# Home cook - one and only jnat



## Kai (Dec 16, 2019)

Hey good people,

New member here. Let me start off by saying that I admire the hell out of you all. I’ve been lurking here for as long as I can remember and feel like I’ve been given a free encyclopedia - positively filled to the brim and overflowing with superb, interesting, and brilliantly informed conversations. I’m humbled by the quality here and grateful for the quantity. For that, thank you.

There is no shortage of threads like these but, like stones, it seems every person has their own unique feel and style. Here is what I hope you could help me with:

I am a home cook that spends the majority of my day in the kitchen. *I want to buy one and only one jnat* - hopefully ever - a good one that will be my trusted partner til the end of days. A fantasy maybe. It’s a bit impersonal, but some cold hard facts may be of use.

I’ve never owned a jnat for kitchen knives
When I do, I’ll devote myself to learning it. Hopefully it will fit me.
I’ve used all manner of synthetics over the years and still use them today.
At the moment, do nearly everything with a morihei 1k (solid) and morihei 4K (fantastic). There are many more in storage, but this is all I really need.
Lap occasionally with either an atoma 140 or 400
Don’t like soaking stones
Have used a handful of jnats with kitchen knives and love them. Appreciate the feel and ethos. Haven’t bought one yet because I know it is a slippery slope and I’d rather focus on the food and blades.
Been sharpening an Iwazaki tamahagane razor for over a decade. This is how I know stones are a slippery slope.
If I’m honest with myself, all I need is a good gyuto (I am rough on a blazen ryu SS and loving with my favorite blue #2s)
And a good petty. I’m fond of my semi-stainless.
My w2 yanagi and ss cleaver probably have different sharpening needs outside of the scope of this question.
The vast majority of my cutting is vegetables

I’ve poured through the forums and have found outstanding information and excellent suggestions. It’s problematic because everything is too good and every stone is too beautiful. Talk about an alluring rabbit-hole.

Based on feel and experience, I think it makes sense to stick with my 1k and 4k synthetics then end with a jnat or maybe even replace that 4K. Many happily end their progression on a medium grit. People seem to enjoy Aizu’s. Going finer is fun and beautiful, but does it make sense? Scoop up those ohira suitas while they are hot! Many threads lead me down both paths. Hardness is a different matter.

I don’t need to chase the perfect mirror, but want a stone that I can use frequently and cook with happily. I want it to feel good and be well suited for the job. Deeply enjoy the act of sharpening, so want to finish regularly and have a stone that’s more often in hand than in storage. If it looks great I’ll be even more happy to grab it - iromono, nashiji, kiiji stones tend to find their way into my online carts.

I don’t exactly want to sell a kidney, but don’t want to go cheap and encourage the snowball to start rolling. I think a good stone is worth a good value.

*So, my question for all of you is, given my situation, what one stone would you have - out of any other in the world?*

It’s an unfair, contentious, and deeply personal question. Anyone else out here like me? Thanks for reading this tome. Once I’m here for longer and engage more, you’ll find me in the WTB section looking for your suggestions.


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## toddnmd (Dec 16, 2019)

Following. From my limited experience, I won’t be surprised if you already know the answer and people will suggest Aizu.


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## childermass (Dec 16, 2019)

I‘m sure a lot of people here will suggest Aizu as the one and only stone needed.
But as I don’t really like the feel of these and given your actual setup I will support the Suita route. It doesn’t necessarily have to be an Ohira, any other fast and not overly fine Suita will do. They are usually fast enough for a quick touchup and should suit your needs just fine.


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## domrun (Dec 16, 2019)

Be careful to that rabbit hole


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## Michi (Dec 17, 2019)

domrun said:


> Be careful to that rabbit hole


Naw, you should give it a try. It's really nice, trust me. First one is cheap…


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## Nemo (Dec 17, 2019)

Kai said:


> *I want to buy one and only one jnat*



ROFL (in the nicest possible way)

Have you been able to stop at one knife?

Just sayin'


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## Michi (Dec 17, 2019)

Nemo said:


> Just sayin'


@Kai Naw, don't listen to the man. Jnats are perfectly safe!


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 17, 2019)

My motto ... “if it’s worth doing ... it’s worth doing to excess”. If one was enough why did the Lord give me ten fingers, ten toes ... and an infinite number of thoughts.


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## domrun (Dec 17, 2019)

Michi said:


> @Kai Don't listen to the man. Jnats are perfectly safe!



Absolutely.... except for your piggy bank [emoji1]


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## Matus (Dec 17, 2019)

A nice Suita (Ohira if you can afford one) ... and an Aizu nagura for the times when you want it with some extra bite


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## Michi (Dec 17, 2019)

Matus said:


> A nice Suita (Ohira if you can afford one) ... and an Aizu nagura for the times when you want it with some extra bite


Pure evil. Right there, before your eyes…


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## Kai (Dec 18, 2019)

You all are a dangerous bunch. 

Of course I won't be able to stop at just one, but a man sure can dream. Thanks to all that sent over suggestions, very much appreciated. The good news is that there is a lot of unified thinking.

- *Aizu*'s are well loved medium grits
- *Suita*'s are something special, regardless of the mine. A softer, low-grit suita could fit my purpose
- *Maruo Yama *suitas offer an excellent and consistent edge
- Any stone could be magic or no-magic. Use good sellers
- Life would be easier if we had all the money

Lots of good things to think about now.


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## Kai (Dec 18, 2019)

Nemo said:


> ROFL (in the nicest possible way)
> 
> Have you been able to stop at one knife?
> 
> Just sayin'


Well, when you put it like that...


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## childermass (Dec 18, 2019)

Kai said:


> Life would be easier if we had all the money



+1


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## Xenif (Dec 18, 2019)

Mid grit wise I really like my Aoto, although finding the "magical" Aoto in itself is a pretty stiff challenge. I really like the "lower grit softer suita" opinion too but again finiding them, at a realistic price posts yet another challenge. 

When you buy your 25th stone you will look back and have a good laugh at yourself


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## J.C (Dec 18, 2019)

Nemo said:


> Have you been able to stop at one knife?



none of us stopped right?


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## childermass (Dec 18, 2019)

J.C said:


> none of us stopped right?


Nope


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## childermass (Dec 18, 2019)

Xenif said:


> When you buy your 25th stone you will look back and have a good laugh at yourself



I didn’t up to now but it’s fun when I think about it...


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## Xenif (Dec 18, 2019)

J.C said:


> none of us stopped right?


Why would any of us be here if we stopped at one of ANYTHING !? [emoji15]


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## J.C (Dec 18, 2019)

Exactly..


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## Migraine (Dec 19, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> My motto ... “if it’s worth doing ... it’s worth doing to excess”. If one was enough why did the Lord give me ten fingers, ten toes ... and an infinite number of thoughts.



Unfortunately he didn't bless me with infinite money, however.

I have managed to stop at 3 knives and 2 Jnats (and a couple of synths) for quite a while now. The itch definitely isn't starting. No sir. No no no. Definitely not desperate to buy a Kamon.


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## Chuckles (Dec 19, 2019)

I like the idea of one natural with a couple naguras to change the flavor. I remember one member who had a binsui and different naguras. I think an Aizu could be a good substrate for that set up. I have never used a suita but trust that Matus is giving good advice.


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## musicman980 (Dec 19, 2019)

Chuckles said:


> I like the idea of one natural with a couple naguras to change the flavor. I remember one member who had a binsui and different naguras. I think an Aizu could be a good substrate for that set up. I have never used a suita but trust that Matus is giving good advice.



People do the nagura progression with knives too? I’ve done that with razors. 

I would get a suita or an aizu, or even a nice hard aoto if you like your finish that way.


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## Kai (Dec 19, 2019)

Very interesting idea using nagura.

Use them on a very hard stone for my razor progression but it didn't even cross my mind for knives. If a stone self slurries - and I will likely choose a softish stone for cooking - is there good reason to use nagura? I see it useful for conditioning, but wonder if an aizu or soft suita would benefit.


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## musicman980 (Dec 19, 2019)

Nagura are used to speed up hard stones that don’t release a lot of abrasive particles naturally. I can’t see softer stones benefiting that much from them, apart from maybe conditioning the surface.


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## Chuckles (Dec 19, 2019)

I am far from any kind of authority on natural stones. I only have a few. If you are in a situation where you are only using one stone and sharpening often you would get to know that one stone very well and I would imagine the small difference that a nagura would make would be noticeable albeit subtle in the grand scheme of things.


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## Qapla' (Dec 20, 2019)

Kai said:


> At the moment, do nearly everything with a morihei 1k (solid) and morihei 4K (fantastic). There are many more in storage, but this is all I really need.


If you like your 1k and 4k, then I'm assuming you want a stone to cover the 7k-10k range?



Kai said:


> Have used a handful of jnats with kitchen knives and love them. Appreciate the feel and ethos. Haven’t bought one yet because I know it is a slippery slope and I’d rather focus on the food and blades.


So which ones did you use? What were your experiences with them? That might be important.


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## lemeneid (Dec 20, 2019)

There is no point going superfine, most knives won't be able to hold 8k and higher edges for most practical use. Instead I would suggest replacing the 4k with a jnat. Something like a superfine aoto which will finish anywhere between 3k-6k range. You get amazing cutting edges with Aoto, very aggressive and effective, which is what you need in a good cutter.


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## childermass (Dec 20, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> There is no point going superfine, most knives won't be able to hold 8k and higher edges for most practical use. Instead I would suggest replacing the 4k with a jnat. Something like a superfine aoto which will finish anywhere between 3k-6k range. You get amazing cutting edges with Aoto, very aggressive and effective, which is what you need in a good cutter.



The hard Aoto is definitely good advice, although as Xenif already mentioned, finding a good example for a reasonable price can be a challenge.

As for the Nagura thing: I got several Nagura in the medium grit section and these definitely make a difference if you got the right base stone. For example I sometimes restore a pretty dull edge on my hard Binsui using a Nagura progression of Omura-Binsui-Aizu/Jokyoji-Suita not needing any other stone in the process.


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## lemeneid (Dec 20, 2019)

childermass said:


> The hard Aoto is definitely good advice, although as Xenif already mentioned, finding a good example for a reasonable price can be a challenge.
> 
> As for the Nagura thing: I got several Nagura in the medium grit section and these definitely make a difference if you got the right base stone. For example I sometimes restore a pretty dull edge on my hard Binsui using a Nagura progression of Omura-Binsui-Aizu/Jokyoji-Suita not needing any other stone in the process.


If its going to be your "one and only" jnat, that Aoto will be worth it. I got mine from a forum member here, who got it from AFrames, and from what I see they got some nice ones still available. 

Here is the one I got
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/rare-hard-aoto.42015/


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## Xenif (Dec 21, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> If its going to be your "one and only" jnat, that Aoto will be worth it. I got mine from a forum member here, who got it from AFrames, and from what I see they got some nice ones still available.
> 
> Here is the one I got
> https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/rare-hard-aoto.42015/


I almost bought that stone! Litterally bought a Kouzaki Aoto 48 hrs before that post! I love the comment #2 on that thread with, Badger saying it took HIM ... 5 years ... To find something like that ... 

Heads up if u ever sell that [emoji13]


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## K813zra (Dec 21, 2019)

Ohira Asagi (JNS 4, Watanabe HS-55(ish), Aframes 8.7): I have used these examples and while all had their own personality they were very much interchangeable. 4-6k edge if compared to synthetics. All on the softer side of hard and fast.

Yaginoshima Asagi (JNS 3.5, Watanabe HS-50, Aframes 8.4, and one other without a listing): Again, all had their own personalities but all very, very similar in use. Fast, fine and on the softer side of hard. About a 6-8k edge when compared to synthetics.

Oouchi: (JKI: No scale listed but said to be not too hard and not too soft. If I had to place it I'd say it falls between a JNS 3.5-4, Aframes 8.2) Again, these two stones were similar, very similar, in use. Fast, fine and on the softer side of hard. Probably softer than the other two if I had to say. Around 6-8k as well but I'd say closer to 6 than 8.

Any of those stones would be fine with me as a general purpose finisher on a narrow bevel. I'd blindly keep any one of them but I'll tell you which I did in fact keep. The Yagi listed as other and the Oouchi from JKI fwiw.

Which stone I use the most is none of the above though. That is in fact a Hideriyama from Jon B at JKI that I have fallen in love with over the past few years. However, I have used a few Hideriyama that were turds to say the least. Take that for whatever it is worth.

What I will end with is this. Buy from a trusted vendor/member who tests their stones. Tell them what you want and be specific. The name/mine associated with the stone at that point shouldn't really matter. Used stones on this forum are a good way to go too.

And you thought I was going to say Aizu.


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## jaknil (Dec 21, 2019)

If you mean it about one natural: don´t get the aoto.
It´s very much hit and miss. There is so many bad aotos out there. 
Besides, if you have a good 4K stone, why not get a bit finer one to finish on. 

Ohira Suita 
Aiiwatani
Shinden suita
Okudo suita
Nakayama

These names are the game you should hunt. 
Aiiwatani you can find in super quality cheaper than the rest of them I would guess. 
But that should not lead you to think they are inferrior to the rest. They are not!

Or you could have a look at this takashima suita if you want a looker:
https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/takashima-karasu-suita-lv-4-a1923/

Personally I like lv 3 or 3,5 so I think the lv 4 are a bit hard for me, but it would make it easier to use with naguras.


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## lemeneid (Dec 21, 2019)

Xenif said:


> I almost bought that stone! Litterally bought a Kouzaki Aoto 48 hrs before that post! I love the comment #2 on that thread with, Badger saying it took HIM ... 5 years ... To find something like that ...
> 
> Heads up if u ever sell that [emoji13]


It was badger who gave me the thumbs up on the stone. I was pretty lucky with this stone, being second in line and all, the first guy backed out. Thats all I need to know that this stone is going to my children and my descendants. Or to the grave with me if they don't give an arse about knives!


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## Hassanbensober (Dec 22, 2019)

Just 1 jnat eh! Then I assume you’re going to have like 14 synthetics laying around. I like oouchi recommendation it was my first one as well and was a pretty lucky choice. Still gets used often as a finisher. But I think if I could only have one any suita would probably be grabbed.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Dec 23, 2019)

You could try several stones and after you decide which is the one for you, keep that one and sell the others. Just give yourself some time using the stones as your taste might change with time.


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## childermass (Dec 23, 2019)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> You could try several stones and after you decide which is the one for you, keep that one and sell the others. Just give yourself some time using the stones as your taste might change with time.



I have to say that this is the best advice in this thread so far


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## CiderBear (Dec 23, 2019)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> You could try several stones and after you decide which is the one for you, keep that one and sell the others. Just give yourself some time using the stones as your taste might change with time.



This is what I told myself about knives and look where we are


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## Marcelo Amaral (Dec 23, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> This is what I told myself about knives and look where we are



I hear you, and i can’t judge! We start carefully only to realize that, for most of us, buying only what we think we need is a futile exercise.


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## johnny (Dec 23, 2019)

It’s a trap!


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## Phip (Dec 23, 2019)

For my first I wrote Watanabe and laid out my level of sharpening skill, the knives I’d be sharpening , the kind of sharp I was looking for, and a price range. I don’t recall now what he led me to, but it was perfect. Super easy stone. Great feed back, quick to slurry but doesn’t get excessive. Nice edge in the 6000 - 8000 gritish range. All for about $150.


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## Nemo (Dec 23, 2019)

Phip said:


> For my first I wrote Watanabe and laid out my level of sharpening skill, the knives I’d be sharpening , the kind of sharp I was looking for, and a price range. I don’t recall now what he led me to, but it was perfect. Super easy stone. Great feed back, quick to slurry but doesn’t get excessive. Nice edge in the 6000 - 8000 gritish range. All for about $150.



How many do you have now?

I'm guessing not just one?


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## Phip (Dec 24, 2019)

Ah, quite true, Nemo. I have about 10 and am on the hunt for another aoto now. But that original purchase from Sin is still the one I go to for a no-hassle more refined edge after my 2000 grit synth. It's kind of the lodestar I reorient with regularly.


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## Michi (Dec 24, 2019)

Hmmm… _One_ JNat.

That's a bit like a teenager who's just had sex for the first time and then telling him that there is no need to ever do it again…


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## Kai (Dec 24, 2019)

Well, I guess I'll just spiral after all. Just one or two naturals. Or three. Four, out of necessity. Perfectly justified, of course. Yessir. Five max.

Thanks for the solid recommendations all! Lost power for a few days and now new solar panels seem to have stolen my wallet. The new year will see some new stones once it is returned. Hopefully just one of those will become my "go to". Perhaps that's all I can really hope for


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