# What mid ranged cookware do you use/recommend



## buffhr

Having grown up in NA, I know many brands of pots and pans originating from there but here in Europe most of those are not available, or i don't know where to find em So what do European home cooks use as home cookware ?



However what im looking at is mostly the low/mid-class decent items, not looking into All clad, demeyere atlantis, Mauviel and the sorts 200 or more per pot/pan is just too much for me at the moment. But what I am looking for is the likes of the Cuisinart Multiclad pro SS , the Tramontia tri ply.



Rösle multiply seems to be decent, however not a big fan of their handles on sauciers, just felt uncomfortable.



Not really looking for a set or pots and pans but more for a few peices namely a saucier (2-3 Qt, would prefer arrouns 2.4l) a sauté pan (28-32) and perhaps an all arround 4-5Qt/L saucepan. I would really like to get some multy pli for the saucier and all pans must support induction, otherwise as I would stretch it and go for the Falk Saucier currenlty half price, but needing an extra plate to make it induction compatible is a deal break and just breaks the effectiveness/response of copper.



After some searching I found a few brands but reviews were not stellar (Beka Tri-lux) or availability to Finland isn't very feasible (Vogue tri Wall, requires a 500£/ order to ship to anywhere outside UK/DE/NL/BE).



The zwilling sigma seemed promising, even tho some parts are pricier then id want, however cant seem to find a saucier for that line The IKEA Sensuell seems like a mixed bags from the reviews and seems a lil thin From the web i found it has a 1mm Aluminum center and total thickness of 2 or 2.2mm it is the thinnest multi ply I have seen, most recommended ones are in the 2.5+ range. Debuyer ranges at roughly 100+ is still pricier then id want..



So yeah TLDR : What mid range Saucier and sauté pan do you guys use/recommend that is available with Europe wide shipping and induction compatible.


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## bkultra

Look into Fissler and paderno grand gourmet


Edit: also make sure to check prices on different countries Amazon sites (Spain,France,Germany,Italy,etc)


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## buffhr

Thank you bkultra!

The paderno saucier multiply looks pretty nice and very well priced(below 60), Fissler seems to only offer 1 in their pro range and well that's priced in the 110+, however they offer some very nice lines and interesting choices, thank you for bringing this to my attention!


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## bkultra

No problem but remember to check all the different amazon sites... prices vary greatly from one to the next.

Also consider a rondeau in the 28-32 size, instead of a saute pan. paderno makes an excellent one in this size.


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## buffhr

Very nice suggestion on the rondeau, really love that style! Would have 1 question regarding 2 of the paderno lines...

If you were to choose these would you go for the 2500 3 ply line or the 1100 Grand gourmet series.

Pretty sure im set on either of these as the fissler seems to be priced much higher (perhaps much better quality...), or havent found the right place...

Thanks once again!


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## bkultra

Disc bottom on saute/rondeau and saucepot, edge to edge clad on saucier.

Padreno is better priced because it's used more in pro environments, much like vollrath in the U.S.


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## DamageInc

I like my WMF pressure cooker, I'm sure their normal pots and pans are nice as well. Their prices seem to be pretty decent too.

Check out Scanpan as well.


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## McMan

bkultra said:


> Look into Fissler and paderno grand gourmet
> 
> 
> Edit: also make sure to check prices on different countries Amazon sites (Spain,France,Germany,Italy,etc)



+1 for Paderno. Sitram (made in France) is very similar to Paderno too and might be worth a look.


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## krx927

DamageInc said:


> I like my WMF pressure cooker, I'm sure their normal pots and pans are nice as well. Their prices seem to be pretty decent too.
> 
> Check out Scanpan as well.



I was also about to recommend WMF. I use their SS set Gourmet Plus and I am pretty happy. I also own their cheaper set Provence Plus which is also OK to cook in it just has glass lids.
I also had their frying pan with permadure protection. This pan lasted for 15 years which is pretty amazing. I just replaced it with Scanpan 2 months ago (this is significatly more expensive). You can get good WMD frying pans from 60eur on wards on Amazon.de

I was also cooking in other German SS pots like Fissler and Silit (also produced by WMF) and they are all good. I think you need to check which shape/handle suits you.


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## HRC_64

you're gonna get recommendations here that still won't be cheap!

But for beater cookware, tramotina tri-ply is very usable,
the only issue is I'm not sure they make a 28cm rondo or and the 2L sauce
is very tall and you want splayed sides.

for those pro-quality touches, I would just go with a pro-quality brand
as noted above the types like sitram, paderno, etc. 

keep in mind you still want thick walls for the sauce pan,
and this means a ply or heavy walled copper etc
none of which are likely dirt cheap


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## bkultra

HRC_64 said:


> keep in mind you still want thick walls for the sauce pan,
> and this means a ply or heavy walled copper etc
> none of which are likely dirt cheap



Assuming you're talking about a straight sided traditional saucepan and not a Saucier or Windsor, I disagree. Convection currents in the liquids used in a saucepan will move the heat far more efficiently than side wall cladding. The OP is an induction user so there is no downside to disc construction, like "ring of fire". In fact being an induction user and on a budget they're far better off putting their money where it counts... at the bottom where heat is applied (directly to the pan)


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## HRC_64

no worries, am talking about the 'saucier' concept pan here. 
however, along the discussion lines (function + budget)
splayed is not always needed, but heavy walls is.


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## buffhr

Wow thanks for all the feedback!

I actually have both gas and induction:biggrin: , however the SO only uses the induction and I would like to minimize the "constructive criticism" that would come from her blindly grabbing a pot that doesn't work...

I had given WMF a good look but most english/french reviews were either puff pieces or not very informative, tons of them in German seemed mostly positive, so will give them a look as well!

Havent really been able to find tramontia cookware for "normal" pricing... if imma drop 200ishh on a pot its definitely not from them!

Scanpan definetly makes nice pans, but wasnt able to locate a "proper" saucier from them.

Soo many choices and research to do now! Really appreciate all the help!


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## HRC_64

Just wanted to point out that some tricks can help less than perfect pans, eg these blunt edge spoons from the supply house are cheap but quite useful







http://www.previninc.com/shop/Blunt-Edge-Spoons.html


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## Jovidah

I have a few (European) cents to add that might be of help. I'll cut it up in a few posts so it doesn't become a huge booklet.

First on the IKEA Sensuell series:
Not all the pans in the series are of the same thickness. I bought mine a few years ago - so there is the minor caveat that I do not know if they changed anything about them in the meantime. Important to know is that not all pans in the line have the same thickness. I own the big 24 cm / 3L saucier and the 28cm frying pan, and they are of a much thicker gauge than the big stockpot. From what I recall they are also significantly thicker than the smaller saucepan and pot that came later.

Regarding the 2 models I own: they are an exceptional bargain for the price, and awesome performaners. Main characteristics of note:

-Price. You simply won't find tri-ply pans for this price, and if you do they tend to suck and be thinner than these. Frankly, Demeyere is really the European all-clad and to be honest there haven't been a whole lot of other producers making pans with this kind of construction. Most pans you'll find are either disk bottom models, or things like teflon coated cast aluminium.

-In fact if you really want a stainless frying pan or saucier, you'll be hardpressed to find anything even close to this in price - even as a disk bottom model. Anything else in this pricerange will usually be cheap ass teflon coated junk.

-Extremely good conductivity; even on ****** stoves (like crappy electrical stoves). Never did the my pans ever leave anything to desire in this department. It was my main reason for getting one in the first place, and my main reason for getting more. It performs notably better than stuff like the well-known de Buyer carbon steel pans.

-The 3L saucier is extremely versatile, as it can be pressed into the role of sauce-pan, but is also large enough for other 'normal' cooking duties, or even frying if one so desires.

-All that thickness means it has a high mass: the pans really are heavy. That is something to keep in mind. While it may be a mark of good cookware, some will find them too heavy to be comfortable. That's something you'll have to decide for yourself.

-High mass also means high thermal mass. The reactivity of the pans is a tad on the low side.

-Main downside: the handles are heavy. While the upside is that they won't heat up fast, this can make the pans a bit unbalanced while (near)-empty, making them easy to tip over - altho you probably won't have enough of an issue with this on an induction stove. There's also no hole in the handle to hang them.

-Another thing that's somewhat annoying: they have fancy lids with the stock pot that fit on the saucier, but sadly those aren't sold seperately. So if like me, you only want the saucier, you're **** outta luck on getting the fancy lid. The cheapo pan lids they sell work fine tho and are a good functional solution - but a lot less pretty.

-The inside is most likely made of just 18/0 instead of 18/10. I had one pan that got some (albeit very minor) pit corrosion over the years. Altho admittedly I may have occasionally used them as food container, or kept them soaking near the sink a bit too long...
They still gave me back my money under the warranty tho... and without hesitation I bought a new one. So if you buy them, keep your receipts; they're quite lenient with their warranty.


All in all I'd seriously recommend considering at least the 24 cm saucier. There's very little alternative to it anywhere close in price and performance. I have 2 and they are some of my most used pans. 
The frying pan is great, and if you really want a tri-ply stainless model there aren't really any cheap alternatives... but if you're just looking for a frying pan there are plenty of 'good' affordable options: carbon steel frying pans from de Buyer, or even just cheap teflon-plated cast aluminum can often perform


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## Jovidah

Then on to the more general stuff. First of all, keep in mind that you're on the other side of the globe. So a brand like Tramontia from Brazil will be much less affordable here simply due to the shipping costs involved - and that's probably one of the reasons their stuff is rare to come by here. The same applies for most American brands; you won't find them because they're smiply not competitive price-wise.

Now on to specifics: as you already pointed out yourself it's pretty pointless to buy expensive copper pans on an induction stove. Yes they can work if you get the right model (some models have induction compatible disks), or you can use one of those induction plates, but frankly it's a complete waste of money. If you're considering forking out the money kind of money a Falk saucier would cost I'd personally opt for Demeyere instead.
If you really want a conical saucier, there also aren't a whole lot of options. As I said in my previous post, there aren't a whole lot of companies producing full-body multiply pans; even most 'quality' companies tended to stick to disk bottom pans, which don't really work for a saucier. For that reason in most lines you won't really find a true saucier at all. 

Now regarding bigger saucepans / stockpots... frankly... a disk bottom is a disk bottom. All that matters is the thickness. Whether you buy an expensive Demeyere, WMF, Fissler, or cheaper Paderno, Sitram, or just plain Ikea, doesn't make a whole lot of difference... especially when you're just using it to frigging boil water. Consider getting just a cheap Ikea pan (like the 365+ 5 liter models), using the saucier for your smaller needs, and maybe adding a big cast iron pot if you really want some kind of larger vessel. This is arguably the easiest place to save money. 

Now when it comes to frying pans, I'd say thats where you have the most 'choices' to make. Off the bat, I dare say that anything with a non-stick layer is basically a disposable product with a limited lifespan. No matter how expensive the pan is, or how fancy they name it, they simply will deteriorate over time. So if you want a teflon pan I'd always go for 'good but affordable' instead of trying to invest a ton of money trying to get the best stuff, because they'll still just die. Personally I go for thick cast aluminium pans that I buy at a restaurant wholesaler. Those tend to be thick, and therefore good conductivity, while still being extremely affordable (in the order of 1 euro per cm). I prefer them over disk bottoms (like the cheaper Ikea pans) because they also conduct towards the sides, preventing the hot rings (or in case of conduction, cold rings) on the edges of the pans issue. I prefer models that have a handle that's either rivteted, or fully welded (without a screwed connection); the models with a screwed on handle always tend to fail on the handle even before the non stick coating fails.
Regardless of what else you buy I'd say it's always worth having at least one decent non-stick pan.

However there is another very viable and affordable solution: carbon steel pans. Also usually found in restaurant stores... the carbon steel pans from de Buyer are basically the european version of cheap cast iron, and tho somewhat different (thinner, smoother) they are otherwise very comparable. Extremely versatile, very affordable, and the only real downside is that they are a bit more fuss maintenance-wise, like cast iron. They also work on induction. If you can live with the extra maintenance requirements I'd give these very serious consideration. While I have all 3 types of frying pans - stainless, nonstick and carbon steel - I actually use these the most.


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## buffhr

Thanks for the tip on the 3l and 28cm saucier, I guess i shall go to ikea to see them. Also need to go to another shop to check out the paderno 2500 clad saucier, hoping to get that done over the weekend!

Love the detailed description, have a good idea what to check and see if i can live/manage with that. I think 3l is on the bigger side of things but after holding it in my hands will see.


Yea i get the price inflation, but still odd that vs NA not many EU brands make clad or if they do its rare or in the all clad/demeyere price points.

Have plenty of pots and pans of varying quality All clad (tri), debuyer min B, tefal (non stick pan),vintage Swedish cast to some Ikea stuff. Just wanting to fill up some more. 

Have never had a saucier and well always managed without a sauté pan/rondeau,usually would use a Db country frypan however carbon and acid and.. just tired of it. Now I feel its the time to get one.


So currently the pots im considering are:

saucier

Ikea Sensuell 3L
Paderno 2500 2l (12513-20)

sauté/rondeau

Paderno 1210928 (really like the looks and has "double thick bottom")
WMF gourmet plus 24 cm (a lil small but they dont do bigger...)
Also considering a few others from WMF and rössle.


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## buffhr

Just stopped by ikea on my way home and while the sensuell did feel better then say the ikea normal stuff but they didn't feel that great and they all seemed same thickness in base and most of the walls,the upper part of the 5.5l pot seemed thinner. It was also somewhat large as I expected, so leaning more towards the paderno saucier now I guess...


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## Jovidah

Really? Same thickness? Back when I bought them there was a pretty huge differenence in tickness; the saucier and frying pan being about twice as thick as the larger pot. Main reason I never got the pot. Who knows maybe they cheaped out and switched all to thinner? The larger size of the suacier was always a positive thing to me; small enough to still do sauces, but large enough to be far more versatile. But I guess that's just personal preference.


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## buffhr

After checking out the paderno 20cm (2l) clad saucier I just had to get it, well balanced and nice handle. Have only made 2 sauces since but no regrets very happy with the purchase!

Thanks for all the recommendations!


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## bkultra

good to hear and happy to help


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## HRC_64

The paderno is clad?


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## bkultra

HRC_64 said:


> The paderno is clad?



They have multiple lines


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## HRC_64

bkultra said:


> They have multiple lines



ok, here they are... one disk and one tri-ply...I guess not every shop carries everything.

https://www.padernousa.com/splayed-saute-pan-stainless-steel-1-5-8-quart/
https://www.padernousa.com/splayed-saute-pan-stainless-steel-tri-ply-2-1-8-quart/


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## buffhr

HRC_64 said:


> ok, here they are... one disk and one tri-ply...I guess not every shop carries everything.
> 
> https://www.padernousa.com/splayed-saute-pan-stainless-steel-1-5-8-quart/
> https://www.padernousa.com/splayed-saute-pan-stainless-steel-tri-ply-2-1-8-quart/



Yup here locally they mostly have non clad or the 1000 series but the nicest series IMO are the clad (2500 series) or the grabd gourmet (1100) and 2100 SS which is grand gourmet with different handles.


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