# Tojiro DP, Fujiwara FKH, or Richmond Artifex



## ian5527 (Oct 7, 2014)

Before I start I know the DP isn't carbon. But all 3 are pretty much the same price point. As a pro cook or someone who uses their knives a lot; which would you pick and why? Looking to pick up a gyuto (easy to sharpen/retention) I don't mind the extra care for carbon plus I like the idea of a patina. All input is appreciated!!! Thank you!


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 7, 2014)

The Artifex requires a lot of thinning of the grind before it is a passable performer. If you have access to a belt grinder, it's a possibility, otherwise give it a pass.

The FKH is a decent knife, but the SK4 steel it is made of is extremely reactive with foods like onions, and in my experience will turn them brown even after building a patina. The FKM series from Fujiwara is stainless and comparable to the FKH, but it's not among the knives you specified. (It's what I would choose if it was in the running.)

Of the three, the DP is the knife I would choose at that price point. Decent fit and finish, easy to maintain, and useable OOTB without any big modifications.

Rick


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## ian5527 (Oct 7, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> The Artifex requires a lot of thinning of the grind before it is a passable performer. If you have access to a belt grinder, it's a possibility, otherwise give it a pass.
> 
> The FKH is a decent knife, but the SK4 steel it is made of is extremely reactive with foods like onions, and in my experience will turn them brown even after building a patina. The FKM series from Fujiwara is stainless and comparable to the FKH, but it's not among the knives you specified. (It's what I would choose if it was in the running.)
> 
> ...



Thanks Rick,
Are there any significant drawbacks about the FKM? I'm looking at it on CKtG and it looks pretty good. Overall good value for the price


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## stereo.pete (Oct 7, 2014)

I started with the FKH a few years back and still use it from time to time. I never really had bad reactivity issues, but then again different strokes for different folks. The FKH line is my recommendation for everyone looking to test the waters (economical) of Japanese knives. I've handled Tojiro DP's and I was never really impressed, but then again I am a carbon junkie.

The SK4 steel is a good steel to learn how to sharpen on, it's not as easy as say a white #2 or 1095 carbon steel, but does sharpen up quite nicely. It won't hold it's edge as long as many other steels, but again it will take a really nice edge and the overall grind and profile of the FKH is pretty solid for the price point.


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## chinacats (Oct 7, 2014)

ian5527 said:


> Thanks Rick,
> Are there any significant drawbacks about the FKM? I'm looking at it on CKtG and it looks pretty good. Overall good value for the price



Only drawback is where you are shopping!
Cheers!


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## AllanP (Oct 7, 2014)

I think japanese Chef's knife have it for a tad cheaper with a flat 7 dollar shipping. but if you live in the US, it doesn't matter for you


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 7, 2014)

ian5527 said:


> Thanks Rick,
> Are there any significant drawbacks about the FKM? I'm looking at it on CKtG and it looks pretty good. Overall good value for the price



The FKM is not hardened to the same HRc as the FKH (58/59 vs 60), which probably isn't that significant, at least I haven't found it so. If you are that concerned about HRc or edge retention, I'd recommend increasing the budget to include the Kagayaki CarboNext or even the Hiromoto AS. 

If you are not living in the United States, buying from CKtG is not recommended, as shipping and import duties become significant, and you are much better off buying from Japanese Chefs Knife (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKMSeries.html#FKM). $7 USD shipping. 

Rick


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## Geo87 (Oct 7, 2014)

Ian: as mentioned above if you want a fkm get it from Koki at JCK he has a much better reputation. 

The 240 is $83 plus flat rate $7 shipping, bargain! 

I disagree about the fkh having reactivity issues. As long as you force a patina there shouldn't be any problem. I forced a patina on mine and cut up truck loads of onions without any discolouration. As long as you wipe the blade every few onions your fine. I'm finding iron cladding to be much more reactive than my fkh ever was ATM.


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## ian5527 (Oct 7, 2014)

chinacats said:


> Only drawback is where you are shopping!
> Cheers!



Haha good one:tease:


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## ian5527 (Oct 7, 2014)

Did you force the patina on yours or let it develop naturally? I live in new York so shipping is no problem.


Geo87 said:


> Ian: as mentioned above if you want a fkm get it from Koki at JCK he has a much better reputation.
> 
> The 240 is $83 plus flat rate $7 shipping, bargain!
> 
> I disagree about the fkh having reactivity issues. As long as you force a patina there shouldn't be any problem. I forced a patina on mine and cut up truck loads of onions without any discolouration. As long as you wipe the blade every few onions your fine. I'm finding iron cladding to be much more reactive than my fkh ever was ATM.


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## TurdMuffin (Oct 7, 2014)

I got my father the tojiro dp Santoku and it seems nice. The handle is kinda big and boxy. If you use a pinch grip the bolster makes it not very comfy because of its shape imo. If you have large hands and use a hammer grip you'll probably like it.


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## Geo87 (Oct 7, 2014)

ian5527 said:


> Did you force the patina on yours or let it develop naturally? I live in new York so shipping is no problem.



I forced the patina with a mustard/vinegar mixture, I also left it on there for quite a while so it was pretty solid.


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## labor of love (Oct 7, 2014)

I have a Fujiwara carbon suji that I use as a beater for work. If I could do it over again I wouldve picked up a tojiro easy. Fujiwara grind may not be as awful as the Artifex but it is pretty bad. Its also annoyingly reactive. Then again these are all dirt cheap knives so you shouldnt expect much no matter which choice you make.


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## ian5527 (Oct 7, 2014)

labor of love said:


> I have a Fujiwara carbon suji that I use as a beater for work. If I could do it over again I wouldve picked up a tojiro easy. Fujiwara grind may not be as awful as the Artifex but it is pretty bad. Its also annoyingly reactive. Then again these are all dirt cheap knives so you shouldnt expect much no matter which choice you make.



I'm not concerned all that much about reactivity. Concerns lie primarily in weight, edge retention and ease of use. This will be my first Japanese knife and i do plan on investing in stones and a good ceramic or diamond rod


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## chinacats (Oct 7, 2014)

ian5527 said:


> I'm not concerned all that much about reactivity. Concerns lie primarily in weight, edge retention and ease of use. This will be my first Japanese knife and i do plan on investing in stones and a good ceramic or diamond rod



Yikes on the diamond rod!


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## Geo87 (Oct 7, 2014)

ian5527 said:


> I'm not concerned all that much about reactivity. Concerns lie primarily in weight, edge retention and ease of use. This will be my first Japanese knife and i do plan on investing in stones and a good ceramic or diamond rod



Avoid the diamond rod... Bad idea in general. 

You also don't necessarily need a ceramic rod either although plenty of people use them. you can touch up on your finishing stone and it doesn't take that long at all less than 20 seconds. Your edges will also last longer this way.
Jon explains it here: 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLEBF55079F53216AB&v=FStkYx0AH1Y


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## ian5527 (Oct 7, 2014)

Geo87 said:


> Avoid the diamond rod... Bad idea in general.
> 
> You also don't necessarily need a ceramic rod either although plenty of people use them. you can touch up on your finishing stone and it doesn't take that long at all less than 20 seconds. Your edges will also last longer this way.
> Jon explains it here:
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLEBF55079F53216AB&v=FStkYx0AH1Y



Thank you for the advice!


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 8, 2014)

For a working knife that does not cost too much like the Tanaka Ginsan . High grind like you find on more expensive blades. Thin behind the edge where it counts. Core steel is quite good & is very easy to sharpen. Hrt62. A little rough around the edges easy fix. Because of the geometry of the blade it is a good performer for a few bucks more than those you are looking at.


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## labor of love (Oct 8, 2014)

keithsaltydog said:


> For a working knife that does not cost too much like the Tanaka Ginsan . High grind like you find on more expensive blades. Thin behind the edge where it counts. Core steel is quite good & is very easy to sharpen. Hrt62. A little rough around the edges easy fix. Because of the geometry of the blade it is a good performer for a few bucks more than those you are looking at.



Ive only used rehandled Tanaka Ginsans....are the stock handles really that bad? I wouldnt mind grabbing a tanaka petty...theyre silly cheap.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 8, 2014)

I think the stock handle is not bad at all as long as you are right handed. I don't mind D handles it is nice size, no ridges between ho wood & horn collar.


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## stereo.pete (Oct 8, 2014)

One of my friend's who has recently jumped into the Japanese knife pool picked up a Tanaka as one of his first. The handle is fine although it would definitely benefit from a nice hand sanding to smooth out to the texture, although some might enjoy the "grippy" feel.


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## ian5527 (Oct 8, 2014)

keithsaltydog said:


> For a working knife that does not cost too much like the Tanaka Ginsan . High grind like you find on more expensive blades. Thin behind the edge where it counts. Core steel is quite good & is very easy to sharpen. Hrt62. A little rough around the edges easy fix. Because of the geometry of the blade it is a good performer for a few bucks more than those you are looking at.



Thank you for the advice! I'll definitely check it out. I don't mind spending a few extra bucks as long as it's worth it. Setting a max budget of $100. I feel I can get a good performer (steel quality, f&f, weight, ootb sharpness, and relative ease of maintenance) for that much.


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## chinacats (Oct 8, 2014)

ian5527 said:


> Setting a max budget of $100. I feel I can get a good performer (steel quality, f&f, weight, ootb sharpness, and relative ease of maintenance) for that much.



Boy are you in for a surprise!


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 8, 2014)

OOTB sharpness is just OK with the Tanaka, but a short time on the stones gets really sharp. It is a good knife to learn sharpening on too since it is thin behind the edge and easy to raise a burr. Any decent knife you have to learn how to sharpen anyway. So you have to allow for a whetstone. 

F&F the spine and choil are a little rough, easy fix plenty info. on these forums how to do it. Relative ease of maintenance the Tanaka is very good.


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## ian5527 (Oct 11, 2014)

keithsaltydog said:


> I think the stock handle is not bad at all as long as you are right handed. I don't mind D handles it is nice size, no ridges between ho wood & horn collar.



Does JCK offer a left handed model?? Southpaw here


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