# nakiri



## jdsmith561 (Apr 18, 2015)

I purchased my first nakiri recently. Tojiro Stainless Wa-Nakiri 165mm from chef knives to go. The second day I had it I chipped the edge of the blade on a sharpener. The blade is chrome vanadium. I am looking to buy another nakiri in the future. What's a good blade or steel that dosent chip easily. I was kinda upset when it happened. Please get back to me somebody


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## chinacats (Apr 18, 2015)

Greetings! 

When you say a sharpener, what exactly do you mean? As to the source of your knife, that is another story...

Just realized this is in the new member check-in, may want to post in the main forum so the thread will be seen more.

Cheers


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## daveb (Apr 18, 2015)

If you'll post a pic you'll probably get some advise on how to fix the chip. Advise will no doubt involve a stone.

To your question, the "chipped the edge...on a sharpener" part may warrant some examination. Is that sharpener like instead of a stone? Pull through? EPro? I think you may have a technique issue and not a steel issue.

Good luck.


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## malexthekid (Apr 18, 2015)

I tend to agree with daveb. When i first moved into my house i bought a scanpan knife set with one off their pull through v sharpeners and it got "clogged"one day abs destroyed the edge of one of the knives.


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## maiko (Apr 19, 2015)

I'm not sure what you mean by "chrome vanadium" ... if you have the Tojiro DP, then the blade is VG-10. VG-10 is known to be chippy, at least in some knives (Shun, for one). Regardless, I think the other posters are rightly curious about chipping during sharpening. This shouldn't really happen unless you're using a sharpening kit unsuitable for your knife. If you are using a sharpening kit, I'd advise switching to whetstones. If you don't want to use whetstones, consider the Spyderco sharpmaker. Its easy to use and should not chip your edge. The sharpmaker makes it easy to put a 15' bevel on each side of your knife and a 20' micro-bevel, if you so choose. I use the sharpmaker for my pocket knifes and it puts a "good enough" edge on VG10.


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 19, 2015)

The sharpener I was using is a type I've never before seen. It has two steel rods in the shape of an "x". But they are not in a fixed position. They have give to them. The "x" will turn into a "v" shape depending on how far down you go. No doubt it was my fault, I sharpened my blade but couldn't resist slowly pulling it through one last time, and went as far as the rods would give and it chipped my blade. I didn't do it hard at all though. In my opinion the blade is very brittle. Just wondering if there is anything out there not so brittle. The blade core is molybdenum vanadium steel, outside 13 chrome stainless. That's why I said chrome vanadium. Same as Case pocket knives I assumed, that's why I said chrome vanadium. I do not have any stones, or really any sharpeners, nothing I would put my blade on anyway. Just what they have at work. The one afore mentioned


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## chinacats (Apr 19, 2015)

The knife will be fine once you get to some fresh steel. Suggest picking up an inexpensive waterstone and learning to sharpen...no time like the present.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 19, 2015)

The "sharpener" you used wasn't intended to be used on any knives other than the relatively soft house knives. It doesn't actually sharpen, but rather only straightens the rolled edge to restore some cutting ability. It is definitely not to be used on your nakiri, which you found out the hard way.

You will need a waterstone to properly maintain your nakiri, as _chinacats_ has said.


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## chefcomesback (Apr 19, 2015)

Vg-10 is chippy ?? Not with my experience with tojiro and hattori fh, stuff like this gets taken as if it's the holy grail of knife steel info , what angle they were sharpened to begin with ??


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## Geo87 (Apr 19, 2015)

Vg-10 isn't chippy. People are chippy


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 19, 2015)

Thanks for the input everyone. Especially about the sharpener. I did notice the blade stayed very sharp a few days out of the box, once I used the sharpener in the kitchen at work it only seemed to stay sharp an hour. Definity gonna have to buy a stone. Any suggestions for a single stone (as far as grit is concerned). Can't afford a set of stones at the time being. I absolutely love the work I do, but it dosent pay well. Guess it's more a hobby than anything. As far as it being "chippy" I would say it is. It chipped on the corner closest to the handle also. Very small and barley noticble, but that was also my fault. Kinda twisted it a little. Can anyone suggest a great nakiri, and wher it can be purchased, under$300, just for future reference


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 19, 2015)

The knives supplied in the restaurant I work at are Chinese cleaver. About an $8 knife, I loomed them up. But when I worked for the company previously the had nakiris, and I never seen one chip the whole time I was there.


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## chinacats (Apr 20, 2015)

I'd recommend buying a King combination stone 1k/6k...they are fairly inexpensive. You'll need to get some sandpaper to keep them flat...the 1k side will tend to dish more than the 6k, but for the price this is decent quality starter stone.


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 20, 2015)

Thanks for the info


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## maiko (Apr 20, 2015)

chefcomesback said:


> Vg-10 is chippy ?? Not with my experience with tojiro and hattori fh, stuff like this gets taken as if it's the holy grail of knife steel info , what angle they were sharpened to begin with ??





Geo87 said:


> Vg-10 isn't chippy. People are chippy



http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/9073-Whats-the-Deal-with-Shun-and-VG-10-Steel

http://www.cheftalk.com/t/72940/so-upset-w-shun-chefs-chipping#post_406514


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 21, 2015)

The knife I have isn't Vg-10 atleast not classified as that on chef knives to go. I've seen others of the same maker that's vg-10. In the future I plan on buying the "Kajiwara Damascus Nakiri 165mm". But before I do, anythoughts on it. Anyone have one or know the pros and cons. Is it chippy? Lol


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## daveb (Apr 21, 2015)

If you would like opinions on your next purchase you would do well to fill out the knife questionnaire at the top of this sub-forum. Pls include some thoughts on why you are buying a 2nd Nakiri - what you would like different, what you like about the Kajiwara, etc. You will receive advice tailored to your requirements. Off top of my head the Kajiwara looks like a yawner.


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## ThEoRy (Apr 21, 2015)

It chipped because of the weak edge you put on it. Regardless of steel type a weak edge is a weak edge.


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## chefcomesback (Apr 21, 2015)

maiko said:


> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/9073-Whats-the-Deal-with-Shun-and-VG-10-Steel
> 
> http://www.cheftalk.com/t/72940/so-upset-w-shun-chefs-chipping#post_406514



I have quoted tojiro and hattori , did I mention shun ?? Thanks for the links , I have sharpened , used , thinned , reprofiled and ground enough knives to have an idea about my statements


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## Geo87 (Apr 21, 2015)

maiko said:


> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/9073-Whats-the-Deal-with-Shun-and-VG-10-Steel
> 
> http://www.cheftalk.com/t/72940/so-upset-w-shun-chefs-chipping#post_406514



I just disagree with the overgeneralised statement that all vg-10 is chippy. It just isn't. 
In saying that I don't want to get into another thread derailing argument about shuns and vg-10 we've been down this road. 

Here's a link with a lot of people agreeing that shuns chipping is user error : 
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=16614

I'm not saying I like shuns. Just don't like people assuming all vg-10 is chippy.


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## Bolek (Apr 22, 2015)

maiko said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "chrome vanadium" ... if you have the Tojiro DP, then the blade is VG-10. VG-10 is known to be chippy, at least in some knives (Shun, for one). Regardless, I think the other posters are rightly curious about chipping during sharpening. This shouldn't really happen unless you're using a sharpening kit unsuitable for your knife. If you are using a sharpening kit, I'd advise switching to whetstones. If you don't want to use whetstones, consider the Spyderco sharpmaker. Its easy to use and should not chip your edge. The sharpmaker makes it easy to put a 15' bevel on each side of your knife and a 20' micro-bevel, *if you so choose*. I use the sharpmaker for my pocket knifes and it puts a "good enough" edge on VG10.



When is it advisable to put a 20° micro-bevel on a 15° bevel ? Does it make next sharppening with the sharpmaker longer or mor difficult ? Which triangle stone should I use (the UF) ?
How many stroks for a soft european SS ? How many stroks for an old carbon ?


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## CompE (Apr 22, 2015)

Quick answers to your specific questions:


Bolek said:


> When is it advisable to put a 20° micro-bevel on a 15° bevel ?


The lower the angle that you sharpen at, the "sharper" the edge, but also the weaker the edge. Putting a very-very small micro-bevel at a higher angle will give you a longer lasting edge, but it will perform better than if you simply sharpen at a lower angle to begin with. I wouldn't consider 15 degrees per side to require a micro-bevel. My micro-bevels might have a total included angle of 30 degrees. Caveat: I'm not a pro, so you might find that you need a 40 degree inclusive micro bevel on a 30 degree inclusive edge.


Bolek said:


> Does it make next sharppening with the sharpmaker longer or mor difficult ?


Putting a micro bevel on an edge doesn't make it more difficult with water stones, so I see no reason it would affect it with a sharpmaker. It only makes it more difficult if your micro bevel isn't micro.


Bolek said:


> Which triangle stone should I use (the UF) ?


With waterstones (and I'm assuming that it's the same with the sharpmaker) the stone that you start off with depends on how dull the edge is. If it just needs a touch-up, you will start with a finer stone. If you've gone through a number of touch-ups and it isn't holding very long, start with a coarser stone. You only use your finest stone to add a micro bevel at the end.


Bolek said:


> How many stroks for a soft european SS ? How many stroks for an old carbon ?


Don't count strokes on any knife. Examine your progress as you go. On a coarse stone, you raise a burr. On subsequent finer stones you reduce the burr (if you didn't strop it off between stones, otherwise you are forming a new, smaller burr) and remove the scratches from the previous stone. If you add a micro bevel, stop when the micro bevel barely visible.

I suggest that even if you want to use other methods, you learn about how sharpening on water stones. You can start here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEBF55079F53216AB

Although the above videos cover a specific method for sharpening, what you are attempting to do to the knife at each step is essentially the same no matter what sharpening method you use.


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## Bolek (Apr 22, 2015)

CompE said:


> Quick answers to your specific questions:
> 
> The lower the angle that you sharpen at, the "sharper" the edge, but also the weaker the edge. Putting a very-very small micro-bevel at a higher angle will give you a longer lasting edge, but it will perform better than if you simply sharpen at a lower angle to begin with. I wouldn't consider 15 degrees per side to require a micro-bevel. My micro-bevels might have a total included angle of 30 degrees. Caveat: I'm not a pro, so you might find that you need a 40 degree inclusive micro bevel on a 30 degree inclusive edge.
> 
> ...


Thanks.
I'll end up with sharpening on water stones. But I'm a bit slow. Today I mostly use rough sandpaper (if needed) then spiderco ceramic medium, fine and ultra fine.
But how can I know that the microbevel is OK to stope sharppening ?


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 22, 2015)

Where exactly do I find the questionare. Can't find it. I pretty much go through about 15-20 onions a day. Mostly julienne. Cut some one inch squares. About the same amount of red bells. About 10 green bells. One inch shares. A few I make eigth of an inch wide sticks. I chiffonde mint, Thai basil, cilantro. I quarter a good amount of white mushrooms. Make cucumber batons. Also mangos. I mince ginger, been using the house cleavers on that and the lemon grass though. Sometimes cut limes and lemons when other people are behind on it. I cut orange peels. I cut scallions. 3 inch sticks, quarter inch white rings, eight inch green rings, a box of 5 or six packs on average.. Also cut spinach leaves in half. I know I'm leaving out several things. So I definantly like the light weight knives. Compared to the 14 ounce Chinese cleavers they supply for the job. Wanna spend around $300 at most. That's what I do 6 days a week on average. So a good knife for that


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 22, 2015)

Shiitake mushrooms, left that out. Slice those up pretty thin, after they've soaked


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 22, 2015)

Oh yeah, cut snap peas into 1/4 inch pieces, and also cut about 10 tomatoes into 1/4 squares daily


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## ThEoRy (Apr 22, 2015)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...hich-Knife-Should-I-Buy-quot-Questionnaire-v2


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 22, 2015)

Thanks for the link. It's a closed thread though it says.


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## ThEoRy (Apr 22, 2015)

jdsmith561 said:


> Thanks for the link. It's a closed thread though it says.



You copy paste it here and fill in your answers.


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## ThEoRy (Apr 22, 2015)

LOCATION
What country are you in?



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Are you right or left handed?

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 22, 2015)

What country are you in?

USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Nakiri

Are you right or left handed?

Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Japanese 

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

165mm-180mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

$300

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Professional environment

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

Slicing and chopping veggies

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Tijiro stainless wa-nakiri 165mm

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

Slice and chop


What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

A blade that dosent chip easily

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Dosent matter, 

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Lighter knife, well balanced

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

All of the above

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

Realistically, Idk. I like to keep my knife sharp. If I have to sharpen it a time or two a day, that's okay

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Synthetic

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 22, 2015)

Thanks for the info


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 22, 2015)

Yes to the cutting board question. Sorry


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## CompE (Apr 23, 2015)

:threadjacked:

You threadjacked your own thread. You'll get more responses if you start a new thread asking for knife advice.


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## jdsmith561 (Apr 23, 2015)

Okay. Thanks for the advice. New to this. And lol, the clipart


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## maiko (Apr 24, 2015)

chefcomesback said:


> I have quoted tojiro and hattori , did I mention shun ?? Thanks for the links , I have sharpened , used , thinned , reprofiled and ground enough knives to have an idea about my statements





Geo87 said:


> I just disagree with the overgeneralised statement that all vg-10 is chippy. It just isn't.



:surrendar:


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