# Which unstbilised woods work for handles?



## Nemo (Jun 22, 2018)

Obviously magnolia, ebony and various stabilised burls work.

What about unstabilised woods? Do they need to be kiln dried? Would harvesting a long dead tree work? Do they need a surface treatment? What are the caracteristics of woods which work well or poorly (density, porosity, grain structure or other features)?

Any other considerations?


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## RDalman (Jun 22, 2018)

Kiln dried is good yes. If you want to dry yourself it's worth looking into as a separate subject, takes time.. Most stuff will "work" just a matter of your preferences I guess. Heck you can make a handle from pine. But in that case it will not be very sandpaper friendly, so cutting tools might be nice to shape with. Open grain woods can be pretty nice feeling in hand, like ash, oak or elm.


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## Nemo (Jun 22, 2018)

RDalman said:


> Kiln dried is good yes. If you want to dry yourself it's worth looking into as a separate subject, takes time.. Most stuff will "work" just a matter of your preferences I guess. Heck you can make a handle from pine. But in that case it will not be very sandpaper friendly, so cutting tools might be nice to shape with. Open grain woods can be pretty nice feeling in hand, like ash, oak or elm.


Thanks Robin


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## nevrknow (Jun 22, 2018)

Ironwood, Ebony, just about any "straight" grained wood will. I highly recommend stabilizing any Burl's because the grain structure can produce a fragile handle that will break if dropped properly. &#128512; That last part is from personal experience.


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## jessf (Jun 22, 2018)

The handle construction matters too. I wouldnt use anything but stabilized wood for full tang. Less concerned with hidden tang and metal bolster (though i use it anyway) and not concerned with a hidden tang with no bolster.


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## HRC_64 (Jun 22, 2018)

Hickory is famous for tool handles, never on knives anyone know why?


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## milkbaby (Jun 22, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> Hickory is famous for tool handles, never on knives anyone know why?



Didn't Old Hickory knives have hickory handle scales? I dunno...

My guess as to why not more popular is probably because they can be kind of boring?


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## bahamaroot (Jun 23, 2018)

Hickory is among the hardest and strongest of woods native to the United States. On average, Hickory is denser, stiffer, and harder than either White Oak or Hard Maple. The wood is commonly used where strength or shock-resistance is important.


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## scott.livesey (Jul 14, 2018)

Nemo said:


> Obviously magnolia, ebony and various stabilised burls work. What about unstabilised woods? Do they need to be kiln dried? Would harvesting a long dead tree work? Do they need a surface treatment? What are the caracteristics of woods which work well or poorly (density, porosity, grain structure or other features)? Any other considerations?



yellow poplar is in the magnolia family but not too good for handle. walnut, cherry, maple, ambrosia maple, hickory or oak will all work well. they should be sealed whether you use varnish/polyurethane or a finishing oil(find out more here http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com...-and-abrasives/penetrative/oil-finishes-pt-1/) black locust, honey locust, or dogwood are the hardest and heaviest found in US. kiln dried is best, stuff from your yard needs to be cut to oversize(say 1"x2"x8") and dried for at least a year. stabilized is ok if you like plastic feel and extra weight, wood usually doubles in weight when stabilized.


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## Nemo (Jul 14, 2018)

scott.livesey said:


> yellow poplar is in the magnolia family but not too good for handle. walnut, maple, ambrosia maple, hickory or oak will all work well. they should be sealed whether you use varnish/polyurethane or a finishing oil(find out more here http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com...-and-abrasives/penetrative/oil-finishes-pt-1/) black locust, honey locust, or dogwood are the hardest and heaviest found in US. kiln dried is best, stuff from your yard needs to be cut to oversize(say 1"x2"x8") and dried for at least a year. stabilized is ok if you like plastic feel and extra weight, wood usually doubles in weight when stabilized.


Thanks Scott.

The tree I had in mind is long dead. I'm pretty sure it's Grey Box (a dense and hard eucalypt, eucalyptus microcarpa). It's super dry. When It's this dry, it ruins saw chains in short order (less than a tank before I need to sharpen the chain).


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## Bert2368 (Apr 3, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> Hickory is famous for tool handles, never on knives anyone know why?



I have replaced handle scales on kitchen knives with hickory (unstabilized, I just bought a small plank from "Youngblood Lumber" in Minneapolis). Oil finished, soaked the back side a couple of times with linseed oil/mineral spirits then straight linseed oil over several days before riveting on the scales & sanding to shape. Then soaked the handle with same, several more times.

Gave nicely re handled bread knife back to my landlord's wife, who proceeded to leave it overnight on the counter near sink in a puddle that same week. It swelled, warped and cracked... 

I suspect it is not sufficiently dimensionally stable against moisture changes for kitchen use. Plus, it's not a stunningly pretty wood.


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## Bert2368 (Apr 3, 2019)

Pardon my thread necromancy- But this existing thread seems appropriate to my next question:

Dessert Ironwood is known for dimensional stability. But it comes in smallish pieces, usually has defects, voids, checks. Expensive too.

Looking for some other known dimensionally stable hardwoods, I read about a South African tree called variously "Kiaat", "Muninga" or "Mukwa", Latin species name is Pterocarpus angolensis.

https://www.wood-database.com/muninga/

Decent Janka hardness, yet density is low enough not to throw a knife's ballance totally out of whack. Pretty-ish grain too, not terribly toxic or irritating either.





I can find listings on ebay or Etsy for finished wood products, furniture, art works... and 3/4" x 3/4" x 6" long pen blanks. Not finding anything large enough for a wa handle. On alibaba, all you could want is available! With a minimum order being one 25 metric ton, 40' long shipping container loads of logs...

Has anyone seen this wood offered as turning blanks or other kitchen knife handle sized pieces in the USA? There ARE a couple of fixed blade knives using this wood listed on ebay.

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I also found real lignum vitae being listed on ebay by people in Jamaica. Regrettably, the sellers which are affordable don't have certification allowing the (endangered species) wood to be imported into USA, so it wouldn't likely arrive.

Available wood, stable without plasticizing, cheap. Pick any two qualities?


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## HSC /// Knives (Apr 3, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Pardon my thread necromancy- But this existing thread sees appropriate to my next question:
> 
> Dessert Ironwood is known for dimensional stability. But it comes in smallish pieces, usually has defects, voids, checks. Expensive too.


I use alot of desert ironwood, I get it in whatever sizes I want and it's one of the best value woods (cheapest) I can get, The burl has "defects, voids, checks." I've not found any problem in regular desert ironwood. LMK if u need assistance, I can put u in touch with my supplier.


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## HSC /// Knives (Apr 3, 2019)

milkbaby said:


> Didn't Old Hickory knives have hickory handle scales? I dunno...
> 
> My guess as to why not more popular is probably because they can be kind of boring?


yes, no figure, no one wants a dull custom knife.


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## Tim Rowland (Apr 3, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Has anyone seen this wood offered as turning blanks or other kitchen knife handle sized pieces in the USA? There ARE a couple of fixed blade knives using this wood listed on ebay.
> I also found real lignum vitae being listed on ebay by people in Jamaica. Regrettably, the sellers which are affordable don't have certification allowing the (endangered species) wood to be imported into USA, so it wouldn't likely arrive.



Bert you can find larger turning stock from a few wood turners websites with good prices that carry real lignum vitae and Kiaat. Word of caution on both, they will blunt your bandsaw blades quickly and you need fresh ceramic belts on your grinder! 
Take a look at www.woodturnerscatalog.com they carry a decent selection of exotics and a good stock of domestic species as well in 1x1x12 and larger.
For some higher end exotics and hard to find species check out www.gilmerwood.com



HSC3 said:


> I use alot of desert ironwood, I get it in whatever sizes I want and it's one of the best value woods (cheapest) I can get, The burl has "defects, voids, checks." I've not found any problem in regular desert ironwood. LMK if u need assistance, I can put u in touch with my supplier.



HSC3: please message me your desert ironwood supplier, I am always looking for new contacts/suppliers. Thank you


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## daizee (Apr 3, 2019)

I'm a fan of white oak. Just posted a picture in the Handiwork sub-forum. Sometimes you can get pretty pieces as drops from other things. Katalox is good. The only Lignum Vitae I've used shrank quite a bit, and quickly. Surprising. Really well-dried maple is pretty good. I've made some handles from a piece of VERY curly salvaged maple gym floor. It was well-dried and in service quite awhile without cracks, so it didn't bat an eye at being trimmed down for knife handles. Mixed results with other maple...


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## milkbaby (Apr 3, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Dessert Ironwood is known for dimensional stability. But it comes in smallish pieces, usually has defects, voids, checks. Expensive too.
> 
> Looking for some other known dimensionally stable hardwoods, I read about a South African tree called variously "Kiaat", "Muninga" or "Mukwa", Latin species name is Pterocarpus angolensis.
> Decent Janka hardness, yet density is low enough not to throw a knife's ballance totally out of whack. Pretty-ish grain too, not terribly toxic or irritating either.
> Has anyone seen this wood offered as turning blanks or other kitchen knife handle sized pieces in the USA? There ARE a couple of fixed blade knives using this wood listed on ebay.



Even though people say desert ironwood is rare, it is relatively easy to find and not super expensive. Arizona Ironwood sells their stock ironwood blanks 6" x 1.5" square for $13.50 each, so not super cheap, but less than what you'd probably pay for stabilized woods. And there are some sellers on ebay like sonoraironwood where they have lots of knife blocks 5.2" x 1.7" x 1.2". Right now they're offering one lot that is all seconds/flawed quality 37 blocks for $107 shipped in the US, for a non-seconds lot they have 37 high contrast blocks $199 shipped in the US. You'll pay more for burl and crazy figure but that's normal for all woods.

I have one or two sets of scales of Muniga/Kiaat that I picked up from ebay 2 or 3 years ago. I believe it was from exoticwoods2000. They also sell large boards and slabs, the scales and knife blocks are just a side thing for them, for people like me who don't want to buy a big slab of wood to cut down. There was a wood that I got from them that was crazy hard and dense, I think they called it canela but I haven't found the species name elsewhere. katalox is another choice for a very hard and dense handle wood. But these won't necessarily be a lot cheaper than the ironwood as sourced above.

From the muniga/kiaat that I have, it looks kinda boring. I'd choose padauk or movingui which are similar or higher density/hardness for woods that have more interesting grain, both which will show some depth, movement, and chatoyance when sanded to high grit and sealed. I've used both unstabilized but kiln dried without issue on full tang handles (well sealed with oil-varnish finish like Tru Oil).


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## daizee (Apr 3, 2019)

I've purchased a couple blocks of desert ironwood. One or both came with some voids, I don't recall if both handles with voids came from the same block or not.

One with voids I cut into scales and subsequently wrecked being stupid on the drill press.
The other I turned into a wa handle on an usuba, carefully placing the void in a safe spot, and then filling it with clear epoxy (not my usual yellowish G-Flex) mixed with my late friend's hand-ground lapis powder.

I decided the stuff is affordable enough compared to micarta blocks, and some flaws are manageable. It has a beautiful luster once it's finish-sanded and waxed:


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## Bert2368 (Apr 3, 2019)

Padauk is of the same family of trees as kiaat/muninga, I did just look at the several related Pterocarpus species of trees, all of which have similarly good dimensional stability, many also have a higher Janka hardness and some more interesting coloring/prettier grain.

One of these related tree specicies is "Zitan", AKA "Red Sandalwood" (Pterocarpus santalinus) which the Chinese are so in love with it seems to be going extinct.

Dessert ironwood is sounding better all the time.


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## HRC_64 (Apr 3, 2019)

The japanese do use a red-sandlawood (紫檀) often called 'shitan' (translated: Zǐtán by google)
https://www.tanoshiijapanese.com/dictionary/entry_details.cfm?entry_id=69644
maybe Jon or one of the janapnese experts will chime in on what exactly this stuff is.

A search based on the japanese kanji (紫檀)
https://tsubaya.co.jp/?mode=srh&keyword=%BB%E7%C3%C9%B1%A6%B7%AA%B7%BF

A search vian english using 'shitan'
https://www.japanny.com/collections/gyuto-chef-s-knife/shitan-rosewood


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## Barashka (Apr 3, 2019)

I'll second African Blackwood/Ebony .. very stable just being raw. However, quite difficult to work with as it's quite dense, and it will throw off your balance because it's a bit heavy.


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## Michi (Apr 4, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> The japanese do use a red-sandlawood (紫檀) often called 'shitan'


One of a number of Dalbergia species: http://cameo.mfa.org/wiki/Rosewood


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## Bert2368 (Apr 4, 2019)

Michi said:


> One of a number of Dalbergia species: http://cameo.mfa.org/wiki/Rosewood



https://www.wood-database.com/zitan/

Mentioned this wood up thread a bit. Looks nice. At 63 lb./cubic foot, Janka hardness of 2,940, it's actually NOT quite as hard or dense as some of the other woods mentioned.

A very fine grained, non brittle species, Chinese furniture makers over at least 10 centuries liked they way it carved. Which is why you won't find it available much. That, and as it is essentially a non renewable resource with constantly rising prices, durable enough so 1,000 year lifespans for such furniture are possible, it's a place for wealthy Chinese to INVEST MONEY.

http://www.chinese-furniture.com/c_furniture/m_zitan.html

"Tree poachers" supplying an illegal international market supplying China will kill for this wood. Litterally.

https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/rosewoods-bubinga-really-banned-cites/

Just say "yes" to dessert ironwood...


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## HRC_64 (Apr 4, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/rosewoods-bubinga-really-banned-cites



This was a very in-depth and iformative article. Thanks for posting it!


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## Bert2368 (Apr 4, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> This was a very in-depth and iformative article. Thanks for posting it!



Thanks.

The ethics of using endangered species sourced natural products vs. the legal entanglements and real world repercussions are confusing, to say the least.

I was in Fiji a couple of years back. These islands had a number of VERY interesting tree species endemic to the various islands, with mechanical characteristics coupled to the specific biome they had grown in (I speak as to uses in ocean going outrigger canoes, primarily, at one point I had pursued an interest in naval architecture).

In addition, the British Empire had started plantations of commercially desirable tropical woods previously found in their other posessions, such as "Teak" (and other tree species) before the empire largely dissolved, post WWII.

So there I am, hiking WAY back in a jungle to reach a white water river and go boating down stream past a couple of hundred waterfalls... And I look down at the wooden blocks someone has helpfully embedded in the soil for tourists like myself to walk on.

Yep. I was walking on chunks of tropical hardwood I recognized as being worth more back in USA than my airline ticket to this island. And which the locals couldn't easily put on the world market due to international law. ***. It was plantation grown timber and in no way endemic to this island?!

"The law is an ass", sometimes. Other times, it is blind. Occasionally, it's spot on. Enjoy trying to figure out which is happening when...


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## GoodMagic (Apr 4, 2019)

Ringed gidgee from the Timber Joint. The wood is very dense, does not need stabilizing, takes a great polish and has great figure. I’ve used for western handles. Would look great with big oak in a wa. Ironwood is another great choice, as others discussed. I’ve also used teak- easy to work, and it’s held up well to home use.


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## inferno (Apr 5, 2019)

I have used masur birch, turkish walnut, bocote, ziricote, olive. These all works good and look killer. My absolute faves are masur and turkish walnut, aaand olive (if you get pretty pieces with many lines and good contrast, I would opt for the most premium pieces here if I could).

They glue well, saw well, file/rasp/sand well and are pretty straight forward to work with. 

I do all my handles with pure tung oil. first diluted 50% with white spirit (naphta) or acetone, then after the third or so application I go only tung oil. They look nice and they feel nice. And its also very low maintenance.


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## Bert2368 (Apr 7, 2019)

Still waiting to hear back about the dessert ironwood, in the meantime, I found a listing for "Argentine lignum vitae" AKA "Verawood" (Bulnesia sarmientoi).

https://www.wood-database.com/verawood/

Anyone ever used this stuff?

Super hard, oily, resinous like the true lignum vitae. Said to smell nice, Chinese call it "green sandalwood". Good against water dammage, rot and insects, an acceptable replacement for true lignum vitae in underwater applications, marine bearings, etc.


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## milkbaby (Apr 7, 2019)

I haven't used verawood yet though I have some in my wood stash. It's very hard and waxy but supposedly not as hard as the real deal lignum vitae. I think verawood is more attractive than lignum vitae when quartersawn to show a feather looking pattern. Expose it to sunlight or UV to turn it greenish.

In my opinion, if you make sure your wood is very well seasoned and relatively low movement with changes in humidity (some woods are inherently not as stable tho), then you can get away with using many different woods for handles, especially wa/hidden tang handles, even better if you use dowel construction. If you're not shipping handles from one place to another but keeping them for yourself, you'll most likely be okay with kiln dried woods after local equilibration or air dried woods that have stabilized in weight (which shows they are not drying anymore under the current conditions). Where people often seem to get in trouble is buying green or not fully dried wood and using it right away.

See what Daniel, who does rehandles for Epicurean Edge, says about woods here in post #13: https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/rehandle-jobs-gallery-pic-heavy.12272/

He says that he waits 5 years after purchasing woods for them to "settle down" before use, and that he feels resin stabilization restarts the clocks so to speak, i.e. he waits another 5 years after stabilization to use the wood.


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## Bert2368 (Apr 7, 2019)

I will be VERY tired by the time my latest purchases are ready, by that time table...

I do have some 15 YO + hard woods in my posession, but it was all leftovers from remodeling work I did before 2004, was not chosen as knife handle materials.





Another question: There is a "bronze" family alloy called "gun metal" which was once used for ship's cannons. Very corrosion resistant, fairly strong, Copper/tin based with a little Zinc but NOT yellow brass colored, nor does it patina the way copper does.

I was considering it for handle spacers on more rustic looking blades, dark, hammered looking Iron clad blades don't seem to call for bling-bling shiny yellow metals in the handle to me.

Have any tried using "gun metal" in a knife handle?

http://www.oecam.eu/index.php/en/copper-and-alloys-en-3/gunmetal


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## Bert2368 (Apr 9, 2019)

So, I went looking via Google for "bronze" in "knife handles".

And I found THESE.







On the plus side: Hey, it IS a good look for grey/dark/patinad steel and dark wood, much as I had imagined.

On the minus: Damnit, now I'm not so sure I want to make."D" cross section Wa type handles anymore! Im'a gonna need me some bigger handle blanks.

(Edit)

If you own one of these? And love it???

Could you, pretty please, take a couple of photos of such a handle on a grid background (like the one I use for virtually all my knife pics) at as close to 90 degrees as you can, one of left or right profile and another of top or bottom view?




Looking at some stuffs I already have on hand- Top to bottom: North American wild cherry, sugar maple, "Santos" mahogany, Ironwood (not definite on species, but I THINK it is "Argentine lignum vitae"). All are just sanded and then buffed with some beeswax on lathe.

I really like the color of the ironwood for carbon steel. There is a chunk of it off of ebay headed my way. And I THINK I have a big old red brass (BRONZE) valve body in the metal recycle bin, maybe big enough to cut a ferule out of.


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## stringer (Apr 9, 2019)

I've had good luck with wenge. I just bought a big block of Osage orange (aka hedge apple that I am excited to try. It's dense, hard, straight grained and supposed to be dimensionally stable. Where I grew up they use it for fence posts on big farms and ranches because it can last in the ground exposed to the elements for over 100 years with no special treatments.


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## Bert2368 (Apr 9, 2019)

stringer said:


> I've had good luck with wenge. I just bought a big block of Osage orange (aka hedge apple that I am excited to try. It's dense, hard, straight grained and supposed to be dimensionally stable. Where I grew up they use it for fence posts on big farms and ranches because it can last in the ground exposed to the elements for over 100 years with no special treatments.



I keep hearing about Osage orange/Bodark/Bois d'Arc (Maclaura pomifera) (hey, my high school French WAS useful for more than learning what Quebecois think of anglophone US tourists!). It doesn't seem to grow in MN or WI? I have never seen one, AFAIK. Could I buy a small, dry sample from you, enough for one handle?

There is a common invasive weed tree in the midwest called "European buckthorn"/black alder (Rhamnus cathartica). I cut litterally TONS of it down between 1990 and 2004.

I chipped invasive buckthorn for mulch, burned it for campfires, made twigs into charcoal for black powder, the city parks department and landowners just wanted them GONE... And now I learn that the dark heartwood of the larger logs would have been PERFECT for what I want to do now, had I saved some.


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## inferno (Apr 9, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> I will be VERY tired by the time my latest purchases are ready, by that time table...
> 
> I do have some 15 YO + hard woods in my posession, but it was all leftovers from remodeling work I did before 2004, was not chosen as knife handle materials.
> 
> ...



I'm guessing its just another name for marine bronze, or bell (think church bell) bronze. I think its similar to bearing bronze. I replace maybe 100kg of this a year for sliding wear parts.


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## stringer (Apr 9, 2019)

I don't know how dry it is. But it's pretty easy to source. I bought it from Rockler. It looks like they source it from Argentina. It's a 2x2x12" turning blank. They sell them for 9.99. It might be awhile until I get to cutting my piece. I haven't made the knives yet that I'm using it for. 

https://www.rockler.com/argentine-osage-orange-turning-blanks


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## Bert2368 (Apr 11, 2019)

Went looking for a nominal 2x8 of quilted birch, had it squirreled away since 1990, couldn't find it.

I found something else. Never throw away hard woods...















Cut off and cleaned up a 1' section, got another 44" after that if it works out. It's about 4 3/8" wide by exactly 1 1/2" thick, so nominal 2X.

Original construction material from a building put up in 1927. I salvaged it during a remodel 30 years ago. Dry, harder than nails, clear, no knots, cracks or checks. Sounds like a xylophone key if you tap it with a hardwood mallet.

Measured and weighed, density works out to 47.2lb./Cu. ft.- A little denser than most maple.

Looks good enough to practice making handles with, might even be good enough to use for a while.

For a ferule, some of this 1" X 1" X 12" stick of cocobolo that's been sitting in my wood pile since 1993? (This little stick weighs 283 g! Yes, this stuff SINKS)




(Edit)

I just calculated the density of that alleged cocobolo- And it came out as 1.4g/cc?! That's rather higher than the listed density I find looking on line. Hell, it's higher than ANY wood density I can find listed. Double checked measurements and my math, they were correct. Should I call Guinness?


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## Tim Rowland (Apr 11, 2019)

Bert: It could be the lighting in the picture but with the deeper purplish hues and dark almost black striping I would say that wood it Bois de Rose and not Cocobolo.........If that is the case it is an extremely common and non restricted wood and worthless so I suggest that you send it to me at once for disposal.


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## Dhoff (Apr 11, 2019)

Completely unrelated and I hope I do not derail the thread. Can all these hadwoods be used for an end grain cutting board? E.g. a desert ironwood would be hella beautiful


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## stringer (Apr 11, 2019)

Even end grain I imagine iron wood would be hell on edges.


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## Bert2368 (Apr 11, 2019)

Tim Rowland said:


> Bert: It could be the lighting in the picture but with the deeper purplish hues and dark almost black striping I would say that wood it Bois de Rose and not Cocobolo.........If that is the case it is an extremely common and non restricted wood and worthless so I suggest that you send it to me at once for disposal.



I was buying a router bit for a job in the old "The Woodworker's Store" in South Minneapolis in '93, they were clearing out all the odds and ends of exotic wood for some reason, a whole pile of lumber trim, scraps and small blocks like this were piled up near the register, not labeled as to species. Your choice, $2.

If I had understood THEN what I was seeing, I would have certainly bought more. 

I asked the guy at register what this was, he told me it was cocobolo. As noted, possibly it is NOT. He didn't mention how toxic/allergic reaction prompting the wood dust might be, a cabinet maker I worked with DID warn me when I showed him my little find. 

I need to organize my tag ends and scraps, there should be a few other nice things in that shipping container. I dragged lots of wood out of dumpsters at job sites around the lakes in South Minneapolis (nice older neighborhoods, mostly built pre WWI). Tropical hardwood lumber from workers who were replacing hardwood floors, the pallets and crates of flooring were 2X lumber of same species! Old growth hardwood newel posts, quartersawn white oak door caseings. *** were some of those crews thinking?

I did run across some old, clear and very dry redwood which is almost chocolate colored from age. And my collection of slabs from white oak, cherry and maple tabletops which rich people tossed rather than repair/refinish.

Good times, I walked my dog through the alleys, picked through trash and dived into remodelers dumpsters, recycling wood.


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## inferno (Apr 11, 2019)

cocobolo can be all kinds of colors. i think this place seems to have very good pieces scroll down https://www.diamondtropicalhardwoods.com/product-category/turning-squares/page/2/

Anyone up for a cocobolo floor??


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## Bert2368 (Apr 11, 2019)

inferno said:


> cocobolo can be all kinds of colors. i think this place seems to have very good pieces scroll down https://www.diamondtropicalhardwoods.com/product-category/turning-squares/page/2/
> 
> Anyone up for a cocobolo floor??


Nice prices, offers to sell blanks in lots, cheaper than onesies twosies. Site group buy time? 

Found mahogany offered by a company in Southern FL, they remove fallen or hurricane dammaged CUBAN MAHOGANY trees (Swietenia Mahogani). I sent them an inquiry. Probably need to dry that wood for quite a while, best start soon... 

https://www.woodshop102.com/63.html


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## Bert2368 (Apr 11, 2019)

I re-read the wood data base article on wood ID of hardwoods via examining end grain. My guess is, some kind of Dalbergia. But which one?

https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/hardwood-anatomy/

Dry, sanded to 220 grit. Need to go finer, I couldn't smell annything when sanding this (by hand).

(Daylight)






Wet, same otherwise.

(Daylight)





Tried a belt sander with a well worn 220 grit belt. It smelled really nice when the belt friction warmed it up, more vannila sweet than like a rose. Also, some oily stuff came to the surface.

Gave oily/waxy looking stuff a wipe with denatured alcohol, then went back to slowly hand sanding with 350 wet/dry. Then wiped with a wet rag, dried.

Almost matches the online pictures for cocbolo end grain Or several of the other Dalbergia. And my fingers feel kind of warm, not as bad as after cleaning & cutting hot peppers without gloves, but I am stopping here until I can do this with gloves and a mask.

(Daylight)





(Incandescent lamp)


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## milkbaby (Apr 11, 2019)

You might try posting it over at woodbarter in the wood identification subforum. The hobbithouse guy hangs out there. In fact, if you haven't looked yet, go to his wood identification webpage: http://hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/


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## Tim Rowland (Apr 11, 2019)

by those last pictures and seeing in different light that does look like cocobolo. I couldn't see the true orange tones in the original picture. Cocobolo does have a distinct sweet smell. Highly suggest a respirator. It is a known skin, eye, and lung irritant. Nice site for the wood btw.
I have about 3 board feet of nice cocobolo currently but might pick more up just because of the pricing.


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## Bert2368 (Apr 12, 2019)

We like wood. We like cooking. We like knife handles MADE out of wood.

Shouldn't we really, really, really like...

COOKING WOOD to make KNIFE HANDLES?!

Recipe for baking maple is given around 9th post in the below linked thread at "lumberjocks" by member "oldwoody". Basically, 360 F. in a convection oven for 4 hours for heat stabilizing maple boards 1 1/8" thick

Gibson does it for guitar neck production now.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/52092

"Roasted maple". And it can be done at home (probably out in the yard, not actually IN your home, smells a bit smoky), in a convection oven? I am so trying this.

(Ignore any posts about the carrots and peas staining your maple)


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## Michi (Apr 12, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Shouldn't we really, really, really like...
> 
> COOKING WOOD to make KNIFE HANDLES?!


What a sterling idea! An added advantage is that you can use the knife to cut the wood!

Signature dish coming up: lightly toasted Sassafras medallions topped with Shitan shavings on a bed of Kauri mash, accompanied by a walnut, maple, and beech brunoise, and drizzled with melted board butter…


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## Bert2368 (Apr 12, 2019)

Too fancy, I'll just have a plank stake tonight.


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## Bert2368 (Apr 12, 2019)

While I'm being a cheap bastard and hacking at handles?

Has anyone ever converted a US 1 cent piece (the old, 95% Copper one) or a US 5 cent piece (75% Copper, 25% Nickel) into a handle spacer?

Annealing and hammering should do the job of making such a coin into a (wide enough) flat disc, plenty of jewelry is made this way.


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## Marek07 (Apr 12, 2019)

Michi said:


> What a sterling idea! An added advantage is that you can use the knife to cut the wood!
> 
> Signature dish coming up: lightly toasted Sassafras medallions topped with Shitan shavings on a bed of Kauri mash, accompanied by a walnut, maple, and beech brunoise, and drizzled with melted board butter…


Love it! 
A bit harsh on knives though. A tad more seasoning? At least it would be more colourful than rope soup!


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## milkbaby (Apr 12, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> While I'm being a cheap bastard and hacking at handles?
> Has anyone ever converted a US 1 cent piece (the old, 95% Copper one) or a US 5 cent piece (75% Copper, 25% Nickel) into a handle spacer?
> Annealing and hammering should do the job of making such a coin into a (wide enough) flat disc, plenty of jewelry is made this way.



I haven't done it myself, but I've seen it on Instagram before. You could go further and make mokume gane out of coins.

jessf who used to hang out here has a few pics on this thread for mokume gane:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/wip-the-tusk.28596/#post-438469

Here's another example from him where he merely stacked the quarters:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/wip-western-hidden-tang.28034/

Daniel Cauble discusses it here, basically stack the quarters, clamp them tight, heat to welding temp then squish to forge weld.




https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/in...th-mokume-gane/&do=findComment&comment=304526


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## Michi (Apr 12, 2019)

milkbaby said:


> Daniel Cauble discusses it here, basically stack the quarters, clamp them tight, heat to welding temp then squish to forge weld.


That would look awesome when converted into a wide(-ish) spacer!


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## inferno (Apr 12, 2019)

milkbaby said:


> basically stack the quarters, clamp them tight, heat to welding temp then squish to forge weld.



wow this is basically how a central bank operates. what a coincidence.


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## Bert2368 (Apr 12, 2019)

inferno said:


> wow this is basically how a central bank operates. what a coincidence.



Ah, so you live in one of those "hot money" countries?

The maple blanks are sawn, heat treatment before actual handle fabrication has begun. I'm posting progress and pictures here:

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/if-you-build-a-handle-the-blade-will-come.41308/


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## Dhoff (Apr 13, 2019)

You cant handle the truth!


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## Bert2368 (Apr 16, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Nice prices, offers to sell blanks in lots, cheaper than onesies twosies. Site group buy time?
> 
> Found mahogany offered by a company in Southern FL, they remove fallen or hurricane dammaged CUBAN MAHOGANY trees (Swietenia Mahogani). I sent them an inquiry. Probably need to dry that wood for quite a while, best start soon...
> 
> https://www.woodshop102.com/63.html



The guy in FL who salvages and slabs up hurricane dammage sourced real Cuban mahogany ( Swietenia mahagoni) got back to me. I have a 36" + x 6" + x 1 1/2" all heart wood s4s board coming. Pictures looked nice, some interesting grain on one end, straight on the other. Been air drying at least 6 years, possibly as long as 10.

He can provide (USA grown?) teak wood as well, didn't get prices on other species yet. No true lignum vitae (Guaiacum officinale) storm dammage wood available, but he HAS planted them on his own property- Very slow growing, 20 years for a trunk 4" thick.


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## inferno (Apr 18, 2019)

Can someone tell me whats so special about lignum vitae? compare to other high performance woods that is.


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## stringer (Apr 18, 2019)

inferno said:


> Can someone tell me whats so special about lignum vitae? compare to other high performance woods that is.



I haven't used it. But from what I understand, it is the densest heaviest hardest wood there is. I imagine a wa knife with a handle made completely of the stuff would be real handle heavy. It would be great for ferrules. Extremely resinous. Self stabilized. Would make great Western scales. It's sort of the OG ironwood.


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## Bert2368 (Apr 18, 2019)

The one use where lignum vitae has not found an adequate replacement is in self lubricating, high durometer and non corroding bearings for water power plants.

Most particularly, the wood is still used in fresh water applications where it is desired that the water remain potable after passing through the turbines. Since the heart wood has a very large % of oily/waxy resin which acts as a lubricant and this resin is not terribly toxic or allergenic to humans, it is STILL being specified for new water power installations. Such bearings have lasted over 50 years in constant use, synthetic barings just are not as durable in this use.

Metalic bearings require lubrication, inevitably lose some lubricant into the working fluid and contaminate it, plus metals under water wear and corrode in use. Modern, allegedly "self lubricating" synthetic materials such as nylons or teflons are not yet as durable as the old fashioned wooden bearings.

For a knife handle frequently wet and needing to be washed often, the wood has long term wet stability WITHOUT needing surface treatments, chemical stabilization or an intact water resistant coating.

Plus, it smells good, looks good and has an historical cachet.

I don't NEED to use it. I just want to, because I think it's cool.

My lignum vitae cleared US customs yesterday, I have become a heavy wood addict.

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I also found on sale and bought a chunk of "quebracho" (axe breaker wood, Schinopsis lorentzii) which has the highest published Janka hardness, plus being highly rot resistant. Not so sure about wet dimensional stability of this one, going to try it as replacement handle scales on an old pocket knife I liked.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/quebracho-3-x-3-x-12

https://www.wood-database.com/quebracho/




Also found a small chunk of a South American hardwood which is way up there in density and hardness- Not sure about the species common name here, seller said it was imported as "Bocoa prouacensis". That's an obsolete name, I find conflicting information on what this stuff may properly be called.




The super hard, heavy, dense woods are probably going to be decorative ferules and end grain protecting butt caps on handles of lighter woods- Such as the heat stabilized maple, which is said to be somewhat brittle.


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## JoBone (Apr 20, 2019)

Off the top of my head, Here’s some I use unstablized. For all of them, I go for kiln dried if possible.

Most Rosewoods, but not rosewood burls : East Indies, Honduran, Bolivian, Yucatan, African Blackwood (my favorite for ferrules), Cocobolo

Bocote, some ziricote , Olive (kiln dried only) walnut (stabilize claro), red heart, bloodwood, zebrawood, leopardwood, Osage orange, katalox (not the light colored sap wood)

Ringed Gidgee
Dessert ironwood (not Asian ironwood burl, it needs stabilizing)

Paduak, Purple Heart, bubinga, Wenge (tough as heck), Marble wood, Partridge wood, Satinwood (not Asian satinwood burl, it’s a crepe myrtle)

You can see pictures of most on my instagram site or if there’s a particular wood, I can try to drum up a photo


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