# Sharpening angles for German vs. Japanese knives



## Edgy Guy (Mar 13, 2014)

I have a Konosuke 240mm Hitachi White #2 steel, Wa-Gyuto and a matching 120mm Petty.
I also have a set of Henckels Four Star knives which are for the rest of the family to use.

I'm thinking the Germans get a 20 degree angle and the Konosuke's a 12 degree.

If not what should I shoot for?


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## erikz (Mar 13, 2014)

Going from what Dave told me on his DVD you need to place the knife (no matter what knife) flat on the stone, lift it up until it just starts biting the stone. At that point you've it the angle the knife should be sharpened under. 

Don't forget to go about a degree off that angle to thin it first (if it needs thinning).

The Kono is probably asymmetric, like a 60/40, 70/30 or 80/20, so be sure to sharpen each side of the knife to its proper angle. You can do that by using the method described above.


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## Edgy Guy (Mar 13, 2014)

erikz said:


> Going from what Dave told me on his DVD you need to place the knife (no matter what knife) flat on the stone, lift it up until it just starts biting the stone. At that point you've it the angle the knife should be sharpened under.
> 
> Don't forget to go about a degree off that angle to thin it first (if it needs thinning).
> 
> The Kono is probably asymmetric, like a 60/40, 70/30 or 80/20, so be sure to sharpen each side of the knife to its proper angle. You can do that by using the method described above.



Thanks.
I heard about drawing on the edge with a sharpie and when all of the black is gone you have found the correct angle.
Good idea?
The Konos are a couple years old, get only light use but are way overdue for the stone.
Sorry.
I do use an end-grain board and touch up with one of those round ceramic sharpener sticks.


So it sounds like the goal is to copy the previous angle.
That's great for the newer Konosuke's but the Germans are 20 years old and the origional angles are long gone so I'd like to get a suggested starting angle.
I *think* the below graphic would be a good goal for the Germans  20 and 20 degrees.
If not what _are_ good numbers for putting a new edge on an old Henckels Four Star.


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## erikz (Mar 13, 2014)

The sharpy is definately a good idea, give's you feedback in a sense that you see you're actually sharpening what you want to sharpen. Helps you developing your sharpening skills.

Indeed for the kono; follow the geometry of the knife, don't change the angles. 20/20 sounds good for EU knives like Henckels, the graph makes sense to me. I don't know how thick the Henckels are, but in my understanding if the angle is completely gone it might be necessary to re-profile them a bit before you set the final bevel. If the knife's to fat above the edge they might be turning into wedge monsters.


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## Benuser (Mar 13, 2014)

I would indeed start by thinning at some 10 degree per side until you reach the very edge -- verify the scratch pattern -- and try a 15 degree or so. Stay with a medium coarse stone, it won't hold a polished edge. With my soft stainless I never go beyond the J800, except for a tenacious burr perhaps.


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## daveb (Mar 13, 2014)

My biggest hurdle in sharpening the Henckels 4 star (bought my first in 82) is the ******** full bolster. That has to be ground, and ground, and ground to be even with the angle at the edge of the blade. I used a xc/c diamond plate for this part the first time - easily as much fun as a root canal. Its not so bad to keep it even but still not on my fun meter.

My Hencks and Wusties have benefited from some thinning and tapering to the edge. The blade is a softer steel and more obtuse angle so that it won't chip when users whack into chicken bones, cut frozen food, chop a cup of nuts, etc. And it lends itself to being steeled back into shape. I keep mine for guests and for when I need to cut things I would not do with a Japanese knife.

Japanese Knife Imports (a sponsoring vendor here) has a series of tutorial videos on sharpening that are well worth watching. Chad Ward's "An Edge in the Kitchen" has some good information in book form and is prob available from your local library.


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## ThEoRy (Mar 13, 2014)

daveb said:


> My biggest hurdle in sharpening the Henckels 4 star (bought my first in 82) is the ******** full bolster. That has to be ground, and ground, and ground to be even with the angle at the edge of the blade. I used a xc/c diamond plate for this part the first time - easily as much fun as a root canal. Its not so bad to keep it even but still not on my fun meter.




That alone is reason enough to spend the $30 on the harbor freight 1x30 belt grinder.


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## HomeCook (Mar 15, 2014)

erikz said:


> Going from what Dave told me on his DVD you need to place the knife (no matter what knife) flat on the stone, lift it up until it just starts biting the stone. At that point you've it the angle the knife should be sharpened under.
> 
> Don't forget to go about a degree off that angle to thin it first (if it needs thinning).
> 
> The Kono is probably asymmetric, like a 60/40, 70/30 or 80/20, so be sure to sharpen each side of the knife to its proper angle. You can do that by using the method described above.



What DVD? Where can I get it?


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## erikz (Mar 15, 2014)

HomeCook said:


> What DVD? Where can I get it?


Send Dave Martell a PM. He's got his own vendor forum here (Japanese Knife Sharpening) to see if he has any left to sell. It really opened my eyes whem it comes to sharpening. Worth the money!


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## mhpr262 (Mar 16, 2014)

daveb said:


> My biggest hurdle in sharpening the Henckels 4 star (bought my first in 82) is the ******** full bolster. That has to be ground, and ground, and ground to be even with the angle at the edge of the blade. I used a xc/c diamond plate for this part the first time - easily as much fun as a root canal. Its not so bad to keep it even but still not on my fun meter.



I simply ground off the corner of the heel, bolster and everything, with an angle grinder. It may cost a you a few millimeters of blade length at the heel but who cares.


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## daveb (Mar 16, 2014)

ThEoRy said:


> That alone is reason enough to spend the $30 on the harbor freight 1x30 belt grinder.





mhpr262 said:


> I simply ground off the corner of the heel, bolster and everything, with an angle grinder. It may cost a you a few millimeters of blade length at the heel but who cares.



Ahh, power tools... I can screw things up really quickly and really thoroughly with sufficient power tools. Tim the Toolman has nothing on me. :cool2:


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## Benuser (Apr 3, 2014)

erikz said:


> Going from what Dave told me on his DVD you need to place the knife (no matter what knife) flat on the stone, lift it up until it just starts biting the stone. At that point you've it the angle the knife should be sharpened under.


The point where the edge starts biting in stone or strop is a few degrees above the sharpening angle. Verify with the sharpie trick.


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## erikz (Apr 3, 2014)

I gave him the secondary bevel 'flattening' tip just there didnt I...? :banghead:


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