# advice for a fancy knife



## icanhaschzbrgr (Jun 27, 2014)

My parents lives about a thousand miles away from me and we see each other once or twice a year. They came to my place few days ago and were impressed by my growing collection of knives and new handles. So they asked me to buy and rehandle a knife that they are going to present later to a very respected old woman. 

That woman is a very wealthy person and has everything that a person might ever needs. But they decided that handmade knife with a handmade handle would be a pretty special present. So I have time before September to buy a knife a complete rehandling. My knowledge about that woman are very limited, however I do know that she cook herself, so this knife is going to be used and abused like most knives on Russian kitchens. At least that's my assumption. I have no idea how it will be sharpened, but I could probably write down some advices about how to care for the knife and include it with the present. 

So I'm looking at shorter knife 150-180mm petty/guyto/santoku/funayuki in stainless and with damascus cladding. Western or WA handle. Upper budget limit would be somewhere around 400$ 

Ideally I'd grab something like this Mr.Itou knife





but those are sold out long ago.

Another interesting option is Yoshikane SLD petty or santoku









Is there anything else similar to the those above?


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## mkriggen (Jun 27, 2014)

Those Yoshikanes are outstanding. I have a nakiri and a kiritsuke/gyuto from the line and love them both. If you go that way you might want to contact the guys at EE, I think they put their own handles on the ones they sell so you might be able to get one without.

Be well,
Mikey


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jun 28, 2014)

Thanks Mikey, good to hear that I may save some funds on handle from EE!


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## ThEoRy (Jun 28, 2014)

Tanaka Ironwood is in that range.


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## tchan001 (Jun 28, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Ideally I'd grab something like this Mr.Itou knife
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you check the BST thread?
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/18735-Mr-Itou


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jun 28, 2014)

ThEoRy said:


> Tanaka Ironwood is in that range.


Yep, thanks Rick. That's another decent option!


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jun 28, 2014)

tchan001 said:


> Did you check the BST thread?
> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/18735-Mr-Itou


I saw that thread, but that's not what I'm looking for.


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## LKH9 (Jun 28, 2014)

Do not give a fine knife like this to an ordinary person, just get her a Coldsteel kitchen knife. These knives are not for everyone! Please don't buy one for her. You will regret for life if you see how the knife will end up.


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## James (Jun 28, 2014)

LKH9 said:


> Do not give a fine knife like this to an ordinary person, just get her a Coldsteel kitchen knife. These knives are not for everyone! Please don't buy one for her. You will regret for life if you see how the knife will end up.



+1. She may find more use out of a slightly thicker knife made of a softer tougher steel.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jun 28, 2014)

This woman has enough knives for any task in the kitchen, so there's no sense in buying "just another one". 

On the contrary, this knife should look and perform way better then any other knife she has ever used. 
I believe that's the only way that may guide her into learning about kitchen knives and proper care. And it may happen that she already knew how to deal with such stuff, as she's very knowledgeable person.


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## LKH9 (Jun 28, 2014)

> as she's very knowledgeable person.



I've seen many very knowledgeable people too, but none of them gives a crap about knife maintenance! :no:


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## mhpr262 (Jun 28, 2014)

LKH9 said:


> I've seen many very knowledgeable people too, but none of them gives a crap about knife maintenance! :no:



We knife aficionades are a rare breed indeed. It is too easy to forget when one spends so much time in forums with like-minded people.

A suggestion: She likely already has got good knives or can buy them herself. How about a really nice matched set of high quality waterstones instead? That is not something you can buy everywhere, not even in a first rate cooking supplies shop.


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## mkriggen (Jun 28, 2014)

mhpr262 said:


> How about a really nice matched set of high quality waterstones instead?



Oh yeah, that'd be nice, and you could give her a matching vacuum and iron to go with themunish:. Stick with your plan Anton. It doesn't matter what she does with it afterward, she'll recognize the effort that went into it and cherish it for years.

Be well,
Mikey


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## LKH9 (Jun 28, 2014)

Ya, just give her a good Japanese stone or a ColdSteel knife.

Seriously, traditional Japanese knives are going to get ruined 100% by untrained/uneducated users, you know how chippy they are, do you? Knowledgeable doesn't apply to knives, people have been taking it for granted for centuries. I don't care how knowledgeable you presume she is, but if she can't take care of her kitchen knives, she's just a typical ordinary person in my eyes.


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## daveb (Jun 28, 2014)

I think the man said he wanted to buy a nice knife, rehandle it himself and provide it to his parents to present as a gift to an esteemed friend?

Very laudable.

Perhaps one of the knives with an engraved chrysanthemum would fit the requirement? I don't remember which knife (or knives) this would be just remember coming across one that the 240 was engraved with a dragon, the 210 with the flower. Remember thinking that would be a nice gift for my mother. 

Good luck in your search.


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## Helleri (Jun 28, 2014)

@OP

Maybe include a two sided stone, some rods, oil, cloth, and a well fitted box (or scabbard with stand)? 

The thought here is if she does know how to properly care for her blades she will appreciate the accessories. And, if she doesn't, then she will have everything she needs (basically) to keep it in good condition. And, it becomes a matter of tangential learning (and no one can say you didn't provide everything needed with the gift to treat it properly, if she ends up destroying it).


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## panda (Jun 29, 2014)

cutting performance is not going to matter. just ask your mother what she thinks is the prettiest of some expensive knives. that will be the one to get.


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## Lizzardborn (Jun 29, 2014)

panda said:


> cutting performance is not going to matter. just ask your mother what she thinks is the prettiest of some expensive knives. that will be the one to get.



I think he should gift her a great cutter. On the off chance that she got someone close to her that knows about knives.

A year later someone telling her "This is expensive mediocrity" and "Why didn't you care for this beauty" will create a different reaction towards the gift givers.

Also the enlightened look of a person making for the first time a cut with something really sharp is well worth.


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## XooMG (Jun 29, 2014)

Consider one of the super-etched Saji blades as well, if you can find a dealer. They might have a bit more texture going through food but they look pretty sweet and have (imo) nice profiles.

http://knife-gallery.com/?pid=62313553 not sure where else to find them, but I'd be quite pleased if someone got me one of these.

And ignore the people who tell you to forgo a good knife as a gift. It's a gift and she can use it as a paint scraper if she wants, though in the spirit of being a good recipient she might take some interest in it and you can make yourself available as a convenient reference for knife care and use so she doesn't have to wade in misinformation.

I was going to give a gift of a nice knife not long ago, but discovered the recipient had no interest in knife care and was apparently talented at destroying knives (chopping on tile sometimes even). The gift obviously would not have been appreciated so I didn't bother.


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## LKH9 (Jun 29, 2014)

> Also the enlightened look of a person making for the first time a cut with something really sharp is well worth.



You don't need to spend over 400$ to buy something decently sharp to give to someone, any blades can be made into razors and cut things like butter, the only difference is the edge retention.



> And ignore the people who tell you to forgo a good knife as a gift. It's a gift and she can use it as a paint scraper if she wants, though in the spirit of being a good recipient she might take some interest in it and you can make yourself available as a convenient reference for knife care and use so she doesn't have to wade in misinformation.
> 
> I was going to give a gift of a nice knife not long ago, but discovered the recipient had no interest in knife care and was apparently talented at destroying knives (chopping on tile sometimes even). The gift obviously would not have been appreciated so I didn't bother.



What are you trying to tell here? 

The issue here is, don't give a premium hand-forged knife to an unknown person, it's 100% going to get ruined, and it also destroys the hard work of the craftsman who crafted the knife, even though you paid for it. It's a total disrespect to the artist. If the knife is a mass-produced stuff, even if it's over 1000$, then I won't give a **** about that. Every single premium Japanese knife is painstakingly crafted with blood and sweat, it has the craftsman's 'spirit' in it. Please respect that.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jun 29, 2014)

LKH9 said:


> The issue here is, don't give a premium hand-forged knife to an unknown person, it's 100% going to get ruined



I hear you LKH9. But I doesn't share your assumption about knife being 100% ruined. 

I've gifted several knives before, and so far non of them has been destroyed or even damaged. 
I'd tell you more: all the knives that I gifted are being well cared. Maybe because they look nice and perform way better then any dull cheap stainless steel, that people do try to be more careful. Maybe for some other reasons.

LKH9, again, I do hear you and understand the reasons behind your advice. Now it's your time to hear me and my reasons behind this decision.


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## XooMG (Jun 29, 2014)

LKH9 said:


> If the knife is a mass-produced stuff, even if it's over 1000$, then I won't give a **** about that. Every single premium Japanese knife is painstakingly crafted with blood and sweat, it has the craftsman's 'spirit' in it. Please respect that.


If my Shigefusa or Kato were less expensive or if I were more wealthy and a lot more shamelessly dramatic, I might break one in response. Instead, I'm just going to disagree. As a former craftsman, I do not care about whether another living craftsman is queasy about losing one of his or her precious babies to an undeserving owner. Whether the customer wants it as a safe queen or a daily valued tool or an improvised pry bar is their business, if I'm willing to sell my product through a vendor. That's all assuming the person the OP mentioned is undeserving and abusive, which you seem eager to presume for no other reason than she's not an apparent member of our little exclusive club of snobs. Perhaps she's more responsible than you and I are, and again it's not our business really.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jun 29, 2014)

mhpr262 said:


> A suggestion: She likely already has got good knives or can buy them herself. How about a really nice matched set of high quality waterstones instead? That is not something you can buy everywhere, not even in a first rate cooking supplies shop.



In Russia we have saying/stereotype that dull kitchen knives means there's no man in the family. Meaning it's the mens job to sharpen knives. So in our culture it would be a bit strange to gift sharpening supplies to woman, but I like your idea non the less.

I'm considering adding some combo stone along with knife. If I do my job well and could pack everything together, then it will be obvious that this particular knife should be sharpened on that stone, and not by some 3rd party sharpener with grinder. So her husband could use that stone to keep knife reasonably sharp. Once/if they became interested in learning more  I could help with pointing to good sources of information.

Thanks for idea!


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jun 29, 2014)

XooMG said:


> Consider one of the super-etched Saji blades as well, if you can find a dealer. They might have a bit more texture going through food but they look pretty sweet and have (imo) nice profiles.
> 
> http://knife-gallery.com/?pid=62313553 not sure where else to find them, but I'd be quite pleased if someone got me one of these.



Thanks for another option! 
Haven't heard about this knives before. 
That makes me wonder how many more decent knife makers are out there that are not being mentioned here on KKF


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## apathetic (Jun 29, 2014)

Don't forget that watanabe has some beautiful engravings on his knife, you might want to check that out


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## jimbob (Jun 29, 2014)

and if pretty is what your after, how about some of konosukes offerings? I remember seeing a damascus santoku with flowers on it, and some with mt fuji etc. Decent blade too.


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## panda (Jun 29, 2014)

could go with nenox, they're all eye candy.


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## jsjs103121 (Jun 29, 2014)

jimbob said:


> and if pretty is what your after, how about some of konosukes offerings? I remember seeing a damascus santoku with flowers on it, and some with mt fuji etc. Decent blade too.


Yep, I saw this too.




It is a really pretty looking knife.
The price for 180mm santoku is AUD 469.99 here.


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## seattle_lee (Jul 2, 2014)

LKH9 said:


> The issue here is, don't give a premium hand-forged knife to an unknown person, it's 100% going to get ruined,



This is a ridiculous claim. 

We were all such 'unknown persons' at one point or another. And now we are knife geeks.


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## mhpr262 (Jul 2, 2014)

seattle_lee said:


> This is a ridiculous claim.
> 
> We were all such 'unknown persons' at one point or another. And now we are knife geeks.



Except we like knives and were actively interested in learning how to use and maintain them. That's how we became better. 

99% of people don't give a sh!t. He isn't wrong.


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## daveb (Jul 2, 2014)

It's the gifting of the knife that's important, not the fate of the knife. In this scenario he's wrong.


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## seattle_lee (Jul 2, 2014)

mhpr262 said:


> Except we like knives and were actively interested in learning how to use and maintain them. That's how we became better.
> 
> 99% of people don't give a sh!t. He isn't wrong.



OP said "On the contrary, this knife should look and perform way better then any other knife she has ever used. I believe that's the only way that may guide her into learning about kitchen knives and proper care. And it may happen that she already knew how to deal with such stuff, as she's very knowledgeable person." 

You are welcome to be as clubby as you want to, but it's not a pretty sight.


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## Mrmnms (Jul 3, 2014)

I've watched you with some of your re handles. I wish I was on your birthday list. I suspect as a cooking enthusiast she will love what you give her. Maybe include a little history of the maker, the re handler and recommended care and sharpening.


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## rick alen (Jul 3, 2014)

jsjs103121 said:


> Yep, I saw this too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just how long do you imagine that pretty scene of Mt Fuji will remain pretty? Or is it etched in?


Rick


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jul 3, 2014)

An hour ago I got an email from JCK about new collection of Mr.Itou knives. After checking those knives I decided that Itou knives aren't suited for this occasion. I mean I'm going to make a custom handle, and Itou knives already has a pretty special handles, so it would be an act of vandalism from my side to rehandle it. 

Almost completely settled on Yoshikane petty. Just can't decide if I should go with EE, or save 100$ and get a similarly looking Richmond Damascus (which is also made by Yoshikane).


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## mkriggen (Jul 3, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Almost completely settled on Yoshikane petty. Just can't decide if I should go with EE, or save 100$ and get a similarly looking Richmond Damascus (which is also made by Yoshikane).



Same maker, not same steel. The one's sold by EE are SLD at around RC63, the richmond is ATS314 at RC61. Not familiar with ATS314 and couldn't find it on Gators site, but I really like the Yoshi SLD.

Be well,
Mikey


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## chefcomesback (Jul 3, 2014)

mkriggen said:


> Same maker, not same steel. The one's sold by EE are SLD at around RC63, the richmond is ATS314 at RC61. Not familiar with ATS314 and couldn't find it on Gators site, but I really like the Yoshi SLD.
> 
> Be well,
> Mikey



Mikey , I think it's ats 34 


Sent from my iPhone using Kitchen Knife Forum


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## mkriggen (Jul 3, 2014)

Yeah, probably, but the dum bass lists it as ats314.:dontknow:

Be well,
Mikey


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jul 22, 2014)

The parcel with knife arrived today, so here's what I got: a 150mm Richmond Damascus. I wasn't really comfortable ordering something under Richmond brand, but price was too good to resist.





Richmond logo is there, but you'd need to look hard to spot black logo on black damascus. And that's a good thing. 
Blade looks pretty in terms of F&F. OOTB edge was one of the most sharp OOTB edges I've seen. 





So far this knife looks pretty promising. I might post a small update later, when I try cutting some food with it and make a new handle.


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## LKH9 (Jul 22, 2014)

May I suggest you to carve the recipient's name into your custom handle, specially & exclusively for her so that she will really treat it like gold. This is one majestic knife.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jul 22, 2014)

LKH9 said:


> May I suggest you to carve the recipient's name into your custom handle, specially & exclusively for her so that she will really treat it like gold. This is one majestic knife.


Good idea. I'm considering taking handle to professional engraver so that I wouldn't screw it myself


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## LKH9 (Jul 22, 2014)

Or, even ask another professional to engrave on the soft iron as well! It's a sign that this item only belongs to one particular person.


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## daddy yo yo (Jul 22, 2014)

I think I would engrave her name onto the blade, but not the handle. Maybe have her initials in an inlay inspired by Mikey's honu mana handles with the turtle inlay...


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## Twistington (Jul 22, 2014)

The way I see it is that when you put together a knife for loved ones, if it's too "nice" the knife won't be used. And that's the point I feel a knife is a faliure, people tend to forget that a knife is a tool, a tool made for cutting things.

A tool should never be a hurdle, even if it looks fantastic... that's just a bonus.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jul 22, 2014)

Removed old handle (couldn't just knock it off due to TONS of epoxy inside, so had to destroy it) and put some older handle just for the sake of taking photo 





this time Richmond logo is better visible


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## daddy yo yo (Jul 23, 2014)

Looks good!


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## jigert (Jul 23, 2014)

Looks really good actually, well done!


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## Timthebeaver (Jul 23, 2014)

Incredible blade and handle, tragic logo.


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## rami_m (Jul 23, 2014)

What steel is it?


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jul 23, 2014)

rami_m said:


> What steel is it?


CKTG claims it was made out of ATS-314


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## rami_m (Jul 23, 2014)

Ah, I was wondering if you went stainless. How does it sharpen?


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jul 23, 2014)

rami_m said:


> Ah, I was wondering if you went stainless. How does it sharpen?


I've no idea. It came very sharp OOTB so I don't see any reason to sharpen it now. While making new handle for it, I'll probably use it few times to cut vegetables, and will decide from there if it needs to be sharpened before gifting. Anyway, my experience would be very limited and couldn't not justify how this steel really performs. My bet is that Yushikane wouldn't make crap even if you specifically ask them and pay for it


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## chefcomesback (Jul 23, 2014)

Anton , I believe you can get rid of the etched logo by sand paper or grinder and re etch and reveal the ground sided of the knife again by 400grit sandpaper.
Good thing is it is nearly not visible from the pictures


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## Ruso (Jul 23, 2014)

Very nice looking knife! Horrible logo  Mark better change it.


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## LKH9 (Jul 23, 2014)

Twistington said:


> The way I see it is that when you put together a knife for loved ones, if it's too "nice" the knife won't be used. And that's the point I feel a knife is a faliure, people tend to forget that a knife is a tool, a tool made for cutting things.
> 
> A tool should never be a hurdle, even if it looks fantastic... that's just a bonus.



If this is the case,.. well, it can be paired up with another cheap Japanese knife for actual use purpose. Human is weird, I'm one of those people who won't use a tool when it looks too majestic and precious. Same for those tameshigiri guys, who wants to use an authentic Katana for cutting hard stuff?


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## Timthebeaver (Jul 23, 2014)

+1, knives not used as tools = pointless.

Knowing Yoshikane, this thing will not need babying/be a fragile knife.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 23, 2014)

Don't think she will mind the Logo. Maybe get her a saya for it. It is true most people abuse their knives couple years ago eating at my nieces house, they had a German knife block set, very dull battered edges. I gave her a Togiharu thin profile Inox with a saya. Taught her how to sharpen it & knife care lecture. She cooks all the time for Husband & 3 kids, luvs the Togiharu and takes very good care of it. It only takes a couple minutes to teach knife care, most people are ignorant, all it takes is a change in mindset.


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## Mrmnms (Jul 23, 2014)

Anton, the handle is beautiful, looks great with the blade. I suspect she will be thrilled with what you gift her.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Sep 19, 2014)

Made a few handles specifically for this blade, so my parents could choose the one the like the most. Yesterday they made their choice. Picked of the older handles that was made for completely different blade, though it looks very similar to the previous pic that I posted. 




Hope new owner will enjoy using it.


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## Mrmnms (Sep 19, 2014)

Great knife with a beautiful beautiful handle. Awesome gift Anton. In case you were wondering, my birthday is June 23 .


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## mark76 (Sep 19, 2014)

Beautiful handle! I love it.


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## DaninMD (Sep 19, 2014)

very nice


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## Vesteroid (Sep 21, 2014)

That is incredible work. One of the nicest handles I have seen


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## XooMG (Sep 22, 2014)

Looks familiar. :whistling: I'm not 100% sold on the banksia material after seeing it in person, but you did a very nice job with it.


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