# Does Grit really matter



## ABranson (Apr 8, 2017)

So my question(s) is does grit matter. We can use really coarse grit to put a a quick easy (usually unrefined) edge onto a blade. But this step is not always necessary. We can start our sharpening process on 1k, 2k, 3k? 4k? Are time and ease bigger factors than grit (except in regards to refinement). I guess my main question is, lets assume I only have a 2k stone. Can I put just as good of an edge on it as I would working from 400-1k-2k. 

I ask not only in regards to synthetics, but natural stones are not 1 grit and many people use just one natural stone. What do you think?


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## foody518 (Apr 8, 2017)

You'll have a terrible time trying to take out visible chips with a fine stone. Same with trying to do any significant bevel resetting or thinning. Coarser stones remove metal more quickly and this is necessary for some processes. 
Theoretically speaking you could do the above tasks with a finer stone only, but for example trying to set a somewhat more acute edge bevel, knocking off bevel shoulders shoulders or trying to put in a significant thinning bevel - it's much easier to accidentally slip into the angles already there on the knife because you're not cutting in your new intended bevels in a timely manner. Whereas the coarse stone you would much more quickly feel that the new bevels are forming. If you've tried to do this before you'll know what I mean. 
I own a 2k stone and I don't do any significant metal removal on it. My coarse stones also get used (sometimes) on my own knives as well as other people's knives. Hope that answers your question. 
I haven't yet owned a natural stone that runs the gamut of coarse to fine without extra help (roughing up the surface, several nagura or other donor slurries, a thick slurry to diluted water progression, etc.)


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## Ruso (Apr 8, 2017)

It's like walking vs driving.
Yes, you can walk from Toronto to Montreal, but if you want to do it a reasonable amount of time - driving is much better option.


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## Chuckles (Apr 8, 2017)

You could maintain a knife for years with just a 2k stone. If you thin a little every time you sharpen and don't need any major repair work it wouldn't be that hard.


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## panda (Apr 8, 2017)

aint nobody got time for dat!!


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## Benuser (Apr 8, 2017)

In addition only: with some, more charged steels I've noticed a much better retention after just a very few strokes on a medium-coarse prior to further refinement.


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## zetieum (Apr 8, 2017)

Benuser said:


> In addition only: with some, more charged steels I've noticed a much better retention after just a very few strokes on a medium-coarse prior to further refinement.



Can you further comment on that? Do you mean that for stainless steel "less pure" the medium stones will remove bigger aggregates ?


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## panda (Apr 8, 2017)

The whole point of using coarse grits is to remove weakened steel. A constantly touched up edge goes limp after just a few minutes of use.


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## Benuser (Apr 8, 2017)

panda said:


> The whole point of using coarse grits is to remove weakened steel. A constantly touched up edge goes limp after just a few minutes of use.



Sure. From time to time you need fresh steel. But I was referring to carbides in stainless and advanced carbons you better deal with using a coarser stone.


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## ABranson (Apr 8, 2017)

panda said:


> The whole point of using coarse grits is to remove weakened steel. A constantly touched up edge goes limp after just a few minutes of use.



But would a "new" edge from just using a 2k stone be a touched up edge or would it be a new edge. Like could you form the necessary burrs on 2k/do everything you need on it or would you have to at some point go down to a coarser stone. And this I understand will take longer. I just wanna know if you can put just as good and just as strong of an edge with just a 2k or maybe 3k or a natural stone, rather than working through a progression


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## foody518 (Apr 8, 2017)

Depends on your specific 2k stone, your angle holding, if you are talking about already a reasonably thin behind the edge, well maintained blade or not. The Gesshin 2k (which cuts as fast or faster than my 1k soaker stones) I'd say yes, the Chosera 2k, Mizuyama 3k (discontinued) or one of my natural Aoto I'd say no, definitely keep a coarser stone around


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## ABranson (Apr 8, 2017)

What about 1k,? Could that do everything you need for establishing a new edge. Obviously it wouldnt be the Finest finish. But could a 1k put a new tough edge on and give a decent finish all in one? I guess My goal is to determine is if there is a reality where one stone can do it all. Certainly there will be benefits and drawbacks on any one stone.

I guess my other question to tag along is, how often should a coarser stone be used. Everytime I sharpen? Every other, once a year?


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## K813zra (Apr 9, 2017)

Define sharpening. For me sharpening is a full progression from coarse to fine but that is not something I do all of the time, at least not on "user knives". Practice knives are another story but I am getting off track here. Typically what I do is to touch up the edge on a fine stone until it feels like I am no longer getting the performance that I want from the edge. At that point I will drop back a stone and if that does not do it then a full progression. But the thing is this, how often one drops back and does a full sharpening is going to depend on a lot of factors. I have a handful of knives in rotation and cook for two people 6 days a week. As such my sharpening needs are going to be different than someone banging out hundreds of pounds of produce on a regular basis. That does not factor in the innate edge retention of one blade vs another etc.

You could get by with a 1k for a good while as long as you are starting off with a knife in good shape that is relatively thin behind the edge. Maybe even a bit higher. A good starting point but I would not like to be without a stone on either end of the spectrum.


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## mikaelsan (Apr 9, 2017)

I found that starting below 1000 gives a much better result, but I think this has something to do with the fact that I don't hit the old angle exactly when I sharpen again, but theoretically a 2000 should be able to do everything for you, e especially if your very consistent


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## RDalman (Apr 9, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Define sharpening....




This, great answer &#128077;&#128077;


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## Benuser (Apr 9, 2017)

mikaelsan said:


> I found that starting below 1000 gives a much better result, but I think this has something to do with the fact that I don't hit the old angle exactly when I sharpen again, but theoretically a 2000 should be able to do everything for you, e especially if your very consistent



I thought about a Chosera 800 as a one and only, starting aggressively and ending as a JIS 1200. But for full deburring you need to go a bit higher. Never been able to remove the entire burr on the 800, even not with the simplest carbons. I do have maintained for quiete some time a few carbons and easy molys with a Chosera 2k only. But you have to know the stone very well, and be prepared to vary in pressure, water, mud.


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## limpet (Apr 9, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Define sharpening. For me sharpening is a full progression from coarse to fine but that is not something I do all of the time, at least not on "user knives". Practice knives are another story but I am getting off track here. Typically what I do is to touch up the edge on a fine stone until it feels like I am no longer getting the performance that I want from the edge. At that point I will drop back a stone and if that does not do it then a full progression. But the thing is this, how often one drops back and does a full sharpening is going to depend on a lot of factors. I have a handful of knives in rotation and cook for two people 6 days a week. As such my sharpening needs are going to be different than someone banging out hundreds of pounds of produce on a regular basis. That does not factor in the innate edge retention of one blade vs another etc.
> 
> You could get by with a 1k for a good while as long as you are starting off with a knife in good shape that is relatively thin behind the edge. Maybe even a bit higher. A good starting point but I would not like to be without a stone on either end of the spectrum.



Great answer. This is how I do it.

Also, when sharpening a knife for the first time, replacing the out-of-the-box edge, and the edge feels "ok", I usually start on 1000 grit and see how the sharpening feels and how my muscle memory ("instinct") angle hits the edge. If it feels wrong, like I'm not getting a good feedback, or if seems like the bevel is getting big, imo I have two choices: adjust angle or go down in grit. I recently sharpened one of my Goko knives that are not very thin behind the edge. I noticed the bevel getting big (not unusual for a Goko) and the feedback felt a bit off. So I went down from 1000 grit to 300 and set the bevel. When I went back up to 1000, it was a real pleasure to sharpen it, with great, consistent feedback. And with "feedback", I mean how you feel the friction between the blade and the stone.


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## mikaelsan (Apr 9, 2017)

i think that's a pretty good point, it's harder to deburr the lower the grit, i think that might be why I'm so dependent on my higher grit stones, as well as part of why i have never really found a proper place for my binsui (1k ish natural) in my lineup, the edges always feel off


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 11, 2017)

Yes you can get buy with one medium stone. If you thin a little behind the edge each time you sharpen it will put on a good sharp toothy functional edge.


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