# Kohetsu AS is NOT Hiromoto AS



## Dave Martell (Oct 18, 2016)

Just to get this out there for clarifications sake....._seems to be some confusion_.....


Kohetsu Aogami Super (AS) are *NOT* the same knives as Hiromoto Aogami Super (AS)


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## Dave Martell (Oct 18, 2016)

There are some similarities though....


1. Aogami Super (AS) core steel

2. Stainless cladding

3. Made in Seki City

4. Thick, especially at the tip.


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## Ruso (Oct 18, 2016)

Is it a home brand of the one you shall not name?
Also the red yo handle is very similar to Takamura's.


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## Steampunk (Oct 18, 2016)

Dave, can the Kohetsu be reground into a decent knife, or is it an unsalvageable case? What knives are good 'spa-treatment' candidates these days in the absence of Hiromoto? 

- Steampunk

P.S. Mention of Hiromoto makes me very nostalgic these days; my first really decent knife. Still sad they're gone.


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## panda (Oct 18, 2016)

5) theyre both meh


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## daveb (Oct 18, 2016)

+1 2 5


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## Dave Martell (Oct 18, 2016)

Steampunk said:


> Dave, can the Kohetsu be reground into a decent knife, or is it an unsalvageable case? What knives are good 'spa-treatment' candidates these days in the absence of Hiromoto?
> 
> - Steampunk




I'm sure they can be ground into a thinner knife but I'm unsure if etching is something worth doing or not as I haven't had the opportunity to try this yet.


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## JaVa (Oct 19, 2016)

I've brought this up in a few threads. My Kohetsu HAP40 wa gyuto is a bad knife, bad grind, bad profile, thick clumsy tip, has manufacturing defects etc. The red handled one is even thicker and should not EVER be mentioned in the same sentence with the Takamura!!!


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## sergeysus (Oct 19, 2016)

My Kohetsu AS is not so bad - very thin, keeps a decent edge, tip is meh, but my Hiro on the other hand if very thick behind the edge.


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## DanHumphrey (Oct 19, 2016)

So very glad I got the girl a Takamura instead of a Kohetsu!


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## rogue108 (Oct 20, 2016)

I thought this was common knowledge since Hiromoto no longer makes knives so the Kohetsu can't be the same knife, however I can see this being confusing. The way it's marketed to a person who doesn't know is a bit deceptive. Since Kohetsu AS knives are under the Hiromoto AS moniker.


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## AllanP (Oct 20, 2016)

rogue108 said:


> I thought this was common knowledge since Hiromoto no longer makes knives so the Kohetsu can't be the same knife, however I can see this being confusing. The way it's marketed to a person who doesn't know is a bit deceptive. Since Kohetsu AS knives are under the Hiromoto AS moniker.



Man that is actually pretty shady. The entire section of Hiromoto has been replaced with Kohetsu knives. They are using the Hiromoto name to sell another brand. 

I feel bad for people who are new and buys the wrong product.


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## StephenYu (Oct 20, 2016)

but are they made by the same person?


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## Benuser (Oct 20, 2016)

People looking for a kind-of-Hiromoto better check this one:
http://japanesechefsknife.com/DeepImpactAogamiSuperSeries.html#DeepImpact


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## Dave Martell (Oct 20, 2016)

I received a Kohetsu in for work but the customer told me he was sending in a Hiromoto, he thought he had a Hiro AS.


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## Dave Martell (Oct 20, 2016)

StephenYu said:


> but are they made by the same person?




Are they? I'm not so sure. 

The knives do not appear to be constructed (laminated) the same way and/or heat treated the same. The distinctive Hiromoto pattern seen in the lamination line between steels is not present on the Kohetsu. 

Maybe some of the guys who work with/for Mr. Nagao (previously making Hiromotos) now work on Kohetsus but for sure the man (Mr. Nagao) who forged the Hiromoto AS knives is not doing so any longer. Muddy waters here...reminds me of Lamson making AEB-L chef's knives called ITK as replacements for Devin Thomas' AEB-L ITK line - same steel yet not quite the same, is it?


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## Benuser (Oct 20, 2016)

That explains your concerns. So if a customer calls some salesman, asking for a Hiromoto, he might get a Kohetsu.


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## Dave Martell (Oct 20, 2016)

Benuser said:


> That explains your concerns. So if a customer calls some salesman, asking for a Hiromoto, he might get a Kohetsu.




I'm primarily concerned that people get what they expect but I also don't appreciate having to explain to my customer(s) the situation when it comes up. It's frustrating to be the bearer of bad news especially when the situation (as in this last case) the customer purchased the knife only because of my previous (Hiromoto) work and wanting the same results. I become part of the situation when that happens, even if not directly.


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## chinacats (Oct 20, 2016)

StephenYu said:


> but are they made by the same person?



NO


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## Dave Martell (Oct 20, 2016)

Benuser said:


> People looking for a kind-of-Hiromoto better check this one:
> http://japanesechefsknife.com/DeepImpactAogamiSuperSeries.html#DeepImpact




I saw these the other day. The appear similar to the Kohetsu.


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## Benuser (Oct 20, 2016)

Dave Martell said:


> I'm primarily concerned that people get what they expect but I also don't appreciate having to explain to my customer(s) the situation when it comes up. It's frustrating to be the bearer of bad news especially when the situation (as in this last case) the customer purchased the knife only because of my previous (Hiromoto) work and wanting the same results. I become part of the situation when that happens, even if not directly.



Very clear, thanks, Dave.


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## bryan03 (Oct 20, 2016)

you can send some pictures?


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## supersayan3 (Oct 21, 2016)

My Hiromotos(last batches) are thin behind the edge, and overall a perfect knife for professional use(with the red onion exception).
2 more dear friends pros, that I have given them a Hiromoto AS as a gift, and have more Japanese knives(vg10, sg2, ZDP189), also agree that it is overall perfect, a joy to work with it for hours, and it is their go to knife.


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## Tonsku38 (Oct 21, 2016)

I had Kohetsu 240 AS gyuto and I liked profile and how it cut but it was so badly made that it bended if I pinch grip it too hard. Still mad to myself that I didn't buy Kurosaki.


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## Tall Dark and Swarfy (Oct 21, 2016)

I bought the yo handled Kohetsu AS 240 when it was offered as a forum special for a crazy good price. It reminded me very much of the Voldemort "AS Laser" which is actually made by Yu Kurosaki. The tip was significantly thicker but could easily be worked. 

Not being a fan of yo handles, I gifted that knife to the head chef of the cafeteria in my office building who had just come out of Johnson and Wales. A good kid. I wanted him to review it from a high production perspective but he prized it too much to keep it at work.


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## Benuser (Oct 22, 2016)

This is what a Syogeki looks like. No idea if it is the same as the Kohetsu, never handled one. 





Thinner behind the edge than the best Hiromotos I've seen, more consistent grinding, better F&F, but above all finer grained and offering a much better edge retention. More expensive as well.


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## Badgertooth (Oct 23, 2016)

Benuser said:


> This is what a Syogeki looks like. No idea if it is the same as the Kohetsu, never handled one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where is all the weight hiding? Is it in the handle? Because on the JCK website the 240 is listed as 2.2mm thick but weighing 258gr. That's 15gr more than my 270 shig and the same as beefy 240 with a big ebony handle. That can't be right, can it?


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## foody518 (Oct 23, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> Where is all the weight hiding? Is it in the handle? Because on the JCK website the 240 is listed as 2.2mm thick but weighing 258gr. That's 15gr more than my 270 shig and the same as beefy 240 with a big ebony handle. That can't be right, can it?



Recently I've been playing with a western handled Yoshihiro HSS 240mm that's also like a low 2. something mm quoted for the spine, but ~253g. Only like 15 or fewer grams less than my Misono Dragon 270mm which is not a particularly light knife. The grind is a bit sturdy but tapers acceptably towards the very edge (carrot cutting was better than expected). It does however have a denser feel to it that is only helped by that solid yo-handle

I dunno...maybe sometimes these knives are secret fatties


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## Badgertooth (Oct 24, 2016)

foody518 said:


> maybe sometimes these knives are secret fatties



As sold by Chub-O knives?




I'll see myself out.


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## Benuser (Oct 24, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> Where is all the weight hiding? Is it in the handle? Because on the JCK website the 240 is listed as 2.2mm thick but weighing 258gr. That's 15gr more than my 270 shig and the same as beefy 240 with a big ebony handle. That can't be right, can it?


Wondering about it as well. The one I have is a 210 with 182g.


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## foody518 (Oct 24, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> As sold by Chub-O knives?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



)) Secret vendor


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