# Best very coarse stone



## SchmutzyStone (Dec 7, 2015)

I would like to purchase a good very high grit stone for reprofiling and thinning knives. I would like one that is good on hard and abrasion resistant steel. Which is a good stone to get. 

The only very high grit stones that I have seen online are the Newbatamas. They include several high grit stones from 20 to 180 and up. I don't want anything under 120 grit.
The full size stones are only sold in the U.S. by Ken Newbatama. I tried checking him out and to my dismay found that I cannot trust the accuracy of his information or the quality of his stones. I skimmed a number of his posts on CKTG, and most of them included segues to the products he sells (compounds and stones), even on topics that are unrelated to his products. It appears that he might be stretching the truth in order to increase sales of his products. Some of the posters on CKTG seem like decent people who want to help, but many of them seem somewhat gullible and uniformed to me. Unfortunately many of the frequent posters appear to be Ken Newbatama fanboys to me. 

There are very few independent postings of the N ubatama stones. My casual analysis indicates that they are likely to be over priced mediocre quality stones. Ken N. states that the 150 grit stone dishes slowly. He concluded this in his video after partially working with one knife for less than 5 minutes. His statements do not appear to me to be based on scientific or precise evaluation. Unfortunately his videos are a difficult watch and listen, as Mr. Newbatama's voice even has a screeching like quality that sounds like a blade being sharpened on a very coarse stone.

Anyway I would like to do better than the Nu 150 stone if possible. I would prefer not having to use diamond. and I hope to find a good quality coarse stone between 100 grit and 250 grit that cuts very fast, and if possible doesn't dish too fast.


The reviews of JKI's stones are outstanding, but I don't believe that he carries any very coarse whet stones.


----------



## SchmutzyStone (Dec 7, 2015)

I hadn't visited JKI in quite a while. I just checked and they have a 220 grit stone. I would prefer Splash and Go, but you can't have everything. I assume that the 220 grit is a good stone, although I might prefer something a little coarser for faster cutting.


----------



## Dardeau (Dec 7, 2015)

I have the Gesshin 220 and it is pretty quick. More importantly it dishes pretty slowly.


----------



## daveb (Dec 7, 2015)

I also have the G220 and it works well, albeit infrequently, for me. Most of Jon's core stones seem to be soakers - probably reflects his preferences. My favorite coarse S&G is the JNS 300. It's not a pretty stone but it cuts quickly and dishes slowly.

Your conclusions re Kens's products and marketing integrity seem spot on.


----------



## WingKKF (Dec 9, 2015)

I have the Gesshin 220 pink brick and in my experience, it dishes pretty quickly. Maybe other people don't use much pressure when using the stone but I just want to get that knife thinned out fast and I can turn the surface of the stone into stone paste in very short order. It is however the best value for money in my opinion, for that type of stone.

The JNS 300 would be something I'd like to try once the Gesshin 220 is done.


----------



## Smurfmacaw (Dec 10, 2015)

WingKKF said:


> I have the Gesshin 220 pink brick and in my experience, it dishes pretty quickly. Maybe other people don't use much pressure when using the stone but I just want to get that knife thinned out fast and I can turn the surface of the stone into stone paste in very short order. It is however the best value for money in my opinion, for that type of stone.
> 
> The JNS 300 would be something I'd like to try once the Gesshin 220 is done.



I concur, mine dishes pretty quickly but as you said, it takes off steel really fast.


----------



## Dave Martell (Dec 10, 2015)

daveb said:


> Your conclusions re Kens's products and marketing integrity seem spot on.




lus1:


----------



## V1P (Dec 10, 2015)

I have JNS300 and that thing has very good feedback, cuts super quick and dishes slowly. It is also splash & go.


----------



## cheflivengood (Dec 11, 2015)

Why don't you like diamond? If you are doing major thinning projects I wouldn't use anything other than a aotoma to start, then move to my g220 to remove scratches and final bit of metal. Very coarse stones, in order to release fresh abrasive frequently, dish quickly or they would clog too fast. I can understand being aprehensive putting a nice knife on a 140 diamond, but you get used to the sound and it still takes a fair amount of time to do some real damage.


----------



## mark76 (Dec 11, 2015)

G220? Shapton Glass 220? Gosera 220?


----------



## wbusby1 (Dec 11, 2015)

+1:


cheflivengood said:


> Why don't you like diamond? If you are doing major thinning projects I wouldn't use anything other than a aotoma to start, then move to my g220 to remove scratches and final bit of metal. Very coarse stones, in order to release fresh abrasive frequently, dish quickly or they would clog too fast. I can understand being aprehensive putting a nice knife on a 140 diamond, but you get used to the sound and it still takes a fair amount of time to do some real damage.



I've own and use the noobatama 150 and it dishes really quickly, but as said, all extra coarse stones will dish extra fast AND they're a pain to flatten as they can wear out a diamond flattening plate pretty darn quick. I only use mine to convert scratch marks from my atoma 140.


----------



## Castalia (Dec 11, 2015)

This:
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Shapton-Professional-120-P507.aspx


----------



## WingKKF (Dec 11, 2015)

@cheflivengood, rough diamond plates leave very deep uneven scratches and have a terrible feel. Feel is subjective however. One can always get a rough diamond plate and then use it to flatten stones if it doesn't feel good on the blade.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Dec 13, 2015)

Have used diamond plates quite a bit to thin thicker edge knives. Always lift the knife off the plate after edge trailing stroke. Not too much pressure let the diamonds do the work. That way do not scratch up sides of the knife esp. at low thinning angles.

We have two master Katana sharpeners here in Hawaii. Have hung out at ones house watching what he does to take a rusted bade back to a polished state. Its like the JNS logo on stones that are high in the middle. It is a lot of work on the stones and takes years to master. I consider myself a sharpening junkie, pale in comparison to these guys.

I have done quite a bit of open ocean kayaking. You have these guys that pride themselves on paddle strokes to steer. I screwed up my ribs rounding Kalapapa on north shore of Molokai in high seas & strong winds. Took a few years to heal. Did the north shore of Molokai again on a kayak with a rudder so easy just **** the rudder and paddle. The rudder is a great invention why not use it!

Hawaii has so many old blades, saws, garden tools, axes, hatchets, machete. I hate to think how many kids have sent good rusted steel to the dump. I have found old Japanese saws that actually have kanji engraved on them rusted but the saw teeth are still good. Some are very thin & flexible. They cut on the draw stroke. Some can cut down small trees to fine carpentry work. Also restored some Japanese planes.

When first started carving ice used a Japanese Ice saw. It was a workout roughing out a 300# ice block. Then started using a chain saw to rough shape a sculpture. I had to my business was picking up much easier. Got really good with a chainsaw.

Now my favorite way to thin is my 1X42 belt sander. Axes, Hatchets, Machete, garden tools, thick knives. I keep a bucket of water & thin without gloves so can feel any heat. Sorry if my point does not come across knocking back a few beers.


----------



## gic (Dec 13, 2015)

I find my sigma power 120 "black brick" very useful for tip repair etc. But it does require some coddling when it glazes over


----------



## aboynamedsuita (Dec 13, 2015)

daveb said:


> Your conclusions re Kens's products and marketing integrity seem spot on.





Dave Martell said:


> lus1:



With all due respect gentlemen, but until we can successfully sharpen our knives to +256k grit we should bow down to the master :justkidding:

I think it goes one step beyond, to the entire MARKeting and business model by ck2g. I've heard bad stories, and wasn't sure if it was just axe grinding. Only recently did I come across an incident on this forum which I also found on their forum (by Google search of the knife, I'm not a member) as well as YouTube. *I am now a true believer and see where all these bad stories come from.* I'll be voting with my pocketbook.

Regards,

T


----------



## aboynamedsuita (Dec 13, 2015)

Oh ya, I forgot what this thread was actually about lol. I got a 220 pink brick as Dave recommended them, I don't think I'd want to thin with an atomic 140, have read it's a PITA get scratches out after


----------

