# what's the last stone you use on your progression?



## karloevaristo (Jan 1, 2015)

what's stone do you use to finish your edge?
home or pro cook? (if pro, what do you think is the perfect/best grit for professional kitchens?)
how long does your edge last you?
do you use a honing steel? if no, why not?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jan 1, 2015)

karloevaristo said:


> what's stone do you use to finish your edge?



Depends on the knife. I use the JKI 6000 diamond stone for gyutos and other knives that I want to leave a slight "toothy" edge on. For knives that won't be in constant contact with a board (paring knives, yanagibas) I will sometimes finish with a J-Nat.



> home or pro cook? (if pro, what do you think is the perfect/best grit for professional kitchens?)



Home.



> how long does your edge last you?



Several weeks.



> do you use a honing steel? if no, why not?



If I need a touch up and don't have time to get out the stones, I use a sintered ruby "steel" from New West Knifeworks.


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## Asteger (Jan 1, 2015)

Home user, former non long-term pro I guess. I like naturals so I don't know if this is useful to you in particular. There are several, but what I usually use will probably finish at or before 5k. (Only recently tried to 'measure' this and there's no way to know exactly.) I think beyond this it's usually a bit much, and nice mostly for looks or for fun & experimentation. Edges last ... hard to say, maybe up to several months. But too often I sharpen for fun/to compare stones. No, no honing rod. Don't have one and it's easier form me to just grab a stone, drop some water on it, and give a knife a good stroke; plus, it's way more controlled for me than a rod.


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## psfred (Jan 1, 2015)

Home cook.

Soft stainless (440C Chicago Cutlery, Victorinox, etc) stop with a synthetic blue aoto. 52100, VG-10, etc, I take all the way up to Kitayama. All of them get finished with a light stropping with chromium oxide on wood. 

The Chicago Cutlery edges last a month or more in average home use (three or four times a week for a meal or two, not really heavy use) before I feel they need some work. I use a plain steel on those as it seems to help maintain the edge, just a few very light passes to straighten out the edge, no metal removal. I usually start with a 1200 grit stone with those mainly because they had been beaten half to death before I got them. A couple more sharpenings and I will try stropping on a fine grit stone dry to see if that revives the edge rather than a full sharpening, but I suspect I will have to start at 1200 most of the time with them, they simply are not hard enough to hold a fine edge very long.

My Tojiro and Korean gyutos have only been properly sharpened once and twice respectively since I got them. I was checking on the progress of my pecans by cutting them in half with the Korean knife and put a few tiny chips in the edge after they got a fully woody shell because I couldn't find my pruning shears. Other than the chips from pretty severe abuse, I'd not have had to sharpen it either.

Both VG-10 and the spring steel (or railway iron) used in those latter knives will take a very fine edge at steep angles (12 degrees per side or less) and hold it fairly well. The other steels not so much.

Peter


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 1, 2015)

Peter, Consider JKS Takenono its a brilliant stone for kitchen knifes. About 90% of the time it gets used as a dry strop for reviving that scary edge but it works well as a finishing stone wet too. It's really the only stone needed in the kitchen, for me anyway. 

I'm moving to an all splash and go set up and I'm waiting for jon's diamond stone set to arrive.


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## Matus (Jan 1, 2015)

Gesshin 6000 seems to be fine finishing stone - good balance of fine edge and toothyness. I am a home cook. My edges last between 2 weeks and several months what is a convolution of steel, geometry, type of use and how often the knife is used. So far the best edge holding has my Masakage choice bunka (AS) and Yoshikane SKD petty. Shortest edge holding is probably on my white#1 Carter as it has very thin edge and sees quite some chopping. Many of my knives see less use so the edge holding is hard to quantify.


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## johnstoc (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm a home cook, sharpen a variety of mid to high end stainless (forschner, Mac Pro, Gesshin Gonbei and Ginga, vg-10 Tanaka) and some carbon on a Woodstock SteelX 6000 which I believe is made by King. I've been happy with the results but its my first finishing stone. I feel that my edges are not limited by this stone. Mostly sharpen gyotos, petty, nakiri, and some pocket knives. I like a pretty refined, yet not overly polished edge.

I'm interested in this as I'm on the hunt for my next finishing stone. Currently looking at a Gesshin 6000 or 6000s.


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## James (Jan 1, 2015)

Home cook here too. I finish my knives on the takenoko 6k; my edges usually last a few months with occasional stropping on either diamond loaded felt or the takenoko.


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## mkriggen (Jan 2, 2015)

Depending on the edge I want, I'll finish on a Gesshin 4000 or a Kitayama 8000. After having used it for about 6 months now, I think I should have listened to Dave M's advice (usually a good idea) about using the Kitayama after a more conventional 8000 or 10000 stone. I'll probably pick up a Gesshin 8000 in the next couple weeks. I sharpen at a moderately low angle, I'm guessing it's around 10 or 12 degrees a side. In a home kitchen my edges last a couple of months (except for the Miyabi in ZDP-189, it'll go 6months easy). I use a smooth ceramic rod from knifewear, but only for a couple of super light strokes per side.

Be well,
Mikey


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## Geo87 (Jan 2, 2015)

Pro here. Sharpening a variety of carbons and one or two swedish stainless.
Gyutos: all get finished on a 5k naniwa ss
Sujihiki: 3k naniwa ss. 
Petty: 5k 
A few cheap beaters and butchers knives all finished on 1k then lightly stropped on 400. 

Gyutos get hammered into boards all day long taking a solid beating. I strop most knives daily just a few passes on a 3k or 5k to refresh the edge. 
Edges last anywhere from 2 weeks to a month between sharpening sessions. The harder carbons can sometimes last 2 months if it's off season 

I don't find I need a ceramic rod if I strop everyday at the start of shift the edges last the shift.


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## chinacats (Jan 2, 2015)

Home user here.

Synthetic is Gesshin 5k which is splash and go--edge is refined yet toothy. Very fast stone imo.

Transitioning to naturals now though and finishing on Takashima which is also very quick.


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## chinacats (Jan 2, 2015)

Too late to edit, but don't use a steel (except on my Sabs) and instead strop on a finisher--or diamond loaded felt if I don't have the gumption to break out a stone


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## Jpox (Jan 6, 2015)

For me it's a choice between a soft JNS red aoto or Ohira (uchigomori layer so a bit muddy and soft much like a hakka). Last thing I do is stropping on bare leather. For touch-ups I use the bare leather and if needed a bit more the aoto. The aoto makes the edge bite again - specially on a thin behind the edge knife. I could probably use the Ohira as well I just haven't done so


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## designdog (Jan 6, 2015)

I am a home cook with some training. Knives are carbon and stones, with one or two exceptions, are naturals. While somewhat new to this forum, I have been hanging out on the others since 2008 when I first got into Japanese knives. Anyway, my last stone is either a Nakayama suita or a Shobu. I am fully aware that earlier stones in my progression, Aoto, Takashima, would give me a good edge with some bite to it, but I prefer those that are razor sharp, for clean separation. Always finish with a strop. Never use a honing rod.

A confession: my wife, no cook, won't even look at my knives. For her random efforts in the kitchen I have several MAC knives, which I sharpen on one of those expensive ChefsChoice sharpeners. Does a pretty good job for SS, and I don't care if it wears too much, as I only have to sharpen them once a year. Fine knives for cutting squash or trimming the occasional flower stems (I have a deba.):eek2:


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## Benuser (Jan 6, 2015)

Home cook here. Mostly carbons, both hard Japanese and soft vintages. Was always a bit sceptical about high grits until I discovered the Naniwa Snow-white 8k. Use it at least for deburring, sometimes for full sharpening and always for touching up. Leaves a lot of bite. Hard, fast and still with a great feedback.


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## Chuckles (Jan 7, 2015)

Pro user here. I usually finish at 2K or Red Aoto. Lately stropping has been on a legal pad or cardboard. 

I recently got a 6K stone and am not yet sure if it makes my knives any more productive when used as a finisher. Good for touch ups though. 

My Marko Gyuto in A2 has only seen a green brick or make shift strop since I got it and never for more than a minute and a half. It is still cutting very well. I would guess that is somewhere in the six or seven month range. Shigefusa maybe two or three weeks.


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## Asteger (Jan 7, 2015)

Chuckles said:


> Pro user here. I usually finish at 2K or Red Aoto. Lately stropping has been on a legal pad or cardboard.
> 
> I recently got a 6K stone and am not yet sure if it makes my knives any more productive when used as a finisher. Good for touch ups though.



I'm wondering to what extent pros tend to think this way - the low-1000s work best, say 2k or 3k - while at home people like to go finer.


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## BeerChef (Jan 8, 2015)

Pro here, tend to take my gyutos and pettys to a 5k some stropped some not. Single bevels go to 8k.


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## preizzo (Jan 8, 2015)

Natural stone 10k-20k
It s hard to measure the grit..
Start with 400 then 1200 ,3000 ,6000 ,10000 naniwa and the natural stone .The last process it will be strop the blade with leather and the knife it ix ready to cut !


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## karloevaristo (Jan 8, 2015)

Asteger said:


> I'm wondering to what extent pros tend to think this way - the low-1000s work best, say 2k or 3k - while at home people like to go finer.



yeah, got me thinking too I work in a kitchen and I use to only go to as far as my bester 1200 cause I gotten a little bit lazy lately but couple weeks ago I decided to use my king 4000 and even stropped on chromium and I feel my edge is lasting a little bit longer how? i have no clue...


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## psfred (Jan 8, 2015)

Couple of things about a finely sharpened edge will make it last longer. The edge is more continuous, so there is less localized pressure as you cut, therefore less damage to the edge. They generally are sharper as well, in terms of a finer and thinner apex, and this lowers stresses on the edge as you cut, along with the sharper edge requiring less pressure.

And if the knife is really sharp you don't push as hard to cut things, and hence lessen the impact of the knife on the cutting board, again this reduces stresses on the edge, so it lasts longer.

I like my knives screaming sharp, but I have to be careful about letting other family members use them. They often cut themselves.

Peter


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## tbott (Jan 13, 2015)

Asteger said:


> I'm wondering to what extent pros tend to think this way - the low-1000s work best, say 2k or 3k - while at home people like to go finer.



I mean this in no way to be insulting, but I think home cooks might have more time on their hands in regards to their knives... It's a labor of love, a pleasure that you really enjoy getting down to, and therefore take the extra time. Sometimes, when you're slammed in the busy season, and your only waking hours when your not at work are from 9:00 am to 10:30 and you really need to sharpen your knives you make excuses to rush through it as a chore, which builds bad habits. Is it sharpest? No. Is it sharper? Yes? Ok, back to work. This is my excuse for being a terribly mediocre sharpener, anyways. Sigh. This year, I vow to suck less.


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## designdog (Jan 13, 2015)

I would bet that home users, at least those participating in these forums, sharpen less often, either because they are cooking for smaller groups and less frequently, and perhaps have more knives at hand to choose from. If I used the same knife all day, full time, and sharpened it every couple of hours, probably I too would not hit it with four different stones and a strop...


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## Benuser (Jan 13, 2015)

I'm a home user, but happen to work in a welfare kitchen where I use good old carbons for prep. They get 8k and Cr2O3 before service.


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## JCHine (Jan 15, 2015)

Home user - Tend to go up to a 3k Naniwa for most of my double bevels; got a 5k but it just does not seem to give them a durable edge. Single bevel usuba thrives on it however but it does get it *bling bling SHINY*. 

5k is good for a quick touchup. Tend to sharpen knives when they need them which is less frequently the better my sharpening gets. Wusty and K Sab SS get a monthly sharpen and a strop. Shig and Kato get a 1k then 3k every few months. Never sharpened the Yusuke high hardened SS gyuto...never seems to need it (but not looking forward to that one).


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## Sabaki (Jan 15, 2015)

Relatively many of the people I meet in both the catering profession and home kitchen believe that it is difficult to use wetstones and are a little uncertain about thinner lighter super sharp knives.
I tend to occasionally have a small briefing where I take a well-used blade of my own, and shows before and after how easy it is to restore a razor sharpness in less than 1 minute with a 5000 grit whetstone and balsa woodstrop. the hard part is not getting a knife sharp, the hard part is more in how to maintain your knife so it remains easy to sharpen.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 15, 2015)

JCHine said:


> Home user - Tend to go up to a 3k Naniwa for most of my double bevels; got a 5k but it just does not seem to give them a durable edge. Single bevel usuba thrives on it however but it does get it *bling bling SHINY*.
> 
> 5k is good for a quick touchup. Tend to sharpen knives when they need them which is less frequently the better my sharpening gets. Wusty and K Sab SS get a monthly sharpen and a strop. Shig and Kato get a 1k then 3k every few months. Never sharpened the Yusuke high hardened SS gyuto...never seems to need it (but not looking forward to that one).



JCH, On the contrary, that Yusuke will sharpen up crazy sharp. If you haven't sharpened it yet, you really haven't opened the knife yet, least that was the case with the three I have.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 15, 2015)

Home user. The majority of knives i sharpen (for my friends and family) are those with soft stainless steel. Those are finished with a Mizuyama 5k, just a few passes very lightly. In general i feel it helps greatly to reduce the extra teeth and also to take out some burr. One can feel the tooth diference immedialty when trying to cut a flimsy kind of paper with less fiber in it.
For japanese gyutos and nakiris, jats around 1 k to 6 k (not really sure) are used to finish.


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## JCHine (Jan 15, 2015)

> JCH, On the contrary, that Yusuke will sharpen up crazy sharp.



Thanks for the heads up Mucho...might have to give a go when the new set of stones from JNS arrive. The wife loves the knife to bits but has been happy with the level of sharp so far. I sneak a use of it every once it awhile and the time is coming that it will need see Mr Stone. 

Experience so far on Naniwa super stones has been they really don't like stainless that much. For some reason the Wusty and the K-Sabs are OK but Mundial's and cheap stainless is freaking horrid.


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## daveb (Jan 15, 2015)

Best bet w Mundial is to sharpen on a bar of soap. Won't be sharp but at least it will be clean....


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## mkriggen (Jan 16, 2015)

> Mundial's and cheap stainless is freaking horrid



Cheap stainless is always horrid:sad0:, you often can't even pull a burr on them because the steal just disintegrates on the stone. I just stick with the ceramic pull through for the soft stuff.

Be well,
Mikey


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## Geo87 (Jan 16, 2015)

JCH : I use super stones as well and I've got a yusuke extra hardness ss petty. It gets absurdly sharp from a 400, 1k,3k, diamond strop progression. I don't find it too hard to sharpen either Definitely not a horrible experience so don't feel put off. Sharpen that bad boy up your naniwa stones will do it fine. I think the super stones being so soft have trouble with the large hard carbides found in some stainless. I guess the Swedish stainless is a lot more fine grained than the nasty ss thats put you off. Either way the superstones work with the yusuke


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## riba (Jan 16, 2015)

Geo87 said:


> JCH : I use super stones as well and I've got a yusuke extra hardness ss petty. It gets absurdly sharp from a 400, 1k,3k, diamond strop progression. I don't find it too hard to sharpen either Definitely not a horrible experience so don't feel put off. Sharpen that bad boy up your naniwa stones will do it fine. I think the super stones being so soft have trouble with the large hard carbides found in some stainless. I guess the Swedish stainless is a lot more fine grained than the nasty ss thats put you off. Either way the superstones work with the yusuke



Same experience for me with my yusuke extra hardness SS gyuto, sharpens up easy i.m.o. (chosera 400, 1k; rika 5k; sometimes strop)


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## JCHine (Jan 22, 2015)

Now the new stones have arrived from JNS will have a try at opening that edge up finally. They did pretty well on a friends F-Dick tiny chefs knife so if that steel is OK then the Yusuke should be great. If there is interest will let y'all know how it goes.


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## JCHine (Jan 22, 2015)

Geo87 said:


> JCH : I use super stones as well and I've got a yusuke extra hardness ss petty. It gets absurdly sharp from a 400, 1k,3k, diamond strop progression. I don't find it too hard to sharpen either Definitely not a horrible experience so don't feel put off. Sharpen that bad boy up your naniwa stones will do it fine. I think the super stones being so soft have trouble with the large hard carbides found in some stainless. I guess the Swedish stainless is a lot more fine grained than the nasty ss thats put you off. Either way the superstones work with the yusuke



Agree with the softness of the SS and the hard carbides in cheap stainless. Recently got a Kaiden 400 low grit stone and it is amazingly quick on cheap stainless like Mundial compared to the SS400 that could not pull a burr. That triggered getting the JNS medium stones set as I get asked to do a lot of cheap stainless steel sharpening. Plus have got enough single bevels to warrant better stones (what I tell myself). Looks like the SS will be going up on BST but might keep the 3K kinda fond of that one even though it gums up a bit.


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 22, 2015)

This is the first I have heard of "Kaiden" stones. They appear to be a Chef's Armory house brand? Does anyone know who makes them?


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## Zwiefel (Jan 22, 2015)

for my personal knives, I usually stop on my 8k Kitayama (I don't use the nagura to smooth out the surface after flattening though)...for most other folks knives I stop on my 5k Mizayuma (smooth as glass that thing, but gouges easily).


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## Framingchisel (Jan 22, 2015)

If you mean the new diamond stones, yes.


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## Kentucky (Jan 22, 2015)

If Im using dia sharp plates I go to EEF, my highest waterstone right now is a 6K..I sold my 8K Kitayama and am regretting it.


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## ikyjr23 (Jan 22, 2015)

Kentucky said:


> If Im using dia sharp plates I go to EEF, my highest waterstone right now is a 6K..I sold my 8K Kitayama and am regretting it.



+1 for the kitayama being super valuable.


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## Geo87 (Jan 23, 2015)

JCHine said:


> might keep the 3K kinda fond of that one even though it gums up a bit.



Gums up a bit? Now that's an understatement! If I so much as think about stropping a knife on the 3k it clogs up with anticipation. 
Yet I also like it. I have absolutely no idea why.


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