# Your thoughts ... Bob Kramer Sharpening



## Cloudsmoker (Mar 9, 2020)

In the few months I've been here, I've learned so much. Thank you. Seen most of the YouTube sharpening videos, including all the Usual Suspects (Murray Carter, Peter Nowlin, Mark Richmond, Jon Broida, Ryky, etc.) Curious what the pros think about Bob Kramer's sharpening technique - fast and swoopy? Lately, I find myself following that curve on the finer grits. Two pennies for your thoughts?


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## panda (Mar 9, 2020)

i could care less how other people sharpen, what matters is what works for you and gets you the results you are happy with.


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## rob (Mar 9, 2020)

I don't mind the Kramer swoopy technique. Sometimes ill use it just to mix things up a little.

Only on the higher grit stones 5000+ with very light pressure and edge leading strokes.


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## WildBoar (Mar 9, 2020)

He was a pro sharpener for a bit. He seems to know what he is doing. The one I watched him sharpen cut pretty well afterward, but I don' t know how well the edge held up.


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## bahamaroot (Mar 10, 2020)

I sharpen in a very similar way, works for me. Most guys seem to "scrub" the edge on the stone but I sweep the blade along the entire edge. I hold an angle better that way.
As panda says, it's all about whatever works for you to get the results you are happy with.


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## Barmoley (Mar 10, 2020)

Sharpening flatter edge knives I try to do what Jon does, it seems to work for me. Kramer knives have much more curve, so for that his technique works well. I agree with @panda though there are many ways to do this, whatever works for you is fine.


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## M1k3 (Mar 10, 2020)

I have nothing against the technique. I've tried it on my knives and wasn't a big fan. I tried it on my coworkers Ken Onion Shun and it worked fine.


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## Benuser (Mar 10, 2020)

Always been wondering about the huge pressure he recommends IIRC.


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 10, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I have nothing against the technique. I've tried it on my knives and wasn't a big fan. I tried it on my coworkers Ken Onion Shun and it worked fine.



Makes sense!


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## M1k3 (Mar 10, 2020)

It does! It's got that continuous curve to the edge. My knives are closer to flat.


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## Carl Kotte (Mar 10, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> It does! It's got that continuous curve to the edge. My knives are closer to flat.



Yup, I agree. The only time I’ve had success with a technique like that is when sharpening curved profiles (mostly Wüsthofs, but there are shuns that are not too different).


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## Michi (Mar 10, 2020)

Kramer's technique works well for me for knives with lots of curvature. For straighter profiles, I prefer the usual up-and-down technique, working one section of the blade at a time.


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## kayman67 (Mar 10, 2020)

It's on the slow side, but useful for blending bevels and stuff like that, so it would still be a good thing to know. Also can be used to make edge leading passes more approachable.


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## marc4pt0 (Mar 10, 2020)

All the above. I also like to mix Bob’s curved style into other styles. It works for me, but I’m not the greatest sharpener and am always still “learning”. 
Way before the wonderful and expensive world of knives, this was how I sharpened my knives. Even prior to seeing Bob’s videos. Back then there were _no _videos, or online. I just mimicked what I saw in old western movies when barbers etc were stropping their razors on leather belts.


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## inferno (Mar 10, 2020)

Cloudsmoker said:


> In the few months I've been here, I've learned so much. Thank you. Seen most of the YouTube sharpening videos, including all the Usual Suspects (Murray Carter, Peter Nowlin, Mark Richmond, Jon Broida, Ryky, etc.) Curious what the pros think about Bob Kramer's sharpening technique - fast and swoopy? Lately, I find myself following that curve on the finer grits. Two pennies for your thoughts?



if you look at his vid it might not be obvious but its cut and edited. its looks like he's doing all that in like 30 seconds, but thats not the case.
he also seems to be using extremely high pressure to get **** done fast. its easy to crush/fold an edge doing that.

that being said. i think you should just try to get a blade sharp on your stone. you will find out what you have to do pretty fast. this is not rocket scinece.

- i have a type of hybrid sharpening method that i came up with myself. for coarse work i do like jon broida, like 90 degree angle back and forth over and over, because thats the fast way of removing metal on stones i found.
- then i try to make the bevel even/blended all over the blade. and then i do a sweep from edge to heel, trying to use the whole stone. back and forth, same sweep
- then i do the swipes from heel to tip edge leading as deburring/fine grinding, imagine trying to slice a thin sliver off the stone, and i alternate sides 1-1 doing this while lightening up the pressure as i go.

so in my opinion there is no right or wrong, and no good or bad method. its just different techniques for different stages imo. and those above works for me on kitchen knife size blades.

on folders and small blades under lets say 10cm, i use none of these techniques. because i dont find them effective nor precise for that. i don't feel i have the control i want so then i do completely other things instead.


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## Cloudsmoker (Mar 10, 2020)

inferno said:


> if you look at his vid it might not be obvious but its cut and edited. its looks like he's doing all that in like 30 seconds, but thats not the case.
> he also seems to be using extremely high pressure to get **** done fast. its easy to crush/fold an edge doing that.
> 
> that being said. i think you should just try to get a blade sharp on your stone. you will find out what you have to do pretty fast. this is not rocket scinece.
> ...


Thank you - so much. I have stumbled and bumbled upon a technique very similar to what you just described. I just haven't settled on a consistent approach - resulting in wasting time, and some rework. I believe I'm a the stage where I have enough technique (in my head) and my go-forward progress is most likely to result from locking down with consistency. 

And, yeah, pocket knife / folders tend to be a whole different process. Really appreciate the time you took to spell that out.


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## inferno (Mar 10, 2020)

get some cheap crap knives to sharpen if you dont want to sacrifice good stuff. i however did not try anything out before i went to my good knives. well i kinda knew what i had to do to get the blade sharp but thats it. then its just 5-10 minutes to find out what works. then its down to repetition until you get good at it.


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## Desert Rat (Mar 11, 2020)

He probably learned to sharpen before water stones became popular here in the USA. Pretty similar style to them old guys that learned how to sharpen on Arkansas stones.


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## Benuser (Mar 11, 2020)

Desert Rat said:


> He probably learned to sharpen before water stones became popular here in the USA. Pretty similar style to them old guys that learned how to sharpen on Arkansas stones.


Do people apply that huge pressure with Arkies?


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## Desert Rat (Mar 11, 2020)

I think he's a little heavy for knifes, but the stones do want some pressure to cut aggressively.


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## panda (Mar 11, 2020)

uses heavy pressure because the people who watch his videos use cheap stainless knives which have awful gummy steels thus need brute force steel removal.


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## Calebmccullough18 (Mar 12, 2020)

Benuser said:


> Do people apply that huge pressure with Arkies?


No, we arkie users do not use heavy pressure. They are too hard .the edge will suffer if you use high pressure on an Arkansas stone.


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## Eloh (Mar 12, 2020)

Im sure he is a decent hand sharpener, but imo a lot of pressure is never desirable unless you are really trying to abrade alot of material, but for what i'd consider 'normal sharpening' not really.


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## MartinJ (Mar 12, 2020)

I do sharpen all the blade length in one stroke, back and forth, for really curvy blades, and also for finishing passes for every knife with polishing stones. It's "aligning" the edge, more pleasant to the eye especially with hard stones like choseras. 

But i don't set bevels with this technique i find it too slow / not precise enough.


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## Sailor (Mar 12, 2020)

Peter Nowlan here, thanks for watching my video. I’ll tell about my video watching mistake: 
When I got really serious about learning to freehand sharpen I got the YouTube fever. I was/am obsessed with sharpening so I was thirsty for knowledge. I watched countless videos and that was wrong. I’d watch a technique then attempt to mirror it. When I failed I blamed it on the video/sharpener and moved to the next video. He was wrong to so I kept moving on. Naturally, I was the problem not the person shooting the video. 
The best ones out there like Jon’s will clearly demonstrate a working technique. No video will give you muscle memory and consistency. My advice is to select a video that you like to get the fundamentals down and then stop watching it. Time to practice and only refer to the video if needed. Select a technique and stick with it. If your knives are not turning out as well as you hoped then it’s you, not the video. 
I’m the king of sharpening mistakes and I haven’t stopped yet but this realization really became the game changer for me. This was a decade ago but there was still many videos to watch. 
Think of our fathers and grandfathers making knives and tools sharp without any outside influence and using an oil stone that we would now consider an artifact. 

Practice on a decent knife, not a cheap one. You won’t ruin it. Cheap steal can be difficult to sharpen and can shake your confidence. 
Peter


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## Cloudsmoker (Mar 12, 2020)

Sailor said:


> Peter Nowlan here, thanks for watching my video. I’ll tell about my video watching mistake:
> When I got really serious about learning to freehand sharpen I got the YouTube fever. I was/am obsessed with sharpening so I was thirsty for knowledge. I watched countless videos and that was wrong. I’d watch a technique then attempt to mirror it. When I failed I blamed it on the video/sharpener and moved to the next video. He was wrong to so I kept moving on. Naturally, I was the problem not the person shooting the video.
> The best ones out there like Jon’s will clearly demonstrate a working technique. No video will give you muscle memory and consistency. My advice is to select a video that you like to get the fundamentals down and then stop watching it. Time to practice and only refer to the video if needed. Select a technique and stick with it. If your knives are not turning out as well as you hoped then it’s you, not the video.
> I’m the king of sharpening mistakes and I haven’t stopped yet but this realization really became the game changer for me. This was a decade ago but there was still many videos to watch.
> ...



Dear Sailor. You (or at least your hands, as that is mostly what we see) and your videos are the ones I‘ve modeled the most. Your response here is amazing to me on so many levels. Let me simply say, U Da Bomb.


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## Sailor (Mar 12, 2020)

Thank you sir. I like passing on things I’ve learned from my mistakes. I’ve got tons of info


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## M1k3 (Mar 12, 2020)

Sailor said:


> Thank you sir. I like passing on things I’ve learned from my mistakes. I’ve got tons of info



Feel free to share!


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## crockerculinary (Mar 12, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Feel free to share!


He already does!


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## M1k3 (Mar 12, 2020)

And it's appreciated. Just encouraging more.


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## MartinJ (Mar 12, 2020)

Yep your videos summarize a lot of content in quite a short amount of time. 

Also I love Pete's Instagram account


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## Cloudsmoker (Mar 12, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> And it's appreciated. Just encouraging more.


Ditto.


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## Rotem Shoshani (Mar 13, 2020)

On the subject of pressure, have you guys ever seen this video  ?

I have absolutely no idea how this guy maintains pressure going that fast, I initially thought he's thinning out something, but he seems to be giving the knives back to their owners.

As to me, I find that if I go slow, the control in pressure seems to be good, but angle control is a bit finicky, if I'm going Japanese style scrubbing from tip to heel, no way I'm using light pressure, I can really concentrate and maintain average pressure, but never as light as I'm stroppinflg or going slow.

Anybody else been experiencing this?


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## Sailor (Mar 24, 2020)

In case anyone is interested I just finished an article on my Blog about some of the mistakes that I’ve made and how I overcame the issues. Now many of them were a result of a lack of knowledge but I still classify them as mistakes. No think it’s very important to make them, to fail is fine. Just don’t let an ego prevent you from capitalizing on them.


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## Cloudsmoker (Mar 24, 2020)

Awesome! Will check it out. 

Peter, we prefer to call it tuition. Hopefully, the payment looks more like night class at a community college vs. an Ivy League university. And, from time to time, it’s nice to get a passing grade as well.


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