# Which one?



## CoqaVin (Jun 10, 2013)

I am quite the avid reader but just decided to post as I am going to make a purchase soon...
I want two types of knives a laser type knife then one just to do the rough work pretty much...
Ok so the choices of lasers 

Richmomd AS Laser 240mm
Moritaka Supreme in AS 
Tanaka Damascus

Or anything anyonr else reccomends I know im going to get Kono HD2


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 10, 2013)

If I'm not mistaken, the Konosuke HD2 falls into the laser category.

BTW, welcome to KKF.

Rick


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## CoqaVin (Jun 10, 2013)

Knew i would get that...anything else?


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## unkajonet (Jun 10, 2013)

What is your budget?


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## Mucho Bocho (Jun 10, 2013)

The Richmond Laser in AS is pretty bad-ass for the cost. If i were you, i'd save one spot open for the KKF Gyuto. it is the prototype phase at this time but should be ready soon. I just purchased three knives including two gyutos and I can't wait till this knife becomes available.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 10, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> Knew i would get that...anything else?



You say you are getting a Konosuke HD2, yet you still want a recommendation for another laser? Is that right?


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## panda (Jun 10, 2013)

laser - tanaka damascus
rough work - tanaka ginsanko

=)


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## CoqaVin (Jun 10, 2013)

No no no reread i meant as for reccomendations i would get the kono as one....

Budget up to 250

Mucho Bocho what gyutos did u get?


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## CoqaVin (Jun 10, 2013)

panda said:


> laser - tanaka damascus
> rough work - tanaka ginsanko
> 
> =)



Tanaka supporter eh? :justkidding:


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## mhlee (Jun 10, 2013)

I would consider the Gesshin Ginga. It's actually a touch thicker than 2 mm at the spine above the heel so it's likely thicker than some of the lasers you may be looking at (I've never used either the Richmond, Moritaka or Tanaka), but I have a Ginga White #2 240 and I love it. 

What do you consider rough work? We've had similar threads recently.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/12710-Laser-VS-Workhorse?highlight=workhorse

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...uot-work-horse-quot-knife?highlight=workhorse


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## JBroida (Jun 10, 2013)

FWIW, the gesshin ginga is not thicker at the spine than the konosuke, richmond laser, or tanaka... moritaka can vary in spine thickness from knife to knife


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## CoqaVin (Jun 10, 2013)

JBroida said:


> FWIW, the gesshin ginga is not thicker at the spine than the konosuke, richmond laser, or tanaka... moritaka can vary in spine thickness from knife to knife


Is it considered a laser and perform like one what kinda steel how much?


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## Mucho Bocho (Jun 10, 2013)

I've got three custom Yusuke Gyuto's on order. 210, 240 and 270 in Swedish stainless, 61RC, flatter profile and 2.8mm at spine. I'll likely be keeping the 210 and 240 and will sell the 270. I've been holding my breath since September. 





CoqaVin said:


> No no no reread i meant as for reccomendations i would get the kono as one....
> 
> Budget up to 250
> 
> Mucho Bocho what gyutos did u get?


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## Chefdog (Jun 10, 2013)

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...o/gesshin-ginga-240mm-stainless-wa-gyuto.html


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## mhlee (Jun 10, 2013)

JBroida said:


> FWIW, the gesshin ginga is not thicker at the spine than the konosuke, richmond laser, or tanaka... moritaka can vary in spine thickness from knife to knife



My bad. I thought there might have been a slight difference in thickness because the Ginga feels stiffer and more solid than the Konosuke I handled _*years*_ ago.


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## CoqaVin (Jun 10, 2013)

Chefdog said:


> http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...o/gesshin-ginga-240mm-stainless-wa-gyuto.html



Do you own the GINGA and what steel is it doesnt say there...thin begind the edge?


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## stevenStefano (Jun 10, 2013)

What about a Carbonext?


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## CoqaVin (Jun 10, 2013)

stevenStefano said:


> What about a Carbonext?



Is the carbonext a laser even though i prefer wa


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## stevenStefano (Jun 10, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> Is the carbonext a laser even though i prefer wa



I have a Western Kono HD and a Carbonext and I'd say the Carbonext is a little thinner. It's pretty thin but not flexy which I like. It's also dead cheap


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## Chefdog (Jun 10, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> Do you own the GINGA and what steel is it doesnt say there...thin begind the edge?



I don't own one, just repeating what I've heard, sorry.


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## mkmk (Jun 10, 2013)

I like AS Moritakas for the price -- great steel, easy to sharpen, and I like the look and feel. I wouldn't call them a laser, though, even though they're generally reasonably thin at the spine. Like lots of kurouchi knives, they're pretty flat until you get down to the primary bevel, so the knife overall has more mass than something that is more gradually convexed, like a Konosuke (or lots of others).

Of those three, if you really want a laser, I'd go for the Richmond. Keep in mind that you're then in the same ballpark as a Gesshin Ginga, or a Konosuke HH funayuki/gyuto if you want something with the slimmer/lower tip. That's really what I'd go for.


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## mhlee (Jun 10, 2013)

mkmk said:


> I like AS Moritakas for the price -- great steel, easy to sharpen, and I like the look and feel. I wouldn't call them a laser, though, even though they're generally reasonably thin at the spine.  Like lots of kurouchi knives, they're pretty flat until you get down to the primary bevel, so the knife overall has more mass than something that is more gradually convexed, like a Konosuke (or lots of others).
> 
> Of those three, if you really want a laser, I'd go for the Richmond. Keep in mind that you're then in the same ballpark as a Gesshin Ginga, or a Konosuke HH funayuki/gyuto if you want something with the slimmer/lower tip. That's really what I'd go for.



Have you personally compared the Richmond Laser to the other knives you recommend it over? Why do you recommend the Richmond over the Ginga? 

Based on the grind issues we've seen here with various Richmond knives, unless you're sure that the grind is done well or better than the Ginga (for example), I would like to know why you would recommend the Laser over a Ginga. With a saya, the Richmond Laser is $10.00 more than the Ginga, which comes with a saya. 

I can personally attest to the fact that the Ginga is a very good cutter. I own the 240 White #2 gyuto. It's thin behind the edge, has excellent balance, is a very good cutter, very sharp OOTB, not very reactive and has great fit and finish, which is something that has been an issue with Richmond knives. As for the profile, the Ginga doesn't have much of a belly and although the tip may be higher (I can't personally say as I've never compared the two), the Ginga has a very nice profile in my opinion. In fact, it's my go to gyuto over the other gyutos that I own.


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## rdpx (Jun 10, 2013)

mhlee said:


> Have you personally compared the Richmond Laser to the other knives you recommend it over?



Read it again Michael. He is actually recommending the Gesshin or the Konusuke.


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## labor of love (Jun 10, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> Do you own the GINGA and what steel is it doesnt say there...thin begind the edge?



If your asking about the stainless version....Swedish steel hardened to RHC 61, sharpens easy, great edge retention, gets plenty sharp.
Also, I would like to add that due to the overall lightness of the knife many people that commonly use 240mm gyutos size up to 270mm for knives such as this one. And the blade lengths run alittle short.


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## CoqaVin (Jun 10, 2013)

labor of love said:


> If your asking about the stainless version....Swedish steel hardened to RHC 61, sharpens easy, great edge retention, gets plenty sharp.
> Also, I would like to add that due to the overall lightness of the knife many people that commonly use 240mm gyutos size up to 270mm for knives such as this one. And the blade lengths run alittle short.



What does it come in stainless, white#2 whats better cuttingwise


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## mhlee (Jun 10, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> What does it come in stainless, white#2 whats better cuttingwise



From what I recall Jon (of Japanese Knife Imports) saying, they're the same knife, just different steel. One is not necessarily going to be better aside from manufacturing variations. There may be differences in feel, and likely sharpening, edge retention, and such, but cutting performance is likely going to be extremely similar.


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## Lefty (Jun 10, 2013)

Both can split hairs.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 10, 2013)

Lefty said:


> Both can split hairs.



But can they split hares?


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## rdpx (Jun 10, 2013)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> But can they split hares?



LINK


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## mkmk (Jun 10, 2013)

rdpx said:


> Read it again Michael. He is actually recommending the Gesshin or the Konusuke.



Yup, that's what I meant: by the time you clear $200, the Gesshin or Konosuke start to become a lot more attractive. Hard to go wrong with either of them.

I really like the Konosuke funayuki/gyuto blade shape, so that would be the deciding factor.


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## Dave Martell (Jun 10, 2013)

Richmomd AS Laser 240mm - if it is <$50 might be worth considering

Moritaka Supreme in AS - whacked out grinds (7 out of 10) plus it's thick at the top of the blade road grind

Tanaka Damascus - of the three I like this. Try looking on JapaneseChefsKnife, BluewayJapan, or ebay, I think there's some good ones out there on one of these sites.


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## Lefty (Jun 10, 2013)

Tanakas are nice


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## chefcomesback (Jun 10, 2013)

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/xpwgj4zq5rsaeas/TvhH0ndF3L?n=181720308
Today I had a bit spare time and I have taken the pictures of Kono 240HH (not the Funayuki ) and Richmond Laser AS .
First of all Richmond Laser is thin behind the edge but as You can see from the pictures it is not a true laser. When I was looking for AS core SS clad Gyuto it become available and I bought it. Knowing they are made in Japan (probably by Konosuke ) and something similar (wa , AS ,SS clad ) would cost more I didn't mind buying it.
It is a good cutter , I like it being tall and it is not very reactive . It is 240+ mm as advertised 240 compared to being short with Kono being 236.
Handle is the really small for its size and food release is not very impressive . 
I You look at the pictures you can see how thin overall Kono is overall and behind the edge . Being convex food release is really good . I have the ebony handle which was a pricey upgrade but I know even the standart ho handle would be fine and made it lot lighter . 
Fit and Finish and Kono is really good altough with the increased sales some users are commenting the quality being not the same.
I haven't had Gesshin Ginga but having dealt with Jon couple times I m sure You will get a great product and all of your questions will be promptly answered. Plus even being slightly cheaper they come standart with sayas too. 
I do like the AS but I would remove the laser tag from it , if You are looking for true laser Gesshin ginga and Sakai Yusuke are your other alternatives (not putting Kono here as you already said you will be getting it)


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## labor of love (Jun 11, 2013)

FWIW I also think konosuke had their hand in the making of the Richmond laser. But that shouldn't matter at all to a potential buyer.


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## TheDispossessed (Jun 11, 2013)

i'll throw some more ginga love in the thread here. mine has been great to me


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## CoqaVin (Jun 11, 2013)

TheDispossessed said:


> i'll throw some more ginga love in the thread here. mine has been great to me



Ok still not sure which Ginga or maybe a Yusuke...but not to keen on the typical wa handle....who is the easiest cheapest nicest custom handle maker


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## stereo.pete (Jun 11, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> Ok still not sure which Ginga or maybe a Yusuke...but not to keen on the typical wa handle....who is the easiest cheapest nicest custom handle maker



You get what you pay for so choose wisely. There are many great handle makers on this forum, none of which I would consider "cheap" but they are reasonable for the amount of work that goes into a nice handle. I've had handles by Dave Martell, Marko and Mr. Henry, all of which have been fantastic!


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## CoqaVin (Jun 11, 2013)

stereo.pete said:


> You get what you pay for so choose wisely. There are many great handle makers on this forum, none of which I would consider "cheap" but they are reasonable for the amount of work that goes into a nice handle. I've had handles by Dave Martell, Marko and Mr. Henry, all of which have been fantastic!


Obviously not cheap but cheapest out of them like the newest is usually cheapest i just dont know who that could be


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## mhlee (Jun 11, 2013)

You may want to use your knife before you rehandle it. Wood used for rehandling is generally going to be noticeably heavier and denser than the magnolia (ho) wood that's generally used, so the balance of the knife may change with the new handle.

Since you're getting a laser, I'm going to go so far as say that changing the handle will most likely change the balance and feel of the knife, unless the maker/installer can get the new handle to the be close to the same weight as the original handle.


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## labor of love (Jun 11, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> Ok still not sure which Ginga or maybe a Yusuke...but not to keen on the typical wa handle....who is the easiest cheapest nicest custom handle maker



cheap nice custom handle maker is an oxymoron. if youre on a budget you might want to just worry about which blade suits you the best for the time being. I love gingas, sakai yusukes quite abit, konosuke almost as much.


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## CoqaVin (Jun 11, 2013)

labor of love said:


> cheap nice custom handle maker is an oxymoron. if youre on a budget you might want to just worry about which blade suits you the best for the time being. I love gingas, sakai yusukes quite abit, konosuke almost as much.



I was just saying maybe people who are not as established but make good custom handles would be cheaper that's all


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## mhlee (Jun 11, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> I was just saying maybe people who are not as established but make good custom handles would be cheaper that's all



There's a reason that people who are not established, are not established. There's also a reason why they're cheaper. 

Do you have a budget?


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## stevenStefano (Jun 11, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> I was just saying maybe people who are not as established but make good custom handles would be cheaper that's all



I get what you're saying, but in this case you definitely want someone who knows what they're doing. It takes a lot of know-how, expertise and experience to get handles just right. I've seen many that just look plain wrong and you don't want to end up with something like that


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## CoqaVin (Jun 11, 2013)

stevenStefano said:


> I get what you're saying, but in this case you definitely want someone who knows what they're doing. It takes a lot of know-how, expertise and experience to get handles just right. I've seen many that just look plain wrong and you don't want to end up with something like that



I hear ya...its not something u want to cheap out on


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## chinacats (Jun 11, 2013)

The best deal that I've seen for both a nice laser and a handle to suit may be the Gesshin Ginga with special re-handle service available at JKI here. The handle will be installed properly and you will have one badass knife. 

Also curious if you will be sharpening these knives yourself?

Cheers


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## WiscoNole (Jun 12, 2013)

I'll make a suggestion that some may consider outdated...Tadatsuna. My 270 gyuto as thin as most of the 240's I've had. The 240 gyuto is a laser by any standards. They have the nicest stock wa handles around, considering the mosaic pin. The accompanying saya is also well above average, in terms of quality. It sharpens in a flash and gets absurdly sharp. I have Tadatsunas and have had/tried all the newer, trendier knives, and it stacks up. Some may say you can get better for cheaper, but I think they are worth the price.


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## easy13 (Jun 12, 2013)

Tanaka Damascus is quite nice but the handle on it is pretty garbage.


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## CoqaVin (Jun 12, 2013)

yea at a good price as well...maybe b/c it is at a good price I can afford to do a rehandle since it is garbage


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