# Honyaki?



## Namaxy (Jun 6, 2012)

I realize this is likely an 'it depends' and 'varies by personal preference' type of question. For single bevel knifes, especially of the thin slicing ilk, are Honyaki constructed knives considered more classic or traditional? Are there peformance advantages associated with them, or it it more that since it's a difficult, hand made process, they are revered for how they are made and they tend to be found only at the higher end?

Thanks


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## wsfarrell (Jun 6, 2012)

My own $.02 is that honyaki blades are admired for their craftsmanship, and have few if any real performance advantages over "standard" blades.


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## Korin_Mari (Jun 6, 2012)

Honyaki or "true-forged" knives are constructed entirely out of one piece of virgin carbon steel. So unlike Kasumi knives, which are constructed out of soft iron and carbon, they aren't flexible at all. However, because they are made out of a hard steel they are sharper and have a longer kirenaga (duration of sharpness). They are difficult to forge and shape so they are often expensive. Craftsmen require a great amount of skill to forge honyaki knives and chefs need a lot of experience to use and care for them. Honyaki Japanese knives chip, crack, or break easily if used or sharpened improperly, therefore they are mostly geared towards highly advanced users. Japanese chefs have told me that there is nothing that could beat the kireaji (literally means the taste of the edge, but in this case means sharpness) of a honyaki knife, and most top sushi chefs prefer them.


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## chinacats (Jun 6, 2012)

I think I must be confused...I thought honyaki was soft spine for flex and hard edge for cutting...fairly difficult process to get right? In other words...not a single piece of steel, but more of a homogeneous blade?


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## stereo.pete (Jun 6, 2012)

@ Chinacats...The soft steel is made from the same steel as the edge, the reason it is soft is because clay is applied during the heat treatment process, which changes the way the spine hardens. Keep in mind I know absolutely nothing about metallurgy, but I have read about the process of creating Honyaki knives many times on these forums and others.


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## chinacats (Jun 6, 2012)

stereo.pete said:


> @ Chinacats...The soft steel is made from the same steel as the edge, the reason it is soft is because clay is applied during the heat treatment process, which changes the way the spine hardens. Keep in mind I know absolutely nothing about metallurgy, but I have read about the process of creating Honyaki knives many times on these forums and others.



Thanks SP, I stay confused and there is much here to aid my confusion! :scratchhead: Your explanation helps! :O


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## GlassEye (Jun 6, 2012)

chinacats said:


> I think I must be confused...I thought honyaki was soft spine for flex and hard edge for cutting...fairly difficult process to get right? In other words...not a single piece of steel, but more of a homogeneous blade?



The blade is monosteel that is differentially hardened, it will overall be harder than a kasumi knife. The process of differential hardening is also where the hamon comes from.


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## Marko Tsourkan (Jun 6, 2012)

Why would honyaki be sharper than kasumi, if say both are hardened to 63RC and made of the same steel and heat treated comparably, water quenched?

I do agree that honyaki knives are more difficult to produce (mizu honyaki that is) and that the failure rate (warping and cracking) is higher, and that sharpening 64RC blade, particularly yanagi where surface is wide, is difficult. All that adds to cost and becomes a necessity to offer them as premium knives with greater finish and materials, so they become a status symbol.

But all things being equal (same steel, same hardness, same heat treatment), there should be no difference in sharpness or edge retention.

If honyaki chips and breaks if dropped, that is a sign of higher hardness and that alone can contribute to better edge holding, but not sharpness.

M


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## ajhuff (Jun 6, 2012)

What about Suisin INOX honyaki, is it not honyaki? 

-AJ


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## Marko Tsourkan (Jun 6, 2012)

ajhuff said:


> What about Suisin INOX honyaki, is it not honyaki?
> 
> -AJ



Good question, AJ!


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## Korin_Mari (Jun 6, 2012)

Typically real kazumi knives are made out soft iron and carbon, while real honyaki are always made out of pure virgin carbon, therefore they would never be made out of the same steel, have the same hardness or have the same heat treatment. If you plan to use a different steel to make a honyaki knife, it is no longer a traditional honyaki knife. Sorry, by sharper I guess I meant would stay sharper for longer and in turn be sharper during use.

Yes, it probably is a status symbol to a certain extent, but it also means you have the skills to use it. Also just a side note, most Japanese knife crafters don't use the RC system, and even if they did it would be hard to judge the RC of a knife that is handmade and different each time. 




Mr. Doi's son is making a kasumi blade here.


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## Korin_Mari (Jun 6, 2012)

ajhuff said:


> What about Suisin INOX honyaki, is it not honyaki?
> 
> -AJ



You know, I've wondered the same thing. I will ask Suisin. :]


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## Seth (Jun 6, 2012)

My understanding is that the inox is monosteel but not differntially hardened like honyaki. It is honyaki only in the sense that it is one piece of steel.


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## Deckhand (Jun 6, 2012)

Korin_Mari said:


> Honyaki or "true-forged" knives are constructed entirely out of one piece of virgin carbon steel. So unlike Kasumi knives, which are constructed out of soft iron and carbon, they aren't flexible at all. However, because they are made out of a hard steel they are sharper and have a longer kirenaga (duration of sharpness). They are difficult to forge and shape so they are often expensive. Craftsmen require a great amount of skill to forge honyaki knives and chefs need a lot of experience to use and care for them. Honyaki Japanese knives chip, crack, or break easily if used or sharpened improperly, therefore they are mostly geared towards highly advanced users. Japanese chefs have told me that there is nothing that could beat the kireaji (literally means the taste of the edge, but in this case means sharpness) of a honyaki knife, and most top sushi chefs prefer them.


Thanks for our answer. Definitely an asset having you here.


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## JBroida (Jun 6, 2012)

Korin_Mari said:


> Typically real kazumi knives are made out soft iron and carbon, while real honyaki are always made out of pure virgin carbon, therefore they would never be made out of the same steel, have the same hardness or have the same heat treatment. If you plan to use a different steel to make a honyaki knife, it is no longer a traditional honyaki knife. Sorry, by sharper I guess I meant would stay sharper for longer and in turn be sharper during use.
> 
> Yes, it probably is a status symbol to a certain extent, but it also means you have the skills to use it. Also just a side note, most Japanese knife crafters don't use the RC system, and even if they did it would be hard to judge the RC of a knife that is handmade and different each time.
> 
> ...



actually, with regard to steel, this is not quite true. I will first say that the heat treatment and hardening often differs from awase bocho (kasumi knives and such). However, white #2 steel will still be white #2 steel whether it is in an awase bocho or honyaki bocho. Same for white #1, blue steel of all types, tamahagane, and so on.

Also, Suisin's INOX Honyaki is Zen-ko... a solid piece of steel. The heat treatment process differs here from honyaki bocho, but it is not awase bocho either. Zen-ko refers to the construction of knives like Suisin's INOX Honyaki, INOX Western, Gesshin Ginga, Sakai Yusuke, Konosuke, etc. (specifically referring to the solid steel knives from the last couple).


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## ajhuff (Jun 6, 2012)

I thought that honyaki simply meant forged to shape from one piece of steel (monosteel). I did not think steel type, differential heat treat or having a hamon were requisite.

-AJ


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## JBroida (Jun 6, 2012)

there are of course variations in the definition and the literal translation leaves much to be desired with regard to understanding what it is (honyaki= true forged). However, most japanese craftsmen will agree that a honyaki knife is hand forged from a solid piece of pure carbon steel (usually white #2, though others can also be used), and is heat treated in a manner consistent with such (using clay or a clay mixture to coat the blade and spine creating a differential tempering and usually a hamon). The quenching can occur in either oil or water (when water is used, the knife can be called mizu-honyaki). Many other knives are called honyaki because they are solid pieces of steel, but the correct term is zen-ko.


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## Deckhand (Jun 6, 2012)

I hope there isn't a quiz. I would fail miserably.


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## ajhuff (Jun 6, 2012)

Ah ha, getting clearer. So they do need to be differentially heat treated. Is the use of clay a necessity?

Also, what does "virgin carbon steel" or "pure carbon steel" mean? In my world that means steel made with no recycled content. Which in regards to mechanical properties means very little in most cases, for example, an exception would be when you are trying to avoid that nasty little bastard Boron.

-AJ


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## JBroida (Jun 6, 2012)

for the most part i would say yes to the heat treatment. On clay, not necessarily. Everyone has a different mix they use. So far, everyone i have talked to has some kind of clay in it, but i have heard of other variations.


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## Namaxy (Jun 6, 2012)

Would be interesting to know if Suisin's honyaki stainless is oil or water quenched. My guess is the former. AJ - interesting question re the terminology. Those aren't defined steel types in, for example, industrial process equipment.


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## Marko Tsourkan (Jun 6, 2012)

Namaxy said:


> Would be interesting to know if Suisin's honyaki stainless is oil or water quenched. My guess is the former. AJ - interesting question re the terminology. Those aren't defined steel types in, for example, industrial process equipment.



Oil is a good guess. According to Sandvik site, for 19C27 steel, for optimal result 1110°F should be reached within 2 minutes or less (from 1960F austenitizing temperature). 

http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/produ...ening-programs/sandvik-19c27-piece-hardening/

M


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## eto (Jun 6, 2012)

Maybe they should just take out the Honyaki out the title Suisin Inox Honyaki and call it a day. Saves on the confusion. I don't think it is a true forged Honyaki to being with, just a hunch.


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## Korin_Mari (Jun 7, 2012)

JBroida said:


> actually, with regard to steel, this is not quite true. I will first say that the heat treatment and hardening often differs from awase bocho (kasumi knives and such). However, white #2 steel will still be white #2 steel whether it is in an awase bocho or honyaki bocho. Same for white #1, blue steel of all types, tamahagane, and so on.
> 
> Also, Suisin's INOX Honyaki is Zen-ko... a solid piece of steel. The heat treatment process differs here from honyaki bocho, but it is not awase bocho either. Zen-ko refers to the construction of knives like Suisin's INOX Honyaki, INOX Western, Gesshin Ginga, Sakai Yusuke, Konosuke, etc. (specifically referring to the solid steel knives from the last couple).



Hi hi, sorry I'm a bit confused to as to what is being disagreed with. Yes, white steel will be white steel regardless. Kasumi adds a strip of soft iron, hence the other name awase bocho, but it doesn't change the classification of the steel. I was referring to was the comment "But all things being equal (same steel, same hardness, same heat treatment), there should be no difference in sharpness or edge retention." This, as we both know, is definitely not true. The forging process is different, the hardness is different, and the material is slightly different. 

I have never heard of it being referred to as zen-ko. Thats neat, thanks for the information. Would you be so kind to give me the kanji for it so I can research?


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## JBroida (Jun 7, 2012)

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## eto (Jun 8, 2012)

JBroida said:


> &#12300;&#20840;&#37628;&#12301;&#12392;&#26360;&#12356;&#12390;&#12289;&#12300;&#12380;&#12435;&#12371;&#12358;&#12301;&#12392;&#35501;&#12415;&#12414;&#12377;&#12290;&#21106;&#12426;&#36796;&#12415;&#21253;&#19969;&#12392;&#12399;&#27083;&#36896;&#12399;&#36949;&#12356;&#12414;&#12377;&#12364;&#12289;&#37628;&#12398;&#32032;&#26448;&#12381;&#12398;&#12418;&#12398;&#12364;&#24517;&#12378;&#12375;&#12418;&#36949;&#12358;&#12431;&#12369;&#12391;&#12399;&#12394;&#12356;&#12424;&#12358;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;&#31169;&#12383;&#12385;&#12418;&#21193;&#24375;&#20013;&#12391;&#12377;&#12398;&#12391;&#12289;&#12362;&#20114;&#12356;&#12289;&#12362;&#24441;&#12395;&#31435;&#12390;&#21512;&#12360;&#12383;&#12425;&#12356;&#12356;&#12391;&#12377;&#12397;



Just so we keep this a open and sharing forum so we can all understand what John is saying this is how the kanji translates, mind you my japanese is a little rusty. 
The two kanji is read "zenkou" which means full steel or 100% steel
I mean, full carbon steel, but it says it's slightly different from folding carbon steel but yet, also not exactly only just carbon.

I think the mystery continues:cheffry:


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## ajhuff (Jun 10, 2012)

Is there a requirement for a minimum number of folds for honyaki?

-AJ


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## JBroida (Jun 10, 2012)

honyaki is not necessarily folded


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## ajhuff (Jun 10, 2012)

Interesting. Is there a specific name for a forged monosteel knife that is folded multiple times?

-AJ


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## Gator (Jun 13, 2012)

Cool term  In Russian slang zenki means eyes, almost the same huh.
Anyway, I'll add to my Japanese knives terminology page.
Can't read kanji though...


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## wenus2 (Jun 13, 2012)

Holy fountain of knowledge Batman! 
:goodpost:
Where's Broida's contributor tag?
:bat:


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## Justin0505 (Jun 15, 2012)

wenus2 said:


> Holy fountain of knowledge Batman!
> :goodpost:
> Where's Broida's contributor tag?
> :bat:


+1
Seriously! 

I feel like whenever topics like these start everyone kinda stands around making confused small talk, just waiting for Jon to see the j-knife bat-signal and show up with some answers.


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## Eamon Burke (Jun 15, 2012)

Yeah, I would be totally in the dark without that guy. I defer to him for anything that requires a moderate understanding of the Japanese Language.

What would really do a world of good, would be people introducing, teaching, and perhaps even selling real, quality Japanese knives and using the English name for everything. Unless the Japanese just want to keep it a secret. In which case, let them do their thing. But there's going to be a lot of 'Inox Honyaki' and "Kasumi Titanium" out there.


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## Marko Tsourkan (Jun 15, 2012)

BurkeCutlery said:


> Yeah, I would be totally in the dark without that guy. I defer to him for anything that requires a moderate understanding of the Japanese Language.
> 
> What would really do a world of good, would be people introducing, teaching, and perhaps even selling real, quality Japanese knives and using the English name for everything. Unless the Japanese just want to keep it a secret. In which case, let them do their thing. But there's going to be a lot of 'Inox Honyaki' and "Kasumi Titanium" out there.



If you call things what they are, then junk becomes junk and quality becomes quality. Right now it is all lumped together and aimed on unsophisticated buyer. 

The funny thing, the loudest names usually imply mediocre quality (tamahagane, kasumi, katana). Reminds me of names on some Chinese companies (like car maker Chery).

M


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## ajhuff (Jul 9, 2012)

Just rereading this discussion. I am still not clear on whether the Suisin INOX honyaki is forged or not?

-AJ


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## Korin_Mari (Jul 10, 2012)

JBroida said:


> &#12300;&#20840;&#37628;&#12301;&#12392;&#26360;&#12356;&#12390;&#12289;&#12300;&#12380;&#12435;&#12371;&#12358;&#12301;&#12392;&#35501;&#12415;&#12414;&#12377;&#12290;&#21106;&#12426;&#36796;&#12415;&#21253;&#19969;&#12392;&#12399;&#27083;&#36896;&#12399;&#36949;&#12356;&#12414;&#12377;&#12364;&#12289;&#37628;&#12398;&#32032;&#26448;&#12381;&#12398;&#12418;&#12398;&#12364;&#24517;&#12378;&#12375;&#12418;&#36949;&#12358;&#12431;&#12369;&#12391;&#12399;&#12394;&#12356;&#12424;&#12358;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;&#31169;&#12383;&#12385;&#12418;&#21193;&#24375;&#20013;&#12391;&#12377;&#12398;&#12391;&#12289;&#12362;&#20114;&#12356;&#12289;&#12362;&#24441;&#12395;&#31435;&#12390;&#21512;&#12360;&#12383;&#12425;&#12356;&#12356;&#12391;&#12377;&#12397;




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## tk59 (Jul 10, 2012)

ajhuff said:


> Just rereading this discussion. I am still not clear on whether the Suisin INOX honyaki is forged or not?
> 
> -AJ


I'm not sure what you mean by forged but if you are talking about shaping then it is cut and ground out of a sheet of 19c27.


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## Gator (Jul 10, 2012)

Like someone pounding on red hot steel bar with a hammer for hours


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## ajhuff (Jul 10, 2012)

Gator said:


> Like someone pounding on red hot steel bar with a hammer for hours



Yes, that is what forging would mean.

-AJ


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## Crothcipt (Jul 10, 2012)

Aj you are meaning hand forge. When you make a sheet of metal you are forging it too.


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## ajhuff (Jul 10, 2012)

Crothcipt said:


> Aj you are meaning hand forge. When you make a sheet of metal you are forging it too.



Look I get you guys are calling rolling a forging process, as it is. However the material properties of rolled steel and drop forged steel are not the same. In this instance we are arguing semantics. I am sure everyone knows if the question is asked if a knife is forged what is meant by that.

-AJ


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## JohnnyChance (Jul 10, 2012)

ajhuff said:


> Look I get you guys are calling rolling a forging process, as it is. However the material properties of rolled steel and drop forged steel are not the same. In this instance we are arguing semantics. I am sure everyone knows if the question is asked if a knife is forged what is meant by that.
> 
> -AJ



Ah, but you see my friend, the same exact reason everyone is asking you to clarify is the same exact reason you are asking in the first place. Suisin is using a very vague definition of honyaki to label/market their knives as such: they are forged in a manner and mono steel. If we all just assumed honyaki means forged, and hand forged, then we wouldn't question the branding on the knife and blindly assume it is hand forged. If it were most other knives and you asked if it was forged, people would assume you were talking about hand forging and give you a straight answer. Since these are purposefully vague, they did not.


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## ajhuff (Jul 10, 2012)

I would not say at all "they are forged in a manner" if they are cut from strip steel. And again, I don't think anyone else would confuse the issue if we are talking about knives.

As I said before, rolling is considered a forging process. That does not mean that anything cut from rolled steel be it a knife or a door is considered forged.

-AJ


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## Crothcipt (Jul 10, 2012)

cutting from a sheet is considered cold forged.


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## ajhuff (Jul 10, 2012)

Crothcipt said:


> cutting from a sheet is considered cold forged.



No, it's not. Cutting is not a forging process. I'm not sure why there is argument on this. Forging is shaping of a metal by mechanical deformation. Which differentiates it from casting, cutting, welding etc.

What I wanted to know was if the Suisin INOX honyaki is forged. It didn't matter to me if it was hand forged by a person with a hammer or in a machine like a Henckels. I just wanted to know if it was beaten into shape. The general consensus so far is that it is not, it is cut from a sheet of steel, ergo not forged.

-AJ


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## schanop (Jul 10, 2012)

Suisin Inox Honyak has two lines. Inox honyaki western style blades, i.e. gyuto, petty, suji, probably are cut from a sheet.

Still no idea how the traditional blade shape ones are done. Ginsanko one is forged into shape, I think.


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## Eamon Burke (Jul 11, 2012)

Yeah, I wonder too. Like, is the IH deba forged to shape?


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## Customfan (Jul 11, 2012)

I always wondered about Suisin and Nenox honyaki knives... Its good that you are shedding light....


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## Gator (Jul 11, 2012)

Crothcipt said:


> Aj you are meaning hand forge. When you make a sheet of metal you are forging it too.


Well, the truth is, most of us are willing to put down extra hard earned cash for the "true forged" knives. Not necessarily by hand, many makers use automated hammers for that, which is fine too. Point is, there is a difference when maker individually forges a knife and other types of forging, of which I have very little understanding to be honest 
I record on DVR all educational shows on knife subject(how it's made, how do they do it, modern marvels, etc), lots of junk info, but on occasion you see interesting bits. E.g. making Henckels kitchen knives. Steel bar is cut to particular shape, then heated in the middle, compressed form the ends, to form a bulge in the heated section, and after that single robotic hammer blow forms that super bolster we all "love. That's it. The knife is finished (edge is ground on 120 grit belt) and goes on sale as forged...
I don't think forging in itself will make metal better or increase its properties significantly etc... Stock removal and other modern techniques work just fine. Having used both forged and stamped global I couldn't tell any difference in performance, except the forged piece was considerably heavier 
It's pretty much back to mass made vs. individually made products. Honyaki implies that, well at least to me and many others here it does.


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## JohnnyChance (Jul 11, 2012)

ajhuff said:


> I would not say at all "they are forged in a manner" if they are cut from strip steel. And again, I don't think anyone else would confuse the issue if we are talking about knives.
> 
> As I said before, rolling is considered a forging process. That does not mean that anything cut from rolled steel be it a knife or a door is considered forged.
> 
> -AJ



I didn't say I agreed with them. All I said is they were using a lose definition of the term to brand it as such for marketing purposes. The sheet is rolled/forged, then the profile is cut out or the stock is cut and then forged by hammer or machine, do the major difference (to us) in these two processes matter to a marketing department? Apparently not.

What is the issue with people clarifying your question? They are merely trying to provide the best answer they can. You can't expect everyone to know that you know the difference between the two.


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## knyfeknerd (Jul 11, 2012)

I happen to own a Suisin Inox Honyaki 210 kamagata usuba. If it is just cut from a sheet of steel I'll be a [email protected]$%)(## monkey's uncle. This is an awesome knife with outstanding F&F, Kirenaga,etc. If this is just a cut blade, why don't more makers do it this way? Wouldn't it be easier and more cost-effective? 
Suisin Inox Honyaki owners stand up and testify!!!


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## ajhuff (Jul 11, 2012)

JohnnyChance said:


> The sheet is rolled/forged, then the profile is cut out or the stock is cut and then forged by hammer or machine,



This is all I am asking, is it hammered i.e. forged or not? So far I have gotten both answers, yes it is and no it is cut from sheet.

-AJ


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## bieniek (Jul 11, 2012)

knyfeknerd said:


> If this is just a cut blade, why don't more makers do it this way? Wouldn't it be easier and more cost-effective?



Looking at the Suisins prices, I would say its not the most cost effective!


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## schanop (Jul 11, 2012)

Bat Man PING PING ... ping ping ...


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## Gator (Jul 11, 2012)

bieniek said:


> Looking at the Suisins prices, I would say its not the most cost effective!


Hmm, I wonder what do they do with them Nenox Honyakis to price at 500$+ ... And still perform worse than 150$ Henckels miyabi.
My point is, final price is determined by a lot of factors, and production effectiveness is not as important (often) as marketing effectiveness.


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## Crothcipt (Jul 11, 2012)

I think marketing has become the most important word in business, were it use to be location.


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## knyfeknerd (Jul 11, 2012)

(IMHO) Mine is a good knife, well worth the $$$ I spent. I really don't give 2 $h1ttz if some guy banged on it with a hammer or not. That does not make it of more or less value(to me). Can anyone tell me about a sharper stainless single bevel?
FYI, marketing had absoltutely nothing to do with my purchase.


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## la2tokyo (Jul 11, 2012)

I bet it's only a matter of time before some American company comes out with a $50 honyaki, to go along with our "Kobe Beef" and California "Champagne."


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## chinacats (Jul 11, 2012)

la2tokyo said:


> I bet it's only a matter of time before some American company comes out with a $50 honyaki, to go along with our "Kobe Beef" and California "Champagne."



I bet I can guess which one it will be...:running:


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## Gator (Jul 11, 2012)

knyfeknerd said:


> (IMHO) Mine is a good knife, well worth the $$$ I spent.


I don't question that, and as long as you are happy with it, that's all that matters 



knyfeknerd said:


> I really don't give 2 $h1ttz if some guy banged on it with a hammer or not. That does not make it of more or less value(to me).


Yes, but there are lots of other folks for whom it makes difference, for many reasons. Knife marketing is well aware of that. There is no other reason to start calling things Honyaki, it was not traditionally used to denote "high quality" stuff either. IMHO, purely marketing move. 

[/QUOTE]Can anyone tell me about a sharper stainless single bevel? FYI, marketing had absoltutely nothing to do with my purchase.[/QUOTE]
I don't have experience with Susin honyaki, and my stainless pieces are limited to one ZDP-189 gyuto and couple Tojiros from early days, although I am not sure why identical knife made from ZDP-189, SRS-15, D2 or other comparable stainless(with Susin INOX) alloy would be less sharp than Susin INOX.
As for the marketing thingy, so, how did you end up with Susin? Did you actually evaluate it before buying?


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## Namaxy (Jul 11, 2012)

knyfeknerd said:


> (IMHO) Mine is a good knife, well worth the $$$ I spent. I really don't give 2 $h1ttz if some guy banged on it with a hammer or not. That does not make it of more or less value(to me). Can anyone tell me about a sharper stainless single bevel?
> FYI, marketing had absoltutely nothing to do with my purchase.



So....this thread has derailed a bit from when I originally asked the question a month ago. No worries...there is a lot of great debate here. Rather than debate whether a specific maker stretches the intended definition of the word, I was trying to understand if Honyaki knives were revered in a particular way, and if such reverence was based on performance or simply love/respect for the craft that produced them. Ultimately, I sought to understand what a trained sushi chef might hold in highest regard. I have a dear friend who partnered with a chef to open a restaurant - they are approaching their second anniversary and my family would love to give the chef a special gift. Having said that I don't want to do something stupid. I'd link the restaurant and/or the chef's profile but I suspect that might not be OK per forums rules.


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## EdipisReks (Jul 11, 2012)

kcma, on foodie forums, has more than once said that he gets a sharper edge on honyaki yanagis than he does on clad knives. i've only used one honyaki knife (a Monzaburo gyuto i was lucky enough to borrow), and i did get a sharp edge on it, but no sharper than my Shig or Takedas or whatever.


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## Sushi Ninja (Jul 11, 2012)




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## heldentenor (Jul 11, 2012)

Moderators will obviously have the final say, but I think it's legit to link to restaurants et al. The guy's not running a knife business out of the delivery entrance in the back, is he?


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## Crothcipt (Jul 11, 2012)

people link food and restaurants here all the time.


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## EdipisReks (Jul 11, 2012)

what are we talking about, now?


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## knyfeknerd (Jul 12, 2012)

I'm sorry I got a little grumpy. I'm just trying to stand up for a steel that I believe in.
We still have no confirmation on the forging process to either back or dismiss Suisin's Honyaki name. The only other line of knives that are 19C27 that I know of are the R1chm0nd Ultimatum, and I have not read up or heard any product reviews -yet. And we all know -fo sho-that this is not a hand(or human) forged blade. 
Thanks Gator for being 100% subjective when I was defensive. I am a fan of your site, your work and all your contributions. To answer the "why did I buy" my Suisin IH......well, I was going to go Gesshin Hide Blue #2, but Jon sold out the day I was ordering. In retrospect, I am happy with it especially for it's stainless properties. I have a couple sushi chef friends who also have the same usuba and love it. The lady from the health dept. is keen on them as well. So marketing (true or otherwise) played little factor in my purchase.


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## Gator (Jul 12, 2012)

NP, I was also defending knives/hard work, never meant to put down your favorite pieces  
Marketing can be, or to be precise is transitory too...


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## JohnnyChance (Jul 12, 2012)

Namaxy said:


> I'd link the restaurant and/or the chef's profile but I suspect that might not be OK per forums rules.



That's okay.


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## NO ChoP! (Aug 9, 2012)

AEB-L isn't that unusual; sakai yusuke, takayuki grand chef, DT ITK to name a few....

The recent price hike has put these Suisin into an unrealistic price range for me....


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## evanjohnson (Aug 12, 2012)

NO ChoP! said:


> ...The recent price hike has put these Suisin into an unrealistic price range for me....



Sadly, it's really not really a price hike- it's just another example of the US dollar's reduced purchasing power in a global market. (I know the end result is still the same when your pay is denominated in dollars.)


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## WillC (Aug 12, 2012)

I think it unlikely that a blade entirely forged to shape, has not been trimmed back at all. Trimming presses seem a popular way to trim back the tang to the correct fit. For me I would only forge to shape entirely when I am working from a larger chunk of material. If working thin sheet, it is just not practical to entirely forge the blade, so I would partially cut it out, and forge the taper in.


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