# Miyabi birchwood gyuto



## evilgawd (Jan 25, 2017)

Hi 

Ive notice that most of you hate henckels/shun/wusthof/etc all the "big brand" and I can understand for the most part as I have a handmade knife and lots of german knifes and its night and day. I do have the Miyabi birchwood petty and to my surprise its performing very well . 

My question is , other then "for the price you can get better" , why wouldn't you recommend the miyabi birchwood ? If you could get your hand on one for a decent price would you pass or go for it ? 

Im not really in need for a new knife but you know  *addict* 
Considering i really like the petty im tempted to go for it but if i should stay away from the big brand and get a "logical" reason not to go for it , id like to hear it 

Awaiting feedback

Thanks


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## daveb (Jan 25, 2017)

I've used more than a few and find universally the handle is too small for the knife and that there is not enough clearance for me to hold knife and do board work. (Important characteristic for a chef or gyuto) And the knife has more belly than I do. In short (and in my opinion) the Miyabi is Henckel's attempt to be in the Japanese Knife market. Not particularly well executed. Yawn.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jan 25, 2017)

Haven't handled them - how is the weight balance?

But realistically, I'd be more tempted by a Shibata or Echizen Uchihamono when it comes to SG2 in that price range


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## Ruso (Jan 25, 2017)

I can say that I dig the look. Was very close to buy a petty but then funds.....


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## evilgawd (Jan 25, 2017)

Im remote to any decent knife shop ( well there is one but its out of budget) anyhow , i cannot hold any of those knifes . 
Daveb : thats the first time i hear that comment about the handle ... now it makes me wonder 

The shibata is a fine knife but unfortunately price wise I can get the miyabi for much less. I could get my hand on the 8" for 180$usd ( shibata would be 100$ more)


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## chinacats (Jan 25, 2017)

I believe a large amount of the cost if the knife in this case goes to marketing. I also believe you get what you pay for and I'd personally rather not pay too much toward marketing.

Buy a Tanaka from James


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jan 25, 2017)

...and with Zwilling/Myabi i'd be more tempted by either the MC66 based ones (and/or Cermax) - since WHEN they are on sale, they are the cheapest ZDP option around!, or the FC61 based ones.


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## evilgawd (Jan 25, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> ...and with Zwilling/Myabi i'd be more tempted by either the MC66 based ones (and/or Cermax) - since WHEN they are on sale, they are the cheapest ZDP option around!, or the FC61 based ones.



So 180$ for the miyabi birchwood is not a good deal ?


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## Ruso (Jan 25, 2017)

$180 for what knife/size?


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## evilgawd (Jan 25, 2017)

Gyuto 8" 
https://www.miyabi-knives.com/uk/en/series/knives/miyabi_5000mcd.html


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## daveb (Jan 25, 2017)

evilgawd said:


> So 180$ for the miyabi birchwood is not a good deal ?



You could buy a knife for that kind of money


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## Ruso (Jan 25, 2017)

evilgawd said:


> Gyuto 8"
> https://www.miyabi-knives.com/uk/en/series/knives/miyabi_5000mcd.html



If you like it's aesthetics sounds fair to me as long as you understand that its not best bank for your buck since you are paying marketing overhead as well.


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## richard (Jan 25, 2017)

That it is a good buy for that price. A Takamura R2 would outperform it for a bit less, but it doesn't have the same level of bling, and performance-wise the Miyabi is definitely no slouch.

The handle size and knuckle clearance are not generous, but if you don't have thick hands, you'll be fine. I use and happily use knives that have even less clearance than the Miyabi.


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## fujiyama (Jan 25, 2017)

I'd go for it! Birchwood is a nice knife.


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## chinacats (Jan 25, 2017)

miyabi said:


> I'd go for it! Birchwood is a nice knife.



no offense, but w. your username I don't believe anyone would expect differently:rofl2:


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## fujiyama (Jan 25, 2017)

chinacats said:


> no offense, but w. your username I don't believe anyone would expect differently:rofl2:


:laugh: No offense taken. Funny thing is, I no longer own any Miyabi knives. I did try most of them though and would buy the Birchwood line if it was on sale.


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## richard (Jan 25, 2017)

The word does have separate meaning in Japanese language and culture

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyabi


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## bkultra (Jan 25, 2017)

I guess naming the knife line Wabi-sabi doesn't have the same ring to it


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## richard (Jan 25, 2017)

Sounds like a good name for a joke wasabi-spiked alcoholic drink though. Bartender, a Wabi-sabi for my friend here


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## lancep (Jan 26, 2017)

There are also the Miyabi Mizu and Artisan lines, both also use SG2. Usually a bit cheaper. 8 inch gyutos available for around $150. They have a hammered look, rather than damascus, for the blade, but the core steel and heat treatment appear the same as the birchwood.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jan 26, 2017)

@richard I would say the meaning of that word actually fits the aesthetics of the epynomous products very well.

"Miyabi tried to stay away from the rustic and crude, and in doing so, prevented the traditionally trained courtiers from expressing real feelings in their works" that means it won't fit ME


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## richard (Jan 26, 2017)

lancep said:


> There are also the Miyabi Mizu and Artisan lines, both also use SG2. Usually a bit cheaper. 8 inch gyutos available for around $150. They have a hammered look, rather than damascus, for the blade, but the core steel and heat treatment appear the same as the birchwood.



Those have a thicker grind than the Birchwood, and are heavier


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## evilgawd (Jan 26, 2017)

Im torn here ... 

I do like the Miyabi birchwood look , havent handle the gyuto but the petty is very nice and havent had to sharpen it yet ... on the other hand , i do understand its a more commercial product versus something handmade by an artisan and its not mass produced. 

This will likely be my last knife for a little while so while I do get a very good deal on this knife,I am wondering if I will regret not putting more money on a better knife in the long run 

Im not a professional cook so im leaning toward I should just go with the deal ... 


ARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!! 

Question : Ive never had to sharpen SG2 blade - any feedback on this ? 

Again huge thanks to all who contributed to this thread


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## Ruso (Jan 26, 2017)

There is nothing wrong on buying things based on the looks as long as you know/care about the downsides.
You do not need to spend much more on perhaps a better knife, there are several good options around $200 mark. It does not mean you will like how they look or feel the "connection". They will just be a better performers.

When I bought my first expensive knife, I thought the same, no more for a while. The while lasted less than 4 months )


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## richard (Jan 26, 2017)

I like sharpening SG2. What stones do you have?


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## evilgawd (Jan 26, 2017)

Ruso : issue is I just bought a few knifes recently and wife would likely try to stab me with one of them if i buy another one  
I really like the petty , but again as I mentioned , i cannot hold and feel the gyuto ... and as with every good thing , price doesn't always reflect quality and/or personal preference 

Richard : I use JNS 1000 MATUKUSUYAMA + JNS 6000 MATUKUSUYAMA
I also have a zwilling 250/100 , but its very coarse so really only if things go south


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## richard (Jan 26, 2017)

OK I don't think you should have any issues with sharpening it with what you have. The handle of the Birchwood 8" feels very good, and it has a good balance/feel overall. I think it's definitely not a bad choice. Since you're in Canada, in general knives are more expensive to get there.


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## evilgawd (Jan 26, 2017)

Yes there are more expensive , this is why im pretty tempted by this deal even if it wouldn't be my #1 choice ... but everything that id want is at least 100$ more expensive ( likely more )


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## fatboylim (Jan 26, 2017)

So, a couple of reasons why not to buy Miyabi vs. the many suggested knives here. 
A) Miyabi is a mass produced knife that should be much cheaper but for marketing costs and flashy handle. Better to get a hand made quality knife. 
B) whilst looking at the R2 spec, it means nothing if the heat treatment is poor. Not to say the Miyabi is poor, but mass produced knives are less likely to pick up bad ones. Better to go a hand made knife that a master smith has spent decades perfecting the heat treatment. Some stick to only one metal type because heat treatment is so important and difficult to produce at high quality. 
C) if you like the handle so much, get a custom handle once you have found your wonder knife! 

Just some thoughts.

In that price range get a Takamura R2 Migaki with red handle. If it sings to you, upgrade the handle.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jan 26, 2017)

@faboylim upgrade it? I think the Takamura red has one of the most elegant yo handles ever....


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## valgard (Jan 26, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @faboylim upgrade it? I think the Takamura red has one of the most elegant yo handles ever....


lus1: It may not be some rare material but the handle looks pretty sweet to me.


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## Ruso (Jan 26, 2017)

If $180 was in Canadian $, I think you should snatch it. Its like 135USD.

Just to be a devil's advocate:


> A) Miyabi is a mass produced knife that should be much cheaper but for marketing costs and flashy handle. Better to get a hand made quality knife.


Flashy handles cost money (see custom handle prices), dammy finish comes at cost as well. RnD+QA aint free either.... And obviously marketing cost. At the end of the day I doubt that this knife made by a single smith would be sold at lesser price.



> B) whilst looking at the R2 spec, it means nothing if the heat treatment is poor. Not to say the Miyabi is poor, but mass produced knives are less likely to pick up bad ones. Better to go a hand made knife that a master smith has spent decades perfecting the heat treatment. Some stick to only one metal type because heat treatment is so important and difficult to produce at high quality.


Not necessary. Mas produced quality blades can be heat treated quite well. This companies have access to very expensive technology. It's not a secret that some custom makers send their blades to professional heat treatment facilities to achieve best result.


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## fujiyama (Jan 26, 2017)

Considering the sale price of the Miyabi, the bang for your buck argument is invalid. The heat treat is also great on these knives (unlike Shun). 

Rehandling knives is expensive. I do recommend it but not on a budget. 

If you plan to use this knife in a professional kitchen everyday for many years, be aware that the finish will suffer. It won't be pretty forever and the logos may wear off.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jan 26, 2017)

Bang for the buck wise, I'd say go whole hog for an MC66/MD67 version


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## Knifefan (Jan 27, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> So, a couple of reasons why not to buy Miyabi vs. the many suggested knives here.
> A) Miyabi is a mass produced knife that should be much cheaper but for marketing costs and flashy handle. Better to get a hand made quality knife.
> B) whilst looking at the R2 spec, it means nothing if the heat treatment is poor. Not to say the Miyabi is poor, but mass produced knives are less likely to pick up bad ones. Better to go a hand made knife that a master smith has spent decades perfecting the heat treatment. Some stick to only one metal type because heat treatment is so important and difficult to produce at high quality.
> C) if you like the handle so much, get a custom handle once you have found your wonder knife!
> ...



The belief of quite a few posting here in the forums, that "mass" produced knives are not as good a value as the niche brands with a "handmade" image, is misguided. What is correct is that for products of popular brands like Shun of Miyabi or in any other product category, the difference between production cost and consumer price is higher. But this is not because of marketing costs, but since more parties are involved in the distribution chain, with all of them marking up the price. And it is usually not the manufacturer, but the retailer who is getting the biggest piece of the pie.

However, this is more than compensated by scale merits in series production. Anyone with some knowledge of manufacturing can tell you that production costs are very different if you produce 1, 10, 100 or 1000 pieces, and purchasing prices for material too. That's the reason why, when looking at the pure specifications of a product, the Shuns and Miyabis often offer more "bang for the buck" than most of the products that are popular in the forums. Can you get a similar knife like the Birchwood, with 101-layer SG2 blade and curly birch handle, at a lower price from JCK, CKTG or others? Probably not. So why then should the Birchwood be much cheaper?

Performance is yet another dimension. The above Takamura probably is not a worse cutter than the Birchwood. But with a 3 layer blade R2 (= SG2) blade and a Pakka handle, it's a much more simple specd and cheaper to produce product. To those that don't need the bling, the Takamura probably is a better value. But that is a subjective judgement, that doesn't automatically make the likes of a Birchwood a poor value.

Regarding heat treatment, yes, some artisan makers have perfected heat treatment over years. But actually heat treatment is not something miraculous, but a science that can be understood and applied. And large manufacturers have the ability to work with scientists and install equipment in their factories to guarantee good heat treatment, an option that many small manufacturers don't have.

The "underappreciation" in this forum of mass produced knives, which was the question that started this thread, is somewhat understandable, as people usually favour the underdog, the small boutique manufacturers, and are looking for something different that not everyone can easily buy. But looking at facts, it's not always deserved.


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## evilgawd (Jan 27, 2017)

Interesting post Knifefan - hearing from the "other side"


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## Chef_ (Jan 27, 2017)

I bought a miyabi birchwood 240 just for the looks. Its laughable to say i would ever recommend buying this knife for any practical reason. It is overpriced, and performance is very underwhelming . This knife is pure aesthetics. 

I guessi if youre upgrading from a wusthof or even a global, then youll be wowed by this knife, but compared to my gesshin, konosuke, masamoto, its bottom shelf in performance.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jan 27, 2017)

One could even consider it more of a crossgrade than upgrade: W and G are the top of the line of what is "sold in every second store" in their respective styles, and so is the M


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## fatboylim (Jan 27, 2017)

Knifefan said:


> The belief of quite a few posting here in the forums, that "mass" produced knives are not as good a value as the niche brands with a "handmade" image, is misguided. What is correct is that for products of popular brands like Shun of Miyabi or in any other product category, the difference between production cost and consumer price is higher. But this is not because of marketing costs, but since more parties are involved in the distribution chain, with all of them marking up the price. And it is usually not the manufacturer, but the retailer who is getting the biggest piece of the pie.
> 
> However, this is more than compensated by scale merits in series production. Anyone with some knowledge of manufacturing can tell you that production costs are very different if you produce 1, 10, 100 or 1000 pieces, and purchasing prices for material too. That's the reason why, when looking at the pure specifications of a product, the Shuns and Miyabis often offer more "bang for the buck" than most of the products that are popular in the forums. Can you get a similar knife like the Birchwood, with 101-layer SG2 blade and curly birch handle, at a lower price from JCK, CKTG or others? Probably not. So why then should the Birchwood be much cheaper?
> 
> ...



It seems Miyabi users are overly defensive... Well there is always a self justification... horses for courses I guess.

Perhaps, I am no better in self justifying hand made vs. mass produced.


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## evilgawd (Jan 27, 2017)

Chef : Konosuke up here in Canada is more 500$CAD VS 240$ CAD for the Miyabi birchwood - so one would likely not doubt its a better knife 
Im using mostly a Toku Atsurai ( handmade ) santoku , henckels four star chef knife for anything rough , then i have a bunch of crappier knifes + Miyabi birchwood petty


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## fatboylim (Jan 27, 2017)

Hey, I still have Globals from 14 years ago that I still use as beater knives. But they have no comparison to my hand made blades.


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## aboynamedsuita (Jan 27, 2017)

I have the birchwood Parer and like it. Mine has a really nice handle (lots of eyes), but be aware if ordering online that the aesthetics of the handles can vary significantly I've seen some that almost look like plain ho wood. The miyabi handles are relatively heavy compared to a traditional J knife which may or may not be a concern for you.


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## evilgawd (Jan 28, 2017)

Yup actually bought the same knife because of your recommendation and I have to say im really happy with it . That being said , ive never handled/tested the birchwood gyuto and no one carries it around me ... 
So buying it off the internet is a big gamble 

1- Will i like the handle/feel 
2- Will blade thickness bother me ? 
My main knife is under ~1.75mm at the spine , while from the review ive seen the birchwood is just over 2mm . Will it make a real difference or am I just making a huge deal with "tech spec" ? 

This will be my go to knife when I need to cut down larger batch of veggies , while for everyday ill likely keep using the handmade santoku 

So if i recap , Miyabi is mass produced ( could be bad or good depending on the POV ) , likely overpriced due to marketing ( but im getting a good deal to this doesn't really matters) , so its either i go for it at 180$ and take a gamble or wait and stack some more $$ and get something a little bit better ( as Im in Canada , handmade knife a much more expensive ) 

Wow didnt think id generate 5 pages on this lol - again thanks to everyone who chipped in , im sure it will help other newbies like me in the future


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## Ruso (Jan 28, 2017)

So what did you decide?


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## Chef_ (Jan 28, 2017)

if its 180 dollars id buy it in a heartbeat, considering it retails for $330 here.


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## richard (Jan 28, 2017)

1. No one can say for sure if you will like the feel in hand/handle other than yourself. My 2 cents that I find this knife pretty comfortable for a D handle, but I will say that you like large handles and lots of blade height/knuckle clearance, this is NOT your knife. Other folks should be fine. As for the overall feel/balance, I think it's better than their Miyabi's other 8" knives, which are heavier overall or more handle heavy. This one is balanced at the bolster and weighs around 5.7 oz or so.

2. Spine thickness measurements don't really tell you very much. I have a Blazen that is over 3 mm at the spine near the bolster, but it is thinner behind the edge than the Miyabi Birchwood. But the Birchwood, while not as thin as lasers like the Takamura R2, is still pretty thin and I consider in the laser territory. So in short, you won't be bothered by thickness/wedging.


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## drsmp (May 4, 2018)

I really like my Birchwood 8 Gyuto. The D-shaped handle is comfortable and the blade takes and keeps a good edge. Yes you could likely get a better performing but plain Jane hand made Gyuto. A hand made SG2 Damascus with a custom handle would easily cost 2-3x as much as the Birchwood. I got a great price on eBay and was able to pick a handle with a very nice pattern. I agree that the handle on the 9.5  Gyuto is undersized (the same handle as the 8). I sold mine and purchased a used 240 Kurosaki R2 also on eBay.


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