# First impressions & comparisons: Morihei Hishiboshi 500, 1000, 4000



## Kitchen-Samurai (Dec 30, 2019)

I hope all of you had a Merry Christmas! Mine was certainly nice, not least since I got a new set of sharpening stones: the Morihei Hishiboshi 500, 1000, and 4000 splash & go stones.

These stones are fairly new to the market, and the information on them is limited, so I figured that sharing my impressions might be of interest to some of you. If you have any specific questions, please let me know and I’ll try my best to answer them.

The stones are supposed to have a ‘natural stone feel’, and work especially well on single or wide bevel knives, as well as for creating contrast between hagane and jigane. From my understanding, they are non-magnesia bond splash & go stones, which contain a mix of synthetic and natural abrasives. I should state that I have several years of sharpening experience on synthetic stones, but no personal experience with J-Nats.

This is not a full review, but a first impressions thread. However, I have tested these stones in multiple sharpening sessions, with different steels (carbon and stainless), and side by side with other well-known stones (incl. Gesshin stones, Naniwa Pro/Chosera, Shapron Pro, King).

This post will cover my first impressions on how this set performed on a Takeda NAS Gyuto (AS with stainless clad). In a later post, I will give you my thoughts on how they compare to other stones (see above).







Here you have them, nice full-size stones (clearly bigger than, e.g., Naniwa Professional stones). I love the looks; I think the monochromatic color scheme along with the Japanese writing looks brilliant. However, the 500 is too dark (especially when wet), so it’s hard to see how much metal gets removed. They should have started with a lighter shade of grey. Also, the 1k and 4k are too similar in color. I have flattened all stones before the first sharpening, they were reasonably (but not perfectly) flat out of the box.

Morihei Hishiboshi 500: Even though this is a splash & go stone, it will absorb some water. That’s what most coarse splash & go stones do, and not a big deal for me. Water consumption during sharpening is very good for a coarse stone, you will need a couple of drops here and there, but nothing major. The stone feels nice and medium-hard, and the scratch pattern is even and what I would expect from a 400-500 grit stone. I don’t have any objective means to measure how quickly it cuts. My feeling tells me it’s medium to medium-fast, but, honestly, I don’t care too much about this, so take this with a grain of salt. You can work up some mud, though I wouldn’t call it a particularly muddy stone. I felt it benefitted from making a little slurry with my Atoma 140. Minimal contrast off of this stone, I had hoped for more. Might well have been my inaptitude, though. When wet, the stone gets so dark that you cannot really see whether metal is removed or not. All in all, a really nice coarse stone though.














Morihei Hishiboshi 1000: Although this stone also gets darker when wet, you can still see when metal is removed, so that’s not an issue. Nice feeling stone which is also medium-hard and can create some mud. However, as with the 500, I preferred it with a little more slurry from my Atoma 140. Just feels a bit more creamy. It is clearly finer/smoother than the 500, and holds water maybe a bit better. Apart from that, they perform similar. The scratch pattern is even but again, I was not able to create a decent contrast. First assessment: nice mid-grit stone, especially for wider bevels.










Morihei Hishiboshi 4000: Now we’re talking. Very smooth stone, creamy feeling, nice feedback, holds water even a bit better than the 1k. Lighter in color, so you can more easily see what you do. As it’s siblings, it benefits from a little head-start with the Atoma, and, again, I would guess it’s medium fast. The hagane gets nicely polished, while there is some haziness to the jigane. Not really a jaw-dropping Kasumi finish on my first attempt, but it’s a start. While I felt during my first sharpening session that both, the 500 and the 1k, are nice stones and worth the asking price, this stone kind of clicked with me immediately, on first assessment the stand-out stone of the bunch.


















In my next post, I will talk about sharpening a stainless steel knife, and compare the Morihei stones to better-known stones.


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## kayman67 (Dec 30, 2019)

4k is on my short list. 3k is nowhere near me unfortunately.


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## LostHighway (Dec 30, 2019)

Thanks for doing this. I'm very curious about these stones and look forward to future posts. I am especially curious about how the 1k compares in your experience to the SP1k and the Gesshin 1.5k SnG (if you have it). I hope someone else will pick up the torch and compare the Morihei 500 to the SG500. I'm also hoping someone will do comparisons of the Morihei 3k to the SG3k and the Morihei 6k to the Gesshin 6k SnG, the SG6k HC, and perhaps the JNS 6k and Arashiyama 6k.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Dec 30, 2019)

Alright, here we go with part 2 of this first impressions post. I will try go give you some idea on how the Morihei stones perform in relation to other well-known stones (only those which I own and could use side-by-side). This time, I also sharpened stainless steel knives.

Morihei Hishiboshi 500 comparisons: These are my stones in the 400-500 grit range: Gesshin 400, Naniwa Professional 400, and the Morihei 500. I would love to compare it to the Shapton Glass 500 as well (if someone wanted to send me his for a comparison…). Since the Naniwa Pro 400 is currently in storage, my main comparison will be the Gesshin 400. For those who don’t know this stone: it is a very well regarded, fast, medium-hard stone from Japanese Knife Imports with a very smooth and even finish for the grit rating. Tactile feel and feedback are very nice for a coarse stone. I like it a lot. It is a bit thirsty and dishes a bit quicker than some of the harder stones out there, but in my mind, that’s easily offset by its ‘3F’ virtues (feel, finish, fast). The Morihei 500 also feels nice for a coarse stone, and has the advantage of being relatively splash & go (if that is an advantage to you). It is a bit harder than the Gesshin 400, might dish slightly slower, and holds water a bit better on its surface. However, the Gesshin 400 has a much better visual feedback (since you can easily see when metal is removed due to its lighter color) and produces a smoother finish. To my surprise, there was a bit more contrast on clad knives with the Gesshin 400 as well. Both are great stones with different pros and cons. Do you need both stones? Certainly not. Do I want to keep both stones? Certainly yes!






Morihei Hishiboshi 1000 comparisons: These are my stones in the 800-2000 grit range: Naniwa Pro 800, Morihei 1k, Gesshin 2k, Shapton Pro 2k. This is a tough competition; these are killer stones (imho). I would say that the Naniwa and the Morihei are similar in terms of grit, the Gesshin 2k is in-between (we could arbitrarily call it 1500), and the Shapton Pro 2k feels the finest of the bunch. Best tactile feel and feedback: Pro 800. Fastest stone and most versatile: Gesshin 2k. Real splash & go, best finisher for stainless knives: Shapton Pro 2k. So, where does the Morihei sit in this comparison? I feel like I haven’t yet figured it out entirely. One could argue that it is one of the most well-rounded stones. It performs good to very good in all categories but does not excel in a particular category. And I didn’t find any apparent flaws. One could also argue that it performs best with single- or wide-bevel knives. I think I’ll need more time with this stone to reach my conclusions.






















Morihei Hishiboshi 4000 comparisons: 4k is finishing grit level for me, so I will compare it to my main finishing stones, the Naniwa Pro 3k (many people think it’s more a 4k stone), and the Gesshin 6k (soaker). I would have loved to compare it to a Shapton glass (3k/4k) or the Gesshin synthetic natural or the JNS synth red aoto as well. But unfortunately, I have none of them, yet. As you can probably tell from my initial description, I like the Morihei 4k a lot. All three stones feel slightly different, but all are top-notch in the tactile feel and feedback department. The Gesshin feels very creamy, and a bit chalky, the Morihei feels also creamy, especially after raising a bit of mud, very smooth, less chalky than the Gesshin. The Pro 3k feels also great, but less creamy than the other two, it doesn’t produce mud, feels a bit harder. If I had to guess, I’d say the Morihei is not as quite as fast as the other two, but both are known for their speed. In terms of polish, the Morihei is probably the best of the bunch for creating some contrast on clad knives. I clearly prefer it to the Pro 3k in this regard. On the other hand, the Pro 3k might be a tad harder and faster, so potentially better for double-bevel knives or creating micro-bevels. The Gesshin 6k (not surprisingly) gives the highest edge refinement of the three, the Pro 3k and the Morihei 4k leave a bit more bite on the edge. These are three truly exceptional stones. For me the Pro 3k excels at double bevels or micro-bevels, the Morihei on wide-bevels or creating contrast, and the Gesshin 6k at quickly producing a more refined edge for, e.g., push cutting.






I hope this was interesting to some of you. Let me know if you have any questions!


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## zizirex (Dec 31, 2019)

LostHighway said:


> Thanks for doing this. I'm very curious about these stones and look forward to future posts. I am especially curious about how the 1k compares in your experience to the SP1k and the Gesshin 1.5k SnG (if you have it). I hope someone else will pick up the torch and compare the Morihei 500 to the SG500. I'm also hoping someone will do comparisons of the Morihei 3k to the SG3k and the Morihei 6k to the Gesshin 6k SnG, the SG6k HC, and perhaps the JNS 6k and Arashiyama 6k.



Morihei 500 is better overall for me that the SG500, tactile feedback and cutting speed wise. The contrast is also better on Morihei, the only downside of Morihei is it's pretty thirsty for first-time use (either virgin first time or after not use for some time). While SG500 is you can use it straight away and water management is much easier.

Morihei 6k is probably my fav of all yet, the sharpening feel, the polish, the contrast and the bite. Arashiyama has similar polish and less contrast but it doesn't have a bite like the Morihei 6k. The 6K has a bite that I can use it for my Honesuki for cutting fatty meat and don't have any problem.


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## Matus (Dec 31, 2019)

Very nice write-up, thank you.


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## childermass (Dec 31, 2019)

Thanks a lot for this, couldn’t resist and ordered a set myself


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Dec 31, 2019)

childermass said:


> Thanks a lot for this, couldn’t resist and ordered a set myself



Great, I‘m sure you‘ll have fun with them. Which ones did you order? Please let us know how you feel about them, once you’ve had the chance to use them!


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## childermass (Dec 31, 2019)

Kitchen-Samurai said:


> Great, I‘m sure you‘ll have fun with them. Which ones did you order? Please let us know how you feel about them, once you’ve had the chance to use them!



I ordered the same set (500, 1000, 4000). Will post my experience with them as soon as I have tried them.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jan 1, 2020)

I did a bit more sharpening specifically on the Morihei 4k stone, in comparison to the Chosera/Pro 3k and the Gesshin 6k soaker. A couple of things became clearer to me, so I wanted to share it with you guys. I used my Takeda NAS Gyuto again. 

1. Speed: this time I concentrated a bit more on speed, and it seemed to me that the Chosera/Pro 3k is the fastest of the stones. I say that because a) visually metal was removed more quickly and b) a burr was formed is less time. The Gesshin might be a bit faster than the Morihei 4k, but I am not certain about this. After I raised some mud (with my Atoma) on Gesshin and Morihei, both stones cut much quicker. Still, I would say Chosera/Pro is the fastest, then Gesshin, then Morihei. Again, this is not something of huge importance to me, but it might be for some of you.

2. Tactile feel: I first tried all stones without artificially raising mud. In this scenario, and with the knife I used, the Chosera/Pro 3k had the nicest feeling while sharpening, and great feedback as well. I found the Gesshin maybe a bit better than the Morihei in this scenario. However, things changed considerably when I raised some mud (using an Atoma plate) on the Gesshin and Morihei stones (I did not do this on the Pro 3k since I did not feel any need for it). Both stones benefitted greatly from this, to the point where I cannot really pick a winner in the tactile feel department anymore. All were really great, but slightly different from each other. I was surprised how much of a difference raising mud made!

3. Water management: I will compare the Morihei to the Chosera/Pro here, since both are splash & go stones. Both soak in a bit of water initially, and then hold it very well. If a higher-grit Shapton Pro is 10/10, then Chosera might be 8.5 and Morihei 8. 

4. Final edge: All edges came out very nicely, and all certainly had enough bite left for me. Please note that I did not strop the knife (apart from on the stones), I tested the edge right off the stones. I cannot reliably state that any of the edges was really ‘better’ than the next one. Maybe the edge refinement went up slightly from Chosera/Pro to Morihei to Gesshin? Could I tell them apart, if I were blinded? Probably not.

5. Finish: I need to do more testing here. My feeling is that the Morihei and the Gesshin are better than the Chosera/Pro in this category, meaning more even, nicer looking, and more contrast (especially Morihei).


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## labor of love (Jan 1, 2020)

The Morihei should produce the best cosmetics of the 3. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if the Gesh 6k soaker produced an edge faster than morihei 4K, as the gesh 6k is very fast. 
Great stuff so far, thanks for all the reviews. Any chance you could test on a different knife?


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jan 1, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Great stuff so far, thanks for all the reviews. Any chance you could test on a different knife?



I tested them on the Takeda NAS and on some cheap stainless steel knives. I do have a higher-end stainless steel knife (SLD steel) at hand if that helps. Did you have something specific in mind?


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## labor of love (Jan 1, 2020)

Well I kinda wanted to what the finish from the morihei looks like. The takeda bevel is small so it’s hard for me to see.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jan 2, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Well I kinda wanted to what the finish from the morihei looks like. The takeda bevel is small so it’s hard for me to see.



I would love to do this, but, unfortunately, I don’t own a wide-bevel knife yet. Something I want to change...!


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## Colonel Mustard (Jan 3, 2020)

I just want to say thanks for taking the time to do this. It's apprciated.


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## Kai (Jan 9, 2020)

Excellent write up, thanks for this! Great photographs go a long way and it's clear you have a strong sense of and capable vocabulary to discuss what you like about the stones. Good stuff all around.

I've been using a Morihei 1k and 4k for the last month now. I'm far less eloquent in my ability to describe what I like, but found my proof in the usage. At 1k, I've found myself grabbing more frequently for my Chosera 800. I'm more familiar with it, certainly, but simply like the feel more. At 4k, the Morihei feels like something special. It gives a decent polish but a really excellent edge. Very good bite and, until I get some jnats, will be my finisher for the kitchen. Point being, great stone that will get the job done and compares very favoribly to the (very strong) competition.

I have no experience with the 6k, but have seen nothing but positive impressions from members of this forum. Eager to see what others say.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jan 10, 2020)

Kai said:


> Excellent write up, thanks for this! Great photographs go a long way and it's clear you have a strong sense of and capable vocabulary to discuss what you like about the stones. Good stuff all around.
> 
> I've been using a Morihei 1k and 4k for the last month now. I'm far less eloquent in my ability to describe what I like, but found my proof in the usage. At 1k, I've found myself grabbing more frequently for my Chosera 800. I'm more familiar with it, certainly, but simply like the feel more. At 4k, the Morihei feels like something special. It gives a decent polish but a really excellent edge. Very good bite and, until I get some jnats, will be my finisher for the kitchen. Point being, great stone that will get the job done and compares very favoribly to the (very strong) competition.



Kai, thank you for your kind words! I am glad you enjoyed my first impressions thread.
Also, it seems that you feel similarly about some of these beautiful stones.
I would be curious to know which knives you tested on them? Did you try to achieve a Kasumi finish? Also, did you use the stones with some kind of slurry stone (diamond plate/nagura) to bring up some mud or not? For me, that made a huge difference!


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## lumo (Jan 10, 2020)

Great, thanks for the write up! Coincidentally, I emailed CKC for a recommendation/alternative to play with instead of my JNS red aoto just yesterday.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jan 10, 2020)

lumo said:


> Great, thanks for the write up! Coincidentally, I emailed CKC for a recommendation/alternative to play with instead of my JNS red aoto just yesterday.



Thanks! That Red Aoto is definitely on my wishlist. Could be a nice follow-up to my King 800 for Kasumi. What are your impressions with the JNS red aoto?


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## labor of love (Jan 10, 2020)

You guys are killing me. I didn’t realize I needed a morihei 4K but apparently I do. Haha


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## kayman67 (Jan 10, 2020)




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## Hiomakivi (Jan 11, 2020)

Very helpful review and I have to agree to almost all of your thoughts and findings. I have been using Morihei 1K,4K,6K, and 12K since March/2019, and after summer, these stones have been the most used stones at my shop. I do sharpen customer knives professionally. I have not received my 500 and 8K yet. My latest stone shipment from Tokyo is on the way to EU, and after that with big hopes, I'm very curious to see can 500 replace Naniwa Pro 400 as it has been my de fact stone when I start to make dull knives great again. I have found 6K to be an excellent stone, but for some reason, as 4K is currently my #1 stone, I feel that 8K the one where I will jump next. 

Anyway, there is a lot of excellent stones available as today I used the Shapton Kuromaku series from 120 up till 8K to make chipped VG10 greate again. This was a task that Morihei could not have done


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## labor of love (Jan 11, 2020)

So I have a question. Is the morihei 4K and 6k a no soak splash and go or do you guys soak it for like a minute before use?


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## Hiomakivi (Jan 11, 2020)

labor of love said:


> So I have a question. Is the morihei 4K and 6k a no soak splash and go or do you guys soak it for like a minute before use?



Those are splash and go. You just show them some water and break the surface with Atoma or any lower grit stone and you are ready to start.


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## kevin (Jan 11, 2020)

labor of love said:


> So I have a question. Is the morihei 4K and 6k a no soak splash and go or do you guys soak it for like a minute before use?




They're splash and go but I still soak them for a minute or two as they're quite thirsty.


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## zizirex (Jan 12, 2020)

labor of love said:


> So I have a question. Is the morihei 4K and 6k a no soak splash and go or do you guys soak it for like a minute before use?


depend on where you live, it gets dry really fast. it needs to be soaked about 1 minute for the first time use (like shapton pro). Since the weather here is so dry, if I didn't use it for 3 days, it will dry up and need to be soak or run it under your water sink again. it doesn't take long and the binder is good that it doesn't crack (like Imanishi)


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## zizirex (Jan 12, 2020)

Hiomakivi said:


> Very helpful review and I have to agree to almost all of your thoughts and findings. I have been using Morihei 1K,4K,6K, and 12K since March/2019, and after summer, these stones have been the most used stones at my shop. I do sharpen customer knives professionally. I have not received my 500 and 8K yet. My latest stone shipment from Tokyo is on the way to EU, and after that with big hopes, I'm very curious to see can 500 replace Naniwa Pro 400 as it has been my de fact stone when I start to make dull knives great again. I have found 6K to be an excellent stone, but for some reason, as 4K is currently my #1 stone, I feel that 8K the one where I will jump next.
> 
> Anyway, there is a lot of excellent stones available as today I used the Shapton Kuromaku series from 120 up till 8K to make chipped VG10 greate again. This was a task that Morihei could not have done



I thought 8K is the least favourite.. the contrast is so dull, it's better on the 12k. I don't know about the edge quality since I already have Karasu 9k it's a little bit overlap.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jan 12, 2020)

labor of love said:


> So I have a question. Is the morihei 4K and 6k a no soak splash and go or do you guys soak it for like a minute before use?



My experience is that especially the 4K stone can be used entirely splash & go. I just add some water, wait for a couple of seconds, add another splash of water, and then I‘m ready to go.


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## big D (Jan 12, 2020)

Thank you for taking the time for the write up.
Appreciated
D.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jan 12, 2020)

big D said:


> Thank you for taking the time for the write up.
> Appreciated
> D.



Absolutely, I am happy to share my thought and hopefully spark some joy!


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## Kai (Jan 14, 2020)

Agreed, 4k works great for me as a pure splash and go. Definitely benefits from a little atoma-generated slurry per recommendation by Kitchen Samurai.



Hiomakivi said:


> I used the Shapton Kuromaku series from 120 up till 8K to make chipped VG10 greate again. This was a task that Morihei could not have done


 Is this because the Morihei series is missing low grits or do they not play nicely with VG10? Have only used with carbons at present.


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## Hiomakivi (Jan 14, 2020)

Kai said:


> Agreed, 4k works great for me as a pure splash and go. Definitely benefits from a little atoma-generated slurry per recommendation by Kitchen Samurai.
> 
> Is this because the Morihei series is missing low grits or do they not play nicely with VG10? Have only used with carbons at present.



I was repairing a chipped Kai Nakiri and wanted to test my new Kuromaku 120; typically I use my Naniwa workhorse to fix damaged knives


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jan 14, 2020)

Hiomakivi said:


> I was repairing a chipped Kai Nakiri and wanted to test my new Kuromaku 120; typically I use my Naniwa workhorse to fix damaged knives
> 
> 
> View attachment 68794



That‘s awesome, I would love to have such a horizontal wheel...!
How did the 120 work for you?


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## Hiomakivi (Jan 15, 2020)

Kitchen-Samurai said:


> How did the 120 work for you?



I had not previously used such a low grit as Kuromaku 120, so I did not know what to expect. I have to admit I was at least a little bit surprised to find out how fast it was and how easy it was to work with. I can recommend it to anyone who needs to fix knives.


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## childermass (Jan 18, 2020)

Let’s hijack this thread for a short while, I think this fits here nicely.

This is only a first impression too.

Got my stones this week and had time to try some polishing. I believe Labour of love asked about the finish on a wide bevel and I thought maybe I can show something. The blade in the pictures needs a lot more attention to be pretty, the factory scratches are really deep and there are still lots of low spots. Also I am not a polishing pro, actually I’m too lazy for that, but I think I can give you an idea about the finish they are leaving.

I will have to agree that the color of the 500 sucks [emoji4]





Finish is not too bad after raising some slurry:





The 1k makes a brighter finish:









And finally the 4k finishes with a semi mirror on core steel but that’s hard to capture:





Sorry for the crappy pictures.
Feeling is nice on all three stones, especially the 4k is buttery smooth.


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## labor of love (Jan 18, 2020)

You’re speaking my language here. Those finishes look great too. 
Thanks for the photos.


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## Kai (Jan 18, 2020)

I have seen several photos online of much whiter colored 500 and 1k stones. Do these actually exist? That 500 is.... dark.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jan 19, 2020)

childermass said:


> Let’s hijack this thread for a short while, I think this fits here nicely.



Thanks for adding your thoughts and some wide-bevel pictures, that makes this thread a bit more comprehensive!

The 500 continues to grow on me, it works great and doesn’t dish too quickly. Still, a lighter color would have been nice!


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## labor of love (Feb 15, 2020)

I’ve reread this thread maybe a dozen times at this point trying to decide if I want the morihei 4K or the morihei 6k or maybe both.
I did recently let go of my chosera 3k opting for a 4K stone instead. I just don’t like finishing with something lower than 4K. 
If anybody prefers the morihei 6k over the 4K I’d love to hear your feedback. Also, if anyone has a 6k and can break down how it compares to other 6k stones I would appreciate it.
At the moment I’m leaning towards picking up the 4K but I’m still undecided.
Thoughts?


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## zizirex (Feb 16, 2020)

labor of love said:


> I’ve reread this thread maybe a dozen times at this point trying to decide if I want the morihei 4K or the morihei 6k or maybe both.
> I did recently let go of my chosera 3k opting for a 4K stone instead. I just don’t like finishing with something lower than 4K.
> If anybody prefers the morihei 6k over the 4K I’d love to hear your feedback. Also, if anyone has a 6k and can break down how it compares to other 6k stones I would appreciate it.
> At the moment I’m leaning towards picking up the 4K but I’m still undecided.
> Thoughts?


I have the 6k, and it is still my fav finishing stone. My comparison of it with other 6k stone is with King and Arashiyama, King 6k is pretty fice finish that like actually, but it's so slow cutting and dishes like crazy. Arashiyama is a nice stone *IF* working correctly. Arashiyama cuts pretty fast and leaves a nice finish and contrast on carbon steel, but not so much on stainless. the reason I said if working properly, is that this stone is on the grey area between Soaking and Splash and go, it will soak up when you use it after a while, easy to clog up when it's too dry and very easy to crack (like other Imanishi stones..). Arashiyama could get really nice edge quality but it takes longer than other stones (you need the surface to be well hydrated and the mud has been consistently released to help polish the edge).

the reason why it's my fave stones is that it cuts fast, it doesn't dish like crazy, the tactile feeling is kinda nice medium stones, it creates a very nice contrast & polish, and have a slightly toothier edge than the Arashiyama (Good enough for fatty meat cutting).

The 4k leaves a nicer contrast(I remember it produces hazier and darker Jigane) than the 6K, but I can't tell about the edge quality.


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## labor of love (Feb 16, 2020)

I already own an arashiyama, maybe I should just grab a 4K morihei if the 6k and arashiyama serve similar purposes.


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## zizirex (Feb 16, 2020)

labor of love said:


> I already own an arashiyama, maybe I should just grab a 4K morihei if the 6k and arashiyama serve similar purposes.


Go for it then, My arashiyama was cracked and split into 2 pieces. I managed to epoxy it on a piece of glass. that's why I bought it. I was going to buy the 4k this month, but I kinda fell into JNats Rabbit Hole...


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## labor of love (Mar 1, 2020)

Okay, after much internal debate I’m going to get a morihei 4K, the question now for me is do I grab a morihei 1k as well or go get a chosera 800? They are basically the same price.
Already owned the chosera 800, already know it’s awesome, but I like trying new stuff so morihei 1k is tempting.
Anybody used both morihei 1k and chosera 800?


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Mar 1, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Okay, after much internal debate I’m going to get a morihei 4K, the question now for me is do I grab a morihei 1k as well or go get a chosera 800? They are basically the same price.
> Already owned the chosera 800, already know it’s awesome, but I like trying new stuff so morihei 1k is tempting.
> Anybody used both morihei 1k and chosera 800?



As you can see above, I used both. What do you want it for? Sharpening the edge or finishing the secondary bevel? Single bevel or double bevel knives? Anything specific you wanted to know?


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## labor of love (Mar 1, 2020)

I don’t know how I forgot you already compared chosera 800 to morihei. I’ve read this thread a dozen times.
Yeah like 99% of the time I would use the stone for edge sharpening, shapton pro is already my go to mid grit but I’d like to mix it up with something completely different.
Sounds like morihei is more well rounded than chosera here-so morihei may be my winner.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Mar 2, 2020)

labor of love said:


> I don’t know how I forgot you already compared chosera 800 to morihei. I’ve read this thread a dozen times.
> Yeah like 99% of the time I would use the stone for edge sharpening, shapton pro is already my go to mid grit but I’d like to mix it up with something completely different.
> Sounds like morihei is more well rounded than chosera here-so morihei may be my winner.



Naturally, it is hard to predict which stone another person will like best. Hence, I can certainly understand that you want to try out other mid-grit stones. Personally, my priority is tactile feel, and, secondly, feedback. I am less concerned with speed, and, unless for specific applications, how the finish looks. The Morihei stone is a nice thick, semi splash&go stone which might excel with single/wide-bevel knives. However, this is a speculation from my side as I do not own true single bevel knives. For actual edge sharpening I prefer the pro 800. If the pro 800 still was made in a full 25mm thickness, and no cracking issues existed, I’d call it my all-time favorite mid-grit stone. And even with these issues, it’s still among my absolute favorites.


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## panda (Mar 10, 2020)

does the 4k load at all?


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Mar 11, 2020)

panda said:


> does the 4k load at all?



I haven‘t had any issues with loading so far. Hope this helps!


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## kevin (Mar 14, 2020)

Here's a few close up photos of the Morihei 500
https://imgur.com/a/pLlKnLg


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## josemartinlopez (Jun 28, 2020)

Kitchen-Samurai said:


> my priority is tactile feel, and, secondly, feedback. I am less concerned with speed, and, unless for specific applications, how the finish looks.


Kitchen-Samurai, I think I have the same priorities as you though think I may decide later that I want speed for quick touch ups before or after using a knife. Do you have further thoughts six months later, as you posted your amazingly detailed posts when the stones were brand new?

I'm trying to decide what to buy for a pair of first stones and am just confused between the excellent choices out there (Morihei, Naniwa, Shapton and Gesshin). I've only decided that I want splash and go.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jun 29, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Kitchen-Samurai, I think I have the same priorities as you though think I may decide later that I want speed for quick touch ups before or after using a knife. Do you have further thoughts six months later, as you posted your amazingly detailed posts when the stones were brand new?
> 
> I'm trying to decide what to buy for a pair of first stones and am just confused between the excellent choices out there (Morihei, Naniwa, Shapton and Gesshin). I've only decided that I want splash and go.



Excellent follow-up question that i am happy to respond to. To sum it up very briefly: a) I still stand behind my initial posts, and b) I've kept the 4k, but sold the 500 and 1k.

Here are my thoughts for your case: If tactile feel and feedback are your main priorities, you may be better off with soaking stones. A great stone/stone set as e.g. the Gesshin soakers or the Cerax/Rika line can give you this. And many soakers can be stored in water permanently, so they're ready when you are. Just keep them in a small plastic container filled with water.
If you are set on slash&go stones, though, you'll need to make another decision. Do you want stones that still give excellent feel and feedback? In that case, you should look at the Naniwa Pro stones (esp. 800 & 3k). However, they are quite expensive and also delicate (they often develop cracks), so I wouldn't consider them beginner-friendly. If you don't want a delicate stone, you can look at Shapton Glass/Pro, and maybe Nanohone. However, the general consensus is that they are not quite as good in terms of tactile feel and feedback as the best soaking stones. 

Also, I generally believe that a softer stone is better to learn on, since it clearly shows you when your are off angle (gouging into the stone). 

My advice: if you can live with a soaking stone, go for the Gesshin 1000 XL or the Cerax 1000. Buy only one stone, learn the skill, and take it from there. If you can't get your knives sharp, it is not the stone, it is lack of skill. Those stones will give you excellent feedback and tactile feel, they are economical (at least when you don't have to import them), will last many years, work great with most kitchen knifes (double and single bevel), and are not prone to cracking.
Enjoy the journey!


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## josemartinlopez (Jun 29, 2020)

Kitchen-Samurai said:


> many soakers can be stored in water permanently


Which ones are these? Also, if one goes the Naniwa Pro route, can I clarify why you recommend the 800 over the 1000 or 2000 to start with?


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jun 29, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Which ones are these? Also, if one goes the Naniwa Pro route, can I clarify why you recommend the 800 over the 1000 or 2000 to start with?


Usually, the manufacturer or distributor will advise on this. The Gesshin soakers for instance can be permasoaked. I have also permasoaked the Cerax 1000 for months without any issue, even though some people feel differently about this.
The 800 & 3k are usually considered as the best stones in the lineup, and I tend to agree. I have tested 400, 800, 1k, 3k, 5k.


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## josemartinlopez (Jun 29, 2020)

Thanks! And using the 800 as your medium stone over 1000 or 2000 is perfectly fine and that's not too low a grit?


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## labor of love (Jun 29, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Thanks! And using the 800 as your medium stone over 1000 or 2000 is perfectly fine and that's not too low a grit?


800 is totally fine to use as a mid grit. Infact today I went Chosera 800 to Oouchi with no problems.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jun 29, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Thanks! And using the 800 as your medium stone over 1000 or 2000 is perfectly fine and that's not too low a grit?


Absolutely, the 800 would be a perfect mid-grit stone. In fact, most people consider the Naniwa grit rating system a bit off, and would rate the 800 more like a 1k or 1200. Don't get too hung up on the numbers though, the magic happens with your hands and arms, and the stones are less important than most people think (and this is coming from someone owning way too many stones...).


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## kayman67 (Jun 29, 2020)

I disagree. The right stones for what you want or need, will makes things a lot easier, better and sometimes can even be essential to get the job done.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jun 29, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> I disagree. The right stones for what you want or need, will makes things a lot easier, better and sometimes can even be essential to get the job done.



I am with you on that the right stones make things easier, better, and can sometimes even be essential to get the job done. That's partly why I have so many of them. However, especially when one tries to give advice to someone starting this hobby, I think it is crucial to stress that technique is the most important thing. If you buy any decent sharpening stone/stone set, but you can't get your kitchen knives sharp, it's not the stones...it's your technique. That's the point I wanted to make, because I have seen too many people getting this wrong. Including myself.  Cheers!


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## kayman67 (Jun 30, 2020)

Even for this, I'm one of the guys considering that some stones are better suited than others to form proper techniques.


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## ian (Jun 30, 2020)

Maybe it’s better advice to let Jose start to learn this for himself, tho. If you tell someone “you need 12 stones” at the beginning, that’s too intimidating. And the person may not be experienced enough to recognize in use that one stone is better suited for a certain task, either. I think telling someone to start with one stone is the best option. Then when they get fed up and feel their system is inefficient they can get more.

That said, @kayman67 is right that if you do a lot of sharpening you’ll eventually want more.


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## Logan A. (Jul 21, 2021)

Hiomakivi said:


> Very helpful review and I have to agree to almost all of your thoughts and findings. I have been using Morihei 1K,4K,6K, and 12K since March/2019, and after summer, these stones have been the most used stones at my shop. I do sharpen customer knives professionally. I have not received my 500 and 8K yet. My latest stone shipment from Tokyo is on the way to EU, and after that with big hopes, I'm very curious to see can 500 replace Naniwa Pro 400 as it has been my de fact stone when I start to make dull knives great again. I have found 6K to be an excellent stone, but for some reason, as 4K is currently my #1 stone, I feel that 8K the one where I will jump next.
> 
> Anyway, there is a lot of excellent stones available as today I used the Shapton Kuromaku series from 120 up till 8K to make chipped VG10 greate again. This was a task that Morihei could not have done


I know this is an old thread, but I am currently looking at the morihei stones. Do you find that jumping from 1k - 4K works to erase scratches, or would you need another stone in between?


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## Sicknote (Mar 14, 2022)

My 1000 morihei drinks a lot of water. Is this normal? At some point it stops drinking and the water stay on top. I need to put water on it maybw 10 Times or so.


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