# Houston Edge Works experience?



## mille162 (Oct 26, 2018)

Anyone familiar with Houston Edge Works? Saw an article recently where one of the Voltagio brothers mentioned them as his knives of choice. Don’t see much about them anywhere else but pricing seems low enough to give them a try.

https://www.houstonedgeworks.com/pricing/


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## parbaked (Oct 26, 2018)

He makes brit mila knives, for circumcising babies, so hopefully his blades are good for detail work...


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 26, 2018)

Stephan's been a vendor on another forum since 2015, so he's not a "fly-by-night". I can't say how his knives perform, though.


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## foody518 (Oct 26, 2018)

600 for a 210 gyuto or 750 for a 240 gyuto is not my idea of low...
I think another factor that biases me is the perception that more of that is going into the handle than the blade. So I guess it's a taste thing


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 26, 2018)

I don't get putting kanji on a US made knife, made by American blade smiths. Looks naff


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## Miles (Nov 4, 2018)

Corradobrit1 said:


> I don't get putting kanji on a US made knife, made by American blade smiths. Looks naff


I worked with Stephen on a project and have had multiple opportunities to use and test a lot of different blades that he's crafted. He's also making one for me. They're unique. He really pushes the limits on his grinds. They perform quite well. I've even used some "in progress" blades that don't even have an actual edge on them and can attest the grind is spot on even without a proper edge on them. He puts a lot of effort into the aesthetics and especially the handles to be sure. That may not be everyone's cup of tea but it's part of what makes his blades unique and makes them stand out. There is an interesting story behind the kanji, as well. However, I'll leave that story for Stephen to share if he chimes in on the thread.


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## pennman (Nov 4, 2018)

Thanks Miles! The kanji is my name. It came from a custom fountain pen I commissioned from Nakaya. When I had my pen made, they had an option to write you name in the lacquer. They would develop a kanji name for non-Japanese names. Three ways to do that. 

1. Janapses has a completely phonetic set of characters that are non-sensical, but to be polite, you can use them so a Japanese speaker can phonate your name so you can recognize it while talking. 

2. Your name can be a Japanese word that sounds like your name and your profession. 

3. Your name can be the derrivitive of your name and the closest meaning in Japanese and your profession. 

“Stephen” derives from “stephanos” in Greek meaning “laurel wreath of victory”. Closest Nakaya drrrived was “crown of the king”. Those are the first two characters. The other 4 are my profession- forensic pathologist. They have those in Japan-police surgeons (the British term). 

The pen was made and I sent an photo of it to my cousin who speaks, reads, writes fluent Japanese (he is a professor of Japanese language) who wrote it in his calligraphy style.

Subsequently, I met Masahiro Morimoto at the Austin food and wine festival in 2012 or 2013 where he signed his new cookbook for me. I showed him my name in kanji and he autographed the book to me. He wrote all 6 characters in his own handwriting. 

A graphic artist friend of mine then scanned and lifted the characters off the face page of the book and I had a stencil made of them. 

Therefore, my name is on each blade anointed by the “hand” of masahiro moromoto.


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## pennman (Nov 4, 2018)

foody518 said:


> 600 for a 210 gyuto or 750 for a 240 gyuto is not my idea of low...
> I think another factor that biases me is the perception that more of that is going into the handle than the blade. So I guess it's a taste thing



I like technically advanced steel for higher performance and edge holding characteristics. My steels include XHP, W2, Cruwear/Z-wear, 3V, 4V, 10V, Elmax, 20CV/M390, M4, S110V, and now some crazy steels like Rex 121. All in chef knife thicknesses ( and the occasional tactical blade). 

I also have some SG2 San mai and San mai super blue.


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## pennman (Nov 4, 2018)

Corradobrit1 said:


> I don't get putting kanji on a US made knife, made by American blade smiths. Looks naff



Do you have the same opinion of Murray Carter’s blades?


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## Gregmega (Nov 8, 2018)

Uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh Murray at least studied in Japan for years and took his mantle from his master.


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## pennman (Nov 8, 2018)

Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh you didn’t qualify your statement when you made it and you certainly didn’t say which American makers, in your opinion, are worthy of using kanji on their blades because of the criteria you deem sufficient to do so.


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## DitmasPork (Nov 8, 2018)

Can't believe the language a knife is signed is even an issue! Whether kanji is used out of reverence, aesthetics, or just pure market savvy—they're all valid reasons. Quality of the knife is what's important to me.


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 8, 2018)

pennman said:


> Do you have the same opinion of Murray Carter’s blades?



Last time I checked he signs his blades 'Carter' or 'Muteki'


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## pennman (Nov 8, 2018)

DitmasPork said:


> Can't believe the language a knife is signed is even an issue! Whether kanji is used out of reverence, aesthetics, or just pure market savvy—they're all valid reasons. Quality of the knife is what's important to me.


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## pennman (Nov 8, 2018)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Last time I checked he signs his blades 'Carter' or 'Muteki'



He has 2 kanji characters on most of his blades. Maybe not the Muteki line though.


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## bruce8088 (Nov 8, 2018)

i dunno, just speaking speaking of the aesthetics - not digging using kanji without having related background imo. it's like like mcdonalds using a chinese style font without serving chinese food. does anyone own these here? would love to see some video reviews!


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## Gregmega (Nov 8, 2018)

pennman said:


> Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh you didn’t qualify your statement when you made it and you certainly didn’t say which American makers, in your opinion, are worthy of using kanji on their blades because of the criteria you deem sufficient to do so.



Frankly I could care less what’s on a maker’s mark if the work is good. Your question referred to whether Murray has claim to use kanji or if we felt the same about him using kanji, I would say his history qualifies him. While your story is cute, it just reads as desperate and culturally flat. I’d say the same of most makers who need some loose association to Japanese makers to ‘validate’ their work. I find that work that comes from an honest and raw place speaks to me more. There’s plenty of makers out there that use these tactics, the ‘sizzle, not the steak’ as someone put it earlier on another thread. But that is just my opinion.


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## Gregmega (Nov 8, 2018)

bruce8088 said:


> i dunno, just speaking speaking of the aesthetics - not digging using kanji without having related background imo. it's like like mcdonalds using a chinese style font without serving chinese food. does anyone own these here? would love to see some video reviews!



Pretty much. Just be McDonald’s, at least it’s honest.


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## WildBoar (Nov 8, 2018)

Eh, I have seen lots of people in the US with tattoos that utilize kanji. That is much funnier to me than a US-made knife using kanji.


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## daveb (Nov 8, 2018)

Let's back the truck up.

Houston Edge Works has expressed interest in becoming a Pro Craftsman here and his application has been approved to do so. We did not find a need to vett his makers mark, my apologies to anyone that this has upset. Sorry not sorry. 

If he decides to come onboard I hope we can be more welcoming.


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## pennman (Nov 8, 2018)

Gregmega said:


> Frankly I could care less what’s on a maker’s mark if the work is good. Your question referred to whether Murray has claim to use kanji or if we felt the same about him using kanji, I would say his history qualifies him. While your story is cute, it just reads as desperate and culturally flat. I’d say the same of most makers who need some loose association to Japanese makers to ‘validate’ their work. I find that work that comes from an honest and raw place speaks to me more. There’s plenty of makers out there that use these tactics, the ‘sizzle, not the steak’ as someone put it earlier on another thread. But that is just my opinion.




If I put my name on the blade written in Hebrew, would you object?


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## Gregmega (Nov 8, 2018)

pennman said:


> If I put my name on the blade written in Hebrew, would you object?



No sir, I wouldn’t, and if it was honest to who you are, I’d likely high five you for doing it. I don’t object to your work in any way, kanji or otherwise. I was merely stating an observation in response to a question asked.


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## captaincaed (Nov 8, 2018)

Hey, since we have the man himself here to answer a couple questions, I'd love to ask about heat treats. 
You offer a wide spectrum of new and exotic metals (for kitchen knives anyway). May I ask if you've developed your own heart treat practices, or use a professional HR shop? Do you have hardness guidelines you shoot for?
I promise is not a trap question, just honest curiosity about process. 
The combination of quality handles and attention to grind are enough to make me curious.


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## pennman (Nov 8, 2018)

captaincaed said:


> Hey, since we have the man himself here to answer a couple questions, I'd love to ask about heat treats.
> You offer a wide spectrum of new and exotic metals (for kitchen knives anyway). May I ask if you've developed your own heart treat practices, or use a professional HR shop? Do you have hardness guidelines you shoot for?
> I promise is not a trap question, just honest curiosity about process.
> The combination of quality handles and attention to grind are enough to make me curious.



Thanks for asking. I use Peters for my heat treating. Brad is insanely kniwledgable and experienced with the high alloy steels I prefer. And he has the vacuum furnaces that are necessary for optimal HT of steels like Elmax and 20CV. I have a list of optimum hardnesses for each of my steels and Peters hits them spot on. And he keeps each blade dead straight and I don’t have to worry about it turning into a strip of cooked bacon if I do it myself.


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## captaincaed (Nov 9, 2018)

I thought of a couple followups if that's alright.

1. What hardness levels do you prefer for a couple of your favorite steels, and what characteristics are you striving for with the heat treatment? (I'm personally curious about CPM-154, CPM-M4 and CPM-S110V).

2. What happens to these particular steels if you don't HT under a vacuum? I'm assuming some kind of unwanted oxidation, but do you know/can you share any details about what this does to the metal?

This may not make me popular, but I think controlled ovens, salt pots and the like are probably the way to go for heat treatments. I respect the absolute hell out of anyone who can do it in a fire and a bucket of water. I just tend to lean toward systematic approaches to technical problems in my own life.

Anyhow, thanks for the info!


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## pennman (Nov 9, 2018)

captaincaed said:


> I thought of a couple followups if that's alright.
> 
> 1. What hardness levels do you prefer for a couple of your favorite steels, and what characteristics are you striving for with the heat treatment? (I'm personally curious about CPM-154, CPM-M4 and CPM-S110V).
> 
> ...




For chef knives, I go for best wear resistance and edge holding. For boning or tactical/outdoors knives, I want more toughness than chef knives (which saccrifices some edge holding). 

62-63 for CPM 154Cm/XHP
64-65 for M4
62 for S110V

I’m not sure what happens when high alloy steels are not done under vacuum, but when I first started using them, multiple knifemakers who were using them and helping me learn what to do (M390 will kick your ass very quickly!) all agreed that super steels optimally needed vacuum hardening and Peters did the best job.


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## Ruso (Nov 9, 2018)

Stephan, what’s your opinion on AEBL and 440A?
Any experience with Bulat steel?


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## pennman (Nov 9, 2018)

Ruso said:


> Stephan, what’s your opinion on AEBL and 440A?
> Any experience with Bulat steel?


There is a whole other thread on the forum where we have been discussing AEBL. I don’t use 440a for a chef knife, nor would I. No experience with Bulat steel.


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## captaincaed (Nov 9, 2018)

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/best-steel-for-a-kitchen-knife-blade.39036/


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## milkbaby (Nov 9, 2018)

captaincaed said:


> What happens to these particular steels if you don't HT under a vacuum? I'm assuming some kind of unwanted oxidation, but do you know/can you share any details about what this does to the metal?



Stainless steel with a large amount of alloying elements need to be heated for longer time at higher temperature than simple carbon steels. If done in an oxidizing atmosphere, you'll heavily decarburize the steel, and since carbon is what turns iron into steel, so you end up with soft low carbon content steel, or if burned up long enough, iron.


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## milkbaby (Nov 9, 2018)

I just wanted to chime in on the kanji mark too. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but realize there are plenty of western makers worshipped on this forum that wholesale appropriate Japanese style in the knives they make, i.e. making wa handled honyaki gyuto and/or other Japanese style cutlery, that I feel the complaint over cultural appropriation with respect to the kanji marking is a non-issue. And I feel that Stephen is doing it in a respectful way too.


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## captaincaed (Nov 9, 2018)

parbaked said:


> He makes brit mila knives, for circumcising babies, so hopefully his blades are good for detail work...


"Because your appliances are now talking to each other...about you. You don't wanna be three o'clock in the morning going, 'Yes, refrigerator, open please.' (as the refrigerator) 'No, Robin, I've talked to the scale and your ass is huge.' (as himself) 'Refrigerator, Haagen-Dazs, override, code 3.0?' (as the refrigerator) 'No, Robin, 'til you've logged 2.2 hours on the treadmoil.' The 'treadmoil,' which is a really hard thing - That's where you can actually run and be circumcised!! Wow! There's a product for the Jewish man on the go! A treadmoil! Can you believe it?! I'm losing weight and losing my foreskin at the same time!"
-Robin Williams


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## Xenif (Nov 9, 2018)

Y'all know the Japanese adopted Kanji from the Chinese around 6-7 century right? Just sayin


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## MrHiggins (Nov 9, 2018)

This whole kanji-on-an-American-knife theme is killing me. Oy vey! My wife is into baby-wearing and is on a few baby-wearing forums where they show off their new carriers (yeah, there's a niche market for just about everything). Anyway, she got the wrath of the Internet denizens when she posted her new woven carrier that had a pattern inspired by the Inca Indians. CULTURAL APPROPRIATION, the denizens yelled! YOU CAN'T WEAR THAT, they screamed! My wife quit that forum. Anyway, why can't Americans use kanji? Do I need to be Italian to make pasta?


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## LostHighway (Nov 9, 2018)

milkbaby said:


> I just wanted to chime in on the kanji mark too. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but realize there are plenty of western makers worshipped on this forum that wholesale appropriate Japanese style in the knives they make, i.e. making wa handled honyaki gyuto and/or other Japanese style cutlery, that I feel the complaint over cultural appropriation with respect to the kanji marking is a non-issue. And I feel that Stephen is doing it in a respectful way too.



These are really murky water to be wading into. My personal take is that knives that closely or not-so-closely reference Japanese styles are fine. There are Western potters, print makers, gardeners, architects, woodworkers, etc. who are very influenced by Japanese aesthetics. I have no issue with that although I tend to think more highly of those who reference and honor their influences but have developed their own style as opposed to slavishly imitating their inspirations. In the case of knives I have more trouble with work that, to my eye, disrespects Japanese aesthetic traditions by being loud/attention seeking/garish. This could be either entire knives or some custom handles on Japanese knives. This is just personal take, there is no objective measure, and I'm not referencing any specific makers.


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## pennman (Nov 9, 2018)

LostHighway said:


> These are really murky water to be wading into. My personal take is that knives that closely or not-so-closely reference Japanese styles are fine. There are Western potters, print makers, gardeners, architects, woodworkers, etc. who are very influenced by Japanese aesthetics. I have no issue with that although I tend to think more highly of those who reference and honor their influences but have developed their own style as opposed to slavishly imitating their inspirations. In the case of knives I have more trouble with work that, to my eye, disrespects Japanese aesthetic traditions by being loud/attention seeking/garish. This could be either entire knives or some custom handles on Japanese knives. This is just personal take, there is no object measure, and I'm not referencing any specific makers.




Garrish to one is ornate to others.

But I make knifes for all sensibilities.


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## XooMG (Nov 9, 2018)

From my perspective, the logo is a little bit distasteful in both story and execution, but that kind of thing happens often in many markets (Asian companies aren't immune either). I think it's probably wiser for those without relevant literacy to refrain from judgment on trivial branding offense and instead deal with either the products themselves or the personality of the maker.


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## Interapid101 (Nov 9, 2018)

Wondering what y’all would think about my situation (even tho I’ve only ever forged one knife so far). I’m born and raised in the USA but my dad is an immigrant and I have a Chinese name. I only spoke Chinese when I was a kid, though. Would I have the “right” to put my Chinese name on a knife I made? I feel like I should have that right, but since I’m American, it seems that a lot of you would consider that inappropriate. Am I misunderstanding?


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## LostHighway (Nov 9, 2018)

Interapid101 said:


> Wondering what y’all would think about my situation (even tho I’ve only ever forged one knife so far). I’m born and raised in the USA but my dad is an immigrant and I have a Chinese name. I only spoke Chinese when I was a kid, though. Would I have the “right” to put my Chinese name on a knife I made? I feel like I should have that right, but since I’m American, it seems that a lot of you would consider that inappropriate. Am I misunderstanding?



Obviously, I can't speak for anyone else but I would have zero problem with you using your Chinese name. If anyone does have a problem with it I'll be interested to hear their logic.


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## aboynamedsuita (Nov 9, 2018)

My experience? I got blocked on Instagram because I liked a few comments made by others in response to one of his (which sort of passive-aggressively criticized an Australian chef)


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 9, 2018)

Interapid101 said:


> Wondering what y’all would think about my situation (even tho I’ve only ever forged one knife so far). I’m born and raised in the USA but my dad is an immigrant and I have a Chinese name. I only spoke Chinese when I was a kid, though. Would I have the “right” to put my Chinese name on a knife I made? I feel like I should have that right, but since I’m American, it seems that a lot of you would consider that inappropriate. Am I misunderstanding?


 
Gets my thumbs up? Go for it


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## crockerculinary (Nov 9, 2018)

Weren’t you trying to patent a grind? What became of that?


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## pennman (Nov 9, 2018)

crockerculinary said:


> Weren’t you trying to patent a grind? What became of that?


It’s patent pending right now with the USPTO.


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## Lazyboy (Nov 9, 2018)

pennman said:


> It’s patent pending right now with the USPTO.



What's the application number, I'm interesting in reading it


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## crockerculinary (Nov 9, 2018)

pennman said:


> It’s patent pending right now with the USPTO.


Can you tell us about it?


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## pennman (Nov 9, 2018)

crockerculinary said:


> Can you tell us about it?


Not yet. All in good time. And then I will be happy to discuss it in detail.


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## crockerculinary (Nov 9, 2018)

pennman said:


> Not yet. All in good time. And then I will be happy to discuss it in detail.


Aren’t you currently using it on your knives that are already out in the wild?


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## Ruso (Nov 9, 2018)

Patenting the grind of a knife, ***? 
Sound like a huge can of worm that should never be opened or to be closed ASAP.

No, seriously, ***!?


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## milkbaby (Nov 9, 2018)

Ruso said:


> Patenting the grind of a knife, ***?
> Sound like a huge can of worm that should never be opened or to be closed ASAP.
> 
> No, seriously, ***!?



Ehh, the patent office will decide yay or nay. It has to be novel and not an obvious extension to practitioners of the art, i.e. in this case knifemakers.


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## NO ChoP! (Nov 10, 2018)

I will be happy to see these knives make rounds within the forum community. We've all witnessed celebrity catapult one to fame, before actually grinding a single knife. I hope Stephen is ready for a community that will pay attention to the slightest nuance, and not simply be dazzled by the fancy.


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## Dan P. (Nov 10, 2018)

pennman said:


> It’s patent pending right now with the USPTO.



I hope you're not wasting any more money on it if it's the S-grind you were trying to scare me off last year, Stephen?


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## pennman (Nov 10, 2018)

Dan P. said:


> I hope you're not wasting any more money on it if it's the S-grind you were trying to scare me off last year, Stephen?



No. It certainly is not. And I’m sorry if I tried to scare you off of anything with you blades. I think they are excellent.


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## Gregmega (Nov 10, 2018)

Dan P. said:


> I hope you're not wasting any more money on it if it's the S-grind you were trying to scare me off last year, Stephen?



By the way, your new forged fuller knives look sick af my man. Love to try one on the boards. You should try and patent that. [emoji12]


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## Dan P. (Nov 10, 2018)

Gregmega said:


> By the way, your new forged fuller knives look sick af my man. Love to try one on the boards. You should try and patent that. [emoji12]



People have been forging fullers in knives since the Bronze Age, so that would be a toughie to patent.


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## Gregmega (Nov 10, 2018)

Dan P. said:


> People have been forging fullers in knives since the Bronze Age, so that would be a toughie to patent.



I know, just being facetious.


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## Dan P. (Nov 10, 2018)

Gregmega said:


> I know, just being facetious.



I know you know.


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## daveb (Nov 10, 2018)

Let's shut this one down. 

Stephen has joined the forum as a Pro Craftsman and I welcome him aboard. If you want to chat with him, drop a line in his sub-forum. If you want to chat about him, start a new thread out here. Thanks.


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