# Tojiro ITK 270 bread knife vs Richmond Artifex 270



## Charon (Aug 27, 2013)

This is my first post. I hope I'm not posting in the wrong place. 

So, I'm looking for a bread knife, and I don't know if I should go with the Tojiro ITK 270 or the Richmond Artifex 270. 

Which would be easier to sharpen? ( VG10 or AEB-L )

The Richmond is serrated all the way to the heel, the Tojiro seems to have a flat spot right on the heel. 
How much does this affect performance?

The handles are very different, which would be more comfortable? 

At this moment the Richmond is 30$ more that the Tojiro. Is it worth the extra cost?


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## rdm_magic (Aug 27, 2013)

Get the tojiro.


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## Dusty (Aug 27, 2013)

Do what he said. ^^^


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## Charon (Aug 27, 2013)

rdm_magic said:


> Get the tojiro.



Why? you did not give and reasons


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## tripleq (Aug 27, 2013)

I've owned both. Between the two I prefer the Tojiro. That being said the Misono Moly bread knife destroys them both in terms of performance, sharpness and edge retention. I don't know what the price difference is between the 3 but even if the Misono is the most expensive you won't regret it. Awesome knife.


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## mainaman (Aug 27, 2013)

Charon said:


> Why? you did not give and reasons


 Tojiro knows how to make a functional knife?


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## ThEoRy (Aug 27, 2013)

[video=youtube;dvNs4zB6zXg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvNs4zB6zXg[/video]

That's why.


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## chinacats (Aug 27, 2013)

Mac! Unless you don't care at all about fit and finish.


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## Dusty (Aug 27, 2013)

Charon said:


> Why? you did not give and reasons



Well, Rick's video s a good start. But the biggest reason for me is the nature of the serrations. The Tojiro is a scalloped edge meaning that the 'teeth' are actually little hemispheres rather than pointy sharks teeth like the Richmond. What this means performance-wise is that the knife is a little less aggressive, but is much more versatile. It will make very little crumb when slicing sponges or bread, but still sail through very crusty loaves. Also the scallops are easier to sharpen.

Tojiro's vg-10 treatment is also a lot better then aeb-l in Richmond's hands.


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## K-Fed (Aug 27, 2013)

Tojiro, I have one, or Mac, two other guys at work, chef included use em. Both fantastic knives though the mac is a bit more agressive in its serrations than the tojiro.


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## Dave Martell (Aug 27, 2013)

...


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## Dave Martell (Aug 27, 2013)

If you go Tojiro or MAC check out CutleryandMore for the best prices.

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/tojiro/itk-bread-knife-p124765

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/mac-superior/bread-knife-p18087?gclid=CP6iudf3nbkCFcyY4AodqjUAKQ


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## kartman35 (Aug 27, 2013)

What makes you think the Tojiro is VG-10? I've always seen it listed as "molybdenum-vanadium steel"..


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## labor of love (Aug 27, 2013)

heres a prime example of comparing steel types, when it really shouldnt matter. even if its V-whatever i would take it over a richmond anything everyday of the week.


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## K-Fed (Aug 27, 2013)

Here's a sampling of bread knives we've got at work. 




Traditional bread knife serrations




Tojiro




Mac


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## kartman35 (Aug 27, 2013)

Is it just me or do the close-ups of the Mac and Tojiro show the cutting edges much more similar to one another than Dave's illustrations would suggest? I can't tell any difference at all between those two edges...

As for the steel types...I'm not saying it makes a difference, but the OP seemed interested in that aspect so I figured he might as well be sure what the knife is actually made of since it seems to make a difference to him.

I have a Tojiro bread knife and like it very much, however it came shipped with a burr significant enough to catch my thumbnail...wasn't a big deal to fix. Also someone on here recently had a bad handle issue with theirs. My take is that the Mac is more likely to come with better F&F for the extra bucks, but as long as you can return a lemon if you get unlucky then take your pick between those two.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 27, 2013)

You're right, having owned the MAC myself, I can say it's not truly scalloped. But it does have more aggressive scallops than the Tojiro. Very nice, for a bread knife


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## Charon (Aug 27, 2013)

wow, thanks guys. I'm really blown away by so many great responses (with pics. even)!

I am not particularly interested in the steel. I just wanted to know why the Richmond is more expensive. 

It doesn't matter anymore, for the money I was willing to shell for a Richmond I will get the Mac instead.


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## mpukas (Aug 27, 2013)

I've been using a Wusthof 10" bread knife for years, before I got into Japanese knives and really knew nothing then. Very rarely use it, but it's good for what it is. I've never paid too much attention to serrated knives. This is a very informative thread for me. I may actually add a Jojiro or Mac to the WANT list. Cheers! :wink:


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## rdm_magic (Aug 27, 2013)

I always just cut bread with my gyuto, although I rarely have to cut bread.. Is there a reason that I shouldn't use it?


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## CrisAnderson27 (Aug 27, 2013)

rdm_magic said:


> I always just cut bread with my gyuto, although I rarely have to cut bread.. Is there a reason that I shouldn't use it?



Theory's video was pretty persuasive lol. I cut bread with my gyuto (it seems to do a pretty creditable job without smashing things, amazingly)...but if I were doing the things he was doing with bread in that video...a good bread knife would be a no brainer.

I'm no pro chef though, so take my commentary with a grain of salt, lol.


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## Dusty (Aug 27, 2013)

rdm_magic said:


> I always just cut bread with my gyuto, although I rarely have to cut bread.. Is there a reason that I shouldn't use it?



A *really* crusty loaf can microchip a *really* fine-edged gyuto. I've had this happen to me, and its quite humbling.


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## tripleq (Aug 27, 2013)

Dusty said:


> A *really* crusty loaf can microchip a *really* fine-edged gyuto. I've had this happen to me, and its quite humbling.



I made dinner for a *really* fine woman once who bit into a *really* crusty piece of bread and broke her tooth in half. My knives were ok though. Phew!


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## brianh (Aug 27, 2013)

I just sent back the Tojiro cuz the handle fit was not great. Had gaps. Cutleryandmore was easy to work with. Was a cool knife otherwise.


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## bahamaroot (Aug 27, 2013)

I have a 20yr old $10, made in China, surgical steel, "As Seen On T.V. Knife" to cut bread when I'm not cutting up aluminum cans. Still have the free one in a closet somewhere that's never been out of the box. I guess if I worked in a pro kitchen cutting bread I might have an expensive bread knife.


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## chinacats (Aug 27, 2013)

brianh said:


> I just sent back the Tojiro cuz the handle fit was not great. Had gaps. Cutleryandmore was easy to work with. Was a cool knife otherwise.



I suppose Tojiro hired the same person to do QC as Moritaka (who also happens to work for crap knives to go in his spare time)--amazing the POS's these companies are willing to release with their names on it.


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## mainaman (Aug 27, 2013)

chinacats said:


> I suppose Tojiro hired the same person to do QC as Moritaka (who also happens to work for crap knives to go in his spare time)--amazing the POS's these companies are willing to release with their names on it.


Cheap Tojiro =Made in China, can't expect too much for the money


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## chinacats (Aug 27, 2013)

I guess they make the itk series there as well? My only other knife experience w/ tojiro which was also a pos. As to being made in China, Apple makes many products there and they're just fine. CCK has much better grinds and even fit and finish is better on my cleaver than either cheap tojiro. To me I still blame whoever is willing to put their name on a product and not give enough of a crap to make sure it is made to their standards--I could care less where it is manufactured. Again, just like moritaka and richmond--crap because of total lack of qc. That said, I know many people enjoy their Tojiro bread knives.

Sorry to derail, just tired of seeing crap sold/advertised as quality.


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## don (Aug 28, 2013)

chinacats said:


> Sorry to derail, just tired of seeing crap sold/advertised as quality.



Perfectly acceptable to derail for this purpose in my opinion. I have a tojiro shirogami and it's extremely rough at best. Can't believe I paid more than $20 for the knife.


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## rdm_magic (Aug 28, 2013)

I think we need to remember in the case of tojiro that they are a budget brand; I'd personally expect rough f&f, but you get a reasonable alloy at a good price. Moritakas are different, but I don't want to comment on them. The one I handled was okay.


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## tk59 (Aug 28, 2013)

I have a Tojiro ITK breadknife. Fit and finish isn't MAC but it's a good knife. I'd still recommend it or the MAC over any other breadknives I've used.


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## Flyingpigg (Aug 28, 2013)

My coworker has a Tojiro Shirogami nakiri, and I noticed an overgrind in it the other day. It still seems to be a decent knife, and the overgrind hasn't really been an issue for him yet.


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