# Time for new stones - recommendations?



## agp (Nov 21, 2018)

Hi all, I've been using a King 1k/6k combo set for the past few years, but had lots of trouble sharpening my Yamashin white 1, but did great with my stainless steel knives and cleavers from China. I'm looking for recommendations on a set stone set up. I recently got some VG10 damascus knives, so hoping to get something that can sharpen those easily.

Any recommendations?


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## nevrknow (Nov 21, 2018)

Shapton. Pro or glass either one.

Kohetsu 800 and 2K. VERY good stones.


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## 2bApical? (Nov 21, 2018)

I am in the exact same situation. Recently got a VG-10 knife and it not getting sharp on what I have. Here is an excellent review of a stone made with a vitrification process. I'm wondering what other stone are made this way. Suzuki-ya stones. The 4000 is 80 Rockwell, 1200 is 60 Rockwell. https://fabulalignarius.wordpress.com/2015/01/08/found-the-ultimate-waterstone/


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## kevin (Nov 22, 2018)

Maybe get a rougher stone to get it started like the Naniwa professional 400


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## krx927 (Nov 22, 2018)

Naniwa professional 400 would work great. But you do not need to go so low. For me for non thinning purposes Naniwa professional is enough.

Great stones.


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## madelinez (Nov 22, 2018)

King Hyper 1000 (much faster than the standard 1000) or Shapton Pro 1000. Both are fast stones but the King is a little softer.


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## Matus (Nov 22, 2018)

Where are you located?


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## krx927 (Nov 22, 2018)

I wanted to say:
Naniwa professional 400 would work great. But you do not need to go so low. For me for non thinning purposes Naniwa professional *1000 *is enough.

Great stones.


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## agp (Nov 22, 2018)

Matus said:


> Where are you located?



Located in conus


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## agp (Nov 22, 2018)

krx927 said:


> I wanted to say:
> Naniwa professional 400 would work great. But you do not need to go so low. For me for non thinning purposes Naniwa professional *1000 *is enough.
> 
> Great stones.



How different is Naniwa 1k from King 1k? Can't imagine 1k being that different? Maybe I'm not applying enough pressure.


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## Grunt173 (Nov 22, 2018)

agp said:


> How different is Naniwa 1k from King 1k? Can't imagine 1k being that different? Maybe I'm not applying enough pressure.


If you want a way much better 1k then either the King 1k or the Chosera 1k get the Chosera 800.Between that and my Shapton Pro 1k that I bought some time ago,that's all I use.My King 1k/6k was my very first stone in the sharpening world of things and it is collecting dust.


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## banjo1071 (Nov 22, 2018)

I hear Maruka is a very good brand...


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## F-Flash (Nov 22, 2018)

If i would get new Stones:
I have chosera 400, its good (but i still dont like it). Iwould try JNS 300.
King Hyper 1k (prefer IT to chosera 1k)
Chosera 3k (Amazing Stone)

And If u need to go higher, (for gyutos theres really no need) JNS 6k 

And after that some natural...


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## HRC_64 (Nov 22, 2018)

The next generation of stones after King, think Hyper 1k, Cho 800, SP1k, etc.
(most of which have been noted already)


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## agp (Nov 22, 2018)

I plan to get a Chosera 400. Want one more, don't want a three piece set up. so 400+1k? or 400+2k? or 600+2k or 600 + 3k?


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## Matus (Nov 22, 2018)

I am not quite sure about the coarse stone - for my taste the Gesshin 400 dishes a bit too fast (grinds fast and but lovely finish though).

JNS300 is bit too slow (but thanks to relatively slow dishing good for more accurate work, also finishes finer than 300). I use JNS300 to check bevels on the knives I am making and on repair work on wide bevels. 

I recently got a Sakai Takauki 400 stone, but have not tested it sufficiently yet. It looks promising though.

Medium grit - the Gesshin 2000 is really great- really fast for 2k, nice feel & feedback, dishing on the slow side. 

I also have the Watanabe #1000 (== Shapton Pro 1000) - it is more of an 800 stone with the decent feedback and is very fast. - basically it negates the need for a 300-400 stone - at least on the edge. Going from 220 (I have Bester) to Shapton Pro 1k is no problem. If used on wide bevels than it may take a while to take out scratches with 4k+ stones.

Then there is Sigma Pro 1k - probably the fastest 1k stone, but the feedback are fingernails on a blackboard. It tends towards tearout on soft stainless steels. I will be getting one for purely knifemaking purposes.

Finisher - Gesshin 4000 is basically a finer version of the 2000 - gives a very nice toothy edge. A fast stone for 4k grit. 

My favourite synthetic finisher is however Gesshin Synthetic Natural. Not quite as fast as the 4k, but the edge is very well balanced - fine and toothy at the same time. It is currently my only synthetic finisher. I go to natural stones if I want to play with the edge properties more.

I have briefly used Shapton Pro 5k and Sakai Takayuki 4k - both are very nice stones (but also very different in feel). Shapton feels very smooth, while the ST has the more 'gritty' feel like Gesshin 2k and 4k.


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## F-Flash (Nov 22, 2018)

You can Jump from chosera 400 straight to chosera 3k (which will leave perfect edge for gyutos).


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## McMan (Nov 22, 2018)

Good comparison of three good 1000s:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...-1k-stones-jns-watanabe-and-king-hyper.37466/


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## Grunt173 (Nov 22, 2018)

Oh yes,plus one on the King Hyper 1k. If feel is important to you,I like my Hyper way more then my Shapton Pro 1k but both are very good and fast 1k stones.


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## inferno (Nov 22, 2018)

if you want some kind of kit i would suggest a diamond stone as the low grit one. Atoma 400 or DMT coarse. 
And if you want a coarse stone the shapton glass 500 double thick is good and fast. The best thing about it is that its almost as fast as the 220ies but wears much much slower. However a good 220 is actually faster than diamonds i have noticed.

then above that you can basically go 2 different routes, you either stop at a 3-4k or so. or lower like 2k. 
you could use a 500 and a 2k. 500 and 3k, or a 1k and a 2k. or 1k and 3/4k.

At work i have a dmt coarse, shapton pro 1k and a pro 2k. thats all i really need to sharpen any knife fast and efficient.

I gave my cousin a glass 500 and a glass 3k. those can handle anything. and its fast and dish resistant.

Usually I'd say the 1k stone is the base stone. so you would need a 1k and then something finer and then something coarser.
but if you have a 500 then you wont need a 1k. 

glass 500/3k very good combo, the 500 and shapton pro/glass 2k also good.
I could probably get by with only a coarse diamond stone and a 2-3k if I really wanted.
But why have only 2 stones when you can have 15??  wheres the fun in that?


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## labor of love (Nov 22, 2018)

Matus said:


> I am not quite sure about the coarse stone - for my taste the Gesshin 400 dishes a bit too fast (grinds fast and but lovely finish though).
> 
> JNS300 is bit too slow (but thanks to relatively slow dishing good for more accurate work, also finishes finer than 300). I use JNS300 to check bevels on the knives I am making and on repair work on wide bevels.
> 
> ...


The thing is the OP has vg10 knives. I’d recommend the gesh 400 for sharpening them. Or king 300, cerax 320 or something like that. I understand your dishing concerns though. 
Matus, I want you to try the gesh 1200 one day.


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## HRC_64 (Nov 22, 2018)

agp said:


> I plan to get a Chosera 400. Want one more, don't want a three piece set up. so 400+1k? or 400+2k? or 600+2k or 600 + 3k?



Classic kit is 400, 800, 3k

Once you get the mid-grits figured out, 
the cho 3k will do alot of work for you.

The shapton sequence is possibe
with SP1k, SP2K or SG 500, SG 2k
(or sp2k).

Could probably substitute Cho 400 
to Cho2k pretty easily if you don't
want to skip to 3k, but the 3k
is a useful stone to own.

(no matter how you get there,
can go also sp1k to cho3k, etc).


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## Ruso (Nov 22, 2018)

If you are in conus, get Gesshin 2K for your mid grit stone.


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## Matus (Nov 22, 2018)

I see no reason to start a regular sharpening of a VG-10 blade on a 400 stone. I have sharpened vg10 Kai Shun knives on a combination Bester 1k/6k stone (a surprisingly good stone, btw) several times and did not have any issues.


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## inferno (Nov 22, 2018)

I fully agree with matus. no need for anything coarser than a 1k for blades that are just dull or microscopically chipped (not major chipped).
And if you dont let your blades go totally dull you wont need anything coarser than a 2k. 

stones under 1k are used for fixing chips and other damages and to start sharpening blades that have been put through "pull through" sharpeners and "steels" for years. 

if you intend to fix friends and coworkers knives some low grit stones are needed.


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## krx927 (Nov 23, 2018)

agp said:


> How different is Naniwa 1k from King 1k? Can't imagine 1k being that different? Maybe I'm not applying enough pressure.



I do nt have experience with King...



Matus said:


> I see no reason to start a regular sharpening of a VG-10 blade on a 400 stone. I have sharpened vg10 Kai Shun knives on a combination Bester 1k/6k stone (a surprisingly good stone, btw) several times and did not have any issues.



Indeed 1000 is all you need for sharpening. 400 is needed only for thinning.


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## agp (Nov 23, 2018)

Okay. I guess I'll try sharpening with my King 1k more before buying anything new... Thanks!


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## agp (Jan 3, 2019)

Is this website good for stones?
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/...MItbmat_nR3wIVDJ6fCh173gcSEAkYASABEgIhW_D_BwE

Can't find the Chosera/Naniwa Pro 3k anywhere else.


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## labor of love (Jan 3, 2019)

agp said:


> Is this website good for stones?
> https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/...MItbmat_nR3wIVDJ6fCh173gcSEAkYASABEgIhW_D_BwE
> 
> Can't find the Chosera/Naniwa Pro 3k anywhere else.


Check amazon.


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## agp (Jan 3, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Check amazon.


 hidden in plain sight. Just got the supposed last Chosera 1k and one of the last five 3k!

Any recommendations for Amazon diamond flattening plates? I currently have one of those $25 dollar stone fixers with the deep grooves on the back. Not sure if that'll do, but it does not cover the entire surface of the sharpening stone. Or is JKI's $55 the way to go?


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## Knife2meatu (Jan 3, 2019)

agp said:


> hidden in plain sight. Just got the supposed last Chosera 1k and one of the last five 3k!
> 
> Any recommendations for Amazon diamond flattening plates? I currently have one of those $25 dollar stone fixers with the deep grooves on the back. Not sure if that'll do, but it does not cover the entire surface of the sharpening stone. Or is JKI's $55 the way to go?



If I were you, I'd cancel that 1k Cho and replace it with an 800 -- nicer combo with 800/3k, in my opinion.


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## Kai Wang (Jan 3, 2019)

agp said:


> Okay. I guess I'll try sharpening with my King 1k more before buying anything new... Thanks!



SHAPTON Is the best!! 
SHAPTON glass #500
Ceramic KUROMAKU # 2k and 8k


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## Kai Wang (Jan 3, 2019)

agp said:


> hidden in plain sight. Just got the supposed last Chosera 1k and one of the last five 3k!
> 
> Any recommendations for Amazon diamond flattening plates? I currently have one of those $25 dollar stone fixers with the deep grooves on the back. Not sure if that'll do, but it does not cover the entire surface of the sharpening stone. Or is JKI's $55 the way to go?



Don’t go for cheap flattening stone. Try to get atoma #140. 
Why!? 
Because I was there before. Wasted money on 2 cheap flattening stones!!


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## Panamapeet (Jan 3, 2019)

agp said:


> hidden in plain sight. Just got the supposed last Chosera 1k and one of the last five 3k!
> 
> Any recommendations for Amazon diamond flattening plates? I currently have one of those $25 dollar stone fixers with the deep grooves on the back. Not sure if that'll do, but it does not cover the entire surface of the sharpening stone. Or is JKI's $55 the way to go?


Don't waste money on flattening stones or whatever, and get an Atoma!


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## agp (Jan 3, 2019)

Anything more in the $50 or less range?


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## HRC_64 (Jan 3, 2019)

Atoma 400 is mid $60s on amazon w/ free shipping


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## agp (Jan 3, 2019)

What's the difference between Atomas of the same grit but different coarseness?


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## MartinT (Jan 3, 2019)

Global stone with the angler is pretty good


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## agp (Jan 3, 2019)

Also should Chosera be soaked before use?


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## HRC_64 (Jan 3, 2019)

agp said:


> Also should Chosera be soaked before use?



No, splash, wipe, splash and wait 90 seconds is fine


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## Nemo (Jan 3, 2019)

agp said:


> Also should Chosera be soaked before use?


No, soaking increases the risk of the stone cracking for magnesia based stones.

My choseras have never had any cracking issues. I have sealed all of mine. Not sure if this has protected them or not. Mine are also used exclusively as splash and go.

I do tend to leave a little of the mud on the stone when I flatten it before use.


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## Matus (Jan 3, 2019)

If you soak Chosera stones they will eventually fall apart. First had experience of a friend of mine.


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## Knife2meatu (Jan 3, 2019)

Nemo said:


> [...]My choseras have never had any cracking issues. I have sealed all of mine. Not sure if this has protected them or not. [...]



What did you use to seal them?


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## Nemo (Jan 3, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> What did you use to seal them?


Marine grade varnish. The one I can get here in Oz is probably not available elsevhere but I assume that most marine grade varnish would work. I used a spray can but you could use a paintbrush I guess.

Put painters tape on top surface. Spray the sides (and base if there is no plastic or wooden base to the stone). 2 coats does the job.


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## Knife2meatu (Jan 3, 2019)

Nemo said:


> Marine grade varnish. The one I can get here in Oz is probably not available elsevhere but I assume that most marine grade varnish would work. I used a spray can but you could use a paintbrush I guess.
> 
> Put painters tape on top surface. Spray the sides (and base if there is no plastic or wooden base to the stone). 2 coats does the job.



It's good to hear that the varnish doesn't degrade the stone. Considering the combined warnings which come with both Shapton and Naniwa magnesia-based stones, I've been putting off testing it to see if it mightn't damage them -- I think the warning expressly cautions against detergents, oils, hot water -- I fully expect that applying oil-based varnishes and solvents would be _strongly_ discouraged.


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## Nemo (Jan 4, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> It's good to hear that the varnish doesn't degrade the stone. Considering the combined warnings which come with both Shapton and Naniwa magnesia-based stones, I've been putting off testing it to see if it mightn't damage them -- I think the warning expressly cautions against detergents, oils, hot water -- I fully expect that applying oil-based varnishes and solvents would be _strongly_ discouraged.


Maybe you are correcet, IDK. All I can say is that I sealed mine this way and they have had nil issues with cracking. Not sure if the 2 facts are related or not. I don't believe that I am the only one to seal stones in this way.


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## Grunt173 (Jan 4, 2019)

So what if Marine grade varnish doesn't work. What do you have to lose? The Choseras will probably crack anyways. Mine all did and they were never soaked,strictly splash and go.


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## HRC_64 (Jan 4, 2019)

choseras are glued to a plastic base, so adhesives alone aren't a problem
assuming they are properly formulated.

the main issue is that magnesia binders don't like "solvents"
that includes prolonged exposure to water...


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## Ruso (Jan 5, 2019)

I just used Shapton pro 1K today and I was pleasantly surprised what a nice S&G stone it is. Especially if you consider its price!!!


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## labor of love (Jan 5, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> Atoma 400 is mid $60s on amazon w/ free shipping


Hell, even the atoma 140 is $68ish on Amazon. A lot cheaper than what I paid.


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## Grunt173 (Jan 6, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Hell, even the atoma 140 is $68ish on Amazon. A lot cheaper than what I paid.


Holy crap,me too.


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## agp (Jan 6, 2019)

Soo... Atoma 140 as flattening stone?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BN32EXY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Nemo (Jan 6, 2019)

agp said:


> Soo... Atoma 140 as flattening stone?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BN32EXY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


But the handled ones do make flattening a lot easier.


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## agp (Jan 6, 2019)

Guys what's the best flattening stone on Amazon for around/under $60?


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## Xenif (Jan 6, 2019)

agp said:


> Guys what's the best flattening stone on Amazon for around/under $60?


I think it has been mentioned enough ..... But for if for some reason you missed it .... GET AN ATOMA ~~~~ 140/400 both works fine as flattening stone


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## agp (Jan 6, 2019)

Xenif said:


> I think it has been mentioned enough ..... But for if for some reason you missed it .... GET AN ATOMA ~~~~ 140/400 both works fine as flattening stone


I was looking at that one but only found the one I linked previously. Is there one that comes with a base?


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