# Shigefusa kiteaji vs Hinoura River jump



## ynot1985 (Feb 5, 2016)

Just wondering, if price wasn't an issue 

Which would people prefer for a knife of the same specs: a kitaeji shig or a Hinoura river jump

Thanks


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## TheDispossessed (Feb 5, 2016)

This is a no contest.
Hinoura. Second place would be hinoura.


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## Asteger (Feb 5, 2016)

TheDispossessed said:


> This is a no contest.
> Hinoura. Second place would be hinoura.



Why?


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## TheDispossessed (Feb 5, 2016)

The way hinoura balances deliberate manipulation of his 'Damascus' with a random, natural aesthetic is perfection to me. Add on top of that the kurouchi and there's another level of rustic beauty.


Asteger said:


> Why?


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## TheDispossessed (Feb 5, 2016)

Shigefusa kitaeji is gorgeous but it can be too busy. Etched it can even be a little gross and generic looking. Hinouras work is unmistakeable and makes breathtaking use of negative space for lack of a better term.


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## Smurfmacaw (Feb 5, 2016)

For looks it's a toss up...I like both. Cutting performance, the shig wins hands down.


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## Asteger (Feb 5, 2016)

Can't be too many around who have tried and can compare the performance of both.


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## mikedtran (Feb 5, 2016)

I believe Tony may have pulled the trigger on a 210mm Gyuto, the one I shared with him is now sold!


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## TheDispossessed (Feb 5, 2016)

Asteger said:


> Can't be too many around who have tried and can compare the performance of both.


This is most certainly true. also, in both cases we're talking about 'Damascus' cladding, so it's all for looks really. I highly doubt the raw performance of shigefusas three different finishes would be consistently different, especially not to the degree that they vary in price. 
Shigefusa itself has a mixed reputation around here for performance, and a stellar one for finish quality.


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## Smurfmacaw (Feb 5, 2016)

I've also got a knife from Ian Rogers in the same size as the my hinoura and it cuts much better too in my opinion (and you can't argue that Ian's chevron Damascus is pretty awesome.) While the river jump is a gorgeous knife and super sharp right out of the box, I found mine to wedge quite a bit in harder vegetables. I've also heard from others with the same opinion. I love the looks of the river jump but the cutting has put me off buying more for now.


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## brainsausage (Feb 5, 2016)

If it's gonna hang on your wall, it's the hinoura. If you're actually going to cut something with it, the Shig. I've never used a hinoura, but it's not hard to tell just from pics alone that it doesn't have the pure cutting abilities of a Shig. Reactivity and edge retention are probably a whole other story.


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## KimBronnum (Feb 5, 2016)

Shig - no contest. I have tried both. The Hinaoura just to try it and I have a 270 Shige K-gyuto myself. The H. had a nice grind and I think it cut well. My Shige, however, falls through stuff. But then again I´m a big-time Shige Lover  
- Kim


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## mikedtran (Feb 5, 2016)

Delete - misread previous post.


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## ynot1985 (Feb 5, 2016)

I have decided against getting a river jump after all. It looks nice and all but if I'm not going to cut with it, then it's hard justifying the price I'm paying for it and at that it seems the shig wins


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## Andrew (Feb 5, 2016)

I found a riverjump nakiri on Portland craigslist and bought it last week (for $300!). I've not had much chance to really use it, and it helps that someone else has already used and sharpened it, such that I won't be afraid to use it.

From early impressions, it's a great cutter, no grind issues, fair food release etc. I've touched up the bevel on my finishing stones and sharpened it, all as one would expect. The twist is stunning, and has a tacktility that is unique in my knife experience.

I don't yet have a kiteagi, so I can't compare on that front.


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## Smurfmacaw (Feb 5, 2016)

ynot1985 said:


> I have decided against getting a river jump after all. It looks nice and all but if I'm not going to cut with it, then it's hard justifying the price I'm paying for it and at that it seems the shig wins



I hear you. I was getting ready to start hunting down some really high priced gyutos until I cut with the petty I have and talked to another member that had one of the gyuto. Don't get me wrong, they put german knives to shame but aren't up to the high end Japanese knives or the custom makers on this site.


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## TheDispossessed (Feb 5, 2016)

That's an incredible score, I really hope it wasn't stolen.


Andrew said:


> I found a riverjump nakiri on Portland craigslist and bought it last week (for $300!). I've not had much chance to really use it, and it helps that someone else has already used and sharpened it, such that I won't be afraid to use it.
> 
> From early impressions, it's a great cutter, no grind issues, fair food release etc. I've touched up the bevel on my finishing stones and sharpened it, all as one would expect. The twist is stunning, and has a tacktility that is unique in my knife experience.
> 
> I don't yet have a kiteagi, so I can't compare on that front.


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## Andrew (Feb 5, 2016)

TheDispossessed said:


> That's an incredible score, I really hope it wasn't stolen.



Ugh, that honestly hadn't occured to me... The guy knew the name, the store it was purchase from etc. Said it was a wedding gift, he and his wife just got a divorce at it was too much to have around. 

My assumption is/was that he didn't know there are avenues where things like this hold value and can be resold. Yuck, didn't even think that it could be stolen.


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## TheDispossessed (Feb 5, 2016)

Andrew,
You're not the bad guy here either way, just enjoy it. Don't let me ruin it for you!
Cheers
Matteo


Andrew said:


> Ugh, that honestly hadn't occured to me... The guy knew the name, the store it was purchase from etc. Said it was a wedding gift, he and his wife just got a divorce at it was too much to have around.
> 
> My assumption is/was that he didn't know there are avenues where things like this hold value and can be resold. Yuck, didn't even think that it could be stolen.


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## Lucretia (Feb 5, 2016)

I've had both. I sold the Hinoura. I'm keeping the Shig.


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## Asteger (Feb 5, 2016)

TheDispossessed said:


> Andrew, You're not the bad guy here either way, just enjoy it. Don't let me ruin it for you!
> Cheers Matteo



You never know, I mean... the divorce and all. If not stolen, this blade could still be cursed! :angel2:


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## pleue (Feb 5, 2016)

that was you! I was a day late to the party. He seems like a nice guy from my interaction. Didn't seem like a knife thief, he had the boxes in his ad for this and another knife he had so doubtful they walked off a job site. He chatted with me about stones and such and had some more than general knowledge. Congrats, the knife looked beautiful in the photo.


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## Factotum (Feb 5, 2016)

Andrew, was the guy bearded and kind of heavy set?


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## Andrew (Feb 5, 2016)

Yeah, I don't think he was a theif, but it hadn't occurred to me really... He did seem broken up about selling it. 

I don't recall a beard, and I'm on the well towards "thick" side so don't pay much attention to others. But yeah, sounds about right.


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 5, 2016)

Here is my Kitaeji and Hinoura for comparison. The shig may be on its way to a new home (I'm wanting a 240-270+) and I'm keeping the Hinoura as a collection piece:









Shigefusa Kitaeji 210mm wa-Gyuto









Tsukasa Hinoura Unryu-Mon Shirogami #2 150mm wa-Petty

I've seen some Hinouras with just a bit of banding and some Damascus, and then a lot of plain KU finish. I was debating a nakiri but the pics I saw reminded me of a shig Kurouchi for many times the cost (most of the knife looked like he back side of my petty. Have heard anecdotally about the Hinoura "half twist" and "full twist"; Tsukasa also makes a Kitaeji. My petty has the Damascus wrap over the spine. Here are some INSANE Hinouras:


ggg16902002 said:


> a set of Hinouras..


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## Factotum (Feb 5, 2016)

Yea, well it sounds very much like a guy named Adam who I worked with briefly. He had a Hinoura nakiri and just got divorced, how many can there be? But I'd bet it was him and you can rest at ease that his story and him are legit. I'm just pissed he didn't contact me before he listed it!


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## preizzo (Feb 6, 2016)

I just purchased a new hinoura kitaeji few weeks back and it s an amazing cutter. 
Mine it s a gyuto 210 mm with a incredible pattern, I am using it at home for my dinner prep and has no problem to cut anything. 
I never try a shigefusa but I can think it would be very though to decide which one it's better. 
Good luck with your purchase


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## Asteger (Feb 6, 2016)

preizzo said:


> I just purchased a new hinoura kitaeji few weeks back and it s an amazing cutter.
> Mine it s a gyuto 210 mm with a incredible pattern, I am using it at home for my dinner prep and has no problem to cut anything.



Please post a photo! 

Enjoyed the Hinora photos above. Hmm... maybe because I'm bored of Shigefusa everywhere, I kind of inclined towards the Hinora, looks-wise at least.

... Wait. Just checked the prices on these. Forget it!


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## bonestter (Feb 6, 2016)

Why are Hinoura's River Jump's so incredibly expensive? I mean, such a leap above almost all others


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## TheDispossessed (Feb 6, 2016)

I rambled some nonsense as usual and decided to edit it out. Now you have to read this, sorry.


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## ynot1985 (Feb 6, 2016)

yep, he generally makes natas (japanese hunting knives) under his family's brand Ajigataya. Hinoura is his own brand



TheDispossessed said:


> Having never used a hinoura, I will say, for knives as thick as these, those look like some shallow bevels. I can easily see how these could be prone to wedging. If I'm not mistaken, hinoura is known for making outdoor knives. His bevels look similar in depth to Heijis who


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## TheDispossessed (Feb 6, 2016)

A friend told me he spends a day and a half sharpening/finishing a single knife. For a master craftsman that's easily near $1000 just in labor. They're heirloom pieces that exhibit the best of his capabilities after decades of work and research. I honestly would never actually use one if I had it.


bonestter said:


> Why are Hinoura's River Jump's so incredibly expensive? I mean, such a leap above almost all others


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## TheDispossessed (Feb 6, 2016)

Damn you got to my blubber blabber before it cold be erased for all eternity. The half baked thought here was that he's maybe a tool maker at heart, like Heiji.


ynot1985 said:


> yep, he generally makes natas (japanese hunting knives) under his family's brand Ajigataya. Hinoura is his own brand


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## ynot1985 (Feb 6, 2016)

This fact alone means I'll never cut with his knife if I had one too


TheDispossessed said:


> A friend told me he spends a day and a half sharpening/finishing a single knife.


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## bonestter (Feb 6, 2016)

It's a 'torsion damascus' process Hinoura san uses in his River Jump line - which is unusual. Is it unique to him?


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## bonestter (Feb 6, 2016)

His son, Mutsumi-san, is making some nice looking knives too - at a much more 'useable' price as well

Has anyone tried these?



TheDispossessed said:


> Having never used a hinoura, I will say, for knives as thick as these, those look like some shallow bevels. I can easily see how these could be prone to wedging. If I'm not mistaken, hinoura is known for making outdoor knives. His bevels look similar in depth to Heijis who



I have heard his son's knives (below) are the same


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## preizzo (Feb 6, 2016)

I am using my hinoura only at home and I am pretty happy and careful at the same time. 
They are tools and they are meant to be use in a kitchen!


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## apathetic (Feb 6, 2016)

preizzo said:


> they are meant to be use in a kitchen!



I will second that


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## drawman623 (Feb 6, 2016)

I have a few Kitaeji Shigs and 1 River Jump Gyuto. Brainsausage summed up my opinion...the answer is based upon the owner's priority: use vs aesthetic.

As a home cook I feel I can only speak credibly to the latter.

The Hinoura blade is captivating to the eye. It has been said already that Hinoura is adept at melding natural form with his own mastery of the art. The visual transition from spine to edge take me from rough natural appearance to mirror polished refinement. It is striking and bold, a bigger statement in my opinion than the Shigefusa.
Where Shigefusa impresses me visually is in the subtle consistency of layering. There is a pattern in the number and spacing of the metal layers that quietly speaks to profound consistency of technique. 

I'm glad I have my River Jump...it is an experience to own. I'm Nakiri hunting now.


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