# edge in pro kitchen



## bathonuk (Jun 3, 2013)

Hi guys. I am wondering how long can you use your knifes after proper sharpening in the pro kitchen where you cut aprox 120-140kg of meat and vegies per week? I am asking because there is a discussion on the other forum where a pro chef who lives in japan is saying that he is sharpening knife once in 1,5 month. He is not steeling or stropping between sharpening sessions.


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## snowbrother (Jun 3, 2013)

I have to sharpen every 3 days minimum, preferably a quick touch up every night. I don't steel my knives, but I do occasionally strop on my wooden cutting board if I notice it is losing its edge.


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## slowtyper (Jun 3, 2013)

bathonuk said:


> Hi guys. I am wondering how long can you use your knifes after proper sharpening in the pro kitchen where you cut aprox 120-140kg of meat and vegies per week? I am asking because there is a discussion on the other forum where a pro chef who lives in japan is saying that he is sharpening knife once in 1,5 month. He is not steeling or stropping between sharpening sessions.



You can definitely sharpen your knife every 1.5 times a month. Or 3 months. or 5 months., or 3 days. It all depends on how sharp you want your knife to be.


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## knyfeknerd (Jun 3, 2013)

Yeah, I'm sure the knife is super sharp after a month and a half. 
Some people's idea of sharp is a lot different than mine.............
....and vice versa.


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## panda (Jun 3, 2013)

I've gone two months without even a touch up before, just steel and strop so it's doable, just gotta have technique that doesn't ruin your edges.


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## stevenStefano (Jun 3, 2013)

Ideally, I'd sharpen my knives once a week if I could be arsed/had time. After about that time I use my Mac rod so it ends up about 3 or 4 weeks


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## Crothcipt (Jun 3, 2013)

It depends on the amount of prep I am doing, or if I am on the line. But I usually rotate my knives about once a week. If they start to even see some dulling I switch it out. When I get more than 4 knives I will go to sharpening. 

With that much meat and veggies I can see going with that long. It also matters what he is cutting, fish vs. cow is a huge difference. Onions vs. squash is a huge difference too.


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## Brad Gibson (Jun 3, 2013)

I sharpen at least once a week. Everyday if I have time. I like my knives charp!


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## turbochef422 (Jun 3, 2013)

I sharpen once a week and touch up every day.


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## bathonuk (Jun 3, 2013)

Ok so this guy gave my an example that when he bought Masakage Koishi 240 he sharpened after two months for the first time and then aprox every 1.5months.
Is it possible that edge will last that long without touching up?? Let's say that this guy have proper technique of cutting.


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## wellminded1 (Jun 3, 2013)

I had that exact knife and sold it to a co worker, sharpened it when i gave it to him and he went about 4 months and the thing was still sharper than some blades i see.


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## jgraeff (Jun 3, 2013)

Depends on the steel on both Mario and Markos knives I got about a month without touching up, almost 3 months before resharpening. This is with heavy prep. With my konosuke every 4 days. With masamoto ks every shift


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## Brad Gibson (Jun 4, 2013)

I would say it could last that long if you used a diamond honing steel... But I just can't bring myself to touch my babies on one of those.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 7, 2013)

Brad Gibson said:


> I would say it could last that long if you used a diamond honing steel... But I just can't bring myself to touch my babies on one of those.



Yes stay away fr. those diamond honing steels esp. wt. Japan knives.


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## TheDispossessed (Jun 8, 2013)

i sharpen my ginga white #2 every night, but i could get away with less i'm sure. i have the time and want my knife as sharp as can be. daily maintenance is on a gesshin 4k stone, i go through the 2k and 4k a couple times a week. i like to make sure the entire blade sticks into my thumbnail before every shift because i do about 8 hours of knife work a day, all veg.


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## kpeddie2010 (Jun 8, 2013)

I sharpen roughly every 3 weeks but I strop on leather every night. I can push cut tomatoes and I can slice protein with no struggle at 2 weeks. Lately using konosuke white 2 240 gyuto.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 9, 2013)

kpeddie2010 said:


> I sharpen roughly every 3 weeks but I strop on leather every night. I can push cut tomatoes and I can slice protein with no struggle at 2 weeks. Lately using konosuke white 2 240 gyuto.



I used that blade alot,turned it into a single bevel,good for peeling fruits & veg. great pineapple knife.Heavy usage in Gardemanger,touch it up at least twice a week.you must keep a strop at work


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## ms4awd (Jun 9, 2013)

i used to use a Hattori KD gyuto for my prep/line knife and can get it very sharp.The edge retention on these are pretty good but even then, i needed to at least touch it up every 2 or 3 days if i needed to shave chives or do some delicate knife work. The longest i have ever gone without sharpening or touching up/steeling/stropping was about 2 weeks to test edge retention. the knife still cuts really well for general use but it couldnt handle shaving chives or even slicing crusty proteins cleanly anymore. Even at that point all it ussually needed was to steel(i used to use ceramic) or strop and it would be perfect for the day as long as i did the delicate stuff first. Did this for about 3 months when i just didnt have time to sharpen my knives when i got home pulling 12-14 hour shifts. And this was at a 2 michellin star restaurant so we were not really cutting anything in volume although a lot fine detail work for the garnishes.


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## Chef Niloc (Jun 9, 2013)

I strop and steel just out of habit but have let knives go before just to see how long they will last. That sad Burke Suji and Butch western Deba are two knives that got used every day for over a year without anything but stroping. The restaurant I was at did 1200+ covers a night, if that gives you any idea of the amount of use they get. Butch's Deba goes threw bone and skin all day long, keeps its edge and has never chipted. Bills suji could not keep going threw that for a year, but we are Comparing a Deba that's 3/8" thick at the spine to a suji that's super thin.


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## maxim (Jun 9, 2013)

The Japanese chefs i talked too sharpened they knives every day, when i worked as chef i sharpened every 3 days. But i also had many knives in rotation.


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## Chef Doom (Jun 9, 2013)

So my understanding is that long term use without any stropping or touching up is not practical? I would like to extend the mod's question by adding how long you can reasonably go in a pro environment after a fresh sharpening session without any touch ups what so ever. Not necessarily to review or test the limits of your knife. Just how long it takes before the regression in performance starts to be too irritating to handle.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 9, 2013)

Depends on how sharp you like your knife,if as mentioned you want it to catch on your nail for every shift you have to sharpen more often.But once a knife is trained it only takes a lite touchup to keep it going.I would touch up my Yanagi's after each heavy use,takes very little on a polishing stone to refreash the edge.

I don't care what knife you use it's sharp edge will not last long wt. heavy usage.To me if it can't slice & dice a tomato need to refreash.


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## Chef Doom (Jun 13, 2013)

I can understand that. I guess over time looking at older forum posts the thought of edge retention would mean weeks or months, but I guess in reality you just don't want your edge to go dull on you in the middle of a prep situation. Plus performing touch ups is often mentioned but there is never any explanation in detail on what a touch up really is. I remember there was a thread on stropping techniques once. Is anyone's polishing or stropping technique the same as their touch up?


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## zitangy (Jun 13, 2013)

keithsaltydog said:


> Yes stay away fr. those diamond honing steels esp. wt. Japan knives.



Just curios...

Its the grit size that matters.. I use a 1600grit diamond rod ( jewel stick.. 3 grits on a rod I believe 400,800 amd 1600)

Eventhough it is diamond rod of 1600, it is still finer than say a regular steel rod of 800 grit.

I dont quite subscribe that you should not rod a J knife as every knife after some usage will fold/ curl to either side and has to be attended do. Even if you do it on a stone..you are still trying to achieve the same objective... removing the fold/curl by either breaking it or straightening it out and leaving a wire edge which will break in due course.

and not to mention that will be the grit striations on teh edge.. Whatever it is.. far better than not attending to the fold/ curl.

Just my views... 
rgds
d


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## panda (Jun 13, 2013)

after coming off the stones, i go about three shifts before having to strop, then its strop daily, after 2nd week go to ceramic rod AND strop, after a month a touch up is due by light sharpening on higher grit stone. 2month mark ill want to do full progression.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 13, 2013)

I use only a totally smooth polishing steel on J-Gyuto.Most Japanese don't use steels at all.A smooth rod can extend your cutting time during prep. if used correctly.

If a fine diamond rod works for you it is because you use it correctly & use a stone or strop to hone your edge.The problem wt. Diamond steels is a majority of cooks use them as a substitute for learning freehand on waterstones.As their knives get worse they increase the angle & press. on the rod,after a while knife doesn't cut worth beans.I have had quite a few cooks come to me as their knives do not cut,almost all using diamond steels.They are popular here the Reasturant supply stores carry lots of diamond rods.I teach them freehand & tell if have to use a steel get polish steel or smooth ceramic either one of these wil realine your edge wt. a few lite measured strokes.


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## bieniek (Jun 19, 2013)

Damn, those amazing american-produced knives, one would love to shout out! Keep ultra sharp edge for years without sharpening. 
Eversharp, ®, is here, gentlemen.

Now, lets get back to reality.
I remember that thread where some sushi chef claimed the need to sharpen few times a day or before every task, to keep the edge in best order.. 

The thing is, everyone have their own standards, and their own definitions. 

So lets make some more scientific approach. Or lets attempt.

Heavy veg prep? 
[the example is not a heavy prep for me cause I think of heavy prep when you have to cut 2kgs of banana shallots into thinnest strips possible. I think fine work engages the knife and user more than chopping the shite out of some random veg. But I do that too, before big functions]

Lets say 30 kg of veg but fine cutting not chopping onions in half. Lets say cutting lengthwise your knife makes 10 board contacts, and around 4-6 crosswise.
10 k of onion that is ~70 onions. That makes for roughly 1400 board contacts on 10k of onion. 

Then carrots, lengthwise 8 times to get strips and 20 x crosswise to cut a rough cube. How many carrots in a kilo? 5-8 me thinks. that is beyond my math capabilities but its 160xlets make it 6= yyy = 960 board contacts.

And then celeriac to peel you have to use 10-12 contacts per head. 9 heads/10kgs. That makes a hundred already
10 for slices, 10 for strips and 10 to dice. 30 per head to deal with the shite that makes for 300 board contacts for roughly cut 10k's of celeriac.

So there you have it, 2600 board contacts - it might be with different portions of the actual edge, but lets say that about there. 
5x a week, lets make it 12500 board contacts. 

50000 a month. 

And wetalk just a veg prep that, if youre lazy, takes two hours[with peeling]. 

Now add 10 kgs of cubed chicken breasts = 12 contacts/breastx50 = 600, 10 kgs of sliced lemons 10 slicesx60 lemons=600, 10 kgs of beef cubed= 600. Thats another two hours. 

1800 board contacts a day= 36000 contacts a month. 

And youre just midway your working shift. 

Lets do some mushroom chopping - 6 pieces/mushroom, lets say the mushrooms were grown on elephant shite - that came with the circus, and they weight 100g a piece. 
Add 600 contacts a shift, 300 a week and 12 000 a month

The last two hours you help your mate cause he is going down on fruit section.
Peeling pineapple - 10, quartering + core cutting= 8 and making nice sized cubes =8x4=32. Thats 50 per fruit. How many fruits you can handle in two hours, 50 hangovered?
Add 2500 board contacts on that one per day/12500 a week whooping 52500 a month.

And here we just talk board smashing. Think about the iron in beef, acids in lemons and fruits, sugars that makes the bladesticky and therefore making you apply more force = harder boardsmashing.

And then at the end of that shift, shave some chives :tease:

No problem, I did that once with just a Wictorinox petty, blindfolded and levitating


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## Crothcipt (Jun 20, 2013)

Dam man I don't think I have done that much in over 10 yrs. 

What is hangovered? something miss in translation? Or do you mean doing so while hung over?

Btw:notworthy: my prep skills are not at all that quick.


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## bieniek (Jun 20, 2013)

Hehe I meant 50 fruits, but if the night before youve had an ocean of booze.


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## easy13 (Jun 21, 2013)

Line Knife once a week because it gets banged around a bunch and not handled with kid gloves. Prep 210 & 240 every 2.


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