# Misono Steel Types



## Ruppertsreef (Sep 2, 2022)

Just wondering if anyone can link an article describing the differences between these steel types offered. 

Misono Molybdenum Steel Series.

Misono Sweden Steel Series | Forged Carbon Steel.

Misono 440 Professional Series.

Misono UX10 Series | Pure Sweden Stainless Steel.


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## Benuser (Sep 3, 2022)

Haven't used the Molys. What the series have in common is a very high level of Fit&Finish, and very serious QC. 
That being said, the factory edges look great but suffer from overly convexing and weakness due to excessive buffing. Recent ones I've seen were considerably thicker behind the edge than I was used to. So OOTB they will require some serious work — which is not uncommon at their price point. 
Some retailers offer a free initial stone sharpening. Don't miss that opportunity.

The 440 is made of 440C, a stainless with serious bite but still remarkably easy sharpening. 
The Misono Swedish carbon is very finely grained, offering a crazy sharpness and very easy sharpening but not the kind of bite a lot of people are looking for. It is relatively soft: around 59Rc. Retailers claim a higher hardness that doesn't match with my experience.
The UX-10 has an innovative design you may like or not: I do like it, and it still is very comfortable. The steel is Sandvik's 19C27, originally developed for industrial applications — think cutting steel. Large, regularly distributed carbides, offering a lot of bite. The bite remains even when perfectly dull, which explains its popularity amongst professional users who don't sharpen themselves and have a peculiar idea of sharpness. Sharpening it is no fun at all.
Please note they all come with a serious right bias: right face convexed, left one much flatter, edge off-centered to the left. All are available with an inverted geometry for left-handers, which is a much better and lasting solution than neutralising the edge as some retailers offer: the geometry behind the edge remains strongly asymmetric and the neutral edge doesn't correspond to it.


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## chefwp (Sep 3, 2022)

Ruppertsreef said:


> Just wondering if anyone can link an article describing the differences between these steel types offered.
> 
> Misono Molybdenum Steel Series.
> 
> ...


The Moly is very soft and has really poor edge retention, if you are in a commercial kitchen I'd avoid it. I was also not a fan of the 70/30 asymmetrical bevels.


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## Benuser (Sep 3, 2022)

chefwp said:


> I was also not a fan of the 70/30 asymmetrical bevels.


What is it that do you find problematic about that geometry, that is perfectly common with Japanese knives?
In fact, they are a further development of the Sabatier from the end of the 19th century, that already offered a more convex right face to allow better food release, and a flatter left side to make thin slicing somewhat easier. Anyway, sides being each others' mirror-image will work as a wedge. This Sab model has been adopted by all makers of that time.
The only difference the Japanese makers have introduced is the off-centering of the edge to the left, optimising the geometry for right-handers. They could do so as left-handers tended to be ignored in their culture, to put it mildly. If you experience more steering than you're used to you may reduce it by increasing sharpening angle of the left side, and thin behind the right edge, both to balance the friction on both sides. 
With vintage Sabs and their Solingen and Sheffield followers off-centering the edge to some extent will allow the right bevel to form a continuous arc with the right face, and benefit performance — at least for right-handers.


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## inferno (Sep 3, 2022)

Ruppertsreef said:


> Just wondering if anyone can link an article describing the differences between these steel types offered.
> 
> Misono Molybdenum Steel Series.


its most likely aus8 ran soft. mac runs it at 58hrc uncryoed and at "over 60" cryoed then this is very good steel. very good compromise.


Ruppertsreef said:


> Misono Sweden Steel Series | Forged Carbon Steel.


most likely a 1095 variant. quite likely uddeholm uhb20c


Ruppertsreef said:


> Misono 440 Professional Series.


might be some 440 type steel. like 440c or b


Ruppertsreef said:


> Misono UX10 Series | Pure Sweden Stainless Steel.


this is most likely sandvik 19c27. sandvik materials technology is now operating as alleima 

_*In May 2019, the decision was made by the Sandvik Board of Directors to initiate an internal separation of the business area Sandvik Materials Technology with the intention to increase the structural independence from the Sandvik Group and explore the possibility of a separate listing of the Company on the Nasdaq Stockholm stock exchange. On March 23, 2022, the Sandvik Board of Directors decided to propose the distribution and listing of Sandvik Materials Technology to the Annual General Meeting on April 27, 2022. It was also decided that Alleima will be the new name of Sandvik Materials Technology as of listing. Sandvik’s Annual General Meeting on April 27, 2022, resolved to distribute the shares in Alleima to the shareholders of Sandvik in accordance with the Board of Directors’ proposal.*_






History — Alleima







www.alleima.com


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## inferno (Sep 3, 2022)

all of these steel can make a good blade. it depends on how it HT:ed.

i'd take macs cryoed aus8 over many many other steels. its still regarded as a "low grade steel". the thing is that if its worked right is not that low grade anymore.


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## chefwp (Sep 3, 2022)

Benuser said:


> What is it that do you find problematic about that geometry, that is perfectly common with Japanese knives?
> In fact, they are a further development of the Sabatier from the end of the 19th century, that already offered a more convex right face to allow better food release, and a flatter left side to make thin slicing somewhat easier. Anyway, sides being each others' mirror-image will work as a wedge. This Sab model has been adopted by all makers of that time.
> The only difference the Japanese makers have introduced is the off-centering of the edge to the left, optimising the geometry for right-handers. They could do so as left-handers tended to be ignored in their culture, to put it mildly. If you experience more steering than you're used to you may reduce it by increasing sharpening angle of the left side, and thin behind the right edge, both to balance the friction on both sides.
> With vintage Sabs and their Solingen and Sheffield followers off-centering the edge to some extent will allow the right bevel to form a continuous arc with the right face, and benefit performance — at least for right-handers.


I wasn't trying to make a blanket statement against the geometry, it just wasn't for me. The reason now is simply that I prefer the 50/50 bevels because they mesh best with how I sharpen, I find them easier to maintain, and I am content with the way they preform. Back then though, it was a slightly different story. It was about 15 years ago I bought the Misono 240mm moly and to put it simply, I didn't know then what I know now, which is also a bit of an understatement. I don't remember any steerage issues, but I had no confidence in sharpening it; I also thought it was my sharpening that was the reason why it got so dull so fast. Back then the knife saw a lot of use in a commercial kitchen until it quickly fell out of favor and I almost stopped using it altogether. I understand now that it was probably less about my not-frequrent-enough sharpening and more about the soft steel and the thin geometry that was so confounding. I sold it a couple years ago, hopefully it is getting the love it deserves. I still have a tiny Misono 140mm moly santoku, it's kinda cool, I still grab it for really quick and small tasks.


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## panda (Sep 3, 2022)

UX10, nice knife, terrible steel. would be awesome in their Swedish carbon.


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## blokey (Sep 3, 2022)

Always kind weird to me people likes sharpening Ginsan but not 19c27, I never used an UX10 tho.


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## iimi (Sep 3, 2022)

blokey said:


> Always kind weird to me people likes sharpening Ginsan but not 19c27, I never used an UX10 tho.


Ginsan is pretty nice feeling on the stones, 19c27 has more of the nails on chalkboard feel even on nice feeling stones like a cerax. Prob large carbides to blame for that. Also harder to deburr, ginsan is easy to deburr in my experience and while 19c27 isn't the worst, it's definitely more work than ginsan is.


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## blokey (Sep 4, 2022)

Brakedeezbohnz said:


> Ginsan is pretty nice feeling on the stones, 19c27 has more of the nails on chalkboard feel even on nice feeling stones like a cerax. Prob large carbides to blame for that. Also harder to deburr, ginsan is easy to deburr in my experience and while 19c27 isn't the worst, it's definitely more work than ginsan is.


That's the thing tho, they are very close in composition if not the same. So it's the heat treatment on UX10 just not optimal?


Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Sandvik 19C27, Hitachi Ginsan Version 4.36


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## William Hunt (Sep 4, 2022)

I remember reading good reviews about the Suisin Inox Honyaki, which is 19c27. I only have one Misono knife and it’s the Swedish carbon. After years of sharpening it probably has a 60/40 edge. Awesome knife (270 sujihiki), in my opinion.
Anyone know what steel was used for the Konosuke Swedish Stainless? I’ve read 19c27 as a majority opinion but I’m still not sure what it is. That knife gets sharp easily.


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## Troopah_Knives (Sep 4, 2022)

blokey said:


> That's the thing tho, they are very close in composition if not the same. So it's the heat treatment on UX10 just not optimal?
> 
> 
> Composition Comparison Graph For The Knife Steels Sandvik 19C27, Hitachi Ginsan Version 4.36


 Yes. For some reason, the idea is floating around out there that Ginsan is similar to AEB-L when it is instead much more similar(basically the same as) to AEB-H/19c27. I see little evidence to believe that Ginsan has significantly smaller carbides than 19c27. They have nearly identical compositions (19c27 is within the Ginsan spec) and I don't see any reason to think that Ginsan has been processed in a more ideal way.

I think the difficulty in sharpening likely stems from having wider bevels or some similar geometric change rather than the steel itself.


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