# Respected Honyaki?



## SuperSharp (Oct 29, 2016)

I've recently gotten the itch to try a quality honyaki blade. Who are some of the most respected/recommended makers? I'm looking for a 210mm gyuto. Searching online led me to videos of a Konosuke Aogami Honyaki on YouTube that looked nice, but it doesn't appear like any are available. I normally lean towards lasers, but am open to trying about anything if the craftsmanship is there.


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## YG420 (Oct 29, 2016)

I have a kono b2 240 honyaki and I cant put that thing down. Cuts like a dream, thinner than I'm used to (have several katos) but feels nice and solid and holds its edge better than any of my other knives i own/ed. Needs a bit more effort to sharpen, but you won't need to sharpen often. I heard the tesshu series is the same smith but i cant confirm. If you have a chance to get a kono honyaki i highly recommend it.


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## Badgertooth (Oct 29, 2016)

Watanabe. Not that I can speak for their quality but when I do get one made, he'll make it for me. Mizuno has also piqued my interest


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## Kristoff (Oct 29, 2016)

I only have one honyaki and that's the mizuno DX white steel. Even with my sub standard sharpening skills. It gets really sharp, can't imagine how sharp it can actually be if it was Dave or Jon of JKI to give it some TLC. It can take a pounding. Went thru kilos and kilos of prep a day including boat loads of tomatoes, pumpkins and fruits. Still sharp enough for meat fabrication during dinner service. Only complaint that I have is that the 240mm came in at 228mm. 

I am still waiting on the availability of the gesshin ittetsu to be available so I can try another honyaki.


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## DamageInc (Oct 29, 2016)

I've read good things about Sukenari's Honyaki knives. They are relatively available too.


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## Jacob_x (Oct 29, 2016)

For knifes that are realistically available, Watanabe, Mizuno, Tesshu (Shiraki) from aframes, and Sukenari seem your best bets. The kikuichichimoji honyaki is something I'd like to know more about as couldn't find much. A bit cheaper are offerings from Hiromoto and the singatirin blades Maksim had a while ago, which someone might have and be willing to part with. Konos, being Konos, are a bit harder to find.
For me it was a decision between Watanabe and Mizuno. Currently saving my pennies for the latter :biggrin:


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## Jacob_x (Oct 29, 2016)

Kristoff, may I ask if you have one of the older, thicker models, or the newer, thinner ones? Someone expressed to me they found their newer one a little *too* thin, and I wonder how you find yours?
That in itself lends to the benefit of dealing with Watanabe, and the possibility of customisation!


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## Von blewitt (Oct 29, 2016)

Gesshin ittetsu


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## Jacob_x (Oct 29, 2016)

Who is the ittetsu honyaki smith? Or is this withheld? Seem hard to get hold of too!


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## Von blewitt (Oct 29, 2016)

I don't know who the smith is, there's a western handled ironwood 270 on JKI that haunts me.


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## JBroida (Oct 29, 2016)

Jacob_x said:


> Who is the ittetsu honyaki smith? Or is this withheld? Seem hard to get hold of too!



Ikeda-san (the one in sakai... not the echizen one)

*there are a couple of ikeda-san's in sakai, but only one who is well respected for honyaki knives


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## Godslayer (Oct 29, 2016)

JBroida said:


> Ikeda-san (the one in sakai... not the echizen one)
> 
> *there are a couple of ikeda-san's in sakai, but only one who is well respected for honyaki knives



I have two honyakis on order from him, the guys a legend.


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## Jacob_x (Oct 29, 2016)

Thanks for the info guys. If I'm correct this is Yoshikazu Ikeda? Very very well regarded, have never had the chance to try any of his or his brothers knives. Intrigued...


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## JBroida (Oct 29, 2016)

yes


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## Kristoff (Oct 29, 2016)

Jacob_x said:


> Kristoff, may I ask if you have one of the older, thicker models, or the newer, thinner ones? Someone expressed to me they found their newer one a little *too* thin, and I wonder how you find yours?
> That in itself lends to the benefit of dealing with Watanabe, and the possibility of customisation!



I am quite sure mine is the thicker one. I got it about 5 years ago and those honyakis were only in the market for a short while prior. I don't think it's too thick and I like the heft and weight of it. Had a look at it just now but definitely doesn't look thin to me. 

I only have a kiritsuki shaped gyuto from watanabe in AS steel. It was a special group buy put together 6 years ago. Wasn't great until it got a TLC from maxim. He thinned out the whole blade and re did the edge for me. After that it's a beast of a knife. But first experience from that knife never made me persue anymore of his knives but I read a lot of good things about him still 

Haven't handled a gesshin ittetsu but I reckon you wait for it. From what Jon told me about those honyakis, I am sure the wait is worthwhile and you won't regret it.


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## zitangy (Oct 29, 2016)

I do quite like my Hiromoto 240 Honyaki white 2 steel, western handle. This one clocks in abt 250grams

Comes with no wave like Hamon line ..but just a straight line that you see on the rear (ura) side of single bevel knives.

Very easy to touch up and after 2 sharpenings m edge has stabilized and very easy to maintain the edge. since then has been mirror polished, though I didnt remove all the factory grit lines, Handle has been epoxied ( thin coat) to prevent rust on the tang,

I do quite like the western handle as the blade does transfer some of the feel to the tang that is exposed on the handle as opposed to the Wa handle. 

It has been a fun knife for me and a well used knife and I do not baby it... though I remove the patina stains once in a while. Mirror polish does seem to reduce stains..

HV fun... D


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## supersayan3 (Oct 29, 2016)

From the ones that I own:
Mizuno Honyaki white2 , 24cm: very beautiful knife, large wide blade, very very thin over the edge(combined with the tall blade means you will not have to thin for quite some time),Harmon and engraving does not come any more as you see them on the photos of JCK- those were old versions, Mizuno changed them- not as good as the old one, the new one, still very nice though), you have to pay the octagon handle some few extra-I did, sharpens like butter, becomes extremely sharp in no time, on the down side-my most chippy knife. I can't even realize when and how it chips, thought it does not affect the cutting. Maybe it is just mine.
Mirror polish is on good, but not perfect level, less than a Sukenari or a Kobosuke(indont own Konosuke-but from the photos they are obviously perfect mirror polished.
Cutting edge is less than 24cm. Has a little belly on the heel- not straight flat from middle of the blade towards the end of the heel.
Sukenari gyuto 21cm, white 1: The only Honyakis made from White 1, some of the cheapest, according to everyone that has seen my knives, the most beautiful ones. 
The most perfect mirror polished Honyaki I own.
Not all Sukenari batches have the same mirror polish. Can vary from perfect to Mizuno level.
Not chippy. Sharpens like butter(all Honyakis do).
Pretty tall for a 21cm knife. Cutting edge is less than 21 cm. Very thin over the edge, will last for a long time without thinning. Octagon handle.
It is very odd, that it does not discolor red onion(mine at least.
Has the most perfect ham on, the master is a real artisan, Osaka style, with some extra dots.
All Sukenaris are very cheap buy for what they are.


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## supersayan3 (Oct 29, 2016)

Sukenari 24cm white1: normal tall for a 24cm knife, the rest as above.
This particular one, happened to come with a very beautiful buffalo bolster.
The first one that I received I returned it, it was Mizuno mirror polish level. Very flat(I love it)

Sukenari 27cm white1: 
Short knife for a 27cm blade. Might be identical almost to Masamoto Ks 24cm. Sukenaru father, used to work for Masamoto. Haven't used it yet. The one of my two drawer queens, Hiromotos wa as 30 cm being the other.


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## supersayan3 (Oct 29, 2016)

Hiromoto Honyaki 24cm, metal bolster white2:
To me(being me), this knife has it all: a western Honyaki. Perfect balance, metal bolster, all beautiful, cones half mirror polished, I mirror polished it myself easily with an IKEA towel and diamond paste and became even more beautiful. Responds as a honyaki( equally with Sukenari and Mizuno), is a little thicker over the edge compared to Mizuno and Sukenari, but in action no difference, sharpens like butter and becomes hair splitting sharp on no time( as with all Honyakis). Has the most artisan spinal tapering. Not chippy, equally hard with the previous that I mentioned.
I have 2 of it, I want 2 more( and that's how crazy I am [emoji4][emoji6])
Cutting edge 24cm exactly, 240 gr. 
Perfect weight for a western knife. 

Hiromoto Honyaki white 2, rosewood handle, 24cm:
This one is not the batch with the above. Cutting edge 24cm, exactly same profile with the above, blade heavy, it weights only 214gr, feels like a sinner cabrio edition of the above.
I happened to get the very last one.
Sharpens and becomes sharp as all the above, but this one is softer. Feels softer, can take lots of abuse, no chippy at all, still when cutting you feel the Honyaki response.
Not available any more, was the Best Buy for the money.
Has a little less extra work at all details, compared to the above, that's why the price range was 190$ less.
Cutting edge exactly 24cm, my favorite knife to filter fishes between 5-25 kg, together with my Masahiro virgin carbon metal bolster gyuto 24cm. Whatever bone comes in your way has no luck.


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## supersayan3 (Oct 29, 2016)

Ichimonji Honyaki 24cm, white2: my unicorn. I have to get one, have send more than 5 mails to them, no reply.
Western style as well, I wish it will be 24cm cutting edge and perfectly balanced. As far as I can see from the photos, its metal bolster is not 1 piece, but pressed parts left and right of the blade.

If you want top aesthetics, go Sukenari or Mizuno.
Sukenari must be a much better choice than a Konosuke.
Sukenari makes water quenching, higher hardening than his white 1 Honyakis- Aogami Super cladded. I received it yesterday, had no time to use it, feels so sturdy, I will request him to make an Aogami Super Honyaki line.

If you want performance in a pro kitchen and you like perfect balance, metal bolster, don't think. About anything else, Hiromoto white 2 metal bolster is without equal.
Half price than the rest, lesser aesthetics, better performance.

If you want looks, performance and a good buy for the money, Sukenari.

Be careful though, that the 21cm is tall, the 24cm is medium tall and the 27cm is short.
Overall, Sukenari and Hiromoto were good people, philanthropists, honest


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## panda (Oct 29, 2016)

would love to hear about the sukenari 270 (profile and grind), is it a drawer queen of yours because it's too long for you? since youve tried the shorter one, what is the w#1 steel like in comparison to mizuno w#2?


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## supersayan3 (Oct 29, 2016)

No big difference, they both feel very hard, very unique Honyaki response( that's why they are my favourites, and as some metaphysics support that the crystals are alive, I support Honyakis are alive(I am not crazy, Honyakis have crazy response [emoji6][emoji16][emoji16][emoji1][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23])), but my Mizuno is very chippy. 
Maybe it is only mine, that particular piece.

Also Mizuno and Sukenari come with basic edge.
Hiromoto comes sharp

If Sukenari believes in the Money God Religion, very soon they will go high up.
But I think that Sukenari, like Hiromoto, are lovers and believers and no money bitches


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## supersayan3 (Oct 29, 2016)

It is a drawer queen, because its time hasn't arrived yet. Profile is very French, I suspect it is almost identical to Masahiro KS, with the Sukenari having a lesser tip. If I remember correct, cutting edge must be 25,5cm+ some few mm extra.
Since I like western Japanese knives, and not pure blooded Japanese knives(which are the zenith of the Japanese knife making), I would had expected it to be taller.
I will have to check all the grinds later, and re report.
Sorry for mistakes on my comments, I write in a hurry, from a phone, and application here does not let me correct/edit the whole comment, but just the first 4-5 lines


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## Jacob_x (Oct 29, 2016)

Worst mirror polish, too thin behind the edge, chippy... It sounds like you want to sell me your mizuno :idea:


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## Jacob_x (Oct 29, 2016)

Worst mirror polish, too thin behind the edge, chippy... It sounds like you want to sell me your mizuno :idea:


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## supersayan3 (Oct 29, 2016)

Hahahaa, I don't. It's a blast of a knife, when you first touch it, you can tell only one thing: wow!!!

Too thin behind the edge is a very good feature.
I suspect that only mine is so chippy. Don't know about the technicalities, maybe not their average heat treatment?
I highly recommend it, as I think that just mine is so chippy. I haven't read someone else reporting this, very beautiful, but got the price range, and equally high aesthetics, Sukenari is a better buy


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## Jacob_x (Oct 29, 2016)

Supersayan, could you possibly post a choil shot of the miz, and maybe the others, if you have time? I would be very interested to see. Thanks for all the info too!


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## supersayan3 (Oct 29, 2016)

I can't. I have to borrow camera and learn how to use it. I am ashamed, but I don't have a camera yet.
I have only an iPad Air 1, worthless camera, unless under direct sunlight, and an old iPhone 5s with a decent camera, but the last 6-12 months, I don't remember, the camera has a software problem and is not working. Apple to fix it, needs 10 working days, and they are always out of replacement phones, so after 3-4 attempts to give it for service, it stayed with me without camera. But you can look the photos of the Mizuno Honyaki santoku at the buy sell trade( hope the new owner enjoys it, very beautiful at very good price),is similar, thinner than what you will understand from the photo, and Sukenari is equally thin. Masterpieces.
Also on the santoku photos, you can see the not perfect mirror polish.
It is mirror polished, but they could had put it on finer wheel. They stop it at that range, to save some labor. 
The fact that it is not perfect, doesn't mean that it is not extremely satisfactory


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## aboynamedsuita (Oct 29, 2016)

My iPhone 5s is also a pos sometimes I get these bizarre kaleidoscope glitches happening in the corner of the screen for no reason.

As for respected honyaki, I owned the sukenari 240 (sukenari measures from machi, so about 10-15mm less) and really liked it. No problems to use on a hinoki board for me in terms of chippage. Top notch f&f with polished choil and all, only quibble for me is I'd prefer to have an engraved kanji instead of the stamped looking one, although jck versions have (or had) additional engraved kanji Pure Japanese Carbon Steel "&#32020;&#26085;&#26412;&#37628;". I sold the 240 because it seems a bit small for the custom handle I had, but liked it enough I wanted the 270. I was on the jck waitlist starting in January with an ETA of mid-February. Unfortunately there were some delays of several months and by then I was into katos so decided to pass for the time being, as the custom handle is a good fit for a 240 Kato workhorse gyuto, and I also have several other honyaki.

My others are Watanabe mirror polished blue honyaki 240 gyuto, 270 suji, 150 petty, and 330 lefty kensaki Yanagi (not pictured). Here are the double bevels at JKI (I wanted Jon to see if he could make them more lefty friendly).






These procurements were predicated by the positive reviews I've heard of Watanabe honyaki both here and at zknives: http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/ktknv/watanabe/watanabehkgy270.shtml

F&f isn't as good as the sukenari, but I was able to polish the grind marks out of the choil (as shown by a before&after of suji and gyuto)


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## Kippington (Oct 30, 2016)

Really nice job on that choil Tj!


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## supersayan3 (Oct 30, 2016)

Tjangula make comments about your Honyakis please

All of my Sukenari Honyakis have engravings, bit then again they are all from JCK.
And concerning the profiles, my Honyaki 24cm is flatter and 1-2mm shorter than the Sukenari AS 24cm, that has a slight curve on the heel


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## Kristoff (Oct 30, 2016)

Oh wow you guys have some awesomely sweet as honyakis. I am trying so hard not to get the hiromoto honyaki but don't want to miss out on the gesshin ittetsu. Need more cash for sure!


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## supersayan3 (Oct 30, 2016)

There is no AS Honyaki. 
I repeat about the Hiromoto: if you want a Honyaki that looks like the Mizuno, Sukenari, konosuke, you will be disappointed by the looks of Hiromoto. I personally think it is very beautiful, ( my favorite knife, I state it one more time [emoji4]) and it is the Honyaki that made me seek more Honyakis.
From performance, is second to none(ok might share the gold medal with other other Honyakis [emoji4])


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## aboynamedsuita (Oct 30, 2016)

supersayan3 said:


> Tjangula make comments about your Honyakis please



I'll let you know shortly, they should be coming back before the holidays. I got the first of them over 1.5 years ago and have been working towards rehandles for some time. I'm probably going to downgrade my initial plans for the Watanabe knives as it's taking really long and I am wanting to start using them.


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## JBroida (Oct 30, 2016)

tjangula said:


> I'll let you know shortly, they should be coming back before the holidays. I got the first of them over 1.5 years ago and have been working towards rehandles for some time. I'm probably going to downgrade my initial plans for the Watanabe knives as it's taking really long and I am wanting to start using them.



Yeah... ran out of time to get them back to you before coming back from Japan... getting on a plane back to LA in just a few hours though


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## aboynamedsuita (Oct 30, 2016)

JBroida said:


> Yeah... ran out of time to get them back to you before coming back from Japan... getting on a plane back to LA in just a few hours though



No worries Jon, the handle situation is still outstanding with others and has for some time, so it's not a problem that they're still there. Once you're back we can touch base and then decide how to proceed.


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## supersayan3 (Oct 30, 2016)

tjangula said:


> I'll let you know shortly, they should be coming back before the holidays. I got the first of them over 1.5 years ago and have been working towards rehandles for some time. I'm probably going to downgrade my initial plans for the Watanabe knives as it's taking really long and I am wanting to start using them.



Happy cooking time you will have during Christmas [emoji111]&#65039;


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## aboynamedsuita (Oct 30, 2016)

One comment I can make about the Watanabe honyaki right now is that the hamon is not as figured as some others they're more of a suguha or notare style hamon. It's also not as long, but isn't short like a hiromoto either. Here are the double bevels after some uchigumori powder applied with a cloth and water:


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## supersayan3 (Oct 30, 2016)

Suguha or Notare? Sounds Japanese to me! Can you please educate me?

Beautiful knives!!!

Hiromoto, has kind of double hamon. The more vivid part is diagonal and short, and on top of that is a longer wavy faded hamon, I suppose almost as long as the watanabe's


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## aboynamedsuita (Oct 30, 2016)

supersayan3 said:


> Suguha or Notare? Sounds Japanese to me! Can you please educate me?
> 
> Beautiful knives!!!
> 
> Hiromoto, has kind of double hamon. The more vivid part is diagonal and short, and on top of that is a longer wavy faded hamon, I suppose almost as long as the watanabe's



This picture was sent to me by a fellow member and is what I was thinking when I made the comment:


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## supersayan3 (Oct 30, 2016)

These are the names of the hamon patterns?!!!

Thank you very much Tjangula!!!

God bless the Kitchen Knife Forums!


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## supersayan3 (Nov 1, 2016)

Here I have to clarify, from a previous post in this thread, where I said that Hiromoto in performance is second to none, that all of my honyakis feel equally top sharp, equally top hard( with the Hiromoto rosewood being softer) and all sharpen equally easy.
But when I had gotten my first Hiromoto metal bolster, many people criticized that Master Nagao was not a Honyaki maker, and his Honyaki was not good.
This is not the case. It is equally good with Mizuno and Sukenari.
It has a lesser finish and that's why it has a lesser price.
But i am a western kitchen pro and in action it suits me better than the rest


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## zitangy (Nov 1, 2016)

I do believe that the grinds on the 2 Hiromoto Honyakis... (Wood handle ( reddish/ brown color and the western handle black color)) are different with the latter with a more convex grind on the right side adn the left side... very minimal convex grind.

Finish... I can always try to improve on the finish adn it has been a long WIP. Eventually I will get there.

rgds
d


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## supersayan3 (Nov 1, 2016)

If you want to mirror polish it, I did 2 days ago the rose wood handle, start with a 2.5 micron diamond paste and go to finer pastes. 2.5 is very quick for starters, 3 min each side will show results. Of course it will never be the mirror finish Konosuke or Sukenari level


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## Nemo (Jan 10, 2017)

@Supersayan and TJ. What sort of grinds do the knives have? Are they all workhorses? Much difference between them in the grind?


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## Ruso (Jan 12, 2017)

Any input on Hide Honyaki?


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## supersayan3 (Jan 14, 2017)

Nemo, if by workhorse grind you mean a curvy convex like probably the Kato( as far as I can tell/understand from the photos), none of them is like it.
So, I suppose they will be easier to maintain.
Yet, all of them are potential workhorses.
Actually, they are workhorses, all of them, but not super thick, or super hefty.
Even Hiromoto, the thinnest, is a fantastic workhorse.
I don't own any Munetoshi, Watanabe, Toyama etc. so I can't tell.
The only knife that I own that can be compared to Kato(from photos), my thicker heftier knife, yet, very thin over the edge for a pretty long way up, is the Ryusen Tsushime, which is not a Honyaki, but very sturdy.
It had been my 3rd Japanese knife, some years ago, and I had requested a workhorse from Koki, back then, and he had suggested to me that knife, because of heft, Micarta handle etc.( the last years can be found on eBay)


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## Nemo (Jan 14, 2017)

Thanks SS3. So all the ones you have are more like middleweights but reasonably thin behind the edge?

In another thread, the Mizuno Honyaki was described as a great workhorse, but I'm not sure if it was meant in the way that Kato is a workhorse or the way that you describe.


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## panda (Jan 14, 2017)

miz honyaki fat spine thin edge


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## Nemo (Jan 14, 2017)

panda said:


> miz honyaki fat spine thin edge



In a good way?


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## panda (Jan 14, 2017)

yes, absolutely


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## Nemo (Jan 14, 2017)

I assumed so. I'm beginning to really appreciare that style of grind.


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## supersayan3 (Jan 14, 2017)

Mizuno and Sukenari, crazy thin over the edge, 
For a long way up,
some spine(middle let's say).
Mizuno is much wider in the profile surface of the Sukenari, has heft.
But neither has the Kato grind.
Mizuno is very blade heavy, don't know how it might compare to a Kato.
Practically, they are both workhorses, just as the Hiromotos(thinner spines, thicker over the edge)


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## KrutoyNozh (Jan 14, 2017)

Ruso said:


> Any input on Hide Honyaki?



Think Kate Beckinsale on the beach . . . only as a knife in your kitchen. &#128578;


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## khashy (Feb 10, 2017)

supersayan3 said:


> Ichimonji Honyaki 24cm, white2: my unicorn. I have to get one, have send more than 5 mails to them, no reply.
> Western style as well, I wish it will be 24cm cutting edge and perfectly balanced. As far as I can see from the photos, its metal bolster is not 1 piece, but pressed parts left and right of the blade.
> 
> If you want top aesthetics, go Sukenari or Mizuno.
> ...



Hey Ss3, do you know who the blacksmith is that makes the Ichomonji honyaki gyuto?


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## jklip13 (Feb 10, 2017)

In my experience Sukenari Honyaki are not even close to the hobyaki that Konosuke sell in the Fujiyama line


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## jklip13 (Feb 10, 2017)

In terms of edge holding and cutting performance


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## supersayan3 (Feb 10, 2017)

No, I don't know who is the Ichimonji blacksmith.

Jklip 13, can you please give a more detailed performance description?


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## khashy (Feb 10, 2017)

supersayan3 said:


> No, I don't know who is the Ichimonji blacksmith.
> 
> Jklip 13, can you please give a more detailed performance description?



I was just wondering why Ichimonji in particular was your unicorn knife?


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## jklip13 (Feb 10, 2017)

supersayan3 said:


> No, I don't know who is the Ichimonji blacksmith.
> 
> Jklip 13, can you please give a more detailed performance description?



Absolutely, sorry to be so opinionated without backing it up. 
I found the Sukenari honyaki to be roughly twice as thick right at the edge. Which, for me, required a lot more force when cutting with the Sukenari. In my opinion the polishing and finishing of the Konosuke is way better, much more effort it seems is put into the little details that don't effect performance. I also found the white 2 Fujiyama Honyaki by Konosuke had noticeably better edge holding. These are just my opinions based on just one of each knife though


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## Omega (Feb 10, 2017)

@jklip have you had a chance to compare Tatsuo or Yoshikazu Ikeda to Konosuke?

Also would you mind commenting on the differences between Konosuke's Honyaki offerings? I thought they had two separate pairs working on them; the fujiyama smith and sharpener, and then a separate smith and sharpener for the White #2.


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 10, 2017)

jklip13 said:


> I also found the white 2 Fujiyama Honyaki by Konosuke had noticeably better edge holding.



Do you think that may be in part due to the white #1 steel in sukenari


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## jklip13 (Feb 10, 2017)

Omega said:


> @jklip have you had a chance to compare Tatsuo or Yoshikazu Ikeda to Konosuke?
> 
> Also would you mind commenting on the differences between Konosuke's Honyaki offerings? I thought they had two separate pairs working on them; the fujiyama smith and sharpener, and then a separate smith and sharpener for the White #2.



Both of the Ikedas make/made amazing honyaki. I've only used Yanagiba from them so it's kind of hard to compare, I think they would right up at the very top of their craft though compared to almost anyone else. 
I'm not %100 on who all the craftsmen are for Konosuke, I would rank the various honyaki as follows: in third place the white 2 and 3 wide beveled fully mirror polished honyaki. In second place the blue steel wide beveled honyaki with the coarse finish on the wide bevels. On first place the white #2 fully convex/flat ground honyaki with the visible folds in the steel. Sorry I don't know the proper names for the lines of knives.


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## Oh_Toro (Feb 11, 2017)

jklip13 said:


> I think they would right up at the very top of their craft though compared to almost anyone else...



As far as heat treatment, shaping, or fit and finish? (Or some combination of all of the above?)

Was there a discernible difference between the two Ikedas?


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## jklip13 (Feb 11, 2017)

Oh_Toro said:


> As far as heat treatment, shaping, or fit and finish? (Or some combination of all of the above?)
> 
> Was there a discernible difference between the two Ikedas?



Oh boy, that one is ok hard for me to tell. So far I haven't found any knives that they both made in the same model for the same retailer so I can't tell at all. Each one of their dealers has different specs so they are always a little different. Both are amazing


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## jklip13 (Feb 11, 2017)

Oh_Toro said:


> As far as heat treatment, shaping, or fit and finish? (Or some combination of all of the above?)
> 
> Was there a discernible difference between the two Ikedas?



Fit/finish and shaping have a lot more to do with the sharpener, so whoever the retailer chooses to send the forged knives too will be in charge of that. 
Heat treatment, straightness and aesthetics are really really really good


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 11, 2017)

Omega said:


> @jklip have you had a chance to compare Tatsuo or Yoshikazu Ikeda to Konosuke?
> 
> Also would you mind commenting on the differences between Konosuke's Honyaki offerings? I thought they had two separate pairs working on them; the fujiyama smith and sharpener, and then a separate smith and sharpener for the White #2.



The elder ikeada forged the kono white 2 blades.


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## Omega (Feb 11, 2017)

Chicagohawkie said:


> The elder ikeada forged the kono white 2 blades.



Oh interesting. I've been looking everywhere for confirmation for that... where were you finally able to dig it up?


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## Oh_Toro (Feb 12, 2017)

jklip13 said:


> Fit/finish and shaping have a lot more to do with the sharpener, so whoever the retailer chooses to send the forged knives too will be in charge of that.
> Heat treatment, straightness and aesthetics are really really really good



Good to know. What type of knife/knives do you have from Tatsuo?


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## jklip13 (Feb 12, 2017)

Chicagohawkie said:


> The elder ikeada forged the kono white 2 blades.


 Uh I'm not sure this is correct, are you referring to the double beveled gyuto with the visible folds in the steel? I am almost certain it's someone else. Ikeda might have made the single beveled honyaki that Konosuke sells, I have no info on those though


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## supersayan3 (Feb 12, 2017)

Thank you for the answer. 

I think it is interesting that you find the Sukenari thick over the edge. I have 3, and they have as a thin grind as the Mizuno, which I find incredibly thin, but I have never seen a Konosuke.

Concerning the mirror polish, the Sukenari doesn't have standard quality. It might be between Mizuno and Konosuke(telling by photos) Even the two sides of the same blade might be different


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 12, 2017)

Omega said:


> Oh interesting. I've been looking everywhere for confirmation for that... where were you finally able to dig it up?



There is a video of his work that displays his hamon work - It was very distinctive and unique. coincidentally right around his passing the kono white 2 Honyakis were never to be seen again.


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 12, 2017)

jklip13 said:


> Uh I'm not sure this is correct, are you referring to the double beveled gyuto with the visible folds in the steel? I am almost certain it's someone else. Ikeda might have made the single beveled honyaki that Konosuke sells, I have no info on those though



Ok, after he passed. There were no more kono Honyaki white 2s seen again. I looked into ordering one and was told the smith had passed. Show me another working smith that used that distinctive sharks tooth hamon?


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## JBroida (Feb 12, 2017)

i know 2 that passed away other than him in that same timeframe

and also one more that just had to stop making honyaki around that time due to being too busy with other work... i've heard people say the blacksmith passed away when i know for a fact he was the blacksmith of the knives in question in that conversation... he's still alive and well. A lot gets lost in trasnlation and because people dont want to share so much info in sakai.


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 12, 2017)

JBroida said:


> i know 2 that passed away other than him in that same timeframe
> 
> and also one more that just had to stop making honyaki around that time due to being too busy with other work... i've heard people say the blacksmith passed away when i know for a fact he was the blacksmith of the knives in question in that conversation... he's still alive and well. A lot gets lost in trasnlation and because people dont want to share so much info in sakai.



Interesting? The largest distributor and the owner of the said brand rejected my order due to the smiths passing. Guess will see if they emerge again..... my guess is well.........


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## Omega (Feb 13, 2017)

JBroida said:


> i know 2 that passed away other than him in that same timeframe
> 
> and also one more that just had to stop making honyaki around that time due to being too busy with other work... i've heard people say the blacksmith passed away when i know for a fact he was the blacksmith of the knives in question in that conversation... he's still alive and well. A lot gets lost in trasnlation and because people dont want to share so much info in sakai.



The smith that stopped making honyaki because of being too busy with other work- has there been any expression that this is a temporary stop? That he might resume again in the future? 

Also, if a person were interested in the Konosuke W#2 honyakis, would you have a recommendation for the most similar cutting experience?


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## jklip13 (Feb 13, 2017)

That blacksmith does sell under his own name, and many others as well. But he doesn't produce honyaki at all anymore, so anything for sale would be from a couple years ago. There are a whole bunch for sale in Nishiki market in Kyoto.


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 13, 2017)

jklip13 said:


> That blacksmith does sell under his own name, and many others as well. But he doesn't produce honyaki at all anymore, so anything for sale would be from a couple years ago. There are a whole bunch for sale in Nishiki market in Kyoto.


Considering the demand expressed here for these knives, you would think they would be brought to market. I'll believe it when I see it.


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## zitangy (Feb 13, 2017)

Chicagohawkie said:


> There is a video of his work that displays his hamon work - It was very distinctive and unique. coincidentally right around his passing the kono white 2 Honyakis were never to be seen again.




Hey are u referring to this video at 10.37 min? RGds D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYlXWHo7fk4&feature=youtu.be


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## jklip13 (Feb 13, 2017)

Chicagohawkie said:


> Considering the demand expressed here for these knives, you would think they would be brought to market. I'll believe it when I see it.



If you email me I can explain a little more, but I dint know the full story


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## JBroida (Feb 13, 2017)

Chicagohawkie said:


> There is a video of his work that displays his hamon work - It was very distinctive and unique. coincidentally right around his passing the kono white 2 Honyakis were never to be seen again.



Like this?


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## Customfan (Feb 13, 2017)

Did not know about the short of Honyaki White... might want to hang on to mine &#129300;

Konosuke is my preference but dont know about the new version, would need to see them, might be time for a new HB2? :spiteful:

Thanks for posting the videos, very informative


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 13, 2017)

im pretty sure we all know the knife in question.


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## JBroida (Feb 13, 2017)

Chicagohawkie said:


> im pretty sure we all know the knife in question.



i'm not trying to be a dick about it or anything... i'm just making the point that a lot of assumptions are made, and a lot of misinformation is passed around (sometimes intentionally and many times directly from japan). Then, that same info ends up on a forum and begins to get passed around as fact, when it is not. 

For what its worth, the knife pictured was one from Ashi-san he made for me many years ago. I cant tell you how many people have thought it was ikeda-san's forging over the years (including people in japan). Things like that are much less unique than you might imagine. Many people have similar styles. Also, with many knives from sakai, the blacksmith can be hard to tell because so much of the aesthetic finish is a function of the sharpening professional.


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## Omega (Feb 13, 2017)

Thank you Jon for elaborating like that- I think it is a lot more than we deserve from you. I'm sure the urge to be informative is hard met with the imperative of discretion.

For those interested in some of the pictures- Here are snaps from the video, showing Tatsuo's honyaki.





















And then, for reference, here are a couple White #2 Honyakis-
















I've also seen talk that Tatsuo Ikeda was responsible for the Masamoto KS-style Honyakis. I of course cannot confirm or deny any of that- but for those interested, here's a good picture of the hamon on one. (I believe the picture is of BKUltras.. but.. I'm not 100% on that)






Lastly, here's a photo of the Konosuke B#2 Honyaki, that was supposed to be done by a different Smith and Sharpener than the White #2s.






It is interesting to me how much this Blue #2 varies from the current models we see, and I wish I knew why.. I am not even attempting to conjecture! Just posting pictures for those that might like some source pictures for the conversation at hand.

...or want to drool at knife porn. Like me.


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## Oh_Toro (Feb 13, 2017)

JBroida said:


> Like this? View attachment 34598



What's the extra shiny spot on the spine at the bottom, middle-right of this image?


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## bkultra (Feb 13, 2017)

My Masamoto Honyaki was polished like that by Jon at one time, but I believe that one is not mine. I would also like to add that at one time I obsessed over who made my Masamoto Honyaki, but would I love it any less if I found out who the smith was or wasn't?


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## panda (Feb 13, 2017)

is that really a KS honyaki? it doesnt look close enough to a KS to me. the transition from flat to tip is too abrupt.


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## JBroida (Feb 13, 2017)

Oh_Toro said:


> What's the extra shiny spot on the spine at the bottom, middle-right of this image?



crappy reflection due to this being a cell phone pic with no thought behind it


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## Omega (Feb 13, 2017)

panda said:


> is that really a KS honyaki? it doesnt look close enough to a KS to me. the transition from flat to tip is too abrupt.



Well... I suppose I can't be 100% as it isn't my photo. But here's a screencap of the site and post I pulled it from:


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## bkultra (Feb 13, 2017)

You must be correct, I thought that was the one that gave me the idea to send it to Jon. I might have used that picture as an example of what I was talking about as well.


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## Omega (Feb 13, 2017)

Definitely not trying to be contrary- I was just looking at the post and assumed. 
It very easily could have been that you were referencing what you had done to your own, while showing the photo what inspired you. If you google Masamoto Honyaki, click Images, and then scroll down it'll take you to the ChowHound source.


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## panda (Feb 13, 2017)

i'm pretty sure that's not a photo of bk's actual HS. unless it's just a weird angle?


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## JBroida (Feb 13, 2017)

probably weird angle of the photo


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## jklip13 (Feb 13, 2017)

Omega said:


> Thank you Jon for elaborating like that- I think it is a lot more than we deserve from you. I'm sure the urge to be informative is hard met with the imperative of discretion.
> 
> For those interested in some of the pictures- Here are snaps from the video, showing Tatsuo's honyaki.
> 
> ...



I just wanted to confirm that these are not all made by Ikeda san. Im not sure if that was what you were trying to get across. Sorry if it was and I didn't understand


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