# Need some advice. Making a base for a natural stone.



## jwthaparc (Aug 22, 2021)

So I'll preface this with the admission that I'm not good at carpentry/woodworking. 

So I'm making a base for my aoto out of (I think) pine. I've already planed it down to size, and its square enough for my liking. Now what is left to do is carve out the recess for the stone to sit in. 






This is the part I need advice on. 

How do I do this well? 

The tools I have at my disposal are, a block plane. 2 chisels. A dremel. And a belt sander. 

I've started chiseling it out, but it isn't easy to keep the bottom at the same level. Idk any advice is welcome.


----------



## coxhaus (Aug 22, 2021)

I think it is looking good. You just need to finish cutting it out. Boiled linseed oil is an easy finish. Varnish or polyurethane will work.

Cut it all out and then level the best you can.


----------



## K.Bouldin (Aug 22, 2021)

Looking good! 

I’m a fan of the pouring epoxy to level the bottom of the stone, then just sticking It to a flat piece of wood.

I’ll post a photo of my mounted aoto once I have better lighting…


----------



## coxhaus (Aug 23, 2021)

I think you can level it. Start from the middle with the chisel and cut to the end. If you cut down on the end first then as you cut to the end the piece will come out. Cut a little bit at a time. Don't try to take to much off as you cut with the chisel. After you get deep enough work on leveling it.

I did this when I was in high school 50 years ago.


----------



## Delat (Aug 23, 2021)

I would’ve approached this from another direction - start with a flat level base then glue wood strips along the edges to form the lip. Easiest way to level it out now would be with pouring epoxy mentioned above. 

Another option is to continue with the block plane, then when it looks decent use a sanding block to finish up along the edges. You could also pull the plane iron out and use it like a chisel plane. Lay it flat, bevel side up, and use it to get the high spots along the edges even with the already planed center.


----------



## cotedupy (Aug 23, 2021)

I imagine @childermass might have some good insights. Also worth checking out his thread here if you hadn’t seen: Dai time


----------



## childermass (Aug 23, 2021)

Very nice looking stone, it definitely deserves a nice base.
My process to get the cavity is the following:
- Cut down to desired depth around the circumference. Do it in small increments so the sides don’t split away from digging too deep with the chisel.
- After that is done take out all the material from the middle trying to make it as level as possible. This is easier if you cut out a portion of the wall in the center levelling that part completely (see the thread mentioned by Cotedupy to see what I mean). This way you will have a flat reference surface which makes it easier to get everything level.
- Try to put in the stone and make the cavity wider if needed so it will sit into place without needing force to put it down. See if it’s level and if there is any wobble.
- For fine tuning make the stone wet and put it in the base. Upon removal you will see where in the cavity you still got too much material because it will be wet there. Gradually remove those high spots until you get a contact surface you are happy with (100% is neither needed nor really achievable). You will be forced to dry the base from time to time using this method.
_Another method would be to use a piece of paper with crayon on one side. If you put this under the stone you will see crayon marks on the high spots. I for myself am doing better with the wet stone but that’s a matter of personal taste I guess._
- Shape the base, sand the cavity and check again, chances are good it will have changed a little.
Apply a good water resistant finish, I like to use flooring oil that hardens to a slight surface coat but everything that’s water repellant will work.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 23, 2021)

childermass said:


> Very nice looking stone, it definitely deserves a nice base.
> My process to get the cavity is the following:
> - Cut down to desired depth around the circumference. Do it in small increments so the sides don’t split away from digging too deep with the chisel.
> - After that is done take out all the material from the middle trying to make it as level as possible. This is easier if you cut out a portion of the wall in the center levelling that part completely (see the thread mentioned by Cotedupy to see what I mean). This way you will have a flat reference surface which makes it easier to get everything level.
> ...


Thank you so much for the reply. I will definitely check that thread out. I'm going to fix a couple mistakes, and follow your instructions, and see where I end up.


----------



## Yet-Another-Dave (Aug 23, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> ... How do I do this well?
> 
> The tools I have at my disposal are, a block plane. 2 chisels. A dremel. And a belt sander. ...



Your progress doesn't look bad. A straight edge across the top would help you visualize high spots or a straight scrap with a nail would make a "feeler gauge" to help you find them. Once found, removing the high spots either with a sharp chisel or your Dremel should get you to full depth without too much effort.

If you're enjoying the process enough to consider a new tool, a router or a router plane would be the traditional tools for leveling the bottom of a cavity.

Routers are loud, messing, (annoying!), and would make short work of this task. You wouldn't need a big one either. E.g. the 
DeWalt 611Kit is nice, well respected, and more than you'd need. It also looks like it's in short supply right now. (Bosch, Milwaukee, and Makita equivalents also have fans but they are often less of a value.)

Router planes will be quieter and more in keeping with your current hand tools. They traditionally would be used to flatten and smooth the bottom after you remove most of the material with a chisel. Lee Valley's Veritas line and Lie-Nielsen's line are top of the line and will be smoother to adjust and last so your heirs can enjoy them. (If you have access to a good used tools source, older Stanley's, and their competitors, tools in good condition will work (almost) as well. EBay however is a crap shoot.) Cheaper versions exist which have received mixed reviews. Generally they are reported to work well by those who don't expect LV or L-N fit & finish. One I remember specifically is Cowryman Router Plane as receiving good review from woodworking folk who've tried it. Another I notice, which is cheaper, is  Taytools Router Plane. I've dealt with Taylor Toolworks with good success and I'd be shocked if their offering wasn't usable, though I've not tried it specifically.

Good luck & have fun!


----------



## childermass (Aug 23, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Thank you so much for the reply. I will definitely check that thread out. I'm going to fix a couple mistakes, and follow your instructions, and see where I end up.


It does look pretty good already. The first one is always the hardest one (I wish that would be even remotely true ).
If you run into any problems or some questions arise feel free to drop me a line and I will see how I can help.


----------



## coxhaus (Aug 23, 2021)

I wondered if he had a wood bit for his Dremel. He could remove wood then finish with a chisel.

I would use my drill press with a wide drill bit then finish up with a chisel. A bit the width of the stone would make it easy.


----------



## childermass (Aug 23, 2021)

A Dremel wood milling bit might work with the right wood, I have tried that with Hornbeam and ended up sawing off the top cm of the wood slab, there was no chance for me to keep the walls of the cavity nice.

A drill press is actually not a bad idea, lots of the old coffin shaped boxes for oilstones are made using Forstner bits followed by chisels.

After all I have tried I ended up building a nice collection of old japanese chisels


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 23, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> I wondered if he had a wood bit for his Dremel. He could remove wood then finish with a chisel.
> 
> I would use my drill press with a wide drill bit then finish up with a chisel. A bit the width of the stone would make it easy.


I dont have wood bits, but I have bits I can improvise into working on wood. Like maybe the little drum sanding bits, or one of those aluminum oxide abrasive bits. I'm sure they will remove wood just fine.


----------



## refcast (Aug 23, 2021)

I just use drywall compound to fill in the base of the stone. It can be removed easily still after curing. It's friable


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 24, 2021)

So I ended up deciding to turn the top into the bottom because of some screw ups. It actually came out well. I had to sand down the uneven surface I left with the chisel, but after that it doesn't look bad. I can still stand some more. But for now I'm going to take a break and go finish the top. 




That piece that chipped away is unfortunate, but it will work still, and I've come too far to start over.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Aug 24, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> So I ended up deciding to turn the top into the bottom because of some screw ups. It actually came out well. I had to sand down the uneven surface I left with the chisel, but after that it doesn't look bad. I can still stand some more. But for now I'm going to take a break and go finish the top. View attachment 139209
> 
> 
> That piece that chipped away is unfortunate, but it will work still, and I've come too far to start over.



If you do have to start over, I'd recommend you look into another type of wood. Younger-growth pine will readily absorb moisture, which causes the wood-cells to expand, especially the light-colored sap-wood. You might also want to take a look at the end grain of your board, and see if the growth rings run reasonably straight across the end of your board, or, does it look circular. A circular pattern will most likely lead to warping as the wood dries. If you choose to continue with pine, acclimatize the wood before proceeding, then seal it well. You might also add a few ventilation holes.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 24, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> If you do have to start over, I'd recommend you look into another type of wood. Younger-growth pine will readily absorb moisture, which causes the wood-cells to expand, especially the light-colored sap-wood. You might also want to take a look at the end grain of your board, and see if the growth rings run reasonably straight across the end of your board, or, does it look circular. A circular pattern will most likely lead to warping as the wood dries. If you choose to continue with pine, acclimatize the wood before proceeding, then seal it well. You might also add a few ventilation holes.







How do I acclimatize?

The reason I picked this wood was because it was literally just laying around at my house. Just a 2×4 of it. I think it was going to be used in construction at some point, and just ended up being extra.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 24, 2021)

So it's getting close to being done. This is the (now) top side. I got the rough sanding done for the most part. I'm going to use some finer sandpaper, then find something to put on the wood. 

If I had to do this over, I would be more careful making rounder corners in the cavity to match the stone, and like someone just above said. I would likely use another piece of wood. 

It looks a little off, but that's just because the stone itself isn't a perfect rectangle.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Aug 24, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> View attachment 139218
> 
> 
> How do I acclimatize?
> ...



That's probably Spruce, frequently used for construction. It's a very soft wood. That particular piece you're holding, puzzles me a bit, mind you it appears to be very young. I'm wondering if that's not Poplar. The separation of the growth rings is what's unusual.

Acclimating is merely placing the wood in a location where it will most frequently be used, for a period of time. The humidity of that particular environment will balance out with the wood's humidity content, and the wood will stabilize. A week or two may be enough, depending on your location. Mind you, it may already be dry. Judging by the ring pattern, it'll most like "cup" over time if it's not already dry. If you have another piece of that type of wood, does it roughly weigh the same? A heavier piece contains more moisture.


----------



## coxhaus (Aug 24, 2021)

It's a tool holder for your stone, I think it will fine. 220 grit sandpaper will be fine enough to refinish. I leave my stone in my pine holder I made and it has never warped. I think I was 16 when I made it. That was over 50 years ago.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 24, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> That's probably Spruce, frequently used for construction. It's a very soft wood. That particular piece you're holding, puzzles me a bit, mind you it appears to be very young. I'm wondering if that's not Poplar. The separation of the growth rings is what's unusual.
> 
> Acclimating is merely placing the wood in a location where it will most frequently be used, for a period of time. The humidity of that particular environment will balance out with the wood's humidity content, and the wood will stabilize. A week or two may be enough, depending on your location. Mind you, it may already be dry. Judging by the ring pattern, it'll most like "cup" over time if it's not already dry. If you have another piece of that type of wood, does it roughly weigh the same? A heavier piece contains more moisture.


It sat around for god knows how long already. So I'm guessing it is quite dry. I still have most of the 2×4 I cut it (and my other less complex bases) from. If you want a picture.

Also I'm in southeast texas if that helps you figure out what wood it likely is.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Aug 24, 2021)

Frankly, I think you're doing a heckuva good job as is. Are you thinking of adding a cover, or, are you intending to use it solely as a stone-holder?
If you have a way of taking a few accurate measurements, check it after a week or so to see if there's any warping/shrinking. Wood will shrink across the grain as it loses moisture. Along the grain, it will remain stable.

If you decide to make a cover, you can make a rectangle, joined at each corner with "finger-joints" or "box-joints". Use lengthwise grain for the sides and across the ends.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 26, 2021)

So I finished up by oiling, and whatnot. Now I want to get my plane and chisels in ideal condition for the next time i need them. 

I've heard you want your plane blade to have a bit of a radius at the edge. Do you think this is too much? Its formed naturally like this while flattening the back again. 





I'm planning to even it out a bit more, but unless I hear other wise I will keep the radius shown here. 

Also would you guys recommend a micro bevel? On this or my chisels.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 26, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Frankly, I think you're doing a heckuva good job as is. Are you thinking of adding a cover, or, are you intending to use it solely as a stone-holder?
> If you have a way of taking a few accurate measurements, check it after a week or so to see if there's any warping/shrinking. Wood will shrink across the grain as it loses moisture. Along the grain, it will remain stable.
> 
> If you decide to make a cover, you can make a rectangle, joined at each corner with "finger-joints" or "box-joints". Use lengthwise grain for the sides and across the ends.
> ...


I'm planning to just use it as a base.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 26, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> That's probably Spruce, frequently used for construction. It's a very soft wood. That particular piece you're holding, puzzles me a bit, mind you it appears to be very young. I'm wondering if that's not Poplar. The separation of the growth rings is what's unusual.
> 
> Acclimating is merely placing the wood in a location where it will most frequently be used, for a period of time. The humidity of that particular environment will balance out with the wood's humidity content, and the wood will stabilize. A week or two may be enough, depending on your location. Mind you, it may already be dry. Judging by the ring pattern, it'll most like "cup" over time if it's not already dry. If you have another piece of that type of wood, does it roughly weigh the same? A heavier piece contains more moisture.


This is what it came from.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Aug 26, 2021)

That's fine,


jwthaparc said:


> So I finished up by oiling, and whatnot. Now I want to get my plane and chisels in ideal condition for the next time i need them.
> 
> I've heard you want your plane blade to have a bit of a radius at the edge. Do you think this is too much? Its formed naturally like this while flattening the back again.
> View attachment 139442
> ...



You're doing OK,,, maybe a bit much relief on the right side of the photo, but it'll work. The left side of your chisel in this picture, (your right) needs more relief, but you only need a little. Typically, as you sharpen your chisel "squarely", you finish off radiusing the corners by pressing down with both index fingers on each corner, and doing only a few strokes. Basically, all you're aiming at, is to avoid the corners digging in as your bevel cuts. The relief, should barely be visible. If the chisel leaves marks from the corners of the blade as you cut, you'll need a bit more relief. A few thousandths is all you need.

Regarding a micro-bevel,,,, yes, it's essential, and you want to keep it very small/narrow. One millimeter will probably be enough. As you finish the primary bevel, just raise the back of the chisel ever-so-slightly upward, and do a few strokes.

VERY important,,,, don't forget to flatten (polish) the back (bottom) of the chisel,,,, only the last 1/2" or so is fine. That "back, forms half of your bevel,,,, so it is essential that it be perfectly flat. (polished)

Those latest pictures you've added, are very helpful. That indeed looks like Spruce to me. If it IS dry and stable, you may be ok. If it's not yet completely dry, it should cup a bit over the next couple of weeks. Cupping will occur in the opposite direction/curvature of the growth rings. Cupping will mean the the bottom is not completely flat,,, or more precisely, that the four corners may not be aligned and contacting your flat working surface equally, leading to "rocking" as you work. The degree with which that happens, will depend on just how badly the wood "cups",,,,, if it cups at all. Rocking should be relatively easy to deal with, by adding "feet", and adjusting those with shims (for rubber feet), or, by adding a couple of wood strips to the bottom, then sanding the four feet simultaneously until they all make contact.

Good luck, you're doing great so far.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 26, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> That's fine,
> 
> 
> You're doing OK,,, maybe a bit much on the right, but it'll work. The left side of your chisel in this picture, (your right) needs more relief, but you only need a little. Typically, as you sharpen your chisel "squarely", you finish off radiusing the corners by pressing down with both index fingers on each corner, and doing only a few strokes. Basically, all you're aiming at, is to avoid the corners digging in as you cut. The relief, should barely be visible.
> ...


It's a plane blade in the picture.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 26, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> That's fine,
> 
> 
> You're doing OK,,, maybe a bit much on the right, but it'll work. The left side of your chisel in this picture, (your right) needs more relief, but you only need a little. Typically, as you sharpen your chisel "squarely", you finish off radiusing the corners by pressing down with both index fingers on each corner, and doing only a few strokes. Basically, all you're aiming at, is to avoid the corners digging in as you cut. The relief, should barely be visible.
> ...


Thank you for the advice. 

Yeah I'm currently still flattening it for the most part. I just sharpened the bevel a bit to see what it was looking like.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Aug 26, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> It's a plane blade in the picture.





jwthaparc said:


> It's a plane blade in the picture.



Are you not using a chisel-plane (cabinet-makers trimming plane)? Just wondering how a regular block-plane gets into the recess, and planes' to the inside edges of your holders' cavity.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 26, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Are you not using a chisel-plane (cabinet-makers trimming plane)? Just wondering how a regular block-plane gets into the recess, and planes' to the inside edges of your holders' cavity.


It didn't. I flattened, and reduced the wood to the right size. with the block plane. Then I did the recess with regular old chisels. Which was where I was wanting advice on getting the bottom as flat as possible. Then I ended up hand sanding the bottom of the recess as flat as I could.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Aug 26, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> It didn't. I flattened, and reduced the wood to the right size. with the block plane. Then I did the recess with regular old chisels. Which was where I was wanting advice on getting the bottom as flat as possible. Then I ended up hand sanding the bottom of the recess as flat as I could.



That's a lot of work, but you're doing great by the look of things.



https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/70929-veritas-cabinetmakers-trimming-plane?item=05P7401&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&gclid=CjwKCAjw95yJBhAgEiwAmRrutBzEpxJyB7HQuusVu55kGIjE3Hu7G2JvcAsTtEdAUKuLI-5j7gSzRRoCgDAQAvD_BwE


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 26, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> That's a lot of work, but you're doing great by the look of things.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/70929-veritas-cabinetmakers-trimming-plane?item=05P7401&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&gclid=CjwKCAjw95yJBhAgEiwAmRrutBzEpxJyB7HQuusVu55kGIjE3Hu7G2JvcAsTtEdAUKuLI-5j7gSzRRoCgDAQAvD_BwE



Thanks! Yeah getting something like that would make my life easier.


----------



## memorael (Aug 26, 2021)

Wow, really cool project here, congrats on the craftsmanship.


----------



## jwthaparc (Aug 26, 2021)

memorael said:


> Wow, really cool project here, congrats on the craftsmanship.


I appreciate it! It's my first time doing anything like this. I've made bases for my naturals, but those were more like blocks of wood that I epoxied the stone to. I would definitely give it another go, with better wood, using what I learned here.


----------



## childermass (Aug 27, 2021)

Great work, the cavity looks really nicely done.
I think we will need some pictures of the whole piece with the stone after finishing though


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 1, 2021)

I sanded it to 320, then put a stain on it. You guys think I should add another coat?











I'm going to add a polyurethane clear coat after. Then it will officially be finished.


----------



## Delat (Sep 1, 2021)

Lee Valley makes a nice jig for sharpening plane irons. It has a little knob you use to increase the angle some fraction of a degree after setting the primary bevel.

A microbevel will save you tons of time sharpening because plane iron primary bevels are huge especially compared to knife bevels.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 2, 2021)

Delat said:


> Lee Valley makes a nice jig for sharpening plane irons. It has a little knob you use to increase the angle some fraction of a degree after setting the primary bevel.
> 
> A microbevel will save you tons of time sharpening because plane iron primary bevels are huge especially compared to knife bevels.


Yeah eventually I want to get one just for convenience just because, freehand sharpening plane blades can be a bit tough. Especially huge ones like the one I'm restoring.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 2, 2021)

After the second coat. Almost ready for the the satin clear coat.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 2, 2021)

Here's what I've done so far. 

The wood on the handle looks really nice and dark. Rosewood maybe? I just put mineral oil on it. 






Not perfect, it's a wip.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 2, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Here's what I've done so far.
> 
> The wood on the handle looks really nice and dark. Rosewood maybe? I just put mineral oil on it.
> 
> ...


The handles could be Beech or Indian Rosewood. Stanley also introduced plastic handles in the late '60's. That plane looks to be in excellent condition. Looks like it also needs adjustment however. You should be producing full-width ribbon shavings,,, not chips. Reduce your blade depth until the bevel barely appears as you sight down the sole of the plane, and, close the throat a wee bit if possible. You also need a bench-stop to hold your board firmly in place.

Is that a #5 1/2 ? You can buy replacement irons for those planes, that are much thicker than the originals. Those can greatly reduce chatter. Many of the Stanley's can also benefit from filing the front-edge of the chip-breaker, to allow better contact with the blade. (iron). 

Very nice.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 2, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> The handles could be Beech or Indian Rosewood. Stanley also introduced plastic handles in the late '60's. That plane looks to be in excellent condition. Looks like it also needs adjustment however. You should be producing full-width ribbon shavings,,, not chips. Reduce your blade depth until the bevel barely appears as you sight down the sole of the plane, and, close the throat a wee bit if possible. You also need a bench-stop to hold your board firmly in place.
> 
> Is that a #5 1/2 ? You can buy replacement irons for those planes, that are much thicker than the originals. Those can greatly reduce chatter. Many of the Stanley's can also benefit from filing the front-edge of the chip-breaker, to allow better contact with the blade. (iron).
> 
> Very nice.


Not having a proper bench is the problem more than anything. Those chips were just from me adjusting the blade to get the depth right.


----------



## Rangen (Sep 2, 2021)

K.Bouldin said:


> I’m a fan of the pouring epoxy to level the bottom of the stone, then just sticking It to a flat piece of wood.



I've taxed my imagination to the utmost, and have not succeeded in visualizing how "pouring epoxy to level the bottom of the stone" would work. Would you describe the process?


----------



## spaceconvoy (Sep 2, 2021)

Rangen said:


> I've taxed my imagination to the utmost, and have not succeeded in visualizing how "pouring epoxy to level the bottom of the stone" would work. Would you describe the process?


Place the stone upside down on a level surface, wrap a few layers of painters tape tightly around the base, half on the stone and half sticking up like a fence. Pour epoxy into this temporary-tape-basin and use a toothpick to pop any bubbles, then let it dry, remove the tape, and sand down the funky edges.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 2, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> Place the stone upside down on a level surface, wrap a few layers of painters tape tightly around the base, half on the stone and half sticking up like a fence. Pour epoxy into this temporary-tape-basin and use a toothpick to pop any bubbles, then let it dry, remove the tape, and sand down the funky edges.


Now I'm confused.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 2, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Not having a proper bench is the problem more than anything. Those chips were just from me adjusting the blade to get the depth right.



You can make a simple bench-hook, and that'll work for planing many smaller pieces. Just a scrap of flat plywood or similar, Fasten a strip of wood (stopper) on one edge of the plywood, and another strip on the opposite end and opposite side of the plywood. That forms an "S". Now slip one of those stoppers against the side edge of your present work-surface, which'll keep the plywood from moving. The top stopper is now a "fence", against which you place the piece you want to plane. Just make sure that "fence is not too tall,,, you don't need much. As you plane stroking away from yourself, your plywood bench-hook can't move, and your work-piece is stabilized.

Here's a simple bench-hook;


----------



## spaceconvoy (Sep 2, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Now I'm confused.











Project #17 - Mounting Shiro-suita from Ohira-yama on a wooden support


A blog about knifemaking for beginners with DIY tips for kitchen, outdoor and hunting knives. Detailed description of projects, tools and processes.




matuskalisky.blogspot.com





Just found this, from Matus's blog with photos. He only does one corner but same principle


----------



## Delat (Sep 3, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Not having a proper bench is the problem more than anything. Those chips were just from me adjusting the blade to get the depth right.



I used to have a Lee Valley bench with end and side clamps. God I loved that thing! A bench is totally the most important tool in a woodworking setup.

BTW if you don’t have it, Garret Hack’s _The Handplane Book_ was the handplane bible back when I was into such things.

I always kinda sucked at handplanes though. Never really had the patience to either set them up properly or use them as intended. Buying an 8” jointer was truly a happy day in my woodworking life.


----------



## coxhaus (Sep 3, 2021)

Delat said:


> I used to have a Lee Valley bench with end and side clamps. God I loved that thing! A bench is totally the most important tool in a woodworking setup.
> 
> BTW if you don’t have it, Garret Hack’s _The Handplane Book_ was the handplane bible back when I was into such things.
> 
> I always kinda sucked at handplanes though. Never really had the patience to either set them up properly or use them as intended. Buying an 8” jointer was truly a happy day in my woodworking life.



8-inch jointer very nice. I have a couple of 6-inch jointers. I can't decide which one to part with. I really don't have the room. I have my Delta working well. My Jet plane I still have not tuned as nice yet. A good friend of mine gave me his Jet 6-inch plane. The top was rusted and he did not use it much. He really bought it for a job he did several years back.

Woodcraft did a nice hand plane class for free before covid that I went to. I have my old Grandfather's jack plane. I don't use it much but once in a while.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 3, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> Project #17 - Mounting Shiro-suita from Ohira-yama on a wooden support
> 
> 
> A blog about knifemaking for beginners with DIY tips for kitchen, outdoor and hunting knives. Detailed description of projects, tools and processes.
> ...


Ah ok. I tend to flatten the bottomes of my stones (plus they all came relatively level to some degree on the bottom. I was more worried about the cutout section of the base.


----------



## Grayswandir (Sep 5, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> You can make a simple bench-hook, and that'll work for planing many smaller pieces. Just a scrap of flat plywood or similar, Fasten a strip of wood (stopper) on one edge of the plywood, and another strip on the opposite end and opposite side of the plywood. That forms an "S". Now slip one of those stoppers against the side edge of your present work-surface, which'll keep the plywood from moving. The top stopper is now a "fence", against which you place the piece you want to plane. Just make sure that "fence is not too tall,,, you don't need much. As you plane stroking away from yourself, your plywood bench-hook can't move, and your work-piece is stabilized.
> 
> Here's a simple bench-hook;




Great video and right on time. I learned about bench hooks yesterday on Youtube (via your video, thank you!). What a great little piece of wood working technology. I think there's something called a shooting board as well, which is just a fancy bench hook.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 5, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> Great video and right on time. I learned about bench hooks yesterday on Youtube (via your video, thank you!). What a great little piece of wood working technology. I think there's something called a shooting board as well, which is just a fancy bench hook.



Yes, with simple bench-hooks you really don't need a dedicated work-bench with a vise and bench-dogs, and you can size them to do almost any surface-planing job you want. Two small bench-hooks for example, can do the same work as a large single bench-hook;,, just space them accordingly.

Shooting boards are cool too. They're mostly for end-grain work, and squaring the ends of boards. You pretty well need a shooting-board for serious cabinet-work,,,, even if you already own a fancy dedicated work-bench.

Woodworking with hand-planes is so satisfying. The finish you get on your work-piece is soooo smooth, and that finish just can't be matched by sanding. Mind you, you have to work "with" the wood-grain for best results.

If working with hand-tools strikes your fancy, check out some of the many videos posted by my old buddy, Rob Cosman. I first met Rob 30 years ago, and he really knows his stuff, and does incredibly fine work. Rob's a great teacher also. Others that might be of interest are David Charlsworth, and Paul Sellers.

Be fore-warned, getting into wood-working hand-tools can be totally addicting. Lee Valley Tools has a very nice and reasonably affordable selection of hi-end hand-planes with their "Veritas" line, and I've got a pretty decent collection from Lie-Nielsen Tool works. You can also restore old hand-planes that you find at yard-sales and flea markets, and that's a lot of fun too. Just inspect them carefully to avoid cracked soles and missing parts. Old Stanley Bedrocks and Bailey's are great if you can find them. Parts are often readily available.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 7, 2021)

Don't judge I'm still in the beginning phase of this one. Before I would normally show people. 

I'm wondering for carving out the curves on the bottom of this. Do you think a chisel is the best tool?




There's obviously a lot of work that still needs to go into this. 

Also if you're wondering its fir.


----------



## coxhaus (Sep 7, 2021)

I think it could be cut faster on a bandsaw. A drill press if you have a big bit. There are many ways to do things in wood working. A router table. A table saw with a dado blade.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 7, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Don't judge I'm still in the beginning phase of this one. Before I would normally show people.
> 
> I'm wondering for carving out the curves on the bottom of this. Do you think a chisel is the best tool?View attachment 141235
> 
> ...



What is it going to be? Another stone-holder? Are we looking at the top, or the bottom?

Knots can be a problem; they're very hard, and the core can dry and pop-out over time. Sealing it with shellac is often an acceptable fix.

If a chisel is what you've got, then a chisel will have to do; just remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. If you're going to hog out those domes, try cutting a line about 1/8" deep across the grain, from one side to the other,,, then do a second line parallel to the first,,, roughly the same width apart as your chisel's width. Flip your workpiece on its' side, and chisel out the material between the chiseled lines. Repeat as necessary. Do you have a hammer, or a mallet? or something you can tap your chisel-handle with? Gentle yet firm taps will do. You don't want to break your chisel handle.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 7, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Yes, with simple bench-hooks you really don't need a dedicated work-bench with a vise and bench-dogs, and you can size them to do almost any surface-planing job you want. Two small bench-hooks for example, can do the same work as a large single bench-hook;,, just space them accordingly.
> 
> Shooting boards are cool too. They're mostly for end-grain work, and squaring the ends of boards. You pretty well need a shooting-board for serious cabinet-work,,,, even if you already own a fancy dedicated work-bench.
> 
> ...


That's where I got the 5 1/2 I posted In this thread. The main thing I have left is fixing the iron.


coxhaus said:


> I think it could be cut faster on a bandsaw. A drill press if you have a big bit. There are many ways to do things in wood working. A router table. A table saw with a dado blade.


Unfortunately I dont have either.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 7, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> What is it going to be? Another stone-holder? Are we looking at the top, or the bottom?
> 
> Knots can be a problem; they're very hard, and the core can dry and pop-out over time. Sealing it with shellac is often an acceptable fix.
> 
> If a chisel is what you've got, then a chisel will have to do; just remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. If you're going to hog out those domes, try cutting a line about 1/8" deep across the grain, from one side to the other,,, then do a second line parallel to the first,,, roughly the same width apart as your chisel's width. Flip your workpiece on its' side, and chisel out the material between the chiseled lines. Repeat as necessary. Do you have a hammer, or a mallet? or something you can tap your chisel-handle with? Gentle yet firm taps will do. You don't want to break your chisel handle.


I do have a hammer. 

Also, yes another base for a different stone. This is the bottom. I wanted to make it a little fancier than the last one.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 7, 2021)

OK,,, although a hammer will do,,,, a wood mallet would be a better choice. That said, you can choke up on the hammer-handle by grabbing the handle close to the head, and doing light taps. Is your chisel-handle made of wood or plastic? That chisel looks similar to a Marples. They're not really designed for working with hammers/mallets. They're more for hand use. The metal is generally soft, and they can chip fairly easily.

Have you considered getting a wood rasp? If you're finding tools at a yard sale or flea market, chances are you'll find rasps and files there too. If you happen to find one branded "Auriou" or "Lioger",,,, jump on it.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 7, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> OK,,, although a hammer will do,,,, a wood mallet would be a better choice. That said, you can choke up on the hammer-handle by grabbing the handle close to the head, and doing light taps. Is your chisel-handle made of wood or plastic? That chisel looks similar to a Marples. They're not really designed for working with hammers/mallets. They're more for hand use. The metal is generally soft, and they can chip fairly easily.
> 
> Have you considered getting a wood rasp? If you're finding tools at a yard sale or flea market, chances are you'll find rasps and files there too. If you happen to find one branded "Auriou" or "Lioger",,,, jump on it.


Yeah a rasp is definitely a good idea. 

No the chisel is a stanley. It's some kind of plastic like polymer. Supposedly the handles are supposed to hold up well. Idk about the steel though. It does seem pretty soft.


----------



## coxhaus (Sep 7, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> That's where I got the 5 1/2 I posted In this thread. The main thing I have left is fixing the iron.
> 
> Unfortunately I dont have either.



My reply was only because you referenced it with best and you wanted to know.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 7, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> My reply was only because you referenced it with best and you wanted to know.


Ah. Yeah. I should have elaborated. Best for a broke ass mf, that only has a few hand tools.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 7, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Yeah a rasp is definitely a good idea.
> 
> No the chisel is a stanley. It's some kind of plastic like polymer. Supposedly the handles are supposed to hold up well. Idk about the steel though. It does seem pretty soft.



Yeah, those chisels were OEM chisels, and carried a lot of different brand-names. All they did was change the color of the handles. Blue was Marples' color. Stanley's were usually black w/yellow trim, or brown w/yellow trim, then there was Fuller, and Irwin, and many more. For most home-owners, they're fine for hand use. When you start using hammers and mallets, you want a beefier handle w/socket, and often with a metal ferrule at the butt of the handle. Some come with parallel sides, longer/thicker handles and blades, etc. There's a specific chisel for every task you can possibly think of.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 7, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Ah. Yeah. I should have elaborated. Best for a broke ass mf, that only has a few hand tools.



For a "broke-ass mf" I'd say you're doing a heckuva good job. Keep it up. Have you given any thought as to bedding your stones in the holder so they don't rock? (assuming your stones aren't dead-flat on the bottoms). One cheap solution might be a tube of clear silicone sealant. Just put a layer of plastic wrap in your stone holder, then cover it with just enough silicone sealant, then another layer of plastic wrap. (sealant sandwich). Before it hardens, place your stone into the holder, then let the silicone harden. The silicone should fill any voids between the stone's base and the base of the holder. After that's done, trim away any excess with a utility knife. Peel off the plastic wrap (optional). Just remember to orient your stone and the bedding in the same direction in case you have to remove it for cleaning, etc. Maybe color it with a marker on one corner of all three components.(holder/bedding/stone)


----------



## coxhaus (Sep 7, 2021)

Just use it and keep it sharp. You want to tap tap tap with your hammer.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 7, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> For a "broke-ass mf" I'd say you're doing a heckuva good job. Keep it up. Have you given any thought as to bedding your stones in the holder so they don't rock? (assuming your stones aren't dead-flat on the bottoms). One cheap solution might be a tube of clear silicone sealant. Just put a layer of plastic wrap in your stone holder, then cover it with just enough silicone sealant, then another layer of plastic wrap. (sealant sandwich). Before it hardens, place your stone into the holder, then let the silicone harden. The silicone should fill any voids between the stone's base and the base of the holder. After that's done, trim away any excess with a utility knife. Peel off the plastic wrap (optional). Just remember to orient your stone and the bedding in the same direction in case you have to remove it for cleaning, etc. Maybe color it with a marker on one corner of all three components.(holder/bedding/stone)


I've flattened the bottom of my stones so they sit pretty good in the bases.

As far as the chisels go. I need an upgrade. I've heard the Irwin actually have better steel, and are a bit different shape.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 7, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I've flattened the bottom of my stones so they sit pretty good in the bases.
> 
> As far as the chisels go. I need an upgrade. I've heard the Irwin actually have better steel, and are a bit different shape.



Frankly, the Irwins are probably the same chisel as what you presently have,,,, probably made in the same factory, then re-branded.

It's difficult for me to recommend a specific brand, without knowing precisely what you want to do with your chisels. There's sooo many types and categories out there. I've got turning chisels by Robert Sorby, carving chisels by Pfeil, bench, corner, and mortice chisel sets from Lie-Nielsen, and various Japanese chisels, plus an old set of Marples bench chisels.






Robert Sorby | High Quality Woodturning & Woodworking Tools


Manufacturer of the highest quality woodturning tools and accessories. Made in Sheffield, England UK.




www.robert-sorby.co.uk













Shop Pfeil Wood Carving Tools | Woodcraft


Find the #1 choice of woodcarvers and carpenters everywhere–pfeil Swiss made carving tools, chisels, knives, hatchets, sharpening stones and accessories at Woodcraft. Shop our large selection for all your wood carving and handling needs.




www.woodcraft.com










Chisels Lie-Nielsen Toolworks







www.lie-nielsen.com





I haven't bought chisels for over 20 years now, so there may be some that I'm not aware of, but,,, back in the day,,, Two Cherries were pretty reasonably priced and relatively high quality recommendations. I believe they're made by Hirsch. They're "firmer chisels", with hooped handles, for use with mallets. There are generally larger/longer than standard "bench" push-chisels. I do see some complaints about the Hirsch handle finish, and flattening the polished backs requiring extra work.



https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/chisels/bench/46403-hirsch-firmer-chisels



A quick look-around shows me that Wood River makes a nice set with socketed handles, at a very attractive price. They're probably worth a look. They're apparently a WoodCraft.com in-house brand. They also make some great looking hand-planes under the same brand. (Stanley replica's and more) I see that Rob Cosman (famous woodworker/teacher) also sells the WoodRiver socket-handled chisels, and Rob doesn't sell crap, so those would appear to be an attractive option at a very reasonable price. (not "cheap", but very good bang-for-the-buck) What's nice about "socket-handle" chisels is, the handles are easily replaceable.






Woodcraft Introduces Brand-New Bevel Edge Socket Chisels


A new Bevel Edge Socket Chisel series is now part of the WoodRiver line of hand tools from Woodcraft.




www.woodcraft.com













Chisels


Sharing our fine woodworking hand tools and woodworking classes with the world. We design and make fine hand tools and deliver quality instructions. Learn more!




robcosman.com


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 7, 2021)

*

this is what made me say that. Of course wranglestar isn't exactly the authority on chisels. But he seems to like them more than his sweethearts, and says the steel feels harder. *


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 7, 2021)

I will say the idea of a Japanese chisel seems pretty attractive to me. Because of the easier sharpening.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 8, 2021)

Here's a cool video from Master Craftsman Paul Sellers. Paul buys a 4-piece chisel set for £8. then sharpens with a very basic wet/dry silicon carbide sandpaper set-up.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 8, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Here's a cool video from Master Craftsman Paul Sellers. Paul buys a 4-piece chisel set for £ 5. then sharpens with a very basic wet/dry silicon carbide sandpaper set-up.



I've heard those aldi chisels aren't too bad for the price. They stopped selling them I heard.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 8, 2021)

Yay!!!! Its finally ready! Except some small cosmetic things.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 8, 2021)

You're getting there,,, but you still have a way to go. You should be able to get muuuuch thinner shavings; see-through willowy wisps, and not so tightly curled. With your planes' current set-up. are you able to freely spin the blade-depth adjustment wheel as you plane, without having to touch the lever-cap? You should be able to freely extend and fully retract the blade without having to loosen the lever-cap. If not, then you have to progressively loosen the lever-cap screw until you can. The lever should not require force to lock/unlock. It should be snug, but no more than that. This will also allow you to easily tilt the blade (iron) left or right, using your lateral adjustment lever, without having to release the lever-cap, and, adjust the cutting depth as you go. Always start with the blade retracted,,, then progressively advance the depth, bit by bit as you go, until you start getting ultra-thin and narrow shavings. Continue advancing in tiny increments until you get full-width shavings.

Also, the tight "curlies" might be caused by having your cap-iron a little too close to the edge of the blade. You might also need to close the mouth somewhat, by advancing the frog. Closing that mouth will also help avoid tear-out, especially in difficult grain situations.

How thin is "thin"??? Well, you should be able to hold a shaving in front of you, and as you release it, the shaving "floats" to the floor. See-through gossamer shavings. 1/1000". Copy paper is usually about 4/1000".


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 8, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> You're getting there,,, but you still have a way to go. You should be able to get muuuuch thinner shavings; see-through willowy wisps, and not so tightly curled. With your planes' current set-up. are you able to freely spin the blade-depth adjustment wheel as you plane, without having to touch the lever-cap? You should be able to freely extend and fully retract the blade. If not, then you have to progressively loosen the lever-cap screw until you can. The lever should not require force to lock/unlock. It should be snug, but no more than that. This will also allow you to easily tilt the blade (iron) left or right, using your lateral adjustment lever, without having to release the lever-cap, and adjust the cutting depth as you go. Always start with the blade retracted,,, then progressively advance the depth, bit by bit as you go, until you start getting ultra-thin and narrow shavings. Continue advancing in tiny increments until you get full-width shavings.
> 
> Also, the tight "curlies" might be caused by having your cap-iron a little too close to the edge of the blade. You might also need to close the mouth somewhat, by advancing the frog. Closing that mouth will also help avoid tear-out, especially in tough grain situations.


I have it setup to take off a lot. I want to use my block plane as my smoothing plane. This one I want to use almost like a scrub plane.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 8, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> You're getting there,,, but you still have a way to go. You should be able to get muuuuch thinner shavings; see-through willowy wisps, and not so tightly curled. With your planes' current set-up. are you able to freely spin the blade-depth adjustment wheel as you plane, without having to touch the lever-cap? You should be able to freely extend and fully retract the blade without having to loosen the lever-cap. If not, then you have to progressively loosen the lever-cap screw until you can. The lever should not require force to lock/unlock. It should be snug, but no more than that. This will also allow you to easily tilt the blade (iron) left or right, using your lateral adjustment lever, without having to release the lever-cap, and, adjust the cutting depth as you go. Always start with the blade retracted,,, then progressively advance the depth, bit by bit as you go, until you start getting ultra-thin and narrow shavings. Continue advancing in tiny increments until you get full-width shavings.
> 
> Also, the tight "curlies" might be caused by having your cap-iron a little too close to the edge of the blade. You might also need to close the mouth somewhat, by advancing the frog. Closing that mouth will also help avoid tear-out, especially in difficult grain situations.


I'll move the cap iron back a bit. I heard you want it as close as you can get it.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 8, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I have it setup to take off a lot. I want to use my block plane as my smoothing plane. This one I want to use almost like a scrub plane.



Understood, but I'm not sure that's a good way to go. Mind you, you're apparently working with smaller pieces of wood.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 8, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I'll move the cap iron back a bit. I heard you want it as close as you can get it.



Yes, that's true, to the extent where your shavings don't block the throat. Mind you, if you move it back too much, you can get blade-chatter, and that causes tear-out, so, you want the right balance.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 8, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Yes, that's true, to the extent where your shavings don't block the throat. Mind you, if you move it back too much, you can get blade-chatter, and that causes tear-out, so, you want the right balance.


When I'm done with work, I'll try moving it back a hair, and see how it goes. Right now its probably a mm from the edge


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 8, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> When I'm done with work, I'll try moving it back a hair, and see how it goes. Right now its probably a mm from the edge



The radius of the shaving, is largely determined by the distance between the blade-edge, and the front of the chip-breaker. The shorter the deflection-distance, the tighter the "curly". Set it too far back, and you get chatter and possible tear-out. Tear-out can be reduced by adjusting the frog forward, to close the mouth somewhat.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 10, 2021)

I'm so close to having this thing completely flat. Its useable in this state (and even how it was before this session) but still. I won't be satisfied until its completely flat.




Also I've noticed the shaving is coming out fine then its hitting the part I circled below, then that is where it is curling up. 





I'm getting great results, and it isn't clogging. The frog is as far back as it will go, and I moved the chip break back until I couldn't put it on without the blade sticking out, and it still curling up. 
I mean, the actual finish is great, and I feel like it's working just fine otherwise.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 11, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I'm so close to having this thing completely flat. Its useable in this state (and even how it was before this session) but still. I won't be satisfied until its completely flat.View attachment 141753
> 
> 
> Also I've noticed the shaving is coming out fine then its hitting the part I circled below, then that is where it is curling up.
> ...



That's great news. Getting to know how it reacts to different woods and difficult grain is part of the joy in using a great hand-plane. The tiniest adjustments can make a world of difference.

Have you got any extra plane-irons?

Earlier, you mentioned you'd like a scrub plane, and those tend to be much narrower than a #5-1/2, (1.45" blade width). The planes' throat is also much larger to accommodate larger/thicker chips.

There's no cap-iron, no lateral adjuster, no depth adjuster, no "lever" cap (screw-type instead) and the blade is usually much thicker. Typical radius of the cutting edge is 3". You also have to be wary about tear-out on the far side of the board you're planing. Lateral and depth adjustments are made with a small hammer or mallet. Scrub planes also do not give you a "finished" surface. They're purely for stock removal, so you still need a smoothing-plane to smooth/finish your surface. 

Bottom line; your #5-1/2 looks to be in such great condition, it would be a shame to modify it. You'd probably be better off modifying a beat-up #3 or a #4 that's not in such a great shape.

Here's some nice shots of a vintage #40-1/2.









STANLEY No. 40 1/2 Scrub Plane SWEETHEART - 79675


1 1/2 inch SWEETHEART logo iron.




www.jimbodetools.com





Here's Lie-Nielsen's #40-1/2









No. 40-1/2 Scrub Plane


No. 40-1/2 Scrub Plane A scrub plane is designed to quickly remove large quantities of wood. Based on the Stanley 40 1/2, the open throat and curved blade allow you to take deep cuts with ease. Our Scrub Plane can quickly thickness rough sawn boards or cut stock to width before following with a...




www.lie-nielsen.com


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 11, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> That's great news. Getting to know how it reacts to different woods and difficult grain is part of the joy in using a great hand-plane. The tiniest adjustments can make a world of difference.
> 
> Have you got any extra plane-irons?
> 
> ...


Yeah. I decided against making it a scrub plane. I'll just keep it as a jack plane, or whatever you would call something like the 5 1/2. 

I got some other good news. So you know how I was saying I had the frog all the way back? I had it set up like that from the beginning. That was what was causing the curly shavings. I finally brought it much further forward. I've been getting some different results finally.


----------



## Grayswandir (Sep 11, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> That's great news. Getting to know how it reacts to different woods and difficult grain is part of the joy in using a great hand-plane. The tiniest adjustments can make a world of difference.
> 
> Have you got any extra plane-irons?
> 
> ...


 I'm going to build a little box for a Nakayama I just acquired. It's a thin stone at .40", and I was looking at the planes they have at Harbor Freight. They look decent enough. I've bough a lot of tools from Harbor Freight, and some of them have turned out to be a great bargain.

No.33 Bench Plane

And what about these:

Mini Brass Plane Set, 3pc.

I'm asking because I have no experience with planes and I don't have a lot of cash to spend on new tools right now.

Would either of these planes be sufficient in helping me build a box for my stone (5"x3")?

There's also one more option at Harbor Freight:

No. 4 Jack and Mini Plane Set 2 Pc

I'd appreciate any advice you or anyone else would offer me.

Thanks,

-grayswandir.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 11, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Yeah. I decided against making it a scrub plane. I'll just keep it as a jack plane, or whatever you would call something like the 5 1/2.
> 
> I got some other good news. So you know how I was saying I had the frog all the way back? I had it set up like that from the beginning. That was what was causing the curly shavings. I finally brought it much further forward. I've been getting some different results finally.
> View attachment 141782



Yes,yes, yes. That's looking MUCH better.

Now, you've probably watched the video's where the user is getting those beautiful full-length, full width shavings,,,, Well, those guys are planing "with" the grain of the wood, and using quarter-sawn lumber. Reading the grain is an important part of avoiding tear-out and jerkyness as you push the plane. You can also skew the plane slightly as you push forward, and, you can also add a "squiggle" of bee's wax to the sole to lower the resistance.

The name "Jack" Plane, usually refers to "Jack-of-all-trades". It's great for smoothing,,,, it;s long enough for jointing, works great in a shooting board for squaring the end of a board,,, trims and chamfers end-grain and tilted/angled on its' side, it makes a great straight-edge visual-reference for checking dips and bumps on your board. VERY versatile plane. If I had only one plane, it would be the #5-1/2. It's not designed however, for mortise and tenon work, where you need the blade ( the iron), to run across the full width of the plane. That's where a shoulder plane or a rabbet-plane comes in.









Medium Shoulder Plane







www.lie-nielsen.com













No. 10-1/4 Bench Rabbet Plane


No. 10-1/4 Bench Rabbet Plane Also known as a Carriage Maker’s or Jack Rabbet Plane, this is the largest rabbet plane made. Based on the Stanley 10¼, which went out of production in the mid-1940s, we modified the design to fit the Bedrock format. Adjustable side nickers make clean, cross-grain...




www.lie-nielsen.com


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 11, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> I'm going to build a little box for a Nakayama I just acquired. It's a thin stone at .40", and I was looking at the planes they have at Harbor Freight. They look decent enough. I've bough a lot of tools from Harbor Freight, and some of them have turned out to be a great bargain.
> 
> No.33 Bench Plane
> 
> ...



Hi Grayswandir,

I'll add a bit more to this reply later,,,, a bit busy for the moment. Here's a review of the Harbour Freight #33, and you may find it useful. Just remember as you watch this video, that this guy is planing all straight-grained and quarter-sawn lumber, including very soft poplar. Typically, these "bargain" planes tend to need a lot of fettling out of the box. The soles usually have to be ground flat,,, the plane-iron properly sharpened,,, etc. Blades can be of dubious quality and hardness. If you know how to overcome these issues, you can get acceptable results 'if" that size and style of plane suits your specific needs. Personally,,, for $10.,,,, I'd buy one in a heart-beat, and use it for cleaning up glue-line squeeze-out when joining edges of boards together. You can barely buy a decent bench-chisel for $10.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 11, 2021)

Grayswandir, I just looked at the Harbour Freight 3" brass mini-plane set and the No.4 jack-plane and block-plane set, and here are some reviews.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 12, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> I'm going to build a little box for a Nakayama I just acquired. It's a thin stone at .40", and I was looking at the planes they have at Harbor Freight. They look decent enough. I've bough a lot of tools from Harbor Freight, and some of them have turned out to be a great bargain.
> 
> I'm asking because I have no experience with planes and I don't have a lot of cash to spend on new tools right now.
> 
> ...



Grayswandir,

In order to give you sound advice, I'd need more information. Planes may not be the best solution for your particular project. Are you looking to make a simple holder, or, a storage box with a lid, etc. Have you got a particular design in mind? Do you have a particular wood that you'd like to use? Do you know where you can get or buy that wood? Will you be using the Nakayama inside or on that box/holder as you sharpen?? Will the stone be wet when it's stored? Will the holder require vent holes and/or drainage? A saw and a chisel plus a sanding-block may be all you really need.

For your design, consider what happens as you use your holder. How are you planning to keep it from moving around as you stroke? Will it be elevated off your kitchen counter? With "feet", or "no feet". Perhaps a non-slip pad glued to the bottom? Will the top resemble a tray with no sides?

That's a lot of questions, with answers yet to be determined. Nothing beats having a good plan before proceeding. If you can build it on paper,,,, you can build most anything.


----------



## Grayswandir (Sep 12, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Grayswandir,
> 
> In order to give you sound advice, I'd need more information. Planes may not be the best solution for your particular project. Are you looking to make a simple holder, or, a storage box with a lid, etc. Have you got a particular design in mind? Do you have a particular wood that you'd like to use? Do you know where you can get or buy that wood? Will you be using the Nakayama inside or on that box/holder as you sharpen?? Will the stone be wet when it's stored? Will the holder require vent holes and/or drainage? A saw and a chisel plus a sanding-block may be all you really need.
> 
> ...



Hello,

Thank you for the help thus far.

I have a nice coticule I plan on making a box for (7.0"x1.63"x0.80") but I haven't picked out any wood yet. I'm probably not going to use a really nice wood, but I could change my mind. The box will be small, so a good piece of wood probably wouldn't be very expensive.

I want to make a base for a Nakayama Awasedo (razor hone) that measures 5.38"x2.93"x0.39".

I also have a nice Ohira Koppa that measures 5.70"x3.54"x0.96" (the thickness varies from left to right and top to bottom by about .20"). The upper right hand corner (on the bottom) angles sharply up towards the right outside corner & edge, so I'd have to make a wedge in order to level out the stone. I might make boxes for all three, but for right now, I want to make a base for the Nakayama because it's so thin.

A base would offer some protection to the Nakayama, and the stone would sit higher in my hand, so honing while holding the stone would be much easier. It's really too thin to hone with it while holding it without attaching a wooden base, or some composite material.

I have some cheap chisels (somewhere) but I need to find them and sharpen them before they're fit for purpose. They'd be fine for making a base, but when I make a box for the coticule, I'd like to have a plane so the wood joins up perfectly.

The boxes would be more for storage and protection. The bases would have to be water resistant, so I would have to choose the right finish and the correct type of wood I suppose, unless I just want to go cheap and enter "get er' done" territory.

-gray.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 13, 2021)

Hi Grayswandir,

I'll help you in any way I can, however, be aware that I've never built a stone box nor a stone holder. Box construction is pretty basic,,,,, if you know how,,,, and if you have the right tools for the job. Working with "mini-tools" would be a nightmare.... even when the item you're making is "mini". If you've never flattened the backs of chisels, and you don't yet have a plane (or two), you might be quite surprised at what's involved. You need to have the ability to secure your work-pieces as you work, and you need the ability to make accurate/precise and uniform cuts.

Generally, when you buy your wood, it'll come already planed on both sides (S2S) surface-planed on 2-sides). It's often sold in units of "board-foot" and a 1 board- foot piece that's 6" wide and 1" thick, will be 2 feet long (1" thick x 1/2ft wide x 2ft long =1 board-foot. That would probably be more than enough wood for your needs,,, depending on what you finally want it to be. Also, since a 1" thick board refers to rough thickness (before being surfaced) it may actually be 7/8" thick if it's surfaced on one side, or, 3/4" thick if it's been planed (surfaced) on both sides.

Teak would probably be your best bet where water resistance is important. Treated Cypress might also work and treated cedar may be another option.

*Now this is very important*,,,,,, if you try to cut a short board on a table-saw of some sort, you have to *be very very very careful to avoid kick-back*. I can't overstate that enough. This can be very dangerous without the proper tools and skill-set. *You can be seriously injured in the wink of an eye*. How does "kick-back" happen? Well, as you feed let's say an 8" long board into a 10" saw, the first cut happens at the front of the blade which is rotating downward.. As you feed that board out the back of the blade, that portion of the blade is rotating upward at a very high rate of speed, well over 100mph. If that saw and its' fence are not properly aligned, you'll pinch the wood between the blade and fence, and that saw blade will kick that workpiece right back at you. People have been impaled and died from such accidents. A cross-cut sled is a much safer bet when working with shorter pieces, because there's no fence to trap the wood between the fence and blade.


----------



## Grayswandir (Sep 13, 2021)

The video on kickback was interesting, even though I don't own a table saw, nor have I ever used one. It's always good to learn about what can go wrong, especially when it comes to your safety or the safety of others. As I got older, I became much more interested in safety. Now I preach it to my children in all things. Having said that, I still do stupid things from time to time, and I have the scars to prove it! 

I thought about cedar and cypress, even acacia, but honestly, if I had some good scrap wood lying around, I'd use it. I can always add a waterpoof/resistant finish. It might not be ideal, but it's better then no protection at all. My choice of wood really depends on whether or not I plan to make a box that will last 100 years, or just something I need to kick around for a few years. I still haven't decided yet, but I'll probably go with something in the middle.

I'm going to make a base for the Nakayama first. A single piece of wood about 7" long should do it. I'll chisel out the wood so the stone is recessed into the top a little bit. Honestly, now that I think about it, the base could simply be the bottom of a box, if I choose to make it so.

I have the tools to lap the heel of the plane I'll eventually buy if I need to, and I have a circular saw, coping saw, hand saw, etc. so cutting the wood will not be a problem. Same deal in regards to sharpening chisels, I'll be fine, though if I need some advice I'll certainly ask.

There's so much I'd like to do, but I don't have the space or the money to do everything I'd like to at the moment. I just watched a cool little video on a bench hook last week that someone posted here. It made me want to go out and buy the materials needed to make one! I do all of my work at my desk. I don't have a proper bench at the moment. When I need more space, I pull out some saw horses and get to work. I have a decent bench vice, so when I plane the wood, that should do nicely.

I need to stop reading Paul Seller's blog, and stop watching his videos. The guy is addictive!


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 13, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> The video on kickback was interesting, even though I don't own a table saw, nor have I ever used one. It's always good to learn about what can go wrong, especially when it comes to your safety or the safety of others. As I got older, I became much more interested in safety. Now I preach it to my children in all things. Having said that, I still do stupid things from time to time, and I have the scars to prove it!
> 
> I thought about cedar and cypress, even acacia, but honestly, if I had some good scrap wood lying around, I'd use it. I can always add a waterpoof/resistant finish. It might not be ideal, but it's better then no protection at all. My choice of wood really depends on whether or not I plan to make a box that will last 100 years, or just something I need to kick around for a few years. I still haven't decided yet, but I'll probably go with something in the middle.
> 
> ...



Yes, Paul Sellers is a true hand-tool master. David Charlsworth is another master-craftsman you might want to look into. Rob Cosman also ranks right up there.

Just a thought here, when you design the "box", if you go that route,,, you'll want to decide whether the bottom edge of the lid sits atop the base, or whether it wraps around the base. If it wraps around the base, you'll want to add side cut-outs in the sides of the lid in order for your fingers to grasp and lift the base and lid as one single unit.

Frankly, I don't see much point in using a plane if you go with pre-surface-finished wood. If you go with "whatever is laying around", then you'll possibly have to contend with knots and and wild grain-direction. You might want to do an advance mock-up/ prototype to see where that takes you, before proceeding to the final product.

Regarding support for the underside of your uneven stone,, the only thing I can think of off-hand, is adding a layer of plastic-wrap to the top of your base, then adding a layer of clear silicone-sealant, covered by another layer of plastic-wrap. Place your stone atop the silicon-sandwich, and the sealant will even out and harden, filling in the voids. That would be a water-proof solution, and cheap as well as easy to do. Once it hardens, you can easily trim it with a utility knife. The plastic wrap will prevent the silicone from sticking to the wooden base, and the under-side of your stone. You'll also want to secure the stone so that the top surface of the stone is parallel to the top of the base as the silicone hardens.


----------



## Grayswandir (Sep 14, 2021)

> Regarding support for the underside of your uneven stone,, the only thing I can think of off-hand, is adding a layer of plastic-wrap to the top of your base, then adding a layer of clear silicone-sealant, covered by another layer of plastic-wrap. Place your stone atop the silicon-sandwich, and the sealant will even out and harden, filling in the voids. That would be a water-proof solution, and cheap as well as easy to do. Once it hardens, you can easily trim it with a utility knife. The plastic wrap will prevent the silicone from sticking to the wooden base, and the under-side of your stone. You'll also want to secure the stone so that the top surface of the stone is parallel to the top of the base as the silicone hardens.



That's an interesting idea! I might just try that, sounds like a good way to make the stone sit level in the box.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 14, 2021)

The only concern I have with that particular idea, is the drying-time/hardening of the silicone when it's between the two layers of plastic wrap. (no air circulation to aid hardening) Mind you, that silicone layer would be quite thin, so it may only require an extra day or two. That's one reason you might want to build a prototype first. You wouldn't necessarily need to use your good wood or stone for that experiment. The goal there is simply to determine how the silicone reacts and hardens between the plastic wrap layers.

There's so many ways you can go about this. One way could be building a separate box for storage. You'd mount your stone to a simple flat base which could be hand-held, and when you're done sharpening, you could store your base/stone inside that box. The box itself could take many forms; for example; it could be a fancy box with a lid that flips open (hinges),,,,, or, the box could be a simple sleeve,,, open on one end or one side,,, allowing you to slide the base/stone into the box. Another option could be using the top of that separate box as a platform for elevating your stone/base. Just sit that separate stone/base right on top of the box. All sorts of possibilities.


----------



## Grayswandir (Sep 15, 2021)

I'mm thinking about using magnets, rather then the more tradition clasp. I think the simple base can become the bottom of the box.


----------



## jwthaparc (Sep 19, 2021)

@Bobby2shots thanks for all the help. I'm feeling like I'm starting to get a handle on all this woodworking stuff (at least understanding it).

I ended up finding an old no. 4 and restoring it as well. The guy that sold it to me said he restored it already, which was a lie. He covered it in shellac or something. I had to remove all of it, along with all the rust. Then go about flattening and all the normal parts of fixing a plane up. 

I'll post some pictures of it after the repairs tomorrow if I remember. 
















At least it was in better condition than it looked, and had a lot less pitting than my 5 1/2


----------



## Bobby2shots (Sep 19, 2021)

Well, it looks to me like you're scoring some great iron.  This thread has kinda rejuvenated my interest as well. It's been too long since I've spent time in the shop.

Rejuvenating older hand-planes is just a great pass-time, and as long as they're not seriously damaged, such as a crack in the sole, next to the mouth, then you're usually OK. Parts are readily available, including some great plane-irons from companies like Lee Valley Tools. Hock is another outfit that sells upgraded irons. Rust is the least of your worries, and even the worst cases can easily be taken care of with electrolysis.
FWIW, I'm becoming a Paul Sellers fan too. Watching him working with wood, is much like watching Jacques Pepin working with food. No wasted motion, and perfection at every step of the way. Demanding only the best from their efforts.

That No.4 should be a joy to use once it's shown a little TLC. Since the blade is narrower than the 5-1/2, it's also easier to push through a cut. It would also be a much better choice than the 5-1/2 for converting to a scrub-plane,,, but you'd have to open the throat considerably. I'd continue using the #4 as a smoother, and wait for a decent #3 to come along if you need a scrub-plane. Or, better yet, wait for an actual scrub to come along. (#40). Scrub planes are not expensive, and narrower blade of the #40 is probably your best bet compared to a wider #40-1/2. (easier to push through rough lumber.

One thing you'll have to check into when working with hand-planes, is "winding sticks". You'll need those to visually check into your progress as you thickness-plane and flatten a board. All you need are two straight edges, and place them at opposite ends of the board you're working on. You simply bend down and see how the top edges of those winding sticks line up. So simple, yet so effective.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Oct 4, 2021)

Uh oh,,,, it looks like I never should have read this thread,,,,,,; I've got the "fever",,,, again. Thanks to Paul Sellers, I'll be ordering a Veritas Large Router plane next week from Lee Valley Tools, and, as soon as they're back in stock, I'll be ordering a couple more Veritas large tenon saws. (filed rip and crosscut). I'm thinking of rebuilding my workbench to the classic English Joiners' (Cabinet-Maker) style. I've already got a couple of the older Record vises (7" and a 9") with "dogs", and I need to locate a source for quality straight-grained lumber, or, I may go with a laminated plywood top.

Yesterday, while digging around in my closets, I found a cardboard box with a few "treasures" that I had mostly forgotten about; two Lie-Nielsen leather tool-rolls with a complete set of Lie-Nielsen screwdrivers in one pouch, and a bunch of Lie-Nielsen bevel-edge socket chisels in the other. The screwdrivers are patterned after gun-smith screwdrivers, and precisely fit the screw-slots on every hand-plane and backsaw Lie-Nielsen makes. Curly-maple handles,,, they're gorgeous. The chisels are A2 tool steel.

In the same box was a couple of Japanese chisels, a Lie-Nielsen square, and a Lie-Nielsen round-head mallet.


----------



## Grayswandir (Oct 4, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Uh oh,,,, it looks like I never should have read this thread,,,,,,; I've got the "fever",,,, again. Thanks to Paul Sellers, I'll be ordering a Veritas Large Router plane next week from Lee Valley Tools, and, as soon as they're back in stock, I'll be ordering a couple more Veritas large tenon saws. (filed rip and crosscut). I'm thinking of rebuilding my workbench to the classic English Joiners' (Cabinet-Maker) style. I've already got a couple of the older Record vises (7" and a 9") with "dogs", and I need to locate a source for quality straight-grained lumber, or, I may go with a laminated plywood top.
> 
> Yesterday, while digging around in my closets, I found a cardboard box with a few "treasures" that I had mostly forgotten about; two Lie-Nielsen leather tool-rolls with a complete set of Lie-Nielsen screwdrivers in one pouch, and a bunch of Lie-Nielsen bevel-edge socket chisels in the other. The screwdrivers are patterned after gun-smith screwdrivers, and precisely fit the screw-slots on every hand-plane and backsaw Lie-Nielsen makes. Curly-maple handles,,, they're gorgeous. The chisels are A2 tool steel.
> 
> ...


Very nice, beautiful handles.


----------



## coxhaus (Oct 5, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Uh oh,,,, it looks like I never should have read this thread,,,,,,; I've got the "fever",,,, again. Thanks to Paul Sellers, I'll be ordering a Veritas Large Router plane next week from Lee Valley Tools, and, as soon as they're back in stock, I'll be ordering a couple more Veritas large tenon saws. (filed rip and crosscut). I'm thinking of rebuilding my workbench to the classic English Joiners' (Cabinet-Maker) style. I've already got a couple of the older Record vises (7" and a 9") with "dogs", and I need to locate a source for quality straight-grained lumber, or, I may go with a laminated plywood top.
> 
> Yesterday, while digging around in my closets, I found a cardboard box with a few "treasures" that I had mostly forgotten about; two Lie-Nielsen leather tool-rolls with a complete set of Lie-Nielsen screwdrivers in one pouch, and a bunch of Lie-Nielsen bevel-edge socket chisels in the other. The screwdrivers are patterned after gun-smith screwdrivers, and precisely fit the screw-slots on every hand-plane and backsaw Lie-Nielsen makes. Curly-maple handles,,, they're gorgeous. The chisels are A2 tool steel.
> 
> ...



Those chisels look nice kind of like my Stanley 750 Sweartheart chisels I bought when they first came out a few years ago. A couple of mine needed a lot of work to flatten the backs.


----------



## PalmRoyale (Oct 5, 2021)

Okay, so here's how I do the base thing and I'm a shipwright so I know a thing or two about joining materials. First, seal the bottom and sides of the stone, preferably with epoxy resin and let it cure. If the bottom of the stone is uneven, lightly sand the cured epoxy on the bottom, make a raised edge with masking tape, make another batch of epoxy resin and pour it on the stone. Let the epoxy cure, remove the tape and sand the epoxy layer flat. Now you can glue it to whatever you want. I prefer MS Polymer sealant because it's high strength, it says somewhat flexible and it's waterproof.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Oct 11, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> Those chisels look nice kind of like my Stanley 750 Sweartheart chisels I bought when they first came out a few years ago. A couple of mine needed a lot of work to flatten the backs.



Actually, those Lie-Nielsen socket chisels are patterned directly after the old Stanley 750's. Unfortunately, the newer versions have not matched the quality of the originals. The Lie-Nielsens are more expensive, but you get the choice of A2 and O1 steels (when available) and the backs are flat out of the box.


----------

