# What’s the point of a point (on a longer blade)



## Jeff (Dec 28, 2022)

OK, I get it, there is some “point to it.”

But usually when I’m doing point work, I have a shorter knife (i.e. Honesuki) or at least a second shorter knife by my board.

It just seems a little unweildly to do point work with a 240-300 mm knife.

I actually prefer slicers and bread knives with rounded tips.

Thoughts?


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## Benuser (Dec 28, 2022)

The only reason some slicers, especially ham slicers, have a rounded tip is because they were or are being used to present a slice to the customer.


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## blokey (Dec 28, 2022)

Stabby


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## Jeff (Dec 28, 2022)

GOOD POINT !


Bit what point would a point on the tip serve?

Seems it would just be an opportunity for a kitchen incident.


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## Jeff (Dec 28, 2022)

blokey said:


> Stabby



You mean they can also be used as “server prods?”


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## blokey (Dec 28, 2022)

Jeff said:


> You mean they can also be used as “server prods?”


Unruly customers need to be dealt with.


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## Pie (Dec 28, 2022)

Takobiki reasoning at its finest. 

There’s Something about no tip so you don’t point something pointy at someone important.. but yeah I never really use the tip on a yanagi. 

Suji? Maaaaybe. Sometimes. Gyuto? Heck yes 270mm who needs a petty


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## Nemo (Dec 28, 2022)

I definitely use the tip on my longer (270mm) gyutos.

Great (for example) for high volume onion prep.


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## myguidingmoonlight (Dec 28, 2022)

For me, the pointy shape is just cooler than a long rectangular blade. It's also fun for drag cuts on avocados.


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## BillHanna (Dec 28, 2022)

Pie said:


> Cleaver reasoning at its finest.


Fixed


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## Jeff (Dec 28, 2022)

blokey said:


> Unruly customers need to be dealt with.




As well as those moving too slowly through the buffet line … or those coming thru AGAIN!


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## KnightKnightForever (Dec 28, 2022)

In this context, where many of us are home users who have an ample selection of tools and space to store their tools, a long blade to do point work isn't necessary. But as a former chef, you can't beat one nicely made tool that can do everything. Less keeping track of expensive knives, more focusing on fast service.

Plus, there's a lot of skill involved in mastering a chef knife


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## daveb (Dec 28, 2022)

Points are thinnnnnnn


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## Jeff (Dec 28, 2022)

daveb said:


> Points are thinnnnnnn




I have some thin points on shorter blades.


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## Jeff (Dec 28, 2022)

KnightKnightForever said:


> In this context, where many of us are home users who have an ample selection of tools and space to store their tools, a long blade to do point work isn't necessary. But as a former chef, you can't beat one nicely made tool that can do everything. Less keeping track of expensive knives, more focusing on fast service.
> 
> Plus, there's a lot of skill involved in mastering a chef knife



Iagree that dewer blades on the board is an ideal in a professional kitchen.

 But at home: Why use 2 tools when you have an opportunity to justifying NEEDNG 10 tools to your wife


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## IsoJ (Dec 29, 2022)

As a home user, if I can use a long pointy thing for something not needy, that is my first choice because why not.


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## KnightKnightForever (Dec 29, 2022)

Jeff said:


> Iagree that dewer blades on the board is an ideal in a professional kitchen.
> 
> But at home: Why use 2 tools when you have an opportunity to justifying NEEDNG 10 tools to your wife


Exactly.


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## neilmcginnis (Dec 29, 2022)

not once have I ever liked having a pointy tip on a knife so i definitely do not get it... it seems just to make it more dangerous and i poked myself a couple of times.. maybe im just accustomed to not having a point so its an issue. That being said I have purchased several pointy knives based on recommendations from this site but i would prefer they did not have points


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## MowgFace (Dec 29, 2022)

I dunno, i feel like i use the points of my knives more than the heels.


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## RRLOVER (Dec 29, 2022)

The point profile is what Sells me on a knife!!!....I have a certain "flavor" when it come to the tip!


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## btbyrd (Dec 29, 2022)

I used to think that the tip on a 240 or 270 was too far out there to be used well. Then I made myself cook with only large knives for a month or two and that changed. Once you get used to slinging a long blade around, it's amazing how nimble they can be.


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## iimi (Dec 29, 2022)

btbyrd said:


> I used to think that the tip on a 240 or 270 was too far out there to be used well. Then I made myself cook with only large knives for a month or two and that changed. Once you get used to slinging a long blade around, it's amazing how nimble they can be.


I taught myself pretty good knife habits early on from watching good cooks and good prep cooks, and when I see someone who can't use a large knife (that's not like 5'1"), it's usually because they're not using their arms efficiently. Elbows are usually flying everywhere and grip is often at least a little too far back to be doing any tip work. I'm average height and I am more comfortable doing tip work with a 240-250 than a 210 simply because I'm used to the extra length lending me some extra power and then I just have to keep my off hand tight.


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## sumis (Dec 30, 2022)

the point is the same as on any pointy blade: being pointy.

dad jokes aside, up to 270 is within medium length, for me that is. and i prefer using a gyuto for garlic and other small things – in my own kitchen that is (lots of space, large board, no one to measure my brunoise).

i live next door to an awesome one man omakase operation. world class dude. he uses the point of sakimaru tipped yanagiba/takobiki knives (sorry for sloppy terminology) for a lot of stuff that deadly people would use a petty for. maybe i'd do the same if i had like five 300 mm custom kenichi shiraki blades as well …

.


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## Rideon66 (Dec 30, 2022)

It is something I can feel when cutting mango in my hand. It let's me know if I went through the skin of the mango so I don't slice open my hand.


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## The_Real_Self (Dec 30, 2022)

Jeff said:


> GOOD POINT !
> 
> 
> Bit what point would a point on the tip serve?
> ...



My understanding of this based on Japanese tradition was that they had knives intended for meat/fish and others intended for slicing vegetables. Vegetables do not require a tip and it presents additional danger so you end up with the Nakiri. The Gyuto or 'cow sword' is adapted from the western cultures 'chef's knife' pattern which is also seemingly well enough suited to breaking down larger animals in a butcher environment. The Santoku is the mix of the two which gives you the more rounded tip and wider blade of the nakiri with the length and slenderness of the gyuto.

I have no use for knives with tips in the kitchen as I don't process meat or fish generally, therefore my main tool is the Nakiri.


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## Jeff (Dec 30, 2022)

The_Real_Self said:


> My understanding of this based on Japanese tradition was that they had knives intended for meat/fish and others intended for slicing vegetables. Vegetables do not require a tip and it presents additional danger so you end up with the Nakiri. The Gyuto or 'cow sword' is adapted from the western cultures 'chef's knife' pattern which is also seemingly well enough suited to breaking down larger animals in a butcher environment. The Santoku is the mix of the two which gives you the more rounded tip and wider blade of the nakiri with the length and slenderness of the gyuto.
> 
> I have no use for knives with tips in the kitchen as I don't process meat or fish generally, therefore my main tool is the Nakiri.



Truly, a “pointless” comment!



Yes, it seems a point on a knife is only warranted when it part of the function of the knife l.

As an example, I always revert to the Honesuki and how the point is an intergal part of its function.


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## KnightKnightForever (Dec 30, 2022)

Sometimes I use a 270 to dice an avocado in the husk just to be cheeky. If you can do that without cutting through, you've got the point.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 30, 2022)

The_Real_Self said:


> My understanding of this based on Japanese tradition was that they had knives intended for meat/fish and others intended for slicing vegetables. Vegetables do not require a tip and it presents additional danger so you end up with the Nakiri. The Gyuto or 'cow sword' is adapted from the western cultures 'chef's knife' pattern which is also seemingly well enough suited to breaking down larger animals in a butcher environment. The Santoku is the mix of the two which gives you the more rounded tip and wider blade of the nakiri with the length and slenderness of the gyuto.
> 
> I have no use for knives with tips in the kitchen as I don't process meat or fish generally, therefore my main tool is the Nakiri.



I miss @KenHash...






No such thing as a "Cow Sword"


In the the late 1800s, Japan underwent the Meiji Restoration. A civil war was fought and Rule was changed from the Tokugawa Shogunate to the Imperial Rule with the Emperor as head. This period is when Japan changed from a Feudal country to an industrialized one and a mass effort to "catch up"...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## Jeff (Dec 30, 2022)

MowgFace said:


> I dunno, i feel like i use the points of my knives more than the heels.



I cut myself more with the darn heel than anything else.!!!

I have heard some say they like that damn corner for cracking open coconuts! 

#Useless ! 

I have a few cutting board workhorses on which I have rounded the sharp heel corner, relieved the spine and choil.


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## Benuser (Dec 30, 2022)

If you lift the edge at the heel just a little bit, you increase the angle between choil and edge. Still perfectly usable.


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## blokey (Dec 30, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I miss @KenHash...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I saw him on bladeforum recently


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## rmrf (Dec 30, 2022)

The_Real_Self said:


> I have no use for knives with tips in the kitchen as I don't process meat or fish generally, therefore my main tool is the Nakiri.


I find it hard to cube or dice onions or mince garlic without a tip. Or remove the middle flesh of squash for stuffing. Or segment a pomalo/grapefruit. When cleaning leeks, I stab near the root and slide up so it stays intact when washing out dirt. I suppose I could push cut along the leek, but I find that harder. I don't think I use the tip anymore with meat than I do with veg. 

Things like potatoes also stick less to the tip of my knife. I could get better at cutting, or I could just cut with the tip. Until the kipp hookgrind massdrop, of course.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 30, 2022)

blokey said:


> I saw him on bladeforum recently



Really? That's good news. I'd popped over there a few months ago and he hadn't been on there either.

Thanks.


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## daveb (Dec 30, 2022)

Onions. Onions are the reason for a point. A thin point.


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## The_Real_Self (Dec 31, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I miss @KenHash...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm gonna stick with cow sword personally... it just has a nice ring to it. You can't believe everything you read on the internet, ya know?


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## The_Real_Self (Dec 31, 2022)

daveb said:


> Onions. Onions are the reason for a point. A thin point.



I process a half dozen onions a day and have zero issues using a nakiri, I find them to be very quick work for my nakiri actually.


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## Atso_J (Jan 1, 2023)

I have a point on my 240mm all rounder gyuto and my 325mm unnecessarily long behemoth of a gyuto is round tip (can still core a tomato though!).


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## daveb (Jan 1, 2023)

Sometimes it mayp be better to not have a point at the tip.

Some dumbass used the point on this one to vent a can and bent it. Now I can't cut a straight line thru the aluminum pie shell....


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## Malcolm Johnson (Jan 1, 2023)

I have a 330mm Konosuke yanagi in blue 1 and I am breaking down whole tuna loins at work into large sections, then breaking those sections down into poke cubes, steaks for cooked fish, and even do sashimi slices. I use the whole length when breaking down the loin, and then use the tip and forward section the rest of the time, including doing light scoring to the tuna on sashimi slices (with the tip) for better texture and for more surface area for any sauce needed. With a bit of practice even a lengthy 330mm yanagi become easy to use the point on for fine tasks. I’ve even done fine, fine mince for a tuna tartare using the tip.


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## Pisau (Jan 5, 2023)

I can somewhat relate to the OP's. A tip might feel redundant on a curved profile. However, not all slicers are curved. Sometimes I missed a sharp tip while using a dead straight slicer and wished I had grabbed a suji or yanagi instead; from piercing plastic wraps to ending tricky cuts on red meat. Variety-wise, I've got a 360mm long blade with a fully rounded tip to a 200mm short "wand" with a square tip (sharp elbow), both dead straight. Fun long spatulas, sure.... but ima be blunt here: They are less versatile.


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## NotAddictedYet (Yesterday at 12:14 PM)

daveb said:


> Onions. Onions are the reason for a point. A thin point.


Gengetsu


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## Matt Jacobs (Yesterday at 12:36 PM)

NotAddictedYet said:


> Gengetsu


EXACTLY, Onions and Garlic. I do a lot of food where I include some onion. Even when I am using a 260mm knife I would rather continue with that knife on garlic and onion. Now if I only am doing some garlic then yes ill grab a petty but I would prefer to use just one knife is possible during my prep.


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## daveb (Yesterday at 1:01 PM)

NotAddictedYet said:


> Gengetsu


Of course.


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