# Edge Pro and Chosera advice



## rhymeswithoranj (May 27, 2015)

Morning all. First real post, after the obligatory introduction.

I have a couple of Konosuke HH gyutos (and a set of Globals - don't hate me). I use an Edge Pro with the standard stones from 120 - 1000 currently, and I'm finally at the stage where I can get a fantastic edge on the knives, and I feel like I'm winning the battle slowly against a wire edge. 

I've ordered a strop kit, which seemed to be the next logical sharpening tool. But I'm also interested in getting a couple or three Chosera stones.

So, simple question. Which ones do I need? Reading and research seems to point to something like a 1000, a 3000 or 5000, and maybe a 10000 to finish. I want to use them for sharpening and touch ups. Am I on the right track?


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## Pensacola Tiger (May 27, 2015)

Welcome to KKF!

Are you looking for Choceras cut for the Edge Pro, or are you looking for full size stones to start freehand sharpening?

Rick


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## rhymeswithoranj (May 27, 2015)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Welcome to KKF!
> 
> Are you looking for Choceras cut for the Edge Pro, or are you looking for full size stones to start freehand sharpening?
> 
> Rick



For the Edge Pro. I think I'll give freehand sharpening a whirl - but literally not for years. I've had the Edge Pro since I got the knives, and I feel I'm only now starting to get to grips with sharpening.


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## rhymeswithoranj (May 27, 2015)

And thank you for the welcome!


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## Pensacola Tiger (May 27, 2015)

rhymeswithoranj said:


> For the Edge Pro. I think I'll give freehand sharpening a whirl - but literally not for years. I've had the Edge Pro since I got the knives, and I feel I'm only now starting to get to grips with sharpening.



When I had my Edge Pro, I had a full set of both Choceras and Shapton Pros. I found that I used the 1k and 5k stones (of either set) to do all of my sharpening, unless I had to drop back to a coarser stone for a repair or to reset a bevel, then it was the Chocera 400 and the Shapton Pro 320. Although I had the Chocera 10K and the Shapton Pro 8K and 15K, I never used them after the initial "Wow, look how shiny the bevel is!" stage. The edges I got with those high grit stones were just not practical.

So, my answer is to get the Chocera 1K and 5K, and possibly the 400 if you foresee a use for it. 

Rick


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## tcmx3 (May 27, 2015)

you could add a 4-5k

to increase the quality of your results, there is an EXCELLENT thread on asymmetrical sharpening. I chose to go from a jig setup to freehand, but with thoughtfullness I think you could replicate the asymmetry with an EP


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## Mrmnms (May 27, 2015)

I would not go above 5 or 6 k either. Will Catchside once suggested I try a few trailing strokes on a 2k stone after a 6k to give a little tooth to the edge. Works well on some knives for me. Does anybody go higher than 6k regularly for gyutos? I find I'm tending to finish at lower grits for my own knives recently. Curious about what cutting tasks might benefit from higher grits than I'm used to for a gyuto.


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## rhymeswithoranj (May 27, 2015)

Thanks all. I'm of a mind to keep things as simple as possible, so I'll probably stick with the 1000 and 5000 for now. I did actually sharpen one of the knives to around an 80/20 edge, based on random internet advice, essentially! Same angle on both sides, though.


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## Benuser (May 27, 2015)

I own the 5k and it's the only buy I regret. A great progression would be 800, 3k, followed by the Naniwa Junpaku 8k aka snow-white for stropping/deburring.
The edges I've seen by EdgePRO users were invariably sharp as their shoulders, and poor cutters.


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## rhymeswithoranj (May 27, 2015)

Benuser said:


> I own the 5k and it's the only buy I regret. A great progression would be 800, 3k, followed by the Naniwa Junpaku 8k aka snow-white for stropping/deburring.
> The edges I've seen by EdgePRO users were invariably sharp as their shoulders, and poor cutters.



Can the 5000 be used in its own for touch ups? Or does that require the 3000? And I'm not sure what you mean by 'as sharp as their shoulders', sorry.


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## Benuser (May 28, 2015)

I use the 8k for touch ups, or any lower, if necessary. I start on my highest one and if I don't get an immediate result I go lower. What I don't like about the 5k is it being soft compared to the other Choseras and the Snow-white. I don't get the feedback I'm used to and it is very expensive. It's a good deburrer but I just have to guess how far I am. 
The shoulder is at the beginning of the bevel. With a jig system shoulders are very pronounced, what causes extra friction you generally don't want.


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## MontezumaBoy (May 28, 2015)

+1 I used to use this setup a lot and was always quite happy with it / now just hand sharpening but still look to this for other folks knives ...


Pensacola Tiger said:


> So, my answer is to get the Chocera 1K and 5K, and possibly the 400 if you foresee a use for it.
> 
> Rick


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## chinacats (May 28, 2015)

Benuser said:


> I use the 8k for touch ups, or any lower, if necessary. I start on my highest one and if I don't get an immediate result I go lower. What I don't like about the 5k is it being soft compared to the other Choseras and the Snow-white. I don't get the feedback I'm used to and it is very expensive. It's a good deburrer but I just have to guess how far I am.
> The shoulder is at the beginning of the bevel. With a jig system shoulders are very pronounced, what causes extra friction you generally don't want.



Agreed, if interested in upping your game, learn to sharpen by hand. It will improve your edges, keep your geometry in tune, and allow you to maintain the entire edge of your knife in the correct proportion. You can get all the help you need to learn to do it correctly.

By the way, welcome to the forum.


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## rhymeswithoranj (May 28, 2015)

Thanks folks. Really appreciate the replies and advice. Thanks for the heads up about shoulders and Edge Pros, too. Am I right in thinking that's more an aesthetic than practical consideration though?


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## rhymeswithoranj (May 28, 2015)

And yeah, I will learn to freehand one day. When all the kids have left home, maybe...


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## Benuser (May 28, 2015)

rhymeswithoranj said:


> Thanks folks. Really appreciate the replies and advice. Thanks for the heads up about shoulders and Edge Pros, too. Am I right in thinking that's more an aesthetic than practical consideration though?


It's certainly not about aesthetics. The straight bevel with a pronounced shoulder causes a lot of friction that the user will have to surmount.


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## Benuser (May 28, 2015)

If you want to ease that shoulder with the EP you get two new ones instead, known as facetting.


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## rhymeswithoranj (May 28, 2015)

Benuser said:


> It's certainly not about aesthetics. The straight bevel with a pronounced shoulder causes a lot of friction that the user will have to surmount.



Ok. That's interesting. So to surmount this with freehand, does it require exceptional technique, or does it just kinda happen? My understanding of freehand is that it's all about maintaining the angle.


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## Benuser (May 28, 2015)

Certainly maintaining an angle is important, but we are now speaking about the area behind the edge, where we raise the spine little by little and create a convex bevel. Until the very edge isn't reached that steady hand isn't that important. And if you've reached the very edge there is a simple way to know: did you raise a burr?


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## rhymeswithoranj (May 28, 2015)

Benuser said:


> Certainly maintaining an angle is important, but we are now speaking about the area behind the edge, where we raise the spine little by little and create a convex bevel. Until the very edge isn't reached that steady hand isn't that important. And if you've reached the very edge there is a simple way to know: did you raise a burr?


Cool. That makes sense. It also doesn't make freehand sharpening sound any easier - for me, anyhow. Not the most coordinated knife in the rack.


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## MadDurrr (May 28, 2015)

Can the pronounced shoulders on a bevel(created using a jig sharpener) really cause that much friction. My train of thought is that a Japanese knife that is already fairly thin, sharpened at a fairly acute angle, would make the amount of friction fairly negligible?


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## rhymeswithoranj (May 28, 2015)

MadDurrr said:


> Can the pronounced shoulders on a bevel(created using a jig sharpener) really cause that much friction. My train of thought is that a Japanese knife that is already fairly thin, sharpened at a fairly acute angle, would make the amount of friction fairly negligible?



OK.

So, I have actually taken some time to investigate this a wee bit.

I have two Konosuke HH guys - different lengths, but otherwise essentially identical. One is brand spanking new. One is around 18 months old. The old one has been sharpened on the Edge Pro. The new one still has the factory edge, with a couple of passes on my highest grit stone only.

As far as I can tell, they are both sharpened to the same sharpness.

So, I made soup. I chopped half the mirepoix with each knife.

And, yup, the new knife, in a real world cutting sense, clearly cuts easier and better. Now, I'm fully prepared to concede sharpening skills to the pros, but I spent a long time on the older knife, went right through the stones, 15 degree bevel, back on the stones if I felt the slightest hint of burr or wire, and it passed all the standard tests easily (paper etc.) Feels the same, too.

But has a very obvious, hard edged shoulder.

So screw it. I'm gonna learn to freehand.


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## tcmx3 (May 28, 2015)

freehand is easy to learn, hard to master.

just do your best to follow the factory bevel on your second knife, then repeat those angles on the old one.


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## Tall Dark and Swarfy (Jun 1, 2015)

*oranj<>* Not to discount your test, but there may be too many variables in play to nail it down to bevel shoulders. I'm not sure if Konosuke even freehands their knives during final sharpening. Benuser and some others state that using an EP creates bevel shoulders, and on thicker knives I will definitely agree. But on knives as thin behind the edge as the HH I cant believe that what little shoulder would be created could cause a palpable difference in cutting performance.

Be careful with your new Choseras. The EP stones cut like a marshmallow. Choseras (or Shaptons) really move the metal.

Cheers,

Rick


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## bkdc (Jun 1, 2015)

Watch the videos (using the little Allen wrench stopper trick) to make sure that the sharpening angles are the same with each stone. As the stones wear down (and you flatten them), you will have some stones that are thicker than others resulting in varying angles on the Edge Pro.

After repeated sharpening, it is easy to oversharpen an area near the heel (the founder of Edge Pro talks about this). I used to use the Edge Pro to set the primary bevel (sometimes not all the way to the edge) on more difficult knives and then always hand-sharpened a secondary or microbevel.


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## chinacats (Jun 1, 2015)

I really can't believe all the compromise that has to go on to sharpen semi-correctly with these things. Freehand is much simpler and takes very little time to learn--though as stated, much longer to master.

As to being able to get away with it longer on thin knives, sure but it's still happening, just less obvious until you've whacked the geometry.


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## Benuser (Jun 1, 2015)

So true. Great edges, poor cutters. Again.


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## bkdc (Jun 1, 2015)

You can only last so long with an Edge Pro or Wicked Edge. Eventually you have to thin the knife.


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## Tall Dark and Swarfy (Jun 1, 2015)

Well, it's a tool and like any tool it has strengths and weaknesses. To minimize the latter a user has to become somewhat more proficient than the advertising and basic videos let on. Certain modifications help also. 

Top notch folks like Pensacola Tiger have used both EP and freehand and ended up only freehanding. His comments on the EP carry a lot of weight with me. I started out freehanding 40 years ago and only moved to the EP a few years back. Although I was proud of my freehand edges, what I can accomplish on the EP is superior, both visually and performance wise. Perhaps OP will end up in the freehand camp? There's room in the pool for everyone.

Cheers,

Rick


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## rhymeswithoranj (Jun 1, 2015)

Good discussion. I'm in the process of figuring out which stones to grab, but I'm holding off on the choseras for the the Edge Pro at the moment. Think I'm gonna grab a Bester 1200 and a Suehiro Rika 5k: seem to be well regarded but not expensive. I actually feel like using the EP will help me with free handing: kinda takes the mystique away, and I have learnt how to feel for a burr. And how hard it is to get rid of a wire edge...

Anyone want to share advice on the best way to do this? I'm looking at getting a hard felt strop, which seems to be a common choice. I'd go the cork route, but wine in Australia is 99.9% under Stelvin caps!


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## rhymeswithoranj (Jun 1, 2015)

Ok. Belay that last post. Turns out Shapton Glass stones are available at real world prices in Australia, making them cheaper than the above options after shipping and currency conversion. 

Which stones do I need? I'm thinking 1K and 4K, or 2K and 6K. My main knives are Konosuke HHs, and I have a Fujiwara Nashiji arriving today. Which I haven't told the wife about yet. My first ever carbon blade.


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