# What about a Suien VC cleaver?



## Benuser (Jul 16, 2017)

Looking for my first cleaver, for fun, mostly. 
Considering this one:
https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...cts/suien-virgin-carbon-steel-chinese-cleaver
Any thoughts?


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## daveb (Jul 16, 2017)

Like mine. Little bit of belly.. 

Not a "cleaver guy" but get it out to play.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jul 16, 2017)

Buy it. The Suien hits a great price to performance ratio, easy to sharpen and is a very good overall profile that is more forgiving (little bit rounded) so you don't slam the tip or heel into the board all the time. 

Also, although some may be a fan of easing your way into Chinese cleaver with something smaller, I'm a fan of just jumping in and trying it. 

Like swimming, sometimes it's colder if you ease yourself into the pool than just jumping in and going for it.


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## chinacats (Jul 16, 2017)

I'll go a different direction and say that it appears to have too much belly...why I've never tried one. I've got an 11xx and like it. If it got more use I'd likely opt for a suji6 or an ashi if it was available (wa handle version from jki) for the improved steel.


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## NO ChoP! (Jul 16, 2017)

A lot of gyuto guys find the belly attractive at first, but it's really counteractive to how to properly use a Chinese vegetable cleaver. No where do you use any rocking action. It's straight, up and down chop (which, as my name states, I hate, lol), or draw cuts. It's really a different style of cooking, all together.


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## Benuser (Jul 18, 2017)

Thanks a lot, guys. Very helpful indeed.


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## sharptools (Jul 18, 2017)

chinacats said:


> I'll go a different direction and say that it appears to have too much belly...why I've never tried one. I've got an 11xx and like it. If it got more use I'd likely opt for a suji6 or an ashi if it was available (wa handle version from jki) for the improved steel.



I second this. I love my chinese cleavers and dislike the belly.


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## XooMG (Jul 18, 2017)

I see folks using knives with belly all the time here in the renegade province. The suien is on the upper end of what I think is a normal amount of belly for many Chinese styles (it seems silly to claim only one traditional technique and that it does not vary and evolve).


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## labor of love (Jul 18, 2017)

Benuser said:


> Looking for my first cleaver, for fun, mostly.
> Considering this one:
> https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...cts/suien-virgin-carbon-steel-chinese-cleaver
> Any thoughts?



Daveb has a nice looking suien vc, great profile. I've personally used a couple with pretty exaggerated curvature. You could also take advantage of korins 15% off sale and score a sugimoto.


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## labor of love (Jul 18, 2017)

It's cool that suien vc only weighs 450 grams now (I'm guessing because of the mahogany handle) I've used one that was 520grams +, not fun.


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## Benuser (Jul 18, 2017)

XooMG said:


> I see folks using knives with belly all the time here in the renegade province. The suien is on the upper end of what I think is a normal amount of belly for many Chinese styles (it seems silly to claim only one traditional technique and that it does not vary and evolve).


I'm not too concerned by the belly, and even less by one only allowed technique: I come from French chef's, use to guillotine and glide, but had frequently to change grip and technique due to some injuries and arthrosis.


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (Jul 18, 2017)

Its not the belly that bothers me but it comes up again slightly at the heel. Its not belly into flat spot. You will learn to add a rock at the end on longer items. Fwiw i cut with front or back mostly so no problems. I own two, one flattened out. I use the normal one more.

Worth doing a few minutes of thinning


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 19, 2017)

GET IT !


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 19, 2017)

read post by ANDY777: 
A discourse on why I love Chinese cleavers.
...after I was done reading I bought a SUIEN VC cleaver. 
very happy with it . out of the box, the belly is pronounced. but after use and sharpening, the profile 
gets flater. the more you use it the better it gets .


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## sharptools (Jul 19, 2017)

How does the Sugimoto compare. Does anyone have both? The sugimoto looks a lot flatter in pictures.


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## Benuser (Jul 19, 2017)

IndoorOutdoorCook said:


> Its not the belly that bothers me but it comes up again slightly at the heel. Its not belly into flat spot. You will learn to add a rock at the end on longer items. Fwiw i cut with front or back mostly so no problems. I own two, one flattened out. I use the normal one more.
> 
> Worth doing a few minutes of thinning



For sure I will thin it a bit to get rid of that fake lamination line.


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## Benuser (Jul 19, 2017)

sharptools said:


> How does the Sugimoto compare. Does anyone have both? The sugimoto looks a lot flatter in pictures.


Other price range, far beyond my budget. JCK offers the Suien at $160, and I'm not that concerned by the profile questions. But thanks for the head up.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 19, 2017)

There is no lamination or protective lacquer or varnish on SUIEN.
blade appears to be sand / bead blasted on bottom portion.
After I got mine I took the green metal polish from Harbor Freight and use with cloth polishing wheel. blade is now uniformly smooth.
I also used a small diamond file end went over the three sides of Blade that are not sharpened.just to take off the sharp edges
finished off with a forced mustard patina lightly blotted on with paper towel let sit for half hour.
needs a little work right out of box, but cleans up nicely. cleaver will be passed down to my son AFTER my death.
(because I need to be using this knife for the rest of my life)

If you get a blade that has a lacquer or varnish on it it can easily be removed with acetone.
I buy 100% acetone nail polish remover for $2 at Walmart


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 22, 2017)

oh by the way, my SUIEN has MAHOGANY handle. 
I'm very surprised at how well it has held up too heavy abuse.
I bought a couple of Dexter brand spatulas, with ROSEWOOD handle ,at the same time I got my knife.
The Rosewood handles aren't holding up as well. To my knowledge the SUIEN is not available with Rosewood handle any longer. At first I was worried about durability issues and I thought at some point I would redo the handle with Rosewood. I bet my mahogany handle will hold up for another 10 or 20 years. when it finally fails I will replace with mahogany again. also mahogany is a little lighter weight, preventing the handle from being too heavy and off balance.

BUY IT....for $160 it's worth every dollar. :biggrin:


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## Benuser (Jul 22, 2017)

Don't worry, WOK-a-holic, you're quite convincing...
Thanks a lot, guys, for your replies. 
Much appreciated.


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (Jul 22, 2017)

sharptools said:


> How does the Sugimoto compare. Does anyone have both? The sugimoto looks a lot flatter in pictures.



I have sugimoto 6. Compared to suien vc, flatter profile, thicker, and has distal taper

@benuser fyi the 'fake lamination line' is from the quenching process. I lost mine thinning and now is covered in patina anyway. Suien vc is monosteel virgin carbon.


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## sharptools (Jul 22, 2017)

It sounds like the #6 is closer to a CCK 1203 or even a 1503.

I've seen a sugimoto #1 floating around somewhere. That's probably a more realistic comparison to the CCK1303 and the SUIEN


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## XooMG (Jul 23, 2017)

IndoorOutdoorCook said:


> I have sugimoto 6. Compared to suien vc, flatter profile, thicker, and has distal taper
> 
> @benuser fyi the 'fake lamination line' is from the quenching process. I lost mine thinning and now is covered in patina anyway. Suien vc is monosteel virgin carbon.


It is not from quench. The edge and upper flat are masked when frosting the lower flat. The line should be roughly the same from knife to knife. I am no expert though, so I may be wrong.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 24, 2017)

Benuser said:


> Don't worry, WOK-a-holic, you're quite convincing...
> Thanks a lot, guys, for your replies.
> Much appreciated.



my ONLY complaint is the edge profile has to much belly.
you said your not that concerned about the profile.
profile gets flatter with time/use /sharpening .
The frosted finsh on bottom will disappear quickly, after thinning the blade and a little polishing. 
then alow patina to build up .
The quality and strength of the metal is mind blowing! 
even to this day, I am shocked how sharp I can get the blade. stays sharp really long time.

size, shape, dimensions, and weight are ideal. (220mm×107mm× 450grams)
After reprofiling edge (flatter ) and a good patina . I HAVE NO COMPLAINTS. 
no need to spend $300-$600 :moon:


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## trilby (Jul 26, 2017)

Which are more desirable? German or Japanese cleavers?


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## chinacats (Jul 26, 2017)

trilby said:


> Which are more desirable? German or Japanese cleavers?



Chinese


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 26, 2017)

trilby said:


> Which are more desirable? German or Japanese cleavers?



Japanese or Chinese 

The old carbon steel German Cleavers are okay for splitting bones but the Chinese make heavy ones that are better. 

Chinese vegetable cleaver is called :CAI DAO
Japanese made Chinese style Cleavers are called: CHUKA BOCHO

CAI DAO is the original, CHUKA BOCHO is Japan's version ,the edge profile usually has more belly .
if you want to cut vegetables you will need one of these.

* skip the German cleaver:flush:


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## Noodle Soup (Jul 26, 2017)

Japanese cleaver probably have better steel but if you are actually cooking Chinese, Chinese cleavers are on their home turf.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 28, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> Japanese cleaver probably have better steel but if you are actually cooking Chinese, Chinese cleavers are on their home turf.



I just got a CCK 1103 (Hong Kong) a few days ago .
love the flatter edge profile. The blade is crazy thin , steel quality seems pretty good ....but I think my Japanese made SUIEN VC cleaver wins on steel quality, and loses on edge profile.


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## Duckfat (Aug 4, 2017)

I'd take any cleaver mentioned here Vs not having one! I can't imagine my arsenal devoid of a cleaver. If cost is a factor I'd definitely consider CCK or even Dexter. I recently saw some Carbon cleavers in original packing on eBay from the 50's for around $125. Kind of interesting as well. I'm not a big fan of the belly but the Suien is a nice piece and I can't imagine you wouldn't be happy with it. For cleaver lust I used to google the Hattori. 

Dave


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## Benuser (May 23, 2019)

Found it remarkably useful for use as an alternative to the French chef's or gyuto, as it isn't deadly flat but has a slight curve, allowing the 'guillotine and glide' I'm used to. The extra weight is only helpful and it took me very little time to get used to it. The handle allows it just to rest on three fingers, freeing my arthritic thumb. Most comfortable after easing the choil. 
Have thinned a bit, so that fake lamination line disappeared. Good occasion to see how regular the grinding is. As expected, very easy sharpening.


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