# Fake Japanese knives



## drsmp (Feb 3, 2019)

Fake shun set






I buy and sell Shun and Miyabi knives on eBay and saw my first set of obvious fakes listed - a set of Shun Kaji. Kaji handles only have two rivets, the blades are Damascus effect and the bolster doesn’t continue to the heel of the blade . I also collect coins and there are tons of very deceptive high dollar fakes available - some even in fake certified holders. Has anyone seen fake high end Japanese knives ? I’m not experienced enough to spot them, I’d imagine they’re out there.


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## ynot1985 (Feb 4, 2019)

im not surprised considering how much shuns go for.

I know for a fact that fake shigefusa knives exist


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## Michi (Feb 4, 2019)

This sort of thing will never stop. The only protection is to buy from a reputable seller.


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## McMan (Feb 4, 2019)

ynot1985 said:


> I know for a fact that fake shigefusa knives exist


Details?


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## ivnj (Feb 4, 2019)

McMan said:


> Details?


http://www.kitaeji.com/articles/04_Shigefusa_Fakes/index.html


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## aaamax (Feb 4, 2019)

ivnj said:


> http://www.kitaeji.com/articles/04_Shigefusa_Fakes/index.html



interesting read, but I can't make heads or tails of the pics unfortunately. 
However, the idea of China making a counterfeit item that can sell for many times more than manufacturing costs shouldn't surprise anyone.


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## NO ChoP! (Feb 6, 2019)

Fake Globals are rampant. I've also heard of a few fake Kramers floating around.


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## McMan (Feb 6, 2019)

ivnj said:


> http://www.kitaeji.com/articles/04_Shigefusa_Fakes/index.html


Thanks for the link.
Intersting stuff... 
I remember seeing a group of 3 Kato 240mm gyuto for sale on taobao for $400. At the time, I figured something was fishy but didn't think that Kato would be counterfeit... I guess I wasn't skeptical enough.


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## ivnj (Feb 7, 2019)

McMan said:


> Thanks for the link.
> Intersting stuff...
> I remember seeing a group of 3 Kato 240mm gyuto for sale on taobao for $400. At the time, I figured something was fishy but didn't think that Kato would be counterfeit... I guess I wasn't skeptical enough.


Wow didnt know Kato also have fakes, but at the same time not too surprised lol. China’s counterfeiting skill is unreal.


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## ecchef (Feb 7, 2019)

Very high ethical standards.


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## Chef Doom (Feb 7, 2019)

It is only unethical when the fakes are as expensive as the original. Fakes should be priced at %40 sale price at the minimum.


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## Michi (Feb 7, 2019)

Chef Doom said:


> It is only unethical when the fakes are as expensive as the original.


I would disagree with that. A fake Rolex watch for $40 is still unethical because it copies the design without permission, and piggy-backs onto the fame of the product without paying royalties.

In the case of knives, that is just as true. A fake Masamoto (or whatever) doesn't advertise itself as "this is a copy of a real Masamoto" now, does it? Trademark violation aside, this is deceptive, designed to con the buyer into thinking that they bought the real thing at a good price.

How would you feel if someone used your name without your permission to sell an inferior product?


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## milkbaby (Feb 8, 2019)

Chef Doom said:


> It is only unethical when the fakes are as expensive as the original. Fakes should be priced at %40 sale price at the minimum.



How is it ethical to con a buyer who thinks they're the real thing? Remind me never to do business with you.


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## Bert2368 (Feb 8, 2019)

ecchef said:


> Very high ethical standards.


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## Dhoff (Feb 8, 2019)

Well, one could argue ethics are part of culture, and that part of the chinese culture is to make copies in addition to many other (more flattering) cultural traits. 

Just as Danish people have a culture for being a pain in the arse if one expects workers to just comply without questioning work orders and drinking excessive amounts of alchohol.


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## Bert2368 (Feb 8, 2019)

Dhoff said:


> Just as Danish people have a culture for being a pain in the arse if one expects workers to just comply without questioning work orders


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## merlijny2k (Feb 8, 2019)

Funny thing is here you can buy fake globals advertised as ....... fake globals. I honestly can't spot any difference from a picture. I suppose if you have them in hand you can judge by the thickness of the edge. Cheap Chinese knives with an edge as thin as a Wusthoff's are already few and far between let alone a Global.


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## Michi (Feb 8, 2019)

merlijny2k said:


> Funny thing is here you can buy fake globals advertised as ....... fake globals.


Well, at least you know what you are buying then. If they don't actually print "Global" on them, that’s probably entirely legal. (I don't know to what extent the design of the Global knives is protected. I suspect that there is not a lot of protection though when it comes to the shape of a knife and its handle.)


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## podzap (Feb 8, 2019)

Almost anything you buy in Greece should be suspect counterfeit - from Ray-Ban sunglasses in souvenier shops to Tanqueray Gin in supermarkets. Everything with a brand name is most probably fake. The borders are porous and the customs enforcement is subject to bribes.

If you google for "shun kdm0006 site:.gr" you will find plenty of examples. There are sets of shuns where the handle is completely different and every model inside the set has the same "kdm0006" model number stamped onto the blade!!!


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## Chef Doom (Feb 8, 2019)

Michi said:


> I would disagree with that. A fake Rolex watch for $40 is still unethical because it copies the design without permission, and piggy-backs onto the fame of the product without paying royalties.
> 
> In the case of knives, that is just as true. A fake Masamoto (or whatever) doesn't advertise itself as "this is a copy of a real Masamoto" now, does it? Trademark violation aside, this is deceptive, designed to con the buyer into thinking that they bought the real thing at a good price.
> 
> How would you feel if someone used your name without your permission to sell an inferior product?


A person who pays $40 for a rolex would never buy an authentic one to begin with. 

Buyer beware I say. If a person were to buy a $40 knock off and actually believe it is aunthentic, then they are a fool. You get what you pay for.

Using my name and using my design are 2 different things and don't correlate. It isn't buying a fake rolex that is a problem. It is people that think it is real that is a problem.


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## Chef Doom (Feb 8, 2019)

Anyone that has issue with what I stated should stop making purchases on Amazon and cancel their Prime accounts since you are supporting one of the biggest perpetrators of product fraud.


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## Chef Doom (Feb 8, 2019)

milkbaby said:


> How is it ethical to con a buyer who thinks they're the real thing? Remind me never to do business with you.


It is not the sellers fault that you blindly bought a new Shigefusa Kitaeji 240 gyuto for $300 when you deep down know it doesn't add up. The peddling of fakes speaks more to the issues of capitalism where price overshadows everything else.


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## Chef Doom (Feb 8, 2019)

podzap said:


> Almost anything you buy in Greece should be suspect counterfeit - from Ray-Ban sunglasses in souvenier shops to Tanqueray Gin in supermarkets. Everything with a brand name is most probably fake. The borders are porous and the customs enforcement is subject to bribes.
> 
> If you google for "shun kdm0006 site:.gr" you will find plenty of examples. There are sets of shuns where the handle is completely different and every model inside the set has the same "kdm0006" model number stamped onto the blade!!!


It's sad when shops do this and it is the same price as the original. Nobody should pay top dollar for fakes and knock offs. The purpose is to make a person feel like they are getting a deal.


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## lemeneid (Feb 8, 2019)

Michi said:


> Well, at least you know what you are buying then. If they don't actually print "Global" on them, that’s probably entirely legal. (I don't know to what extent the design of the Global knives is protected. I suspect that there is not a lot of protection though when it comes to the shape of a knife and its handle.)


Well Porsche has made Global-like knives with double the price. I saw them in some department store cutlery section, so yeah whatdaya know, a car manufacturer making knives


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## podzap (Feb 8, 2019)

Chef Doom said:


> A person who pays $40 for a rolex would never buy an authentic one to begin with.
> 
> Buyer beware I say. If a person were to buy a $40 knock off and actually believe it is aunthentic, then they are a fool. You get what you pay for.
> 
> Using my name and using my design are 2 different things and don't correlate. It isn't buying a fake rolex that is a problem. It is people that think it is real that is a problem.



Context is everything in this assumption. Ignorance speaks to exposure while fool speaks to poor judgement and low intelligence. There are plenty of smart people in this world who simply are not aware that Rolex and Shun are elite global brands that are not otherwise accessible to them. And then again, not all people have been raised in a place where trademark protection is considered important.

Or to put it more concretely: Not all people have been reading Red Herring while drinking Makers Mark on an American Airlines flight 

These people are not a problem, you are. Not you individually, rather collectively.


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## podzap (Feb 8, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> Well Porsche has made Global-like knives with double the price. I saw them in some department store cutlery section, so yeah whatdaya know, a car manufacturer making knives



Porsche has been lending it's name to high-end design for decades; they don't manufacture any of this stuff.


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## lemeneid (Feb 9, 2019)

podzap said:


> Porsche has been lending it's name to high-end design for decades; they don't manufacture any of this stuff.


They should just stick to making cars. Whatever the case may be, other can cars their other stuff is just too garish or avant- garden for my tastes.


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## Michi (Feb 9, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> They should just stick to making cars. Whatever the case may be, other can cars their other stuff is just too garish or avant- garden for my tastes.


The problem is that I can't shave with any of their cars


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## bahamaroot (Feb 9, 2019)

merlijny2k said:


> Funny thing is here you can buy fake globals advertised as ....... fake globals....


I'd buy fake Globals before Globals. How much worse could they be?


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## lemeneid (Feb 10, 2019)

I’m surprised there aren’t any counterfeit KS around. Probably easier to make high quality fakes of those than Shigs since they’re just stamped blades.


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## minibatataman (Feb 10, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> I’m surprised there aren’t any counterfeit KS around. Probably easier to make high quality fakes of those than Shigs since they’re just stamped blades.


There's cheap Chinese knives that look exactly the same but with a round plastic ware handle, but they're not called KS.


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## Bert2368 (Feb 10, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> I’m surprised there aren’t any counterfeit KS around. Probably easier to make high quality fakes of those than Shigs since they’re just stamped blades.


Always remember, the difference between bad and worse is much more noticeable than that between good and better!


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## WildBoar (Feb 10, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> They should just stick to making cars. Whatever the case may be, other can cars their other stuff is just too garish or avant- garden for my tastes.


Porsche Design is it's own shop, and is not part of the car design group. They have designed consumer products for decades. Usually a manufacturer hires them to do a run of special products. The Chroma knives are just one example; there are quite a few watches out there, where Sinn and other companies have done limited edition Porsche Designs. Lots of luggage, wallets, sunglasses, etc. as well.


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## WildBoar (Feb 10, 2019)

I do have a question though. Is the bottle of "Chef Doom's Clap B' Gone" at CVS counterfeit, or just someone trying a capitalize on his name/ KKF fame? 

(asking for a friend)


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## milkbaby (Feb 10, 2019)

Ouch, but I still LOL


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## Barashka (Feb 10, 2019)

I didn't really think of that, but yeh, what about the KS fakes? Or maybe it's just hard to fake?


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## Michi (Feb 10, 2019)

I would think that a KS would be quite easy to fake. It's a very plain knife.


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## Barashka (Feb 10, 2019)

KS is a plain looking knife, yes, but once you pick it up you'll notice nuances in grinds and tapers ... I guess those wouldn't show on pictures, so fakes should be a plenty ...


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