# Fighting words



## 2bApical? (Oct 1, 2019)

Yep, butter, salt and chicken broth are cheating, cheating I say. Worse even than using a diamond plate or belt sander to sharpen. I can't really eat any milk products, got to cut down on sodium and making broth is a pita or expensive and too salty. IMO a real cook should be able to make things taste good without these things. So go ahead, crucify me. I'm ready. What I need is a simple no broth, low sodium receipt for cabbage soup with carrots and whatever, that's edible without too much trouble. I want to have an easy way to eat cabbage and carrots on a near daily basis in a soup. I do not particularly like to cook and don't much care for cabbage but I can get it down. It looks like one of the best vegetables for health. Someone has the opinion that pimenton de la Vera LaDalia smoked paprika is the best smoked paprika. The last smoked paprika I tried was very unimpressive. The only good smoked flavor I've found so far is canned chipotle. I can always get by with a tomato-chipotle based soup but I'd like a couple of alternatives for variety. Thanks, 2bApical?


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## atb (Oct 1, 2019)

Youre an odd guy. Thats cool tho. Im gonna try n help you out here real quick. 
1/4 cup evoo, plus more
1 head savoy cabbage, sliced relatively thin, bout 1/4"
3 large ish gold potatoes, cut into 1" chunks
4 cloves of garlic, sliced thin
1/2 loaf rustic dark brown crusty country bread, ideally a day old. Cut into similar sized cubes as potatoes, OR whole wheat/rye fresh parpadelle cut short, if dried, broken into shards 
(optional if you need extra protein and fiber for your im assuming clogged up ass) 1/2-full can cannelini beans (keep liquid!)

heat oven to 350F and get out a dutch oven or comp.
drizzle bread with generous evoo.
toast in oven until gold-brown not dark at all.
heat pot and oil to medium heat. add garlic and fry until perfumed. no color at all.
add potatoes (if using beans add here with liquid). cover with water or vegetable stock (use less if using beans). bring to bubbling simmer. dont boil. simmer until pots are just cooked through. add cabbage (add pasta here if using) and let go for 2-5 minutes. turn off heat. add bread.
serve with drizzle of oil and chives.


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## 2bApical? (Oct 1, 2019)

Gee thanks for the assumption. How do you think regular green cabbage would hold up in this recipe? So I guess the flavor would come mostly from the bread??


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## atb (Oct 1, 2019)

im just sorry u cant eat dairy. this recipe should still be good tho


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## daveb (Oct 1, 2019)

Easy day making your own chicken stock - then you control the level of sodium. Make sure you include some feets for the gelatinous mouth feel.


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## panda (Oct 1, 2019)

Why would broth be salty unless you add salt?? Are you referring to the premade ones??


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## boomchakabowwow (Oct 1, 2019)

bummer you have dietary limitations. sorry about that.

but i'll play  *please keep in mind i am having fun with you.*

"a real cook"? i'd argue a real cook wouldnt need to ask questions on how to make food with dietary limitations. they would understand how to up their spice game. and making stuff less salty seems like low hanging fruit. dont add salt and cook all your own stuff instead of relying on processed stuff.

a real cook also understands that salt is more than just a seasoning. in some applications, it will tenderize and do sciency stuff. 

and butter? that's just evil cutting out butter. even the unsalted stuff. hehe.

my wife and i have cut way back on salt. the downside? we find some restuarant food inedible. it's so salty!! i think our taste buds have recalibrated.


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## labor of love (Oct 1, 2019)

Butter is healthy for you. Veg oils are what’s unhealthy.


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## 2bApical? (Oct 1, 2019)

boomchakabowwow said:


> bummer you have dietary limitations. sorry about that.
> 
> but i'll play  *please keep in mind i am having fun with you.*
> 
> ...


 A necessary evil, much to my chagrin. The once or twice I had butter in the last 25 years of so it was like heaven. I get like an allergic reaction to milk products. It's flavor or shall I say body to the flavor that I have a hard time with without salt or with very low salt. It's real easy to make inedible low salt food. Years ago when I started to cut back on salt I had a burrito so salty that I had to spit it out. I slammed it on the counter and told them about it. Restaurants have to compete with each other so hype is necessary for them to stay in business. Uping my spice game is what I want to do but it still seems like salt is to often the key unfortunately.


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## 2bApical? (Oct 1, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Butter is healthy for you. Veg oils are what’s unhealthy.


Highly questionable that butter is good for human health. Evidence points to it's insulin sensitivity reducing effects, for a start. EVOO , especially high phenol EVOO has quite a bit of published evidence of it's health promoting and protecting benefits.


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## 2bApical? (Oct 1, 2019)

daveb said:


> Easy day making your own chicken stock - then you control the level of sodium. Make sure you include some feets for the gelatinous mouth feel.


I'm tired and lazy, what can I say. No question homemade chicken stock is the way to go and is a great way to get more vegetables in ones diet in the form of soups.


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## lowercasebill (Oct 1, 2019)

Why not make broth in bulk and freeze? To make up for lack of salt. Use umami rich ingredients. Kombu katsuobushi dried shitake tomato paste. Lots of sweet onions and carrots let it simmer long enough and they will add a lot of sweetness. And the are low sodium bouillon products. I dont know if they are low enough for your needs. Good luck.


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## lowercasebill (Oct 1, 2019)

https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/25737/caldo-verde-portuguese-green-soup/
Here you go. No broth to make. substitute cabbage for kale


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## M1k3 (Oct 1, 2019)

Alongside the above suggestions, lemon juice and vinegar (acids) are another option to help replace salt.


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## labor of love (Oct 1, 2019)

2bApical? said:


> Highly questionable that butter is good for human health. Evidence points to it's insulin sensitivity reducing effects, for a start. EVOO , especially high phenol EVOO has quite a bit of published evidence of it's health promoting and protecting benefits.


Naw. Just reduce carbohydrate intake, pick smarter carbs and build a meal plan around calorie sources that will decrease the impact that carbs and sugar have on spiking insulin levels.


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## McMan (Oct 1, 2019)

Well, since there's got to be cabbage soup, why not put it next to its green cousins (kales)--t's hard to beat Ribolita, just throw in some cabbage too...
https://www.eataly.com/us_en/magazine/eataly-recipes/recipe-ribollita/
https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/simple-ribollita
Portugese kale soup would be a good bet as well (just omit the chourico/linguica and either add cabbage with the kale or add cabbage with the pureed potatoes so that the cabbage is in the base):
https://leitesculinaria.com/7580/recipes-portuguese-kale-soup-caldo-verde.html


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## JoeWheels (Oct 1, 2019)

2bApical? said:


> Yep, butter, salt and chicken broth are cheating, cheating I say. Worse even than using a diamond plate or belt sander to sharpen. I can't really eat any milk products, got to cut down on sodium and making broth is a pita or expensive and too salty. IMO a real cook should be able to make things taste good without these things. So go ahead, crucify me. I'm ready. What I need is a simple no broth, low sodium receipt for cabbage soup with carrots and whatever, that's edible without too much trouble. I want to have an easy way to eat cabbage and carrots on a near daily basis in a soup. I do not particularly like to cook and don't much care for cabbage but I can get it down. It looks like one of the best vegetables for health. Someone has the opinion that pimenton de la Vera LaDalia smoked paprika is the best smoked paprika. The last smoked paprika I tried was very unimpressive. The only good smoked flavor I've found so far is canned chipotle. I can always get by with a tomato-chipotle based soup but I'd like a couple of alternatives for variety. Thanks, 2bApical?



For a buttery flavor in your cabbage soup; simmer half a cup or so of sunflower kernals, then blend them and continue with the rest of your ingredients. The vegans will accuse you of still cheating w butter though.

"Not particularly" liking to cook though, not such a simple fix.


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## 2bApical? (Oct 1, 2019)

JoeWheels said:


> For a buttery flavor in your cabbage soup; simmer half a cup or so of sunflower kernals, then blend them and continue with the rest of your ingredients. The vegans will accuse you of still cheating w butter though.
> 
> "Not particularly" liking to cook though, not such a simple fix.


Not a simple fix for sure but I'm working on it. I might have to break down and make my own chicken stock. One of the cure alls for sure. I'll try the golden balsamic you suggested for the mustard sauce. Can you give me a idea of the proportions of oil, mustard and golden balsamic. por favor? I'm not a big vinegar fan but this particular golden balsamic is reviewed a mild. I have very little experience with the balsamic vinegars. Hopefully I'll like it with salad. Thank for the suggestions. I'll definitely try the sunflower trick.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 2, 2019)

You need some salt it is just processed foods often are loaded with salt & sugar. Eat fresh as much as you can. We eat salads with flaked wild salmon or mahi mahi on top. Vine ripe tomato, Okinawan sweet potato Avocado, fresh madarin orange, broccoli. We make salads a main meal. Also eating fresh fruit is good much better than drinking a lot of juice. These days eat watermelon, cantalope, pineapple as snacks instead of potato chips. Lost weight eating fresh & cutting down on rice and pasta. I make a batch of garlic butter keep in the fridge. As a base for seafood sauces.


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## btbyrd (Oct 2, 2019)

Salt, stock, and butter are delicious. They're not cheating. Excluding them from your cooking is only cheating yourself.


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## Chef Doom (Oct 3, 2019)

2bApical? said:


> I'm tired and lazy, what can I say. No question homemade chicken stock is the way to go and is a great way to get more vegetables in ones diet in the form of soups.


If you are really that tired and lazy just steak raw at room temp or above room temp?


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## 2bApical? (Oct 5, 2019)

btbyrd said:


> Salt, stock, and butter are delicious. They're not cheating. Excluding them from your cooking is only cheating yourself.


Got high blood pressure and something like an allergy to to milk products. Now have a tiny kitchen that's not too pleasant to work in but fresh chicken stock very lightly salted is of course a great thing and would be a big improvement in the enjoyment eating, for sure.


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## labor of love (Oct 5, 2019)

The South beach diet was written by a cardiologist and was originally intended for his patients. Then he found over time that the diet improved most Americans health. It’s truly a great book.


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## YumYumSauce (Oct 7, 2019)

Still don't see how using salt, broth or butter is cheating, unless you're vegan. I do think lots of places and things use too much salt and butter tho.


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## 2bApical? (Oct 9, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Butter is healthy for you. Veg oils are what’s unhealthy.


Butter healthy, think again. Agree with veg. oil. High polyphenol EVOO is the way to go healthwise. 

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/is-butter-really-back-what-the-science-says/


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## NBrewster (Oct 10, 2019)

2bApical? said:


> Butter healthy, think again. Agree with veg. oil. High polyphenol EVOO is the way to go healthwise.
> 
> https://nutritionfacts.org/video/is-butter-really-back-what-the-science-says/



If you want to experiment with dairy, try eating clarified butter instead of plain butter.

My partner is allergic to dairy protein, and we've found that eating ghee/clarified butter is fine.

Speaking of "cheating" you can also just add gelatin packets to your soup if you're too lazy to make your own stock.


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## gman (Oct 15, 2019)

i'm late to the party, but bloody hell man, just make your own chicken stock. not only is it not expensive, if you start buying whole chickens instead of "cheating" by buying pre-cut breasts and thighs, you'll actually be saving money as you collect the bones, and the types of veg you'll throw in with them are all cheap too, onion, celery, carrots, turnips, parsley. the most expensive ingredient will be a cheap bottle of chardonnay, which you can drink half of while the stock simmers.

once you get over the hump of making your own stock, which will taste infinitely better than anything you can buy at the store, suddenly all your soups and sauces will be instantly awesome, and you don't need to use a lot of salt either. i mean, i love salt myself, and it's the easiest way to avoid your soups tasting like dish water, but not the only way. fats and acids can both help there, and guess what, home made chicken broth will have both those things!


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## 2bApical? (Oct 17, 2019)

gman said:


> i'm late to the party, but bloody hell man, just make your own chicken stock. not only is it not expensive, if you start buying whole chickens instead of "cheating" by buying pre-cut breasts and thighs, you'll actually be saving money as you collect the bones, and the types of veg you'll throw in with them are all cheap too, onion, celery, carrots, turnips, parsley. the most expensive ingredient will be a cheap bottle of chardonnay, which you can drink half of while the stock simmers.
> 
> once you get over the hump of making your own stock, which will taste infinitely better than anything you can buy at the store, suddenly all your soups and sauces will be instantly awesome, and you don't need to use a lot of salt either. i mean, i love salt myself, and it's the easiest way to avoid your soups tasting like dish water, but not the only way. fats and acids can both help there, and guess what, home made chicken broth will have both those things!


 Thanks for the encouragement gman. Just a few hours ago I was looking at stock pots. Time to stop being so lazy. No question that chicken stock is a key to better diet pleasure, making eating vegetables easier and the possibility of losing weigh from the possible effect of broth based soups leading to less calorie intake. A near cure all. I'm thinking like 7-8 quart pot not too deep so as to be a bit easier to clean.


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## lowercasebill (Oct 18, 2019)

this is a 7 qt all clad. 8 is minimum for your needs i think. Freezer space is a factor. If you have the space in the freezer go with a 12 qt. Since you were a bit reluctant i worry that you will tire of making small batches regularly. A pressure cooker makes decent stock and much faster. I have 7 qt, 3,4,5,6,10 and 18 gallon pots. Pics on request


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## gman (Oct 18, 2019)

2bApical? said:


> Thanks for the encouragement gman. Just a few hours ago I was looking at stock pots. Time to stop being so lazy. No question that chicken stock is a key to better diet pleasure, making eating vegetables easier and the possibility of losing weigh from the possible effect of broth based soups leading to less calorie intake. A near cure all. I'm thinking like 7-8 quart pot not too deep so as to be a bit easier to clean.



nice!

i currently have 6, 9, and 16 quart stock pots, and could go for a bigger one, but honestly, i got by with the 6 quart pot for many years when just cooking for myself. the important thing is to do it.

the point raised about pressure cookers is also good. they usually aren't very big, but are faster, which could be good if you want to use it all up at once and not take up freezer space with leftovers.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 20, 2019)

You can freeze extra stock in quart size freezer bags. Push out as much air as you can & lay flat. That way you can stack the bags. 

When I use to make stock & sauce at work would use vac. sealer to store service size packs stacked on shelf in walk in freezer. At home use freezer bags don't own a vac. sealer


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## MontezumaBoy (Oct 20, 2019)

Stock = pressure cooker (not stock pot) ... IMO - significantly better product, 1/10 the time, better clarity, etc. .... plus you can do so many other things with it ... 

Still for fun on very lazy days i will do the whole low & slow one bubble at a time thing but really pressure cookers are by far (IMO) the better way ...

Lots and lots of info on the net ... Sucks being food/ingredient challenged though ... although if you were a bit more ambitious in your cooking you would likely find that wasn't as big of an issue as you might think ...


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## Scribbled (Oct 25, 2019)

My rice cooker doubles as a pressure cooker, use it to make soup all the time, though I get a lot of shite from my chinese in-laws who firmly believe soup must be cooked in a clay pot. (There isn’t the word or even concept of stock here in China, it’s all soup). 

if space is a premium one could look into getting a similar high pressure rice cooker, I use a lot of millet and brown rice in mine which is fairy good for diabetics.


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## lowercasebill (Oct 28, 2019)

stock (or poultry Jello)


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## SilverSwarfer (Oct 28, 2019)

Over the years I’ve accumulated LeCreuset and All Clad pots. There’s an opinion this doesn’t matter (which is outrageous to me), but I’ve never fully engaged in the argument because it’s so far moot in my eyes. 

I’m curious to hear what everyone thinks about making stock in an aluminum pot... specifically something science proclaims re: reactivity if aluminum.


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## lowercasebill (Oct 28, 2019)

I wish i had bought less and put the savings towards stainless.. I have 2,3,4 18 stainless 5,6 10 aluminum..
No acid in aluminium.. That said aluminum oxide is very inert. It you dont scrub it with abrasives you are safe. They ship hydofluoric acid in aluminium oxide containers. Rinse it use soap and let the white tarnish build up.


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