# Can't keep my Wusthoff Knives Sharp



## alfreedo (Jan 8, 2015)

I have a set of 30+ year old Wushoff kitchen knives. I get them good and sharp with my Edge Pro sharpener and after each use make a couple of passes with the ceramic rod provided with the Edge Pro. I don't use them that much, but after about 3 weeks they get "dull". I've seen other folks Wusthoff knives and they seem to stay sharper even though they don't seem to get the care mine do. Was there an issue with the steel in older Wusthoff knives? 

I'm thinking about replacing them. Do you have suggestions for a Chef Knife and Slicer?

Thanks

Alfreedo


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## chinacats (Jan 8, 2015)

Welcome Alfreedo!

May want to post this in the sharpening subforum where it will get more views.

I personally don't know anything about an edge pro but your knives are being over sharpened. As a home user you should easily get a few months between sharpenings using a steel to realign the edge. If you are using low angles the edge will not last long.

You should get the current knives sorted out first and then we'll be glad to help you spend your money.

Cheers


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## alfreedo (Jan 8, 2015)

I'm sharpening to about 20-22 degrees, which I don't think is too much for the knives or how I use them. I like your suggestion of posting to the sharpening forum.

Thanks

Alfreedo


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jan 8, 2015)

Welcome to KKF, Alfreedo.

What angle are you setting on the Edge Pro? For optimal edge retention, your Wusthof knives should not be sharpened at less than 20 degrees, and a 25 degree micro bevel should be applied as well. 

I would also suggest that you stop using the ceramic rod. A smooth steel is best for truing up a rolled edge without removing any metal. 

Rick


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## ThEoRy (Jan 8, 2015)

How high a grit are you polishing? Over polishing can lead to quick edge failure on softer steel.


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## alfreedo (Jan 8, 2015)

ThEoRy said:


> How high a grit are you polishing? Over polishing can lead to quick edge failure on softer steel.



Last Grit was 800 or 1000.


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## alfreedo (Jan 8, 2015)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Welcome to KKF, Alfreedo.
> 
> What angle are you setting on the Edge Pro? For optimal edge retention, your Wusthof knives should not be sharpened at less than 20 degrees, and a 25 degree micro bevel should be applied as well.
> 
> ...



Before I got the ceramic rod, I used a Fischer diamond hone and before that the steel supplied by Wusthoff which is kind of serrated.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jan 8, 2015)

alfreedo said:


> Before I got the ceramic rod, I used a Fischer diamond hone and before that the steel supplied by Wusthoff which is kind of serrated.



All three of those rods are abrasive, and will remove the rolled edge instead of straightening it. For softer knives, like the Wüsthof, the Henkel and the Sabatier, a smooth, polished steel should be used to realign the edge without removing any material. Something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00063QBI6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Rick


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## gic (Jan 8, 2015)

I sharpen mine (I use them as beaters) at a 15 back bevel and a 20 degree edge bevel, works pretty well. To keep them sharp I use a few passes with "fine grit" diafold


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## Mrmnms (Jan 8, 2015)

30 year old knives with lots of sharpening. Maybe thick behind the edge. How much pressure are you using with the ceramic rod?


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## chinacats (Jan 9, 2015)

Mrmnms said:


> 30 year old knives with lots of sharpening. Maybe thick behind the edge. How much pressure are you using with the ceramic rod?



Doh! this is likely the problem, have they ever been thinned?


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## Benuser (Jan 9, 2015)

With thick blades a lot of pressure will be needed no edge will hold.


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## psfred (Jan 9, 2015)

If you want to revive those knives, they will have to be thinned quite a bit, and then properly sharpened. The Edge Pro will do that, but ditch the honing rods and find either an oldfashioned bluntly serrated steel or a smooth one. Anything that removes metal will remove a rolled edge on those knives, and the edge you pull up with a honing rod isn't all that great.

As for replacements, take a look at Tojiro DP or Fujiwara FKH (or is it FKM, I can never remember, I bought a Tojiro). Either will be close in profile -- a bit flatter with less belly, but similar, much harder, much sharper, and much thinner. You will likely need a finer stone (3000 or 6000 grit) which can be used both to polish when sharpening and to strop to restore the edge. You won't want to use ANY rod device with these knives. An 8" Tojiro DP usually runs $65 or so on Amazon and maybe a bit more from most of the knife vendors, it's hard to turn one down in comparison to another Wustoff. 

No matter what you do with those Wusties, though, they will NEVER hold a decent edge more than a month or so in daily use. The steel was designed to be readily "sharpened" with a serrated steel and the result is that the edge is never going to be either really sharp nor sturdy, even with a 25 degree microbevel. Just the nature of the beast, which is why I don't use that type of knives any more. The Tojiro was a revelation.

To thin your knives, you want to lay them nearly flat on the side on the stones and grind off material from the lower quarter or so of the blade. The objective is to reduce the thickness of the blade just above the edge so that food, particularly things like carrots, won't get wedged apart so much they break instead of being cut by the edge. This makes the knife feel quite dull even though the edge might be screaming sharp (although you will never get an edge like that on CroMoVa steel anyway). Expect to be at it for a while if those knives have been sharpened for 30 years without thinning -- you should be able to feel how fat the blade is above the edge with your fingers (carefully!).

Me, I'd ditch them, or use them for display and get better knives.

Peter


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## chinacats (Jan 9, 2015)

^^ Peter, those are called guest knives


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## daveb (Jan 9, 2015)

I think the Wusties are being thoughtlessly disparaged. No finer knife if you need to chop a few pounds of walnuts. 
They're good for pecans as well...:whistling:


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## psfred (Jan 9, 2015)

Might be a good use for my Chicago Cutlery knives!

Nothing wrong with Wusties so long as you understand their design and use. Very well made as a rule, and should last nearly forever. I just prefer harder (and hence sharper) knives and am willing to put up with the restrictions on their use.

If you open cans and rock chop with abandon, Wustoff's will make you very happy. They will never be truly sharp, but you won't chip them. 

Peter


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## alfreedo (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks All. I just ordered a Tojiro DP Gyutou 24 cm. my first go with a Japanese knife. As someone said, I'll reserve my Wusthof for chopping nuts...no rocks though.

Alfreedo


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## alfreedo (Jan 10, 2015)

Before I f#*k up the edge on my new Tojiro, what should I use to straighten the edge after use?

Alfreedo


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## daveb (Jan 10, 2015)

The European knives are softer steel, by design the edges will roll and a sharpening steel can help bring the back into alignment. Japanese knives are harder and are not designed to roll - they will chip if you do something stupid. (And we've all been stupid at times...) You can strop (on a stone or stropping material) them after use if you just have to, but you will probably not be improving the edge. A home user will do well to use them, clean them, dry them and put them away. Repeat.


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## psfred (Jan 10, 2015)

I've had my Tojiro for about six months and have done nothing to it beyond a minor touch-up of the edge when I first got it as it appears a bit rough to my eyes. Probably not necessary, but I like sharp knives.

Just in the last couple uses it's starting to feel dull slicing onions, so I'll probably strop it this weekend, and if that doesn't restore the edge, will do a complete sharpening.

Edges don't go out of alignment on Japanese knives, they wear or break off. The edge will not roll or go "out of alignment", and even if it did, likely your steel is softer than the edge of the knife!. 

I think you will be highly pleased at the sharpness of your new knife.

Oh, and when you do sharpen it, use 12 degrees per side, not 20. 

Peter


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## Kentucky (Jan 11, 2015)

They use X50CrMo14 I their knives or did use a lot of it. 56rc maybe 57 is about the best you will get with a X50CrMo14 Wusthoff. Its the way they design them to be..Softer, easier to sharpen and roll instead of chipping. I have one myself that was given as a gift. We use it all the time and strop it all the time..
heres the comp of your wusthoff..
C:.50%
CR:14.50%
Mo:0.65%
V:0.15
Mn:1.00%
Si:1.00%
...............................
In comparison here is Vg10..
Carbon: 1.0% 
Chromium: 15.0% 
Molybdenum: 1.0% 
Vanadium: 0.2% 
Cobalt: 1.5% 
Manganese: 0.5%


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## salmonkiller (Jan 19, 2015)

Are you sure you don't have a pesky wire edge?


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## alfreedo (Jan 20, 2015)

Right out of the box, this knife is so sharp.... I never knew what sharp was. Right after use, i wipe it off and put it away. 

Hopefully by the time it needs sharpening, I'll know how to do it right.

Thanks all.

Alfreedo


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## psfred (Jan 20, 2015)

Lol, that is a very common response to using a Japanese knife the first time. And probably why most of us on this forum no longer own German stainless....

Peter


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 21, 2015)

alfreedo, a good portion of what you feel is probably not merely sharpness in an absolute sense but rather good geometry, primarily a thin and more acute edge. Remember that as it is important to keep the knife thin over time. Also unless you got quite lucky the knife can likely be even sharper than what you received. Welcome to the world of performance cutlery.


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