# In defense of the electric hob



## rickbern (Aug 30, 2021)

Cooked on one of those coil jobs for 21 years, I never thought it was all that bad.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/food/2021/08/30/electric-stovetop-cooking-gas-cooktop/


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## btbyrd (Aug 30, 2021)

Wrong.


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## coxhaus (Aug 30, 2021)

I cooked on a coil electric stove for about 14 years in my first house as we had no gas to the house. I never would go back. I love gas.
I grew up around gas stoves.

I have a bad habit of turning the burner too high at first from my cooking on my electric stove. It took forever for my electric coils to heat up. I am trying to do better but I still have my moments.


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## superworrier (Aug 30, 2021)

Although still inferior to gas and induction, one wonders if the bad reputation is due to wiring not allowing high power outputs. My electric in a newish building gets much hotter than any gas cooktop I’ve used before. Although it still takes 3 minutes to heat up.


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## ian (Aug 30, 2021)

The electric glass top at my old place was more powerful than my current gas stove. Kinda miss it. Could get some stupid hot temps once it preheated. Better heat distribution over the burner, no hot spots, super even on low heat, no crazy heat loss into the air, no searing hot pan handles, stupid easy to clean. Couldn't toast things over an open flame, couldn't use a wok, had to learn to preheat the pans, and had to move them off the burner if I wanted to kill the heat, but otherwise it was better.


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## rickbern (Aug 30, 2021)

Eh, it’s like any other constraint, you change technique to get over equipment limitations. The only limitation I never could get past was a dull knife, sucked all the joy outta cooking.

That’s why I love all you guys; even if you just lurk here it’s impossible to have a dull knife!


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## superworrier (Aug 30, 2021)

ian said:


> The electric glass top at my old place was more powerful than my current gas stove. Kinda miss it. Could get some stupid hot temps once it preheated. Better heat distribution over the burner, no hot spots, super even on low heat, no crazy heat loss into the air, no searing hot pan handles, stupid easy to clean. Couldn't toast things over an open flame, couldn't use a wok, and had to learn to preheat the pans, but otherwise it was better.


This is me right now. I found a workable wok solution. It's a knockoff of the hexclad (60 vs 150, but probably literally from the same factory). Basically it works good enough and is thick enough to not warp. Nonstick is essential since the sides cannot get hot.


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## ian (Aug 30, 2021)

Yea, it was workable for me to just do stir fries in a 12'' cast iron pan, but ngl the current 14'' wok is so much better than that was.


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## rickbern (Aug 30, 2021)

ian said:


> The electric glass top at my old place was more powerful than my current gas stove. Kinda miss it. Could get some stupid hot temps once it preheated. Better heat distribution over the burner, no hot spots, super even on low heat, no crazy heat loss into the air, no searing hot pan handles, stupid easy to clean. Couldn't toast things over an open flame, couldn't use a wok, and had to learn to preheat the pans, but otherwise it was better.


I agree, being able to use a wok is the single best thing about gas. Copper and carbon steel too. On electric everything was a disk bottom or cast iron


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## rickbern (Aug 30, 2021)

superworrier said:


> This is me right now. I found a workable wok solution. It's a knockoff of the hexclad (60 vs 150, but probably literally from the same factory). Basically it works good enough and is thick enough to not warp. Nonstick is essential since the sides cannot get hot.


Superworrier, this article is my gift to you; one less thing to worry about!


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## superworrier (Aug 31, 2021)

rickbern said:


> Superworrier, this article is my gift to you; one less thing to worry about!


Looks like you’re missing something


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## Justinv (Aug 31, 2021)

Coil electric has its merits as if can get hot. The smoothtop electric is infuriating as it can’t cool down. They are common in vacation rentals i visit and I’m always apalled at how poorly they perform. I use gas at home. I use portable induction. I use portable butane. All fine. But I just have to say no to smoothtop electric. No ability to lower temperature.


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## superworrier (Aug 31, 2021)

Justinv said:


> Coil electric has its merits as if can get hot. The smoothtop electric is infuriating as it can’t cool down. They are common in vacation rentals i visit and I’m always apalled at how poorly they perform. I use gas at home. I use portable induction. I use portable butane. All fine. But I just have to say no to smoothtop electric. No ability to lower temperature.


I just slip it off the hot part. Cools faster than being on air


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## sansho (Aug 31, 2021)

yup, they're fine.
i agree. compared to dull knife, coil job is really not an issue.
love this 'coil job' expression, btw.

other things are better, though. induction or open-burner gas in particular.

my recent rant on the subject of cooktop technologies:






High end frying pan recommendation


it's just really hard for me to believe that there is a sane use for cast iron for which a stargazer, griswold, aus-ion etc. is not more than adequate. Ive cooked two ribeyes at once in the 12"er and the crust certainly did not suggest there was inadequate thermal mass despite dropping two...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## sansho (Aug 31, 2021)

superworrier said:


> Although still inferior to gas and induction, one wonders if the bad reputation is due to wiring not allowing high power outputs. My electric in a newish building gets much hotter than any gas cooktop I’ve used before. Although it still takes 3 minutes to heat up.



i kind of don't think this is the case.

if you pull enough current through undersized wiring to experience a voltage drop big enough to cause poor performance, then you're either tripping the breaker or the breaker is oversized (illegal and dangerous -- big time fire hazard).

it's more likely that your electric cooktop in your newish building is just a newer and/or higher-end appliance.


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## Michi (Aug 31, 2021)

I had an electric coil cooktop for the best part of ten years. It wasn't great, but it worked. And I still managed to cook nice meals on it. Part of it is to adjust to the characteristics of the cooktop. Knowing how it behaves and anticipating what change will be needed is half the battle.

When I moved house and could design my own kitchen, I opted for one of those glass top electric cooktops from Miele. That was mainly because there was no gas supply in the street I moved to, and because I was keen on having a cooktop that was easy to clean. (The previous open coil cook top annoyed the hell out of me because it was hard to clean, as were various gas stoves I'd used in the past.)

The electric cooktop works well and it is fast (for an electric cooktop, that is). It comes up to full heat very quickly (< 5 seconds), no problem. But if I need to lower the heat quickly, the only option is to move the pot away from the heat source.

The few times I cooked with induction, I really liked it. It is as responsive as gas, both on the way up and on the way down, and is easy to clean. If my current cooktop ever bites the bullet, I will be replacing it with an induction one.


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## Jovidah (Aug 31, 2021)

Why isn't this in unpopular opinions? 
My experience cooking on electric (non-induction) was so bad that I'd have found it preferable to cook on my gasoline fueled hiking stove or an open camp fire instead.  
Sure, you can still cook fine on it once you get used to it, but to me that's a bit like saying you can get used to riding marathons on a bike without a saddle.


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## ian (Aug 31, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> Sure, you can still cook fine on it once you get used to it, but to me that's a bit like saying you can get used to riding marathons on a bike without a saddle.



Not a good analogy. If you have a good electric stove, it’s more like learning to drive on the left side of the road when you’re from the US.

I feel like a lot of the hate here is from people that just had crappy electric stoves. Good ones have some advantages over gas, and some disadvantages.


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## Honerabi (Aug 31, 2021)

"Cookin, with gas" is a well-worn expression meaning life is good! I moved into a condo last year, and, other than the decorative fireplace, does not allow gas. I went for an induction stove, and have been pleasantly surprised at how responsive and fast the burners are. I had to put out for induction cookware, which can exceed the cost of the stove. The 11" frypan rivals the performance of a wok. Use an induction plate for the All American pressure cooker. The natural gas infrastructure is starting to fail (San Bruno, CA explosion, 2010).


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## rickbern (Aug 31, 2021)

Honerabi said:


> "Cookin, with gas" is a well-worn expression meaning life is good! I moved into a condo last year, and, other than the decorative fireplace, does not allow gas. I went for an induction stove, and have been pleasantly surprised at how responsive and fast the burners are. I had to put out for induction cookware, which can exceed the cost of the stove. The 11" frypan rivals the performance of a wok. Use an induction plate for the All American pressure cooker. The natural gas infrastructure is starting to fail (San Bruno, CA explosion, 2010).


Cooking with gas was an expression that was popularized in the context of most people still cooking with wood or coal.. 

I think


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## Heckel7302 (Aug 31, 2021)

Honerabi said:


> "Cookin, with gas" is a well-worn expression meaning life is good!



One of the most successful marketing campaign slogans in history, from the natural gas industry in the 1930's. Right up there with "Where's the Beef?" and "Got Milk?"


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## Heckel7302 (Aug 31, 2021)

rickbern said:


> Cooking with gas was an expression that was popularized in the context of most people still cooking with wood or coal..
> 
> I think



More electric. 









Nugget of Knowledge: Cooking with gas


The phrase goes back to a 1930s ad campaign.




www.wytv.com


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## Honerabi (Aug 31, 2021)

What shall I do with my Wolf/Viking gas range? Convert to propane? Have always preferred gas dryers. Electric adds up $$$$.


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## sansho (Aug 31, 2021)

Honerabi said:


> "Cookin, with gas" is a well-worn expression meaning life is good! I moved into a condo last year, and, other than the decorative fireplace, does not allow gas. I went for an induction stove, and have been pleasantly surprised at how responsive and fast the burners are. I had to put out for induction cookware, which can exceed the cost of the stove. The 11" frypan rivals the performance of a wok. Use an induction plate for the All American pressure cooker. The natural gas infrastructure is starting to fail (San Bruno, CA explosion, 2010).



which is "the" 11" frypan? i'm looking for _the one_.



Honerabi said:


> What shall I do with my Wolf/Viking gas range? Convert to propane? Have always preferred gas dryers. Electric adds up $$$$.



haha. you mean put a propane tank next to it?


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## Honerabi (Aug 31, 2021)

sansho said:


> which is "the" 11" frypan? i'm looking for _the one_.
> 
> 
> 
> haha. you mean put a propane tank next to it?



I'm using the DeMeyere Atlantis 4.2 qt. saute pan with the square 3 1/2" sides. It has the helper handle, which helps for those with wrist issues. I have the 13" saute pan, but I use the former one the most. Even heat distribution. Have been looking at the Hestan, but I'm dubious about the conductivity claims for Ti. It's lightweight though. 

Propane is sneaky stuff. It seeks the lowest level, whereas natural gas rises.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 1, 2021)

rickbern said:


> Cooked on one of those coil jobs for 21 years, I never thought it was all that bad.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/food/2021/08/30/electric-stovetop-cooking-gas-cooktop/



Agree.

I just got back from holiday in Hawaii where I cooked for 3 weeks on an electric range at my parent's home. Although I prefer gas—I'll cope with whatever cooker is at my disposal, sure a fancy Bluestar would be cool, but a cheap Hotpoint or electric coils are also fine. I'm not a range snob. Growing up in Hawaii I got used to electric ranges, which seem more prevalent than gas. As long as it puts out heat—it's just a tool—dealing with whatever shortcomings of electric is just simple problem solving.

For me, cooking on my parent's electric range after getting accustomed to gas initially had its mishaps and burnt food; the pots took longer to heat, longer to cool down; etc. Nothing wrong with my parent's electric range, I just needed to understand its idiosyncrasies and innate traits; just neeed to be more attentive with electric.

Ranges, whether gas, induction or electric are akin to knives—yeah, I'd rather use a denka, Raquin or Takada to prep (certainly more enjoyable and efficient), but will make do with a Global, Mercer, or $10 knife if needing to. I'll cook the same food no matter what knife or range is handy. Local caught seared ahi with a bright pink dime store knife and circa 80s electric stove—no problem.


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## Bobby2shots (Sep 1, 2021)

My biggest concern over choosing a new stove/range/wall-oven/cook-top, is RELIABILITY!!!. I'm reading so many bad reviews on what initially appears to be the latest/greatest stoves ever created by mankind. "Just give us $5-10k of your hard-earned cash, and we'll provide you with culinary bliss, effortless cleaning, cutting-edge design, and bullet-proof reliability". Then,,, you read the reviews,,,,," My new stove's control-panel spits out gobbledygook,,,repairman says it will cost $800. to change, but parts are back-ordered",,, ***???? Does ANYONE build a completely reliable stove these days?

I'm currently using an old down-draft Jenn-Air range, and it's probably 30-35 years old. It's got manual controls, and everything still works. I do need to replace one of the burner modules, and the parts are still available,,,,, simply slide it in, and it's done. $200. delivered to my door. I can configure the cooktop to whatever I desire, and presently I have a 2-burner grill-module on one side, and a two coil burner module on the other side. I can unplug either one of those modules in seconds, and insert my 2-burner deep-fry-module,,, or any other type of module I'd want. (2-burner griddle for example).

I've already bought all new cookware (All-Clad, Staub, Le Creuset, Fissler) in anticipation of buying a new Induction stove with convection steam-oven,,, but,,,,,,

For the moment I still use the Jenn-Air, plus I have a portable Duxtop 1-burner induction cook-top, plus an Iwatani portable gas cook-top, and a 1-burner portable electric-coil cook-top, and my 5-burner outdoor bar-b-que grill.. a large electric slow-cooker, 8L Insta-Pot multi-cooker, Air-Fryer, 4l deep-fryer, electric rice-cooker, an electric bread-maker, a toaster-oven, and,,,,, a fondue pot. I'm ready for the apocalypse.


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## boomchakabowwow (Sep 1, 2021)

i do love warming tortillas directly on the coils.


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## agp (Sep 3, 2021)

Induction, gas, or death. Get the electric cooktop out of here.


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## sansho (Sep 3, 2021)

but.. induction _is_ electric!


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## DitmasPork (Sep 3, 2021)

TBH, for me next range, it'll be a toss up between gas and induction—the latter said to be more fuel efficient than gas or electric.


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## Bobby2shots (Sep 3, 2021)

All I know is,,, Ana de Armas sure recharges MY batteries.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Sep 3, 2021)

I cook my ass off on an electric coil stove and have for close to two decades. I had gas for a few years and it was nice for the lack of hot spots, but otherwise, just different.

When I grew up everyone cooked on wood (yes iron wood stoves but also outdoors) or electric coil. Next to no one had gas in my circle. It was just normal and you learned how to cook on it.

There are absolutely faaaar better cooks on here than I am but I make some pretty good food that my family has always loved and I don't feel at all hamstrung by my stove. Yeah, it has hot spots, and I don't like that but otherwise, it's just a heat source that you learn to use. I'm far more concerned about my other tools than my heat source.


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## JASinIL2006 (Sep 9, 2021)

Electric coil stoves rate right up there with hangnails, pouring lemon juice on papercuts, and stepping in cat puke in the middle of the night on the way to the bathroom. No thanks.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 9, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I cook my ass off on an electric coil stove and have for close to two decades. I had gas for a few years and it was nice for the lack of hot spots, but otherwise, just different.
> 
> When I grew up everyone cooked on wood (yes iron wood stoves but also outdoors) or electric coil. Next to no one had gas in my circle. It was just normal and you learned how to cook on it.
> 
> There are absolutely faaaar better cooks on here than I am but I make some pretty good food that my family has always loved and I don't feel at all hamstrung by my stove. Yeah, it has hot spots, and I don't like that but otherwise, it's just a heat source that you learn to use. I'm far more concerned about my other tools than my heat source.



I agree with you. Although I prefer gas—I'll just adapt and can cook with either gas, electric, induction, whatever—electric ranges far more common than gas in the State I grew up in. Also don't need a wok to do a good stir fry; or a yanagi or suji to slice wonderful sashimi for that matter.


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## YumYumSauce (Sep 9, 2021)

I'll deal with them if its temporary. But
If I'm ever stuck with electric coils, I'll just go get a portable butane and induction burner and put them right on the range with a full size sheet pan.


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## sansho (Sep 9, 2021)

YumYumSauce said:


> I'll deal with them if its temporary. But
> If I'm ever stuck with electric coils, I'll just go get a portable butane and induction burner and put them right on the range with a full size sheet pan.



same. 1-2 portable inductions and the existing cooktop as a backburner if/when needed.


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## Bobby2shots (Sep 9, 2021)

YumYumSauce said:


> I'll deal with them if its temporary. But
> If I'm ever stuck with electric coils, I'll just go get a portable butane and induction burner and put them right on the range with a full size sheet pan.



I have both; portable butane and portable induction, as well as a portable coil unit. The pot/pan support bars on the butane units, are basically all the same, a 90* cross. This is an accident waiting to happen. If you place a pot off-center, and you're using taller pots with smaller diameter bases, it could easily tip over. With a wide-base pan, they're fine. With induction portables, you run a similar risk, but less so. The added height though, requires a bit more care than a regular cook-top, and they're noisy. Single-burner electric-coil portables have the same height issues, but are the quietest.

I've cooked on coils for close to 60 years, and I have no complaints. I had gas in my restaurant/snack-bar, but those were completely different classes of stove.(commercial grill/griddles and deep-fryer.) I'm presently shopping for induction for home-use, but won't take the plunge without a rock-solid guarantee of service and reliability, and, it has to be relatively noise-free.

My current stove is a 30 year old Jenn-Air downdraft w/electric coils module on one side, and a full-length grill module on the other. The modules lift out and I can swap my deep-fry module in either side in seconds. If Jenn-Air made a drop-in induction "module" for that stove,,, I'd be a very happy camper.


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## coxhaus (Sep 9, 2021)

I cooked on my coil stove for 14 years. I got to where it was automatic for me to turn the stove on high to heat faster, then turn it down once it got hot. I now have a problem when I do that on my Viking gas range without thinking I can get myself into trouble. I now have some pans that react fast enough with even heating that I can get myself out of trouble. I should develop a habit to start on medium and go from there, but I am an old dog which has a hard time learning new tricks.


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## YumYumSauce (Sep 9, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> I have both; portable butane and portable induction, as well as a portable coil unit. The pot/pan support bars on the butane units, are basically all the same, a 90* cross. This is an accident waiting to happen. If you place a pot off-center, and you're using taller pots with smaller diameter bases, it could easily tip over. With a wide-base pan, they're fine. With induction portables, you run a similar risk, but less so. The added height though, requires a bit more care than a regular cook-top, and they're noisy. Single-burner electric-coil portables have the same height issues, but are the quietest.
> 
> I've cooked on coils for close to 60 years, and I have no complaints. I had gas in my restaurant/snack-bar, but those were completely different classes of stove.(commercial grill/griddles and deep-fryer.) I'm presently shopping for induction, but won't take the plunge without a rock-solid guarantee of service and reliability, and, it has to be relatively noise-free.
> 
> My current stove is a 30 year old Jenn-Air downdraft w/electric coils module on one side, and a full-length grill module on the other. The modules lift out and I can swap my deep-fry module in either side in seconds. If Jenn-Air made a drop-in induction "module" for that stove,,, I'd be a very happy camper.




Interesting, thank you for the insight. In practice my Jerry rig vision will probably need some adjustments. If I find myself in this situation Id probably be single in an apartment, cooking small meals for myself. Im thinking Id use the butane burner with frying pans/sauting and what not, induction for liquids/pots. Noise shouldnt bother me too much.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 9, 2021)

All this has the makings of a 'Show Us Your Stove' thread!


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## captaincaed (Sep 9, 2021)

...but please clean it first


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## rickbern (Sep 9, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> ...but please clean it first


That cuts me out!

Seriously, great things sometimes happen if you step out of your comfort zone in your kitchen. I bought the Barbara Kafka roasting book thirty odd years ago and I’ve always been a high temperature roaster, at least in the context of an unventilated apartment kitchen. Last night I made chicken and ribs in the oven. Had a little time so I experimented with lowering the temperature, 325f. Gotta say, came out great, picture perfect, juicy and delicious. Not trying to derail my own thread but I am proposing to some of you anti-coilists to try to break up your routine and maybe question the odd assumption or two.


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## Michi (Sep 9, 2021)

rickbern said:


> Not trying to derail my own thread but I am proposing to some of you anti-coilists to try to break up your routine and maybe question the odd assumption or two.


You might as well try to convince an anti-vaxxer to get vaccinated


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## Bobby2shots (Sep 9, 2021)

YumYumSauce said:


> Interesting, thank you for the insight. In practice my Jerry rig vision will probably need some adjustments. If I find myself in this situation Id probably be single in an apartment, cooking small meals for myself. Im thinking Id use the butane burner with frying pans/sauting and what not, induction for liquids/pots. *Noise shouldnt bother me too much.*



The noise level is roughly the same as a small microwave oven.


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## Jovidah (Sep 9, 2021)

rickbern said:


> Not trying to derail my own thread but I am proposing to some of you anti-coilists to try to break up your routine and maybe question the odd assumption or two.


I cooked on them for years; that's exactly why I hate them so much. Sure, I agree, you _can_ cook on them and you do get used to them to some extent. But even the cheapest gas stoves always felt like a massive upgrade to me.


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## Justinv (Sep 10, 2021)

Michi said:


> You might as well try to convince an anti-vaxxer to get vaccinated


I heard you can’t use induction stoves if your vaccinated.


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## agp (Sep 10, 2021)

This thread should be closed for blasphemy. Electric coil is the work of the devil.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 10, 2021)

rickbern said:


> Not trying to derail my own thread but I am proposing to some of you anti-coilists to try to break up your routine and maybe question the odd assumption or two.



Is 'anti-coilism' a thing? Coils, gas or induction—embrace whatever you got—shouldn't make a difference with cooking.

To me, a big element of cooking is problem solving, adapting, just dealing with whatever limitations there are to cook good food. Ultimately, I'm more into cooking than equipment. When I stay with family, I'll never ever consider complaining about the electric range in their kitchen—I'll just be grateful to have a kitchen to cook in—too petty and snobbish, and irrelevant to the joy of cooking IMO. 

I'm a die hard gas range fan, but simply view electric ranges as just different, not better or worse.


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## Michi (Sep 10, 2021)

Justinv said:


> I heard you can’t use induction stoves if your vaccinated.


Induction stoves are the spawn of the devil. They were invented by the Illuminati in order to exercise mind control of the populace. They have numerous serious health effects, studies of which have been suppressed by Big Appliance. The risks include loss of appetite, reduced fertility, heart palpitations, mind palpitations, and brain rot. So there!


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## HumbleHomeCook (Sep 10, 2021)

Michi said:


> Induction stoves are the spawn of the devil. They were invented by the Illuminati in order to exercise mind control of the populace. They have numerous serious health effects, studies of which have been suppressed by Big Appliance. The risks include loss of appetite, reduced fertility, heart palpitations, mind palpitations, and brain rot. So there!



Ah, c'mon now Michi buddy. That's just called getting old.


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## btbyrd (Sep 10, 2021)

People who think the heat source doesn't matter are kidding themselves. I don't think anyone seriously prefers electric resistance stoves (except for James Beard, who was wrong).


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 10, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> People who think the heat source doesn't matter are kidding themselves. I don't think anyone seriously prefers electric resistance stoves (except for James Beard, who was wrong).


That's like saying no one should prefer stainless over carbon steel. But what if it's Nakagawa's honyaki VG10 vs a Kanefusa FKH?

I've had good gas ranges that I prefer for most* cooking in past apartments. But for whatever reason my wife's current gas stove is underpowered, and I'd rather use my current electric one. Sure, her gas stove is more responsive, but so is a scooter compared to a car. As in all things, theoretically 'better' technology can be thwarted by poor design or installation.

*never had a gas stove that beats electric for boiling water though


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## sansho (Sep 10, 2021)

Justinv said:


> I heard you can’t use induction stoves if your vaccinated.



this is a blatant lie. in fact, i've had the opposite experience.

did you know??
*COVID-19 stands for “Certificate of Vaccination Identification by Artificial Intelligence,” with the number “19” representing the letters “AI.”*

i have a brand new Miele induction range, and this is what happens when i entertain:







extremely frustrating.


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## sansho (Sep 10, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> As in all things, theoretically 'better' technology can be thwarted by poor design or installation.



yes, there's overlap. resitive element cooktops can be better than gas. it depends on the specific device models.


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## btbyrd (Sep 10, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> That's like saying no one should prefer stainless over carbon steel. But what if it's Nakagawa's honyaki VG10 vs a Kanefusa FKH?
> 
> I've had good gas ranges that I prefer for most* cooking in past apartments. But for whatever reason my wife's current gas stove is underpowered, and I'd rather use my current electric one. Sure, her gas stove is more responsive, but so is a scooter compared to a car. As in all things, theoretically 'better' technology can be thwarted by poor design or installation.
> 
> *never had a gas stove that beats electric for boiling water though



I was saying that nobody seriously has a general preference for electric resistance cooktops versus gas or induction (and if they do, then their preferences are bad). I wasn't saying that nobody has ever preferred a particular electric cooktop over a particularly crappy gas one. If we all had had unlimited funds and energy of all types was free, I doubt that any chef or cooking enthusiast would choose to have an electric resistance cooktop installed in their kitchen.


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## M1k3 (Sep 10, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> I doubt that any chef or cooking enthusiast would choose to have an electric resistance cooktop installed in their kitchen.


Except James Beard?


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## btbyrd (Sep 10, 2021)

And he was wrong, peace be upon him. Thankfully, once he died, real cooks tore out his ****** electric range and installed a gas one.

The only thing I can find about his reasons for this preference are that he didn't like the smell of gas. That's a terrible reason. Maybe he had other reasons. If so, I'd like to know.


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## agp (Sep 14, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> That's like saying no one should prefer stainless over carbon steel. But what if it's Nakagawa's honyaki VG10 vs a Kanefusa FKH?



Stainless steel and VG10 all have their pros. Electric coils do not.


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 14, 2021)

agp said:


> Stainless steel and VG10 all have their pros. Electric coils do not.


I get how ignorant monomaniacal zeal can feel more emotionally satisfying than engaging in basic reasoning and critical thinking, but you're off topic.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 14, 2021)

Really comes down to personal preference—it would be too arrogant and small-minded for me to disparage another’s beloved stove. I know some amazing chefs who have electric ranges at home; also know a dude that can’t cook who owns a fancy Bluestar gas range.

One immensely talented home cook I know cooks on electric coils, has no desire to upgrade—she like many other’s just cook on whatever stove comes with their rented apartment.

There was an awesome NYC restaurant with an entirely induction based kitchen, the staff loved it.


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## AT5760 (Sep 14, 2021)

Tolerating an electric coil range is one thing - preferring it is another. In what way(s) is an electric coil range better than both a gas range and an induction range? I can't think of any.


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## stringer (Sep 14, 2021)

Electric has a lot going for it. Cheaper to operate and maintain. Easier to clean. Safer in terms of fire and indoor air pollution risks. Less reliant on fossil fuels. Doesn't release so much lost heat for your air conditioner deal with.

All that being said, I prefer gas to cook on. But not enough to pay the gas company to run a line to my house.


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## btbyrd (Sep 14, 2021)

Induction is the same or better on all those metrics.


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## AT5760 (Sep 14, 2021)

@stringer doesn't induction offer all of those same benefits while being much more responsive than electric coil? And it offers an (almost) cool cooktop.


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## stringer (Sep 14, 2021)

AT5760 said:


> @stringer doesn't induction offer all of those same benefits while being much more responsive than electric coil? And it offers an (almost) cool cooktop.


Sure. Induction is fine. I use it at work. Much more expensive than a standard electric.


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 14, 2021)

stringer said:


> Cheaper





btbyrd said:


> Induction is the same or better on all those metrics.


Did you miss the part about expense? 

From now on I'm just going to assume that anyone who irrationally hates electric stoves is just a bad cook.


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## btbyrd (Sep 14, 2021)

It is not cheaper to operate and maintain. Induction might cost more at the outset (I say "might" because there are plenty of good, inexpensive induction cooktops available) but that doesn't mean it's more expensive to operate. Induction is more efficient than resistance heating and consumes less power, so it's actually cheaper to operate.

From now on I'm just going to assume that anyone defending electric coil stoves is illiterate or arguing in bad faith.


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 14, 2021)

We get it, it has no benefits that _you_ care about. Claiming it has no benefits whatsoever is extremely self-centered.


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## coxhaus (Sep 14, 2021)

I don't know but in Texas gas is cheaper to run than an electric coil range.

PS
When I am talking gas I am talking natural gas. There is lots of it in Texas.


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## AT5760 (Sep 14, 2021)

This is the only semi-scientific comparison that I could readily find that looks at costs to run induction vs. coil:https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2014/data/papers/9-702.pdf. 

This is several years old, but it looks like running costs for induction may not make up for the higher investment cost over coil. The results could likely be very different in a restaurant environment where ranges are running for several hours a day vs minutes in a residential setting. 

So, cost indeed could be an advantage that coil has over gas/induction. (Does that mean its time for an "In defense of AUS-6" thread?)


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## btbyrd (Sep 14, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> We get it, it has no benefits that _you_ care about. Claiming it has no benefits whatsoever is extremely self-centered.



Perhaps you could try listing the supposed benefits instead of engaging in personal attacks (which is pretty much all you've contributed to this thread, aside from your ever-so-helpful anecdote about preferring your electric stove to your wife's crappy gas one). Calling those who disagree with you irrational or self-centered, or bad cooks or ignorant monomaniacal zealots is dickish behavior -- especially when you don't bother to engage with their arguments and don't bother to contribute any of your own.

And I never said electric resistance cooktops have no benefits. They get hot and enable you to cook food in pots and pans -- obviously a benefit. It's just that they're worse than gas or induction on pretty much every important metric and there's no reason to prefer them. Those who disagree are just ignorant, irrational, narcissistic zealots who can't cook.


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 14, 2021)

So mad you replied to yourself 

If you can't understand how a lower upfront cost is a clear benefit to some people, whether or not the long term cost is lower, then you either lack empathy or imagination.

Oh and since you're not defending the electric hob, you're off topic. Maybe start your own thread?


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## btbyrd (Sep 14, 2021)

Again with the personal attacks. Stop being a jerk, man. Not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot or a bad person (or lacking empathy or imagination). I do understand why being less expensive is a benefit. That's why I said things like "If we all had had unlimited funds and energy of all types was free, I doubt that any chef or cooking enthusiast would choose to have an electric resistance cooktop installed in their kitchen." And I stand by this. Price is basically the only reason to prefer electric resistance cooktops over gas or induction. Performance surely isn't.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 14, 2021)

Admittedly, I was intrigued by the thread’s subject of ‘In defense of the electric hob.' So felt it proper to engage in respectful, constructive, dialogues as opposed to impassioned pontification of my own views. Electric coils vs Gas too subjective to be be about 'right' and 'wrong.' Perhaps my comments would differ had the thread been called 'Electric Coils: Why They Suck!.'

Interested in hearing more from @rickbern on his electro coil adventures.

Yeah, I'm a diehard fan of gas ranges, and have been so for decades—but not by choice. Gas ranges came with the apartments I've rented—usually wonky $200 models.

Type of range isn't at the top of my priorities for good cooking—I'll happily cook on anything—gas, electric, induction—bring it! To me, for good cooking, the priorities are tastes/judgements/problem solving; skill/technique; ingredients; knives; cookware; ...followed by type of range somewhere down the list. If having to cook on electric coils—I'll just get on with cooking. Type of range doesn't affect the quality of food I cook—have to adjust my technique to whatever range I use. All have pros/cons.

‘In defense of the electric hob.' On the positive side of electric coils—they're charmingly retro, cheap, iconic, look kinda cool when glowing orange on full blast. It's almost a cliche for cooks to revere their mom's or grandmother's cooking—some of which probably cooked their glorious dishes on electric coils. I was trying to convince an avid cook friend to get gas or induction with her kitchen remodeling—she ultimately went with a glass top electric stove for ease of cleaning; cost; familiarity; and a fear of gas stoves exploding (gotta respect peoples' fears, comfort zone)—I respected and supported her choice, it's her kitchen.

For the most part, I've been limited to cooking on whatever stove comes with the apartment. Cooking on electric coils doesn't phase me since I grew up cooking on them. In the State I was raised, electric much more prevalent than gas; propane tanks not always a possibility. For the amount of money I've spent on gyutos, I could've easily bought a Capital Culinarian Gas Range—but gyutos more of a priority for me.


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## M1k3 (Sep 14, 2021)

AT5760 said:


> This is the only semi-scientific comparison that I could readily find that looks at costs to run induction vs. coil:https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2014/data/papers/9-702.pdf.
> 
> This is several years old, but it looks like running costs for induction may not make up for the higher investment cost over coil. The results could likely be very different in a restaurant environment where ranges are running for several hours a day vs minutes in a residential setting.
> 
> So, cost indeed could be an advantage that coil has over gas/induction. (Does that mean its time for an "In defense of AUS-6" thread?)


Another benefit for induction in a restaurant, is way less heat released into the environment. Less ventilation and cooling needed.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 14, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Another benefit for induction in a restaurant, is way less heat released into the environment. Less ventilation and cooling needed.



The now defunct 'Tasting Room' restaurant in NYC's East Village was all induction, their kitchen was in a basement where they couldn't adequately vent.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Sep 14, 2021)

I remember an Anthony Bourdain episode, I think it was A Cook's Tour but he was digging on some really good food and discovered they were cranking it all out on a regular ole four-burner residential coil stove.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 14, 2021)

Retro electric coil love. Honestly, it would be fun to cook on any one of these!


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## JASinIL2006 (Sep 14, 2021)

I lived in an apartment that had one of those old coil stoves with the very wide heating elements. The thing took forever to heat up, but once it did, it put out a prodigious amount of heat. And it took forever to cool down, too.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 14, 2021)

JASinIL2006 said:


> I lived in an apartment that had one of those old coil stoves with the very wide heating elements. The thing took forever to heat up, but once it did, it put out a prodigious amount of heat. And it took forever to cool down, too.


I’ve found the same with glass top electric—takes a while to heat and cool down.


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## JASinIL2006 (Sep 15, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> I’ve found the same with glass top electric—takes a while to heat and cool down.



Good point. I haven't cooked on glass top electric much, but my parents had one (long after I left home) and I do recall it staying hot for a long time.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 15, 2021)

JASinIL2006 said:


> Good point. I haven't cooked on glass top electric much, but my parents had one (long after I left home) and I do recall it staying hot for a long time.



My parents have a glass top, gas is not an option in her part of the state. Just got back from 3 weeks of cooking on her stove, takes me a couple of meals to adjust my timing.


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## rickbern (Sep 15, 2021)

I actually have a gas range now but I used to use coil. It certainly demanded a different approach to cookware; all clad style triply pans were poor performers but thick disk bottomed pans were much better.

I guess the main advantage of an electric stove over gas is that they’re universally available.

I don’t understand someone saying they wouldn’t ever use an electric stove anymore than I can imagine someone saying that they couldn’t make a meal with a santoku. It might not be your preference but you can still achieve superior results if you embrace the tools available to you.


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## btbyrd (Sep 15, 2021)

Nobody has ever said that they'd never use an electric stove.

The article that started off this thread began by attacking a straw man. The authors main point? "You don't need a gas stove to be a good cook." Well guess what. Nobody has ever claimed otherwise. The conclusion of the article is that "an attentive cook can make a good meal on a bad stove, and a careless cook can make a bad meal on even the most high-end stove, no matter the fuel. The equipment is not as important as the person using it." Well la-de-freaking-da. Again, nobody has ever claimed otherwise.

For what it's worth, I cook on a glass top electric range. It's fine. I don't prefer it to the alternatives, though it is better than some of the crappy gas ones I've had in rental houses. I still have portable induction and butane burners that I use when the shortcomings of the resistance cooktop are too bothersome. The main problems are that they take a while to heat up and cool down and that they tend to power cycle to regulate their heat, such that the temperature of the pan ping-pongs up and down as the burner turns on and off. Using heavier cookware moderates this effect, but it's still not as nice as having a constant heat input on gas or induction. The total lack of responsiveness is a related major issue. If you see a pot about to boil over, you'd better have somewhere to move it because you have to physically pick it up and stick it in a different location to prevent that from happening. With gas or induction, you can drop the heat almost instantly. This isn't just a problem that happens with boilover -- if you're cooking a protein and notice that it's cooking too quickly, you have to remove the pan from the heat for a bit and allow it to cool down before sticking it back down on the burner. 

Is there anything electric resistance cooktops are especially good at? No. I guess it's good at being cheap, but that's not really a great defense of the technology. It's a point in its favor, but when we're evaluating whether or not cooking equipment is good or bad, the price isn't a primary consideration. In terms of cooking performance, resistance heating is still not as good as gas or induction at pretty much everything. I guess it cleans up kind of easily (unless you boil over a sauce or spatter oil and it scorches on the burner you can't turn off). But induction is even easier to clean because there's less scorching, and I never found gas especially onerous to clean. Meh. It's just not as good as the alternatives.

At the end of the day, the best combo for me would be a a pro-sumer gas cooktop, an electric oven (preferably a combi), and a portable induction hob (preferably a Control Freak). I prefer the immediacy and visual feedback of gas and find that it works better for most of my cookware. You can't use donabes on resistance or induction cooktops. Cast iron and carbon steel is easier to season and maintain over gas. Induction is fine, but the elements tend to be small and create hot spots in the center of the pan (unless you shell out a lot of money for one with huge coils, or loads of smaller ones). But for now, I'll continue to crank out meals mostly on my low-mid-tier electric Maytag range. And when it's too annoying, I'll break out the butane or plug in my Vollrath Mirage Pro.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 15, 2021)

rickbern said:


> I actually have a gas range now but I used to use coil. It certainly demanded a different approach to cookware; all clad style triply pans were poor performers but thick disk bottomed pans were much better.
> 
> I guess the main advantage of an electric stove over gas is that they’re universally available.
> 
> I don’t understand someone saying they wouldn’t ever use an electric stove anymore than I can imagine someone saying that they couldn’t make a meal with a santoku. It might not be your preference but you can still achieve superior results if you embrace the tools available to you.



Totally agree that cooking on coils takes a different approach—mainly with timing; having to be more aware of heat level once I'd turned the burner off; being more attentive than with my gas range. I dig cooking when I travel—being flexible; dealing with whatever type of range available is just a part of cooking for me.

My preference is for gas stoves—but the low cost of electric coils stoves is as valid a reason for many to buy electric coil stoves, as is performance. Some cooks I know are perfectly happy with their electric coils.

To some, electric coils are better than gas ranges—I know a few who don't like having a gas range in their kitchen.

Below is the beauty of a glass top cooker I used for a week on my last trip to Australia. Must admit I was a little shocked as this was described as a 'full kitchen' in a 'luxury cabin.' Got used to it, cooked some fine meals for four.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 16, 2021)

Your gas stove is polluting your own home. Go electric | Brady Seals


Gas stoves can produce air pollution levels indoors that would be illegal outside




www.theguardian.com


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## btbyrd (Sep 16, 2021)

That article is a defense of induction, not electric hobs.



> "Electric stoves have a bad reputation to people who remember the coils of resistance stoves, which heated slowly and were not very responsive. But today we have a much better option: induction stoves. Powered by magnets, this new technology does everything that gas can, and also heats faster than gas and allows more precise temperature control. ...
> 
> Induction stoves heat quickly and are nearly three times as efficient as gas stoves [and are also more efficient than resistance stoves]. Based on these energy savings, a national EnergyStar rating would help cities, states and big box stores like Home Depot incentivize and promote induction stoves. If the health, climate and energy-saving benefits of induction stoves were monetized, policymakers would practically give them away. "



But what the article really argues for, though it doesn't know it, is investing in good ventilation for home kitchens. Gas stoves don't pollute the homes of people who bothered to vent them properly and get adequate makeup air installed. The article acts like it has made a great case against gas from a health perspective, but it's really just made a case against insufficient ventilation. All ranges lower indoor air quality unless properly vented.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 16, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> That article is a defense of induction, not electric hobs.
> 
> 
> 
> But what the article really argues for, though it doesn't know it, is investing in good ventilation for home kitchens. Gas stoves don't pollute the homes of people who bothered to vent them properly and get adequate makeup air installed. The article acts like it has made a great case against gas from a health perspective, but it's really just made a case against insufficient ventilation. All ranges lower indoor air quality unless properly vented.



I’m still a gas fan—but found the article interesting with some valid points.

All the places I’ve lived have poor ventilation, without the possibility of improvement; the building I currently live doesn’t allow kitchens to vent out.

IMHO, an altogether different situ if one lives in a house; owns it—so they can do whatever. For urban dwellers like me in NYC, gotta make do, and embrace whatever stove given.

From a performance perspective, cooks I know that have electric coils in their apartments are fine with it—they just learn how to eek the most out of it. The best stove is the stove one cooks their best food on. Gas ranges do scare some I know—they’re more familiar with electric.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Sep 16, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> That article is a defense of induction, not electric hobs.
> 
> 
> 
> But what the article really argues for, though it doesn't know it, is investing in good ventilation for home kitchens. Gas stoves don't pollute the homes of people who bothered to vent them properly and get adequate makeup air installed. The article acts like it has made a great case against gas from a health perspective, but it's really just made a case against insufficient ventilation. All ranges lower indoor air quality unless properly vented.




"...people who bothered..."

Ya know, lots of folks don't have the means or are restricted in a whole lot of this stuff. I'll put myself in that category. I'm not going to go strutting around saying coil stoves are superior to other types, but, and like I said, they aren't the devil's messenger either. For crying out loud. If I'd had the internet 30yrs ago when I was watching Great Chef's of the World or Two Fat Ladies on Discovery Channel, I might have abandoned my desire to cook.

How's about we just encourage people to cook and get excited about that?


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## Oshidashi (Sep 16, 2021)

Michi said:


> Induction stoves are the spawn of the devil. They were invented by the Illuminati in order to exercise mind control of the populace. They have numerous serious health effects, studies of which have been suppressed by Big Appliance. The risks include loss of appetite, reduced fertility, heart palpitations, mind palpitations, and brain rot. So there!



Funny that you mention heart palpitations. It turns out that induction hobs have the potential to reprogram or otherwise interfere with your cardiac pacemaker. It is usually just a problem if you are within two feet of the device, like when you are stirring a pot. Note that pacemakers are pretty common. Thus, if you have a pacer or might unexpectedly need one in the future (this covers most living persons), and are not suicidal, you might want to think twice before investing in an expensive induction cooktop.


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## btbyrd (Sep 16, 2021)

Ya know, I primarily cook on a resistance cooktop in a property I don't own and over which I have no say about the type of stove available to me. So I put myself in that category. And as I've already said, this cooktop is preferable in some ways to the crappy gas ranges I've had in other previous properties. But it's not especially better with respect to health and indoor air quality, because the primary consideration in that respect is ventilation -- not the heat source. My resistance cooktop produces almost no emissions (in the house -- the powerplant is a different story) but if I sear a steak inside, it smokes out the place like nobody's business. That's why I sear outside. Same deal with deep frying.

All that said, I don't really understand the dialectic of this thread. The detractors of electric resistance stoves have made their points well enough, but I still don't know what the points in favor of it are supposed to be. DitmasPork cited an article urging us to "go electric" in which the author crapped all over electric resistance heating and urged people and policymakers to adopt induction instead. That's a message that all of us "haters of electric" have been getting behind throughout this thread. On balance, induction > resistance. Electric coils? Nobody said they are "the devil's messenger." What people are saying is that they're inferior to gas and induction on pretty much every measure except being cheap (and even that's debatable). I understand that if you live in NYC and have limited options, you have to take what you're given. Maybe gas isn't the best option in your cramped, unventilated, pricey abode. But is resistance electric the best option? Even the article quoted, the answer is "no."

Defenders of resistance heating have been big on saying things like "oh, a good cook can produce good food on any kind of range," or "I like to be flexible and cook on whatever is available." And again I'll note that everyone thinks this is true. Nobody walks into a kitchen, sees an electric range, and says "No good cook could cook in here!" or "**** this ****, I'm out of here," or "I'll burn this place to the ground before I cook on that POS." We all adapt and make due with what's on hand, and the best cooks can excel within all kinds of limitations. Nobody truly finds coils "unacceptable." They might crap on them, strongly prefer other things, or whatever... but nobody is literally going to throw their hands up in the air and say "No -- I draw the line at cooking on resistance stoves!". That's a straw man. Just like the stupid idea that motivated the article that started this thread: "You have to have a gas stove to be a good cook." Nobody has ever argued for that.

Mostly I can't believe that people are having this debate on this forum, of all places. Here people debate about what kind of diamond or obscure Japanese rock is the best to polish whatever obscure meteorite vanadium alloyed magic steel that 99.95 percent of the population has never heard of and have no use for. The fake folksy "my Grammy used an electric coil stove, and her cooking was just fine with Grandpa!" type of reasoning strikes me as either disingenuous or strangely compartementalized. So I'll say it again, since people have apparently not gotten my point -- nobody would seriously prefer to cook on an electric resistance range if they had enough space, money, ventilation, or ownership to cook on something else. If you're going to try to offer an argument against anything I've said in this thread, please argue against that specific claim.

I'll end by echoing the last point in HHC's last post. "How's about we just encourage people to cook and get excited about that?" I whole-heartedly endorse this position. I wouldn't argue against that at all. Just like I wouldn't tell people not to cook if they had crappy knives or crappy stoves or sub-par ingredients or whatever. Nobody is saying not to cook at all if all they have is a resistance range. They're not saying that they'd refuse to cook on one, or that they'd refuse to adapt to whatever's on hand, or that no poor person in a crowded and overpriced urban market should ever cook on one if that's all they have available. The point is just that gas and induction are each better in their own ways than resistance electric is. This isn't a reason not to cook -- I have an electric resistance range and I cook on it (almost) all the time! But it's still inferior to the alternatives.


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## ian (Sep 16, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> nobody would seriously prefer to cook on an electric resistance range if they had enough space, money, ventilation, or ownership to cook on something else. If you're going to try to offer an argument against anything I've said in this thread, please argue against that specific claim.



I preferred my previous smooth top electric to my current gas stove, except for my current wok capabilities. I enumerated the pros somewhere on the first page of this thread. (When I upgrade, it’ll probably be to induction.) But whatever, I agree this thread is totally ridiculous. 4 pages of people saying the exact same things 100 times…


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## Michi (Sep 16, 2021)

Oshidashi said:


> Funny that you mention heart palpitations. It turns out that induction hobs have the potential to reprogram or otherwise interfere with your cardiac pacemaker.


Hah, that was pure accident. I wasn't aware of the pacemaker problem. Looks like induction is simply not an option for at least some people with pacemakers. (A brief search suggests that it depends on the type of pacemaker and how it is installed.)


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## btbyrd (Sep 16, 2021)

Ian: I also prefer my smooth top electric to my previous gas stoves. Of course, that doesn't mean that resistance heating is better per se than gas or induction. But yeah, I agree that this thread has gotten ridiculous so I'ma bow out and not argue about this anymore. After all, I use gas, resistance, and induction depending on the task at hand.


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## Michi (Sep 16, 2021)




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## sansho (Sep 17, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> "...people who bothered..."
> 
> Ya know, lots of folks don't have the means or are restricted in a whole lot of this stuff.
> ...



i get what you're saying and agree with you.

but i'll add that i think indoor air quality is sadly an oft-overlooked problem. it's never a bad idea to "bother" investing in your health and adequately ventilate your cooking equipment.

i say this as someone with a woefully underventilated commercial, open-burner range at one of my places. it makes me uneasy every time i use it. haha. i'll get to that remodel eventually!


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## JASinIL2006 (Sep 17, 2021)

Michi said:


> Hah, that was pure accident. I wasn't aware of the pacemaker problem. Looks like induction is simply not an option for at least some people with pacemakers. (A brief search suggests that it depends on the type of pacemaker and how it is installed.)



It does raise the possibility of potentially new marketable kitchen gear. Lead-lined kitchen aprons! Fashionable Faraday cage chef’s jackets!


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## coxhaus (Sep 17, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Your gas stove is polluting your own home. Go electric | Brady Seals
> 
> 
> Gas stoves can produce air pollution levels indoors that would be illegal outside
> ...



I noticed it said "can" cause air pollution. I assume it means if the flame is too yellow and the air mixture is not in balance with the gas.


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## sansho (Sep 17, 2021)

that blue flame on your stove is putting out more than CO2 and H2O. but even CO2 lowers indoor air quality.


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## Michi (Oct 5, 2021)

Adam Ragusea just released a video that discusses gas and electric cooktops.


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## coxhaus (Oct 5, 2021)

I noticed he stated about boiling water that he compared to electric said he used his small gas burner? Why would he not use his largest burner, maybe a larger pot also. I cooked on American coil burner like he showed for 14 years. My Viking gas range to me is better in every way that I remember of course it has been 17 years since I cooked electric. What I remember about my original Kenmore gas cook top was it was too small. I had pans all bunched up. I think it had a smaller footprint than my old electric stove.


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## DitmasPork (Oct 5, 2021)

Stove at parent's that I'm cooking on for the next few weeks. No issues, no frustrations—timing a bit different than my gas range. Just a heat source, I've adjusted—also a source of nostalgia for me.

TBH, prob better than my gas range—oven is more true than the gas range I have in NYC.


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## rmrf (Oct 5, 2021)

After reading through some of this thread, I got curious if I could think of anything besides start-up price that coil electric is better than induction. I came up with _maybe_ two:

*Coil electric probably won't shut down from overheating like some induction stoves. *If I stir fry on my induction stove for too long, the burner will get too hot and it will shut itself off to prevent damage. Basically, any time I leave the burner on max with a heavy pan for a long time. It's incredibly frustrating when it happens. A better induction stove might solve this problem, but I'd guess that electric coil stoves don't have this problem. Glass top coil stoves still might have this problem though, I don't know.

*Cheaper pans*. If you cook in a way that damages pans, it might be a lot better to have a coil electric vs induction. In my opinion, the biggest downside to induction is you need good pans that lie flat. Cheap aluminum pans are probably always going to be cheaper than a magnetic pan. Not only that, I suspect a coil stove cares less about a flat bottom. I'm not exactly sure what cooking technique will destroy pans, but I would guess something where you need to cook with extremely high heat, then immediately deglaze.

I agree with Adam Ragusea about the heat output. Most gas stoves I've cooked on have less extremely high and extremely low heat than induction or electric. Of course you can always get a gas stove that will have a higher max heat output.



Michi said:


> Hah, that was pure accident. I wasn't aware of the pacemaker problem. Looks like induction is simply not an option for at least some people with pacemakers. (A brief search suggests that it depends on the type of pacemaker and how it is installed.)





JASinIL2006 said:


> It does raise the possibility of potentially new marketable kitchen gear. Lead-lined kitchen aprons! Fashionable Faraday cage chef’s jackets!



I'd guess the risk is from the cycling magnetic field, not some sort of radiation so lead is probably not the best solution. It might make people feel better though.

I would try mu metal. Unfortunately, that would be more like wearing a breastplate.


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## stringer (Oct 5, 2021)

rmrf said:


> After reading through some of this thread, I got curious if I could think of anything besides start-up price that coil electric is better than induction. I came up with _maybe_ two:
> 
> *Coil electric probably won't shut down from overheating like some induction stoves. *If I stir fry on my induction stove for too long, the burner will get too hot and it will shut itself off to prevent damage. Basically, any time I leave the burner on max with a heavy pan for a long time. It's incredibly frustrating when it happens. A better induction stove might solve this problem, but I'd guess that electric coil stoves don't have this problem. Glass top coil stoves still might have this problem though, I don't know.
> 
> ...



Restaurant supply stainless steel pans are better than aluminum in every way. They heat up faster and more evenly. They are highly unlikely to warp. At my cafe we use induction burners. We have very limited space and no hoods. We pretty much have to toss the hot used pans straight into the dish sink because there's nowhere to let them safely cool off. I have been amazed at how sturdy they are compared to the cheap aluminum ones I used for most of my professional cooking life. I remember when I worked in an Indian restaurant, we made our Basmati in a giant aluminum rondeau. We had to buy a new one every couple of months because the rondeaus would always warp enough that the lid didn't fit tight and then they were useless for steaming rice. And the aluminum saute pans would always warp enough that you couldn't use them to simmer anything on the stove without supporting the thing with a pair of tongs. And they would warp so bad that it would pull the rivets right out of the handles. You walk into a place with a giant stack of aluminum pans it's guaranteed they all have loose handles. The base of the stainless steel ones will eventually start to separate and peel away but it takes years of abuse.


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## rmrf (Oct 5, 2021)

stringer said:


> Restaurant supply stainless steel pans are better than aluminum in every way. They heat up faster and more evenly. They are highly unlikely to warp. At my cafe we use induction burners. We have very limited space and no hoods. We pretty much have to toss the hot used pans straight into the dish sink because there's nowhere to let them safely cool off. I have been amazed at how sturdy they are compared to the cheap aluminum ones I used for most of my professional cooking life. I remember when I worked in an Indian restaurant, we made our Basmati in a giant aluminum rondeau. We had to buy a new one every couple of months because the rondeaus would always warp enough that the lid didn't fit tight and then they were useless for steaming rice. And the aluminum saute pans would always warp enough that you couldn't use them to simmer anything on the stove without supporting the thing with a pair of tongs. And they would warp so bad that it would pull the rivets right out of the handles. You walk into a place with a giant stack of aluminum pans it's guaranteed they all have loose handles. The base of the stainless steel ones will eventually start to separate and peel away but it takes years of abuse.



This is great information! I don't suppose you can tell me the brand or type? Are they tri-ply, disk, or just solid stainless? I'm guessing a disk type, from your observation that the "base of the stainless steel ones peel away". 

I've been looking for an affordable fry pan that can I beat up and won't warp. I only have a single disk pan so its more than possible that a disk pan would solve my problems


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## stringer (Oct 5, 2021)

I'm doing tons of eggs so I have to buy nonsticks. And they get beat up and then I have to buy more. I've been very happy with the Vigor brand from Webstaurantstore. But I suspect that they are rebranded Thunder Group pans. Thunder Group is available all over the place. I also recently bought some Winco ones from Restaurant Depot. They have been fine too. The price between the heavy aluminum ones and the stainless steel disk ones has come down over the years. And the steel ones are so much better. I have a bunch of nice stuff at home. Plenty of All Clad and vintage Griswolds and Le Creuset and most of the time I still will use my trusty 5 quart Thunder Group pan. In home use I can't ever imagine peeling a base off. At my last job it happened because of popcorn of all things. We had a popcorn party thing on our banquet menu and we would have to pop fresh popcorn for up to like 1000 people at a time. Easiest way is in batches in giant rondeaus. But in between each batch you have to spray them out with water or the popcorn started burning. You shouldn't spray super hot pans with cold water, but you gotta do what you gotta do. People go crazy for popcorn. Those pans still made it for years and years.


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## rickbern (Oct 7, 2021)

@Luftmensch , this ones for you!

seriously, I got rid of all my nonstick years ago. The environmental impact of individual decisions we all make, when multiplied by 8 billion people are significant









We need to talk about your gas stove, your health and climate change


Americans love their gas stoves, but they pollute homes and are connected to a supply system that leaks methane. That's part of a battle as more people face a decision about switching to electric.




www.npr.org


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## rickbern (Oct 7, 2021)

Some of you may recall I just bought an anova oven; I wish I could say that research like this influenced my decision but it did not.

however if I was still on the fence this would merit serious consideration. I do lots of long braising in the oven where I can have it onfor three hours at a time


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## stringer (Oct 7, 2021)

rickbern said:


> @Luftmensch , this ones for you!
> 
> seriously, I got rid of all my nonstick years ago. The environmental impact of individual decisions we all make, when multiplied by 8 billion people are significant
> 
> ...



I would love to find a suitable affordable durable alternative for high volume over easy's if anyone has any suggestions. Must work on induction.

At home I am trying one of the new copper composite ones. Seems to be working pretty well but I'm not sure it how would hold up to high volume.


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## coxhaus (Oct 7, 2021)

I don't think the bills are the same for both gas and electric is much higher. The house I am in was originally had gas around. The son was an electrician so he had installed electric hot water and an electric dryer. When I moved in, I used it for a few years with those appliances as they were new. I swapped out the electric hot water and gas dryer and my bills went down around $50 per month. My gas bill in Texas around summer time is nothing for 6 or 8 months. Only in the winter does it go up.

My daughter is on the list to get a new house next fall with gas. She does not like the all-electric house she currently has.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 7, 2021)

Honerabi said:


> What shall I do with my Wolf/Viking gas range? Convert to propane? Have always preferred gas dryers. Electric adds up $$$$.


Prefer trade wind dryers.


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## parbaked (Oct 7, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Prefer trade wind dryers.


With a good sun cycle thrown in…


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## Honerabi (Oct 7, 2021)

Too scratchy.


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## coxhaus (Oct 7, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Prefer trade wind dryers.



I have one of the old Matag gas dryers. They run forever.


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## parbaked (Oct 7, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I have one of the old Matag gas dryers. They run forever.


The trade wind dryers have much lower operating costs….


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## Michi (Oct 7, 2021)

I installed a solar hot water system over twenty years ago. It is completely passive; the water moves around by convection. There is a 2 kW booster heater in case there is an extended period of rain. We get 80% of our hot water heated by the sun that way.

Installing solar panels is also a great idea. I installed a system ten years ago and, since then, our house has been a net exporter of electricity. For every kW we import, we export 1.5 kW.

I realise that this isn't an option for everyone. But, if you can do these things in your situation, do. It's good for the planet and saves a ton of money. ROI for a PV system here is around 4-5 years, and less for a solar hot water system.


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## deskjockey (Oct 21, 2021)

First, I have lived with crappy electric coil stoves. Yes, I learned to cook on them and have made awesome meals on them.

The house I bought had a smooth glass electric cooktop. I hated that cooktop with a passion I have for few things in life! It simply cooks any food splatters into scorched stains that are very difficult to remove and it always looked dirty, whether cleaned or not.

With electric cooktops and stoves, the biggest problem with heat I have is related to poor wiring that simply cannot deliver enough power to put enough heat into the pan (a lot of what is produced is wasted in kitchen heat).

Natural gas provides responsiveness and is a great visual indicator of heat levels. I dismissed Induction until I went to Europe. I cooked on an AEG induction smooth cooktop that was simply awesome! It also didn't heat up the kitchen because it put all its heat into the pan! For efficiency, it is hard to argue against AEG.


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## rickbern (Dec 15, 2021)

Oy vey!









N.Y.C.’s Gas Ban Takes Fight Against Climate Change to the Kitchen


New York will become the nation’s largest city to enact a ban on gas heat and stoves in new buildings. It’s a major step away from fossil fuels that is expected to influence wider markets.




www.nytimes.com


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## coxhaus (Dec 18, 2021)

rickbern said:


> Oy vey!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I read NYC's electricity is made using 85% fossil fuel. So, why don't they work on that instead of limiting gas to buildings.


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## rickbern (Dec 19, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I read NYC's electricity is made using 85% fossil fuel. So, why don't they work on that instead of limiting gas to buildings.


Lots of reasons to do anything you can both incrementally and fundamentally to reduce greenhouse emissions. I dont want to veer too political in this thread but I support all initiatives both municipal and personal to make improvements both large and small.


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## rickbern (Dec 19, 2021)

@coxhaus We get a fair amount from nuclear and hydro as well. Niagara Falls is not just for honeymooners. 


*QUICK FACTS*

New York revised its Clean Energy Standard in 2019 to require 100% carbon-free electricity from both renewable sources and nuclear energy by 2040. In 2020, renewable sources and nuclear power, together, supplied 60% of New York's in-state generation from utility-scale and small-scale facilities. 
Nuclear power accounted for 29% of New York's utility-scale net generation in 2020, down from 34% in 2019 because of the retirement of one reactor. A second reactor retired in 2021, completing the closure of Indian Point, one of the state's four nuclear power plants. 
In 2020, New York accounted for 11% of U.S. hydroelectricity net generation, and the state was the third-largest producer of hydroelectricity in the nation, after Washington and Oregon. 
In 2019, New York was the sixth-largest natural gas consumer among the states. New York's natural gas consumption per capita was less than in almost three-fourths of the states even though three in five households use natural gas for home heating. 
In 2019, New York was the fifth-largest consumer of petroleum among the states, but New Yorkers consume less petroleum per capita than residents of any other state in the nation.


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## AT5760 (Jan 3, 2022)

I've finally (and unfortunately) found an advantage that coil ranges have over induction. Pyrex cookware doesn't work on induction and my favorite double boiler, which was my grandmother's, is Pyrex.


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## sansho (Jan 3, 2022)

AT5760 said:


> I've finally (and unfortunately) found an advantage that coil ranges have over induction. Pyrex cookware doesn't work on induction and my favorite double boiler, which was my grandmother's, is Pyrex.





those are nice. i have a whole set of pyrex cookware. induction's nice enough to let it go, though..


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## stringer (Jan 27, 2022)

Saw this today and thought of y'all









Gas stoves leak climate-warming methane even when they're off


A study finds tiny leaks from loose fittings added up to more emissions than when stoves were in use. The impact of U.S. gas stoves on climate change amounts to the same effect as a half-million cars.




www.npr.org


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## coxhaus (Jan 27, 2022)

Don't people test their gas pipe couplings with a leak detector? I can't believe that many couplings are leaking from their pipes. It seems like their house would burn down.

No way I am giving up my gas stove. I love it.


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## rickbern (Jan 27, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> Don't people test their gas pipe couplings with a leak detector? I can't believe that many couplings are leaking from their pipes. It seems like their house would burn down.
> 
> No way I am giving up my gas stove. I love it.


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## coxhaus (Jan 27, 2022)

They had a lot of insight, I guess. I do like Talking Heads.


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## DitmasPork (Jan 27, 2022)

Spent 3 weeks over the holidays cooking on my parent’s electric—I prefer gas—quickly got used to it, adjusted to it, didn’t hamper my cooking in the least.

In the end, doesn’t matter to me if it’s gas or electric.

Bracing myself for the NYC ban on gas stoves: “*New York City will ban gas-powered heaters, stoves and water boilers in all new buildings*, a move that will significantly affect real estate development and construction in the nation's largest city and could influence how cities around the world seek to reduce the burning of fossil fuels, which drives climate change.” —-NYTimes


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## BillHanna (Jan 27, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> Spent 3 weeks over the holidays cooking on my parent’s electric—I prefer gas—quickly got used to it, adjusted to it, didn’t hamper my cooking in the least.
> 
> In the end, doesn’t matter to me if it’s gas or electric.
> 
> ...


This would actually do WONDERS in my house. Someone call Westinghouse to modernize it.


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## DitmasPork (Jan 27, 2022)

BillHanna said:


> This would actually do WONDERS in my house. Someone call Westinghouse to modernize it.


TBH, it looks really cool, love to cook with it for kicks—a fantastic example of mid-century modern appliances, I'm a fan of stuff from that time period. Sadly, I'd destroy that oven in no time at all.


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## coxhaus (Jan 28, 2022)

I have replaced both my gas valves in my Viking gas range. They are heavy expensive valves which default to not working. I really doubt they leak. Nothing is picked up with a leak detector. So which stoves are leaking methane? Cheap Chinese stoves?

The other thing I do is light my burners with a long nose lighter. They light instantly using a lighter. It just seems easier to me. If you spill food on the ignitors then sometimes, they do not work until all the food burns off.


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## stringer (Jan 28, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I have replaced both my gas valves in my Viking gas range. They are heavy expensive valves which default to not working. I really doubt they leak. Nothing is picked up with a leak detector. So which stoves are leaking methane? Cheap Chinese stoves?
> 
> The other thing I do is light my burners with a long nose lighter. They light instantly using a lighter. It just seems easier to me. If you spill food on the ignitors then sometimes, they do not work until all the food burns off.



I can't remember if it was in that article specifically because I have been reading a lot about this kind of thing lately. But this study didn't try to figure that out precisely. But they also said that some methane escapes unburned any time there is a flame. So for instance the pilot lights. And when in operation. It also said that gas ovens are really bad at releasing methane as they cycle on an off while you are using them. That's even if all your connections are perfect.


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## stringer (Jan 28, 2022)

stringer said:


> I can't remember if it was in that article specifically because I have been reading a lot about this kind of thing lately. But this study didn't try to figure that out precisely. But they also said that some methane escapes unburned any time there is a flame. So for instance the pilot lights. And when in operation. It also said that gas ovens are really bad at releasing methane as they cycle on an off while you are using them. That's even if all your connections are perfect.


And irrelevant to how new your unit is or how fancy a brand you bought. It's just the way the natural gas works.


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## DitmasPork (Jan 28, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I have replaced both my gas valves in my Viking gas range. They are heavy expensive valves which default to not working. I really doubt they leak. Nothing is picked up with a leak detector. So which stoves are leaking methane? Cheap Chinese stoves?
> 
> The other thing I do is light my burners with a long nose lighter. They light instantly using a lighter. It just seems easier to me. If you spill food on the ignitors then sometimes, they do not work until all the food burns off.



Where do you get a leak detector? All I've ever had were cheap gas stoves—probably made in China—cooking with whatever came with the apartment.


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## coxhaus (Jan 28, 2022)

Start lightening your burners with a lighter. After while it will become second nature and you will do it automatically without thinking about it.

The leak detectors are an electronic device. My buddy has one. I assume you buy them at Home Depot. I will try to remember to ask him.


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## rickbern (Jan 28, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> Start lightening your burners with a lighter. After while it will become second nature and you will do it automatically without thinking about it.
> 
> The leak detectors are an electronic device. My buddy has one. I assume you buy them at Home Depot. I will try to remember to ask him.


There’s just got to be lost gas. You turn it on, you ignite it. If you use a long nose lighter, that thing leaks, then you’re disposing plastic and some unburnt fuel in the lighter. But some gas still escapes. 

but let’s assume the vast majority of the population uses the igniter. There’s gas that leaks before it catches. Sometimes a lot, those things are always misfiring. I think the study is trying to point out that this is more significant than heretofore assumed.

ps, Im not trying to attack you, in fact I’m with you. I don’t like igniters. I keep this right next to my stove, they last for years. Best compromise. I’m just pointing out the clear places that waste almost has to occur


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## coxhaus (Jan 28, 2022)

Igniters take too long to light. Before I turn on the gas my lighter is burning with a flame before I turn on the gas. The gas blows into the flame.


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## stringer (Jan 28, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> Igniters take too long to light. Before I turn on the gas my lighter is burning with a flame before I turn on the gas. The gas blows into the flame.



And as the flame burns a not insignificant amount of methane escapes unburned into your living quarters. Don't get me wrong, I would prefer gas even with this new research. If the city didn't want 10k to run the gas line.


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## Greasylake (Jan 28, 2022)

All this talk about gas vs. Electric, when are we going to have the real conversation and revive the wood stove?


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 28, 2022)

Greasylake said:


> All this talk about gas vs. Electric, when are we going to have the real conversation and revive the wood stove?



When I was a kid, I lived on a cattle ranch with my oldest sister for a couple years. We had an electric stove and a massive beautiful 1800's wood stove/oven (multi drawers etc.). We did 90% of our cooking on that stove and it was awesome. You had to learn how to fire it and how to maximize all the zones from the top to the warming drawers. We used wood heat so the wood was plentiful and had to be chopped anyway.

From bacon and eggs to get started for the morning to full blown holiday meals, we (mostly my sis but I used it a lot too) did it on that stove.


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## M1k3 (Jan 28, 2022)

Greasylake said:


> All this talk about gas vs. Electric, when are we going to have the real conversation and revive the wood stove?


As someone that has worked with a purely wood fired grill at work, HELL NO!!


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## OldSaw (Jan 28, 2022)

I went from electric coils, to gas, to induction. I really enjoyed gas and greatly enjoyed it over coils. However, now that I have induction and have gotten used to it, plus all the new cookware, I would not go back to either gas or coils.

The only thing in my house that uses gas now is my boiler. It heats the whole house plus our domestic hot water. It is a high efficiency unit, so it is vented 100% to the outside. No gas smell ever.


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## M1k3 (Jan 29, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> As someone that has worked with a purely wood fired grill at work, HELL NO!!


I mean, the flavor was great. But sssoooo much work. Every 20-30 minutes or so, reach into the pit of hell with some logs. But make sure you move the food from just over where you're putting the wood first. Or where the smoke goes because the vent hood is wider than the grill so it flows up at an angle. And the pops!


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 29, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> I mean, the flavor was great. But sssoooo much work. Every 20-30 minutes or so, reach into the pit of hell with some logs. But make sure you move the food from just over where you're putting the wood first. Or where the smoke goes because the vent hood is wider than the grill so it flows up at an angle. And the pops!



We were just broke and the wood was free.


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## DitmasPork (Feb 2, 2022)

Greasylake said:


> All this talk about gas vs. Electric, when are we going to have the real conversation and revive the wood stove?


I’d love a wood burning stove, but they’re illegal in NYC.


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