# What happened to the popularity of these knives?



## phasedweasel (Dec 19, 2012)

Reading through some other threads, I was wondering what happened to some knives that used to be old staples, when I first started reading various boards. So, what happened? Did we learn more? Did the knife just not live up over the years? Did new, better stuff in the price range (maybe CarboNext, maybe Gesshin, maybe Konosuke) appear and crowd it out? Or is it just the case of fashion always changing, as fashions do?

The knives:

*1: Tadatsuna*: This used to be listed every time Susin Inox was, as an almost equivalent knife. Now I haven't seen the name in years, and in fact it's mention in the "great cutter" thread got me thinking.

*2: Yoshikane*: People used to sing the praises of the edge-retention of SKD, now I almost never see it mentioned. I have an EE SKD 240 mm Yoshi gyuto, but am somewhat dissatisfied with its thickness. Is part of why people left it? The huge price increases its seen on EE? The san mai construction?

*3: Blazen*: Wow, this knife was like the most popular thing ever on the KF boards maybe seven years ago. New steels push it out?

*Hattori FH*: People keep selling these. VG-10 just get out-shinied by the new stainless western handle lasers (Konosuke), and the new quite affordable entry level benchmark knife of CarboNext?

This last one may not belong on the list, but no one seems to push Hiromoto AS then. The name still comes up, but did people get tired of the F/F issues and the existence of better AS knives crowd it out?


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## Timthebeaver (Dec 19, 2012)

No longer esoteric/novel enough. Tad is expensive compared to other Sakai layzors. Yoshikane kasumi favoured over skd hammered now.


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## Lefty (Dec 19, 2012)

Funny you should bring this up. I've been thinking about cyclical the market is. I can't help but think Tads are every bit as awesome as they ever were. Stefan still loves his Blazens...I just about bought a Hattori FH, yesterday. I dunno...it's just how the market goes. The secret is to love what you love.


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## James (Dec 19, 2012)

The aritsugu a type has disappeared too


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## CompE (Dec 19, 2012)

Tadatsuna seems to have closed up shop. Their website http://www.itkitchenknife.com/ has been out of commission for many months, or has it been years now? A few months ago I tried send an e-mail to Hideki San, and it was bounced. I've seen threads ask what happened to them with no answers.


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## phasedweasel (Dec 19, 2012)

James said:


> The aritsugu a type has disappeared too



Oh man, Aritsugu! Just the mention of that makes me miss KCMA. We should all get A-types and sharpen them with massively asymmetric, convex bevels :sad0:


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## James (Dec 19, 2012)

With a ~10 degree included angle!


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Dec 19, 2012)

At one time I had a Tad Honyaki custom made for me, I miss it. I still have a petty, INOX, that is simply awesome. It can't weigh more than an ounce or two.


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## mainaman (Dec 19, 2012)

I think yoshikane is well in demand now.


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## Duckfat (Dec 19, 2012)

Ikkanshi-tad is simply an awesome knife. I'm thankful every time I use them I bought when I did. Their shop closed after the Japanese disaster but I have no idea why. I tried to contact Hideki as well with no luck. He was awesome to work with. Some of the sharpest knives OOB I've ever seen. I have a Inox western handled petty, 185mm gyuto and a 270 suj. My only regret is that I didn't order a WA Gyuto as well.

Dave


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## stevenStefano (Dec 19, 2012)

I think some of it is cyclical but it is also partly that knives get replaced in visibility by something that is just better and or cheaper. I think the fact that there are so many new custom makers recently who offer amazing value has made some knives less desirable. For some of the more expensive ones, you could go custom for very little more, or sometimes even less.


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## Chefdog (Dec 19, 2012)

I finally settled on a Hattori FH gyuto a few months ago after buying and selling several "better" knives with the "best" steel, including a Kono HD. I seriously doubt that any of the knives you mentioned are any less effective than they were when people were lining up to buy them. I certainly have no complaints about my Hattori's performance. It fits well into what I like in a gyuto, while the Kono and the others were every bit as good quality but just didn't meet my personal preferences. 

A lot of the guys here enjoy finding something new and chasing that next best knife as part of the hobby. Luckily, I think we're all better off for it, as we now are in a position of having quite an impressive number of excellent knives to choose from that might have never been known had no one ever searched them out.


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## ecchef (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm gonna dig up the SKD and bring it to work today. Don't know why I stopped using it....always liked it.


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## mpukas (Dec 19, 2012)

Still love my Blazen 270 - one of my favorite knives. It's got everything that we talk about a good knife should have. It it had all of these things before we've hashed them out (not that I've been aorund that long...). The only things I have to say is I prefer a flatter profile - it's dead flat at the heel, but turns up a fair towards the tip; and the edge retention isn't great - a bit tricky to get super sharp, and it doesn't last at all. 

I sold my Hattori FH a while ago simply becasue I wasn't using it, as I prefered some other knives and I wanted to try others as well. I do miss it sometimes. Overall, it's one of the most beautiful knives, but there are a few things I find that could use an upgrade - the spin and choil and square, the grind is dead flat on the sides, there's a but too much belly.


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## RRLOVER (Dec 19, 2012)

I have bought and sold a"few" blades........I still own my Tad and Yoshi and I doubt if will sell them.


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## turbochef422 (Dec 19, 2012)

I love trying new knives and can't afford to keep them all. So what was once "hot" is replaced with the new. But honestly once I started getting customs I'm hooked and doubt I'll ever fall into the trendy knife again.


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## Patatas Bravas (Dec 20, 2012)

Hello. I think the maker Ikkanshi-tadasuna is still working fine. But now he does not make internet sales on his website, which is closed. Maybe website sales takes too much time and these makers prefer that the other people sell knives for him? But I hear he is still a busy maker with many loyal domestic customers.


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## Patatas Bravas (Dec 20, 2012)

Oh, and also found this report on this maker. It is from 2 years but maybe still interesting. Sorry it is in french http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eQ3kumDwts


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## geezr (Dec 20, 2012)

Nenox knives were talked about a few years ago.


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## cookinstuff (Dec 20, 2012)

I have an Ikkanshi Tadatsuna 240 gyuto, 270 sujihiki, 180 petty, all inox, and a 300 yanagiba in whitesteel. Amazing knives, and I have tried all the big guys. I got them as a good stainless set, and they didn't disapoint.


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## ChiliPepper (Dec 20, 2012)

Yeah, I asked myself the same questions. Surely a knife is less subject to fashion mood swings than,say, cars or shoes but I agree with Chefdog that there are (blessed) experimenters and pioneers out there that every now and then stumble unto something good and influence forum aficionados. Af Chefdog says, it's to everybody's advantage!


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## Patatas Bravas (Dec 20, 2012)

cookinstuff said:


> I have an Ikkanshi Tadatsuna 240 gyuto, 270 sujihiki, 180 petty, all inox, and a 300 yanagiba in whitesteel. Amazing knives, and I have tried all the big guys. I got them as a good stainless set, and they didn't disapoint.



Excuse me but how did you purchase these knives? From the internet? It was long ago?


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## Duckfat (Dec 20, 2012)

Stranger things have happened but I think it's very unlikely Ikkanshi is still open and just not doing internet sales. I've spoken to Hideki many times and after the disaster I've never received a single response. I don't think they were physically located any where near the Tsunami but I'd expect the financial devastation to be just as bad. 
I'd really like to be wrong about that.

Dave


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## Yamabushi (Dec 20, 2012)

It's Japanese only, but I believe this is Tadatsuna-san's current site: http://www.hamono21.co.jp/index2.html


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## Duckfat (Dec 20, 2012)

It looks like some one bought the Ikkanshi name although I'm having trouble getting some of the pages to load. 
No Inox and a very limited selection. Does any one still have an Ikkanshi catalog to cross check the address?

Dave


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## labor of love (Dec 20, 2012)

aframes restocked several tads not too long ago. anybody interested in tads should check with aframestokyo.


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## Patatas Bravas (Dec 20, 2012)

About Ikkanshi Tadatsuna, yes they are definitely open. Sorry I don't know about the histories or maybe if the ownership have changed. The proprietor is Toshihiko Nagata, the same man that they said his name in the video clip from 2010 that I put above. The website above is correct also. I know he still produces INOX.


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## Cadillac J (Dec 20, 2012)

It is just the nature of hobbyist forums to try and continue evolving...even if the evolution isn't really a step forward, change is still needed and pursued. It doesn't mean any of those knives you listed aren't still amazing pieces (love my Yosh SKD, just mentioned in another thread recently). Not to mention, there has been a boom in new knife offerings in the last two years from both custom and production makers, which provide much more choices nowadays.

Tadatsuna started to become hard to find as many retailers ran out of their inventory, and during that time, Konosuke was everywhere offering very similar knives for much less than both Tads and Suisin IH...it was easy for people to substitute one for the other. And now you barely hear about Konosuke anymore (even far prior to the recent price spike), as people have moved onto pushing Gesshin and renewed interest back to Sakai Yusuke.

It's funny how things can change, but really stay the same, at the same time.


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## playford (Dec 20, 2012)

I remember no one wanted nenox's as they were too soft! lol

just fashion.


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## cnochef (Dec 20, 2012)

Nenox has also become extremely expensive compared to other production knives. You can get at least a semi-custom and some full customs for the current price of a Nenox. I suspect this is the major reason for their fading appeal.


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## jaybett (Dec 20, 2012)

Makers become popular, when a well known member gives them a positive review. Fred over at FF, gave Yoshahiro a boast. While KCMA helped Aritsugu and Tadatsuna. 

The forum goal has been to find a maker, with great knives at great prices. Takeda so far is the best example. A thin knife, with AS steel, initially at a low price, that cut as well or better then many higher priced knives. Even after a few price increases, they were a good deal. 

Moritaka seemed poised to be the next Takeda, until the issues began to surface. There was a lot of excitement about Konosuke, and then it went away. On the HD series, the main complaint seemed to be they were too light?

The main reason knives fall out of popularity is price. Takeda is a great knife, but at their current price level, would they still be considered a good deal? When a knife becomes common enough, that seems to take some of the bloom off. The Forum knife is a good example. 

Jay


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## tk59 (Dec 20, 2012)

It's a lot of things, pretty much all mentioned here. I'm continually surprised that Glestain doesn't get more pub, as a matter of fact. Once I thinned it just a tad and more recently, ground off some of that thick butt cap, it is very difficult to put down. After seeing what a lot of folks have done to thier A-type, I do understand why they don't get recommended but mine remains among my favorite knives to use, albeit after a lot of modification. Blazen is a very nice knife but I don't see it outperforming other knives in it's price range and general category. I like Yoshikane but I've found them not to be outstanding all around knives, in general. I always try to give reasons why I like knives but in the end it comes down to what I keep wanting to use. Tadatsuna are just like Gesshin, etc but Gesshin takes and holds an nice edge better. My IT sits in my block. I guess I should get rid of it...maybe...nah...


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## K-Fed (Dec 20, 2012)

Used my glestain tonight. It was one of my first h knives and I still love it years later. The only thing I feel could be better is the edge retention. Still a fantasticly well made knife that can stand up to a lot of abuse.


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## K-Fed (Dec 20, 2012)

Used my glestain tonight. It was one of my first j knives and I still love it years later. The only thing I feel could be better is the edge retention. Still a fantasticly well made knife that can stand up to a lot of abuse.


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## K-Fed (Dec 20, 2012)

Double post sorry. iPhone is giving me fits. Lol


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## Lefty (Dec 20, 2012)

Another one is Misono. I love mine, as most here know. The increased prices and lack of a new model seems to be keeping them back. With that being said, I still want a UX-10 gyuto. Haha


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## NO ChoP! (Dec 20, 2012)

I refurbed a beat up 240 Misono moly gyuto for a coworker today. My expectations were low, but that thing impressed. It was thin and nimble, and took a great edge.
.
I never got the UX10 hype. Doesn't seem all that special.

How about Tojiro DP? Used to be the goto recommendation..


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## tk59 (Dec 21, 2012)

NO ChoP! said:


> I refurbed a beat up 240 Misono moly gyuto for a coworker today. My expectations were low, but that thing impressed. It was thin and nimble, and took a great edge.
> .
> I never got the UX10 hype. Doesn't seem all that special.
> 
> How about Tojiro DP? Used to be the goto recommendation..


I've used the 440 and UX10 side by side. The UX10 edge seemed to hold up better but not by a lot. The Tojiro DP is a nice knife but the chippiness is a deal breaker for me. Various flavors of moly stainless found in a lot of relatively low cost knives is much more practical, imo.


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## Duckfat (Dec 21, 2012)

labor of love said:


> aframes restocked several tads not too long ago. anybody interested in tads should check with aframestokyo.



I have no idea if they re-stocked with new inventory (I asked but did not get a response to that) but I spoke with Takeshi yesterday and A-frames does have some Ikkanshi-Tads. It looks like the prices have been marked down as well.

Dave


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## playford (Dec 21, 2012)

NO ChoP! said:


> How about Tojiro DP? Used to be the goto recommendation..




Here why for me, You used to be able to get a 240mm DP from JCK for $59.99 + $7 shipping to the uk. This was when the pound to dollar was 2:1 so for just over £30 you got a pretty decent knife. 

How about when everyone decided that wantanabe gyutos were "too thick" and he went out of fashion lol.

Takedas are nice but theres no way I'd pay the kind of price they are now.


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## mikemac (Dec 21, 2012)

NO ChoP! said:


> ...
> I never got the UX10 hype. Doesn't seem all that special...



The UX10 hype was (IMHO) all about the LA Times article's _impact _ on SLT/WS type high end consumers. Re-read the article and all the knives mentioned should have taken off, but "we" consumers seemingly love to skip the details and buy #1 on the list.


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## mikemac (Dec 21, 2012)

playford said:


> Here why for me, You used to be able to get a 240mm DP from JCK for $59.99 + $7 shipping to the uk. This was when the pound to dollar was 2:1 so for just over £30 you got a pretty decent knife...



I'm pretty sure that at about the same time, Tojiro replaced the core steel - VG10 replaced cromoly -so you had a related price bump there too.


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## NO ChoP! (Dec 21, 2012)

Pointing out Tojiros price hike as singular is silly when every maker has bumped prices by now...still considered relatively affordable, I would think. More so, there's been a slew of other affordable entry levels; enter Carbonext....


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## playford (Dec 22, 2012)

It was also that JCK stopped stocking them (no more cheap postage etc) and now the pound to the dollar is 1:1.5 for me. So not such a bargain now!


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## WiscoNole (Dec 22, 2012)

I don't think Tadatsuna was ever significantly overpriced. Of course there are much cheaper options for that style of knife, but F&F have been perfect on all 3 of my Tads and the handles, pin and all, are much nicer and more aesthetic than, say, a Sakai Yusuke's. Do the Sakai's come with sayas? Bc Tadatsuna's are (were?) pretty nice.


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## WiscoNole (Dec 22, 2012)

mikemac said:


> The UX10 hype was (IMHO) all about the LA Times article's _impact _ on SLT/WS type high end consumers. Re-read the article and all the knives mentioned should have taken off, but "we" consumers seemingly love to skip the details and buy #1 on the list.



That doesn't explain how it's all over NYC restaurants I worked at


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## tk59 (Dec 22, 2012)

WiscoNole said:


> That doesn't explain how it's all over NYC restaurants I worked at


Back when I started out, I remember doing a Google search and UX10 came up several times. I almost ended up getting one as my first high end knife. I'm glad the guy at the local KnifeMerchant convinced me to get a Glestain. A hundred plus knives later, I still love that knife. Anyway, I can see why a lot of folks would get a UX10 after searching the same way I did.


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## labor of love (Dec 22, 2012)

hung huynhs knife skills from top chef certainly gave the ux 10 a boost in popularity as well.


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## Duckfat (Dec 22, 2012)

IIR Hung may have been the one that made me want that Glestain box so bad....Bastage! unish:

Dave


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## James (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm quite fond of the profile of the UX10s, but the blade geometry leaves something to be desired. The grind is very flat.


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## labor of love (Dec 22, 2012)

every time i feel enticed by ux 10, i quickly realize a stainless ashi ginga western would be a nicer and cheaper option.


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## bieniek (Dec 22, 2012)

tk59 said:


> I'm continually surprised that Glestain doesn't get more pub, as a matter of fact. Once I thinned it just a tad and more recently, ground off some of that thick butt cap, it is very difficult to put down.



I did pretty much the same. 

Its for sale now, I am very happy I got it for free [damaged] cause I would be mad at myself if I spent so much money on that something.
The steel is a disaster. 
Does it take worthy edge? I would just say it cuts. 
It feels solid in hand but like made with chewing gum when cutting. 

The only thing worth is the food release. The right side really really works. 
The flat side however... 
Is that about preference? I think its measurable whether edge or retention are very good in its segment


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## phasedweasel (Dec 22, 2012)

James said:


> I'm quite fond of the profile of the UX10s, but the blade geometry leaves something to be desired. The grind is very flat.



What do you mean by this, that the grind is too flat? I'm having a hard time picturing it.


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## EdipisReks (Dec 22, 2012)

phasedweasel said:


> What do you mean by this, that the grind is too flat? I'm having a hard time picturing it.



each side is more a less a straight line from bevel to spine.


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## Duckfat (Dec 27, 2012)

Duckfat said:


> Does any one still have an Ikkanshi catalog to cross check the address?



I found the address for Ikkanshi in the past and does look like some change change has taken place. There is mention on the site linked up thread about the change which as best as I can tell says; "Along with the trend of the times, the new one is born, but good old disappears". 
Here's the old info Vs the new if any one is interested;

Old Ikkanshi Tadatsuna ;
V&V Logistics Corporation 
3-18-21, Nagayoshi-Kawanabe, Hirano-ku, &#332;saka-fu, Japan 547-0014
TEL: +81-(0)6-4302-3700 
FAX: +81-(0)6-4302-3600 

New;
Nagata Cutlery Co., Ltd. 
1 No. 4 Ding Kainochohigashi Sakai-ku, Sakai, Japan 590-0953
TEL: 072-232-2921 / 072-232-1132
FAX: 072-222-1948


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## tk59 (Dec 27, 2012)

bieniek said:


> I did pretty much the same.
> 
> Its for sale now, I am very happy I got it for free [damaged] cause I would be mad at myself if I spent so much money on that something.
> The steel is a disaster.
> ...



Glestain does not have a flat side. Yes, the steel is softer. I do not have problems with burrs or wire edges. The edge isn't like carbon but it performs far better than a Wusthof or Henckels or Forschner. I like to sharpen mine on a coticule. Edge holding and performance is decent. Mine cuts much better than chewing gum, lol. Frankly, that's ridiculous. Steel is less than half the story, imo. As long as the steel is decent (which it is) 90% of performance is grind and sharpening. Once you figure out how to put a good edge on it (It's not hard.), it is an excellent knife.


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## Rottman (Dec 27, 2012)

Duckfat said:


> Old Ikkanshi Tadatsuna ;
> V&V Logistics Corporation
> 3-18-21, Nagayoshi-Kawanabe, Hirano-ku, &#332;saka-fu, Japan 547-0014
> TEL: +81-(0)6-4302-3700
> ...



IIRC V&V logistics was only a distributor and not the IT address.


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## bieniek (Dec 27, 2012)

tk59 said:


> Glestain does not have a flat side. Yes, the steel is softer. I do not have problems with burrs or wire edges. The edge isn't like carbon but it performs far better than a Wusthof or Henckels or Forschner. I like to sharpen mine on a coticule. Edge holding and performance is decent. Mine cuts much better than chewing gum, lol. Frankly, that's ridiculous. Steel is less than half the story, imo. As long as the steel is decent (which it is) 90% of performance is grind and sharpening. Once you figure out how to put a good edge on it (It's not hard.), it is an excellent knife.




Yeah. Sure.

That is much better explanation then the knife being piece of crap. At least I like it


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## Yamabushi (Dec 27, 2012)

Duckfat said:


> New;
> Nagata Cutlery Co., Ltd.
> 1 No. 4 Ding Kainochohigashi Sakai-ku, Sakai, Japan 590-0953
> TEL: 072-232-2921 / 072-232-1132
> FAX: 072-222-1948



This is the address listed on the site I linked to earlier: It is this the Romanized version of this address: &#22586;&#24066;&#22586;&#21306;&#30002;&#26000;&#30010;&#26481;1&#19969;1&#30058;4&#21495; &#12306;590-0953. I'd write it slightly differently, like this:

*1-1-4 Kainoch&#333;higashi, Sakai-shi, Sakai-ku, Japan 590-0953*


The workshop address is also listed as: &#22586;&#24066;&#22586;&#21306;&#26611;&#20043;&#30010;&#35199;&#65299;&#19969;&#65304;&#30058;&#65299;&#21495;. No postal code is shown but here is the Romanized version of the workshop address:

*3-8-3 Yanaginoch&#333;nishi, Sakai-shi, Sakai-ku, Japan*


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## RobinW (Dec 28, 2012)

No difference if IT is still in business, but i just put my white 240 gyuto back in rotation and it is a brilliant knife :biggrin:


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