# Which one should I buy?



## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

hallo.. i am a student.. and this is my last year.. soon i will be professional cook and i want to buy a good japanese knife..I've worked in one of the best restaurants in Greece, Corfu, the "Etrusco" and i can say that i have a lot of experience for begginer to use japanese knives.. 
I would like you know your opinion about these knives.. 
which one is better?? 

http://japanesechefsknife.com/Page4.html (santoku 160mm)

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-TOJIRO-DP-Cobalt-Santoku-Knife-170mm-/230775725163

Thanks!!


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## Andrew H (Sep 22, 2012)

Are you sure you want a santoku? Most people here prefer gyuto.

If you are dead set on one of those two knives, I'd go with the hiromoto.


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## pitonboy (Sep 22, 2012)

Andrew H said:


> Are you sure you want a santoku? Most people here prefer gyuto.
> 
> If you are dead set on one of those two knives, I'd go with the hiromoto.



+1


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

Andrew H said:


> Are you sure you want a santoku? Most people here prefer gyuto.
> 
> If you are dead set on one of those two knives, I'd go with the hiromoto.



i got a Gyuto knife too... but not good quality (no japanese) .. it is 21cm and its not comfortable enought .. that is the reason for me.. i want shorter knife becuase i think that i should cut faster and with more comfort!! what do you think... am i correct?


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## chinacats (Sep 22, 2012)

Greetings! Good luck in your search.


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## Andrew H (Sep 22, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> i got a Gyuto knife too... but not good quality (no japanese) .. it is 21cm and its not comfortable enought .. that is the reason for me.. i want shorter knife becuase i think that i should cut faster and with more comfort!! what do you think... am i correct?



I like narrow knives also. If you look at the blade width measurements, the hiromoto santoku is only 1mm narrower than the hiromoto gyuto (42mm vs. 43mm). Personally, I would try and find a narrower gyuto than go with a santoku just for blade height reasons.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

thanks!! Tell me please what are your selection characteristics for a knife..


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## pitonboy (Sep 22, 2012)

If you are going to be a pro and don't have unlimited money, a guyto will be more likely to encompass all your cutting needs, whereas a santoku is good for cutting veggies but lacks the point with which to do detail work. The other thing is, more blade length will allow you to cut more per stroke than a shorter blade, also important as a pro. Finally, your knife skills will improve enough to feel comfortable with a longer (good quality) knife


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## Andrew H (Sep 22, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> thanks!! Tell me please what are your selection characteristics for a knife..



There are so many different things to look for it's hard to say. I think your best option when starting out is to go for a knife that people tend to like and is inexpensive. The CarboNext is one: http://japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html
Japanese knife imports (http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/) also offers some nice starting knives (Gesshin Uraku, Gesshin Kagero and Suisin Inox Western). However, JKI won't be shipping again for around a month, the proprietors are in Japan for the month.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

i have a gyuto knife and i think tha a cook also need a santoku knife.. my cutting skills are good (but i can improve them more) so i think that if i have 3 knives.. (santoku, gyuto, petty) its ok... i can do my job!!


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

Andrew H said:


> There are so many different things to look for it's hard to say. I think your best option when starting out is to go for a knife that people tend to like and is inexpensive. The CarboNext is one: http://japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html
> Japanese knife imports (http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/) also offers some nice starting knives (Gesshin Uraku, Gesshin Kagero and Suisin Inox Western). However, JKI won't be shipping again for around a month, the proprietors are in Japan for the month.



i dont like circle handles... like Gesshin.. i dont know.. may be because i am begginer!! 
santoku is perfect for me... i try santoku and i think it is better for me!! 
do you know other sites to order knives?


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## bieniek (Sep 22, 2012)

No other website offers so good a deal on postage as JCK does. 

I dont like Hiromoto, I had one and it is very low. What do you like about it? That you have chosen that ?


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## Andrew H (Sep 22, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> i dont like circle handles... like Gesshin.. i dont know.. may be because i am begginer!!
> santoku is perfect for me... i try santoku and i think it is better for me!!
> do you know other sites to order knives?



That's fine, some people just don't like them. Gesshin Kagero and Suisin Inox Western both have western handles. If you have your eyes set on the santoku, go for it. It's relatively inexpensive.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

bieniek said:


> No other website offers so good a deal on postage as JCK does.
> 
> I dont like Hiromoto, I had one and it is very low. What do you like about it? That you have chosen that ?



have you got Hiromoto? which one?? i chose it because it is 17cm and it is a little cheaper than others santoku.. sure the quality is not to hight like Hittori for example.. but what can i do? i am student yet and i havent got too much money available for knife.. leter i will choose better!!


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## bieniek (Sep 22, 2012)

I had 24cm chefs knife.

I sold it cause 48 mm in height is way too low for me. Now I use knives that are minimum 52, and it feel pretty much on the borderline for me. 

And I think even in this price bracket there are better cutting knives than Hiromoto, and the steel well I dont want to say its bad, but its tasteless.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

have you any suggestion for that price? max 80$ !!


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

is these better? 
http://www.**************.com/todpdasa16.html
http://www.**************.com/toshsa161.html (it is true that It rusts)?


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## Cutty Sharp (Sep 22, 2012)

Not true about santoku lacking a point. They exist. Here's my Kiya 180mm (posted recently re: polishing) and I'd say the shape is kind of like a miniature Takeda gyuto, isn't it? I think of it as a nakiri - good at chopping and manoeuvrable, though not quite as thin as my nakiri - but with that point, and you can even rock with it some too. Probably the one I grab the most, though this has something to do with me not being too worried about care with this one.

View attachment 10166


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## Johnny.B.Good (Sep 22, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> is these better?



That retailer will only ship those particular knives to addresses the U.S. (why that is, I don't know). I would probably stick with Japanese Chef's Knife (quick and inexpensive shipping all over the world, and a large selection of relatively inexpensive offerings); or you might find something nice that's close to your budget in the buy/sell/trade area area.

I can't really help you with your decision, as I don't own a santoku and haven't tried many knives in your price range. The JCK CarboNext series is frequently recommended, but the santoku (180mm) is over your budget a little at $100.

How are you planning on keeping your new purchase sharp? This deserves consideration as well.

Welcome to the forum, and good luck with your decision.


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## Cutty Sharp (Sep 22, 2012)

Johnny.B.Good said:


> How are you planning on keeping your new purchase sharp? This deserves consideration as well.



Yes - get a combination 1000/6000 whetstone.


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## bieniek (Sep 22, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> have you any suggestion for that price? max 80$ !!



http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html

18cm santoku for 78 bucks with postage

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKMSeries.html

Stainless


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

thanks for information.. we have in university sharpening stones.. so i will sharp them in university until i buy mine!!

my girlfriend (she is cook too) buy Shun Wasabi (35euro) knife.. but i havent use it yet.. what do you think.. hiromoto or shun is better?


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

Cutty Sharp said:


> Not true about santoku lacking a point. They exist. Here's my Kiya 180mm (posted recently re: polishing) and I'd say the shape is kind of like a miniature Takeda gyuto, isn't it? I think of it as a nakiri - good at chopping and manoeuvrable, though not quite as thin as my nakiri - but with that point, and you can even rock with it some too. Probably the one I grab the most, though this has something to do with me not being too worried about care with this one.
> 
> View attachment 10166


 h
how much it costs?


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

bieniek said:


> http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html
> 
> 18cm santoku for 78 bucks with postage
> 
> ...


hmmm.... good suggestions.. i like more the 2nd one.. but tell me please.. why to buy one of these and not hiromoto... i ask because i want to learn!!


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## Cutty Sharp (Sep 22, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> h how much it costs?



Sorry - can't remember exactly, but around JPY 14,000 in Tokyo. I think more than you wanted to pay. It's pretty good, but I agree with some others that if you get one knife then get a gyuto. This knife is popular for Japanese home cooks working in small home kitchens; it would probably make a good wedding gift, though the Japanese just tend to give money for weddings. Anyway, that's why it's good for me and my tiny counterspace, though I have gyutos too and would definitely use one in culinary school or a pro kitchen instead. You need a longer blade and the ability to cut more in less time. Another option - more for during service - might be a 210mm sujihiki/petty as a go-to knife. Not that big and can keep at hand for so many tasks.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 22, 2012)

good price i think!! i want to visit Tokyo,too !!!


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## gozzila100 (Sep 23, 2012)

i think i will buy hiromoto.. dont know why. may be because i got also gyuto knife (medium quality) and i want shorter knife like santoku... i wish i take the right decision..


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## gozzila100 (Sep 23, 2012)

guys!!! this is not good knife? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-TO...934?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bfc4ee06


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## Cutty Sharp (Sep 23, 2012)

No idea about the quality, but looks so petite. Maybe it's got a big handle which makes the blade look smaller; I don't know. Is there a 180mm? It's got a bit of a 'point' though, which is useful, and a kurouchi finish which will make it easier to care for.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 23, 2012)

it is 165mm... i it a little short.. but i seen in youtube that it is very sharp!


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## gozzila100 (Sep 23, 2012)

Okk... lets vote!! 

HIROMOTO?
TOJIRO SHIROGAMI ?
FKM?


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## bieniek (Sep 23, 2012)

Fujiwara


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## chinacats (Sep 23, 2012)

1-fujiwara
2-hiromoto

no tojiro


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## kalaeb (Sep 23, 2012)

1. Fuji
2. Hiromoto (needs some thinning).


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## Taz575 (Sep 23, 2012)

Fujiwara hands down. Great Fit and Finish, the stainless takes a holds a nice edge from the 150mm petty's I have gotten to play with. Handle fit is pretty dang nice for a knife that inexpensive!!


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## skewed (Sep 23, 2012)

The Tojiro Shirogami knives are pretty neat for the price but really need an investment of time to bring out their potential. They are carbon steel with a soft iron clad that is pretty reactive. Takes some extra care which isn't always convenient in a busy kitchen. I have a few but spent a good amount of time on them. They usually have some small grind issues, handle needs to be sanded and oiled, spin/coil needs rounded and resetting of bevels. The white #2 does take a very sharp edge with very little effort.

With saying that, I think the Tojiro DP or Fujiwara in VG10 are fantastic first knives. Both have pretty good fit and finish, fairly nice ootb edges, are stainless and VG10 is a nice steel that takes a nice edge. Great price point too.

VG10 does take more work on the stones to make sure the wire edge is removed and if you drop your sharpening angle too low they can be prone to micro chipping. It responds well to loaded strops and holds an edge fairly well.

VG10 gets my vote either the Tojiro DP or Fujiwara.

After 5yrs of owning several DP's, I still really like them.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 23, 2012)

lets continue voting until 0:00
thanks for help!! 
1 question.. what is exactly DP ? what it means?


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## cclin (Sep 23, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> lets continue voting until 0:00
> thanks for help!!
> 1 question.. what is exactly DP ? what it means?



http://www.**************.com/tojirodpseries.html


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## gozzila100 (Sep 24, 2012)

i also find this.. 
http://www.nagomijapan.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189&products_id=1168 (i also like this) 

http://www.nagomijapan.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189&products_id=1160

http://www.nagomijapan.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189&products_id=1158

from a e-bay seller!! what do you think?


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## Taz575 (Sep 24, 2012)

I got a couple of these, the handle fit and finish is good, haven't used the blade yet, but the grinds look good and evenly done:
http://j-cutlery.com/dpsan25001.html

More santoku's:
http://j-cutlery.com/kitchen-knives---kitchen-tools-kitchen-knives-by-types-santoku.html


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## Cadillac J (Sep 24, 2012)

I love the blade shape of the 210mm Fujiwara gyuto that I used to have....with a nicely sharpened edge, its a heck of a knife for $75.


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## Deckhand (Sep 24, 2012)

DP is just a line like Senkou

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/tojiro/santoku-knives

I am not a tojiro hater. I have a tojiro DP and senkou paring knife I like them. I think the fit and finish is a little higher on the senkou. I love my tojiro ITK bread knife. That being said my santoku is a misono ux10.


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## Chefdog (Sep 24, 2012)

If its not too late, check out the santoku and the 185mm gyuto here:
http://japan-blades.com/category/chef-knives/by-brand/minamoto-kotetsu


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## ThEoRy (Sep 24, 2012)

I usually just stay away from santoku threads now. I have three of them and none of them come to work with me anymore.


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## Deckhand (Sep 24, 2012)

[SUB][/SUB]


ThEoRy said:


> I usually just stay away from santoku threads now. I have three of them and none of them come to work with me anymore.



I can truly appreciate that.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 25, 2012)

i think im gonna buy this one!! 
http://www.nagomijapan.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189&products_id=1168 
it is on sale... :/


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## gozzila100 (Sep 25, 2012)

Guys!! do you know where can i buy leather case for knives?? not too expensive!!!


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## gozzila100 (Sep 25, 2012)

or this.. http://japan-blades.com/big-seller/1142.html or
Fujiwara


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## Deckhand (Sep 25, 2012)

Home made saya cardboard and duck tape is another option.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 25, 2012)

Deckhand said:


> Home made saya cardboard and duck tape is another option.



what is that?


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## Taz575 (Sep 25, 2012)

You take 2 pieces of cardboard, stick the blade between then and wrap with duct tape. Instant sheath! LOL. I guess you could get a wood one and then wrap it in leather for the knives? I think there may be some guys here who can do a leather sheath or butchers belt type thing.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 25, 2012)

oh... i understand what you mean... but i have a lot of Kitchen tools... so i want to have them all together in a bag!!


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## Deckhand (Sep 25, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> oh... i understand what you mean... but i have a lot of Kitchen tools... so i want to have them all together in a bag!!



This is a good one. Lots of different sellers carry it. 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NEGSTS...&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&ref=asc_df_B002NEGSTS


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## Cadillac J (Sep 25, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> or this.. http://japan-blades.com/big-seller/1142.html



If you like that line, I would suggest the gyuto from there...it is small for a gyuto, but just a tad bigger than the santoku. Almost guarantee in time you will be happier with a gyuto tip than the santoku
http://japan-blades.com/category/chef-knives/by-brand/minamoto-kotetsu

Although I've never tried that maker, 19c27 hardened to 60hrc sounds pretty good to me if it acts anything like the Suisin Inox Honyaki line.


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## bieniek (Sep 26, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> i think im gonna buy this one!!
> http://www.nagomijapan.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189&products_id=1168
> it is on sale... :/



Whatever you choose, just make sure you also know postage rates.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 26, 2012)

bieniek said:


> Whatever you choose, just make sure you also know postage rates.



i think shipping cost includes everythink.. or not? will i pay extra money when i receive the item?


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## bieniek (Sep 27, 2012)

I mean, JCK's postage rate is 7 dollars. 

Many sends to Europe for 40 dollars. And then the price of the knife aint no that attractive.


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## gozzila100 (Sep 27, 2012)

oh... i understand... you are right.. tha is the reason i will buy from JKC


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## gozzila100 (Sep 27, 2012)

finally i buy Fujiwara Kanefusa FKM No.7 Santoku 180mm... i hope it is correct choice..


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## chinacats (Sep 27, 2012)

Awesome, let us know how you like it when it arrives! Good luck!


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## gozzila100 (Sep 27, 2012)

i will create a video!! 
to show it!!!


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## Cutty Sharp (Sep 27, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> finally i buy Fujiwara Kanefusa FKM No.7 Santoku 180mm... i hope it is correct choice..



At last! Now time to rest


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## gozzila100 (Oct 1, 2012)

what kind of sharpening stones i need to sharpen this knife???

What material should it be?


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## ThEoRy (Oct 1, 2012)

Beston 500, bester 1200 and rika 5k are the most popular choices.

http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/Dave-Martell-set-sharpening-stones-p/set1dmcore.htm


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## Cutty Sharp (Oct 1, 2012)

Yup. Just buy them.


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## stevenStefano (Oct 1, 2012)

For stones, Maxim sells quite a few and they all have a good reputation, he is based in Denmark so it might save you some shipping costs


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## gozzila100 (Oct 1, 2012)

Cutty Sharp said:


> Yup. Just buy them.



all of them?? i thought i need just 1


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## gozzila100 (Oct 1, 2012)

stevenStefano said:


> For stones, Maxim sells quite a few and they all have a good reputation, he is based in Denmark so it might save you some shipping costs



i search for maxim in internet and i find nude girls!!


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## Johnny.B.Good (Oct 1, 2012)

Maxim is a member/vendor here with his own subforum, and the proprietor of Japanese Natural Stones.


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## Cutty Sharp (Oct 1, 2012)

If you're going to buy just one, then get a combo medium/fine I'd say. I don't know the best brand for this, but for example something like this:

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?pf_id=01.096

Just be sure you don't damage the blade, because if you do you'll need a coarse stone (for example 400 grit) to reshape/repair it. If you just have a med/fine you'll be okay for a while but in the future you'll still need a coarse one to thin your blade.


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## gozzila100 (Oct 1, 2012)

ok... thanks.. i will take a look!!


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## gozzila100 (Oct 1, 2012)

but what is these numbers for stones? 1000, 500 ... what they mean?


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## mano (Oct 1, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> but what is these numbers for stones? 1000, 500 ... what they mean?



"And awaaay we go!" - Jackie Gleason


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## James (Oct 1, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> but what is these numbers for stones? 1000, 500 ... what they mean?



the numbers designate the grit rating. the lower the number, the coarser the stone. to start off, I think something in the 1000 (1K) grit range would be appropriate and maybe something in the 4000-6000 range as well. 

generally, stones around 500 are used for repairing blades (removing chips and nicks) and quickly setting bevels. 1K is a good place to start sharpening and 4-6k will refine the 1k edge


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## gozzila100 (Oct 1, 2012)

so i need a 1000 stone!! may be 1000 and 4000 or 6000.. 2 stones.. i am right?


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## Cutty Sharp (Oct 1, 2012)

gozzila100 said:


> so i need a 1000 stone!! may be 1000 and 4000 or 6000.. 2 stones.. i am right?



Yes! 

Above I wrote you should get a combination med/fine stone. That means a 1000 on one side, and 5 or 6000 on the other. You said you would look at the link I posted. So have you?

Evidence:



gozzila100 said:


> ok... thanks.. i will take a look!!



You'll have to do some of your own research to decide what you need. Good luck! :bye:

Over and out!


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## bieniek (Oct 1, 2012)

All you need is one stone. Just one stone. 

I dont have a clue why would you need three when you dont even have a clue yet how to use any of them? 

Just look up for KING KDS 1K/6K combo stone It should cost around 50 euros total and you can order from Germany 

http://www.fine-tools.com/kombischleifstein.html

there is also smaller sizes, but dont go that way. Its not worth it saving 10 euro/


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## gozzila100 (Oct 1, 2012)

Cutty Sharp said:


> Yes!
> 
> Above I wrote you should get a combination med/fine stone. That means a 1000 on one side, and 5 or 6000 on the other. You said you would look at the link I posted. So have you?
> 
> ...



i just saw your reply... thanks for imformation.. i understand..


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## gozzila100 (Oct 1, 2012)

bieniek said:


> All you need is one stone. Just one stone.
> 
> I dont have a clue why would you need three when you dont even have a clue yet how to use any of them?
> 
> ...



thanks for the help too...


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## bieniek (Oct 1, 2012)

no worries, I could blow smoke up your arse but being honest is better. 

Me myself for start I wasnt rich[ not that im now] and actually had a big hole in my pocket - like the choice was, buy food or buy month transportation ticket, so if you bought a knife for 80 dollars, dont buy stone setup for 150...

Get one stone, learn to sharpen, this will make you respect your knife more and understand and appreciate it better. 
After, if youre the edge kind of guy, you can build up your setup - not every chef, even good one, wants to spend hours and bucks for sharpening, and dont get that numbers to your head! 5 stones doesnt leave you with more useful edge than 2 stones or combo stone.


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## gozzila100 (Oct 1, 2012)

i ask a friend for sharpening stone... he tell me that 1000/3000 is good for begginers.. it is not important to spend too much money to buy 1000/6000... what do you think.. i agree with your opinion... and my friend says the same with you!!


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## bieniek (Oct 1, 2012)

Yes, good friend you have. 

But in some cses the 1000/3000 might be more expensive than the king


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## SpikeC (Oct 1, 2012)

Or a cement block and hunk of cardboard!


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## gozzila100 (Oct 2, 2012)

SpikeC said:


> Or a cement block and hunk of cardboard!


does it work?? i think it is going to damage the knife!!


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## SpikeC (Oct 2, 2012)

Search YouTube for Murray Carter sharpening and you should be able to find the clip.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 2, 2012)

SpikeC said:


> Search YouTube for Murray Carter sharpening and you should be able to find the clip.



[video=youtube;CXLaE1JvQ94]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXLaE1JvQ94[/video]


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## gozzila100 (Oct 3, 2012)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> [video=youtube;CXLaE1JvQ94]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXLaE1JvQ94[/video]



i am not going to sharpen my knife like this.. :/


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