# Honyaki advice



## Sparklepony (Mar 22, 2015)

Hello again gents,

Need some advice on a Honyaki knife. I would want a Gyoto 240mm or so. New to Honyaki so I don't know much about the people making them. What are some of the best bets. For fun, let's assume that money isn't an option. What's your favorite/dream Honyaki knife?

Cheers!

Jon


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## chinacats (Mar 22, 2015)

I'd choose a Mizuno or Watanabe...why do you think you'd like a honyaki? Do you currently sharpen your own knives; with what gear?

Cheers


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## Von blewitt (Mar 22, 2015)

I have owned Honyaki gyutos from Mizuno, Watanabe, Konosuke & Sakai Ichimonji, I also used the Sakai Takayuki that James from Knives and Stones passed around.

Of those the Mizuno was my personal favourite, but all were quite different. What other Gyutos have you tried/ do you prefer.


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## Sparklepony (Mar 22, 2015)

I have a few shuns (boring I know, the elite is best). Have a Takeda 270 which is awesome and a masakage. I think I may like the Takeda best. Is Honyaki worth the extra cash?


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## Von blewitt (Mar 22, 2015)

They don't cut any better necessarily, I sold mine because I prefer the easier maintenance of san mai knives.


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## KCMande (Mar 22, 2015)

I am generally not one to recommend knives here, the knowledge available far surpasses my own. However I recently bought a Hiromoto Honyaki off a member through the B/S/T sub forum. My first and only honyaki. I haven't used it much (a few times at home dicing potatoes, slicing roasted meats, chopping garlic) but i do enjoy it. I have not sharpened it yet so I can not speak for its feel on stones or edge retention (pretty sure the edge on the knife when i received it was not sharpened by the previous owner either). I also consider it fairly inexpensive for a honyaki. I basically bought it out of curiosity and to use for a refurb project, I am not sure of your reason for wanting a honyaki but it may be worth a look

link to knife on JCK http://japanesechefsknife.com/SPECIALS.html#NagaoHonyaki
link in B/S/T http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...-honyaki-w-2-gyuto?highlight=hiromoto+honyaki


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 4, 2015)

Nice score on that Hiromoto that is a good price. I have had a couple Honyaki knives. To me they are not hard to sharpen at all & have good edge retention. These less expensive Honyaki's work well in production kitchens.


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## supersayan3 (Apr 4, 2015)

Once a Japanese knife, always a Japanese knife
Once a Carbon, Always a Carbon
Once a Honyaki, always a Honyaki

I got the Hiromoto Honyakis, with metal bolster, and the santoku, they are so fine, I got two sets, since I live between two countries, to have a set in each contry(the sukihiki just one time. Gyuto and santoku twice)
The knives seem like a clone, Honyakis seem like original existence, like intellectual models!
Hiromoto is at very good price, kikuichimonji as well.
Have no doubts, just buy one


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Apr 4, 2015)

Well, if money doesn't matter, then take a look a what Cris Anderson is doing. His mizu-honyaki gyutos are pretty cool and very different from any Japanese knives that I've seen. But if you can live with a modern reimagined honyaki idea, then his knives definitely worths a look.


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## supersayan3 (Apr 4, 2015)

And what is the most interesting about the Hiromoto Honyaki, is the Hamon: it is so sort, only close to the handle to absorb the vibrations. So that means that Master Nagao, did the more difficult task, to flatten a harder knife throughout all its surface , compared to the other Honyakis, with the beautiful, but much wider hamon.


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## supersayan3 (Apr 4, 2015)

supersayan3 said:


> There I meant, that non-honyaki knives seem like knive clones, of the original knife, which is the Honyaki (the Gods of knives  ) .
> My Hiromoto Honyaki (s) are so beautiful (even without mirror polish), that if they were a woman, they would have been top models, and educated, intellectual as well, appart from their beauty and style. They radiate power and grace. Their 3D blueprint is perfect!
> Spinal tampering, width, thiness of spine, extremely thin 1cm before tip and over the edge, thiness over the edge, flat left side... they put many more expensive ones to shame (if such a thing can be said, with all respect  I am sure that all honyakis have soul  ).
> Anyway Master Nagao's philosophy, is to be functional and the blade. But, they have the looks anyway.
> ...


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## tcmx3 (Apr 4, 2015)




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## supersayan3 (Apr 4, 2015)

Haha, funny picture!

I appreciate the joke, I am serious enough to let me do self sarcasm many times. I consider it a virtue.

But I tell you one thing: Buy this knife, and upon holding it in your hands, you will feel drunk with joy


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## chinacats (Apr 4, 2015)

supersayan3 said:


> Haha, funny picture!
> 
> I appreciate the joke, I am serious enough to let me do self sarcasm many times. I consider it a virtue.
> 
> But I tell you one thing: Buy this knife, and upon holding it in your hands, you will feel drunk with joy



I bought one and returned it...


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## supersayan3 (Apr 4, 2015)

That's what the forum is all about, exchange of opinions.

I bought one, then two more, then two more.

I feel so enthusiastic about them, since this spring I fell in love with them and my girlfriend ;-)


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## aboynamedsuita (Apr 4, 2015)

When I bought my first Honyaki, I thought it would be the biggest game changer ever. I won't go so far to say that I was underwhelmed, but after hearing so much about "Honyaki" I guess I had put it up on a pedestal. I will still get more I'm sure. 

Salty did a video of a Masamoto KS vs HS gyuto which would probably be one of the best side-by-side comparisons. In summary, I recall that yes you do get some more bang but for a lot more buck.

Honyaki may not be the best option for a person depending on their situation. They can (apparently) be more fragile than clad or monosteel, it's also stiffer which is better for thinner knives. I had an email from Shinichi about this awhile ago; I'll try and dig it up at some point.


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## Salty dog (Apr 4, 2015)

I've always said the virtue of a honyaki knife is that it should be the best example of the knife makers work. 
Few questions:
Who is the actual knife maker?
Is he capable?
Does the style of the maker fit with what you re looking for?
Communication. Best to have one made to order. (Not mandatory)
Status
Reputation
etc.


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## supersayan3 (Apr 5, 2015)

I thank all the members of the forum for their fragments of wisdom, gained by experience, or for their questions , that activate my thought.

I like the exchange and flow of ideas.

I think all good knives can cut well and deliver, if sharpened well and if your hand knows where to guide them.

Yet what really impressed me about honyakis, is their substance.


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## riba (Apr 7, 2015)

chinacats said:


> I bought one and returned it...



I'd be interested to learn the reason why you returned the knife (as you initially thought it as a steal).

(Just curious  )


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## chinacats (Apr 7, 2015)

riba said:


> I'd be interested to learn the reason why you returned the knife (as you initially thought it as a steal).
> 
> (Just curious  )



I thought it a steal until I received it. I felt it was very poorly finished and much more fragile than other honyaki knives I've used/owned. It was just what I paid for--a cheap knife The grind didn't look very well done either (inconsistent)...perhaps I just received a dud, but I wasn't willing to exchange it for another because I wasn't convinced it would be any better.

This was my first Hiromoto and my expectations (from reading about his other knives) were simply not met. It needed a spa treatment oob.


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## wind88 (Apr 7, 2015)

chinacats said:


> I thought it a steal until I received it. I felt it was very poorly finished and much more fragile than other honyaki knives I've used/owned. It was just what I paid for--a cheap knife The grind didn't look very well done either (inconsistent)...perhaps I just received a dud, but I wasn't willing to exchange it for another because I wasn't convinced it would be any better.
> 
> This was my first Hiromoto and my expectations (from reading about his other knives) were simply not met. It needed a spa treatment oob.



I was tempted to pull the trigger on it but the yo handle and F&F issues reported were holding me back.


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## supersayan3 (Apr 7, 2015)

I have already written too much, but my metal bolster version, is nothing close to a cheap knife. You see it side by side with Hiromoto AS, and Ryusen Blazen ( the exact same knife with Takura PRO, but Blazen has magnetic says, Takamura doesn't) and you understand which are the cheap and which one is the expensive. I repeat as well that is the only honyaki with so small Hamon, and whatever that means....Same thing about the sukihiki. As for the santoku is a mind blowing hybrid. The geometry of my gyutos, unique


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 7, 2015)

Bought a Singatirin 270mm Wa handle gyuto off BST quite a while back. It was like new, never been sharpened or used. Got it at a good price. Marko was selling these blades, don't see them on his site anymore.

Really like the Chestnut handle on this large blade, the black horn was polished edges softened. I used it a while after putting a sharp edge on it. Ended up selling it to a banquet cook that I had taught freehand.

As suspected turned out to be a great production blade. He uses it more than any other knife in his kit. The handle not only looks good it is functional too. Felt good to pass that blade on to someone who is using hours a day.


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## schanop (Apr 7, 2015)

keithsaltydog said:


> Bought a Singatirin 270mm Wa handle gyuto off BST quite a while back. It was like new, never been sharpened or used. Got it at a good price. Marko was selling these blades, don't see them on his site anymore.



LOL, give Maximo some credit for selling some quality blades.


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## chinacats (Apr 7, 2015)

keithsaltydog said:


> As suspected turned out to be a great production blade. He uses it more than any other knife in his kit. The handle not only looks good it is functional too. Felt good to pass that blade on to someone who is using hours a day.



I miss my Singatirin...honyaki is meant for someone who as Keith says, uses it hours a day. Unfortunately/fortunately this is not me. 

Cheers


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## Bonertyme (Apr 8, 2015)

suisin and takayuki are my favorites. balance well in my hand.


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## chinacats (Apr 8, 2015)

Bonertyme said:


> suisin and takayuki are my favorites. balance well in my hand.



Don't know about takayuki, but the Suisin is honyaki only in name (not mizu-honyaki)...


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## Salty dog (Apr 8, 2015)

Not sure who I sold the Masamoto suji to but that may have been the baddest knife I've ever owned.


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## riba (Apr 9, 2015)

chinacats said:


> I thought it a steal until I received it. I felt it was very poorly finished and much more fragile than other honyaki knives I've used/owned. It was just what I paid for--a cheap knife The grind didn't look very well done either (inconsistent)...perhaps I just received a dud, but I wasn't willing to exchange it for another because I wasn't convinced it would be any better.
> 
> This was my first Hiromoto and my expectations (from reading about his other knives) were simply not met. It needed a spa treatment oob.



Yeah, I have one too (the "cheap" special edition). But as it is only my 3d gyuto (yusuke SS, heiji SemiS), I don't really have sufficient basis to compare (that's why I was curious about your experience & expectations). 
The grind on mine is indeed inconsistent (either that or my sharpening sucked more than usual - the width of the resulting bevel varried quite a bit). I didn't perceive the knife as fragile though. Fit of the handle isn't perfect either but it feels good and I like the looks. Ofc, the blade itself wasn't polished (but that was not to be expected given the price), I am considering polishing and perhaps etching it once myself. But all things aside, I rather enjoy using it. Guess that's what matters after all. (I definately don't "need" a honyaki gyuto, rather overkill for a home-cook-in-training)


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## Illonax (Apr 18, 2015)

chinacats said:


> I thought it a steal until I received it. I felt it was very poorly finished and much more fragile than other honyaki knives I've used/owned. It was just what I paid for--a cheap knife The grind didn't look very well done either (inconsistent)...perhaps I just received a dud, but I wasn't willing to exchange it for another because I wasn't convinced it would be any better.
> 
> This was my first Hiromoto and my expectations (from reading about his other knives) were simply not met. It needed a spa treatment oob.



HOWEVER.
I see the one you bought, and it was the one that is $310 retail on JCK.
Right above that one is something described almost the same: Nagao White Steel #2 Honyaki 240 Gyuto. It came out 4 months after the original "honyaki" set. Except this one has a black handle and costs $500. Also there is no Santoku in this set, but there is still a Sujihiki.

They don't seem to have separate series names. They use the same steel. So this seems like it would make it very hard to do research on them.
Does anyone know anything about this second Hiromoto honyaki set?


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## pkjames (Apr 18, 2015)

IMO buying a true honyaki (aruba or mizu doesn't matter but NOT a mono), you really only need to know two things aside from the steel: who forged it, and who sharpened it.


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## riba (Apr 19, 2015)

Illonax said:


> HOWEVER.
> I see the one you bought, and it was the one that is $310 retail on JCK.
> Right above that one is something described almost the same: Nagao White Steel #2 Honyaki 240 Gyuto. It came out 4 months after the original "honyaki" set. Except this one has a black handle and costs $500. Also there is no Santoku in this set, but there is still a Sujihiki.
> 
> ...



That's the one supersayan3 has. 
I asked koki about the difference of the special edition versus the normal: 'These are the special models from Master Nagao and the blade is through same making process as his normal Honyaki knives (the Black Pakka Wood handle with Stainless steel bolster) '


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## Illonax (Apr 19, 2015)

riba said:


> That's the one supersayan3 has.
> I asked koki about the difference of the special edition versus the normal: 'These are the special models from Master Nagao and the blade is through same making process as his normal Honyaki knives (the Black Pakka Wood handle with Stainless steel bolster) '



Ok, then I don't really understand how the price increase gets justified :dontknow: But I guess we have an answer. Thanks!


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## supersayan3 (Apr 20, 2015)

Koki told me the same, that they are the same knife. Yet the ones that I got, I got 5, 2gyutos, 2 santokus , 1 suji, (for the kitchens I cook I dont need sujis that much), all have very nice even grind, are quality knives with very nice finish. Not mirror polished, not rounded spine, but then again not sharp spine as well.
I have to explain this thing about the spine. I am a pro cook, and if I happen to do preparations, I use knife for hours, and cut in a shift more than what a home cook cuts in three months. Some square spines are not bothersome, and you don't feel like smoothing them(like Masahiro Virgin Carbon 21cm), while others are very sharp and you have to ease them(like Masahiro Virgin Carbon[beastly knife, for werewolves] 24cm gyuto, Gekko[most square spine ever, yet amazing knife] 24cm). Some are rounded and wide, which is blessing(like Ryusen Tsuchime 24cm gyuto), and sone are rounded and thin-feel comfortable-like Ryusen Blazen 24cm gyuto.

The Hiromotos 24cm Gyutos with metal bolster I have, spine is square, but not the most square you can find. Some at pinch grip might find it bothersome, I find it tolerable. If you hold the knife from the handle, with pointing finger over the spine, it is more comfortable than rounded spine.

It is not a luxurious knife, but this isnt the philosophy of Hiromoto knives. The gravity is in the blade and to be functional.
You see it live next to Blazen and Hiromoto AS(outstanding knives both-great cutters), you understand who is the boss.

Very intersting is the small Hamon. I have analysed it at a previous post. They are made by Master Nagao himself.

The santoku is not in metal bolster version.

There are two santokus. The rosewood handle- santoku profile, wide blade, and hand sharpened in the stones by Master Nagao himself.

The other(from which I have two), has a light brown wood handle(lighter colour and more beautiful than the beautiful honesuki handle), has a hybrid santoku-gyto profile, which you can use both as a santoku and as a gyuto. It does not come with a hand sharpening in the stones.

All knives that I have, have even grind.

One Hiromoto AS, the 20cm gyuto, had uneven grind out of the box, yet was amazing cutter as it was


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## Illonax (Apr 21, 2015)

I wanted a hiromoto AS...but they only had the 300mm gyutos left and that seemed like super overkill... I was really looking at the honyaki but I was disappointed by the reviews, which I notice there are not very many of relative to reviews on other knives.  I hesitate to spend 500 on a knife when I don't have enough information on the differences. Grrr!
I got a Mizuno Gyuoto (which I am excited for) plus some masamoto knives, but I got the Masamotos pretty much because I couldn't find something else that really excited me in terms of a sujihiki and petty. I figured Masamoto would be a good basic utilitarian choice, even if a little lacking in personality.


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