# Expensive Junk



## mhenry

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0196.jpg

So I have been grinding on this damn handle all weekend trying to fix it. I give up:bashhead:, I just dont think I can salvage it. It has symmetry issues, its not flat, the bevels are too big, the taper is off, its a mess.The problems are subtle but big enough to qualify the handle for the trash can.

I have got 35.00 in that piece of Black Ash ,and I figure another conservative 15.00 in the ferrule, spacer, and misc. 50 bucks down the crapper. I am wondering how much junk if any you guys are producing and what you estimate your sucess rate is. I would put mine at around 70%.
Mike


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## Dave Martell

Anyone doing handles on any level is loosing some here and there. I know I've lost over $400-500 easily. I don't do wa-handles though - I bet I'd be worse at them even still. I feel your pain though man but at least you can feel better knowing that we all lose some.


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## Lefty

Yup. It happens. At least your junk handle shows some awesome skill, if it's any consolation...


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## apicius9

I just killed one yesterday that was almost done, happens all the time even after having done quite a few. Where I am 'losing' the most is on custom orders. They have to be a certain size and design, and if I mess up, it's often trash. If I just make my own designs, it's easier: When I start working on a gyuto handle and mess up the symmetry or something else, I just keep on sanding until I have it right and then call the thinner result a yanagi handle 

Too bad about yours, it looks real classy and with the metal spacers I can imagine the work you put into it.

Stefan


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## Pensacola Tiger

Mike,

Any chance you could be trim it into a wa-petty handle?

Rick


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## Eamon Burke

That's a good idea. A petty! Just grind it down, there's a smaller handle in there somewhere.


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## tk59

That's an interesting point. That looks heavy though. Wouldn't the resulting knife feel like all handle with nothing attached to it?


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## Lefty

You can hollow it out quite a bit with the right file/rasp to lose some weight, or even angle the bottom portion of the butt to lose a bit more material. Just a thought


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## EdipisReks

that handle looks really great, regardless of the flaws, so i'd try to figure out a way to salvage it.


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## SpikeC

As long as you've given up on it you might as well send it over to me and I will dispose of it safely!


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## l r harner

while i have latly made my fair share of junk (14 handles to get 8 steak knives done )

that looks fine and remember most WA are not perfect and also ther is nothing wrong with how a "flat" wa works since most of my tangs are tall i end up making many knives with "wa" handles that are taller then they are wide 
so long as you get the angles right having the sides a bit wider then the top and bottom are not bad and in some cases work better


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## Marko Tsourkan

I had 50% success rate until about 6-7 month ago. 

M


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## mhenry

Lefty said:


> Yup. It happens. At least your junk handle shows some awesome skill, if it's any consolation...


It is alot of consolation. Thanks


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## mhenry

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Mike,
> 
> Any chance you could be trim it into a wa-petty handle?
> 
> Rick



Hey Rick,
I suppose I could try, but I dont have a petty to put it on It was intended for a Konosuke Gyuto. The only petty I have has a Stefan handle.


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## tk59

Lefty said:


> You can hollow it out quite a bit with the right file/rasp to lose some weight...


 Is this kosher?


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## Lefty

The handle hole tends to be oversized, while the ferrule hole is snug, so it really shouldn't negatively affect anything. Certain epoxies expand quite dramatically (but keep the same weight). Not to mention, the shear strength in any decent epoxy is greater than that of wood. You'd effectively be losing mass, while increasing strength.


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## JohnnyChance

mhenry said:


> Hey Rick,
> I suppose I could try, but I dont have a petty to put it on It was intended for a Konosuke Gyuto. The only petty I have has a Stefan handle.


 
Sounds like an excuse to buy a new petty! Or make it for a petty and sell it.


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## Lefty

...Somebody should make an offer....


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## mhenry

I am going to try to salvage it, and make a petty handle. I will let you guys know how it turns out.
Thanks Mike


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## mhenry

tk59 said:


> That's an interesting point. That looks heavy though. Wouldn't the resulting knife feel like all handle with nothing attached to it?



tk empty your mailbox I cant send you a PM


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## Delbert Ealy

Mike,
It does happen, I have send more wood and steel into the trash than most of you will ever see.
There comes a point however when skill and confidence meet and you can do great work. I have had many projects where there was no possibility of backup. I made a blade for Mark at itsaburl, out of a piece of meteorite he sent me. I had never seen another piece like it(size shape type pattern) and I will probably never see another. There were no backups and no room to screw up. There is a point where you can't afford to be nervous, because you will sabotage yourself. Now maybe you are not quite there with your skill, and you need more practice. 
Think about this, I make gold/silver mokume, somtimes with several thousand $$$ worth of materials. I really can't afford to screw up, and I don't. 
(Oh and by the way I make damascus petty blades) 
Del


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## mr drinky

Lefty said:


> ...Somebody should make an offer....


 
I agree. Salvage it, tell people what size/type of knife it will fit and then offer it up for sale. Or you could buy your own petty to fit, but it looks way too nice to not give it a good home.

k.


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## kalaeb

mhenry said:


> I am wondering how much junk if any you guys are producing and what you estimate your sucess rate is. I would put mine at around 70%.
> Mike



I am probably pretty close to 70%. I get irritated easily so I usually end up working with crap until I get motivated to re-re-handle. From the looks of it that is not only 50.00 but quite a few hours too. Good luck in trying to make it work!


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## Marko Tsourkan

Lefty said:


> ...Somebody should make an offer....


 
I can offer to fix it, that is to make it smaller and to fix symetry 

Most of my handles are not salvageable, because they are made for a specific size knife. For example, height of a 'nipple' on my handles depends on the height of a machi on a knife, so it is not easy and sometimes is not possible to downsize if you have a size in mind that is appropriate for a particular knife. Handles without nipple or internal support pins or oversize tang cavity, could be downsized. 

M


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## oivind_dahle

How high is a "nipple"?

This high? Def a NOT SAFE FOR WORK PIC HERE!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/neotomnipplesvqqsnbpmr1.jpg/


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## Marko Tsourkan

oivind_dahle said:


> How high is a "nipple"?
> 
> This high? Def a NOT SAFE FOR WORK PIC HERE!
> 
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/neotomnipplesvqqsnbpmr1.jpg/


 
Dude, you will get yourself banned.


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## Lefty

That's just not right....


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## goodchef1

on any level!!!! :O


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## mhenry

Marko
That is a very cool offer and I really appreciate it. I have already started grinding it down. Looks like it will be fine I have had to take so much material off that alot of the dimensional issues are gone its pretty much a new start.

I do have a question about polishing metal spacers if you dont mind I will send you a PM 




Marko Tsourkan said:


> I can offer to fix it, that is to make it smaller and to fix symetry
> 
> Most of my handles are not salvageable, because they are made for a specific size knife. For example, height of a 'nipple' on my handles depends on the height of a machi on a knife, so it is not easy and sometimes is not possible to downsize if you have a size in mind that is appropriate for a particular knife. Handles without nipple or internal support pins or oversize tang cavity, could be downsized.
> 
> M


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## Marko Tsourkan

mhenry said:


> ...
> 
> I do have a question about polishing metal spacers if you don't mind I will send you a PM


 
Sure thing, though I don't do anything extra for polishing outside fine-sanding it (220, 320, 600, 1000, 1500) and then buffing with chromium oxide on 1800rpm buffer. I have had best results with real silver. 

I think it is important to do some sanding on a granite plate. It helps to remove metal and wood at the same rate (as opposed to sanding on a padded surface), but on fine grits I do sand on a padded surface, as it gives a nicer finish and material removal is not an issue.

M


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## mhenry

Marko, Thanks that answered my questions.
Mike






Marko Tsourkan said:


> Sure thing, though I don't do anything extra for polishing outside fine-sanding it (220, 320, 600, 1000, 1500) and then buffing with chromium oxide on 1800rpm buffer. I have had best results with real silver.
> 
> I think it is important to do some sanding on a granite plate. It helps to remove metal and wood at the same rate (as opposed to sanding on a padded surface), but on fine grits I do sand on a padded surface, as it gives a nicer finish and material removal is not an issue.
> 
> M


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## mhenry

You Guys wont beleive this. I got the handle shaped down to a really nice petty size and look what I did:cry: I hate Black Palm!!!!!

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0215.jpg

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0214.jpg


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## kalaeb

Man, I hate it when that happens. Sorry for your luck.


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## mhenry

Thanks, It is not so much bad luck, as being too heavy handed with the drill press.


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## mhenry

I am also working on this one. What do you guy's think of the multi-piece space spacers, too busy?
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0217.jpg


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## tk59

The more I look at that one, the more I like it. I think the spacers are so thin and close together, it really doesn't look wierd. It's like one fancy spacer.


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## kalaeb

I like that one a lot, well done.


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## apicius9

mhenry said:


> I am also working on this one. What do you guy's think of the multi-piece space spacers, too busy?
> http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0217.jpg


 
In general, I like it. In most cases I think even the nicest spacer can 'disappear' when it is between two very catchy pieces of wood. I think this is borderline in your handle but because it is a bit thicker overall, I am sure it will look great when finished.

Sorry about the palm piece. That stuff can be a bit brittle and rushing on the drill press is risky. Same thing happened to me recently. One customer asked me to make a handle in a very unusual design and he gave me the measures down to 1/16". When I finally had it rght, the ironwood ferrule cracked. I put on a new ferrule and resand it as carefully as possible without takingoff too much material. We'll see if I will get away with it...

Oh, and before I forget: really excellent work and great materials.

Stefan


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## Lefty

That sucks Mike! It was looking really good. If you have a band saw, you can likely salvage the handle portion, shape a new ferrule with the spacer attached to it and bring this one back again.
The new handle combo looks amazing to me! A little Rader-esque...very nice


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## Pensacola Tiger

I like that last one a lot. :wink:


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## Dave Martell

That sucks about the black palm. 

The next one up looks great though.


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## Eamon Burke

mhenry said:


> I am also working on this one. What do you guy's think of the multi-piece space spacers, too busy?
> http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0217.jpg


 
Love this one. Please post pics when its done!


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## Mike Davis

That multi piece handle is amazing! Can't wait to see it! I was unsure about using metal spacers, but it looks great!


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## mhenry

Lefty said:


> That sucks Mike! It was looking really good. If you have a band saw, you can likely salvage the handle portion, shape a new ferrule with the spacer attached to it and bring this one back again.
> The new handle combo looks amazing to me! A little Rader-esque...very nice



Ok Lefty, I was going to chunk this handle, until I read this. I thought I would give it a try, looks like it may have saved it! Thanks
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/mhenry5/IMG_0314.jpg


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## Lefty

Awesome! It looks perfect from here. 
I'm glad it worked out (and my suggestion saved you some materials!)


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## jmforge

It's always fun working with expensive natural materials, I once had a pricey block of ironwood burl that just so happened to have a HUGE void in it that went from about 1/8 of an inch under the surface than ran about an inch down the block. Of course, I didn't discover it until I had profiled the handle.


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## Dave Martell

******* said:


> It's always fun working with expensive natural materials, I once had a pricey block of ironwood burl that just so happened to have a HUGE void in it that went from about 1/8 of an inch under the surface than ran about an inch down the block. Of course, I didn't discover it until I had profiled the handle.




:nutskick:


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## jmforge

Precisely!!! It's bad enough when you screw something up yourself, but even worse when it arrives from the factory "pre-screwed":lol2:


Dave Martell said:


> :nutskick:


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## Pensacola Tiger

Mike,

Your mailbox for PM's is full.


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