# Do you really need a mid grit stone?



## mqphoto (Jun 19, 2017)

Like the titel says, do you really need a mid grit stones? Isn't it enough to go from 1K to 5-6K finishing stone?

I want to know how you think about it. For me I have done both and I don't feel that much of difference after strop.


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## daveb (Jun 19, 2017)

I consider 1 to 2K a mid grit. No problem going from 400ish, to 1 or 2K to finish.

What are you thinking about as "mid" grit?


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## mqphoto (Jun 19, 2017)

2-4K?


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## Noodle Soup (Jun 19, 2017)

Heck, I usually go 400-1000-2000 and quit. If I'm in a hurry and the knife isn't too dull, just the 1000.


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## Krassi (Jun 19, 2017)

Hi!

Well i go from 1k to 8k, back to 3-5k jnat, and ... well no Problem. Everything beyond 4-5K is maniac lavel.. well did i mention iam am maniac? Well now you know  7 new Jnats incoming in some days 

But i use the same style like watanabe (everything he told me is working as intended)
.. 1k Ai1000 and Kitayama.. that jump is no Jump.. i allways put my Aizu jnat in between because its so awesome or maybe use a 2k GLasstone and try my Ikarashi.. well i love to jump back and forth.. the knife is super sharp after all this jumping but thats only cosmetic for me to make the finish good and remove all scratches and then i set a microbevel with a suita jnat pn a sharpening system to make it really sharp because with freehand its only parkinson wobbeling for me and i gave up on that.

TL/TR (+ to much jnat blablablaaaaa)
1k to 8 no problem sir! 

.. and stay synthetic in this range.. naturals are fun in this range but more fun.. ok i could end with my aizu and it has the optimal kitchenknife sharpness but as i told you i am a maniac .muahahaha (super villain laughing of doom 3000) 

seeya Daniel


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jun 19, 2017)

For double edged blades, you'll need a middle grit (1k-2k) and a finer stone, unless you are doing a repair. In that case, you'll need a coarse stone too. 
You can use as many stones as you like if you are sharpening for fun, but that's not a necessity. 

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...e-stones-in-your-progression?highlight=stones


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## Von blewitt (Jun 19, 2017)

I finish my knives on a 3k


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## daveb (Jun 19, 2017)

I like 6K a lot, synthetic aoto for gyutos a lot, hell I "finish" co-workers knives on a JNS 300 and they're sharper than they've ever been.:cool2:

Sometimes I think that the number of stones is analogous to the number of duck decoys being put out. I like the minimum that will get the job done. Everything extra is another opportunity for things to go wrong.


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## labor of love (Jun 19, 2017)

@daveb do you have a preference for finishing grit based on whether or not the knife is stainless?


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## XooMG (Jun 19, 2017)

for sharpening, opposed to polishing, a 1-6k jump is perfectly reasonable. the edge should be thin enough that relative local pressure will be high and there's no real need to slowly take out course scratches. As surface area increases in wide bevel polishing, it gets harder and harder to take out scratches with fine stones, and a gradual progression helps.


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## K813zra (Jun 19, 2017)

I would think one would need a mid grit in the sense that as was mentioned, a 1k is a mid grit. I don't really like the idea of going from 120-320 to 5-8k. Not so much if you mean putting something between your 1k and your finishing stone. I, like a few others, rarely ever go past 3-5k and closer to 3k. Even with naturals I stick with the mid grit range. Aizu is typically my top end. 

For me the question is, do you need anything other than a mid grit?  (That was rhetorical, btw.)


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## daveb (Jun 19, 2017)

Hadn't thought about that. I base it on type of knife, Gyuto, Petty, Suji etc and type of use intended. Don't have many in carbon, a Usaba that I'll finish high on Jnat, a Honesuki and a Shig suji that I'll finish on a nat aoto, maybe higher if I feeling like it, same with Marko Scimitar. Being in a pro kitchen is a 2nd career for me and find owning stainless is easier that developing the care routines that carbon requires. Not that there's anything wrong with being a carbon junkie.....


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## K813zra (Jun 19, 2017)

daveb said:


> Hadn't thought about that. I base it on type of knife, Gyuto, Petty, Suji etc and type of use intended. Don't have many in carbon, a Usaba that I'll finish high on Jnat, a Honesuki and a Shig suji that I'll finish on a nat aoto, maybe higher if I feeling like it, same with Marko Scimitar. Being in a pro kitchen is a 2nd career for me and find owning stainless is easier that developing the care routines that carbon requires. Not that there's anything wrong with being a carbon junkie.....



I find the line of questioning interesting, to say the least. I am on the other end of the spectrum and own very little stainless and find that I prefer a lower grit finish as it does not seem to have the same bite as carbon when refined. I am sure there are better stainless steels out there than what I have experience with, though. 

Regardless, I find that if nothing else works, Aizu will!


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## daveb (Jun 19, 2017)

Funny. I was sharpening a (new) gf knives this week, a set of Henckel 4 Star that had spent some time in a chewy Chef's Choice electric. One knife in particular was kicking my ass, could not raise a burr on the SOB. My JNS 300 - nothing. My nats were out for some reason so I splashed my Omura and proceeded to raise a burr faster than I've typed this. Ikarashi worked well, Green Aoto would not touch it but JKI 1K did and I quit. 

She's not far from getting her very first Jknife. I can't do this again.


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## K813zra (Jun 19, 2017)

daveb said:


> Funny. I was sharpening a (new) gf knives this week, a set of Henckel 4 Star that had spent some time in a chewy Chef's Choice electric. One knife in particular was kicking my ass, could not raise a burr on the SOB. My JNS 300 - nothing. My nats were out for some reason so I splashed my Omura and proceeded to raise a burr faster than I've typed this. Ikarashi worked well, Green Aoto would not touch it but JKI 1K did and I quit.
> 
> She's not far from getting her very first Jknife. I can't do this again.



Omura and Ikarashi do work well with stainless, especially soft stainless. 

Anyway, my wife got her first J-knife about 18 month ago, a suisin western inox. She now as a Gesshin Ginga 180mm stainless and she will not use anything else!


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## chinacats (Jun 19, 2017)

daveb said:


> Funny. I was sharpening a (new) gf knives this week, a set of Henckel 4 Star that had spent some time in a chewy Chef's Choice electric. One knife in particular was kicking my ass, could not raise a burr on the SOB. My JNS 300 - nothing. My nats were out for some reason so I splashed my Omura and proceeded to raise a burr faster than I've typed this. Ikarashi worked well, Green Aoto would not touch it but JKI 1K did and I quit.
> 
> She's not far from getting her very first Jknife. I can't do this again.



Aside from the crappy stainless knives, how's the new gf? And if she's worth a damn better to just go ahead and get her a J-knife.


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## daveb (Jun 19, 2017)

I've already got it, Suisin Western Inox 180. With my luck with gf's I should buy these at Costco....

And CC - yr boxed and will hit the po in the morning. Sending a JNS 1200 that got wet in this adventure and had to dry out. Don't try and use it on German stainless:angel2:


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jun 19, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Omura and Ikarashi do work well with stainless, especially soft stainless.
> 
> Anyway, my wife got her first J-knife about 18 month ago, a suisin western inox. She now as a Gesshin Ginga 180mm stainless and she will not use anything else!



Best edge retention i've got on cheap stainless was with an Omura and quick passes on Ikarashi only to get rid of the remaining burr.


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## Krassi (Jun 20, 2017)

Yep i can confirm the magic of an ikarashi on german stainless.. it works very very good with it. Cuts like a chainsaw


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## brooksie967 (Jun 20, 2017)

At first I had issues with trying to wrap my head around a "midgrit" being a 1000k stone. As I learned how to hone straight razors first, a 1k stone is considered a "bevel setter" even a 5k is considered a "midgrit" stone. But now that I know the difference , I understand it. 

For knives I have a 120 grit shapton m24, 500 grit shappy glass double thick and a chosera 1k. I rarely go below the 1k when refreshing knives. Below that, to me, feels more like 'repair' work than 'refresh' work. 

Just thinking out loud


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## K813zra (Jun 20, 2017)

brooksie967 said:


> At first I had issues with trying to wrap my head around a "midgrit" being a 1000k stone. As I learned how to hone straight razors first, a 1k stone is considered a "bevel setter" even a 5k is considered a "midgrit" stone. But now that I know the difference , I understand it.
> 
> For knives I have a 120 grit shapton m24, 500 grit shappy glass double thick and a chosera 1k. I rarely go below the 1k when refreshing knives. Below that, to me, feels more like 'repair' work than 'refresh' work.
> 
> Just thinking out loud



It was the opposite for me! I came from oil stones so these medium grit stones seemed ultra fine. I could not even comprehend 10k+.


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## brooksie967 (Jun 20, 2017)

K813zra said:


> It was the opposite for me! I came from oil stones so these medium grit stones seemed ultra fine. I could not even comprehend 10k+.



Oil stones are weird though, especially arks like translucent and surgical . You can burnish the surface and have an ark work well above a 10k finish!


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## K813zra (Jun 20, 2017)

brooksie967 said:


> Oil stones are weird though, especially arks like translucent and surgical . You can burnish the surface and have an ark work well above a 10k finish!



Sure but I was using a coarse/fine India.


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## mqphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

Ok, what do you call 2-4K grit than? What I want to know how the most of you do? Say you begin wit 800-1500? What do you do after it? Direct to 6K? Or you go to 2-4K stone first and than 6K?

I know really well it difficult to judge like this, each type av steel have its own way and every one of you do as you feel like it.


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## mqphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

And most of you who work as chef, what is your last stone often?


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## JaVa (Jun 20, 2017)

I used to go 1000 to 6000 to strop. Now I usually go 1200 to 3000 to strop. Sometimes when I'm want to play around a bit more I'll add the 6000 before stropping. 

The 3000 with stropping leaves a plenty serviceable edge that seems to hold up well. IMO The 6000 grit stone is mostly unnecessary, but adds another degree of refinement. The difference is gone pretty quickly in a pro kitchen. Still a lot of fun though.


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## mqphoto (Jun 20, 2017)

JaVa, do you strop on leather? With or without compound ? I mean, after the 3K. And what 3K do you use?


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## Benuser (Jun 20, 2017)

Basically, I use fine stones for stropping and deburring. I hardly care about aesthetics, and like fine edges with a lot of bite. If the jump between two stones is too big, I have to work a lot on the finer stone and get the overly polished edge I'm not looking for. A very short stay on an intermediate stone may solve the problem.


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## labor of love (Jun 21, 2017)

mqphoto said:


> And most of you who work as chef, what is your last stone often?



4K really is best for pro kitchens and most practical IMO. But I still enjoy 5-6k edges on gyuto just for kicks.


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## TheLimpWhisk (Jun 21, 2017)

labor of love said:


> 4K really is best for pro kitchens and most practical IMO. But I still enjoy 5-6k edges on gyuto just for kicks.



+1 
I stop at around 3k, or I'll do the jump to 8K if I'm feeling fancy, followed with a little newspaper strop and you're good to go. 
What you'll see with most pro's is they like a little feedback with the edge they have, and toothy too! While looking to have minimal stones in the progression, efficiency is key, if you have to to do a 10 knife set sharpen say fortnightly, that can be half a precious day off to sort that out.


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## Nomsdotcom (Jun 21, 2017)

I was thinking a gesshin 2k will be my base, any recommendations for something in the 4-6K range for a little stone stropping/deburring/ extra refinement? Mostly for nicer stainless. Aeb-l, r2, and a bit of carbon.


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## Benuser (Jun 21, 2017)

A Belgian coticule would do the job fairy well.


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