# What wine are you collecting?



## agp (Sep 27, 2022)

For oenophiles, what wine are you collecting? What's the next frontier for collectable wines?


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## Rangen (Sep 27, 2022)

agp said:


> For oenophiles, what wine are you collecting? What's the next frontier for collectable wines?


What is collectible wine? I know how to buy it, cellar it, and drink it. 

Are you asking what is likely to increase in price next? In my experience, it's stuff I really really liked back when I could afford it. If you want an example, OK, the basic cuvee of Clos Rougeard for $40/bottle. Just look at it now.


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## agp (Sep 27, 2022)

To me collectible wine is wine you buy but are reluctant to drink.
How long ago was Clos Rougeard $40/bottle?


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## Rangen (Sep 27, 2022)

agp said:


> To me collectible wine is wine you buy but are reluctant to drink.
> How long ago was Clos Rougeard $40/bottle?



20-25 years ago, at a guess. It crept up for years, but it was the 2010 vintage when things just went nuts.

By your definition, a bunch of my wine became collectible when I wasn't paying attention. It sounds like a good problem to have, but I was hoping to just drink the stuff, not think about how much it is worth now.


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## sumis (Sep 28, 2022)

personally i don’t project saving bottles for more than 5–7 years. i’m not in my twenties, and buy to (eventually) drink. with that said, i’d bet on some of the more popular ‘natural’ producers, who makes wine that actually develops favorably over time. well known stuff like cornelissen, occhipinti, la stoppa, tschida … makers like gut oggau, l’octavin i believe will be traded for quite some money in the future regardless if they age well or not.

i’m far too thirsty myself to see wine as an investment. even though french classics and piemonte probably still are a far better way to save money than in the bank or exchange market.

.

.


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## Choppin (Sep 28, 2022)

Oh yes, the long list of wines I used to afford but now are far beyond my reach... don't even like thinking about it, haha.

Like sumis, I usually collect with a similar time frame in mind: 5-7 years, maybe 10 for a few selected bottles. My favorites are natural (or biodynamic, lutte raisonne... I'm happy with anything low intervention) bottles that reap some new expression within that time frame. 

Just to name a few favorites: 

- Beaujolais red (Foillard & gang, also younger producers)
- Rhone red (used to be JM Stephan but it's kinda pricey right now... Pierre Gonon is incredible)
- Burgundy (1er cru or "1er cru level" village from reasonably priced producers)
- Jura (mostly whites, still have some old Overnoy stashed)
- Chenin blanc and riesling (two grapes that gain immensely with some age... so many good producers here)


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## Choppin (Sep 28, 2022)

Not so long ago I had a much less practical approach to collecting wine - climate controlled storage for ˜500 bottles in my apartment and plans to keep some wines until my retirement. It was just too impractical and expensive (not only $ for wine but electrical bills, maintenance, moving apartments, etc). 

If I lived in rural France with underground passive cellaring we would be having a very different conversation right now. @milangravier looking for a roommate?


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## milangravier (Sep 28, 2022)

My 70m2 cellar is waiting for you my friend ! As soon as I can access to the wine of course


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## Choppin (Sep 28, 2022)

milangravier said:


> My 70m2 cellar is waiting for you my friend ! As soon as I can access to the wine of course


haha sounds like a good deal!


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## KJDedge (Sep 28, 2022)

Beaujolais by foillard, bouland, etc are making incredible cellar worthy wines that are still reasonable…best value in French wine IMO…
Good years of southern and northern Rhône’s are great to cellar and collect….
Bordeaux… what great values are appearing… putting Napa quality and prices to shame….
Sicilian reds are coming on STRONG as well..

High end collecting burgs, 1st gr Bordeaux, top echelon Rhône are out of my price range…


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## agp (Oct 2, 2022)

Isn't beaujolais best when young?


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## sumis (Oct 2, 2022)

agp said:


> Isn't beaujolais best when young?



no no no !

or, well, yes … as far as popular/old knowledge goes – beaujolais nouveau, etc. 

but beaujolais also produces fantastic fuller bodied, great cellar worthy wines that are amazing bang for the buck – especially considering what you have to pay for bottles just stone's throw north of beaujolais these days …

.


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## Cliff (Oct 2, 2022)

Just had a 2009 J.-P. Brun Morgon with dinner the other day. Definitely still going strong.


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## sumis (Oct 2, 2022)

Cliff said:


> Just had a 2009 J.-P. Brun Morgon with dinner the other day. Definitely still going strong.



nice. 

i had one last week – albeit quit a bit younger. five of its siblings are tucked in for later consumption though. 

.


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## Hockey3081 (Oct 2, 2022)

Anyone have any recommendations for Vouvrays?


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## Rangen (Oct 2, 2022)

Hockey3081 said:


> Anyone have any recommendations for Vouvrays?


Huet, every time.


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## Hockey3081 (Oct 2, 2022)

Rangen said:


> Huet, every time.



Thank you! I think there is a specialty shop near me that has them. I had bought a few Domaine du Viking bottles a few years ago but cannot find it anywhere now.


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## Cliff (Oct 3, 2022)

Rangen said:


> Huet, every time.


Huet is one of the great producers in the world, but do not overlook Foreau. I enjoy them just as much.


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## Choppin (Oct 9, 2022)

agp said:


> Isn't beaujolais best when young?


Morgon from top producers can age beautifully. I had some aged Fleurie (5-7 years) that were very nice as well.


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## Cliff (Oct 9, 2022)

I'm still working on my 2005 Coudert Tardive. Most Beaujolais, like wines from most areas, is not so great. But the great ones are lovely and age well. I love my favorites around 12-15 years after the vintage, depending on the vintage. I still debate myself whether I prefer wines like Foillard young or older, but it's a question of preference. Others, like Coudert, are definitely better with some age.

ETA, Foillard's 3.15 is another matter, too, in terms of growing with time in bottle.


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## cotedupy (Oct 9, 2022)

The two producers I have by far the most of are Foillard (can you tell? ), and Ganevat. Which I've been buying every year for about the last 15 or so.

---

Generally the rule of buying producer rather than region is good. This list could probably be 100 long, but here are a few off the top of my head:

Montenidoli - Elisabetta Fagiouli's Vernaccias are among Italy's great white wines.

Produttori del Barbaresco - A lot of Babaresco is underpriced, Produttori's wines extraordinarily so.

Huet - Deserves the reputation.

Prieure St Christophe - Michel Grisard retired in 2015, but his wines should still be available if you look around. Astonishing Mondeuse.

Recaredo - The best sparkling wines in the world. By a distance.

Valentini - Can you call a $150 Trebbiano 'good value'? You can once you've tasted it.

Domaine de la Grand Couer & Yvon Metras - Two good friends and legendary Fleurie vignerons. When they're good the wines are utterly ethereal.

Max Breton - Consistently amazing.

Lapierre - Matthieu and Camille's wines are as good as their father's. The regular Morgon is probably the best value wine in Beaujolais. ‘N’ if you can get it.

Tempier & Terrebrune - My personal favourites from a region that's as good and ageworthy as any in France. You could pick from any of the other top Bandol producers and be happy too.

Pliger - The Riesling in particular.

Nino Barracco - Gorgeous, saline expressions of Sicilian sun and sea.

Gravner - Much imitated, never equalled.

---

And some other more general recommendations:

Sherry - No secret that sherry is the screaming bargain of fine wine, but less well known is that it can age very nicely in bottle. And an increasing number of producers are using driven corks. Montilla too.

Marsala - Good Marsala is just wonderful. Marco de Bartoli is next level.

Etna - Both Reds and Whites have extraordinary ageing potential.

N. Rhone - Serious wines and still comparatively underpriced. Chave is majestic.

English Sparkling Wine - Already better quality and value than champagne at the same price. And the Champennois know it, they’ve been buying up vineyards here for years.

Loire Cabernet Franc - Remains mysteriously cheap, and keeps forever.


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## cotedupy (Oct 9, 2022)

Also worth a look...

Burgundy - A large region just to the north of the Beaujolais, producing wines of variable quality. Though at their best can approach those of the ten Crus.


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## Cliff (Oct 9, 2022)

Sherry remains probably the single most under-priced great region.

Could not agree more about the Produttori and Huet.

In Bandol, I like Pradeaux as well.

The Baudries do beautiful work in Chinon

I've been cellaring Marc Olivier's Muscadets since the early 00's.


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## cotedupy (Oct 9, 2022)

Cliff said:


> I've been cellaring Marc Olivier's Muscadets since the early 00's




Ssssshhhhhhhhh. Don’t tell anyone. Dem's da rulez!

How could I forget Muscadet and Pepiere?! The oldest I've had were a couple of bottles of '92 Clos des Briords, which a somm friend gave me a few years ago and were still pristine in every way. Unfortunately I'm less good at cellaring the wines myself, as they just seem to mysteriously evaporate. Very clever to have been keeping them for the last 20 years .

Luneau-Papin's higher cuvees I love as well.


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## Cliff (Oct 10, 2022)

I do love LP as well. I think I still have a couple of magnums of 2004 Briords


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## DamageInc (Oct 10, 2022)

Red


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 10, 2022)

I’m now beginning to enjoy (i.e. open and like) the Piemonte wines I bought some eight years ago. Prices were pretty good back then.

Like the rest of you I enjoy Beaujolais, chateau thivin being my favorite. Otherwise always on the hunt for affordable Burgundy (not so lucky in that department, although I’ve had some luck with some producers from southern burgundy).

A few other guilty pleasures: spanish whites. Everything from fresh albarino (have had some great aged albarinos and godellos as well) to the awesome white riojas. White wine made from palomino is great If you can find it.

However, I recently discovered that what I enjoy the most is not too expensive around 10 year old bordeaux. White, red, murky and overpriced, I take them all.


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## coxhaus (Oct 10, 2022)

I have a case of Round Pond Estate Louis Bovet 2019 that I plan to keep for a while. I am in Texas, and it is hard to store wine for long periods of time. A wine cooler is on my list. I don't want one unless it stores at least 250 bottles of wine. I have looked online, the size is holding me back as it needs to fit in my closet, I have in the utility room. The measurements are too close to call. I need to see one and put a tape to it. Hopefully one of these days it will happen. 

Anybody know of a good wine cooler? It needs to be under 26 inches deep. Wide is no problem. Height, if I keep the light then under 76 inches and removing the light it will be around 82 inches. One temp is fine with me.


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## sumis (Oct 10, 2022)

Carl Kotte said:


> chateau thivin being my favorite.



kompis! yeah, i'm with you on that. i have four Cote de Brouilly Les Sept Vignes left from a couple of years ago that i will try to leave for a while. they are a steal imho. 

.


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## Rangen (Oct 10, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I have a case of Round Pond Estate Louis Bovet 2019 that I plan to keep for a while. I am in Texas, and it is hard to store wine for long periods of time. A wine cooler is on my list. I don't want one unless it stores at least 250 bottles of wine. I have looked online, the size is holding me back as it needs to fit in my closet, I have in the utility room. The measurements are too close to call. I need to see one and put a tape to it. Hopefully one of these days it will happen.
> 
> Anybody know of a good wine cooler? It needs to be under 26 inches deep. Wide is no problem. Height, if I keep the light then under 76 inches and removing the light it will be around 82 inches. One temp is fine with me.
> 
> View attachment 202556


Just measured the 250 bottle one I got from Wine Enthusiast:

78 9/16" Height, including protruding hinge
31 1/2 Width
~31 1/2" Depth, including external cooling pipes, and 1 3/4" protruding door handle

A ~25 year old Eurocave 260 comes in right at 26" depth, if you don't count the door knob that protrudes 1 1/2" from the front.


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## coxhaus (Oct 10, 2022)

Rangen said:


> Just measured the 250 bottle one I got from Wine Enthusiast:
> 
> A ~25 year old Eurocave 260 comes in right at 26" depth, if you don't count the door knob that protrudes 1 1/2" from the front.


This is my problem. The closet has a folding sliding door. My wife likes the idea of a wine cooler, the wine cooler just needs to fit, or my wife will shoot me. Can you still open the door without the doorknob?

My closet is almost 6 feet wide so at some point I may be able to run 2. How wide is your Eurocave?


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## Rangen (Oct 10, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> This is my problem. The closet has a folding sliding door. My wife likes the idea of a wine cooler, the wine cooler just needs to fit, or my wife will shoot me. Can you still open the door without the doorknob?
> 
> My closet is almost 6 feet wide so at some point I may be able to run 2. How wide is your Eurocave?


I can easily open the door of the Eurocave without the knob. Of course, the seal has been aging for 25 years. That's a good thing for Tempier -- I consider 15 years a bare minimum, not so much for door seals.

I can open the new WE units without the pull, also, with a bit more resistance.

The Eurocave is 25 3/4" wide. The caveat here is when I went looking, I did not see any current models that resembled my old one, so the depth measurement may well not apply any more.


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## coxhaus (Oct 10, 2022)

Rangen said:


> The Eurocave is 25 3/4" wide. The caveat here is when I went looking, I did not see any current models that resembled my old one, so the depth measurement may well not apply any more.


Oh, that is bad.


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 10, 2022)

sumis said:


> kompis! yeah, i'm with you on that. i have four Cote de Brouilly Les Sept Vignes left from a couple of years ago that i will try to leave for a while. they are a steal imho.
> 
> .


Ja!!! Really good. I’ve had bottles from a few different vineyards from 2014-17 tucked away. The 2015 were awesome last year, but due to non-ideal storing, I think I had better hurry up with What I have left.


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## MarcelNL (Oct 10, 2022)

Carl Kotte said:


> Ja!!! Really good. I’ve had bottles from a few different vineyards from 2014-17 tucked away. The 2015 were awesome last year, but due to non-ideal storing, I think I had better hurry up with What I have left.


just let me know in case you need help with those!

I'm not patient enough for aging wine, and like drinking wine too much to be able to collect it.

I buy in batches that I store in a wine cooler, currently it's doubling as a cheese cellar.


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 10, 2022)

MarcelNL said:


> just let me know in case you need help with those!
> 
> I'm not patient enough for aging wine, and like drinking wine too much to be able to collect it.
> 
> I buy in batches that I store in a wine cooler, currently it's doubling as a cheese cellar.


That’s an excellent idea, but sending wine (alcohol generally) across the Swedish border is tricky. And then there’s postnord there to help as well


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## sumis (Oct 11, 2022)

Carl Kotte said:


> Ja!!! Really good. I’ve had bottles from a few different vineyards from 2014-17 tucked away. The 2015 were awesome last year, but due to non-ideal storing, I think I had better hurry up with What I have left.



I've made that mistake a couple of times … But I like the gamble as well. 
I don't have too much space, and not ideal storing conditions. Still, I threw out 50% of my clothes and filled a north wall facing closet my cramped wine storage. I drink within 5, maybe 7 years, and I have a some more precious stuff in a friends cellar.

.


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## coxhaus (Oct 11, 2022)

Anybody collecting California wine? I am more of a drinker, but I have much better access to California wine.


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## Cliff (Oct 11, 2022)

I keep meaning to put away Ridge Geyserville but have never been able to keep hands off.


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## Rangen (Oct 11, 2022)

Cliff said:


> I keep meaning to put away Ridge Geyserville but have never been able to keep hands off.


Fix that. It is one of a rather short list of California wines that actually get better with time.

Still, I get you. It's awesome right out of the gate.


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## Cliff (Oct 12, 2022)

It's true, and they're readily available. The one I really wish I were more disciplined about is Kalin, but those also drink so well on release that I never keep any.


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## coxhaus (Oct 12, 2022)

I like Ridge wines. I will buy some Ridge Geyserville wine and check it out. I have not drunk a lot of Ridge lately. I drank more 10 to 15 years ago. I think the last Ridge I had was a lodi.

What is the Kalin wine? I don't find a Ridge Kalin.


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## Cliff (Oct 12, 2022)

Kalin is a different producer: Kalin Home Page


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## coxhaus (Oct 13, 2022)

I found 3 bottles not too far away. It is all they had. I like Zinfandel. I am sure I will enjoy these.


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## coxhaus (Oct 13, 2022)

Cliff said:


> Kalin is a different producer: Kalin Home Page


It looks like there aren't any sold in Texas nor NAPA? I thought you could find all California wines in NAPA.

I am not sure where Novato, California is located.

We have done NAPA trips where we only went to small winery's that produced less than 5,000 cases per year. Wineries like this never make Texas as they are too small.


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## rmrf (Oct 13, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> Anybody collecting California wine? I am more of a drinker, but I have much better access to California wine.


I don't collect, but I would try Dunn from Howell mountain. They're supposed to do well in the cellar and they taste like it. Make sure to get the ones from the mountain, not the valley. Generally, I think mountain fruit does better than valley floor for aging but Napa is hard these days. I have a soft spot for smith madrone and white rock, but I'd drink them in 10-15 years personally. Finding good cabs in Napa is hard work and finding Cabs from Napa that can age is even harder. Price is often negatively correlated with aging potential.

I really can't recommend any pinot in california for aging. I can recommend a lot for drinking, but I don't see them really lasting. Dragonette's MJM does pretty well on the 10 year time span and their older pinots haven't decayed so there's that. I haven't explored sonoma, russian river, or santa cruz enough to say. 

If I were you, I would try and find local wine regions. There might be new opportunities with climate change!

I like collecting but not aging wines. Food/situation/weather pairing is a lot more fun to me and it costs less. For instance, I really like fruity overbearing CA pinots at the end of the meal when it's below 0 outside.


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## rmrf (Oct 13, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Sherry - No secret that sherry is the screaming bargain of fine wine, but less well known is that it can age very nicely in bottle. And an increasing number of producers are using driven corks. Montilla too.





Cliff said:


> Sherry remains probably the single most under-priced great region.



You can't say that and not give recommendations!! I've been looking for good sherry since Frasier but I never know what to do. I've never found a sherry tasting. In my random search in big box stores, I found myself gravitating towards amontillado from emilio lustau but that might just be because it worked great in cooking.


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## coxhaus (Oct 13, 2022)

rmrf said:


> I don't collect, but I would try Dunn from Howell mountain. They're supposed to do well in the cellar and they taste like it. Make sure to get the ones from the mountain, not the valley. Generally, I think mountain fruit does better than valley floor for aging but Napa is hard these days. I have a soft spot for smith madrone and white rock, but I'd drink them in 10-15 years personally. Finding good cabs in Napa is hard work and finding Cabs from Napa that can age is even harder. Price is often negatively correlated with aging potential.
> 
> I really can't recommend any pinot in california for aging. I can recommend a lot for drinking, but I don't see them really lasting. Dragonette's MJM does pretty well on the 10 year time span and their older pinots haven't decayed so there's that. I haven't explored sonoma, russian river, or santa cruz enough to say.
> 
> ...


My favorite NAPA pinot is Saintsbury from the Lee region. I like the taste of the Carneros grapes. I know nothing about Oregon pinots. Weather determines what we drink. We are just starting really drinking reds. During the Texas summers we mainly drink whites and rose' wines.

Texas wines have a ways to go in my opinion. I had a Texas Tempranillo wine I really thought was good. My local winery is fun but nothing great. We still support it with buying wines.

The Dunn cab sounds a lot different than the Round Pound cab I liked and bought. I will look for a bottle to try. Have you drunk any of the Round Pond cab? How would you compare it? The Rond Pond Louis Bovet cab I can't find in Texas I bought my case in NAPA at Rond Pond.

I found this Oregan Pinot rose' which we like a lot. I think I posted before but here it is again. It probably won't age well. It is a Total Wine product not expensive. We drank it by the case this summer. I don't know how many cases but it was a lot.


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## cotedupy (Oct 13, 2022)

rmrf said:


> You can't say that and not give recommendations!! I've been looking for good sherry since Frasier but I never know what to do. I've never found a sherry tasting. In my random search in big box stores, I found myself gravitating towards amontillado from emilio lustau but that might just be because it worked great in cooking.




Buying Sherry is like shooting fish in a barrel tbh - pretty much all of it is excellent. The standard offerings from the big houses are great, posher, longer aged stuff from smaller bodegas are excellent, and everything in between.

If you want to try ageing some of the lighter styles (Fino and Manzanilla) then look for wines that have a 'normal' driven cork that you need to remove with a corkscrew, as opposed to a stopper cork. And also for wines that have had a minimum amount of filtration, which is usually now called 'En Rama', though some producers don't mention that on the label.

One other thing interesting thing to note is that these styles of Sherry are pretty much unique in the wine world in having different characteristics depending on what time of year they were bottled. This is because the layer of yeast ('flor') that covers the wine is more vigorous in the Spring and Autumn than in the temperature extremes of Summer and Winter, so you get more or less flor character in the wine depending on the season of the bottling. The effect is also more pronounced in Sanlucar for Manzanilla than it is in Jerez for Fino, because it's closer to the sea and the flor is generally thicker. The practice of including the 'saca' information on the bottle was started, or perhaps highlighted, first by Barbadillo about 15 (?) years ago, when they started putting a different label on every bottling of their Manzanilla Solear En Rama, to emphasize the constantly changing and evolving nature of the solera system. They bottle that wine four times a year, though many other sherry houses bottle twice a year.

---

But to answer your q... here are three producers I really, really love. The first two make wines going from entry level through to very expensive, the last only have quite posh wines.

El Maestro Sierra
Callejuela
Tradicion


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## ethompson (Oct 13, 2022)

Everything, even the cheap stuff, from El Maestro has been excellent in my experience. I've also enjoyed anything I've ever had bottled by Equipo Navazos.

As far as fortifieds go, don't sleep on on Madeira either. It is the ultimate aging wine IMO. It never goes bad, even after being opened (okay, it can turn after being opened, but only after months or even longer...). Bottles can go centuries and still be quite delicious.


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## cotedupy (Oct 13, 2022)

rmrf said:


> You can't say that and not give recommendations!! I've been looking for good sherry since Frasier but I never know what to do. I've never found a sherry tasting. In my random search in big box stores, I found myself gravitating towards amontillado from emilio lustau but that might just be because it worked great in cooking.




Oh and - Lustau are a really excellent bodega too, all the way from their entry levels to their posher stuff. Can’t go wrong. If ever you see it - they have a very good range of wines under the name 'Almacenista'. The Pata de Gallina in particular is seriously interesting.

Amontillado is perhaps my favourite style, so you're onto a winner there too! I like the lighter styles, but it’s the more oxidative ones that really do it for me; Amontillado, Palo Cortado, and Oloroso.


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## cotedupy (Oct 13, 2022)

ethompson said:


> Everything, even the cheap stuff, from El Maestro has been excellent in my experience. I also really enjoy anything I've ever had bottled by Equipo Navazos.
> 
> As far as fortifieds go, don't sleep on on Madeira either. It is the ultimate aging wine IMO. It never goes bad, even after being opened (okay, it can turn after being opened, but only after months or even longer...). Bottles can go centuries and still be quite delicious.




Strong agree on both counts! EN are a prime example of wines that can age very well in bottle. I had a Bota #10 a couple of years back that was singing after 10 years.

There's actually a big Madeira trade tasting in London in a couple of weeks, and a friend of mine works for the company that organises it. Should be fun. The pay's pretty rubbish but there are definite perks to working in the wine biz .


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## Cliff (Oct 13, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> It looks like there aren't any sold in Texas nor NAPA? I thought you could find all California wines in NAPA.
> 
> I am not sure where Novato, California is located.


The Bay area. My favorite CA wines tend to come from the Santa Cruz Mountains. Can you get Jenson's better Pinot Noirs?


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## Cliff (Oct 13, 2022)

rmrf said:


> You can't say that and not give recommendations!! I've been looking for good sherry since Frasier but I never know what to do. I've never found a sherry tasting. In my random search in big box stores, I found myself gravitating towards amontillado from emilio lustau but that might just be because it worked great in cooking.


For widely available, truly great, and very affordable, I would add Valdespino's Inocente Fino. It's as if Dom cost $20.

ETA -- another big yes for Lustau. It's basically all at least very good.
ETA2 -- if you're willing to spend to see really great, check out the Equipo Navazos


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 13, 2022)

I love sherry, but I never buy to age. Maybe I should, but since there’s so much good aged stuff out there for affordable prices, I haven’t managed to bring myself to sit on sherry for longer periods.


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## Rangen (Oct 13, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I found 3 bottles not too far away. It is all they had. I like Zinfandel. I am sure I will enjoy these.


I'm sure too. Ridge Geyserville is, for my taste, the best Zin out there. Some people I know would argue that Ridge Lytton Springs is better, but they're just wrong.


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## coxhaus (Oct 13, 2022)

So, what do you guys think of these wines? I like the black Merlot but not sure how long it will age and still be good. Raymond has a dark blue Merlot also but I like the black label one better. Do you think the red cab will get better with age? It did not knock my socks off. Maybe I drank red cab too young. It's been a few years. If you can't tell they 2016 and 2017 vintage.


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## rmrf (Oct 13, 2022)

Cliff said:


> The Bay area. My favorite CA wines tend to come from the Santa Cruz Mountains. Can you get Jenson's better Pinot Noirs?


I'm just starting to explore santa cruz Pinots. What's some of your favorites? I've been to a few (armitage, soquel, muns, windy oak) but I'm really interested in exploring more! It seemed to me that mountains and close proximity to the ocean should give a lot of fun microclimates.


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## Cliff (Oct 14, 2022)

I am no expert here, but I like Rhys, Calera, and Mount Eden


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## coxhaus (Oct 14, 2022)

I went wine shopping again today. My wife had to go into Austin and I went to a large Specs store checking for wine coolers, but they don't carry them any more since covid. I could not find any pinots from the Santa Cruz Mountains. The Guy recommended an Oregan pinot Concho. What I like at that Specs is the Capo Zafferano Rosso Appassimento. It is made in the Amarone style with a different grape. I love high end Amarone wines. They have gotten so expensive now days that I don't buy a lot.

I need to go to Total wines as they may have some.


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## djacobson (Oct 16, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> Anybody collecting California wine? I am more of a drinker, but I have much better access to California wine.


The only mailing lists I'm on right now are Once & Future (Ravenswood founder Joe Peterson) and Bedrock (Joel's son Morgan).

Currently working my way through some of the vintage Ravenswood that was offered up recently to Once & Future mailing list. These wines definitely hold up for 30+ years.


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