# flatenning stones with the atoma 140



## r0bz (Mar 9, 2022)

I have 3 questions about flattening stones with the atoma 140

1. is it legitimate to flatten 120 grit water stone with the atoma 140 or you do not recommend that very bad for the atoma 140?
2. is it legitimate to flatten 240 grit water stone with the atoma 140 or you do not recommend that because it will be very bad for the atoma 140 ?

flattening 800 grit water stone with atoma 140 is okay from what I understand?


----------



## Infrared (Mar 9, 2022)

Using an Atoma on a 240 and 800 grit stone should be fine. With 120 grit, you risk wearing out your Atoma fairly quickly. I'd avoid using it on 120 grit.


----------



## Benuser (Mar 9, 2022)

Proceed with a light touch and streaming water. I don't use the Atoma 140 with a 220.


----------



## branwell (Mar 9, 2022)

Probably depends on the waterstone. I've used the same cheap 140 diamond plate to flatten all sorts of stones down to 150 for the better part of 8 years and it still works fine. On the other hand, there are some low grit stones that need to be flattened / conditioned on loose abrasive as they don't work well if hit with a diamond plate. Looking at you Norton India Course.

As to higher grit stones, I use the 140 to flatten all my finishers but also use various stones and plates to condition the surface after. The small blue DMT 320 grit plate is a good general purpose conditioner / slurry stone for finishers.


----------



## Benuser (Mar 9, 2022)

This is what I use with my coarsest Shaptons, both for flattening as to counter glazing. Well worth to spare the Atoma. I'm now realising they hold quite well.


----------



## Kiru (Mar 9, 2022)

r0bz said:


> I have 3 questions about flattening stones with the atoma 140
> 
> 1. is it legitimate to flatten 120 grit water stone with the atoma 140 or you do not recommend that very bad for the atoma 140?
> 2. is it legitimate to flatten 240 grit water stone with the atoma 140 or you do not recommend that because it will be very bad for the atoma 140 ?
> ...


SiC powder plus glass all the way!

If you just want to address the glazing on the stone, try put some SiC powder on it and rub with synthetic nagura.


----------



## r0bz (Mar 10, 2022)

Infrared said:


> With 120 grit, you risk wearing out your Atoma fairly quickly


that's what I had in mind thank you I wont be using the atoma for 120 grit stone


----------



## r0bz (Mar 10, 2022)

will a low grit waterproof sandpaper work flattening the 120 grit water stone or it is a waste of time?


----------



## M1k3 (Mar 10, 2022)

r0bz said:


> will a low grit waterproof sandpaper work flattening the 120 grit water stone or it is a waste of time?


Something like 3m Pro/Cubitron 60 grit works.


----------



## inferno (Mar 11, 2022)

r0bz said:


> I have 3 questions about flattening stones with the atoma 140
> 
> 1. is it legitimate to flatten 120 grit water stone with the atoma 140 or you do not recommend that very bad for the atoma 140?
> 2. is it legitimate to flatten 240 grit water stone with the atoma 140 or you do not recommend that because it will be very bad for the atoma 140 ?
> ...



1 if it says shapton on it its bad!

2 if its says sigma on it its bad!

to be honest. you will wear out that atoma very very quickly if you flatten coarse stones.
i would use it from 1k and up.


----------



## inferno (Mar 11, 2022)

r0bz said:


> will a low grit waterproof sandpaper work flattening the 120 grit water stone or it is a waste of time?



it will work. i'd use it dry. regular **** paper wont last very long. cubitron will last for a while. 

best option is SiC powder. 60-80 grit or so. its at least 10 times faster than paper. use wet.

i dont use any of it anymore with my coarse stones though. i just sharpen where the stone is higher, spreading the wear. i mean most coarse stones wear like butter. so just spread that wear and the stone will flatten itself. and a coarse stone imo dont have to be 100% flat to work. 

when its starts to dish just use the edges until its flat-ish again.


----------



## r0bz (Mar 12, 2022)

inferno said:


> 1 if it says shapton on it its bad!
> 
> 2 if its says sigma on it its bad!
> 
> ...


I will use the atoma 140 on the sun tiger 800 gritstone and stones with higher grit
one of the members here said sun tiger its the same company as the Kingstone


https://www.amazon.com/Sun-Tiger-Sharpening-Waterstone-Whetstone/dp/B07RDJZV3C?th=1


----------



## r0bz (Mar 12, 2022)

Benuser said:


> Proceed with a light touch and streaming water. I don't use the Atoma 140 with a 220.


I don't have a sink bridge can I water with a bottle once every 1 minute 30 seconds or so? like I normally do as I sharpen on a table 
i


----------



## Benuser (Mar 12, 2022)

r0bz said:


> I don't have a sink bridge can I water with a bottle once every 1 minute 30 seconds or so? like I normally do as I sharpen on a table
> i


I have the Atoma and the stone in my hands under the tap.


----------



## r0bz (Mar 12, 2022)

Benuser said:


> I have the Atoma and the stone in my hands under the tap.


okay thanks !!!
what is the reason running water constantly is required out of curiosity?
instead of applying water every while like whens sharpening


----------



## r0bz (Mar 12, 2022)

what is the reason to do it like this


instead of like this?


----------



## Benuser (Mar 12, 2022)

When sharpening the slurry is to some extent beneficial. No so when flattening.
Besides, you want to spare the Atoma and not be tempted to use pressure.


----------



## branwell (Mar 12, 2022)

Seems people are saying protect the Atoma, don't use too much pressure, don't use it on course stones.

I've legitimately been using a $30 cheap plate from CKTG for 8 years in a semi pro environment. Its been used a lot on Nubatama 150's, Shapton Kuromaku 220's and a ton of higher grit stones and seriously, it still works fine. I never baby it, I put as much pressure as I can on it, go as fast as I can. The only thing I don't do is put steel on it.

So I know this sounds like a poke at atoma, and I am not suggesting buying the CKTG plate, it might be rubbish now, I got mine 8 years ago, but if atomas don't last long, what makes them worth the extra money?


----------



## psfred (Mar 12, 2022)

I use 60 grit SiC either on something hard like the sidewalk or that chunk of sandstone I'm flattening. I have a coarse grit diamond lapidary plate, but the diamonds are spread out pretty far and it doesn't work well.

Most coarse grit waterstones are soft enough you don't have to worry too much about fracturing the diamonds on the Atoma, but that is not universally true -- King Deluxe 300, Shapton Glass, and probably a few others of very hard composition will both wear the plate badly or burnish the stone, neither of which you want. 

My King Deluxe 300 needs "refreshing" fairly often when I'm grinding off lots of hard steel (like the yanagiba I screwed up) or it starts to act like a 1k grit stone. A few seconds with some grit and the sandstone chunk and it's good to go. Sandstone is almost flat now too, going to use it on razors I think.


----------



## nexus1935 (Mar 12, 2022)

psfred said:


> I use 60 grit SiC either on something hard like the sidewalk or that chunk of sandstone I'm flattening. I have a coarse grit diamond lapidary plate, but the diamonds are spread out pretty far and it doesn't work well.
> 
> Most coarse grit waterstones are soft enough you don't have to worry too much about fracturing the diamonds on the Atoma, but that is not universally true -- King Deluxe 300, Shapton Glass, and probably a few others of very hard composition will both wear the plate badly or burnish the stone, neither of which you want.
> 
> My King Deluxe 300 needs "refreshing" fairly often when I'm grinding off lots of hard steel (like the yanagiba I screwed up) or it starts to act like a 1k grit stone. A few seconds with some grit and the sandstone chunk and it's good to go. Sandstone is almost flat now too, going to use it on razors I think.


Thanks for the commentary on the King Deluxe 300. I have one that's starting to dish and haven't flattened it before.

Have you tried something like this before? Wondering if that 60 grit would be effective for the KD300 - not as messy as SiC powder and cheaper than an Atoma.






Amazon.com: Glass Polish 15003 | Diamond Hand Pad, Hand-Held Sanding Block for Grinding, polishing, Sharp Edges | Grit 60 : Tools & Home Improvement


Buy Glass Polish 15003 | Diamond Hand Pad, Hand-Held Sanding Block for Grinding, polishing, Sharp Edges | Grit 60: Sanding Blocks - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## psfred (Mar 13, 2022)

Yup. Don't bother, you will end up with a very hard, very slick, 2K stone. 

The point of using loose grit (and light pressure) is that the rolling grit dislodges grit from that hard stone leaving nice sharp edged particles. Silicon carbide particles fracture under pressue, so using a solid stone for the job grinds down the grit in the King leaving a smooth surface.

Took me a long time to figure out why my King was so good when I got it and then only polished after I flattened it. Very similar to Arkansas stones, where the grit is all about the same size, the difference between soft and hard and how they cut is how polished the grit is and how densely packed it is.


----------



## nexus1935 (Mar 13, 2022)

Makes sense, and sounds like SiC powder is still the way to go. Thanks for the explanation @psfred


----------



## r0bz (Oct 15, 2022)

inferno said:


> it will work. i'd use it dry. regular **** paper wont last very long. cubitron will last for a while.
> 
> best option is SiC powder. 60-80 grit or so. its at least 10 times faster than paper. use wet.
> 
> ...


so do you say flattening those coarse stones is counterproductive?


----------



## r0bz (Oct 15, 2022)

Kiru said:


> SiC powder plus glass all the way!
> 
> If you just want to address the glazing on the stone, try put some SiC powder on it and rub with synthetic nagura.


can a granite countertop be used instead of glass ?


----------



## stringer (Oct 15, 2022)

r0bz said:


> can a granite countertop be used instead of glass ?


It would work but it would destroy your countertop. Granite is much softer than SiC. I use a piece of stone floor tile. It might be slate. Could be something else too, I don't really know if I ever knew. I have used it once or twice a month for years and it is holding up fine. Eventually it will dish and I'll pick up another one from the hardware store.


----------



## r0bz (Oct 15, 2022)

stringer said:


> It would work but it would destroy your countertop. Granite is much softer than SiC. I use a piece of stone floor tile. It might be slate. Could be something else too, I don't really know if I ever knew. I have used it once or twice a month for years and it is holding up fine. Eventually it will dish and I'll pick up another one from the hardware store.
> 
> View attachment 203354


it's not my countertop its a piece of granite countertop


----------



## r0bz (Oct 15, 2022)

should i get a rectangle of glass ?
does it have to be only float glass ?


----------



## stringer (Oct 15, 2022)

r0bz said:


> should i get a rectangle of glass ?
> does it have to be only float glass ?


The piece of countertop will work fine. Doesn't have to be glass


----------



## r0bz (Oct 15, 2022)

stringer said:


> The piece of countertop will work fine. Doesn't have to be glass


i also have a floor tile will it work also ?


----------



## r0bz (Oct 15, 2022)

stringer said:


> The piece of countertop will work fine. Doesn't have to be glass


also if you use the silicone carbide powder with water do you need to wear a respirator/mask?
or it does not go to the air ?


----------



## stringer (Oct 15, 2022)

r0bz said:


> also if you use the silicone carbide powder with water do you need to wear a respirator/mask?
> or it does not go to the air ?


If you use it with water you are fine. I don't let the grit go down my sink either. That's why I have that pan underneath. A floor tile will work fine too. If you notice it dishing you can put a piece of sandpaper down. And put the grit on that.


----------



## stringer (Oct 15, 2022)

r0bz said:


> also if you use the silicone carbide powder with water do you need to wear a respirator/mask?
> or it does not go to the air ?


Check out this info too from @captaincaed 

Thread 'How to Flatten a Stone (Lapping an Ark)' How to Flatten a Stone (Lapping an Ark)


----------



## r0bz (Oct 17, 2022)

stringer said:


> If you use it with water you are fine. I don't let the grit go down my sink either. That's why I have that pan underneath. A floor tile will work fine too. If you notice it dishing you can put a piece of sandpaper down. And put the grit on that.


so it cant go to the air if water is used ?


----------



## Legion74 (Oct 19, 2022)

r0bz said:


> so it cant go to the air if water is used ?


Maybe a tiny bit when you are pouring it out, but the wet stuff will say put. I dont use a respirator when I am lapping.


----------



## inferno (Oct 21, 2022)

r0bz said:


> so do you say flattening those coarse stones is counterproductive?


to your economy. 

i dont flatten 500 and down anymore. i just sharpen where the high spots are for a while and then all the sudden its flat again. i mean with low grit stones this is a matter of minutes. and to be honest you HAVE to do this all the time with coarse stones. because otherwise they will dish abnormally much in the middle.


----------



## inferno (Oct 21, 2022)

r0bz said:


> can a granite countertop be used instead of glass ?


no. granite is crystalline and glass is amorphic. the very definition of a "glass" is thats its amorphic. and that is what makes it last a long time when flattening ****.


----------



## inferno (Oct 21, 2022)

r0bz said:


> also if you use the silicone carbide powder with water do you need to wear a respirator/mask?
> or it does not go to the air ?



yes you need a level 3 "c0 kk-Suk/r) mask with the type 2 filters to avoid lung cancer. 

--------------


just kidding. this is why we are working with water stones. there is no dust to inhale, all that **** goes in to the water. 

but if you were to use these dry and you would see dust from them. yeah dont breathe it in. do t know what to tell you here. but breathing synthetic ceramic dust is kinda "ungood". you know.


----------



## r0bz (Oct 22, 2022)

inferno said:


> no. granite is crystalline and glass is amorphic. the very definition of a "glass" is thats its amorphic. and that is what makes it last a long time when flattening ****.


so i need to find myself a piece of glass and cant use the granite or the floor tile?


----------



## Delat (Oct 22, 2022)

inferno said:


> no. granite is crystalline and glass is amorphic. the very definition of a "glass" is thats its amorphic. and that is what makes it last a long time when flattening ****.



I’ve been wondering about that - the one time I tried flattening with loose grit on glass, the glass got all scratched to hell. Are you saying that despite all the scratches the glass won’t actually get dished or worn away?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Oct 22, 2022)

Delat said:


> I’ve been wondering about that - the one time I tried flattening with loose grit on glass, the glass got all scratched to hell. Are you saying that despite all the scratches the glass won’t actually get dished or worn away?



It will dish eventually.


----------



## stringer (Oct 22, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> It will dish eventually.


Yeah, SiC will cut glass readily. Learned that one the hard way when I left a Crystolon in my pocket with my cell phone for a few hours. Scratched the snot out of it.


----------



## Kawa (Oct 22, 2022)

If finding a piece of hardened glass seems a problem (I was dissapointed I couldn't buy it in a regular construction market in The Netherlands), get a glass shelf instead. That's also hardened/ anti scratch and they do sell these in construction markets.
Yes, its rectangular but the up down motion still flattenes the stone. Just flip the stone half way to change pressure points.

The glass gets scratched, but doesn't seem to dish that much yet after about 20 times of useage.

If dished, replace for 10,-


Glossy, flat (no relief) tiles can be a problem too. First of all they get mostly sold per box, meaning there is 5 or 10 in it. And glossy/flat tiles arent always in the stores. Seems to be a fashion thingy over the years.


----------



## r0bz (Oct 22, 2022)

Kawa said:


> If finding a piece of hardened glass seems a problem (I was dissapointed I couldn't buy it in a regular construction market in The Netherlands), get a glass shelf instead. That's also hardened/ anti scratch and they do sell these in construction markets.
> Yes, its rectangular but the up down motion still flattenes the stone. Just flip the stone half way to change pressure points.
> 
> The glass gets scratched, but doesn't seem to dish that much yet after about 20 times of useage.
> ...


i have a couple of floor tiles what kind of tiles are you talking about can you send a picture ?
you use silicon carbide with teh glass shelf ?


----------



## stringer (Oct 22, 2022)

r0bz said:


> i have a couple of floor tiles what kind of tiles are you talking about can you send a picture ?
> you use silicon carbide with teh glass shelf ?


Any hard flat surface will work. Granite, slate, glass, floor, counter, tile, it doesn't really matter. If you are worried that the surface is too soft then you could put a sheet of sandpaper down and the SiC grit on top of that. You could use a piece of wood if you wanted you just have to change the sandpaper sheet when it starts to wear through.


----------



## Kawa (Oct 22, 2022)

r0bz said:


> i have a couple of floor tiles what kind of tiles are you talking about can you send a picture ?
> you use silicon carbide with teh glass shelf ?



Well, most floor tiles arent completely slick/polished/glazed smooth right? People tend to slip on these faster when put on the floor of your house, especially when wet. Most tiles have some structure, relief. These aren't any good if you want a flat surface.

You can easily see or feel your tiles. I'm not talkin microscopic relief or something. You want those glazed tiles, but the most I could find were for walls (toilet, shower) and then dont come in 30cm X 30cm of bigger.


----------



## Legion74 (Oct 23, 2022)

I just buy cheap picture frames from thrift stores and pull the glass out of those. As soon as I notice any dishing I just throw it out and get another for a couple of bucks.


----------



## r0bz (Oct 23, 2022)

inferno said:


> to your economy.
> 
> i dont flatten 500 and down anymore. i just sharpen where the high spots are for a while and then all the sudden its flat again. i mean with low grit stones this is a matter of minutes. and to be honest you HAVE to do this all the time with coarse stones. because otherwise they will dish abnormally much in the middle.


i do not care how fast the stone will be over with i just care about giving the knives the best care i can possibly give ....


----------



## r0bz (Oct 25, 2022)

inferno said:


> to your economy.
> 
> i dont flatten 500 and down anymore. i just sharpen where the high spots are for a while and then all the sudden its flat again. i mean with low grit stones this is a matter of minutes. and to be honest you HAVE to do this all the time with coarse stones. because otherwise they will dish abnormally much in the middle.


@inferno as I use the 120/240 stone 90% of the time for thinning do you think your way of not flattening the stone but rather using the high spots will work ?
and not wrack the knives?


----------



## inferno (Nov 11, 2022)

yes

it has worked building at least 10 knives. so it will work for sharpening them too i guess. 
i like my bevels flat. mirror flat. only the last stone is important. and youir handywork.


----------

