# Please help me to save PIZZA



## Matus (Aug 27, 2013)

I am an average home cook. There are dishes that I can do quite well, then there are those that will be just OK and than there is pizza.

This cry comes after my yesterdays attempt that failed so miserably that there was barely something to eat :doublebanghead:

I know that I can not really make 'true' pizza with an electric oven, but I would like to be able to produce at least acceptable results that me and my family could enjoy.

I have tried several ways to make the dough, but it nearly always turns into dry pad instead of nice, bread-like smelling crunchy&soft pizza base. I am probably doing wrong several things at a time, so I am not going to bore you with a description of my procedure.

So, would some of you more experienced/gifted share a recipe & how-to make some decent pizza at home kitchen conditions? My marriage does not depend on it, but me self esteem does :helpsos:


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## Dusty (Aug 27, 2013)

Find a high protein flour, above ten percent is a good start.

When mixing your dough, mix it for a long time in order to make sure that the gluten is fully developed. I'm talking ten-fifteen minutes on medium in a domestic mixer, followed by a decent amount of time to rest before you work it again to roll it into balls, followed by ample time to prove the dough - underproved dough can be a bit like leathery cardboard, overproved dough can be like leathery crackers.

Your dough should be as moist as you can handle it, when you mix it it should only pull away from the sides of the mixing bowl in the last few minutes of mixing - this may take some trial and error. The higher the protein of the flour you are using the more water it will be able to take. 

As far as your oven goes, turn it up as far as it can possibly go and add some thermal mass to produce some radiant heat. A commercial pizza stone is fine, but so is a layer of ceramic house bricks on the bottom of your oven.

Adding thermal mass to a domestic oven can improve its performance substantially.

I'm at home and don't have my pizza dough recipe on me, but I'll try and remember to post it here in a couple of days, when I go back to work I'll look it up.

Best of luck.


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## Von blewitt (Aug 27, 2013)

My Dough recipe is 
375g "00" flour
250ml tepid water
1/2 teaspoon dry yeast
Pinch salt
50ml olive oil

Put the water & yeast together for 10 minutes to activate, then combine all the ingredients to form a dough, knead for 10-15 minutes until smooth & elastic. Place in a covered bowl to rise for an hour or so. Knock the dough back and divide into 3.
Roll each piece of dough into a tight ball. Allow to rest for at least half an hour.

Now roll out onto a tray, if you want it fluffier, allow to prove again once it's rolled out for 15 -20 minutes.

Add your toppings ( sauce first, then cheese, then sparingly with the rest of the toppings)

Hot oven it should take around 10 minutes in a domestic electric oven.

Hope this helps

Looks like Dusty beet me too it! Looks like we agree on the details though haha


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## 99cuts (Aug 27, 2013)

Matus said:


> I am an average home cook. There are dishes that I can do quite well, then there are those that will be just OK and than there is pizza.
> 
> This cry comes after my yesterdays attempt that failed so miserably that there was barely something to eat :doublebanghead:
> 
> ...



haha, i've had successes and failures making pizza in my oven. There is hope! 

which dough recipe are you using? are you trying to make napoletana pizza or NY style?

guessing blindly based on my own failures, you're probably leaving it in the oven too long. At 550 f, 7 mins is optimal, maybe 10 if the dough is thick, but not longer than that.


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## CrisAnderson27 (Aug 27, 2013)

I'm in on this one for dough recipes...I love me some pizza!

The last pizza I made was with store bought dough...on my barbecue grill lol. Didn't turn out too badly . I mostly followed this recipe:

http://shine.yahoo.com/video/grill-next-door-perfect-grilled-225618771.html
(my friend made her chef's knife lol)

The sauce was phenomenal!


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 27, 2013)

I've been throwing pizza's for years and this is the best tasting dough I've ever had. Not even close. I reproduced this recipe exactly. They too about 2 minutes to cook. Without toppings, just cheese and sauce, they cook in about 60 seconds. Even in a regular over 9Kenmore Elite), by preheating to 550 for 20-25 min. I can get the steel plate to about 620--650

Some secrets

1.) 00 Caputo Flour
2.) 1/4 Carbon Steel baking sheet
3.) Champagne in place of water

Here is a Linguica pizza with pep/miush/onion I made

http://seattlefoodgeek.com/2012/07/no-yeast-no-rise-champagne-pizza-dough/


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## Dardeau (Aug 27, 2013)

I don't like the way "traditional" pizza comes out in a home oven so I either make sheet tray focaccia pizza (staff meal classic), or make little flatbreads with toppings. Any naan recipe will work for this, just use ap flour in place of chapati(sp?) flour. I really like doing the flatbreads in the summer because you can do them on a grill or a flat pan and not have to heat your whole house up with an oven and stone.


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## Dardeau (Aug 27, 2013)

That being said that is a delicious looking pie in the post above


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## adletson (Aug 27, 2013)

If you are serious about making a better pizza, go to the forum at pizzamaking.com. (Hope it's okay to point to another forum here.) That has got to be the largest collection of pizza geeks and gurus on the planet. They can answer practically any question you have.

I have been making all the pizza my family eats at home for the last 5 years, and while I can quickly attest I am still a novice, I can give at least some helpful tips. Just to let you know the rabbit hole of pizza is the deepest one I've ever seen. You can fall down it and spend the rest of your life there. Literally.

It would help to know your general location in the world (to see what products you have access to), what your goal pizza is (Napoletana, New York, Chicago Deep Dish, "American" (think Pizza Hut Hand Tossed), or some other kind), what your baking setup is (do you have a stone? what is the highest temp your oven will go to?).

Right now, the type of flour you are using is the least important variable of everything your doing. Pick a decent bread flour that you can reliably get in your area and go with it until you get the hang of mixing, shaping, etc. 

Once you give an idea to the above questions, I'll try and help as best I can.


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## EdipisReks (Aug 27, 2013)

Von blewitt said:


> My Dough recipe is
> 375g "00" flour
> 250ml tepid water
> 1/2 teaspoon dry yeast
> ...



this is essentially identical to my process, and works well, though i wish my gas oven got hotter (maxes out at about 550, according to my cheapo oven thermometer).


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## EdipisReks (Aug 27, 2013)

Mucho Bocho said:


> I've been throwing pizza's for years and this is the best tasting dough I've ever had. Not even close. I reproduced this recipe exactly. They too about 2 minutes to cook. Without toppings, just cheese and sauce, they cook in about 60 seconds. Even in a regular over 9Kenmore Elite), by preheating to 550 for 20-25 min. I can get the steel plate to about 620--650
> 
> Some secrets
> 
> ...



hmmm, i might have to get one of those baking sheets! my cordierite stone is great for bread, but i don't like the results with pizza nearly as much. that looks great, though!


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## JohnnyChance (Aug 27, 2013)

skip the grill, skip the oven and use a large cast iron pan. use one of the dough recipes here, get it nice and thin, med high heat with a little bit of oil, sear one side lightly, flip, add toppings and finish the other side. you can go into the oven to help melt cheeses and such if you need to. depending on your stove you will need to find the right setting for each side of the dough, should only take a few minutes total.


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## skiajl6297 (Aug 27, 2013)

Some great information (and fun reads) here on all things pizzamaking.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2013/02/ultimate-pizza-making-guide.html?ref=sectionnav


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## gic (Aug 27, 2013)

If you buy ceramic bricks (from like a home depot) make sure they are unglazed uarry tiles, the Saltillo Tiles are cheap and unglazed for example


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## Matus (Aug 27, 2013)

Wow, thanks - I see you guys take cooking seriously - I like that :thumbsup:

Quite a few advices and suggestions - I will try to implement some of those (maybe over the weekend). I will check those links, but I fear to fall for another obsession (I already have quite a few, japanese kitchen knives and stones being the latest ones) :O

But since there were also quite a few questions let me get to those first:

*1)* First of all - both our oven and the stove are electric. Oven can make it up to 275 Celsius (527F) with the grill turned on and can keep 250 C (482F) with the normal hearing - what does not sound like particularly much given the numbers that have been mentioned. The stove - since it is electric too - is not really able to get a pan to temperatures that would be high enough. With gas it would be different story (we used to use a iron plate on gas stove at home for similar purposes).

*2)* As of now I do not have any stone, tile or thick piece of iron for baking, but I could surely do something about that. What would work better - steel or ceramic? I would guess steel as it transports heat more effectively. But I have learned that putting pizza inside the owen on a baking sheet (that is cold at the time the pizza goes inside the oven) does NOT lead to success.

*3)* I live in Germany and I can get my hands on normal (good) bread flour since bread is widely produced around here. So this should not be a problem.

*4)* Type of pizza - I would probably prefer to approach more typical pizza (guess that would be the Napolitana). I have never been to NY or Chicago so I do not know what you guys do with pizza there :lol2: I would like the dough to be on the thin side (just the edges thicker - I love the dough itself) - I prefer most the simpler pizzas when it comes to the toppings.

*5)* One question concerning the yeast - we usually use (mostly cakes) fresh yeast - would there be a particular reason to use a powder one instead?

*6)* The recipe - I did not use scales (just for the flour) but my recipe would basically be similar as what was mentioned already (flour, water, yeast, salt) - I did not use oil last time (I did in some of my previous attempts).


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## Talim (Aug 27, 2013)

We have an electric oven too and cook pizza in it all the time. I do use a pizza stone though and I mostly use the dough recipe that came with it. It's a mixture of regular flour and some wheat flour. I do think the stone helps a lot so you should definitely get one and try it out first with your dough recipe. I don't have access to fresh yeast so I use the instant one. Might be worth trying instant yeast just to see if it helps your dough rise more.


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## Von blewitt (Aug 27, 2013)

If using fresh yeast, double the amount is the rule of thumb


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## Justin0505 (Aug 28, 2013)

CrisAnderson27 said:


> I'm in on this one for dough recipes...I love me some pizza!
> 
> The last pizza I made was with store bought dough...on my barbecue grill lol. Didn't turn out too badly . I mostly followed this recipe:
> 
> ...



I never knew all that was next door. Pretty PO'd my neighbors have been holding out on me. She's a looker! Not a big fan of the belly, but overall composition looked classy. Who made her? 
The girl using her was cute too.


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## CrisAnderson27 (Aug 28, 2013)

Justin0505 said:


> I never knew all that was next door. Pretty PO'd my neighbors have been holding out on me. She's a looker! Not a big fan of the belly, but overall composition looked classy. Who made her?
> The girl using her was cute too.



That's what I'm sayin!

The maker's name is John Logan. The knife does look a little thick behind the edge though...lol. Here's what he had to say about it:



> The Michigan Chef knife I made a few months ago, now has it own cooking show! The knife is made from all reclaimed materials from the state of Michigan. The pattern welded blade is; cable from Detroit, a file found in a barn, high speed steel from GM, and wrought iron from a ship wreck in lake Michigan. The handle is stabilized cypress that was used for a 100 years as part of a pickle vat.



Good stuff . You can find a link to the picture of it on the bladesmith's forum if you search 'Michigan Chef Knife'.


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## 99cuts (Aug 28, 2013)

Matus said:


> Wow, thanks - I see you guys take cooking seriously - I like that :thumbsup:
> 
> Quite a few advices and suggestions - I will try to implement some of those (maybe over the weekend). I will check those links, but I fear to fall for another obsession (I already have quite a few, japanese kitchen knives and stones being the latest ones) :O
> 
> ...



If you don't have a stone or steel, you lose all the heat when you open the oven door. At that point your dough is baking too slowly, so all the moisture will be gone by the end. I suspect that's the primary problem at this point.


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