# Zwilling Kramers available for pre-order on SLT



## rockbox (May 10, 2011)

http://www.surlatable.com/product/P...on-Steel-Chefs-Knife-by-Zwilling-J-A-Henckels

$349 ain't bad as long as it isn't too think. I guess I need to find out if my friend still works at SLT.


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## watercrawl (May 10, 2011)

rockbox said:


> .... I guess I need to find out if my friend still works at SLT.



I'm thinking about doing the same thing, but I think everyone I knew there has moved on.


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## deanb (May 10, 2011)

I just ordered the 10" chef's knife. They're supposed to ship on May 24th. I currently have a real Kramer 9" carbon chef's and 5 Shun Kramers. Love 'em. Can't wait to see the Henckel Kramer.


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## Salty dog (May 10, 2011)

I wish they would list details. But of course most people don't care.


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## rockbox (May 10, 2011)

watercrawl said:


> I'm thinking about doing the same thing, but I think everyone I knew there has moved on.



Maybe I can exchange my Shun Kramer for one. :devilburn:


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## Adamm (May 10, 2011)

Looks nice, looks like I need to come up with 350 extra dollars so i can buy one.


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## rockbox (May 10, 2011)

rockbox said:


> http://www.surlatable.com/product/P...on-Steel-Chefs-Knife-by-Zwilling-J-A-Henckels
> 
> $349 ain't bad as long as it isn't too *thick*. I guess I need to find out if my friend still works at SLT.



The one drawback of not having my own board is that I can't edit my crappy typing anymore.


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## JohnnyChance (May 10, 2011)

I will see if I can get my hands on one for some measurements.


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## Michael Rader (May 11, 2011)

Love the warning at the bottom of their write-up: 

"CALIFORNIA PROP 65 WARNING: This product may contain a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer, or birth defects or other reproductive harm."
-M


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## mattrud (May 11, 2011)

I am good on kramer knives, hahahahahah


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## so_sleepy (May 11, 2011)

I'm going to check out the slicer, but nine inches seems a little short. I wish they had used something other than brass for the bolster and pins.


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## JohnnyChance (May 11, 2011)

mattrud said:


> I am good on kramer knives, hahahahahah


 
Shut up you!


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## JohnnyChance (May 11, 2011)

Michael Rader said:


> Love the warning at the bottom of their write-up:
> 
> "CALIFORNIA PROP 65 WARNING: This product may contain a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer, or birth defects or other reproductive harm."
> -M



As in, if someone stabbed you in the groin with one, you might experience reproductive harm?


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## Tristan (May 11, 2011)

JohnnyChance said:


> As in, if someone stabbed you in the groin with one, you might experience reproductive harm?


 
No, I believe it is: "your kids may be born with a curious desire to purchase ridiculously expensive cutting implements that will result in their need to hide out in forums where their behavior is tolerated and understood" :razz:


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## mr drinky (May 11, 2011)

I see Kramer is also conducting a series of classes at SLT during the month of June in conjunction with this new line of knives. 

http://www.surlatable.com/category/cat690426/

Closest to me is Glendale, WI -- but that is still a hike. 

k.


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## Noodle Soup (May 11, 2011)

SLT "Kramer is the only Master Smith in the world that specializes in kitchen cutlery." How about Murray Carter? Murray actually passed his Master Smith test with on one of his kitchen knives long before Kramer became famous with the general public.


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## rockbox (May 11, 2011)

Noodle Soup said:


> SLT "Kramer is the only Master Smith in the world that specializes in kitchen cutlery." How about Murray Carter? Murray actually passed his Master Smith test with on one of his kitchen knives long before Kramer became famous with the general public.



Believe it or not, Carter makes a lot more money making neck and outdoor knives. That's where the money is.


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## Lefty (May 11, 2011)

so_sleepy said:


> I'm going to check out the slicer, but nine inches seems a little short. I wish they had used something other than brass for the bolster and pins.



Sounds like a great everyday knife to me! And I love brass pins! To each his own, I guess...


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## Lefty (May 11, 2011)

Michael Rader said:


> Love the warning at the bottom of their write-up:
> 
> "CALIFORNIA PROP 65 WARNING: This product may contain a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer, or birth defects or other reproductive harm."
> -M


 
At my last job I used markers with this warning all day, every day!
They have changed the wording slighty, likely because of a-holes like me! 
It used to read "...known to cause cancer by the state of California". 
I always told everyone we were safe because we are pretty far away from California, and if I'm ever that way, I'll be IN California. All those people in states by California had better be careful, though.


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## ecchef (May 11, 2011)

Not to stir up a hornets nest, but why doesn't this knife generate the same scrutiny and criticism as the Richmond Addict. 

Seems to me to be a comparable situation; an entry level copy of a high end knife produced by a long established, high volume knife factory. Actually, with the price of the SLT Kramer, entry level might be inappropriate.


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## Lefty (May 11, 2011)

I think because it is made by Henckles who, love them or hate them, make a quality high-end product AND the specs are what Kramer chose (copies of his others - reputed great performers). Add to that they are made of 52100, if I'm not mistaken, they are show stoppers and suddenly it seems like a decent price.


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## rockbox (May 11, 2011)

It really depends. The biggest difference other than weight between my Shun Kramer and a real one is the geometry. A real Kramer is much thinner near the tip. If Zwilling decides to keep it thin like their Miyabis, then it should be a good performer.


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## ecchef (May 11, 2011)

If they're that good, and affordable, and readily available, doesn't it devalue the mystique of custom Kramer to anyone but a collector?

I mean, first it was the Shun 'damascus', now the Zwillig carbon, what's next? 440c K-mart collection? $15.00 Chinese knock offs you can get from the guy on the corner?


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## rockbox (May 11, 2011)

ecchef said:


> If they're that good, and affordable, and readily available, doesn't it devalue the mystique of custom Kramer to anyone but a collector?
> 
> I mean, first it was the Shun 'damascus', now the Zwillig carbon, what's next? 440c K-mart collection? $15.00 Chinese knock offs you can get from the guy on the corner?



Not really because Kramer makes all his money on damascus knives. No one is going to wait 3 years to get a carbon knife especially at the old price. Kramer can only make 200 knives a year. I think he would rather make 200 knives at 4K versus 1.5K.


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## Lefty (May 11, 2011)

"Real" Kramers only have a mystique to knuts and collectors as it is. To anyone else, they're absurdly priced knives that look flashy. The performance is there (basically everyone agrees), but it's not the performance that justifies the price. It's having a knife hand-made by one of the greatest. 
We have incredible makers on this forum whose knives are spectacular, but to anyone who doesn't understand the difference between a custom and a factory knife, it makes no difference. My favorite knife I own is a 'factory knife', but I'm waiting on a custom by Pierre and I GUARANTEE it will become my new favorite (no pressure Pierre)!
The Henckles Kramers will be a very good knife, I'm sure (and worth the money...hopefully), but are not and I don't think they're pretending to be a 'real' Kramer. They are trying to be as close as you can get without the man himself making it to our specs.
Also, i think most would agree that the Henckles version should be a step up from the Shun Kramer, so I don't get the K-Mart comment.
I'm not trying to be argumentative AT ALL, I'm just trying to explain my thoughts


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## Dave Martell (May 11, 2011)

ecchef said:


> If they're that good, and affordable, and readily available, doesn't it devalue the mystique of custom Kramer to anyone but a collector?
> 
> I mean, first it was the Shun 'damascus', now the Zwillig carbon, what's next? 440c K-mart collection? $15.00 Chinese knock offs you can get from the guy on the corner?




Maybe there will be a Richmond Kramer Addict version one day? :biggrin2:


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## rockbox (May 11, 2011)

Dave Martell said:


> Maybe there will be a Richmond Kramer Addict version one day? :biggrin2:



Reason why it was best that you own your own board.:razz:


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## Dave Martell (May 11, 2011)

rockbox said:


> reason why it was best that you own your own board.:razz:




lol


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## so_sleepy (May 11, 2011)

rockbox said:


> \No one is going to wait 3 years to get a carbon knife especially at the old price. Kramer can only make 200 knives a year. I think he would rather make 200 knives at 4K versus 1.5K.


 
I waited more than three years for my straight 52100 Kramer. The damascus was too rich for me, even at the old price. I have wondered why the knife connoisseurs here have no interest in Kramer's plain knives since they are higher-performing knives than his damascus.


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## WildBoar (May 11, 2011)

I jumped on the SLT web site Monday morning, and signed up for his June knife class in VA. I'm hoping it is not a sales pitch.

If one of you guys with a real Kramer wants to ship it to me for a few days, it would be fun to bring it to class and tell him I just bought it on eBay :happy2:


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## rockbox (May 11, 2011)

so_sleepy said:


> I waited more than three years for my straight 52100 Kramer. The damascus was too rich for me, even at the old price. I have wondered why the knife connoisseurs here have no interest in Kramer's plain knives since they are higher-performing knives than his damascus.



Austin huh? We should hook up some time.


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## mhlee (May 11, 2011)

Michael Rader said:


> Love the warning at the bottom of their write-up:
> 
> "CALIFORNIA PROP 65 WARNING: This product may contain a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer, or birth defects or other reproductive harm."
> -M



Michael:

Every building that I've worked in since I moved back here in '98 has that warning in the lobby. :slaphead:


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## mhlee (May 11, 2011)

WildBoar said:


> I jumped on the SLT web site Monday morning, and signed up for his June knife class in VA. I'm hoping it is not a sales pitch.
> 
> If one of you guys with a real Kramer wants to ship it to me for a few days, it would be fun to bring it to class and tell him I just bought it on eBay :happy2:


 
When he was holding classes for his Shun knives, at some locations, you would receive a sharpening stone (King if I recall) and some other swag. But, those classes weren't free.


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## WildBoar (May 11, 2011)

mhlee said:


> When he was holding classes for his Shun knives, at some locations, you would receive a sharpening stone (King if I recall) and some other swag. But, those classes weren't free.


These are not free - $100/ person. That's a bit more then one of their regular cooking classes, but they are throwing in their "Knives Cooks Love" book 'for free' :slaphead:

I took one of their knife skills classes 5-6 years ago; it was okay but not great. I'm hoping to learn something from Bob, though. Signed up my wife as well, so she can meet a celebrity. :happy2: I hope it's not a letdown after seeing all the other famous knife makers at the ECG 2 weeks earlier :cool2:


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## Craig (May 11, 2011)

Is there any reason to be more excited for these than we were for the Shun knockoffs?


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## rockbox (May 11, 2011)

Craig said:


> Is there any reason to be more excited for these than we were for the Shun knockoffs?


 
Its a closer replica of his knives made of the same material his normal knives are. The shun Kramers really only share a profile with the real ones.


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## so_sleepy (May 11, 2011)

rockbox said:


> Austin huh? We should hook up some time.


 
Sure, I'm up North. But the only thing I have that you might not have seen is my new Delbert Ealy gyuto.


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## so_sleepy (May 11, 2011)

What are the odds that Williams Sonoma will get a 52100 Meji in six months?


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## rockbox (May 11, 2011)

so_sleepy said:


> Sure, I'm up North. But the only thing I have that you might not have seen is my new Delbert Ealy gyuto.



I live up North also in Cedar Park near Lake Travis. I don't have anything really cool except for the DT bubble wrap suji I've been working on for the last zillion months.


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## Mattias504 (May 11, 2011)

I mean I gotta say I find it intriguing. After they come out and if someone with a real Kramer gets and reviews one of these and says performance is at least similar and the grind is good, I would consider buying one. I mean, lets face it, I'm never going to afford/want to spend 5k for the real thing. 

I guess we will find out around the end of the month.


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## so_sleepy (May 11, 2011)

Mattias504 said:


> I mean I gotta say I find it intriguing. After they come out and if someone with a real Kramer gets and reviews one of these and says performance is at least similar and the grind is good, I would consider buying one. I mean, lets face it, I'm never going to afford/want to spend 5k for the real thing.
> 
> I guess we will find out around the end of the month.


 
A real Kramer 10" 52100 knife is _only_ $1,500 at today's rate.


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## sudsy9977 (May 11, 2011)

man i can only imagine what one of those would be like after a tune up from dave.....i can't imagine henkels got the grind just like bob would....i wonder how they would perform.....if i had th emoney i'd buy one for sure.....pricy though....ryan


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## Salty dog (May 11, 2011)

mr drinky said:


> I see Kramer is also conducting a series of classes at SLT during the month of June in conjunction with this new line of knives.
> 
> http://www.surlatable.com/category/cat690426/
> 
> ...


 
I'll be attending. Hehe.


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## mpukas (May 11, 2011)

Salty dog said:


> I'll be attending. Hehe.


 
I might make a road trip just for the fireworks...


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## Mattias504 (May 11, 2011)

so_sleepy said:


> A real Kramer 10" 52100 knife is _only_ $1,500 at today's rate.


 
And for that money, I'd rather get something from Devin or one of the guys that contribute to the forum and are a part of this community.


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## JohnnyChance (May 11, 2011)

Salty dog said:


> I'll be attending. Hehe.


 
Are you planning on showing up with a knife roll full of Nehoni's, Devin's, Rader's, Masamoto's, Mizuno's, Fowler's, and Ealy's and then playing dumb?


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## JohnnyChance (May 11, 2011)

Depending on when my local SLT gets these, I might have to bring to ECG, and you can all poke and prod (and use and sharpen) it all you like.


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## Salty dog (May 11, 2011)

JohnnyChance said:


> Are you planning on showing up with a knife roll full of Nehoni's, Devin's, Rader's, Masamoto's, Mizuno's, Fowler's, and Ealy's and then playing dumb?



No. Just playing dumb.

Honestly though, I hope he'll accept my invitation to show him around town, talk knives and stop and see NoChop.


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## Mattias504 (May 11, 2011)

I must say that it is exciting to see a major knife company actually producing carbon steel knives again. Hopefully this is a trend towards bettering the general public. Also, the more I look at these, the more I kinda want one. It would be cool to see some Meiji's like this later down the line.


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## Salty dog (May 11, 2011)

My guess is I'll end up buying one.

Then I'll invite him out.


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## Mattias504 (May 11, 2011)

Good to know. We'll definitely get an honest review from you.


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## kalaeb (May 11, 2011)

I wonder what they are going to do with all the knives that get returned by all the little rich kids who freak out when they rust. I will take one of those for half price, polish it up and call it good.


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## JohnnyChance (May 12, 2011)

kalaeb said:


> I wonder what they are going to do with all the knives that get returned by all the little rich kids who freak out when they rust. I will take one of those for half price, polish it up and call it good.


 
You don't want to know what SLT does with returned items.


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## watercrawl (May 12, 2011)

They throw them in the garbage out back.....I did it many times.


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## Lefty (May 12, 2011)

I smell business opportunity! Haha


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## Eamon Burke (May 12, 2011)

Where's that dumpster? 
*googles SLT*


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## EdipisReks (May 12, 2011)

watercrawl said:


> They throw them in the garbage out back.....I did it many times.


 
really? wow.


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## Avishar (May 13, 2011)

Yep, if the RTV says no, then its gotta go! Most knives get the yes from the vendors though and are sent back to the manufacturer regardless of the shape they are in though, as are a lot of the more expensive cookware like LC and Staubs.


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## JohnnyChance (May 13, 2011)

Yep. Most knives go back to the OEM, as do electronics, but pretty much everything else is supposed to be "destroyed". They dont want employees taking **** home and selling it on ebay so everything is supposed to be tossed.


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