# Help Shopping for Natural Stones!?? Cheap though!



## TEWNCfarms (Apr 23, 2018)

So I Definitely think Im going to buy this one, this will be my medium grit one... https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/263597442409
what do you think?

Im trying to find a 4000-+ and 8000-+, any suggestions?

What are the names in Japanese of the different grades of natural stones? The different grits


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## valgard (Apr 23, 2018)

Following are recommendations based on MY personal taste and experience, not intended as any sage advise.

4000+ (more like 5000) get an Aizu, that's my must have Jnat. If you want lower grit get a red aoto (less chance of a dub than with blue ones) but these are very soft stones so I'm not a big fan, the green ones are supposed to be a bit harder.

8000+ there's A LOT to choose from. A lot of medium hard to hard (lvl 3.5-4) stones will finish in that 8K-10K range. Feedback will be different and some stones will leave more bite than others but a lot in that range leaves a very nice edge. My personal favourites are (particular stones I own) a Shinden suita, an Okudo suita (quite a few have been really good), and an Narutaki Iromono tomae. But as I said, I have probably had 7-8 suitas I love as finishers in that range plus a hard uchi, 3-4 tomae, 1 aisa... you get the idea.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 23, 2018)

valgard said:


> Following are recommendations based on MY personal taste and experience, not intended as any sage advise.
> 
> 4000+ (more like 5000) get an Aizu, that's my must have Jnat. If you want lower grit get a red aoto (less chance of a dub than with blue ones) but these are very soft stones so I'm not a big fan, the green ones are supposed to be a bit harder.
> 
> 8000+ there's A LOT to choose from. A lot of medium hard to hard (lvl 3.5-4) stones will finish in that 8K-10K range. Feedback will be different and some stones will leave more bite than others but a lot in that range leaves a very nice edge. My personal favourites are (particular stones I own) a Shinden suita, an Okudo suita (quite a few have been really good), and an Narutaki Iromono tomae. But as I said, I have probably had 7-8 suitas I love as finishers in that range plus a hard uchi, 3-4 tomae, 1 aisa... you get the idea.



Awesome I appreciate it!

What do you think about the stone I posted?

Also whats the price range on your suggestions?


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## K813zra (Apr 23, 2018)

I like cheap blue/grey aoto stones just fine and have never got what I would call a dud. They are just coarser than what I think most would prefer in the 2-4k range and normally closer to the 2k end of things. Not the supposed stones of yesteryear that were in the 3-5k range I guess. But they have good feedback, are soft and muddy, fun to use and normally very cheap. A good thrill type stone on a small budget. 

Having said that, I agree with the Aizu for a one and done mid to upper mid range stone. My best Aizu is probably 4-5k but my other three are all closer to 3k.

As for finishing stones I like 'em on the soft side for feel but on the aggressive side for performances. I would go with performance over feel every time though. I have always been happy with anything Ohira that I have tried. A few suita and half a dozen tomae of varying type. Seems all of mine have been medium hard, fast cutting and in the probably 4-6k range with a few rounding 8k bit with a fair amount of bite.

On the other hand I love the feel of softer stones like my Takashima, which is probably right around 6-8k on the edge, leaves a good kasumi and is silky smooth in use. However not enough bite left on the edge, for me. 

Just so many ways you can go here and most of them based on preference. Enjoy the ride!

Edit: The stone you link to is an Amakusa and stones from that mine have proven, to me, to be the most inconsistent of any I have used. They are cheap and most of them are quite usable and I have one that I love a lot but I went through 12 and have kept only one. I have had amakusa that are granite hard, don't auto slurry and seem to not cut unless you hit them with a diamond plate first. I have kept my very soft (HS-18 on a Watanabe scale) Amaksusa that is very, very aggressive as a natural bevel setter and for that I love it. But I have owned everything between as well. For the price I think it is worth the gamble, just keep your expectations realistic. And if you want a higher quality one go with Watanabe stones that he has tested. He has nicer Binsui than others I have used as well.


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## valgard (Apr 23, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Awesome I appreciate it!
> 
> What do you think about the stone I posted?
> 
> Also whats the price range on your suggestions?



I don't own an amakusa, but all I have read leads me to think it's not the stone I would recommend to start a Jnat collection (hopefully you will get input from several owners so you can compile your impressions but at the same time it's cheap enough it's not scary to just go and try). Get an Aizu and/or a soft finisher (typically 6-7K) for a much more sure fire pleasant starting experience would be my advice if you plan to polish too, if you don't care to polish a harder finisher would be fine too as long as it's a fast one.

As for the range of the stones I suggested before:

Aizu: for the most normal size they come in (190-200x60-70x20mm roughly), about $100-$140 from BST, starting at like $170 from vendors like Watanabe. 

For a finisher it's a wide open field, name recognition, size, shape, and appearance often influence the price more than performance does. You need to first figure out what are your priorities while shopping (which of the above factors are important for you and whether polishing is important besides edge) before you can even start to narrow down a price range. You can have a small kappa in a nondescript tan colour and unknown mine that performs excellent for $50, it goes from there to 4 figures as you add in the factors above mentioned.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 23, 2018)

K813zra said:


> I like cheap blue/grey aoto stones just fine and have never got what I would call a dud. They are just coarser than what I think most would prefer in the 2-4k range and normally closer to the 2k end of things. Not the supposed stones of yesteryear that were in the 3-5k range I guess. But they have good feedback, are soft and muddy, fun to use and normally very cheap. A good thrill type stone on a small budget.
> 
> Having said that, I agree with the Aizu for a one and done mid to upper mid range stone. My best Aizu is probably 4-5k but my other three are all closer to 3k.
> 
> ...



Awesome I really appreciate it!!!

So on http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/wetstone1.htm are the $200-1500? It says like 22,000 yen. I just cant spend that much on a stone! I was thinking $50 was a lot, then decided Maybe I could do $100, but $200 is Ridiculous for me to buy with my salary! Like those Ohiras they are too expensive for me


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 23, 2018)

valgard said:


> I don't own an amakusa, but all I have read leads me to think it's not the stone I would recommend to start a Jnat collection (hopefully you will get input from several owners so you can compile your impressions but at the same time it's cheap enough it's not scary to just go and try). Get an Aizu and/or a soft finisher (typically 6-7K) for a much more sure fire pleasant starting experience would be my advice if you plan to polish too, if you don't care to polish a harder finisher would be fine too as long as it's a fast one.
> 
> As for the range of the stones I suggested before:
> 
> ...



Like this one? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202270638185
What is BTS?


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## valgard (Apr 23, 2018)

yep.

BST is the Buy Sell Trade subforum here.


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## Jovidah (Apr 23, 2018)

Here's a hint... if you're trying to stay within some kind of a budget, stick to synthethics. Even a lot of professionals in Japan use them, so it's not like they're complete crap...


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## Xenif (Apr 23, 2018)

As a noob that just purchased his fourth Jnat, may I suggest more reading and research before spending your money. There are a ton of threads related to Jnats on this forum, discussions on synth vs natural, edge, polish, buying, etc. As mentioned earlier, are you looking for purely the edge or are you thinking of polishing as well? 



TEWNCfarms said:


> What are the names in Japanese of the different grades of natural stones? The different grits



You will find jnats are listed as Mine/Strata/description/hardness. And within Hardness, different vendors have diffrent systems as well (common one as the watanabe scale, aframes scale, japnese vendors usually 1-5lvl scale)

BST is probably the best place to look as they usually include, pictures, description, user(s) review, basically more reasonable price with less mystery


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## Matus (Apr 23, 2018)

If you want to have a chance to get a decent stone for around $100 than probably your only chance is to try your luck on buyee, but you really need first to learn much more about the subject (including hand-on experience) to have any chance (and you will still be at a risk of getting poor quality stone). But the bottom line is - to gaing some knowledge and experience in natural stones is really not cheap and might better be left for later if you are on a tight budged. Trying BST is probably the better idea.


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## K813zra (Apr 23, 2018)

Actually, rather than gambling my suggestions is to go with a "koppa" (small or off cut stone) or "san" (narrow stone) or even a type 100 (slightly smaller than brick) from Japanese Natural Stones or from B/S/T. I have seen Max offer a lot of stones in the $75-90 range over the past few years because they were oddly shapen, narrow, short or thin and I have bought many of them myself. 

I do not have loads of money either so I feel where you are coming from and I often have to sell one knife or stone to buy another or I have to save up over time and by that time the stone I want is gone. It sucks but with dalliance and patience you can find what you want and save up for a good one. Even if that means going with a smaller or oddly shaped stone but one that is still of good quality.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 23, 2018)

valgard said:


> yep.
> 
> BST is the Buy Sell Trade subforum here.


Ohhh okay cool thanks!



Jovidah said:


> Here's a hint... if you're trying to stay within some kind of a budget, stick to synthethics. Even a lot of professionals in Japan use them, so it's not like they're complete crap...


Haha yeah I know Im torn!


Xenif said:


> As a noob that just purchased his fourth Jnat, may I suggest more reading and research before spending your money. There are a ton of threads related to Jnats on this forum, discussions on synth vs natural, edge, polish, buying, etc. As mentioned earlier, are you looking for purely the edge or are you thinking of polishing as well?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When you all are asking about polishing what do you mean? Like a polished edge? Or polishing the entire knife? Eventually I will polish it but for now Im just sharpening and polishing only the edge


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## valgard (Apr 23, 2018)

polishing as in getting a kasumi finish on san mai wide bevel knives.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 23, 2018)

valgard said:


> polishing as in getting a kasumi finish on san mai wide bevel knives.



This is a foreign language to me! Ill have to do some research...


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## niwaki-boy (Apr 23, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> This is a foreign language to me! Ill have to do some research...



Kasumi is the 'mist' finish on the wide bevel (the part where your damascus lives). San mai describes the way the knife is constructed. Your blade is San mai. The technique involves sandwiching the core steel (the cutting steel) between two outer layers, this would be the damascus part. This polishing can be done in many levels between a basic kasumi (mist) all the way to full on mirror. Different stones will get different results and also will react differently with various steels. Its possible to go mental here &#128579;
Also what Kit said above is a very valid point about dipping your toes in the waters. Small pieces like koppas can be purchased for reasonable price, they just wont be brick shaped. I got started that way, for it was a small piece of Hakka that spun my head, then an inexpensive piece of Aiiwatani. Right bout there I tripped into the rabbit hole...


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## Jovidah (Apr 23, 2018)

Here's a hint... if you don't even know what kasumi is maybe you shouldn't run off to buy JNats. IMO when you're still in the learning phase and (by your own admittance) on a budget it makes little sense to go for naturals. They're expensive. 
Watanabe makes a living selling knives... what does he use for his sharpening? Shapton + Kitayama. Murray Carter makes a living selling knives. What does he use? King 1k + 6k. Large swaths of professional sharpeners use synthetics. You can achieve excellent results and astounding edges with very modest and affordable stones. It's silly to think that naturals are a necessity to get a proper sharp blade. They're a luxury... for people who have the disposable income to afford them...

Buying small stones to 'start out' might work for razors, but IMO sharpening on small stones just sucks with knives. The bigger the better.


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## K813zra (Apr 23, 2018)

Meh, I rarely notice the difference between a 180x60 vs a 205x75mm stone in use. I do notice the HUGE price difference at times though. 

Aside from that I do agree. The set budget is low even for synthetic stones let alone naturals.


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## tgfencer (Apr 23, 2018)

Jovidah said:


> Here's a hint... if you don't even know what kasumi is maybe you shouldn't run off to buy JNats. IMO when you're still in the learning phase and (by your own admittance) on a budget it makes little sense to go for naturals. They're expensive.
> Watanabe makes a living selling knives... what does he use for his sharpening? Shapton + Kitayama. Murray Carter makes a living selling knives. What does he use? King 1k + 6k. Large swaths of professional sharpeners use synthetics. You can achieve excellent results and astounding edges with very modest and affordable stones



lus1: Get good at sharpening and polishing on synthetics. Once you can get a repeatable result and can see the limitations and positives of those stones then start looking at jnats.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 23, 2018)

niwaki-boy said:


> Kasumi is the 'mist' finish on the wide bevel (the part where your damascus lives). San mai describes the way the knife is constructed. Your blade is San mai. The technique involves sandwiching the core steel (the cutting steel) between two outer layers, this would be the damascus part. This polishing can be done in many levels between a basic kasumi (mist) all the way to full on mirror. Different stones will get different results and also will react differently with various steels. Its possible to go mental here &#128579;
> Also what Kit said above is a very valid point about dipping your toes in the waters. Small pieces like koppas can be purchased for reasonable price, they just wont be brick shaped. I got started that way, for it was a small piece of Hakka that spun my head, then an inexpensive piece of Aiiwatani. Right bout there I tripped into the rabbit hole...


Ahhh I see, thanks! I've got a couple ebay binsuis that i'm looking at, if on falls through then i'll use that as my starting point. Honestly I am not ever really looking to spend hundreds of dollars on a stone, hence why maybe nattys aren't for me. But we shall see.


Jovidah said:


> Here's a hint... if you don't even know what kasumi is maybe you shouldn't run off to buy JNats. IMO when you're still in the learning phase and (by your own admittance) on a budget it makes little sense to go for naturals. They're expensive.
> Watanabe makes a living selling knives... what does he use for his sharpening? Shapton + Kitayama. Murray Carter makes a living selling knives. What does he use? King 1k + 6k. Large swaths of professional sharpeners use synthetics. You can achieve excellent results and astounding edges with very modest and affordable stones. It's silly to think that naturals are a necessity to get a proper sharp blade. They're a luxury... for people who have the disposable income to afford them...
> 
> Buying small stones to 'start out' might work for razors, but IMO sharpening on small stones just sucks with knives. The bigger the better.


ohh see I didn't realize that especially about Watanabe, I did realize and liked that about Carter where he says "it's the technique not the tools" and how he uses King stones, and he doesn't even use a flattener, he says you should just use that certain area that is higher than others to flatten in out, and you don't waste any stone. And yeah, I definitely do Not want a stone Less than 6"x2" it really does become kind of a pain. But you know thinking about it, they had to use small stones for Swords... Thanks for the help with everything



K813zra said:


> Meh, I rarely notice the difference between a 180x60 vs a 205x75mm stone in use. I do notice the HUGE price difference at times though.
> 
> Aside from that I do agree. The set budget is low even for synthetic stones let alone naturals.


Yeah I mean, i'm willing to spend like $100 At Most for a Stone, but would Much rather prefer to spend like $30 give or take.




tgfencer said:


> lus1: Get good at sharpening and polishing on synthetics. Once you can get a repeatable result and can see the limitations and positives of those stones then start looking at jnats.


I have pretty much gotten down the basics and getting repeatable results; definitely the sharpest knives i've ever used, as well everyone I work with agrees. But I Am going to Have to buy a new 1000-+grit stone soon, because my King 1000/6000 is wearing down considerably on the 1K side. So i'm going to buy a preferably 1200 stone, and these binsuis seem to be calling my name! I would post a link but I was advised not to, and one of them could definitely be snagged before I get to it. But if/once I buy it i'll post the details about it. Thanks everyone for your help!


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## daveb (Apr 23, 2018)

I get the sense that you don't want to hear it and are not going to listen to it but I'll echo what the smart kids have said above. Synthetic. You would be much better served with even a Bestor 1200 (approx $50) than dropping a hundred on an unknown Jnat. 

My daddy used to tell me I had champagne tastes with a beer budget. Are we related?


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 23, 2018)

daveb said:


> I get the sense that you don't want to hear it and are not going to listen to it but I'll echo what the smart kids have said above. Synthetic. You would be much better served with even a Bestor 1200 (approx $50) than dropping a hundred on an unknown Jnat.
> 
> My daddy used to tell me I had champagne tastes with a beer budget. Are we related?



Haha I love that! I definitely think we might be!

Interesting you say that... Ive been really contemplating the Bester 1200!


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## HRC_64 (Apr 24, 2018)

I'd say spend maybe 15-20%
of you knife on stones to keep it useful.


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## Grunt173 (Apr 24, 2018)

Yes,the Bester 1200 is a nice stone.When I first got into sharpening,it was one of the most highly recommended so I purchased one.I am not sorry.


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## Badgertooth (Apr 24, 2018)

Jovidah said:


> Here's a hint... if you don't even know what kasumi is maybe you shouldn't run off to buy JNats. IMO when you're still in the learning phase and (by your own admittance) on a budget it makes little sense to go for naturals. They're expensive.
> Watanabe makes a living selling knives... what does he use for his sharpening? Shapton + Kitayama. Murray Carter makes a living selling knives. What does he use? King 1k + 6k. Large swaths of professional sharpeners use synthetics. You can achieve excellent results and astounding edges with very modest and affordable stones. It's silly to think that naturals are a necessity to get a proper sharp blade. They're a luxury... for people who have the disposable income to afford them...
> 
> Buying small stones to 'start out' might work for razors, but IMO sharpening on small stones just sucks with knives. The bigger the better.



Truthbombs


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## Grunt173 (Apr 24, 2018)

Yes,but don't some of us have to learn things the hard way? I do all the time and have since I was a kid.My dad told me so.I am 71 now and still doing things the hard way.I'm broke too.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 24, 2018)

Grunt173 said:


> Yes,the Bester 1200 is a nice stone.When I first got into sharpening,it was one of the most highly recommended so I purchased one.I am not sorry.


Nice glad to hear! Does it create any sort of slurry? Or do you have to use a nagura?


Grunt173 said:


> Yes,but don't some of us have to learn things the hard way? I do all the time and have since I was a kid.My dad told me so.I am 71 now and still doing things the hard way.I'm broke too.


Haha Im the same way! Ill be told how to do something and Ill go find some obscure way on the internet and then when it doesnt work Im like son of a! I should have listened!

So needless to say I bought that natural stone from eBay! Only $27 though and for $4 more I get a Natural Nagura, we shall see how it is! haha


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## K813zra (Apr 24, 2018)

Grunt173 said:


> Yes,but don't some of us have to learn things the hard way? I do all the time and have since I was a kid.My dad told me so.I am 71 now and still doing things the hard way.I'm broke too.



Meh, there is a difference between doing/learning things the hard way and taking the scenic route.


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## swarth (Apr 24, 2018)

Without some point of reference, blindly buying naturals, at any cost, wont do much to help you.


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## StonedEdge (Apr 24, 2018)

If you're gunna blindly drop 100$ on a jnat not knowing what it is or how it behaves, you'd be better off allocating that money to some new higher end synthetics. That way you know exactly what you're paying for and there's little to no surprises. Instead of taking a chance and maybe throwing that money away. Just a thought from someone who just finished replacing his mid/high grit synthetic stones mostly with jnat analogues.


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## daveb (Apr 24, 2018)

Home Depot is running a special on natural stones right now.....


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## Mucho Bocho (Apr 24, 2018)

Dave your usually funny, but thats FUNNY &#129315;


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## panda (Apr 24, 2018)

daveb said:


> I get the sense that you don't want to hear it and are not going to listen to it but I'll echo what the smart kids have said above. Synthetic. You would be much better served with even a Bestor 1200 (approx $50) than dropping a hundred on an unknown Jnat.
> 
> My daddy used to tell me I had champagne tastes with a beer budget. Are we related?



don't bother with cheap natural unless you enjoy wasting your money.

daveb and i had the same dad apparently.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 24, 2018)

well I bought it in the middle of the night last night anyways, it was only $27. this is it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPANESE-w...i367TNH%2Ff3Bybl6TumE%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


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## K813zra (Apr 24, 2018)

daveb said:


> Home Depot is running a special on natural stones right now.....



The clay based pavers we used on our patio in Alicante left about a 800-1200 grit edge. They sure soak up water and get very muddy. All kinds of inclusions though. Still better than a beston 500. :rofl2: I'll try to sharpen with about anything I can find laying around, just because.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 24, 2018)

and you know I may regret it, but it's only $27 and who knows this could be a steal. we shall see. 

I talked with Shinichi at Watanabe and he helped me out a Lot! Gave me a Amasuka Torato suggestion for finishing and a AI 1000 for sharpening, and I would have bought it but it was going to be over $130 total. The Amasuka Torato was only $30 or so, but the shipping was like $55. He suggested the AI 1000 since I didn't have the money to invest in a real Natural Sharpening stone. He definitely was the Best to work with, and i'll definitely be back in the next couple months to buy his suggestions, but for now we'll try out this Binsui Amasuka.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 24, 2018)

K813zra said:


> The clay based pavers we used on our patio in Alicante left about a 800-1200 grit edge. They sure soak up water and get very muddy. All kinds of inclusions though. Still better than a beston 500. :rofl2: I'll try to sharpen with about anything I can find laying around, just because.


haha really!?


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## Xenif (Apr 24, 2018)

K813zra said:


> The clay based pavers we used on our patio in Alicante left about a 800-1200 grit edge. They sure soak up water and get very muddy. All kinds of inclusions though. Still better than a beston 500. :rofl2: I'll try to sharpen with about anything I can find laying around, just because.


Ok so Im not the only crazy person, btw, i found a place called "Whetstone Island" in Ontario, I want ti make a trip there, if not for finding whetstones atleast bragging rights to say I shaprened a knife on whetstone island with a whetstone.


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## Grunt173 (Apr 24, 2018)

You guys are killing me.:rofl2:


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## K813zra (Apr 24, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> haha really!?



Yeah, I have tried things like slate too. But the slate from the old barn really does not seem to 'cut' so much as burnish. Works okay with nagura slurry. Maybe that makes me a goober. 

Btw if you want to try a cheap natural and are not too particular about the country it comes from then check out a Belgian blue whetstone. You can get an 8x2 for about $40 and they are fairly decent. Everyone always goes directly to J-nats but there are all kinds of stones out there. Many of which are more typically used for razors though. Anyway, that just crossed my mind. Worth a look anyway.



Xenif said:


> Ok so Im not the only crazy person, btw, i found a place called "Whetstone Island" in Ontario, I want ti make a trip there, if not for finding whetstones atleast bragging rights to say I shaprened a knife on whetstone island with a whetstone.



Hah, well, I do goofy things I guess. Not my idea though, I saw it on youtube ages ago and said to myself "I have some of those from a project". My brother in-law is a tile guy so I get all kinds of leftover ceramic tiles, flooring etc. 

Whestsone Island sounds interesting.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 24, 2018)

K813zra said:


> Yeah, I have tried things like slate too. But the slate from the old barn really does not seem to 'cut' so much as burnish. Works okay with nagura slurry. Maybe that makes me a goober.
> 
> Btw if you want to try a cheap natural and are not too particular about the country it comes from then check out a Belgian blue whetstone. You can get an 8x2 for about $40 and they are fairly decent. Everyone always goes directly to J-nats but there are all kinds of stones out there. Many of which are more typically used for razors though. Anyway, that just crossed my mind. Worth a look anyway.
> 
> ...



Awesome I appreciate that! Yeah Im not really to set on it being Just a Japanese stone, Ive thought about trying Arkansas stone too... any other stones you could suggest? And do you know the grit roughly of a Belgian blue? And I mean I wont be buying any anytime soon since I bought that binsui last night, set my alarm for 2:20am and had a bidding war to win it!


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## Jovidah (Apr 24, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> and you know I may regret it, but it's only $27 and who knows this could be a steal. we shall see.
> 
> I talked with Shinichi at Watanabe and he helped me out a Lot! Gave me a Amasuka Torato suggestion for finishing and a AI 1000 for sharpening, and I would have bought it but it was going to be over $130 total. The Amasuka Torato was only $30 or so, but the shipping was like $55. He suggested the AI 1000 since I didn't have the money to invest in a real Natural Sharpening stone. He definitely was the Best to work with, and i'll definitely be back in the next couple months to buy his suggestions, but for now we'll try out this Binsui Amasuka.



You realize that for just a few dollars more than you just wasted on this natural stone you could have bought the Shapton 1000 - which is the same stone as the AI 1000?
But why buy smart when you can buy twice...

On Belgian stones... there's blue (sometimes abbreviated as BBW, Belgian Blue Whetstone) and yellow (also referred to as coticule)... but especially the prices on the yellow ones have become quite high because they're popular in the shaving community. The blue ones are usually described as giving a ~4000 grit finish, but I'd advise you to read up on coticule's before buying if you're interested in that sort of thing; there are some good websites that explain the differences, how they work, etc. 
You can't directly compare them to synthethics.


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## K813zra (Apr 24, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> and you know I may regret it, but it's only $27 and who knows this could be a steal. we shall see.
> 
> I talked with Shinichi at Watanabe and he helped me out a Lot! Gave me a Amasuka Torato suggestion for finishing and a AI 1000 for sharpening, and I would have bought it but it was going to be over $130 total. The Amasuka Torato was only $30 or so, but the shipping was like $55. He suggested the AI 1000 since I didn't have the money to invest in a real Natural Sharpening stone. He definitely was the Best to work with, and i'll definitely be back in the next couple months to buy his suggestions, but for now we'll try out this Binsui Amasuka.



I missed this post. 

While people can be Debby downers and I like my Amakusa what is being said is not without merit. Sin has stones of known quality, even the Amakusa. However those ones you find in plastic wrap at tool shops are often hard, slow, do not auto slurry and have loads of inclusions. Actually, all Amakusa that I have ever used have inclusions. They are just soft and don't seem to matter. 

Anyway, Amakusa can be good stones if you know what you are getting into and you have reasonable expectations. Binsui and Ikarashi too.


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