# ☕️ Coffee!



## KnightKnightForever

I like it.

How about you?


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## Todd762

It’s great, get mine from Redbird Roasters in Montana.


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## KnightKnightForever

Todd762 said:


> It’s great, get mine from Redbird Roasters in Montana.



Nice! I get mine from a local market that has a bunch of different kinds that they roast weekly. I use a small electric grinder to grind small batches of beans in the morning to medium-coarse and then use a metal percolator to brew it. Just part of the AM routine. I am looking at getting a better grinder that grinds more evenly though. Any suggestions?


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## timebard

My setup is a Capresso burr grinder and Aeropress. I have a handful of local places I get whole beans from. For a long time I did pretty exclusively dark roasts but over the past year or so I've gradually moved to medium or at most medium-dark roasts as I've dialed in what I like and don't.

For better or worse I've gotten to the point where I rarely like coffee I get out as much as what I make at home. On the bright side I have a pretty good cup every morning, but it does make coffee meetings and whatnot a little less enjoyable...


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## KnightKnightForever

timebard said:


> My setup is a Capresso burr grinder and Aeropress. I have a handful of local places I get whole beans from. For a long time I did pretty exclusively dark roasts but over the past year or so I've gradually moved to medium or at most medium-dark roasts as I've dialed in what I like and don't.
> 
> For better or worse I've gotten to the point where I rarely like coffee I get out as much as what I make at home. On the bright side I have a pretty good cup every morning, but it does make coffee meetings and whatnot a little less enjoyable...



I prefer medium roasts too. And yeah, I hate having to get coffee out. It’s ALWAYS disappointing, especially living in a food/coffee desert.


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## Delat

I used to be all about the fresh single origin roasts in my hands within 2-3 days of roasting, pour-over or drip brewed. Sometimes ordered from Intelligensia or Blue Bottle, or picked up locally when I was in town. 

I switched over to the dark side last year and got a N’espresso and loving it so far.


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## stringer

I'm running a coffeeshop nowadays. All of the espresso I can drink is a nice perk.


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## KnightKnightForever

stringer said:


> I'm running a coffeeshop nowadays. All of the espresso I can drink is a nice perk.



Lucky guy!! Serve food there too, or only coffee?


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## AT5760

I alternate between cold brew and drip coffee. My wife being the awesome person that she is randomly surprises me with bags from Tandem Coffee, which is one of my favorites.

We each drink only one cup a day. So, for drip coffee it's fresh ground, but with a really cheap Black & Decker 4 cup machine. Looking to upgrade. Anyone have experiences with the smaller Bonavita or Zojirushi coffee makers? I know I could just as easily do Chemex, but there's a balance to convenience, quality, and multitasking that I want to achieve.


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## MarcelNL

Coffee, indeed!

I roast my own, and use a vintage commercial espresso machine fro my daily fix (something like 6 double espresso's). Fresh roasted (after resting it a couple of days) and fresh ground decent beans make all the difference!
Grinders for drip etc are not that expensive, for Espresso things get expensive real fast.
For advice I'd suggest looking at the grinder section at Home Barista forum, beware it's a really deep rabbit hole.


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## Todd762

For a grinder I’ve been running a Kitchenaid Professional Burr Grinder burr grinder since 2007ish. There are probably better choices now in the price range they are asking for it nowadays. I only use it for drip coffee. I once looked down the rabbit hole of espresso grinders and it scared me, ran away as quickly as possible.


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## Towerguy

Black Rifle coffee here.


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## Lars

Recovered espresso addict here.. Came to my senses and now just make a (perfect) aeropress or v60 in the morning.


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## stringer

KnightKnightForever said:


> Lucky guy!! Serve food there too, or only coffee?



Yes. We have Southern/Soul inspired breakfast/lunch/brunch menu and bakery items.

Front Porch Cafe in Richmond, VA if anyone wants to drop in and say hi.


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## Rangen

I like coffee, but I'm sort of casual about it. I'm willing to drink the coffee I roast up to two weeks after the roast. I'll even go three for Yemen beans.

Split my daily coffee consumption into two parts. French press in the morning, espresso at noon.


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## LostHighway

I have a small collection of brewing gear from the shallow end of pool: French press, vacuum/siphon, Aeropress, and a variety of conventional pour over filter brewers (Kalita, Chemex, Melitta). My grinder is a Baratza Virtuoso with the upgraded burr set. I use an upgraded Behmor 1600A/B roaster.



MarcelNL said:


> ...for Espresso things get expensive real fast.
> For advice I'd suggest looking at the grinder section at Home Barista forum, beware it's a really deep rabbit hole.



As MarcelNL noted you are in a whole different world of expense with espresso. A full manual set up like a ROK or Flair plus a good manual grinder will get your foot in the door but doesn't give you steamed milk. It is easy to spend north of $3k on a good but not extravagant prosumer machine and grinder, and north of $5k may start to look entirely reasonable.


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## Ochazuke

AT5760 said:


> I alternate between cold brew and drip coffee. My wife being the awesome person that she is randomly surprises me with bags from Tandem Coffee, which is one of my favorites.
> 
> We each drink only one cup a day. So, for drip coffee it's fresh ground, but with a really cheap Black & Decker 4 cup machine. Looking to upgrade. Anyone have experiences with the smaller Bonavita or Zojirushi coffee makers? I know I could just as easily do Chemex, but there's a balance to convenience, quality, and multitasking that I want to achieve.


If it's just me I use a Kalita, but whenever I have guests I bust out the Bonavita 5-cup, One touch with a thermal carafe. I can't say enough good things about it. The heating system is really fast and extremely consistent. There is a setting to bloom the coffee before brewing, which is a really nice feature on an automatic drip machine. Lastly the carafe is well-insulated, so you don't get that burned tasted coffee sometimes gets after sitting on a warmer too long. Minimal effort and the coffee is almost as good as my 'hand poured on a timer and scale' version.


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## Bensbites

I prefer my centrL/South American beans steeped and filtered. My favorite is aeropress or ccd. I have been roasting about a pound a week on my behmor 1600 for 9 yrs.


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## captaincaed

It's a tool. But when I get a good breve machiato, it's a good day


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## Andrew Deranger

Baltimore Coffee Company here.


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## Dendrobatez

Everything needed to make coffee at work. I like all coffee: bad coffee, good coffee - its all got a time and place.


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## coxhaus

I am excited about my Baratza Encore coffee grinder arriving on next Wednesday. Where is a good place to start for filtered brew? I trying come up with a plan when it arrives.

Do most people weigh their beans using so much water? I buy distilled water for coffee. This is what I am using to heat water for a pour over.


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## Pointless1

Dendrobatez said:


> Everything needed to make coffee at work. I like all coffee: bad coffee, good coffee - its all got a time and place.



Amen brother! The bean is good even when bad, and sometimes great when only good.


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## Pointless1

coxhaus said:


> I am excited about my Baratza Encore coffee grinder arriving on next Wednesday. Where is a good place to start for filtered brew? I trying come up with a plan when it arrives.
> 
> Do most people weigh their beans using so much water? I buy distilled water for coffee. This is what I am using to heat water for a pour over.
> 
> View attachment 143868



You can weigh it if you want but the reality is that flavor varies by grind and age, so you’ll want to remain somewhat flexible. I pretty much figure out a high and low limit for a bag and hedge based on each previous brew. May not make the optimal cup but almost guarantees a very good cup. 

Re distilled water, in my experience it's good for the brewer (no minerals) but hurts the flavor for the same reason. For a really light or delicate brew it may be better but at that point I switch to tea because my preferred coffee has some ass.


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## timebard

Bensbites said:


> I prefer my centrL/South American beans steeped and filtered. My favorite is aeropress or ccd. I have been roasting about a pound a week on my behmor 1600 for 9 yrs.



CCD? All Google is giving me is "cafe coffee day" which appears to be the Starbucks of India... guessing that's not it!


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## Lars

timebard said:


> CCD? All Google is giving me is "cafe coffee day" which appears to be the Starbucks of India... guessing that's not it!


Clever coffee dripper


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## timebard

coxhaus said:


> I am excited about my Baratza Encore coffee grinder arriving on next Wednesday. Where is a good place to start for filtered brew? I trying come up with a plan when it arrives.
> 
> Do most people weigh their beans using so much water? I buy distilled water for coffee. This is what I am using to heat water for a pour over.
> 
> View attachment 143868



I weighed my beans/grounds when I first started with the Aeropress but honestly that's not what I want to fiddle with at 7am... I've figured out the point on my grinder timer that roughly corresponds to how much grounds I want for a full Aeropress (a set amount of water). Simple and effective if not super precise.


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## MarcelNL

I nowadays eyeball the dose for espresso, but I cheat using a timer I added to the grinder.
For drip I;d start weighing grinds and timing your pours for a while so you learn fast what you like best, after a while you learn seeing where things need to be...until you start using a completely different coffee.

Water needs a certain mineral content for taste, distilled is not the best. For my espressso machine I use RPavlis recipe (can be found on HB) to avoid calcium buildup and the added Potassiumbicarb buffers the acidity of the water to keep the boiler solid for ages. If you are using a water kettle lime scale is not that much of an issue unless you want to avoid scale buildup or do not like the water for taste, it's easy enough to buy some true mineral water with low total dissolved solids (some locations of .f.e. Polar Spring water are better than others).

Bonavita is the goto tool for many drip drinkers as it allows for easy temp control! Sort your water weigh your doses and you're good to go !


errr edit; almost forgot the MOST important bit...buy great software, as in freshly roasted beans from a reputable roaster.


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## Lars

I use a lab scale to weigh the beans and water


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## MarcelNL

I use a drug dealer scale


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## Pointless1

I’m seeing a few others have discovered the magic that is Aeropress. While I still swear my Moccamaster makes a great cup, the aero does a great job for a quick cuppa.


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## Rotivator

I love coffee, but caffeine doesn't really do much for me. So it's more of a weekend thing. Hand burr grinder as I can't countenance the higher cost. Get beans from a local roaster. Prefer medium roasts. I use french press mostly.


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## Bensbites

timebard said:


> CCD? All Google is giving me is "cafe coffee day" which appears to be the Starbucks of India... guessing that's not it!


Sorry. Clever coffee dripper. 








Clever Coffee Dripper - LARGE


The Clever Dripper gives you full flavor extraction and good body. The stopper at the bottom allows water to drain when the filtercone is placed on a cup. It's made of durable BPA-free plastic and is easy to disassemble for cleaning. The Clever Coffee Dripper combines the best features of French...




www.sweetmarias.com





there is also a ceramic /silicone version from bonvida both work great in my opinion.


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## Bensbites

Pointless1 said:


> I’m seeing a few others have discovered the magic that is Aeropress. While I still swear my Moccamaster makes a great cup, the aero does a great job for a quick cuppa.


They are different. The auto brew is for when I want a full pot or a quick smaller version. The aeropress is when I want something more manual.


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## ian

Ochazuke said:


> If it's just me I use a Kalita, but whenever I have guests I bust out the Bonavita 5-cup, One touch with a thermal carafe. I can't say enough good things about it. The heating system is really fast and extremely consistent. There is a setting to bloom the coffee before brewing, which is a really nice feature on an automatic drip machine. Lastly the carafe is well-insulated, so you don't get that burned tasted coffee sometimes gets after sitting on a warmer too long. Minimal effort and the coffee is almost as good as my 'hand poured on a timer and scale' version.



I have a Bonavita too. Like it a lot. My only complaint is that I am never sufficiently motivated to clean the thing, e.g. getting the old coffee stains out of the carafe and basket and deliming or whatever the rest of the machine. (This is a me problem.) I think the taste isn't as good as my pour-overs because of that.


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## drsmp

It has its place, with some steels even better etchant than FeCl


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## coxhaus

I forgot to add I use a Melitta number 4 with filters for a pour over. Should this be replaced?

Our tap water has heavy minerals and high PH so it is real alkaline. The distilled water I buy is not triple distilled water. It is filtered so there are still minerals in it.
I will try spring water as that is my other option but the distilled water does make good tea.

I like the Bonavita but the display is kind of funky. Ours has become hard to read.

I had a nice glass French press but I took it camping and broke it. I like the coffee from it but my wife thought it was a little muddy. It could of been my grind.

I currently don't use a scale to weigh coffee I use a scoop actually 2. My wife does own a scale I could use.


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## tcmx3

I have a pretty reasonable setup for pourover:

Baratza Forte BG
Acaia Pearl scale
Brewista gooseneck
April Coffee Brewer (my personal favorite), Hario V60, Aeropress and a Chemex
An army of notNeutral Lino cups
As far as coffees go, I strongly prefer very light roasts, mostly Ethiopian coffee. Im really a big fan of JBC roasters up in Madison WI, but there are tons of great ones: Red Rooster, Figure 8, Dragonfly, the list goes on really.


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## KnightKnightForever

ian said:


> I have a Bonavita too. Like it a lot. My only complaint is that I am never sufficiently motivated to clean the thing, e.g. getting the old coffee stains out of the carafe and basket and deliming or whatever the rest of the machine. (This is a me problem.) I think the taste isn't as good as my pour-overs because of that.



Cleaning espresso machines is so cumbersome and annoying.


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## KnightKnightForever

Is using reverse osmosis filtered water for my coffee a bad thing for the flavor?


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## Michi

KnightKnightForever said:


> Is using reverse osmosis filtered water for my coffee a bad thing for the flavor?


I can’t see why it would be. RO water is essentially the same as distilled water. Almost no salts or other impurities remain in it.

RO water is also nice to drink, BTW.


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## ian

KnightKnightForever said:


> Is using reverse osmosis filtered water for my coffee a bad thing for the flavor?



I thought the common understanding about this was that your coffee won’t taste as good without some of the missing minerals, e.g. magnesium. I haven’t tried personally tho.


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## LostHighway

ian said:


> I thought the common understanding about this was that your coffee won’t taste as good without some of the missing minerals, e.g. magnesium. I haven’t tried personally tho.



For both coffee and beer brewing there seems to be something of a consensus that using distilled, RO, or even heavily filtered water results in less flavor. Of course there are some localities that have really bad tasting water due to unwanted impurities. Here are some examples of water chemistry for brewing some "classic" beer styles, emulating the water at the original brewing sites. Home-Barista.com water thread with good links here.The hitch for espresso machines is that mineralized water is going to require more frequent cleaning. More manual pour over it is effectively a non-issue.


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## outofgamut

Living in one of the world's coffee capitals (Melbourne) I do love my coffee. Sometimes it feels we have more coffee shops than traffic lights here.

Slowly climbed up the craziness ladder over the decades. Currently on a lovely dual boiler, PID controlled machine (by far not even close to the top end of the market, see here) which is plumbed in and draws water through an in-line water filter. I'm using a Compak K8 pro grinder I got off an auction site many years ago for a few hundred bucks. Have been enjoying absolutely sensational single origin Ethiopian coffee over recent months.


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## coxhaus

KnightKnightForever said:


> Is using reverse osmosis filtered water for my coffee a bad thing for the flavor?



I have had 2 different RO units that fit under the sink and they only knock you down a ways. They do not remove all the minerals if you have heavy minerals like I do in Texas. My last unit was from Costco. The one before was before Costco existed. I think they make better tea and coffee than tap water but I am no expert. I bought it to make better ice for my ice maker. I then figured out Ozarka would deliver 5 gal water jugs for not much money back then which was better tasting. So, I had water delivery for over 10 years. Ozarka got bought out and I can't stand the new water company so I am out. For the last year I have been hauling water from those water machines at the supermarkets for tea and coffee. in 5 gal jugs. I also buy jugs of water.

I had a Culligan water treatment in the late seventies and they were the best. They will even maintain the unit for a monthly fee. They are kind of expensive but the best I have used. Back then they did not have RO for high PH water like we have in Texas. Now they do. Back then I lived in the country and had a 660 feet deep well with a Culligan system.


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## PineWood

For me the key is having access to freshly roasted coffee. Once you are used to it, you cannot drink that stale sh*t anymore that is still served way too often.
I roast my own for more than ten years now, using a very simple bread machine/heat gun setup. It really isn't that difficult and it's fun. I roast 300 grams of greens every week. I buy the greens two times a year at Caffenation, a roaster of specialty coffee in Antwerp. They do a good job selecting the beans and are happy to provide me the good stuff. First I roast the single origins separated, once I get to know the coffee I start experimenting with blending.
The coffee I make is french press, pourover (V60) and espresso (FrancisFrancis - I know it's not the best, but it's decent and has high waf). I grind manually (Comandante C40 and Apollo BPlus) though I have an Isomac gran macinino but I don't like the noise.


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## coxhaus

So, I received my Baratza Encore coffee grinder. The ground coffee is very uniform. I think it has upped my game on making coffee. I am still using my Melitta. I have been using a Melitta for 25 years, probably longer. But I used a scale to weigh the water in our cups now. I started with encore setting at 20 for the grind. I then added 2 tablespoons of coffee to each cup adding 8 oz of hot water. I did a coffee bloom for 30 seconds starting. It seems like a good starting point.

I guess I need to look for a better brewing method than the Melitta. I plan to go to a high-end coffee shop in a couple of days and see what they have. And of course, buy some nice coffee they have roasted. Anderson Coffee in Austin Texas. I have been buying from Anderson Coffee for over 40 years.

Any suggestions for making my coffee better?


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## Ochazuke

coxhaus said:


> So, I received my Baratza Encore coffee grinder. The ground coffee is very uniform. I think it has upped my game on making coffee. I am still using my Melitta. I have been using a Melitta for 25 years, probably longer. But I used a scale to weigh the water in our cups now. I started with encore setting at 20 for the grind. I then added 2 tablespoons of coffee to each cup adding 8 oz of hot water. I did a coffee bloom for 30 seconds starting. It seems like a good starting point.
> 
> I guess I need to look for a better brewing method than the Melitta. I plan to go to a high-end coffee shop in a couple of days and see what they have. And of course, buy some nice coffee they have roasted. Anderson Coffee in Austin Texas. I have been buying from Anderson Coffee for over 40 years.
> 
> Any suggestions for making my coffee better?


The best investment is pen and paper. Like getting better at many things, it is really helpful to have a methodology. Start with base settings and tweak one thing at a time. Take notes. 

Then try different methods entirely and take notes on that. Sometimes the combination of changes produces a different effect than you would expect. But you'll learn your own preferences and be able to dial things in faster if you have a methodology than not.


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## Rangen

coxhaus said:


> Any suggestions for making my coffee better?



I am heavily biased toward French Press coffee (and espresso). I think it's the extra texture. Anyway, try some French Press and see what you think. If the Encore is like my Virtuoso, then 31 is a good setting for French press. I use 195 degree water (or 208 for Yemen beans), from one of those Zojirushi water heaters. I first fill the press with the hot water, then empty it while grinding, then add the coffee, then fill halfway, then wait 30 seconds, then stir and fill the rest of the way. 4 minutes later (or 5 if I happen to be using Yemen beans at 195 degrees), I press. There was some experimentation to get to this point.

BTW if you don't have a good uniform grind, French Press is kind of awful. But you have the right grinder for it.


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## MarcelNL

coxhaus said:


> So, I received my Baratza Encore coffee grinder. The ground coffee is very uniform. I think it has upped my game on making coffee. I am still using my Melitta. I have been using a Melitta for 25 years, probably longer. But I used a scale to weigh the water in our cups now. I started with encore setting at 20 for the grind. I then added 2 tablespoons of coffee to each cup adding 8 oz of hot water. I did a coffee bloom for 30 seconds starting. It seems like a good starting point.
> 
> I guess I need to look for a better brewing method than the Melitta. I plan to go to a high-end coffee shop in a couple of days and see what they have. And of course, buy some nice coffee they have roasted. Anderson Coffee in Austin Texas. I have been buying from Anderson Coffee for over 40 years.
> 
> Any suggestions for making my coffee better?




Read up on methodology (temperature control, pour over technique etc) look at f.e. a V60 and look up water on Home Barista, buy good software and find out what you like best. Coffee (non espresso or turkish) is not that difficult, but keep in mind that the Melitta is sort of a gold standard for drip machines.


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## Knivperson

I have a "discovery subscription" with a national company (called La Cabra) where I get 2x200 grams of light roasted beans from small organic farmers from different countries each month. I find that light roasted beans allow much more nuances to be tasted in the coffee and not just bitterness - such as red berries, dried fruit, chocolate etc. - much of it, especially from Kenya, is almost tea-like.

I use a Fellow Ode grinder, which I like for my kind of brewing process, which is usually a poor over in my Kalita Wave 185 or - if we are more than two people - a french press. I have a Fellow Stagg kettle with a swan neck as well, which has a build in timer. I weight out 15 grams of beans to 250 grams of water, both of which I weigh off. I poor around 50 percept of the water in 30 seconds, and the rest for the next minute. The only thing I try to vary is the coarseness of the grind.


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## MarcelNL

KnightKnightForever said:


> Cleaning espresso machines is so cumbersome and annoying.


what cleaning? After a shot I knock the puck and rinse and wipe the PF in seconds. Get a lever, use proper water (preventing scale) add in some potassium bicarb to buffer low pH and pull espresso....

I just serviced my Urania yesterday, after pulling 12-20 double espresso's every day for more than a year since last service. All I needed to do was remove literally 6 crumbs of coffee grounds from the inside of the shower screen, wipe off the piston and seals and apply a thin coat of Dow 111...5 minutes.


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## KnightKnightForever

MarcelNL said:


> what cleaning? After a shot I knock the puck and rinse and wipe the PF in seconds. Get a lever, use proper water (preventing scale) add in some potassium bicarb to buffer low pH and pull espresso....
> 
> I just serviced my Urania yesterday, after pulling 12-20 double espresso's every day for more than a year since last service. All I needed to do was remove literally 6 crumbs of coffee grounds from the inside of the shower screen, wipe off the piston and seals and apply a thin coat of Dow 111...5 minutes.



Is there a modern day equivalent to the Urania?


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## Rangen

KnightKnightForever said:


> Is there a modern day equivalent to the Urania?



I don't know whether it qualifies, especially since it has a small boiler, but I absolutely love my Olympia Cremina lever-pull machine.


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## MarcelNL

Londinium, Bezzera Strega, Olympia (Cremina), Bosco, Kees van der Westen, are just a few...let's say those are the Shigefusa's and Kato's of this world., it's a DEEP rabbit hole.

Long ago I wanted a serious espresso machine and narrowed my options down to the Londinium or the Strega, and then came across a picture of the (vintage) Faema Faemina and fell in love. Later I added the Urania simply because I was constantly filling the boiler of the Faemina that was designed for an after dinner espresso or two.

New is not better, so why not get a nice accessible vintage lever ? The espresso machine itself is far less important than the grinder for the result in your cup, I have Cafelat Robot for travel duty and that puts out espresso that is on par with any machine out there.


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## outofgamut

This is related to the topic we’re discussing:









Coffee bean price spike just a taste of what’s to come with climate change


Global coffee prices forecast to hit $4.44 a kilogram due to Brazilian cold snap following a string of droughts and pandemic supply chain issues




www.theguardian.com


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## coxhaus

So, I bought one of these off Amazon as it seems to be a good price. We have a 5-inch-thick pile of Melitta filters for it already. My wife had a friend over and it seemed to work well. I thought about a Chemex but I am not sure about the filters and getting them. I would think the Chemex would cool down pretty fast being glass. My wife likes the new Melitta thermal craft as it is easy to clean. You can get your hand inside to clean it. It also keeps the coffee warm enough for drinking.

Tomorrow we are going to Andersons Coffee in Austin Texas shopping. I will see if I find anything fun.


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## coxhaus

So, we had fun at Andersons Coffee in Austin today. We bought 4 pounds of coffee. We got Ethiopian, French roast, special blend and Honduras.
We had to try the Ethiopian when we got home and it is great. They did not have a lot of toys maybe because they have only been open for 3 weeks since covid. They have been mail-order only during covid.
I was thinking on buying a H V60 pour over filter system but they did not have it. I wanted to compare it to the Melitta system we have to see if could tell a difference, maybe later. They still are using the Melitta system.

My Baratza Encore coffee grinder has made a big improvement on our coffee.

Oh, I bought a 1/4 pound of chicory to try and make New Orleans coffee. I thought it might be fun.

PS
I used 18 grams of Ethiopian coffee and 270 grams of water @98C.


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## Rangen

coxhaus said:


> My Baratza Encore coffee grinder has made a big improvement on our coffee.



When I first got serious about coffee, I kept reading that the most important thing was the grinder. Really?? The _grinder_?? But it's true.


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## aaoueee

I've had this rig for 3 years now. Did it make financial sense? Probably not. Have I ever regretted it? No.


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## coxhaus

Very nice.


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## aaoueee

MarcelNL said:


> what cleaning? After a shot I knock the puck and rinse and wipe the PF in seconds. Get a lever, use proper water (preventing scale) add in some potassium bicarb to buffer low pH and pull espresso....
> 
> I just serviced my Urania yesterday, after pulling 12-20 double espresso's every day for more than a year since last service. All I needed to do was remove literally 6 crumbs of coffee grounds from the inside of the shower screen, wipe off the piston and seals and apply a thin coat of Dow 111...5 minutes.



This. Just using good water is likely the biggest factor in terms of proper maintenance.


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## MarcelNL

the investment IMO is always justified if you get the satisfaction of being able to make great espresso (and espresso based drinks) in return, the only drawback is that you will probably hardly ever order coffee elsewhere....(that is why I have the Robot for travel)

The Investment can stay low if you invest in a modest vintage lever, A Faema Faemina (my starter kit) Pavoni, there are tons out there to be picked up for little money, a bit of DIY cleaning and repair, buy a used pro grinder such as the omni present Mazzer Super Jolly, clean it and buy new burrs and you're set for a decade or two of great espresso for as little as $1000 plus the software of your choice, now look how many espresso's (usually of questionable quality) that buys you.


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## Chips

I dabble a bit.


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## coxhaus

Does anybody know how much chicory to add to a cup of coffee? We got our new coffee bar setup and I made some fun chicory coffee. I think I added too much chicory.


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## e30Birdy

Oh a coffee thread. I got a setup:

ECM Synchronika (with Matrix shower screen and IMS Barista Pro baskets)
Bentwood Vertical 63 (had a Ceado e37s) I am a single doser.
Acaia Lunar
Bravo tamper
Asso coffee leveler

I kind of want to swap the machine but that is only because I have kind of always been in love with the Linea Mini, but a Eagle One and a few others are real lust factor machines. Will they make a huge difference? Probably not but they look sexy.


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## Grayswandir

Why add chicory at all? I'm just curious. I know that's what they serve at some of the detention centers around my area in place of coffee. Is there some sort of health benefit, or do you just like the taste?


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## e30Birdy

Grayswandir said:


> Why add chicory at all? I'm just curious. I know that's what they serve at some of the detention centers around my area in place of coffee. Is there some sort of health benefit, or do you just like the taste?



Coffee can have about 800 different flavors depending on where, how high its grow and so on. Third wave coffee is like nothing else.

I have had non-coffee people come over and drink a cup. Like no sugar as they were use to and then always drink coffee here as the coffee I had was a super light roast that was more like tea in flavor than "coffee" what people think is the taste of coffee.

Or coffee that tasted like milk chocolate with a real strong strawberry finish.


----------



## Grayswandir

I've had some nice tasting coffee over the years, my personal favorite is Greek coffee, even though I'm an Italian! What is "Third Wave Coffee"? I've had chicory before, I personally didn't like it (as a coffee substitute) but maybe it wasn't made properly? If it had been served on it's own merit, rathen then someone saying "It tastes just like coffee" maybe my reaction would have been different.


----------



## coxhaus

Grayswandir said:


> I've had some nice tasting coffee over the years, my personal favorite is Greek coffee, even though I'm an Italian! What is "Third Wave Coffee"? I've had chicory before, I personally didn't like it (as a coffee substitute) but maybe it wasn't made properly? If it had been served on it's own merit, rathen then someone saying "It tastes just like coffee" maybe my reaction would have been different.



We drink coffee with chicory at Cafe du Monde in New Orleans with beignets. It seemed liked something to do. I have not been there since before covid. I have never made chicory coffee before and kind of missing New Orleans.

I have my Irish coffee down. I add 1/2 shot Jameson to a normal small mug, tsp sugar, coffee, whipped cream, and a drop of cream de mint on the whipped cream for color.

I don't do this in the morning. Nothing messes with my morning coffee.

My wife says she likes the color of chicory coffee better than the flavor when you add cream.


----------



## MarcelNL

chicory is 'ersatz' coffee, substitute for when coffee was too expensive or unavailable.



e30Birdy said:


> I kind of want to swap the machine but that is only because I have kind of always been in love with the Linea Mini, but a Eagle One and a few others are real lust factor machines. Will they make a huge difference? Probably not but they look sexy.


likely little difference unless you want a machine that can do profiling etc, the grinder has more impact.


----------



## e30Birdy

MarcelNL said:


> likely little difference unless you want a machine that can do profiling etc, the grinder has more impact.



Linea Mini is just a lot sturdier and more pressure for steaming. I think with the new board it has pre infusion though which the synchronika doesn't have. I have thought about the Decent but even though 8 am about the biggest tech nerd I dunno about it. The eagle one or that lever that Dave Corby has been showing off on his YouTube. I will let the market develop and see what happens, nothing out there to make a big enough difference. Grinder wise I am pretty much at my end game.


----------



## MarcelNL

try a vintage lever, get an Arrarex Caravel or a La Peppina, or a Faemina and play for a bit? Easy to unload at no loss.


----------



## Rangen

I have been drinking beans from a local roster, because my roaster is busted. 

Today was a good day, because I managed to wield a rubber mallet in the right place and finally get the drum off the base, so I can replace the faulty igniter that has been blocking my roasting for two weeks.

I still need one more good day, to get the gears meshing properly when I put it back together.

Marcel, I wish you had been there with your advice, when I was buying. I knew I wanted a lever machine, and the only two options I saw consisted of one super-expensive one, and one with an exposed boiler that I just knew my wife would burn herself on. So I threw money at the problem. I don't really regret it now; the Cremina has been beautiful. But your path sounds like a lot of fun, and I'd have taken it, had I known about it.


----------



## deskjockey

KnightKnightForever said:


> Nice! I get mine from a local market that has a bunch of different kinds that they roast weekly. I use a small electric grinder to grind small batches of beans in the morning to medium-coarse and then use a metal percolator to brew it. Just part of the AM routine. I am looking at getting a better grinder that grinds more evenly though. Any suggestions?



A lot really depends on how much you are willing to spend and what coffee you make. French, drip, espresso, etc. all have different needs. Don't get me started with Turkish!

Baratza is the one I generally start with but, the EU has some great options as well. I must admit though, the coffee at the Monastery in Belgium was the best and I think it came out of a K-cup or something similar! The Nespresso (sp?) was a hot thing for me as well in the Netherlands with 1 Euro cups in little shops in the main shopping district which might have been a promo with the company competing against Keruig.


----------



## deskjockey

MarcelNL said:


> For advice I'd suggest looking at the grinder section at Home Barista forum, beware it's a really deep rabbit hole.



That site has killed a few of my weekends over the years!


----------



## deskjockey

coxhaus said:


> I had a nice glass French press but I took it camping and broke it. I like the coffee from it but my wife thought it was a little muddy. It could of been my grind.



The Bodum stainless option works well and is a much better choice for camping use though, it is heavier.

For muddiness, watch out for the fines. This can be reduced by your grinder settings or by "sifting" which to me means dribbling the grinds and blowing on them push the fines outside of the brew cup.


----------



## deskjockey

ian said:


> I thought the common understanding about this was that your coffee won’t taste as good without some of the missing minerals, e.g. magnesium. I haven’t tried personally tho.



When I live in Tucson, Az, I didn't like the Arsenic levels in my tap water so, Reverse Osmosis it was.

The Japanese "HOT POT" was awesome for brewed tea! For espresso, the "coffee mineral" tabs put the right balance back into the water for coffee IMHO.


----------



## deskjockey

e30Birdy said:


> ...
> I kind of want to swap the machine but that is only because I have kind of always been in love with the Linea Mini, but a Eagle One and a few others are real lust factor machines. Will they make a huge difference? Probably not but they look sexy.



I hear you on the Linea Mini! And, pre-COVID it was a pretty easy step up from there to a machine with 2 or 3 brew heads. When you move to separate heaters and heated brew heads, you are ready for back-to-back espresso's to make your heart flutter and skip a few beats! When I was bad, 6 or more double espresso's would mess with my blood pressure and heartbeat pretty bad. The side benefit was late "coffee" with friends never bothered my sleep and normal amounts of coffee, tea, or soda had zero effect on my blood pressure or the steadiness of my hands.


----------



## deskjockey

MarcelNL said:


> chicory is 'ersatz' coffee, substitute for when coffee was too expensive or unavailable.



For those of us in the "Southern States", Chicory was a side effect of the Civil War, yes the one over slavery and cessation/Confederacy.

Cafe DuMonde is the one most people think of today regarding Chicory. Personally, I prefer good coffee but, the Cafe DuMonde version is pretty good too.


----------



## coxhaus

deskjockey said:


> For those of us in the "Southern States", Chicory was a side effect of the Civil War, yes the one over slavery and cessation/Confederacy.
> 
> Cafe DuMonde is the one most people think of today regarding Chicory. Personally, I prefer good coffee but, the Cafe DuMonde version is pretty good too.



I was just thinking for something different. I saw the Chicory at Andersons Coffee in Austin Texas and thought of Cafe DuMonde so I bought some.

Since you are in Texas you might try Anderson's Coffee French roast coffee. I think it is very good and their shipping is really easy. My wife order's all the time so we don't have to drive in to Austin.


----------



## deskjockey

coxhaus said:


> I was just thinking for something different. I saw the Chicory at Andersons Coffee in Austin Texas and thought of Cafe DuMonde so I bought some.
> 
> Since you are in Texas you might try Anderson's Coffee French roast coffee. I think it is very good and their shipping is really easy. My wife order's all the time so we don't have to drive in to Austin.



Wow! 

Turns out I will be in Austin on Friday! Sounds like I need to add Anderson's to my stops in town.


----------



## Moooza

For anyone interested, the World Barista Championship is on now, in Milan. Every entrant's first round can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/c/WorldCoffeeChampionships

The 2020 championship was cancelled because it was meant to be held in Melbourne but we've been in lockdown since the beginning of time or something.

Some great finalists in the past, including James Hoffman in 2007, who worked with Hestan Blumenthal, to form his signature drink.


----------



## Mingooch

Looking for some opinions. I am trying to get an espresso machine. The Rancilio Silvia seems to be a great option. However, if I get something available at William Sonoma, I can get 40% off retail. Opinions and suggestions from there as well as if they are worth it over the Rancilio are appreciated. I am trying to be in the 2k$ or less range. Grinder will be a separate purchase. I know how important it can be.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Mingooch said:


> Looking for some opinions. I am trying to get an espresso machine. The Rancilio Silvia seems to be a great option. However, if I get something available at William Sonoma, I can get 40% off retail. Opinions and suggestions from there as well as if they are worth it over the Rancilio are appreciated. I am trying to be in the 2k$ or less range. Grinder will be a separate purchase. I know how important it can be.


If you decide to get a Silvia (a great starter machine btw which started my coffee journey) make sure you budget for PID. It makes a huge difference and ensures consistent espresso extraction. For a budget of $2K or less, the Rocket is a great E61 machine worth consideration.








Appartamento


With Rocket Espresso Appartamento, you have the power of a High-end Espresso Machine in a Stylish Housing. Small Size, Fits under Kitchen Cabinets. Shop now!




www.chriscoffee.com


----------



## Chips

Mingooch said:


> Looking for some opinions. I am trying to get an espresso machine. The Rancilio Silvia seems to be a great option. However, if I get something available at William Sonoma, I can get 40% off retail. Opinions and suggestions from there as well as if they are worth it over the Rancilio are appreciated. I am trying to be in the 2k$ or less range. Grinder will be a separate purchase. I know how important it can be.



Crossland CC1 is a compelling entry level PID espresso machine.



https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/crossland-coffee-cc1-v-2-0-espresso-machine


----------



## Moooza

Mingooch said:


> Looking for some opinions. I am trying to get an espresso machine. The Rancilio Silvia seems to be a great option. However, if I get something available at William Sonoma, I can get 40% off retail. Opinions and suggestions from there as well as if they are worth it over the Rancilio are appreciated. I am trying to be in the 2k$ or less range. Grinder will be a separate purchase. I know how important it can be.


Definitely worth watching this: 

You say espresso, if milk frothing isn't important, I would suggest the Cafelat Robot. Punches well above it's weight, and you can control pressure in so many ways.
I find coffee extracted above ~8.5 bar has an overwhelming weird bitterness and aftertaste. With most machines in your price range, expect them to be at least 9 bar, which realistically means to get the most out of them, you may want to modify them. It can be a lot of fun if you are into that sort of thing though, but it will still be a fixed pressure pretty much.


----------



## Rangen

Dare I put in a plug for lever pull machines? You can decide the pressure with those. I got one because I wanted a more...elemental encounter with what espresso really means, and I have nothing to report but utter satisfaction. I wound up with an Olympia Cremina, but I probably would have gotten a much cheaper machine, called something like Levia a Dopa, but that's not it, if I didn't think that my wife would burn herself on the exposed boiler, and try to banish my espresso habit to the garage, or another state.


----------



## Dan E

e30Birdy said:


> Oh a coffee thread. I got a setup:
> 
> ECM Synchronika (with Matrix shower screen and IMS Barista Pro baskets)
> Bentwood Vertical 63 (had a Ceado e37s) I am a single doser.
> Acaia Lunar
> Bravo tamper
> Asso coffee leveler
> 
> I kind of want to swap the machine but that is only because I have kind of always been in love with the Linea Mini, but a Eagle One and a few others are real lust factor machines. Will they make a huge difference? Probably not but they look sexy.




I have the ECM Synchronika and the Ceado e37s -- awesome to see that someone else has this combo. I've been using the machine for 2 years now but have experienced some issues lately (condensation in the pressure meter on the right), and for some reason the coffee lost a lot of taste. Might need to give it a check-up soon. 

What's your reason to go away from the Ceado -- purely single dosing?


----------



## e30Birdy

Dan E said:


> I have the ECM Synchronika and the Ceado e37s -- awesome to see that someone else has this combo. I've been using the machine for 2 years now but have experienced some issues lately (condensation in the pressure meter on the right), and for some reason the coffee lost a lot of taste. Might need to give it a check-up soon.
> 
> What's your reason to go away from the Ceado -- purely single dosing?



Hmm the condensation I have never heard of. What water are you using? Desalination your machine regularly? How is you pressure is showing when using the blind basket?

I personally have a descale schedule and only use filtered water. At some point I may make my own third wave water and then basically have no scale at all due to RO water being basically dead water with nothing in there.

My e37s had red speed burrs in there which make a HUGE difference BUT to be honest it has a lot of dead room in there and just a pain especially if one single doses to get out what you put in at times, had a home made plunger setup and everything to get out what I can. I mean I could dial in a e37s in seconds on my quick set but the Bentwood is just a different world. I can swap from espresso to a v60 grind in seconds and back, it is just in a way higher league.

Starting on the e37s was good and great, and if I didn't get that I may have gotten a atom 75 or something in that league but I am bouje when it comes to coffee equipment and especially my beans.



Mingooch said:


> Looking for some opinions. I am trying to get an espresso machine. The Rancilio Silvia seems to be a great option. However, if I get something available at William Sonoma, I can get 40% off retail. Opinions and suggestions from there as well as if they are worth it over the Rancilio are appreciated. I am trying to be in the 2k$ or less range. Grinder will be a separate purchase. I know how important it can be.



You trying to spend 2k total or 2k just for the machine? Any machine can basically make coffee and most well. Always remember that your grinder is more important than the machine.

For 2k I would look at ECM Mechanika, ECM classika, Rocket Appartamento probably. Maybe even La Spaziale Dream as I think they're ready time is a lot faster. I know I hate waiting 30-45 minutes to pull a shot and that is one reason I have considered changing out my synchronika because e61 is just outdated I find and so much energy just wasted on waiting for it to heat.

Grinder is a rabbit hole. An atom 75 or niche maybe but I hear ups and downs of conical burrs for stuff that is really light roasted and I like light and medium roasts.


----------



## MarcelNL

Is there something against used ? What amount of which drinks are you looking at, are you able to service the machine?


----------



## Apocalypse

Jumping in because I'm huge on coffee.

Currently my daily is Italian style via a Moka pot. I've been a fan of ordering beans from good roasters all over. Some of my personal favorites are: Mame coffee, Brandywine, Junto, and Intelligentsia. 

Grinder is a Kinu m47 but I backed the Key grinder from Weber Works that I can't wait to receive.

Been planning to upgrade to an actual espresso machine after I get married, thinking either the Decent or the Eagle One.


----------



## deskjockey

Moka pots are under rated IMHO. You can get some awesome coffee out of a Moka pot if you use good beans and not some dead grocery store grind.

My Pasquini espresso machine threw a mean espresso though and I miss it.


----------



## tcmx3

I really like the April coffee brewer for pour over. they have a plastic version now, which is a bit pricey, but if I didnt have the ceramic version already Id be in for it.

the thing I like about pourover is I can easily make a single cup of coffee with no fuss no muss, and the main investment is just the grinder, not a machine itself.

I would always recommend folks buy their coffee from a small roaster if possible, especially one committed to as much transparency in their sourcing as possible. Id rather not drink coffee than buy from Nestle, personally.


----------



## Apocalypse

deskjockey said:


> Moka pots are under rated IMHO. You can get some awesome coffee out of a Moka pot if you use good beans and not some dead grocery store grind.
> 
> My Pasquini espresso machine threw a mean espresso though and I miss it.



Totally agree! With good freshly ground beans I prefer it strongly over pour overs.


----------



## Apocalypse

tcmx3 said:


> I really like the April coffee brewer for pour over. they have a plastic version now, which is a bit pricey, but if I didnt have the ceramic version already Id be in for it.
> 
> the thing I like about pourover is I can easily make a single cup of coffee with no fuss no muss, and the main investment is just the grinder, not a machine itself.
> 
> I would always recommend folks buy their coffee from a small roaster if possible, especially one committed to as much transparency in their sourcing as possible. Id rather not drink coffee than buy from Nestle, personally.



If you like transparent sourcing, I think Onyx is the most transparent I've come across. Their prices are a bit higher though, just a heads up.


----------



## MarcelNL

direct sourcing is about as transparent as it gets..

fresh roasted fresh ground beans or no coffee, nowadays I bring my Cafelat Robot and home roasted pre ground beans when travelling as abstinence is difficult!


----------



## MarcelNL

currently doing a repair on the Urania, there was some steam leak and I think it was the boiler lid seal that leaked, then one thing led to another...


----------



## Philip Yu

Simple, Deathwish Coffee and no clean up since I use paper filters.


----------



## LostHighway

If you'll permit me a rant, I have absolutely no time for coffee roasters who are selling their beans (excluding Geshas and other special cases) for >$22.00 per pound/~450 g; forget this 10 or 12 oz bag BS. Green coffee beans are quite stable barring really abusive storage and if a roastery can't figure out how much roasted coffee they will sell within 10 days or if their equipment won't permit small enough batches that is totally on them. At >$22.00 prices if you use 12 oz/340g of beans in a week something like a Gene Cafe or a Behmor roaster makes total economic sense and a Hottop starts to look quite feasible. You may not be able to quite equal the results of the two or three percent of the very best roasteries but IME you should be able to equal or exceed the results of the other 97 - 98%.


----------



## MarcelNL

The investment of even a Huky or Cormorant can pay off real soon at those prices if you use a bit more than a pound per week and those roasters can provide better results than a Gene or Behmor.
BUT; unless one is up to quite a bit of tinkering and reading and experimenting the results are not quite there off the bat. 

Buying great greens for anything between 8-15$/Kg is perfectly possible, with the help of some literature and use of Artisan (roast logging software) it's certainly doable to break even and enjoy great coffee with an hour or two every week as investment in time.


----------



## MarcelNL




----------



## HSC /// Knives

Simple setup for me
Moka pot


----------



## MarcelNL

aside from a steam leak in a brazed fitting the machine is functional again, now for a brazing 1 o 1 to get that fitting sealed...


----------



## tcmx3

22 dollars for a pound is like, half of what I pay and I dont feel like Im being overcharged given that almost everywhere you look natural process Ethiopian coffee is about the same price at about 25 dollars per 12 oz including shipping.

Dunno with coffee beans Im happy to just pay for a bag and call it a day. Id rather focus on the part after personally.


----------



## MarcelNL

tcmx3 said:


> 22 dollars for a pound is like, half of what I pay and I dont feel like Im being overcharged given that almost everywhere you look natural process Ethiopian coffee is about the same price at about 25 dollars per 12 oz including shipping.
> 
> Dunno with coffee beans Im happy to just pay for a bag and call it a day. Id rather focus on the part after personally.



I focus on the part after that too ;-) If f it's worth it, great!


I only like a few ethiopian coffee's as they tend to be pretty bright. BTW: processing method does not affect price much(unless the beans are anaerobically fermented, which does NICE things with taste) the Q score does; anything over 90 points and the price goes WAY UP.
My supplier currently has like 3 Ethiopians of which 2 are naturals and those come in at around 15euro/kg.

I'm currently a fan of a Nicaraguan natural , at a cost price of 9.5 euro/kilo direct trade (you lose like 10% weight during roasting)


----------



## AT5760

Seeing green beans at less than a quarter the price of what I'm paying for roasted coffee makes me wonder if it's worth it to learn to roast my own. But I don't need another rabbit hole these days.


----------



## MarcelNL

getting decent results roasting is not that hard, getting GREAT results is more of a rabbit hole!


----------



## WPerry

MarcelNL said:


> aside from a steam leak in a brazed fitting the machine is functional again, now for a brazing 1 o 1 to get that fitting sealed...
> 
> View attachment 167946



I currently have an E61 HX, but my wife has agreed to my fee, a new spring lever machine, for building and installing new kitchen cabinets. I'm eager to get a move on with the project and get my hands on either a Pro800 or Londinium Compressa. 

edit: I take it that's you, with the same handle, on h-b?


----------



## MarcelNL

yep, same old me on H-B!

Watch the height though, a lever is a tad larger than most E61 machines!
So hang them cabinets high ;-)

There are many great levers out there, vintage or new, my vote would go for vintage but the Londinium range is very nice too! (I was going back and forth between an L1 and a Bezzera Strega until I laid eyes on the Faema Faemina and HAD to have it, super machine that really excels at Ristretto's)


----------



## Rangen

AT5760 said:


> Seeing green beans at less than a quarter the price of what I'm paying for roasted coffee makes me wonder if it's worth it to learn to roast my own. But I don't need another rabbit hole these days.



It was all a rabbit hole for me, because of the fascination with great coffee. But I was getting better coffee roasting it in my hand-cranked popcorn popper than I'd ever bought roasted, by about the third roast.

Still, like kitchen knives or straight razors or sharpening stones, it would be a strange choice purely to save money. The risk of getting pulled in to the point where you are no longer saving money is very high.


----------



## Bobo530

Y’all are making me want to roast beans again.
Enjoyed roasting Indian monsoon and the flavor of mixed roast beans.
These days Blue Mountain coffee from HEB groceries and Cafe Alto Grande from Puerto Rican available now on Amazon.


----------



## WPerry

MarcelNL said:


> yep, same old me on H-B!
> 
> Watch the height though, a lever is a tad larger than most E61 machines!
> So hang them cabinets high ;-)
> 
> There are many great levers out there, vintage or new, my vote would go for vintage but the Londinium range is very nice too! (I was going back and forth between an L1 and a Bezzera Strega until I laid eyes on the Faema Faemina and HAD to have it, super machine that really excels at Ristretto's)



Yeah, no cabinets above the coffee station - just some open shelves there, so no problem with the height. Vintage seems like something that might be appealing to me, but this'll be my first lever so I just want to get in to it smoothly. 

The Strega looks interesting, but for whatever reason, I'm just not interested in hearing a pump of any sort, not to fill the boiler and not to handle pre-infusion - I want plumbed and (virtually) silent.


----------



## FoolClone

Robot© pilots, assemble!


----------



## MarcelNL

The Robot is a quite a remarkable device, it helped us avoid withdrawal during the repair as it does on vacation !

Plumbed is nice, but you will most likely need to treat the water to avoid scale (reverse osmosis).
A benefit of using a vintage pro machine is that the boiler is large (heating up takes a bit longer) so I periodically fill the boiler with my water concoction (after late RPavlis) using a vane pump.

aaaand....she is back in the room;


----------



## e30Birdy

I have thought about retiring my ECM Synchronika, e61 is just so outdated and waste of energy, and if it were a lever then I would grab a Vesuvius Evo Leva. Dave Corbey has done some videos on the machine while alpha testing it. Such a great piece of kit. I wish LM brought out something like the Linea Mini with some more pops like say flow control. I would be all over that. I know there are builds to make it do slayer shots and some have turned the lever into flow control but I would rather have LM do it and just buy it. 

I am also a nerd though that pays a ton for coffee but it is just that good and worth it to me. I have thought about roasting at home and actually have a friend 45 min away that runs a roastery and coffee shop that would probably teach me the ways a bit.


----------



## MarcelNL

An E61 is never outdated, as the group design originates from, indeed, '61 ;-) and most/many levers use the same group design that also goes back to that era.

I doubt a Lever or any other machine (except for a Decent) is more energy efficient, you could insulate your boiler if you want to improve efficiency...I did not as the heat is compensated by requiring less heating in winter.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

I'm partial to Kicking Horse's Cliffhanger Espresso, out of my Breville. It's not a very high end mix, but miles above anything out of a fast food chain or local coffee shop all the same.


----------



## deskjockey

MarcelNL said:


> An E61 is never outdated, as the group design originates from, indeed, '61 ;-) and most/many levers use the same group design that also goes back to that era.
> 
> I doubt a Lever or any other machine (except for a Decent) is more energy efficient, you could insulate your boiler if you want to improve efficiency...I did not as the heat is compensated by requiring less heating in winter.



Regarding energy efficiency, maybe in Summer the extra efficiency 'might' have some benefit but, in my case some espresso in the morning never was a problem for me considering I cook bacon and eggs in the same kitchen each morning.

Now if I upgrade to an induction cooktop and other energy focused things, it will be a long time before my espresso making energy efficiency focus approaches the excess waste heat enough to be worth the worry.


----------



## e30Birdy

MarcelNL said:


> An E61 is never outdated, as the group design originates from, indeed, '61 ;-) and most/many levers use the same group design that also goes back to that era.
> 
> I doubt a Lever or any other machine (except for a Decent) is more energy efficient, you could insulate your boiler if you want to improve efficiency...I did not as the heat is compensated by requiring less heating in winter.



A lot of companies are moving away from the E61 design. Vesuvius uses the SM design group (53mm), heats up so much faster, LM heats up way faster. E61 wastes a ton of energy heating up as the get the group to the right temp you really need a good 30-45 min. The Vesuvius heats the steam boiler in 5min so you can turn it off when not in use as well. The Eagle one uses a different group. Like I said there are so many newer more efficient machines that produce stellar coffee. Most coffee nerds agree that E61 is dated and needs a revamp.



deskjockey said:


> Regarding energy efficiency, maybe in Summer the extra efficiency 'might' have some benefit but, in my case some espresso in the morning never was a problem for me considering I cook bacon and eggs in the same kitchen each morning.
> 
> Now if I upgrade to an induction cooktop and other energy focused things, it will be a long time before my espresso making energy efficiency focus approaches the excess waste heat enough to be worth the worry.



Yeah but y'all in the states are paying peanuts for energy. We are at like 30 euro cents a kW and it is still rising. But I did upgrade to a Induction stove not due to energy saving but the glass top we had was not working right anymore and it was the logical upgrade.


----------



## deskjockey

e30Birdy said:


> Yeah but y'all in the states are paying peanuts for energy. We are at like 30 euro cents a kW and it is still rising. But I did upgrade to a Induction stove not due to energy saving but the glass top we had was not working right anymore and it was the logical upgrade.



Sunshine for my solar panels is free but, the PV array and support equipment weren't.

Taxes over there are super high on fuel, electricity, and energy in general so, I certainly see being more price sensitive and reaping benefits from more efficiency.


----------



## MarcelNL

deskjockey said:


> Taxes over there are super high on fuel, electricity, and energy in general so, I certainly see being more price sensitive and reaping benefits from more efficiency.


Super high taxes? I wish I'd be able to buy gasoline at what is it currently 4 dollars to a gallon? We're at 2.25 euro a Liter.


----------



## e30Birdy

deskjockey said:


> Sunshine for my solar panels is free but, the PV array and support equipment weren't.
> 
> Taxes over there are super high on fuel, electricity, and energy in general so, I certainly see being more price sensitive and reaping benefits from more efficiency.



I am working on PV right now, want to get 30kW on the roof as batteries when you do the calculation don't make sense. I can buy electricity I need for 30 cents, with the price on batteries right now that same kW would cost me 60 cents so I rather overproduce and sell back.



MarcelNL said:


> Super high taxes? I wish I'd be able to buy gasoline at what is it currently 4 dollars to a gallon? We're at 2.25 euro a Liter.



Yeah you all are a bit higher than us. Yesterday it was 2 euro a liter of super 95 and 1.80 for diesel.


----------



## deskjockey

e30Birdy said:


> I am working on PV right now, want to get 30kW on the roof as batteries when you do the calculation don't make sense. I can buy electricity I need for 30 cents, with the price on batteries right now that same kW would cost me 60 cents so I rather overproduce and sell back.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah you all are a bit higher than us. Yesterday it was 2 euro a liter of super 95 and 1.80 for diesel.



I bought gasoline for $3.29/gallon yesterday.

Here in Texas, I can't sell excess KW at the price I pay for them. Regarding LiFeP04 batteries, prices are up 40% currently compared to last year. 302Ah CATL LiFeP04 batteries are currently $158 each in Houston, Texas.


----------



## MarcelNL

We are moving into our new house by the end of this year (we hope) and PV panels will be part of our energy 'plan' batteries won't make sense soon unless we create a storage unit like the basalt block heat accumulator or something for the whole neigborhood...it's just not efficient, costly and the eco foorprint of current batteries is slightly LARGE.

Overproduction is one thing but selling back conditions will change over time in the Netherlands. Right now the grid is at it's maximum and selling back as private person is subject to remaining capacity on the grid, guess what; if there is no capacity at peak hours your PV panels will have to go offline....where our new house is located plans for 2 massive PV fields are being developed, so I do not plan on getting much of a chance selling back until the grid is upgraded a as those with a contract for selling power get priority (takes 5-10 years to upgrade the grid acc to the company responsible for the grid)

Luckily our espresso machine is on when those panels are expected to deliver


----------



## e30Birdy

MarcelNL said:


> We are moving into our new house by the end of this year (we hope) and PV panels will be part of our energy 'plan' batteries won't make sense soon unless we create a storage unit like the basalt block heat accumulator or something for the whole neigborhood...it's just not efficient, costly and the eco foorprint of current batteries is slightly LARGE.
> 
> Overproduction is one thing but selling back conditions will change over time in the Netherlands. Right now the grid is at it's maximum and selling back as private person is subject to remaining capacity on the grid, guess what; if there is no capacity at peak hours your PV panels will have to go offline....where our new house is located plans for 2 massive PV fields are being developed, so I do not plan on getting much of a chance selling back until the grid is upgraded a as those with a contract for selling power get priority (takes 5-10 years to upgrade the grid acc to the company responsible for the grid)
> 
> Luckily our espresso machine is on when those panels are expected to deliver



We have a German PV forum that is super awesome and does all the math to make sure you are getting the right setup and not being bent over by the dealer selling it. They did all the math on battery systems and that is not very economic because battery backup prices being so high. It's a lot better here in Germany to fill up the roof as much as you can. I think the limit is 30kw or so before it being considered commercial so 29.99 would be awesome.


----------



## HSC /// Knives

anyone know how this works?

Mauviel coffee pot


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## MarcelNL

HSC /// Knives said:


> anyone know how this works?
> 
> Mauviel coffee pot


how about it won't ?  

Making coffee in it IMO will result in horribly overextracted coffee, for Turkish the lid seems too narrow and pot to angled so boiling up it'll spill over. Perhaps it can be used for water making a pour over, but there something like a Fellow Stag works better.


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## Borealhiker

stringer said:


> I'm running a coffeeshop nowadays. All of the espresso I can drink is a nice perk.
> [/QUOTE
> omg, I want to see you on YT after 10 doubles or so doing one of those onion chopping things


----------



## deskjockey

HSC /// Knives said:


> anyone know how this works?
> 
> Mauviel coffee pot



Not much information on it. What little there is suggests it is for Turkish Coffee and possibly melting chocolate for various drinks.


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## HSC /// Knives

MarcelNL said:


> how about it won't ?
> 
> Making coffee in it IMO will result in horribly overextracted coffee, for Turkish the lid seems too narrow and pot to angled so boiling up it'll spill over. Perhaps it can be used for water making a pour over, but there something like a Fellow Stag works better.


I’m starting to think it’s more just for the table for a presentation of serving


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## avk210

Been looking into starting to roast coffee, any roasters you guys would recommend? Looking at the sr450 but open to suggestions. Thanks


----------



## LostHighway

avk210 said:


> Been looking into starting to roast coffee, any roasters you guys would recommend? Looking at the sr450 but open to suggestions. Thanks



I don't know what you're prepared to spend, how much coffee you drink, or what kind of roasts you like but I'll attempt an answer. Long ago I had an iRoast (now extinct) which was conceptually similar to the Fresh Roast design but less adjustable. I found it too noisy (difficult to hear 2nd crack if you're roasting that dark), too limited in capacity, and it roasted too quickly so it was difficult to get proper development. Capacity alone would make me choose the SR800 over the SR450. The Behmor was a huge step up from the iRoast IME. It still has significant limitations but it is much quieter and does larger roasts (you can roast a pound in the Behmor but it performs much better with a half pound or less). Behmor also has great product support. The Gene Cafe is its direct competitor. I have limited experience using that roaster but I've had a fair amount of coffee roasted with a Gene Cafe and I view it as, at best, a lateral move rather than an improvement on the Behmor. I haven't used the Kaldi nor do I know what the durability and product support is like. With the right burner with fairly precise control and a good cooling mechanism it seems like it should conceptually be capable of better roasts than the Behmor or the Gene Cafe but it is also more money when you add in the burner and cooling system (you probably can DIY a cooling tray relatively inexpensively). The Huky, Arc 800, Cormorant, and Aillio Bullet all look promising but at that point you're north of $2000. Once you figure out how to get the most out of it (tons of advice on the internet) you can get better coffee out of the Behmor than you can buy from most commercial roasters and it is inexpensive enough to pay for itself. Chasing roast improvements over a Behmor will get you into much deeper water financially.


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## MarcelNL

It all depends on your coffee consumption (warning; it will go UP) ...

Try source some middle of the road green coffee and tinker an old clean can to a cordless drill and roast beans over a (propane) camp stove to get your feet whet...it's refreshingly easy to get results that with some digging and trying are better than what most supermarkets sell.


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## MarcelNL

I just completed the service of the Urania by installing EPDM piston seals. should be good for another 3-4 years. Only maintenance required is application of a very light coat of Dow 111 every couple of months.
I now switched to distilling water as the no hardness mineral water is no lobger available, adding some Potassium Bicarb to adjust pH to keep the boiler from being eaten away.


----------



## Rangen

avk210 said:


> Been looking into starting to roast coffee, any roasters you guys would recommend? Looking at the sr450 but open to suggestions. Thanks



The SR450 appears to be an air roaster with a 4 oz capacity. That's a really low capacity. Also, consider your coffee preferences. Air roasters tend to bring out bright acidity more, drum roasters less. I prefer the drum roaster taste.

When I started, I didn't know whether it was all a whim, or whether I would stick with it, so I got a hand-cranked whirly pop. The cast metal gears wore out after maybe 25 roasts, but by then I was addicted to the joy of roasting, and the amazing coffee I was getting, so I was willing to take the next step. BTW that was actually my second "roaster;" my first was a big cast iron pan. That was a failure. Too many yellow beans and burnt beans, no matter how well I tried to keep it stirred.

Poking around the Sweet Maria's site can be very instructive. Not only are they a good source of greens, complete with roasting and flavor notes, but they have all sorts of roasting stuff, starting with a Whirly pop that looks much more durable than the one I got. I think they're big on the Behmor. They've had online classes about it. A neighbor across the street had one, and seemed quite pleased with it.


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## MarcelNL

SHould you consider roasting your own, or upping your coffee game...Home-Barista is a great source for everything you need to know (and more).

WIth just a little tinkering and ultra low investment you can get a feel for roasting, give it a go! I used the Illy can for about 2 years...








My soup can coffee roaster - Coffee Roasting - Page 2


It's an Illy can, aluminium is my guess. The rod is a steel m8 rod and is connected at the back using some 'nut' I found at the local DIY store. It accepts m8 and is likely designed as something for constructing wooden cabinets or the likes. I used the holes to rivet it to the bottom of the can...




www.home-barista.com


----------



## gentiscid

Nespresso love here. Vertuoline


----------



## MarcelNL

gentiscid said:


> Nespresso love here. Vertuoline


Nespresso was my gateway drug....until I did the math and calculated the cost per pound of coffee because I was suddenly ordering well over a hundred euros per month worth of coffee.


----------



## Justinv

So I think many roasters have solved expensive coffee bean problem by replacing coffee with wood pellets and cardboard pellets. The amount of ‘coffee’ I’ve tried from small roasters that tastes of sawdust and wet cardboard is proof to me! They usually charge more for it too!


----------



## AT5760

For those that roast their own, what would you compare it to in quality to what you can buy? I know that's an ambiguous and difficult to answer question.


----------



## gentiscid

MarcelNL said:


> Nespresso was my gateway drug....until I did the math and calculated the cost per pound of coffee because I was suddenly ordering well over a hundred euros per month worth of coffee.



And your solution?


----------



## tcmx3

Justinv said:


> So I think many roasters have solved expensive coffee bean problem by replacing coffee with wood pellets and cardboard pellets. The amount of ‘coffee’ I’ve tried from small roasters that tastes of sawdust and wet cardboard is proof to me! They usually charge more for it too!



name names.

literally never experienced this so Im curious who to avoid.


----------



## LostHighway

AT5760 said:


> For those that roast their own, what would you compare it to in quality to what you can buy? I know that's an ambiguous and difficult to answer question.



This is predicated on using a Behmor to roast for pour over, vacuum/siphon, or AeroPress or and having worked out the method.
At the bottom rung are the American old school brands like Folgers or Maxwell House, super easy to vastly surpass with home roasting.
Green Mountain, Starbucks,... are the next tier up, again easy to surpass
a *small* additional step would be brands like Peace Coffee, Equal Exchange, or more arguably Caribou, again easy to surpass
I haven't had brands like Counter Culture, Blue Bottle, Stumptown, or Intelligensia with the last seven years and all of those except maybe Counter Culture have since sold out to national or international brands like Nestle. I can't comment on their current product but circa 2012 or so these were mostly coffees you could definitely equal but maybe struggle to surpass with home roasting.
The very best local roasters, the top 5% or less, you probably can't equal. I know nothing about Omaha roasteries but personally I haven't had anything from local Minnesota or Western Wisconsin roasteries that I would consider elite level. We have some that are very good but none that I find amazing. I've had beans from a number of roasteries I've heard rave reviews for (e.g Tandem Coffee in Portland, Maine) and IMO most of them failed to deliver. It should also be noted that at the elite level your brewing process also needs to be totally dialed.


----------



## AT5760

Thanks. Omaha isn't exactly a coffee capital. There are a couple that I'll buy beans from (one a great price/quality ratio, another as a treat). Didn't like Tandem? I'm a big fan, but that is sentimentality as much as quality. My local coffee shop back in R.I. introduced me to Tandem and we'd visit the roastery every year when we went up to Portland. I'll still get beans shipped from there 3-4 times a year. 

If I could get to 90% of the quality of something like Intelligensia or Blue Bottle, I'd be a happy camper. Is home roasting better suited for a specific roast (light vs. dark)? I prefer my coffees on the lighter side.


----------



## Rangen

AT5760 said:


> If I could get to 90% of the quality of something like Intelligensia or Blue Bottle, I'd be a happy camper. Is home roasting better suited for a specific roast (light vs. dark)? I prefer my coffees on the lighter side.



Short answer: yes, lighter roasts are, in general, an easier road than darker ones for home roasting.

Long answer: It depends on the equipment. Some home roasting machines struggle to get to second crack, especially with a full load of beans. They just don't quite have the heat capacity.


----------



## LostHighway

AT5760 said:


> Thanks. Omaha isn't exactly a coffee capital. There are a couple that I'll buy beans from (one a great price/quality ratio, another as a treat). Didn't like Tandem? I'm a big fan, but that is sentimentality as much as quality. My local coffee shop back in R.I. introduced me to Tandem and we'd visit the roastery every year when we went up to Portland. I'll still get beans shipped from there 3-4 times a year.
> 
> If I could get to 90% of the quality of something like Intelligensia or Blue Bottle, I'd be a happy camper. Is home roasting better suited for a specific roast (light vs. dark)? I prefer my coffees on the lighter side.



I didn't dislike Tandem, I just thought it wasn't in that last tiny percent that I'd consider elite level.
Behmors don't do Vienna, French, or Italian roasts well (no loss as far as I'm concerned) but they can do Full City + without issue. They are good with lighter roasts. Their biggest Achilles's heel IMO is pre-warming/getting the heat ramped up quickly enough and cooling quickly enough. There are work arounds but it is legitimate limitation.


----------



## Rangen

Also: if you're roasting indoors, going to and through second crack makes a LOT more smoke.


----------



## Justinv

When I did home roasting I found it very interesting to see how the coffee taste changed over time and also how the same beans taste at different roast levels. 

That said, the cheap machines are lacking so to get good and more consistent home roast you want $$$ for a small drum roaster. However the local coffee roasters have much better drum roasters yet they make bad coffee. This makes no sense.


----------



## MarcelNL

gentiscid said:


> And your solution?


I found a used coffee shop grinder, and started with a used gaggia Classic, from there on things spiraled...
I still come out ahead, calculations showed that my roaster (used Huky 500) paid for itself after 2 years, and I convinced myself that my Urania is cost efficient.

Equalling anything shop bought is no challenge, it makes me wonder who they hire to roast supermarket coffee...
Roasting better than approx 80% of roasters is definitely possible also, the last 20% or so are the Tim Wendelboe's of the world.


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## Lars

MarcelNL said:


> Tim Wendelboe


My hero for light roasts!


----------



## MarcelNL

It's safe to say that Tim is THE hero for light roasts...I can roast a fair cup but what he does is ridiculously good.


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## Lars

MarcelNL said:


> It's safe to say that Tim is THE hero for light roasts...I can roast a fair cup but what he does is ridiculously good.


Coffee Collective are great at it as well!


----------



## MarcelNL

a while ago I had a great one from Friedhats, a 72 hour anaerobic fermented bean, funky stuff!


----------



## Rangen

MarcelNL said:


> a while ago I had a great one from Friedhats, a 72 hour anaerobic fermented bean, funky stuff!



Funky? Anaerobic means it'll be funky? Just checked the coffee closet, and I seem to have an unopened 22 lb box of funky coffee. Maybe it will be great, too, though.


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## MarcelNL

it'll depend on how long it has fermented and how the rest of the processing was done AND what the bean has in it, but it might! The one I referred to had a distinctly smelly cheese in the background, combined with winey flavors.


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## Keith Sinclair

Hawaii growers are fighting the blenders who call 10% a Hawaiian blend. Major blender is Switzerland that doesn't even grow coffee. Easy to sell many bags of blends that aren't even close for cheap. It's all about the money. But buyer is not experiencing Hawaiian coffee. 

During covid on line 100% did well people willing to pay the price. The Arabs buy it & they know good coffee. 

I have a roaster not a far drive at all I like light to medium roast for my Robot, use a net zero grinder. This Kauai works well to. Advantage to living here 17.60 for 1.5# 680g. 

Micro climate, rich volcanic soil makes damn good coffee. If I sound biased I plead guilty


----------



## deskjockey

Keith Sinclair said:


> Hawaii growers are fighting the blenders who call 10% a Hawaiian blend. Major blender is Switzerland that doesn't even grow coffee. Easy to sell many bags of blends that aren't even close for cheap. It's all about the money. But buyer is not experiencing Hawaiian coffee.
> 
> During covid on line 100% did well people willing to pay the price. The Arabs buy it & they know good coffee.
> 
> I have a roaster not a far drive at all I like light to medium roast for my Robot, use a net zero grinder. This Kauai works well to. Advantage to living here 17.60 for 1.5# 680g.
> 
> Micro climate, rich volcanic soil makes damn good coffee. If I sound biased I plead guilty
> 
> View attachment 168848



I'm not interested in a Hawaiian blend. I'd love to get some of that headed my way. Where should I go for an online order?


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Google Kauai coffee. Think I saw it on line for around 27.00 for 1.5#.


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## Greasylake

Do y'all have any recommendations for a fair quality hand grinder? Not looking to spend the big bucks, but I also don't want something flimsy that's gonna fall apart after a month. I was looking at the Knock Aergrind but it was a bit expensive for something that I hadn't really gotten any feedback for.


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## AT5760

I used a Hario Skerton hand grinder off and on for about 5 years. At under $50, it is not too expensive and the grind is consistent. Caveats: adjusting the grind is a bit of a pain and I did not use it for espresso if that is what you are looking for.


----------



## Greasylake

Forgot to mention I'll just use it for drip style coffee, not really looking to go down the espresso rabbit hole. The Hario Skerton does look like a pretty good entry point, I'll have to check that out


----------



## deskjockey

Any comments on the Porlex grinder?

I'm thinking 1zPresso JK versus a Baratza or Eureka model.


----------



## MarcelNL

Grinders - Home-Barista.com


Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.




www.home-barista.com




espresso or pour over, turkish etc etc
which grinder totally depends on what preparation of which coffee...for a very light roast espresso high ratio extraction to tase good you need a way more specialized grinder than for a comfort roast tight espresso.


----------



## scrappy

For some reason, I like Nescafé Gold Blend instant more than the good stuff. My Italian friends are utterly disgusted, but they know well enough to keep a jar for when I visit. Lol.


----------



## Ken22

deskjockey said:


> Any comments on the Porlex grinder?
> 
> I'm thinking 1zPresso JK versus a Baratza or Eureka model.


I love my 1ZPRESSO JK.


----------



## PineWood

LostHighway said:


> if a roastery can't figure out how much roasted coffee they will sell within 10 days or if their equipment won't permit small enough batches that is totally on them





Justinv said:


> So I think many roasters have solved expensive coffee bean problem by replacing coffee with wood pellets and cardboard pellets. The amount of ‘coffee’ I’ve tried from small roasters that tastes of sawdust and wet cardboard is proof to me! They usually charge more for it too!





AT5760 said:


> For those that roast their own, what would you compare it to in quality to what you can buy? I know that's an ambiguous and difficult to answer question.


Whatever equipment you use to make coffee (espresso, pourover, french press,...) I believe FRESH roasted coffee is the key.
I started roasting my own coffee about 15 years ago with very simple equipment: a breadoven and heat gun. Never felt the need to upgrade. Once you know how fresh roasted coffee tastes like you can't go back. Then you realize how much stale coffee is sold and consumed. I cannot enjoy 'cardboard coffee' anymore. For me coffee is at its peak about 2 to 10 days post roasting. More than 14 days... quality is usually gone (there are exceptions sometimes). Yes, for sure professional roasters can achieve better results, but at least I'm sure my coffee will be fresh. Ask for the roasting date! A coffee seller in my street with its own brand orders a batch from his roaster once a month.... and the expiry date on the package is one year post roast!
Mind you, you need good green coffee as well. Old green coffee will taste like paper as well. I buy my green beans twice a year from Caffenation, a small specialty roaster in Antwerp. They select very good coffee, and I can pick the best greens they have, up to now have never been disappointed. I pay about €15 per kg, but this is for coffee that would cost € 40/kg roasted.


----------



## Rangen

PineWood said:


> Whatever equipment you use to make coffee (espresso, pourover, french press,...) I believe FRESH roasted coffee is the key.
> I started roasting my own coffee about 15 years ago with very simple equipment: a breadoven and heat gun. Never felt the need to upgrade. Once you know how fresh roasted coffee tastes like you can't go back. Then you realize how much stale coffee is sold and consumed. I cannot enjoy 'cardboard coffee' anymore. For me coffee is at its peak about 2 to 10 days post roasting. More than 14 days... quality is usually gone (there are exceptions sometimes). Yes, for sure professional roasters can achieve better results, but at least I'm sure my coffee will be fresh. Ask for the roasting date! A coffee seller in my street with its own brand orders a batch from his roaster once a month.... and the expiry date on the package is one year post roast!
> Mind you, you need good green coffee as well. Old green coffee will taste like paper as well. I buy my green beans twice a year from Caffenation, a small specialty roaster in Antwerp. They select very good coffee, and I can pick the best greens they have, up to now have never been disappointed. I pay about €15 per kg, but this is for coffee that would cost € 40/kg roasted.



I agree with all of this, except the part about old green beans. I've roasted 5 year old green beans and the results were wonderful. I'm sure not every bean will go the distance, and delicate fruit flavors will recede, but my experience with older green beans has been very considerably more positive than yours.

Before I started into roasting, I was struck by a mystery. My local Peets sold their coffee with dates on the bags. From time to time, they sold small, expensive bags of special coffee, also with dates on the bags. The small, expensive bags were wonderful, and the regular coffee absolutely terrible by comparison; it seemed stale.

Finally I asked some questions. Turned out the date on the bags of small, expensive coffee was a roast date; the date on the normal bags was "the date we opened the big vacuum bag of roasted beans from the central roastery." Freshness is indeed the key, and I know of no storage method that will let you avoid that simple fact, not vacuum packing, not freezing, nothing. It has to be fresh.


----------



## tcmx3

deskjockey said:


> Any comments on the Porlex grinder?
> 
> I'm thinking 1zPresso JK versus a Baratza or Eureka model.



I like hand grinders, used a Comandante for quite a while and all, but after struggling with RSI a year ago I purchased a Baratza Forte BG.

The results are comparable, the BG I think is a little bit better in the cup for pourover.

It cost 4 times as much.

Hand grinders are a much, much cheaper way to get a great grinder, but I do ultimately believe that the best burr sets are going into electric grinders. Unless you are going to spend 4 figures on your grinder, the 1zPresso is probably going to give you better results. It's just a matter of if you are willing to put up with supplying your own power.


----------



## MarcelNL

Hand grinders get expensive real fast when they are expected to work good for espresso, the downside is that grinding is slow. Luckily for many is that a grinder that does not have to cope with espresso is affordable, and much faster.

I'm currently using a modded Mazzer Major (doserless conversion, SSP red speed burrs and a grind timer added), which is a cafe grinder with large flat burrs. Second hand pro grinders can be found a plenty and come cheap when you invest a few hours to clean them (caution, they are usually GROSS), buy a new burr set and tinker with the setup to make them home trained. Guess my grinder did set me back 300 Euros, the SSP burr set was more expensive (at it's rated grind volume they will outlive me).

Greens do suffer from aging, after a year or so the flavors dull but greens can be bagged and frozen very well. I simply buy smaller batches of greens so I do not need to worry about freezing them since I ensure I buy latest harvest.


----------



## PineWood

Rangen said:


> I agree with all of this, except the part about old green beans.


Indeed as @MarcelNL says greens do suffer from ageing. I once bought from an online vendor who presumably had a very slow stock rotation, all coffees tasted like paper and in the end I had to throw away 9 kgs of green coffee. Jeff, the head roaster at coffeenation also confirmed this to me: they use the greens usually within 6 months after the harvest, and never past one year. They do cuppings every week and he told me they can taste the paper/cardboard after one year or more. Of course a lot depends on the beans and the storage conditions, if you vacuum and freeze them, they will be stable. 
Fresh greens should be deep blueish green and smell like peas (at least if it's a wet processed coffee). Too fresh can also be a problem: greens straight from the boat can taste grassy (even after roasting them I mean).


----------



## MarcelNL

yep, that is also what I know....it's like with good olive oil...eagerly waiting for the new harvest...

I count myself lucky to have found a supplier of fresh greens that does direct trade, is selling low quantities, are reasonably priced and have a decent selection. The stellar greens go elsewhere, the availability in the US is far better and big name roasters get to buy those (and pay top dollar). It's not without reason that some roasters sell extraordinarily good roasted coffee, they are good roasters and they buy great greens in the 'specialty' category.
Try find a 85 - 90+ green....most of what I can find elsewhere is not even graded.


----------



## WPerry

WPerry said:


> I currently have an E61 HX, but my wife has agreed to my fee, a new spring lever machine, for building and installing new kitchen cabinets. I'm eager to get a move on with the project and get my hands on either a Pro800 or Londinium Compressa.
> 
> edit: I take it that's you, with the same handle, on h-b?


Well, two and a half months later...


----------



## Lars

WPerry said:


> Well, two and a half months later...
> 
> View attachment 179444


That looks like a lot of fun!


----------



## Corradobrit1

WPerry said:


> Well, two and a half months later...
> 
> View attachment 179444


Good choice. Looks to have the same manual lever head to the one installed on my Londinium L1P
So easy to pull great shots time after time with minimal fuss


----------



## blokey

My current station and some collections, please ignore the knife block.


----------



## coxhaus

I don't know where everybody else is in terms of coffee and water measurements. I have been using my Baratza Encore coffee grinder for a while now. I have settled on 17g of coffee and 270g of water. I measure each cup.


----------



## tcmx3

coxhaus said:


> I don't know where everybody else is in terms of coffee and water measurements. I have been using my Baratza Encore coffee grinder for a while now. I have settled on 17g of coffee and 270g of water. I measure each cup.



20g to 320g here.

I dont think any ratio is "right", just what you like, what ratio works well with your method/grinder, etc.

e.g. my coffee setup is pretty simple; brewista kettle, forte BG, acaia pearl, april brewer. I just experimented and took notes every cup until I got something I really liked. Im sure if I changed something up, I'd have to change my ratio too


----------



## blokey

coxhaus said:


> I don't know where everybody else is in terms of coffee and water measurements. I have been using my Baratza Encore coffee grinder for a while now. I have settled on 17g of coffee and 270g of water. I measure each cup.


I do 1:15 mostly, so 20g of coffee to 300ml of water, however I change often depends on the flavor profile of the coffee, I also find James Hoffmann's 30g to 1000ml ratio works really well for large batches.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

When we have company I'll make espresso & 
on occasion just for us. Nothing added. 

Not much for milk & sugar popular with many folks. In drip over with fresh grind beans second cup (drink two cups a day) like a little shot of booze. Italian amaretto.


----------



## Loam

Getting tired of espressos here in Italy (hoping no other italians reading now) and bought a french press and a Chemex recently, which I really like!


----------



## deskjockey

Loam said:


> Getting tired of espressos here in Italy (hoping no other italians reading now) and bought a french press and a Chemex recently, which I really like!


Variety is important. I do Moka occasionally too. I also got a Nestle Dolce Gusto which should be well supported in the EU generally.

I was turned onto Nespresso single-serves in the Netherlands. Those single serves in the EU can turn out some awesome coffee IMHO. Don't forget that the Bialetti pour-overs are Italian born and bred!


----------



## MarcelNL

just vary with the beans, a nice blend one day the other day a single origin...or go for a ristretto. Espresso never bored me.


----------



## CookInProgress

In the morning, v60 with a light roast from Square Mile to start the day, and espressos/capuccinos using my Niche and Bianca for the rest of it. That's true at least when I work from home (3 days a week), at work I'd feel to wierd to make v60, so I suffer through those Nespresso capsules.


----------



## tcmx3

CookInProgress said:


> In the morning, v60 with a light roast from Square Mile to start the day, and espressos/capuccinos using my Niche and Bianca for the rest of it. That's true at least when I work from home (3 days a week), at work I'd feel to wierd to make v60, so I suffer through those Nespresso capsules.



once I started making coffee at home, I quit drinking the stuff at work.

even when work had decent setups.


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## MarcelNL

tcmx3 said:


> once I started making coffee at home, I quit drinking the stuff at work.
> 
> even when work had decent setups.


working from home rocks!


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## CookInProgress

tcmx3 said:


> once I started making coffee at home, I quit drinking the stuff at work.
> 
> even when work had decent setups.


I sometimes buy beans, preferably fit for turkish coffee (Colombia Supremo is a good example). All you need is to grind them very fine, or ask the roaster to do so, unlike espresso, the ground coffee prepared in this method will still taste great for a few weeks. Preparation involves pouring hot water on top of the ground coffee, mixing and waiting until the grounds sink before drinking.

I might get back to it, since now they want us to come to the office twice a week. Before that, from the first outbreak around here, I worked from home 4-5 days a week.


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## tcmx3

MarcelNL said:


> working from home rocks!



well, can only speak for my own industry, but WFH has been a real win for me and my coworkers. and yes, it means I dont have to deal with office coffee. I've seen more deadlines hit in the past 2 years than any time in my career in tech.


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## Towerguy

Black Rifle Coffee here.


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## tcmx3

Towerguy said:


> Black Rifle Coffee here.



ah ok since youre a fan can you help me understand their popularity?

they charge as much as specialty roasters but as best I can most stuff is some combination of a blend, roasted very dark (the medium I tried from them was definitely dark, not medium), and they often provide minimal details about the coffee itself e.g. specific regions, how theyre making sure theyre ethically souricng, processes, elevation, species, etc. which are standard if you go look at like, a JBC, Dagonfly, etc.

their overt politics is w.ever but they seem ultra popular, theyre probably the only band I can think of that's not a supermarket brand that's as popular as Onyx so I guess Im missing something.


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## blokey

CookInProgress said:


> I sometimes buy beans, preferably fit for turkish coffee (Colombia Supremo is a good example). All you need is to grind them very fine, or ask the roaster to do so, unlike espresso, the ground coffee prepared in this method will still taste great for a few weeks. Preparation involves pouring hot water on top of the ground coffee, mixing and waiting until the grounds sink before drinking.
> 
> I might get back to it, since now they want us to come to the office twice a week. Before that, from the first outbreak around here, I worked from home 4-5 days a week.


Won't beans just lose their flavor quicker when grinded finer?


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## blokey

tcmx3 said:


> ah ok since youre a fan can you help me understand their popularity?
> 
> they charge as much as specialty roasters but as best I can most stuff is some combination of a blend, roasted very dark (the medium I tried from them was definitely dark, not medium), and they often provide minimal details about the coffee itself e.g. specific regions, how theyre making sure theyre ethically souricng, processes, elevation, species, etc. which are standard if you go look at like, a JBC, Dagonfly, etc.
> 
> their overt politics is w.ever but they seem ultra popular, theyre probably the only band I can think of that's not a supermarket brand that's as popular as Onyx so I guess Im missing something.


They are always more of a life style coffee appeal to certain market segment, kind like celebrity endorsed coffee but more political.


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## CookInProgress

blokey said:


> Won't beans just lose their flavor quicker when grinded finer?


It's not a perfect solution, but most home electric grinders aren't fit to grind so fine, though good manual ones can (starting with jx), but then it's a real hassle, physically. So this is a compromise that still allows you to get a good cup, just not a perfect one, and IMO better than those capsules. I'm not an expert, but I think the reason pre-ground can't be used with espresso, unless you use a pressure basket, isn't because the coffee is stale, but because the brew parameters change completely, and you won't get the same pressure during brewing that you're supposed to get for the grind level you've chosen, which gets you a terrible cup.


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## Tristan

Flexing a little - my new splurge. Can't ask for much more in the mornings.
A number of grinders can meet your requirements for ultra fine grinds. I am partial to fresh ground coffee, one of the more important aspects imo.
Roaster: Genecafe, Grinder: EG-1, Espresso Machine: Slayer


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## deskjockey

tcmx3 said:


> ah ok since youre a fan can you help me understand their popularity?
> 
> they charge as much as specialty roasters but as best I can most stuff is some combination of a blend, roasted very dark (the medium I tried from them was definitely dark, not medium), and they often provide minimal details about the coffee itself e.g. specific regions, how theyre making sure theyre ethically souricng, processes, elevation, species, etc. which are standard if you go look at like, a JBC, Dagonfly, etc.
> 
> their overt politics is w.ever but they seem ultra popular, theyre probably the only band I can think of that's not a supermarket brand that's as popular as Onyx so I guess Im missing something.





blokey said:


> They are always more of a life style coffee appeal to certain market segment, kind like celebrity endorsed coffee but more political.



It is mostly about a FLAG WAVING lifestyle with a strong branding aimed at veterans for marketing.
They are also a lifestyle brand for the MAGA and firearms/2nd Amendment crowd.

The coffee itself seems rather ordinary.


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## coxhaus

I went to a wine dinner in Temple Texas with my wife and I could not make it home a while back. When I went to a Starbucks the next morning it turned out to be a Black Rifle coffee shop. I guess they bought out Starbucks. I had an Expresso coffee and it seemed OK, not as good as the Expresso at WholeFoods at the domain in Austin Texas. It seems to be my favorite. I may take a picture of their machine so you guys can identify it for me.


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## Tristan

Always good to spot and identify cafe espresso machines.

When travelling or in unfamiliar settings, spotting a high end cafe machine is what I use to decide where to stop and try a coffee.
If a cafe spends a good chunk of change on top end hardware, they are more likely to value and pay for a trained barista.

You could get black gold out of a cheap lump of the counter, but more likely it will taste like dishwater


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## MarcelNL

That may work but does not have to...a shop here in town has a very nice (and very high end) Kees van der Westen 3 group lever....but nobody with any idea how to work the damn thing....my dishwasher spits out a better brew.
Another shop in town also has a KvdW, and serves acidic mouthwash. Whereas some chain called Monkeysomething at the railway station has a horrible bean (those shiny black leftovers from a crematorium) but they somehow produce a decent cup using pretty average hardware.

IME it's tossing the dice....


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## deskjockey

Sounds like my Starbucks experience with Espresso. It had a very sour and astringent taste. So bad I never went back there for an Espresso. Their Cold Coffees are okay but, a bit overpriced IMHO. The Nitro Brew was at best pretty average.

These days when I am out and about, the canned coffees from mass market brand names provides a better experience. International Delights gets the nod if I want a heavy cream/milk kick. Mean Bean provides a consistent beverage for a hot day with the "300" triple caffein French Vanilla being the drink of choice generally but, a Mean Bean is good if they are out of stock of that one are I don't want something with a ton of sweetness.


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## MarcelNL

for travelling I just pack my Robot and grind enough coffee to last for the trip, only thing I need to sort locally is hot water...


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## deskjockey

For those of you with Dolce Gusto quick serve brewers, what are some of the better pod options for me in the USA? I'm not opposed to buying overseas other than problems and costs with shipping.

Any experience with Community Coffee options out of Louisiana?


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## Tristan

MarcelNL said:


> That may work but does not have to...a shop here in town has a very nice (and very high end) Kees van der Westen 3 group lever....but nobody with any idea how to work the damn thing....my dishwasher spits out a better brew.
> Another shop in town also has a KvdW, and serves acidic mouthwash. Whereas some chain called Monkeysomething at the railway station has a horrible bean (those shiny black leftovers from a crematorium) but they somehow produce a decent cup using pretty average hardware.
> 
> IME it's tossing the dice....


You’re right it’s no guarantee. Usually top notch hardware places will also have a bunch of skinny customers dressed like clean lumberjacks discussing the floor price of digital monkey pictures.
Thats a secondary check.


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## Terryy

Coffee is a thing which I cannot live without... I try not to drink it more than 2 times a day because I had a bad sleep in that case. To make it less strong I like put some creamer inside, it helps me to enjoy my drink.


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## e30Birdy

Tristan said:


> View attachment 181759
> 
> 
> Flexing a little - my new splurge. Can't ask for much more in the mornings.
> A number of grinders can meet your requirements for ultra fine grinds. I am partial to fresh ground coffee, one of the more important aspects imo.
> Roaster: Genecafe, Grinder: EG-1, Espresso Machine: Slayer


God that Slayer is soooo nice, i been thinking about replacing my synchronika but i don't know what I want at this point. My heart would want a Slayer or GS3 but my wallet sure doesn't. Congrats on the splurge.


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## LostHighway

Two of the better local independent coffee roasters in the Minneapolis-St Paul area, Up and Spyhouse, have recently been acquired by the Kansas City based FairWave Coffee Collective (aka FairWave Holdings LLC). Supposedly both businesses will continue to operate independently. FairWave does appear to be solely specialty coffee focused which is a positive sign but I've seen so many cases of private equity buying companies, pillaging them, ruining the product, and driving the company into the ground that any optimism on my end is very, very cautious. 
Apparently more acquisitions within the Midwest are planned.


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## WPerry

LostHighway said:


> Two of the better local independent coffee roasters in the Minneapolis-St Paul area, Up and Spyhouse, have recently been acquired by the Kansas City based FairWave Coffee Collective (aka FairWave Holdings LLC). Supposedly both businesses will continue to operate independently. FairWave does appear to be solely specialty coffee focused which is a positive sign but I've seen so many cases of private equity buying companies, pillaging them, ruining the product, and driving the company into the ground that any optimism on my end is very, very cautious.
> Apparently more acquisitions within the Midwest are planned.



Oh really? I like Spyhouse and I'm leaving in a few minutes to pick up some beans at Up. Hopefully nothing changes too meaningfully. Oh, and then there's another new arrival from from the same region: ShortWave Coffee, from Columbia, MO, which has a shop under construction at 50th & Bryant. 

Side note, I hoping to try out and pick up some beans from Paradise, but I don't see that pick-up is an option, and I'd rather not pay $4 shipping when they're 15 minutes away.


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## Keith Sinclair

For you guys that roast your own, what is a good option for a smaller roaster. Was thinking might try it have outlet by my small work table in open air garage. How do you control if you want a light to medium roast. 
Also how often do you roast. Except when we have family or friends it's only two of us I drink two cups a day, she drinks such small amount twice.

Pour over coffee maker blooms grinds first we get pretty good coffee that way all Hawaiian but not always fresh takes us a while to finish a bag up to a month. 

Also how do you store extra beans for say a week.


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## WPerry

I don't roast, but IKAWA seem to be the (current) darling in that segment - 100g capacity, app-controlled smart roaster, and I think that it controls smells enough that you can run it in your home. It's about $1200, IIRC.


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## PineWood

I still work with my basic bread oven/heatgun combo, but I’ve been lusting after the Cormorant roaster:








Cormorant Roasters


Handcrafted Stainless Steel Coffee Roaster



cormorantroasters.business.site




Seems well made, a copy of the big industrial roasters just smaller.
Otherwise Hottop, Gene café and Aillio bullet all seem solid choices (in different budgets/different capacities. Have a look at Sweet Maria’s website, a wealth of information there.
I roast once a week usually, and keep the beans in a glass jar, never longer than two weeks.


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## Rangen

Keith Sinclair said:


> For you guys that roast your own, what is a good option for a smaller roaster. Was thinking might try it have outlet by my small work table in open air garage. How do you control if you want a light to medium roast.
> Also how often do you roast. Except when we have family or friends it's only two of us I drink two cups a day, she drinks such small amount twice.
> 
> Pour over coffee maker blooms grinds first we get pretty good coffee that way all Hawaiian but not always fresh takes us a while to finish a bag up to a month.
> 
> Also how do you store extra beans for say a week.



I have heard good things about the Behmor, including from a neighbor in my previous neighborhood, who loved his. I think it is one of the few appliance roasters that has a 1 lb capacity. There is also a lot of online advice about it, including from the great Sweet Maria company. I had a Hot Top before my current roaster (and after a manual whirlypop). It was great, but I do admit I had to replace the motor, which was quite a chore. And it only does 1/2 lb at a time.

I roast every two weeks, like clockwork. I have a 1 lb roaster, and roast in 400 g batches (conventional wisdom says to max out at 15% below your roaster capacity). 4 batches covers my coffee needs for two weeks, and my wife's. Coffee roasted more than two weeks ago is not a beverage I want to drink (extend that to 3 weeks for my beloved Yemen beans, which are tough and resilient).

I have found no storage for roasted beans that helps at all with that two week deadline, and I think I've tried all the possibilities.


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## Keith Sinclair

Thanks from the roasters not far just down the hill 3 miles can get medium roast Hawaiian. It is not cheap. Kauai coffee 100% Hawaiian 1.5# bag is cheaper at local Costco. Takes us over a month to go through a bag, we aren't heavy drinkers. 

Have to see how much cheaper for green beans. I can tell coffee is better when fresh roasted couple weeks later drops off some
not dramatic, still better than Starbucks.


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## WPerry

I ended up picking up some Bali (Kintamani Highlands) beans from Up Roasters. I like 'em, a lot. Berry, milk chocolate, a little bit of a floral note - really nice as a latte -


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## Nikabrik

Keith Sinclair said:


> For you guys that roast your own, what is a good option for a smaller roaster. Was thinking might try it have outlet by my small work table in open air garage. How do you control if you want a light to medium roast.
> Also how often do you roast. Except when we have family or friends it's only two of us I drink two cups a day, she drinks such small amount twice.
> 
> Pour over coffee maker blooms grinds first we get pretty good coffee that way all Hawaiian but not always fresh takes us a while to finish a bag up to a month.
> 
> Also how do you store extra beans for say a week.


I roast in a bread machine with a heat gun. I can do around 17oz batches - I previously could do larger, but my new heat gun seems to roast slower. The bread machine I've modified (bypassed control board, installed rectifier, installed toggle switch, disconnected heating element). I made a simple lid out of sheet steel that holds the heat gun but allows chaff out. Cost to get started is very low if you buy a second-hand bread machine and inexpensive heat gun.

The combination of mechanical agitation with convective flow seems to be very good.

I try follow Scott Rao's simple 4-4-4 roast profile guidelines: 4 minutes of drying, 4 minutes of roast (to first crack), 4 minutes of roast development.

Degree of roast is just sensory - listening and looking esp at the crevices in the beans, along with smell. I turn down the heat gun and crack the lid to control heat.

Bean storage for me is a quart mason jar with a slightly loose lid.

Honestly specialty coffee has overcorrected with regard to bean age after roasting, and in many cases people are drinking roasts that haven't offgassed/rested sufficiently.


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## MarcelNL

I started out trying to roast in a wok, but that resulted in too much stirring and burnt bean. Next attempt was a converted Illy can (250g) -the plastic liner removed!- on a cordless drill over a propane (Ikanawa) stove as the high heat burner in the kitchen stove did not quite put out enough heat and the smoke roasting creates is nasty inside...drilled a hole in the bottom, put in a length of 5 or 6 mm thread locked the can between two bolts. It does not get any lower tech than that. Any can will do, it was just that I found it fitting to use a coffee can to roast.
Added a few 'vanes' to improve mixing of the contents while spinning, some testing to find the RPM that prevents beans from clinging to the wall yet remain well agitated for homogenity of the roast, shooting for a 6-7 min until first crack (the beans pop pretty loud) and pour out like 90 sec. or longer later (drop temperature/color is the guide for roast level).

Everything is 'managed' (highly overstated) by senses, how high over the flame, what flame setting, how hard to squeeze the drill trigger for the RPM....no measurements whatsoever and yet still it works pretty nice if not as repeatable with measurement tools.
The learning curve is steep, I aimed to burn one, bake one roast to hit middle ground but in all honestly I have to say that it took like 10 roasts to figure out a process that produced palatable coffee and around 25 until the process was 'repeatable'.

I roasted using that contraption for a year and a half or so, until I grew tired of roasting so often since the batch size is around 150g. The next roaster was a Huky 500 I'm stilll using.


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## MarcelNL

Nikabrik said:


> I roast in a bread machine with a heat gun. I can do around 17oz batches - I previously could do larger, but my new heat gun seems to roast slower. The bread machine I've modified (bypassed control board, installed rectifier, installed toggle switch, disconnected heating element). I made a simple lid out of sheet steel that holds the heat gun but allows chaff out. Cost to get started is very low if you buy a second-hand bread machine and inexpensive heat gun.
> 
> The combination of mechanical agitation with convective flow seems to be very good.
> 
> I try follow Scott Rao's simple 4-4-4 roast profile guidelines: 4 minutes of drying, 4 minutes of roast (to first crack), 4 minutes of roast development.
> 
> Degree of roast is just sensory - listening and looking esp at the crevices in the beans, along with smell. I turn down the heat gun and crack the lid to control heat.
> 
> Bean storage for me is a quart mason jar with a slightly loose lid.
> 
> Honestly specialty coffee has overcorrected with regard to bean age after roasting, and in many cases people are drinking roasts that haven't offgassed/rested sufficiently.


i'm in between Rao and freestyle...I try to get to dry end FAST as in 3-4 min, get to first crack at around 7 min and drop 90 sec later at 207-208'C 
regardless of that, home roasting is FUN, and easy enough when you are motivated to try and taste!


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## tcmx3

I recently picked up a Fellow Ode, you can order them directly from Fellow with the SSP multi-purpose burrs. I took advantage of a sale they ran on the machine and got one even though I have a Forte BG, mostly because there's a lot of folks making 64mm burrs and it is a cheap way to have some fun. And the MP burrs seemed like exactly what I was looking for (I like a lot of acidity). I'm pretty blown away by the quality of the cups. It's not built near as well as the Forte and lacks some of the conveniences but the grind quality is really ludicrous for the price.


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