# Stones for western stainless



## Nemo (Jul 14, 2017)

Hi all, I have a set of Choseras (400,1k,3k) and a Junpaku which I quite like for my Japanese knives. The 400 is a bit lean for serious thinning but that is the subject of another thread.

I am beginning to realise that a much of the sharpening that I do is on (other people's) western stainless, often with a bit of shoulder easing or repair of pull thru abuse. For this I use the 400 and do a final deburr on 1k. It works fine but I wonder whether there is a better option for western stainless or at least if there is a cheaper option which is just as good or fast.

FWIW, I'm in Australia.

Thanks for your input.


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## K813zra (Jul 14, 2017)

Not cheaper nor more efficient but for western stainless or stainless in general I use Omura + Ikarashi. I don't sharpen for a ton of people, though. Just my close friends and family so their knives are kept in fairly good condition as I see to them often enough. Honestly, for years I used a Norton India stone and it worked well enough.


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## DanDan (Jul 15, 2017)

Aw shucks, I have a similar problem of looking for a coarse stone for pesky stainless stuff (but something I can still use with carbon). I did a lot of forum searching and just settled on either a Naniwa super or pro 400 and now you've made me second guess myself! :scratchhead:

I'll follow this to see what's recommended now compared to all the old threads.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 15, 2017)

I like to use JNS 300, or even better, omura for cheap stainless. For aeb-l, a muddy aoto if the intention is to leave a toothy edge.


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## 42537703 (Jul 15, 2017)

How about Shapton glass 320 or atoma?


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## Nemo (Jul 15, 2017)

DanDan said:


> Aw shucks, I have a similar problem of looking for a coarse stone for pesky stainless stuff (but something I can still use with carbon). I did a lot of forum searching and just settled on either a Naniwa super or pro 400 and now you've made me second guess myself! :scratchhead:
> 
> I'll follow this to see what's recommended now compared to all the old threads.



Well the Chosera 400 (?same as pro) works fine. I was really just asking if there's anything better out there. I guess it almost looks as though I'm looking for an excuse to buy a new stone :whistling:


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## Nemo (Jul 15, 2017)

42537703 said:


> How about Shapton glass 320 or atoma?



Do you mean Atoma 400? Is there any issue with the soft satinless pulling diamonds out?

Do the shapton glass perform better in soft stainless? I thought that they were ideal for harder steels.


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## Nemo (Jul 15, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I like to use JNS 300, or even better, omura for cheap stainless. For aeb-l, a muddy aoto if the intention is to leave a toothy edge.



I think JNS 300 and omura are out of stock. Good idea on aoto. Only one aebl knife at the moment though.


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## JaVa (Jul 15, 2017)

The Sigma Select II could maybe work? 

My 1200 and 3000 are super fast and work great with all SS. I like them a lot and that makes me interested in the 240 and 400 too. They also have a quite friendly price tag. I'll probably buy those at some point, just don't need them right now. 

If anyone has some experience with them I'd love hear about them.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 15, 2017)

Nemo said:


> I think JNS 300 and omura are out of stock. Good idea on aoto. Only one aebl knife at the moment though.



You can find omura at Watanabe-san and Yamashita-san:

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone8.htm

http://www.japan-tool.com/zc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43_3

Another coarse stone that could fit the bill (never tried it yet, though) is Sasaguchi-do.


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## K813zra (Jul 15, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> You can find omura at Watanabe-san and Yamashita-san:
> 
> http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone8.htm
> 
> ...



Sasaguchi is on my list as well but I have been happy enough with my Omura that I have not tried anything else quite that coarse. I did just order the Iyodo that Watanabe just got in.

Anyway, I too think Omura would be a good fit here. I love mine for stainless, really I do.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 15, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Sasaguchi is on my list as well but I have been happy enough with my Omura that I have not tried anything else quite that coarse. I did just order the Iydo that Watanabe just got in.
> 
> Anyway, I too think Omura would be a good fit here. I love mine for stainless, really I do.



Nice! I wonder how your Iyo-do compares to the one i've got from Asteger last year. I'm not sure, but i think mine is this one (maybe Asteger will chime in and correct me if i'm wrong): http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/vintage-iyoto/
Let us know how do you like yours!


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## K813zra (Jul 15, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> Nice! I wonder how your Iyo-do compares to the one i've got from Asteger last year. I'm not sure, but i think mine is this one (maybe Asteger will chime in and correct me if i'm wrong): http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/vintage-iyoto/
> Let us know how do you like yours!



Will do!


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## DanDan (Jul 15, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Well the Chosera 400 (?same as pro) works fine. I was really just asking if there's anything better out there. I guess it almost looks as though I'm looking for an excuse to buy a new stone :whistling:



Yeah they're the same. Well if there's something better out there I'll regret my choice! I'm not sure whether this is good advice, but the Sigma power #120 from toolsfromjapan fits the "cheaper" requirement. I just dug up a pretty recent thread on it here. 

The JNS 300 did consistently come up in my searches though, shame it's out of stock. 



JaVa said:


> The Sigma Select II could maybe work?
> 
> My 1200 and 3000 are super fast and work great with all SS. I like them a lot and that makes me interested in the 240 and 400 too. They also have a quite friendly price tag. I'll probably buy those at some point, just don't need them right now.
> 
> If anyone has some experience with them I'd love hear about them.



This was recommended in a thread I made and it looks really fitting. I can get the 240 locally but the 400 I would have to order in from toolsfromjapan or elsewhere (is there anywhere else that stocks it at a good price?). It's tempting to go grab the 240, but I don't have a medium stone lower than 1000 so I'm unsure about jumping from 240 to deburring on 1000. I'd also like to find out more info about them, there's not much out there.


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## JaVa (Jul 15, 2017)

Fine-tools.com has the Sigma Select II line in stock, but it's in Germany so I don't know if that helps?


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## 42537703 (Jul 16, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Do you mean Atoma 400? Is there any issue with the soft satinless pulling diamonds out?
> 
> Do the shapton glass perform better in soft stainless? I thought that they were ideal for harder steels.



I have never heard the diamond being pulled off from the plate. Atoma 140 would be a better option since you already have something in 400 range. It is more aggressive than atoma 400. 

Shapton is very good for alloyed tool steel like A2. So It should handle softer stainless petty well.


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## 42537703 (Jul 16, 2017)

I have a JNS 300. It does cut fast, but it is a very muddy stone. In my opinion, it more for Japanese single or wide bevel knives with kasumi finish.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 17, 2017)

42537703 said:


> I have a JNS 300. It does cut fast, but it is a very muddy stone. In my opinion, it more for Japanese single or wide bevel knives with kasumi finish.



I use it all the time to sharpen cheap stainless and it works fine. It seems that the omura leave a better edge retention, but that might be a false impression.


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## panda (Jul 17, 2017)

oil stones are best for cheap stainless, much faster than waterstones.


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## Nemo (Jul 17, 2017)

panda said:


> oil stones are best for cheap stainless, much faster than waterstones.



Do you use them with oil, water or dry?

Are these like the Norton combo stones that one might find at the hardware store?


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## K813zra (Jul 17, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Do you use them with oil, water or dry?
> 
> Are these like the Norton combo stones that one might find at the hardware store?



I used an IB8 Norton for years and it worked well. Those cheap stones from the dollar markets do actually work. I use them on cheap tools and the like. But Norton oil stones are cheap enough that I would get that. I ran mine through the dishwasher a few times and used it with water rather than oil. I'm not suggesting that you should do the same, just saying what I did.


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## Khorax (Jul 20, 2017)

DanDan said:


> It's tempting to go grab the 240, but I don't have a medium stone lower than 1000 so I'm unsure about jumping from 240 to deburring on 1000.



I'm no sharpening pro but I use a 240 grit Naniwa Traditional (the cheapest one, it's below Super-stone and professional) and then go to a traditional 1000. The jump from 240 to 1000 works extremely well. And I got a professional 3000 to finish, I heard that you don't get much from german knives by taking them above 3000.

I also do lots of sharpening for friends who have horribly blunted/rounded/chipped stainless. My mindset is that it's going to eat up a lot of your stone, whichever one you use... so I got a naniwa traditional 240 to work fast for cheap. Once it gets worn down completely I will just get another. They work very well.


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## DanDan (Jul 21, 2017)

Khorax said:


> I'm no sharpening pro but I use a 240 grit Naniwa Traditional (the cheapest one, it's below Super-stone and professional) and then go to a traditional 1000. The jump from 240 to 1000 works extremely well. And I got a professional 3000 to finish, I heard that you don't get much from german knives by taking them above 3000.
> 
> I also do lots of sharpening for friends who have horribly blunted/rounded/chipped stainless. My mindset is that it's going to eat up a lot of your stone, whichever one you use... so I got a naniwa traditional 240 to work fast for cheap. Once it gets worn down completely I will just get another. They work very well.



That's a good point, coarse stones get worn down quickly anyway, I've decided not to drop the money on a Sigma and go more budget. I'm not so worried about jumping grits anymore. More that I preferred a splash and go and I was worried that 220-320 might be too low grit for my needs right now. Although I do have some other stainless knives that need new edges. I could get a Norton 220 locally cheaper than shipping in a Naniwa 220, but I can't find much on it other than bad impressions. Or I could get the Suehiro New Cerax 320/800 and kill two birds with one stone... technically. I'm still undecided as there are lots of options.


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## galvaude (Jul 21, 2017)

Khorax said:


> I'm no sharpening pro but I use a 240 grit Naniwa Traditional (the cheapest one, it's below Super-stone and professional) and then go to a traditional 1000. The jump from 240 to 1000 works extremely well. And I got a professional 3000 to finish, I heard that you don't get much from german knives by taking them above 3000.
> 
> I also do lots of sharpening for friends who have horribly blunted/rounded/chipped stainless. My mindset is that it's going to eat up a lot of your stone, whichever one you use... so I got a naniwa traditional 240 to work fast for cheap. Once it gets worn down completely I will just get another. They work very well.



The Naniwa Tradtional line is actually pretty good. They have 2 220 grit stone one is alox (pink) and the other is SiC (green). Their whole is good and I would not say they are under the super stone. They also have 2 type of 1000 grit, one is clay binder and the other vitreous. Pretty good and diverse line up.


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## Khorax (Jul 21, 2017)

galvaude said:


> The Naniwa Tradtional line is actually pretty good. They have 2 220 grit stone one is alox (pink) and the other is SiC (green). Their whole is good and I would not say they are under the super stone. They also have 2 type of 1000 grit, one is clay binder and the other vitreous. Pretty good and diverse line up.



I had no idea they had 2 types in the traditional?? Can anyone explain what the pro/cons are of clay vs vitreous binders on synthetic stones?

And yeah my mistake I was saying 240 grit it is indeed 220 for the traditional.


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