# How to Sharpen a Victorinox Santoku ?



## ayumi_ishida (Apr 29, 2020)

Aloha , 

I'm in "lockdown" and need to sharpen my Victorinox Santoku . I have no experience .
Do I get a whetstone , or some other method ?


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## Michi (Apr 29, 2020)

A stone is the way to go. Here is a good video for beginning sharpeners:


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## ayumi_ishida (Apr 29, 2020)

Thanks .
is that the stone you like for the Victorinox Santoku ; King 1000/6000 ?
Do you also like a honing rod ? 
I'd like to learn sharpening but am thinking of a manual sharpener for a quick fix .
Chef'sChoice 463 
https://chefschoice.com/products/chefschoice®-pronto®-diamond-hone®-for-santoku-15-knives-model-463


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Apr 29, 2020)

Right now, here, I'd suggest the Cerax 1000 full size stone because it can be had for cheap and works well. Most ~1000 grit stones would work for your task and differ mostly in their feel. As a beginner you don't really have a preference yet.

Jon, @JKI, 1000/6000 combo stone with his diamond flattening plate would be my deluxe option. Also, his sharpening playlist if the gold standard if you decide to go beyond the beginner basics in Michi's link.)

ETA: one stone, Michi's video and you may not get the best possible edge, but you'll do as well as the best mechanical sharpeners I've seen after only a couple tries.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 30, 2020)

Yeah, I would recommend getting a stone in the #1000 range (and a stone holder) and start practicing the technique. Take a look at the stones available where you live. If you’re uncertain about the brands, just ask here! Best of luck!


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## ayumi_ishida (Apr 30, 2020)

Since I'm in lockdown , it's actually easier to order online .
And Since I have an entry level knife , the Victorinox Santoku , and I have no experience sharpening , guess it makes sense to get an entry level stone .
King 1000 ?


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## Michi (Apr 30, 2020)

All the other suggestions are good, too. The Cerax 1000 is a fine stone (I have one myself), and the JKI 1000/6000 stone also has an excellent reputation. (I have not used the JKI one myself.)

For German/French/Swiss knives, which are made of fairly soft stainless steel, a honing rod is fine for maintenance, but it can't actually sharpen a knife. All a honing rod does is bring a knife that started out sharp and dulled a little bit back to sharpness. But only for a while. Eventually, you will have to re-sharpen the knife with a stone. So, a honing rod is good for a quick touch-up and helps to keep a knife sharp, but only if the knife started out sharp to begin with, and you don't let it get too dull.

For Japanese knives, which are made from much harder steels, a honing rod is likely to either do nothing, or to actually damage the edge. Some _ceramic_ honing rods are OK with Japanese knives, but not all that many people bother with them. And, if you want a _really_ sharp knife, a stone or two are the way to go.


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## M1k3 (Apr 30, 2020)

I have the King 1k/6k combo. That 1k stone will be fine. You could splurge on the combo, but, it's not necessary. Especially for the Victorinox. But, it could be nice in the future if you get something with harder/"nicer" steel. Or a separate stone altogether.

I'd definitely get a stone holder with your stone. A lapping plate also, but, not necessary immediately.


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## Michi (Apr 30, 2020)

ayumi_ishida said:


> And Since I have an entry level knife , the Victorinox Santoku , and I have no experience sharpening , guess it makes sense to get an entry level stone .
> King 1000 ?


King KDS 1000/6000 is almost identical in price, so you could take that, at least if you are planning to get some more fancy knives later. (Don't confuse the King KDS with the King KW65. They look almost identical, but the KW65 is smaller.)

Otherwise, the King 1000-grit stone is a good stone, too. And it is totally fine for soft-steel knives. (A 6000 stone with the Victorinox will require good sharpening technique; without that, chances are that the 6000 side will make the knife cut worse.)

Edit: Almost identical advice from @M1k3 and me


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## kayman67 (Apr 30, 2020)

I have the same advice as always. If you desire to learn sharpening with this kind of stones, get a softer King 1000 (or the KDS one, it's the same as far as experience goes) and it can help you learn a lot (much more than some other stones). 

But if you don't, just get a cheap enough 400/1000 diamond plate. Should be 20-30$ and will give you the most practical edge with very little effort. 

Using stones is great and develops even into some kind of therapy for most of us, but it might not be what everyone needs.


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## Uncle Mike (May 3, 2020)

If you want a lot of information, check out Murray Carter’s sharpening video.

He emphasized technique and says you should use King 1000 and 5000 stones, which are pretty inexpensive. You could probably just use the 1000 for the Victorinox.


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## ayumi_ishida (May 3, 2020)

Thanks , great ; that should do it .


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## Benuser (May 3, 2020)

I've sharpened quite some brand new Victorinox Fibrox chef's. It's the same Krupp's 4116 Zwilling and Wüsthof use, but because of a different Heat Treatment it feels coarsely grained. 
I use a Chosera 400 (JIS600) to make the factory geometry more acceptable by eliminating the pronounced shoulders. Deburring with a green scotch pad. No further refinement. 
I don't know whether the OP's Santoku has dimples and what are its consequences.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 6, 2020)

Sharpened plenty Vic's find them easier than Wusthof.


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## Bobby2shots (May 18, 2020)

I bought my first Vic (6" petty)18 months ago, in November 2018, and it has yet to require sharpening on stones,,,,just a very light touch-up with a steel or ceramic honing rod. It's my most often used knife and definitely the easiest knife to keep sharp that I've ever owned. I liked it so much that I bought a bunch of sets ranging from 3.5" parings to 10" Chefs and carving knives for my spouse, and both of her daughters, as well as a bunch more Vic's for myself. (Rosewood handles). I also own quite a few (20 or so) Wusthof Classics and IKON's as well as Zwilling Pro, Pro "S", Shun, MAC, and Miyabi.

Regarding sharpeners, I've got pretty well anything I could ever want, including a Tormek 10" wet-wheel grinder,, Chef's Choice elecrtric sharpener,,, 4-stone sets (400/1000/4000/8000) from Norton,,, similar 4-stone Shapton Glass set w/ lapping plate,,, King oil-stone,,Naniwa Aotoshi Green Brick of Joy,,,,, and the only item I've yet needed on my Vic 6" is either my Idahone 10" ceramic honing rod, and lately, my Zwilling butcher steel. A few light passes is generally all I ever need, and I can cut see-through tomato slices with ease.

Now, I'm generalizing here,,, but I tend to use the electric sharpeners only on damaged edges,,, mostly for friends who bring me "no-name thrift-store finds" that cost as little as $0.50. a piece.

If you feel you "must" sharpen on a stone, I would heartily recommend that you check out some of Peter Nowlans' superb videos. To me,,, effective sharpening is all about "a gentle touch",,, and Peter really stresses just how much pressure you need when sharpening on stones.

Here's a link to one of his videos, and you should easily find additional videos that Peter has produced.



Lastly, don't underestimate your Vic,,, I love mine. Trouble-free,,,chip-free,,,easy to maintain, warm in the hand (Rosewood handles),


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## ModRQC (May 18, 2020)

Vic Santoku is a little beast of its own right. Thinning as Benuser suggests helps when you get to sharpening for real - but the Victo Santoku specifically is a very thin knife with lesser shoulders than thicker Victorinox, and if you never honed it before, and it has not been used for so long yet, you may find joy in a regular smooth steel rod. Not gonna sharpen as others have warned, but used correctly on an edge that is just dulled a bit for this knife makes wonder for one good prep. Rinse and repeat each prep and you may find yourself out of the need of a stone for another while. Not a bad tool to have under hand neither for lots of cutters in your kitchen that are made of soft SS and need a bit of redressing.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 18, 2020)

Before discovered Japanese carbon steel used Forschners at time most used knife Hotels in Hawaii. Sharpened on large King 1K stone. Even then would go spine close to the stone to get thinner edges on regular 10" chef knife.

Could get them sharp, but doing lots of cutting would lose edge so lots of sharpening. Back then a 10" rosewood handle was 11.00 so would use backups before getting to stones again. Used steels too. 

Japanese carbons were a game changer. Easy to sharpen and touchup important in a busy kitchen.


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## Helmore (May 19, 2020)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Before discovered Japanese carbon steel used Forschners at time most used knife Hotels in Hawaii.


Could you rephrase this? I have a hard time grasping what you're trying to say here...


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## toddnmd (May 19, 2020)

Helmore said:


> Could you rephrase this? I have a hard time grasping what you're trying to say here...


I'll try: "I used to use Forschners. They were the most used knives at the time when I worked at hotel kitchens in Hawaii. Later, I discovered Japanese carbon steel knives, and moved on from Forschner." Implied meaning: Forschners are a solid choice for beginners and/or those on a tight budget.


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## ayumi_ishida (May 19, 2020)

I have a King 1000 arriving .
Still interested in trying a Nakiri : So , Victorinox Nakiri ?
I'm leaning toward MAC JU-65 .
I decided I want Stainless Steel and can budget up to $170 .


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## Helmore (May 19, 2020)

For that money, wouldn't you be better off getting a MAC MJU-65? Also of interest (not in stock right now, unfortunately): Gesshin Uraku 165mm SKD Nakiri 

P.S. I think I'm going off topic now though...


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## ModRQC (May 19, 2020)

ayumi_ishida said:


> I have a King 1000 arriving .
> Still interested in trying a Nakiri : So , Victorinox Nakiri ?
> I'm leaning toward MAC JU-65 .
> I decided I want Stainless Steel and can budget up to $170 .



The Mac could be nice. Also of interest should be the Zwilling Diplôme/Miyabi, harder and better steel yet. Under 200$ you won't find much else towards harder stainless, and I don't know where you have access to buy this, but I'd take a good look around still.

You pretty much have the Victorinox Nakiri already with the Santoku - Victorinox Santoku is quite square and flat. Don't think you'd see much difference. The Zwilling or Mac wouldn't make much difference neither - not tall enough. Your Santoku is 46mm high, if you want to see a difference in use, look for something along the 55mm tall lines.


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## ayumi_ishida (May 22, 2020)

So I received my King Home Stone K-45 and used it last night .
Do I need to completely dry it before re-use ?
The following is from the Korin website and looking for clarification . Thanks .

Knife Sharpening Guide: A How-to | KORIN

"Stones can be fragile and should never be over-soaked. Over-soaking will decrease the stone’s quality and make sharpening more difficult. After sharpening, wipe clean and allow to air dry. It is preferable to store stones in a dry towel."


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## demirtasem (Jun 3, 2020)

Michi said:


> King KDS 1000/6000 is almost identical in price, so you could take that, at least if you are planning to get some more fancy knives later. (Don't confuse the King KDS with the King KW65. They look almost identical, but the KW65 is smaller.)
> 
> Otherwise, the King 1000-grit stone is a good stone, too. And it is totally fine for soft-steel knives. (A 6000 stone with the Victorinox will require good sharpening technique; without that, chances are that the 6000 side will make the knife cut worse.)
> 
> Edit: Almost identical advice from @M1k3 and me




As a beginner I have a question. What happens if I go like 800+3k+Strop on Victorinox or same kind of knives instead of only 1k stone? Can somebody explain it to me?


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## ModRQC (Jun 3, 2020)

For paraphrasing someone who knows better than me: because the refined edge won’t hold, since the matrix is weakened behind the edge. I think it has to do with big carbides vs fine abrasive but don’t quote me.


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## Benuser (Jun 4, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> For paraphrasing someone who knows better than me: because the refined edge won’t hold, since the matrix is weakened behind the edge. I think it has to do with big carbides vs fine abrasive but don’t quote me.


Not behind the edge, at the edge. 
The fine stone leaves the carbides intact, only weakens the already weak matrix around it a bit more. Leads to poor edge stability.


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## ModRQC (Jun 4, 2020)

He on the other hand had the right to quote me since he’s the original word to my paraphrasing.


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## ModRQC (Jun 4, 2020)

ayumi_ishida said:


> So I received my King Home Stone K-45 and used it last night .
> Do I need to completely dry it before re-use ?
> The following is from the Korin website and looking for clarification . Thanks .
> 
> ...



Make sure it's rinsed and properly dry when you're done with it, before storing it away. If you need to use it again before it's completely dry, just follow the normal soaking procedure as if it was dry.


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## Bobby2shots (Jun 5, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> As a beginner I have a question. What happens if I go like 800+3k+Strop on Victorinox or same kind of knives instead of only 1k stone? Can somebody explain it to me?



demirtasem,

Your question is too general to answer effectively. The "theoretical answer" is easy,,,,, but it would be far better to know precisely what you want to achieve,,, and that starts with knowing precisely what's "wrong" with your knife's present status,,,for example; is your knife almost brand new, and not cutting quite as well as it originally was? or,,,, are we talking about a knife that's been honed many times, and despite the re-honing, the knife still does not cut well? or,,,, is there visible deterioration of the cutting edge? Any one of those scenarios requires a different approach, and keeping it simple, or minimalistic,,,, is always best in my opinion. The last thing you want (or need), is to remove more metal than the situation calls for. If you "must" sharpen, then do so, but it should be considered as a last resort.

The "progression" that you mentioned (800/3k/strop), is fine,,,, but you can also get by with a concrete patio block,,,,,,.if you had to. It all boils down to how much time you're willing to spend at each stage of sharpening process to achieve the results you're looking for. Knowing how much, (or how litlle) pressure you need to apply through the various stages, is probably as important, if not more important, than the grit of abrasive you choose. You also want to think of what type of edge would best suit your needs,,, for example,,, you wouldn't want to sharpen an edge that's used primarily for chopping, in the same manner as an edge that's used primarily for slicing/carving.

Getting back to your 800/3k/strop suggestion,,,, the 800 stone might be fine as a starting point if there is very little if any visible damage to the cutting edge. A good 400 grit stone might be a better (and quicker) choice for rebuilding a visibly damaged edge. Starting on an 800 grit stone might be fine if the blade looks fine (little or no visible damage), but can't be brought back to "like-new" condition with a proper honing/feathering.


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## demirtasem (Jun 5, 2020)

Wow... Thank you so much for your answer. 

Sorry for my general questions but as far as I deep dive in the threads, I see how 'dull' I am and need to sharpen for specific questions.  I wish there will be a book for dummies like me to tell sharpening basics 101 according to our needs. 




Bobby2shots said:


> are we talking about a knife that's been honed many times, and despite the re-honing, the knife still does not cut well? or,,,, is there visible deterioration of the cutting edge?



My problems occur mostly those two problems that you mentioned. 



Bobby2shots said:


> You also want to think of what type of edge would best suit your needs,,, for example,,, you wouldn't want to sharpen an edge that's used primarily for chopping, in the same manner as an edge that's used primarily for slicing/carving.



Well, I can call my self mostly slicer and rocker. But I don't know the way I need to sharpen the edge according to those information.


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## Bobby2shots (Jun 5, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> Wow... Thank you so much for your answer.
> 
> Sorry for my general questions but as far as I deep dive in the threads, I see how 'dull' I am and need to sharpen for specific questions.  I wish there will be a book for dummies like me to tell sharpening basics 101 according to our needs.
> 
> ...




Now, I don't know what knife you have, nor the type of knife, but I'll presume it's a Victorinox santoku, since that's what this thread started out as. If you're talking about a chef's knife, the only thing that would change essentially, is your sharpening angle,,,, You'd want roughly 15 degrees on each side of the bevel for most Vic knives, and between 10-12 degrees on a santoku. That specific angle is irrelevent really, it's a matter of what works best for YOU, and your specific needs. The steeper the bevel, the sharper you'll be, but the trade-off will be how long you go between sharpenings.

I'm not going to get into a long-winded discussion on proper sharpening techniques here, but I'm going to give you two video links that should be quite helpful. This first link is a very short video by a Victorinox rep, sharpening a Vic chef's knife. I want you to pay particular attention to "feathering" an edge. He also mentions the 15 degree sharpening angle.









Victorinox : Knife Sharpening Video


Need help sharpening and honing your knife blades? Watch this video to learn a few steps and techniques that will get your blades back to cutting like new!




www.webstaurantstore.com





This second video is by Peter knowlan, and is probably one of the best and most thoroughly explained approaches into sharpening for beginners. Pay particular attention to Peter's guidance on how much (or how little) pressure is required. Peter has a complete series of sharpening videos, so you'll probably want to check those out. I believe they're posted on Youtube and KnifePlanet.com


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## demirtasem (Jun 5, 2020)

Bobby2shots said:


> Now, I don't know what knife you have, nor the type of knife, but I'll presume it's a Victorinox santoku, since that's what this thread started out as. If you're talking about a chef's knife, the only thing that would change essentially, is your sharpening angle,,,, You'd want roughly 15 degrees on each side of the bevel for most Vic knives, and between 10-12 degrees on a santoku. That specific angle is irrelevent really, it's a matter of what works best for YOU, and your specific needs. The steeper the bevel, the sharper you'll be, but the trade-off will be how long you go between sharpenings.
> 
> I'm not going to get into a long-winded discussion on proper sharpening techniques here, but I'm going to give you two video links that should be quite helpful. This first link is a very short video by a Victorinox rep, sharpening a Vic chef's knife. I want you to pay particular attention to "feathering" an edge. He also mentions the 15 degree sharpening angle.
> 
> ...





Bobby Thank you so much for your comprehensive message. I wasn't expect that I can say.  Right know I'm using Kramer Carbon and Masamoto KS. Also got my Misono UX10 recently.

I'm also trying to learn sharpening but I'm beginner at this. I'm also sharpening my couple friend's Wusthof, Zwilling and Victorinox. I think I got the angles and general sharpening on 50/50 edge. I mean I hope so  But I have a way to go on 50/50, 70/30 bevels sharpening and differentiating which stone needs to be used on which knife.

I'm using Chosera 800+3k+leather strop on my Kramer and Masamoto. But I wasn't sure that I need to use 3k or a strop on Wusthof, Zwilling or Victorinox. Thanks again for your answer. I was also thinking about buying a Cerax 320. Do you have any thoughts on that?

On the other hand, thank you for the video suggestions. I definitely watch them and make sure I do things as it should be.


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## Bobby2shots (Jun 6, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> Bobby Thank you so much for your comprehensive message. I wasn't expect that I can say.  Right know I'm using Kramer Carbon and Masamoto KS. Also got my Misono UX10 recently.



Verrrry Nice collection Demirtasem. Regarding the Cerax stone, I've not tried it. My stones are Atoma diamond plates (400/1200), Naniwa large flattening stone 220, Naniwa Aotoshi Green Brick of Joy (2k), Norton waterstone 4 stone set (220/1k/4k/8k), Shapton Glass 4 stone set (320/1k/4k/8k and Shapton DGLP. I also have a 10" Tormek wet-wheel grinder. (Tormek SG-2000) I also have a King combo oil-stone which I use in my woodworking shop. I also have strops and 3M micro-abrasive sheets from Lee Valley Tools.

Regarding sharpening a 70/30 asymetric blade, just remember to have the apex of the blade coming into contact with your stone.


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## demirtasem (Jun 6, 2020)

Bobby2shots said:


> Verrrry Nice collection Demirtasem. Regarding the Cerax stone, I've not tried it. My stones are Atoma diamond plates (400/1200), Naniwa large flattening stone 220, Naniwa Aotoshi Green Brick of Joy (2k), Norton waterstone 4 stone set (220/1k/4k/8k), Shapton Glass 4 stone set (320/1k/4k/8k and Shapton DGLP. I also have a 10" Tormek wet-wheel grinder. (Tormek SG-2000) I also have a King combo oil-stone which I use in my woodworking shop. I also have strops and 3M micro-abrasive sheets from Lee Valley Tools.
> 
> Regarding sharpening a 70/30 asymetric blade, just remember to have the apex of the blade coming into contact with your stone.




Oh my god. I hope one day I'm gonna be you.  Crazy collection.


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## Bobby2shots (Jun 6, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> Oh my god. I hope one day I'm gonna be you.  Crazy collection.



Fact is, I rarely need to use any of those tools. I take good care of my knives and avoid having them get dull in the first place..

Also, I'm no spring chicken.... I bought the Tormek and the King and Norton stones about 25-30 years ago, mostly for sharpening my Lie-Neilsen woodworking chisels and hand-plane blades (irons). 

I bought my first decent knives (Zwilling Pro S) in the late '70's, and only in the last few years have I gotten interested in kitchen knives,,, nothing exotic, but good knives nonetheless. In the last couple of years I've bought maybe 30 Wusthof IKON and Classic, Zwilling Pro, Shun, Miyabi, MAC, Victorinox, some of which I bought as gifts for my girlfriend and her daughters..(a dozen or so). My main interests these days, revolve much more around music and photography.


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