# Help me find my ultimate Gyuto



## Buildn (Mar 20, 2014)

LOCATION
What country are you in? 

Australia

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?

Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

210 / 240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

No

What is your absolute maximum budget?

About $2.5k

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

Will be used for chopping vegies, slicing/trimming meat, no bones

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Furi Pro ( not shun )

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

Hammer grip / finger grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

Slice, push cut/chop, draw

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)


Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

I want the knife to be visually stunning, damascus, fancy handle the works. I really want to buy the tsukasa twisted damascus gyuto on JKI also like devin thomas damascus, HHH damascus, mizu honyaki aoko or shiroko, maybe even shigefusa kitaeji etc. Best of the best really. Problem is these are all so rare. But i really really want to make sure the knife fits the other performance and comfort categories before i outlay the money.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Looking for a much lighter knife, lighter handle better balance


Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Want a thinner knife that slices and chops extremely easy, better food release food sticks to the furi like glue and i hate it. LESS WEDGING. Will probably have knife sharpened before i first use it. It may also be used for slicing sashimi unless i also get a yanagiba.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

Edge retentenion is paramount, i have no sharpenening experience and if i buy an expensive knife i will be sending away to be sharpened 2 or 3 times a year.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Will be buying an end grain cutting board for this knife

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

No

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Not really, with such a nice knife i will probably leave it to the pro's, i may practice on my crap knives.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

Maybe

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I do have one other $200 stainless japanese style knife pictured here

http://www.australianbladeforums.com/vb4/showthread.php?12342-Kitchen-knife.&highlight=Kitchen+knife

It is very thin, light, sharp and nothing at all sticks to the blade, i absolutely love using it and it has inspired me to buy a high end, high performance kitchen knife to take pride of place in the kitchen.

I am a knife collector and would like this knife to be the show piece of my kitchen, something beautiful that brings me joy everytime i get it out to use it. It will not be used as a beater and if a carbon knife is suggested i will treat the knife properly. I prefer custom or handmade knives that will hold their value eg. Tsukasa Hinoura twisted damascus, mizu honyaki, that took the craftsmen years to perfect the techniques and an extreme amount of effort to make the individual knife BUT i want it to fit my comfort (lighter) and performance (thin, better food release, no wedging) requirements that is why i am asking here amongst people who have used these rare and beautiful knives. No point owning an amazing looking knife you hate using.


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## SpiceOfLife (Mar 20, 2014)

Buildn said:


> I am a knife collector and would like this knife to be the show piece of my kitchen, something beautiful that brings me joy everytime i get it out to use it. It will not be used as a beater and if a carbon knife is suggested i will treat the knife properly. I prefer custom or handmade knives that will hold their value eg. Tsukasa Hinoura twisted damascus, mizu honyaki, that took the craftsmen years to perfect the techniques and an extreme amount of effort to make the individual knife BUT i want it to fit my comfort (lighter) and performance (thin, better food release, no wedging) requirements that is why i am asking here amongst people who have used these rare and beautiful knives. No point owning an amazing looking knife you hate using.



One quick question, would you be willing to wait for a custom knife? They can run 1-2 years in some cases. You might be able to pick up a knife from these makers from retailers of their knives, like Epicurean Edge (they go quickly though and they're still pretty rare). If you're interested in a specific maker I'd suggest sending them a PM on here (except if you want a DT it's better to call his shop I've found) and begin a dialogue with them, they'll guide you in helping to design a knife specifically for you, and then you can get on their waiting list. 

Otherwise others should be able to help you with more mainstream knives. I only have a Tsukasa Hinoura and Shigefusa Kitaji that aren't custom knives. Shigs get a lot of love on here for their beauty and performance, and the Hinoura is amazing in person -and a great cutter for me with good food release from what I've experienced. But other than those 2 I don't have experience with anything other than custom.

- Steve


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## rami_m (Mar 20, 2014)

This is the one I am admiring at the moment http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=16932


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## Buildn (Mar 20, 2014)

SpiceOfLife said:


> One quick question, would you be willing to wait for a custom knife? They can run 1-2 years in some cases. You might be able to pick up a knife from these makers from retailers of their knives, like Epicurean Edge (they go quickly though and they're still pretty rare). If you're interested in a specific maker I'd suggest sending them a PM on here (except if you want a DT it's better to call his shop I've found) and begin a dialogue with them, they'll guide you in helping to design a knife specifically for you, and then you can get on their waiting list.



Not particularly keen to wait, and i would have to buy something to play with in the mean time anyhow:biggrin: so i have been scouring all the retailers sites to see what is available now, the wait would seem forever.



SpiceOfLife said:


> Otherwise others should be able to help you with more mainstream knives. I only have a Tsukasa Hinoura and Shigefusa Kitaji that aren't custom knives. Shigs get a lot of love on here for their beauty and performance, and the Hinoura is amazing in person -and a great cutter for me with good food release from what I've experienced. But other than those 2 I don't have experience with anything other than custom.
> 
> - Steve



Hinoura is at the top of my list at the moment i have found one at JKI and a couple more else where that seem to be available. Glad to hear that your hinoura cuts and releases well, what type do you have? Would you call it a thin knife (would it handle sashimi on occasion) and do you have any issues with wedging?


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## schanop (Mar 20, 2014)

Have you looked at Chef's armoury offering? They would be a perfect vendor to service you both for the actual knife and sharpening/maintenance service.

This Takeshi Saji R2 240mm gyuto fits a lot of your descriptions. And you can always ask for an upgrade handle and other bling bling.






http://www.chefsarmoury.com/kitchen...d/saji-r2-rosewood-240mm-gyuto/prod_1454.html


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## SpiceOfLife (Mar 20, 2014)

Buildn said:


> Not particularly keen to wait, and i would have to buy something to play with in the mean time anyhow:biggrin: so i have been scouring all the retailers sites to see what is available now, the wait would seem forever.
> 
> Hinoura is at the top of my list at the moment i have found one at JKI and a couple more else where that seem to be available. Glad to hear that your hinoura cuts and releases well, what type do you have? Would you call it a thin knife (would it handle sashimi on occasion) and do you have any issues with wedging?



The wait is definitely the hardest part haha. Sometimes retailers like WillC (Catcheside Cutlery -a vender here) make an occasional piece to sell outside of his wait list. That's luck though. You never know. And the B/S/T offers some options, but you have to be quick.

I have a 210 gyuto and a 90mm petty. They're not lasers IMHO, but they're not super heavy either. Good food release, and the damascus is even better in person. I don't have issues with food sticking or wedging, and the handle is very comfortable. Mine is an oval wa-style. Occasionally for sashimi, it might work. It's wicked sharp and stays that way, but the damascus adds slight texture, so it won't glide through delicate flesh as smoothly as a non-textured knife would (but this texture helps with stiction so it's a trade-off) and it might be a bit tall for sashimi. But I don't see why it couldn't work.

I also sent you a PM. Hope you don't mind!

- Steve


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## SpiceOfLife (Mar 20, 2014)

schanop said:


> Have you looked at Chef's armoury offering? They would be a perfect vendor to service you both for the actual knife and sharpening/maintenance service.



Buying from somewhere within Australia would also save on shipping and import duty. Another thing to consider.

-Steve


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## bamin (Mar 20, 2014)

Does anyone besides chefsarmoury sell that Saji wa-gyuto? Someone that ships to the US? Thanks?


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## Keith Sinclair (Mar 20, 2014)

Nothing cuts sashimi like a yanagiba.JKI has some quality medium priced yanagi.He also has some high end gyuto forged works of beauty.Jon is also a master freehand sharpener.


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## Von blewitt (Mar 20, 2014)

rami_m said:


> This is the one I am admiring at the moment http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=16932



That knife may be available from epicurian edge email Daniel or Drew and they can maybe help you out.

I also highly recommend emailing Michael Rader, he sometimes has knives available.


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## Buildn (Mar 20, 2014)

Thanks for the links and info guys, may need to grab a nice yanagiba too, just wondering if damascus HHH knives experience wedging and how they go with food release? If anyone owns one, and can provide some details about them, could pm me that would be awesome!


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## CoqaVin (Mar 20, 2014)

I have the AEB-L HHH knives and Randy makes me most comfortable western handles in my opinion...the knife performs great with little sticking at all...but the damascus are a whole different animal I presume


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## James (Mar 20, 2014)

bamin said:


> Does anyone besides chefsarmoury sell that Saji wa-gyuto? Someone that ships to the US? Thanks?



You can probably send an email to Koki at JCK or Mari at Korin and see if they can accommodate you as they both carry knives from saji. Otherwise, the site that shall not be named has some as well.


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## SpiceOfLife (Mar 20, 2014)

Buildn said:


> Thanks for the links and info guys, may need to grab a nice yanagiba too, just wondering if damascus HHH knives experience wedging and how they go with food release? If anyone owns one, and can provide some details about them, could pm me that would be awesome!



I think that's a wise move. Picking up a yanagi for sashimi would definitely be beneficial, but only if you would use it often for sashimi. You would have to decide if you would use it often enough to make it worth the investment to you. You could always get a gyuto first, then see what you think with regards to how it does with sashimi and go from there. It won't be terrible but a yanagi is a specialized knife so it would preform the best since slicing raw fish is its intended purpose.

- Steve


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## bamin (Mar 20, 2014)

Buildn said:


> Thanks for the links and info guys, may need to grab a nice yanagiba too, just wondering if damascus HHH knives experience wedging and how they go with food release? If anyone owns one, and can provide some details about them, could pm me that would be awesome!



If you want a collectible yanagiba how about one from Nenohi? A honyaki yanagiba made by Yoshikazu Ikeda is hard to beat. I also think I read somewhere once that blacksmiths have more pride in crafting traditional single bevel knives over double bevel knives ie. honyaki yanagiba > honyaki gyuto? Not sure if that is true though.



James said:


> You can probably send an email to Koki at JCK or Mari at Korin and see if they can accommodate you as they both carry knives from saji. Otherwise, the site that shall not be named has some as well.



Thanks for the tip!


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## Buildn (Mar 21, 2014)

bamin said:


> If you want a collectible yanagiba how about one from Nenohi? A honyaki yanagiba made by Yoshikazu Ikeda is hard to beat. I also think I read somewhere once that blacksmiths have more pride in crafting traditional single bevel knives over double bevel knives ie. honyaki yanagiba > honyaki gyuto? Not sure if that is true though.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip!



Yeah i will look into yanagiba's for sure in the future and i think a mizu honyaki aoko will be near the top of my list.

While still looking at gyuto's i have been doing a little more reading, and by some of the definitions i have come across, and weighing and measuring some of my knives, i think i need a laser with excellent food release.

Quote from CCLIN

"laser gyuto: spine width <2.5mm & weight< 200g , e.g Konosuke HD, Gesshin Ginga, Suisin Honyaki etc...
all-around gyuto: spine width above 2.6mm & weight between 200g~250g , e.g Kochi, yoshikane, Gengetsu etc...
workhorse gyuto: weight> 250g , e.g watanabe pro, Kato workhorse etc..."

I have found some really nice knives but they all weigh in at around 240grams+ and my favourite gyuto i own is only 157grams ( only a 210 though). So im basically looking for a top of the line wa gyuto with a fancy blade that fits the above quoted general definition of a laser with good food release, any suggestions?

Cheers Buildn


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## rami_m (Mar 21, 2014)

check this out, i know that at least one maker from this forum will be there  you can see the stuff first and judge for yourself.


http://www.cutlersexpo.com.au/


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## Buildn (Mar 21, 2014)

Im definitely going, im only a couple hours drive away and know a few people going from the australian tactical knife community. Its going to be a huge bonus now that ive taken an interest in kitchen knives, there will be so much more i will be keen to see. Better again that there will be people from this forum going and i will be able to see their work and products!


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## rami_m (Mar 21, 2014)

Will see you there


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## Geo87 (Mar 21, 2014)

Buildn said:


> So im basically looking for a top of the line wa gyuto with a fancy blade that fits the above quoted general definition of a laser with good food release, any suggestions?



Hopefully a more experienced member may chime in if such a blade exists... but I'm afraid lasers aren't very well known for good food release due to their flat grinds.

Having very little metal to play with behind the edge for things like convexing creates some pretty bad stiction with my kono hd. 

At work I love a laser for certain tasks and they really float through food but I like to have a workhorse gyuto as well for all round tasks. I don't think a laser is a very good all rounder...


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## mhlee (Mar 21, 2014)

Are you prepared for the care that these knives require?


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## EdipisReks (Mar 21, 2014)

If I had the money, I'd have Jon get me one of these.


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## insomniac (Mar 21, 2014)

I would consider the Gesshin Hide 240mm Mizu Honyaki Gyuto available the moment

If you care about the craftsman aspect,
Kenichi Shiraki as bladesmith + Yamamoto Hideaki as sharpener = win


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## brainsausage (Mar 21, 2014)

I agree with Geo. if you're looking for functional bling- pick up a Gesshin Kagekiyo from Jon at Japanese knife imports. They're a little too pretty to use in a pro kitchen, otherwise I'd have picked one up by now.


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## brainsausage (Mar 21, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> If I had the money, I'd have Jon get me one of these.



You'd have the money if you stopped buying a new gyuto every month:tease:


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## EdipisReks (Mar 21, 2014)

brainsausage said:


> You'd have the money if you stopped buying a new gyuto every month:tease:



That's true.


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## Keith Sinclair (Mar 21, 2014)

Geo87 said:


> Hopefully a more experienced member may chime in if such a blade exists... but I'm afraid lasers aren't very well known for good food release due to their flat grinds.
> 
> Having very little metal to play with behind the edge for things like convexing creates some pretty bad stiction with my kono hd.
> 
> At work I love a laser for certain tasks and they really float through food but I like to have a workhorse gyuto as well for all round tasks. I don't think a laser is a very good all rounder...



Agree Geo It is nice to have a Lazer in your quiver.It delivers with many precise cuts thru fragile coatings etc.where other knives don't do as well.

There are some fine high end knives that have thicker spines,tall bevels ,still thin behind the edge where it really counts,that are more all rounder blades that are excellent cutters.I have no experience with high end Damascus,but many here are,I would think some of these would be very good knives.


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## Buildn (Mar 22, 2014)

Thankyou so much for your input everyone, i really appreciate your ideas!! As it turns out, i am a very impatient person, especially when it comes to knives, so after following some advice via pm i bought a shigefusa 240 kasumi gyuto from JNS ive heard the jns versions are made thinner? Could be reading wrong!!! 3mm above the heel ? besides the lack of wow factor is this an appropriate choice?


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## schanop (Mar 22, 2014)

Definitely, and you still have another two grands to spend  If you want to see pure wow factor from Shigefusa, wait until you see western handle kitaeji 210/240mm gyuto with integral bolster.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 22, 2014)

schanop said:


> Definitely, and you still have another two grands to spend  If you want to see pure wow factor from Shigefusa, wait until you see western handle kitaeji 210/240mm gyuto with integral bolster.


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## SpiceOfLife (Mar 22, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


>




You have the 210 right? I have its little brother, the matching 180.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 22, 2014)

SpiceOfLife said:


> You have the 210 right? I have its little brother, the matching 180.



Yes, that's the 210.


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## Matus (Mar 22, 2014)

The western handled Shigs are just amazing ...


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## schanop (Mar 22, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> schanop said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely, and you still have another two grands to spend  If you want to see pure wow factor from Shigefusa, wait until you see western handle kitaeji 210/240mm gyuto with integral bolster.



Oh, yes, sir :thumbsup:


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## panda (Mar 22, 2014)

Mac ultimate, it has 'ultimate' in its name.


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## brainsausage (Mar 22, 2014)

Buildn said:


> Thankyou so much for your input everyone, i really appreciate your ideas!! As it turns out, i am a very impatient person, especially when it comes to knives, so after following some advice via pm i bought a shigefusa 240 kasumi gyuto from JNS ive heard the jns versions are made thinner? Could be reading wrong!!! 3mm above the heel ? besides the lack of wow factor is this an appropriate choice?



Besides the wow factor of the cutting experience already built into every Shig, you could pimp it out with a custom custom handle(by a variety of skilled craftsman, some of which are right here on this forum), and re-finished/polished by Jon at JKI.


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## Buildn (Mar 22, 2014)

If there were any kitaeji shig gyuto's available anywhere i would have definitely snapped it up, they look amazing, not a huge fan of western handles tho. Still extremely happy to jump in at ground level with the kasumi.



brainsausage said:


> Besides the wow factor of the cutting experience already built into every Shig, you could pimp it out with a custom custom handle(by a variety of skilled craftsman, some of which are right here on this forum), and re-finished/polished by Jon at JKI.



Im definitely keen to get a custom handle and when you say refinished, is it possible to get a full mirror finish on the entire blade of the kasumi shig? 

If you could get a mirror polish i know it would look good but would it be practical?


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## SpiceOfLife (Mar 22, 2014)

Congrats on the Shig! I'm glad you found something to fit what you were looking for :doublethumbsup:


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## Salty dog (Mar 22, 2014)

schanop said:


> Oh, yes, sir :thumbsup:




Sorry, it's almost grotesque.


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## brainsausage (Mar 22, 2014)

Buildn said:


> If there were any kitaeji shig gyuto's available anywhere i would have definitely snapped it up, they look amazing, not a huge fan of western handles tho. Still extremely happy to jump in at ground level with the kasumi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was thinking more of hazier Kasumi, but yes, you could get a mirror polish. Which is a true PITA to maintain. Scratches very easily.


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## Buildn (Mar 22, 2014)

SpiceOfLife said:


> Congrats on the Shig! I'm glad you found something to fit what you were looking for :doublethumbsup:



Thanks mate, i got a bit excited to see what the fuss is about and bought 2 shig's!!



brainsausage said:


> I was thinking more of hazier Kasumi, but yes, you could get a mirror polish. Which is a true PITA to maintain. Scratches very easily.



Thanks, i suspected it would be hard to keep looking nice.


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## EdipisReks (Mar 23, 2014)

I mirror-polished a Shig, once. Talk about sticktion city.


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## Buildn (Apr 5, 2014)

Just an update, i received my shig 240 kasumi wa gyuto from JNS in record time and put it straight to use, it is an awesome knife in every respect, here is a couple pics of its first use, just me a shig and a slab of bluefin tuna











I love the knife so much i have a 300 mm Shigefusa kitaeji yanagiba on the way aswell. Now all i want is a Shig deba and i will be one happy camper.


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## Erilyn75 (Apr 5, 2014)

Congrats on the Shig, it's a beauty! Glad you are enjoying it


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## schanop (Apr 5, 2014)

:EDance2: That sounds like Australia has got another Shig addicted.


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