# Beginner Questions



## Dragon_Stone (Jul 13, 2019)

Let me give you some history. Back 20 years ago I bought a 3 piece set of Wusthof knives. Since I've owned them they've never been sharpened. Recently I bought a set of inexpensive Chicago Cutlery steak knives (non serrated). That's when I realized how dull my Wusthofs had become. They still have a good edge because I've always taken care of them but anything delicate they're not so great. I'm using my steak knives for now because I can't go back to using dull blades.

So I began researching how to sharpen my Wusthofs and maintain my steak knives, that's when I stumbled upon Ryky Youtube Channel Burrfection. Man I love that guy, I've been binge watching all his videos, learning all about hand sharpening. Now I'm getting ready to buy some stones and I've narrowed it down to a few but have some questions before I pull the trigger.

Stones I'm Considering:

1. My first choice: Chosera 800 & 3000
Ryky and most everyone rave about Chosera. The main things I like it's great quality, excellent feedback, and the convenience of splash and go. There are two downsides: first they're expensive and the second more troubling I've seen many complaints about them cracking. I've read the thread here that soaking or uneven drying causes cracking. It's simple not to soak them but the drying part seems more tricky. I live in area that has extremes, hot humid summers and dry cold winters that I'd imagine could cause drying issues. Some people say turn them on their side, others say seal the sides, other people say they still cracked. It's hard to tell how prevalent the cracking issues really is. I would hate to invest all that money on a fussy stone that's likely to crack. The other thing I'd have to decided is whether to get the one that has the plastic base. Less expensive but not as compact for storage.

2. My second choice: Suehiro Cerax 1000 & Rika 5000
This also is a highly regarded combo, inexpensive (half the price of the Chosera) with no cracking complains. Only minor downside is it needs to be soaked for 20 minutes. I think that's a minor complaint.

Other alternatives: Shapton Glass. As a beginner I'm more inclined to get a stone that has better tactile feel but I've read many people here swear by them. And there is the King 1k/6k seems to be the gold standard value pick. As a beginner I probably should get this but I could see myself second guessing not getting the other ones.

Questions:

1. Are polishing stones necessary? Should I start out with only a sharpening stone like a 1k? I've seen Ryky sharpen and hone on a 1k. My only concern is if I touch up my knives on a regular basis I'll wear them down using a 1k.

2. Is it difficult to build and maintain your skill? I'm aware that even though I use my knives every day they're only for personal use. I can imagine after I become competent and sharpen my knives my stones won't get much use except for an occasion touch up. Even though I like the idea of owning high quality stones like the Chosera and I can afford them, I get the feeling that they're going to get very little use and it's a little crazy spending $160... I also understand while I'm obsessing over what stones to get, results are mostly due to skill.

Can anyone talk me out of spending a lot money on stones?


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## Elliot (Jul 13, 2019)

Hi there.

Couple things. Some people will agree with and some people wont.

1. Regarding Ryky. Though I don't dislike him as much as many of the member's of this forum do, I would recommend taking anything he says with a grain of salt. He is by no means an expert. Nor am I -- just to get that out of the way.

2. Chosera is fantastic. My first two stones were a Chosera 800 and a Chosera 3000. Though I didn't receive this advice from Ryky (or forum members), it was a great decision in my book. I, to this day, consider the Chosera 800 an A+ stone and I still use it quite a bit, despite having dozens of other stones, both synthetic and natural.

3. As to the question about polishing stones, the answer is that it is absolutely not necessary. Will it help? Yes. Necessary? No. The thing to remember if you have a one-stone sharpening routine is that you're going to need to work at de-burring. I would recommend you watch the videos Jon Broida from Japanese Knife Imports has out on YouTube as it relates to sharpening skill and technique in general. Countless of us learned from him.

Other quick hits.

- I use zero soaking stones. Nothing against them. Just not my jam.
- NEVER had an issue of cracking with the Chosera 3k. You could get the Morihei 4k as an alternative in a similar grit range. I can vouch for both those stones as absolutely excellent.
- Shapton glass are good stones. Nothing bad to say. Not a lot of stone provided for cost, but I have a few of them and have found all the ones 500 and up to be quite good.
- You do not need to spend a lot of money. Two stones and something to flatten the stones with is enough to keep your knives sharp for years and years and years. Less than $200 invested.
- There are cheaper options (combo stones) if you really want to save some cash. I never had any so will leave it to others to comment.

Good luck.


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## Michi (Jul 13, 2019)

For the soft steel used in Wüsthof knives, there is no point in going finer than 1000, in my opinion. The steel is so soft that the more refined apex you get from higher-grit stones will last for only a few cuts. (I've stopped using higher grits on my Wüsthofs for that reason. They all end up at the same level of sharpness very quickly, whether I finish them on a 1000 or a 5000 stone.)

If you want a good budget splash and go, a Shapton Pro 1000 is all you'll ever need for those knives. Shapton Glass 1000 is nice, too—take whichever appeals to you more. If you feel you really must have a higher grit (or you want to add Japanese knives to your set), a Shapton Glass 3000 or 4000, or a Shapton Pro 4000 will make a nice addition. I find a 3000 stone perfect for doing quick touch-ups on my Japanese knives. For the Wüsthofs, I just use a honing steel until the edge won't come back again, and then go back to the 1000. It'll take a long time before you will wear down your knives that way, so I wouldn't worry about this.

I wouldn't agonise over the brand of stone too much. The Naniwa Chosera/Pro stones have an excellent reputation, but they won't magically change the quality of your edge. (That's determined by your technique, not the stone.) And they are expensive.

The Suehiros are very nice too but, as you say, you have to soak them for 10–15 minutes first.

To me, the biggest bang for the buck for German knives is a Shapton Pro 1000. Quick and easy, and it will last forever. And it really is the only stone you need for soft steel knives, unless you have something that is ultra-blunt or has chips. In that case, a 320 stone will get them restored quicker. But, once you have used the 320, unless you damage the knives again or neglect them, that stone will just sit on a shelf and accumulate dust…

One thing that I find useful (and cheap) is a strop with green chromium oxide compound. It works well to bring a slightly dull edge back to razor sharp, and you can use it for both German and Japanese knives. (A steel honing rod is too soft for Japanese knives.) Or strop on cardboard or newspaper at zero cost.

For very good sharpening videos, check out Jon Broida's videos at japaneseknifeimports.com, and Peter Nowlan's videos at knifeplanet.com.


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## slickmamba (Jul 13, 2019)

I own the choseras and shapton pros do just as well for almost half the cost. There are more recommendations beyond ryky, all of his recommendations are "sponsored" so I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt, I posted about it a while ago. I haven't had any cracking issues with the 3000, but a few people have. Most of the cracking i see is from the 5000 and 10000. Any stone will sharpen a knife, most of it is preference on if you want a softer stone or a harder stone, and a s&g or soaker.

You will learn alot about sharpening and maintaining stones on a king, and it will sharpen basically all.

I'd skip the cerax and rika 5k if you don't want soakers, I only tried the rika and it was pretty good. Some stones can be permasoaked, so its not a big deal tbh.

edit: Forgot to talk about your knives. Your whustoffs will do fine with just a medium grit stone(800-2000ish) will be more than enough. Shapton pro 1000 would be a great fit, super hard, splash and go, easy sharpening and cleanup.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 13, 2019)

+ 1 on Shapton PRO # 1000 for your needs. Not too expensive, easy to use, pretty fast and gives a nice working edge on softer steels.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 13, 2019)

Yes you do not need to spend a lot on a couple stones. Getting a knife upgrade is some more coin. At least one good Japanese gyuto. You can use your Wusthof knives for beater duties & use a Ferrari for most of your cutting. San Mai carbon core stainless clad knives give the advantages of quality carbon steel with out the upkeep.

Agree the shapton pro is a good choice. Very wear resistant, splash & go. I like the gesshin soakers for my carbon knives, keep them perma soaked in a snap lid plastic container. The soakers have more feedback when sharpening, however the shapton pro will get your knives sharp that's what counts.


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## Prgcook (Jul 13, 2019)

I like either a shap glass 500 or an iminishi latte 400 for low grit then the big Green brick nwania to finish up I wouldn't go above 2 to 3 k on whustofs


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 13, 2019)

Elliot said:


> 1. Regarding Ryky. Though I don't dislike him as much as many of the member's of this forum do, I would recommend taking anything he says with a grain of salt. He is by no means an expert. Nor am I -- just to get that out of the way.



Thx for the heads up. There are always conflicts on all forums or for that matter in any group setting . My impression of Ryky (just from watching his videos). He strikes me as likeable, genuine, but also dedicated and business savvy. I suspected he had sponsors, but you don't build a successful Youtube channel like that without commercial ties. A product that is sponsored can also be a good but I agree that it muddies the water.



> 2. Chosera is fantastic. My first two stones were a Chosera 800 and a Chosera 3000. Though I didn't receive this advice from Ryky (or forum members), it was a great decision in my book. I, to this day, consider the Chosera 800 an A+ stone and I still use it quite a bit, despite having dozens of other stones, both synthetic and natural.


case in point



> 3. As to the question about polishing stones, the answer is that it is absolutely not necessary. Will it help? Yes. Necessary? No. The thing to remember if you have a one-stone sharpening routine is that you're going to need to work at de-burring. I would recommend you watch the videos Jon Broida from Japanese Knife Imports has out on YouTube as it relates to sharpening skill and technique in general. Countless of us learned from him.


I'll have to check him out


> - I use zero soaking stones. Nothing against them. Just not my jam.
> - NEVER had an issue of cracking with the Chosera 3k. You could get the Morihei 4k as an alternative in a similar grit range. I can vouch for both those stones as absolutely excellent.
> - Shapton glass are good stones. Nothing bad to say. Not a lot of stone provided for cost, but I have a few of them and have found all the ones 500 and up to be quite good.
> - You do not need to spend a lot of money. Two stones and something to flatten the stones with is enough to keep your knives sharp for years and years and years. Less than $200 invested.
> ...


Reading what others said too I'd agree. One 1k stone would be best. I'll take a look at Shapton. Thanks for your advice


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 13, 2019)

Michi said:


> For the soft steel used in Wüsthof knives, there is no point in going finer than 1000, in my opinion. The steel is so soft that the more refined apex you get from higher-grit stones will last for only a few cuts. (I've stopped using higher grits on my Wüsthofs for that reason. They all end up at the same level of sharpness very quickly, whether I finish them on a 1000 or a 5000 stone.)
> 
> If you want a good budget splash and go, a Shapton Pro 1000 is all you'll ever need for those knives. Shapton Glass 1000 is nice, too—take whichever appeals to you more. If you feel you really must have a higher grit (or you want to add Japanese knives to your set), a Shapton Glass 3000 or 4000, or a Shapton Pro 4000 will make a nice addition. I find a 3000 stone perfect for doing quick touch-ups on my Japanese knives. For the Wüsthofs, I just use a honing steel until the edge won't come back again, and then go back to the 1000. It'll take a long time before you will wear down your knives that way, so I wouldn't worry about this.
> 
> ...


I didn't realize that Wusthof was considered "soft" steel but I never really researched it, I bought them because of the quality name. But yes I agree 1k stone makes sense. I just assumed that sharpening worked like wood working ie gradually work you way up in grit.

To everyone else who replied thanks for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated.


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## daveb (Jul 13, 2019)

I like the results I get on German and Vnox genre knives with a progression of Shapton Pro 1000 then finish on the 2000. The 2K adds a refinement and is at the upper limit of what I would use on soft steel.

As to Rikky Ticky, the kid knows little of what he is doing and has absolutely no, none, nada, credibility with me. Time watching his "show" is time that could be spent learning from someone that does know something. Dislike is too strong a word - he's just noise.


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## Michi (Jul 13, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> didn't realize that Wusthof was considered "soft" steel but I never really researched it


German knives typically have a hardness around 57 on the Rockwell C scale. Japanese knives are typically at 62 HRC and higher. Some powdered metallurgy steels, such as HAP-40, can get insanely hard, up to HRC 68.

The softer German steel is great for rougher work because it can take a lot of punishment without chipping. It deforms rather than pieces of it breaking off. The harder Japanese steels can take a more acute edge and retain that edge for longer, but you have to be more careful with them because, under too much pressure or sideways torque, little chips (or big ones) break off the edge. Also, a German knife will typically survive getting dropped onto a hard floor, whereas, if that happens with a Japanese one, you may end up being seriously disappointed. Both kinds of steel have their uses and disadvantages—pick your poison.

Myself, I'm not about to throw out my German knives just because they are made from softer steel than my Japanese ones…


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 13, 2019)

Michi said:


> German knives typically have a hardness around 57 on the Rockwell C scale. Japanese knives are typically at 62 HRC and higher. Some powdered metallurgy steels, such as HAP-40, can get insanely hard, up to HRC 68.
> 
> The softer German steel is great for rougher work because it can take a lot of punishment without chipping. It deforms rather than pieces of it breaking off. The harder Japanese steels can take a more acute edge and retain that edge for longer, but you have to be more careful with them because, under too much pressure or sideways torque, little chips (or big ones) break off the edge. Also, a German knife will typically survive getting dropped onto a hard floor, whereas, if that happens with a Japanese one, you may end up being seriously disappointed. Both kinds of steel have their uses and disadvantages—pick your poison.
> 
> Myself, I'm not about throw out my German knives just because they are made from softer steel than my Japanese ones…


I understand now. Yes I'd agree after 20 years I only have 2 small nicks

Btw, I'm going to get the Shapton Pro 1000, $34. Good price and does everything I need.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 14, 2019)

I’ll echo Michi: softer steels have their advantages, and there is (absolutely) no reason to throw them out (or even, IMO, to replace them). I enjoy using my German and French knives. That is what is important.


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## M1k3 (Jul 14, 2019)

I own both Japanese and German and sharpen co-workers knives. Wusthof I'd stop at 2k. Shapton Pro/Kuromaku 1k or 2k would be a great, not expensive option. Splash and go, slow to dish, slow to load, if at all. Chosera 800 would be good option to stop at also. Or any other millions of suggestions.


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## gman (Jul 15, 2019)

800 or 1k is a good place to start for general maintenance, if they haven't been sharpened in 20 years, then the first time on the stones is going to be a lot of work, so you might consider either getting a 400 or sending them off to a pro sharpener the first time, then maintaining them yourself after that.


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 15, 2019)

gman said:


> 800 or 1k is a good place to start for general maintenance, if they haven't been sharpened in 20 years, then the first time on the stones is going to be a lot of work, so you might consider either getting a 400 or sending them off to a pro sharpener the first time, then maintaining them yourself after that.


So I place the order for the 1k, it should be fine even though they are old, they have been well taken care of, and I've used a honing rod on them too. Funny I was tempted to get the 1,500 stone because I've read the 1k performs like a 800. I uploaded pictures












Wusthof set



__ Dragon_Stone
__ Jul 13, 2019


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## gman (Jul 15, 2019)

good luck dealing with that bolster


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## playero (Jul 15, 2019)

Check for knicks since it has been a long time. You need a lower number since the 400 will do the job faster than the 800. That’s without any hard pressure. Will use a 2000-3000 and leather strap. After this maybe every two weeks or so use a ceramic rod and leather strap. I do that with mine. You will enjoy the wustoff for a long time.


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## MarkC (Jul 16, 2019)

Couple of comments. The 1000 and finish with a 2000 is very good advice. You will want to take your time and I might even suggest picking up an inexpensive Henkel or something similar to practice your angles and learn to create a burr. It will also help you avoid scratching the finish on your main knives if that matters to you as you learn. Finally why you don't need it, I would at some point get a higher grit stone just so you can feel the difference a more polished edge feel like. The Rika actually is an inexpensive one and the materials that come with it say to only soak it for 5 minutes which you can easily do why you are working your progression.


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## osakajoe (Jul 16, 2019)

MarkC said:


> Couple of comments. The 1000 and finish with a 2000 is very good advice



Ignore this. Going from 1,000 just up to 2,000 is too close and not worth purchasing two of basically the same medium stone. 

Go with what others have said to on sharpening a cheaper Henkel or wustof knife. Finish and maintain on a 1,000 because Michi summed it up well. If you need to repair or thin also pair it with a rougher stone like a 400 grit.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 16, 2019)

I've sharpened quite a few Wusthof chef knives. I find Victorinox blades easier to sharpen. If you learn to put a decent edge on a Wusthof you can sharpen a quality blade with ease. You have just used a rod for 20 yrs. would be surprised if they cut at all. Those blunt edges will need some thinning. Hang around this forum some more, people are more than willing to help.

If you think your steak knives are better until you sharpen your Wusthof you need to think about getting a better blade. As said you can still use your Wussy's. I'm not talking down to you, many think full bolster German stainless means quality. Why else would they sell them in culinary stores & Macy's. They are mostly sold for home use. Do not see many full bolstered blades in commercial kitchens. Victorinox is used, but you see more cooks using Japanese knives these days.

You can get a carbon core stainless clad quality Japanese blade for around 100.00. I like the idea of introducing carbon steel to let someone experience ease of sharpening & razor edges. One of my favorite bang for the buck knives is Blue Moon 210mm blue#2 carbon core with stainless nashiji cladding. 98.00 for the 210mm.( Japanese Chef Knives) tho he may be out of stock last I looked.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 16, 2019)

I just looked he restocked the 210mm & raised the price a little to 112.00 still a steal for that knife.


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## MarkC (Jul 16, 2019)

Keith Sinclair said:


> I've sharpened quite a few Wusthof chef knives. I find Victorinox blades easier to sharpen. If you learn to put a decent edge on a Wusthof you can sharpen a quality blade with ease. You have just used a rod for 20 yrs. would be surprised if they cut at all. Those blunt edges will need some thinning. Hang around this forum some more, people are more than willing to help.
> 
> If you think your steak knives are better until you sharpen your Wusthof you need to think about getting a better blade. As said you can still use your Wussy's. I'm not talking down to you, many think full bolster German stainless means quality. Why else would they sell them in culinary stores & Macy's. They are mostly sold for home use. Do not see many full bolstered blades in commercial kitchens. Victorinox is used, but you see more cooks using Japanese knives these days.
> 
> You can get a carbon core stainless clad quality Japanese blade for around 100.00. I like the idea of introducing carbon steel to let someone experience ease of sharpening & razor edges. One of my favorite bang for the buck knives is Blue Moon 210mm blue#2 carbon core with stainless nashiji cladding. 98.00 for the 210mm.( Japanese Chef Knives) tho he may be out of stock last I looked.


This is really good advice. If you only have worked with German steel or inexpensive stainless knives, you will be amazed at the difference working with carbon steel knives. It is easier to feel a burr and get to a sharper edge. Lots of good advice here.


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## MrHiggins (Jul 16, 2019)

MarkC said:


> This is really good advice. If you only have worked with German steel or inexpensive stainless knives, you will be amazed at the difference working with carbon steel knives. It is easier to feel a burr and get to a sharper edge. Lots of good advice here.


I don't necessarily want to pile on here, but the difference between a 20 year old, never sharpened German knife, and a new Japanese-style knife will be like upgrading your 1998 Toyota Camry for a 2019 BMW M3. 

I've loved cooking for my entire adult life and thought I knew what a sharp knife was (I had a Global gyuto for 15 years that I touched up on a steel), until I bought a Japanese knife (sukenari HAP40) about 2 years ago. Welcome to an entirely new world. It's totally different.

While Western knives have their place, you should treat yourself to a Japanese knife (if you can drop $100-$200). You'll thank yourself over and over. I did, anyway.

And also watch Jon Broida's videos. 

You've already bought the only stone you'll ever really need, even for Japanese knives. I love the edge a 1000 grit stone leaves on even my fanciest knives, although you can go higher if you want.


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## krx927 (Jul 17, 2019)

MrHiggins said:


> I don't necessarily want to pile on here, but the difference between a 20 year old, never sharpened German knife, and a new Japanese-style knife will be like upgrading your 1998 Toyota Camry for a 2019 BMW M3.
> 
> I've loved cooking for my entire adult life and thought I knew what a sharp knife was (I had a Global gyuto for 15 years that I touched up on a steel), until I bought a Japanese knife (sukenari HAP40) about 2 years ago. Welcome to an entirely new world. It's totally different.
> 
> ...




I like you analogy to M3! Just love this car!


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 17, 2019)

I never knew what a bolster was and that my Wusthofs had them until now. I can see what you mean it makes it harder to sharpen that end. I can’t complain too much because it has kept my fingers safe all these years.

As far as the steak knives, I like them for two reasons.

I realize I enjoy their smaller size and thinner blade. I find most of my food prep is small amounts of delicate fruits and vegetables. I find my 8” chef knife on the big/ heavy side.

Second I’ve noticed the steak knives edge is sharper and toothier which seems to help cut smooth skin fruits and veggies like tomatoes.

All that being said it be crazy to abandon my Wusthofs for steak knives. It is interesting when you get a new knife you re-evaluate what you like. Getting a Japanese knife would be intriguing. Not really essential but fun and the art of it.

A lot of good advice here. My game plan is practice hand sharpening on an inexpensive knife, move up to my Wusthofs, then who knows a Japanese knife and I’ll officially become a knife geek. I’d love to get a Hattori Hanzō 

My stone will be coming in on the 26th. Seems like a life time.


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 17, 2019)

MrHiggins said:


> I don't necessarily want to pile on here, but the difference between a 20 year old, never sharpened German knife, and a new Japanese-style knife will be like upgrading your 1998 Toyota Camry for a 2019 BMW M3.
> 
> I've loved cooking for my entire adult life and thought I knew what a sharp knife was (I had a Global gyuto for 15 years that I touched up on a steel), until I bought a Japanese knife (sukenari HAP40) about 2 years ago. Welcome to an entirely new world. It's totally different.
> 
> ...


I watched a few of Peter Nolan videos. I can see what people were saying about Ryke he’s more a showman and businessman while these other people really teach and do it for pleasure not money or fame.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 18, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> I watched a few of Peter Nolan videos. I can see what people were saying about Ryke he’s more a showman and businessman while these other people really teach and do it for pleasure not money or fame.



Burrfection has received enough criticism on KKF (in my opinion it’s started to get tiresome and old), so - with focus on the Knife planet vids - one thing I really like about the Nowlan vids is how well he describes finger positioning on the blade, and the importance of pressure. Following his advice I really improved my technique and decreased my overall sharpening time to a third of what I did previously (and with better results).


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 18, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> one thing I really like about the Nowlan vids is how well he describes finger positioning on the blade, and the importance of pressure. Following his advice I really improved my technique and decreased my overall sharpening time to a third of what I did previously (and with better results).


I agree he achieves the burr in fewer passes than I’ve seen by others and I like his description of his use of pressure with his fingers.


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## inferno (Jul 18, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> Let me give you some history. Back 20 years ago I bought a 3 piece set of Wusthof knives. Since I've owned them they've never been sharpened. Recently I bought a set of inexpensive Chicago Cutlery steak knives (non serrated). That's when I realized how dull my Wusthofs had become. They still have a good edge because I've always taken care of them but anything delicate they're not so great. I'm using my steak knives for now because I can't go back to using dull blades.
> 
> So I began researching how to sharpen my Wusthofs and maintain my steak knives, that's when I stumbled upon Ryky Youtube Channel Burrfection. Man I love that guy, I've been binge watching all his videos, learning all about hand sharpening. Now I'm getting ready to buy some stones and I've narrowed it down to a few but have some questions before I pull the trigger.
> 
> ...



Hi I'd like to start with saying that a 1k may not be the only thing you need. as opposed to what most people here say. Personally I never stop at 1k. 2k and 3k yes but 1k to me feels like a fine saw. and i have 6 different 1k stones.

the 1k is the baseline stone. if you dont work with chipped blades or need to do thinning operations, you dont need a lower grit than 1k. 
and if you need to work on chipped blades or do serious thinning you want to lowest grit/fastest stones you can buy because this can take several hours with a 1k. 
then you wanna look into maybe a 220 or so. 

as to whether a 1k and 2k is a good combo? yes it is imo. I have the shapton pro1k and 2k glued together, because this makes a good combo on low price knives (lets say under 100€$£), the 1k is coarse like 7-800 grit, and the 2k is the finishing stone. it makes the edge at least twice as sharp. very good combo imo. actually my best combo for cheap knives.

if you want good beginner combo i think either the 500glass, 1k glass, 1k pro combined with the 3k glass is hard to beat. But personally I think one needs everything between 500 and 4k for different steels.


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 19, 2019)

What you said makes sense, getting a coarse, medium and fine stone. I might eventually do that once I discover if I’m any good at hand sharpening and that I enjoy it.

Reminds me when I thought it be cool to shave with a straight razor. After a month I discovered it wasn’t for me and sold my equipment and switched to safety razors and been happy ever since.

In my experience many things look easy watching someone do it until you try it. I don’t give up easy so I’m hoping in a few weeks practice I can make a decent edge.

My knives despite being old, don’t have nicks and the 1k should be fine to start.

I’m a little concerned that the bolster will make it difficult to sharpen the heel.


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## stringer (Jul 19, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> What you said makes sense, getting a coarse, medium and fine stone. I might eventually do that once I discover if I’m any good at hand sharpening and that I enjoy it.
> 
> Reminds me when I thought it be cool to shave with a straight razor. After a month I discovered it wasn’t for me and sold my equipment and switched to safety razors and been happy ever since.
> 
> ...



If you are comfortable with a Dremel, an angle grinder, bench grinder. Even a metal file or some sandpaper will do the trick. You can just take off a few mm at the heel. Just enough to move it out of the way for a few decades. You could try it with a small one first. But basically cut at a 45 like this. 





Another approach is to thin the bevel and then blend it into the edge. This looks nicer but takes more time and skill. I've been working on this one mostly just with sandpaper for a very long time and it's still not quite where I want it.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 19, 2019)

Wow @stringer - that is quite a project. Looks cool!


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## Lotmom (Jul 19, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> Let me give you some history. Back 20 years ago I bought a 3 piece set of Wusthof knives. Since I've owned them they've never been sharpened. Recently I bought a set of inexpensive Chicago Cutlery steak knives (non serrated). That's when I realized how dull my Wusthofs had become. They still have a good edge because I've always taken care of them but anything delicate they're not so great. I'm using my steak knives for now because I can't go back to using dull blades.
> 
> So I began researching how to sharpen my Wusthofs and maintain my steak knives, that's when I stumbled upon Ryky Youtube Channel Burrfection. Man I love that guy, I've been binge watching all his videos, learning all about hand sharpening. Now I'm getting ready to buy some stones and I've narrowed it down to a few but have some questions before I pull the trigger.
> 
> ...


I've been running a sharpening business for the past 5 or so years and in order to maximise profit, I've had to find the best stone for the best price.

I 100% swear by the Suehiro SKG-24. It's about $50 CAD for a fullsize stone, has great feedback, And it is just the perfect amount of Hard vs Soft vs Speed.
This is a 1000/3000 combo stone, but each side is about 1" thick, so you wont be wearing them down anytime soon. Just so you know, I'm not sponsored, I just really love this stone.
If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to give you a demonstration at some point.


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 19, 2019)

stringer said:


> If you are comfortable with a Dremel, an angle grinder, bench grinder. Even a metal file or some sandpaper will do the trick. You can just take off a few mm at the heel. Just enough to move it out of the way for a few decades. You could try it with a small one first. But basically cut at a 45 like this.
> 
> View attachment 56992
> 
> ...


Thanks that’s a good solution


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 19, 2019)

Lotmom said:


> I've been running a sharpening business for the past 5 or so years and in order to maximise profit, I've had to find the best stone for the best price.
> 
> I 100% swear by the Suehiro SKG-24. It's about $50 CAD for a fullsize stone, has great feedback, And it is just the perfect amount of Hard vs Soft vs Speed.
> This is a 1000/3000 combo stone, but each side is about 1" thick, so you wont be wearing them down anytime soon. Just so you know, I'm not sponsored, I just really love this stone.
> If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to give you a demonstration at some point.


Unfortunately I’ve already purchased a stone. Thanks for the suggestion sounds like it’s great


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## Lotmom (Jul 19, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> Unfortunately I’ve already purchased a stone. Thanks for the suggestion sounds like it’s great


Ah, Which one did you end up choosing?
I actually have a second suehiro still in its packaging for when my current one eventually dies


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 19, 2019)

Lotmom said:


> Ah, Which one did you end up choosing?


Shapton Pro 1k
Honestly when you’re a beginner with no experience you can be easily swayed, I must have changed my mind a dozen times based on reviews and options. I just had to make a decision so I could move on to other things.


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## Lotmom (Jul 19, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> Shapton Pro 1k
> Honestly when you’re a beginner with no experience you can be easily swayed, I must have changed my mind a dozen times based on reviewers and options. I just had to make a decision so I could move on to other things.


Definitely! The Shapton won't disappoint.


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## Michi (Jul 19, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> Shapton Pro 1k
> Honestly when you’re a beginner with no experience you can be easily swayed, I must have changed my mind a dozen times based on reviews and options. I just had to make a decision so I could move on to other things.


Just relax. It's a sharpening stone, of all things, not the future of your wife and children…

Pretty much any of the brand-name synthetics will do a decent job. When people argue about Naniwa vs Suehiro, they are arguing about minutiae. We are in 95th+ percentile territory here—you can get a knife razor sharp on a bloody brick, after all.

It's easy to overthink things. Just use the stone and enjoy your sharp knives. And keep in mind that the point of a kitchen knife is to help you make nice meals; arguing the merits of this stone vs that stone on a forum won't get you any closer to that.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 19, 2019)

Michi said:


> Just relax. It's a sharpening stone, of all things, not the future of your wife and children…



I tend to think of sharpening as brain surgery - minus the brain and the surgery.


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## Dragon_Stone (Jul 19, 2019)

Michi said:


> Just relax. It's a sharpening stone, of all things, not the future of your wife and children….


+


Carl Kotte said:


> I tend to think of sharpening as brain surgery - minus the brain and the surgery.


lol
You guys ever tried straight razor? Now that’s surgery if you’re not careful


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 19, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> +
> 
> lol
> You guys ever tried straight razor? Now that’s surgery if you’re not careful



I haven’t! That’s too much rocket science for me [emoji17]


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## stringer (Jul 19, 2019)

Here's a couple more pictures of bolster options. The first two are Sabatier. The little paring knife is a Wusthoff

This one is cut at a 45







This one is blended into the edge






This paring knife demonstrates how not to do this with a belt sander. I'm happy with my work trimming the bolster. There was severe recurve and that's all taken care of. But I also took a chunk out of the edge about an inch from the heel bring careless.


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## MarkC (Jul 19, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> What you said makes sense, getting a coarse, medium and fine stone. I might eventually do that once I discover if I’m any good at hand sharpening and that I enjoy it.
> 
> Reminds me when I thought it be cool to shave with a straight razor. After a month I discovered it wasn’t for me and sold my equipment and switched to safety razors and been happy ever since.
> 
> ...


If you are following the Knife Planet videos, follow the same approach he suggests when you are sharpening the back side where you turn the knife perpendicular to the stone when you are sharpening that last bottom area.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 20, 2019)

I tried a straight razor and went back to a safety razor after cutting myself, thought was getting pretty good with the straight. I like the double edge Feather blades from Japan they are very sharp. 

Once your knives are sharp touching them up on the Shapton IK will work. Now they are pretty dull so it will take time on the IK stone to get the edges to meet. You do not want the angles too high trying to get an edge. 

I sharpen a fair number of peoples home knives, most are very dull and some are damaged. I thin the edges on a 1x42 belt sander & bucket of water to keep them cool then finish them up on a stone. If not sharpening a lot of knives a coarse stone will thin faster than a medium. Have used a Dremel to remove bolsters on vintage Sabatier. If you have one already you can try it, if not you can still use the wusthof with the bolster. 

Your knives have no chips or broken tips that means you take pretty good care of them, even more reason to get a nice Japanese knife


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## Dragon_Stone (Aug 2, 2019)

I’m having problems with the order I placed on Amazon. A week after purchasing I got a message from Amazon there was no shipping info. After two weeks I messaged the seller twice for a status update with no response. It’s disappointing after waiting all this time to have to cancel the order repeat the process with another retailer.


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## Nemo (Aug 2, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> I’m having problems with the order I placed on Amazon. A week after purchasing I got a message from Amazon there was no shipping info. After two weeks I messaged the seller twice for a status update with no response. It’s disappointing after waiting all this time to have to cancel the order repeat the process with another retailer.


It is often said on this forum that one should buy a knife made by a repeutable knifemaker from a repeutable vendor with a good history of pre- and after- sales service.

To an extent, I expect this also applies to stones.


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## Dragon_Stone (Aug 3, 2019)

Maybe. I’ve bought hundreds of things over a decade on Amazon never had a problem. Guess the law of averages finally caught up with me.


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## GeneH (Aug 3, 2019)

I can’t disagree with anything in this thread. So here’s my take as a home user with moderate or mild stainless kitchen knives, bought my kids nice Japanese knives from Jon at Japanese knife imports. We sharpen everything from stainless to soft carbon to D2 and fancier steel outdoor knives.

Choice of stones I bought my kids Chosera 1K splash & go, a great big green brick 2k, a 1k splash & go from Jon at Japanese Knife imports, and I have jons soaking stones from Japanese knives imports. Mine are 220, 400, 1K/6k combo. 

All of these stones work extremely well. I wouldn’t discount the ease of using soaking stones. I keep mine in the small plastic container change the water out every couple weeks and they’re always ready to go. Anytime that I’m doing an extended sharpening session anything more than a half an hour I really appreciate the soaking stones.

Most of the time I don’t go over 1K and a little stropping. I prefer the toothy edge. Nor would I be without the 400. The 6k has limited use.


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## inferno (Aug 4, 2019)

this place has many different stones. not too expensive either. get a stone holder too.
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Water-Stones-C4.aspx


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## M1k3 (Aug 4, 2019)

inferno said:


> this place has many different stones. not too expensive either. get a stone holder too.
> https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Water-Stones-C4.aspx



I've had good experiences with them the 3 times I've used them.


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## kayman67 (Aug 4, 2019)

The JCK Special Combination Whetstone would be a good stone to start with.


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## kayman67 (Aug 5, 2019)

Dragon_Stone said:


> Let me give you some history. Back 20 years ago I bought a 3 piece set of Wusthof knives. Since I've owned them they've never been sharpened. Recently I bought a set of inexpensive Chicago Cutlery steak knives (non serrated). That's when I realized how dull my Wusthofs had become. They still have a good edge because I've always taken care of them but anything delicate they're not so great. I'm using my steak knives for now because I can't go back to using dull blades.
> 
> So I began researching how to sharpen my Wusthofs and maintain my steak knives, that's when I stumbled upon Ryky Youtube Channel Burrfection. Man I love that guy, I've been binge watching all his videos, learning all about hand sharpening. Now I'm getting ready to buy some stones and I've narrowed it down to a few but have some questions before I pull the trigger.
> 
> ...



I'll give you my take on this, one by one.

Ryky has some good parts and some bad parts. Mainly as he only worked not with a limited number of knives or stones, but with specific types in a very specific way and this makes many to be not so many after all. So you really need to understand that when you choose the info. It's like nails to a hammer. And maybe this is why some just don't like the guy. I like him, just don't agree with him on everything.

1. I wouldn't go for them. I have them, not my first choice for learning and taking care. You might be a bit better with Kramer's, at the right price. 400+3000 works well, used it a lot for a while. They are more stable. The Kramer 3K is a bit different at first, but a good stone. I had them all and all were good stones. Even the 3k Kramer might crack, but far less and being glued to the glass makes it not much of an issue. I've seen this.

2. Cerax 1000 is a good stone. Rika as well. Not much to talk about. I think I like more the 6k version, but that's just me. I could maintain my gyuto's edge indefinitely on it. There is this misconception that high grit stones do nothing but polish. I could make a bevel on Kitayama 8000 or even repair some chips. And I did this just to see if it works. Quite a surprise. The Sigma Select 10000 can do the same and can fast polish all the scratches directly from 1k. Pretty crazy stone. 

Shapton Glass is an expensive route. I own the entire set, used it for razors mainly and from time to time for knives. It's a huge hit for Japanese carbon steel knives. Really great edges with little effort. 
King KDS is a good stone. King in general are good stones, perfect for learning proper sharpening on them. But as I've already said above, there is a much nicer double stone for about the same value. 

On polishing stones, I would say they are only if you really understand what they do and how to use them to your advantage. You need a very healthy edge to begin with. Now, most people even without realizing, will take away some of the edge's life during sharpening. Polishing that would give little benefit, if any. A healthy thinned polished edge will cut better and longer even on a softer steel and will outlast any toothy coarse edge. I've tested this many many times, during many months of usage. Actually I've worked with a pile of Wusthofs as well. If you do things right, 2-4k should be enough, depending on the stone. Naniwa Hayabusa might just be *the* stone for it. But if you start with a healthy edge, stropping is also king! A good strop will make you forget how to use your stones. 

1k stones are not all the same. In fact these grit numbers are quite misleading sometimes. The Shapton Pro 1000 is a true mid coarse stone. I would say far away from the mid grit stones you might want. It will be unnecessary coarser for the way you want to use it. You might need the 2000 and this is the one I have seen working as a maintenance stone. Even the 1500 would be more suited for it. A good alternative for a faster stone, with a bit of a toothy polished edge after, would be the Naniwa Traditional 2000. You could even use it as a single stone. It will deliver a lot of performance out of the knives for very little effort and money. The Traditional is such an underrated series from Naniwa. I don't know why. The 2000 is really good. The 8000 is almost to the amazing point. 

It's not difficult to built the skills for it, if someone would explain everything important from the start. Unfortunately I am not aware of a single video that does that. You need to take info from several from different people. Quite difficult for a beginner to identify what's what just by watching. 

All in all, I think Shapton Pro 1000 might not be the best weapon of choice or, at least, not alone, for the way you consider using it. That is why I've tried to PM you as messages might get faster notifications (just a guess). It was a miss and a second miss.

About the bolsters. Get the cheapest coarse diamond plate you can find. It will do the job nicely. I have one for 5$ I think. Eats them with ease. Also very coarse sand paper will work. Or some old cheap coarse Crystolon no one wants these days. They are not that hard to deal with once you know how. Hitting the bolster is also not an issue with proper technique. Not very hard to understand. I would go as far as to say that it would be the perfect excuse to learn sharpening using both hands. It's a great little trick I've picked up while testing any way sharpening can be done.


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## Receiver52 (Aug 7, 2019)

You might want to consider starting with a sharpening lesson. This was the route i ultimately decided to take. The first lesson was 2 hours from a sharpening pro. Thought I got it but needed a second lesson for it to click in completely. 

It’s all about getting your angle and then consistently using it as well as the correct levels of pressure which depend entirely on what it is you are trying to do. i.e. starting with a dull edge on a 200 stone requires one level of pressure versus finishing versus polishing. You’ll get it eventually. If you are like a lot of us, you will find sharpening a very enjoyable task. Some say Zen like but that’s a bit over the top for me.

Good luck and have fun with it.


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## hentaides (Aug 7, 2019)

+1 on sharpton


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