# Your Favourite Wines...



## cotedupy (May 31, 2021)

Seems to be more talk here about beer and whisk(e)y, but what do people like to drink wine-wise?

Grape varieties*, producers, regions, countries, styles. Just whatever you like do drink...



* And, seeing as I have a soapbox, I am going to take the opportunity to be be a terrible pedant and remind our friends in Australia and the US that it is 'variety' _not _'varietal'. Varietal is a word, but it's an adjective. Something can have 'varietal typicity' - it tastes of the grape variety/ies it's made from, or can be a 'varietal wine' - one made from a single variety. But Chardonnay is not a varietal.


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## cotedupy (May 31, 2021)

I'll go first; Beaujolais, Barbaresco, Aligote, Sherry, Vermentino.


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## KO88 (May 31, 2021)

I'm lately into natural wines. Very different to standard wines but pleasant especially the second day 

Dlúhé Grefty


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## LostHighway (May 31, 2021)

I tend to prefer Old World wines to New World wines

Whites: Melon de Bourgogne (Muscadet), Verdicchio, Albarino, Riesling, Cortese (Gavi), and Sauvignon Blanc (but not so much the fruit bombs). If something rounder/less acidic is appropriate: Chardonnay (if not over oaked or otherwise over manipulated), the Marsanne/Roussanne/Viognier blends, or Arneis 
Reds: Cabernet Franc, Pinot Noir (but I can't afford to drink the Pinots I like on even a semi-regular basis), GSM blends, Nebbiolo, Aglianico, Barbera, and Dolchetto.

Really good examples of natural wines can be great but there is also quite a bit of rather questionable natural wine out there. I do appreciate that some of the natural producers are reviving very out of fashion and nearly forgotten grapes.


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## sumis (May 31, 2021)

i'm certainly no expert on wines, but i do have a certain expertise when it comes to drinking. and in my thirst quenching endeavours i have passed through a vineyard or two. i'm very much a layman here, but extremely enthusiastic, so to speak 

pinot noir – agree w/ @LostHighway about how pricey great old world pn is (as well as the more trendy US ones), so for a few years i've been drinking my fill on NZ pn. still drinking.

cannonau – spent a lot of time in sardinia and got to appreciate the wines. didn't take much persuasion …

vermentino – yup, sardinia again. and i think i like albarino for the same reasons i like veremtino di sardegna.

nebbiolo – the good stuff becomes pricey fast it seems; but sometimes i like it when a wine shows me the middle finger. i mean, its only fair that you gotta earn the grape's respect to devour them. seriously though, when nebbiolo is great its not at all just about macho tannins – in my humble enthusistic laymans opinion.

i'm new to this forum, and lurking hard. looking forward to be schooled on grapes as well.

.


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## cotedupy (May 31, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> I tend to prefer Old World wines to New World wines
> 
> Whites: Melon de Bourgogne (Muscadet), Verdicchio, Albarino, Riesling, Cortese (Gavi), and Sauvignon Blanc (but not so much the fruit bombs). If something rounder/less acidic is appropriate: Chardonnay (if not over oaked or otherwise over manipulated), the Marsanne/Roussanne/Viognier blends, or Arneis
> Reds: Cabernet Franc, Pinot Noir (but I can't afford to drink the Pinots I like on even a semi-regular basis), GSM blends, Nebbiolo, Aglianico, Barbera, and Dolchetto.
> ...



Well knock me down with a feather... I wouldn't have put much money on Melon being the first grape mentioned on this thread! How could I forget Muscadet?! Ages like a dream too .

I shall have to make some additions to my list; Muscadet, Nerello Mascalese, and of course, Bandol. God I love Bandol. And speaking of nearly forgotten grapes - Romorantin.


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## damiano (May 31, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> I tend to prefer Old World wines to New World wines
> 
> Whites: Melon de Bourgogne (Muscadet), Verdicchio, Albarino, Riesling, Cortese (Gavi), and Sauvignon Blanc (but not so much the fruit bombs). If something rounder/less acidic is appropriate: Chardonnay (if not over oaked or otherwise over manipulated), the Marsanne/Roussanne/Viognier blends, or Arneis
> Reds: Cabernet Franc, Pinot Noir (but I can't afford to drink the Pinots I like on even a semi-regular basis), GSM blends, Nebbiolo, Aglianico, Barbera, and Dolchetto.
> ...


Could have been written by me for the most part.. Some notable additions: Bandol yes indeed, even a red Bandol. Mourvedre. Lugana (Italy, near Veneto). Northern Spain has some nice modern wines, including the local Txakoli from the area around San Sebastian.

I have been drinking natural wine for over 15 years now.. It’s getting increasingly hard to justify continuing buying it because prices have skyrocketed.


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## MarcelNL (May 31, 2021)

little to add, other than some typical whines from the Cote du Rhone; Vacqueyras to name just one.
Organic wine is becoming popular and hence expensive, I still enjoy the cheaper ones from La Vialla in Tuscany regularly (Torbelone -blend- and Sangiovese).


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## Eziemniak (May 31, 2021)

Don Simón
Or Don Simón mixed with coca cola
When not available i will settle for Fino or Manzanilla
Malbec when grilling doh


1€ of pure power


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## MarcelNL (May 31, 2021)

@KO88 I assume that pallet full of wine was your pick up order during Covid ?


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## lumo (May 31, 2021)

Vermentino for sure, and it's wilder, freckled twin, Pigato. I've been into exploring Ligurian Pigato vs Vermentio lately as the weather warms up and vegetables and seafood are more on my mind. Sardinia was my origin of choice for Vermentino but Corsica and Liguria have some good examples as well. 

Whites, mentioned above but Albarino and Txakoli generally hold a spot in my fridge, Arneis, St. Aubin, Cote d'Or, Etna Bianco, Greco di Tufo, Alto Adige, Veneto, Vernaccia di San Gimignano...

Red, Nerello Mascalese (Passopisciaro), Nero d'Avola, Cannonau, Taurasi, Ripasso, Brunello di Montalcino, Rhone (Cote Brune & Cote Blonde)....

...mmm, volcanic soil


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## Carl Kotte (May 31, 2021)

Beige wines!


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## big_adventure (May 31, 2021)

I'm on the side of the classics with finesse. Pinot noir and chardonnay is where the winning is.

And yes, the prices can be insane. It helps to have family members with multi thousand bottle cellars of old bourgognes and learning enough over the years to hunt down value buys at auctions. Ironically, or perhaps just unexpectedly, this is US family. Go figure.


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## coxhaus (May 31, 2021)

I tend to look for Napa wines out of California. But really, I have not met a wine I don't like.

I am thinking we should buy some Australia wines to help them out. Let's all buy a bottle.


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## Lars (May 31, 2021)

Saint-Emilion.


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## KO88 (May 31, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> @KO88 I assume that pallet full of wine was your pick up order during Covid ?


yeah who with family did not become an alcoholic during the covid? 

(it should go to Canada or New York, he s now famous around histas :-D )


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## big_adventure (May 31, 2021)

Lars said:


> Saint-Emilion.



Bizarrely, the name of the apellation is actualy Saint Emillion Grand Cru - the changed it as a marketing strategy quite some time ago. Grand cru generally means something, but not in the specific case of Saint Emillion Grand Cru.


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## rmrf (May 31, 2021)

Pinot noir is my favorite but I agree with everyone above that its hard to find good ones at reasonable prices. I also find it hard to pair a good pinot with food because I end up drinking the wine and not eating anything but bread... For those special occasions, I reach for gevrey-chambertin and chambolle-musigny.

I like overbearing, fruity pinots from california (sta. rita hills, russian river when restrained, sonoma coast, montery). They are usually a good pairing with most of what I cook and some regions still have good value. 

My friend lives near a wine shop that does amazing at bordeaux between 20-30 usd. Unfortunately, my local wine stores don't do as well. As it is, I only open a bordeaux for beef stew.

For steak or roasted beef, nothing compares to a youthful napa cab. I have a soft spot for the few remaining little wineries. When you find one you like, it feels like striking gold.

I don't think anyone has mentioned Savagnin from Jura. It took a little while to get used to it, but I love it now. It's what I always wished sherry tasted like. 

Riesling is great with asian food. I had years of bad new world riesling until someone forced me to try german ones. I have trouble keeping them stocked. 

Finally, I'm going to cheat a little and say bas armagnac. My favorite after dinner drink.


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## coxhaus (May 31, 2021)

I like California Saintsbury it is a nice Pinot noir. Oregon is supposed to be very good but I have not had an opportunity to discovery them. It is on my list next time I go out that way. It has doubled in price since I have been buying it over the last 20 years.

I like German white Reslings. I prefer Kabinett over Auslese or Spatlese.

I had some nice ice wines up in Vancouver.

I like California Napa Quintessa wine very much but it is a little out of my price line. I have drunk several bottles and wish I could drink a lot more.

I am looking forward to trying Napa Round Pond Estate wine in the future.


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## cotedupy (May 31, 2021)

lumo said:


> Vermentino for sure, and it's wilder, freckled twin, Pigato. I've been into exploring Ligurian Pigato vs Vermentio lately as the weather warms up and vegetables and seafood are more on my mind. Sardinia was my origin of choice for Vermentino but Corsica and Liguria have some good examples as well.
> 
> Whites, mentioned above but Albarino and Txakoli generally hold a spot in my fridge, Arneis, St. Aubin, Cote d'Or, Etna Bianco, Greco di Tufo, Alto Adige, Veneto, Vernaccia di San Gimigiano...
> 
> ...



Funnily enough the company I worked for for the last five-ish years started out as a (/the only) UK Ligurian wine specialist importer. It's very interesting when you have producers, Bruna for instance, who produce a Vermentino cuvee and a Pigato cuvee vinified in the same way. Their 'Vermentino' and their 'Russeghine' Pigato are identical except for the biotype I believe.

I assume you know of Randall Grahm (Bonny Doon)? He's doing some interesting things with both Pigato and Rossese / Tibouren in the US atm. I don't think any commercial wine has been produced yet, but I imagine there will be in the future.

And yes - Vernaccia... Elisabetta Fagiouli of Montenidoli is just one of my favourite producers in the world! I adore both her, and her wines.


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## lumo (Jun 1, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Bruna for instance, who produce a Vermentino cuvee and a Pigato cuvee vinified in the same way. Their 'Vermentino' and their 'Russeghine' Pigato are identical except for the biotype I believe.
> 
> I assume you know of Randall Grahm (Bonny Doon)?
> 
> And yes - Vernaccia... Elisabetta Fagiouli of Montenidoli is just one of my favourite producers in the world! I adore both her, and her wines.



I haven't had wines from Bruna. I've tried Punta Crena's Vermentino and Pigato side by side, now looking for Bisson's sampling of the two. My girlfriend digs the Massaretti pigato and it's sold up the street from me so it's usually in house.

Bonny Doon sounds familiar but I'm still new to the West Coast. I grew up on the East Coast and travelled and worked in Europe, still haven't explored American wines. 

Just read a little about Elisabetta Fagiouli, amazing, she sounds brilliant...will be looking for her wine. I got lost in San Gimignano once, found an unmarked taverna and walked in. Like a movie, record scratch, music stops and everyone looks at me like who the heck is this tourist and how did he find us. I sat myself, ordered the house wine and proceeded to have the best wild boar of my life. 

In a different way, I've had a serious wine maker crush on Arianna Occhipinti for years, and her wines not bad


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## coxhaus (Jun 1, 2021)

Here is my drinking wine rack. I probably have 5 cases of wine in another closet. If I find a bottle that I like cheap I usually buy a case. Costco gets in some nice wines sometimes.


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## big_adventure (Jun 1, 2021)

rmrf said:


> Pinot noir is my favorite but I agree with everyone above that its hard to find good ones at reasonable prices. I also find it hard to pair a good pinot with food because I end up drinking the wine and not eating anything but bread... For those special occasions, I reach for gevrey-chambertin and chambolle-musigny.
> 
> I like overbearing, fruity pinots from california (sta. rita hills, russian river when restrained, sonoma coast, montery). They are usually a good pairing with most of what I cook and some regions still have good value.
> 
> ...



For a better deal on some great french pinots look for Meursault reds. Meursault is known for chardonnay, but they make some sneaky great reds. Another is Mercurey, which isn't Côte d'Or so you're not paying the premium that entails. 

For after dinner, or anytime really where fortified spirits are on the menu, I'm firmly a Calvados man. I'll take a great Calvados over a cognac, armagnac, whatever, and they are much less expensive.


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## LostHighway (Jun 1, 2021)

big_adventure said:


> For after dinner, or anytime really where fortified spirits are on the menu, I'm firmly a Calvados man. I'll take a great Calvados over a cognac, armagnac, whatever, and they are much less expensive.



A tour* of small producers in Calvados has been on my bucket list for a very long time. Finding anything other than Boulard or Dupont is not easy here. My understanding is that even in Paris it isn't easy to find in most shops.
*the original plan was bicycle touring but driving is looking increasing more likely should it ever happen


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## Twotimehojo (Jun 1, 2021)

For Pinot, I like Rhys and Dumol. For Chardonnay, I like Dumol, Rhys, Ramey and Hudson. For Zin, I like Rafanelli and Turley. 

For Bordeaux, the list is vast, but my fav is Angelus. I just cant afford it! Value Bordeaux I like Canon La Gafferiere, Grand Mayne, Malartic La Graviere and many others. 

I like Cloudy Bay for sau blanc. 

I had a nice 2012 Sojourn Cab the other night. It surprised me it was so good. About $70 retail I think.


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## RockyBasel (Jun 1, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> Here is my drinking wine rack. I probably have 5 cases of wine in another closet. If I find a bottle that I like cheap I usually buy a case. Costco gets in some nice wines sometimes.
> 
> View attachment 129606


I would love to show my wine rack, but the place is a mess from all these knife boxes and bubble wraps - from when I want to sell some blades to make room for more blades

I love northern Rhone valley wines, but they are now very expensive

I think Rosso Di montalcino or baby brunello you can find some good deals, but you have to searxh

of course, I love Bordeaux - as I am an old world kind of guy, wined from cooler climates.

and Since Beaune, Burgundy is a 2.5 hour drive from where I live, the Pinot “variety” is growing on me. It’s fun to visit that area every now and then. In terms of white, Alsasce and white burgundy - because both areas are 2-3 hour driving distance and we get lots of those wines here

I love Barolo - but one needs patience, as with Bordeaux as well


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## RockyBasel (Jun 1, 2021)

Twotimehojo said:


> For Pinot, I like Rhys and Dumol. For Chardonnay, I like Dumol, Rhys, Ramey and Hudson. For Zin, I like Rafanelli and Turley.
> 
> For Bordeaux, the list is vast, but my fav is Angelus. I just cant afford it! Value Bordeaux I like Canon La Gafferiere, Grand Mayne, Malartic La Graviere and many others.
> 
> ...


 Malartic is delicious, and the the second wine of Leoville Las cases- can be a good deal, but still on the expensive side

Angelus - it can vary a lot from vintage to vintage, I have only had one bottle, all power but that vintage had less complexity. But expensive - very much a “Parker wine” in my view 

Margaux, St. Emilion, St. Julien, Pomerol, etc. create some fabulous stuff, but so expensive and needs age


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## cstrat (Jun 1, 2021)

Hi everyone. I fell down the black hole of wine buying before I got into Japanese knives. I find myself budgeting between knives, wine and audio equipment! There are wines I don’t mind drinking every day such as Chiantis, Cru Beaujolais, Loire Cab Francs, Rieslings which are typically low alcohol and go great with food. Then I have special wines: Brunello, Barolo, Bordeaux, Napa Cab(not too many of these), Burgundy and Champagne which enjoy infrequently. I tend to prefer European wines. I also look for biodynamic or natural wines as I think it really makes a difference.
Favorites right now are: Vajra Freisa 2016, San Felice Chianti Classico 2016, Elena Fucci “Titolo “, Chateau Yvonne Saumur Champigny “La Folie”
Btw, varietal is an adjective and a noun. Merriam-Webster says so...


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## agp (Jun 1, 2021)

I used to be a big fan of right bank Bordeaux blends and big jammy cabs, but trying to diversify now. Recently came back from a trip to Napa/Sonoma - found this new small winery called Fulcrum. The best rose I have ever had, check these guys out!






Fulcrum Wines


The real impetus for Fulcrum Wines is to produce wines that are in balance for discriminating consumers that believe, as we do, that more is not always better. Acid, tannin, alcohol, fruit expression, oak influence, age worthiness, and food friendliness are all key areas where we seek to strike...




www.fulcrumwines.com


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## kidsos (Jun 1, 2021)

I am really liking wines from the Jura lately. Had a great Chardonnay and Trousseau just the other day









Chantemerle 2016


Precise and round natural Chardonnay from Jerôme. Fruity aromatics with subtle notes of toasted spice. This is a serious wine that punches well above its price point. If you're a fan of characterful whites from the Jura region, then this is an absolute steal. Country France / JuraColour...




chenin-chenin.nl












Exception 2018


Trousseau from a calcareous, western-sloping vineyard in Arbois named Les Corvées, considered as one of the area's best vineyards. Grapes are stalked and fermented with natural yeast in a tank for 30 days. The wine is then stored for 12 months in old barrels. Medium-bodied, lots of red...




chenin-chenin.nl


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## KO88 (Jun 1, 2021)

kidsos said:


> I am really liking wines from the Jura lately. Had a great Chardonnay and Trousseau just the other day
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Very nice wines!!!

Do anyone likes CHRISTIAN TSCHIDA? Worth trying...


btw on that web they sell Nestarec... Also very nice stuff


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## kidsos (Jun 1, 2021)

KO88 said:


> Very nice wines!!!
> 
> Do anyone likes CHRISTIAN TSCHIDA? Worth trying...
> 
> ...



Poured quite a lot of Nestarecs muller thurgau in a restaurant I was working at! And I love some good Tschida, especially the Kapitel I


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## KO88 (Jun 1, 2021)

What about Ota Ševčík? Vinařství Ota Ševčík | Ota Ševčík – vinař z Bořetic


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## coxhaus (Jun 1, 2021)

I recently had a Napa Raymond Merlot that I liked. It has a blue velvet label. It is kind of a different Merlot fuller bodied. The nice thing about the movie Sideways is it made Merlots cheap.


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## coxhaus (Jun 1, 2021)

I am going to buy some of these Australia wines to help them out.

I am looking to buy a Shiraz from a producer named Torbreck and a Pinot noir from Mornington Peninsual south of Melbourne.

Let's buy some Australia wines.


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## coxhaus (Jun 1, 2021)

agp said:


> I used to be a big fan of right bank Bordeaux blends and big jammy cabs, but trying to diversify now. Recently came back from a trip to Napa/Sonoma - found this new small winery called Fulcrum. The best rose I have ever had, check these guys out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I tried to order a bottle but they won't ship until October. I like rose' wines.


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## agp (Jun 1, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I tried to order a bottle but they won't ship until October. I like rose' wines.



Shame! Their Chardonnay is good too. I bought some of those when I was there.
Fulcrum is known for pinot noir, but perosnally I'm not a fan of pinot.


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## M1k3 (Jun 1, 2021)

Boone's Farm or bust!*










*I no longer drink so yeah....


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## RockyBasel (Jun 2, 2021)

For viewing pleasure….something I consumed at an event recently. Spectacular


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## MarcelNL (Jun 2, 2021)

Pomerol...back in the day they were somewhat affordable....those were the days....luvved it! (mean that I currently think they are overpriced even when my expendable income now would allow me to buy them where that was not really the case back then)
I usually do not go for Merlot as most is not very complex but done in the right way...


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## MarcelNL (Jun 2, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I tried to order a bottle but they won't ship until October. I like rose' wines.


Does anyone know if most wine is shipped temp controlled? I've witnessed wine losing all of it's fruit in like two days of heat (over 30'C) in the house, since then we own a wine fridge but I'm still hesitant to buy wine after a hot spell....


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## Twotimehojo (Jun 2, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> Does anyone know if most wine is shipped temp controlled? I've witnessed wine losing all of it's fruit in like two days of heat (over 30'C) in the house, since then we own a wine fridge but I'm still hesitant to buy wine after a hot spell....



Most wine is shipped early Spring and late fall (if you order from California) and subsequently you can avoid expensive temp controlled shipping or 2 day air which also addresses the problem. I always opt for ground shipping which runs about $6 to $8 per bottle. 

You can always ask the winery to ship it temp controlled or 2 day air no matter. Most wineries offer multiple options.

Wine from Europe (say Bordeaux) does ship via temp controlled containers to the distributors.


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## MarcelNL (Jun 2, 2021)

yeah straight from the maker is not a worry I have, not having a cellar of any kind makes me buy odd bottles here and there and while i can now manage storage temp I wonder about f.e shipping to a whine store (let's not start to discuss supermarket whine transport).
I won't be ordering from California though, Italy/France is my target zone ;-)

(6-8$ a Bottle shipping?? so if you order 1 or 2 dozen, which my starting order to 'evaluate a whine properly'  that is 12 or 24 6-8 $??, Man I buy an extra whole bottle of proper whine for that much)


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## JDC (Jun 2, 2021)

Some great Rieslings come from the Finger Lakes AVA, especially from two wineries - Hermann J. Wiemer and Boundary Breaks.


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## Twotimehojo (Jun 2, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> yeah straight from the maker is not a worry I have, not having a cellar of any kind makes me buy odd bottles here and there and while i can now manage storage temp I wonder about f.e shipping to a whine store (let's not start to discuss supermarket whine transport).
> I won't be ordering from California though, Italy/France is my target zone ;-)
> 
> (6-8$ a Bottle shipping?? so if you order 1 or 2 dozen, which my starting order to 'evaluate a whine properly'  that is 12 or 24 6-8 $??, Man I buy an extra whole bottle of proper whine for that much)



Some (CA) wineries will offer free shipping on 1/2 case or more. Shipping costs per bottle drop as you approach a case. For a case and a half, you will be charged the most economical rate for the full case and a bit more of a premium for the 1/2 case.

Most wines shipped to store from a distributor should be temp controlled shipped via truck. 

Are you concerned about buying 2 cases of Italian wine from a wine store, cellar for 10 years, and wonder if the wine was spoiled when you bought it 10 years ago due to shipping? If so, that should not be too much of a concern.


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## MarcelNL (Jun 2, 2021)

Nah, hardly... lacking a cellar and given my pattern of consuming 10 years storage is a fairy tale


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## RockyBasel (Jun 2, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> Does anyone know if most wine is shipped temp controlled? I've witnessed wine losing all of it's fruit in like two days of heat (over 30'C) in the house, since then we own a wine fridge but I'm still hesitant to buy wine after a hot spell....


I only ship when the weather permits - so I will typically ship in November to spring - in winter, it depends how cold. But yes, very important watch out

never ship in peak summer


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## big_adventure (Jun 2, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> Does anyone know if most wine is shipped temp controlled? I've witnessed wine losing all of it's fruit in like two days of heat (over 30'C) in the house, since then we own a wine fridge but I'm still hesitant to buy wine after a hot spell....



No, it usually isn't.


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## RockyBasel (Jun 2, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> Pomerol...back in the day they were somewhat affordable....those were the days....luvved it! (mean that I currently think they are overpriced even when my expendable income now would allow me to buy them where that was not really the case back then)
> I usually do not go for Merlot as most is not very complex but done in the right way...


It’s 80 percent merlot and 20 % Cabernet franc. But this one is done right as you say. This property has been making wine since 1700’s and is now owned by Lafite Rothschild. If you are ever in these parts, we will get my neighbor @altwisser and crack open a bottle while checking out some knives


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## MarcelNL (Jun 3, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> It’s 80 percent merlot and 20 % Cabernet franc. But this one is done right as you say. This property has been making wine since 1700’s and is now owned by Lafite Rothschild. If you are ever in these parts, we will get my neighbor @altwisser and crack open a bottle while checking out some knives


I usually keep to the left when the option to Basel flies by passing Karlsruhe, but I could do a detour on my way back so I can visit some friends in Vorarlberg and stop by...let's get the vaccination passports before planning anything...so far my vaccination appointments did not make into 'the system' so I'm now 3 weeks behind the original schedule.


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## RockyBasel (Jun 3, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> I usually keep to the left when the option to Basel flies by passing Karlsruhe, but I could do a detour on my way back so I can visit some friends in Vorarlberg and stop by...let's get the vaccination passports before planning anything...so far my vaccination appointments did not make into 'the system' so I'm now 3 weeks behind the original schedule.


In CH, we just for got our first shot, so we should be fully vaccinated June/July - hopefully this fall, you can do a detour, will be fun - @alterwisser and I would love to connect


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## MarcelNL (Jun 3, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> In CH, we just for got our first shot, so we should be fully vaccinated June/July - hopefully this fall, you can do a detour, will be fun - @alterwisser and I would love to connect


should work for me, I'll put out a reservation for 'undisturbed Autobahn speeding for one" for the fall just to check if the limiter works


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## MarcelNL (Jun 3, 2021)

(is the stretch between Basel and Karlsruhe limited or not yet, A5, I know there are overhead signs so with rain etc it used to be limited....edit: sorted.....http://autobahnspeedhunter.com/)


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## RockyBasel (Jun 3, 2021)

There are unlimited stretches, and then some areas with 120 limits. But when you leave Switzerland, it’s unlimited and all drivers floor the pedal and zoom! because it’s a liberating feeling from the driving experience in Switzerland- where speed limits change every kilometer of travel - it’s crazy here in CH


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## MarcelNL (Jun 3, 2021)

I know, the Swiss have invented speed limit craziness and taken it to the next level....


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## alterwisser (Jun 4, 2021)

It’s not only the speed limits, it’s the ENFORCEMENT! I did a short round trip from Basel to Biel and back yesterday, with a detour to Le Cocle and I counted over 50 radars …

And they will bleed you dry when they catch you….


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## RockyBasel (Jun 4, 2021)

alterwisser said:


> It’s not only the speed limits, it’s the ENFORCEMENT! I did a short round trip from Basel to Biel and back yesterday, with a detour to Le Cocle and I counted over 50 radars …
> 
> And they will bleed you dry when they catch you….


Yup - I once saw the speed go from 120 kmh to 100 to 80 to 120 over a 2 km stretch and I got clocked as speeding!


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## MarcelNL (Jun 4, 2021)

alterwisser said:


> It’s not only the speed limits, it’s the ENFORCEMENT! I did a short round trip from Basel to Biel and back yesterday, with a detour to Le Cocle and I counted over 50 radars …
> 
> And they will bleed you dry when they catch you….


totally right, a relative of me was getting home after skiing in the Haute Savoi, like 20 years ago, completely forgetting the radar traps in Switzerland, driving a powerful car in his usual heavy foot style....couple weeks later he was bombarded with kind invitations to cough up dough, at the time he was out of like 700 Swiss Francs, and since the speed tax has gone skyhigh. Even worse than in my country. Radar traps in tunnels, everywhere, total nonsense if you ask me because the majority of drivers pay more attention to not speeding and where these radars are then to driving...until they get to the Autobahn to drive much faster than is safe for their level of experience .


----------



## RockyBasel (Jun 5, 2021)




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## RockyBasel (Jun 5, 2021)

We found a little cafe in Wengen, that had this on the wine list, selling for 25% of what we would pay for this bottle in a Paris/London/Zurich restaurant - meaning we could not afford it

so we had it and loved it. Of course there was only raclette or fondue to go with it, but nothing could have been better

only problem is now we want it and can’t affford it

sometimes good surprises in the most humble places


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## cotedupy (Jun 5, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> Does anyone know if most wine is shipped temp controlled? I've witnessed wine losing all of it's fruit in like two days of heat (over 30'C) in the house, since then we own a wine fridge but I'm still hesitant to buy wine after a hot spell....



I don't know about direct sales within the US, but vanishingly little wine is shipped temp controlled internationally because of price and volume. It can be done, but usually on a small scale. Shipping palletised deliveries either deep-sea or via road, will often be done with something like this product: https://hillebrand.com/docs/default-source/documents/hillebrand-insulation-liner-benefits.pdf . Which can be used either wrapped around individual pallets, or to insulate the inside of a container.


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## cotedupy (Jun 5, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I am going to buy some of these Australia wines to help them out.
> 
> I am looking to buy a Shiraz from a producer named Torbreck and a Pinot noir from Mornington Peninsual south of Melbourne.
> 
> Let's buy some Australia wines.



What Mornington Pinots are you thinking about? A couple of recommendations, if you can find them): Both Ten Minutes By Tractor and Timo Mayer (not in the Mornington, but close - Yarra), are just astonishing.


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## coxhaus (Jun 5, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> What Mornington Pinots are you thinking about? A couple of recommendations, if you can find them): Both Ten Minutes By Tractor and Timo Mayer (not in the Mornington, but close - Yarra), are just astonishing.



What do you recommend? There is a store in Austin that supposed to have some. Maybe next week I can get over that way.


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## cotedupy (Jun 5, 2021)

Well who'd have thought KKF would turn out to be such a hotbed of natural wine enthusiasts! 



lumo said:


> In a different way, I've had a serious wine maker crush on Arianna Occhipinti for years, and her wines not bad



Haha... yes I know what you mean. Though slightly grumpy the few times I've met her - she's definitely got that brooding Sicilian thing down to a t!



KO88 said:


> Do anyone likes CHRISTIAN TSCHIDA? Worth trying...





kidsos said:


> Poured quite a lot of Nestarecs muller thurgau in a restaurant I was working at! And I love some good Tschida, especially the Kapitel I



Big fan of Nestarec, though personally I often find Tschida a little... err... 'challenging'. I've had a couple of very nice bottles, but usually find the brett and VA levels a bit too hardcore for me.


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## RockyBasel (Jun 5, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Well who'd have thought KKF would turn out to be such a hotbed of natural wine enthusiasts!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to try some wines by Ariana occhipinti - they sound very interesting - need to branch out


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## cotedupy (Jun 5, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> What do you recommend? There is a store in Austin that supposed to have some. Maybe next week I can get over that way.



Certainly those two above. But tbh the Mornington isn't a massive area, and land is quite expensive, so there aren't many producers. Which kind've means you don't really get bad Mornington Pinots .

Would love to hear your thoughts if you do find one... always interesting to hear what other people think of other countries' wines!

p.s. - interesting (anecdotal) observation for you - it doesn't actually surprise me too much that you can find Mornington Pinots in Austin. The American wine cosuming market is one of the most switched-on and eclectic in the world. Almost every European producer I know and have worked with has told me that the US is their best export market. Despite the fact that you obviously have a ton of excellent wines made in the states already. You can't find Mornington Pinot in Paris I assure you!


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## cotedupy (Jun 5, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> I have to try some wines by Ariana occhipinti - they sound very interesting - need to branch out



Pretty well all of her wines are great. But in particular - she recently (4 ish years ago?) started making a trio of 'Contrada' wines to show very localised aspects of Vittoria terroir and soil... they're really stunning!


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## LostHighway (Jun 5, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> I have to try some wines by Ariana occhipinti - they sound very interesting - need to branch out



I've only had the wines from her SP68 series but they were good, not amazing, but definitely worth trying. IME almost anything Louis Dressner imports into the US is good. In addition to Occhipinti they bring in Luneau-Papin and Pepiere Muscadets, two of the most reliable producers, plus a long list of other wines..


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## pgugger (Jun 5, 2021)

I don’t know the world of wine in detail but I always like Spanish reds when I buy at stores near home… Tempranillo, garnacha, etc. I’ve also enjoyed many reds from southern France, Italy and Greece when traveling.


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## kidsos (Jun 5, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Well who'd have thought KKF would turn out to be such a hotbed of natural wine enthusiasts!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



His Himmel auf erden can be pretty funky in a not so nice way imho. Decanting can help though, still better than Axel Prufer. Those are some serious stinky and mousey wines.... really unstable


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## kidsos (Jun 5, 2021)

I do see possibilities for a Dutch wine and knife meeting though ;-)


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## stevessf (Jun 6, 2021)

We couldn't have enjoyed these two very different wines more.


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## coxhaus (Jun 6, 2021)

I am a novice at old wines. It is rare for me to come across old wines. It is just too hot in Texas to store wine for long term as we have no basements in Texas. The AC required is expensive to keep wine. Any way in the quantities I would want. I bet we drink 2 cases a month.


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## Lars (Jun 9, 2021)

You guys inspired me to buy a few wines I haven't tried before. Nothing fancy, but hopefully some nice drinking wines..


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## RockyBasel (Jun 9, 2021)

stevessf said:


> We couldn't have enjoyed these two very different wines more.View attachment 130251


55 Margaux!!!! Oh my goodness me - that is epic!

Closest I ever even got close to that stratesphere was this


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## MarcelNL (Jun 9, 2021)

I've never had anything older than a '65 Latour that was borderline ripe for a salad dressing, sherry would be the best description upon opening....after loads of air it was palatable but nothing memorable or WOW. 
To verify I later bought a dozen bottles of the current year (probably 1987-88 or so) and checked development by a bottle or so each year and concluded that the waiting game is not for me, likely a mix of lack of patience and an appreciation of other characteristics in a wine. I like to buy wine that is ready to drink within a year from purchase.


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## RockyBasel (Jun 9, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> I've never had anything older than a '65 Latour that was borderline ripe for a salad dressing, sherry would be the best description upon opening....after loads of air it was palatable but nothing memorable or WOW.
> To verify I later bought a dozen bottles of the current year (probably 1987-88 or so) and checked development by a bottle or so each year and concluded that the waiting game is not for me, likely a mix of lack of patience and an appreciation of other characteristics in a wine. I like to buy wine that is ready to drink within a year from purchase.


All depends on storage condition and luck I suppose - Some wines are almost built for aging . I will find some older vintages online at really good prices around end of the year, but the amounts will be 4-5 bottles or less. They get discounted as they are less than a case, and therefore not if interest to collectors. 

But other wines are great in relative youth - also, your tastes evolve, that’s why wine is so interesting


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## Twotimehojo (Jun 10, 2021)

I have been been fortunate to try wines from the 60's and 70's. Alas, no 1961. The book Vintage Timecharts by Jancis Robinson makes a case that even the most legendary wines (first growths) reach the peak of maturity at 15 years, maybe 20 in an amazing vintage. And then its a slow gradual downward slope from there.

IMHO, i agree. I once drank a 40 year old bordeaux and a number of folks around the table was like "need more time". I could not help but laugh to myself. If the wine is not drinking well at 40 years, more time is not going to help!

Everyone has a preferred style. Some folks like an aged wine even if the edges are decaying a bit and the fruit is barely noticeable. I prefer to drink close to peak. That said, it is nice to have an old bottle around for company or for a kids birth year.


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## RockyBasel (Jun 10, 2021)

Twotimehojo said:


> I have been been fortunate to try wines from the 60's and 70's. Alas, no 1961. The book Vintage Timecharts by Jancis Robinson makes a case that even the most legendary wines (first growths) reach the peak of maturity at 15 years, maybe 20 in an amazing vintage. And then its a slow gradual downward slope from there.
> 
> IMHO, i agree. I once drank a 40 year old bordeaux and a number of folks around the table was like "need more time". I could not help but laugh to myself. If the wine is not drinking well at 40 years, more time is not going to help!
> 
> Everyone has a preferred style. Some folks like an aged wine even if the edges are decaying a bit and the fruit is barely noticeable. I prefer to drink close to peak. That said, it is nice to have an old bottle around for company or for a kids birth year.


So true!


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## RockyBasel (Jun 10, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> I've never had anything older than a '65 Latour that was borderline ripe for a salad dressing, sherry would be the best description upon opening....after loads of air it was palatable but nothing memorable or WOW.
> To verify I later bought a dozen bottles of the current year (probably 1987-88 or so) and checked development by a bottle or so each year and concluded that the waiting game is not for me, likely a mix of lack of patience and an appreciation of other characteristics in a wine. I like to buy wine that is ready to drink within a year from purchase.



This fall, when you have a chance to swing by Basel - we will test your hypotheses by opening up an 1986 or 1990 Bordeaux


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## Chips (Jun 11, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> This fall, when you have a chance to swing by Basel - we will test your hypotheses by opening up an 1986 or 1990 Bordeaux



I know next to nothing about Bordeaux, but I'm familiar with the big names/first growths. My buddy hosted a BBQ a few weeks ago, smoked a big Snake River Farms Wagyu brisket and opened a bottle of 1986 Chateau Mouton Rothschild for us. I couldn't believe the intensity and edgy tannin structure it still had. He let me keep the bottle, I loved the label art!


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## RockyBasel (Jun 11, 2021)

Chips said:


> I know next to nothing about Bordeaux, but I'm familiar with the big names/first growths. My buddy hosted a BBQ a few weeks ago, smoked a big Snake River Farms Wagyu brisket and opened a bottle of 1986 Chateau Mouton Rothschild for us. I couldn't believe the intensity and edgy tannin structure it still had. He let me keep the bottle, I loved the label art!


You have great friends and they are spoiling you - most of us don’t have many opportunities to try first growths. But yes, that 1986 M Rothschild is something else - the label art is always special.

sounds like the food was perfect for it - and if you used a Kato for the cooking, well, it does not get more epic than that


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## TM001 (Jun 12, 2021)

I drink mostly new world wines since the local wine stores have a much better selection of them. Mostly Oregon Pinot Gris (Acrobat, A to Z, Elk Cove, King Estate), Oregon Pinot Noirs (Acrobat, Adelsheim, Sidouri), and California Zinfandels (Cline, Ridge). California cabernet prices are crazy.

Love Alsace and Loire whites, Australian Shiraz, and Rhone reds but generally cannot find good selection.


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## damiano (Jun 14, 2021)

Haven’t had that many old wines. If I want something vintage I’m more inclined to choose something like port, which to me seems to be better protected against ageing. Given higher alcohol %.

Which brings me to the off springs of wine, e.g. this nice Manzanilla sherry I had yesterday. Bone dry but with lots of character, good fit for things like smoked salmon, eel, roasted almonds.


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## LostHighway (Jun 14, 2021)

Wahnamhong said:


> Haven’t had that many old wines. If I want something vintage I’m more inclined to choose something like port, which to me seems to be better protected against ageing. Given higher alcohol %.
> 
> Which brings me to the off springs of wine, e.g. this nice Manzanilla sherry I had yesterday. Bone dry but with lots of character, good fit for things like smoked salmon, eel, roasted almonds.



I use sherry for cooking with some frequency and I'm certainly not adverse to finishing off the remains of the bottle. I haven't had the Lustau Manzanilla - my usual go-to Manzaillas are Orleans Borbon, Valdespino, and La Cigarrera.


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## MarcelNL (Jun 14, 2021)

Wahnamhong said:


> Haven’t had that many old wines. If I want something vintage I’m more inclined to choose something like port, *which to me seems to be better protected against ageing. Given higher alcohol %.*
> 
> Which brings me to the off springs of wine, e.g. this nice Manzanilla sherry I had yesterday. Bone dry but with lots of character, good fit for things like smoked salmon, eel, roasted almonds.



I read the part in bold to be your statement, and chuckled my agreement...higher alcohol% protects against ageing


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## damiano (Jun 14, 2021)

So far I’m doing fine, people usually think I’m younger...


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## coxhaus (Jun 30, 2021)

I finally got around to shopping for wine. I bought a couple from Australia. I bought 5 bottles of Torbreck shiraz as that was all they had. They recommended another Australia wine which I have not had, Ringland barossa shiraz. I wanted an Amarone's and they recommended this one. 30 years ago Amarone wines were so much cheaper back then than now. I picked up a couple of new NAPA cabs I have not had.


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## RockyBasel (Jun 30, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I finally got around to shopping for wine. I bought a couple from Australia. I bought 5 bottles of Torbreck shiraz as that was all they had. They recommended another Australia wine which I have not had, Ringland barossa shiraz. I wanted an Amarone's and they recommended this one. 30 years ago Amarone wines were so much cheaper back then than now. I picked up a couple of new NAPA cabs I have not had.
> 
> View attachment 133111


Amarones are unique wines, very concentrated fruit and “leathery” with tobacco overtones. Because they dry the grapes before they make the wine - really distinctive wine. But you are right, prices have shot up like crazy


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2021)

Pepiere Briords, Baudry Croix Boissee, Puffeney Trousseau, Angerville anything, Barthod, Fourrier, Pradeaux, Paolo Bea, Ridge Geyserville...


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## RockyBasel (Jun 30, 2021)

Cliff said:


> Pepiere Briords, Baudry Croix Boissee, Puffeney Trousseau, Angerville anything, Barthod, Fourrier, Pradeaux, Paolo Bea, Ridge Geyserville...


Only one I recognize is Paolo Bea - great winemaker


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2021)

I love them. Have you tried Occhipinti?


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## coxhaus (Jun 30, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> Only one I recognize is Paolo Bea - great winemaker



I can't figure out these wines. I tried googling them but I could not cross to somewhere I could buy some of them. Here is a link but I don't think it is the right wine.
Bernard Baudry Chinon | Total Wine & More


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2021)

That's the producer's basic wine. Price looks a little high to me. Everything they make is excellent, if you like Chinon.


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## coxhaus (Jun 30, 2021)

I have a hard time with Europe wines. Do you guys drink many California wines?


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2021)

I do, but not too often. I was on the Rhys list for several years and am letting most of them age. I would never turn down Ridge, Mount Eden, Calera, or Kalin. But I haven't really kept up.


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## MarcelNL (Jul 1, 2021)

I have no hard time drinking european whines  

Ripasso is a favorite, Amarone also, but those can be hard to pair with food.


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## cotedupy (Jul 1, 2021)

Cliff said:


> Pepiere Briords, Baudry Croix Boissee, Puffeney Trousseau, Angerville anything, Barthod, Fourrier, Pradeaux, Paolo Bea, Ridge Geyserville...



I'm coming round your house for a Muscadet/Jura party!


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## coxhaus (Jul 1, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> I have no hard time drinking european whines
> 
> Ripasso is a favorite, Amarone also, but those can be hard to pair with food.



Not drinking them but figuring them out as what to buy. It is getting hot right an I would like a few rose' wines under $20?


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## Cliff (Jul 1, 2021)

Absolutely! Still treasuring the remaining stash from Puffeney.


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## Cliff (Jul 1, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> Not drinking them but figuring them out as what to buy. It is getting hot right an I would like a few rose' wines under $20?



$20 is the new $10. It's getting harder and harder. Though for Rose you should be able to. Can you find this?






Polaner Selections







www.polanerselections.com


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## swarfrat (Jul 1, 2021)




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## coxhaus (Jul 1, 2021)

Cliff said:


> $20 is the new $10. It's getting harder and harder. Though for Rose you should be able to. Can you find this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is this it?
Cantalupo Il Mimo Nebbiolo Colline Novaresi | Vivino

Scratch that as they don't have it.

You got another one?

Have had this?
Aix Rose | Total Wine & More

Samuel Robert Rose Willamette Vintner's Reserve | Total Wine & More

Guy Mousset Cotes du Rhone Rose | Total Wine & More


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## Cliff (Jul 1, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> Is this it?
> Cantalupo Il Mimo Nebbiolo Colline Novaresi | Vivino



Yep, that's it. It's not great wine, but a lovely one for the money. It's on the fuller side for a rose.


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## TM001 (Jul 1, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I can't figure out these wines. I tried googling them but I could not cross to somewhere I could buy some of them. Here is a link but I don't think it is the right wine.
> Bernard Baudry Chinon | Total Wine & More



You should be able to find Ridge. I am not in a large wine market and I can get them. 

They produce great Zinfandel blends; their cabernets are also very good. They are one of oldest California Zinfandel producers.

Geyserville and Lytton Springs are their two most expensive Zin blends (~$40 in GA). They have several slightly cheaper wines (~$30 - 35 in GA) Paso Robles, East Bench, Ponzo, Pagani Ranch, Three Valleys.


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## Cliff (Jul 1, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> Is this it?
> Cantalupo Il Mimo Nebbiolo Colline Novaresi | Vivino
> 
> Scratch that as they don't have it.
> ...



I don't know the Aix or Mousset, but I think they look like fine bets. Vivino looks a little pricey, but they do have a couple of options that caught my eye, in a higher price category. This is a little spendy and, unusual. It's funky, but it has real soul and personality:





__





2019 Clos Cibonne Tibouren Tradition Rosé | Vivino






www.vivino.com





Here's another spendy one with tons of personality. It's not like most other roses but not quite as funky as Cibonne





__





2016 Ameztoi Rubentis | Vivino






www.vivino.com


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## coxhaus (Jul 1, 2021)

Looking at Ridge.

I had this recently and liked it real well.
Pine Ridge Cabernet Napa Valley | Total Wine & More

I can't find Cibonne nor the Vivino local. I think I may try the AIX.


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## coxhaus (Jul 1, 2021)

I buy a case a month of this at my local grocery store. I think it is great for $10. This is a NAPA chardonnay which I really like. It is kind of buttery but not over the top.


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## cotedupy (Jul 1, 2021)

Cliff said:


> Absolutely! Still treasuring the remaining stash from Puffeney.



I've just got a few bottles of '14 Chard and Sav back in the UK, but no red. Lucien Aviet's (Caveau de Bacchus) Trousseaus are worth searching out if you don't know them, not that they're any easier to buy!

Come to think of it - Puff's final VJ should be released quite soon. 75 months minimum elevage is about now, though I guess they probably keep them a little longer (?)


----------



## cotedupy (Jul 1, 2021)

Cliff said:


> I don't know the Aix or Mousset, but I think they look like fine bets. Vivino looks a little pricey, but they do have a couple of options that caught my eye, in a higher price category. This is a little spendy and, unusual. It's funky, but it has real soul and personality:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Funnily enough my last company were the UK importers of Cibonne, and the one before - Ameztoi. Big fan of both .


----------



## panda (Jul 1, 2021)

sancerre


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## Cliff (Jul 1, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> I've just got a few bottles of '14 Chard and Sav back in the UK, but no red. Lucien Aviet's (Caveau de Bacchus) Trousseaus are worth searching out if you don't know them, not that they're any easier to buy!
> 
> Come to think of it - Puff's final VJ should be released quite soon. 75 months minimum elevage is about now, though I guess they probably keep them a little longer (?)




I have enjoyed the Caveau de Bacchus. 



cotedupy said:


> Funnily enough my last company were the UK importers of Cibonne, and the one before - Ameztoi. Big fan of both .



That's some good company!


----------



## Bobby2shots (Jul 2, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> I'm coming round your house for a *Muscadet*/Jura party!



Oooo, a bone-dry Muscadet,,,, perfect companion to fresh oysters.


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## cotedupy (Jul 3, 2021)

Cliff said:


> I have enjoyed the Caveau de Bacchus.
> 
> 
> 
> That's some good company!



(The companies I _worked for _obviously! I don't go around buying and selling wine import businesses. Though that wouldn't be a bad job now that I think about it )


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## coxhaus (Jul 11, 2021)

So, this is my favorite rose' wine I bought a few days ago. I did not really care for the AIX even though it ranked high in Wine Spectator.


----------



## cotedupy (Jul 11, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> So, this is my favorite rose' wine I bought a few days ago. I did not really care for the AIX even though it ranked high in Wine Spectator.
> 
> View attachment 134212



Ah interesting! The very light (some might say insipid) style of the AIX is very popular in Europe, as people often incorrectly associate darker roses with being sweeter.

I assume your rose there is dry? Or at least not noticeably sweet...?


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 12, 2021)

It is dry but fuller bodied. Not sweet at all. I could probably figure out food for the AIX to make it work. I still probably won't buy any more AIX. Another 6 weeks and I won't drink rose' any more as it will be out season for me. It is still a little hot for reds. But I will be going to a wine dinner a month from now as we have it scheduled with a nice Italian restaurant. They put on wine dinners about once a month. The is the first since Covid.


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 12, 2021)

Do you guys' drink ice wines? I had some nice ones up in Vancouver years ago. I don't remember the names as it was before iPhones. They make fun of the Californians having to freeze the grapes in a freezer to make ice wine. You mentioned sweet wine so it got me thinking.


----------



## cotedupy (Jul 12, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> Do you guys' drink ice wines? I had some nice ones up in Vancouver years ago. I don't remember the names as it was before iPhones. They make fun of the Californians having to freeze the grapes in a freezer to make ice wine. You mentioned sweet wine so it got me thinking.



I quite like Ice Wine, though it's fearsomely expensive! I assume in the US that wines made with freezing / cryo-extraction aren't allowed to label themselves 'Ice Wine'...? (They certainly can't in Europe or Canada.)


----------



## Cliff (Jul 12, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> So, this is my favorite rose' wine I bought a few days ago. I did not really care for the AIX even though it ranked high in Wine Spectator.
> 
> View attachment 134212


I like that color. Sorry the Aix was a miss.


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## coxhaus (Jul 12, 2021)

I am still thinking about sweet wine. So, I drink some German white wine mainly kabinett but they have spatlese, and auslese. The later 2 are on the sweeter side. Do you drink spatlese and auslese by themselves or do you have them with food? What food?


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 12, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> I quite like Ice Wine, though it's fearsomely expensive! I assume in the US that wines made with freezing / cryo-extraction aren't allowed to label themselves 'Ice Wine'...? (They certainly can't in Europe or Canada.)



I googled it and it seems Californians can freeze grapes and call it ice wine. I read a lot wineries are using the term iced instead of ice.


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 12, 2021)

I think I am ready for a sauterne wine to buy next. Any recommendations?

Maybe
*Chateau Guiraud Sauternes, 2013

Chateau Doisy-Vedrines Sauternes, 2017

Chateau Guiraud Sauternes, 2011

Chateau Suduiraut Sauternes, 2017

Chateau Guiraud Sauternes, 2017*


----------



## Michi (Jul 12, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I am still thinking about sweet wine. So, I drink some German white wine mainly kabinett but they have spatlese, and auslese. The later 2 are on the sweeter side. Do you drink spatlese and auslese by themselves or do you have them with food? What food?


Some options: cheese platter, foie gras, asparagus, flaky savoury pastry, cake, creme caramel.


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## Cliff (Jul 13, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I am still thinking about sweet wine. So, I drink some German white wine mainly kabinett but they have spatlese, and auslese. The later 2 are on the sweeter side. Do you drink spatlese and auslese by themselves or do you have them with food? What food?



This is a tough one. It depends on the wine. Not all Auslesen are the same. I would happily have a Mosel auslese with some pork and apple or something mildly spicy. Some people really struggle to pair off-dry wines with food, at all. Other versions are more clearly into dessert territory -- I'm thinking of the Pfalz. Alsace is even more confusing. You really have to know the individual wine. You can get a clue by looking at the alcohol level, to figure out just how sweet it's likely to be, but it is imperfect.


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 14, 2021)

So I went to my local wine store actually 3 stores. I did not like what they had at the first 2 stores. I went in with the idea to buy a sweet wine. I don't normally drink sweet wine and it has been a couple of years since I have bought any. I found a couple of nice sauterne wines not the one I had a couple of years ago. I bought some German wines a few spatlese, and auslese and 1 kabinett. I had to pay $43 for one of the German wines which seems excessive for a German wine, any way the cute wine girl said it really was good.
I bought a case to get the discount. There are a few ports and 2 Bordeaux not sweet. She said they were really good. It filled out my case. I don't buy Bordeaux any more as they have gotten expensive and I find I like California wines better but I was feeling I wanted something not normal this trip.


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## Cliff (Jul 15, 2021)

Those look delicious. Have you tried Rocquefort with Sauternes?


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## boomchakabowwow (Jul 15, 2021)

i'm biased. i live in Sonoma wine country.

right now it's Merry Edwards Pinot. not too expensive and i think its spectacular. i dont like whites as much, but ME's SavB is my favorite by a long shot.


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## cotedupy (Jul 15, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> So I went to my local wine store actually 3 stores. I did not like what they had at the first 2 stores. I went in with the idea to buy a sweet wine. I don't normally drink sweet wine and it has been a couple of years since I have bought any. I found a couple of nice sauterne wines not the one I had a couple of years ago. I bought some German wines a few spatlese, and auslese and 1 kabinett. I had to pay $43 for one of the German wines which seems excessive for a German wine, any way the cute wine girl said it really was good.
> I bought a case to get the discount. There are a few ports and 2 Bordeaux not sweet. She said they were really good. It filled out my case. I don't buy Bordeaux any more as they have gotten expensive and I find I like California wines better but I was feeling I wanted something not normal this trip.
> 
> View attachment 134447
> ...



That looks like a nice interesting selection!

$43 doesn't sound too bad tbh... I don't know this for a fact but I'd guess the most expensive white wine in the world in terms of $/L would probably be some kind of sweet (TBA) German Riesling.

[Edit - Here we go... you got off lightly  Riesling | Most Prized Grape on Earth ]


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## coxhaus (Jul 15, 2021)

boomchakabowwow said:


> i'm biased. i live in Sonoma wine country.
> 
> right now it's Merry Edwards Pinot. not too expensive and i think its spectacular. i dont like whites as much, but ME's SavB is my favorite by a long shot.



California reds are my favorite also. I was on a quest to buy something different than I normally drink.

I will see if I can find Merry Edwards Pinot next. I think Saintsbury is one of the better Pinots I had. I like the Lee's area which matches my name.

When I go to NAPA I find some really nice wines. My brother-in-law lives in NAPA. Covid has me shutdown still. I am limited on what I can find in Austin Texas. I forget sometimes that I don't have access to all the wines I like.

What year for Merry Edwards Pinot 2017 or 2018?


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## Bill13 (Jul 15, 2021)

Twotimehojo said:


> For Pinot, I like Rhys and Dumol. For Chardonnay, I like Dumol, Rhys, Ramey and Hudson. For Zin, I like Rafanelli and Turley.
> 
> For Bordeaux, the list is vast, but my fav is Angelus. I just cant afford it! Value Bordeaux I like Canon La Gafferiere, Grand Mayne, Malartic La Graviere and many others.
> 
> ...


Big fan of good Zin and a have been on the Turley mailing list for decades. Have you had Hendry before?

For PN try Archery Summit from the Willamette vineyard.


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## boomchakabowwow (Jul 15, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> California reds are my favorite also. I was on a quest to buy something different than I normally drink.
> 
> I will see if I can find Merry Edwards Pinot next. I think Saintsbury is one of the better Pinots I had. I like the Lee's area which matches my name.
> 
> ...


My last bottle was 2018 bud. I love Austin Tex!


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## TM001 (Jul 16, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I am still thinking about sweet wine. So, I drink some German white wine mainly kabinett but they have spatlese, and auslese. The later 2 are on the sweeter side. Do you drink spatlese and auslese by themselves or do you have them with food? What food?



As Michi and Cliff said, they go well with cheese, lighter meat dishes of chicken and pork, and some desserts.

I have found they can also go pretty well with some Asian food. The combination of good acid and residual sugar stands up well to ginger, chilis etc.


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## TM001 (Jul 16, 2021)

I drink more Oregon Pinot Noirs than California but the cooler climate California are very good. For California, I like anything from Walter Hansel, $40 - $50.

A lot of the California Pinot Noirs are overripe to me. For instance, Belle Glos is usually near 15% ABV. If I want an alcoholic ripe wine I drink Zinfandel, usually something from Ridge.


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## boomchakabowwow (Jul 17, 2021)

Walter Hansel does have a good Pinot. It’s what I drink when I eat at their restaurant.


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## MarcelNL (Jul 17, 2021)

did anyone mention Italian (Puglia) Primitivo with it's rich tannins and stew-y blackberries and red fruits yet?
(just put one in the fridge)


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## Cliff (Jul 17, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> did anyone mention Italian (Puglia) Primitivo with it's rich tannins and stew-y blackberries and red fruits yet?
> (just put one in the fridge)



For Americans, I believe this is the homeland/origin of Zinfandel


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## MarcelNL (Jul 17, 2021)

Cliff said:


> For Americans, I believe this is the homeland/origin of Zinfandel


yep, although it's origin is even further away, from Croatia; Crljenak Kaštelanski, or so I read


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