# Need help conceptualizing



## BertMor (Aug 16, 2011)

Well, It looks like I am unretiring, and heading back into the kitchen. I have an audition soon, and I have two dishs to cook

The first one I am going to do is a Honied Jack Daniels Pork tenderloin with yams and haricot verte. Easy peasey

I want to do a Pan Seared Chilean Sea Bass (Please don't convict me, I don't want to use salmon {boring!} I need a fatty fish) with Caramel-Preserved Black Bean Sauce. I can serve it with baby bok choy seasoned with soy and sesame oil. 

But I can 't come up with an interesting starch! :scratchhead::helpsos::help4:

Anyone care to contribute?


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## El Pescador (Aug 16, 2011)

Poi?


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## tk59 (Aug 16, 2011)

El Pescador said:


> Poi?


 Uh... YUCK. How about taro?


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## BertMor (Aug 16, 2011)

Damn you Hawaiins! Question: why those two ? Where is the logic and tie-ins. The basic of the dish is Chinese...kinda


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## tk59 (Aug 16, 2011)

BertMor said:


> Damn you Hawaiins! Question: why those two ? Where is the logic and tie-ins. The basic of the dish is Chinese...kinda


 I'm not Hawaiian and neither is taro. It's a purple, starchy root ubiquitous in asian food (at least chinese and vietnamese). You can make just about anything out of it that you make with potatoes, etc. It's used in everything from savory cakes (not fluffy, dessert type things) to a sweet paste you would put in a dessert. As a matter of fact, I made "taro french toast" this morning.

Maybe you can make a cake with some little chuncks of something tasty dispersed in it. Steam it and then fry it or something.


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## BertMor (Aug 16, 2011)

I know what taro is, I've used it before. Poi is Hawaiian and thats what I was refering to. I'm still trying to see the connections. The fried cake does sound somewhat interesting.....


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## mhlee (Aug 16, 2011)

I would not serve Chilean Sea Bass because of high cost. Also, it's not considered to be environmentally correct.

If shipping is not an issue (which it doesn't seem to be because you initially chose Chilean Sea Bass), use Black Cod - it's sustainable, fatty, has a similar texture to Chilean Sea Bass and is probably less per pound. It's also a very prized fish in Asia. 

But, since you're in Florida, how about Pompano? I've cooked Pompano (smaller ones - less than 1 pound) and it's been great. It's got a rich flavor, delicate meat and it's local and a lot cheaper than Chilean Sea Bass. 

If you're going Chinese, how about a fried rice? The flavors in your dish seem to be salty, savory (black bean sauce), slightly bitter (bok choy), so you could use a little sweetness to the dish. Sweetness could come from a little Lap Cheong (Chinese sausage) sauteed in oil to render out some of the fat and sugar in the sausage into the rice. 

BTW, have you used XO sauce? It's been my recent go to sauce for steam and then oil searing fish because it's spicy, savory and pungent and a little sweet. But, you could also use this to flavor your fried rice. 

Or, how about using oyster sauce (or other sauce) to lend a sweet component to the vegetables and ditch the starch? Bok Choy is a very filling veg. 

+1 to the Taro idea. Steamed and fried taro cake with XO sauce is a staple of dim sum. I don't know if you'll like the texture if you've never had it since it's a little gummy, but it's definitely authentic.


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## BertMor (Aug 16, 2011)

mhlee said:


> I would not serve Chilean Sea Bass because of high cost. Also, it's not considered to be environmentally correct.
> 
> If shipping is not an issue (which it doesn't seem to be because you initially chose Chilean Sea Bass), use Black Cod - it's sustainable, fatty, has a similar texture to Chilean Sea Bass and is probably less per pound. It's also a very prized fish in Asia.
> 
> ...



Some interesting ideas....and I did ask not to be convicted on the CSB :surrendar: Black Cod or Pompano hmmmm, this a high end off-site caterer, I'm not sure how that will go over. But that is definitely a proper choice to consider for a restaurant

I think ya missed the part of the CARAMEL-Preserved Black Bean Sauce, it has lots of sweetness.

I am not familiar with XO sauce, what's it like?

The bok choy is going to be steamed then sauted with peanut oil-sesame oil combo and finished with chx stock, soy and sambal with a garnish of sesame seeds. I find oyster sauce a bit overwhelming most of the time. But I will consider it.

Taro cakes sound interesting but its like okra, lots of people don't like it much, and this is not the time to experiment.

I could do fried rice, it probably would go over well.....Whats a good substitute for Lap Cheong?

Good stuff people this is dcefinitley helping my thought processes


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## ThEoRy (Aug 16, 2011)

Chinese black rice maybe? I dunno I have to leave in a hurry I'll be back later maybe I can help more.


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## dreamsignals (Aug 16, 2011)

how about a crispy noodle cake? it would probably be nice to offset the potentially gooey texture of the bean sauce (potentially, not sure how you're gonna make it) and add some crunch


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## BertMor (Aug 16, 2011)

mhlee said:


> I would not serve Chilean Sea Bass because of high cost. Also, it's not considered to be environmentally correct.
> 
> If shipping is not an issue (which it doesn't seem to be because you initially chose Chilean Sea Bass), use Black Cod - it's sustainable, fatty, has a similar texture to Chilean Sea Bass and is probably less per pound. It's also a very prized fish in Asia.
> 
> ...


 


dreamsignals said:


> how about a crispy noodle cake? it would probably be nice to offset the potentially gooey texture of the bean sauce (potentially, not sure how you're gonna make it) and add some crunch


 
Not a bad thought. The sauce is basically a small amout of sugar caramalized with some secret aromatics (wink) added and finished with rice wine vinegar. Its actually a thin syrup in texture

Let me think on noodles..........Hmmmmmm a good idea


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## SpikeC (Aug 16, 2011)

+1 on the crispy noodles!


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## BertMor (Aug 16, 2011)

Anybody vote for fried scallion bread? Too greasy?


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## jmforge (Aug 16, 2011)

If you can get it, how about using wahoo? Local, but sometimes a bit scarce yet mucho tasty even before you start doing your magic on them. Also found in the Pacific, so easy to fit into your Asian theme.


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## dreamsignals (Aug 16, 2011)

i'd have to say greasy...the fish is already going to be buttery/fatty. something with a drier texture would be better...to capitalize on my own recommendation for crispy noddle cake, you can incorporate other ingredients into the noodle themselves when you fry them and they'll become part of the 'cake', like scallions or the sausage suggested above (that you could crisp up in advance).


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## BertMor (Aug 16, 2011)

dreamsignals said:


> i'd have to say greasy...the fish is already going to be buttery/fatty. something with a drier texture would be better...to capitalize on my own recommendation for crispy noddle cake, you can incorporate other ingredients into the noodle themselves when you fry them and they'll become part of the 'cake', like scallions or the sausage suggested above (that you could crisp up in advance).


 
I really like this idea, and I LOVE crispy noodles, but don't you think that this is also greasy/oily? If only lentils or couscous with mint and preserved lemon went with this....damn idea won't get out of my head, gonna have to save it for another dish


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## dreamsignals (Aug 16, 2011)

i see...well, to keep the ideas going: the noodles will tend to absorb less fat/oil than the bread and will also drain better onto a towel. if you crisp up the sausage and pat them, shouldn't be a problem. it'd be more like bacon bits, just more 'exotic'. you could bump up the acidity through some citrus to cut through the oil/fat. a little juice in the sauce, maybe zesting some as well...


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## steeley (Aug 16, 2011)

Could go for a fried noodle cake or something lighter like this




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## mhlee (Aug 16, 2011)

BertMor said:


> Some interesting ideas....and I did ask not to be convicted on the CSB :surrendar: Black Cod or Pompano hmmmm, this a high end off-site caterer, I'm not sure how that will go over. But that is definitely a proper choice to consider for a restaurant
> 
> I think ya missed the part of the CARAMEL-Preserved Black Bean Sauce, it has lots of sweetness.
> 
> ...


 
I saw the caramel part, but didn't want to assume how sweet it would be, especially because preserved black bean sauce can be quite overpowering. 

XO sauce is made from a combination consisting usually of dried scallops, chili peppers, oil, garlic and possibly dried shrimp, or dried fish. It's extremely savory with a little spice. It can be used to sauce many dishes. 

I haven't substituted Lap Cheong but would imagine it could be replaced with any similar semi-dried, slightly sweet asian sausage; I recall eating a Filipino sausage that had a similar flavor. You could also substitute Chinese bbq pork (Char Siu), or even ham. A Chinese ham, Jinhua ham, is cured in a similar manner to a southern country ham, except for the smoking.

I love fried scallion bread, but it's something you eat with your hands. It seems a little out of place from the fish and vegetables you're making. However, tt doesn't have to be greasy. Just don't pan fry it in a bunch of oil like they do in Taiwan.


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## cnochef (Aug 16, 2011)

BertMor said:


> Anybody vote for fried scallion bread? Too greasy?



That's exactly what I was going to suggest! Only around these parts we call them Sichuan green onion cakes, as long as we're talking about the same thing. They don't have to be greasy either, just brush them with oil rather before frying.


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## BertMor (Aug 16, 2011)

cnochef said:


> That's exactly what I was going to suggest! Only around these parts we call them Sichuan green onion cakes, as long as we're talking about the same thing. They don't have to be greasy either, just brush them with oil rather before frying.


 
They don't really get crispy and yummy unless you use a fair amount of oil, almost pan frying. It will get tough if you just brush it, no?

Noodles, maybe soba?


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## cnochef (Aug 16, 2011)

BertMor said:


> They don't really get crispy and yummy unless you use a fair amount of oil, almost pan frying. It will get tough if you just brush it, no?



I've never had that problem at all. I brush oil on them, cook over medium heat on a cast iron griddle, covered with a pot lid for most of the cooking time so that they get steamed inside before they get dry.


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## sachem allison (Aug 16, 2011)

green tea soba noodles


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## goodchef1 (Aug 17, 2011)

keep in mind, these people who will be judging your dish will be looking for a number of criteria. Not a good time to experiment, as a few of those criteria will surely be execution of product, and skill level of your dish. Better to do simple done right, then a poorly executed dish that tries too hard to impress.


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## BertMor (Aug 17, 2011)

goodchef1 said:


> keep in mind, these people who will be judging your dish will be looking for a number of criteria. Not a good time to experiment, as a few of those criteria will surely be execution of product, and skill level of your dish. Better to do simple done right, then a poorly executed dish that tries too hard to impress.


 
Exactly my thinking. Besides, i am not going to be hired to create. That's the boss's job.....


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## JohnnyChance (Aug 17, 2011)

What about being able to recreate the dish on a larger catering size scale? Is that a factor in how these will be evaluated?

If one of them is a much bigger pita than the other (especially when you have to make 100, or 300, all at once) maybe go with with slightly less impressive but easier to crank out starch (I would think the fried rice would be a winner in that department). Also, I am not saying the noodle cake or taro is impossible to pull off for a catering event, just something else to consider.


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## dreamsignals (Aug 17, 2011)

BertMor said:


> Exactly my thinking. Besides, i am not going to be hired to create. That's the boss's job.....



i'm not a pro cook and have never interviewed for a kitchen job, but i get this feeling that if you're doing 2 dishes one could be to reproduce something from their menu? what is the common knowledge on that?


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## BertMor (Aug 18, 2011)

JohnnyChance said:


> What about being able to recreate the dish on a larger catering size scale? Is that a factor in how these will be evaluated?
> 
> If one of them is a much bigger pita than the other (especially when you have to make 100, or 300, all at once) maybe go with with slightly less impressive but easier to crank out starch (I would think the fried rice would be a winner in that department). Also, I am not saying the noodle cake or taro is impossible to pull off for a catering event, just something else to consider.


 
Good question. I don't know. I am approaching it that way though. If its too simple, at least my technique and flavor will be spot on...


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## jmforge (Aug 18, 2011)

I am not a chef or even a decent home cook, but in the context of a big catering gig, I would be worried about things like fried cakes. How are they going to hold up on the steam table, chafing dish or under the little culinary tanning lamp?


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## BertMor (Aug 18, 2011)

******* said:


> I am not a chef or even a decent home cook, but in the context of a big catering gig, I would be worried about things like fried cakes. How are they going to hold up on the steam table, chafing dish or under the little culinary tanning lamp?


 
On wire racks over sheetpans held in hot boxes that are heated with sterno


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## jmforge (Aug 18, 2011)

Learn something new every day on here. I need to come up with a home version of that for post fishing trip family fish fry nights.


BertMor said:


> On wire racks over sheetpans held in hot boxes that are heated with sterno


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## BertMor (Aug 19, 2011)

******* said:


> Learn something new every day on here. I need to come up with a home version of that for post fishing trip family fish fry nights.


 
Why? Can't you just cook them to order?..You can use a low oven with paper towel lined trays, or go out and get a rack and half pan. Family fish fry must be a lot of people!


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## jmforge (Aug 19, 2011)

It can be as many as 12-13 people. It usually involves a couple of different recipes, like panko breaded and beer battered and a couple of species of fish. Lots of small pieces in a SMALL deep fryer. We used to do it in an electric wok back in the day , but that was when it was only 5 people. The rack and the half pan sounds like a plan. Better than the paper towels,I would think.


BertMor said:


> Why? Can't you just cook them to order?..You can use a low oven with paper towel lined trays, or go out and get a rack and half pan. Family fish fry must be a lot of people!


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## Eamon Burke (Aug 20, 2011)

Take Alton Brown's solution: The wire rack, turned upside down(so the flat part touches the paper) laid on a stack of newsprint. The oil will run down, and immediately be absorbed by the contacting paper, and kept off your food(instead of holding it against the food like plain paper, or beading up like a raised rack.


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## Chef Niloc (Aug 20, 2011)

Macadamia nut sticky rice cake?
Don't always need a starch , I don't serve starch with most of my fish.
I do my sea bass" lime and coconut" crusted with purple Peruvian potato Salad and red chili vinaigrette 
If you such google "lime and coconut sea bass " my recipe and pic's should be on top of the search list ?


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## BertMor (Aug 22, 2011)

Chef Niloc said:


> Macadamia nut sticky rice cake?
> Don't always need a starch , I don't serve starch with most of my fish.
> I do my sea bass" lime and coconut" crusted with purple Peruvian potato Salad and red chili vinaigrette
> If you such google "lime and coconut sea bass " my recipe and pic's should be on top of the search list ?


 
That sounds good, but I have decided to do it with curried red lentils. Tested it last night and it works real well with the Carame-Preserved black bean sauce. Pungent curry and Sweet and Sour Caramel works great sort of yin and yang

Colin I am storing that macadamia nut sticky rice cake for the future!


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## BertMor (Aug 22, 2011)

Well it was as I feared.....none of the ingredients that I requested was available....good thing I brought the lentils with me. But d*mn if I forgot the preserved black beans. Oh well, I found some black soy and used that instead. Napa substituted for baby bok choy, he ran out and bought me some pork tenderloin and haricots.....

For someone not accustomed or really wanted this bad, they would have paniced (another guy there was a freaking tornado, because of him hogging the space and not working neat, I picked up something hot and got a blister.) Welcome back to the kitchen Bert!~

Pork came out absolutely perfect, he felt that the lentils were too salty, which is unusual because I am known for my not using alot of salt on things.

And because I stupidly left my phone in the car, no plate pics available. Guess I really didn't cook anything and just woke up with this stupid blister, huh?

So I will hear back about days scheduled and talk $$$. Now how do I convince him I only want 30-40 hrs a week?


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## Jag (Aug 29, 2011)

you could try a kamut salad


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