# Kanji translation



## Logan A. (Jul 6, 2021)

Hey guys I was looking at this knife by Kitae Matsumoto. It has some kanji on it and I was wondering if anyone on here could help translate. I’ve tried researching but don’t even know where to start quite frankly.

Thanks for the help!


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## KenHash (Jul 7, 2021)

Did you see my response to this thread?
Kitae Matsumoto Knives | Kitchen Knife Forums


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## spaceconvoy (Jul 7, 2021)

以古地鉄与鍛造之
I can't really translate this. It seems like a very old fashioned (or maybe just pompous) way of saying 'forged with special iron.' The key phrase here is 古地鉄 - Kojitetsu, literally "old ground iron," which appears to be a term invented by this maker to refer to the wrought iron cladding.

松本鍛作
Made by Kitae Matsumoto, at least this part is easy and direct.

Here's one of their knives with the same inscription and a bunch of text if you have infinite patience, but it just seems like marketing garbage to me:




__





松本鍛 作　古地鉄 会津型天応７寸・両刃　Kitae Matsumoto Kojitetsu Aizugata-Tenno 210㎜・Double Beve | 和式鍛造ナイフ専門店 宗正刃物ナイフ包丁特選


松本鍛 作　岩崎古地鉄 会津型天応７寸・両刃 宗正刃物の商品詳細ページ。和式鍛造ナイフ、和式刃物、鍛造刃物、うち刃物、鉈など正統物を多数取り揃え。




www.munemasa.co.jp


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## Logan A. (Jul 7, 2021)

KenHash said:


> Did you see my response to this thread?
> Kitae Matsumoto Knives | Kitchen Knife Forums


I just did! Thank you for that!!


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## Logan A. (Jul 7, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> 以古地鉄与鍛造之
> I can't really translate this. It seems like a very old fashioned (or maybe just pompous) way of saying 'forged with special iron.' The key phrase here is 古地鉄 - Kojitetsu, literally "old ground iron," which appears to be a term invented by this maker to refer to the wrought iron cladding.
> 
> 
> ...



That does make sense considering the claim is that the iron was received from Shigeyoshi Iwasaki. It’s tough to see what’s worthwhile sometimes when there’s so much marketing Mumbo jumbo going around. It makes it challenging to discern what’s legit. Also makes a price significantly more expensive for reasons that don’t pertain to better F&F, or performance.

thank you for the help!!!


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## KenHash (Jul 8, 2021)

以古地鉄与鍛造之　 松本鍛作

I also tend to think this is some personal "mumbo jumbo".
以古 (iko)is actually a Chinese term equivalent to the Japanese 古代 (kodai)meaning Ancient Times.
地鉄 (jitetsu) is actually a term used for Nihontou and refers to the pattern formed where the different
metals come together. I have no idea if that is what is meant. It could also refer to a specific iron from
a specific location. In which case Iwasaki Kojitetstu 岩崎古地鉄 would be the iron cladding.

与 (atae) is to give present.
鍛造 (tanzou) is forge/forging.
之 (no) this is an old classic way of writing の　(of)

As peculiar as I find all this, Matsumoto Kitae is a very legitimate Tosa knifemaker and some of his higher end knives are hardly cheap. And really, knifemakers can put whatever they darn please on their creations.


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## Logan A. (Jul 8, 2021)

KenHash said:


> 以古地鉄与鍛造之　 松本鍛作
> 
> I also tend to think this is some personal "mumbo jumbo".
> 以古 (iko)is actually a Chinese term equivalent to the Japanese 古代 (kodai)meaning Ancient Times.
> ...



Thank you for clarifying more of the translation!

I hope it was clear that I wasn’t referring to any of Kitae Matsumoto’s work negatively. Or any maker for that matter. Rather some third party distributors that utilize certain marketing tactics.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 17, 2021)

KenHash said:


> 以古地鉄与鍛造之　 松本鍛作
> 
> I also tend to think this is some personal "mumbo jumbo".
> 以古 (iko)is actually a Chinese term equivalent to the Japanese 古代 (kodai)meaning Ancient Times.
> ...


I think it is more likely 以-古地铁-与-锻造-之 as 以古 is not a Chinese term. We also use 古代 or 古 for ancient times. 古地铁 looks like a type of iron they are promoting.

I guess 以-古地铁-与-锻造-之 means “use 古地铁 to give it a forging” . 

“以” in Chinese could be “use” and “之” could be “it”. “与” here is “give”. A more natural way to understand it is “以-古地铁-与之-锻造” but inversion is not uncommon in ancient writing. Just my guess.


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## KenHash (Jul 17, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think it is more likely 以-古地铁-与-锻造-之 as 以古 is not a Chinese term. We also use 古代 or 古 for ancient times. 古地铁 looks like a type of iron they are promoting.
> 
> I guess 以-古地铁-与-锻造-之 means “use 古地铁 to give it a forging” .
> 
> “以” in Chinese could be “use” and “之” could be “it”. “与” here is “give”. A more natural way to understand it is “以-古地铁-与之-锻造” but inversion is not uncommon in ancient writing. Just my guess.



Are you familiar with the term 以古非今？
This is why I thought　以古　was a Chinese term.
In anycase I do tend to lean toward the specific iron interpretation.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 17, 2021)

KenHash said:


> Are you familiar with the term 以古非今？
> This is why I thought　以古　was a Chinese term.


以古非今 is 4 words together. 以 means “use”. 古 is ancient times or history. 非 is critize. 今 is current time. 以古非今 means use history story to criticize current time/people.


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## KenHash (Jul 17, 2021)

Yes, praising the past to criticize the present. 
I assumed the 以and古were together


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