# History Channel - Forged in Fire



## TheCaptain (Mar 3, 2017)

Anyone else into this? (USA based cable network show). It's another "competition among the masters" type of show and unfortunately they focus on weapons (cooler I guess:eyebrow rather than kitchen knives.

Still, that said and done it's fascinating to watch the actual process of a blade being forged and handles being made. Last episode I learned about "container Damascus". Yea, the judging panel is annoying (esp the weapons expert who is far too impressed with himself) but they do provide good and consistent feedback.

What's even better is that DH, DD and I all love watching it so I'm slowly pulling them into my rabbithole...

:spiteful:


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## khashy (Mar 3, 2017)

Yup, I watch it online, really like it. Some of the smiths we know have been on. Off the top of my head I think Maumasi was on in the first series


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## vai777 (Mar 3, 2017)

Yeah, good show... Murray Carter was on an episode the first season


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## cheflivengood (Mar 3, 2017)

There was this guy...maumasi something...pretty great.


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## preizzo (Mar 3, 2017)

Yeah watched them, I belive there is another tread about this topic....


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## lans8939 (Mar 3, 2017)

I love watching that show.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Mar 6, 2017)

@cheflivengood IIRC The maker behind Maumasi Fire Arts is a forum member...


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## Noodle Soup (Mar 7, 2017)

It is pretty strange to watch what I know to be some of the most skilled smiths in the business drop out on the first or second round. I kind of get the impression they may not be that great at following instructions sometimes.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Mar 8, 2017)

@Noodle Soup masters and teachers that can teach the student to be the student, rather than teach them to be the master or teacher, are very rare.


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## Noodle Soup (Mar 8, 2017)

At least one of the guys that has been on twice and dropped out early twice is a college art teacher I consider one of the best smiths in the business. I have known him for maybe 20 years and he makes incredible "art" knives. But he has sure never shown that on the Forge in Fire.


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## rami_m (Mar 8, 2017)

When someone who has demonstrated the skill can't pass the artificial test. Who's fault it is, the student or the test?
I haven't seen the series at all so I have no evidence. I would think that this is an entertainment show and the results should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 12, 2017)

Not a huge fan of "reality" shows the exaggerated drama is overdone. That said was an early fan of American Idol just because liked watching young folks putting it out there some were really talented.

I have been watching Forged in Fire because of this thread. I think some of these smiths are specialized with making certain types of blades cannot be easy to be forced out of your comfort zone. The finalist work at home forges is impressive to see how they do their best to recreate famous blades. 

Two of my other guilty pleasure shows are Wheeler Dealers where Ed China does all the work. The other like to watch every now & then is Wicked Tuna hauling in Bluefin on rod & reel.


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## DaveInMesa (Apr 12, 2017)

I just finished reading the previous thread on Forged in Fire. The general consensus in that thread was that the show is a joke. Personally, I like it.

They may not always get it right, and some of the tests are questionable, but it's still interesting. And Mareko won, the second time.


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## Salty dog (Apr 12, 2017)

I especially like the testing part when they cut open faux human figures. It brings out the suppressed primal urge to dismember and kill people.


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## ashy2classy (Apr 12, 2017)

Just found out about this show yesterday. Haven't had the chance to watch any episodes. Looks interesting...


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## GorillaGrunt (Apr 12, 2017)

Salty dog said:


> I especially like the testing part when they cut open faux human figures. It brings out the suppressed primal urge to dismember and kill people.



"This knife will kill."

I think the show is interesting. I wouldn't say it's educational -- it won't teach someone how to make a knife -- and it's as hammy as any other reality show, but it isn't completely devoid of informational value, merely not authoritative just like anything else on television. It might be more entertaining if the reality show tropes weren't so played out.


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## TheCaptain (Apr 12, 2017)

I enjoy watching the show because it pushes the craftsmen out of their comfort zone. That and since I know absolutely nothing about forging it does at least give me some idea of the work involved in turning out a hand made knife.

As someone else said, it's also very interesting to me to see how much the home shop setup differs and what they are able to produce.


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## gic (Apr 12, 2017)

As I learn more about knife making it seems stupider and stupider. They ask people to make knives out of random bits of scrap stuff without providing them with any equipment to test the stuff or the time to jerryrig something to do it. No maker I have met thinks this makes sense.


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## TheCaptain (Apr 12, 2017)

Meh - in the end it's entertainment meant to sell advertising. At a minimum getting a 1 in 3 shot at $10K isn't such a bad thing.

Since we always record and skip through the commercials I have no idea who the advertisers think is the target audience.


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## DaveInMesa (Apr 12, 2017)

gic said:


> No maker I have met thinks this makes sense.



Are they saying it makes no sense as a standard practice for knifemakers, or it makes no sense as a test of a maker's ability to adapt and overcome? Because the first is true, but the second is the whole point of the show. The premise is, if you're good enough, you'll be able to work with whatever you're given. 

There was a lot of that sort of b*tching in the previous thread on the show. Sour grapes from guys who know they wouldn't "cut it" in that contest? Hard to say, but it would be pointless to allow the makers to produce their finest work under ideal conditions, using their favorite steels, with no time constraints. They'd all produce good-to-excellent work, but then how would you judge it? With a micrometer? And who'd want to watch it? At best, it would be a documentary, and lack all sense of drama. It might be educational, but it would not be good TV.


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## Dave Martell (Apr 12, 2017)

DaveInMesa said:


> Are they saying it makes no sense as a standard practice for knifemakers, or it makes no sense as a test of a maker's ability to adapt and overcome? Because the first is true, but the second is the whole point of the show. The premise is, if you're good enough, you'll be able to work with whatever you're given.
> 
> There was a lot of that sort of b*tching in the previous thread on the show. Sour grapes from guys who know they wouldn't "cut it" in that contest? Hard to say, but it would be pointless to allow the makers to produce their finest work under ideal conditions, using their favorite steels, with no time constraints. They'd all produce good-to-excellent work, but then how would you judge it? With a micrometer? And who'd want to watch it? At best, it would be a documentary, and lack all sense of drama. It might be educational, but it would not be good TV.




Dave, is *this* the "_previous thread_" with the "_Sour grapes from guys who know they wouldn't "cut it" in that contest _"?


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## DaveInMesa (Apr 12, 2017)

Dave Martell said:


> Dave, is *this* the "_previous thread_" with the "_Sour grapes from guys who know they wouldn't "cut it" in that contest _"?



Yep


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## gic (Apr 12, 2017)

DaveinMesa: Yes a good maker can work with scrap steel, look at the magic the bloodroot guys do with reclaimed steel. But there is no rational reason they don't provide these guys with the tools needed to determine what's in that random crap (like the show with Mareko, random pieces of street steel with no idea of how much carbon is in the pieces?) They do this because it helps sell the show, not because it tests a maker's ability. If they wanted to test a maker's ability they would always give everyone the same steel and tell them what is in it or provide them with the tools so they could figure it out.


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## DaveInMesa (Apr 13, 2017)

gic said:


> DaveinMesa: Yes a good maker can work with scrap steel, look at the magic the bloodroot guys do with reclaimed steel. But there is no rational reason they don't provide these guys with the tools needed to determine what's in that random crap (like the show with Mareko, random pieces of street steel with no idea of how much carbon is in the pieces?) They do this because it helps sell the show, not because it tests a maker's ability. If they wanted to test a maker's ability they would always give everyone the same steel and tell them what is in it or provide them with the tools so they could figure it out.



Well, maybe, but it sounds like a matter of perspective, to me. You, and a few other guys, apparently have some "vision" of what the show "should" be, and it Pisses some of you off that they aren't doing what you want. 

To me, it's a level playing field, the contestants all know how it works, at least this year, and they're allowed to bring their own tools. And I haven't seen a single case where the material was responsible for someone's failure. I've seen failures due to bad design, bad time management, bad heat treating, bad forging, and just about everything EXCEPT the materials. That said, those "mystery metals" test the contestants' knowledge of how various steels are used OUTSIDE the forge. Seems perfectly legitimate to me.


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## Dave Martell (Apr 13, 2017)

DaveInMesa said:


> Are they saying it makes no sense as a standard practice for knifemakers, or it makes no sense as a test of a maker's ability to adapt and overcome? Because the first is true, but the second is the whole point of the show. The premise is, if you're good enough, you'll be able to work with whatever you're given.
> 
> There was a lot of that sort of b*tching in the previous thread on the show. Sour grapes from guys who know they wouldn't "cut it" in that contest? Hard to say, but it would be pointless to allow the makers to produce their finest work under ideal conditions, using their favorite steels, with no time constraints. They'd all produce good-to-excellent work, but then how would you judge it? With a micrometer? And who'd want to watch it? At best, it would be a documentary, and lack all sense of drama. It might be educational, but it would not be good TV.





Dave Martell said:


> Dave, is *this* the "_previous thread_" with the "_Sour grapes from guys who know they wouldn't "cut it" in that contest _"?





DaveInMesa said:


> Yep





Dave, I was a critic of the show early on because it felt like I was watching good people being set up for failure. Over time I've come to see it as what the contestants seem to get from it, a chance to compete and potentially win a nice prize, and maybe even get some exposure as a side benefit. If the contestants are OK with the show then who am I to say? 

As to the sour grapes issue, I spoke in that thread so maybe I was lumped into that category? Don't answer that, it doesn't matter. I will say, however, that there's no sour grapes from myself - there can't be - I'm not a bladesmith - so yeah..... I for sure can't "cut it". 

So while I can't speak for the other guys I do have to speak up for one of them. There's no doubt in my mind that DT has the skills to pay the bills as a bladesmith. Maybe his health would preclude him from taking part in such a strenuous timed competition, that might be true, but regarding every other aspect he without question could "cut it" and would likely mop the deck in the process. Knowing the man as I do I doubt that he was souring graping it, he's too classy for that. You may not have even been speaking about him either and I don't mean to put words in your mouth.

I also don't mean to start anything here, no ill will intended, I just wanted to say my piece is all.

Dave


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## Salty dog (Apr 13, 2017)

I suppose you can't blame the producers of the show. They'll put darn near anything on TV that people will watch and advertisers can sell stuff. Pretty much like those cooking shows (Most) that are absolutely ridiculous. Next will be Forged in Fire Junior. 

Whatever.


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## Mucho Bocho (Apr 13, 2017)

I like it personally. At least it gives us knife people something interesting to watch, even if its a reality show. I like to see the different blacksmiths come into the competition all tough and confident then to be asked to leave the forge... The tests are kinda outrageous too. Least we get to see a hammer, grinders and lots of sparks.


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## DaveInMesa (Apr 13, 2017)

Dave Martell said:


> Dave, I was a critic of the show early on because it felt like I was watching good people being set up for failure. Over time I've come to see it as what the contestants seem to get from it, a chance to compete and potentially win a nice prize, and maybe even get some exposure as a side benefit. If the contestants are OK with the show then who am I to say?
> 
> As to the sour grapes issue, I spoke in that thread so maybe I was lumped into that category? Don't answer that, it doesn't matter. I will say, however, that there's no sour grapes from myself - there can't be - I'm not a bladesmith - so yeah..... I for sure can't "cut it".
> 
> ...



Maybe that perception that people were being set up to fail is why it bothered so many people. I don't really know any of those people in the other thread, so I certainly can't say. I just questioned what they were saying, and why. You didn't have much to say, as I recall, other than not liking the first episode you watched. But, I wasn't speaking about anyone in particular. It was more a comment on the overall tone of the whole thread. Maybe they took it personally because some of their friends or idols bombed on the show. I don't know. For me, it's just nice to have some knife-related entertainment to watch. I actually know one of the guys from ... season 1?... season 2?... not sure, but he bombed on round 2 of his episode. Such is life. Most of the contestants I've seen have had very specific skillsets (no, not like Liam Neeson in Taken), and the show pushed them waaaaaay outside their comfort zones. But, that's the point of it. I've lost count of how many times I've heard the winner say "I've never made a sword before", and I'm sure they've all made more since then.

Anyway, no ill will intended from my side, either, and no offense taken.


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## Dave Martell (Apr 13, 2017)

:goodpost:


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 19, 2017)

Have been skipping commercials for years. Record almost everything. DVR's are widespread these days and getting better functions. I really miss Lawyer's suing, car insurance, fast food, and machines to take off the blubber from eating it.:O


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## Gregmega (Apr 22, 2017)

In the end it's a competition show. It's not meant to showcase the finest work that they can do, that's what documentaries are for. It's meant to see who can put up the best work work with incredibly sharp odds and pull it off. From my experience on a 'competition show', it's not always the most talented person in the room that wins, but the one who can roll with punches, think on their feet, adapt and overcome. I do, however, think this show serves a bigger purpose in demystifying a really beautiful craft, no matter how hokey the tests may be. There's a bit of education in there beyond the 'reality'. I can dig that.


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## jessf (Apr 22, 2017)

I frequent Walter Sorrel's youtube channel. He was a contestant on the show and eliminated in the first round of testing. He did a post competition youtube video where he explained that although the show is edited for TV it is an honest competition amongst the bladesmiths, going so far as to have production staff follow you into the washroom to make sure you're not calling people for advice or checking your phone. It's the only cable TV show that will keep my attention. I do like that professional knife makers come on the show and fail. Like watching pro althletes losing to weekend warriors. Tells me the nature of the competition is meant to test things other than pure blade smithing where a lifetime of repetition might produce outstanding blades but narrows their ability to work outside that comfort zone.


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