# Can’t decide on a 1000



## Staystrapped (Oct 26, 2020)

Hey all,

Fairly new to sharpening and here is my dilemma...

Bought the cerax 1000/3000 combo and hated it. It seemed so soft and dished out so I returned it. I have a king 320 that I love. I want a slow wearing 1000 to move up to. Thought about the king 1200 but I hear king stones wear quite fast in general. I’m open to suggestions


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## tostadas (Oct 26, 2020)

Shapton Kuromaku are fairly hard, long-wearing stones that wont break the bank. Much harder than King (and I havent tried a Cerax, but I imagine it would also hold true). One thing to note is that the 1000 Shapton is on the rougher side of 1000. It's often compared to an 800. I like mine very much, and would highly recommend to anyone, especially those that are just starting out.


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## JDC (Oct 26, 2020)

King 1000 is not as hard as shapton pro 1000, but no where near soft. I actually prefer its edge to sp 1000, more refined yet quite toothy. It's just a tad slower than the shapton, and need to be soaked.


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## ModRQC (Oct 26, 2020)

Naniwa Pro 800 is my favorite.

Lots of love for the NP1000 also around here.

SP1000 is a nice middle stone in a progression, but the edge it leaves is so so - I usually finish SS from SP1000 on SP2000. Nice quick refiner/touch upper, that one. Edit: 100% with JDC's opinion.

All hard stones that won't dish easily. Get the NP800 and you'll never need another med-coarse. Work its slurry to get a comparable yet somewhat more interesting edge than SP2000.


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## Staystrapped (Oct 26, 2020)

I should have mentioned that I only have 50$ to spend


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## ModRQC (Oct 26, 2020)

US 50?... Find another 10$ or so for the Naniwa...

But yeah JDC's suggestion stands best then, or the SP1000, but I think the King is generally the preferred option of the two.


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## daveb (Oct 26, 2020)

I've read (but no direct experience) that King offers a 1K stone that doesn't dish as badly as the classic compressed orange mud. Maybe called Hyper? Hopefully someone will have some experience with it.


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## nwshull (Oct 26, 2020)

I really enjoy the feel of my morihei 1000, much smoother than say a shapton while still being splash and go. Its not outrageously expensive but is more than 50.


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## Staystrapped (Oct 26, 2020)

Anyone have the sp1500?


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## nwshull (Oct 26, 2020)

Staystrapped said:


> Anyone have the sp1500?


I used to, I preferred it to the 1000 in terms of smoothness. Does cut a little slower.


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## Matus (Oct 26, 2020)

Shapton Pro 1000 is a stone that simply gets the job done fast and does not cost much. Feels acceptably too.


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## Staystrapped (Oct 26, 2020)

Ok kuromako 1000 it is thank you all for the help


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## JDC (Oct 26, 2020)

My king 1000 is the deluxe version with standard hardness, not muddy at all. It was also Murray Carter's choice before he switched to nanohone. 

I really recommend against kuromako 1000 for the edge, this stone shines if you need quick job on maintaining wide-bevels. For the edge the king is better, and like ModRQC said, spending a little bit more on a Naniwa pro is better rewarding.


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## Staystrapped (Oct 26, 2020)

Well the naniwa is like 80 so that’s not happening lol


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## Staystrapped (Oct 26, 2020)

Darn it now you got me to change my mind


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## Knife2meatu (Oct 26, 2020)

JDC said:


> My king 1000 is the deluxe version with standard hardness, not muddy at all.


Standard hardness as opposed to what, exactly?

There's only 1 hardness of King Deluxe 1k, afaik. The number of user reviews describing their King Deluxe as very muddy, far outnumbers to number of people who consider it *not muddy at all*.

It is pretty damned muddy, I'd say.


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## ModRQC (Oct 26, 2020)

King Hyper I think sells as 1200. Not very expensive though, if that’s the one.


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## PappaG (Oct 26, 2020)

I am familiar with King 1000 and King 1200 deluxe. both are reasonably priced, usually $25-$40. Then there is a King Hyper which is double the cost (to confuse matters more there are two different King Hypers) - both around $60.


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## JDC (Oct 26, 2020)

Burrfection, (let’s not talk about ryky...), has a mini stone set with smaller naniwa pro 800 and 3000. My friend bought it a little while ago, not too small at all. He has a lot of premium knives but just started sharpening. He said he is totally satisfied by the edge this set gives, and will not buy additional stones.


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## JDC (Oct 26, 2020)

Knife2meatu said:


> Standard hardness as opposed to what, exactly?
> 
> There's only 1 hardness of King Deluxe 1k, afaik. The number of user reviews describing their King Deluxe as very muddy, far outnumbers to number of people who consider it *not muddy at all*.
> 
> It is pretty damned muddy, I'd say.





I bought this from Carter cutlery long time ago. I don’t know why, but it doesn’t self slurry much...


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## ModRQC (Oct 26, 2020)

I understand a money problem, but the naniwa Pro will last longer, is very easily usable as a one stone stop, and will not only have the job done, it will redefine your idea of a good med stone. I couldn't even believe when I got it first that a stone so hard could feel so smooth.


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## inferno (Oct 26, 2020)

I would just get the shapton pro 1k. having owned at least 10 different ~1k stones this is the still the best allround stone of them imo. and i think it was actually the cheapest too.

for the price of the naniwa pro 800 you might even get both the shapton 2k and the 1k in some places.
also the naniwa pros are prone to cracking.


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## ModRQC (Oct 26, 2020)

inferno said:


> I would just get the shapton pro 1k. having owned at least 10 different ~1k stones this is the still the best allround stone of them imo. and i think it was actually the cheapest too.
> 
> for the price of the naniwa pro 800 you might even get both the shapton 2k and the 1k in some places.
> also the naniwa pros are prone to cracking.



Choseras I think were prone to cracking because of the base and ill drying. And NP800 is by far a better all-rounder - meaning much more versatile in use. SP1000 is perhaps the best straightforward and easy stone though, that I would agree to.


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## inferno (Oct 26, 2020)

i have the 800 pro and mine has started to crack. spiderwebs.
that alone makes it a far worse stone to buy than the shaptons. plus its at least 50% more expensive, which its not really worth imo. 

it makes a better kasumi finish easier than the shapton, but thats pretty much it. and who stops at 1k here really anyway?


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## ModRQC (Oct 26, 2020)

Your Naniwa did. 

As I said earlier, SP1000 is a nice stone in a progression. There I think the extra speed (on NP800) and absence of real versatility makes it a good choice. 

Where feeling/feedback is concerned, just there, the NP800 is so much better. 

But anyway, all opinions to help the OP decide, and he won't be worse off with the Shapton for the price.


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## Staystrapped (Oct 26, 2020)

Ok i ordered the sp1000 trust me I’d like to order the kitayama 8000 too Or a complete naniwa set but my wife is traumatized with my “hobby spending” Lol


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## Staystrapped (Oct 26, 2020)

I appreciate all the help this is a great board


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## ModRQC (Oct 26, 2020)

Good choice too, the goal is to sharpen after all, and you'll certainly be a thousand worlds apart from "soft" and "muddy" with the SP.


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## JDC (Oct 26, 2020)

Staystrapped said:


> but my wife is traumatized with my “hobby spending” Lol


Totally understand that


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## Qapla' (Oct 26, 2020)

Staystrapped said:


> Ok i ordered the sp1000 trust me I’d like to order the kitayama 8000 too Or a complete naniwa set but my wife is traumatized with my “hobby spending” Lol


What knives are you sharpening? You might not need a Kitayama 8000 or other such stones.


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## tostadas (Oct 26, 2020)

Staystrapped said:


> Ok i ordered the sp1000 trust me I’d like to order the kitayama 8000 too Or a complete naniwa set but my wife is traumatized with my “hobby spending” Lol



No need to second guess your decision. Great choice that should easily last you for a long long time. Do like I did, tell your wife that you're _*saving*_ money by not having to pay for professional sharpening or throwing away dulled knives. However, to balance off those savings, you will have to spend a lot more on new stones and knives.


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## daveb (Oct 26, 2020)

Staystrapped said:


> Ok i ordered the sp1000 trust me I’d like to order the kitayama 8000 too Or a complete naniwa set but my wife is traumatized with my “hobby spending” Lol



Might as well learn early. Buy her a purse, buy a knife. Buy her the matching wallet and buy another knife.


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## Staystrapped (Oct 26, 2020)

She does like picking up the old junk kitchen knife and actually being able to cut something with it. I’ve also started cooking way more since the pandemic which goes hand in hand with sharp knives.


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## Staystrapped (Oct 26, 2020)

I sharpen a variety of knives from abused moraknivs that I take saltwater fishing to my low end yanagi. I hope to pick up another decent Japanese knives. Do I need a kitayama 8000...probably not but I will get a finishing stone at some point. I made the beginners mistake of buying the cheap combo stones from amazon and got decent results but they are garbage and will be used to sharpen garbage knives.


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## HSS (Oct 28, 2020)

A 1000# stone which is called marble 1000 is much better than other existing stones in the market. The stone is sold in Hong Kong.
High abrasive power ,anti dishing effect and good self cleaning ability.
Its abrasive ability is higher than Hyper King 1000 and Bester 1000. Some black powder always trap on the surface of Hyper and Bester 1000. But this phenomenon does not occurred 
in the Marble stone 1000.


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## IsoJ (Oct 28, 2020)

HSS said:


> A 1000# stone which is called marble 1000 is much better than other existing stones in the market. The stone is sold in Hong Kong.
> High abrasive power ,anti dishing effect and good self cleaning ability.
> Its abrasive ability is higher than Hyper King 1000 and Bester 1000. Some black powder always trap on the surface of Hyper and Bester 1000. But this phenomenon does not occurred
> in the Marble stone 1000.


Any link?


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## ModRQC (Oct 28, 2020)

Nope, just mystique... Hong Kong mystique.


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## HSS (Oct 28, 2020)

you may see the Facebook of Sun E Hamono Shop


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## HSS (Oct 28, 2020)




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## HSS (Oct 28, 2020)

using it to sharpen s90v for about 15 strokes


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## HSS (Oct 28, 2020)

Chosera is Mg type of stone that prolonged immersing in water will cause cracking.
Bester and Marble 1000 are ceramic types that can remain stable even immersed in water for a long time.


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## JDC (Oct 28, 2020)

Why this looks like a JNS 1000...


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## M1k3 (Oct 28, 2020)

HSS said:


> you may see the Facebook of Sun E Hamono Shop


There's quite a few of us not on Facebook.


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## Staystrapped (Oct 28, 2020)

I don’t do Facebook I have enough problems lol


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## JDC (Oct 28, 2020)

OK I found a link:


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## ModRQC (Oct 28, 2020)

It looks like some Synth jnats


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## ModRQC (Oct 28, 2020)

Bernal Cutlery Takarazukushi 1000 Hard Yellow Marble Ceramic Japanese Whetstone


Hard 1000 grit yellow marble stone that is very fast cutting and well suited to bring up an edge on a fairly dull edge. These work on a variety of knife and gri




bernal-cutlery.shoplightspeed.com





Not saying it's the same, just finding my marbles...


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## Staystrapped (Oct 28, 2020)

68$ ...I’ll stick with the sp1000 for 40 delivered


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## ModRQC (Oct 28, 2020)

It looks sort of nice, but I would yet have to see that it is sooo much better than other ceramic stones. SP will do what you require of it anyhow, especially if you have a finisher to progress onto after.


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## Matus (Oct 28, 2020)

daveb said:


> Might as well learn early. Buy her a purse, buy a knife. Buy her the matching wallet and buy another knife.


Wise words. I met a guy who started to buy his wife a pair of earrings every time he was getting a pair of high end vintage speakers (read - huge). There were like 5 pairs in their living room when I visited him. She looked very relaxed - dare I say, happy.


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## ModRQC (Oct 28, 2020)

Not all women are like that... 

....
....
....

... but I don't hope for one not like that to enter my life anymore.

 Why can't I buy the luxury I can afford, and you buy yours, and we split our common things and make sure they get paid on time? How's that not a natural state of being?


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## Matus (Oct 28, 2020)

@ModRQC , I guess you know that none of the answers you will het here matters ...


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## ModRQC (Oct 28, 2020)

No they don't. I've been there... I'm never going back again. The last gf to play the wrongful act got single in the very next instant. The actual gf is actually not bad. She's had that kind of life where she doesn't expect anything from anyone, which suits me as I feel the same. She does look at my new knives funny. She's just like "Isn't 10 of these enough? What's with this one?"... I answer. She shrugs. Next topic.


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## HSS (Oct 28, 2020)

The red color stones #1000 such as King contain brown Al2O3 while while white color contain white Al2O3 .
The marble stone contains additional Zr oxide .
When using the marble to sharpen kitchen knives , just about 10 to 15 strokes , the burrs will appear on the opposite side of the edge . In our region , the chefs claimed that the stone is a ''turbo stone''.the price of the stone is USD 53/pc in H.K


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## M1k3 (Oct 28, 2020)

HSS said:


> The red color stones #1000 such as King contain brown Al2O3 while while white color contain white Al2O3 .
> The marble stone contains additional Zr oxide .
> When using the marble to sharpen kitchen knives , just about 10 to 15 strokes , the burrs will appear on the opposite side of the edge . In our region , the chefs claimed that the stone is a ''turbo stone''.the price of the stone is USD 53/pc in H.K


Is it available online without the use of Facebook?


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## ModRQC (Oct 29, 2020)

10-15 strokes for a burr, while relative, is still nothing I’d write home about for a med-coarse grit on your regular SS/alloy/carbon around 60-62 HRC or less...

As where to buy it, it’s seems more and more the same thing than Bernal’s Takarazukushi...


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## inferno (Oct 30, 2020)

have you recieved the sp1k yet staystrapped?


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## Staystrapped (Oct 30, 2020)

Yes I have


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## Staystrapped (Oct 30, 2020)

Now I have the king 320 and the sp 1000 
The plan was to true up the hira on my yanagi but I may instead glue some sandpaper to a flat surface and do it that way


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## Olsen (Oct 30, 2020)

JNS800 is a superb stone. A soaker and dishes so you need to flatten after each use. Gives a very good kasumi too. JNS1000 is splash'n'go and harder. I can warmly recommend both stones


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## inferno (Oct 30, 2020)

Staystrapped said:


> Yes I have



you like it?


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## Staystrapped (Oct 30, 2020)

I haven’t used it yet, got it yesterday evening. I’ll report back after use for sure


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## ModRQC (Oct 30, 2020)

Since you come from a much softer and muddier stone, do take some time to get to know the Shapton. The manufacturer recommends a soaking period before very first use, and recommend using the side without logo as to be able to use always the same side and keep it flat from there. I tend to simply rinse mine thoroughly before each use, as all my S&G, soak it for a couple of seconds the first time. If it bubbles I wait until it stops, if not (the SP1000 will not) it's all good for fun already.

Also keep it mind those Shaptons tend to come OOTB with the surface a bit glazed... you could use your coarse stone to give it a treat if you find that it is the case. Feels much better when broken in.

Have fun!


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## jacko9 (Oct 30, 2020)

In the 1K grit have the Shapton Glass, the Suehiro Cerax, The JNS stone, the Nubatama and a 1.2K Bester. The JNS stone cuts fast and doesn't dish out too much. The Shapton Glass doesn't seem to dish hardly at all but it doesn't cut that quickly. The Cerax dishes the fastest and it just sits on the shelf until I get around to disposing of it. The Nubatama stone I got was one thats extra hard and it doesn't dish at all but it is hard and I use it for wood chisels on the flat back. The Bester was promised to a neighbor and will be gone soon, I just don't like soaking stones.


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## Staystrapped (Oct 30, 2020)

Omg I love it! I ran my mora that was in ok shape on it and it put a nice working edge on it


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## ModRQC (Oct 30, 2020)

Cool then!


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## Staystrapped (Oct 30, 2020)

I think it will serve me well. I wish I had the 2000 and the 5000 lol I’m really liking these splash and gos


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## inferno (Oct 31, 2020)

i remember i actually made a little test a while back when i had more 1k stones. it might be worth a look for new users that wants a 1k.






Thinking about doing a 1k shootout.


I recently acquired a few new 1k's. So far i have: chosera/pro 800 shapton glass 1k shap pro 1k naniwa hibiki 1k kunsuto 1k from dictum king hyper 1k Thinking about doing some edge work on r2/srs-15, some thinning/flattening on ss and iron. and then maybe some polishing on cheap ss to show the...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## Staystrapped (Oct 31, 2020)

inferno said:


> i remember i actually made a little test a while back when i had more 1k stones. it might be worth a look for new users that wants a 1k.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow that was quite a post very informative you should make a YouTube channel


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