# Masamoto KS or Toyama Noborikoi



## novo (Nov 8, 2015)

I was just about to order a Masamoto KS 240mm gyuto when i saw Toyama Noborikoi knives and they made me reconsider my purchase since then. Can you please help.me with this dilemma?
I just cannot decide but to be honest Toyama Nobodikoi gyuto looks more interesting now


----------



## labor of love (Nov 8, 2015)

Ive owned atleast 2 KS and one Toyama. Theyre very different knives and both have certain benefits. I much prefer the steel core in Toyama's but theyre heavier and thicker knives which could be a good thing if thats what your looking for. KS is great for detail oriented work/ finesse slicing and the thin tips on the KS is a real pleasure to work with. KS edge retention isnt too good but they sharpen up really quickly.


----------



## Rayuela (Nov 8, 2015)

Basically, the Toyama is a lovely knife and a great cutter, but there's minimal distal taper.


----------



## schanop (Nov 8, 2015)

I had one KS a long time ago when thin knife was still the rage on forums. Nowadays, medium thickness to thicker knives are my preferences as a home cook, so go Toyama. I have one and can say that it is a pretty darn good gyuto.


----------



## DamageInc (Nov 8, 2015)

I love both my Toyamas. Great edge retention, great f&f, not too reactive, and a nice convex grind that's very thin behind the edge, yet thick at the spine for a nice sturdy feel.

Another thing to consider is the blade height. Toyamas are very tall. Masamotos are medium.


----------



## brainsausage (Nov 9, 2015)

It's really a crap shoot with The KS nowadays regarding the grind. If you can find an old one from a trusted source, or a vendor that's willing to pick through their stock- it might be worth it. And I agree with Labor, the KS is a little more specialized. Whereas the Toyama is a better all around knife.


----------



## El Pescador (Nov 9, 2015)

I think that the profile on the KS is the best looking out there. But, as stated above, it's a really a crap shoot with what you get thickness-wise. Not a good choice for a pro kitchen either as it starts 4-5mms shorter.

But if you had to have one, I'd send it to Dave Martell to thin it out.

The Toyama is awesome knife out of the box. It would be my choice. It is taller an more of a Shigefusa profile. I really like this knife.

The knife you should be asking about is Shigehiro. Shorter and a profile in between a Toyama and a KS. This is the best knife in my rotation.


----------



## spoiledbroth (Nov 9, 2015)

It's funny that honmamon store ripped off shigehiro almost immediately. Wonder if they're legit.


----------



## Asteger (Nov 9, 2015)

I noticed another Shigehiro listing out there too. However, maybe it already existed? No rip off, I would say

Peering at it on my small mobile wirhout really being able to see, the kanji appear different. Shigehiro is also a pretty generic name and there's more than one way to spell it. About being legit, Japan isn't the land of knock off products either.


----------



## spoiledbroth (Nov 9, 2015)

It just seems incongruent with what Buttermilk says about the line, however, I suspect if there's a batch of knives that a particular vendor didn't want to purchase the smith is probably not going to just throw them in the trash...


----------



## Asteger (Nov 9, 2015)

spoiledbroth said:


> It just seems incongruent with what Buttermilk says about the line, however, I suspect if there's a batch of knives that a particular vendor didn't want to purchase the smith is probably not going to just throw them in the trash...



Nah, see above. Probably same-sounding name but diff kanji (so therefore not same name - but I'll have to take a closer look) and different maker


----------



## Asteger (Nov 9, 2015)

... On second thought, not so sure and my image is too small. Maybe another member could compare? (Shigehiro on Ratuken) I'm seeing &#37325;&#23439;. If so, would be at least a different much cheaper line, but still probably a diff maker


----------



## AllanP (Nov 9, 2015)

spoiledbroth said:


> It's funny that honmamon store ripped off shigehiro almost immediately. Wonder if they're legit.



Are you talking about the "shigehiro" knife on Rakuten, I'm pretty sure that's been there for ages and it's just their house rebrand of Tanaka knives and has probably nothing to do with Buttermilk's line.

we know they deal directly with Tanaka and the knives look exactly like Tanka vg-10 and Blue No.2's down to the handle and profile.

this is one of their "shigehiro" specials


----------



## spoiledbroth (Nov 9, 2015)

AllanP said:


> Are you talking about the "shigehiro" knife on Rakuten, I'm pretty sure that's been there for ages and it's just their house rebrand of Tanaka knives and has probably nothing to do with Buttermilk's line.
> 
> we know they deal directly with Tanaka and the knives look exactly like Tanka vg-10 and Blue No.2's down to the handle and profile.
> 
> this is one of their "shigehiro" specials


No, http://www.honmamon.jp/fs/honmamon/c/shigehiro though there is no link available to buy that I can find.


----------



## pjotr (Nov 9, 2015)

Shigehiro, the namesake of the series is the grinder, Yoshikazu Ikeda is the smith.


----------



## James (Nov 9, 2015)

spoiledbroth said:


> No, http://www.honmamon.jp/fs/honmamon/c/shigehiro though there is no link available to buy that I can find.



they've carried this line since at least mid 2012 fyi


----------



## spoiledbroth (Nov 9, 2015)

I had never seen honmamon on amazon or ebay until recently, though admittedly I had never bothered to browse rakuten in the past.


----------



## buttermilk (Nov 9, 2015)

Oh, hi! I didn't see this conversation happening over here. Shigehiro Kasahara, my maker, has nothing to do with any of the other "Shigehiro" knives. Shigehiro is Kasahara-san's given name and, as these knives are what he's most personally proud of, they're the only knives that bear his name. The first kanji of the Shigehiro engraving is Sakai, then Kasahara-san's name is written &#37325;&#24291;, then Made/Produced.


----------



## spoiledbroth (Nov 9, 2015)

Yeah, sorry I figured it out one of the contacts for honmamon is named shigehiro so I guess he's decided to name a few knives after himself. Buttermilk was not questioning you so much as the validitiy of the honmamon listing. Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## buttermilk (Nov 9, 2015)

Oh yeah, and different kanji.


----------



## buttermilk (Nov 9, 2015)

spoiledbroth said:


> Yeah, sorry I figured it out one of the contacts for honmamon is named shigehiro so I guess he's decided to name a few knives after himself. Buttermilk was not questioning you so much as the validitiy of the honmamon listing. Sorry for any confusion.



No apology needed! Nice detective work. I assumed this would happen at some point, and will likely happen again.


----------

