# My BNIB Narra honyaki gyuto wedges badly



## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

[Mod edit]: made at a request of the OP - the following is a copy & paste of the post *#92* in this thread:

So yesterday I got a response from him and I realise I was wrong. I didn’t contact him first before creating this thread, giving him no chance of making it right. There are a lot other knives that he made that didn’t have a problem. Simply generalising my experience to the whole of his brand is not right. The reality is I bought it second hand and he his full right to question its authenticity. As his previous customers pointed out, he is a stand up guy - this is true. He told me how sad he was that I was this harsh to him and that had contacted him first, he would have made me a new one without a problem. Nevertheless, he is going to make me a new one and I’ll definitely be posting pictures when I receive it. I’d like to express my appreciation and apology to Narra. I do not want to ruin his reputation and cause any real damage to his livelihood.

[end of Mod edit]

So I bought this knife from a WTS forum. This is a frickin wedger. I might as well use a Kiwi knife instead. Please, for your own sake, DO NOT buy a Narra knife, ever.
https://imgur.com/gallery/gTIglUP
Anyone here that have different experiences, I would glad to hear.


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## madelinez (Nov 25, 2019)

It doesn't look that thick behind the edge in the choil shot. That's a suspiciously perfect Hamon though... bit weird.


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## RDalman (Nov 25, 2019)

madelinez said:


> It doesn't look that thick behind the edge in the choil shot. That's a suspiciously perfect Hamon though... bit weird.


Lack of backlight, look closer and you can kindof see it. Looking on the blades from the sides you can see reflections showing thick edges pretty well also. Sorry to see.. Also, the handle and saya :/


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## Kozuka (Nov 25, 2019)

This would probably be decent if thinned a good chunk


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## Matus (Nov 25, 2019)

Is the cutting edge thick, or does the potato stick to the flat-ish and super polisher bevel? The video seem to be without sound, so it is hard to tell. The choil shot from the WTS tread would not suggest a super thick edge (at least not at the heel)

I understand you bought the knife second hand, but BNIB, does the cutting edge reflect that?


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

Kozuka said:


> This would probably be decent if thinned a good chunk


Yeah, planning on thinning it either by myself or send it to thin. What would generally be the price for thinning?


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## ynot1985 (Nov 25, 2019)

send it to Jon at JKI. If it's a honyaki, it may be a pain to thin by hand


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

Matus said:


> Is the cutting edge thick, or does the potato stick to the flat-ish and super polisher bevel? The video seem to be without sound, so it is hard to tell. The choil shot from the WTS tread would not suggest a super thick edge (at least not at the heel)
> 
> I understand you bought the knife second hand, but BNIB, does the cutting edge reflect that?


Yeah, it's definitely BNIB. After the first cut, I thought it wasn't sharp, but it was just because it's thick behind the edge. Somehow only the very heel isn't thick, but other parts are thick.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

ynot1985 said:


> send it to Jon at JKI. If it's a honyaki, it may be a pain to thin by hand


I'm in Australia haha. Wish I could do that.


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## madelinez (Nov 25, 2019)

Honestly it would be cheaper to buy a new decent knife than get a good Australian craftsman to thin a monosteel knife.


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## ian (Nov 25, 2019)

ynot1985 said:


> send it to Jon at JKI. If it's a honyaki, it may be a pain to thin by hand



Also, JKI’s sharpening services are still on hold, fyi.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

madelinez said:


> Honestly it would be cheaper to buy a new decent knife than get a good Australian craftsman to thin a monosteel knife.


I already have several gyutos that I'm currently using. This is just to add to the collection (not as big as most people on this forum tho). I guess I'm gonna take the challenge of thinning it myself. Any rough stones recommended (not too expensive plz)? I'm currently waiting for a Watanabe from F-Flash, which is guaranteed to be good to heal my wound from this purchase.


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## lemeneid (Nov 25, 2019)

Briochy said:


> I'm in Australia haha. Wish I could do that.


If you’re in Australia, there’s loads of great sharpeners there


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> If you’re in Australia, there’s loads of great sharpeners there


Any in Sydney that would do it? Also roughly how much should I expect to pay? I'm weighing this against thinning it myself cuz I'm on a summer holiday so I have so much free time .


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## Matus (Nov 25, 2019)

It might be worth trying to contact the maker and see how he reacts.


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## lemeneid (Nov 25, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Any in Sydney that would do it? Also roughly how much should I expect to pay? I'm weighing this against thinning it myself cuz I'm on a summer holiday so I have so much free time .


If you're in Sydney, it wouldn't hurt to contact James and ask him to hook you up with a good sharpener. Or even a visit to KnS for sharpening supplies at the very least if you're going to do it on your own.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

Matus said:


> It might be worth trying to contact the maker and see how he reacts.


The maker of this knife? It's made in Indonesia.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> If you're in Sydney, it wouldn't hurt to contact James and ask him to hook you up with a good sharpener. Or even a visit to KnS for sharpening supplies at the very least if you're going to do it on your own.


That's a good idea, since he knows people, thanks.


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## Matus (Nov 25, 2019)

Briochy said:


> The maker of this knife? It's made in Indonesia.


So what? You can simply send him a message via IG and see what he thinks about the knife.


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## Eloh (Nov 25, 2019)

I know of a few knives of him that are pretty thin behind the edge, so i dont know if its fair to generalize, also since its not bought from him directly. Maybe he sells different type of grinds or whatever.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Brxe9mUhYu2/?utm_source=ig_embed


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## HSC /// Knives (Nov 25, 2019)

Why is there seemingly a general tendency to not go back to the original maker for a remedy?
I see this regularly and often. Why not give the maker a chance to make it right or offer a solution?
Usually the solutions suggested are anything other than - contact the maker...
I'm not trying to be belligerent here, I just want to get an understanding as to why this thought process


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## ian (Nov 25, 2019)

HSC /// Knives said:


> Why is there seemingly a general tendency to not go back to the original maker for a remedy?
> I see this regularly and often. Why not give the maker a chance to make it right or offer a solution?
> Usually the solutions suggested are anything other than - contact the maker...
> I'm not trying to be belligerent here, I just want to get an understanding as to why this thought process



I guess that wouldn’t be my first inclination if I bought something second hand. By the time it has reached me, the maker isn’t responsible anymore. Then again, I assume they do want to maintain a good reputation, so maybe it’s in their interest to work with you to fix things, at least for a fee? I’ll take your word for it, though, as a maker yourself. Interesting to hear your take.


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## HSC /// Knives (Nov 25, 2019)

This is what I'm seeing, "not being the first inclination"
Maybe it's the maker's responsibility and maybe it isn't, why not let him tell you? he knows exactly what kind of knife he made. Let him tell you if he will do it at no charge or what the charge is.
I never charge for sharpening or repairs because I want the good will.

The OP is posting "warning"... I really don't know if that's fair.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

HSC /// Knives said:


> Why is there seemingly a general tendency to not go back to the original maker for a remedy?
> I see this regularly and often. Why not give the maker a chance to make it right or offer a solution?
> Usually the solutions suggested are anything other than - contact the maker...
> I'm not trying to be belligerent here, I just want to get an understanding as to why this thought process


I would've if he was in Australia cuz I'd rather not post my knife to Indonesia.


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## DisconnectedAG (Nov 25, 2019)

Not commenting on the Narra, but rather on the discussion regarding makers. I agree that it's always worth reaching out to the maker. I bought a knife off a relatively new maker that I saw on IG. The ff&f was great, but it was very thick. Thought I'd thin it myself, but instead ended up not using the knife for a while. Contacted the maker on IG, he had no problems thinning it. Posted it (to a different country). I don't think it has to be that hard or that difficult tbh.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

@HSC /// Knives @DisconnectedAG Good point! I'll try to get in contact with Narra.


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## panda (Nov 25, 2019)

what lead you to buy that in first place? i saw it on BST and thought it looked like a turd..


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

panda said:


> what lead you to buy that in first place? i saw it on BST and thought it looked like a turd..


How so? I thought it looked great. I actually was wowed by the look of it when I unboxed it. It would've been my fave if it performed well.


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## labor of love (Nov 25, 2019)

Sorry to hear about problems with your Honyaki man. We started a thread about affordable Honyakis not too long ago you should check out. 

Try contacting the maker to see if he will take care of the issue. I was in the same predicament you were in as I also bought a second hand bnib honyaki but from a vendor, after reaching out-that vendor didn’t care at all. I imagine makers will be more concerned.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Sorry to hear about problems with your Honyaki man. We started a thread about affordable Honyakis not too long ago you should check out.
> 
> Try contacting the maker to see if he will take care of the issue. I was in the same predicament you were in as I also bought a second hand bnib honyaki but from a vendor, after reaching out-that vendor didn’t care at all. I imagine makers will be more concerned.


Thanks, I saw that thread. There were some amazing recommedations on there. I'm waiting for F-Flash's Watanabe to come. I heard you were one of the previous owners. I hope this purchase will be more satisfactory.


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## labor of love (Nov 25, 2019)

Oh you bought that Watanabe? It’s the best wat ever. Congrats


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Oh you bought that Watanabe? It’s the best wat ever. Congrats


Yes hehe. Looking forward to murdering some onions.


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## panda (Nov 25, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Thanks, I saw that thread. There were some amazing recommedations on there. I'm waiting for F-Flash's Watanabe to come. I heard you were one of the previous owners. I hope this purchase will be more satisfactory.


that one used to be mine as well, AWESOME knife. it's a bulk prep monster.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

panda said:


> that one used to be mine as well, AWESOME knife. it's a bulk prep monster.


Good to hear, but lol can this be counted as a KKF legacy?


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## JBroida (Nov 25, 2019)

HSC /// Knives said:


> Why is there seemingly a general tendency to not go back to the original maker for a remedy?
> I see this regularly and often. Why not give the maker a chance to make it right or offer a solution?
> Usually the solutions suggested are anything other than - contact the maker...
> I'm not trying to be belligerent here, I just want to get an understanding as to why this thought process



Literally one of the first things I usually say to people... people like me can be a backup to that


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## labor of love (Nov 25, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Good to hear, but lol can this be counted as a KKF legacy?


It is a funny thing. Like the best knives that I sell, I do try and keep close to me in a circle of friends.


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## panda (Nov 25, 2019)

kkf legacy blade, haha i like that!!


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## Matus (Nov 25, 2019)

Mod post: Thread title edited not to give the wrong impression.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

Matus said:


> Mod post: Thread title edited not to give the wrong impression.


Thank you, next time I'll use more of my discretion before posting. This was really posted at the time I was angry.


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 25, 2019)

Any response from the maker?


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

He said he doesn't think he has made a knife thick behind the edge. After that he hasn't replied further yet.


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## labor of love (Nov 25, 2019)

I’m thinking the original title you gave this thread might’ve been the correct one.


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## panda (Nov 25, 2019)

tell him panda thinks that knife sucks


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 25, 2019)

The choil looks okay, but the grind further along the blade is awful. The photos clearly show the issue and your vid demonstrates what is evident in the affected portion of the blade road. That blade needs some serious remedial work. Has the seller (in Sweden) commented? He said it cuts paper towels? Does it?

I hope the maker steps up and fixes the grind for you.


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## cheflife15 (Nov 25, 2019)

Im always shocked when i see threads where the maker doesn't immediately kind of take care of it. 

As a sous chef, if the guest doesnt like something we fix it. Sometimes the guest is wrong, sometimes hes right, but regardles the reputation of the restaurant is usually more important. This thread alone is enough where i wouldnt purchase one now. Hopefully he takes care of it.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

Corradobrit1 said:


> The choil looks okay, but the grind further along the blade is awful. The photos clearly show the issue and your vid demonstrates what is evident further along. That blade needs some serious remedial work. Has the seller (in Sweden) commented? He said it cuts paper towels? Does it?
> 
> I hope the maker steps up and fixes the grind for you.


I didn't message the seller because I don't think he is at fault here.......


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## cheflife15 (Nov 25, 2019)

The maker should kind of stabd behind his work.


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## Itsjun (Nov 25, 2019)

I own a sakimaru by the same maker.
Not much problem except it does not have a deep or close to no Urasuki. My guess was because it's not a japanese maker thus the lack of details in the importance of Urasuki.
Not using it as much as my other knives, only use it as a trophy knife for food photography and stuffs for aesthetic purpose .
But yes it's sharp but not really well made.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

Itsjun said:


> I own a sakimaru by the same maker.
> Not much problem except it does not have a deep or close to no Urasuki. My guess was because it's not a japanese maker thus the lack of details in the importance of Urasuki.
> Not using it as much as my other knives, only use it as a trophy knife for food photography and stuffs for aesthetic purpose .
> But yes it's sharp but not really well made.


Good to hear that it's usable, at least. Mine isn't, unfortunately


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## ynot1985 (Nov 25, 2019)

where do you live? did James give you any recommendations?

I live in AU too (Sydney). Problem are either shops are not skilled enough (they only sharpen the edge and have no idea about thinning) or craftsmen/custom makers refuse to touch anything that isn't made by them.


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

ynot1985 said:


> where do you live? did James give you any recommendations?
> 
> I live in AU too (Sydney). Problem are either shops are not skilled enough (they only sharpen the edge and have no idea about thinning) or craftsmen/custom makers refuse to touch anything that isn't made by them.


Haven't contact him, actually. I'll try.


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 25, 2019)

Try these too

https://www.saitoknives.com.au/sharpening-service/

https://www.chefsarmoury.com/pages/knife-sharpening-service


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## refcast (Nov 25, 2019)

I can see in the first and second pictures in imgur that there are reflections of light near the edge. this shows that the right behind the edge the knife is thick, due the sudden angle change that you can see in the reflected light. More common than I expected, i find knives are thinner at the heel with a nice looking choil than further along the blade. You can inspect blade this way, by seeing how they reflect light. If in person, then you can squeeze along the blade face near the edge to check thinness and grind.

The watanabe will be killer. . . i haven't heard of a watanabe new that was thick behind the edge (at least if they're not deba). . . i usually read about gyuto with zero grinds and chipping after the user goes on a cutting frenzy because they are super thin there. 

I see a lot of meat slicers by Narra on the instagram . . . meat slicers don't need to be as thin behind the edge (although its nice if they are).


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

Contacted Chef's Armoury and they told me they only take Japanese knives lol. I told them this is not made in Japan but it kind of is a Japanese style knife so they asked me to send pictures of the knife to them so they can determine whether they'll take it or not.


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## Kippington (Nov 25, 2019)

I'll offer to fix it if the handle is removable. I doubt it is...


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## Briochy (Nov 25, 2019)

refcast said:


> I can see in the first and second pictures in imgur that there are reflections of light near the edge. this shows that the right behind the edge the knife is thick, due the sudden angle change that you can see in the reflected light. More common than I expected, i find knives are thinner at the heel with a nice looking choil than further along the blade. You can inspect blade this way, by seeing how they reflect light. If in person, then you can squeeze along the blade face near the edge to check thinness and grind.
> 
> The watanabe will be killer. . . i haven't heard of a watanabe new that was thick behind the edge (at least if they're not deba). . . i usually read about gyuto with zero grinds and chipping after the user goes on a cutting frenzy because they are super thin there.
> 
> I see a lot of meat slicers by Narra on the instagram . . . meat slicers don't need to be as thin behind the edge (although its nice if they are).


Yeah, I teied the squeezing thing and honestly, it didn't feel THAT thick. But the fact that it's a honyaki and that the heat treat is rather high makes it a potentially a PITA to thin. I tried sharpening it myself yesterday and it feels super glassy. I reckon it's even harder to sharpen than my Kurosaki R2 so, wish me luck.


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## Briochy (Nov 26, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Contacted Chef's Armoury and they told me they only take Japanese knives lol. I told them this is not made in Japan but it kind of is a Japanese style knife so they asked me to send pictures of the knife to them so they can determine whether they'll take it or not.


Update: they said they can't do it.


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## cheflife15 (Nov 26, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Update: they said they can't do it.


You're alot more patient then I am. I'd be contacting narra until he responds .


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## labor of love (Nov 26, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Update: they said they can't do it.


@Briochy send @Kippington a message about it. 
Also, get on his wait list while you’re at it


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## Briochy (Nov 26, 2019)

I've been lurking on Kip's instagram too. Silly me, should've bought his blades instead


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 26, 2019)

Kippington said:


> I'll offer to fix it if the handle is removable. I doubt it is...


Briochy isn't too enamored with the handle either, so if its a casualty I don't think he'll be too upset.


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## Briochy (Nov 26, 2019)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Briochy isn't too enamored with the handle either, so if its a casualty I don't think he'll be too upset.


That's true, but also not looking to pay for a new handle either.


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 26, 2019)

Whatever happens there's going to be some expense. Prob not cheap shipping knife to and from Indonesia. You can get a nice Wa handle for US$50-75. Or ask Narra to send another if it can't be removed without damage and let Jules work his magic.


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## labor of love (Nov 26, 2019)

I’ll send you one if you cover shipping.


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## Kippington (Nov 26, 2019)

labor of love said:


> I’ll send you one if you cover shipping.


Ya gotta love this forum!


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## refcast (Nov 26, 2019)

for the squeezing thing, the easiest initial thing to feel is the blade face angle, whether it's flat or angled or convex. actual thickness is kinda subtle to feel, which is why i said squeezing. i squeeze it and kind wiggle and tighten my squeezing fingers to feel the distance between them. i do this with various parts of the blade and compare.

i think the number one performance factor for a knife (at a particular point along the blade) is the minimum apex that you can sharpen it at without scuffing the sides. . . which tells you how thin it is behind the edge. you don't need to measure it . . . just compare it visually or how ever you want to a knife that cuts well. (not saying that you should sharpen at the minimum apex for laser thin knives for some shibata or kurosaki stuff). at least for veggies and especially really turgid ones like soaked potatoes. for bones and some meat . . . its different

honyaki and r2 . . . yeah, stuff that's more difficult to sharpen. . . (unless you somehow have jki diamond stones, especially the coarse vitrified diamond one . . . i got to try it and it ate up wide bevel white steel mizu honyaki like it was soft iron)


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## Briochy (Nov 26, 2019)

Kippington said:


> Ya gotta love this forum!


Yeah, people are so niceee, I love it. I think the first course of action for me is to try it myself haha. How long would it generally take? 3 hours? Providing that the steel is glassy and rather hard.


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## labor of love (Nov 26, 2019)

Thinning as an act of routine maintenance for a well performing blade is one thing but it looks like you need a decent amount of steel removal to make your knife perform the way you want it too. 
Practice thinning as a form of maintaining on another knife first if you don’t already have experience.


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## refcast (Nov 26, 2019)

depends on what stone you have . . . say it was a shapton 1k . . . i would sharpen maybe 10 minutes and then test it on food and repeat. you could look at visually and feel to see when it looks 'done', based on your cutting tests and seeing how the grind looks like for the performance you currently have. you can clean up the sruffed up sides with a finer stone or sandpaper, which cuts fine lines and then eventually burnishes, or a rust eraser. although obviously coarser stones are faster


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## Briochy (Nov 26, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Thinning as an act of routine maintenance for a well performing blade is one thing but it looks like you need a decent amount of steel removal to make your knife perform the way you want it too.
> Practice thinning as a form of maintaining on another knife first if you don’t already have experience.


Good point! I have one in need of thinning. I'll probably try that one out first.


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## ynot1985 (Nov 26, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Update: they said they can't do it.



Do not .. I mean do not ever send them
a knife to fix.. they have no idea what they are doing


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## Briochy (Nov 26, 2019)

ynot1985 said:


> Do not .. I mean do not ever send them
> a knife to fix.. they have no idea what they are doing


Oh haha, have you ever sent them your knife before? What made you think that?


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## ynot1985 (Nov 26, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Oh haha, have you ever sent them your knife before? What made you think that?



Horror story!!

Sent them a brand new expensive knife to fix a tip (1-2mm max)

My fault for being too lazy.

I should have known this was going to be bad when I presented the knife and the store person had never heard of the brand and the boss had to tell him what it was.

Rather than fixing the tip from the spine down, they decided to grind it from the edge up ( it was a brand new unused edge).. it was a horror job as if someone was grinding on a wheel and slipped. End result was an uneven edge along the knife and scratches all over the knife face.

The best part was.. I send them an angry email afterwards going ***.. 

They guy at the store told me that I had sent them a damaged knife to start off with.

Luckily I had photos of the knife before I took it in and the boss saw the knife when I brought it in. To say that I took a damaged knife in was absolute bs.

I was furious with them but I let it go after someone offered to fix it up for me on naturals which they did an amazing job on for free and I could not thank him enough for it.

If this is how they fix japanese knives which they claim they are experts on, imagine what they can do to non japanese ones


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## Forty Ounce (Nov 26, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Yeah, people are so niceee, I love it. I think the first course of action for me is to try it myself haha. How long would it generally take? 3 hours? Providing that the steel is glassy and rather hard.


You're looking at a project that's going to take many hours. The thinning, alone, will take at least 4-5hrs without machines. Once that's done, the polishing begins.. that's another 4-5hrs per side. This is all assuming that you're experienced with this kind of stuff. If it's a first time thing? Just don't.


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## Matus (Nov 26, 2019)

Knife that wedges as badly as the video shows is more of an hardened blank than a knife. To fix that you want someone with power tools AND experience. As was already said - to do it on stones will take many hours. It is a great way to learn thinning blades (because you need to remove so much material, than even if you do some mistakes first few hours, you can correct them in later stage  ) though. I remember thinning the very first knife I made (O1 steel at 61HRC, 165mm long tall petty) - took me several hours on Atoma 140 to remove less then 0.5mm in thickness over about 1/3 of the blade surface.


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## chefcomesback (Nov 26, 2019)

The reason many custom makers aren’t willing to touch projects like this is there is almost as much as work “fixing “ a knife like this vs making a knife for themselves from scratch . The knife needs grinding work , handle needs to be removed /destroyed it needs refinishing and a handle . It’s hard to quote a realistic figure and also not many makers I know are interested in making someone else work better then actually what it is . I did it once and still regret it , 
My 2 cents 
Mert


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## panda (Nov 26, 2019)

Briochy said:


> I've been lurking on Kip's instagram too. Silly me, should've bought his blades instead


learning point, dont buy silly cktg special looking knives


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## Briochy (Nov 26, 2019)

panda said:


> learning point, dont buy silly cktg special looking knives


This knife is from WTS thread here.


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## Briochy (Nov 26, 2019)

ynot1985 said:


> Horror story!!
> 
> Sent them a brand new expensive knife to fix a tip (1-2mm max)
> 
> ...


Good to know and sorry for your experience.


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## lemeneid (Nov 26, 2019)

Problem is, this is a cheapass honyaki knife, but any work thinning and polishing a honyaki is going to be arduous and expensive. Honestly unless you’re going to do this on your own, you should just cut your losses on this one. Consider the cost of shipping, then thinning, sharpening and polishing it once more to restore the mirror, then shipping it back to you. Think through this carefully.


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## Briochy (Nov 26, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> Problem is, this is a cheapass honyaki knife, but any work thinning and polishing a honyaki is going to be arduous and expensive. Honestly unless you’re going to do this on your own, you should just cut your losses on this one. Consider the cost of shipping, then thinning, sharpening and polishing it once more to restore the mirror, then shipping it back to you. Think through this carefully.


Yeah, that's why I'm leaning towards going to KnS tmr and grab this one.
http://www.knivesandstones.com/naniwa-gouken-aramusha-220-grit-sharpening-stone/
Wondering if it's a good stone.


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## Nikabrik (Nov 26, 2019)

IMHO, you'd do better thinning on sandpaper (my preference is Rhynowet Plus silicon carbide). You can stick strips down to a flat surface with a few drops of water. I've been using 180 grit, though I'm going to try 120 next (120 might be too coarse). Change the sandpaper liberally - it only cuts efficiently for a little while, but the process goes surprisingly fast if you work on sharp paper. It'll still take a long time.

I've tried thinning on stones, but for big projects you have to be really cautious of dishing. A dished stone can then start to abrade your edge when you're trying to work further up the blade. In general, on a flat surface, the abrasive will cut where you apply pressure, but that's not necessarily true of dished stones. I would still finish on stones after the sandpaper.

Some people use diamond plates, but you can get 5 9x11 (or equivalent metric size) sheets of decent sandpaper for $6.


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## lemeneid (Nov 26, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Yeah, that's why I'm leaning towards going to KnS tmr and grab this one.
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/naniwa-gouken-aramusha-220-grit-sharpening-stone/
> Wondering if it's a good stone.





Briochy said:


> Yeah, people are so niceee, I love it. I think the first course of action for me is to try it myself haha. How long would it generally take? 3 hours? Providing that the steel is glassy and rather hard.


With a knife that thick, you could thin for 10 mins and already feel a great difference. Any stone will do at this level, but my preference would be harder stones that dish less.


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## Matus (Nov 26, 2019)

What @Nikabrik said makes a lot of sense.


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## Dendrobatez (Nov 26, 2019)

Thinning on sandpaper has always worked out better for me. I haven't found a low grit stone that doesn't dish too quickly and sandpaper is always as flat as its backing. I'm working on a similar situation with my TC blade. Once you get the hard work done on low grits its great to move on to 3m microfilm.


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## Jaszer13 (Nov 26, 2019)

I own 7 knives from Chef Narra (@knife_roll) all of them function flawlessly. He is a stand-up guy. 

He once even re-made me a completely new honyaki nakirri when the first one arrived damaged from shipping (Indonesia → USA).

To make a thread and bash a maker because of a knife's geometry that you didn't custom order is a bit harsh. He makes the knives according to the requested preference (excluding his auction items).

Please try contacting him directly, he may have some background on the knife. If not, PM me and I am sure we can work something out.


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## labor of love (Nov 26, 2019)

Briochy said:


> He said he doesn't think he has made a knife thick behind the edge. After that he hasn't replied further yet.


@Jaszer13
He did contact the maker.

Check out the screenshots on page 2 for the exchange of words.


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 26, 2019)

Jaszer13 said:


> I own 7 knives from Chef Narra (@knife_roll) all of them function flawlessly. He is a stand-up guy.
> 
> He once even re-made me a completely new honyaki nakirri when the first one arrived damaged from shipping (Indonesia → USA).
> 
> ...


Contact has been made. Narra agrees there is an issue. Lets see how he responds and how much of a 'stand-up guy' he really is when confronted with this evidence. 
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...i-gyuto-wedges-badly.44322/page-2#post-653981


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## Forty Ounce (Nov 26, 2019)

Briochy said:


> Yeah, that's why I'm leaning towards going to KnS tmr and grab this one.
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/naniwa-gouken-aramusha-220-grit-sharpening-stone/
> Wondering if it's a good stone.


If you go this route, make sure you get something good for flattening. Also, you will need to be able to "read" the highs and lows and plan accordingly. Sandpaper is a much safer option.


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## Jaszer13 (Nov 26, 2019)

labor of love said:


> @Jaszer13
> He did contact the maker.
> 
> Check out the screenshots on page 2 for the exchange of words.


Ahh skipped page 2. My word stands if you can't fix anything with the maker, I will make things right.


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## M1k3 (Nov 26, 2019)

Shapton Pro 120 + Suehiro Tairagain + lots of elbow grease = thinned Narra. Or belt sander...


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## Briochy (Nov 27, 2019)

So yesterday I got a response from him and I realise I was wrong. I didn’t contact him first before creating this thread, giving him no chance of making it right. There are a lot other knives that he made that didn’t have a problem. Simply generalising my experience to the whole of his brand is not right. The reality is I bought it second hand and he his full right to question its authenticity. As his previous customers pointed out, he is a stand up guy - this is true. He told me how sad he was that I was this harsh to him and that had contacted him first, he would have made me a new one without a problem. Nevertheless, he is going to make me a new one and I’ll definitely be posting pictures when I receive it. I’d like to express my appreciation and apology to Narra. I do not want to ruin his reputation and cause any real damage to his livelihood.


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## HSC /// Knives (Nov 27, 2019)

Briochy said:


> So yesterday I got a response from him and I realise I was wrong. I didn’t contact him first before creating this thread, giving him no chance of making it right. There are a lot other knives that he made that didn’t have a problem. Simply generalising my experience to the whole of his brand is not right. The reality is I bought it second hand and he his full right to question its authenticity. As his previous customers pointed out, he is a stand up guy - this is true. He told me how sad he was that I was this harsh to him and that had contacted him first, he would have made me a new one without a problem. Nevertheless, he is going to make me a new one and I’ll definitely be posting pictures when I receive it. I’d like to express my appreciation and apology to Narra. I do not want to ruin his reputation and cause any real damage to his livelihood.



good on you to report this and handle the situation properly, well done


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## labor of love (Nov 27, 2019)

You shouldn’t beat yourself up over it. If it were me I’d also vent some publicly. It seems like it didn’t occur to you that contacting the maker was the thing to do until the forum suggested it. Glad everything went well.


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## Oui Chef (Nov 27, 2019)

in the meant time Briochy, it looks like you have a Narra to practice thinning on. There is an australian website called japanesetools, they sell big, thick, flat glass plates for 20aud and adhehsive backed sandpaper starting at 3aud. I had found a big 300mm+ japanese beater knife while I was over there working in kitchens and wanted to thin it. This seemed like the best/cheapest option, infinite flattening and thinning. https://www.japanesetools.com.au/collections/stone-flattening


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## Briochy (Nov 27, 2019)

Oui Chef said:


> in the meant time Briochy, it looks like you have a Narra to practice thinning on. There is an australian website called japanesetools, they sell big, thick, flat glass plates for 20aud and adhehsive backed sandpaper starting at 3aud. I had found a big 300mm+ japanese beater knife while I was over there working in kitchens and wanted to thin it. This seemed like the best/cheapest option, infinite flattening and thinning. https://www.japanesetools.com.au/collections/stone-flattening View attachment 65611


Oh, I already bought a stone off from KnS.
http://www.knivesandstones.com/naniwa-gouken-aramusha-220-grit-sharpening-stone/
Yesterday I thinned the knife to the point that I declare it 'usable', took me 2 hours. The tip needs a serious thinning to be able to horizontally cut an onion. Probably will take further 2 hours just to thin the tip area.


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## Dendrobatez (Nov 27, 2019)

Oui Chef said:


> in they sell big, thick, flat glass plates for 20aud and adhehsive backed sandpaper starting at 3aud.
> https://www.japanesetools.com.au/collections/stone-flattening View attachment 65611



Now that's cool, a lot less work than cutting the paper and using double sided tape.


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## madelinez (Nov 27, 2019)

You'd lose any potential convex grind using that method though right? Flat grinds generally have worse food release.


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## Briochy (Nov 27, 2019)

madelinez said:


> You'd lose any potential convex grind using that method though right? Flat grinds generally have worse food release.


But that's true with thinning of any kind right? Also, usable knife is better than unusable one for sure.


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## labor of love (Nov 27, 2019)

So he’s letting you keep the Honyaki and he’s making another one for you for free?


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## madelinez (Nov 27, 2019)

Briochy said:


> But that's true with thinning of any kind right? Also, usable knife is better than unusable one for sure.



I agree a thin behind the edge flat grind is definitely better. I always thought a small flat block (the size of an eraser longways) with sandpaper attached might help preserve some convexity. Not sure to be honest.


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 27, 2019)

labor of love said:


> So he’s letting you keep the Honyaki and he’s making another one for you for free?


Thats my read. Pretty strong CR result. Way to go Narra.....


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## Briochy (Nov 27, 2019)

labor of love said:


> So he’s letting you keep the Honyaki and he’s making another one for you for free?


Seems that way...


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## labor of love (Nov 28, 2019)

Well that’s cool. So are you getting an identical knife?


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## Briochy (Nov 28, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Well that’s cool. So are you getting an identical knife?


Idk haha probably. Happy to report tho that thinning is progressing well. It can't exactly do the cool flippin' onion horizontal cut, but not far from it. I'll probably thin it an hour more then go onto polishing. Wouldn't have believed in a million year that the first knife I'm thinning is a hard-ass honyaki.


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## Nikabrik (Nov 28, 2019)

Just because you're using a flat abrasive doesn't mean you're making a flat bevel. Precision machining guys have to be very careful in their lapping technique to make flat surfaces rather than convex. Fortunately for us the effect works in our favor.

What I like to do is apply pressure with my fingertips right at the edge (working in sections) to get it down to a nice thickness (say 0.2mm). To maximize retained convexity, you can lift gently on the spine with your support hand.
Then, if it wedges, I thin further up the blade, targeting ~1mm thickness 1cm behind the edge (this is subjective and depends on your goals). I do that by applying fingertip pressure at the relevant location.

Couple more notes about sandpaper for those that are interested:
A surface with some "give" will conform to a convex surface. I've mentioned this recently in another thread, but I like a layer of two of sandpaper for finishing up/blending.

Secondly, adhesive isn't necessary with sandpaper. I may not have been coat on this earlier. A slight dampness (water) will stick sandpaper to any smooth flat surface (glass, granite, a flat stone) remarkably well. This is sorta like how a glass will stick to a counter or table with condensation.


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## captaincaed (Nov 28, 2019)

Briochy said:


> So yesterday I got a response from him and I realise I was wrong. I didn’t contact him first before creating this thread, giving him no chance of making it right. There are a lot other knives that he made that didn’t have a problem. Simply generalising my experience to the whole of his brand is not right. The reality is I bought it second hand and he his full right to question its authenticity. As his previous customers pointed out, he is a stand up guy - this is true. He told me how sad he was that I was this harsh to him and that had contacted him first, he would have made me a new one without a problem. Nevertheless, he is going to make me a new one and I’ll definitely be posting pictures when I receive it. I’d like to express my appreciation and apology to Narra. I do not want to ruin his reputation and cause any real damage to his livelihood.


Can we add this as a sticky to the top of the thread?


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## DisconnectedAG (Nov 28, 2019)

Briochy said:


> So yesterday I got a response from him and I realise I was wrong. I didn’t contact him first before creating this thread, giving him no chance of making it right. There are a lot other knives that he made that didn’t have a problem. Simply generalising my experience to the whole of his brand is not right. The reality is I bought it second hand and he his full right to question its authenticity. As his previous customers pointed out, he is a stand up guy - this is true. He told me how sad he was that I was this harsh to him and that had contacted him first, he would have made me a new one without a problem. Nevertheless, he is going to make me a new one and I’ll definitely be posting pictures when I receive it. I’d like to express my appreciation and apology to Narra. I do not want to ruin his reputation and cause any real damage to his livelihood.


Good resolution. Would. You mind posting this as an edit to your original post? For forum users down the line, they may read your först post while doing research but not go 4 pages in to find how it ended, and it would seem fair to the maker.


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## Briochy (Nov 28, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> Good resolution. Would. You mind posting this as an edit to your original post? For forum users down the line, they may read your först post while doing research but not go 4 pages in to find how it ended, and it would seem fair to the maker.


I don't think the forum allows me to edit a post after 30min


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## Matus (Nov 28, 2019)

Let me take care of that ... and done.


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## daveb (Nov 28, 2019)

Uhmmmmmmm, I'm thinking of something the same but different.


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## panda (Nov 28, 2019)

Oui Chef said:


> in the meant time Briochy, *it looks like you have a Narra to practice thinning on*. There is an australian website called japanesetools, they sell big, thick, flat glass plates for 20aud and adhehsive backed sandpaper starting at 3aud. I had found a big 300mm+ japanese beater knife while I was over there working in kitchens and wanted to thin it. This seemed like the best/cheapest option, infinite flattening and thinning. https://www.japanesetools.com.au/collections/stone-flattening View attachment 65611


LOL!!


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## panda (Nov 28, 2019)

why didnt the original buyer contact maker??


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## Oui Chef (Nov 28, 2019)

Good to hear the thinning isnt isnt taking too long


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## daveb (Nov 28, 2019)

I've not liked this thread from the start, nothing about it is in keeping with the "gentlemen" nature of the forum.

I'm thinking a Reader's Digest version (you kids call it TL/DR or some such for reasons that elude me) would look like this.

OP buys a second hand knife that does not meet expectations. Opens a thread with hostile title, describes knife as "fricken wedger" accuses maker of everything but being a Methodist, "warns" any reader to never buy a knife from him.

On post 15 someone suggests he contact maker. Next couple pages are why that won't work. Contacting maker is constant theme (and rightly so) of suggestions.

Another maker suggests post may not be fair to maker.

Mods change title of thread to something less antagonistic.

OP admits he was "angry" when he initially posted, hence the inflammatory title. Still describing knife as "not usuable".

In post 62 Kipp offers to fix the blade if he can remove handle. OP does not want to pay for a new handle to have the $400 knife fixed and have all of this resolved.

Contact is made with maker. OP publicly posts initial private messages that were exchanged, further denigrating the maker.

In post 92, OP posts that maker has offered to make him a new knife. All is good in the world. The maker is a stand up guy, OP offers an apology.

In post 93, OP is planning to start thinning his new "free" knife.

If the OP ever "owned" his part of this mess, buying a 2nd hand knife, from an unknown maker, and a $400 honyaki at that, I missed it. A reasonable person would acknowledge they were taking a chance and missed.

If the OP had exercised even a modicum of hesitation before condemning the maker, and sought a reasonable solution instead, the mods would not be spending time trying to un-phuck this mess.

Will leave this up for a couple days, probably truncate the thread some (or a lot) and lock it down over the weekend.


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## Luftmensch (Nov 28, 2019)

For reference this is a summary of consumer guarantees under Australian law. The laws are reasonable. It is worth noting what they say:

_Rights to a repair, replacement, refund, cancellation or compensation do not apply to items:_

_..._
_bought as a one-off from a private seller, for example at a garage sale or fete (but you do have rights to full title, undisturbed possession and no unknown debts or extra charges)_

In other words, you bare all the risk in private transactions. The responsible way for you to ameliorate that risk is to do research and ask questions. After assessing the risks you should not spend more than you are willing to 'gamble' given the information you have assembled. You are purchasing sight unseen.


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## Kippington (Nov 28, 2019)

daveb said:


> OP buys a second hand knife that does not meet expectations...





Luftmensch said:


> ..._Rights to a repair, replacement, refund, cancellation or compensation do not apply to items bought as a one-off from a private seller.._.


I'm glad you guys can see it this way.

I've seen some of my knives going on the BST with a profile that looks nothing like what I originally sold. There's a noticeable problem with the way some people sharpen which I could highlight, but that might put a negative spotlight on certain users and could possibly decrease the value of some people's holdings. So far I've publicly kept quiet, only privately mentioning how to avoid the potential problem to the buyers of new knives. I'm really not sure if I should come out and say anything.


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## labor of love (Nov 28, 2019)

The knife was bought second hand brand new in box. I see no problem with commentary concerning ootb poor performance.


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## Kippington (Nov 28, 2019)

But still... being second hand it gets complicated when guarantees and warranties come up, whether it's BNIB or not.
Kudos to Narra for dealing with the problem regardless.

I dunno, maybe my post was related but a little off topic. It's something that's been on my mind, and this is a way I can talk about it without starting a new thread.


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## madelinez (Nov 28, 2019)

I don't think the maker should be responsible or have any obligation for the performance of a second hand knife, doubly so for custom knives. The original owner could have caused the problem through sharpening/thinning or specifically asked for it to be that way in their order. Right now I have a rather expensive knife that has some cosmetic damage from a friend that sharpened it, I'd never sell it to another person without paying the maker to restore it to brand new condition or without a very large warning stating it doesn't represent the maker's typical quality.


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## labor of love (Nov 28, 2019)

It’s a bnib knife.


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## ian (Nov 29, 2019)

Kippington said:


> I'm glad you guys can see it this way.
> 
> I've seen some of my knives going on the BST with a profile that looks nothing like what I originally sold. There's a noticeable problem with the way some people sharpen which I could highlight, but that might put a negative spotlight on certain users and could possibly decrease the value of some people's holdings. So far I've publicly kept quiet, only privately mentioning how to avoid the potential problem to the buyers of new knives. I'm really not sure if I should come out and say anything.



At the risk of a short off-topic, were you going to highlight something more complicated than "raise an even burr"? I don't think I've had any problem maintaining the original profiles on my knives, but curious what you'd say here. I imagine you could indicate some useful tips without saying anything specific about knives you've sold. I get your reticence, though, so no worries.


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## Kippington (Nov 29, 2019)

ian said:


> At the risk of a short off-topic, were you going to highlight something more complicated than "raise an even burr"? I don't think I've had any problem maintaining the original profiles on my knives, but curious what you'd say here.


The short version:

There's a (rightfully) high demand for knives that are thin behind the edge. The original post in this thread is a good example of that.

Thin cross-sections of steel are more flexible than thicker cross-sections. The tip of a tapered knife with a thin edge can be very flexible.
If you use the same sharpening pressure on rigid steel as you do on flexible steel, without proper technique the original profile will change over time.
The _really _experienced sharpeners amongst us will know this already. People like JKI's Jon who have dealt with sharpening through the span of a knife's entire lifetime, they know how to avoid the potential longer-term problems. Jon explains methods that avoid long-term issues in the "how to" videos, but because there's no indication given on what might happen if you don't follow it, the lesson is easily overlooked by the less experienced sharpeners.

For example, how many of you actually use this _exact _technique for sharpening tips, or have at least considered why the tip might need to be sharpened in a different manner from the rest?

I'm not saying you have to copy this exactly (I use a different technique), but there are reasons and subtleties to it that might not be so obvious to the less-experienced sharpener.

I've seen second-hand knives on the BST where these things have apparently not been taken into consideration.

Sorry for the off-topic post.


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## captaincaed (Nov 29, 2019)

I think this is a good topic to explore. I have a pair of practice knives that have certainly changed over the years. Teaches me a lot before I break out the drawer queens.


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## Kippington (Nov 29, 2019)

Yes, perhaps I should start a new thread on this topic and related things.
Ugh, I'm so lazy though!


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## Luftmensch (Nov 29, 2019)

labor of love said:


> The knife was bought second hand brand new in box. I see no problem with commentary concerning ootb poor performance.



There is 'law' and there is 'morality'... By law, as I understand it, BNIB doesnt matter. A vendor/manufacturer cant reasonably be held accountable for what happens to a product between between the initial point of sale and private resale. The label "BNIB" is subject to the honesty/morality of the private seller.

The only exception to this (again... as I understand it)... is product recalls. If a product is dangerous and has been recalled, the manufacturer is compelled by regulators to assume responsibility.

So poor old @Briochy doesnt have a legal leg to stand on here. It is good customer service for Narra to offer to replace the knife... but playing the devils advocate here - what if the person who commissioned the knife asked for a wedge monster? You can't point the finger at Narra....



Kippington said:


> But still... being second hand it gets complicated when guarantees and warranties come up, whether it's BNIB or not.



Yup... and the biggest irritation I have on BST is 'NOS'**. For-gods-sake... you drive a car off the lot and it is immediately second hand. There is no such thing as a NOS private sale.



madelinez said:


> I don't think the maker should be responsible or have any obligation for the performance of a second hand knife, doubly so for custom knives.



Agreed 100%... As has been noted... a lot can happen to a knife once it gets into the hands of a person who maintains it themselves... or as @ynot1985 points out... even some professional outfits. "BNIB" is only reliable as the seller's word...


This all said. If you buy a second hand knife and are unhappy with it, I *do* think it is reasonable to seek advice from the original smith (if you can) with the expectation that you will pay for any further costs if they are willing to help. Peoples time aint free!


** So sue me... I am a pedant!


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## labor of love (Nov 29, 2019)

By Narra’s own admission he doesn’t make knives with thick edges  so clearly something is not right here. 
Narra doesn’t “have to do” anything about it here I agree and never suggested otherwise.
By that same token if Narra makes knives that don’t perform well then yeah he’s just going to have to hear about it. That’s literally the point of the forum, open discussion. Last I checked no one was suggesting going to court over this or hiring lawyer’s rather it’s a litmus test in real time for what kind of service to expect from this maker.


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## Michi (Nov 29, 2019)

I have stayed out of this thread until now, but have been reading all the posts.

I don't want to pass judgement on anything that has been posted here by anyone. Rather, I'd like to offer a general observation.

Over the past five years or so, there has been a general trend to use social media as a lever. "If you do not give me a refund, I'll post this whole story on Facebook." Or "see how much this is going to cost you compared to giving me what I want if I tell this story on Instagram."

To me, this amounts to, in the worst case, blackmail. In the best case, it's leaning on a vendor who may have done little (or nothing) wrong to force my will on them.

Worse, people resort to posting on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, or whatever _without_ even bothering to get in touch with the vendor. I vividly recall an episode by Burrfection where he tried out a guided sharpening jig. He found that his knife didn't get sharp and posted the entire thing with an inflammatory title that amounted to (essentially) "this jig doesn't work." If you bothered to watch the video through to the bitter end, it turned out that he had made a mistake, didn't read the instructions properly, and basically did it wrong. Most people would not watch the rather long video, of course. But that didn't stop him from posting his video with its inflammatory title, regardless. I shudder to think how much damage he did to that business by posting a video with a title that was grossly misleading.

Moral of this story: the fair and ethical thing to do, _always_, is to contact the vendor first, explain the problem, and see whether the vendor offers an acceptable remedy. There may be many reasons (most of which the buyer has no idea of) for why things went wrong in the first place, _without_ the vendor being at fault. Only if the vendor isn't reasonable, and _only_ then, might it be (but not necessarily _is_) appropriate to post on a forum, or Facebook, or whatever.

In the above exchange, the one thing that amazes me most is that the vendor actually offered a replacement, _after_ everything that was said. I strongly suspect that he didn't do that because he is such a nice guy. More likely, he did it in a desperate attempt to mitigate the damage to his business that had already been done.

Sites like Facebook and Instagram remind me of the old Wild West: people taking the law into their own hands. And of lynch mobs.

I intensely dislike trial by social media. It is wrong, it panders to populism, and it is ethically reprehensible. Whether it be on this forum or anywhere else, 99% of the time, posting on social media will result in a miscarriage of justice.


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## daveb (Nov 29, 2019)

labor of love said:


> By that same token if Narra makes knives that don’t perform well then yeah he’s just going to have to hear about it. That’s literally the point of the forum, open discussion.



The knife is certainly fair game. It looks like a pig and should be described as such. But. To me the thread was not about the knife but about the maker - without giving the maker a chance to respond to the issue.


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## Briochy (Nov 29, 2019)

I don't know what to say about all thia mess other than I learned the lesson. Now, anybody can blame me for using the forum as a leverage of power and I accept that judgement cuz no matter what my intentions were, the result is that I will get a new copy of the knife. However, what I wanted was just to make a point that my Narra isn't usable. I wasn't aware that contacting the maker was a choice (or at least it didn't occur to me) so I vented it here, albeit with a way too exaggerated tone. I know that this is reprehensible and I definitely won't do this again.


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## cheflife15 (Nov 29, 2019)

He did contact the maker? Its a bnib knife. The maker didn't exactly offer to fix it immediately. Im curious if he's on, or read about it on the forum. At the end of the day he should've contacted the maker first, but to say the person before him commissioned a wedge monster doesn't really hold water.


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## panda (Nov 30, 2019)

this reminds me of lets everybody sh*t all over takeda thread


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## Michi (Nov 30, 2019)

Maybe it's time to let things rest?

People have atoned for their sins, another knife is on its way, the sun will almost certainly rise again tomorrow. Move along, nothing to see here…


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## Kippington (Nov 30, 2019)




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## Briochy (Mar 4, 2020)

Well, just think people deserve to know an update on this purgatory... He has gone MIA, so the promise wasn't fulfil after all. At this point I'm letting go of it, but please people seriously be careful of this maker. I know some people have a good experience dealing with him, but mine was terrible.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Mar 4, 2020)

If I was a maker offering to replace a second hand BNIB knife. I would be expecting to get the problem knife back in the same BNIB condition. Any attempts by the owner to fix the problem knife would absolve me of any responsibility in my mind as it would no longer be representative of what came out of my shop.


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## labor of love (Mar 4, 2020)

Briochy said:


> Well, just think people deserve to know an update on this purgatory... He has gone MIA, so the promise wasn't fulfil after all. At this point I'm letting go of it, but please people seriously be careful of this maker. I know some people have a good experience dealing with him, but mine was terrible.


Yeah, I thought there was chance this might happen. Not surprised at all.


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## jacko9 (Mar 4, 2020)

I surprised that no one mentioned the BNIB from the re-seller?


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## milkbaby (Mar 4, 2020)

To be fair, OP didn't have any dealings with the maker other than complaining to the maker about a knife he bought second hand from another person... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you buy a second hand Corolla and complain to Toyota that it doesn't perform like a Ferrari, I wonder what response one should expect to receive.


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## labor of love (Mar 4, 2020)

To be fair-the maker said he would replace the knife. Which he didn’t. Unless there’s more to the story besides @Briochy screenshot, looks like he’s just avoiding him.


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## Briochy (Mar 4, 2020)

milkbaby said:


> To be fair, OP didn't have any dealings with the maker other than complaining to the maker about a knife he bought second hand from another person... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> If you buy a second hand Corolla and complain to Toyota that it doesn't perform like a Ferrari, I wonder what response one should expect to receive.


That discussion was had before and was ended. But to be clear, the knife was BNIB. It came with a pristine mirror finish, so it couldn't have been used heavily, if at all. So your metaphor is invalid. The seller promised he would replace it either way. However, now he is not replying to me at all.


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## jacko9 (Mar 4, 2020)

Briochy said:


> That discussion was had before and was ended. But to be clear, the knife was BNIB. It came with a pristine mirror finish, so it couldn't have been used heavily, if at all. So your metaphor is invalid. The seller promised he would replace it either way. However, now he is not replying to me at all.



This is the last I'll comment on this topic but, the seller to you was the original owner that bought it from the maker and you don't know what that seller did with the knife as far as I can tell. Being brightly polished "could mean" that he buffed it out after "who knows what"? You keep mentioning the original maker as the seller to you - that's my issue. Again, that's all I have to say about this topic and for me it's closed. Good luck with your knife, I do hope you get satisfaction. Sorry about sounding negative.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 4, 2020)

I don’t see why the maker owns op a new knife to begin with. Looks & claims BNIB from second hand does not mean it’s actually BNIB. 

One can not rule out a distinct possibility that the knife is heavily used, sharpened enough times until thick behind edge, then polished up & sold as BNIB, or another distinct possibility the knife could be a fake knockoff. 

If the maker felt being forced into making a new knife for free, forced to yield under the pressure of social media blackmailing, & later decided not to give in after all, good for him! 

The victim here, IMHO, is the maker not the OP.


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## Barmoley (Mar 4, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> I don’t see why the maker owns op a new knife to begin with. Looks & claims BNIB from second hand does not mean it’s actually BNIB.
> 
> One can not rule out a distinct possibility that the knife is heavily used, sharpened enough times until thick behind edge, then polished up & sold as BNIB, or another distinct possibility the knife could be a fake knockoff.
> 
> ...


He owns him a new knife because he said he would make him a new knife. This argument was valid before the maker made the offer. This has already been discussed and regardless of anyone's opinion, once the maker made a promise, he should stick by it. Same would apply to the buyer if the buyer promised to buy the knife for example. If the maker felt pressured and gave in, tough but to me once a promise is made, just to disappear is pretty low.

As far as conspiracy theories again, this is not a maker anyone would fake at least not yet.


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## daveb (Mar 4, 2020)

The maker committed to making a knife. But he didn't commit to making it next.

Too much drama here.


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## panda (Mar 4, 2020)

Kippington said:


> I'm glad you guys can see it this way.
> 
> I've seen some of my knives going on the BST with a profile that looks nothing like what I originally sold. There's a noticeable problem with the way some people sharpen which I could highlight, but that might put a negative spotlight on certain users and could possibly decrease the value of some people's holdings. So far I've publicly kept quiet, only privately mentioning how to avoid the potential problem to the buyers of new knives. I'm really not sure if I should come out and say anything.


no way, people who destroy knives should absolutely be called out.

for example i modify pretty much every knife i buy. if a maker were to mention that what my knife looks now is totally different from what they originally sold, i would have zero issues with that!!


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## Kippington (Mar 5, 2020)

The knives are hardly destroyed, just subtly different.
And anyway the topic is part of a larger, more complicated train of thought. The last thing I want to do is start a sh!t throwing contest.
I like this forum too much for that.


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## Barclid (Mar 5, 2020)

Kippington said:


> The knives are hardly destroyed, just subtly different.
> And anyway the topic is part of a larger, more complicated train of thought. The last thing I want to do is start a sh!t throwing contest.
> I like this forum too much for that.



I think I can sum up the heart of this imaginary thread with "people suck at sharpening".


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## Dhoff (Mar 5, 2020)

Briochy said:


> Well, just think people deserve to know an update on this purgatory... He has gone MIA, so the promise wasn't fulfil after all. At this point I'm letting go of it, but please people seriously be careful of this maker. I know some people have a good experience dealing with him, but mine was terrible.


Thank you for the update. Wonder what the original owner thought of the knife, whether he/she cut with it at all.

Personally I'd still hesitate to call the Maker out as bad business, he might have reasons for not answering such as health- or personal issues. Makers are human too (sorta, maybe a bit like someone from Marvel)


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## Eloh (Mar 5, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> I don’t see why the maker owns op a new knife to begin with. Looks & claims BNIB from second hand does not mean it’s actually BNIB.
> 
> One can not rule out a distinct possibility that the knife is heavily used, sharpened enough times until thick behind edge, then polished up & sold as BNIB, or another distinct possibility the knife could be a fake knockoff.
> 
> ...



Agreed, also the maker didn't post on Instagram since last year, wich seems to be his #1 business platform. I doubt he "disappeared" completely just to avoid the op wich he has no legal obligation to. Terrible thread all around.


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## Kippington (Mar 5, 2020)

Barclid said:


> I think I can sum up the heart of this imaginary thread with "people suck at sharpening".


Nah it goes deeper.

For example: If a maker a follows an _extremely_ _detailed_ custom order to *exact *specifications (even if it goes against what the maker prefers), how much of that knife is an accurate representation of the makers work vs the customers work. Then if the knife goes through a few people that change the profile/grind even more, what are you left with?

It all falls under the same umbrella. In short... it's complicated.


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## panda (Mar 5, 2020)

That guy just makes a turd knife.


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## milkbaby (Mar 5, 2020)

No posts on Instagram since December 2019, no Facebook posts since November 2019. Maybe an early coronavirus fatality?


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## Nagakin (Mar 5, 2020)

Kippington said:


> Nah it goes deeper.
> 
> For example: If a maker a follows an _extremely_ _detailed_ custom order to *exact *specifications (even if it goes against what the maker prefers), how much of that knife is an accurate representation of the makers work vs the customers work. Then if the knife goes through a few people that change the profile/grind even more, what are you left with?
> 
> It all falls under the same umbrella. In short... it's complicated.


Bill Burr has a great bit about similar, talking about Oprah. Her career started with her interviewing horny midgets. I'd call that a little more than compromising her artistic integrity. But she calls the shots now. Your reputation already precedes you, man. You'll end up making only what you want to make and those details will become inconsequential when everyone knows your work.


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## Matus (Mar 5, 2020)

Seems like this thread went a full circle and there is nothing left to discuss. Everyone is welcome to draw their own conclusions and lessons learned. I appreciate that we had a pretty decent discussion on a rather sensitive topic.


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