# Which Heavy Cleaver?



## CompE (Feb 1, 2018)

The questionnaire answers:

I'm in the US.

I want a heavy cleaver, probably a CCK from Chef's Mall, I am leaning towards a 1603 bone chopper or a 1402 Kau Kong.

I am right handed.

Length appropriate for the job. I think that less than 180mm would be too short, anything over 240mm would be too long.

I prefer carbon.

Absolute max budget is $150. I don't want to spend too much on something that will take a beating, but I've been burned by going too cheap (see below).

Home use.

This knife will be for Chinese style chopping cooked chicken (chopping through flesh and bone in one hit) and chopping up crabs (blue or dungeness) through the shell. I might use the back to crack a coconut occasionally.

The closest thing that I have is a cheap Kau Kong chopper that I bought from an Asian grocery store. The thing looks like an axe but it deformed 2-3mm when I tried to chop through a chicken thigh bone. I think it might have been intended for Cutco salespeople so they can shave some filings off the scary looking knife before they use their "still sharp" Double-D edge to saw through a piece of rope.

I pinch grip mostly. I might finger point with my petty on a slice or draw.

As far as most used techniques (not sure how that matters here), I usually push or chop, sometimes slice or draw. I rarely walk; I suck at it and need to work on my skills. I suck at rocking too, but I never found it necessary. This knife is for chopping straight through bone-in chicken or shell-on shellfish.

Improvements - I am looking for something that can handle some heavy hacking without deforming (or chipping).

Aesthetics - Minimum 67 layers of Damascus steel (don't try to sell me on 45). Hammer finished and mirror polish. The handle must be made from baby elephant ivory carved in the image of the Great Cthulhu.

Comfort - Heavy with a handle.

Ease of use - I want it to repeatedly hack completely through bird bones and crustacean shells in one stroke without needing to re-forge the mangled steel.

Edge retention - Since I'm a home cook, I'll probably only hack up 1 or 2 chickens at a time or maybe 1 or 2 crabs at a time. It would be nice if the edge can last at least 5 or 6 sessions.

I have a Boardsmith end grain maple carolina slab.

I sharpen my own knives.

I know how to sharpen them, but I keep learning more.

I'm always interested in buying more sharpening products.

Other comments:

I saw a youtube video where this expert village woman was hacking through some carrots and crab legs with a really small cleaver. She needed a couple of whacks to get the job done, but I figure that I've got more upper body strength than her. Maybe I can get away with something like what she had. What do you think? :spin chair:


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## chinacats (Feb 1, 2018)

Love the aesthetics you're after

Sure wish I knew more about the specific models of cck but pretty sure that's what I'd go for if were chopping bones. I have a cheap Chinese cleaver that's stainless I use for coconuts but use the spine rather than the edge.:biggrin:

I love my cck slicers and guess their choppers should be every bit as good.


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## RonB (Feb 1, 2018)

I can't help 'cause I'm new to J-knives - but I guess when you need to chop something, you will leave it to Cleaver. :biggrin:


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## esoo (Feb 1, 2018)

Taking out my response - when I bought one for the store - the large slicer was the 1603 - it looks like they've renumbered that to the 1103....


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## chinacats (Feb 1, 2018)

esoo said:


> Taking out my response - when I bought one for the store - the large slicer was the 1603 - it looks like they've renumbered that to the 1103....



Not sure about a 1603 or that series but the 11xx series has been around a fairly long time...the 03 is the smallest of the 11 series...I love my 1102.

Edit to say I found the 1603... it's a bone chopper...perhaps the 16xx series may be what the op is looking for? Maybe the 1601 or 1602 may be more appropriate? 

http://www.chefsmall.net/CCK-Chinese-Bone-Chopper-Bone-Knife-Bone-Cleaver-S


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 2, 2018)

The KF 1402 Medium Kao Kong Chopper is a good option. It is a little overkill for crabs & lobster, but will go through a chicken bone. It is front weighted and rather compact for a bone cleaver.

Using it sparingly as a home cleaver you will not get much deformation. Carbon in the mid to high 50's work well for bone cleavers. High hrt steel will chip on chicken thigh bones. Cutting a lot of chickens and duck you will get some deformation, but carbon sharpens easy.


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## btbyrd (Feb 2, 2018)

I'm really curious about this heavier cleaver from ImportFood.com.













It's only $35


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## Xenif (Feb 2, 2018)

CKK Kau Kong is an excellent choice (I might vr bias for being chinese), maybe even a bit overkill. If you want to one stroke it it will require a bit of sharpening.


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## Cashn (Feb 2, 2018)

I have one of these, ridiculously awesome in every way, was kind of a no brainer when I bought some stones from there and the shipping price was the same. 

https://www.aranyik.com/#!/Bone-Cleaver/p/59444219/category=0


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## BloodrootLS (Feb 2, 2018)

What about a vintage American or British cleaver? Westerners know how to make things that bash food quite well[emoji16]. The ones weve repaired or tested in the past are high 50s to low 60s HRC differentially hardened and would have no problem making it through anything in one stroke.


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## BloodrootLS (Feb 2, 2018)

Briddell or Foster Brothers comes to mind


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## Marcelo Amaral (Feb 2, 2018)

The one i use to hack through chicken bones and crack coconuts is the one below. Never deformed the edge, but, of course, the edge is not as sharp as vegetable cleavers. It's stainless, though.

https://viainox.com/produto/cutelo-...MIlaGNheqH2QIVFgiRCh1e8AGGEAQYAyABEgKFKPD_BwE


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 2, 2018)

Any good medium weight all-purpose Chinese cleaver should be able to handle poultry and waterfowl bones. Chop with the heel of the blade. Coconuts I don't have as much experience with but Thai's use special coconut choppers kind of like short machetes that I see pretty often in local Asian markets.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 2, 2018)

I bought that exact Thai cleaver & a couple others different design each. Sanded off the Varnish the wood looks much better with a mix of tung oil & clear shellac.

Sold them to students they were using their Mercer 8" chef knives cutting up chickens the edges got deformed quite a bit.

Those Thai cleavers are not bad blades for the price. They are small bone cleavers.

For Lobsters I used the CCK carbon KF1922 when I bought it in Chinatown owner told me it was the same cleaver Lobster King Chinese House uses to cut thousands. It is thinner in the front & thicker in the back for smaller bones.

The Kau Kong is better for chicken thigh bones. It also has a nice grind thicker at the spine tapers all the way to the cutting edge. As mentioned it must be sharpened. Because of it's compact size it works well for home use. The Chinese know how to put a grind on a cleaver.

Many stainless western bone cleavers have thick steel up top then they just grind a bevel on bottom part of blade.


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## aaamax (Feb 2, 2018)

keithsaltydog said:


> Many stainless western bone cleavers have thick steel up top then they just grind a bevel on bottom part of blade.



Lol. Many western blades period. Thick, thick and extra thick with an edge at the bottom... lol


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## CompE (Feb 5, 2018)

Thanks for the advice.

I am mainly interested in Chinese (and I suppose Hong Kong) cleavers right now. My Chinese in-laws are on an extended visit right now, and I think they would prefer to use a CCK vs. a Foster Bros.

I am sure that I can put an edge on a CCK Kau Kong, just as long as it doesn't deform or get large chips for what it is going to go through.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 5, 2018)

Do you have a lighter cleaver that you & in-laws can use? The Chinese make good light vegetable blades like the CCK 1303 or the cheaper small Double Swords $27.60 is good.

Double Swords also makes (triple steel) medium cleaver stainless clad carbon core. 68.50

Like to help you spend your coin on Chinese carbon blades


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## dafox (Feb 5, 2018)

keithsaltydog said:


> Do you have a lighter cleaver that you & in-laws can use? The Chinese make good light vegetable blades like the CCK 1303 or the cheaper small Double Swords $27.60 is good.
> 
> Double Swords also makes (triple steel) medium cleaver stainless clad carbon core. 68.50
> 
> Like to help you spend your coin on Chinese carbon blades



Where are you looking at the double swords?
What is the taper on the spine and the thinness of the grind like?
Thanks!


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 5, 2018)

Chefs Mall. Sorry meant Double Lions. Under Small Cleavers (Sangdao) bottom of page, almost same size and weight of the CCK 1303. Have used both the CCK 1303 is slightly better. 

The Stainless clad carbon is a medium blade under Cleavers (Caidao) have not used this one only the full CCK carbon Caidao at work for splitting Lobsters.

The CCK 1303 in Chinatown here is still only 50.00 years ago used to get them much cheaper now online they are close to 70.00 .


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## dafox (Feb 5, 2018)

keithsaltydog said:


> Chefs Mall. Sorry meant Double Lions. Under Small Cleavers (Sangdao) bottom of page, almost same size and weight of the CCK 1303. Have used both the CCK 1303 is slightly better.
> 
> The Stainless clad carbon is a medium blade under Cleavers (Caidao) have not used this one only the full CCK carbon Caidao at work for splitting Lobsters.
> 
> The CCK 1303 in Chinatown here is still only 50.00 years ago used to get them much cheaper now online they are close to 70.00 .


Great, thanks. Ive got a 1303, just got a 1302 and havnt used it yet. Planning on getting a 1923 or 1922 next. Sounds like a lot of people like the 110X but they just seem too tall to me. Looks like it's hard to beat the CCK's for Chinese made cleavers.


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## btbyrd (Feb 5, 2018)

Well I caved on the Import Thai Food heavy cleaver. The price was just too nice, and I don't mind a rustic cleaver. Especially for $35. I'll post thoughts and pictures once it arrives.


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## Blen (Feb 6, 2018)

I bought the 1402 Kau Kong in HKG. Nice tool for home use, can handle quite heavy bones.


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## CompE (Feb 6, 2018)

keithsaltydog said:


> Do you have a lighter cleaver that you & in-laws can use? The Chinese make good light vegetable blades like the CCK 1303 or the cheaper small Double Swords $27.60 is good.
> 
> Double Swords also makes (triple steel) medium cleaver stainless clad carbon core. 68.50
> 
> Like to help you spend your coin on Chinese carbon blades



I have a CCK 1303. That skinny little thing is not going to go anywhere near bones or shells. I saw the Double Swords bone choppers at Chef's Mall are only slightly cheaper than the CCKs, but the Double Swords and ShibaZi Kau Kongs are half the price of CCKs. Still, I figured that I'd stick with what I know better with CCK.

For now, I'm just looking at the heavy end, opposite of the 1303, but I think that a 1922 or 1102 might be in my future. Who am I kidding; both are probably in my future.


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## chinacats (Feb 6, 2018)

The 192x series is new to me but the more i look the more I like. Smaller than the 110x series but thin at the tip at thicker at the heel "for small bones" sounds nice.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 6, 2018)

Can't resist again:

http://www.tanebocho.com/products/Yakushika-Deer-Bone-Cleaver.html


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## dafox (Feb 6, 2018)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Can't resist again:
> 
> http://www.tanebocho.com/products/Yakushika-Deer-Bone-Cleaver.html



The link didn't work for me.


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## btbyrd (Feb 6, 2018)

That's odd. It worked for me earlier, but isn't working now.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 7, 2018)

Someone must have bought the last one.


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## Pudu (Feb 8, 2018)

I was in the same boat about a month ago. I had been using my poor old $8 Chinese stainless chopper for years. One of my favourite dishes is laziji and I make it often enough that I finally decided it was time to stop abusing the poor chopper. 

I looked at both CCK's KF160~ Bone Chopper and KF140~ Kau Kong. Then I found a decent deal on ebay (I know) for the KF1503 BBQ Chopper - worked out to about the same price as the Kau Kong shipped. So far it's been great. Exactly what I needed for cutting through chicken, bones and all.


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## dafox (Feb 8, 2018)

Pudu said:


> I was in the same boat about a month ago. I had been using my poor old $8 Chinese stainless chopper for years. One of my favourite dishes is laziji and I make it often enough that I finally decided it was time to stop abusing the poor chopper.
> 
> I looked at both CCK's KF160~ Bone Chopper and KF140~ Kau Kong. Then I found a decent deal on ebay (I know) for the KF1503 BBQ Chopper - worked out to about the same price as the Kau Kong shipped. So far it's been great. Exactly what I needed for cutting through chicken, bones and all.



What do you use for cutting the vegetables?


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## Pudu (Feb 8, 2018)

Vegetables? 

What are those? :scratchhead:

I have a santoku and a nakiri I can use for veg work. Although, honestly for garlic, ginger, and scallions (the only veg in laziji if you don't count the dried chilies) I much prefer to use a chukabocho. This is why I wanted to get a protein and bone specific cleaver, to prevent constantly ruining the chopper edge on something for which it was never intended to be used and then having to re-sharpen it. 

However my plan kind of backfired, because now I'm in the market for a needless upgrade to my chopper. :rolleyes2: Looking very pointedly at a Sugimoto this week.


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 8, 2018)

The factory edge on my Sugimoto No. 7 did poorly on chicken bones until I raised the sharpening angle a little bit. Works fine now but it is one heavy knife for fine cutting.


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## Pudu (Feb 8, 2018)

I have been eyeing the #6, purely for chopping and slicing veg and soft protein. 

That #7 looks like a beast.


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## mlau (Feb 9, 2018)

Pudu said:


> I have been eyeing the #6, purely for chopping and slicing veg and soft protein.
> 
> That #7 looks like a beast.




Dude, I had trouble with the #6...which is why I sold my custom Heiji chuka and commissioned one at half it's weight.

To the OP, if you're still looking for a heavy cleaver, I'd be happy to check out Chinatown (oakland) to find a very heavy meat cleaver.
It'll likely run about $20 or less, and I'll ship it to you at my cost.

however, I feel that this is something that is very personal.
I'd recommend you go to your local chinese community to hunt for a knife.
These are cheap---soft steel, made in bulk, poorly finished--can smash through bone.

You will definitely want a better cutting board however. Do you have any whole stumps here? I'd be afraid that your boardsmith won't be up to the task.


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## Pudu (Feb 10, 2018)

I think it'll be okay for me. The #6 is only 10g heavier than the chopper I've been using for 18 years. How did you get the weight down so much?

The one thing I would add is that while a cheap chopper will definitely get through chicken bones, a good edge is important to minimize splintering. I know some insist that because chicken bones are round you cannot avoid splintering, but in my experience a good edge makes a significant difference in this respect. 

Awesome and generous offer mlau!


Definitely worth checking out your local Chinese or Vietnamese market for a cheap, thick cutting board you can dedicate to cleaving duty.


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## NO ChoP! (Feb 11, 2018)

Look for used Ho Ching Kee Lee. Very similar to CCK, but the price is much more reasonable, similar to CCK before the name took off. This is mine. Also, I would never use this beast on a nice end grain board.


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## NO ChoP! (Feb 11, 2018)

Also, Maxim was selling these for a bit. Heavy Yoshikane cleavers.


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## mlau (Feb 11, 2018)

I bought mine from a friend who goes to China and Hong Kong to replenish ingredients. He always buys extra knives that he resells to friends and students. He once travelled to a remote village in Szechuan to replenish his chili sauce.

Ironically, he is Caucasian, and doesn't speak a lick of Chinese.

I picked what felt good in the hand...which happens to be very light!


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## mlau (Feb 11, 2018)

Also, the guys in Chinatown treat their knives as a disposable tool and sharpen constantly on cheap 80/240 grit stones.

They'll chop their order and resharpen during down time.


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## mlau (Feb 11, 2018)

But yeah, offer still stands.
Just let me know what your cutting and how big a knife.

It may take a while though.
I may be going up to SF Chinatown sometime to help a friend get a cutting board.


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## mlau (Feb 11, 2018)

Oh, just checked prices at the wok shop.

A decent cleaver will be $10-30. Just depends on what you plan to cut.

From my training, the heavy cleaver is a fairly cheap, disposable tool. The fine vegetable cleaver us where to spend the money


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