# Preserving kasumi finish when taking off patina



## JLaz (Jul 26, 2016)

I've been using a Hideriyama from Jon for about a year now and have recently gotten an Ohira Suita and while the resulting finish off both of these stones are very good, I am looking for a way to remove patina on single and wide bevel knives without ruining the once very nice kasumi finish. I'm trying to avoid having to sharpen the whole bevel every after shift to preserve my stones and steel.

I've been using Flitz to remove patina stains every after shift diligently and while it does a very good job at removing patina quickly, it also has the drawback of making both hagane and jigane very shiny. There is still a clear distinction between the two steels but a lot less haze on the ji. It is then more of a color difference than a contrast in mirror/cloudy.

Do you guys know of some methods that preserve the original intended finish while removing patina?


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## JBroida (Jul 26, 2016)

finger stones? stone mud and a cork?


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## JLaz (Jul 26, 2016)

Fingerstones everyday sounds a bit on the expensive side.

I do save the mud from sharpening with some make up pads but they i only am able to gather around 4 pcs per sharpening session. That makes 4 days of patina removal.

Another idea in mind is to use a "slurry stone" to creat just enough slurry from the bottom of the stone to use for polishing.


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## jklip13 (Jul 27, 2016)

If you can afford the time, I think your best bet is to touch them up on the stones every day. Your knives and your skill will get sharper. There are plenty of ways to cheat: stone slurry, rust erasers, metal polish. They all work really well but none can do what a stone does and they often are still so time consuming. If you can, why not put the extra couple minutes, get that kasumi finish you like and a sharper knife too!


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## Mute-on (Jul 27, 2016)

I've only ever used a baking soda slurry and my fingers or a cork to remove ugly stains and light rust. The underlying finish and most of the base patina is preserved. 

This will not polish the knife however, but it will stabilize the finish.


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## ThEoRy (Jul 27, 2016)

What about bar keepers friend?


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## mikedtran (Jul 27, 2016)

I love the Korin Cleaning Cloths - http://korin.com/Cleaning-Cloth_2

* Cotton 40% 
* Alminium oxide 45% 
* Aliphatic acid 4% 
* Animal/vegetal oil&fat 5% 
* Liquid paraffin 3% 
* Interfacial active agen 3%

Cloth with abrasive and oils, perfect for cleaning off patina and light rust. I have not see any visible scratches from these clothes and it leaves the Kasumi completely intact =)


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## JLaz (Jul 28, 2016)

jklip13 said:


> If you can afford the time, I think your best bet is to touch them up on the stones every day. Your knives and your skill will get sharper. There are plenty of ways to cheat: stone slurry, rust erasers, metal polish. They all work really well but none can do what a stone does and they often are still so time consuming. If you can, why not put the extra couple minutes, get that kasumi finish you like and a sharper knife too!



Deffinately the best way to improve technique. But it would come at the cost of worn stones and knives a lot quicker.



Mute-on said:


> I've only ever used a baking soda slurry



Ill give this a try. Thanks



ThEoRy said:


> What about bar keepers friend?



I always thought they left their own patina?



mikedtran said:


> I love the Korin Cleaning Cloths - http://korin.com/Cleaning-Cloth_2
> Cloth with abrasive and oils, perfect for cleaning off patina and light rust. I have not see any visible scratches from these clothes and it leaves the Kasumi completely intact =)



Ill try to get a hold of these with my next shipment from the states. Thanks for sharing!




Do you guys have specific methods in collecting stone slurry or do you simple gather them into a container afterwards?


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## Matus (Jul 28, 2016)

One way to get stone power is to flatten your stones dry and collect the stone powder - easier than with a mud.


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## Dan P. (Jul 28, 2016)

A method I was taught to make a "revealer"; God forgive me I can't remember the name of the knifemaker who taught it to me, a very agreeable gentleman of Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, but you make up a mix of modelling rubber and add rouge (iron oxide) or tripoli or whatever you need, let it set, and you use it as a sort of eraser to take the layer of patina off your metal.


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## JLaz (Jul 31, 2016)

Ive started to collect mud from sharpening on my Hideriyama Awasedo in a small plastic container (the kind of container you would put a dipping sauce in when packing lunch. Cork and mud works well even when evening out the finish after sharpening.

Dan, that sounds a bit more complicated than i would be able to do. If someone makes a ready-made eraser for people, that would be nice! Hint hint, that would be a nice product to add for some sellers here


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## Matus (Aug 1, 2016)

Just to say that the little plastic canisters from 35mm film work perfectly for this purpose  I plan to use a little piece of cow leather (the courase side) as applying pad for the stone powder. I have used cotton balls (pads), but they are just too soft.

I am wondering whether mixing a powerd from natural stones with some semi-soft/flexible binding agent could work to make 'finger stones' for an average user would work ...


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## JBroida (Aug 1, 2016)

rubber cement?


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## Matus (Aug 1, 2016)

JBroida said:


> rubber cement?



would that work?


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## jklip13 (Aug 1, 2016)

I think the purpose of using natural stone powder is to create the Kasumi effect right? I'm pretty sure slurry is necessary for that so I don't think a polymer/plastic would work, it would be like the Emery rust erasers, it might polish metal but won't generate slurry. I wonder if you could make cement fingerstones out of lime and natural stone powder. I don't really know how cement works though so maybe I'm way off.


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## JBroida (Aug 1, 2016)

Matus said:


> would that work?



no clue... i was just making stuff up


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## Matus (Aug 2, 2016)

me too


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## JLaz (Aug 2, 2016)

Got a plywood backed corkboard for next to nothing and cut it into fingerstone sized pieces. They work well with stone mud without scratching


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## Badgertooth (Aug 2, 2016)




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## Badgertooth (Aug 2, 2016)

Good old nappy cream


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## Badgertooth (Aug 2, 2016)

two minutes later


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## JLaz (Aug 2, 2016)

That 280grit finish looks very shiny?

Nice pictures! I'm aftaid I can't get the storyline striaght. Was the knife new in the second picture? Used to get patina then polished with 280grit and antifungal cream?


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## Badgertooth (Aug 2, 2016)

Sorry, haha, first knife is a stainless clad knife I thinned the hell out of and I'm refinishing which I experimented on. 

The second post is a patinated toyama that I thought I'd try cleaning up to keep it on point. I think the 280 is shiny because I am going in the same direction as the original finish.


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## JLaz (Aug 2, 2016)

Thanks for sharing!

I will one day refinish the kanji side of my single bevels to sanjo ish finish. I'll keep in mind the grit powder.


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## Doug (Aug 3, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


>




Wow. You guys have cream that can take the rash off a baby's butt, and the rash off your knives? Brilliant!


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## XooMG (Aug 3, 2016)

Doug said:


> Wow. You guys have cream that can take the rash off a baby's butt, and the rash off your knives? Brilliant!


Just make sure you don't mix them up.


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## nutmeg (Jun 4, 2019)

You should try with an almost worn out/ flexible soft finger stone, mud from a natural pre-finisher/finisher and eventually water with baking soda.
The financial cost is close to zero and doesn‘t look cheap.


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## M1k3 (Jun 4, 2019)

Mute-on said:


> I've only ever used a baking soda slurry and my fingers or a cork to remove ugly stains and light rust. The underlying finish and most of the base patina is preserved.
> 
> This will not polish the knife however, but it will stabilize the finish.



This is what I use. No polish. Just removes patina.


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