# Need help buying new sharpening equipment from the ground-up



## jurassicpark (Mar 26, 2021)

So before I get into more detail, I want to give a little context. I'm someone who's used fairly cheap Japanese knives for a while now, and have been sharpening them on. first a King 1000, and now a Shapton Pro 1000 for the past year that I had borrowed from a relative. I've since had to give it back, and with new knives arriving, I want to buy brand new sharpening equipment. I would like to say I'm decent with sharpening. My skill level is certainly not the best, but proficient.

Now, all the grits and various equipment that's available has been overwhelming. I've only used a 1000 grit up until now, mainly because the knives I had beforehand wouldn't be worth taking much higher, but now, with knives that can take advantage of those higher grits, I feel as though I wouldn't be utilizing them to their full potential without the right sharpening equipment. Here is some of the equipment that I'm looking at:

Honing Rod (I really don't think these are necessary as I was fine without them previously, but feel free to correct me)
Coarse Grit Stone
Medium Grit Stone
Fine Grit Stone
Flattening Stone
Leather Strop
I don't want anything that is unnecessary, as the last thing I want is to clog up my closet to be full of this stuff. As for budget, I don't have anything in particular in mind; I've already spent quite some money on the knives, so I'm not willing to skimp on the necessary equipment.

I'm completely clueless about this stuff apart from the absolute basics (like grit and splash'n'go vs soak), so I would love some help here. Maybe we should start by just deciding what pieces equipment I'm going to buy, and then the various options within each category. Some help would be really awesome, and I look forward to all your replies!


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## HumbleHomeCook (Mar 26, 2021)

Let's start with do you have a preference for soakers or splash and go?

Also, not everyone is going to be aware of what knives you have coming so steel types and shapes will likely help as well.


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## Bigbbaillie (Mar 26, 2021)

For strop you can just use newspaper, cardboard, or denim - wouldn't bother spending money on leather strop imo. Honing rod won't do much for you (for the most part) unless you are pro, it's just something for on the fly.

If I were you I would probably buy something like SG500 or a 1k, sp2000, and a 4k or higher for finishing stone. Heard good things about sg4k if you want to stay all one brand. Atoma 140 is a solid choice for flattening stone. If you just wanna keep things sharp that will get you there for all kinds of steels.


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## KingShapton (Mar 26, 2021)

As you wrote, you have used 2 very contrasting stones in the past, the King 1K and the Shapton Pro 1K.

The King is a soaker, is a little "softer", forms mud, is a little slower than the Shapton and has to be flattened more often.

The Shapton is splash & go, is much harder, does not form mud, is very fast and has to be flattened significantly less often.

Which stone did you like more and which types of steels will you sharpen in the future?


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## 4wa1l (Mar 26, 2021)

I'm not the best sharpener but have the Naniwa chosera/pro/gouken arata (basically same stones just different thicknesses and a base on the chosera) 800 and 3k and really like them. Both are a bit finer than the stated grit. A little more expensive than the Shaptons but will cover you for most steels and knives if they're not super dull or need a lot of work.


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## jurassicpark (Mar 26, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Let's start with do you have a preference for soakers or splash and go?
> 
> Also, not everyone is going to be aware of what knives you have coming so steel types and shapes will likely help as well.



I wouldn't mind getting a soak stone if it has more feedback that I'm looking for. Apparently some stones could permasoak, so that would be nice.

As for steel types, I have Ginsanko, Aogami Super and SKD/HD2-like (Sanjo YS) steel.


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## Michi (Mar 26, 2021)

For soaking stones, I really like my Cerax 1000 and 3000, and the Rika 5000. Really nice feel and feedback. They will sharpen anything, including very hard PM steels.


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## jurassicpark (Mar 27, 2021)

OK, so I've looked around, and it seems as though the Gesshin 2K is held in very high regard around here. How would it compare to a stone like the Chosera 800, and what advantages do soakers have over S&G? Also, can the Gesshins be permasoaked?


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## BillHanna (Mar 27, 2021)

Stone Review Thread - 800 to 2000 Grit Synthetic Stones


I’ve used a lot of stones in this range, but each has their purpose, so I struggle to get rid of them despite the massive amount of redundancy in my collection… Here are my findings on them. As always, please feel free to share your reviews on any stones in this grit range you’ve used. Without...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## inferno (Mar 27, 2021)

jurassicpark said:


> Coarse Grit Stone
> Medium Grit Stone
> Fine Grit Stone
> Flattening Stone
> Leather Strop



it depends on what coarse means to you.

i like the combo of 500 and 3k from the shapton glass series.
add a 6-12k as a finisher for carbon steel.
atoma 160 or 140 whatever it is.
stone holder.

done.


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## jurassicpark (Mar 27, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> As you wrote, you have used 2 very contrasting stones in the past, the King 1K and the Shapton Pro 1K.
> 
> The King is a soaker, is a little "softer", forms mud, is a little slower than the Shapton and has to be flattened more often.
> 
> ...



Somehow missed this question, sorry about that. Now I personally preferred the Shapton, but it was less because the Shapton was incredible and more so that King kinda sucked. For one, it would leave this muddish brown water everywhere, it took quite long to sharpen, and from a convenince standpoint it was easier to just splash with water rather than have it soak for a while. However, I did prefer the feel of the King over the Shapton, with the King it felt like I was making a difference but with the Shapton it felt like I was getting nowhere (even though I certainly was ). Hope that helps


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## KingShapton (Mar 27, 2021)

jurassicpark said:


> Somehow missed this question, sorry about that. Now I personally preferred the Shapton, but it was less because the Shapton was incredible and more so that King kinda sucked. For one, it would leave this muddish brown water everywhere, it took quite long to sharpen, and from a convenince standpoint it was easier to just splash with water rather than have it soak for a while. However, I did prefer the feel of the King over the Shapton, with the King it felt like I was making a difference but with the Shapton it felt like I was getting nowhere (even though I certainly was ). Hope that helps


That helps, but it doesn't make it any easier, initially. But we can narrow it down further ..

If I summarize, then I come to the following result:

From a convenience point of view, you like splash & go, you like fast stones, but you also value feedback ?! And you don't like stones that create a lot of mud ?!

With the splash & go factor and your remaining likes and dislikes, the simplest answer would be Naniwa Professional / Chosera, although that wouldn't be my first choice, but my personal preferences play a role here.

If soakers come into question, take a look at the King Hyper 1000 (regular hard), which is harder and faster than the standard King 1000, gives good feedback and also works very well with stainless steels. However, that also generates mud ... alternatively, as a soaker, the Best 1200 would be an idea. You can find a lot of information about both stones here in the forum.


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## big_adventure (Mar 27, 2021)

If you didn't like the feel of the Shapton, I would perhaps look into the Chosera / Naniwa Pros. The 800/3K progression should take care of everything you need to do if you don't let your knives get too screwed up. 

To me, they have a better feel than the SGs, and are also splash and go stones.

The Atoma 140 is the classic flattening plate that probably 80% or more of us use.

For thinning and coarse work, I use SG220 and Chosera 400. I use all splash and go stones, because soaking is a bit of a pain living in a Paris apartment, and perma-soaking is right out of the question.


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## KingShapton (Mar 27, 2021)

jurassicpark said:


> Here is some of the equipment that I'm looking at:
> 
> Honing Rod (I really don't think these are necessary as I was fine without them previously, but feel free to correct me)
> Coarse Grit Stone
> ...


Honing Rod - I don't think you will need this.

Coarse, medium and fine stone absolutely makes sense, how fine your finishing stone will be is again a question of the steels and personal preferences. I myself prefer a finish (for synthetic stones) between 2-5K, so I'm simply more versatile.


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## jurassicpark (Mar 27, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> That helps, but it doesn't make it any easier, initially. But we can narrow it down further ..
> 
> If I summarize, then I come to the following result:
> 
> ...



I certainly wouldn't mind a soaking stone, especially if I can permasoak with it. Either way, not a big deal on that front, just a small preference. As for the mud issue, it is certainly annoying, but I'm willing to live with it for better feedback. However, I certainly want the stones to be reasonably fast. Another thing I hated with the King was I would constantly have to flatten the surface, so a stone that wouldn't dip in the middle as much would be nice. I think that the Gesshin 2000 looks like something I'd be really into.


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## jurassicpark (Mar 27, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> Honing Rod - I don't think you will need this.
> 
> Coarse, medium and fine stone absolutely makes sense, how fine your finishing stone will be is again a question of the steels and personal preferences. I myself prefer a finish (for synthetic stones) between 2-5K, so I'm simply more versatile.



First of all, what about strops? I've seen some people say they are important, others say they are completely unnecessary.

The other question is regarding the diamond flattener. Is it necessary? And if it is, could I use it as a makeshift coarse grit stone, and skip the coarse grit altogether?


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## KingShapton (Mar 27, 2021)

big_adventure said:


> I would perhaps look into the Chosera / Naniwa Pros. The 800/3K progression should take care of everything you need to do if you don't let your knives get too screwed up.


The Naniwa Chosera / Professional 2K is significantly cheaper than the 3K and should finish in the 3K range. If you want to keep the cost of the purchase lower then the 2K would be worth considering.


jurassicpark said:


> I certainly wouldn't mind a soaking stone, especially if I can permasoak with it. Either way, not a big deal on that front, just a small preference. As for the mud issue, it is certainly annoying, but I'm willing to live with it for better feedback. However, I certainly want the stones to be reasonably fast. Another thing I hated with the King was I would constantly have to flatten the surface, so a stone that wouldn't dip in the middle as much would be nice. I think that the Gesshin 2000 looks like something I'd be really into.


The Gesshin stones have an excellent reputation and Jon Broida, the owner of JKI, is a highly respected and competent dealer and sharpener.

Unfortunately, I have no personal experience with the Gesshin Stones, there are some other members here who can say more about it from their own experience.


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## KingShapton (Mar 27, 2021)

big_adventure said:


> I would perhaps look into the Chosera / Naniwa Pros. The 800/3K progression should take care of everything you need to do if you don't let your knives get too screwed up.


The Naniwa Chosera / Professional 2K is significantly cheaper than the 3K and should finish in the 3K range. If you want to keep the cost of the purchase lower then the 2K would be worth considering.


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## KingShapton (Mar 27, 2021)

jurassicpark said:


> First of all, what about strops? I've seen some people say they are important, others say they are completely unnecessary.
> 
> The other question is regarding the diamond flattener. Is it necessary? And if it is, could I use it as a makeshift coarse grit stone, and skip the coarse grit altogether?


Strops are another thing, some like them, some don't. I myself use bare leather now and then. Try it out for yourself, it cannot be generalized.

You can also use the diamond flattening plate as a rough stone, but it will wear out faster. And # 140 is very rough, in addition, diamond causes very deep scratches. In my opinion, you are better served with a separate, coarse stone.


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## big_adventure (Mar 27, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> Strops are another thing, some like them, some don't. I myself use bare leather now and then. Try it out for yourself, it cannot be generalized.
> 
> You can also use the diamond flattening plate as a rough stone, but it will wear out faster. And # 140 is very rough, in addition, diamond causes very deep scratches. In my opinion, you are better served with a separate, coarse stone.



I agree completely with this. I used my Atoma 140 once for fast stone thinning when my Chosera 400 was just way too slow. It's actually why I bought the SG220.  The Atoma was fast, but leaves nasty scratches and feels awful, plus, it will wear very quickly on knives and it's just too expensive for that use.

I do strop on leather, like 5 strokes each way on rough leather and 5 each way on smooth leather. Not more - I'm not sharpening straight razors.

That said, I've also stropped on the jeans I'm wearing at the time and that works too. As does a piece of cardboard from your last Amazon Prime shipment.


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## jurassicpark (Mar 27, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> Strops are another thing, some like them, some don't. I myself use bare leather now and then. Try it out for yourself, it cannot be generalized.
> 
> You can also use the diamond flattening plate as a rough stone, but it will wear out faster. And # 140 is very rough, in addition, diamond causes very deep scratches. In my opinion, you are better served with a separate, coarse stone.



The thing is, I don't think I will need to ever use a coarse stone, as I'll make sure to stay on top of things and am not sharpening other people's knives. As for thinning, I don't see me having to deal with that for quite a while. I feel like in the case that one of my knives chips, I could get away with using the Atoma. I certainly don't plan on ever using it for sharpening at any point.

Also, on a side note, what is the appeal of JNats? I've been seeing them mentioned everywhere, so I wanted to know more about them.


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## big_adventure (Mar 27, 2021)

jurassicpark said:


> The thing is, I don't think I will need to ever use a coarse stone, as I'll make sure to stay on top of things and am not sharpening other people's knives. As for thinning, I don't see me having to deal with that for quite a while. I feel like in the case that one of my knives chips, I could get away with using the Atoma. I certainly don't plan on ever using it for sharpening at any point.



That's probably fine - as long as you stay on top of the situation, you never need to go below 800/1000. And if you do damage something and want t fix it, an SG220 is only 50 or so on Amazon or wherever you buy your stones.



jurassicpark said:


> Also, on a side note, what is the appeal of JNats? I've been seeing them mentioned everywhere, so I wanted to know more about them.



Oh, I'm no expert there, but that's an even deeper and crazier rabbit hole. Good luck with that - that's the one rule I've stuck to in the knife game - no Jnats.


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## jurassicpark (Mar 27, 2021)

big_adventure said:


> That's probably fine - as long as you stay on top of the situation, you never need to go below 800/1000. And if you do damage something and want t fix it, an SG220 is only 50 or so on Amazon or wherever you buy your stones.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm no expert there, but that's an even deeper and crazier rabbit hole. Good luck with that - that's the one rule I've stuck to in the knife game - no Jnats.



Would you say I could just skip completely on the flattening stone, or is it something that you would deem necessary? One of the things I worked on with the Shapton was using the whole stone so that I wouldn't need to flatten as often (I used sandpaper in that case). Say if I was going with the Gesshin 2K, would I find myself ever really needing to flatten? And if not, is getting the Atoma a good idea for any other reason?


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Mar 27, 2021)

Hi OP, 

I think I have experience with all of the stones you mentioned, including Cerax, King, Shapton Pro, Shapton Glass, Gesshin and most of the stones mentioned in this thread. May I preface with two things: 1. All of these are quality stones, and will get your knives shaving sharp - provided your technique is good enough. 2. It's basically all personal preference, and thus hard to recommend something. 
I get the feeling that feedback and speed is your main priority, and that you don't like very muddy stones. S&G vs soakers seems to be not that important. Also, you are located in the US. Given all of that, I would tend to recommend JKI or Naniwa Pro. Even though the Shapton Pro and Glass are great stones (I have a couple of them myself), I still prefer other stones in terms of feedback. The Cerax 1k is one of the most underrated stones, great feedback, good speed, excellent tactile feel, makes a great 1-2 punch with the Rika 5k, and gives you a nice looking finish as well. But both stones are somewhat muddy (though less than the King). The Nano Hone stones could be another option, but I have only used the 200 grit stone (which is very nice).
I think you'd be very happy with Naniwa Pro 800 + 3k (only downside: not cheap and prone to cracking). However, I'd recommend the Gesshin 2k and 6k soaker to you. You can definitely permasoak them, they are very fast for their grit ratings, have excellent feedback, are a bit larger than the Naniwa stones, not prone to cracking and JKI is super highly recommended. I'd rather support Jon than anyone else. Extremely helpful, knowledgeable, and friendly. Plus you are in the US and don't have to deal with crazy shipping and customs costs. The 2k feels harder than I had expected, you won't have to flatten it very often. The only minor downside to this stone might be that it is rather thirsty and that it can load a bit with certain steels (but that doesn't slow down cutting speed). The 6k soaker is an excellent finisher (his 4k, 6k s&g, and synthetic natural stones are highly regarded as well). It feels very creamy, great feedback, very fast, nice edge. And, while you order from JKI, you could get their diamond flattening plate. I think a diamond flattening plate is pretty much essential, and I would use it only for flattening your stones.

Hope this helps!


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## big_adventure (Mar 27, 2021)

jurassicpark said:


> Would you say I could just skip completely on the flattening stone, or is it something that you would deem necessary? One of the things I worked on with the Shapton was using the whole stone so that I wouldn't need to flatten as often (I used sandpaper in that case). Say if I was going with the Gesshin 2K, would I find myself ever really needing to flatten? And if not, is getting the Atoma a good idea for any other reason?



You don't NEED a flattening plate, it will just make your life easier.

You can absolutely flatten stones by rubbing two stones together. - Cost: FREE - sort of - it will wear your stones somewhat faster, but as a home user, stones are not that far from "lifetime" as far as durability goes.

You can absolutely flatten stones using just a nagura. - Cost: possibly FREE, if your stones come with naguras.

You can absolutely flatten stones by finding a clean, flat place on a concrete sidewalk or driveway and using that. - Cost: FREE

You can buy a flattening stone that isn't diamond and expensive: you can find them for 20 bucks or so, tops. - Cost: variable, probably between 10 and 40 dollars.

You can make your own flattening plate by sticking a piece of durable sandpaper onto a flat plate (glass, ceramic, metal - as you like). - Cost: you can probably build this for 5 to 20 bucks.

All of these are viable solutions. All of them are cheaper than an Atoma 140. None of them are as fast or as easy to use as the Atoma.


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## jurassicpark (Mar 27, 2021)

Kitchen-Samurai said:


> Hi OP,
> 
> I think I have experience with all of the stones you mentioned, including Cerax, King, Shapton Pro, Shapton Glass, Gesshin and most of the stones mentioned in this thread. May I preface with two things: 1. All of these are quality stones, and will get your knives shaving sharp - provided your technique is good enough. 2. It's basically all personal preference, and thus hard to recommend something.
> I get the feeling that feedback and speed is your main priority, and that you don't like very muddy stones. S&G vs soakers seems to be not that important. Also, you are located in the US. Given all of that, I would tend to recommend JKI or Naniwa Pro. Even though the Shapton Pro and Glass are great stones (I have a couple of them myself), I still prefer other stones in terms of feedback. The Cerax 1k is one of the most underrated stones, great feedback, good speed, excellent tactile feel, makes a great 1-2 punch with the Rika 5k, and gives you a nice looking finish as well. But both stones are somewhat muddy (though less than the King). The Nano Hone stones could be another option, but I have only used the 200 grit stone (which is very nice).
> ...



These were the two sets of stones I had on my watch, and it's great that everything I had in mind has been reinforced. Thanks a ton!


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## jurassicpark (Mar 27, 2021)

Kitchen-Samurai said:


> Hi OP,
> 
> I think I have experience with all of the stones you mentioned, including Cerax, King, Shapton Pro, Shapton Glass, Gesshin and most of the stones mentioned in this thread. May I preface with two things: 1. All of these are quality stones, and will get your knives shaving sharp - provided your technique is good enough. 2. It's basically all personal preference, and thus hard to recommend something.
> I get the feeling that feedback and speed is your main priority, and that you don't like very muddy stones. S&G vs soakers seems to be not that important. Also, you are located in the US. Given all of that, I would tend to recommend JKI or Naniwa Pro. Even though the Shapton Pro and Glass are great stones (I have a couple of them myself), I still prefer other stones in terms of feedback. The Cerax 1k is one of the most underrated stones, great feedback, good speed, excellent tactile feel, makes a great 1-2 punch with the Rika 5k, and gives you a nice looking finish as well. But both stones are somewhat muddy (though less than the King). The Nano Hone stones could be another option, but I have only used the 200 grit stone (which is very nice).
> ...



The other thing I wanted to look into are JNats. Before anything, I want to know why they are held in such high regard over here. Do they leave a better edge, have a superior feel, etc?


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## HumbleHomeCook (Mar 27, 2021)

If you're waffling on getting a course stone, I wouldn't bother looking into naturals. Those are more of a "down the road" thing if you ask me.

Cover your basics first and your basics include a coarse stone and at some point, now or later, you're going to get a flattening plate of some kind.

I grew up on coarse stones, as in it was very common to _finish_ on a 400 so I have some bias but I always default to coarser over finer if purchasing choices have to be made.

Yesterday was a good example of why I like having a coarser stone available. I had done some thinning on a bunka and wanted to finish by touching up the edge. At that point I had my SG2k out and went through my routine. I normally love this stone and this particular knife was last finished on it. But, for whatever reason, I was not on my game and I wasn't entirely pleased with the edge in all spots. Now, I could keep working on the 2k and maybe I'd get it or maybe I'd just keep flustering myself. So, out comes the SG500, relax & refocus, okay bevel back where I like it, few runs back on the 2k, strop and done.

In other words, get a coarse stone.


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## jurassicpark (Mar 27, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> If you're waffling on getting a course stone, I wouldn't bother looking into naturals. Those are more of a "down the road" thing if you ask me.
> 
> Cover your basics first and your basics include a coarse stone and at some point, now or later, you're going to get a flattening plate of some kind.
> 
> ...



OK then. I might go for the Gesshin 3-pc (unless you have any other suggestions) with an Atoma 140. Thanks y'all for all your help.


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 27, 2021)

I have a basic stone collection including a Gesshin 4K, and a couple of Jnats, plus a a 600 grit diamond plate which I use to raise a slurry and for flattening. I don't have any lower grit stones and wanted to acquire a couple of synthetics and some better Jnats for thinning, progression and kasumi.
I was lucky to catch a great live stream from Bryan Racquin the other day. Detailed breakdown of his sharpening and polishing progression to achieve his fast and effective kasumi finish.
He said his most important stone is the Naniwa Chosera 400
After seeing James @KnS very informative YT comparo of 1K stones I will be getting 1 or 2 Naniwa's and a King Hyper 2K.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Mar 27, 2021)

jurassicpark said:


> OK then. I might go for the Gesshin 3-pc (unless you have any other suggestions) with an Atoma 140. Thanks y'all for all your help.



I will defer to other folks on the specific stones, they are far more experienced with them than I am. I would say to look at CKTG's diamond flattening plate. Not as high quality as the Atoma but much less expensive and will likely fill your needs just fine.


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## dafox (Mar 27, 2021)

Michi said:


> For soaking stones, I really like my Cerax 1000 and 3000, and the Rika 5000. Really nice feel and feedback. They will sharpen anything, including very hard PM steels.


Is there anytime you need the Cerax 3000 between the 1000 and Rika? Is it ever too big of a jump?


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## Koop (Mar 27, 2021)

I use a double time flattening stone from SharpeningSupplies. It's large, relatively inexpensive and works great. It has two grits - very coarse and coarse.


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## M1k3 (Mar 27, 2021)

Maybe Nanohone? Splash and go. Not very muddy. Slightly better feeling in use.


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## inferno (Mar 27, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> I have a basic stone collection including a Gesshin 4K, and a couple of Jnats, plus a a 600 grit diamond plate which I use to raise a slurry and for flattening. I don't have any lower grit stones and wanted to acquire a couple of synthetics and some better Jnats for thinning, progression and kasumi.
> I was lucky to catch a great live stream from Bryan Racquin the other day. Detailed breakdown of his sharpening and polishing progression to achieve his fast and effective kasumi finish.
> He said his most important stone is the Naniwa Chosera 400
> After seeing James @KnS very informative YT comparo of 1K stones I will be getting 1 or 2 Naniwa's and a King Hyper 2K.



i recommend the 800 over the 1k. its a much better and useful stone. 
also the 2k is very good, 3k-ish. and cheaper than the 3k. very good kasumi finish too.

king hyper 1k normal is also nice for a soaker. but i just sold mine.


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## inferno (Mar 27, 2021)

dafox said:


> Is there anytime you need the Cerax 3000 between the 1000 and Rika? Is it ever too big of a jump?



its a good finishing stone on its own imo. talking the ouka. but these should be the same.
i can recommend the 8k cerax. very good edges out of that one. 

you can take pretty much any blade from 1 to 12k if you want to in a very short time. 

i took an s30v folder from 220 to 12k in like 5 minutes... it would have helped having a 1-3k in between though. but its completely doable.


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 27, 2021)

inferno said:


> i recommend the 800 over the 1k. its a much better and useful stone.
> also the 2k is very good, 3k-ish. and cheaper than the 3k. very good kasumi finish too.
> 
> king hyper 1k normal is also nice for a soaker. but i just sold mine.


Yes after reading the reviews I'm going with the 800. Having owned the Gesshin 4K for a couple of years I've decided I prefer non-soakers.


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## dafox (Mar 27, 2021)

inferno said:


> it depends on what coarse means to you.
> 
> i like the combo of 500 and 3k from the shapton glass series.
> add a 6-12k as a finisher for carbon steel.
> ...


After hearing you reccomend the SG3000 so many times I bought one today, and a 220 for good measure! Now i have 6 SG stones between 220 and 4000


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## Michi (Mar 27, 2021)

dafox said:


> Is there anytime you need the Cerax 3000 between the 1000 and Rika? Is it ever too big of a jump?


No, going from 1000 to 5000 is perfectly fine. It’s just that I finish at 3000 on some knives, and 5000 on others.


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## inferno (Mar 27, 2021)

dafox said:


> After hearing you reccomend the SG3000 so many times I bought one today, and a 220 for good measure! Now i have 6 SG stones between 220 and 4000



the 3k is my favorite glass i think.


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## Rangen (Mar 27, 2021)

jurassicpark said:


> The other thing I wanted to look into are JNats. Before anything, I want to know why they are held in such high regard over here. Do they leave a better edge, have a superior feel, etc?



JNats are a very complicated subject. You can just ignore them, and your current task will be simpler; no one needs a JNat, and you are gearing up to fulfill basic sharpening needs, so it's not the right time.

I understand the curiosity, though, and I'll try to help. But they are difficult to summarize. There are many different types, many different origin mines, and a great deal of variation even within the same exact type and origin mine. One easy thing I can say is that very very few people would recommend coarse JNats. So we're really talking about maybe the equivalent of a 2000 synthetic, and up.

Do they leave a better edge? Yes, often. The mixture of grits allows you to get interesting mixtures of keenness and bite in your edge not possible with a synthetic.

Do they have a superior feel? In my opinion, yes, usually, sometimes vastly. This is a big part of why I love them. 

Are there pitfalls to embarking into JNats? Oh, yes. Tons. There's a whole thread about that, and it is not short. Read it before you consider buying one. Then read some more JNat threads. Pretty much any level of research you put in before buying your first JNat will be rewarded. But if you don't want to do that, buy a blue Aoto or an Aizu from a reputable dealer, and play with it.


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## Rangen (Mar 27, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I will defer to other folks on the specific stones, they are far more experienced with them than I am. I would say to look at CKTG's diamond flattening plate. Not as high quality as the Atoma but much less expensive and will likely fill your needs just fine.



I've wondered about that. People say that stone flattening can be done just fine with a played-out diamond plate, so why not a cheap diamond plate? Before I got the Nanohone wonder flattener, I was using some played-out diamond plates that I've had for 20 years, some sort of 3M stuff with little circles, mounted to flat aluminum plates. I still use them to slurry sometimes. They are useless for taking off metal anymore, but great for this purpose.

Maybe the cheap plates would shed diamonds and otherwise behave abominably, but you have to wonder why they couldn't do as well as my hideously worn out old plates.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Mar 27, 2021)

Rangen said:


> I've wondered about that. People say that stone flattening can be done just fine with a played-out diamond plate, so why not a cheap diamond plate? Before I got the Nanohone wonder flattener, I was using some played-out diamond plates that I've had for 20 years, some sort of 3M stuff with little circles, mounted to flat aluminum plates. I still use them to slurry sometimes. They are useless for taking off metal anymore, but great for this purpose.
> 
> Maybe the cheap plates would shed diamonds and otherwise behave abominably, but you have to wonder why they couldn't do as well as my hideously worn out old plates.



I have the CKTG plate. Only had it a couple months and it is my first plate bought for flattening so I don't have much for comparison but time will tell.


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## inferno (Mar 27, 2021)

i have the finer of the 2 dmt diaflat plates and this is the most premium plate imo. it has an industrial hard coat to bond the diamonds to the plate. where all other plates are just diamond in nickel plating. this coating usually used in high speed wheels when sharpening milling tools and such. because regular nickel plating will wear out too fast.

however even a plate like this will wear smooth and lose bite!! and the more hard stones you do and the more blade flattenings you do they faster it wears out. 

i've had mine for about 2-3 years and now it feels very smooth and unagressive. i put an unhardened blade on it last week to flatten it before hardening, and it basically has no bite at all. the shapton 220 was like a lazer sword in comparison.

i regard them as consumables and thats what they are.

for heavy duty work on stones i prefer to use coarse SiC stones with SiC powder and powder on glass.
sandpaper on glass will work too (i get the best effect on dry stones).


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## inferno (Mar 27, 2021)

dafox said:


> Is there anytime you need the Cerax 3000 between the 1000 and Rika? Is it ever too big of a jump?



do you remember this goodie from one of the diamond threads?

this would have been 10 times faster if it was carbon steel.

srs15 220 then 12k. 4 minutes.










then s30v 220 then 12k.


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## Mr.Wizard (Mar 27, 2021)

For a coarse stone give serious consideration to an unusual option: the Zandstra Foss 7205 speed-skating stone. It is a very good, large, two-sided silicon carbine stone, for use with water or oil.





__





Multiple waterstone review, chisel from dinged to sharp


25 minute look at some of my favorite workhorse stones for woodworking and utility sharpening. Sharpening chisel and Vic utility knife using: Zandstra Foss combination stone 800 and 2k Juuma G8 Suehiro Rika The Juumas are still listed on Dieter Schmid website although they are out of stock -...




www.bladeforums.com


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## GorillaGrunt (Mar 29, 2021)

I’ve been through a number of Atomas in a few grits. It’s not a bad thing to have around especially for flattening stones once you’ve already allowed them to dish; the CKTG diamond plate clogs up so quickly even under running water I’d say it’s not even worth the try. That said I get better results resurfacing stones with the Norton grooved stone fixer, especially coarser stones. I always thought those products were the same role as a diamond plate but inferior: it was actually an eye opening experience getting and using one.

on Gesshin, anything sold at JKI will always be good and you can take Jon’s advice to the bank. Something else might suit you better at some point but he doesn’t stock any crappy products. I’ve got the Maido splash and go set, 2k and 7k with a Gesshin 320, and I doubt I strictly needed any more stones than that. Wanted a whole bunch though


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## branwell (Mar 30, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I have the CKTG plate. Only had it a couple months and it is my first plate bought for flattening so I don't have much for comparison but time will tell.



I've used one of those for about 6 years now for flattening. Still going strong and it gets used at least 3 times a week.


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## branwell (Mar 30, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> the CKTG diamond plate clogs up so quickly even under running water I’d say it’s not even worth the try.



I've used the CKTG 140 plate for flattening for 6+ years with running water and have never seen it clog up even a little on stones like Shapton, King, Nubatama, Naniwa, Suhiro, Aoto etc.


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## GorillaGrunt (Mar 30, 2021)

branwell said:


> I've used the CKTG 140 plate for flattening for 6+ years with running water and have never seen it clog up even a little on stones like Shapton, King, Nubatama, Naniwa, Suhiro, Aoto etc.



Are there different ones? Mine was the one from the beginner sharpening kit, and it could also be user error on my end


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Mar 30, 2021)

inferno said:


> for heavy duty work on stones i prefer to use coarse SiC stones with SiC powder and powder on glass.
> sandpaper on glass will work too (i get the best effect on dry stones).


Could you elaborate a little bit on the dry stones? Are you saying that you use a Crystolon with loose SiC to lap another stone and all is dry?


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## inferno (Mar 30, 2021)

VICTOR J CREAZZI said:


> Could you elaborate a little bit on the dry stones? Are you saying that you use a Crystolon with loose SiC to lap another stone and all is dry?



i use sic powder between my stone and a 100 grit sic stone. wet.

the sandpaper i use dry.


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Mar 30, 2021)

jurassicpark said:


> OK then. I might go for the Gesshin 3-pc (unless you have any other suggestions) with an Atoma 140. Thanks y'all for all your help.



Look at Jon's Diamond Flattening Plate, (not the Large Flattening Plate, which is huge,) especially if you're already ordering stones at JKI. It works very well and is cheaper than the Atoma plates.


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## Bolek (Mar 31, 2021)

If I was going this way again I'll directly start with vitrified diamond stone. e.g. the #2000 from Practical sharpening (contact them by email the web sie ius not up to date) is fast enough and my is still flat. Then strop if needed.


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