# [Vintage chef's knife] Holy Toledo boys!



## Ericfg (Oct 7, 2020)

This just arrived. It was an ebay purchase from a seller who provided fair images, a misspelled brand name "Henkles" and no description of blade length.

It got only two bids, and I expected maybe a 10" blade but probably 8". When it arrived today it measures in a 13 inches! Blade length is 13, not overall length, total is 18.5" 

Anyway, here's some initial images of The Behemoth:


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## Byphy (Oct 7, 2020)

Looks like a fun little restoration project, love me some vintages


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## Ericfg (Oct 7, 2020)

I can't get over the size of this thing.
The handle's ratted but that part I could make out from the seller's images.




Here's some more images:


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## Dave Martell (Oct 7, 2020)

You've got a nice old one there.


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## Ericfg (Oct 7, 2020)

Byphy said:


> Looks like a fun little restoration project, love me some vintages


It's gonna be fun, I hope. But it sure ain't gonna be little!
I've got some bookmatched Indian Rosewood(?) that I may use, or I may go more traditional with some Black Walnut I have.

There's very little edge alteration due to poor sharpening. This image makes it seem a lot more than it is. I'd say it's less than 1mm off.


I just unwound the string and popped off the scales:





Scales came off with minimum pressure; two of the three pins were rusted away. The tang is heavily rusted.


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## Ericfg (Oct 7, 2020)

Holy Solingen is this steel reactive! The tang and part of the blade up to around the logo has been sitting in vinegar (in a ceramic, _German_ bier krug) for less than two hours and the exposed steel is going all rainbow colors! (Doubt I can get a good shot of those colors)

PS. The pins are tiny; like maybe 3/32" (2.4mm.) The scales look like there might have been some sort of rivet head on the pins.


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## daveb (Oct 7, 2020)

Love the handle.


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## Ericfg (Oct 7, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> Holy Solingen is this steel reactive! the exposed steel is going all rainbow colors! (Doubt I can get a good shot of those colors)



I lied. These images actually came out pretty realistic:


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## Ericfg (Oct 7, 2020)

daveb said:


> Love the handle.



My other question is: "How can I rehabilitate the old scales?" I'd like to save them for the pattern of the new scales. And I's also like to identify the wood that was used for them.
Acetone soak? Mineral oil soak?


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## Ericfg (Oct 7, 2020)

One more question; I need a vessel with which to soak the whole length of the knife in vinegar at one time.
I'm a pro cook with access to stainless steel "hotel pans" that will fit this knife pretty well. If I place the super-reactional, carbon steel blade in a vinegar bath in a stainless steel pan will something negative happen?

Or should I look for something plastic/acrylic to bathe the blade in the acidic vinegar?


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## daveb (Oct 7, 2020)

Do you have a 12x18 cambro? Would be my first choice.

A long 3rd pan or meatloaf pan would work. Not sure about the stainless pan, carbon blade, and acid - but it probably wouldn't blow up.


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## Ericfg (Oct 7, 2020)

So, soak scrub, soak scrub, soak scrub. It's starting to look like a scene from 'Dexter'.



As a pro cook for 20+ years I usually use an 8" blade for the bigger stuff.
Here's my Miyabi Koh as a comparison:



Same maker, but about 100 years difference.

Do you think this huge knife, at 13x3, was intended for use either commercially or at home?
Or was it just a piece of Solingen propaganda?

I'd love to rehab this knife but it is just way too big to be used commercially, much less at home.


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## juice (Oct 7, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> I'd love to rehab this knife but it is just way too big to be used commercially, much less at home.


I know a bloke...


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## Ericfg (Oct 7, 2020)

juice said:


> I know a bloke...


I'm going to bed just now, probably as you are just waking up on the other side of the world.... so I'm all sorts of out of it. But if your friend were to PM me what would he say, do you recon?


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## M1k3 (Oct 7, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> I'm going to bed just now, probably as you are just waking up on the other side of the world.... so I'm all sorts of out of it. But if your friend were to PM me what would he say, do you recon?


"Flap disc grinder."


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## cotedupy (Oct 7, 2020)

That's a very cool project!

I've seen a few threads/pics with older knives that are this size, so definitely something that was intended for use, rather than just a curiosity. Often I believe they were quite thick (dunno if yours is?) and were used as lobster splitters...

Course with that length as well it gives you the possibility of taking off some of the finger guard and re-shaping to correct some of the over-steeling it looks like it's had in the belly. Tho that'd obviously take a lot of grinding work! (But if as you say those pics are a little deceiving then maybe not, and just leave as is).


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## juice (Oct 7, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> But if your friend were to PM me what would he say, do you recon?





M1k3 said:


> "Flap disc grinder."


Yeah, that's pretty much what they'd say, I reckon :-D

Let's check - @Gregmega? How we doing?


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## Gregmega (Oct 8, 2020)

juice said:


> Yeah, that's pretty much what they'd say, I reckon :-D
> 
> Let's check - @Gregmega? How we doing?


Ooooooh yessss. Crusty barn find. Good stuff.


Planning to do the restoration alone? Or do you have any tools? Could be really slick cleaned up. I did a 330 Masamoto rehab. Such a great tool.


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 8, 2020)

Looks like we’re kindred spirits. I just took off the band-aid handle. Now 110 grams lighter.


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 8, 2020)

Also, at 280x58 it’s perfect for home use.


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## Benuser (Oct 8, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Also, at 280x58 it’s perfect for home use.


It will take very little time to get used to it. Your grip will move forward.


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## juice (Oct 8, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Also, at 280x58 it’s perfect for home use.


Sure, but most of us don't live in Gripsholm Castle...


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## Benuser (Oct 8, 2020)

juice said:


> Sure, but most of us don't live in Gripsholm Castle...


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 8, 2020)

juice said:


> Sure, but most of us don't live in Gripsholm Castle...


Speak for yourself!


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## Ericfg (Oct 8, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Looks like we’re kindred spirits. I just took of the band-aid handle. Now 110 grams lighter.


I think I saw that post last night; those were nearly identical handle-jobs! 
All jokes aside that's a beautiful F.Dick knife! Looks to be an early one, any idea of it's age?


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## Ericfg (Oct 8, 2020)

cotedupy said:


> That's a very cool project!


Thanks! It's gonna be bigger than I imagined.



> I've seen a few threads/pics with older knives that are this size, so definitely something that was intended for use, rather than just a curiosity. Often I believe they were quite thick (dunno if yours is?) and were used as lobster splitters...


It's a whopping 9mm thick just in front of the bolster! The bolster itself is 19mm!
What's left of the tang's about 4.5mm-2.5mm from the bolster then towards the end of the tang.
This thing is less of a lobster splitter and more like a whale splitter.


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## Ericfg (Oct 8, 2020)

Gregmega said:


> Ooooooh yessss. Crusty barn find. Good stuff. Planning to do the restoration alone? Or do you have any tools? Could be really slick cleaned up. I did a 330 Masamoto rehab. Such a great tool.


I have minimal tools. I don't plan on altering the blade much, other than straightening the edge... The blade's got some heavy pitting and stone scratches in spots. Dunno what I'm gonna do there. I'll show when I get to that stage.


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## birdsfan (Oct 8, 2020)

There are a lot of YT videos on the topic of rust removal and blade restoration. For most of them, it was a matter of soaking in an acidic solution, and a diligent application of sandpaper and elbow grease. Da_mich just posted a thread on cleaver restoration.






Restoration Sakai Kikumori Chinese Style Cleaver


Hello, maybe it´s interesting for someone who like full restore his knife too. Details: Manufacturer: Sakai Kikumori 堺菊守 Modell: Y-6104 Gokujyo Steel: Yasuki White Steel #2 Video:




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## Ericfg (Oct 8, 2020)

Here's some specs: The blade itself weighs 463g. 1.02lbs. 16.3oz. What's left of the scales: 46g. 0.13lbs. 2.0oz.

Some spine shots:






edit: dunno why I get the same image posted twice.


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 8, 2020)

Lol @Ericfg mine is even heavier


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 8, 2020)

That taper is amazing!


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## Taz575 (Oct 8, 2020)

A friend of mine gave me a blank that is similarly massive many years ago. I gotta dig around and see if I can find it!


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## Ericfg (Oct 8, 2020)

A little more work this morning; 
I had the tang soaking in vinegar overnight. 'Distilled White Vinegar' BTW. Then I scraped and wire-brushed the tang and it's coming very clean.
Below I rubbed one side of the blade with a very worn/used green scrubby pad, and just wiped the other side with a vinegar-dampened paper towel.


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## Ericfg (Oct 8, 2020)

Taz575 said:


> A friend of mine gave me a blank that is similarly massive many years ago. I gotta dig around and see if I can find it!


Please do post if you can find it.


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## Taz575 (Oct 8, 2020)

I think it's in my old work shop/shed unless I threw it out? I will check tonight. IIRC, I started to regrind/thin it to make it useable, but didn't get very far.


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## Gregmega (Oct 8, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Looks like we’re kindred spirits. I just took off the band-aid handle. Now 110 grams lighter.
> View attachment 97775


Tell me that’s not a Kato profile, I mean come on


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 8, 2020)

Gregmega said:


> Tell me that’s not a Kato profile, I mean come on


I’ve never touched a Kato. But to me it seems like a Kato wh profile. That’s why I will turn it into a Kato diy a l @ma_sha1. The Dickato is in the making!


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## billyO (Oct 8, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> It's a whopping 9mm thick just in front of the bolster!


Oy! This past winter I made a friend a custom knife that he wanted to butcher turkeys. He asked for 5mm spine and I thought that was huge. Most of my blades end up with a 2-3mm spine.


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## Ericfg (Oct 9, 2020)

billyO said:


> Oy! He asked for 5mm spine and I thought that was huge. Most of my blades end up with a 2-3mm spine.


I've got a pretty standard size cleaver, a Dexter, that's about 6.5" by 4" with a 5mm spine and that's a beast.



I understand heft is a part of the cleaver's profile but anything over your 2-3mm range, for a chef/gyuto profile, is a bit much. These days anyways.
Evidently back in the day a 9mm spine was 'just another day at the office.'


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## Benuser (Oct 9, 2020)

With traditionally forged vintages the spine begins with 6 to 9 millimetres for a chef's knife.


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## VicVox72 (Oct 10, 2020)

With that taper, you can use the heel to go through beef bones and the tip to do the horizontal cuts on garlic


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## Ericfg (Oct 10, 2020)

OK, some more stuff on The Behemoth: These sharpening stone scratches and rust pitting in the yellow 'circle'; 80(+/-) grit sandpaper (at 90 degrees) and up to remove the worst of the abuse? I don't need it all gone, just move to the background somewhat.


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## Taz575 (Oct 10, 2020)

I found mine! No where near as thick at the bolster as yours, I will get some pics tomorrow.


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## Ericfg (Oct 11, 2020)

As for the tang; after a few vinegar soaks and scrubbings with a wire brush I've applied some mineral oil and it seems to be nice and stable. It's still very rough, though; very heavily pitted. Most of the damage occurred under the handle and I think I've stopped the oxidation. But I really don't want to remove any more material before I start restoration.
What do you guys and gals think?




That's the one remaining pin casting a shadow on the tang in the lower right of the image. That'll be removed, of course.


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## billyO (Oct 11, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> What do you guys and gals think?


So the tang tapers from 4.5mm-2.5mm? You could leave it as is, but you'll still see the pitting where the tang meets the handle scales after glue up. IMO, there's enough material there that you could file/sand the surfaces smooth/flat for a cleaner fit and joint. You don't have to remove all the pitting, only along the perimeter.


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## Benuser (Oct 11, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> OK, some more stuff on The Behemoth: These sharpening stone scratches and rust pitting in the yellow 'circle'; 80(+/-) grit sandpaper (at 90 degrees) and up to remove the worst of the abuse? I don't need it all gone, just move to the background somewhat.View attachment 98165


Don't worry. You may even it out on the entire face. Start with a low grit as close as possible to the one that caused the scratches. Goes very fast and easily with these Bosch pads. No exact grit available because European FEPA standards ignore this medium. My guess is they go from P240 to 800. Comfort is important, mirror finish much less, as you will get a new patina on it.


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## Taz575 (Oct 11, 2020)

Found mine! I started working on the grind and relieving the bolster at the heel many years ago, bit never finished it.


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## Benuser (Oct 11, 2020)

Taz575 said:


> Found mine! I started working on the grind and relieving the bolster at the heel many years ago, bit never finished it.
> View attachment 98243
> View attachment 98244


Nice! Any idea what it is?


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## Taz575 (Oct 11, 2020)

No idea! A friend of mine found it in the back of his machine shop several years ago when they were cleaning the shop and gave it to me. I started regrinding it, but never finished it up.


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## Benuser (Oct 11, 2020)

Taz575 said:


> No idea! A friend of mine found it in the back of his machine shop several years ago when they were cleaning the shop and gave it to me. I started regrinding it, but never finished it up.


Nice reduction of the fingerguard. 
Same idea as here.


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## Ericfg (Oct 11, 2020)

Thankfully my heel is still pretty much usable. I don't think too much of the edge has been ground away over the years due to sharpening although the edge is not perfectly straight anymore.


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## Benuser (Oct 12, 2020)

A slight 'reverse belly' is very common. Is related to steeling, that is likely to have caused some fatigue at the edge. So, you anyway have to remove a bit of steel.


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## Ericfg (Oct 12, 2020)

Do we normally flatten and re-sharpen the edge _after _re-handling? Or does it matter when we do it?


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## Carl Kotte (Oct 12, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> Do we normally flatten and re-sharpen the edge _after _re-handling? Or does it matter when we do it?


It’s nice if the edge is blunt when you’re working on a knife (don’t ask How I know ).


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## Ericfg (Oct 12, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> It’s nice if the edge is blunt when you’re working on a knife (don’t ask How I know ).


That makes perfect sense; safety first. I will tape off the edge and tip when I work on the handle, spine and bolster, certainly.


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## Taz575 (Oct 12, 2020)

I am opposite. I often work on premade/sharpened knives, so I always wrap the blade in a ton of tape. I would prefer to do the bulk of the blade work (except final sharpening) before the handle so I can get the blade where I want it, get the choil and spine cleaned up, etc before the handle goes on. Much easier to work those areas without a handle on to worry about! I would do the heel relief and edge flattening and stuff before the rehandle and do the sharpening after the rehandle.


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## Ericfg (Oct 12, 2020)

Taz575 said:


> I would do the heel relief and edge flattening and stuff before the rehandle and do the sharpening after the rehandle.


I like that idea. I plan on using some quality wood for the new handle so I don't want to mess up that handle when grinding &c.


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## Taz575 (Oct 12, 2020)

Do you have wood yet? I can look around my shop and see if I have something I can send you. I can't work non stabilized wood anymore, so I gotta get rid of what I have. Stabilized wood, G10, Micarta, leather and bone are good to go!


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## Ericfg (Oct 12, 2020)

Taz575 said:


> Do you have wood yet? I can look around my shop and see if I have something I can send you. I can't work non stabilized wood anymore, so I gotta get rid of what I have. Stabilized wood, G10, Micarta, leather and bone are good to go!


I do have some wood. 'Indian Rosewood' I think?

I thank you sincerely for your offer. You're a good person for doing that.

I've some nice hardwoods and last month I paid a guy to rip them to optimal scale size for me. He had a bunch of nice scraps that he wanted to get rid of and I finally said 'yes' to that rosewood. So I 'got wood'. Thanks again.

The thing is now I'd like to add a bit of the old handle when I make the new scales. There's not much to work with but I may try to cut some thin strips from the old handle and add them as a ferrule, or somewhere else when I re-handle.

Old scale pix:


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## Ericfg (Oct 19, 2020)

FYI: this project is on the backburner for the moment.
Hopefully this year I can update.


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## Ericfg (Dec 24, 2020)

Here it is at about 99%. Still got to straighten the edge. Excuse the small onion stains on it; took it to work to show off, and to use for the first time in who knows how many years.
A couple before and after shots:


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## Ericfg (Dec 24, 2020)

And a couple more images. I'm _very _happy with the handle. Note that dark bit of wood by the bolster? It's part of the original handle. I wanted to save a bit of it for old times sake.


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