# Confronting the cult of Cutco.



## Lens Pirate (Feb 6, 2022)

There was a thread on another forum. This nice lady, emerging home chef / foodie and very helpful.
She posts how the cutco rep is coming to Costco and she is going to really splurge. Buy the biggest set.

What followed was utterly insane. The post after post of the most naked confirmation bias, absurd claims about special
cutco edges, that only Cutco could sharpen. Life-time warranties, Ect. It was a Cutco divinity cult.

I lost my mind. I fully engaged called them on the BS with reasoned information about the Cutco knives. I gave options, lots of options.
If she really wanted a "set " of knives I suggested the 17 piece Nexus knife and block set over on Cutlery and Mores web site., BDNI 63 RH steel and great shaped G10 handles. 299 dollars shipped. Thats the cost of 1 or two Cutcos and they are Much better knives,.

NO PROGRESS Not one single person changed thier opinion. Its like Cutco knives have risen to a core belief and people are doomed.

May I never be so sure of anything, may I never refuse the alter my opinion based on new and better evidence. It was scary to watch.

OMG! https://www.cutco.com/products/product.jsp?item=ultimate-set-with-steak-knives 3260 dollars


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## Bear (Feb 6, 2022)

3k for Cutco, insane


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## coxhaus (Feb 6, 2022)

I don't own or never did own a Cutco knife but one of my daughter's has one. I was not able to sharpen it the way I sharpen my knives with my Worksharp. The steel is very hard.

I made it better but not sharp. I told her to send it in.


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## Delat (Feb 6, 2022)

You see that with a lot of established name brands. People don't want the cognitive dissonance associated with realizing they overpaid for inferior product.


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## EricEricEric (Feb 6, 2022)

Join us… join us!!! We want cutco! We want cutco!


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## gaijin (Feb 6, 2022)

As a foreginer I tried to google Cutco. 

First hit, their own web page has locked out us outside of the US: 







The second hit said it was an MLM / Pyramid Scheme. 

I feel pretty good to be locked out.


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## Jason183 (Feb 6, 2022)

I heard they’re using stamped 440A steel heat treated to 56-60 HRC


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## Lens Pirate (Feb 6, 2022)

Jason183 said:


> I heard they’re using stamped 440A steel heat treated to 56-60 HRC


 That is my understanding as well. Although I do not have conformation of this


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## brimmergj (Feb 6, 2022)

Any time I see or hear about cutco, I think about my mother and how she only uses this knife, for everything. Chicken, steak, potatoes, onions, carrots, lettuce. Everything.


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## Lens Pirate (Feb 6, 2022)

brimmergj said:


> Any time I see or hear about cutco, I think about my mother and how she only uses this knife, for everything. Chicken, steak, potatoes, onions, carrots, lettuce. Everything.
> View attachment 164455


 Makes Perfect sense. Just look at it. Clearly its the best.


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## Bico Doce (Feb 6, 2022)

Lens Pirate said:


> That is my understanding as well. Although I do not have conformation of this


They have the steel listed on their site. 440A is good enough my garbage can, not much else


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## Lens Pirate (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> They have the steel listed on their site. 440A is good enough my garbage can, not much else
> 
> View attachment 164457


440A Well there it is.


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## Bico Doce (Feb 6, 2022)

My brother in-law had cutco’s. When he wanted them sharpened he called cutco and they sent a rep over to his house. They whipped out a pull thru sharpener, gave each knife a few swipes and done, as good as new. When I hear people reference the “lifetime sharpening” as a reason to buy cutco I laugh. Maybe their system has changed but this is what it was back in the day


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## M1k3 (Feb 6, 2022)

Lens Pirate said:


> 440A Well there it is.


Highly engineered thermo-resin!!


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## Bico Doce (Feb 6, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Highly engineered thermo-resin!!


Isn’t that just a fancy term for plastic?


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## M1k3 (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Isn’t that just a fancy term for plastic?


No, no, no. See, they have engineers working in a dark secret ultra underground lab engineering the same formulation over and over.*

*Really just a Hamster on its wheel in some janitors closet.


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## Bico Doce (Feb 6, 2022)

Here’s the real question - would you rather have a set of cutco’s or 1 CM rasp knife (assuming their equal in value)?


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## WildBoar (Feb 6, 2022)

Easy -- the CM knife. Then I would sell it on eBay for more than I paid to some rabid fan, and use the proceeds to buy a couple good knives.


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## ModRQC (Feb 6, 2022)

That MLM claim about Vector (Cutco salesarm) made for entertaining read. 

It’s almost like some twilight zone. One of the biggest american cutlery company, and a somewhat shady way to distribute.

Right out in the open. Claiming 200 millions annual sales and basically deceiving young people into a « legit pyramid ». Couple of lawsuits they settled with cash here and there. It’s all good old american business.


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## M1k3 (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Here’s the real question - would you rather have a set of cutco’s or 1 CM rasp knife (assuming their equal in value)?


CM hands down. Much better market of suckers secondary market.


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## stringer (Feb 6, 2022)

My wife had a whole set of Cutcos knives when we started dating. Only one remains. And probably one of the most used knives in my kitchen.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> They have the steel listed on their site. 440A is good enough my garbage can, not much else
> 
> View attachment 164457





Lens Pirate said:


> 440A Well there it is.




So in know way am I going to defend Cutco but compositionally speaking, 440A isn't far off of Silver 3/Ginsan and AEB-L:


Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels AISI 440A, Bohler-Uddeholm AEB-L, Hitachi Silver 3 Version 4.36



However, I suspect Cutco runs their 440A at something around 55RC.


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## OldSaw (Feb 6, 2022)

First off, I don’t think anyone ever pays full price for Cutco. They use over the top pricing to give “now how much would you pay” discounts on sets.

They do have a good warranty. I’ve had a set for about twenty years that I paid $450 for and one of the handles got melted on a burner. When my wife sent them in for sharpening they replaced the melted one, no questions asked.

Their shears are the best that I or anyone I know has ever used.

Their sharpening program is a send in service. They will offer to send a rep to your house and examine your knives (they used a ceramic rod set, not a pull thru device, last I observe) and try to sell you more, so just say no to that. However, the actual sharpening program is one in which you send your knives in and they regrind to like new specs.

BD1N isn’t the wonder steel that equal and over the top marketing would have you believe. On the very first use, my wife chipped a BD1N knife. I’m glad she likes her Cutco knives, because she doesn’t want to change the way she cuts and if she ever wrecks a Cutco knife she can just send it in for a new one.

If you never want to learn to sharpen, don’t mind sending your knives in once in a while, just want something of reasonable quality that the manufacturer will stand behind for the rest of your life, and can buy them from your neighbor’s college kid for a steep discount, then they might fit the bill for you.

Obviously, Cutco knives aren’t for people in this forum, otherwise you wouldn’t be here. That doesn’t mean that they are to be compared to a garbage can, @Bico Doce , or that people who buy them are stupid. Their customers have generations of loyalty. My mother still uses two that belonged to my grandmother.

Oh, and talk about confirmation bias, it seems like the whole point of this thread is to confirm in your mind that you are smarter than people who buy Cutco.

I’m not a Cutco fanboy, I just know what they are from lots of experience. I also know there are much worse products out there.

Finally, why would you cast perils to swine? (that’s actually from the Bible so I can’t take credit for it). If that’s the way someone wants to spend their money, what does it matter to you? It’s not like they came here, asked a lot of questions, got good advice, and then went off bragging about buying a Cutco knife set.

Edit: fixed minor typo sent/send


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## Bico Doce (Feb 6, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> So in know way am I going to defend Cutco but compositionally speaking, 440A isn't far off of Silver 3/Ginsan and AEB-L:
> 
> 
> Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels AISI 440A, Bohler-Uddeholm AEB-L, Hitachi Silver 3 Version 4.36
> ...


Here’s an article by Larrin on how aeb-l and 440a differ drastically. Increasing the hardness is not going to make this steel a high performer



"A Master of Exotic Damascus Patterns"


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## Bico Doce (Feb 6, 2022)

OldSaw said:


> That doesn’t mean that they are to be compared to a garbage can, @Bico Doce , or that people who buy them are stupid.


I didn’t imply people buying cutco are stupid. What I said was 440A is not an optimal steel for kitchen knives.

Are there any top makers out there using this steel?

Outside of having generations of loyal fans, could you please state why you think these knives perform well and are worth the money? Could you compare their chefs knife against say a Tojiro DP and say that it outperforms the Tojiro in any aspect?

I have used cutco’s and I found them to be poorly made.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Here’s an article by Larrin on how aeb-l and 440a differ drastically. Increasing the hardness is not going to make this steel a high performer
> 
> 
> 
> "A Master of Exotic Damascus Patterns"



Not sure you dropped the link you wanted but at any rate, I'm aware and fair enough however for the average consumer, it isn't a terrible steel and offers a lot of toughness which would be what they are after. I just think all too often we can get up on a steel name and not realize what the steel is all about. The EDC world is really guilty of this so perhaps I'm still harboring some of those sensitivities.


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## Bico Doce (Feb 6, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Not sure you dropped the link you wanted but at any rate, I'm aware and fair enough however for the average consumer, it isn't a terrible steel and offers a lot of toughness which would be what they are after. I just think all too often we can get up on a steel name and not realize what the steel is all about. The EDC world is really guilty of this so perhaps I'm still harboring some of those sensitivities.


Here’s the link that I intended to add



"A Master of Exotic Damascus Patterns"



It seems the argument being made is that cutco is a good option for those that would like to destroy their knives and have them replaced indefinitely by the manufacturer. If that’s the case then I surrender. Cutco for all!

Edit: the section I’m referring to is in the FAQ section


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## OldSaw (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Here’s the link that I intended to add
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s pretty much the direction I was going in and why I’m glad my wife prefers them.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Here’s the link that I intended to add
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Relax. I was quite clear that I'm not defending Cutco.


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## OldSaw (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> I didn’t imply people buying cutco are stupid. What I said was 440A is not an optimal steel for kitchen knives.
> 
> Are there any top makers out there using this steel?
> 
> ...


I only tagged you for the garbage can reference. I understand your appreciation for superior steel.

I have done a side by side comparison and on cutting performance there is no comparison, nearly any average J-knife would out cut a Cutco knife (and that’s why I prefer them for myself). However, on a durability and abuse scale, Cutco wins all day long, hands down (and that’s why I prefer them for my wife).


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## Bico Doce (Feb 6, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Relax. I was quite clear that I'm not defending Cutco.


Not sure where to go from here. I acknowledged that there is a customer base for cutco while maintaining I’m not a fan. So I’m not out here trying to put people down or flex my (limited) knowledge as an ego boost.

I linked the article because your observation of how aebl / 440a being similar didn’t sound right to me so I did a little research before responding ignorantly.

There were good vibes on this thread and maybe light hearted joking but it took a turn. So how about we both relax then?


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## HumbleHomeCook (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Not sure where to go from here. I acknowledged that there is a customer base for cutco while maintaining I’m not a fan. So I’m not out here trying to put people down or flex my (limited) knowledge as an ego boost.
> 
> I linked the article because your observation of how aebl / 440a being similar didn’t sound right to me so I did a little research before responding ignorantly.
> 
> There were good vibes on this thread and maybe light hearted joking but it took a turn. So how about we both relax then?



I'm not worked up in the slightest.


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## ModRQC (Feb 6, 2022)

OldSaw said:


> I only tagged you for the garbage can reference. I understand your appreciation for superior steel.
> 
> I have done a side by side comparison and on cutting performance there is no comparison, nearly any average J-knife would out cut a Cutco knife (and that’s why I prefer them for myself). However, on a durability and abuse scale, Cutco wins all day long, hands down (and that’s why I prefer them for my wife).



Really comes down the the good old: buy the maker not the steel. For whatever specific need there’s one out there that just does it.


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## Bico Doce (Feb 6, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I'm not worked up in the slightest.


Alright my man. You do you


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## Jason183 (Feb 6, 2022)

440C(60HRC) is the ones that’s more similar to above mentioned because have higher carbon. 440A normally have liked 56RC on Rockwell chart. Something this low RC only good for abusive tasks.
But I’ve tried a 58-59HRC FKM knife before, the edge retention isn’t even good at this range, dulls in one shift after breaking down some fish.


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## stringer (Feb 6, 2022)

I am not a knife snob. My collection contains cheap mass production knives bought in supermarkets and flea markets and Chinese grocery stores. Knives that I'm proud to use at home and in professional kitchens and on YouTube. But I got rid of all of the Cutco knives except for that peeler. What does that mean? They were not fun to sharpen. They were not fun to use. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. Except for that peeler. Man that's a helluva peeler.


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## M1k3 (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Here’s the link that I intended to add
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Shun also. Minus all the MLM stuff.


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## WildBoar (Feb 6, 2022)

OldSaw said:


> First off, I don’t think anyone ever pays full price for Cutco. They use over the top pricing to give “now how much would you pay” discounts on sets.
> 
> If you never want to learn to sharpen, don’t mind sending your knives in once in a while, just want something of reasonable quality that the manufacturer will stand behind for the rest of your life, and can buy them from your neighbor’s college kid for a steep discount, then they might fit the bill for you.


These two statements appear to be at odds. How is it a 'steep discount' when this is the way the knives are retailed, and they never sell for the outrageous 'MSRP'. It is a marketing ploy to make people feel like they getting something awesome for 40% off. It is pure marketing BS.

I don't think poorly of the customers, but I sure do think poorly of the company.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Feb 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Alright my man. You do you



No issues at all @Bico Doce. I honestly think we're on the same page and I'm chocking it up to the internet not conveying tone properly. All good.


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## bahamaroot (Feb 6, 2022)

I'd buy a set of Victorinox and a pull through and would be better off than paying for crazy overpriced Cutco.


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## OldSaw (Feb 6, 2022)

WildBoar said:


> These two statements appear to be at odds. How is it a 'steep discount' when this is the way the knives are retailed, and they never sell for the outrageous 'MSRP'. It is a marketing ploy to make people feel like they getting something awesome for 40% off. It is pure marketing BS.
> 
> I don't think poorly of the customers, but I sure do think poorly of the company.


I don’t like their marketing practices either. Discounts are all relative to wherever they want to set their starting point. I’m just saying that while raising three kids I never had to worry about them getting ruined and they also went in the dishwasher every night. They are also better than the Chicago Cutlery stuff I had before that.

Now that I’m old and don’t have soccer camps and medical symposiums to pay for any more I’m spending some money on myself and getting good knives. However, I’m not throwing the Cutco knives away, as the penalty of ownership has already been paid. Now I will gladly provide them to anyone who wants to help and not worry one bit about them.


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## coxhaus (Feb 7, 2022)

I thought I had sharpened 440A stainless before but I could not sharpen the Cutco knife with my Worksharp.

Has anybody sharpened a Cutco knife? What stones did you use?


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## madmotts (Feb 7, 2022)

I sold Cutco knives (poorly) for one summer a long long time ago. Kind of jaded by the pyramid tactics of using friends and family. I hate them to this day. They aren’t even good knives and painful to sharpen and I think do the dreaded burr flipping. They’re ****.

Ok- if you or someone you know has them, it’s not all bad- Historically, they have a great warranty program where you package them up and they sharpen and in some cases refurbish them. My roommate at one time dishwashed it on the bottom rack and melted the handle off and was sent a new one. There were a couple of instances like this in my family too- broken tips, flat serrated teeth & abused edges. Never throw them away, send them in. I’m pretty sure my family just packs them in box to whatever address. 

the spatula spreader is my favorite. Flexy serrated edge (“double d”) and good for peanut butter, brie and cream cheese. I’ll ask the family about a peeler.

I haven’t heard of this but If they want to have a rep meet w you, HELL NO. Remember Pyramid- they will ask u for a list of folks to contact. Buying another ****** knife will be the least you’ll have to worry about- Losing friends/family, house/car vandalized. Don’t do it.


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## coxhaus (Feb 7, 2022)

I do have a spatula spreader and it is nice. I would not buy any knives.


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## Jville (Feb 7, 2022)

Cutco is complete trash. I feel sorry for the ignorant who fall prey to them. I remember hearing the spiel before I knew better. Fortunately, I did not buy them. I guess save who you can. Whenever they cone up I say they are complete trash do not purchase. Perhaps we could create YouTube videos and protest at places where they are setup. I remember seeing them setup in Costco. If I see them again, I’m going to say some stuff and cause a scene.


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## coxhaus (Feb 7, 2022)

My brother-in-law uses Cutco knives and likes them. I could not talk him out of them. He is a great cook and lives in Napa.


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## Brian Weekley (Feb 7, 2022)

I inherited a couple of Cutco knives and a pair of scissors from my wife’s mom. The scissors aren’t bad, I use them all the time and like the fact I can throw them in the dishwasher for cleanup. The dinner knives don’t inspire me, but I’ve used worse. I give them to my older friends and relatives when they are over for a meal … they are invariably delighted at being treated so special. A lot of life is illusion.


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## AT5760 (Feb 7, 2022)

Oddly, I’d never heard of Cutco until joining KKF. It sounds like was for the better.


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## stringer (Feb 7, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I thought I had sharpened 440A stainless before but I could not sharpen the Cutco knife with my Worksharp.
> 
> Has anybody sharpened a Cutco knife? What stones did you use?



I used to try sharpening my then girlfriends set. After we got married I made her get rid of them. I never had much luck getting them sharp and the retention was worse than Chinese restaurant supply knives that cost about $8 a piece. I probably used Shapton Glass and Naniwa Super Stones exclusively then. If I was asked to sharpen one today I would thin it on a belt sander and then do a blended convex bevel with Debado 200 and polish it with a washita. Deburr on cbn pasted denim. The same treatment I use for most cheap stainless.


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## RockyBasel (Feb 7, 2022)

So, I guess I should not do a Cutco Massdrop anytime soon

just when I thought I had something special for a Massdrop


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## chefwp (Feb 7, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Are there any top makers out there using this steel?


Misono has a line in 440, here is how it is described on JCK:
For these knives Misono uses “High 16 Chromium and Molybdenum Stainless Steel" (HRc. 58-59), which offers superior durability, rust resistance and ease of sharpening than standard Molybdenum stainless steels. 

Personally, I am not Misono's biggest fan, but they are pretty highly regarded by culinary professionals.


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## stringer (Feb 7, 2022)

Misono 440 is a very common knife in pro kitchens. They are a great knife. They have nothing in common with Cutcos. I would recommend basic NSF/Dexter/Mercer/Victorinox type knives over CutCo.



chefwp said:


> Misono has a line in 440, here is how it is described on JCK:
> For these knives Misono uses “High 16 Chromium and Molybdenum Stainless Steel" (HRc. 58-59), which offers superior durability, rust resistance and ease of sharpening than standard Molybdenum stainless steels.
> 
> Personally, I am not Misono's biggest fan, but they are pretty highly regarded by culinary professionals.


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## mpier (Feb 7, 2022)

I was gifted a couple of Cutco knives, a Santoku and serrated knife from work. When I first got them I looked up the price as they are sold as a set, I was shocked that they are so expensive. First off I hate the handles and there heavy. I don’t mind the serrated knife at all, stays sharp for ever. I have had no problem getting the Santoku really sharp, but eventually with that strange grind it comes with it will probably hit the trash can at some point because I just don’t want to spend the time to re-grind it. My wife loves it, I’m guessing because of the small handle. I personally will never buy one EVER!! But to each his own!


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## OldSaw (Feb 7, 2022)

mpier said:


> I was gifted a couple of Cutco knives, a Santoku and serrated knife from work. When I first got them I looked up the price as they are sold as a set, I was shocked that they are so expensive. First off I hate the handles and there heavy. I don’t mind the serrated knife at all, stays sharp for ever. I have had no problem getting the Santoku really sharp, but eventually with that strange grind it comes with it will probably hit the trash can at some point because I just don’t want to spend the time to re-grind it. My wife loves it, I’m guessing because of the small handle. I personally will never buy one EVER!! But to each his own!


If your wife loves it then don’t get rid of it. Let her use it, abuse it, grind it, smash it, throw it in the dishwasher. You’ll never have to worry about her chipping the edge of your good knives as long as she’s using those. When she thinks it’s too dull to use, tell her to mail it in and they will sharpen it for her.


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## SilverSwarfer (Feb 7, 2022)




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## Delat (Feb 7, 2022)

Sounds like you basically pre-pay for lifetime sharpening and replacement. I guess that’s great for someone who doesn’t want to deal with the mental cycles of sharpening or worrying about damage.

But if you spent $450 on a set 20 years ago, that’s around $730 in inflation-adjusted dollars today. Say you bought a Vic or something similar for $50, and your local sharpener will touch it up for $8. Seems like you could buy a ton of sharpening and replacements over time and have the saved money in your pocket meanwhile. And you’d probably sharpen the knives more often vs the hassle of packing and shipping. 

Anyway, as @OldSaw has pointed out, some people prefer to just pay once and be done with the mental hassle of the whole thing. I think there’s a different mental perspective to “The vendor will replace this for free” vs “I can just buy a replacement”. I can see the attraction from that perspective.


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## stringer (Feb 7, 2022)

OldSaw said:


> If your wife loves it then don’t get rid of it. Let her use it, abuse it, grind it, smash it, throw it in the dishwasher. You’ll never have to worry about her chipping the edge of your good knives as long as she’s using those. When she thinks it’s to dull to use, tell her to mail it in and they will sharpen it for her.





SilverSwarfer said:


> View attachment 164560




I replaced my wife's Cutcos with Japanese and German factory produced knives and a few independent maker customs that are tough enough to handle her abuse but more fun for me to sharpen and maintain. I'm not sure if the marriage would have worked if she had insisted on keeping the Cutcos. But I will keep that peeler forever.


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## OldSaw (Feb 7, 2022)

stringer said:


> I replaced my wife's Cutcos with Japanese and German factory produced knives and a few independent maker customs that are tough enough to handle her abuse but more fun for me to sharpen and maintain. I'm not sure if the marriage would have worked if she had insisted on keeping the Cutcos. But I will keep that peeler forever.


That sounds like an awesome peeler. My biggest beef with peelers is their tendency to walk away.

I recently lost a small Victorinox paring knife that was stuck in a wheel of brie during thanksgiving at my parent’s house. It was my wife’s favorite paring knife, again well over twenty years old. I ended up getting a couple from Amazon for $7.47 each and they are still Swiss made. I probably paid about $3 for the first one. They’re not fancy, but they take a licking and I didn’t feel so bad when it went missing (either got thrown out with the trash or ended up going home with my sister-in-law). I have a Wusthof and a Tojiro petty that satisfy my paring needs… for now.


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## chefwp (Feb 7, 2022)

stringer said:


> Misono 440 is a very common knife in pro kitchens. They are a great knife. They have nothing in common with Cutcos. I would recommend basic NSF/Dexter/Mercer/Victorinox type knives over CutCo.


I've never held a Cutco knife before, but i'll take the majority of opinions I respect here that they are poo. A Misono moly was actually the first J-knife I ever bought more than a decade ago back when I was a pro.


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## Bico Doce (Feb 7, 2022)

chefwp said:


> Misono has a line in 440, here is how it is described on JCK:
> For these knives Misono uses “High 16 Chromium and Molybdenum Stainless Steel" (HRc. 58-59), which offers superior durability, rust resistance and ease of sharpening than standard Molybdenum stainless steels.
> 
> Personally, I am not Misono's biggest fan, but they are pretty highly regarded by culinary professionals.


Misono is well respected so if they are using 440a then I stand corrected. That description could also apply to 440b & 440c which have the exact same composition except for more carbon. My guess is that they are using 440c but it could be the other variations as well


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## Jason183 (Feb 7, 2022)

Heat treatment also a factor, maby cutco doesn’t heat treat their knives well enough or does poor heat treatment job. It can make them difficult to sharpen or unable to get them sharp.

I’ve tried few blue2 knives before, most of them are easy to sharpen and gets sharp quickly on stones. But there’s one blue2 I just can’t get it sharp doesn’t matter how much time I put into the sharpening.


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## daveb (Feb 7, 2022)

My only use of a Cutco left me completed underwhelmed. Bulky feeling, didn't cut worth a damn.

I smiled when I returned it to owner. (Can't say anything nice......)



SilverSwarfer said:


> View attachment 164560


 
Wouldn't touch a Rosle.


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## Heckel7302 (Feb 7, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I thought I had sharpened 440A stainless before but I could not sharpen the Cutco knife with my Worksharp.
> 
> Has anybody sharpened a Cutco knife? What stones did you use?


I've sharpened a few. Found them similar to other cheap stainless knives like cuisinart. Sticky burrs that just don't quit.


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 7, 2022)

Ethan Becker told me the Cutco bread knife is the best one on the market. But then he works for Cutco (KABAR and Cutco are one company). I've me the head guys at Cutco and yes its all about marketing with them. Seems to have worked for a long time.


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## Jeff (Feb 7, 2022)

Lens Pirate said:


> There was a thread on another forum. This nice lady, emerging home chef / foodie and very helpful.
> She posts how the cutco rep is coming to Costco and she is going to really splurge. Buy the biggest set.
> 
> What followed was utterly insane. The post after post of the most naked confirmation bias, absurd claims about special
> ...


 So true!

First and foremost, I am NOT a CUTCO fan.

Having made that clear, I have several CUTCO observations to share:

1. Their kitchen shears are pretty good (and priced very high! I was so impressed I keep a pair in my block and a pair in my knifeblock.

2. Their “special sharpening” is a sales gimmick to sell you more knives. They say only they can sharpen their special “D-serrated” knives. Ha ha ha! What it really is is that the salesman will come to your house, and you will be asked to have friends there. Thy drag your knife over a ceramic sharpening stone that has groves cut in it to match the “D-serrations.” … AND WHILE YOU ARE HELD CAPTIVE THEY DO THEIR SALES PITCH!!!!

3. All the salespeople are financially invested. They buy their stock and the products they demo. It is premised on a multi-level marketing type of thing. If, and when, a salesperson hets out they take a bath on the stock on hand and the commissions from people below them.

I agree that it is a crazy cult following.


----------



## Jeff (Feb 7, 2022)

Delat said:


> You see that with a lot of established name brands. People don't want the cognitive dissonance associated with realizing they overpaid for inferior product.



And the handles! YUCK !!!! … Something out of a 1950’s modernistic kitchen. very kitchy and very outdated.


----------



## Jeff (Feb 7, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Highly engineered thermo-resin!!


Highly engineered resin … Isn’t that what the Mercury astronauts took into space woth their Tang drink?


----------



## tomsch (Feb 7, 2022)

I'm also not a Cutco fan but do agree that shears are good. I tend to use/abuse them for pretty much everything in the kitchen and so far they are holding up.


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## coxhaus (Feb 7, 2022)

My brother-in-law that uses Cutco knives if he gets a knife really dirty, he just throws it in the dishwasher.


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## stringer (Feb 7, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> My brother-in-law that uses Cutco knives if he gets a knife really dirty, he just throws it in the dishwasher.



Have you handled it? How does it compare in use to your Henckels?


----------



## PolishAvenger (Feb 7, 2022)

I've bought a lotta nice knives by buying Cutco at garage sales and thrift stores for next-to-nothing, sending them in to the factory for refurbishing and then reselling them on-line. There are two or three items (peeler, shears and spreader come to mind) that I use often, but most of their knives are best used as "trade and upgrade" material 
-Mark


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## coxhaus (Feb 7, 2022)

stringer said:


> Have you handled it? How does it compare in use to your Henckels?


I like my Henckels. The handles are more comfortable. I know my Henckels cut better. They feel better to me. I like heavy knives. I have never used a freshly sharpened Cutco as he said he was going to send them back. He does not have a sales guy come over. He just sends them in to be sharpened or replaced. He has probably been using some of them for more than 20 years.

I really don't cook much because he is such a good cook. He usually has everything planned out for his sister to show off.


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## WildBoar (Feb 7, 2022)

Noodle Soup said:


> Ethan Becker told me the Cutco bread knife is the best one on the market. But then he works for Cutco (KABAR and Cutco are one company). I've me the head guys at Cutco and yes its all about marketing with them. Seems to have worked for a long time.


Step 1: Invite him over for dinner, including helping with prep.
Step 2: Pick a dish with a lot of cutting required.
Step 3: Steal underpants.
Step 4: ?????
Step 5: Profit!


----------



## swarfrat (Feb 7, 2022)

Well, I for one really, really miss our Cutcos's.

My wife came from a Cutco family and brought them with her. I had Henkel's. They lived side by side for many years (before I discovered J-knives). The blended family worked. I used the Germans. She had all these different knives but only ever used one of them, a Cutco boning knife, for _everything_. On board, off board it didn't matter. If she was cutting, out came the Cutco.

I never tried to convince her of anything. One day just I slid a JCK petty into the block next to the Cutco. She tried it and never touched the Cutco again.

So one day she did a kitchen purge and all the Cutco's went away (except the boner, which she kept but never uses).

Anyway, I really miss the Cutco's because we have a lot of parties and they made great decoys. I always have to hide the J-knives when a crowd comes over (except _her _petty). Which now leaves the Germans out for the family to abuse. When we had the Cutco's I could just leave them out and not worry. And honestly, they cut okay enough for parties.


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## Rangen (Feb 7, 2022)

Had I not had many years of accumulating knives that make perfect decoys, I'd almost covet some Cutcos now. Tossed carelessly into the sink? Replacement! Dishwashed 800 times? Replacement!

But, alas, the Giant Knife Block Of Shame is there to remind me of my previous limited knowledge, and the Drawer of Real Knives is nicely hidden away from all casual users.


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## daveb (Feb 7, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> And U.S. to Australia is about $80 plus an arm, sometimes leg also.



The last time I shipped to criminal Island was pre-covid. Then it was in-line with EU shipping, 30 bucks or so.


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## blokey (Feb 7, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Misono is well respected so if they are using 440a then I stand corrected. That description could also apply to 440b & 440c which have the exact same composition except for more carbon. My guess is that they are using 440c but it could be the other variations as well


The basic line of Misono uses AUS-8, which is similar to 440B, their 440 line is more expensive, I think they are using something like Acuto 440.


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## coxhaus (Feb 7, 2022)

swarfrat said:


> Well, I for one really, really miss our Cutcos's.
> 
> My wife came from a Cutco family and brought them with her. I had Henkel's. They lived side by side for many years (before I discovered J-knives). The blended family worked. I used the Germans. She had all these different knives but only ever used one of them, a Cutco boning knife, for _everything_. On board, off board it didn't matter. If she was cutting, out came the Cutco.
> 
> ...



So did you ever figure out how to sharpen a Cutco knife?


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## KenHash (Feb 7, 2022)

I had one Cutco Chefs knife decades ago that was gifted to me. I used it on and off over maybe 4-5 years. I never liked the grind or the handle. The steel being 440A felt very similar to the 1970s/80s Aus6 knives that were sold as Surgical Steel. I was never able to get it as sharp as I'd like on stones, and I eventually sharped that knife solely on paper wheels. Eventually I decided to get rid of it and sold it for an unexpectedly high price on ebay. I was quite surprised at the number of people who seemed to be chasing Cutco knives, even used ones.
I have heard of Cutco's marketing system which does sound like something to stay clear of.
If anyone says Cutco knives are "garbage" I wound't have much grounds to argue.


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## HansCaravan (Feb 7, 2022)

Wow, this thread blew up rather quickly!  Cutco is one brand that always evokes a visceral response on the forums.


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## M1k3 (Feb 7, 2022)

HansCaravan said:


> Wow, this thread blew up rather quickly!  Cutco is one brand that always evokes a visceral response on the forums.


#ChelseaMiller
#TF
#GinsanVersusAEB-H


----------



## crockerculinary (Feb 7, 2022)

Man I see so many of them here in Sacramento. People ask me all the time what I think of them and I (diplomatically) tell them it’s basically a 25 dollar knife with a 150 dollar insurance policy. I’m kinda impressed by how successful they have been with their scheme. I think every person I’ve talked to got them either from their nephew or “the neighbors kid”. That’s a pretty clever strategy. It always surprises me that people don’t recognize just from a glance that they aren’t a quality product. I don’t think they’ve changed their design at all in 70 years.


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## Rangen (Feb 7, 2022)

crockerculinary said:


> it’s basically a 25 dollar knife with a 150 dollar insurance policy.



Brilliant. Stealing that.


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## Jeff (Feb 8, 2022)

PolishAvenger said:


> I've bought a lotta nice knives by buying Cutco at garage sales and thrift stores for next-to-nothing, sending them in to the factory for refurbishing and then reselling them on-line. There are two or three items (peeler, shears and spreader come to mind) that I use often, but most of their knives are best used as "trade and upgrade" material
> -Mark


I agree about shears & spreader. Never used their peeler

I also like their cheese knife.


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## Justinv (Feb 8, 2022)

crockerculinary said:


> I don’t think they’ve changed their design at all in 70 years



I think 440A was like the second stainless steel invented suitable for knives. It dates to a 1927 patent. 420 stainless was 1916 and the first stainless steel was patented in 1912. This is all based on steel history posted by Larrin. 

I don’t understand why companies are using such ancient steel. Yoshikane uses SLD/ D2 patented in 1928, and Skd/A2 patented in 1942.

We’re still using cast iron skillets though but at least they are cheap (with some exceptions).

But seriously, there have been advances in steel in the last 100 years and the prices charged are sufficient to cover modern steel. They must be priced as antiques.


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## Bobby2shots (Feb 8, 2022)

In the late '80's/ early '90's,,, BMW's were outselling Mercedes in California..... after a "market study",Mercede's solution was, raise their price by 30%, and they re-took top spot.

Knife-world parallel; sell a $10. knife for $500.,,,,, offer free sharpening for life,,,, and "bingo", you're in business.

I've handled a 10" Cutco chef's knife that a friend asked me to sharpen. It was a hollow-ground highly polished stamped knife with a plastic handle (diamond pattern handle). The blade was so dull, I doubt that it would "cut" room-temperature" butter. Still, she was very proud to show me her "very expensive" Cutco knife.

Bottom line; if you offered me one for free,,, I'd have to politely say "thanks,,,, but no, thank you".

The last time I saw these Cutco knife sets at Costco Canada, they were asking $1,399. CDN,,, and as usual, eight of the knives in the "set" were steak knives. Fortunately, Costco also sells a beautiful 8-piece steak-knife set from Laguiolle for $36. Canadian.

Cutco,,,,, the "Tupperware-party" of the knife world.


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## Bobby2shots (Feb 8, 2022)

crockerculinary said:


> Man I see so many of them here in Sacramento. People ask me all the time what I think of them and I (diplomatically) tell them it’s basically a 25 dollar knife with a 150 dollar insurance policy. I’m kinda impressed by how successful they have been with their scheme. *I think every person I’ve talked to got them either from their nephew or “the neighbors kid”.* That’s a pretty clever strategy. It always surprises me that people don’t recognize just from a glance that they aren’t a quality product. I don’t think they’ve changed their design at all in 70 years.



Cutco started out as a pyramid scheme; "selling" not only knives, but "selling" the possibility of "starting your own business" by recruiting friends and family as potential buyers and re-sellers of Cutco knives. Their initial target group was college students. Door-to-door sales were also part of the business model, just like "The Fuller Brush" man, or vacuum-cleaner salesmen, or Tupperware parties.


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## M1k3 (Feb 8, 2022)

Bobby2shots said:


> Cutco started out as a pyramid scheme; "selling" not only knives, but "selling" the possibility of "starting your own business" by recruiting friends and family as potential buyers and re-sellers of Cutco knives. Their initial target group was college students. Door-to-door sales were also part of the business model, just like "The Fuller Brush" man, or vacuum-cleaner salesmen, or Tupperware parties.


Would you like to buy some Amway? Mary Kay? Avon? Herbalife?


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## Jeff (Feb 8, 2022)

Bobby2shots said:


> In the late '80's/ early '90's,,, BMW's were outselling Mercedes in California..... after a "market study",Mercede's solution was, raise their price by 30%, and they re-took top spot.
> 
> Knife-world parallel; sell a $10. knife for $500.,,,,, offer free sharpening for life,,,, and "bingo", you're in business.
> 
> ...


Cookbooks & knives - I have reached a point of great discrimination. I have run out of shelf space and block space. It really takes something special to claim a slot in my blocks or a space on my shelves. CUTCO just does not “make the cut”


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## Bico Doce (Feb 8, 2022)

Jeff said:


> Cookbooks & knives - I have reached a point of great discrimination. I have run out of shelf space and block space. It really takes something special to claim a slot in my blocks or a space on my shelves. CUTCO just does not “make the cut”


That is the beauty of Cutco, they come with their own block. No need take up a slot in your existing block. I'll put you down for the deluxe package, now who in your friends and family would also like to get in on this?


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## Jeff (Feb 8, 2022)

I’ll have to think about it
((meaning I will need to get permission from my wife))


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## M1k3 (Feb 8, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> That is the beauty of Cutco, they come with their own block. No need take up a slot in your existing block. I'll put you down for the deluxe package, now who in your friends and family would also like to get in on this?


Can the whole thing, knife block with knives still inside, go in the dishwasher? Covered by the warranty?

Asking for a friend....


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## Bico Doce (Feb 8, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Can the whole thing, knife block with knives still inside, go in the dishwasher? Covered by the warranty?
> 
> Asking for a friend....


It is actually recommended that the knives never leave the block. Leave them in there while you use them and throw the whole block in the dishwasher. Think slap chop but better.


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## Steampunk (Feb 8, 2022)

This is the dark side of affiliate marketing. This is an example of a brand that has strength without quality, because they offer the opportunity for people to make money from sharing thoughts not their own. This will always be stronger than trying to build a brand on integrity. Staking your reputation on an opinion requires genuine hard work and thought, to make sure that you're not called out for being an idiot by your peers, and most of the time you won't get anything back for it. That work to learn your craft is just a contribution to your own knowledge, and to a community of people you believe in... That's the 'Open Source'... It's what makes KKF a better place to learn about kitchen knives than most of the alternatives. 

You cannot fight the kind of marketing that Cutco or others have (I'm even thinking of the prominence of Victorinox due to ATK, and other high-profile sites. Even in the NSF world of knives, there are better options than Vic's.), and prevent the people you care about from falling into that trap... It's going to happen, because money reasons. All you can do is either make it your personal vendetta to clean up the damage, or step away and let things run their own course. Getting non-enthusiasts integrated into an enthusiast field is typically a losing battle, because most people are very happy with how simple marketing makes their lives feel. They feel like they've made a good, special decision that sets them apart from the rest, that they'll never have to think about again, and they get defensive if you suggest this isn't so. This is the strength of 'Branding', and it's a psychological factor that you cannot fight against. It's why a 5-year old Cutco used on glass cutting boards will still be claimed to be 'sharp'.

Sometimes, there are people that you run from, if they ask you to sharpen their knives. Sometimes, you just nod and smile, when they want to tell you how great their knives are... Every now and again, you'll tell that someone is a 'results' rather than 'image' based enthusiast, and you can recommend some good stuff from some honorable sellers to them. You probably won't make anything from those sales, but you will know that your knowledge made someone else's life a little bit better, and you will have directed some business to a small seller who deserves it, and takes good care of their customers. It's rare, but it's a nice moment when it happens. 

I wouldn't feel bad about failing to convert Cutco people. You were fighting an unwinnable battle. You'll help someone with your knowledge, but it'll be rare.


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## WildBoar (Feb 8, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Would you like to buy some Amway? Mary Kay? Avon? Herbalife?


Nope.

But do you have any Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities for sale?


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## Troopah_Knives (Feb 8, 2022)

Justinv said:


> I think 440A was like the second stainless steel invented suitable for knives. It dates to a 1927 patent. 420 stainless was 1916 and the first stainless steel was patented in 1912. This is all based on steel history posted by Larrin.
> 
> I don’t understand why companies are using such ancient steel. Yoshikane uses SLD/ D2 patented in 1928, and Skd/A2 patented in 1942.
> 
> ...



They are priced as antiques. Priced up that is. Like a vintage book or aged wine  .


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## M1k3 (Feb 8, 2022)

WildBoar said:


> Nope.
> 
> But do you have any Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities for sale?


I just ran out. I do have some investment opportunities coming up with Charles Ponzi and DeAnne Brady though.


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## M1k3 (Feb 8, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> It is actually recommended that the knives never leave the block. Leave them in there while you use them and throw the whole block in the dishwasher. Think slap chop but better.


Well slap my nuts! I'll take 3!


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## M1k3 (Feb 8, 2022)

Troopah_Knives said:


> They are priced as antiques. Priced up that is. Like a vintage book or aged wine  .


Epitome of 'upselling'?


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## OldSaw (Feb 8, 2022)

Found this while looking for a case of wine.






It’s from the 12 piece set that I bought from my neighbor’s college kid. I was absolutely NOT going to buy anything from him, but then I admired his work ethic and wanted to help him out. Also, I didn’t think $450 was too expensive back then. China was still developing its takeover of all things kitchenie and there were expensive alternatives available at brick & mortar stores. Plus the internet was still in its infancy, which made knowledgeable choices more difficult.

Things are much different today. With a few taps on a screen you can quickly get more information than you can process. Even armed with all that, I still spent about $2,000 on knives that I might not use. Because I’m the kind of person who needs to touch and feel things, take them for a test drive. This is getting increasingly more difficult, so I end up ordering things and sometimes buy things that I don’t like very well.


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## Bico Doce (Feb 8, 2022)

OldSaw said:


> so I end up ordering things and sometimes buy things that I don’t like very well.


Sshh! You cant say that. Every knife you buy is perfection but the ones you don't keep are because they don't suit your cutting style 

(you will thank me later when you post on BST  )


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## Rangen (Feb 8, 2022)

OldSaw said:


> Even armed with all that, I still spent about $2,000 on knives that I might not use.



So you're saying you're a typical forum member, then?


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## OldSaw (Feb 8, 2022)

I just walked in the door and saw my beloved bride prepping some shrimp… then I saw she left her favorite knife out… right next to the cat food!




Actually, I’m glad she’s using it and not wrecking a better knife and cutting board.


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## OldSaw (Feb 8, 2022)

Rangen said:


> So you're saying you're a typical forum member, then?


It’s beginning to look that way… but I hope not.


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## Lvrgsp (Feb 8, 2022)

HansCaravan said:


> Wow, this thread blew up rather quickly!  Cutco is one brand that always evokes a visceral response on the forums.


You can add them RADA knives too.
Another cult following, allbeit less expensive. Cult following nonetheless....


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## HansCaravan (Feb 8, 2022)

Lvrgsp said:


> You can add them RADA knives too.
> Another cult following, allbeit less expensive. Cult following nonetheless....



LOL! My younger brother asked for a set of Globals for his wedding registry and my uncle got him some RADAs instead. He already had a santoku from North Arm Knives and was not amused by the switcheroo. They sit in a drawer essentially unused 5 years later...


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## tostadas (Feb 8, 2022)

I'd be happy to organize the Cutco massdrop.


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## esoo (Feb 8, 2022)

tostadas said:


> I'd be happy to organize the Cutco massdrop.



A set of Cutco or a Xerxes, I know which Massdrop I'd choose.


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## daveb (Feb 8, 2022)

OldSaw said:


> I just walked in the door and saw my beloved bride prepping some shrimp… then I saw she left her favorite knife out… right next to the cat food!
> View attachment 164757
> 
> Actually, I’m glad she’s using it and not wrecking a better knife and cutting board.



So it's a can opener as well?


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## daveb (Feb 8, 2022)

Steampunk said:


> This is the dark side of affiliate marketing.......



Well said.


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## M1k3 (Feb 8, 2022)




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## sansho (Feb 8, 2022)

my cutco experience...

growing up, we had one of those full sets in knife block. still have it. white plastic handles.

the shears are good. i also like the ice cream scoop which is solid af. very heavy duty feeling, and it has a lot of mass you can preheat.

i don't think we had the cream cheese spreader.

*the peeler.*.. i don't really remember how it performed, but @stringer really talked it up, so i dug it out of a box. can't believe i found it. i'll give it a try next time i do carrots. btw, @stringer, did you ever send it in for "sharpening"? i wonder if this tool is covered and what it costs to have them replace/service. mine doesn't feel super crazy sharp.

i still use the serrated steak knives. no complaints. they go in the dishwasher. we lost about half of them somehow over the years. not sure how. they must have gotten accidentally thrown away or something. maybe left in pie boxes??

this cutco cheese knife has been my mom's main knife she used for all of her cooking. she used it on my hi-softs for a good while before i realized that serrated knives aren't good for them, and my boards look like sһit now. haha






i think she likes it because it's nice and light, remains sharp and able to saw through food, and goes in the dishwasher. i got her a takeda nakiri and have been trying to wean her off of this cutco knife with some amount of success. it's funny because when i was a kid (maybe 10 and younger), she cooked with real carbon steel knives she got in japan. dunno wt f happened there!

the larger, non-serrated knives (not sure what they're called, but santokus and the like) are not very good. i actually didn't have a problem sharpening them, but they're just really thick and clunky. i never use them.

i use their serrated counterparts though when i need a serious beater knife. like if i'm trying to saw a mostly-frozen roast in half or something if i don't need the whole thing. or hacking apart a thick squash. i use it like a cleaver, saw, and prybar:


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## sansho (Feb 8, 2022)

one more thing..

i was just looking at the old cutcos, and the hard plastic handles seem to deteriorate over time. some of them are peeling/fraying a bit. they're old and have been in the dishwasher a bunch, though.


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## stringer (Feb 8, 2022)

sansho said:


> *the peeler.*.. i don't really remember how it performed, but @stringer really talked it up, so i dug it out of a box. can't believe i found it. i'll give it a try next time i do carrots. btw, @stringer, did you ever send it in for "sharpening"? i wonder if this tool is covered and what it costs to have them replace/service. mine doesn't feel super crazy sharp.



I never sharpened it or sent it in. I just recently flipped the blade. So now it's like fresh steel. After about twenty years of use. There is visible damage. It's not sharp. It doesn't matter for a peeler. You can adjust your technique and the opening of the mouth of the peeler to get the job done. Nothing fancy is required. I just like the ergonomics of it a lot. I hate the normal restaurant supply versions. They are too bulky. Have that handle heavy OXO good grips mentality that for something to be "ergonomic" it needs to be big bulky and soft. In big kitchens I usually packed something very simple in my kit like these. If it gets lost, stolen, broken, no big deal. 






Amazon.com: Vegetable Peeler, Stainless Steel Rotary Peeler for Potatoes Carrots Apples Pears (Set of 3) By Lechay: Home & Kitchen


Online Shopping for Kitchen Utensils & Gadgets from a great selection at everyday low prices. Free 2-day Shipping with Amazon Prime.



www.amazon.com





But whenever I was forced to peel 100+ pounds of carrots I would bring the Cutco. So much more comfy.


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## OldSaw (Feb 8, 2022)

sansho said:


> my cutco experience...
> 
> growing up, we had one of those full sets in knife block. still have it. white plastic handles.
> 
> ...


I have that one too. It doesn’t get used very often, but when I need to smash through something, like a bone joint or a pack of frozen spinach, this is the one I grab.




Our cheese knife is a keeper. We only use it for cheese and tomatoes. My wife recently cut the tip of her little finger off with it. It is still incredibly sharp with fairly fine serrations.


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## swarfrat (Feb 9, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> So did you ever figure out how to sharpen a Cutco knife?


Not really. Never put any serious effort into figuring them out. Diamond stones/toothy edge were functional enough.


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 10, 2022)

WildBoar said:


> Step 1: Invite him over for dinner, including helping with prep.
> Step 2: Pick a dish with a lot of cutting required.
> Step 3: Steal underpants.
> Step 4: ?????
> Step 5: Profit!


I have and I've watched Ethan cut up lots of stuff. He's French trained and he does many things different than I would. 
Steal underpants? Not sure about that one.


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## OldSaw (Feb 10, 2022)

As far as sharpening goes, it seems like diamonds work best. I had trouble sharpening the small paring knife on stones.


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## M1k3 (Feb 10, 2022)

Noodle Soup said:


> Steal underpants? Not sure about that one.


You can try asking instead. But might need to resort to stealing though.


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## Jeff (Feb 10, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> You can try asking instead. But might need to resort to stealing though.


I hope they are “stainless” !!!


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## jwthaparc (Feb 10, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I thought I had sharpened 440A stainless before but I could not sharpen the Cutco knife with my Worksharp.
> 
> Has anybody sharpened a Cutco knife? What stones did you use?


My guess is they run their steel so soft that it wont take an edge properly. The slack belt on the worksharp was either rounding the apex, or leaving a burr.


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## jwthaparc (Feb 10, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Misono is well respected so if they are using 440a then I stand corrected. That description could also apply to 440b & 440c which have the exact same composition except for more carbon. My guess is that they are using 440c but it could be the other variations as well


I would bet the are either using c or b. Either that or some other alloy of it. Like acuto 440


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## Tapio (Feb 10, 2022)

Soft low quality stainless knives with cheap plastic handles… My budget is two euros, should the need arise. It’s easy to find knives like that from a local flea market. Cutco reminds me of Huusk. On my home continent they sell plenty of expensive garbage.


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## Jovidah (Feb 11, 2022)

How do people fall for this stuff? They look like cheap junk. Similar kind of grinds to 2-euro department store knives.


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## stringer (Feb 11, 2022)

Jovidah said:


> How do people fall for this stuff? They look like cheap junk. Similar kind of grinds to 2-euro department store knives.




Americans are drawn to pyramid schemes like ants to a picnic. The only thing better than letting somebody talk you into spending your money on something stupid is getting the opportunity to spread the love and try and get your friends and family to follow your folly.


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## WildBoar (Feb 12, 2022)

The worst one I remember from the last 30 years was Pampered Chef. My first wife went to a 'party' and got guilted into hosting one the next month. Get a circle of women downing glasses of wine and much poorly-thought purchasing takes place... At least when the did Tupperwear 50+ years ago it was actually useful.


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## coxhaus (Feb 12, 2022)

jwthaparc said:


> I would bet the are either using c or b. Either that or some other alloy of it. Like acuto 440


I own so old Puma hunting knives in 440c from the 1970s and the Cutco knives seem harder.


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## jwthaparc (Feb 12, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I own so old Puma hunting knives in 440c from the 1970s and the Cutco knives seem harder.


What makes them seem harder to you?


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## coxhaus (Feb 12, 2022)

I can sharpen my hunting knives but the Cutco knife seems like I could not sharpen it. This is my impression. This why I asked as to who has sharpen a Cutco knife? But it seems nobody has sharpened a Cutco knife.


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## jwthaparc (Feb 12, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I can sharpen my hunting knives but the Cutco knife seems like I could not sharpen it. This is my impression. This why I asked as to who has sharpen a Cutco knife? But it seems nobody has sharpened a Cutco knife.


I'm telling you. Its softer steel, not harder. That's why you aren't able to sharpen it. 

Believe it or not softer steel is harder to get to take a fine edge. Especially on something like a worksharp. Which is basically a mini belt sander.


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## HalfBloodHobbit (Feb 13, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I don't own or never did own a Cutco knife but one of my daughter's has one. I was not able to sharpen it the way I sharpen my knives with my Worksharp. The steel is very hard.
> 
> I made it better but not sharp. I told her to send it in.



Did you just say Cutco’s steel was way too hard? It’s 440A at 56 HRC it’s butter soft . I’m about to do a video cutting off the apex of a Cutco knife with a Tojiro DP


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## blokey (Feb 13, 2022)

They even showed off their 56 HRC in their own commercial lol

HRC test at 43rd second
.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 13, 2022)

When I taught sharpening at culinary school some of the students brought Cutco's from home. You can sharpen them takes some effort. they use a hollow grind on their kitchen knives. Don't care for the handle shape.


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## jwthaparc (Feb 13, 2022)

HalfBloodHobbit said:


> Did you just say Cutco’s steel was way too hard? It’s 440A at 56 HRC it’s butter soft . I’m about to do a video cutting off the apex of a Cutco knife with a Tojiro DP


Don't make fun of him. Some people just aren't super knowledgeable about how hard steel vs. Soft steel reacts when trying to be sharpened. Trust me I sharpen people's knives on the weekends at a flee market. What we think would be common knowledge is like a foreign language to the vast majority of people.


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## stringer (Feb 13, 2022)

Oh the irony. My partner invited a work colleague and their spouse over for dinner. At some point the conversation shifted to chef knives and whetstones and straight razors, as it naturally does. I showed them a few bits from my collection. And then came the, "can you sharpen my knives? They were so awesome when I got them but now they are dull. They are Cutcos."


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## coxhaus (Feb 13, 2022)

Interesting. I can sharpen my D2 steel knives and I have a Benchmade 154cm knife. Cutco would not sharpen. So, you are saying it is soft? It did not feel like I was grinding the steel away. I guess the Worksharp hides that from you. It felt more like the belt was not doing any good.

PS
I have an old Swiss army knife from around 1959 as I bought it new and I can sharpen it. The edge is not good and it will not hold it. I have been told the steel is 440a.


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## HalfBloodHobbit (Feb 13, 2022)

Keith Sinclair said:


> When I taught sharpening at culinary school some of the students brought Cutco's from home. You can sharpen them takes some effort. they use a hollow grind on their kitchen knives. Don't care for the handle shape.



Really? Maybe I just do a lot of freehand but even with all the free chromium it takes minimal effort on decent synthetics to get Cutco’s 440A to pop hairs. Terrible edge stability but it has enough elasticity to be forgiving on the stones. It’s not like a 420J Kamikoto that’s so bad that the apex pops off with the burr lolz


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## stringer (Feb 13, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> Interesting. I can sharpen my D2 steel knives and I have a Benchmade 154cm knife. Cutco would not sharpen. So, you are saying it is soft? It did not feel like I was grinding the steel away. I guess the Worksharp hides that from you. It felt more like the belt was not doing any good.
> 
> PS
> I have an old Swiss army knife from around 1959 as I bought it new and I can sharpen it. The edge is not good and it will not hold it. I have been told the steel is 440a.



I have sharpened plenty of Cutcos. My wife owned Cutcos for the first 5 years of our relationship. Lots of friends and family own them. Even in pro kitchens you will see them from time to time. All you gotta do is make sure you hit the apex with the Cutcos, just like any other soft stainless. Very high angle with a very coarse stone. This would be a good application for one of those diamond coated honing rods. And then deburr on one of those badass heirloom hard arks that you got. It would be screaming in less time than it took you to put a new belt on your gizmo. For five minutes at least unless you tried to cut something with it.

But I don't know why your KOWS wouldn't work just fine. They are most likely using belt sanders and buffers when they sharpen them in the factory. You probably just need to do a higher angle. Like 20+ dps or so. To really make sure you are getting to the edge. Sharpen it just like you would one of your old pocketknifes. But then deburr/rebuild the apex a little on a fine natural with edge leading strokes. It's not really going to be able to hold an edge very well. Like @jwthaparc is saying. But it's a steel knife so you should be able to get it plenty sharp with a clean apex.


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## Jason183 (Feb 13, 2022)

Lens Pirate said:


> That is my understanding as well. Although I do not have conformation of this


Mystery solved


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 13, 2022)

Ok, maybe its because I'm as old as dirt but when I started out working with knives and other cutlery, something like 52-54 Rc was considered pretty standard. Custom maker all bragged about having blades in the 58 Rc range. Anything harder was considered brittle and too hard for field use. I don't consider Rc 56 to be "butter" soft. It's plenty hard enough for a lot of everyday uses. If you can't sharpen it its because of your sharpening skills not the knife.


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## Jason183 (Feb 13, 2022)

Noodle Soup said:


> Ok, maybe its because I'm as old as dirt but when I started out working with knives and other cutlery, something like 52-54 Rc was considered pretty standard. Custom maker all bragged about having blades in the 58 Rc range. Anything harder was considered brittle and too hard for field use. I don't consider Rc 56 to be "butter" soft. It's plenty hard enough for a lot of everyday uses. If you can't sharpen it its because of your sharpening skills not the knife.


It depends on type of steels also, AEBL is much easier to sharpen than the VG10 in the same HRC range. ZDP 189 consider one of the high hardness steel But I heard is also difficult to sharpen. Some steels requires more sharpening skills to deburr some are not.
In this case we have 3 different types of 440 steels(440A,440B,440C)
440A(Cutco) not easy to sharpen
440C(Misono 440 line) easy to sharpen


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 13, 2022)

Jason183 said:


> It depends on type of steels also, AEBL is much easier to sharpen than the VG10 in the same HRC range. ZDP 189 consider one of the high hardness steel But I heard is also difficult to sharpen. Some steels requires more sharpening skills to deburr some are not.
> In this case we have 3 different types of 440 steels(440A,440B,440C)
> 440A(Cutco) not easy to sharpen
> 440C(Misono 440 line) easy to sharpen


I have never spent much time trying to sharpen a Cutco blade but as far as 440A there was a time when the majority of American pocket and sporting knives were made from that alloy. I never had any problem sharpening them. As for 440C and what ever alloy Victorinox uses in their Swiss Armies (I think its 12c27 Sandvik) I spent a year in Viet Nam combat carrying a 440C custom Bowie, a Buck 110 (440A?) and a Vic pocket knife. All were kept razor sharp on a couple of little pocket hones.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 13, 2022)

HalfBloodHobbit said:


> Really? Maybe I just do a lot of freehand but even with all the free chromium it takes minimal effort on decent synthetics to get Cutco’s 440A to pop hairs. Terrible edge stability but it has enough elasticity to be forgiving on the stones. It’s not like a 420J Kamikoto that’s so bad that the apex pops off with the burr lolz



Didn't say it was hard to sharpen often they were quite dull rounded edges. With finger pad pressure you can raise a burr. I'd thin a little behind the edge first. Just like other very dull softer stainless. Many knives like Cutco grind a V to get the edges to meet. I usually knock the shoulders off the V grind just like Mercers and Victorinox. 

Some cooks who sharpen think that stainless is harder than carbon because carbon are so easy to get a sharp edge.


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## jwthaparc (Feb 13, 2022)

stringer said:


> I have sharpened plenty of Cutcos. My wife owned Cutcos for the first 5 years of our relationship. Lots of friends and family own them. Even in pro kitchens you will see them from time to time. All you gotta do is make sure you hit the apex with the Cutcos, just like any other soft stainless. Very high angle with a very coarse stone. This would be a good application for one of those diamond coated honing rods. And then deburr on one of those badass heirloom hard arks that you got. It would be screaming in less time than it took you to put a new belt on your gizmo. For five minutes at least unless you tried to cut something with it.
> 
> But I don't know why your KOWS wouldn't work just fine. They are most likely using belt sanders and buffers when they sharpen them in the factory. You probably just need to do a higher angle. Like 20+ dps or so. To really make sure you are getting to the edge. Sharpen it just like you would one of your old pocketknifes. But then deburr/rebuild the apex a little on a fine natural with edge leading strokes. It's not really going to be able to hold an edge very well. Like @jwthaparc is saying. But it's a steel knife so you should be able to get it plenty sharp with a clean apex.


I doubt they use a slack belt thought. Idk If that is actually the reason why, just a guess. Dunno for sure.


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## jwthaparc (Feb 13, 2022)

Noodle Soup said:


> I have never spent much time trying to sharpen a Cutco blade but as far as 440A there was a time when the majority of American pocket and sporting knives were made from that alloy. I never had any problem sharpening them. As for 440C and what ever alloy Victorinox uses in their Swiss Armies (I think its 12c27 Sandvik) I spent a year in Viet Nam combat carrying a 440C custom Bowie, a Buck 110 (440A?) and a Vic pocket knife. All were kept razor sharp on a couple of little pocket hones.


Buck 110 uses 420hc.


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 13, 2022)

jwthaparc said:


> Buck 110 uses 420hc.


Now but not in 68.


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## jwthaparc (Feb 13, 2022)

Noodle Soup said:


> Now but not in 68.


Ah gotcha.


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 13, 2022)

jwthaparc said:


> Ah gotcha.


Steel was always kept much more mysterious by cutlery companies in the old days.


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## jwthaparc (Feb 13, 2022)

Noodle Soup said:


> Steel was always kept much more mysterious by cutlery companies in the old days.


I feel like with the internet now, what want has changed. Now learning about different alloys is as easy as typing a phrase into google. You can get the data sheet of anything. So for people that are obsessive like I am. I want to know what steel they used. 

People like me definitely brought the demand for knowledge of what steels are being used. Not saying it's a good or a bad thing. Its just how the internet changed things.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Feb 13, 2022)

Noodle Soup said:


> I have never spent much time trying to sharpen a Cutco blade but as far as 440A there was a time when the majority of American pocket and sporting knives were made from that alloy. I never had any problem sharpening them. As for 440C and what ever alloy Victorinox uses in their Swiss Armies (I think its 12c27 Sandvik) I spent a year in Viet Nam combat carrying a 440C custom Bowie, a Buck 110 (440A?) and a Vic pocket knife. All were kept razor sharp on a couple of little pocket hones.



If I remember right, the legendary Randall knives were in 440B and I think maybe Loveless used it some too. Buck indeed used 440A quite a lot in the early days.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 13, 2022)

It's a good thing however vast majority of people don't even care or have the desire to educate themselves about different types of steels. This forum is the exception.


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## PolishAvenger (Feb 13, 2022)

Randall's main steel was and is O1...if stainless is offered, it's 440B, I believe.
-Mark


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## coxhaus (Feb 13, 2022)

stringer said:


> I have sharpened plenty of Cutcos. My wife owned Cutcos for the first 5 years of our relationship. Lots of friends and family own them. Even in pro kitchens you will see them from time to time. All you gotta do is make sure you hit the apex with the Cutcos, just like any other soft stainless. Very high angle with a very coarse stone. This would be a good application for one of those diamond coated honing rods. And then deburr on one of those badass heirloom hard arks that you got. It would be screaming in less time than it took you to put a new belt on your gizmo. For five minutes at least unless you tried to cut something with it.
> 
> But I don't know why your KOWS wouldn't work just fine. They are most likely using belt sanders and buffers when they sharpen them in the factory. You probably just need to do a higher angle. Like 20+ dps or so. To really make sure you are getting to the edge. Sharpen it just like you would one of your old pocketknifes. But then deburr/rebuild the apex a little on a fine natural with edge leading strokes. It's not really going to be able to hold an edge very well. Like @jwthaparc is saying. But it's a steel knife so you should be able to get it plenty sharp with a clean apex.



You know it was probably the 15-degree angle which i only started using about a year or so ago. When I sharpened that other stuff it was at a higher angle. I have not gone hunting for a while nor camping. I guess getting old is creeping on me.


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## coxhaus (Feb 13, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> If I remember right, the legendary Randall knives were in 440B and I think maybe Loveless used it some too. Buck indeed used 440A quite a lot in the early days.


I have some old Bucks I think pre 70s were 440C just like Puma. I bought both. The 440c Bucks I believe had a reddish color spacer on the straight knives. Then Buck started using 420 steel. I am thinking straight knives. I am not sure on folding knives.


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## WildBoar (Feb 13, 2022)

stringer said:


> And then came the, "can you sharpen my knives? They were so awesome when I got them but now they are dull. They are Cutcos."


Ah, so THAT'S what they mean by "free lifetime sharpening"


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## PolishAvenger (Feb 13, 2022)

Buck nixed 440C in the very early 80's....then shifted to 425....then 420HC.
-Mark


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## HumbleHomeCook (Feb 13, 2022)

PolishAvenger said:


> Buck nixed 440C in the very early 80's....then shifted to 425....then 420HC.
> -Mark



Thanks for keeping us straight sir. I'm not that great with the early histories.


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## PolishAvenger (Feb 13, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Thanks for keeping us straight sir. I'm not that great with the early histories.


Lol! Sometimes all my gray cells are good at is history!
-Mark


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## HumbleHomeCook (Feb 13, 2022)

PolishAvenger said:


> Lol! Sometimes all my gray cells are good at is history!
> -Mark



Sometimes all my gray hairs cause me to forget it!
-Erik


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 13, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> If I remember right, the legendary Randall knives were in 440B and I think maybe Loveless used it some too. Buck indeed used 440A quite a lot in the early days.


And I used a Randall No. 15 for a while but that one was too thick behind the edge. Sharp or not, it never cut very well in the jungle.


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## HalfBloodHobbit (Feb 13, 2022)

Noodle Soup said:


> Ok, maybe its because I'm as old as dirt but when I started out working with knives and other cutlery, something like 52-54 Rc was considered pretty standard. Custom maker all bragged about having blades in the 58 Rc range. Anything harder was considered brittle and too hard for field use. I don't consider Rc 56 to be "butter" soft. It's plenty hard enough for a lot of everyday uses. If you can't sharpen it its because of your sharpening skills not the knife.



56 HRC is very soft when it comes to kitchen use, it's something you should expect from a $30 beater line knife not a $150 Chef's knife, even camp knives meant for chopping and batoning wood in basic 1095 CroVan or 52100 are taken to 58-60 hrc these days. Toughness isn't as much of an issue in the kitchen as it is in the field, and Custom makers nowadays are pushing high speed high carbide tool steels likeK390 & CPM 15V past 67 hrc and Rex 121 past 70 HRC without serious brittleness issues in the field. 440A has terrible edge retention compared to current industry standards (ie a Tojiro DP that's almost half the price of Cutco) but it's super easy to sharpen, like 60 seconds on a 400 grit Naniwa Pro or Shapton and a few passes on a strop from dull to shaving hair.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 14, 2022)

Agree that for kitchen use thinner grinds & harder steel are the way to go. Most of my kitchen knives are thin carbon steel. At work & at home need at least one beater knife for ribs, taking seeds out of avocados, stuff you wouldn't use a thin edge knife for. 

I used CCK Kau Kong chopper at work for banquet platters of ginger chicken has to go through chicken bones. Carbon steel about 56hrt. Edge may dent some but can always sharpen up again. Only work cleaver I kept.
Have even used it chopping flats of turf grass into plugs. Frontal grind shot of CCK 






Just got a carbon 10" Sabatier. Been using it for making guacamole local avocados, pork ribs,. cutting semi frozen salmon filet. It's taking on a light blue natural patina. 56hrt both these softer carbon blades can take a very sharp edge.


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## Jovidah (Feb 14, 2022)

HalfBloodHobbit said:


> 56 HRC is very soft when it comes to kitchen use, it's something you should expect from a $30 beater line knife not a $150 Chef's knife, even camp knives meant for chopping and batoning wood in basic 1095 CroVan or 52100 are taken to 58-60 hrc these days. Toughness isn't as much of an issue in the kitchen as it is in the field, and Custom makers nowadays are pushing high speed high carbide tool steels likeK390 & CPM 15V past 67 hrc and Rex 121 past 70 HRC without serious brittleness issues in the field. 440A has terrible edge retention compared to current industry standards (ie a Tojiro DP that's almost half the price of Cutco) but it's super easy to sharpen, like 60 seconds on a 400 grit Naniwa Pro or Shapton and a few passes on a strop from dull to shaving hair.


You're missing his point. The frame of reference has shifted, the bar has been raised. Yesterday's high-end is today's mid-end or considered 'soft trash'.
When not too long ago such stuff was the norm. Even today the majority of knives are probably still in this range.
For all practical purposes its fine... we've just become massive snobs.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 14, 2022)

Yep & before stainless for centuries man used carbon steel. Even in Chinatown here on large round cutting blocks they cut up duck & pork with quality grind Chinese carbon cleavers. 

The fresh fish that I buy is gutted by the seller with a very sharp carbon blade. 

I'll take softer carbon over softer stainless any day. Then again use carbon razor sharp gardening tools from Japan, not the crap they sell at big box stores. Kitchen knives have a Tanaka ginsan & a R2 stainless knife for the misses. Also have a 3040 stainless cleaver. 

The rest are either stainless clad carbon core or full on carbons.


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## BoSharpens (Feb 14, 2022)

Noodle Soup said "I spent a year in Viet Nam combat carrying a 440C custom Bowie, a Buck 110 (440A?) and a Vic pocket knife. All were kept razor sharp on a couple of little pocket hones."

Home chefs don't understand how easy it is to keep edges real sharp with hand stones. I've prepared a pdf for my customers to try to get them interested in doing it themselves.


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## stringer (Feb 14, 2022)

BoSharpens said:


> Noodle Soup said "I spent a year in Viet Nam combat carrying a 440C custom Bowie, a Buck 110 (440A?) and a Vic pocket knife. All were kept razor sharp on a couple of little pocket hones."
> 
> Home chefs don't understand how easy it is to keep edges real sharp with hand stones. I've prepared a pdf for my customers to try to get them interested in doing it themselves.



I agree 100%. I have bench sized stones but they are an unnecessary luxury. I love smaller naturals for quick touchups.


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## Jovidah (Feb 14, 2022)

I think with my level of clumsyness and dysfunctional motor skills I'd just end up turning my water stones into blood stones.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 14, 2022)

Have used this as carry sharpener.



I'm surprised slip stones are not discussed here at all. Guess because Kitchen Knife Forum. 
Slip stones come in all shapes & sizes. I sharpened my ice carving chisels for years using slip stones need for those V chisels and gouges. Same with wood chisels. For flat use regular sharpening stone. Slips are good for large blades where the blade is held stationary as the stone moves. Carbon steel Japan shears.


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## stringer (Feb 14, 2022)

Here's some of my little ones.


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## HalfBloodHobbit (Feb 14, 2022)

Jovidah said:


> You're missing his point. The frame of reference has shifted, the bar has been raised. Yesterday's high-end is today's mid-end or considered 'soft trash'.
> When not too long ago such stuff was the norm. Even today the majority of knives are probably still in this range.
> For all practical purposes its fine... we've just become massive snobs.



No I understood his point perfectly, the point was that Cutco is doing the equivalent of selling a 480p rear projection box tv for the price of a 4k flat screen, even two decades ago that old tech wasn't good, but they're charging modern cutting edge prices for it currently. With VG-10 becoming entry level steel at the sub $90 price point, there comes a certain level of steel quality and grind to be expected for a $150-160 knife.


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 14, 2022)

HalfBloodHobbit said:


> No I understood his point perfectly, the point was that Cutco is doing the equivalent of selling a 480p rear projection box tv for the price of a 4k flat screen, even two decades ago that old tech wasn't good, but they're charging modern cutting edge prices for it currently. With VG-10 becoming entry level steel at the sub $90 price point, there comes a certain level of steel quality and grind to be expected for a $150-160 knife.





HalfBloodHobbit said:


> No I understood his point perfectly, the point was that Cutco is doing the equivalent of selling a 480p rear projection box tv for the price of a 4k flat screen, even two decades ago that old tech wasn't good, but they're charging modern cutting edge prices for it currently. With VG-10 becoming entry level steel at the sub $90 price point, there comes a certain level of steel quality and grind to be expected for a $150-160 knife.



I started looking for your Rex 121 steel in knives. It seems to have been around for a while (I know Farid and his folders very well, but that is another story) but there really doesn't seem to be very many people using it. If it is the latest answer I wonder why more aren't using it. I'm guessing you certainly won't see the old line Japanese smith messing with it.


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## blokey (Feb 14, 2022)

Noodle Soup said:


> I started looking for your Rex 121 steel in knives. It seems to have been around for a while (I know Farid and his folders very well, but that is another story) but there really doesn't seem to be very many people using it. If it is the latest answer I wonder why more aren't using it. I'm guessing you certainly won't see the old line Japanese smith messing with it.


It's expensive and have one of the lowest toughness in knife steels, the carbide structure is huge, for a thin kitchen knife is kind extreme, most people even professionals wouldn't be able to use it properly. The extreme edge retention also comes with extreme difficulty to sharpen. It really aren't the last answer for a more balanced kitchen knife, more of extreme steel focus only on one aspect. One of few kitchen knife people offers it I know is Markin, he does it in San Mai. 








Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist - Toughness, Edge Retention, and Corrosion Resistance - Knife Steel Nerds


Steel Metallurgist Larrin Thomas uses tests of knife steels to rate the steels and explains the factors that control performance.




knifesteelnerds.com


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 15, 2022)

Balance is important in kitchen knives. Good grind, ease of sharpening. Some of the steels hyped & rather pricy don't work as well as a good all around. R2 is popular with many better stainless knives for good reason it works well.


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 15, 2022)

blokey said:


> It's expensive and have one of the lowest toughness in knife steels, the carbide structure is huge, for a thin kitchen knife is kind extreme, most people even professionals wouldn't be able to use it properly. The extreme edge retention also comes with extreme difficulty to sharpen. It really aren't the last answer for a more balanced kitchen knife, more of extreme steel focus only on one aspect. One of few kitchen knife people offers it I know is Markin, he does it in San Mai.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Certainly doesn't sound like a steel that would work well in a Cutco knife.


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## coxhaus (Feb 15, 2022)

PolishAvenger said:


> Buck nixed 440C in the very early 80's....then shifted to 425....then 420HC.
> -Mark


I must of missed the 425 years. How many years did Buck use 425 steel?

Never mind I googled it. It was 11 years.


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## PolishAvenger (Feb 15, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I must of missed the 425 years. How many years did Buck use 425 steel?


Something like 12 or 13?
-Mark


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## HalfBloodHobbit (Feb 15, 2022)

blokey said:


> It's expensive and have one of the lowest toughness in knife steels, the carbide structure is huge, for a thin kitchen knife is kind extreme, most people even professionals wouldn't be able to use it properly. The extreme edge retention also comes with extreme difficulty to sharpen. It really aren't the last answer for a more balanced kitchen knife, more of extreme steel focus only on one aspect. One of few kitchen knife people offers it I know is Markin, he does it in San Mai.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The carbide structure of Rex 121 is bigger than 15V or ZMax, but still smaller than ZDP-189, it's sharpenable with diamond abrasives particularly if you have Venevs or even better super vitirified diamond stones. There are a number of makers that really excel at high carbide PM steels, from relatively newer makers like Troopah who's putting out stuff in ZMax to makers like Triple B who exclusively use the highest carbide PM steels including Rex 121, 15V and Maxamet. IMO Zmax seems to be the best option for high carbide high wear resistant PM steels with a fine enough grain structure and elasticity to be diamond stone and cutting board friendly. For those just with Shapton/Naniwa Pros or any other ceramic based synthetics, CPM M4 or Vanadis 8 seem to be the upper end of carbide density and wear resistance that are still manageable. 10V has been a pain in the ass for me to sharpen on Shaptons, but isn't a pain on Venevs.


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## HalfBloodHobbit (Feb 15, 2022)

Noodle Soup said:


> I started looking for your Rex 121 steel in knives. It seems to have been around for a while (I know Farid and his folders very well, but that is another story) but there really doesn't seem to be very many people using it. If it is the latest answer I wonder why more aren't using it. I'm guessing you certainly won't see the old line Japanese smith messing with it.



You can't heat treat any of these super high carbide PM steels with traditional methods, so you won't see any Japanese smiths using them at least for kitchen knives. Personally I wouldn't want a kitchen knife in Rex 121, though I am planning on ordering one in ZMax from Troopah.


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## birdsfan (May 27, 2022)

I hate to revive this necro thread......

But one of my servers' son is selling Cutcos and she asked me to listen to his presentation tomorrow after service. He has no idea what he has just gotten himself into.


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## M1k3 (May 28, 2022)

birdsfan said:


> I hate to revive this necro thread......
> 
> But one of my servers' son is selling Cutcos and she asked me to listen to his presentation tomorrow after service. He has no idea what he has just gotten himself into.


I hope you can record it. Video would be my first choice, but I'll accept audio.


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## blokey (May 28, 2022)

birdsfan said:


> I hate to revive this necro thread......
> 
> But one of my servers' son is selling Cutcos and she asked me to listen to his presentation tomorrow after service. He has no idea what he has just gotten himself into.


Don’t go too harsh on the poor kid, but yeah I want a recording too.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 28, 2022)

Pyramid schemes my sister had some Cutco's before I gave her couple Japanese knives & taught her how to sharpen.

Back in my single days a girl tried to get me into Amway. Remember going to a lock & load pep rally. Also remember more interested in scoring with the girl. She had gotten some potato chips from Amway they were stale.


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## Brian Weekley (May 28, 2022)

Hmmmm … seems to me the most dangerous animals in the world are momma animals who are protecting their offspring. Even the compliant and docile cow kills many people each year when they think their calf is threatened. 

You might think about going easy on the son … buy a knife from him and gift it to one of your front of house staff. Succumb to your temptations and the least result may be you are down a server.

Just saying!


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## tostadas (May 28, 2022)

birdsfan said:


> I hate to revive this necro thread......
> 
> But one of my servers' son is selling Cutcos and she asked me to listen to his presentation tomorrow after service. He has no idea what he has just gotten himself into.


I'll be anxiously waiting for your custom handled Cutco post in the "sticks" thread.


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## birdsfan (May 28, 2022)

That is sage wisdom Brian. Perhaps I will follow your advice. Or maybe I will buy one of those kick ass peelers that @stringer referenced earlier in the thread. I will have time to decide. My would-be Cutco sales rep called to postpone our meeting. It seems the improving weather drew him to the beach for the weekend.


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## birdsfan (May 28, 2022)

@tostadas You want me to mess with the patented thermo resin "sure-grip" handle? You know....that stuff is the same material they make football helmets out of? (ahhhh flashbacks from my Vector Marketing days in college)


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## tostadas (May 28, 2022)

birdsfan said:


> @tostadas You want me to mess with the patented thermo resin "sure-grip" handle? You know....that stuff is the same material they make football helmets out of? (ahhhh flashbacks from my Vector Marketing days in college)


O man high tech stuff. I bet it's probably also used on the Mars rover too. Maybe salvage all the valuable stuff first.


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## jjlotti (May 28, 2022)

Emmmmm......if you feel obligated to to buy one their 6 inch serated petty is a great knife (and no damn way your gonna want to sharpen that boy so their free service offer actually works for that
) ..... Karmas gonna have your guy extra annoying good luck...they aways amuse at Costco


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## Justinv (May 28, 2022)

birdsfan said:


> Or maybe I will buy one of those kick ass peelers that @stringer referenced earlier in the thread.



You should definitely rehandle the peeler!


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## jjlotti (May 29, 2022)

stringer said:


> Americans are drawn to pyramid schemes like ants to a picnic. The only thing better than letting somebody talk you into spending your money on something stupid is getting the opportunity to spread the love and try and get your friends and family to follow your folly.


Emmmm pretty sure Euros and Asians dig Hula Hoops.. Human nature bruda....worst part of that mentality are the chain restaurants here in the states....


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## stringer (May 29, 2022)

jjlotti said:


> Emmmm pretty sure Euros and Asians dig Hula Hoops.. Human nature bruda....worst part of that mentality are the chain restaurants here in the states....


Yeah. I just read that Amway is banking heavily on expanding their MLMs into China and India. Setting up huge manufacturing capacity to make their products closer to where they are pushing them.


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## jwthaparc (May 30, 2022)

I definitely want an update when the presentation finally happens.


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