# Preferred sharpening angle?



## Rivera (Sep 2, 2017)

I was reading a recent thread about how "sharp is shap." Everyone had a preference over how far they take their knife grit-wise. This got me thinking as to what angle everyone prefers to sharpen at as well. Anybody have a preferred angle that you like to sharpens your knives on? I try to do mine on a 12 degree angle as best as possible.


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## K813zra (Sep 2, 2017)

I haven't a clue as to what angle I use on which knife. On wide bevel or passable knives it is like around 9-12 degrees per side or something like that. On other J-knives maybe somewhere between 12-18 degrees. Whatever is already on the knife minus a few degrees here and there if it calls for it.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Sep 3, 2017)

Those of us, who do free hand sharpening. Do you ever measure angles? I have no idea what angles I use when sharpening. It depends of the knife and what I want to achieve (doing a micro bevel, or a thinning/sharpening session etc). 

And if you DO measure angle, how do you do it? Measuring spine height, distance from spine to stone and then calculating? Using some jigs?


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## Lars (Sep 3, 2017)

When I started it was en vogue to make really wide bevels and you needed a low consistent angle to make it work. It seemed popular to get anal about angles so thought it was very important.
These days, if the knife has been thinned properly I just make a very shallow bevel at an angle that feels comfortable. Works great, is easy and takes less time as well.
And since I never turned out to be a sharpening jedi master the less work=less room for error really is true for me.

Lars


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## TheCaptain (Sep 3, 2017)

I don't measure angles BUT have watched Jon's videos and used the sharpie trick to get pretty decent results. I try to go for a lower angle when starting every time to thin a bit then angle.up to put on the edge.


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## rick alen (Sep 3, 2017)

Unless using a jig-type setup you first need to be able to establish what angle you have. Cut wedges with a protractor and lay them under the blade to establish a visual.

I sharpen everything to 10deg or less, then lay in a microbevel to suite the knife and task.


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## StonedEdge (Sep 3, 2017)

I let the knife tell me what angle it wants


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## ThEoRy (Sep 3, 2017)

Don't know don't care. I make shiny things get cutty cutty.


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## StonedEdge (Sep 3, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> Don't know don't care. I make shiny things get cutty cutty.


+1 bingo


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## Smashmasta (Sep 3, 2017)

The exact degree of an angle is not that important, but rather the fact that whatever angle you're sharpening at is kept consistent which is the most important. Frankly, I'm a bit weary of a sharpener who says they sharpen every knife to 'X degrees' - it reveals some ignorance right off the bat. With the risk of sounding overly poetic, every knife is different and has different needs than every other knife, even the same type of knife with the same steel from the same maker. If a sharpener is sharpening with their "perfect X degree angle" a well made J knife to the same angle as a ****** Walmart knife that are also different types of knives with different applications, then they don't know what they're doing, and are simply spouting some lousy marketing phrases to the unsuspecting masses, who then receive a poorly sharpened knife at the benefit of convenience to the sharpener. You'll see this a lot with 'professional' sharpeners who likely use machines with fixed angle jigs.

I agree with StonedEdge about having the knife tell me what angle it wants, and this is a sentiment that takes some time to understand because it takes a good deal of experience to understand how a steel/edge will perform at a certain angle range, and you need to understand how it will perform quickly so as to not remove unnecessary amounts of metal. Of course if I'm sharpening for someone else and they ask for a certain ballpark angle I'll do it for them, but I might mention that the knife being sharpened may perform better at a slightly different angle range than what they request. Many of us here don't use angle measuring jigs, so if angles are being mentioned, I'd to take it with a grain of salt, and think about it more in a small range of angles around the angle mentioned. So if I say I'm going to sharpen a well made J knife at around 15 degrees, it will actually be in the range somewhere between 12-17ish. Once one gets over the idea of sharpening to a scientifically accurate pinpointed degree, I suspect they will actually have better results as they are able to focus more on a consistent angle than overthinking what exact angle they're at in that movement. 

A good sharpener is one that is adaptable and dynamic, one that thinks about the whole experience that extends beyond the edge - the skill of the user, the typical tasks/foods of the user deals with, the type of knife and steel, and the requests of the user if they have any. A poor sharpener is one that is just focused on the edge as if that's all that matters, and set to using fixed exact angles who then likely becomes reliant on machines, jigs, or the idea that there's one angle to rule them all.


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## Dave Martell (Sep 3, 2017)

StonedEdge said:


> I let the knife tell me what angle it wants



:goodpost:


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## Rivera (Sep 3, 2017)

Thanks for all the responses guys! It's definitely interesting to see what everybody thinks about this whole topic as everybody has their own opinions. I completely understand and agree with everybody who said that each knife has its own kind of "angle" that it should have depending on the steel and what you are cutting. I gues that point of view definitely broadens the horizon for me in terms of sharpening :nunchucks:


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## clsm1955 (Sep 4, 2017)

I set my angle based on the feedback from the stone. If I feel the edge biting slightly into the stone then I figure the edge is getting sharpened.
When I first started sharpening I made 15 degree wedges out of rubber (pencil erasers) to help me set the angle. It was helpful at that stage since it gave me a little confidence that I would not damage my knife. After a few weeks I got the hang of it and went free-hand. Once you find your angle it's really not that difficult to keep it consistent.
Good luck and have fun!


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## gic (Sep 4, 2017)

While I can feel the edge dig as my main method, occasionally use the sharpie trick but I still use occasionally use wedges, which I made for multiple angles starting at 10 degrees, to check that my "muscle memory" for the angle is consistent and correct..


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## mikaelsan (Sep 4, 2017)

Depends on the knife, currently experimenting with what I like in terms of low vs tall vs low with microbevel, my cheap Chinese cleaver greatly improved from a microbevel it helped a lot with rolling, while I think I might be moving back towards the lower angles on my white and blue steel knives


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## nevrknow (Sep 4, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> I don't measure angles BUT have watched Jon's videos and used the sharpie trick to get pretty decent results. I try to go for a lower angle when starting every time to thin a bit then angle.up to put on the edge.



+1


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## Benuser (Sep 4, 2017)

If you want to reproduce a former edge, better start a few degrees lower than where it bites, or you will be going to increase the angle over time. I go even much lower, as low as I can, just to thin a bit with the coarsest stone. The marker trick is your friend with heavily rounded or damaged edges.


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## krx927 (Sep 6, 2017)

I sharpen freehand and I like to know what my aprox. sharpening angle is. Not so much because of the angle it self, I think users of jigs are are much more mental about exact angles.

For me the importance of the angle is only relevant for subsequent sharpenings. I want to always keep aprox. same angle. In this way I am hoping I will better keep the original geometry of the knife.

For this purpose I created a set of wooden wedges in different angles (8, 10, 12 14, 16, 18 and 20). Using them helps me greatly in keeping consistent angle trough different sharpening sessions. I find this method much easier and faster to set angle compared to sharpie trick.


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## HRC_64 (Sep 6, 2017)

Height of the spine off the stone has perfect correlation with edge angle.

http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp

(Great for main knives --they tend to be 50mm tall, plus or minus a couple ticks)


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## Ruso (Sep 7, 2017)

I do 5pds precisely, then I microbevel that sh*t like no tomorrow. Then I microbevel the microbevel with more acute angle so I have a complex tactical compound edge. Finishing this beauty on a diamond loaded lion leather strop at 89degree - 10 passes per side. Try it, you will be amazed!


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## dwalker (Sep 7, 2017)

HRC_64 said:


> Height of the spine off the stone has perfect correlation with edge angle.
> 
> http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp
> 
> (Great for main knives --they tend to be 50mm tall, plus or minus a couple ticks)


 If your spine is 3mm above the stone, a 50mm tall knife will be sharpened at a much more acute angle than a 40mm tall knife. You would have to measure each individually to get a correct angle. That is why those clip-on sharpening guides are worthless. Once I sharpened alot if knives, I figured out what geometry I liked and make the knife suit me. I never think about angles.


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## Ruso (Sep 7, 2017)

*Nvm-edited*


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## HRC_64 (Sep 7, 2017)

dwalker said:


> You would have to measure each individually to get a correct angle.



Not really. Its pretty easy to get within 10%
This means, on a 10* DPS, you are within 1 degree.

ie, that's very close. 

The reason the math works is that a huge majority of Gyuto knives are 47.5-53.5mm at the heel.
In other words, 50mm +/- 2.5mm, or a 5mm variance (ie, possible unknown). That means, estimating the width
at "50" is 95% accurate, and the min/max error is around 10%

10% of 10 degrees == 1*

ie, closer than most can hold consistently anyway 

===

here is some angle numbers, 
assuming a round-number 
benchmark object is used (10mm)

12.2 @ 47mm blade
11.53 @ 50mm blade
10.8 @ 52mm blade

Typical error &#8710; = 0.7*

(error vs 10* benchmark, as note the correct benchmark is actually 9mm...)

= 0.8* @52
= 1.5* @50
= 2.2* @ 47

So 50-52mm blade is witin 1.5* of 10mm, even using an inn-accurate guide.

(a shorter 47mm blade needs a minor correction of 1mm lower to get within 1*)

Of course, using a proper-ly accurate 9mm benchmark 
solves this inaccuracy of course for 47-53mm range.


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## HRC_64 (Sep 7, 2017)

The only caveat is that you are learning
using your main knife to train your muscle memory,
and then learning how to apply to other blades/ other angles.

but that seems sensible and straight forward to keep in mind.


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## malexthekid (Sep 7, 2017)

HRC_64 said:


> The only caveat is that you are learning
> using your main knife to train your muscle memory,
> and then learning how to apply to other blades/ other angles.
> 
> but that seems sensible and straight forward to keep in mind.


Jesus... all that effort or you could just go and get yourself a big fat sharpie mark the edge and more accurately hit the existing angle. Learn muscle control and then adjust the edge as you use.


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## Krassi (Sep 7, 2017)

16-18 degrees per side micro bevel with my bogdan system after i gave my knife a zero degree freehand grind first. Flat on the stones first and then on the system just for that tiny microbevel

with this the usage of all my high grit jnats make sense and i get the same good results even if iam slightly drunken! perfect for me 
on some knifes i of course do quick freehand touch ups on suitas


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## HRC_64 (Sep 7, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Jesus... all that effort or you could just go ... and more accurately hit the existing angle.



Not sure if you actually read the post, but whatever.
placing a 10mm spacer under the spine takes no time.

eg, take your (11mm) sharpie and put it under the blade. 
Now, lower the spine 1-2mm... 



>http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_diameter_of_a_sharpie_fine_point_marker?#slide=2

Korin's trick was use a penny (actually, a stack...but same idea)

Both tricks allow you to establish new angles, reference existing angles, and deal with asymmetry.
Useful sanity checks, in other words...


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