like Tajima or maybe a Chu would work and just progress through a few nagura, like some razor users might using a single hard stone. You don't need the perfect 'grit' stones and there's always flexibility.


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## Smashmasta (Nov 8, 2016)

Got a reply from Morihei and Shinichi that blue aizus are a bit finer and every so slightly harder than white aizus. The aizu I have definitely has a slight blue hue to it, and is hard and one of my finer workhorses. Just an FYI.


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## Asteger (Nov 9, 2016)

Smashmasta said:


> Got a reply from Morihei and Shinichi that blue aizus are a bit finer and every so slightly harder than white aizus. The aizu I have definitely has a slight blue hue to it, and is hard and one of my finer workhorses. Just an FYI.



Might be true. The white-ish ones def seem less common if I haven't said. I've thought before that the whites can seem slightly less consistent. The one I've been using is blue-ish, just because I've sold my white-ish ones in the past which I considered equally as good. Very subtle differences between them generally, I think.


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## Smashmasta (Nov 9, 2016)

Asteger said:


> Might be true. The white-ish ones def seem less common if I haven't said. I've thought before that the whites can seem slightly less consistent. The one I've been using is blue-ish, just because I've sold my white-ish ones in the past which I considered equally as good. Very subtle differences between them generally, I think.



Asteger, please clear your inbox


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## fatboylim (Nov 9, 2016)

+1 for the Khao Men. Regarding shipping to the UK, best to get two stones from Miles as the shipping is almost the same. I got the Orange Binsui 800-1000 which is excellent. I have no experience with the white binsui, but it seems to be popularly used after a 1000 synthetic. 

A side note, any recommendations for a natural stone polisher after the Khao Men that is not crazy expensive?


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## Smashmasta (Nov 9, 2016)

fatboylim said:


> +1 for the Khao Men. Regarding shipping to the UK, best to get two stones from Miles as the shipping is almost the same. I got the Orange Binsui 800-1000 which is excellent. I have no experience with the white binsui, but it seems to be popularly used after a 1000 synthetic.
> 
> A side note, any recommendations for a natural stone polisher after the Khao Men that is not crazy expensive?



This might fit the bill:
http://www.aframestokyo.com/yaginoshima-awasedo-natural-whetstone-17036g170363122.html


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## fatboylim (Nov 9, 2016)

That is a big stone for the money and thanks Smashmaster. It does say medium high hard stone. Is that good for attempting Kasumi finish on a double bevelled edge?


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## Smashmasta (Nov 9, 2016)

fatboylim said:


> That is a big stone for the money and thanks Smashmaster. It does say medium high hard stone. Is that good for attempting Kasumi finish on a double bevelled edge?



Thought you said for polishing. That stone will make more of a mirror-like finish, since it's harder. Contrast will still occur. You might want something a little softer for an easier time getting a kasumi finish. What type of knife do you have?

It's described as: My blue II steel blade knife Jigane became very nice dull silver color, and Hagane became from semi-mirror finish to mirror finish. (Scale; 1 to 10, 1-3 give deep scratch marks to the steel, 3-5 is delete the 1-3 scratches, 5-8 makes the steel cloudy, 8-10 makes the steel semi-mirror finish or mirror finish)


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## fatboylim (Nov 9, 2016)

I have 2 Toyamas in Blue #2 and actually this could be ideal after the Khao Men!


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## Smashmasta (Nov 9, 2016)

fatboylim said:


> That is a big stone for the money and thanks Smashmaster. It does say medium high hard stone. Is that good for attempting Kasumi finish on a double bevelled edge?



This might be a bit easier. It's a bit softer. And the result on his test knife seem a bit more kasumi-like:
http://www.aframestokyo.com/hideriyama-awasedo-natural-whetstone-8796g-187961152.html

My blue II steel blade knife Jigane became cloudy grayish silver color, and Hagane became from little frosted silver color to semi-mirror finish. (Scale; 1 to 10, 1-3 give deep scratch marks to the steel, 3-5 is delete the 1-3 scratches, 5-8 makes the steel cloudy, 8-10 makes the steel semi-mirror finish or mirror finish)


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## fatboylim (Nov 9, 2016)

I just got an itonomonn but its stainless and not likely to see natural stones.


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## TheCaptain (Nov 9, 2016)

fatboylim said:


> +1 for the Khao Men. Regarding shipping to the UK, best to get two stones from Miles as the shipping is almost the same. I got the Orange Binsui 800-1000 which is excellent. I have no experience with the white binsui, but it seems to be popularly used after a 1000 synthetic.
> 
> A side note, any recommendations for a natural stone polisher after the Khao Men that is not crazy expensive?



You may want to email Miles with that question. He's going to be carrying a new grade of stone. From an email yesterday:

"I have a different grade of stone, I call Hlau Nam, it is a super hard finishing stone. It is Thai stone, but I put some raw stone on the boat and subcontracted the labor to a gem cutter in Colorado. If your interested, the costs might be like $100-$250 per stone. I will have to inspect quality when they arrive. You would use this following Khao Men. Should be here in Hawaii next week or so."

He's going to send me one as soon as he can. Now I have zero experience with these, but considering how much love there is for the Khao Men I figure it's something to look forward to.

Wish I knew how to post pictures (he emailed me one). It's a nice hard looking stone if you can judge such a thing by pictures. You want to wait a few months until I figure this out, I'll be happy to provide feedback :newhere:.


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## fatboylim (Nov 9, 2016)

Capt, that sounds great and definitely looking forward to a review. 

To the OP, I would be tempted to go for the Khao Men and possibly the Hlau Nam should it review well.


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## fatboylim (Nov 9, 2016)

Smashmaster, another good looking stone and thanks again. Decisions decisions!


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## Smashmasta (Nov 9, 2016)

Well both stones are a good value, and Takeshi at Aframes is helpful. Maxim at JNS is having a 20% sale on all stones. You could check there.


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## tgfencer (Nov 9, 2016)

Jon at JKI is also going to have new stones up soon, though not on sale. But depending on what you are looking for the prices are reasonable.


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## fatboylim (Nov 9, 2016)

Yeah Maxim does awesome stones, but generally pricier. He knows what to look for though!


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## cheflivengood (Nov 9, 2016)

The Hakka I am selling I have jumped to from a 800 diamond no problem. Its a harder hakka but much muddier than say a 3-3.5 lvl suita.


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## fatboylim (Nov 10, 2016)

That is a huge stone for the money. It's outside my budget though. Out of interest, what is the grit range and what kind of results did you get on Blue 2 knives?


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## Asteger (Nov 10, 2016)

Smashmasta said:


> Asteger, please clear your inbox



Fills up quick, doesn't it. Done!


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## cheflivengood (Nov 10, 2016)

fatboylim said:


> That is a huge stone for the money. It's outside my budget though. Out of interest, what is the grit range and what kind of results did you get on Blue 2 knives?



Id say 5-8k, edges will push cut after this stone with a little strop on papper. Blue 2 not sure but ive done from blue super - stainless and its great toothy edge


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## fatboylim (Nov 10, 2016)

Damn tempting. If only it was half the price/size. That thing will last beyond my lifetime of sharpening...


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