# Taking (good) photos of knives



## Moooza (Feb 24, 2021)

I'm looking for some tips on taking good, detailed photos of knives.

I'm really struggling to take detailed photos without strong reflections. I have a Canon DSLR 100D and use a tripod. 

Please let me know what lighting, surface/background, and lens you find works best. Or any other introductory tips that really helped you. I'm still a beginner, so please nothing too difficult. Thanks for your help!


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## RonB (Feb 24, 2021)

Here's a youtube post that should help. Note that their subject is not very reflective, so make sure you place lights so they don't reflect back into the lens.


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## khashy (Feb 24, 2021)

Moooza said:


> I'm looking for some tips on taking good, detailed photos of knives.
> 
> I'm really struggling to take detailed photos without strong reflections. I have a Canon DSLR 100D and use a tripod.
> 
> Please let me know what lighting, surface/background, and lens you find works best. Or any other introductory tips that really helped you. I'm still a beginner, so please nothing too difficult. Thanks for your help!



As you know well, my photography sucks so I can’t offer anything from experience, however @Zweber12 ‘s photos are beautiful and have tonnes of detail without reflection. So hopefully he can teach us both how to do it properly


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## Migraine (Feb 24, 2021)

I take literally the worst photos on the entire forum on my phone so just do the opposite of what I do I guess.


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## tostadas (Feb 24, 2021)

I try to take photos near my window during the day, but avoid direct sunlight.


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## SeattleB (Feb 24, 2021)

Knives photography must be difficult based upon the number of knife web stores that have photos out of focus, or small, or not of the key parts of the knife. Yes, I want to know if the kanji are hand-chisled. Yes, I want to know if that 'nashiji' looks like pear skin up close or looks like a potholed road in Boston after a bad winter. Then there's that store that always has more photos of the box than the knife. 

Good photos make shopping interesting, educational, and fun. Bad photos quickly turn interest into a groan and a click to another site.


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## inferno (Feb 24, 2021)

Moooza said:


> I'm looking for some tips on taking good, detailed photos of knives.
> 
> I'm really struggling to take detailed photos without strong reflections. I have a Canon DSLR 100D and use a tripod.
> 
> Please let me know what lighting, surface/background, and lens you find works best. Or any other introductory tips that really helped you. I'm still a beginner, so please nothing too difficult. Thanks for your help!



i shoot hand held in available light, whatever it might be. 

first you want to set the camera up so when reviewing the pic on the rear screen it matches the brightness on your computer. now this only works indoors since outdoors the camera screen will appear dimmer.

i usually shoot like this: 
set camera to "aperture priority" i now have control over the "depth of field". how much that is in focus/sharp front to back. 
f2 short. f11 long. longer "depth of field" comes at the cost of slower "shutter speed".

then i try to judge how much light i have. outdoors in sunlight i set "iso" to 1-400 or similar.
indoors 1600-3200 or so. this is the sensitivity of the sensor. increasing this decreases "shutter speed" (less blurry pics from shaking),
at the cost of "noise" and "dynamic range".

then i set the camera to "matrix metering" camera now measures light for the whole frame and averages this and calculates the shutter speed.
other modes are "spot" and "center weighted". since blades are highly reflective using "spot metering" can result in a completely overblown pic or something almost completely black. depending on how bright your metered spot is.

then i press a button that i have designated as my "AF-ON" button. this engages the autofocus. this is not the same button as the shutter on my camera. but usually a half pressed shutter is "AF-ON". and here i select "single servo" aka it it only focuses once. you can also choose continous mode where it basically tries to aquire focus as long as you have the af-on button pressed.

when i see the camera has found focus where i want it (on my camera the center AF point, "single point AF") i then recompose the the frame and shoot the pic.

then i review the pic on the screen and see if the white balance is correct. it usually is (on auto WB), but if not then i select one manually. 

then i check if the pic is too dark or too bright. if its too bright i use the "exposure compensation" +- button and the scroll wheel. and turn it down 0,5EV or similar. and if its too dark i crank up the exposure comp until i think it looks like the scene i'm shooting. 

if i want to highlight something so it looks unrealistic i compensate until i get that part exactly as i want it brightness wise. 

or i might use spot metering and "meter" that single thing with the center focus point while holding down the "AF-ON" button. then that thing will be correctly exposed. etc etc.

yeah this is pretty much how all slr cameras work.


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## inferno (Feb 24, 2021)

mooza if you want to i can guide you more in how to use the your camera. but reading a good review of the camera will take you quite far. i like the dpreview reviews. especially the old ones. its basically the manual, but short and effective with pics.

and imo knowing how the camera *actually* works is 90% there. then its simply artistic differences and style left.

after a while you can get exactly what you want out of a pic with only the camera, no editing. but obviously you need to know how it works.


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## Moooza (Feb 24, 2021)

Awesome response, thank you everyone. I just bought a lightbox, I think that will help, and now looking into a macro lens for close up of the kanji and finish.

Then @inferno will closely review/follow your tips. Cheers!


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 24, 2021)

Great topic that’s kinda peaked my interest. Have an old Canon Rebel XTi that’s been sitting around for a decade along with a few lenses including a macro lens. Curious if this is capable of getting some decent pictures still?


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## khashy (Feb 24, 2021)

Moooza said:


> Awesome response, thank you everyone. I just bought a lightbox, I think that will help, and now looking into a macro lens for close up of the kanji and finish.
> 
> Then @inferno will closely review/follow your tips. Cheers!


Eagerly waiting to see what you will pull off!


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## inferno (Feb 24, 2021)

Chicagohawkie said:


> Great topic that’s kinda peaked my interest. Have an old Canon Rebel XTi that’s been sitting around for a decade along with a few lenses including a macro lens. Curious if this is capable of getting some decent pictures still?



at lower 0-maybe 800iso it will be as good as the newest cameras in quality.


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## inferno (Feb 24, 2021)

Moooza said:


> Awesome response, thank you everyone. I just bought a lightbox, I think that will help, and now looking into a macro lens for close up of the kanji and finish.
> 
> Then @inferno will closely review/follow your tips. Cheers!



you probably dont need a real macro lens. macro means 1 to 1 magnification. basically 1 inch in reality is 1 inch on the sensor. 
0.3 or so mag ratio is usually good enough. 

i have the tamron 35mm for my full frame d750 and its awesome. even for closeups. my go to camera. 0.4 magnification ratio on this one.
but for an aspc sensor i would have gone for a 28 or 24mm for a fixed lens.

then i have a d500 (aspc size) with a tamron 90mm macro. also very good. but very specialized. 

then i have a fuji xh1 (aspc) with the fuji 80mm macro. very good this too. trying to deciede which ones of the macro rigs i'm gonna keep. 
liking the nikon ergos a lot more though. feels better built and you should feel that for 2 grand imo.


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 24, 2021)

inferno said:


> at lower 0-maybe 800iso it will be as good as the newest cameras in quality.


Just broke it out and charging the battery. I’ll I’ve ever done is set this to AF and the basic close up camera position. I’ll have to get out the manual and do a little reading. Have a tripod somewhere, is this something I’ll need to use? I’ll try to duplicate your suggestions above and see if I can get some baseline results.


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## inferno (Feb 24, 2021)

all these lenses are stabilized, and the xh1 has also sensor stabilization on top of that.


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## inferno (Feb 24, 2021)

Chicagohawkie said:


> Just broke it out and charging the battery. I’ll I’ve ever done is set this to AF and the basic close up camera position. I’ll have to get out the manual and do a little reading. Have a tripod somewhere, is this something I’ll need to use? I’ll try to duplicate your suggestions above and see if I can get some baseline results.



try to use it hand held first imo. then you will find out the limitations.

try to find out what all those terms are adjusted on your camera. on many cameras you have direct access buttons for those settings. it might be holding down a button and turning a wheel. but they are usually accessible. and if not then you you have all settings in the main menu. on my old d40 from 2008 i had all those setting after pressing the "i" key i think. or the menu key. 

and this is why you buy a slr camera. that you can adjust these things. and it only gets good when you actually do. otherwise its an auto camera, no better than an iphone.


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 24, 2021)

What I have plus the smaller lens that came with it. Any hope?


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## inferno (Feb 24, 2021)

yes! but you will soon find out that bringing the macro lens to 1:1 mag will require a lot of light (usually external flashes). and it does the same with my new cameras too. thats just how macro works. or you turn up the iso to like 4k. and then you get lots of noise. its almost impossible to hand hold a macro lens at 1:1 mag at low iso. too blurry. i can get sharp pics at maybe 1/3 seconds without flash. and thats at iso 2-3k or so.

but for general knife pics the 18-55 will do fine most likely.


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## inferno (Feb 24, 2021)

if you want to get a really high dynamic range pic at 1:1 at maybe 1-200 iso then we're talking like 10-15 seconds shutter speed without flash. if you also want to get some depth of field, at like f8 or f11. because depth of field is razor thin at 1:1. and no one can hand hold well for 10 seconds. and no stabilization system in the world will save you here.


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 24, 2021)

Thanks, have some reading to do to familiarize, but will give it a whirl later tonight......


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 25, 2021)

After about 24 hours of messing around with indoor pictures I have come to the conclusion that it’s all about the lighting to achieve good pictures. I found the box to my canon 580 flash, but missing the actual flash unit - hopefully I find it because that was a good one..... next up a photo tent with some good indirect lighting.


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## btbyrd (Feb 25, 2021)

There are a bunch of cheap LED lighting options out there, mostly marketed to people shooting vieo. While they're not great choices for all indoor photography (portraits in particular) they're very useful for shooting still life images like food and knives.


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## MowgFace (Feb 25, 2021)

Lol, I just bootleg it when I need to. Shoplight with a 8.5x11 diffuser (Read: printer paper).

Usually I just find my brightest window and try not to get direct reflections.

90% of the photos I take of knives is taken with my phone. iPhone X.


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 25, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> There are a bunch of cheap LED lighting options out there, mostly marketed to people shooting vieo. While they're not great choices for all indoor photography (portraits in particular) they're very useful for shooting still life images like food and knives.


Yep, I really have no interest in spending much on this, I have some canon equipment laying around and have found a few tent option on Craigslist for 20 bucks. Pretty much just COVID/ wintertime boredom. BTW, weren’t you going to send me that 300 Anryu suji a while back?


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## Moooza (Feb 25, 2021)

I got a new prime lens (50mm f1.8) hoping it will help with light, and it seems to have more potential, but I now realise the angle is super important (and my manual focus is terrible)

A lightbox is on the way which will also help. The light is coming from the left in these pics and isn't diffuse enough. Will try again when I receive it.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Feb 25, 2021)

Moooza said:


> I got a new prime lens (50mm f1.8) hoping it will help with light, and it seems to have more potential, but I now realise the angle is super important (and my manual focus is terrible)
> 
> A lightbox is on the way which will also help. The light is coming from the left in these pics and isn't diffuse enough. Will try again when I receive it.
> 
> ...



Prime isn't really going to help if you if everything is on one plane. It's sharper than telephoto but IMO the beauty of a prime comes from the bokeh when you have elements of contrasting depth (e.g portraits).

Also, you're not getting enough light for a knife picture, a slightly wider f stop (like 2.4 to 1.8) isn't really gonna help you either. Prob more cost-effective to buy a tripod and use a slower shutter speed.

Here's this for inspiration: Login • Instagram

Calling our patron fruit (and vegetable?) liquid @juice


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## inferno (Feb 26, 2021)

no need to focus manually. just select a single focus point. AF where you want. recompose. shoot.

you need to set up another button than the shutter for AF for this to work. there is usually a back button to use.
because if you dont, when you push the shutter the second time it will AF again on something else.

adjust exp comp up/down if needed. 

play with f-ratio. play with WB. play with matrix/center/spot metering.

play with composition and framing. this is very important for all good pics imo. 


btw i think the pics look good!


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## SeattleB (Feb 26, 2021)

I'm not a photographer so thanks to all for the good tips. I'm merely a consumer of knife photos, so I'll say that composition counts. Please, please no moody dark photos on black backgrounds. It doesn't make a knife look sexy. It makes the seller look like they're trying to hide something.

I like to see clear, well-lit and well-focused shots of:

Both sides of the blade, which large photos (and large means at least half the screen size, not 4" x 4")
The spine, so I can see the distal taper
The spine, so I can see whether it's nicely rounded
The choil shot for the grind
Another choil shot for the rounding and fit & finish
Close up of the kanji so I can see if it's hand-hammered, stamped or etched
As a newbie here I feel a little out of place posting this, like I'm making demands that I have no position to make. OTOH, these things seem so elemental I have to ask: why don't web stores (and private sellers) do what seems so elemental?


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## Moooza (Mar 1, 2021)

Lightbox arrived. Been playing around with so many different settings. I think my camera needs a clean. I just can't get a crisp focus - time for it to get serviced I guess.


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## big_adventure (Mar 1, 2021)

Moooza said:


> Lightbox arrived. Been playing around with so many different settings. I think my camera needs a clean. I just can't get a crisp focus - time for it to get serviced I guess.
> 
> View attachment 116251



That doesn't look bad - the limitation is the size of the image on the forum as much as focus. If this is autofocus, what you may want to try is manually adjusting the focus after it autos. You can usually do this either generically, or specifically with a lens. I had a 50mm f1.4 Nikon that needed a fair amount of adjustment to really be on point, and that's something you'll obviously notice at f1.4. Another trick is to put the cam into live view if it has it (using the back screen during focus) then zoom in as far as you can to the focus point and adjust from there.

Good luck!


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## rickbern (Mar 1, 2021)

I think your lens aperture is too large and your depth of field is, therefore, too shallow. I'd start out at f11 for something like that and maybe even stop down further. Depends on your camera. As far as I'm concerned, the two most important things in still life photography are (a) lights, and light modifiers and (b) a good tripod. Stop down to f11, light the scene indirectly (personally, I like ceilings and scrims more than light boxes) and let the iso compensate. At f8, almost all lenses made nowadays are pretty good.

With flash photography, the shutter speed doesn't come into play (I think you knew this, just putting it in for form)

Love this guy's tutorials, he's the @JBroida of product photography as far as I'm concerned! Don't be intimidated by all the equipment, you can do it all with a couple of cheap off camera flashes and a trigger.



https://www.youtube.com/user/botvidsson


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## Luftmensch (Mar 1, 2021)

Getting better @Moooza!

The thread has generated some useful technical advice. If you are happy to spend 10-15mins reading/googling, it is worth reading up on the trade-off between aperture, shutter-speed and ISO (the 'exposure triangle'). Having an understanding of how images are exposed may allow you to chose whether you want full-auto, shutter priority or aperture priority. If your camera can display an exposure histogram, i recommend reading about how to interpret that data (see here). That can help you determine how the image will be exposed and help you decide what trade-offs you want to make.

The rest is experimenting with angles/perspectives you like 



Moooza said:


> I just can't get a crisp focus - time for it to get serviced I guess



The lovely Shig collection you have there does look 'soft' (slightly out of focus). Are you half-pressing the shutter button before full pressing it? Sorry if this is overly basic. The half-press allows the camera to focus and set the white-balance (colour). Once it confirms, you complete the press and the image will be taken. If you are doing this, then the camera may need calibrating. You could try adjust the focus yourself. This video might be a good starting point. Otherwise think about getting serviced professionally. Make sure you can take sharp photos (of anything) before you spend too much time collecting out of focus photos!



The problem with knives is that they are reflective. The closer they are to a mirror polish, the more efficient they are at reflecting directional light. This creates a dilemma for either you or the camera (or both). Those very polished areas are likely to over-expose - you will lose detail in these areas if that occurs. It can also look ugly. If you adjust the exposure down so you don't over-expose the reflective areas, you will under-expose everywhere else! There is no easy dodge around this (high-dynamic range scene). This is why it can be really helpful to know some theory. You might be better at choosing exposure settings then the camera. Experiment with angles and see what works and what doesnt. Experiment with your exposure, see what the best 'compromise' is.

The light box will help. Diffuse light is far, far nicer to work with than directional light. You also have a nice collection of knives with non-mirror finishes. Natural/kasumi (non-mirror) finishes scatter reflected light. This makes them more diffuse and less likely to 'blow-out'

Lastly, you are essentially doing still-life, studio photography. If you are happy to set up your tripod, go ahead. Changing the view-point/perspective is more cumbersome but it means you can use low shutter speeds. It also means you can more effectively fiddle with settings. It may make it less daunting leaving full-auto for one of the other settings.

Personally, for this sort of photography, I often run full manual through the live view on a tripod. 

I set the exposure to some low value (say 1/30)
I set the aperture depending on an artistic/documentary decision. 
It might be wide-open for a narrow depth of field (small F-number, e.g. f/1.8) if I am taking an image of kanji at an angle
Mostly it is a narrow aperture for a wide depth of field (e.g. f/8). This is better for documenting the knife.

Set ISO to auto
Tweak exposure using exposure compensation. Decision is based on live view, exposure histogram and discretion.


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## RonB (Mar 1, 2021)

Something else to consider is camera shake. This can be lessened by a faster shutter speed, but my not be possible when trying to get the correct 
DOF. If you have an inexpensive tripod, any movement, (including touching the shutter button), can cause camera shake. Adding weight to the tripod will help some. A shutter release can also help, and not moving may prevent the floor from moving which can also cause camera shake.


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## Moooza (Mar 1, 2021)

Awesome advice, so much to read, thank you! 

I am using a tripod, with a 2s shutter delay to totally prevent any shake.


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## khashy (Mar 7, 2021)

Moooza said:


> Awesome advice, so much to read, thank you!
> 
> I am using a tripod, with a 2s shutter delay to totally prevent any shake.


Any more success? I’m learning from your experiments to try and take less sucky photos myself


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## Moooza (Mar 9, 2021)

Camera and lenses are now fully professionally cleaned. Platform has been raised at an angle too. I now realise that the lightstrip in the lightbox needs more diffusion, so will sort that out next. Also, I think the black background isn't helping, will get a few different shades of grey. 

Didn't spend too much time on it this time, just wanted to get some pics of the Tsukasa Hinoura kurouchi vs Shig kurouchi.


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## khashy (Mar 9, 2021)

Moooza said:


> Camera and lenses are now fully professionally cleaned. Platform has been raised at an angle too. I now realise that the lightstrip in the lightbox needs more diffusion, so will sort that out next. Also, I think the black background isn't helping, will get a few different shades of grey.
> 
> Didn't spend too much time on it this time, just wanted to get some pics of the Tsukasa Hinoura kurouchi vs Shig kurouchi.
> 
> ...



Much better than anything I’ve ever managed. Knives aren’t too shabby either!!


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## Luftmensch (Mar 10, 2021)

Moooza said:


> Camera and lenses are now fully professionally cleaned. Platform has been raised at an angle too. I now realise that the lightstrip in the lightbox needs more diffusion, so will sort that out next. Also, I think the black background isn't helping, will get a few different shades of grey.
> 
> Didn't spend too much time on it this time, just wanted to get some pics of the Tsukasa Hinoura kurouchi vs Shig kurouchi.
> 
> ...



It is coming together . That Tsukasa kuro is awesome!

_I think_ the second/middle photo may have focused on the background? The knives are a wee bit soft?

If you arent digging your background, you can 'melt it away' by raising the knives ~10cm. With a narrow depth of field (~f/2.8 or f/4), the background may be far away enough to be naturally blurred by the lens. Just make sure you dont knock over your knives!!


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## Matt Jacobs (Mar 10, 2021)

I think you have a very shallow focal plane and it looks to be focused on the background rather than the knife. From what I see on my monitor I would either increase depth of field or change the focus location slightly.


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## tostadas (Mar 10, 2021)

Moooza said:


> Camera and lenses are now fully professionally cleaned. Platform has been raised at an angle too. I now realise that the lightstrip in the lightbox needs more diffusion, so will sort that out next. Also, I think the black background isn't helping, will get a few different shades of grey.
> 
> Didn't spend too much time on it this time, just wanted to get some pics of the Tsukasa Hinoura kurouchi vs Shig kurouchi.


For knife photos where my lens is often shooting at near the minimum focal distance, I usually use aperture around F8-F11. Otherwise you won't get the whole blade in focus in your picture. Also I think @Matt Jacobs was correct, that the focus on those photos were a bit too far and got your background instead of the knives.


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## inferno (Mar 10, 2021)

Moooza said:


> Lightbox arrived. Been playing around with so many different settings. I think my camera needs a clean. I just can't get a crisp focus - time for it to get serviced I guess.
> 
> View attachment 116251



the handles look very sharp to me. seems to be focused correctly.

do you let the camera autofocus on a point or do you manually focus?

you can basically forget to manually focus on digital slrs unless you have a proper split image/microprism focus screen like old cameras have.
and those needs to be calibrated to the camera.

just select a point for the camera. af on that. shoot.

-------------

also all lenses have a certain f stop where the image is the sharpest. this is usually 3-4 stops above the lowest number you can get on you lens.
very often around 6,3 and 8.

zooms also have this but now its different for the different focal lengths. and also most zooms are only really sharp in a very narrow FL range on top of that.
it might be sharpest at 20mm or 55 or 80 or whatever.

there are many sites that actually test this for many lenses.









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if you want to find out if your camera is missing focus. shoot a ruler at a 45deg angle and focus on the line at number X and see if its sharp. and if its either back or front focusing.

here i'm focusing on the line at 100. and we can see its focused further back 1mm. but in my case its just because i shot it handheld one handed. so i'd say its focusing correctly. *now if there actually was a problem here this can be adjusted.




*


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