# is all stainless cladding equally difficult to thin?



## labor of love (Jul 15, 2014)

So without quesion san mai carbon clad knives are the knives that Ive found to be the easiest to thin and remove metal. Even though I often prefer the benefits of stainless clad carbon I dont like the extra time on the stones it usually takes to thin them. I recently have been using a stainless clad gyuto which seems to be really easy to remove steel/thin behind the edge during my sharpening sessions. Is this possible or is it in my head?
Is all stainless cladding equally a PITA to thin or are some easier than others?


----------



## Mrmnms (Jul 15, 2014)

Curious which stainless clad you found easier to thin. Softer cladding on the stainless?


----------



## Benuser (Jul 15, 2014)

Soft stainless may be very abrasion resistant, and clog stones.


----------



## labor of love (Jul 15, 2014)

Benuser said:


> Soft stainless may be very abrasion resistant, and clog stones.



as opposed to?


----------



## mkriggen (Jul 15, 2014)

All my knives with SS cladding suck to thin.

Be well,
Mikey


----------



## Benuser (Jul 15, 2014)

labor of love said:


> as opposed to?


carbon steel


----------



## labor of love (Jul 15, 2014)

Benuser said:


> carbon steel



Ok well thats a given. Im curious about the various types of stainless cladding and if there is a noticeable difference in ease of steel removal/thinning.


----------



## osakajoe (Jul 15, 2014)

Are you saying you have mcusta zanmai knives? 

But no not all stain resistant steel are equally the same. They all have different quantities of chemicals in them that add to their attributes. 

Such as with the zanmai hybrid series. They use a vg10 steel (C 1%, Cr 15%, Mo 1%, V 0.2%, etc.). So depending on what steel and it's composition can add to its strength, hardness, rust resistance, edge retention etc. 

For example carbon is added to steel to make it harder. If I had an AUS 10 and AUS 8 knife the AUS 10 knife would take a tad bit longer to thin because it has a carbon content of 1% as opposed to 0.8% 

This is why powder steel knives are a pain to sharpen but once you've invested the time to get your edge it will keep that edge for a long time.


----------



## osakajoe (Jul 15, 2014)

And not sure if you meant San Mae, as in three layers. Meaning clad on each side with a different core steel

Head over to zknives to look up steels and their different compositions 

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php


----------



## labor of love (Jul 15, 2014)

osakajoe said:


> Are you saying you have mcusta zanmai knives?
> 
> But no not all stain resistant steel are equally the same. They all have different quantities of chemicals in them that add to their attributes.
> 
> ...


are you discussing stainless knives core steel? Thats not what Im asking about. I just want to know if there are types of stainless cladding that are easier to thin/remove steel than others.


----------



## labor of love (Jul 15, 2014)

osakajoe said:


> And not sure if you meant San Mae, as in three layers. Meaning clad on each side with a different core steel
> 
> Head over to zknives to look up steels and their different compositions
> 
> http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php


I meant san mai. As in San Mai laminated blade construction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cutlery


----------



## osakajoe (Jul 15, 2014)

Both. It doesn't matter if I'm talking about cores, cladding or single material knives. What matters is the composition of the steel. 

So if your knife says stainless steel clad, that's just being general. Not all factories make it exactly the same but are usually pretty close in composition. You may notice it's easier to thin one than another and that goes back to what I said about steel composition.


----------



## jared08 (Jul 15, 2014)

^^he's rather correct. Depending on the size, quantity, and variable of what element forms the carbides in a stainless greatly determines its wear resistance. Hence being easier to thin on one vs another


----------



## labor of love (Jul 15, 2014)

osakajoe said:


> Both. It doesn't matter if I'm talking about cores, cladding or single material knives. What matters is the composition of the steel.
> 
> So if your knife says stainless steel clad, that's just being general. Not all factories make it exactly the same but are usually pretty close in composition. You may notice it's easier to thin one than another and that goes back to what I said about steel composition.



Im aware how the composition of the steel effects its characteristics. Im also aware that stainless cladding is a general term. So are you confirming that there is drastically different stainless steel compositions for different stainless clad knives? Or not so much? Thats basically my question. I have noticed that some stainless clad knives are much easier to thin than others(metal removes quicker, less stone clogging) and Im curious as to why this is.


----------



## rami_m (Jul 15, 2014)

So the question to me means 

What's the steel composition of the cladding in San Mai. Not easily found info I think. But I am no expert.


----------



## labor of love (Jul 15, 2014)

Mrmnms said:


> Curious which stainless clad you found easier to thin. Softer cladding on the stainless?


:whistling:


----------



## labor of love (Jul 15, 2014)

rami_m said:


> So the question to me means
> 
> What's the steel composition of the cladding in San Mai. Not easily found info I think. But I am no expert.



Not quite. Steel composition isnt the only factor.


----------



## rami_m (Jul 15, 2014)

What else? Heat treatment ?


----------



## mkriggen (Jul 16, 2014)




----------



## JBroida (Jul 16, 2014)

mostly, its not that hard... the vast majority of stainless cladding is pretty soft. Its a bit gummier feeling and a tiny bit slower than many soft carbon cladding, but not a huge amount.


----------



## labor of love (Jul 16, 2014)

It just occurred to me that maybe the new stone Ive been using for thinning may just be that much more badass than the stones I used to use for thinning stainless cladding....


----------



## cabarete_cub (Jul 16, 2014)

From Wikipedia:


> Slightly hardening the steel may decrease its gumminess and make it easier to cut.
> AISI grades 303 and 416 are easier to machine because of the addition of sulphur and phosphorus.[10]


----------



## dmccurtis (Jul 16, 2014)

I've never found any stainless cladding to be difficult to thin, just unpleasant. Like Jon says, it feels gummy, and tends to load stones more.


----------



## PushCut (Jul 16, 2014)

labor of love said:


> It just occurred to me that maybe the new stone Ive been using for thinning may just be that much more badass than the stones I used to use for thinning stainless cladding....




What stone are you thinning with now and what ones have you used for thinning in the past?


----------



## labor of love (Jul 17, 2014)

Well, in the past Ive used bester 500, naniwa, gesshin, chosera, noob-ba-tama several diamond plates and several other stones. Right now Im using something I got from toolsfromjapan and its faster, cheaper, clogs less, has better feedback than what most of us are used to in low grit stones. The only downside seems to be that the stone itself has very little binder Im guessing because it wears a little faster than the average stone.


----------



## osakajoe (Jul 17, 2014)

PushCut said:


> What stone are you thinning with now and what ones have you used for thinning in the past?



+1  Curious to what stones they are


----------



## panda (Jul 18, 2014)

can anyone answer the actual question at hand? i really hate stainless cladding purely because it feels awful and takes longer, double fail.


----------

