# Gyuto 240-270



## tapionmajin2 (Aug 16, 2016)

Hello, everyone. 

I'm looking a gyuto for home use. I'm not a even an amateur chef just regular person that wants a sharp and nice looking knife. I understand that for my kitchen needs a victorinox would suffice but as I can afford something nicer and I'm a Japanese culture enthusiast I wanted to buy a Japanese knife.

LOCATION

Australia

KNIFE TYPE

Gyuto

Left-handed but girlfriend is R handed and she will use it as well with my permission 

Japanese handle

Length between 240-270mm

Stainless steel

Probably want to spend around 150 usd but if there something really great above that price I can do 200 (I'm limited ,in terms of money, by my cheapness rather than anything else  )


KNIFE USE

Home use

mostly meat slicing and trimming as well as cutting tuna for sushi, also limited use for slicing vegetables and all around kitchen work.

Replacing cheap kitchen knife from IKEA

No particular grip

Cutting motion - slice

Characteristics - Damascus/layered , stain resistance, well balanced, better handle, preferably use right out of box, smooth slicing and better food release, relatively easy to sharpen with reasonable edge Retention 


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
I use wood, synthetic cutting boards

Do you sharpen your own knives? no

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? Yes 

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? Yes

I'm planning to buy a 1000 grit water stone from Shapton

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I understand that most knives would do the job but I'm interested a in aesthetics thus I wanted a Damascus pattern and also due to my cheapness I love things that have a great price to value ratio.


Thanks for all the input.


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## richard (Aug 16, 2016)

Given the various parameters you describe, I'd recommend for you a knife like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221565546295

This OEM knife is sold under various different brands...I have one from the western handle hammered damascus VG-10 version, and it's a pretty solid knife for the money.

If you had double the budget, I'd be pointing you towards a Takamura Hana


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## chinacats (Aug 16, 2016)

I'd suggest looking at Tanaka from James @ Knivesandstones in Aus...and Welcome to kkf!

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-vg10-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-with-custom-octagonal-bubinga-handle/


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## richard (Aug 16, 2016)

Is the Tanaka mostly symmetric?


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## chinacats (Aug 16, 2016)

Most every Japanese knife is somewhat asymmetric...I believe the Tanaka to be less extreme than others. It is a very good knife for the money.


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## richard (Aug 16, 2016)

That the Tanaka is a good knife I don't doubt from all I've heard. I didn't know about the level of symmetry.

FYI tapion the one I recommended is symmetric grind with a 60/40 edge, can be easily maintained to 50/50.

Takamura and Ryusen (though neither are in budget) are symmetric 50/50, and the grind is done well.


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 16, 2016)

richard said:


> Given the various parameters you describe, I'd recommend for you a knife like this one:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221565546295
> 
> ...




Is this the same as the JCK Inazuma?


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## JaVa (Aug 16, 2016)

+1 on the Tanaka.

It's a high performance cutter from a very reputable bladesmith. His work of the vg10 stainless steel is thought to be one of the best and the polished damascus is very striking in person. Ticks every single box you mentioned. From K&S you can get it with very nice handle too and from your neck of the woods to boot.


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## JaVa (Aug 16, 2016)

Oops, the chinacats recommendation wasn't the damascus version I was referring to and the damascus vg10 doesn't seem to be in stock, but both are great! :doublethumbsup:


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 16, 2016)

chinacats said:


> I'd suggest looking at Tanaka from James @ Knivesandstones in Aus...and Welcome to kkf!
> 
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-vg10-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-with-custom-octagonal-bubinga-handle/



Is the 210mm version usually "enough" for house work, is there much advantage in 240-270mm size?

K&S only have the 210mm in stock.


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## richard (Aug 16, 2016)

tapionmajin2 said:


> Is this the same as the JCK Inazuma?



Yeah and about half a dozen other names. The handles can vary over time or with the brand, but it's the same blade. JCK lists it as VG-10, and at one point it was, the maker also switched to 19C27 at one point, and now is using AUS-10 (the yo/western handle blade has stayed VG-10 apparently).

FWIW when I talked to the owner of Portland/Phoenix knife house, who also sells these (forgot under which name), he likes the AUS-10 version over the 19C27 (which at some point he stopped carrying until the most recent steel switch).


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## richard (Aug 16, 2016)

210 is enough for most home jobs, but if you're going to have only one knife for a while due to budget and you have the board/kitchen space, I'd say get a 240.


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 16, 2016)

I'll probably skip the generic one and rather pay more for something better.

Are there any other vendors with Tanaka in Australia that would have the 240mm version?


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## kevpenbanc (Aug 16, 2016)

The Tanakas are very good knives, I have the blue 2 and Nashiji myself.

If you want a step up in capability, then this is better in all respects:

http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-suminagashi-r2-damascus-gyuto-240mm-by-shiro-kamo/

The R2 steel holds an edge significantly longer, the knife is thinner, but by no means a laser, and is a better cutter.
I have one of these knives too, and it is seriously good.

Length is a matter of preference, 210 will do what you need, but after using a 240 for a while you appreciate the extra length, or maybe not ;-)

My personal preference is 260.

Whereby in ozz are you?


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## JaVa (Aug 16, 2016)

+1 for the Shiro Kamo R2 damascus and to everything kevpenbanc said about it. I haven't used one, but would like to. It's a very respected performer and gets much love. I have two knives from Kamo and they're great. I really need to get a R2 steel knife soon!


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## kevpenbanc (Aug 16, 2016)

There are very few vendors selling Tanakas anywhere.

James seems to have good relations with them, send him an email if you want a Tanaka.
You may have to wait a little for what you want.
I do believe he's got a new korouchi line of Tanakas awaiting handles.

Metal master are the only other retailer I can think of, there's probably a few more around.




tapionmajin2 said:


> I'll probably skip the generic one and rather pay more for something better.
> 
> Are there any other vendors with Tanaka in Australia that would have the 240mm version?


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## JaVa (Aug 16, 2016)

I've used Metalmaster a couple of times. Prices are very good, but his shipments takes several weeks and there's absolutely no communication or customer service. The Tanakas he sells are not as well finished and wa handles are quite rough compared to what K&S offers which seems to be flawless. 

But Metalmaster has been dependable every time and I'm guessing that the shipments could be faster to Australia.


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 16, 2016)

kevpenbanc said:


> The Tanakas are very good knives, I have the blue 2 and Nashiji myself.
> 
> If you want a step up in capability, then this is better in all respects:
> 
> ...




That is a beautiful blade! I'll have to consider it.

I'm actually ok to pay bit more if the blade is nice looking. Do you know any other blades that look as nice in similar price range?

I'm from Perth


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 16, 2016)

JaVa said:


> I've used Metalmaster a couple of times. Prices are very good, but his shipments takes several weeks and there's absolutely no communication or customer service. The Tanakas he sells are not as well finished and wa handles are quite rough compared to what K&S offers which seems to be flawless.
> 
> But Metalmaster has been dependable every time and I'm guessing that the shipments could be faster to Australia.



Looks like metal master has them in stock

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product/645

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product/458


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## Devon_Steven (Aug 16, 2016)

Regarding symmetry, this is the Tanaka 240 blue two damascus I got from MetalMaster a few months ago...



240TG Aug 16 with centre line by Steven_D_B, on Flickr


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## kevpenbanc (Aug 16, 2016)

There are other blades around which are damascus, but they tend to be VG10, or similar.

I'm not aware of any other powdered steel equivalents. Takamura have the Hana line, a very nice looking R2 knife, but I'm not aware of a 240 option, only 210.

The Shiro Kamo is very good value for money, and a seriously good knife - looks are a bonus.

Browsing the Japanese Chefs Knives website will give you an idea of the range of knives available.


I actually bought my Tanaka blue 2 from metal master, as JaVa stated there is no communication, but it does arrive. You would probably be better off selecting EMS over SAL for postage - quicker.




tapionmajin2 said:


> That is a beautiful blade! I'll have to consider it.
> 
> I'm actually ok to pay bit more if the blade is nice looking. Do you know any other blades that look as nice in similar price range?
> 
> I'm from Perth


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## JaVa (Aug 16, 2016)

Yep, The wa handled one is the one I have except with the plastic ferrule instead of the buffalo horn ferrule . You will probably need to sand down some sharp edges from the spine in front off the handle and the choil too, to add comfort to a pinch grip. 

Mine had a decent size step where the ferrule and wood meet. I just sanded it down. Although the buffalo ferrule version looks to be flush in the pictures, but not sure. Nothing to worry about, but just aheads up so it won't come as a surprise.


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## Devon_Steven (Aug 16, 2016)

JaVa said:


> Yep, The wa handled one is the one I have except with the plastic ferrule instead of the buffalo horn ferrule . You will probably need to sand down some sharp edges from the spine in front off the handle and the choil too, to add comfort to a pinch grip.
> 
> Mine had a decent size step where the ferrule and wood meet. I just sanded it down. Although the buffalo ferrule version looks to be flush in the pictures, but not sure. Nothing to worry about, but just aheads up so it won't come as a surprise.



My experience was:

- no issues with rough edges on the blade;

- blade was not perfectly straight (but easily bent back into straightness);

- same as JaVa, ho wood not flush with plastic ferrule. Same as JaVa, I just sanded it down, and the result is nice.


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## Devon_Steven (Aug 16, 2016)

I should add to my symmetry photo above, that using a ruler to inspect the blade from spine to edge all the way from heel to tip suggests that it is a more or less symmetrical grind.

This does not seem to negatively affect cutting performance, I have been entirely satisfied with that!


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 16, 2016)

Is the R2 better than VG10?

And in terms of kurouchi finish is there something interesting?

This is what I found interesting on K&S (apart from Tanaka and Shiro)

http://www.knivesandstones.com/syou...-aogami-super-stainless-cladding-by-kurosaki/


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## JaVa (Aug 16, 2016)

In general R2 is better. If money is no object, I'd go with the Shiro Kamo R2, but if you're hesitant to go over budget I'm sure you would enjoy the Tanaka. 

Both knives represent exceptional value for $.

That Kurosaki looks good. It's a carbon steel core blade though not ss, so the edge will patina and can rust if abused. I have no experience with Kurosaki, but I'm interested about his stuff. In this case the kurouchi finish is there only for visual effect. The KU is usually left (sometimes added) on a carbon blade to add protection against corrosion. But it's a stainless cladded knife so no actual purpose other than maybe some added food release.


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## kevpenbanc (Aug 16, 2016)

Yup.
In my experience you get a sharper edge, and it holds an edge considerably longer.

Steel aside, the geometry (cross section of the blade) is also much better on the Shiro Kamo than the Tanaka Nashiji and blue 2 that I have. I don't have the Tanaka VG10 damascus so I cannot speak for that.

The Kamo is a thinner knife, good grind.

Don't get me wrong, the Tanakas are excellent blades and you'll no doubt be very happy with them.
The Kamo is just a step change in performance.




tapionmajin2 said:


> Is the R2 better than VG10?
> 
> And in terms of kurouchi finish is there something interesting?
> 
> ...


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 16, 2016)

So is the kurouchi added only to carbon steel and not to SS?


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## kevpenbanc (Aug 16, 2016)

The Kurosaki is stainkess clad with a carbon core.
In this case the kurochi is on stainless.



tapionmajin2 said:


> So is the kurouchi added only to carbon steel and not to SS?


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 16, 2016)

So is the edge stainless steel or carbon? And if only the core (not the edge as well) is carbon what does that do for the knife?


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## kevpenbanc (Aug 16, 2016)

The cutting edge is part of the central core, in this case carbon.
The two outer sides of the knife are stainless.
This helps with maintenance as only the very bottom of the knife, the edge, is liable to rust if mistreated.




tapionmajin2 said:


> So is the edge stainless steel or carbon? And if only the core (not the edge as well) is carbon what does that do for the knife?


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 16, 2016)

Thanks for all the info.
I'm waiting for reply from K&S about Tanaka and I will decide then.


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 17, 2016)

richard said:


> Given the various parameters you describe, I'd recommend for you a knife like this one:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221565546295
> 
> ...



Richard could you point me to a Takamura Hana knife just so I have an idea what you are talking about


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## bennyprofane (Aug 17, 2016)

Takamura Hana: https://www.mtckitchen.com/takamura-gyuto-knife-hana-damascus-hsps-210mm/

Unfortunately they dont make it in 240 or 270.


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## richard (Aug 17, 2016)

Yes I mistakenly thought it went up to at least a 240, shame that it doesn't.

There is an Australian shop that sells them, with locations in both Sydney and Melbourne, so it might be worth checking out in person just to get a feel for some current knives...

http://www.chefsarmoury.com/collections/takamura-octagon

They do carry the Takamura Pro up to 240 (actually in Japan you can even get up to 300 I think), but that one is western handle and not damascus.

http://www.chefsarmoury.com/pages/takamura-knives


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 18, 2016)

Thanks richard!


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 18, 2016)

BTW it would be cheaper to buy the Takamura than fly to Sydney/Melbourne to check them out


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## malexthekid (Aug 18, 2016)

Where in Aus are you?


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## kevpenbanc (Aug 18, 2016)

malexthekid said:


> Where in Aus are you?



He's in Perth Alex.


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## Ydj32 (Aug 18, 2016)

Takeda's gyutos seem pretty popular


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 19, 2016)

So it looks like K&S has Tanaka blades in stock just the not the handles  but they said they might be able to put something non standard on it


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## kevpenbanc (Aug 19, 2016)

tapionmajin2 said:


> So it looks like K&S has Tanaka blades in stock just the not the handles  but they said they might be able to put something non standard on it



Would be interesting to see what you get.


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## JaVa (Aug 19, 2016)

Yep, me too.


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 21, 2016)

So in the end I bought the Shiro Kano 

Thanks for the advice.


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## JaVa (Aug 21, 2016)

That is a terrific kinfe! :doublethumbsup:
It would be great to hear how you like it when it arrives.


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## DanHumphrey (Aug 21, 2016)

Devon_Steven said:


> I should add to my symmetry photo above, that using a ruler to inspect the blade from spine to edge all the way from heel to tip suggests that it is a more or less symmetrical grind.
> 
> This does not seem to negatively affect cutting performance, I have been entirely satisfied with that!



Hmm, on mine the bevel starts about twice as high on the right side as on the left, thought he choil looks to go the other way.


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## Devon_Steven (Aug 22, 2016)

DanHumphrey said:


> Hmm, on mine the bevel starts about twice as high on the right side as on the left, thought he choil looks to go the other way.



I had another look at mine and - on both sides - the convexing begins immediately at the spine and works its way down to the edge.

That is, there are no flat nor concave sections; everything is convexed.

So it's a straightforward entirely-convexed grind (I don't know the technical term for that).


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## tapionmajin2 (Aug 23, 2016)

When I get , I'll upload some pictures.


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## tapionmajin2 (Sep 4, 2016)

So I got the knife  Now it looks like I will also need a saya or some other blade guard for it . Does anyone have any suggestions?


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## tapionmajin2 (Sep 4, 2016)

So I haven't yet used the knife much but few things I found so far:
-feels light but well balanced and thus when cutting you actually feel like it is heavy
-very nice damascus pattern
-sharp
-handle fits well in hand

When I have more experience with it I will post more but if anyone has any questions fire away.

Here are few pictures


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## tapionmajin2 (Sep 5, 2016)

It looks like the google photos are not embedding.
Here is the a link to the album

https://goo.gl/photos/64xEVMK76dAc1jnQA


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## JaVa (Sep 5, 2016)

That's sweet. The profile looks sooo good. Actually it looks exactly the same as my Shiro Kamo Migaki. I love everything about the knife, but that profile just seals the deal for me. It's the one specific thing I love most about it.

Shiro Kamo + R2 is a combination that really is tickling my senses. :doublethumbsup:
I've got four or five knives on my hit list and this is definitely one of them.

So little time and so many lovely, shiny, sharp objects! :dazed:


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