# Buying a new set of stones...



## rickg17 (Jun 10, 2018)

OK, so I have a beginning set of j-knives (a TF nakiri, Wakui gyuto and Tadafusa petty). I'll likely get more in the future but it's time to get real stones (so to speak...). Way back when, I was using old German stainless knives and they dulled easily so I grabbed a Messermeister 1000/3000 combination stone (this one https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VEJQFWS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20). It works.... but I dislike the 1000 side which feels very 'gritty'. The 3000 side is fine so I could just use that as a part of a new sharpening regimen or I could just forget this stone entirely and start over.

So - What 2 or 3 stones would you get for someone with basic technique down but who's still a beginner at sharpening? I'm thinking maybe a Chosera 1k and... something else?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 10, 2018)

A three stone set of coarse, medium, and fine grits, plus something to flatten them is a good foundation. 

If you are looking for soakers, the classic Beston 500, Bester 1200, and Suehiro Rika 5000 is a good basic, relatively inexpensive set. For a big step up in quality for not a lot more money, the Gesshin 400, 2000, and 6000s (https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...s-and-combo-stones/products/gesshin-stone-set) is what I would recommend. 

The Chocera series of stones seem to be having a resurgence on the forums. I've never been a fan, but YMMV. If you want splash-and-go stones, the JNS 300, 1000, and 6000 are much better than the Choceras, in my opinion. (http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/synthetic-stones/).

Rick


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## slickmamba (Jun 10, 2018)

I'm at the same place as you and was split between the chosera 800/1000 and seems that majority of people prefer the 800, with the set being 400-800-3000 and a 6-8k finisher if you want it.


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## rickg17 (Jun 10, 2018)

Yeah, I'm unsure of why I'd need a 400 atm. I can see it if/when I thin my knives but they're all new, so I'm leaning toward the 800/3k to start and maybe the Pure Snow or Kitiyama finisher eventually. 

One thing I didn't mention above - I'm a home cook, not a pro.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 10, 2018)

rickg17 said:


> Yeah, I'm unsure of why I'd need a 400 atm. I can see it if/when I thin my knives but they're all new, so I'm leaning toward the 800/3k to start and maybe the Pure Snow or Kitiyama finisher eventually.
> 
> One thing I didn't mention above - I'm a home cook, not a pro.



Most people mistakenly believe that the 400 is only for thinning, but it is invaluable for setting a new bevel, not to mention repairing a chip in the edge.


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## sac36555 (Jun 10, 2018)

Im was in the same boat and went Chosera 800 first, then Chosera 3000, now about to pick up at Chosera 400. The main reason I went Chosera was because I needed splash and goes for my limited time for sharpening. I have heard great things about the JNS stones as well, but I have no experience with them.


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## StonedEdge (Jun 10, 2018)

I would say that what ever you do, get a good rough grit stone (300-400ish) for those pesky cheapo stainless knives and moderate thinning work. It will save you higher grit stones and you'll save time when putting a fresh edge on a knife from scratch.


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## Marek07 (Jun 10, 2018)

rickg17 said:


> Yeah, I'm unsure of why I'd need a 400 atm. I can see it if/when I thin my knives but they're all new, so I'm leaning toward the 800/3k to start and maybe the Pure Snow or Kitiyama finisher eventually.
> 
> One thing I didn't mention above - I'm a home cook, not a pro.


If by "Pure Snow" you mean the Naniwa 8k Junapaku (aka Snow White) stone, I can only say don't consider it. I'm no expert and admit some out there like it a lot. I'm not one of them. May I suggest you read this thread: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...niwa-Junpaku-aka-Snow-White-for-sale-at-Buyee I totally agree with Badgertooth's assessment. 
As to the Kitayama... excellent choice and cheaper too!


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## daveb (Jun 11, 2018)

I've found it to be entirely workable for the coarse stone to be S&G while med and fine are soakers - if you can perma-soak them. You'll use the coarse much less frequently and it can be the odd man out. My favorite coarse stone is the JNS 300, the JKI 400 (a soaker) is a close second. 

Perma soaking does not work for me right now so I use S&G across the board. I have and like the JKI Gesshin 1 and 6K diamond plates, 1 and 6k JNS stones and a JKI 1/6K combo that I keep at work. 

I think I just bought a JKI 4K soaker and will add a 2K soaker (the best stone ever) soon. I like the feedback with them more than S&G and will have to deal with the less convenient drying.

Once you have a working set, then you'll have to dip your toe into the naturals.


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## Marek07 (Jun 11, 2018)

daveb said:


> Once you have a working set, then you'll have to dip your toe into the naturals.


Despite Dave's experience and wisdom, I'd caution you against dipping your toe into naturals. Once your toe's wet, it's rather hard not to take a full body plunge.
:scared4:


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## rickg17 (Jun 11, 2018)

OK so the combo stone I have is a soaker and it seems to be OK after an hour or so in water. Is that not the case for more serious soakers, i.e. do they need to be soaked for much longer to be OK?

@Pensacola Tiger - It turns out I have to order online anyway as no one local carries the Naniwa stuff (weird). I'll probably get a 400 or so eventually but the knives are all new so unless I screw something up I don't need to set new bevels or do any repairs in the near future. But I'll definitely circle back and get one - if nothing else the thread has convinced me to do that. 

Can I ask why you like the JNS stones vs the Chosera?

All - keep in mind that I'm relatively new to sharpening (and all of my sharpening to date has been on the German stainless stuff I've had). So ideally I'd like stones that make it easier to get a feel for what's working, etc. Or is that a silly thing to expect?


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## rickg17 (Jun 11, 2018)

daveb said:


> Once you have a working set, then you'll have to dip your toe into the naturals.



GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN!

One more noob question - is the difference between S&G and soakers simply preference? Any difference in effectiveness or feel that is attributable to that?


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## mc2442 (Jun 11, 2018)

I think 30 minutes is normally good for soakers. No bubbles and then it is just how you think they feel.


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## HRC_64 (Jun 11, 2018)

rickg17 said:


> One more noob question - is the difference between S&G and soakers simply preference? Any difference in effectiveness or feel that is attributable to that?



The "problem" with soaking stones the drying...more so than the soaking.


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## Matus (Jun 11, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> The "problem" with soaking stones the drying...more so than the soaking.



This. To dry a soaking stone will take several days. But if you can permasoak them, than do not have to deal with neither soaking, nor drying. Since I started to permasoak stones (as most if my stones happen to be soakers), I have much less resistance to sharpening because I do not have to deal with drying in our not-large-enough kitchen


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 11, 2018)

rickg17 said:


> @Pensacola Tiger - .
> 
> Can I ask why you like the JNS stones vs the Chosera?



Strictly personal preference based on the "feel" of the stones while using them. Some people really like the feel of Chocera stones; I don't. To me, they feel a little "gummy". Buy what makes you happy, though. As Fred (the owner/moderator of the long defunct FoodieForums) was fond of saying, "Grits are grits".


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## frog13 (Jun 11, 2018)

Matus said:


> This. To dry a soaking stone will take several days. But if you can permasoak them, than do not have to deal with neither soaking, nor drying. Since I started to permasoak stones (as most if my stones happen to be soakers), I have much less resistance to sharpening because I do not have to deal with drying in our not-large-enough kitchen



This is my thought process also, so my permasoak and S&G stones get much more use than the short term soakers. My short term soakers get used if I have a plan ...... sharpening several knives I have time to plan ahead and drop them into water ahead of time ..... even on a single knife, full progression, I will often drop the Kitayama 8K into the basin when I start so it is ready when I finish. But for touch ups and such, so nice to reach into the designated permasoak basin and just pull out a stone and go ......... just me, YMMV.


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## Consequence (Jun 28, 2018)

I recommend jki or jns 300. to pair with chosera 800/1k, 3k. Then a kitayama 8k for finish if you need.

Ive got two jki 300 stones brand new, if you are interested check out my post or pm me


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## masibu (Jun 28, 2018)

The chosera stones were my first sharpening stones from about 5-6 years ago but I wouldn't have them as my top pick. I didn't particularly enjoy using them unless they were soaked for a bit (which took me ages to figure out) and eventually my 5k started cracking due to less than ideal drying situations as I really didn't know any better (i put it outside to dry). I do kind of regret selling off the 1k and 3k as I've been testing a lot of stones recently but not enough to buy them again (still have the 5k). 

The snow white is in a similar mould to me as the choseras and it took me a while to find the sweet spot. You find some comments on it being rather glassy (which is a similar problem to the 5k) but soaking it does help with this subpar feedback (to me at least) when using it as a splash and go. Does it work as a splash stone? Of course it does but you sacrifice feedback and a bit of slurry by doing so. It also makes a difference using them freshly lapped (i personally use a coarse atoma) to get a slurry kickstarted if you are doing more than just microbeveling. Diamond plates or naguras..either is fine for me so far although the diamond plate gives me more consistent results and flattens at the same time.

For a home cook... I would probably look towards another line of stones though. I found that starting out that I really needed/wanted stones that were less finicky and more consistent. I was already trying to learn how to properly sharpen and throwing in another variable with these stones being a little bit thirsty (but dont like too much water), making sure they werent drying too quickly.. telling them they were pretty sometimes etc just made them a pain in the arse. The stones made it harder for me to work out which issues were skill based or preparation based and I was using my knives professionally. For a home cook that doesn't need to maintain their blades as regularly and will get less practice you might be disappointed. Having something that feels consistent is pretty important so sharpening becomes less of a chore and hopefully becomes something therapeutic as it can be for me.

I personally prefer soaking stones however you may prefer splash stones seeing as you will likely be sharpening less regularly. The shapton pro 1k stone is a fast cutting medium grit stone (I would liken it more as ~700 grit) that feels pretty good in use. It isnt recommended to be soaked however I did prefer the feel if I left it soaked for a couple minutes before hand (but it isnt really necessary)

My favourite splash n go finisher ive used so far is the super stone 2k, which behaves more like a 3-4k which again can be used as a splash n go but feels better if soaked for a little before use. It is a much softer stone than the shapton pros. I used to use this as my main touch up stone at work. It leaves a mirror like finish if you're into that sorta thing but the main advantage is the clean edge it leaves rather effortlessly whilst still leaving a degree of tooth to the edge. I preferred this stone to the chosera 3k although you probably won't find many people with the same opinion. It's been the most beginner friendly stone I've used so far and is pretty much my benchmark for a 3k stone. I use sigma power 2/3 now and have been playing with naturals and comparing other similar grade stones all to this one stone but I still think this stone is the winner for me so far. If you want a quick touch up without a full sharpening this stone seems to respond positively to a quick honing when used stropped dry as well. Over time this does load the stone though.

These two stones should provide the majority of your sharpening needs although a coarse stone will be nice in due time. I've been trying out a few lately and the king 300 is a good pick. Its quite hard and pretty much ideal for fixing chipped edges etc. Not so great at thinning though in my use so far if you need to do substantial work. I would liken it to the beston 500 without the soaking and thirst issues. Its a good stone for sharpening cheap stainless knives as well if you decide you want extra practice.

If you're open to soaking stones the beston 500-bester1200--rika 5000 is tried and true and are also good stones for starting out. All of them can be permasoaked and feel good in use. I might add an 8kish stone down the line just for kicks if you really wanted to but the ss2k and rika 5k both leave respectable edges relatively easily. If you end up trying the ss2 and like the results the ss5 takes it a step further and feels similar in use. This same stone could be used following the rika 5k for similar results despite the stones having the same grit rating. The ss leaves a noticably finer finish, I would dare say its very close to the snow white in regards to polish but feels smoother in use to me, especially if soaked for a couple minutes before use.

I wasnt expecting to make a post thing long. Hopefully you've got the information you need!


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## Ilia (Sep 8, 2018)

rickg17 said:


> OK, so I have a beginning set of j-knives (a TF nakiri, Wakui gyuto and Tadafusa petty). I'll likely get more in the future but it's time to get real stones (so to speak...). Way back when, I was using old German stainless knives and they dulled easily so I grabbed a Messermeister 1000/3000 combination stone (this one https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VEJQFWS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20). It works.... but I dislike the 1000 side which feels very 'gritty'. The 3000 side is fine so I could just use that as a part of a new sharpening regimen or I could just forget this stone entirely and start over.
> 
> So - What 2 or 3 stones would you get for someone with basic technique down but who's still a beginner at sharpening? I'm thinking maybe a Chosera 1k and... something else?


Chosera-well suited for highly alloyed steels, I think in your case, you can do more budget series...


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## Ruso (Sep 8, 2018)

I really like JKI soakers. I have 3 of different grit, really nice series. I have no doubght that other’s stones from Jon are very good as well.


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## nakneker (Sep 8, 2018)

There are so many good stones, several good three stone combos. I went a little nuts on stones this year. Started down the j knife rabbithole 7 months ago and stones followed. I bought several brands just because I like to try them out personally and form my own opinions. A few combos I like if I was gonna limit myself to three stones would be.

Shapton Glass 500, 1k, 5k. Compact stones that are true splash and go stones and travel nicely. They also do well on some of the harder steels to sharpen.

Chosera 400, 1k, 3k. The Chosera 3k is one of my favorite stones, great feedback and fast results, lighten up the pressure and you’ll be able to get a 4-5k edge off that stone.

Cerax 320, 1k, 5k. Cerax have become some of my favorite stones along with the Suehiro Debados. Softer stones that produce mud easily and give good feedback and nice results. Make sure you flatten these stone often, they dish easier than most.

If your just looking for one three stone set it would be tough to beat the shapton Glass Stones. Fantastic all around stones. IMO


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