# The best tool for slicing cold cuts, and charcuterie...



## Steampunk (Jan 27, 2016)

Hello,

Since my favorite local deli went out of business, I have been starting to dabble in preparing my own deli-style meats... I've started simply with roast beef, turkey, pork tenderloin, chicken breast, etc, and have a book on charcuterie on order to help me advance further. I've been using my Zakuri Aogami #1 270mm Sujihiki to slice down the cold roasts, but have been struggling getting uniform, thin (1-3mm thick) slices. I've experimented with different edges (Toothy, refined, natural, synthetic, etc.), and different cutting techniques, but the wide double bevel grind tends to steer my cuts, and creates a lot of friction that deforms the meat, which further throws off my slices. With more practice, I may be able to get somewhat better results, but I kind of feel like I'm using the wrong tool for the job. The Zakuri works great for carving a large turkey breast off the bone or cutting thick serving slices, but for nice, thin slices for sandwiches it fights me every step of the way. 

For the application of slicing down cold-cuts, and other deli-style products, should I be looking at:

(A) - A thinner, and or more asymmetrical sujihiki [Gesshin Ginga, Konosuke HD2, etc.]
(B) - A yanagiba [Gesshin Uraku or Kochi; possibly fortified with a micro-bevel if needed.]
(C) - An electric deli slicer [Professional-grade Chef's Choice, or maybe something nicer like a smaller Berkel if I can spring for it.]

For reasons of cleanup and storage I would prefer a knife, but if I'm barking up the wrong tree trying to even crudely replicate what my old deli did without the tools of that trade, I'll break down and get a 7-9" rotary slicer... I just wanted to tap into the experience of those on this forum before making an expensive move in the wrong direction. 

Thank you in advance! 

- Steampunk


----------



## ThEoRy (Jan 27, 2016)

C.


----------



## spoiledbroth (Jan 27, 2016)

answer D, none of the above

Just kidding! It's the deli slicer. I don't think I've ever seen a residential model that was of decent quality. But most of the commercial models require alot of counter space.


----------



## Bill13 (Jan 27, 2016)

I think you would be better off going with the deli slicer. I've been thinking of the same thing when trying to cut up the bacon I make, the storage is an issue here too. I've been looking on Craig's List and EBay off and on for a couple of months. After that I would vote for a sujihiki.


----------



## bkultra (Jan 27, 2016)

I agree a deli slicer (commercial unit like Hobart) is the best in this situation. You can often find them being resold at auction for a fraction of their retail price.


for other charcuterie needs you should look at some of the past Bloodroot Blades offerings... http://www.bloodrootblades.com/protein/


----------



## jacko9 (Jan 27, 2016)

I have the Konosuke HD2 240mm Gyuto and the Konosuke Fujiyama B2 210mm Gyuto but, my Gesshin Kagekiyo 270mm Sujihiki is my go to knife when slicing as thin as I want.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...ts/gesshin-kagekiyo-270mm-white-2-wa-sujihiki

For fun I was trying to see just how thin I could cut some lunch meat and my wife told to stop fooling around and cut some lunch meat since my paper thin slices weren't adding up to a sandwich very quickly ;-)


----------



## DamageInc (Jan 27, 2016)

I use an electric deli slicer. As awesome as my knife skills are, I have a hard time getting large, very evenly thin cuts of dried cured meats using sujis or slicers. I can get small thin slices, but keeping the right thickness, or rather thinness, all the way through a 15cm diameter capicola is a little hard. So I invested in an electric deli slicer.


----------



## jacko9 (Jan 27, 2016)

I don't doubt that an electric deli slicer can give better repeatable results - I just don't like having to take it apart and clean it and put it away after each use. 15cm capicola is a lot larger than I can get at our local deli's but -I can see what you mean with meat loafs that large.


----------



## Dardeau (Jan 27, 2016)

There is no substitute for a deli slicer


----------



## spoiledbroth (Jan 27, 2016)

Dardeau said:


> There is no substitute for a deli slicer



This.

It is simply not the same to slice by hand, as you are not a machine you will inevitably produce slices of uneven thickness. An evenly sliced cold cut sandwich to my mind is a world away in terms of mouth feel from hand slices. Charcuterie is of course a completely different affair, but unless we are talking country ham I'm not sure where the problem is in using a gyuto.


----------



## MAS4T0 (Jan 27, 2016)

spoiledbroth said:


> An evenly sliced cold cut sandwich to my mind is a world away in terms of mouth feel from hand slices.



Do you mean you prefer hand cut slices for sandwiches?

I certainly do.


----------



## panda (Jan 27, 2016)

Cut into blocks and partially freeze, will be easier to get thin slices by knife. Use a 270mm thin gyuto with a 1k or less grit edge.


----------



## Steampunk (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you all for your replies, and affirming my suspicions regarding the deli slicer (Both that I need one to replicate the deli experience, and that I need to drop some coin to get a decent one.)... Currently my results look more like John Belushi's 'Samuri Delicatessen' than Katz's Deli. 

My longest knife at the moment is the Zakuri suji, and the wide bevels tend to follow the path of least resistance, and steer out of the cut when trying to slice meat thinly (Which at the moment consist mostly of roasts, until I get my feet wet with curing, smoking, processing, etc.). I don't mind somewhat rustic, hand-cut slices for what I'm doing at this moment (Instead of paper-thin, identical slices.), but with the steering I'm having a hard time getting whole slices that don't have massive thickness variance within the slice.

I didn't know if different knife geometry, with more asymmetry would help, but I can also totally understand the deli-slicer argument... With a constantly spinning blade you overcome the friction, you have set stops for repeatable thickness, and the continuous cut avoids meat deflection. Makes perfect sense to me! However, from my initial research decent deli slicers are quite expensive ($500 & up), which is really pushing the budget I had originally intended... If I can't end up making the deli slicer happen, what might you suggest as the next best alternative?



panda said:


> Cut into blocks and partially freeze, will be easier to get thin slices by knife. Use a 270mm thin gyuto with a 1k or less grit edge.



This is interesting to me... So far I've gotten my best results cutting the roasts straight out of the refrigerator, with a really toothy edge off my Gesshin 2K. Based upon what you say, part of this problem is I'm just not taking this idea far enough!

I don't have a gyuto of that length to try this out (Otherwise I would tonight!), but I'm curious why you suggest a thin gyuto over a suji of similar thickness? I would've thought that the added blade height would've added to the friction in the cut, but does the extra blade height actually help to stabilize the cut? 

Again, thank you all for your suggestions and input! I really appreciate it... :thumbsup:

- Steampunk


----------



## brainsausage (Jan 27, 2016)

Deli slicer. I've fabricated hundreds of pounds of cured meats, deli slicer all the way. No contest.


----------



## MAS4T0 (Jan 27, 2016)

I very much like the idea of being able to buy full pieces of cured meat and cut them on a deli slicer at home.

I visit France once in a while, so would be able to bring a good supply (of the really good stuff) back with me. How would be best to store charcuteries long term and are there any compact deli slicer options which would be suitable for home use?

I'm not worried too much about price, but it would probably be difficult to fit a full size unit in a residential kitchen.


----------



## spoiledbroth (Jan 27, 2016)

MAS4T0 said:


> Do you mean you prefer hand cut slices for sandwiches?
> 
> I certainly do.



The opposite actually!  but cold cuts may be different here than uk.


----------



## MAS4T0 (Jan 27, 2016)

spoiledbroth said:


> The opposite actually!  but cold cuts may be different here than uk.



Thanks for getting back to me!

Very interesting. It'd probably just a personal thing, but I find that most cold cuts prepared on a deli slicer feel almost like baloney in the mouth when compared to the texture of a hand cut piece.

Just out of interest, which cuts do you use?


----------



## spoiledbroth (Jan 27, 2016)

For me something like corned beef or pastrami - cold needs to be sliced on a machine to make me really happy (so that would be on a sandwich)

however those same brisket hot... with mash and veg for dinner? hand slice please.

Anything like salami or sausage, as I say, can be cut by hand and I'm still happy.... but yeah maybe it's the satisfaction of knowing I have 20 layers of luncheon meat on my sanga 

Ham can be hand cut depending on the quality. If it's reclaimed meat type cold cut we're talking then slice it sub 1mm so I can pretend it doesn't exist.


----------



## MAS4T0 (Jan 27, 2016)

In that case I agree!

I think I mistook what you guys were meaning by cold cuts, from the cuts mentioned it would seem you're meaning luncheon meats, which I would certainly agree are better prepared on a deli slicer.

I was meaning cold roasted joints such as gammon or rib-eye.


----------



## jacko9 (Jan 27, 2016)

I still think that the breaking out of a slicer from storage and then cleaning the slicer (I used to work in a deli) and then storing it for ONE or TWO sandwiches is a PITB. I don't disagree with the efficiency of an electric slicer but, for two old timers we just don't eat that much and a nice sharp Sujihiki does quite well.

Jon at Japanese Imports sharpened the Gesshin Kagekiyo Sujihiki for me when I purchased it and it cuts paper thin slices - good enough for us ;-)


----------



## CowichanBay (Jan 27, 2016)

bkultra said:


> I agree a deli slicer (commercial unit like Hobart) is the best in this situation. You can often find them being resold at auction for a fraction of their retail price.
> 
> 
> If your counter logistics can accommodate, this is the way to go. If not, freezing is your friend


----------

