# 1st pistol



## cheflife15 (Mar 16, 2020)

Hey all. Working on getting my firearms permit. My brothers a cop so im looking to get a pistol to do some target shooting and for home defense (hopefully never needed). Whats a good first pistol? 

Nj laws


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## tgraypots (Mar 16, 2020)

CZ 75. I have a full size but have read/heard great things about the compact P07.


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## Caleb Cox (Mar 16, 2020)

Tom beat me to it, +1 for CZ75, I have one in stainless and love it.


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## tgraypots (Mar 16, 2020)

I am not an expert on handguns by any means, but I have put a lot of rounds through this at the range, and it's incredibly accurate and dependable. Good luck! Like chef's knives, this is another rabbit hole


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 16, 2020)

Go to a store and feel lots out. Many ranges offer rental guns. Whatever you choose has got to feel right for you.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 16, 2020)

oh forgot to add, the store thing is win-win situation. If you tell them you are there to buy your first pistol, they get the satisfaction knowing they'll make a sale and you get to feel up all the different pistols.


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## Noodle Soup (Mar 16, 2020)

Glock, probably a 19 if I were buying my first defensive pistol. Anything with the name Glock on it will be totally reliable. I've been carrying a 43X the last few months. Great concealment weapon.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 16, 2020)

The 9mm vs .45 debate is never ending in gun forums. You get more power with .45 but 9mm gets more rounds to put it loosely. We carried 9mm when I was active duty, but your needs may be situational.


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## Kgp (Mar 16, 2020)

If you are not going to carry, I’d suggest a 1911 chambered in 9mm. Kimber, Sig, Springfield all make nice ones. 

Ken


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## cheflife15 (Mar 16, 2020)

I dove down the rabbit hole now. Lots of people like the cz 75. Any one like the sig320? 
Now I'll check out the 1911.

Ultimately what I'm looking for is ease of firing, accuracy and reliability. 

Im trying to research All these things but man its a rabbit hole. I like the idea of going to the store to hold them but how will i know how they shoot, recoil, accuracy etc. 

Carrying isn't really a possibility for me in nj. It will be mostly for home and the range. Something with stopping power would be nice


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## nakneker (Mar 16, 2020)

I own a bunch, it’s the first Rabbithole I ever dove down and never came back up. I’m a 1911 guy, but I enjoy Glocks, Sigs, CZ75s and a whole bunch more. I have a Glock 19 in every vehicle I drive, I shoot them well, they work and they are easy to maintain but I think AKF gave you the same advice I would offer and that’s to try a few out. Pistols aren’t unlike knives, different strokes for different folks. Do you want a Double action, single action, open sights, red dot etc etc all come into play. Go put your hands on them, shoot them and you will find one that speaks to you. I would add to stay away from the low end junk... remember your buying one for self defense, buy some quality.

By the way, I live in Arizona if your wondering why I have one in every vehicle, because I can.


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## cheflife15 (Mar 16, 2020)

nakneker said:


> I own a bunch, it’s the first Rabbithole I ever dove down and never came back up. I’m a 1911 guy, but I enjoy Glocks, Sigs, CZ75s and a whole bunch more. I have a Glock 19 in every vehicle I drive, I shoot them well, they work and they are easy to maintain but I think AKF gave you the same advice I would offer and that’s to try a few out. Pistols aren’t unlike knives, different strokes for different folks. Do you want a Double action, single action, open sights, red dot etc etc all come into play. Go put your hands on them, shoot them and you will find one that speaks to you. I would add to stay away from the low end junk... remember your buying one for self defense, buy some quality.
> 
> By the way, I live in Arizona if your wondering why I have one in every vehicle, because I can.


Yeah we certainly can't do that here unfortunately. 

Do they let you fire them when you're purchasing?


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## nakneker (Mar 16, 2020)

Raleighcook15 said:


> Yeah we certainly can't do that here unfortunately.
> 
> Do they let you fire them when you're purchasing?


 Several gun stores have indoor ranges and you can do that. Most of them have a great selection and rent them to you, if you buy they apply the rent fee to the purchase. It’s a good way to go, as long as you have a knowledgeable salesman who is sincere in helping you decide and not pushing something on you.


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## Bert2368 (Mar 17, 2020)

You might want to consider handling a good quality .38/.357 revolver with a 4" to 6" barrel while you're groping guns and range testing. They aren't picky about shooting low recoil practice or target ammo, almost never fail to feed, stovepipe jam, eject hot brass which falls down into your shirt collar and gives you interesting burns, will never accidentally drop a magazine... And they point naturally really well for many people. Just sayin', don't hate on me.

The semi auto pistols come from 2 major families lately:

1: "Glock style" with a little drop safety lever on the trigger & no other safety but your brain and trigger finger discipline.

2: Most everything else, with a frame or slide mounted safety, plus possibly a grip safety and/or an exposed hammer.

If you start out "Glock style", these are safe as you yourself are careful and religeous about trigger finger discipline. And there are a few less things to remember and do when you're in a hurry and have a lot of adrenaline in your system (which wrecks your "fine motor skills"). Down side, children/stupid/inexperienced people who get hold of these pistols tend to have negligent discharges a bit more often.

If you start out with a conventional semi auto pistol with thumb operated safety and an exposed hammer, practice drawing and dry firing a LOT to burn into your muscle memory those couple of little extra checks on your pistol's status and the finger motions required to go from "safe & uncocked" to "ready to fire". (You should practice plenty with the Glock styles too, of course- Just buying a gun and putting it in a drawer is a fairly worthless move).

My personal favorite is hard to find and will be more expensive than most entry level pistols, but if they have one to rent, you might like to try an H&K P7 family pistol out:







These have an interesting feature, they are not cocked unless you pick them up and hold them firmly. NJ state police carried these for a while, during which time NOT ONE of them was shot with his own pistol. Find an old NJ trooper and ask him how they liked this weapon. Expect to hear him swear at the governor who took them away from the department a good bit...


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## cheflife15 (Mar 17, 2020)

Held a couple guns today. I felt i liked the sig 320 the most. I didnt see any of the cz 75. I held glocks, a sig, and something called an Arex rex lero 1xp? 

I found a range that lets you rent 3 guns at a time to try them. Once i get my license thatll be my first stop.


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## panda (Mar 17, 2020)

cz75 is freaking great!! be sure to try one before picking one
also try beretta m92


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## jacko9 (Mar 17, 2020)

My wife is a small woman 5' tall so she likes her Glock (Double Stack) and I like my Sig both in 9mm


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## merlin1 (Mar 17, 2020)

Sig 226 in .40 cal...good compromise between more rounds (9mm) and more horsepower (.45). Get one in your hands and you'll see what I mean; solid weapon.


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## cheflife15 (Mar 17, 2020)

How do you guys feel about used guns? What would i be looking for that I should avoid? Should i just get a new one?


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 17, 2020)

Used are fine, just have a gunsmith check it out. Most gun shops I've went to had one on staff.


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## HSC /// Knives (Mar 17, 2020)

first gun I bought 25+ yrs ago - glock 21
bought and sold many thru the years
I've had most of them, I suggest a Glock, or a Sig,
I just sold a Sig 228 (West German)
and the P7M8 went to my brother (keeping it in the family at least)

I have this one available - https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/colt-1911-45-many-wilson-combat-extras.45737/

As Jason said, used are fine, guns tend to hold their value.


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## Gjackson98 (Mar 17, 2020)

What state do you live in? It will probably help if you check your local gun law first.
For example If you are in CA, 10 rounds capacity limitation should be taking into consideration (some guns are not sold in CA, for example Gen4 and Gen5 Glocks I believe).

Have you thought about CCW? If so maybe a smaller pistol can do both home protection and carry protection.

My first pistol and the gun I practice the most is my glock 19


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## HSC /// Knives (Mar 17, 2020)

nakneker said:


> I own a bunch, it’s the first Rabbithole I ever dove down and never came back up. I’m a 1911 guy, but I enjoy Glocks, Sigs, CZ75s and a whole bunch more. I have a Glock 19 in every vehicle I drive, I shoot them well, they work and they are easy to maintain but I think AKF gave you the same advice I would offer and that’s to try a few out. Pistols aren’t unlike knives, different strokes for different folks. Do you want a Double action, single action, open sights, red dot etc etc all come into play. Go put your hands on them, shoot them and you will find one that speaks to you. I would add to stay away from the low end junk... remember your buying one for self defense, buy some quality.
> 
> By the way, I live in Arizona if your wondering why I have one in every vehicle, because I can.



AZ love


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 17, 2020)

I'm also a member on AR15.com

Good place for info and enthusiasts.


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## bahamaroot (Mar 18, 2020)

Sig 229 .40 is a great carry gun.


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## cheflife15 (Mar 18, 2020)

Gjackson98 said:


> What state do you live in? It will probably help if you check your local gun law first.
> For example If you are in CA, 10 rounds capacity limitation should be taking into consideration (some guns are not sold in CA, for example Gen4 and Gen5 Glocks I believe).
> 
> Have you thought about CCW? If so maybe a smaller pistol can do both home protection and carry protection.
> ...



Im in nj so it is 10 round capacity and close to impossible to get a concealed carry permit.


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## applepieforbreakfast (Mar 18, 2020)

I'd go for something striker fired for your first handgun. You won't have to learn two trigger pulls, like you would with a DA/SA. Glock 17, H&K VP9, Sig P320, S&W M&P2.0 9, Springfield XDm 9 would all fit the bill. Also, I'd suggest a full-size, instead of a compact, since you won't be concealing. Full-size handguns are just plain easier to shoot.

Stopping power is a myth. Modern bullet design has pretty much leveled the playing field among the big 3 handgun calibers (9mm, .40, .45).


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 18, 2020)

Oh NJ, I'm not far from you cause I'm in SE PA. Check with local laws for limitations. NJ is a bit of a commie state, but I'll leave the opinions limited.


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## vicv (Mar 18, 2020)

I will agree with an above post to not forget about a good revolver. Bullet shape or power level don't affect it. Doesn't jam. If there's a failure with a round just squeeze the trigger for the next one. And if it's not dead in five or six shots you're in trouble


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## daveb (Mar 18, 2020)

Helped my sister shop for a first (and only) gun for personal protection. Got her into a 38 revolver for reasons cited above, and it's pretty much idiot proof, pull the trigger and bullets come out the front. If you're comfortable with a larger size, a revolver chambered for .357 will allow you to practice with 38 and then stored with 357.

My own pistol choice is a Glock 21. It will give me time to get to the shotgun(s).


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 18, 2020)

While its hard to argue with a Glock recommendation, my personal CCW switches from a Springfield Arms XD .45 and a Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 2.0 in 9mm.


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## merlin1 (Mar 18, 2020)

bahamaroot said:


> Sig 229 .40 is a great carry gun.



+1


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## cheflife15 (Mar 18, 2020)

merlin1 said:


> +1


There will be no carrying here as nj laws suck. I wish i got more than one permit. I didnt know you need one for each gun. Any idea if the permit stays with the gun or if i can sell one and buy a different pistol?


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## bahamaroot (Mar 18, 2020)

When my wife got her CDW permit I took her to a dealer and she picked out the Ruger LC9. I tried to talk her out of it and into a .38 revolver but she insisted. She liked the look and feel. I told her when she shot it you better hold on tight, a gun that small in 9mm will jump right out of your hands! She seemed fine with it in the end though.


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## bahamaroot (Mar 18, 2020)

Raleighcook15 said:


> There will be no carrying here as nj laws suck. I wish i got more than one permit...


Since this won't be a carry gun, like suggested earlier, a full size pistol has much less recoil and is easier to handle.

My "just for gun".  S&W 686 6" .357 mag.


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## Kgp (Mar 18, 2020)

That S&W looks sweet! I’ve been craving a Python but I’m waiting for the hype to die down on the new ones or prices to ge back to reality on the old ones.


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## panda (Mar 18, 2020)

bahamaroot said:


> Since this won't be a carry gun, like suggested earlier, a full size pistol has much less recoil and is easier to handle.
> 
> My "just for gun".  S&W 686 6" .357 mag.
> 
> View attachment 74350


this is awesome


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## bkultra (Mar 18, 2020)

My current carry is a S&W 64-2 (2" barrel). It was my grandfather's and with the +p hollow point rounds it's a man stopper.

#oldschoolcool


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## cheflife15 (Mar 18, 2020)

bkultra said:


> My current carry is a S&W 642 (2" barrel). It was my grandfather's and with the +p hollow point rounds it's a man stopper.


Hallow points are a no go in jersey


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## bkultra (Mar 18, 2020)

One of the few states with worse gun laws than mine (IL)


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## daveb (Mar 18, 2020)

Raleighcook15 said:


> Hallow points are a no go in jersey



Cause they kill the bad guys too dead?


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## bkultra (Mar 18, 2020)

NJ has to weld on muzzle brakes for some unknown reason


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## cheflife15 (Mar 18, 2020)

Ive been binge watching YouTube videos since im quarantined and I'm really liking tje cz 75 tactical. Im going to try and handle one when i get a chance. I imagine i wont receive my license for a month or so so im gunna try and hold as many as I can.


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## bkultra (Mar 18, 2020)

Check out the cz shadow 2 as well, very nice/fun gun.


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## cheflife15 (Mar 18, 2020)

bkultra said:


> Check out the cz shadow 2 as well, very nice/fun gun.


A bit outside my price range. I think 1000 is as much as ill throw at this. 700 for the gun, 2 in ammo and 1 in range time? Im sure I'll go over. Im already looking at a possible rifle or shot gun next. You might see some knives for sale shortly


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## bkultra (Mar 19, 2020)

If you want to save money don't get into rifles or shotguns.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 19, 2020)

bkultra said:


> If you want to save money don't get into rifles or shotguns.


You said it. This hobby makes kitchen knives look cheap. Oh, ammo is a major component of cost too.


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## bkultra (Mar 19, 2020)

The above is setup for 6.5CM, but I also have bolt,mag, barrel for 300NM.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 19, 2020)

Gorgeous, whats your scope?


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## bkultra (Mar 19, 2020)

Tangent Theta with gen 3 xr reticle


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## Kgp (Mar 19, 2020)

bkultra said:


> If you want to save money don't get into rifles or shotguns.


You are correct! Just picked up a Beretta DT 11 for sporting clays. Traded in a Cooper 52 in .270 as partial payment. Opened this wormhole long before knives. Glad to have both. 

Ken


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## panda (Mar 19, 2020)

bkultra said:


> View attachment 74392
> 
> 
> The above is setup for 6.5CM, but I also have bolt,mag, barrel for 300NM.


Don't piss in this guy's Cheerios


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## cheflife15 (Mar 19, 2020)

The more i read about rifles here in nj, the more i hear they're unimpressive. I wish i put in for more pistol permits as each gun requires one.


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## panda (Mar 19, 2020)

Raleighcook15 said:


> The more i read about rifles here in nj, the more i hear they're unimpressive. I wish i put in for more pistol permits as each gun requires one.


Old lever action 30-30 rifles are a lot of fun. As are over/under shotguns. Out in Carolina, I'm sure there are an abundance of outdoor ranges where you can do plinking!! Just get a 1911 in 9mm for that! If you don't mind the ammo cost of .45 rounds, I'd just get the one for sale in BST right now..


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## Kgp (Mar 19, 2020)

Raleighcook15 said:


> The more i read about rifles here in nj, the more i hear they're unimpressive. I wish i put in for more pistol permits as each gun requires one.


Rifles are fun, but, just like hand guns, I pretty much just use mine to punch holes in paper. However, clays shooting is much more interactive. Trap, skeet, and sporting clays are a great way to relieve some stress. Can't beat the experience of seeing a clay bird vaporize from your shot and the smell of gunpowder hanging in the air!

Ken


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## bkultra (Mar 19, 2020)

panda said:


> Don't piss in this guy's Cheerios



Toilet paper overwatch.


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## cheflife15 (Mar 19, 2020)

panda said:


> Old lever action 30-30 rifles are a lot of fun. As are over/under shotguns. Out in Carolina, I'm sure there are an abundance of outdoor ranges where you can do plinking!! Just get a 1911 in 9mm for that! If you don't mind the ammo cost of .45 rounds, I'd just get the one for sale in BST right now..


Unfortunately I'm no longer really raleighcook15 , I moved to nj about 3 years ago for my lovely future fiance


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## cheflife15 (Mar 19, 2020)

bkultra said:


> Check out the cz shadow 2 as well, very nice/fun gun.


Should i just throw more money at this and go for this instead? What are the benefits? Is it more accurate?


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## bkultra (Mar 19, 2020)

Go check out all the guns on your list... Hold them, shoot them if you can. It's very personal and subjective.


Having said that if you shoot something like the CZ Shadow 2, you'll know the difference. Whether that difference is worse the extra coin is something only you can decide.

Hell if I got you thinking about jumping up to the Shadow's price range, why not a STI? Or go nuts with a custom Cabot (forget about the year plus wait and $$$). The point is there is always something "better", but you have to draw the line.

Edit: to give you an idea about rifles, the one I posted was 10k with the 300NM conversion. The scope is $4600, tripod $1.3k, bipod $500, etc


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 19, 2020)

Just to repeat the post above, its very subjective and get the one YOU want.


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## panda (Mar 19, 2020)

Just so you know, the regular cz75 sp-01 is badass enough. I definitely want a customized one in the future.


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## daveb (Mar 19, 2020)

bkultra said:


> Edit: to give you an idea about rifles, the one I posted was 10k with the 300NM conversion. The scope is $4600, tripod $1.3k, bipod $500, etc



Can I borrow it for next year's deer season? You'll have the summer to put together a 308 barrel, bolt, mag....


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## cheflife15 (Mar 19, 2020)

panda said:


> Just so you know, the regular cz75 sp-01 is badass enough. I definitely want a customized one in the future.


What type of customizations would you do?


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## panda (Mar 19, 2020)

upgraded single action only trigger, upgraded hammer, 3 dot tritium sights, extended slide stop and mag release


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## bkultra (Mar 19, 2020)

daveb said:


> Can I borrow it for next year's deer season? You'll have the summer to put together a 308 barrel, bolt, mag....



I have the bolt and mags (same bolt face and mags as the 6.5), only need the barrel in 308. Been looking for a reason to get a 308 spun up. Do you like hunting with a 21lbs rifle?

Also this thread has given me a project. I'm now putting a near mirror polish on the 64-2. Two hours of hand polishing today, only 20 more to go. But I've got the time.


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## cheflife15 (Mar 19, 2020)

Started pricing and reading about magazines. Are these interchangeable between types, tactical, shadow, 75sp01? Why the difference in prices for these? Nj can only have 10 rounds per magazine.


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## bkultra (Mar 20, 2020)

It's a case by case basis, some are interchangeable, many are not. Often an increase in price means an increase of quality of materials. usually with just a little bit of research you could find what people consider to be the gold standard for any given weapon system.


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## cheflife15 (Mar 20, 2020)

bkultra said:


> It's a case by case basis, some are interchangeable, many are not. Often an increase in price means an increase of quality of materials. usually with just a little bit of research you could find what people consider to be the gold standard for any given weapon system.


Actually just joined a forum for it. I feel like im learning a whole new language. Thanks for the help thus far!


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## bkultra (Mar 20, 2020)

No problem, you are doing it right... Keep taking your time, then practice with your chosen gun (a lot). You can't buy skill


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## bkultra (Mar 20, 2020)

I use the same user name on snipers hide. Her is a link to the a custom Cabot I mentioned, and no this is not something you buy as a first gun. 

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/well-think-i’ve-hit-my-peak-for-sidearms.6988293/#post-8326806


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## cheflife15 (Mar 20, 2020)

bkultra said:


> I use the same user name on snipers hide. Her is a link to the a custom Cabot I mentioned, and no this is not something you buy as a first gun.
> 
> https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/well-think-i’ve-hit-my-peak-for-sidearms.6988293/#post-8326806


Thats a badass looking gun. I actually joined a specific cz forum. Figured it would be a good place to start.


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## panda (Mar 20, 2020)

bkultra said:


> No problem, you are doing it right... Keep taking your time, then practice with your chosen gun (a lot). You can't buy skill



I've put nearly 3000 rounds through my first pistol and i still suck, lol
Granted I don't really try either, just blast away because it is so fun. I'd much rather do plinking but I have to go way the [email protected] out of my way to do it. Local range is convenient and cheap.


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## panda (Mar 20, 2020)

bkultra said:


> I use the same user name on snipers hide. Her is a link to the a custom Cabot I mentioned, and no this is not something you buy as a first gun.
> 
> https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/well-think-i’ve-hit-my-peak-for-sidearms.6988293/#post-8326806


Cabot is a brand of cheese also. That thing looks sexy. My next 1911 will be a Les baer, the opposite of sexy haha.


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## bkultra (Mar 20, 2020)

panda said:


> Cabot is a brand of cheese also. That thing looks sexy. My next 1911 will be a Les baer, the opposite of sexy haha.



Sounds about right for you. Hopefully you're getting those pink lacquer hello Kitty grips.


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## panda (Mar 20, 2020)

Hellz yeah I am!! Hello kitty 4 lyfe


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## panda (Mar 20, 2020)

bkultra said:


> Sounds about right for you. Hopefully you're getting those pink lacquer hello Kitty grips.


Right?? Just like my knives and any other thing, purely function over form.


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## bkultra (Mar 21, 2020)

Raleighcook15 said:


> Hallow points are a no go in jersey



I little late, but EFMJs are the NJ legal form of hollow points. Assuming you want a self-defense round.


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## cheflife15 (Mar 26, 2020)

bkultra said:


> I little late, but EFMJs are the NJ legal form of hollow points. Assuming you want a self-defense round.


Interesting and if i reading all this properly, they're legal in the home, just can't bring them to the range or carry.


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## bkultra (Mar 26, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> Interesting and if i reading all this properly, they're legal in the home, just can't bring them to the range or carry.



If you are referring to hollow points, that was the case last time I checked (but not worth it in any case). EFMJs were the best alternative for people that lived in a state with similar bans of HPs.


Hell I live in the Communist state of IL and you guys make us look good with regards to gun laws. I'm just hoping we allow sound suppressors one day. Why I can't have a device that protects my hearing in unknown to me... Like "fully semiautomatic"


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## bahamaroot (Mar 26, 2020)

I can legally open carry with hollow points with no permit in Kentucky but have to get a permit to pull my shirt over it.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 26, 2020)

Background checks for concealed weapons and hollow points are completely unrelated.


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## bkultra (Mar 30, 2020)

Help, I've developed a case of gunorrhea. I'm now looking at a Kimber K6 (3”) DA/SA.


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## daveb (Mar 30, 2020)

That would rock your world.


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## bkultra (Mar 30, 2020)

I have a bad feeling it might follow me home, after a 72 hour waiting period (required by law in my State)


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## cheflife15 (Mar 30, 2020)

bkultra said:


> Help, I've developed a case of gunorrhea. I'm now looking at a Kimber K6 (3”) DA/SA.
> 
> View attachment 75481


Nice! I actually applied for 2 permits. Maybe ill add this to my short list. All the gun shops in nj are closed until coronavirus is over


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## panda (Mar 30, 2020)

bkultra said:


> Help, I've developed a case of gunorrhea. I'm now looking at a Kimber K6 (3”) DA/SA.
> 
> View attachment 75481


i want this one


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## cheflife15 (Mar 30, 2020)

panda said:


> i want this one


Thats the rhino right? Ive watched alot of videos on this. It shoots from the bottom cylander to reduce recoil. It looks very cool, its just out of my price range if i get the shadow 2. If you pull the trigger  id love to know your thoughts on it.


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## cheflife15 (Mar 30, 2020)

bkultra said:


> Help, I've developed a case of gunorrhea. I'm now looking at a Kimber K6 (3”) DA/SA.
> 
> View attachment 75481


Can i ask why you're leaning towards this?


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## panda (Mar 30, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> Thats the rhino right? Ive watched alot of videos on this. It shoots from the bottom cylander to reduce recoil. It looks very cool, its just out of my price range if i get the shadow 2. If you pull the trigger  id love to know your thoughts on it.


jk, that thing is hideous! if i get a revolver it would have to be a colt python in 6" blued. guess i'm a bit old school in all my hobbies. 
im excited for you to get a shadow2 though!!


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## cheflife15 (Mar 30, 2020)

panda said:


> jk, that thing is hideous! if i get a revolver it would have to be a colt python in 6" blued.
> im excited for you to get a shadow2 though!!


It may be ugly but im curious how it shoots. Now ill be googling the python, although that's probably way outside my initial price range


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## bahamaroot (Mar 30, 2020)

panda said:


> ...if i get a revolver it would have to be a colt python in 6" blued...


Those are flipped and more overpriced than a Kato.


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## panda (Mar 30, 2020)

bahamaroot said:


> Those are flipped and more overpriced than a Kato.


colt has re-released production and apparently the new version is even better than the original.


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## bkultra (Mar 31, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> Can i ask why you're leaning towards this?



I own more than a few firearms, I look for something new or different a lot. Lately it's been wheel guns. The picture I posted of the 64-2 was made in 1981 (only a few months younger than me). It has a pinned barrel (S&W stopped this in 1982)...

So I've wanted a S&W 65 3" (P&R, so pre 1982). These are hard to find in good shape and demand a premium. The Kimber K6 is the lightest, but not too light, 3" .357 and would fill the same role. It's also very well thought out (reduced thickness at the cylinder, rounded out everything, even the cylinder release is a push button and not a slide release). I prefer revolvers for home defense guns and this would definitely be up to that task


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## bkultra (Mar 31, 2020)

panda said:


> colt has re-released production and apparently the new version is even better than the original.



Be warned that the 2020 Colt python has a few issues to work out. Mainly light primer strikes and cylinder lockup. In fact Colt released a video acknowledging these issues.


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## thebradleycrew (Apr 1, 2020)

My two cents: the new Colt Python is nothing close to the original in terms of quality. Way back when, the original Pythons were built primarily by hand - everything fitted and finished by Colt's custom shop. That is the reason the old Pythons were so expensive relative to, say, most of the S&W revolvers of the time. They were almost ahead of their time in many regards (in terms of the custom shop work) but the price kept sales low. As a result, they discontinued them. Obviously they are back now, but with a more "production" version of the gun. The old Python's today are worth a heck of a lot of money for decent reason! Find an old one, skip the new one!


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## bahamaroot (Apr 2, 2020)

A re-release of something that was discontinued 30 years ago is not going to be the same product. Just something with the same name.


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## cheflife15 (Apr 2, 2020)

So my backround check cleared meaning i should be getting my license soon. 2 quick questions

Referring to the shadow 2, is decocking the gun without a decocker dangerous? 

Is the trigger pull too light? 
Im seeing that triggers under 4# shouldn't be used for home defense. This is 3.75, i feel like with proper trigger dicipline it shoukdnt be an issue?

ive had too much time to overthink.


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## thebradleycrew (Apr 2, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> So my backround check cleared meaning i should be getting my license soon. 2 quick questions
> 
> Referring to the shadow 2, is decocking the gun without a decocker dangerous?
> 
> ...


My thoughts (of but one person):
1. Decocking a SA/DA gun is personal preference and not dangerous so long as the gun has a decocking lever. It's designed as a safety feature but doing so isn't required to shoot or carry the gun. I carry my SA/DA guns ready in SA because I prefer the trigger pull. 
2. Don't be worried about triggers unless you are talking precision rifle triggers, which aren't set up for handguns. I run one of my 1911's at 2.5lbs and it's crisp, clean and I wouldn't want it any other way. You won't be able to tell the difference between 3.75 and 4 lbs and gun to gun variations can exceed that difference easily. Practice trigger discipline, as you well noted.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Apr 2, 2020)

Where do live that you need a license? 

Not into revolvers, though I may be able to assist with others.


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## cheflife15 (Apr 2, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Where do live that you need a license?
> 
> Not into revolvers, though I may be able to assist with others.


Nj... Unfortunately haha.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Apr 2, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> Nj... Unfortunately haha.


I live in SE PA near the DE border and work with a lot of NJ residents. I'm sorry.


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## panda (Apr 2, 2020)

bkultra said:


> Be warned that the 2020 Colt python has a few issues to work out. Mainly light primer strikes and cylinder lockup. In fact Colt released a video acknowledging these issues.



im hoping the issues cause people to sell them for cheap on used market lol


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## applepieforbreakfast (Apr 2, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> So my backround check cleared meaning i should be getting my license soon. 2 quick questions
> 
> Referring to the shadow 2, is decocking the gun without a decocker dangerous?
> 
> ...



Decocking without a decocker isn't dangerous. As long as you don't let go of the hammer in the process, it won't go bang. Pretty sure the Shadow 2 doesn't have a firing pin block safety.

Personally, for a *dedicated* HD gun, I wouldn't go below 4-5 lbs. This would probably be a good time to figure out if this is going to be your one and only, or the first of many.


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## bkultra (Apr 2, 2020)

This is one of the reasons I prefer a wheel gun for home defense. Perfect trigger pull in DA when you wake up and are still groggy. Very difficult to have a ND/AD (negligent discharge / accidental discharge).


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## bkultra (Apr 2, 2020)

panda said:


> im hoping the issues cause people to sell them for cheap on used market lol



I prefer the old school version, but its $$$ in good condition. Also if the old Colt breaks it's much harder to get fixed or find parts (we are talking many months to a year). Another reason I prefer my old school S&W

For anyone looking for a CCW/HD revolver, give the Kimber K6 (I prefer the 3" version for the .357) a hard look.

Edit: and for the record, most of my life I was a hardcore semi-auto only kind of guy. Used to laugh at the idea of going to an "outdated" technology like the revolvers, that is until I tried one.


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## na65257n (Apr 2, 2020)

applepieforbreakfast said:


> Decocking without a decocker isn't dangerous. As long as you don't let go of the hammer in the process, it won't go bang. Pretty sure the Shadow 2 doesn't have a firing pin block safety.
> 
> Personally, for a *dedicated* HD gun, I wouldn't go below 4-5 lbs. This would probably be a good time to figure out if this is going to be your one and only, or the first of many.


I rememeber when i bought my first chef knife, i said this will last a few years. I've since bought 30 or so. This certainly won't be my only pistol. At 3.75 i feel like it's essentially 4 lbs. Im going to take some classes and work with my brother whose a cop. Itll be 99 percent for shooting targets but until i get the next one it'll be for the home too. Luckily i live in a relatively safe town (knock on wood).


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## bkultra (Apr 2, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> Is the trigger pull too light?
> Im seeing that triggers under 4# shouldn't be used for home defense. This is 3.75, i feel like with proper trigger dicipline it shoukdnt be an issue?



My main interest is precision rifles (ELR) and I'm a bit picky when it comes to triggers, to say the least. I would have a very hard time believing you would be able to discern the difference between 3.75 and a 4 pound trigger pull. You can also increase the weight of the trigger pull. This is usually accomplished by replacing a trigger spring. Keep in mind the Shadow 2 is a competition gun, hence the lighter trigger.


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## bkultra (Apr 2, 2020)

Welcome to the forum @na65257n


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## cheflife15 (Apr 2, 2020)

bkultra said:


> My main interest is precision rifles (ELR) and I'm a bit picky when it comes to triggers, to say the least. I would have a very hard time believing you would be able to discern the difference between 3.75 and a 4 pound trigger pull. You can also increase the weight of the trigger pull. This is usually accomplished by replacing a trigger spring. Keep in mind the Shadow 2 is a competition gun, hence the lighter trigger.


Yeah im thinking it will be ok. It will be the first of many pistols. Ive seen glock has a standard pull of 5. It seems alot of comp guns go in the 2s. I think trigger dicipline will still be key. As far as waking up groggy, i have adt security and once that's tripped, you're awake.


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## cheflife15 (Apr 2, 2020)

bkultra said:


> My main interest is precision rifles (ELR) and I'm a bit picky when it comes to triggers, to say the least. I would have a very hard time believing you would be able to discern the difference between 3.75 and a 4 pound trigger pull. You can also increase the weight of the trigger pull. This is usually accomplished by replacing a trigger spring. Keep in mind the Shadow 2 is a competition gun, hence the lighter trigger.


The trigger pull im talking about is also wheb its in single action. Double action it is higher, about 7.


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## bkultra (Apr 3, 2020)

Always use DA for self-defense. SA is for the range.


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## panda (Apr 3, 2020)

Self defense, just use a double barrel shotgun.


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## daveb (Apr 3, 2020)

My Glock is just to make some noise and give me time to get to the Benelli. I couldn't hit a wall from inside a barn with a pistol. 

Double barrel? 5 > 2.


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 3, 2020)

1st pistol? I’m gonna say a .22. I have the Browning Buckmark Countour. It’s my 4th pistol. Now having owned it, I shoot all my handguns way better. I got coached a bit too using the .22. It is stupid accurate. Having said that; if it was legal to own the new .22 Ruger I would have gone that route. It’s easier to clean. Also crazy accurate. ( I tried to get my mom to buy one since she can legally give it to me). California is odd in some departments. 

it is so much fun to shoot. When I go out to cut firewood that is always the pistol I take. I outshoot everyone. It’s cheap to shoot as well, so I just go crazy. No need to conserve ammo. 

defense? Maybe. CCI makes a very hot round called the VELOCITOR. it can pop a jack rabbit. It’s very hot. You can’t shoot it from older guns. It would hurt bad. 

.22. 
Learn good shooting habits. No flinching. Good trigger mechanics. 
Cheap
Accurate 
Funnest handgun I own.


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## Kgp (Apr 3, 2020)

boomchakabowwow said:


> 1st pistol? I’m gonna say a .22. I have the Browning Buckmark Countour. It’s my 4th pistol. Now having owned it, I shoot all my handguns way better. I got coached a bit too using the .22. It is stupid accurate. Having said that; if it was legal to own the new .22 Ruger I would have gone that route. It’s easier to clean. Also crazy accurate. ( I tried to get my mom to buy one since she can legally give it to me). California is odd in some departments.
> 
> it is so much fun to shoot. When I go out to cut firewood that is always the pistol I take. I outshoot everyone. It’s cheap to shoot as well, so I just go crazy. No need to conserve ammo.
> 
> ...


Why is the Mark IV illegal in your state?


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 3, 2020)

2nd pistol? mine was a free Sig226 my brother gave me. He joined SWAT and they had a mandated gun. Free Sig! It was heavily shot. Patina? Oh yes. I put new springs in the mags and never had an issue. It is very accurate to me. 9mm. 
My wife is also very accurate with it. 

my home gun is a Glock SF21. The G21 is the swat gun. Less accurate for me. I attribute that to the heavier recoil. 

if I could go and shoot right now during this lock-down. It would save my sanity.


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 3, 2020)

Kgp said:


> Why is the Mark IV illegal in your state?




California has a list of gun they allow. Ruger would not pay the money to qualify it here. Sucks. It’s my first step if I want to buy a gun. I check that list. 
I can however get one gifted or get one in an inheritance. By a parent. 

California does some things right. I love it here. But some stuff is retarded.


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## Kgp (Apr 3, 2020)

If you adopt me, I'll give you mine!


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 3, 2020)

Hmmmmm. They may have just relaxed a bit. I might be able to get one thru a private sake. I’ll buy my brothers!

research time!


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Apr 3, 2020)

I lived in CA before I retired from the .mil and loved it. Lived near Napa Valley in Vacaville (same place as Running Man knives). My wife is from Sacramento. While I love some aspects, the gun laws there are too restrictive for me to want to move back.


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 3, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I lived in CA before I retired from the .mil and loved it. Lived near Napa Valley in Vacaville (same place as Running Man knives). My wife is from Sacramento. While I love some aspects, the gun laws there are too restrictive for me to want to move back.


I’m in Santa Rosa. I know Vacaville well.!

if I leave. It won’t be because of the guns. I’m a fan, but not a rabid gun fan.
It will be because of cost. Sell my house and buy a shack somewhere.


Back to gun. Straight up self defense. Glock. No muss no fuss. No safety, no nonsense. 

I could fire it blind. I wouldn’t, but just making a point. Like if the zombie clawed out my eyes and I needed to kill my self. .


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## bahamaroot (Apr 3, 2020)

Glock - striker fire with no safety = highest rate of accidental discharges.


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 3, 2020)

bahamaroot said:


> Glock - striker fire with no safety = highest rate of accidental discharges.


 true..but the most basic gun safety procedures burned into your brain and muscle memory should prevent this.

having said that, i think 90% of the gun owners out there dont practice enough. i know i dont. when i got my glock, my brother let me do this firing course they train on. i absolutely sucked. goinng thru a building, moving amongst cars, it was tough. very tough. 

i would need to drill drill and do more drills. 

that is why i shoot my .22 a lot.


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## cheflife15 (Apr 3, 2020)

bahamaroot said:


> Glock - striker fire with no safety = highest rate of accidental discharges.


Ive been going back and forth alot on what im getting. Now im feeling the lack of a firing safety pin to be slightly unnerving. So im going to change my reqeuirements.

Price:1500
Want rather accurate (once I become a good shooter). Its not fun to me if i miss.
Want it aesthetic and reliable.
Prefer firing safety block
It won't be carried so weight isnt an issue.
Prefer 9mm but this gun sounds fun

https://www.gardenstatearmory.com/handguns/semi-automatic-handguns/sig-1911-stand-45acp-5-7rd

5#pull Sao sounds responsible right? I really need to rent some guns. Theres too many options.

https://store.heritageguild.com/han...r-style-rear-sights-2-magazines-9rd-o5072xe-1
Maybe ill splurge?

Trying to figure it if they both have firing pin safety block

(Ps as far as home defense goes i think im just going to go with the shot gun too)

Edit part 2 
(After googling it seems it would most likely be ok of good forbid i dropped it, I also don't plank on dropping it, just looking for more options o guess)


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 4, 2020)

Oh. Your budget is that healthy?!

Heckler and Koch! Get a P30 or something.


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## panda (Apr 4, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> Ive been going back and forth alot on what im getting. Now im feeling the lack of a firing safety pin to be slightly unnerving. So im going to change my reqeuirements.
> 
> Price:1500
> Want rather accurate (once I become a good shooter). Its not fun to me if i miss.
> ...


https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-review-sig-sauer-p210-target-9mm-pistol/


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## Dave Kinogie (Apr 4, 2020)

Like all types of pistols, but I'm a 1911 guy at heart. 

With $1500 you should just apply for another PPP, and cop 2 guns. Cop a basic but nice used 9, something like a Taurus, Glock 19, Hi Power, Beretta or a .357 revolver, maybe like a S&W 686 with a 4 inch barrel, you can put .38's through it all day and then pickup a nice 1911 in .45 or .38 Super. Or get a nice plinker in .22 for like $300-400 and splurge the rest on a 1911 like a Springfield Armory, Les Bauer, Kimber, Sig, STI, Colt Gold Cup National Match, etc. 

There's a million ways you can go though.


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## bkultra (Apr 4, 2020)

When you say first gun, I assume you also are new to shooting in general. If that's the case I would say start with a more forgiving round (like a 9mm etc). You don't want to develop a bad habit like flinching from the recoil. Also follow up shots are very important and it will be easier to stay on target if you can manage the recoil.


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## cheflife15 (Apr 4, 2020)

bkultra said:


> When you say first gun, I assume you also are new to shooting in general. If that's the case I would say start with a more forgiving round (like a 9mm etc). You don't want to develop a bad habit like flinching from the recoil. Also follow up shots are very important and it will be easier to stay on target if you can manage the recoil.


Yeah 9 mm is definitely the direction I want to go. Part of me is still leaning towards the shadow, shotgun combo. As far as the firing safety pin, everything i read about the shadow says it needs a substantial drop, almost directly on the muzzle for an accidental discharge.


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## cheflife15 (Apr 4, 2020)

Dave Kinogie said:


> Like all types of pistols, but I'm a 1911 guy at heart.
> 
> With $1500 you should just apply for another PPP, and cop 2 guns. Cop a basic but nice used 9, something like a Taurus, Glock 19, Hi Power, Beretta or a .357 revolver, maybe like a S&W 686 with a 4 inch barrel, you can put .38's through it all day and then pickup a nice 1911 in .45 or .38 Super. Or get a nice plinker in .22 for like $300-400 and splurge the rest on a 1911 like a Springfield Armory, Les Bauer, Kimber, Sig, STI, Colt Gold Cup National Match, etc.
> 
> There's a million ways you can go though.


Do most 1911 have firing pin blocks? I can't seem to find it the colt has it or not.


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## Dave Kinogie (Apr 5, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> Do most 1911 have firing pin blocks? I can't seem to find it the colt has it or not.


You have to research gun by gun.

Disclaimer, I don't get to shoot much anymore and am in the process of getting my ID card and PPP's right now, but grew up shooting. I still go trap/skeet once or twice a year but haven't fired a pistol in probably 8 years. I try to stay up on my handguns too though. Iirc 80 series Colts began the trend of the firing pin block on 1911's, but a solid amount of the modern non-Colt ones don't have it. I do know I got a 80 series 1911 as a birthday/Christmas present when I was in my teens and was an avid shooter, a marksman at that and maybe nostalgically/anecdotally don't remember all the negatives of trigger pull and the such from that gun. It was also smithed with a lighter comp trigger, skeletonized hammer, custom sights and a beautiful set of grips, so maybe that was it. Was probably the most expensive and best gift I've ever received. Put thousands of rounds through it with my grandfather before he got too sick to bring me and a best friend's of mine dad has held onto it for me since and used it.


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## Mingooch (Apr 5, 2020)

My personal favorite is hard to find and will be more expensive than most entry level pistols, but if they have one to rent, you might like to try an H&K P7 family pistol out:

View attachment 74241


These have an interesting feature, they are not cocked unless you pick them up and hold them firmly. NJ state police carried these for a while, during which time NOT ONE of them was shot with his own pistol. Find an old NJ trooper and ask him how they liked this weapon. Expect to hear him swear at the governor who took them away from the department a good bit...[/QUOTE]


As a NJ law enforcement officer that did carry the H&K, I totally agree. Loved that gun. Miss it to this day. My current glock doesnt come close IMHO


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 5, 2020)

Some thing to consider is the availability of magazines and holsters to fit the pistol. Buying the coolest, latest, model, may not work. I've found that out the hard way several times. Glock, Colt, S&W, Ruger, and Sig, will usually work.


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## roughrider (Apr 14, 2020)

panda said:


> Cabot is a brand of cheese also. That thing looks sexy. My next 1911 will be a Les baer, the opposite of sexy haha.



Check out the Dan Wesson 1911 models. I've heard nothing but good things about them.


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## roughrider (Apr 14, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I lived in CA before I retired from the .mil and loved it. Lived near Napa Valley in Vacaville (same place as Running Man knives). My wife is from Sacramento. While I love some aspects, the gun laws there are too restrictive for me to want to move back.



I live in the Bay Area. I travel out of state a lot for work, usually the South. It makes me sad and I shake my head when you think about the nonsense us California residents have to put up with when you visit a free state.


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## daveb (Apr 14, 2020)

roughrider said:


> Check out the Dan Wesson 1911 models. I've heard nothing but good things about them.



Almost bought Dan Wesson revolvers a few times. Did not know he made pistols as well.


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## Kgp (Apr 14, 2020)

daveb said:


> Almost bought Dan Wesson revolvers a few times. Did not know he made pistols as well.


Wesson is now part of CZ.


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## panda (Apr 14, 2020)

i definitely want a CZ shadow


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## bkultra (Apr 14, 2020)

The Shadow 2 is one of my favorite production guns. Keep in mind I don't consider STIs as "production".


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## rebornhj (Apr 19, 2020)

I wanted to get Glock 19 but they are all sold out.
I bought Smith&Wesson M2.0 full size and Sig M11-A1.


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## panda (Apr 19, 2020)

bkultra said:


> The Shadow 2 is one of my favorite production guns. Keep in mind I don't consider STIs as "production".


Can't wait to switch out the sights on my STI


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## applepieforbreakfast (Apr 19, 2020)

bkultra said:


> The Shadow 2 is one of my favorite production guns. Keep in mind I don't consider STIs as "production".



STI is production, albeit, similar to Nighthawk, Wilson, and Ed Brown, etc.

SVI is not production.


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## roughrider (Apr 19, 2020)

rebornhj said:


> I wanted to get Glock 19 but they are all sold out.
> I bought Smith&Wesson M2.0 full size and Sig M11-A1.



The S&W MP is a good pistol. The Arex and Canik pistols also get good reviews.


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## Kgp (Apr 19, 2020)

Anyone shoot the Sig 210 Target? Looks sweet but pricey.


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## cheflife15 (Apr 19, 2020)

Kgp said:


> Anyone shoot the Sig 210 Target? Looks sweet but pricey.


Theres a YouTube named honest outlaw who just reviewed it.

So i went in a total different direction after researching for a couple weeks. I decided to go with the cz tactical for the home defense gun. It was a good price and has a decocker, firing pin block and has cz reliability. I took the extra money and bought a walther ppq q5 match polymer. It'll be my range toy as i get better at shooting. 

Wkth that said I cant get the shadow off my mind so I'll probably put in for another permit and buy that in a few months.


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## panda (Apr 19, 2020)

why didnt you get the all metal version of the q5?


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## cheflife15 (Apr 19, 2020)

panda said:


> why didnt you get the all metal version of the q5?


Cause it was just far too expensive. He was vat 1700 and wouldn't budge. Corona virus made prices go even higher in Jersey


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## cheflife15 (Apr 19, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> Cause it was just far too expensive. He was vat 1700 and wouldn't budge. Corona virus made prices go even higher in Jersey


Don't make me get buyers remorse lol. Should i email em and just get the shadow 2? Try to just upgrade? I figured id try a polymer gun as well. It apparently has an excellent trigger


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## Bert2368 (Apr 19, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> I figured id try a polymer gun as well. It apparently has an excellent trigger



The PPQ trigger are indeed very good for the price. I think it will be a great range toy, which is what I use mine for (threaded barrel PPQ .45). The trigger reset is among the best I've experienced.

I wouldn't carry one for use in high adrenaline situations though, that nice light range trigger pull is just TOO light for a defensive pistol. This is the only pistol I have experienced inadvertent "double taps" with recently, that's OK on a range, not so much for use around people and things you must not shoot.

Hickock45 enjoyed shooting the PPQs and did some impressively accurate long range shooting with the PPQ .45. But I recall him saying in one of his range videos that the trigger was TOO good.


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## cheflife15 (Apr 19, 2020)

Bert2368 said:


> The PPQ trigger are indeed very good for the price. I think it will be a great range toy, which is what I use mine for (threaded barrel PPQ .45). The trigger reset is among the best I've experienced.
> 
> I wouldn't carry one for use in high adrenaline situations though, that nice light range trigger pull is just TOO light for a defensive pistol. This is the only pistol I have experienced inadvertent "double taps" with recently, that's OK on a range, not so much for use around people and things you must not shoot.
> 
> Hickock45 enjoyed shooting the PPQs and did some impressively accurate long range shooting with the PPQ .45. But I recall him saying in one of his range videos that the trigger was TOO good.



Perfect. Yeah my cz tactical will be the home defense one (and hopefully a range toy too). I kind of wish i bought before this virus since prices sky rocketed around here


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## panda (Apr 19, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> Don't make me get buyers remorse lol. Should i email em and just get the shadow 2? Try to just upgrade? I figured id try a polymer gun as well. It apparently has an excellent trigger


yes, go shadow  they released a single action only verison. i dont care for polymer frames at all.


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## cheflife15 (Apr 19, 2020)

panda said:


> yes, go shadow  they released a single action only verison. i dont care for polymer frames at all.


Damnit. Lol ok i sent them an email. If they allow me to switch then cool if not i get it since they had to order one for me. Now we wait.


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## applepieforbreakfast (Apr 20, 2020)

If you end up *really *liking your CZ, CZCustom.com would be a good place to look for your next one.


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## inferno (Apr 24, 2020)

cheflife15 said:


> Hey all. Working on getting my firearms permit. My brothers a cop so im looking to get a pistol to do some target shooting and for home defense (hopefully never needed). Whats a good first pistol?
> 
> Nj laws



a 1911. any 1911. they have the best triggers. better than any cz or neuhausen, its just the way it is. the trigger moves straight back and its very short distance. other than that, some older smith&wesson performance center model.

i have used the 945 extensively which is a 1911 upper mated to a common smith non 1911 lower. or maybe it the other way around. its a very good hybrid though. it can feed and cycle empty brass if you want. best "1911" ever made. extremely well made.

also the 952 performance center. i think this is the best pistol ever made on this planet. the trigger pull is so short and crisp its almost unreal. i shot a 6 inch model in a competition once and it almost shot itself. you just aim it in the general direction and you hit the target. well, not really! but it felt like that. mother of ****ing god.

952 on the bottom. 945 on top.







also these are probably the best **** you will ever encounter.
smith 5906 performance center target champion. they dont **** around with these ones.







if you miss with this you probably shouldn't own guns at all to be honest. 6 inch 952. the baddest ass there is.


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## bkultra (May 26, 2020)

bkultra said:


> Also this thread has given me a project. I'm now putting a near mirror polish on the 64-2. Two hours of hand polishing today, only 20 more to go. But I've got the time.



Updated pic of the polish job and Tyler T-grip


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