# For Sale - 240mm Martell Yo-Gyuto CPM-154



## Dave Martell (Oct 23, 2015)

*Stats*

Length - 240mm

Height (at heel) - 55mm

Steel - CPM-154 (powdered stainless)

Hardness - Rc61-62

Handle Style - Western 

Handle Materials - Dyed Spalted Maple Burl, nickel silver bolster (soldered!), nickel silver/G10 spacers, with a mosaic pin


The dyed maple used is flat out crazy looking and that's mostly because it's spalted (look it up) and with this comes a less stable wood that has some surface imperfections. I don't expect any issues with this handle because it was stabilized by K&G but being what it is (spalted wood) you will want to consider this factor before purchase. Also, the handle is slightly thinner in width than I normally make , please see pictures below.

Nickel silver bolster is soldered on for a solid fit with a clean look. I found that it's not as easy to solder to stainless as it is carbon steels. This gave me some fits but in the end it got done and I'm happy for having pressed forward when I wanted to turn back.

This steel, being new to me, gave me a hard time in getting it finished to my normal levels, and to be truthful, it still has some wispy lines that I'd have preferred to rid it off but just couldn't. 

The blade profile is very much my own yet this one is done more towards what I'd call a "rocker", vs what I normally do that I call "flat n fast". The difference is super slight but I want you to know what you're getting.


*Because of this being my first knife completed in this steel, and taking into consideration the above issues I noted that came as a result if this as well as the wood choice, I'm going to call this one a practice knife (a 2nd) and sell it "_*as is*_".


Price - *$525 *(shipping included to USA - international to pay actual costs)
_*Note - this same knife will cost about $100 more in the near future._


If you're interested in purchasing this knife please contact via PM or email along with your Paypal email address (for the invoice). If international, please specify country.

Thanks for looking!

Dave


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## Dave Martell (Oct 23, 2015)

Here's a picture I snapped just before I started grinding on this knife...


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## apicius9 (Oct 23, 2015)

That's what I will want from you if I ever win the lottery.... Nice work!

Stefan


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 23, 2015)

I really, REALLY Like the look of this one, Dave! You've outdone yourself once again!


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## Dave Martell (Oct 23, 2015)

apicius9 said:


> That's what I will want from you if I ever win the lottery.... Nice work!
> 
> Stefan




I thought that you'd want a 270mm?


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## Dave Martell (Oct 23, 2015)

marc4pt0 said:


> I really, REALLY Like the look of this one, Dave! You've outdone yourself once again!




Thanks Marc


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## Dave Martell (Oct 23, 2015)

*SOLD*


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 30, 2015)

So here we go. Maybe this is the right place to do this, maybe it's not. Haven't a clue but undoubtedly you'll let me know.

I purchased this knife. I also purchased a Martell gyuto off of BST back in 2013(?) from a respected member here. Dave was kind enough to offer a quick fix up on the knife so it was sent to him first. I never saw it, except in pictures. Dave informed us that there were issues and supplied pics to show it. He was a bit at odds with how to proceed but in the end he generously offered to replace the knife. He didn't want an inferior knife with his maker's mark out in the wild. This was more than what the seller and I had anticipated, and obviously we thought this was pretty nice. 

There's more to the story, but it doesn't really bare much meaning here. The only real _negative_ aspect of it is Dave is very busy and we're still waiting on the replacement. But we really don't have much to complain about.

(Disclaimer: I'm not going to post our PM exchanges as I believe they are called Private for many reasons. That's not something I'd do without consent first at least. So I'll just be sharing the gist of our correspondence) 

Enter today- I have had funds set aside in paypal, away from the wife's view, for a knife. I'll admit it, I'm a bit of a junky when it comes to buying knives. So I keep spare change set aside for a knife that just happens to really catch my "wants". Yes, I have issues. One of which is my flooded basement. But an addict will always be an addict. And there will _always_ be that "rainy day" that needs funding.

I've been wanting a Martell gyuto for a while, and there's really no way of telling when I'd get the replacement so I thought I'd pick this one up. It's his first stab at stainless, I believe? But it looks cool. I see his warnings as to why it's sold as a "second", but the pics look solid so I hit him up and send funds. After all, my experience with Dave as a customer has been pretty stellar, and he's made it clear to me that he doe's not want an inferior product out there with his name on it. Plus I had the chance to use another "second quality" knife which he sold in December of last year, the one with an all black buffalo horn handle. I thought he was crazy to call that one a "second".

Delivery was more than quick and I received it Monday (I have my knives delivered to work). I open it up and see that the handle is more than just "slightly thinner in width than I normally make". I take it out and brunoise a carrot real quick. Cuts like a dream, like I expected. I hit Dave up that evening to let him now I got the knife and I thought the handle was pretty small.
I told Dave I'll give the knife more time to see if it grows on me, and I did just that. Come Tuesday evening I shot Dave a PM asking him what the options were if I did indeed find the handle too small. I told him that the knife was starting to grow on me, and even asked about maybe getting a Carter re-handled just so I could have one of his famous handles the way they are intended to be.

I believe this is where the fall out started. He replied and seemed kind of upset, then I got upset and replied. Basically my response boils down to "as is" can imply many things. Dave says his sell thread clearly states no returns. I believe otherwise. At this point I never actually asked for a refund (full or partial), I only wanted to explore options.

Today I posted in a thread about another maker. Dave posted insults in response (towards me). He also told me to post in his sub forum (I believe he means here?), and to quote "have your day in the court of public opinion". So I'm doing just that. 

I'm not going to throw about insults here, or at least make a darn good effort at it, and I'm hoping Dave can give a solid shot at this as well. I get why he got upset, as the post I left in the other thread just happened to fall under his most recent post in the same thread. Bad timing. I typed, then took a call, then hit submit. His post wasn't even there when I hit the post button. But that doesn't really matter. What matters here is basically the public opinion on whether Dave should offer a refund or return/exchange. Please keep in mind that I have _yet_ to ask for either. And at this point the knife has indeed kind of grown on me. But now it's riddled with bad juju, and I don't want to think about this mess every freaking time I use it. Yep, I suppose I could just sell it and wash my hands of everything. But when someone stoops to insulting me in public, I much rather work it out. Hopefully.

So now the facts:

The handle where in meets the metal bolster/ferrule is about 15mm thick. 
The thickest part of the handle is about 18mm. 
The handle is about 21mm tall at the bolster
The handle is about 25.5mm in the middle.
I don't own calipers, so I use a tape and an app that has been on point thus far.
I'm tall and lanky, and I have long lanky fingers on hands that easily palm a basketball. So what might not seem small to some will often seem small to me.


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 30, 2015)

I'll also add that what Dave and I consider to be "clear" may differ. I think details like measurements and pictures could have been supplied, in order to be _clear_. I also think that Dave should have stated "no return, no refund". Again, just to be _clear_. I think from a business standpoint he chose not to state this as it may have not sold as quickly as he wanted. I can totally understand that thought.

Maybe I'm wrong here. Obviously i don't think so, but could possibly be swayed into thinking otherwise.


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## Talim (Oct 30, 2015)

When you buy "as-is" then return/refund is thrown out the window. That's like buying a used car "as-is" then trying to return it to the seller because your butt don't fit well in the seats.


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## WildBoar (Oct 30, 2015)

damn, that's probably reaching a bit. When you buy a used car you get to lay your hands on it, sit in it, test drive it, etc. before pulling the trigger.

I consider both Marc and Dave to be friends of mine, and I seriously hope this can be settled quickly and amicably. I'm willing to offer up either a block from my wood stash or one of my two stockpiled rehandling coupons.


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## Dave Martell (Oct 30, 2015)

marc4pt0 said:


> Dave says his sell thread clearly states no returns.




Let me start with the above statement. I never said that. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Now my take on this issue....

This knife was sold "*as is*", sold as a 2nd quality, a practice knife, with all issues pointed out (including the handle being smaller than normal) and sold at a discounted price. To me this says that there's problems. I mean there are problems listed in the sale thread and the knife has a *bold red disclaimer *attached that it's a practice knife, a 2nd quality, and is sold at a lower price than what is normally asked. This all says that there's issues!

Never did the buyer ask for measurements of the handle (or knife) pre-sale. The handle size being listed as smaller than normal didn't appear to play into his concerns until he received the knife and wanted to return it.

So now the knife is *used*. What can I do with a used knife? Clean it up, lose more money, re-work the handle - lose more money, and then try to sell it again as a 2nd that's now used also? The reason why I didn't do all that in the first place was because I made the decision to not lose more money - to cut my losses and sell the knife as a 2nd quality with all issues being brought forward in full disclosure. I never thought for a second that a buyer would come along, ignore all the warnings, ignore the "*as is*" disclaimer and assume that they would have a right to test drive the knife and make a decision on whether or not to keep it - after the fact - after it's been used! 

I will not take any more loss on this knife, no, it's unfair to ask me to do so. If the customer wanted to take a knife for a test drive then he picked the wrong knife to do that with. He should have purchased a 1st quality at full price because then he'd have a leg to stand on. 

Marc purchased a 2nd quality knife that he had high expectations for, he overlooked the warnings or discounted them, and now has buyer's remorse. He wants me to fix his problems for him and yet I can't - I won't.

I feel very strongly about this matter and this is why I'm talking about this in public, risking bad press, etc. Sometimes a person has to do what they feel is right even if it hurts. Unfortunately this may be one of those times.


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## brainsausage (Oct 30, 2015)

Far be it from me to set ANY type of precedent, but I find it bad form to discuss this on a public forum. It reeks of 'taking sides', and will do little IMO to resolve the issue at hand. I think we all get a bit too comfy on here at times, and forget that we're not all hanging out in our living room enjoying a heated discussion among friends.


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 30, 2015)

Dave, by saying this: "I never thought for a second that a buyer would come along, ignore all the warnings, ignore the "as is" disclaimer and assume that they would have a right to test drive the knife and make a decision on whether or not to keep it", you will be the only one _assuming_ anything here. (sigh)

I clearly asked you what my options were if I decided that the handle was too small for my liking. There were several routes you could have taken. Instead you chose to be curt, which turned into aggressive and insulting. Not once did I take this approach with you prior to your response. Heck, I was even trying to give you more of my money and business. 

But now you've decided to throw name calling into the mix, on the forum, which thankfully moderators chose to delete. (Thank you mods).
I saw the pictures you posted of the knife, and they looked good. I saw the mention of the handle being "slightly thinner in width than I normally make" and looked back at the pictures. Still looked good to me. I recall using another "second" that you sold and thought "still good". I admit I should have asked for measurements. Totally should have. I might have still bought it anyway. There's trust here. I didn't for a second think you would have possibly exaggerated on the "_slightly_ thinner" part. (Now before you go jumping off on me for saying that, I'm not accusing you of exaggerating in your thread. But once I received the knife I thought "slightly" might have been a stretch)

When I PM'd you with my initial thoughts you could have said something along the lines of "how much did you use the knife?" if you were so concerned about taking a used product back (which at this point, or ANY point, I wasn't asking you to take it back). But you didn't. Instead your response was something like "hope you don't get cramps from using it". I chose to get past that remark and still maintained a level demeanor in my next reply. 

When I asked you what my options were, I genuinely wanted to know what my options were. Yes, return could have been one. Re-working the handle at my expense could have been another. I never said I _wanted_ you to fix anything. 

And let me correct you on yet another thing(s)-

"Marc purchased a 2nd quality knife", this is correct
"that he had high expectations for" this is also correct. Show me someone who doesn't have High Expectations after spending $525. Please. Show me.
"he overlooked the warnings or discounted them, and now has buyer's remorse", incorrect. I didn't overlook anything. Like you said, it was in Red Type, so kind of hard to miss. Oh, and I didn't have buyer's remorse until this crap show blew up. Thanks, Dave.
"He wants me to fix his problems for him", again, never asked this of you.

Dave, this mess you've created could have, and most likely _should_ have been done through PM. I believe that's one of the many reasons it's there for. However you decided to air out your dirty laundry in public view. I don't think that's too savvy, but I can't really point fingers as here I am doing the same I suppose. Only I feel I'm trying to defend myself here, and you _did_ tell me to "be a man" and go to your sub forum with this. At this rate I seriously doubt this will get settled. I no longer have trust in you, and I most certainly don't expect that replacement knife you promised in 2013. This sucks, Dave. I know you're going through some rough times, but you should NEVER take it out on us. Especially the ones who are repeat paying customers.


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 30, 2015)

brainsausage said:


> Far be it from me to set ANY type of precedent, but I find it bad form to discuss this on a public forum. It reeks of 'taking sides', and will do little IMO to resolve the issue at hand. I think we all get a bit too comfy on here at times, and forget that we're not all hanging out in our living room enjoying a heated discussion among friends.



I'll agree with this. Historically when I see these heated discussions I just turn away. Alas, here I am. Dammit. Makes me look like an idiot.


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## Godslayer (Oct 30, 2015)

brainsausage said:


> Far be it from me to set ANY type of precedent, but I find it bad form to discuss this on a public forum. It reeks of 'taking sides', and will do little IMO to resolve the issue at hand. I think we all get a bit too comfy on here at times, and forget that we're not all hanging out in our living room enjoying a heated discussion among friends.



We aren't all friends  :sad0:


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 30, 2015)

And let me add this as well. Today was a light work day. So I packed light as well. My bag had 3 knives- One trusty Haburn, one trusty Bloodroot and this new Martell. Plus a veg peeler.


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## JDA_NC (Oct 30, 2015)

Since I have no bias in this entire thing - here's my take (for anyone that cares):

Taking such a hard stance, and urging that the matter be taken public, is a really, really bad look & move for a knife maker to do. Especially one who has been open about his struggles and is trying to get the ball rolling again.

If I had posted a knife on BST, with full honesty in its condition, and someone decided to buy it off of me -- that's one thing. I would be just like Dave if they tried to ask for a return.

But I don't make knives for a living or repair/restore/rehandle/sharpen them. And it wouldn't be something that I made, stood behind, and sold -- second quality/practice knife or not.

That's not to say that I feel like a full refund, or anything close, would have been necessary. But let's be honest y'all. $500+ ain't cheap. To anyone. That's premium knife money as far as I'm concerned. You could buy a wide variety of knives with excellent F&F, steel, and grinds for that kind of coin.

This idea of knives being like a car - in the sense that they can never be "new" once they're rolled off the lot - is also a little out there for me. It's one thing if the knife had been heavily used and sharpened (in, say, a professional setting) and there were serious changes in its profile & geometry. But even if a return happened - the worse you would have to do in this situation would probably be a quick touch up on its polish/finish.

I know for a fact that I've seen vendors here list a knife, sell the knife, and I've seen the knife be posted in someone's collection, only to be returned, relisted on here, and then resold. Without any notice that any of that had transpired. These are pieces of metal that molded into shape to cut things. As far as I'm concerned, NEW only pertains to the knife's finish and meeting the makers' standards in profile/grind. Not that it's never had contact with food or a cutting board. Who cares?

All in all, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


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## brainsausage (Oct 30, 2015)

Godslayer said:


> We aren't all friends  :sad0:



Even friends get on each other's nerves at times. I've had close to fist fights with buddies, about stupid crap, and we worked it out.


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## SousVideLoca (Oct 31, 2015)

Marc, I think we'd all agree that Dave can be a snippy little bastard sometimes--that kinda goes without saying, some of us are just wired that way--but bottom line and all superfluous dirty laundry aside, the knife was sold "as is" and a clearly marked as a second. What were you expecting "your options" to be? 

If they weren't "resell it on B/S/T" or "pay full price and wait in line like everyone else for further work on it," you might have been kidding yourself.


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## WildBoar (Oct 31, 2015)

Seems the issue was Marc wanted to discuss options with Dave M., so you may be jumping to conclusions a little to quickly.

I read the ad for the knife, and frankly I would have taken the "2nd" as being Dave not happy with the level of finish on the blade and that the spalted wood had some minor issues. I definitely would not have taken away a handle that was undersized by more than just 'slightly' :dontknow: also, when a "2nd" isn't priced that much less than a "1st" it implies (to me, at least) minor and/ or cosmetic issues. Adding in the price of a rehandle would put this knife above the cost of a "1st", yet the level of finish, etc. would still be at what Dave considered "2nd" level.


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## SousVideLoca (Oct 31, 2015)

> Seems the issue was Marc wanted to discuss options with Dave M., so you may be jumping to conclusions a little to quickly.


What other "options" were there, that didn't involve Dave taking some sort of loss on a product he clearly sold caveat emptor? 

I read the ad too. To me, it said _don't buy this knife._


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## easy13 (Oct 31, 2015)

I agree on the fact that if this knife had so many issues then why is the price so high and close to a first quality piece. I also think Dave's tone and arrogance towards the buyer is pretty frikin lame and definitely dissuades me from ever doing business with him.


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## SousVideLoca (Oct 31, 2015)

> if this knife had so many issues


The one and only issue with the knife, as mentioned in the walls of exhaustive text in this thread, is "the handle is too small."


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## easy13 (Oct 31, 2015)

SousVideLoca said:


> The one and only issue with the knife, as mentioned in the walls of exhaustive text in this thread, is "the handle is too small."





sold as a 2nd quality said:


> bold red disclaimer [/B]attached that it's a practice knife, a 2nd quality, and is sold at a lower price than what is normally asked. This all says that there's issues!



"issues" "problems" that is plural


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## JDA_NC (Oct 31, 2015)

SousVideLoca said:


> The one and only issue with the knife, as mentioned in the walls of exhaustive text in this thread, is "the handle is too small."



And the handle material might cause issues down the road. And it's Dave's first knife done in this steel (who nails something the first time they do it? Not many...). And it wasn't finished (polished) to the level he would like.

But those big pages of words are exhausting, huh buddy...


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## Talim (Oct 31, 2015)

JDA_NC said:


> And the handle material might cause issues down the road. And it's Dave's first knife done in this steel (who nails something the first time they do it? Not many...). And it wasn't finished (polished) to the level he would like.
> 
> But those big pages of words are exhausting, huh buddy...



Marc's issue with the knife was that the handle was too small. He had no issue with everything else.


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## WildBoar (Oct 31, 2015)

Talim said:


> Marc's issue with the knife was that the handle was too small. He had no issue with everything else.


exactly.


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## SousVideLoca (Oct 31, 2015)

easy13 said:


> "issues" "problems" that is plural



Oh I forgot, Dave also said the finish was a little "wispy." 

Which the buyer didn't mention at all in his complaint, and was never a point of contention among either party. So let me rephrase: the one and only issue with the knife, that anybody directly relevant to the issue cares about, is the handle.

My bad!


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## easy13 (Oct 31, 2015)

Apology Accepted


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## brainsausage (Oct 31, 2015)

I knew this would be a good idea!


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## malexthekid (Oct 31, 2015)

SousVideLoca said:


> Oh I forgot, Dave also said the finish was a little "wispy."
> 
> Which the buyer didn't mention at all in his complaint, and was never a point of contention among either party. So let me rephrase: the one and only issue with the knife, that anybody directly relevant to the issue cares about, is the handle.
> 
> My bad!



There are many options a seller can take in this scenario...

Remake handle at their/purchasers cost?
Refund the purchase. . 
Blah blah.

And also. "As is" in no way defines no refund. It just means you purchase in as is condition.


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## JDA_NC (Oct 31, 2015)

Talim said:


> Marc's issue with the knife was that the handle was too small. He had no issue with everything else.



My response was mostly to the smarmy tone. But Dave himself said this knife wasn't the strongest representation of his work. 'If he had bought a first rate knife, he might have a leg to stand on.' 'Not this knife.'

It is what it is. If people feel these knives are worth the price tag, they'll pay. For him to act like that to folks who support his work is pretty surprising. I've never felt they were worth the price tag and I certainly don't now...


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 31, 2015)

Dave mentioned the blade profile being a slight rocker, not his normal flat and fast. I don't think he mentioned it as an issue, but either way it appealed to me. He did mention he couldn't get the finish he normally likes to achieve on the blade itself, sighting some wispy lines. Maybe it's the screens of my 4k laptop, or my tablet, but I couldn't see these lines. So I figured these were just tiny imperfections that Dave, a seeming perfectionist, was seeing as something bigger than what they really are. Or the lines were something that a regular Joe like myself wouldn't mind. And yes, I did take in account that pictures don't always tell all when viewed through a monitor. In reality there are some light wispy lines, but nothing outrageous. My ITK I got straight from Devin has more wispy lines than this knife does, as do several other "first grade" knives I've bought from respected makers. So I don't see this as an issue.
Another issue Dave stated was some surface imperfections on the handle. I still don't see those. So again, I don't see this as an issue.

But Dave does instruct us, as the potential buyer, to see the pics below when referring to the slightly thinner than normal handle. So I did. The pictures don't really show how small the handle actually is. If instructing one to look at pictures to see just how small the handle is, I think it would be important to provide pictures to show just how small it _ really_ is. Or put something up next to it as a reference. At the time of the post, only one person knew just how small the handle is. That would be the same person who directed us to look at the pictures, the same person I trusted with $525. 

Sous vide, you mentioned that outside of 2 options I just might be kidding myself. Maybe you're correct. Or maybe Dave could have said something like "dude, you've bought from me before a few times, and I like repeat customers. If I throw a re-handle coupon at you, or refund you a couple bucks, or paint you a pretty picture of puppies and rainbows, would this get us square?" There were plenty of options that could have been offered.

I bought a stone holder from Dave back in 2012 I think. When I received it there was a large crack in the rubber base. I shot Dave a pm informing him and he promptly replied with an apology. He then replaced it free of charge and even let me keep the defected one. That's Grade A customer service. And that's what I've come to expect from Dave. Hence why I decided to inquire what my options were. Something I think Anybody would have done.


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## SousVideLoca (Oct 31, 2015)

malexthekid said:


> "As is" in no way defines no refund. It just means you purchase in as is condition.



Wat. From eBay:



> It is widely known that "As-Is" means that the bidder can't expect anything but what is described in the auction. Be sure to reflect the "As-Is" status in your return policy. *Usually, when an item is sold "As-Is", it also means there can be no returns.*


I mean, it's kinda like a thing most people know man. "As-Is" carries an implication of "no returns, bro," from flea markets to online warehouses. 

But that's beside the point, right? Marc wasn't really looking for a return - he wanted to explore options. My question is, what sort of options are there _really_, that don't involve Dave taking further loss on something he already marked down $100 and sold clearly "as-is."


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 31, 2015)

^^ maybe he could've offered me a good joke or a fun magic trick rather than insults? I don't know...


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## ecchef (Oct 31, 2015)

Enough is enough. Take it to P/M please.


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