# Like a naughty schoolboy



## captaincaed (Dec 11, 2019)

This is going to be a recommend me a knife thread like you've never seen. I'm not filling out the questionnaire because I only care about one thing.

Will it sit quietly in the corner?

When I cut that food, I want it to sit there quietly. Every time. No drama, no fuss, no onion tears, just well behaved potato slices and French fries. Not asking for the world. Doesn't need to be a great cutter, doesn't need an amazing tip or profile. But when it cuts food, the food should sit there like a child in time out. Like a naughty school boy. 

Taking recommendations, also see related BST thread if you have anything you'd like to trade and are willing to take a short vid to show off how cool your knife is.

I have several great cutters and all rounders, but sometimes I need a special tool, like a honesuki or a cleaver. I want my pommes Anna, Andy Capp Hot Fries potato slaying knife for tater night. 

Peace, and thanks in advance.


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## Oui Chef (Dec 12, 2019)

I still remember the first time I cut potatoes at work with an S grind Marko 4 years ago
And I can't remember who I was sleeping with then, so there you go


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## rob (Dec 12, 2019)

Kippington hook grind.


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## captaincaed (Dec 12, 2019)

I keep hearing about this Kippington fellow. Both his honyaki and hook grind seem to have a lot of attention poured into them.


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## ian (Dec 12, 2019)

Read this thread and you’ll know there’s only one knife to get.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/food-release-stiction-and-the-grind.35641/


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## ethompson (Dec 12, 2019)

I really love my Takeda nakiri for this. Nothing can fine dice or julienne an onion like it. Also have had great results with on potatoes - steak frites is one of my favorite meals.


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## Nemo (Dec 12, 2019)

A somewhat cryptic OP but I guess that you are asking about knives with very good food release?

Best 5 I have tried are Mert Tansu Workhorse, Watanabe Pro, Kippington Hook Grind, Yoshikane Hammered, Wakui Hammered and Toyama. Probably in that order. The Kippington is by far the thinnest of these.


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## labor of love (Dec 12, 2019)

My fave potato slayer. They’re not lasers or anything so they won’t zip through potatoes. But I love love love the food release, and the potato sits perfectly still on the board.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...sshin-heiji-240-mm-semi-stainless-wa-sujihiki

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...esshin-heiji-240mm-semi-stainless-wa-sujihiki

20% off sale.
Generally speaking I enjoy suji for potatoes.


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## captaincaed (Dec 13, 2019)

Yes, probably too cryptic. I was hoping click bait would draw people in, I may have miscalculated. 

I had a Marko s-grind that worked quite well, but it was a weird HSS that was a bear (for me) to sharpen so I passed it on.

I've heard the Kippington name often around these parts, and I really like the technical attention he pays to grinds.

On the other hand, I'm going to go to JKI (for the first time ever!) in a couple days, so maybe I'll slap eyes on a Heiji and fall in love.

@Nemo, I heard the HVB was a food-release beast - you'd give Mert two thumbs up?

@labor of love , I almost went for one the last time. Why suji over gyuto? I hear the lower weight of the suji hampers cutting on denser foods.


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## labor of love (Dec 13, 2019)

I slice/pull cut potatoes. You could use any gyuto with tremendous distal taper or very thin tip to achieve similar cuts to a suji with regards to potatoes. But for consecutive pull cuts I like a suji, more narrow blade means less drag or chances for the product to stick to the blade.

I understand potatoes are used in videos to demonstrate food release or pure cutting ability with push cut motion. But for the most consistent cuts (like brabants) pull cuts are the way to go IMO.

So a Heiji suji offers good food release grind+plus less drag because of narrow blade.


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## captaincaed (Dec 13, 2019)

I hear that. I have some ergonomic issues left from a decade in lab work (wrists and elbows) so draw cuts can tweak a nerve for me. Push cutting feels much better, so I keep hunting around for knives for each job that let me keep working comfortably.


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## Nemo (Dec 13, 2019)

Mert was a full time chef then became a knifemaker in his spare time, then became a full time knifemaker. He has a very good appreciation of what works well in the kitchen and what doesn't.

Edit: I should add that Mert is not the only knifemaker to have this perspective but I think that it can be a useful perspective for a knifemaker to have.


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## captaincaed (Dec 13, 2019)

I'm with you there. Having the end users perspective can be important. I think Kippington had that similar perspective. It seems like he takes the grind seriously and knows how to execute the design. 

Sounds like Hunter valley, Kippington and Heiji are all top contenders. 

I've heard the watanabe is very good, but I'm avoiding iron clad if possible....


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## ian (Dec 13, 2019)

captaincaed said:


> I'm with you there. Having the end users perspective can be important. I think Kippington had that similar perspective. It seems like he takes the grind seriously and knows how to execute the design.
> 
> Sounds like Hunter valley, Kippington and Heiji are all top contenders.
> 
> I've heard the watanabe is very good, but I'm avoiding iron clad if possible....



Watanabe is stainless clad nowadays, I think.


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## Barmoley (Dec 13, 2019)

Marko weird HSS would be cool to have I was hunting for one for a while, never found anyone wanting to sell.

HVB that I have has very good food release, it is from the first batch of 52100 he made. Mert’s knives are excellent in general. 

@labor of love makes excellent points though, technique matters and suji or less tall gyuto works better for potatoes.


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## ThinMan (Dec 13, 2019)

Takeda


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 13, 2019)

Xerxes


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## captaincaed (Dec 13, 2019)

ThinMan said:


> Takeda


I’m not sure I can go through the heartbreak of trying to find a good copy. I hear they can be amazing though


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## captaincaed (Dec 13, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> Xerxes
> 
> View attachment 66728
> View attachment 66729


Have the Primus, my copy Unfortunately doesn’t fit the bill.
Edit: that's a gorgeous handle


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 13, 2019)

Captain C ...

Seems that I have a bit of a collection of Takeda AS series. I’ll drag them out with some potatoes and give them a try.


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## ThinMan (Dec 13, 2019)

captaincaed said:


> I’m not sure I can go through the heartbreak of trying to find a good copy. I hear they can be amazing though



Unless you are very unlucky, Jon at JKI would be able to correct any OOTB deficiencies.

I have a 240 AS gyuto of 2018 vintage that is great.


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## captaincaed (Dec 13, 2019)

OK, I'm listening. I think I remember someone recently saying it was the only knife that would leave mirpoixe onions sitting on the board. Am I remembering right?
Any idea of the sasanoha version performs as well? I prefer that size, but in this case I'm asking for a specific job so I'm open to new ideas.


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## labor of love (Dec 13, 2019)

Yeah I’d like to hear from NAS owners too. The one I tried seem to cut a little differently than reg takeda.


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 13, 2019)

I wrapped up the tests this afternoon. I’ll go through the pics and have my report tomorrow. I went through a 150 petty, 240 Gyuto, 300 Gyuto, 240 Sasanoha and lge cleaver. I might do a 270 Suji if I can find it. Very interesting results. Here’s a teaser pic ...


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## labor of love (Dec 13, 2019)

@Brian Weekley that reminds me of a video someone already made demonstrating potato food release.


Well, what do you know? The OP made this video haha


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 13, 2019)

Interesting ... for my sixth potato I used a Carter International Pro funayuki. I did all my cuts for French fries. From looking at the video I might pick up some more potatoes and try the scalloped potato/potato chip cut. What do you do with the results of a six potato cutting test? One of my favourite recipes ... Tuscan sausage and potato soup. Here’s a pic ...


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## captaincaed (Dec 14, 2019)

labor of love said:


> @Brian Weekley that reminds me of a video someone already made demonstrating potato food release.
> 
> 
> Well, what do you know? The OP made this video haha



Why you gotta do me like that bro?
Yeah I've been chasing this dragon for a while. Perhaps a bit obsessed. I liked the Kochi but it's just too light and a bit inconsistent. some days it shows up and some days it stays in bed. 

Also hell yes for the test! Love the teaser shot. Looks better than my potato shots


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## labor of love (Dec 14, 2019)

captaincaed said:


> Why you gotta do me like that bro?
> Yeah I've been chasing this dragon for a while. Perhaps a bit obsessed. I liked the Kochi but it's just too light and a bit inconsistent. some days it shows up and some days it stays in bed.
> 
> Also hell yes for the test! Love the teaser shot. Looks better than my potato shots


This was a great video. I think you did a very good job.
Next time pull cut


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## captaincaed (Dec 14, 2019)

labor of love said:


> This was a great video. I think you did a very good job.
> Next time pull cut


Hah! Ok


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 14, 2019)

Ok .... here we go ... the big Takeda Potato shootout!

First m collection of Takeda AS series knives ...






From left to right ...

80mm kogatana
150 petty
165 bunka
220 mioroshi
240 Sasanoha
240 Yanigaba (sujihiki)
240 Gyuto
300 Gyuto
240 large Chinese cleaver

and for the sake of comparison a 240 Xerxes.

I touched up only the bunka by stropping. All the rest of the knives were taken from my kitchen without touching up. All were kitchen sharp, some like the cleaver, and 300 Gyuto had actually been used quite a bit. I went out and bought some russet potatoes ... 10 in total ... and peeled them all. The first test was to split the potato, then slice into large French fries then cube. In all cases I held the knife in one hand ... the result speak for themselves. Based on the results of these tests I took the front runners and did a scalloped potato/potato chip cut. I held the potato and did the slice with one hand. The slices fell where they fell in the pictures. No touching. All cuts were push cuts.

Results ... The kogatana and mioroshi were really not suitable for the tests. They were too small and too thick. The 150 petty worked fine on small potatoes but the blade was too short to handle the large potatoes in a single push cut.

All of the other Takeda’s handled the potatoes just fine and for the most part all the potatoes behaved liked naughty school boys. There was no wedging in any of the blades. There was very little sticking. A bit with some of the blades on the lighter outside pieces of the French fries cut. The Takeda Yanigaba (sujihiki) was the stand out best at slicing potatoes. The 240 Sasanoha was a very close second. The 240 Gyuto was third and virtually matched by the large Chinese cleaver in cutting performance. I added my Xerxes 240 Gyuto into the test and found that it matched the Takeda Sasanoha.

Conclusions. ... in my opinion the naughty schoolboy winner was the 240 Sasanoha. Second was the 240 Xerxes Gyuto. Third was the Takeda 240 Gyuto in a dead heat with the large Takeda cleaver.

To avoid making this post too long I’ll include the performance pics and rationale in the next post.

Brian


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 14, 2019)

Rationale ...

The Takeda Yanigaba was the standout best performer. Here’s the pics. 













Why did I knock the best performer out of the top 4. Simply because I felt that the blade was too long, thin and flexible to be an everyday user in even a home kitchen. I feel it is actually a sujihiki. It has a 50-50 bevel and san Mai construction.

The winner in my opinion was the Takeda 240 Sasanoha. Here’s the pics:












It’s pure Takeda. A lovely knife to use as a general purpose everyday kitchen regular. My only kick might be the grind which, though delightful to use and sharpen, may not stand the test of time.

Second ... the Xerxes 240 Gyuto. Here’s the pics:









Unquestionably the most expensive knife of the bunch, it offered excellent naughty school boy performance while being a knife that will last a lifetime of everyday use in a home kitchen.

Third is the Takeda 240 gyuto. Here’s the pics:









Great performer and an extra tall heel sought by many. Uniquely Takeda offering long life and unmistakable presence. I personally actually prefer the 300 Gyuto myself. It’s a monster. I call it my “cabbage killer”. I recognize though that others might not agree so the 240 gets the pick. 

The 4th winner is the large Chinese cleaver. Pics in the next post ....


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 14, 2019)

And the Chinese cleaver ...












If I had a sentimental favourite it would be the cleaver. When I received it I put all my gyutos away and used the cleaver. It’s amazingly maneuverable, scary sharp and tons of fun to use. Would others agree ... probably not ... but I’m the judge and it’s my rules. I have a Takeda nakiri enroute which might completely upset the potato cart .. if you get my meaning.

My best advice from the big potato shootout ... buy this Sasanoha. If you can fit it in your budget and can find one by the Xerxes. I’m sure there are other knives that will fill the bill ... perhaps even better. 

Epilogue ...

Day one of the shootout yielded the biggest pot I have full of Tuscan Sausage and Potato soup. About a years supply! Day two has yielded this ...






Let’s see ... a years worth of scalloped potatoes and six month supply of leek and potato soup. I wonder if it’s possible to get potato poisoning?

Next up ... please don’t tell me it’s the hot pepper shootout!


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## labor of love (Dec 14, 2019)

I had a takeda Yanagiba and it slayed tomatoes. Truly excellent suji. Food releaser and thin.


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 14, 2019)

Lofl... do you agree with my rationale for kicking it out of top spot?


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## labor of love (Dec 14, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> Lofl... do you agree with my rationale for kicking it out of top spot?


Because it’s too long and flexible? I had a 240mm wasn’t too long for me, but yeah that takeda flexibility is weird. I slice potatoes, so suji just works great for me.


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## Barmoley (Dec 14, 2019)

His knives are thin, they get rigidity from height, but his sujis don't have that so you get flexibility. I don't like that, but some might. Craig is right though that in general it is tough to challenge a suji or narrow gyuto for potato slicer crown. Great test, thanks for sharing and I am glad it didn't make a lier out of me


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 15, 2019)

No worries Barm ... it was actually kind of fun. After digging out all of my Takeda’s I’m beginning to think I may have too many knives. In the process I found that I have 3 Mizuno 240 gyutos. I thought that I might have doubled up on them (I love Mizuno’s knives) but 3 is a stretch. They say that the memory is the second thing to go!


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## rob (Dec 15, 2019)

Hi Brian, thanks for your efforts and write up.

PS I have a bit of soft spot for Takedas and would love to aquire one of his cleavers in the future.


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 15, 2019)

Honestly his large cleaver is a complete blast to use. I can understand why Chinese chefs use nothing but the cleaver. I wouldn’t use it to chop any bones or hard cartilage but it’s amazingly agile to use. The tip and heel become mini knives of their own and I don’t think anybody would argue with someone wielding a Takeda cleaver. Caressing the “S” grind is somewhat reminiscent of the spot above my first wife’s hips. ... she was my trophy wife! Aaaaaah ... life is good!


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## ThinMan (Dec 15, 2019)

Thanks for the test and write up @Brian Weekley


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## captaincaed (Dec 20, 2019)

Man what a cool test. I love it when a question inspires someone to do something creative and original. These photos are just great, this is a very cool comparison. I get the sense this is a line I should look into for this specific task... Looks like one more dragon to chase, eh?

With the Xerxes, the cut pieces look like they're further separated than the Takeda piece. Is the Xerxes more of a wedger? (Not necessarily a bad thing in this context).

I feel your suggestion for a little stiffness over the slight edge in performance. That flexibility can be awkward to control if you're not ready for it.

Are you sick of the soup yet?!

Also, out of curiosity, what's your camera and lighting setup?


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## captaincaed (Dec 20, 2019)

Sorry for the delay in reply - on the road travelling, and wanted to be able to sit at a computer to give this proper reply on a big screen where I could see what's going on.


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## riba (Dec 20, 2019)

Tuscan Sausage and Potato soup sounds tasty, gonna hunt for a recipe and give it a try 
enjoying this thread


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 20, 2019)

_Welcome back CaptainC_ .. . Good catch on the Xerxes. In the French fry cut it did wedge slightly and required a little twist of the blade to get the outside pieces to drop. Not so in the slicing test ... the slices dropped easily in line. I suspect the same would happen with the fries cut if I were doing a volume. The pics were all iPhone 10Smax with the overhead incandescent lighting on hi in my dining room. I used the “magic wand” button on the Apple Pictures editing software to generally brighten the pic. I took lots of pics of each of the knives but just used a few pics of what I thought were the top knives. 

The whole test was a lot of fun. As much as I like to sit and admire the knives in my collection I like using my knives more. Maybe we need a new category on KKF .... “Knives in Action”. It would be nice to see pics of guys using their knives for this and that ... strictly food related. 

Since completing the test I’ve had a couple of thoughts. The first is that the Takeda petty is a really nice knife. Here’s one of its potato pics ...






It didn’t do as well as the larger Takeda blades in the potato test but it was credible and it really is a nice knife to have in the kitchen. I have it in my permanent block of seven knives. This block holds 7 knives and doesn’t rotate. It holds the knives I reach for when I’m serious and want to get things done in the kitchen. I use the Takeda petty for the widest variety of tasks. It’s very light yet stiff and easy in the hand. It, like all Takeda’s, takes a psycho edge easily and is very easy to sharpen. I use a green compound loaded leather strop for sharpening touch ups with a quick progression from 1k to 4k stones when I sharpen the Takeda’s. It was actually in need of sharpening when I did the potato test. All the Takeda’s tested were fully reactive AS blades with a rather heavy and rough karouchi finish. The Takeda’s don’t really have a strong tendency to develop patina which is certainly due to the finish. Takeda has moved to the stainless clad NAS blades for current production and claims that they are superior in every respect. It’s not for me to argue... I haven’t tried them. As Japanese knives go the Takeda’s are in the “moderately expensive” category. The Sasanoha is closest to the normal style of gyuto that are available but the tall heel on the regular gyuto is very nice also. I cut slightly differently with the standard gyuto. More push cutting and less rocking than with the Sasanoha. Logic might dictate the other way around but that’s my experience. 

As a bit of an aside I tried several of my other knives on the test. I won’t show the results but suffice to say that all weren’t equally capable when it came to potatoes. No naughty schoolboys with those blades. It would be interesting to see the test pics on some of the knives that have been recommended by others in the thread.


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 20, 2019)

_riba ... here’s a screen shot of my Tuscan Potato and Sausage soup recipe. _
_



_ 

It is a really easy and tasty soup recipe. The trick is choosing a nice craft sausage. I prefer a Leek and portobello mushroom pork sausage that is made locally but anything would work. I make it in large batches ... as you can see the screen shot was taken of a doubled batch. It freezes well and makes for a nice quick main when served with a chunk of nice bread. Give it a try.


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## riba (Dec 20, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> _riba ... here’s a screen shot of my Tuscan Potato and Sausage soup recipe. _
> [...]
> It is a really easy and tasty soup recipe. The trick is choosing a nice craft sausage. I prefer a Leek and portobello mushroom pork sausage that is made locally but anything would work. I make it in large batches ... as you can see the screen shot was taken of a doubled batch. It freezes well and makes for a nice quick main when served with a chunk of nice bread. Give it a try.


Thanks a heap! Gonna give it a try the coming period!


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 9, 2020)

In my recent Naughty Schoolboy Great Potato Takeda Slapdown the one Takeda that was missing from my test was the Takeda Nakiri ... or as some people call it a “vegetable cleaver”. It was one of the few Classic AS series Takeda’s that I didn’t have in my collection. As luck would have it Brontes decided to part with his AS Series Takeda Nakiri and posted it on BST. About three milliseconds later (or so it seems) I pressed the buy it now button and it was mine.

When it arrived I gave it the thumbnail test for edge and touched it up on my gold compound strop. I peel a couple of large russet potatoes and commenced the “Naughty Schoolboy” test. The following pics record the results. 















No question in my mind ... the Takeda Nakiri is the new hands down winner of the “Naughty Schoolboy” Potato slap down. Sorry Sasanoha ... you’re now in second place.


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## ian (Jan 9, 2020)

Brian Weekley said:


> In my recent Naughty Schoolboy Great Potato Takeda Slapdown the one Takeda that was missing from my test was the Takeda Nakiri ... or as some people call it a “vegetable cleaver”. It was one of the few Classic AS series Takeda’s that I didn’t have in my collection. As luck would have it Brontes decided to part with his AS Series Takeda Nakiri and posted it on BST. About three milliseconds later (or so it seems) I pressed the buy it now button and it was mine.
> 
> When it arrived I gave it the thumbnail test for edge and touched it up on my gold compound strop. I peel a couple of large russet potatoes and commenced the “Naughty Schoolboy” test. The following pics record the results.
> 
> ...



Yum. That last pic is very suggestive. Looks like the knife was a good buy.


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 9, 2020)

Especially when you consider how hard the AS series Takeda’s are to find. I feel that I was very lucky. Nakiri’ s are among the less popular knives it seems. Fewer out there.


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## captaincaed (Jan 9, 2020)

That's just pure potato pornography. Does that mean the sasanoha is going up on BST? Eh? Eh?


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 9, 2020)

No such luck ... the Sasanoha is one of my favourites even if it did fall from 1st place in the potato slap down. It was my first Takeda and really piqued my interest in his blades. When Takeda discontinued his AS series in favour of his stainless clad NAS series I decided to try to collect his complete AS series. My collection is pretty well complete.


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## drsmp (Jan 9, 2020)

@Brian Weekley Can you explain this? “My only kick might be the grind which, though delightful to use and sharpen, may not stand the test of time.” Thanks!


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 9, 2020)

Agreed ... the grind must have a finite life. How long it will last for me will depend on how often it sees my stones. For me that’s not very often. The core steel, aogami super, holds an edge extremely well and is easily sharpened. The softer cladding will eventually recede to the point that the grind changes. The speculation is that the performance will suffer ... exactly how, I don’t know. Although I sharpen pretty much daily, one of my individual knives my see my stones once or twice a year. The rest of the time I find I can maintain my edges satisfactorily through stropping. Stropping removes very little metal. Given my usage pattern my Takeda’s will last far beyond my lifetime. I have too many knives and am very careful in how I use them. For me it’s not a worry ... I just go ahead and enjoy the cutting performance of my Takeda’s.

But your point is well taken. The grind that is a feature of Takeda’s knives which accounts to some degree for their cutting performance, can also can be viewed as a defect affecting their longevity. At least that’s my understanding.


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## Brian Weekley (Feb 9, 2020)

Had an occasion to whack away at another potato yesterday and thought I’d update the Naughty Schoolboy thread. This time it was one of Mert Tansu’s production HVB Gyuto vs a monster russet potato of the type that I love to chop.

Here’s a pic of the result ...






The blade got off to a bit of a slow start with a bit of sticking. Nothing major but once the blade was wet the knife was in cruise mode. Sit still and be quiet naughty schoolboy! I was a bit surprised at the result as the potato was a little old and quite starchy. Not quite in Takeda country but very credible and easy to use. This line of knives is really excellent value. I got it from Phillip at Home Butcher. He has an excellent supply of HVB knives at the present time. Great guy as well.


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## captaincaed (Feb 10, 2020)

Yeah I have a buying moratorium, but that knife may break me. Seems really well balanced.


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## Brian Weekley (Mar 19, 2020)

Was doing up a dish tonight to welcome my Catcheside Gyuto to the family. It involved slicing one of my favourite monster potatoes so I thought it was a perfect opportunity to enter my Catcheside Gyuto into the great potato slap down. Here’s the results.






Hmmmm ... pretty good results. The Catchside gave the Takeda’s an excellent run for their money. At the start I had to flick the first few slices off with my forefinger, but once the blade got wet it sliced through the potato and made perfect “Naughty Schoolboy” slices. Amazing because the knives couldn’t be more different. The Catcheside is a full 4mm thick at the heel tapering beautifully to the tip but most of the slices were made by push cuts around the belly of the blade. Amazing. All in I think the Catcheside is probably tops for consideration. It did a wonderful job of slicing and doesn’t come with the blade shape issues that may ultimately affect the Takeda’s. Later in the prep did the same slicing job on a sweet potato with the same result and a carrot with more sticking. Here’s some pics.


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## captaincaed (Mar 20, 2020)

Yeah I really want to try a catcheside... Been on my radar for a while. Once school is over.


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## Brian Weekley (Mar 22, 2020)

I had occasion to have at another monster potato today with a new knife to me. Bought it last year and just got around to test flying it today. It’s a 215mm Gyuto by Will Newham. 2.94mm thick at the heel tapering to .52mm 1” from the tip. Monosteel, AEBL steel. 

Here’s a pic of the potato and Naughty Schoolboy results. 









It’s not the winner but it’s a solid 8 out of 10. I was surprised because I had low expectations on foot release from a polished blade. Some of the slices required a flick from my left hand index finger to get them to release but for the most part the very sharp, thin blade just dropped through the potato. The dish I was prepping needed a chopped onion and I can say Will’s Gyuto is the hands down winner of the onion horizontal slice.

Until next time ...


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## captaincaed (Mar 22, 2020)

That's not bad at all!


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## btbyrd (Sep 27, 2021)

Since this thread comes up periodically in Takeda discussions, I thought I'd chime in to note that the grinds on Takedas vary so much from knife to knife that generalizing about whether or not nakiris outperform gyutos or yanagis or whatever is sort of a fool's errand (no offense to the OP). There's no such thing as "the Takeda nakiri." There is only "this Takeda nakiri" and "that Takeda nakiri" and so forth. I have two Takeda gyutos and they're worlds apart in grind. If I ever buy another Takeda, I'm going to try to handle it in person first and see how it cuts or buy used from someone whose feedback on the blade I can trust. That said, I do very much appreciate this thread -- especially the photos and cutting anecdotes. I hope even more knives get added to it in time.


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 27, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> Since this thread comes up periodically in Takeda discussions, I thought I'd chime in to note that the grinds on Takedas vary so much from knife to knife that generalizing about whether or not nakiris outperform gyutos or yanagis or whatever is sort of a fool's errand (no offense to the OP). There's no such thing as "the Takeda nakiri." There is only "this Takeda nakiri" and "that Takeda nakiri" and so forth. I have two Takeda gyutos and they're worlds apart in grind. If I ever buy another Takeda, I'm going to try to handle it in person first and see how it handles or buy used from someone whose feedback on the blade I can trust. That said, I do very much appreciate this thread -- especially the photos and cutting anecdotes. I hope even more knives get added to it in time.



I couldn’t agree more … in fact comparing seemingly identical hand made knives is probably more hyperbole than anything else. They are all different … thats part of the point. As with many things YMMV when you depend on anything more than your own experience. Still … it’s nice to chat about this and that with our favourite pastime.


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## coxhaus (Sep 27, 2021)

I have an old Henckels 4star utility knife that if I am having sticking problems that kind of works for me. It is thin for a Henckels. This is what I would use if the potatoes were sticking. It was roughed up playing with someone's "good" electric sharpener. Maybe 25 years ago.


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## captaincaed (Sep 27, 2021)

I'm going to add something interesting to this thread in a week or two... Stay tuned


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## ian (Sep 27, 2021)

Tease!


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## Nickodemos (Sep 27, 2021)

Brian Weekley said:


> In my recent Naughty Schoolboy Great Potato Takeda Slapdown the one Takeda that was missing from my test was the Takeda Nakiri ... or as some people call it a “vegetable cleaver”. It was one of the few Classic AS series Takeda’s that I didn’t have in my collection. As luck would have it Brontes decided to part with his AS Series Takeda Nakiri and posted it on BST. About three milliseconds later (or so it seems) I pressed the buy it now button and it was mine.
> 
> When it arrived I gave it the thumbnail test for edge and touched it up on my gold compound strop. I peel a couple of large russet potatoes and commenced the “Naughty Schoolboy” test. The following pics record the results.
> 
> ...


That’s awesome! Can’t wait for mine to arrive! Fantastic thread by the way!


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## captaincaed (Sep 27, 2021)

ian said:


> Tease!


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## captaincaed (Sep 30, 2021)

Should be next week. A little tease in the meantime.


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## captaincaed (Sep 30, 2021)

OK. One more.


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## JayS20 (Sep 30, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> OK. One more.
> View attachment 145081


Was pretty sure from the first pic now I'm certain.
Nice, he's quite high on my list, should have just dropped into his books and told him in a year when I'm more cash fluent


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## captaincaed (Sep 30, 2021)

JayS20 said:


> Was pretty sure from the first pic now I'm certain.
> Nice, he's quite high on my list, should have just dropped into his books and told him in a year when I'm more cash fluent



Just from the first pic huh? Nice eye! One more tease?


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## Barmoley (Sep 30, 2021)

I like me some flexible tangs too, a very much forgotten feature of a chef knife, or so some claim


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## captaincaed (Sep 30, 2021)

I had no idea it was a feature! Is the wood flexi too?


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## Barmoley (Sep 30, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> I had no idea it was a feature! Is the wood flexi too?


You tell us once you receive the knife. It was a joke by the maker, pointing out how much distal tapper there was on the tang.


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## captaincaed (Oct 4, 2021)




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## Garm (Oct 4, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> View attachment 145707


Blue steel?

Love the shape of that handle btw!


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## captaincaed (Oct 4, 2021)




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## captaincaed (Oct 6, 2021)

The three on the right needed a flick. No others.


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## IsoJ (Oct 6, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> The three on the right needed a flick. No others.
> View attachment 145983


Local maker?


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## captaincaed (Oct 6, 2021)

IsoJ said:


> Local maker?


Yes indeed!


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## Jovidah (Oct 9, 2021)

Not to be pedantic, but if I was cutting enough potato slices to actually care about food release I'd just get a mandolin. 
Personally I mostly cut wedges or cubes. For cubes stickage in the first 2 cuts (basically making planks, then sticks) can be annoying but lately I've experimented with using draw cuts on those and it actually works fairly well. 
Other than that, avoid mirror polishes on your knives. It's worth considering degrading the polish on the blade just to make it less sticky. I think the blade finish is an often forgotten element of food release that plays a significant role.


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## ian (Oct 9, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> The three on the right needed a flick. No others.
> View attachment 145983



Dan Bidinger, yea? Who was it recently that I saw recently plugging his knives… @crockerculinary maybe? Performance above looks stellar. I feel like I have to be guarded about him since our last names are almost the same, but it looks like he knows his business!


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## brimmergj (Oct 9, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> avoid mirror polishes on your knives. It's worth considering degrading the polish on the blade just to make it less sticky.


I just got a Birgersson and everything sticks. So far I've used it once; for sausage, carrots and peppers, but they all stick. The mirrored blade road is pretty and it cuts far better than my other blades, but it needs a windshield wiper on the side.


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## Jville (Oct 9, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> Not to be pedantic, but if I was cutting enough potato slices to actually care about food release I'd just get a mandolin.
> Personally I mostly cut wedges or cubes. For cubes stickage in the first 2 cuts (basically making planks, then sticks) can be annoying but lately I've experimented with using draw cuts on those and it actually works fairly well.
> Other than that, avoid mirror polishes on your knives. It's worth considering degrading the polish on the blade just to make it less sticky. I think the blade finish is an often forgotten element of food release that plays a significant role.


Or you could just get a knife with good food release . I mean a mandoline is great for chips, but other than that no need for it. Also you can’t make all the cuts with it. Plus don’t you have more than one knife? It’s always funny to me when people on here have these knive collections but omit having a knife that excels a food release. I mean that’s their prerogative but


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## Jovidah (Oct 9, 2021)

Jville said:


> Or you could just get a knife with good food release . I mean a mandoline is great for chips, but other than that no need for it. Also you can’t make all the cuts with it. Plus don’t you have more than one knife? It’s always funny to me when people on here have these knive collections but omit having a knife that excels a food release. I mean that’s their prerogative but


Yeah but if you truly care for a bunch of thin slices, a mandolin will do it far faster and more consistent than even the most gifted knife user in the world, and at a low price too. Personally I never really use potato slices so it's not a big deal to me, but it feels backwards to look for a knife optimized at making potato slices. It's like looking for the best horse for your transport needs.
With food release, while I agree that having the really high stiction I had on some mirror finished stuff was counter-productive, most stickage short of that is frankly never much of a problem to me. Draw cuts fixes the problem on potatoes, and potatoes are the only product where I ever really noticed in the first place. 
I'm more than willing to try a knife optimized for better food release, but so far it has never been enough of a problem for me to make it a high priority.

When it comes to really sticky cheeses the solution is to either go for some specialist knife that's more hole than blade, or to just dip the blade in boiling water to essentially melt it through.


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## crockerculinary (Oct 9, 2021)

ian said:


> Dan Bidinger, yea? Who was it recently that I saw recently plugging his knives… @crockerculinary maybe? Performance above looks stellar. I feel like I have to be guarded about him since our last names are almost the same, but it looks like he knows his business!


 man Dan’s work is phenomenal. I did some testing for him on one of the O.G. B-grinds and an s-grind and was crazy impressed. Dan is putting in a lot of time and effort into figuring out the fine details and maximizing the effects of this grind. I am SUPER JEALOUS of @captaincaed for owning this knife, it’s one of my favorites of his and I wish it was mine. If y’all are interested, herr are some videos of one of my testing sessions where I do a bunch of potatoes and other stuff, and I think it demonstrates pretty well. I was actually plagued with mistakes (mine of course) trying to get this on film, so there were a lot of products I didn’t capture that did remarkably well too.


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## ian (Oct 9, 2021)

crockerculinary said:


> man Dan’s work is phenomenal. I did some testing for him on one of the O.G. B-grinds and an s-grind and was crazy impressed. Dan is putting in a lot of time and effort into figuring out the fine details and maximizing the effects of this grind. I am SUPER JEALOUS of @captaincaed for owning this knife, it’s one of my favorites of his and I wish it was mine. If y’all are interested, herr are some videos of one of my testing sessions where I do a bunch of potatoes and other stuff, and I think it demonstrates pretty well. I was actually plagued with mistakes (mine of course) trying to get this on film, so there were a lot of products I didn’t capture that did remarkably well too.




That is hella sexy.


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## captaincaed (Oct 9, 2021)

crockerculinary said:


> man Dan’s work is phenomenal. I did some testing for him on one of the O.G. B-grinds and an s-grind and was crazy impressed. Dan is putting in a lot of time and effort into figuring out the fine details and maximizing the effects of this grind. I am SUPER JEALOUS of @captaincaed for owning this knife, it’s one of my favorites of his and I wish it was mine. If y’all are interested, herr are some videos of one of my testing sessions where I do a bunch of potatoes and other stuff, and I think it demonstrates pretty well. I was actually plagued with mistakes (mine of course) trying to get this on film, so there were a lot of products I didn’t capture that did remarkably well too.




This is the video that made me call Dan, thank you Gabriel. If you're ever in the PNW, come by for a beer and some dinner prep


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## crockerculinary (Oct 10, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> This is the video that made me call Dan, thank you Gabriel. If you're ever in the PNW, come by for a beer and some dinner prep


Deal!


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 21, 2021)

Well this certainly answered my curiosities regarding Bidinger KnIves B grind. I actually have one on the way, and couldn’t be more excited.
@captaincaed is that the 240 Magnacut Dan had posted recently in his IG feed? Man that looks nice. Handle looks very smart and comfortable


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## cooktocut (Oct 21, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> The three on the right needed a flick. No others.
> View attachment 145983



Very nice knife! 

Any thoughts on the MagnaCut steel yet?


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## captaincaed (Oct 21, 2021)

marc4pt0 said:


> Well this certainly answered my curiosities regarding Bidinger KnIves B grind. I actually have one on the way, and couldn’t be more excited.
> @captaincaed is that the 240 Magnacut Dan had posted recently in his IG feed? Man that looks nice. Handle looks very smart and comfortable



Marc, I almost wrote you out of the blue last night. Making dinner, I thought "Dan's knives probably tick all of Marc's boxes, he should get one." This is the same from the recent feed, and the handle is very nice (the osage has gorgeous subtle grain close up). My first faceted western, so no basis to compare, but I will say I get 90% of the control of a true pinch grip using the smaller facets near the heel, but still keep hands out of denser, taller products like squash and get the full blade length for bigger jobs. Suuuper comfy and quite grippy.

I absolutely love it, it totally won my heart, even though it may not be everyone's flavor. One of the only knives out of more than 50 that's done it for me. I'd be happy to answer specific questions in a side bar. 



cooktocut said:


> Any thoughts on the MagnaCut steel yet?



I'm testing out the steel for durability. Three weeks of home dinners plus a couple flats of apples on poly boards for a cider pressing. Still cutting peppers and tomatoes with the OOTB edge, but hasn't had enough board time for me to say any more than that.


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 21, 2021)

@captaincaed I think you and I are close to being on, if not _exactly _on, the same page when it comes to western handle styles. And thanks for thinking of me!


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## captaincaed (Oct 21, 2021)

I think so too, your photo album was my gateway drug, couldn't be happier to part with a few Benjamins


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## Brian Weekley (Oct 24, 2021)

So … here we go again … the latest entry in the “Naughty Schoolboy” big potato slap down. Having spent most of the past six months focussed on TF’s I looked forward to adding a TF Nakiri to the growing family of TF’s in my kitchen. I found the one I wanted at District Cutlery and took advantage of DC’s notable “blade whisperer”, Ryan Swanson to liberate my new TF of the excess stainless steel cladding which was undoubtedly clogging its cutting arteries. I know I know … an expensive knife shouldn’t require tuning but there it is and besides it’s getting expensive shipping things back and forth over the longest undefended border in the world, and my arthritic fingers refused to take on the “tuning” job themselves. Enough with the words … let’s see some action!










Oh no! Not even good enough to be a “finalist” among my Takeda‘s and Catcheside … to say nothing of the mystery metal blade Captain C recently unleashed to capture the unqualified “Naughty Schoolboy” crown! Maybe it is just the wrong kind of potato … let’s drag out a sweet potato. 









Better, but there’s no Naughty Schoolboy in that pile of sweetness.

‘’What happened??? My TF arrived as probably the sharpest blade I’ve ever plunged effortlessly into a spud! I even dragged out a professional blade whisperer to seal the deal and ensure a win. Sorry folks that devil stiction raised its ugly head and iced the win. No soup for you!

I’ll keep trying … maybe the petty will do better?????


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## captaincaed (Oct 24, 2021)

I think Dan can do.even better believe it or not. He's tuning up the grind, hand sanding before adding the fuller to.keep the transition crisp. I may be back for round 2...


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## Brian Weekley (Nov 9, 2021)

Nope!












Took delivery of a NIB 165mm TF Denka nakiri today. Couldn’t wait to contribute to the slap down.

Not even close! The 195mm Maboroshi performed better. 

Very surprised.


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## Brian Weekley (Nov 13, 2021)

OK … so my new policy is that every knife that enters my kitchen has to make a contribution to the great Naughty Shoolboy slap down. Today’s victim … a new (to me) Gyuto by Michael Rader. 308gms, 268mm edge length and a nicely tapered blade starting at 5.23mm at the heel. It arrived more than acceptably sharp but to give this big boy the best chance I gave it a few strokes on a loaded strop.

No more waiting … here’s the results!















Not satisfied with a great performance on the potato, I threw in a sweet potato and an Asian sweet carrot for good measure.

To coin a phrase “this blade can keel“ … root vegetables!

Next up … there’s a few goodies on there way. Stay tuned.


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## captaincaed (Nov 14, 2021)

Michael's knives are an absolute pleasure to use. I'd love to find a brut de forge like that one


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## Brian Weekley (Nov 14, 2021)

I’m working on having a magnetic strip installed in my casket so I’m afraid mine is going with me. Sorry … but you can take some things with you!


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## captaincaed (Nov 14, 2021)

The pharohs did it, so can you! Forget the embalmed cats though, that's just weird...


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## Brian Weekley (Nov 14, 2021)

My cat will be so relieved …






She’s pretty certain she has more good years left than I do … though she will probably want to check my will!


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 3, 2021)

I have a couple more additions to the great potato slap down. Both come with great expectations. First up a sweet Gyuto from Master Smith Bill Burke. It’s a monosteel Gyuto from 52100 steel. Succulent and sharp. Here’s the results.












Pretty good but definitely a bit of stiction. Close to the top but no slap down winner here.


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 3, 2021)

Next up is a very sweet san Mai Gyuto from Steffens Toksvig. AS core and Swedish stainless cladding. Let’s see what you brought!












WOW … this puppy is a real surprise … scoring very close to the top few. Look at all those potato slices sitting there like naughty school boys. The big sadness … Steffen has moved on to more remunerative, greener pastures. No more TX blades for us!


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## new2brew (Dec 12, 2021)

I was following this thread, and Ian’s “food release, sticktion and grind” closely due to some unexpected major sticktion I ran into prepairing Thanksgiving dinner…I saw Brian Weekley’s Tuscan Sausage and Potato soup and decided to make it. Simple, but delicious. I have made it several times. Now to the point: I had picked up a Toshihiro Wakui kurouchi Nashiji b#2. For the heck of it I started cutting the potatoes as I had seen captaincaed do in his video. To my surprise… no sticktion. I don’t know if it was the type of potato ( russet) or the size ( medium) but I thought I would mention it. I have always expected potatoes to stick. Some knives more than others, but this one (Wakui) not at all. I don’t feel qualified to recommend anything to you guys, I’m just a home cook who reads this forum and has bought too many knives, but I thought I would pass this along with my thanks to KKF for all the info and recommendations i have gotten from you. And to Brian for the recipe.


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 12, 2021)

There is no magic to this … nor to me at least is there any certainty that one knife will be better than another. For consistency I always use russet potatoes.

I too love the Tuscan sausage and potato soup. True comfort food. A while back I decided to add a can of corn niblets to the soup close to the end (don’t want to overcook the niblets and make them tough). I found it a real nice addition to the soup. Gave it a little sweetness and crunch. Try it … you may like it.


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## new2brew (Dec 12, 2021)

Thanks! Growing up and living near the Amish, having corn in my soup ( chicken corn soup) is not foreign. Good idea! I will try it.


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## captaincaed (Dec 12, 2021)

Wakui seems to be solid, especially the KU version. It's similar (in my eyes) to another line called Kochi, which is also a stellar performer in potatoes.


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 8, 2022)

Latest entry in the Naughty Schoolboy great potato slap down is a sweet Gyuto by Isasmedjan. A 2C63 core provides the chopping power with a nice damascus cladding from wrought iron and 15N20 steel. Now for the slap down …












Pretty amazing and somewhat unexpected results. It’s a substantial knife which one wouldn’t expect such great results … among the best I’ve tested. Goes to show that Jonas knows his stuff and delivers a top quality forge.

And now the promised choil shot.


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## sansho (Jan 8, 2022)

thanks for this thread. very useful demos. keep em coming


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## gcsquared (Jan 8, 2022)

Brian Weekley said:


> Goes to show that Jonas knows his stuff and delivers a top quality forge.



Thanks! Super interesting. Can you show us a pic of the choil? Presumably a heavy convex grind?


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 8, 2022)

I must confess to taking terrible choil shots, however I will add one in the morning when the light is better.


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 9, 2022)

I love winter … mostly because its when I make my favourite dishes. It seems many of my favourites include potatoes and ridiculous quantities of cheese. What better than my version of scalloped potatoes to contribute another entry to the great potato slap down. This time the knifey victim is a new (to me) Gyuto from Halcyon Forge. I had relatively modest expectations for its performance due to the smooth polished nature of the blade. With a stainless clad, Aogami Super core, it is truly gorgeous but I’ve been forming a theory that polished blades don’t perform well in the slap down. Be that as it may the rules of my kitchen are the rules and every knife that arrives in my kitchen must go through the Trial By Potato … no exceptions!

Will the potato slices fall silently like “Naughty Schoolboys”?

The pics tell the story.















This time I embarrassed myself by including a choil shot featuring my reasonably clean fingers … note to self … look into a professional manicure before attempting further choil shots. 

The result … well it wasn’t a slap down winner, but it did perform in the top 20% of knives tested. You know what … that’s OK! The knife is so gorgeous that I’m inclined to overlook a slight slip in performance. As with women … sometimes being gorgeous is grounds to overlook a slight decline in performance.


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## captaincaed (Jan 13, 2022)

I’m starting another thread, but for posterity…


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## captaincaed (Jan 20, 2022)

Just so good


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 28, 2022)

I have to admit to being a long time fan of the work of knife maker Alex Horn. At the DCI event last November I couldn’t resist the purchase of one of his entries in the invitational. The details are in my “New Knives” post but this thread is about performance.

Do we have a new “Naughty Schoolboy” winner?

The pics tell the story … behold!

















The simple answer … YES! YES! YES!

Hands down the best potato chopper I’ve tested … and a gorgeous blade as well.

Don’t have a Knife by Alex Horn? You truly don’t know what you’re missing.

I‘ll post a choil shot tomorrow when I have enough light to take a decent picture.


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## captaincaed (Jan 28, 2022)

Don't need no stinking fancy grind!


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## Brian Weekley (Feb 20, 2022)

Looks like I’ve been falling a bit behind on my great potato Slapdown entries. This time it’s a 248mm Gyuto from Halcyon Forge. Wrought iron clad, 1.2519 core, 218gms. Now for the results.












And the choil …






As expected another great performer from HF. Not capable of displacing my winner from Alex Horn but a solid 8 out of 10. Sweet!


----------



## MontezumaBoy (Feb 20, 2022)

Love this ... Halcyon really really top notch blade ... will check out Alex (& others) but Joe really does great stuff ... wonderful thread BTW ... as always - one day will get on the ferry from PA and 'trundle over' all the best ...


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## Brian Weekley (Feb 21, 2022)

One more before sleepy time. This one is from our new extraordinary knife maker Frederik Spare. It’s a monosteel Damascus Gyuto. Unknown steel, unknown handle material … absolutely gorgeous knife with A+ F&F. 237mm blade length, 55mm deep at the heel, blade Tapers from 4.25mm at the heel to 2.68mm mid blade and 1.8mm 1” from the tip.

Enough talk … to the spuds!














And the choil …







Well … no Slapdown winner here. That’s OK … sometimes it’s sufficient enough to be gorgeous to overlook some other issues. I wouldn’t take it to a potato chopping contest though.


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## captaincaed (Feb 21, 2022)

That HF is a gorgeous piece of work, and the wood on the handle is especially handsome as well. Always great to see that it performs just as good as it looks.


----------



## Brian Weekley (Mar 14, 2022)

I know there is always the temptation to look at a fancy knife and say “very pretty … but how does it cut?”

I got my chance today to put a new Gyuto fromd David Lisch that came my way.

Here’s the results …












Amazing … ranking with the very best this Lisch motored through the spud without requiring a single finger flip to assist. How about a sweet potato?






Not quite as good a performer … many finger flip assists required … but still very credible.

A pic of the choil …






Definitely not just another pretty face … this knife can chop with the best of them.


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## Bico Doce (Mar 15, 2022)

Here’s my new Bazes taking on a potato. This one is a 240, Sanjo style thick spine and a full convex grind, very thin BTE. Almost looks like a gyutohiki with the lower height of the blade. Pretty good food release, probably could have done better with an adjustment to the technique 





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## captaincaed (Mar 16, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Here’s my new Bazes taking on a potato. This one is a 240, Sanjo style thick spine and a full convex grind, very thin BTE. Almost looks like a gyutohiki with the lower height of the blade. Pretty good food release, probably could have done better with an adjustment to the technique
> 
> View attachment 170021


The concavity at the heel is more pronounced on mine. Really love that knife.


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## Delat (Mar 17, 2022)

Trying out my new Neil Ayling s-grind for the first time. Nice performance on both potatoes and onions.




Your browser is not able to display this video.








Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Ironn5 (May 14, 2022)

Brian Weekley said:


> And the Chinese cleaver ...
> 
> View attachment 66841
> View attachment 66842
> ...


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## Brian Weekley (May 14, 2022)

So there! Case closed for good! Everybody can just go home!

Wait … didn’t I have ten whole fingers before I started this round!

MAMA!!!!!!!


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## Brian Weekley (May 30, 2022)

Potato killer …

Newham Heirloom Damasteel Damascus …












I’ll try and add a video soon to prove that the hands down winner has arrived.


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## Bico Doce (May 30, 2022)

Brian Weekley said:


> Potato killer …
> 
> Newham Heirloom Damasteel Damascus …
> 
> ...


That is awesome Brian! So this one dethroned your Alex Horn? Would you mind giving the top 5 of your slapdown results?


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## Brian Weekley (May 30, 2022)

It’s hard to believe … but there it is!

The common element to both knives is the Damasteel. Is there a message there?

The Newham Heirloom blade literally fell through the potato. Virtually no effort required. Blade weight perhaps? Grind? Magic!!! ???

Top five … the Newham and Horn are definitely on top. I’ll have to think about the remaining three.


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## captaincaed (May 30, 2022)

I'm glad that one went to someone who'll appreciate it. Not much makes me check my bank account when I haven't budgeted anymore, but that one did.


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## tostadas (Jul 13, 2022)

First Impressions of my Takeda Cleaver 210x110mm, 330g

This guy redefined my definition of food release. As with all of my knives, I took a bunch of measurements to get an initial idea of the geometry. Thicknesses measured at increments along the initial 10mm or so behind the edge suggested to me that this thing would wedge like crazy.

But in actual use, it was a blast to play with. The photo below is of some daikon radish. It didn't move one bit off the board while cutting. I also did a couple large onions which it flew through with ease. The last product I had was a few lbs of really hard carrots. Had this knife been lighter, like Takeda 240mm gyuto that weighs around 150g, I could see that it might want to wedge. However, this cleaver, having over double the mass of that, went through with zero hesitation. It did BRAAPPP the carrots rather than silently slay them, but that was expected. 

The whole time, I had the soundtrack playing in the back of my head: * "Move b**ch, get out the way!" * Very fun knife. Well worth the price of entry.


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## Brian Weekley (Jul 13, 2022)

I love my big Takeda cleaver too … and it has another benefit of being perfect for close combat in a Zombie Apocalypse!


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## Dan- (Jul 13, 2022)

Have you guys tried the same thing julienning ginger? I understand this thread is about potatoes and I suppose daikon, but just curious.


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## captaincaed (Jul 13, 2022)

Julienne ginger would climb a Teflon pan like Spiderman.


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## tostadas (Jul 13, 2022)

Dan- said:


> Have you guys tried the same thing julienning ginger? I understand this thread is about potatoes and I suppose daikon, but just curious.


I found rough highly textured kurouchi works very well to release this. My Fellipi cleaver is really nice for that.


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## Xunzi (Jul 16, 2022)

So is there any science behind food release or is this entirely based on anecdotes?


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## Bico Doce (Jul 16, 2022)

Xunzi said:


> So is there any science behind food release or is this entirely based on anecdotes?


There are a bunch of other threads that endeavor to answer which factors influence food release. Here’s a recent one

Convexity, flatness, stiction and food release


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## captaincaed (Dec 20, 2022)

I heard a rumor that someone is bringing three strong pieces to the table very soon…


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 28, 2022)

Well … it’s time!

The slap down will start soon. But first let’s look at the lineup. Specifically selected as knives designed to laugh at sticky potatoes.

In no particular order.

1. B Grind Bidinger Gyuto by Dan Bidinger
2. Hook grind Gyuto by Ben Kamon
3. Milled C Grind tall Nakiri by Oliver Martens

and … to defend its past performance …

4. An award winning Heirloom Grade Damasteel Gyuto by Will Newham.

Some pics … first up the gyutos by Dan Bidinger and Ben Kamon …






Followed by respective choil shots for each.

Bidinger Gyuto …






Kamon Gyuto.






Pics of the Newham Damasteel Gyuto and the Martens Nakiri.






And the choil shots. Newham‘s Gyuto first.






And Martens C Grind Nakiri …






And finally the victims. Eight russet potatoes.






The plan …

Two cuts of each knife of two potatoes. The first will be a potato chip slice across the potato. The second a fish and chip slice along the length of the potato.

The “winner” will be clear.

When … New Years day in North America … January 1st.

Don’t miss the Naughty Schoolboy slap down event of events.

One winner takes all the glory.


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## tostadas (Dec 28, 2022)

Brian Weekley said:


> Well … it’s time!
> 
> The slap down will start soon. But first let’s look at the lineup. Specifically selected as knives designed to laugh at sticky potatoes.
> 
> ...


Losers get posted to BST right?


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## BillHanna (Dec 28, 2022)

tostadas said:


> Losers get posted to BST right?


Who are you “rooting” for?


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## Brian Weekley (Dec 28, 2022)

I’m pretty certain that Las Vegas already has a betting line on the contestants. I’m also of a mind that I should throw in a great big sweet potato into the mix.


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## Delat (Dec 28, 2022)

Brian Weekley said:


> I’m pretty certain that Las Vegas already has a betting line on the contestants. I’m also of a mind that I should throw in a great big sweet potato into the mix.



Definitely. Food release on soft spuds is great and all, but I want to see if those bad boys wedge on a thick sweet potato.


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 1, 2023)

I decided to add some sweet potatoes to the slap down.

I had planned to do the testing today but family demands means I must postpone the slap down to Tuesday.

Stay tuned … it WILL happen.


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## Justinv (Jan 1, 2023)

Its new years. Make a drinking game of it. Each stuck slice requires a beer before the next attempt!


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## Dan- (Jan 2, 2023)

Justinv said:


> Its new years. Make a drinking game of it. Each stuck slice requires a beer before the next attempt!


Five finger filet!


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 4, 2023)

Well … it’s here!

A few days delayed resulting from the need to provide child minding (playing with sharp things forbidden). First up is a milled nakiri/cleaver by Oliver Martens. A pic for a reminder.






First up … the potato slices or chips …





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Followed by the long fries …





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Let the videos speak for themselves … I’ll save my comments for the wrap-up.


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 4, 2023)

Next up is Will Newhams amazing Heirloom Series damasteel Gyuto.

A couple of pics …









First the fries …





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Followed by the slices …






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## Brian Weekley (Jan 4, 2023)

Moving on to Ben Kamon’s Hook Grind

A pic …






Then some slices … 





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and some chips or fries …





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## Brian Weekley (Jan 5, 2023)

And wrapping up the contestants … Dan Bidinger’s B Grind Gyuto …

Unfortunately a technical error on the part of the cameraman (I forgot to turn the camera on) means the videos of Dans B Grind will have to await tomorrow and new potatoes. I also put the contestants to work on a couple of sweet potatoes but we might as well leave that and the declaration of results and winners until tomorrow too.

In the interim … comment away.

Cheers all!


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## captaincaed (Jan 5, 2023)

C’mon camera man!


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## Duukt (Jan 5, 2023)

Classic cameraman hijinks!


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 5, 2023)

Dans B Grind …

First a pic …







Than some slicy slicy action …





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And some fries …





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## Brian Weekley (Jan 5, 2023)

Now let’s have a look at how our contestants performed with a sweet potato.

This time I applied the knives to half a large sweet potato.

First up the Martens …





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Followed by the Newham …





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New sweet potato … first up the Kamon Hook Grind …





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and last up … Dan’s B Grind …





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And that’s it … onward to the analysis! Have you picked winners yet?


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 5, 2023)

I have to say that there are no losers in this contest. All four knives were sterling performers and will satisfy the most demanding users. They are definitely the best of the best in dealing with potatoes. Each of the knives exhibited some degree of stiction … probably the result of my technique. In all cases the “sticking” cleared itself quickly without the need for a “dreaded” finger flip. What surprised me a bit was the difference in force required to make the cut. The Martens and Newham clearly required more force to make the cut in both the case of the russet potatoes and sweet potatoes. The Kamon Hook Grind and B Grind Bidinger were clearly superior to the other two in this regard. They literally “fell through” the potatoes. The Martens required the most force to make the cut following the Newham. Interestingly the Newham seemed to lock third place in the combat, despite the fact that it was the only knife of the four that didn’t feature a special “low stiction” grind. I think that is partially due to how Will Newham finished the blade. His method left a texture to the blade which may also be a feature of this Damasteel … Fafnir, I believe.

One feature that definitely played a part in the ultimate rankings was the blade length. Being a nakiri/cleaver I found the Martens to be slightly too short for the large russet and sweet potatoes I was using. I chose the shorter if the potatoes I had to accommodate this shortfall. I admit to using the largest potatoes I could find for the slap down. Normal material wouldn’t present a problem. The other three knives were 240mm gyutos and had no problem handling the material.

Where I had problems differentiating the knives was with the top two performers … the Kamon Hook Grind and Dan Bidinger’s B Grind. They were both amazing performers and I honestly think that different people could come to different rankings on the two depending on the day. For me … in this test, the Kamon very slightly exhibited less stiction. The Bidinger required slightly less force to make the cut. Both knives were equally and amazingly pleasing in hand. They cut almost without me having to think about them. They just fell through the material including the more substantial sweet potato.

For me … on this day I give the slight edge to Dan Bidinger’s B Grind. I declare the B Grind the all out slap down champion.

So here it is … From first and best to fourth and almost best.

1. Dan Bidinger’s B Grind Gyuto.

2. Ben Kamon’s Hook Grind Gyuto.



3. Will Newham’s Heirloom Series Damasteel Gyuto.

4. Oliver Martens Milled Grind Nakiri/Cleaver. 

Cheers all!


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## DrD23 (Jan 5, 2023)

I think for the sweet potatoes the B-grind and Newham videos are mixed up, but thank you! very entertaining and something I was looking forward to


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 6, 2023)

DrD23 said:


> I think for the sweet potatoes the B-grind and Newham videos are mixed up, but thank you! very entertaining and something I was looking forward to



You are correct … I did mix them up.

The error is corrected now and it’s worth going back and watching how Dan’s B Grind simply demolishes the big sweet potato. Not a trace of sticking or wedging. In hand the blade simply fell through the material. I suspect it’s due to the application of some Sequim Secret Sauce. Yum!


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