# Help Choosing My First Nakiri



## Dave Kinogie (Dec 28, 2013)

What's up guys?

This is my first post and I'm sorry I'm sure threads like these are done to death but I'm looking to absorb as much information as possible and hear as many of your personal opinions as possible on as many knives as possible. Possible. 

[video=youtube;Wcz_kDCBTBk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcz_kDCBTBk[/video]

OK, so with that out of the way, I had searched the forums for similar threads and found some, but I just wanted to list some stuff about myself in relation to my relationship with knives. 

Firstly, I am an at home only cook at this point. In the past I had several years of experience in the food service industry including deli, cold side, prep, line cooking, saute, corporate catering, etc. I am by no means an actual chef or school trained, but I have pretty good knife skills and overall food knowledge. I really just enjoy cooking and have developed a bug for knives the last few years, but my collection is still quite meager and pedestrian. 

My sharpening abilities and stone collection go like this... One King combo stone, 1000/6000 grit that I just got a couple months ago and have used on 3 different knives a total of 5 times. I am fully willing to learn and improve through listening and watching others that know and through experience and will soon add a low grit stone and a stropping setup. I also own an Idahone ceramic honing steel, had that for years. Basically I have no sharpening abilities or stone collection haha.

I'm still apprehensive about sharpening although it felt relatively natural doing it and I think I got pretty good and consistent results all things considered such as being a complete noob. But I'll continue to practice on my cheaper knives before putting any expensive ones I may soon acquire to the stones. That is my only real current apprehension, worrying about messing it up if it were an expensive one. 


So my current "collection" of knives goes like this:

Tojiro DP Gyuto 240(just sold it)
Shun Classic 6 Inch Chef Knife
Richmond Artifex Wa-Gyuto 240(one with the Fujiwara FKM steel)
Global GS38 Paring Knife
Chicago Cutlery Walnut Bread Knife


So let me segue into Nakiri's... I recently bought a good friend a White #1 Nakiri for Christmas and got a chance to use it and really loved the style of knife. I've already been looking to grab a carbon blade, but that made me decide to jump in with a Nakiri for now. 


I'm looking to spend between say $90 to $200. I'd prefer to stay right in between that range, but if it wound up a knife was such great value and aesthetically pleasing at the bottom end, or so sweet at the top end of the range, I can dig. 


I prefer Blue steel, but am not opposed to a White. I'd really like to dive right in with an Aogami Super, but it's certainly not a requirement. 


A nice handle is a requirement. I'm not looking to get a knife I'm going to want to spend all sorts of money getting re-handled soon after buying it. I prefer a Wa style, but it's not a requirement. Something like a Bubinga wood, would be awesome, I prefer an in between darker, but again, not a flat out deal breaker. 

I'd like a 160-165mm. 

Prefer it's not a very tall knife. Around 50mm tall would be preferable.

Prefer a lighter knife, or more so prefer it's not a heavy knife.

Thinner blade preferred, something with good grinds that doesn't wedge much. 


I was leaning heavily towards a Moritaka in the Aogami Super, but I'm finding myself deterred after google searches lead me back here with a lot of issues on their blades exhibiting holes after sharpening's. On a cheap knife I would chalk it up to an oh well first time, but spending $150+ and having a knife that's really defective with suspect customer service only a year or two down the road isn't so appealing. 


So instead of listing the others I was looking at, I'd rather hear your suggestions and some in depth talk on them without influencing the thread one way or the other name dropping.


I am also not ruling out the Moritaka, but I definitely don't want this to turn into a full blown Moritaka thread. 


Thanks in advance guys and sorry for the long winded post that ultimately just asks the same thing that's probably asked 10 times a week on here, bear with me.


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (Dec 28, 2013)

Welcome to KKF, Dave.

My suggestion is the Zakuri 165 mm nakiri from Japanese Knife Imports: http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...akuri-165mm-aogami-super-kurouchi-nakiri.html

I own a Zakuri wa-sujihiki, and it is a good cutter. I'd expect the nakiri to be the same. It doesn't meet your "no ho" criterion, though it is aogami super.

Another one to consider is a 165 nakiri in aogami by Takeo Murata, sold by The Epicurean Edge: http://epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=91730

I've got a sabaki that he made, and I'm impressed by it.

Rick


----------



## XooMG (Dec 28, 2013)

I'd wait for Maksim to come back from his trip, then ask him to rehandle an Itinomon nakiri. Actually I'm sure there are lots of decent midrange knives in this space, but that's the one I'd likely go for.


----------



## sachem allison (Dec 29, 2013)

welcome!


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Dec 29, 2013)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Welcome to KKF, Dave.
> 
> My suggestion is the Zakuri 165 mm nakiri from Japanese Knife Imports: http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...akuri-165mm-aogami-super-kurouchi-nakiri.html
> 
> ...


Thanks Tiger!

And yeah the Zakuri was one I had shifted some attention to after reading some of the negative stuff on the Moritaka's.

I had planned on ordering one by tonight but at this point I'm going to give it a few days or so, keep researching and checking this thread.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Dec 29, 2013)

XooMG said:


> I'd wait for Maksim to come back from his trip, then ask him to rehandle an Itinomon nakiri. Actually I'm sure there are lots of decent midrange knives in this space, but that's the one I'd likely go for.



Dude haha, that knife alone is right around the top of my range and then you want me to send it to a top wood worker?

Sure that would be an amazing knife, but then we're getting into some serious cheese!

Thanks for the suggestion though.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Dec 29, 2013)

sachem allison said:


> welcome!



Thanks sachem!

Any suggestions on knives?


----------



## XooMG (Dec 29, 2013)

Dave Kinogie said:


> Dude haha, that knife alone is right around the top of my range and then you want me to send it to a top wood worker?
> 
> Sure that would be an amazing knife, but then we're getting into some serious cheese!
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion though.


The price of the knife excluding European VAT is under $160, and a fresh handle would put you close to your limit, but Maksim mounted my Itinomon gyuto with a burned chestnut handle gratis. Worth considering anyway.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Dec 29, 2013)

XooMG said:


> The price of the knife excluding European VAT is under $160, and a fresh handle would put you close to your limit, but Maksim mounted my Itinomon gyuto with a burned chestnut handle gratis. Worth considering anyway.



Well it's like $157 for the knife, but then $43 for shipping to Maksim. Then the price of the handle(what type of ballpark averages are we talking for that?) and then the price of shipping to me. So $200 + price of the re-handling + maybe $10ish for the additional shipping.


----------



## Timthebeaver (Dec 29, 2013)

Dave Kinogie said:


> Well it's like $157 for the knife, but then $43 for shipping to Maksim. Then the price of the handle(what type of ballpark averages are we talking for that?) and then the price of shipping to me. So $200 + price of the re-handling + maybe $10ish for the additional shipping.



You misunderstand. Maksim is the seller of the Itinomonn knife, he will rehandle it before shipping it to you if you want. I believe he offers worldwide free shipping as well. The burnt chestnut handles he sells are very nice, as are his knives.


----------



## Talim (Dec 29, 2013)

This is the one they're talking about http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kurouchi-165mm-wa-nakiri/. Then you can have one of these put in if you wanted to http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/octagonal-chestnut-wa-handle/.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Dec 29, 2013)

Talim said:


> This is the one they're talking about http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kurouchi-165mm-wa-nakiri/. Then you can have one of these put in if you wanted to http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/octagonal-chestnut-wa-handle/.



Yeah but again... then $191 for the knife and handle, plus $43 for shipping to the US, then whatever that guy Maksim charges to install it, plus shipping from him back to me. 

To get free shipping from that site it's I think about $225 USD in merchandise purchase, so even then if I can just find a nicer handle or knife blade combo that comes to that, it's $225, plus whatever Maksim charges, plus shipping from him to me. 

What does he charge just to re-handle anyway? 

Even if it's super cheap, I'm getting above $250 for sure and $200 was the tip top of my range right now, shipping and everything included. 

One day I'd love to get to the point where I have some really expensive knives in my collection but right not I can't go that high, plus I would start with a Gyuto on my really expensive endeavors.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Dec 29, 2013)

Timthebeaver said:


> You misunderstand. Maksim is the seller of the Itinomonn knife, he will rehandle it before shipping it to you if you want. I believe he offers worldwide free shipping as well. The burnt chestnut handles he sells are very nice, as are his knives.



Doh!

My bad Talim, I did not see this reply before mine to your post. :O :laugh:

Alright so maybe I can get close to my target price, although this is still the high end.

Can you guys just give me a little low down on the Itinomonn blades and why you recommend them?


----------



## Timthebeaver (Dec 29, 2013)

1. Maksim is a noted sharpener, hence he understands geometry, and the knives he sells are made to his spec (e.g. Kato, Itinomonn, Yoshikane etc.), all have a reputation as excellent cutters.

2. I haven't seen a negative view of an Itinomonn, on the contrary several members have praised them very highly.


----------



## Brad Gibson (Dec 29, 2013)

Timthebeaver said:


> 1. Maksim is a noted sharpener, hence he understands geometry, and the knives he sells are made to his spec (e.g. Kato, Itinomonn, Yoshikane etc.), all have a reputation as excellent cutters.
> 
> 2. I haven't seen a negative view of an Itinomonn, on the contrary several members have praised them very highly.



I highly recommend a shigefusa
KU nikiri. Mine is an excellent performer and the steel is amazing


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Dec 30, 2013)

Think I might just wait for something interesting to pop up on the classifieds, hopefully something like a Shigefusa, Moritaka from someone on the up and up, a Konosuke, maybe a Zakuri with a custom handle, something like that.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Dec 30, 2013)

The Zakuri AS already has a nice Octagon handle wt. Buff. horn collar.Yo can always darken the Ho wood if you like.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Dec 30, 2013)

Noob question, how do I go about darkening the wood? Just constant oiling?


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Dec 30, 2013)

I like minwax golden pecan stain on Ho wood.It is good to give the handle a lite sand wt a 220 grit & clean well before appying stain.After stain dry's.I use a 50/50 mix pure tung oil & bullseye clear shellac.The shellac speeds up the drying of the Tung oil & leaves a nice finish.After a few coats(one coat per day)let it dry couple days & buff.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 6, 2014)

keithsaltydog said:


> I like minwax golden pecan stain on Ho wood.It is good to give the handle a lite sand wt a 220 grit & clean well before appying stain.After stain dry's.I use a 50/50 mix pure tung oil & bullseye clear shellac.The shellac speeds up the drying of the Tung oil & leaves a nice finish.After a few coats(one coat per day)let it dry couple days & buff.


Sorry for the delayed response and thanks. Hmm... I never thought about just staining the handle. TBH though I have none of these at my disposal and then I'm getting into at least around an additional $40 for the stain, oil and shellac and likely more, plus a brush, sand paper, etc., although then I'd obviously have this stuff on hand for future use for whatever else.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 6, 2014)

So I've procrastinated some on this and have yet to buy a nakiri over a month after posting this thread, but have been reading forums and reviews here and there and gave it some more thought and I might just jump in with something a little more pricey over my original budget or right at the top of it.


What are the forums' thoughts on the following knives?

Shigefusa
Takeda Classic Bocho
Konosuke HD2
Moritaka Aogami Super(can't give this one up even with the QC issues lol)


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

Anyone got anything on any of the above?


----------



## erikz (Feb 7, 2014)

I own a Takeda custom AS Nakiri. Its about 40mm longer and 9mm taller compared to the standard sized Nakiri. 
My Nakiri is very thin, I'd say laser thin, and goes through any veg without wedging. Almost no stiction. It was razor sharp OOTB and only had a touch up with a 4k EP chosera.

Very pleased with this blade. You could ask Xoomg about the standard sized Takeda Nakiri he owns. Also Classic AS if I remember correctly.

Edit - here are some shots: http://www.flickr.com/photos/afstoppen/sets/72157638413015806/


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks man. Yeah, those Takeda's are just sick looking and seem to have a great rep, especially the nakiri's. That thread by Dave Martell gets me a little spooked but I've been meaning to ask if it's a widespread problem or just an isolated incident or two that some are jumping the gun on?


----------



## daveb (Feb 7, 2014)

I owned a KU finished Shig Nakiri for a little while. Nice knife, nice price for the KU. At 210 it was a little big for me. At the price point you're shopping you might put a no frills Carter on your wish list.


----------



## jamaster14 (Feb 7, 2014)

erikz said:


> I own a Takeda custom AS Nakiri. Its about 40mm longer and 9mm taller compared to the standard sized Nakiri.
> My Nakiri is very thin, I'd say laser thin, and goes through any veg without wedging. Almost no stiction. It was razor sharp OOTB and only had a touch up with a 4k EP chosera.
> 
> Very pleased with this blade. You could ask Xoomg about the standard sized Takeda Nakiri he owns. Also Classic AS if I remember correctly.
> ...



whats the height on that?


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 7, 2014)

I think my chance of owning a Shig at the moment is in a nakiri since they are priced so well or a Carter maybe?


----------



## mhlee (Feb 7, 2014)

Why are you only considering AS nakiris besides the Shigefusa?


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

daveb said:


> At the price point you're shopping you might put a no frills Carter on your wish list.



Yes! Was so thinking of this haha!


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

mhlee said:


> Why are you only considering AS nakiris besides the Shigefusa?



Aogami Super? I'm still noob, is this what you mean? If so the HD2 is a proprietary white steel with cladding, no?


----------



## toddnmd (Feb 7, 2014)

You'll have to be fast to get a Carter nakiri. 

HD2 is a semi-stainless (~8% chromium) steel that many think sharpens close to carbon, but isn't as need as carbon.


----------



## Bill13 (Feb 7, 2014)

I will vote for the Watanabe nakiri, have one and love it!


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

toddnmd said:


> You'll have to be fast to get a Carter nakiri.


Yeah, I just assumed I'd have to email him or whatever and order one and wait, or get lucky on the Buy/Sell/Trade board on a nice second hand one. 



> HD2 is a semi-stainless (~8% chromium) steel that many think sharpens close to carbon, but isn't as need as carbon.


Aah true, been looking at so many knives recently I'm overwhelmed.

I'm still thinking about just copping an entry level high end Gyuto (say $250 to $350 range) whether new or B/S/T Board and waiting for the Shigefusa's to comeback in stock in a few months, or even then just copping a nice little $60 to $100 nakiri to tide me over then selling it for like 75%-ish of what I bought it for when the Shig's come in.


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 7, 2014)

sounds like a good idea get your feet wet young padawan!


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

Bill13 said:


> I will vote for the Watanabe nakiri, have one and love it!


IDK if I'm just dumb and silly, but I've googled these and never does a link come up to buy one from a re-seller, just forum posts about them.

They are a unicorn!


----------



## toddnmd (Feb 7, 2014)

Not really. You can order one directly. Website says "in stock."


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

toddnmd said:


> Not really. You can order one directly. Website says "in stock."



I is stoopid.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

Those are really nice though. They're clean and dignified looking. What kind of steel are they and how do people like them who own them?


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 7, 2014)

u can chose either white or blue


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> u can chose either white or blue



Yeah it says blue clad in stainless for the 165mm pro, but is that #1, #2, or Super? 

They're like $210 plus shipping though. They are really nice but I think I'd prefer the Konosuke or the Takeda at that price point or continue to wait for something interesting on the B/S/T board, maybe even just cop something like a Kochi Migaki gyuto and a cheap nakiri.


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 7, 2014)

sounds good to me friend


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 7, 2014)

that Kochi looks pretty sweet to me


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> that Kochi looks pretty sweet to me


Yeah it's super tempting. 

It looks like it has a sizable belly though, not sure if I love that or not.


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 7, 2014)

very indecisive ehhh


----------



## insomniac (Feb 7, 2014)

I'd recommend the Yoshiaki Fujiwara or Heiji Nakiris. Heiji can come in semi-carbon or Swedish. The Kato is a carbon but my experience with them is they are pretty resistant. I think they're both pretty reasonably priced for very reputable makers.

If you must have AS, I've only tried Denka from Teruyasu Fujiwara which is a great knife somewhat on the heavier side... but pricey.

Aogami Super is on paper more stain resistant and durable than traditional carbons but results will vary from maker to maker, so I would take material in itself with a grain of salt... and instead stick to guys with a good rep.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

insomniac said:


> I'd recommend the Yoshiaki Fujiwara or Heiji Nakiris. Heiji can come in semi-carbon or Swedish. The Kato is a carbon but my experience with them is they are pretty resistant. I think they're both pretty reasonably priced for very reputable makers.
> 
> If you must have AS, I've only tried Denka from Teruyasu Fujiwara which is a great knife somewhat on the heavier side... but pricey.
> 
> Aogami Super is on paper more stain resistant and durable than traditional carbons but results will vary from maker to maker, so I would take material in itself with a grain of salt... and instead stick to guys with a good rep.


I will check these out as well and I'm honestly not hung up on AS, just want something carbon.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> very indecisive ehhh



Was I playing with you on 888 last night? :biggrin:


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 7, 2014)

Dave Kinogie said:


> Was I playing with you on 888 last night? :biggrin:



No idea what that is LOL


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 7, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> No idea what that is LOL



Poker site, someone in one of the tourneys had basically the same screen name haha.


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 7, 2014)

oh I hear ya not me that's for sure


----------



## XooMG (Feb 7, 2014)

If I were to do this nakiri thing over again, I would be reluctant to get a Takeda for the price. If they were under $200 and I could check them out before buying, sure. The better ones are very thin all the way to the spine and have a cross section that is good at preventing sticking. I recently sharpened mine and thinned the bevel a bit to reduce (but not eliminate) the convexity of the edge and hopefully ameliorate a little bit of wedging. I need to test it later but it should be a pretty fine cutter.

If I were starting over, I'd probably go with an Itinomon or Shigefusa...Kato seems a little thicker than I'd want, but probably works fine. Watanabe might be a good option but I haven't seen its cross section. If I were going with Takeda again, I'd order one direct and specifically request a thin one.

Then again, some cheaper knives might compete well too. I am curious about the thinner Tosa pieces like the Zakuri Tosagata I've got on the way, or the Murata or Kumagoro or a number of other nakiri options.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 8, 2014)

XooMG said:


> If I were to do this nakiri thing over again, I would be reluctant to get a Takeda for the price. If they were under $200 and I could check them out before buying, sure. The better ones are very thin all the way to the spine and have a cross section that is good at preventing sticking. I recently sharpened mine and thinned the bevel a bit to reduce (but not eliminate) the convexity of the edge and hopefully ameliorate a little bit of wedging. I need to test it later but it should be a pretty fine cutter.
> 
> If I were starting over, I'd probably go with an Itinomon or Shigefusa...Kato seems a little thicker than I'd want, but probably works fine. Watanabe might be a good option but I haven't seen its cross section. If I were going with Takeda again, I'd order one direct and specifically request a thin one.
> 
> Then again, some cheaper knives might compete well too. I am curious about the thinner Tosa pieces like the Zakuri Tosagata I've got on the way, or the Murata or Kumagoro or a number of other nakiri options.


Thanks for the reply. 

So the concerns are real with the Takeda...

And yeah, that's the type of honest review I was looking for. As in even if it isn't perfect it might still be good, but for the $260 it cost it might have issues it shouldn't because there is consistency problems from knife to knife, so it's probably wiser to just go with something cheaper that is likely to be at least equal to it or go with a different blade for the same coin. Maybe I'll get a shining example, maybe I won't, but if I don't have the present skills to re-profile maybe I'm better off avoiding it for something I won't feel burnt on if I have the bad luck of getting a subpar one. 


Anybody know anything about the Gassan blades?


----------



## XooMG (Feb 8, 2014)

I think if you go through Takeda direct instead of a vendor, you can communicate your priorities (though I recommend using short-form concise and direct English if you're not good with Japanese).

The grind shape is intentional and seems more optimized for thin slices where the convex pushes the slice away and the concave above prevents sticking. It really is not a cabbage head splitter or for larger segments of thick carrots. That can be said of the other high-end nakiri here as well...they are not merely anti-wedging knives...a laser gyuto is probably more optimized for that. The ones I mentioned will probably have an easier time going through wedgy-veggie, but not much easier and with slightly worse food release. I think the nakiri is a little misunderstood, though I'm certainly no expert.

The top knife in the pic below is my Takeda, the bottom is an Akifusa/Asai Hayabusa:






Looking closely, the Asai is thinner behind the edge and has a pretty straight flat grind. A few months ago my gut feeling would have been that the Asai is a better cutter. However, the Takeda seems to go through most things more easily. That may be due to stiction with the tall flat grind, which can be pretty severe. You'll notice on choil photos of the Shig, Itinomon, and other quality nakiri that the grind is interrupted by an angle change.

I don't know much about the geometry on cheaper nakiri, but I'm willing to bet some are excellent.


----------



## Brad Gibson (Feb 8, 2014)

The shigefusa nikiri, in my opinion, is the best option period. It has amazing steel and heat treat and comes with a very nice handle. Edge retention and sharpenability are very very good. If you want a nikiri I would get the shigefusa.


----------



## berko (Feb 8, 2014)

which shig nakiri are we talking about? can i get a link?


----------



## erikz (Feb 8, 2014)

berko said:


> which shig nakiri are we talking about? can i get a link?


I assume they are talking about the Kitaeji:"
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/shigefusa-kitaeji-nakiri-180mm/

Korouchi is also nice, but not as thin:
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/shigefusa-kurouchi-180mm-wa-nakiri/


----------



## toddnmd (Feb 8, 2014)

erikz said:


> I assume they are talking about the Kitaeji:"
> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/shigefusa-kitaeji-nakiri-180mm/
> 
> Korouchi is also nice, but not as thin:
> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/shigefusa-kurouchi-180mm-wa-nakiri/



I believe the OP started with a $150 budget, which could possibly be stretched a bit. KU is much more in that budget. I don't think a kitaeji would be a good choice for a first nakiri. I think you'd have to know that you like nakiris before investing that much in one. I tried a handful of nakiris that were decent, but none excited me. I have a Takeda that I'm happy with (though I still don't use it as much as my gyutos).


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 8, 2014)

toddnmd said:


> I believe the OP started with a $150 budget, which could possibly be stretched a bit. KU is much more in that budget. I don't think a kitaeji would be a good choice for a first nakiri. I think you'd have to know that you like nakiris before investing that much in one. I tried a handful of nakiris that were decent, but none excited me. I have a Takeda that I'm happy with (though I still don't use it as much as my gyutos).



Yeah, I am not sure if others were talking about the KU or not, but I was lol. The Kitaeji is beautiful but I'm not looking to spend over $500 on any knife right now, let alone my first nakiri. 

I got one of my best friends a cheaper white #1 nakiri as a Christmas gift this year and got to mess around with it and really enjoyed using it. I already wanted one and that sold me on it, just wanted to spend a little more on my own haha. 

I really am all over the place on price range and what not, but did really want to add an at least entry level high end knife to my collection and figured why not start with a nakiri? 

Like mentioned the last couple pages though, might just resort back to a $75 to $125 range nakiri for now and cop a premium gyuto. The Shig nakiris are pretty much sold out everywhere right now anyway, although I really like the look of and rep from word of mouth on the Takeda and the Kono HD2 with ebony handle, plus thinking about just looking into a Murray Carter. 


Still so confused right now haha.:laugh:


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 8, 2014)

XooMG said:


> I think if you go through Takeda direct instead of a vendor, you can communicate your priorities (though I recommend using short-form concise and direct English if you're not good with Japanese).
> 
> The grind shape is intentional and seems more optimized for thin slices where the convex pushes the slice away and the concave above prevents sticking. It really is not a cabbage head splitter or for larger segments of thick carrots. That can be said of the other high-end nakiri here as well...they are not merely anti-wedging knives...a laser gyuto is probably more optimized for that. The ones I mentioned will probably have an easier time going through wedgy-veggie, but not much easier and with slightly worse food release. I think the nakiri is a little misunderstood, though I'm certainly no expert.
> 
> ...



Hmm... see that was exactly what I was expecting to see with the Takeda from what I've read and other pics, thought that was the allure with them? But you said yours needed some legit work on the stones to get to look like this? That it wasn't as advertised when you received it?

I'm still very noobed up with the stones. Only used them one additional time since the OP ITT. I enjoy using them and will be gradually adding more stones and soon to make a strop setup and will be watching and reading more info on sharpening and continue to attempt to get better through practice on cheaper knives, but I'm nowhere near ready to be re-profiling and what not on my own. 

So with an expensive knife it's no big deal if I don't feel comfortable just touching them up immediately, cause I'll just use it as is and eventually when I'm comfortable enough I'll give them a run through, but I don't want to wind up with a knife that legitimately needs some mass experience skillset required work from it's first use just for it to cut and function as it was intended.


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 8, 2014)

Get a king 1k/6k combo stone and practice sharpening on there


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 8, 2014)

I'll just say it like this... I don't need to wind up with the perfect knife... right now I haven't experienced anything too sick so I'm sure I'll be happy with a lot of different knives. 

My first supercar doesn't need to be a Bugatti when I'm coming from a Civic with a turbocharger, a Ferrari is still a Ferrari and a Porsche is still a Porsche, they are amazing stand alone in their own right, I just don't want to wind up paying for Lambo and getting one that needs to be in the mechanic without putting a mile on it and the only mechanic around is me who can only do simply oil changes or sending it out for weeks at a high expense to the specialty shop. I'm even fine going with the domestic like a Vette or a G37 coupe which might not be exotic but has damn near all the speed and handling of them at half the price.

Hope that analogy worked.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 8, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> Get a king 1k/6k combo stone and practice sharpening on there


That's what I have haha. Have used it at this point 6 or 7 times on 4 or 5 different knives. I felt naturally pretty comfortable using it, I'm just far away from properly thinning out convexes and re-profiling and what not and even if I was proficient at it don't know how I feel about spending that much on steel which is advertised as some of the best around only to have to put extensive time and effort into getting it that way because it came mediocre and overall false claimed OOTB. Also then I would need to own a low grit stone to make these changes and a high grit stone and strop to finish the job as well right?

I am not saying these blades are bad in that manner, but I have read a number of people on these forums, most with their own personal pictures saying just that.


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 8, 2014)

I hear ya I am not too keen on the lower grit stones since I am into using naturals but you will need a low grit stone to set bevels and what not


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (Feb 8, 2014)

Dave Kinogie said:


> Yeah, I am not sure if others were talking about the KU or not, but I was lol. The Kitaeji is beautiful but I'm not looking to spend over $500 on any knife right now, let alone my first nakiri.
> 
> I got one of my best friends a cheaper white #1 nakiri as a Christmas gift this year and got to mess around with it and really enjoyed using it. I already wanted one and that sold me on it, just wanted to spend a little more on my own haha.
> 
> ...



Let me add to your confusion by recommending the Watanabe 180 nakiri - blue paper steel in stainless clad kurouchi:

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/nakkiri.htm

Rick


----------



## XooMG (Feb 8, 2014)

Dave Kinogie said:


> Hmm... see that was exactly what I was expecting to see with the Takeda from what I've read and other pics, thought that was the allure with them? But you said yours needed some legit work on the stones to get to look like this? That it wasn't as advertised when you received it?
> 
> I'm still very noobed up with the stones. Only used them one additional time since the OP ITT. I enjoy using them and will be gradually adding more stones and soon to make a strop setup and will be watching and reading more info on sharpening and continue to attempt to get better through practice on cheaper knives, but I'm nowhere near ready to be re-profiling and what not on my own.


I know where you're coming from, I think.

The Takeda pic I took was before I worked the bevels a little. It actually was not a wedge monster and is in fact a very thin knife overall...but it was not "fall through thick carrots" kind of thing. Actually, with the cross section, it was my best cutter for thin slices of carrot without any stickage. For the applications it's designed, it might be one of the best shapes out there, and it taught me a good deal about the usage of a nakiri.

I did not do any major work to it...the very edge was somewhat more convex than I liked and felt the bevel could be thinned a little, so I took it mostly to my 1k stone, laid it on the wide bevel, and just worked it down for a little while. No need to worry about handholding angles. I kept it a little convexed and redid the microbevels, which wasn't very hard.

Most of the problems folks have been having with Takeda are not with nakiri.

Still, I'm totally sympathetic about not wanting to modify out-of-the-box knives...especially very expensive ones. That's why I suggested Itinomon, which is very trouble-free, doesn't have a reputation for crazy reactivity, isn't as chunky as a Kato, and has a good "true nakiri" grind according to pics. Still, Murata and Kumagoro or Zakuri might well be brilliant; I haven't tried them.


----------



## toddnmd (Feb 8, 2014)

Dave Kinogie said:


> might just resort back to a $75 to $125 range nakiri for now and cop a premium gyuto.



This makes the most sense to me.


----------



## insomniac (Feb 8, 2014)

I've bought a Shigefusa santoku about a year back as a gift for a relative and had the opportunity to try it a few times... and I would say that while it just absolutely destroys root vegetables, it is a little more reactive than some other carbons if you plan to use it for everything. I'm not sure how much his Nakiris run these days but on the whole, I think Shigefusa product is being priced "where demand is"... i.e. a little out of the water, not to say it isn't great product, but I'm not sure if you want to start buying so close to the top of the range. You may also need to queue as some have mentioned...

The Murata is a very good value for the money imo if thats your aim. For Nakiri's specifically I actually only own a Kamata and a Shigeharu. Its not my favorite profile... I bought them as souvenirs. I actually use them as mini menkiri for pasta/noodles more often than anything else. They did teach me that kurouchi finishes wont last if you actually plan to use the knife though... so don't buy a KU for the aesthetic 

Given your criteria I think Konosuke HD2 is a good choice here as a balance of being easy to sharpen and easy to maintain while being bloody sharp. Perhaps you can also consider a Masamoto KK or even their lower lines if you want an affordable carbon? its a brand that has sort of lost popularity online due to being a larger enterprise, but I've always found their knives good all rounders performance-wise.


----------



## jamaster14 (Feb 10, 2014)

Brad Gibson said:


> The shigefusa nikiri, in my opinion, is the best option period. It has amazing steel and heat treat and comes with a very nice handle. Edge retention and sharpenability are very very good. If you want a nikiri I would get the shigefusa.



can you be more specific? are you referring to this knife
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/shigefusa-kitaeji-nakiri-180mm/

im in the market for a nakiri myself and have been following this thread as my needs and situation are very similar to the OP


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 10, 2014)

insomniac said:


> I've bought a Shigefusa santoku about a year back as a gift for a relative and had the opportunity to try it a few times... and I would say that while it just absolutely destroys root vegetables, it is a little more reactive than some other carbons if you plan to use it for everything. I'm not sure how much his Nakiris run these days but on the whole, I think Shigefusa product is being priced "where demand is"... i.e. a little out of the water, not to say it isn't great product, but I'm not sure if you want to start buying so close to the top of the range. You may also need to queue as some have mentioned...
> 
> The Murata is a very good value for the money imo if thats your aim. For Nakiri's specifically I actually only own a Kamata and a Shigeharu. Its not my favorite profile... I bought them as souvenirs. I actually use them as mini menkiri for pasta/noodles more often than anything else. They did teach me that kurouchi finishes wont last if you actually plan to use the knife though... so don't buy a KU for the aesthetic
> 
> Given your criteria I think Konosuke HD2 is a good choice here as a balance of being easy to sharpen and easy to maintain while being bloody sharp. Perhaps you can also consider a Masamoto KK or even their lower lines if you want an affordable carbon? its a brand that has sort of lost popularity online due to being a larger enterprise, but I've always found their knives good all rounders performance-wise.



Which Murata are you speaking of? 

Also, does anyone know anything about the Gassan blades?


----------



## Bill13 (Feb 10, 2014)

I'm feeling pretty honored that Pensacola Tiger is seconding my recommendation:doublethumbsup:! Watanabe makes a great nikiri!!


----------



## jamaster14 (Feb 11, 2014)

Bill13 said:


> I will vote for the Watanabe nakiri, have one and love it!



do you have the white or blue steel?


----------



## Bill13 (Feb 11, 2014)

Blue Steel.


----------



## jamaster14 (Feb 11, 2014)

Bill13 said:


> Blue Steel.



thanks. got any photos?


----------



## HomeCook (Feb 12, 2014)

Timthebeaver said:


> You misunderstand. Maksim is the seller of the Itinomonn knife, he will rehandle it before shipping it to you if you want. I believe he offers worldwide free shipping as well. The burnt chestnut handles he sells are very nice, as are his knives.



Where do you contact him? The only website I found for Itonomonn was japanesenaturalstones. Also, why rehandle and what woods are available other than chestnut? I'm looking to upgrade from a cheapie Tojiro DP nakiri ("borrowed" by my mother) and this sounds reasonable. The other one I was considering was the Takeda (out of stock and expensive) and a $200 Shigefusa (out of stock at CKTG).


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 12, 2014)

you can contact him through messaging here the username is Maxim he is the one who runs JNS


----------



## HomeCook (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks! I suppose I can also email jns.


----------



## CoqaVin (Feb 12, 2014)

probably easier to just shoot him a message through here is an active user


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 12, 2014)

Wound up copping a Gassan from that fictional place I'm not allowed to say aloud...

Blue steel #2, blue steel #2, blue steel #2! 







I appreciate all the suggestions and discussion we've had here and still plan on getting a Shig or Murray Carter, probably whichever comes in stock somewhere first, or maybe the Watanabe, maybe even a Kono HD2 or Takeda... jesus, I just ordered this knife and am already scheming on the next cutter... :lol2:

But I couldn't pass up on the price and am a sucker for the unknown and if the grinds are anything like the pictures it will be a steal, plus said fictional proprietor of said fictional interwebz page has always given me very good customer service and quick response so unless something weird happens I personally don't hold the disdain for him some here do. 

Not trying to promote this mysterious place nor apologize as if I did something wrong lol, just hope an open mind can be kept when I discuss this blade once I get it and put it through it's paces. 

My plan is to get this rehandled by the summer if it's the goods while adding one more nakiri, this time a more high end one such as described above. If it's meh, it will be my beater that maybe a year down the line I sell on the cheap or pass on to a friend who's looking to get into real knives.


Still hope to keep this thread alive as just a general nakiri introduction thread, it's been mad real. :biggrin:


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (Feb 12, 2014)

Dave Kinogie said:


> Wound up copping a Gassan from that fictional place I'm not allowed to say aloud...



Never heard of "Gassan", so I had to go look. Seems like it should be a decent knife. I'm looking forward to your impressions. Congratulations!

Rick


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 12, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Never heard of "Gassan", so I had to go look. Seems like it should be a decent knife. I'm looking forward to your impressions. Congratulations!
> 
> Rick



Yeah, I hadn't heard of them before a week or so ago either and couldn't find anything on them on Google even. What's the worst it could be though lol? For a Benji none the less haha?


----------



## jamaster14 (Feb 13, 2014)

Dave Kinogie said:


> Wound up copping a Gassan from that fictional place I'm not allowed to say aloud...
> 
> Blue steel #2, blue steel #2, blue steel #2!
> 
> ...



Lol at this post.... sound like the mafia 

"i got that thing from the place with the guy i may or may not have associated with"


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Mar 1, 2014)

Is the Watanabe stainless clad? Or it's full carbon?

EDIT: Never mind, just went back on page 7, it is stainless clad.


----------



## jamaster14 (Mar 1, 2014)

Dave Kinogie said:


> Is the Watanabe stainless clad? Or it's full carbon?
> 
> EDIT: Never mind, just went back on page 7, it is stainless clad.



and its a fantastic knife. got mine today, went through a ton of veg. really happy with it as a cutter. love the weight and size, the slightly rounded tip.


----------



## Dave Kinogie (Mar 1, 2014)

jamaster14 said:


> and its a fantastic knife. got mine today, went through a ton of veg. really happy with it as a cutter. love the weight and size, the slightly rounded tip.



Thanks, just PM'ed you about it, didn't think to check this thread first haha.

So does it still show patina?


----------

