# Hiromoto honyaki gyuto impression?



## ynot1985 (Dec 23, 2015)

Hi has anyone used this before?

Any pro/cons?

Haven't seen any reviews online and would like to know more.. Thanks


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## aboynamedsuita (Dec 23, 2015)

There are a number of members who use/own, I believe supersayan3 like them a lot


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## ynot1985 (Dec 23, 2015)

It caught attention cause it's so cheap for a carbon honyaki ...sometimes I wonder if it's not a knife that is raved on here by many people, does that mean it's bad?


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## inzite (Dec 23, 2015)

i dont have the gyuto but have the honyaki santoku. I think hiromoto in general are not focused on the fit and finish, so as long as that is not a top requirement I believe they are solid. Loving my santoku so far.


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## ynot1985 (Dec 23, 2015)

As long as performance is good and cuts well.. Which is define as fit?


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## inzite (Dec 23, 2015)

ynot1985 said:


> As long as performance is good and cuts well.. Which is define as fit?



perhaps. mine cuts well and easy to sharpen and holds edge good enough for me.


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## aboynamedsuita (Dec 23, 2015)

ynot1985 said:


> As long as performance is good and cuts well.. Which is define as fit?



Fit and finish (F&F) could describe things including but not limited to handle scales/tang being flush with no gaps, roughness of choil, errant grind marks; overall aesthetics that aren't necessarily related to performance. My Sukenari honyaki Gyuto has a higher OOTB F&F than my Watanabe honyaki gyuto, but significantly improved the Watanabe by removing the grind marks on the emoto & choil, polished it up nicely


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## spoiledbroth (Dec 23, 2015)

there are a number of glowing comments around about the bolsterless knife. supposed to be good value for money.


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## ynot1985 (Dec 23, 2015)

Yeah the bolster less ones are 160 cheaper at the moment ..


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## spoiledbroth (Dec 23, 2015)

Koki has a good return policy too, for what it's worth.


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## ynot1985 (Dec 24, 2015)

tjangula said:


> Fit and finish (F&F) could describe things including but not limited to handle scales/tang being flush with no gaps, roughness of choil, errant grind marks; overall aesthetics that aren't necessarily related to performance. My Sukenari honyaki Gyuto has a higher OOTB F&F than my Watanabe honyaki gyuto, but significantly improved the Watanabe by removing the grind marks on the emoto & choil, polished it up nicely



Actually tjangula, what's your impression of the Sukenari Honyaki?


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## aboynamedsuita (Dec 25, 2015)

ynot1985 said:


> Actually tjangula, what's your impression of the Sukenari Honyaki?



I like it but haven't used for awhile (spring/summer) as I took the handle off to do some polsihing, now I have the custom handle so should get back to it. There is at least one other member here who has one and really likes it, said in a thread in the same league as his shig and Carter.

I've had three Sukenari knives: the zdp-189 and AS (both stainless Damascus clad) gyutos, as well as the Shirogami#1 honyaki gyuto; I liked the others but when it came time to free up some funds, the honyaki is the one that stayed put


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## ynot1985 (Dec 25, 2015)

Thanks or the info Tjangula.. I think it will be on my wishlist then.. I wanted the shig Kitaeji from Japan wood worker but it became too problematic to get into Australia with the freight cost and import duties, I decided to use the expense else where.. this could be it

decided with the Hiromoto first and when i get the hang of the honyaki, I will get the Sukenari one when I visit Seki next year and see if I can drop by Koki's office to pick it up


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## aboynamedsuita (Dec 25, 2015)

Probably a good idea to wait now, not sure if JCK Xmas sale is still going.


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## El Pescador (Dec 25, 2015)

Love both my 240mm gyuto and sujihiki. Look generic. The fit and finish is really excellent. Not what I was expecting from a Hiromoto.


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## supersayan3 (Dec 25, 2015)

The Sukenari is a little strange knife, meaning, the mirror polish, does not have the same standards all the time, sometimes, even among the two sides of the same blade. Yet, even when it is not perfect(I suppose, it must depend on the batches and the technician), it is still better than the Mizuno gyuto mirror finish level, which has stable quality. Sukenari also has half rounded spine and choil compared to Mizuno that is between eased and half rounded, but the only knife that I have with fully rounded spine(and by far in every detail best fit and finish is Hiromoto Yo Gyuto 30cm. Yes, that knife is the fit and finish champion.

I have used the Sukenaris very little, only at home, this will be their year. So far, by the ootb edge, which is decent, they cut great.
White 1 has more aggressive cutting properties than White 2(blue 2 as well), which makes me wonder why such a fever for Kato and Shigefusa( I never had one, or touched one -that's why I wonder - Idont mean to belittle the knives, still, they are cladded white 2).
As I read, here in the forums by someone, cladded knives are like wearing a condom( I am very satisfied with many cladded knives, but I agree with that statement, and I will add that monosteel feels natural, and Honyaki feels on viagra).

The strange thing about Sukenari Honyaki Gyutos, is that at all lengths, it is almost the same knife, but longer or shorter.
By that I mean: The Sukenari Honyaki Gyuto 27cm may be the exact same profile with the Masamoto KS 24cm gyuto(they are both around 255mm cutting edge). The tip is a little different though.
The gyuto 24cm Sukenari, is identical in everything with the 27cm, just shorter, and the same applies for the 21 cm.
That means that the 21cm is wide for a 21cm, and that the 27cm is narrow for a 27cm.
But they are all great and very beautiful!!! Also White 1!!! This is the most important.
And compared to Fujiwaras White 1, cheaper and mirror Honyaki, not rustique cladding, more expensive.

One more thing that I have to mention, is the profile comparison, between Sukenari and Mizuno 24cm gyutos.
Mizuno is thicker in the spine, taller and heavier.
Yet, the shape of the lower 50% part of the blade, over the edge, are almost identical.
The tip is at the exactly same height, the cutting edge is the same, all the edge profile is the same, with the exception of the 2 cm curve under the tip. the curve there at 1-2cm is a little different. So practically, they have the same profile, with Mizuno having extra cm in height. Over the edge, both are very thin with Sukenari being a very little thinner, and having edge out of the box.

About Hiromotos, I have written everything on previous posts.
I cant tell about the sujihiki, I havent used it yet, but out of the box it had worse edge than the gyuto.
I love the metal bolster gyuto version(I cant talk about the other version) the best western knife ever.
I have managed to mirror polish it evenly all over the blade, up to a degree, big upgrade.
I love mirror polish finishes.
I love as well the santoku with the more gyuto-ish profile.


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## ynot1985 (Dec 25, 2015)

supersayan3 said:


> The Sukenari is a little strange knife, meaning, the mirror polish, does not have the same standards all the time, sometimes, even among the two sides of the same blade. Yet, even when it is not perfect(I suppose, it must depend on the batches and the technician), it is still better than the Mizuno gyuto mirror finish level, which has stable quality. Sukenari also has half rounded spine and choil compared to Mizuno that is between eased and half rounded, but the only knife that I have with fully rounded spine(and by far in every detail best fit and finish is Hiromoto Yo Gyuto 30cm. Yes, that knife is the fit and finish champion.
> 
> I have used the Sukenaris very little, only at home, this will be their year. So far, by the ootb edge, which is decent, they cut great.
> White 1 has more aggressive cutting properties than White 2(blue 2 as well), which makes me wonder why such a fever for Kato and Shigefusa( I never had one, or touched one -that's why I wonder - Idont mean to belittle the knives, still, they are cladded white 2).
> ...




Thanks for the lengthy write up SuperSaiyan... I went with the non bolster version as Koki said the they are the same blade except one has the bolster and the other hasn't. The price difference was $160 so I went for the cheaper one. Let's hope it's as good as the one with the bolster


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## supersayan3 (Dec 25, 2015)

Actually, I am thinking of getting one as well 

I have to mention, that I dont have a KS 240mm(i will get one at some point), But based on dimensions and the fact that first generation Sukenari used to work for Masamoto, makes me think that Sukenari Honyaki 27cm and Masamoto KS 24cm, might be almost identical profiles.


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## supersayan3 (Dec 25, 2015)

I forgot to mention about the Sukenari hamon. It is very unique, very different-original compared to all others, and the master who does the hamon, has really mastered his art, since below the main hamon pattern, the hamon has some...hamon dots?, I dont know how to describe it, look at photos on internet to understand what I am trying to say. For sure it takes special skill to predict the hamon pattern result in the final product


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## spoiledbroth (Dec 25, 2015)

would love to see some pics of the bolster honyaki knives... especially the suji! but also the gyuto the 270 on JCK looks like it has just about a perfect grind on it.


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## supersayan3 (Dec 25, 2015)

I cant tell about the gyuto 27cm, I never had one.
I fell in love with 24cm at first touch, and after getting it in the kitchen, I got myself a second.

Also my Iphone's camera, after repeated falls these days, is not working properly anymore, but if you pm me your e-mail, I can send you some older ones


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## RobinW (Dec 25, 2015)

I just got my bolster less honyaki back from wa-conversion done by robin Dalman.... It is a brilliant knife now &#128515;


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## supersayan3 (Dec 25, 2015)

What did you do to it? 

Mind sharing some pictures?


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## aboynamedsuita (Dec 25, 2015)

RobinW said:


> I just got my bolster less honyaki back from wa-conversion done by robin Dalman.... It is a brilliant knife now [emoji2]



I thought that these would be good candidates for handle reassignment surgery.


As for Sukenari
I agree about the Hamon, has the wavy pattern but the dots as well. I also read that Sukenari made knives for other brands, do you recall where you came across this information SS3? Koki also indicates that Sukenari does honyaki well.

One thing though I'm not 100% on is the core steel of Shigefusa. They keep it secret, so although it may be (similar to) white #2, I recall its marketed as spicy Swedish steel and have also read it's similar to tamahagane.


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## spoiledbroth (Dec 26, 2015)

I was surfing around the Sukenari website and it appears that they make limited runs for customers to spec... Hard to say because the JP-EN translation is poor. They have hap40 gyutos for sale atm.


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## Asteger (Dec 26, 2015)

RobinW said:


> I just got my bolster less honyaki back from wa-conversion done by robin Dalman.... It is a brilliant knife now &#128515;



A very good idea I hadn't thought of


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## inzite (Dec 26, 2015)

spoiledbroth said:


> I was surfing around the Sukenari website and it appears that they make limited runs for customers to spec... Hard to say because the JP-EN translation is poor. They have hap40 gyutos for sale atm.



I think the HAP40 are sold out since nov.
"2015.11.7&#12288;&#22770;&#12426;&#20999;&#12428;&#12414;&#12375;&#12383;"


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## supersayan3 (Dec 26, 2015)

tjangula said:


> I also read that Sukenari made knives for other brands, do you recall where you came across this information SS3?



I never said such a thing. I dont know, first time I hear about it


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## spoiledbroth (Dec 26, 2015)

inzite said:


> I think the HAP40 are sold out since nov.
> "2015.11.7&#12288;&#22770;&#12426;&#20999;&#12428;&#12414;&#12375;&#12383;"



Ohh, I wasn't sure because there was a button to purchase and a price- but I didn't click through. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't ship internationally.


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## aboynamedsuita (Dec 27, 2015)

tjangula said:


> I also read that Sukenari made knives for other brands, do you recall where you came across this information SS3?





supersayan3 said:


> I never said such a thing. I dont know, first time I hear about it





supersayan3 said:


> Actually, I am thinking of getting one as well
> 
> I have to mention, that I dont have a KS 240mm(i will get one at some point), But based on dimensions and the fact that first generation Sukenari used to work for Masamoto, makes me think that Sukenari Honyaki 27cm and Masamoto KS 24cm, might be almost identical profiles.



Sorry I read your previous comment wrong. I do recall seeing that Sukenari made knife for other brands but it was easily over a year ago so don't remember exactly where


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## supersayan3 (Jan 4, 2016)

I forgot to mention that the White steel in Sukenari is the cleanest carbon steel I own, if discolouring red onions is a criterion. Even from the first use, it never discolors red onions.


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## JLaz (Jan 4, 2016)

I would like to second the White Steel Sukenari.

I just received my 240mm Honyaki Gyuto and cleaned off the coating with acetone. Cut some onions and no discoloration. Very minute patina on the blade but no dark colored onions to be seen.


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## aboynamedsuita (Jan 4, 2016)

I found the Sukenari honyaki patina comes in "frosty" white/grey as opposed to dark like on a Misono Swedish Steel. The core steel in the mirror polished AS gyuto I had took the coolest combination of cobalt blue, copper, etc.


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## panda (Jan 16, 2019)

I recently picked up a used bolsterless 240 gyuto. Highly unfinished knife but has potential. It is pretty thin stock with my guess is 2.5mm spine, it is hella light and the stock handle is quite good very grippy. Spine and choil were sharp so I took an atoma to it. Profile is solid, could use a slight tweak in the middle. 

The edge it came with was difficult to deburr but once I removed the old fatigued steel the edge felt great on stones. Thinning it however was not pleasant as you would expect from a honyaki.

After thinning, forced a hot vinegar patina and then lightly polished with slurry from an aizu. 

This was just initial work so I didn't spend too much time on it or get aggressive with it. That being said, in it's current state the edge properties are nice, grind needs further adjusting.

Will update once I've put some mileage on this thing..


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## panda (Jan 16, 2019)




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## Anton (Jan 16, 2019)

panda said:


> View attachment 46976
> View attachment 46977
> View attachment 46978
> View attachment 46979
> ...


good find, thin honyaki' are not very common - what's the other one ?


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## panda (Jan 16, 2019)

yoshihiro ginsanko monosteel, awesome beater but i put a TON of work into it.


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## lemeneid (Jan 17, 2019)

I just got one with bolster off a retiring chef for $300. This is probably going to be the cheapest honyaki I’ll ever own. Will probably need some massive restoration with sandpaper, stones and uchi powder. Hope this knife performs better after restoring


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## panda (Jan 17, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> I just got one with bolster off a retiring chef for $300. This is probably going to be the cheapest honyaki I’ll ever own. Will probably need some massive restoration with sandpaper, stones and uchi powder. Hope this knife performs better after restoring


It needs a whole lot of love


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## panda (Jan 17, 2019)

day 1 of full use:
i wasnt happy with the fresh off the stones edge so i did dry strops on same stone i finished on(aizu), then used felt pad to deburr repeatedly and now the edge is nice n crispy. turns out this heat treat is weird in that it's a biatch to deburr.
the current grind is out of the ordinary in that i have the right face more thinned flat and left face more convexed and sharpened at a more obtuse angle. this sounds strange but for thin blades i think it cuts better this way and the results hold true. this is only the second laser that i am happy with in that it is stiff and not flexy whimpy feeling at all. next, the stock handle is really really good. i originally planned to convert it to wa instead of western but i've since nixed that idea since i enjoy the grip of it in stock form. reactivity wants to take on mostly blue and gray hues and it smells strongly of iron.





What I don't like is those oem vertical grinding marks, looks so cheap lol


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## Froztitanz (Jan 17, 2019)

That is a gorgeous patina for the first day of use!


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