# Masamoto KS 240mm Gyuto KS3124 Available Soon



## Andreu (Jan 5, 2018)

Heads up to all fellow KKF members. I just got a confirmation with Koki (JCK) that he will be getting a new batch of the Masamoto KS 240mm Gyuto. This is the monosteel version model# KS3124. I didnt get the specific as to how many he will have but it will be available I believe next week. This is good news for those who hasnt had the chance to try the KS because of the lack of availability.

Good luck!


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## malexthekid (Jan 5, 2018)

Wonder what the price will be... and when they will be available...


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## Andreu (Jan 5, 2018)

malexthekid said:


> Wonder what the price will be... and when they will be available...



If I am not mistaken, but please dont quote me on this, it will be for $340.00 USD and it will be available next week.


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## K813zra (Jan 5, 2018)

So, there was one on BWJ, CKTG is getting some and JCK is getting some. Wonder if they are back in production or if they found a load of them in the back of the warehouse or something.


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## fujiyama (Jan 5, 2018)

Master Hirano is reaching 90 years of age; get your KS while you can. This stock has a laser etched kanji. 

Im receiving 4 of them shortly w/ sayas. I also expect 2 with the original kanji. Im sick of seeing these priced at $550 USD with no saya. Once I pick mine, Ill be passing these along to you guys at fair value. 

I expect the stock at JCK, CKTG, and everywhere else to sell instantly. Most stores will only receive a small batch. The back order is outstanding, the retailer I spoke to isnt expecting any more stock this calendar year.


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## HRC_64 (Jan 5, 2018)

these apparently are coming in at distributor level


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## labor of love (Jan 5, 2018)

K813zra said:


> So, there was one on BWJ, CKTG is getting some and JCK is getting some. Wonder if they are back in production or if they found a load of them in the back of the warehouse or something.



When I asked blueway he was uncertain whether he was getting more or not. He said he would find out after the holidays.


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## chinacats (Jan 5, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> Master Hirano is reaching 90 years of age; get your KS while you can. This stock has a laser etched kanji.
> 
> Im receiving 4 of them shortly w/ sayas. I also expect 2 with the original kanji. Im sick of seeing these priced at $550 USD with no saya. Once I pick mine, Ill be passing these along to you guys at fair value.
> 
> I expect the stock at JCK, CKTG, and everywhere else to sell instantly. Most stores will only receive a small batch. The back order is outstanding, the retailer I spoke to isnt expecting any more stock this calendar year.



Dude, yru buying 4? Don't mean any offense if you plan on passing along for fair price but this is why the market is ******* insane.


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## Andreu (Jan 5, 2018)

K813zra said:


> So, there was one on BWJ, CKTG is getting some and JCK is getting some. Wonder if they are back in production or if they found a load of them in the back of the warehouse or something.



I think its the latter part. Not sure if this will be back in production since this may have been old stocks that was just finished recently.


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## K813zra (Jan 5, 2018)

Well, I've been on the email list for ages. Hope I get lucky from one of these retailers!


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## Andreu (Jan 5, 2018)

Good luck! Hope that you get one. If not, Fujiyama can help you in that regards. Four Masamoto KS ordered. &#128512;


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## K813zra (Jan 5, 2018)

Andreu said:


> Good luck! Hope that you get one. If not, Fujiyama can help you in that regards. Four Masamoto KS ordered. &#128512;



Hah, thanks.


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## fujiyama (Jan 5, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Dude, yru buying 4? Don't mean any offense if you plan on passing along for fair price but this is why the market is ******* insane.


I get to choose from the creme de la creme. 

Ive done no harm to the market and dont plan to. Go talk to soreal, valkyrae, labor of love and all the others (ouch!). 

Ill be taking detailed photos including choil shots of each knife.


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## chinacats (Jan 5, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> I get to choose from the creme de la creme.
> 
> Ive done no harm to the market and dont plan to. Go talk to soreal, valkyrae, labor of love and all the others (ouch!).
> 
> Ill be taking detailed photos including choil shots of each knife.



Maybe or maybe not...vendor can pick any 4 be wants to send you. Not real smart on the vendors part either because it's not like he won't sell all of them. Whoever buys from you will have the price inflated by at least shipping plus PayPal. This is exactly what happened with Shigs and Katos. Also, those who buy from you get your sloppy seconds

BTW, I'm just a casual observer/commenter on this as I won't be trying for one...again just an observation...like the kid who tries to get all the candy before the other kids get their share but such is life...kind of reminds me of our pos trumper.

As to Labor of Love, he's sold more knives under cost than any member here...talk all the **** you want about others but you should leave him out of the discussion.


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## fujiyama (Jan 5, 2018)

The vender will send me the 4 knives I received detailed photos of. A brand new knife is hardly a sloppy second. 

I have nothing against labor of love or any other member here for that matter, but dont call me out for being real about it. I honestly thought it was a joke on his part..


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## labor of love (Jan 6, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> The vender will send me the 4 knives I received detailed photos of. A brand new knife is hardly a sloppy second.
> 
> I have nothing against labor of love or any other member here for that matter, but dont call me out for being real about it. I honestly thought it was a joke on his part..



Im not profiting from the KS I have in bst. I am listing KS at a high trade value for a shig/kato trade. All three knives have trade values above retail($525 KS for $700-800 shig/kato) I think this is very fair. If I cant work out a trade I also will be selling the KS for $340.
In essence Im fighting fire with fire.


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## Andreu (Jan 6, 2018)

Im surprised that Labor of Love was lumped together with the others. Craig is a stand up person.


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## fujiyama (Jan 6, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Im not profiting from the KS I have in bst. I am listing KS at a high trade value for a shig/kato trade. All three knives have trade values above retail($525 KS for $700-800 shig/kato) I think this is very fair. If I cant work out a trade I also will be selling the KS for $340.
> In essence Im fighting fire with fire.


Didnt mean to drop names, the recent discussions have me quite opinionated. I understand and actually I support that. I almost posted in your thread the other day encouraging a trade. At the end of the day you made a good buy. Someone out there wants a KS and has a drawer queen, it works out for both of you in the end.

At the same time, valuing the trade at $525 is $185 over retail. Why is it okay for a well respected member to do this, but no one else? I see one person taking all the crap for something were all responsible for.

Sorry to be that guy, but its time we stop placing blame and start helping each other out.


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## panda (Jan 6, 2018)

trades dont really work on monetary value equally necessarily. someone has something the other wants mutually and it gets done. just shut up about this already. 

on topic": unless it's really old stock, i'm pretty sure it wont be nearly as good as the originals were..


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## fujiyama (Jan 6, 2018)

Andreu said:


> Im surprised that Labor of Love was lumped together with the others. Craig is a stand up person.


Let me clarify, some members have done things to lose respect from the community. I do not consider labor of love one of those guys. I do question double standards.


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## valgard (Jan 6, 2018)

The thing is he's not selling, the knife he want's is likely to be inflated by $200 or more as well. It's just a way to go around it. And those knifes (KS) have been selling for more than $500 behind scenes.
This is the same reason I prefer trades of rare knife for rare knife rather than selling my knife and buying another, if I sell at fair price I don't get enough to buy the knife I want, if I sell at market then I don't feel great about it. But most of all I am not gonna have it that I sell my knife only to see it turn into someone else's profit right away. Hence why I mostly trade rare knives, only way both parties will be happy in the current situation.

And I don't care, I have nothing against what either of u are doing.


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## malexthekid (Jan 6, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> I get to choose from the creme de la creme.
> 
> Ive done no harm to the market and dont plan to. Go talk to soreal, valkyrae, labor of love and all the others (ouch!).
> 
> Ill be taking detailed photos including choil shots of each knife.


Apart from you are wrong. You are inflating the market.

Yes you will catch and release, but how long will it take you to decide?

For that time 3 to 4 people that wanted won't get that one, and someone who does get one of the other stock and sell at am increased price if said people really want it.

I'm not against what you are doing, just think it is naive of you to believe it doesn't affect the market. May be minimal, but if you take a few weeks to relist it may be more significant, at least to a few that really want one....


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## labor of love (Jan 6, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> Didnt mean to drop names, the recent discussions have me quite opinionated. I understand and actually I support that. I almost posted in your thread the other day encouraging a trade. At the end of the day you made a good buy. Someone out there wants a KS and has a drawer queen, it works out for both of you in the end.
> 
> At the same time, valuing the trade at $525 is $185 over retail. Why is it okay for a well respected member to do this, but no one else? I see one person taking all the crap for something were all responsible for.
> 
> Sorry to be that guy, but its time we stop placing blame and start helping each other out.



I would be more than happy to place the value of my KS at retail for a trade for a shig or kato whose value is also placed at retail. Either way the discrepancy is $150-250.


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## valgard (Jan 6, 2018)

Heck I have also stocked on a second sample of rare knives as trade bait, I see no issue with that, others may see it different but I honestly don't care.


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## HRC_64 (Jan 6, 2018)

Maybe the The bst guideliines should be modified
to allow trades based on pre-hype values 

ie, a 2010 value KS trades for a 2010 value Shig 
(+/-) proportioned cash &#8710;, etc


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## panda (Jan 6, 2018)

what people trade is no one else's business. besides what ever value you list it as doesnt mean anything. that's what negotiations are for and if there is someone to agree upon listed value, well that's between the two parties involved..


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## HRC_64 (Jan 6, 2018)

panda said:


> besides what ever value you list it as doesnt mean anything.



thats actually not true.

non-cash deals are not free market transactions
and should not be "priced" in to the market

(If they were free market deals
they wouldn't be PIK in the first place
they would be cash...etc)


edits: to make the point more clear


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## fujiyama (Jan 6, 2018)

panda said:


> just shut up about this already.


Thanks for the advice champ.



malexthekid said:


> Apart from you are wrong. You are inflating the market.
> 
> Yes you will catch and release, but how long will it take you to decide?
> 
> ...


Please, dont be so negative..

Why do you assume Im only interested in selling? Why would it take me longer than an hour to decide? Why is a one week wait a big deal if you want this knife? Would you have an opportunity to buy or trade for this if it werent listed here? 

These knives werent sourced from a popular retailer that would have emailed us like JCK. Im also quite interested in trading for jnats or other knives so people dont have to stretch their budgets.

Yes, shipping and fees effect the market. Thats why I purchased at a fair price.


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## fujiyama (Jan 6, 2018)

labor of love said:


> I would be more than happy to place the value of my KS at retail for a trade for a shig or kato whose value is also placed at retail. Either way the discrepancy is $150-250.


I know where youre coming from. Its a fair trade value in my opinion.


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## panda (Jan 6, 2018)

i have a new knife on the way i am thinking might allow me to release my OG KS in seek of a trade for a suji but all this drama is making me feel like 'nah imma just hold on to this' yall are so volatile.


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## Timthebeaver (Jan 6, 2018)

Newer members (who have created this KS hysteria) probably won't appreciate that time has shown the KS to be a pretty hit-and-miss knife. Old hands may remember a less than great batch surfacing on Rakuten a few years back.

However, the level of cognitive dissonance shown by any buyer will likely be so high that even an average or flawed knife will be fauned over. And the hype train rolls on.


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## Panamapeet (Jan 6, 2018)

I am going to buy them all and flip for 300%!!! Free market!!!! 




malexthekid said:


> Apart from you are wrong. You are inflating the market.
> 
> Yes you will catch and release, but how long will it take you to decide?
> 
> ...



To be honest I am kinda confused about what your opinion is now...


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## alterwisser (Jan 6, 2018)

KS are the new CM!!!


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## cschoedler (Jan 6, 2018)

alterwisser said:


> KS are the new CM!!!



Chelsea Millers?

:spiteful:


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## malexthekid (Jan 6, 2018)

Spipet said:


> I am going to buy them all and flip for 300%!!! Free market!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And there lies your problem... you seem to think I have stated an opinion somewhere, whereas as far as I am aware I haven't. Because frankly I have no real position on this cause its too complex...

Yours is quite obvious, your p!ssed that you have to pay above retail to try the blades you wanna try (though from some thing you have said I get the impression that even at retail they are really beyond your budgets, but that could be misinterpretation, or confusion with other members). 

Fare call, i understand that. I'm lucky that my profession, and having a wife in a well paying profession, means if I limit myself to a few purchases a year, then there ain't really too much that is off the cards... though personally I don't think katos or shigs are worth the mark up to me, or ks's, hence why I ain't bought one. But there are also heaps of custom makers or j knives that I don't feel are worth their retail prices to me, so I don't buy them. That's just personal preference.

My comments have purely been about two things. One people taking the "moral high ground" by attacking people without any real facts (which sorry but an ebay link to a few unsold items isn't that, but the last thread did turn up some juicy facts I wasn't aware of). Personal attacks are never called for, you got serious facts about improper conduct share them in the right way.

And also, peoples willingness to take advantage of makers/people in hard times flipping gear at heavy discount, but then getting their knickers in a knot when someone puts up a rare knife for what they deem it is worth to them... not really taking the moral high ground (as a community in its entirety here, not talking specific people just how the whole forum works). That hypocrisy doesn't sit right me.

Most of my comments were about the practicality of the forum policing price gouging, and negative feedback, which if you allow it, then I'm sure as hell going to want it moderated. I don't want someone with their knickers in a knot over me stating a differing opinion ruining a sale of mine. Just easier to not allow it.

So in summary, I don't think I have stated an opinion, cause I don't have one, its too complex. I just buy what I want, if available, for a price I am prepared to pay for it. I just comment about what I see is an impractical option for the forum, plus make some counter points to what I see as people holding double standards or just making illogical statements.

Wow, I'm gonna give you a gold star if you bother to read all this.


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## malexthekid (Jan 6, 2018)

Spipet said:


> I am going to buy them all and flip for 300%!!! Free market!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


PS... you wanna buy them all and mark them up at 300% more power to you. I won't be buying one off you for that. So i just hope you got the cash to sit on them for a while.

God knows you will probably sell a few of them.

But as panda said earlier. Who cares what someone has as a purchase price... the key is what it sold for, cause someone was willing to pay it.


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## bobbyb (Jan 6, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> Maybe the The bst guideliines should be modified
> to allow trades based on pre-hype values
> 
> ie, a 2010 value KS trades for a 2010 value Shig
> (+/-) proportioned cash &#8710;, etc



As an outside thing, it might work. Kudos for using the delta sign btw!


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## Wdestate (Jan 6, 2018)

so much drama for KS's, never thought id see the day.


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## bryan03 (Jan 6, 2018)

[video=youtube;Hv1a1zUrQI0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv1a1zUrQI0[/video]

:rofl2:


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## K813zra (Jan 6, 2018)

bryan03 said:


> [video=youtube;Hv1a1zUrQI0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv1a1zUrQI0[/video]
> 
> :rofl2:



Well then...


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## YG420 (Jan 6, 2018)

bryan03 said:


> [video=youtube;Hv1a1zUrQI0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv1a1zUrQI0[/video]
> 
> :rofl2:



That boy got the juice! He can slang them for $5k+ here on kkf lmao


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## K813zra (Jan 6, 2018)

YG420 said:


> That boy got the juice! He can slang them for $5k+ here on kkf lmao



Seems he can locate more than a retailer can.


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## panda (Jan 6, 2018)

what!!!???? i'm curious what he's gonna do with all of those. all these people commenting asking for giveaway, i hope those people never get one, lol.


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## Panamapeet (Jan 6, 2018)

malexthekid said:


> PS... you wanna buy them all and mark them up at 300% more power to you. I won't be buying one off you for that. So i just hope you got the cash to sit on them for a while.
> 
> God knows you will probably sell a few of them.
> 
> But as panda said earlier. Who cares what someone has as a purchase price... the key is what it sold for, cause someone was willing to pay it.



Obviously a joke mate. Get a sense of humor


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## malexthekid (Jan 6, 2018)

Spipet said:


> Obviously a joke mate. Get a sense of humor


Of course you were joking, and that was meant to be way more of an appropriate sarcastic response which I failed dismally at... 

But then again... I'm not the one stalking people out of this


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## panda (Jan 6, 2018)

you have much to learn in the art of sarcasm young grasshoppah


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## Andreu (Jan 6, 2018)

My goodness gracious. I started this thread so KKF members who wants to try a KS can have a fair shake at a it. I was not expecting for this to turn out to be a soap opera. &#128561;


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## malexthekid (Jan 6, 2018)

Andreu said:


> My goodness gracious. I started this thread so KKF members who wants to try a KS can have a fair shake at a it. I was not expecting for this to turn out to be a soap opera. &#128561;


Welcome to this forum these days... though I fear I contribute to that so I should probably stfu.... and take some of my own advise...

But it does make bus trips go quicker.


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## K813zra (Jan 6, 2018)

panda said:


> what!!!???? i'm curious what he's gonna do with all of those. all these people commenting asking for giveaway, i hope those people never get one, lol.



I bet he gives away at least a few. He has not only subscribers but people who support him on patreon and will want to keep them "happy". Fairly common to do such things on youtube.


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## panda (Jan 6, 2018)

well yeah it makes sense to give away at least 1 to keep the good juju going. but the desperation seething from those comments begging for a giveaway just annoys the piss out of me. i would be glad if he didnt give any away just out of spite. i commented on it saying he should do a lottery system just to be able to buy one off him instead of an auction.


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## K813zra (Jan 6, 2018)

panda said:


> well yeah it makes sense to give away at least 1 to keep the good juju going. but the desperation seething from those comments begging for a giveaway just annoys the piss out of me. i would be glad if he didnt give any away just out of spite. i commented on it saying he should do a lottery system just to be able to buy one off him instead of an auction.



Yeah, I get that. I have seen it a lot on other channels too.


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## DitmasPork (Jan 6, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> Thanks for the advice champ.
> 
> 
> Please, dont be so negative..
> ...





I just dont understand why some got their knickers in a twist over this.

There is nothing wrongnor should there bewith Fujiyama buying four KS gyutos, and potentially reselling. There are no established rules against doing a multiple purchase, and selling on knives. 

Many on B/S/T do the same. Ive seen knives on B/S/T that were bought for $325, and then selling for $600+, on account of fair market value and rarity of the productas well as perceived quality.

Face itknives above $100 are luxury items. You dont need themyou want, desire, collect themany cook worth their salt can prep a meal with a Forschner or Wustof. Owning a KS is not a god given rightI'm happy I got mine when I did, and do feel a sense of satisfaction knowing that it's coveted. I have a decent sized collection of J-knives, which I love, but would still be cooking without them. Its not like hes gouging buyers by selling water during a drought or a midtown taxi charging $200 for a short ride during the NYC blackout.

Valuation is subjective, market driven, self-correcting. To a large extent, buyers have the power to decide what something is worth. Hypothetically, if one manages to resell a KS for $650, its because theres a buyer that really wanted it and was agreeable with the pricethe market supported the valuation. If it doesnt sell, then its overpriced. It's over priced, don't buy it. I've yet to see a Kelley Blue Book on used knife valuation.

Fujiyama's actions are not affecting the marketit's more the result of an increased demand for rare, high-end cooking knives.

The assumption of fair price is fluidlook as the stock market, real estate, hand made charcuterie, food truck menu prices, etc. If a notable chef was happy with spending $800 on a Chelsea Millerits a good purchase for the buyerthey perhaps have an appreciation of rustic, unique, handmade knives from an independent emerging knife maker, it would be disrespectful to call it a waste of money. I know chefs that place a high esteem and value on Global knivesI personally dont. My Crate & Barrel pasta bowls are just as good (in some respects) as my Pillivuyt pasta bowls, but I dont regret spending four times as much for the Pillivuyt.

If I were to sell or trade my Shigefusa yanagi, Kato or Konosuke Fujiyama gyutos, Id surely do research on its market value before posting to B/S/T.

Its the free market on B/S/Tthere are no flip taxesthats capitalism. If I were to sell my Brooklyn apartmentwhich has appreciated very nicely via gentrification for what I originally bought it for, that would be silly.

On another note. I did notice that Honcho Knives is having a sale (w/ free shipping) on both carbon and stainless Masamoto KS gyutos. They look like KS, correct me if I'm wrong.
https://www.hocho-knife.com/masamoto-honkasumi-gyokuhaku-ko-buffalo-tsuba/
https://www.hocho-knife.com/masamoto-swedish-stainless-steel-buffalo-tsuba/


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## bryan03 (Jan 6, 2018)

https://www.masamotochefknives.com/product/masamoto-ks-wagyuto/
300mm is the minimum for real home cook


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## HRC_64 (Jan 6, 2018)

panda said:


> well yeah it makes sense to give away at least 1 to keep the good juju going....



Just imagine if they were Honyaki


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## DitmasPork (Jan 6, 2018)

bryan03 said:


> https://www.masamotochefknives.com/product/masamoto-ks-wagyuto/
> 300mm is the minimum for real home cook



Just send it to Jon, have him break 60mm off the tip, make it into a Kiritsuke. There's gotta be a market for an extremely rare, 240mm custom Masamoto KS Kiritsuke Gyuto, with a pronounced flat area!


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## panda (Jan 6, 2018)

haha that's what he should have asked for!


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## pleue (Jan 6, 2018)

You rang? :biggrin:





To be fair it was a 270 my coworker snapped on something frozen and when he went back to Japan I did a quick and dirty rehab on it.

I have a 270 vintage (40 years or so) KS. I haven't used it much but I guess I'll be hanging onto it. Is it just me or is KKF just a bunch of WTB threads about shigs, katos, and KS's now? Kind of a bummer. Vendors dropping left and right, maybe since people only seem to want three different gyutos nowadays.


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## chinacats (Jan 6, 2018)

pleue said:


> I have a 270 vintage (40 years or so) KS. I haven't used it much but I guess I'll be hanging onto it. Is it just me or is KKF just a bunch of WTB threads about shigs, katos, and KS's now? Kind of a bummer. Vendors dropping left and right, maybe since people only seem to want three different gyutos nowadays.



Pretty much sums things up...at least the Katos are great cutters--though insanely overpriced...I think people must want KS's because they haven't been around for a while. When they were, demand wasn't that high...


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## bobbyb (Jan 6, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Pretty much sums things up...at least the Katos are great cutters--though insanely overpriced...I think people must want KS's because they haven't been around for a while. When they were, demand want Stu high...



agreed, hopefully w/ the new batch, peoples' interest will subside, and we'll see something interesting on BST.


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## Wdestate (Jan 6, 2018)

pleue said:


> I have a 270 vintage (40 years or so) KS. I haven't used it much but I guess I'll be hanging onto it. Is it just me or is KKF just a bunch of WTB threads about shigs, katos, and KS's now? Kind of a bummer. Vendors dropping left and right, maybe since people only seem to want three different gyutos nowadays.



could not agree more, pretty boring stuff, especially since in MY OWN (had to emphasize that) opinion they are nothing overly special.
Luckily there is so many custom makers popping up now a days it will bring some new life, i miss people writing reviews on their new anticipated purchases (not that i ever did myself :dontknow


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## OliverNuther (Jan 6, 2018)

What happened to the WTB Sukenari thread on BST that started this whole bunfight? Its been deleted.


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## valgard (Jan 6, 2018)

OliverNuther said:


> What happened to the WTB Sukenari thread on BST that started this whole bunfight? Its been deleted.



business as usual, more surprised it lasted that long.


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## OliverNuther (Jan 6, 2018)

Me too I guess. Yay for censorship!


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## alterwisser (Jan 6, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Pretty much sums things up...at least the Katos are great cutters--though insanely overpriced...I think people must want KS's because they haven't been around for a while. When they were, demand wasn't that high...



Yeah.... I mean they werent even that expensive.

Its still mind boggling to me how someone would spend $500 or more on a USED (!!!) KS. For the same or slightly less even you can get a Catcheside simple forged or a Xerxes Primus.... both cutters that are leagues above the KS.... and Shigs, for that matter .... (at least the Kasumis I tried, cant speak for the others....)


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## Dave Martell (Jan 6, 2018)

Are we talking about the same KS knives I'm recalling? Seems like the hype has run away a bit on these things...LOL


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## chinacats (Jan 6, 2018)

Dave Martell said:


> Are we talking about the same KS knives I'm recalling? Seems like the hype has run away a bit on these things...LOL



Right? It'd be different if it was known for it's spectacular grind...people spending this $ for a sweet profile that's easily copied

I'm thinking Martell KS!:doublethumbsup:


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## labor of love (Jan 6, 2018)

Lets just face it, people like the KS because the kanji is cool looking.


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## alterwisser (Jan 6, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Lets just face it, people like the KS because the kanji is cool looking.



The Shig kanji is even cooler, IMHO. Oh, wait .... LOL


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## chinacats (Jan 6, 2018)

I thought the Kato kanji by the 5 year old had everything beat...actually there is something about the Shig fishhook that i really do like...but okay the Masamoto really is pretty cool... as an aside the worst ever is the SIH...only knife I every sold because the kanji sucked.... that and i hate lasers :lol2:

Sorry about the odd sentence structure...damn wind chill is -19f and its supposed to get cold tonight...me thinks my brain is frozen and I have to go walk the dog:scared4:


----------



## daveb (Jan 6, 2018)

Dog training is another hobby. Teach him to walk himself....


----------



## chinacats (Jan 6, 2018)

daveb said:


> Dog training is another hobby. Teach him to walk himself....



Bwah... then I'd have to teach her to clean up after herself...have a hard enough time working those damn poop bags myself... but I definitely like the idea.

Funny thing is that when I lived in NC, I'd open the door, she'd run into the woods, do her thing and come back, wont work here...she can't get in and out of the damn gate


----------



## dmccurtis (Jan 6, 2018)

Everything else aside, I definitely want to see a picture of that vintage KS.



pleue said:


> You rang? :biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## daveb (Jan 6, 2018)

That can't be a vintage pin. My oldest one I got last week...


----------



## Matus (Jan 7, 2018)

Hmmm, looking at the KS - I am wondering what the fuss is all about. Overly too pointy and rather low at the heel laser. A friend of mine (a pro chef) had one few years ago and was not impressed by it and sold it rather cheaply. 

I am really surprised to see monosteel laser to get hyped-up so much, even if it is a decent knife [emoji848]

Oh, and I had a good laugh about that selling at the market value discussion. Maybe we should have a similar one about natural stones, because there it is much more extreme. It is all about perceived value of luxury items. Like most companies on the stock market.


----------



## zeus241129 (Jan 7, 2018)

Matus said:


> Hmmm, looking at the KS - I am wondering what the fuss is all about. Overly too pointy and rather low at the heel laser. A friend of mine (a pro chef) had one few years ago and was not impressed by it and sold it rather cheaply.
> 
> I am really surprised to see monosteel laser to get hyped-up so much, even if it is a decent knife [emoji848]
> 
> Oh, and I had a good laugh about that selling at the market value discussion. Maybe we should have a similar one about natural stones, because there it is much more extreme. It is all about perceived value of luxury items. Like most companies on the stock market.



Just saw it on YouTube channel about one guy who got 10 of these knife. Kinda interesting tho. Well hopefully we could try this knife when one or two of our fellow kkf let go their collection.


----------



## K813zra (Jan 7, 2018)

Matus said:


> Hmmm, looking at the KS - I am wondering what the fuss is all about. Overly too pointy and rather low at the heel laser. A friend of mine (a pro chef) had one few years ago and was not impressed by it and sold it rather cheaply.
> 
> I am really surprised to see monosteel laser to get hyped-up so much, even if it is a decent knife [emoji848]
> 
> Oh, and I had a good laugh about that selling at the market value discussion. Maybe we should have a similar one about natural stones, because there it is much more extreme. It is all about perceived value of luxury items. Like most companies on the stock market.



No gyuto, for me, can be too pointy. In fact that is what I think is wrong with most gyutos, their rounded slow sloping tip. Pointy knives, for me, work better as all round tools in the kitchen. Maybe because I work with a lot of meats that need trimming and the shape, again for me, lends itself well to that.

However, the length plus the tip, maybe not so much. I think I would be 100% sold if it were 220-230mm. 

Pointy shape is probably why I favor my Misono so much.


----------



## HRC_64 (Jan 7, 2018)

ITT:

> KS is easy to clone
> This batch of KS will be **** because its not the old KS


----------



## K813zra (Jan 7, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> ITT:
> 
> > KS is easy to clone
> > This batch of KS will be **** because its not the old KS



But at the same time you will hear the same people say that if you are going to get a KS get the original because the clone is only a knockoff. Seriously, half the people in this thread contradict themselves from what they said in other threads about the same subject if you search the archives...Not that one can not change their opinion but it seems convenient at this point is all.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Jan 7, 2018)

Labor said it. People are geeking over the Kanji. Danny brought a passaround by maybe five six years ago. We both agreed is was cool but nothing special. I remember it having a really flat profile and indeed pointy tip and the 240 w actually 250+. Also the steel did not seem that hard guessing sub 60? Anyone laying down$500 for these will be buying a dream not really a reality. Wonder if Salty will chime in as he knows this knife pretty well.


----------



## HRC_64 (Jan 7, 2018)

K813zra said:


> But at the same time you will hear the same people say that if you are going to get a KS get the original because the clone is only a knockoff. Seriously, half the people in this thread contradict themselves from what they said in other threads about the same subject if you search the archives...Not that one can not change their opinion but it seems convenient at this point is all.



Its a myth that "any good smith" can just
knock out the designs of another Master.

I think SHig (smith) once said 
he could never make a Konosuke.

IMHO, the KS is absolutely NOT easy to clone, 
as even Masamoto struggles with it.


----------



## HRC_64 (Jan 7, 2018)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Anyone laying down$500 for these will be buying a dream not really a reality.



This is true of almost any j-knife.


----------



## K813zra (Jan 7, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> This is true of almost any j-knife.



Agreed and I have rode the hype train more than once and been disappointed. Not like I lost anything because at the end of the day, if I hate the knife, someone else would love to have it. Wouldn't be the first time I got something, hated it and traded it. Somehow I end up always trading knives for stones though...


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Jan 7, 2018)

Trading Knives for Stones is another whole issue of insanity. At least knife are tools that work for multiple purposes. Stones though, and at the prices, based on subjective appeal and origins. Try explaining that to folks that consider a $100 knife crazy. AH, love it.


----------



## Matus (Jan 7, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> This is true of almost any j-knife.



Indeed. I still rather pay that much for a well made sanmai blade than a laser monosteel. That is just my personal perception of value.

Edit: well made sanmai gyto that had not been hyped through the roof can be had for less than $500. Anyone around remember the price of Kato workhorse few years back?


----------



## RDalman (Jan 7, 2018)

Imo the KS is a sweet shape, with sweet convex that worked pretty smoothly the one I tried (after I thinned the factory edge a little). Awesome profile and I liked the not very tall heel. Not very laser maybe midweight. Yes softish steel. I think copying it as a complete concept is false mathematics, everything matters. Execution over design etc..


----------



## K813zra (Jan 7, 2018)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Trading Knives for Stones is another whole issue of insanity. At least knife are tools that work for multiple purposes. Stones though, and at the prices, based on subjective appeal and origins. Try explaining that to folks that consider a $100 knife crazy. AH, love it.



I am a stone nut, much more so than knives. I could happily live out the rest of my knife with a Misono dragon in a few iterations if it meant that I could buy hundreds of stones. I own about 3 dozen naturals, excluding nagura and have gone through more. Don't get me started on synthetics. And now I am getting into naturals from other countries. 

However, I do sharpen kitchen knives, outdoor knives, pocket knives and straight razors. Sharpening is my thing. Next comes cooking and then knives. Maybe there are a few hobbies between that those. 

My wife thinks I am insane when I spend $500+ on a rock. Didn't stop her from getting me one for my birthday last year.


----------



## tandis (Jan 7, 2018)

im pretty much likes KS series alot(simple, light, ez to sharp, great profiles but wear resistance isnt that good) if the price not bubbling much.
still cant find replacement for my ks sujihiki 24cm after tried so many brands. 
cant give much statement about wa gyuto as not suitable for my working environment(alot acidic stuffs), but for collection or at home definitely need one!!

and for sure everyone have a personal taste about their own knives. I think its worth it if u can purchase a ks wa gyuto for 300++.


----------



## panda (Jan 7, 2018)

ive said it before and i'll say it again. many people will be severely disappointed by the KS if they are interested in it because of the hype. it is much more useful in a pro setting, yet there are plenty of home cooks who seem to enjoy this knife. while i adore it, many people will be like '*** is this?' it is not a laser but it can behave as one if used in that manner (utilizing only front half) it's one of those that has to just click for you otherwise you'll be left scratching your head what all the fuss is about. for example: my first 'hype' knife i bought was DT ITK. i tried to convince myself that it was amazing but i hated that thing. yet it ended up being a blessing because i sold it to someone who i became very good friends (labor of love) with despite never meeting in person, yet i would consider him one of my handful of REAL friends. he too think KS is just meh, lol.


----------



## K813zra (Jan 7, 2018)

I usually tend to click with "meh" knives. One of my go-to knives is a Fujiwara FKH...I could grab the Ikeda, Wat, Kono etc but I reach for the damn FKH.:scratchhead:


----------



## labor of love (Jan 7, 2018)

K813zra said:


> I usually tend to click with "meh" knives. One of my go-to knives is a Fujiwara FKH...I could grab the Ikeda, Wat, Kono etc but I reach for the damn FKH.:scratchhead:



That reminds me of a conversation I had with a very old school forum member recently. His collection exceeded 40+ gyutos pretty easily. He had numerous Burkes, honyakis, DT Damascus stuff, and a lot of other things. Privately he confessed that an old Ichimonji TKC was his most used favorite knife.
There is some wisdom in there. Everyone should find their own TKC and no I dont mean that literally.


----------



## K813zra (Jan 7, 2018)

labor of love said:


> That reminds me of a conversation I had with a very old school forum member recently. His collection exceeded 40+ gyutos pretty easily. He had numerous Burkes, honyakis, DT Damascus stuff, and a lot of other things. Privately he confessed that an old Ichimonji TKC was his most used favorite knife.
> There is some wisdom in there. Everyone should find their own TKC and no I dont mean that literally.



I'm still searching! Not ready to give up just yet but I agree.


----------



## Barmoley (Jan 7, 2018)

Now, look what you've done Craig.... Now there is going to be a run on any knife with TKC in the name.....


----------



## labor of love (Jan 7, 2018)

Barmoley said:


> Now, look what you've done Craig.... Now there is going to be a run on any knife with TKC in the name.....



No! Its the idea of finding ones own modest performer. Jon stated on a YouTube video that he uses his Gesshin Ginga 240mm wh2 gyuto for maybe 90% of the prepping he does with gyuto. Pretty sure he has nice private knife collection. Find your ginga. My TKC is probably a wakui hairline.


----------



## Barmoley (Jan 7, 2018)

:rofl2: but people's reading comprehension is significantly lacking.... I am just messing with you.. I hope most understand what you are saying and I absolutely agree.


----------



## labor of love (Jan 7, 2018)

Barmoley said:


> :rofl2: but people's reading comprehension is significantly lacking.... I am just messing with you.. I hope most understand what you are saying and I absolutely agree.



I know man! I just talk a lot!


----------



## rickg17 (Jan 7, 2018)

(looks for a Ginga TKC KS....)


----------



## chinacats (Jan 7, 2018)

rickg17 said:


> (looks for a Ginga TKC KS....)



s0real has one for sale and it's only 4k


----------



## inzite (Jan 7, 2018)

chinacats said:


> s0real has one for sale and it's only 4k



and u pay shipping and fees


----------



## labor of love (Jan 7, 2018)

Ichimonji Tkcs are actually rare. Stopped making them a long time ago &#128512;


----------



## HRC_64 (Jan 7, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Ichimonji Tkcs are actually rare. Stopped making them a long time ago &#128512;



Found the guy with a stash... :rofl:











j/K


----------



## labor of love (Jan 7, 2018)

Haha I know, right? All 5 are in mint condition BNIB old stock! Seriously though, Ive never used them.


----------



## K813zra (Jan 7, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Ichimonji Tkcs are actually rare. Stopped making them a long time ago &#128512;



Are these the knives that the Kikuichi TCK is modeled after or it is the same knife or something like that? I think they were going out when I was coming onto the scene a few years back. I know when I was looking for a Kikuichi people told me to check out the Kanehide TK and the Carbonext and while they are okay knives neither knocked my socks off. 

I suppose that is another reason I have never given consideration to the KS clones. If a KS itself lets me down, well, it is what it is but I almost expect it from a clone. I guess that is weird as I don't even know what to expect.

I like to talk too...lol.


----------



## Meesterleester (Jan 7, 2018)

I recently posted a want add for a kikuichi TKC on CKTG. Would love to find an ichimonji though. Does anyone know if they can still be ordered direct from Japan? I have come across the site but had a hard time deciphering with google translate


----------



## YG420 (Jan 7, 2018)

Ive had a kikuichi tkc and regret selling it. It was a bit too large for me at 270, would love to find a 210-240. As far as the ichimonji, I tried to order one maybe 2 years ago and they were available then, but I didnt pull the trigger.


----------



## labor of love (Jan 7, 2018)

Id rather a ginga, tilman or a martell if I was going to chase mono laser western(those are my personal faves). Ichimonji TKC popularity probably was what it was because it was available in the US markets when there likely wasnt a lot of competition or choices for thin lazerish knives. We have plenty of choices nowadays. Everybody calm down.


----------



## Dave Martell (Jan 7, 2018)

The absolute worst runaway hype train was for the Aritsugu A-type gyutos! What a hunk of crap those things are. Well they do have massive performance *IF* you thin and convex the *ENTIRE* right side of the knife. So many people got hosed on that knife, I'm so glad it faded away.....


----------



## K813zra (Jan 7, 2018)

Dave Martell said:


> The absolute worst runaway hype train was for the Aritsugu A-type gyutos! What a hunk of crap those things are. Well they do have massive performance *IF* you thin and convex the *ENTIRE* right side of the knife. So many people got hosed on that knife, I'm so glad it faded away.....



And you love thinning and convexing them for people...:tease:


----------



## daveb (Jan 7, 2018)

Dave Martell said:


> The absolute worst runaway hype train was for the Aritsugu A-type gyutos! What a hunk of crap those things are. Well they do have massive performance *IF* you thin and convex the *ENTIRE* right side of the knife. So many people got hosed on that knife, I'm so glad it faded away.....



My sources tell me there is a revival of interest in Moritaka of all models, production is gearing up to keep up with the cultish level of demand and that there's a bald headed guy in PA that can fine tune them into a Ferrari.:cool2:


----------



## dough (Jan 7, 2018)

I feel bad for guys who arent able to get the ks bug outa their system. I personally love the profile but its not for everyone. Its really funny to see all these pages over the ks though a lot of conversation wasnt really about the knife which makes sense cause there is nothing new about this knife other then its hard to buy.
Also funny the 240 and 270 TKC both were my daily drivers for years.
One last thought If you like a ks get one from marko. Its overall a much nicer knife.
Anyway ks train carry on.


----------



## fujiyama (Jan 7, 2018)

I'm now realizing why you guys feel this way.. the hype train reality just hit me. I knew the HD2 sales were all hype and felt the same way towards that knife. I was bitter at the situation and even towards the knife and Konosuke (more to that). I knew many people buying them didn't know what they were buying. I had handled some and know they are overpriced for what they are. It's a good knife, but its not going to be everyone's TKC. 

Knowing all that, the HD2 eventually made my bucket list. I gave it a quick touch up and used it this evening. It's a knife that compliments my collection and I'll enjoy using throughout my life. I don't collect knives I won't use & don't keep ones that I don't connect with, they're too costly to have around. I knew what I was buying and I waited for the one I was after. I don't do hype trains.

Now I've accepted, people are buying knives without knowing a thing about them... smh.

In the case of the KS, there is one exception. Those who did their research haven't been able to obtain one. Other knives on the hype train kept restocking every few months, while the KS was being removed from websites all around the world. People reached out on the forums with little to no luck. I realize now that there's a lot of people on a KS hype train and ultimately, some will be disappointed. Yet I'm willing to bet there's more people out there who will love the KS; so it's not all one sided.


----------



## Dave Martell (Jan 7, 2018)

K813zra said:


> And you love thinning and convexing them for people...:tease:





daveb said:


> My sources tell me there is a revival of interest in Moritaka of all models, production is gearing up to keep up with the cultish level of demand and that there's a bald headed guy in PA that can fine tune them into a Ferrari.:cool2:




:bat:


----------



## Anton (Jan 7, 2018)

moritaka easily tops KS and Kato


----------



## Anton (Jan 7, 2018)

Dave Martell said:


> The absolute worst runaway hype train was for the Aritsugu A-type gyutos! What a hunk of crap those things are. Well they do have massive performance *IF* you thin and convex the *ENTIRE* right side of the knife. So many people got hosed on that knife, I'm so glad it faded away.....



How many of those did you end up fixing?


----------



## sloegin (Jan 7, 2018)

KCMA, was the one hyping the A-type. As I recall he burnt through several DMT XXC plates getting it to that stage.


----------



## Dave Martell (Jan 7, 2018)

Anton said:


> How many of those did you end up fixing?



I know that I did more than a few. The worst ones were where the customer had single sided sharpened them raising the edge up into the thickness making like a 45 deg bevel...ugh....brings pain to my brain just thinking about it.


----------



## Dave Martell (Jan 7, 2018)

sloegin said:


> KCMA, was the one hyping the A-type. As I recall he burnt through several DMT XXC plates getting it to that stage.




Yup, he was the king of the A-type! He knew what needed to be done and did it but not many followed his directions.


----------



## dafox (Jan 7, 2018)

labor of love said:


> No! Its the idea of finding ones own modest performer. Jon stated on a YouTube video that he uses his Gesshin Ginga 240mm wh2 gyuto for maybe 90% of the prepping he does with gyuto. Pretty sure he has nice private knife collection. Find your ginga. My TKC is probably a wakui hairline.


+1, my 2 favorite modest performers are the Ginga w#2 and Wakui hairline ss clad w#2 gyutos.


----------



## dafox (Jan 7, 2018)

K813zra said:


> I usually tend to click with "meh" knives. One of my go-to knives is a Fujiwara FKH...I could grab the Ikeda, Wat, Kono etc but I reach for the damn FKH.:scratchhead:



+1, the Fujiwara FKM, FKH are my frequently used "everyday" knives.


----------



## dafox (Jan 7, 2018)

dafox said:


> +1, my 2 favorite modest performers are the Ginga w#2 and Wakui hairline ss clad w#2 gyutos.


----------



## milkbaby (Jan 7, 2018)

Twelve pages so far... haha :stinker:



bryan03 said:


> [video=youtube;Hv1a1zUrQI0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv1a1zUrQI0[/video]
> 
> :rofl2:



I'm just sad that he didn't ask for Hattori KD and have ten NOS knives show up.


----------



## K813zra (Jan 7, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> I'm now realizing why you guys feel this way.. the hype train reality just hit me. I knew the HD2 sales were all hype and felt the same way towards that knife. I was bitter at the situation and even towards the knife and Konosuke (more to that). I knew many people buying them didn't know what they were buying. I had handled some and know they are overpriced for what they are. It's a good knife, but its not going to be everyone's TKC.
> 
> Knowing all that, the HD2 eventually made my bucket list. I gave it a quick touch up and used it this evening. It's a knife that compliments my collection and I'll enjoy using throughout my life. I don't collect knives I won't use & don't keep ones that I don't connect with, they're too costly to have around. I knew what I was buying and I waited for the one I was after. I don't do hype trains.
> 
> ...



I researched the HD and then the HD2 for sometime before pulling the trigger and I am not dissatisfied. However, I will say that I was not expecting a miracle knife either. I already had a Swedish and White # 2 kono laser as well as lasers from other makers. I like the profile and the steel and I am a laser guy so it was appropriate.  

I think I will like the KS, if ever I get one as well. As I said, if not, no big deal as someone else will.


----------



## GorillaGrunt (Jan 7, 2018)

I always thought part of the deal with the KS was a taper like the old French knives. I can speak for only myself, but Ive heard a number of people who have this knife really like it as a tool. Ive heard some say the opposite, and if the grind is inconsistent that makes sense too, and of course anything will be a good fit for some but not others. But as a relative novice Im still on the quest to find the knives I like best and Id like to try one of these. Something like a Tanaka I can just buy; something like a Kato I might have to wait a while but it will eventually come along; but the KS is difficult to obtain at the moment without any guarantee of future availability.

Add to that the collectors aspect, that it appears to be a beautiful juxtaposition of French design and Japanese craftsmanship, and I do really like both the thin (Shibata) and thick (Doi) blades with similar profiles as well as a notably tapered blade (old forged Sab, Gengetsu).


----------



## Dave Martell (Jan 8, 2018)

bryan03 said:


> [video=youtube;Hv1a1zUrQI0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv1a1zUrQI0[/video]
> 
> :rofl2:





:whyclick:


----------



## Matus (Jan 8, 2018)

Dave Martell said:


> :whyclick:



Ten green bottles, standing on the wall, ten green bottle standing on the wall ...


----------



## K813zra (Jan 8, 2018)

Matus said:


> Ten green bottles, standing on the wall, ten green bottle standing on the wall ...



You must look again, we likely drank the bottles...Regardless of what was in them.


----------



## Grunt173 (Jan 8, 2018)

Rikki,my hero......


----------



## BlueSteel (Jan 8, 2018)

No interest in KS at all. Heel is way too low for me. Lots of other places to spend knife budget on ones that suit me much better...I'm on the Toyama end of the spectrum, which is miles away from KS country.

Cheers,
Blair


----------



## K813zra (Jan 8, 2018)

Grunt173 said:


> Rikki,my hero......



I too enjoyed Rikki-Tikki-Tavi as a child.


----------



## daveb (Jan 8, 2018)

Something about a mongoose?


----------



## K813zra (Jan 8, 2018)

daveb said:


> Something about a mongoose?



Right, isn't that what we were talking about? Growing up I wanted about every critter under the sun and I had a lot of them too (I still have some of them as they live a long, long time). Closest I came to a mongoose was a ferret.


----------



## Badgertooth (Jan 9, 2018)

K813zra said:


> I too enjoyed Rikki-Tikki-Tavi as a child.



36 natural stones. 
Loves Rudyard Kipling. 
Kit and I are eloping.


----------



## OliverNuther (Jan 9, 2018)

Badgertooth said:


> 36 natural stones.
> Loves Rudyard Kipling.
> Kit and I are eloping.



Its legal in Australia now. First ceremonies were held today. JNS gift cards in lieu of presents?


----------



## Badgertooth (Jan 9, 2018)

OliverNuther said:


> Its legal in Australia now. First ceremonies were held today. JNS gift cards in lieu of presents?



Our wedding gift registry is there. Thanks guys. Love is love.


----------



## K813zra (Jan 9, 2018)

Bwhaha. I am pretty sure my wife might find that a touch awkward, at the very least. :laugh:


----------



## TheCaptain (Jan 9, 2018)

OliverNuther said:


> Its legal in Australia now. First ceremonies were held today. JNS gift cards in lieu of presents?



Wait, what?!? It was illegal to elope in Australia before?

That just seems, weird to me?

BTW how are you holding up in the heatwave?


----------



## OliverNuther (Jan 9, 2018)

TheCaptain said:


> Wait, what?!? It was illegal to elope in Australia before?
> 
> That just seems, weird to me?
> 
> BTW how are you holding up in the heatwave?



Eloping has always been legal, just not for 2 blokes. 

Its bloody hot alright. This is my first week back at work and the flour is getting a workout.


----------



## K813zra (Jan 9, 2018)

Give us some of that heat! It has been colder than normal here. Well, it is "warming up" to just above freezing. Why I ever left coastal area of Spain to return to this snowy hell is beyond me...


----------



## OliverNuther (Jan 9, 2018)

Yeah paper here reported Mt Washington recorded temp of -70C including windchill which just made me feel hotter. Its even hotter in Sydney which is south of me


----------



## panda (Jan 9, 2018)

this thread is so weird


----------



## chinacats (Jan 9, 2018)

Wanted to add this do you guys can compare your experience with mine from 2013 ( you'll notice that most comments about good KS models refer to ones from a few years earlier). Hope you all get a new person grinding the new knives.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/13891-masamoto-ks-just-a-project-knife-nowadays

Sorry pics are all gone, thanks photobucket...


----------



## gaijin (Jan 10, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Sorry pics are all gone, thanks photobucket...



I can see the pics, thanks to the Chrome Add-in "Photobucket Hotlink Fix". 

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/photobucket-hotlink-fix/kegnjbncdcliihbemealioapbifiaedg


----------



## labor of love (Mar 12, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> Master Hirano is reaching 90 years of age; get your KS while you can. This stock has a laser etched kanji.
> 
> Im receiving 4 of them shortly w/ sayas. I also expect 2 with the original kanji. Im sick of seeing these priced at $550 USD with no saya. Once I pick mine, Ill be passing these along to you guys at fair value.
> 
> I expect the stock at JCK, CKTG, and everywhere else to sell instantly. Most stores will only receive a small batch. The back order is outstanding, the retailer I spoke to isnt expecting any more stock this calendar year.



Fujiyama, Im curious why it bothers you that some people are selling KS $200 above retail(master Andre is the only member I can think of that did this) and yet you yourself have no problems attempting to sell konosuke Fujiyamas for nearly $500 above retail? 
How do you justify that?


----------



## brooksie967 (Mar 12, 2018)




----------



## HRC_64 (Mar 12, 2018)

brooksie967 said:


>



:rofl:


----------



## valgard (Mar 12, 2018)

bahahahaha


----------



## panda (Mar 12, 2018)

Anyone willing to buy Fujiyama for that price is their own fault for getting ripped off.


----------



## fujiyama (Mar 12, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Fujiyama, Im curious why it bothers you that some people are selling KS $200 above retail(master Andre is the only member I can think of that did this) and yet you yourself have no problems attempting to sell konosuke Fujiyamas for nearly $500 above retail?
> How do you justify that?



I have no problem with Mastre Andre! In fact, I bought his KS. 

The Fujiyamas are reserved for the big boys. Sorry you can't play!


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## chinacats (Mar 12, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> The Fujiyamas are reserved for *boy*s.



LOLOL that's a bunch of ********...can't and don't want to are completely different things. Ripping people off on any used knife is pitiful no matter the demand...go rip people off on ebay instead of this community.


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## Chicagohawkie (Mar 12, 2018)

Oh boy! Here we go again!


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## HRC_64 (Mar 12, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> Sorry you can't play!



did they steal all your toys as a kid or something?


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## Anton (Mar 13, 2018)

fujiyama said:


> I have no problem with Mastre Andre! In fact, I bought his KS.
> 
> The Fujiyamas are reserved for the big boys. Sorry you can't play!



oh c'mon, just leave


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## hmansion (Mar 13, 2018)

I wonder if it would be reasonable if there were a BST rule that a WTS thread must include what the seller paid for the knife or how much they're "in for", e.g.:

_WTS - Masamoto KS w/saya, paid $340 new, offered for $310

_or

_WTS - Masamoto KS w/saya & custom koa handle, paid $340 new + $125 rehandle, offered for $700
_
...the point being not so much to address whether price-to-market is fair or desirable here, but to at least provide a bare minimum disclosure of price discount or markup for potential buyers. Questions of damage, poor geometry, etc. still remain of course, caveat emptor, ...

Thoughts?


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## jljohn (Mar 13, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Ripping people off on any used knife is pitiful no matter the demand...go rip people off on ebay instead of this community.



Hi,

I'm late to this party, and I have no stake in this, but how do we define "ripping off" exactly? It seems to me that if someone honestly advertises (i.e. accurate description of of use history and condition) a knife for any price and someone pays that price, then no one was "ripped off." The Fujiyamas and the Masamotos seem to be getting the flak in this thread, and I understand why, but I just saw a Kato Paring sell for $290 this week. That's two and a half times what I paid for one a short time ago. That would be like a 240 KS Gyuto going for $750. Yet, the market sustains that. 

I would love to see a community that does not operate by market realities, but how could such a thing even be created? Imagine a little virtual world here where we had "no-ripping-off guidelines" that set certain standards like "no knife to be sold for more than its new price" or something of the like. Do you think that a Kato, Shig, KS, or Fujiyama would ever even appear in the FS board? If we can't create a virtual buy and sell utopia here, then market forces are the next best thing, and asking a price that someone else is willing to pay doesn't seem like ripping off to me.


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## jljohn (Mar 13, 2018)

hmansion said:


> I wonder if it would be reasonable if there were a BST rule that a WTS thread must include what the seller paid for the knife or how much they're "in for", e.g.:
> 
> _WTS - Masamoto KS w/saya, paid $340 new, offered for $310
> 
> ...



I think it brings into play information that is (1) not particularly relevant yet might influence sales and (2) information that could be impossible to define and verify.

(1) Is it relevant if I was given the knife as a gift by a family member, bought it used at 50% retail, or bought it new at retail? Would we want that information to impact an offer made on the knife? Presumably, the person who bought it used would receive lower offers than the one who bought it new, but there is no difference between the knives for sale. 

(2) Then there are issues related to defining the information: What if there was a trade. For example, what if I got the knife I'm selling as part of a deal where I I received two used knives and $75 cash in exchange for one knife that I traded away? How in the world would I assign my paid-for price to a resale of one of those blades? Furthermore, if I by a knife for a given price and send it off to be rehandled and thinned, I could list those prices, but what if I did it myself. There is added value there and actual cost, but putting a real number to that cost would be nearly impossible. 

Frankly, I see too many issue to make such a thing work. It's an interesting notion, but I think it's impractical.


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## hmansion (Mar 13, 2018)

jljohn said:


> I think it brings into play information that is (1) not particularly relevant yet might influence sales and (2) information that could be impossible to define and verify.
> 
> (1) Is it relevant if I was given the knife as a gift by a family member, bought it used at 50% retail, or bought it new at retail? Would we want that information to impact an offer made on the knife? Presumably, the person who bought it used would receive lower offers than the one who bought it new, but there is no difference between the knives for sale.
> 
> ...



Yes - you bring up some valid difficulties (trades vs cash, new vs used, bought on special sale at vendor, gift, value of seller's time to polish/thin/rehandle, etc.) and probably impossible or too time-consuming to attempt to verify. Still, this is a frequent sore subject here and I think some constructive discussion on how to add more transparency to the BST could be beneficial. Personally, I've paid 3x original price for a collectible item I coveted - but I did my homework and knew what I was doing. Was the seller scrupulous? With more transparency, the "scrupulous" question may not have to be answered, but at least we've put a stake in the ground to assist educating buyers.

I appreciate your thoughts :thumbsup: and would like to hear from some other folks, too! (Maybe this deserves a dedicated thread...or maybe not. What do I know?? :scratchhead: )


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## bkultra (Mar 13, 2018)

Free and open market... People can sell items for whatever they wish. No one is forced to buy anything they deem overpriced, and value is subjective. I personally don't care for the recent trend of flipping, but it is what it is.


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## brooksie967 (Mar 13, 2018)

I think the issue was one member being critical of another then doing the same thing that they had been critical of.


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## labor of love (Mar 13, 2018)

I had a chance to buy the same Fujiyamas when they were instock at Tosho for $500-550 and passed on them as theres a lot of stuff I like more for the price, the idea that someone is trying to sell them for a terrific markup is laughable(basically Sakai honyaki prices).I dont really care if Fujiyama (forum member) wants to rip people off, but he should probably try to be less hypocritical with regard to his comments in the future.


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## Barmoley (Mar 13, 2018)

hmansion said:


> Personally, I've paid 3x original price for a collectible item I coveted - but I did my homework and knew what I was doing.



I think you answered your own question and premise. The need to protect the public from themselves is a popular theme these days. Adults buying luxury items are in no danger of being hurt and should be responsible for their own decisions. Doing anything else is disrespectful, elitist and just plain impractical. Everyone on the forum is capable of doing their homework and know what they are doing, no need for hand holding. If I don't like the price of an item I don't buy it. We see it all the time on BST, some items sell out in minutes some need price adjustment to sell, there is no issue if the item is accurately represented.

I agree with labor though, don't call people out and then turn around and do the same thing when it works for you.


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## StonedEdge (Mar 13, 2018)

Everyone chill out. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head and making them spend their hard earned cash on a so-so knife that was popular a decade ago for its low price tag and European feel. 

It's a free world (no matter what people try and tell you) do as you please and let people do their thing as long as they aren't hurting anyone.


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## Jovidah (Mar 13, 2018)

I think the main problem here is that he admitted to deliberately buying more of them (for example 4 KS gyutos) with no other intent than selling them. He's essentially helping create the market conditions that he's intending to exploit. Whether you call it 'free market' or 'profiteering' may be in the eye of the beholder, but I think all can agree that it aims to benefit _from_ this community more than it benefits _to_ this community...
With such a clear and deliberate eintent to turn a profit on sales you could argue he should apply for vendor status or GTFO.


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## labor of love (Mar 13, 2018)

Even if someone is THAT into shiraki, it makes more sense to buy one of his knives that retail for $1200, not pay $1200 for one of his knives that retail for $530 for $1200. Whatever, let people make their own decisions I guess.


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## StonedEdge (Mar 13, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Even if someone is THAT into shiraki, it makes more sense to buy one of his knives that retail for $1200, not pay $1200 for one of his knives that retail for $530 for $1200. Whatever, let people make their own decisions I guess.


Not your place to make that call for someone else unfortunately.


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## labor of love (Mar 13, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> Not your place to make that call for someone else unfortunately.



I can make whatever points I feel like making though. Thats the point. This is a forum.


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## StonedEdge (Mar 13, 2018)

labor of love said:


> I can make whatever points I feel like making though. Thats the point. This is a forum.


By that logic the individual you're pursuing as unethical is within his rights as a forum user to do as he pleases..where does that leave you?


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## StonedEdge (Mar 13, 2018)

Just saying that all these posts about people's classified prices are just hot air.


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## dmourati (Mar 13, 2018)

Supply and command.


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## StonedEdge (Mar 13, 2018)

dmourati said:


> Supply and command.


This, coupled with the fact that there are no clear forum rules regarding pricing and volume of sales in the classifieds...so people whining about it is the same as the local elderly man yelling at the clouds, it makes them feel good, but it changes nothing to anyone.


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## labor of love (Mar 13, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> By that logic the individual you're pursuing as unethical is within his rights as a forum user to do as he pleases..where does that leave you?



Thats the exact point. Where does that leave me? Right here pointing out hypocrisy. If people are allowed to charge whatever they want for knives and theres people foolish enough to buy knives at inflated prices then in the same breath people will be around pointing how lame Fujiyama is(forum member). Ofcourse he can do what he wants, that isnt debatable.


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## K813zra (Mar 13, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> Everyone chill out. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head and making them spend their hard earned cash on a so-so knife that was popular a decade ago for its low price tag and European feel.
> 
> It's a free world (no matter what people try and tell you) do as you please and let people do their thing as long as they aren't hurting anyone.



I think the point was more along the lines of hypocrisy than the act of flipping itself. Not only once but a few times it has been said that 'flipping' was wrong only for the same people making the claims to do it themselves. Not unique to one individual either. 

I really don't care who sells what tbh.


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## chinacats (Mar 13, 2018)

This isn't about rules, it's about etiquette...this used to be a gentleman's forum...


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## pete84 (Mar 13, 2018)

chinacats said:


> This isn't about rules, it's about etiquette...this used to be a gentleman's forum...



Truth.

The hypocrisy is obvious, and IMHO is definitely in bad taste. Calling it out / thread crapping is also in bad taste. (Just my opinion here) 

Seems like a lose-lose situation, regardless of the ethics.


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## labor of love (Mar 13, 2018)

Pete, 
I asked a reasonable question. It actually was hardly even offensive or thread crapping. Unless facts are considered offensive. Indeed, why would one hate the markups on one knife yet do the same in worse degree to a different knife. Fujiyama never answered.


labor of love said:


> Fujiyama, Im curious why it bothers you that some people are selling KS $200 above retail(master Andre is the only member I can think of that did this) and yet you yourself have no problems attempting to sell konosuke Fujiyamas for nearly $500 above retail?
> How do you justify that?


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 13, 2018)

chinacats said:


> This isn't about rules, it's about etiquette...this used to be a gentleman's forum...



As naive as it may be, I agree. It's been slightly saddening to see a gradual slippage into an increasing culture of hyping, flipping, hoarding and profiteering whilst at the same time a (linked) increase in misinformation/conjecture and a louder neophyte minority.


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## HRC_64 (Mar 13, 2018)

Labour bought and sold some KS at fair prices in BST,
so his actions speaks louder than others


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## pete84 (Mar 13, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Pete,
> I asked a reasonable question. It actually was hardly even offensive or thread crapping. Unless facts are considered offensive. Indeed, why would one hate the markups on one knife yet do the same in worse degree to a different knife. Fujiyama never answered.



I agree with you Craig, it is a valid point you are making and yes the hypocrisy stinks something nasty. 

What I am trying to say is that calling it out (this thread is titled "Masamoto KS 240mm Gyuto KS3124 Available Soon", not "Hypocrites in BST/on KKF" or whatnot and therefore off-topic comments could be seen or thought of as "thread crapping") doesn't serve any purpose other than to inflame and exacerbate the negativity, instead of lessening it or bettering things.

The good folks here all see things for what they are, and the not-so-good folks couldn't care less. 

I respect your drive towards justice and fairness, its too bad more people don't/can't/won't adhere to the same standards as you and the other good folks on KKF who are the core of this wonderful community.


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## hmansion (Mar 13, 2018)

Barmoley said:


> I think you answered your own question and premise. The need to protect the public from themselves is a popular theme these days. Adults buying luxury items are in no danger of being hurt and should be responsible for their own decisions. Doing anything else is disrespectful, elitist and just plain impractical. Everyone on the forum is capable of doing their homework and know what they are doing, no need for hand holding. If I don't like the price of an item I don't buy it. We see it all the time on BST, some items sell out in minutes some need price adjustment to sell, there is no issue if the item is accurately represented...



You may be right about all this. My suggestions can be off-base when I let my disrespectful, elitist and just plain impractical side do the thinkin' :groucho:


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## labor of love (Mar 13, 2018)

Pete,
I see your position. I really do. But I was responding to post in this thread that is pertinent to the KS. My response is somewhat pertinent to the KS. I cant help it if others deviate from KS discussion &#128512;.


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## pete84 (Mar 13, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Pete,
> I see your position. I really do. But I was responding to post in this thread that is pertinent to the KS. My response is somewhat pertinent to the KS. I cant help it if others deviate from KS discussion &#128512;.



True 

Cheers Craig


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## Jville (Mar 13, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Pete,
> I asked a reasonable question. It actually was hardly even offensive or thread crapping. Unless facts are considered offensive. Indeed, why would one hate the markups on one knife yet do the same in worse degree to a different knife. Fujiyama never answered.



Major +1, im also curious


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## swarth (Mar 14, 2018)

bkultra said:


> Free and open market... People can sell items for whatever they wish. No one is forced to buy anything they deem overpriced, and value is subjective. I personally don't care for the recent trend of flipping, but it is what it is.



This. The only thing I would add...open (in the original thread; no PM, email, phone, etc) negotiations (offers, agreed price) helps a lot with mitigating flippers.


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## Interapid101 (Mar 19, 2018)

A certain midwestern vendor has KS 270s up for sale. At a predictably hefty markup.


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## panda (Mar 19, 2018)

when da fuq are the suji gonna come back in stock!!??


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## bkultra (Mar 19, 2018)

panda said:


> when da fuq are the suji gonna come back in stock!!??



Maybe I should follow recent trends and list mine on BST for $800.


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## chinacats (Mar 19, 2018)

panda said:


> when da fuq are the suji gonna come back in stock!!??



http://www.korin.com/HMA-CWASU-240?sc=27&category=8854033


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## Jovidah (Mar 19, 2018)

panda said:


> when da fuq are the suji gonna come back in stock!!??



JCK has the 240 in stock...tho not the 270.


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