# ******** Fanatic



## 454Casull (Dec 26, 2011)

Anybody try this one yet? Is it a worthy alternative to the Tojiro F-631?

http://www.**************.com/rifa1.html
http://www.**************.com/tojirocleaver1.html

Not many great SS cleavers around.


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## kalaeb (Dec 26, 2011)

454Casull said:


> Anybody try this one yet? Is it a worthy alternative to the Tojiro F-631?
> 
> http://www.**************.com/rifa1.html
> http://www.**************.com/tojirocleaver1.html
> ...



The knife is not even closly related to the Tojiro. The Tojiro comes in at a hefty 650+ grams with the Fanatic is closer to 200. I have never tried the Tojiro, but the other is a pretty good knife. Thin, sharp with reasonable edge retention. Fashioned after the CCK 1303, I can't really find any major flaws with it, except for a bit much flex where the tang meets the handle which could crack the ferrule.


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## echerub (Dec 26, 2011)

200 seems a bit too light for a cleaver... well, but the dimensions in general for the Fanatic are all a bit smaller, too. That's a bit of a negative, in my opinion.


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## kalaeb (Dec 26, 2011)

echerub said:


> 200 seems a bit too light for a cleaver... well, but the dimensions in general for the Fanatic are all a bit smaller, too. That's a bit of a negative, in my opinion.



Sorry, I should have said 200 ish, I don't have mine here to weight but it is close. For many, this is a detriment as many are used to the weight of a #6 or close. This is really a small slicer, certainly on the light side of a #3. I am used to light weight cleavers so for me it was a good buy.


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## 99Limited (Dec 26, 2011)

My Fanatic weighs 256g with a 209mm edge. For a vegetable cleaver it seem to be a pretty good size to me. I've inspected the tang area and tried to flex handle and blade and it's plenty sturdy. I like the fact that it's made out of AEB-L and hardened to HRC 61 which should make it a pretty durable cleaver. Another sweet thing about this cleaver is you can put a really keen edge on it.


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## Eamon Burke (Dec 26, 2011)

It's a CCK 1303 with MUCH better steel, made via stock removal(which barely makes a difference here). The grind isn't exactly the same, but it performs very similar. Basically, if you love the CCK 1303, but don't love the "rustic" F&F(let's face, it's fugly), orange patina, yellow stains on food, and rusting, and complete lack of edge-holding, the Fanatic is what you want.

I can't say how it compares to other cleavers in it's price range, like a Sugimoto or Suien VC, because I've never used those. But I would say it's a fairly self-explanatory knife.


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## jaybett (Dec 27, 2011)

I don't know how you define great? Inexpensive? Stainless Steel? Size?

The Addict is a small cleaver, stainless, at a good price. 

The Tojiro is a full size cleaver. The weight sounds like a #7 chopping cleaver, instead of a slicer. Reviews have been mixed. A cleaver guru was impressed by the one he got, others have not been as positive. 

If I were going to get a high end stainless cleaver, and keeping costs, some what in line, would probably be the Mizuno. The best fit and finish, is the forum cleaver. The best stainless cleaver, might be the Tadatsuna. If its profile and grind are similar to the white steel version, that was discontinued. 

Jay


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## Seb (Dec 27, 2011)

jaybett said:


> I don't know how you define great? Inexpensive? Stainless Steel? Size?
> 
> The Addict is a small cleaver, stainless, at a good price.
> 
> ...



You sound authoritative... which of those cleavers do you own?


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## malacara (Dec 27, 2011)

Well, I don´t have the Fanatic but I do have the Tojiro. Mine is not that heavy, it is "only" 509 grams and although I prefer lighter cleavers I like that extra weigth for certain tasks and I still enjoy a lot using it from time to time. However as an all around cleaver I would rather have one between 400 and 450 grams (and 22x11 cm). Lesser than that seems more than a nakiri or gyuto to me and I don´t really feel confortable with it. My Misono is 350 grams and I find it annoyingly light (and small) these days.



> If I were going to get a high end stainless cleaver, and keeping costs, some what in line, would probably be the Mizuno. The best fit and finish, is the forum cleaver. The best stainless cleaver, might be the Tadatsuna. If its profile and grind are similar to the white steel version, that was discontinued.
> 
> Jay



If I could only have one of my cleavers it would probably be the Mizuno stainless cleaver, perfect weigt, can get insanely sharp, superb profile, crazy thin (as thin as my cck 1103) and by no means weak, or the Tadatsuna inox cleaver, similar to the Mizuno, perfect weigt, can get insanely sharp, superb profile... (very thin too although not as much as the Mizuno) but with a (to me) even better blade shape. I don´t know much about the forum cleaver but to me it bears certain resemblace with the Tojiro (full size cleaver, VG10, around 500 grams...) but sure it is a exceptional cleaver too.


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## 454Casull (Dec 27, 2011)

Is this the one?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Japanese...668?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4eba49c


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## malacara (Dec 27, 2011)

454Casull said:


> Is this the one?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Japanese...668?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4eba49c



Not exactly, the handle is different, the f631 is entirely made of metal but I think the blade is the same. This one seems to be lighter.

BTW I bought his brother (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Japanese...448?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4eba7a8) long time ago from this same seller and I couldn´t be happier. A totally different kind of cleaver though. I would be absolutely happy only with this one and the Mizuno or the Tadatsuna.


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## jaybett (Dec 27, 2011)

malacara said:


> If I could only have one of my cleavers it would probably be the Mizuno stainless cleaver, perfect weigt, can get insanely sharp, superb profile, crazy thin (as thin as my cck 1103) and by no means weak, or the Tadatsuna inox cleaver, similar to the Mizuno, perfect weigt, can get insanely sharp, superb profile... (very thin too although not as much as the Mizuno) but with a (to me) even better blade shape. I don´t know much about the forum cleaver but to me it bears certain resemblace with the Tojiro (full size cleaver, VG10, around 500 grams...) but sure it is a exceptional cleaver too.



Interesting...I wasn't aware that the Mizuno stainless was so thin. The edge looks flat compared to the carbon version. On the Tadatsuna white steel cleaver, the spine is approximately 3-4mm, but quickly tapers down to 1mm or so, at the tip. Does the inox version, have a similar profile? 

Jay


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## malacara (Dec 27, 2011)

jaybett said:


> Interesting...I wasn't aware that the Mizuno stainless was so thin. The edge looks flat compared to the carbon version. On the Tadatsuna white steel cleaver, the spine is approximately 3-4mm, but quickly tapers down to 1mm or so, at the tip. Does the inox version, have a similar profile?
> 
> Jay



I don´t have a calliper but I´d say that the spine is about 2 mm wide close to the handle and only barely narrower at the tip. BTW a couple of months ago Tadatsuna had white steel cleavers available. I already had the inox version and I didn´t go for it. I think the next one (and for sure my last one) will have to be the Sugimoto #6.

Regarding to the Mizuno, yes it really is thin. I don´t know if this is relevant but Koki got me a lighter one than is stated in JCK webpage (mine weights 443 grams instead of the expected 465 grams). It is quite flat, not dead flat but only slightly less flat than the CCK (the flatter one I have). The Tadatsuna edge is almost dead flat in its two first thirds and then rounds very nicely at the tip.


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## jaybett (Dec 27, 2011)

malacara said:


> I don´t have a calliper but I´d say that the spine is about 2 mm wide close to the handle and only barely narrower at the tip. BTW a couple of months ago Tadatsuna had white steel cleavers available. I already had the inox version and I didn´t go for it. I think the next one (and for sure my last one) will have to be the Sugimoto #6.
> 
> Regarding to the Mizuno, yes it really is thin. I don´t know if this is relevant but Koki got me a lighter one than is stated in JCK webpage (mine weights 443 grams instead of the expected 465 grams). It is quite flat, not dead flat but only slightly less flat than the CCK (the flatter one I have). The Tadatsuna edge is almost dead flat in its two first thirds and then rounds very nicely at the tip.



Thanks for the information. Interesting how the stainless models from the same manufacturer are so different then the carbon models.

Somebody contacted Tadatsuna, a few years ago, inquiring about their white steel cleaver. The reply was that the white steel model was going to be discontinued because the maker had retired. Occasionally white steel ones pop up for sale. I wonder if Tadatsuna is finding old back stock?

Sugimoto #6 is a versatile knife with its distal taper. Thin up front for slicing, thicker towards the heel for chopping. It has the most comfortable handle found on a production cleaver. I think its the ideal handle type for cleavers. The spine is slightly rounded. The choil is rounded on the right hand side, but not the left. Size and weight are ideal. It's nimble for a cleaver, with all the benefits of a full size cleaver. 
It's no where as thin as the Mizuno or Tadatsuna, but more of an all around knife. 

Jay


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## 454Casull (Dec 27, 2011)

malacara said:


> Not exactly, the handle is different, the f631 is entirely made of metal but I think the blade is the same. This one seems to be lighter.
> 
> BTW I bought his brother (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Japanese...448?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4eba7a8) long time ago from this same seller and I couldn´t be happier. A totally different kind of cleaver though. I would be absolutely happy only with this one and the Mizuno or the Tadatsuna.


The one you have is supposedly much thicker at 3.5 mm.


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## malacara (Dec 28, 2011)

454Casull said:


> The one you have is supposedly much thicker at 3.5 mm.



I´ve got both. the f631 is aproximately 2 mm in and the 920 3.5 mm.



> Sugimoto #6 is a versatile knife with its distal taper. Thin up front for slicing, thicker towards the heel for chopping. It has the most comfortable handle found on a production cleaver. I think its the ideal handle type for cleavers. The spine is slightly rounded. The choil is rounded on the right hand side, but not the left. Size and weight are ideal. It's nimble for a cleaver, with all the benefits of a full size cleaver.
> It's no where as thin as the Mizuno or Tadatsuna, but more of an all around knife.
> 
> Jay



Thanks for the info, very appreciated. This knife doesn´t appear in the forums often these days


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## 454Casull (Dec 28, 2011)

malacara said:


> I´ve got both. the f631 is aproximately 2 mm in and the 920 3.5 mm.


If the F-631 is almost half as thick, how is it more than 100 grams heavier than the F-920? Is the handle really that heavy? The balance would be moved quite a bit back, no?


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## Eamon Burke (Dec 29, 2011)

I also think, surprisingly, that I like the cck's round handle a little more. Cleavers need handles with more girth than a wa handle. Maybe I just have long fingers.


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## JohnnyChance (Dec 29, 2011)

Any non cleaver discussion from this point forward will be removed. If you want to talk about the Fanatic or any other cleaver, please do so. If you don't have anything to add on that topic, please refrain from posting. If this does not slow it down, all non-cleaver related posts in this thread will be removed, past and future.

If you have any questions, comments or concerns, please PM me. Thanks guys.


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## jaybett (Dec 29, 2011)

kalaeb said:


> Man, this started as a pretty good cleaver discussion. Would have been nice to leave it at that. For what its worth I stil like the fanatic.



Out of curiosity what is it about the Fanatic that you like? I figure it's a small thin stainless knife at a good price for people who want to try a cleaver. 

Jay


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## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 29, 2011)

I owned a cleaver briefly and then sold it to Will Spear (haven't seen or heard from him, where is Will?)

It was a pretty heavy cleaver and with a short stubby handle (round). The handle was just right for it, despite the size. There is something to be said about short handles on a cleaver.

M

PS: Good call, JC -


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## jaybett (Dec 29, 2011)

johndoughy said:


> I also think, surprisingly, that I like the cck's round handle a little more. Cleavers need handles with more girth than a wa handle. Maybe I just have long fingers.



I find that wa handles are too long for cleavers. Since a cleaver is held by blade. A cleaver handle needs to be thick and stubby. Personally I think the Sugimoto handles are ideal. Rectangle shaped with the top and bottom rounded off. 

Jay


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## JohnnyChance (Dec 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> It was a pretty heavy cleaver and with a short stubby handle (round). The handle was just right for it, despite the size. There is something to be said about short handles on a cleaver



Yeah, I do love the short stubby cleaver handles. Perhaps one of your new D-handles in cleaver dimensions should be experimented upon....it sounds wicked comfy.


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## Johnny.B.Good (Dec 29, 2011)

JohnnyChance said:


> Perhaps one of your new D-handles in cleaver dimensions should be experimented upon....it sounds wicked comfy.



And just as importantly, good looking.


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## Jim (Dec 29, 2011)

JohnnyChance said:


> Any non cleaver discussion from this point forward will be removed. If you want to talk about the Fanatic or any other cleaver, please do so. If you don't have anything to add on that topic, please refrain from posting. If this does not slow it down, all non-cleaver related posts in this thread will be removed, past and future.
> 
> If you have any questions, comments or concerns, please PM me. Thanks guys.




This thread has been pruned and the off topic posts removed. Any comments or feedback on how the KKF is run, are very welcome to be posted in the Site Feedback forum.
As policy we really have no interest in censoring anyone's opinion or thoughts. However in this context, ax grinding or fanboyism is not welcome either- Real feedback about vendors and their wares are welcome in the appropriate forum. 
Thank you-


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## Eamon Burke (Dec 29, 2011)

Oooo a Marko d-handle on a cleaver...


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## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 29, 2011)

I think oval will be more appropriate. I have held cleavers with octagonal handles (Takeda and Moritaka) and didn't like them as much, in part because they were full-size handles and in part because of the sharp corners of an octagonal handle. Shape the handle into an oval shape, shorten it and use a pinch grip holding a cleaver and you have a complete different experience. 

M


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## jaybett (Dec 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> I think oval will be more appropriate. I have held cleavers with octagonal handles (Takeda and Moritaka) and didn't like them as much, in part because they were full-size handles and in part because of the sharp corners of an octagonal handle. Shape the handle into an oval shape, shorten it and use a pinch grip holding a cleaver and you have a complete different experience.
> 
> M


The most comfortable cleaver handles have a bit of taper, where they attach to the knife. The taper relieves pressure on the middle or ring finger, depending on which grip is used. 

Jay


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## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 29, 2011)

jaybett said:


> The most comfortable cleaver handles have a bit of taper, where they attach to the knife. The taper relieves pressure on the middle or ring finger, depending on which grip is used.
> 
> Jay



Makes sense. To taper an oval handle is pretty easy. Do you guys think D-handle would work for a cleaver? Not that I have any plans for cleavers, just curios.

M


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## Johnny.B.Good (Dec 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> Do you guys think D-handle would work for a cleaver?



Don't know. Sounds good. If I can get my hands on a quality blade, I will happily volunteer it to you for experimentation!


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## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 29, 2011)

Good luck fishing.


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## jaybett (Dec 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> Makes sense. To taper an oval handle is pretty easy. Do you guys think D-handle would work for a cleaver? Not that I have any plans for cleavers, just curios.
> 
> M



If the diameter was increased, and the length shortened, for a cleaver, I think it would work nicely. 

Jay


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## kalaeb (Dec 29, 2011)

jaybett said:


> Out of curiosity what is it about the Fanatic that you like? I figure it's a small thin stainless knife at a good price for people who want to try a cleaver.
> 
> Jay



Jay, I don't have a heavier cleaver for comparison, the only cleavers I have used are the CCK 1303 (very similar) and a J. Jones at almost double the weight. I prefer the extra weight behind the Jones cleaver, but not sure I would be able to use something in the 500-600 gram range as I am a reasonably small guy. I like the height of the fanatic only 90mm vs. most at 100-110, the length is perfect. I don't have calipers, but the spine thickness appears to be about 2mm tapering down to more than half that, probably around .9mm. I personally prefer the slight belly of the Fanatic over the relative flatness of the cck as I find both chopping and push cutting easier. The tip is thin 
enough to make more delicate work painless.

The CCK in my experience has never been particularly reactive so the stainless v carbon is a non issue for me. Overall it is a good knife
for a reasonable price. The edge last longer than the CCK and the fit and finish is superior by a fair margin making the 149.00, imo, well worth it.


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## Eamon Burke (Dec 29, 2011)

jaybett said:


> If the diameter was increased, and the length shortened, for a cleaver, I think it would work nicely.
> 
> Jay



lus1:

I think a horn ferrule(provided it is rounded where your hand goes) on a cleaver would feel great.


I just think that, despite the fact that it is ugly, cheapo steel, poorly fitted, and ground for production, the CCK 1303 hits the heart of what kept the Chinese Cleaver around for so long--it's a shockingly elegant solution to the "cutting food" question. I will work a day with my CCK1303 over knives worth hundreds of dollars. You have to learn how to use it, but even the metal ferrule thingy is shaped, spaced, and placed in a way that is surprisingly workable and comfortable.


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## echerub (Dec 29, 2011)

I really liked my CCK for the time that I used it (as in, before I put it somewhere in the house and forgot where exactly). It was a great introduction to good cleavers - it wiped away what I had thought for years about cleavers based on the super-cheapie items I'd seen over and over.

If I remember correctly, that thing was taller than 90mm right?

When I hold a cleaver, I've got my index and middle fingers riding down the outside of the blade and based on a quick "ruler test" here at my desk, I think my middle finger gets down about 75mm from the spine. 15mm more to go to the edge doesn't seem like a helluva lot of distance remaining. That's why I keep thinking 90mm is a tad short, but I suppose one could just use a regular pinch grip without issue 

I have to admit I'm still curious about the knife, but with a number of nakiri and a few "full-size" cleavers to choose from, I'm not sure where something the size of the Fanatic would fit in.

Might be a good size for those who don't already have either nakiri or full-size cleavers, I dunno...


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## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 29, 2011)

Johnny.B.Good said:


> Don't know. Sounds good. If I can get my hands on a quality blade, I will happily volunteer it to you for experimentation!



Tell you what. If you get a cleaver from Devin (directly), I will be happy to do the handle. Would be a fun project. 

M


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## mhlee (Dec 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> Tell you what. If you get a cleaver from Devin (directly), I will be happy to do the handle. Would be a fun project.
> 
> M



That is an offer you can't refuse!!!

Makes me want to get a cleaver from Devin!!!


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## Johnny.B.Good (Dec 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> Tell you what. If you get a cleaver from Devin (directly), I will be happy to do the handle. Would be a fun project.



Really? Book it then!

I started talking to Devin about a cleaver a week or two ago. At the time, I told him the only thing I wasn't sure about was the handle. I consider your handles artwork, and am sure I would be pleased with whatever you came up with.

I would call Devin right now if I didn't think he was preoccupied with the birth of his first grandson today!


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## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 29, 2011)

I spoke to Devin. He said he will make it, so make arrangements. 

M


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## Johnny.B.Good (Dec 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> I spoke to Devin. He said he will make it, so make arrangements.



Wow! I can't remember the last time I heard such exciting news.

I sent Devin another PM (picking up where we left off on December 10th when we last discussed his making me a cleaver) one minute after you said you would make a handle and told him that I will do whatever I have to do (short of selling an organ) to get one of his blades into your hands.

Edit: I'm not a doctor. There may be certain organs I could do without. I retract my previous statement.


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## tkern (Dec 29, 2011)

Organ selling group buy? I'm pretty sure I have an appendix that can go. Does Devin accept body parts?


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## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 29, 2011)

If the new handle cleaver is a success, maybe he will consider offering them as a product (make that type handle himself)? Both his AEB-L and 52100 are great steel choices for cleavers not counting few other steels he has in his arsenal. And those can be san mai stainless clad. 

M


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## Johnny.B.Good (Dec 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> If the new handle cleaver is a success, maybe he will consider offering them as a product (make that type handle himself)? Both his AEB-L and 52100 are great steel choices for cleavers not counting few other steels he has in his arsenal. And those can be san mai stainless clad.



How could a Hoss cleaver with a Marko handle be anything but a success? I had AEB-L in mind when I approached Devin a few weeks ago, but if wants to try something different, that's fine too. What a great day!


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## Eamon Burke (Dec 29, 2011)

Johnny, when it's done, you know you are going to need to post a thousand pictures.


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## Johnny.B.Good (Dec 29, 2011)

johndoughy said:


> Johnny, when it's done, you know you are going to need to post a thousand pictures.



I promise I'll post some pictures, but hopefully Marko will take a few (I can't do what he can do with a camera) and/or host a WIP thread in his subforum as he works out the handle design.

When I saw the message from Devin confirming that he is in, I went straight away and purchased a supporting member subscription, as this wouldn't be happening without this forum. So in addition to Marko and Devin, thank you Dave (and all those who help him make this place what it is). I should probably purchase a few Super Lotto tickers while I'm at it!


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## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 29, 2011)

Wow, I didn't think a knife can make a person so happy. I think I am missing something here... :O

I will do my best. 


M


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## Johnny.B.Good (Dec 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> Wow, I didn't think a knife can make a person that happy.



Well, we're not talking about just _any_ knife, are we? :bliss:


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## kalaeb (Dec 29, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> Wow, I didn't think a knife can make a person so happy.
> 
> 
> M



Pretty sure that is why we are all here.


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## Dave Martell (Dec 30, 2011)

Johnny.B.Good said:


> When I saw the message from Devin confirming that he is in, I went straight away and purchased a supporting member subscription, as this wouldn't be happening without this forum.




Thanks!


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## Eamon Burke (Dec 30, 2011)

Success!


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## 454Casull (Jan 5, 2013)

Girlfriend ordered an F-920 for me. Will update when I receive it.


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## NO ChoP! (Jan 5, 2013)

I had a couple 1303's. Always enjoyed them, but ultimately the novelty wore off, and they found their way to the drawer. At my new gig, I found myself doing tasks I remembered the 1303 blowing through with ease...so I got the bug. I looked around, and settled on an 1103. I am quite impressed, to be honest. I sanders it down with some 600 grit to get rid of any laquer, and am still having a hard time getting this thing to patina. Not sure of where the talk of CCK's being overly reactive comes from....

I also looked at the fanatic, but really scratched my head at the machi...I don't get it.

So if I'm impressed with a $70 CCK, will I be blown away by a $375 cleaver? I noticed there isn't much in the middle ground between CCK and Mizuno, as an example. Maybe the Suien....


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## Dusty (Jan 5, 2013)

This is totally my situation with cleavers as well. Suien looks attractive, but has a bit too much belly. Not really willing to dish out nearly 400 bucks for a mizuno or a sugimoto. Still pull out a cck once a week, once a fortnight.


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## pleue (Jan 5, 2013)

I own a fanatic and I love it. I have the first model, which has a bit more belly which works well for me surprisingly as I generally like a knife with a pretty flat profile. It does has a large bit of board contact with the belly and all, but that slight curve toward the tip helps when drawing the knife back and makes it feel more fluid. I love the height, took a while to get used to, but just a tad taller than my index finger which makes wiping the knife off with my index/thumb pinched over the blade not a pain in the butt. Handle is thin, but the different pinch grips I use seem to work well with it. The steel is awesome, really fun to sharpen and it takes and holds a great edge that is easily refreshed. I have a 270 gyuto and a nakiri as well on the line, and I use them all daily. The clever usually comes out with doing large prep tasks like mincing green onions, dicing veg, etc. It has its place, but it's kind of hard to explain. Never regretted getting it, don't think I'd ever part with it, unless someone gave me that takeda in the b/s/t.


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## brainsausage (Jan 5, 2013)

I just read through this entire thread and I'm curious as to whether the Hoss/Marko collabo ever came to completion?


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## mindbender (Jan 6, 2013)

pleue said:


> I own a fanatic and I love it. I have the first model, which has a bit more belly which works well for me surprisingly as I generally like a knife with a pretty flat profile.



Agreed. I love the edge that my AEB-L Fanatic holds for the price. A great buy if you dig cleavers.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 6, 2013)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> I owned a cleaver briefly and then sold it to Will Spear (haven't seen or heard from him, where is Will?)
> 
> It was a pretty heavy cleaver and with a short stubby handle (round). The handle was just right for it, despite the size. There is something to be said about short handles on a cleaver.
> 
> ...



I like short stubby handles on cleavers,the handle jambed rt, up against the blade,so easy pinch grip.The chinese know what they are doing.That Fanatic cleaver,the AEB-L steel is good,it has more rocker than the 1303.A skinny little octagon handle set way back because the tang is too thick for it to get close to the blade.It is not Buff. Horn,it's wood that will split if tang is pushed in too far.Result is a cleaver that feels way too blade forward.

What can I say,I'll take my 1301 anyday,that rather ill designed cleaver I gave away


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## tomsch (Jan 7, 2013)

So far I'm also liking AEB-L based steel on my Artifex experience. Not up to M390, K390, or CTS-204P but it is a middle of the road steel for the price. 




mindbender said:


> Agreed. I love the edge that my AEB-L Fanatic holds for the price. A great buy if you dig cleavers.


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## Dave Martell (Jan 7, 2013)

If you want to experience AEB-L at it's peak you need to get a custom knife from Devin Thomas - he's the AEB-L KING! That's a great steel but maybe only OK when factory heat treat.


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## El Pescador (Jan 7, 2013)

Dave Martell said:


> If you want to experience AEB-L at it's peak you need to get a custom knife from Devin Thomas - he's the AEB-L KING! That's a great steel but maybe only OK when factory heat treat.



+1... My ITK is such a pleasure to use.


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## Crothcipt (Jan 8, 2013)

El Pescador said:


> +1... My ITK is such a pleasure to use.



+100

have used a couple other knives with aeb-l and not the same at all.


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## mindbender (Jan 9, 2013)

Dave Martell said:


> If you want to experience AEB-L at it's peak you need to get a custom knife from Devin Thomas - he's the AEB-L KING! That's a great steel but maybe only OK when factory heat treat.



Agreed. The heat treatment on my ITK does kill everything else out there.

Will DT ever come out with his cleaver again?


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