# Gengetsu



## jmgray (Dec 23, 2016)

Jon posted that he has a shipment coming in on fb. What gorgeous looking knife


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## bkultra (Dec 23, 2016)

These should go fast, a lot of people have been waiting for these.


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## Brucewml (Dec 23, 2016)

What is the good about gengtesu. Sorry about my foolish. Lol


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## bkultra (Dec 23, 2016)

You can do a search and find more information, but they are supposed to be very good and carbon core clad in stainless is not very common.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/28957-What-cuts-like-gengetsu?highlight=Gengetsu


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## James (Dec 23, 2016)

Brucewml said:


> What is the good about gengtesu. Sorry about my foolish. Lol



Just pure performance. Middle weight knife that's laser thin behind the edge and has good food release. Very good distal taper too. I owned a SS one for a while, but sold it. The water in my area doesn't agree with the steel and caused pitting no matter what I did to prevent it.


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## Brucewml (Dec 24, 2016)

Thanks dude. Cause this moment I am really into Yoshikane knife. I own one SKD western handle. And still want to try sLd and Damascus. So I am not sure which one I should try first. If the gengetsu is more outstanding than yoshikane. I should get one first . What do you guys recommend?


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## James (Dec 24, 2016)

Brucewml said:


> Thanks dude. Cause this moment I am really into Yoshikane knife. I own one SKD western handle. And still want to try sLd and Damascus. So I am not sure which one I should try first. If the gengetsu is more outstanding than yoshikane. I should get one first . What do you guys recommend?



Gengetsu is a little thinner and a little stickier. The yoshikane damascus feels more substantial and has better food release. In terms of edge retention, I feel like it's a tossup. FWIW, I feel like the yoshikane sld is a bit more stainless than the gengetsu semistainless. As for recommending one over the other, it depends on personal preference. I would place them in the same performance tier.


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## DaveInMesa (Dec 24, 2016)

James said:


> The water in my area doesn't agree with the steel and caused pitting no matter what I did to prevent it.



That's really surprising, since Boston has some of the best water in the country. Or, are you technically across the river in Cambridge, where the water is GodAwful? Or one of the other localities that doesn't use the municipal supply? (Can ya tell I grew up there?)


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## James (Dec 24, 2016)

Yep. Cambridge. Figures huh?


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## MontezumaBoy (Jan 17, 2017)

jmgray - Looks like your (& my) wish has just been posted to his site! I'm now the proud owner of a 240 white #2 ... get em while they last boys and girls!!! At least Jon was able to get more than just a few so maybe they will last a couple of days ... LOL ... :bliss:

TjA



jmgray said:


> Jon posted that he has a shipment coming in on fb. What gorgeous looking knife


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## Omega (Jan 17, 2017)

Yeah, I just got the email; when I was adding it to cart, it said that there were 36 in stock.. we'll see how long they last.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 17, 2017)

SNAP. 210 SS


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## daveb (Jan 17, 2017)

I must not look.

I looked.

I don't need another 210.

I want another 210.

Eff me.


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## malexthekid (Jan 17, 2017)

daveb said:


> I must not look.
> 
> I looked.
> 
> ...



This is why I am avoiding... I already have too many customs on order for the year...


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## alterwisser (Jan 17, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> This is why I am avoiding... I already have too many customs on order for the year...



You want one. You know it. 

I want one. I know it.

Let's do it [emoji12]


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## JGui (Jan 17, 2017)

Got one! Looks like they have a handful


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## SuperSharp (Jan 17, 2017)

I got one. Never tried one before, so I'm excited.


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## DLF54927 (Jan 17, 2017)

Any leads on sayas that fit?


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## labor of love (Jan 17, 2017)

Tonight I will have the best sleep in years


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## trvn (Jan 17, 2017)

Any comments on the semi stainless vs white for these?


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## KeithA (Jan 17, 2017)

I honestly envy you, labor of love. You get all warm and fuzzy. I become riddled with guilt...well, at least for a couple of hours.

By the way, I got the 240 SS.


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## Nemo (Jan 17, 2017)

How is the food release? Nice thin tip?


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## James (Jan 17, 2017)

Nemo said:


> How is the food release? Nice thin tip?



Tip is ephemeral


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## daveb (Jan 17, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Tonight I will have the best sleep in years



Does that mean our $750 deal is off?


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## KeithA (Jan 17, 2017)

trvn said:


> Any comments on the semi stainless vs white for these?



I think that is a personal thing, just like the size. I love white #2, but chose the SS because of the wife approval thing. I'm sure both are great. If this helps, I did notice the SS is a bit higher at the heel and heavier than the SC.


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## daveb (Jan 17, 2017)

James said:


> Tip is ephemeral



Huh?

e·phem·er·al
&#601;&#712;fem(&#601r&#601;l/
_adjective_



*1*. lasting for a very short time.
"fashions are ephemeral"


synonyms:transitory, transient, fleeting, passing, short-lived, momentary, brief, short; More














I thought I was the only one to use $3 words with a 50 cent vocabulary.:groucho:


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## labor of love (Jan 17, 2017)

trvn said:


> Any comments on the semi stainless vs white for these?



Tk49, an old school forum member wrote an excellent review several years ago. It's worth a quick read.


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## Nemo (Jan 17, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Tk49, an old school forum member wrote an excellent review several years ago. It's worth a quick read.



Can't find it (google searched). Do you have a link?


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## bkultra (Jan 17, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Can't find it (google searched). Do you have a link?



Tk59

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/6676-Gengetsu-240-mm-semistainless-gyuto


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## KeithA (Jan 17, 2017)

Trvn. A couple of things that Jon said. The SS is a bit tougher to sharpen and doesn't get quite as sharp, but does retain its edge better and is somewhat tougher. As far as the height at heel and weight thing, he said both feel similar in hand and that those figures might be a result of the fact that each knife will have variances in their dimensions.


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## trvn (Jan 17, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Tk49, an old school forum member wrote an excellent review several years ago. It's worth a quick read.



thanks...gonna give the semi stainless a hard look!


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## Nemo (Jan 17, 2017)

Thanks


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 17, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Tonight I will have the best sleep in years



Hi Craig, thank you for talking me into Gengetsu. 
Do you know how to get to Tk49's Gengetsu review? Search on KKF produces "invalid user" to me.


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## chinacats (Jan 17, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> Hi Craig, thank you for talking me into Gengetsu.
> Do you know how to get to Tk49's Gengetsu review? Search on KKF produces "invalid user" to me.



TK59


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## bkultra (Jan 17, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> Hi Craig, thank you for talking me into Gengetsu.
> Do you know how to get to Tk49's Gengetsu review? Search on KKF produces "invalid user" to me.



I posted this link on the last page but here it is again. 

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/6676-Gengetsu-240-mm-semistainless-gyuto


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## labor of love (Jan 17, 2017)

TKwhateva9


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## trvn (Jan 17, 2017)

KeithA said:


> Trvn. A couple of things that Jon said. The SS is a bit tougher to sharpen and doesn't get quite as sharp, but does retain its edge better and is somewhat tougher. As far as the height at heel and weight thing, he said both feel similar in hand and that those figures might be a result of the fact that each knife will have variances in their dimensions.



Thanks!


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## labor of love (Jan 17, 2017)

Keep your eyes peeled on BST, I suspect people will be making room in their collections to pick up a gengetsu while they can.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jan 17, 2017)

bkultra said:


> I posted this link on the last page but here it is again.
> 
> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/6676-Gengetsu-240-mm-semistainless-gyuto



Thanks, bkultra. I don't know how i missed it in the first place!


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## Kristoff (Jan 18, 2017)

I been waiting for so long to get my hands on the gengetsu gyuto. Eff the very bad exchange rate. Cost me $500 AUD inclusive of shipping. Gonna be eating instant noodles for a long time


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## Nemo (Jan 18, 2017)

Yeah, the shipping from US is a killer


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## valgard (Jan 18, 2017)

After browsing around I also find that shipping from US is brutal, even for us just across the border. It doesn't seem to be that bad the other way around though.


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## Nemo (Jan 18, 2017)

DaveInMesa said:


> That's really surprising, since Boston has some of the best water in the country. Or, are you technically across the river in Cambridge, where the water is GodAwful? Or one of the other localities that doesn't use the municipal supply? (Can ya tell I grew up there?)



Cambridge has a different water supply to Boston? I've never been but I thought they were just across the river... like, just a walk across the bridge?


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## Kristoff (Jan 18, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Yeah, the shipping from US is a killer



Yea I remember buying a knife bag and a gesshin 1k/6k stone from Jon and the shipping was more than 1/3 of what I actually paid for all the items. Only good thing is that I can claim tax deductions as work tools but it's still hurt me more than it helps.


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## Barmoley (Jan 18, 2017)

Hey guys,

Could someone that has used both gengetsu and itinomonn stainless compare the two. From the measurements and steels, they seem somewhat similar, but I know there is more to it.

Thanks.


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## Nemo (Jan 18, 2017)

James said:


> Just pure performance. Middle weight knife that's laser thin behind the edge and has good food release. Very good distal taper too.



This sounds a lot like the things I love about my Shiro Kamo (geometry wise). Anyone able to compare the two?


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## skewed (Jan 18, 2017)

Gosh darn it, I didn't need a new knife... until this dropped. Eff it SSS 240 ordered!


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## ynot1985 (Jan 18, 2017)

Kristoff said:


> Yea I remember buying a knife bag and a gesshin 1k/6k stone from Jon and the shipping was more than 1/3 of what I actually paid for all the items. Only good thing is that I can claim tax deductions as work tools but it's still hurt me more than it helps.



I wish I have that luxury.. not a chef so 50 usd shipped to here is borderline deal breaker for me


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## Nemo (Jan 18, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> I wish I have that luxury.. not a chef so 50 usd shipped to here is borderline deal breaker for me



FWIW, it's 80 USD to Albury!


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## malexthekid (Jan 18, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> I wish I have that luxury.. not a chef so 50 usd shipped to here is borderline deal breaker for me



You will just need to think of it as being part of the cost of the knife, rather than an extra.... Oh the joys of living in the land down under.


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## guari (Jan 18, 2017)

Shame as I'd have loved to buy quite a few things using Jon's store if it weren't for the high priced shipping to the UK.. So I get most of my things from Koki..

Jon, if you are reading this, I'd kindly suggest you get yourself some supersaver int. shipping, even if it's slow. You are loosing quite a few customers..


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## malexthekid (Jan 18, 2017)

guari said:


> Shame as I'd have loved to buy quite a few things using Jon's store if it weren't for the high priced shipping to the UK.. So I get most of my things from Koki..
> 
> Jon, if you are reading this, I'd kindly suggest you get yourself some supersaver int. shipping, even if it's slow. You are loosing quite a few customers..



I think Jon (or should I say his customers) have been stung a few times with cheaper international shipping options, hence why he only offers the better ones. So it is more something we have to weigh up... I would rather pay more than take the gamble it doesn't show...

Not to mention, most of the knives Jon offers, you can't get anywhere else, so if you want it, you go to him and pay more... If you are just amassing "any" knife, then I guess you can avoid him. I know I will be paying the extra and getting some more from him in the future, just purely my knife purchases for this year are already tied up in custom orders :-(


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## guari (Jan 18, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> I think Jon (or should I say his customers) have been stung a few times with cheaper international shipping options, hence why he only offers the better ones. So it is more something we have to weigh up... I would rather pay more than take the gamble it doesn't show...



That's fair, hadn't thought of that.

Maybe it's that I've been spoiled by EMS being so efficient and cheap, whilst coming from so far away..


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## JaVa (Jan 18, 2017)

I'd love to get one (who wouldn't), but the shipping cost and possibility of added 24% vat and customs fees just kills it completely for me too. That's just way too much even for a knife like Gengetsu.


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## tgfencer (Jan 18, 2017)

To be fair, for whatever reason shipping internationally out from the US is fairly expensive for everyone from businesses to private individuals. When I lived in the UK, shipping to the US was at least half the price then if I'd shipped the same thing from the US to the UK. Why an option like EMS doesn't exist here is beyond me...


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## Kristoff (Jan 18, 2017)

If only shipping isn't so expensive I would have bought more things from Jon. It's the shipping that hurts. There are so many great stuff I would love to get and Jon is just amazing to deal with. I never had any issues with shipping from EMS and they are not hat slow too.

Shipping from Australia is bloody expensive too. I paid $80 odd dollars for international shipping with tracking, don't they no it was express too but can't really recall. A lot of my knives need a spa treatment


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## daveb (Jan 18, 2017)

Any chance you Aussies could pool an order and split shipping? Then once it gets to Oz, one of you distribute?

Used to do this with Maxim from the states before he offered free shipping.


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## Evilsports (Jan 18, 2017)

As a Canadian, the shipping seems quite reasonable to me. Both the DHL and USPS options seem to be right on par for what I've come to expect (~$30 to Saskatchewan Canada). The Fedex pricing is always insanely high. I just paid $45 USD to Fedex and was only ordering ~$40 worth of parts for my espresso machine. That said, Fedex was the only option available and I did get the parts the very next day. Now if our dollar could only work itself into a competitive position....


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## James (Jan 18, 2017)

daveb said:


> Huh?
> 
> e·phem·er·al
> &#601;&#712;fem(&#601r&#601;l/
> ...



Fleeting in the way that it almost doesn't exist. Just saying it's super thin. Come on, dave. Get with the program!


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## JBroida (Jan 18, 2017)

for what it's worth, over the years we've tried all kinds of shipping methods. We ended up sticking with DHL for quite a few reasons. When we had tried USPS, we had quite a few issues with packages not showing up, being delivered to the wrong address or wrong city, damaged packages, packages being stuck in customs with no customer notification, etc. There are also legal compliance issues that are much easier with DHL (i.e. customs and duties reporting). Even when our customers say they are ok with not having insurance or that they are ok taking a risk on a different shipping method, when things do go wrong, it leaves a bitter taste for everyone, and I am likely to pay to fix the problem (i.e. send a new knife or pay for shipping for a repair) because that is the way we do things.

We negotiated great rates with DHL, and the cost is usually just barely above what USPS charges for priority and less than what they charge for express. The packages arrive faster, customs clearance is better, packages are not damaged as often, they acutally pay out on their insurance when issues occur (the USPS does not for the most part), and their tracking system works significantly better. The way we do things is the best way we can think of to maintain a high level of integrity and legal compliance, while offering fast, secure, and responsible service.

I hope this makes sense.

I understand your concerns and frustrations with shipping, but I am the kind of guy that would prefer to offer a higher level of service than reach a wider audience but have the quality of our service suffer.


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## DaveInMesa (Jan 18, 2017)

James said:


> Yep. Cambridge. Figures huh?



Sadly, yes, it does, although I'm not sure what specific impurity is to blame. I know the salt content is (or was, but probably still is) very high. I don't know if that would cause the pitting, or not.


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## tgfencer (Jan 18, 2017)

JBroida said:


> The way we do things is the best way we can think of to maintain a high level of integrity and legal compliance, while offering fast, secure, and responsible service.....
> 
> .....I understand your concerns and frustrations with shipping, but I am the kind of guy that would prefer to offer a higher level of service than reach a wider audience but have the quality of our service suffer.




Jon's integrity is one of the many reasons I choose to do business with him. I appreciate businesses who understand that profit is not always the most important thing.


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## DaveInMesa (Jan 18, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Cambridge has a different water supply to Boston? I've never been but I thought they were just across the river... like, just a walk across the bridge?



Yes, that's correct. Boston and Cambridge are separated by the Charles River, about which the song "Love That Dirty Water" was written back in the 60's. It's quite clean, now, but neither city uses the Charles as a water supply. At the Boston/Cambridge end, the Charles is tidal and brackish, so it's unsuitable for drinking. Cambridge has its own reservoir within its city limits, while Boston pipes water in from a vast (by Eastern standards) man-made reservoir 65 miles away. Until quite recently, the water passed through wooden pipes that had been in place since Revolutionary times for part of the journey. There are about 50 cities and towns that use the same source, Quabbin Reservoir, but Cambridge isn't one of them.


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## malexthekid (Jan 18, 2017)

JBroida said:


> for what it's worth, over the years we've tried all kinds of shipping methods. We ended up sticking with DHL for quite a few reasons. When we had tried USPS, we had quite a few issues with packages not showing up, being delivered to the wrong address or wrong city, damaged packages, packages being stuck in customs with no customer notification, etc. There are also legal compliance issues that are much easier with DHL (i.e. customs and duties reporting). Even when our customers say they are ok with not having insurance or that they are ok taking a risk on a different shipping method, when things do go wrong, it leaves a bitter taste for everyone, and I am likely to pay to fix the problem (i.e. send a new knife or pay for shipping for a repair) because that is the way we do things.
> 
> We negotiated great rates with DHL, and the cost is usually just barely above what USPS charges for priority and less than what they charge for express. The packages arrive faster, customs clearance is better, packages are not damaged as often, they acutally pay out on their insurance when issues occur (the USPS does not for the most part), and their tracking system works significantly better. The way we do things is the best way we can think of to maintain a high level of integrity and legal compliance, while offering fast, secure, and responsible service.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. And totally agree with your method...

And the fact that it means no integration with AusPost on this end has me sold.... now i just need to sell my wife on a higher knife budget.


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## Nemo (Jan 18, 2017)

DaveInMesa said:


> Yes, that's correct. Boston and Cambridge are separated by the Charles River, about which the song "Love That Dirty Water" was written back in the 60's. It's quite clean, now, but neither city uses the Charles as a water supply. At the Boston/Cambridge end, the Charles is tidal and brackish, so it's unsuitable for drinking. Cambridge has its own reservoir within its city limits, while Boston pipes water in from a vast (by Eastern standards) man-made reservoir 65 miles away. Until quite recently, the water passed through wooden pipes that had been in place since Revolutionary times for part of the journey. There are about 50 cities and towns that use the same source, Quabbin Reservoir, but Cambridge isn't one of them.



That's quite interesting and certainly explains the difference. Thanks for the explanation.


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## fatboylim (Jan 19, 2017)

Hey Jon, Is the Gengetsu stainless clad W2 a heavy workhorse knife? And what does a heavier one weight? I was looking for a carbon 240 Gyuto with Stainless Cladding but prefer heavier knives. My favourite knife is a Toyama Gyuto 240. Much appreciate anyone's opinions too.


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## BlueSteel (Jan 19, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Hey Jon, Is the Gengetsu stainless clad W2 a heavy workhorse knife? And what does a heavier one weight? I was looking for a carbon 240 Gyuto with Stainless Cladding but prefer heavier knives. My favourite knife is a Toyama Gyuto 240. Much appreciate anyone's opinions too.



Weight is listed on the website. Stainless clad W2 240 is listed at 161g, and Jon has confirmed on this site that number is accurate (i'm sure with minor variances between individual knives). The semi-stainless 240 is heavier at 171g, and a bit taller by a couple mm.

Cheers,
Blair


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## Kristoff (Jan 19, 2017)

Thank you for choosing Japanese Knife Imports! You recently placed an order with us and we wanted to follow up with you about a couple of things before getting your order shipped out.

The Gengetsu wa-gyuto that you ordered is carbon steel. Carbon steel is reactive to both moisture and acidic foods. With normal use, a patina will form, but if left unchecked can lead to rust. As for acidic foods, the reactivity happens much more quickly. Food also reacts in the form of taste, color, and smell changes. This can be mitigated by wiping the blade dry consistently throughout use.

In addition, the Gengetsu is on the thinner side of what we offer here at the store. There will be a few things you need to remember when using this knife. It is important to avoid contact with hard materials (e.g. bones, frozen foods), using excessive force when cutting, and lateral force against the edge (e.g. sweeping onions off of a cutting board). Keeping these things in mind when using the knife will help you avoid potential chipping issues. We want to make sure that this would be okay with you before shipping it out.

Seeing as this is the first time you're ordering a carbon knife from us, we are going to hold off on shipping this order. We want to get a better understanding of how you work with the knives you currently own. Then we can figure out whether or not this makes sense to ship out. We look forward to hearing back from you soon. And my apologies for any inconvenience this may cause. Thanks so much.


I got this email after I placed an order with Jon. Not sure if this helps with answering your question whether is being suitable for a workhorse. But I reckon if I don't abuse it like what the email said. I am sure it can be a workhouse


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## fatboylim (Jan 19, 2017)

Much appreciated to you both!


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## paulraphael (Jan 19, 2017)

Surprised there's no 270mm gyuto. That's something I'd like to try.


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## tgfencer (Jan 19, 2017)

paulraphael said:


> Surprised there's no 270mm gyuto. That's something I'd like to try.



I asked Jon before they dropped and he said none in this batch or for the foreseeable future, at least for now.


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## labor of love (Jan 19, 2017)

Gengetsu 270mm is awesome.


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## panda (Jan 19, 2017)

flavor of the week, cause it will be gone after that.


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## Lazarus (Jan 19, 2017)

Are the Gengetsu's really that good? How would you compare it to a Ginrei which is the only other thing I've picked up from JKI?


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## Barmoley (Jan 19, 2017)

Or to itinommon stainless?


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## daveb (Jan 19, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Gengetsu 270mm is awesome.



True dat. The 270 Suji not bad either.


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## DaveInMesa (Jan 19, 2017)

Nemo said:


> That's quite interesting and certainly explains the difference. Thanks for the explanation.



You're welcome. I seem to still be in the minority on this, but I think that every adult should know where their water is coming from. It is, after all, the most valuable substance on Earth. But, then there are people like my niece who A) didn't understand that she'd been living in the middle of a large desert for the last 30 years, and B) only knew that water came from the faucet. She had no idea it was being piped 300 miles from the Colorado River, or why (because... desert!). Or that there is a constant battle, which is only going to intensify, among the various state governments of the Southwestern United States over rights to that water. I imagine that Aussie's are much more aware of such issues, given the situation Down Under. (Don't shatter my illusions if I'm wrong  )


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## Ruso (Jan 19, 2017)

Chu Chu Chu Everybody aboard of Gengetsu train! Chu Chu Chu!


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## labor of love (Jan 19, 2017)

Lazarus said:


> Are the Gengetsu's really that good? How would you compare it to a Ginrei which is the only other thing I've picked up from JKI?



Nothing, absolutely nothing I've used cuts like gengetsu. Infact I started a thread about this topic and the only similar knife anyone could suggest was a Yoshikane Kasumi maxim carried a few years ago.


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## Timthebeaver (Jan 19, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Nothing, absolutely nothing I've used cuts like gengetsu. Infact I started a thread about this topic and the only similar knife anyone could suggest was a Yoshikane Kasumi maxim carried a few years ago.



Truth.


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## malexthekid (Jan 19, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Nothing, absolutely nothing I've used cuts like gengetsu. Infact I started a thread about this topic and the only similar knife anyone could suggest was a Yoshikane Kasumi maxim carried a few years ago.



Why must you say things like that. I had convinced myself I didn't need to try one and then you say that.


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## Ruso (Jan 19, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Why must you say things like that. I had convinced myself I didn't need to try one and then you say that.



Read between the lines, he never that is cuts well...:tease:


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## labor of love (Jan 19, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Why must you say things like that. I had convinced myself I didn't need to try one and then you say that.


The combination of medium weight, beefy but not too beefy blade(the knife is thick and sturdy but doesn't wedge), the way the grind tapers, then it gets really thin behind the edge(as you can see by the amount if core steel exposed. I'm not sure why there aren't more knives like this. So many Kasumi blades are way thin for much of the blade or way thick. It's what I referred to as my fave workhorse in another thread(if we can agree for a moment that a workhorse is a knife one can use for all Gyuto tasks). It's the only knife I can think of that is pretty damn good at everything. Just my opinion. I talk too much, I'll try and shut up now.


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## Marek07 (Jan 19, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Nothing, absolutely nothing I've used cuts like gengetsu. Infact I started a thread about this topic and the only similar knife anyone could suggest was a Yoshikane Kasumi maxim carried a few years ago.


Clarification please... Are you referring to the stainless clad white #2 or the semi-stainless? Or doesn't it matter?


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## labor of love (Jan 19, 2017)

Marek07 said:


> Clarification please... Are you referring to the stainless clad white #2 or the semi-stainless? Or doesn't it matter?



Same performance. But I'm a biased fanboy. I need to stay off all gengetsu threads.


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## daveb (Jan 19, 2017)

No you don't. It's great affirmation therapy. 

FWIW my 270 tapes at 260 and is clad carbon. My 240 tapes at 250 and is clad stainless. I don't detect any nuanced differences between the two using, and not enough to care about when sharpening. Slight preference for 240.

Would like to hear Jon's thoughts, either here or in the thread on his forum about why the Gengetsu feels "magic" and what other knives might compare. I want a short suji, 225 - 240, that cuts like my 270.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 19, 2017)

Nothing wrong with falling in love Craig. I'm looking forward to starting my romance shortly too.


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## Lazarus (Jan 19, 2017)

Ordered a 210 and 240 today, figured why not.


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## labor of love (Jan 19, 2017)

Just to reiterate, everything I've said is just my OPINION. Gengetsu is just a knife that is perfect for me. There's plenty of people around the forum who openly declare their fave knife they've used so far-that's all I'm really doing. Your tastes may not be similar to mine. Forgive me for pointing out something that might be obvious to some but not so much with others.


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## KeithA (Jan 20, 2017)

I'd be surprised if any of us didn't understand that knives are as much the product of individual taste, history, and need as who we seek for a mate, what car we drive, our tastes in music, or our food preferences. Forget knives in total, look at how much difference of opinion there is with regard with handles and blade material. 

The reason most like the forum is that we love hearing the opinions and enthusiasm of posters such as yourself. In other words, the forum would rightfully quickly die were it not for the willingness for those willing to stand up for what they love about all things knife related. 

I'm completely stoked to get my gengetsu tomorrow. I'm sad that, due to unforseen things that have come up, I'll hardly be able to use it for a couple of weeks. But, make no mistake, betcha I'm gonna love it, so thanks. If I hadn't been on this forum, I, like almost everybody in the world, would have been oblivious as to its existence.


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## JBroida (Jan 20, 2017)

i had privately mentioned to him how i was worried that all of the hype on here has me worried... i think the gengetsu are great knives, but they arent the best knives on the face of the planet. I am a firm believer that managing expectations is rather important... i want people to have a realistic view of what they are getting. After not having them in for years, I think peoples memory of them might be a bit jaded.


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## supersayan3 (Jan 20, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Just to reiterate, everything I've said is just my OPINION. Gengetsu is just a knife that is perfect for me. There's plenty of people around the forum who openly declare their fave knife they've used so far-that's all I'm really doing. Your tastes may not be similar to mine. Forgive me for pointing out something that might be obvious to some but not so much with others.



I am an enthusiastic person, and I really love the vibrations/beats/enlightenments and purity you get from such a situation/condition.
(Forgive my poor English).
I know there are many dislikers of this attitude of life. 
I really enjoy that you are having a blast and expressing it!
By the way, I like your name, maybe I will steal it some time in the future


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## Ruso (Jan 20, 2017)

JBroida said:


> i had privately mentioned to him how i was worried that all of the hype on here has me worried... i think the gengetsu are great knives, but they arent the best knives on the face of the planet. I am a firm believer that managing expectations is rather important... i want people to have a realistic view of what they are getting. After not having them in for years, I think peoples memory of them might be a bit jaded.



Respect Jon!


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## TheCaptain (Jan 20, 2017)

JBroida said:


> i had privately mentioned to him how i was worried that all of the hype on here has me worried... i think the gengetsu are great knives, but they arent the best knives on the face of the planet. I am a firm believer that managing expectations is rather important... i want people to have a realistic view of what they are getting. After not having them in for years, I think peoples memory of them might be a bit jaded.



That being said the overwhelming consensus is they are a great bang for the buck. Nothing at all wrong with that, in fact everything is right about it.

So I'm trying to decide...White #2 or semi-stainless?


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## swarth (Jan 20, 2017)

That is the question.


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## panda (Jan 20, 2017)

the only reason i never tried one is because it is not full carbon, i detest stainless clad. the hide in w#2 on the other hand is pretty interesting.


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## chinacats (Jan 20, 2017)

I'm with Panda on this...but the fact they almost never show up on b/s/t is the real clue to how good these knives are in use.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 20, 2017)

I agree that stainless clad is harder to get the sharpening scratches out of, I think its definitely a build design that's being adopted by other makers though. 

Personally I'm a fan and it was a tough decision wither to go White #2 or SSS. I went with the latter, I'm decent with the stones so I think I'll be able achieve the sharpness I expect.


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## Timthebeaver (Jan 20, 2017)

Semi stainless all day long.


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## ewebb10 (Jan 20, 2017)

What does semi stainless do better than white #2, other than corrosion resistance? Or is it just personal preference?


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## JBroida (Jan 20, 2017)

ewebb10 said:


> What does semi stainless do better than white #2, other than corrosion resistance? Or is it just personal preference?



Edge retention and toughness and durability too... the white 2 sharpens more easily and gets sharper


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## TheCaptain (Jan 20, 2017)

So white #2 would be a better choice for some still learning how to use stones?


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## JBroida (Jan 20, 2017)

it depends... sometimes better edge retention means more in those cases, as that will mean less sharpening. But either should be fine, as neither is hard to sharpen. But if ease of sharpening is what you want, the white #2 is the way to go.


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## Ruso (Jan 20, 2017)

With carbon core you should get a nice contrast against stainless clad once patina sets. Unless semi-stainless is on a reactive side.


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## JBroida (Jan 20, 2017)

the semi-stainless will patina slowly, but you will get contrast over time... it will just take a lot longer


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## CB1968 (Jan 20, 2017)

This will be the second SS Gengetsu I have purchased from Jon, loved the first one so much, I would consider this knife to be a workhorse, FWIW I found sharpening to be pretty straight forward and edge retention is also very good.


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## Kristoff (Jan 23, 2017)

Just received my gengetsu. Not surprised with the awesome care put into the packaging from JKI. I think I kinda take it for granted nowadays lol.

But anyway. All I can say is wow! Light and nimble yet doesn't feel like a laser. Super sharp. IIRC I think it's just as sharp as my mizuno honyaki white2 after paying for the optimum sharpening. Don't know if thats the standard sharpness OOTB of a gengetsu. Love everything about it. Wish I have the 210mm too. Maybe take a second job? Haha.

I love it. Stunning knife!


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 24, 2017)

Got my 210 SSS yesterday too. I'll admit that I was surprised at how it first felt on the board, very light and stiff. Edge was good, but I like a bit more tooth to it so a few swipes across the Takenoko did the trick. 

I prepped a Thai pork stir-fry so was able to mess with onions, peppers, garlic, ginger, chili's, long beans. It flew through everything. The knife is quite light, far lighter than my 210 Kato WH, Shig kasumi, DT ITK but its also more nimble in the hand even though the balance is a good inch in front of the pinch grip. I rocked some herbs too and the profile handled them perfect even though the knife has a HUGE/useful flat spot. The core steel kept a great edge, defiantly feels like stainless and is pretty reactive. After one small prep session, the core has quite a bit of patina on it. Food separation is excellent and it flys through onions like nobody business. 

We like to discuss workhorse knives around here. This is defiantly a workhorse knife. Robust spine, thin but not fragile edge and plows through food with control and finesse. Like many of you. I never thought this blade would come back to life. I'm very thankful to Jon for bringing this knife back from the dead. Its a beauty!


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## fatboylim (Jan 24, 2017)

Does anyone with a Tanaka Ginsan Nashiji able to make a comparison with the Gengetsu semi-stainless? I prefer heavier workhorse knives.


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## daveb (Jan 24, 2017)

I've both. 

To me the Tanaka is a very good cutter, though not as thin at tip nor as good with food release as the Gengetsu. But it's also half the coin. The Gengetsu is a better knife by almost any measure including sharpening. And it just feels right. 

I do some prep work in a busy kitchen where a knife laid down may become a knife used. A little chaotic. There I use the Tanaka. I won't cry if it's knocked off a table.
It's a workhorse in the sense that it will do anything that's thrown at it and can take a little abuse. And at the end of the day I can buy another with a few clicks.

I also do prep for an off-site caterer and for product demonstrations. There I have more control of my surroundings, frequently have the kitchen to myself. I use the Gengetsu. It too will do anything thrown at it, is more fun to use and is a better knife. I don't abuse it but it would probably take some. But if it took a hit I would need to find a "safe space".

I've had a few knives come and go but both of these are keepers. If trying to choose just one, get the Gengetsu while in stock.


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## Lazarus (Jan 24, 2017)

My 210 and 240 Gengetsu came in today, just gotta say wow. What a treat to use.


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## Nemo (Jan 24, 2017)

Can anyone comment on specific elements of performance please?

_I.e._: performance in hard foods, wet foods/food release, tomatoes, tip performance, etc.

Direct comparisons of these elements of performance with other well known knives would be great if possible.


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## foody518 (Jan 24, 2017)

To be honest from digging up threads on Gengetsu (before the restock), I'd gotten the impression that it was going to be a bit heftier and thicker than mine is. Maybe my understanding of middleweight is heavy compared to others'. It's perplexing me because it seems to have similar spine specs and look & feel of the grind compared to a couple of others I have, yet it seems to just slip through foods a little bit more effortlessly. And the tip is just silly.


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## Barmoley (Jan 24, 2017)

I think it is because it has a type of s-grind, which makes it lighter than similar knives with convex grind. Also, chestnut must be heavier than ho wood, so the balance feels more neutral to me.


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## trvn (Jan 24, 2017)

My gengetsu arrived but had to be sent back immediately because of a chipped tip in shipping. Jon is taking care of me but still :bashhead:

so close...


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## Evilsports (Jan 24, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Can anyone comment on specific elements of performance please?
> 
> _I.e._: performance in hard foods, wet foods/food release, tomatoes, tip performance, etc.
> 
> Direct comparisons of these elements of performance with other well known knives would be great if possible.




I second this, please! I'm in the market for my first Japanese knife and the Gengetsu has made it to my short list along with Ginga.

I'm curious to get folks impressions of these. 

Kevin.


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## stollio (Jan 24, 2017)

I decided to do a side by side with my 210mm Shun Edo I was coming from and my new 240mm Gengetsu, since the Gengetsu felt so light in the hand. Despite being shorter and having a lot less distal taper, the Shun was a whopping 281g vs 165 on my Gengetsu. I think the steel bolster and huge handle are where most of the extra weight was. Night and day difference in feel and balance between the 2. 

Can't wait to do more actual testing this weekend!


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## foody518 (Jan 24, 2017)

281g? Yikes, I don't think my 270mm Misono Swedish weighs that much


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## stollio (Jan 25, 2017)

foody518 said:


> 281g? Yikes, I don't think my 270mm Misono Swedish weighs that much



Ya, I think I have lighter cleavers


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## fatboylim (Jan 25, 2017)

daveb said:


> I've both.
> 
> To me the Tanaka is a very good cutter, though not as thin at tip nor as good with food release as the Gengetsu. But it's also half the coin. The Gengetsu is a better knife by almost any measure including sharpening. And it just feels right.
> 
> ...



That is awesome advice daveb! Much appreciated.


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## skewed (Jan 25, 2017)

foody518 said:


> To be honest from digging up threads on Gengetsu (before the restock), I'd gotten the impression that it was going to be a bit heftier and thicker than mine is. Maybe my understanding of middleweight is heavy compared to others'. It's perplexing me because it seems to have similar spine specs and look & feel of the grind compared to a couple of others I have, yet it seems to just slip through foods a little bit more effortlessly. And the tip is just silly.



I am feeling the same. It is very nimble and fairly light but still stiff. It is similar to an Itinomonn in hand but performs a might bit better. Better flat area and the tip is so nice and thin. I haven't touch it up yet. I used it a full day at work and I think it could handle a few more days before needing a trip on a fine stone. The SSS core took a matte grey with a touch of blue patina kind of like Itinomonn SSS.

Still need to try it out on a number of other items but all in all it is a nice knife.


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## Barmoley (Jan 25, 2017)

To me Itinomonn feels more blade heavy. Food release so far seems better on the Gengetsu.


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## JaVa (Jan 25, 2017)

daveb said:


> I've both.
> 
> To me the Tanaka is a very good cutter, though not as thin at tip nor as good with food release as the Gengetsu. But it's also half the coin. The Gengetsu is a better knife by almost any measure including sharpening. And it just feels right.
> 
> ...



Where does this magical place of "can buy another Tanaka ginsan nashiji with a few clicks" locate?  
The new stock James got seem to have an upgraded much thinner grind then the older versions. There's just one 240 left at K&S and who know when more are available again? 

From all the commotion surrounding the Gengetsu it seems to be a real pure bred performance gyuto and a very sound choice. :thumbsup:


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## TheCaptain (Jan 25, 2017)

Ugg. Mine just arrived. At work. I can't unwrap it because it _could_ be considered a weapon and I have to take it on mass transit.

Sooooo tempted...but nopenopenope!


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## labor of love (Jan 25, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> Ugg. Mine just arrived. At work. I can't unwrap it because it _could_ be considered a weapon and I have to take it on mass transit.
> 
> Sooooo tempted...but nopenopenope!


Take it into the bathroom and have look.


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## foody518 (Jan 25, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> Ugg. Mine just arrived. At work. I can't unwrap it because it _could_ be considered a weapon and I have to take it on mass transit.
> 
> Sooooo tempted...but nopenopenope!



I should start delivering to the office too... My local USPS seems like it has been delivering to everywhere BUT my door...


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## labor of love (Jan 25, 2017)

skewed said:


> I am feeling the same. It is very nimble and fairly light but still stiff. It is similar to an Itinomonn in hand but performs a might bit better. Better flat area and the tip is so nice and thin. I haven't touch it up yet. I used it a full day at work and I think it could handle a few more days before needing a trip on a fine stone. The SSS core took a matte grey with a touch of blue patina kind of like Itinomonn SSS.
> 
> Still need to try it out on a number of other items but all in all it is a nice knife.


Here's a link to my old gengetsu, it was a 270mm though.
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/17374-Gengetsu-gyuto-FS?highlight=Gengetsu


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## foody518 (Jan 25, 2017)

That 270mm looks really nice...


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## labor of love (Jan 25, 2017)

Pretty sure that SOB daveb owns it now. Maybe he'll do a pass around &#128512;


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## daveb (Jan 25, 2017)

That sure is a purty knife.


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## skewed (Jan 25, 2017)

daveb said:


> That sure is a purty knife.



Now you are just being cruel.


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## ManofTaste (Jan 28, 2017)

I received my 240mm semi-stainless a couple of days ago. 'Tis a thing of beauty and cuts like a dream. I have so far only tried it on carrots, which are a good test of wedging. It just glides through them, leaving glassy smooth surfaces in its wake. Wow! :doublethumbsup:


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## krell (Jan 28, 2017)

I've had my eye on a 210 Wakui for a while now but find myself tempted by the Gengetsu. Can anyone offer an comparison or opinion? Thanks in advance


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## KeithA (Jan 28, 2017)

Oddly enough, I was just comparing my 240 versions of those two knives today. First off, I absolutely love the Wakui. Secondly, it was a very short session only with ginger, green onions, an apple, and a yellow onion. Also, I was only observing for three things: food retention on the blade, slicing, and light chopping. In all three, the Gengetsu, imo, was a bit better. Chopping the green onion was the most noticable difference. I'd also mention that, while the tip area of the Wakui is no slouch, I was super impressed by that of the Gengetsu when working on the yellow onion. It was out of this world cool.

I also was thinking about which I would purchase if I could only have one, given the price difference. In the end, I felt I liked the Gengetsu enough that I'd still go for it despite spending a bit more. Keep in mind this is just my two cents, I still love the Wakui, and I'm not as skilled a user as most on this board, but that's what I'd do.


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## JaVa (Jan 29, 2017)

KeithA said:


> Oddly enough, I was just comparing my 240 versions of those two knives today. First off, I absolutely love the Wakui. Secondly, it was a very short session only with ginger, green onions, an apple, and a yellow onion. Also, I was only observing for three things: food retention on the blade, slicing, and light chopping. In all three, the Gengetsu, imo, was a bit better. Chopping the green onion was the most noticable difference. I'd also mention that, while the tip area of the Wakui is no slouch, I was super impressed by that of the Gengetsu when working on the yellow onion. It was out of this world cool.
> 
> I also was thinking about which I would purchase if I could only have one, given the price difference. In the end, I felt I liked the Gengetsu enough that I'd still go for it despite spending a bit more. Keep in mind this is just my two cents, I still love the Wakui, and I'm not as skilled a user as most on this board, but that's what I'd do.



Which Wakui, Kasumi/hairline or KU, SS clad or iron clad? 
Which Gengetsu, SSS or W2?


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## KeithA (Jan 29, 2017)

Wakui: SS clad
Gengetsu: Semi-stainless


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## JaVa (Jan 29, 2017)

KeithA said:


> Wakui: SS clad
> Gengetsu: Semi-stainless



Thanks 

Still if you don't mind?
Is the Wakui SS KU or Kasumi?


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## KeithA (Jan 29, 2017)

Here's where my "new to Japanese knives" self-catagory surfaces. I know what a KU finish is as that's what my Watanabe has. It is not that. I'm a bit nebulous on what a Kasumi finish is. I read it described as "misty" As best I can, I have the stainless clad w2 as sold by Bernals, definitely not a KU finish.


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## JaVa (Jan 29, 2017)

KeithA said:


> Here's where my "new to Japanese knives" self-catagory surfaces. I know what a KU finish is as that's what my Watanabe has. I'm a bit nebulous on what a Kasumi finish is. As best I can, I have the stainless clad w2 finish as sold by Bernals.



Yep, that's the Wakui kasumi. :thumbsup: 
Also someplaces call the Wakui kasumi as hairline.

If I remember correctly, like you said: 
kasumi=misty 

Gengetsu, Itinomonn StainLess and that Wakui all have kasumi finishes. 

Thanks for the Wakui and Gengetsu comparison. Interesting read! :cool2:


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## KeithA (Jan 29, 2017)

Well, thank you for educating me, Java. That's cool to know. All I can say is that, when I got the Wakui, I kept on looking at the blade and thinking how beautiful the finish was. Guess I'm a kasumi man.


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## JaVa (Jan 29, 2017)

If the tip works better on the Gengetsu is it noticeably thinner than on the Wakui?


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## KeithA (Jan 29, 2017)

With my eyes, I can't see a difference. I just went to the kitchen though as we have a moldy on the outside red onion, so I cut it in half as you do when dicing an onion. I took both my misty :bliss: finished knives and did, to my perception, notice a slight difference in scoring the top of the onion. The gengetsu seemed to offer a bit less resistance in the process. Both do an excellent job though. And, remember, these are just my impressions. Somebody else might get different results. Just for fun, I went out and tested five other gyutos on that same onion (now it is harder and less telling because the scoring is all over the tops of both halves). But, there are some real significant differences. One knife, which I refuse to mention, did significantly worse. It was real hard to tell though as the onion was like a battlefield in the Civil War by this time. Oh, the horror, the horror.

I think the tip areas of both the Gengetsu and Wakui are very good.


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## MontezumaBoy (Jan 29, 2017)

JaVa - You may want to consider some other parts of these knives - specifically the handle and re-activity of the stainless steel cladding. I have a Wakui sujihiki (2+ years old now) and I bought it for the blade as the handle was cheaply made/finished - I knew this when I bought it ... I already had a Mickey handle for it so that was taken care of right away ... I believe they have since upgraded their handles so I don't know if this is currently any issue but the Gengetsu handles are great IMO - burnt chestnut with horn ferrule (F&F are excellent) ... Second - my Wakui suji has only been used for proteins but there is definitely some reactivity in the Wakui cladding than the JKI Gengetsu's (I have a White #2 - 210 mm gyuto for several years now along with the new 240's, one SS and one white). None of my Gengetsu's show any sign of reactivity (i.e. greying or streaking on the cladding) so I believe the level of "stainless" is a bit better on the Gengetsu - I know there is a thread on this issue with the Wakui's somewhere (Note: This is a cosmetic issue too me but just figured I would point it out for you to re-search yourself). Also for all I know Wakui has changed the cladding to a more robust stainless ... Good luck with what ever you choose - just don't wait too long on the JKI Gengetsu's if that is the direction you go ... ask me how I know ... :O


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## trvn (Jan 30, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Does anyone with a Tanaka Ginsan Nashiji able to make a comparison with the Gengetsu semi-stainless? I prefer heavier workhorse knives.



I also have both, they're my first two japanese knives. My gengetsu is a lot flatter profile than my tanaka. If you rock the gengetsu on the board it comes to a solid stop, while you can dance around with the tanaka a bit more. I found the tanaka a bit better to rock chop with because of this, but the gengetsu is a way better push cutter.

I'm less worried about the tanaka when I use it, feels a bit more sturdy which could be the ginsan steel. With the gengetsu I definitely feel like I need to pay attention to what I'm doing a bit more as it's so thin behind the edge.

I love both of them. That being said I'll echo dave's assessment that the Gengetsu just feels right...it's probably the one I'll be reaching for the majority of the time.


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## Moooza (Jan 30, 2017)

I couldn't resist and finally decided to order a white #2 240mm gyuto. I can't wait to get it.


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## trvn (Feb 2, 2017)

Can anyone compare the Gengetsu to Koishi gyuto's? Thinking of taking advantage of the Masakage sale going on at Knifewear but have a hunch they might be redundant knives


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## skewed (Feb 3, 2017)

trvn said:


> ... they might be redundant knives



LOL- I think most people would think my entire modest collection of 10-15 gyutos are redundant. Egads, I think I should sell a few.


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## foody518 (Feb 3, 2017)

trvn said:


> Can anyone compare the Gengetsu to Koishi gyuto's? Thinking of taking advantage of the Masakage sale going on at Knifewear but have a hunch they might be redundant knives



Koishi's a fair bit heavier, isn't it?


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## NotThinEnough (Feb 8, 2017)

trvn said:


> Can anyone compare the Gengetsu to Koishi gyuto's? Thinking of taking advantage of the Masakage sale going on at Knifewear but have a hunch they might be redundant knives



very very different knives.


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## labor of love (Feb 8, 2017)

trvn said:


> Can anyone compare the Gengetsu to Koishi gyuto's? Thinking of taking advantage of the Masakage sale going on at Knifewear but have a hunch they might be redundant knives



My opinion only here(for whatever reason it seems necessary to say that these days) I didn't like the continuous curve the masakage koishi profile has. The grind was fine, but if you want big bevel+crazy thin behind the edge but with some beef near the spine there's other stuff I prefer. Gengetsu=prob lighter overall, but with better flat spots in the profile(if that's your thing, it certainly is mine) 240mm is thinner than I imagined but still a slow taper from spine to maybe 12mm before the edge where it gets really thin. Gengetsu handles are amazing though, even compared to masakage koishi which are above average also.


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