# Old Sabatier blanks - from hunks of steel to knives



## Carl Kotte (Jan 23, 2020)

So, after seeing @stringer posting pictures of a giant carbon Sabatier, me (and a couple of other guys I will not expose here) felt a need to get hold of some of those blanks too. And we managed to, thanks to one fantastic KKF member who will not be named (unless he wants to). Below you see pics of the blanks. They are rough unfinished blanks forgotten in a warehouse in the us (don’t ask for more details). They need grinding, heat treatment and handles. These 3 arrived about a week ago:













I’m not sure you can tell from the pictures but there’s a lot of steel to remove. The chef knives weigh about 500 gr each and they are about 3 mm at the edge. 
And that’s where dedication comes in. These are going to be great cutters.
I will share some pics from the process, start to finish. Those who have tamed these beasts before me, or are in the process of doing it, please feel free to contribute. It would be fun seeing the differences between the end results!


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## Caleb Cox (Jan 23, 2020)

Cool project! Do you plan to use any power tools or will these be hand ground?


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 23, 2020)

Caleb Cox said:


> Cool project! Do you plan to use any power tools or will these be hand ground?



Hand grinding only [emoji854]


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## Caleb Cox (Jan 23, 2020)

Oh wow, bless your soul, and fingers/hands/wrists/shoulders/etc!


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## stringer (Jan 23, 2020)

For what it's worth I never heat treated mine. And it holds an edge just fine. Although if I had to do it over again I might anneal it, grind it, re-heat treat. Grinding all that hardened steel with steel files and hand sanding was not fun. I have a belt sander now, but then you gotta be real careful not to overheat it. Anyways good luck.

Here's some inspiration. Looks like that was about a year ago when I finished. I bought it a year before that, lol.

Stringer WIP

Instagram pics
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs6EdWlBNZI/?igshid=s79ejrx4a0wr

Here's a more recent shot. Not pretty, but it fills a role that few Japanese knives can lay claim to.


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## Gregmega (Jan 23, 2020)

I had Fell finish a few for me, and one underway now with Graydon... check these babies out. 




Started as the full tang with bolster. Had him cut the lip at the heel and save the bolster, then heat treat them honyaki (or as he calls it, rainbow quench). African black wood.


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## Gregmega (Jan 23, 2020)

Here they were before work began:














And a pile of them at the forge:


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 23, 2020)

Caleb Cox said:


> Oh wow, bless your soul, and fingers/hands/wrists/shoulders/etc!



Thanks, I’ll need it [emoji23][emoji16]


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 23, 2020)

@Gregmega Wow! They look amazing! Knife beauty eye candy. How do they perform?

Also, I kind of regret requesting pictures now that I’ve seen yours. [emoji22] You raised the bar a bit.


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## lemeneid (Jan 23, 2020)

Amazing knives you guys have, makes me envious! 500g for a blank is a lot of metal to remove by hand, good luck there, you might break an atoma or two there just thinning it

I would definitely do what Greg did and get rid of that annoying full bolster too.


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## Gregmega (Jan 23, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @Gregmega Wow! They look amazing! Knife beauty eye candy. How do they perform?
> 
> Also, I kind of regret requesting pictures now that I’ve seen yours. [emoji22] You raised the bar a bit.



Ha! They’re great- he ground them really thin behind the edge and left all the heft in the spine. To be fair- I sought professional help- so don’t measure yourself against that!!


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## HRC_64 (Jan 23, 2020)

Profiles on all Sab's look amazing...!!! just saying


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## SeattleBen (Jan 23, 2020)

I have a petty and one of the full size and I've been scared of them for a year now. Now I'm more scared after the good lookers in here.


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 24, 2020)

HRC_64 said:


> Profiles on all Sab's look amazing...!!! just saying



The profiles are really cool. With the right amount of time, know-how and tools you can shape them in many different ways. I like the flexibility of it [emoji16]


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 24, 2020)

SeattleBen said:


> I have a petty and one of the full size and I've been scared of them for a year now. Now I'm more scared after the good lookers in here.



Haha, why scared? The amount of work? The sweet reward of a sharp gentle giant or petty petty?


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## childermass (Jan 24, 2020)

Mine still rests in my project drawer, let’s see when I find the time.
@Gregmega Great idea to cut the lip at the heel, I was already thinking about how to handle this and this seems to be the way to go.


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## SeattleBen (Jan 24, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Haha, why scared? The amount of work? The sweet reward of a sharp gentle giant or petty petty?




The work and mess. I live in an apartment where my workspace such as it is, is shared with my wife. The amount of time on a 140 or coarser is daunting, more so is the "what's that awful noise??", queries coming every few minutes. Recently though my wife found out that we might have access to a forge and belt sander, albeit over an hours drive from us. So I might take it up and the pics of these project knives are inspirational.


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 24, 2020)

SeattleBen said:


> The work and mess. I live in an apartment where my workspace such as it is, is shared with my wife. The amount of time on a 140 or coarser is daunting, more so is the "what's that awful noise??", queries coming every few minutes. Recently though my wife found out that we might have access to a forge and belt sander, albeit over an hours drive from us. So I might take it up and the pics of these project knives are inspirational.



I hear you (and our loved ones hear us). I’m doing this at home, with wife and kids, in a small apartment. So power tools are out of the question due to noise and mess anyway. But time is on my side. Or not even that. [emoji16]


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## SeattleBen (Jan 24, 2020)

She's fine with the noise in general but doesn't really love the sound of the really coarse stuff.


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## Caleb Cox (Jan 24, 2020)

The yelping of a file is always a big hit too!


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## inferno (Jan 25, 2020)

it would be wise to re-ht these i think. and then you can use powertools at high rpm too. without ruining any temper. its probably close to 1095 i'd guess.


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 26, 2020)

inferno said:


> it would be wise to re-ht these i think. and then you can use powertools at high rpm too. without ruining any temper. its probably close to 1095 i'd guess.



Thanks, I don’t think power tools is an option, sadly, but re-ht might very well be.


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## M1k3 (Jan 26, 2020)

inferno said:


> it would be wise to re-ht these i think. and then you can use powertools at high rpm too. without ruining any temper. its probably close to 1095 i'd guess.



It's pretty much 1075.


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 26, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> It's pretty much 1075.



Oh! Are you sure? If it is 1075, that would be very good to know. [emoji1303]


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## M1k3 (Jan 26, 2020)

XC75 is what I've seen it labeled as. Which is the same or ever so close to 1075.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/xc75.shtml


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 26, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> XC75 is what I've seen it labeled as. Which is the same or ever so close to 1075.
> 
> http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/xc75.shtml



Thanks!


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## M1k3 (Jan 26, 2020)

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/wip-custom-carbon-sabatier.5913/


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 26, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/wip-custom-carbon-sabatier.5913/



Oh, should have been more thorough when starting a new thread. Thanks again! Great old thread!


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## M1k3 (Jan 26, 2020)

You and that thread piqued my interest. Need to resist... for now..


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## kayman67 (Jan 26, 2020)

I have a side project with something similar. I guess about 10 knives. There's a lot of work unfortunately. Might take me a year. All manual labour.


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## Dendrobatez (Jan 26, 2020)

Very cool, I've been looking at these on ebay - might have to get a few for a project over then summer.


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## Gregmega (Jan 26, 2020)

This is the exact thread that inspired mine. (Devin’s)


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## childermass (Feb 5, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> XC75 is what I've seen it labeled as. Which is the same or ever so close to 1075.
> 
> http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/xc75.shtml



Seems about right compared to the xrf reading of that blade. Unfortunately carbon is missing here because the system wasn’t equipped to measure that but Mn content is really close.


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## Carl Kotte (Feb 8, 2020)

Update: this petty is starting to look like something. A little rough, but that’s ok.


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## childermass (Feb 8, 2020)

You got some help it seems.


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## Carl Kotte (Feb 8, 2020)

childermass said:


> You got some help it seems.



Always! Whether I want it or not. Who knows, this petty may come to serve as a baby wh eventually.


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## SeattleBen (Feb 8, 2020)

That pic with the hand couldn't be much cuter.


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## childermass (Feb 8, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Always! Whether I want it or not. Who knows, this petty may come to serve as a baby wh eventually.


Reminds me of my own nosy girl, always curious what daddy is doing.


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## Carl Kotte (Feb 8, 2020)

SeattleBen said:


> That pic with the hand couldn't be much cuter.



Maybe it’s time to start a new sub-forum: babies & toddlers with axes & gyutos?


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## Michi (Feb 8, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> babies & toddlers with axes & gyutos?


Cows with Guns and Chicken in Choppers!

The lyrics are worth listening to.


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## Gregmega (Feb 9, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Update: this petty is starting to look like something. A little rough, but that’s ok.
> View attachment 70890
> View attachment 70892
> View attachment 70893
> View attachment 70894



Great start!!


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 18, 2020)

Update! 
There’s a very talented knife maker in Sweden, known to (almost?!) everyone on the forum, who kindly agreed to help me out with the heat treatment of the blanks. When the same great guy offered to grind the blank, I couldn’t say no. (I think it took me 20 hours to remove 16 g of steel... I eventually figured that the work on the petty was enough for me as a challenge). Some things are best left to the pros. Here are some pictures of the process:



















At 64 HRC the big boy might be one of the hardest Sabatiers around today. I’m very very grateful. And I’m looking forward to doing the handles and put an edge on the blades.


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 18, 2020)

Oh, I’d better say that the talented knife maker is @RDalman. He’s not only a very skilled knife maker, he’s also very patient, generous and extremely funny. Thank you very much Robin!

P.s. Now that everyone knows that Dalman helped me out, I can flip this old Sabatier as a super rare Dalman/Carl Kotte collaboration (I doubt there will be more!) on bst for, let’s say, 1 million $$$$. [emoji39][emoji41][emoji39][emoji41][emoji39][emoji41][emoji39][emoji41][emoji39]


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## M1k3 (Mar 18, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Oh, I’d better say that the talented knife maker is @RDalman. He’s not only a very skilled knife maker, he’s also very patient, generous and extremely funny guy. Thank you very much Robin!
> 
> P.s. Now that everyone knows that Dalman helped me out, I can flip this old Sabatier as a super rare Dalman/Carl Kotte collaboration (I doubt there will be more!) for, let’s say, 1 million $$$$. [emoji39][emoji41][emoji39][emoji41][emoji39][emoji41][emoji39][emoji41][emoji39]



Beige handle or bust!


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 18, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Beige handle or bust!



Gold, diamonds and t-rex teeth, glued with hummus. Mini-maz has clazzzz


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## Gregmega (Mar 18, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Oh, I’d better say that the talented knife maker is @RDalman. He’s not only a very skilled knife maker, he’s also very patient, generous and extremely funny. Thank you very much Robin!
> 
> P.s. Now that everyone knows that Dalman helped me out, I can flip this old Sabatier as a super rare Dalman/Carl Kotte collaboration (I doubt there will be more!) on bst for, let’s say, 1 million $$$$. [emoji39][emoji41][emoji39][emoji41][emoji39][emoji41][emoji39][emoji41][emoji39]



On the next one do a honyaki!


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## SeattleBen (Mar 18, 2020)

That's awesome and super exciting. Very happy for you.


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 18, 2020)

SeattleBen said:


> That's awesome and super exciting. Very happy for you.



Thank you Ben! [emoji1545][emoji5]


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 18, 2020)

Gregmega said:


> On the next one do a honyaki!



Maybe I did [emoji848][emoji6]


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## M1k3 (Mar 19, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Maybe I did [emoji848][emoji6]



Full moon over Eiffel Tower?


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## holdmyphone (Mar 19, 2020)

Very cool to see those old Sabatiers getting a new lease on life. You've got a unique set of knives with tons of character now!


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## RDalman (Mar 19, 2020)

Gregmega said:


> On the next one do a honyaki!


The big ones was clayed for it, but didn't take hamon.


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## Gregmega (Mar 19, 2020)

RDalman said:


> The big ones was clayed for it, but didn't take hamon.



There’s always next time!


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 19, 2020)

Gregmega said:


> There’s always next time!



Not sure about that. (If there were it would totally spoil the exclusiveness of my knife and I wouldn’t be able to sell it for 1 mil $ [emoji33]).


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## Luftmensch (Mar 19, 2020)

Very cool...

I was so close to getting a blank... but all the 10" blanks are gone! Maybe for the best... 

Really nice to see your progress.


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 19, 2020)

SeattleBen said:


> That's awesome and super exciting. Very happy for you.



How are things going at your end? Will you have more time now because of the virus?


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 19, 2020)

holdmyphone said:


> Very cool to see those old Sabatiers getting a new lease on life. You've got a unique set of knives with tons of character now!



Thanks! I hope so! Can’t wait to start using it. [emoji39]


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 19, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Very cool...
> 
> I was so close to getting a blank... but all the 10" blanks are gone! Maybe for the best...
> 
> Really nice to see your progress.



Oh, that’s a shame. But yeah, maybe for the best. However, during quarantine...
And, although I wish I could, I really can’t take much credit for the progress. I’ve had so much help. [emoji5]


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## Luftmensch (Mar 19, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Oh, that’s a shame. But yeah, maybe for the best. However, during quarantine...
> And, although I wish I could, I really can’t take much credit for the progress. I’ve had so much help.



Oh I don't know... Creative director title? Youre pushing the project along! I look forward to seeing what handle choice you make...


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## RDalman (Mar 19, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Oh I don't know... Creative director title? Youre pushing the project along! I look forward to seeing what handle choice you make...


I heard he's good with hot dog buns.


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## Michi (Mar 19, 2020)

RDalman said:


> I heard he's good with hot dog buns.


Beige ones?


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## Michi (Mar 19, 2020)

Deleted duplicate post.


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 19, 2020)

RDalman said:


> I heard he's good with hot dog buns.



And this is why this collaboration will not survive more than one knife! [emoji35]


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## Luftmensch (Mar 19, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> I look forward to seeing what handle choice you make...





RDalman said:


> I heard he's good with hot dog buns.





Michi said:


> Beige ones?










I don't think I am looking forward to it anymore... 

(I've been part of team brown this week!)


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## Michi (Mar 19, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> (I've been part of team brown this week!)


Team Red has open positions, it seems.


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 19, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> View attachment 74391



This! All my handles look like that [emoji17]


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 27, 2020)

These guys arrived today. Once again, thank you @RDalman! It turned out the little one is only cute; it’s too soft to serve as a knife. I think I’ll make a handle for it anyway and use it as a butter knife. Now it’s time to get that sourdough working again... time to bake some pants.


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## childermass (Apr 27, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> These guys arrived today. Once again, thank you @RDalman! It turned out the little one is only cute; it’s too soft to serve as a knife. I think I’ll make a handle for it anyway and use it as a butter knife. Now it’s time to get that sourdough working again... time to bake some pants.



Wow these turned out great!
My blank went off to Robin today, I have finally admitted that I won’t be able to do this myself.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 27, 2020)

@childermass The sweet defeat! I hope Dalman loves working these blades.


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## childermass (Apr 27, 2020)

He didn’t say if he likes it but he agreed to do it without hesitation


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## RDalman (Apr 27, 2020)

childermass said:


> He didn’t say if he likes it but he agreed to do it without hesitation


Noone can see the tears pouring with sadness when I grind them in the spacesuit


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 27, 2020)

RDalman said:


> Noone can see the tears pouring with sadness when I grind them in the spacesuit


The tears of a clown


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## M1k3 (Apr 27, 2020)

RDalman said:


> Noone can see the tears pouring with sadness when I grind them in the spacesuit



The tears keep the blade from overheating


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## Gregmega (Apr 27, 2020)

Looks great man. It’ll be such a coup when the handles happen.

This was my last Sab rebuild- May have seen it on the new knife buy, but Andrew redid the blade, Graydon did the handle on the hidden tang, it came from Mert to my buddy Henk to me, and now a new lease on life. Andrew put the sickest grind in it. Feels like a Kato. So fat at the spine and whispers through at the tip. (Center)


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 28, 2020)

That just looks so good! @Gregmega I’ll go for something... less good looking


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## childermass (Apr 28, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> That just looks so good! @Gregmega I’ll go for something... less good looking



I‘m curious if you already have something specific in mind?


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 28, 2020)

childermass said:


> I‘m curious if you already have something specific in mind?


I think I do. Cherry scales and 3 brass rivets. Nothing too spectacular


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## valdim (Apr 28, 2020)

@Carl Kotte I am sure you will make a great knife from the heavy Sab. Fingers crossed for your project.


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## childermass (Apr 28, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> I think I do. Cherry scales and 3 brass rivets. Nothing too spectacular



great choice, I really like the look of cherry wood.
I‘m still thinking about which to pick but I have a nice block of highly figured olive wood that I always wanted to use.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 28, 2020)

Thank you very much @valdim. I think you’re right actually! I’m very optimistic now.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 28, 2020)

childermass said:


> great choice, I really like the look of cherry wood.
> I‘m still thinking about which to pick but I have a nice block of highly figured olive wood that I always wanted to use.


Yeah I think it will look good. Thought about birch, but the pieces I have are too small. Olive is so nice! That will look very good.
Not sure yet if I’m going to go for imitating classical Sabatier scales or if I’m going for something simpler (and easier).


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## childermass (Apr 28, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Yeah I think it will look good. Thought about birch, but the pieces I have are too small. Olive is so nice! That will look very good.
> Not sure yet if I’m going to go for imitating classical Sabatier scales or if I’m going for something simpler (and easier).



Masur birch would be nice too.
Could you show me how classical Sabatier scales look? I honestly have no idea and am very curious.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 28, 2020)

childermass said:


> Masur birch would be nice too.
> Could you show me how classical Sabatier scales look? I honestly have no idea and am very curious.


Maybe I said something misleading, but I had thesehttps://www.sabatier-shop.com/gift-box-small-block-6-pieces.html in mind. They are sometimes made in wood these days, but far from always. I’ll see if I can take a pic later to show you more details.


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## childermass (Apr 28, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> I’ll see if I can take a pic later to show you more details.



that would be great, thank you


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## RDalman (Apr 28, 2020)

Trad I would think ebony? I would actually advice you guys to go for something hard as it's easier to finish more flush with the steel when inexperienced.


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## childermass (Apr 28, 2020)

RDalman said:


> I would actually advice you guys to go for something hard as it's easier to finish more flush with the steel when inexperienced.


That’s what I thought too. I guess the olive will be great for this.


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## Gregmega (Apr 28, 2020)

I don’t recall who was looking- but I think I can still get a couple of the larger gyuto blanks if anyone is into a project. I’ll have to peak around. Ever since I saw Devin’s rehab I’ve been obsessed with these transformations.


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## Gregmega (Apr 28, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> That just looks so good! @Gregmega I’ll go for something... less good looking


Hahahah I’m sure it will be super cool. I realized very early that I needed pros- I’d just destroy a beautiful thing if I tried


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## Barmoley (Apr 28, 2020)

Do these come fully hardened. I remember reading somewhere that at least some had to be re-hardened as they were too soft. Greg's is super cool looking.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 28, 2020)

Barmoley said:


> Do these come fully hardened. I remember reading somewhere that at least some had to be re-hardened as they were too soft. Greg's is super cool looking.


@RDalman can probably answer that. He worked his magic, but a preliminary answer is yes. They were soft, and they were re-hardened. Notice that the petty couldn’t be hardened. Not sure about the details as to why. I leave that to the experts.


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## RDalman (Apr 28, 2020)

Barmoley said:


> Do these come fully hardened. I remember reading somewhere that at least some had to be re-hardened as they were too soft. Greg's is super cool looking.


They come hard-ish I bet like airhardened from as drop forged. I can measure the next one before annealing it. So really working order on them should be, anneal-rough grind or file work-hardening.


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## Barmoley (Apr 28, 2020)

Definitely sounds like a job for a pro.


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## Gregmega (Apr 28, 2020)

Barmoley said:


> Do these come fully hardened. I remember reading somewhere that at least some had to be re-hardened as they were too soft. Greg's is super cool looking.


These blanks were all just drop-forged (not tempered yet) so from here I believe they were ground to shape and then hung on racks by the holes in the handles. They moved through furnaces with literally hundreds hanging on these racks and then were water quenched en masse. The stories vary somewhat so I can’t be 100%, but this much I have heard to be true. I’ll see if I can find a picture or vid that I saw somewhere. Pretty nerdy stuff I know, but it’s really the rabbit I chased down the hole til I got an ashi if you can believe it.


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## Gregmega (Apr 28, 2020)

RDalman said:


> They come hard-ish I bet like airhardened from as drop forged. I can measure the next one before annealing it. So really working order on them should be, anneal-rough grind or file work-hardening.


I’d love to know what hrc they’re sitting at. I’ll ask Fell, maybe he tested them as well.


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## Barmoley (Apr 28, 2020)

Gregmega said:


> These blanks were all just drop-forged (not tempered yet) so from here I believe they were ground to shape and then hung on racks by the holes in the handles. They moved through furnaces with literally hundreds hanging on these racks and then were water quenched en masse. The stories vary somewhat so I can’t be 100%, but this much I have heard to be true. I’ll see if I can find a picture or vid that I saw somewhere. Pretty nerdy stuff I know, but it’s really the rabbit I chased down the hole til I got an ashi if you can believe it. View attachment 78610
> View attachment 78611


Very cool, nerdy stuff is OK, I won't tell anyone. These look great too, you can clearly see the influence these had on the knives we have and like today.


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## Luftmensch (May 2, 2020)

Loving the thread. Jealous of you guys! Some nice work here. Wish I got my hand on one.

Maybe i'll have to grind one out of bar stock instead


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## RDalman (May 2, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Loving the thread. Jealous of you guys! Some nice work here. Wish I got my hand on one.
> 
> Maybe i'll have to grind one out of bar stock instead


Yea go for it, annealed barstock is easier to start with even.


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## Carl Kotte (May 2, 2020)

@Luftmensch You’re soon about to see a work in progress picture of my . That Will probably have the right scary effect on you.


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## valdim (May 2, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @Luftmensch You’re soon about to see a work in progress picture of my . That Will probably have the right scary effect on you.


I am looking forward to see the progress, too.I love the vintage shape of the Sabs.


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## valdim (May 2, 2020)

Gregmega said:


> Looks great man. It’ll be such a coup when the handles happen.
> 
> This was my last Sab rebuild- May have seen it on the new knife buy, but Andrew redid the blade, Graydon did the handle on the hidden tang, it came from Mert to my buddy Henk to me, and now a new lease on life. Andrew put the sickest grind in it. Feels like a Kato. So fat at the spine and whispers through at the tip. (Center)View attachment 78519


@Gregmega What is the material of the handles?


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## Luftmensch (May 2, 2020)

RDalman said:


> Yea go for it, annealed barstock is easier to start with even.



Definitely. I can source a few local options for 1075/84/95. It is pretty cheap! Might be a fun iso project. I'd send it out to a local heat-treat outfit.... buuuuuut. I also dived into youtube DIY on electric heat-treat ovens. Seems like a fun project in and of itself  (gotta learn to walk before I run though )




Carl Kotte said:


> @Luftmensch You’re soon about to see a work in progress picture of my . That Will probably have the right scary effect on you.





Do you butter the handle to water proof it? Or margarine?


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## Carl Kotte (May 2, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Definitely. I can source a few local options for 1075/84/95. It is pretty cheap! Might be a fun iso project. I'd send it out to a local heat-treat outfit.... buuuuuut. I also dived into youtube DIY on electric heat-treat ovens. Seems like a fun project in and of itself  (gotta learn to walk before I run though )
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Organic butter. Please, I’m civilized!


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## Carl Kotte (May 2, 2020)

@Luftmensch yeah, do it! The only problem that I see you may encounter (though of course I don’t really know what I’m talking about) is to replicate the annoying and clumsy original finger guard/bolster.


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## Carl Kotte (May 2, 2020)

Ok @Luftmensch I’m done. Doesn’t look quite as good as @Gregmega ’s but with some oil (and butter) it’s pretty close.


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## Carl Kotte (May 2, 2020)

Ok, I must confess, I did a little more work, but now I’m done.


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## M1k3 (May 2, 2020)

You shaped the hot dog bun so well. Who knew hot dog buns had such a nice grain pattern?


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## M1k3 (May 2, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @Luftmensch yeah, do it! The only problem that I see you may encounter (though of course I don’t really know what I’m talking about) is to replicate the annoying and clumsy original finger guard/bolster.



Easy! Cut some tape in the shape of the bolster. Put that on the bar stock. That's the "no fly zone". Smooth it when finished to not be razor sharp but still enough corners to remind the user that there's a useless bolster in the way.


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## Carl Kotte (May 2, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> You shaped the hot dog bun so well. Who knew hot dog buns had such a nice grain pattern?


It’s important to use both rye and wheat.


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## RDalman (May 2, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Ok, I must confess, I did a little more work, but now I’m done.


Wow I like your fancy miter saw setup and dust collection rag.


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## Carl Kotte (May 2, 2020)

RDalman said:


> Wow I like your fancy miter saw setup and dust collection rag.


Yeah, it’s almost criminally professional, right?  
(How on earth could you even see that?).


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## Gregmega (May 2, 2020)

valdim said:


> @Gregmega What is the material of the handles?


The full tang ones are African Blackwood and the hidden tang one is ringed gidgee with cooper and g10 spacers.


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## M1k3 (May 2, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Yeah, it’s almost criminally professional, right?
> (How on earth could you even see that?).


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## Carl Kotte (May 3, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 79092


This is surprisingly accurate (are you spying on me?); the wife was angry but in the corner opposite to where the arrow now points. That’s ok, I was angry too! The item under your question mark is a custom saya made by Dalman. It was an old prototype for the @Michi passaround (if you recall). Now, what I don’t get (even though I like them) is why my workbench has whiskers.


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## Luftmensch (May 3, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @Luftmensch yeah, do it! The only problem that I see you may encounter (though of course I don’t really know what I’m talking about) is to replicate the annoying and clumsy original finger guard/bolster.



I would definitely have to grind one in - so that I can have the authentic experience of grinding it out


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## Luftmensch (May 3, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Ok @Luftmensch I’m done. Doesn’t look quite as good as @Gregmega ’s but with some oil (and butter) it’s pretty close.



It is looking fantastic!

I like the slightly rough, black spots on the top. A reminder of the past. Well done guys! Nice work!


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## Luftmensch (May 3, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> You shaped the hot dog bun so well. Who knew hot dog buns had such a nice grain pattern?





Carl Kotte said:


> It’s important to use both rye and wheat.



 ... right!? Hehe...

Its not grain though... I believe it is more accurate to say that the handle has a nice crumb!


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## Carl Kotte (May 3, 2020)

@M1k3 you still haven’t told me about those cool whiskers. What are they representing? Tell me!


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## M1k3 (May 3, 2020)

Saw marks on your "mitre".


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## M1k3 (May 3, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @M1k3 you still haven’t told me about those cool whiskers. What are they representing? Tell me!



Or you're using "catwood" to work on?


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## kbright (May 3, 2020)

Here's an old Sab regrind that I did. 





Original Sabatier on top. Also a shortened Sabatier below. 





Bolsters ground flat, flat grind with convex edge, lowered the tip. Wa handle with wax bedding. 





Choil bevels from 3mm.


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## Carl Kotte (May 5, 2020)

Here are some pictures. The handle is installed and looks ! The blade is thinned and sanded. I’ll let this project rest now for a few days. I want to get to know this heavy friend before I move forward. The best thing with your own project knives is that you can always take a step back, give yourself time to observe and reflect, and then see whether you’re done or there’s more to be Done.


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## Carl Kotte (May 5, 2020)

And in action:


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## Luftmensch (May 5, 2020)

Loving it! 

Nice work!



Carl Kotte said:


> The best thing with your own project knives is that you can always take a step back, give yourself time to observe and reflect, and then see whether you’re done or there’s more to be Done.



And the pride of having been involved in the process! That has to be more thrilling than a unicorn. Right? 


(Cheeky comment on insta there )


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## Carl Kotte (May 5, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Loving it!
> 
> Nice work!
> 
> ...


I don’t know a lot about unicorns, but This was indeed thrilling. I’ve been very excited from the start. I’m not sure I’m quite done yet (we’ll see) but I really like it so far.


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## Luftmensch (May 5, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> I don’t know a lot about unicorns, but This was indeed thrilling.



I think so! Part vintage history, part master-craftsman, part personal toil and affection. Whats not to love!



Carl Kotte said:


> I’ve been very excited from the start. I’m not sure I’m quite done yet (we’ll see) but I really like it so far.



I am glad you are enjoying it. It has been fun to watch. 

What might you add/remove/change before you finish?

Have you sealed the handles in some way yet? If you are happy with the feel, don't forget to seal them in case they get stained. You can polish away and watch the grain pop out.... mmmmm.... the fibres can become holographic


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## childermass (May 5, 2020)

@Carl Kotte :Nice work on that handle!
My blank arrived in Sweden today and @RDalman measured the initial hardness at 52HRc.


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## valdim (May 5, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Here are some pictures. The handle is installed and looks ! The blade is thinned and sanded. I’ll let this project rest now for a few days. I want to get to know this heavy friend before I move forward. The best thing with your own project knives is that you can always take a step back, give yourself time to observe and reflect, and then see whether you’re done or there’s more to be Done.


Excellent outcome, Carl! Just excellent for an amateur craftman! The Sab looks so nice and is such a good tool at work.
I will drink my first shot for you at dinner tonight.


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## M1k3 (May 5, 2020)

Nice work! It's coming along nicely.


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## Carl Kotte (May 5, 2020)

Thanks guys!  
@Luftmensch I think I could round the spine and make it nice. I’m also thinking of taking out some of the scratches from all the thinning. I’m not going for a mirror polish, but some nice even polish would be cool. Lastly, I think the handle could do with some additional work; some of the lines and forms could be accentuated and some grain be made more visible. Currently it’s sanded up to p800 and then oiled 4 times. With each coating more grain is shown, if I’m not imagining and getting high on all the fumes...


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## Luftmensch (May 5, 2020)

Sounds like a good plan of attack!

Yeah. Im not a fan of mirror polishes. Maybe you could do a brushed finish? At 600 or 800 grit? Some nice fine parallel lines?

Hehe... I am sure you arent hallucinating!


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## Luftmensch (May 5, 2020)

Edit [doh... cached double reply on a separate tab ]


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## M1k3 (May 5, 2020)

Yeah, a finish on the knife around 600-800 grit sandpaper will have a nice looking matte finish that'll hide scratches decently.


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## Carl Kotte (May 6, 2020)

It’s a horse of some kind, but not sure what kind of horse it is. Workhorse, warhorse, stallion, stud, tensile horse...?


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## M1k3 (May 6, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> It’s a horse of some kind, but not sure what kind of horse it is. Workhorse, warhorse, stallion, stud, tensile horse...?


Hopefully not one of these?


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## IsoJ (May 6, 2020)

Well done


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## inferno (May 6, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Here are some pictures. The handle is installed and looks ! The blade is thinned and sanded. I’ll let this project rest now for a few days. I want to get to know this heavy friend before I move forward. The best thing with your own project knives is that you can always take a step back, give yourself time to observe and reflect, and then see whether you’re done or there’s more to be Done.



why did you ruin the handle? i thought it was much better when it was "a bit rough" a bit earlier in the thread.


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## inferno (May 6, 2020)

childermass said:


> @Carl Kotte :Nice work on that handle!
> My blank arrived in Sweden today and @RDalman measured the initial hardness at 52HRc.
> View attachment 79341



probably what it hardens to in air after forging.


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## inferno (May 6, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Thanks guys!
> @Luftmensch I think I could round the spine and make it nice. I’m also thinking of taking out some of the scratches from all the thinning. I’m not going for a mirror polish, but some nice even polish would be cool. Lastly, I think the handle could do with some additional work; some of the lines and forms could be accentuated and some grain be made more visible. Currently it’s sanded up to p800 and then oiled 4 times. With each coating more grain is shown, if I’m not imagining and getting high on all the fumes...



what are you oiling with?????

the only good oil that you should use is chinese tung nut oil. or tung oil. and the more pure the better.

you dilute it with acetone or "white spirit" (lacknafta) to 50% then do 3 coats of that. to make the oil soak in as deep as possible, then 3 pure tung oil coats. then its good for like 10 years or so. this takes about a week or so. 

i usually do 5 5050 coats then maybe 10 pure coats. until it stops sucking the stuff in. then its _really_ done. do once cry once.

if its worth doing its worth doing right imo.


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## Carl Kotte (May 6, 2020)

inferno said:


> why did you ruin the handle? i thought it was much better when it was "a bit rough" a bit earlier in the thread.


How much earlier?  (There’s a lot of pictures).
I used Danish oil. It’s supposed to be one of the go to oils, if I’m not mistaken.


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## inferno (May 6, 2020)

its better than sh1t oil at least.


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## Carl Kotte (May 6, 2020)

inferno said:


> its better than sh1t oil at least.


How do you get pure tung oil? Any hardware stores that carry it?


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## Carl Kotte (May 6, 2020)

@inferno I’m pretty crappy with all of this, but when it comes to wood (I might be mistaken) there Seems to be a lot of trade offs. I usually like the grip of the handles best when sanded to P320 or so, but I think they look more interesting when taken to p800 or so. Is there a way to get both grip and looks?


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## Carl Kotte (May 6, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Hopefully not one of these?  View attachment 79452


Is that a horse donkey or a donkey horse?


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## inferno (May 6, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> How do you get pure tung oil? Any hardware stores that carry it?



all paint store carry it. i like the liberon brand myself. but there are other pure thung oil brands to get too.


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## Carl Kotte (May 6, 2020)

inferno said:


> all paint store carry it. i like the liberon brand myself. but there are other pure thung oil brands to get too.


Thank you very much!


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## inferno (May 6, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @inferno I’m pretty crappy with all of this, but when it comes to wood (I might be mistaken) there Seems to be a lot of trade offs. I usually like the grip of the handles best when sanded to P320 or so, but I think they look more interesting when taken to p800 or so. Is there a way to get both grip and looks?



not really. you are grinding off the "grip" the higher you go. i stop at maybe p6-800. then its good enough of each imo. for wood that is.


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## inferno (May 6, 2020)

but when oiling the wood, then i keep it at 240 or 400. then i just do a finish grind after all oiling is done at maybe 800. then its done.


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## Carl Kotte (May 6, 2020)

inferno said:


> but when oiling the wood, then i keep it at 240 or 400. then i just do a finish grind after all oiling is done at maybe 800. then its done.


Cool! Thanks! That’s very helpful!


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## M1k3 (May 6, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @inferno I’m pretty crappy with all of this, but when it comes to wood (I might be mistaken) there Seems to be a lot of trade offs. I usually like the grip of the handles best when sanded to P320 or so, but I think they look more interesting when taken to p800 or so. Is there a way to get both grip and looks?



Sand up to 800, even 1k. Hit it a little with the 320 lightly, then buff? Or burn it?


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## M1k3 (May 6, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Is that a horse donkey or a donkey horse?


Just a donkey that sounds like Eddie Murphy.


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## Luftmensch (May 7, 2020)

inferno said:


> what are you oiling with?????
> 
> the only good oil that you should use is chinese tung nut oil. or tung oil. and the more pure the better.
> 
> ...





This gets my vote. Tung oil is amazing stuff. It almost turns the surface of the wood into a low gloss-resin. 




Carl Kotte said:


> How do you get pure tung oil? Any hardware stores that carry it?





inferno said:


> all paint store carry it. i like the liberon brand myself. but there are other pure thung oil brands to get too.



Yeah... Read the can though (or even better, the MSDS). 

Hardware store cans labelled 'Tung oil' may only have a small percentage. They are also likely to be doped with other chemicals (such as solvents and drying agents).

Liberon is a good recommendation.

If you do a google search, you'll probably find other smaller brands that make similar products. I used these guys. Thats only a viable recommendation for ozzies.... but what you can learn from the link is the thinning method. One of their recommendations is citric terpene.... the smell is intoxicating. In a good way! Imagine the howling souls of 1,000,000 oranges squashed and concentrated into one bottle.



Like @inferno says... it is labour intensive (or at least takes a long time). Once done it is beautiful, durable and non-toxic! The only cautionary note I would add is that it 'yellows' wood.... so if you are wanting to preserve the natural colours of lighter toned woods, it might not be the best fit.

Consider it for next time!


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## Luftmensch (May 7, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @inferno I’m pretty crappy with all of this, but when it comes to wood (I might be mistaken) there Seems to be a lot of trade offs. I usually like the grip of the handles best when sanded to P320 or so, but I think they look more interesting when taken to p800 or so. Is there a way to get both grip and looks?



This is true! And personal preference.

Just a thought.... I think handle grippyness matters less if you use pinch grip... and even less for asymmetric handle shapes (e.g. the classic Sab coke-bottle handle). 

I love wood as a material and the grain can be really beautiful - even for common woods. My preference would be to take it up to the highest grit you could be bothered with (800-1200)! You can make the grain pop. Although it may be smoother than a low-grit finish, the oil/resin isn't slick... it is still 'grippy'. A high-grit finish on wood with natural oils often ends up being matte. You have to work hard (i.e deliberately) to get a gloss/varnish/mirror finish. 

This all said, after several months of use, the difference between a good 600 and 1200 finish is _probably_ unlikely to be noticeable!!


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## Carl Kotte (May 7, 2020)

After everything you guys have said, I’m even happier with my choice of Danish oil  I think it was a good quick fix all things considered.


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## Luftmensch (May 7, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> After everything you guys have said, I’m even happier with my choice of Danish oil  I think it was a good quick fix all things considered.



There is nothing wrong with Danish oil! It is a good choice  

.... except... I thought you were Swedish?


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## M1k3 (May 7, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> There is nothing wrong with Danish oil! It is a good choice
> 
> .... except... I thought you were Swedish?


Ever used Aussie oil?


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## Luftmensch (May 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Ever used Aussie oil?



Hehe! No... but I imagine it would be something like ground up marsupials, eucalyptus oil and Vegemite.... applied by Hugh Jackman


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## inferno (May 9, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> This gets my vote. Tung oil is amazing stuff. It almost turns the surface of the wood into a low gloss-resin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



usually the tung oil is diluted with linseed oil in the "chinese wood oil" products. and the big drawback of linseed oil is that it turns everything yellow with time. this is why tung oil is genereally used. it doesn't yellow, or at least much much less. 

in some of the other products its based off tung oil and then they add some linseed and then hardeners and modifiers and whatever. 

i got a 1l can of jupex 45 last year. its mixed with all kinds of crap i guess. it says on the can that its mixed with the solvent n-paraffin (c10-c13). and when that solvent is gone it has an effective dry weight/percentage of 52%, it also contains *mainly* chinese tung oil....

but its like 1/5 the price of pure tung oil so i figured it would be nice to dunk stuff in for a few hours, to speed things up. since i dont want to dilute my pure oils with solvents just to dunk stuff in.


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## inferno (May 9, 2020)

btw i guess "citric terpene" is simply the monoterpene "limonene", there are others such as citral, citronellal, pinene, geraniol, menthol, camphene, eucalyptol etc etc.

its the smelly parts of plants and some animals. its the stuff that makes different kinds of weed smell _and work_ different 

now these monoterpenes are quite easily oxidized. i guess then they, at least some of them will turn yellow/brown/red or similar. i have never found any real yellowing with tung oil, but i usually use acetone or white spirit (naphta) as solvent.


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## Gregmega (May 9, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Here are some pictures. The handle is installed and looks ! The blade is thinned and sanded. I’ll let this project rest now for a few days. I want to get to know this heavy friend before I move forward. The best thing with your own project knives is that you can always take a step back, give yourself time to observe and reflect, and then see whether you’re done or there’s more to be Done.


So satisfying to see a project come together. Nice work!


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## Carl Kotte (May 9, 2020)

Gregmega said:


> So satisfying to see a project come together. Nice work!


Thank you very much Mr. Mega!


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## Luftmensch (May 10, 2020)

inferno said:


> since i dont want to dilute my pure oils with solvents just to dunk stuff in.




True! I have only been using it for my knife handles and (primarily) for a nice wooden serving board. I like the list of other monoterpenes. I'll consider some of them in the future!

... For the other wood projects I have done, I just use the commercial stuff . It is cheaper and I don't care about food safety


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## childermass (May 11, 2020)

Received some pictures of mine after heat treat and initial grinding.
Can’t wait to get my hands on this bad boy


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## Carl Kotte (May 11, 2020)

@childermass  I like what I see!


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## childermass (May 11, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @childermass  I like what I see!


Me too


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