# Raquin knives



## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

Sorry if I'm being ignorant here... I'm just super confused why Raquin knives are so popular both on his website and in the BST section. It seems he uses minimal effort possible to make his knives as they are all kurouchi and not even any fancy handle. Somehow he manages to sell it 600$+ and people are waiting in a long hype line just to get one. There are 1,496 other knifemakers that use fancier handles and polish their knives to mirror finish with (presumably) equally good grind and some are at the same price or even cheaper. Where/when did this hype train start that causes people to buy an ordinary-looking knife just for the sake of having one? I mean, he is not even a legendary ancient swordsmith like TF.


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## Corradobrit1 (Apr 3, 2020)

https://www.smileysapp.com/emojis/watching-a-movie.png


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## nakneker (Apr 3, 2020)

I have so many things I want to say but ..... I think I’ll just shut up.


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## soigne_west (Apr 3, 2020)

They look more nicely finished then some other knives that go for far more on here IMO.


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## zizirex (Apr 3, 2020)

His knives are really attractive, I really want one, it looks nice, Kasumi polished, nice steel and grinds. Don't know about the edge retention though. Then again, his knife is mostly Kitchen Tractor AKA Workhorse, and you know how enthusiast KKF people with workhorse right? A Hyped train maybe... but this is the Hyped that I'm willing to follow too. Hopefully, I will score one in the future.

IMO for $600 I would still buy his knife rather than typical Hyped up Japanese San-Mai Gyuto (unless it's River Jump) but that's just my personal opinion.


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## Malcolm Johnson (Apr 3, 2020)

There’s a lot more to a high end knife than a mirror polish and fancy handle.


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

Malcolm Johnson said:


> There’s a lot more to a high end knife than a mirror polish and fancy handle.


Well yeah, of course. Grind, steel, and heat treatment are also important, but there are other less hyped makers with equally good grind, steel, and heat treatment, but with better finish and handle in addition too. Why is Raquin specifically so hyped?


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## Matus (Apr 3, 2020)

I can not help but get the impression that you know very little what makes well made knife. I will leave it to others to help you out.


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## Malcolm Johnson (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> Well yeah, of course. Grind, steel, and heat treatment are also important, but there are other less hyped makers with equally good grind, steel, and heat treatment, but with better finish and handle in addition too. Why is Raquin specifically so hyped?


“Better” is quite subjective. I, for one, love the super simple and rustic style of the raquin. It has a lot more character for me. His knife as an overall package has very desirable performance for a certain type of person and those people are willing to pay for it. At the end of the day you can write out what is “better” about one knife or the other, but what it comes down to is how it feels on a board and on stones. When you find one or think one will do it for you people are ready to spend money on it.


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## refcast (Apr 3, 2020)

People can like things. For me, what's interesting is the steel.

Minimal effort (?). There is effort in making consistent grind, great HT, rare steel, straight blades, centered san-mai cores, distal taper.

TF has a kinda steel-related hype as well, but is quite different. TF puts significantly less effort into consistency, like in terms of bends and straightness. Though both makers make a variety of profiles and grinds for the same blade type.


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

refcast said:


> People can like things. For me, what's interesting is the steel.
> 
> Minimal effort (?). There is effort in making consistent grind, great HT, rare steel, straight blades, centered san-mai cores, distal taper.
> 
> TF has a kinda steel-related hype as well, but is quite different. TF puts significantly less effort into consistency, like in terms of bends and straightness.


Of course, it's a huge work to make a knife, but it's the same as other great knifemakers as well. The difference is Raquin doesn't have any variation, just the same ol' kurouchi. I'm certainly not trying to downplay the effort that goes into making a knife here.
Take Isasmedjan for example, his knife are also pretty popular as well, but he charges nowhere near Raquin does. They are both rustic, but well-finished and, from reviews, equally good steel/heat treatment. Am I missing something here? @Matus


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## Matus (Apr 3, 2020)

You are


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## zizirex (Apr 3, 2020)




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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

Matus said:


> You are


Would you be so kind to tell me, please? I really don't know, that's why I created this thread. It might be easier for me to understand to, say, compare Raquin with Isasmedjan, which are the two makers I think seem similar in style, except Isasmedjan has more variation.


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## bahamaroot (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> Well yeah, of course. Grind, steel, and heat treatment are also important, but *there are other less hyped makers with equally good grind, steel, and heat treatment, but with better finish and handle in addition too.* Why is Raquin specifically so hyped?


Name them.


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

bahamaroot said:


> Name them.


Isasmedjan, for example.


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## bahamaroot (Apr 3, 2020)

Have you used either?


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

bahamaroot said:


> Have you used either?


Nope, that's why I created this thread.


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## nakneker (Apr 3, 2020)

Ok, I’ll admit that at one time I shared your opening sentiments. This would have been a couple years ago, someone had mentioned Raquin knives as desirable. So I took a look at his web page and was unimpressed. KU finish, burnt oak handle, what’s to love? After a couple years into the hobby I look back and feel like such a noob.

I finally landed a Raquin gyuto. It’s performance on the board was eye opening to say the least. It just out performed most knives, including knives that cost 1k and over. My first Raquin was 225x50 kitchen tractor grind, I actually looked at the knife wondering how this mid to thick grind was ghosting ingredients as it did as I tried it out. But then...

I got a hold of a Raquin 165 Nakiri. I’m a square knife fan btw, oh man, this little Nakiri was amazing. Processing ingredients with ease and out performing, my KU Shig, my toyama. And a few others. Then I landed a 210 Nakiri and 185 Nakiri, wow! These blades literally blew the competition away. I’m not just writing BS, those Nakiris our performed every Nakiri I had tried and that’s a few.

So when I read your opening thread I chuckled, because at one time, a couple years back, I was saying the same thing. Not anymore. Bryan Raquin has it down. Your not buying an rustic burnt oak cutesy knife, your buying a blade on steroids in the performance dept. I would suggest getting your hands on one and pitting it against your favorite knife, you may walk away singing a different tune and may think a 600 dollars Raquin under valued.

One last comment. When these custom knife makers reach the point that their efforts become somewhat profitable then I say good for them. They have hours and hours invested in this and they do it because they love it, not because it’s profitable. If you broke down their time by the hour, a 600 dollar 210 Nakiri is a deal. The more we support them then the more options we will have. We are a spoiled lot, we have so many custom makers to choose from, Bryan Raquin is at the top of that heap. I’ve put his blades to the test, the man is a rock star.

When a Raquin comes up in the BSTs there is a reason they sell in 10 minutes. It comes down to performance, amazing blades.


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

nakneker said:


> Ok, I’ll admit that at one time I shared your opening sentiments. This would have been a couple years ago, someone had mentioned Raquin knives as desirable. So I took a look at his web page and was unimpressed. KU finish, burnt oak handle, what’s to love? After a couple years into the hobby I look back and feel like such a noob.
> 
> I finally landed a Raquin gyuto. It’s performance on the board was eye opening to say the least. It just out performed most knives, including knives that cost 1k and over. My first Raquin was 225x50 kitchen tractor grind, I actually looked at the knife wondering how this mid to thick grind was ghosting ingredients as it did as I tried it out. But then...
> 
> ...


Thanks for an honest and non-sarcastic comment. This is what I was looking to ask. And absolutely, we should support custom makers. Tansu knife is the first 'custom' knife I got (from BST section) and I was neither impressed by the heat treatment nor the grind. I guess I gotta buy a Raquin this year then.


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## bahamaroot (Apr 3, 2020)

I didn't understand either until I used one that he offered in a pass around. Was not impressed when I pulled it out of the box but grinned like a perv on PornHub with every cut. They are truly amazing performers. Isasmedjan does make some great knives but Raquin is a step above.


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## Jon-cal (Apr 3, 2020)

Ok I’ll chime in. I get the hesitation over the rustic look. I was skeptical too. I’ve owned a few and handled a couple more and I’ve been beyond impressed. They have a subtle s-grind and are top notch performers in my books. I have a 295 KT and that one will never be sold. Ever.


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## Panamapeet (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> Sorry if I'm being ignorant here... I'm just super confused why Raquin knives are so popular both on his website and in the BST section. It seems he uses minimal effort possible to make his knives as they are all kurouchi and not even any fancy handle. Somehow he manages to sell it 600$+ and people are waiting in a long hype line just to get one. There are 1,496 other knifemakers that use fancier handles and polish their knives to mirror finish with (presumably) equally good grind and some are at the same price or even cheaper. Where/when did this hype train start that causes people to buy an ordinary-looking knife just for the sake of having one? I mean, he is not even a legendary ancient swordsmith like TF.


Legendary ancient swordsmith  thanks for making my day!


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## _THS_ (Apr 3, 2020)

Wow, you managed to judge and compare two knife makers without having tried none of them!


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

_THS_ said:


> Wow, you managed to judge and compare two knife makers without having tried none of them!


Where did I say I judged? I just postulated the possibility of their similarity, seeing that they both are pretty well-respected knife makers.


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## _THS_ (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> It seems he uses minimal effort possible to make his knives as they are all kurouchi and not even any fancy handle.





Briochy said:


> Take Isasmedjan for example, his knife are also pretty popular as well, but he charges nowhere near Raquin does. They are both rustic, but well-finished and, from reviews, equally good steel/heat treatment





Briochy said:


> They are both rustic, but well-finished and, from reviews, equally good steel/heat treatment.



Here you talk about minimal effort, wich is straight plain ********, knowing Bryan and how much effort he putted to get where he is, it kinda trigger me a lil. You also talk about rustic, how do you judge them rustic if you didn't handle any? Bryan round and polish spine and choil, and also the handle, although looking simple, it is as comfortable as it can get, and also extremely durable. His knives are also finished on stone, so again, minimal effort is bs. 
Lastly, his steel is actually unique and heat treated to perfection, never experienced such a clean glassy feeling steel with that edge stability, the clad he uses is also super cool looking and soft, so if you need a thinning it will be extra easy.


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

_THS_ said:


> Here you talk about minimal effort, wich is straight plain ********, knowing Bryan and how much effort he putted to get where he is, it kinda trigger me a lil. You also talk about rustic, how do you judge them rustic if you didn't handle any? Bryan round and polish spine and choil, and also the handle, although looking simple, it is as comfortable as it can get, and also extremely durable. His knives are also finished on stone, so again, minimal effort is bs.
> Lastly, his steel is actually unique and heat treated to perfection, never experienced such a clean glassy feeling steel with that edge stability, the clad he uses is also super cool looking and soft, so if you need a thinning it will be extra easy.


He always do his knives the same way and no new experimentation. If that is not minimal effort idk what is. I'm not saying minimal effort = bad quality at all. Rustic relates to its look. A knife can be rustic but well-finished. Again, I'm not judging anything, just making speculation.


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## Dhoff (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> He always do his knives the same way and no new experimentation. If that is not minimal effort idk what is. I'm not saying minimal effort = bad quality at all. Rustic relates to its look. A knife can be rustic but well-finished. Again, I'm not judging anything, just making speculation.



See, I understood where you were coming from until this post.

Minimal effort = As little work as possible done to perform a task. 

Minimal effort is not making the same thing again and again where hours are used to create the best work possible.

If I make 1000 knives that are extremely different but use 10 min on each its still crap, and its still minimal effort.

Minimal effort would (in my opinion) more be a production line where focus was on just making it perform good and not using extra time and resources on stuff like aestechis


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

Dhoff said:


> See, I understood where you were coming from until this post.
> 
> Minimal effort = As little work as possible done to perform a task.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry for misunderstanding. His knives are kinda production line-ish (even though it's handmade) and he doesn't put any effort in making it look special.


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## Forty Ounce (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry for misunderstanding. His knives are kinda production line-ish (even though it's handmade) and he doesn't put any effort in making it look special.


Kato doesn't either.. why isn't he included in your post?


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

Forty Ounce said:


> Kato doesn't either.. why isn't he included in your post?


That is another whole new level I don't want to compare with, but yeah basically I have the same thought about it. I guess him being old kinda makes his knife more expensive?


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## Forty Ounce (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> That is another whole new level I don't want to compare with, but yeah basically I have the same thought about it. I guess him being old kinda makes his knife more expensive?


No.. it's because they are handmade.


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## Eloh (Apr 3, 2020)

Although this is borderline troll-ish....

...his knives do perform and forging it to form like he does requires arguebaly more skill than doing it on the belt grinder or mirror polishing a blade. Also aesthetics are purely subjective, that shouldnt be hard to understand.


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## Chang (Apr 3, 2020)

What is your definition of "special"? If you're judging a knife by looks, then aren't you kind of blaspheming the entire purpose of a knife all together? At the end of the day, a knife is used to cut. Anything after that is subjective. Bryan's knives can CUT, oh boy can they CUT, and they're priced very well for what they are.


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## Chang (Apr 3, 2020)

Zwilling makes a ton of different, "special" knives, and they've been around forever. By your definition, they must be legendary.


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

Jchau890 said:


> What is your definition of "special"? If you're judging a knife by looks, then aren't you kind of blaspheming the entire purpose of a knife all together? At the end of the day, a knife is used to cut. Anything after that is subjective. Bryan's knives can CUT, oh boy can they CUT, and they're priced very well for what they are.


That's why I didn't include Kato in the discussion. I'm not saying that the aesthetic is the most important quality of a knife at all. I'm just saying in the era of abundance of great performance custom knives, why choose a knife that performs well, but doesn't look unique. I thought the whole reason you pay a premium for a custom is to get a unique looking knife, no? It's totally fine to be minimalistic, but that tends to lower the cost and thus lowers the selling price. And no, Zwilling special knives are not 'legendary for the simple fact that they don't perform'. I think the metaphor of applying to university works here. When there are so many students with 4.00GPA/grade A (cutting performance) from high school, why choose the student with only good grade, but not amazing array of extracurricular activities (knife aesthetic) as well?


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## Panamapeet (Apr 3, 2020)

Jchau890 said:


> Zwilling makes a ton of different, "special" knives, and they've been around forever. By your definition, they must be legendary.


But Zwilling isn’t even a legendary swordsmith


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## Chang (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> era of abundance of great performance custom knives



That's the thing, there isn't an abundance of "great performance" knife makers. 

There are a lot of custom knife makers. Then, there are a decent amount of custom knife makers that make decent knives. Then, you have the few that make exceptional knives.


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## Forty Ounce (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> That's why I didn't include Kato in the discussion. I'm not saying that the aesthetic is the most important quality of a knife at all. I'm just saying in the era of abundance of great performance custom knives, why choose a knife that performs well, but doesn't look unique. I thought the whole reason you pay a premium for a custom is to get a unique looking knife, no? It's totally fine to be minimalistic, but that tends to lower the cost and thus lowers the selling price. And no, Zwilling special knives are not 'legendary for the simple fact that they don't perform'. I think the metaphor of applying to university works here. When there are so many students with 4.00GPA/grade A (cutting performance) from high school, why choose the student with only good grade, but not amazing array of extracurricular activities (knife aesthetic) as well?


How is 600 a premium? That's a pretty good price for a properly forged blade.. it sounds to me like you just don't like KU knives.


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## Chang (Apr 3, 2020)

Honestly, I think you're talking to the wrong people. Just shoot Bryan an email/DM telling him that he needs to lower his prices and to make more special knives.


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

Forty Ounce said:


> How is 600 a premium? That's a pretty good price for a properly forged blade.. it sounds to me like you just don't like KU knives.


Isasmedjan only charges about 400USD for his regular knives, for example. People also seems to be happy with the performance of his knives. Or does it performs inferiorly to Raquin's? Idk for certain though, since I've never tried either.


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## Dhoff (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry for misunderstanding. His knives are kinda production line-ish (even though it's handmade) and he doesn't put any effort in making it look special.



I think they look special. I do not think there is a lot of variety in the look though. 



Briochy said:


> That's why I didn't include Kato in the discussion. I'm not saying that the aesthetic is the most important quality of a knife at all. I'm just saying in the era of abundance of great performance custom knives, why choose a knife that performs well, but doesn't look unique. I thought the whole reason you pay a premium for a custom is to get a unique looking knife, no? It's totally fine to be minimalistic, but that tends to lower the cost and thus lowers the selling price. And no, Zwilling special knives are not 'legendary for the simple fact that they don't perform'. I think the metaphor of applying to university works here. When there are so many students with 4.00GPA/grade A (cutting performance) from high school, why choose the student with only good grade, but not amazing array of extracurricular activities (knife aesthetic) as well?



The purpose of buying a custom is not aesthetics though it is part. Minimalistic does not lower price in any product, a lot of designs in chairs, kitchens etc. are minimalistic. I hate garish and bright colours and dislike a lot of damascus. I'm not alone, and people pay for clean looks at a premium. I think you and I have such a different thought process we cannot come closer to understanding each other. Or you are a troll hacking Briochy in boredom of Corona.


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

Dhoff said:


> I think they look special. I do not think there is a lot of variety in the look though.
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of buying a custom is not aesthetics though it is part. Minimalistic does not lower price in any product, a lot of designs in chairs, kitchens etc. are minimalistic. I hate garish and bright colours and dislike a lot of damascus. I'm not alone, and people pay for clean looks at a premium. I think you and I have such a different thought process we cannot come closer to understanding each other. Or you are a troll hacking Briochy in boredom of Corona.


But aren't there so many other kurouchi knives with great performance?


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## Forty Ounce (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> Isasmedjan only charges about 400USD for his regular knives, for example. People also seems to be happy with the performance of his knives. Or does it performs inferiorly to Raquin's? Idk for certain though, since I've never tried either.


Easy solution.. buy them and see for yourself. I realize this solution doesn't include you causing drama on the forums, but I think it's for the best..


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## Elliot (Apr 3, 2020)

For the sake of trying to be civil and helpful. . . I post the following. 

To the OP: Some of the things you have said are insulting, whether or not you intend them to be. And, to be honest, show perhaps a disconnect that I would implore you to consider. I say perhaps to be civil. 

Fundamentally speaking, knives are kitchen tools. That's it. That's what they are. That should help you understand some things.

As for Raquin, the lack of different looks, fancy handles, etc. is because Bryan, and I say this _*relatively*_ confidently though I am not Bryan, is not interested in making knives the way some other Western makers do. He wants to make tools, plain and simple. For personal taste, I love the rustic look and the French oak handles are perhaps the best I have held. The feel of natural wood is special. I digress.

Moral of the story is that Bryan's goal, I dare say only goal, in making a knife is that it will absolutely slay on the cutting board. And, for my money, I have yet to find a knife at ANY price point that is clearly and definitively better at doing that. "Better" is a subjective term so I add things like definitively to hopefully call off any response on what defines better. That's a personal definition. I have cut with Kato's, Shigs, old-stock Fujiyamas, River Jump, Heiji, all the major Sakai honyaki, Watanabe, several Yoshikane lines, about a dozen Western makers and more. There are others who have more experience, but I have used a fair shake at what these parts would call "the best."

TLDR: If you wanna cut ****, you pick up your Raquin.


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

Couple of things:

- Isasmedjan is fairly new. He won’t stay at these prices, I’m sure

- If you judge knives by their looks this ain’t a discussion because that’s subjective. A lot of people like the Rustic look, others don’t

- his handles are some of the if not the most comfortable ones out there (together with some Japanese burnt handles) - they are too long though (and he knows hehehe.... I’ve been trolling him about that for a while!)

- to say he “heat treats the steel To perfection” is a bold statement.... how do you judge that? Especially given that it’s close to impossible to compare as there few (maybe none) who are using the SC145 apart from him

- the F&F is OKAY-ISH, but that’s not the point: his knives are meant to be rustic imho

- performance: they are good. Amazing? I don’t know. I had four, still have 3. I grab Dalman and Smide over them any day ...

- performance 2: personal preference is important. Raquins CAN be amazing performers, but I’m not sure they are OUT OF THE BOX, at least not for everyone. Why? Bryan knows that most users have a personal preference and that’s how he makes his knives. They are best when tweaked to match your personal preference .... I know some hardcore Raquin collectors with a lot of his knives on hand and even they would agree with that assessment ....

- edit: regarding “Hype”: yah, they are somewhat hyped, but so what? Hype doesn’t mean something is bad. There’s a reason for hype. Omega Speedmaster (the “Moonwatch”) is certainly hyped, doesn’t mean it’s a bad watch. It’s a legendary watch. And Raquin is at least affordable Hype. Unlike Kato!

just my two cents


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## FoRdLaz (Apr 3, 2020)

@Briochy 

You obviously have absolutely no idea what makes a good knife, and what you’re paying for when you buy one. The least important factor is aesthetics. Unless you’re buying your knives to display in your wall cabinet?
Raquin’s knives are forged entirely by hand including the profile. His sanmai technique is flawless and the heat treat on the steel is exemplary. Although superficially (read - to you) the knives all look the same - there are subtle differences in grind, and balance that make them all completely different functionally. As for the ku - that in itself performs a function : if you’ve ever cut with a mirror finished blade you will discover what stiction is all about. 
Even the burnt oak handle is comfortable and functional. Raquin’s knives are TOOLS. In fact - all knives are. If you’re after aesthetics then look elsewhere if these don’t please your eye.
There is no hype. There is demand. And the demand exists because people know what they’re getting when they buy a Raquin. 
He’s also been doing this for far longer than the likes of Isasmedjan and he is perfectly entitled to charge what he thinks is fair for his labor, experience and time. 
This thread does nothing more than expose your ignorance in what a good knife is about. 
It could perhaps hold a bit more water if you’d actually held one and cut with it, and those that you draw comparisons with.


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Couple of things:
> 
> - Isasmedjan is fairly new. He won’t stay at these prices, I’m sure
> 
> ...



This seems to be more of a credible review so far here. I'm not judging a knife purely by look at all. I'm just saying it seems a bit expensive for just kurouchi.


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## Briochy (Apr 3, 2020)

FoRdLaz said:


> @Briochy
> 
> You obviously have absolutely no idea what makes a good knife, and what you’re paying for when you buy one. The least important factor is aesthetics. Unless you’re buying your knives to display in your wall cabinet?
> Raquin’s knives are forged entirely by hand including the profile. His sanmai technique is flawless and the heat treat on the steel is exemplary. Although superficially (read - to you) the knives all look the same - there are subtle differences in grind, and balance that make them all completely different functionally. As for the ku - that in itself performs a function : if you’ve ever cut with a mirror finished blade you will discover what stiction is all about.
> ...


The whole reason I creates this thread is just for me to see if his knife would be worth buying or not lol. And I know what makes a good knife. It is you who obviously doesn't know how to read comprehensively. I've expressed my sentiments so many time I'm not gonna repeat here.


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## FoRdLaz (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> The whole reason I creates this thread is just for me to see if his knife would be worth buying or not lol. And I know what makes a good knife. It is you who obviously doesn't know how to read comprehensively. I've expressed my sentiments so many time I'm not gonna repeat here.



Below is your opening statement. Strange it doesn’t make any mention of you wanting to buy one. Rather it’s full of criticism and ignorant remarks: 

“Sorry if I'm being ignorant here... I'm just super confused why Raquin knives are so popular both on his website and in the BST section. It seems he uses minimal effort possible to make his knives as they are all kurouchi and not even any fancy handle. Somehow he manages to sell it 600$+ and people are waiting in a long hype line just to get one. There are 1,496 other knifemakers that use fancier handles and polish their knives to mirror finish with (presumably) equally good grind and some are at the same price or even cheaper. Where/when did this hype train start that causes people to buy an ordinary-looking knife just for the sake of having one? I mean, he is not even a legendary ancient swordsmith like TF”


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> This seems to be more of a credible review so far here. I'm not judging a knife purely by look at all. I'm just saying it seems a bit expensive for just kurouchi.



I’m not sure about the expensive part....

You say because it’s “just Kurouchi”, but what does that mean? It’s not a stock removal mono steel blade after all, it’s forged San Mai, and hes charging 1,80€ per mm for Gyutos. You’re paying extra for Kasumi finish.

So you’re paying about 410 USD for a regular Gyuto of 210 length.

Iasmedian charges up to 385 USD for a 210.

Here’s the difference though: that is excluding VAT, but Raquins prices are all incl VAT iirc and he does not offer taking the VAT off for non EU customers.... (it’s not that easy so not everyone offers it)

EDIT: *I don’t know if Raquin charges VAT or not, sorry! Hence the : IIRC*

so for a fair price comparison you have to add 25% Swedish VAT to Iasmedians prices which would put said 210 knife at 480 USD.... which is actually more expensive than a Raquin.

Just saying ...


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## rob (Apr 3, 2020)

What a strange and dare I say ignorant and disrespectful post. 

Fancy handles and mirror polish don't mean **** all with regards to how a knife performs. ( as you found out, then publicly rubbished a maker about a used knife you purchased) 

Maybe it would be worthwhile spending a few years using, sharpening and evaluating the differences between knife makers, steels, heat treat and grinds before commenting further.

PS. Offering your expert opinion on Tansu heat treat and grind is also pretty classy.


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## chefcomesback (Apr 3, 2020)

rob said:


> What a strange and dare I say ignorant and disrespectful post.
> 
> Fancy handles and mirror polish don't mean **** all with regards to how a knife performs. ( as you found out, then publicly rubbished a maker about a used knife you purchased)
> 
> ...



for the record I offered the inspect the blade With new Rockwell testing due to heat treatment and grind claims


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## P.Smash (Apr 3, 2020)




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## P.Smash (Apr 3, 2020)

I gotta agree with the OP at least somewhat.......Those Frenchie blades are kinda "meh" TBH


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy, completely wonder that myself along with a few others. No doubt its ignorance on my part, I've been in this hobby too long.

My only confrontational statement is its funny how brand new members are coming at you. Wish they had an ignore button on here.


----------



## nutmeg (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> There are 1,496 other knifemakers that use fancier handles and polish their knives to mirror finish with (presumably) equally good grind and some are at the same price or even cheaper.



He Bryan, now we got the recipe..: instead of removing the low spots and scratches with your time consuming kasumi.. put each blade 5 minutes on a buffer wheel for a quick mirror and make $$$$ !


Seriously, his finish is a sign of quality. Mirror isn't.


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## tgfencer (Apr 3, 2020)

@Briochy I may very well be wrong, but seems to me that your real problem is almost more the actual price of custom knives and how that correlates to performance, which is largely a subjective value choice. However, given the price of Japanese knives these days, I'm surprised you don't have more of a problem with many of them too. In fact, the price of many Japanese knives these days makes Western custom makers begin to look like more and more of a bargain. A 240 gyuto from Watanabe, TF, Kagekiyo, and other higher-end brands from traditional retailers is easily going to run $450-600. When you consider that most of these Western smiths are one man shops who not only make the finished knives with all the associated production and equipment costs, but also do all the marketing, the online selling, the shipping, and customer service on top of their normal everyday lives, I'd say their prices are fairly reasonable.

Whether those prices are something you are willing to pay for their work and whether you think the performance/aesthetics merits the price is entirely up to you. There's no way to know for sure until you try them and no thread can truly change that.

Edit: I'd also add cost of living, as well as income and business taxes to factors to consider. If you've ever been self-employed or started a business then you'll understand how hugely these things impact a business model and how different they can be based on geographical location. I imagine the net income on a knife for most of these guys set into an hourly pay scale is pretty crappy.


----------



## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

P.Smash said:


> I gotta agree with the OP at least somewhat.......Those Frenchie blades are kinda "meh" TBH



Please elaborate on that: what is meh? The look of the “Frenchie” blades or the performance?


----------



## P.Smash (Apr 3, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Please elaborate on that: what is meh? The look of the “Frenchie” blades or the performance?



They don't really blow my hair back.......But hey, if a simple, mostly adequate blade is your jam then roll with it Hoss


----------



## DitmasPork (Apr 3, 2020)

Elliot said:


> For the sake of trying to be civil and helpful. . . I post the following.
> 
> To the OP: Some of the things you have said are insulting, whether or not you intend them to be. And, to be honest, show perhaps a disconnect that I would implore you to consider. I say perhaps to be civil.
> 
> ...


+1 What he said.
Love my Raquin, no complaints.
Why are so many commentators so obsessed with money, comparative price?


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

P.Smash said:


> They don't really blow my hair back.......But hey, if a simple, mostly adequate blade is your jam then roll with it Hoss



I’m not saying I like or dislike them. I was curious about what exactly you don’t like, a question you haven’t answered ;-)


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## esoo (Apr 3, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Here’s the difference though: that is excluding VAT, but Raquins prices are all incl VAT iirc and he does not offer taking the VAT off for non EU customers.... (it’s not that easy so not everyone offers it)
> 
> so for a fair price comparison you have to add 25% Swedish VAT to Iasmedians prices which would put said 210 knife at 480 USD.... which is actually more expensive than a Raquin.
> 
> Just saying ...



Maybe Raquin should follow EU law and not charge VAT on exports outside of the EU

Just saying...


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## Eloh (Apr 3, 2020)

Why dont we all start making threads about knives we personally think are overpriced.


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

esoo said:


> Maybe Raquin should follow EU law and not charge VAT on exports outside of the EU
> 
> Just saying...



I’m not sure you’re right on this one. There’s no law (imho) that states he can’t charge VAT, there’s definitely a law that states he CAN subtract VAT.

But I’m happy to eat dirt on that one if you can provide a link to said law. Because if it’s not the case you’re wrongfully accusing Raquin of a crime in a public forum .... just saying


----------



## tgfencer (Apr 3, 2020)

Eloh said:


> Why dont we all start making threads about knives we personally think are overpriced.



When in quarantine all there is to do is stir the pot and make popcorn...


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## Elliot (Apr 3, 2020)

Eloh said:


> Why dont we all start making threads about knives we personally think are overpriced.



I think there are enough Kato threads. 

BOOOOM.


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## Eloh (Apr 3, 2020)

I think "all Japanese knives are overpriced" would be a hit


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

Elliot said:


> I think there are enough Kato threads.
> 
> BOOOOM.



Mic dropped


----------



## esoo (Apr 3, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> I’m not sure you’re right on this one. There’s no law (imho) that states he can’t charge VAT, there’s definitely a law that states he CAN subtract VAT.
> 
> But I’m happy to eat dirt on that one if you can provide a link to said law. Because if it’s not the case you’re wrongfully accusing Raquin of a crime in a public forum .... just saying



https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-rules-rates/index_en.htm

I wouldn't have said it if I didn't just have to get a EU retailer to credit me back VAT they charged.


----------



## P.Smash (Apr 3, 2020)




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## nutmeg (Apr 3, 2020)

to the OP: 
I guess many can agree your love for mirror isn't totally a sign of bad taste.
The most important is to know wich finish is the most time/$-consuming.


----------



## Matt Zilliox (Apr 3, 2020)

For the folks who think a Raquin knife is meh, have you held one? cut with one? have you experienced the effortless slip through any food you choose with his Nakiri? have you felt the balance? have you put the steel on a stone and put an edge on it yet? whew.

I can only assume the answer is no. This Bazes might outperform the Raquin, maybe, but thats about it.

I think at 500-600 these are a good buy, not a super value, but a good buy. i dont think you will find many knives which perform more, period, but especially at this price.

I think Isasmedjan is more like Halcyon Forge in style than Raquin.


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## Codered (Apr 3, 2020)

What I would like to know about raquin knives is the following: how is the edge retention and if it chips or roll if you zero grind it. What i mean is if you take the freshly sharpened knife and viciously chop (not gentle push or pull) some vegetables on the wooden board and then look at the edge in the light from tip to heel. Will you see some shinning spots?And if you so gently touch the edge, if you feel it chipped ?
Also if any raquin owners have experienced any warping in the blade. I am asking this because If I ever decide to buy one


----------



## Tristan (Apr 3, 2020)

Thanks for starting this thread.
Now I’m keen to try a raquin.
People need to stop pretending to ask things when they are instead trying to find support for their preconceived notions.


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

esoo said:


> https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-rules-rates/index_en.htm
> 
> I wouldn't have said it if I didn't just have to get a EU retailer to credit me back VAT they charged.



interesting. You were able to get the VAT back, that makes sense.

My question is: is it a crime for the vendor to charge the VAT in the first place? EG: not if he has to refund it, but if he can be in legal trouble in his country ?

you have to be registered for VAT in the first place to be able to charge it .... but that’s a different topic altogether.


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## tgfencer (Apr 3, 2020)

Codered said:


> What I would like to know about raquin knives is the following: how is the edge retention and if it chips or roll if you zero grind it. What i mean is if you take the freshly sharpened knife and viciously chop (not gentle push or pull) some vegetables on the wooden board and then look at the edge in the light from tip to heel. Will you see some shinning spots?And if you so gently touch the edge, if you feel it chipped ?
> Also if any raquin owners have experienced any warping in the blade. I am asking this because If I ever decide to buy one



I have not had any problems with chipping or rolled edges, but that may be dependent on sharpening ability. 

As for warping, his KT are fairly stiff and probably not anymore susceptible to warping than most other knives. His normal, non-KT grind is thinner and a little more flexible, but again, probably not something to be overly concerned about.

I have an older, thin-forged gyuto that is definitely an outlier in terms of size at 320mmx60ish+ and is quite flexible. Probably as prime a candidate for warping as you'll find, I imagine. Never had a problem with it so far (probably 3 years old). The good thing is, if it does warp a little over the years, it will be easy to bend back.


----------



## Matt Zilliox (Apr 3, 2020)

Codered said:


> What I would like to know about raquin knives is the following: how is the edge retention and if it chips or roll if you zero grind it. What i mean is if you take the freshly sharpened knife and viciously chop (not gentle push or pull) some vegetables on the wooden board and then look at the edge in the light from tip to heel. Will you see some shinning spots?And if you so gently touch the edge, if you feel it chipped ?
> Also if any raquin owners have experienced any warping in the blade. I am asking this because If I ever decide to buy one



i have not noticed these problems on my nakiri yet. however, its a convex grind, so i keep it convexed, i dont grind it flat to sharpen the knife as that would decrease its performance IMO.


----------



## Eloh (Apr 3, 2020)

Codered said:


> What I would like to know about raquin knives is the following: how is the edge retention and if it chips or roll if you zero grind it. What i mean is if you take the freshly sharpened knife and viciously chop (not gentle push or pull) some vegetables on the wooden board and then look at the edge in the light from tip to heel. Will you see some shinning spots?And if you so gently touch the edge, if you feel it chipped ?
> Also if any raquin owners have experienced any warping in the blade. I am asking this because If I ever decide to buy one



The edge holds up better than most similar steels i tried. you can fairly easily bend the knife like all knives with similar construction, wich is one reason i dont prefer these types, also its fairly reactive.


----------



## esoo (Apr 3, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> interesting. You were able to get the VAT back, that makes sense.
> 
> My question is: is it a crime for the vendor to charge the VAT in the first place? EG: not if he has to refund it, but if he can be in legal trouble in his country ?
> 
> you have to be registered for VAT in the first place to be able to charge it .... but that’s a different topic altogether.



Well that document does say VAT isn't to be charged on exports, so armchair wise, I would say it shouldn't be charged in the first place. But I'm not an EU lawyer, and this kind of wording is where lawyers make their money.


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## Corradobrit1 (Apr 3, 2020)

Maybe its time for a reminder
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/my-bnib-narra-honyaki-gyuto-wedges-badly.44322/

I'd have thought that experience would have taught a lesson that not everything shiny (with a fancy handle) is gold. In my experience if a knife or maker is hyped (by people I respect in the community) its with very good reason. Plenty of hyped makers out there who are undeserving of that status IMO, but they have usually gained little to no traction in the KKF community and for good reason.

I would rather buy from a blade smith who perfects a great style with incremental changes than one that generates a multitude of different designs, steels, finishes, profiles and grinds. Taking an automotive analogy, here's a reason why the Porsche 911 has been so successful for so many decades. Bryans knives may 'look' crude with their Kurouchi finish but its my understanding that its harder to pull off a great, authentic (as opposed to an applied) Ku finish, than one thats ground and brushed/polished.

As an aside, there was an interesting comment on one of Maksims IG posts for the Kato Ku knives recently asking why the blades were all scratched up, as if it was a sign of bad/careless manufacture. I thought those marks were from a straightening process on a roller, when it appears they are really an effect of the firing clay interacting with the Ku itself.

I will say, having tried many different makers and styles of blade finish, that Ku knives have generally been better performers than those that are polished. As for handles, give me a non-stabilized, open grain natural wood ANY day. For me performance is king. If I want to admire a bit of high performance bling I'll pull out the Ashi Honyaki. BRRRRRRPPP


----------



## Eitan78 (Apr 3, 2020)

tgfencer said:


> When in quarantine all there is to do is stir the pot and make popcorn...


----------



## Supraunleaded (Apr 3, 2020)

nakneker said:


> I have so many things I want to say but ..... I think I’ll just shut up.



+1000

BTW: Bryan is a forum member as well. A forum search will yield an archive of past user posts on Bryan's work and their impressions. Bryan himself also posts in the forums, so I'll let his posts do the talking:

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/just-a-few-words.28476/

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/gyuto-how-its-made.28604/

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/my-steel.29256/

I had a much longer reply but at the end of the day, I'm just an unknown poster who probably won't carry much weight on your opinions.

Tl;dr: Buy what you like.

P.S. Forgot to add, @bryan03 , if I had the authority, I'd make you a _Meilleurs Ouvriers de France. _


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## Panamapeet (Apr 3, 2020)

esoo said:


> Well that document does say VAT isn't to be charged on exports, so armchair wise, I would say it shouldn't be charged in the first place. But I'm not an EU lawyer, and this kind of wording is where lawyers make their money.


Both of you guys should stop talking about VAT because clearly both of you have no idea what you’re talking about and its starting to look uglier by the second.

First of all, lets not imply someone is not complying with his tax obligations if there is no hard proof that its true.

Secondly, VAT is not due by law on exports to third party states (technically it is due but against a 0% rate), but if someone would charge it, the VAT would be due and payable (by the customer to the vendor and subsequently by the vendor to the tax authorities). Now lets go back to the real topic: telling OP why he needs a raquin.

PS: also, talking about taxes is boring as ****. Take it from me.


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## bahamaroot (Apr 3, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Briochy, completely wonder that myself along with a few others. No doubt its ignorance on my part, I've been in this hobby too long.
> 
> My only confrontational statement is its funny how brand new members are coming at you. *Wish they had an ignore button on here*.


They do, you just have to look for it.


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

Panamapeet said:


> Both of you guys should stop talking about VAT because clearly both of you have no idea what you’re talking about and its starting to look uglier by the second.
> 
> First of all, lets not imply someone is not complying with his tax obligations if there is no hard proof that its true.
> 
> ...



As you apparently are an expert on VAT, you can easily answer the question we had, no? Is the vendor legally obliged NOT to charge VAT to third party countries? Or CAN he charge it (and then also has to pay said amount to authorities in his country - can’t keep it to himself of course)?

One of us said the former, the other the latter.

Thank you


----------



## Panamapeet (Apr 3, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> As you apparently are an expert on VAT, you can easily answer the question we had, no? Is the vendor legally obliged NOT to charge VAT to third party countries? Or CAN he charge it (and then also has to pay said amount to authorities in his country - can’t keep it to himself of course)?
> 
> One of us said the former, the other the latter.
> 
> Thank you


As I’m not a French lawyer I will not (and neither should you, hahah)


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

Panamapeet said:


> As I’m not a French lawyer I will not (and neither should you, hahah)



Let me get this right: you first tell me and another poster that we should stop posting about it because we’re both clueless, then chime in yourself with your take on VAT law and now say that neither you nor me should say something about that topic?

Ok. Gotcha!


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## Gregmega (Apr 3, 2020)

A quick compare/contrast of the sentiments between pros vs collectors would be rather illuminating.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Apr 3, 2020)

Maybe you guys can take the chat about VAT to the Off Topic Forum?


----------



## Panamapeet (Apr 3, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Let me get this right: you first tell me and another poster that we should stop posting about it because we’re both clueless, then chime in yourself with your take on VAT law and now say that neither you nor me should say something about that topic?
> 
> Ok. Gotcha!


I will DM you why you are wrong


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Maybe you guys can take the chat about VAT to the Off Topic Forum?



All good!

Had the Q answered by a tax lawyer offline ...


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## esoo (Apr 3, 2020)

I going to say this publicly - @bryan03 reached out to me about my comments. I apologized to him as I made comments based on things that I didn't verify (how he charges VAT). I know that as someone from Canada, I should not pay it but I honestly didn't verify if he charges it. That's my mistake, and I'm going to make my apology public as well, as my comments above could be taken for bashing him - which is not the case.


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## nutmeg (Apr 3, 2020)

by it's called TVA in France..

ok, sorry!


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## bryan03 (Apr 3, 2020)

Hi
Just a quick note here , France have multiple tax status , mine is very simple.
If you buy a knife from me , you payed the price ht ( without taxes) no vat , anything...
Europe or not it’s the same ....
So no it’s not cheaper if you are in Europe or anywhere else .
If you speak French or if you have some good medicine you can check the *article 293 B du CGI French tax code ...*


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## bryan03 (Apr 3, 2020)

But you country can ask you to pay some taxes when the box arrive , but it’s not my business ....


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

bryan03 said:


> Hi
> Just a quick note here , France have multiple tax status , mine is very simple.
> If you buy a knife from me , you payed the price ht ( without taxes) no vat , anything...
> Europe or not it’s the same ....
> ...



Thanks for clarifying Bryan and apologies if I said something wrong about this topic!

Your handles are still too long though


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## bryan03 (Apr 3, 2020)

No problem, i always can find something interesting, even in troll .
( you should check the handle seize i have made for the last suji  )




For people who ask about the edge retention or whatever with this steel, just keep in mind it’s nothing magic, it’s a steel close to shirogami 1... so if you don’t like shiro... you don’t like 145sc.


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 3, 2020)

Wow, thanks for a great lunch read, popcorn not required. 

Agree or disagree, & despite that it’s almost derailed by tax talks, it’s one of the quarantine time threads I’ve enjoyed the most reading.


----------



## Gregmega (Apr 3, 2020)




----------



## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2020)

bryan03 said:


> No problem, i always can find something interesting, even in troll .
> ( you should check the handle seize i have made for the last suji  )
> 
> 
> ...



And I though SC145 was the magic bullet than can slay dragons and cut onions without magic you cry


----------



## esoo (Apr 3, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> And I though SC145 was the magic bullet than can slay dragons and cut onions without magic you cry



Isn't that SK4 or one of those? If you blacken the onion as you cut it, it can't let off the crying juice


----------



## McMan (Apr 3, 2020)

I've had two Raquins. Sold one because it was a bit long. Kept a KT 225mm. As others have said, they are true performers--at a surprising level.

There are many good decisions by Raquin that go into his knives.
One of his decisions is not to polish his knives. This is not a mark of lack of effort or whatever nonsense. It's just one decision. Another decisions is to forge in a fairly complex compound geometry (shallow forged-S and then some). To do this well is challenging, takes skill to do right (and to coax out the performance attributes), and shows a bunch of other decisions. It's not necessarily easy to see unless you know to look. 
OP's posts speak a bit to the old adage: "You don't know what you don't know."

I'm not sure why OP chose Isasmedjan to compare to Raquin. Apples/Oranges. Very different knives. True that both are made by EU makers, but that's about it--very different styles, grinds, etc. Both nice, but for different reasons.
Perhaps a more apt comparison would be Raquin-Catcheside because both do versions of forged geometry. In which case, Raquin is lower priced and hence a deal. In this case, is it the KU finish that kept the price down and hence a bonus? Close to Apples/Apples?

Lastly, some of the comments read as disparaging to Raquin. Perhaps this is intentional, perhaps it's not. I think it's fine to want to learn more about a knife that one hasn't tried yet--I do it on KKF every day! Operative word here is "learn". Judging a knife without having tried it (or accumulated a ton of trusted information) is a different ballgame.


----------



## daveb (Apr 3, 2020)

P.Smash said:


> They don't really blow my hair back.......But hey, if a simple, mostly adequate blade is your jam then roll with it Hoss



Uhmmmm, Hoss isn't in this discussion. A characteristic display of wisdom on his part.


----------



## P.Smash (Apr 3, 2020)

daveb said:


> Uhmmmm, Hoss isn't in this discussion. A characteristic display of wisdom on his part.



Got it......thanks for the info, Sport


----------



## bahamaroot (Apr 3, 2020)

Briochy said:


> ...There are 1,496 other knifemakers that use fancier handles and polish their knives to mirror finish with (presumably) equally good grind and some are at the same price or even cheaper...


This makes the assumption that you've tried or inspected 1,496 different makers knives to reach this conclusion....?


----------



## P.Smash (Apr 3, 2020)

Where's that beating a dead horse emoji......


----------



## daveb (Apr 3, 2020)

P.Smash said:


> Got it......thanks for the info, Sport



You'll come to understand. Maybe as soon as your second week here


----------



## Tristan (Apr 3, 2020)

Gregmega said:


> A quick compare/contrast of the sentiments between pros vs collectors would be rather illuminating.



This would be interesting to me.
Heavy use at home would still not reach levels of use at home. And I’m certain the value system would be potentially different too.
I doubt either set of values need to conform fully to once or the other view, but would certainly be interesting.


----------



## Tristan (Apr 3, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Let me get this right: you first tell me and another poster that we should stop posting about it because we’re both clueless, then chime in yourself with your take on VAT law and now say that neither you nor me should say something about that topic?
> 
> Ok. Gotcha!



Sigh. Thought the purpose of forums was to be helpful?


----------



## GorillaGrunt (Apr 4, 2020)

Because it’s the best cutting performance of any knife I’ve ever used now including Kato. My local knifemaker who sells at a similar price level felt up the grind and said, “this guy is good. I can’t do something like this.” Also the 145SC steel afaik Raquin has all of it and is the only one who makes knives with it right now; this by itself doesn’t mean anything but it’s really good steel. Mizuno KS as an example cost just as much and cuts *almost* as well.


----------



## Matt Zilliox (Apr 4, 2020)

so did you learn something yet OP?


----------



## lemeneid (Apr 5, 2020)

Briochy said:


> I mean, he is not even a legendary ancient swordsmith like TF.


I'm a TF fanboy and all but TF and Kato, etc,... sword makers who moved to making knives are sh1t swordsmiths.


----------



## Briochy (Apr 5, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> I'm a TF fanboy and all but TF and Kato, etc,... sword makers who moved to making knives are sh1t swordsmiths.


LOL


----------



## GorillaGrunt (Apr 5, 2020)

I heard a rumor I just started that Raquin is a direct descendant of the legendary smith that forged Durendal, legendary sword of the legendary paladin Roland.


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## alterwisser (Apr 5, 2020)

GorillaGrunt said:


> I heard a rumor I just started that Raquin is a direct descendant of the legendary smith that forged Durendal, legendary sword of the legendary paladin Roland.



I heard he himself made the Guillotine used to let blue blood flow freely ....


----------



## daveb (Apr 5, 2020)

I thought Paladin was a six shooter kind of guy...


----------



## Receiver52 (Apr 5, 2020)

Yup. Have Gun Will Travel. Showing our age


----------



## madelinez (Apr 5, 2020)

This thread makes my head hurt.


----------



## Gregmega (Apr 5, 2020)

madelinez said:


> This thread makes my head hurt.


You’re not alone


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## mengosmoothie (Apr 5, 2020)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Because it’s the best cutting performance of any knife I’ve ever used now including Kato. My local knifemaker who sells at a similar price level felt up the grind and said, “this guy is good. I can’t do something like this.” Also the 145SC steel afaik Raquin has all of it and is the only one who makes knives with it right now; this by itself doesn’t mean anything but it’s really good steel. Mizuno KS as an example cost just as much and cuts *almost* as well.



Thanks for sharing. It means a lot more when someone from within the trade praises a piece of work as GOOD.

Do you mind sharing a little about the grind? What exactly is special about the way Raquin does the forge shaping. 

FWIW, this thread has been entertaining. I am a knife noob compared to everyone on the forum and has definitely got Raquin way up on my radar. Prior to this, I had never heard of him, so very happy I stumbled on this while in bed.


----------



## GorillaGrunt (Apr 5, 2020)

We don’t actually know - someone else on here probably has a better idea and of course Bryan himself is here. As far as Nate could tell it’s not as simple as just as S grind or hollow in the middle; convexity near the edge maybe, the narrow height of the wide bevels but done differently than current Takedas, ???


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## mengosmoothie (Apr 6, 2020)

GorillaGrunt said:


> We don’t actually know - someone else on here probably has a better idea and of course Bryan himself is here. As far as Nate could tell it’s not as simple as just as S grind or hollow in the middle; convexity near the edge maybe, the narrow height of the wide bevels but done differently than current Takedas, ???



Thanks, that really piques my interest. Hopefully we can get @bryan03 to share his secret sauce about his killer grind.


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## GorillaGrunt (Apr 15, 2020)

Also something I noticed the other day using it: it has as thin a tip as anything, Kato, Heiji, Mizuno, Martell, Tanaka — but it doesn’t feel at all fragile like some of those. Again I’m not sure why, stiffness, spine profile, some combination of factors.


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## pentryumf (Jun 9, 2020)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Also something I noticed the other day using it: it has as thin a tip as anything, Kato, Heiji, Mizuno, Martell, Tanaka — but it doesn’t feel at all fragile like some of those. Again I’m not sure why, stiffness, spine profile, some combination of factors.



I can concur, with your findings. I have a Xerxes in SC125, with a very thin tip, 0.5mm at 3mm from tip...
I bought a second hand Raquin as I await for my custom order from Bryan, hopefully arriving in a year or two....I hope!!
Bryan's work is superb, for its sublime simplicity and subtle specificity. I have only used the one and with a 0.7 at 3mm from tip it doesn't feel nearly as delicate as the Xerxes.
I do not judge anyone for liking one maker more than any other, to each their own.....However a Raquin is what I would suggest anyone try regardless of their preferences.....given their budget will allow it. it is worth it!


----------



## Gregmega (Jun 10, 2020)

pentryumf said:


> I can concur, with your findings. I have a Xerxes in SC125, with a very thin tip, 0.5mm at 3mm from tip...
> I bought a second hand Raquin as I await for my custom order from Bryan, hopefully arriving in a year or two....I hope!!
> Bryan's work is superb, for its sublime simplicity and subtle specificity. I have only used the one and with a 0.7 at 3mm from tip it doesn't feel nearly as delicate as the Xerxes.
> I do not judge anyone for liking one maker more than any other, to each their own.....However a Raquin is what I would suggest anyone try regardless of their preferences.....given their budget will allow it. it is worth it!


the steel is second to none, tough as nails but the Xerxes is opposite in the finish- Bryan’s are more of the rustic vibe for sure.


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## alterwisser (Jun 10, 2020)

pentryumf said:


> I can concur, with your findings. I have a Xerxes in SC125, with a very thin tip, 0.5mm at 3mm from tip...
> I bought a second hand Raquin as I await for my custom order from Bryan, hopefully arriving in a year or two....I hope!!
> Bryan's work is superb, for its sublime simplicity and subtle specificity. I have only used the one and with a 0.7 at 3mm from tip it doesn't feel nearly as delicate as the Xerxes.
> I do not judge anyone for liking one maker more than any other, to each their own.....However a Raquin is what I would suggest anyone try regardless of their preferences.....given their budget will allow it. it is worth it!



custom order with Raquin?

now there’s a Unicorn. Or maybe it’s a Fata Morgana


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## zizirex (Jun 10, 2020)

I wish he open order for a custom, but even getting one from his release is almost impossible.
if there's one in BST it would be gone in 5 minutes.


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## madelinez (Jun 10, 2020)

If he opened for customs his queue would be 10 years long.


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## alterwisser (Jun 11, 2020)

AFAIK he doesn’t like customs ...

and if I were him I would never ever agree to make customs. He makes knives the way HE wants to make them and they always sell out right away. Why would he EVER take on the nightmare of making customs?

Making customs is a PITA because we (the customer) often are


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## HSC /// Knives (Jun 11, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> AFAIK he doesn’t like customs ...
> 
> and if I were him I would never ever agree to make customs. He makes knives the way HE wants to make them and they always sell out right away. Why would he EVER take on the nightmare of making customs?
> 
> Making customs is a PITA because we (the customer) often are


one of the reasons I think it's useful to take a custom order is because it puts you in touch with the customer...note that I'm not suggesting those who don't take orders are out of touch.


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## alterwisser (Jun 11, 2020)

HSC /// Knives said:


> one of the reasons I think it's useful to take a custom order is because it puts you in touch with the customer...note that I'm not suggesting those who don't take orders are out of touch.



if I were a knife maker, I would do max 5 custom orders per year ....


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## Matus (Jun 11, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> if I were a knife maker, I would do max 5 custom orders per year ....



I am safely under that limit


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## zizirex (Jun 11, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Making customs is a PITA because we (the customer) often are



And I get that part especially after seeing people from this forum 

maybe if he could do a pre-order from one of his knives, that would be nice.


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## alterwisser (Jun 12, 2020)

HSC /// Knives said:


> one of the reasons I think it's useful to take a custom order is because it puts you in touch with the customer...note that I'm not suggesting those who don't take orders are out of touch.



i think it really depends on the maker: some are good at being in touch with customers and WANT to be, while making few to no customs. Others make a lot of customs and are really bad at being in touch with customers. Like: AWFULLY bad (not naming names here lol).


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## HSC /// Knives (Jun 12, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> i think it really depends on the maker: some are good at being in touch with customers and WANT to be, while making few to no customs. Others make a lot of customs and are really bad at being in touch with customers. Like: AWFULLY bad (not naming names here lol).


right, to clarify, I meant "in touch" with the customer's preferences and desires and specifications.
not so much in terms of communication.
Custom orders also can challenge you to do something different, increasing your skill set.


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## bryan03 (Jun 12, 2020)

Last time someone asked me for a custom order it seems the guy never looked what I usually do...
It was like a Damascus stainless folding sujihiki with mammouth handle or something like that .

Or specs on demande like 58,64mm at heel and thickness control every 5mm at the shinogi 
or the famous « sorry the blade is too small for me , I asked 243mm and it’s only 240mm , I want a full refund « 

i stoped making kamisori custom because that , I don’t want to stop making kitchen knife .
So no custom order for the moment and since that I never wanted to kill someone


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## ian (Jun 12, 2020)

bryan03 said:


> Last time someone asked me for a custom order it seems the guy never looked what I usually do...
> It was like a Damascus stainless folding sujihiki with mammouth handle or something like that .
> 
> Or specs on demande like 58,64mm at heel and thickness control every 5mm at the shinogi
> ...



Have you thought of doing a deposit system, where we pay 50 euros or something to put our name on a list for one of your standard knives, and then you contact us when one is available, and we forfeit the deposit if we don’t follow through? Perhaps if the deposit was high enough it would be worth your while. I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that I’ll never get one of your knives otherwise.

I certainly understand that things work just fine from your perspective, though, and I’m sure you came up with the current system for a reason.


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## bryan03 (Jun 12, 2020)

Yes I want to do something like that for a limited number , but now the situation is a bit complicated with the COVID thing...
I can’t works full time ( homeschooling for two
Kids , house works and so ...) 
But I have good hope for September...
Will see .


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## ExistentialHero (Jun 12, 2020)

bryan03 said:


> Yes I want to do something like that for a limited number , but now the situation is a bit complicated with the COVID thing...
> I can’t works full time ( homeschooling for two
> Kids , house works and so ...)
> But I have good hope for September...
> Will see .



You could sell knives for childcare, no problem. I'd do a week for a 270 gyuto


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## ian (Jun 12, 2020)

Same, as long as I can do it virtually. 

Although if trading knives for childcare was really a thing right now, I’d have no knives left.... I’m so desperate....


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## alterwisser (Jun 12, 2020)

ExistentialHero said:


> You could sell knives for childcare, no problem. I'd do a week for a 270 gyuto



you should “charge” way more!

a week of home schooling is equivalent to a full set of: Gyuto, Nakiri, Suji ....

if it’s more than one kid: a Paring or hunters knife for every additional child!


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## alterwisser (Jun 12, 2020)

HSC /// Knives said:


> right, to clarify, I meant "in touch" with the customer's preferences and desires and specifications.
> not so much in terms of communication.
> Custom orders also can challenge you to do something different, increasing your skill set.



Sorry, misunderstood...

not sure I fully agree though.... I think tastes, preferences and especially desires (oh yeah baby!) vary a lot from customer to customer


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## josemartinlopez (Jul 29, 2020)

Could I just ask why none of the Japanese masters have examined a Raquin (or the work of a similar god tier non-Japanese smith) or read threads like this, then made a knife that was even more legendary ancient swordsmith-like? I mean, you'd think the Japanese makers would have the advantage of the decades of tradition, pooled knowledge and family pride, plus a handful of cities with a knifemaking industry. Is it simply because the Japanese makers are businessmen too and there's a limit to the amount of time you can spend on a knife before it simply becomes unprofitable (in the same way your grandmother can afford to do things for Thanksgiving lunch that no restaurant could afford to)? Or might there be a Japanese Raquin out there who already has a waiting list of Japanese fans and has no need to make himself known to people outside?

I'm asking because I was intrigued by a very thoughtful message a member here sent me encouraging me to try a Raquin and others in a short list he sent. Same thoughts as this thread... clearly someone who had tried the very best on everyone's wish lists but still said the Raquin is up, up there.


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## Gregmega (Jul 29, 2020)

I think (Bryan May probably swoop in on this) it’s because he uses a very fundamental approach to knife making- the techniques he’s doing aren’t revelatory to smiths anywhere in the world, he just does simple things incredibly well. That statement doesn’t mean to oversimplify his work- instead to highlight the rustic and effective nature of his style. Simply put, Bryan makes kitchen tools for use. A lot of those techniques have already been practiced in Japan for generations. Other than materials, there’s not a huge break from the basic foundational knowledge shared by the craft the world over. Some people just make good stuff. Plus, you can’t swing a dead cat in Japan without hitting a remarkably talented crafts-person on so many levels, so inspiration in right out your front door.


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## Don Nguyen (Jul 31, 2020)

Here's my take - most makers don't charge enough.

I think Bryan's prices are _extremely _fair. When it comes to anything above $400, you're definitely hitting the point of diminishing return for performance. After that, hopefully hitting the minimum requirement for performance, you're paying for aesthetics, materials, uniqueness, name, and the maker's bills. Most of the more affordable "alternative" options out there for makers that aren't as well known, chances are they're hobbyists or they're newer. They're still learning, they don't have to pay all their expenses with what they make, and/or they simply can't command the higher price necessary to do it as a full-time thing. They might be making knives that are as good or even better than some of the bigger names out there, but they haven't built the reputation and trust that simply takes years of consistency.

Too many people look at specs on a knife and that's all they see. Simple blade, simple finish, simple handle - it must be cheap, right? Is that how you think of food? What about really well done nigiri? It's just some rice and fish. It's the same concept - refinement of taking those components and putting them together in one cohesive thing that _works well_. Honestly I love Bryan's aesthetic, because it's well done. The design, flow, visual balance - IMO it's less of _what_ he's using, but what he's _not_ using. It's very respectful that I can scroll through an entire feed of spectacular knives but I stop on a Raquin and immediately _know_ it's his.


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## josemartinlopez (Jul 31, 2020)

Think anyone who has mastered something would know that the simplest example of that craft can deceptively be the most difficult to execute at the highest level. I just finished Anthony Bourdain's "Kitchen Confidential", and one part talks about how deceptively difficult it can be to make a great but simple dish of just 3-4 ingredients. You can have 3-Michelin chefs demonstrating such dishes for home cooks, but you know there is some special sauce when they do it, right? Like the iPhone, simple design can be quite difficult to conceptualize!


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## GorillaGrunt (Aug 23, 2020)

Raquin’s knife is like when you take a beautiful prime grade steak, season it with precisely the right amount of salt and pepper, and cook it perfectly inside and out. Doesn’t need bearnaise sauce or roasted garlic and smoked tomato butter or wild mushrooms or truffles - it’s a platonic archetype.


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## Byphy (Aug 23, 2020)

People sometimes confuse simple with easy.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 23, 2020)

Byphy said:


> People sometimes confuse simple with easy.


+1. As we know from other fields, the simplest design can be the most difficult and unforgiving to execute.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 23, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> +1. As we know from other fields, the simplest design can be the most difficult and unforgiving to execute.


As a designer, this argument pops up regularly and bugs me every time. No, not really. The more complex a design, the more difficult to execute - that's basic logic. But complexity distracts most people and skews their evaluation, especially laypeople with less appreciation for nuance. They look past errors that would be glaringly obvious in a simpler design. Complexity is always more difficult, and there's nothing counterintuitive at work here.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 23, 2020)

Think you need to talk specifics, and I was speaking broadly including non-creative fields like types of engineering. Or maybe I mean deceptively simple (but quite complex underneath) can be very difficult to execute well.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 23, 2020)

Let's see if I have this straight... I need to be more specific but you're speaking broadly. You're expanding the scope of your original argument to find a place where it works. And you're not really sure what you're talking about. Ok, got it


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## iimi (Aug 23, 2020)

Why change **** that's already perfect


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## ian (Aug 23, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> As a designer, this argument pops up regularly and bugs me every time. No, not really. The more complex a design, the more difficult to execute - that's basic logic. But complexity distracts most people and skews their evaluation, especially laypeople with less appreciation for nuance. They look past errors that would be glaringly obvious in a simpler design. Complexity is always more difficult, and there's nothing counterintuitive at work here.





josemartinlopez said:


> Think you need to talk specifics, and I was speaking broadly including non-creative fields like types of engineering. Or maybe I mean deceptively simple (but quite complex underneath) can be very difficult to execute well.



Ok, let’s calm down. Obviously both simple and complex can be hard to execute depending on the situation.

I was a violinist in a past life, and my quartet and I would always talk about how Mozart quartets were ‘hard’, in spite of being much simpler than more modern pieces. The difficulty is that everything you do is totally exposed and immediately obvious to the audience. With something like Shostakovich, the audience isn’t always as familiar with the structure of the piece, or with the types of harmony he uses, and there’s often much more going on at once so it’s much easier to hide errors. Similarly, at the end of Beethoven’s 9th symphony there’s all this hard, fast craziness in the first violin part, but it’s partially hidden by the wall of sound the rest of the orchestra is creating, so a missed note here and there won’t matter as much.


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## ian (Aug 23, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> But complexity distracts most people and skews their evaluation, especially laypeople with less appreciation for nuance. They look past errors that would be glaringly obvious in a simpler design.



Although reading your post again, you basically made the same point I did. So, why is it so upsetting to you? Yes, executing a complex thing perfectly may be harder that executing a simple thing perfectly. But no execution is ever perfect, and we’re always working within the tolerances allowed by the buyer/listerer/etc... Of course, I don’t know your field, so maybe this is less applicable to you than it is generally.


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 23, 2020)

ian said:


> Although reading your post again, you basically made the same point I did. So, why is it so upsetting to you? Yes, executing a complex thing perfectly may be harder that executing a simple thing perfectly. But no execution is ever perfect, and we’re always working within the tolerances allowed by the buyer/listerer/etc... Of course, I don’t know your field, so maybe this is less applicable to you than it is generally.


Well given his username, if he's building space vehicles and rockets I wouldn't want a 'good enough' approach.


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## ian (Aug 23, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Well given his username, if he's building space vehicles and rockets I wouldn't want a 'good enough' approach.



heh, fair enough. although I thought the topic here was fancy knives...

i imagine even rocket designers operate according to ‘good enough’, though. Their tolerances are probably just tighter than those used by string quarters.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 23, 2020)

If you're actually curious, I'm an industrial design engineer. There's a fair amount of tolerance allowed in my work, with some hard limits - like fitting inside the product box, and doing everything the electrical engineers demand (lol ). I don't have any issue with the way you've phrased it because we agree - complexity makes it easier to hide errors. But if you re-read the original iteration it's pretty obnoxious.


josemartinlopez said:


> +1. As we know from other fields, the simplest design can be the most difficult and unforgiving to execute.


What fields exactly, and how do "we" know how difficult something is to _execute_ if we don't work in them? If JML is secretly a renaissance man with a broad life experience, I'll retract everything. But it strikes me as the typical know-it-all-layman point of view.

Like people who say the Cybertruck is simple and dumb. It's ugly, for sure, which is an opinion anyone is qualified to make. But after a certain number of bar conversations with mansplaining braggarts, it gets under your skin when people claim they can know how difficult something was to execute just by looking at it.

And they all seem to agree on this conventional wisdom - 'simplicity is more difficult'  No, it's really not. They just don't have the ability to perceive more than 4-5 design elements at once.


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## juice (Aug 23, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Like people who say the Cybertruck is simple and dumb. It's ugly, for sure, which is an opinion anyone is qualified to make. But after a certain number of bar conversations with mansplaining braggarts, it gets under your skin when people claim they can know how difficult something was to execute just by looking at it.


That's probably also because of the Elon factor, because he's frequently such an arse. Doesn't mean he's wrong in that instance, of course, but it's an underlying condition.


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## M1k3 (Aug 23, 2020)

Where's the cyberknives? Are is this a cyberderailing?


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## DitmasPork (Aug 26, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> +1. As we know from other fields, the simplest design can be the most difficult and unforgiving to execute.



Who do you mean by 'we'? Elaborate on your point.


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## McMan (Aug 26, 2020)

He's using the "Royal We"...


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## ian (Aug 30, 2020)

I was reading this bread book by Jeffrey Hamelman and something made me think of all you wonderful people.


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## F-Flash (Sep 9, 2020)

Anyone has insight how birgersson and Yannick compare to Raquins?


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## DitmasPork (Sep 12, 2020)

A blade forward beast.


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