# Down to three.... Maskage Mizu/Masakage Yuki/Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan?



## jonhaber (Oct 22, 2012)

Basically looking at:

Maskage Mizu - http://www.knifewear.com/knife-family.asp?family=19 - unclad blue #2 - $230 with a new handle - local buy (I hate the cheapo handle it comes with)
Masakage Yuki - http://www.knifewear.com/knife-family.asp?family=18 - white #1? Shirogami clad with stainless - $215 local buy
Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan - http://japanesechefsknife.com/FurinkazanW1Series.html - white # 1 clad with stainless - $240 + duty? online

After looking all day I like these three knives and I think are actually in my price range. I am not sure why knifewear.com lists the yuki as awesome and the mizu as awesomer (any ideas). The yuki and furinkazan look very very similar. I like that the later can be requested thin which appeals to me.

If you have seen any of my other posts you probably know I am looking at a *240mm Gyuto for home cooking* as my first real japanese knife to be used in place of my current shun sanoku.

Suggestions / recommendations?

THX! This form is awesome.
Jon


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## jonhaber (Oct 22, 2012)

I am leaning to the Yuki after reading http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/876534/tp/1/ about white #1. It is also the cheapest option. Just wondering how much "thinner" a thin fu-rin-ka-zan would be over the yuki. I am guessing not even noticeable?


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## stevenStefano (Oct 22, 2012)

Where are you based? Perhaps going to a vendor or speaking to them by phone would be a good idea


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## shankster (Oct 22, 2012)

Looks like he's based out of Calgary/Alberta,or parts there about...

Agree with Stefan.Go to the shop(Knifeware) and talk to the proprietor,handle the merchandise.It's always a good thing if you can support local purveyors when you can.


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## jonhaber (Oct 22, 2012)

Ya I have been to knifewear in Calgary several times already  Talked to a bunch of the guys there and tried a bunch of knives however last time I just bought a hone. An older guy there was recommending the mizu but I didn't like the handle. The next two he recommended were double the price, $300ish, so I didn't just go for one 
I went to a nice shop in Toronto a couple weeks back too but forget the name. Also went to hacker and crane and he just told me how crappy a lot of the japanese knives were.

I am sure I am annoying the heck out of the guys in Calgary already. I am really just stressing cause I am a student and shouldn't be spending $200 bucks on a knife I don't really need but want badly for some reason. I blame the internet 

ps Sorry for all the posts in a row on this board, I went over board I know


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 22, 2012)

So, to recap, you are looking for a stainless clad carbon core 240 wa-gyuto under $200?


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## jonhaber (Oct 22, 2012)

Yes  Preferably with a japanese style handle in stead of a western style one but not with a plastic ferrule. I like thin, I like light. Would prefer sharp to edge retention I think if I have to choose.


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## Dusty (Oct 22, 2012)

Many people tend to attempt to decide their knife based on the brand of steel, that can be a mistake. The heat treatment that a knife goes through is far more important. You should consider the characteristics of any given steel to be the potential that steel can achieve. 

Given optimal heat treatment, the difference between white 2 and blue 2 is going to be nearly imperceptible to all but the most accomplished knife sharpeners. If you're inexperienced with high quality Japanese knives, both will get sharper than anything you've handled before. 

Looking at your pics, I'd choose the mizu, just because I like the profile more, and I've seen some fu-rin-ka-zan's with some dubious fit and finish. That said the steel and heat-treat has been sound. 

When reading Jon's post from kf a couple of years ago its important to view it in this context. The guy spends all day every day handling and sharpening high end knives and his knife 'palate' is attuned to things that most people won't even notice. All of the hitachi steels have the potential to make world-class kick-ass knives. 

Buy the knife that you think looks cool, learn to sharpen well and it will gives you many years of very happy use. 

And welcome to the forum


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 22, 2012)

jonhaber said:


> Yes  Preferably with a japanese style handle in stead of a western style one but not with a plastic ferrule. I like thin, I like light. Would prefer sharp to edge retention I think if I have to choose.



Jon,

I'm not sure that any of the three you listed meet your "I like thin, I like light." criteria. Although there are exceptions, like Carters, most clad knives are thicker and heavier than their monosteel equivalents. If you want to stay with carbon steel, then a Sakai Yusuke from BlueWayJapan may be the way to go. There have been several positive reviews of the knife on the forum.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Japanese-Sak...ultDomain_0&hash=item58958d2e9a#ht_2643wt_922

Another alternative is to look at stainless monosteel knives. Your situation is complicated by your location, in that many of the sources for knives that are regularly recommended on the forums will mean customs duties for you. So, I went looking for alternatives handled by Canadian shops.

Have you considered a Sakai Takayuki Grand Cheff? AEB-L steel at HRc 60, very light and thin:
http://www.paulsfinest.com/Sakai-Takayuki-Grand-Chef-Japanese-Gyuto-Chef-s-Knife-240mm-9.5.html

Rick


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## eaglerock (Oct 22, 2012)

I was almost going to say sakai yusuke too but Rick did beat me to it . i think you will be very happy with it.


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## EdipisReks (Oct 22, 2012)

jonhaber said:


> Basically looking at:
> Maskage Mizu - http://www.knifewear.com/knife-family.asp?family=19 - unclad blue #2 - $230 with a new handle - local buy (I hate the cheapo handle it comes with)



that is a clad knife, just like the others, and the cherry handle looks fine to me.


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## jonhaber (Oct 22, 2012)

How does this AEB-L stainless in the Sakai Takayuki compare to white #1?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 22, 2012)

Shirogami is a little easier than AEB-L to sharpen, but AEB-L has a bit better edge retention. In a home environment, you're not likely to notice much difference at all.

Here's a review: http://www.foodieforums.com/vbullet...-Gyuto-has-finally-arrived&highlight=takayuki

Rick


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## jonhaber (Oct 22, 2012)

Will one get slightly sharper than the other? I have a vg10 shun and even after sharpening the difference between it and a carbon steel blade is noticible. Because of this I am hesitant about a non-carbon knife. Also carbon seems very "japanese" to me which is also an appeal.


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 22, 2012)

When it comes to "sharpness" you are the limiting factor.


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## eaglerock (Oct 22, 2012)

and shuns vg10 steel is soft and low quality.


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 22, 2012)

eaglerock said:


> and shuns vg10 steel is soft and low quality.





Takefu VG10 low quality? I don't think so. I don't think Shun classics are particularly "soft" either at RC 60.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 22, 2012)

jonhaber said:


> Will one get slightly sharper than the other? I have a vg10 shun and even after sharpening the difference between it and a carbon steel blade is noticible. Because of this I am hesitant about a non-carbon knife. Also carbon seems very "japanese" to me which is also an appeal.



Jon,

Hmm ...

Sounds as if you are talking your way into a Sakai Yusuke, eh?

I say to follow your instincts, "gut", whatever you may call it, and get the knife that most appeals to you. You can't go wrong with either one. If you do order a Sakai Yusuke from BlueWayJapan, upgrade the shipping to EMS. It's $7 extra, but you will get the knife in a matter of days instead of weeks, and you will have tracking.

Rick


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## jonhaber (Oct 22, 2012)

ya  I like that I can actually buy it in person in Calgary.


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## EdipisReks (Oct 22, 2012)

eaglerock said:


> and shuns vg10 steel is soft and low quality.



bull crap. Shuns have issues, but it's not in build quality or materials. they get as sharp and stay as sharp as any other VG10 knife.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 22, 2012)

Since you like japan handle wt.Buff. horn instead of plastic,thin & lite,I agree you cannot do much better for the price,excellent fit & finish than the Sakai.Either one that Rick suggested both good tools one carbon the other stainless.


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## eaglerock (Oct 22, 2012)

i'm sorry if i said wrong information about shuns steel.
But my personal experience with the classic wasn't very good. it didn't stay sharp for more than 2 days and it was pain to sharpen.


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## EdipisReks (Oct 22, 2012)

eaglerock said:


> i'm sorry if i said wrong information about shuns steel.
> But my personal experience with the classic wasn't very good. it didn't stay sharp for more than 2 days and it was pain to sharpen.



it wasn't the knife.


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## chinacats (Oct 22, 2012)

eaglerock said:


> i'm sorry if i said wrong information about shuns steel.
> But my personal experience with the classic wasn't very good. it didn't stay sharp for more than 2 days and it was pain to sharpen.



I think they are a pain to sharpen, but they do get very sharp and hold the edge for some time...coming from someone who doesn't really like them...


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## James (Oct 22, 2012)

sounds like a wire edge


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## EdipisReks (Oct 22, 2012)

chinacats said:


> I think they are a pain to sharpen, but they do get very sharp and hold the edge for some time...coming from someone who doesn't really like them...



i find the secret with VG10 is allowing enough time on coarser stones. strangely, that's also the secret for all other steels, in my experience.


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## jonhaber (Oct 23, 2012)

hmmm thought I knew the way to go but now am wondering between these three

1) Masakage Yuki - http://www.knifewear.com/knife-family.asp?family=18 - Shirogami clad with stainless

2) Sakai-Yusuke-White-Steel-Wa-Gyuto-Knife-240mm - http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Japanese-Sak...ltDomain_0&hash=item58958d2e9a#ht_2605wt_1067

3) Sakai-Yusuke-White-Steel-Wa-Gyuto-Knife-210mm-Special-Thin - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Sa...307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bdc5db8b

Questions:
a) I know the 240 is the recommended length on this forum but someone about that super thin blade is very appealing and I don't see a super thin 240. Can this knife be too thin?
b) the finish on these knives look nice, worth it over the stainless clad yuki I listed?


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 23, 2012)

I have the 240 Yusuke special thin 1.6 at the spine.The 210 is 1.3.These are very thin carbon Lazors.I would not reccommed these as first quality Gyuto for a Student.Even the regular Yusuke is thin at 2.2 at the spine.Don't get me wrong I personally love mono steel thin carbon lazors,they just glide thru food.I have noticed sticksion when cutting potato's.They are excellent cutters for most fruits & vegetables & meat without bone.Also wt. a damp towel on board great for cutting sushi rolls.For push cut or slicing pull cuts they work well.

Because they are white steel,easy to sharpen,get extremely sharp edges.Also because they are carbon & so thin proper knife care is a must.There is no excuse for knife abuse!Never let the edge hit anything except food & the board.If you understand about getting a protective patina on a carbon gyuto,you can have a thin blade that works well,the Yusuke's are great knives for the price,I think they are just as good as the Masamoto's & Suisin wa-gyuto's that cost more.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 23, 2012)

Sorry just wanted to add that you seem to be serious about getting a quality blade & have not pulled the trigger yet.What ever you get you are looking at some very good knives all in the 200.00 range.That Masakagi san mai blade is nice as well,I like the finish on the sides of that gyuto & 61-63 hrt is perfect for kit. knife.

Even with the AEB-L thin stainless Gyuto,what ever you choose you will not lose,you are in the company of some fine Japan blades.


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## chinacats (Oct 23, 2012)

keithsaltydog said:


> Sorry just wanted to add that you seem to be serious about getting a quality blade & have not pulled the trigger yet.What ever you get you are looking at some very good knives all in the 200.00 range.That Masakagi san mai blade is nice as well,I like the finish on the sides of that gyuto & 61-63 hrt is perfect for kit. knife.
> 
> Even with the AEB-L thin stainless Gyuto,what ever you choose you will not lose,you are in the company of some fine Japan blades.



+1


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