# Knife Makers killing it with stainless steel



## Delpo (Jun 6, 2017)

I have just about given up with carbon steel. It is impossible for me to keep them surface rust free in the Caribbean humidity and salinity. Have tried everything. Having said that, what knife makers are doing great pieces with stainless steel? I have a couple of HHH and a couple of Martell and am very happy with them. Others?


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## dwalker (Jun 6, 2017)

Sakai Takayuki


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 6, 2017)

Robin Dalman, Devin Thomas, Ian Rogers (Haburn Knives), Butch Harner, Mario Ingoglia (Ingoglia Cutlery), Cris Anderson (Scorpion Forge) - just to name a few that I have had the opportunity to own. 

Rick


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## daveb (Jun 6, 2017)

I'm a fan of stainless and stainless clad. Butch, Ian, Marko, Devin make some favorites.

For off the shelf knives I like Ginsanko a lot. Tadasuna INOX, Tanaka G, list goes on. SKD is a a semi stainless (?) that shows up in some nice knives. I don't like AEBL in production knives but in the hands of the above makers it can be great.

Rick - Good to see you here, hope we see more of you.


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## kevpenbanc (Jun 6, 2017)

Chadd Smith from Tristone and Mert Tansu, both from Australia.


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## zoze (Jun 7, 2017)

Tilman Leder. He uses Niolox.


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## spoiledbroth (Jun 7, 2017)

If you're looking for something that won't break the bank, but offers decent sharpenability I would recommend from my first hand experience the Sukenari Gingami 3 stamped knives from JCK... I should note they're a little beefier at the spine than a laser.


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## labor of love (Jun 7, 2017)

zoze said:


> Tilman Leder. He uses Niolox.



+1.
He really doesn't get enough praise.


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## Godslayer (Jun 7, 2017)

TAKAMURA :viking: I have yet to find a japanese smith who can out do him when it comes to powdered stainless, I am fairly certain 99% of US makers would also fall short against him. saying that I am a takamura fan boy lol


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## Moooza (Jun 7, 2017)

Kurosaki R2 is fantastic for the price I think.


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## panda (Jun 7, 2017)

before giving up on carbon, at least do stainless cladded carbon core knife. or try heiji semi-stainless as the next level down .


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## pleue (Jun 7, 2017)

I have an all stainless kit for traveling and working near/on the ocean. It has: suisin IH, harner, dt, tanaka, Mac, Mario, catchside, konosuke, Tillman, takamura, and dalman. Wish I bought a haburn when I still could have, I helped convince someone to buy one of his honesuki at a knife show and I should have bought it myself.


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## labor of love (Jun 7, 2017)

pleue said:


> I have an all stainless kit for traveling and working near/on the ocean. It has: suisin IH, harner, dt, tanaka, Mac, Mario, catchside, konosuke, Tillman, takamura, and dalman. Wish I bought a haburn when I still could have, I helped convince someone to buy one of his honesuki at a knife show and I should have bought it myself.



That's great. But let's hear some opinions about those blades &#128512;


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## Nemo (Jun 7, 2017)

In stainless, I have used Shiro Kamo R2, Ryusen SG2 and Akifusa SRS15. All have been easy enough to make quite sharp and have very good edge retention. All of the knives have been a pleasure to use. Tojiro HSPS is also easy to make sharp but the F&F is only OK. Needs spine & choil work badly.

In semistainless, I have used Gihei HAP40, carbonext and Yoshikane SKD12. All sharpen easily, especially SKD12. HAP40 has extremely long edge retention. SKD still quite long. Carbonext... OK. I recently had to deal with a HAP40 (ss clad) that had been left soaking overnight. The core steel was heavily patina'd but not rusted per se. It did need to be sharpened, so presumably had some micro-corrosion at the edge.

I have one of Chadd Smith's Tristone Niolox on order. Quite keen to test it out.

My Dalman AEBL came very sharp. I haven't yet sharpened it. It's a brilliant knife- quite thin but has brilliant food release.


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## Matus (Jun 7, 2017)

How much do you intend to invest?


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## labor of love (Jun 7, 2017)

Delpo said:


> I have just about given up with carbon steel. It is impossible for me to keep them surface rust free in the Caribbean humidity and salinity. Have tried everything. Having said that, what knife makers are doing great pieces with stainless steel? I have a couple of HHH and a couple of Martell and am very happy with them. Others?



Speaking as a fellow carbon lover that also lives in a rather humid climate myself I'm wondering if you've considered KU knives much? If that doesn't solve the problem then stainless clad? Even a good mono carbon can help with the reactivity issue quite a lot if you're getting fed up w San mai reactivity crazyness.


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## Matus (Jun 7, 2017)

Of course - Itinomonn StainLess knives are fantastic. Very good grind and F&F - excellent value knives.


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## Delpo (Jun 7, 2017)

Matus said:


> How much do you intend to invest?



Thanks to all for the comments. Keep them coming! 

Pardon my lack of clarity on the original post. The frustration seeped through after having to send 10 knives to be cleaned for the nth time. When I meant stainless I meant all different options including clad, semi, and powdered. 

In regards to budget I'll be selling a group of carbon knives from Rader, Kato, Haburn, Scorpion, Tansu, and Catcheside to fund the new ones.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jun 7, 2017)

Semi stainless Gengetsu. In stock @ JKI


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## strumke (Jun 7, 2017)

Looking forward to that BST!



Delpo said:


> Thanks to all for the comments. Keep them coming!
> 
> Pardon my lack of clarity on the original post. The frustration seeped through after having to send 10 knives to be cleaned for the nth time. When I meant stainless I meant all different options including clad, semi, and powdered.
> 
> In regards to budget I'll be selling a group of carbon knives from Rader, Kato, Haburn, Scorpion, Tansu, and Catcheside to fund the new ones.


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## MontezumaBoy (Jun 7, 2017)

+1 Have all of these makers knives and enjoy the all


Pensacola Tiger said:


> Devin Thomas, Ian Rogers (Haburn Knives), Butch Harner, Mario Ingoglia (Ingoglia Cutlery), Cris Anderson (Scorpion Forge)



I would add Randy & Marko as well.

Steels for those knives;

AEBL from Devin, Ian, Cris, Randy and Marko
CPM-154 from Butch and Mario
XHP from Mario

Also have JKI (Broida) Kagekiyo Ginsan and the Gesshin Ginga (?) Line - F&F great Kagekiyo is the higher end of his line of course

Konosuke in ZDP-189 (solid) amazing knife but no longer available but any blade with that at it's core would be excellent (IMO)

Clad knives;

JKI Gengetsu Semi & White / both are great knives with excellent SS cladding
Wakui - SS Clad (might be a bit reactive though as it streaks a little)

PM me if you want any other info / pic's


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## daddy yo yo (Jun 7, 2017)

Dave Martell does CPM-154!


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## Delpo (Jun 7, 2017)

daddy yo yo said:


> Dave Martell does CPM-154!



I have a couple of Dave's knives in CPM154 and love them! Just ordered 2 more from him last week.


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## rick alen (Jun 7, 2017)

Niolox is a nicely tough high-wear steel with great stain resistance.

Cosmo Design has a number of Crucible's PM steels available, like S30V and S90V. Even does a true layer-steel/damascus with 20CV (similar to the super wear resistant M390).

Number of good off the shelf R2 makers, you can throw in Shiro Kamo and Ryusin, but you will notice some slight staining with R2. 

I really like SRS-15, Holds its sharp much better than R2, but this one also you'd have to buy off the shelf, and preferably from JKI.

I'd like to try something in HAP40 but the selection is limited. Don't like the wide-bevel of the Giehie, the Kohetsu would also be a project knife.


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## LucasFur (Jun 7, 2017)

I gifted my mother-in-law a takamura R2 red handle. she tosses it in the diswasher, leaves in the sink wet, you name it. its been about a year, no discoloration, rust etc. sides of the knife are scratched to like crazy though.


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## malexthekid (Jun 7, 2017)

Not too mention most of the guys you are looking to off blades from do stainless or clad blades so you should reach out to them if it is purely the corrosion issue that is making you sell


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## pleue (Jun 7, 2017)

labor of love said:


> That's great. But let's hear some opinions about those blades &#128512;




Sure thing:

Suisin IH:
210 petty: one of the easiest stainless to deburr that I've ever seen. Sharpens up beautifully and has some room for error if that makes sense (was one of the easiest knives to get super sharp when I first started sharpening.) 
180 deba: glorious knife. Their single bevels are a cut above their double bevels IMO. Best all around deba I own. Silky on stones, doesn't drag at all.
240 mioroshi: see above
Konosuke 300 ginsan yanagi: Hasn't gotten much use so I can't really comment to be honest. 
Harner scalpel Cpm: never sharpened so I can't speak on it, but it hasn't needed it. Butch's grinds are crazy, super thin yet robust. I also have a nakiri from him in XHP.
DT ITK 270 AEBL: some say overrated, but it's a wonderful knife. His AEB-L heat treat is the best I've seen and I've used some really crappy ones. Deburrs wonderfully. 
Catshide 140 petty CPM?: Haven't sharpened it, edge retention is great, lives at home mostly and does a wonderful job.
Dalman 140 and 230 AEBL: Heat treat is great, edge doesn't live as long as my DT but that may be heat treat or it may be how thin these damn things are. These two are very early dalman's so things may have changed. 
Tilman Niolox 180 nakiri: I think everyone should try a Tilman. Very refined, great edge retention, sharpens like my suisin (very well). 
Mario cpm 270 gyutohiki: Sharpens really well, feels softer on stones than most stainless but holds up well. Edge retention is great though it's the type of knife that remains super useable in not the sharpest condition. One of my all time favorite knifes. 
Takamura r2 Damascus 270: Edge retention is very good and it will hold a really really fine/acute edge. Has some heft behind the thin edge which makes it a very fun knife to prep with. Responds well to the JKI diamond set. Initial edge was a bit chippy. Fun to sharpen for r2.
Mac bread: great bread knife, good crusty protein slicer. Have only stropped on stones.
Tanaka ginsan 270: underrated even though people love it. Great all around gyuto. I haven't so far seen a bad heat treat on ginsan. Very underrated stainless.


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## DaveInMesa (Jun 7, 2017)

rick alen said:


> I really like SRS-15, Holds its sharp much better than R2, but this one also you'd have to buy off the shelf, and preferably from JKI.



If you mean www.japaneseknifeimports.com, searching for SRS-15 yielded no results. Just FYI.


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## Matus (Jun 7, 2017)

DaveInMesa said:


> If you mean www.japaneseknifeimports.com, searching for SRS-15 yielded no results. Just FYI.



At least some of the knives made from PM steel on JKI webpage are from SRS-15 as far as I know. Sometimes the exact steel type is not revealed.


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## Delpo (Jun 7, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Not too mention most of the guys you are looking to off blades from do stainless or clad blades so you should reach out to them if it is purely the corrosion issue that is making you sell



That is part of the plan. Thanks!


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## Barmoley (Jun 7, 2017)

Jon's Kagero line is SRS-15 core. Very good knives by all accounts.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 7, 2017)

panda said:


> before giving up on carbon, at least do stainless cladded carbon core knife. or try heiji semi-stainless as the next level down .



Once a Carbon Junkie:rofl2: My mag block these days is a mixed plate. Tosagata 115mm paring white steel, Carter 142mm white steel, Kochi stainless clad K tip.(blade I use the most). Stainless Takamura R2 & Sugimoto CM 3040 cleaver.


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## ThEoRy (Jun 7, 2017)

Tanaka R2.


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## daddy yo yo (Jun 8, 2017)

DaveInMesa said:


> If you mean www.japaneseknifeimports.com, searching for SRS-15 yielded no results. Just FYI.



That should be the GESSHIN KAGERO line...


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## rick alen (Jun 9, 2017)

Yup the Kagero, shouldn't have assumed so much foreknowledge from others. And as far as sharpening goes, SRS-15 is right up there with the easiest sharpening stainless's.

I feel R2 will take a keener edge and that's why I like it for sushi-level cutting, but for board work that doesn't matter as with the first wack you're going to loose that shaving edge anyway.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jun 9, 2017)

Rick found with a little work on polishing stones can get very sharp edges on SRS15 & R2. Both have good edge retention, but in production Kit. with plastic boards sharpness not as good as wood.


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## rick alen (Jun 10, 2017)

keithsaltydog said:


> Rick found with a little work on polishing stones can get very sharp edges on SRS15 & R2. Both have good edge retention, but in production Kit. with plastic boards sharpness not as good as wood.



Yes these steels are actually easy to get sharp, I strop in the microbevel and that gets you the keen edge. I don't have a Tanaka Ironwood to compare it to, but my Takamura R2 Migaki takes a significant hit in edge retention when compared to a Geshin Kagero in SRS-15.


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## richard (Jun 11, 2017)

rick alen said:


> Yes these steels are actually easy to get sharp, I strop in the microbevel and that gets you the keen edge. I don't have a Tanaka Ironwood to compare it to, but my Takamura R2 Migaki takes a significant hit in edge retention when compared to a Geshin Kagero in SRS-15.



How much do you think this is due to steel, and how much due to different geometry, weight, slight differences in technique being used, possibly edge length of these two different knives? 

E.g. to exaggerate the situation to illustrate my point, if I took a santoku and a 240 from the same maker/line and used them both for veggie cutting, the santoku will dull faster because the stress is being concentrated in a smaller length of edge steel.

I haven't done any testing to get meaningful side by side comparisons of the R2 knives in my collection, but I can imagine my Takamura R2 Migaki feeling dull faster due to having a less robust edge and not having much heft say compared to a Takamura Pro or Ryusen Blazen.


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## rick alen (Jun 12, 2017)

Both knives have been ground thin (Takamura Migaki came that way, Geshin Kagero got some work), both are sharpened to 10deg/side them MB at 15. At that spec SRS-15 just laughs at cutting boards, but [my] R2 will microchip rather quickly. I seem to get a keener edge with R2, so I use it for cutting in-hand, which I do quite a bit off. Both will still cut pretty well for a good while after microchipping appears, but SRS-15 holds its sharp significantly longer so far as I've experienced, and then also holds a serviceable edge better. Others have said R2 looses its initial sharp rather quickly, echoing my experience there.

Again though, from the personal perspective, keep in mind this is the only R2 knife I've used, and I don't have a benchmark like the Tanaka Ironwood to measure against, or any others for that matter.

BTW, I've never got any stainless as sharp as what Jon put on the Kagero, oh but at least I can complain that I don't have anything like a Geshin 8K to work with. We'll see what I can do once I finally put a diamond loaded strop to use.


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