# First single bevel has arrived...any advice/recommendations?



## Zwiefel (Jun 12, 2013)

Just got my first single-bevel in the mail today...putting a few coats of mineral oil on the handle + saya to prevent staining, etc. as the wood arrive very raw (nicely sanded + finished, just raw, if that's the right word).Looking for any thoughts on techniques, cuts, meals, sharpening, etc. for a noob with this to build skills around all aspects of owning using this type of knife.Knife is 210mm Uraku White #2 Usuba, left-handed.Welcome any thoughts...don't assume I know anything...except, perhaps, the difference between 1 and 2 bevels


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## schanop (Jun 12, 2013)

Put it on the stone to open, if Jon has not done so already :-D

A koba can be helpful for white steel usuba. Just be gentle with it.


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## Zwiefel (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks! Jon did initial sharpening on it for me....and it's wicked sharp, and wicked thin. 

Whats a koba? How does one use it?


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## GlassEye (Jun 12, 2013)

Zwiefel said:


> Thanks! Jon did initial sharpening on it for me....and it's wicked sharp, and wicked thin.
> 
> Whats a koba? How does one use it?



Koba=microbevel


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## mhlee (Jun 12, 2013)

Nice buy, Z. 

Have you watched Jon's videos on single bevel sharpening? They're a great place to start to understand how to sharpen single bevel knives. 

I'm certainly no expert, but, I participated in one of Jon's old Skype classes and spoken with him and have had him look at my work a bunch of times. I always think of a few important points that I learned from him that are in his videos:

1. Pay attention to where I put my fingers and where you're exerting pressure on the knife, _i.e._ up above the shinogi line vs. toward the edge when sharpening these two different areas; 
2. Using a slight twist of the wrist to support sharpening the area above the shinogi line vs. the area toward the edge;
3. Using light pressure when sharpening;
4. Looking to keep the shinogi line even and parallel to the edge.

I actually enjoy sharpening single bevel knives more than double bevel knives.

Try doing Katsuramuki! Good luck and have fun with that knife!


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## jimbob (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm in your boat too z, having recently bought a Kama usuba in blue steel. Am appreciating these tips. While there is lots of good videos, I still feel some direct tutelage would be best. Didn't even think about Skype classes, that would be very handy! Chefs armoury here in Melbourne does one on one classes but at 300 just too pricy for me at the mo!


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## jimbob (Jun 12, 2013)

And really enjoying the knife, scallion shaving and thin cuts in general have been improved. Katsuramuki, I nailed it the first time, think I could do it again?! Practice practice practice


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## Zwiefel (Jun 12, 2013)

GlassEye said:


> Koba=microbevel



Doh! I probably should have known that! I know there are set of knives Jon recommends this for: the SIH series, and at least some single bevels. Thanks for the pointer!



mhlee said:


> Nice buy, Z.
> 
> Have you watched Jon's videos on single bevel sharpening? They're a great place to start to understand how to sharpen single bevel knives.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I'm excited about learning something totally new. 

Yup, I rewatched them the day I placed the order, as well as re-watching the Japanese Knife Society vids he helped produce. I'm going to get to spend a little time with our friend in Fleetwood in a couple of weeks, and will definitely want to spend some time on this...I need to make a little flash card of these points to put on my sharpening kit!



jimbob said:


> And really enjoying the knife, scallion shaving and thin cuts in general have been improved. Katsuramuki, I nailed it the first time, think I could do it again?! Practice practice practice



This is definitely some of the stuff I'm thinking of...and had katsuramuki in mind specifically


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## stereo.pete (Jun 12, 2013)

Pics please. irate1:


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## Zwiefel (Jun 12, 2013)

stereo.pete said:


> Pics please. irate1:



Heh...I knew I wouldn't be able to get back from dinner in time to avoid that 

Just unboxed (well, a couple of coats of mineral oil):











My best choil shot ever...but still not perfect:





Not sure if this shot is useful:





Can clearly see the line around the perimeter from Jon's initial uraoshi, and get a little sense of the grind of the ura..I couldn't figure out the right angle/light to do better here:


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## Crothcipt (Jun 13, 2013)

I use my fuguhiki for cutting potato skins. Only thing I have found other than fish from the supermarket to practice on.


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## Zwiefel (Jun 13, 2013)

Crothcipt said:


> I use my fuguhiki for cutting potato skins. Only thing I have found other than fish from the supermarket to practice on.



What does "cutting potato skins" mean? peeling? that doesn't seem right. Maybe like the appetizer?


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## JBroida (Jun 13, 2013)

fwiw, i did put a koba on that knife


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## schanop (Jun 13, 2013)

Master speaks :-D


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## Zwiefel (Jun 13, 2013)

JBroida said:


> fwiw, i did put a koba on that knife



Good to know! I was going to PM to ask if it was a good idea on this particular knife...if any 

Thanks again for your customer-mindedness, you are an excellent example to every small business owner of the value of caring about your customer (as are many on this forum, actually).


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## kpeddie2010 (Jun 13, 2013)

learn to kastumuraki and push cut green onions and regular onions as thin as u think u can.
It will teach you how to minimize your movement and be very efficient at push cutting. i got exponentially more efficient 
at push cutting when i started push cutting mountains of green onions and onions shavings for sushi. Try to be exact on your 
size of slices because imo food taste better when your slices are consistent.


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## Patatas Bravas (Jun 13, 2013)

DO, I know you've got several books on curries  but I'm guessing you don't have 'Japanese Kitchen Knives: Essential Techniques and Recipies'. It's good for this sort of question, along with the great videos mentioned.

If I'd just received my first usuba (sadly, that day hath not arrived) I'd probably do the 'Needle-cut Vegetable Salad with Sesame Dressing' on p.34 because those fine, fine needle cuts look cool. Almost like little vermicellis.

Update us on how you're enjoying it. Man, I'll have to get one myself now.

As for the koba ...



JBroida said:


> fwiw, i did put a koba on that knife



I'm curious if this was a 1-bevel koba or 2. If a 1, is the micro-bev on the front side or back of the knife? (From what I know, Mr Broida puts micro single-bevs when he sharpens double-bevelled knives and I suppose he would do the same in this case.


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## jimbob (Jun 13, 2013)

Just bought that book thanks patavas! Looks useful....


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## Zwiefel (Jun 13, 2013)

Patatas Bravas said:


> DO, I know you've got several books on curries  but I'm guessing you don't have 'Japanese Kitchen Knives: Essential Techniques and Recipies'. It's good for this sort of question, along with the great videos mentioned.
> 
> If I'd just received my first usuba (sadly, that day hath not arrived) I'd probably do the 'Needle-cut Vegetable Salad with Sesame Dressing' on p.34 because those fine, fine needle cuts look cool. Almost like little vermicellis.



Awesome recco PB! Going to see if I can have that delivered to charlotte for my arrival there next week.



Patatas Bravas said:


> Update us on how you're enjoying it. Man, I'll have to get one myself now.



Will do...I'll take some photos of my incompetence for the group 



Patatas Bravas said:


> As for the koba ...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious if this was a 1-bevel koba or 2. If a 1, is the micro-bev on the front side or back of the knife? (From what I know, Mr Broida puts micro single-bevs when he sharpens double-bevelled knives and I suppose he would do the same in this case.



IIRC from his videos, Jon usually puts it on the blade face side only. I think in some cases he recommends a back-bevel on the last 1-2" of the heel for Deba though. 

Similar for the uBevel he recommends for the SIH..but I can't remember which side he recommends for that.


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## Patatas Bravas (Jun 13, 2013)

Thanks, guys, but hardly my recommendation. Been mentioned here before and more than once I'm sure. Good book and handy reference, the 3 big knives of Japan. I appreciate it in part because I get a bit sick of being at the computer checking into this subject; a book is a relief! 

(Along with this, would also love to see a book all about stones and sharpening; might exist in Japanese, but doesn't in English for sure.)

Looking forward to the travel usuba shots, DO. Will you & the missus be travelling by camper?


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## mhlee (Jun 13, 2013)

I recall a thread about this before and, IIRC, microbevels are only put on the back side of a deba.

I know from my own personal mistake years ago that putting a bevel on the back side of a yanagiba is a mistake - you won't be able to do proper uraoshi sharpening on a yanagiba because it creates an upward bevel on the back side behind the edge, instead of it being flat.


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## Patatas Bravas (Jun 13, 2013)

mhlee said:


> I recall a thread about this before and, IIRC, microbevels are only put on the back side of a deba...



This rings a bell, with debas. I believe the sturdier, heel-end half of the edge, which makes sense as it's were you're more likely to do the business.


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## Zwiefel (Jun 13, 2013)

Patatas Bravas said:


> a book is a relief!



I know that feeling...I'm looking forward to doing some reading on my trip...on the Nook of course! Kinda looking forward to limited and intermittent internet access.



Patatas Bravas said:


> (Along with this, would also love to see a book all about stones and sharpening; might exist in Japanese, but doesn't in English for sure.)



I believe this is a recommendation I got from KKF: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1561581259/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



Patatas Bravas said:


> Looking forward to the travel usuba shots, DO. Will you & the missus be travelling by camper?



Yup, taking the RV on a 7 state tour. I remembered that I had some green onions in the crisper that were starting to go soft, so I gave it a go...following the video from JapaneseKnifeSociety as closely as I could. Definitely improved as I worked my way from left-to-right. Here is a shot of the final rounds...not awful...After being shocked at the performance of my Masamoto, then my SIH, I really didn't think that could happen again...but it did.


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## Zwiefel (Jun 13, 2013)

mhlee said:


> I recall a thread about this before and, IIRC, microbevels are only put on the back side of a deba.
> 
> I know from my own personal mistake years ago that putting a bevel on the back side of a yanagiba is a mistake - you won't be able to do proper uraoshi sharpening on a yanagiba because it creates an upward bevel on the back side behind the edge, instead of it being flat.



this is precisely what I recall from Jon's various comments and videos on the topic.


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## mhlee (Jun 13, 2013)

I need to further clarify one thing. I put an upward bevel along most of the back side of the edge, not just a small portion.


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## Zwiefel (Jun 13, 2013)

mhlee said:


> I need to further clarify one thing. I put an upward bevel along most of the back side of the edge, not just a small portion.



on 1-bevels?


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## mhlee (Jun 13, 2013)

Zwiefel said:


> on 1-bevels?



This was my mistake that I referred to in my earlier post. I mistakenly put an upward bevel on the back side of the edge most of my (luckily cheap) yanagiba, not just a small portion of the back side. i


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## ThEoRy (Jun 13, 2013)

Looks weird, the bevel is on the wrong side.


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## Zwiefel (Jun 13, 2013)

mhlee said:


> This was my mistake that I referred to in my earlier post. I mistakenly put an upward bevel on the back side of the edge most of my (luckily cheap) yanagiba, not just a small portion of the back side. i



Got it! That makes more sense...well, I mean...now I understand


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## Zwiefel (Jun 13, 2013)

ThEoRy said:


> Looks weird, the bevel is on the wrong side.



It's very hard to find a properly made knife...I understand your confusion.


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## ThEoRy (Jun 13, 2013)

:rofl2:


Zwiefel said:


> It's very hard to find a properly made knife...I understand your confusion.


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## JBroida (Jun 13, 2013)

Patatas Bravas said:


> I'm curious if this was a 1-bevel koba or 2. If a 1, is the micro-bev on the front side or back of the knife? (From what I know, Mr Broida puts micro single-bevs when he sharpens double-bevelled knives and I suppose he would do the same in this case.



what do you mean by this? I think you're asking if i microbeveled one side or both.... if so, i only did the bevel side. Debas are the only exception i can think of off the top of my head here.


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## daveb (Jun 13, 2013)

Zwiefel said:


> I believe this is a recommendation I got from KKF: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1561581259/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> 
> 
> Z, Sounds like a great road trip. When you get to I-75 turn right and go about 14 hours, then blow the horn.:cool2:
> ...


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## Zwiefel (Jun 13, 2013)

Thanks DaveB! I also just remembered your materials on Google Docs..need to re-check those.

the book I noted was for Patatas Bravas...he mentioned wanted info on sharpening that was written in english.


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## TB_London (Jun 13, 2013)

Patatas Bravas said:


> (Along with this, would also love to see a book all about stones and sharpening; might exist in Japanese, but doesn't in English for sure.)



Have you seen Chad Ward's An edge in the kitchen?


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## Patatas Bravas (Jun 13, 2013)

Zwiefel said:


> .. I remembered that I had some green onions in the crisper that were starting to go soft, so I gave it a go...following the video from JapaneseKnifeSociety as closely as I could. Definitely improved as I worked my way from left-to-right. Here is a shot of the final rounds...not awful...After being shocked at the performance of my Masamoto, then my SIH, I really didn't think that could happen again...but it did.



Nice! Now I'll really have to hurry with my own usuba...



JBroida said:


> Patatas Bravas said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious if this was a 1-bevel koba or 2. If a 1, is the micro-bev on the front side or back of the knife? (From what I know, Mr Broida puts micro single-bevs when he sharpens double-bevelled knives and I suppose he would do the same in this case.
> ...



Trying to write quickly with a baby on lap. 

Translation: I know that you usually add micro-bevs when you sharpen, and I think you just add a single micro-bev, not a double. If so, I was wondering what side of the usuba you might have put the micro-bev on, but you've answered that. And yes, I was curious because I've seen how a single micro-bev is put on the back of a deba.


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## Crothcipt (Jun 14, 2013)

Zwiefel said:


> What does "cutting potato skins" mean? peeling? that doesn't seem right. Maybe like the appetizer?


yep cut long ways in quarters, then cut the center out. I have been using the fuguhiki to learn more controll.


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