# Diamond stone survey high alloy steels



## LostHighway (Sep 5, 2021)

ping @Steampunk, @SolidSnake03, @Barmoley, ... 
I'm looking for comments on diamond stones (other than Atoma or DMT) specifically in the context of sharpening Z-Wear, MagnaCut, SG2/R2 and to a lesser extent S35VN, Vanadis 23, Dalman's HSS1, etc.. I only have experience with a couple of these alloys and IME the Shaptons will get the job done but it pushes their limits and I'm looking for a better tool. I know some of you have tried a multitude of diamonds stones and I'm looking for comparisons and performance per dollar recommendations.


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## SolidSnake03 (Sep 5, 2021)

So I can chime in here a bit in that I've used a lot of diamond stones, plates, super vitrified diamond stones etc... and own a wide variety of steels from the kitchen knife and pocket knife worlds. I've used the plates/diamonds below and sharpened the further below steels

*Stuff I've sharpened with*

Atoma 140, 400, 1200 - don't really recommend sharpening with, feel terrible and leave deep scratches, the 1200 is actually okay for light stropping type sharpening for knives you don't like or care about but yeah it feels bad and wails like a banshee also the finish is...not good

DMT (a whole bunch of them) - similar to the Atoma stuff, actually did use these for a while along time ago when I was mostly just a pocket knife guy, for harder use pocket knives they are fine but consistency/product quality can be hit or miss

Jon's 1k+6k Diamond Set - Wonderful, feels actually okay, the 1k is a great stone, the 6k is good but to be honest not my favorite and I usually don't use mine too much. Prefer the finish of the higher grit Venev diamond plates and the Naniwa Diamond plates

Naniwa Diamond Plates - Most folks seem to be prefer Jon's stuff or the Venev but I actually like these quite a bit. Have the 800 and 3k and both are quite nice. Decent feel (although Jon's is better), nice finish overall and good bitey edges. I like the color coding as well and you can easily clean them/cut the binder with a Chosera nagura stone (that brown colored one) so pretty easy to keep them fresh. Not the fastest but I still like mine

Venev Diamond Plates - These are the best bang for your buck price wise. You get 2 grits for the price of 1 compared to everyone else. Even less actually if you go with the thinner stock ones. Great plates, feel isn't good but eh, they cut great, easy to clean with bar keepers friend and or a nagura and are just good working plates overall. Don't break the bank and are way better than Atoma or DMT for sharpening

TripleB Super Vitrified Diamond - These are the king of the hill to me, have the 400 Grit and use it for basically every soft stainless or friend/family knife I sharpen. Not much feel, sounds a bit rough but cuts like a devil, no clogging, no loading and mine looks like new after probably 200 knives. Best money I've spent on sharpening ever but boy was it a lot of money.

Jon's 800 Vitrified Diamond Stone - See Triple B super vitrified diamond, quite similar but the Triple B one I have is 400 vs 800 so kinda tough to compare cutting speed. Great stone, top of the heap. Cuts everything and anything.

Spyderco CBN Plate 400/800 Grit - I'm including this since I think it does fit here even though it really isn't a diamond stone. Wrote a bit more about this one since I don't see a lot of info on the web regarding impressions on this thing. That said it is used a lot like one and really does fit in this realm in terms of the things it can sharpen and how it behaves. This feels pretty rough, sounds like a banshee again like a DMT or Atoma but leaves a much better kitchen edge in my use. This acts more like a diamond plate like a DMT as well in that there really isn't a binder to cut or anything to flatten on it. Cuts fast on everything as well and works great dry as well as lightly damp with water. The 400 side pulls a burr right away and the 800 refines decently. I get oddly long edge retention out of this plate even compared to roughly equal grit diamond plates. Sharpened a Sabatier Carbon with this at the 800 and have been slaying small tasks at home with it for about a month now without a touch up. Stuff like shallots, onions, occasional sandwich and tomatoes. No joke, it's kinda weird but somehow I've gotten excellent retention out of it regarding whatever I've sharpened with it. Found the same thing with my Spyderco VG10 Dargonfly 2, sharpening it with this plate has led to weirdly long edge retention. Don't have a good explaination for it but it's noticeable when comparing it to how long the edge lasts on other stuff. Kinda fits in the same realm as the Venev but you don't get finer than 800 so definitely not everyones cup of tea edge wise. 

*Stuff I've sharpened (steels) specifically that is in the higher RHC/tougher to sharpen category to some folks*
ZDP189
Hap40
SG2/R2
SRS15
S35vN
Maxamet
S110v
k390
m390

*Take Home Points*
- All of these plates will cut any of these steels just fine.
-They will tend to leave more toothy/aggressive edges to me.
-Feel isn't a strong suit of any of these but the Atoma and DMT feel the worst by a good margin. The rest feel....fine.
-Everything cuts fast relatively speaking given these steels but the Super Vitrified are on another level of fast. You want to see a knife melt? Get these. Everything else is pretty even cutting speed wise with maybe the Naniwa being a bit slower and the Atoma being a bit faster but again the Atoma kinda suck to sharpen on so...
-If cost is no object go Super Vitrified, it's next level.
-If cost matters go Venev, you get way more bang for you buck across the board with these
-If cost matters and you just need a medium grit plate/stone Jon's 1k bought by itself is excellent as is the Naniwa 800.

Hope that covers what you are looking for. 

Also I included DMT and Atoma just for a point of reference on this, I know that isn't what you were after but helped correlate how the rest feel/where they are at.


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## Dominick Maone (Sep 5, 2021)

Who do we talk to to make this thread a sticky?


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## kayman67 (Sep 5, 2021)

It's really hard to beat Venev + Spyderco combo, considering price.


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## SolidSnake03 (Sep 5, 2021)

Just saw the post by Kayman about Spyderco and have added a thing about the Spyderco CBN plate which although not diamond kinda falls in the same category in a sense. The spyderco ceramics are actually very nice stones too although not diamonds at all and are quite different so leaving that out of this discussion.


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## Steampunk (Sep 5, 2021)

I don't have anywhere near the experience of @SolidSnake03 when it comes to resin/vitrified bond diamonds. I'm just starting to play around with them. Epic post, dude. 

What I have spent the most spent most time with so far are plates. They're not always as fun or easy to use as stones, but have some unique properties that on certain edge tools I cannot do without. Particularly when I need to make sure that the foundational geometry is _right-on_ (Woodworking tools, folders, fixing frowns/bird beaks/unwanted recurves, etc.). They also are great if I need something that is compact, can be used effectively dry, and is durable to a certain level of physical abuse/contamination if I need to carry and use them under less than ideal conditions.

What they're not my favorites on - and where I'm starting to see resinoid/vitrified diamond being a big improvement with - is the application it sounds like you're looking to purchase diamond stones for... Thin, hard (Sometimes more brittle, like in the case of SG2/R2, sometimes tougher like in the case of HAP-40.) bevels.

Some of the finer and more consistent plates can still do the job depending upon your expectations, and don't cost as much as their resin/vitrified bond brethren. However, they're more challenging to deburr on (Especially when the apexes get really thin, since their surface is utterly unforgiving, and the way you sense your angle is right feels different than on synthetic stones. You sort of just feel the bevel 'click' into place, like when a 'bucky ball' settles onto one of its flat surfaces. This is virtually impossible to sense by touch when that bevel is only a few thousandths wide, but you can feel it on thicker bevels like are often found on modern folders or 'normal' kitchen knives. Otherwise, there's not a lot of sensation when your angles aren't perfect.), do not leave as consistent of a finish (Which can sometimes be a 'pro', but not for aesthetic work.), and as others have said do not feel/sound pleasant.

Some of the finer ones, like the Ultra Sharp 3000 after some break-in can work on thin/hard bevels providing the steel isn't too brittle, or maybe if you're one of those lucky people that can actually find a good DMT Extra-Extra Fine, and it's fully broken in. These (Especially the Ultra Sharp) aren't a ton of money, and leave decent culinary edges on 'better' knives, providing the alloys are towards the tougher side and the hardness isn't taken to the wall (They're okay sometimes on HAP-40.). I can't say they'd ever be my solution of choice for something like Takamura R2, though, which is very thin, somewhat brittle, and gets a little chewed-up even by such very fine plates.

For actual working folders in higher carbide steels, I tend to like coarser or hybrid edges. 600-1200 grit plates typically satisfy just fine; maybe with some diamond compounds thrown in. I especially like the Dianova 600/1200 combo (Probably the best durability I've seen from a plate. They break in, and settle at a certain point really well.), DMT Dia-Fine 600 (If you can get a good one, and it's properly broken in. However, DMT's never last as long as other plates listed here. Only mention it since DMT's grit scale is a bit finer than all the rest, and the edge off a properly broken in/good sample DMT 600 is pretty special.), the Atoma 1200 (Best of the Atoma's for knife edges, IMO. Doesn't feel as bad as the rest, and doesn't need as much breaking-in as most plates. Probably the fastest cutting of the plates at this grit, too.), and Ultra-Sharp 400/1200 combo are nice for this sort of thing... DMT's Extra-Fine 1200 once broken in (Nasty if not.), and the Ultra Sharp 3000 are getting a bit fine for 'working' folder edges sometimes, again IMO. I should try the Ultra-Sharp 2200 one of these days... Love the aggressive edge feel from some of my Spyderco's off the Dianova 1200; wouldn't want it to be much finer on these sorts of blades. If I wanted finer-edged folders for more 'gentlemanly' tasks, I'd be picking lower-carbide steels that wouldn't require diamonds at all.

Not all 'super steels' need diamonds at all grits; some only need them past a certain point. Some don't even need them at all (I'm looking at you, Akifusa SRS-15... Best fine-edge retention I've ever seen for a steel that does not seem to want abrasives harder than AlOx, even at insanely high grits. Kills me that it's a proprietary alloy, as Akifusa's grinds and profiles aren't my favorites, but the way they HT this steel is pretty special.)...

The SG2/R2 you mentioned is one of those steels. It's A-Okay with ceramics up to about the 1K point. Naniwa Pro 800, Suehiro Cerax 1K, Shapton Glass 1K, etc, are all great on this one. It's once that you start going into 2K+ grits, that it seems to start getting sensitive to the abrasives. Some finer AlOx stones will even still work (Especially with hybrid edges.), with some care, on certain heat treatments... For some reason, the Gesshin 6000 Splash & Go produces a better edge on Takamura's R2 than any other fine AlOx synth I've tried on this particular HT of R2/SG2 (Really, a very good one, with decent bite still left.), but some care with technique is required to refine or touch-up the edge on these knives with this stone. It's not fool-proof.

Resin-bonded diamond stones would be a good solution if you wanted a more consistent, stone-only solution to take SG2/R2 above that 1K point... Another solution on a steel like this is to sharpen it using AlOx stones up to whatever grit that steel can still get a really crisp/bite-y apex on (Maybe an 800 grit SiC like the JNS 800 or King NEO, if you need just a little harder abrasive.), and then move onto diamond/CBN pasted strops for a hybrid edge. Much cheaper, and feels really nice to cook with if you like mixed-grit edges, and don't mind the touch-up pattern (These steels can be very responsive to touch-ups on the diamond strop, but each time get just a tiny bit smoother. So, periodically you have to reset the geometry/scratch pattern on the mid grit stone, and maybe do some light maintenance thinning at the same time.).

I've not sharpened CruWear/Z-Wear yet (Though it's high on my list to acquire. Been curious about this stuff for years.), and definitely not gotten my hands on Magnacut yet. Don't know what steel @RDalman is using for his 'HSS1', and I've not gotten to sharpen it. These might be able to respond normally with decent ceramics up to a certain grit point, and then be taken to strops like R2, or they might need diamonds all the way through the progression like some alloys. I'm looking forward to finding out, myself.

I have sharpened S30V, S35VN, Elmax, M390, HAP-40 (A CPM-M3:2 class steel, like Vanadis 23, but with a big whack of cobalt added.), CPM-M4, etc. Got some other things on the way. At the 3%+ vanadium level, I find I get crisper, keener edges using diamonds all the way through the progression from coarse to fine... If they're not taken to the wall in terms of hardness, but are still ground pretty thin, they can be sharpened on fine plates/strops, but resin/vitrified diamond really starts making sense to me in this application if we're talking kitchen knives. Jon's diamond resin stone set is nice is all I can say so far. I'm just getting started with these, so people like @SolidSnake03 can do a much better job about comparing the various resin/vitrified options on the market.

Resinoid/Vitrified diamond stones are really expensive, so I guess it depends upon the class of 'super steel', and the grind of the knives you're working on, as to whether or not you truly need to go there.

If you're interested in a hybrid progression following plates or coarser AlOx/SiC stones, I'd recommend trying out a 1-micron diamond compound on hard balsa or basswood (Don't do too much. It seems like a big jump from 800-1K to 15K, but it works fast.). Tried out quite a number of compound companies... Norton isn't the fastest or most consistent, but produces really nice edges in terms of bite. Jende Poly is more consistent and a little faster cutting, but the edges aren't quite as 'bite-y'. DMT's a bit of a waste of money; so little diamond, so little quantity. Curious to try the Venev diamond pastes... Not really found a CBN I've been in love with, in terms of the kitchen-edges, yet. For kitchen knives, I don't find precisely-graded abrasive pastes to be a virtue, so don't worry about the particle spread being uber-fine. If you're using a really high-abrasive-volume, super-consistently graded paste/spray, it's sometimes best to jump a grit higher (Say, 0.5 rather than 1-micron) if you want to maintain that 'hybrid' edge character, and then return to the base-stone a little more often. Finer than 1-micron can be fun, but don't hold an edge long on most steels in the kitchen, and aren't always powerful enough to touch-up the edge on their own once lost... If you'd like to try finer than 1-micron, I'd switch to a very low-compressability leather, like horse butt or - even better - kangaroo.

Hopefully this helps. It's maybe not what the OP is looking for, though.


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## M1k3 (Sep 5, 2021)

Steampunk said:


> I don't have anywhere near the experience of @SolidSnake03 when it comes to resin/vitrified bond diamonds. I'm just starting to play around with them. Epic post, dude.
> 
> What I have spent the most spent most time with so far are plates. They're not always as fun or easy to use as stones, but have some unique properties that on certain edge tools I cannot do without. Particularly when I need to make sure that the foundational geometry is _right-on_ (Woodworking tools, folders, fixing frowns/bird beaks/unwanted recurves, etc.). They also are great if I need something that is compact, can be used effectively dry, and is durable to a certain level of physical abuse/contamination if I need to carry and use them under less than ideal conditions.
> 
> ...


Nice post.

In my limited experience with Zwear, it's a steel that straddles the line of needing diamond or using regular stones. About 1-2k works fine. Up to about 4k takes longer, need to be more consistent. 6k+ don't bother.


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## LostHighway (Sep 5, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> In my limited experience with Zwear, it's a steel that straddles the line of needing diamond or using regular stones. About 1-2k works fine. Up to about 4k takes longer, need to be more consistent. 6k+ don't bother.



That more or less is my experience although I have never attempted 6K. I do have the Gesshin 6K S&G so maybe I'll give that a try per Steampunk's experience with SG2/R2.


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## Barmoley (Sep 5, 2021)

@SolidSnake03 covered it well. I've used DMT plates, JKI 1+6K and practical sharpening vitrified diamond stones.

DMT 600 and 1200 suck, but cut any steel. 1200 feel is better and could be argued to be bearable, 600 is just horrible. The secret with diamond plates is to use very little pressure and let the diamonds do their thing.

JKI 1+6K are very good. The feel is good similar to some other regular synthetic stones but not as good as gesshin soakers, nothing really is in my opinion. JKI diamonds cut any steel. 6k finish to me is more like 4k gesshin soakers as far as bite goes.

Practical Sharpening vitrified diamond stones are excellent. I have 400, 2k and 6k. I chose his softer matrix.

400 is very fast, sound and feel similar to synthetic stones of the same grit that are relatively hard, so very decent given the grit. It doesn't load much and doesn't seem to wear all that much, but I haven't used it a whole lot and mostly on shun and henkels knives and k390 and 1.2562 that needed some repair. It is very fast.

2k is excellent, the feel is very good similar to synthetic stones of same grit. Gesshin soakers are still better, but we are splitting hairs at this point. It also doesn't load much and cuts fast. The finish it leaves is good enough for most knives and is my general finished edge. Sometimes I finish strop on 6k or diamond loaded leather, but leave at 2k a lot. The stone cuts everything.

6k diamond leaves the edge similar to 4k gesshin in bite. It loads much more than the other stones, but not horribly and is very easily cleaned with nagura. I use 220 grit and it works well. This 6k also wears very slowly and feels good.

2k and 6k were tried on
M390
K390
10V
Z-Wear
S35VN
Vanadis 4
Vanadis 23
Maxamet
Dalman hss1
Hap40
MagnaCut
RDL34
D2
A2
Bulat
1.2562
1.2442
1.2519
Blue 2
Blue super
srs15
YXR-7
145sc
White 2
Aeb-l
52100
125SC
Vg10
Henkels stainless

I'd like to try BBB, but I don't really have a need and given the price I don't want to buy just to try. I am sure they are amazing, given all the positive reviews.

In my opinion vitrified diamond stones are worth the price if you sharpen enough, sharpen all sorts of steels and don't consider sharpening a hobby. In the long run they are the most efficient and cheapest way to sharpen different knife steels.


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## Alder26 (Sep 6, 2021)

Anybody have experience with the nanohone diamond matrix stones?


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## SolidSnake03 (Sep 6, 2021)

Alder26 said:


> Anybody have experience with the nanohone diamond matrix stones?



funny enough I have the 25micro coming soon so I can report back in the near future on these 

may get the 10micro too once I try the 
25


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## Steampunk (Sep 6, 2021)

SolidSnake03 said:


> funny enough I have the 25micro coming soon so I can report back in the near future on these
> 
> may get the 10micro too once I try the
> 25



Been curious about these for awhile... Especially - oddly - the 25. Thank you in advance for the report.


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## SolidSnake03 (Sep 6, 2021)

So turns out there is a delay on the 25u when I just checked in on it/my order so might be a while on those but going to grab a 10u in the mean time and report back.


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## Luftmensch (Sep 7, 2021)

ping @Deadboxhero


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## Luftmensch (Sep 16, 2021)

Okay... I know these arent steels... but i thought it would be worth documenting some lesser known Japanese diamond stone manufacturers:

NSK
Sankyo
iWood
SK11


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## SolidSnake03 (Sep 18, 2021)

Hi All!

So looks like I can't further edit my original post #2 but wanted to add this in now that I've had some time with my Nanohone Diamond Matrix 10u stone/plate.

Nanohone Diamond Matrix 10u - So this is a really interesting stone/plate. As @Rangen mentioned in another thread this is a very weird and unique feeling stone. It doesn't really feel like a diamond plate at all, it's softer, has some give to it and doesn't have any of the typical terrible sounds/grinding feeling that diamond plates typically have (see Atoma, DMT and to a lesser extent Venev, JKI and Naniwa). It's the most enjoyable to use of all these stones in that while feeling a bit "dead" in feeling compared to your typical water stone it doesn't feel harsh or rough like most diamond products do. Cuts about the same as my Naniwa which is to say a bit on the slower side compared to stuff like the Vitrified (whole other league of speed) or the DMT, Atoma, JKI and Venev. Really splitting hairs here though when comparing all the diamond stuff to traditional water stones or to the Vitrified stuff. Cuts all the steels I tried on it so a wide range of stuff, no noticeable issues there even with Maxamet. Works well dry or wet, tried it both ways and the wet feels slightly better but really doesn't matter too much. The most unique part I've seen from this aside from the feeling of the stone overall is the level of shine/polish. For 10u I can get a shiny, catch the light and sparkle edge which normally requires a lot higher grit/finish level. The finish seems to be incredibly even/bright/clean (no detectable big gouges or streaks) for a diamond plate/diamond based sharpening stone. That said, the edge is definitely in the 10u range in that it has plenty of bite for softer veggies, skins on stuff etc... so the edge itself feels more bitey than the shine or polish level would indicate. It's one of my weirder diamond plates to be honest but I like it.

Regarding loading and or swarf, I've included this from my below post. Added it here so that it is easier to find/keeps more of the info all together.
There is some slight darkening to the matrix after sharpening a dozen or so knives on it but no detectable slowing down or clogging. Better than the Naniwa in this regard and about even to the Venev and JKI where I would see some loading but no major issues with it. The Naniwa tend to load a bit fast especially the 3k but again this is fast for a Diamond stones so still really slowly compared to loading on a lot of water stones.

I may not keep it because I have so many other diamond plates/stones/devices of various sorts and want to try out the CGSW Resin Bonded Diamond yet but it's certainly earned it's worth/keep. Price is fairly middle ground, cheaper than Naniwa or JKI but more than Venev, Atoma and DMT. This would make a great touch up stone for work, keeping in a locker, under your table etc... since you don't need any water, cuts quickly, leaves bite, has no mess to it, doesn't howl like a banshee and overall seems very no nonsense. Would make a good 1 stone touch up, used it this way on my Blue #1 Murata which is at like 64 RHC or something fairly high and it brought the edge back in about 30 seconds or less. If you aren't a fan of a fine ceramic rod like the MAC Black I would suggest this for sure. I prefer it over my MAC Black just because I feel more control stropping on a plate than a rod.

Anyways, weird stone but works well and has some unique properties in it's space. It's neat and I think more folks should try one, plus you can flatten them with the Nanohone NL4 flattener no problem so that's nice too.


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## M1k3 (Sep 18, 2021)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Hi All!
> 
> So looks like I can't further edit my original post #2 but wanted to add this in now that I've had some time with my Nanohone Diamond Matrix 10u stone/plate.
> 
> ...


How's the loading up of swarf? Or did I miss that?


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## SolidSnake03 (Sep 18, 2021)

Don’t think I mentioned that, good call. There is some slight darkening to the matrix after sharpening a dozen or so knives on it but no detectable slowing down or clogging. Better than the Naniwa in this regard and about even to the Venev and JKI where I would see some loading but no major issues with it. The Naniwa tend to load a bit fast especially the 3k but again this is fast for a Diamond stones so still really slowly compared to loading on a lot of water stones.


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## SolidSnake03 (Sep 19, 2021)

Wanted to add another quick follow up on the Nanohone Diamond Matrix 10u, seems to be a nice stopping point for stainless or pm steels as well as a great clean up stone. Took a few stainless knives and a R2 Takamura to Chosera 1k then Nanohone Diamond 10u and holy crap it’s a mean edge. The 10u did a wonderful job refining the edge a little more and helping clean up and residual burr. We are talking smooth s cuts through paper that are borderline silent aside from that sweet paper cutting singing noise of a sharp edge. This combo saves a lot of time over my typical stainless or pm route of 1k to 3k to 8k then strop without leaving a worse edge in use. Something about the weird resin or matrix of the plate seems to be helping rip off stubborn burrs really well. Normally Takamura r2 is a bit of a chasing burrs thing for me hence the 8k before the edge feels really clean. This cleaned it up beautifully. Also, if it’s quiet around you you can hear a little crunch or grind when a bit of burr or loose metal comes off. Very interesting stone. Worth more research and experiments for sure.


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## talcum (Jan 27, 2022)

I'm struggling with the vanadium steels in pocket knives with the very curvy blades. I can't make the edge follow the surface of my normal glassstones. Could I use one of these stones to add a slurry on one of my usual sharpening rods or stones for pocket knives?

Scratch this after looking at some of the links, it looks like there are many options for sharpening machines with diamond plates.


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## Troopah_Knives (Jan 27, 2022)

@LostHighway This is mostly reiterating what others have said. If you are only working small volumes (Sharpening a few of your own knives). The Venev stones are great and for a slight upgrade, you can go with a CGSW stone. I've tried both, both work well. IMO they are the exact opposite of the diamond plates and the grit doesn't stick out very far leading to a somewhat finer than expected finish. If you can cough up the money @Deadboxhero has the best stuff on the market and for just your own stuff you could pick up his 1k and maybe a finer CGSW stone or pick up his 3k (I have one and that thing cuts fast I use it to set secondary bevels on my knives) and just do larger amounts of stock removal (removing chips etc) on a cheap low grit SiC stone (Gritomatic has them although I haven't tried any).


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 27, 2022)

talcum said:


> I'm struggling with the vanadium steels in pocket knives with the very curvy blades. I can't make the edge follow the surface of my normal glassstones. Could I use one of these stones to add a slurry on one of my usual sharpening rods or stones for pocket knives?
> 
> Scratch this after looking at some of the links, it looks like there are many options for sharpening machines with diamond plates.



Glass stones are not ideal for high-vanadium steels. I recommend diamond and Ultra Sharp offers good quality at an approachable price.

In the pocket knife world, there can be some crazy grinds so it's hard to say for sure but in general, you need to be lifting your elbow on the belly. That is the case on any knife with a belly but it can be much steeper on some pocket knives. Sharpie on the edge bevel is your friend here. It will show you what you're doing and how to adjust.

Machines/systems can be quite useful but consider what I just said and you realize one of their primary shortcomings, they don't adjust for blade curve. Yes, you can get a sharp edge but eventually you'll start straightening out the curve.


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## talcum (Jan 28, 2022)

Yeah. It was my ZT 0350BW and the recurve that was giving me trouble. 





And my old edge pro stones seem to just burnish the S30V steel and my diamond plates are just that, plates, and can't get into the belly. Argh! Will look at one of the machines with diamond or CGSW stones for future use.


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## kayman67 (Jan 28, 2022)

Well, if you don't care much about finish perfection, you can use the side edges. It works. Even with Atoma I was able to grind away.
You could also get this going with Spyderco diamond/cbn rods or some other options that are diamond based, like DMT's honing rod. Since these are single grits pretty much, the only easy way to finish beyond, would be diamond strops.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 28, 2022)

talcum said:


> Yeah. It was my ZT 0350BW and the recurve that was giving me trouble.
> View attachment 163079
> 
> And my old edge pro stones seem to just burnish the S30V steel and my diamond plates are just that, plates, and can't get into the belly. Argh! Will look at one of the machines with diamond or CGSW stones for future use.





kayman67 said:


> Well, if you don't care much about finish perfection, you can use the side edges. It works. Even with Atoma I was able to grind away.
> You could also get this going with Spyderco diamond/cbn rods or some other options that are diamond based, like DMT's honing rod. Since these are single grits pretty much, the only easy way to finish beyond, would be diamond strops.



Yep, recurves suck. Well, in my humble opinion anyway.

I agree with Kayman about the Spyderco Sharpmaker rods or some diamond rods. For stropping, you can put some diamond spray or emulsion on a wood dowel.


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## sansho (Mar 30, 2022)

any new stone updates, anyone? snake? (snake?? snaaaaake!!!)

i actually don't have knives in steels that are annoying to sharpen with traditional stones, but i love the high convenience, low mess, not having to flatten them, etc. and it's nice to know i'm covered if i ever do get knives like that.

i have the jki 1k+6k resinoid diamond stones and love them. i've even used the 1k to get a friend's abused, actually-dull knife sharpened because it was the coarsest stone i had there. it took a while, but it worked admirably. the stone is reasonably fast.

i have the gesshin 400 soaker but wanted a coarse diamond. then i saw @cotedupy's excellent norton india combo stone thread. a coarse combo, dish-resistant stone for only ~30usd? not a diamond stone, and maybe it's not the best choice for wear-resistant super steels, but promising indeed. i haven't used it yet. degreasing it now since i want to try to use it as a water stone.

the tripleB 400 vitrified is certainly one i've had my eye on, but those are hard to come by. they weren't even offered on the most recent sale 5 days ago. i wonder how it compares to the jki 300A resinoid (or the jki 800 vitrified).

i did just manage to snag a tripleB vitrified 1000 from their most recent sale. i'm already regretting not getting a 3000 as well since i could have easily sold it if i didn't like it. haven't tried the BBB 1k yet, but it should arrive in a few days.

*has anyone compared the BBB 1k vitrified to the jki 800 vitrified or jki 1k resinoid?*

also, what grits are the BBB stones offered in? 400, 1k, and 3k, but are there others?

inspired by snake's wtb success, i was tempted to put out a wtb of my own (or asking jki if there are any that can be assembled for sale) to try to score a jki vitrified 800. but then i got the BBB 1k, so i'm guessing there's no point.


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## Troopah_Knives (Mar 30, 2022)

He also offers a 5k stone.


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## SolidSnake03 (Mar 30, 2022)

You rang?

Cant comment too much more on new stuff as I've kinda hit the point of tried it all and written about it all somewhere or another on these forums when it comes to diamond stuff. That's both a good and a bad thing haha. That said I'm happy to help in sharing my thoughts on this things specifically. 

For the Triple B I've got 400, 1k and 3k stones/used those stones extensively in the past so can comment on any of those you would like. From Jon I've had his Diamond Plates as well as the Gesshin 800 Vitrified and used the 300A although that was brief so can't say too much about that one aside from it's very nice and cuts super fast and it's all around just a beefy low grit diamond. I've used all the Naniwa Diamonds as well as well as the Venev and the CGSW stuff. The Nanohone Diamond Resin as well. 

For your comparison in particular, I would consider the Gesshin 800 Vit and the TripleB in a different league than the JKI Resinoid Diamonds and really any of the other diamond plates like Venev, Naniwa and Nanohone etc... The Vitrified stuff is faster, hasn't worn at all in 100's of knives, no real loading or slowing down, no detectable wear at all. They are basically a better version of all the other diamond plates in pretty much every way except cost and also way harder to get which kinda sucks but is what it is. 

Now comparing the Gesshin 800 vit to the TripleB is interesting. Performance wise they both cut crazy fast, super consistent, don't wear at all in normal use (like I've done 100+ knives and no detectable wear, the Gesshin discolors a little but doesn't load or slow down, the TripleB doesn't really discolor or anything. They both feel quite hard but the Gesshin has better tactile feedback by a noticeable degree. It has a feeling much more like a typical hard synthetic stone while the TripleB feels a bit more like a typical diamond plate. It still has more feeling than say Venev or Naniwa or JKI diamond plates but it has noticeable less tactility than the Gesshin 800 Vit. I like that the Gesshin 800 Vit is the size of a regular 8x3 stone or so so you have more width to work with which is nice for bigger knives while the TripleB are a bit smaller overall in terms of length and width. Not a big deal but a difference. Any other specific questions I'm happy to answer, not sure how many folks have owned all of these so I know comparison's can be tough in this space.


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## Barmoley (Mar 30, 2022)

Sorry I missed your JKI 800 sale @SolidSnake03, wanted to get it to compare to BBB, which I am very happy with, but just for the hell of it.


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