# Recommend a beginner stone.



## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

New to sharpening and to this forum. I am currently looking at the shapton glass 1000 as a starter after reading way too much. Does anyone have any reason I shouldn't use this? I looked at the king 1000 and a few other stones like the sigma series. I don't have any expensive knives. I want to be good at sharpening before I get one. The reason I'm looking at the shapton is for it's low dishing and good overall sharpening that I've heard about. Trying to avoid any of the JKI brands at least for the first stone.
Thanks for any help


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## LoneWolfGang (Jul 10, 2017)

The shapton glass stone is great.

I always recommend the king 1000 to new sharpeners.

The advantage of the king is that it's cheap, and with good technique you will achieve outstanding results.

The advantage of the shapton glass is that it dishes slowly, meaning you won't have to buy a flattening plate for a while. It's probably faster, and the splash and go feature is handy.

Others will disagree, but I prefer the feedback on the king. I also think that soaking and flattening are valuable learning experiences in and of themselves.

Hope that helps


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## S-Line (Jul 10, 2017)

Hi Haibane, welcome to the forums. I've used the shapton glass stones before The shaptons definitely excel at what you're wanting out of your stones, low dishing and handles almost all steel types with ease. The only drawback is that the feedback isn't too pleasant. For some, that's a major concern, for others, not so much.. Any reason why you're trying to avoid the JKI stones in particular? It might help others understand what you're looking for. 

I myself personally love my chosera 1k. It's got the same convenience of the glass stones being splash and go, dishes very very slowly, cuts all types of steel I throw at it and the feedback is not bad. But like the shaptons, it will clog just a little with use but that's an easy fix.

Wantanabe ai#1000 would be another fantastic stone. 

-Cheers, 
John


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## foody518 (Jul 10, 2017)

You could also look into Bester 1200, Sigma Power $1000, or King Hyper 1000 (if you can find it for <$60)


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Jul 10, 2017)

Haibane said:


> New to sharpening and to this forum. I am currently looking at the shapton glass 1000 as a starter after reading way too much. Does anyone have any reason I shouldn't use this?



Knife sharpeners seem to complain about Shapton "feel". Woodworkers, on average, prefer harder stones and seem to be about 50/50 on it. It seems to work well for them, but it is very expensive for its thickness and many think it is a poor value. They like Chosera and Sigma's as better values for similar characteristics. (I haven't use any of these.)



Haibane said:


> ... I don't have any expensive knives. I want to be good at sharpening before I get one....



Have you seen this seen this other stone thread? I assume you are asking about stones for similar knives.



Haibane said:


> ... Trying to avoid any of the JKI brands at least for the first stone....



Why? I admit I'm a terrible fan-boy, but when I don't know exactly what I want getting what Jon recommends has been a very successful strategy for me.

Dave


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

Hi all. Thanks for the feedback. The reason I want to JKI is I've had several issues with suppliers turned manufacturer who have big forum support. This was in other hobbies I've had, but still makes me wary. I'm intrigued by sigma though.


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

foody518 said:


> You could also look into Bester 1200, Sigma Power $1000, or King Hyper 1000 (if you can find it for <$60)



I'm not familiar with bester. Can you tell me more about them?


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

On a side note, anyone have a good dealer for sigma or chosera?


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## King_Bickfast (Jul 10, 2017)

For me, my favourite stone ever is the naniwa pro 800. In reality, it's more like a 1200 grit stone as far as I can tell however it is more than capable of some minor thinning. You can achieve a more than serviceable edge with it on both stainless steel and carbon when followed by a light stropping on newspaper. The reason I would be hesitant to suggest a shapton stone to a beginner is because of how quickly it cuts which for me was problem when learning to sharpen, meaning that i ended up whetting far more material than was necessary and creating issues for myself.


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## Benuser (Jul 10, 2017)

King_Bickfast said:


> For me, my favourite stone ever is the naniwa pro 800. In reality, it's more like a 1200 grit stone as far as I can tell however it is more than capable of some minor thinning. You can achieve a more than serviceable edge with it on both stainless steel and carbon when followed by a light stropping on newspaper. The reason I would be hesitant to suggest a shapton stone to a beginner is because of how quickly it cuts which for me was problem when learning to sharpen, meaning that i ended up whetting far more material than was necessary and creating issues for myself.



+1
The Naniwa Pro 800 is very versatile, offers a lot of tactile feedback and is fast. An experienced sharpener can sharpen on almost anything, a novice will benefit from speed -- no time to get tired and make errors -- and the feel so you know what's happening.


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

King_Bickfast said:


> For me, my favourite stone ever is the naniwa pro 800. In reality, it's more like a 1200 grit stone as far as I can tell however it is more than capable of some minor thinning. You can achieve a more than serviceable edge with it on both stainless steel and carbon when followed by a light stropping on newspaper. The reason I would be hesitant to suggest a shapton stone to a beginner is because of how quickly it cuts which for me was problem when learning to sharpen, meaning that i ended up whetting far more material than was necessary and creating issues for myself.



Interesting. Never thought about it being too fast. I have some concerns over the chosera because i have heard it loads up quickly and eats material fast, which makes it the same deal as the shapton to me.


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## foody518 (Jul 10, 2017)

Look at toolsfromjapan for sigma.
Bester - cutting speed is fine but not great. Fairly dish resistant. Not too muddy. Soaker. Decent feedback
My Sigma - faster than the Bester and more aggressive. Maybe dishes faster than the Bester but it cuts faster


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Jul 10, 2017)

Haibane said:


> On a side note, anyone have a good dealer for sigma or chosera?



Those are stones I see woodworkers recommending more than knife sharpeners. The go to source for both is Tools from Japan It's a part-time one man business, which suffers supply problems and goes away entirely if he gets slammed at his day job. But he offers a good selection, not easily found in the USA, at good prices. All of his advertising seems to be word of mouth on forums. Since you've got problems with Jon @JKI, you'll hate this option.

Lee Valley has some Sigma II stones and might be your best bet.

BTW- again woodworkers, trying to buy these stones from Amazon vendors frequently complain about mis-described, mis-labeled, and outright counterfeit stuff. I've never tried to buy from the market place so this is hearsay and YMMV.


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

Yet-Another-Dave said:


> Those are stones I see woodworkers recommending more than knife sharpeners. The go to source for both is Tools from Japan It's a part-time one man business, which suffers supply problems and goes away entirely if he gets slammed at his day job. But he offers a good selection, not easily found in the USA, at good prices. All of his advertising seems to be word of mouth on forums. Since you've got problems with Jon @JKI, you'll hate this option.
> 
> Lee Valley has some Sigma II stones and might be your best bet.
> 
> BTW- again woodworkers, trying to buy these stones from Amazon vendors frequently complain about mis-described, mis-labeled, and outright counterfeit stuff. I've never tried to buy from the market place so this is hearsay and YMMV.


I have 0 problems with Jon. I just don't want my first stone to be from a supplier made source. I'll honestly probably go there for the course stone as he's been extremely helpful via email.


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

Also I was actually using a fair amount of my info for choosing from tools from Japan's comparison. I am intrigued by the sigma power stones, but not the select.


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 10, 2017)

Haibane said:


> Hi all. Thanks for the feedback. The reason I want to JKI is I've had several issues with suppliers turned manufacturer who have big forum support. This was in other hobbies I've had, but still makes me wary. I'm intrigued by sigma though.



Yeah let me say that if you pick an arbitrary number of "good" experiences people have had to feel safe going with Jon, you can find it here. I've gotten a few stones from him and been happy with all. Plus he's given me advice on using them several times. James and Maksim (from K&S and JNS) have been great too. That said, if you _really_ want to go with a standard stone from a random retailer (if a random website makes you feel better than one that just about everyone here has had good experiences with) just get the King or the Bester. They're the standards, for a reason: they're affordable and readily available, and good enough, and they'll give you a solid baseline (that most everyone else is familiar with as well) to compare other stones to, when and if you get that far.


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## foody518 (Jul 10, 2017)

Haibane said:


> Interesting. Never thought about it being too fast. I have some concerns over the chosera because i have heard it loads up quickly and eats material fast, which makes it the same deal as the shapton to me.



It generally has a rep for better feedback than shapton glass though iirc


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## JaVa (Jul 10, 2017)

fine-tools.com/sigma 

I have the Sigma Select II 1200 and 3000. Both are fast and feel OK. I've tested four of the JKI stones for a few days and they are superior in feel. They're bigger, not quite as fast as the Sigmas, but still quick enough. Really liked them so I would've bought two JKI stones after testing them, unfortunately getting stuff to Finland usually just gets too rich. So I took a chance on the Sigmas and pretty happy I did. 

They actually don't dish that much. less then I expected and less slurry too. Both probably because of the speed they cut so your never using them long enough to either to happen. Works well with all steels, but surprisingly nice for SS stuff.

But if you like to light up some scented candles, dim the lights down, put on some sweet slow tunes, enjoy a glass of some nice quality red, wearing your silk robe and some high end perfume while you carefully take out your stones and gather your knives for some special quality time, maybe the Sigmas aren't for you? They are too fast and not smooth enough for that and will leave you feeling neglected and a bit cold. 

The JKI stones are better, but the Sigmas offer nice quality stone option for someone looking for an efficient stone with ok feel and a friendly price tag.


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## StonedEdge (Jul 10, 2017)

I don't believe there's a such thing as a "beginner" stone. Just pick between S&G or soakers, find a grit range pertinent to the task you envision for it, then pick the best stone within your budget. Fast or slow, soft or hard, once you get used to a stone it doesn't matter as long as it gives you the edge you want. Although I can see how a slower cutting stone could potentially prevent some unwanted over-removal of steel (or drive you crazy).

Either way you will end up needing a lapping plate or truing stone at some point anyway.....


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

JaVa said:


> fine-tools.com/sigma
> 
> I have the Sigma Select II 1200 and 3000. Both are fast and feel OK. I've tested four of the JKI stones for a few days and they are superior in feel. They're bigger, not quite as fast as the Sigmas, but still quick enough. Really liked them so I would've bought two JKI stones after testing them, unfortunately getting stuff to Finland usually just gets too rich. So I took a chance on the Sigmas and pretty happy I did.
> 
> ...



When you say JKI stones do you mean the gesshin or unbranded 1k/3k. I'm now leaning towards a sigma power hard because the bester seems to require a 2hr soaking time. I don't have anywhere to "permasoak". I haven't given up on the Shapton glass, but them being discontinued in Japan.


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## JaVa (Jul 10, 2017)

Haibane said:


> When you say JKI stones do you mean the gesshin or unbranded 1k/3k. I'm now leaning towards a sigma power hard because the bester seems to require a 2hr soaking time. I don't have anywhere to "permasoak". I haven't given up on the Shapton glass, but them being discontinued in Japan.



I meant Gesshin. 

I don't know about Sigma power stones, but the Select II takes about 10-15 min soaking. I store mine permasoaked in two small plastic food containers from Ikea.


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

Thanks everyone. I think I'll start with a bester 1200 per a few suggestions. Hadn't thought about throwing these in an Ikea container. I think I can find room for that. Thanks for the input. I'll be back to discuss finishing stones when I get some experience and hopefully a blade .


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## Benuser (Jul 10, 2017)

Anyway, avoid Metalmaster, Japanese tools or any of his aliases. Just no contact, no confirmation, no status update, no answer to any mail sent by any of his numerous mail accounts. Nothing.


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

Benuser said:


> Anyway, avoid Metalmaster, Japanese tools or any of his aliases. Just no contact, no confirmation, no status update, no answer to any mail sent by any of his numerous mail accounts. Nothing.



Okay thanks. I had gotten the same vibe. Probably will just use JKI going forward. I went with chefs knifes to go for this order.


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## Nemo (Jul 10, 2017)

Will you be sharpening mainly Western stainless? If so, I wonder whether a coarser stone would suit this task better.

I have been happy with my Choseras. I bought them from Knives & Stones. I don't think the postage to USA is prohibitive and you don't have to pay Aussie GST. When I was looking at stones, the Naniwa Pros were thinner than the (I believe otherwise identical) Choseras, so they were quite good value.


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## Benuser (Jul 10, 2017)

The Naniwa Pro are thinner than the former Choseras, but denser as well. The non-mounted versions tend to dry more evenly. No soaking please, creating some mud may be helpful though.


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

I'm going to start with westerns with the hope to add some japanese


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## foody518 (Jul 10, 2017)

Fwiw... I used to finish western stainless knives on Bester 1200. Started them lower, 400-500 range


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Fwiw... I used to finish western stainless knives on Bester 1200. Started them lower, 400-500 range



Foody, I may be doing that later. What did you go with for the 400-500? I think most of my blades are good now because of the short period of time I've been using them. They're just a hair dull. been abusing them with something like this Kitchen Saviors Knife Sharpener Set - Professional 2 Stage Tungsten Steel and Ceramic Rod Sharpening System - Repair and Restore Knives


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## Benuser (Jul 10, 2017)

Haibane said:


> Foody, I may be doing that later. What did you go with for the 400-500? I think most of my blades are good now because of the short period of time I've been using them. They're just a hair dull. been abusing them with something like this Kitchen Saviors Knife Sharpener Set - Professional 2 Stage Tungsten Steel and Ceramic Rod Sharpening System - Repair and Restore Knives


Sounds like serious abuse to me. You will need to thin and build new edges. This is no simple daily maintenance. 

Soft stainless shouldn't be polished. It just leads to edge instability because of the carbides breaking out of the soft matrix. Better keep them rough. I use a Naniwa Pro 400 with them. Zwilling and Wüsthof get a 800-2k deburring, others the green side of a ScotchBrite pad. No refinement here.


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## Haibane (Jul 10, 2017)

Benuser said:


> Sounds like serious abuse to me. You will need to thin and build new edges. This is no simple daily maintenance.
> 
> Soft stainless shouldn't be polished. It just leads to edge instability because of the carbides breaking out of the soft matrix. Better keep them rough. I use a Naniwa Pro 400 with them. Zwilling and Wüsthof get an 800-2k deburring, others the green side of a ScotchBrite pad. No refinement here.



hmm even with only 2 uses?


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## foody518 (Jul 11, 2017)

You could always take photos so it's easier to tell 

I started with the soaker set Beston 500 Bester 1200 Suehiro Rika 5000. So that Beston was my first stone in that lower grit range. Have since gotten a 220 grit and some 400 grit stones and yes the 220 grit gets used regularly on other people's thick stainless. Don't have the time or patience to grind away on a medium stone for thick edges these days


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## Benuser (Jul 11, 2017)

Haibane said:


> hmm even with only 2 uses?



That's no use but abuse, as you've stated yourself.


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## foody518 (Jul 11, 2017)

JaVa said:


> I meant Gesshin.
> 
> I don't know about Sigma power stones, but the Select II takes about 10-15 min soaking. I store mine permasoaked in two small plastic food containers from Ikea.



The Sigma Power 400 is nearly splash and go. The 1000 Soft is 10-15 min soak. 6k is splash and go


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## Haibane (Jul 11, 2017)

https://imgur.com/gallery/Q9JPQ I don't know if these shots/angles are helpful. Felt the urge to clean the knife after taking photos lol.


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## Haibane (Jul 11, 2017)

Benuser said:


> That's no use but abuse, as you've stated yourself.



I actually meant only with two sharpenings lol. This has been used probably a couple hundred times lol


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## foody518 (Jul 11, 2017)

Haibane said:


> https://imgur.com/gallery/Q9JPQ I don't know if these shots/angles are helpful. Felt the urge to clean the knife after taking photos lol.


 
You will need to do something about the full fingerguard bolster eventually. See the lack of bevel towards the heel as well as where it thickens obviously. Without adjusting for these with repeated usage and sharpening you'll develop a slight hole in the edge because the end will be a low spot. Medium grit stone like the 1k isn't going to do a thing for that - maybe low low low grit sandpaper or diamond files


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## Haibane (Jul 11, 2017)

Foody, By something to the bolster... Any recommendations? I'm just trying to learn how to sharpen on this guy until I can get a better knife. So I may have to follow this up with the Gesshin 220.


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## panda (Jul 11, 2017)

gesshin 600 splash & go
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ones/products/gesshin-600-splash-and-go-stone


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## ThEoRy (Jul 11, 2017)

Haibane said:


> I went with chefs knifes to go for this order.



So let me get this straight. Jon helped you via email and then you made your purchase from a man who some would describe as Lord Voldemort? Considering your previous experience with forum vendors I find the irony in this scenario hilarious.


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## daveb (Jul 11, 2017)

@ Rick, There does indeed seem to be some irony, but let's play nice:cool2:.


Reminds me of my first foray into knives, stones, etc. I ordered a G Ginga from Jon as 1st Jknife and the Bestor 500, 1.2K and Suehiro 5K from Togo. Only sharpening experience was DMT plates for hunting knives and pull thru sharpeners for myriad kitchen knives. After a couple weeks I was getting no-where fast with the mostly German knives. Called Mark to ask about what I was doing wrong. Nothing. I should use them until I learned how. Called Jon to order the Gesshin soakers to replace the "non-working" stones. He asked about what I had been using, walked me through how to best use them (first time I heard of perma-soaking), praised the Bestor set and discouraged me from buying new stones until I was more familiar with what I already had.

I can appreciate not wanting to buy into the vendor / maker thing, though in this case I don't think the concern is warranted. Moreover Togo is probably the worst example of vendor / maker in the business with the many "exclusives" that are primarily knock offs of other products. 

To the Bestor, even after some use I still hated (and still do) the 500. Liked the 1.2K and frequently paired Suehiro a lot. Amazon has them. Did buy the Gesshin soakers and preferred them.

Good luck and hope to see you here often.


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 11, 2017)

Yeah I decided I wasn't going to say anything, but then you guys did. It makes me sad enough I kinda want to reroute my upcoming JNS purchase to JKI, but then that's not really fair to Maksim, is it? As he answered some questions for me.

Oh for a trust fund...


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Jul 11, 2017)

daveb said:


> ... ordered ... the Bestor 500, 1.2K and Suehiro 5K....



The "Dave Martell's Core Set of Sharpening Stones" from back in the day. (As a lurker) I remember Dave talking about the virtues and tradeoffs, the research he'd done, and why he felt this set of stones was the best value out there.


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## Haibane (Jul 13, 2017)

Lord Voldemort's package has arrived. Now to smite Harry with it. http://i.imgur.com/980vMPE.jpg


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 13, 2017)

Yet-Another-Dave said:


> The "Dave Martell's Core Set of Sharpening Stones" from back in the day. (As a lurker) I remember Dave talking about the virtues and tradeoffs, the research he'd done, and why he felt this set of stones was the best value out there.



Is it worth getting these even if you already have other great stones? They've been bugging me, of late.


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## foody518 (Jul 13, 2017)

DanHumphrey said:


> Is it worth getting these even if you already have other great stones? They've been bugging me, of late.



What are your other stones?


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Jul 13, 2017)

DanHumphrey said:


> Is it worth getting these even if you already have other great stones? They've been bugging me, of late.



Search the site for the earlier discussion / Dave M's description. (I assume it's still here.) It will be from 2012-2013 era IIRC.

Only you can decide for you. (What do you have and what don't you like about them?) I think Jon's Gesshin soaking set came out subsequently and was preferred (on average), but cost more.... Again, it's up to you.


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 13, 2017)

To answer the questions together, my other stones, currently, are Jon's diamond 1k/ 6k pair, Thai Binsui, Khao Men, 140 & 400 Atomas, and a Hideriyama from Jon. And I literally just ordered, earlier this evening, the JNS 1k/ synthetic red aoto.

What don't I like about them? There's nothing I really "don't like" about them. The JKI diamond stones, alone (or with a strip of denim), will put a plenty good edge on a kitchen knife. I have never, though, been able to do something like treetop arm hair, and I've never tried honing a razor though that would be fun eventually. Really I just want enough experience to do justice to my Bloodroots, when my number comes up in like another year. And, as nice as the JKI diamond stones are, I think they work too quickly to teach me anything.


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Jul 13, 2017)

Yet-Another-Dave said:


> Search the site for the earlier discussion / Dave M's description. (I assume it's still here.) ....



Never assume. I found a book mark and get an invalid link error. I then searched and (1) found a post that links to the thread, but following that link gets the same error. So I guess it's gone. And, (2) found...:



DanHumphrey said:


> In a couple of weeks I want to upgrade my stones; currently I have a King 1000/3000 combo that's on the small side. The options I'm considering are:
> 
> 
> $135 - Gesshin 1000/6000 combo
> ...



Dude, you've been down this path before!


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## Haibane (Jul 13, 2017)

Hey guys so are the Ikea wood boards worth using over a standard poly type?


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## daveb (Jul 13, 2017)

DanHumphrey said:


> Is it worth getting these even if you already have other great stones? They've been bugging me, of late.



Grossly oversimplified but there are two kinds of sharpeners. Those that enjoy, find relaxing, interesting sharpening different knives with different stones. Those that inevitably end up with a little of everything including Jnats.

And those that take the wham bam thank you mam approach. Get it sharp, get it done.

If you consider yourself in the first group then by all mean pick up the Bestor 1.2 and the Suehiro 5K. Compare for yourself. Or reserve the funds for additional Jnats. If you're in the 2nd group then don't sweat it - what you have works. Next.


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## K813zra (Jul 13, 2017)

daveb said:


> Grossly oversimplified but there are two kinds of sharpeners. Those that enjoy, find relaxing, interesting sharpening different knives with different stones. Those that inevitably end up with a little of everything including Jnats.
> 
> And those that take the wham bam thank you mam approach. Get it sharp, get it done.
> 
> If you consider yourself in the first group then by all mean pick up the Bestor 1.2 and the Suehiro 5K. Compare for yourself. Or reserve the funds for additional Jnats. If you're in the 2nd group then don't sweat it - what you have works. Next.



Maybe it is oversimplified but I thought it was a damn fine response and sums up this sharpening disease nicely. :doublethumbsup:


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Jul 13, 2017)

Haibane said:


> Hey guys so are the Ikea wood boards worth using over a standard poly type?



No first hand experience, but I just searched what they have on their website. (BTW- they call them "chopping boards", not "cutting boards", and that caused me some confusion at first.)

Most of them look small. The wood ones all appear to be edge-grain in the photos (even the ones called butcher block.) If you got one of them large enough* for your needs, they seem as if they'd hold up as well or better than the typical poly ones I've seen. Seems like they'd be equal, or a little better, on your edges too. That said they aren't the end-grain usually recommended or rubber which is usually recommended as a wood substitute.

*American's Test Kitchen says 15" x 20" is the minimum useful size. I tend to agree, but those are too big and too heavy for many cooks and many kitchens.


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## Haibane (Jul 13, 2017)

Yet-Another-Dave said:


> No first-hand experience, but I just searched what they have on their website. (BTW- they call them "chopping boards", not "cutting boards", and that caused me some confusion at first.)
> 
> Most of them look small. The wood ones all appear to be edge-grain in the photos (even the ones called butcher block.) If you got one of them large enough* for your needs, they seem as if they'd hold up as well or better than the typical poly ones I've seen. Seems like they'd be equal, or a little better, on your edges too. That said they aren't the end-grain usually recommended or rubber which is usually recommended as a wood substitute.
> 
> *American's Test Kitchen says 15" x 20" is the minimum useful size. I tend to agree, but those are too big and too heavy for many cooks and many kitchens.




Thanks, Dave. I will have to look into one. It seems in the meantime, I have to look into a coarse stone. There doesn;t seem to be enough to put a burr on my Western with this medium. I'm still figuring it out though


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 14, 2017)

Yet-Another-Dave said:


> Never assume. I found a book mark and get an invalid link error. I then searched and (1) found a post that links to the thread, but following that link gets the same error. So I guess it's gone. And, (2) found...:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, you've been down this path before!



Ha! Yes, I've been down this path (and others) before, but didn't remember that. So thanks for that!

Dave, I don't sharpen as much as I'd like to, but I'd like to get _good_ at it. Is there anything to developing skills with different stones, or finding ones that work best for you? Or is it more like just keep practicing with what you have, good or bad, and you'll develop the skills?


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Jul 14, 2017)

DanHumphrey said:


> Ha! Yes, I've been down this path (and others) before, but didn't remember that. So thanks for that!



(I was amused and teasing a little. I am sorry I couldn't find Dave Martell's own words, but I guess that piece of history is gone.)



DanHumphrey said:


> Dave, I don't sharpen as much as I'd like to, but I'd like to get _good_ at it. Is there anything to developing skills with different stones, or finding ones that work best for you? Or is it more like just keep practicing with what you have, good or bad, and you'll develop the skills?



I'm more in your boat than not and not really someone to answer this. (I'm following these threads due to my own search for sharpening enlightenment and just chipping in with the bits & pieces I know / remember to try and be helpful.) That said....

I'm much more comfortable with woodworking tools than knifes. (Very different profiles, different bevel angles, and somewhat different skills / techniques.) I think being mindful of what you are trying to accomplish, carefully evaluating what you do accomplish, and practicing are the keys. For me, the key bit of advice to help me with my mental block was an instructor (teaching handsaw sharpening) saying, "A poorly sharpened saw is better than a dull saw. Just do it, and plan to make it better the next time you sharpen it."

All that said, if you find the perfect stone set that solves all problems and magically fixes skill deficiencies, please post! I'm sure I'll be here still hoping for the "magic bullet".


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## Haibane (Jul 15, 2017)

Hey, guys so... back on topic... Any suggestions for a good coarse stone? I'm really enjoying the Bester, but from discussions on here and experience, I think I need a coarse stone for my Chef Knife. Any suggestions? I'm not really sure what grit to go for or brand.


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## daveb (Jul 15, 2017)

My fav? JNS 300 - a splash and go. Slight preference for it over JKI 400 - a soaker. These two are leagues ahead of Bestor 500, to me. Could never get the water right on the 500, always too dry or too wet.


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## Haibane (Jul 15, 2017)

daveb said:


> My fav? JNS 300 - a splash and go. Slight preference for it over JKI 400 - a soaker. These two are leagues ahead of Bestor 500, to me. Could never get the water right on the 500, always too dry or too wet.



Any suggestions for where you could get one?


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## panda (Jul 15, 2017)

Cerax 320


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## Haibane (Jul 15, 2017)

panda said:


> Cerax 320


Hey Voldemort sells these...


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## daveb (Jul 15, 2017)

Haibane said:


> Any suggestions for where you could get one?



The JNS stone is available from JNS. The JKI (Gesshin) stone is available from JKI. The Cerax you can dig up a piece of sidewalk and call it your own - clean side up...


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## foody518 (Jul 15, 2017)

Budget?


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## Haibane (Jul 15, 2017)

Trying to stay under 75, but I'm okay with pushing it a little.


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## Haibane (Jul 15, 2017)

daveb said:


> The JNS stone is available from JNS. The JKI (Gesshin) stone is available from JKI. The Cerax you can dig up a piece of sidewalk and call it your own - clean side up...



Lol. Yeah. I'm debating the Gesshin 400. What is the difference with 400S?


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## JBroida (Jul 15, 2017)

the 400s cuts a bit faster and feels coarser, but dishes a very tiny bit more quickly... the 400 feels smoother and creamier, and is a bit more muddy. The 400s is about to run out and will not be brought back in... too many coarse stones right now. Its a good stone, but wont be able to produce it moving forward.


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## foody518 (Jul 15, 2017)

JBroida said:


> the 400s cuts a bit faster and feels coarser, but dishes a very tiny bit more quickly... the 400 feels smoother and creamier, and is a bit more muddy. The 400s is about to run out and will not be brought back in... too many coarse stones right now. Its a good stone, but wont be able to produce it moving forward.



Nooooooo


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## JBroida (Jul 16, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Nooooooo



dont worry... i'm always looking around at other cool things


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## Nemo (Jul 16, 2017)

daveb said:


> The JNS stone is available from JNS. The JKI (Gesshin) stone is available from JKI. The Cerax you can dig up a piece of sidewalk and call it your own - clean side up...



What don't you like about the Cerax?


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## ThEoRy (Jul 16, 2017)

Haibane said:


> Trying to stay under 75, but I'm okay with pushing it a little.



Gesshin 400 from JKI. Cuts very fast, doesn't dish as slow as a Beston 500 but does cut faster than one. Has amazing feedback. You can always feel the bevel on the stone. Gets muddy and leaves a nice scratch pattern. It's good for setting up blade roads on single bevel knives as well. Just get it.


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## Haibane (Jul 16, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> Gesshin 400 from JKI. Cuts very fast doesn't dish as slow as a Beston 500 but does cut faster than one. Has amazing feedback. You can always feel the bevel on the stone. Gets muddy and leaves a nice scratch pattern. It's good for setting up blade roads on single bevel knives as well. Just get it.



Okay cool. I'll have to wait til Jon gets some flattening plates back in order to meet that 100 dollar minimum


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## loong (Jul 21, 2017)

I think shapton glass stone could be a option. I like them because they do not need a soak.


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## daveb (Jul 21, 2017)

Haibane said:


> Okay cool. I'll have to wait til Jon gets some flattening plates back in order to meet that 100 dollar minimum



Just bundle it with a G2K. Easy day.


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## Choppin (Jul 22, 2017)

daveb said:


> Just bundle it with a G2K. Easy day.



I have both the Gesshin 400 and 2000. Can't recommend them enough. I'm planning on getting the 4000 also, that might be a nice addition now that it's 25% off.


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## Triggaaar (Jul 23, 2017)

Choppin said:


> I have both the Gesshin 400 and 2000. Can't recommend them enough. I'm planning on getting the 4000 also, that might be a nice addition now that it's 25% off.


I can't see the 25% off (at JKI), where should I look?


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Jul 23, 2017)

Triggaaar said:


> I can't see the 25% off (at JKI), where should I look?



Here, in his forum. The specific message is:



JBroida said:


> The #Gesshin 4000 grit stone ....


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## Triggaaar (Jul 23, 2017)

Yet-Another-Dave said:


> Here, in his forum. The specific message is:


Thank you


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## Haibane (Jul 26, 2017)

Ordered the 400, but realized I had just needed to improve my angle through Jon's assistance of course.


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## usuba2223 (Jul 30, 2017)

Hi,

I'm looking for some new whetstones for all kind of sharpening. I have now only naniwa 3000/10.000 for honing. Obviously I need some coarser stones too. My naniwa stone is "super stone" series, so now I was thinking to get something from "sharpening stone" series. I like naniwa stone, but it is there anything very similar with naniwa? I could even try different manufacturer depending on price. Any suggestions what kind of stones I need? I was thinking to get 400 for really dull blades and maybe in future also for small chips repairing. Maybe 1000 could be good for just for regular sharpening? I could buy even naniwa combination stone 800/5000, but not sure it is good idea since I already have 3000 naniwa. Please any suggestion what I could get with my 3000/10.000 stone.


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## PalmRoyale (Jul 30, 2017)

Have you considered Atoma diamond plates? The 600 and 1200 grit plates are what I use and they're faster than any waterstone I've ever used. They will also outlast a waterstone by years. I finish on a Shapton Glass 3000 stone.


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## palyujl (Jul 30, 2017)

naniwa chorsea 400and 5000 shapton 1000 best choice


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## Nemo (Jul 31, 2017)

palyujl said:


> naniwa chorsea 400and 5000 shapton 1000 best choice



How do you find the feedback on the Chosea 5000?


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## killerfrenzi (Aug 10, 2017)

Are there different types (not grit) of King stones or is it just mostly size? Reading like a KDS one or something.

Is there something like a next step up for a med and fine grit that holds TREMENDOUS value as a stone/stones over the King?


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## foody518 (Aug 10, 2017)

killerfrenzi said:


> Are there different types (not grit) of King stones or is it just mostly size? Reading like a KDS one or something.
> 
> Is there something like a next step up for a med and fine grit that holds TREMENDOUS value as a stone/stones over the King?



What's your price limit per stone?


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## killerfrenzi (Aug 10, 2017)

foody518 said:


> What's your price limit per stone?



Roughly $25-30 each. But what else am I looking to get? Looking at the CKTG 140 grit flattening stone for $30. Possibly some money into a holder and a container for a pond/work area, and something to strop with (wine cork). 

I'm not sure of what's a next step over a larger King 1000/6000 ($35) plus holder ($30).


OR... a better summary is any of the most recommended stones are good (Bester, King, Shapton, Suehiro (all lines), etc...) and can't go wrong with any of them. And they're all priced well for their respective value.


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## Razor (Aug 10, 2017)

Just remember when learning that a lower grit <1000 stone can do a lot of damage very quickly compared to a finer grit stone. Learn the strokes and how to watch the water cut through with a high grit stone before going down the grit scale.


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