# What's your go-to entry level gyuto recommendation at the moment?



## Migraine (Nov 6, 2020)

I know this gets discussed a lot but availability changes quite quickly and new stuff comes out etc.


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## IsoJ (Nov 6, 2020)

Munetoshi, fit and finish leaves much to improve but if I would look purely a great cutter under 200$ and a knife that is easy to sharpen and gets really sharp, this would be my choice.
Second would be Tanaka ginsan, much better fit and finish, stainless so more care free than Munetoshi.


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## Michi (Nov 6, 2020)

Kaeru stainless: Kaeru Kasumi Stainless Gyuto 210mm

Excellent value for money, solid enough not to need babying all the time, and stainless. Comes razor sharp out of the box. Great first knife for someone who wants to learn how good a knife can be.


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## Migraine (Nov 6, 2020)

JNS is £25 shipping unless you spend £210 which makes knives from there a bit harder to recommend for a newbie


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## MrHiggins (Nov 6, 2020)

Takamora chromax is a really solid entry level knife. Last year, I gave them away as Christmas gifts, and everyone still raves about them.


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## Tristan (Nov 6, 2020)

Nailed it in one. I recommend the Munetoshi for anyone that’s keen to try a carbon blade and the kaeru for those that prefer stainless.
I consider this price point to be ideal for good quality to ‘get’ knives


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## tchan001 (Nov 6, 2020)

I'd probably try for something cheaper and easier to find. I bought a Kaeru stainless 210 for my daughter as her first real knife. If it wasn't a gyuto, I'd recommend a CCK cleaver.


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## MysteryCat (Nov 6, 2020)

How about something with a western handle?


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## daveb (Nov 6, 2020)

In the states it's hard to beat the Gesshin Stainless or Gesshin Wa Stainless from JKI or Suisin Western Inox from Korin. Internationally, the Kaeru gets my nod.


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## daddy yo yo (Nov 6, 2020)

MysteryCat said:


> How about something with a western handle?


Misono Dragon or 440. Enough said.


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## daveb (Nov 6, 2020)

Can I "like" just the 440 part? Great value.

Always found the Dragon to be pretty average. Albeit cool looking average.


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## daddy yo yo (Nov 6, 2020)

I think (good) average is a good entry knife...


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## Migraine (Nov 6, 2020)

The UK is such a **** place for buying knives


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## PappaG (Nov 6, 2020)

My go to entry level is the gesshin stainless wa handled 210 or now available 240 as a great entry level.


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## Benuser (Nov 6, 2020)

Fujiwara FKH are nowadays very decent carbons. The former complaints about sulfur in the steel don't apply any longer.


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## Qapla' (Nov 6, 2020)

Kanehide TK, if the end user is righty.


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## dafox (Nov 6, 2020)

Fujiwara Kanefusa FKM from JCK


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## Ruso (Nov 6, 2020)

MrHiggins said:


> Takamora chromax is a really solid entry level knife. Last year, I gave them away as Christmas gifts, and everyone still raves about them.


Any comparison between Chromax and Kaeru? This two looks nice as entry level knives and holiday season is near - need some gifts ideas.


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## M1k3 (Nov 6, 2020)

Shigeki Tanaka.
Munetoshi.
Takamura Chromax and VG-10.
Wakui.
Gesshin Stainless and Uraka.
JCK Nature's series.
JCK Deep Impact.
Yoshikane and the knives they OEM, like Kashima.
Masashi.
Tesshu from A-frames (broad price range though).


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## M1k3 (Nov 6, 2020)

Blueway Japan can have some nice entry level options also.


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## GorillaGrunt (Nov 6, 2020)

All the ones that just got said. I haven‘t tried any of the JKI entry level stuff but I’d be confident in saying you can’t go wrong with Jon. Munetoshi or S Tanaka for someone who has the potential to get more seriously into knives, Kaeru for pros (which has supplanted recommending Mac), Takamura or Misono or Tanaka again for someone who’d enjoy something more lasery.


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## dafox (Nov 6, 2020)

daveb said:


> In the states it's hard to beat the Gesshin Stainless or Gesshin Wa Stainless from JKI or Suisin Western Inox from Korin. Internationally, the Kaeru gets my nod.


With the Suisin Western Inox from Korin are the handle sizes graduated between the 180 and 210 sizes or are they all the same size? One if the things that I dont care for with the FKM's is that they are all the same size, including the 240 and 270 suji.


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## Taz575 (Nov 6, 2020)

S. Tanaka (Love the Sekiso and R2 series, Ginsan is nice, too, haven't tried his VG-10 yet), Kohetsu, Harukaze G3 are my 3 main recommendations. Kohetsu has a good mix of western/wa handles and steels and styles/sizes. Fujiwara SS or carbons are good budget knives.


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## DitmasPork (Nov 6, 2020)

Migraine said:


> I know this gets discussed a lot but availability changes quite quickly and new stuff comes out etc.



Depends on budget, skill level, where they're coming from, etc. For people coming from western (Wustof et al), I've recommended Mac Pro, or Masamoto HC if wanting carbon. If wanting a carbon, J-handle gyuto I'd probably recommend Mazaki.


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## McMan (Nov 6, 2020)

I'd say Kaeru. I like the pointy profile and it's a tough knife.
I'd like to try one of the Gesshin stainless. And one of the Takamura chromax. I like the looks/price of both.
I like Wakui as a good value in the ~$200 window. But maybe this is outdated info? I agree, in the past few years, options at that price point have blown up.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Nov 6, 2020)

This sort of stuff confuses me because I don't understand the point of suggesting any knife over $100 to an absolute beginner. 

At the end of the day - more at the end of a few months, really - the knife will only perform as good as the person's sharpening skills. That goes for knives at any price point. 

Usually people already have cheap knives that will hold a 1k - 3k edge, so I tell them save their money, buy a cheap combo stone and get a more expensive knife after they're able to maintain an edge they're happy with. This leaves them with sharpening skills _and _a better knife at the end of the day.


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## GorillaGrunt (Nov 6, 2020)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> This sort of stuff confuses me because I don't understand the point of suggesting any knife over $100 to an absolute beginner.
> 
> At the end of the day - more at the end of a few months, really - the knife will only perform as good as the person's sharpening skills. That goes for knives at any price point.
> 
> Usually people already have cheap knives that will hold a 1k - 3k edge, so I tell them save their money, buy a cheap combo stone and get a more expensive knife after they're able to maintain an edge they're happy with. This leaves them with sharpening skills _and _a better knife at the end of the day.



Definitely a good point, in my second year of cooking and cutting and sharpening I got some knives in exotic steels that I didn't have the sharpening skill to get any benefit from. But also if I give someone a knife or advise them on picking one I assume I'm going to be sharpening it for them, teaching them how to, or both


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## AT5760 (Nov 6, 2020)

I think it depends on what type of beginner you are talking about - new to cooking, new to quality knives, or new to gyutos and Japanese knives. For people in the third category (like me not long ago), it absolutely makes sense to start in the ~$175-$275 range. They want to try something new, they know that they cook enough to use knives, and there's a good chance they are stepping up from the brands that Williams Sonoma sells. I continue to be very happy that more experienced folks recommend that I start with a S. Tanaka.


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## Danzo (Nov 6, 2020)

get something used on BST around the $200 mark. will be better than other entry level mass market knife new. S. tanaka comes to mind


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## Migraine (Nov 6, 2020)

I was asking this as there's a guy on another forum I post to who was asking about new knives as the knife set they bought is falling to bits after a few months. I've posted about knives there before so he dropped me a message.

He doesn't want to spend over £150 all in though and even a Kaeru + King 1000/6000 combi (which is what I planned to suggest before this post) is well over that once you factor in the JNS shipping (Kaeru doesn't meet the minimum spend for free shipping; not even if I split the order with him and got myself an atoma).

Think I'll have to give up and tell him to get something German.


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## DitmasPork (Nov 6, 2020)

Depends on where one's entry level wants to be. If someone said they wanted a TF Denka as a first knife, and new what they were in for, I'd say 'go for it'! I think my entry level J-knives were, Masamoto HC, then onto Kono Fuji, then a Kato WH—in hindsight, I should've started with Kato WH.


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## PappaG (Nov 6, 2020)

Every newby I have come across has a different price point. I like to be able to have a recommendation in the $1-$200.


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## DitmasPork (Nov 6, 2020)

PappaG said:


> Every newby I have come across has a different price point. I like to be able to have a recommendation in the $1-$200.



I remember a newbie here named Jose Martinez Lopez that jumped into collecting at a high price point level. Personally, I really don't equate 'entry level' with cheap knives, don't think everyone needs to climb the same latter—depends on the person. I one has a huge amount of disposable income—nothing wrong with getting on Bloodroot Blades waiting list for a first knife. Just sayin.'


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## YumYumSauce (Nov 6, 2020)

Mac pro, not the laptop lol. Readily available, stainless, unfussy, and once endorsed by Thomas Keller if you need some marketing sway. Way more bang for the buck than those gaudy shuns and miyabi's. I think it's the best value for beginners and people just not that into knives that just want something good.


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## McMan (Nov 6, 2020)

AT5760 said:


> I think it depends on what type of beginner you are talking about - new to cooking, new to quality knives, or new to gyutos and Japanese knives. For people in the third category (like me not long ago), it absolutely makes sense to start in the ~$175-$275 range. They want to try something new, they know that they cook enough to use knives, and there's a good chance they are stepping up from the brands that Williams Sonoma sells. I continue to be very happy that more experienced folks recommend that I start with a S. Tanaka.


Yeah, this is how I read OP's question too. I saw a distinction between "Entry Level" vs. "Beginner". "Entry Level' is a good knife to get in the game. One may or may not be a "beginner".


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## DitmasPork (Nov 6, 2020)

YumYumSauce said:


> Mac pro, not the laptop lol. Readily available, stainless, unfussy, and once endorsed by Thomas Keller if you need some marketing sway. Way more bang for the buck than those gaudy shuns and miyabi's. I think it's the best value for beginners and people just not that into knives that just want something good.


I've recommended Mac Pro knives a lot, mainly because they're easy to find in stores—lots if cooks I know looking for an upgrade don't like buying knives online.


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## YumYumSauce (Nov 6, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> I've recommended Mac Pro knives a lot, mainly because they're easy to find in stores—lots if cooks I know looking for an upgrade don't like buying knives online.



True, it's nice being able to handle the knife before buying. I remember my 1st few online knife purchases I felt iffy almost buying blind.


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## DitmasPork (Nov 6, 2020)

YumYumSauce said:


> True, it's nice being able to handle the knife before buying. I remember my 1st few online knife purchases I felt iffy almost buying blind.



True. I'm comfortable buying online, because I know what I want. TBH, I enjoy buying in-person much more. Also, with the people I've recommended Mac Pro to, they don't hand sharpen knives.


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## ref (Nov 6, 2020)

Migraine said:


> I was asking this as there's a guy on another forum I post to who was asking about new knives as the knife set they bought is falling to bits after a few months. I've posted about knives there before so he dropped me a message.
> 
> He doesn't want to spend over £150 all in though and even a Kaeru + King 1000/6000 combi (which is what I planned to suggest before this post) is well over that once you factor in the JNS shipping (Kaeru doesn't meet the minimum spend for free shipping; not even if I split the order with him and got myself an atoma).
> 
> Think I'll have to give up and tell him to get something German.



There are plenty of good budget options in the UK other than the Kaeru (which imo doesn't come under budget territory if you pay the shipping).

There's:

- FKM + FKH ($15 DHL shipping from HK, no duty or import tax)
- There's a few budget options from cleancut (Ohishi, Kashima (cleancut brand), Takamura vg10, even Kamo for 155e)
- Masutani (for a shorter knife, or a santoku/nakiri)
- Tsunehisa AS from cuttingedge

For all in including stone, you can get SP1k from amazon prime, and an FKM or FKH, Tojiro DP from knivesandtools.

But most people do not want or need a Japanese knife. You can get a victorinox modern from knivesandtools for £37, and currently a naniwa pro 800 or 1000 for £50. That's imo a very competitive and well priced option.


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## tostadas (Nov 6, 2020)

Migraine said:


> I was asking this as there's a guy on another forum I post to who was asking about new knives as the knife set they bought is falling to bits after a few months. I've posted about knives there before so he dropped me a message.
> 
> He doesn't want to spend over £150 all in though and even a Kaeru + King 1000/6000 combi (which is what I planned to suggest before this post) is well over that once you factor in the JNS shipping (Kaeru doesn't meet the minimum spend for free shipping; not even if I split the order with him and got myself an atoma).
> 
> Think I'll have to give up and tell him to get something German.



I think having a good base stone is more important than the first knife. It will only be as good as you can maintain.

I'd recommend a Shapton 1k ($40usd)+ your choice of AUS-8/moly gyuto under $100usd. There will be variation in profile and feel of the knives, but you end up with more or less the same thing in that price range.

For the price of a wusthof or zwilling, I'd rather save some cash and get a victorinox instead. Especially if they don't plan on getting into knives, but just want a decent tool to use and abuse.


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## TSF415 (Nov 6, 2020)

I read somewhere that a tanaka ironwood is a great beginners knife.


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## HappyamateurDK (Nov 6, 2020)

> Think I'll have to give up and tell him to get something German.



It could be a good choice with a German chef knife and a good smooth sharpening steel for a user who wants a quality knife that can take hard/unskilled use.


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## daveb (Nov 6, 2020)

dafox said:


> With the Suisin Western Inox from Korin are the handle sizes graduated between the 180 and 210 sizes or are they all the same size? One if the things that I dont care for with the FKM's is that they are all the same size, including the 240 and 270 suji.



IIRC they are graduated. I've only bought / handled the 180 and 210 and most of those were gifts.

FWIW my "first" was a Gesshin Ginga and that was a result of recommendations here. It was an excellent recommendation - for me.


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## spaceconvoy (Nov 6, 2020)

Migraine said:


> ...the knife set they bought is falling to bits after a few months. ...
> Think I'll have to give up and tell him to get something German.


Sounds like they might be hard on their knives. How about the new Victorinox Swiss Modern with the walnut handle. It's slightly thicker behind the edge than the typical entry level J knife, but not as thick as a Wusthof. Also I almost agree with tostadas, they should focus on one stone if they're starting out sharpening, but I'd suggest the Shapton 1500 for a slightly finer edge


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## MysteryCat (Nov 6, 2020)

For me entry level means a beginner who's not discerning. Tojiro dp, misono moly all work well enough, they are standard knives with standard features that can cut and can last.

I like knives and craftsmanship, I think the love that goes into a knife translates into love that you put into food, but anything more expensive is dependent on personal preference and starts tending towards diminishing returns.

My sweet spot for a craftsmanship knife is 200-250usd, like an ashi hamono or hiromoto. That's probably what I'd gift to someone I like.

Is anything in between those two price points really that relevant or value for money?


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## Carl Kotte (Nov 6, 2020)

Denka


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## DitmasPork (Nov 6, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Denka



Hey that's what I said earlier!


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## M1k3 (Nov 6, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Hey that's what I said earlier!


2 Maboroshi's.


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## Migraine (Nov 6, 2020)

MysteryCat said:


> Is anything in between those two price points really that relevant or value for money?



I bought a Tojiro DP as my first gyuto. Once I got more into knives, I bought my mum a Kaeru. There is a BIG difference between the two, and the Kaeru is definitely more than worth the difference IMO.


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## Carl Kotte (Nov 6, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Hey that's what I said earlier!


Sorry, I didn’t see that!


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## Carl Kotte (Nov 6, 2020)

Migraine said:


> I bought a Tojiro DP any first gyuto. Once I got more into knives, I bought my mum a Kaeru. There is a BIG difference between the two, and the Kaeru is definitely more than worth the difference IMO.


I like Tojiro DP. I like it much more than Kaeru. But they’re both good value for money


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## Migraine (Nov 6, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> I like Tojiro DP. I like it much more than Kaeru. But they’re both good value for money



Fair enough.


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## DitmasPork (Nov 6, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> I like Tojiro DP. I like it much more than Kaeru. But they’re both good value for money



My family and lots of their friend swear by 'kai pure komachi 2,' the brightly colored Japanese knife, from Seki City, can be had for about $10–$20. I used them for years visiting family, before I started bringing my knife roll. Price point comfort-zone is so subjective—a $100 is an expensive entry level knife, whereas $300 is a cheap entry level knife for others.


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## MysteryCat (Nov 6, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> My family and lots of their friend swear by 'kai pure komachi 2,' the brightly colored Japanese knife, from Seki City, can be had for about $10–$20. I used them for years visiting family, before I started bringing my knife roll. Price point comfort-zone is so subjective—a $100 is an expensive entry level knife, whereas $300 is a cheap entry level knife for others.



Or a fibrox


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## Oshidashi (Nov 6, 2020)

Just bought a Mercer Renaissance 8 inch chef knife for a friend who is an outstanding home cook (esp. cuisine from her home town, New Orleans ), but she's strapped for cash and really needed a decent knife, so I bought it for her birthday. Only $48. I can tell you she's not going to use a stone to sharpen it, and this knife can be kept going for a long time with a steel rod. When the rod stops working she can bring it to me. She loves the knife and it's much more worry free for a novice than a Japanese knife would be. I also have one of these and enjoy it, esp for jobs that you'd worry about with a Japanese knife. Today I used it for destoning halved avocados. Good starter when budget is low, and for me it has a nicer feel and f&f than the same level Victorinox.


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## Benuser (Nov 6, 2020)

YumYumSauce said:


> True, it's nice being able to handle the knife before buying. I remember my 1st few online knife purchases I felt iffy almost buying blind.


It takes some time to get know a new knife, experimenting with your grip and perhaps fine tuning your technique. Handling it in a brick and mortar shop or even cutting a few products gives only a very first impression. It may be very wrong. It says more about what you are used to than what you are actually handling.
With a first good knife I would suggest a middle-of-the-road one, so you can explore your preferences (weight, balance, length, width, profile, geometry, material) and develop your skills.


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## nico1180 (Nov 6, 2020)

I like the tojiro white #2 itk series I think they still sell the at cktg... Good beginner knives good steel. At least the ones I have...


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## YumYumSauce (Nov 6, 2020)

Benuser said:


> It takes some time to get know a new knife, experimenting with your grip and perhaps fine tuning your technique. Handling it in a brick and mortar shop or even cutting a few products gives only a very first impression. It may be very wrong. It says more about what you are used to than what you are actually handling.
> With a first good knife I would suggest a middle-of-the-road one, so you can explore your preferences (weight, balance, length, width, profile, geometry, material) and develop your skills.



I dont disagree. I didnt know what I liked my 1st few knives. Still would rather be able to get a feel for one as opposed to just buying blind. But I almost excusivley buy online, lol.


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## ModRQC (Nov 6, 2020)

Still hard to beat a Victorinox Rosewood Chef, either 8" or 10", for a very low price and western handle. These knives can be brought to perform crazily good. Need some stone work OOTB though. Most inexpensive knives do need some work OOTB. 

If you want an acutal J-knife that cuts OOTB, grab a Yoshikane. Still inexpensive, relatively speaking, and damn the western handle, just try one and you'll get an idea of good done cheap to the paradisiac level.


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## JAMMYPANTZ (Nov 7, 2020)

+6..or 7 (?) on the munetoshi recommendations. I think knifewear is selling them during their November garage sale.
+1 on the gesshin ginga
Not sure if this was recommended but I’d also recommend the gesshin uraku KU as well. Price has stayed the same while the price of the munetoshi just kept increasing over at JNS.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Nov 7, 2020)

daddy yo yo said:


> Misono Dragon or 440. Enough said.


I'm with this guy. Still have mine and love it.


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## henkle (Nov 7, 2020)

Just received a Wakui 210 nashiji. Very nice balance and fit and finish.


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## YumYumSauce (Nov 9, 2020)

Someone was asking for knife recomendations on a fb page. All the recomendations were by the cutco, dalstrong, shun crowd . Even saw a link to burrfection lol. I forget how not average we are as far as knives go sometimes.


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## Blerghle (Nov 18, 2020)

Anybody have thoughts on the Bernal Masake 'New Old Stock' in the sub-$100 range? Masakane 210mm Gyuto SK Carbon Steel New Old Stock


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## daddy yo yo (Nov 18, 2020)

YumYumSauce said:


> Someone was asking for knife recomendations on a fb page. All the recomendations were by the cutco, dalstrong, shun crowd . Even saw a link to burrfection lol. I forget how not average we are as far as knives go sometimes.


You also forgot how far below average the quality of facebook-postings is in general...


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Nov 18, 2020)

daddy yo yo said:


> You also forgot how far below average the quality of facebook-postings is in general...


God yes, this, x10000000.


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## YumYumSauce (Nov 18, 2020)

daddy yo yo said:


> You also forgot how far below average the quality of facebook-postings is in general...




True ha. But I do think fb posts like that are pretty representative of the average person and their skills and knowledge. The bar is set pretty low. Most of my friends and people I know are in the same boat knife/cooking wise.


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## 4wa1l (Nov 18, 2020)

Blerghle said:


> Anybody have thoughts on the Bernal Masake 'New Old Stock' in the sub-$100 range? Masakane 210mm Gyuto SK Carbon Steel New Old Stock



@ModRQC did a nice write up recently in the reviews section on the 210mm. I have a 120mm petty and I like it.


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## ModRQC (Nov 18, 2020)

Thoughts are threshold for money spent and use of the knife.

I just wanted a cheap carbon gyuto to play with. Not so higher up the price bracket, you can get a much better knife. If limited funds it does the job. Then again check around carefully - there's so many knives of that price and less expensive readily available especially in the US, that are more of the same thing.


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## inferno (Nov 18, 2020)

i often recommend mac knives to people that ask me. its aus8 at around 58-ish hrc (60 for the cryoed models). no nonsense designs. takes a good edge. and keeps it fairly long too. the cryoed ones are real beasts imo. you could do a lot worse for 60-70bux or 100-130 or what the cryoed ones now cost.

everyone i know that has gotten one is super happy with them.


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## ModRQC (Nov 18, 2020)

In Canada the cryoed Mac is almost double the price of the Masakane, and in that range a bit overpriced for value. Don't know about elsewhere.


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## DitmasPork (Nov 18, 2020)

Last knife I recommended was a 210 Gesshin Stainless the other day, she bought it, now sold out. Great that it comes with a saya.


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## PappaG (Nov 18, 2020)

240 is still available and a great deal as well.



DitmasPork said:


> Last knife I recommended was a 210 Gesshin Stainless the other day, she bought it, now sold out. Great that it comes with a saya.


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## Blerghle (Nov 18, 2020)

I had a family member asking for advice on a gift for her son, who has some restaurant kitchen experience, with a budget around $100. I gave her a list with Misony Moly for stainless, Misono Swedish steel or Fujiwara FKM for western handled carbon, and a couple of non-gyuto all-purpose recs. This thread was helpful for me. After reading the review mentioned above, it sounded like the Masakane is maybe a little too flexible for most.


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## Twigg (Nov 20, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> I like Tojiro DP. I like it much more than Kaeru. But they’re both good value for money


I have gifted 2 Tojiro DP 240s to friends and they love them. They both were amazed after using them. To be fair, they both were used to Cuisinart and Chicago Cutlery level stuff. So far, the Tojiro's have held up well for them. I chose these because they were stainless for lower maintenance, price point and reputation. Seems like a good choice for a beginner/entry level gyuto.


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## Benuser (Nov 20, 2020)

The Tojiro DPs are decent knives and excellent value. A three stones progression as needed for deburring VG-10 isn't exactly what a novice sharpener should start with. Asking for troubles.


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## Jason183 (Nov 20, 2020)

For beginners I would recommend either carbon stainless clad or Swedish stainless steel knives, much easier to sharpen, I sold all my old vg 10s


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