# Chef Knife and more, 1st time REAL knife buying, lets going shopping!



## Meals (Feb 17, 2013)

I am a finance guy by day, serious home cook by night . I want to upgrade to a real chef knife and work from there. I am a male with an avg size hand. My current equipment is nothing to even talk about and I want to start from scratch. Looking for advice as far as what knife(s), a sharping set (advice on how to learn) and what other knifes I should get. Also, help with where you would buy them!

Help with buying:
1. Chef Knife budget $300 or under, need help w/ size
2. Paring knife $150 or under
3. Yanagi $350 or under
4. Sharping supplies, knife bag, and how to sharpen
I have a: Bread Knife, Chinese one piece steel handle cleaver, junky chef knife and paring knife going to Goodwill

Enjoying helping me spend money!


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## franzb69 (Feb 17, 2013)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/2058-Which-knife-should-you-buy

answer these questions first please.

=D


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## Igasho (Feb 17, 2013)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/10785-revisiting-the-fire-sale?p=181914#post181914
here is a good couple knives available


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## Meals (Feb 17, 2013)

Sorry I am new

What type of knife(s) do you think you want? First of all I am putting together my first real set of knifes
1. Chef Knife $300 or less, not sure on size, I am thinking 8 inches.
2. Paring knife $150 
3. Yanagi $350 or less
4. Sharping supplies, knife bag, and how to sharpen

Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?
Replacing what I have, which were purchased at Target, nothing great. I am pretty serious and am a want to be chef. I want to have really good knifes.

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
Aesthetics- Junky plastic
Edge Quality/Retention- Not sharp, not a good blade
Ease of Use- It works somewhat
Comfort- would love a comfort knife, but I'm not cutting all day I have a desk job.

What grip do you use? Pintch Grip

What kind of cutting motion do you use? Rock and Walking

Where do you store them? Maganitic Strip

Have you ever oiled a handle? Nope, I never had wood handle before

What kind of cutting board(s) do you use? Bamboo, I have a few

For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing? Never tried I have $40 knives =[

Have they ever been sharpened? nope

What is your budget? See Above

What do you cook and how often? I am a home cook, and cook everything from Breakfast, to Steak and Sea Scalops

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)? I am in Austin Texas, open to anything really


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## ThEoRy (Feb 17, 2013)

Why do you need a yanagiba?


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## chinacats (Feb 18, 2013)

Do you know what profile you would like on a chef's (gyuto)?


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## Meals (Feb 18, 2013)

I make sushi for friends, I guess I don't really need it. Its cool, not not really needed, you think I should get something else? basically starting from scratch, I do have a great bread knife and a $10 steel handle cleaver lol


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## Meals (Feb 18, 2013)

My current knife is a German Profile, however I am not married to that profile.


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## chinacats (Feb 18, 2013)

Meals said:


> My current knife is a German Profile, however I am not married to that profile.



Do you like German heft, in other words would you be interested in something on the lighter side or would you like something more substantial? In J-knives, both will cut like nobody's business but figuring out the weight you like will help to narrow the choices a bit. Also, do you like the traditional style handle (western/yo) or be willing to try a wa handle (usually octagonal, round or d-shaped)?


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## Meals (Feb 18, 2013)

chinacats said:


> Do you like German heft, in other words would you be interested in something on the lighter side or would you like something more substantial? In J-knives, both will cut like nobody's business but figuring out the weight you like will help to narrow the choices a bit. Also, do you like the traditional style handle (western/yo) or be willing to try a wa handle (usually octagonal, round or d-shaped)?



I have had a heft of a knife, but would like something that is comfortable, med to light weight. Handle I am not sure, I most like will have to try them. I am willing to try a wa.


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## chinacats (Feb 18, 2013)

See what you think of something like this It is available in stainless or carbon (can rust) steel, and the owner of the shop is a vendor here--and most knowledgeable too so you could call and get better advice than I can give. He also has a wide variety of knives that may be better suited and will spend time on the phone to help guide you.
Cheers


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## brainsausage (Feb 18, 2013)

chinacats said:


> See what you think of something like this It is available in stainless or carbon (can rust) steel, and the owner of the shop is a vendor here--and most knowledgeable too so you could call and get better advice than I can give. He also has a wide variety of knives that may be better suited and will spend time on the phone to help guide you.
> Cheers


 
Ditto.


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## ThEoRy (Feb 18, 2013)

Meals said:


> I make sushi for friends, I guess I don't really need it. Its cool, not not really needed, you think I should get something else? basically starting from scratch, I do have a great bread knife and a $10 steel handle cleaver lol



Reason I ask is if you are just cutting Maki you don't want a yanagiba. A sujihiki may be more versatile for you. For a beginner sharpening a yanagiba may prove a challenge as well. 

You've got about $800 there, I would say to use up to $250 on a gyuto like this:

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-by-type/gyuto/gesshin-kagero-240mm-powdered-steel-gyuto.html 
or :
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-by-type/gyuto/gesshin-ginga-240mm-stainless-wa-gyuto.html

You can go under $200 on a suji like this:
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-by-type/sujihiki/suisin-inox-western-270mm-sujihiki.html 

or perhaps something a little nicer for a bit more like:
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-by-type/sujihiki/gesshin-ginga-270mm-stainless-wa-sujihiki.html

about $110-150 on a petty like this one:
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-by-type/petty-knife/gesshin-uraku-150mm-stainless-wa-petty.html
or:
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-by-type/petty-knife/gesshin-ginga-150mm-stainless-wa-petty.html

and maybe like $80 on a pairing knife like this:
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives-by-type/petty-knife/suisin-inox-western-80mm-paring-knife.html

That leaves a good bit left over for a few stones too.

Alsol how great is that bread knife? Is it, this great?
[video=youtube_share;dvNs4zB6zXg]http://youtu.be/dvNs4zB6zXg[/video]
I love that knife!!


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## franzb69 (Feb 18, 2013)

lots of love for JKI on there =D


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## chinacats (Feb 18, 2013)

Oh, and here is a link to that bread knife of Theory's


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## Meals (Feb 18, 2013)

Thanks for the info, before this I was looking at the Wusthof Ikon Cook's Knife with Blackwood Handle, w/ matching paring knife. Below is the cleaver I have 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UBE7JY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

My current bread knife and Santoku are Farberware. The bread, chef and paring are a cheap J A Henckels.

After seeing this bread knife video, I think the will donate everything I have and start from scratch.

Would you have any recommendations if I wanted a German profiles ? Just want to get an idea of what the other side of the coin would look like with a german profile and a western/yo.


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## franzb69 (Feb 18, 2013)

only knife i can think of with german profiles are shuns. shuns don't get a lot of love on here. =D


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## Meals (Feb 18, 2013)

That's what I have read, my gf said...whats wrong w shuns, SW sells them


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## franzb69 (Feb 18, 2013)

kasumi brand knives have a similar profile too. they don't get a lot of love here either. oh well


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## ThEoRy (Feb 18, 2013)

Meals said:


> That's what I have read, my gf said...whats wrong w shuns, SW sells them



Way over priced for a mediocre vg10 blade.


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## Meals (Feb 18, 2013)

Are there any that I knives that I could try at Sur la Table or SW before I from the above site??


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## franzb69 (Feb 18, 2013)

you could just go on over to the closest place that sells similar knives that you are looking into and have a feel for them in person, it would greatly help in your decision. and if you don't like the knife you see there, at least you've held onto and have at least an idea of what you would want.


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## rdpx (Feb 18, 2013)

franzb69 said:


> you could just go on over to the closest place that sells similar knives that you are looking into and have a feel for them in person, it would greatly help in your decision. and if you don't like the knife you see there, at least you've held onto and have at least an idea of what you would want.



I did just that when I was trying to decide between a 210 and a 240 Gyuto...

The 240 felt waaaaay too big to me, so I got the 210, which now seems way too small as almost everyone here said it would.



Hindsight tells me "Listen to advice on here, and follow it."


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## franzb69 (Feb 18, 2013)

my bad. and yes. listen, but most folks start out not listening to advice. i did. lol.


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## brainsausage (Feb 18, 2013)

ThEoRy said:


> Way over priced for a mediocre vg10 blade.



+1


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## brainsausage (Feb 18, 2013)

I would check out the Buy/Sell/Trade(B/S/T) section of the forums, there's always lots of good deals floating around.


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## tomsch (Feb 18, 2013)

I too started with a 210 thinking a 240 was too big. Now with my main knife now a 240 the 210 feels like a toy. Still use the smaller knives but my Ginga 240 covers pretty much everything I cut.


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## Deckhand (Feb 18, 2013)

Meals said:


> Are there any that I knives that I could try at Sur la Table or SW before I from the above site??



No.

Theory put up some good suggestions. You should call Jon at the store those links go to. They sell everything you need, and he is very helpful over the phone. Except the bread knife which is one of my favorites. Tojiro ITK bread knife. I just bought another one and had it mailed to a friend in Hawaii who is building a custom ukulele for me. I already own one of the bread knives. Hope you at least get a 240mm length on your gyuto. I greatly prefer the wa handle. I have a 270mm Gyuto I use for almost everything.


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## mhlee (Feb 18, 2013)

franzb69 said:


> my bad. and yes. listen, but most folks start out not listening to advice. i did. lol.



I listened to people from the other site when I first bought knives. I got bad advice because I followed the wrong people. I didn't pay attention to the details, e.g., specific cutting characteristics that I was looking for versus general comments about performance, how sharp a knife can get. All knives can get sharp, even very sharp. But a sharp knife does not equal a great cutting knife. 

It's important to listen to advice from the *right, knowledgeable* people, not just anyone. Listen to people who have used lots of different knives and pay attention to what they write so you know what kind of knives they like, what they look for in a good knife, and what specific cutting characteristics are good about a knife. Because the knife that one person loves may not be something that you'll like.


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## ChiliPepper (Feb 18, 2013)

Also, to give you a complete and honest picture, there are plenty of places that sell a variety of good japanese knives at all price ranges, not just JKI. 
It is a fact though that JKI really goes the extra mile to understand your needs and give you important guidance, hence all the (deserved) love in this forum.


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## ThEoRy (Feb 18, 2013)

I'd like to mention also you may want to ditch the bamboo. Not good for your knife's edge. You'll want an end grain cutting board. Take a look at David TheBoardSmith boards.


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## ChiliPepper (Feb 18, 2013)

ThEoRy said:


> I'd like to mention also you may want to ditch the bamboo. Not good for your knife's edge. You'll want an end grain cutting board. Take a look at David TheBoardSmith boards.


+1 
even the softer kind of poly boards are better than bamboo, imho


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## f1addict (Feb 18, 2013)

Meals,

I'm also in Austin -- I have a Tojiro White #2 Wa handle 210mm Gyuto, Shun Classic 210mm & 240mm Gyuto, and Shun Kramer Santuko. Not the finest collection, but just started into this a couple of months ago. My next purchase will be the Gesshin Ginga 210mm White #2 Wa-Gyuto and a Chosera 8000 to complement my Shapton 1000 & 4000.

PM me if you want to stop by and see / handle my very small (for now) collection.


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## Meals (Feb 18, 2013)

Thank you all so much, I am listening with open ears and will end up buying with the advice I have been given.


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## franzb69 (Feb 18, 2013)

> I listened to people from the other site when I first bought knives. I got bad advice because I followed the wrong people. I didn't pay attention to the details, e.g., specific cutting characteristics that I was looking for versus general comments about performance, how sharp a knife can get. All knives can get sharp, even very sharp. But a sharp knife does not equal a great cutting knife.
> 
> It's important to listen to advice from the right, knowledgeable people, not just anyone. Listen to people who have used lots of different knives and pay attention to what they write so you know what kind of knives they like, what they look for in a good knife, and what specific cutting characteristics are good about a knife. Because the knife that one person loves may not be something that you'll like.



agreed. what i meant was in general. usually when people are misinformed or underinformed, they generally make the wrong decisions.


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## Meals (Feb 18, 2013)

Wow, I might as well toss everything I have out haha. What would you recomend from David's site? The lady said I was going to get a new cutting board for Father's dad. I was told bamboo was a slow cutting board, but if its damaging for my new blades its gone!

Right now I have a bamboo board which is large for Veggies/ garlic, med one for meat/fish and one for fruit that's med. What do you guys do? What's your set up for boards?


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## Meals (Feb 18, 2013)

Thank you fellow Austenite, I might take you up on that offer!


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## ChiliPepper (Feb 18, 2013)

It is my understanding that bamboo per se is not the real problem, rather the glues that are used to bind the bits together, which end up creating too hard a surface for your edges. A friend bought a "end grain" bamboo board, i.e. one that uses the ends of the stalks cut horizontally rather than stripes of the stalks themselves. Even then, no joy.
Because I'm lazy (and like to use the board itself as a tray to bring the chopped food into the pan) I buy poly boards, just making sure to choose the ones made with a softer resin, as they can be quite different.


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## Meals (Feb 18, 2013)

Deckhand said:


> No.
> 
> Theory put up some good suggestions. You should call Jon at the store those links go to. They sell everything you need, and he is very helpful over the phone. Except the bread knife which is one of my favorites. Tojiro ITK bread knife. I just bought another one and had it mailed to a friend in Hawaii who is building a custom ukulele for me. I already own one of the bread knives. Hope you at least get a 240mm length on your gyuto. I greatly prefer the wa handle. I have a 270mm Gyuto I use for almost everything.



For sure going for at least a 240mm, not sure if a 270mm is too much for a first timer. This is what I'm looking at getting one at a time, I like that wa handle, I like the stainless blade, not sure about going the white route.
1. http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com.../gesshin-ginga-240mm-stainless-wa-gyuto.html#
2. http://www.cutleryandmore.com/tojiro/itk-bread-knife-p124765 (when I get this I am totally making a video as a thanks for showing me this!)
3. http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...e/gesshin-ginga-150mm-stainless-wa-petty.html 
4. http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...esshin-ginga-270mm-stainless-wa-sujihiki.html
5. I have a $10 metal handle Chinese cleaver I got off Amazon, I think its okay for now... thoughts?

Next, boards? What do you all recommend?

Sharpening tools/ maintenance? Or should I just plan on sending them out since I don't have a clue.

Storage? I live in an Apt, I have this, is it bad? I can't mount a magnet strip on the wall. http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=13749337

Anything else you want to think I should add to my list?


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## franzb69 (Feb 18, 2013)

with that set of knives, that will be more than an excellent start. 

start off with a 1k and a 4-6k stone. or even a combo j-stone. 

board, knives, and stones. looks pretty good to me. maybe consider knife sheaths / edge guards when storing them in a drawer or something.


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## chinacats (Feb 18, 2013)

I think you are on the right track, but instead of just buying those knives, I would definitely take the time to speak with Jon (owner of JKI) as he will help to make sure you get what you want/match your needs. I also would recommend a small investment in a couple of stones and a board from the Boardsmith. 
Meanwhile, you can check out some of Jon's sharpening videos here; should be enough to help you get started sharpening your own blades--and don't throw away the old knives as they make for good practice sharpening (though the old ones will actually be harder to sharpen and remove burrs than the new knives). If you prefer to have a dvd then this sites owner Dave offers one that many people enjoy as well and you can find it here.
Both Jon and Dave sell a nice assortment of stones as well.
Cheers!


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## Deckhand (Feb 19, 2013)

Meals said:


> For sure going for at least a 240mm, not sure if a 270mm is too much for a first timer. This is what I'm looking at getting one at a time, I like that wa handle, I like the stainless blade, not sure about going the white route.
> 1. http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com.../gesshin-ginga-240mm-stainless-wa-gyuto.html#
> 2. http://www.cutleryandmore.com/tojiro/itk-bread-knife-p124765 (when I get this I am totally making a video as a thanks for showing me this!)
> 3. http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...e/gesshin-ginga-150mm-stainless-wa-petty.html
> ...



I use an ultimate edge deluxe knife bag for storage. There are elaborate threads on here for stones. Dave or Jon can give you all the advice you need on sharpening. They are both experts. With their help and some magnum sharpies you should be fine. I understand how you feel about metal choices. My go to knife is a stainless gyuto, but opinions and experiences on this vary person to person. As far as gyuto length I am very happy and not even remotely intimidated by my 270mm. When you are using a laser style gyuto it will be a non issue. Just make sure you get a decent sized cutting board. I have the Boardsmith maple magnum, and I am really happy with it. I noticed your sujihiki is a 270mm. I truly believe you should get a 300mm you will be much happier. Hope this helps.


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## franzb69 (Feb 19, 2013)

yup excellent knife bag that is, ultimate edge deluxe. i have one myself. =D


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## Meals (Feb 19, 2013)

SICK BAG...love it. I was reading more this morning and looks like a lot of people like the 270mm, what about the petty, 120 or 150?


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## franzb69 (Feb 19, 2013)

150mm would be the best length for all purpose. 

270mm slicers are great all arounder, but yes a 300 would do better for larger sized fare. =D


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## jared08 (Feb 19, 2013)

Mark will help you out big time too. He has a huge variety of brands and knives and is willing to go the extra step to make sure you are satisfied with your purchase. Customer service if something isnt perfect is second to none as well.. just a suggestion to open up options. ive bought a tojiro itk, shapton stones, and a sujihiki from him. nicest guy in the world and has a forum of experts(like this one) there to help out decisions. just my 2 cents if it matters..


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## jared08 (Feb 19, 2013)

i dont know why the link is ** out but it is "chef knives to go"


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## ThEoRy (Feb 19, 2013)

Here we go again....


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## Deckhand (Feb 19, 2013)

ThEoRy said:


> Here we go again....



Hahahahaha. My thoughts exactly.


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## chinacats (Feb 20, 2013)

jared08 said:


> i dont know why the link is ** out but it is "chef knives to go"



NNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess why it's ***** out! 

Cause it ******* sucks!

And his experts ******* suck too!


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## mhlee (Feb 20, 2013)

chinacats said:


> NNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Guess why it's ***** out!
> 
> ...



:haha4:


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## franzb69 (Feb 20, 2013)

:biggrin::hungry:



lol


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## brainsausage (Feb 20, 2013)

Sooooo, anyways- the OP was looking for a knife not a re-re-dredging of all too recent ancient history methinks...


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## keegan (Feb 20, 2013)

I have the Gesshin Ginga 240mm (mine is white carbon, thou) and love it. The geometry and balance is really excellent, fit and finish are also really impressive. The blade actually measures closer to 230 (measurements on this series includes the tang between the blade and the handle), and it is an excellent size (I'm very comfortable with a 240 or 210, but 270 is too long for me, 180 too short). 

I also have the Gesshin Uraku 150mm. Great petty size, similar praise for geometry and balance. But I wish I had got the Ginga version of this knife as the fit and finish of the Ginga line is worth the extra $40. Rounded tang and nicer grind on the steel with a little smoother handle. My wife loves this knife, I mostly stick with the gyuto.

Personally I really love the shape of these knives and the color of the plain blades and ho wood handles. Really pretty in your hand and on display. They are the two on the left in this photo:





http://mkeeganuhl.com/onestar/130218_0001.jpg

That bread knife was also from Jon at JKI. Its cheap looking but works great and was I think like $40. 



ThEoRy said:


> Reason I ask is if you are just cutting Maki you don't want a yanagiba. A sujihiki may be more versatile for you. For a beginner sharpening a yanagiba may prove a challenge as well.
> 
> You've got about $800 there, I would say to use up to $250 on a gyuto like this:
> 
> ...


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## keegan (Feb 20, 2013)

I find the better your knife skills, the more able to handle and be nimble with a longer length gyuto like 240, 270. The shorter knives are a little easier to handle. My sweet spot is 210 as I'm still no pro with my knife skills and am just an avid home cook in a small apartment. Definitely go somewhere where you can handle all the knifes and really test out the way they feel in your hand. It makes all the difference if you get something YOU are comfortable with, instead of what other people like or might recommend.



Meals said:


> SICK BAG...love it. I was reading more this morning and looks like a lot of people like the 270mm, what about the petty, 120 or 150?


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## chinacats (Feb 20, 2013)

brainsausage said:


> Sooooo, anyways- the OP was looking for a knife not a re-re-dredging of all too recent ancient history methinks...



Yep, my bad--sorry to OP for going off topic. I blame the alcohol--and the subject.

Cheers!


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## brainsausage (Feb 20, 2013)

chinacats said:


> Yep, my bad--sorry to OP for going off topic. I blame the alcohol--and the subject.
> 
> 
> Cheers!



Usually I'm the one saying this!


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## mhlee (Feb 20, 2013)

+1 to the Gesshin Ginga 240. I have the White #2 gyuto as well and I love it. 

It's got great fit and finish, is light with good balance, has excellent cutting characteristics, is thin but stiff, and provides very good feedback when cutting.


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## Meals (Feb 20, 2013)

chinacats said:


> Yep, my bad--sorry to OP for going off topic. I blame the alcohol--and the subject.
> 
> Cheers!




LOL Now worries, I am learning a lot while I sip my night cap lol

I will have to so somewhere to try a 240 vs 270...I am guess it's something that might take a bit to get used to.


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## Meals (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks for the info keegan, I will have to find a place in Austin to go to.


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## tomsch (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm not a pro at knife handling and speed but I do OK and don't manage to cut a finger off. I think the weight and balance also play a part in the size choice. I also have a Gesshin Ginga 240 and it is so light and well balanced that it is easy and natural to use. More so than my Artifex 210 which I seem to manage to cut myself more than any other knife I own. The blade profile is a little short and the heel of the knife is too close to the handle which results in nicks in normal use.


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## Meals (Feb 24, 2013)

Thanks for your input!


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## Meals (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm looking sharp on Friday night, and by that I mean I'm looking into buying knives!!!


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## Dave Martell (Mar 1, 2013)

jared08 said:


> Mark will help you out big time too. He has a huge variety of brands and knives and is willing to go the extra step to make sure you are satisfied with your purchase. Customer service if something isnt perfect is second to none as well.. just a suggestion to open up options. ive bought a tojiro itk, shapton stones, and a sujihiki from him. nicest guy in the world and has a forum of experts(like this one) there to help out decisions. just my 2 cents if it matters..







jared08 said:


> i dont know why the link is ** out but it is "chef knives to go"




The link is blocked because it's being censored. We ask that you don't work around the censors because they're in place for a reason. Doing so is in violation of our [URL="http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/8110-Vendor-and-Membership-Terms-of-Use?p=137749&viewfull=1#post137749"]*Terms of Use* that you agreed to when signing up to the forum.


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## jared08 (Mar 2, 2013)

Ive been informed via pm about this. Apologize and it wont happen again..


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## Meals (Mar 10, 2013)

I need a cleaver. Will use it hack through chicken bones ect, any ideas?


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## ThEoRy (Mar 10, 2013)

Meals said:


> I need a cleaver. Will use it hack through chicken bones ect, any ideas?



Tojiro 240mm yo-deba.

[video=youtube_share;urIeUid1TMo]http://youtu.be/urIeUid1TMo[/video]

[video=youtube_share;CI7CGphzXYI]http://youtu.be/CI7CGphzXYI[/video]


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## Igasho (Mar 10, 2013)

ThEoRy said:


> Tojiro 240mm yo-deba.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;urIeUid1TMo]http://youtu.be/urIeUid1TMo[/video]
> 
> [video=youtube_share;CI7CGphzXYI]http://youtu.be/CI7CGphzXYI[/video]



ooo airline breasts


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## Meals (Mar 10, 2013)

Wow really? Wait so what do I use the Gesshin Ginga 260 for? Which I don't buy yet... Next paycheck. Sorry I'm new at this. At this point I should just ask what do I need and what should I get. Again I'm a home want to be chef. I'm good too.

I guess I need a chef knife, a butching knife, a knife for slicing/ carving/ sushi, that bad ass bread knife oh maybe a fish filet knife.

Okay you guys let me know what you come up with and I will order away.


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## Chef Doom (Mar 11, 2013)

I have some advice that may be a different direction from everyone else. This would be before you spend a lot of money at once. 

1. Get one 240 mm carbon gyuto less than $150.

2. Buy a 1000 or 2000 grit water stone, and optionally a general all purpose stone holder.

3. Buy a better cutting board. Seriously!

4. Stop rock chopping and walking your blade. SERIOUSLY!

5. Watch all of the sharpening videos from the Japanese Knife Imports Youtube channel.

Then spend a couple of months with your one knife and one sharpening stone and it will give you a lot of insight into your future purchases. Do everything with this knife, no matter how big or small the task. Patience is truly a virtue in your situation. You just gotta ask yourself a few questions in the process. Is my gyuto too long or too short. Do I really want to spend the time it takes to take care of a carbon blade. What are my limitations with my sharpening stone. Is my knife too short or too tall for the task. How much does a lack of edge retention irritate you. What am I missing that would be really helpful.

It may seem like an unnecessary expense at first, especially when you have the money to jump in right away, but it will be well worth it in time. You will wind up with more questions and avoid more headaches in the long run. Maybe even save a little money in the long run. Or not, this would is a wallet drain after all. You won't even have to thank me later, even though I know you will want to.


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## Meals (Mar 11, 2013)

Great advice I really don't know how the carbon blade compares to the non carbon. I not really sure what extra Maintiance is involved and more importantly I don't think I would want to do it


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## Meals (Mar 11, 2013)

Still trying to decide on my guyto, I checked out the miyabi 9" birchwood today, has an sg2 blade. After check this out I know I do want a wa handle. Further more what are your thoughts on this knife? 
http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-695916/Miyabi-Birchwood-Chefs-Knives


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## Chef Doom (Mar 11, 2013)

I haven't used one. You won't find any of the Henckle's lines (including Miyabi) or Shuns recommended in this forum for the most part. Or any other knife forum with a kitchen dedicated thread from what I have seen. Not that there is anything wrong with them. It's just the way it is. But if you plan on freehand sharpening it yourself, then kiss that perfect damascus finish good bye. It is only there for looks anyways. It won't simply rub off, you will gradually scratch it away. Unless you sharpen your edge at a high angle, which will take away the sharpness.

For the the price I would payfor a Miyabi, I can think of better options.


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## Meals (Mar 11, 2013)

Chef Doom said:


> I haven't used one. You won't find any of the Henckle's lines (including Miyabi) or Shuns recommended in this forum for the most part. Or any other knife forum with a kitchen dedicated thread from what I have seen. Not that there is anything wrong with them. It's just the way it is. But if you plan on freehand sharpening it yourself, then kiss that perfect damascus finish good bye. It is only there for looks anyways. It won't simply rub off, you will gradually scratch it away. Unless you sharpen your edge at a high angle, which will take away the sharpness.
> 
> For the the price I would payfor a Miyabi, I can think of better options.



What do you like ? I have been looking at the 
gesshin ginga but just want to know some other options.


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## Chef Doom (Mar 11, 2013)

I browsed through a lot of knife sites and dealers when I was first looking for a good knife. Also I went through knife review after knife review after knife review, and I still made a purchasing mistake or two. After my awakening to a world beyond Henckel and Wusthof, I did a lot of comparison shopping to know who sold what and what the overlap was. Although JKI is a cult favorite, Korin is also very reputable and has a wide selection. Korin is also posts on this forum which is a plus. Koki is a nice dude who is located in Japan and is trustworthy. If you really want to spend the money and take the plunge, then you should browse Maxim's site as well at JNS. I have not bought any knives from him but I did get a natural stone. The service was good and his knives are on par. I would visit multiple sights until you get the right feeling for this or that knife.

I am very willing to recommend a good starter knife based on my experience, but I hesitate to recommend anything more than $200. It's easy to spend $300 or $400 on a knife only to later cry in your closest over your bad purchasing decision. And it looks like you want your first good knife to be your long term buddy, which doesn't normally happen until a few good and bad purchases are made. 

It's actually the opposite of buying a car. If I was to take you out to buy your very first car, and you had a $100,000, you are going to get an expensive car because it's going to be your car for a long time, plus you get to sit in and test drive for a few miles. On the other hand, you can spend $500 for a gyuto only to realize that you were in love with your $80 Chinese Cleaver all along, and now you need to upgrade to a $200+ cleaver.

But....if you really want to spend the money in a "can't go wrong" situation....and you want to avoid carbon...then you can consider the following makers.

Suisin
Heiji
Ashi Hamano
Devin Thomas (Always wanted one, never got one. Everyone praises his knives though).

And that is just the tip of the ice berg.


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## Meals (Mar 12, 2013)

Good info, I am really just trying to lock in my gyuto, it's hard when you can't try them. My budget is $300or less.
Kochi 240mm Kurouchi Wa Gyuto or the Gesshin Ginga have been what I looked into most, just looking for other options 

I am ordering these on Friday unless someone has a better boning knife 
Tojiro DP Boning Knife
Tojiro ITK Bread Knife

Not sure on petty for size or brand
Gesshin Ginga 160mm Stainless Petty - $180

In time maybe a slicing knife for sushi


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## brainsausage (Mar 12, 2013)

I'd skip the tojiro and just get a decent 150ish petty for your boning needs. I have an 90/10 bevel petty that I use in a pro environment and it works great for fine tuning proteins. It doesn't sound sound like you're breaking down primals or anything like that, so you shouldn't need anything sturdier than a petty. 

It seems like you're kinda hemming and hawing over a gyuto, while two of your possible options are carried by JKI... Just give Jon a call and discuss your situation with him. He won't try to up sell you, and will do his best to find the right fit for you. I do agree with Doom though, this likely will not be your last purchase in regards to finding an ideal knife. Hope this helps. 

-Josh


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## rdpx (Mar 12, 2013)

If you do call Jon, you might want to ask what he thinks of the Tojiro DP Honesuki....[if that is what you meant when you said DP Boning?]

Rules of the site say that I can't say mention I found this review.

By: JBroida
Beverly Hills,CA
This is one of the most used knives in my kit. A wonderful value and i have yet to find a honesuki that works better. The core steel will take a wonderful edge and does not chip easily. It stays sharp a long time as well. This knife can take a lot of abuse and still keep on going. The fit and finish was good,although the handle is not the most comfortable in the world. But,who cares... i still think this is one of my favorite knives.


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## JBroida (Mar 12, 2013)

that review was a long time ago... that being said, its still a good knife... since then i've found some things that are better values, better performers, or any combination thereof. Still, the tojiro is a good knife.


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## mhlee (Mar 12, 2013)

Chef Doom said:


> I have some advice that may be a different direction from everyone else. This would be before you spend a lot of money at once.
> 
> 1. Get one 240 mm carbon gyuto less than $150.
> 
> ...



Surprisingly, I agree with you. (I'm totally kidding about the "surprisingly" part.) 

I think this is a very good way to go instead of dropping $1000 on various knives that you're not even sure you're going to use or need. 

For 90% of my cooking, I can just use my gyuto. The last 10% is parer, petty (when I'm just looking for a knife within reach), deba (for breaking down whole fish), and yanagiba (for skinning, portioning fish, slicing meat - yeah, I do this, cutting sashimi). I have a bread knife - haven't used it in months; I have four cleavers, but really only need one - I recommend getting a thicker cleaver that you can use for breaking down chicken, fish, etc., than a vegetable cleaver if you gravitate toward using a gyuto for most of your general vegetable prep - and rarely use them. 

I would get that gyuto and a good stone, use the gyuto a lot, learn how to sharpen, and sharpen that knife a lot. I absolutely recommend a stone holder; it made sharpening much more fun for me.


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## Chef Doom (Mar 13, 2013)

That stone holder is like night and day. The purchase order for any new sharpner should be stone, holder, stone, flattening plate, stone, JNat.

You should keep in mind Meals that the Kochi you are talking about is carbon steel. So my powerful crystal ball is telling me you will buy the Ginga. Anyone that dares to go against the crystal ball will be stricken with the flu.


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## Keith Sinclair (Mar 15, 2013)

If your Gyuto price is 300.00 under my vote would be for the Gesshin Ginga.I have the Uraku & the stainless in it works well for cutting duties.The Ginga is a step up.These knives are superb & meant to be used.Your 240 Gyuto will be your main knife.

If you are thinking of stepping into the cooking world,I feel a boning knife is a must.I used mine all the time.The Ginga wt. a damp towel on the board,would be good for Maki Sushi rolls.That one Gyuto can do alot of things.I like the Hiromoto AS petty a workhorse blade,only the edge will patina because the core is quality carbon steel.

I would hold off on a Sugi unless you feel you really need it.Start wt. one good Med. stone,I like Bester 1200 or Gesshin 2K.Need a diamond plate to level your stone.And put JKI Jon's sharpening vids,the link shown on this thread on your favorites list & you will be on your way to becoming a freehand sharpener on Whetstones


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## labor of love (Mar 15, 2013)

Meals said:


> Are there any that I knives that I could try at Sur la Table or SW before I from the above site??



FWIW, the myabi artison line at sur la table is pretty nice, and priced pretty low i think. i dont like the handle but theyre good cutters. for the price atleast.


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## Meals (Apr 15, 2013)

So I am sure I am not going to get any street cred, but I made a few small purchases. I broke my old J H $20 knife opening a spaghetti squash, no love lost. I do really want a Ginga 240 Wa Stainless, but is out of stock...so is the petty I want. I really did want to hold the Ginga before I bought it too. I went to a local chain kitchen store and got a deal on a Global Hollow Edge Santoku and a Global 5 1/2 Nakiri as they were demo knifes for $160. They sharpened them for me, I do like the balance of the knife, its not handle heavy .

I am a home cook, and cut up tons of veggies as I have a vegetarian in the house. I do need some sort of filet knife for fish, and a cleaver, to chop up a whole chickens and to open spaghetti's squashes, although maybe I should get a Deba. If there are any recommendations out there, I did pick up the Tojiro ITK Bread Knife. I have watched all of Jon's sharpening videos, but have not made any purchases in the sharpening dept either, I have one other old knife that I can practice sharpening on too. I don't want a carbon knife, put I'm open to there brands ect. I would like to have a nice collection of different makes ect. So let me know what you think. I know Global isn't the greatest, but I will not be as worried when the lady uses them, and was a good deal.


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## WiscoNole (Apr 16, 2013)

Chef Doom said:


> That stone holder is like night and day. The purchase order for any new sharpner should be stone, holder, stone, flattening plate, stone, JNat.
> 
> You should keep in mind Meals that the Kochi you are talking about is carbon steel. So my powerful crystal ball is telling me you will buy the Ginga. Anyone that dares to go against the crystal ball will be stricken with the flu.


I would say stone and flattener are both #1 as far as necessity. you can sharpen without a holder, and you can do it with one stone, but that stone needs to be flat.


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## slowtyper (Apr 16, 2013)

THEORY, do you sharpen your bread knife? I have (and love) the same knife, I noticed its got a big burr on the blade now.


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## slowtyper (Apr 16, 2013)

Meals said:


> and a cleaver, to chop up a whole chickens and to open spaghetti's squashes, although maybe I should get a Deba.



Don't use a deba for chickens and squash please! Thats what your cheap chinese cleavers are for!


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