# Atoma wear and tear?



## Miles (Jun 25, 2017)

Query for the Atoma users out there. I've had an Atoma 400 for several months. Very happy with it compared to my DMT plates. I've noticed the center has taken on a vaguely rusty hue and it seems to be far less aggressive in that general area. What's the typical life expectancy from these plates? Mine still does the work but not as effectively. I expect a bit of fall off in performance after the initial breaking in phase but I don't think I've put it through that much in six months. Thoughts?


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## rick_english (Jun 25, 2017)

I haven't seen appreciable wear on my Atoma, but I have no idea how much I use it compared to you. The Atomas are light years ahead of the DMTs, and that's good enough for me.


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## Dave Martell (Jun 25, 2017)

Hey Mike,
I've worn through more than a few 140x Atoma plates so I've seen some common traits pop up. 

These are without question better at metal removal and stone flattening than DMTs are but they can wear faster than DMTs if used for certain tasks. What seems to be Atoma killers are coarse (<500x) stone flattening and wide bevel knife work. Coarse stone flattening wears the middle of the plate bare in short order especially with one good wide bevel flattening job - stick a fork in it - it's done! The outside edges and ends will live on for small edge bevel work but forget stone flattening after the middle starts to go.

Hope this helps some.


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## MindTone (Jun 26, 2017)

@Dave Martell
What would you recommend to flatten <500# stones so as to keep the Atoma alive for longer?


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## Matus (Jun 26, 2017)

I use JKI diamond plate for stone flattening and an Atoma 140 for thinning or re-beveling. When it comes to the EOL - it is similar to ceramic grinding belts. They cut super fast first few minutes and then the speed starts to go down. it is only a metter of what you cinsider acceptable. My atoma has about 10 - 15 work of knfie thinning it (most of that monosteel knives) and it definitely shows, but it still cuts fast enough. Atoma is definitely going to be more expensice per gramm of steel removed, but it does it so much faster than even a Bester 220, that it is simply worth the extra cost.


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## Miles (Jun 26, 2017)

I picked up the Atoma primarily for thinning and wide bevel work so that's how it's been used. It still cuts but I can definitely tell the periphery is a lot fresher than the center.


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## Dave Martell (Jun 26, 2017)

MindTone said:


> @Dave Martell
> What would you recommend to flatten <500# stones so as to keep the Atoma alive for longer?




Cinder block and silicon carbide....


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## Matus (Jun 26, 2017)

I like your style Dave, very nuanced and sophisticated


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## jklip13 (Jun 26, 2017)

At my pace I'm on my second set of Atoma plates after 5 years of heavy use on knives and stones


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## K813zra (Jun 26, 2017)

Dave Martell said:


> Cinder block and silicon carbide....



Doesn't working on the floor and leaning down into that pan hurt your back?


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## Dave Martell (Jun 26, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Doesn't working on the floor and leaning down into that pan hurt your back?




It sure does, that's why I don't do that. LOL

I also moved onto using my disc sander for coarse stone flattening - it's way more efficient and at a nice working height too.


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## K813zra (Jun 26, 2017)

Dave Martell said:


> It sure does, that's why I don't do that. LOL
> 
> I also moved onto using my disc sander for coarse stone flattening - it's way more efficient and at a nice working height too.



Hah, okay so it is not as it seems in the photo. I couldn't use a disk sander as I do not use power tools. All hand tools.


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## brooksie967 (Jun 26, 2017)

I did ONE knife on an atoma after over a year of using it for lapping only and it's not destroyed. There's a very large circular portion in the middle of the diamond plate that has ZERO diamonds left on it. 

One thing I'd like to mention is that when using these side by side DMT, i felt like the DMT was flatter. Dmt sucks at lapping though... gets very sticky and is hard to move on the stones. I'd take DMT for sharpenign and atoma for lapping but i wouldn't ever sharpen anything on one again.


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## K813zra (Jun 26, 2017)

brooksie967 said:


> I did ONE knife on an atoma after over a year of using it for lapping only and it's not destroyed. There's a very large circular portion in the middle of the diamond plate that has ZERO diamonds left on it.
> 
> One thing I'd like to mention is that when using these side by side DMT, i felt like the DMT was flatter. Dmt sucks at lapping though... gets very sticky and is hard to move on the stones. I'd take DMT for sharpenign and atoma for lapping but i wouldn't ever sharpen anything on one again.



I prefer not use diamonds for sharpening to begin with but I agree. Dmt for knives, atoma for stones or so I used to do. I just use a cheap plate for flattening now and it has held up fine thus far, 18 months in.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 26, 2017)

On my second Atoma 140. My 400 & 600 are in fair shape. Use the coarse grit to thin dull stainless knives. Now I like a 60grit belt & a bucket of water to take off steel. My second Atoma 140 was cheaper than the first I bought years ago. I figure without heavy duty it should last. Use it most for stones.


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## jklip13 (Jun 26, 2017)

Here's how I feel about diamond plates at 11:18 pm. For being made out of the hardest material on earth, they're kinda disappointing. Shouldn't they just last forever, cutting ZDP like it's plastic? 
On they other hand, considering they're dead flat stones that don't require flattening and have only a micron thick layer of abrasive - I'm pretty impressed.


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## K813zra (Jun 26, 2017)

jklip13 said:


> Here's how I feel about diamond plates at 11:18 pm. For being made out of the hardest material on earth, they're kinda disappointing. Shouldn't they just last forever, cutting ZDP like it's plastic?
> On they other hand, considering they're dead flat stones that don't require flattening and have only a micron thick layer of abrasive - I'm pretty impressed.



How they work doesn't bother me. How they feel while doing so does.


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## TurboScooter (Jun 27, 2017)

jklip13 said:


> Here's how I feel about diamond plates at 11:18 pm. For being made out of the hardest material on earth, they're kinda disappointing. Shouldn't they just last forever, cutting ZDP like it's plastic?
> On they other hand, considering they're dead flat stones that don't require flattening and have only a micron thick layer of abrasive - I'm pretty impressed.



That's more a problem with the bonding of the diamond particles to the substrate, not the diamonds themselves, at least as far as I understand. It's not that the diamonds themselves are wearing away, but more that the diamonds are torn out of the material used as a base so you're left with a plate with no diamond particles stuck to it.


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## Matus (Jun 27, 2017)

One important point is, that when using a diamond plate for thinning, one should not apply too much pressure. Not only it does not really speed up the work much, but it also shortens the lifespan of the plate. In particular the soft cladding is effective in pulling out the diamonds (more so than hagane).


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## brooksie967 (Jun 27, 2017)

Matus said:


> One important point is, that when using a diamond plate for thinning, one should not apply too much pressure. Not only it does not really speed up the work much, but it also shortens the lifespan of the plate. In particular the soft cladding is effective in pulling out the diamonds (more so than hagane).



Without pressure on an atoma the blade I was doing (old yanagi) just skated across it and barely cut at all.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 27, 2017)

brooksie967 said:


> Without pressure on an atoma the blade I was doing (old yanagi) just skated across it and barely cut at all.



Of coarse you need some pressure. Excessive pressure is not good for atoma plates, I learned that the hard way


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## MindTone (Jun 27, 2017)

keithsaltydog said:


> Of coarse you need some pressure. Excessive pressure is not good for atoma plates, I learned that the hard way



So how much pressure is excessive? :newhere:


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## Matus (Jun 27, 2017)

MindTone said:


> So how much pressure is excessive? :newhere:



Well, think of how much pressure you can apply when sharpening on stones (and want to remove some metal, not just sharpen a blade). Going to Atoma you should cut that down to a fraction of it and only apply gentle pressure - I would say worth of maybe 1kg or even less - really not much. Fingers on the hand which is applying the pressure on the blade should not feel strained.

BTW, Atoma can be of course used on wide bevel, but I personally thing that once the contact area between the blade and the Atoma or stone gets large, than using a stone is a better idea as you will get particles form the stone rolling between the two surfaces and grinding off the metal, while Atome may indeed feel like skating over, since it does not release any particles. Plus Atome will leave some seriously deep scratches - in some cases (depending on the cladding of the blade - one needs to try it out to know for sure) it may literally tear the cladding and leave gauges deeper than just scratch pattern one would expect.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 27, 2017)

I was using heavy finger pad pressure thinning stainless steel knives. High quality stainless, carbon steel esp. Japanese single bevel never use Diamond plates. I have restored rusted Yanagiba and Deba the thin edges can get damaged with coarse plates. The rust I sand off finish the edges with stones.

JMO any thin edged quality blade stay away from low# diamond plates.


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## Matus (Jun 28, 2017)

keithsaltydog said:


> JMO any thin edged quality blade stay away from low# diamond plates.



That is probably a good idea unless one knows very well what he/she is doing and how the knife is going to react.


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## nutmeg (Jun 28, 2017)

anyway you should use it perpendicular or diagonal to the final scratch pattern or you'll have difficulties to remove the deeper scratches


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## Matus (Jun 28, 2017)

nutmeg said:


> anyway you should use it perpendicular or diagonal to the final scratch pattern or you'll have difficulties to remove the deeper scratches



BIG +1


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## limpet (Jun 28, 2017)

I use Atoma plates mainly for flattening stones, but sometimes for thinning knives. I also use them when setting a bevel on cheap, super-dull stainless knives (when doing someone a favor). My experience, and I've heard other say this as well, is that they are more aggressive when new, then become less so when broken in. I've not worn them out yet.

Also, I got a tip from someone who really knows sharpening: never accumulate a lot of slur when flattening stones with Atoma. Do it under water or in running water. His experience was that the slur was eating away at the steel plate holding the diamonds, making the plate toothless after a while.


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## Ruso (Jun 28, 2017)

I use Atoma strictly for flattening. Works great in my book. When it wears down I will get a new one.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 28, 2017)

Yep use it mostly for flattening my large gesshin 1K at the school. Comes in handy for on the spot tip repair which is not that uncommon. Always take steel off from the spine when fixing tips.


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## MindTone (Jun 30, 2017)

Semi-random question: would the back of an Atoma plate with course silicon carbide work for flattening course stones? And how flat a surface is flat enough for flattening stones?


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## K813zra (Jun 30, 2017)

MindTone said:


> Semi-random question: would the back of an Atoma plate with course silicon carbide work for flattening course stones? And how flat a surface is flat enough for flattening stones?



How flat is flat enough? I think that would depend on who you ask. If it gets my edge sharp, it is flat enough. I haven't met a diamond plate yet that wouldn't suffice and I have some really cheap ones. None have noticeable, to me, warp though.


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