# Newbie whetstone recommandation



## ayktekc (Mar 29, 2016)

Hello, first of all I'm home cook from Turkey. 
I recently bought Tojiro DP Gyuto 240mm from Amazon for $63(which it didnt arrive yet), after all i did search about japanese knives and i realize that i should not use my Chef's Choice 463 Knife Sharpener gadget which i was using this gadget for my Victorinox Chef Knife. 
So according to my research about sharpening japanese knives, I find some products for starting to sharpening:

For Coarse Stone : King 1000 Grit Sharpening Stone
For Medium-Fine stone : Shapton Pro 5000 Grit Whetstone
For Polishing Strop : Trend U*DWS/HP/LS Honing Compound Leather Strop
For Polishing Compound : Woodstock D2902 1-Pound Extra Fine Buffing Compound, Green
For Nagura Stone : King Japanese Nagura Stone #8000
and lastly For Flattening Whetstones : DMT D8X 8-Inch Dia-Sharp Continuous Diamond Extra-Coarse 

So what do you think about this set for a beginner? And If you want to recommend me whetstones keep in mind that i have to buy this products from Amazon.com because i'm having trouble with Turkey's customs sometimes but amazon.com handle this problem for me.
(I'm sorry for my bad english, i'm not a native english speaker)


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## WingKKF (Mar 29, 2016)

First off, 1000 grit is not considered coarse. That's more like medium. You want to start with something with a lower grit like 320 to 500 or it will take too much time especially when you need to do some thinning. A 5k grit stone is a fine finishing stone for kitchen knives. Shaptons Pros or Glass Stones, which you can get from Amazon, will work better with tougher steels than a King stone would and will dish less. You don't need a nagura stone for synthetic stones as far as I can tell. For kitchen knives you don't really need a strop if you know how to deburr with your finishing stone. Newspaper (ala Murray Carter) works too.


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## psfred (Mar 29, 2016)

King stones work OK, but they wear very quickly with hard steel, and will require flattening every use. I prefer a Bester 1200 (the Bester 1000 is very similar) and either a King 6000 or a Suehiro 5000 for knives. That combination has worked very well with my Tojiro -- you will not need a coarse stone for a long time, and should NOT use one just to restore a slightly dull edge.

A few strokes on each side to raise the smallest burr you can feel and a few strokes on the finer stone, followed by stropping on some wood with chromium oxide polishing compound gives me very good edges. 

Peter


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## Jovidah (Mar 29, 2016)

First, regarding the 'set'. I think it's a bit overkill to start with strops and compounds. I also doubt the Tojiro DP would benefit all that much from it.
Also I doubt how useful a nagura would be. Polishing stones that are supposed to benefit from one usually come with them. Especially when you already have a flattening solution their use would for the foreseeable be pretty limited.
I would as WingKKF consider getting a coarse stone, but that is up for debate. You can to some extent get by without one.


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## thisisputt (Apr 15, 2016)

1000 isn't a coarse grit it's more like a fine grit
I wouldn't recommend you needing a polishing strop nor compound nor a nagura stone as a beginner.
For some/most people a 5000 grit stone is enough as a finishing stone.
But it's ultimately up to you to decide whether to buy it or not.


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## thisisputt (Apr 15, 2016)

1000 is more of a medium sorry


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## Matus (Apr 15, 2016)

To be able to mainain the knife (and others thay may follow in the future) you are going to need (ideally) 3 stones. Coarse (300 - 500), Medium (1000-2000) and fine (3000-6000). You really do not need finer stone than 6000 and may actually prefer slightly less fine stone so that the edge has enough bite (on tomatos for example).

You will also need something to keep your stones flat - you can go simple and use a sanding paper (grit about 150) on a flat surface (smooth surface tile or similar), or get a diamond stone for that (e.g. Atoma 140).

Now which stones to get depends up to large extend on your budget, so letting us know how much you can invest will make it easier for us to recommend you some stones. If you can afford some of the better stones out there, than there is no reason to get 'beginner' stones as good set of stones will last you for many years (in particular the medium and fine stones), so you do not really want to be upgreading your stones after a year or two.


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## fujiyama (Apr 15, 2016)

Why are we talking about "hard steels" wearing stones away? Tojiro DP is not a hard steel. _The King stone is designed to abrade quickly._ This is not a disadvantage! The King stone is also very capable with hard steels. Just because one person prefers hard stones doesn't mean they're superior to soft stones. 

People are set in their ways of thinking which makes it hard for them to give a reasonable recommendation. Many people online sway others away from products that they probably never even tried in real life, because they thought something else was "better". 

What we're doing here is rubbing steel on stones, "it's not rocket appliances".. 

I'd get the King 1000, DMT plate and nagura stone. Saves you money until you (if you) need more edge refinement.


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## Nife (Apr 16, 2016)

Actually, years ago I was reasonably good at mathematics and good at statistical analysis. I probably would have found rocket science easier for me than refining the perceptual motor tasks involved in proficiently sharpening knives. I will try to remember that when I struggle sharpening knives to make me feel a little better. I agree that there are different stones for different folks, and that the skill of the user is much more important than the type of stone used.


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## psfred (Apr 16, 2016)

You will want a strop for that Tojiro, it's difficult to de-burr without one. I've quit using my King stones, the need to flatten several times while sharpening a plane blade put me off them permanently -- it became impossible to get a decent edge because the stones dished so fast. Probably OK for knives, but I've not tried.

A Bester 1200 and a Suehiro Rika 5000 do a wonderful job with a DP if followed by a quick strop with that green compound on a flap piece of wood. 

I consider Rc61 fairly hard steel.

Peter


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## ooeei (Apr 24, 2016)

I think a 1000, 5000, and flattening plate will be all you need.. If you're buying internationally, get a coarse stone because shipping will be expensive. Don't use it until you are skilled with the 1000/5000. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what you can accomplish those two.


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## Smurfmacaw (Apr 24, 2016)

Depends on your finances. If I had to start now, I would get a Gesshin 2000, faster than my 1000 shapton glass stone and pretty much my go-to unless I'm doing some extreme metal removal. Seriously a great stone, I permasoak but that is not totally necessary....Then any decent 4000-6000 grit stone to finish. I like my shapton glass 4000 and 8000 if I want it to be pretty. The 4000 is fine enough for any japanese knife and the 8000 makes a really mirror bevel (I usually strop back to the 4000 to get the "tooth"). The flattening plate is nice to have but not totally necessary...Murray Carter has many videos on flattening stones. I like the diamond plate for convenience though. I use an atoma 140 grit and really like ti. This is not the most economical (cheapest) solution but you would never regret going this way.


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## Steampunk (Apr 25, 2016)

Unless you have major repairs (Chips, broken tips, thinning, reprofiling, etc.), there isn't much you can't do with a diamond flattening plate (140-150 grit if you plan on expanding your stone lineup later; 300-400 if you don't, and want to keep your setup as minimal as possible.), a good 800-2K grit stone (I would actually drop a bit of coin on a good synthetic medium-grit stone), an affordable finisher of some type (Synthetic or natural; 3-6K ish range. <$100.), and a basic strop (Again, can be very cheap, and even home-made. Even newspaper or an old pair of jeans, but a leather, felt, or balsa strop pasted with diamond in the 1-3 micron range would make your initial de-burring experiences a little easier if you want to spend a bit more.). 

The only thing that makes this process complicated is that every sharpener, and every knife seems to have a different combination of stones that they/it responds best to. On Tojiro DP VG-10, I like my Naniwa Pro 800 for a mid-grit, and my Shapton Glass Stone 4000 HR for a synthetic finisher (Or better yet, my Belgian Blue Whetstone for a natural, but this has its own learning curve.) the best. However, whilst these are fairly versatile stones they won't necessarily cut with the same aplomb, or leave as desirable of an edge on all steels. It depends upon what direction you want to go in the future... For major repairs, you will want a coarser stone in the 300-400 grit range (Or lower), but I have yet to find anything I really like and can recommend without caveat in this range.

Lastly, you will read a number of negative comments about VG-10 being chippy, or difficult to sharpen, and de-burr. Don't let this discourage you... This is not always the case, and my experience with VG-10 in both Tojiro and also in Spyderco (If you like pocket knives.) has actually been fairly good. It's not a peak performer in any one category like some of my favorite Japanese stainless and carbon alloys, but compared to most European stainless knives, Tojiro's heat treat of VG-10 is fairly enjoyable to sharpen and also isn't overly brittle in use. 

Hopefully this helps...

- Steampunk


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## Steampunk (Apr 25, 2016)

One more thing (Yeah, yeah, Peter Falk...)... The factory edge on Tojiro's is 60/40-50/50, 12.5-13 degrees per side, belt finished & buffed. Make yourself a little angle guide set at 12.5-13 degrees so that you can maintain that 25-26 degree inclusive angle more easily when you're first starting. The steel performs pretty well at this angle, but if you rock at all to mince herbs, you might want to put a higher angle micro-bevel on it; something in the 25-degree per side range (Or higher if using an assymetrical micro-bevel, as is traditional in Japan.).

- Steampunk


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## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 25, 2016)

Considering you are in Turkey and if you think you are going to sharpen often, i would choose a set like JNS 300 (optional), 1k and 6k (or JNS synth aoto in its place) so you'll be able to get free shipping. If i were starting again, i would get, at first, only the JNS 1k and an atoma plate.
King stones are cheaper and do the job, but at least in my experience, it is easier to use faster middle-grit stones. Besides that, you'll get something that dishes less and is splash-and-go. The atoma plate is not necessary, but it's definitely more convenient.


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## Matus (Apr 25, 2016)

OK, let me add some more 

You most used stone is going to be the middle grit stone (1000 - 2000) - so get the best you can there. JNS 1000 or Gesshin 2000 would be my first choice. 

The fine stone (anything between 3000 - 6000) is only going to refine the edge you got with the medium stone - this stone will probably last you decades. I personally would get either the Gesshin 4000 (leaves beautifully toothy edge the is already fine enough for most work, but bites into tomatoes incredibly), or Gesshin Synthetic Natural (a tiny bit finer than the 4000). The JNS Aoto Matukusuyama would probably be a great choice too. The 6000 is for my taste a little too fine grit for general use kitchen knives, but most really like it. Here either Gesshin or JNS would be a good choice.

The coarse stone will not be necessary with every sharpening - but every once in a while you may need to take out some chips or repair the tip, or (and do not underestimate this) - you will be asked by your family to sharpen their super-blunt knives for them (after few month of learning on your knives you will be a demigod in eyes of a non-knife person). Here the JNS300 impressed me strongly - I used it to thin a knife and after 1 hour of some serious work there was no dishing to be seen. But there are several nice Gesshin stones in similar range - for example the 320 (also very dish resistant).

You will also need (want, actually) some decent stone holder - here the large Suehiro (comes with a small plastic tray) works great - I mean *this one*. I have it and use it a lot.

For stone flattening - if you do not have cash to spare for a diamond plate (Atoma 140 is super excellent and you can use it for some really serious edge repairs where the 300 stone would not be fast enough) or one from JKI is the best, but you can get by with some 150 - 180 sanding paper and some flat surface.

Hope this helps.


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## Pirendeus (Apr 26, 2016)

Matus said:


> You will also need (want, actually) some decent stone holder - here the large Suehiro (comes with a small plastic tray) works great - I mean *this one*. I have it and use it a lot.



Is this in addition to the holder that most Suehiro's seem to include? Or is that holder not transferable to a different stone?


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## Chef_ (Apr 26, 2016)

I use a king combo stone 1000/6000 and a cheap diamond flattening plate i got from CKTG. I dont need a course grit because i dont let my knives get dull in the first place. My knives get razor sharp and have plenty of bite, you dont need all that other stuff.


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## daveb (Apr 27, 2016)

In the states we have an expression about opinions, everybody has one and some of them stink. You may well think that about mine.

To have an effective sharpening setup you'll need 3 stones, coarse, med and fine. Even though your Torijo (sp?) will be new there will times when you'll want to sharpen other knives or sharpen out an inadvertent chip, ding or whatever. 3 stones will provide the tools required for any sharpening task.

To obtain those stones in Turkey is a constraint that most of us will know little if anything about. If Amazon is the easy answer then order stones from Amazon. But consider Maxim at JNS and James at Knives and Stones as well. They are both supporting retailers here that are experienced with shipping internationally. JKI is among my favorite retailers but shipping internationally can be cost prohibitive.

As to specifics, for coarse stone I like the JNS 300 a lot. Maxim also has a 1K and 6K that I like and are highly regarded. And JNS offers free shipping for orders over (approx) 180 USD. You would also be well served with the 300, 1K and his synthetic aoto. The DMT XC diamond plate will be fine as a flattening stone. I used an XXC plate for flattening for a long time before I went with the JKI plate. 

I don't personally like the King stones but they work well for many. Suggest you forego any of the strops or compounds until you've a little more experience with this stuff.


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## Matus (Apr 27, 2016)

Pirendeus said:


> Is this in addition to the holder that most Suehiro's seem to include? Or is that holder not transferable to a different stone?



That holder will work with any stone.

The advice from Dave is solid.


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## laxdad (Apr 27, 2016)

I'm a fellow newbie in Japanese knives. For stones, I started with Shapton Pro Kuromaku. The Kuromaku are the Shapton Pro stones sold in Japan, and are less expensive than the "regular" Shapton Pro stones in the US. The 320 and 1000 Kuromaku stones are typically around $40 USD, and the 5000 stone is around $60 USD. The only gotcha is that the instructions are written in Japanese.

You can find the Kuromaku stones at internet knife stores based in Japan, or from Japan-based sellers on eBay and Amazon. Some of the eBay and Amazon sellers offer free shipping to the US. Hopefully, they will do the same to Turkey.


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