# Horizontal swipes on onions are overrated



## stringer (Mar 19, 2019)

I have cut many onions over the years. I generally prefer not to make horizontal cuts unless dealing with very small (like shallot or smaller) onions. And then I still don't really use the tip. For bigger onions, or for doing a finer dice, I believe you have more control doing these cuts vertically. You can do more cuts and cut them to a more precise depth. I have some videos here to demonstrate. My opinion is that horizontal swipes are not a function of the thickness of the tip, but of technique. However, even someone with good technique might prefer other techniques in many situations. 
I would be interested in you all's opinions and thoughts.

Thick knife.
First and last half onion. Tip swipe
2nd one. Horizontal slice
3rd one. Vertical slice



Watanabe tip swipe



Watanabe vertical method



Petty knife tip swipe



Meat cleaver tip swipe


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## RDalman (Mar 19, 2019)

I never do horizontal swipe and I cut from the root end (the onion doesnt slip apart easily when it's top is the "end"


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## Matus (Mar 19, 2019)

I find tne horizontal cuts great for testing the geometry of the tip of the knife. In praxis they are not really necessary I find.


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## Matus (Mar 19, 2019)

I find tne horizontal cuts great for testing the geometry of the tip of the knife. In praxis they are not really necessary I find.


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## K813zra (Mar 19, 2019)

I always do horizontal swipes because I find it satisfying to hear that "swish". Practicality be damned.


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## Migraine (Mar 19, 2019)

I never did the horizontal swipes until I saw people doing them in videos on here. Tried it a few times and just found it made the onion more likely to fall apart and more difficult to get consistently fine pieces so I stopped.


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## ian (Mar 19, 2019)

Hey now, horizontal swipes are my only moments of joy in an otherwise straight up and down life. Don’t take them away from me.


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## HRC_64 (Mar 19, 2019)

radial cuts will work pretty good, too
with a thin-behind-the edge knife especially


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## bahamaroot (Mar 19, 2019)

Migraine said:


> I never did the horizontal swipes until I saw people doing them in videos on here. Tried it a few times and just found it made the onion more likely to fall apart and more difficult to get consistently fine pieces so I stopped.


I never did them either until finding knife forums. After trying it for awhile I also found it made the job more difficult and necessary and stopped.


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## Walla (Mar 19, 2019)

Glad to see you removing the germ from the onion before cutting.. 

As far as I can tell all the horizontal cuts do is prevent having big honking pieces from the two sides in the dice...radial cuts would take care of those as well...

Take care


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## Chef Doom (Mar 19, 2019)

These are the threads I need to convince myself not to do stupid and pointless things.

Now if I could just find a post somewhere explaining how the pull out method is a great technique for preventing pregnancy [emoji41]


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## stringer (Mar 19, 2019)

One more video.
This is my technique with vertical cuts to brunoise an onion. (1/8", 3mm dice).


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## Walla (Mar 19, 2019)

Chef Doom said:


> These are the threads I need to convince myself not to do stupid and pointless things.
> 
> Now if I could just find a post somewhere explaining how the pull out method is a great technique for preventing pregnancy [emoji41]



And here I've always heard the real danger of pregnancy was kissing while wearing bathing suits


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## stringer (Mar 19, 2019)

What techniques in sharpening, knife maintenance (I love my ceramic hone, even with Japanese knives), or knife skills do you do that you frequently hear or see other people do differently? 
How much does internet chatter about distal taper and thin tips influence newbie knife buying decisions or knife future speculating?
This kind of thing may seem like a waste of time to some but to me it's fascinating. It's one of the coolest things about being a chef and/or knife nut. Finding out different ways of doing things from people you meet from around the world. Figuring out what new ingredient or technique or knife material will be the hot new thing.


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## StonedEdge (Mar 19, 2019)

you guys are over thinking the dicing bit


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## Michi (Mar 19, 2019)

I've used radial cuts for decades. In fact, I didn't even know about the horizontal plus vertical technique until fairly recently. To me, that technique is awkward, mainly because the onion doesn't hold together quite as well after having made cuts in both directions.

For run-of-the-mill diced onion where exactly even dice don't matter, it's just a bunch of vertical cuts and then the cross cuts. By spacing the vertical cuts close together with a thin knife, and by cross-slicing in very thin slices, it's still possible to get really fine dice. If there is a bit from the sides that is a bit larger, I either discard it or just chop across it two or three more times.


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## podzap (Mar 19, 2019)

The horizontal stuff just looks cool on video, sort of like slowly building up to some sort of explosive climax.

It's the kind of stuff Gordon Ramsay does and then calls it "no fuss". I'm more into the Jamie Oliver camp, which really is no fuss.


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## Michi (Mar 19, 2019)

Ramsay just gets on my nerves. I always cringe at his "I'm the most important person in the world" attitude, not to mention his arrogance. Oliver seems a bit more normal.


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## HRC_64 (Mar 19, 2019)

stringer said:


> How much does internet chatter about distal taper and thin tips influence newbie knife buying ...



Masamoto KS kills it with cabbage because the stiff heel and tapered mid-section...


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## Nikabrik (Mar 19, 2019)

Thanks for doing those videos, @stringer. I've done something similar to your vertical method, but way slower and only because I was scared if the horizontal cuts.

It's interesting timing, because I was just watching some old Rick Theory videos including some onion work.

Some notes:

1) he does horizontal cuts, but not generally the swipe.

2) he does far fewer horizontal cuts than vertical cuts.

3) he does those horizontal cuts after the vertical cuts

It seems that only the horizontal cuts closest to the center/flat are important, geometrically speaking.

Couple of Rick's videos:


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## stringer (Mar 19, 2019)

I have a lot of feelings about carrots too. Peeling, dicing, obliques. I'll do a carrot video sometime too.


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## stringer (Mar 19, 2019)

Nikabrik said:


> Thanks for doing those videos, @stringer. I've done something similar to your vertical method, but way slower and only because I was scared if the horizontal cuts.
> 
> It's interesting timing, because I was just watching some old Rick Theory videos including some onion work.
> 
> ...




Rick's style reminds me of the French chefs from my culinary school back in the day. He's quick, but the technique is very old fashioned.


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## stringer (Mar 19, 2019)

I did find a carrot video I had already taped. My strategy looks pretty similar to Rick's. It's kind of hilarious because it's with a self made knife that is a tiny bit enormous. Which brings mean me to my next unpopular opinion. A little wedging is fine if you're just shooting for medium dice.


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## Paraffin (Mar 19, 2019)

I learned the horizontal + vertical method so many years ago, it's just automatically what I go for. Maybe I should rethink it. I did have to rethink it a bit when I started using a nakiri, because the tip has too much surface area for that "swipe" in the horizontal cuts. It's more of a horizontal draw, but with a sharp nakiri it still works fine. 

And I'd rather have a nakiri for that last stage, where the chopped bits can climb up the side of the knife. A tall knife is better for that, and a nakiri is a good shape for transferring product to a bowl.

And finally, here's MPW's take on it:

:


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## Unstoppabo (Mar 19, 2019)

One, two horizontal swipes max, then radial then chop. Everyone is welcome to their own preference


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## Kippington (Mar 19, 2019)

My method for fine dice, presenation quality, featuring a very nice Dalman Gyuto. 
Most dishes don't need this level of precision though.


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## lemeneid (Mar 20, 2019)

It’s interesting to see the videos here. I notice you guys take off the root before slicing. I was always told to keep the root on so that the onion would hold itself together while dicing. Maybe I need to change my dicing technique


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## dan (Mar 20, 2019)

Kippington said:


> My method for fine dice, presenation quality, featuring a very nice Dalman Gyuto.
> Most dishes don't need this level of precision though.



Is that a newer Dalman? I remember seeing a recent IG post of a new batch of 240's looking a lot like that...


More on-topic though, I also do less horizontal swipes (if any) compared to stringer's vids. I'll do 2-3. I had never really considered the vertical technique, though I'll have to try it now. Had a  moment seeing that just now for the first time.


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## Migraine (Mar 20, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> It’s interesting to see the videos here. I notice you guys take off the root before slicing. I was always told to keep the root on so that the onion would hold itself together while dicing. Maybe I need to change my dicing technique


Yeah I also keep the root on. What's the logic behind taking it off, root-removers?


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## lemeneid (Mar 20, 2019)

This guy might have a thing or two to say about our technique though


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## krx927 (Mar 20, 2019)

I also never do horizontal cuts. They just make a mess of the onion as it is just falling apart. They are not needed except for the 2 sides. But those I cut really thinly with vertical cuts so no issue...


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## Nemo (Mar 20, 2019)

I do do vertical cuts and I must say (against the grain of this thread, it seems), I quite like the technique.


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## Bensbites (Mar 20, 2019)

I have seen people do opposite diagonal cuts as opposed to horizontal and vertical. 

I still like the horizontal flick though onions, shallots, garlic, and radishes. Maybe I am still too new at this nice knife thing”, but I find it satisfying.


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## stringer (Mar 20, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> It’s interesting to see the videos here. I notice you guys take off the root before slicing. I was always told to keep the root on so that the onion would hold itself together while dicing. Maybe I need to change my dicing technique



This is also a very common technique. Not right or wrong.


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## ian (Mar 20, 2019)

Although I haven’t tried in a while, I remember it being slightly harder to peel the onion with the root on, and not hard to keep the onion all together during cutting without it.


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## stringer (Mar 20, 2019)

I found another relevant video in my collection. From when I was testing this 360 g behemoth Sabatier. I do vertical cuts and then slices and then dices and then I give it a little two handed action at the end. I know that's another technique people are told not to do with Japanese knives. I do it all the time. I also rock/walk chop with Chinese cleavers. But we'll save those for different threads. This one has stayed surprisingly on topic with onions.


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## playero (Mar 20, 2019)

Have you guys heard of a mandolin for chopping and dicing?


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## hennyville (Mar 20, 2019)

Nemo said:


> I do do vertical cuts and I must say (against the grain of this thread, it seems), I quite like the technique.


uff, thank you, i thought i am only one here using this ordinary technique.


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## krx927 (Mar 20, 2019)

playero said:


> Have you guys heard of a mandolin for chopping and dicing?



What mandolin? Are you are aware that this is knife forum


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## Michi (Mar 20, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> This guy might have a thing or two to say about our technique though


Yeah. Most likely that it's bloody slow and inefficient


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## Michi (Mar 20, 2019)

playero said:


> Have you guys heard of a mandolin for chopping and dicing?


Wow! That's almost as serious a transgression as suggesting that someone might want to use a Wüsthof…


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## K813zra (Mar 20, 2019)

Michi said:


> Wow! That's almost as serious a transgression as suggesting that someone might want to use a Wüsthof…



Might as well get a slap chop.


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## Nikabrik (Mar 20, 2019)

Nemo said:


> I do do vertical cuts and I must say (against the grain of this thread, it seems), I quite like the technique.


I'm getting mixed up as to what vertical and horizontal mean in this thread.

Are you saying you only cut in one direction prior to the final cut, or do you mean you're doing perpendicular cuts with the onion on its end?


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## Ruso (Mar 20, 2019)

playero said:


> Have you guys heard of a mandolin for chopping and dicing?



Nice try


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## Deshi (Mar 20, 2019)

Kippington said:


> My method for fine dice, presenation quality, featuring a very nice Dalman Gyuto.
> Most dishes don't need this level of precision though.




Brilliant, Kippington! To each his own, of course, but your method is quick and productive, and it allows you to handle the onion much more securely and provides a better view of your knife* as you work: efficiency & safety - an excellant combination.

* And a lovely knife that is, indeed!


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## JustinP (Mar 20, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> This guy might have a thing or two to say about our technique though




I'm guessing he's cut an onion or two in his life.


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## Deshi (Mar 20, 2019)

JustinP said:


> I'm guessing he's cut an onion or two in his life.



I imagine this guy has cut quite a few, too - but ... yikes!


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## Tim Rowland (Mar 20, 2019)

Cut off both ends, cut vertical, then radial. Perfect dice every time with no extra time and fuss.


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## JustinP (Mar 20, 2019)

Deshi said:


> I imagine this guy has cut quite a few, too - but ... yikes!




That made my skin crawl.


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## RDalman (Mar 20, 2019)

No roots https://www.instagram.com/p/BvPJxgEh56q/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=8mvkpfiz9b6t


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## never mind (Mar 20, 2019)

Haha, this thread keeps going and there started to be a "FreshDirect" banner popping up on this thread! A surprise (usually lots of knife banners! FreshDirect is like amazon for produce/veggies/groceries kind of thing.)


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## tgfencer (Mar 20, 2019)

This thread got way more traction than I thought it would. Personally, I use a mix of several of these methods, just depends on what I'm trying to do with the onion and how much time I have to do it in. No wrong or right way....except maybe the slap chop.


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## bahamaroot (Mar 20, 2019)

Deshi said:


> I imagine this guy has cut quite a few, too - but ... yikes!


My fingers started to bleed just watching that....

And on the root on/off question, I dice with the root off, less "debis" on the board and in your product.


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## never mind (Mar 20, 2019)

What’s the slap chop??




tgfencer said:


> ...[M]aybe the slap chop.


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## tgfencer (Mar 20, 2019)

never mind said:


> What’s the slap chop??



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## JustinP (Mar 20, 2019)

tgfencer said:


> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>




Is slap chop OK if it has AS blades?


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## tgfencer (Mar 20, 2019)

JustinP said:


> Is slap chop OK if it has AS blades?



Sure, if Vince can sell me on the costs of the upgrade...

"Make America skinny again..." makes you wonder if some speechwriters used this video as inspiration


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## daveb (Mar 20, 2019)

Michi said:


> Yeah. Most likely that it's bloody slow and inefficient


Certainly bloody. Mandy is thirsty.


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## bahamaroot (Mar 20, 2019)

Don't dog the Slap Chop, somebody made $Millions$ off that garbage.


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## Paraffin (Mar 20, 2019)

Migraine said:


> Yeah I also keep the root on. What's the logic behind taking it off, root-removers?



I cut off the root because it makes the onion easier to peel quickly, and it makes a flat surface I can use to steady the onion when cutting it in half before dicing. It's also a little easier on the blade edge, because it means I'm not cutting through the harder root/stem when cutting the onion in half.


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## OldJoeClarke (Mar 20, 2019)

K813zra said:


> I always do horizontal swipes because I find it satisfying to hear that "swish". Practicality be damned.



Yup, me too  Never did it though until the rabbit hole got me, those pointy tips just make it so much fun.


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## milkbaby (Mar 20, 2019)

Paraffin said:


> I cut off the root because it makes the onion easier to peel quickly, and it makes a flat surface I can use to steady the onion when cutting it in half before dicing. It's also a little easier on the blade edge, because it means I'm not cutting through the harder root/stem when cutting the onion in half.



Yeah, I like to cut off the root too because it seems a few times there was some sand in there that scratched the knife. I'm just paranoid now.


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## K813zra (Mar 20, 2019)

OldJoeClarke said:


> Yup, me too  Never did it though until the rabbit hole got me, those pointy tips just make it so much fun.



Me too. Before this place and the others like it I used a boning knife for about everything in the kitchen simply because it is what I had.  The knife and cooking bug hit at the same time.


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## playero (Mar 21, 2019)

from a pro


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## JustinP (Mar 21, 2019)

playero said:


> from a pro




As a layperson I've never understood why people do the swipes other than it making a fun sound


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## ian (Mar 21, 2019)

To be fair, the pieces coming from the sides of his onion are long rectangles rather than squares. That’s why people do a swipe, although you’re right that you don’t need to go all the way through or anything.

Also, why do some people peel it before halving it? It’s so much easier to peel afterwards.

*must keep the thread alive!*


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## JustinP (Mar 21, 2019)

ian said:


> To be fair, the pieces coming from the sides of his onion are long rectangles rather than squares. That’s why people do a swipe, although you’re right that you don’t need to go all the way through or anything.
> 
> Also, why do some people peel it before halving it? It’s so much easier to peel afterwards.
> 
> *must keep the thread alive!*



If you do radial cuts, not so much. But yeah, agreed on the peeling bit. Calling it now, 50 pages!


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## OldJoeClarke (Mar 21, 2019)

Just got a new toy, gonna do some onions now to break it in.


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## JustinP (Mar 21, 2019)

OldJoeClarke said:


> Just got a new toy, gonna do some onions now to break it in.



Let us know what the perfect method is


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## K813zra (Mar 21, 2019)

Don't forget to do your horizontals on your garlic cloves.


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## RDalman (Mar 21, 2019)

Horizontals are mandatory, in fact all your cutting needs to be horizontal. Always. 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BvSB2MwBE2w/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=47mem7dhfirs


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## OldJoeClarke (Mar 21, 2019)

Had to tame myself a bit as the food called for thinly cut onion slices, but I snuck some fancy diced in there anyhow.

Now who told you I did horizontals on my garlic??? I thought that was a hidden pleasure...

@RDalman Show us some diagonals in the next clip.


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## ian (Mar 21, 2019)

RDalman said:


> Horizontals are mandatory, in fact all your cutting needs to be horizontal. Always.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BvSB2MwBE2w/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=47mem7dhfirs



*like*

(Is that against the rules?)


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## Jon-cal (Mar 21, 2019)

ian said:


> To be fair, the pieces coming from the sides of his onion are long rectangles rather than squares. That’s why people do a swipe, although you’re right that you don’t need to go all the way through or anything.
> 
> Also, why do some people peel it before halving it? It’s so much easier to peel afterwards.
> 
> *must keep the thread alive!*



I usually peel before halving, but only to avoid getting bits of the outer peel all over the place. It seems cleaner somehow to me. But definitely more of a pain. If I had to any more than a few onions I’d give up on that pretty quick.


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## HRC_64 (Mar 21, 2019)

the root-end of some aromatics is pretty tight...leeks for example
I think you can have some leeway with trimming


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## Kippington (Mar 21, 2019)

ian said:


> Also, why do some people peel it before halving it? It’s so much easier to peel afterwards.


You're right, but people in pro kitchens tend to do jobs in batches. So we'll have someone peel all the onions in one go as a whole, and anyone that needs them can grab as many as they want. This doesn't work if we half them all first as they fall apart easily, and the one chef that needs to cook onion rings will have some choice words to say.


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## ian (Mar 21, 2019)

Kippington said:


> You're right, but people in pro kitchens tend to do jobs in batches. So we'll have someone peel all the onions in one go as a whole, and anyone that needs them can grab as many as they want. This doesn't work if we half them all first as they fall apart easily, and the one chef that needs to cook onion rings will have some choice words to say.



That makes total sense. It just then looks inefficient when you make a youtube video that involves you peeling and then immediately halving an onion. But I imagine that if I had just peeled 20 lbs of them at work, and then afterwards cut up a few, I might have made a similar video.


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## bahamaroot (Mar 21, 2019)

playero said:


> from a pro


The most important thing he did was he didn't scoop the product up with the knife!


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## Bodine (Mar 21, 2019)

So many opinions, so many videos, , , I like my way best, grab an onion and start cutting.


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## stringer (Mar 21, 2019)

RDalman said:


> Horizontals are mandatory, in fact all your cutting needs to be horizontal. Always.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BvSB2MwBE2w/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=47mem7dhfirs




Alright if you insist.


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## Michi (Mar 21, 2019)

stringer said:


> Alright if you insist.


I think you are doing this all wrong. Instead, you should prop up your cutting board vertically, hold the onion against the cutting board with one hand, and cut vertically with the other hand. That way, even though you are cutting vertically, the onion gets sliced horizontally


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## DevinT (Mar 22, 2019)

Need to see a video using a veg cleaver. 

Hoss


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## panda (Mar 8, 2020)

Should be dicing onions in a diagonal zig zag and a circle motion on the way down.


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## labor of love (Mar 8, 2020)

Like most things, Marco did it best.


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## Brian Weekley (Mar 8, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> This guy might have a thing or two to say about our technique though




Now that’s just plain SICK!


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## stringer (Mar 8, 2020)

once I got the tip of the Shi.han thinned it became a pretty gnarly onion swiper.


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## stringer (Mar 8, 2020)

Here is one I have been meaning to type up a recipe for that I haven't shared yet.


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## Kristoffer (Mar 8, 2020)

stringer said:


> once I got the tip of the Shi.han thinned it became a pretty gnarly onion swiper.




I just watched 6 minutes of onion dicing and it was time well spent! Your knife skills are mesmerising. The chopping is so quick it reminds me of how old movies off of film are shown; a slight flickering of the light, and stuttering movement. There go the onions! Except the one that went on the floor. Bam, bam, bam! That’s what you get for not staying put. Love it!


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## stringer (Mar 8, 2020)

Here's one more because my wife just asked me to make some crispy onions for daal tomorrow.


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## Barclid (Mar 8, 2020)

https://i.imgur.com/R3s0q10.mp4

I'm in the horizontal after vertical camp personally. Never enjoyed doing horizontal first. Sometimes I'll do radial depending on what's needed. Video is showing what I would usually do on a shallot, but on an onion.


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## Barclid (Mar 9, 2020)

And ciseler for when you need finer mince.

https://imgur.com/gallery/INmp4kM


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## panda (Mar 9, 2020)

@stringer your shaky hands give me anxiety while watching, lol.


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## stringer (Mar 9, 2020)

panda said:


> @stringer your shaky hands give me anxiety while watching, lol.



They don't bother me when I'm chopping. But they're bad enough I sometimes get a little nervous shaving with a straight.


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## stringer (Mar 9, 2020)

Barclid said:


> https://i.imgur.com/R3s0q10.mp4
> 
> I'm in the horizontal after vertical camp personally. Never enjoyed doing horizontal first. Sometimes I'll do radial depending on what's needed. Video is showing what I would usually do on a shallot, but on an onion.



I do the opposite. Medium onions and larger I do horizontal first. Small onions and shallots I do vertical first then horizontal. I was taught the "correct" way in culinary school but the Mexican dudes I worked with at my first job did it horizontal first and it stuck.


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## Barclid (Mar 9, 2020)

stringer said:


> I do the opposite. Medium onions and larger I do horizontal first. Small onions and shallots I do vertical first then horizontal. I was taught the "correct" way in culinary school but the Mexican dudes I worked with at my first job did it horizontal first and it stuck.


Yeah not saying either is wrong. Interesting to see what people prefer. I've always had the onions stay together better my way. I do the horizontal cuts with a draw starting from the heel into the tip starting at an angle relative to the onion though. I do all size aliums this way.


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## torbaci (Mar 9, 2020)

stringer said:


> They don't bother me when I'm chopping. But they're bad enough I sometimes get a little nervous shaving with a straight.



i have the same thing,they say beta blockers will fix it for me but i hate taking medicine,would rather work with shaky hands,i dont even notice them but other ppl do.


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## torbaci (Mar 9, 2020)

Im suprised how many ppl are cutting of both ends of onions,they always give me hard time when i do that,i try to keep root ends on,but shave off hairy part to not make a mess.do my dicing,and then get rid of the topof the onion.


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## stringer (Mar 9, 2020)

torbaci said:


> Im suprised how many ppl are cutting of both ends of onions,they always give me hard time when i do that,i try to keep root ends on,but shave off hairy part to not make a mess.do my dicing,and then get rid of the topof the onion.



My style is pretty much only about speed. I've always worked in high volume scratch kitchens. I'm not the most precise or graceful but if you need someone to chop a 50 gallon drum of some random fruit or vegetable then I'm your man.


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## labor of love (Mar 9, 2020)

Barclid said:


> https://i.imgur.com/R3s0q10.mp4
> 
> I'm in the horizontal after vertical camp personally. Never enjoyed doing horizontal first. Sometimes I'll do radial depending on what's needed. Video is showing what I would usually do on a shallot, but on an onion.


Thats a seriously nice edge.


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## OldJoeClarke (Mar 9, 2020)

If you look at the structure of an onion it really does not need the horizontals, it is just fun. Garlic on the other hand does need it as the flesh is solid or has no grain.


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## Barclid (Mar 9, 2020)

OldJoeClarke said:


> If you look at the structure of an onion it really does not need the horizontals, it is just fun. Garlic on the other hand does need it as the flesh is solid or has no grain.



Can't wait to rehash this tired argument.


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## OldJoeClarke (Mar 9, 2020)

Barclid said:


> Can't wait to rehash this tired argument.



Well don't wait on my account, rehash away...


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## Barclid (Mar 9, 2020)

OldJoeClarke said:


> Well don't wait on my account, rehash away...

















The pictures say it. People argue then for radial cuts, but the termination at the core is much thinner than the initiation in the outer layers, making uneven dice. The finer the vertical cuts you make, the more uneven pieces you'll have if you don't counter it with horizontal cuts. If I'm doing rough dice, sure, but for fine dice/mince without doing ciseler then horizontal is the way to go.


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## OldJoeClarke (Mar 9, 2020)

Sweet, that is a good explanation. Cheers for the reply. I guess I was only thinking of the larger surface area and not how the structure changes as it moves in. Nice one...


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## panda (Mar 9, 2020)

Barclid said:


> And ciseler for when you need finer mince.
> 
> https://imgur.com/gallery/INmp4kM



what cutting board is this


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## Barclid (Mar 9, 2020)

panda said:


> what cutting board is this



Asahi, 3/4" thick one.


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## Gregmega (Mar 9, 2020)

Barclid said:


> Asahi, 3/4" thick one.



Aka Brutus


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## panda (Mar 9, 2020)

it is very quiet, i like that


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## ModRQC (Mar 9, 2020)

All this made me think of something to try next time...

In the meanwhile not much cooking to do this week... love to see all those vids, they make me sad and nostalgic, can almost feel all those knives dicing my very heart...


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## ModRQC (Mar 9, 2020)

And what do we do best when away from using knives? Shopping them, obviously!


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## adam92 (Mar 11, 2020)

I only do tip swipe..


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 11, 2020)

Barclid said:


>



Not directed at Barclid specifically, I just wanted the picture... so, when I did my training long ago, I was taught simply to discard the pieces marked in green (they would go into stock or whatever) and finely dice only the core section as it were. That way you avoided uneveness and (allegedly) saved time. Anyone does that these days?


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## panda (Mar 11, 2020)

Radial cuts is a middle ground that negates the need for horizontal swipes. Even if you use the extra step you still get funny looking pieces.


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## ian (Mar 11, 2020)

There are really only two solutions here.

1) separate the layers of the onion and cut each one individually into perfect squares

2) realize that your work will never be perfect, and stop using onions.


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## stringer (Mar 11, 2020)

Just cook them long enough and it doesn't matter how you cut them.

Daal (lentil curry) with crispy onions


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## ian (Mar 11, 2020)

stringer said:


> Just cook them long enough and it doesn't matter how you cut them.
> 
> Daal (lentil curry) with crispy onions
> 
> View attachment 73816



Ack, they're so irregularly cut, I can't look. Some of the grains of rice are longer than others, too. You don't even them out after you cook the rice?

Grudgingly: looks delicious...


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## ian (Mar 11, 2020)

On a more serious note, I've had an actual dream in which I invited some people over for dinner and everyone thought the food tasted great, but didn't notice until halfway through that all the tiny pieces of carrots and potatoes in one of my dishes were cut into perfect regular tetrahedra. They were so impressed. That was probably the happiest I've ever been.


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## esoo (Mar 11, 2020)

Barclid said:


> And ciseler for when you need finer mince.
> 
> https://imgur.com/gallery/INmp4kM




My OCD loves this.


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## Garm (Mar 11, 2020)

ian said:


> On a more serious note, I've had an actual dream in which I invited some people over for dinner and everyone thought the food tasted great, but didn't notice until halfway through that all the tiny pieces of carrots and potatoes in one of my dishes were cut into perfect regular tetrahedra. They were so impressed. That was probably the happiest I've ever been.


My background is from psychology. PM me to talk about that dream, no charge

@stringer: wouldn't mind a recipe for that dish. Looks great!


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## ian (Mar 11, 2020)

Garm said:


> My background is from psychology. PM me to talk about that dream, no charge
> 
> @stringer: wouldn't mind a recipe for that dish. Looks great!



 My wife's a psychotherapist. Got plenty of that readily available.


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## stringer (Mar 11, 2020)

Garm said:


> My background is from psychology. PM me to talk about that dream, no charge
> 
> @stringer: wouldn't mind a recipe for that dish. Looks great!



The daal is my wife's recipe. It came from the internet. She cooks it in the instant pot (computerized pressure cooker). I don't know how to program it and refuse to learn.

But here's the ingredients:
Dry Daal medley, about 1.5 cups
1 onion, diced
I can fire roasted tomatoes
Turmeric
Cumin
Ajwain (if you go to an Indian grocer to get the daal, see if they have ajwain seed. The flavor is kind of like thyme. It adds a nice earthy roundness and will aid in bean digestion)
Crushed red pepper
Salt and Pepper

I make the crispy onion topping. That's actually what I was cutting onions for in at least two of those videos up there. We go through a LOT of onions in my house.

Basically crispy onions are mirepoix, only with a hell of a lot more flavor. And you cook them until they are caramelized little bits of candy. How long it takes will depend on how you cut them. You can cut them big and they'll take a lot longer, cut them very small it will go faster but there's greater risk of burning them. You can't rush it and have it come out right. Which I is why I don't even make them on the same night that my wife makes the daal. I make them a day or two ahead of time because I never know exactly how long it will take. But figure no less than an hour even if you cut them really tiny.

Crispy onions ingredients
1 tablespoon canola oil or something that can be cooked awhile without scorching
5 onions, minced
2 fingers ginger, minced
3 cloves garlic, minced
2 tablespoons chiffonade curry leaf
1 tablespoon crushed red chilli
2. Teaspoons cumin


Cook the onions first alone in the oil until they are golden brown
Add chili pepper and curry leaf and cook a few minutes on medium low
Add the ginger and garlic cook very slowly until onions are dark brown, almost black
Add cumin, cook a few more minutes.

Don't burn them!

It takes practice


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## Garm (Mar 11, 2020)

stringer said:


> The daal is my wife's recipe. It came from the internet. She cooks it in the instant pot (computerized pressure cooker). I don't know how to program it and refuse to learn.
> 
> But here's the ingredients:
> Dry Daal medley, about 1.5 cups
> ...


Much appreciated man!
Ajwain was that name I always forget..


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## stringer (Mar 11, 2020)

I accidentally posted before I was done so check it again for better instructions. I edited it.


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## ModRQC (Mar 12, 2020)

It’s funny you should mention this quoting @Barclid schematics, as he posted a video about 5 replies before that using the very technique you described and asked about... so yeah someone still does that at least. 



Carl Kotte said:


> Not directed at Barclid specifically, I just wanted the picture... so, when I did my training long ago, I was taught simply to discard the pieces marked in green (they would go into stock or whatever) and finely dice only the core section as it were. That way you avoided uneveness and (allegedly) saved time. Anyone does that these days?


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## captaincaed (Mar 16, 2020)

stringer said:


> She cooks it in the instant pot (computerized pressure cooker). I don't know how to program it and refuse to learn.



I'm glad I'm not the only luddite here. Do not get the obsession.


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## bahamaroot (Mar 17, 2020)

captaincaed said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only luddite here. Do not get the obsession.


Add me to that list....


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## Nagakin (Mar 18, 2020)

I have no problem using one for specific tasks to save significant amounts of time, like getting lengua tender. My issue is when they become substitutions for learning how to cook with the excuse that it "saves time" in normal situations.


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## Michi (Mar 18, 2020)

I have an ordinary stove-top pressure cooker, and I have a bunch of large pots and a dutch oven, as well as a sous vide circulator. Even without the sous vide option, I'm hard pressed to think of what I could do in the slow cooker that I couldn't do with my pressure cooker and pots.

I do see some advantages though. If you have a small kitchen with limited space, a slow cooker is probably the better option compared to a stove-top pressure cooker plus a dutch oven. And there is the convenience of "set and forget", especially for temperature.

On the other hand, it's probably difficult to make good sourdough bread in a slow cooker (or a number of other oven dishes that need high heat and air circulation). It's hard to beat the versatility of an oven.

But, if you are constrained in space (or, alternatively, have lots of it), I think a slow cooker can make sense. I get the impression though that slow cookers (much like air fryers) are a bit of a fashion trend at the moment. (Remember when everyone had to have a juice extractor?)


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## Luftmensch (Mar 18, 2020)

I went to a sushi making class a few years back...

... I was the only gaijin/gweilo (my words, said in good humour) in the class. That correlated perfectly with the number of people in the class who did not own a rice cooker. All considered, we have a fairly low tech kitchen...


[Errr... .... I also do my horizontal swipes perpendicular to the board... I never got comfortable doing them parallel)


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## Michi (Mar 18, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> [Errr... .... I also do my horizontal swipes perpendicular to the board... I never got comfortable doing them parallel)


Oh my… I think that's at least five Dalstrongs and two Forged in Fires for you!


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## Nagakin (Mar 18, 2020)

@Michi definitely space. That's the fun part about living in Seattle...I make more than twice the national average for cooks and still qualify for low income housing.


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## stringer (Mar 18, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> [Errr... .... I also do my horizontal swipes perpendicular to the board... I never got comfortable doing them parallel)



That's actually why this thread is called what it is. I usually do my horizontal swipes perpendicular as well. Here in the USA we grow our produce real big. and you can get more swipes in and with better control if you do them vertically. Which works out better for JUMBO Spanish onions.


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## Michi (Mar 18, 2020)

Nagakin said:


> @Michi definitely space. That's the fun part about living in Seattle...I make more than twice the national average for cooks and still qualify for low income housing.


Man, I had had no idea 

Hang in there. I truly do admire your passion!


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## Michi (Mar 18, 2020)

stringer said:


> That's actually why this thread is called what it is. I usually do my horizontal swipes perpendicular as well.


One more serving of Dalstrongs and Forged in Fires coming right up!


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## stringer (Mar 18, 2020)

Like this


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## Michi (Mar 18, 2020)

@stringer: How dare you! You just posted a video providing proof that it is possible to apply horizontal swipes vertically.

Are you really aware of what you just have done? Do you know how many culinary school students' illusions you just shattered? Do you not care about centuries of tradition and wisdom? Are you aware of the penalty for violating dogma?

Have you heard of Galileo Galilei?

There are some very patient and skilled people who know how to ask questions. Over a prolonged period. With tools. Usually underground.

They are waiting for you, somewhere…


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 18, 2020)

Michi said:


> @stringer:
> 
> There are some very patient and skilled people who know how to ask questions. Over a prolonged period. With tools. Usually underground.
> 
> They are waiting for you, somewhere…



Is one of them dressed in a full size saya without air holes?


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## Michi (Mar 18, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Is one of them dressed in a full size saya without air holes?


You do not know of my darker side—yet…


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## Luftmensch (Mar 19, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> [Errr... .... I also do my horizontal swipes perpendicular to the board... I never got comfortable doing them parallel)





Michi said:


> One more serving of Dalstrongs and Forged in Fires coming right up!





stringer said:


> That's actually why this thread is called what it is.



Hehehe! Oh man... yeah.... That probably sounded sarcastic!? Sorry... I don't mean to belittle the thread! Very interesting indeed. I'm enjoying the heck out of seeing people's technique! I rather unsuccessfully tried to communicate a 'self-aware' post-note to my otherwise off topic comment. .... as if to be read: "I couldn't help commenting on kitchen gadgetry, not the main point of the thread, so here is my weak contribution on the topic".  - not successfully communicated, I know! 

Even more disgusting.... who closes a left square bracket with a right parenthesis? Yuck!


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## Luftmensch (Mar 19, 2020)

Michi said:


> You do not know of my darker side—yet…





(Do you think the piano tuner in that scene ever tuned the piano properly? I thought it was a bold choice for a scene track... usually the music director chooses a finished composition)


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## Michi (Mar 19, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Do you think the piano tuner in that scene ever tuned the piano properly?


I can't remember—I watched that movie when it first came out. I probably should re-watch it and pay attention to the piano tuner.


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## ian (Mar 19, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> (Do you think the piano tuner in that scene ever tuned the piano properly? I thought it was a bold choice for a scene track... usually the music director chooses a finished composition)



Hah! My guess is no, since they spent like an hour working on one key.

I was a fan of that soundtrack, though.


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## Garm (Mar 19, 2020)

I'm just guessing it was the same person who wrote the "Jaws" soundtrack.
You can really hear his evolution as a composer. Still just two notes used, but so much more advanced rhythmically..


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## ian (Mar 19, 2020)

Garm said:


> I'm just guessing it was the same person who wrote the "Jaws" soundtrack.
> You can really hear his evolution as a composer. Still just two notes used, but so much more advanced rhythmically..



This was a joke, right? Jaws=John Williams, EWS=Jocelyn Pook


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## Garm (Mar 19, 2020)

ian said:


> This was a joke, right? Jaws=John Williams, EYS=Jocelyn Pook


Yes, I hoped it would be abundantly clear with the rhytmically advanced part, but perhaps I should have added an emoji of some sort.
For the record, I like the EWS soundtrack too. Less can absolutely be more.
I better stop now before I further derail the derailment of..


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## ian (Mar 19, 2020)

Garm said:


> Yes, I hoped it would be abundantly clear with the rhytmically advanced part, but perhaps I should have added an emoji of some sort.
> For the record, I like the EWS soundtrack too. Less can absolutely be more.
> I better stop now before I further derail the derailment of..



Man, I have this problem all the time. The lack of expressivity in written text + not really knowing the person who’s writing = lots of confusion.


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## Garm (Mar 19, 2020)

ian said:


> Man, I have this problem all the time. The lack of expressivity in written text + not really knowing the person who’s writing = lots of confusion.


Yeah, I hear you. That makes two of us.
Also, I'm no longer as fluent in English as I used to be, which probably adds a little extra confusion sometimes.


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## Barclid (Mar 21, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Not directed at Barclid specifically, I just wanted the picture... so, when I did my training long ago, I was taught simply to discard the pieces marked in green (they would go into stock or whatever) and finely dice only the core section as it were. That way you avoided uneveness and (allegedly) saved time. Anyone does that these days?


Yeah depends on the kitchen. I've definitely done that before too. Depends where the trim can get used on the menu vs. being relegated to staff.


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## captaincaed (Apr 14, 2020)

Stringers lentils are really yummy. I think I could have pushed the onion topping a bit further but ran out of time. They still tasted like spicy candy.
I think this one deserves a spot in the recipe section.


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