# CCK, Old Hickory & in-laws



## CompE (Dec 17, 2012)

My Chinese in-laws recently visited, and I was very surprised that my mother-in-law was familiar with CCK. She had told me that when she was living in Hong Kong ~40 years ago, CCK was a very famous knife company. Somehow, I had thought that they were just some niche maker that the knife nuts came across, yet my mother-in-law who couldn't tell me the name of any other knife company anywhere, recognized my CCK.

My in-laws have long known for a while to avoid any knife in my kitchen with a wa handle and they avoided my new CCK. But since their last visit, I also bought a new Old Hickory 7" butcher's knife. I bought it to replace a 30+ year-old version of the same knife that my wife had taken with her to college. The old knife is badly rusted and the edge profile has a 1/4" divot 1" from the heel where someone had repeatedly banged it into a sharpening steel. The new version of the knife cost me ~$10 and about 10 hours work so far. Being carbon steel I got the edge to shaving sharp. My mother-in-law recognized the new one as the old one that used to be in her kitchen and she used it to make stuffed eggplant. My mother-in-law's method for measuring the depth of the split has always been to use her finger to feel the edge of the knife when it made it to the right depth. As you could probably imagine, she didn't realize that she had a deep cut in her finger until she reached for the second piece and saw that she was bleeding all over it. I only found out about it after she had already bandaged herself up and was asking me to identify the dull knives in the block.

BTW, back to CCK, I've only been able to find a select variety of their knives and I came across this site in China that ships worldwide:
http://www.chefsmall.net/Chinese-Knives
They carry every cleaver and butcher's knife on the CCK "Chinese Knife" webpage, and a couple of other knives that are not.


----------



## snowbrother (Dec 17, 2012)

I think I love you now. There have been a couple of their knives that I haven't been able to find anywhere. Thank you for posting this.


----------



## chinacats (Dec 17, 2012)

Nice, thanks!


----------



## EdipisReks (Dec 17, 2012)

CompE said:


> My mother-in-law's method for measuring the depth of the split has always been to use her finger to feel the edge of the knife when it made it to the right depth.



wow, that's sounds like a bad idea.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks for the site Comp.Great to see that cleaver collection.Chinatown here has a large selection of CCK's,I've bought a number of CCK Carbons Veg. & Bone Cleavers.

I have Chinese in my family as well,Antie & 5 Hapa cousins & their kids & grandkids


----------



## chinacats (Dec 17, 2012)

Anyone know the difference in the different choppers (bone, bbq, chopper, kau kong) and just plain cleaver. I have an 1101 slicer and really like it.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Dec 18, 2012)

Your 1101 is a nice cleaver,it is not suited for bones,but good for cutting just about everything else.Not a super lite 1303 at only 270 grams.

My Bone cleaver is the KF 1621 Carbon,Heavy,gets razor sharp wt. convex edge,used it mostly cutting platters of Ginger Chix for banquets.Now that I'm retired don't use it at all.Probably time to pass it on.


----------



## apicius9 (Dec 18, 2012)

keithsaltydog said:


> Thanks for the site Comp.Great to see that cleaver collection.Chinatown here has a large selection of CCK's,I've bought a number of CCK Carbons Veg. & Bone Cleavers.



Nobody ever tells me anything around here  I had no idea, maybe we should meet in Chinatown one of these days and you can show me where, Keith...

Stefan


----------



## Jmadams13 (Dec 18, 2012)

I've seen that site, and almost ordered from them, I just get a weird feeling about them (the company) not sure why. I have seen other sites, under different names selling home goods and whatnot, not knives, with the same physical address and phone number. Has anyone had experience with them?


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Dec 18, 2012)

apicius9 said:


> Nobody ever tells me anything around here  I had no idea, maybe we should meet in Chinatown one of these days and you can show me where, Keith...
> 
> Stefan



Sure Steph, It is on Maunakea St.Used to be called Maunakea Trading Co. Diff. name now.same store.It is like a Reasturant Supply store Chinese style.Woks,Bamboo Stainers,lots of stuff & a big glass counter case wt. all kinds of cool cleavers.:knife:


----------



## quantumcloud509 (Dec 18, 2012)

keithsaltydog said:


> Your 1101 is a nice cleaver,it is not suited for bones,but good for cutting just about everything else.Not a super lite 1303 at only 270 grams.
> 
> My Bone cleaver is the KF 1621 Carbon,Heavy,gets razor sharp wt. convex edge,used it mostly cutting platters of Ginger Chix for banquets.Now that I'm retired don't use it at all.Probably time to pass it on.



PM sent


----------



## CompE (Dec 18, 2012)

EdipisReks said:


> wow, that's sounds like a bad idea.


Definitely a bad idea if you pick up one of my knives, but who's to say it's so bad if you never use a knife that is sharp enough to puncture skin?



Jmadams13 said:


> I've seen that site, and almost ordered from them, I just get a weird feeling about them (the company) not sure why. I have seen other sites, under different names selling home goods and whatnot, not knives, with the same physical address and phone number. Has anyone had experience with them?


I've always gotten a weird feeling about ordering from websites in China. Here's another one for you:
http://www.cookwarekitchenware.com/knives-chan-chi-kee-c-15_16
Same items, same prices, same postal code, different phone number. Both domains are registered to the same person. I found a post to a forum in Australia where someone claimed that they got a CCK from chefsmall.net, and regarding cookwarekitchenware.com I found this:
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Cookware_Kitchenware
Personally, I'd order from either one but I'd also keep an eye on the credit card account for a while after making and receiving my order.


----------



## CompE (Dec 20, 2012)

FYI.. I sent an e-mail to chefsmall and confirmed that they accept PayPal. Since PayPal takes the customer's side by default in any dispute, and your CC info never makes it to the vendor, it should be as safe an option as any to place an order.

Anyone ordering from either chefsmall or cookwarekitchenware?


----------



## Jmadams13 (Dec 20, 2012)

I might after the 1st. Not sure tho. I'm still a little iffy. I've been burned ordering from Chinese web stores before. As anyone actually purchased from them?


----------



## statusquo (Dec 21, 2012)

Just ordered my mom the extra small and hard to find stainless CCK1915. I will report back with a hopefully intact credit history.



Jmadams13 said:


> I might after the 1st. Not sure tho. I'm still a little iffy. I've been burned ordering from Chinese web stores before. As anyone actually purchased from them?


----------



## brainsausage (Dec 21, 2012)

statusquo said:


> Just ordered my mom the extra small and hard to find stainless CCK1915. I will report back with a hopefully intact credit history.



Please do, I'm very curious about this magical cleaver wonderland...


----------



## mindbender (Dec 22, 2012)

keithsaltydog said:


> Sure Steph, It is on Maunakea St.Used to be called Maunakea Trading Co. Diff. name now.same store.It is like a Reasturant Supply store Chinese style.Woks,Bamboo Stainers,lots of stuff & a big glass counter case wt. all kinds of cool cleavers.:knife:



I'm not sure if they're still there (at least from last weekend's visit to Chinatown). But there's an open indoor market at N. King St. and Kekaulike St. that had a few cleavers for sale there. I don't recall seeing any CCK models, however.

I know that a certain knife sales site isn't welcome around here, but have you tried the Fanatic by you-know-who? I love the fit and finish of that cleaver, and have no regrets over this purchase.


----------



## statusquo (Jan 8, 2013)

My cleavers showed up today. The whole experience was good with no issues whatsoever. Stanley, the owner I presume, was very nice and helpful and actually contacted me to try to talk me out of the CCK1915 as he thought it was too small. I ended up going with the 1914 which is a little taller but the same length (mum is older, smaller and has arthritis in hands). 

Shipping to Canada was $20 for two cleavers and Stanley indicated on the package that it was a commercial sample, I was pleasantly surprised to not be charged any custom duties. It arrived in under 3 weeks, not bad considering it is coming from China during xmas season. I was given a tracking number via HK Post which is integrated with Canada Post and I was able to continue to track it once it left China. 

Lastly, my cc is still intact and available for me to continue to spend on all kinds of stuff that I just MUST HAVE!


----------



## jimbob (Jan 8, 2013)

Thats good to hear. Am waiting for a 1303 from stanley myself. Peoples iffiness got me a bit worried... I think its just the unfamiliar website layout...


----------



## vicv (Jan 13, 2013)

That's awesome you found that site. I bought my 1301 somewhat locally but they don't carry everything from them. It is a cck store. I really like that 340mm butcher knife. Probably useless to me but it would look good on my magnetic rack. I envy you guys using the big 11xx series. My 1301 is enormous and difficult to use and sharpen being so wide. But the way it effortlessly glides through everything.... Ah


----------



## KitchenNewbie (Jan 4, 2015)

I am new to this forum. Does anyone have problems ordering from chefsmall lately? I placed and paid for an order three days ago without getting a reply from Stanley. Thanks!


----------



## leiatlarge (Jan 5, 2015)

I ordered a 1102 from them around start/mid of December. Took about 3 days for them to acknowledge my order and it was ship via Germany (due to some customs issues I didn't understand). I finally received it in New York ~2.5 weeks after purchase. Hold on tight!


----------



## klaustukas (Jan 5, 2015)

Hello everyone,

I'm also thinking to order thin chinese cleaver for chopping vegetables and other food.

I want carbon steel because I already have stainless steel cleaver. I like chinese kitchen and I cook just at home. I'm thinking about blade ~20-21 cm long and 9-10 cm width and ~2 mm thickness.

I always wanted to try CCK KF1303 but I see that there are more manufacturers like Double Lions, Double Swords, Shibazi not just CCK 

All these manufacturer are from China so I assume that the steel quality and all cleaver quality will be the same but CCK cleavers are more expensive... There are a lot of good comments about CCK KF1303 but maybe they are just because nobody tried other brand cleaver ?

Is it worth to take the risk and save 10-20 $ with Double Lions, Double Swords or Shibazi cleaver ?

Here are the cleavers I'm choosing from:

http://www.chefsmall.net/CCK-Small-Cleaver-Small-Slicer-KF1303-S

http://www.chefsmall.net/Double-Lions-Chinese-Small-Cleaver-Small-CCF609-3

http://www.chefsmall.net/Double-Swords-Chinese-Small-Cleaver-small

http://www.chefsmall.net/Double-Swords-Chinese-Small-Cleaver-Medium

http://www.chefsmall.net/Shibazi-Carbon-Steel-Small-Slicer-BW302-S

http://www.chefsmall.net/Shibazi-Carbon-Steel-Small-Slicer-S210-2-S


I'm looking for any advise !


----------



## chinacats (Jan 5, 2015)

Welcome Klaustukas!

I own a couple of Shibazi cleavers and personally prefer the CCK. That said, the Shibazi appear to be machine manufactured and have better fit and finish. I have a CCK 1103 (22.5 x 11 which is larger than the 1303) that I love: it is rustic and thin but takes a wicked edge and holds it better than people say--still not good retention but again better than their reputation 

The 1303 is a smaller cleaver but extremely thin--I'm not so sure about how popular they are around these parts but for the smaller size I actually prefer like the stainless handled Shibazi. Unfortunately the blade is cheap stainless and won't come close to taking the edge of the CCK's.

Not tried the Lions or the Swords but have seen them pictured around here so hopefully you will hear from some users.


----------



## klaustukas (Jan 6, 2015)

Thank You, chinacats

22,5 x 11 for me looks very big cleaver :wow: and it has 3 mm of blade thickness. 

My current cleaver is 3 mm thickness and second cleaver I want thin so 2 mm I think are the best compatibility between thin blade and solidity. I think 3 mm for slicing vegetables is to thick...

I think I will not make any experiments and I will count on positive comments about CCK KF1303. So it will cost me more but I will have already tested , average size and 2 mm thickness cleaver.

In http://www.chefsmall.net site there are "Kitchen Slicers" and "Cleavers". What do they mean "Slicer" ? I don't see any big difference between them except that "Slicers" has higher blade profile ?


----------



## chinacats (Jan 7, 2015)

klaustukas said:


> Thank You, chinacats
> 
> 22,5 x 11 for me looks very big cleaver :wow: and it has 3 mm of blade thickness.
> 
> ...




Not sure about where you got the specs, but mine is 2.2mm spine above the heel and weighs in at 362g which is extremely light for a large cleaver. This is also as thin as a cleaver can be at this size imo. Good luck with whatever you choose.

Cheers


----------



## leiatlarge (Jan 7, 2015)

klaustukas said:


> In http://www.chefsmall.net site there are "Kitchen Slicers" and "Cleavers". What do they mean "Slicer" ? I don't see any big difference between them except that "Slicers" has higher blade profile ?



I had the same question and asked my local restaurant supply shop that carried CCK. Slicer is exactly as it sounds, it's used for slicing meat and you generally use a slicing motion when cutting with this knife. The blade profile is much thinner than a traditional Chinese cleaver used in restaurants (my 1102 is about ~2.3mm at the heel). You would use it on vegetables and boneless meat, never against a bone. They can make fine small slices and I use it to cut the same food that I normally would use my gyuto for. 

What they're calling cleavers are used much like a traditional Chinese cleaver, it's much thicker throughout and at the heel anywhere between 3-5mm and Chinese chefs tend to use it more often in cleaving motion. Large, hard strikes are expected on this knife but of course you can still slice (just not as finely). I see it used all the time in the Chinese BBQ shops where it's used for cleaving roasted duck, chasui pork, and vegetable. No fine, careful/delicate slicing for these knives. It's about about cleave, cleave, chop, chop, next! For the professional Chinese chef that needs a non-dainty knife that can cleave chicken/duck bone, make quick cuts of meat, and do some vegetable chopping too, this is their all-around go to knife. From I gather most chefs in the Chinatown here go for the #2 size (e.g. 1102, 1902, etc). I would recommend against this type of cleavers if you're not familiar with them and can't handle the weight, they can be over 500g each. They're great for all around but not amazing in any one area. As a home chef, I have a cleaver for cleaving, a nice thin Chinese cleaver and gyuto for cutting and slicing and like that these two functions are separated. I don't want my primary knife to have to take a very obtuse edge just so it won't chip when it cleaves bone.

As for the matter all these knives are made in China. I believe CCK is made in HK and everything else produced in China...someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I personally picked CCK over one of the mainland Chinese brands because I like the idea of CCK having a longer history and more recognition for making Chinese knives. Scientifically though, I don't know if the quality of their carbon steel and heat treatment is any better than their mainland China counterparts...

Hope that's been helpful


----------



## klaustukas (Jan 8, 2015)

Thank You all for information and advices !


----------

