# Am I the only home cook to prefer a larger chef's knife??



## Benuser (Jan 25, 2014)

It's all Son's fault, of course. He let me use a 29cm Trompette Sabatier for some time before cleaning it up. I had used large blades before, but this one was slightly forward heavy, so it was much easier and not that fatiguing. Question of changing the grip.
I bought a 270 Hiromoto, and it gives me the same impression. So much faster than a 240. Am I the only one??


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## sanLuigi (Jan 25, 2014)

I enjoy using a 270 that runs long. 
Sometimes, though, i take halh step back from the board, and i have spent some time in a pro environment.


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## stereo.pete (Jan 25, 2014)

I've found the sweet spot for me is in the ~255ish range.


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## chefcomesback (Jan 25, 2014)

I am 270mm kind of guy


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## Slypig5000 (Jan 25, 2014)

I use 240 which I think is about the limits of my tiny kitchen. I've had a few epiphanies in the years since I've started taking my cooking seriously and every time that I have gone up in size I have much preferred the results: going up to an 18x24 cutting board, I cook almost exclusively at this point in a 12" cast iron skillet and the move from a 180mm chef's knife up to the 240mm. Every instance, a can't imagine going back to the smaller size so maybe a 270 is my next stop on this adventure. I saw the pass around for the 270mm Tanaka awhile ago and regret not trying to be apart of it because I'd really like to try that knife in that size out.


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## chefcomesback (Jan 25, 2014)

Sorry , didn't read the thread properly , my use of 270mm knives is a habbit from my pro kitchen


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## mkriggen (Jan 25, 2014)

Benuser said:


> ...So much faster than a 240.



I've seen this statement quite a few times and it always confuses me. What makes a 270 faster then a 240?:scratchhead:

Be well,
mikey


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## chefcomesback (Jan 25, 2014)

mkriggen said:


> I've seen this statement quite a few times and it always confuses me. What makes a 270 faster then a 240?:scratchhead:
> 
> Be well,
> mikey



You can cut more things with bigger blades at once versus smaller blades


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## hojuturtle (Jan 25, 2014)

I prefer 210 at home. at work I go for 240


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## bkultra (Jan 25, 2014)

I like my knife edge to be around 250mm. So I buy 240mm gyutos from makers that run a little long (Masamoto, Heiji, Shigefusa, Etc)


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## XooMG (Jan 25, 2014)

I've never gotten the impression that shorter knives are preferred by the majority of this community. While there are some users who use them and prefer them, shorter blades are often much more attributed to outsiders (e.g. "the masses" and "wives").


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## bahamaroot (Jan 25, 2014)

stereo.pete said:


> I've found the sweet spot for me is in the ~255ish range.


+1


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## Mingooch (Jan 25, 2014)

Sold on 270s as a home cook with a decent amount of room in the kitchen. Might even be selling my 240s soon because of it.


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## Lefty (Jan 25, 2014)

I go anywhere from 175-240. In general, if cooking for four or less, I don't feel a huge need for bigger. Realistically, bigger is only quicker if you can fluidly cut 9 carrots with as much speed as you can 1-3 with a smaller blade.


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## Ucmd (Jan 25, 2014)

I also prefer 270. Quicker for everything.


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## Benuser (Jan 25, 2014)

Two elements I would like to mention: weight, which means less effort, when properly sharpened, and edge retention, as a larger area will touch the board.


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## jaybett (Jan 26, 2014)

A few years ago I picked up a Tadatsuna Inox 300mm gyuto. At the time the forum was going through a carbon purity movement, and 300mm was not a popular size. So I got a great deal on the knife.

The knife was a pleasant surprise. Apparently Tadatsunas run short. Mine is in the 285 range. The profile fits my cutting style to a t, so its my most comfortable gyuto to use. 

I really want to like gyutos, so I can hang out with the cool kids on the forum, which is probably 99 percent of all users. I just can't get over that half of the knife is waving around in the air, when push cutting or chopping. So I joined the dark side and got into cleavers. 

It's almost counter intuitive, but the weight of a knife makes it more efficient as a cutter. That is why I prefer heavier knives. I kept trying heavier and heavier knifes and found knives over 700 grams were too much. 

Jay


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jan 26, 2014)

As a home cook without decent cutting skills I don't see benefits in using larger blades. My longest blade is 240 and I can't say I'm any more productive with it compared to 210. Probably I would be as productive with 180mm gyuto if I had one. 

For larger blades you'd need better skills and more space in the kitchen.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 26, 2014)

Depends on the job,have used 270 better for some duties.However most I prefer a 240 a perfect size for many prep jobs.Banquets cutting 5 cases mushrooms or dicing 25# of tomatos 240 large enough for the job. Lighter smaller than 270 more nimble=speed.


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## ChiliPepper (Jan 26, 2014)

Interesting thread... if it goes any further with the weight love maybe we'll see a new resurgence for germans  
Or maybe a german knife with less belly will prove to be the ultimate gyuto!
Sorry, just kiddin...


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## Timthebeaver (Jan 26, 2014)

So a 270, which is heavier, is "faster" than a 240/210?. Right.

I totally understand that large knives are essential in a pro kitchen for large volume production. Anyone who thinks a 270 is somehow advantageous when cooking a meal for 4 is deluding themselves, "Don't buy a 210" has been essentially gospel on the forums for many years. It's a macho thing, pure and simple.


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## Geo87 (Jan 26, 2014)

Benuser said:


> Two elements I would like to mention: weight, which means less effort, when properly sharpened, and edge retention, as a larger area will touch the board.



Less effort only when the knife moves towards the chopping board, you still have to lift it back up right? 

Personally I would think a lighter knife would require less effort in the long run. It might not fall through things by its own weight but surely the difference is marginal if both blades are appropriately sharpened.

Light knife: slightly more effort as the knife moves through food, less effort lifting up for the next slice. 
Heavy knife: 'falls through' food easier, more effort to lift up again.

In my opinion in a long prep day the lighter knife wins for me as an all rounder. 
However you are referring to home cooking which is different entirely as you don't have to worry about using the knife for a whole day. 
I must admit the main basis for why i prefer a lightweight 240 gyuto for most things is that I don't want to be lifting something heavy up and down all day. 

Another point although a weak one i must admit ... Brunoise onion surely is not as easy with a 270-300 compared to 240? The further your guiding hand is away from your body the less control you have


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## bkultra (Jan 26, 2014)

keithsaltydog said:


> Depends on the job,have used 270 better for some duties.However most I prefer a 240 a perfect size for many prep jobs.Banquets cutting 5 cases mushrooms or dicing 25# of tomatos 240 large enough for the job. Lighter smaller than 270 more nimble=speed.



Something tells me this is not for home use. If it is what size is your family where you need 25# of tomatoes?


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## jaybett (Jan 26, 2014)

Geo87 said:


> Less effort only when the knife moves towards the chopping board, you still have to lift it back up right?
> 
> Personally I would think a lighter knife would require less effort in the long run. It might not fall through things by its own weight but surely the difference is marginal if both blades are appropriately sharpened.
> 
> ...



It's more then just falling through food. A heavier knife gives a finer sense of control over the side to side movement of the blade. Which is different from a knife being nimble. When trying to cut an onion as thinly as possible its easier to feel a heavier knife make a small movement. I can slice up an onion more consistently with a heavier knife. 

I am more confident making finer cuts with a heavier knife, since I can feel where the knife is at all times, which makes me more productive. I only feel the need for a heavier knife when chopping large amounts of veggies or protein. 

Jay


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## Ruso (Jan 26, 2014)

Due to small counter space, even 240 sometimes runs a little long. Even though I like the size, I am in a hunt for 210mm gyuto now.


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## mkriggen (Jan 26, 2014)

bkultra said:


> Something tells me this is not for home use. If it is what size is your family where you need 25# of tomatoes?



Well, Hawai'ians can run quite large

Be well,
Mikey


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 26, 2014)

bkultra said:


> Something tells me this is not for home use. If it is what size is your family where you need 25# of tomatoes?



Had to dice tomato's all the time Lomi Salmon for banquets(Hawaiian dish).Lots of yrs. Hotel Banquets 240mm gyuto most,Used 270 for some jobs chopping lettuce or loading up cutting alot of things at once.A 240 is more of a speed blade than the larger 270.

Now I'm semi retired still like 240 for making meals for 3 people,sometimes more.Always have a couple cleavers on my mag block.For small prep I grab a 223mm old style carbon drop nose gyuto.


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## Geo87 (Jan 26, 2014)

jaybett said:


> It's more then just falling through food. A heavier knife gives a finer sense of control over the side to side movement of the blade. Which is different from a knife being nimble. When trying to cut an onion as thinly as possible its easier to feel a heavier knife make a small movement. I can slice up an onion more consistently with a heavier knife.
> 
> I am more confident making finer cuts with a heavier knife, since I can feel where the knife is at all times, which makes me more productive. I only feel the need for a heavier knife when chopping large amounts of veggies or protein.
> 
> Jay



Good point. Makes me want to get a heavy 270 and play around with it for a few weeks to see.


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## deanb (Jan 26, 2014)

Benuser said:


> It's all Son's fault, of course. He let me use a 29cm Trompette Sabatier for some time before cleaning it up. I had used large blades before, but this one was slightly forward heavy, so it was much easier and not that fatiguing. Question of changing the grip.
> I bought a 270 Hiromoto, and it gives me the same impression. So much faster than a 240. Am I the only one??



270 is best for me. 240 isn't quite long enough and 300 seems a little too long. I'm a home cook too and I have way more knives than I need but I justify it by "it's my hobby". I have 270 gyutos that weigh from 175 grams to 250 grams. Like 'em all a lot.


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## Seth (Jan 26, 2014)

XooMG said:


> I've never gotten the impression that shorter knives are preferred by the majority of this community. While there are some users who use them and prefer them, shorter blades are often much more attributed to outsiders (e.g. "the masses" and "wives").


 ...and "Jacques Pepin"...


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## XooMG (Jan 27, 2014)

Seth said:


> ...and "Jacques Pepin"...


I'm in the short-blade camp, given my kitchen and cooking output. Biggest thing I'll cut on any regular basis is a head of cabbage, and a 210 handles that fine. I unfortunately cannot cut more than one onion or bell pepper at a time, and really don't need to go into speed-processing mode when cooking for 2-3 (if I did, I've got a Chinese cleaver).

I put a couple bell peppers and mushrooms on the board, and the first knives I want to grab are a 165mm nakiri and a 140mm Harner that I'm trying out. I can reach for a 210mm gyuto but counter space is limited and most of the edge is unnecessary. What would a 270 give me? More opportunity to bang the tip on something near the board if I'm cutting with the heel, and an awkward stance in a cramped kitchen if I'm trying to slice or work with the tip. Perhaps I'm missing something.


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## panda (Jan 27, 2014)

270 @ work, 240 @ home.


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## eshua (Jan 27, 2014)

I could totally get behind using a 270 at home. If I got a 500% raise and bought a place with a big ass kitchen.


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## panda (Jan 27, 2014)

if i could afford a place with big enough kitchen to accommodate the use of a 270, i would only eat food that was prepared by someone else thus no use for a knife


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## James (Jan 27, 2014)

I usually use a 240 at home, but ideally, I'd have a 225-230mm. For what it's worth, I only cook for two and have a relatively small board (12"x18")


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## Canadian (Jan 27, 2014)

Length is overstated. The difference between 230mm and 240mm is not enough to even worry about. Also, from experience I don't buy the idea that a 270mm is so much faster than a 240mm knife. Speed really comes down to other factors such as _knife skills_ and _board management_. Personally, I see chef's knives above 250mm as specialized tools. They loose some of their versatility as an all-purpose knife, which is how I use them. 8-10" is perfectly adequate and I think the user should base their decision on how the knife feels in the hand and not on some belief that they will "grow into" the larger knife or that their speed (a product of knife skills) will improve. 

A 12" Chef's knife might make you look more badass on the line or to your spouses friends, but you also risk looking like a fool--there is nothing elegant about using a sledgehammer to drive a 1/4" nail.


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## El Pescador (Jan 27, 2014)

I use a couple of "DT"s in the 230mm range. I liked bigger knives in the pro environment when I had the space and needed to be more productive.


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## jaybett (Jan 27, 2014)

Canadian said:


> Length is overstated. The difference between 230mm and 240mm is not enough to even worry about. Also, from experience I don't buy the idea that a 270mm is so much faster than a 240mm knife. Speed really comes down to other factors such as _knife skills_ and _board management_. Personally, I see chef's knives above 250mm as specialized tools. They loose some of their versatility as an all-purpose knife, which is how I use them. 8-10" is perfectly adequate and I think the user should base their decision on how the knife feels in the hand and not on some belief that they will "grow into" the larger knife or that their speed (a product of knife skills) will improve.
> 
> A 12" Chef's knife might make you look more badass on the line or to your spouses friends, but you also risk looking like a fool--there is nothing elegant about using a sledgehammer to drive a 1/4" nail.



While the length between a 240mm and 270mm is only an inch, there is a noticeable difference in square inches. A larger knife is going to have a longer flat or sweet spot, and be heavier, which makes for a more efficient knife. All things being equal a person should be more productive with a longer knife. 

A 240mm seems to be a good compromise between nimbleness and production. A smaller knife is more nimble but not as productive, while a larger knife is not as nimble but more productive. Everybody has to choose what works best for them. Its a bit short sighted to characterize people who use longer knifes, as posers. 

Jay


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## stevenStefano (Jan 27, 2014)

Canadian said:


> Also, from experience I don't buy the idea that a 270mm is so much faster than a 240mm knife. Speed really comes down to other factors such as _knife skills_ and _board management_



Well yes it's not massively faster, but if a knife is a little faster than another, when you extrapolate that slight speed advantage over everything you do over 60 hours a week, then the bigger knife is much much more efficient. It's pretty simple, a larger knife has larger flat sections so you can cut faster



Canadian said:


> A 12" Chef's knife might make you look more badass on the line or to your spouses friends, but you also risk looking like a fool--there is nothing elegant about using a sledgehammer to drive a 1/4" nail.



It also might make you look like someone who knows what they're doing


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## Canadian (Jan 27, 2014)

jaybett said:


> While the length between a 240mm and 270mm is only an inch, there is a noticeable difference in square inches. A larger knife is going to have a longer flat or sweet spot, and be heavier, which makes for a more efficient knife. All things being equal a person should be more productive with a longer knife.
> 
> A 240mm seems to be a good compromise between nimbleness and production. A smaller knife is more nimble but not as productive, while a larger knife is not as nimble but more productive. Everybody has to choose what works best for them. Its a bit short sighted to characterize people who use longer knifes, as posers.
> 
> Jay



Huh? Square inches is a measurement of area...

You're not convincing me. I've owned various patterns in different lengths. I am comparing two "gyutos" right now, 210mm and 250mm, and I promise you the "flat spot" is equal ("sweet spot" has not value to me as its purely a subjective statement i.e. not grounded in empirical reality). 

All things being equal, a person will not necessarily be more productive with the longer knife if the knife is used as a *chef's knife*. It's not as absolute as you say. 

Again, "productive" could mean many things to many different chef's. 

I never "characterized people who use longer knifes (sp?), as posers." Straw man, anyone?


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## Canadian (Jan 27, 2014)

stevenStefano said:


> Well yes it's not massively faster, but if a knife is a little faster than another, when you extrapolate that slight speed advantage over everything you do over 60 hours a week, then the bigger knife is much much more efficient. It's pretty simple, a larger knife has larger flat sections so you can cut faster
> 
> 
> 
> It also might make you look like someone who knows what they're doing




See above. I don't buy that it's "faster". Please explain to me in *concrete* terms how an 270mm knife is faster than a 240mm knife--especially if your technique is primarily push cutting. 

I bet our Chinese cleaver users would have something to say about this extra length equating to faster production>>>


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 27, 2014)

This is a great thread but lets not get too huffy peep. We're all entitled to our opinion but eventhough I use a 13" butcher block an am a home chef, I'm inclined to use knives 210 to 240 or smaller. However, I was lucky enough to get a DT ITK from the last batch and mine runs 250 on the blade. Was initially disapointed but after spending some time with it, It does make chopping veg faster cause I can go through more product. But Canadian makes a good point about a Chinese Clever, obviously shorter than a 270 gyuto but I bet the weight of the two knives are pretty close?


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## stevenn21 (Jan 27, 2014)

Benuser said:


> It's all Son's fault, of course. He let me use a 29cm Trompette Sabatier for some time before cleaning it up. I had used large blades before, but this one was slightly forward heavy, so it was much easier and not that fatiguing. Question of changing the grip.
> I bought a 270 Hiromoto, and it gives me the same impression. So much faster than a 240. Am I the only one??



i have a carter 240 im about to put on bst its the biggest i have ever had its perfect in size i cant imagine 270!


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## Canadian (Jan 27, 2014)

For some people a 210mm or 240mm gyuto might be "faster" than a 270mm or 300mm gyuto because it is more "nimble"--see what I'm getting at? 

Obviously if one prefers a longer knife, then use it. However, to make unsubstantiated claims whilst extolling them as rules is simply not right. 

Whether you like it or not, this forum is a source of kitchen knife knowledge for thousands (probably tens of thousands) of people who never register, yet who seek out information to help direct them in choosing a good kitchen knife (and nothing beyond that). Sometimes I think knife nuts/nerds/fanatics are actually the wrong people to be giving out advice because they focus on minutia details and out of that develops folklore and assumptions that are simply not based in reality. 

I do beleive there are points where a knife can be too small or too big for its intended purpose, but I also don't think that millimetres within that "general" range is going to make an iota of difference in practical application. And yes, that includes so-called "speed". 

I will reiterate. Provided an individual is using a general chef's knife between 8 and 10 inches, and said person is using the knife as an all purpose tool, knife skills and board management are the determining factors in a person's efficiency and thus speed on the board. 

If you are cutting something specific all day every day, then maybe a 13" chef's would be better. Or maybe a 7" chef's? However, then it becomes a specialized tool.

I find some of the assumptions on this forum regarding length does not line up with my personal experience on the cutting board and with working professionals. For example, in the field I use (and most people I know) a 3" drop point for dressing an 800 pound elk. In the cooler most butchers use a 5-6" boning knife for 90% of their work and an 8-10" "butcher" or "breaking" knife for portioning (where's the 300mm Suji?). I break down game birds with a 3.5" clip point. Never would I think a 6" "petty" would be a better tool for the job. Could I still do it? Yeah, of course, but there is a point where the size becomes a hinderance.


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## stevenStefano (Jan 27, 2014)

Canadian said:


> See above. I don't buy that it's "faster". Please explain to me in *concrete* terms how an 270mm knife is faster than a 240mm knife--especially if your technique is primarily push cutting.



In concrete terms? Cut by just moving the knife straight up and down with no backwards/forwards motion. Do that with a 240 then a 270 and see which is quicker. 



Canadian said:


> Whether you like it or not, this forum is a source of kitchen knife knowledge for thousands (probably tens of thousands) of people who never register, yet who seek out information to help direct them in choosing a good kitchen knife (and nothing beyond that). Sometimes I think knife nuts/nerds/fanatics are actually the wrong people to be giving out advice because they focus on minutia details and out of that develops folklore and assumptions that are simply not based in reality.



Perhaps you should explain to all the professional Chefs here on the forum how their assumptions are not based on reality. I agree that the forum is a useful source to many people, so I reflect on my own experiences in the hope that someone doesn't spend a load of money on their first good knife ever and wish they had bought a longer one.


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## Canadian (Jan 27, 2014)

stevenStefano said:


> In concrete terms? Cut by just moving the knife straight up and down with no backwards/forwards motion. Do that with a 240 then a 270 and see which is quicker.



This statement makes no sense. If one is push cutting a normal sized item then how would a longer knife be "faster"?


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## Benuser (Jan 27, 2014)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zq37b1wG-yo&gl=NL&client=mv-google&hl=nl&guid=

When not chopping but using "guillotine and glide" this is even more evident, as the first contact between food and blade will take place more forward. It's all about the upward distance one has to traverse.


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## stevenStefano (Jan 27, 2014)

Canadian said:


> This statement makes no sense. If one is push cutting a normal sized item then how would a longer knife be "faster"?



You're being obtuse. I suspect your definition of a "normal-sized item" would differ to mine. Try a cabbage? Maybe a lettuce? onion? What doesn't make sense to you? The flat section of the knife is larger therefore less backwards and forwards motion is needed, therefore you can cut faster


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## labor of love (Jan 27, 2014)

im not sure that edge length really is the primary factor to consider when we talk about speed. lasers could cut the quickest i suppose if the blade doesnt get too much food stiction but you maybe have to stop to clean off the food stuck to the blade which slows down prep. serious steep asymetric bevels could also prevent sticktion but the added weight of a thicker gyuto may slow down actual guillotine cuts. also, who cares how fast you can cut food if your cuts arent precise and consistent. ive seen numerous youtube vids of people demolishing vegatable prep in seconds but if you look at the cuts you can tell theyre inconsistent. IMO finding whatever knife can give you the most precise and consistent cuts technically is the "fastest":sofa::my2cents:


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## mkriggen (Jan 27, 2014)

Just thought I'd remind all you pros that the OP asked about _home cooks_ using 270+ gyutos.

Be well,
Mikey


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## WildBoar (Jan 27, 2014)

mkriggen said:


> Just thought I'd remind all you pros that the OP asked about _home cooks_ using 270+ gyutos.
> 
> Be well,
> Mikey


Sadly your original question went in the terlit a while back when someone started insisting there was no way a knife over 255 could benefit any home cook. i had started a response earlier today about my own preferences but decided not to post it because I saw the turn the thread was already taking. But I do find it rediculous that someone can insist that the best to use are 210-255 unless you are a pro, rather then just stating their own preference. And if you claim otherwise you need to prove it. Yet no proof is offered a 210-255 is always best for all non-pros.


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## bahamaroot (Jan 27, 2014)

There are very few if any absolutes when it comes to knives. That there is a best length for everyone in a given situation is definitely *NOT* an absolute.


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## Canadian (Jan 28, 2014)

stevenStefano said:


> You're being obtuse. I suspect your definition of a "normal-sized item" would differ to mine. Try a cabbage? Maybe a lettuce? onion? What doesn't make sense to you? The flat section of the knife is larger therefore less backwards and forwards motion is needed, therefore you can cut faster



No, those are my ideas of normals sized items too--carrots, onions, potatoes, yams, etc.

You're talking about *slicing* NOT push cutting. These are two different techniques...:headband:

For most tasks when push cutting you shouldn't need to "slice" back and forth regardless of blade length (unless of course the knife is shorter than the item being cut)

For future clarity of communications, "larger" is a designation of size and longer is a designation of length. Likewise, inches is not the same as "square inches".


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## Canadian (Jan 28, 2014)

labor of love said:


> im not sure that edge length really is the primary factor to consider when we talk about speed. lasers could cut the quickest i suppose if the blade doesnt get too much food stiction but you maybe have to stop to clean off the food stuck to the blade which slows down prep. serious steep asymetric bevels could also prevent sticktion but the added weight of a thicker gyuto may slow down actual guillotine cuts. also, who cares how fast you can cut food if your cuts arent precise and consistent. ive seen numerous youtube vids of people demolishing vegatable prep in seconds but if you look at the cuts you can tell theyre inconsistent. IMO finding whatever knife can give you the most precise and consistent cuts technically is the "fastest":sofa::my2cents:



Good points.


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## Canadian (Jan 28, 2014)

WildBoar said:


> Sadly your original question went in the terlit a while back when someone started insisting there was no way a knife over 255 could benefit any home cook. i had started a response earlier today about my own preferences but decided not to post it because I saw the turn the thread was already taking. But I do find it rediculous that someone can insist that the best to use are 210-255 unless you are a pro, rather then just stating their own preference. And if you claim otherwise you need to prove it. Yet no proof is offered a 210-255 is always best for all non-pros.



That "someone" never claimed that "there was no way a knife over 255 could benefit any home cook". 

I said length is overstated especially when we are comparing knives that are 210, 240 and 270mm. There are no absolutes when talking about the perfect chef's knife length. There is a tendency of some to "insist" that the longer knife is more "serious" or "professional" or "faster" when I simply don't believe this to be true for most types of multi-purpose cutting tasks nor is it what I see in professional kitchens. 

I say buy the one that feels best in the hand. If it's 270mm in length then so be it, but be honest with yourself--you won't look like any less of a man and it won't affect what ends up on the plate.


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## Geo87 (Jan 28, 2014)

Benuser: sorry for contributing to the OT tangent , however the discussion is interesting 

I think every size has a certain use that may vary from person to person. There should definitely not be any absolutes . However if the majority of professional chefs are saying 270 is what works for them surly this cannot be ignored. In saying that.... I agree that cutting more product at once for some May end up less consistent. 

As an example in a particular dish you may need absolutely perfect small dice of potatoes .... My personal choice 240 . 

Another task : large miripoix for veal stock needed urgently.... Knife of choice 270 as precision is not a factor and you could cut more product at once 

So different knives for different tasks for different people . There is no absolute...surely


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## Geo87 (Jan 28, 2014)

Benuser said:


> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zq37b1wG-yo&gl=NL&client=mv-google&hl=nl&guid=
> 
> When not chopping but using "guillotine and glide" this is even more evident, as the first contact between food and blade will take place more forward. It's all about the upward distance one has to traverse.



Although that video has a pretty solid argument as to why larger is faster. even though my sound wasn't working lol. Less up and down movement when the tip stays on the board. I feel a lightbulb has just gone off for me .


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## stevenStefano (Jan 28, 2014)

Canadian said:


> No, those are my ideas of normals sized items too--carrots, onions, potatoes, yams, etc.
> 
> You're talking about *slicing* NOT push cutting. These are two different techniques...:headband:
> 
> ...



You're wrong but whatever, I think no matter what I say you're gonna have some issue with it and you'll disagree regardless. Since about half this thread has little to do with the original post, I'm out. Your opinion is correct, everyone else's is wrong, you win. I hope new people aren't put off by this thread


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## Canadian (Jan 28, 2014)

stevenStefano said:


> You're wrong but whatever, I think no matter what I say you're gonna have some issue with it and you'll disagree regardless. Since about half this thread has little to do with the original post, I'm out. Your opinion is correct, everyone else's is wrong, you win. I hope new people aren't put off by this thread



Steven, I wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers. I just wanted some clarifications--I apologize if I came off rude. No way am I more right than anybody else, but at the same time if someone is attempting to validate a concept my critical nature kicks in and I ask questions.

I watched the video Benuser posted and I have to say that is the most convincing example of a larger knife being more "efficient" than a smaller knife. faster? I'm not so sure--probably over the long haul. For a home cook I strongly suspect it doesn't matter as speed and duration are not important.


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## WildBoar (Jan 28, 2014)

Canadian said:


> For a home cook I strongly suspect it doesn't matter as speed and duration are not important.


Once again it depends on the person. Speed is very important for me, as a lot of what we cook takes piles of onions, etc., and after getting home from work I don't want to spend any more time than I need to on getting dinner together. Heck, that's why I am here at KKF; using the Wusthofs I had was painful, and I wanted to find knives that would let me knock out prep faster. I started with a 210, which I thought would be long enough. But it wasn't that great for big onions and some other things. I tried 220s and 240s-255s, and found the 240s-255s work best for me. I have some shorter ones to use for when I only have some garlic, a couple shallots, etc., and a 270 for when I need to tackle larger items. Not sure why you think people recommending longer knives has anything to do with perceived masculinity. :scratchhead:


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## Benuser (Jan 29, 2014)

Thanks for all your contributions, guys! Couldn't imagine my simple question would lead to such a great thread.


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## jamaster14 (Jan 29, 2014)

bahamaroot said:


> There are very few if any absolutes when it comes to knives. That there is a best length for everyone in a given situation is definitely *NOT* an absolute.



I agree with this, and id say in general the best length for a home chef is the length the chef feels most comfortable with. I personally prefer something in the 240mm-250mm range, but have often used longer and felt comfortable with it... especially when butchering and cleaning whole larger fish or animals in which doing things in 1 long stroke is beneficial.


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## jamaster14 (Jan 30, 2014)

....


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## TurdMuffin (Jan 31, 2014)

i barely have the counter space to use 240


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## jamaster14 (Jan 31, 2014)

TurdMuffin said:


> i barely have the counter space to use 240




i've seen a few people mention this... but do you really need more counter space to use a 240mm vs say a 210 or 180?


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## XooMG (Jan 31, 2014)

jamaster14 said:


> i've seen a few people mention this... but do you really need more counter space to use a 240mm vs say a 210 or 180?



Yes. When I first got my Itinomon 210, I had to adjust a bit to use it. Part of that was just heft and height, but I had to be careful about the tip because of its length compared to my Yusuke 210. To be honest, beyond 180 my kitchen feels a bit cramped, and I only really appreciate the bigger knives on cabbage and other larger items. 30mm can be quite a difference when trying to be mindful of the tip.


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## toddnmd (Jan 31, 2014)

Well, you typically need more board space to use a longer knife effectively--you don't want to worry about being too close to the edge. I've seen the diagonal of the board at least as long as the overall knife length as a general guideline. So, you can cut a single lemon with a paring knife on a little bar board, but that combination isn't effective with a longer knife on the same board. Sure, it's possible to use your gyuto in this situation, but it would get old pretty fast.


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## Chef Doom (Feb 1, 2014)

WOW! There was some fire behind this thread. Very enjoyable. Keep the fire coming people. Never a dull moment on KKF.

In regards to the original question.....

Although I don't have a 270 at the moment, I will say that I get a better feel and better mobility with a 240 over a 210. I seem to work better with a 240. Funny thing is I get the same feeling and ease of use with a nakiri as I do with a 240 when cutting fruits and vegetables which is shorter than my 210 gyuto. I actually a rotate between a nakiri and 240 gyuto regularly. The length and taper of a 210 actually makes preparing food at home a little cumbersome. 

The biggest factor I believe is the size of your cutting board and cooking area. If you have a nice sized kitchen and a cutting board the size of a dining table, then I could see a 270 being a valuable tool for the situation. But if you're elbow is 2 inches away from hitting the wall, and you are on a 10" by 10" cutting surface, then even a 210 might seem a little long for the situation.


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## Sharbuckle (Feb 2, 2014)

Love love love 270mm, my workhorse


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## TurdMuffin (Feb 3, 2014)

jamaster14 said:


> i've seen a few people mention this... but do you really need more counter space to use a 240mm vs say a 210 or 180?



In my opinion main issue is cutting board. If you don't have the room for a big cutting board you can't use a big knife. It also depends on how much clutter you have on your counters too with things like toasters and coffeemakers and fruit baskets and paper towels and all that jazz


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## jackslimpson (Feb 3, 2014)

I've enjoyed this thread, also. I'm a home cook. I mostly cook for 2, or enough to feed one or two people for a week. The most people I've cooked for at once was 28. The knives I use the most often are my 6 inch Carter Funayuki, my 210 Tojiro Shirogami gyuto, my 240mm Yoshikane SKD's (one hammer finished, one Zensho kasumi), and my 270mm Hattori HD. Experience teaches me to reach for the 240mm most times. I consciously try to use one knife for everything, so that I can learn the strengths and weaknesses of the knives and my skills. For example, I once chose the 6 inch Carter Funayuki to get through an entire Thanksgiving dinner for 14 people. It worked, but I won't try it again -- sometimes it's just more efficient to use a different knife, smaller or larger. I'm always surprised at how nimble the 270mm Hattori is: I can slice eggplants as easily as I can little shallots. The only downside is that the Hattori seems to be more in-the-way than my smaller knives when I'm not actively using it. If I had room for a rack on the wall nearby this problem would go away. 

Cheers,

Jack


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## jazzybadger (Feb 6, 2014)

I've got a 270mm Gyuto and I'm seriously considering going for a 300mm the next time I upgrade from this one. I was unsure how I would adapt to using this one compared to the 210, but it made my life so much easier.


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## stevenStefano (Feb 6, 2014)

jazzybadger said:


> I've got a 270mm Gyuto and I'm seriously considering going for a 300mm the next time I upgrade from this one. I was unsure how I would adapt to using this one compared to the 210, but it made my life so much easier.



If I ever get another wa handled knife I might try a 300 out of curiosity. I've got 3 that are 270 on the edge and it's fine


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## jamaster14 (Feb 7, 2014)

jazzybadger said:


> I've got a 270mm Gyuto and I'm seriously considering going for a 300mm the next time I upgrade from this one. I was unsure how I would adapt to using this one compared to the 210, but it made my life so much easier.



Im a home chef(trained classically but no longer work in restaraunts). I dont have a huge kitchen, yet space has never really been an issue for me as far as knives are concerned. I use a 240mm/270mm chef knife for almost all of my tasks. Honestly im quite suprised that so many here mention tight quarters as a sticking point to going with a shorter blade. I'm not sure i could go with anything smaller then a 240 or 210 and feel comfortable


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## ChiliPepper (Feb 10, 2014)

Awesome thread that shows different opinions from different typical users.
For a home cook I'd say that:
1. If you are already experienced with knives lenghts and cutting motions, then go with your heart's desire and buy whatever length you fancy
2. If you're unsure, probably a gyuto in the 210-250 range is a good starting point and go from there


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## TaJ (Feb 10, 2014)

As a home cook i reach for a 270 mm Gyuto more often instead of the 240 mm. One reason how that developed was that i was too lazy to get the Sujihiki for slicing meat, which works better with the longer blade. Thus, using the 270 mm more often than the 240 mm might have made me more comfortable and better skilled using it. The versatility made me prefer the longer knife.


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