# Bob Kramer Custom Damascus knife



## welshstar (Aug 28, 2011)

Hi

I happened to drop onto the Bob Kramer site, are his knives highly regarded in terms of function as well as beauty ? 

What would be a tpical price for one of his 10 inch chef knives ?

Alan


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## Marko Tsourkan (Aug 28, 2011)

That is a good question. The answer is $4000 with over three years wait, or up to $50000 if you bid and win one of Bob Kramer auctions that happen every two to three months. 


M


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## riverie (Aug 28, 2011)

too crazy to be true, but it's real.


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## JohnnyChance (Aug 28, 2011)

If you don't care about the damascus steel (more aesthetics than performance difference compared to straight steel), Zwilling makes a very nice Kramer line that mimics his customs pretty well. A 10" chef's knife in 52100 steel is $350.


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## welshstar (Aug 28, 2011)

JohnnyChance said:


> If you don't care about the damascus steel (more aesthetics than performance difference compared to straight steel), Zwilling makes a very nice Kramer line that mimics his customs pretty well. A 10" chef's knife in 52100 steel is $350.


 
Wow, no wonder i liked the look of them !!! $4,000 is a S**t load of cake for a knife no matter how good.

Is there another custom maker who prices for sale on this planet, that makes something of similar quality or is Kramer out on his own ?


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## kalaeb (Aug 28, 2011)

Many of the knife makers in this forum produce work on the same level if not better than Kramer. All are phenominal to talk to and work with! Take a look at the vendor section and ask some more questions. 

If you are dead set on a Kramer you can get a carbon 52100 for substiantially less than the damascus. Custom carbon Kramers run about $150.00/inch 

I hope you find what you are looking for.


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## JohnnyChance (Aug 28, 2011)

Bill Burke, Devin Thomas, Delbert Ealy, Michael Rader, Pierre Rodrigue and more all make damascus and high quality kitchen knives. If you do not want a damascus blade, the list grows even more (Dave Martell, Marko Tsourkan, Butch Harner, etc), and there are more and more guys every day who are making their own straight steel knives, or have made damascus for other types of knives and are now making kitchen knives.

But that should give you a pretty good start.


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## tk59 (Aug 28, 2011)

Haha. Like JC mentioned, this is a good time for you to show up looking for custom makers. 

So far, the only American makers putting out excellent custom knives that I can vouch for are Murray Carter and Devin Thomas. Tilman Leder (Rottman on this forum also makes an excellent knife. He's german.) In a few days, I may be able to vouch for Delbert Ealy. I know he makes a good knife and he has been making great strides. There may be Japanese customs you can access through an importer such as Jon Broida with Japanese Knife Imports.


After that, I can say Michael Rader, Stephan Fowler and Adam Marr are at least close to making some excellent knives.


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## Marko Tsourkan (Aug 28, 2011)

tk59 said:


> ...
> 
> After that, I can say Michael Rader, Stephan Fowler and Adam Marr are at least close to making some excellent knives.


 
Give Michael Rader a benefit of a doubt. He is a different class where you placed him. 

Devin Thomas makes the best damascus in my opinion, plus, he can make san mai that looks like Japanese san mai, without hills and dales, and he can also forge weld a solid edge on a damascus body. 

Moreover, he has one of the best heat treatment and makes some of the finest kitchen knives. At $120 and inch, his knives are relative bargain. 

Bob Kramer knives won't cut better than Devin Thomas knives, but people buy them because they were made by Bob Kramer. 

M


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## so_sleepy (Aug 28, 2011)

There are lots of quality knives, but what qualities are you looking for?

It has taken Bob a long time to build his reputation enough to charge $400/inch for a knife. His chefs knife in particular is distinctive. You will find that the profile is polarizing. You either like it or hate it. His handles are also quite large which may or may not be a good thing for you.

There aren't many kitchen knife makers that forge their own damascus( Ealy, Thomas, Rader, Burke, Haas, sorry if I'm leaving anyone out). For some reason, they also don't make it a habit to post pricing information publicly. You need to contact them for a quote.
Dave has a couple of Delbert Ealy 240mm gyutos for sale here
http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/category-s/112.htm


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## JohnnyChance (Aug 28, 2011)

tk59 said:


> So far, the only American makers putting out excellent custom knives that I can vouch for are Murray Carter and Devin Thomas.



Doh, I knew I was forgetting a big name. And even with all the posts about him lately, as usual, it was Murray that I forgot.


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## tk59 (Aug 28, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> Give Michael Rader a benefit of a doubt. He is a different class where you placed him. ...


 I can say that I was impressed with many characteristics of Michael Rader's passaround knife including aesthetics and quality of the steel. I felt it was lacking in terms of profile and geometry. To me, that is what makes a knife worth cutting with. Can Michael make a great kitchen knife? I believe he can. All I am saying is the one blade I tried out would not make it into my own personal line-up. That said, I like Michael and I have every intention of owning a Rader at some point.


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## jmforge (Aug 28, 2011)

As the food pros on here have pointed out, there aren't that many custom knifemakers making serious kitchen knives............yet. Many guys will crank out the occasional kitchen type knife, but a lot of them tend to be what folks on here would call a utility/camp knife than can do kitchen work in a pinch. I think that is going to change because the one thing that I have noticed is that if you produce a good quality kitchen knife that performs, serious kitchen knife fans appear to be willing to pay you a fair price for it even if you don't have MS behind your name.


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## Marko Tsourkan (Aug 28, 2011)

tk59 said:


> I can say that I was impressed with many characteristics of Michael Rader's passaround knife including aesthetics and quality of the steel. I felt it was lacking in terms of profile and geometry. To me, that is what makes a knife worth cutting with. Can Michael make a great kitchen knife? I believe he can. All I am saying is the one blade I tried out would not make it into my own personal line-up. That said, I like Michael and I have every intention of owning a Rader at some point.


 
With proper feedback, those are minor things to correct in my opinion. The skill level on Rader knives is very high and to get to that level, can take years. So that's why I would put him in a class higher than a beginner maker even if his knives are not the best cutters. To me the attention to details and fit and finish is just as important as a knife's geometry and performance. I have not seen a sloppy work from Rader, though I can't say I liked geometry on many of his earlier knives. He is a fast learner it seems, so I am sure he will make changes. 
M


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## Salty dog (Aug 29, 2011)

A custom Devin Thomas damascus knife will be up for auction on E bay ending at 8:30 Central time on 9/11. It is a commemorative 9/11damascus knife that is currently being made. The proceeds are being donated to The Childrens Burn Camp here in Wisconsin.

I'll be listing the knife without photos soon but will post them as soon as I can.


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## oivind_dahle (Aug 29, 2011)

I bid 1500 USD unseens here and now. See how far Ill follow the most extreme ones


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## tk59 (Aug 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> With proper feedback, those are minor things to correct in my opinion. The skill level on Rader knives is very high and to get to that level, can take years. So that's why I would put him in a class higher than a beginner maker even if his knives are not the best cutters. To me the attention to details and fit and finish is just as important as a knife's geometry and performance. I have not seen a sloppy work from Rader, though I can't say I liked geometry on many of his earlier knives. He is a fast learner it seems, so I am sure he will make changes.
> M


 You'll get no argument from me except for the "minor" part. I used to think that way but if it's so minor, why doesn't everyone just do it? Frankly, I think it's a little tricky to find the sweet spot for the convex face(s) of the blade. To give one example, I feel that I have a good understanding of the physics of cutting. I've been modifying the geometry of my own knives with stones and now a belt grinder for a couple of years now and I'm still tuning them and I've seen, and inspected a lot of great cutting knives in close detail. You've spent a lot of time with Shigefusas, yourself. How long have you spent figuring out what your perfect geometry is? Do you feel you're there yet?


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## jonomc (Nov 8, 2013)

welshstar said:


> Wow, no wonder i liked the look of them !!! $4,000 is a S**t load of cake for a knife no matter how good.
> 
> Is there another custom maker who prices for sale on this planet, that makes something of similar quality or is Kramer out on his own ?



have you tried takeshi saji hands down my favourite knife http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/TakeshiSaji.html


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## Frater_Decus (Nov 8, 2013)

jonomc said:


> have you tried takeshi saji hands down my favourite knife http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/TakeshiSaji.html



Jono, 

Just FYI the last post in this thread is over two years old.


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