# All Clad vs De Buyer



## Mingooch

I am guessing this has been asked before, but I didn't see a thread in a quick scan. The wifey wants to buy me some new pans etc. The question is All Clad(stainless) or De Buyer(Mineral B). Please feel free to chime in if you have had experience with both. 
Thank you,


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## WildBoar

We have a mix of De Buyer, All-Clad ss and Sur La Table ss skillets. The All-Clad has the most issues with sticking, although technique/ procedure helps to minimize the sticking. Both the De Buyer and All-Clad seem to be on par as far as heating up and holding heat, although that may depend a bit on the flame patters on your burners if you have a gas range/ cooktop. The All-Clad is a bit easier to care for, obviously, which may be a good selling point depending on your/ your wife's cleaning-up habits; it is also a bit lighter. Our De Buyer experience is limited to skillets and a crepe pan, so I cannot compare other pot/ pan shapes (we have mostly old Calphalon aluminum, newer All-Clad ss and Le Creuset enameled cast iron pots). I would look into building a set of All-Clad and supplementing with some De Buyer and Le Cruiset/ Staub.


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## Mingooch

Wife is good at cleaning and caring for stuff in general. She is slowly learning knives, but she too cooks and loves to cook. So I am sure both of us will get good use out of her gift to me, LOL.


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## EdipisReks

I wouldn't get carbon pans as everyday pans, and I say that as somebody who owns, loves, and constantly uses, several carbon steel pans. The first time you try to make a vinegar based pan sauce and the seasoning flakes off into it, you'll understand why.  Regarding All-Clad, I would go with their MC2 line, unless you are cooking on induction. They are thicker, and perform just a little bit better. If MC2 is out of the question, I would get the All-Clad stainless. I use mine a lot, and their warranty has been no questions, in my experience (I just got an 11 inch French pan replaced, due to warping, and they made it easy).

I have a lot of pans. I have All-Clad stainless, All-Clad Master Chef (the old, original, 6mm stuff, with cast steel handles and mirrored interiors, which is freaking amazing), All-Clad MC2 (the current line), Viking, Sur La Table triply, Viking, De Buyer, Paderno, tons of bare cast iron, old and new, a bunch of 2 and 2.5mm tinned copper, Mauviel stainless lined, enameled cast iron, and the three pans I grab the most are a 12 inch Vollrath, a Viking Professional 3.5 qt saucier (which doesn't seem to be made anymore), and a DeBuyer 10 inch Mineral B. I love having a wide variety of pans, in many materials shapes and sizes, butif I had it all over again, and needed to keep thing homogenous, I'd buy Vollrath wear-ever trivent, as my main pans, and then get a carbon steel pan or two to go with it. The Vollrath's just rule, and are cheap. Mine is starting to go out of flat, but I use gas, so it doesn't matter much. I might go bang it back to flat out on the driveway, or something.


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## hardline_42

Except for specialty items (like pressure cookers,) I've phased out all of my clad cookwear in favor of carbon steel, cast iron (bare and enameled) and tin-lined copper. Stainless has the benefit of being dishwasher safe, standing up to aggressive utensils and looking shiny, but it's seriously lacking in the performance department. It's certainly unsurpassed for someone who needs or wants low-maintenance cookwear that does everything but excels at nothing. If your particular situation lends itself to caring for carbon steel, I highly recommend it. It's what I reach for most often and my de Buyer pans are even edging out my ancient cast iron skillets. If I were you, I'd buy the three sizes currently on sale at West Elm for about $75 for the set:
http://www.westelm.com/products/mrk-we-market-carbon-steel-de-buyer-frying-pan-8-d713/
They're from the Carbone Plus line which are identical to the Mineral B pans minus the beeswax coating and the silicon decoration in the handle. That should leave you plenty in your budget to pick up an All-Clad pot or two for cooking acidic foods if you really want to try one, but there are better options for All-Clad money (Mauviel and Falk copper, Le Creuset and Staub enameled cast iron, etc).


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## EdipisReks

damn, those De Buyers at West Elm are cheap! Are we sure they are the 2.5-3mm steel, and not the thinner stuff?


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## hardline_42

EdipisReks said:


> damn, those De Buyers at West Elm are cheap! Are we sure they are the 2.5-3mm steel, and not the thinner stuff?



Yes. I own them all, along with some of De Buyer's other, thinner lines. The weights listed for the West Elm (Carbone Plus) pans match exactly to the weights listed for the Mineral and Mineral B pans. The Carbone Plus line is a more utilitarian line marketed towards restaurants and culinary professionals, while the Mineral line has a lot of "green" marketing (higher recycled/recyclable content) and slicker packaging targeting home cooks, but the relevant specs are identical. If there's still doubt, I suppose I could take some measurements at the pan edges.


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## EdipisReks

Oh, I believe you. I already had a 12" Paderno, but I bought the 12" from WE. Not having to take the beeswax off is a plus, in my book. I just couldn't pass that up. If I didn't already have a 10" Mineral B and a 10" Paderno, I would have bought that, too. 

At these prices, Mingooch, buy the pans from West Elm, and then buy this for the times that carbon isn't appropriate.


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## rahimlee54

Do the larger pans sit flatter than the smaller carbon ones? I have a glass top range and it was just to much effort to hold the small carbon skillet down to get even heating. I only have the 8 inch model DB blue steel.


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## EdipisReks

rahimlee54 said:


> Do the larger pans sit flatter than the smaller carbon ones? I have a glass top range and it was just to much effort to hold the small carbon skillet down to get even heating. I only have the 8 inch model DB blue steel.



all of my carbon pans, by Paderno and De Buyer, are perfectly flat. I don't own any of the small pans, though.

the nordic ware 10 and 12 inch lids should fit these perfectly, FYI.


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## brianh

EdipisReks said:


> I wouldn't get carbon pans as everyday pans, and I say that as somebody who owns, loves, and constantly uses, several carbon steel pans. The first time you try to make a vinegar based pan sauce and the seasoning flakes off into it, you'll understand why.  Regarding All-Clad, I would go with their MC2 line, unless you are cooking on induction. They are thicker, and perform just a little bit better. If MC2 is out of the question, I would get the All-Clad stainless. I use mine a lot, and their warranty has been no questions, in my experience (I just got an 11 inch French pan replaced, due to warping, and they made it easy).
> 
> I have a lot of pans. I have All-Clad stainless, All-Clad Master Chef (the old, original, 6mm stuff, with cast steel handles and mirrored interiors, which is freaking amazing), All-Clad MC2 (the current line), Viking, Sur La Table triply, Viking, De Buyer, Paderno, tons of bare cast iron, old and new, a bunch of 2 and 2.5mm tinned copper, Mauviel stainless lined, enameled cast iron, and the three pans I grab the most are a 12 inch Vollrath, a Viking Professional 3.5 qt saucier (which doesn't seem to be made anymore), and a DeBuyer 10 inch Mineral B. I love having a wide variety of pans, in many materials shapes and sizes, butif I had it all over again, and needed to keep thing homogenous, I'd buy Vollrath wear-ever trivent, as my main pans, and then get a carbon steel pan or two to go with it. The Vollrath's just rule, and are cheap. Mine is starting to go out of flat, but I use gas, so it doesn't matter much. I might go bang it back to flat out on the driveway, or something.



The Vollrath trivent look interesting. Do you use the 8 gauge or 10 gauge?


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## brianh

Ohh, there's a sweet looking steel handled version that's 6 gauge, too.


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## bkultra

The main thing I don't like about All Clad is the handles. Not only are they uncomfortable but they seem to be poorly thought out. They are thinner near the pot/pan and tapper out. Handles IMO should be thicker near the pot/pan to have something to hold on to when you need to choke up on a heavy/full pan or pot. I have gotten rid of my All Clad and replaced them with Demeyere Atlantis/ProLine. These are far better IMO. They have a mix of full clad and disc bottoms, depending on the piece and it's purpose. If the Demeyere is out of your budget then I would look at Vollarth Tribute line (this is the tri-ply line that competes with All Clad)

Do yourself a favor and go to a SLT and handled the All Clad before buying them. They also carry Demeyere lines to compare them to.


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## rahimlee54

EdipisReks said:


> all of my carbon pans, by Paderno and De Buyer, are perfectly flat. I don't own any of the small pans, though.
> 
> the nordic ware 10 and 12 inch lids should fit these perfectly, FYI.



Sorry, what I meant to say was the handle lifts the opposite side up making the pan sit funny. Ill give the bigger ones a try at the store.


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## EdipisReks

rahimlee54 said:


> Sorry, what I meant to say was the handle lifts the opposite side up making the pan sit funny. Ill give the bigger ones a try at the store.




yeah, the bigger ones don't do that.


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## EdipisReks

brianh said:


> Ohh, there's a sweet looking steel handled version that's 6 gauge, too.




All the 12 inch are 8 gauge (and mine is 8 gauge, I've measured it), AFAIK, but it varies depending on the size of the pan. Vollrath makes a lot of stuff, and I've seen pans at my local restaurant suppliers that I've never been able to find on the website. I have the chrome plated handle variant. I prefer All-Clad handles, but the Vollrath handles are nice.


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## EdipisReks

bkultra said:


> The main thing I don't like about All Clad is the handles. Not only are they uncomfortable but they seem to be poorly thought out. They are thinner near the pot/pan and tapper out. Handles IMO should be thicker near the pot/pan to have something to hold on to when you need to choke up on a heavy/full pan or pot. I have gotten rid of my All Clad and replaced them with Demeyere Atlantis/ProLine. These are far better IMO. They have a mix of full clad and disc bottoms, depending on the piece and it's purpose. If the Demeyere is out of your budget then I would look at Vollarth Tribute line (this is the tri-ply line that competes with All Clad)
> 
> Do yourself a favor and go to a SLT and handled the All Clad before buying them. They also carry Demeyere lines to compare them to.



The handles are the very best part, in my opinion. They are polarizing, for sure. I only own All-Clad fry pans and small sauce pans, so I don't worry about choking up on them, and the handles make very very nimble flipping and sautéing, if grasped underhand. The Viking Professional is made by Demeyere, and has the same performance as Demeyere 7-layer. The performance is identical to All-Clad, in my opinion. I'd replace all of my non-carbon steel with 2.5mm+ tinned copper, if I could, but All-Clad is very good cookware. If it weren't, I wouldn't own and use as much as I do. I do wish they still mirror polished the interiors, though. The vintage thick Master Chef is better than almost anything made, and very similar to copper, in performance, and the vintage All-Clad Master Chef has far better fit and finish than current Mauviel (and mirrored interiors!). I wish they still made that stuff.


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## bkultra

EdipisReks said:


> I prefer All-Clad handles



And to think I use to look up to your opinions (jk). This just goes to show it's all subjective. This is why I also suggested that he go to a store and have both his wife and himself try all these out before buying anything.


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## EdipisReks

bkultra said:


> And to think I use to look up to your opinions (jk). This just goes to show it's all subjective. This is why I also suggested that he go to a store and have both his wife and himself try all these out before buying anything.



The All-Clad handles are definitely love/hate. There have been many, many flamewars on chow hound, over the issue. Going and handling the stuff is a great idea, for sure.


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## EdipisReks

rahimlee54 said:


> Sorry, what I meant to say was the handle lifts the opposite side up making the pan sit funny. Ill give the bigger ones a try at the store.



You can also try bending the handle up, which might help the center of gravity. I don't like the flat handle profile that Paderno puts on their 10 and 12" world cuisine pans, so I always bend them up. The larger De Buyer have handles that are at a good angle, but the smaller pans I've seen in stores seem to have pretty flat handles.


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## hardline_42

rahimlee54 said:


> Sorry, what I meant to say was the handle lifts the opposite side up making the pan sit funny. Ill give the bigger ones a try at the store.



This is a problem for some of the smaller pans in the thinner gauge lines (La Lyonnaise, Force Blue), but for the thicker lines, even the 8" pan is heavy enough to balance out the long handle. These pans are almost as heavy as cast iron.


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## Hbeernink

I have a range of pans but these days I'm only using two brands: old all-clad master chefs and the debuyer minerale-B are my favorites. All clad for saucing, deep frying, and anytime a pot is needed, and debuyer for proteins. The debuyer crepe pan is great too, and I use it quite a lot for various things. A well seasoned debuyer makes a great egg pan too. 

Occasionally I'll break out the VERY old tinned copper pans, but trying to minimize use on these

Bottom line is, what are you in need of most, and what will you use them for?


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## EdipisReks

aren't the old Master Chefs wonderful?


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## Sambal

hardline_42 said:


> This is a problem for some of the smaller pans in the thinner gauge lines (La Lyonnaise, Force Blue), but for the thicker lines, even the 8" pan is heavy enough to balance out the long handle. These pans are almost as heavy as cast iron.




Yes, but I wouldn't even think of getting my de Buyer pans from the fire to the tap without letting them cool somewhat first. I'm happy to err on the side of caution.


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## Hbeernink

EdipisReks said:


> aren't the old Master Chefs wonderful?



Yep they're great- have been getting some pressure to replace them with a newer version, but I'm not budging.


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## NO ChoP!

hardline_42 said:


> Except for specialty items (like pressure cookers,) I've phased out all of my clad cookwear in favor of carbon steel, cast iron (bare and enameled) and tin-lined copper. Stainless has the benefit of being dishwasher safe, standing up to aggressive utensils and looking shiny, but it's seriously lacking in the performance department. It's certainly unsurpassed for someone who needs or wants low-maintenance cookwear that does everything but excels at nothing. If your particular situation lends itself to caring for carbon steel, I highly recommend it. It's what I reach for most often and my de Buyer pans are even edging out my ancient cast iron skillets. If I were you, I'd buy the three sizes currently on sale at West Elm for about $75 for the set:
> http://www.westelm.com/products/mrk-we-market-carbon-steel-de-buyer-frying-pan-8-d713/
> They're from the Carbone Plus line which are identical to the Mineral B pans minus the beeswax coating and the silicon decoration in the handle. That should leave you plenty in your budget to pick up an All-Clad pot or two for cooking acidic foods if you really want to try one, but there are better options for All-Clad money (Mauviel and Falk copper, Le Creuset and Staub enameled cast iron, etc).



Awesome deal. Just purchased two 12". I have a high btu camp type stove I use in conjunction with my grill in the summer months, and these will be perfect.

Thanks for the heads up!


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## Mingooch

Thank you all for the input. I ended up getting the 10 & 12 in de buyer from west elm and the 11 and 13 in all clad. Can't wait to break them in. Still might have to try that Vollrath.


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## brianh

I just ordered a 12" debuyer, thanks for the tip! Not to derail the thread, but do you guys season with flaxseed oil first and in between uses?


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## mpukas

The cheapest place to get De Buyer pans I've found is Capital City Restaurant supply (wholesale pricing). I've not bought pans from them myself, and I've checked their models numbers against De Buyers and it seems they sell the heavier gauge pans. 
http://www.capitalcityrestaurantsup...399,L,Eurodib USA > Professional Cookware,MX1 

I have three sizes of De Buyer steel pans with cast iron handles, and these will got to the grave with me. The cast handles makes such a big difference, but unfortunately, De Buyer discontinued them a couple of years ago. I use mine for nearly everything, but as ER said above the seasoning can come off. I'm not fussy about maintaining a perfect seasoning. I steam and make sauces in my regularly, and give them a good scrubbing. The best trick I've found is to pre-heat the pan with a good bit of oil, and then pour and scrape out the hot oil and cook with fresh oil. Makes a HUGE difference in performance and sticking. 

I 2nd what ER said about not having steel pans for everyday use - unless your experienced with them. I hardly ever use my SS pans, but they all have their place.


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## mpukas

I'm also in the market to upgrade some of my pans (knife & stone budget is frozen) - primarily sauce pans in three sizes and a large saute pan. I'm looking at all options that I can find, and I'm so on the fence... The main ones I'm considering are Viking, Mauviel M'Cook SS - looking at both the SS handles and cast handles, and Cuisinart Multi-Clad Pro. Not a fan of All-Clad - don't like their handles, and their sauce pots have straight sides with no lip which makes pouring a disaster. 

I have a Viking 11" fry pan, and LOVE LOVE LOVE it! I've found I like their handles (next to cast iron handles), sizes and shapes, construction and quality the best. However Viking has discontinued their cookware and small appliances, and there's limited stock around at only a couple places. No idea what warranty is like now. But the prices are good right now... 

I just got in Mauviel M'Cook SS 3.6q sauce pan w/ SS handle, and I'm not as impressed with it as I had hoped. The handle is odd - it's light in weight and small in size over all. It's thicker towards the body of the pan, but has a weird taper towards the end. I think I'd prefer the cast iron handles. A big downer is the lids are super sloppy fitting - they over hang the edge of the pot a lot and have a recess that sits on the inside of the pot that has lot of slop. 

I've ordered a Cuisinart MultiClad Pro 4q sauce pot just to check out. Cheap made-in-China stuff, but it's full three layer, decent looking handles (I've seen two different handle versions in their literature, and I'm not sure which one I'm getting), pouring lip, "tight Fitting" lids, a really good range of types and sizes. I like they offer steamer and double boiler inserts with a single handle, not a double loop handle. Can't stand double loop and helper handles (except stock pots). Worth taking a look at - especially for the price. I don't have high expectations but I may be pleasantly surprised. 

I also have a 12" ScanPan CTX - my good chef friend highly recommended these to me, and I find them kinda... Meh... the over quality is good, and the non-stick coating is one of the best there is. But I don't like the pan shape at all - the sides are low and vertical, and I don't like the handles - they are almost level to the top of the pan, and are shaped like an elongated football. While they are fairly comfy to grasp, when you pull a pan put of a hot over with a towel, the handle can twist in the towel and spill everything out onto the floor. Very precarious. 

Demeyere looks very nice, but not seeing the sizes/types/details that I'm looking for. 

DeBuyer Affinity also looks appealing, much better price point than other high-end brands. I don't like the shape of the fry pans/skillet as much as Viking. I'm primarily looking for sauce pans, but their largest offering at 3.5q is smaller than I really want which is 4-4.5q. They also don't offer a straight sided saute pan in a 5q range with a straight handle, only double loop handles.


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## hardline_42

brianh said:


> I just ordered a 12" debuyer, thanks for the tip! Not to derail the thread, but do you guys season with flaxseed oil first and in between uses?



I used coconut oil (because it was the most stable oil I had on hand) for the initial seasoning. I've used the de Buyer method of heating up a centimeter of oil on the stove until it smokes, but I prefer to season it like a wok. I heat up the thoroughly-washed pan on high heat, let it start to discolor a bit and then wipe it with with a paper towel dipped in oil, removing any excess and leaving only a thin coating. After the pan cools, you can repeat the process as many times as you want but I only do it once or twice and then just start using the pan as often as possible.


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## Asteger

hardline_42 said:


> ...If I were you, I'd buy the three sizes currently on sale at West Elm for about $75 for the set:
> http://www.westelm.com/products/mrk-we-market-carbon-steel-de-buyer-frying-pan-8-d713/



Well spotted! Thanks for pointing this out. I've gone and ordered a 10". Just $25 with free shipping in the US.


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## Hbeernink

hardline_42 said:


> I used coconut oil (because it was the most stable oil I had on hand) for the initial seasoning. I've used the de Buyer method of heating up a centimeter of oil on the stove until it smokes, but I prefer to season it like a wok. I heat up the thoroughly-washed pan on high heat, let it start to discolor a bit and then wipe it with with a paper towel dipped in oil, removing any excess and leaving only a thin coating. After the pan cools, you can repeat the process as many times as you want but I only do it once or twice and then just start using the pan as often as possible.




That's how I season as well- don't like the debuyer method at all. I usually go several coats at high temp, smoking it all off, then cool. Then more coats, and ready to go after that. I've heard recommendations to use the highest smoke point oil you can get. Other folks insist lard is best. I just use canola or corn oil, they work just fine.


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## EdipisReks

Mingooch said:


> Thank you all for the input. I ended up getting the 10 & 12 in de buyer from west elm and the 11 and 13 in all clad. Can't wait to break them in. Still might have to try that Vollrath.



I think you're going to be very pleased with the combo.


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## rahimlee54

I'll try the 12 inch De buyer and see how it goes.


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## hardline_42

mpukas said:


> The best trick I've found is to pre-heat the pan with a good bit of oil, and then pour and scrape out the hot oil and cook with fresh oil. Makes a HUGE difference in performance and sticking.



I do this also and I agree that it makes a huge difference. I preheat the pan and, before adding the cooking fat, I wipe it with a little seasoning oil and clean it out with a paper towel. Then I go ahead and cook as normal. Makes it much more nonstick and improves the seasoning.


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## hardline_42

For all of you jumping on the West Elm deal, you should know they take off an additional 10% from your order if you sign up for their emails. I didn't realize it until after I ordered so I contacted someone on their live chat and they applied it after the fact. Just a little something extra on an already sweet deal.


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## brianh

Are the debuyers really only oven safe to 400 degrees for 10 minutes as said on west elms site? I've been googling and many seem to go well beyond this for finishing steaks or initial seasoning.


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## EdipisReks

brianh said:


> Are the debuyers really only oven safe to 400 degrees for 10 minutes as said on west elms site? I've been googling and many seem to go well beyond this for finishing steaks or initial seasoning.



The handles might have a coating, which will burn off at higher temps. Burning the coating off is a good thing, in my opinion, as these pans are tops for very high heat.


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## EdipisReks

Here is the seasoning method I use: First, clean it out with hot water and Barkeeper's Friend. Dry completely. Heat it over a medium flame, with coarse salt in the bottom of the pan. When the salt turns brown, swish it around the entire pan. The steel should start darkening all over. This is to remove all moisture from the steel. Let it cool, and wipe the salt out. Reheat the pan over medium. Use a paper towel to wipe a layer of Crisco over the entire pan, inside and out (not the handle). Put it in a 400 degree oven for an hour. Take it out, wipe another layer of Crisco on the inside only. The Crisco should brown in the pan. It will be splotchy at first. Do this over and over, on the inside only, until you get an even brown layer on the pan. Let the pan cool, wipe the inside and out with a layer of vegetable oil, and it should be ready to go. It will eventually turn black, if you keep doing layers, which is a good thing. Once it turns black, it is more durable than the brown layer, but it takes all day to get it black, so I wouldn't worry about it, unless you have the time. Just use it after you have a good polymerized layer. For a while, the seasoning might be sticky, so put a thin coat of vegetable oil on it after use, until it no longer needs it (you'll know when). 

Here are the results, on a Paderno 12" (ignore the scratches, those were accidental damage caused by storage, not use). 



 click to embiggen

This seasoning is very durable, except when a sharp object is accidentally jabbed into it repeatedly by your wife, and very non-stick. It's been at least a year since I consciously did anything to the seasoning, with just regular cleaning with a soft sponge and dish soap. I don't do anything special when cooking, I just use it, and my other carbon steel pans which look the same, as any other pan.


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## EdipisReks

Also excuse the food spatter, I haven't cleaned up from tonight's dinner yet!


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## EdipisReks

I really do wish I could get cast iron handles, like on all my copper pots and pans, on carbon steel. That would be wonderful. They pop up on ebay, but not at prices I'm willing to pay.


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## brianh

Great tips, thank you!


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## hardline_42

brianh said:


> Are the debuyers really only oven safe to 400 degrees for 10 minutes as said on west elms site? I've been googling and many seem to go well beyond this for finishing steaks or initial seasoning.



No, they should be fine. Just a few hours ago I seared some pork chops on high heat in the 12" West Elm pan and finished them in a 450* oven. The handle didn't show so much as a hint of discoloration. I've also oven seasoned other de Buyer pans (not my favorite method for CS) at 500* for hours and had no issues. It might be an issue for the mineral line of pans that have the colored insert in the handle though.


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## EdipisReks

The Mineral B pans, in my experience, have a coating on them similar to the Mauviel stainless lined copper handle coating. It burns.


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## Talim

I actually like the silicone coating on the mineralB handles. You'll never have to oil it or season it and keeps your hands cleaner. I did put one of my small mineralB in a 500F oven for over an hour and it did discolor the handle but it didn't completely burn off. Also you can try this seasoning technique instead of putting the whole thing in the oven. I get impatient when I get new "toys" so I don't actually get to too many layers and just start cooking after a few coatings.
[video=youtube;xoIO8YOpyN4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoIO8YOpyN4[/video]


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## Sambal

ER,

What does rock salt do for the seasoning?

And, what's the advantage of cast handles?

Thanks.


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## EdipisReks

Sambal said:


> ER,
> 
> What does rock salt do for the seasoning?
> 
> And, what's the advantage of cast handles?
> 
> Thanks.


As stated, coarse salt removes moisture. Seasoning a wet pan is a bad idea.

The cast handles are better shaped and don't get as hot.


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## JCHine

Had good experiences with the high temp DeBuyer's that has an enamelled handle. The favourite sauté pan is a Sitram professional line that is remarkably non stick (for SS) even after 12+ years. Got a crazy heavy copper base that is fully encapsulated. 

My experience with Padermo was so soafter 2 years of regular use the aluminium disk had started to erode as a result of being run through the dishwasher.

Got some Mauviel SS lined copper and have never seen a coating burn off even on my 15K BTU burner, but then again it is too big to fit in the oven.


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## hardline_42

Sambal said:


> And, what's the advantage of cast handles?
> 
> Thanks.



Aside from the increased comfort, the extra mass of the cast handle helps conduct heat very slowly, which keeps it cooler to the touch longer than carbon steel.






The best handle option is probably the stainless. Stainless is a notoriously poor heat conductor.


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## Bef

Talim said:


> I did put one of my small mineralB in a 500F oven for over an hour and it did discolor the handle but it didn't completely burn off.


When the handle is very hot (500F), beware of anything that could scratch the handle, as it will get through the silicon like a hot knife through butter.



Talim said:


> Also you can try this seasoning technique instead of putting the whole thing in the oven. I get impatient when I get new "toys" so I don't actually get to too many layers and just start cooking after a few coatings.


I've tried this technique on my Mineral B. The seasoning looked awesome, but went off when I cooked something in it for the first time. Don't know why...


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## mpukas

How real men season a wok

[video=youtube;UGXGJD2xTzQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGXGJD2xTzQ[/video] 

I've tried the ATK method using flax seed oil on my deBuyer CS pans when I got the first ones, but it just flaked off. I think I used too much oil. Here's the text f/ ATK: 

For years weve seasoned cast-iron cookware in the test kitchen by placing it over medium heat and wiping out the pan with coats of vegetable oil until its surface turns dark and shiny. When a pan starts to look patchy, we simply repeat the process. But when we heard about a new method that creates a slick surface so indestructible that touch-ups are almost never necessary, we were intrigued. Developed by blogger Sheryl Canter, the approach calls for treating the pan with multiple coats of flaxseed oil between hour-long stints in the oven.
We carried out Canters approach on new, unseasoned cast-iron skillets and compared them with pans treated with vegetable oiland the results amazed us. The flaxseed oil so effectively bonded to the skillets, forming a sheer, stick-resistant veneer, that even a run through our commercial dishwasher with a squirt of degreaser left them totally unscathed. But the vegetable oil-treated skillets showed rusty spots and patchiness when they emerged from the dishwasher, requiring reseasoning before use.
Why did the new treatment work so well? Flaxseed oil is the food-grade equivalent of linseed oil, used by artists to give their paintings a hard, polished finish, and it boasts six times the amount of omega-3 fatty acids as vegetable oil. Over prolonged exposure to high heat, these fatty acids combine to form a strong, solid matrix that polymerizes to the pans surface.
Although lengthy, seasoning with flaxseed oil is a mainly hands-off undertaking. We highly recommend the treatment:
*1.* Warm an unseasoned pan (either new or stripped of seasoning*) for 15 minutes in a 200-degree oven to open its pores.
*2.* Remove the pan from the oven. Place 1 tablespoon flaxseed oil in the pan and, using tongs, rub the oil into the surface with paper towels. With fresh paper towels, thoroughly wipe out the pan to remove excess oil.
*3.* Place the oiled pan upside down in a cold oven, then set the oven to its maximum baking temperature. Once the oven reaches its maximum temperature, heat the pan for one hour. Turn off the oven; cool the pan in the oven for at least two hours.
*4.* Repeat the process five more times, or until the pan develops a dark, semi-matte surface. 

I'd like to try it again, properly. Curious to see if it would hold up to making a sauce or steaming.


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## boomchakabowwow

mpukas said:


> I've tried the ATK method using flax seed oil on my deBuyer CS pans when I got the first ones, but it just flaked off. I think I used too much oil. Here's the text f/ ATK:
> 
> .



me too! i used too much oil and tried to lay on a thick layer at once. fail!! i started over, and wiped on a thin layer, put the pan upside down so it could drain. win!! it worked. super durable.

i did it all on my gas grill outside. worked nice. now i can do whatever with the pan..just this past weekend, i used them to poach eggs. and i wash them with hot water as well.


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## Richard78

What a coincidence, I just finished seasoning my De Buyer wok with the guidance of that same youtube video mpukas posted.
Worked great by the way. 





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## mpukas

^Richard - nice! Where'd you get that deBuyer wok? How is it - is it like a traditional Chinese wok w/ a heavy bottom and light sides?


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## Mucho Bocho

I've been using the 11" De Buyer Country Fry Pan as my wok. Used it all weekend actually. I do have gas and a high-output burner but a flat wok is still better suited to traditional stoves. its not just how many BTU's but where the flame is being applied to the pan.


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## Richard78

@ mpukas,
I have bought it from a webshop here in Holland. 
It is a Carbon Plus. Bottom and sides have the same thickness of 1,5 mm, the pan is 35 cm in diameter.
In the summer I use a wok burner like this one in the garden. Better not use that inside the house :biggrin:




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## Talim

mpukas said:


> ^Richard - nice! Where'd you get that deBuyer wok? How is it - is it like a traditional Chinese wok w/ a heavy bottom and light sides?



They have them on Amazon. Quite expensive for a wok though.


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## Sambal

Thanks for the info ER and Hardline.


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## Sambal

I've ruined the seasoned surface of one of my de Buyer pans recently. Unthinkingly I cooked a batch of sugo in it and the acidity in the tomatoes stripped off quite a bit of the coating in patches. 

So, I thought I'd strip off all the old coating completely, bring it back to iron and try the flaxseed oil and method suggested by Sheryl Canter.

What's the best and most efficient way to get the messed up patchy coating off? I was thinking of boiling some vinegar in it and then using good ol' elbow grease and sandpaper. Suggestions welcomed. Thanks.


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## Mucho Bocho

Sambal I bet barkeepers friend would do it.


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## EdipisReks

Mucho Bocho said:


> Sambal I bet barkeepers friend would do it.



it does for sure, i've done it before.


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## erikz

I use a DeBuyer 28cm carbon pan, but only to make steaks, fried tartar steaks and several other meats, veggies like egg plants and zuccini. I cant do sauces because the stick layer will go. I use a non stick pan for sauces.


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## EdipisReks

erikz said:


> I use a DeBuyer 28cm carbon pan, but only to make steaks, fried tartar steaks and several other meats, veggies like egg plants and zuccini. I cant do sauces because the stick layer will go. I use a non stick pan for sauces.



What I do for pan sauces, when using carbon steel to cook the protein, is to transfer the fond from the carbon pan into a more appropriate vessel (I usually use a tinned copper Windsor pan for sauces). A good seasoning on the carbon steel will put up with some spatula scraping.


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## ajrh

mpukas said:


> I have three sizes of De Buyer steel pans with cast iron handles, and these will got to the grave with me. The cast handles makes such a big difference, but unfortunately, De Buyer discontinued them a couple of years ago.



FWIW, I wanted to buy a couple of these last year and couldn't find them anywhere in the US, but then discovered they are still sold on rakuten.


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## mpukas

ajrh said:


> FWIW, I wanted to buy a couple of these last year and couldn't find them anywhere in the US, but then discovered they are still sold on rakuten.



cool - got clicky?


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## ajrh

mpukas said:


> cool - got clicky?



http://search.rakuten.co.jp/search/mall?sitem=デバイヤー+5910


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## Sambal

OK, barkeeper's friend it is then. 
Thanks!


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## erikz

They sell over at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=debuyer

A set of three frying pans (8/10/12") goes for 150 us.


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## mpukas

ajrh said:


> http://search.rakuten.co.jp/search/mall?sitem=&#12487;&#12496;&#12452;&#12516;&#12540;+5910


Nice find! Prices are about the same as what I paid for mine.


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## ajrh

mpukas said:


> Nice find! Prices are about the same as what I paid for mine.



Oh, that's reassuring to know - I'd guessed the Japanese prices would have been significantly higher. Of course, there's then the added convenience of buying them from the other side of the world... shipping was a pain to organize.


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## Bill13

ajrh said:


> http://search.rakuten.co.jp/search/mall?sitem=デバイヤー+5910



Do they have an English site?


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## mpukas

Bill13 said:


> Do they have an English site?


I haven't been able to find the de Buyer 5910 pans with cast handles on the Rakuten english version. Use a web browser that has translator. Internet Explorer 10 & 11 as well as Google Chrome do.


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## brianh

Got my 12". Not used to a new pan that has some light scratches around it, ding in the top rim. No big deal. Seasoning it with flaxseed oil, first round done, second underway.


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## EdipisReks

I've yet to see a new carbon that didn't have scratches and dings. They aren't expensive pans, and don't have amazing for and finish. FnF isn't the point, with them.


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## brianh

Gotcha, I figured. It's taking on a nice coloration after only two rounds. Can't wait to use it. I shoulda gotten the 8" for eggs.


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## Mingooch

I think the 10" is fine for eggs, the inner measurement seems a little smaller than other pans I have.


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## hardline_42

brianh said:


> Gotcha, I figured. It's taking on a nice coloration after only two rounds. Can't wait to use it. I shoulda gotten the 8" for eggs.


I have the 8", 10" and 12". When I ordered them, I thought I would use the 12" the least and the 8" most but, in fact, the opposite is true. The 8" is too small, too thick and the sides are too high for eggs (and most other things), at least the way I make them. The 10" is probably the best of the three for eggs. If you want a dedicated egg pan though, I suggest a de Buyer crepe pan (I like the 9.5" size) in one of the thinner lines: either la Lyonnaise or Force Blue. The thinner pans conduct heat much faster and the low sides make flipping or sliding onto a plate very easy.


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## franzb69

Would love to have de buyer pans be available locally. Lots of fine dining restos would pay an arm and a leg for them.


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## Hbeernink

hardline_42 said:


> I have the 8", 10" and 12". When I ordered them, I thought I would use the 12" the least and the 8" most but, in fact, the opposite is true. The 8" is too small, too thick and the sides are too high for eggs (and most other things), at least the way I make them. The 10" is probably the best of the three for eggs. If you want a dedicated egg pan though, I suggest a de Buyer crepe pan (I like the 9.5" size) in one of the thinner lines: either la Lyonnaise or Force Blue. The thinner pans conduct heat much faster and the low sides make flipping or sliding onto a plate very easy.



I love love love the debuyer crepe pans - I use 'em all the time, for eggs, pancakes, crepes, and almost anything except proteins. for proteins, usually use the 10" and 12" skillets. fantastic for everything (except sauces)


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## brianh

I just ordered the 9.5" Force Blue crepe. Can it be seasoned using the flax seed oil method, too?


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## hardline_42

brianh said:


> I just ordered the 9.5" Force Blue crepe. Can it be seasoned using the flax seed oil method, too?



Yes. It's the same carbon steel, just thinner and gun-blued to keep from rusting on the shelf. I seasoned my crepe pan in the oven, but I'd use the stove top method if I had to do it over.


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## Talim

The force blue crepe pan is too thin and warps easily. I rarely use it since I got the mineralBs. I think the 8" are perfect for a single eggs and 2 egg omelettes.


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## brianh

hardline_42 said:


> Yes. It's the same carbon steel, just thinner and gun-blued to keep from rusting on the shelf. I seasoned my crepe pan in the oven, but I'd use the stove top method if I had to do it over.



Why is that? Just easier?


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## rahimlee54

I accidentally got my pan to hot while I was seasoning it and burned off the middle of the pan seasoning. Is there any problem using the weed burner to remove the finish and start over?


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## Mucho Bocho

Rah, Weed Burner? that was the topic in another thread about Colorado or about Colin's copper one hitter. :rofl2:


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## hardline_42

Talim said:


> The force blue crepe pan is too thin and warps easily. I rarely use it since I got the mineralBs. I think the 8" are perfect for a single eggs and 2 egg omelettes.


Not in my experience. Mine is still dead flat after years of use. I never need more than medium heat for eggs/crepes/pancakes so warping hasn't been an issue. The thinner pan heats up much quicker and cooks quicker than the carbone/mineral pans and the low volume breakfast foods aren't as much of a heat sink as something like a steak, which would benefit from the extra thickness. Obviously, your mileage may vary depending on cooking style.



brianh said:


> Why is that? Just easier?



It's faster and provides instant feedback. When seasoning in the oven you basically just stick it in there and hope that several hours later you don't find out you used too much oil, or not enough, or applied it unevenly, or didn't leave it in long enough. On the stove top, you can see what's happening with each application, you can touch up missed spots and you don't have to heat up your entire kitchen to do it.


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## brianh

Im up to maybe 6 turns in the oven. I've noticed that the handle is getting some light removal of the hammered finish on the parts that touch the oven grates. I'm doing it upside down, but using so little oil I think right side up would be fine and then the handle wouldn't touch the grates. My crepe pan comes tomorrow and I can't wait to season and make some eggs.


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## Notaskinnychef

For those looking for DeBuyer in Canada, Futureshop online often has them 40-55% off and they ship free. Odd to find them being the best source for such goods here but they're great. I made two orders over time and keep an eye out for the sales, seems like every 2 months or so


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## Talim

hardline_42 said:


> Not in my experience. Mine is still dead flat after years of use. I never need more than medium heat for eggs/crepes/pancakes so warping hasn't been an issue. The thinner pan heats up much quicker and cooks quicker than the carbone/mineral pans and the low volume breakfast foods aren't as much of a heat sink as something like a steak, which would benefit from the extra thickness. Obviously, your mileage may vary depending on cooking style.



Mine warped from seasoning with high heat on an induction cooktop. The crepe pan was my introduction to CS pans so I basically cooked everything in it that didn't require the high sides. It's not so warped that you can't use it anymore but it does get annoying when it keeps moving around on the flat surface of the cooktop.


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## rahimlee54

Mucho Bocho said:


> Rah, Weed Burner? that was the topic in another thread about Colorado or about Colin's copper one hitter. :rofl2:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZyiZnwo5WU

I use it to light my BGE and otherwise play around. I wasn't really planning on using it on the pan though .


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## brianh

Got the 9.5" crepe pan and find it a bit too small, especially for scrambled eggs, I may send it back. I was gonna go with a 10" from west elm but they raised their sale prices. Bummer.


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## bkultra

brianh said:


> Got the 9.5" crepe pan and find it a bit too small, especially for scrambled eggs, I may send it back. I was gonna go with a 10" from west elm but they raised their sale prices. Bummer.



It's seems many are raising the prices and/or ending sales. Chefs catalog had a 3 piece set of Mineral B line (8", 10" & 12") fry pans for $99... Now it's $149. It was a great deal but I find the 8" far to small to have any use.


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## hardline_42

brianh said:


> Got the 9.5" crepe pan and find it a bit too small, especially for scrambled eggs, I may send it back. I was gonna go with a 10" from west elm but they raised their sale prices. Bummer.


The 9.5" crepe pan actually has a larger cooking surface than the 10" frying pan. The key is to buy multiple crepe pans :laugh:


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## brianh

hardline_42 said:


> The 9.5" crepe pan actually has a larger cooking surface than the 10" frying pan. The key is to buy multiple crepe pans :laugh:



Doh! Maybe I'll use the 12" for eggs! Haven't used it yet but hope to tomorrow.


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