# Not sharp off of the stone, but is sharp off of leather strop



## MarshallCS (Oct 24, 2017)

Hello
I've been a lurker here for several months now, and I apprciate all of the knowledge on the forum.

I'm learning sharpening still (I want to say I'm a bit more than a beginner, but not advanced by any means.

I have Shun 400/1000 combo, Naniwa Superstone 1000 and 5000 stones, and I just got a jnat from Nutmeg.
I have a munetoshi nakiri , and a myabi artisan gyoto among other knives (purchased before I found this page)

I have been using the sharpee trick, as well as concentrating on holding a specific angle.

My concern comes from reading the forum, where people seem to be saying that they are able to get a really sharp edge coming off of the stones. I don't seem to be able to do that, but when I strop on the sueded side or the hard leather side of my strop, I get a nice sharp edge.

One of the things that I think might be an issue is that I find it difficult to raise a burr on the 1000 grit stone (or I can't feel it.) On a 400 grit stone I am able to raise a burr that I can feel, but not on the 1000. 

I've been stumped finding info on actual pressure levels to put on the stone when sharpening. I understand that you should use less and less pressure after you raise a burr on both sides, but I'm confused about the initial amount of pressure that I should use.

This is somewhat rambling, but I'm hoping that someone could shed some light on whether I'm on the right path or not, or if there are any specific recommendations.

Thanks so much!
Marshall


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## Konge (Oct 24, 2017)

I might have a little to weigh in with, being basically in the exact same situation as you (owned some nice knives before finding the site, just upgraded my stones + first jnat). First, this helped me with pressure: [video=youtube;GtatnyLz8YM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtatnyLz8YM[/video]

Secondly, what are your expectations of a really sharp edge? I know I have some unrealistic assumptions about what I want my knives to do. I think most here would refer to it as the difference between being really sharp and parlor trick sharp. Does it shave easily and make short work of paper after your 1k? Then I'd say that's a success, I certainly can't make it wafer-slice unsupported grapes off a 1k - but that might be my shortcoming, others will have to chime in with what they expect from edges off different grits. Do you start on the 1k when trying to raise a burr with it? I almost never reach for my very low grit stone unless I'm doing wide-bevel for the first time or doing actual repair work.


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## unprofessional_chef (Oct 24, 2017)

MarshallCS said:


> I have been using the sharpee trick, as well as concentrating on holding a specific angle.



When I sharpen I'm feeling and listening for the optimal angle between the bevel and stone.

Sharpie trick is for people that haven't developed this skill yet. It's to help them get in the ballpark angle to sharpen at.


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## nutmeg (Oct 24, 2017)

If your knife is in a not too bad condition you should get a solid burr on #1000 after less than 10 strokes.
I guess you should try to work with much pressure but very slow, like inspecting your edge after every stroke.
You should disperse the pressure equal over every centimeter of the blade, from tip to heel and heel to tip. 
After this Jnat you should be able to cut ripe raspberries cleanly.


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## K813zra (Oct 24, 2017)

MarshallCS said:


> Hello
> I've been a lurker here for several months now, and I apprciate all of the knowledge on the forum.
> 
> I'm learning sharpening still (I want to say I'm a bit more than a beginner, but not advanced by any means.
> ...



Sounds to me that you have a bit of a burr left and are pulling it off with the strop. 

As for pressure, for what it is worth I start out with about 4-5 pounds of pressure to raise a burr. After that I cut it in half and make a few passes on each side and then cut that in half and do it again. Then with just a bit more than the weight of the blade I strop a few times on the stone. I check for residual burr and if there is any then I go back to the stone. 

A test, strop on newsprint. It tears off a burr really easily. Not one sheet on your stone, the whole newspaper. You want to use no pressure as you don't want to round your edge, you are just checking to see if there was a bit of burr left. If using the paper does the same as the strop then I'd say you are reducing but not removing your burr on the stone.


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## frog13 (Oct 24, 2017)

This helps a lot of people, a couple short lessons well worth watching. https://www.knifeplanet.net/knife-sharpening-school-online-course/

I have the burr problem, also, sometimes I can't or can barley feel it on the 1K. For me, that is where pressure comes in, on the 1K, lighter and lighter. As was mentioned earlier, the sharpness is obtained on the 1K with a toothy edge, further refinement just makes it smoother, not sharper. It gives the illusion of sharper becasue of the smoothness. Also, check out Peter's comments about having good light and looking for reflection, I actually use a magnifying headset to look at my edges, it is surprising how yo will find a tiny burr or wire edge left. Stropping does help but I have found if you gt it completely done on the stone, maybe one stroke on each side on the strop just to clean the particles you can't see makes an amazing edge that lasts.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 24, 2017)

unprofessional_chef said:


> When I sharpen I'm feeling and listening for the optimal angle between the bevel and stone.
> 
> Sharpie trick is for people that haven't developed this skill yet. It's to help them get in the ballpark angle to sharpen at.



Actually, though the Sharpie trick can be used to adjust the angle, it's more to let you know when you've hit the apex.


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## unprofessional_chef (Oct 24, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Actually, though the Sharpie trick can be used to adjust the angle, it's more to let you know when you've hit the apex.



Do people keep applying sharpie every time to ensure they've hit the apex ? Once you lift the knife from stone to check how do you get it to hit the apex again?


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## MarshallCS (Oct 24, 2017)

That honestly was the best video I've seen!

I may have some unrealistic expectations - I know the out of box sharpness on the munetoshi was sharper than I have been able to achieve, but the factory edge lost that sharpness relatively quickly.







Konge said:


> I might have a little to weigh in with, being basically in the exact same situation as you (owned some nice knives before finding the site, just upgraded my stones + first jnat). First, this helped me with pressure: [video=youtube;GtatnyLz8YM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtatnyLz8YM[/video]
> 
> Secondly, what are your expectations of a really sharp edge? I know I have some unrealistic assumptions about what I want my knives to do. I think most here would refer to it as the difference between being really sharp and parlor trick sharp. Does it shave easily and make short work of paper after your 1k? Then I'd say that's a success, I certainly can't make it wafer-slice unsupported grapes off a 1k - but that might be my shortcoming, others will have to chime in with what they expect from edges off different grits. Do you start on the 1k when trying to raise a burr with it? I almost never reach for my very low grit stone unless I'm doing wide-bevel for the first time or doing actual repair work.


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## MarshallCS (Oct 24, 2017)

Thanks everyone! It really helps to know that other people have had some issues as well.

unprofessional-chef - I have used the sharpie trick multiple times when I was sharpening to make sure I was hitting the area's that I've wanted to earlier on, but since then I've learned to look at the sides in the light to see any odd reflections. I've never thought to look directly at the end vertically to see if there are any issues like in the video Konge posted.

Frog13 and K813zra - Thank you for actual general weights - I can check that with a kitchen scale to see if I'm anywhere in the ballpark.


I actually did the Myabi and a zakuri boning knife this morning after I posted. I started with the 400, which raised a burr on both sides that I could feel, and then I used lighter pressure to take off the burr with the 400 and then the 1k. Sometimes it feels like It gets sharper, than when I flip the blade over, it gets more dull again.


Thank you all for your help - I'll do another sharpening session again tonight or tomorrow and see if i can get that munetoshi a bit better using the tools that I've learned from y'all.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 24, 2017)

unprofessional_chef said:


> Do people keep applying sharpie every time to ensure they've hit the apex ? Once you lift the knife from stone to check how do you get it to hit the apex again?



Why would you keep sharpening once you've hit the apex? 

Yes, you certainly could reapply the marker as you change grits, especially when you are learning.


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## nutmeg (Oct 24, 2017)

I don't have any sound on my computer now but perfect repetivity of a move like a machine is the key:
[video=youtube;kFhMGJYhYpU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFhMGJYhYpU[/video]


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## unprofessional_chef (Oct 24, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Why would you keep sharpening once you've hit the apex?
> 
> Yes, you certainly could reapply the marker as you change grits, especially when you are learning.



Hitting the apex 5 out of 20 strokes with the sharpie trick is good. Hitting the apex 20 of 20 strokes because you know how to feel and listen for it is much better.

You need to keep hitting the apex on both sizes of the edge because the burr flips back and forth. Stropping on stone (to remove the burr) requires a very very precise controlled stropping motion at the angle that hits the apex.

IMO sharpie trick is just a guide to help find the angle to hit apex. You wouldn't use it all the time esp anyone that wants to get really good at sharpening.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 24, 2017)

unprofessional_chef said:


> Hitting the apex 5 out of 20 strokes with the sharpie trick is good. Hitting the apex 20 of 20 strokes because you know how to feel and listen for it is much better.
> 
> You need to keep hitting the apex on both sizes of the edge because the burr flips back and forth. Stropping on stone (to remove the burr) requires a very very precise controlled stropping motion at the angle that hits the apex.
> 
> IMO sharpie trick is just a guide to help find the angle to hit apex. You wouldn't use it all the time esp anyone that wants to get really good at sharpening.



When you are building muscle memory and learning what the knife feels and sounds like against the stone, the sharpie trick is invaluable. The visual feedback of the marker is the beginner's best aid to learning.

If you have a burr that is so big it flips, you're doing something wrong. Your goal should be to produce the smallest burr possible and then to reduce it on finer grit stones.

Yes, the sharpie trick can be viewed as a guide that has limited use once you have gained enough experience, but it is very useful until that stage is reached.


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## frog13 (Oct 24, 2017)

I think that's a good point. When the burr is small and doesn't flip but is still there, it turns into a fine wire edge. That edge is sharp, very sharp, for about the first two cuts or until it hits the board. That was a mistake I made a lot when starting out, I would be so proud for a minute.


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## K813zra (Oct 24, 2017)

frog13 said:


> I think that's a good point. When the burr is small and doesn't flip but is still there, it turns into a fine wire edge. That edge is sharp, very sharp, for about the first two cuts or until it hits the board. That was a mistake I made a lot when starting out, I would be so proud for a minute.



Been there! I had the same issue. I was so very happy with my new edge until it hit the board...lol. I don't know if everyone goes through this but I did and it was a driving factor in my wanting to be a better sharpener. Rather than get discouraged I put in more work...Now I sharpen 3-5 times a week just because. I think I have a problem.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 24, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Been there! I had the same issue. I was so very happy with my new edge until it hit the board...lol. I don't know if everyone goes through this but I did and it was a driving factor in my wanting to be a better sharpener. Rather than get discouraged I put in more work...Now I sharpen 3-5 times a week just because. I think I have a problem.



OSC. *O*bsessive *S*harpening *C*ompulsion. No known cure.


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## K813zra (Oct 24, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> OSD. *O*bsessive *S*harpening *C*ompulsion. No known cure.



The sharpening obsession isn't as bad as the sharpening stone obsession. I believe on the razor forums they call this HAD. But it has been years since I last checked in.


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## Marek07 (Oct 24, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> OSD. *O*bsessive *S*harpening *C*ompulsion. No known cure.


Thanks for the diagnosis Dr Rick. There might not be a cure but at least I now have a label for my condition. :wink:


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## frog13 (Oct 24, 2017)

K813zra said:


> The sharpening obsession isn't as bad as the sharpening stone obsession. I believe on the razor forums they call this HAD. But it has been years since I last checked in.


I don't know which of mine is the worst. I'm close to 100 knives now, sharpened about 80 for others in the last seven weeks while recovering from a hip replacement, did that on a czar paper holder along with some fifteen synthetics and a half dozen j-nats, the latest obsession. And don't get me going on the 15 or so cutting boards


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## MarshallCS (Oct 24, 2017)

This has happened to me as well - first time I tried to sharpen the Munetoshi - very disappointing. I think this was part of the reason why I started this thread.




frog13 said:


> I think that's a good point. When the burr is small and doesn't flip but is still there, it turns into a fine wire edge. That edge is sharp, very sharp, for about the first two cuts or until it hits the board. That was a mistake I made a lot when starting out, I would be so proud for a minute.


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## Razor (Oct 24, 2017)

Stropping is simply creating a micro-bevel and an improved apex where the apex was not yet finished. The Sharpie is great while you are learning or when you are fixing an edge you didn't f-up. But you need to learn to watch the undercut of the water on the stone. This will help you establish and maintain a proper angle and is one of many tells when the bevel is set and you are ready for the next step whatever that is. 

I recommend 6k+ stones for anyone obsessed with sharpening. That way at the end of the month you still have some steel left to sharpen


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## Eric (Oct 25, 2017)

I'm dumbfounded, I've been raising a bur with my 1000 grit store for years on all types of steal, geometies, and many different knives. If you cannot, than you are doing something wrong or you don't know how to id a burr. you should almost never need a 400 grit. Watch Jon's videos. there free.


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## K813zra (Oct 25, 2017)

Eric said:


> I'm dumbfounded, I've been raising a bur with my 1000 grit store for years on all types of steal, geometies, and many different knives. If you cannot, than you are doing something wrong or you don't know how to id a burr. you should almost never need a 400 grit. Watch Jon's videos. there free.



He probably is raising a burr but it is smaller and harder to detect. Particularly if he has worn or callused fingertips. In which case it might be prudent to test on the back of the fingernail or on a paper towel. Nut I agree, Jon's videos are a wonderful resource and I still go back to them from time to time.  Hell, I email Jon too! He is very helpful and eager to do so.  (A patient man, I tell you, because I am the type to question EVERYTHING.)


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## MarshallCS (Oct 25, 2017)

Eric said:


> I'm dumbfounded, I've been raising a bur with my 1000 grit store for years on all types of steal, geometies, and many different knives. If you cannot, than you are doing something wrong or you don't know how to id a burr. you should almost never need a 400 grit. Watch Jon's videos. there free.



I was hoping for some more constructive advice in this thread than this. We all have to start somewhere. I feel like I'm holding angles relatively well, but I have trouble feeling the 1k burr vs the 400 burr, which was readily apparent. 

I have thoroughly enjoyed Jon's videos, and will continue to watch them as refreshers.


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## MarshallCS (Oct 25, 2017)

K813zra said:


> He probably is raising a burr but it is smaller and harder to detect. Particularly if he has worn or callused fingertips. In which case it might be prudent to test on the back of the fingernail or on a paper towel. Nut I agree, Jon's videos are a wonderful resource and I still go back to them from time to time.  Hell, I email Jon too! He is very helpful and eager to do so.  (A patient man, I tell you, because I am the type to question EVERYTHING.)



I have very hard fingertips from being a violist for 20 years. I understand testing for biting into the fingernail, but how would I check for a burr on my fingernail?


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## unprofessional_chef (Oct 25, 2017)

MarshallCS said:


> I have very hard fingertips from being a violist for 20 years. I understand testing for biting into the fingernail, but how would I check for a burr on my fingernail?



Do you have sensitive feeling in other parts of your fingers? I can feel burrs after my finest stone which is the 4K King stone. You need to be able to feel the burrs so you know which side it's on or if it's been removed. Otherwise, you'll just straighten the burr on a leather strop and you'll have an edge that will deform after it makes contact with the cutting board.


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## K813zra (Oct 25, 2017)

MarshallCS said:


> I have very hard fingertips from being a violist for 20 years. I understand testing for biting into the fingernail, but how would I check for a burr on my fingernail?



If you drag the edge across your nail as if you were stropping you can feel the burr catch and release and repeat on your finger nail. It is like little vibrations. The same can be done with a paper towel, you can feel the burr snag.


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## MarshallCS (Oct 25, 2017)

Thank you both. I will have to focus on finding the burr quite a bit more. I probably would imagine that I won't get a burr on the 1k or higher than I would on the 400 (which was very much obvious)

I'll try my nail and further up on my fingers, as well as a paper towel. I'll keep working at it and give you an update! 

Thank you all!


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## RDalman (Oct 25, 2017)

I just found this page a couple of days ago, and really like this video, how fast and very over-clear he shows the full sharpening process. Big burr there 

http://cleancut.se/component/content/article?id=153


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Oct 25, 2017)

The SS5000 still mystifies me, it seems to have an odd way of sometimes leaving you with an "overpolished" behaving edge... wonder, though, why an unloaded strop would change that much - IF there is a connection?


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## MarshallCS (Oct 26, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> The SS5000 still mystifies me, it seems to have an odd way of sometimes leaving you with an "overpolished" behaving edge... wonder, though, why an unloaded strop would change that much - IF there is a connection?



I'm honestly not sure if I even like the super stones. Both the 1k and the 5k seem to get loaded up very quickly. I wish I would have used this forum more before I spent the money on them.

I'm not sure about the overpolishing that you are referring to... probably due to my inexperience. I do use a strop without compound


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## milkbaby (Oct 26, 2017)

RDalman said:


> I just found this page a couple of days ago, and really like this video, how fast and very over-clear he shows the full sharpening process. Big burr there
> 
> http://cleancut.se/component/content/article?id=153



I like the Google translate:
*A fine grindstone (> 3000 grains) does not remove much metal. It is used primarily to polish the egg and remove all the scratches from the previous moment. When the oak is completely glossy, it easily slides through the raw materials and has a straight blade sharpness, provided that the previous slip torque was performed correctly. *


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## Benuser (Oct 26, 2017)

An enrichment of our terminology, indeed.


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## valgard (Oct 26, 2017)

milkbaby said:


> I like the Google translate:
> *A fine grindstone (> 3000 grains) does not remove much metal. It is used primarily to polish the egg and remove all the scratches from the previous moment. When the oak is completely glossy, it easily slides through the raw materials and has a straight blade sharpness, provided that the previous slip torque was performed correctly. *



:rofl2:


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## RDalman (Oct 28, 2017)

milkbaby said:


> I like the Google translate:
> *A fine grindstone (> 3000 grains) does not remove much metal. It is used primarily to polish the egg and remove all the scratches from the previous moment. When the oak is completely glossy, it easily slides through the raw materials and has a straight blade sharpness, provided that the previous slip torque was performed correctly. *



Haha awesome.

Egg-edge
Ek-oak
Straight blade- rakblad (razor blade)
Slip torque I don't get the torque part but slipa-grind


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## Dave Martell (Oct 30, 2017)

Strops often fool us because they have give that a stone doesn't. This "give" in a strop rolls around the edge, straightens the edge a bit, and if the strop is loaded with a compound - abrades/refines the edge. These things make you think that you've improved the edge because it cuts paper better but when the edge hits the board it folds (or blunts) and you're back to square one. 

I suggest to keep away from the strops until you're absolutely 100% sure that you've created a burr along the entire edge on both sides. You have to look closely at the edge to see what you're doing and make corrections. Assuming will get you nothing but failure.


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## Dave Martell (Oct 30, 2017)

Tips for looking closely at the edge...

A sharp edge that has proper burr formation will not show glint of light at the apex.

In creating the edge you can use a Sharpie to show where you've hit but it's even better to be able to read the scratch pattern as it'll show you the new pattern being laid down by the stone you're working with against the old pattern left over from the last sharpening session.


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## MarshallCS (Oct 31, 2017)

Dave Martell said:


> Tips for looking closely at the edge...
> 
> A sharp edge that has proper burr formation will not show glint of light at the apex.
> 
> In creating the edge you can use a Sharpie to show where you've hit but it's even better to be able to read the scratch pattern as it'll show you the new pattern being laid down by the stone you're working with against the old pattern left over from the last sharpening session.





Dave Martell said:


> Strops often fool us because they have give that a stone doesn't. This "give" in a strop rolls around the edge, straightens the edge a bit, and if the strop is loaded with a compound - abrades/refines the edge. These things make you think that you've improved the edge because it cuts paper better but when the edge hits the board it folds (or blunts) and you're back to square one.
> 
> I suggest to keep away from the strops until you're absolutely 100% sure that you've created a burr along the entire edge on both sides. You have to look closely at the edge to see what you're doing and make corrections. Assuming will get you nothing but failure.



Thank you Mr. Martell. I'll definitely refrain from using a strop until I get my.edges better.

I really appreciate everyone's advice and knowledge!


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## Dave Martell (Oct 31, 2017)

MarshallCS said:


> Thank you Mr. Martell. I'll definitely refrain from using a strop until I get my.edges better.
> 
> I really appreciate everyone's advice and knowledge!




You can still use your strop but make sure that you've done all the stone work properly first so as to not add another variable to the mix.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Oct 31, 2017)

@MarshallCS the 5K is great for its near-mirror-polish-in-a-jiffy powers. Hate the way it feels to use it though - marmalade on a piece of board chalk ....


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## MarshallCS (Nov 1, 2017)

Just an update for everyone - 

I had a sharpening session tonight and I felt like I was able to get much sharper than I had previously. I used the Ohzuku Awasedo Asagi jnat (hs56.) I really focused on finding the burr and then gently removing it. I found that I had to use a lot more pressure initially than I had been before, and then gradually used less pressure after I got the burr. Looking very carefully at the edge I could see where I needed to work more.
It was great to be able to easily slice newspaper off of the stone, something I had not been able to do previously.


THank you all for you help, I really appreciate the support.


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## MarshallCS (Nov 1, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @MarshallCS the 5K is great for its near-mirror-polish-in-a-jiffy powers. Hate the way it feels to use it though - marmalade on a piece of board chalk ....



I think I understand what you mean. It also feels like it gums up with black spots on the stone really quickly. I wish I had done a bit more research on the stone to find something better


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## Dave Martell (Nov 1, 2017)

MarshallCS said:


> Just an update for everyone -
> 
> I had a sharpening session tonight and I felt like I was able to get much sharper than I had previously. I used the Ohzuku Awasedo Asagi jnat (hs56.) I really focused on finding the burr and then gently removing it. I found that I had to use a lot more pressure initially than I had been before, and then gradually used less pressure after I got the burr. Looking very carefully at the edge I could see where I needed to work more.
> It was great to be able to easily slice newspaper off of the stone, something I had not been able to do previously.
> ...




:doublethumbsup:


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## Benuser (Nov 1, 2017)

MarshallCS said:


> Just an update for everyone -
> 
> I had a sharpening session tonight and I felt like I was able to get much sharper than I had previously. I used the Ohzuku Awasedo Asagi jnat (hs56.) I really focused on finding the burr and then gently removing it. I found that I had to use a lot more pressure initially than I had been before, and then gradually used less pressure after I got the burr. Looking very carefully at the edge I could see where I needed to work more.
> It was great to be able to easily slice newspaper off of the stone, something I had not been able to do previously.
> ...



Be aware that with using some pressure you change the angle as well.


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## MarshallCS (Nov 1, 2017)

Benuser said:


> Be aware that with using some pressure you change the angle as well.



I'm not sure I understand your meaning. I'm holding the knife at a specific angle on the stone with one hand and applying pressure with the other that's pressing the blade to the stone.


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## Benuser (Nov 1, 2017)

With varying the amount of pressure you will touch the bevel under slightly different angles. So if you reduce pressure you will have to increase slightly the angle -- or raise the spine -- to reach the very edge. Am I clear?


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Nov 1, 2017)

@Benuser if you are talking about an edge that is nagelgängig, yes, it seems very logical.

I guess the extreme conclusion of too-light pressure would be accidentally sharpening a microbevel onto a tough burr instead of removing it


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## Benuser (Nov 1, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @Benuser if you are talking about an edge that is nagelgängig, yes, it seems very logical.
> 
> I guess the extreme conclusion of too-light pressure would be accidentally sharpening a microbevel onto a tough burr instead of removing it


Don't worry, no burr does resist any stone contact, it will flip. If you're dreaming of a micro-bevel in a wire edge that's reason for some concern.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Nov 1, 2017)

At times, usuba sharpening kind of felt like it


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## MarshallCS (Nov 2, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @Benuser if you are talking about an edge that is nagelgängig, yes, it seems very logical.
> 
> I guess the extreme conclusion of too-light pressure would be accidentally sharpening a microbevel onto a tough burr instead of removing it





Benuser said:


> Don't worry, no burr does resist any stone contact, it will flip. If you're dreaming of a micro-bevel in a wire edge that's reason for some concern.



I'm sorry I don't understand this part of the conversation. If I raise the spine, wouldn't I be rolling the edge over? Everything that I've read so far says that I should do everything possible to hold the same angle.


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## Benuser (Nov 2, 2017)

If you hold the same angle and exercise a lot of pressure, and reduce the pressure later on, you don't reach the very edge any more, and ask for a fat wire edge on top instead. So, raise the spine a bit as you reduce pressure.


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## Chef Doom (Nov 2, 2017)

If you cant raise a burr on your 1000 following a 400 either you are not removing the burr properly in between stones or your 1000 stone sucks monkey balls.


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## K813zra (Nov 3, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> If you cant raise a burr on your 1000 following a 400 either you are not removing the burr properly in between stones or your 1000 stone sucks monkey balls.



Why does it have to be a monkey? Can't it be a goat? But I agree, shouldn't be having an issue with the 1k.


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## Chef Doom (Nov 3, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Why does it have to be a monkey? Can't it be a goat? But I agree, shouldn't be having an issue with the 1k.


Goat balls doesnt sound as cool but both pig testicles and donkey sack would have been acceptable.


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