# Frustration with Instagram and webstore races to get custom makers' new knives



## josemartinlopez

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with how some custom makers sell their knives. Many of these makers are wonderful people who make wonderful knives and I want to see them successful and stay in business. I just want to vent and express some frustration about the process, completely separate from the makers and the knives (in other words, nothing personal). 

I acknowledge in advance that there is no easy way to allocate a very limited number of items. The pain of buying knives from these makers is nothing compared to the pain in buying paintings from sought after artists and collectibles. 

A lot of makers these days put up one or a small number of knives for sale on their websites, or even sell via Instagram direct message or e-mail reservations. This is first come, first serve, and the first person to complete the check out or send a message gets the item. (This is also true for certain retailers, and arguably for KKF BST.) Usually, a teaser is sent on Instagram saying knives will be available in a few hours or a few days.

Incidentally, I am in Asia and the times are usually past midnight for me.

The most discussed examples are probably Bryan Raquin and Halcyon Forge. I emphasize Bryan in particular is both well loved personally and for his knives. They give some notice that a knife is coming up at a specific time (set to the French or Missouri time zone), and first to click at that exact second and check out gets the item. Many people have tried this only to see the item sold before they check out.

This system is actually the least frustrating for me. You have a few minutes of excitement and get back to what you were doing (or go to sleep), lucky or unlucky.

(To be very clear, I am not calling out Bryan or HF in any way or objecting to how they do things. They are just the most familiar examples and, again, Bryan is both well loved personally and for his knives here. I hope it is clear that I am mentioning them solely as the most familiar examples to illustrate the process.)

My frustration comes because there were past sales with other makers where the webstore did not work or the knives were posted at a different time from what was announced. (Once, I even mixed up the time because I am not American and make mistakes with US daylight savings adjustments.) Perhaps the most frustrating is when there is no set time and people are encouraged to sit at their laptops refreshing the webstore screen for several hours--in my case, after midnight in Asia.

Makers are free to sell to who they want and what kind of customer base they want to cultivate. However, it is frustrating for me as a customer because it is a really bad customer experience. We are not teen-agers lining up for hours for sneakers (though this is done electronically these days). It cannot be good long term to cultivate a customer base chosen based on how much time they can devote electronically camping out at the webstore. If you think about event tickets, if you sold tickets only to people who can line up for hours at the ticket booth, you are selling to a certain segment and even encouraging flippers.

Perhaps there is no good solution. Perhaps it is up to us to figure it out and the important thing is that makers are able to sell. This has been discussed before, and it seems the only alternative in the market is the Bloodroot solution of holding a lottery.

Again I just wanted to vent, but I emphasize: Many of these makers are wonderful people who make wonderful knives and I want to see them successful and stay in business. I just don't have the time to jump through these hoops and may just give up with no hard feelings.


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## damiano

Yeah what can you do.. I understand your frustration. But you can't really blame the maker, because he has no control over the demand. 

The only way he can somewhat control the demand is to jack up the price. Your post is related to the Raquin knife? Would you still be interested if he were to ask 1400 euro? Be glad he doesn't..


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## josemartinlopez

As emphasized, it's not about a Raquin knife because his system is relatively painless.

If he were to raise prices, I'd rather the money go to him instead of a flipper, though.


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## Moooza

Would there be anywhere as much interest for these knives if they were super easy to get?

This comes across as entitled.


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## josemartinlopez

Heh, like limited edition sneakers?


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## KO88

Feel similar here. 


josemartinlopez said:


> Makers are free to sell to who they want and what kind of customer base they want to cultivate. However, it is frustrating for me as a customer because it is a really bad customer experience. We are not teen-agers lining up for hours for sneakers (though this is done electronically these days). It cannot be good long term to cultivate a customer base chosen based on how much time they can devote electronically camping out at the webstore. If you think about event tickets, if you sold tickets only to people who can line up for hours at the ticket booth, you are selling to a certain segment and even encouraging flippers.
> 
> Perhaps there is no good solution. Perhaps it is up to us to figure it out and the important thing is that makers are able to sell. This has been discussed before, and it seems the only alternative in the market is the Bloodroot solution of holding a lottery.




Totaly agree. I ve 2kidds home. And yes it encourages the flippers. Also there are people who hording those knives and does not even use em. 

In my eyes the Bloodroot slolution is the best.

Understand your frustration here is the same  

Also it s great that people like Bryan, Robin etc. can make full time happy for that and I do understand that it comes hand in hand with the "hard to buy" ****  

Crying and hoping in change


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## Dhoff

A very well written and honost post imo.

I always wondered why auction is not more used as the knives tend to sell out in seconds.

I think Bryan also mentioned at one point that he contemplated making a "I wish to buy X" list. Then it would be by length of the knife and little else. Not custom, but a way to get in on the action at some point in time.


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## josemartinlopez

If there were such a list, I would just give a length and go with maker’s choice. He knows better how to design a knife than I do.


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## benhendy

JML, I completely understand where you are coming from after last nights shall we say "mistake" from a certain maker, and I liked your since removed post on the matter.
I'm 2 hours ahead of you and had set my alarm to wake up to find that message posted.....
I've done it plenty of times hoping to "win the lottery" with various makers with no success. I also have a poor internet connection reducing my chances even further.
There has got to be a better way but as discussed on here a number of times what is it? 
Bloodroots solution as noted above? 
A pure lottery of interested parties putting in $10 or $20 and the maker generates a number? 
Or what Bryan did recently whereby people noted their interest and names were selected randomly for the opportunity to purchase a custom?
Either that or these in demand makers can open up their books and then very quickly close them for 2-3 years which will make potential customers more unhappy.
It is exceedingly difficult for in demand makers to keep existing (and potential) customers happy.
I have no idea what a possible solution could be - perhaps Bryans recent option to nominate and then the random draw seems pretty fair. This also eliminates conspiracies about "bots" and the like....


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## ian

I really like Catcheside’s forged geometry order line. He has a limited number of knife options that you can sign up for, with no customization available. You pay some nominal fee, like 10 euros or something, to get your name down for one of them, and then he contacts you about the knife a few months later. (When he contacted me at the end of the wait, he did actually offer a couple handle upgrades.)

As a consumer, I find this system much less stressful than the first come first served version. I’m never going to even try to beat the rush to a Raquin. But in the end, it’s up to the maker. Maybe having this kind of insane competition does help their sales, although you kind of wonder, if everything sells out in 3 seconds, couldn’t the maker stand to lose a little bit of hype without affecting their sales? That’s assuming they don’t want to raise prices, in which case it seems like the limiting factor is their output, not demand.

In short, though, more power to the makers. I salute them, and they get to decide what they do. After all, for us the stakes are “do we get yet another absurdly expensive kitchen extravagance” while for them the stakes are “do I get to pay rent/mortgage and buy groceries”.


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## alterwisser

It’s ok to complain, but this does sound entitled.
It’s a makers decision how to sell knives. If they auction them off they go for high(er) prices. Great for the maker, but then the ones who can’t afford them will complain.

A lottery might make most sense. Or a mix of approaches ... who knows.

but even if it’s a lottery, people complain (happened with BRB)...


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## alterwisser

ian said:


> I really like Catcheside’s forged geometry order line. He has a limited number of knife options that you can sign up for, with no customization available. You pay some nominal fee, like 10 euros or something, to get your name down for one of them, and then he contacts you about the knife a few months later. (When he contacted me at the end of the wait, he did actually offer a couple handle upgrades.)
> 
> As a consumer, I find this system much less stressful than the first come first served version. I’m never going to even try to beat the rush to a Raquin or whatever. But in the end, it’s up to the maker. Maybe having this kind of insane competition does help their sales, although you kind of wonder, if everything sells out in 3 seconds, couldn’t the maker stand to lose a little bit of hype without affecting their sales? That’s assuming they don’t want to raise prices, in which case it seems like the limiting factor is their output, not demand.
> 
> In short, though, more power to the makers. I salute them, and they get to decide what they do. After all, for us the stakes are “do we get yet another absurdly expensive kitchen extravagance” while for them the stakes are “do I get to pay rent/mortgage and buy groceries”.



i dunno if Catcheside is a good example for handling it, but that’s a different story.

i think we really shouldn’t complain about not being able to buy a luxury item, especially in times when millions of people don’t know how to pay for their next meal. It’s indecent in my book.


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## Nagakin

This is exactly like crying about shoes. No one _needs _an exclusive drop from a premium maker. You can still jog in chucks. It's completely your choice to stress over how a maker chooses to run their business because you can't get what you want for your collection. 
@alterwisser nailed it with the term luxury item. Basically none of these go to people who will abuse and push them as tools anyways.


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## josemartinlopez

alterwisser said:


> It’s ok to complain, but this does sound entitled.


Not sure why it's entitled when I say, I only have so much time and am happy not to play.


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## tchan001

To be fair, Bryan Raquin did make a lotto for 3 custom orders so he is not just selling via his website. These are mostly one-man shops and if they become popular enough there are always people who miss out on getting the knife at the right place at the right time. Thank goodness there is BST where you can place an WTB ad asking if someone is willing to let go of a knife you really want. Many people have been able to get their desired knives like this. Secondly, you can always explore newer makers who seem to be able to produce good knives but haven't attracted the crowds yet. For Japanese knives, you seem to have discovered Manaka and his knives are starting to get attention and respect but still not that much of a following yet. There seem to be quite a few interesting Swedish knife makers who have not received as much attention as Dalman yet. Retailers also explore smaller makers and some of them have made it big. JNS for example promoted Mazaki for a while until the maker outgrew the distributor. There are many ways to enjoy collecting and using good kitchen knives.


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## josemartinlopez

Again, I very clearly stated this has nothing to do with Raquin because his system does not eat up your time.


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## alterwisser

It’s ok to complain, but this does sound entitled.
It’s 


josemartinlopez said:


> Not sure why it's entitled when I say, I only have so much time and am happy not to play.


 so you’re saying; you’re willing to outspend the guys who are quicker or stay up longer/wake up earlier so you can get a knife?

sure, not entitled at all


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## ian

I think it’s fine to complain about things you find frustrating, as long as you acknowledge your privilege and the fact that the stakes are much lower for you than for the maker. I mean, if you say you can’t complain because many people In the world are starving, you shouldn’t really complain about anything in your life. Got a pay cut and have to move into a smaller apartment? Thousands of people in your country are homeless, suck it up. You shouldn’t complain about your downgrade in living quarters to a homeless person, but you can complain about it to other people. Most people reading this thread are probably also interested in buying fancy knives, so I think it’s fine as long as you aren’t disregarding the well being of the makers. It’s true that maybe it would be better to say it in a non whiny way as more of a question, though: “I found this frustrating. Is there a better way?”

I do hope that the solution is not to make everything auction based, or to raise prices astronomically, though. Since then I’ll be priced out. But to be honest, I’m already basically priced out at current prices, so who cares.


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## josemartinlopez

alterwisser said:


> so you’re saying; you’re willing to outspend the guys who are quicker or stay up longer/wake up earlier so you can get a knife?


Don't put words in my mouth man. Think I said the exact opposite, that I'm happy not to play.


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## alterwisser

josemartinlopez said:


> Again, I very clearly stated this has nothing to do with Raquin because his system does not eat up your time.



name some names then. We’re all adults here.

and you know: if you’re willing to pay, you can get pretty much any knife ... just not straight from the maker. For the right price I’ll sell you any and every single one of my knives ;-)


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## tchan001

The problem with a maker setting an exact time for releasing his knife is that his computer can get swamped and there is no one that can get on the system to buy. Even if you get a slot, you might not get another connection to press buy after filling in everything. I think as a buyer, I'm more frustrated with the set time approach when I can't get connections than having to refresh from time to time hoping the knife ability finally opens. In any case, as long as the makers in high demand can continue to keep making great knives for us at reasonable prices, it benefits the crowd of enthusiasts and provides the makers purpose in continuing to produce great works. It's a lot worse when a great maker finds that his work is not providing enough for his reasonable standard of living and they just stop producing.


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## alterwisser

josemartinlopez said:


> Don't put words in my mouth man. Think I said the exact opposite, that I'm happy not to play.



Play rhymes with pay 

anyway, you also said you’re willing to give up. So I’m not sure what the message is really.

you don’t like the mechanisms of how some makers sell their knives, because you can’t get one when going through the process. So you want it changed. But if it doesn’t you will give up?

i would say: if it frustrates you, give up now. Not worth it, at all. You will be able to find pretty much any knife if you’re patient. Took me two years to get a Billipp. And that never showed up anywhere for sale (Insta, BST, Ebay etc)...

I also wasn’t able to get a Raquin for a long time and then was able to get 3 within 4 months.

Patience is a virtue


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## TSF415




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## RDalman

My reasoning for non-planned random times for the drops are because I DON'T want people to sit waiting. And I want fairness for more to get chances to buy. If time is set the sales get so fast it's ridiculous, and I get many people disappointed over that they had item in checkout but couldn't because someone was faster.


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## ian

Bryan just started a live IG video. Heh. Is this his response to this thread? Go, go, enigmatic genius.

Edit: people seem particularly enigmatic when the sound isn’t working on your phone, so you think he’s just doing a silent live video of himself sharpening.


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## mise_en_place

ian said:


> Edit: people seem particularly enigmatic when the sound isn’t working on your phone, so you think he’s just doing a silent live video of himself sharpening.



Sound not working or you just slept through your French classes?


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## Ruso

People always wonder if lotteries are rigged.


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## Tristan

I hate fastest cart wins. Announcing a specific time is worse unless the drop is substantial.
The mechanic rewards a specific type of buyer/customer.
It’s ok to have that as a sale mechanic, though perhaps shake it up with alternate ways for people to buy? 
Raquin is not the only one by a long shot.


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## josemartinlopez

RDalman said:


> My reasoning for non-planned random times for the drops are because I DON'T want people to sit waiting.


Heh, I guess the tendency for your fans is to unfortunately try to sit and wait.

Maybe there is no perfect answer since there will never be enough items for each potential buyer and that's what keeps it exciting. Let me just say that I went out of my way to buy your knives because I treasure our correspondence.


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## ian

mise_en_place said:


> Sound not working or you just slept through your French classes?



Heh, the former. My French definitely needs work, though. I spent one month in Toulouse a few years in a row, taking language classes in the morning, but I still can’t speak worth a damn. Stupid American here.


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## alterwisser

He speaks English though 

Regarding the “fastest” to buy. The problem is that it is VERY easy to set up and use a bot for these shopping systems that most of the makers are using.

I know of at least one instance myself where they indeed have been used.


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## LewRob80

Sometimes when hunting, the kill is not the most enjoyable aspect, but the continued thrill of the hunt itself!


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## LostHighway

La Montagne watches this thread with avid interest


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## DrEriksson

First off, I think that it's important to be able to discuss ideas without completely derailing the issue at hand. Off course, it has to be acceptable to prefer a different purchasing situation. Let's discuss the idea, and stay away from ad hominem. 

I was actually thinking about the selling situation at lunch today (using my Heldqvist, which was a really quick custom order BTW). There's always a way of reducing demand with scarcity pricing. That would theoretically remove this issue completely, and also increase the revenue for the knife maker. 

Then I started thinking about economic sustainability for the knife maker. How many knives will the maker be able to sell at the higher price level? I think that the maker can get into a really problematic situation, where he's forced to lower the prices again. How will this affect those who bought when prices were high? Will the other customers be put off?

I think that the only incorrect solution is to suggest that there is a simple solution. It is a complex problem. I also have the feeling that knife makers stumble in to this business due to their passion for knives. So perhaps we need to accept some flaws in the selling system, and instead appreciate the knife makers for their skill at their trade? Or you can always buy a $50k Kramer horse-knife...


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## KO88

josemartinlopez said:


> Heh, I guess the tendency for your fans is to unfortunately try to sit and wait.
> 
> Maybe there is no perfect answer since there will never be enough items for each potential buyer and that's what keeps it exciting. Let me just say that I went out of my way to buy your knives because I treasure our correspondence.




Yeah that happened to me. But with the same result  I m gambler so lottery is the best way for me. And the best thing about it is that the CASINO always win!


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## timos

I am curious why no one seems to use existing auction sites? Wouldnt ebay be perfect way for a maker to get the most they can for these high demand items?

I have only used the buy it now function on ebay personally so I dont know how easy it is to screw with the process. 

otherwise if a maker wants to continue to sell for a standard price, the random number generator with teh 10$ or 20$ ticket price seems to be most fair.


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## tchan001

I agree that if a maker sells at high prices to avoid a scarcity of supply, it drives away the masses who can only afford a certain level. Thus once the demand from the wealthy is sufficiently satisfied, it makes it difficult to lower the price point again to make an adequate living for the maker. And if the maker tries to make a second more affordable line, it seems likely to cannibalize from the premium line. From the perspective of a maker, it seems best to supply at a level where it is affordable to the masses while continuing to make a good living as a maker and then adjusting prices upwards little by little while offering improved products.


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## rmrf

I think second price auction is supposed to be a "more fair" than other types of auctions. (Second price is when each person bids once the maximum amount they would pay for a knife. The winner is the one who bids the highest amount and they pay the second highest bid. This is the same as ebay auction if you can only bid once). 

I think a good compromise might be some percentage of the knives are on a second price auction style and the rest are in some sort of lottery. That way, poor people like me can pretend to have a shot at one of these knives and if you really want a knife from a maker, you can get it without giving money to flippers. Sellers will make more money too, which is always a good thing.

edit: I didn't think about scaring away of the masses. Honestly, I'm already scared away by the prices of most of these types of knives so I don't have much insight


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## tchan001

I personally don't like random generators to determine the winner. The hunt and the score brings a lot of satisfaction in the buying process. It makes it more a reward for one's own efforts rather than just random luck.


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## tchan001

Perhaps highly demanded makers could try a reverse auction with their most innovative knives. Start at a very high price which goes down with time until it hits a certain price which is the absolute minimum the knife would be sold at. Wealthy people who really want the knife will have to decide how high a price they really want to buy at before someone else buys it first.


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## rmrf

I sort of assumed lotteries were the same as the "hunt and score", but you only get "on" the lottery if you're fast enough.

I bet some mathematician or economist has studied this for general auctions, but I wonder if knife auctions are different due to scarcity or hype/brand of the maker/popular opinion being important makes it different.


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## valgard

I don't see why you're frustrated


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## spaceconvoy

Thanks for the laugh, this has been hilarious.  Collectors' Tears  Some of y'all are so delusional and disordered. It warms my black heart to picture certain frustrating people punishing themselves for hours just to own a knife. So many unexamined assumptions, not only about basic market principles, but your own goals and satisfaction.


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## Elliot

valgard said:


> I don't see why you're frustrated
> 
> View attachment 99709
> View attachment 99710


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## tchan001

valgard said:


> I don't see why you're frustrated
> 
> View attachment 99709
> View attachment 99710


Well the current lineup JML has shown us in his blog is not weak at all. Combined with his "I will buy it" collection from BST, he has amassed quite a collection in only a few months. How many years did you spend to collect your fine collection?


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## alterwisser

tchan001 said:


> Well the current lineup JML has shown us in his blog is not weak at all. Combined with his "I will buy it" collection from BST, he has amassed quite a collection in only a few months. How many years did you spend to collect your fine collection?



can someone point me to that blog? I’m curious ...

and yes: the hunt is the satisfying part!


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## Rob McKenna

alterwisser said:


> He speaks English though
> 
> Regarding the “fastest” to buy. The problem is that it is VERY easy to set up and use a bot for these shopping systems that most of the makers are using.
> 
> I know of at least one instance myself where they indeed have been used.



Curious what instance you know of. Bryan himself made a recent post showing site analytics for his store, saying that he has never had a person use a bot to get his knives. His store has a pretty funny reference to it right now


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## tchan001

alterwisser said:


> can someone point me to that blog? I’m curious ...
> 
> and yes: the hunt is the satisfying part!


www.kytchenknyfen00b.com
Just copy the link text and get to the blog on another tab. Pressing it while on KKF doesn't get you there. Not by my design. It's the system.
Try typing http:// in front of his blog URL and post it and see what shows up on the post. Censorship.


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## alterwisser

Ryan Adkins said:


> Curious what instance you know of. Bryan himself made a recent post showing site analytics for his store, saying that he has never had a person use a bot to get his knives. His store has a pretty funny reference to it right now



Wasnt Bryan’s store, and I won’t disclose it because I have that info from the person who used the bot.

Not every bot is easily detectable as such either, mind you...


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## FishmanDE

I think it's all about the random lottery (1 entry per) coupled with high priced wait list. I think that would be the most fair for all parties involved. Would it still benefit those with higher spending limits? Absolutely, but as previously stated, there's no way to have perfect system.


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## spaceconvoy

alterwisser said:


> Not every bot is easily detectable as such either, mind you...


This  All respect to Bryan for what he does, but I doubt he knows much about computers. The proof he offered that no 'bots' have participated in his auctions would only convince someone who learned about hacking from hollywood movies.


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## Jaszer13

I actually had a long E-mail conversation with Bryan about a year ago. I too became frustrated not being able to purchase his knives. I think out of frustration one night I sent him a pretty snarky whining E-mail. To my surprise he responded professionally and gave me great insight about his customer service values and the roadblocks of trying to please everyone.
*
I then understood from his behalf. How does one attempt to please everyone? *

Does he work by keeping a waiting list going that would extend to years of waiting?

Does he do random drops and keep his fan base clicking refresh for hours and build frustration when they don't get it after X amount of hours of work?

Does he publicize the drop time and create a frenzy so it basically comes down to "who has the fastest internet".

Does he work by auction only and drive the prices of his knives to 2K Euro+?

All of these options have draw backs and there will always be a loser. Some work better than others. After the conversation I had with Bryan, he soon decided to start listing multiple knives at once so there were greater chances of you getting a knife.

I think this is a very fair method. The only other method which I believe works better is the Bloodroot method which is basically a monthly drop of usually 10+ knives via newsletter. You then select which knife you want to purchase. They then draw a lucky winner for each knife. 

Anyway just my 2 cents.


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## tchan001

Well, be prepared to be frustrated tonight because Raquin knives will be on his website soon.

There's even a Valyrian Bot for sale.

Valyrian Bot
the most powerful BOT in the market,
forged in Valyrian Steel, quench in unicorn blood.
(see conditions of use, no refund, delivery on 72h )

price : 4,399.00


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## TSF415




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## MontezumaBoy

ian said:


> Heh, the former. My French definitely needs work, though. I spent one month in Toulouse a few years in a row, taking language classes in the morning, but I still can’t speak worth a damn. Stupid American here.



Lived in Toulouse a couple times (for over a year each time / flight test for Airbus) and even though I could read/write the language when I arrived it took a lovely lady pointing out to me that in Toulouse they "sing" the language not "speak it". She compared it to the US South ... sort of "y'all" ... it was an epiphany for me once I put a slang accent (sing-song) all the locals finally understood me ... too funny ... also in the South of France (unlike the North / other parts) they put a bit of accent on the end of words not just have them silent ... my $0.02 ... all the best!!

Sorry for the segue ...


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## Don Nguyen

I don't think there's any perfect solution - this is something I've been thinking about for years now.

The inherent problem with auctions is that, aside from marketing them well, the seller has no control over how the market perceives the value. What if it was a piece that was way more difficult and took more time, but was slightly different and not really in demand as much? It could end up selling for a fraction of what the maker actually wanted, and that's just one of the terrifying unknowns of running this sort of business. How do you project any sort of financial stability and actually carry through a solid business plan? Do you auction them on a regular basis? Seems like customers would get tired of that as well.

First-come-first-serve sounds like the most fair, but there's the problem with internet speed, timing, and time zone. There are makers that do email newsletters (which can be faster than loading up a cart and filling it out) for one-off pieces and the first committed response gets the knife, but emails aren't accurate within the minute. Sales absolutely get made in that minute, easily. Do you just pick the first response received, even though it might not actually be the first one sent?

Lotteries seem like the least troublesome but also the least pleasing.

Custom lists are too limiting.

Raffles are legal nightmares.


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## Robert Lavacca

When I first got into this hobby, I focused on purchasing knives in the $200-$300 range. I purchased a few synthetics and I went to work learning everything I could about how to care for the more budget friendly knives I had purchased. How to maintain geometry, how to properly sharpen an edge, how to maintain that edge, etc. I didn’t even think about purchasing knives over $350 until I got to a point where I was completely comfortable sharpening. I feel like this year I’m seeing more and more people step into this hobby and immediately start purchasing $800 or more blades and Jnats. I know this year was nuts. Probably brought a lot more people into this hobby. That’s great. Everyone deserves a hobby that they love and enjoy in their life. Just remember, this isn’t about having more than the other guy. This forum has more than just the show your new knife thread. Everyone is going to do their own thing and I get that, it’s your right. At the same time, if you’re new to this hobby, take a step back and learn how to really take care of what you already have purchased. This is not the only hobby that has people who are F1 professionals. Some people have a lot of time on their hands. I’m seeing a lot of new guys buying knives up like it’s going out of style. Some even in the $2000 range. I’m not saying that’s a problem. I’m just saying slow down. I don’t think bryan raquin is going anywhere. Some of you newer guys have bigger collections than guys who I know that have been in professional kitchens for years. Take some time to appreciate it and learn how to take good care of them.

This is not something I wrote only directed at the OP. It’s a general statement. 
Good luck on the hunt. It will happen one day. Tons of blacksmiths out there.


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## tchan001

Tons of blacksmiths out there, but it's only fun to collect what someone else also wants especially if you have a backup plan where you might not like the knife and want to eventually sell it on BST. Some knives on BST sell like hotcakes while some sell like kryptonite to supermen. I know which knives I want to concentrate my collection on. Not that I won't give other knives a try but just talking about the focus of my collection effort.


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## damiano

Fully agree with Robert Lavacca. I joined here a few months ago, looking for a single gyuto. Thinking I'd pay around 300 euro max. Someone already warned me here that I'd end up buying more than 1. As it stands, I'm probably going to spend 1250 euro on knives this year.

But for that amount I'll get 2 gyutos, 1 petty, 1 honesuki, and 1 deba. Seems reasonable for knives I'll probably be using for the next 20 years or so, plus seeing how quickly BST runs, they are not even illiquid assets.


----------



## RDalman

tchan001 said:


> Tons of blacksmiths out there, but it's only fun to collect what someone else also wants especially if you have a backup plan where you might not like the knife and want to eventually sell it on BST. Some knives on BST sell like hotcakes while some sell like kryptonite to supermen. I know which knives I want to concentrate my collection on. Not that I won't give other knives a try but just talking about the focus of my collection effort.


Speking of... How was the kryptonite?


----------



## tchan001

Haven't opened up the Kryptonite yet. Thank God I'm not a superman. 
The Kryptonite cost a lot and thanks for including the knife in the package.


----------



## josemartinlopez

That was some beautiful kryptonite.


----------



## Brian Weekley

I guess your choice is to get in line ... if the custom maker has a line, wait until the knife you want comes up on BST or post a WTB on the knives you want and offer a big premium over market to save you time. For example there is an absolutely gorgeous Rader and a classic Hazenberg on BST right now. Great prices on knives you almost never see advertised for sale. Stop reading this thread and go buy them.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Thanks coach


----------



## Brian Weekley

A gorgeous Catchside just got posted ... absolutely gorgeous and very rare from a top seller.

Get going ... there no shortage of great knives to buy.


----------



## josemartinlopez

tchan001 said:


> Well, be prepared to be frustrated tonight because Raquin knives will be on his website soon.


Heh, because I was replying to this thread, I actually forgot about that.


----------



## Brian Weekley

I mean my comments with absolute respect. I’m too old or stupid to figure out buying through Instagram. BST works for me so I made a list of makers who’s knives I wanted. I waited, watched BST and with the exception of a Comet filled my list. Might not be as fast as you like but you make a lot of friends in the process.


----------



## josemartinlopez

The friends are definitely a key part of the value, and I treasure the knives that come with a memorable conversation with the previous owner. Definitely true for my Raquins.


----------



## Gjackson98

Hints on how to win the fast checkout race: finger dumbbells roll 3 sets of 10 per day


----------



## Barmoley

alterwisser said:


> i think we really shouldn’t complain about not being able to buy a luxury item, especially in times when millions of people don’t know how to pay for their next meal. It’s indecent in my book.



So not to pick on you specifically, but I never understand this argument when being in the hobby or discussing luxury items. What you say is undoubtfully true, there are people less fortunate in the world. This is always the case. No one needs these knives, no one and the money spent on them could go to better uses and helping someone. So can money spent on watches, phones, boats, cars, restaurants, etc. Beyond covering basic needs everything else is a want and not a need. Should everyone give up all extras, sell our houses and donate everything to less fortunate?

It is OK, to discuss how luxury items are sold and the frustration associated with the process. Solutions exist, but if everyone is just thankful for even getting an opportunity then nothing will ever change.


----------



## Matus

This thread was triggered by frustration, yet you Jose decided not to name the maker that pushed you over the edge - and that was Yanick - who "dared" to make a mistake and list the knives one hour earlier that what he said before. Let's have a look at his IG post.









Now with that cleared up, let's try to see the world from the maker's point of view. Far from all western makers are so sought-after that their knives sell out within seconds of being posted online. The few guys who found themselves in the spotlight of interest suddenly need to face very various buyers - some would prefer to get on a looong waiting list, others want a lottery and some just shout "just shut up and take my money".

Maybe we should try to realize that these are one man run shops - from sourcing materials, making the product all the way to marketing and of course - last but not least - doing their own accounting. Very most of them do not just want to sell out to the highest bidder - they want to sell their work for what they think it's worth, they want to look in the mirror and see that they are being recognised and respected by their work and not be just a "knife making influencer of the day".

So maybe before someone gets all worked up for missing out on a knife, try to remember that there is an actual person behind it.


----------



## crockerculinary

That’s pretty damn rude


----------



## Corradobrit1

Matus said:


> This thread was triggered by frustration, yet you Jose decided not to name the maker that pushed you over the edge - and that was Yanick - who "dared" to make a mistake and list the knives one hour earlier that what he said before. Let's have a look at his IG post.
> 
> View attachment 99768
> View attachment 99769
> 
> 
> Now with that cleared up, let's try to see the world from the maker's point of view. Far from all western makers are so sought-after that their knives sell out within seconds of being posted online. The few guys who found themselves in the spotlight of interest suddenly need to face very various buyers - some would prefer to get on a looong waiting list, others want a lottery and some just shout "just shut up and take my money".
> 
> Maybe we should try to realize that these are one man run shops - from sourcing materials, making the product all the way to marketing and of course - last but not least - doing their own accounting. Very most of them do not just want to sell out to the highest bidder - they want to sell their work for what they think it's worth, they want to look in the mirror and see that they are being recognised and respected by their work and not be just a "knife making influencer of the day".
> 
> So maybe before someone gets all worked up for missing out on a knife, try to remember that there is an actual person behind it.


kytchenknyfen00b forgot to add the all important 'I will buy this' to his IG message.


----------



## ian

Matus said:


> This thread was triggered by frustration, yet you Jose decided not to name the maker that pushed you over the edge - and that was Yanick - who "dared" to make a mistake and list the knives one hour earlier that what he said before. Let's have a look at his IG post.
> 
> View attachment 99768
> View attachment 99769
> 
> 
> Now with that cleared up, let's try to see the world from the maker's point of view. Far from all western makers are so sought-after that their knives sell out within seconds of being posted online. The few guys who found themselves in the spotlight of interest suddenly need to face very various buyers - some would prefer to get on a looong waiting list, others want a lottery and some just shout "just shut up and take my money".
> 
> Maybe we should try to realize that these are one man run shops - from sourcing materials, making the product all the way to marketing and of course - last but not least - doing their own accounting. Very most of them do not just want to sell out to the highest bidder - they want to sell their work for what they think it's worth, they want to look in the mirror and see that they are being recognised and respected by their work and not be just a "knife making influencer of the day".
> 
> So maybe before someone gets all worked up for missing out on a knife, try to remember that there is an actual person behind it.



That’s a good post, that.


----------



## tchan001

So if you saw the knives all available before the announced time, would you make a purchase of the knife you desire or would you message Yanick right away to have him fix the website so that he can offer the knives at the right time and then you can join the action with the crowd and hope to end up with one of the offered knives after fighting the crowd?

I would definitely do a JML "I will buy this" and pick the knife I really want from the selection. Even if I were to be a good Samaritan, I'd have no idea if someone else would pop up while I'm trying to informing Yanick and the knives would all be purchased in the meanwhile.

I confess. I saw it first and purchased one. See it later on the newest knife buy thread as usual. 

Believe it or not.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Matus said:


> So maybe before someone gets all worked up for missing out on a knife, try to remember that there is an actual person behind it.


I completely agree with everything you said. Yes, I didn't want to name anyone because I wanted to discuss something I had been thinking about over the past weeks, not anyone in particular. I'm grateful for the thoughts expressed here on why different makers try different ways of selling (and might still not satisfy everyone).

Regarding yesterday's Yanick sale, yes I did post that and was quite frustrated. The context was not just the maker posting the knives at a different time from what was announced. It was because it was the third straight glitch in a row. The webstore was not working during the past two sales and would not allow checkouts. I appreciate small makers, but at that point I wondered if I wanted to spend the time going through this process.

Yanick was very gracious and reached out to me in private, and we had a nice chat about the details of his work. He makes beautiful knives and wished me luck in getting one in the future. As I emphasized in my original post, my frustrations with the sales process chosen by some makers is independent from their being wonderful people and their making wonderful knives.

I'll leave it to you how you take this response, and prefer that you did not name Yanick.


----------



## alterwisser

Barmoley said:


> So not to pick on you specifically, but I never understand this argument when being in the hobby or discussing luxury items. What you say is undoubtfully true, there are people less fortunate in the world. This is always the case. No one needs these knives, no one and the money spent on them could go to better uses and helping someone. So can money spent on watches, phones, boats, cars, restaurants, etc. Beyond covering basic needs everything else is a want and not a need. Should everyone give up all extras, sell our houses and donate everything to less fortunate?
> 
> It is OK, to discuss how luxury items are sold and the frustration associated with the process. Solutions exist, but if everyone is just thankful for even getting an opportunity then nothing will ever change.



i am with you, but I’m not calling out luxury items in general. I was specifically addressing the complaint about not being able to buy a knife because the buying process is not convenient to the interested party.

to me that sounds like “oh my god, it’s such a nuisance that I have to drive 6 hours to the next Maserati dealer!”

No one has to share that opinion, of course. It’s mine and I stand behind it.

And the comments on Yannick’s IG are ... low class.


----------



## RockyBasel

tchan001 said:


> Well, be prepared to be frustrated tonight because Raquin knives will be on his website soon.
> 
> There's even a Valyrian Bot for sale.
> 
> Valyrian Bot
> the most powerful BOT in the market,
> forged in Valyrian Steel, quench in unicorn blood.
> (see conditions of use, no refund, delivery on 72h )
> 
> price : 4,399.00


----------



## RockyBasel

Right on!

could not agree more


----------



## RockyBasel

I actually think patience is a good thing.

Perhaps I come from a place of hard work and perseverance in order to get something. Story of my life! Nothing has come easy

perhaps I am reminded of the balladeers Keith snd mick “you can’t always get....”

But I am also glad that these knives are not easily available- that is the thrill of the hunt

also, think of budgetary damage potential

I also think Bryan’s knives are reasonable in price as are Yannick’s ( I was lucky and I landed my first Yannick this week) - given they are 1 man shops (think the lengthy other post by a German maker recently)

I also landed a Dalman this week - lucky again

also, entitlement oriented whining is completely not my thing - I am lucky to have what I have - the most expensive and rare to get knife is not actually my favorite knife

and I don’t want to start a blog. I like to use them in the kitchen, and I am happy to wait for a few months before I land my first Bryan R

I have never used BST, but have been able to get 5 Shigs, Kato, Yannick, Dalman, etc. new from retailers in the last 2 months or so.

if you can’t wait 6 months or a year for a great knife, then perhaps entitled is the right descriptor

part of the fun is waiting and biding my time


----------



## tchan001

Superman of knife buying shows up on KKF.


----------



## RockyBasel

Haha - more like super-dog (or mutt)

I do like JML’s blog - I would recommend it to people to read. I applaud him for that. As long as he keeps it authentic and objective and real, and not trying to sell and promote, I will continue to recommend it and read it - it really is a decent start, and will only get better with time


----------



## RockyBasel

Also, only reason I have these knives is due to a knife whisperer on the forum!


----------



## Smidderton

I wonder where Bryan finds the unicorn blood for his valyrian bot. Hard to come by these days.


----------



## KO88

Smidderton said:


> I wonder where Bryan finds the unicorn blood for his valyrian bot. Hard to come by these days.



You didnt see him using Kato...?


----------



## Panamapeet

RockyBasel said:


> Haha - more like super-dog (or mutt)
> 
> I do like JML’s blog - I would recommend it to people to read. I applaud him for that. As long as he keeps it authentic and objective and real, and not trying to sell and promote, I will continue to recommend it and read it - it really is a decent start, and will only get better with time


To each their own, but anyone who recommends a Tanaka ironwood as 'beginner gyuto' clearly is lacking in the common sense department...


----------



## alterwisser

Panamapeet said:


> To each their own, but anyone who recommends a Tanaka ironwood as 'beginner gyuto' clearly is lacking in the common sense department...



that was an odd recommendation, yeah. It might be easy to use, but I think it’s way too expensive for a beginner knife ...


----------



## daveb

josemartinlopez said:


> Regarding yesterday's Yanick sale, yes I did post that and was quite frustrated. The context was not just the maker posting the knives at a different time from what was announced. It was because it was the third straight glitch in a row.



First world problem....

Yawn


----------



## btbyrd

Panamapeet said:


> To each their own, but anyone who recommends a Tanaka ironwood as 'beginner gyuto' clearly is lacking in the common sense department...



Unless they're trolling.


----------



## tchan001

From the perspective of someone who can amass such a substantial collection of knives in a few months, the Tanaka ironwood is probably indeed the starting point for friends with similar background.

As daveb says:
"First world problem...."


----------



## Panamapeet

btbyrd said:


> Unless they're trolling.


If that is a troll, then he is lacking in the trolling department.


----------



## btbyrd

If you say so.


----------



## RockyBasel

tchan001 said:


> From the perspective of someone who can amass such a substantial collection of knives in a few months, the Tanaka ironwood is probably indeed the starting point for friends with similar background.
> 
> As daveb says:
> "First world problem...."



i did not read his blog with a fine toothed comb - was supportive of his efforts overall. He has a new hobby, and wants to write about - I can appreciate the effort around this fledgling hobby and His newfound opinions, some embryonic.

I don’t trust JML judgment or recommendations on knives yet - there are extremely knowledgeable and experienced people here - steel nerds, professional cooks, craftspeople, etc. I trust those individuals perspective. JML has little experience (less than even me) and he is not that qualified to opine yet, because he started very recently.

I also think he does not express an opinion (crickets whenever a query posed to him by an experienced person), or he expresses an opinion wantonly, when he may not know what he is talking about

His has certainly added a dimension to KKF


----------



## josemartinlopez

RockyBasel said:


> JML has little experience (less than even me)


----------



## RockyBasel

I do like your blog! Keep it going


----------



## FishmanDE

So this is now the second time I've seen a Mod come in a stir a pot instead of keeping a thread on track. This thread was designed as a vent and as a conversation point on how releases are run and could possibly be better run. No one cares about your moral stances on world hunger, no one cares if you think someones entitled and no one needed to screen shot specifics when the OP openly acknowledged he didn't want to name names because he saw it as a wide spread issue. I'm starting to get pretty frustrated fingering through 4 pages of **** posting to find the 5 posts actually pertaining to the topic. And yes, I say that knowing none of you care what I think.


----------



## tchan001

I'm ok with Mods voicing an opinion of his own regarding the topic at hand. Mods are also members with opinions just like regular members.
But I would recommend that when a Mod voices a warning as a Mod, that there is a notification in the post that the message is being said in the role of being a Mod. That makes it more clear to members that certain threads are being moderated rather than being opinioned/opinionated.


----------



## RockyBasel

Agree - good approach


----------



## FishmanDE

tchan001 said:


> I'm ok with Mods voicing an opinion of his own regarding the topic at hand. Mods are also members with opinions just like regular members.
> But I would recommend that when a Mod voices a warning as a Mod, that there is a notification in the post that the message is being said in the role of being a Mod. That makes it more clear to members that certain threads are being moderated rather than being opinioned/opinionated.



He could have easily posted his opinion without dragging screen shots into it. It pretty creepy the level people are now going to attack certain members. It's bad enough threads get consumed by it, but stalking someones social media is just weird. And again, just want to hammer home the post in question had very little to do with the actual OP. There was no new constructive dialog about the actual issue.


----------



## tchan001

I understand your point. My post was just about how I think Mods should separate their opinions and their moderations in general practice.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Hey to be fair, @Matus posted screenshots from a maker’s public Instagram account so I don’t think he was stalking anyone and was not being creepy.

Let’s all calm down and let @RockyBasel randomly post pics of his Toyama gyutos again given this thread has now been completely derailed.


----------



## Matus

@FishmanDE , the IG post in question was actually brought to my attention by a third party.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

Pshh. Please.. first time I ever tried thinning a knife, I used a tanaka ironwood.


----------



## josemartinlopez

I can’t get a Raquin?


----------



## RockyBasel

Oh no, was it a Yannick? Please tell us what frustrates you


----------



## Matus

tchan001 said:


> I understand your point. My post was just about how I think Mods should separate their opinions and their moderations in general practice.



[mod post]

I actually sometimes do use [mod post] kind of flag - especially if I made both a personal and a mod post. But this whole thread did not contain a [mod post] until now, so there was nothing to flag.

Obvious mod posts are normally not flagged as such. You know them when you see them.


----------



## tchan001

He must have built his own Valyrian...


----------



## spaceconvoy

usually the point of a pissing contest is to see who can piss the furthest, not who can get the wettest


----------



## FishmanDE

@FishmanDE , the IG post in question was actually brought to my attention by a third party.
[/QUOTE]

@Matus Never said you did the stalking, just the pot stirring.


----------



## tchan001

Wow, if you look at the posts of ganl.ig on IG, he has a LOT of different Raquins. NOW I feel frustrated with trying to buy Raquins. It almost feels like that guy has a direct line to front run the knives on the Raquin website. A 'Flash Boy' of the Raquin website rather than Wall Street. LOL.

Read the book, Flash Boys by Michael Lewis if you want to know what I mean.


----------



## Matus

If setting a record straight is pot stirring to some, than be it.


----------



## Jaszer13

I gotta tell ya... I was thinking about this topic last night and realized the gratification gained from scoring my first Raquin, Hazenberg, Kato, Shig, Hinoura etc...

The loop holes I had to go through for each of those knives just made it that much more special and that's something I have came to appreciate.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Funny I was chatting with someone about this. The idea of a chase doesn't excite me, but that's just me. I get my fun from using the knife and talking to the maker, retailer and/or previous owner about it.


----------



## Elliot

Regarding Gan and the post you guys shouldn't have put here... perhaps it's just that some in the knife community prioritize certain makers, work hard to catch them when they're dropped. And perhaps most importantly, don't talk mess and sound like little brats when they can't get one.


----------



## RockyBasel

Jaszer13 said:


> I gotta tell ya... I was thinking about this topic last night and realized the gratification gained from scoring my first Raquin, Hazenberg, Kato, Shig, Hinoura etc...
> 
> The loop holes I had to go through for each of those knives just made it that much more special and that's something I have came to appreciate.



Precisely! 100% with you on this one.


----------



## alterwisser

Elliot said:


> Regarding Gan and the post you guys shouldn't have put here... perhaps it's just that some in the knife community prioritize certain makers, work hard to catch them when they're dropped. And perhaps most importantly, don't talk mess and sound like little brats when they can't get one.



yep. And there are others who have more Raquins anyway ...


----------



## Chopper88

josemartinlopez said:


> Funny I was chatting with someone about this. The idea of a chase doesn't excite me, but that's just me. I get my fun from using the knife and talking to the maker, retailer and/or previous owner about it.



The chase is only enjoyable if it ever ends.


----------



## RockyBasel

Ever or never?


----------



## Chopper88

Ever, or do you enjoy chasing things ending up never being able to buy?

I sometimes get frustrated as well, and have even accepted several times I wouldn't be able to buy what I wanted, but somehow it ended up on my path unexpectedly anyway. Do I enjoy the object more in the end? Yes. Can I honestly say I enjoyed the hunt? No, I already gave up in the mean time.

Note that I am strictly talking about searching for very specific items to buy here. Not talking about striving for perfection or getting to the next level etc.


----------



## RockyBasel

I am always reminded of the Stones - you can’t always get what.....

endless failure vs. impatient expectation of instant gratification

I think you and I fall in between those two extremes

I too accept it, when I could not get a Kato, almost gave up, accepted patience, and I ended up getting one anyway.

Such is the mysterious path of the knife world


----------



## tchan001

Regarding Gan, I will just congratulate him on his super fast fingers and being able to purchase so many nice knives. Will continue to strive for the ones I want and hope to succeed. I've had a fair share of good luck as well so I shouldn't complain. Let's all continue to support our favorite knifemakers in continuing their creative endeavors. I've turned my frustration into positive motivation for success.


----------



## Byphy




----------



## alterwisser

Come on guys, the hunt isn’t really the exciting part, the satisfaction of finally getting THE knife after a long hunt, that is the gratifying part!

The hunt can be incredibly frustrating, but succeeding after a long hunt is more satisfying than just clicking a button or two somewhere and holding the knife 2 days later.


----------



## alterwisser

tchan001 said:


> Regarding Gan, I will just congratulate him on his super fast fingers and being able to purchase so many nice knives. Will continue to strive for the ones I want and hope to succeed. I've had a fair share of good luck as well so I shouldn't complain. Let's all continue to support our favorite knifemakers in continuing their creative endeavors. I've turned my frustration into positive motivation for success.



i wouldn’t judge a book by its cover in this case anyway. I don’t believe for one second that he was the fastest on that many knives ... there are other avenues to get specific knives. Plenty of knives never show up on certain sites.


----------



## Matus

On the technical side of knife hunting - it is a fact that some (and I would assume these guys most likely do not hang around KKF) go as far as having bots doing the clicking. Some sellers have the chance to counter act that in one way or another, but I would assume that most western makers do not have the time to invest the additional effort (which requires also dedicated tools and skills/knowledge) to fight that.


----------



## RockyBasel

I need a bot- where do I find one? joking. My finger is getting fatigued from refreshing.

I think if the knife is readily available or does not move quickly on BST, we become hesitant to buy it

if it’s scarce (think Mazascus or soon Kisukascus), then we all jump in the bandwagon, we do get a thrill when we land it

getting a knife with no chance of failure is not the same as getting it and feeling like you won the lottery - like Racquin, or Kaiju.

unless of course, you have a personal relationship with the maker - if you have that, then getting the knife through a personal connection or something more customized to you, may be the most gratifying of all.


----------



## DanielC

I havent yet read this pretty big thread, but the first page or so.

Let this be a chance to try other makers maybe, OP?


----------



## josemartinlopez

I've tried other makers.


----------



## ian

Have you tried DanielC?


----------



## alterwisser

josemartinlopez said:


> I've tried other makers.



there are plenty more you didn’t try, guaranteed!


----------



## DitmasPork

josemartinlopez said:


> I've tried other makers.



Best of luck in your search! Yeah, Yanick an awesome knife maker. Love mine.
[Didn’t have time to read entire thread]


----------



## ian

I know. I was so pleased when I got my 15th Yanick. It’s the best of the lot. It’s too bad you missed out, JML. I’m sure if you try again you’ll have better luck eventually. I always just happen to be lucky, it seems, as I haven’t missed out on one for a while now. Life has always been like that for me, though. #blessed


----------



## IsoJ

For me, the more randomness that envolves in selling the most asked knives, the better. Every maker/seller should do just as they please or want. Nowadays there are anyway too much attitude that everything should be equal or everything should work without flaws or mistakes. We are all humans and full of flaws and we are all "individuals", so if a maker choose to do differently than somebody else, whatever the reason might be, that is more than fine IMO. Time to try overgrinda maybe?


----------



## josemartinlopez

Overgrinda? Is this Finnish candy?


----------



## tchan001

Please show us a picture of your blessed collection so us less fortunate can drool over it.


----------



## tchan001

IsoJ said:


> For me, the more randomness that envolves in selling the most asked knives, the better. Every maker/seller should do just as they please or want. Nowadays there are anyway too much attitude that everything should be equal or everything should work without flaws or mistakes. We are all humans and full of flaws and we are all "individuals", so if a maker choose to do differently than somebody else, whatever the reason might be, that is more than fine IMO. Time to try overgrinda maybe?


TFTFTFTF


----------



## IsoJ

josemartinlopez said:


> Overgrinda? Is this Finnish candy?


Japanese happytime on sp120 stone


----------



## daveb

tchan001 said:


> WTFWTFWTFWTF



Fixed that for you.


----------



## Gjackson98

Alright guys let me fix the issue here


----------



## Ruso

I always wonders how much one need to pay to cut in line? Is it 3 time the retail price or 20 times?


----------



## alterwisser

Ruso said:


> I always wonders how much one need to pay to cut in line? Is it 3 time the retail price or 20 times?


----------



## tchan001

If you do cut the line like that for a custom knife, you better really really like your knife because you will never ever get back close to what you paid via BST.


----------



## ian

If you’re paying 3x or 20x retail value, probably you’re loaded enough that you don’t even care about the money.

This conjecture is purely theoretical, however.


----------



## Elliot

I can say emphatically that this has NOTHING to do with cost. I am fortunate to consider Bryan a friend and can tell you he is above reproach.

I am also fortunate to consider Gan a personal friend.

These are both men of the highest integrity and the notion that they’re somehow going around the free market is nothing short of shit****ery.

Just because a lot of the people on this forum lack class doesn’t mean the whole community does.


----------



## Ruso

> Just because a lot of the people on this forum lack class doesn’t mean the whole community does.


I don't have any stake on this matter (western high end knives), but man, you don’t show much of it either in your post.


----------



## alterwisser

Elliot said:


> These are both men of the highest integrity and the notion that they’re somehow going around the free market is nothing short of ********ery.



what exactly do you mean by “free market”?

are you saying others are suggesting that knives sometimes somehow make their way to someone outside the newsletter sale? And that the idea is bonkers and an insult?

IMHO a free market is ... free! So in that case Bryan could do whatever he wants: sell all knives to one guy, none to another, auction them all off, sell them all in a newsletter ... or none, or just some...


----------



## Matus

This thread has pretty much turned into beating a dead horse.


----------



## alterwisser

What is all the fuss about?


Matus said:


> This thread has pretty much turned into beating a dead horse.



Mod mode or Matus mode?


----------



## bryan03

sorry ,i have something else to do ...


----------



## Elliot

Matus said:


> This thread has pretty much turned into beating a dead horse.



Might be wise to delete it since it adds absolutely no value to the forum. Never did tho.


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> I need a bot- where do I find one? joking. My finger is getting fatigued from refreshing.


There should be a discount offered for treating repetitive stress syndrome, not to mention F5 button replacements.


----------



## Jaszer13

Damn JML banned... now I'll have to resubscribe to cable TV.


----------



## Matus

Sadly, lately few threads add any value or contain any meaningful discussion. I think it is a side effect of the times we find ourselves in.


----------



## Matus

Jaszer13 said:


> Damn JML banned... now I'll have to resubscribe to cable TV.



He is just taking a 30 day rehab. We shall see after that.


----------



## alterwisser

Matus said:


> Sadly, lately few threads add any value or contain any meaningful discussion. I think it is a side effect of the times we find ourselves in.



The power is with you ....


----------



## Matus

With power comes responsibility. Easier said than done though.


----------



## damiano

Wait what happened, what did I miss??


----------



## daveb

Nothing to see here.


----------



## Ruso

Did he get the ban hammer upon himself because of this thread?


----------



## daveb

Nothing to see here.


----------



## Ruso

Boooooo ring


----------



## daveb

Like watching cereal get wet.

The story of my life...


----------



## juice

Elliot said:


> These are both men of the highest integrity and the notion that they’re somehow going around the free market is nothing short of ********ery.
> 
> Just because a lot of the people on this forum lack class doesn’t mean the whole community does.


Nice strawman "defending" in order to do a little name-dropping...


----------



## alterwisser

juice said:


> Nice strawman "defending" in order to do a little name-dropping...



I found that post confusing. But there wasn’t a reply to my inquiry for clarification ...


----------



## Smidderton

Where is this thread heading?


----------



## alterwisser

Smidderton said:


> Where is this thread heading?



i actually think it’s back on track. If the thread had any merit to exist in the first place is a different topic.


----------



## tchan001

It's not heading very far with the OP on vacation for 30 days.


----------



## alterwisser

tchan001 said:


> It's not heading very far with the OP on vacation for 30 days.



well, if we fill up this thread in the meantime he maybe has so much work on his hands to read all the posts that other threads remain virginesque from his “input” for another day or two


----------



## Elliot

alterwisser said:


> I found that post confusing. But there wasn’t a reply to my inquiry for clarification ...



I responded to everything of value you said.


----------



## Dhoff

Could this thread be closed please? Nothing even remotely near topic or productive. Currently just setting a bad mood.


----------



## alterwisser

Elliot said:


> I responded to everything of value you said.



i only asked for clarification. My comment was just as valuable as yours.

The reason I was asking:

There are two ways to circumvent a newsletter sale:

1) offering more money to make sure a knife doesn’t make it’s way to the newsletter or to score a knife in general

2) finding other ways to convince a maker to “skip” the usual selling process

I wanted to make sure that we understand which one of the two you meant. If you know Bryan you know why I’m asking this. Let’s not beat around the bush here.

You came out swinging in defense of Bryan and one customer and in the process accused people here of being low class.

Happy to discuss this in a pm if you don’t want it out here ....


----------



## alterwisser

Dhoff said:


> Could this thread be closed please? Nothing even remotely near topic or productive. Currently just setting a bad mood.



i actually think it would be good to fully disclose how knives are sold. And that is related to the topic.

what I see here is similar to people not voicing negative opinions about a lot of knives because they’re worried they might diminish resale value down the road...


----------



## Matus

I was about to close this thread and then @alterwisser had to do this last minute attempt to resuscitate the zombie ... 

Is there really lack of clarity how makers sell their knives? I mean - all do it nearly exclusively online. Most stop taking custom orders at some point as they made themselves a name and are not dependent on it. Some still do take customs later for one reason or another. Most just drop their knives on their sales-pages, some announce the event in advance. Some go through the trouble of setting up a lottery system that makes people to complain less (like Bloodroot Blades guys do). Most makers seem to refuse to break their own rules by selling a knife 'offline'. Otherwise they would open a completely new can of worms.

Did I forget something relevant?


----------



## Dhoff

alterwisser said:


> i actually think it would be good to fully disclose how knives are sold. And that is related to the topic.
> 
> what I see here is similar to people not voicing negative opinions about a lot of knives because they’re worried they might diminish resale value down the road...



Think Matus stated most of what seems relevant. If something is left uncovered, I'd suggest making a new thread with a clear topic and hopefully less toxic start point of the discussion.

And no, I did not accuse you in any way of being toxic, I just found some posts in the thread, recently left a bad taste in the mouth and wasn't contributing to a nice tone and proper discussion.


----------



## Elliot

To address, I have never heard of a single case of someone offering more cash to circumvent Bryan posting a knife. I, like many, have sat at the computer at 7pm french time and missed. However, I don’t blame the seller or attack him ( and devoted customers ). That’s what we have here, and it’s low class and, frankly, supplying incorrect information to those who may not know the score.


----------



## damiano

I'm still interested in knowing whether JML is banned, and if so, why. As a newcomer to the forum I'd like to know how things are being run here, and what the role of moderators is.


----------



## bryan03

sorry , still have something better to do ...


----------



## Matus

You have some balls Bryan to post that ...


----------



## alterwisser

Matus said:


> I was about to close this thread and then @alterwisser had to do this last minute attempt to resuscitate the zombie ...
> 
> Is there really lack of clarity how makers sell their knives? I mean - all do it nearly exclusively online. Most stop taking custom orders at some point as they made themselves a name and are not dependent on it. Some still do take customs later for one reason or another. Most just drop their knives on their sales-pages, some announce the event in advance. Some go through the trouble of setting up a lottery system that makes people to complain less (like Bloodroot Blades guys do). Most makers seem to refuse to break their own rules by selling a knife 'offline'. Otherwise they would open a completely new can of worms.
> 
> Did I forget something relevant?



i did not agree with the voices here Recently that singled you out for moderation getting out of hand, but honestly: why you have to single and call me out while I was BY FAR not the only one keeping this thread alive, is beyond me. And it’s really not a Zombie that has been dead for ages. If you feel this is a meaningless discussion, that’s one thing and for you to decide .... but it’s not anywhere close to whole threads spiraling into a CM hatefest...

That reminds me: how does CM decide who gets her super sought after rasps?


----------



## alterwisser

Elliot said:


> To address, I have never heard of a single case of someone offering more cash to circumvent Bryan posting a knife. I, like many, have sat at the computer at 7pm french time and missed. However, I don’t blame the seller or attack him ( and devoted customers ). That’s what we have here, and it’s low class and, frankly, supplying incorrect information to those who may not know the score.



thanks for clarification. That’s what I wanted to know. I agree with you that it’s highly unlikely that Bryan would do that. He doesn’t seem to be driven by profit maximization. He could sell his knives for a lot more and doesn’t.

I still think it’s his right to do that and also to accept big cash if a fool is willing to spend 10k on a knife (just making sh** up). Those beach vacations need to be financed after all (sorry @bryan03, couldn’t resist. Enjoy your vacay and stop checking this toxic thread )


----------



## tchan001

I have no problem if small makers offer their personal friends the favor of a knife from time to time outside of newsletter, IG or the website sales. Makers are normal people with personal friends and many friends do give gifts and favors to each other from time to time for occasions like birthdays and Christmas, etc. But I would expect such friendship gifts and favors to only take up a minor amount of the output that a maker is able to produce if the maker aims to sell to the public. I do not have any maker with whom I have such friendship with at this moment. So just trying to give an objective viewpoint.


----------



## alterwisser

tchan001 said:


> I have no problem if small makers offer their personal friends the favor of a knife from time to time outside of newsletter, IG or the website sales. Makers are normal people with personal friends and many friends do give gifts and favors to each other from time to time for occasions like birthdays and Christmas, etc. But I would expect such friendship gifts and favors to only take up a minor amount of the output that a maker is able to produce if the maker aims to sell to the public. I am do not have any maker who I have such friendship with at this moment. So just trying to give an objective viewpoint.



And why would it not be ok for A maker (lets leave Bryan out) to sell half of his output to people he personally picks or has a relationship with? I haven’t seen a lot of makers (outside of BRB maybe) who openly and transparently says: this is how we sell knives and only like this.

As a customer I cherish transparency, and I would love for a maker to come out and clearly say: this is how you can get a knife from me (through a, b and c), no exceptions.

As a maker I would never do that though. You’re limiting yourself. None of us has any rights, not to buy a knife or to know how many are sold through offline channels.

Just an example: the other day I happened to respond to an IG Story. It was just a nice comment about a knife (didn’t inquire to buy it), just mentioned something about the specs that I would change. The maker said that he made a second and offered it to me....

I think that should absolutely be his right. He doesn’t what to list it in his Webshop.... and I’m not saying that because I bought it but because it believe in a makers right chose how, where and to whom to sell their knives.


----------



## tchan001

Makers can sell all their knives to friends if they want, but that gives them no public exposure. Sure their friends may buy a couple knives each from the maker, but I doubt they will aim to support the maker's living just by themselves. Thus a maker needs to build up a reputation outside his circle of friends to survive. He needs people who have bought and enjoyed his products to tell other people that they should also try it out. This implies that there is product available to newcomers. If you know that the producer plans to stop supplying the market tomorrow, would you still try to promote his knives to your friends?
Secondly, the reputation a maker builds up can break down in an instance. Witness the CJA fiasco and the aftermath with potential buyers. So a maker needs to be vigilant in protecting his public image.


----------



## F-Flash

Wahnamhong said:


> I'm still interested in knowing whether JML is banned, and if so, why. As a newcomer to the forum I'd like to know how things are being run here, and what the role of moderators is.



Because JML makes daveb want to have drink. And "mod team spend more time with his dumb ass sh!t than all of the other members combined".


----------



## alterwisser

F-Flash said:


> Because JML makes daveb want to have drink. And "mod team spend more time with his dumb ass sh!t than all of the other members combined".



i think JML is DaveB’s alter ego!

Prove me wrong. And while you’re at it, might as well try to prove that humans indeed landed on the moon! Good luck


----------



## daveb

Clarity > Tact


----------



## captaincaed

F-Flash said:


> Because JML makes daveb want to have drink. And "mod team spend more time with his dumb ass sh!t than all of the other members combined".


He seemed rather fond of you in his blag


----------



## Brian Weekley

A few years back I spent a lot of time being a mod on two sites related to a hobby that I was involved in. I can honestly say it was one of the most thankless tasks that I have ever been involved in. I spent endless hours coddling adult children who were all about “me me me“. Not satisfied with simply using the sites for the common, useful purposes for which they were intended, they picked and tore at the politics, alienating other users and dominating the site with incessant drivel. I could write a chapter on the childish, self-absorbed garbage that I had to deal with. Garbage that was served up by the smallest portion of the members which ultimately drove productive members from the site.

So here’s my take on the mods serving KKF. They are patient, fair and unobtrusive ... in short fabulous! Leave them alone and let them continue doing their jobs. Don’t second guess them, pick at them or negotiate with them. Be assured that you couldn’t deal with the amount of crap they deal with behind the scenes for no remuneration whatsoever. We‘re lucky to have them.

If you can’t do that or find KKF too restrictive go start your own site and you will soon find out that what I’m saying is true.

There ... I broke my own rule and opened my big mouth. I’ll probably live to regret it.


----------



## Matus

alterwisser said:


> i did not agree with the voices here Recently that singled you out for moderation getting out of hand, but honestly: why you have to single and call me out ...?



I apologize, it was meant 100% as a joke, I hope it was clear without a smiley. I was literally writing a thread-closing-post when I got the info that there is a new reply - it was yours and on topic - so closing the thread at that moment would have not been the right thing to do anymore.


----------



## panda

Dhoff said:


> Could this thread be closed please? Nothing even remotely near topic or productive. Currently just setting a bad mood.


or you can simply not read the thread any longer.


----------



## Matus

Thank you for your kind words Brian.


----------



## RockyBasel

bryan03 said:


> View attachment 100345
> 
> 
> sorry , still have something better to do ...


Wherever you are, enjoy! I wish for views like that l


----------



## Byphy

Please leave this thread open I personally wanna remember the silliness of when KKF members were mentioned along the lines with the KKK ... BECAUSE OF A KNIFE 

Props to the mods for having to deal w this stuff

Its just knives people lol


----------



## DitmasPork

panda said:


> or you can simply not read the thread any longer.



I actually enjoy this thread! For me, there's entertainment value as well as getting to know other members' opinions. If a thread bores me, I simply don't go there. Some of the more feisty threads are a welcome respite from my business sucking because of covid restrictions.


----------



## RockyBasel

Byphy said:


> Please leave this thread open I personally wanna remember the silliness of when KKF members were mentioned along the lines with the KKK ... BECAUSE OF A KNIFE
> 
> Props to the mods for having to deal w this stuff
> 
> Its just knives people lol



Hey, I was attacked by JML (bless his heart) a few times as a racist - never could understand why

Odd bird indeed

I want to get one of Bryan’s knives, will keep on focusing on finger speed 

My luck will turn eventually


----------



## Dhoff

panda said:


> or you can simply not read the thread any longer.




well, while that is true i personally like to not just accept phrasings that may be hurtful to others but instead try to draw attention to the problem to be the action i like the best.

each to their own. everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i think it just fair to be able to express it.  

enough soup has been made on my bone.


----------



## RockyBasel

Talking about soup - time to get out the Denka and start chopping some vegetables for dinner - it’s past 6 pm here in Basel...they are getting hungry


----------



## Barmoley

It is OK to be frustrated with not being able to buy something. It is also OK to voice that frustration on the forum dedicated to the subject in question. OP got a lot of crap partially because of who he is and many people are just annoyed. Bloodroot Blades lottery system is the most fair of the ones I've seen, but it is up to the maker how they want to sell what they make. No one said it has to be fair, but if a maker's goal was fairness, BB lottery is it. There is some overhead that the maker can cover by increasing price on every knife some amount and either hiring help or helping offset the time it takes to manage it. Again though, makers can do what they want and don't have to try to find ways to be fair.


----------



## Twigg

I think that unless a maker takes advance payment, they have no obligation. They are free to sell as they please, when they please, and to whom they please. I believe that if a buyer really wants something, they will put forth the effort to acquire the object of their desire. If not, then they did not want it badly enough. If the way any given maker sells their knives was detrimental to the maker's goals, then the maker will change or find a new pursuit. 

Also, I am glad @Matus chimes in a lot. He is my second favorite Mod.


----------



## MarcelNL

I too can relate to the unpaid job a mod has to do, treat them with kindness.

As much as I'd like to be able to shop online for a custom Shig the reality is that that won't happen (or not anytime soon).

I'm not interested in cars in a major way, yet there are some similarities...some (hyper)cars you can only buy after being invited by the maker, AKA being found 'worthy' (a certain Ferrari you do not even get to put in your driveway, the company will ship it to the track of choice for you). Similar things happen in more mundain life, restaurants at the level like f.e. NOMA or Fat Duck, having a 3-6 month solidly booked waiting list yet some people seemt to be able to get a table ad hoc anyhow. 

Is my life less complete, do I miss out, am I deprived of anything? Is it unfair that someone picks up 5 shigs in a month somehow? Heck no, WITH the knife a tiny part of my life may become nicer, nothing more.


----------



## OnionSlicer

I get that makers want to sell at what they consider a fair price, give anyone a chance to buy their work, not sell out to the highest bidder etc etc. It's commendable. But market value is determined by the market, not the maker. By selling below what the market would pay, they're just transferring value to the first buyer, who can then reap the rewards of the maker's labor and reputation in their stead.


----------



## juice

OnionSlicer said:


> By selling below what the market would pay, they're just transferring value to the first buyer, who can then reap the rewards of the maker's labor and reputation in their stead.


Possibly so. OTOH, we have several posters here who clearly have very little idea but plenty of money (and loud and constantly-expressed clueless opinions) and maybe the makers would like their knives to end up with actual users, not numbnuts collectors who don't even actually understand what they're collecting.


----------



## labor of love

JML never singled out Raquin for selling knives in a less than respectable way just so we’re clear.


----------



## labor of love

JML is also my soulmate, I must defend his honor.


----------



## juice

labor of love said:


> JML never singled out Raquin for selling knives in a less than respectable way just so we’re clear.


Nobody did. You had to really want to make it seem that way in order to get to where we got to...


----------



## tcmx3

for what it's worth I think the core original idea of this thread, i.e. that it has been incredibly frustrating to try and source anything this year, is actually pretty reasonable.

it may be a serious first-world problem, but I can empathize with that core idea. I've missed a ton of stuff this year. 'Angry' is not the emotion. Even 'sad' isn't right. both of those would seriously overstate things. It's just been a rough year overall and I want to buy a few toys, and it's yet another small frustration that SO many things are getting impossible to get without absurd luck. for example, I recently got a guitar pedal from Chase Bliss because I happened to be on my lunch break and was checking my personal email. They sold out within 10 minutes and now reverb has a handful for sale at about 2x what I paid from the manufacturer. The whole thing makes me feel a bit gross. I don't blame Chase Bliss, they are some seriously nice folks who are trying their best.

I just don't understand how anyone could be happy/enthusiastic about the current circumstance. ambivalent? sure. accepting? why not. but happy? 

furthermore, I think calling the original post "entitled" is a straight up surface of the sun level take.


----------



## daveb

labor of love said:


> JML never singled out Raquin for selling knives in a less than respectable way just so we’re clear.



And he made sure to point that out. 43 times. Each time bringing about a new storm.

It's never been in question that it's a timely thread. And there are no easy answers except that each maker is free to pursue their own path and each buyer is as well.


----------



## labor of love

I know I’m just responding to the vague accusations by some fanboys that the reputations of their favorite makers have been tarnished.


----------



## labor of love

I have nothing against fanboyism either. I plan on raving about shihan until the end of time.


----------



## RockyBasel

I am at peace knowing I will never likely have a Kato WH or maybe a Raquin. It just means I will have to buy more of other knives 

To each maker their own style of selling.

We will all eventually get what we crave, might take longer or less than expected 

Our demand is the cause of the scarcity, after all.

And enough of JML, let’s enjoy while he is taking a much needed ban-break


----------



## juice

labor of love said:


> I know I’m just responding to the vague accusations by some fanboys that the reputations of their favorite makers have been tarnished.


It's about telling people you're friends with the makers - if you're not doing that, you're missing the point.


----------



## ian

I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here


----------



## daveb

labor of love said:


> I have nothing against fanboyism either. I plan on raving about shihan until the end of time.



If you really felt that way you would sell me that knife for 2fifty so I could become converted and help spread the word!


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Sheesh, what a thread.


----------



## ian

ian said:


> I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here I’m responding here



Sorry for the spam, I just assumed after reading the past few pages that the game was to put your name in this thread without contributing any new information.


----------



## Twigg

I would like to thank myself, for being myself. Also, this thread has hit the point that we need throat singing.


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> Sorry for the spam, I just assumed after reading the past few pages that the game was to put your name in this thread without contributing any new information.


.


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> It's about telling people you're friends with the makers - if you're not doing that, you're missing the point.


Even better if the maker, yourself or both of you have yachts to hangout on.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

What.. the samhain.. did covid do to this forum. You know.. some of us have these tools in our hands for hours at a time everyday. Of course we want the best tools we can find. Get your prep done way quicker etc.. you think I don’t get frustrated when I can’t buy something I know would be great to have in the kitchen at work? Of course I do. I’m not going to start a thread about it lol. That’s life man. I might even see someone who was quick enough to get the knife use it once a week, once a month even, who knows and who really cares. It is what it is.


----------



## juice

Robert Lavacca said:


> It is what it is.


That's not the entitled attitude this thread was designed for, you know...


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> I am at peace knowing I will never likely have a Kato WH or maybe a Raquin. It just means I will have to buy more of other knives
> 
> To each maker their own style of selling.
> 
> We will all eventually get what we crave, might take longer or less than expected
> 
> Our demand is the cause of the scarcity, after all.
> 
> And enough of JML, let’s enjoy while he is taking a much needed ban-break


Katos regularly appear on BST, depends on what you're willing to pay. As for Raquins, they're attainable. You did score a Kaiju recently, so I can't feel all that bad for you.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Its always been like this, maybe different makers and now a lot more people (thanks Covid), but nothing new. In fact, try to buy a firearm or ammo now...same issue. He/she with the most money gets the carrot.


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> That's not the entitled attitude this thread was designed for, you know...


"I haz fist fool dollas! I nedz cutsies!"


----------



## tcmx3

RockyBasel said:


> I am at peace knowing I will never likely have a Kato WH or maybe a Raquin. It just means I will have to buy more of other knives
> 
> To each maker their own style of selling.
> 
> We will all eventually get what we crave, might take longer or less than expected
> 
> Our demand is the cause of the scarcity, after all.
> 
> And enough of JML, let’s enjoy while he is taking a much needed ban-break



it's really easy for me to say this, because I own/use a Kato I bought new from JNS, but there are other knives that are in that realm that cost what Katos did "back in the day". E.G. Tsourkan.

I personally find that all this unobtanium stuff, when you actually get it, it's very rarely materially better than what else you can get. Sometimes it is, sometimes not. I try not to lose sleep over it.

Except I have missed one or two particularly spectacular Parker 51 custom caps Id push someone down a flight of stairs to get.


----------



## btbyrd

The truth about unobtanium is that it doesn't cut any better or help you get through prep faster than much cheaper knives do. But they've got walrus penis ferrules, so let the bidding begin!


----------



## Robert Lavacca

btbyrd said:


> The truth about unobtanium is that it doesn't cut any better or help you get through prep faster than much cheaper knives do. But they've got walrus penis ferrules, so let the bidding begin!


Of course. I didn’t mean to say that just because a knife is $800 or more does not mean it will cut better than a kochi for example. I completely agree. Unfortunately, that’s not always the case though. Again, I do agree with what you’re saying, but I still stand by my point. Also I feel cheated i’ve never had a walrus penis ferrule.


----------



## rob

Brian Weekley said:


> A few years back I spent a lot of time being a mod on two sites related to a hobby that I was involved in. I can honestly say it was one of the most thankless tasks that I have ever been involved in. I spent endless hours coddling adult children who were all about “me me me“. Not satisfied with simply using the sites for the common, useful purposes for which they were intended, they picked and tore at the politics, alienating other users and dominating the site with incessant drivel. I could write a chapter on the childish, self-absorbed garbage that I had to deal with. Garbage that was served up by the smallest portion of the members which ultimately drove productive members from the site.
> 
> So here’s my take on the mods serving KKF. They are patient, fair and unobtrusive ... in short fabulous! Leave them alone and let them continue doing their jobs. Don’t second guess them, pick at them or negotiate with them. Be assured that you couldn’t deal with the amount of crap they deal with behind the scenes for no remuneration whatsoever. We‘re lucky to have them.
> 
> If you can’t do that or find KKF too restrictive go start your own site and you will soon find out that what I’m saying is true.
> 
> There ... I broke my own rule and opened my big mouth. I’ll probably live to regret it.


Beautifully said Brian. 
I am so glad you ”opened your big mouth” and totally agree with you.


----------



## juice

Robert Lavacca said:


> Also I feel cheated i’ve never had a walrus penis ferrule.


You can't get them unless you know the maker and pay them more to get it before it hits the open market. #KnifeBuying101


----------



## tchan001

JML never said that he didn't get a Raquin from a website sales, he only expressed frustration about buying from another maker who he did not name but was named by someone else. Someone once told him he spoke too much and should put his money into some knives so he can actually experience what it is all about. He did in a big way with his "I will buy it" spree on BST as well as his explorations elsewhere.
It seems he has amassed a substantial collection of fine kitchen knives and is trying to collect the small makers with great reputation just like everyone else is. Low supply and high demand for a product that is affordable by many users makes it difficult to buy. Anyways, hope everyone just doesn't get on his case while he is on vacation and cannot defend himself.


----------



## simar

redisburning said:


> Except I have missed one or two particularly spectacular Parker 51 custom caps Id push someone down a flight of stairs to get.



I feel the same way about some of the MB writers editions.


----------



## panda

RockyBasel said:


> Talking about soup - time to get out the Denka and start chopping some vegetables for dinner - it’s past 6 pm here in Basel...they are getting hungry


what kind of soup?


----------



## lemeneid

tchan001 said:


> JML never said that he didn't get a Raquin from a website sales, he only expressed frustration about buying from another maker who he did not name but was named by someone else. Someone once told him he spoke too much and should put his money into some knives so he can actually experience what it is all about. He did in a big way with his "I will buy it" spree on BST as well as his explorations elsewhere.
> It seems he has amassed a substantial collection of fine kitchen knives and is trying to collect the small makers with great reputation just like everyone else is. Low supply and high demand for a product that is affordable by many users makes it difficult to buy. Anyways, hope everyone just doesn't get on his case while he is on vacation and cannot defend himself.


From a collectors standpoint, his collection is a little strange judging from the ones he has posted so far. Did he really buy up all the unicorns?


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> And enough of JML, let’s enjoy while he is taking a much needed ban-break


I missed that. When did that happen and why? KKF needs its court jester


----------



## tchan001

lemeneid said:


> From a collectors standpoint, his collection is a little strange judging from the ones he has posted so far. Did he really buy up all the unicorns?


He probably hasn't posted all his knives yet. I certainly haven't finished posting on my KKF gallery yet.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Did I hear walrus penis? Now I know what I’m going to start collecting (you don’t have to own knives to have a penis collection!)


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## MarcelNL

every dick can collect, but for collecting Whale dicks you probably need a largish Denka


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## lemeneid

MarcelNL said:


> every dick can collect, but for collecting Whale dicks you probably need a largish Denka


My next knife, I’m not getting it with stag horn, but with whale dick!!!


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## btbyrd

I'm partial to this Halcyon Forge 220, as the "nicely veined" Damascus pattern emanating from the "creamy" walrus penis creates the impression of ejaculation. Of course, it's sold out and next to impossible to get something similar. Talk about frustration!


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## RockyBasel

panda said:


> what kind of soup?


Simple minestrone - like the one i had in London at this restaurant - Locanda Locatelli

Very hard to replicate - but sublime


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## RockyBasel

Carl Kotte said:


> Did I hear walrus penis? Now I know what I’m going to start collecting (you don’t have to own knives to have a penis collection!)



Also known as “baculum” to be more technical 

Sadly, evolution meant humans lost their bacula along the way


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## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> I missed that. When did that happen and why? KKF needs its court jester



I think recently, but not to worry, he will be back in 30 days or so. And eager to share what he has bought in 30 days while he was banned

It will be all good fun


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## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> Katos regularly appear on BST, depends on what you're willing to pay. As for Raquins, they're attainable. You did score a Kaiju recently, so I can't feel all that bad for you.


Haha - truth be known, I landed a Kato from Maksim last month.

But, my point still stands!


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## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> Haha - truth be known, I landed a Kato from Maksim last month.
> 
> But, my point still stands!



TBH, I like the range and diversity of ways to buy knives—whether direct, used or from vendors. If I miss out on something it doesn't bother me in the least—they'll be other knives, I'm in no rush, good things are worth waiting for.


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## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> TBH, I like the range and diversity of ways to buy knives—whether direct, used or from vendors. If I miss out on something it doesn't bother me in the least—they'll be other knives, I'm in no rush, good things are worth waiting for.



100 percent! I share the same view - patience is a virtue, good things come to those who wait, etc., etc.


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## tchan001

There's always a good deal coming around the corner.


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## RockyBasel

Precisely - sadly, not on some of the unicorns you have my friend


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## ian

The only really good deal in this business is the $15 Tojiro bread knife. Everything else is ridiculously overpriced.


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## daveb

My Kiwi is offended...


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## tchan001

Best knife deal I ever had was with an export company in Hong Kong that had a moving sale and was selling their samples cheaply before they moved. I was able to pick up two stainless steel kitchen knives for USD1.50 each. Not great steels at all but at that price, it was a great steal. I later gave them away as gifts and their new owners who are just regular home chefs are very happy with them.


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