# Good cheap stones for someone wanting to get into waterstone sharpening?



## branwell (Aug 30, 2021)

For years I've been recommending the King 1k / 6k combo stone. As much as I still like the King 1k on occasion, the worlds moved on.

So whats a good combo under $50.00 for people wanting to dip their toes into the stoned world? Cerax 1K/3K?


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## Rangen (Aug 30, 2021)

My advice for such people: Buy the Shapton Pro 1000 (or the glass, if you can find it for that price), skip the higher grit, get really good on the one high-quality stone. You can get an excellent edge on a 1K, once your skills lock in. Heck, I even shaved with a Shapton Glass 1000 edge once. It was not a close shave, but it was a shave, and a comfortable one at that.


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## M1k3 (Aug 30, 2021)

Rangen said:


> My advice for such people: Buy the Shapton Pro 1000 (or the glass, if you can find it for that price), skip the higher grit, get really good on the one high-quality stone. You can get an excellent edge on a 1K, once your skills lock in. Heck, I even shaved with a Shapton Glass 1000 edge once. It was not a close shave, but it was a shave, and a comfortable one at that.


Add in some kind of strop, cereal box cardboard, paper of some kind, shirt sleeve or pants leg. Good to go for cheap.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Aug 30, 2021)

I know it goes against the conventional wisdom, but I actually chose to jump the 1k and went with a SG2k as my first water stone and have zero regrets. 

What I find when I start talking sharpening with people, isn't the cost of the stone, it's the cost and periphery requirements. Holder, flattening stone, etc. Yeah, we all know there's work-arounds but we all also know how much we like the dedicated items. So I try to think about that too when making recommendations. Compromises must be made.

While I don't have personal experience with it, @Deadboxhero is a big fan of the King NEO 800 and that's a good enough recommendation for me to also recommend it. Splash and go, middle of the road grit, and built-in holder.

People who are new to sharpening just want feedback. They don't need higher grit edges for a while.


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## adam92 (Aug 30, 2021)

For the feedback, go for cerax 1k/ king deluxe/hyper. For splash & go, SP/sg 1k /2k is fine. 

I love my sp2k, such a joy when sharpening with this one.

If you decided to buy a 1k stone, you don't need 2k.


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## cotedupy (Aug 31, 2021)

You can probably guess my answer... 

Yep - Cerax 1/3k is what I recommend. (Or King 1.2 for a even more budget single stone option).


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## daveb (Aug 31, 2021)

adam92 said:


> If you decided to buy a 1k stone, you don't need 2k.



A SP1000 and 2000 is an ideal marriage of stones for house knives, most stainless and Euro knives. The 1000 works a little low for it's grit, the 2000 works a little high. Good combo for quick and dirty gyuto right damn now rehab as well.


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## adam_Cullen (Aug 31, 2021)

Rangen said:


> My advice for such people: Buy the Shapton Pro 1000 (or the glass, if you can find it for that price), skip the higher grit, get really good on the one high-quality stone. You can get an excellent edge on a 1K, once your skills lock in. Heck, I even shaved with a Shapton Glass 1000 edge once. It was not a close shave, but it was a shave, and a comfortable one at that.



I am a big fan of the Shapton Pro as well. It was the first 1000 git i got when i started out and enjoy the feel still.. If you really are looking for a cheap start, King always has some good deals around to strat you out. RYKY on youtube has a video where he breaks down some of the different stones and feels if that is something of interest. that said, i definitely would not cheap out on your flattening stone though... it is very important for stone maintenance and a bad stone or a cheap stone could really contribute to a bad experience and bad sharpening over a period of time. Just my thought


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## Deadboxhero (Aug 31, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I know it goes against the conventional wisdom, but I actually chose to jump the 1k and went with a SG2k as my first water stone and have zero regrets.
> 
> What I find when I start talking sharpening with people, isn't the cost of the stone, it's the cost and periphery requirements. Holder, flattening stone, etc. Yeah, we all know there's work-arounds but we all also know how much we like the dedicated items. So I try to think about that too when making recommendations. Compromises must be made.
> 
> ...


That Neo cuts the PM tool steels better than the ceramic stones.


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## tcmx3 (Aug 31, 2021)

King Neo 800 is fine. Convenient more than anything else.

I prefer Cerax 1000 (soaker) or SP1000. Really want to try JNS 1000 but shipping costs. Does anyone know if that stone is being sold by any other vendors cloer to the US?


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## Benuser (Aug 31, 2021)

I'd agree with suggesting one single stone. In my country, for a long time the Choseras / Naniwa Pro were realively affordable. The NP800 is the most versatile stone you may imagine, depending on the amount of pressure, mud, water you apply. And it offers a lot of tactile feedback if that matters. To me at least, it does. The end result is quite close to the SP2k. The advantage of the SP over the NP would be in easier deburring.


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## Grayswandir (Sep 1, 2021)

branwell said:


> For years I've been recommending the King 1k / 6k combo stone. As much as I still like the King 1k on occasion, the worlds moved on.
> 
> So whats a good combo under $50.00 for people wanting to dip their toes into the stoned world? Cerax 1K/3K?



I'd go for a Suehiro/Cerax stone, they're very nice. I own a Shapton 12K and it's really nice as well. Naniwa stones are good too, but there has been some incidents of them cracking on users (Splash and go stones). I wouldn't go cheap if I were you, it makes more sense to start out on a quality stone. King makes a good stone, but like others have said, the times they are a changing.


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## branwell (Sep 1, 2021)

Hahahaha. As usual, so many options and valid. Such a rabbit hole. Thanks guys.


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 1, 2021)

branwell said:


> Hahahaha. As usual, so many options and valid. Such a rabbit hole. Thanks guys.


And that's mainly considering differing sharpening strategies. Most responses have ignored the question of steel type, aside from daveb who imagines that a beginning sharpener would have lower hardness stainless knives, and DeadBoxHero who imagine they might have exotic high hardness/carbide-rich steels. Edge geometry and cutting styles are factors as well.

I can imagine a beginner who owns mainly lower-hardness euro stainless, MAC or misono moly, and favors a thicker edge that can withstand more abuse. For this person the King Neo 800 would be ideal. I think it's a mediocre stone for the typical fine-grained steels we prefer here, but it works well on gummy euro stainless and leaves an ideal finish for this type of knife.

I can also imagine someone who just bought their first ~$300 J-knife, and is interested in learning how to maintain it. I think a lower grit stone would be absolutely wrong in this situation, when the knife has excellent geometry and is already very thin behind the edge. If they truly want to limit their sharpening budget to $50, then I guess a combo stone is the way to go. I have no experience with these, and would defer to cotedupy's suggestion of the Cerax 1/3k combo.

If they're evaluating whether to take the plunge on a full set of stones or commit to paying for professional sharpening, then I'd recommend something like the Shapton Pro 2k. Something on the higher side of medium-grit, that will easily raise a burr but hopefully keep them from destroying the geometry when they make the inevitable beginners mistakes. I like the SP 2k because I prefer splash-and-go stones, but I can see the argument for starting on something with better feedback - though I have no experience with it, maybe Suehiro Ouka 3k for this budget since Choseras are out.

And remember that a $5 pack of wet/dry sandpaper works perfectly well for flattening stones on the cheap (220 grit for the Neo 800, 400 grit for the SP 2k)


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## tostadas (Sep 1, 2021)

The shapton 1k is my recommendation for first stone for someone getting into sharpening. It's fast, easy to use, comes with a case, and produces a very aggressive usable edge. 

Even though the shapton 2k is one of my favorite stones, I think the 1k is better for a first stone because of its speed, especially on crappy soft stainless. One of the key things to learn when starting out is how to get a burr, and also realizing what it feels like when you have actually created one. The SP1K can give you almost immediate indication of this after just a pass or two on a well-worn knife. The 2k takes a little longer to do this, so it may take some additional trial and error on the part of the user if their technique is off.

The confidence boost in seeing fast results can be the difference between someone becoming interested in diving deeper into sharpening or giving up altogether.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Sep 1, 2021)

I usually bring SG320 and SP1500 to friends’ home for their knives. 320 to create a relief bevel and 1500 for the edge. 

If I have to choose one stone only, I might choose SP1000 or SP1500.


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## sansho (Nov 24, 2021)

my friend's in this position. his only nice knife is a kono hd gyuto, and it would be used primarily for that. but i guess he might sometimes use it for other things.

he probably wants the cheapest option possible. afaik, that's about $50.

the options i see for him are:

just one decent 'finishing' stone (maybe 2000-4000 grit range). that would be great for touching up, but i guess he'd have to take it to a shop or something for thinning eventually. maybe SG 2000, 3000, or 4000?
a combo stone. maybe not as nice as a good stone, but probably more flexible. maybe king 1000/6000 or cerax 1000/3000? no clue which one is better
thoughts? specific suggestion?


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## Grayswandir (Nov 24, 2021)

sansho said:


> my friend's in this position. his only nice knife is a kono hd gyuto, and it would be used primarily for that. but i guess he might sometimes use it for other things.
> 
> he probably wants the cheapest option possible. afaik, that's about $50.
> 
> ...



I apologize for not giving you a suggestion from my personal experience, but I have read that people seem to really love the Shapton 2K stone. You can get it on Amazon for under $45 dollars.

Shapton 2K on Amazon

Don't worry about the misspelling on the listing, many people have bought the stone and have been very happy with it. Read the reviews and judge for yourself. I've bought two Shaptons off of Amazon so far and they have been really good stones, and economical as well.

-gray.


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## EShin (Nov 24, 2021)

sansho said:


> my friend's in this position. his only nice knife is a kono hd gyuto, and it would be used primarily for that. but i guess he might sometimes use it for other things.
> 
> he probably wants the cheapest option possible. afaik, that's about $50.
> 
> ...


Can he sharpen or is he interested in learning it properly? If not, I'd get a leather strop. If yes, I'd get a medium grit stone for now and if he'll want a more refined edge in the future, he can always add stones. The Shapton 2k suggested above would be an option, but I'd rather go for the 1500 (or the 1000) of the same series (add for example the 320 and the 5000 grit stones and you're pretty much settled). All of them are very nice and easy to use, and won't require much flattening and should be around the same price. There's a nice review by ModRQC here (for which he used a Konosuke HD): Shapton Pro 1500: First impressions/comparison with pics


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## Grayswandir (Nov 24, 2021)

I own a Shapton 1.5K and it's a very good stone, but I use it as a bevel setter for razors. I haven't tested it on my kitchen knives yet. I'm sure it would do a wonderful job on a kitchen knife as well. My next purchase will be a Naniwa Chosera 1K (specifically for razor bevel setting), as it apparently sets the standard for bevel setting in regards to razors. I've looked at several stones that have been tested using a microscope. You shouldn't go by the manufacturer's grit rating, as they all seem to differ, not just by country or industry standards, but from maker to maker. What surprised me about the Chosera was the scratch pattern it left under the microscope, or rather, the lack of a scratch pattern. I found it quite interesting that the Chosera 1K actually left something more akin to a kasumi finish.

Check out the video via the link below:

Naniwa Chosera 1000 vs Shapton Kuromaku 1000, the result will surprise you.

It seems the Shapton stones, at least at the lower end of the spectrum, are a little coarser then other manufacturer's stones at that grit rating. Someone mentioned that the Shapton 1000 was more like a 600 grit stone. I can't verify this myself, as I do not own one, nor have I ever used a Shapton 1000, but my Shapton 1.5K works well for my needs. Regardless, I still want to buy a Chosera 1k so I can compare it to the Shapton 1500. I think the 1500 would be a good stone for a kitchen knife, though it seems like a lot of people really love the Shapton 2K, for various reasons, one being good feedback, and of course, the edge it produces. I'm sorry I can't give you my personal experience on the 2K stone, as I do not own that stone yet.

Here's a screen capture comparing the 1K stones:


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## HumbleHomeCook (Nov 24, 2021)

sansho said:


> my friend's in this position. his only nice knife is a kono hd gyuto, and it would be used primarily for that. but i guess he might sometimes use it for other things.
> 
> he probably wants the cheapest option possible. afaik, that's about $50.
> 
> ...



King NEO is worth consideration.









[Clearance] King NEO #800 Knife Sharpening Stone ST-2


Shop Japanese knives, knife sharpening stones, Japanese tableware, kitchenware, restaurant supplies and equipments, take out containers, sushi and ramen supplies




mtckitchen.com


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## esoo (Nov 24, 2021)

sansho said:


> my friend's in this position. his only nice knife is a kono hd gyuto, and it would be used primarily for that. but i guess he might sometimes use it for other things.
> 
> he probably wants the cheapest option possible. afaik, that's about $50.
> 
> ...



IMO, HD2 is one of the easiest steels to sharpen. Super easy to touch up and keep sharp. I'm a broken record, but SG3K + strop (either loaded or unloaded) will put a great working edge on it.

At some point thinning will be needed - at that point, depending upon desire, either get a low grit stone or send it out to somewhere trusted (JKI, Bernal, etc).


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## stringer (Nov 24, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> I own a Shapton 1.5K and it's a very good stone, but I use it as a bevel setter for razors. I haven't tested it on my kitchen knives yet. I'm sure it would do a wonderful job on a kitchen knife as well. My next purchase will be a Naniwa Chosera 1K (specifically for razor bevel setting), as it apparently sets the standard for bevel setting in regards to razors. I've looked at several stones that have been tested using a microscope. You shouldn't go by the manufacturer's grit rating, as they all seem to differ, not just by country or industry standards, but from maker to maker. What surprised me about the Chosera was the scratch pattern it left under the microscope, or rather, the lack of a scratch pattern. I found it quite interesting that the Chosera 1K actually left something more akin to a kasumi finish.
> 
> Check out the video via the link below:
> 
> ...


Let me know what you think about the chosera 1000. I use the SP1500 for razor bevel setter as well. I don't have any issues with it. But I'm curious to hear your comparison notes. I do own a SP1000 but it has spent most of it's life in a toolbox at work so it's chipped and dished and dirty. I've never tried it with razors. On knives it's significantly faster than the 1500. Good feel. Softer and releases abrasive a lot quicker than the 1500. But still a pretty hard stone. Leaves a rough kasumi on clad knives similar to King 800 with a little less contrast. I definitely would not prefer it as a razor to the 1500 even if it was in better shape. If I really want to move some steel to fix a chip or something I just drop all the way down to Debado 180. Then SG 500 then SP 1500. After that it's all naturals. Coticule for mid range and I have a bunch of different finishers. My favorite right now is an unlabeled Thuringian slate that I swapped @cotedupy for a couple months ago.


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## Grayswandir (Nov 24, 2021)

Did you check out the video Stringer? It's worth a watch, but if you're pressed for time, just skip through every three minutes and look at the comparisons. At around the10:30 minute mark, the guy talks about how different grit ratings are between manufacturers. Apparently the Shapton 1K is probably somewhere between 600 and 800 grit. Shapton's stones are a little more aggressive, I guess that's why the 1.5K works well for setting bevels, but I'm looking for something that leaves less scratch marks. I know they get erased as you progress up the chain, but some of the scratches will remain, regardless of what you do.

I'll definitely let you know once I get the Chosera. I've also been keeping my eye open for those Electric razors you like. If there's a specific model you're looking for, tell me, and if I see it I'll message you immediately.

-gray.


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## stringer (Nov 24, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> Did you check out the video Stringer? It's worth a watch, but if you're pressed for time, just skip through every three minutes and look at the comparisons. At around the10:30 minute mark, the guy talks about how different grit ratings are between manufacturers. Apparently the Shapton 1K is probably somewhere between 600 and 800 grit. Shapton's stones are a little more aggressive, I guess that's why the 1.5K works well for setting bevels, but I'm looking for something that leaves less scratch marks. I know they get erased as you progress up the chain, but some of the scratches will remain, regardless of what you do.
> 
> I'll definitely let you know once I get the Chosera. I've also been keeping my eye open for those Electric razors. If there's a specific model you're looking for, tell me, and if I see it I'll message you immediately.
> 
> -gray.


I did watch it awhile ago. I'll have to check it out again. But I'm more interested in your impressions honestly. I don't know if I could go any slower than the 1500. I get pretty impatient and drop down often. If I wanted less scratches I would go naturals. Bevel set on washita or a fast coticule. I could use the one I have for mid range to bevel set. But like I said, I'm impatient. And I am cheap. So the razors I buy often require extensive chip removal. If the chosera is faster then I would be interested. Also coticule slurry is powerful stuff for buffing out scratches. I don't use anything else for midrange. All of my synthetics over 2k just sit around collecting dust nowadays.


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## Grayswandir (Nov 24, 2021)

I have a nice coticule, but I just haven't had the time to learn how to use it just yet. I'll definitely give it a try since you brought it up. I have no idea if the Chosera is faster, but I do have a friend who uses one for bevel setting. I'll ask him if it's fast after Thanksgiving. Like I said, I'll have to start learning how to use the coticule, I'm interested in using it in the ways you described, thank you.


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## ModRQC (Nov 24, 2021)

From my own experience, even NP800 is slower than SP1K. From reports of most, NP1K won't be any faster. 

Cerax 1K/Arashiyama 1K are pretty fast. No shy of SP1K. However I prefer the Cerax 1K - it's harder and doesn't dish as much. In fast sharpening/bevel setting, if not SG500 or SP1K, it's Cerax I like the most. And in fact, might be my very favorite 1K to this day.

Possibly @Benuser would rather propose NP600 to this purpose, and if a Chosera/NP. Seems fond of it.


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## Benuser (Nov 24, 2021)

ModRQC said:


> From my own experience, even NP800 is slower than SP1K.
> 
> Possibly @Benuser would rather propose NP600 to this purpose, and if a Chosera/NP. Seems fond of it.


The NP600 is a bit the Shapton among the Naniwa Pros. Fast, with little feedback. No need of much pressure, which I like. Feels coarser than the NP400, which is more versatile: a very different stone depending on the amount of pressure, water, mud. The 600 is an excellent starting point for setting a bevel, a very narrow one in my case. I often use it after thinning with a SG320, as a part of a full sharpening. Aogamis respond very well to starting with a relatively coarse stone.


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## Benuser (Nov 24, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> I have a nice coticule, but I just haven't had the time to learn how to use it just yet. I'll definitely give it a try since you brought it up. I have no idea if the Chosera is faster, but I do have a friend who uses one for bevel setting. I'll ask him if it's fast after Thanksgiving. Like I said, I'll have to start learning how to use the coticule, I'm interested in using it in the ways you described, thank you.


It's isn't that hard to create a thick paste of Coticule, without breaking down the abrasive particles to a finer sizer size. The initial ones will go through everything. At least, that's my experience with a soft one, after raising mud with an Atoma and using saliva. It even cuts soft stainless, which is highly abrasion resistant. Only when adding water the particles will get finer.
There is a caveat, though. Don't expect such an edge to offer a lot of bite. A Coticule doesn't offer the scratch pattern a synthetic stone gives. Has to do with round form of the garnets, the abrasive particles.


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## stringer (Nov 24, 2021)

Benuser said:


> There is a caveat, though. Don't expect such an edge to offer a lot of bite. A Coticule doesn't offer the scratch pattern a synthetic stone gives. Has to do with round form of the garnets, the abrasive particles.



That's what makes them such good razor stones. They don't bite your skin. A little too mellow for my tastes for a finisher. I prefer to live more dangerously. I do like hybrid coticule edges on knives though. Heavy hitting with something really coarse (like that Mutt stone or anything else in the sub500 genre) and then deburr on the coticule. A light touch leaves a lot of tooth but abrades any residual burr quickly.


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## Michi (Nov 27, 2021)

branwell said:


> So whats a good combo under $50.00 for people wanting to dip their toes into the stoned world? Cerax 1K/3K?


The King KDS 1000/6000 or the Cerax 1000/3000 will do just fine. The Cerax would be moderately more useful for kitchen knives, IMO, because a 3000 edge retains more bite. With a 6000 edge, knives tend to start gliding over tomato skin instead of cutting through it.


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## KingShapton (Nov 28, 2021)

Michi said:


> The King KDS 1000/6000 or the Cerax 1000/3000 will do just fine. The Cerax would be moderately more useful for kitchen knives, IMO, because a 3000 edge retains more bite. With a 6000 edge, knives tend to start gliding over tomato skin instead of cutting through it.


Your perspective is completely correct, the 3000 will leave more bite for the kitchen.

But ... with the King 1000/6000 there is the possibility of making a hybrid edge. And in that case there is also a lot of bite.

The important question now is whether this principle can be taught to a beginner. In that case I would even prefer the King kombi.

And if a beginner understands the principle of a hybrid edge right from the start and learns to use it successfully ... then he has got off to a damn good start.


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## KingShapton (Nov 28, 2021)

To add something more to the confusion  , there is another combination stone from Imanishi 1200/4000, sometimes referred to as 1000/4000.

That would also be an inexpensive and good option.

Otherwise, a good stone in the 1000 grit range from the "usual suspects" together with a faster, coarser stone in the 400-600 grit range would also be a good start for a beginner. You can always buy a finer stone later. So just look for current discounts and not commit to a manufacturer in advance. Most known stones are good, the recommendations here are mostly about nuances and personal preferences and that sometimes makes it more complicated than it has to be.


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