# R2 and SG-2 steel



## cclin

I read a lot of posts on KKF regarding R2 steel and lots of people like R2 but don't really know what R2 steel is made of. many members believe R2 is the best steel they've used and think R2 steel is better than SG-2 steel. I want to share my R2 knife shopping experience.
As I started shopping/research for a R2 knife few months ago, During my research, I found Takamura gyuto was listed as R2 steel in the Japan/European market, but listed as a SG2 steel in the US market.So, I e-mail some Japan knife vender regarding my R2/SG2 question, the replies were not definite and they thinks R2 and SG2 are very similar steel. moreover, A friend of my asked Mr. Itou the same question for me at Knife Show in Seki City. Mr. Itou confirm R2/SG2 steels are the same, but his R2 knife is better than Shun's sg2 knives because his hand hammer forging & heat treated process!
I also e-mailed Koki about the same issue and he in turn asked some knife maker and steel manufacturers for me. this is reply e-mail below for further reference. 

[I*]"Dear Charles 

Thank you very much for your new inquiry and interest.

You are currently interested in R-2 and SG-2 steel kitchen knives.

R-2 Powdered High Speed Tool Steel Material is made by one of most famous and big steel company "Kobelco". "Kobelco steel company" makes this steel and supply this steel to market. 

We also heard "Kobelco Steel Company" also supply R-2 Steel to the another steel company "Takefu Steel Company". And "Takefu Steel company" supply that steel under different name "SG-2 (Super Gold #2)" to the knife makers. 

It seem both steels are same, but has different name because of above.

If you will have any questions, please let us know and help.

Thank you very much again for your new inquiry and interest.

Best Regards

Koki Iwahara
JapaneseChefsKnife.Com"*[/I]


in conclusion, I think R2 and SG-2 are same steel! I hope this will help


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## sachem allison

well, there you go.


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## Dusty

That explains a lot, I was looking at the differences between two blazen knives - ryusen and takamura, using sg2 and r2 respectively, I'm not 100% sure but I think that they were just badged differently for different markets.


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## Squilliam

In Gators' steel analyzer graph over at zknives, the two steels look quite different, most notably with R2 being 17% - 19% tungsten, and SG-2 being tungsten free.


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## El Pescador

Not buying it.

We do know that SG2 is powdered VG10. R2 was a supposedly a proprietary blend developed by Mr Itou with Kobe Steel with a composition more in line with Cowry X or ZDP189. In my research I found a post that claims R2 has a good amount of Tungsten, while we know that SG2 has none. I know that Tanaka replaced r2 with SG2 in his high end knives. If there isn't a difference in steel, why claim a change at all? 

I'd like to hear from someone who has used both a Tanaka R2 and a SG2 knife.


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## EdipisReks

El Pescador said:


> We do know that SG2 is powdered VG10.



do we?


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## El Pescador

here is a good thread from the other board regarding this discussion:

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/861586/

In the thread Gator also states that he believe the composition of the two steels to be different.


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## EdipisReks

vg-10 and sg-2 seem fairly different.


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## El Pescador

EdipisReks said:


> vg-10 and sg-2 seem fairly different.



Very different. I stand corrected.


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## EdipisReks

the R2 steels certainly seem to be in the same hardness range as SG-2, assuming the available information is correct.


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## ajhuff

I'm always amazed at how people throw out chemical compositions with no references yet it's taken as fact. I take all the above with a grain of salt, kosher, big grains.

-AJ


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## cclin

this is a article I find-
"Each Uzushio knife comes in a wooden presentation gift box worthy of a knife of this quality. The Uzushio handles are solid snakewood. We special order our Uzushio knives with the handles a bit thicker than standard. We have found that many Western buyers find the standard handles on Japanese knives to be a bit too thin. The handles on our Uzushio knives should offer greater comfort for people with larger hands, while still feeling fine for people with small hands. *The Hagane (core) of the Uzushio knives is SG-2 ( also called R2) powder metal*, clad by 32 layers of nickel stainless steel with a Suminagashi pattern. These are heirloom quality knives that will one day be treasured family heirlooms."


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## EdipisReks

ajhuff said:


> I'm always amazed at how people throw out chemical compositions with no references yet it's taken as fact. I take all the above with a grain of salt, kosher, big grains.
> 
> -AJ



i trust gator.


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## Zwiefel

ajhuff said:


> I take all the above with a grain of salt, kosher, big grains.
> -AJ



I guess that means the truth is chippy?


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## El Pescador

still, a think a composition chart of the two steels would help.


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## EdipisReks

El Pescador said:


> here is a sg2/r2 comparison from zknives:
> http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=r2,+sg2&sz=2&gm=0&hrn=1



is Acero R2 the same steel? i don't see Kobe R2 data on that chart, only Acero R2 and SG2. gator doesn't appear to have data for Kobe R2.

[edited to fix a typo that reversed what i was trying say]


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## EdipisReks

interesting how this Akifusa is listed as SG2 and R2.


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## Crothcipt

To me it is looking like one of the manufactures is saying that they are the same. Creating a misrepresentation between the two steels.


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## ajhuff

cclin said:


> I read a lot of posts on KKF regarding R2 steel and lots of people like R2 but don't really know what R2 steel is made of. many members believe R2 is the best steel they've used and think R2 steel is better than SG-2 steel. I want to share my R2 knife shopping experience.
> As I started shopping/research for a R2 knife few months ago, During my research, I found Takamura gyuto was listed as R2 steel in the Japan/European market, but listed as a SG2 steel in the US market.So, I e-mail some Japan knife vender regarding my R2/SG2 question, the replies were not definite and they thinks R2 and SG2 are very similar steel. moreover, A friend of my asked Mr. Itou the same question for me at Knife Show in Seki City. Mr. Itou confirm R2/SG2 steels are the same, but his R2 knife is better than Shun's sg2 knives because his hand hammer forging & heat treated process!
> I also e-mailed Koki about the same issue and he in turn asked some knife maker and steel manufacturers for me. this is reply e-mail below for further reference.
> 
> [I*]"Dear Charles
> 
> Thank you very much for your new inquiry and interest.
> 
> You are currently interested in R-2 and SG-2 steel kitchen knives.
> 
> R-2 Powdered High Speed Tool Steel Material is made by one of most famous and big steel company "Kobelco". "Kobelco steel company" makes this steel and supply this steel to market.
> 
> We also heard "Kobelco Steel Company" also supply R-2 Steel to the another steel company "Takefu Steel Company". And "Takefu Steel company" supply that steel under different name "SG-2 (Super Gold #2)" to the knife makers.
> 
> It seem both steels are same, but has different name because of above.
> 
> If you will have any questions, please let us know and help.
> 
> Thank you very much again for your new inquiry and interest.
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Koki Iwahara
> JapaneseChefsKnife.Com"*[/I]
> 
> 
> in conclusion, I think R2 and SG-2 are same steel! I hope this will help



It does seem very plausible given Kobe Steel is a steel producer and Takefu Steel is a steel consumer.

-AJ


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## ThEoRy

I've asked Tanaka San regarding the difference between the two. If he responds I will relay the message.


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## Squilliam

El Pescador said:


> still, a think a composition chart of the two steels would help.



Here's the chart from zknives...


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## SpikeC

Ya, those look really ---similar?


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## ThEoRy

Shigeki responded to my question, here is his response. 

Hi there 
"Super Gold 2", "R2" is the official name of the nickname among knife enthusiasts. 
Although different finish, both exactly the same thing.


So there's his take on it.


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## Hattorichop

ThEoRy said:


> I've asked Tanaka San regarding the difference between the two. If he responds I will relay the message.



I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a reply from Tanaka San.....may he rest in peace and his memory live on in the outstanding product he produced.


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## Mingooch

I know a good heat treatment makes a HUGE diff, but the R2 I have, I love and isnt chippy. The SG2, has been pretty chippy when I have used it. Love me some Itou HT.


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## EdipisReks

Squilliam said:


> Here's the chart from zknives...



The Kobe R2 data isn't represented (see all the zeroes and lack of grey bars?) and the Acero R2 isn't the same steel.


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## EdipisReks

Hattorichop said:


> I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a reply from Tanaka San.....may he rest in peace and his memory live on in the outstanding product he produced.



more than one Tanaka San.


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## Hattorichop

EdipisReks said:


> more than one Tanaka San.



Not that uses R2 for knife making.


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## ThEoRy

Shigeki is the son of Kazayuki and launched his own Shigeki brand of knives back in 2005. I have 5 Tanaka knives, 3 of which are r2, 1 made by Kazayuki and two by Shigeki . If you read above, I have posted his response. He actually replied quite quickly. :thumbsup:


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## ajhuff

EdipisReks said:


> The Kobe R2 data isn't represented (see all the zeroes and lack of grey bars?) and the Acero R2 isn't the same steel.



Seems like a key is to nail down who makes R2. It appears to be a Kobe product. It is not a GSB-Acero product from what I can tell as that company either folded or was sold in 2006. It's possible it is made by Gerdau who I think bought Acero, but they don't list PM steel as a capability.

-AJ


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## WiscoNole

I've been praising SG-2 ever since I got a Shun Elite back in culinary school. :lol2:


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## Knifefan

SG2 and VG10 (like VG1, VG5 etc) are steel names created by Takefu. As Takefu doesn't produce steel, but only laminates or trades them, the steel may be traded by the steel producer under another name. For some steel like VG10 which is produced by Fujikoshi, Takefu seem to have the right for exclusive use in knives. Could be different with SG2 though, so that the statement made by Koki could be correct.


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## lgross

Check out the following charts at zknives:

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=r2,+sg2&sz=2&gm=0&hrn=1

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=SRS-15,SG2

The first has Kobelco Steel R2 versus GSB Acero R2

The second had Takefu SG2 versus SRS-15.

If you compare Kobelco Steel R2 with Takefu SG2, you'll see they're exactly the same.

Besides, if you scroll over R2* beneath the chart at the first link, you'll see it clearly says Kobelco Steel R2 and Takefu SG2 are the same. The difference is makers who use Kobelco Steel R2 tend to forge and heat treat their knives. SG2 knives tend to be stamped.

Under the second link, if you scroll over SG2*, it says Takefu SG2 is used by Shun and Fallkniven. Takamura and Itou use Kobelco Steel R2.

So, are R2 and SG2 the same steel? It depends. If we're talking about Kobelco R2, then, yes, they are the same. If we're talking about GSB Acero R2, then, no, they're not the same.

Also, if we're talking about Kobelco R2 and Takefu SG2, in deciding on which steel, then, what seems to be important is whether or not the maker forges and heat treats the knife, or uses stamped steel.

I hope that helps.

Although, I'm not sure anyone cares at this late date.


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