# quality knife recommendations from bed bath beyond, thoughts?



## neabue (Nov 29, 2016)

Hi everyone,

We got a bunch of Bed Bath & Beyond gift cards for wedding, and hoping to purchase some nice knives from them but have been going in circles picking some out. I initially wanted a matching set, but finally got over that and just want two quality knives that I'll use most. I am thinking something like a wusthof ikon, but reading about it people seemed to recommend a Japanese knife like a shun instead, then when I read about those people complain about edges chipping, etc.., so then I start considering the german knives again! Maybe try one of each?

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
8-9" Chefs, 5-6" Petty

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
neutral

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
8-9" Chefs, 5-6" Petty

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Yes

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
300ish - have lots of gift cards to Bed Bath and Beyond, so limiting purchases to their selection!


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home cooking

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Mostly for slicing variety of vegetables, trimming & slicing meats , and occasionally fruits like pineapples, apples, watermelons

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
A garbage Walmart knife block set, and a Henckels International 6" utility knife (which opened my eyes to better knives, so I'm excited to go to the next level!)

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Hammer grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Hmm, probably mostly slicing or push cut. 

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Pretty much everything- but mostly better sharpness, style, and overall quality
I do like the Damascus look, but not a high priority. Good stain resistance is a must have, & prefer something that looks nice though 

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Comfortable handle is a must. I feel like if I don't like the way a knife feels I will tend not to use it as much

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
As long as I can learn to shapen, it's not as important. Anything will be a step up from what I have now.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Wood acacia cutting board & plastic. 

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
I did pick up a combination sharpening stone (800/3000 grit from amazon), hoping to learn to sharpen myself, also considering a high end chef's choice motorized sharpener that got good reviews (I know these are commonly frowned upon here though)

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, interested in learning to sharpen myself. Planning to use my current henckels utility to learn to sharpen on the whetstone

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
I am willing to, yes.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I've been using a cheap henckels' international 6" utility knife for everything at the moment, looking to expand to a nice quality chefs & petty, will later purchase a cheap bread & paring. My wife is not the best at taking care of said current knife, so want something fairly durable (definitely stainless) but I have educated her for the new knives to not go in dishwasher, and should be cleaned/dried soon after use. 

My initial thought is to get a wusthof classic ikon 8" chefs knife and either a 5-6"" Miyabi artisan/fusion utility/prep knife, or kramer essential 5" utility.

Does this sound like a good solution? Any better recommendations given the limitation to BBB? With Wusthof, Henckels, Shun, Messermeister, Yaxell, Kramer, Miyabi, etc it's a lot for a newbie to go through! BBB doesn't carry these in store, only online, and there are not many other stores near me to go check them out in hand either, but BBB does have a good return policy. Wusthof and Shun are not included in their 20% off coupon, so bonus points for the others! Thanks in advance for any advice, I'm already learning a lot from this site!


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 29, 2016)

first, congrats to the nuptials.

second, congrats to NOT wanting a knife set.

i think i could survive just fine forever with a 10" chef, a paring knife and a bread knife. having said that, i LOVE my Wustof Classic 10" chef dearly..(loved it more before i found this cursed forum )


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## johnstoc (Nov 29, 2016)

Zwilling Kramer 8" essential would be worth a look. Try to get your hands on it, bit of a unique profile that could be love/hate. I love mine in 52100, as so many others here.


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## ThEoRy (Nov 29, 2016)

Look at the Bob Kramer knives. https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/st...nch-chef-39-s-knife/1041259399?Keyword=knives if you don't mind carbon that is.


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## daveb (Nov 29, 2016)

You could do worse than a gift card Shun. Though I would point you at a good toaster oven or pressure cooker or some such and send you elsewhere for knife shopping.

When all is said and done I think most will cede that Shun makes a decent knife, most are German style with Japanese steel, they are grossly overpriced, they are not easy to maintain - that fancy faux dammy will look like crap if the knife is sharpened properly. They get the reputation for being chippy because most users will treat them like the softer German's they are used to and misuse may cause chipping. For example, steeling is fine for a German knife - even encouraged to maintain sharpness. Steel that Shun, even with the Shun steel, and you may well cause chipping.

If you've got to burn those cards on knives, the 8" Classic, the 5" Utility and the 3" paring don't suck. I have had the utility (a Petty in Jspeak) and it works very well for trimming and removing silverskin. The paring actually gets some love here. I don't try and keep up with who sells what lines but the Premier is a little jazzier than the Classic.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Nov 29, 2016)

What brand is that whetstone? Not the tiny Anself oilstone?

If in doubt, get a king/sun tiger 1k/6k stone. Messy but gives good results and is great value for money.

Wusthof is controversial here, many consider it overpriced, most would agree that you will need to do some whetstone work (changing the edge angle to a few degrees more obtuse and/or applying a microbevel and/or smoothing out the edge shoulders - all these could be frustrating for somebody inexperienced with whetstones) more or less straight after unpacking.

If you like "slicing and push cuts", working from the wrist instead of tip-resting-on-board, you want harder knives, japanese cutlery is good for you. I'd say look at the Miyabi Birchwood (SG-2 steel, also called MC63 in Miyabi/Henckels code...). Consider Santokus, but not the hollow edge ones (they are unneccessarily thick by simple physics  ).

That kind of knife *will* get damaged if you rock chop/mince with force appropriate to pumping a vehicle jack, pry, hack at bones, or bash things with momentum  But it will stay sharp far longer if used with "slicing and push cuts".


That applies to the Yaxell, to all the Miyabi lines, they use similar steels as the Shun (mostly 60 and up on the rockwell C hardness scale (HRC). that is "upper medium hard" regarding cooking knives. 52-55=soft and tough, 56-59=modern western, 60-63=japanese,64-69=know-what-you-are-doing-if-buying-this* ) and are designed for similar usage styles.

*yes, I know, wildly inaccurate, but given as a simple orientation.


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## gic (Nov 29, 2016)

definitely kramer essential line


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## bennyprofane (Nov 29, 2016)

+ 1 for Kramer Essential (if you want stainless), very easy to sharpen and takes a great edge. Imo, the AEB-L steel is much nicer than the Shuns VG10 and is not chippy at all. The handle also feels really nice in the hand. If stainless is not important than the Carbon ones are also really nice.

Here are the stainless:

https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/st...nckels-essential-8-inch-chef-knife/1044480271

https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/st...els-essential-5-inch-utility-knife/1044480257

Here are some pics of mine:


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## richard (Nov 29, 2016)

Yes I would recommend looking at the Zwilling Kramer and there are also some compelling prices on most of Miyabi 8" chef knives with the current promotional pricing on them (+20% off with coupon). Also while Shun is listed on the coupon exclusions, the store near me has no problem taking them.

@bennyprofane: some very nice pics!


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## daveb (Nov 30, 2016)

Did not know BBB offered the Z Kramer. Might use one of those 20% off coupons one day.

No love for the Miyabi.


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## neabue (Nov 30, 2016)

Thanks for the input so far everyone!

Sounds like the Kramer's are getting a lot of love. I really like the look of their 5" utility, and the chef's knife does have an interesting look, but having never used a proper chef's knife before am not sure how it would compare, though I could probably get used to the wide blade & profile. I think I would prefer stainless steel line- easier maintenance and lower price seems like a win-win. Our BBB's only carry Henckel's in store, so can't really check them out in person or try to use the coupon on anything else in store... What are the advantages to the carbon line? 

The current whetstone I have is a cheap one from amazon, here's the link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HFI2KIE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 would this work with these nicer knives or would I need to upgrade?


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## neabue (Nov 30, 2016)

Well it looks like they are out of stock for the 8" kramer essential and carbon chef's knives. I could go for the 10" essential, but that seems like it might be more knife than i need...

The Miyabi Artisan & Fusion chefs knives seem like a decent deal for the price + coupon. If the Kramers don't become available, would these be a good alternative, or why no love for the miyabi's? How would those compare against the shun premier line? It sounds like these would both be better choice than the wusthof? Thanks again!


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## richard (Nov 30, 2016)

The ZK Essential 10" is a great workhorse, but the weight and balance of it make it less "fun".

As for the Miyabi Artisan and Fusion, I use the Artisan 8" as one of my short workhorses (but it's a thin workhorse) and usually it's my travel chef knife. The higher edge retention of SG2 instead of VG10 is really appreciated there (and also the fact it's not that expensive for me to replace, heh). I would recommend that one over the Fusion personally and the Shun Premier personally.


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## bennyprofane (Nov 30, 2016)

neabue said:


> Well it looks like they are out of stock for the 8" kramer essential and carbon chef's knives. I could go for the 10" essential, but that seems like it might be more knife than i need...



I'll trade you my 8" essential for a 10" :biggrin:


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Nov 30, 2016)

The whetstone is likely OK enough to be OK at being OK. The grits are OK. It being a waterstone not an oilstone is also GOOD.

There is little love for Global, Shun and Miyabi here because we all see them every time we visit a kitchen store, and have grown tired of them  And since BBB is kind of a kitchen store too, it follows that we will find everything they have boring


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## tienowen (Nov 30, 2016)

How about Kikuichi knife, their history way more than any Japanese knife at BBB sale right now, I saw couple sushi chef use their Yanagi as well.


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## strumke (Nov 30, 2016)

If youre set on BBB, definitely kramer or miyabi. World of difference from the various german style brands.

Kramer would likely be a better knife, but miyabi is in the right spectrum as well. Go and try them both though, they are quite different 'feel-wise' (Kramer is a taller knife, feels heftier from the weight)


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## richard (Nov 30, 2016)

Eh in general avoid Kikuichi, they are mostly overpriced rebrands from other makers.


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## neabue (Dec 1, 2016)

Unfortunately i'm limited to BBB, with more store credit than I know what to do with right now! But I'm sure they will be more than adequate for my needs and developing skills- and will probably open up a an expensive kitchen knife addiction, especially if i keep reading this forum! This is all new to me so these higher end 'kitchen store' knives don't seem boring at all (at least not yet) 

Since the 8" Kramer chef's knives are OOS at the moment, I'll probably consider the Miyabi line for a chefs. Would the SG2 steel in the Artisan lines make it more or less robust than the Fusion knives with the VG10? I probably don't have the best techniques, so don't want to get something too high end that i might damage too easily... I thought I read that their birchwood knife is a bit thinner, so am leaning towards one of the other two for now. They both look great to me...

Would the 5" Kramer essential be big enough for a petty knife? I feel like closer to 6" might be preferable, but really do want to try one of the Kramers!

There is a Sur La Table & William Sonoma I'm planing to check out tomorrow in Cincinnati to see if they have any of the knives in store to check out before I make any decisions- but if they don't have them in store, or they all feel good in hand, it'll probably just come down to your recommendations! Thanks again!


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## Lucretia (Dec 1, 2016)

I have the 5" Kramer in carbon, and we like it so much that we got a second for my husband so we wouldn't have to share. Very useful for a lot of tasks.


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## richard (Dec 1, 2016)

Both SG2 and VG10 can chip, but compared to some SG2 knives, I don't consider the Artisan as easy to damage, and is still somewhat friendly to new users of J-knives


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## malexthekid (Dec 1, 2016)

richard said:


> Both SG2 and VG10 can chip, but compared to some SG2 knives, I don't consider the Artisan as easy to damage, and is still somewhat friendly to new users of J-knives



Huh. SG2 is chippie. ***.

For starters any knife can chip when mistreated. Yes high hardness knives will tend to chip as their method of failure as opposed to more ductile failure in softer blades. But you still have to hit it hard or torque it hard to do that.

For what it is worth I chip my cheap scanpan knives a lot more readily than any other knife I have. The only time I have chipped one of my SG2 knives (a ryusen blazen) was when i accidentally hit the edge against my sink while cleaning.


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## neabue (Dec 1, 2016)

Lucretia said:


> I have the 5" Kramer in carbon, and we like it so much that we got a second for my husband so we wouldn't have to share. Very useful for a lot of tasks.



haha, that's what I was hoping to hear. thanks for sharing!


Also, just saw the Yaxell Gou and Shun Blue Steel on BBB's site, are those worth considering as well or should we stick with the Kramer & Miyabi's?

I realize these harder steels are more prone to chipping than softer ones, just hoping to find the sweet spot! Still learning a lot though!


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## richard (Dec 1, 2016)

Yaxell Gou is a nicely made knife, but the handle is quite heavy (more so even than Shun or Miyabi, typically a bit on the handle heavy side). Heard some nice things about Shun Blue, but I've not tried one. But that it's not stainless and have less typical profiles may possibly make it not a great match


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 1, 2016)

Global isn't wrong for EVERYONE (yes, not superperformers - but a lot of pros seem to think they are OK!), so I would suggest looking into these too if a hybrid european/japanese is wanted.


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## guari (Dec 1, 2016)

Most of the knives listed here as suggestions (Kramer, Global, Shuns, etc) will be a massive improvement from the typical soft German steel and will surely fit the bill. Best bet is to go grab them and see how they feel in your hand. Better make good use of the coupons you already have.

I have a couple Shuns I received from my dad and yes, they are overpriced for what they are, but that doesn't make them bad knives at all. They are definitely an improvement on the Henkels and Wusthoffs you'll see everywhere.

That they are not the prima donna's of the forum, that's another thing.


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## boomchakabowwow (Dec 1, 2016)

they are not (IMHO) an improvement over German blades. just different. like ALL things in life, there are pros/cons.

my cook friend can school me with a $40 Forschner blade. and she gets that thing super sharp.


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## guari (Dec 1, 2016)

And then, IMHO, the world over would be thrilled with the performance of an IKEA knife set.

Sure, there are cons and pros (one can get the IKEA for little money), but then the OP wouldn't have bothered with opening an account here, looking for advice on "better" knives


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## boomchakabowwow (Dec 1, 2016)

guari said:


> And then, IMHO, the world over would be thrilled with the performance of an IKEA knife set.
> 
> Sure, there are cons and pros (one can get the IKEA for little money), but then the OP wouldn't have bothered with opening an account here, looking for advice on "better" knives



sorry, i misread the title. i thought he was asking about Quality knives. a Wustof Classic is a quality knife. a chef friend of mine loves it and was actually the guy to recommend it to me when i was in my early twenties. he likes just running it on a steel occasionally in his kitchen. not something you typically do with a harder japanese steel. no doubt Japanese knives hold the most love on this forum. i've often wondered why it isnt called the Japanese Kitchen knife forum.  believe me i get it.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 1, 2016)

@boomchakabowwow you are probably right edge retention wise if comparing to german blades in the same price class - weight, balance, shape are a different matter, and indeed an important matter of taste.

And the IKEA metal-handled ones are IMHO great value for money for filling infrequent-use holes in knife blocks. Hey, the petty can be used to supreme an orange with OOTB edge, and while it will not keep that way forever (but don't lose it instantly either), can be sharpened back to that state. So we at least have a lower case q quality knife here


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## guari (Dec 1, 2016)

I started with the Ikea when I left home. Not being snob about it, didn't mean it to read that way.

In fact, my pans, cutting board, knife steel and mugs were all Ikea. And quite a few bookshelves, etc..

They all serve their purpose for sure. I think we just went down the rabbit hole of really good cutter and enjoy being there


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