# Is food release overrated?



## mark76 (Apr 28, 2015)

In another topic Matus wrote that the property of food release of a blade may be overrated. Even his Kato knife did not release food well.

I have the same experience. I don't have a Kato, but I do have some thicker knives (at the spine). For example, my Heiji knife is pretty thick at the spine. It also has a marked transition between its wide bevel and the rest of the blade, which one might think would contribute to food release.

However, this blade does not have any noticeable food release than a laser knife (e.g. Ashi Hamono ginga). 

What's your experience?


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## chinacats (Apr 28, 2015)

Must be your technique...


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## DamageInc (Apr 28, 2015)

I've found that food release is very dependent on technique. Though the knife still helps a lot.

Take a look at this video

[video=youtube;kuI7fjJ9c3A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuI7fjJ9c3A[/video]

See how well the potato stays on the board when chopped? And how it sticks when he begins to push cut?

Up and down = release

Back and forth = sticking

At least that's my interpretation.


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## KitchenCommander (Apr 28, 2015)

I do not have a very wide variety of knives to choose from, but I do not see any significant food release differences between my knives. 

Primary users are a 240 Hiromoto AS Gyuto, 210 Artisan SRS15 Gyuto, and 170 Masakage Yuki Bunka. 

I figured the pear finish, thick spine, and wide bevel of the Masakage would really make the food fall off, but I still have sticking on most ingredients. There is some difference, but not all that much. Plus the thick spine makes it difficult to cut an onion in half (wedging).

EDIT: good video. I will experiment with my technique. I could definitely use more practice. This could definitely play a part in food adhesion, although seeing is more compelling than reading about it.


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## Dave Martell (Apr 28, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Must be your technique...




It's true that some knives work better at releasing some foods than others do but technique surely plays into it as well.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 28, 2015)

DamageInc said:


> I've found that food release is very dependent on technique. Though the knife still helps a lot.
> 
> Take a look at this video
> 
> ...



Except that two different parts of the knife are used. The "up/down" is done with the area towards the tip, while the "back and forth" is done with the area closer to the heel.


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## supersayan3 (Apr 28, 2015)

For food release , i think that a traditional Japanese knife, left side flat, right side kisagi or convex is a sure winner.
Out of experience, double convex knives are very good at food release.

Out of experience as well, mirror polish, or granton edge style side, raises the percentage of release.

Saltydog had filmed some videos 'the Grind', 3 or 4 videos. Since his hand moves the same all the time, it is obvious the food release difference by different knives, even among the same manufacturers' different models (some few of the many manufacturers)

Potato is the biggest, maybe only problem


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## XooMG (Apr 28, 2015)

I am wondering about definitions. Lots of people throw around the terms "food release" and "sticking" but sometimes mean subtly different things.

Might be good to demonstrate or explain some specific examples.


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## labor of love (Apr 28, 2015)

supersayan3 said:


> For food release , i think that a traditional Japanese knife, left side flat, right side kisagi or convex is a sure winner.
> Out of experience, double convex knives are very good at food release.
> 
> Out of experience as well, mirror polish, or granton edge style side, raises the percentage of release.
> ...



Yes, I agree with this. Also, I really like sujis for potatoes. I have great success slicing potatoes with minimal sticking.


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## supersayan3 (Apr 28, 2015)

What a tip! Suji for potato! I will try!


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## daveb (Apr 28, 2015)

P. Tiger once did some interesting comparisons of different knives and food release with short videos. Fuzzy recollection is that product (taters) and technique were not variables, only the knife. I started searching and google found "how to release endorphins..." so I'm checking out for awhile.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 28, 2015)

daveb said:


> P. Tiger once did some interesting comparisons of different knives and food release with short videos. Fuzzy recollection is that product (taters) and technique were not variables, only the knife. I started searching and google found "how to release endorphins..." so I'm checking out for awhile.



If anyone is interested, all of the videos are on my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcDNo_K9VqC30UyG1IOAhuw

Rick (aka Pensacola Tiger)


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## Mrmnms (Apr 28, 2015)

I notice it when it's really bad and really good on certain product. Just recently tested out one of Mert's new gyutos, the food release was as good as anything I've used. Now if he could just learn to cook a little


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## Matus (Apr 29, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Must be your technique...



Probably for me too. I have just got Yoshikane SKD Hakata (and of course a review will come in a couple weeks) which is practically a wide bevel knife (with the wide bevel being nearly flat). I will see how it will fare when it comes to food release.


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## Geo87 (Apr 29, 2015)

mark76 said:


> For example, my Heiji knife is pretty thick at the spine. It also has a marked transition between its wide bevel and the rest of the blade, which one might think would contribute to food release.
> 
> However, this blade does not have any noticeable food release than a laser knife (e.g. Ashi Hamono ginga).



You should be noticing a substantial differance in food release between a laser and a wide bevel workborse. 
All wide bevel knives i've tried had excellent food release. Lasers have had terrible food release. 
When you cut the ends off an onion with a laser they stick to the blade, wide bevel they should fall off. 
Are you having trouble with short or tall product? Wide bevels may not be the best at releasing short product, tall they should excel at it.


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## panda (Apr 29, 2015)

Release has to do with grind, sticktion plays a roll as well. It's important for pros, I wouldn't care about it if I was a home cook.


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## BloodrootLS (Apr 29, 2015)

David and I talk about this a good bit and we spend inordinate amounts of time developing food release grinds. However, everyone talks about potatoes as the worst for sticking (and they are, especially softer watery ones), but when actually cutting food and not doing food release testing neither of us have ever had problems sticking even on full-flat ground knives. The reason being is that we draw cut potatoes and tend to use the tip 1/3 of the knife that's nice and thin, or even better a slicer. It's the fastest and most precise way that we personally can cut potatoes and it's completely stiction-free. Perhaps other people use different technique and sticking is for them a real problem with potatoes. For us using them for stiction testing is essentially an academic exercise. To me something like sweet potatoes or cucumber or squash makes more sense.


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## chinacats (Apr 29, 2015)

panda said:


> Release has to do with grind, sticktion plays a roll as well. It's important for pros, I wouldn't care about it if I was a home cook.



Unless you were a home cook...then you'd care

I hate lasers for this very reason.


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## CaremeFraiche (Apr 29, 2015)

I know some chefs who use bread knives for cutting sticky foods such as fingerling potatoes and it works pretty well.


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## chinacats (Apr 29, 2015)

Blasphemy!


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## SolidSnake03 (Apr 29, 2015)

I agree with careme, ever use a tojiro dp bread on a sweet potato? Works astoundingly well.....


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## CutFingers (Apr 29, 2015)

Some of my cheapest knives release food better than my more expensive knives. Food release is an added bonus of having a good knife. Just because it doesn't release doesn't mean it's a bad knife.


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## chefcomesback (Apr 29, 2015)

For dense items I tend to use the flat mid section or heel depending on the size of the item I am cutting . If I have to keep removing food off the knife constantly i will reach for another knife


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## labor of love (Apr 29, 2015)

The very first cut I make on a potato would be to slice it in half longways. Then lay both pieces flat side down. Then a series slicing/drawing motions and turning the pieces with my hand and slicing some more. Ive saved so much valuable prep time preparing gallons of hashbrowns for brunch prep every week using a suji for this stuff. Even using my cheap fujiwara carbon suji can yield good results doing this. After the first initial cut to chop the potato in half, its really just a bunch of slicing motions.


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## daveb (Apr 29, 2015)

SolidSnake03 said:


> ...ever use a tojiro dp bread on a sweet potato?



I've never used a tojiro bread knife at all. That's what they make Gude's for. :groucho:


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## SolidSnake03 (Apr 30, 2015)

The Gude is just a sword that people pretend is a kitchen knife.....


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## Geo87 (Apr 30, 2015)

Honestly I wish I had a gude. I cut sourdough on an Angle quite often the extra length would be perfect. 10.5 inch sometimes isn't enough for me.
I think the the gude looks perfect  

Cutting dense items with a bread knife you would get horrible steering though?


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## Mrmnms (Apr 30, 2015)

daveb said:


> I've never used a tojiro bread knife at all. That's what they make Gude's for. :groucho:



Show off . Love that knife.


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## SolidSnake03 (Apr 30, 2015)

Also, any suggestions where to get the giant Gude in the USA? Online sale is fine but I've found it hard to track one down...since now I'm tempted by it


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## mark76 (Apr 30, 2015)

Nah... get the Tojiro


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## chinacats (Apr 30, 2015)

mark76 said:


> Nah... get the Tojiro



Apples and oranges...


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## daveb (Apr 30, 2015)

If Maksim loved us he would retail the Gude Alpha series (same knife with olive wood handles)

As it is the Gudes w standard handles are avail in US from Lehman

210:

https://www.lehmans.com/p-8502-bread-knife-by-franz-gude.aspx

320 (The mother of all bread knives):

https://www.lehmans.com/p-8502-bread-knife-by-franz-gude.aspx

In Europe from Tenara or Circa (for lefties too) Prices listed include VAT.

https://www.tenera.ch/advanced_sear...rch_in_description=1&inc_subcat=1&language=en

Now about that food release thing....


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## labor of love (Apr 30, 2015)

mark76 said:


> Nah... get the Tojiro



Yep.


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## Salty dog (May 1, 2015)

Just a couple thoughts:

Technique used for four potatoes is different than technique for 40. (Just an example)
The suji is a good idea but essentially you'll have to slow down. 
Using the last 1/3 of a gyuto blade is also a good idea but it puts additional strain on the wrist.
Cutting the potato in half is also a good idea unless you need thin round slices.
The thing about stiction with potatoes is you often need to slice and arrange "in order". So if you have spuds flying around it slows you down big time. 
Also, transporting the spuds from cutting service to vessel is much quicker when they stay nicely together.
Some of the same things apply if you're cubing or julienne.


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## Cadillac J (May 2, 2015)

labor of love said:


> Also, I really like sujis for potatoes.



I like suji for EVERYTHING.


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