# How to make your cocktails more fun?



## agp (Jan 3, 2021)

Hi all, home cook here, no professional gear - how do I make my cocktails more entertaining to guests? Aside from using dry ice or interesting shaped glassware, what can I do? Clear ice is a stable in the household. One thing I am doing now is making a caramel cage, which I first saw at the Machinist in Chicago. I also do some flavored/colored ice cubes. I know the Aviary does some edible bubbles too. Any other ideas?


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## WildBoar (Jan 3, 2021)

I personally think the flavors/ ingredients make a cocktail must more interesting than the embellishments. Herb combinations, fresh-squeezed juices, unusual ingredients, etc. all coming together with the liquors, etc. in a well-balanced drink.


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## TB_London (Jan 3, 2021)

Focus on flavour


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## alterwisser (Jan 3, 2021)

Double the alcohol


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## marc4pt0 (Jan 3, 2021)

Fresh herbs. Though you probably already do this. 
Good ingredients are key.
Try making your own shrubs and bitters? Frothy drinks using a little bit of Egg white always is fun. Think of non-common fresh ingredients like arugula (peppery) and celery (salty when juiced) and carrot (super sweet when juiced). Casia bark (cinnamon) torched with a glass over it to capture that smoky flavor, then use that glass to serve your drink in. 
Spicy peppers to add heat and color. And think of spices (not spicy, but _spices _like clove, peppercorn - tellicherry Peppercorns carry a wonderful cigar shoppe aroma). There’s an amazing Indian restaurant nearby that uses these types of spices in their cocktails. We were blown away. And think of classic Caribbean spices as well. Cinnamon etc. Dried fruits and fresh fruits.

But what really gets a positive reaction is a subtle surprise. Like a _sparkling _Manhattan. Secret twists that are discovered when consuming. Glassware and groovy garnishes are one thing, but a well made drink with a fun approach/twist is the real name of the game.

For the past 6 years we’ve been doing a jalapeño foam on our house margarita. It’s still the top seller. I’m not saying foams are the end all be all, but there’s still something to be had there. I’ve been wanting to get one of those thingys that makes any drink effervescent. I freaking love bubbles. And EVERY moment is a perfect moment for bubbles. That’s my secret to a better life.


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## stereo.pete (Jan 3, 2021)

The amount of work to get clear ice just doesn't seem worth it for the occasional home cocktail. Have you discovered an easy way, if so please share.


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## agp (Jan 3, 2021)

marc4pt0 said:


> Fresh herbs. Though you probably already do this.
> Good ingredients are key.
> Try making your own shrubs and bitters? Frothy drinks using a little bit of Egg white always is fun. Think of non-common fresh ingredients like arugula (peppery) and celery (salty when juiced) and carrot (super sweet when juiced). Casia bark (cinnamon) torched with a glass over it to capture that smoky flavor, then use that glass to serve your drink in.
> Spicy peppers to add heat and color. And think of spices (not spicy, but _spices _like clove, peppercorn - tellicherry Peppercorns carry a wonderful cigar shoppe aroma). There’s an amazing Indian restaurant nearby that uses these types of spices in their cocktails. We were blown away. And think of classic Caribbean spices as well. Cinnamon etc. Dried fruits and fresh fruits.
> ...



Ooh foams! Yes, I used to do a lot of that and infusing flavors into liquids, but isi cartridges are so expensive...


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## agp (Jan 3, 2021)

stereo.pete said:


> The amount of work to get clear ice just doesn't seem worth it for the occasional home cocktail. Have you discovered an easy way, if so please share.



Nope, I just freeze a cooler of water, and then carve it up. I don't use clear ice to mix the cocktail, only for serving. And even then I use it mainly for clear/light-colored cocktails.


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## btbyrd (Jan 3, 2021)

stereo.pete said:


> The amount of work to get clear ice just doesn't seem worth it for the occasional home cocktail. Have you discovered an easy way, if so please share.



If you search for "clear ice" on Amazon, you'll find a number of inexpensive tools to create clear spheres and cubes. They're basically mini-coolers with silicone molds in whatever shape that freeze overnight.


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## marc4pt0 (Jan 3, 2021)

ISI cartridges are fairly affordable on amazon, but unless you’re making a bunch of drinks I can see how it might be a bit of a waste.


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## MontezumaBoy (Jan 3, 2021)

marc4pt0 said:


> For the past 6 years we’ve been doing a jalapeño foam on our house margarita. It’s still the top seller. I’m not saying foams are the end all be all, but there’s still something to be had there. I’ve been wanting to get one of those thingys that makes any drink effervescent. I freaking love bubbles. And EVERY moment is a perfect moment for bubbles. That’s my secret to a better life.



I had a few of these at one of Marc's places & can speak highly of the foam ... peppery/hot/yummy ... maybe more than a few now that I think about it ...


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## stereo.pete (Jan 3, 2021)

Thank you @btbyrd and @agp for your recommendations.


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## damiano (Jan 3, 2021)

Vintage glassware. Different styles together. There is this guy on insta who does this a lot and I always like the looks.


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## agp (Jan 3, 2021)

Wahnamhong said:


> Vintage glassware. Different styles together. There is this guy on insta who does this a lot and I always like the looks.



Who is this guy?


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## McMan (Jan 3, 2021)

Progression of interesting cocktails:


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## damiano (Jan 3, 2021)

agp said:


> Who is this guy?


I was afraidyou would ask me that.. Let me check if I can remember his user name. Otherwise this is also a good sourcefor inspiration:






Login • Instagram


Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.




instagram.com





Edit: found him already..






Login • Instagram


Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.




instagram.com


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## agp (Jan 3, 2021)

Where do yall get your nice or fun cocktail glasses?


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## ecchef (Jan 3, 2021)

Lysergic acid diethylamide.


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## MikeO (Jan 5, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> I personally think the flavors/ ingredients make a cocktail must more interesting than the embellishments. Herb combinations, fresh-squeezed juices, unusual ingredients, etc. all coming together with the liquors, etc. in a well-balanced drink.





TB_London said:


> Focus on flavour





marc4pt0 said:


> Fresh herbs. Though you probably already do this.
> Good ingredients are key.
> Try making your own shrubs and bitters? Frothy drinks using a little bit of Egg white always is fun. Think of non-common fresh ingredients like arugula (peppery) and celery (salty when juiced) and carrot (super sweet when juiced). Casia bark (cinnamon) torched with a glass over it to capture that smoky flavor, then use that glass to serve your drink in.
> Spicy peppers to add heat and color. And think of spices (not spicy, but _spices _like clove, peppercorn - tellicherry Peppercorns carry a wonderful cigar shoppe aroma). There’s an amazing Indian restaurant nearby that uses these types of spices in their cocktails. We were blown away. And think of classic Caribbean spices as well. Cinnamon etc. Dried fruits and fresh fruits.
> ...



I would like to second all of this advice given above. A fancy looking drink in a nice glass with a nice or unique garnish is great, but it doesn't matter too much if the drink itself does not wow your senses.

I don't know what your cocktail experience is, or your age, interest/expense level; forgive me if I am covering your existing knowledge base. But, I recommend to anyone interested in getting into cocktails to start with the basics by learning a myriad of classic cocktails. I always suggest that they try and learn at least 1-2 classic cocktails for each base liquor variety. This allows you to get to know how to properly build and balance a cocktail between both the nose and pallet. I also often find that the vast majority of people have never heard of most classic cocktails despite being around for decades. The classics far more often than not gain much appraise from most people, and are often the core inspiration for many of todays newer creations and staples.

Ultimately you can learn a lot about flavor manipulation, combination and balance by gaining a really solid understanding of the classics. Other input I like to start out with includes:

1. When to stir and when to shake?
- If your cocktail is entirely or almost entirely made of spirits - say a dry/perfect martini, a Manhattan, a Negroni, etc then it should be stirred as the sugar content is relatively low and thus the drink only needs chilling and not much agitation to get a proper mixing of ingredients.
- If you're working with syrups and fruit juices then you want the agitation to make sure everything properly mixes while you chill it. In this case you should be shaking it.
- If you can, always use larger ice cubes for either prep. The greater the mass of the ice cubes, the more chilling you will achieve with less ice melt, and less watering down of your drink.
- Shaking ice causes the ice to chip into smaller pieces which also creates more water melt into the drink compared to stirring.

2. The 5 basic parts of a typical cocktail. This applies greatly when you're trying to come up with your own cocktail from scratch.
- 1. A Base liquor - gin, whiskey, tequila, rum, etc.
- 2. A sweet - this could be as straight forward/basic as a syrup (simple syrup, honey, agave or maple syrup) or using a sweet liqueur like sweet vermouth or an Amaro or Grand Marnier/Cointreau. It can even be a fruit juice like pineapple, orange, mango or papaya, etc.
- 3. A sour - generally a lemon or a lime juice, something with some acid. You can even get into shrubs or a 'drinking vinegar' which you can have fun making at home out of various fruit vinegars. You can also take a store bought vinegar - say maybe a rice vinegar reduced down with fresh pears or pear juice and maybe some spices to accompany a sake cocktail, for instance.
- 4. A bitter - generally an actual bitters like angostura or peychauds, walnut, orange, cherry, etc. But this could also come from a spirit like Campari or certain Amaro's or a Fernet, etc. Herb Tinctures often also fall into this category, though some can be less bitter and more singly herbaceous than others.
- 5. A modifier - This is something to make the drink unique and make it pop. The modifier can be something on its own, or a modification done to one of the other 4 ingredients to play on or against a flavor profile that it is already providing. It could be an infusion in the base liquor itself, like a jalapeno/habanero infused tequila in a margarita or maybe a rosemary infused simple syrup for a gin drink. It could be adding a pinch of cayenne to fruity sweet cocktail like something made with mango juice which might be too sweet on its own. It could be a foam like previously mentioned, or adding bubbles - sparkling water or some champagne like in a French 75, or smoking a glass before you serve a scotch based cocktail. It could also be a muddled herb or fruit or spice, or adding egg white for texture - a must add in a whiskey sour IMO. Basically, whatever your imagination can come up with!

3. Fresh squeezed juices can not be more underrated, they are a must. The difference in flavor you get from using fresh lemon or lime juice versus a bottled juice will make a night and day difference in your drinks. This is also true of orange, grapefruit and other fresh juices used in Tiki cocktails.

4. A cocktail should always come with some type of garnish that adds multiple layers to the drink, not just a visual aesthetic. I.E. It should make it pretty but also help the experience of the drink by adding a scent, a flavor or even a texture. The easiest and one of the best ways to achieve this is to use a citrus fruit peel that compliments what is in the drink - lemon, lime, orange, grapefruit can all work well in various situations. A simple squeeze/fold of the peel over the glass to release the oils with a quick rub around the rim of the glass really does wonders to open up the nose with a fresh note before the drink itself hits the pallet. Then take the peel and give it a twist or a cut to sit beautifully on or in the glass to add the pretty. I lean on citrus peels the most because they're the easiest to keep in supply at home. Creating your own rim garnishes is another easy one to play with and batch for long periods - infused/mixed salts with spices/peppers/herbs etc, the same can be done with sugars.

Ultimately there are exceptions to every rule, and many classic cocktails are all spirit cocktails and thus do not follow the 5 basic ingredient 'rule' in a straight forward way. However, learning the classics first is a great way to understand ratios and balance in a lot of great core spirits - both liquors and liqueurs. Once you have this understanding it makes it easier to conceptualize how flavors might combine together to make a cocktail that will really wow the senses and impress your friends/guests/clientele.

A little anecdotal background:
I bartended for many years through and after college and worked in and around DC at a few craft cocktail bars. One 'game' or challenge I always enjoyed giving to my guests at the bar was making them cocktails based around liquors that they would tell me they did not like, or couldn't drink because of too many bad experiences in the past. The majority of the time I would start them off with a classic cocktail that I would pick after asking them a few questions about what they like in a flavor profile - liquor forward versus not, sweet or bitter, spicy, do they like herbaceous flavors or not, fruity or sour? Etc.

The last place that I worked at I gave this challenge quite frequently and developed a lot of trust in my guests/regulars which in turn allowed them to be much more open with trying new things. It was a lot of fun on both sides of the bar and it broadened a lot of people's appreciation and range in cocktails. In the five-six months that I was there I quite honestly do not think I ever had someone send back one of these initial challenge drinks; despite offering prior to take it back and make them something they knew they already liked, free of charge, if they did not enjoy the challenge drink. And the majority of the time they ended up asking for an additional cocktail using that same spirit that they previously did not like.

I worked a lot of different types of bars over the years - fine wine, craft beer, and eventually craft cocktail. The same info I laid out above is what was taught to me when I first started in the craft cocktail scene, and it has served me and many friends that I have taught quite well in the years since. I still keep a home bar today and regularly play with new recipes and variations to the classics today. It is a great compliment to my passion for cooking and provides an added dimension to hosting people and being able to create pairings with the food I make.

Anyway, this got lengthy. I hope that you find it helpful. If you do not currently have much of a repertoire of classic cocktails I would be happy to make some recommendations from my favorites.

Cheers!


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## MikeO (Jan 5, 2021)

agp said:


> Where do yall get your nice or fun cocktail glasses?



There may be other options out there now adays, but I like the glassware that Cocktail Kingdom has. A good few sets of some Rocks glasses, Coupes, Collins, and maybe some Nick & Nora glasses is great to have around if you like to entertain a lot. If you only want to get one type of glass as an all-around glass I would say go for a Coupe style, they look elegant and give any cocktail an elevated look/experience.






Cocktail Glassware | Coupe, Rocks & Other Bar Glasses


Cocktail Kingdom offers a full spectrum of professional and custom barware, artisan bitters and syrups fit for the most discerning bartender. With knowledge as a bartender's most valuable tool, Cocktail Kingdom provides books of remarkable recipes and bar know-how spanning from pre-Prohibition...




www.cocktailkingdom.com





I would also highly recommend their cocktail gear. It is well made and the basic stainless variants are relatively innexpensive like the Koriko weighted shake tins. I have purchased many sets as gifts for friends, and the stainless steel set is only like $8.


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## damiano (Jan 6, 2021)

agp said:


> Where do yall get your nice or fun cocktail glasses?


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## boomchakabowwow (Jan 7, 2021)

how to make them more fun? for starters, dont drink them alone 

but seriously, cool glass and maybe cool ice cubes.


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## WildBoar (Jan 7, 2021)

@MikeO , that was a great write-up -- thanks for all the info!


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## marc4pt0 (Jan 7, 2021)

@MikeO I'll 2nd what David just said. I also see that you're in Silver Spring,. So you'll definitely need to join the next ECG roundup for sure.


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## AT5760 (Jan 7, 2021)

Reading this thread makes me think that I may have never had a good cocktail. Guess that gives me another post-'rona goal.


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## Mikeadunne (Jan 7, 2021)

ecchef said:


> Lysergic acid diethylamide.


was gonna say this


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## panda (Jan 7, 2021)

frozen grapes or watermelon as ice cubes. good club soda, fizz is always good. different flavored salts. 
fresh herbs for garnish (the smell really helps make it interesting)


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## panda (Jan 7, 2021)

also, make it weird. even if it ends up being a disaster, its atleast interesting and new.


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## Danzo (Jan 7, 2021)

tiki. Just be careful of the hangovers


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## WildBoar (Jan 7, 2021)

marc4pt0 said:


> @MikeO I'll 2nd what David just said. I also see that you're in Silver Spring,. So you'll definitely need to join the next ECG roundup for sure.


(and bring your portable bartender kit )


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## MikeO (Jan 7, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> @MikeO , that was a great write-up -- thanks for all the info!





marc4pt0 said:


> @MikeO I'll 2nd what David just said. I also see that you're in Silver Spring,. So you'll definitely need to join the next ECG roundup for sure.



Thanks gents! I had initially intended to just insert something short and sweet, but I have been meaning to reorganize a bunch of old notes and recipes and stuff because I am doing a 'cocktail class' for a friend of mine "soon." Aaanddd this thread was a great excuse to go ahead and sort of organize the introductory stuff, haha. 

I am thrilled that you guys find it helpful! Amazing drinks are almost as wonderful as amazing food, and one certainly compliments the other. Also definitely down for a meetup. Hopefully we can get back to socializing soon.

Andddd also I'm taking your appreciation as an invitation to provide another lengthy post. Teehee! 


In line with the original post, I also finally put together an 'Essential home cocktail kit' (again for upcoming class) soooo you can find it below if interested. All of the gear included is gear I used 'professionally' for several years myself, and it is what I still keep and use at home today. 

There are certainly some items that you can spend less money on where the quality does not matter as much - like stirring glass, muddler, strainers. But one thing I don't think anyone should ever skimp on are shake tins, jiggers, and stir spoons. I have used a lot of off brands and the weights, materials, and design is generally all over the place and never quite right. The Koriko stainers are my favorite because they always have a tight seal and an easy release, and you can't beat a stainless set for $8. Also the weighted bottoms is just a pleasure to use and play around with.

If anyone is actually going to purchase these I do recommend you stick to hand washing, they will definitely hold up longer; especially if you opt for any plated variants I.E. copper or gold. We did usually machine wash our jiggers/shakers/spoons and I never saw any issues, but it is plenty easy enough to hand wash at home. Also they were always stainless, which I'm sure is more reliable than the plated sets.

*Cocktail Gear Essential Starter Set: - ~$108*

_*- The following is the bare minimum to easily make both shaken and stirred drinks. And you'll look pretty damn good/pro while doing it.
- The Hawthorne strainer will adequately fit in both the top of your shake tin and stirring glass. 
- If you want to be extra fancy and funds are not an issue, you can get the additional Julep stainer below to go with your stirring glass.
- Muddler is also optional, but great to have if you like using fresh herbs/fruits E.G. Strawberry Mojitos or a classic old fashioned.
- Jigger style is preferential, the Leopold is my favorite for ergonomic reasons. Don't be afraid to check out japanese/cup styles. OXO also makes a great little 'bucket' style jigger that I also have and use fairly regularly.
- If you're on a tight budget (In which case I would probably say to just cut out cocktails in general cause booze be pricy) I recommend at least getting the first 3 items because, realistically, you can shake any cocktail in a pinch and it will come out pretty damn tasty if your ratios are right.*_

Shake Tins: Koriko Stainless - $8
Set of Two Koriko® Weighted Shaking Tins - Stainless Steel

Leopold Jigger - $19
Leopold® Jigger 1oz / 2oz - Stainless Steel

Hawthorne Strainer - $16
Koriko® Hawthorne Strainer - Stainless Steel

Barspoon - $18
Teardrop™ Barspoon - Stainless Steel / 30cm

Mixing Glass - $40
Yarai® Mixing Glass, Seamless - 550ml (19oz) / Flat Base

Mesh Strainer - $7
CoCo™ Strainer - Premium Mesh Cone / Stainless Steel

Optional: Add $40 for total of ~$148
Muddler - ~$13
Plastic - https://www.cocktailkingdom.com/all-barware/accessories-and-other-tools/bad-ass-muddler
Wood - https://www.cocktailkingdom.com/all-barware/accessories-and-other-tools/natural-wood-muddler

Julep Strainer - $27
https://www.cocktailkingdom.com/all-barware/strainers/wondrich-wilkinson-strainer


*Drink Recipes:*
I am going to be slowly recompiling/updating my cocktail recipe book over the coming days/weeks. I'll post a link once it is somewhat well organized. I found 3 separate lists but I think I lost my core 'book' somewhere in a HD/computer upgrade.... but I'll keep looking.

Cheers~


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## MikeO (Jan 7, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> (and bring your portable bartender kit )



Haha, just saw this. Yeah I can bring my rollup. I'm currently on a 1.5-2 month sober kick that I always do at the start of the year so hopefully a meetup happens closer to the summer so I won't be a rusty nail. Or... if it is sooner thennnnn I can make rusty nails to make up for it? 

Where do y'all usually do the meetups? Does someone host at their home, or a restaurant or what? And is it just Mid-Atlantic or greater area? I take ECG to be East Coast Gathering?


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## WildBoar (Jan 8, 2021)

The last few years I have hosted at my house in Alexandria. Before I started a KKFer in Arlington hosted one. And before that it was in PA for >5 years.

Realistically this will not happen in 2021 before late summer due to the virus and the likely speed of the vaccine rollout.

ECG is open to people from all over the country (well, all over the world actually). We've had forum members from Hawaii, California, Wisconsin, etc. attend, although the vast majority have been from a the mid-Atlantic area. We averaged ~25-30 forum members at the last few ECGs, plus spouses/ +1s that brought the totals into the low to mid 40s. It's an 'open-house' format, where the doors are open for 7-8 hours and people arrive and leave at whatever times work best for them.


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## orangehero (Jan 8, 2021)

MikeO said:


> *Cocktail Gear Essential Starter Set: - ~$108*
> 
> _*- The following is the bare minimum to easily make both shaken and stirred drinks. And you'll look pretty damn good/pro while doing it.
> - The Hawthorne strainer will adequately fit in both the top of your shake tin and stirring glass.
> ...



You can buy the exact same made in china stuff that cocktail kingdom sells on Amazon for a third of the price if not cheaper.


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## MikeO (Jan 8, 2021)

@WildBoar Right on, that sounds like a good time. How often were you guys hosting them before Covid? It would be cool to do a sort of potluck style one where (at least the local) people can bring a dish or something to share.



orangehero said:


> You can buy the exact same made in china stuff that cocktail kingdom sells on Amazon for a third of the price if not cheaper.



While you are correct about other Chinese made cocktail gear on Amazon for a substantially lesser cost, I have not once found it to be the same as what Cocktail Kingdom sells. And I have personally purchased a half dozen or so varying brands/pieces of gear in addition to using items which friends have bought. The weights are never right, the finishes are generally poor or inconsistent, the construction is flimsy and and I have only ever found one other shaker set that worked -close- to as well as a Koriko.

Not saying definitively that the same producer for cocktail kingdom doesn't sell the same exact gear under a different brand for a lesser price, but I have never seen it. If you actually know of one and have used it, I would love to get a link or two. Unless you're just talking about the $30-$40 "complete" cocktail kits?


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## orangehero (Jan 8, 2021)

MikeO said:


> @WildBoar
> Not saying definitively that the same producer for cocktail kingdom doesn't sell the same exact gear under a different brand for a lesser price, but I have never seen it. If you actually know of one and have used it, I would love to get a link or two. Unless you're just talking about the $30-$40 "complete" cocktail kits?



Well I haven't looked at the stuff in a while, but you need to use some judgment regarding what you order just as with all of the other chinese made crap. The first item that comes to mind is the bar spoon. You can get a two-pack of 12" barspoons on amazon that you won't be able to distinguish from cocktail kingdom for $10 or less. Also, you don't need a mixing glass, much less spend $40 on one. Yes I agree that cocktail kingdom is all quality stuff and it is pretty much the most expensive bar tools you can buy. Unless you're making some sort of commission by selling it to your students I don't see any reason to recommend it.

Here's my idea of essentials that will last a home user forever and allow them to make almost any cocktail:


https://www.amazon.com/CucinaPrime-Stainless-Steel-Bar-Piece/dp/B016MLH8RI/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=boston+shaker+glass&qid=1610135901&s=home-garden&sr=1-9




https://www.amazon.com/Hiware-LZS13B-Stainless-Pattern-Cocktail/dp/B07RSFNHBV/ref=pd_bxgy_2/142-7202935-6918331?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00IRY8CJ2&pd_rd_r=f83ec298-6908-4a25-89a7-860bce416cd1&pd_rd_w=hzYhw&pd_rd_wg=2fLb1&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=YR06J8P6YQ6C5SQ96XVM&refRID=YR06J8P6YQ6C5SQ96XVM&th=1



This looks comparable to cocktail kingdom stuff just need to buy a $5 muddler to complete the set:





Amazon.com: The Art of Craft Professional Bartender Kit: Stainless Steel Cocktail Shaker Set, Weighted Boston Shaker Tins, Hawthorne Strainer, Japanese Jigger, Home Bar Tool Set, Drink Mixing Set: Kitchen & Dining


Online Shopping for Kitchen Utensils & Gadgets from a great selection at everyday low prices. Free 2-day Shipping with Amazon Prime.



www.amazon.com


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## MikeO (Jan 8, 2021)

orangehero said:


> Well I haven't looked at the stuff in a while, but you need to use some judgment regarding what you order just as with all of the other chinese made crap. The first item that comes to mind is the bar spoon. You can get a two-pack of 12" barspoons on amazon that you won't be able to distinguish from cocktail kingdom for $10 or less. Also, you don't need a mixing glass, much less spend $40 on one. Yes I agree that cocktail kingdom is all quality stuff and it is pretty much the most expensive bar tools you can buy. Unless you're making some sort of commission by selling it to your students I don't see any reason to recommend it.
> 
> Here's my idea of essentials that will last a home user forever and allow them to make almost any cocktail:
> 
> ...



*Right, okay. So TLDR here:*

I'm not a rep for CK, and I'm not charging anyone for the classes or instruction I give. I just do it for fun. The list I put together is a reference point based on my preferences and experience and the fact that i can personally attest to their quality/longevity.

Like anything else in life there is a wide range of quality/price point and anyone is able to purchase to their own preferences. At the end of the day, if $60-70 of additional investment is not ideal then my friends or whomever is free to order whatever variants, or nothing, that they please. Personally, I think if an additional $70 is breaking your bank, you probably shouldn't pick up cocktails as a hobby as tools are by far the least expensive aspect.

Ultimately I am lending all of this input under the assumption that a given person is getting into cocktails because they entertain friends/family/people often; which also happened to be the sentiment provided by the OP. If that is accurate, I think most people like to have a higher quality of gear to entertain with. Obviously some people only value function and aren't bothered with form, which is also perfectly fine. I'm also assuming as we're on a knife enthusiasts forum that most people here have a decent chunk of disposable income.

*Where I disagree:*

As for not needing a stirring glass, I strongly disagree. Sure, if you're just making drinks for yourself you can get away with stirring in a pint glass, your shake tin, or any container that holds liquid for that matter. However, it is clunky and takes longer and you're going to get more ice melt because your ratio of warm booze to cold ice is far greater due to smaller volume. It won't chill as quickly or as well, and your drink 150% will not come out as balanced. A proper stirring glass will give you enough of a solid base that you will be able to stir with one hand and multitask with the other. Or, in general, just be more stable than using a shaker/pint glass/bowl/vase? Maybe not necessary at home, but it still provides a solid base for making drinks and also looks good. Yes, you can also find a less expensive stirring glass, which goes back to the aforementioned.

I think to make a blanket statement that you can get the -same- thing for less from amazon is just not accurate or fair. Yes certain items are reciprocal like the spoons, fine strainers, even some jiggers are close enough to be indistinguishable. I also bought a decent scalloped julep strainer years ago for ~$12 from Amazon. Muddlers are muddlers, and you don't need anything fancy (or at all which is why I leave it as optional). Realistically that is about it for close comparisons in quality. Again, form vs function vs price point. All subjective, but they're (shakers, hawthorne/julep strainers, glassware, etc) definitely -not- all the "same."


_*Other info and food for thought:*_

I don't know if you have any actual bar experience, but when you're making several hundred+ cocktails back to back over 6-12 hour shifts on a regular basis, the ergonomics and tactility combined with quality make a big difference. If you're a hobbyist and you're making a drink for yourself a few times a week, maybe a $40 investment for tools makes more sense than $110.

Cocktails are low impact, so anything will last a lifetime as long as you're not ridiculously and unnecessarily rough on your tools. I think this tends to make a better argument for making the additional investment/expense rather than not; as ~$70 is really quite miniscule over the course of a lifetime. Still, completely subjective. _But That money could damn near buy you 2 handles of Bulleit bourbon, man!!_

*Decent Amazon Kit:* For what it is worth - I purchased this exact kit to have a friend bring it down with them while I was in the Caribbean. I wanted an inexpensive set as my gear was packed away stateside (ended up gifting to an island friend when I moved back). The shake tin is the one I referenced previously which worked quite well: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GDBVYDJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

_The Pros:_ - Kit was only $56 when I purchased it. - The spoon, jigger, and fine strainer were great matches to CK gear. - The julep strainer, shake tin and muddler were pretty solid equivalents to CK gear. Not a direct match, but close.
_The Cons:_ - The tongs are absolutely unneeded for a home kit. - The hawthorne strainer is cheap and has a weak coil, lots of gaps on pouring. - Pour tops are cute, but also really not needed. - Ultimately you're still missing a stirring glass, so the julep AND hawthorne strainer is kind of redundant. - The Julep strainer is too small if you're working out of anything other than a pint glass/shake tin, the muddler is good, and decent enough, but a little short for muddling even in the small side of your shake tin or a pint glass.
_The Reality:_ - You can get the core of this kit - Koriko Shaker, Hawthorne strainer, fine strainer, Japanese jigger, and a muddler for $49 from CK.
- The spoon, julep, tongs, etc are unnecessary extras, especially if you're not going to invest in a stirring glass. You can use a butter knife or a kitchen spoon to stir a drink in your shake tin or some other vessel if you want to ragtag your stirred drinks.

Of course, you could also get the above set, order a ~$20 amazon stirring glass, and more or less have everything I have laid out for ~$70 vs. ~$118 (Adjusted for like to like items). Some things won't work as well together, but it will be fine for home use and it looks pretty good. And of course you save ~$50.


*I'll probably put a full write up/thread together with all of this info at some point, so thank you @orangehero for sending me through this exercise*


Cheers!


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## orangehero (Jan 8, 2021)

MikeO said:


> I don't know if you have any actual bar experience, but when you're making several hundred+ cocktails back to back over 6-12 hour shifts on a regular basis, the ergonomics and tactility combined with quality make a big difference.



I've made so many cocktails that I don't need a pourer much less a jigger to measure the volumes . Even for me spending an extra $70 on a cup a spoon and a strainer is a lot of money that in practice makes no difference whatsoever.


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## MikeO (Jan 8, 2021)

orangehero said:


> I've made so many cocktails that I don't need a pourer much less a jigger to measure the volumes . Even for me spending an extra $70 on a cup a spoon and a strainer is a lot of money that in practice makes no difference whatsoever.



BIIIIG DAWWWG. Haha, for sure man. I didn't mean to insult, didn't realize I was dealing with a true mixologist.


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## orangehero (Jan 8, 2021)

MikeO said:


> BIIIIG DAWWWG. Haha, for sure man. I didn't mean to insult, didn't realize I was dealing with a true mixologist.


No worries dawg the details will come with experience. Don't get too hung up on the gear.


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## WildBoar (Jan 8, 2021)

MikeO said:


> @WildBoar Right on, that sounds like a good time. How often were you guys hosting them before Covid? It would be cool to do a sort of potluck style one where (at least the local) people can bring a dish or something to share.


ECG is an annual event. We've been holding it in late April/ early May the last few years (except 2020). We usually schedule it on a Sunday. I think I hosted it four years, and Bill13 the year before that. And prior to that it was in PA (neither of those hosts are on KKF anymore).


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## MikeO (Jan 8, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> ECG is an annual event. We've been holding it in late April/ early May the last few years (except 2020). We usually schedule it on a Sunday. I think I hosted it four years, and Bill13 the year before that. And prior to that it was in PA (neither of those hosts are on KKF anymore).



Cool, well I'm definitely in for the next one. Do people bring their prized knives to show and share? That would be neat!


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## AT5760 (Jan 8, 2021)

I made a whiskey sour tonight. Baby steps . Fresh lime juice and peel. Carmelized sugar and two dashes of bitters.


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## MikeO (Jan 8, 2021)

AT5760 said:


> I made a whiskey sour tonight. Baby steps . Fresh lime juice and peel. Carmelized sugar and two dashes of bitters.



Well done! Try out fresh lemon juice next time and see how that compares to your taste preference. Then, if you're not afraid of egg, crack one open for the next round after that. You can do a 'dry shake' with the other ingredients + egg white added into the shaker without any ice. Shake it around for 10-15 seconds to help get the egg white emulsified. 

Other option is to use a fork or egg whisk to emulsify it before adding it to shaker. Then re-shake with your ice and pour. If you give it a nice rigorous shake you should end up with a really delicious and velvety smooth whiskey sour.


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## WildBoar (Jan 8, 2021)

MikeO said:


> Cool, well I'm definitely in for the next one. Do people bring their prized knives to show and share? That would be neat!


At least 5 or 6 KKFers will bring some parts of their collections to show. Figure well over 200 knives, from many different makers, and covering everything from pettys to sukis. Ans a few cutting boards out and some bags of onions, carrots, potatoes, etc. for trying some out. Some people may have a couple of their knives for sale. We also usually have a couple makers (Butch Harner has been a cornerstone!). And some KKFers who are chefs, although it's tough for most in the area to make a Sunday event. The food is always great, with many attendees bringing a dish. And that has been supported by some above-and-beyond efforts by Theory (Rick), who has done things like breaking down and grilling whole salmon, and setting up/ running a fried chicken line, and Bill13 dry-aging a strip roast several years in a row.

Here are some pics threads/ IG posts with pics: 2019 East Coast Gathering (ECG) - Sunday, April 7 in Washington, DC area




__





#kkfecg2019 hashtag on Instagram • Photos and videos


9 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from 'kkfecg2019' hashtag




www.instagram.com








__





#kkfecg2018 hashtag on Instagram • Photos and videos


14 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from 'kkfecg2018' hashtag




www.instagram.com





We've also traditionally hold a dinner on Saturday night if there is enough interest. We held a few of these at Zaytinya (Chef Costa is a KKFer). And one year Son (Sachem) brought a case of his pepper-spiced liquor "Native Heat". That ECG did not suck  

Guys from DC Sharp (District Cutlery) have been able to make many of these. We've also tried to draw in other people in the DC area who are not KKFers.


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## MikeO (Jan 8, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> At least 5 or 6 KKFers will bring some parts of their collections to show. Figure well over 200 knives, from many different makers, and covering everything from pettys to sukis. Ans a few cutting boards out and some bags of onions, carrots, potatoes, etc. for trying some out. Some people may have a couple of their knives for sale. We also usually have a couple makers (Butch Harner has been a cornerstone!). And some KKFers who are chefs, although it's tough for most in the area to make a Sunday event. The food is always great, with many attendees bringing a dish. And that has been supported by some above-and-beyond efforts by Theory (Rick), who has done things like breaking down and grilling whole salmon, and setting up/ running a fried chicken line, and Bill13 dry-aging a strip roast several years in a row.
> 
> Here are some pics threads/ IG posts with pics: 2019 East Coast Gathering (ECG) - Sunday, April 7 in Washington, DC area
> 
> ...



Wow, that sounds awesome. Thanks for the full breakdown and the link to last year, checking it out now. 

Will also need to look into Butch Harner. I'm not too familiar with the local/US makers yet.


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## WildBoar (Jan 8, 2021)

Lloyd Harner (@lloydharner) • Instagram photos and videos


1,412 Followers, 150 Following, 910 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Lloyd Harner (@lloydharner)




www.instagram.com





Butch isn't too far up the road from here -- just a little north of Fredrick, MD across the PA line. He does stock removal vs forging. He makes some great kitchen knives. For stainless steel, his XHP blades are top-notch. He has been working on a pretty involved pocket knife project this past year, but is still turning out some kitchen knives. His line knives are very popular. He also makes straight razors. I think he mainly sells through retailers now, but you can still reach out direct.


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## MikeO (Jan 15, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> Lloyd Harner (@lloydharner) • Instagram photos and videos
> 
> 
> 1,412 Followers, 150 Following, 910 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Lloyd Harner (@lloydharner)
> ...



Thanks for the info. I had to look up some info on stock removal, i wasn't aware that was the name of that process. Or, I suppose I wasn't aware that that was a process that was utilized for knives.

His straight razers are beautiful. And I see he has some very nice looking balisongs as well.

Back on topic - has anyone made any tasty beverages as of late? What ever happened to @agp ?! I'm curious to know if he finds any of this helpful or what direction he is talking in his cocktail journey.


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## WildBoar (Jan 15, 2021)

Hmmm, spent a week working through a coupe leftover bottles of premade cocktails from Zaytinya. Now I have a few bottles of premade drinks from Don Ciccio. I heard the other day (from a VERY experienced drinker) that their walnut Old Fashioned is amazing. I am trying their premade stuff to get a better idea of what I should be able to make myself using their amari and cordials.


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## GBT-Splint (Jan 15, 2021)

MikeO said:


> I would like to second all of this advice given above. A fancy looking drink in a nice glass with a nice or unique garnish is great, but it doesn't matter too much if the drink itself does not wow your senses.
> 
> I don't know what your cocktail experience is, or your age, interest/expense level; forgive me if I am covering your existing knowledge base. But, I recommend to anyone interested in getting into cocktails to start with the basics by learning a myriad of classic cocktails. I always suggest that they try and learn at least 1-2 classic cocktails for each base liquor variety. This allows you to get to know how to properly build and balance a cocktail between both the nose and pallet. I also often find that the vast majority of people have never heard of most classic cocktails despite being around for decades. The classics far more often than not gain much appraise from most people, and are often the core inspiration for many of todays newer creations and staples.
> 
> ...


Cheers for the lecture mate, I can feel your passion through your writing


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## MikeO (Jan 15, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> Hmmm, spent a week working through a coupe leftover bottles of premade cocktails from Zaytinya. Now I have a few bottles of premade drinks from Don Ciccio. I heard the other day (from a VERY experienced drinker) that their walnut Old Fashioned is amazing. I am trying their premade stuff to get a better idea of what I should be able to make myself using their amari and cordials.



I assume Zaytinya the mediterranean joint in DC eh? So are they premaking them at the restaurant for sale, or premaking somewhere else and they're batched in glass bottles?

I have yet to have a prebatched cocktail in a sealed glass bottle that has been good. I have had some premade cocktails for take away from restaurants due to Covid that have been quite good though!

Also how about Don Ciccio? I just picked up a bottle of the Ambrosia (like a grapefruit based campari but a bit sweeter) and Amaro delle Sirene around christmas. They are interesting. Really enjoy the Ambrosia from first tasting, I am unsure about the Amaro. It is very bitter, which is fun and enjoyable. There is something on the back end and finish that I am unsure if I like. But I haven't played around with them too much and am looking forward to ending my sober time out in late Feb/march to experiment.

Should we make a general cocktail drink/recipes/sharing thread? Or just let this be the one?



GBT-Splint said:


> Cheers for the lecture mate, I can feel your passion through your writing



Thanks brother, I appreciate that. I'm planning to build out what I have posted here with the rest of my 'class curriculum' into a cohesive post for a new thread at some point.

On a somewhat related side note - I was also thinking about if there is a database for japanese (plus any notable knife makers around the world) blacksmiths/knife makers with a reference and breakdown and basic information on everyone? I should probably search around the website to check, but that would be a really cool tool to create for us and the world. Not to mention help spread more knowledge to the average consumer.


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## MikeO (Jan 15, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> Hmmm, spent a week working through a coupe leftover bottles of premade cocktails from Zaytinya. Now I have a few bottles of premade drinks from Don Ciccio. I heard the other day (from a VERY experienced drinker) that their walnut Old Fashioned is amazing. I am trying their premade stuff to get a better idea of what I should be able to make myself using their amari and cordials.



Also, what are your go to base spirit(s) for cocktails? Amaro's are probably my favorite standalone behind whiskey, tequila/mezcal and rums, so I've always enjoyed using them in cocktails.


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## WildBoar (Jan 15, 2021)

MikeO said:


> I assume Zaytinya the mediterranean joint in DC eh? So are they premaking them at the restaurant for sale, or premaking somewhere else and they're batched in glass bottles?
> 
> I have yet to have a prebatched cocktail in a sealed glass bottle that has been good. I have had some premade cocktails for take away from restaurants due to Covid that have been quite good though!
> 
> Also how about Don Ciccio? I just picked up a bottle of the Ambrosia (like a grapefruit based campari but a bit sweeter) and Amaro delle Sirene around christmas. They are interesting. Really enjoy the Ambrosia from first tasting, I am unsure about the Amaro. It is very bitter, which is fun and enjoyable. There is something on the back end and finish that I am unsure if I like. But I haven't played around with them too much and am looking forward to ending my sober time out in late Feb/march to experiment.


Yes, that's the zaytinya. The head check is here on KKF. They make them at the restaurant when go to pick up your food. They do it with 3-4 of their signature cocktails..

Don Ciccio makes a full range of amari from very bitter to a little on the sweet side. I picked up 8-10 bottles of different stuff a few months back. The range is so wide that not all are suitable for a particular cocktail; that's why I was interested in trying our some of their premixed stuff. They are very local and worth a visit (it's right near Union Market, on Okie Street -- which is where Profish/ DC Smokehouse are located). I think they restart the tasting room/ bar after the extended shut-down ends in another week. They are represented pretty well at restaurants/ bars around the DC area. In fact, once restrictions are lifted it would be a good place for a small KKF gathering)


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## MikeO (Jan 15, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> Yes, that's the zaytinya. The head check is here on KKF. They make them at the restaurant when go to pick up your food. They do it with 3-4 of their signature cocktails..
> 
> Don Ciccio makes a full range of amari from very bitter to a little on the sweet side. I picked up 8-10 bottles of different stuff a few months back. The range is so wide that not all are suitable for a particular cocktail; that's why I was interested in trying our some of their premixed stuff. They are very local and worth a visit (it's right near Union Market, on Okie Street -- which is where Profish/ DC Smokehouse are located). I think they restart the tasting room/ bar after the extended shut-down ends in another week. They are represented pretty well at restaurants/ bars around the DC area. In fact, once restrictions are lifted it would be a good place for a small KKF gathering)



That would be fun. I picked up the two bottles I have at The Roost market type deal off offffffff 14th and Penn? During the holiday DC maker's fair they had. They had a pretty wide array from Don Ciccio and I was wishing they had some tasters offered.

The UM area would be great in general, we plenty of places to hop around to for food. Plus we could stop by District Cutlery and oggle some knives after/before as well.


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