# Need a little help with a THIN 240 gyuto



## Matus (Aug 4, 2016)

Hi,

I am contenplating getting a THIN 240 gyuto to accompany my newly acquired Munetoshi 240 which is a very enjoyable knife, but is not the best for hard tall vegetables.

My preferences are:
- thin, no wedging
- WA handle (or no handle at all - I can make one myself)
- preferably stainless or semi-stainless, but carbon would be OK too
- preferably under $/ 300 (used is also an option)
- as little flex as possible

I have sofar identified the following knives that could fit:
- Gesshin Ginga
- Konosuke HD/HD2
- Konosuke GS 
- Sakai Yusuke (I have just contacted bluewayjapan and waiting for an answer)
- Itinomonn StainLess (ist it 'thin enough' ?)
- Suisin INOX honyaki (bit too expensive)
- Ikkanshi Tadatuna INOX

My questions: 
- what would you pick and why?
- are there other options I should consider?

Thanks


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## jessf (Aug 4, 2016)

What about a matus blade?


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## RDalman (Aug 4, 2016)

I vote matus blade as well


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## preizzo (Aug 4, 2016)

Shibata knives are super thin, bit flexible and just under 300 usd. 
Is the only laser I have in my collection


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## preizzo (Aug 4, 2016)

Btw I would go with the konosuke hd


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 4, 2016)

Matus, You'll get a stiffer blade with San Mai than mono-steel. If you can score a Kono. Ginsan 240, its ultra thin and cuts like a dream in a bad a$$ steel with incredible F/F. The 210 is thicker at the spine with more distal taper. A 240 was posted for sale on a non-vendor site last week. All be it, they are pretty hard to come by.


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## LucasFur (Aug 4, 2016)

I had a kikuichi Damascus that was 240 stainless and was pretty rigid. - needed to get rid of some blades to replace with others.


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## Matus (Aug 4, 2016)

RDalman said:


> I vote matus blade as well



You guys got me there  I have actually yet to sharpen and finally USE the gyuto I made, though at 195g (or so I recall) it is not quite in the same category. I have no idea why I have not done that yet - I guess I needed a pause from it after so many hours of hand sanding


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## Matus (Aug 4, 2016)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Matus, You'll get a stiffer blade with San Mai than mono-steel. If you can score a Kono. Ginsan 240, its ultra thin and cuts like a dream in a bad a$$ steel with incredible F/F. The 210 is thicker at the spine with more distal taper. A 240 was posted for sale on a non-vendor site last week. All be it, they are pretty hard to come by.



Your advice confirms my impression that often san-mai blades tend to be stiffer than monosteel knives. I have not heard about the Konosuke Ginsan before - I will check it out.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 4, 2016)

I've owned/used all of them. I rate them in this order: 

- Suisin INOX honyaki - Best fit and finish by a hair; very easy to sharpen; uniquely shaped wa-handle (octagonal on the top, rounded on the bottom); the only downsides are the screened, rather than etched/engraved kanji and that it has a machi, which some find objectionable.

- Ikkanshi Tadatsuna INOX - I used this as my daily driver for several months, and can only fault it for food release (which is a common fault of all thin blades); sold it, and have regretted it; if I had to choose between the Suisin and the Tadatsuna I'd have to flip a coin.

- Gesshin Ginga - Almost on par with the Suisin and Tadatsuna; difficult to find in stock.

- Sakai Yusuke - Fit and finish not up to the Suisin, Tadatsuna or Ginga; screened kanji (if that's important).

- Konosuke HD/HD2 - At one time these knives were a good value, but the price has increased way beyond what they are worth. HD/HD2 steel is prone to staining, and had no discernible advantage, at least for me. 

- Konosuke GS - I had one of the early knives, not the latest GS+. Nothing really wrong with it, just nothing that made it stand out for me; the clad construction should make thinning easier; the handles on the GS+ that CKtG sells are just downright ugly, IMO, but you might find them pleasing to your eye.

- Itinomonn Stainless - Not a very thin knife at all, so it may not meet your specifications. FWIW, I found the one I had to be a good compromise between a very thin blade and a thicker one, like the Toyama or Watanabe.


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## Mangelwurzel (Aug 4, 2016)

How about one of Jon's new Ikazuchis?? It looks crazy thin, even compared to a Ginga!


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## KitchenCommander (Aug 4, 2016)

+1 for Shibata Kotetsu. Really like mine, great quality with a nice rosewood handle. Good choice if you like stainless. 
I am also intrigued by the Ikazuchi due to the stainless cladding on the AS core. I would give those a look too.


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## Krassi (Aug 4, 2016)

Hi
-Shibata Kotetsus are the most lasering lasers .. the only weird one is one 210mm got here for testing and it cuts bad .. sorry but the 190mm bunka cuts godlike compared to this (well it actually always cuts godlike).. the kiritsuke gyuto shape is very nice!
..i guess if i would be allowed to jnat it and re polish the flanks it would also cut godlike and would rock totally

-Ashi stainless are awesome and cut mostly better than the Konosuke equivalents (tested this with a 260mm stainless kiritsuke and the shirogami konosuke was bad compared to the ashi so my friend was frustrated and tried to resharpen it  ..well i have no comparison with gyutos)
just sad that you cant order directly and choose a super awesome handle any more ;(


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## Matus (Aug 4, 2016)

Thanks! You guys are awesome.

PT, that is a very detailed overview. I have included the Kono GS because I can buy it without handle in EU for about 200

I am going to have a closer look to Suisin and Tadatsuna.

I do realize that the Itinomonn stainless may not be quite as laser (165g), but it still looks interesting - and is available in EU

About the other ideas:

Ikazuchi - yes, I am aware of them and discussed them briefly with Jon. The profile does have a little more belly than I may want and according to Jon the Ginga is ever so slightly more stiff. But it is still a very attractive at that price point.

Shibata Kotetsu - seems like these only come with kiritsuke shaped tip and I am not sure I like the profile. Maybe I just need to look at them for a longer time


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## JDA_NC (Aug 4, 2016)

I would strongly consider the Sukenari R2 from Knives & Stones.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/sukenari-sg2-r2-gyuto-240mm-with-saya/

It's slightly north of your budget but it comes with a nice looking saya & semi-custom handle.

I own the ZDP-189 version (although not from K&S - but still the same blade) and it is extremely thin - yet also fairly stiff. Easily one of my favorite knives, if not my favorite.

Here are some pictures of it against a Gesshin Ginga and a Takamura:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...west-knife-buy?p=392433&viewfull=1#post392433


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## daveb (Aug 4, 2016)

Can't argue with Rick's assessment though for me, when price is considered, the coin toss is between the Ginga and the Tad. I recently tossed that coin and went with my second Ginga - sold the first one and damn...

In Europe shipping may be significant and tilt towards the Tad.

Not a bad knife between the three. No first hand experience with kono.


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## bennyprofane (Aug 4, 2016)

Korin France hast the Suisin on sale at the moment. 300 for the 240.


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## TurboScooter (Aug 4, 2016)

JDA_NC said:


> I would strongly consider the Sukenari R2 from Knives & Stones.
> 
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/sukenari-sg2-r2-gyuto-240mm-with-saya/
> 
> ...





Kippington said:


> Interesting, I never considered this knife to be that thin, but you're probably right. I guess it's all relative.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I started searching for reviews of these, because I was interested in it. Reviews/descriptions for it seem all over the place - some people say it's thin and cuts well other people say it's average.

Klippington has a couple videos in that thread, including his 240mm doing prep, and there's at least one more on YouTube that shows a 210mm in use.

The forum that cannot be named had a passaround of a 240mm ginsanko version, and the same knife gets pretty different impressions by different people.

JKI carries the 240mm non forged ginsanko version for $175, if you want to go that route for under budget.


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## Ruso (Aug 4, 2016)

I have HD2 and Ginga Stainless. I prefer Ginga, but HD2 has little bit less flex. Never had any issue with either or in this regard tho.
Also Ginga is thinner behind the edge. HD2 has better stock F&F. 

Bottom line, I dont use my Kono much anymore; Ginga used to have it nice share of board contact till recent.

Also, Ikazuchis from Jon looks very interesting; but you gotta add $35+ for shipping and possible border tax


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## foody518 (Aug 5, 2016)

TurboScooter do you mean JCK for the Sukenari?


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## jessf (Aug 5, 2016)

Dude, you need to get on that, could save you some money. My purchased knives don't get any use anymore but have become the benchmark by which i compare the ones i make. Not to say mine are necessarily better, but i have certainly become less enthused by my purchased ones as i unlock their secretes for a fraction of the cost. 



Matus said:


> You guys got me there  I have actually yet to sharpen and finally USE the gyuto I made, though at 195g (or so I recall) it is not quite in the same category. I have no idea why I have not done that yet - I guess I needed a pause from it after so many hours of hand sanding


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## Badgertooth (Aug 5, 2016)

Not much experience on the laser end of the spectrum but I really enjoy my HD2.


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## JaVa (Aug 5, 2016)

Matus you said thin, didn't say laser? So I'm betting the Itinomonn stain-less would work great. 

Now I have no first hand experience with it, but some weeks ago I had help me choose a knife thread asking for gyuto with a long flat spot, a rocking tip and good distal taper. Someone was probably spot on with the Itinomon. Now I have my eye on it and will get one for sure in the near future.

I read couple of reviews on it and it was praised of it's cutting abilities. Just look at that distal taper in the photo at JNS. It should give the knife laser-ish qualities. AND look at that close to perfection profile? You alredy know that's my wheel house right there! 

Here's couple other ideas at Cleancut from Sweden so easy breazy to order their stuff to germany:

http://cleancut.se/butik/knivmodeller/kockknivar/kockkniv-6-detail
I ordered one couple of days ago, should arrive today. I'll chime in more when i have it in my hand. Veery attractive pricing. It's only 1,1mm at the spine and only 149g for a 240 mm. That's a sirious lightsaber! Just look at that profile!!! It´s carbon though.

Here is the european re brand for Kohetsus, the Co Say:
http://cleancut.se/butik/knivmodeller/kockknivar/gyuto-2-2237-detail
Stainless clad carbon. Same profile and geometry as my Kohetsu Hap40. Good cutter, laser performance but slightly curved belly.

Here is Kohetsu Hap40 only rebranded as Kohsey hap40
Great steel, great cutter but again slightly curved belly. No experience with the vendor though.

...And finally there's the Tanaka VG10 damascus. It's a laser performer with one of the best grinds around, but the profile has a continues curve at the belly.


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## lapointeus (Aug 5, 2016)

I own a few lasers, and honestly... The Sakai Yusuke puts them to shame. The fit and finish is flawless and the steel is remarkable on White 2.


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## Badgertooth (Aug 5, 2016)

I completely forgot about my Tsukiji Masamoto. Killer profile, takes a nasty edge and falls through food. Stiff for a skinny


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## Matus (Aug 5, 2016)

(also) this is why I love this place  And selecting a new knife is so much fun 

I have have noticed the Sukenari R2 from James, but seeing the weight of 200g I did not pay more attention,though I guess that the ebony handle adds soe 30 - 40 gram compared to simple Ho wood handle. It does look very nice though.

As of now the ordering from JKI would not carry a premium as I have an opened order with Jon anyhow, so JKI is definitely included 

Jessf, yes you are right. But at the same time I need to have a few knives with different grinds at home to have that comparison - is that good enough as an excuse? 

JaVa - thanks for the heads up on Shiro Kamo and Kohetsu (which I though only come with kiritsuke-like tips)

The Tanaka looks interesting, but the grind is not quite as thin.

I am still waiting for a reply on the Sakai Yusuke from bluewayjapan ...

The Tsukiji Masamoto does look nice, but seems a little pricey for a knife made from SK steel.

Benny - I am not seeing any discount on the korin-france webpage for the Suisin ... ?


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## TurboScooter (Aug 5, 2016)

foody518 said:


> TurboScooter do you mean JCK for the Sukenari?



I do indeed mean JCK, not JKI.


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## Badgertooth (Aug 5, 2016)

I meant the V1, which is like hitachi blue


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## Badgertooth (Aug 5, 2016)

And pretty reasonable at ¥19000


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## Matus (Aug 5, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> I meant the V1, which is like hitachi blue



Could you please PM me where it can be found? Google is failing me again


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## lapointeus (Aug 5, 2016)

I was criticized for saying this on another thread 
, but when you tap the Sakai Yusuke on something, it makes the same sound as if you tap silverware on the side of a fine crystal. It literally sings.


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## JaVa (Aug 5, 2016)

The VG10 damascus Tanaka is quite thin, weighs only 156g and that's even with the very generous blade height of 55mm. plus mine is very thin behind the edge. 
The b2 version is significantly thicker for some reason at 185g?


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## bennyprofane (Aug 5, 2016)

Email Dominique at Korin, recently it wasnt showing for me either, he wrote me back that it was a bug with the website and made the offer appear again. That or the sale is actually over...


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## Matus (Aug 5, 2016)

I was checking the Tanaka from James, maybe his are made to different specs.

Thanks Benny. I guess the sale is probably over.


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## Krassi (Aug 5, 2016)

hiho 

@matus
if you are living in the area around cologne you can do some extended lasertesting 
i got a lot of them...ohh i see you live in bavaria. ;(

if you really want the best lasers you can get in europe get a semi custom xerxes knife!
its for example with 1.2442 und sc125 steel and with or without s-grind.
http://www.xerxes-knives.de/214.html as you are german you will have no trouble with the site
also there you can find links to the the german knife forum with the stasi-mods-from-hell-of-doom

i tested all of his knifes against my craziest lasers and those things rock..really the best value you can get 

also the akifusa oriental pm from cleancut is extremly awesome and i prefer it over my ashi right now.
best regards, daniel!


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## JaVa (Aug 5, 2016)

The Tanaka nashiji knives are thicker then the damascus vg10 and that bubinga will probably add some weght too. Mine are from Metalmaster.


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## Krassi (Aug 5, 2016)

@matus again nearly not out of topic:
awesome tips on your site! ill use your petty design combined with some mukimono/kiritsuke shape for a custom xerxes petty ill order (oh i think 2 months is his waiting list for stuff right now)
very nice do it your self stuff! oh if you want to see the xerxes in action check this out.. i was drunken and its in german so sorry for the gibberish https://youtu.be/k5DnUTfEO0A

@java
that kohsey price is pretty ok!

seeya daniel


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## JaVa (Aug 5, 2016)

Oh and I seemed to forget that Kohetsu/Kohsey Hap40 link
http://www.japanische-kochmesser.ch/Messer-Suchfilter:::538/Kohsey-HAP40-Gyuto-240mm::3389.html


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## preizzo (Aug 5, 2016)

Yeah I forgot to mention akifusa oriental! Crazy thin and it's made out pm steel. 
I sold mine because I don't like Laser knives, but it could be be a good option for you! &#128522;


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## limpet (Aug 5, 2016)

Cleancut is selling a thin blade under the brand "Kashima" (looks very similar to another brand on CKTG). Anyways, haven't tried it myself, just throwing it into the mix.  Aogami super with stainless cladding. Oval handle, but you said you could replace its so...

http://www.cleancut.se/butik/knivmodeller/kockknivar/gyuto-3-2299-2300-detail


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## JaVa (Aug 5, 2016)

I got the Shiro Kamo Migaki 240 gyuto today, so here is some first impressions: 
It - is - thin - and by thin I mean t-h-i-n: THIN! 
And that profile: JACKPOT! This thing has my preference nailed down perfectly. 
I´m so happy I can't stop grinning like an idiot!

The ootb edge was ok but light touch up and everything around you would just magically turn into slices and cubes just by the presence of the thing. You know when some people tell you that some lasers feel like your cutting air? This thing feels like your cutting with air! 

I'm almost confused looking at this thing? It's only 1.1mm at the heel which is ridiculous to start with and even so, it's got a great continuos distal taper. It wouldn't need it, but it has it. And it has a noticeable convex grind too. How's that even possible with such a thin thing? It does flex though, but only if I bend it and while I generally like my knives to be stiffer, it surprisingly didn't bother me at all as I didn't notice it when cutting with it.

the blade is tall, it´s long and flawlessly made and the handle is beautiful and impeccably finished. 
How this thing isn't getting noticed more is unbelievable? And for that price it has got to be the steal of the century?
Does it seem like too good to be true? Well that's how I feel like.

...Did it come across that I like the knife??? :lol2:

...and did I already mention it's thin?


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## alterwisser (Aug 5, 2016)

JaVa said:


> I got the Shiro Kamo Migaki 240 gyuto today, so here is some first impressions:
> It - is - thin - and by thin I mean t-h-i-n: THIN!
> And that profile: JACKPOT! This thing has my preference nailed down perfectly.
> I´m so happy I can't stop grinning like an idiot!
> ...



Is that the Aogami one (from Cleancut)? Or the R2 one?


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## JaVa (Aug 5, 2016)

Aogami version from Cleancut. I believe the R2 damascus ones are quite a lot heftier.


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## limpet (Aug 5, 2016)

I have the Shiro Kamo Migaki Kiritsuke Gyuto 240 and it's indeed thin, but the OP wanted something stainless so I didn't mention it. The Shiro Kamo Migaki has reactive cladding over aogami #2 core. Reactiveness similar to Kono Fujiyama I think. Due to its light weight of the blade, the handle is small in circumference to give it the blade heaviness common for wa handled knives.


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## panda (Aug 5, 2016)

masamoto KS, this is my favorite knife and if a honyaki version was still available i'd get one in a heart beat. once patina is set, it's not very reactive at all. there is an aeb-l version available as well.

if it has to be stainless laser i would only consider tadatsuna.


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## RobinW (Aug 6, 2016)

I have a few of the ones mentioned and some others like them.
I would just go for a Robin Dalman and be done with it. By far better food release than the others and still thin


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## krx927 (Aug 6, 2016)

Hi Matus, I was in contact with bwj and ordered Sakai Yusuke in November last year. After no contact for about half a year I sent him a mail in June. He told me that he is not getting knives from them and suggested I should forget about it...he told me that this year he received 8 knives out of more than hundred he ordered. I am still on his list but in the mean time I bought Takamura 210 r2 from cleancut. It's true laser but it has western handle that is a bit too small. Besides that it's great knife.

I also bought Akifusa wa from cleancut for a friend few weeks ago. I must say I was a bit disappointed. First of all its not such laser as Takamura, no issue I was not expecting it to be. But there is huge issue in the choil, they tried to round it but instead of rounding it they produced a bevel which is really sharp. It is cutting / hurting into your index finger when you holding the knife so much, it's crazy. Real workmanship fault. I spent few hours on the knife and fixed this issue. If I would be buying for my self I would just send it back. Second issue for me with Akifusa is that the spine (in profile) is not straight but slightly concave. This is not a real functional issue but the knife just looks off a bit.


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## chinacats (Aug 6, 2016)

What about the Konosuke gs in b/s/t?


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## jklip13 (Aug 6, 2016)

Sukenari has been suggested a couple times on this thread, I strongly recommend AGAINST it if you're looking for a knife that cuts well. I have only seen about 10 of them and only use 3, but all have been relatively poorly ground and quite thick at the edge compared to basically all of the other knives suggested here, I was really disappointed with the Gyuto I bought from them. There are so many better options out there like the Konosuke's, Sakai Yusuke and Ashi Hamono's


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## JDA_NC (Aug 6, 2016)

jklip13 said:


> Sukenari has been suggested a couple times on this thread, I strongly recommend AGAINST it if you're looking for a knife that cuts well. I have only seen about 10 of them and only use 3, but all have been relatively poorly ground and quite thick at the edge compared to basically all of the other knives suggested here, I was really disappointed with the Gyuto I bought from them. There are so many better options out there like the Konosuke's, Sakai Yusuke and Ashi Hamono's



What model knives from them have you seen and used in the past?

Just curious because I saw you mention this in another thread too.


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## jklip13 (Aug 6, 2016)

JDA_NC said:


> What model knives from them have you seen and used in the past?
> 
> Just curious because I saw you mention this in another thread too.



I own a 270mm ZDP non Damascus, I've used 2 of their white honyaki , and seen/held a whole bunch of Damascus ZDP and Ginsanko non Damascus, all of them have been Gyuto. Maybe their other shapes are better I don't know. I'm not trying to trash the brand, but there is a reason you can buy a $600 mirror polished shiro honyaki from them ehen everyone else charges $1400


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## Charon (Aug 6, 2016)

I don't know if anyone mentioned wakui. This is my 240 gyuto. It's pretty thin behind the edge and has a stiff back.


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## Matus (Aug 6, 2016)

Where do I start 

@ Krassi - I am really glad you like my blog and the design of the petty - PM me - I would have some improvement suggestions  It seems I need to visit Köln again  Yes - I am aware of Xerxes knives and he does amazing work, but should I go for one of his knives it would have to be san-mai and that of course puts the knife to different price range. I need to first figure out what kind of 'thin' knife I actually want - it would be too soon for a custom at this stage.

@ JaVa - I am having a closer look at knives available via cleancut - there are several that seems worth a try. Shiro Kamo looks interesting, thanks.

@ RobinW - Robin Dalman would definitely be a good choice (I had a chance to use his knife in a passaround), but here similar arguments apply as I mentioned with Xerxes knives - too soon for a proper custom knife.

@ krx927 - I have just got a reply from Keiichi from bluewayjapan - see below:
_"I currently do not have any Yusuke wa-gyutos in stock. I have been waiting more than 2 years to receive those thinner version of stainless 240mm wa-gyutos with HRC 61. And I still will have to wait to receive it and do not know when it will be. Fortunately I heard that the situation of the supply for Yusuke gyutos recently has been getting better. Anyway I will post it on my ebay store once I receive it. Sorry but that is all I can answer you right now. Thank you for your inquiry anyway."_

@ Charon - thank you - Yes, Wakui is on my list. From the looks it seems to share some similarities with earlier Itinomonn knives from Maxim

A few general notes:
- Stainless would be indeed preferable, but I am not excluding carbon steel candidates at this stage.
- Even though I love nice kurouchi finish, I am wondering whether kurouchi finish on a laser knife is a good choice - it could be source of increased drag.


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## sharptools (Aug 6, 2016)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> I've owned/used all of them. I rate them in this order:
> 
> - Suisin INOX honyaki - Best fit and finish by a hair; very easy to sharpen; uniquely shaped wa-handle (octagonal on the top, rounded on the bottom); the only downsides are the screened, rather than etched/engraved kanji and that it has a machi, which some find objectionable.
> 
> ...



My experience is similar to Pensacola Tiger, I think Ginga/Gesshin Ginga is very good value.

Also the above thin knives cuts differently from something like a Wakui.

The thin knives falls through food with some minor food release issues for certain items. The Wakui doesn't necessarily falls through food but cuts very well and has good release.


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## JDA_NC (Aug 6, 2016)

jklip13 said:


> I own a 270mm ZDP non Damascus, I've used 2 of their white honyaki , and seen/held a whole bunch of Damascus ZDP and Ginsanko non Damascus, all of them have been Gyuto. Maybe their other shapes are better I don't know. I'm not trying to trash the brand, but there is a reason you can buy a $600 mirror polished shiro honyaki from them ehen everyone else charges $1400



That's interesting. From looking at the linked photo that Kippington had posted awhile back with his 240 & 270, maybe there's a large degree of variation between the two?

I have a 240mm ZDP non-Damascus and it is very thin






That's a little bit of a bummer to hear. My experience with the one knife I've gotten and seen from them is so good that I would never have hesitated to purchase another one of theirs.


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## pleue (Aug 6, 2016)

I would probably get a takamura or a dalman. I love the suisin IH (pleasure to sharpen) I had and really like the kono ginsan I tried as well.


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## lapointeus (Aug 7, 2016)

sharptools said:


> My experience is similar to Pensacola Tiger, I think Ginga/Gesshin Ginga is very good value.
> 
> Also the above thin knives cuts differently from something like a Wakui.
> 
> The thin knives falls through food with some minor food release issues for certain items. The Wakui doesn't necessarily falls through food but cuts very well and has good release.



I like the Gesshin Ginga. Awesome knife. The fit and finish on my Sakai Yusuke is better than the Ginga. I feel like the steel is better with the Yusuke too. GS+ is not worth the price but I actually like the new handles, but I don't think it cuts anywhere near as well as the yusuke or ginga. The rounded spine and choil on the Konosuke are not nearly as well done as the ginga and Yusuke.


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## Krassi (Aug 7, 2016)

@matus
your welcome  
Ashi or Akifusa for me (akifusa needs some tuning on the very smooth sides)


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## LucasFur (Aug 8, 2016)

jklip13 said:


> I own a 270mm ZDP non Damascus, I've used 2 of their white honyaki , and seen/held a whole bunch of Damascus ZDP and Ginsanko non Damascus, all of them have been Gyuto. Maybe their other shapes are better I don't know. I'm not trying to trash the brand, but there is a reason you can buy a $600 mirror polished shiro honyaki from them ehen everyone else charges $1400



weird bud - I have a 240 zdp damascus sukenari and really really like it. :stinker:


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## James (Aug 8, 2016)

jklip13 said:


> I own a 270mm ZDP non Damascus, I've used 2 of their white honyaki , and seen/held a whole bunch of Damascus ZDP and Ginsanko non Damascus, all of them have been Gyuto. Maybe their other shapes are better I don't know. I'm not trying to trash the brand, but there is a reason you can buy a $600 mirror polished shiro honyaki from them ehen everyone else charges $1400


Hmm, what don't you like about their knives? I am quite happy with my 270 non-damascus zdp-189 gyuto


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## jklip13 (Aug 8, 2016)

James said:


> Hmm, what don't you like about their knives? I am quite happy with my 270 non-damascus zdp-189 gyuto



I would be happy to pay 180-250 for a knife ground like this. I understand the steel is hard to work with, but in my opinion sukenari is not even competing with brands like Yoshikane, Akifusa and Ashi Hamono. The thinness behind the edge has been lacking on all the knives I've seen from them. I think compared to Henkles and Wusthof they cut ok, but for 400+ I expected more.


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## Kippington (Aug 9, 2016)

Have you considered thinning your own? There are so many knives out there with a minimal brushed metal look (e.g. Kono HD2, Sukenari Hairline) which are just inviting you to thin them on your belt grinder. Really easy to do too (how hard is it to hold a flat surface against a flat surface :laugh.

If you think about it, after you've sharpened a thin knife a few times you've gone and ruined the effect you were after in the first place. You'll have to go and thin it yourself eventually if you want to keep it in good condition for moving through food with the lest amount of effort. You should factor that into your decision when buying a thin knife.

Hell, I did this one by hand when I started out experimenting (before I bought a grinder):


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