# Hiromoto AS



## Keith Sinclair (May 5, 2013)

Seem to have read somewhere that the AS knives might end.Just wanted to add my :2cents:I was one of those guys that prefer mono steel carbons over San Mai.About 7 yrs. ago my Masamoto carbon petty walked.Got the 150 Hiro petty,changed my tune,what a great workhorse knife.Don't know how many shrimp butterfly thru the shell wt that blade.

Was making shrimp for dinner few people,using a VG-10 damascus,switched over to the Hiro petty,what a difference,up to speed wt. that good core steel.Noticed these knives are running out.Thinking about picking up a 240,thin it & put on a curly Koa handle.


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## GlassEye (May 6, 2013)

I hope these aren't going to be to be discontinued, I never got around to buying one and I really should't be buying any more knives right now.


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## turbochef422 (May 6, 2013)

Got the suji as with Dave performance package. I love it and couldn't see myself letting go. Get one while you can


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## rdpx (May 6, 2013)

this was email I got from Koki when I asked about the AS sujis last week or so....

_Thank you very much for your new inquiry and interest.

We apologize for the availability of Hiromoto Aogami Super TJ-90AS Sujihiki 270mm.

Maker Hiromoto used to make Sujihiki knives in Aogami Super Series. But they already discontinued the Sujihiki items and Sujihiki items got completely sold out and out of stock before.

Mr. Nagao (President of Hiromoto company) is 75 years old. He is going to get retired in near future. Maker Hiromoto is already discontinuing some models (such as TJ-50AS Petty 120mm, TJ-40AS Santoku160mm. Once current inventory of TJ-50AS will be out of stock, this item will be completely discontinued. TJ-40AS Santoku 160mm already got completely out of stock.

We apologize again for the availability and situation of Hiromoto Aogami Super Sujihiki knives.
_


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## ThEoRy (May 6, 2013)

turbochef422 said:


> Got the suji as with Dave performance package. I love it and couldn't see myself letting go. Get one while you can



I know geez, I can't afford it either right now but I had to pull the trigger on a 240 gyuto and a 150 petty. Put it on the credit card just to be safe. I'd rather get em now while I can and rehandle em as opposed to hoping some used ones come down the pipe later on. Oh well better safe than sorry I suppose.


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## marc4pt0 (May 6, 2013)

funny, thought the same also and got a 240. Amazing how I can rationalize this stuff. And I hear the 240 will be around for a while longer production-wise, but still didn't want to take a chance. Got it in the mail last Saturday. Not too shabby!


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## GlassEye (May 6, 2013)

I really shouldn't have, but I just ordered a 270 gyuto and 120 petty.


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## rdmalak (May 6, 2013)

Do these knives need to be thinned or is it personal preference?


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## ThEoRy (May 7, 2013)

I feel the gyuto is a much better performer thinned. I can't speak for the unthinned suji as I've only used it thinned and it's a fantastic slicer. As for the petty I've only used it unthinned and thought it was pretty great as it were.


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## apicius9 (May 7, 2013)

Mmhh, just sold my petty, maybe I shouldn't have... I still think they are an excellent value.

Stefan


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## Benuser (May 7, 2013)

rdmalak said:


> Do these knives need to be thinned or is it personal preference?


They are excellent blades out of box. However, the thickening behind the edge might be abrupt. The clad's thickness may vary. It's important to thin behind the edge at every sharpening session, and remove a little of the clad on both sides.


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## ThEoRy (May 7, 2013)

From Koki:

Dear Rick T.

Thank you very much for shopping with us and your message.


Mr. Nagao (President of Hiromoto company) is 75 years old. He has great experience of knife making, and he is especially concentrating for making the sharp and practical knives.



We really regret Mr. Nagao does not have son or young craftsmen who can continue making fine knives and continue his knife making business. 
Therefore recently Mr. Nagao is discontinuing several items from the regular selections. (For example, Hiromoto Aogami Super Sujihiki, Wa Gyuto, Wa Sujihiki, Wa Santoku 160mm, Petty 120mm (TJ-50AS will be discontinued when this item will be out of stock), and reducing his business now. Mr. 
Nagao loves the knife making, therefore he would like to continue making the knives as much as he can. But because of his ages, he also needs to prepare for the retirements too. (He can not be sure how many years he can continue working and making the knives)

We hope your Hiromoto Special Aogami Super knives will be your great cooking partner, you will enjoy your cooking time more in future.

Thank you very much again for shopping with us and your confirmation.

Have a great cooking time !!

Best Regards

Koki Iwahara
JapanseChefsKnife.Com


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## rdm_magic (May 7, 2013)

ThEoRy said:


> From Koki:
> 
> Dear Rick T.
> 
> ...



Hands up..


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## Keith Sinclair (May 7, 2013)

apicius9 said:


> Mmhh, just sold my petty, maybe I shouldn't have... I still think they are an excellent value.
> 
> Stefan


 I just ordered the 240,Steph did the box of wood come back yet fr. being stabilized?


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## Keith Sinclair (May 7, 2013)

ThEoRy said:


> I know geez, I can't afford it either right now but I had to pull the trigger on a 240 gyuto and a 150 petty. Put it on the credit card just to be safe. I'd rather get em now while I can and rehandle em as opposed to hoping some used ones come down the pipe later on. Oh well better safe than sorry I suppose.



Go for it.I think you will like the 150 petty,esp. useful in tight spaces,like on the line,a compact serious:knife: cutter


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## Sambal (May 7, 2013)

ThEoRy said:


> From Koki:
> 
> Therefore recently Mr. Nagao is discontinuing several items from the regular selections. (For example, Hiromoto Aogami Super Sujihiki, Wa Gyuto, Wa Sujihiki, Wa Santoku 160mm, Petty 120mm (TJ-50AS will be discontinued when this item will be out of stock), and reducing his business now.
> Koki Iwahara
> JapanseChefsKnife.Com




Is there a Wa Gyuto available from Hiromoto? Where from?


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## labor of love (May 7, 2013)

Hiromoto Wa handle gyutos and sujis have been discontinued for sometime now i believe...if youre lucky you might find some back stock somewhere...i know JCK had a few remaining sujis not too long ago...


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## joetbn (May 8, 2013)

Crap, I was planing to get a 270 Suji and having it re-handled & etched as soon as my 240 Guyto is back from The Martell Knife Spa. I see these as being hot and pricey items on BST soon. Anyone have any idea where to find one? Seems JCK is out, even that other place is out.
:sad0:


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## RobinW (May 8, 2013)

Anybody do a Wa-conversion on a 240 gyuto? Opinions?


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## Mike9 (May 8, 2013)

Conversion would be hard on these. I did a half conversion and it damned near wore my band saw blade out not to mention it ate a brand new file for a snack. 

I love my Hiro AS 270 Gyuto - I want the blade to look like Dave's . . . . the cutting edge is bluing nicely, but needs to get that Mandelbrot/coastline look.


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## mkmk (May 8, 2013)

Mike, how do you like the 270? Heftier all around than most 240s, or just a bit longer? 270s can often go either way, it seems.


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## rdm_magic (May 8, 2013)

Can someone tell me what it is about these that make them so special?

The profile, the alloy, a combination or what?


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## cclin (May 8, 2013)

rdm_magic said:


> Can someone tell me what it is about these that make them so special?
> 
> The profile, the alloy, a combination or what?



very good value for Aogami Super knife, nice F/F! killing look & nice cutting performance with Dave's re-handle+"performance package"


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## rdm_magic (May 8, 2013)

Whats it like without the special treatment from Dave?


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## Mike9 (May 8, 2013)

mkmk said:


> Mike, how do you like the 270? Heftier all around than most 240s, or just a bit longer? 270s can often go either way, it seems.



I have the board room for a 270 otherwise I'd still be using 240's. Not really heftier as we're only talking a smidge over an inch in length. There is noticeable difference in balance, stroke, etc, but weight is not an issue. I find the profile on 270 knives sleeker than 240 knives - just an observation.


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## daddy yo yo (May 9, 2013)

cclin said:


> very good value for Aogami Super knife, *nice F/F*! killing look & nice cutting performance with Dave's re-handle+"performance package"


got the 190mm santoku for christmas from my sister... to be honest, i had to buy it from her for the value of EUR 0,01 as giving and taking knives as presents brings bad luck. superstition maybe, but hey, i found this knife a great value for EUR 0,01! :wink:

as far as F&F is concerned, i think i will have to object, your honor. please do not get me wrong, i like the knife itself. but still it has a) this very obvious mass production aura, and b) F&F on the factory handle simply aren't very nice. i have seen worse, but the transition from wooden handle to metal bolster/tang isn't smooth on my knife. when i compare it to the other knives i have had and still have, this is probably the most disappointing handle i have seen (and it is very small). but as i always try to see the good side in things: this makes it the perfect excuse for having it rehandled!!! :hungry:

received my 240mm dragon on tuesday, and boy, speaking of nice F&F, i have to mention this monster!!! :thumbsup:


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## Benuser (May 9, 2013)

I've to most respectfully disagree about that 'mass production aura'. May be I'm lacking the necessary kind of sensitivity, but the Hiromotos have nothing to do with mass production. Rather small batches, some differences between the batches, good geometry, fair edges OOTB, not exactly signs of any 'mass production'.
I agree about the handle problem: the wood is far less stabilized than one would like, and too small for some. If you go just for performance and don't care too much about F&F, though, they are excellent value.
The Misono tend to have very beautiful handles, but until recently there was a huge price gap between both. No fair comparison.
Be happy with both of them, so am I.


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## jared08 (May 9, 2013)

how does the AS in the hiromoto compare to the swedish carbon in a dragon?


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## Benuser (May 9, 2013)

jared08 said:


> how does the AS in the hiromoto compare to the swedish carbon in a dragon?


The AS in the Hiromoto isn't hardened in excess, Rc61-62, so it isn't too chippy once you got rid of the original edge. Takes and holds a crazy edge. Whatever the edge is, it will have a lot of bite - will have to do with the tungsten carbides, I guess. Best results if you start sharpening with a relatively coarse stone. Needs a careful deburring.
The Swedish Carbon is a different animal. Very finely grained, very, very easy sharpening, takes a very keen edge but has only average edge retention. Good candidate for a single microbevel à la Jon Broida. 
Comes OOTB with a nicely polished but overly convexed edge. A good reason to shop with Korin and ask for the 'initial sharpening' option.


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## cclin (May 9, 2013)

jared08 said:


> how does the AS in the hiromoto compare to the swedish carbon in a dragon?



Hiromoto is san-mai construction blade, feel more stiff & solid, Aogami Super steel can take crazy keen edge with superior edge retention!! AS steel feel more aggressive toothy edge than swedish carbon steel. Misono feels light, has some flex highly polished convexed edge & sharpen more easily than Hiromoto AS....in general speaking, Aogami Super is higher grade & more expensive steel than swedish steel in Japan.


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## jared08 (May 9, 2013)

Benuser said:


> The AS in the Hiromoto isn't hardened in excess, Rc61-62, so it isn't too chippy once you got rid of the original edge. Takes and holds a crazy edge. Whatever the edge is, it will have a lot of bite - will have to do with the tungsten carbides, I guess. Best results if you start sharpening with a relatively coarse stone. Needs a careful deburring.
> The Swedish Carbon is a different animal. Very finely grained, very, very easy sharpening, takes a very keen edge but has only average edge retention. Good candidate for a single microbevel à la Jon Broida.
> Comes OOTB with a nicely polished but overly convexed edge. A good reason to shop with Korin and ask for the 'initial sharpening' option.



I have gyutos in white #2 and blue #2.. Would i be wrong in taking what you say as just taking these two steels and enhancing their strong points a fair bit more? I enjoy each one in their respectful ways, but they are quite different to work with.


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## Benuser (May 9, 2013)

I can't compare to blades I don't know. Speaking in general terms about steel types doesn't make so much sense IMHO, as the HT is mostly a decisive factor.


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## jared08 (May 9, 2013)

well the white is a cheap tojiro itk with a less than perfect HT i can assume. Blue is a Watanabe. I didnt know HT was much more of a factor than setting hardness, much to learn ill admit.. I feel as if this has gotten too far off the original topic.


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## rdpx (May 10, 2013)

jared08 said:


> I feel as if this has gotten too far off the original topic.



It wouldn't be the first time...


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## Benuser (May 10, 2013)

jared08 said:


> I didnt know HT was much more of a factor than setting hardness


HT will determine hardness, strength, toughness, ductility, grain size, carbide size and distribution...
These properties have practical consequences for e.g. ease of sharpening, potential refinement, brittleness, edge retention, bite.


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## rdmalak (May 24, 2013)

Well I broke down and bought a 240 Gyuto. Going to thin it, put a nice handle on it and use the heck out of it!


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