# Gyuto knife between £100-£200



## jbuchan359 (Dec 2, 2016)

Hi there,

As per the title suggests, I am hoping for some advice on which Gyuto would best suit my needs. I'm new to the knife enthusiast scene and would appreciate your help in choosing the appropriate knife.

Below is the questionnaire:

LOCATION
What country are you in? *Scotland / United kingdom*

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? *Chefs knife*

Are you right or left handed? *Right*

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? *I'm open to both.*

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? *210-240mm*

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) *From what I gather, stainless is the maintenance free option which would be handy, but I'm sure you guys could persuade me otherwise!*

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? *£150-250. However, I was hoping to get another knife that would be suitable for vegtable prep within that budget*


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? *Home*

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) *General home cooking: varying meats, vegtables and fruit (chopping, slicing and dicing). *

What knife, if any, are you replacing? *A very cheap set of knives acquired on amazon. I'll say no more!*

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) *Incorrectly, but I'm trying to adapt to a pinch grip*

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) *rock, slice*

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) *sharper profile and longer lasting edge*

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? *Asthetics are a 'nice to have' and are not essential, but I like the damascus / hammered look.*

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? *The knives I currently use are quite light, so probably best to stick with I am already accustomed to*

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? *Better overall ability*

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? *atleast a couple of meal preps*


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) *Yes, wooden*

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) *at the moment, I only use a honing rod*

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) *I am interested*

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) *Given time and funds, I would buy the appropriate kit*

_________________________________________________________________

I'll list the knives I've been looking at:

- Miyabi 6000mct
- Shun premier
- Wusthof Ikon
- Yu Kurosaki Megumi
- Sakai Takayuki Moonlit Wave
- Takumi Ikeda Suminagashi Gyuto 

I look forward to your responses!

Thanks,
Jordan


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## chinacats (Dec 2, 2016)

Welcome Jordan

I'd suggest this knife available in Europe from one of our supporting vendors.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-stainless-kasumi-210mm-wa-gyuto/

Great cutter and likely more bang for your buck than some on your list.

Cheers


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## JaVa (Dec 2, 2016)

+1 for the Itinomonn (semi) StainLess. I love mine!

If you'd be OK with SS clad carbon then the Tanaka B2 core with SS cladding from Knives & Stones could be just the ticket. Also James is really great to deal with. 
http://www.knivesandstones.com/tana...lad-210mm-with-custom-octagonal-ebony-handle/
Very nice rendition of the B2 steel. Very easy to get sharp. Tanakas convex grinds are legendary with some serious cutting abilities and good food release properties.


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## jbuchan359 (Dec 2, 2016)

Thanks for the suggestions! Both of the knives look to fit the bill - Scarily sharp, but functional.

My only concern is that both retailers are based overseas. Do you have any experience with the importation fees, are these included in the prices listed on the sites?


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## JaVa (Dec 2, 2016)

JNS is in Denmark and the Itinomonn StainLess Kasumi will be enough for free shipment. So basically what you see is what you get. 

K&S is in Australia and they have free shipping too, but The Tanaka is probably under the free shipment threshold. Send James an email and ask about the duties and shipment cost. I live in Finland and I've bought from him with out any problems.


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## guari (Dec 2, 2016)

jbuchan359 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions! Both of the knives look to fit the bill - Scarily sharp, but functional.
> 
> My only concern is that both retailers are based overseas. Do you have any experience with the importation fees, are these included in the prices listed on the sites?



It's a bit of a lottery outwith EU boundaries. Some carriers might declare it and raise VAT, some might go unnoticed. I have placed orders both uk and japan and the japps sonetimes will get caught and taxed.. 

In addition to the listed vendors, also take a look at cutting edge uk..


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## miggus (Dec 2, 2016)

I don't know if I missed something, but afaik, the UK still is in the EU, as is Denmark. So you should not have to pay any VAT if ordering from a Europe-based vendor, right?


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## guari (Dec 2, 2016)

miggus said:


> I don't know if I missed something, but afaik, the UK still is in the EU, as is Denmark. So you should not have to pay any VAT if ordering from a Europe-based vendor, right?



I may have misworded that, but you are right. 

VAT for things outside the EU boundaries


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## gaijin (Dec 3, 2016)

miggus said:


> I don't know if I missed something, but afaik, the UK still is in the EU, as is Denmark. So you should not have to pay any VAT if ordering from a Europe-based vendor, right?



Within EU, you normally pay VAT directly at the store, normally the VAT rate from the sellers country. But on the other hand, no VAT is added when the parcel is entering your own country.


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## jbuchan359 (Dec 3, 2016)

JaVa said:


> JNS is in Denmark and the Itinomonn StainLess Kasumi will be enough for free shipment. So basically what you see is what you get.
> 
> K&S is in Australia and they have free shipping too, but The Tanaka is probably under the free shipment threshold. Send James an email and ask about the duties and shipment cost. I live in Finland and I've bought from him with out any problems.



Thanks for the clarification on importation charges! The Itinomonn looks to be the likely choice. However, my only dissapointment is that it looks a bit plain. Do you know of any alternatives which offer similar performance, but feature a more rustic finish?


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## guari (Dec 3, 2016)

From japanese sellers, I've ordered from Jappany and went throught customs without a hiccup:

http://www.japanny.com/collections/...clad-kurouchi-gyuto-japanese-chef-knife-240mm

Same with JKC, no VAT on entry.

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SearchedBySteelandBladeType.html#SearchedBySteel&BladeType

I did buy from Chubbo knives in Japan and did have to pay VAT with them.

All this said, I do think it makes sense to look for EU options (in particular UK) because the pound is very weak and doesn't get you as much as it used to. I've bough from cutting edges uk a couple times and they have a good selection and nice prices

This is a bit over your budget but it's a great cutter and blue steel with stainless cladding. It will retain i's edge for plenty home use and comes very sharp.

https://cuttingedgeknives.co.uk/brands/masakage/koishi/gyuto-240mm

Very similar but with R2 powder metalurgy (will hold an edge even longer but they are a tad harder to resharpen)

https://cuttingedgeknives.co.uk/brands/yu-kurosaki/shizuku/gyuto-240mm


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## miggus (Dec 3, 2016)

gaijin said:


> Within EU, you normally pay VAT directly at the store, normally the VAT rate from the sellers country. But on the other hand, no VAT is added when the parcel is entering your own country.





guari said:


> Same with JKC, no VAT on entry.



To be exact, like gaijin said, usually end customers always pay VAT. But what we are talking about is import sales tax / importation VAT, which will have to be paid en plus when importing from a non EU country, at least in most cases.


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## fatboylim (Dec 3, 2016)

+1 for the Itinomonn, I got the 240 stainless and it is awesome for the price. Also, the website price includes VAT so no issues and it was sent to UK London in 3 days without a hitch! Maxim, the owner, knows his stuff so you are getting a great deal and knife! The only question is 210bor 240?


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## fatboylim (Dec 3, 2016)

210mm or 240mm


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## jbuchan359 (Dec 4, 2016)

fatboylim said:


> +1 for the Itinomonn, I got the 240 stainless and it is awesome for the price. Also, the website price includes VAT so no issues and it was sent to UK London in 3 days without a hitch! Maxim, the owner, knows his stuff so you are getting a great deal and knife! The only question is 210bor 240?



Counter space is limited, so 210 would probably be the more appropriate size. 

I've been doing some searching and may have found some alternatives which offer (IMO) better visuals. I'll list them below:

- http://gx2.japan-messer-shop.de/de/Messerarten-im-Ueberblick/Gyuto/Takamura-VG10-Damast-Gyuto---handgeschmiedet-und--signiert--21-cm-Klinge.html

- http://gx2.japan-messer-shop.de/de/Messerarten-im-Ueberblick/Gyuto/Takamura-VG10-Damast-Gyuto---handgeschmiedet-und--signiert--21-cm-Klinge-1025.html

- http://www.japansemessen.nl/a-40503809/chefsmessen-gyuto/zanmai-classic-pro-hfr-8005d-gyuto-chefsmes-210-mm/

-https://cuttingedgeknives.co.uk/brands/yu-kurosaki/megumi/gyuto-210mm

- https://cuttingedgeknives.co.uk/brands/takumi-ikeda/suminagashi/gyuto-210mm

If anyone could have a look at the knives above and tell me how they compare with the Itinomonn, I'd be extremely grateful.

Regards,
Jordan.


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## Devon_Steven (Dec 4, 2016)

miggus said:


> To be exact, like gaijin said, usually end customers always pay VAT. But what we are talking about is import sales tax / importation VAT, which will have to be paid en plus when importing from a non EU country, at least in most cases.



In the UK this is called customs duty, or import duty.

You can read all about it straight from the horse's mouth here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...tice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users

In a nutshell you pay, for non-EU goods:

(i) VAT at the standard 20 per cent (calculated on the cost of the item/s and shipping and insurance costs);
(ii) customs duty as per the rate for that item (kitchen knife = 8.5 per cent / sharpening stone = no customs duty) (also calculated on the cost of the item/s and shipping and insurance costs); and
(iii) a Royal Mail/Parcel Force handling charge (£8 or £13.50 see http://www.parcelforce.com/sites/default/files/Customs leaflet.pdf)

There's also a sliding scale...

*Goods Value and Customs Charges applicable*


£0.01 to £15	No customs, No Import VAT**

£15.01 to £135	No customs, Import VAT due

£135.01 and greater	Customs duty due, but waived if the amount calculated due is less than £9, Import VAT due

----------------------------

Disclaimer: I wrote this pre-Brexit, after which we can maybe look forward to import duties from everywhere.


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## JaVa (Dec 4, 2016)

You found some interesting choices. There's quite a wide variety in those options. I have no experience with any of them, but i'll chime in with some general thoughts. 

Wa (japanese handle) is lighter and will push the balance towards the blade.They need a little more care since they are usually natural wood that's treated with oil or wax or nothing. Yo (western handle) Are heavier since there's more metal in the tang and the wood is usually stabilised wood. It all ads weight and pulls the weight back towards the handle. Stabilised wood is much more durable.

You can't go wrong with any of Takamuras offerings. They know how to work VG10 correctly and their F&F is always perfect. But for that price I'd look at the R2 PM steel version with red handle. It does not have the nice Damascus, but R2 steel is superior to VG10 and it's edge retention is better. It's very thin and light and cuts like a dream. It is one of the most recommended knives for a reason. 

The Kurosaki Megumi sure is a looker. Kurosaki is a young blade smith with good reputation, but like above it's another good VG10 blade. I'd reach for the R2 version instead (the one guari already recommended, but in 210 size) because it's slightly easier to sharpen and holds it's edge better. (plus personally I like the smaller "Kurosaki type" hammer marks better). What I've read is Kurosakis knives could use a little thinner tips, but otherwise are great performers.

The Takumi Ikeda is the only carbon knife (B2 with ss cladding). It's the easiest to sharpen of the bunch, but it needs to be attended right after use. The SS cladding does make life easier. Profile looks nice.

The Zanmai is another VG10. Construction looks very handle heavy. If it were me, I'd rather choose one of the other knives above.

BTW nothing wrong with a well treated VG10. It can be a very capable steel, but there are even better options in your reach. Like the R2 or Itinomonns semi stainless.


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## fatboylim (Dec 4, 2016)

One last consideration, buying one the classifieds is a great way to stretch the budget! Patients and prowess of the Tiger is required. In other words, research exactly what you want in 2 or 3 makes, then buy quickly. Good deals here do not last long! There was a Konosuke HD2 240 on BST that could have been ideal for you; sold since by now.


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## jbuchan359 (Dec 8, 2016)

Again, I cant emphasize my gratitude for your assistance and detailed responses. However, I've still not pulled the trigger and my better half has warned me to stop being so indecisive; she's given me a 12 hour deadline to pick my final choice!

So.. I've decided i'll be purchasing from either JNS or cleancut. Here are my final options:

*JNS*

- http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-stainless-kasumi-210mm-wa-gyuto/?setCurrencyId=7


*Cleancut*

- http://cleancut.se/butik/knivmodeller/kockknivar/kockknivar-detail

- http://cleancut.se/butik/rea/realisation/knivset2014-11-06-12-19-44-1825-detail

- http://cleancut.se/butik/knivserier/yaxell-4-serier/ran/kockkniv2013-08-22-12-27-052013-08-22-12-27-05-82-detail

- http://cleancut.se/butik/knivmodeller/kockknivar/skalkniv-6-2541-2542-2543-2544-detail


I realise that the Miyabi knives will likely be classed as inferior, but from what I gather, their F&F is superior to a lot of alternatives. I'd appreciate your thoughts on the knives listed above.

Many thanks,
Jordan.


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## Matus (Dec 8, 2016)

It is OK that you have hard time to choose - it is VERY overwhelming at the beginning and truth to be told, there are too many nice knives out there 

From the list you posted I would only consider the Yoshikane. The grind will most probably be on the workhorse side of things (I have SKD Hakata), but it will be excellently made knife. I would NOT consider any of the Miyabi knives, becuase of the handle design - all of those will be butt-heavy because there is way too much steel on the handle. I can not comment how they cut. If you like the style then why not, but I can only say - the more time you will spend researchinig Japanese kitchen knives, the more you will start to move away from that over-polished flashy damascus finishes which are made to catch the eye of the western byuers.

It was already said - Itinomonn stainless is a great knife. Since it is not too tall (I have the 210), I would go with 240.

Also check out the Ikeda stainless clad super blue: https://cuttingedgeknives.co.uk/brands/takumi-ikeda/suminagashi/gyuto-210mm Ikeda knives are highly regarded around here, so I would expect a well made grind and good HT.

Masakage Koishi is a very knife (I have 130 ko-bunka which I got from cutting edge knives), but I am not sure whether the grind is not a bit on the thick side for a gyuto. The steel performs very well though.


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## DamageInc (Dec 8, 2016)

Avoid Miyabi. I have one and while nice, the handle is extremely heavy.

Of the ones you listed, I would go for the Itinomonn first, Yoshikane second. And I only say that because I'm not a huge fan of the hammer finish on the Yoshikane. You will be happy with either, but I would prefer the Itinomonn.


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## JaVa (Dec 8, 2016)

jbuchan359 said:


> Again, I cant emphasize my gratitude for your assistance and detailed responses. However, I've still not pulled the trigger and my better half has warned me to stop being so indecisive; she's given me a 12 hour deadline to pick my final choice!
> 
> So.. I've decided i'll be purchasing from either JNS or cleancut. Here are my final options:
> 
> ...



It seems that you really badly want the hammered or damascus finish which is absolutely fine of course, but like Matus said, other than the itinomonn and the Yoshikane (which is a carbon knife btw), these are super handle heavy knives. Yes the F&F is flawless, but the performance is very mediocre. Also the Yaxels and Miyabis are factory made compared to the Itinomonn and Yoshikane which are handmade. 

Your earlier list was much better IMO. The Ikeda, Takamura and Kurosaki you had are all worthwhile choices. They are also handmade by a blade smith and will have superior performance compared to Yaxel and Miyabi. 

I did not mean to steer you away from them when I earlier gave you other options from those same makers. If you can look past the hammer and damascus finish, then the Itinomonn is a very good choice (like it's been said before), but if you feel you'll regret not getting the damascus or hammered finish and feel a full carbon blade is ok then the Yoshikane is a very respected option. 

If it needs to be SS then I would go back to your earlier list and choose from the Takamura, Ikeda and Kurosaki group.

If you want to order from Cleancut then how about this Kurosaki with hammered finish?
http://cleancut.se/butik/knivserier/kurosaki-2-serier/kurosaki/kockkniv2015-01-16-15-03-42-detail
It should be SS clad, but I'm not sure as it's not mentioned in the text, but other vendors who have the same knife with SS cladding. if your interested, then check with cleancut first.


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## guari (Dec 8, 2016)

Imho, you had a much better line up in your original list. 

You'll be hard pressed to get better bang for the buck than with the itimmon, takamura and kurosaki. 

That one from cleancut really means business, I have a bunka from the same line and it is an amazing cutter


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## fatboylim (Dec 8, 2016)

Matus said:


> It is OK that you have hard time to choose - it is VERY overwhelming at the beginning and truth to be told, there are too many nice knives out there
> 
> From the list you posted I would only consider the Yoshikane.
> 
> ...



All good suggestions by Matus. Yoshikane, itinomonn both great. Just be aware, the Ikeda is good but this is the younger guy who is good. The older Ikeda is crazy expensive but regarded as good as Shig, but around the same price!


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## Nemo (Dec 8, 2016)

JaVa said:


> It seems that you really badly want the hammered or damascus finish which is absolutely fine of course, but like Matus said, other than the itinomonn and the Yoshikane (which is a carbon knife btw), these are super handle heavy knives. Yes the F&F is flawless, but the performance is very mediocre.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I have Yoshi skd (not shirogami) but otherwise similar looking knife. I'm not sure if the grind is the same, but I quite like its performance. Yes it's a workhorse but food release is great and it gets very sharp.


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## JaVa (Dec 8, 2016)

Nemo said:


> JaVa said:
> 
> 
> > It seems that you really badly want the hammered or damascus finish which is absolutely fine of course, but like Matus said, other than the itinomonn and the Yoshikane (which is a carbon knife btw), these are super handle heavy knives. Yes the F&F is flawless, but the performance is very mediocre.
> ...


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 8, 2016)

Regarding EU import VAT: In some cases, if your carrier neglects to charge it, or if it was not charged due to misdeclaration of value, YOU are legally responsible to talk to the customs authorities and pay it. There have been cases where authorities had gotten hold of sale histories of asian ebay sellers that habitually misdeclared, and went on to not only charge but fine buyers.


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## jbuchan359 (Dec 8, 2016)

Well.. I finally made my decision, and as you all hinted towards, performance outweighed aesthetics in the end.

Based on the overwhelming amount of recommendations, I chose to go for the Itinomonn StainLess Kasumi 210mm Wa Gyuto. I'll be sure to get some photos once it arrives.

One more thing.. and I realise I should probably create another post under the 'sharpening' section, could you please advise the best sharpening stone setup for a beginner. As I'm sure you can all relate, Christmas is hard on the bank! So the more reasonably priced the better. Perhaps a range between £40-£100?

Regards,
Jordan.


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## DamageInc (Dec 8, 2016)

Well, you would have saved some money on shipping if you had waited with the purchase so you could get a stone shipped with the knife from JNS.

Good choice on the knife btw.


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## Nemo (Dec 8, 2016)

Thanks for clarifying JaVa.


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## jbuchan359 (Dec 8, 2016)

DamageInc said:


> Well, you would have saved some money on shipping if you had waited with the purchase so you could get a stone shipped with the knife from JNS.
> 
> Good choice on the knife btw.



I agree, but the boss was adamant on ordering the knife tonight to ensure it was here in time! If all goes well with the knife, I'll probably look to JNS for an additional knife to add to the collection. Perhaps a pairing or vegtable knife.

Regards,
Jordan


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## Nemo (Dec 8, 2016)

jbuchan359 said:


> Well.. I finally made my decision, and as you all hinted towards, performance outweighed aesthetics in the end.
> 
> Based on the overwhelming amount of recommendations, I chose to go for the Itinomonn StainLess Kasumi 210mm Wa Gyuto. I'll be sure to get some photos once it arrives.
> 
> ...



Jordan, I'd start a thread in Sharpening Station" for this purpose.


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## Nemo (Dec 8, 2016)

jbuchan359 said:


> I agree, but the boss was adamant on ordering the knife tonight to ensure it was here in time! If all goes well with the knife, I'll probably look to JNS for an additional knife to add to the collection. Perhaps a pairing or vegtable knife.
> 
> Regards,
> Jordan


Or another gyuto. And another. And Another.....irate1:


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## gaijin (Dec 9, 2016)

jbuchan359 said:


> I agree, but the boss was adamant on ordering the knife tonight to ensure it was here in time! If all goes well with the knife, I'll probably look to JNS for an additional knife to add to the collection. Perhaps a pairing or vegtable knife.
> 
> Regards,
> Jordan



Good for you, JNS just announced a holiday vacation, meaning that ordering from now on will be delivered next year.  (and a 15% discount on most items too...)


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## guari (Dec 10, 2016)

Curious to know what you got!


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## jbuchan359 (Dec 2, 2017)

guari said:


> Curious to know what you got!



Apologies for the delayed response! I ended up getting the Itinomonn semi-stainless 210 Gyuto! It's served me well over the past year.


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## Matus (Dec 2, 2017)

Glad to hear that  I have to admit - today (one year later) I would give you pretty much the same recommendation.


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## JaVa (Dec 2, 2017)

Always fun to hear when someone found the right knife. Congrats! 

...and I agree with Matus 100%.


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## pc9111 (Dec 4, 2017)

Itinomonn Is a great knife , congrats


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## Qualitycookie (Dec 11, 2017)

Devon_Steven said:


> In the UK this is called customs duty, or import duty.
> 
> You can read all about it straight from the horse's mouth here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...tice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users
> 
> ...



Thank you for this run down. good information.


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