# Breadmaker recommendation request



## Barashka (Jun 7, 2020)

Hello,
My grocery delivery sometimes omits bread, as they are out, and I actually tried making it myself ... It turned out passable for the first try, but I'm lazy.
I'll try these no-knead recipes as well, but I'm wondering if people here have recommendations for breadmakers.

Home usage, once a week, budget ~$300.
Plan to make mostly whole wheat with mixed in metric ton of nuts and stuff. I'm aiming for fluffy insides with really crusty outsides. Don't care for gluten-free options etc.
I'm told it's better to use the breadmaker to make the dough and still bake in the oven to get a crustier crust, so if you have mixer/kneader/proofer only options, I'd love to hear those.

So far top of the list is this:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002XVUAOU



Thank you.
Cheers.


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## ExistentialHero (Jun 7, 2020)

I have the Zojirushi Virtuoso (very similar to the linked machine) and like it a lot. The two-paddle setup actually does make a big difference.
That said, it's also worth considering buying one for ten bucks at a thrift store if you can find one.


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## daveb (Jun 7, 2020)

Heresy. Kitchenaid 7 qt ftw.

And you can also make cookies!


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## Barashka (Jun 7, 2020)

Lol. No KitchenAid please .. I have little self-control, that thing will give me a heart attack within 6 months.

I haven't been terribly successful at finding worthy things at thrift stores .. I'll keep both eyes out though.


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## Matus (Jun 7, 2020)

daveb said:


> Heresy. Kitchenaid 7 qt ftw.
> 
> And you can also make cookies!


KitchenAid is for hipsters, get a Kenwood Chef Titanium XL.


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## Juztian (Jun 7, 2020)

I have a Varimixer Teddy 5L, it is amazing. It's on the pricey side, but for me it is well worth it. It's really quiet, strong and super sturdy. Its all metal and almost weighs double that of the Kenwood Chef Titanium XL, but again it's made to last in a professional kitchen environment. All the bakers and pastry chef i know use one.


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## Barashka (Jun 7, 2020)

I doubt Kenwood XL or Teddy can be found for sub $300 .. but yeh, both look like they mean business.


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## Corradobrit1 (Jun 7, 2020)

Kitchenaid is the Chelsea Miller of breadmakers. Get the real deal. Panasonic SD-RD250. Been using one for the past 8 years. Can't remember the last time I bought a loaf in the US.

Seriously its got a French bread option that really will give you what you want. Its the only program I use. Tall loaves, that get a crispy crust but soft in the center. There's even a trap door for delivering nuts and dried fruit, olives etc at the appropriate moment. Its a 6 hour cycle and I tend to make 2 loaves every week. When cool I cut in half and freeze one portion. The loaves tend to stay fresh and edible for 3-4 days. One thing to remember, get quality yeast and store appropriately. I find Krogers fast rise bread yeast in sachets to be consistently good and the best of the brands I've tried.

I've also heard good things about Zojirushi


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## daveb (Jun 7, 2020)




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## Matus (Jun 7, 2020)

Barashka said:


> I doubt Kenwood XL or Teddy can be found for sub $300 .. but yeh, both look like they mean business.



I apologize, I was just poking fun at Dave. I bake bread now myself, but have the possibility to do it from scratch, so I do. But I totally see the appeal of a bread maker.


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## Barashka (Jun 8, 2020)

lol, no worries, Kitchenaid apparently a popular subject.


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## Lizzardborn (Jun 10, 2020)

Can I ask which parts of your current process you find too labor intensive?


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## Barashka (Jun 11, 2020)

"intensive" is a strong word. It's perfectly do-able once a week that I need to do it, but automation would be nice.
Specifically kneading and proof timing .. some recipes call for quite a bit of attention, good timing .. and how things happen, I could be a few hours off.


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## backdoc (Jun 11, 2020)

I made this recipe this week for the first time. I thought it was fast and easy. I used my kitchenaid though.


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## Corradobrit1 (Jun 11, 2020)

French loaf from my Panasonic


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## Barashka (Jun 12, 2020)

Those look great!
I'm not quite that far along ...
I get enough rise and bounce, but my pan is far too wide and I don't spend enough time shaping.


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## Lars (Jun 12, 2020)

Matus said:


> KitchenAid is for hipsters, get a Kenwood Chef Titanium XL.


Titanium is for snobs - I picked this up for €80 last year


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## Corradobrit1 (Jun 12, 2020)

I like the all in one systems. Just put the flour, yeast, water salt and a little oil in the pan, start the program and pull out the finished loaf at the end. So easy.


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## backdoc (Jun 12, 2020)

Barashka said:


> Those look great!
> I'm not quite that far along ...
> I get enough rise and bounce, but my pan is far too wide and I don't spend enough time shaping.
> 
> View attachment 83756


That looks delicious.


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## Barashka (Jun 12, 2020)

backdoc said:


> That looks delicious.


Thank you! 2nd loaf ever. It was .. fair. 
I ordered 4lb of seeds and will try to add a bunch more sugar/salt to make it a bit more impactful.


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## jwpark (Jun 12, 2020)

You really don't need a bread maker. There are plenty of good no knead recipes out there. I started with those and now bake sourdough loaves at home.


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## Barashka (Jun 14, 2020)

My 3rd attempt .. quite edible! though a bit more gewy then I'd like/last time, maybe seeds sucked up too much water, not sure .. also will try backing without a lid for even more crust.


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## Michi (Jun 15, 2020)

Barashka said:


> My 3rd attempt .. quite edible!


Congratulations! It's fun, isn't it? 



Barashka said:


> though a bit more gewy then I'd like/last time, maybe seeds sucked up too much water, not sure .. also will try backing without a lid for even more crust.


I'm far from being an expert at this point. But, from looking at the crumb, I am guessing that there may have been insufficient gluten development. You got some oven spring, but not a all that much, which also suggests that the gluten network may not have been as strong as it could be.

I'd make sure to thoroughly knead the dough and check that, before the bulk rise, the dough passes the window pane test. If not, wait another half hour and do a few more slap-and-folds until you have good gluten.

For baking, I pre-heat a dutch oven to 260 ºC and bake for 30 minutes with the lid on. This traps steam and helps to create a nice crispy crust. (Without steam, the crust will be only so-so.) Then take the lid off, reduce temperature to 230 ºC, and bake for 20 more minutes.

Final tip: make sure your starter is really active before mixing it into the dough. It makes a big difference.

Here is one I made last night:


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## madelinez (Jun 15, 2020)

That's one of the best looking breads I've seen. All my attempts so far have been disappointing.


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## Corradobrit1 (Jun 15, 2020)

Michi said:


> I pre-heat a dutch oven to 260 ºC


fnarr fnarr


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## Michi (Jun 15, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> fnarr fnarr


?


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## madelinez (Jun 15, 2020)

Michi said:


> ?


What ratio of flours are you using, all 100% white baker's flour?


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## Michi (Jun 15, 2020)

I'll post the recipe shortly


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## Corradobrit1 (Jun 15, 2020)

Michi said:


> ?


Dutch oven has another meaning.


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## Michi (Jun 15, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Dutch oven has another meaning.


Oh, I didn't know that. I think I can make a fair guess at what that other meaning might be…


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## Michi (Jun 15, 2020)

madelinez said:


> What ratio of flours are you using, all 100% white baker's flour?


Here is the recipe: Sourdough rye beer bread


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## KenHash (Jun 15, 2020)

Zoujirushi Virtuoso. Only one recomended by King Arthur Flour. Used mine for 6 years never a failure or problem. Put it up for sale just before moving and a buyer wanted it within 48 hours of the ad being put up. And had people asking if it was still available afterwards.


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## backdoc (Jun 15, 2020)

Michi said:


> Congratulations! It's fun, isn't it?
> 
> 
> I'm far from being an expert at this point. But, from looking at the crumb, I am guessing that there may have been insufficient gluten development. You got some oven spring, but not a all that much, which also suggests that the gluten network may not have been as strong as it could be.
> ...


Looks great! Definitely a different crumb structure.


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## ExistentialHero (Jun 15, 2020)

KenHash said:


> Zoujirushi Virtuoso. Only one recomended by King Arthur Flour. Used mine for 6 years never a failure or problem. Put it up for sale just before moving and a buyer wanted it within 48 hours of the ad being put up. And had people asking if it was still available afterwards.



I have one of these as well. It's excellent. The two-paddle kneading setup really helps, and it can make real horizonal sandwich loaves which is important for my toast-devouring toddler.

The KA recipes are also uniformly excellent. I was making this one twice a week until local supplies of the White Whole Wheat flour ran out: 100% Whole Wheat Bread for the Bread Machine

Now I have a sourdough starter running and make this one instead: Bread Machine Sourdough Bread
It uses ADY for leavening and the starter is mostly for flavor, but it works really well and delivers consistent results with predictable timing, which, again, is important for my toddler


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## Barashka (Jun 15, 2020)

Michi said:


> Here is one I made last night:


That's gorgeous! Excellent job!
I'll try to follow the recipe soon, I don't have half the ingredients : | (including beer, pretty sure port won't do, or chartreuse .. my only two alcohols)


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## ExistentialHero (Jun 19, 2020)

ExistentialHero said:


> I have one of these as well. It's excellent. The two-paddle kneading setup really helps, and it can make real horizonal sandwich loaves which is important for my toast-devouring toddler.
> 
> The KA recipes are also uniformly excellent. I was making this one twice a week until local supplies of the White Whole Wheat flour ran out: 100% Whole Wheat Bread for the Bread Machine
> 
> ...



Current loaf from that last KA recipe:


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## BazookaJoe (Jun 21, 2020)

I can't thank you guys enough. Made some bread the old fashioned way hand kneading, some in the Kitchenaid mixer, got just ok results. Never knew about the no-knead recipes before reading this thread. Tried the KA recipe No-Knead Crusty White Bread and it was the best!


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## Barashka (Jun 22, 2020)

Very nicely done people!
Here's my latest attempt. Same no kneed recipe, but a new half whole wheat flour.
Quite happy with it! I'll work on the crust and maybe some more steam in the oven to ad some bounce.
I might not need a breadmaker now ...


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## Michi (Jun 23, 2020)

Barashka said:


> Here's my latest attempt.


Aha!!! 

That's a big improvement. Looks like you got much better oven spring and a nicer crumb this time. Looks tasty!


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## JakeLoveshighCarbon (Jun 23, 2020)

It seemed like the no knead recipes were basically as much work as the kneaded variety. People seem to like it for the bubble formation, but doesnt save all that much time. 

I reccomend goodwill bread makers. I plug them in at the store to make sure that they start kneading right away. Some brands set for the first couple minutes which I dont like because sometimes I just want it to mix and not bake.


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## Barashka (Jul 20, 2020)

An update!

Tried adding cranberries .. did pretty nice.
Tried adding cherries .. becomes amazing : P

Tried adding milk, but that makes the bread faaar too soft for me.
Tried adding white wine .. and that makes the bread very aromatic and very puffy but not like milk-squishy. I think it somehow diminishes salt effect? seems like taste is more boring, but I may have just added less salt.

I'm going to try adding honey, so far brown sugar isn't making it sweet enough.
I'm going to try baking open lid for last 20 minutes at 450 instead of 400 for more crust ..


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## VicVox72 (Aug 2, 2020)

I love making no knead pure rye sour dough breads / or minimal knead rye spelt mix sourdoughs.

1.5 cups water mixed with 1/3 cup very happy rye starter. Mix in (gently!) 2.5 cups rye flour and 7-11g of salt. Pour wet mix into buttered tall baking form. Do this in the evening and in the morning heat oven up to 400F. Bake for at least 20min before checking up on it. Then periodically check internal temperature. Remove from oven at 98Celsius internal temp. Remove from form. Wait at least 1 hour. Dig in!

You can change the flour composition quite a lot from pure rye to rye with spelt (note, you likely need a little bit more total flour, so substitute 1 part rye with perhaps 1.15 parts spelt). And you need to increase the amount of kneading you give it proportionally to the amount of spelt. I'd go up to 1 cup rye plus 2 cups spelt at maximum and a very thorough hand knead after mixing.

You can add seeds, herbs, spices. I often add a liberal amount of caraway. Cumin seeds are also nice. Anise and fennel also give fun results.


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## mlau (Aug 18, 2020)

OP.....best bread maker? 

Get a Le Creuset dutch oven!
Add no-knead dough (preferably sourdough). Let rise. Serve with tons of butter.


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## VicVox72 (Aug 18, 2020)

mlau said:


> OP.....best bread maker?
> 
> Get a Le Creuset dutch oven!
> Add no-knead dough (preferably sourdough). Let rise. Serve with tons of butter.




Or start with Lodge at 20% of the price to give it a virtually risk free try


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## mlau (Aug 21, 2020)

VicVox72 said:


> Or start with Lodge at 20% of the price to give it a virtually risk free try



Fair enough. Did I mention that I bought mine used? I think I paid $100 for my 3.5 qt from an ex-navy ordinance guy who....blew up cast iron for a living.


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## VicVox72 (Aug 21, 2020)

That's definitely a great price (conditional it hadn't been used as target practice yet  )


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## Uncle Mike (Aug 23, 2020)

Advantage of a bread machine - it’s 108° here today and I don’t want to turn on the oven. Preheat oven with stone at 450° for one hour, bake for 40 min. That’s a no go.


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