# Top 5 affordable White Steel #1 gyutos



## Flounce (Apr 26, 2011)

Ever since stumbling across a forum discussion about the virtues of white steel #1, I've been looking for a white steel #1 gyuto that 1) not too expensive and 2) is not too thick. 

I can't find one. The one's I've seen are very expensive. Hence my question, 

What are the Top 5 most affordable white steel #1 gyutos?

(I know affordable is relative, I mean something priced at the lower end of the scale for white steel #1 gyutos)


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## Aphex (Apr 26, 2011)

I think Konosuke makes a white #1 gyuto under their premium Fujiwara line. Price wise, Konosuke's tend to be great value so shouldn't be shockingly more expensive than the standard white #2.


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## Cadillac J (Apr 26, 2011)

Any reason why you are looking for white#1 instead of the much more common/available/offered white#2?


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## mpukas (Apr 26, 2011)

Here's a great breakdown of steels used in Japanese kithcen knives. 

The Sakai Yusuke white steel wa-gyuto from Blue Way Japan is a good value for white #2.


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## Rottman (Apr 26, 2011)

Flounce said:


> What are the Top 5 most affordable white steel #1 gyutos?


 
Carter uses white #1 in his clad knives SFGZ and High Grade (the ones marked with a "W" on the blade, the other ones are AS) . Great cutters but are they affordable?


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## cnochef (Apr 26, 2011)

Rottman said:


> Carter uses white #1 in his clad knives SFGZ and High Grade (the ones marked with a "W" on the blade, the other ones are AS) . Great cutters but are they affordable?


 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Carter uses AS steel. True the W on his blade is for white #1, but the S on his blade designates Super ie. Blue steel right?


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## SpikeC (Apr 26, 2011)

AS is super blue.


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## Flounce (Apr 26, 2011)

Cadillac J said:


> Any reason why you are looking for white#1 instead of the much more common/available/offered white#2?


 

Thanks everyone. 

I'm new to this, and the only reason I'm looking for white #1 is the enthusiasm of a number of people on knifeforums.com on how "retarded sharp" white #1 can get. 

If you feel that white #2 is fairly close to white #1 in how "retarded sharp" it comes off the stones, perhaps I can modify the original question:

"What are your 5 favorite White #2 gyutos under $300 ? "


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## Rottman (Apr 26, 2011)

Flounce said:


> "What are your 5 favorite White #2 gyutos under $300 ? "



Konosuke 270, great knife, the only white #2 gyuto I have (fwiw the Tadatsuna white should be very similar).


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## UglyJoe (Apr 26, 2011)

If you like white and are willing to go shorter, the carter SFGZ series is a good knife with a ****** handle. A funayuki at abut 210 shouldn't run much more than $300-350 in this line. Maybe less.


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## Lefty (Apr 26, 2011)

Why spend so much on a knife that wasn't given any attention to detail?
I like Carter, but those knives bug me at many levels.


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## Cadillac J (Apr 26, 2011)

Rottman said:


> Konosuke 270, great knife, the only white #2 gyuto I have (fwiw the Tadatsuna white should be very similar).


 
Right on...I'll add Sakai Yusuke as well.


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## mattrud (Apr 26, 2011)

I own a konosuke fujiyama white #1 gyuto and a carter ip white one gyuto, completely different knives, both great knives, both not affordable, I search a lot for white 1 gyuto

there are very very, and not many I would call affordable, but.... you never know, as another thread here mentioned, many times you get what you pay for


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## UglyJoe (Apr 27, 2011)

Lefty said:


> Why spend so much on a knife that wasn't given any attention to detail?
> I like Carter, but those knives bug me at many levels.


 
I think that's going way overboard. The handle is bad. The handle on many, of not most, very expensive Japanese knives aren't much better stock. The blades themselves are very, very good, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has handled them to argue otherwise. I know Carter has a bad rap with some of you guys, but were talking about a ABS mastersmith generating handforged blades in smallish but reasonable size for less than $400. That's a hell of a deal, in my book, regardless of what you think about the handle. Right now he has a 180 nakiri on his site, high grade series, polished blade, ho handle with buffalo horn ferrule that looks just as good as what one would expect from any of the good Japanese makers, for $360. Find another ABS mastersmith that you could pick up a knife like that if you wanted it at that price TONIGHT. He has a short funayuki available now for less than $175! I think the Carter distaste is way overstated by a lot of you guys.


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## festally (Apr 27, 2011)

Thus far, I can get white #2 stupidly sharper than the others steels I&#8217;ve tried and have read that white #1 get&#8217;s even more stupidly sharp w/ better retention. Supposedly, #1 is much harder to work with than #2, so the smiths and knives are likely going to be more higher end. You might want to reach out to Jbroida @JapaneseKnifeImports, iirc he's a big fan of white #1 and may have some insights.


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## Lefty (Apr 27, 2011)

Uglyjoe,
I like Carter's "finished" knives quite a bit and he's a big part of why I only sharpen on two/sometimes three grits. I love that he has let us know that we don't need five stones before stropping, assuming you have a stable edge, to have a wicked sharp knife.
In my opinion, he should just sell unhandled rat tail blades (for us to put our own handles on), or his fully finished, breath taking pieces he is capable of.
I would love to own a Carter one day...besides, he's Canadian....


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## cnochef (Apr 27, 2011)

SpikeC said:


> AS is super blue.


 
Thanks for clearing that up! I actually did not know that, or ever make that connection. I thought they were different.


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## Lefty (Apr 27, 2011)

Just to further explain myself, I have NO PROBLEM, whatsoever with this...in fact I like it...a lot!
http://www.cartercutlery.com/japane...-grade-wabocho-ebonywater-buffalo-horn-handle


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 27, 2011)

Lefty said:


> Uglyjoe,
> I like Carter's "finished" knives quite a bit and he's a big part of why I only sharpen on two/sometimes three grits. I love that he has let us know that we don't need five stones before stropping, assuming you have a stable edge, to have a wicked sharp knife.
> In my opinion, he should just sell unhandled rat tail blades (for us to put our own handles on), or his fully finished, breath taking pieces he is capable of.
> I would love to own a Carter one day...besides, he's Canadian....


 
The handles on the SFGZ and KU series knives are just burned in and come off easily. So, you're almost buying an unhandled blade. Considering what the plain handles cost, you might save $5.

On the other hand, the handles on the HG knives are glued/epoxied on and are much more difficult to remove. But the handles are of much better quality.


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## Vertigo (Apr 27, 2011)

Masamoto does great things with White #2. I'm not thrilled about having put mine up for sale. They aren't, however, at the lower end of the price spectrum, so maybe not your cup of tea.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 27, 2011)

It has always been my understanding that the Japanese don't consider the handle on their kitchen knives that important. It is just something you hold on to while using what hopefully is a finely crafted blade. I also think if Murray only offered rat tailed blades his sales at knife shows to the general public would go down to about zero. That said, I own maybe a dozen Carters and almost all of them have had the handle come off at one time or another. A little bit of super glue and back they go to the block.


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## Customfan (Apr 27, 2011)

:ninja:Interesting!


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## Flounce (Apr 27, 2011)

Noodle Soup said:


> It has always been my understanding that the Japanese don't consider the handle on their kitchen knives that important. It is just something you hold on to while using what hopefully is a finely crafted blade. I also think if Murray only offered rat tailed blades his sales at knife shows to the general public would go down to about zero. *That said, I own maybe a dozen Carters and almost all of them have had the handle come off at one time or another. A little bit of super glue and back they go to the block*.



I was/am considering breaking the bank and getting a custom Carter but that last part about all of your Carters' knives having the handle come off at one time or another really bothers me.


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## SpikeC (Apr 27, 2011)

A custom will have epoxy.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm talking about the lower end "working" grade Carters. The higher end ones have the blade glued/epoxied into the handles. I have both and the higher grade knives have never been a problem. Not sure that is really traditional Japanese though.


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## Lefty (Apr 27, 2011)

Delete


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## Lefty (Apr 27, 2011)

The tang normally burns its way into the handle, in old school j-knives.
Once again, let's not doubt Carter or his high end blades. The guy makes a mean knife and I would love to own one. However, the "low-end" $200+ knives still bug me.
I would put money on being more than pleased with a custom or pro series, though.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 27, 2011)

Lefty,
You probably need to understand I haven't bought very many Carters in the last decade or so. Not since he emigrated to the U.S. at least. Looking at my block, I see one. The prices weren't that high way back when for the working grade knives. But then, anyone on this forum has a different definition of "high" than the avenge kitchen knife user.


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## Lefty (Apr 28, 2011)

I bet the old Carters are pretty cool! You should post some pics of them!


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## sudsy9977 (Apr 28, 2011)

i have had MANY MANY carters.....from almost all of his lines.....i would never get a high end blade formmurray today witha handle....i would have someone else make it for me.....i have had too many problems with them......ryan


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## mainaman (Apr 29, 2011)

Flounce said:


> I was/am considering breaking the bank and getting a custom Carter but that last part about all of your Carters' knives having the handle come off at one time or another really bothers me.


 You can get a custom Shigefusa instead, the steel is superb, the geometry is superb, the knives are really top notch.


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## Lefty (Apr 29, 2011)

They are beautiful knives, as well, but if you want a Carter, there's a good chance you'll always want THAT knife.
It's one of those tough decisions...do you go with the knife you've been lusting after, or do you go a different direction to what is perhaps an even nicer knife, but something quite different?


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## SpikeC (Apr 29, 2011)

Buy American!


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## Lefty (Apr 29, 2011)

...or Canadian


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## SpikeC (Apr 29, 2011)

Carter may have been born in Canada, butt he is an Oregonian now!


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 29, 2011)

About those traditional rat tail tang knife handles. I've had Watanabe, Shigefusa and a number of lesser name knives' handles come off too. On one of the other forums, I was told it was my own fault for "dropping" my knives back into the block. I can see where a handle that isn't secured by anything but friction would eventually be driven backwards to the point it came lose. The question is why don't they add a drop or two of epoxy to all of them? On the up side, I discovered I could reverse one of those stupid right hand D handles on my Shigefusa and thus make a left-handed knife out of it!


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## Lefty (Apr 29, 2011)

I'll give you and ONLY you that, Spike!


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## UglyJoe (Apr 29, 2011)

I like knives with easy to remove Wa handles. Makes it easier to polish them back to a high finish if you are into that.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 29, 2011)

I've read that the Japanese don't expect the handle to last the entire life of the knife, thus they would like them to be easily replaceable. That might be true in the wet environment of the Tsukiji fish market but I don't really see my handles wearing out before the blade.


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