# Stainless steel knife vs Blue Steel?



## Davidl (Apr 13, 2015)

Im debating over getting a new blue steel knife , currently I have a 154cm stainless knife that I like - RC60. 


The knife Im searching for would be japanese RC64-65 Blue steel. Without looking into the stain resistance, would blue steel with a hardness that is 5 RC higher than stainless, make it technically (if heat treated optimally) able to create a sharper edge than 154cm RC60. When I think Japanese I think of high quality, highest possible sharpness in a knife. Are Japanese carbon steels really superior to stainless, seeing as a lot of Japanese chef knives are in white or blue steels despite the rust/patina proof of a stainless steel knife in the kitchen.

In short: Japanese blue steel RC 64-65 vs 154CM RC 60. Both created optimally. 

Which would be more likely to hold a 

Sharper edge
Sharper edge longer - less sharpening
Thinner edge


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## KimBronnum (Apr 13, 2015)

Blue steel holds the sharpest edge longest. It can be much thinner and hold the edge compared to stainLess. Therefore the knife can be ground differently - thinner behind the edge. This affects the knife's performance more that the sharpness of the very edge. So blue steel should win on both accounts, given that the steel is handled properly. 
- Kim


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## Davidl (Apr 13, 2015)

great!

Next knife will be Blue steel. Maybe super blue steel. 

Does the difference in hardness 60 compare to 65 RC make the blade that extra bit sharper? More of a curiosity than anything..


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## chinacats (Apr 13, 2015)

Curious if it may be blue 1 rather than blue 2 as most often that would be the steel that got the higher hrc


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## tcmx3 (Apr 13, 2015)

so much more than HRC goes into sharpness.

do you have a cutting board that wont damage a knife that hard? can you sharpen to 5-10 dps? can you thin that knife?


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## Davidl (Apr 13, 2015)

Chinacats - I havent choosen a particular knife yet something in blue #1 or super blue (better than blue I am assuming). Interesting to hear that #1 can get a higher HRC than #2.

Redisburning - I haven't thought about the cutting board. Will a regular plastic cutting board do? What do you suggest? 

I guess the end results of the steel structure plus edge geometry, degrees of the edge is what counts.


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## banjo1071 (Apr 14, 2015)

Please take note: HRC has nothing to do with sharpness . Its just a measure for hardness. And has also be viewed very carefully, when talking about the sharpability. Anyone could harden a VG10-Knife to HRC 66. But will it be sharp? No, because it will crumble like toast on the slightest opportunity. Also: a steel, that ist hardened very hard will be much harder so sharpen. What good is a theoretical sharpness, if you cant reach it?

I know you american guys love your numbers and specifications, but it ist not just that simple!

Now let the bashing beginn...

To answer you question: sharpness is one thing, ability to cut another. I personally would alway opt for Aogami, but your negleting one bid advantage of stainless knives here: they are stainless. Or in other words, if you leave your supersharp bluesteel-knife in the sink, it will rust and you microedge will be gone in no time. Take that in account.
Greets Benjamin

P.S. please excuse my crappy english...
P.P.S. Its not blue steel. Its not blue and will never be. Its "blue paper"-steel, because it wrapped in blue paper if you buy it from Hitachi. I know, i should not have written thsi, but a could not resist


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## AllanP (Apr 14, 2015)

I don't think your understanding of knives is very complete

it's not a linear: the Higher HRC=better steel=sharper knife

someone with more knowledge will explain more to you.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 14, 2015)

Hi Davidl, if a well ground, hard knife is what you are looking for, i would suggest shooting an e-mail to Ivan at Tosho Knife Arts, i particularly liked this one https://toshoknifearts.com/shop/kni...uchi-tsuchime-gyuto-240-mm-rosewood-octagonal , which is out of stock. I found it particularly good to dice onions.
Having said that, if i were you, i would buy a nice end grain board to go with this kind of knife. Besides that, do you sharpen your knives? Do you need help in that area? I'm just a beginner also, but there are a lot of people here more experienced than i that could help you in that area if you ask.
Good luck in your quest!


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## chinacats (Apr 14, 2015)

David, I believe Banjo (Benjamin) summed it up perfectly...meaning that I wouldn't put too much into steel or steel types when starting out...much more important will be figuring out what profile suits you best, then learn about geometry to figure out what style knife you like, weight, etc...

Blue (paper) steel is fantastic in the right hands and would make a fine choice (as would many other carbon steels that I enjoy just as much), but again at this point do you require stainless or are your habits those that would not ruin a carbon blade.

Buying a highly hardened blade will not be the best starter blade...can be chippy depending on your cutting style, can be more difficult to sharpen, etc...maybe you should fill out the "which knife to buy questionnaire"?


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## Davidl (Apr 14, 2015)

I will keep your suggestions in mind. The knife I do have is a 154cm steel and it works well. Im looking for something thats an improvement. 

Others recommended m4 steel, and above that is k390 at rc 65-67. Blue steel is comparable in a different way? 

The two things I do know is that Im looking for a chisel grind and a suitable steel to put a keen edge and long edge life. I wouldn't mind carbon steel and if the edge last a reasonable amount of time with fast sharpening speeds thats okay too.


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## XooMG (Apr 14, 2015)

:slaphead: I'd love to help, but I think there are a few too many presumptions to tackle.


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## XooMG (Apr 14, 2015)

OK maybe I'll try anyway.

Davidl: what is your intended use of the knife? Are you planning to take it out and use it for cutting cardboard or wire? Are you expecting to encounter a lot of hard abrasive materials? For the most part, food isn't extraordinarily abrasive, and neither are most boards. What benefit do you think ultrahard carbides in the steel will give you when cutting food? Do you think secondary carbides will protect the edge against deformation or fatigue?

You are presuming far too much about properties of steel. You're reaching for blind recommendations but you do not understand how any of these steels work or how their microstructure will behave under various treatments. You are treating steels like a linear progression, which another user wisely warned you to avoid.

There is a lot of ignorance floating around, but everyone seems very happy to give recommendations. Personally, I suggest you give serious consideration to your desired goals ("better than 154cm @ rc60" is not a real goal), and consider what properties will help you achieve your goals. There will be various carbon steels, stainless steels, substainless alloy steels, PM steels, etc. that might be applicable. Hardness is not necessarily a measure of quality or suitability, so don't take that as a primary consideration.

Reading forums may tell you that you need M4 when O1 from a certain person would better match your intended applications...or perhaps someone will push you to White Paper steel when something like HAP40 might be up your alley.

And you want "chisel grind"? Why? Did someone tell you it would cut more easily or take a sharper edge? Do you know how such a geometry will behave? And are you talking about a "chisel grind" or a Japanese single-bevel shape, which is quite different? Do you know how to use those? Who is going to make it for you, and how much knowledge do they have of kitchen knife applications?

There are a lot of questions in this post because it seems you have not asked yourself any relevant questions. You seem to be jumping to conclusions based no knowledge and only the most superficial pseudo-research.

So start with your goals. Is this a kitchen knife, or a box cutter, or an EDC pocket knife? What are you planning to cut? Will it be in an environment that requires stain/rust resistance? Do you want it to be easily sharpened? Do you have a specific knifemaker in mind?


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (Apr 14, 2015)

XooMG, until your post I was reading this as asking about kitchen knives, but it makes a lot more sense now. OP might not even be talking about kitchen knives. Is this a hunting knife? Pocket knife?


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## Davidl (Apr 15, 2015)

Yes, there needs to be more clarifications.

At the end of the day I will be going for one that is recommended or proven steel. I believe it is one of those things things where no matter how much research the end result may not be perfect, not to say research should be avoided. I believe k390 steel at high rc, blue steel or m4 when heat treated optimally would make for a good knife.

It will be a knife for cutting leather, upholstery type. Kiridashi style knife and a large thin chisel style knife. In blue steel kiridashi and chisel knifes are available under 60 dollars. k390 rc 67 kiridashi style i have been quoted for 100 dollars, no Ura on the back. 

My routine starts by touch up the knife on the finest sharpening stone, and strop regularly. My thinking is a k390 can last roughly 100 exacto knife cuts in medium thick leather without stropping (or last longer without stropping).


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## chinacats (Apr 15, 2015)

Davidl said:


> Yes, there needs to be more clarifications.
> 
> At the end of the day I will because going for one that is recommended or proven steel. I believe it is one of those things things where no matter how much research the end result may not be perfect, not to say research should be avoided. I believe k390 steel at high rc, blue steel or m4 when heat treated optimally would make for a good knife.
> 
> ...



It most likely would've helped to mention thisn in the first place as this is a "kitchen" knife forum.

The last time I cut leather was when I was learning to strop my razor and I don't believe the steel type mattered one bit.


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (Apr 15, 2015)

Uh well for leather, you know there's vegetable tanned leather or chrome tanned. The chrome tanning process uses some corrosive chemicals, acids, salts, etc. It would affect carbon steel more than stainless. Maybe you want something less reactive for this type of thing. Stainless or a semi stainless tool steel?


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## Davidl (Apr 15, 2015)

I should of stated the knife will be used for leather.. I didnt think it would make a difference, but thinking about it now kitchen knives don't usually see too much hard objects. 

The knife will only touch 1-2 mm of leather. Quite a few leather knives I see are made in carbon steel, a few in super blue, blue and white steels. 
Stainless or semi maybe could be an improvement if the leather chrome chemicals effect the cutting edge.


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## osakajoe (Apr 16, 2015)

If you're looking for a long edge retention go with a R2 powder steel knife


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## BloodrootLS (Apr 18, 2015)

Davidl, 

I used to cut a lot of leather when we made our own sheaths and I would make the knives that I would use for that application. I wouldn't worry about the salts and acids too much as it's more a problem of storing a knife with those leathers than cutting them in my experience (and I have experienced corrosive leathers and noncorrosive leathers within both veg-tan and oil-tan types so any comments about the differences between them in this respect are broad generalization, like stainless vs carbon steel). Wear resistance and toughness are both important considerations with leather cutting by hand in particular and for both of these things I would think the 154cm would be a great steel for the application. For all real intents and purposes for this application both steels can get much sharper than you will need- far past easy shaving. Both would be good, but I personally use quite a bit of force when cutting thick leather on a plastic or wood surface and the high hardness of the blue steel example you mention may be a bit of a liability for this type of tool. 

My 2 cents

~Luke


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