# Help with decision on a Coarse Stone/Options



## DanDan (Aug 11, 2017)

I had this all typed out earlier but found my computer with a black screen so I lost it all. I've done a ton of searching around the forums and still haven't made my mind up with all these options. The most recommended coarse stones seem to be either one of the coarse Gesshins or a JNS 300, but they're too cost prohibitive for me to get. So the best way is either to get something from Canada or Japan (if I wasn't so indecisive I could've had something from Japan by now). I'm also confused whether I should go for a stone or a diamond plate as I've seen people prefer that for crappy stainless in older threads, so I've included the i-Wood (although it's a bit more than I want to pay). 

Originally I was leaning towards Naniwa Super Stone 400, but now that I've typed out the list it looks like I'd prefer something cheaper. I was strongly considering a Shapton but I'm worried about how long it would last (but I've heard they dish slowly and they're 15mm which is only 5mm less than the 20mm thick stones). Now I find myself leaning towards a low grit brick that can take some abuse, but I'm still unsure. This is basically a "what would you get?", but any other suggestions are welcome. 

*LOCATION
What country are you in?*
Canada
_*STONE TYPE
What type of stone are you interested in: Synthetic or Natural?/Splash and go or soaker?/What grit range are you looking for?*_
Synthetic
Splash and go takes priority, but not a must if it doesn't fit the budget 
220-400 (give or take) 
*What stones do you currently use in your lineup?*
King 1000/4000 
*What is your absolute maximum budget for your stone?*
Around $50 CAD (give or take, shipping included) 
*STONE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?*
Home 
*What type of knives will you be sharpening? (Traditional Japanese: yanagi, usuba, deba or Western style gyuto, petty etc)/What type of steel will you be sharpening?*
I primarily need this to put new edges on some cheap stainless knives (I just sanded down some Henckels bolsters and the heels need a new edge). I also have some vintage stainless butchers that need fresh edges because they've seen good use. And I'm scared to say this one, but also looking for something that can do thinning work. But I'd also like something that is suitable for doing work on my Masakage (and future J-knives, if it lasts that long...). Which is why I'm leaning towards sticking to a stone.
*STONE MAINTENANCE
Do you use or have a flattening plate (Yes or no.)*
No. Currently using cheap flattening methods. 

*Considerations (low-high, shipping/tax included):*

Naniwa Omura 150: *$18.93 *(I have no clue what this one is or anything about it, is it a lobster? Anyway, included for fun because it's super cheap, I can also get the larger more preferable size for $31.74) 
Naniwa Ebi 400: *$39.37* (this is the 10mm thick one) 
Suehiro 'Chemical' 320: *$41.16*
Suehiro New Cerax 280: *$43.69*
Naniwa Traditional 220: *$46.85* (from PaulsFinest) 
Knifewear 220: *$47.46* (I assume this is just a restamped Naniwa traditional, and I wish there was more info or a review on the Knifewear branded stones, but they _claim_ it's one of the fastest coarse stones they've found and it dishes slower than others) 
Shapton Kuromaku 220: *$50.81*
Shapton Kuromaku 320: *$53.50*
Suehiro Cerax 320: *55.25*
King Deluxe 300: *$56.47*
i-Wood 150 or 300 diamond plate: *$69.18*
Naniwa Super Stone 400: *$75.10* (from PaulsFinest)


----------



## galvaude (Aug 11, 2017)

If you don't plan on sharpening many PM steel knives I would go with the King Deluxe 300, check Amazon, I paid 42.16CAD 2 months ago, took 6 weeks to deliver. Naniwa Traditional 220 is faster but wears faster too. PaulsFinest is a great place.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Aug 11, 2017)

I use King Deluxe 300 (as well as JNS Matukusuyama 300) and both are good for cheap stainless steel. Not sure if the King DX 300 is splash and go, but although JNS 300 is, it seems both benefit for a quick submersion in water.


----------



## K813zra (Aug 11, 2017)

I like my Cerax 320 quite a bit for a coarser stone. It is soft and wears quickly but does not melt under the blade when thinning. It is firm enough to work with narrow bevels too. The cutting speed and scratch pattern are nice as well. I jump directly to naturals from mine. 

If I were to go with a Shapton pro/kuro it would be the 220 over the 320. I found it to be a much faster stone. 

I can not say much about the others as I have not used them. I do have an I-wood for flattening but have never used it on steel.


----------



## PalmRoyale (Aug 11, 2017)

Have you considered an Atoma diamond plate? The Atoma 400 does an incredible job and leaves a very consistent scratch patern that's easily further refined with the Atoma 1200. You could even buy the regular Atoma 400 together with an Atoma 1200 replacement sheet, stick it to the other side of the 400 and you have a double sided plate. If you finish with light trailing strokes on the 1200 you get a shaving sharp edge.


----------



## WOK-a-holic (Aug 11, 2017)

KORIN KNIVES .com
300 grit diamond stone( splash and go )
model # ha-1092 8"× 3.5" $79.95 will last a lifetime


----------



## mise_en_place (Aug 12, 2017)

WOK-a-holic said:


> KORIN KNIVES .com
> 300 grit diamond stone( splash and go )
> model # ha-1092 8"× 3.5" $79.95 will last a lifetime



Interesting that it's double-sided.

My understanding of diamond stones was that the diamond spray is really only on the surface, so it will eventually get worn down. I don't know how long this takes, but I remember Jon (JKI) warning me about using a DMT XXC stone for any excessive work for this reason.

Please feel free to correct me, and certainly don't take my word for it.


----------



## DanDan (Aug 13, 2017)

galvaude said:


> If you don't plan on sharpening many PM steel knives I would go with the King Deluxe 300, check Amazon, I paid 42.16CAD 2 months ago, took 6 weeks to deliver. Naniwa Traditional 220 is faster but wears faster too. PaulsFinest is a great place.



Dang I must have missed out. The only one I see on amazon.ca is priced at $62.80. But six weeks is an awful long time to wait. At this point it's a decision between waiting for a splash and go stone from Japan or getting a soaker (which would come in a few days max from Paul). 



Marcelo Amaral said:


> I use King Deluxe 300 (as well as JNS Matukusuyama 300) and both are good for cheap stainless steel. Not sure if the King DX 300 is splash and go, but although JNS 300 is, it seems both benefit for a quick submersion in water.



The Tools From Japan product description says the King Deluxe 300 is splash and go. It's good to hear that it's good for stainless though. I was turned away from the description on Tools From Japan that says it's better suited for carbon. And I was reading a past thread where someone asked about it but it was never answered/resolved. 



K813zra said:


> I like my Cerax 320 quite a bit for a coarser stone. It is soft and wears quickly but does not melt under the blade when thinning. It is firm enough to work with narrow bevels too. The cutting speed and scratch pattern are nice as well. I jump directly to naturals from mine.
> 
> If I were to go with a Shapton pro/kuro it would be the 220 over the 320. I found it to be a much faster stone.
> 
> I can not say much about the others as I have not used them. I do have an I-wood for flattening but have never used it on steel.



Thanks for your input. I saw it was softer and because of my lack of experience I'm not sure what I prefer yet but I'd like to try. I'm just not sure whether it's worth the price jump/wait compared to the others. If I go with Shapton I'll definitely do the 220. 



PalmRoyale said:


> Have you considered an Atoma diamond plate? The Atoma 400 does an incredible job and leaves a very consistent scratch patern that's easily further refined with the Atoma 1200. You could even buy the regular Atoma 400 together with an Atoma 1200 replacement sheet, stick it to the other side of the 400 and you have a double sided plate. If you finish with light trailing strokes on the 1200 you get a shaving sharp edge.





WOK-a-holic said:


> KORIN KNIVES .com
> 300 grit diamond stone( splash and go )
> model # ha-1092 8"× 3.5" $79.95 will last a lifetime



I saw Atomas recommended in most threads I searched but it's just out of my price range (along with that Korin) at the moment, another reason I'm wary is that I read people don't like the feel of diamond plate sharpening compared to stones. Although they both may have a longer life span than a coarse stone, so it may be a better bang for my buck. 

Thanks all.


----------



## scott.livesey (Aug 13, 2017)

for the work you describe, either a Norton Crystolon coarse/fine or a Norton Crystolon coarse/India fine. Should be able to find an 8"x 2" x 1" for around $30US. yes they are oil stones, but really work well when repairing chips or thinning.


----------



## DanDan (Aug 14, 2017)

scott.livesey said:


> for the work you describe, either a Norton Crystolon coarse/fine or a Norton Crystolon coarse/India fine. Should be able to find an 8"x 2" x 1" for around $30US. yes they are oil stones, but really work well when repairing chips or thinning.



I read earlier that these were a good option for stainless but I looked them up then forgot about them. I was told these were used to sharpen the butchers I inherited from a family member. Can you use water with them? Anyway I found the Crystolon combo in 6" x 2" x 1" size for a total of $42.71, and I could get the bigger 8" x 2" x 1" India combo for $47.08. There are also standalone India grits but I think the combo is preferable. The prices are comparable to the Naniwa 220. If the Nortons wear slower they might just be preferable for what I need to do.


----------



## galvaude (Aug 14, 2017)

If you need to remove a lot of steel the coarse crystolon will work, you will have to use heavy pressure and mineral oil. You will need 60 grit loose silicon carbide to flatten and more importantly condition the surface.
Don't bother with India stones, the coarse Crystolon is way better for grinding.

I would still prefer a Naniwa Trad. 220, especially if you go to 1k after.


----------



## labor of love (Aug 14, 2017)

Damn, I've had my king 300
Permasoaked for over a year now.


----------



## loong (Aug 14, 2017)

I prefer to use a coarse diamond plate for stainless steel, good for chip repair and absolutely splash and go.


----------



## DanDan (Aug 17, 2017)

Well speaking of permasoaking, I went with the Naniwa 220 Traditional from PF. Even though I wanted splash and go might as well start with a classic and go from there. Plus it got to my mailbox in a day :doublethumbsup:

I'll definitely put a diamond plate on the to buy list next, it's got to be one of the most recommended sharpening tools out there.


----------



## natto (Aug 18, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Damn, I've had my king 300
> Permasoaked for over a year now.


I always thought it was made of silicon carbide. If so there should be no problem.


----------



## erezj (Aug 18, 2017)

I use 3M stikit roll gold, its 40$ and with a granite or glass back...it never dishes.

I've never seen any forum member talk about it, but I love it. I start with stones only when I reach 1000, watanabe AI.

Just my 2c


----------



## tommybig (Aug 18, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I use King Deluxe 300 (as well as JNS Matukusuyama 300) and both are good for cheap stainless steel. Not sure if the King DX 300 is splash and go, but although JNS 300 is, it seems both benefit for a quick submersion in water.



Could you say something about the differences of JNS300 and King 300?


----------



## dwalker (Aug 18, 2017)

tommybig said:


> Could you say something about the differences of JNS300 and King 300?


$$$$

But seriously, for the price of the King, you can't go wrong. I like mine alot, it replaced a much more expensive stone for me. I've never used the JNS 300, but have used several other JNS stones and they have all been nice stones. They have all been worth the money, but the King just gets the job done for pennies on the dollar.


----------



## galvaude (Aug 18, 2017)

Even though the King 300 is not the fastest stone in this grit range its resistance to dishing makes up for it big time. Nice feedback too.


----------



## Drosophil (Aug 26, 2017)

I got a King 300 yesterday and took a Munetoshi petty from axe to nice and thin in no time. There are faster stones out there, but it has nice feedback indeed and, for the money, ya can't beat it. Good to hear it's dish resistant too.


----------

