# CCK 1303 or CCK 1103



## jonhaber (Nov 9, 2012)

I see a lot of love for the 1303 on the forum. Is this the better choice over the bigger 1103? isn't bigger better 

1103

weight: 14.5oz
blade length: 227mm
overall length: 330mm
spine thickness at heel: 2.8mm
spine thickness at front: 1.1mm

1303

weight: 9.8oz
blade length: 214mm
overall length: 315mm
spine thickness at heel: 1.9mm


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## GlassEye (Nov 9, 2012)

I have the 1103 and wish it was bigger. I really like it, though.


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## chinacats (Nov 9, 2012)

I have the larger one as well and think it is perfect size. :2cents:


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## brainsausage (Nov 9, 2012)

jonhaber said:


> I see a lot of love for the 1303 on the forum. Is this the better choice over the bigger 1103? isn't bigger better
> 
> 1103
> 
> ...



I think it really comes down to personal preference. Do you have prior experience with chinese cleavers?


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## jonhaber (Nov 10, 2012)

none, also considering something i can get locally for $20 bucks cause i would have to order the cck online and the bigger one is $60


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## DwarvenChef (Nov 10, 2012)

I'm more of a fan of the 110* series myself. I have had both and over the years the 110* has held up the best... For Me. I gave the 130* to a fellow cook that is still using it


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## jonhaber (Nov 10, 2012)

can anyone compare these to the shibazi cleavers?


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## DwarvenChef (Nov 10, 2012)

jonhaber said:


> can anyone compare these to the shibazi cleavers?



Never seen one let alone felt one.


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## malacara (Nov 10, 2012)

I have got the bigger one, CCK 1103, and I like it a lot. Thin, light, perfect weight...

After trying and using different sizes of cleavers since I switched to them a bunch of years ago I much prefer full size cleavers, but that it´s my preference.

Have never tried or seen a Shibazi

Regards


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## brainsausage (Nov 10, 2012)

I think Andy reviewed a Shibazi over in the other forum a few years back. Imo, the 1303 is a good introductory cleaver, to help aid in the transition from a 'standard' chef's knife.


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## mpukas (Nov 10, 2012)

If you want a bigger cleaver, consider the 1301. I got one from Mark a while ago, but he doesn't have any up on his site atm. The 110* sereis is taller and thicker at the spine than the 130* series. I don't like very tall cleavers, and I really like the size and proportions of the 1301. At 240 on the spine, it's long for a cleaver. For some reason it's not as popular of a size.


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## jonhaber (Nov 11, 2012)

mmm 1101 is even bigger than the 1103


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## Lefty (Nov 11, 2012)

Funny, because the 1303 seemed huge to me. I found out, as cool as they are, I'm just not a cleaver guy. I piled one up a couple years back (a Shi-Ba-Zi) and really liked it for a few days, but once the novelty wore off, it's just found its way into a drawer. they're kind of "the other cleaver", compared to CCK; Both are well respected, but SBZ makes a huge array of knives, and the steel type ranges, just the same. 

For me, I'd go with a nakiri, then a 1303/or asimolar carbon slicing SBZ. The 110* are just too big for me.


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## jonnachang (Nov 12, 2012)

I have a 1102 and 1301,1302,much prefer1301.


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## rnortman (Dec 27, 2012)

I'm just bumping this thread up because I have the same question and I'd like to see more opinions. I have never used a Chinese cleaver before. I am pretty skilled with a Western chef's knife, so the switch to a cleaver will require some time for me. Am I better off starting with the smaller 1303? I see a lot of people saying that they prefer the larger blade of the 1103, but I am concerned that it will be too abrupt a change for me, coming from Western chef's knives. Can I realistically jump straight to a big cleaver and learn to use it pretty quickly?

(I am considering only the CCK 1303 or 1103, because those are the ones currently available to buy at reasonable prices.)


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## Crothcipt (Dec 27, 2012)

rnortman, I would do what was suggested to me if you don't know you are a cleaver fan then buy a cheap one, to get used to it. From what I have understood not everyone is, and you don't want to be "stuck" with something you hate.

A cheap dexter russel was suggested for under 50 on the bay.


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## jaybett (Dec 28, 2012)

A small cleaver will give you an idea of how cleavers perform. They are close enough in weight to western knives, that learning how to use them, should be fairly smooth. 

Nothing prepares a person, for the size and weight of a large cleaver. A knife that large needs to be guided, letting the weight do most of the work. 

The key to a large cleaver is the grip. While a pinch grip may work for short periods, the muscles in the hand and wrist will quickly tire. A better way to hold a large cleaver is extending the thumb and index finger down the sides of the blade. For more control, add the middle finger down the side, in what looks like an upside down peace sign. 

Overall it probably took a month, before I started to feel comfortable with a large cleaver. I was determined to learn how to use the knife. My goal was to find a knife that was small in length, but could do large amounts of prep. I'm a home cook, my kitchen is small. Family and friends kitchens are also small. 

A person who picks up a large cleaver, thinking it's a substitute for a gyuto, will be disappointed. The genius of a gyuto is how easily it can make most cuts. A large cleaver feels heavy and clunky in comparison. 

While a cleaver excels at chopping and push cutting, its strength is how efficiently it cuts. Lift the cleaver up, and let it fall through the food. The size of a cleaver allows to me to work at a good pace, without getting cut. Sort of a built in edge guard. I feel that I can work longer and get more done with a cleaver. 

Jay


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## rnortman (Dec 28, 2012)

jaybett said:


> A small cleaver will give you an idea of how cleavers perform. They are close enough in weight to western knives, that learning how to use them, should be fairly smooth.
> 
> Nothing prepares a person, for the size and weight of a large cleaver. A knife that large needs to be guided, letting the weight do most of the work.



This is sort of my quandry. Is there really any point in starting with a small cleaver if in a few months' time I am going to abandon it because it is not really a proper cleaver? Will small cleaver techniques even help me at all with using a large cleaver, or does it just allow me to clumsily adapt gyuto techniques and delay learning real cleaver techniques?

By the way, I didn't say it, but my knife work is 95% vegetable prep, and most of that is fine dicing and mincing. Occasionally I need to cut up a chicken, but I have a boning knife that I expect I'll continue to use for that. My biggest complaint with my Western chef's knife is how poorly it handles large quantities of onions, greens, etc. Also, cutting large root vegetables and squashes can be difficult.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 28, 2012)

All these CCk's mentioned are good cleavers.As said the 1301 is less popular than the 1303,but it is longer not much higher & still lite at 340 gm.Alot of edge on the board in a thin light blade is a good combination.

If you have never had a cleaver,the 1303 is a good introduction,you may grow to like using a cleaver,if not you are not out too much money.Encorage not to give up because it feels diff.,watch video's of Chinese chefs cutting up everything wt. a cleaver.


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## jaybett (Dec 28, 2012)

rnortman said:


> This is sort of my quandry. Is there really any point in starting with a small cleaver if in a few months' time I am going to abandon it because it is not really a proper cleaver? Will small cleaver techniques even help me at all with using a large cleaver, or does it just allow me to clumsily adapt gyuto techniques and delay learning real cleaver techniques?


A small cleaver is a proper cleaver. Using one, a person will get a good understanding of what a cleaver can do. 

The nakiri met most of my needs, until I had to prep large amounts of veggies for family gatherings. I went to a small cleaver, but it didn't make much of a difference. I tried a gyuto, but didn't like, that the flat area was less then my nakiri. Plus having a tip, wagging around, in a kitchen with kids running in and out. My hunch was that a cleaver could be the answer to my needs, small kitchen, large prep. Did a search on Google, and found the old forum. Talked to the cleaver users, and decided to try a large cleaver. 

There is something about large cleavers. At first I thought it was the size and weight people objected to, but its more then that. A person using a gyuto for the first time will find it to be a liberating experience, its light, thin, sharp, and easily makes most cuts. A cleaver is not light, but it is still thin and sharp. Instead of being liberating, the cleaver demands to be used in a certain way. 

The cleaver is the best knife, for chopping and push cutting. That being said, the gyuto is not that far behind. 

The biggest advantage to using a cleaver is how efficiently it cuts. The weight means the knife isn't going to move unintentionally. Lift the knife, put it over the food, and the weight will do most of the cutting. The size of the knife, means I can put my knuckles against the side of blade and cut as fast as I want, not having to worry about drawing blood. I feel that I can use a large cleaver, over a longer period of time, then a gyuto, because it is a much more efficient cutter. 

In your post, you mention that most of your knife work is vegetable prep, and that the majority of it is fine dicing and mincing. The knife that worked the best for fine dicing and mincing was a nakiri. The cleaver comes close to what a nakiri can do. 

You also mention that your chef's knife doesn't handle well large quantities of onions and greens. If your chef knife is a gyuto, it should easily be able to deal with onions and greens. If your chef knife, is from a German company, you really should look into a gyuto. Its a much easier knife to use, and does 95 percent of the cuts, needed in the kitchen. 

Large root vegetables and squashes are easier to cut with a thin gyuto or sujihiki, then a cleaver. There are some squashes, that are hard enough, that they get pounded open with a meat cleaver. 

Don't get me wrong. For chopping veggies or prepping large amounts of veggies, the cleaver is my go to knife. Hopefully I am giving you an idea of what to expect from a large cleaver. 

Jay


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## rnortman (Dec 28, 2012)

My chef's knife is an 8" Forschner/Victorinox with Fibrox handle. Not fancy by any means, but it does well enough. I find the blade is too small to use as a scoop for transporting chopped veggies in the way I see cleavers being used. Also when chopping onions, the pieces stick to the knife and then come up and over the top of the knife as I go, and I sometimes find myself stopping to wipe off the knife after every cut, or every other. When it come time to chop a big bunch of kale or other greens, I find it not quite big enough. It sort of just gets lost in the pile of greens. I suppose I could just try a 10" Forschner.

The Japanese knives are mostly out of my price range. I would love to try a $200+ gyuto, but I don't think that's in the cards in the near future. The Chinese cleavers appeal to me because the CCKs are available within my price range and seem to be highly regarded.


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## steeley (Dec 28, 2012)

I was just at Chef City the restaurant supply here in San Diego and they had about 20 CCK'S 
so if your in the area and want to handle before you buy .and the price is in line with other places .


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## rnortman (Dec 28, 2012)

You know, come to think of it, I have a Forschner santoku that's been languishing in my drawer for a few years. I bought it when santokus were all the rage and quickly gave up on it. But I was probably trying to do a rocking cut like I'm used to with my chef's knife. I should try again with push cut and chop motions, to see how I fare with those. If I find I can't get used to those techniques on the santoku, perhaps I should give up on the cleaver idea entirely.


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## jonhaber (Dec 28, 2012)

fwiw I went with the smaller cck (op here). I went with it cause it mostly because it was cheaper and wanted to try a cleaver. Very nice knife. The small is still a nice size, big enough for most work (haven't used it a lot yet though), and fits nicely in my drawer as I didn't have space on my magnetic rack. Happy I went with the smaller option esp as a home cook. 

All this said my fav knife right now is my dojo nakiri and I have a more expensive 240 gyuto, extra wide santoku as well, ect..


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## jaybett (Dec 28, 2012)

The 1103 or 1303 will be a significant upgrade over the Forschner. Thin CCK cleavers cut nearly as well as the more expensive Japanese brands. The steel is softer, so the edge doesn't last very long. They are very easy to sharpen. Some people prefer ease of sharpening over edge retention. 

You may find that cleavers do not suit you. It's not a wasted effort though. I've found that learning how to use a large cleaver improved my overall knife skills. There isn't a knife that doesn't feel too large in my hands. 

In your previous post you mentioned that you do a lot of fine dicing and mincing. That is easier on a small cleaver. I can dice and mince, nearly as well, on a large cleaver, plus I have advantages of a large cleaver. Since I've learned how to use a large cleaver, I haven't gone back to a nakiri or small cleaver. 

Jay


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 30, 2012)

As mentioned by a couple other's the 1301 is longer than 1303.The 1301 is a cutting machine,lite,long,carbon steel that gets very sharp,& thin,glides thu food.You can cut all you veg's.lettuce,piece of cake.much more blade on the board than a Santoku & it just cost a little more than a 1303.


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## rnortman (Jan 3, 2013)

The 1301 seems harder to come by than the 1303 right now, unless somebody knows of an economical source in or shipping to NC, USA. My local Asian markets don't carry CCK that I've seen.


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## jimbob (Jan 3, 2013)

ive got one on order from cookwarekitchenware.com. they have the full cck range, at what seems standard pricing. shipping to ozzy was 15, not sure about us....


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## Jmadams13 (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm interested in how it goes ordering from them. I know of a few here, myself included that have thought about it, but just felt too iffy about ordering from them. Please let us know when you receive your order, or if you have any issues in billing or shipping. I understand your in AUS, but us USers can still find the info useful 

Joe


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## mindbender (Jan 6, 2013)

jonhaber said:


> can anyone compare these to the shibazi cleavers?



The Shibazi cleaver that I have is heavy and sort of cheap. The weight allows it to cut bones or heavy tissue, but it is worthless for vegetable cutting. I'll use my Fanatic for the veggie work (if I'm not using a Gyuto).

If you're looking for precise chopping/mincing, don't bother with the Shibazi - it's more or less a bone cutter (at least the one I have).


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## rnortman (Jan 9, 2013)

I decided to give the CCK 1303 a try, and it arrived today. My first impression is that it doesn't feel as big in my hand as I'd expected after reading a number of reviews along the lines of "when you actually see this knife, it's going to be surprisingly big". It was not surprisingly big. My first thought was that I should have gotten the bigger one (as several people here suggested). The factory edge was sharp but not scary sharp. I was able to sharpen it enough to (barely, not comfortably) shave my arm hair, which is no better and no worse than I've done with my Forschner stainless knives.

My current impression is that I am pretty likely to order a larger cleaver before too long, but we'll see how I feel after using it for a while. (I'll post an update here.)


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## jimbob (Jan 10, 2013)

Jmadams13 said:


> I'm interested in how it goes ordering from them. I know of a few here, myself included that have thought about it, but just felt too iffy about ordering from them. Please let us know when you receive your order, or if you have any issues in billing or shipping. I understand your in AUS, but us USers can still find the info useful
> 
> Joe



1303 arrived. Absolutely no problems at any stage of the process. Provided with hong kong post tracking number. Stanley was quick to respond to my queries and helpful. Took two weeks over christmas and new years so happy with that too. Thumbs up. Now, to sharpen and chop!


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## vicv (Jan 19, 2013)

I find it hard to believe people calling the 13xx series a "small cleaver". I have the 1301. It's enormous. It's 240 long and 4" tall. I honestly can't see a need for the 11xx series. Now my myland slicer is a small cleaver. Profile is awful though and it's basically become my bread knife


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## leiatlarge (Nov 10, 2014)

Had a chance to try the 1103 at a local restaurant supply store here and really like the weight of it. However, the spin is much thicker than I expected. I'm coming from using gyutos and worried the 1103 will be difficult to make delicate thin cuts. I also feel like the 1301 is too large, I only need a knife about 21cm long and concerned the 1303 is too light to throw its weight around on the cutting board.

Users of the 1103, once you put a 15-degree edge on the blade, how difficult to make paper-thin cuts?


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## chinacats (Nov 10, 2014)

Not sure if they've changed the 1103, but the spine on mine is thin. I'm not home right now to measure but pretty sure it is thinner than any of my gyutos. Don't know about what angle is on mine, maybe 15/side but it will cut paper thin slices of food.
Cheers


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 10, 2014)

Yes the spine is pretty thin on the 1103, the extra metal makes it about 70g heavier at 340g, still kind of light for a cleaver. The 1303 is a good starting point for trying a cleaver. You can still get them at Chinese Chef's Mall for 46.00 & cheap shipping. It is a smaller light blade 270g 20 x 9 x 0.2.

They are good for most slicing & chopping, fruits, vegetables, meat without bone. Years ago tried putting a steeper bevel on them to split Lobster, shell, claw & knuckle. The edge took a beating just too thin. Got a thicker CCK from Chinatown solved the problem. Around the same small size but quite a bit more weight. Think it is the CCK Vegetable cleaver small KF 1923 Carbon Steel 20.3 x 9 x .45. 400g. Thin behind the edge when sharpening, final bevel 15-20% each side. With Crab and Lobster the extra weight is good & can shave knuckle shell in one sweep.


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## leiatlarge (Nov 10, 2014)

chinacats said:


> Not sure if they've changed the 1103, but the spine on mine is thin. I'm not home right now to measure but pretty sure it is thinner than any of my gyutos. Don't know about what angle is on mine, maybe 15/side but it will cut paper thin slices of food.
> Cheers



Based on Chefs Mall and in the store, the 1103's spine is ~3mm, which feels pretty thick to me. I'm more used to more of a ~2mm spine. Its thickness is somewhere between my deba and gyuto, is that right?


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## chinacats (Nov 10, 2014)

leiatlarge said:


> Based on Chefs Mall and in the store, the 1103's spine is ~3mm, which feels pretty thick to me. I'm more used to more of a ~2mm spine. Its thickness is somewhere between my deba and gyuto, is that right?



Just measured mine at 2.5mm over the heel (beginning of spine) and it is thinner than 5 out of 6 of my 240's. The sixth happens to also be 2.5mm.

For a knife that is ~225 x 110 to weigh in at 360 g's including handle is to me pretty light. By comparison to other full size cleavers, I believe this to be as light as any? Keith, did you weigh yours at 342? I've removed quite a bit of metal from mine and just weighed it.

BTW, I don't own any debas but believe the spines run 7-9mm for comparison. Curious what gyutos you are using--all pretty thin lasers I assume?

Cheers


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 10, 2014)

I sold my 1303 & 1103 for cheap when I retired. Also my bone & lobster cleavers later on as not using for home use. All my CCK carbons are gone. Was going by weight on Chinese Chef Mall. Bought all my CCK's in Chinatown here over the years. I remember getting CCK 1303 for 25.00. 

Those big hunks of steel sitting on my mag block getting rust spots. Never could find a Chinese stainless I liked, had to go Japanese Tojiro Medium VG-10 around 1# and a Sugimoto Vegetable CM 3040. Both needed work out of the box. Tojiro cut the bolt of the back & sealed up the metal collar with epoxy. The Sugimoto rounded the spine and choil. Both have good grinds and are excellent cutters.

Not a total lost cause still use carbon Gyuto, just switched to Stainless with Cleavers no regrets


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## leiatlarge (Nov 11, 2014)

chinacats said:


> BTW, I don't own any debas but believe the spines run 7-9mm for comparison. Curious what gyutos you are using--all pretty thin lasers I assume?



Gyuto is a Masamoto Tsukiji 270mm V1 (virgin steel), just measured spin at the heel at 2mm. I really love this knife and wish I also got the 240mm version instead, which is why I'm considering a Chinese cleaver as a shorter knife that's easier to work with. The Aritsugu Tsukiji Deba is 160mm and 6mm at the heel. The Santoku Artisugu I have is 4mm at the heel and I barely notice how thick that is. So maybe a 3mm heel on the 1103 is not so bad.

Thanks!


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