# Lasers?



## aikon2020 (Feb 4, 2021)

The Takamura R2 and somewhat the VG10 version as well are lasers imo. But what more lasers are there out there? (that you can get in Europe)

Btw I feel that the Kurosaki AS 210 gyuto isn't a laser, more of a workhorse to my hands in feel.


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## tostadas (Feb 4, 2021)

Ashi Ginga, or JKI version Gesshin Ginga


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## LostHighway (Feb 4, 2021)

Shibata


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## Giovanny Torres (Feb 4, 2021)

Konosuke GS+


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## choochoochop (Feb 4, 2021)

Which is the best laser?


Stupid question, but which are the best laser gyutos and how exactly do people use these? Is the preferred length for a laser different from a person's preferred length for a more typical gyuto?




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## Olsen (Feb 4, 2021)

JNS Tanaka gyutos.


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## chiffonodd (Feb 4, 2021)

Don't forget the takamura chromax line. It's very thin as well -- cuts as good or better than the r2 line. And nice to have the 64-65 hrc SKD-12/A2 core steel.


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## mikemac (Feb 4, 2021)

Tadatsuna
IMHO, the original forum laser...maybe


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## Marcelo Amaral (Feb 4, 2021)

My Gesshin Ittetsu White #2 gyuto is a laser, although i asked for the thinnest one available at the time of purchase.


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## 0x0x (Feb 4, 2021)

Key Kobayashi SG2 is a really nice laser!


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## 4wa1l (Feb 4, 2021)

Makoto Kurosaki R2


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## Jason183 (Feb 4, 2021)

Not sure if Yoshikazu Tanaka’ knives falls into the laser category, but his knives cuts better than most lasers I have tried( Kono Hd2, GS+ Togatta, ma Makoto Sakura, Shibata Kotetsu, Carter apprentice slicer)


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## DavidPF (Feb 4, 2021)

mikemac said:


> Tadatsuna
> IMHO, the original forum laser...maybe


Has the idea of "laser" become more laser-y over time? (i.e. are there knives that would have been called lasers in the past, but the same knife wouldn't "qualify" anymore)


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## jacko9 (Feb 4, 2021)

Konosuke Fujiyama FT B#2 - they don't use this sharpener any longer but this knife is a true laser and holds an edge. I picked up a 240mm Gyuto and it will be with me until one of my off-springs gets it.


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## Jovidah (Feb 4, 2021)

The big challenge in Europe is a lot of the 'usual' recommendations are hard / impossible to find in Europe. Import from US is usually cost-prohibitive due to shipping + import costs.... Japan is usually the better bet there, with at least shipping being cheaper, but you're still playing customs lottery.
For example the only retailer stocking Gingas in Europe is in Switzerland...which isn't part of the EU.  Konosuke might be affordable at some retailers in the US but here in the EU the only sellers that stock them tend to be way overpriced.
Takamura is probably the most widely available and affordable if you don't mind a western handle.


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## mikemac (Feb 5, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> Has the idea of "laser" become more laser-y over time? (i.e. are there knives that would have been called_ lasers in the past, but the same knife wouldn't "qualify" anymore_)



Just a guess but generally...no
Rather, I think names of the past are more impacted by the 'New Black' phenomena and people chasing tulip bulbs. 
Plus, a well sharpened knife will cut like a laser, and a dull laser will cut like shyte, so...


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## Ruso (Feb 5, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> Has the idea of "laser" become more laser-y over time? (i.e. are there knives that would have been called lasers in the past, but the same knife wouldn't "qualify" anymore)


I think the answer is kinda, yes.

For example Kono HD used to be called a laser. Now days, people will fight you if you say Kono HD is a laser.


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## JaVa (Feb 5, 2021)

Lasers are fun. They have their own thing. That effortless and resistant free cutting feel is very different from anything else. Like cutting butter with a hot wire. Fun.
But if I need to blow thru a ton of stuff in no time I too will go for something more powerful.

The Shiro Kamo Arashi from CC should be pretty laser-ish. I mean with a blade hight of 55mm and blade length at 246mm and not with a ho wood handle, but rather with a heavier darker wood handle and still it weighs only 170g. There can't be much meat over those bones.





Gyuto


Gyuto Shiro Kamo | Arashi Blade length: 240 mm



www.cleancut.eu





The Shiro Kamo KU (Black Dragon) is also pretty thin but more of a thin middle weight. The Shiro Kamo Carbon Damascus is a bit thinner and could be thought as a laser. I've had four Kamo knives and two were thin middleweights and two very very thin lasers.

He makes most of his knives quite thin and you can always emphasis that by asking the vendor to pick out a thin one.


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## toddnmd (Feb 5, 2021)

Ruso said:


> Kono HD is a laser.



Let’s take this outside . . .


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## DavidPF (Feb 5, 2021)

mikemac said:


> Just a guess but generally...no





Ruso said:


> I think the answer is kinda, yes.





toddnmd said:


> Let’s take this outside . . .


I hadn't been expecting this strong of a consensus this early.  



mikemac said:


> Plus, a well sharpened knife will cut like a laser, and a dull laser will cut like shyte, so...


...so, the noob confusion between "laser" knives and "AHOALSTWIG"*** knives?

*** (A hell of a lot sharper than what I've got)


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## Barmoley (Feb 5, 2021)

There is no official definition for a laser or mid weight or workhorse. It is mostly relative, so on the margins you get arguments. Some knives that are really thin are considered lasers, but a knife slightly thicker might be considered a thin mid weight, etc. For example, Miz KS is pretty thin, but definitely not a laser and some consider it a workhorse in the can do anything workhorse meaning, not super convex, thick, food release monster, even though it has surprisingly good food release. Or Kato standard vs Kato workhorse, different dimensions, but similar grinds so in this case the name doesn’t describe the grind, but difference in dimensions mostly.


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## chiffonodd (Feb 5, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> The big challenge in Europe is a lot of the 'usual' recommendations are hard / impossible to find in Europe. Import from US is usually cost-prohibitive due to shipping + import costs.... Japan is usually the better bet there, with at least shipping being cheaper, but you're still playing customs lottery.
> For example the only retailer stocking Gingas in Europe is in Switzerland...which isn't part of the EU.  Konosuke might be affordable at some retailers in the US but here in the EU the only sellers that stock them tend to be way overpriced.
> Takamura is probably the most widely available and affordable if you don't mind a western handle.



I don't know if importing from Singapore is any better for Europeans, but Razorsharp seems to have a pretty good stock of Ashi Gingas. And they have the higher heat treat (61-62hrc) on the stainless models. Just nabbed a 180 petty from them, currently inbound.


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## DavidPF (Feb 5, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> ... in the can do anything workhorse meaning, ...


Yes, the words are all a bit fuzzy in the way they get used, but it's close enough. And a knife maker can intentionally blur the categories to hopefully make a knife that would appeal to more people at once.


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## inferno (Feb 5, 2021)

i dont know what the actual definition of a lazor is but my jck r2 vortex damascus santoku is probably the thinnest knife i own. 
also the akifusa srs15 are very thin. they feel kinda flimsy to be honest. but i guess they are hard to break.


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## Barmoley (Feb 5, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> Yes, the words are all a bit fuzzy in the way they get used, but it's close enough. And a knife maker can intentionally blur the categories to hopefully make a knife that would appeal to more people at once.


In general close enough but not always, take Heiji for example, workhorse from a grind standpoint, good food release. Very hard heat treat and generally thin edge, so not a do anything bang around workhorse. There are others like that where the two uses of workhorse contradict each other. In this sense laser is more consistent, just open to some interpretation. It is normal when using one word to describe qualities of a complex object.


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## DavidPF (Feb 5, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> a do anything bang around workhorse


Workhorse has two meanings, and I guess maybe beater also has two meanings. One of them seems pretty similar to this meaning of workhorse; the other is _any_ knife being used in ways that reasonably might damage it, with little or no concern for whether the damage happens.


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## inferno (Feb 5, 2021)

whenever i read workhorse my brain somehow interprets it as whorehouse. i dont know why.


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## Barmoley (Feb 5, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> .....with little or no concern for whether the damage happens.



No one cares about these by definition, nothing to discuss. Workhorse as a tough, harder to damage than usual knife is interesting. Too bad the other meaning is thicker, heavier with good food release because even though one knife could be both, it doesn’t have to be. In any case not a big deal once you have some context and experience. Can be confusing for people starting out though.

Getting back to lasers....some assume that laser has to be fragile since it is thinner, but this doesn’t have to be true either. Kitchen knives in general are not used in a way to break the knife itself and hard thin edges and tips break on any knife so you could have a tough laser and a fragile thick knife.

Then there are knives with dramatic taper that could act as a workhorse close to the heel and laser closer to the tip


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 5, 2021)

mikemac said:


> Tadatsuna
> IMHO, the original forum laser...maybe


I still use mine. I guess I'm not in the mood to chase every new fad maker on this one.


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## McMan (Feb 5, 2021)

mikemac said:


> Tadatsuna
> IMHO, the original forum laser...maybe





Noodle Soup said:


> I still use mine. I guess I'm not in the mood to chase every new fad maker on this one.


My favorite laser too.


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## coffeelover191919 (Feb 5, 2021)

Kato SG2 any good as a laser?


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## JaVa (Feb 6, 2021)

The meaning of "workhorse" got twisted after Maksim labelled his version of Kato with the workhorse kanji. Ever since then the meaning started shifting more to the a fat bastard of knife with great food release grind.

I'm looking at it thru a horse analogy.
Laser knives are the agile, super fit and fast race horses.
Middleweight knives are your great run of the mill, do it all farm horses.
Workhorse knives are the big, thick and powerful horses ready to plow thru a field with out breaking a sweat.

Back to lasers:
My all time favorite laser is this.








Tanaka Blue 2 Stainless Clade Gyuto 240mm Lite, with Migaki Finish


Measurement Measurements Weight 216 g Total Length 390 mm Tip to Heel Length 242 mm Blade Height at Heel 51.2 mm Width of Spine Above Heel 3.2 mm Width of Spine at Middle of Blade 2.5 mm Width of Spine at about 1cm From the Tip 2.0 mm Steel Blue 2 core with stainless clad Hardness HRC...



knivesandstones.us





There are two versions with different spine thicknesses in the circulation. Both coming from K&S. One is a middleweight with superb convex grind and the other is true laser with convex grind. Not 100% sure which one is this. I have two of the laser type Tanaka migakis. One B2 and one in ginsan. This one weighs about 10g more than mine so hard to tell which it is, the laser or the middleweight. If it peaks someones interest, better to verify from James just to be sure.

Either way, being an S. Tanaka, the grinds and heat treats are going to be brilliant.


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## adam92 (Feb 6, 2021)

I have Ashi Ginga petty stainless 210mm & Takamura R2 red handle, they're both laser.

F&F Takamura better
Handle Takamura better
easy to sharpen Ashi ginga. easiest knife I've ever sharp.
Hold the edge, Takamura much better, but harder to sharpen.

blade height for Takamura is quite short, can hit the knuckle if you have big hand.

I have brought another second hand Ashi Ginga gyuto 210mm to try out. I'll update my feedback.


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## deanb (Feb 6, 2021)

Suisin Inox Honyaki. I have 270mm gyuto and an 8” petty and are both lasers.


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## JBroida (Feb 6, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> Has the idea of "laser" become more laser-y over time? (i.e. are there knives that would have been called lasers in the past, but the same knife wouldn't "qualify" anymore)


yes


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## thebradleycrew (Feb 6, 2021)

I think of lasers, mid-weights, and WH knives in terms of grams per mm of blade length in standard gyuto sizes (think 210-270mm) and Wa handle. There is of course variances created by heel height and handle differences, but for me, I tend to think of a laser as a knife weighing at under 75% of blade length in grams, mid-weight at 75-100% of blade length in grams, and WH as over 100% of blade length in grams. So for example:
230mm gyuto, wa handle:
Laser = under 173 grams
Mid-weight - 174-230 grams
WH = 231 grams +
A big caveat is that I use this as a rule of thumb only, but I've found it's a good test to get a sense of a knife without seeing it or looking at a choil and spine shot; in only a few circumstances have I found variances to this, and as @Barmoley states, there is a lot of grey area in here.


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## McMan (Feb 6, 2021)

I keep it simple:
2-3mm spine above the heel = laser.


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## madmotts (Feb 6, 2021)

McMan said:


> I keep it simple:
> 2-3mm spine above the heel = laser.


I like this but add in weight too. I have a Shibata ktip 240mm @ 6.2oz which fits the bill. Maybe some folks would “weigh-in” on weight criteria.


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## madmotts (Feb 6, 2021)

Oops... Bradleycrew has that <173g and <3mm (mcman). 

Are takedas lasers?


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## McMan (Feb 6, 2021)

madmotts said:


> Oops... Bradleycrew has that <173g and <3mm (mcman).
> 
> Are takedas lasers?


You're question's uncovering my real bias about lasers... I think a laser is also monosteel with a pretty flat grind (plus just a tad of convex). With my bias, a clad knife can never be a laser no matter how thin it is  So, Takeda's doubly DQed!--has cladding plus has something going on with the grind.

The crazy forged-hollow/S-grind/arrow-grind whatever you want to call it grind puts them in some special category with an asterisk. I've got one of the middle versions of the new grind style (~5 years old). It's got a medium spine. I've got another that's ~15 years old that is thicker than that. Takeda's grind's changed a lot over the past 15 years... 

Your question had me check the spine thickness of Takedas now (I looked on togo)--looks like 2.8mm for a 240?! Crazy!


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## zacho (Oct 18, 2021)

My Hitohira Futana SB Migaki Gyuto 210mm. 

Is this a laser? It's my first proper knife and have no clue what constitutes a laser.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Oct 18, 2021)

I think for a 240 knife, anything with a 2.5mm or thinner spine out of the handle and 125g or less weight without handle could be lasers.


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## PtownPhil (Oct 18, 2021)

Takeda, Kato and Shibata are my usual brands. Technical definition of a laser as I understood it was a blade no thicker than 2mm from heel to tip.


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## Lpn562 (Oct 18, 2021)

I enjoy lasers! And all knives.


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## Jovidah (Oct 21, 2021)

McMan said:


> I keep it simple:
> 2-3mm spine above the heel = laser.


I don't think spine thickness is all that informative when it comes to cutting performance. It says nothing about thickness behind the edge. You can still have a clunky wedger with 2-3mm spine as long as it's too thick behind the edge.
IMO thickness behind the edge is also what's most important for that 'laser' experience.
The problem is; where do you draw the line? How do you classify a Yoshikane, that might have a fatter spine at least above the heel, but for all practical purposes still pretty much cuts like a laser with a fatter spine? Even things such as weight can be deceptive.


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## toast (Oct 21, 2021)

Agreed. It was fascinating to experience knives with much thicker spines having more of that laser quality than sub 2mm thick blades when I was first exploring options.


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## rstcso (Oct 21, 2021)

How about Isasmedjan? The honyaki I got from BST is 232x51 and comes in at 171g. Super nimble.


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## Jovidah (Oct 21, 2021)

Even the weight doesn't say much IMO when you don't know where in the knife the weight is. And different handle materials can cause significant differences in total knife weight (and balance, which impacts perceived weight).


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## McMan (Oct 21, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> I don't think spine thickness is all that informative when it comes to cutting performance. It says nothing about thickness behind the edge. You can still have a clunky wedger with 2-3mm spine as long as it's too thick behind the edge.
> IMO thickness behind the edge is also what's most important for that 'laser' experience.
> The problem is; where do you draw the line? How do you classify a Yoshikane, that might have a fatter spine at least above the heel, but for all practical purposes still pretty much cuts like a laser with a fatter spine? Even things such as weight can be deceptive.


I wasn’t discussing cutting performance, I was discussing how I define “laser”. I consider it first and foremost a very thin knife. Sure, it may or may not cut well, and just because it’s thin overall doesn’t always mean that it’ll have appropriate attention BTE . Like any “type”, there can be good and bad examples within the category. That the spine is thin is important to note because it speaks to lack of the possibility for much operating (e.g. convex) in the space between spine and edge.

There’s no way I would call a Yoshi a laser though. It’s thin behind the edge (at least some are), but it ain’t no laser. It has entirely different properties in the grind precisely because of its spine thickness. In my thinking, it’s an entirely different type/style of knife.


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## Jovidah (Oct 21, 2021)

Yes but how useful is the label if you don't include edge thickness? There's plenty of knives thinner than a Yoshikane that are thicker behind the edge and that will go worse through hard products / root vegetables. If you don't include cutting performance how informative is the label anymore? 
I'm reluctant to say what is or isn't a laser, or how it _should _be defined, but simply going off spine thickness just says very little IMO. Going by that definition - especially when you say 2-3mm - almost every bog standard monosteel wester-handled budget gyuto from Japan would be a laser.


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## McMan (Oct 21, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> Yes but how useful is the label if you don't include edge thickness? There's plenty of knives thinner than a Yoshikane that are thicker behind the edge and that will go worse through hard products / root vegetables. If you don't include cutting performance how informative is the label anymore?
> I'm reluctant to say what is or isn't a laser, or how it _should _be defined, but simply going off spine thickness just says very little IMO. Going by that definition - especially when you say 2-3mm - almost every bog standard monosteel wester-handled budget gyuto from Japan would be a laser.


You’re discussing performance.
I’m discussing categories.
Of course there will be different levels of performance for knives within a given category. It does not mean the category is not helpful when it comes to classifying knives though…


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## McMan (Oct 21, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> Going by that definition - especially when you say 2-3mm - almost every bog standard monosteel wester-handled budget gyuto from Japan would be a laser.


Yeah. I don't have any problem calling whatever "bog standard" knife you're talking about a laser if it's 2-3mm at the spine. Doesn't mean they are necessarily good performers. Again, variability within the category in terms of performance. But it does indicate that there will be relatively little room for the grind to operate because the blade cross section is so thin. 
I don't use "laser" as a commentary on performance. I use it to mean a thin knife--thin in total not just BTE.


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## MowgFace (Oct 21, 2021)

I am with @McMan, to me the category Laser has always been the same. <2.5mm spine, AND thin at the edge. Usually monosteel (back in the day)

You can always argue other knives cut better, but to me the term "laser" never signified it was the best performer or moved through food "the best." Just that it moved through food like a laser. People used to argue Takayuki Grand Cheff was a laser on paper, but due to its thickness behind the edge, was excluded. Some Takeda are thin enough at the spine, but were always excluded because ALL Takeda's split veggies like logs.

As we mentioned, for a long time Tadatsuna, Ginga, Konosuke were the "lasers." Never considered them the BEST performers, just performed like lasers.


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## Barmoley (Oct 21, 2021)

Another point in favor of McMan's definition is that thickness behind the edge changes through out knife's life and can also, fairly easily, be changed by the end user. So that if we took thickness behind the edge as the definition the knife would jump in and out of the category through its life. Spine thickness can't be easily change and doesn't change through use. There will be some knives like Kippington lasers that have thicker spines or knives with extreme hollow grinds that would have thick spines but thin blades over all that would not qualify as lasers in this definition.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Oct 21, 2021)

McMan said:


> I don't use "laser" as a commentary on performance. I use it to mean a thin knife--thin in total not just BTE.


Agree. There could be good lasers there could be bad lasers. They don’t have to perform well.


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## Jovidah (Oct 23, 2021)

McMan said:


> Yeah. I don't have any problem calling whatever "bog standard" knife you're talking about a laser if it's 2-3mm at the spine. Doesn't mean they are necessarily good performers. Again, variability within the category in terms of performance. But it does indicate that there will be relatively little room for the grind to operate because the blade cross section is so thin.
> I don't use "laser" as a commentary on performance. I use it to mean a thin knife--thin in total not just BTE.


But my problem is that if you don't use anything but spine thickness the 'category' will essentially encompass half of the market, including low-end stamped blades from your average department store, IKEA, etc. every monosteel western-handled Japanese knife, and eventually also every 'traditional' laser like the Suisin, Tad, Ashi.
Especially if you go all the way up to 3mm. And a lot of these knives wouldn't necessarily cut in a way that people would really describe as 'laser-ish'.

Blades like Yoshikane are IMO deceptive in their measurements since yes, they have more ass above the heel, but they lose a lot of that thickness really fast. They'd probably fall into the category as well after just a few centimeters.

It just becomes an incredibly hollow and useless concept if you make the definition so wide.



MowgFace said:


> I am with @McMan, to me the category Laser has always been the same. <2.5mm spine, AND thin at the edge. Usually monosteel (back in the day)
> 
> You can always argue other knives cut better, but to me the term "laser" never signified it was the best performer or moved through food "the best." Just that it moved through food like a laser. People used to argue Takayuki Grand Cheff was a laser on paper, but due to its thickness behind the edge, was excluded. Some Takeda are thin enough at the spine, but were always excluded because ALL Takeda's split veggies like logs.
> 
> As we mentioned, for a long time Tadatsuna, Ginga, Konosuke were the "lasers." Never considered them the BEST performers, just performed like lasers.


If anything you're agreeing with me? You're adding at least some requirement for thinness behind the edge and performance. Don't get me wrong I'm fine with excluding knives that are thicker on the spine, I just don't think that a thin spine alone is enough.


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## Jovidah (Oct 23, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Agree. There could be good lasers there could be bad lasers. They don’t have to perform well.


But if a knife wedges like hell how much sense does it make to call it a laser? That makes as much sense as having a delicate workhorse.


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## Ruso (Oct 23, 2021)

> But my problem is that if you don't use anything but spine thickness the 'category' will essentially encompass half of the market, including low-end stamped blades from your average department store, IKEA,



What is the problem with that? Laser does not mean a good knife or made from a decent steel or being forged.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Oct 23, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> But if a knife wedges like hell how much sense does it make to call it a laser? That makes as much sense as having a delicate workhorse.


I got your point, but if we just look at bte thickness, maybe Toyama and Kato could also be called lasers. And mid-weight like Yoshikane and Konosuke Fujiyama are definitely lasers. It’s also very confusing I think. And it makes workhorse a bad word.


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## Jovidah (Oct 23, 2021)

Ruso said:


> What is the problem with that? Laser does not mean a good knife or made from a decent steel or being forged.


But the very name itself suggests a knife that goes through product with very little resistance. If you have a laser that wedges it doesn't make any sense. 
I didn't say anything about the last part; for the actual cutting performance / experience it's largely irrelevant anyway.



Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I got your point, but if we just look at bte thickness, maybe Toyama and Kato could also be called lasers. And mid-weight like Yoshikane and Konosuke Fujiyama are definitely lasers. It’s also very confusing I think. And it makes workhorse a bad word.


I'm not saying we should _only _look at BTE thickness, I get that. But I think you need to consider a combination of both; spine thickness and thickness behind the edge. Because the very name implies that it should at least be something that goes through product with very little resistance. How can you call something a laser when it doesn't?


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Oct 23, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> But the very name itself suggests a knife that goes through product with very little resistance. If you have a laser that wedges it doesn't make any sense.
> I didn't say anything about the last part; for the actual cutting performance / experience it's largely irrelevant anyway.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying we should _only _look at BTE thickness, I get that. But I think you need to consider a combination of both; spine thickness and thickness behind the edge. Because the very name implies that it should at least be something that goes through product with very little resistance. How can you call something a laser when it doesn't?


I think CKTG explained it that they use the “laser” word because the knives are laser cut into shape?


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## Jovidah (Oct 23, 2021)

By that definition even Wüsthof axes would be considered a laser... I don't think the production method is a very informative way to describe knives.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Oct 23, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> By that definition even Wüsthof axes would be considered a laser... I don't think the production method is a very informative way to describe knives.


My definition is thin and light (<2.5mm and < 125 gram without handle for a 240), and wusthof won’t be light. If by any chance they become thin and light I think they can be called lasers.


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## Ruso (Oct 23, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> But the very name itself suggests a knife that goes through product with very little resistance. If you have a laser that wedges it doesn't make any sense.



I believe a phrase “cut like a laser” and “laser knife” should not be put into same basket.
The first talks about a knife performance. A thick knife with great geometry can cut like a laser.
The second is a category/type of a knife. Laser knife can cut like an ox.
My 2p.


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## JaVa (Oct 24, 2021)

There are no set categories and everyone will have their opinion. Since there's no real rules, everyone is right, I guess?

Still, having said that,
cuts like a laser and thin as a laser are two different things.

If a knife is very thin, it's a laser, but even if it's not it can still cut like one.
Well anyway, that's how I see it.

edit. Ruso just beat me to it.


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## chefwp (Dec 7, 2021)

zacho said:


> View attachment 147536
> 
> My Hitohira Futana SB Migaki Gyuto 210mm.
> 
> Is this a laser? It's my first proper knife and have no clue what constitutes a laser.


What do you think of this knife, would you recommend it to someone looking for an inexpensive gyuto in those dimensions? My experience with Hitohira is good, but completely different line/steel/etc...


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## paulraphael (Dec 10, 2021)

deanb said:


> Suisin Inox Honyaki. I have 270mm gyuto and an 8” petty and are both lasers.



I believe this was this was the original one ... at least the first that caught people's attention in the the forums. It got popular in a hurry ... and then the price went way up. 

Then someone discovered the Tadatsuna, which has the same geometry and equivalent steel ( available at the time directly from the company's storefront in Japan, which was run by a very nice man named Hideki). The Tads cost about the same as the Suisins before the price hike, so they became the next big thing. 

Then Hideki closed shop, Tads got more expensive and harder to find, and many other makers jumped on the bandwagon with similar but reasonably priced versions. Somewhere in there people started calling them lasers.

A chef friend of mine in California was basically modding his knives into lasers before all this. Just grinding them down to practically nothing. DMT diamond plates and hours of dumb work. When he discovered the Suisin, he was in heaven.


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## ikarus (Dec 12, 2021)

I have a Ashi Gyuto and I really like it. Unfortunatly I had to import it from Switzerland.


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