# king deluxe 800 & 1200 - Both, or just one?



## JWK1 (Jan 27, 2021)

My head is spinning with options for my first stone(s). I'm doing lots of research. However, there is another factor that's playing into all of this. I don't have the size chef knife that I want for my general purpose knife. I have a Carbonext 270 gyuto that I used for quite a while. I bought that size because of some advice I got from another person on another forum thought if I had the board room, I would like the larger 270mm knife. After using that for over a year on a nice big board I can say, "No, I do not." I want a 240mm gyuto. I am not equipped at this time to know what specific type of knife I would enjoy the best, so I have decided to go with a lower priced high carbon (because I love high carbon knives). This has come down to the Misono dragon or the Masahirio VC. I will choose one this week.

The point of having said all of this is that my searching has shown me that the lower priced King Deluxe stones really shine on simple carbon knives. My plan for now is to use sandpaper for the heavy work and get King stones for the actual sharpening part. I have a number of high carbon cleavers that I want to play with, so it dovetails into that, too.

My questions:
1. What is the purpose of the 800, 1000, and 1200 grit stones? They are obviously too close in grit size to use in succession.
2. Is it useful or practical to have both the 800 and the 1200, or are they also just too close?
3. Is it worth getting the larger sized stones for sharpening a 240mm knife, or is the typical 8.25" x 2.5" stone perfectly adequate? I would not mind at all spending the extra money on the larger stones if it makes the sharpening so much more pleasant. However, I have no practical experience in sharpening kitchen knives on stones, so I have absolutely no perspective in that area.

I would be very interested to know what makes someone choose one or more of these stones.


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## tostadas (Jan 27, 2021)

JWK1 said:


> 1. What is the purpose of the 800, 1000, and 1200 grit stones? They are obviously too close in grit size to use in succession.


800-1500 range is about a medium grit range that's good for general maintenance. It can reset bevels without much effort, and the resulting edges will give you a lot of bite. I like this range for softer stainless steels, and for my cleavers. To answer your question, I would pick one in this range, and not all 3.



JWK1 said:


> 2. Is it useful or practical to have both the 800 and the 1200, or are they also just too close?


My general rule of thumb is to double the grit (assuming you stay within the same brand of stones) for each progression step. For example, if you get a 1k stone, the next step up I'd look at a 2k or 3k. Similarly, if you want to go down a step, it would be a 300-500.



JWK1 said:


> Is it worth getting the larger sized stones for sharpening a 240mm knife, or is the typical 8.25" x 2.5" stone perfectly adequate?


8.25x2.5 is more than adequate for any knife size. How much bigger were you looking at?

One thing to mention, which you probably already know from your research, is that king stones require soaking prior to use. If you dont mind waiting for it to soak, or if you plan to keep it permanently soaked, then great. However, you may want to also consider splash and go stones instead for added convenience. I havent personally used the kings but depending on the specific line of stones, some dish rather quickly and will require more frequent flattening.


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## JWK1 (Jan 27, 2021)

I forgot to mention about the soaking. No, I do not mind keeping them permasoaked. It's not a problem for me at all. I don't care about the flattening. I do it with my King combo now (1000/6000), so I know what I'm in for. I don't know the dimensions of the larger stones off-hand.


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## adam92 (Jan 27, 2021)

I heard Hyper is better than Deluxe. I had no experience with Hyper, but I do like deluxe, is my first stone.


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## KingShapton (Jan 27, 2021)

If I have to choose between the King 800, 1000 and 1200, I will always choose the 1200.

Feel, feedback and performance, but that is personal feeling.


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## Kawa (Jan 27, 2021)

If you only have a king 1000/6000, I wouldn't even think about buying another 800-1000-1200 right now.

Unless you are at the point you already have 20 different stones and just want to try them all.

First I would make sure you have a complete range (with no gaps), same or different brand (doesnt matter that much: two follow up gritts of the same brand might have a complete different feeling).
If you want to extent your hobby after that point, you can buy the same or nearly the same gritt to compare or add nuance.

So if 1000/6000 is your only stone right now, I would go for a coarse stone like 220-400 range and maybe a 2k-4k stone, depending on how much money you want to use.


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## mooncake (Jan 27, 2021)

I have used Hyper and Deluxe 800,1000.
Hyper is an aggressive ceramic stone which is made of white al oxide and zircon oxide.
Deluxe is made of cheaper brown bauxite. 
For abrasive power, Hyper is at least 2 times of Deluxe.
However, Hyper is over- priced.
You can use similar stone at lower price.


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## daveb (Jan 27, 2021)

JWK1 said:


> I forgot to mention about the soaking. No, I do not mind keeping them permasoaked. It's not a problem for me at all. I don't care about the flattening. I do it with my King combo now (1000/6000), so I know what I'm in for. I don't know the dimensions of the larger stones off-hand.


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## cotedupy (Jan 28, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> If I have to choose between the King 800, 1000 and 1200, I will always choose the 1200.
> 
> Feel, feedback and performance, but that is personal feeling.



^

I don't have the knowledge to compare them as others do. But my permasoaked King 1.2k is _just great._

And even if you have a 1/6k already... they're not that expensive, so get one anyway!


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## KingShapton (Jan 28, 2021)

mooncake said:


> I have used Hyper and Deluxe 800,1000.
> Hyper is an aggressive ceramic stone which is made of white al oxide and zircon oxide.
> Deluxe is made of cheaper brown bauxite.
> For abrasive power, Hyper is at least 2 times of Deluxe.
> ...


Overpriced? In what way?

In the case of overpriced, I immediately think of the Naniwa Cholera's or Professional (regardless of the fact that they are very good stones), but I hadn't thought about the King Hyper .. Which stones are similar and cost less?


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## Cliff (Jan 28, 2021)

Is this for edges only? Are you interested in polishing? 800 deluxe leaves a nice kasumi 

ETA - don't mind me. It's for edges


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## JWK1 (Jan 28, 2021)

Cliff said:


> Is this for edges only? Are you interested in polishing? 800 deluxe leaves a nice kasumi
> 
> ETA - don't mind me. It's for edges



That's OK, I was about to ask why anyone would choose 800 since I gather there's no point in having more than one of these three. So the 800 is mostly for the type of finish, not for edge sharpening?


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## Cliff (Jan 28, 2021)

JWK1 said:


> That's OK, I was about to ask why anyone would choose 800 since I gather there's no point in having more than one of these three. So the 800 is mostly for the type of finish, not for edge sharpening?



Well, honestly, I have other stones I prefer for edges. I can't say I have tried it.


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## jwthaparc (Jan 28, 2021)

I would get both. Just because that's the way I am. They are cheap, and if I'm able to afford both that's what will do eventually. 

If you are picking just one 1200. Then permasoak it.

Or you could spend a little more and get the chosera 800. That stone is pretty much good for anything but major reprofiling. The king 300 can take care of major repair work, is splash and go, and is relatively slow wearing. A very underrated stone. If I had to pick 2 stones to use forever (and dont have to sharpen high vanadium carbide steels ) I would pick those.


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## KingShapton (Jan 28, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> The king 300 can take care of major repair work, is splash and go, and is relatively slow wearing. A very underrated stone.


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## JWK1 (Jan 28, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I would get both. Just because that's the way I am. They are cheap, and if I'm able to afford both that's what will do eventually.
> 
> If you are picking just one 1200. Then permasoak it.
> 
> Or you could spend a little more and get the chosera 800. That stone is pretty much good for anything but major reprofiling. The king 300 can take care of major repair work, is splash and go, and is relatively slow wearing. A very underrated stone. If I had to pick 2 stones to use forever (and dont have to sharpen high vanadium carbide steels ) I would pick those.





KingShapton said:


>



Good stuff, thanks. I'm formulating a plan.
In looking at amazon, I see there is a king stone 800 part 2 and a king deluxe 800. I can find no info about the "newer" stone. I don't trust the descriptions on amazon at all.

I'm thinking a king 300, king 800, and a shapton pro 1500. The cheap part of me keeps screaming that the SP is more than twice the price of the King. The long range planning part of my brain tells me that in two years, when I still have exactly what I want for sharpening for a great working edge, I won't care about the extra $35. The cheap part says it will be a lot more than $35, 'cuz now you won't be spending over $99 at SS and you will have to pay for shipping. And on and on they go...


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## mooncake (Jan 28, 2021)

I have used King 300,It is better to use in carbon steel ,not stainless steel.


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## Staystrapped (Jan 28, 2021)

I have the king 300 and it works well, followed by an sp1000 takes care of most knives


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## Garm (Jan 29, 2021)

How is the King 300 speedwise compared to JNS 300, SP 320 or Naniwa Pro 400?


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## jwthaparc (Jan 29, 2021)

Garm said:


> How is the King 300 speedwise compared to JNS 300, SP 320 or Naniwa Pro 400?


Dont have any of those to compare to. It keeps up with my cerax 320, and wears A LOT slower. Its slower than my shapton kuromaku 120, but so are most stones, but it can take out the 120 scratches relatively quickly.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 29, 2021)

Garm said:


> How is the King 300 speedwise compared to JNS 300, SP 320 or Naniwa Pro 400?



My JNS300 is faster than my King 300 Deluxe.
The first one is the JNS300; the second, King 300.
JNS 300 is wider, but thinner than King 300.


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## Garm (Jan 29, 2021)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> My JNS300 is faster than my King 300 Deluxe.
> The first one is the JNS300; the second, King 300.
> JNS 300 is wider, but thinner than King 300.
> 
> View attachment 111906


I had a JNS 300 that I sold a while back, which I've been regretting ever since.
Replacing it would be considerably more expensive than going for the King.
Do they work/act somewhat similarly even if the King is slower? I loved the precision, feel, and slow wear of the JNS.
Probably the most unique coarse stone I've used.

Edit: Didn't mean to hijack the thread. Apologies OP.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 29, 2021)

Garm said:


> I had a JNS 300 that I sold a while back, which I've been regretting ever since.
> Replacing it would be considerably more expensive than going for the King.
> Do they work/act somewhat similarly even if the King is slower? I loved the precision, feel, and slow wear of the JNS.
> Probably the most unique coarse stone I've used.
> ...




JNS 300 feels somewhat softer releasing more swarf, although it doesn't dish fast.
King 300 is harder and releases less swarf. It works well for setting a bevel, but i wouldn't use it to thin.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 29, 2021)

This is the result of a quick finish from both stones on the sides of a Takeda iron clad gyuto

JNS300


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 29, 2021)

JNS 300 over a little different light


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 29, 2021)

King 300 Deluxe


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 29, 2021)

King 300 Deluxe different lighting


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 29, 2021)

King 300 Deluxe again


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 29, 2021)

It feels and looks like JNS 300 have a coarser finish compared to King 300 Deluxe.


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## Garm (Jan 29, 2021)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> It feels and looks like JNS 300 have a coarser finish compared to King 300 Deluxe.


Appreciate the info and pictures!
I agree that the JNS looks quite a bit coarser. Do you have the new or the older version of the JNS? Just asking, because
according to the specs it shouldn't be wider than the King.
Anyways, for my intended use, it doesn't really seem like the King is what I'm looking for.


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## inferno (Jan 29, 2021)

have u tried the sp220?


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 29, 2021)

Garm said:


> Appreciate the info and pictures!
> I agree that the JNS looks quite a bit coarser. Do you have the new or the older version of the JNS? Just asking, because
> according to the specs it shouldn't be wider than the King.
> Anyways, for my intended use, it doesn't really seem like the King is what I'm looking for.



I got my JNS 300 in 2014. I imagine it is the older one as it is actually wider than the current width of JNS 300.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 29, 2021)

inferno said:


> have u tried the sp220?



Never tried it, but would like to try very much. My usual source is AFrames, but it's been some time it is not available there.
Any suggestions on where to acquire it?


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## inferno (Jan 29, 2021)

almost everybody sell shaptons.


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## daveb (Jan 29, 2021)

Amazon


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## Garm (Jan 29, 2021)

inferno said:


> have u tried the sp220?


No, but I have the Glass 220 and used to have the Pro 320


Marcelo Amaral said:


> I got my JNS 300 in 2014. I imagine it is the older one as it is actually wider than the current width of JNS 300.


Ok, that makes sense. I thought it looked a little different from mine in the pictures. Scratch pattern looks similar though.


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## inferno (Jan 29, 2021)

the glass is better than the pro imo. but you get less stone.


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## Dave Martell (Jan 29, 2021)

The King 1200x is one of my favorite sharpening stones. I admit that I use the Bester 1200x way more but that's only because it cuts crazy fast but for feel, feedback, and edge quality I prefer the King 1200x.

The King 800x is a nice stone for starting off a kasumi finish on some knives but it's never been my go to for sharpening as it's too soft and wears fast and doesn't really cut/set a clean edge like the 1200x does.


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## kidsos (Jan 29, 2021)

KingShapton said:


>


Me three!


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## JWK1 (Jan 29, 2021)

Dave Martell said:


> The King 1200x is one of my favorite sharpening stones. I admit that I use the Bester 1200x way more but that's only because it cuts crazy fast but for feel, feedback, and edge quality I prefer the King 1200x.
> 
> The King 800x is a nice stone for starting off a kasumi finish on some knives but it's never been my go to for sharpening as it's too soft and wears fast and doesn't really cut/set a clean edge like the 1200x does.



Thank you so much for that. It explains a lot to me.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jan 30, 2021)

Dave Martells reason for liking the 1200 is exactly why I’ve kept mine and will continue to do so even though I’ve got diamond plates and other stuff that cuts way faster. I still love the feel, edges and polish for building upon and it doesn’t wear as fast as the 800 or 1000 so it’s at least tolerable in that regard once perma soaked


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## jwthaparc (Jan 30, 2021)

I use my king 300 to thin all the time. Usually if it was a ton of work my progression would be shapton kuromaku 120, king 300, then cerax 320 to clean up. For lighter thinning with more precision I would start with the king.


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## cotedupy (Jan 30, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I use my king 300 to thin all the time. Usually if it was a ton of work my progression would be shapton kuromaku 120, king 300, then cerax 320 to clean up. For lighter thinning with more precision I would start with the king.



This is v interesting... I may have to look into a King 300.

(p.s. if I didn't mention already - it was your permasoaking rec on the 1.2k that basically changed my normal sharpening. I do most things just on that now. Gracias! )


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## jwthaparc (Jan 30, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> This is v interesting... I may have to look into a King 300.
> 
> (p.s. if I didn't mention already - it was your permasoaking rec on the 1.2k that basically changed my normal sharpening. I do most things just on that now. Gracias! )


I should be clear the king 300 isn't the end all be all of coarse stones by any means. With that said, it is a good, slow wearing splash and go, that does exactly what it is supposed to do. That and you can't argue with the price. 

I use it 90% of the time to start my sharpening on the more neglected knives I get from customers, it eats away metal perfectly for my needs. 

Also that's actually means a lot to me. Thanks.


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## dafox (Jan 30, 2021)

Dave Martell said:


> The King 1200x is one of my favorite sharpening stones. I admit that I use the Bester 1200x way more but that's only because it cuts crazy fast but for feel, feedback, and edge quality I prefer the King 1200x.
> 
> The King 800x is a nice stone for starting off a kasumi finish on some knives but it's never been my go to for sharpening as it's too soft and wears fast and doesn't really cut/set a clean edge like the 1200x does.


Can you compare the King 1200 to the SP1000?


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## Dave Martell (Jan 30, 2021)

dafox said:


> Can you compare the King 1200 to the SP1000?




Yes, that's an easy one - they're not at all alike in any way. 

The Shapton Pro 1k is a hard stone with only a fraction of the feedback and feel of the King 1200x and requires a steady hand to get a clean faceted bevel whereas the King is a little more forgiving. The Shapton Pro is a LOT faster in cutting power though so if you can hold steady (even if going slow) you'll get a bevel cut fast on this stone. Also, the Shapton Pro 1k dishes a lot slower than the King 1200x does.


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## Dave Martell (Jan 30, 2021)

Dave Martell said:


> The King 1200x is one of my favorite sharpening stones. I admit that I use the Bester 1200x way more but that's only because it cuts crazy fast but for feel, feedback, and edge quality I prefer the King 1200x.
> 
> The King 800x is a nice stone for starting off a kasumi finish on some knives but it's never been my go to for sharpening as it's too soft and wears fast and doesn't really cut/set a clean edge like the 1200x does.




I had to quote myself since I just realized that I never mentioned the King 1000x in my above post and since that was included in the OP's initial question I felt I should throw in on that as well. 

So, the King 1000x - it sucks.  

Seriously though folks, my personal taste in stones leaves me wondering how this one became the most popular stone on the planet, boggles the mind. And to add to that mystery, it's almost always paired up with their 6k which I find to be their second most sucky stone....LOL

The King 1k is such a weird stone that I can't even describe what I don't like about it besides saying that it just isn't what I like in a 1k stone. It dishes super fast, cuts super slow, feels terrible, and always provides roly poly facets which I think comes from it's constant wearing away. 

Remember, we all have different tastes - don't kill me for mine, should this be your favorite stone.


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## inferno (Jan 30, 2021)

imo the shapton pro 1k is the best 1k stone ever made. its cheap, its fast, dish slow, splash and go. yo.


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## inferno (Jan 30, 2021)

dafox said:


> Can you compare the King 1200 to the SP1000?



there is also the king hyper 1k, normal and soft. or soft and hard version.
i have the normal/hard. its very good for a soaker. fast, dish quite slow. feels nice. its the only soaker 1k i think is worth keeping. 
the *old* jns 1k soaker was kinda good too. but the king was better imo.


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## jwthaparc (Jan 31, 2021)

Dave Martell said:


> I had to quote myself since I just realized that I never mentioned the King 1000x in my above post and since that was included in the OP's initial question I felt I should throw in on that as well.
> 
> So, the King 1000x - it sucks.
> 
> ...


Yeah, they should make the kds with the 1200, and 4000 combined instead.


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## KingShapton (Jan 31, 2021)

Dave Martell said:


> I had to quote myself since I just realized that I never mentioned the King 1000x in my above post and since that was included in the OP's initial question I felt I should throw in on that as well.
> 
> So, the King 1000x - it sucks.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you.

Nevertheless, I would be interested in one more thing - are your experiences based on the King 1000/6000 combination stone or on the two individual stones?

I ask because I have read here and there that the composition, the formula and thus also the behavior of the individual stones should differ from the combination stone.

In most cases, the experiences seem to relate to the King Combi stone, and that also applies to me. It would be interesting to know if there really is a difference.


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## Dave Martell (Jan 31, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> I totally agree with you.
> 
> Nevertheless, I would be interested in one more thing - are your experiences based on the King 1000/6000 combination stone or on the two individual stones?
> 
> ...




I've used the King 1k in both the combi stone and single stone formats but I only recall using the 6k with a combi stone. I never noticed any difference in the two 1k versions I used.


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