# second stone after King 1200



## Gareth (Aug 29, 2016)

Hi Folks,

I am looking for some water stone advice. I am fairly new to sharpening, at least new to trying to do it properly! I have a couple of CCK cleavers - 1302 and 1103 - and some german stainless steel knives which are used primarily by my wife and kids. I have a large King 1200 which I picked up at Lee Valley here in Victoria B.C. for $40. CAD and I have a grey stone about the same size that I got in chinatown many years ago. It is extremely smooth. I have taken it to a couple of knife stores and they say it is a good stone but no idea the grit. Maybe between 8000/10,000. Not sure it really does much on my CCK's other than perhaps act as a hone. I am thinking that perhaps I should get something to use after the King 1200. I like to keep my cleavers really sharp so do little touch-ups everyday or two. I think it would be nice to have a stone which I could use everyday or so without worrying to much about wearing my knives down and I think something between the King and my chinatown stone would be ideal. I want to have as sharp an edge as practical for general kitchen prep. Being based in Canada, I would prefer to source from here as things add up quickly if I have to get something from the U.S. Keeping to Canadian sources, my options would be the following:
-Bester 2000 from Lee Valley. $89.50 CAD
-Imanishi 4000 from Lee Valley. $79.50 CAD 
-King Large 4000 from Lee Valley. $71.50 CAD

-Naniwa 2000 Super Stone from Paul's finest. $68.95 CAD
-Naniwa 3000 Super Stone from Pauls Finest. $73.95 CAD
-Naniwa Traditional 2000 from Pauls Finest. $55.95

-I am quite intrigued by the Green Brick of Joy but it does not seem to be available in Canada. It is on for a great price from CKTG but by the time I get it to Canada the $60. USD is more like $100. CAD.

I am wondering if any of you have any suggestions from my choices? Basically looking for a one stone solution to use frequently to keep my knives in tip top shape without wearing them down too much. I think if I maintain them I should be fine with something around 2000-4000 and only need to use my King 1200 occasionally. Or perhaps I should just stick with the King 1200 and learn how to maximize that stone?

Thanks!
Gareth


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## chinacats (Aug 29, 2016)

A couple of thoughts...I would suggest purchasing a knife that could use a higher grit stone before buying the stone...for your knives, learn to use the 1200 very well before moving on...

Also, unless you'll be sharpening nothing but crappy stainless, I'd skip the 'green brick'...it sucks!

One other thought would be that if you are looking for something after a 1200, I'd be looking in the 5-6k range.

One final note would be to go through this playlist if you haven't already.


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## foody518 (Aug 29, 2016)

Have you looked at the fine grit stones selection at knifewear? A hard Naniwa 4k stone for 65 CAD and the Arashiyama 6k for 77


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## Bolek (Aug 30, 2016)

"I like to keep my cleavers really sharp so do little touch-ups everyday or two. I think it would be nice to have a stone which I could use everyday or so without worrying to much about* wearing my knives down* and I think something between the King and my chinatown stone would be ideal."
There is no pb of wearing down cleavers there is enough steel in them for 30 years befor having a super Nakiri


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## Castalia (Aug 30, 2016)

I like the Suehiro Rika 5000 for the next step after a Bester 1200, but sticking with Canadian resources it is hard to go wrong with Lee Valley, the imanishi 4000 looks like a good one.


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## Gareth (Aug 30, 2016)

chinacats said:


> A couple of thoughts...I would suggest purchasing a knife that could use a higher grit stone before buying the stone...for your knives, learn to use the 1200 very well before moving on...



hi chinacats. Thanks for your response. I thought that CCK cleavers would benefit from a higher grit stone than a King 1200. Is that not correct?

Thanks,
Gareth


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## chinacats (Aug 30, 2016)

Gareth, I finish mine on a binsui but had finished on 1k prior to that...it's rather poor steel even though it takes a nice edge...geometry is a wonderful thing.


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## Ruso (Aug 30, 2016)

Man, being in Canada there is nothing better then buying from Japan.
Metalmaster
BlueWay Japan
Tools from Japan 
Come into mind. Cheap shipping, super fast delivery and you can always ask to lower the value on the shipping slip. The latter not so important for the stones, since anything below 50 is usually ok.


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## daveb (Aug 30, 2016)

I was browsing Tosho (a supporting vendor here) recently and thought I remembered them carrying some composites. Suehiro 5K or Arashiyama 6K w/o base. Though as CC noted, a high grit edge on a CCK may be nice for that 1st carrot - by the 2nd.....


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## labor of love (Aug 30, 2016)

Naniwa hayabusa 4k (I might be misspelling it) it's one if my best kept secrets. Fantastic, inexpensive stone. A lot better than anything from the regular naniwa line. It's like $40 or so from stu.


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## foody518 (Aug 30, 2016)

Spelling looks right. I have the Naniwa Gouken Fuji 8k from the same lineup, hard, pretty splash and go, good polish


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## berko (Aug 31, 2016)

> A lot better than anything from the regular naniwa line.



what is the regular naniwa line?


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## foody518 (Aug 31, 2016)

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Naniwa-Traditional-Stones-C160.aspx I assume that refers to the naniwa traditional line. The Naniwa Gouken (which includes the Hayabusa and the Fuji) series competes in a similar price range.
The Snow White 8k is from the traditional series


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## Ydj32 (Aug 31, 2016)

1k 3k 6k is a good increment for kitchen knives. Anything after 6k for kitchen knives is a overall and waste of money for practical purposes. The edge simply won't hold as soon as it touches the board.


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## Gareth1 (Sep 1, 2016)

thanks for that. not familiar with a Binsui. I guess the question is what is the highest grit that would be practical to finish CCK carbon steel on and then determine the best choice at that grit. Not sure I really need anything better than CCK as I am not into trying to create a blindingly sharp edge that is lost after the first few onions or whatever.


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## Gareth (Sep 2, 2016)

Thanks Vysis. Don't think I will worry about 6K. I would like to keep things simple and keep it to two stones. I don't plan to let my knives get to the state where they would need anything lower than 1200, and if I did I would just take them to a professional I think. And I dont think there is any point in going beyond 3/4K unless I ever have better knives and am much more skilled sharpening. Do you think I could easily jump from 1200 to a 4K naniwa or imanishi or King 4000 or would I be better to go no higher than 3000? Hoping to use the higher grit for weekly touchups as well as when I take a knife back to 1200.

Thanks!
Gareth



Vysis said:


> 1k 3k 6k is a good increment for kitchen knives. Anything after 6k for kitchen knives is a overall and waste of money for practical purposes. The edge simply won't hold as soon as it touches the board.


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## copperJon (Sep 2, 2016)

The standard entry level "set" of stones that seems to have gained consensus around these parts is a Beston 500, Bester 1200, and Suehiro Rika 5k. When I started sharpening with waterstones, I tried to think too much, and consequently bought too much. Ended up selling stones in the 2-4k range because they didn't get used.

Bonus that the suehiro is cheaper than the stones you've listed as well.


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## foody518 (Sep 2, 2016)

No problem going 1.2 to 4k


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## ThEoRy (Sep 2, 2016)

I go from 1200 to 5 or 6k no problem.


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## Matus (Sep 2, 2016)

It is rarely a problem to go from 1k to 6k. Do not worry.


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## daveb (Sep 2, 2016)

copperJon said:


> The standard entry level "set" of stones that seems to have gained consensus around these parts is a Beston 500, Bester 1200, and Suehiro Rika 5k.



"Consensus" might be a reach. While I agree that the 1.2 and 5K stones are good, (especially for the price), there are others that are thought of as sets that seem to get more love here. 

For coarse stones the Gesshin 400 and JNS 300 are both highly regarded. I personally don't like the 500 - don't like it a lot in fact. It has it's fans but by no means is there any sort of consensus.

JKI's 1 and 6K diamond plates come right to mind as the ultimate "set". Gesshin 2 and 4K soakers make a prized set. Gesshin 1 and 6K splash and go combo is literally a set. JNS 1K, synthetic aoto or 1K, 6K are fine splash and go stones that combined can be thought of as a set.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Oh, and no prob from 1.2 to a 4, 5 or 6K. Easy day.


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## copperJon (Sep 2, 2016)

Well I was trying to keep it simple and entry level. I like my Gesshin 400 more than the 500, and my chosera 1k better than the 1.2, but neither of those are cheap, nor would I recommend them to beginners. The beston/bester/rika combo can be had for the same price as the gesshin 4k. 

Bang for the buck, and then refine from there once you figure out what you like.


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## labor of love (Sep 2, 2016)

I really can't stress how good of a deal the naniwa hayabusa is for those who are shopping for a finishing stone on a budget. $40 for a 4k that gets plenty muddy, cuts fast and has good feedback.


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## MbBr (Sep 2, 2016)

+1 on the Hayabusa. I find the edge very good for a double bevel. Usually people recommend cheaper gear for beginners so that they upgrade later to more expensive stones. Having tried some of these, I believe it is pointless to upgrade later on, unless if one wants to experience variety; I could personally not speak of an improvement.


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## foody518 (Sep 2, 2016)

To the folks who have used the naniwa Hayabusa 4K, is it pretty close to Splash and Go? If so, I am heavily considering putting it on my list of stones to look at for medium fine stones to use for a quick touch-up. Most everything synthetic I've got that's under a 6K is a Soaker


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## MbBr (Sep 2, 2016)

I would say it is pretty close, yes. I just run it quickly under tap water as it does absorb some, but that's it. Maybe it could benefit from a quick soak, i haven't tried.


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## foody518 (Sep 2, 2016)

Excellent, thanks


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