# Which stone next?



## brianh (Feb 9, 2017)

I have as many knives as I need at the moment (yeah, I know) so I should consider some more stones for fun, maybe finishing. 

Stones: Gesshin 400 soaker, 2000 soaker, 6000 s&g, Jinzo Aoto. 
Knives: ealy parer, Tad petty, Kochi carbon nakiri, Gesshin carbon gyuto, modified Zakuri carbon gyuto, Kochi carbon gyuto, Munetoshi gyuto, Hiromoto honesuki, itinomonn stainless clad suji. I feel I'm pretty covered on basic sharpening stones, so maybe something to make kasumi prettier. Fingerstones? I have no idea. Budget? Dunno. $100-$200?


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## labor of love (Feb 9, 2017)

My vote would be for a "make kasumi prettier" or a 4k. Or jons synth nat.


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## Matus (Feb 9, 2017)

Uchigumori from Watanabe - some of the finer ones. Great for kasumi and for the edge


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## brianh (Feb 9, 2017)

Matus said:


> Uchigumori from Watanabe - some of the finer ones. Great for kasumi and for the edge



I'm totally new to this aside from what I've read here on KKF. Which one or two would you recommend?

http://watanabeblade.com/english/special/wetstone4.htm


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## brianh (Feb 9, 2017)

Maybe #4 or #6? Those in stock ppear to all be the same stone with varying quality and size. Should I finish right on it or make into finger stones?


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## Smashmasta (Feb 9, 2017)

brianh said:


> I'm totally new to this aside from what I've read here on KKF. Which one or two would you recommend?
> 
> http://watanabeblade.com/english/special/wetstone4.htm



#7 looks to be a better one of the lot. Most of those sizes are small, and 7 has OK dimensions and Watanabe says there are no toxic lines (but still lines which will likely be fine).


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## Matus (Feb 9, 2017)

brianh said:


> I'm totally new to this aside from what I've read here on KKF. Which one or two would you recommend?
> 
> http://watanabeblade.com/english/special/wetstone4.htm



Probably #7, but I would probably rather pick #8 or #10 from http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone6.htm, but your best bet is to ask Shinichi directly - he speaks a rather good English, answers fast and is very nice and helpful.


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## brianh (Feb 9, 2017)

Thanks, Matus. Those are a bit over what I'd like to send, but I will email Watanabe. We've corresponded before.


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## Matus (Feb 9, 2017)

I understand Bryan, but do check those smaller stones well - they will often need digging out some lines or spots. I bought one of those, but for making fingerstones. They are perfectly usable, but will require a more careful approach. I have one like that too  I think it was 20.000 Yen before Christmas discount


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## brianh (Feb 9, 2017)

Matus said:


> I understand Bryan, but do check those smaller stones well - they will often need digging out some lines or spots. I bought one of those, but for making fingerstones. They are perfectly usable, but will require a more careful approach. I have one like that too  I think it was 20.000 Yen before Christmas discount



Would fingerstones be easier for a noob who's looking to improve looks of edge and kasumi? As opposed to using as a whole stone.


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## cheflivengood (Feb 9, 2017)

brianh said:


> Would fingerstones be easier for a noob who's looking to improve looks of edge and kasumi? As opposed to using as a whole stone.



finger stones are pretty easy if you are an experienced sharpener, its all about the quality though and sin will give you the good good. If I was you though Id go for a fine hard finisher and finger stones, nothings makes you smile like a suita.


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## brianh (Feb 9, 2017)

I have so much to learn.


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## nutmeg (Feb 9, 2017)

For Uchigumori I find the most important is the thickness as we don't need a lot of surface. Also thickness makes possible to shape the stone like half cylinder, or at least to round the corners.
Check the surface. I don't know your stones but I bet you should be able to go from Aoto Jinzo to #6000 to the Uchigumori.

With this budget I would go for the small Uchigumori #6, some fingerstones and a budget diamond plate.


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## MontezumaBoy (Feb 9, 2017)

Hey Brian just thought I should warn you about that giant bottomless jnat rabbit hole you are currently riding a unicycle around while swilling tequila ... it all starts with the best of intensions ... after all you just said "I have so much to learn." so be careful for what you wish for ... should be a hell of a lot of fun though! :tease:


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## brianh (Feb 9, 2017)

nutmeg said:


> For Uchigumori I find the most important is the thickness as we don't need a lot of surface. Also thickness makes possible to shape the stone like half cylinder, or at least to round the corners.
> Check the surface. I don't know your stones but I bet you should be able to go from Aoto Jinzo to #6000 to the Uchigumori.
> 
> With this budget I would go for the small Uchigumori #6, some fingerstones and a budget diamond plate.



Thanks! I forgot to mention I have an Atoma 140 diamond plate.


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## brianh (Feb 9, 2017)

MontezumaBoy said:


> Hey Brian just thought I should warn you about that giant bottomless jnat rabbit hole you are currently riding a unicycle around while swilling tequila ... it all starts with the best of intensions ... after all you just said "I have so much to learn." so be careful for what you wish for ... should be a hell of a lot of fun though! :tease:



Funny, you're not the first to tell me this. Uh-oh.


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## cheflivengood (Feb 9, 2017)

nutmeg said:


> For Uchigumori I find the most important is the thickness as we don't need a lot of surface. Also thickness makes possible to shape the stone like half cylinder, or at least to round the corners.
> Check the surface. I don't know your stones but I bet you should be able to go from Aoto Jinzo to #6000 to the Uchigumori.
> 
> With this budget I would go for the small Uchigumori #6, some fingerstones and a budget diamond plate.



Wait...which #6 we talking because the #6 on the uchi page is $1800......and reserved for me one day hahaha


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## nutmeg (Feb 9, 2017)

cheflivengood said:


> Wait...which #6 we talking because the #6 on the uchi page is $1800......and reserved for me one day hahaha



yes.. it's a bit over the budget but after the years we forget the price and the quality stays ;-)


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## nutmeg (Feb 9, 2017)

#6, the small one here:
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone4.htm


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## brianh (Feb 9, 2017)

That page, yup. $1800 is... a bit... more than I can justify. Surprise, baby! For Valentines Day I bight a two thousand dollar rock!


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## Jovidah (Feb 9, 2017)

brianh said:


> That page, yup. $1800 is... a bit... more than I can justify. Surprise, baby! For Valentines Day I bight a two thousand dollar rock!



You might get away with it... until she finds out it's not jewelry.


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## JGui (Feb 9, 2017)

You gave me an idea this valentines! Haha. 

Oh btw, off topic, is the jinzo aoto interchangeable with the 2k? Planning in buying too..


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## daveb (Feb 10, 2017)

No. The Jinzo is a soft stone, as described it is best suited for smooth kasumi finish. Recall that it's about 800 grit.


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## brianh (Feb 11, 2017)

Shinichi said:

"Thanks for your another mail.
Uchigumori is very rare stone now. But I have some reasonable version now.
They are not perfect stone. But you can practice with them.
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone4.htm
I recommend #3 Uchigumori, Hazuya.
If you want to make finger stones, you may break these stones."

So sounds like its best for finger stones. Is this a good place for me to start getting my feet wet with naturals?


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## Benuser (Feb 11, 2017)

You need perhaps a 220 Shapton Glass


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## brianh (Feb 11, 2017)

For overgrinds or...?


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## Benuser (Feb 11, 2017)

Just thought you should be fine with your actual progression, and if you really need any addition, it were in the coarse area.


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## brianh (Feb 11, 2017)

I'm most curious on maintaining a decent appearance on my non-kurouchi, stainless cladded knives like Itinomonn and Wakui. Or just go the sandpaper and micromesh route.


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## Matus (Feb 11, 2017)

Fingerstones are something you use after you already have a nice finish and just want to make it even. Of course - you can get that base finish with a synthetic stone (though I do not have a first hand recommendation for a fine grit synthetic stone for kasumi finish). Keep in mind that with fingerstones you remove next to no material.

The #3 stone Shinichi recommended would be a good start. You may need to dig that line a little, but that is easy to do. Last but not least - Uchigumori also leaves a very nice edge with still some bite.

EDIT: I have a very similar stone from Shinichi. It is great. This one looks even nicer.


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## Matus (Feb 11, 2017)

Just to give you an example, here are my two small & cheap Uchigumori stones from Shinichi. The Aka Renge will be for fingerstones (it is very short):


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## brianh (Feb 11, 2017)

Very helpful info, Matus, thank you.


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## adam92 (Feb 18, 2020)

Matus said:


> Uchigumori from Watanabe - some of the finer ones. Great for kasumi and for the edge


Hi Matus, Shin recommend me Maruo yama stone.
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone4.htm
Do you think #6 and #12 uchigumori is good for beginner ?


http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/takashimastone.htm#
#9 Awasedo, Tomae, Iromono, Kiita, Nashiji. In Nakayama, Kyoto
Size 20 x 110 x 150mm. Weight 710g. Finest finishing stone, 2.203μm. Hardness: HS48.

#21 Tomae Asagi. In Nakayama, Kyoto
Size 24 x 62 x 180mm. Weight 620g. Finest finishing stone. Hardness: 48HSD.

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone.htm#
#6 Awasedo. Asagi. Ohira-yama in Kyoto.
Size 27 x 65 x 181mm. Weight 810g. Finest finishing stone. Hardness: HS61.


Shin's comment

#8 Awasedo. Ohira-yama in Kyoto.
Size 23 x 61 x 180mm. Weight 630g. Finest finishing stone, 3.76μm. Hardness: 57HSD.


Shin's comment

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone1.htm#
#15 Shiro suita, in Ohira-yama, Kyoto.
Size: 26 x 61 x 165m. Weight: 730g. Finest finishing stone. Hardness: HS53.


Shin's comment
Price: JPY45,000 In stock
#16 Shiro suita, Aka Renge, in Ohira-yama, Kyoto.
Size: 15 x 64 x 180mm. Weight: 440g. Finest finishing stone. Hardness: HS48.


Shin's comment
Price: JPY40,000 In stock


There's too many stone i don't know how to choice...


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## Matus (Feb 19, 2020)

I would not recommend spending 500+ on a first stone. Try to find (BST is a really good place for this) a decent lv3 - lv3.5 suita or even a finer Aizu or Natsuya - should be possible for around 200 to get the idea how natural stones are going to behave. Don't go towards harder/finer stones with the first stone, they are harder to use and the edge is for the most kitchen purposes finer than optimal.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Feb 19, 2020)

I echo Matus advice not to pursue hard stones (lvl 4 and up) as your first. You can, with time, develop a great relationship with harder jnats, but getting it in the beginning could be frustrating.

I got excelent advice from Maksim at JNS, who sold me an Atagoyama lvl3 stone some years ago. I liked it so much, i still have it. It feels like sharpening on a stone with butter on top. Harder stones could feel like sharpening on glass as there's little feedback. Besides, it usually requires better angle control and more patience in order to get the job done.


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## adam92 (Feb 19, 2020)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I echo Matus advice not to pursue hard stones (lvl 4 and up) as your first. You can, with time, develop a great relationship with harder jnats, but getting it in the beginning could be frustrating.
> 
> I got excelent advice from Maksim at JNS, who sold me an Atagoyama lvl3 stone some years ago. I liked it so much, i still have it. It feels like sharpening on a stone with butter on top. Harder stones could feel like sharpening on glass as there's little feedback. Besides, it usually requires better angle control and more patience in order to get the job done.


All right, I'll take you and Matus advice to go with soft jnat.


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