# Stone Review Thread - 800 to 2000 Grit Synthetic Stones



## Steampunk (Apr 1, 2020)

I’ve used a lot of stones in this range, but each has their purpose, so I struggle to get rid of them despite the massive amount of redundancy in my collection… Here are my findings on them. As always, please feel free to share your reviews on any stones in this grit range you’ve used. 

Without further ado…

*JNS 800 Matukusuyama - *

If you’re sharpening really nice knives, made from steels that make you love to sharpen, this is not the stone for you. If you are sharpening knives made from steels that make you want to walk in front of a bus rather than touch; gummy German/Swiss and Chinese stainless, mass produced AUS or VG series J-Knives, badly heat treated high-vanadium CPM steels in flavors like S30V, etc… YOU MUST OWN THIS STONE. If I was setting up a stall at a farmer’s market offering hand sharpening, this, a 220-325 grit diamond plate, and a 1-micron Norton diamond pasted leather strop would be what I’d bring. 

This stone EATS softer wear resistant steels faster than some stones which are twice as coarse, yet at the same time fights burrs well, and one can easily create a very aggressive and toothy shaving-sharp edge directly on this stone on steels that normally cling to their burrs stubbornly. The abrasives feel ‘sharp’; almost like SiC, and the soft yet sharp feedback feels good on knives that are normally like nails on a chalkboard. It’s simply an 800lb Gorilla that effortlessly batters obstinate edges into submission, but it’s not without its’ vices… 

Like most 800lb Gorillas, you can’t take it to a dinner party and expect it to be civilized. On harder, finer steels, it’s just too aggressive in both cut and feedback, and oh, does it like a drink… This is one of those stones that you can watch water pour through, and requires constant splashing even after permasoaking. It’s also a very soft stone. On edge bevels, typically it cuts faster than it dishes or needs watered, so that’s okay. However, on wide or single bevels it dishes, and builds up a dry, scratchy, sandy mud faster than it cuts. It also leaves a matte, sandblasted finish on both the higane and the jigane equally, which hides or even creates a lot of sins in the grind rather than leveling them, and also subsequently makes it nearly impossible to generate any sort of proper polish on the core steel. Some like that double-matte look, but I don’t. 

Because it’s a soft stone, lapping is pretty easy. It’s a big ol’ brick, so will nevertheless manage to have a long life. 

Don’t even think of touching this stone with woodworking tools or razors. 

*Naniwa Professional / Chosera 800 - *

No two stones of the same grit could be more dissimilar than the JNS 800, and the Naniwa Professional 800… This stone is the 800lb Gorilla’s cousin that went to Cambridge, wears a tuxedo, and can float in the politest company; making witty small talk… Where the JNS 800 would try to serenade you with ‘Musical Arm Farts’ before smashing a piecrust curio table into pulp as a sort of encore, the Naniwa 800 can impress an audience of delicate sensibilities with a classical tenor. 

If you’re working on knives that make you enjoy sharpening (Japanese carbons, fine-grained SS and semi-stainless tool steels, etc.), this is a stone you’ll love, because it’s pretty versatile… It cuts as quickly as you’d ever want a medium stone to do, is hard and resists dishing well, is nearly splash & go, leaves a very refined scratch pattern for its grit that is toothy, but feels a little sharper than you’d anticipate, has a deliciously smooth tactile feedback, and even creates a subtle but notable contrast on wide or single bevel knives; courtesy of a polite level of mud generation which doesn’t stain like the Naniwa Professional 600. Perfect? Close to it…

Due to the hardness and density of this stone, it’s a bit of a bear to flatten, but not the absolute worst. That’s reserved for another stone in this list… It’s ‘sort of’ splash & go… It’ll hold its water after a couple splashes over the course of a minute, and will start to release abrasives and cut at its best after a few minutes of water exposure. This stone isn’t as prone to cracking as the finer Naniwa magnesia stones, but still one has to dry it carefully, and it can take several days to a week before it’s completely dry again. So, I’d call it ‘Fussy Splash & Go’. 

You can easily use this stone on razors, or finer woodworking tools… As it’s not prone to dishing, delivers a very consistent scratch pattern, and has a gentle tactile feel suitable for fine/thin edges. 

*Shapton Pro 1000 - *

Firstly, this stone feels coarser in use than 1000 grit, because it is… The micron rating puts it in the range of how Naniwa rates their 800 grit stones, though it lacks the smooth, creamy feeling of the Naniwas at that grit level. It cuts edge bevels efficiently on simpler carbon and SS formulas (1.4116, 12C27, AEB-L, Ginsan, 440C, VG-10, 10xx, Shirogami, etc.) without much fuss… It’s perfectly splash & go so is very non-thirsty, dishes very little, and loads only a bit on some SS. However, the stone has a somewhat ‘dead’ but abrasive feel on edges, like an emery board, and I’ve never been particularly impressed with the quality of edge it creates. Because of its hardness and speed of cutting, it’s somewhat challenging to deburr on, and even when one does deburr it fully, it just never seems to cut as well as some other stones in the 800-1000 range. It also doesn’t cut as well on steels with tungsten or vanadium carbides. 

Where this stone is simply incredible, is when thinning wide bevel knives, and sharpening single bevel ones. It cuts far quicker than its grit suggests when thinning clad knives, without any mud at all, and very little dishing. This allows you to create very precise bevels, which - whilst lacking any contrast - are very easy to refine and build contrast on using a finishing stone, and lack the scratching and wear above the shinogi line common with coarse and muddy stones. It’s simply the ideal maintenance stone to use for wide or single bevels… I would take this stone - for the speed, precision, and lack of mess in the way it thins clad blades - over any of the 300-400 grit stones I have tried to date for this particular application. Stainless or Carbon/Iron cladding; it doesn’t matter… I like to follow it with the JNS Red Aoto Matukusuyama, a Belgian Coticule, or medium-fine J-Nat to start to build contrast. 

It’s a moderate PITA to flatten, but even when used for thinning doesn’t need too much, so it’s tolerable. As I said, it’s one of those rare Splash & Go stones, that doesn’t absorb a single drop or need any time to get ready. 

It’s hard and consistent enough to use on woodworking tools or razors, but I can’t say it feels nice on either. Just does the job. 


*Shapton Glass Stone 1000 - *

In many ways, this is very similar to the Shapton Pro 1K, but with a few additional advantages and trade-offs. To save time, I’ll just talk about these… 

It does all the things that the Shapton Pro 1K is good at, but it keeps cutting on tungsten and vanadium carbide steels just when the 1K hits a wall. This is the perfect stone to set your edge up for the 3K HR or 4K HR Shapton Glass stones… It’s still not one I’d ever want to finish on, but it will at least refine the scratches from a 300-400 grit stone or diamond plate well enough to get it ready for the grit that does finally start to feel good to cut with. 

Here’s the downside… It’ll last probably 25-50% less time than the Shapton Pro if you use it for thinning. Also, it has that nails-on-a-chalkboard-like, grating sensation under the blade that makes it even less pleasant than the Pro. 

I’d recommend this stone for someone trying to sharpen something like R-2, Elmax, CPM-S35VN, ZDP-189, etc. Nothing too high in vanadium carbides to genuinely require diamonds, but is still abrasion resistant enough to challenge most conventional stones. Particularly if you use it in a progression with other Shapton HR class Glass Stones. You use this stone because you have to. Sometimes, it’s just the only synthetic stone that works. 

On razors and woodworking tools it’s certainly consistent and hard enough to use, but it feels really unpleasant under the blade. 

_*To Be Continued... *_


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## Steampunk (Apr 1, 2020)

*Gesshin 1000 - *

You can buy this stone either in its house-brick XL size, or as part of the Gesshin 1000/6000 combo stone… Honestly, it’s a dashed good true 1K stone to work on, either way. If you prefer knives of a relatively simple steel formula (1.4116, 12C27, AEB-L, Ginsan, 440C, VG-10, A2, 10xx, Shirogami, etc.), and you want a big, comfortable ol’ brick of a stone that’s perfectly balanced in its feel and performance… One you can just plonk onto your sharpening station, or have living on its own in a shoe-box sized plastic tote to perma-soak… I’d say this is your perfect 1-stone solution, in either of its varients; depending upon whether or not you feel you need the finer stone on the backside.

Barring the Naniwa Professional/Chosera 800, I’ve never encountered a stone this perfectly balanced in how it performs as the Gesshin 1K… However, this one’s available in much bigger sizes (Which are comfier to use than inch-thick or less stones.), and isn’t as fussy when it comes to soaking/drying. It’s maybe a little less versatile regarding steel (It’s not the best on Aogami or other tungsten carbide carbons, is cuspy on D2, and is pretty much useless on steels like high-hardness ZDP-189, CPM-M4/HAP-40, etc.), but if you don’t work with those metals, it’s frankly a better choice. This is part of the same series as the Gesshin 400X stone, so if you need coarser the feel should be compatible.

Everything on this stone is middle of the road… Cutting speed, tactile feel, dishing resistance, mud buildup/abrasive release, contrast when thinning wide/single bevels, ease of flattening, ease of deburring, the edge quality it leaves… It’s just always ‘good’. That sounds boring, but really, it’s not… To have a stone that you can rely on in that way to always impress just a tiny little bit in your everyday sharpening situations, is pretty incredible.

It still dishes enough that I wouldn’t use it on woodworking tools, and it’s kind of cuspy on razors in terms of abrasive consistency, though the feedback isn’t too bad.

*Gesshin 1200 Splash & Go - *

This stone, like the one coming after it in this list, has a very limited scope… However, it sings when you get it in its ‘happy place’. Its happy place is: ‘high-hardness Aogami edge bevels that have already been cut-in on a 400-600 grit stone, and need refining prior to the finishing grit’. In this situation, it’s the most deliciously creamy of any 800-2K grit stone I have ever used. Its feedback is gentle, and sensual as a fingertip brushing against your skin.

Get it out of this situation, and it really starts to suck… It’s in the same vein as the JNS Red Aoto Matukusuyama, as being like trying to sharpen on a piece of grit-laden butter. It wears and dishes like nobody’s business, and really should be offered in an XL version like its 600 grit precursor. Even as a home cook, you’ll wear this (Not cheap) stone out in less than 3-years if it’s your only stone… That cushy, cloud-like feel to sharpen on comes at a price… If you’re a newbie, I totally would not recommend this stone, as you will do nothing but gouge it. Deburring is easy, but the slurry-dulling and edge convexing created by this stone means it’s next to impossible to create a shaving edge on steels under 63 HRC. Don’t even try to thin on this stone… You’ll wear the poor thing out, and just make a mountain of thick, pudding-like mud, before you make any progress. The result is just a middle-road Kasumi, with some hidden sins, and not much material removed. It’ll remove metal on vanadium carbide steels like CPM-M4/HAP-40, or high-chromium carbide steels like ZDP-189, due to the high abrasive release, but will also dull the edge as fast as sharpen it. To top it off, it’s not a splash & go stone by any means, though it’s advertised as such… You HAVE to perma-soak it to get it to hold water properly. It’s durable for a resinoid stone stored in water 24/7, but I’d never classify this as S&G.

If you have the right knives, though, none of this matters… On 63-67hrc Aogami, or maybe Shirogami in the 65+ HRC range, it’ll shave off the stone, and the process of creating that edge will feel AMAZING. Build the edge on a good 400-600 grit stone, transition on this stone, and then take it to a natural, and you’ll be in sharpening heaven. Jon… Please give us an XL version of this stone! Paired with the 600 XL for the initial work, and you’d have the most delicious pair of synthetic bricks to sharpen on ever created for sharpening purists in the lightweight, coarse-medium range.

Don’t take chisels or planes to this… Just don’t. Razors? Please… No. It’ll feel lovely, but you’ll end up with a convex and somewhat irregular edge you’ll have to fix on the next finer stone. Not a good idea.

*To Be Continued... *


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## Steampunk (Apr 1, 2020)

*Gesshin 2000 -*

On ‘simple steels’ (Non tungsten or vanadium carbide), stainless or carbon, in a moderate HRC range (58-62), this is an amazing stone… It cuts Shapton-like precise edge bevels WAY faster than its grit suggests, whilst leaving a ‘coarse/toothy 2K’ edge, having a nice feedback, and resisting dishing as well as the Shapton 2K; just with a better feel. I love to stop Ginsan on this stone. If you’re sharpening Shirogami/10xx of any hardness, AEB-L, Ginsanko, N690/VG-10, etc, this stone cuts closer to 1K than 2K, whilst leaving a much more refined edge. On these sorts of steels, it can totally pick up from a 300-400 grit stone with less effort than the Shapton 2K’s.

Get it out of its comfort zones, and dear heavens, does it have some sins… This is THE WORST stone to flatten I have EVER tried. It’s [expletive] painful to get back to usable condition after use… It resists an Atoma 140 more than any stone I’ve ever tried. If your plate’s not fresh as a daisy, I pity you trying to get this stone flat, which is far from flat out of the box. It’s almost like trying to flatten a Soft Arkansas. On tungsten steels like Aogami, let alone vanadium steels like R-2, CPM-M4/HAP-40, etc, it starts feeling like a ‘2K stone with a rough finish’, rather than the ‘1K stone that leaves a 2K finish’ it normally is… Furthermore, this stone glazes, and loads with slurry (Which, if carbon, rusts.) like I’ve never seen on a sharpening Japanese water stone. It takes so much lapping to clean it up… It’s simply not worth it to thin knives on this stone. Between the thinning and the glazing, the mild contrast it creates over a Shapton 2K just isn’t worth it on wide or single bevel knives.

Just like the Gesshin 1200 S&G, though, if you get this stone in its comfort zone, it’s the only stone you’d ever want to use… It's just that that comfort zone is a bit narrow. It's a specific stone, for a specific purpose. It’s a perma-soaker, but holds its water very well once it’s saturated. It’s dish resistant, but a nightmare to flatten. It’s slow and unrefined on wear resistant steels, but fast and precise on more normal ones in a way that belays its grit rating. Not a great thinning stone, but it’s incredible on edges.

It loads on woodworking tools, and the grit spread is too wide for razors… Use it for knives, and enjoy.

*Shapton Pro 2000 -*

2K is a sweet-spot in the Shapton range… The 2K Pro in particular, is creamy deliciousness. It’s a fast, tactile, extremely dish resistant, true splash & go 2000 grit stone, with a narrow grit spread, resists loading, and did I say it feels amazing? The 2K Pro is in that same sort of range as the 4K Glass Stones. Most Shapton stones are effective, but rather bland in terms of how they feel. These ones aren’t. These ones are special.

What do you use it for, though? It creates zero contrast on wide/single bevels, and is notably slower than the 1K pro on these… It still blows wind on tungsten/vanadium carbide steels. The edge it leaves lacks bite compared to other 1-2K stones, but still doesn’t have the push-cutting refinement of a 4-6K stone. As lovely as this stone is, it’s sort of in a hinterland… It’s a stone you’d love to finish kitchen knives on, but the end result is always just a bit ‘meh’.

What’s it good for? Razors… This is my favorite bevel setter on straight razors that I own. It’s fast enough to do the job on all but resto projects, while having the smoothness of a finisher under the blade, and leaving a consistent finish that makes refinement on a 4-6K synth, natural pre-finisher, or Coti on medium slurry quite easy.

It’s a little harder than the Shapton Pro 1K to flatten, but needs it less, and still isn’t the PITA the Gesshin 2K is.

Razors… Yes! Woodworking tools and kitchen knives… It’s kind of neither here nor there, though you wish it wasn’t, as it has a lovely feel and hardness.

*Shapton Glass Stone 2000 -*

The Glass 2K is actually quite a different stone than the Pro 2K… Where the Pro-line starts feeling nice around the 2K range, the Glass range doesn’t start feeling truly creamy until 3K. The 2K Glass is a hard, slate-like stone, which is even more dish resistant and faster cutting than the 2K Pro on high-carbide steels, but trades that added precision and performance for a slightly worse feel, and increased loading/glazing.

If you’re sharpening something like R-2 or SRS-15, this stone is a wonderful place to start for routine maintenance… It creates an edge equally refined as the Shapton 2K Pro, but a little ‘crisper’ feeling in use. It’s fast, but not too fast feeling for thin edges like Takamuras or Akifusas, and feels a lot nicer on these low-vanadium steels than the 1K Glass. Like all Shapton stones, it’s useless at creating contrast on wide/single bevels… Once you’re in the 2K range, it also slows down enough that the Shapton line no longer makes sense. The 1K Pro is awesome on those sorts of knives, but once you get into the 2K Pro/2K Glass, there’s zero reason to try to use them over other medium stone options.

Out of what medium grit stones I’ve tried, this is at the cusp of what could be considered a medium stone. It’s a whisker away from pre-finishing… I’d use it on moderately wear resistant steels, for edge bevel sharpening, following the Shapton Glass 500, and prior to something like the Shapton Glass 6000 HR.

I’d avoid it on woodworking tools, as it does load a bit with that much metal on the stone… On razors, it’s nice… Even more precise, with a crisper feeling edge than the 2K Pro, but does glaze the stone a bit.

-

Hope this helps…

*- Steampunk*


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Apr 1, 2020)

Wow, very helpful and informative. Thanks for taking the time, I really enjoyed reading.

Jason


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## Malcolm Johnson (Apr 2, 2020)

I’m quite pleased I read through this. Great information.


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## kayman67 (Apr 2, 2020)

All in all, I agree with pretty much everything and have most of these stones and some more.


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## kidsos (Apr 2, 2020)

Nice write up, thank you!


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## Garm (Apr 2, 2020)

Steampunk said:


> No two stones of the same grit could be more dissimilar than the JNS 800, and the Naniwa Professional 800… This stone is the 800lb Gorilla’s cousin that went to Cambridge, wears a tuxedo, and can float in the politest company; making witty small talk… Where the JNS 800 would try to serenade you with ‘Musical Arm Farts’ before smashing a piecrust curio table into pulp as a sort of encore, the Naniwa 800 can impress an audience of delicate sensibilities with a classical tenor.


This might just be the best paragraph I've read on KKF...ever!

I really enjoyed your reviews, and appreciate the work you've put into them.
It was also especially interesting to hear your thoughts on the SP 2k. This stone is so widely loved and celebrated on this forum as a kind of Goldilocks stone, and I always felt there must be some kind of hidden potential I wasn't able to coax out of it for whatever reason.
With my(admittedly poor/mediocre) technique I find the edges off this stone to both lack bite and aggression for this grit level. It also seems to leave a level of polish/luster that the actual edge refinement doesn't quite match. My edges off this stone are always a bit "meh", like you put it.


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## MartinJ (Apr 2, 2020)

Thanks for all the info man, very interesting


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## kayman67 (Apr 2, 2020)

I'm going to add some stones I've used for some time now and find myself liking more than the usual suspects. 

*Bester 1200*

This is a soaking stone, a bit complicated one. 
The Bester 1200 could very well be one of the best soakers money can buy, not really a star amongs suggestions though. This stone is many stones. 
Soak it for just a bit to get it working and you have this aggressive thing performing in front of you. It has been compared with a 400 grit behaviour.
Soak it well, at least several hours and you get this fine satin finish and one of the nicest feedbacks. 
Pretty slow dishing stone in general, for me at least. 

*Naniwa Traditional 2000* 

One very below the radar stone. It's really cheap in Europe, not so much in other parts of the world, so I do consider this. 
The stone is looked at like everything the Green brick of joy failed to be. It likes a bit of soaking. It's harder and faster, very velvet like though once it starts its thing. Worked well for most jobs I gave it. I feel like this is not a stone for aggressive sharpening styles. It just won't deliver the best it's capable of. Also it will dish much faster. 
The edge can be on the quite toothy side. 

*Naniwa Pro 2000*

Crazy fast stone with most usual alloys. 
Just before starting to write this I used it on AEB-L with a very nice HT, to take out some chipping and to make a completely new bevel. It ate that thing alive. The dark slurry is not just for show. This stone starts to polish very early to a bright level. In the past I had some carbon knives done to almost clean mirror. Might be the lowest grit stone I ever found capable of taking it so far. 
It does need some water, but not much. It is prone to cracks. I normally suggest making an epoxy protective layer as soon as possible. Also to clean it and wipe the water, not to le it sit and dry. I also prefer to make an epoxy bottom layer just to assure stability as much as possible while the stone gets thinner and thinner. This works for most stones. It's slow dishing for my routine. This stone saw dozens of knives and looks great.


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## MartinJ (Apr 2, 2020)

How do you do an epoxy base?


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## kayman67 (Apr 2, 2020)

This is how I do it. 

Tape the working face and the sides in such a way that you have raised edges on the bottom to hold the epoxy in place. This really does not have to be pretty. Just to be working.
As far as epoxy goes, I would use something that will cure slowly (don't pour it until you really have to, so be sure to check specific time on the package). In general epoxy is self levelling, so just make sure the working face is flat and the stone will sit on a flat surface. Also I would use epoxy that can be easily worked with (I can even shape it to some degree after). 
The bottom is rock solid, tested it myself as hard as possible after 48h.


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## KO88 (Apr 2, 2020)

missclick sry


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## MartinJ (Apr 3, 2020)

Thanks layman very useful, I have a Nani pro 400, it s around 1cm thick now I want to make a base for it


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## kayman67 (Apr 3, 2020)

It's not as cool as wood (or glass for some people), but it's easy to work with, takes little space, does the job.
About 90g (I guess that's roughly 3 ounces) of mixed epoxy should be enough. I work with numbers. Make sure to follow instructions specific to the epoxy you use when you mix everything.


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## MartinJ (Apr 3, 2020)

Yeah man thanks I'm gonna buy some next week. 
Not as cool as wood certainly but less space consuming and tool requiring


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## rob (Apr 3, 2020)

Thanks for effort and experience.

Loved reading this


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## BarryMM (Apr 4, 2020)

Nice write up, thanks!


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## Doffen (Apr 4, 2020)

Thank you for sharing. Very informative.


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## Forty Ounce (Apr 5, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> I'm going to add some stones I've used for some time now and find myself liking more than the usual suspects.
> 
> *Bester 1200*
> 
> ...


Absolutely hated my bester 1200.. even with permasoaking, it was still like a 400, but not a good 400. I figured I just got a bad one. Got rid of it and never looked back.


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## M1k3 (Apr 6, 2020)

Any chance you're also doing a high grit comparison? Or am I getting ahead of myself?


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## adam92 (Apr 6, 2020)

I'm very pleased I read through this. Great information.


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## Steampunk (Apr 6, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Any chance you're also doing a high grit comparison? Or am I getting ahead of myself?



The next one up I'm planning is a review of 3-6K grit synthetic stones, as time permits. 

- Steampunk


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Apr 11, 2020)

Hi Steampunk, 

Great reviews/impressions, thanks for taking the time to share it with your fellow sharpening nerds!
Do you, by chance, also happen to have a King Hyper or Cerax 1k and would be willing to share your thoughts on them?


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## big D (Apr 12, 2020)

Very nice reviews. Thank you for taking the time to write them out.
D.


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## Steampunk (Apr 12, 2020)

Kitchen-Samurai said:


> Do you, by chance, also happen to have a King Hyper or Cerax 1k and would be willing to share your thoughts on them?



I'm glad you enjoyed the thread... Alas, I haven't tested these yet.

- Steampunk


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## Cloudsmoker (Apr 14, 2020)

Steampunk said:


> *Gesshin 2000 -*
> 
> On ‘simple steels’ (Non tungsten or vanadium carbide), stainless or carbon, in a moderate HRC range (58-62), this is an amazing stone… It cuts Shapton-like precise edge bevels WAY faster than its grit suggests, whilst leaving a ‘coarse/toothy 2K’ edge, having a nice feedback, and resisting dishing as well as the Shapton 2K; just with a better feel. I love to stop Ginsan on this stone. If you’re sharpening Shirogami/10xx of any hardness, AEB-L, Ginsanko, N690/VG-10, etc, this stone cuts closer to 1K than 2K, whilst leaving a much more refined edge. On these sorts of steels, it can totally pick up from a 300-400 grit stone with less effort than the Shapton 2K’s.
> 
> ...


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## Cloudsmoker (Apr 14, 2020)

I have experienced most of the stones in this group and, IMO, your take is spot on the money. Great write up.


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## roughrider (Apr 17, 2020)

Very helpful notes on each stone. Thanks.


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## Ruso (Apr 24, 2020)

Great writeup! The only thing I am kind of weird about is that you say Gesshin 2K is hard to flatten. I use Atoma and never had any issue flattening the stone. In my experience it is much easier to flatten and keep flat than Chosera 800.


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