# Knife recommendation for trimming meat?



## dannynyc (Mar 17, 2014)

For years I've used a Wusthof boning knife to trim the fat of steaks and such. Though I've always kind of hated using a knife that can't get very sharp, it is somewhat flexible and as such has been appropriate for the task. That knife has now finally bent beyond repair, and I'd love to replace it with something better. I have a nice petty (Kono HD 150mm) that can do the task, but I'm nervous using it for this as the last thing I want is for it also to get bent. Any recommendations for a good, somewhat flexible, knife suited to this task? Wa handle preferred but not necessary.


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## The Anti-Chrysler (Mar 17, 2014)

Trim fat off steak? What the heck for?  Seriously though, I use a honesuki or a paring knife if trimming individual steaks.


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## berko (Mar 17, 2014)

150 petty or honesuki


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## dannynyc (Mar 17, 2014)

berko said:


> 150 petty or honesuki



As I mentioned, I have a 150 petty, but it wasn't designed to be flexed, and I don't want to risk bending it. I've never used a honesuki, but I had the impression that they were generally pretty stiff. Any specific recommendations for a knife made to flex a bit?


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## rdm_magic (Mar 17, 2014)

If you're worried, pick up a cheap 150mm maybe?


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## Benuser (Mar 17, 2014)

Stick with the désosseur but get a carbon steel one instead of the Wüsthof.

http://www.sabatier-k.com/couteaux-...-au-carbone_desosser-13-cm__carbdes13pol.html


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## Namaxy (Mar 17, 2014)

I use a Sabatier carbon 6" fish knife for exactly this purpose. What they list as a filleting knife, or 15cm Filet de Sole.

It has a fair amount of flex and gets very sharp. They of course make a specific boning knife, as many do, but it's very stiff. I like the flex of the fillet knife, particularly for things like frenching small racks like lamb.


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## Benuser (Mar 17, 2014)

The European désosseur has some flex, just as the Danny's Wüsthof, just because it's thin at the spine. Honesukis are very stiff indeed. All will depend on the amount of flex you're looking for. I find the filet knife a little too flexible and harder to sharpen because of that.


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## dannynyc (Mar 17, 2014)

Just noticed that he who may not be named has a boning knife in AEB-L. May consider.


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## ThEoRy (Mar 17, 2014)

I never understand the flex thing. It doesn't in anyway help me to debone or remove silverskin. I can see it useful on fish filleting but that's about it. Just get a Tojiro DP Gokujo if you want a familiar profile or get a honesuki if you want to try something new.


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## berko (Mar 17, 2014)

> I never understand the flex thing. It doesn't in anyway help me to debone or remove silverskin.


 +1

what meat are we talkin about?


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## dannynyc (Mar 17, 2014)

berko said:


> +1
> 
> what meat are we talkin about?



As before, the answer is in the post.


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## ThEoRy (Mar 17, 2014)

It just says,"Fat of steaks and stuff". If you are talking about strips, ribeye, trimming pismos, pork chops, pork tenders, skirt, flank, hanger blah blah blah. Tojiro Gokujo. Not flexible but it works great on all these things and more.


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## daveb (Mar 17, 2014)

I like a pretty robust (very little flex) 180 Petty for trimming meat, i.e. trimming fat, silverskin, seperating muscle groups. Little short for portioning but can be done. Mine's a Marko, Heiji and Kato make some good looking offerings. Thin, flexible knives don't work for me here.


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## brainsausage (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm with Rick and Dave regarding the lack of flex. A rigid knife gives you far more control. I've been using a 150 Kono W2 petty for years now to do everything from frenching, to hangers, pork loin, etc. if you're worried about bending, you may want to focus more on your technique.


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## Namaxy (Mar 17, 2014)

ThEoRy said:


> It just says,"Fat of steaks and stuff". If you are talking about strips, ribeye, trimming pismos, pork chops, pork tenders, skirt, flank, hanger blah blah blah. Tojiro Gokujo. Not flexible but it works great on all these things and more.



Reading your reply, I wouldn't use a flexible blade for this either. For whatever reason, I do like flex for separating racks from spines, breasts from keel bones, frenching small racks etc. Just my non pro 2 cents.


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## dannynyc (Mar 17, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I'll reconsider my needs. Maybe my petty is the right knife after all.


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## labor of love (Mar 17, 2014)

I maybe practically alone here in my thinking, but unless you can find a really narrow petty i dont find it to be a very good substitute for a boning knife. Atleast for tasks such as trimming fat, silver skin, etc etc....that being said i did enjoy using my old zakuri petty for precisely this task because it was so freakin narrow. Just be careful of which petty you choose if you indeed buy a new one, because a lot of pettys are shaped almost like mini gyutos and that shape isnt good when you need to get into tight, small places which is common with a lot of butchery.


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## insomniac (Mar 17, 2014)

dannynyc said:


> Thanks everyone. I'll reconsider my needs. Maybe my petty is the right knife after all.



You could consider a honesuki maru if fragility of honesuki kaku concerns you. It's not flexible but beefier than a petty or kaku

Seems to be called hankotsu at some online retailers


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## Dardeau (Mar 17, 2014)

Filleting Knife: 5 Inch (12.7 cm) Blade PN: CR25CIIHO
Price: $55.00

Qty: 
View larger photo

5 inch (12.7 cm) 15 gauge (1.8 mm) Filleting Knife  With a thin, long and narrow flexible blade this knife is perfect for removing the bones and skin from fish, meat and poultry. The shape and flexibility allow the blade to fit itself to whatever you cut. The length and width of the blade make it perfect for coring peppers, tomatoes and many other fruits and vegetables - and slicing them too! This knife is perfect for cutting and trimming fat, removing fruit and vegetable stems, filleting chicken breasts or making cutlets. Please see our "Knife Care" page on how to maintain your Murphy Knives.

I can't get the photo to link, but this is my favorite boning knife by far. It has just the tiniest amount of flex, has a huge handle, and gets really sharp and stays that way. Their shellfish knives suck, but this is a keeper.


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## Dardeau (Mar 17, 2014)

Also it's carbon but not overly reactive.


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## labor of love (Mar 17, 2014)

http://www.rmurphyknives.com/store/cooking-knives.html#
The knife on the bottom left? Only $25? Not bad.


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## Dardeau (Mar 17, 2014)

I have the 55 dollar version, but yeah, thats the one. It is seriously a great knife.


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## mr drinky (Mar 17, 2014)

More and more I use a honesuki. The only one I have is made by Adam Marr, and I love it. 

k.


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## Bill13 (Mar 18, 2014)

I have been coveting one of Phil's knives for years but haven't pulled the trigger so I can not comment from personal use. http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/gallery.htm


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## dannynyc (Mar 18, 2014)

mr drinky said:


> More and more I use a honesuki. The only one I have is made by Adam Marr, and I love it.
> 
> k.



Honesuki users: have you found them to be useful for working with removing fat and silverskin from beef and pork, and not just for taking apart chickens?


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## panda (Mar 18, 2014)

I've always used a semiflexible wustie "euro" utility but that Murphy carbon one for $30 looks pretty sweet!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005MGKA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## ThEoRy (Mar 18, 2014)

dannynyc said:


> Honesuki users: have you found them to be useful for working with removing fat and silverskin from beef and pork, and not just for taking apart chickens?



It's the only shape I use for triming tenders. Highly effective.


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## berko (Mar 18, 2014)

> Honesuki users: have you found them to be useful for working with removing fat and silverskin from beef and pork, and not just for taking apart chickens?



beef, pork, birds, lamb, rabbit, deer... works great for me. the tojiro dp honesuki is probably the best value i have bought.


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## ThEoRy (Mar 18, 2014)

I basically use two boning knives. Hankotsu for boning out strips and frenching racks. Honesuki for everything else.


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## aaamax (Mar 19, 2014)

The best excuse for me to bust out the old 180 Tadatsuna petty in white. A touch of flex and damn what a silverskin bugger-upper.


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## Salty dog (Mar 19, 2014)

This is where Rick and I disagree.I hated the honkotsu I sold him. (Glad to see it's getting use) And I'm not a honosuki fan. Too many years with a traditional boner I guess. So as a result I use a western handled stainless Tojiro boning knife. It OK, it gets sharp but dulls relatively quick. 

Still the only knife I'm in the market for. A custom boner.


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## cookinstuff (Mar 19, 2014)

I agree with Salty, I snapped my Mac boning knife maybe 2 years ago, I had the Misono hankotsu swedish before I broke my Mac. But, I still continued to use it, I was disappointed with the hankotsu, now I am used to it though. I am waiting for Michael Rader to give me a call, and hopefully it will do the business.


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## Salty dog (Mar 19, 2014)

Yeah, I could go for a Rader boning knife. Or several of the makers here. Western handle please. Six inch blade. No bite on the heel.


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## Chuckles (Mar 20, 2014)

I don't have one but this knife has been catching my eye for this use. Looks like a handy petty to have around.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/western-itinomonn-kasumi-180mm-petty-bog-oak/


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## ThEoRy (Mar 20, 2014)

Salty dog said:


> This is where Rick and I disagree.I hated the honkotsu I sold him. (Glad to see it's getting use) And I'm not a honosuki fan. Too many years with a traditional boner I guess. So as a result I use a western handled stainless Tojiro boning knife. It OK, it gets sharp but dulls relatively quick.
> 
> Still the only knife I'm in the market for. A custom boner.




I do like that Gokujo too. Cheap but effective.


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## Arty (Mar 20, 2014)

I am surprised to hear the Tojiro Gokujo dulls fast, since VG10 seems to be decent in general. How was the edge angle done?


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## dannynyc (Mar 20, 2014)

Arty said:


> I am surprised to hear the Tojiro Gokujo dulls fast, since VG10 seems to be decent in general. How was the edge angle done?



IMHO it's a a stretch to call VG-10 "decent" -- at most I'd put it at the bottom of the "decent steels" category. There are many superior stainless steels, including AEB-L, Swedish, etc.


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 20, 2014)

dannynyc said:


> IMHO it's a a stretch to call VG-10 "decent" -- at most I'd put it at the bottom of the "decent steels" category. There are many superior stainless steels, including AEB-L, Swedish, etc.



Pure conjecture. It's all about the skill of the smith/metallurgist working with the steel.

It's nonsense like this that fuels the "steel hype" bandwagon.


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## dannynyc (Mar 20, 2014)

Timthebeaver said:


> Pure conjecture. It's all about the heat treat.


Maybe. I had a Masamoto VG-10 gyuto for a while, and I didn't think much of it. Didn't get all that sharp, not particularly easy to sharpen, so-so edge retention.


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 20, 2014)

Not that it's particularly relevant, but the Masamoto VG hasn't been made of VG-10 for a while.


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 20, 2014)

dannynyc said:


> Maybe. I had a Masamoto VG-10 gyuto for a while, and I didn't think much of it. Didn't get all that sharp, not particularly easy to sharpen, so-so edge retention.



I don't want to sound condescending, particularly as I'm not the greatest sharpener in the world - but if you can't get a VG-1 knife (RC 58/59) sharp, then it's your skill, not the steel that is the limiting factor.


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## dannynyc (Mar 20, 2014)

Timthebeaver said:


> I don't want to sound condescending, particularly as I'm not the greatest sharpener in the world - but if you can't get a VG-1 knife (RC 58/59) sharp, then it's your skill, not the steel that is the limiting factor.


I would agree if I hadn't gotten many other knives razor sharp. Also, I felt like getting rid of burrs on VG-whatever was unnecessarily onerous.


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 20, 2014)

Fair enough. Perhaps you got a lemon.


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## dannynyc (Mar 20, 2014)

Timthebeaver said:


> Fair enough. Perhaps you got a lemon.



I think the problem a lot of non-expert sharpeners (myself included) have with VG-10 (or similar VGs) is getting a wire edge. I too am not the greatest sharpener, and so this happened to me a lot. Haven't ever had that problem with semi-stainless, which is basically all I use these days.


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## Dave Kinogie (Mar 20, 2014)

Wouldn't a lot of it have to do with the heat treat and the grinds as well?

Such as why at least in my experience and the similar experience of others I have read on here, Tojiro DP's are reasonably easy to sharpen yet Shun Classics which are also VG-10 can be a PITA?


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 20, 2014)

Yes. It comes down to the skill of the smith/metallurgist who is working the steel.

That's why "Steel X is great, Steel Y is inferior" doesn't work when discussing quality cutlery steels (of which there are literally hundreds).


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## Noodle Soup (Mar 20, 2014)

Between Victorinox and F. Dick, you can find a boning knife with every degree of flex and/or curve you could ever desire. And these two companies own the vast majority of the professional meat cutter trade. I use both with excellent results.


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## panda (Mar 20, 2014)

Tojiro vg10 I feel is vastly superior to AEBL and any other run of the mill stainless save for ginsanko. Masahiro's stainless from mvh line is almost as good. but this is way off topic.

So has anybody else picked up one of these carbon boning knives from Murphy's? I am eyeing the 6" $30 one without that protrusion at the heel. They look like it could be rebranded old stock old hickory stuff.


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## Dardeau (Mar 20, 2014)

There are two lines on the Murphy knives, a professional and the stay sharp II or something like that. There is a filet knife from the cheaper line floating around work that is garbage. It opens boxes and olive oil cans. Their oyster knives are also garbage. 

I have the 5" boning knife and an 8" bullnose from the pro line and they are both solid. The bullnose is nothing to write home about but the boner is awesome. I boned a case worth of chicken thighs with mine today. It takes a really good toothy edge from a medium grit stone and keeps it for a long time. Also the handle is huge, unlike most boners. Spend the $55 for the pro line, I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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## Salty dog (Mar 20, 2014)

Um, for the uninitiated, boning a case of chicken thighs is a .....................


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## panda (Mar 20, 2014)

Right of passage for the sick and twisted which is like an unwritten prerequisite for cooks.


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## ShaggySean (Mar 21, 2014)

For all bombing and trimming jobs I use I Hankotsu and a rigid Kasumi boning knife I have never felt that flexibly was of any benefit the Kasumi is vg-10 and it gets sharp and holds its edge well


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## ShaggySean (Mar 21, 2014)

Boning. Auto correct sucks


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## Arty (Mar 21, 2014)

Dardeau said:


> There are two lines on the Murphy knives, a professional and the stay sharp II or something like that. There is a filet knife from the cheaper line floating around work that is garbage. It opens boxes and olive oil cans. Their oyster knives are also garbage.
> 
> I have the 5" boning knife and an 8" bullnose from the pro line and they are both solid. The bullnose is nothing to write home about but the boner is awesome. I boned a case worth of chicken thighs with mine today. It takes a really good toothy edge from a medium grit stone and keeps it for a long time. Also the handle is huge, unlike most boners. Spend the $55 for the pro line, I don't think you'll be disappointed.


Is this the carbon or stainless?


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## dannynyc (Mar 21, 2014)

Dardeau said:


> I have the 5" boning knife and an 8" bullnose from the pro line and they are both solid.


I had a hard time finding this on the website -- if you are aware of a link, would you be so kind as to post?


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## JDA_NC (Mar 21, 2014)

dannynyc said:


> I had a hard time finding this on the website -- if you are aware of a link, would you be so kind as to post?



Their site is a bit of a pain:

http://www.rmurphyknives.com/store/Cooking_Knives_Chefs_Select-ss2.html


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## dannynyc (Mar 21, 2014)

Dumb question here, but is there really much of a difference between a honesuki and relatively thin, stiff petty, other than what seems to the eye to be some pretty insignificant differences in geometry?


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## dannynyc (Mar 21, 2014)

JDA_NC said:


> Their site is a bit of a pain:
> 
> http://www.rmurphyknives.com/store/Cooking_Knives_Chefs_Select-ss2.html



:thanx:


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## Dardeau (Mar 21, 2014)

Carbon, and it won't link from mobile, and I'm on my phone.


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 21, 2014)

dannynyc said:


> Dumb question here, but is there really much of a difference between a honesuki and relatively thin, stiff petty, other than what seems to the eye to be some pretty insignificant differences in geometry?



They are completely different. Petties are double bevel, and usually thin. Honesuki are a specialised poultry knife, much more mighty, highly asymmetric double bevel or sometimes true single bevel. Blade shape is typically very different too.


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## dannynyc (Mar 21, 2014)

Timthebeaver said:


> They are completely different. Petties are double bevel, and usually thin. Honesuki are a specialised poultry knife, much more mighty, highly asymmetric double bevel or sometimes true single bevel. Blade shape is typically very different too.



A handful of honesukis on the market (including Takeda) are 50/50 bevel, but these may not be true honesukis, perhaps making concessions to the Western market. Anyway, that's helpful, thanks.


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 21, 2014)

dannynyc said:


> A handful of honesukis on the market (including Takeda) are 50/50 bevel, but these may not be true honesukis, perhaps making concessions to the Western market. Anyway, that's helpful, thanks.



All of Takeda's knives are ryo-ba, even Yanagiba and Deba.

I think the Kochi honesuki is 50/50 too.

I had a Suisin Inox honesuki, didn't find it very useful to be honest. Even for chicken, I prefer a 150mm petty. I will readily admit this may be because my honesuki technique was sub par.


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## panda (Mar 25, 2014)

just ordered the murphy fillet knife.


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## Sherski (Mar 25, 2014)

What you need, is a BUBBA BLADE. I'm only joking. But I saw this and I was like, "How come I never saw this before!?"

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kurouchi-170mm-wa-butcher/


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## Dardeau (Mar 25, 2014)

I hope you like it! Like I said before there is a long flexi one floating around at work that is no good, and my 5" that is listed as flexi but isn't really that is great. I don't want to steer anybody into disappointment.


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## labor of love (Mar 25, 2014)

Youre definitely on to something with that knife dardeau. Ive been looking for an inexpensive carbon to replace my stainless Henkel boning for awhile now. I just didnt know where to look.


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## cheflarge (Mar 25, 2014)

For what it is worth, I cut meat professionally for about four years and have just about abandoned all my old Swiss & German butcher knives for a Gesshin Ginga, white #2, 210mm petty and frankly, can't see ever going "back."


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## panda (Mar 26, 2014)

yeah i shelled out for the $55 you insisted on, pretty excited for it to arrive. never used a carbon boning knife before, so it might be too sharp! lol. i will probably be using it most for frenching airlines.


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