# another stone cracked....this time arashiyama 6000



## aser (Mar 12, 2014)

Not sure why I'm having such bad luck w/ stones cracking...........first the synthetic aoto, now this.

Perhaps this stone hasn't been babied as much, it gets left at work. It's stored on a half sheet tray lined w/ a towel, along w/ my dmt xxc and leather strop. I use it about twice a week at work for a 5-10 min touchup. It gets flattened after each use, dried w/ a towel, then left on the sheet tray w/ towel underneath to dry.

Any suggestions in the 6000 range? I've used a Chosera 5000 and a Suehiro 5000 before, def prefer the former over the latter. The other option is the Geeshin 6000 splash & go.

I would prefer a splash & go, I would still soak it for 5 mins before use as I found all splash and go's don't perform that well w/o a short soak, no matter what the manufacturer says.

Knives I use it with, stainless, semi-stainless, sk-4, white 2, blue 2.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## labor of love (Mar 12, 2014)

I used to use this 6k, sigma power and it cut fast enough, but it was very hard and didnt produce any mud. http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store...oduct_info&cPath=335_404_403&products_id=1494
But if you prefer splash and go, i think chosera and gesshin 6k are your best bets. We dont hear enough about gessh 6k, i bet its superb.


----------



## Dave Martell (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm curious, was this stone mounted to a base?


----------



## ThEoRy (Mar 12, 2014)

labor of love said:


> I used to use this 6k, sigma power and it cut fast enough, but it was very hard and didnt produce any mud. http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store...oduct_info&cPath=335_404_403&products_id=1494
> But if you prefer splash and go, i think chosera and gesshin 6k are your best bets. We dont hear enough about gessh 6k, i bet its superb.



I have the Gesshin 6k splash and go at work though I do leave mine permasoaking. It cuts fast enough and has a dense feeling with a creamy slurry. Not muddy like the rika 5k but you can work it up a bit, however it dishes slower than the rika as well. It leaves a pretty polished edge with an appropriate tooth. Good for stopping Gyuto at, uraoshi sharpening and deba primary edge finishing or yanagiba primary edge pre-polishing. Reason I say primary edge only is I don't like the high shine it puts on the blade road. I have to be careful not to slip up and scuff the blade road and ruin my dark finish. Works well on all types of knives and steels that I've thrown at it, single, double, stainless, carbon. In the end, I feel however maybe splash and go's are just not for me. As a personal preference I just like the feel and feedback provided by permasoakers over the dense, rubbery splashers. YMMV


----------



## labor of love (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks for the comments on gessh 6k. I was definitely fishing for some user feedback.


----------



## aser (Mar 12, 2014)

No it wasn't mounted to a base, there have been a few times I've left it soaking for a day or so out of lazyness. Maybe 4-5 times max over the course of 3 yrs. Maybe that did it over time?

I def prefer the feel of soakers but they're not very practical for work storage. I always soaked my Arashiyama for at least 5-10 mins before each use. You waste too much time constantly re-splashing water on the stone if you don't soak.

The Arashiyama felt a bit dead to me in feedback.


----------



## Matus (Mar 13, 2014)

You can not go wrong the Gesshing 6000. The feel is great, it cuts fast for its grit and dishing is minimal. After (home use) putting some 50 knives through it for finishing (no wide bevels) I can not see any dishing at all.


----------



## labor of love (Mar 13, 2014)

Wow. Thats some serious praise.


----------



## erikz (Mar 13, 2014)

Good option also is the Shapton Pro 5000. I use it and I like the feel of it. Good cutter, leaves an OK mirror finish and the feedback is more then OK.


----------



## pleue (Mar 13, 2014)

my shapton 2k just cracked for no reason..


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Mar 13, 2014)

I like the shapton pro 2K as a touch up stone.Just run a little water on it & your ready to go.


----------



## MowgFace (Mar 13, 2014)

Dave Martell said:


> I'm curious, was this stone mounted to a base?



Im curious dave, you have asked this before. Are the stones that are ususally mounted on a base (i.e. above mentioned stones Rika, Arashyama, etc) offered without bases due to demand? Or have they always been offered with or without?

I have been interested in the Rika a long time, and i would prefer the stone without a base, but if its going to compromise the integrity of the stone, i will rethink my choice.

Mowgs


----------



## Dave Martell (Mar 13, 2014)

MowgFace said:


> Im curious dave, you have asked this before. Are the stones that are ususally mounted on a base (i.e. above mentioned stones Rika, Arashyama, etc) offered without bases due to demand? Or have they always been offered with or without?
> 
> I have been interested in the Rika a long time, and i would prefer the stone without a base, but if its going to compromise the integrity of the stone, i will rethink my choice.
> 
> Mowgs




Certain stones are brought to market by their manufacturers with bases and other stones aren't. I always assumed that stones that came with bases (meaning more cost to produce & ship) were meant to have them for some reason. 

Over the years new retailers come along who get these traditionally base mounted stones in un-based versions. Some are asked to get them this way by their customers and others are looking to invent a niche to fill. I've long been concerned that these guys were getting themselves into trouble by selling these un-based stones.

I can't say that this stone (Arashiyama 6k) is prone to cracking without being mounted to a base because this is the first (I think) I've heard of breaking. I can say that there's un-mounted stones that do crack and break easily - Naniwa Choseras, Naniwa Snow White (AKA Pure White, Junpaku) 8k, Synthetic Aoto


----------



## MowgFace (Mar 13, 2014)

Thanks Dave! I think ill stick to a Suehiro Rika w/ a base!


----------



## JBroida (Mar 15, 2014)

i just responded to a customer e-mail with the following, which i though might be of interest for some people here as well...

Resinoid based stones respond to soaking and drying differently from ceramic, clay based, and magnesia based stones. Magnesia based stones, like the chocera, will crack when over-soaked due to magnesia (the binding agent) leaching out in the water. After a while, the stone looses structural stability. Clay based and ceramic stones do not have any cracking problems unless dropped (or sometimes when they are worn thin and you exert too much pressure in an unsupported section). Vitrified stones work in a similar way to the ceramic and clay based stones, but are often less firm and can break more easily when dropped and/or worn too thin. Resinoid based stones, like the gesshin 6000, arashiyama, kitayama, and even some of maxim's stones, respond to soaking differently. The soaking is actually not the issue at all. Soaking helps soften the stone, causing it to release more abrasive more quickly, improving tactile feedback, and helping create more mud. However, repeated soaking and drying, drying too quickly, or changes in humidity based on environment cause the stone to dry out unevenly. Because resinoid based stones are not as porous, air can not penetrate as quickly, nor can water escape in the same way. As water leaves the outer portion of the stone, the loss of mass causes the outside of the stone to shrink faster than the inside of the stone, which is the main cause of cracking with stones like this. Therefore, when it comes to resinoid based stones, you need to pick one of the following ways of dealing with them:
-soak permanently
-use as a splash and go stone
-soak and dry, but dry very carefully and slowly, while paying attention to general humidity


----------



## eshua (Mar 15, 2014)

Dropping some science.


----------



## JBroida (Mar 16, 2014)




----------



## Talim (Mar 16, 2014)

JBroida said:


> i just responded to a customer e-mail with the following, which i though might be of interest for some people here as well...
> 
> Resinoid based stones respond to soaking and drying differently from ceramic, clay based, and magnesia based stones. Magnesia based stones, like the chocera, will crack when over-soaked due to magnesia (the binding agent) leaching out in the water. After a while, the stone looses structural stability. Clay based and ceramic stones do not have any cracking problems unless dropped (or sometimes when they are worn thin and you exert too much pressure in an unsupported section). Vitrified stones work in a similar way to the ceramic and clay based stones, but are often less firm and can break more easily when dropped and/or worn too thin. Resinoid based stones, like the gesshin 6000, arashiyama, kitayama, and even some of maxim's stones, respond to soaking differently. The soaking is actually not the issue at all. Soaking helps soften the stone, causing it to release more abrasive more quickly, improving tactile feedback, and helping create more mud. However, repeated soaking and drying, drying too quickly, or changes in humidity based on environment cause the stone to dry out unevenly. Because resinoid based stones are not as porous, air can not penetrate as quickly, nor can water escape in the same way. As water leaves the outer portion of the stone, the loss of mass causes the outside of the stone to shrink faster than the inside of the stone, which is the main cause of cracking with stones like this. Therefore, when it comes to resinoid based stones, you need to pick one of the following ways of dealing with them:
> -soak permanently
> ...



This should be a sticky.


----------



## JohnnyChance (Mar 16, 2014)

I like to use Jon's 1k/6k diamond stone set for at work sharpening. Splash & go for real (no short soak needed) and you don't have to flatten them. I also have an 8k DMT plate and a felt strop loaded w/ 1 micron diamond from Marko that I use for quick touchups. Basically in place of a ceramic rod. Haven't used my Mac rod since getting the DMT.


----------



## Von blewitt (Mar 16, 2014)

Johnny, I have the DMT from Marko also and was considering the diamond stones from Jon, is there a reason you use the DMT for touch ups instead of Jon's 6k?


----------



## JohnnyChance (Mar 16, 2014)

I had the DMT from Marko before I got the diamond stones from Jon. I suppose if I had the stones from Jon I could do without the DMT, but I still like it. It is faster, I use it completely dry, it has feet on it so I don't need a stone holder, I like having a strop and the magnetic backing on the felt attaches nicely to the DMT. I also like the size, it is 2.5" x 11" I believe, nice for stropping longer knives. I keep the strop affixed to the DMT and the whole thing wrapped in a side towel (to protect the felt from getting wet) in my tray (a shallow hotel pan). I suppose I could keep the 6k JKI diamond fixed to the rubber base and leave that in my tray, but I still like having the strop. And I like how the DMT feels, especially just for touch ups. I have never been a huge fan of touching up on a high grit stone, my edges never seem to be that great or last that long. I much prefer to start around 1k and move up to a higher stone. The DMT+strop edges are great and have very good retention, much much better than a ceramic rod.


----------



## Dave Martell (Mar 16, 2014)

JBroida said:


> i just responded to a customer e-mail with the following, which i though might be of interest for some people here as well...
> 
> Resinoid based stones respond to soaking and drying differently from ceramic, clay based, and magnesia based stones. Magnesia based stones, like the chocera, will crack when over-soaked due to magnesia (the binding agent) leaching out in the water. After a while, the stone looses structural stability. Clay based and ceramic stones do not have any cracking problems unless dropped (or sometimes when they are worn thin and you exert too much pressure in an unsupported section). Vitrified stones work in a similar way to the ceramic and clay based stones, but are often less firm and can break more easily when dropped and/or worn too thin. Resinoid based stones, like the gesshin 6000, arashiyama, kitayama, and even some of maxim's stones, respond to soaking differently. The soaking is actually not the issue at all. Soaking helps soften the stone, causing it to release more abrasive more quickly, improving tactile feedback, and helping create more mud. However, repeated soaking and drying, drying too quickly, or changes in humidity based on environment cause the stone to dry out unevenly. Because resinoid based stones are not as porous, air can not penetrate as quickly, nor can water escape in the same way. As water leaves the outer portion of the stone, the loss of mass causes the outside of the stone to shrink faster than the inside of the stone, which is the main cause of cracking with stones like this. Therefore, when it comes to resinoid based stones, you need to pick one of the following ways of dealing with them:
> -soak permanently
> ...





Talim said:


> This should be a sticky.




I agree. I hope you don't mind Jon.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...g-vs-Splash-nGo-Some-Info?p=289718#post289718


----------



## JBroida (Mar 16, 2014)

Dave Martell said:


> I agree. I hope you don't mind Jon.
> 
> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...g-vs-Splash-nGo-Some-Info?p=289718#post289718



i'm good with that... glad you guys found it to be helpful


----------



## aser (Mar 25, 2014)

Was about to pull the trigger tonight, but alas the Gesshin 6000 is out of stock.

Maybe I should get a 6000 Shapton glass as a work stone, then the Awasedo as a finisher I leave at home.

Not a big fan of the feel of the 6000 but it is super convenient and does the job fast. I really don't want to waste more money on stones cracking on me again.

I'm worried if I permasoak a stone at work, then I can't take it home without worrying about it cracking from drying after a long time under water.


----------



## tbott (Mar 26, 2014)

Something I think helps (since I've had a few stones crack on me as well, including a Chosera 3k) is actually storing the stone on its side. In a kitchen that might be tough to prevent it form falling over, but the ones I keep at home I store like that. I just feel a little moisture form the stone ends up on the towel and gets trapped there, keeping the whole thing from drying efficiently, which can lead to the aforementioned cracking. Who knows though, fickle, expensive little bastards they are. 

T


----------

