# Fake Kasumi???



## adam92 (Mar 22, 2020)

Hi guys, i need someone help me identify this kasumi photo, Looks like fake kasumi for me ?

I see someone post on Facebook for auction, just wondering does it look like fake one?


----------



## RDalman (Mar 22, 2020)

Define "real" kasumi?


----------



## RDalman (Mar 22, 2020)

Because it does look misty to me on the photos.. 
For how it was achieved, there can really only be speculations. I would guess blasted, as is the most common way I believe.


----------



## adam92 (Mar 22, 2020)

When i discuss with taiwan knives community group someone said there's a technique which is like a spray can make kasumi look, but not by sharpening, i just confuse about it.


----------



## RDalman (Mar 22, 2020)

adam92 said:


> When i discuss with taiwan knives community group someone said there's a technique which is like a spray can make kasumi look, but not by sharpening, i just confuse about it.


Yes that's sandblasting (youtube it maybe) other common techniques are with etching and buffing. Can also be done with fingerstones. It's extremely rare I think, you get kasumi finish made on flat stones (not even shigefusa for example), maybe some cases where you pay extra for it by western makers.


----------



## adam92 (Mar 22, 2020)

RDalman said:


> Yes that's sandblasting (youtube it maybe) other common techniques are with etching and buffing. Can also be done with fingerstones. It's extremely rare I think, you get kasumi finish made on flat stones (not even shigefusa for example), maybe some cases where you pay extra for it by western makers.


Yes i think is call sandblasting, a Taiwan experience knives collector which has super many honyaki & shigefusa guys told be beware of auction knife in taiwan group, he was telling me the kasumi can be sandblasting for cosmetic to try to increase value of the knife..

I just thinking this knife look similar but not confirm as the same seller doing auction again. Only want to gain my knowledge for identify fake kasumi which is not done by stone.


----------



## nutmeg (Mar 22, 2020)

how much is the knife?


----------



## McMan (Mar 22, 2020)

adam92 said:


> Yes i think is call sandblasting, a Taiwan experience knives collector which has super many honyaki & shigefusa guys told be beware of auction knife in taiwan group, he was telling me the kasumi can be sandblasting for cosmetic to try to increase value of the knife..
> 
> I just thinking this knife look similar but not confirm as the same seller doing auction again. Only want to gain my knowledge for identify fake kasumi which is not done by stone.


I don't know if it's "fake" per se. But it's just not done with stones. As @RDalman noted, "Define "real" Kasumi"...
It's easy to spot sandblast kasumi--it's milky looking and homogenous. Watanabe/Toyama and many other makers use it. It's a time-saver and covers (~hides) all low-spots evenly. A full stone polish would require dealing with those low spots in one way or another--the amount of time to do a "proper" kasumi would likely increase price.


----------



## adam92 (Mar 22, 2020)

nutmeg said:


> how much is the knife?


Currently about 4000 taiwan dollar.


----------



## nutmeg (Mar 22, 2020)

adam92 said:


> Currently about 4000 taiwan dollar.


never saw a single stone


----------



## adam92 (Mar 22, 2020)

McMan said:


> I don't know if it's "fake" per se. But it's just not done with stones. As @RDalman noted, "Define "real" Kasumi"...
> It's easy to spot sandblast kasumi--it's milky looking and homogenous. Watanabe/Toyama and many other makers use it. It's a time-saver and covers (~hides) all low-spots evenly. A full stone polish would require dealing with those low spots in one way or another--the amount of time to do a "proper" kasumi would likely increase price.


Hiding low spots is not good, once we sharpen we had to get rid of the low spots....


----------



## nutmeg (Mar 22, 2020)

though I am not saying this is a bad knife but for the price there are luxury things you can‘t expect.


----------



## nutmeg (Mar 22, 2020)

adam92 said:


> Hiding low spots is not good, once we sharpen we had to get rid of the low spots....


The only knife I got without low spots was more than $4000 and even there the finish was ok but not perfect.
It may be found for cheaper but I‘ve never had in my own hands.


----------



## adam92 (Mar 22, 2020)

nutmeg said:


> The only knife I got without low spots was more than usd4k and even there the finish was ok but not perfect.


WOW!


----------



## nutmeg (Mar 22, 2020)

edit


----------



## nutmeg (Mar 22, 2020)

and a 40 years old Shg kitaeji takobiki.
But the newer ones are totally different.

..and a Clever from Dalman (how could I forget?!). He finished it on Jnats.

Otherwise finish on stones is pretty hard to find. And would make the prices sky rocketing!
I see knives BNIB finished on stones more like a luxury.

And ..if the knife you showed above was finished on stones, would it perform better on a long term than a knife made a by well-known maker that hasn't been finished on stones?


----------



## adam92 (Mar 23, 2020)

nutmeg said:


> and a 40 years old Shg kitaeji takobiki.
> But the newer ones are totally different.
> 
> ..and a Clever from Dalman (how could I forget?!). He finished it on Jnats.
> ...


I don't know the different, does it make any performance/ cutting different between sand blasting or finish on stone ?


----------



## DanielC (Mar 23, 2020)

I hear wobble and low spots are fairly common on most unless you spend a great deal of money.

I can attest that it takes a great deal of time and hyper focus on even a single knife to get right.

Getting the kasumi to the spine for instance...was a monumental chore for me for example. Just that part took a lot of work and precision...


----------



## Matt Zilliox (Mar 23, 2020)

DanielC said:


> I hear wobble and low spots are fairly common on most unless you spend a great deal of money.
> 
> I can attest that it takes a great deal of time and hyper focus on even a single knife to get right.
> 
> ...


sexy work


----------



## ma_sha1 (Mar 23, 2020)

adam92 said:


> I don't know the different, does it make any performance/ cutting different between sand blasting or finish on stone ?



Might depend on grind, my Kurosaki has beautiful sand blasted Kasumi, finger feel is tougher than Stone Kasumi, but no noticeable drags during cutting. The slight concave grind might be helping. IMHO, grind is more important than surface finish, & rougher surfaces tend to get smoother with use.


----------



## DanielC (Mar 23, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> Might depend on grind, my Kurosaki has beautiful sand blasted Kasumi, finger feel is tougher than Stone Kasumi, but no noticeable drags during cutting. The slight concave grind might be helping. IMHO, grind is more important than surface finish, & rougher surfaces tend to get smoother with use.



Is that what it looked like on arrival? If so, that looks etched as opposed to blasted.


----------



## M1k3 (Mar 23, 2020)

I think it's the lighting. Like nutmeg's "is it mirror or is it dark" trick.


----------



## ma_sha1 (Mar 23, 2020)

DanielC said:


> Is that what it looked like on arrival? If so, that looks etched as opposed to blasted.



Yes, it’s original look, could be either way but I asked this question on KKF before & majority thought it was blasted but I don’t know for sure.


----------



## DanielC (Mar 23, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> Yes, it’s original look, could be either way but I asked this question on KKF before & majority thought it was blasted but I don’t know for sure.



Yea, it looks like an etch to me, as a maker. Which is fine. Both are ways one could totally hide a low spot or non-flat surface until you took it to a rock that is.

Beautiful blade.

EDIT: I say An etch if the core steel is literally dark in all angles. The core being dark and the way the nickle shim is showing along with the color overall looks etch. Which I love btw.


----------



## RDalman (Mar 23, 2020)

"Both are ways one could totally hide a low spot or non-flat surface until you took it to a rock that is."

There are makers out there intentionally selling knives with low spots (like 99% of what's coming out of japan, and lots lots from the rest of the world too). I don't think they should be viewed like they're "hiding" low spots in their blade surfaces/flaws, when they intentionally make like that. Ie- watoyama, tf, shig, kato, me etc...
Edit, Nevermind this was already kindof agreed on.


----------



## DanielC (Mar 23, 2020)

RDalman said:


> "Both are ways one could totally hide a low spot or non-flat surface until you took it to a rock that is."
> 
> There are makers out there intentionally selling knives with low spots (like 99% of what's coming out of japan, and lots lots from the rest of the world too). I don't think they should be viewed like they're "hiding" low spots in their blade surfaces/flaws, when they intentionally make like that. Ie- watoyama, tf, shig, kato, me etc...



99% of the kitchen knives out there are probably not a prestine surface, I agree. I am not familiar with all surface conditions coming out from Japan, but it would seem the degree that you find low spots, wavy surfaces or simply geometry that was from rushing or whatever reason, are a direct result of pricing. The sandblast us used to make it appear as if the surface is smooth when it actually isnt. I've seen some really messed up grinds from friends buying cheap blades on Yahoo.

As for everyone else, I guess its deoendant on the maker and his intentions. I would say if his intention was to make a kitchen knife to be polished for kasumi thst he would do his best to mitigate low areas that form from flawed or lazy grinding.

If it's actually a feature, like an s-grind for example, then all bets are off. Whatever finish is there was intentional by the maker. I would never criticize you whatsoever for having non-flat planes in most other instances.


----------



## MowgFace (Mar 26, 2020)

OP, didn't you just recently get a Kintaro AS? Those are beadblasted as well.


----------



## MartinJ (Mar 26, 2020)

Those are several makers in France that do natural Kasumi finish with stones. So no low spots.
Bryan Raquin, Yannick Puig, more recently Milan Gravier for example


----------



## SeattleBen (Mar 26, 2020)

Twosticks Forge out of the UK also is a hand finished custom knife.


----------



## Forty Ounce (Apr 6, 2020)

nutmeg said:


> The only knife I got without low spots was more than $4000 and even there the finish was ok but not perfect.
> It may be found for cheaper but I‘ve never had in my own hands.


Thank you for posting this.. I hate that people expect absolute perfection for such low amounts of $$$


----------



## Migraine (Apr 6, 2020)

Catcheside forgies are stone finished on the wide bevel also.


----------



## XooMG (Apr 6, 2020)

I'm probably the only person in Taiwan who would sell a stone-finished knife for nt$4k, and that's just because I hate myself.

Addendum: not selling any right now. Sorry.


----------



## Newbflat (Apr 15, 2020)

Look like a Masamoto Mukimono?


----------

