# good 1000 grit stone for R2 / VG10 / UX10?



## Boynutman (Nov 2, 2020)

My stainless knives (Takamura HSPS 210mm, Hattori HD 240mm, UX10 180mm) do not get as sharp as they should be and they tend to lack bite. Certainly compared to the carbon or semi-stainless knives I have. Insufficient deburring may play a role here but I am also ready to look at different stones.

I am using a Kai (Shun) 1000 grit, and then finish on a Naniwa Superstone 2000 (I do not really use the 5000 grit reverse side). The 1000 grit is nice and soft and muddy, but I suspect not so fast cutting (frankly I have no comparison). Actually the Naniwa is pretty soft too (easy to dig into the stone by mistake).
My thinking is that with a faster #1000 stone it should be easier to be angle-consistent (fewer passes) and hopefully achieve better results. Then finish lightly on the 2000 so that I will maintain toothiness.

So reviewing the forum I came across the Sigma Select II which I understand has been developed for PM steels. Should work for the Takamura, and I figure also for the other stainless steels.

Any thoughts on this stone (alternatives?) and my considerations?
Thanks!


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## inferno (Nov 2, 2020)

Thinking about doing a 1k shootout.


I recently acquired a few new 1k's. So far i have: chosera/pro 800 shapton glass 1k shap pro 1k naniwa hibiki 1k kunsuto 1k from dictum king hyper 1k Thinking about doing some edge work on r2/srs-15, some thinning/flattening on ss and iron. and then maybe some polishing on cheap ss to show the...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





otherwise shapton pro1k and glass 3 or 4k.
or glass double thick 500 and glass 3k. those are good combos for SS and powder.
maybe pro1k and pro2k? i would want finer than 2k for powder and high qual ss though. 

personally i would go for 500 and 3k.


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## M1k3 (Nov 2, 2020)

I'd recommend Shapton Glass 500, double thick if possible, followed by Shapton Pro 1k to compliment your Naniwa stone.


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## GorillaGrunt (Nov 2, 2020)

+1 more for Shapton Pro.


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## 4wa1l (Nov 2, 2020)

I've found the Naniwa chosera (or gouken arata) 800 and 3k worked nicely on my Makoto R2 gyuto. Deburring the R2 required a bit more effort than simple carbons for me. Def something I had to focus on with this knife.


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## spaceconvoy (Nov 2, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I'd recommend Shapton Glass, double thick if possible, followed by Shapton Pro 1k to compliment your Naniwa stone.


So you're saying GS500 -> SP1K -> SS2K... isn't that overkill? It's been a decade since I had the Super Stone 2K, but I think it'll be fine to jump to straight from the 500 Glass Stone. Whenever I jump GS500 -> SP1500 it seems like a waste of time, since the scratches get erased in less than 10 strokes, so I'd imagine 500 -> 1000 would make even less sense.


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## inferno (Nov 2, 2020)

i go straight from 500 to either 3 or 4k. with that being said, its nice to have a 1k and 2k too


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## dafox (Nov 2, 2020)

inferno said:


> i go straight from 500 to either 3 or 4k. with that being said, its nice to have a 1k and 2k too


My test with R2 steel (Takamura red handle) and tomatoes favored sp2k over sg2k, was toothier and had more bite. Maybe sg500 followed by sg3k would be better but I'd rather not do that as it seems like it would prematurely shorten the lifespan on the blade.


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## M1k3 (Nov 2, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> So you're saying GS500 -> SP1K -> SS2K... isn't that overkill? It's been a decade since I had the Super Stone 2K, but I think it'll be fine to jump to straight from the 500 Glass Stone. Whenever I jump GS500 -> SP1500 it seems like a waste of time, since the scratches get erased in less than 10 strokes, so I'd imagine 500 -> 1000 would make even less sense.


I'm saying one (SG 500) or the other (SP 1k).


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## M1k3 (Nov 2, 2020)

dafox said:


> My test with R2 steel (Takamura red handle) and tomatoes favored sp2k over sg2k, was toothier and had more bite. Maybe sg500 followed by sg3k would be better but I'd rather not do that as it seems like it would prematurely shorten the lifespan on the blade.
> My test with R2 steel (Takamura red handle) and tomatoes favored sp2k over sg2k, was toothier and had more bite. Maybe sg500 followed by sg3k would be better but I'd rather not do that as it seems like it would prematurely shorten the lifespan on the blade.


I use my SG 4k until a few swipes don't get it back to "sharp enough". When that isn't sufficient, a few swipes on SG 500 -> SG 4k usually works.


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## Ruso (Nov 2, 2020)

Another vote for Shapton Pro 1K


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## Towerguy (Nov 2, 2020)

Boynutman said:


> My stainless knives (Takamura HSPS 210mm, Hattori HD 240mm, UX10 180mm) do not get as sharp as they should be and they tend to lack bite. Certainly compared to the carbon or semi-stainless knives I have. Insufficient deburring may play a role here but I am also ready to look at different stones.
> 
> I am using a Kai (Shun) 1000 grit, and then finish on a Naniwa Superstone 2000 (I do not really use the 5000 grit reverse side). The 1000 grit is nice and soft and muddy, but I suspect not so fast cutting (frankly I have no comparison). Actually the Naniwa is pretty soft too (easy to dig into the stone by mistake).
> My thinking is that with a faster #1000 stone it should be easier to be angle-consistent (fewer passes) and hopefully achieve better results. Then finish lightly on the 2000 so that I will maintain toothiness.
> ...


Suehiro Cerax 1000


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## adam92 (Nov 3, 2020)

suehiro cereal 1000 work well, but need soaking, prefer to use on single bevel knife, for 1k, I would rate for shapton glass 1k, but I usually stop my Takamura by 4k glass.


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## Benuser (Nov 3, 2020)

dafox said:


> My test with R2 steel (Takamura red handle) and tomatoes favored sp2k over sg2k, was toothier and had more bite. Maybe sg500 followed by sg3k would be better but I'd rather not do that as it seems like it would prematurely shorten the lifespan on the blade.


Not necessarily. No need to remove a lot of steel from the very edge. After thinning a bit behind the edge, the very edge only gets a few light edge leading strokes. At least, that's how I use medium-coarse stones. With quite some steels it contributes to edge stability.


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## inferno (Nov 3, 2020)

dafox said:


> My test with R2 steel (Takamura red handle) and tomatoes favored sp2k over sg2k, was toothier and had more bite. Maybe sg500 followed by sg3k would be better but I'd rather not do that as it seems like it would prematurely shorten the lifespan on the blade.



i still have bite for tomatos and peppers on my r2/srs15 powder knives with the 4k glass. no hesitation at all.
so i prefer my powders at 4k. thats the sweetspot for me. 3k is nice too. but 4k feels scary sharp and the 3k feels a just a little less refined. i want to put the max usable sharpness on my blades that i think the steel and application can handle.

i have not found any big difference between the glass and pro2k i would not be able to tell them apart. both ultra good stones too.

i dont think the lifespan would be shorter with 500 and 3k vs any 1k and whatever. basically when these hard steels dull they very often microchip. so either way you will have to grind those chips out. and then the speed of the 500 comes in handy.

my most used stones are the 500, 1k, 2k, 3k and 4k. and i feel one needs them all. those cover 99% of the uses. the least used of them is the 1k once you have the 500 imo. unless you want to stop at 1k that is.


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## dafox (Nov 3, 2020)

inferno said:


> i still have bite for tomatos and peppers on my r2/srs15 powder knives with the 4k glass. no hesitation at all.
> so i prefer my powders at 4k. thats the sweetspot for me. 3k is nice too. but 4k feels scary sharp and the 3k feels a just a little less refined. i want to put the max usable sharpness on my blades that i think the steel and application can handle.
> 
> i have not found any big difference between the glass and pro2k i would not be able to tell them apart. both ultra good stones too.
> ...


Thanks Inferno,
I'll have to give the 500/4000 a try.
I concur about the microchipping, that has been my experience also.
My least favorite thing about the SG series is that they load up/ get dirty with black residue, any ideas about that?


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## Staystrapped (Nov 3, 2020)

Not to get off topic but consensus is that the sg4000 is worth the money no?


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## inferno (Nov 3, 2020)

dafox said:


> Thanks Inferno,
> I'll have to give the 500/4000 a try.
> I concur about the microchipping, that has been my experience also.
> My least favorite thing about the SG series is that they load up/ get dirty with black residue, any ideas about that?



the finer ones will load up since they release only very little abrasive. the 3k will load up quite a bit less than the 4k. but the 4k makes the blade sharper.
i just wipe them off with a green sponge to clean. or i use another glass stone to clean. usually my glass7 500

but sooner or later they need cleaning with diamonds, because they wont cut as well.


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## inferno (Nov 3, 2020)

Staystrapped said:


> Not to get off topic but consensus is that the sg4000 is worth the money no?



very good stone. my favorite glass though is the 3k since its faster and clogs less. but it wont make the blades as sharp. thats the price you pay i guess.


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## M1k3 (Nov 3, 2020)

dafox said:


> Thanks Inferno,
> I'll have to give the 500/4000 a try.
> I concur about the microchipping, that has been my experience also.
> My least favorite thing about the SG series is that they load up/ get dirty with black residue, any ideas about that?


They aren't difficult to deal with. I'd say using water and your hand will get rid of most of the swarf built up.


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## dafox (Nov 3, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> They aren't difficult to deal with. I'd say using water and your hand will get rid of most of the swarf built up.


That doesn't take care if it for me, I need to use a rust eraser or lapping plate to remove it.


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## M1k3 (Nov 3, 2020)

dafox said:


> That doesn't take care if it for me, I need to use a rust eraser or lapping plate to remove it.


Weird. I haven't had that issue except with a cheap iron clad Tojiro yanagiba


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## Boynutman (Nov 3, 2020)

Thanks everyone! Some really useful feedback here, very grateful for that. And @inferno great to read the comprehensive 1000's test.
I think I will opt for the Shapton Pro 1000 then, if I can find it within the EU.
As a coarse stone I have the JNS300 which is great but it seems a bit much to use that every session (since 500 & 3000/4000 was suggested).

Now I am wondering what the hell I was thinking when I collected my current lineup...  Well that's how one learns I suppose.


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## Staystrapped (Nov 3, 2020)

I bought the shapton 1000 on the advice of people on here and I’m very satisfied with it


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## Boynutman (Nov 3, 2020)

Thanks, appreciate your feedback.
(in confirmation bias phase now)


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## inferno (Nov 3, 2020)

Boynutman said:


> Thanks everyone! Some really useful feedback here, very grateful for that. And @inferno great to read the comprehensive 1000's test.
> I think I will opt for the Shapton Pro 1000 then, if I can find it within the EU.
> As a coarse stone I have the JNS300 which is great but it seems a bit much to use that every session (since 500 & 3000/4000 was suggested).
> 
> Now I am wondering what the hell I was thinking when I collected my current lineup...  Well that's how one learns I suppose.



Dieter Schmid Fine Tools from germany are the cheapest for shapton pros, they also sell atomas cheap.
Dictum also german, has glass stones.

both ship fast and i have never had a problem with any of them.


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## Staystrapped (Nov 3, 2020)

Do you guys not have amazon?


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## Boynutman (Nov 3, 2020)

Dieter. Of course, good tip!

Amazon outside EU gets taxed. Amazon inside EU may still get taxed if seller ships from outside EU.


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## inferno (Nov 3, 2020)

if you order from germany to holland you probably have the stuff next day or so i guess. or maybe 2 days.


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## Benuser (Nov 4, 2020)

inferno said:


> the 3k will load up quite a bit less than the 4k. but the 4k makes the blade sharper.


Did you fully deburr on the 3k?
Could it be there's some burr remnant left? Wondering about such a difference at this level.


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## Kawa (Nov 4, 2020)

A few good sites have already been given.

I can add to that knivesandtools.eu (or .nl / .de / .whatever countyry u are in)
I don't know if they are the cheapest (I don't care about 5-10 dollar differences), but that have been reliable for years for me.

Always nice to have one webshop extra at your list i guess.


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## inferno (Nov 4, 2020)

Benuser said:


> Did you fully deburr on the 3k?
> Could it be there's some burr remnant left? Wondering about such a difference at this level.



when i weighed how much steel my stones removed for the same amount of work i got this result for the glass stones, the 3k removes almost twice as much material as the 4k. so there will be a definite difference between these 2.


190mg - glass 1k 
110mg - glass 2k 
70mg - glass 3k 
40mg - glass 4k


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## Staystrapped (Nov 4, 2020)

Now that’s some science right there! I love it!


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## kayman67 (Nov 4, 2020)

Are these alloys that difficult, though? I don't think so. Any decent stone should work just fine. I did a Takamura gyuto R2 with an old soaking Suehiro 1000 stone. Got myself more burr than I wanted, just too fast, knife almost flat on the stone. Finished with 6k. Razor sharp after 5 days. Can't really hope for more.

If you dig into the stone, getting something very hard won't solve your problem, technique. At some point, this just can't be avoided without some compromise. 



inferno said:


> Dieter Schmid Fine Tools from germany are the cheapest for shapton pros, they also sell atomas cheap.
> Dictum also german, has glass stones.
> 
> both ship fast and i have never had a problem with any of them.



Not really for Atoma. They are a bit more expensive with expensive shipping. Knivesandtools sell them cheaper with somewhat better service as well.
Hiomakivi sell them cheaper, too. 
Also Hiomakivi might have some cheaper Shaptons as well, all things considered. Worth a look and doing some math. It was always cheaper for me. 

Anyway, I had to use a Shapton Pro 1000 recently. Pretty much forgot just how awful the experience is.


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## Boynutman (Nov 5, 2020)

Well, it is also time to try something new and I want to be sure it is different from what I already have and will work well on R2.
The KAI works great on carbon stuff and don't want to wear it out on steels that may be better served with something else.


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## KO88 (Nov 5, 2020)

Easy. Super fast for those steels. 
Vitrified dimond 800 JKI or Practical sharpening 1k/2k...


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## jwthaparc (Nov 7, 2020)

This might be an unpopular choice, but I swear it works really well for me. For quite a few knives, I sharpen, and finish them on the chosera 800, by doing some light stropping strokes at the end. I haven't tried the chosera 1000, but it could be even better for this type of sharpening.


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## inferno (Nov 7, 2020)

KO88 said:


> Easy. Super fast for those steels.
> Vitrified dimond 800 JKI or Practical sharpening 1k/2k...



how much are those from practical sharpening?


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## inferno (Nov 7, 2020)

jwthaparc said:


> This might be an unpopular choice, but I swear it works really well for me. For quite a few knives, I sharpen, and finish them on the chosera 800, by doing some light stripping strokes at the end. I haven't tried the chosera 1000, but it could be even better for this type of sharpening.



i had the naniwa pro1k for a few years and imo the 800 is a better stone. the 1k is a bit slow for a 1k, and in reality it feels finer. the finish it produces is 1,5k. its a also a bit more messy than the 800. its still a good stone though. i gave mine away


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## KO88 (Nov 7, 2020)

inferno said:


> how much are those from practical sharpening?


if i remember well it was sub 200€ but less material than JKI 800...


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## crlums (Nov 7, 2020)

I also think the shapton pro would be solid choice. I personally jump strait to a shapton pro 2k, and it does great. Some seem to think the 1000 is better than the 2000 though


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## M1k3 (Nov 7, 2020)

crlums said:


> I also think the shapton pro would be solid choice. I personally jump strait to a shapton pro 2k, and it does great. Some seem to think the 1000 is better than the 2000 though


Better at what?


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## crlums (Nov 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Better at what?


I haven’t tried both so no way for me to say. When I was deciding between the 1k and the 2k it seemed like the 1k got a lot of really positive comments and the 2k got “yeah it’s fine too” type comments. I picked the 2k because it fit by progression better and I’ve been happy with it.


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## spaceconvoy (Nov 7, 2020)

Why not the underrated 1500? I haven't compared it to any other Pros, but it seems very fast to me, and erases GS500 scratches in less than 10 strokes. I find it to be a great stepping stone to my mid-fine naturals, Tsushima and Aizu. And most importantly it's a much prettier color than either the 1K or 2K.


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## M1k3 (Nov 7, 2020)

crlums said:


> I haven’t tried both so no way for me to say. When I was deciding between the 1k and the 2k it seemed like the 1k got a lot of really positive comments and the 2k got “yeah it’s fine too” type comments. I picked the 2k because it fit by progression better and I’ve been happy with it.


I like the 2k and I know other people do also. Funny to hear the 2k being disliked.


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## crlums (Nov 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I like the 2k and I know other people do also. Funny to hear the 2k being disliked.


I’m with you. The 2k has been great for me. Maybe it’s just that more people buy 1k stones in general, so the 1k gets a bigger chorus of support. I never saw anything outright negative about the 2k. Maybe some don’t like it’s hard and slick feel. From what I’ve heard that’s a feature of the SP line in general though, not just the 2k.


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## Dendrobatez (Nov 7, 2020)

Diamond 1000 Stone Kit


Product Description Detailed Specs Measurements This diamond stone set includes 1 1000 grit diamond stone, 1 stone holder, and 1 nagura for use with diamond stones. These stones are true splash-and-go stones that work well on every type of steel we have tried. One of the things we enjoy about...




www.japaneseknifeimports.com





This is what I use and like for just about anything - including my r2 saji and high hrc knives.


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## Boynutman (Nov 8, 2020)

Thanks everyone for your input. Just ordered the Shapton Pro 1000, looking forward to trying it out!


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