# Your favourite gyuto under 300$



## JaVa (Oct 10, 2016)

Fellow forumites, I'm in need of your knowledge and experience.

No questionnaire here because this is not for what I'm looking for (sort of), It's more about what's perfect for you and WHY? I would like to hear which knives blow you away every time, the one that if you would get the chance to do it all over again you would get it in a heartbeat, the one that if you lost it you would get it again. You know which one I'm talking about. right?

This is a bit premature as I'm looking for any ideas for a knife I'll be getting next month so I'll have a chance to weigh all the options properly. The thing is my personal hit list is getting too short. I have two or three knives I still would like to get and I want to save them for later and I would like to find something fun and out of my comfort zone. Almost anything goes!

I don't want my personal preferences have any effect here. If it's something you like, but others may not, that's interesting to me. If it's something that's often recommended that's great too. The only request I have is that let's leave out the usual suspects like Takamura, Tanaka, Gesshin Ginga, -stainless, -Kagero, Itinomonn, Akifusa, etc.
I have some of them already. Plus just recently I got the Takamura R2 and Itinomonn stainLess is en route. (...finally! wuhuu! :bliss They're all great, but I'm looking for something from the left field maybe? ...Or maybe not? remains to be seen?

I appreciate any and all input from you guys and can't wait? :knife:


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## Badgertooth (Oct 10, 2016)

I won't recommend the Tanaka because I always bloody do. I tend to pipe in with Toyama a lot.. guilty. However, the one that's really blowing my hair back at the moment is a 270 Wakui gyuto. So incredibly thin behind the edge but not not flimsy at all.


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## Badgertooth (Oct 10, 2016)

You'll get change from $300


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 10, 2016)

Yoshikane SKD or Itinomonn (semistainless)/Wakui (trained under the former)


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## JaVa (Oct 10, 2016)

That Wakui looks oh so lovely. Although as the Itinomonn semi stainless is on it's way already and I believe them to be very very very similar so might too close to home. What steel is your Wakui? 

I'll definitely check out the Yoshikane. :thumbsup:


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## CB1968 (Oct 10, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> I won't recommend the Tanaka because I always bloody do. I tend to pipe in with Toyama a lot.. guilty. However, the one that's really blowing my hair back at the moment is a 270 Wakui gyuto. So incredibly thin behind the edge but not not flimsy at all.


Great shot mate


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## preizzo (Oct 10, 2016)

Masakage or Wakui, Yoshikane and yoshimitsu


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## panda (Oct 10, 2016)

masamoto ks because of profile
munetoshi because of food release and steel
toyama because of grind


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## Ruso (Oct 10, 2016)

Interesting thread, your favourite gyuto under $300, but lets leave the best contenders out?  Geeeze dunno, Kurosaki AS Chiku series is well worth the money.


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## Cashn (Oct 10, 2016)

$200-$300 is the price range I shoot for with my knives. I use heiji semi stainles (from BST, sub $300), shiro kamo r2, kochi stainless clad carbon, tanaka ginsan, kurosaki AS, and most recently an Itinomonn v2. All 270 gyuto's from K&S, JNS and JKI, i can recommend them all but the kochi ($310?) is the one that surprises me the most when I pull it out. Nice heft and a wicked thin tip, I did request a thicker one from Jon. Makes the knife seem more versatile to me while say the heiji is best for slicing motions. I do look for beefier knives btw, the Itinomonn is the thinnest one I have.


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## chinacats (Oct 10, 2016)

Kochi V2 Ku...if you want to keep it under 200, Tanaka


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## kevpenbanc (Oct 11, 2016)

Shiro Kamo R2 is amongst my current favourites, from all my knives.
Definately the best, by some distance under $300 that I have tried.


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## richard (Oct 11, 2016)

Shibata Kotetsu 240 mm gyuto if you like flat profiles and laser thin grind comparable to Takamura R2 (but want longer than 210 mm). Note actual length is around 230 mm, but it's so flat, there's lots of usable length.

Kramer Meiji 8" is also a knife I really like in this price range if you want a tall knife.


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## JaVa (Oct 11, 2016)

preizzo said:


> Masakage or Wakui, Yoshikane and yoshimitsu



Masakage: Which one and why. I've looked at them before, but haven't picked up traction, not sure why?
Wakui: Looks very interesting, the incoming Itinomonn stainLess is probably very similar to Wakui Hairline, but let's see when I get the Itinomonn. If not so, the wakui moves high on the list
Yoshikane: Is the front runner for now
Yoshimitsu: Which one and why?


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## JaVa (Oct 11, 2016)

panda said:


> masamoto ks because of profile
> munetoshi because of food release and steel
> toyama because of grind



Masamoto: Looks very interesting. In the top two for now.
Toyama and Munetoshi: Have been on the radar. Toyama is very tempting but out of budget for now. Probably kinda a lot of knife for my taste, but really want to try one. The Munetoshi I will probably come back to in the future, just not now.


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## JaVa (Oct 11, 2016)

Ruso said:


> Interesting thread, your favourite gyuto under $300, but lets leave the best contenders out?  Geeeze dunno, Kurosaki AS Chiku series is well worth the money.



Yep, It's because I'm looking for something different from what I have. :thumbsup: 

Kurosaki Chiku: It is interesting, but the R2 version even more so. It's one of the knives to get on my three knife list.


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## JaVa (Oct 11, 2016)

Cashn said:


> $200-$300 is the price range I shoot for with my knives. I use heiji semi stainles (from BST, sub $300), shiro kamo r2, kochi stainless clad carbon, tanaka ginsan, kurosaki AS, and most recently an Itinomonn v2. All 270 gyuto's from K&S, JNS and JKI, i can recommend them all but the kochi ($310?) is the one that surprises me the most when I pull it out. Nice heft and a wicked thin tip, I did request a thicker one from Jon. Makes the knife seem more versatile to me while say the heiji is best for slicing motions. I do look for beefier knives btw, the Itinomonn is the thinnest one I have.



Heiji: Not a fan of whats been talked about their grinds.
Shiro Kamo R2: Love his stuff. So much so I'll get a B2 sujihiki and I already have two gyutos. So looking for something else this time. Otherwise super tempted though.
Tanaka Ginsan: I wish, but they're not made any more. 
Kurosaki AS: I like the R2 version more.
Itinomonn V2: The stainLess is on it's way already.
Kochi: For some reason never been interested, but recently it's started to edge it's way into the conversation. Maybe at number three spot for the moment.


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## JaVa (Oct 11, 2016)

chinacats said:


> Kochi V2 Ku...if you want to keep it under 200, Tanaka



Kochi: Is starting to gain some traction.
Tanaka: I already have two and love them. Unbeatable value and who doesn't like that? There will be more for sure, jut not now.


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## JaVa (Oct 11, 2016)

kevpenbanc said:


> Shiro Kamo R2 is amongst my current favourites, from all my knives.
> Definately the best, by some distance under $300 that I have tried.



Kamo R2: One of my favourite makers. The R2 is probably in the cards eventually, but for now I'd like something different.


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## JaVa (Oct 11, 2016)

richard said:


> Shibata Kotetsu 240 mm gyuto if you like flat profiles and laser thin grind comparable to Takamura R2 (but want longer than 210 mm). Note actual length is around 230 mm, but it's so flat, there's lots of usable length.
> 
> Kramer Meiji 8" is also a knife I really like in this price range if you want a tall knife.



Shibata Kotetsu: I remember you recommending it to me somewhere before and I have to say It's started to creep up on me. Definitely is something different and a serious contender here.

Kramer: They're not for me and too short too.


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## Badgertooth (Oct 11, 2016)

JaVa said:


> What steel is your Wakui :thumbsup:



Sorry, completely missed this. White and nicely treated too.


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## preizzo (Oct 11, 2016)

Masakage I tried 3 line 
Koishi, Yuki, mizu all great knives. Koishi among the other for grind edge retention, it s cut like a dream. 

Yoshimitsu are simple, rustic and functional (blue n 2 line), full of character cut well and are very thin behind the edge.


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## JaVa (Oct 11, 2016)

Many thanks to everyones input here!!! :doublethumbsup:

I've been getting just what I hoped for. Really great!
If there's still some fun options left, I'm all ears.

Oh, and the knife will be a 240 gyuto. Slightly over budget is ok, but not a lot.
Thanks again!


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## cheflife15 (Oct 12, 2016)

Wakui/Konosuke


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## labor of love (Oct 12, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> I won't recommend the Tanaka because I always bloody do. I tend to pipe in with Toyama a lot.. guilty. However, the one that's really blowing my hair back at the moment is a 270 Wakui gyuto. So incredibly thin behind the edge but not not flimsy at all.



Is that a wakui Kasumi? Like the ones bernal carries? Man I miss mine!


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## Badgertooth (Oct 12, 2016)

The very same! Sort of Koishi, Kochi, Ittetsu thin behind the edge. Beaut of a knife for $210


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## labor of love (Oct 12, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> The very same! Sort of Koishi, Kochi, Ittetsu thin behind the edge. Beaut of a knife for $210



Yep. Owned em all. Liked that wakui and kochi the most. Ittetsu had a sweet profile though.


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## DanHumphrey (Oct 15, 2016)

Woof - $300 is a rough price point IMO. It gets you past the very nice and functional entry level (many of the ones you disqualified for being constantly recommended (which tend to max out ~200), but doesn't quite get to the nice custom maker stuff like Marko, Shi-Han, Dalman, etc. That's why I haven't been able to pull the trigger on the very nice Sukenari SG2s that James has.


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## daddy yo yo (Oct 15, 2016)

One of my all time favorites: Misono Swedish steel, aka Misono Dragon. Why? It is WAY under your budget, it is carbon, F&F are among the best ever seen. Ok, it comes with Western handle only but at least a good one. Steel and profile are also pretty nice! For me, fantastic knife for the money!


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## richard (Oct 15, 2016)

Since no one has mentioned it yet, Takamura Pro. The 240 mm is a tad over $300 but includes a saya.


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## alterwisser (Oct 15, 2016)

I think it really depends what kind of knife you're looking for. Allrounder i might go with the Kurosaki AS from K&S... laser Ashi/Gesshin Ginga (not sure that's available for that price though) or Ikazuchi from JKI (and use the change to buy a Petty)... workhorse ... I guess Toyama is a tad over even when subtracting VAT


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## JaVa (Oct 15, 2016)

DanHumphrey said:


> Woof - $300 is a rough price point IMO. It gets you past the very nice and functional entry level (many of the ones you disqualified for being constantly recommended (which tend to max out ~200), but doesn't quite get to the nice custom maker stuff like Marko, Shi-Han, Dalman, etc. That's why I haven't been able to pull the trigger on the very nice Sukenari SG2s that James has.



That was the whole point of this thread. I wanted to find something fun and exciting. Something I hadn't thought of myself so far, or something I might have dismissed at some point and maybe should look at again. And I wanted to see if there was something that flies under the radar that someone would have found but maybe wasn't getting recognized. 

That Sukenari R2 fits in this slot perfectly. I wasn't aware of them and I will have to take a closer look.


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## JaVa (Oct 15, 2016)

daddy yo yo said:


> One of my all time favorites: Misono Swedish steel, aka Misono Dragon. Why? It is WAY under your budget, it is carbon, F&F are among the best ever seen. Ok, it comes with Western handle only but at least a good one. Steel and profile are also pretty nice! For me, fantastic knife for the money!



Kinda weird to say this, but for this round it's a little too much under budget and I'll probably go with a wa handle.


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## JaVa (Oct 15, 2016)

richard said:


> Since no one has mentioned it yet, Takamura Pro. The 240 mm is a tad over $300 but includes a saya.



I think every chef looking for a western handled one and done better gyuto, this should be it. Even though I haven't used it. :lol2: But as this is the bigger, sturdier and more robust big brother to the my red handled Takamura R2, I can't imagine what could be much better for that. 

... although I'm not looking for another Takamura. :thumbsup:


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## y32dsm (Oct 15, 2016)

richard said:


> Since no one has mentioned it yet, Takamura Pro. The 240 mm is a tad over $300 but includes a saya.



I am with richard. I have one and it is versatile one. or kurosaki AS.


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## JaVa (Oct 15, 2016)

alterwisser said:


> I think it really depends what kind of knife you're looking for. Allrounder i might go with the Kurosaki AS from K&S... laser Ashi/Gesshin Ginga (not sure that's available for that price though) or Ikazuchi from JKI (and use the change to buy a Petty)... workhorse ... I guess Toyama is a tad over even when subtracting VAT



Looking at all the great choicee given I realised that the only three criteria are size: 240, handle: wa and price: 300 (could stretch a little, but not over 350). Everything else is wide open. Just what ever happens to pop up and peeks my interest the most workhorses, lasers, middleweights... all good!


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## JaVa (Oct 15, 2016)

I'm so happy I made this thread. It's been so much fun already and some very interesting contenders have been found for sure.

Yoshikane SKD is probably still the frontrunner.
Wakui is a very close second, but I'm still a little bit afraid it might be too similar with the Itinomonn stainLess I got just yesterday. 

Other strong contenders are (in no particular order) and any one of them could end up at the top.
Kochi, Masamoto KS, Shibata Kotetsu, Sukenari R2, Kurosaki Syousin Chiku. 

As you can see my choices are absolutely all over the place. :lol2:


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## Matus (Oct 15, 2016)

I have not used Yoshikane SKD gyuto, but I have 165 Hakata. The knife has flat, wide bevel knife that is not the thinnest out there, but has great food release. The SKD steel is run hard - you should use micro-bevel to keep micro-chipping at bay if you plat to chop with the knife (I do with the Hakata). But you will get incredible edge holding.

Kochi - again I do not have the gyuto, but the 180 k-tip santoku. Incredibly thin behind the edge - I really mean that. The grind of the bevel is slightly concave - that is part of the reason why it can be so thin, but I expect that even once the concave grind will turn flat after a few years, it will still be freaking thin.

Munetoshi - I am thoroughly enjoying this knife. Noe too high, neither too thin bevel (again, slightly concave) - it goes through food surprisingly well, even through carrots if you give the cut a little of slicing motion. This knife is a workhorse. I holds edge better than I would have expected from white steel. It has also rather flat profile - not everyone likes that, I do.

Konosuke - I had 2 in hand recently (just for a few minutes, really), but I was impressed by the grind and profile.


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## K813zra (Oct 15, 2016)

This is a hard call but I would say that most of the time my hand gravitates to my Masakage Yuki (210). I love the rounded shape of the choil as I find it both aesthetically and functionally pleasing. I like the looks of the finish as well and I enjoy White #2. My second choice, a close second, would be my Saji G3 but that is just barely under $300. It is simple with a rustic charm, has a nice handle and a good feel on the board and stones. It is also low maintenance. It is also a 210 so that will factor into the price.


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## kevpenbanc (Oct 15, 2016)

Another option may be one of these:

http://aframestokyo.com/masashi-kobo-wa-gyuto-damascus-240mm-sld-chef-kn240.html

I have one and like it a lot. 
It's SLD, mine runs to 250, a really really good cutter.
A tall knife with a slightly different profile, a long flatish area and a slightly aggressive curve towards the tip.
Only sharpened it once, was very, very easy to sharpen.


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## toddnmd (Oct 16, 2016)

y32dsm said:


> I am with richard. I have one and it is versatile one. or kurosaki AS.



Where is this for sale and in stock? Takamura Pro 240, that is.


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## JaVa (Oct 16, 2016)

toddnmd said:


> Where is this for sale and in stock? Takamura Pro 240, that is.



Wow, What happened? There's probably something like over ten vendors selling that line and just six months ago I could find it in stock at several vendors, but now it's out of stock everywhere??? 

Could Takamuras popularity finally started to get to the level they deserve or has their focus shifted more on the little cheaper VG10 lines that seemed to be popping up at some places?


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## DanHumphrey (Oct 16, 2016)

If you don't mind K-tip, there's the Shibata Kotetsu: http://www.chuboknives.com/products/shibata-kotetsu-sg2-gyutou-240mm-9-4#.WANfg-ArKCo

And I know you said no western handles, but the Kazan HAP40 is at least an interesting steel: http://www.chuboknives.com/products/kazan-hap40-hammered-gyutou-240mm-9-4#.WANfzuArKCo


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## spoiledbroth (Oct 16, 2016)

kevpenbanc said:


> Shiro Kamo R2 is amongst my current favourites, from all my knives.
> Definately the best, by some distance under $300 that I have tried.


Stop that you'll cause the price to jump before I get one :spankarse:


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## JaVa (Oct 17, 2016)

DanHumphrey said:


> If you don't mind K-tip, there's the Shibata Kotetsu: http://www.chuboknives.com/products/shibata-kotetsu-sg2-gyutou-240mm-9-4#.WANfg-ArKCo
> 
> And I know you said no western handles, but the Kazan HAP40 is at least an interesting steel: http://www.chuboknives.com/products/kazan-hap40-hammered-gyutou-240mm-9-4#.WANfzuArKCo



Shibata Kotetsu: Is definitely in the mix. It's different, exciting and looks like a fun knife. Just wished the tip were pointier.

Kazan HAP40: I have the Kohetsu HAP40 WA which is the same knife. No hammer finish and the WA is thinner and lighter. It's the worst knife I have. Even if I put aside all the manufacturing faults it had. The grind and geometry was all over the place. I hate the profile. The grind is something like 90/10, it steers noticeably, tip is clumsy, there's a shoulder two to three mm behind the edge on the right side and combined with a convex grind makes it wedge bad. At first I liked the thing because the initial cut feels good, but then it just goes to s***. The more I used it the worse it felt. 

I recommended it I think once when I got before I realised all the "extra features" and I never will again. The only positive take away was that now I know exactly what I don't like in a knife. It's a project knife now and time will tell if I'll ever get it in shape.


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## JaVa (Oct 17, 2016)

spoiledbroth said:


> Stop that you'll cause the price to jump before I get one :spankarse:



:lol2::lol2::lol2:


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## kevpenbanc (Oct 17, 2016)

spoiledbroth said:


> Stop that you'll cause the price to jump before I get one :spankarse:



:doublethumbsup::hungry:


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## DanHumphrey (Oct 17, 2016)

JaVa said:


> Shibata Kotetsu: Is definitely in the mix. It's different, exciting and looks like a fun knife. Just wished the tip were pointier.
> 
> Kazan HAP40: I have the Kohetsu HAP40 WA which is the same knife. No hammer finish and the WA is thinner and lighter. It's the worst knife I have. Even if I put aside all the manufacturing faults it had. The grind and geometry was all over the place. I hate the profile. The grind is something like 90/10, it steers noticeably, tip is clumsy, there's a shoulder two to three mm behind the edge on the right side and combined with a convex grind makes it wedge bad. At first I liked the thing because the initial cut feels good, but then it just goes to s***. The more I used it the worse it felt.
> 
> I recommended it I think once when I got before I realised all the "extra features" and I never will again. The only positive take away was that now I know exactly what I don't like in a knife. It's a project knife now and time will tell if I'll ever get it in shape.



Thanks for the heads up on the HAP40 - now it can be stricken from my list of potentially interesting toys.


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## JaVa (Oct 17, 2016)

DanHumphrey said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the HAP40 - now it can be stricken from my list of potentially interesting toys.



The steel has potential, just too bad everything around it ruins a good thing. It gets stupid sharp and has a nice bite. If only Gihei made a 240 gyuto, or some other known smith. That would be even better. On the other hand maybe there's a reason no ones making them?

It's possible that I just got a Monday version, but since I got no help from the vendor I'll never know. 

It seems all the makers are getting on the R2 bandwagon and for some reason the SRS15 and HAP40 steels are being left behind. It would be fun to know why that is? :scratchhead:


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## pkjames (Oct 17, 2016)

It is probably to do with takefu special steel looking after the bladesmith and the takefu guys are more productive so you see more r2 around.


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## JaVa (Oct 17, 2016)

pkjames said:


> It is probably to do with takefu special steel looking after the bladesmith and the takefu guys are more productive so you see more r2 around.



Very interesting, thanks! :thumbsup:

It certainly explains why R2 is so popular.
But still a little weird there isn't any bladesmiths using SRS15 and only one using HAP40? (at least with their own names?)


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## richard (Oct 17, 2016)

There is Akifusa using SRS15. Nothing bad to say against SRS15 (is it that different from R2?), but I like the R2 bandwagon and that there's so much to choose from in that steel


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## foody518 (Oct 17, 2016)

Man yeah if Gihei made longer knives I'd be excited to grab one


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## DanHumphrey (Oct 18, 2016)

JaVa said:


> It seems all the makers are getting on the R2 bandwagon and for some reason the SRS15 and HAP40 steels are being left behind. It would be fun to know why that is? :scratchhead:



Beyond what James said (and it makes sense that, if Takefu is good about getting lots of R2 out to smiths and being easy to work with, lots of them use it) in my use it seems to be a good combination of relatively easy and pleasant to sharpen, while also holding the edge well. And at a pretty good price. Just not much weakness to the steel, unless you really like carbon (and even I agree that carbon feels a bit better to sharpen).


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## BlueSteel (Oct 18, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> I won't recommend the Tanaka because I always bloody do. I tend to pipe in with Toyama a lot.. guilty. However, the one that's really blowing my hair back at the moment is a 270 Wakui gyuto. So incredibly thin behind the edge but not not flimsy at all.



Y'all have convinced me to order this knife (great photo!) At $228 USD, if the one I get is as good as the reports on this forum, this has to be one of the greatest deals in carbon J-knives out there. Looking forward to getting this and putting it through the paces!

Cheers,
Blair


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## Casaluz (Oct 19, 2016)

In no particular order, I particularly love (in that price range):
- Gesshin Kagero
- Aritsugu A type
- Masamoto KS


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## JaVa (Oct 19, 2016)

Anyone have choil shot of the Yoshikane SKD? That would help a lot.


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## Matus (Oct 19, 2016)

Not gyutos, but maybe this will help.

Left to right: Kochi 180 K-tip gyuto, Yoshikane Hakata 165 SKD, Carter 165 funayuki.


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## Badgertooth (Oct 19, 2016)

Matus said:


> Not gyutos, but maybe this will help.
> 
> Left to right: Kochi 180 K-tip gyuto, Yoshikane Hakata 165 SKD, Carter 165 funayuki.



I fricken love this photo


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## Matus (Oct 19, 2016)

I made a mistake though, the Kochi is a K-tip santoku, not gyuto.


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## JaVa (Oct 22, 2016)

Casaluz said:


> In no particular order, I particularly love (in that price range):
> - Gesshin Kagero
> - Aritsugu A type
> - Masamoto KS



Kagero: It is an interesting knife, but too short. I like the steel, but not what I'm looking for this time.
Aritsugu: Looks interesting, but I'm looking for a harder steel.
Masamoto KS: VERY interesting, though seems to be impossible to find anywhere.


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## JaVa (Oct 22, 2016)

Matus said:


> Not gyutos, but maybe this will help.
> 
> Left to right: Kochi 180 K-tip gyuto, Yoshikane Hakata 165 SKD, Carter 165 funayuki.



Helps a lot. :biggrin: 
Thanks Matus!


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## JaVa (Oct 22, 2016)

K813zra said:


> This is a hard call but I would say that most of the time my hand gravitates to my Masakage Yuki (210). I love the rounded shape of the choil as I find it both aesthetically and functionally pleasing. I like the looks of the finish as well and I enjoy White #2. My second choice, a close second, would be my Saji G3 but that is just barely under $300. It is simple with a rustic charm, has a nice handle and a good feel on the board and stones. It is also low maintenance. It is also a 210 so that will factor into the price.



Masakage Yuki: Nice knife, but maybe falls a little short against some others here.
Saji G3: I need to look a little closer.


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## JaVa (Oct 22, 2016)

Matus said:


> I have not used Yoshikane SKD gyuto, but I have 165 Hakata. The knife has flat, wide bevel knife that is not the thinnest out there, but has great food release. The SKD steel is run hard - you should use micro-bevel to keep micro-chipping at bay if you plat to chop with the knife (I do with the Hakata). But you will get incredible edge holding.
> 
> Kochi - again I do not have the gyuto, but the 180 k-tip santoku. Incredibly thin behind the edge - I really mean that. The grind of the bevel is slightly concave - that is part of the reason why it can be so thin, but I expect that even once the concave grind will turn flat after a few years, it will still be freaking thin.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tips! :thumbsup:

Don't know why, but the Konosuke thing has never caught my interest?


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## JaVa (Oct 22, 2016)

kevpenbanc said:


> Another option may be one of these:
> 
> http://aframestokyo.com/masashi-kobo-wa-gyuto-damascus-240mm-sld-chef-kn240.html
> 
> ...



Looks very intriguing, but OOS.


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## K813zra (Oct 22, 2016)

JaVa said:


> Masakage Yuki: Nice knife, but maybe falls a little short against some others here.
> Saji G3: I need to look a little closer.



Isn't that what is wonderful about personal preference. No matter how many gyutos I try I go back to my Yuki, it just feels good in hand. The choil shape plays a big role in this and is part of the reason I got the Saji as well. 

A note about the G3: It is a bit beefier throughout. A laser it is not.


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## JaVa (Oct 22, 2016)

K813zra said:


> Isn't that what is wonderful about personal preference. No matter how many gyutos I try I go back to my Yuki, it just feels good in hand. The choil shape plays a big role in this and is part of the reason I got the Saji as well.
> 
> A note about the G3: It is a bit beefier throughout. A laser it is not.



Yes it is! 

...and I did say: maybe... falls short?
...Or maybe it doesn't? There's no way for me to know for sure. 

Since I have no way of handling any of these, I'm just making some educated guesses based on pictures, reviews, specs and recommendations. From that I try to make the best guess. Luckily with so many good options it's hard to make a bad choice.


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## K813zra (Oct 22, 2016)

JaVa said:


> Yes it is!
> 
> ...and I did say: maybe... falls short?
> ...Or maybe it doesn't? There's no way for me to know for sure.
> ...



You are probably not wrong. I have heard the Yuki described as a great knife for its price point and a good knife overall but not something that most would put on their favorites list. It just resonates with me.

I feel your pain about making a choice in a sea of good knives. I am very indecisive and that makes it difficult for me when I want to try something new. Forums like these have helped me a lot though because there are a lot of nice folks on here willing to share their experiences.


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## labor of love (Oct 22, 2016)

BlueSteel said:


> Y'all have convinced me to order this knife (great photo!) At $228 USD, if the one I get is as good as the reports on this forum, this has to be one of the greatest deals in carbon J-knives out there. Looking forward to getting this and putting it through the paces!
> 
> Cheers,
> Blair


They're awesome. You won't regret that purchase. Imagine a mono steel laser (tad,ginga,kono,etc etc) but w better profile and better taper from spine to edge. Really thin tip also...don't let the price fool you this line kicks ass.


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## BlueSteel (Oct 23, 2016)

labor of love said:


> They're awesome. You won't regret that purchase. Imagine a mono steel laser (tad,ginga,kono,etc etc) but w better profile and better taper from spine to edge. Really thin tip also...don't let the price fool you this line kicks ass.



Fantastic! Thanks for your response. Can't wait to get this one in hand!

Cheers,
Blair


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## Matus (Oct 23, 2016)

You can find the Masamoto *here* (in UK)


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## JaVa (Oct 23, 2016)

labor of love said:


> They're awesome. You won't regret that purchase. Imagine a mono steel laser (tad,ginga,kono,etc etc) but w better profile and better taper from spine to edge. Really thin tip also...don't let the price fool you this line kicks ass.



Yeah, that Wakui has started to taunt me too. But I'm still afraid of it being too similar with the Itinomonn. Labor of love have you used the Itinomonn (either one, StainLess or V2)? Or has anyone else for that matter used both? I'd love to hear some opinions comparing the Wakui Kasumi/Hairline and Itinomon StainLess or V2?


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## toddnmd (Oct 23, 2016)

Matus said:


> You can find the Masamoto *here* (in UK)



if you want a 300mm gyuto . . .


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## JaVa (Oct 23, 2016)

toddnmd said:


> if you want a 300mm gyuto . . .



:laugh:
Yeah I did find that earlier, but it's a little bit oversized for a 240 gyuto.


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## preizzo (Oct 23, 2016)

I own both knives, I prefer the Wakui. The food release it s amazing.


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## JaVa (Oct 23, 2016)

preizzo said:


> I own both knives, I prefer the Wakui. The food release it s amazing.



Ok, Thanks a lot preizzo! 
Good to know. :thumbsup:

Could you please share about couple other things like edge retention, achieved sharpness and profile any differences with those features? Is the Wakui significantly thinner behind the edge or similar? Also which Itinomonn do you have? How is the reactivity on the Wakui W2 core steel? 

Since you prefer the Wakui, how is it over all? One of your favourites or something else?

I would really love to hear more, thanks!


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## preizzo (Oct 23, 2016)

I had a santoku and a nakiri Wakui, but I sold them because I am more a Gyuto guy, anyway they are great knives. 
I am using a 270 Wakui right now and as a decent edge retention,little reactivity (only on the cutting edge), spine it s rounded and the kurouchi finish it s amazing.. 
The handle needs to be changed, not my taste. 

Ittinomonn it s a nice knife also, thin and very agile true the ingredients even if it s very tall (have the kurouchi version), mine is 57mm.
Very reactive, but after you set down a patina it stay like that! 
Only thing I don't like was to sharpen it, the v2 doesn't fell right for me. 

Conclusion 
Both knives are good cutters, but if you work in a pro kitchen I will go for the Wakui because you don't need to clean the blade so often and because of the food relaise. Ittinomonn as a wide flat bevel so food get stuck to the blade. 
&#128522;


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## JaVa (Oct 23, 2016)

Nice, Thanks! 

Al thought I should have specified, was more referring to the Kasumi/Hairline knives on both the Itinomonn and Wakui. But I still got good answers for some things I was wondering about, like how the V2 is over (reactivity, how it sharpens etc.) and about the W2 also.

Much appreciated!!! :doublethumbsup:


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## Matus (Oct 23, 2016)

toddnmd said:


> if you want a 300mm gyuto . . .



It might be worth to drop them an email and ask ...


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## JaVa (Oct 24, 2016)

Matus said:


> It might be worth to drop them an email and ask ...



Very true.


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## malexthekid (Oct 25, 2016)

JaVa said:


> Kagero: It is an interesting knife, but too short. I like the steel, but not what I'm looking for this time.
> Aritsugu: Looks interesting, but I'm looking for a harder steel.
> Masamoto KS: VERY interesting, though seems to be impossible to find anywhere.



Can I ask why you think the Artisugu is not hard enough? I have one amd love it. Has heaps of edge retention... A tad on the thicker side than a ginga, and i understand when they were on vogue people would thin them and say they are awesome wheb thinned, but that it is definitely some work with the steel.

Overall great knife. It does has quite an asymmetrical grind, 90/10 i would have a guess at.


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## JaVa (Oct 25, 2016)

Well, what I can find is that the Aritsugu A Style hardness is in the 60 HRC region. That's absolutely fine, but for this time I'd like the hardness to be somewhere around 63-65 HRC. 

Like I said it does look interesting (in a nice price point as well), but for this trip, there are others that are tickling my brain a little more. That's all.


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## malexthekid (Oct 25, 2016)

JaVa said:


> Well, what I can find is that the Aritsugu A Style hardness is in the 60 HRC region. That's absolutely fine, but for this time I'd like the hardness to be somewhere around 63-65 HRC.
> 
> Like I said it does look interesting (in a nice price point as well), but for this trip, there are others that are tickling my brain a little more. That's all.



Cool was just curious and just wanted to make sure you didn't discount the knife purely based on a number that I don't think quite reflects what the steel is... or at least i think you need to look at steel in combination with hrc.


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## Matus (Oct 25, 2016)

Steel in combination with HRC is definitely a good idea - in particular with stainless steels. For example - Niolox is usually not treated past HRC61 because the edge does not last longer, just get more brittle.


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## malexthekid (Oct 25, 2016)

Matus said:


> Steel in combination with HRC is definitely a good idea - in particular with stainless steels. For example - Niolox is usually not treated past HRC61 because the edge does not last longer, just get more brittle.



Yet my understanding is that niolox still holds a great edge... which was my point. One can't forget that all your hrc is telling you is literally that. How hard the knife is... what can scratch it essentially. Yes higher hardness does tend to relate to other things but it must be viewed with what the steel is as well.


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## Matus (Oct 25, 2016)

Exactly. Also - I would also expect that the properties will depend on how that given HRC was achieved during HT. For example - carbon steel like O1 may be treated with or without cryo. I would expect different properties even if the HRC would be the same ...

(sorry for a short off topic rant, JaVa  )


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## malexthekid (Oct 25, 2016)

Yes back to our scheduled topic... i don't know if this has been said but checking out Jame's website (knives and stones) i think he should have a few interesting choices in that prive range, beyond just the Tanaka that always gets mentioned.


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## foody518 (Oct 25, 2016)

HRC has to do with impact and not scratch resistance I thought?


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## JaVa (Oct 26, 2016)

malexthekid said:


> Yet my understanding is that niolox still holds a great edge... which was my point. One can't forget that all your hrc is telling you is literally that. How hard the knife is... what can scratch it essentially. Yes higher hardness does tend to relate to other things but it must be viewed with what the steel is as well.



I couldn't agree more. I always look at the steel and hardness together. I would add to that the maker just to be sure that the steel is treated right too.


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## JaVa (Oct 26, 2016)

Matus said:


> Exactly. Also - I would also expect that the properties will depend on how that given HRC was achieved during HT. For example - carbon steel like O1 may be treated with or without cryo. I would expect different properties even if the HRC would be the same ...
> 
> (sorry for a short off topic rant, JaVa  )



No worries! interesting discussions are always welcome.  

And to why I like for this knife to be on the harder side? One important property to me is feel. I just like how a harder steel feels cutting different produce and also how it feels on the cutting board. I have several knives from around 60 to 65 HRC and really like them all (one exception though), but this time around would like to ad to the harder side of the spectrum.


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## JaVa (Oct 26, 2016)

I would also like to add to the hardness/edge retention discussion one professional point of view. When we talk about the different steels and knives and how they compare in edge retention, what in a home environment stretches out to several weeks or even months, in a pro kitchen can be reduced hours and/or days.


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## Matus (Oct 26, 2016)

Absolutely. I am just a home cook, but I know a guy who took knives out of rotation, because they would not last the shift (I do not wonder with his cutting style, though  ) I mean - HRC63 D2 blade lasted him 4 or 5 days. That would last me 2-3 months (and I keep finer edge than he does)


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## malexthekid (Oct 26, 2016)

JaVa said:


> I would also like to add to the hardness/edge retention discussion one professional point of view. When we talk about the different steels and knives and how they compare in edge retention, what in a home environment stretches out to several weeks or even months, in a pro kitchen can be reduced hours and/or days.



Of course and my comment was just stating that HRC alone isn't the best reflection of that... the aritsugu is a good example of that. In my uses as a home cook? Probably using for 2ish meals a week on average, after 6 months the edge is still slicing tomatos relatively easily without any form of stropping.

Now whether the quoted HRC is just wrong who knows.

Not trying to talk you out of anything.. was just trying to see if it was a specific need that was driving the push to high HRC. If you just want high HRC because in your experience you like high HRC as they feel better to you thats all good.


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## supersayan3 (Nov 1, 2016)

JaVa said:


> Wow, What happened? There's probably something like over ten vendors selling that line and just six months ago I could find it in stock at several vendors, but now it's out of stock everywhere???
> 
> Could Takamuras popularity finally started to get to the level they deserve or has their focus shifted more on the little cheaper VG10 lines that seemed to be popping up at some places?



Irrelevant...but this post mad me think of older threads comparing Ryusen and Takamura. This post made me realize that inside Japan, Ryusen must be considered better than Takamura, since they stopped exporting because they couldn't cover the demands on Japanese market, so I suppose Takamura took the overseas market.

When I got my last Blazen, the gyuto 21cm, I got it through Korin France, I got lucky, because exports had already stopped, but someone from the shop happened to be in Japan and fixed me.
I tried to order and some Blazen stones, but no luck.
By the way, Dominique, owner of Korin France, had been a very nice person to deal with. I had gotten my 24cm gyuto from them as well

I don't support that the one is better than the other, since the original Blazen was co created by both of them. They both own the secrets of the Blazen.
I like the triad logo on Takamura better, but I like the magnetic saya on Ryusen better.
Too bad the name Blazen was dropped, very inspiring, blaze + zen


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## Matus (Nov 2, 2016)

I always found the name 'Blazen' very funny, because it means 'fool' in Czech language (which I speak and undestant very well)


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## JaVa (Nov 2, 2016)

Matus said:


> I always found the name 'Blazen' very funny, because it means 'fool' in Czech language (which I speak and undestant very well)



Well, I think it's very fitting since you have to be a complete Blazen if you don't like a Blazen. :tease:


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## Matus (Nov 2, 2016)

I have just their 110 R2 parer and it is just onthe way to Dave for some cool handle. That is how much I like mine


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## JaVa (Nov 2, 2016)

Unfortunately I don't own one so maybe I'm a Blazen, but maybe having the Takamura R2 is enough to get me out of that category? :scratchhead:


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## supersayan3 (Nov 2, 2016)

Hahahaaa


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## BlueSteel (Nov 3, 2016)

Received the Wakui 270 (actually 276mm straight line from heel to tip) yesterday and used it on dinner last night. What a diamond in the rough! This blade is really impressive, and stunning for the price. Threw carrots, peppers, avocado, tomato...bunch of veg at it, and it cut soooo well. No wedging. (I had Bernal sharpen before shipping...it was tomato-ready when it arrived!)

The edge profile is interesting - not much of a flat spot at all...sweeping gentle curve from the heel to the very thin and sharp tip. I guess that would make it a real nice rocker, but I was mostly push cutting last night with great results. Came out of the box with a shiny edge and within an hour of chopping had already acquired significant patina on the edge...very reactive (white #2)!

At $228 USD this is an outright steal. 

But the handle...lol. What can I say? I wanted the stock octagonal handle because (a) I'm a lefty, and (b) I did not want to pay the upcharge for the right-handed D-shaped handle offered by the retailer. So the stock handle is a very large (bigger than any other handle on any knife I own) octagonal ho (magnolia) handle with a nice horn ferrule. The wood is kind of bad from an aesthetic perspective (my opinion...yours may differ). The size I like (I have big hands). But that wood looked ash grey right out of the box. I strongly suspect, based on the superb quality of this blade, that this one will be getting a handle upgrade soon. The ferrule is quite nice. But the join between the wood and the horn is not as smooth as one might like...you can feel the "lip" the whole way around...not that much, but it is there.

I want to thank everyone on KKF who recommended this knife. I never would have known about it otherwise. I think it is a real gem!

Cheers,
Blair


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## labor of love (Nov 3, 2016)

Sounds like your handle was sub par, mine wasn't-guess I was lucky.



BlueSteel said:


> Received the Wakui 270 (actually 276mm straight line from heel to tip) yesterday and used it on dinner last night. What a diamond in the rough! This blade is really impressive, and stunning for the price. Threw carrots, peppers, avocado, tomato...bunch of veg at it, and it cut soooo well. No wedging. (I had Bernal sharpen before shipping...it was tomato-ready when it arrived!)
> 
> The edge profile is interesting - not much of a flat spot at all...sweeping gentle curve from the heel to the very thin and sharp tip. I guess that would make it a real nice rocker, but I was mostly push cutting last night with great results. Came out of the box with a shiny edge and within an hour of chopping had already acquired significant patina on the edge...very reactive (white #2)!
> 
> ...


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## Badgertooth (Nov 3, 2016)

Mine had burn in marks on the blade. Not a show-stopper, just a bit of personality


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## BlueSteel (Nov 3, 2016)

labor of love said:


> Sounds like your handle was sub par, mine wasn't-guess I was lucky.



I would say the handle is aesthetically sub par for my taste (and I tend to prefer dark wood handles, but I knew I was not getting one on this), but functionally quite good for me, mostly because I have bigger hands. The join of the wood and horn is a minor F&F issue that is really only noticable in comparison to some of the beautifully smooth stock ones I have on my Takeda, Shibata Kotetsu, and even Masakage Kumo line.

I certainly don't mean to nitpick this knife too much - I really think it is a gem of a performer and also a great value! I have zero disappointment, and I highly recommend the knife to others!!!

Cheers,
Blair


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## JaVa (Nov 7, 2016)

Time to wrap this up, at least for now.

what I got from this thread was just what I hoped for. Many new very interesting prospects to be added to my hit list of future acquisitions. Some I wrongly discounted earlier and some I hadn't even thought about before.

In no particular order: Shibata Kotetsu, Wakui Kasumi, Yoshikane SKD, Sukenari SG2, Masamoto KS are all in that group.

So what did I get? 
Well James came along and mixed things up with the new Tanaka offerings and I just had to get the Ginsan Migaki. I've been looking for one for about a year and I had mostly given up hope. And now it seems even better then before and I actually was able to get one. Lucky me!

...But since I was already buying from K&S and regardless that my budget was hurt by the Tanaka, I thought why not get the Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminigashi R2 in the same shipment. It was the whole time in a serious contender anyway. Because the Tanaka purchase drained some of that budget the Syousin Suminigashis lower price was easier to swallow. 

...and then in a momentary laps of reason, I threw in a Tanaka VG10 damascus petty for good measure. Which kinda killed the whole budget reasoning for good. :lol2: 

Thanks for everyones help and suggestions! It was all very much appreciated! :thankyou333:

...So what did I get from this thread again?
The short answer would've been: Suoysin Suminigashi R2 240 gyuto


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## Badgertooth (Nov 7, 2016)

#enablers


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## Nemo (Nov 7, 2016)

JaVa said:


> So what did I get?
> Well James came along and mixed things up with the new Tanaka offerings and I just had to get the Ginsan Migaki.
> 
> ...So what did I get from this thread again?
> The short answer would've been: Suoysin Suminigashi R2 240 gyuto



JaVa, I'm keen to hear what you think of both of thes knives when they arrive.


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## DanHumphrey (Nov 7, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> #enablers



I'm going to be so very proud if that takes off.

I mean, I have two more knives on the way myself. So there's that.


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