# Cleaver vs cleaver



## boomchakabowwow (Nov 4, 2018)

i have two. One from Taiwan, the other Hong Kong.

They are all I’m using these days. The Taiwan blade was an extra my stepdad had put away to be a spare. I ended up with it when he passed away. I used to wonder why he didn’t gravitate towards the venerable CCK. After all; He was born and raised in Hong Kong. I don’t even know who makes the Taiwan blade. My MIL says they are pretty well known in Taiwan. She knows where the shop is.

They are both amazing. I think the Taiwan blade is sharper and holds the edge longer. The CCK is toothier edged. If the Taiwan one was smaller and more maneuverable like the CCK, it would be clear cut. I would have a winner. I’m going to Taipei soon, I’m gonna try to find a cleaver from Taiwan with similar dimensions as my beloved CCK.

I was an idiot recently. I dented the edge of the Taiwan cleaver when i absent mindedly grabbed it to whack a coconut. DUH! I have a beater in the garage for that! The dent is minor and should eventually sharpen away. No depreciation in performance at all. 

I’m a total cleaver fan. No turning back now. I just hope Kimball and Dunlop dint give rave reviews to thecTaiwan cleaver and blow pricing out of the water  again. Hehe.


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## Jville (Nov 4, 2018)

You may not like this rec, but I'll do it anyway. CKTG daou cleaver. It's really great for the price. Steel is great. I prefer it over my cck stainless. Mine needed a few minutes of sanding, but it's great after that.


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 4, 2018)

Here.


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## XooMG (Nov 5, 2018)

Yes the Ximen cleavers usually have the shop number and address stamped on them. There are a few shops I've been to that sell Ximen blades that have been surface ground. I'm not sure if it's rust removal for resale or thinning, but they often get pretty thin.

Good luck with your search.


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## Xenif (Nov 5, 2018)

One of the cleavers from Taiwan Ive always wanted to try is the Kimen Cleaver, I heard they were (used to atleast) made with old artillery shells from ww2 and later from the propaganda wars of the 60s.


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## Grunt173 (Nov 5, 2018)

Xenif said:


> One of the cleavers from Taiwan Ive always wanted to try is the Kimen Cleaver, I heard they were (used to atleast) made with old artillery shells from ww2 and later from the propaganda wars of the 60s.


Really? I wear scars from some of that so called propaganda while in Vietnam.


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## Xenif (Nov 5, 2018)

https://taiwantoday.tw/news.php?unit=18&post=24145

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinmen_knife


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## Nikabrik (Nov 5, 2018)

If you cruise Taobao much, you'll see a good many cleavers that purport to be made from those shells, at fair prices. 

The main issue is that I've not yet found a Taobao agent that doesn't think that kitchen knives are weapons (ie, won't export except on DHL).


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## Grunt173 (Nov 5, 2018)

Xenif said:


> https://taiwantoday.tw/news.php?unit=18&post=24145
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinmen_knife


Yes,propaganda was passed out in many ways,leaflets,radio etc,choppers but the war itself was not called a propaganda war.In and of itself was a true war with good people suffering and many not returning home alive.For those who were not there and experienced it can only go by what they read but let's call an ace an ace," propaganda shells,not propaganda war".
edit: sorry to go off topic and derail the post but after two tours of duty in that hell hole,I am sensitive about certain things concerning Vietnam.


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 5, 2018)

You all confused me. Ximen or Kinmen? Mine isn’t an artillery shell knife right?


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## XooMG (Nov 5, 2018)

Xenif said:


> One of the cleavers from Taiwan Ive always wanted to try is the Kimen Cleaver, I heard they were (used to atleast) made with old artillery shells from ww2 and later from the propaganda wars of the 60s.


I had and used an old one from a decade or so ago. Seems to be stainless, and not an especially nice cutter. For novelty I'd rather get one of the Shilin blades in stainless-clad skh4 or whatever they're using now (I had and sold a hap72 from them but it was the only one I encountered).


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## XooMG (Nov 5, 2018)

boomchakabowwow said:


> You all confused me. Ximen or Kinmen? Mine isn’t an artillery shell knife right?


Ximen 西門 (pronunciation guide: What's long and hard and full of Ximen?) is part of the Wanhua district of Taipei and is where your knife was made.

Kinmen 金門 are some islands governed by Taiwan but are close to the mainland. They have a couple touristy manufacturers, primarily 金永利 and 金和利, that claim to make knives from salvaged artillery shells.


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## Grunt173 (Nov 5, 2018)

I have the CCK from CKTG and in my hands,that thing is dangerous.In fact,I am going today to get the stitches removed.


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 5, 2018)

XooMG said:


> Ximen 西門 (pronunciation guide: What's long and hard and full of Ximen?) is part of the Wanhua district of Taipei and is where your knife was made.
> 
> Kinmen 金門 are some islands governed by Taiwan but are close to the mainland. They have a couple touristy manufacturers, primarily 金永利 and 金和利, that claim to make knives from salvaged artillery shells.


Thanks. Crystal clear!!


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 5, 2018)

Ouc


Grunt173 said:


> I have the CCK from CKTG and in my hands,that thing is dangerous.In fact,I am going today to get the stitches removed.


ouch. I agree. I got bit. Set the knife down and brushed against it while clearing something off the board. A lime I think.. I now face the edge away from me.


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## Noodle Soup (Nov 6, 2018)

XooMG said:


> Ximen 西門 (pronunciation guide: What's long and hard and full of Ximen?) is part of the Wanhua district of Taipei and is where your knife was made.
> 
> Kinmen 金門 are some islands governed by Taiwan but are close to the mainland. They have a couple touristy manufacturers, primarily 金永利 and 金和利, that claim to make knives from salvaged artillery shells.



They have started using artillery shell casings but I really don't think the Chinese were using stainless steel for this. And most of their knives are stainless. I asked them about it and was told stainless was used to protect the contents. Sorry, no sell.


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## daveb (Nov 6, 2018)

XooMG said:


> Ximen 西門 (pronunciation guide: What's long and hard and full of Ximen?).



The answer of course is a submarine. Gotta keep our PG rating you know.


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## XooMG (Nov 6, 2018)

daveb said:


> The answer of course is a submarine. Gotta keep our PG rating you know.


I was going to say Chengdu Road, but yeah.


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## Chef Doom (Nov 6, 2018)

These are some nice cleavers.


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## Noodle Soup (Nov 7, 2018)

boomchakabowwow said:


> Ouc
> 
> ouch. I agree. I got bit. Set the knife down and brushed against it while clearing something off the board. A lime I think.. I now face the edge away from me.


One of the things I was taught in the Hong Kong cooking school I attended last spring was to always face the edge away from you. I later noticed this was true of all the knives I saw being used in food stalls etc. Kind of a problem for a guy trying to take photos of the knives on prep sites.


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 7, 2018)

I know that now.


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## Noodle Soup (Nov 8, 2018)

Jville said:


> You may not like this rec, but I'll do it anyway. CKTG daou cleaver. It's really great for the price. Steel is great. I prefer it over my cck stainless. Mine needed a few minutes of sanding, but it's great after that.


I thought this might be the same cleaver I bought an example of in Hanoi a couple of years ago but the trademark stamp looks different on the CKTG catalog page. Ordered one to see.


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## Noodle Soup (Nov 12, 2018)

*ReCeived my Viet Daovua cleaver from CKTG today. I'm fairly certain it isn't the same maker as my Hanoi one. Its a little larger and better finished. Time will tell if it works as well. It may seem strange but Chinese style cleavers are not that common in Viet Nam. They have their own patterns. *


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## Nikabrik (Nov 12, 2018)

Noodle Soup said:


> *ReCeived my Viet Daovua cleaver from CKTG today. I'm fairly certain it isn't the same maker as my Hanoi one. Its a little larger and better finished. Time will tell if it works as well. It may seem strange but Chinese style cleavers are not that common in Viet Nam. They have their own patterns. *


Yeah, my general impression is that Mark asked them to make knives that are popular in our market, rather than trying to bring Vietnamese knife tradition into the market. The Dao Vua folks seem to feel that Vietnam doesn't have a very strong kitchen knife tradition.

Anyhow, I spent some time taking to the smith on WhatsApp. He does sell direct, but doesn't ship overseas for orders of less than 10 knives; a group buy could be an option if someone wanted to put it on and reship the knives. Prices are sightly better. The bigger upside, though, is that he offers some custom handle options that CKTG doesn't have. Here's a picture he sent me:


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## Paraffin (Dec 5, 2018)

Thought I should post this here. These are the two cheap ($19) cleavers I bought on Amazon for just one purpose, and that's chopping/mincing pork for Chinese dishes. Could use it for chicken or fish too, but I haven't done that yet. 

Brand name is "Kofery" but there are a lot of similar ones under various names. I wanted two just for the fun dual-whacking method. I use an old, beat-up sidegrain maple board to save the abuse on my other boards. I like the texture better than what I get in our meat grinder. I also like that these have the hole in the blade, so I can hang 'em on a hook in the utility room. They're too big to store in the kitchen.


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## Chef Doom (Dec 5, 2018)

Nikabrik said:


> Yeah, my general impression is that Mark asked them to make knives that are popular in our market, rather than trying to bring Vietnamese knife tradition into the market. The Dao Vua folks seem to feel that Vietnam doesn't have a very strong kitchen knife tradition.
> 
> Anyhow, I spent some time taking to the smith on WhatsApp. He does sell direct, but doesn't ship overseas for orders of less than 10 knives; a group buy could be an option if someone wanted to put it on and reship the knives. Prices are sightly better. The bigger upside, though, is that he offers some custom handle options that CKTG doesn't have. Here's a picture he sent me:View attachment 44730


I would be willing to go in on a group by depending on the price. I need more pictures of the blade though.


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## Chef Doom (Dec 5, 2018)

Paraffin said:


> Thought I should post this here. These are the two cheap ($19) cleavers I bought on Amazon for just one purpose, and that's chopping/mincing pork for Chinese dishes. Could use it for chicken or fish too, but I haven't done that yet.
> 
> Brand name is "Kofery" but there are a lot of similar ones under various names. I wanted two just for the fun dual-whacking method. I use an old, beat-up sidegrain maple board to save the abuse on my other boards. I like the texture better than what I get in our meat grinder. I also like that these have the hole in the blade, so I can hang 'em on a hook in the utility room. They're too big to store in the kitchen.


I have been wanting to try the double cleaver technique for the longest. Cleaning meat grinders sucks monkey balls.


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## Jville (Dec 5, 2018)

Chef Doom said:


> I have been wanting to try the double cleaver technique for the longest. Cleaning meat grinders sucks monkey balls.



Cleaning meat grinders does suck.


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## Jville (Dec 5, 2018)

Noodle Soup said:


> *ReCeived my Viet Daovua cleaver from CKTG today. I'm fairly certain it isn't the same maker as my Hanoi one. Its a little larger and better finished. Time will tell if it works as well. It may seem strange but Chinese style cleavers are not that common in Viet Nam. They have their own patterns. *



Yeah those cleavers we're made for Mark. They have a charming crudeness, but are good performers. The kind of cleaved you can do everything with like debone cx with. Tell me what you think of that steel when you get into it. I'm still getting into mine, haven't been using it lately. But my first impression of the steel was impressed.


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## Nikabrik (Dec 5, 2018)

Chef Doom said:


> I would be willing to go in on a group by depending on the price. I need more pictures of the blade though.


Here's the picture he has. He says he's sold all his cleavers, so he can't send additional photos at the moment. Handles currently are Vietnamese ebony apparently. Blade length is 8".


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## aaamax (Dec 6, 2018)

Nikabrik said:


> Here's the picture he has. He says he's sold all his cleavers, so he can't send additional photos at the moment. Handles currently are Vietnamese ebony apparently. Blade length is 8".View attachment 45563



I dig those handles, especially if the price is low...
And there is no word yet on the price is there?


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## Nikabrik (Dec 6, 2018)

aaamax said:


> I dig those handles, especially if the price is low...
> And there is no word yet on the price is there?


The pricing he provided for all his other knives was $40 each, plus 11th free when you order 10 knives. I'm checking with him whether cleavers are the same price.

They'd be delivered to a single address, so there'd be an additional cost to package and ship them to their final destination.


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## Jville (Dec 6, 2018)

Nikabrik said:


> The pricing he provided for all his other knives was $40 each, plus 11th free when you order 10 knives. I'm checking with him whether cleavers are the same price.
> 
> They'd be delivered to a single address, so there'd be an additional cost to package and ship them to their final destination.



Hmm, if they are $40ish with those handles, I might be down to grab another so I can double cleave. These would work good for that imo.


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## boomchakabowwow (Dec 6, 2018)

Working two cleavers on meat (or that ginger, green onion, salt/oil thing for boiled white chicken) is a great time. Mine are not the same size, but once I get a drum beat going....fun.


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## Nikabrik (Mar 19, 2019)

Good news everyone! Rodriguez Butcher Supply is now selling Dao Vua knives, including the cleaver - plus several others. Here's their announcement on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/the_homeb...utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=93fj1malsut4

Their website: https://homebutcher.com/collections/dao-vua-knives


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## Paraffin (Mar 19, 2019)

boomchakabowwow said:


> Working two cleavers on meat (or that ginger, green onion, salt/oil thing for boiled white chicken) is a great time. Mine are not the same size, but once I get a drum beat going....fun.



It sure is fun. I thought I'd only be using my two cheap cleavers for Chinese dishes with chopped or minced pork. But today I did the dual cleaver whacka-whacka on leftover corned beef from a St. Patrick's Day dinner, for corned beef hash. Cooked corned beef is more dense than raw pork, but it works fine if sliced into thin strips first. Makes great corned beef hash.


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## Michi (Mar 19, 2019)

Nikabrik said:


> Good news everyone! Rodriguez Butcher Supply is now selling Dao Vua knives, including the cleaver - plus several others.


All sold out, except for the 240 mm Gyuto.


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## Nikabrik (Mar 20, 2019)

Michi said:


> All sold out, except for the 240 mm Gyuto.


Wow, that was quick. They mentioned only having certain knives from "this trip," so perhaps he inspected/hand selected them on location. Either way, he also said on IG to expect a restock in about 3 weeks.


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