# Fillet knife vs deba



## Briochy

Is there any advantages of using deba to cheaper more available fillet knives? Every time I see videos of people filleting fish, fillet knives seem to do the job a lot quicker.


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## Ochazuke

You ever used a fillet knife to go through a fish head? It’s cuz westerners don’t eat all the fish.


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## Brian Weekley

Very interesting question ... last summer I got a batch of salmon (Sockeye I think) for smoking. Unlike previous sessions I pulled out my deba’s... and favourites Hankotsu to fillet the fish. Here’s a pic of the knives.







And the fish ...















The smoker and the final result ...









I can sure say that using the deba’s as opposed to my normal filleting knife was a bit of an experience. I was definitely pretty rough at the beginning but by the fourth fish I was getting the hang of using the deba. The smoked result certainly didn’t suffer from the choice although I over smoked the batch a bit. I’m a convert though and will be using the deba from here on.

Great experience. 

BTW the fish came fresh and head off.


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## KenHash

Debas and Western Fillet knives are used differently. With the former a fillet is removed by short multiple strokes very tight along the backbone resulting in hardly anything left, whereas a Western fillet knife is used by a single long pull all along the length of the fish. And as mentioned, additionally the Deba is used to break down head and bones.


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## Carl Kotte

I love using my debas, but I’m not good at it. The cheap flexible stuff though - here I have a lot of experience and I’m pretty good at it. Sure: if I’m in a hurry, flexible is the way to go for me. When I have the time and want to enjoy the whole process of breaking down a fish, I pick up my debas.


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## Briochy

I'm asking this out of the position of inexperience - I have never used either. But I know one day, I'll have to choose one. The answers generally align with my understanding.


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## J.C

I will choose any of my beater gyuto than a deba. If you don't have any experience with deba, you will likely to ruin (break) the fish meat.
If you fancy a deba, better to start with practicing at home (buy some small whole size fish) and practice every time you got the chance. Upgrade the size when you feel confident and lastly try not just to fillet the fish but breaking down a whole fish. If you curious, you can buy a book published by Josh Niland called “the whole fish” which can be easily found in Oz.


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## Carl Kotte

So, here’s my major contribution to this thread. I’m not great at filleting, but I’m ok qua home cook. Here’s some perch I handled with three different knives. Love the debas, but for speed, slim and flexible is way easier for me. All were prepared the same way. Scales removed (I hate doing that), head off and gutted.


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## Briochy

Carl Kotte said:


> So, here’s my major contribution to this thread. I’m not great at filleting, but I’m ok qua home cook. Here’s some perch I handled with three different knives. Love the debas, but for spend slim and flexible is easier for me. All were prepared the same way. Scales removed (I hate doing that), head off and gutted.
> View attachment 69260
> View attachment 69261
> View attachment 69262
> View attachment 69263
> View attachment 69264


Seems to both be as clean as fillets can be, good job. Which one was faster though?


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## Carl Kotte

Briochy said:


> Seems to both be as clean as fillets can be, good job. Which one was faster though?


Yeah, sorry, auto-correct did me a disservice (where it said 'spend' it should have been 'speed'). For me, flexible is way faster. But, as said, I'm no pro. However, since you're a home cook too, I thought that input from a fellow non-professional could be relevant.


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## Briochy

That is certainly what I was looking for.


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## Xenif

Munetoshi Butchers knife works pretty well, Monkfish sold separately.


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## Carl Kotte

Xenif said:


> Munetoshi Butchers knife works pretty well, Monkfish sold separately. View attachment 69271



Oh lala xenif! I love monkfish. No head?


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## Xenif

Carl Kotte said:


> Oh lala xenif! I love monkfish. No head?


They tend to sell these without heads, probably because they are pretty ugly looking


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## Carl Kotte

Xenif said:


> They tend to sell these without heads, probably because they are pretty ugly looking



Ugly?!? I’m offended. Besides, the head hides the cheeks. And they are amazing! Plus you get a cool antenna.


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## daveb

I grew up with a flexi fillet knife - some variant of DR has been in my tackle bag since forever. I started using a Deba a few years ago along with the rest of the suite of Jknives. The technique is different and it requires a bit more skill.

For clean and precise work I prefer the deba - and I'm getting faster with it.
For speed (though not so pretty) the fillet.


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## dafox

daveb said:


> I grew up with a flexi fillet knife - some variant of DR has been in my tackle bag since forever. I started using a Deba a few years ago along with the rest of the suite of Jknives. The technique is different and it requires a bit more skill.
> 
> For clean and precise work I prefer the deba - and I'm getting faster with it.
> For speed (though not so pretty) the fillet.
> 
> View attachment 69287


Masamoto Yanagi? What size?
Brand of deba?


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## Forsberg

Interesting thread. 
I was looking for some advise on what kind of debas ppl was keen on and found this. 

I use my deba on 90% of the filet job, and then shift to my old Swedish flex knive, to remove the meat down along the ribs. 

500+ fishes and this seems to be the fastest and cleanest way for me to do it.
The major advantage on the deba is the sharpnes and the edge retention. The scales on the fish is no problem for the deba, but absolutely kills the flex knive. 

Here is your monkfish [emoji6]
I'm using Watanabe deba


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## Carl Kotte

Forsberg said:


> The scales on the fish is no problem for the deba, but absolutely kills the flex knive.



Hmm, interesting, this is not my experience. I take debas to work fine scales on, but wonderfully well scales removed. Flex on the other hand works irrespective of whether the scales are removed or not.


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## Dendrobatez

I like debas more than flexi filet knives for most fish. Unless you have a small deba fish like Dover sole can be tricky. 
I can cut through the spine, scrape with it, and the bevel makes it easier to get a clean end product - you can lay the bevel down flat on the ribs and glide right across to top. It's all about what works for you though, Ive seen old timers use a serrated knife who do a better job than most with a deba/filet knife.


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## Alder26

I find that for salmon its just about having a big knife. I use a 12'' scimitar to remove fillets off a 12~lbs salmon everyday and have found nothing better for the job. 

Debas tend to shine when dealing with thicker bones. They're heavy which helps going through them, and the shape of debas allows you to ride along them very well. 

I think flexi knives are a little bit easier to pick up and use intuitively but I think debas do a better job after a little practice


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## Oshidashi

It's nice to have both on the bench: Deba for cutting off heads, steaking a big fish, or cutting through a large individual's heavy rib cage; and a thin flexible fillet knife for trimming flesh closely from the dorsal spine, and skin removal. I think a thin flexible knife is indispensable for removing the skin from a fillet.


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## KenHash

Oshidashi said:


> I think a thin flexible knife is indispensable for removing the skin from a fillet.



I used to think that too and always used a long flexible fillet knife. But several years ago I started using my Yanagibas which work just fine even without the flexibility.


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## Oshidashi

Yanagi are amazing and I am sure one can skin a fish skin-side-down on a board with it. However, the need to stay parallel to the cutting board is crucial and the yanagi has no knuckle clearance to allow that. So the handle of the yanagi and your hand would have to extend off the side of the board to achieve that parallel angle, and the fish must also be brought to the edge of the board. Such manipulation may be awkward or in some cases not possible especially in some outdoor stations, or with large fish. The thin flexible blade of a fillet knife, however, will bend easily to conform with the horizontal surface and will also tend to find its way along the correct plane between dermis and muscle. I also wonder if the yanagi's blade's asymmetry would tend to direct the cut into the flesh or through the skin in this situation where parallelness is of seemingly paramount importance; if that is the case a suji would be better than a yanagi and a fillet knife better than either. Hypothetically, that is.


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## Ochazuke

Oshidashi said:


> Yanagi are amazing and I am sure one can skin a fish skin-side-down on a board with it. However, the need to stay parallel to the cutting board is crucial and the yanagi has no knuckle clearance to allow that. So the handle of the yanagi and your hand would have to extend off the side of the board to achieve that parallel angle, and the fish must also be brought to the edge of the board. Such manipulation may be awkward or in some cases not possible especially in some outdoor stations, or with large fish. The thin flexible blade of a fillet knife, however, will bend easily to conform with the horizontal surface and will also tend to find its way along the correct plane between dermis and muscle. I also wonder if the yanagi's blade's asymmetry would tend to direct the cut into the flesh or through the skin in this situation where parallelness is of seemingly paramount importance; if that is the case a suji would be better than a yanagi and a fillet knife better than either. Hypothetically, that is.


I think the reality of the situation may differ from your hypothesis.

I break down all shapes and sizes of fish 6 days a week. I use a yanagiba to remove the skin on most of them. It’s very easy and precise.

It’s especially good when dealing with customers who don’t want to see or eat 血合い. You can easily remove the skin and the dark meat in one go with little waste and not have to further trim your nice filet or saku.


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## Oshidashi

Good to know, Ochazuke


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## jwthaparc

I think people are forgetting one of the most important parts.... Debas..Are..Cooler..


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## KenHash

Oshidashi said:


> Yanagi are amazing and I am sure one can skin a fish skin-side-down on a board with it. However, the need to stay parallel to the cutting board is crucial and the yanagi has no knuckle clearance to allow that. So the handle of the yanagi and your hand would have to extend off the side of the board to achieve that parallel angle, and the fish must also be brought to the edge of the board. Such manipulation may be awkward or in some cases not possible especially in some outdoor stations, or with large fish. The thin flexible blade of a fillet knife, however, will bend easily to conform with the horizontal surface and will also tend to find its way along the correct plane between dermis and muscle. I also wonder if the yanagi's blade's asymmetry would tend to direct the cut into the flesh or through the skin in this situation where parallelness is of seemingly paramount importance; if that is the case a suji would be better than a yanagi and a fillet knife better than either. Hypothetically, that is.



I have never had a problem with "knuckle clearance" as the thickness of the board (even a fairly thin one) was sufficient to raise the filet high enough to pose no problem because the handle is held horizontally as opposed to vertically, requiring less space for the hand. The single bevel asymmetric yanagi has never posed any problems in terms of steer or digging into the flesh. I would suggest giving it a try even just for the experience.


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## damiano

Quite a lot of fish butchering expertise in this thread! Thanks  

How would you guys rate a double bevel western deba versus a traditional Japanese single bevel deba? For breaking down fish, but also e.g. for handling crustaceans? 

And would a sujihiki come close to a yanagiba for removing skin of a fish?


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## GorillaGrunt

I bet there are plenty of people who are really good with the yanagi but I like the sujihiki for skinning. Only use the deba for breaking down fish, single bevel; double bevel deba is too thick near the edge for boning out the fish but great for taking the heads and collars off, also great for chickens. YMMV though, I’ve only got one instance of each deba and am not very skilled with either.


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## btbyrd

If you're cutting through shell or bone, double bevels have a more durable edge that can handle a fair bit of abuse. They're cleaverlike. I don't think they're very good for chicken unless you're going through bone (in which case, they're great). Single bevels are slightly better at removing filets because of the geometry, but I think the difference between a traditional deba and a western deba in this respect is often exaggerated. Technique matters more than bevel type for cleanly separating flesh from bone.

In my experience, sujis and yanagis are basically equally good at taking skin off a filet.


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## GorillaGrunt

Whoops I didn’t specify - yes, the double bevel deba not for boning chicken but for breaking it down with the bones, cutting through the breastbone and cutting out the backbone.


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## Jason183

Deba knives good at fileting fish and cutting through bones, western Fileting knives also good at fileting fish but you can’t cut through bones with it, especially those flexible ones


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## Carl Kotte

Jason183 said:


> Deba knives good at fileting fish and cutting through bones, western Fileting knives also good at fileting fish but you can’t cut through bones with it, especially those flexible ones


What do you mean? What bones can’t you cut through with flexible knives?


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## Jason183

Carl Kotte said:


> What do you mean? What bones can’t you cut through with flexible knives?


Fish head bones, sometimes I cut the fish head in half to make soups, I tried with fileting knife one time, definitely not easy to do


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## Carl Kotte

Jason183 said:


> Fish head bones, sometimes I cut the fish head in half to make soups, I tried with fileting knife one time, definitely not easy to do


Ok, that makes sense! Thanks!


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## DavidPF

I can't do either one, but it seems (from what's been said on this thread and elsewhere) like whichever knife you have practice and prior success with is going to stay best for you, unless you do a *lot* of extra practice on the other one. Already knowing a method that gets the job done can be a pretty big disincentive to learning a new one.


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