# First attempt at a restoration.



## Ericfg (Jul 17, 2020)

I'm new here so I'm not sure if this is the right place. I'll move or delete this thread if requested to do so.
Also, the blade in question is not a kitchen knife but I want to use is it as a stepping stone towards restoring (and re-handling) kitchen knives.

I have this old, dirty and rusty sugar cane knife (a Corneta) that I'd like to clean up. I think it's a 'beater' and a good place to start learning about restoring blades so I don't screw up a 'nicer' knife. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

I soaked a paper towel in distilled white vinegar, placed it on the blade and wrapped it plastic so it wouldn't evaporate, and left it overnight. This morning there was a fair amount of gunk on the towel and that rinsed of the blade.

Is a vinegar soak a good place to start when cleaning a blade or are there other options like acetone that might be better? I am pro-patina so the finished product should, ideally, be clean and functional but not shiny/polished.


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## ian (Jul 17, 2020)

You don’t want to polish it at all? That’s part of cleaning it up, imo. Being pro patina doesn’t mean anti polish, and it doesn’t have to be a fancy polish, just take it to 600 grit sandpaper or something. Patina’s going to come whether you want it or not. In any case, sandpaper or something abrasive will probably be necessary to clean off all the gunk to your liking, so I’d probably just start there rather than with less forceful methods like vinegar.

I’d personally put this thread in “sharpening station”, but whatever.


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## billyO (Jul 17, 2020)

I think you're OK and would say that was a good idea to start there. Are the pictures before or after?
Vinegar is a weak acid and acids do a good job in cleaning off rust. Patinas that you see on blades are merely oxides that don't go as deep as rust does. There are many makers who forced patinas using mustard but there's nothing magic about mustard, ketchup will work too. It's the acids that cause the dark oxides/patina.
As an aside, when finishing a damascus(pattern welded) blade, I will do 3 20-30 minute dunks of my blades in a ferric chloride bath (which is merely a much stronger acid), cleaning off the excess oxides with 0000 steel wool after each dunk. I know makers who will use vinegar for this step, it just takes a lot longer.
If there is still gunk that doesn't come off with the vinegar, it's probably something other than rust, and you'll have to try something else. 
Another commercial product that works pretty well for really rusted object is called Evaporust.


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## ian (Jul 17, 2020)

Good luck, btw! Looks fun. 

Listen to @billyO instead of me.


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## Ericfg (Jul 17, 2020)

Thanks for the opinions guys! I gotta run off to work but I'll be back later to discuss more.


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## cotedupy (Jul 17, 2020)

My first step with something like that would be a thick bicarb and water paste with a scrubbing sponge or fine wire wool, and see where you're at after there.

It won't take too much off, and will let you get an idea of anything further you might want to do.


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## cotedupy (Jul 17, 2020)

Sorry- I might have got the wrong end of the thread if you were talking about forcing a patina with vinegar, as opposed to taking rust off.

Cool project either way!


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## Tim Rowland (Jul 17, 2020)

as @billyO stated there is a product called evaporust that works quite well to remove all the old gunk and oxides and will give you a proper look at the state of the steel that you are dealing with.
From there your next steps would all depend on how much of its (well used look/rustic charm) you want to keep.
If you want to keep all of the pitting/dings/3D character forms over the years than I would just hit it with a wire brush wheel. put a nice new edge on it and enjoy.
If you want it to be a full restoration then you need to work your way through the grits of sand paper and redo your handle with fresh scales/pins/epoxy....If this is what you are looking to do there are many youtube videos of others doing such a project................many bad ones, and a few who know what they are doing.


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## billyO (Jul 17, 2020)

ian said:


> Listen to @billyO instead of me.


Thanks for the vote of confidence, Ian, but that could end up being a bad idea....


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## ian (Jul 17, 2020)

billyO said:


> Thanks for the vote of confidence, Ian, but that could end up being a bad idea....



I think I just want there to be a standing assumption that whenever knife makers start contributing to a thread, all my posts should be automatically ignored.


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## M1k3 (Jul 17, 2020)

ian said:


> I think I just want there to be a standing assumption that whenever knife makers start contributing to a thread, all my posts should be automatically ignored.


But you have a degree! So what if it's an unrelated field!?!??!???!


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## billyO (Jul 17, 2020)

ian said:


> I think I just want there to be a standing assumption that whenever knife makers start contributing to a thread, all my posts should be automatically ignored.


But just because someone calls them-self a knifemaker doesn't necessarily mean they know what they are talking about.


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## Ericfg (Jul 17, 2020)

> You don’t want to polish it at all? That’s part of cleaning it up, imo. 
This is the first step for me in restoring old knives so I want to start slow. As a numismatist and phalerist _any _cleaning of coins and medals is frowned upon. So I want to start really slow.
As a woodworker new scales would be a radical change but an acceptable change as well; leave the steel as original as possible but make the knife functional in the now.


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## Ericfg (Jul 17, 2020)

< Are the pictures before or after? 
After. It's about a 14" blade. In the lower image there's a 5" patch just to the left from the heel that's lighter in color than the rest of the blade. That's where I attached my vinegar-soak.


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## Ericfg (Jul 17, 2020)

> My first step with something like that would be a thick bicarb and water paste...

What is "bicarb" my friend?

> if you were talking about forcing a patina with vinegar, as opposed to taking rust off. 

No, not forcing patina. I'm looking for just very basic cleaning tips for now. There is oxidation, paint, plant matter, and older pitting on this blade. There is also a maker's mark that I want to preserve.


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## billyO (Jul 17, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> What is "bicarb" my friend?


I believe he's talking about baking soda AKA sodium bicarbonate


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## Ericfg (Jul 17, 2020)

> If you want to keep all of the pitting/dings/3D character forms over the years than I would just hit it with a wire brush wheel. 

A wire brush seems super harsh. I'm holding off even using a worn, green scrubby pad after a vinegar or 'evaporust' soak until I get a 'go-ahead'.

> redo your handle with fresh scales/pins 
That part, yes, that is my intention, if needed. In this particular instance the scales/pins are just too epically worn to mess with but ideally I find an older blade, with or without messed up scales, that I can keep in as much of it's original condition as I can. Other than putting a wicked, working edge on it.


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## Ericfg (Jul 17, 2020)

> I believe he's talking about baking soda AKA sodium bicarbonate 
Thanks! So just a 50/50 (more or less) mix of the two? And then what? A rinse in tap water? Mineral oil or WD40 or acetone to stop the rust at that stage?


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## billyO (Jul 17, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> A wire brush seems super harsh.


I agree and would consider this if other things don't work, especially when you say there;s a maker's mark you're trying to preserve.


Ericfg said:


> Thanks! So just a 50/50 (more or less) mix of the two? And then what? A rinse in tap water? Mineral oil or WD40 or acetone to stop the rust at that stage?


From Wikipedia:
"A manufacturer recommends a paste made from baking soda with minimal water as a gentle scouring powder, and is useful in removing surface rust, as the rust forms a water-soluble compound when in a concentrated alkaline solution; cold water should be used, as hot-water solutions can corrode steel."

Baking soda dissolved in water makes a base/alkaline solution, which neutralizes acids. Slightly off-topic here, but most makers, like myself, will etch damascus blades in a strong acid solution that will etch (or if you will, dissolve) the carbon steel, and after this etch, we neutralize the acid in water with baking soda dissolved in it. Some makers will use Windex which is basically ammonia, also a base/alkaline.


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## billyO (Jul 17, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> There is oxidation, paint, plant matter, and older pitting on this blade.


For the plant matter, washing this like any kitchen cutlery should take care of that. For the paint, depending on what type of paint (latex or oil-based), you might need to try something like acetone, nail polish remover, mineral spirits, etc.


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## Ericfg (Jul 17, 2020)

> Slightly off-topic here, but makers will etch damascus blades in a strong acid solution that will etch (or if you will, dissolve) the carbon steel, and after this etch, we neutralize the acid in water with baking soda dissolved in it. Some makers will use Windex which is basically ammonia, also a base/alkaline. 

Totally lost at this stage. I appreciate your input and effort to help but after "slightly" I have no clue what you're on about. I don't want to "etch". I don't think I have a damascus blade. I'm afraid of "strong acid". I do, however, have ammonia, acetone, mineral spirits


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## cotedupy (Jul 17, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> > I believe he's talking about baking soda AKA sodium bicarbonate
> Thanks! So just a 50/50 (more or less) mix of the two? And then what? A rinse in tap water? Mineral oil or WD40 or acetone to stop the rust at that stage?



Sorry yes- baking soda. 'Bicarb' might just be British shorthand for it.

You'll probably need less water than that, you don't want it to be fully dissolved. As billyO said, the paste itself should act as a mild abrasive, so you can use a soft cloth for scrubbing if you want. Then just rinse, repeat if necessary, and dry.

You'd want to remove the paint and other stuff first tho I imagine.


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## Ericfg (Jul 18, 2020)

Here's a couple better 'before' images for reference in case anybody's interested.
The blade is currently getting a soak with mineral spirits in two spots that had paint spatter on it to see what happens.
After that I'll do a bicarb procedure, maybe tonight if I remember to buy some at the store after work.


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## billyO (Jul 18, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> after "slightly" I have no clue what you're on about.


Too much information, sorry about that.

(That's never happened to me before.....)


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## Ericfg (Jul 20, 2020)

The latest is that a vinegar soak was/is a lot better than the bicarb/baking soda soak/scrub. The former is much less invasive/abusive than the latter, IMO.


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