# Japanese quality with German heft



## Star (Dec 1, 2018)

I note there is a strong view that one gets more value our of Japanese knives than German due to heat treatment, hardness and ability to hold and edge longer; however, are more delicate due to the nature of Japanese cooking than their European counterparts. That being said, what Japanese kitchen knife alternatives yet similar heft to the Wustofs, Zwilling and Messermeister would you suggest?


----------



## Nemo (Dec 1, 2018)

I think that you are describing a food release/ workhorse grind? Do you want it for the food release or the weight or the robustness?

Watanabe is an obvious example. My 270 is my sauerkraut knife.

I think that Toyama has a similar grind.

Some versions of Yoshikane are pretty hefty.

Some of Mazaki's knives are moderatly hefty.

Shiro Kamo's gyutos tend to be pretty tall, which increases weight.

Many custom makers make a pretty nice workhorse. Some of these will cost you, though.


----------



## inferno (Dec 1, 2018)

the mac brand of knives are very good for this.

I have personally had the scalloped santoku 
and the plain santoku. both use the "superior" steel aka aus8 but cryoed. its about 60-61hrc or so, and completely unchippy. I used my scalloped santoku to open ALL cardboard and plastic and tape containers that entered my home for about 1 year. it had 3 small chips in the blade after that. and it was still sharp. doesn't get better than this.

these are cryoed
https://www.macknife.com/collection...onal-series-6-1-2-santoku-with-dimples-msk-65
https://www.macknife.com/collection...onal-series-8-chefs-knife-with-dimples-mth-80
https://www.macknife.com/collections/superior-series/products/superior-series-6-1-2-santoku-sk-65
i have owned the msk65 and sk65

everything in this series is cryoed
https://www.macknife.com/collections/superior-series

everything here is also cryoed
https://www.macknife.com/collections/ultimate-series

and its plenty tough.

i also have a japanesechefsknife.com blue moon and it has been completely unchippy to me
https://japanesechefsknife.com/collections/blue-moon very good knives for cheap. i have about 12 or so knives that are high end but this one gets the sharpest. much sharper than anything stainless. these are stainless clad carbon steel.


----------



## Star (Dec 1, 2018)

I do get frustrated when people on product reviews (not just knives) you can get better for same or less $$ but then the person does not say what! Appears the same fir most German knives posts which are critical. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## nonoyes (Dec 1, 2018)

Also keep in mind the heft of German and similar knives derives in part from heavy handles, the "finger guard" at the heel, thick bolsters, and full tangs. Not all of it has to do with blade geometry.


----------



## HRC_64 (Dec 1, 2018)

Mac makes a line of knives called "ultimate" that are heavy like a german knife. 
Quite expensive tho, as I think the 240 is around $250-300.


----------



## inferno (Dec 1, 2018)

not cheap at all but probably very good for the OP intention!


----------



## inferno (Dec 1, 2018)

its probably the very king of beefy blades


----------



## panda (Dec 1, 2018)

mac ultimate is exactly what you are asking for


----------

