# Whiskey



## rami_m (Feb 18, 2015)

I have always been a whisky drinker. But never ventured far from your standard Johnny walker and Chivas. 
I would like to educate myself but not spend the world. Suggestions welcome


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## Vesteroid (Feb 18, 2015)

McCallan


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## wellminded1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Are you looking to stay with blended whisky or open to try single malts. bourbons, rye?


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## Jordanp (Feb 18, 2015)

I am actually interested in this as well especially if theirs any rec. on bourbons:doublethumbsup:


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## wellminded1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Jordanp said:


> I am actually interested in this as well especially if theirs any rec. on bourbons:doublethumbsup:



Are you new to Bourbon? if so how will you drink it? neat , with ice , with water, mixed? I prefer mine neat or with a drop of water. I always suggest Makers Mark or Buffalo Trace if you are new to bourbon, very drinkable. But myself lately I have been sipping on Orphan Barrel 20yr old Barterhouse, and Mithchers.


And for single malt, Macallan is good. But if you want to try something great, the Nikka japanese distillery is amazing.


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## Anton (Feb 18, 2015)

It's like dating
YOU gotta try a few and see what you like.


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## wellminded1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Anton said:


> It's like dating
> Gotta try an few and see what you like



Well I must be a promiscuous fella, hahaha. I have tried quiet a few. In fact I have about 18 bottles in my cabinet.


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## Cheeks1989 (Feb 18, 2015)

With out breaking the bank my go to bourbon is woodford reserve. Very good drinker for the money.


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## EdipisReks (Feb 18, 2015)

Just start buying things that are in your price range and drink. Best way to find out what you like.


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## Jordanp (Feb 18, 2015)

I usually drink neat or with 1 ice cube but yea tried makers mark, buffalo trace and wild turkey so far and a few others that I can't remember.


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## EdipisReks (Feb 18, 2015)

wellminded1 said:


> And for single malt, Macallan is good. But if you want to try something great, the Nikka japanese distillery is amazing.



Nikka is very good, especially Yoichi.


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## mkriggen (Feb 19, 2015)

I have lately become very fond of 'Gentleman Jack', neat with one or two ice cubes.

Be well,
Mikey


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## Godslayer (Feb 19, 2015)

whole bunch of possible recomendations( I also habitat on whisky.com's forum. for budget stuff, woodford reserve is an awesome bourbon less than 40 us and there are 375 ml bottles on the market. For single malts, I would go for glendronach 12-15 for a sherried malt, lots of dried fruit, caramel etc. For a peated malt, laphroig quarter cask, about $40 48% loaded with deep oak flavour and peat, smokey little monster(its aged in smaller casks) so more oak to malt action, and also extremly peated (my personal favorite budget malt), highland park 12 is also good, the 18 wins a lot of awards.... save that for a special ocassion it retails around 100 the 12 is 40-50. Also talisker 10, great powerful malt. For foreign malts, I would go nikka(I like nikka black) or amrut fusion... japanese and indian malts. irish whisky my nudge is green spot. for blends, teachers or dewars 12. Also if you see minitures that arent absurdly priced grab them. I recently sat down with a trio of tomatin minatures and was pleasently suprised. 

Anyways best of luck on your malt journey


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## rami_m (Feb 19, 2015)

wellminded1 said:


> Are you looking to stay with blended whisky or open to try single malts. bourbons, rye?



I am an open minded guy  

Lot of interesting info here


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## panda (Feb 19, 2015)

some of my favs:
basil hayden - super smooth
russells reserve - sweet/nutty
elijah craig - comforting
wild turkey rare breed - for when you want some kick
four roses small batch - bang for buck champ
(ri) 1 - fruity/spicy
blantons - awesome
whistlepig rye - awesomest

not much of a scotch drinker, but i like bowmore and glenmorangie


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## TexasMethod (Feb 19, 2015)

Bourbon - Noah's Mill is complex and i believe aged 15yrs.
Rye - My favorite is Willet Rye, but might be hard to find. A good affordable one is Sazerac Rye
Scotch - Anything from Balvenie. The Doublewood 12 is super easy to drink if you are new. The carribean cask is something interesting. And any of their higher end stuff is awesome. Glencadem 15 is very smooth, on the smoky side. The Nikka 12 as suggested is good, very peaty, so it's pretty polarizing. Try before buying IMO. I liked the Yamazaki's I tried.


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## Timthebeaver (Feb 19, 2015)

(Staying firmly in the realm of single malt scotch whisky), bare in mind there are large differences between different bottlings from even a single distillery, and the picture becomes even more muddied when you consider independent and single cask bottlings. So I'm going to recommend some "standard" distillery bottlings from different regions (i.e. the mainstays of their core range) since these are readily available, good value for money and (reasonably) consistent.

Glenmorangie 10 year old - Speyside - Still _the_ starter single malt, in my opinion. A well balanced, good example of the Speyside style.

Benromach 10 year old - Speyside - One of the smallest distilleries in Scotland, this is non-chill filtered and has no colourant added (good thing). The distillery is aiming for a flavour profile found in Speyside whisky from times past - and the results are outstanding. Highest recommendation, excellent value for money.

Ardmore Traditional Cask, no age statement - Highland - Inexpensive, craft presentation as the Benromach. Well balanced peat and smoke, in the Highland style.

Old Pulteney 12 year old - Highland - A lighter highlander with a brine edge. Consistently good.

Talisker 10 year old - Skye - For a long time I felt this was the best standard bottling about. Quality has slipped a bit in recent years, but it's still a must-try. A robust malt with heaps of smoke, a good hit of peat and pronounced salt. You'll either love it or hate it.

Highland Park 12 year old - Highland - _The_ all-rounder. Perfect second malt. Highland Park on a whole is a victim of it's own success (as Talisker) but the core bottling is still a reference.

Glengoyne 10 year old - Highland - A "highland" distilled in the lowlands, this is a smooth and sweet, honeyed malt. Good starter malt.

Springbank 10 year old - Campbeltown - The best standard bottling IMO, but not the best starter malt. Far more complex than most core bottlings with a style all of its own. Dry, salt and barley sugar flavours to the fore. Highest recommendation.

Clynelish 14 year old - Highland - Also a very individual style, robust with vanilla, brine, bitter flavours and a strange waxiness too. Not a starter malt either.

Lagavulin 16 year old - Islay - The second best standard bottling IMO. On the sweeter side of Islay malts, but great balance of sherry, peat, smoke and phenolic character. A must try.

Laphroaig 10 year old - Islay - Quality on the wane a little (as above) - Still one of the better standard bottlings, and one of the most polarising out there. Peat, phenols, salt with a medicinal character. Very different from the Lagavulin.

Bunnahabhain 12 year old - Islay - A lighter representative of the Islay style, craft presentation, well-priced. Recommended.

Craigellachie 13 year old - Speyside - A new release single malt from a distillery where most of the whisky goes into Dewar's blends. A very unique malt, with unusual spirit sulphur and spicy notes. Not an intro malt. One of the most interesting new bottlings from last year.

Glenfarclas 10 year old - Highland - A heavily sherried, sweet, thick malt from Glenfarclas. Great if you like that sort of thing. Cask strength version (105) if you can find it is much better though.

Glendronach 12 year old - Highland - Another sherried monster, although the 15 year old (also readily available) is a considerable step up.


Standard bottlings to avoid:

The Macallan - Once the watchword for the highest quality in malt whisky, the current owners are cashing in on the fine reputation of this distillery and charging big bucks for mediocre malt. Possibly the saddest story in scotch currently.

The Dalmore - see above.

Bowmore - see above.

Honourable mentions in this company: Oban, Jura, Ben Nevis.


Other general thoughts:

Buy non-chill filtered, no colour added, higher strength (usually comes hand in hand with the first two) bottlings where possible. 

Remember that all distilleries can produce gems and pigs, some produce more of one type than others.

Standard bottlings are generally pretty consistent products, blended to produce a standard/reference flavour profile. If you buy an independent bottling/single cask, it may be a very different animal.

Japanese single malts are generally high quality, but not as good value vs. Scottish whiskies at the same price point. Start with Miyagikyo or Yoichi 10 year old if you want to go down this route. The Yamazaki 10 year old is a decent dram too.

Yes, there are no Lowland whiskies in there. Not my thing, although the folk at the Auchentoshan distillery are really nice, and (as with any distillery) some of their single casks are gems.

Casks are far more important than number on the front of bottles. (although unscrupulous distilleries e.g. Macallan, as above are using no-age-statement bottlings as vehicles for poor malt).

Older does not equal better, but certainly equals (exponentially) more expensive.

I like Bourbon and Rye too. 


*Disclaimer*: All of above are the opinions of one man, and one man's meat is another man's poison.

TTB


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## Timthebeaver (Feb 19, 2015)

Addendum: Glenmorangie is classed as a Highland distillery. It's early :biggrin:


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## wellminded1 (Feb 19, 2015)

Great thread so far guys.


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## Framingchisel (Feb 19, 2015)

With prices and exchange issues here in Canada we are, sadly LOL, forced to drink the local Canadian Club small batch 12 year and Canadian Club Sherry cask. Try them if you dare......Please note that the various batches are quite different.
I have laid in a good supply for WTSHTF.


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## wellminded1 (Feb 19, 2015)

If youre drinking Canadian Club, it has to be the rye. One of the best and easiest to find in Canada.


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## Timthebeaver (Feb 19, 2015)

wellminded1 said:


> If youre drinking Canadian Club, it has to be the rye. One of the best and easiest to find in Canada.



I agree with this sentiment.


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## rami_m (Feb 20, 2015)

So for the whiskey drinkers out there. How do you prefer to drink it?


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## Timthebeaver (Feb 20, 2015)

Totally dependent on the whisk(e)y.

I drink mainly cask strength single malt scotch whiskies. Some are good unadulterated, some are good with water. Adding water can (and usually) has a drastic effect on the flavour - sometimes much better, sometimes much worse and everything in between. Trial and error until you find a sweet spot usually. I have whiskies that I enjoy both straight and watered down - different but both good. Adding water will alter the taste of more modest strength whiskies in a similar way. 

I very rarely add ice, although this can be beneficial on the odd occasion by muting certain elements of the flavour profile more than others. For example, I like Yamazaki 10 year old with a single small piece of ice.

I will occasionally make long drinks if I am given crap. :biggrin:


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## Doug Seward (Feb 20, 2015)

Starter Bourbons: Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare, Lexington, and Four Roses are a great place to start. I also really like Angel's Envy.

Try them if you get the chance: Pappy Van Winkle(15 year is the best), George T. Stagg

Rye: Bulleit is a good place to start. I also like High West's Double Rye. Try Whistlepig if you get the chance. 

Single Malts: Lots of good ones, sadly they have gone up so much in price. Balvenie, Arberlour, Craggenmore, and Highland Park are good ones to start with.

For more smoke, Lagavulin 16 is amazing and quite easy to find. Talisker Storm is also very good. I once had a Bowmore 25 which was a singular moment I will always remember. Ardbeg is for serious Peat lovers as is Peat Monster.

My all time favorites are Springbank 21 and Dalmore 30 Stillman's Dram, but they are quite pricey now. 

For Irish, Redbreast is probably the smoothest whisky I have ever sampled. Green Spot is now available in PA  and I highly recommend it.

Saving the surprise for last - Ron Zacapa Rum. I introduce it to friends as the rum for whisk(e)y drinkers. Lots of complexity and a very long finish with strong similarity to the Dalmore 30. You won't regret trying it. Just hide it from anyone inclined to mix it with anything. 

As far as how to drink, I taste everything 100 proof or less without water, then add a little at a time to see how it opens up the flavor. Some whiskies change dramatically and for the better (Talisker especially). Anything over 100 proof needs water or you will anesthetize your taste buds, missing the subtlety of flavors. Get a good glass, I like the Glencairn tasting glass. 

Look up WhiskeyFest. If you go, prepare to be amazed and delighted. -Doug


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## Cheeks1989 (Feb 20, 2015)

Great suggestion on the Ron Zacapa rum that is a great rum for the money very smooth.


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## TexasMethod (Feb 20, 2015)

I have a set of Glencairn glasses and yes for new whiskies it is best to use. The small focused opening really helps to let you experience the whiskey. However for normal drinking I recently started using the Glencairn Canadian Whiskey glasses. They are a larger, sturdier version with a little bit of a tulip flare at the opening. Similarly lets you focus the aroma's but in a larger size and it won't tip over. 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005LSA4GQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## panda (Feb 21, 2015)

Oh yeah, redbreast is great. 
I like to drink in a boxy not round glass with a single large ice cube.


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## chiffonodd (Feb 21, 2015)

wellminded1 said:


> Are you new to Bourbon? if so how will you drink it? neat , with ice , with water, mixed? I prefer mine neat or with a drop of water. I always suggest Makers Mark or Buffalo Trace if you are new to bourbon, very drinkable. But myself lately I have been sipping on Orphan Barrel 20yr old Barterhouse, and Mithchers.
> 
> 
> And for single malt, Macallan is good. But if you want to try something great, the Nikka japanese distillery is amazing.



+1 for buffalo trace, incredible bourbon for the price point. I actually like it better than their single barrel (eagle rare).


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## chiffonodd (Feb 21, 2015)

wellminded1 said:


> Are you new to Bourbon? if so how will you drink it? neat , with ice , with water, mixed? I prefer mine neat or with a drop of water. I always suggest Makers Mark or Buffalo Trace if you are new to bourbon, very drinkable. But myself lately I have been sipping on Orphan Barrel 20yr old Barterhouse, and Mithchers.
> 
> 
> And for single malt, Macallan is good. But if you want to try something great, the Nikka japanese distillery is amazing.



+1 buffalo trace - great bourbon for the price point. Better than their single barrel I think (eagle rare).


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## brainsausage (Feb 21, 2015)

Where the hell is JohnnyChance? That guy is a bourbon encyclopedia...


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## panda (Feb 22, 2015)

I heard he's in new Orleans


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## brainsausage (Feb 22, 2015)

panda said:


> I heard he's in new Orleans



I wasn't referring to where he is geographically Sun, I know he's in N.O. :tease:


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## Chifunda (Mar 8, 2015)

Being a bourbon drinker for better than fifty years may not make me an expert, but I think it does entitle me to an opinion.:happymug:

A few that I always seem to have on hand and would recommend, in no particular order:

Buffalo Trace, as several others have suggested
Elijah Craig 12
Four Roses Single Barrel and/or Small Batch
Larceny
Ridgemont Reserve 1792
Evan Williams Single Barrel
Wild Turkey Rare Breed
W.L. Weller 12

And for times when there are budgetary constraints or for mixing:
Old Grand Dad Bonded
Evan Williams Bonded (White Label)


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## Mucho Bocho (Mar 9, 2015)

I've got a taste for bourbon too. Had two bottle of of Pappy 20 at one point. For top shelf Bookers is best, second for me is Rare Breed Wild Turkey without a doubt. At $14 a fifth, you can't go wrong with Fighting ****.


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## Chifunda (Mar 9, 2015)

Mucho Bocho said:


> At $14 a fifth, you can't go wrong with Fighting ****.



Okay, that does it! I'm going to try a bottle.&#128563;&#128513;


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## Dardeau (Mar 9, 2015)

A 1/5 of fighting **** can lead you so, so wrong.


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## Chifunda (Mar 9, 2015)

It just looks so damn redneck. I have this vision of tasting notes like, "initial favors of boiled peanuts and pork rinds lead to a mid palate symphony of pulled pork, watermelon and Slim Jims with a long finish of Frogmore stew. This is some good sh*t!"


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## Mucho Bocho (Mar 9, 2015)

It's pretty rough around the edges but after the fourth dram you won't care. Are you drinking it out of the Glenkairn glasses? A must.


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## Chifunda (Mar 9, 2015)

Mucho Bocho said:


> It's pretty rough around the edges but after the fourth dram you won't care. Are you drinking it out of the Glenkairn glasses? A must.



I have the Reidel single malt and bourbon glasses but I'm thinkin' mason jar. Or maybe an old cardboard bait container that night crawlers came in.


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## stereo.pete (Mar 9, 2015)

Blanton's is my favorite, but my every day bourbon is Bulleit.


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## clsm1955 (Mar 30, 2015)

For a smooth and slightly sweet bourbon I recommend Elija Craig. It can often be had at Costco for under $30. I'm partial to Ridgemont Reserve 1792 bourbon, usually under $40. Its a little dryer but still very smooth.


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## bob_loblaw (Mar 30, 2015)

stereo.pete said:


> Blanton's is my favorite, but my every day bourbon is Bulleit.



+1 for Blanton
Also currently drinking Hudson four grain and Lock Stock & Barrel 13 yr rye


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## Dazedandkasumi (Apr 1, 2015)

For the money nothing beats bulleit 95% rye. Gets better the longer down the bottle you get


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## drawman623 (Apr 6, 2015)

These are my top 3 picks if you are spending less than $200 on a bottle. When I last priced the Japanese favorite, it was a bit more expensive ~$240 than when I purchased it originally <$200. WELL worth the asking price though.

McCallan 18
Oban 18
Yamazaki 18

My personal absolute favorite is Ballentine's 21 yr old. It is very hard to find but smooth as silk. The 30 is more common but the price jumps considerably. ~$400

Good Scotch on a budget:
Dalwinnie 15 yr old
Lafroig 10 yr old
Glenlevet Nadura

Scotches that were a disappointment to me personally
Ardbeg (too much peat)
Glenfiddich 21
Duncan Taylor 30
Glenlevet 21
Balvenie 15 (Sherry Cask)(tends to be too complex for my taste)
Glenmorangie (tends to be too complex for my taste)

For Bourbon I have not developed a preference.
Blanton and Angel's Envy fell short compared to the Scotches I like.
Pappy 20 is on the hit list though.


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## FrankTheTank (Apr 6, 2015)

The Hakushu, single malt Japanese whisky, 12 yrs. on the rocks. Slight smoke and green apple.... Realllly nice. Glad I have a bottle to sip from every now and again. around 50.00


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 6, 2015)

my new favorite. 

too bad it's hard to get. but i found a small run at COSTCO!! $40.

Green Spot Irish Whiskey. i am blown away by how good it is. i want to hoard it. 

google it.


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## thomascarlsson (Apr 7, 2015)

Johnny Walkers is my favourite too. I would suggest you to try Teachers. It is too good.


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## wellminded1 (Apr 7, 2015)

boomchakabowwow said:


> my new favorite.
> 
> too bad it's hard to get. but i found a small run at COSTCO!! $40.
> 
> ...



Green Spot is an amazing Irish whisky , you're correct. Writers Tears is another brilliant Irish dram.


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## SolidSnake03 (Apr 7, 2015)

Been really enjoying Pendleton 1910 Canadian Rye Whiskey. For <$40 it is a very smooth drink and bats WAY above it's price range. The "regular" Pendleton is very solid as well at a bit <$30 or so per bottle. Both are great but if your going to try one definitely splurge a tiny bit and get the 1910, worth the extra few $'s


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 7, 2015)

wellminded1 said:


> Green Spot is an amazing Irish whisky , you're correct. Writers Tears is another brilliant Irish dram.




Writer's Tears!! thanks. noted.


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## Cashn (Apr 8, 2015)

Jeffersons makes some good bourbon, specially the Ocean if you can get it. Not very expensive ($45?) just somewhat limited. Bookers is a good cheap cask strength for what you get, I prefer the cask strength bourbons/scotch myself. I feel you get so much more flavor and you can water it down to your liking. As much as it is marketed if you like straight rye whiskey Sazerac Rye is good stuff. Old overholt rye is great for mixing, it's dirt cheap and give you more of a rye kick in the teeth that is easily tempered in a good Sazerac or old fashioned. Scotch wise my top pick is Aberlour in any form, the A'bunadh cask strength being the best but not cheap. Macallan is another good one, I just prefer Aberlour. For everyday drinking dewars usually does the trick. I'm not a fan of the smokey stuff, if you are the Aberlour probably won't be your thing but if you prefer the sherry barrel stuff it is excellent.


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## Mucho Bocho (Apr 8, 2015)

Cashn said:


> Jeffersons makes some good bourbon, specially the Ocean if you can get it. Not very expensive ($45?) just somewhat limited. Bookers is a good cheap cask strength for what you get, I prefer the cask strength bourbons/scotch myself. I feel you get so much more flavor and you can water it down to your liking. As much as it is marketed if you like straight rye whiskey Sazerac Rye is good stuff. Old overholt rye is great for mixing, it's dirt cheap and give you more of a rye kick in the teeth that is easily tempered in a good Sazerac or old fashioned. Scotch wise my top pick is Aberlour in any form, the A'bunadh cask strength being the best but not cheap. Macallan is another good one, I just prefer Aberlour. For everyday drinking dewars usually does the trick. I'm not a fan of the smokey stuff, if you are the Aberlour probably won't be your thing but if you prefer the sherry barrel stuff it is excellent.



Barrel strength in bourbon is called Bonded. I don't think any bonded bourbon packs more flavor for the price as does Wild Turkey Rare Breed $45. Cashn I agree about drinking non-barrel strength booze. 

As a side note: if you get a chance, taste Troy and Sons moonshine (80 proof). The bouquet is florally but dry. Blows away A $30 blanco tequila.


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## Bonertyme (Apr 8, 2015)

Yamazaki japanese whiskey is smooth. or try Oban


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 8, 2015)

wellminded1 said:


> Green Spot is an amazing Irish whisky , you're correct. Writers Tears is another brilliant Irish dram.




any USA vendors? i want a bottle.


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## Timthebeaver (Apr 9, 2015)

While Green Spot and Writer's Tears are very popular, they are too vanilla (and sweet) for my blood. If you value "smooth" whiskey, you'll probably rate it. I'd give Knappogue Castle the edge over these similarly-priced whiskies, personally. In the EU at least, I feel that Irish whiskies are generally not as good as the Scottish single malts in the same bracket. YMMV.

For a more challenging Irish dram with marked complexity, I strongly recommend Redbreast 12 y/o cask strength

Am tasting Teeling single malt Irish whiskies this weekend, should be interesting.


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## wellminded1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Timthebeaver said:


> While Green Spot and Writer's Tears are very popular, they are too vanilla (and sweet) for my blood. If you value "smooth" whiskey, you'll probably rate it. I'd give Knappogue Castle the edge over these similarly-priced whiskies, personally. In the EU at least, I feel that Irish whiskies are generally not as good as the Scottish single malts in the same bracket. YMMV.
> 
> For a more challenging Irish dram with marked complexity, I strongly recommend Redbreast 12 y/o cask strength
> 
> Am tasting Teeling single malt Irish whiskies this weekend, should be interesting.




I forgot all about the Redbreast, very good whisky. When I was in Ireland, we drank alot of Middleton, also a very good pour. And speaking of vanilla sweet whiskies, I have been sipping a bottle of Dalmore cigar Malt, boy is it sweet.


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## Timthebeaver (Apr 9, 2015)

Agree on the Dalmore Cigar Malt. Up there with the Balvenie Caribbean Cask for me, cloying stuff.

Interestingly the old Dalmore Cigar Malt was quite a different character, which sat between the 12- and 15-year old expressions in the OBs. Was one of the great value Highland malts, imo. They discontinued it when rebranding The Dalmore as a more super-premium* whisky iirc. After a brief hiatus it returned - as an inferior (imo) dram at double the original price tag. Barstewards.

* http://www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyl...-the-dalmore-launch-987-500-whisky-collection


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## ImpossibleGermany (Jun 3, 2015)

EdipisReks said:


> Nikka is very good, especially Yoichi.



+1

Their "Nikka from the Barrel" is also very good. Not too crazy on the wallet either. 

On a very different note, also been enjoying the Redbreast range of Irish whiskey.

I quite like bourbons too - Black Maple Hill, Hudson Baby, Jefferson Reserve all favorites.


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## TexasMethod (Jun 4, 2015)

At liquor stores in my area you can purchase scotch samplers for about $20.00

I have seen Glendronach and The Balvenie with 3 samples each of a low, medium, and high priced sample of about 1.5oz per type.

I would suggest something like this if you can find it as it would let you try 6 whiskys for cheap.

If you can find a whiskey bar that will do smaller drinks for things like whiskey flights, that would also be a cheaper way to explore the styles and get a feel for what you are in to right now. Your tastes will change with time, so don't look forever for the "perfect" whiskey, just enjoy them.


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## Stearate (Jun 7, 2015)

I didn't see these scotch whiskey posted but these are definitely worth trying.

Bowmore 18. Higher proof, good peat, lightly sweet.
Laphroaig Quarter cask- Peat monster.
Bruichladdich Laddie 16- This may be discontinued at this point but AMAZING. Light peat, smooth as butter, light vanilla fragrance, on the sweeter end. 
Glendronarch 15- Hard to describe, its more of an all arounder. Lightly sweet, light peat, great body, light medium alcohol, light fragrance, full body. Well worth the money. 

as for bourbons try out 4 roses. Makes a mean Old Fashion.


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## mille162 (Jul 7, 2015)

Go out and find a good tequila bar, buy a glass of Jose Cuervo Reserva de la Familia extra anejo. If they have it, order Tequila Ocho Anejo. If you want it "smokier", there's an endless supply of Mezcal's to dive into, but take some time with the anejo's and extra anejo's first.

Tequila is the new whiskey and is best when sipped neat. I've converted 6 Whiskey/Scotch drinking friends so far, give it a try.


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## panda (Jul 7, 2015)

only way i drink tequila is a shot or in margarita!
sipping on (ri)1 rye whiskey at the moment.


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## LarryC (Jul 12, 2015)

I see a lot of good advice being thrown around here! Nice to see what fellow malt drinkers are up to!

You guys might want to look into this youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralfystuff

Ralfy is a walking encyclopedia on anything malt related and he reviewed about every whisky available! His videos we're really helpful when I started getting into whisky!

Cheers!


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## Butters (Jul 12, 2015)

Just finished a wonderful bottle of Glendronach 18, aged in sherry casks. The sherry casks give it a richer, almost burnt caramel type sweetness. It's reasonably priced for an 18yo too.


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## JohnnyChance (Jul 12, 2015)

brainsausage said:


> Where the hell is JohnnyChance? That guy is a bourbon encyclopedia...



I'm here now.


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## JohnnyChance (Jul 12, 2015)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Barrel strength in bourbon is called Bonded. I don't think any bonded bourbon packs more flavor for the price as does Wild Turkey Rare Breed $45. Cashn I agree about drinking non-barrel strength booze.



This is completely incorrect. The Bonded act started in 1897 as some consumer protection against people selling flavored or under aged whiskey as something it was not. For the most part it is no longer required as an indication of a quality product. WT Rare Breed is not a bonded bourbon, Wild Turkey does not produce any bonded whiskeys. 

Bonded bourbon is always 100 proof and aged at least 4 years. It must be distilled in the same season, by one distiller. It must be aged in a government bonded warehouse and list on the label where it was distilled. If bottled at a different location than distilled, it must also list the bottling location.

Like I said, it is less of a requirement today than it was 100 years ago, but bonded bourbons and ryes are still great because you know exactly what you are getting for a very good price. Old Grand Dad Bonded and Rittenhouse Rye Bonded are great additions to anyone's home bar. They are super versatile, make excellent bases for classic or craft cocktails, are cheap enough to be mixed with coke/sprite/ginger, used for shots, or sipped neat or on the rocks.


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## Bill13 (Jul 12, 2015)

Doug was nice enough to give me a 1/5 of Whistling Pig Rye at the ECG and while I am not knowledgeable about whiskey I will say it was really, really good!!! Best whiskey I have ever had. It might be a good thing that the VA ABC stores don't stock it.


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## JohnnyChance (Jul 12, 2015)

I drink a lot of whiskey and at this point have more invested in my bourbon collection than in my knives (and I've got quite a few of those as you know). I like cask strength bourbons and I have a lot of favorites in the 120-150 proof range. But you have to work your way up to that, can't just start drinking 147.7 proof bourbon neat on day one. And while the cask strength stuff is great, my preference is for bourbons in the 100-115 range. Properly produced and then aged, they don't require much water to bring them down into this range. The less water you add the better. I also rarely use bourbon or rye in cocktails that is less than 100 proof. With the affordable and delicious Bonded offerings I mentioned above, there is no reason to use more expensive and lower proof options. And quite often it actually makes a worse cocktail than the cheaper, high proof option.

Figuring out who makes each brand can help you in your purchases as well. Companies like Jim Beam and Buffalo Trace produce many many different brands. If you like one, you might like other things they offer. Less risk when buying more expensive options. Also, if you like their high end stuff, definitely try their cheaper offerings as well.

There are also many brands out there that actually don't make anything, they just purchase bourbon or rye from other people and bottle it themselves. I prefer to not buy things from these types because from a value perspective it's usually just cheaper to get it directly from the source (or from someone else who uses the same source but sells it cheaper). Brands like Bulleit, Templeton, Angel's Envy, Noah's Mill, Rowan's Creek, Whistle Pig, etc are all in this category of Non Distilling Producers (NDPs). If you like Bulleit rye, try George Dickel rye. They get it from the same place (MGP of Indiana) and the Dickel is usually cheaper. And remember, the brands you recognize from advertisements are going to cost more because they spent all that money on the ads! 

The other thing I tend to avoid is craft distilleries. Unlike knives or anything artisan, bourbon is better made on a large scale. Companies like Buffalo Trace have been doing this a long time and have experimented with many different mashbills, barrels, entry proof, aging conditions, etc to test what makes the best bourbon. The other thing they have on their side is time. It takes time to properly age bourbon. It just starts to get good at 4 years old, but really benefits from being 6-12 years old. Craft distillers don't have the resources to wait 6 or 10 years to put products on the shelves. So instead they often put very young whiskey out. And while some of it is decent or interesting, it is often not good bourbon, especially compared to what the big guys can make and put on a shelf for $20-35.

Here are a few fairly common options that I feel are a good value. Getting at least one from each distillery will help you identify which house flavor profiles you prefer.

Old Weller Antique (Buffalo Trace)
Weller 12 year old (Buffalo Trace)
Old Grand Dad Bonded (Jim Beam)
Old Grand Dad 114 proof (Jim Beam)
Knob Creek Single Barrel 120 proof (Jim Beam)
Booker's (Jim Beam)
Fighting Cock (Heaven Hill)
Henry McKenna Bonded (Heaven Hill)
Elijah Craig 12y0 (Heaven Hill)
Elijah Craig Barrel Proof (Heaven Hill)
Four Roses Small Batch (Four Roses)
Four Roses Single Barrel (Four Roses)
Four Roses Single Barrel Cask Strength (Four Roses)
Smooth Ambler Old Scout 10yo (MGP)
Abraham Bowman Single Barrel (Buffalo Trace)
Old Forester Signature (Brown-Forman)
Wild Turkey Rare Breed (Wild Turkey)
Russel's Reserve Single Barrel 110 Proof (Wild Turkey)

There are plenty more but this is a pretty good place to start without breaking the bank.


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## brainsausage (Jul 12, 2015)

^See... I told you guys!

And it's about goddamn time Johnny.


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## Butters (Jul 12, 2015)

Wow. A bourbon masterclass. I'll have to try and find a few of those in the UK.


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## Macilvaine33 (Jul 12, 2015)

rami_m said:


> I have always been a whisky drinker. But never ventured far from your standard Johnny walker and Chivas.
> I would like to educate myself but not spend the world. Suggestions welcome



You will not be disappointed with a bottle of Pendleton. It definitely won't break the bank either. Give it a shot.


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## DamageInc (Jul 13, 2015)

I got really into bourbon a few years ago before it got big here in Denmark. Back then, nobody knew what was good and what wasn't, and what was rare and what was common, so every liquor store or wine shop would just order the standard catalog of the Buffalo Trace distillery. This would include the Antique collection that comes out every fall season, but also the odd bottle or two of Pappy Van Winkle 20, 15, and 10. So these shops would be selling bottles of Pappy 20 for Danish catalog price of around 150 USD. I had read previously about Pappy Van Winkle and about it being this "Holy Grail" in the whisky world and about how it's so incredibly expensive and rare and so on....

So when I walked into a wine shop in Roskilde and saw they had two bottles of Pappy 20 just standing on the shelf with a sticker price of 160 USD, I immediately purchased both bottles. The man behind the counter was quite shocked at a customer so quickly pulling down two "expensive" bottles for purchase seemingly without any consideration. As he was ringing it up, he commented "I've never tasted these, but they seem to be very expensive for american whiskey.".
A week later I came back and he had two more bottles of Pappy 20 and a single Pappy 15. Purchased them all again. He told me that I was crazy for spending such ludicrous amounts on american whiskey. I came back again a week later and there was nothing. The owner told me he couldn't get any more bottles because Buffalo Trace had stopped distribution of all products to Europe except for their base line of Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare, etc. I told him that Pappy Van Winkle 20 goes for around 1100 USD per bottle at auction. He laughed.

I've since opened one bottle of the 20 year old. It's great stuff. Incredible, really. But to be honest, it's only mildly better than my second favorite bourbon Elmer T. Lee, which I can get shipped from the UK for just around 50 USD. But even that is getting hard to find now. So my in my last Elmer T. Lee order I picked up 6 bottles which should last me a few years. The rest of the Pappy bottles are going on auction. I figure for every bottle I sell, I can get a really sweet knife. Seems like a good investment to me.

I also recently picked up a bottle of Whistlepig, which I am very excited to try.


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## DamageInc (Jul 13, 2015)

Also, for any experienced whisky drinker who would like to try something a little bit challenging and complex and incredibly delicious, I highly recommend anCnoc 16 year old.

And for any beginners, check out Ralfystuff on youtube. The man knows everything about whisky.

[video=youtube;lCXkAy5XvcU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCXkAy5XvcU[/video]

He not only reviews whisky, but teaches about keeping open bottles fresh, how to add water to whisky, how and where to buy whisky, what to look for, whisky and smoking, whisky collecting, and so forth.


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## Butters (Jul 13, 2015)

Oh anCnoc, yes please. I scored a bottle of the 1998 from a whisky loving mate for a birthday. It's very, very good, and didn't last long.


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## Butters (Jul 13, 2015)

I also have a cracking bottle of Scarpa 12 on the go. Well worth trying if you see it.


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## Bill13 (Jul 13, 2015)

JohnnyChance said:


> I drink a lot of whiskey and at this point have more invested in my bourbon collection than in my knives (and I've got quite a few of those as you know). I like cask strength bourbons and I have a lot of favorites in the 120-150 proof range. But you have to work your way up to that, can't just start drinking 147.7 proof bourbon neat on day one. And while the cask strength stuff is great, my preference is for bourbons in the 100-115 range. Properly produced and then aged, they don't require much water to bring them down into this range. The less water you add the better. I also rarely use bourbon or rye in cocktails that is less than 100 proof. With the affordable and delicious Bonded offerings I mentioned above, there is no reason to use more expensive and lower proof options. And quite often it actually makes a worse cocktail than the cheaper, high proof option.
> 
> Figuring out who makes each brand can help you in your purchases as well. Companies like Jim Beam and Buffalo Trace produce many many different brands. If you like one, you might like other things they offer. Less risk when buying more expensive options. Also, if you like their high end stuff, definitely try their cheaper offerings as well.
> 
> ...



Wow Johnny, thanks for sharing all this info!

I looked up Whistle Pigs website and they mention that on 7/4 of this year they will begin distilling their own whiskey, so we've got 10 years to go!

So do NDP buy the whiskey after it is distilled then age it themselves, do they buy it after it's aged or is it some combination?

This whole NDP concept is very common in the wine world, but maybe that is because so many decisions still have to be made after the grapes are harvested. It's also very common for wineries when starting out to buy their grapes until their plants are mature enough to produce.


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## JohnnyChance (Jul 13, 2015)

Bill13 said:


> Wow Johnny, thanks for sharing all this info!
> 
> I looked up Whistle Pigs website and they mention that on 7/4 of this year they will begin distilling their own whiskey, so we've got 10 years to go!
> 
> ...



NDPs do both, or something in between. Some buy new distillate and age it themselves, some buy barrels of already aged whiskey and bottle it, sometimes they buy barrels and keep aging them. 

It is common in scotch as well, but they tell you where it is coming from. The issue in American whiskey is that the people who make the stuff initially don't want you to know they sold some to the guy down the street. And the guy bottling it doesn't want you to know he didn't make it because then his "family recipe" story and label don't make sense. 

Take Templeton rye for example. Based on the design and claims on the label, you would think they are making it batch by batch in their bathtub, just like great-grandpa used to. Instead they buy already aged but very young rye from MGP in Indiana, water it down as much as legally possible (80 proof), _send it out to get flavored_, then bottle and charge nearly as much as two bottles of Rittenhouse Rye BIB.


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## Bill13 (Jul 13, 2015)

JohnnyChance said:


> NDPs do both, or something in between. Some buy new distillate and age it themselves, some buy barrels of already aged whiskey and bottle it, sometimes they buy barrels and keep aging them.
> 
> It is common in scotch as well, but they tell you where it is coming from. The issue in American whiskey is that the people who make the stuff initially don't want you to know they sold some to the guy down the street. And the guy bottling it doesn't want you to know he didn't make it because then his "family recipe" story and label don't make sense.
> 
> Take Templeton rye for example. Based on the design and claims on the label, you would think they are making it batch by batch in their bathtub, just like great-grandpa used to. Instead they buy already aged but very young rye from MGP in Indiana, water it down as much as legally possible (80 proof), _send it out to get flavored_, then bottle and charge nearly as much as two bottles of Rittenhouse Rye BIB.



I keep thinking back to wine because that is what I am more familiar with, but often times the boutique wineries especially in poor economic times (like the last 8 years!) can't sell out their wine, and are unwilling to lower their prices so they will sell the unneeded wine on the side to another winemaker who promises not to reveal the source. They will also get the word out among other wineries and offer their leftover wine at a discount to those in industry. Napa and Sonoma wineries and their employees are pretty intertwined.

I'm going to be trying out some of your rye recommendations:biggrin:.


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