# A different kind of diamond stone... feeler



## JBroida

So, its late and i'm at work sharpening knives... i needed a break from sharpening, and i stated thinking about this. I ordered a few of these a while ago, hoping to sell them at some point. I've also talked about them from time to time on the forums. There are a few things that have been holding me back from selling them- price point (they are expensive... really expensive), mounting (they are not mounted to anything, but need to be before they can be used), free time (i have none).

Anyways, i've been using this stone all night (and quite frankly, its probably my most used stone since early 2012) and thought since i only have a few, there might be a couple people out there interested in trying these out and ok with mounting it themselves (its pretty easy... i've dont it twice now).

So here's the deal... these stones are 200mm x 75mm x 3mm (yup... 3mm... hence the need for mounting on something larger). They are 800 grit diamond stones. But unlike the other diamond stones i have, these are make more like traditional stones. They are porous, need to be soaked (they soak in seconds due to their thinness), feel like a very grippy ceramic stone, are the fastest cutting stones i've ever used (keeping grit range in mind), dish EXTREMELY slowly (i've worn through 2 of the other kind of diamond plates before i wore through one of these), and are just a joy to use. Whenever people try mine in the store, they always say its the best stone they've ever used by far.

I use this stone after my wheel (which leaves very deep 150 grit scratches), but have easily used it after stones as coarse as 80 grit. It can easily clean up scratches from those stones, and prepares your knife for a finishing stone. I tend to follow this one up with a 6k stone (either a gesshin 6k, 6k s, or one of the many other stones i have around here).

Essentially, i use it in place of a ~400 grit stone and ~1000 grit stone, as it does the work of both. I dont use it to thin (and i will explain why in a bit), but i do use it to clean up scratches after thinning. However, i use it for repairs and to speed up sharpening a lot. It works well on both single bevel and double bevel knives (with a very important exception, which i will get into in a second).

So, the one thing i have trouble with on this is that it tends to tear at soft stainless cladding (on both single and double bevel knives. That is not to say you cant use it on them, but its crazy aggressive, and the tactile feedback is significant enough that i feel pretty serious drag over the stone when soft stainless cladding is involved. Soft carbon cladding hasnt been a problem at all, but when i first started using this one, i used too much pressure when cleaning up scratches after thinning a stainless clad vg-10 blade, and the stone ripped a few very small chunks out of the cladding. Like i said, it's aggressive.

Anyways, I have 3 of them, and the run $400 each. Any interest? I'll try to post some pictures soon (both of an unused one and my well used ones).


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## JBroida

pictures as promised... the left one is mine that is currently in use and mounted on an aluminum base. The right one is the unmounted stone.


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## Ruso

Do you need/can to flatten it over time?


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## mark76

Jon, I understand it is very different from a diamond plate. So it will give you feedback and operate more like a whetstone.

However, what is it like in terms of cutting performance when compared to e.g. and Atoma plate of a similar grit size?


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## JBroida

Ruso said:


> Do you need/can to flatten it over time?



you can flatten it, though it is a very slow process. Its also one case where the synthetic flattening stones work better than diamond plates. It does need flattening, but not often. You can see minor dishing on mine, but its been used for 1000+ knives (and often for the brunt of the work).


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## JBroida

mark76 said:


> Jon, I understand it is very different from a diamond plate. So it will give you feedback and operate more like a whetstone.
> 
> However, what is it like in terms of cutting performance when compared to e.g. and Atoma plate of a similar grit size?



This stone is as fast (if not slightly faster than depending on the steel) my gesshin 400. I havent used an atoma in this grit range in quite a long time to be honest.


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## JBroida

in doing a lot of sharpening again tonight, this stone, as always did the bulk of the work. I think if i ever sell them, they will be called the Gesshin "Most Badass Stone Ever" 800 grit. Took out high and low spots and 150 grit scratches faster than my 400 stones and nearly as fast as my 220, but doesnt dish as fast as either (in fact, really slow dishing period). I can go from 150 grit to this stone, and finish on a 6k so fast its stupid. Just wanted to throw it out there.


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## Marcelo Amaral

Hi Jon, i would be interested. By the way, i've got your set (1k/6k) yesterday without any problems. Can't wait to try it!


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## cheflivengood

Is this different than your diamond 500 grit most awesome stone ever?


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## JBroida

yeah... better... i stopped using that 500 stone a while back when this one took over as my go to stone


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## cheflivengood

you do layaway ?????????????:tease:


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## JBroida

i totally should for stuff like this


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## cheflarge

JB & JKI rule the earth!!! Don't know if I have ever had a more pleasureable buying experience, EVER!


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## JBroida

@cheflarge thanks so much

@everyone else... only 2 left


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## cheflarge

It must STINK in here....... because Jon, you are the shat, my friend!!! :thumbsup:


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## JBroida

Here's a video of this stone in action:
[video=youtube;8pLZ1rrk-DE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pLZ1rrk-DE[/video]


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## gic

How does it compare to the 1000 grit diamond??


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## kdeleon

This seems like a stone that I've been looking for. But for that price, I would expect it to be mounted. I don't have blocks or the ability to machine something that would make a nice mount for this stone. Maybe consider that as an option as I bet others are in the same boat. That is the only thing holding me back.


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## JBroida

gic said:


> How does it compare to the 1000 grit diamond??



it is noticeably faster, slower wearing, and feels more like a normal stone


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## JBroida

kdeleon said:


> This seems like a stone that I've been looking for. But for that price, I would expect it to be mounted. I don't have blocks or the ability to machine something that would make a nice mount for this stone. Maybe consider that as an option as I bet others are in the same boat. That is the only thing holding me back.



the first ones i ordered (for myself for testing) were indeed mounted. Having them unmounted is the only thing that allowed me to get the price as low as it is. I had originally intended to mount them here, but we had a couple of customers who wanted them unmounted, and, quite frankly, i dont really have the time to mount tons of stones, so i figured i'd pass the savings along instead of increasing the cost of the stone to include mounting (which would include the cost of the mounting material and my time). Hope this makes sense. For what its worth, the first one of these i ever had made cost me $600.


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## kdeleon

JBroida said:


> the first ones i ordered (for myself for testing) were indeed mounted. Having them unmounted is the only thing that allowed me to get the price as low as it is. I had originally intended to mount them here, but we had a couple of customers who wanted them unmounted, and, quite frankly, i dont really have the time to mount tons of stones, so i figured i'd pass the savings along instead of increasing the cost of the stone to include mounting (which would include the cost of the mounting material and my time). Hope this makes sense. For what its worth, the first one of these i ever had made cost me $600.



I completely understand. But message me if you change your mind, as I would purchase a mounted version. It seems like a fast stone and doesn't have that nasty sound of a normal diamond stone.


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## JBroida

kdeleon said:


> I completely understand. But message me if you change your mind, as I would purchase a mounted version. It seems like a fast stone and doesn't have that nasty sound of a normal diamond stone.



honestly, more than anything right now, i just dont have the time. I wish i did, but i really dont. Sorry.


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## ptolemy

kdeleon said:


> I completely understand. But message me if you change your mind, as I would purchase a mounted version. It seems like a fast stone and doesn't have that nasty sound of a normal diamond stone.



I am sure someone here is able to reliably mount it. This is where the community shines. 

I would be in the same oat if I was looking for it. I wouldn't trust myself to mount it either.


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## JBroida

ptolemy said:


> I am sure someone here is able to reliably mount it. This is where the community shines.
> 
> I would be in the same oat if I was looking for it. I wouldn't trust myself to mount it either.



there is actually someone online who already offered to do that, as they would be doing it for themselves anyways and are already set up to be able to do it easily.


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## ptolemy

JBroida said:


> there is actually someone online who already offered to do that, as they would be doing it for themselves anyways and are already set up to be able to do it easily.



awesome 

I watched the video and damn it's fast!!


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## kdeleon

JBroida said:


> there is actually someone online who already offered to do that, as they would be doing it for themselves anyways and are already set up to be able to do it easily.



Is this person on the forum and willing to offer this service? If so, can you please message me? Or did they want to go through you, Jon and you might consider taking them up on this offer? Just wanting to see if this is a possibility. As I said, I'm interested but also don't have the time or resources to find a mounting block and get it glued on properly.


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## JBroida

just PM-ed him to see if he is interested and has time. We can continue when i hear back from him.


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## JBroida

kdeleon said:


> Is this person on the forum and willing to offer this service? If so, can you please message me? Or did they want to go through you, Jon and you might consider taking them up on this offer? Just wanting to see if this is a possibility. As I said, I'm interested but also don't have the time or resources to find a mounting block and get it glued on properly.



Ok... got this all figured out... see your PM's

Also, if anyone else is interested, please let me know.


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## Matus

It sounds like this 800 grit diamond stone together with the 6000 one would be all one needs at home. Once I wear out all of my stones I will give you a call


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## JBroida

BUMP... these are the vitrified diamond stones i was talking about... i have a few of them in stock and mounted on glass bases... we're trying to get pictures done this week or next week and get them up for sale.


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## nianton

Is the 300a diamond stone you have on your site one of these stones?


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## JBroida

nianton said:


> Is the 300a diamond stone you have on your site one of these stones?



Different one... See the first post for the most info about these


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## berko

cant wait to see the pictures.


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## JBroida

They are finally up here on the website... this is the product description:
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...nes/products/800-grit-vitrified-diamond-stone

The Gesshin 800 grit vitrified Diamond stone is the most used stone in my personal collection. Since starting to use these a few years ago, they quickly became my favorite. I believe that most professional sharpeners are always on a quest for the best coarse stone they can find, but its always hard to find the perfect coarse stone. This one comes as close as any I have tried. While its not as fast as our Gesshin 220, it is as fast cutting as many 320-400 grit stones. However, being 800 grit, it fits within the medium grit range (naka toishi). The scratches it leaves are not as deep as those from the coarser stones I would normally start with. This allows me to jump directly from this stone to my finishing stones, cutting my sharpening time drastically. For example, a common 2 stone setup in our workshop might include this 800 grit stone and any one of our 3000-8000 grit stones (most often, it ends up being on of our 6000 grit stones). 

Unlike other diamond stones found commonly in the market, this stone acts more like the traditional soaking stones many are used to. It is porous and actually soaks in water, while providing a more traditional whetstone feel. Because it is extremely thin, it soaks rather quickly (in just a few seconds), so despite not being technically splash-and-go, it is probably the closest one can get.

As you can see in the picture, the stone is mounted on a glass plate. The stone itself is only about 3mm thick. However, the stone is extremely slow wearing, and does not need flattening often. In fact, the stone is so wear resistant that I haven't been able to find an effective means for flattening the stone, which means that one must be good enough at sharpening to use the stone surface evenly while sharpening, as that is the most effective way of keeping the stone flat. Also, this stone is particularly aggressive on soft stainless cladding, and may leave deeper scratches when cutting on soft stainless cladding.

All in all, this is probably my favorite stone of all of the ones i own.


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## Matus

Edit. Thanks Matus


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

If you are willing to tell: What/whom are they made for/marketed to originally - professional tool and die makers?


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## JBroida

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> If you are willing to tell: What/whom are they made for/marketed to originally - professional tool and die makers?



they dont normally make sharpening stones like what we have... rather they make larger grinding wheels for large scale manufacturing (i.e. automotive, aerospace, etc.)


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## Matus

I am just wondering loud here - I guess a large grinding wheel made of the same/similar material would cost a fortune, but would it be more cost effective than a 2x72" belt grinder for sharpening or stock removal?


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

So you had them made by an abrasive maker for the express purpose of knife/tool sharpening... I suspected they were a common (albeit costly) product from some industrial sector that is new only to the knife enthusiast community...


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## JBroida

Matus said:


> I am just wondering loud here - I guess a large grinding wheel made of the same/similar material would cost a fortune, but would it be more cost effective than a 2x72" belt grinder for sharpening or stock removal?



Probably not more functional to be honest


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## swarth

@JBroida will these be coming back?


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## JBroida

yeah... i have them on order... would never even imagine living without these, so i will always have some in or on order


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## Pensacola Tiger

I have one and it is everything Jon says. I find it invaluable for setting a new bevel in a couple of passes. I find I can effectively jump to a polisher like a suita or kilta without an intermediary stone. I haven't found a steel it can't easily handle including the high hardness PM steels.

I don't' sharpen more that a couple of knives at a time, so it's a luxury for me, but if you have a lot of blades to sharpen, I'd say it's almost a necessity.


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## swarth

I'm sold. Waiting )


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## swarth

Got mine. Thank you!


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## tk59

Hmm... Maybe I need one of these, too... Or two so I can use one to flatten the other, lol...


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## tk59

@JBroida do you remember the 500 grit diamond plate I picked up from you shortly before y'all moved to Beverly Hills? Can you offer a comparison of their relative cutting and wear rates? Thanks!


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## JBroida

tk59 said:


> @JBroida do you remember the 500 grit diamond plate I picked up from you shortly before y'all moved to Beverly Hills? Can you offer a comparison of their relative cutting and wear rates? Thanks!



Very different stones... come up one day and check them out side by side if you want

The 800 cuts faster, is slower wearing, and more grippy, but there are cases where the 500 works better


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## nakneker

Mine arrived a couple days ago, the first couple of sessions were an eye opener. It’s gonna get used, a lot!


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## Nomo4me

How does this compare to the diamond/resin 1k/6k stones you sell?


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## JBroida

It’s a very different stone... more like a regular ceramic stone, but faster and slower dishing... not perfect for everything, but for the things is is good for, it’s amazing... by far my most used stone


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## Nomo4me

Interesting. I have the 1k & 6k and for the very rare opportunities I have to sharpen I enjoy them. 
Is this vitrified stone finished both sides? If one were to secure it to a plate so that it could be removed and flipped when it eventually dishes...……….


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## Illyria

Back in stock.

Grabbed mine. Can't wait to try it out.


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## Nomo4me

Left it in the cart overnight. Thank you *whom ever* for saving my wallet.


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## inferno

now illyria will have your stone nomo. how do you feel about that?


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## Nomo4me

Sometimes exercising self restraint is quite nom nom nom


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## Illyria

Nomo4me said:


> Sometimes exercising self restraint is quite nom nom nom



Haha, and then I'm on the opposite side of things. Ordered it during the dinner rush yesterday.


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## Illyria

The stone is absolutely spectacular.

The tactile feedback is great and it cuts quick, even on my 63-64hrc blades.

Can immediately jump straight to my synthetic natural.


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## Nomo4me

Jon when will you have more of these?


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## JBroida

we're working on mounting a few more as soon as we can make some time... its been quite busy lately


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## Nomo4me

I'd prefer one unmounted as I have an idea


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## JBroida

Nomo4me said:


> I'd prefer one unmounted as I have an idea



i dont see what that would be an issue... just e-mail me and we can make that happen.

-Jon


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