# What are your easiest stones to lap?



## Steampunk (Apr 22, 2015)

Hi all... Back again for another sharpening related question. 

I flatten my stones using a 140-grit Atoma diamond plate under running water, which I have read helps to prolong the life of the diamond plate, and have noted that regularly flattening my harder stones (Particularly my Shapton Pros, and most notably the higher grits.) using this technique is getting to be really hard on my wrists. 

Flattening my softer Belgian natural stones, however, is extremely easy, only requiring a few passes before they are once again perfectly flat. This significantly reduces my wrist fatigue, so my question is: what are your favorite (Easiest) stones to lap? This, or simply purchasing stones which experience little to no dishing (Like Jon's diamond stones :angel2:.), looks to be a factor in my future stone purchases. For this reason, I was curious to find if the other forum members found any stones in their collection to stand out for their ease in flattening; whether they be coarser stones for heavy correction, stones in the medium range (600-2000 grit), or those for final finishing... 

Thank you very much for your time! As always it is greatly appreciated...

- Steampunk


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## psfred (Apr 22, 2015)

By far the easiest stones I have to flatten are my ancient Kings. Of course, they also need to be flattened all the time, so I'm more than happy to put up with the work of getting my Besters flat -- they stay that way a long time.

I prefer hard stones that don't need flattening much, but that's mainly because I sharpen woodworking tools where flat stones are critical to getting a good edge. Knives don't have perfectly straight straight edges, and so minor dishing isn't a big problem in the way it is for wide plane blade.

To each his own!

Peter


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## Steampunk (Apr 22, 2015)

Thank you, Peter! I also have chisels and plane irons which I sharpen, but have a set of Arkansas stones and diamond plates which I use for those... Like you, I too find that harder sharpening media helps to maintain precise bevel geometry, and I actually don't even like using my Shaptons on woodworking tools for this reason. I find that my chisel backs and bevel faces don't get quite as flat with waterstones as they do when set on diamond plates, and then subsequently finished on my arks, but everyone has their own preferred system.... My waterstones are used pretty much exclusively for knives.

Again, thank you for the advice! 1-vote for King...

- Steampunk


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## panda (Apr 22, 2015)

if you do light flattening before each session it greatly reduces the effort.


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## chinacats (Apr 22, 2015)

I flatten under water (as Panda says, a little each time) and find it easier if the flattening plate is on top and the stone on the bottom...


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## Steampunk (Apr 22, 2015)

I'm still playing around with sharpening underwater rather than with the tap running to see if the angle is easier on my wrists. However, I do already flatten my stones after each sharpening session so I have less dishing to work out, and am also working on using the stone surface more evenly as you see in some of Jon @ JKI's recent videos. Nevertheless, when I am done sharpening, I am sometimes confronted with as many as 3-5 stones to maintain, and the quantity and hardness of the stones do take a tole.

My Belgians are a piece of cake to lap, and always make me wish that I had other stones which shared this quality. Hence my question... So far King's have been mentioned (I know that Dave Martell actually has a soft spot for the 800's and the 1200's.), but are there any others that people actually _like_ lapping?

Something that I am curious about, is whether or not the binder has as much to do with a stone's ease of flattening as does its density. For example, does a Naniwa Chosera/Pro stone with a magnesia binder lap any easier than a Shapton with a resin binder, even though both are harder stones? My experience with synthetics is a little limited in regards to brand diversity; hence my query...

Hopefully this helps to clarify... 

- Steampunk


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 22, 2015)

Perhaps instead of searching for stones that are easy to lap/flatten, you should search for stones that need minimal flattening? I've used a set of Jon Broida's diamond stones for well over a year and they have not even slightly dished.

Rick


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## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 23, 2015)

Mizuyama 1k is even easier to lap than King 800 in my opinion. The material is sandy (granier) opposed to muddy. It sticks less on my flattening rock and abrade faster too.


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## Bolek (Apr 23, 2015)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Perhaps instead of searching for stones that are easy to lap/flatten, you should search for stones that need minimal flattening? I've used a set of Jon Broida's diamond stones for well over a year and they have not even slightly dished.
> 
> Rick


Spyderco ceramics 306 or 302 do not dishe also.


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## Livlif (Apr 25, 2015)

Listen to Rick. If a stone is easy to lap then it's easy to dish. So it will require constant lapping. Get yourself some chosera pro stones. They take forever to dish.


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## Lizzardborn (Apr 25, 2015)

Steampunk said:


> I'm still playing around with sharpening underwater rather than with the tap running to see if the angle is easier on my wrists.



Can you elaborate?


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## x737 (Apr 25, 2015)

Combination 1k/6k King laps easily on a DMT. Because of my poor freehand skills, I cut into the 6k side and have to lap to remove those grooves rather than to address dishing. Btw, I prefer dry lapping, seems to go faster.


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## Steampunk (Apr 25, 2015)

Thank you all for the input! As always, it is greatly appreciated.. 

So far there are a couple of votes for the King's, and one for the Mizuyama... Cheers!

However, I still feel that there may be some confusion over my query... I already own very hard, dish-resistant synthetic waterstones (Shapton Pros). These are nice stones, and do not dish like crazy, but when I do lap them (Typically after every session or two.), they are quite tough. This puts more strain on my wrists compared with some of my other stones, like my Belgian natural finishers, which flatten very quickly and easily. I am not certain whether I am starting to get some arthritis, or simply I am more sensitive to wrist and hand fatigue than when I was younger, but it does mean that I am putting some effort into re-thinking my sharpening process to suit this problem.

As such, I was curious to learn if anyone noted one or more of the stones they have used as being easier to lap than the rest. A hypothesis I have, is that ease of lapping may be just as much a factor of binder, as it is of hardness (or stone density)... Since my synthetic stone experience is limited to dense, resin-bound stones, I was curious if anyone with a broad range of stone experience could comment on the validity of this hypothesis. For example, are Chosera's with a magnesia binder easier, harder, or the same effort to lap as Shapton's with a resin binder? If they are the same, this will disprove my hypothesis, and prove that density/hardness is the main factor in lapping ease. This is an interesting question from my perspective, and pertinent to those wishing to learn more about the nature of sharpening stones. 

I either need stones which - like my Belgians - lap with little effort, or ones that dish at a rate lower than even my Shaptons, like Jon's diamond or some type of sintered ceramic. Softer stones are nice for achieving even finishes during thinning, and harder ones good for creating precise bevels, so I may actually end up with both...




Lizzardborn said:


> Can you elaborate?



Yes... Currently I am lapping like this: [video=youtube;kP270SkSPSg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP270SkSPSg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP270SkSPSg[/video]. However, I am also currently experimenting with lapping with the lapping plate and stone submerged in a basin, as this way either the lapping plate or stone remains stationary during the lapping process. This may reduce my wrist fatigue over holding both lapping plate and stone under the tap whilst I lap, or it may not; I'd like to try it both ways and see if there is a difference. 

As always, thank you all for your assistance... Keep it coming! 

- Steampunk


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## ecchef (Apr 25, 2015)

Rika 5k. More fun than a lap dance! Naniwa SS are pretty cooperative, but as mentioned above, dish quickly. 
Absolute worst so far: Beston 500. Lapping this thing could be used as an interrogation method by the CIA.


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## psfred (Apr 26, 2015)

I have always lapped stones by putting the grinding plate on a solid surface and working the stone on it. No reason you could not put them under water while doing this.

Holding them in your hands while lapping can sometimes result in non-flat stones, wearing the sides more than the center if you rock them back and forth.

Just like sharpening, let the lapping plate do the work, you only need move the stone to flatten it. More pressure means more swarf and sticktion and more irritation to your wrists without greatly speeding up the job as the stone is going to float on the swarf rather than being abraded.

And again, easy to lap stones dish fast, with the result that you are going to be flattening more, not less!

Besters are a real pain to flatten, but then again if you are careful to use the whole surface and flatten often, they don't need very much work to get the job done, especially compared to something like a King 1200 that goes way out of flat so fast I can't sharpen plane irons on it.

Peter


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## Keith Sinclair (May 4, 2015)

Got a couple naturals from JNS one of them is really good for wood chisels & planes. Agree that the 5K Rika is easy to lap liked them flat for Yanagiba sharpening. It will dish faster than your shapton pro's. Rika really is a nice stone for the price.


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