# Knife workshop



## stringer (Nov 1, 2020)

I'm going to buy a house soon. My wife says I can have a knife workshop in the backyard. What do your workshops look like? What would your workshops look like if you could build one from scratch? I don't have an unlimited budget, but I don't have to skimp. This is just for my own amateur pursuits. If you have been through this process before what advice so you have? What should I be considering? I want to develop some plans.

Here's my wishlist so far:

A workbench
Utility sink
Tool storage
Materials storage
Drill press
Metal band saw
Table saw
2x72 belt sander
Dust collection
Climate control


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## stringer (Nov 1, 2020)

And some kind of forge, maybe an anvil


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## jwthaparc (Nov 2, 2020)

You might as well add a bench grinder as well. You could use it for polishing among a bunch of other things.


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## juice (Nov 2, 2020)

I'd add a grinder, and think about a 2" x 48" belt sander (smaller footprint) unless you need the bigger wheels. Also, the ones that swivel through 90 degrees are super useful, they say. (This is based on listening to knifemaking podcasts, and trying to glean info from the experts, not personal experience, obviously)


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## JDC (Nov 2, 2020)

I'd say get just enough equipment to get things going. Later on invest heavily into something you care the most.


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## M1k3 (Nov 2, 2020)

Don't skimp on the dust control.


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## RDalman (Nov 2, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Don't skimp on the dust control.


+1, and no matter how good your dust control - don't skimp on a comfy dustmask too.
As your in US and anvils near prices of gold by weight there, look into the topic "anvil shaped object". esp us knifemakers can get by with a small hitting surface. So like a long round will work well or so, you just need mass in it, and a hard surface is nice too.


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## RDalman (Nov 2, 2020)

juice said:


> I'd add a grinder, and think about a 2" x 48" belt sander (smaller footprint) unless you need the bigger wheels. Also, the ones that swivel through 90 degrees are super useful, they say. (This is based on listening to knifemaking podcasts, and trying to glean info from the experts, not personal experience, obviously)


2x72 belts are generally better economy and belt selection, and I couldn't live without my wheels !
I would say if you want to hold off on something, it's the metal bandsaw and tablesaw, a cheapo wood bandsaw can be nice to have though. For profiling if you have a 2x72 a angle grinder for roughing is actually faster than metal bandsaw, just dirtier.


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## M1k3 (Nov 2, 2020)

Don't longer belts help with keeping the blade from heating up as fast also?


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## ian (Nov 2, 2020)

I’d start with buying only the dust collection equipment. You can try that out for a few months, see how it works in practice, and then eventually invest in the rest of the stuff.

(Nice thread. Very interested in the responses, for the future. Apologies that I don't have any real advice.)


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## Kippington (Nov 2, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Don't longer belts help with keeping the blade from heating up as fast also?


In theory yes, but realistically it's negligible. For example, if you use a blunt belt on a 72" you'll heat the work up faster than a sharp belt on a 42". You mostly get more life out of each belt if it's twice the length.

By the way, read up on the dangers of static and grinding sparks going into your dust collection before you set it up.


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## Illyria (Nov 2, 2020)

Invest in a variable speed grinder. Worth every penny.


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## Bensbites (Nov 2, 2020)

I have differ sanders for wood that have dust collection, a 1x30 and a rigid edge sander. I don’t have dust collection on my 2 x 72.


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## SeattleBen (Nov 2, 2020)

FWIW to anyone looking for heavy things, I may still have access to rail stock which you could make work. Shipping will be a pig but if anyone needs some I’ll see if I still have access.


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## juice (Nov 2, 2020)

RDalman said:


> 2x72 belts are generally better economy and belt selection, and I couldn't live without my wheels !


Fair enough, I was basing that on an Australian podcast where three knife makers (including a seller of tools/belts) were saying that the cost difference was too small to be concerned about in overall terms ("Just buy a pack of 10 to get the bulk discount and you'll be fine either way"). One of them runs classes and has three 48" that get a LOT of use. It's always entirely possible that things cost different amounts down here as well.

But yeah, the bigger wheels are a thing, it seems pretty clear, as I remembered it from the podcast, so they must have made a special note of them 

(Also, my wife just used my new knife of yours to slice a kransky in half lengthwise, and I got a "nice" reaction from her, so you're clearly on a winner there


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## RDalman (Nov 2, 2020)

juice said:


> Fair enough, I was basing that on an Australian podcast where three knife makers (including a seller of tools/belts) were saying that the cost difference was too small to be concerned about in overall terms ("Just buy a pack of 10 to get the bulk discount and you'll be fine either way"). One of them runs classes and has three 48" that get a LOT of use. It's always entirely possible that things cost different amounts down here as well.
> 
> But yeah, the bigger wheels are a thing, it seems pretty clear, as I remembered it from the podcast, so they must have made a special note of them
> 
> (Also, my wife just used my new knife of yours to slice a kransky in half lengthwise, and I got a "nice" reaction from her, so you're clearly on a winner there


Ah, cool I was ignorant and assumptious on economy factor then. Yea as long as one uses fresh belts at appropriate speed, one will have a good time.


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## dafox (Nov 2, 2020)

The belt sander that this guy uses looks very useful to me.


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## Kippington (Nov 2, 2020)

Those are often sold under the name "linisher".


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## Byphy (Nov 2, 2020)

dafox said:


> The belt sander that this guy uses looks very useful to me.



I'm curious as to what he puts under the belts on the platen to avoid deep scratches. If anyone knows, would be appreciative.


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## stringer (Nov 2, 2020)

We hunted for a house that had a suitable garage or workshop already but we were unable to find any that met our other needs for house and neighborhood. So I'm going to build the actual space. The house we're buying has alley access in back and no garage now. So I figure I'll design it so it could alternatively be a 2 car garage if I get bored or we have to move again. I'm with you guys on the don't invest too much in equipment all at once so I will definitely start with dust collection and a kick-ass variable speed belt sander. 3 years of using the 1x30 in the guest bedroom of an apartment has left me distinctly unsatisfied. Bench grinder, angle grinder, and drill press (I'm also tired of only having a dremel drill press).

The forge and anvil and more general purpose woodworking equipment can wait.

Thanks for all the input so far. I'll keep everyone posted. We ratified our contract today and supposed to close December 17. So hopefully everything goes as planned.


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## Illyria (Nov 2, 2020)

stringer said:


> We hunted for a house that had a suitable garage or workshop already but we were unable to find any that met our other needs for house and neighborhood. So I'm going to build the actual space. The house we're buying has alley access in back and no garage now. So I figure I'll design it so it could alternatively be a 2 car garage if I get bored or we have to move again. I'm with you guys on the don't invest too much in equipment all at once so I will definitely start with dust collection and a kick-ass variable speed belt sander. 3 years of using the 1x30 in the guest bedroom of an apartment has left me distinctly unsatisfied. Bench grinder, angle grinder, and drill press (I'm also tired of only having a dremel drill press).
> 
> The forge and anvil and more general purpose woodworking equipment can wait.
> 
> Thanks for all the input so far. I'll keep everyone posted. We ratified our contract today and supposed to close December 17. So hopefully everything goes as planned.



I'm using a Pheer grinder and I'm super content with it. I haven't even looked at. My HF 1x30 since I got it. 


When you look for an anvil and forge, check out the ones from Atlas Knife. They fit in flat rate boxes so you don't get murdered on shipping.


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## stringer (Nov 2, 2020)

Kippington said:


> By the way, read up on the dangers of static and grinding sparks going into your dust collection before you set it up.



I have thought a lot about this. And seen a few close calls and horror stories. Who was it on here a few years ago? @Matus I think. Anyway I'll try to keep metal sparks away from the wood dust. Safety first.


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## Matus (Nov 3, 2020)

Kipp hit the nail on the head. Once you start grinding the sparks start flying. While I do use the same dust extraction system for steel and for wood, when grinding steel I only extract the dust from above the grinder to catch loose, cold steel dust and have a bucket of water catching all the hot sparks.

And yes, I did (with a little 1x30" grinder!) set my shop vacuum cleaner on fire (though just the dust collection bag got a fist sized hole) as I have attached the house directly to the housing of the grinder. The fire could have been worse as wearing a respirator one can not smell the smoke. When I noticed the issue I killed the power to the vacuum cleaner and had water ready before I opened it. It was a lesson learned. If my big dust collecting system would catch fire, that would be very bad and have serious consequences.

I have now a 2kg fire extinguisher at a position where I can grab it nearly immediately just for the case


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## Luftmensch (Nov 3, 2020)

RDalman said:


> don't skimp on a comfy dustmask too.





Matus said:


> I have now a 2kg fire extinguisher at a position where I can grab it nearly immediately just for the case





stringer said:


> A workbench
> Utility sink
> Tool storage
> Materials storage
> ...



+ PPE*
+ Fire alarm 
+ Extinguisher



Probably buy these before anything else 
* I recommend going straight to a full** face mask. Protect your eyes and face while you protect your lungs.
** Full face masks are better with beards... Yeah I know... The ratings are violated with a beard (tsk, tsk). YOU will have to choose how much protection you want (will you shave?). Just know that since you have facial hair, a half mask will suck...


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## Dhoff (Nov 3, 2020)

Thank you Stringer for posting this thread, it is very interesting 

What about the requiremnets for the room itself?

Flooring
Wall material
Size
Isolated or not


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## Matus (Nov 3, 2020)

I find that half face mask with face shield (3M G500) is a good combination too as I can use the mask without the shield when doing other work than grinding (oiling, gluing). The face shield is fairly robust, the shield itself can be swapped (when too scratched) and will never have issues with condensation.


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## Kawa (Nov 3, 2020)

dafox said:


> The belt sander that this guy uses looks very useful to me.




I have one of those.
The thing for me is, I can't seem to find any belts that are seamlessly welded.
Im afraid to keep ordering belts online, since you have to see how the seam is and you wont know from on online discription.

So, is there any particulair brand you guys use for your belts?


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## Matus (Nov 3, 2020)

The best belts are from 3M (Cubitron) and Norton (Blaze) to my experience. Give or take - you want the following belts:

For blades:
- Ceramic 36/40, 60/80, 120 - each maker has several similar and similarly named belts, check in detail online which you want to get
- 3m Trizact Gator (there are two versions now, one works better with wet grinding) - A300, A100, A45 (unless you are working on wear resistant steels you can skip the grits in-between)
- Depending on how you do finish, Scotchbrite belts from 3M may make sense

For wood (handle shaping, USW) 
- Aluminum Oxide: 40, 60, 120, 240, maybe even 400

No belts are 'perfect', but the more expensive once I usually better than others. With that said - I am using Bora 7 ceramic belts as they are considerably cheaper than 3M or Norton (here in Germany)


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## Desert Rat (Nov 4, 2020)

You are in the best part of the country for picking old tools. If you put some effort into it you will find all you need in the way of smithing tools. There is nothing like a blacksmiths leg vise (post vise). Made to be beat on and the jaws are soft non marring (wrought iron).


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## Jimbbles (Nov 5, 2020)

Don't have any input but just want to say good luck with the project. Sounds like a dream.


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## gregfisk (Nov 5, 2020)

I’ve been building my shop for the last year and a half now. I have purchased all of my power tools used, or I’ve built them myself over time. I have found that you can buy really nice older tools for pennies on the dollar. I’ve used Craig’s List and picked up three 6x48 sanders, two 14” bandsaws and a 12” disk sander. I built my 2x72 belt grinder, a mini lathe for making handles and a moving mag table for profile sanding my knives. If I were to do it again I would start out with a 2x72 Grinder, a small handheld bandsaw with table and a drill press. That allows you to cut, grind and drill holes in metal for knife making and any other metal projects you might have. A hand held grinder is cheap to buy new so that may be a good choice as well.


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## McMan (Nov 6, 2020)

Here's a thought--and a way to skimp on OSB  Party door on the backside of the garage that opens to the yard. This way you can have a garage door at the alley plus a door opening to the yard. Hot days, air flows straight through. Or close the alley-side door and keep the party door open if you want some privacy. 
Like this:


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## NO ChoP! (Nov 6, 2020)

I have found building my shop to be almost more fun than working in it, lol.


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## gregfisk (Nov 10, 2020)

NO ChoP! said:


> I have found building my shop to be almost more fun than working in it, lol.



It’s funny that you say that. I have enjoyed making the tools for my shop more than the things I make in my shop. Getting the shop set up properly and making equipment that helps build projects more efficiently is what I’ve enjoyed the most. Today I turned my table saw extension table into a router table with a power lift for the router. Next project is a mag table for my drill press. And as of two weeks ago that same drill press now has a motor on the table for moving it up and down without having to use the hand crank.


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## AT5760 (Nov 10, 2020)

Found an anvil for sale locally, but shipping from Nebraska to Virginia would be pricey!


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## TheNewMexican (Nov 11, 2020)

Lot's of good info in the previous posts. "Dust Collection" made me think that this is maybe a combination wood / metal shop? Here's how I went about creating a starter set for both;

*Wood Shop*
- Purchased a 10HP rotary phase converter. This opened my world up to nice, vintage, industrial 3 phase machines.
- Planer: My suggestion is a Powermatic 180. Lots of these were made, parts are easily available and many good condition, used buys from vocational schools. Get a copy of the manual using an internet search. Watch some videos online and you'll be good to go when searching the used market
- Table saw; Delta, craftsman, lots of good older brands with heavy castings. I settled on an Oliver 232 vintage WWII. The table itself is 2" ribbed casting with an extension table and micrometer fence, direct drive and 14 inch blade. 
- Jointer: Northfield, Oliver, etc. 
- Bases with wheels make it easy to move these machines around. Pushed against a wall in a small shop, they free up space for other work.
- Workbench: An excellent first project using these three tools. I settled on a Roubo style...... Gives a lot of work holding possibilities. 
- I'm a hand tool guy as well, so jack planes, scrapers, brace and bits, chisels, mallet, etc.












*Basic Metal Shop*
- Disc grinder: I worked in South America and watched the welder fabricators build everything and I mean everything with a disc grinder and a stick welder. The stuff they built was really first rate! Cutoff wheels, grinding discs and wire wheel to round out the disc grinder arsenal.
- Welder of some sort: Tombstone buzz box or whatever interests you. 
- Corded drill or small drill press.
- Plasma cutter or torch

*Knife shop*
- Depending on experience level, maybe a basic class in forging or sometimes a person can find a class in stock removal knife making. This can help a person decide since most individuals go one way or the other and that determines the shop tools.
- Steel source 
- Some type of grinder (a lot of different opinions above)
- Heat source for heat treat. This can be as simple as a forge and toaster oven to temper, or an actual heat treat oven controlled using thermocouples. I'm kinda disinterested in this regard, so I send batches of rough ground knives to Pete Bos, he does the heat treat for buck knives. 
- Handle material and a way to rough cut and shape it
- Finishing supplies
- This list is a little vague because there are so many ways to skin the cat in the world of knifemaking.

Good luck, and congrats on the new shop!


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## gregfisk (Nov 11, 2020)

Regarding heat treat ovens, they’re really pretty easy to build. I built mine using lightweight kiln style bricks and angle iron. No welding needed and the propane burner is also easy to build.


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## captaincaed (Nov 19, 2020)

I you haven’t listened to the Knifetalk podcast (when it goes to three-host format, not the knifemaker interviews it started as), it may have some tips you like. The three guys talk about tool choices, shop tips, etc. in between the dick jokes.

TL;DR from what I remember (their tips not mine) - Good PPE, quick release respirator, with a little pen-light clipped to the front. You don’t save money buying cheap tools, in that quality tools are resellable if you don’t like them. For knives, it seems like bandsaws are more used than table saws (for scales), unless you’re going into production, then table saws are great for bucking down sheets of wood/G10. Forge before nice anvil (just find something for a striking surface). Get a 2x72 with VFD, horizontal tilt, adaptable tool rest (I think they like Brodbeck, since it’s bare bones but very adaptable, also a show sponsor). Don’t waste time on cheap sandpaper, use Rhyonwet. Beware of your buffer, it _is_ actively trying to kill you.


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## captaincaed (Nov 19, 2020)

Also, congrats getting a shop set up. I’m getting my first woodshop after working 18 years in my dads. Got a table saw and accumulated hand tools, feels like I can do anything.

...except jointing. Or planing. Or drill pressing. Or routing. 

**** I need more tools...


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## Desert Rat (Nov 22, 2020)

TheNewMexican said:


> Lot's of good info in the previous posts. "Dust Collection" made me think that this is maybe a combination wood / metal shop? Here's how I went about creating a starter set for both;
> 
> *Wood Shop*
> - Purchased a 10HP rotary phase converter. This opened my world up to nice, vintage, industrial 3 phase machines.
> ...


Nothing runs like the heavy vintage cast stuff. Might be overkill, but ya...

Nice looking bench too. I've never seen a leg vice with a crank on it like that, did you fabricate it.

I don't have anything fancy but here is my woodworking leg vice that serves my purposes. I traded for a vintage screw and scrounged the rest. Quick, fast down and dirty type of thing.


[/url


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## captaincaed (Nov 22, 2020)

Love a good vise. Having one that doesn't rack is so.underrated.


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## TheNewMexican (Nov 27, 2020)

Desert Rat said:


> I've never seen a leg vice with a crank on it like that, did you fabricate it.



It was a kit I purchased. Really cool the way it works, the vice floats parallel in and out. Take a look.







Really liked the picture of your vice. A lot of character, time and work on those jaws.


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## TheNewMexican (Nov 27, 2020)

double post.....


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## Desert Rat (Dec 1, 2020)

TheNewMexican said:


> It was a kit I purchased. Really cool the way it works, the vice floats parallel in and out. Take a look.
> 
> View attachment 104498
> 
> ...


Now that is sweet. Looks like the threads are pretty fast too. Mine has the old fashion peg board that I almost never move, but if I did it would be a pain. I don't like to bend down.


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## captaincaed (Dec 1, 2020)

The Sjoberg vise is a fairly inexpensive end vise that doesn't rack, no bending over. 








Sjoberg Adjustable Vise


The Sjöberg Adjustable Vise is my favorite production vise and it fits most workbenches. These are the vises that I use on all Training Workshop benches. Find out why its the best at RobCosman.com by watching our product videos, seeing our detailed pictures, reading our in-depth product...




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