# Sakai Yusuke 210 Wa-Gyuto Review



## Mucho Bocho (Apr 4, 2012)

I just picked up one of those Ultra-Lasers from Keiichi AKA Bluewayjpan. WOW is this a new knife experience. I got the extra-thin blade 1.3mm and they we're kidding. Feels like 0.0013 to me--ha. I've posted a few shots of the unveiling and a comparison with my Kono HD Kiri & HD Suji. Also attached is a shot of the whole empire :thumbsup:

I've literally only had it 20 minutes but initial impressions are: large handle, F&F are better than my Kono's, OOTB is hard to gauge (how sharp is a razor blade?), the ebay item description said the knife weighs 95g. Maybe if it was sitting around drinking beer all day, it actually weighs 88g. the pic's don't show it well but it had an absolute flat back coming up maybe four inches to that Masamoto KS tip profile. I've only cut up some unripe cantaloup but it made me grin. I was actually able to cut bayonets then shave them in the air. Not sure what you guys want to know about this knife but here are some shots.


----------



## stereo.pete (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks for taking the plunge on one of these super thin blades. Keep us updated with how your feelings are towards the knife as you get to use it more. Also, I love your collection, thanks for sharing.


----------



## DeepCSweede (Apr 4, 2012)

Congrats, you need to start a my knives thread. Looks like you are building an impressive collection.


----------



## Deckhand (Apr 4, 2012)

Congratulations! I have the standard on in 270mm and love it. I imagine your thinner version will be an amazing good time. As previously stated, I hope to hear more impressions as time goes by.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Apr 4, 2012)

So I just bashed through a pound of carrots. the blade is so thin that it feels like a single bevel. Keiichi said that although it was a 15/15 degree bevel and that it was slightly asymmetrical. I've not looped it yet but to my naked eye I can't tell. 

I have ex-large hands and am loving the larger handle. Even though the blade is impossibly thin, it is not as wimpy as you would imagine. The ferrule also has some natural blond bleeding that seems to be the same color of the handle. The packaging alone made me feel like this was a custom knife made for me.


----------



## tk59 (Apr 4, 2012)

So you're saying I need one of these? 'Cause that's what I'm feeling...


----------



## Mike Davis (Apr 4, 2012)

I have a standard 240 Yusuke, and i really enjoy cutting with it. I almost pulled the trigger on a thin one, but am saving for a gengetsu lol.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Apr 4, 2012)

F&F are simply perfect. It actually embarrasses my Kono's. Even the handle was delicately wrapped. thats a new one for me. 

Every time I pull it off the wall, I can't stop from audibly saying WOW. The way it slid through a carrot, thin or thick slices is very pleasing. Lots of knuckle clearance, definitely true gyuto profile. 

I think what makes this knife unusual is that because its so thin and light very little pressure in the hand is required to put it in motion. Pinching the blade is not needed, more like merely cupping the handle is all that is required. Even through carrots. It would probably slice soft fruit on its own by just laying the knife next to the vegetable. :biggrin:


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Apr 4, 2012)

Mike, Those finishes on your knives are absolutely Museum quality. Can't imagine the learning curve on that technique.


----------



## El Pescador (Apr 4, 2012)

Good introduction to the knife...keep us posted good and bad.


----------



## mpukas (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks for sharing the thin knife. I've got 3 Yusuke's, and honestly they are so thin already I've wondered how much thinner could the thin versions be, and how useful could they be, since they might be too whippy? I've considered a 210 gyuto as a utility knife - I've got a 210 suji/petty and it's a very short height at the heel, too short for board work really. The 210 gyuto seems like it's not too tall to be used in hand. Gotta say again, love Yusuke!


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Apr 4, 2012)

Mpukas, Understood about the thin factor of knives. It so thin, almost as if it was disposable, if that makes sense. There is plenty of Knuckle clearance and I have huge hands inherited from my Portuguese grandfather. He never had a knife like this though


----------



## NO ChoP! (Apr 4, 2012)

Recently got rid of my Yukes, and I must admit, out o the ten knives I've recently sold, the Yukes are the most missed. Doesn't help I sold them to a cook at my work, and I see them everyday.

Couldn't agree more on the f&f....top notch!


----------



## NO ChoP! (Apr 4, 2012)

As far as the thinness, although the steel could hold a steeper angle, I think the super thinness almost forces you to stay at 15 degrees, so maybe super thin doesn't necessarily translate to super sharp...just my theory, though.


----------



## Sarge (Apr 4, 2012)

Sharpness is relative. I think the thinness provides extra cutting performance so the perceived sharpness is greater. Yanagiba and other single bevel knives don't have all that steep of angles but the thinness at the edge makes it act sharper than the angle would suggest. You could also just sharpen it one sided being as thin as it is I doubt you'd even notice any potential steering.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 4, 2012)

The yusukes profile is flatter than konosuke? Interesting...Do you have any idea what steel they use for their stainless line?


----------



## stevenStefano (Apr 4, 2012)

I am glad you took the plunge and bought one. I have a Sakai Yusuke and a Konosuke and to be honest I think the Yusuke is a bit better . They are fairly different knives, but in terms of the grind and fit and finish my Yusuke is definitely superior, food release seems a lot better for example. The Sakai Yusukes are sort of an unheralded bargain


----------



## mpukas (Apr 4, 2012)

labor of love said:


> The yusukes profile is flatter than konosuke? Interesting...Do you have any idea what steel they use for their stainless line?



Yusuke uses a couple of different steels, carbon and SS. Their carbon in white #2, hardened to 61-62. Edge gets wicked sharp, very easily, but edge retention is fair. My experience w/ their white #2 knives seems to be the same w/ other folks experiences w/ white #2. The SS they use is a Swedsh steel, I think, and hardened to 58-59. I think they may also use a cheaper, softer carbon steel for their less expensive knives.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks. I'm curious which Swedish steel they use though.


----------



## NO ChoP! (Apr 4, 2012)

I've read its AEB-L, or its equivalent, but not sure. I agree that Yukes f&f and grind beats Kono, but I like the Kono HD steel the best...maybe Yuke should do a semi-stainless...


----------



## stevenStefano (Apr 5, 2012)

If Sakai Yusuke did a harder stainless knife Id be very interested in it. I have a white #2 knife but I'm sorta moving towards just stainless and semi-stainless


----------



## labor of love (Apr 6, 2012)

one of my only gripes with my kono is that everything seems to stick to it. which i blame on the grind i guess. im curious if yusukes are any better in that regard.


----------



## mpukas (Apr 6, 2012)

My Yusuke's have a mild convex if not flat grind, but there is decent convexing above the primary bevel. I have minor problems with stickage. Mostly with hard things like acorn squash and sweet potatoes. they are so thin there's not a lot of convex like of thicker knives.


----------



## tk59 (Apr 6, 2012)

Yeah, it's the same for all of the lasers. The best laser types I've tried have been a Rottman custom and a KonHD that I converted to 99:1.


----------



## shankster (Apr 6, 2012)

"and a KonHD that I converted to 99:1. "

Explain please.


----------



## Candlejack (Apr 6, 2012)

shankster said:


> "and a KonHD that I converted to 99:1. "
> 
> Explain please.



Sharpened 99/1

Instead of a traditional 50/50

Ie. almost a single-bevel


Is my assumption


----------



## mhlee (Apr 6, 2012)

TK's Konosuke HD is a nice knife. Although I don't have much experience with lasers, I can say from using TK's HD that it cuts really well, with no noticeable steering even with the 99:1 edge; it's a very agile knife even thought it's a little unwieldy for me. 

99:1 = the right side of his knife (looking from the heel toward the tip of the spine) has a large bevel. The left side has essentially no bevel (or what little remains from the previous edge) from what I recall.


----------



## shankster (Apr 6, 2012)

Apologies,not trying to hijack this thread but do you mean to sharpen on a higher angle on one side(right side for me)and less on the other,or more strokes on one one side? Again sorry for the dumb question..


----------



## Deckhand (Apr 6, 2012)

Could be way off, but sounds like a single bevel knife with a microbevel on the other side to stabilize it.


----------



## tk59 (Apr 6, 2012)

mhlee said:


> TK's Konosuke HD is a nice knife. Although I don't have much experience with lasers, I can say from using TK's HD that it cuts really well, with no noticeable steering even with the 99:1 edge; it's a very agile knife even thought it's a little unwieldy for me.
> 
> 99:1 = the right side of his knife (looking from the heel toward the tip of the spine) has a large bevel. The left side has essentially no bevel (or what little remains from the previous edge) from what I recall.


Just for the record, that's the one I got from macmiddlebrooks that I refinished and converted to a 99:1 ish edge but it hasn't been used long enough to get the kind of food separation I was talking about. I don't know of Bao is around lately but he does the same thing with his TKC. I've also done it to an A-type, as has Jon. Jon also has an amazing Suisin Inox honyaki that he ground the same way.

@Deckhand: Yes.


----------



## mhlee (Apr 6, 2012)

So as you sharpen it over time, and keep convexing the right side bevel and allow the bevel to get larger and higher up the right hand side face of the knife, the food separation has become better?


----------



## shankster (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks for the replies.Another noob question.Would this type of edge be practical for a busy production kitchen on crappy poly boards or should I just stick with the 50/50 edge?My Kono cuts like a dream, so no complaints,just curious..


----------



## racineboxer (Apr 7, 2012)

I've had a 240 SS Yusuke for a few months and I'm a big fan of it. Fit and finish is flawless and the knife is super thin (even though mines not the super thin the original poster started this tread about). Glad to hear it getting some favorable reviews to the Kono because it came down to the Yusuke or the Kono HD and I went for the true stainless (I wasn't happy with the semi-stainless of my carbonext, my personal preference is to true stainless for convenience). I took the yusuke over to Salty's and it did pretty good on the sticky potato test. It takes a while to get use to a knife this thin, I'm not sure I could imagine going with an even thinner model. I bought a 210 Yoshihiro because I wanted something little thicker and has a studier more robust feel to it. But these are my 2 favorite knives out of the 6-7 I've bought and can compare them to.


----------



## tk59 (Apr 7, 2012)

shankster said:


> Thanks for the replies.Another noob question.Would this type of edge be practical for a busy production kitchen on crappy poly boards or should I just stick with the 50/50 edge?My Kono cuts like a dream, so no complaints,just curious..


If you're happy with your edge performance, maybe stick with that but as far as practicality, it really depends on the user(s). If you're using the knife for its intended purpose, you shouldn't have any problems.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 7, 2012)

yeah...after looking at that yusuke every day since this thread started i decided to pull the trigger on one as well. i just love the handle size. a 210 petty though. with an ebony handle. it takes around a month to make. cant wait!


----------



## mpukas (Apr 7, 2012)

shankster said:


> Thanks for the replies.Another noob question.Would this type of edge be practical for a busy production kitchen on crappy poly boards or should I just stick with the 50/50 edge?My Kono cuts like a dream, so no complaints,just curious..



Check out Fred's Cutlery Forum on Foodie Forums - there's a thread under the sharpening section about sharpening one side of a gyuto. KC is a big advocate of this. One of the main reasons he does this is to save time when sharpening since he only sharpens one side instead of two. 

Another aspect of this type of 100/0 edge is when slicing an item w/ the back (left) side of the blade against the main ody of the item, the edge is perfectly in line w/ the cutting plane. The knife will have to be rotated slightly to the right to get the back side of the knife perfectly vertical, but thte thought is that this will give better, thinner, more even slices. 

IMHO, sure you can use an edge like this in a commercial kitchen on poly boards, but you'll have to adjust you're technique to avoid damaging the fragile edge. Again IMHO, if your'e in a western kitchen making western food, there's no need for an edge like this. A 50/50 edge is plenty sharp and will have better durability for western kitchen food & tasks.


----------



## mpukas (Apr 7, 2012)

Regarding steering, here's my take on it at the moment - it's been said of yanagiba and other asymetrically sharpened knives, by expereinced folks here and other places and from my own expereinces w/ 99/1 edges, to use a loose grip and let the knife do the work. With a yanagi the technique is ALWAYS a slicing motion. A slicing motion is more efficient at cutting than a push/chopping motion. Often when using a gyuto less slicing motion is used and more downward pushing/chopping force is used. When downward force is aplied to an asymetrical blade, by it's geometrical nature, it will steer. When used in a slicing motion and allowed to create it's own path through the item being cut, it will follow the direction given to it. 

Am I on track with this thought? Cheers! mpp


----------



## tk59 (Apr 7, 2012)

mpukas said:


> ...you'll have to adjust you're technique to avoid damaging the fragile edge...


I think a couple of distinctions need to be made here.
1. You can still sharpen at whatever angle you choose. KC sharpens at very low angles. (Utterly ridiculous, if you ask me.) You can sharpen 50:50 at 7 deg per side and you will have to alter your technique there as well.
2. The part that ends up more fragile is the area behind the edge which will end up thinner than it would in a 50:50 blade. How fragile? That depends on your bevel angles and the thickness of your knife to begin with. If you choose angles such that the area behind your edge is thinner, you will get deformation further behind the edge for the same amount of force applied. I'm pretty sure I can make any cut short of chopping bones, frozen items and prying with my 99:1 blades.

mpukas makes some good points but the generalization is taken way too far.


----------



## tk59 (Apr 7, 2012)

mpukas said:


> ...Am I on track with this thought?...


The effect of slicing vs chopping is definitely true. I'd say it's more because the asymmetry is greater where the knife is thickest and the effect is greater the deeper it is in the object. Since the tip is thinner and thus less asymmetric and since the tip is finishing the cut at it's deepest point in the object, you will get less steering with a slicing cut.


----------



## shankster (Apr 7, 2012)

Excellent advice tk and mpukas(as always),much appreciated..
I think I'll stick to the 50/50 edge for now and maybe try the 99/1 on my old beat up Moritaka down the road.

cheers!
PK


----------



## skewed (Apr 7, 2012)

shankster said:


> Excellent advice tk and mpukas(as always),much appreciated..
> I think I'll stick to the 50/50 edge for now and maybe try the 99/1 on my old beat up Moritaka down the road.
> 
> cheers!
> PK



I have been doing a gradual gravitation to asymmetry by using a fairly low angle on the right side and only deburring on the left at a higher angle. I started doing this with my folders years ago out of ignorance. I have to switch sides now and then to even out the bevel a little.

Slainte,
rj


----------



## Benuser (Apr 9, 2012)

I did the same to a few western knives with 50/50 edges, though the blades were never symmetric - mostly left convex and right more or less flat. The progressive process has the advantage you may easily correct with a few strokes whenever steering/wedging issues araise. Till than you have greatly simplified your sharpening job: sharpening the right side, deburring the left one.
These asymmetric edges cause less friction and therefore the angle can be considerably reduced.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Apr 13, 2012)

So I took the 210 thin Yusuke to the stones last night. OH MY GOD. The right side is 15 degree (face) and the left (back) is 11 degree.

Just a couple of passes with an Ohair Tomae then Ozuku Asagi then non-loaded leather strop on the edge pro. This knife is so sharp now the blade is sticky. As in, if you try to three finger feel how sharp it is, any contact with the edge will cut into your thumb print and "stick to your skin." I think its a combination of steel, thinness of blade and an asymmetrical sharpening. New experience for me.

I usually sharpen my knife 50/50 but i'm really impressed with the sharpness of this blade. Just when I didn't think I could get my knives any sharper! Poof a "sticky blade" shows up.


----------



## obtuse (Apr 13, 2012)

Itll probably stick to your cutting board too.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 13, 2012)

im sorry if im getting too off topic here but after a few messages with blueway i realized the grind has a convex face(right side) and flat back(left side). would this present a problem for leftys? steering issues? they also are prepared to make a left handed version for extra $$$. ive handled 3 kono lasers and a suisin inox and never noticed anything in the grind that effected my cutting just curious if this knife would be any different.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Apr 13, 2012)

labor of love. I have the special thin 210 gyuto and the bevel is only about the width of a hair. You could change the orientation of the blade in minutes. I have two kono HD (210 Suji and 240 Kiritsuke). Yuke cuts equally as well. But my Yuke ony weighs 88grams. Even the 210 Suij weighs 97grams. Plus, sharening white steel is an absolute dream.


----------



## Vertigo (Apr 13, 2012)

dennismpintoii said:


> labor of love. I have the special thin 210 gyuto and the bevel is only about the width of a hair. You could change the orientation of the blade in minutes. I have two kono HD (210 Suji and 240 Kiritsuke). Yuke cuts equally as well. But my Yuke ony weighs 88grams. Even the 210 Suij weighs 97grams. Plus, sharening white steel is an absolute dream.


He's asking about the actual grind of the knife--its asymmetric geometry--not just the asymmetry of the edge bevel.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Apr 13, 2012)

The grind is pretty flat. I mean the spine on the knife at the handle is 1.3mm :bigeek:


----------



## stevenStefano (Apr 13, 2012)

labor of love said:


> im sorry if im getting too off topic here but after a few messages with blueway i realized the grind has a convex face(right side) and flat back(left side). would this present a problem for leftys? steering issues? they also are prepared to make a left handed version for extra $$$. ive handled 3 kono lasers and a suisin inox and never noticed anything in the grind that effected my cutting just curious if this knife would be any different.



I have a Sakai Yusuke 210 petty and the grind is pretty symmetric, much more so than my Konosuke, and I am a lefty. I know comparing a 270 gyuto to a 210 petty is fairly meaningless but I really like how the Yusuke cuts anyway, food release is pretty good. If you really don't like how it cuts, give it a 90/10 left edge, and release should be a bit better. So basically I wouldn't worry about it


----------



## mpukas (Apr 13, 2012)

labor of love said:


> im sorry if im getting too off topic here but after a few messages with blueway i realized the grind has a convex face(right side) and flat back(left side). would this present a problem for leftys? steering issues? they also are prepared to make a left handed version for extra $$$. ive handled 3 kono lasers and a suisin inox and never noticed anything in the grind that effected my cutting just curious if this knife would be any different.



These knives are so thin, that the convexing is not dramatic. It is noticeable on my own knives that the front and backsides are different, but minimally - it's actually more noticeable on my 300 suji (which is even thinnner) than my 270 gyuto. I first started shaprening my suji 99/1, and did have steering issues when cutting very tall things like pineapple from top to botttom. But i've since gone 50/50 and only have minor steering if I'm not on it. I think you'd be ok w/ a standard version, but depending on how much the upcharge is, it may be worth considering - if for no other reason, you'll be getting a custom ground knife and possibly more attention paid to it. 

The bevels they put on the knives are very, very thin (high angle), as Dennis mentioned. Still very sharp OOTB. I've put really low angles on mine at 50/50.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 13, 2012)

stevenStefano said:


> I have a Sakai Yusuke 210 petty and the grind is pretty symmetric, much more so than my Konosuke, and I am a lefty. I know comparing a 270 gyuto to a 210 petty is fairly meaningless but I really like how the Yusuke cuts anyway, food release is pretty good. If you really don't like how it cuts, give it a 90/10 left edge, and release should be a bit better. So basically I wouldn't worry about it


Thanks Steven. A 210 Petty is what I ordered actually. But I inquired with blueway about their 270 swed gyuto. The gyuto is actually the one he said had the right side convex/left side flat grind.


----------



## slowtyper (Apr 15, 2012)

labor of love said:


> yeah...after looking at that yusuke every day since this thread started i decided to pull the trigger on one as well. i just love the handle size. a 210 petty though. with an ebony handle. it takes around a month to make. cant wait!


How much did that cost? And where do you order this?


----------



## labor of love (Apr 15, 2012)

Blueway Japan store on eBay just request a knife with an ebony handle. It's $50 extra


----------



## stevenStefano (Apr 15, 2012)

Something to add is that Keiichi got me a saya for my 210 petty for basically nothing. It wasn't designed for my knife but he got back to me in a couple of days after I asked him, he is great to deal with


----------



## Deckhand (Apr 15, 2012)

I asked Keiichi about a 270mm my prefered length. Keiichi said 270mm in thin version available for $247. Just thought I would let people know.


----------



## mainaman (Apr 15, 2012)

stevenStefano said:


> If Sakai Yusuke did a harder stainless knife Id be very interested in it. I have a white #2 knife but I'm sorta moving towards just stainless and semi-stainless


you can always ask Keichi to talk to the makers of the knife to harden it a bit more for you.


----------



## obtuse (Apr 15, 2012)

Just get a gesshin ginga


----------



## MichaelD (Apr 16, 2012)

mainaman said:


> you can always ask Keichi to talk to the makers of the knife to harden it a bit more for you.




It cost 15 USD extra to harden stainless version to 61 HRC.


----------



## mainaman (Apr 16, 2012)

MichaelD said:


> It cost 15 USD extra to harden stainless version to 61 HRC.


that is great to know.


----------



## Seb (Apr 17, 2012)

Great to hear that Yusuke are now accepting custom orders to specially harden blades now. I enquired about this 1-2 years ago but was told the answer would probably be 'no'. Which is what led me to order an Ashi-Hamono Ginga stainless 240 Wa instead, with custom hardening to 61HRC: freaking awesome knife and steel in its own right, but my Yusuke (240 White#2 Wa) wins hands down in every department.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 17, 2012)

Seb said:


> Great to hear that Yusuke are now accepting custom orders to specially harden blades now. I enquired about this 1-2 years ago but was told the answer would probably be 'no'. Which is what led me to order an Ashi-Hamono Ginga stainless 240 Wa instead, with custom hardening to 61HRC: freaking awesome knife and steel in its own right, but my Yusuke (240 White#2 Wa) wins hands down in every department.


What are the differences seb? Besides of course the steels used.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 30, 2012)

After talking to Keiichi, he mentioned carrying some swedish stainless yusukes soon with thicker spines. The spines are going to be around 2.8mm for 240mm wa gyutos. Im looking forward to them. Im enjoying my suisin inox gyuto and I certainly wouldnt mind something of a similar steel but with a thinker spine. Ive kind of been looking around for a non laser swedish steel gyuto for a while and theres really not much out there besides misono ux10(which im not paying $300 for!).Just wanted to spread the word.


----------



## BDD (Jul 9, 2012)

Is there any other place (besides the place the OP mentioned) we can order these knives from? Are they sold in Canada?


----------



## BDD (Jul 30, 2012)

Hey MB,

Just a few knives huh.  Are you a chef by trade? 

Photography tip: Use "single-point AF" (if your camera has it...if DSLR it should) and put the AF "dot" on the handle of a knife or the spine of one of the knives.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Jul 30, 2012)

BDD, Thanks. I used to live in the kitchen but those days are gone. Love the job, could not get used to the lifestyle. I can still smell the damp cold humid kitchen the morning after hosing it down with lots of kitchen detergents the night before. I'm sure ya'll know that smell. Lovely.

I still push the craft pretty hard though. Lately been experimenting with my Vacuum Tumbler, that sits next to my vacuum chamber next to my polyscience Sous Vide pro next to my curing chamber. I cracked their secretive patented GrowVac formula. Salt, dextrose and Citrix Acid (I use fresh fruit preserver). The tumbler does improve flavor and texture. Awesome for freshening up all sorts of proteins. Can't wait for Mivolds Modernist Cuisine for the Home.

Ironically now i've fallen back in love with a ripe perfectly sliced avocado, drenched in fresh lime and salt. Sometime the best dished don't require a electrical cord or flame. Yusuke is what i grab for this chore.


----------



## BDD (Jul 30, 2012)

Just Googled "vacuum tumbler". Interesting idea. Are they all HUGE? The one's I saw look to be all for restaurant/supermarket use.  Are there any designed for home use?


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Jul 30, 2012)

$300. Sits on the counter, very quiet to run. Extremely well designed unit, built as well as my Blendtec

http://marinadeexpress.com/


----------



## Deckhand (Jul 30, 2012)

Mucho Bocho said:


> BDD, Thanks. I used to live in the kitchen but those days are gone. Love the job, could not get used to the lifestyle. I can still smell the damp cold humid kitchen the morning after hosing it down with lots of kitchen detergents the night before. I'm sure ya'll know that smell. Lovely.
> 
> I still push the craft pretty hard though. Lately been experimenting with my Vacuum Tumbler, that sits next to my vacuum chamber next to my polyscience Sous Vide pro next to my curing chamber. I cracked their secretive patented GrowVac formula. Salt, dextrose and Citrix Acid (I use fresh fruit preserver). The tumbler does improve flavor and texture. Awesome for freshening up all sorts of proteins. Can't wait for Mivolds Modernist Cuisine for the Home.
> 
> Ironically now i've fallen back in love with a ripe perfectly sliced avocado, drenched in fresh lime and salt. Sometime the best dished don't require a electrical cord or flame. Yusuke is what i grab for this chore.



jealous


----------



## BDD (Jul 30, 2012)

Mucho Bocho said:


> $300. Sits on the counter, very quiet to run. Extremely well designed unit, built as well as my Blendtec
> 
> http://marinadeexpress.com/



Thanks pal. Just might order one later.  

Do they make a HUGE noticeable difference over marinating meats and not tumbling (in a vacuum tumbler)?


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Jul 30, 2012)

Its not like a traditional marinade (no oil or acids used). we'll citric acid but its a very small amount. So its not like WOW, look marinade all they way through the bone kind of thing. Plus they have a flavor free marinade, that is no spices. the end result is very subtle. The meat doesn't change color like it would in an acid marinade. Be great to know someone else that has the device. I've had mine for less than a year and I would not even think about eating any chix, pork or beef without purifying it in them marinade express now. 

Like I said I'm sure I figured out their proprietary GroVac mix. Dextrose, citrix acid and salt. My suggestion is not to go hog-wild buying their marinades. Really not necessary and once you get the hand of the machine, not necessary.

Have you messed with adding phosphates to meat brining? Ever use AmexPhos or FAB flavor enhancers. Very useful meat intervention enhancers.


----------



## BDD (Jul 30, 2012)

Phosphates into brining? Nope. To be honest I've never brined my meats before hand. Plan to though for sure. Maybe try Williams-Somoma brine first. Then find brine recipes. 

Never thought of adding "enhancers". Actually I've never even heard of "enhancers" till you mentioned it.  You should write a book on "Enhancing Cooking at Home". 

As for buying their marinades...probably not. Might try them once. I've rarely found some one else's mix to my liking. Have come across some good BBQ rubs though by Dizzy Pig. And a Louisana hot sauce I sampled at a "Hot & Spicy Festival". Shame i no longer have the name. Was hot and had a tang to it. Why I loved it. This was back in 2006. 

Perhaps we should continue the food talk PM.  This is a knife forum.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Jul 30, 2012)

Kidd your blowing it! LOL Just remember all fresh foods are dehydrated, unless you killed the animal or pulled the vegetable from the ground.

Vegetable brine: 1 TBLS pickling salt, two liters of water (I use only purified water).
Meat: We'll that goes through the MExpress. Like I said, can run it with or without marinade flavor. I's easy to understand but hard to explain.

See vegetables lose their water to simple evaporation but with meat its different. When an animal's flesh is cut, the cells leak myoglobin. (Thats the juice that those little sponges absorb at the bottom of meats). By adding a brine with phosphates, you cna actually increase the moisture in the meat. 

http://store.theingredientstore.com/fabmeatenhancers.aspx

I know it sounds like your creating a Frankenstein in the kitchen but remember, cooking is all about chemistry. These FAB enhancers are just amazing in sausage or any form of BBQ. Brings out a tangy, flavorful (wipe my drooling mouth) brightness the he sausage. 

My curing chamber:


----------



## BDD (Jul 30, 2012)

LOL!! And that would be for tonight's din? 

Thanks for the link for the "enhancers". Will try this setup (w/ tumbler) one day. 

"Kid"??


----------

