# New to the world of knives



## Steve90 (Jun 19, 2015)

Hi all! Thought I'd start a thread to ask some questions I have about knives and knife sharpening as it's all a wee bit confusing to a beginner. Well basically I'm new to the chef'ing world! Haven't been doing it long but I love it. And that's what brought me here, I think to be a better chef you need to learn every aspect not just the food and I believe that in cooking the saying 'a bad workman blames his tools' does not apply you just have to have the correct equipment, and a good sharp knife is essential! When started I got myself a 10" rosewood Victorinox and and diamond steel but now it has lost its edge and is a nightmare to work with. I was be very grateful if any of you lot had some sound advice for a novice! What are your thoughts on Victorinox? How should I go about sharpening and maintening my knifes edge? And how to do lot store your knives?


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## perneto (Jun 19, 2015)

Welcome!

I'd suggest starting to learn about sharpening, since you already have a serviceable knife you know and use. The Victorinox is quite good for the price. If you hang out here you'll probably spend way more than that eventually 

Sharpening & honing
Here's what's probably the best resource on sharpening in English on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEBF55079F53216AB
The first 9 videos cover everything you need to know to sharpen your current knife. The other ones won't be as useful right away.

Here's another good playlist, that's not as well organized by difficulty level as the above one:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSxXLQSZIe__A5THcrFGto9_PSkXWiN6

For that you'll need to get a stone or two (no more to start!). Turns out someone was just recommending an excellent medium+fine grit combo stone for beginners, for just $36:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...t-people-addicted-new-cerex-1k-3k-combo-stone
Since it's so cheap, I'd say go ahead and get that. You'll learn what you like and dislike, and you can add more stones later if you want.

Since you mention you have a steel, here's a a video on proper steel use:
[video=youtube;jAWcQOc93ec]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAWcQOc93ec[/video]

Storage
At home, most people here probably use wooden magnetic bars. They can hold many large knives without scratching them (a problem with metal magnetic bars). Example: http://benchcrafted.com/Magblok.html

Some people also use wooden blocks, but since we all tend to have so many large knives, it gets hard to find unless custom-made. Of course, if you have a lot of self-control or don't hang out on this forum too much, it gets easier 
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/6605-Custom-Knife-Blocks

There are also wooden drawer organizers such as this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009MG0JE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Finally, you can always get sayas (Japanese-style wooden blade covers) for each of your knives and just keep them in a regular drawer. That's not ideal for non-stainless knives, but you don't have that concern yet.

I don't think many pros leave their knives at work, too easy to get stolen... Instead they get excited about various knife bags, cases and rolls. Here's a recent thread:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/21759-What-Bag-Roll-do-you-use

Knife shopping advice
Just in case you were looking for an excuse to upgrade from the Victorinox, there's a standard questionnaire you can fill out so we can give you tailored advice:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...hich-Knife-Should-I-Buy-quot-Questionnaire-v2
Just paste your answers as a new message in this thread, if you're interested.

FYI, it will only make sense to upgrade if you have at least $75 to spend on a new chef's knife, I think. I would focus on getting your existing knife sharp first.


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## perneto (Jun 19, 2015)

perneto said:


> For that you'll need to get a stone or two (no more to start!). Turns out someone was just recommending an excellent medium+fine grit combo stone for beginners, for just $36:
> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...t-people-addicted-new-cerex-1k-3k-combo-stone
> Since it's so cheap, I'd say go ahead and get that. You'll learn what you like and dislike, and you can add more stones later if you want.



And here's the link:
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store...oduct_info&cPath=335_404_573&products_id=1956


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (Jun 19, 2015)

Diamond rods are pretty fine, so I think you have just been polishing the current edge (and if you use too much pressure rolling over the edge..). At some point, this is not enough, and you need to go down to coarser whetstones and do legit sharpening. Raise a burr, remove the burr, create a clean crisp bevel and all that. If you have been sharpening, but not thinning, then that needs to be addressed as well.


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## Sabaki (Jun 19, 2015)

Steve90 said:


> Hi all! Thought I'd start a thread to ask some questions I have about knives and knife sharpening as it's all a wee bit confusing to a beginner. Well basically I'm new to the chef'ing world! Haven't been doing it long but I love it. And that's what brought me here, I think to be a better chef you need to learn every aspect not just the food and I believe that in cooking the saying 'a bad workman blames his tools' does not apply you just have to have the correct equipment, and a good sharp knife is essential! When started I got myself a 10" rosewood Victorinox and and diamond steel but now it has lost its edge and is a nightmare to work with. I was be very grateful if any of you lot had some sound advice for a novice! What are your thoughts on Victorinox? How should I go about sharpening and maintening my knifes edge? And how to do lot store your knives?



Hello and welcome Steve90

Your Victorinox has probably served you well and been sharpened with the diamond steel many times and may be deformed along the edge also? it's also a bit to thick behind the edge to become a good cutting tool for you and in need of thinning. yes?
You need to get a coarse and medium stone to thin your blade or turn it in to someone that can do the thinning for ya.

Learn some basic skills with knives and wet stones, then do some practice and you will never have any problem again with knives being a poor cutter

I'm sure someone can provide u with a ton of clips how to sharpen and maintain your knives:thumbsup:


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 19, 2015)

That video was pretty good. Only diff. I put knife on underside of steel for other side still sweeping out. That way no chance of hitting the guard. Like he said only a couple light strokes is all you need to straight the edge.

I do not care for diamond steels. The diamonds do some cutting of the steel as opposed to a totally smooth polishing rod that works well on Victorinox knives. The diamond steels are sold at the supply stores here cooks who use them eventually bugger up their edges, knives do not cut well at all. Bottom line is no substitute for freehand skills.

Welcome to the Forum, plenty info. here to get your knife sharp.


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## Steve90 (Jun 23, 2015)

Cheers for the advise lads! Looks like I'll need to get myself a stone! I forgot to mention I'm from England so I hope these websites ship that far lol. I've been having a read around different sharpening topics and I've read I need to get a stone flattened? And also that I shouldn't be using a diamond steel as they are too abrasive. What kind of honing rod do you recommend? Thanks again and sorry for all these questions just I work an absolute shitload and trying to find all this information from articles takes up time I don't have haha!


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## perneto (Jun 23, 2015)

No problem shipping to the UK. The one I linked to actually ships from Japan, so UK or US doesn't make much of a difference:
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store...oduct_info&cPath=335_404_573&products_id=1956

Flattening will indeed become necessary at some point. There it probably makes sense to spend a bit more and get a diamond plate right away.
The cheaper kind of stone flattener (e.g. http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/pt/-naniwa-flattening-stone-grain-220-a102.htm) tends to wear unevenly over time and require flattening just like waterstones.

The i-Wood 150 or 300 grit diamond plate here seems like a very affordable option: http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store...roduct_info&cPath=335_462_463&products_id=852
I haven't tried it myself, perhaps others can comment on it.
Here's some praise for the iWood plates: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5544-DMT-vs-Atoma-vs-other

If you're short on cash, you can use drywall screen instead. I haven't tried that myself.

For honing rods, you can probably stick with what you have right now and just make sure to use a very light touch.

If you upgrade your knife later, you might stop using honing rods altogether.


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## Steve90 (Jun 23, 2015)

a flattener that needs flattened, well that seems a wee bit pointless haha! ill do a bit more reading about this forum then get myself a stone, a flattener and a new honing rod as mines gone missing (as things seem to do in busy professional kitchens!) i also need a few new task specific knives such as carving knife, flexible filleting knife some others, do you reccomd sticking with vicroinox for time being while im a knife novice? i dont earn that much at the minute is why im asking


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## Sabaki (Jun 24, 2015)

Keeping your knives thin behind the edge makes sharpening so much easier and faster, i often use a "Taidea 5000grit" under the water tap, a couple of strokes and deburr on balsa strop creates a razor edge in seconds. i dont use honing rod anymore


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## perneto (Jun 24, 2015)

Steve90 said:


> a flattener that needs flattened, well that seems a wee bit pointless haha!



Well, you use them much less often than sharpening stones, so they stay serviceably flat for a while, but diamond plates are definitely more convenient and will last forever (as long as they're used to flatten stones only).



Steve90 said:


> ill do a bit more reading about this forum then get myself a stone, a flattener and a new honing rod as mines gone missing (as things seem to do in busy professional kitchens!)



Sounds good. Maybe others can advise about the rod. The MAC black ceramic rod seem popular.



Steve90 said:


> i also need a few new task specific knives such as carving knife, flexible filleting knife some others, do you reccomd sticking with vicroinox for time being while im a knife novice? i dont earn that much at the minute is why im asking



Would you care to try carbon (non-stainless) steel? That could be a good option for your slicer/carving knife.


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## Steve90 (Jun 24, 2015)

Sabaki said:


> Keeping your knives thin behind the edge makes sharpening so much easier and faster, i often use a "Taidea 5000grit" under the water tap, a couple of strokes and deburr on balsa strop creates a razor edge in seconds. i dont use honing rod anymore



I'm such a novice I don't even know what half that means haha


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## Steve90 (Jun 24, 2015)

perneto said:


> Well, you use them much less often than sharpening stones, so they stay serviceably flat for a while, but diamond plates are definitely more convenient and will last forever (as long as they're used to flatten stones only).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd try anything that sharp, not too costly,costly and not too hard to maintain buddy


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## Sabaki (Jun 24, 2015)

Steve90 said:


> I'm such a novice I don't even know what half that means haha



Taidea #5000 is a cheap flat ceramic waterstone from China found at Ebay, after sharpening with the stone u want to remove any burr the stone creates and this is easy done stropping the knife on: balsa leather or newspaper. It gives the edge that extra touch of sharpness and makes it last longer also


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## Steve90 (Jun 24, 2015)

Sabaki said:


> Taidea #5000 is a cheap flat ceramic waterstone from China found at Ebay, after sharpening with the stone u want to remove any burr the stone creates and this is easy done stropping the knife on: balsa leather or newspaper. It gives the edge that extra touch of sharpness and makes it last longer also



id rather invest a little bit extra and get myself a better quality stone (or stones) that will last me years, is theyre any others you reccomend? i just watched a video on burr removal and now i get what you mean! thanks!


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## Steve90 (Jun 24, 2015)

http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/...fessional-stones-400-1000-3000.htm#tabbutton1

can anyone comment on these?


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## AllanP (Jun 24, 2015)

Steve90 said:


> http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/...fessional-stones-400-1000-3000.htm#tabbutton1
> 
> can anyone comment on these?



You are pretty set with those three stones imo , from what I read a lot of people eventually end up on the Chosera/Naniwa pro as their go to sets.


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## Steve90 (Jun 24, 2015)

AllanP said:


> You are pretty set with those three stones imo , from what I read a lot of people eventually end up on the Chosera/Naniwa pro as their go to sets.



Thanks for the reply, think I'll get myself these come payday


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jun 24, 2015)

Another option would be getting the JNS Matukusuyama 300, 1k and 6k. I don't own the 6k, but the 300 and 1k are awesome.


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## Steve90 (Jun 24, 2015)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> Another option would be getting the JNS Matukusuyama 300, 1k and 6k. I don't own the 6k, but the 300 and 1k are awesome.



I'm just a wee bit dubious about ordering from Japan as the import costs might make it costly, did yours cost much more?


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## daveb (Jun 24, 2015)

JNS is located and ships from Denmark. Great service. JNS 300 might be the last coarse stone you ever need.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jun 24, 2015)

The 300 is not available right now, but i imagine it won't take too long to be in stock again http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/synthetic-stones/?sort=newest


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## Steve90 (Jun 25, 2015)

daveb said:


> JNS is located and ships from Denmark. Great service. JNS 300 might be the last coarse stone you ever need.


sweet! even better then


Marcelo Amaral said:


> The 300 is not available right now, but i imagine it won't take too long to be in stock again http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/synthetic-stones/?sort=newest



im thinking about getting the JNS 300, 1000 and 6000 Matukusuyama, and the 140 diamond plate to flatten these. does that sound like a good idea?


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## daveb (Jun 25, 2015)

Best idea I've heard all day.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jun 25, 2015)

+1 on what Dave said. I wish i had started with these!


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## Steve90 (Jun 25, 2015)

Thanks lads! Appreciate the help! Roll on payday then, why do I get the feeling this is going to turn into an expensive hobby..


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## perneto (Jun 25, 2015)

Look on the bright side: you're already getting some of the best stones, so you'll only be spending on knives from now on


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 25, 2015)

A steel that does not cost much but works is the Victorinox Combo cut. It is half fine & half smooth polish 12" rod around 30.00. I used one at work many years. After trail & error got away from groved steels even for my Forschners. With my Japanese carbons would use just the polish side of the steel. Say dicing a couple cases of tomato's for Lomi Salmon would do a couple measured lite strokes on smooth steel & edge is reset. Over steeling of any kind will fatige the edge.

Another option are Splash & Go stones for light touchups.


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## Steve90 (Jun 25, 2015)

perneto said:


> Look on the bright side: you're already getting some of the best stones, so you'll only be spending on knives from now on


you have a good point there bud!


keithsaltydog said:


> A steel that does not cost much but works is the Victorinox Combo cut. It is half fine & half smooth polish 12" rod around 30.00. I used one at work many years. After trail & error got away from groved steels even for my Forschners. With my Japanese carbons would use just the polish side of the steel. Say dicing a couple cases of tomato's for Lomi Salmon would do a couple measured lite strokes on smooth steel & edge is reset. Over steeling of any kind will fatige the edge.
> 
> Another option are Splash & Go stones for light touchups.


the stones i have mentioned previously are splash and go so i think id just take them to work and when needs be give the edge a quick touch up, when i learn how to correctly sharpen that is.


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## krx927 (Jun 26, 2015)

Like everybody is saying it is best to start with the good stuff. I did not do that, and started first with some sharpening jigs (Gatco, then EdgePro) and finally end buying chosera professional stones. At that time I also bought Naniwa flattening stone that is not so good (like mentioned it is dishing). Just yesterday I bought Atoma 140. So I end up paying much much more than if I would buy proper stone immediately.

BTW you have a sale on Atoma 140 on:
http://www.japan-tool.com/zc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43_63_65

I end up paying 52 EUR for Atoma and around 10 for shipping. There will still be around 20 eur of duty when it arrives in Belgium. 

I do not have experience with JNS stones, everybody is talking great things about them. 
I just bought Chosera package deal you were referencing previously. They are great stones! I just added another finer stone, Naniwa snow white 8000:
http://www.amazon.de/dp/B00JOECNZI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


And the same thing goes for the knives. Once you will try Japanese knives you will forget your Victorinox. Most likely you do not need to buy all the knives at once. Start with one and buy a good one


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## Steve90 (Jun 26, 2015)

Is there any you recommend as an intro knife into Japanese knifes, no doubt I'm gonna end up needing the lot, chefs knife, paring, turning (if they use them in Japan), carving, fish knife, bread knife, boning knife, ect ect but I'm assuming a gyuto is a good starting point?


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## havox07 (Jun 26, 2015)

I think the general consensus around here is you can accomplish 99 percent of tasks with a bread knife, gyuto, and paring knife. If you do a lot of a certain task some specialised knives can help. There is a gude bread knife on sale, there is a thread about it somewhere (on mobile)

As for gyuto recommendations, there is a questionnaire one can fill out to help us narrow down what would be best for you!


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## Steve90 (Jun 29, 2015)

LOCATION
What country are you in?
UK


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
basically all 

Are you right or left handed?
right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
never tried japanese but they look much more sexy so yeah japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
different sizes for different knifes so recommendations would be appreciated

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
again im unsure 

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
depends on the recommendations, rather spend a bit more and get a really good knife but at the same time im not going to buy anything stupidly priced because it has a fancy handle


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
a very busy professional kitchen

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
all of the above and more

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
10" victorinox, although im not really replacing im just building a collection i can keep for life

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
all, depending on the task

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
again depends on the task but i intend to learn new styles of cutting

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
N/A

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
not too keen on white handled knifes

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
recommendations again would help

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
i intend to rather a large collection of knifes so i can use each one for different tasks ( such as using a different knife to cut big heavy veg than smaller veg)

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
as long as possible really, although i intend to learn how to sharpen


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
synthetic, them colour coded ones you get at work

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
not currently but i want to learn

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
very much so

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
if anyones know of a book for beginners that would be helpful, anything from sharpening to how to cut and hold knifes, thanks


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## perneto (Jun 30, 2015)

What type of knife would you like to get first? It's not very clear from your questionnaire answers.

Is there anything in particular you're missing at the moment? Or should we just help you find a nice upgrade for your chef's knife?

Re: stones, you should be set for years with the 3 JNS stones plus Atoma diamond plate that you identified earlier, so I think that's covered.


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## Steve90 (Jun 30, 2015)

well i have just moved on the garnish section at work to this means A LOT of veg prep, so im after either a gyuto or a nakiri and something small for in hand and fiddly work, i spoke with the lad from jns and he suggested i get something from this range: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn/?sort=newest he also recommended i get these stones: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-matukusuyama-sharpening-set-medium/


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## perneto (Jun 30, 2015)

Are you set on Japanese-style handles? You might want to try them in person by visiting a shop, just to make sure you're comfortable with them.

*For in-hand work*
I'd go with a 150mm petty. This will be handy for in-hand work, shallots/garlic if precision is important, and meat fabrication. If you do a lot of fruit with it (citrus supremes...) you'll probably want stainless.

There's 2 good options available in the B/S/T forum at the moment:
Gesshin Ginga 150mm stainless petty: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...shin-Ginga-Stainless-150mm-Wa-Petty-with-Saya
Sakai Yusuke 150mm stainless petty: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...ai-Yusuke-150mm-wa-petty-Extra-Hard-Stainless

If shipping from the US gets expensive, you could also order these new, directly from Japan:
Sakai Yusuke: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Sa...-Petty-Knife-150mm-Extra-Harden-/231584788187
Ashi Ginga (same maker as Gesshin Ginga but small differences since Japanese Knife Imports orders custom batches): http://www.ashihamono.com/en.html
Another similar option, Hide (I have one of these and like it a lot - not the best handle in the world though): http://www.handmadeknifejapan.com/items/wa-petty/

More options (including cheaper ones) were discussed in this recent thread:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/23183-150mm-petty-to-stop-the-itching

*Veg prep main knife*
I don't have any experience with nakiris myself, so I'll let others answer if you think you'd like to try one. Have you used a nakiri before?

Re: chef's knives/gyutos, the Itinomonn is certainly a well-regarded option if it's in your budget. Is $300 about right? We'll need to know that before we can recommend something. There's plenty of good options between $200 and $300 for 240mm gyutos. 

*Stones*
I personally don't think you should get the whole 4-stone set, unless you plan to get wide-bevel knives such as this one or that one, and care about maintaining a nice even finish on the wide bevel. That's the main purpose of the Red Aoto stone - which it seems to be very good at - rather than edge sharpening.

I do recommend the other 3 stones in the set - I use them myself.

Don't forget to also get the Atoma 140 flattening plate. You can also consider the iWood 150 if you want to save a bit there. That would need to be ordered separately, from Japan: http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store...roduct_info&cPath=335_462_463&products_id=852


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## Steve90 (Jun 30, 2015)

If I'm honest buddy I'd rather order everything in one fell swoop from the same place, plus I like the fact the knives from JNS are handmade. Yeah I've held one at work and it felt good, I like how it made the knife lighter and more balanced. I've never userld a nakiri but I like the idea of the end being fat. My price range will vary depending on the options available if I'm honest, I'd rather spend a little more and get something I'll be happy with for a long time. Well that's threw a spanner in the works haha so I should stick with the original plan with the stones? And who said this whole knives malarkey was hard haha, cheers for the help though buddy I know people on forums get sick of the new guy asking the same 'ol ****


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## Dardeau (Jun 30, 2015)

I have owned several Itinomonn knives, and they are all a really good value. I use the 210mm suji probably four days a week alongside knives that cost four times as much. You could go with a petty or paring and a 240 gyuto and be pretty well set. 

I like the set Maxim mentioned only for the inclusion of something between 1 and 6k. In a professional kitchen I very rarely use a 6k edge. It is good to have one around for some things, but I would be happier with the edge off the aoto. If you want it to be all splash and go swap the 800 (which I owned and it needs to be soaked) for the new 1k and it should make the full set S&G.


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## Steve90 (Jun 30, 2015)

Dardeau said:


> I have owned several Itinomonn knives, and they are all a really good value. I use the 210mm suji probably four days a week alongside knives that cost four times as much. You could go with a petty or paring and a 240 gyuto and be pretty well set.
> 
> I like the set Maxim mentioned only for the inclusion of something between 1 and 6k. In a professional kitchen I very rarely use a 6k edge. It is good to have one around for some things, but I would be happier with the edge off the aoto. If you want it to be all splash and go swap the 800 (which I owned and it needs to be soaked) for the new 1k and it should make the full set S&G.



looks like ill get myself some itinomonn's then! so you think i should stick with my original idea of getting a "JNS 300, 1000 and 6000 Matukusuyama, and the 140 diamond plate to flatten"? cause its either buy the set or buy them each seperately, but like i said a few quid isnt a problem if its gonna last me


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## Steve90 (Jun 30, 2015)

also could someone help me out with reactivity of carbon knives, is it much of a problem? what are the consequenses of using a carbon steel knife to cut, lets say, a grapefruit


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## Rayuela (Jun 30, 2015)

The answer is that it depends. If you use a brand-new traditional iron-clad knife to cut a grapefruit, it may (depending on the cladding) go a bit brown in about 30 seconds. But if you cut a couple of onions first and build up a patina, then nothing whatsoever will happen when you cut a grapefruit, so long as you wipe it down afterwards (When cutting with carbon, you just have to learn to wipe the knife regularly). If, however, you regularly find yourself cutting hundreds of grapefruits or crates and crates of tomatoes then you might want to consider stainless, as the acid will blunt the edge of a carbon knife over time.


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## Steve90 (Jun 30, 2015)

surely that wouldnt matter though if you were regularly sharpening your knives? but if i do go carbon (which i think the Itinomonn are) ill be sure to build up a patina


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## Dardeau (Jun 30, 2015)

I would go with the stainless clad Itinomonn line. You won't have to worry very much about reactivity after the first few cuts until you sharpen again. There is also an even less reactive semi stainless gyuto.

If you feel you need splash and go stones see if Maxim can put together the 300, 1k, synthetic red aoto, and 6k as a set. That could be all you ever need. 

If you don't mind soaking one of the stones the JNS 800 is a really good medium stone. When I had one I used it to put a final edge on my meat knives, and it left one of the better butchering edges I have used.

The way that I sharpen, I would use the 300, followed by the 800 or the 1000, followed by the synthetic red aoto. I would then put a very small microbevel on the edge to strengthen it with the 6k.

And an Atoma, or some other flattener is definitely necessary.


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## Steve90 (Jul 2, 2015)

Dardeau said:


> I would go with the stainless clad Itinomonn line. You won't have to worry very much about reactivity after the first few cuts until you sharpen again. There is also an even less reactive semi stainless gyuto.
> 
> If you feel you need splash and go stones see if Maxim can put together the 300, 1k, synthetic red aoto, and 6k as a set. That could be all you ever need.
> 
> ...



I could always get a carbon chefs knife and a stainless petty and just use that for any acidic foods I suppose. I'll just stick with my original idea with the stones I was just going with what the lad said


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## Steve90 (Jul 4, 2015)

After a few days on my new section my knives have had quite a bit of exposure to water (off potatoes) and acidic foods. Would this be a major problem for carbon steel or would it be fine as long as the knife is cleaned and dried properly after use?


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## perneto (Jul 4, 2015)

You'll probably be better off with stainless, or at least stainless clad carbon, for your main knife. You can try carbon for a slicer first.


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## Steve90 (Jul 6, 2015)

perneto said:


> You'll probably be better off with stainless, or at least stainless clad carbon, for your main knife. You can try carbon for a slicer first.



Yeah I think it's the most sensible option at the minute cheers pal


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## Steve90 (Jul 6, 2015)

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kasumi-210mm-wa-gyuto/

could someone let me know what this would be like for reactivity or rusting? it says "can rust" but is stainless cladding. the fully stainless knife is not in stock


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## marc4pt0 (Jul 6, 2015)

The carbon edge can rust, but you'd have to be pretty lazy before it gets that bad. Itinomon stainless line is a very solid line. I really liked mine, and kind of regret selling it.


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## Steve90 (Jul 6, 2015)

so as long as i wipe it after im done itll be alright? i chip potatoes regularly thats all


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## Steve90 (Jul 6, 2015)

just an update to say i ordered the JNS 300, 1000 and 6000 Matukusuyama and 140 atoma, cant wait to get sharpening!


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## marc4pt0 (Jul 6, 2015)

Absolutely. The edge will develop a beautiful patina but as long as you wipe regularly you should be perfectly fine.


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## Steve90 (Jul 6, 2015)

Cheers matey I haven't ordered a knife yet gonna wait for my stones to come and do a bit practising with my victorinox first!


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## perneto (Jul 23, 2015)

Got the stones yet? How's it going?


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## Steve90 (Jul 28, 2015)

Hi buddy, sorry about the late reply been busy at work, yeah I received the stones, although instead of an Atoma 140 he sent the 600 and gave me a free takashima j nat which I have no idea how to use haha. I'm now looking to.buy a knife buy I'm unsure what to get still (the world of knives is mind boggling haha) I've just messaged the bloke from JNS and I'm awaiting a reply


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## perneto (Jul 28, 2015)

Did you get your Victorinox sharp?


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## Steve90 (Jul 28, 2015)

I'm not sure how to if I'm honest I can't even see the bevels anymore so I need to create one and I'm unsure what to do, all the videos I watched involved using a sharpy and following the current bevel


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## chinacats (Jul 28, 2015)

Perhaps you should post a new thread in the sharpening subforum and we can start fresh to get your sharpening straight.


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## Steve90 (Jul 29, 2015)

Yeah I'll do that when I get 5 cheers


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## daveb (Jul 29, 2015)

Cheers


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jul 29, 2015)

Cheers. (2)


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## ChefJimbo (Jul 29, 2015)

CHEERS. (3)


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## chinacats (Jul 29, 2015)

Cheers! (4)


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## DamageInc (Jul 29, 2015)

Cheers.


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## koki (Jul 29, 2015)

You should look into the tojiro Dp if you want a cheap price for performance in a pro setting that you wouldn't have to worry about.


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