# Upgrade from Misono 440 recommendations



## Erilyn75 (Aug 22, 2013)

I bought my first Japanese knife (with your help) back in April, a Misono 440 gyuto and I really like working with it but I'm ready for an upgrade. It's currently on its way to Jon for a sharpening and to fix the tip which somehow curled. Anyhow, I'd like to stick with a rust resistant one, western handle and I think I'm going to go for a 240 this time. I'd also like to get one with kanji engraving on it with a budget of around $200-$250. Of course cheaper is always better 

Whichever knife I get I want it to be my "forever" gyuto and I plan to have the handle redone to really make it mine. The hubby is having heart palpitations over my knife addiction and told me to get one that I really like and stay with it lol. 

The one I really like is the Kikuichi Warikomi gold and the Damascus. I'm not sure if the makers name is etched or stamped and unsure of the performance so I'd like your input and suggestions on other knives please. 

Here is the link to my original post back in April

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/11897-First-Japanese-Knife-Recommendations


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## mhlee (Aug 22, 2013)

What are the some of most important improvements compared to your Misono that you're looking for?


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 22, 2013)

Hmmm, this is my only gyuto so I don't have anything to compare it to as far as function goes other than a Wusthof, which was a BIG improvement, but I would like something a bit sharper, bigger and honestly, prettier. I've got stones on order so that's something I'll be teaching myself soon. Basically, a sexy, sharp and good performing 240.


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## labor of love (Aug 22, 2013)

Western handle or wa handle?


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 22, 2013)

Western.


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## James (Aug 22, 2013)

Gesshin ginga or kagero? If damascus cladding is a must, I'd personally save up another $200-300 and pick up a Tanaka R2 or Saji R2.


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## tripleq (Aug 22, 2013)

Hiromoto AS maybe? AS is a great performer. I think the patina looks badass against the cladding too. I like the way they look OOTB but you can snazzy them up pretty good too. Do a search for some of the full spa treatments that Dave has done on them.


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## brainsausage (Aug 22, 2013)

The prettier x performance x western handle = $$$

If this is really the route you want to go, I'd save up a little more dosh, and then see where you want to go.


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## stereo.pete (Aug 22, 2013)

Honestly I agree with the above who mentioned saving up more money but if I was you I would order a custom from one of the makers on this board and be done with it.


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## cclin (Aug 22, 2013)

Western rehandle will cost you about $200+.....how about forget Damascus & rehandle and get a very nice 240 J-gyuto or custom gyuto for around $450~500?


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## Paradox (Aug 22, 2013)

Erilyn75 said:


> The hubby is having heart palpitations over my knife addiction and told me to get one that I really like and stay with it lol.



Sorry that's just not how this thing works. I agree, if this is it, save some more and get one that you may be able to stick with. Anything available at the $250 point won't be "THAT" knife I'm afraid. :cool2:


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 22, 2013)

Can I get a custom for that amount? Every one I've seen is $1k or more.


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## brainsausage (Aug 22, 2013)

stereo.pete said:


> Honestly I agree with the above who mentioned saving up more money but if I was you I would order a custom from one of the makers on this board and be done with it.



Yup


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 22, 2013)

Well I knew the re handle would be about $200 so I was factoring that into my calculations. If I can get a custom for around $450/$500 then that would be even better.

There's still 2 more knives I want to add to my collection. A slicer and nakiri because I think they are cool. First I have to get my forever knife and smooge up the hubby for more steel. He asked me tonight why I couldn't be like a normal wife and just ask for a purse or jewelry lol


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## ThEoRy (Aug 22, 2013)

Erilyn75 said:


> "Whichever knife I get I want it to be my "forever" gyuto"
> 
> "get one that I really like and stay with it"


Riiiiiiiiiiigghhhhhhtttt.....


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## James (Aug 23, 2013)

At that price range, I'm going to push for the Tanaka Ironwood. Beautiful knives with a nice handle to boot. Here's a pic I found of an etched one from the old forum.


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## cclin (Aug 23, 2013)

Erilyn75 said:


> Can I get a custom for that amount? Every one I've seen is $1k or more.


you have many choice of custom knife for around $~500(mostly wa-handle only)....price will rise up if you want some fancy handle! problem is loooooooooooong waiting time. Martell gyuto is good choice for western handle custom knife.


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## brainsausage (Aug 23, 2013)

Wait- he's weirded out that you want cool stuff that does something over stuff that does nothing except be pretty?!? (No offense to any jewelry makers on the forum...)


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## labor of love (Aug 23, 2013)

you also might want to pinpoint what exactly it is you want in a knife that you feel your not getting in the misono. if memory serves the steel isnt too hard at all so it should be pretty easy to sharpen and get pretty sharp. when you say you want to get a sharper knife, well the sharpness depends on you. i like the gesshin kagero suggestion if youre going to stick to your current budget. if you can save $300 or more alot more options will open up for you.


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## WiscoNole (Aug 23, 2013)

What makes you so sure about the western handle? A wa- would increase your options dramatically.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

That is pretty! Is it stainless?


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## ThEoRy (Aug 23, 2013)

Erilyn75 said:


> That is pretty! Is it stainless?



Yes, it's R2/SG2 Pm stainless. Awesome steel with Shigeki's heat treatment and grind.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

cclin said:


> you have many choice of custom knife for around $~500(mostly wa-handle only)....price will rise up if you want some fancy handle! problem is loooooooooooong waiting time. Martell gyuto is good choice for western handle custom knife.



Ya I was going to ask Dave how long the wait time was and see about getting on the list for the rehandle once I got the knife. I found a couple of pieces on burlsource that I loved.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

brainsausage said:


> Wait- he's weirded out that you want cool stuff that does something over stuff that does nothing except be pretty?!? (No offense to any jewelry makers on the forum...)



Anything to do with the kitchen is not cool to him unless he can eat it lol.


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## ThEoRy (Aug 23, 2013)

Erilyn75 said:


> Ya I was going to ask Dave how long the wait time was and see about getting on the list for the rehandle once I got the knife. I found a couple of pieces on burlsource that I loved.



I think he said it was around 10 months but that was a month or so ago... Don't quote me on that one.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

labor of love said:


> you also might want to pinpoint what exactly it is you want in a knife that you feel your not getting in the misono. if memory serves the steel isnt too hard at all so it should be pretty easy to sharpen and get pretty sharp. when you say you want to get a sharper knife, well the sharpness depends on you. i like the gesshin kagero suggestion if youre going to stick to your current budget. if you can save $300 or more alot more options will open up for you.



I haven't tried my hand at sharpening yet. I ordered a stone from korin today to start learning. It's currently on its way to Jon for sharpening and to fix the curl at the tip. I'm not sure if I can accurately describe what it is I'm looking for other than more oomph. I like the way it cuts though it could be smoother. And it could definitely be prettier. I don't need some super über knife because I'm not a professional or even close to it but I would like one with a bit more....something. I hope that makes sense.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

WiscoNole said:


> What makes you so sure about the western handle? A wa- would increase your options dramatically.



I've never handled a wa and the closest place to me is JKI which is 3-5 hours away depending on traffic. I'd be afraid I wouldn't like the feel and then be stuck with a knife I didn't like. On the other hand, I keep wondering what if I did end up liking it and then wasted my money on a western. 

Is there a big difference in the way it feels in hand compared to a western? I have thought about it.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

> Hiromoto AS maybe? AS is a great performer. I think the patina looks badass against the cladding too. I like the way they look OOTB but you can snazzy them up pretty good too. Do a search for some of the full spa treatments that Dave has done on them.




I was actually thinking about that too. Dave has done some beautiful work. Isn't the AS carbon at the edge though?


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## chinacats (Aug 23, 2013)

Erilyn75 said:


> I've never handled a wa and the closest place to me is JKI which is 3-5 hours away depending on traffic. I'd be afraid I wouldn't like the feel and then be stuck with a knife I didn't like. On the other hand, I keep wondering what if I did end up liking it and then wasted my money on a western.
> 
> Is there a big difference in the way it feels in hand compared to a western? I have thought about it.



If you use a pinch grip then I don't think you would notice much of a difference. I will say that if JKI is only 3-5 hours away that you should make the journey. He's open on the weekend and you could pick up your blade and hold/see a bunch of good knives all at once.


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## brainsausage (Aug 23, 2013)

chinacats said:


> If you use a pinch grip then I don't think you would notice much of a difference. I will say that if JKI is only 3-5 hours away that you should make the journey. He's open on the weekend and you could pick up your blade and hold/see a bunch of good knives all at once.



What he said. If I was as close as you, I'd probably hate me if I was Jon... You should just go there and stop wondering about all of these options, and actively handle them. Jon will steer you in the direction YOU need to go.


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## pkjames (Aug 23, 2013)

My takamura 240 gyuto also in R2 steel, less than $500 IIRC.


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## don (Aug 23, 2013)

For a "forever gyuto," it's worth the drive to JKI. You can read all the reviews, read the specs, but if it's one knife to rule them all, best to try it in your hand.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

Believe me, I wish I could. Unfortunately that's an impossibility until next march or April unless we are blessed with orders out of this dreadfully awful place lol.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

pkjames said:


> My takamura 240 gyuto also in R2 steel, less than $500 IIRC.




That's beautiful! So is the wood it's laying on!!


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## Timthebeaver (Aug 23, 2013)

The Kikuichi damascus is a OEM blade offered (far cheaper) by many companies, I would avoid that one. If you want damascus+western+performance, the recommendation of the Tanaka R2 is right on point. Very good value for money considering the materials/smith. The only gripe I have seen is that the handles are on the small side, which may or may not be an issue.

There's a new Hiromoto (Tenmi-Jyuraku Damascus) with a similar aesthetic, VG-10 core just been introduced by JCK which is closer to your price range.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

Timthebeaver said:


> The Kikuichi damascus is a OEM blade offered (far cheaper) by many companies, I would avoid that one. If you want damascus+western+performance, the recommendation of the Tanaka R2 is right on point. Very good value for money considering the materials/smith. The only gripe I have seen is that the handles are on the small side, which may or may not be an issue.
> 
> There's a new Hiromoto (Tenmi-Jyuraku Damascus) with a similar aesthetic, VG-10 core just been introduced by JCK which is closer to your price range.



I've been leaning towards a Hiromoto since I saw how stunning Dave made them in his spa thread. The Damascus really isn't that important to me, I just thought the way it flowed into the hammered part of the blade on the Kikuichi was rather pretty. 

How does the Hiromoto perform? It seems to be a popular knife given all the reworks Dave has done on them.


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## pkjames (Aug 23, 2013)

i would not recommend the hiromoto damasscus line, especially taking the pricing into account. I have 3 knives from the VG10 damascus line (doh! this was my first set of J knives back in 09), while it looks OK, its VG10 was not the best.

I have only read great reviews of the AS line, and if it was me, I'd pick up a 240 AS with Dave package over the damascus line.


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## Timthebeaver (Aug 23, 2013)

Erilyn75 said:


> I've been leaning towards a Hiromoto since I saw how stunning Dave made them in his spa thread.



Dave-pimped Hiromoto AS's appear from time to time in the buy/sell/trade forum here. Performance is going to be stellar if you pick one of these up, if you put out a "want to buy" post you may get some offers. Be aware that the hagane is not stainless though, although AS is pretty robust once a patina has set in.


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## Seb (Aug 23, 2013)

I vote for Konosuke HD western with white micarta handle.


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## statusquo (Aug 23, 2013)

For just a bit more $, something like this would definitely be a "forever gyuto":

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/14082-F-S-HHH-Knives-24-cm-AEB-L-gyuto


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## toddnmd (Aug 23, 2013)

I think you owe it to yourself to at least try out a wa handle before you commit to a "forever knife" (good luck on that, btw! ;-) As others have mentioned, that will open up your options.

Lots of people (myself included) find the transition to wa not much of an issue. Especially if it's a knife that cuts well and you enjoy using--you may not be thinking about the handle very much.

There are various ways you could do that without necessarily buying a brand new knife (which still couldn't be ruled out). You could be involved in a passaround or ask for a loaner (maybe even some of the good folks who have already commented have something suitable), or you could buy a reasonable contender on B/S/T (which you would likely be able to use and sell for almost the same price if it turned out to not be what you really wanted).

I think that waiting to get your current knife back from Jon might also make you appreciate it more. We know it will come back sharp. I don't know if that particular knife is a candidate for thinning, but I would guess its performance will be significantly enhanced when it's returned to you.


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## mhlee (Aug 23, 2013)

What I was trying to get at was the improvement in cutting performance that you would like from your new knife. 

From what I know about the Misono 440 (I've never owned or even used one), it probably doesn't wedge, but doesn't have good food release; slices relatively well without much resistance, but could be better. Do you like the profile/shape of the edge of the blade? Do you like using the tip of the knife?


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## stereo.pete (Aug 23, 2013)

mhlee said:


> What I was trying to get at was the improvement in cutting performance that you would like from your new knife.
> 
> From what I know about the Misono 440 (I've never owned or even used one), it probably doesn't wedge, but doesn't have good food release; slices relatively well without much resistance, but could be better. Do you like the profile/shape of the edge of the blade? Do you like using the tip of the knife?



If memory serves me correct, I was one of the people who recommended the Misono 440 as it is a great stainless beginner Japanese knife. They are very thin, easy to sharpen and take a very sharp edge. I wonder if the OP had her knife professionally sharpened or simply used the out of the box edge. I bought my friend a set of three 440's and I sharpen them once every 3-4 months and they get perfectly sharp for any kitchen tasks. Their also not soft as they can and will chip if abused (his wife tends to chip the santoku). 

My guess is that the OP has seen the light of what a Japanese made blade can do, and now wants to see what else is out there that might even be better. Welcome to the rabbit hole!


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## mhlee (Aug 23, 2013)

stereo.pete said:


> If memory serves me correct, I was one of the people who recommended the Misono 440 as it is a great stainless beginner Japanese knife. They are very thin, easy to sharpen and take a very sharp edge. I wonder if the OP had her knife professionally sharpened or simply used the out of the box edge. I bought my friend a set of three 440's and I sharpen them once every 3-4 months and they get perfectly sharp for any kitchen tasks. Their also not soft as they can and will chip if abused (his wife tends to chip the santoku).
> 
> My guess is that the OP has seen the light of what a Japanese made blade can do, and now wants to see what else is out there that might even be better. Welcome to the rabbit hole!



Ah. So her hubby has you to blame. :tease:

Is the 440 as thin as most lasers, i.e. around 2.2. mm at the spine?


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## stereo.pete (Aug 23, 2013)

mhlee said:


> Ah. So her hubby has you to blame. :tease:
> 
> Is the 440 as thin as most lasers, i.e. around 2.2. mm at the spine?



Michael,

I don't have access to the knife at the moment but again, if memory serves me correct, the 8" Gyuto they have is thinner than my 10" Konosuke White #2 if that is of every reference.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

statusquo said:


> For just a bit more $, something like this would definitely be a "forever gyuto":
> 
> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/14082-F-S-HHH-Knives-24-cm-AEB-L-gyuto



Ya, my husband doesn't love me that much lol. I think he'd expire if I spent that much on a single knife lol


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

toddnmd said:


> I think you owe it to yourself to at least try out a wa handle before you commit to a "forever knife" (good luck on that, btw! ;-) As others have mentioned, that will open up your options.
> 
> Lots of people (myself included) find the transition to wa not much of an issue. Especially if it's a knife that cuts well and you enjoy using--you may not be thinking about the handle very much.
> 
> ...




It still amazes me the amount of trust people on these forums have to lend knives out to others. Especially when I read about knives being stollen at the work place.

This forum really is a bad influence on my knife addiction. I see the beauties here and it makes me want more lol. Being practical though, I just cook at home and when I go to my mother in laws which is where the Misono is destined after I get another. Spending 20 min chopping rosemary on an extremely dull calphalon knife is definitely not enjoyable. I have to have at least one decent knife to use since I'm the designated chef while there. 

If I decided to go the wa route, which knife would you recommend?


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

mhlee said:


> What I was trying to get at was the improvement in cutting performance that you would like from your new knife.
> 
> From what I know about the Misono 440 (I've never owned or even used one), it probably doesn't wedge, but doesn't have good food release; slices relatively well without much resistance, but could be better. Do you like the profile/shape of the edge of the blade? Do you like using the tip of the knife?



Yes it's not a great food releaser. Cuts good but needs a little pressure cutting larger items like cabbage and melons but that may be the case with any knife. it also seems to have a bit of a drag when releasing. I do like the shape and use the tip a lot. I've got a santoku too and I don't like it. I much prefer the gyotu.


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## Erilyn75 (Aug 23, 2013)

stereo.pete said:


> If memory serves me correct, I was one of the people who recommended the Misono 440 as it is a great stainless beginner Japanese knife. They are very thin, easy to sharpen and take a very sharp edge. I wonder if the OP had her knife professionally sharpened or simply used the out of the box edge. I bought my friend a set of three 440's and I sharpen them once every 3-4 months and they get perfectly sharp for any kitchen tasks. Their also not soft as they can and will chip if abused (his wife tends to chip the santoku).
> 
> My guess is that the OP has seen the light of what a Japanese made blade can do, and now wants to see what else is out there that might even be better. Welcome to the rabbit hole!



I think you hit it right on. I want more power so to speak lol. The tip on mine curled, not sure how but I'm guessing my daughter or husband either hit it on the edge of the sink or put it away too roughly. I did get the initial sharpening from korin when I purchased it. Same with the santoku though that one doesn't get much love around here except from the hubby. Go figure lol.


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