# S-Grind on a Budget?



## LucasFur (Oct 23, 2019)

Defiantly a unique inquiry. 
Looking for an 'expensive' grind, on a cheap steel/blade & handle.


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## m3ntal (Oct 24, 2019)

Hi! I'm in the market for a new chef's knife, and I'm hoping to buy something with an S-grind. However, I'm a total kitchen knife plebian: I want the knife in stainless, I want it to have a dishwasher-safe handle, and I want to be able to use my very aggressive butcher's steel to sharpen it (i.e. I don't want to feel like I've destroyed a national treasure if I treat it badly, which I plan to).

Does anyone have a lead on a 6-8" chef's knife with an S-grind in the sub $100 range?


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## Bert2368 (Oct 24, 2019)

Please take any "dishwasher safe" parameters out of consideration. REALLY. It is not pertinent to sharp knives at the present level of materials science.

You should never expose a good knife to such treatment, even if any knife alloy could take the chemical/heat/corrosion issues in stride, it would be physically destructive to cutting edges from being banged against whatever else is in the dishwasher (steel, glass, ceramics).


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## slickmamba (Oct 24, 2019)

Yes, if you get a fibrox, and a grinder, you can make one


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## daveb (Oct 24, 2019)

KIWI FTW!


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## m3ntal (Oct 24, 2019)

Exactly, which is why I want it to be cheap. I can put a very sharp edge on a knife in about 20 seconds with my butcher steel, and that's about as much time as I'm willing to invest. I don't wanna have a tea ceremony every time I use the most used tool in my kitchen.


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## m3ntal (Oct 24, 2019)

That's my last resort, lol. Do they have enough meat to them to grind hollows on both sides?


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## slickmamba (Oct 24, 2019)

I think you might have a misunderstanding of sharpening, and the job of the butcher steel. Hmm, the thickest knife you can find, being honest, not sure if the fibrox has enough meat, but you only really need the S grind on one side of the knife, so maybe. I can't say im familiar with thick knives


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## m3ntal (Oct 24, 2019)

Well, I call it a butcher's steel, but it's only shaped like a butcher steel. It is actually a sharpener and not just a "straightener" like a butcher's steel normally is. https://www.amazon.com/Smiths-3001-10-Inch-Diamond-Sharpening/dp/B000H38GGK


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## HRC_64 (Oct 24, 2019)

I think this is going to be a distraction to OP thread.

He's already asking for "hard to find"
...and youre adding "bad ideas" 

There's no harm in making a new thread


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## Bert2368 (Oct 24, 2019)

m3ntal said:


> It is actually a sharpener and not just a "straightener" like a butcher's steel is



Assuming you don't live under a bridge and enjoy snacking on goats?

A butcher's steel removes metal. Even a plain, flat, dead smooth hardened rod of steel or a smooth glass or ceramic rod removes metal when used as a butcher's steel is used.


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## Nikabrik (Oct 24, 2019)

@cheflivengood etches an etch grind into a Martell blank using ferric chloride. I'd really like to try that as a modification to a factory knife.

Other than that, I'm curious too.


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## ian (Oct 24, 2019)

Wow, interesting. Does that take forever? Do you keep circulating ferric chloride over it in a little river?


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## Nikabrik (Oct 24, 2019)

In printmaking, you wipe away the bubbles with a feather. In industrial chemical milling, you circulate the etchant. I'm guessing Kolter just sloshed the blade around like makers do when etching Damascus. My thinking is to try a model boat propeller, since they're cheap. I also want to try doing bevels via step or taper etching.

Based on data I've seen, I'd guess a depth rate of .005 mm/min. Strength and temperature of the etch, along with blade alloy would make a difference.


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## ian (Oct 24, 2019)

Probably a bad idea to put my immersion circulator in ferric chloride, right?


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## Nikabrik (Oct 24, 2019)

ian said:


> Probably a bad idea to put my immersion circulator in ferric chloride, right?



Can't say I didn't think of the same thing... I'm not gonna try it though.


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## Bert2368 (Oct 24, 2019)

Best to use a magnetic induction circulator outside the tank, you can get a USSR surplus one for cheap from any of the military surplus outlets around Vilnius.


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## Nikabrik (Oct 24, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Best to use a magnetic induction circulator outside the tank, you can get a USSR surplus one for cheap from any of the military surplus outlets around Vilnius.



Very cool, thanks!


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## m3ntal (Oct 24, 2019)

I can definitely see how my inquiry could be considered trolly in a forum of hobbyists, but I legit just want a cheap knife with an S-grind. Like stamped out of sheet metal, rubber handle, S-grind.

Honestly, if someone can recommend a cheap, thick knife, I'll take that too. I have quite a bit of seat-time piloting a Dremel.


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## M1k3 (Oct 25, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Please take any "dishwasher safe" parameters out of consideration. REALLY. It is not pertinent to sharp knives at the present level of materials science.
> 
> You should never expose a good knife to such treatment, even if any knife alloy could take the chemical/heat/corrosion issues in stride, it would be physically destructive to cutting edges from being banged against whatever else is in the dishwasher (steel, glass, ceramics).



Not to mention the possibly dissimilar metals inside.


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## RDalman (Oct 25, 2019)

There's no cheap production knife available with s-grind. And there's a bit of work involved making it. If you want a decently executed one, even put "qualified" in front. Like, pulling off a even half good looking functional one takes some effort, good tooling and practice/experience.

With that said and you're feeling frisky. Flap wheel on a angle grinder and try not to kill yourself


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## GoodMagic (Oct 25, 2019)

Has anyone really tried to etch a hollow in a blade? I imagine one could put a resist layer on all but the area to be etched. I’ve etched copper withferric chloride and it is very effective. Interesting idea.


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## ian (Oct 25, 2019)

m3ntal said:


> I can definitely see how my inquiry could be considered trolly in a forum of hobbyists, but I legit just want a cheap knife with an S-grind. Like stamped out of sheet metal, rubber handle, S-grind.
> 
> Honestly, if someone can recommend a cheap, thick knife, I'll take that too. I have quite a bit of seat-time piloting a Dremel.



Maybe some of the attitude comes from people not really believing that you’ll get the best out of an s-ground knife with that kind of treatment. A lot of the benefits of a good grind are secondary, ie you start appreciating them only after your knife is sharp and well maintained. Every trip to the dishwasher will hurt the edge, and the butcher’s steel probably isn’t going to give it an edge of the quality people here would appreciate, so it seems strange to then ask for an s-grind. You’ll get a better experience from buying *any* cheaper but good j-knife, treating it well, and learning how to use stones, probably.


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## HRC_64 (Oct 25, 2019)

IMHO, the S-grind is only useful if it outperforming convex grind, 
but convex grind is hard enough to find on the cheap.

Even good convex grind paired with western handles is hard,
many of them have been dumbed down over the years.


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## cheflivengood (Oct 26, 2019)

ian said:


> Wow, interesting. Does that take forever? Do you keep circulating ferric chloride over it in a little river?


I masked off the upper and lower blade face in clear nail polish then layers of blue tape. its a messy imperfect process that needs a lot of clean up with hand work, but is doable if you want it bad enough.


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## suntravel (Oct 27, 2019)

m3ntal said:


> Does anyone have a lead on a 6-8" chef's knife with an S-grind in the sub $100 range?



Burgvogel factoryoutlet for 35€ so 60€ left for a fast thinning and kind of s-grind. Finish is not top notch but they work well in a pro kitchen






















So my sugestion is to find cheap knifes with good steel and a knifemaker near by to regrind them. Works with used Globals also.

Regards

Uwe


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## Bert2368 (Oct 27, 2019)

Did you by chance get any pictures of the grinding process?

(These are a bit higher priced in USA)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Burgvogel-...000437&hash=item1cd9c92629:g:ZEcAAOSwDzVdHJ2z


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## suntravel (Oct 27, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Did you by chance get any pictures of the grinding process?



convex thinning on rotary platen






Fast hollow grinding for the s-shape using a jig with 60 grit belt






Foodrelase would be better with the hollow grind closer to the edge, but this way the knife has more lifespan for resharpenenig and maybe chip removal before touching the hollow part 

Regards

Uwe


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## Bert2368 (Oct 27, 2019)

suntravel said:


> convex thinning on rotary platen
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, that was quite educational for me.


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