# Yoshikane differences?



## deskjockey (Sep 16, 2021)

From the more experienced I see in this forum, Yoshikane gets a lot of praise for a knife in its price "class". Konosuke also gets high praise which apparently includes some Yoshikane models with a bit more final fit and polish in their line as well.

As I look around the web at these knives, I'm not seeing a lot of retail options, and contrasting different models within the Yoshikane line is not easy. Further, I have read a few comments like the one from DaveB whom I respect, that commented the "dimpled Yoshikane I used was piggish" (maybe not 100% exact but, close ).

Where are the better places to shop for Yoshikane knives? Within Yoshikane's kitchen knife range, how do they compare amongst themselves? Are there any particular real stand-outs that are significantly better than others at a similar price or specific models within the range that were a letdown as referenced in DaveB's post?

TIA,
Sid


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## deskjockey (Sep 16, 2021)

I should also note, I am specifically looking at the longer Gyuto (240mm or greater) and possibly a Santoku or short Gyuto (180mm) for normal home kitchen uses mainly on lots of produce for stews and various side dishes.


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## chefwp (Sep 16, 2021)

It is a challenge to find them in stock, that is for sure. 
I had a 240 in W2, pear skin finish, no real complaints, a fantastic knife, I sold it to get something I hoped would be better... The person I sold it to is over the moon with it.
I have a 210 in SKD, also pear skin, love this one, gonna keep it for a long time I have a feeling.
The brand has its detractors, mostly I've seen complaints about the flat-ish profile near the heel, it doesn't mesh with some folks, my cutting style does not seem to be bothered by it.
I mostly see 210 and 240 gyutos on offer, the options seem to be between W2 and SKD, hammer finish or pear skin.  epic edge seems to offer a wider variety than anyone else I've seen for offerings beyond what I just mentioned, you may want to explore that. Other than that, keep an eye on what these guys have in stock:
Knives and Stones
Kniferoll
The Cook's Edge


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## RevJoe (Sep 16, 2021)

I own a Yoshikane Hamono white #2 Nashiji 240 gyuto, SS cladding. It original came from knife roll. Sharp as hell and have not had to sharpen it yet. I mostly use yoshi bunka for veggies. Yoshikane 180 bunka white#2 black ku course Nashiji finish. It's all carbon. Cuts great and sharp as hell. Have not had to sharpen it yet either. But I am just a home cook. I got the bunka at clean cut.


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## Delat (Sep 16, 2021)

I have a Yoshi k-tip 210mm hammered SKD from Epic Edge. It’s very thin and light, around 140g. Definitely laserish if not an outright laser (I don’t have a commonly acknowledged laser like a Shibata or Takamura to compare). Cutting feel is similar to my Kurosaki AS, although the Yoshi feels more delicate overall and the edge certainly is delicate. F&F is fine for the price range, the spine and choil are rounded and no complaints about the handle. The long flat spot suits my cutting style, but some people hate it.

I’ve seen different comments on the Yoshi Amekiri from JNS - some say it’s even thinner than the EE version, others say it’s thicker. Purely based on weight it’s heavier, but a chunk of that difference is likely due to the handle JNS handle. JNS also has the Hatsukokoro-sourced Yoshis now to help meet demand, apparently made to match Yoshi’s specs exactly.


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## daniel_il (Sep 16, 2021)

i had the Amekiri white steel and sold it for nashiji SKD( Hatsukokoro ). both top F&F.

i think the skd is the way to go. take a great edge and very easy to care.

the EE hammered version is a bit thicker according to reports, also comes with more basic handle.


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## silylanjie (Sep 16, 2021)

I also have the Yoshikane Gyuto K-tip 210mm from epic edge and it's very nice knife. Unfortunately, Epic Edge won't re-stocking more from this line of knives due increase in pricing.


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## tcmx3 (Sep 16, 2021)

youve asked around for like 100 different things I suggest you decide what it is you actually want then the right knife will reveal itself.

all the Yoshis are fine and more similar than they are different. 

I would not put them in the first or second tier of knives Ive owned but what does that mean other than I value other things?


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## WellLikedTurtle (Sep 16, 2021)

I have the Ai and Om SKD tsuchime 210GT. It's a fantastic cutter. This spec was a lower price, it had the basic d handle (which is comfy and well polished... just basic) and a bit of a rougher choil. I ended up easing and polishing the choil as well as installing a konosuke ebony+laurel handle on mine to bring it to the next level.

I heard Ai and Om has ordered some, but the wait might still be years.


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## hukdizzle (Sep 16, 2021)

I actually picked up an Ameriki 240 SKD and it seemed to have a much more flat back profile than the knife roll W2 240 I just got off BST. I do think there are slight differences for sure. Literally my only two gripes with Yoshikane gyutos is their lack of height (A 240 is going to be 49mm-50mm no matter where you go and what steel they use), and the extremely flat back/heel profile that leads to awkward board work. This of course could be sharpening out slightly but I just wish he would throw a slight upright kick for the last 2-3cm and it would make a work of difference in the board work for the majority of folks.


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## deskjockey (Sep 16, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> youve asked around for like 100 different things I suggest you decide what it is you actually want then the right knife will reveal itself.
> ...



Pretty harsh. If I lived in an area of the world where I could actually see a few blue Gyuto in person, my Gehei and Heiji answers would be obvious and perhaps I would understand the differences better when I read conflicting statements from people I respect and would see the differences in their use and how that shades their views. Laser versus workhorse is basically a similar situation with experience only with a laser and various German-themed knives. And yes, I intend to get a "blue workhorse" but, before I pull the trigger this is a knife line I wanted to explore a little before I spend my money. 

For what I am doing, I have read something like this is midway between a laser and a workhorse so, it might be a better option for me. Whether I get a Santoku or small Gyuto is a different discussion for different uses and a different day when I have some experience with something other than my laser Gyuto. My considerations there (Santoku or small Gyuto) are mainly not significantly overlapping knife purchases


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## daveb (Sep 16, 2021)

I'm an unabashed Yoshi fan. To me they feel like they were made for me and for that I consider them the "best" off the shelf knife available.

As noted, I've commented in the past that I don't like the dimpled version offered by EE. "Piggish" was not my word but it fit. Bear in mind this was based on an example from 3 - 5 years ago.

I have a "Zensho" 210 from Maxim that I like a lot. Had a western handled 240, also from Maxim, that I lost in a loan - would give someone's left nut to replace it. Bought a 240 Kashima from Clean Cut that was close to perfect, then a white Amekiri from K&S that replaced it. Most recently bought the CKC SKD variant from BST. By a slight margin it may be the best of the bunch (to me). Laying around I have a V2 honesuki (a joy to use and sharpen) and a hunting knife that will turn a deer inside out in a minute.

Shopping for one, I'll suggest K&S, CKC, CC, Knife Roll and I would try EE again.


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## Jason183 (Sep 16, 2021)

hukdizzle said:


> I actually picked up an Ameriki 240 SKD and it seemed to have a much more flat back profile than the knife roll W2 240 I just got off BST. I do think there are slight differences for sure. Literally my only two gripes with Yoshikane gyutos is their lack of height (A 240 is going to be 49mm-50mm no matter where you go and what steel they use), and the extremely flat back/heel profile that leads to awkward board work. This of course could be sharpening out slightly but I just wish he would throw a slight upright kick for the last 2-3cm and it would make a work of difference in the board work for the majority of folks.


I saw @*Hz_zzzzzz posted a link few days ago, there is 55mm taller version of Yoshikane.


https://www.thesharpcook.com/product/yoshikane-skd-nashiji-kiritsuke-240mm/


*


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## daveb (Sep 16, 2021)

Yoshi height:

When I got into this nonsense, using a suji on the board like a gyuto was the fad de jour and small makers were offering gyuhiki that were wellreceived. The only major maker offering "tall" gyuto was Takeda. Yoshi was cranking out 48 - 50mm 240s.

10 years later 55mm and more are the fad and widely available while Yoshi is still cranking out 48 - 50s.

If you like a taller knife, or one that's not flat, you'll be well served to look for another. Classics (hopefully) don't need to change.


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## hukdizzle (Sep 16, 2021)

Jason183 said:


> I saw @*Hz_zzzzzz posted a link few days ago, there is 55mm taller version of Yoshikane.
> 
> 
> https://www.thesharpcook.com/product/yoshikane-skd-nashiji-kiritsuke-240mm/
> ...



Wild, I wish it wasn't a k tip!

Ya know, I picked up an EE Yoshi SKD 180 Santoku and the heel height on that thing is like 57mm!

To be honest I don't really mind a 50mm 240, but after a couple of years and sharpenings it is no longer 50mm tall and anything shorter starts to become undesired for me.


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## deskjockey (Sep 16, 2021)

Jason183 said:


> I saw @*Hz_zzzzzz posted a link few days ago, there is 55mm taller version of Yoshikane.
> 
> 
> https://www.thesharpcook.com/product/yoshikane-skd-nashiji-kiritsuke-240mm/
> ...



I have mixed feelings looking at the Kiritsuke version but, I have never held one in my hands and realize Internet pictures can be misleading. At 404 Euros (not sure if that includes VAT or not for a shipment to the USA), it is a bit spendy for me today.


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## tcmx3 (Sep 16, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> Pretty harsh.



if you dont have a set of clear criteria for what you want, the likelihood you'll be happy when you buy something is fairly low.

Im suggesting you have questions you need to answer before you start asking for specifics, because what happens around here if you're not super explicit is people just post what they like without much consideration. 

I do, for what it's worth, understand how I come off sometimes, but the thing is I actually care here if you get something that makes you happy, because if I were asking for advice Id rather have someone tell me something useful, than tell me something that makes me feel good.


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## deskjockey (Sep 16, 2021)

hukdizzle said:


> Wild, I wish it wasn't a k tip!
> 
> Ya know, I picked up an EE Yoshi SKD 180 Santoku and the heel height on that thing is like 57mm!
> 
> To be honest I don't really mind a 50mm 240, but after a couple of years and sharpenings it is no longer 50mm tall and anything shorter starts to become undesired for me.



That was the dimpled version of the Santoku that was 57mm tall? That would certainly tempt me if I was looking to buy a Santoku/short Gyuto.

K-tip Gyuto certainly seem trendy today and I am unsure why. Maybe I'm just old school but, that sharply pointed tip looks fragile to me.


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## hukdizzle (Sep 16, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> That was the dimpled version of the Santoku that was 57mm tall? That would certainly tempt me if I was looking to buy a Santoku/short Gyuto.
> 
> K-tip Gyuto certainly seem trendy today and I am unsure why. Maybe I'm just old school but, that sharply pointed tip looks fragile to me.



Correct! Although I might have some how ended up with an outlier possibly. As the heel height listed on EE is 2.0" which is right at like 50mm.



Epicurean Edge: Japanese and European professional chefs knives



I lied though, I actually just measured mine and it's right at 55.5mm after one full sharpening progression. Still though, it's quite tall and I enjoy using it quite a lot.


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## Jason183 (Sep 16, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> I have mixed feelings looking at the Kiritsuke version but, I have never held one in my hands and realize Internet pictures can be misleading. At 404 Euros (not sure if that includes VAT or not for a shipment to the USA), it is a bit spendy for me today.


Yeah, I heard Yoshikane’s price are going up this or next year, we probably won’t see any 300 ish(240mm) Yoshikane anymore at some Yoshikane Vendors in the near future.


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## deskjockey (Sep 16, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> if you dont have a set of clear criteria for what you want, the likelihood you'll be happy when you buy something is fairly low.
> 
> Im suggesting you have questions you need to answer before you start asking for specifics, because what happens around here if you're not super explicit is people just post what they like without much consideration.
> 
> I do, for what it's worth, understand how I come off sometimes, but the thing is I actually care here if you get something that makes you happy, because if I were asking for advice Id rather have someone tell me something useful, than tell me something that makes me feel good.



Without facial expression and tone of voice, the written word in forums like this can be misinterpreted. If that's me, I apologize.

I do appreciate your desire to make sure I get something that makes me happy and serves its intended purpose. I have been trying to include more sweet potatoes in my diet but, the frustration and haphazard results of cutting them make it hard for me to buy one at the store. Baked and I aren't a good pairing so, I try to include them in soups, stews, side dishes and, similar. Carrot quality for me is all over the place but, typically they come out of the fridge to the cutting board and either "FLY" off or basically shatter as I cut them. I also want a knife with a bit more spine to whack if I need to encourage it through a tough sweet potatoe so I won't hurt the palm of my hand. A little more weight would be helpful too.


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## tcmx3 (Sep 16, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> Without facial expression and tone of voice, the written word in forums like this can be misinterpreted. If that's me, I apologize.
> 
> I do appreciate your desire to make sure I get something that makes me happy and serves its intended purpose. I have been trying to include more sweet potatoes in my diet but, the frustration and haphazard results of cutting them make it hard for me to buy one at the store. Baked and I aren't a good pairing so, I try to include them in soups, stews, side dishes and, similar. Carrot quality for me is all over the place but, typically they come out of the fridge to the cutting board and either "FLY" off or basically shatter as I cut them. I also want a knife with a bit more spine to whack if I need to encourage it through a tough sweet potatoe so I won't hurt the palm of my hand. A little more weight would be helpful too.



Id just get a nakiri, or something really thin like a Hitohira GR 210 (which is a HUGE knife for a 210, like basically 240 size), which is nakiri thin. needs some cleanup work but hard to complain for the price.

I mean this is assuming that you just want to solve the specific problem of cutting up vegetables to improve your diet, though I found the GR fine as a general purpose knife.


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## superworrier (Sep 16, 2021)

daveb said:


> I'm an unabashed Yoshi fan. To me they feel like they were made for me and for that I consider them the "best" off the shelf knife available.
> 
> As noted, I've commented in the past that I don't like the dimpled version offered by EE. "Piggish" was not my word but it fit. Bear in mind this was based on an example from 3 - 5 years ago.
> 
> ...


What does piggish mean in this context?


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## Delat (Sep 16, 2021)

superworrier said:


> What does piggish mean in this context?



Likely not applicable to the current version. Mine (purchased this year) weighs in around 140g in a 210 k-tip, most definitely in the lightweight category and with a very thin grind.

To the OP, if you’re looking for a midweight then Yoshi probably isn’t it.


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## daveb (Sep 16, 2021)

"Piggish" to me would be the opposite of nimble. I don't mind a heavy knife as long as it's well balanced. My recollection is that EE hammered was not nimble, it was thick, probably even wedge. But again, this data point was 3 - 5 years ago.

IMO the Yoshi variants from K&S, CKC, CC, are light midweights that are exceptionally thin behind the edge. The food release is sweet and no one will confuse them with a laser.


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## captaincaed (Sep 16, 2021)

The hammered 210 I got this year feels almost exactly like the nashiji 240 I got around the same time. Neither is chunky in my mind. FWIW, I love my The.9nine workhorse, but even I have to admit it's thick enough where it counts that it can wedge. Grind looks like it's in the same ballpark as heiji. Yoshi is noticeably easier to get through roots.

Hammered finish is uglier, nashiji is a little slipperier to hold onto. Epic edge, Carbon, K&S, Ryky all sell Yoshi.

It's worth pulling the trigger on a promising sounding brand to get some hands on experience. You can resell here when you're ready to move on. 

Here's both in soaked carrots.


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## chefwp (Sep 16, 2021)

I'm gonna give an extra shout out to Knives&Stones, like a lot of vendors they put the handles on the knives they sell themselves before shipping. They do a wonderful job in this area. I've ordered a lot of knives, including Yoshikanes from other retailers, where the handles need to be immediately sanded and oiled. While that is not a big deal, it is nice to get an almost perfect knife OOTB.


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## timebard (Sep 16, 2021)

I have a 210 SKD from EE and formerly had a 240 white #2 from K&S. Grinds felt similar across both, arguably a little better on the 240 thanks to extra height. Certainly the EE one is no slouch. It's about 125g so firmly on the thin middleweight end of the spectrum. I ended up selling the 240 because the heavy handle didn't work for me and I had more 240s at the time than I could justify, but I sort of regret not hanging onto it and swapping out the handle. IMO the nashiji finish looks cooler than the hammered one.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Sep 17, 2021)

The EE k tip Yoshi I showed in my video in your other thread was 51mm tall although it’s just a 210. I got it this year and it’s as thin bte if not thinner than the 240 najishi gyuto I got from KnS last year. I recommended it over other Yoshi options to you because it’s within your budget and it’s even a little taller than a regular Yoshi 240. I removed 1mm height near the heel to make the profile less dead flat and it’s still 50 mm. Very good value IMO. I use my 210 ktip more often than my 240 yoshi black dammy SLD.

If EE still has the 240 k-tip in stock I would get that one as I think it’s gonna be 53-55 tall, but unfortunately it’s out of stock forever. KnS NY told me they might get some 240 ktip in the future but there’s no date yet.


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## tomsch (Sep 19, 2021)

I managed to find a 240 SKD that's on it's way. I have a Tsoursan 240 WH that I just don't seem to use so I'm hoping that the Yoshi will be a good middle-of-the road gyuto that is still work-horse like that I can beat on daily.


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## justaute (Sep 19, 2021)

I also have a 210 SKD K-tip gyuto from EE -- real popular. It cuts very well. No wedging for me.
A few measurements:
3.25mm at heel
2.05mm at mid-blade
1.80mm at 1 cm from tip
Height at heel is 50.9mm
146g


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## captaincaed (Sep 20, 2021)

I wouldn't beat on a Yoshi, it's pretty thin


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## tomsch (Sep 20, 2021)

^^ - Good tip. I do have a couple lasers and the goal is to find a 240 that is a little bit more durable but not quite as heavy as my Tsourkan WH.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Sep 20, 2021)

tomsch said:


> ^^ - Good tip. I do have a couple lasers and the goal is to find a 240 that is a little bit more durable but not quite as heavy as my Tsourkan WH.


Seems like you are describing Toyanabe stainless clad knives, but Yoshi is also good for sure. You can probably sell some of your redundant lasers.


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## deskjockey (Sep 20, 2021)

The Nihei seems like a top pick for me at the moment with its pseudo-D2'ish steel. It is a bit more than the hammered finish SKD Yoshikane but, generally is a little cheaper than the pear finish SKD Yoshikane options.

While a bit more than the popular Heiji, the slightly convex or rounded transition between the bevel and side of the blade apparently are a good feature for better food release. The Heiji is also apparently a little heavier so, that could be better or worse depending on what you are looking for.


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## Cliff (Sep 20, 2021)

What about the Kaeru. It's got similar steel, but it's tougher.


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## superworrier (Sep 20, 2021)

Nihei is super nice. I would describe it as smooth, vs Yoshikane I would describe as more ghosting through food. I think the main difference is that the convexity is super well done, so there's no discernible shoulders. It feels like for any food, the amount of force to complete a cut is consistent. Tip works well too. Profile is pretty much exactly Yoshikane. I imagine the convexity though means thinning is necessary more often (just a guess).

Big regrets on passing up on the 240 on BST which had a super deep nashiji.


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## deskjockey (Sep 20, 2021)

Cliff said:


> What about the Kaeru. It's got similar steel, but it's tougher.



At ~$205USD with shipping to the USA, I'll think I will pass for the time being. DHL Express is a good shipper but, I'm a bit cautious with US Customs right now with more expensive things. And, it has one of the cheapest handles you can find that isn't all plastic. Weight is right in the mix though, it looks to share the Heiji profile where it would benefit with some convexing for food release and cutting instead of the hard transition from the bevel to the side of the blade.


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## Cliff (Sep 20, 2021)

It's less expensive than the others. I like those basic handles, but I can see not everyone does. It's not remotely like Heiji. It's much thinner. It doesn't have those shoulders. It's not as thin as Yoshi or Nihei, and you can work it harder.


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## deskjockey (Sep 20, 2021)

Cliff said:


> It's less expensive than the others. I like those basic handles, but I can see not everyone does. It's not remotely like Heiji. It's much thinner. It doesn't have those shoulders. It's not as thin as Yoshi or Nihei, and you can work it harder.











Kaeru Kasumi Stainless Gyuto 240mm


Selected Japanese natural sharpening stones Toishi, Handmade by Best Blade smiths Japanese Knives, Razors and Tools




www.japanesenaturalstones.com





Width of Spine at Handle- 4,6mm
Width of Spine Above Heel-3,5mm
Width of Spine at Middle- 2mm
Width of Spine 1cm from the tip- 1mm
weight: 180g 









Nihei SLD Nashiji Gyuto 240mm


Nihei knives are produced in Fukushima, Japan by former apprentice of Yoshikane Hamono, the talented Takahiro Nihei. Forged from SLD tool steel rated at 64hrc with a soft stainless cladding. SLD is considered a semi stainless steel, though not as reactive as more pure high carbon steels, it may...




carbonknifeco.com





Edge length: 247mm
Height at heel: 51mm
Thickness above heel: 3.6mm
Weight: 186g

Yes, they do look pretty similar from the specs.


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## tcmx3 (Sep 20, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> Kaeru Kasumi Stainless Gyuto 240mm
> 
> 
> Selected Japanese natural sharpening stones Toishi, Handmade by Best Blade smiths Japanese Knives, Razors and Tools
> ...



you have people who've owned them telling you that's not the case Im not sure quoting the spec sheet back at people is the way to go here.


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## deskjockey (Sep 20, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> you have people who've owned them telling you that's not the case Im not sure quoting the spec sheet back at people is the way to go here.


I'm not trying to argue or insult anyone. What I would like to know is if the specs I'm reviewing are not accurate because I could be mistakingly looking at a different knife or, the specs themselves could be wrong. Without actually handling them in person, subjective opinions and explicit specifications are all I have to go on. And, JNS specifications are a bit thin so, it is possible someone who owns one could add some details from their own measurements.

And to be clear, I do appreciate everyone's opinion even if it is different than my own

The Nihei is in stock in the USA, a similar Yoshikane is OOS for the same price. The Kaeru has similar specs I think with a plainer finish and is in the EU for less money which is tempting if I don't get sucked into the cosmetics or hold out for the Yoshikane. I have been told the Yoshikane restocks will come in at a higher price which is giving the nod to the Nihei though, with the Kaeru at the same weight I'm unsure how much difference in actual use there is.


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## esoo (Sep 20, 2021)

The Nihei/Yoshikane grind is completely different than the Kaeru grind (at least the SLD one I had). The Kaeru I had I would've called the j-knife version of my dad's Henkel's 4-star.

The Yoshi's I've had (supposedly the Kono YS-M and the Yoshi Amekiri) and Nihei (in the form of a Kono Sumiiro Bunka) had grinds that would run circles around a Kaeru. The Kaeru was not even close to the same league with the Yoshi/Nihei being among the best cutters I've handled.

The only way to truly understand how a knife may or may not cut is to use it. That may result in buying blindly and then selling on the BST. Part of the reason I''ve bought and sold around 30 knives over the last 3 years.


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## daveb (Sep 20, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> you have people who've owned them



Don't mind Richard, he's trying to sorta help..... And he's right that there's more to a knife than a spec sheet. The Kaeru is a solid entry level knife that will fit everyone a little bit. The Nihei is likely to be for someone that knows a little bit about what they want from a knife and provides for that niche. I'm not sure how many apprentices Yoshikane has had but everyone I've tried has been a great knife (to me). Thin and flat. Like my gf, the supermodel


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## captaincaed (Sep 20, 2021)

I've been tricked by spec sheets before. I had a very kind vendor try and dissuade me from buying a knife that didn't fit my needs, based on the conversation. I bought it anyway. It became a gift to a relative, then I bought one that he recommended. All to say, there is a qualitative difference between the numbers that's part of the joy of nicer knives. People here love to share their experiences, and I don't think anyone here has an interest in any particular shop or line of knives. Anyway, happy hunting!

FWIW, Nihei apparently learned at the Yoshikane shop (from the description you linked), so I'd expect those knives to be damn thin. Another Yoshikane apprentice, Masashi, makes knives with the thinnest tips I've ever seen. Very delicate, but screaming performers if you use the kid gloves.


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## M1k3 (Sep 20, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> I've been tricked by spec sheets before. I had a very kind vendor try and dissuade me from buying a knife that didn't fit my needs, based on the conversation. I bought it anyway. It became a gift to a relative, then I bought one that he recommended. All to say, there is a qualitative difference between the numbers that's part of the joy of nicer knives. People here love to share their experiences, and I don't think anyone here has an interest in any particular shop or line of knives. Anyway, happy hunting!
> 
> FWIW, Nihei apparently learned at the Yoshikane shop (from the description you linked), so I'd expect those knives to be damn thin. Another Yoshikane apprentice, Masashi, makes knives with the thinnest tips I've ever seen. Very delicate, but screaming performers if you use the kid gloves.


Kaeru Workhorse. Website says 240 grams. Had one at 311 grams.


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## Delat (Sep 21, 2021)

Tomoo Matsumura at Tojiro Atelier is another smith who trained with Kazuomi Yamamoto of Yoshikane. He’s making knives under the Hatsukokoro sub-brand of Tojiro Atelier (small-scale “craftsman” style single-smith-crafted section of Tojiro). Hatsukokoro is also apparently making knives for Yoshikane to Yoshi specs sold at JNS (not sure if that was already mentioned in this thread).

But for knives sold under the Hatsukokoro brand I’d say they’re a bit thicker and tougher than my Yoshi SKD, with a convex instead of concave grind, and somewhat similar profile with a long flat spot. I really like the AS gyuto I have from them.


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## tostadas (Sep 21, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> I'm not trying to argue or insult anyone. What I would like to know is if the specs I'm reviewing are not accurate because I could be mistakingly looking at a different knife or, the specs themselves could be wrong. Without actually handling them in person, subjective opinions and explicit specifications are all I have to go on. And, JNS specifications are a bit thin so, it is possible someone who owns one could add some details from their own measurements.
> 
> And to be clear, I do appreciate everyone's opinion even if it is different than my own
> 
> The Nihei is in stock in the USA, a similar Yoshikane is OOS for the same price. The Kaeru has similar specs I think with a plainer finish and is in the EU for less money which is tempting if I don't get sucked into the cosmetics or hold out for the Yoshikane. I have been told the Yoshikane restocks will come in at a higher price which is giving the nod to the Nihei though, with the Kaeru at the same weight I'm unsure how much difference in actual use there is.


Spine thickness can only tell you so much about a knife. The part that has the most effect on the cutting performance is the thickness/grind of the knife immediately behind the edge, and those measurements are generally not included in any vendor spec sheets.

Similarly, without information about the grind, the weight also provides only a bit of info. It really depends where that weight is. For example, if you grind a knife and take off 5g behind the edge, it would probably make a significant impact. However, if you were to say take that 5g off from the spine, or from the tang, there would be virtually no difference in performance.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's easy to get caught up in thickness and weights, but in my opinion, they don't mean a whole lot when using them to infer difference in performance between makers.


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## Jason183 (Sep 21, 2021)

If I’m choosing between 2 Yoshikanes, I would be looking at the spec sheet for the personal preference. Sometimes it can vary between different batches.

My first Yoshikane was Hatsukokoro brand, 4mm+ on the heel spine with 240mm edge length, it wedges on carrots. My 2nd Yoshikane (Kono YS) 3.2 mm at the heel spine with 245 mm edge length, does have thinner cutting feel and goes through carrots more smooth.

liked others have said, spec sheet won’t be helpful if those two knives have different kind of grinds.


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## deskjockey (Sep 21, 2021)

esoo said:


> The Nihei/Yoshikane grind is completely different than the Kaeru grind (at least the SLD one I had). The Kaeru I had I would've called the j-knife version of my dad's Henkel's 4-star.
> 
> The Yoshi's I've had (supposedly the Kono YS-M and the Yoshi Amekiri) and Nihei (in the form of a Kono Sumiiro Bunka) had grinds that would run circles around a Kaeru. The Kaeru was not even close to the same league with the Yoshi/Nihei being among the best cutters I've handled.
> 
> The only way to truly understand how a knife may or may not cut is to use it. That may result in buying blindly and then selling on the BST. Part of the reason I''ve bought and sold around 30 knives over the last 3 years.



Thank you Esso! Without owning a Kaeru or Heiji, it really hard to know what one is buying without actually holding it in person. Your posts strongly suggest the Kaeru is one purchase I should avoid.


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## deskjockey (Sep 21, 2021)

daveb said:


> Don't mind Richard, he's trying to sorta help..... And he's right that there's more to a knife than a spec sheet. The Kaeru is a solid entry level knife that will fit everyone a little bit. The Nihei is likely to be for someone that knows a little bit about what they want from a knife and provides for that niche. I'm not sure how many apprentices Yoshikane has had but everyone I've tried has been a great knife (to me). Thin and flat. Like my gf, the supermodel



*Yes, I totally get a spec sheet only telling me a small part of the story!* It is a bit like saying a motorcycle has a certain horsepower, torque, or weight. Two that weigh the same can have vastly different handling. Same with engine power with a V-Twin crushing it off the line versus a high strung triple or inline-four screaming at redline.

However, a spec sheet is one empirical data point to consider in an initial screening to down select a smaller number for further consideration.

Now, to find that SUPERMODEL knife!


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## Delat (Sep 21, 2021)

Jason183 said:


> If I’m choosing between 2 Yoshikanes, I would be looking at the spec sheet for the personal preference. Sometimes it can vary between different batches.
> 
> My first Yoshikane was Hatsukokoro brand, 4mm+ on the heel spine with 240mm edge length, it wedges on carrots. My 2nd Yoshikane (Kono YS) 3.2 mm at the heel spine with 245 mm edge length, does have thinner cutting feel and goes through carrots more smooth.
> 
> liked others have said, spec sheet won’t be helpful if those two knives have different kind of grinds.



Was that the “Hatsukokoro by Yoshikane” from JNS? I just checked my Yoshi 210 SKD from EE and it’s 3.6mm at the heel. I was surprised to see that it’s my thickest knife measured at that point! It’s my smoothest, lightest cutter and doesn’t wedge on carrots at all.

My Hatsukokoro Inazuma (i.e. not the Yoshi version) is actually around 2.4mm at the same point, but due to the slightly thicker convex grind has a bit more resistance through food.


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## deskjockey (Sep 21, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> I've been tricked by spec sheets before. I had a very kind vendor try and dissuade me from buying a knife that didn't fit my needs, based on the conversation. I bought it anyway. It became a gift to a relative, then I bought one that he recommended. All to say, there is a qualitative difference between the numbers that's part of the joy of nicer knives. People here love to share their experiences, and I don't think anyone here has an interest in any particular shop or line of knives. Anyway, happy hunting!
> 
> FWIW, Nihei apparently learned at the Yoshikane shop (from the description you linked), so I'd expect those knives to be damn thin. Another Yoshikane apprentice, Masashi, makes knives with the thinnest tips I've ever seen. Very delicate, but screaming performers if you use the kid gloves.



Yep, *spec sheet only analysis can lead one to make a poor choice for the task at hand*. I had a nice chat with CKC about the Nihei and a couple of other knives and that certainly reinforced my thoughts about the Nihei being a good option for me.


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## Jason183 (Sep 21, 2021)

Delat said:


> Was that the “Hatsukokoro by Yoshikane” from JNS? I just checked my Yoshi 210 SKD from EE and it’s 3.6mm at the heel. I was surprised to see that it’s my thickest knife measured at that point! It’s my smoothest, lightest cutter and doesn’t wedge on carrots at all.
> 
> My Hatsukokoro Inazuma (i.e. not the Yoshi version) is actually around 2.4mm at the same point, but due to the slightly thicker convex grind has a bit more resistance through food.


The Hatsukokoro one I had was from the knife roll, liked you described, more thicker and tougher, a little bit more workhorse feel to it.


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## deskjockey (Sep 21, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Kaeru Workhorse. Website says 240 grams. Had one at 311 grams.



I originally clicked the wrong knife when I saw the original post and went to the JNS website. That was a primary reason I posted the specs to ensure I was viewing the same knife referenced in that post.

240 grams would be heavier than I want but, 311 grams sounds like a Yo-Deba weight range to me.


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## deskjockey (Sep 21, 2021)

Delat said:


> Tomoo Matsumura at Tojiro Atelier is another smith who trained with Kazuomi Yamamoto of Yoshikane. He’s making knives under the Hatsukokoro sub-brand of Tojiro Atelier (small-scale “craftsman” style single-smith-crafted section of Tojiro). Hatsukokoro is also apparently making knives for Yoshikane to Yoshi specs sold at JNS (not sure if that was already mentioned in this thread).
> 
> But for knives sold under the Hatsukokoro brand I’d say they’re a bit thicker and tougher than my Yoshi SKD, with a convex instead of concave grind, and somewhat similar profile with a long flat spot. I really like the AS gyuto I have from them.



I have looked briefly at the Hatsukokoro brand. That is one I would really like to learn more about but, with limited availability and similarity to other knifemakers will likely remain a curiosity on the fringes.


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## deskjockey (Sep 21, 2021)

Jason183 said:


> If I’m choosing between 2 Yoshikanes, I would be looking at the spec sheet for the personal preference. Sometimes it can vary between different batches.
> 
> My first Yoshikane was Hatsukokoro brand, 4mm+ on the heel spine with 240mm edge length, it wedges on carrots. My 2nd Yoshikane (Kono YS) 3.2 mm at the heel spine with 245 mm edge length, does have thinner cutting feel and goes through carrots more smooth.
> 
> liked others have said, spec sheet won’t be helpful if those two knives have different kind of grinds.



Yes, the grind matters most. What spec sheets lack that would be helpful is a cross-section view.

This is probably the single biggest thing that causes me to pause when thinking about a Heiji. The posts where I see people polishing away at the bevel to 'break' the transition suggests to me the grind isn't really what I want.

This is contrasted by the love I see in general for the Heiji knives. Kaeru being compared to a German chef's knife also tells me it is not a good choice for what I want.


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## Cliff (Sep 21, 2021)

esoo said:


> The Nihei/Yoshikane grind is completely different than the Kaeru grind (at least the SLD one I had).



Yes, agreed. I have both Yoshis and a Kaeru.



esoo said:


> The Kaeru I had I would've called the j-knife version of my dad's Henkel's 4-star.



This is not a fair or helpful comparison. The point is that Yoshi, and I gather Nihei, are very high performance knives that are, by necessity, very thin behind the edge. They are both taken to a fairly high HRC. That means they are at least a bit fragile. You have to be mindful of ingredients.

I think it makes more sense to compare Kaeru to something like a Mac Pro or a Misono -- good, solid professional knives. Any of these will outperform Henkels. I don't think any of them is quite as tough. I've lost track in the discussion, is this for pro or home use? For a pro, who's going to beat on the knife all day, I do not think you will do better for the money than the Kaeru. It's less than a Mac Pro. They put the money where it belongs, into excellent steel, and mine looks to have been finished on stones. If you want a fancy handle or Morihiro finishing, this is not the knife for you. A handle alone will cost around $100. This is a $170 knife. I haven't given up my Misono Dragon, but my Kaeru was a much better performer out of the box. It has a KS profile with extra heel height. It feels bigger than 240 and is a great all around knife. If you're looking for top, top performance, you can do better. But the knife won't be as tough, and it will cost more.


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## tostadas (Sep 21, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> Yes, the grind matters most. What spec sheets lack that would be helpful is a cross-section view.
> 
> This is probably the single biggest thing that causes me to pause when thinking about a Heiji. The posts where I see people polishing away at the bevel to 'break' the transition suggests to me the grind isn't really what I want.
> 
> This is contrasted by the love I see in general for the Heiji knives. Kaeru being compared to a German chef's knife also tells me it is not a good choice for what I want.



The standard Kaeru that I had was most similar to my Wakui (migaki version, not the thicker nashiji version). In terms of cutting performance, balance, and grind. Behind the edge measurements were about 0.25/0.8/1.2/1.7mm (@1mm/5mm/10mm/20mm measured at midpoint). The kaeru had more spine taper near the handle, resulting in a thicker tang area, while the Wakui had more edge taper near the tip. Also the Kaeru is pretty right-hand biased.

So while clearly not identical, I would definitely say that the Kaeru feels and performs much more like a thinner midweight gyuto rather than a thick german chunk of steel.


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## esoo (Sep 21, 2021)

Cliff said:


> Yes, agreed. I have both Yoshis and a Kaeru.
> 
> This is not a fair or helpful comparison. The point is that Yoshi, and I gather Nihei, are very high performance knives that are, by necessity, very thin behind the edge. They are both taken to a fairly high HRC. That means they are at least a bit fragile. You have to be mindful of ingredients.



I had a 210 Kaeru SLD from a number of years ago - it was thick, very workhorse-ish from what I recall. Distal Taper was good, but don't remember much convexity (if any at all). My comparison was based on my recollection - I sold the knife nearly two years ago as it was never in use.


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## MowgFace (Sep 21, 2021)

3 Heijis. All with stock grind

Heiji Carbon 240






Gesshin Heiji SS 240






Gesshin Heiji SS 210






Here you can see the “shoulders” many have mentioned.


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## Cliff (Sep 21, 2021)

esoo said:


> I had a 210 Kaeru SLD from a number of years ago - it was thick, very workhorse-ish from what I recall. Distal Taper was good, but don't remember much convexity (if any at all). My comparison was based on my recollection - I sold the knife nearly two years ago as it was never in use.


 
I got mine a couple of months ago. I gather there have been some pretty big changes.


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## deskjockey (Sep 21, 2021)

Cliff said:


> Yes, agreed. I have both Yoshis and a Kaeru.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



FWIW, I am a *home user* looking to put more vegetables into my diet. I don't beat on my kitchen knives for hours on end so, some of the "pro" concerns don't really apply to me. However, I'm sure my techniques with a knife aren't the best so, a super fragile edge is probably a poor choice too.

I'm looking to shoot in the middle range of a laser and a workhorse profile as I don't like heavy knives but I want a bit more heft than my laser. Veggie sticktion on my laser is an irritation as well so, I have considered the hammered finishes and convex profiles as better options. Wedging is a hard no for me as well as I don't like split cold carrots or the pressure it takes on sweet potatoes with something like a Henckels or Wusthoff chef knife.


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## Cliff (Sep 21, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> FWIW, I am a *home user* looking to put more vegetables into my diet. I don't beat on my kitchen knives for hours on end so, some of the "pro" concerns don't really apply to me. However, I'm sure my techniques with a knife aren't the best so, a super fragile edge is probably a poor choice too.
> 
> I'm looking to shoot in the middle range of a laser and a workhorse profile as I don't like heavy knives but I want a bit more heft than my laser. Veggie sticktion on my laser is an irritation as well so, I have considered the hammered finishes and convex profiles as better options. Wedging is a hard no for me as well as I don't like split cold carrots or the pressure it takes on sweet potatoes with something like a Henckels or Wusthoff chef knife.



You'll get lots of different answers for this. For me, I would go with something from Echiezen (Shiro Kamo, Kurosaki, or Kato) or one of the recent, lighter, stainless clad Wat/Toyamas. My Yoshis are definitely on the fragile side of the spectrum. I love them as fragile high performers. I think the Kaeru is great, and a very, very solid performer, performing way above its price point. It has an amazing profile and good but more forgiving steel (than Yoshi). But my 240 feels a little big because of the heel height, and if you're not cooking for more than two or three other people much, it might be overkill. In the laser category, I think Ashi feels more solid than the others I have tried.


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## tostadas (Sep 21, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> FWIW, I am a *home user* looking to put more vegetables into my diet. I don't beat on my kitchen knives for hours on end so, some of the "pro" concerns don't really apply to me. However, I'm sure my techniques with a knife aren't the best so, a super fragile edge is probably a poor choice too.
> 
> I'm looking to shoot in the middle range of a laser and a workhorse profile as I don't like heavy knives but I want a bit more heft than my laser. Veggie sticktion on my laser is an irritation as well so, I have considered the hammered finishes and convex profiles as better options. Wedging is a hard no for me as well as I don't like split cold carrots or the pressure it takes on sweet potatoes with something like a Henckels or Wusthoff chef knife.


I agree with @Cliff that perhaps the SS clad watanabe/toyama may hit that sweet spot for you. Yoshikane, though the weight puts it in what I'd consider midweight category, the edge is so thin that it feels almost fragile to me.

I havent found hammered to have any significant effect on food release. The first 10-20mm behind the edge is more important.


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## esoo (Sep 21, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> FWIW, I am a *home user* looking to put more vegetables into my diet. I don't beat on my kitchen knives for hours on end so, some of the "pro" concerns don't really apply to me. However, I'm sure my techniques with a knife aren't the best so, a super fragile edge is probably a poor choice too.
> 
> I'm looking to shoot in the middle range of a laser and a workhorse profile as I don't like heavy knives but I want a bit more heft than my laser. Veggie sticktion on my laser is an irritation as well so, I have considered the hammered finishes and convex profiles as better options. Wedging is a hard no for me as well as I don't like split cold carrots or the pressure it takes on sweet potatoes with something like a Henckels or Wusthoff chef knife.



The simple reality here is that you are dealing with the compromise of knife design.

Want to glide through large carrots and sweet potato? You need a thin blade for less forces laterally as the knife progresses into the product.

Less stiction requires enough thickness up in the grind to make a convex/concave/wide-bevel/s-grind.

So you need thickness and thinness for your goal. You need to consider what you are willing to trade-off for in a single knife or use more than one. A good convex blade should get you to 90% of the way there. You'll get decent enough movement through hard stuff, but enough convex that food should wipe away without sticking too bad.


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## esoo (Sep 21, 2021)

And to add, knives that I've touched that might meet the criteria:
Kono YS-M
Kono Sumiiro
Kono MM
Kono Tetsujin
Kono FM Nakiri
Yoshikane Amerkiri
Toyama Nakiri
Dalman/Birgerson Warikomi collab

All of these had good grinds that liked going into product and had decent food release (stuff might stick, but it would slide off easily). Some, like the YS-M/Sumiiro/Yoshi, have very thin (near) nail-flexing edges that require so extra care on really hard stuff. The rest, I'd cut pretty much any product.


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## Cliff (Sep 21, 2021)

I'll second the Kono MM. I think it's a great, great all around knife, though they're not made anymore, and they were pricey. My B2 had a lower grind and more solid feel than the Fujiyamas I've handled, while still being a very high performance knife.


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## esoo (Sep 21, 2021)

Yeah, I love the MM


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## Cliff (Sep 21, 2021)

Like my Yoshis, my version of the B2 had a slightly lower heel height, which makes the knife feel much more maneuverable.


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## tally-ho (Sep 21, 2021)

esoo said:


> I had a 210 Kaeru SLD from a number of years ago - it was thick, very workhorse-ish from what I recall. Distal Taper was good, but don't remember much convexity (if any at all). My comparison was based on my recollection - I sold the knife nearly two years ago as it was never in use.


I bought a Kaeru kasumi 240 SLD in may and the bevel is definitely convex with a cladding line that is pretty low. Still with a good distal taper. The profil is a long soft curve without flat spot. The grind feels "comparable" to a Mazaki migaki 240 W#2 but the Kaeru blade is a bit thinner overall. The edge doesn't feel fragile at all.


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## deskjockey (Sep 21, 2021)

tally-ho said:


> I bought a Kaeru kasumi 240 SLD in may and the bevel is definitely convex with a cladding line that is pretty low. Still with a good distal taper. The profil is a long soft curve without flat spot. The grind feels "comparable" to a Mazaki migaki 240 W#2 but the Kaeru blade is a bit thinner overall. The edge doesn't feel fragile at all.



That makes the Kaeru sound pretty good to me. I guess I need to reconsider it before I spend my money and commit to a different blade. If I lived in the EU, JNS would be an easy choice to purchase from but, across the ocean and US Customs cause me some concern with how things are today.


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## M1k3 (Sep 21, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> That makes the Kaeru sound pretty good to me. I guess I need to reconsider it before I spend my money and commit to a different blade. If I lived in the EU, JNS would be an easy choice to purchase from but, across the ocean and US Customs cause me some concern with how things are today.


The worst thing about U.S. customs, it's a blackhole for USPS updates.


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## deskjockey (Sep 21, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> The worst thing about U.S. customs, it's a blackhole for USPS updates.



First-class and registered letters mailed from Texas to Oklahoma are taking over a week to arrive. 50% of the registered ones have no tracking updates. 

The registered letter I sent to confirm a land sale is two weeks out right now. The second one I sent is at the one week point right now. Neither has been delivered. At this point, I may have to drive to Oklahoma and deliver it in person.


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## Jovidah (Sep 22, 2021)

daveb said:


> IMO the Yoshi variants from K&S, CKC, CC, are light midweights that are exceptionally thin behind the edge. The food release is sweet and no one will confuse them with a laser.


Not sure I agree on the last part. My K&S Yoshi SKD I actually would describe as more laserish, with underwhelming food release to match. I think it's largely due to the shiny beat-blasted finish beyond the edge. While it has more weight due to the thicker spine above the choil I'd describe mine more as 'laser with a thicker spine' than as something going in a workhorse direction.

As tcmx3 mentioned it would help if you have a clear idea of what you want in a knife. If lower blade height, flatter profile and thinner laserish grind is up your alley it can be a great knife for you. But it really comes down to your personal preferences. If you prefer something tall and chunky that doesn't feel delicate it won't work at all for you.


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## Jovidah (Sep 22, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> I'm not trying to argue or insult anyone. What I would like to know is if the specs I'm reviewing are not accurate because I could be mistakingly looking at a different knife or, the specs themselves could be wrong. Without actually handling them in person, subjective opinions and explicit specifications are all I have to go on. And, JNS specifications are a bit thin so, it is possible someone who owns one could add some details from their own measurements.
> 
> And to be clear, I do appreciate everyone's opinion even if it is different than my own
> 
> The Nihei is in stock in the USA, a similar Yoshikane is OOS for the same price. The Kaeru has similar specs I think with a plainer finish and is in the EU for less money which is tempting if I don't get sucked into the cosmetics or hold out for the Yoshikane. I have been told the Yoshikane restocks will come in at a higher price which is giving the nod to the Nihei though, with the Kaeru at the same weight I'm unsure how much difference in actual use there is.


The problem is that those specs don't tell the whole story because they don't necessarily give a full picture of where the metal is, where the weight is, and how thick it is in which spot.
Just to give a poorly drawn example:

|||||||||=========---------
||===============---

Imagine that as being a very crude comparison of two spines. They can have the exact 'above choil, center spine, 1 cm from tip' measurements, and even the same weight, but they can handle very differently. Just like taking a tiny bit off behind the edge can both make a knife cut better and make it significantly more delicate, without significantly impacting weight. 
Handles muddy the water even more, since they can have different lenghts, densities and weights.

Even if you have a knife in hand and can actually see the spine I still found that it can be very deceptive about it's performance; don't just a book by it's cover.


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## Jovidah (Sep 22, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> Thank you Esso! Without owning a Kaeru or Heiji, it really hard to know what one is buying without actually holding it in person. Your posts strongly suggest the Kaeru is one purchase I should avoid.


Not the most comforting thing to say, but it's really hard to substitute for actually using a bunch of different knives to get some datapoints to relate to. Once you've used a decent spread of different knives with different profiles, weights and geometries it becomes easier because you can relate stuff, but I found that before I did that I was very much in the dark. It's a costly experience though, but it's really eye opening and IMO very hard to develop your preferences without it.

Part of the problem is that to some extent the knives we talk about are all great knives... just different. The trick is to find which one fits your particular personal preferences, but no one can tell you what those are.


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## daveb (Sep 22, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> Not the most comforting thing to say, but it's really hard to substitute for actually using a bunch of different knives to get some datapoints to relate to. Once you've used a decent spread of different knives with different profiles, weights and geometries it becomes easier because you can relate stuff, but I found that before I did that I was very much in the dark. It's a costly experience though, but it's really eye opening and IMO very hard to develop your preferences without it.
> 
> Part of the problem is that to some extent the knives we talk about are all great knives... just different. The trick is to find which one fits your particular personal preferences, but no one can tell you what those are.



Not sure you need to try a wide assortment but above is zactly the reason so many advise to buy a $200 or less gyuto to start with, use it a bit and see what you like / don't like. Of course the more you try the more refined your preferences become.

Only then start looking at $300+ knives with characteristics you like.


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## captaincaed (Sep 22, 2021)

What Dave said. Best thing to do is start. BST is great for the non keepers. You're from Texas, gotta get your hands dirty.


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## Jovidah (Sep 22, 2021)

daveb said:


> Not sure you need to try a wide assortment but above is zactly the reason so many advise to buy a $200 or less gyuto to start with, use it a bit and see what you like / don't like. Of course the more you try the more refined your preferences become.
> 
> Only then start looking at $300+ knives with characteristics you like.


Yeah wide assortment might be a bit of an overstatement; you can get very far with trying just a handful of knives as long as they're different enough. But I agree with what you say; you don't need to spend a fortune to start building a frame of reference. It's just very hard to do so without anything to go off.


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## Cliff (Sep 22, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> That makes the Kaeru sound pretty good to me. I guess I need to reconsider it before I spend my money and commit to a different blade. If I lived in the EU, JNS would be an easy choice to purchase from but, across the ocean and US Customs cause me some concern with how things are today.



I'm in the States and have bought too much from JNS. Never had any trouble. The knife itself doesn't qualify for free shipping, but if you add a nagura or tomo nagura, you're there. You might well pick a different knife, but I wouldn't let shipping be the deciding factor. My orders always arrive fast.


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## tostadas (Sep 22, 2021)

Jns orders have always arrived stupid fast for me in US


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## deskjockey (Sep 23, 2021)

I am getting seriously tempted by picking up a Kaeru from JNS with the comments so far as a substitute for the Tsunehisa Ginsan I was considering for a beater at my smoker. I was thinking Ginsan would be more forgiving for outdoor "kitchen" use around generally boneless meats and some produce but, the fats from meat should address any corrosion concerns and the edge profile can be tweaked for a little rougher service if needed. 

This would also give me a good opportunity to "test drive" it in my house for a while to refine my Gyuto "tastes". As noted, if I don't like it, BST should get me most of the cost back to move on to another choice.


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## Cliff (Sep 23, 2021)

deskjockey said:


> I am getting seriously tempted by picking up a Kaeru from JNS with the comments so far as a substitute for the Tsunehisa Ginsan I was considering for a beater at my smoker. I was thinking Ginsan would be more forgiving for outdoor "kitchen" use around generally boneless meats and some produce but, the fats from meat should address any corrosion concerns and the edge profile can be tweaked for a little rougher service if needed.
> 
> This would also give me a good opportunity to "test drive" it in my house for a while to refine my Gyuto "tastes". As noted, if I don't like it, BST should get me most of the cost back to move on to another choice.



If you have carbon knives, his synthetic stones are also quite good, to fill out an order for shipping. It's not just the naturals. The 800 requires a bit of a soak, which is a drag for me, but it cuts very fast and is great for a range of steels. I've heard it really sings when perma-soaked. The red Aoto is great as is the 6K.


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## sansho (Oct 16, 2021)

hopefully not too off topic, but does anyone know the difference between konosuke YS and sanjo?



YS – Konosuke


vs








Konosuke Sanjo


Welcome to Tosho Knife Arts, connecting Toronto with Japanese blades since 2010. We specialize in Japanese kitchen knives, whetstones, sharpening services, and more. Tosho Knife Arts is your source of Japanese steel. Come by in-store or online. We offer worldwide shipping.




www.toshoknifearts.com





Sanjo = Sanjo YS?

guessing these are both probably made by yoshikane?

hard to understand at first when i see YS, YS-M, Sanjo, Sanjo YS.
guessing these are all similar offerings made by YS though.


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## tostadas (Oct 16, 2021)

sansho said:


> hopefully not too off topic, but does anyone know the difference between konosuke YS and sanjo?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that should be accurate. I've seen the YS (assuming Yoshikane Semi-stainless), YW (assuming Yoshikane White#2). The Sanjo looks to be at least very similar, if not exactly the same line.


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## esoo (Oct 16, 2021)

AFAIK -. YS and YS-M are the same except for the -M is supposed to have a darker finish. It is made with a unspecified tool steel. Seems to be made by Yoshikane. HRC is supposed to be 65 

I believe the Sanjo is also made with SKD steel and again made by Yoshikane.


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## superworrier (Oct 16, 2021)

I think the SKD steel in Kono SKD may be SKD11/SLD - the YS is “secret steel” (something like SKD12). The CKTG says Kono SKD is SKD11 but it wouldn’t have been the first time a product page has been wrong. This one says SKD12 though so it may just be the YS with a different finish.


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## tostadas (Oct 16, 2021)

superworrier said:


> I think the SKD steel in Kono SKD may be SKD11/SLD - the YS is “secret steel” (something like SKD12). The CKTG says Kono SKD is SKD11 but it wouldn’t have been the first time a product page has been wrong. This one says SKD12 though so it may just be the YS with a different finish.


My suspicion is that the Kono version is not SLD. SLD I've used had almost no reactivity, but my Kono YS did have some of the carbon smell when cutting highly acidic foods.


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## superworrier (Oct 16, 2021)

tostadas said:


> My suspicion is that the Kono version is not SLD. SLD I've used had almost no reactivity, but my Kono YS did have some of the carbon smell when cutting highly acidic foods.


The YS is not SLD for sure. I’m talking about the Tsuchime ones.


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