# A knife knumpty gets his hands on a Kippington



## juice (Sep 4, 2020)

Yes, I am a komplete knife knumpty, as most of you are well aware.

My knife of choice for the past six years or so has been a Shun 200mm Elite Gyuto SG2-clad VG10 (I presume) so it's not a terrible knife, but not flash, either. I struggled to afford it when I bought it (on a decent special, and it was the best knife I could afford at the time), and so haven't been able to replace it with anything better since. (Did you know the job market is screwed for journalists/photographers/people with ADHD and depression and various anxieties and neck injuries and chronic headaches? Well, hard as it is to believe, now you know 

Anyway, now we've set the historical scene, let us move on. A couple of weeks ago, a very generous member of the forum here in Australia (@benhendy) sent me a DM and asked if I'd like to borrow his correct-handed @Kippington . Yep, really. I was somewhat overwhelmed by the offer, and kinda terrified of accepting (I tend to catastrophise everything, and the offer of a knife of this calibre makes that super easy to do), but Ben talked me off the ledge and sent it down here. Arrived yesterday, despite our COVID-related delays in the post.

You can see it HERE

It's quite a bit bigger and heavier than the Shun that has been my main knife for six years (41cm v 33cm, 289g v 209g, 57mm v 45mm heel height, both balance at the heel), and when I first got it out of the box I was pretty intimidated by it, TBH.

It's gorgeous. I love the handle with the dual spacers and the dark teatree wood, and the mirror finish and the grind are sophistication personified. Its beauty is in its lack of ornamentation - it's not pretty (looking at you, Damascus), rather it's beautiful. It's Sophia Loren/Audrey Hepburn, where the beauty lasts well into the senior years as opposed to the latest pretty Hollywood bimbo who will be off the scene before they're 40 despite all the plastic surgery. It's just classy (possibly unlike my previous analogy).

I did some prep for my wife this morning which was mostly dicing up some onions for some savoury mince for us to put in the freezer. I'm getting better at onions, but I'm still not great (with anything, really, I can't concentrate hard/long enough to learn properly, bloody ADHD), so I figured this beast of a knife was going to be pretty hard to use, but I couldn't have been more wrong.

Despite the increased size, I was immediately more accurate with it in all the cuts, and my wife, who had said she wanted a "fine dice" immediately directed that the second onion be cut into far larger pieces. It really was that easy - from the first onion, I was already cutting better when I had completely expected to make a mess of it. But despite the extra size and weight it was just easier to use than the Shun, and MUCH easier to use a pinch grip with, which obviously helps with the size. I still think I will be better off in the long run with a smaller knife, but I'm far less convinced of that now than I was 12 hours ago after using this one for a bit.

OK, I'd better post this now or I won't get it out tonight, but I'll be using for more stuff in the coming days and I'll report on how it works for a knumpty in those situations as well.

TL;DR - even a relatively unskilled knife user is immediately improved when using a super-knife like this.


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## Moooza (Sep 4, 2020)

I hope correct-handed is left handed.


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## juice (Sep 4, 2020)

Moooza said:


> I hope correct-handed is left handed.


Correct!


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 4, 2020)

Looks great!


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## juice (Sep 7, 2020)

OK, update from yesterday:

more onions, half a cabbage, and a zucchini.

I made my wrong-handed wife use it to chop the zucchini, just to see how correct-handed it was. "Very nice, very sharp. But you're still not allowed to buy it." (She's a cautious woman (despite being married to me), given I've explained to her it's on loan, not on trial. I think she thinks I'm introducing it to the house under the cover of a loan.)

I'm still amazed at how well I can cut onions with it.

And the cabbage, well - my wife asked for a fine shred and it delivered in spades. Ridiculously impressive.

And we're getting some patina, which surprised me somewhat as I've been PARANOID about wiping it down straight after using it. It doesn't look bad, of course, I'm just surprised at how quickly it showed up. (Remember, I'm a numpty.)

TL;DR - still loving it.


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## mc2442 (Sep 7, 2020)

I highly recommend Kip's knives to all. And the correct handed knives.....damn lefty's


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## wombat (Sep 8, 2020)

Great looking knife! Nice review too  (can't see a like button, presumably I have limited privileges in this forum)


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## juice (Sep 8, 2020)

OK, so this is what it looks like to me.


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## juice (Sep 8, 2020)

OK, our eating has been somewhat disrupted by my wife's work, so we've only eaten dinner for the last couple of days (low-carb FTW, again, makes that not too difficult) so I've been desperately trying to drum up knife work. Today was just an onion and some mushrooms, but it did remind of the only negative I've come across so far with this beauty - the heel.

It's SHARP, and it has ripped up a couple of microfibre cloths I've been using to wipe it down. My Shun has just the SLIGHTEST rounding on the heel, a TINY radius, and in six years I've never had this issue.

So there we go, it's not PERFECT


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## Moooza (Sep 8, 2020)

Time to make a big veggie soup I reckon.


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## juice (Sep 8, 2020)

Moooza said:


> Time to make a big veggie soup I reckon.


I like the way you're thinking


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## Villanelle (Sep 8, 2020)

Must be a post count thing I don’t have a ‘Like’ button for this forum either. So I’ll have to write out my like of this Kip review.



juice said:


> It's Sophia Loren/Audrey Hepburn, where the beauty lasts well into the senior years as opposed to the latest pretty Hollywood bimbo who will be off the scene before they're 40 despite all the plastic surgery. It's just classy (possibly unlike my previous analogy).


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## crocca86 (Sep 8, 2020)

+1 for the correct hand


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## ModRQC (Sep 8, 2020)

Congrats! 

You cannot really fight off the patina onset, only minimize it like you did.


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## ModRQC (Sep 8, 2020)

Oh and -1 on the incorrect hand


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## Jville (Sep 8, 2020)

SG2 Clad means SG2 is the core steel with stainless cladding, there shouldn't be any VG10 in your SHUN.


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## juice (Sep 8, 2020)

Jville said:


> SG2 Clad means SG2 is the core steel with stainless cladding, there shouldn't be any VG10 in your SHUN.


Ah, OK, sweet. I just thought all of them were, and it was just labelled strangely.


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## juice (Sep 10, 2020)

I think she's taking the piss just a little, my wife...


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## Jville (Sep 10, 2020)

There you go. You got her to take the bait. Now you just need to carefully reel her in.


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## Moooza (Sep 11, 2020)

I think it's time to plant the seed for a nakiri now. Maybe there's something that it just can't do so well?....


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## juice (Sep 11, 2020)

But then @nakiriknaifuwaifu will get upset at me for driving the prices up. Not that they want another one, no sir.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Sep 11, 2020)

Nah mate jump in and get one - though I do suggest you pick up a solid chef's knife for yourself first!


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## M1k3 (Sep 11, 2020)

juice said:


> But then @nakiriknaifuwaifu will get upset at me for driving the prices up. Not that they want another one, no sir.


Go ahead and get one. Pick up some kind of powered device to remove metal. You might not fancy Nakiri's, but, totally dig Gyuto's. Might want to scrub the kanji off though. I hear some countries are strict about that kind of stuff.


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## msk (Sep 11, 2020)

Thanks for the review! What a treat to jump straight into trying out a knife like this.


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## juice (Sep 11, 2020)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Nah mate jump in and get one - though I do suggest you pick up a solid chef's knife for yourself first!


I've technically got a couple 






They appear to be pretty terrible, and I've never used them due to them not really being usable, but still... #NakiriPower!

That top one has a kinda #Beige handle, too...


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## juice (Sep 11, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Go ahead and get one. Pick up some kind of powered device to remove metal. You might not fancy Nakiri's, but, totally dig Gyuto's. Might want to scrub the kanji off though. I hear some countries are strict about that kind of stuff.


Look, we're a land of criminals. @ma_sha1 would be right at home down here. We can do anything!



msk said:


> Thanks for the review! What a treat to jump straight into trying out a knife like this.


I think you're being a bit generous with "review," but yes, very generous of Ben to lend it to me, for sure. I do love it a lot, although I still wonder if a 240 is more knife than I need...


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## msk (Sep 11, 2020)

juice said:


> I think you're being a bit generous with "review," but yes, very generous of Ben to lend it to me, for sure. I do love it a lot, although I still wonder if a 240 is more knife than I need...


Nonsense! Just prep a big soup, and cut all the carrots at the same time. Then you'll be thinking, "man, maybe I need a 270."


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## M1k3 (Sep 11, 2020)

juice said:


> I've technically got a couple View attachment 94144
> View attachment 94145
> 
> They appear to be pretty terrible, and I've never used them due to them not really being usable, but still... #NakiriPower!
> ...


@Carl Kotte


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## juice (Sep 11, 2020)

I had best put this here as well as the food thread - I got to chiffonade some lettuce, as well. #Magic

As you can see, my knife skills are currently being sued by the word "skills" for misrepresentation.


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## juice (Sep 20, 2020)

OK, so this has been an extended play with the magic knife (as it was named by my wife, only partially ironically), and @benhendy's generosity has allowed me to learn a couple of things.

1) I still think 240 is too much knife for me. Even a gorgeous, easy-to-hold, beautifully-balanced knife like this one.

2) I don't need a knife this good. It's a mismatch in terms of quality and skill - even a run-of-the-mill Mazaki would be plenty for me  I also don't use it enough - we generally eat two meals a day, one of which is a standard breakfast, so it just doesn't get used enough. I've been scrambling for opportunities to make the most of it while I have it.

2a) which is not to say that I don't WANT a knife this good, but realistically, it's wasted on me.

All up, a really fun time with it, and a great learning experience, but I think it's time to send it back before I get too attached to it, 240 or not


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## M1k3 (Sep 20, 2020)

juice said:


> OK, so this has been an extended play with the magic knife (as it was named by my wife, only partially ironically), and @benhendy's generosity has allowed me to learn a couple of things.
> 
> 1) I still think 240 is too much knife for me. Even a gorgeous, easy-to-hold, beautifully-balanced knife like this one.
> 
> ...


So... 210-225mm is what you're looking for?


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## juice (Sep 20, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> So... 210-225mm is what you're looking for?


I'd like to try a 210-215, I think. My Shun is a 200, but it's kinda weird shape, so I'm not sure what to make of it, but I do quite like the size of it. And something a bit smaller as well would be good (yes, I need a good petty).


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## Nemo (Sep 20, 2020)

juice said:


> I still think 240 is too much knife for me. Even a gorgeous, easy-to-hold, beautifully-balanced knife like this one.


Which grip do you use? If you use a proper pinch grip, with the middle finger's distal knuckle resting across the choil, you effectively shorten the knife by up to 50mm (in comparison to a hammer grip) whislt gaining much more control over the knife.


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## juice (Sep 20, 2020)

Nemo said:


> Which grip do you use? If you use a proper pinch grip, with the middle finger's distal knuckle resting across the choil, you effectively shorten the knife by up to 50mm (in comparison to a hammer grip) whislt gaining much more control over the knife.


Yeah, that's what I use about 60 per cent (?) of the time, maybe 70ish. I do like it the most, but I find myself reverting to hammer grip maybe 10 per cent of the time (decades of conditioning will do that too you, kids), and sometimes, depending on what I'm cutting, I find I'll have my index finger up on the spine.

Even with the pinch grip I find it feels like a bit much. OTOH, maybe I'm still just not used to it.

I would like to try a knife with a good finger rest, see how that goes.

I just need to buy a variety of decent quality knives and see which ones I gravitate to when they're all available on the mag strip.


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## dafox (Sep 20, 2020)

juice said:


> Yeah, that's what I use about 60 per cent (?) of the time, maybe 70ish. I do like it the most, but I find myself reverting to hammer grip maybe 10 per cent of the time (decades of conditioning will do that too you, kids), and sometimes, depending on what I'm cutting, I find I'll have my index finger up on the spine.
> 
> Even with the pinch grip I find it feels like a bit much. OTOH, maybe I'm still just not used to it.
> 
> ...


"I just need to buy a variety of decent quality knives and see which ones I gravitate to when they're all available on the mag strip."


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 20, 2020)

juice said:


> Yeah, that's what I use about 60 per cent (?) of the time, maybe 70ish. I do like it the most, but I find myself reverting to hammer grip maybe 10 per cent of the time (decades of conditioning will do that too you, kids), and sometimes, depending on what I'm cutting, I find I'll have my index finger up on the spine.
> 
> Even with the pinch grip I find it feels like a bit much. OTOH, maybe I'm still just not used to it.
> 
> ...



I am naturally a hammer gripper as well, but I find myself unknowingly switch grips on wa handle knives. On 180, always hammer grip, on 210, neck grip & on 220 & up, pinch grip. It just transitions on its own without me knowing, like trying to reach the balance point.

For pinch grip, the thicker the spine the better, at one point I even made a pinch finger rest, a piece of plastic clamped on top of the spine for comfort. I am surprised no one sells something like that.


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## juice (Sep 20, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> I am naturally a hammer gripper as well, but I find myself unknowingly switch grips on wa handle knives. On 180, always hammer grip, on 210, neck grip & on 220 & up, pinch grip. It just transitions on its own without me knowing, like trying to reach the balance point.


Interesting.



ma_sha1 said:


> For pinch grip, the thicker the spine the better, at one point I even made a pinch finger rest, a piece of plastic clamped on top of the spine for comfort. I am surprised no one sells something like that.


Got a photo of said item?



dafox said:


> "I just need to buy a variety of decent quality knives and see which ones I gravitate to when they're all available on the mag strip."


It's a better method than asking hundreds of questions and then never commenting on them, right?


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 20, 2020)

juice said:


> Got a photo of said item?



No, it kept falling off, I don’t have it anymore but the concept is simple, just thicken the spine with a clip-on, someone should make some to sell to the pinch grippers, the pros get callus from the spine.


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## Nagakin (Sep 20, 2020)

juice said:


> 2) I don't need a knife this good. It's a mismatch in terms of quality and skill - even a run-of-the-mill Mazaki would be plenty for me  I also don't use it enough - we generally eat two meals a day, one of which is a standard breakfast, so it just doesn't get used enough. I've been scrambling for opportunities to make the most of it while I have it.


That's most people here, doesn't stop anyone from enjoying some luxury 

Hashbrowns errrday yo. I had to make the switch to sweet potato lately tho.


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## juice (Sep 20, 2020)

Nagakin said:


> That's most people here, doesn't stop anyone from enjoying some luxury


Oh, for sure, but I am such a numpty I need to work out what I want, first.



Nagakin said:


> Hashbrowns errrday yo. I had to make the switch to sweet potato lately tho.


Sweet potato is by so far my favourite vegetable it's ridiculous.


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## Nagakin (Sep 20, 2020)

juice said:


> Sweet potato is by so far my favourite vegetable it's ridiculous.


Sweet potato hash with whatever drippings you saved from the night before


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## Kippington (Sep 20, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> I am naturally a hammer gripper as well, but I find myself unknowingly switch grips on wa handle knives. On 180, always hammer grip, on 210, neck grip & on 220 & up, pinch grip. It just transitions on its own without me knowing, like trying to reach the balance point.
> 
> For pinch grip, the thicker the spine the better, at one point I even made a pinch finger rest, a piece of plastic clamped on top of the spine for comfort. I am surprised no one sells something like that.


There are _soooooo_ many hammer grippers on this forum, I'm thinking it must be the default for home users. There are enough that I'm actually considering changing some of my handle designs for hammer grips... so far all my choils/ handles have been made specifically for the pinch.

As @Nemo mentioned, the knife feels longer and taller than it really is when you hammer grip. You lose a bit of control over the knife when you hold it that way.

I'm thinking I can make something aimed specifically for the home users: *225mm length* with hammer grip handle....


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## Nagakin (Sep 20, 2020)

Kippington said:


> There are _soooooo_ many hammer grippers on this forum, I'm thinking it must be the default for home users. There are enough that I'm actually considering changing some of my handle designs for hammer grips... so far all my choils/ handles have been made specifically for the pinch.
> 
> As @Nemo mentioned, the knife feels longer and taller than it really is when you hammer grip. You lose a bit of control over the knife when you hold it that way.
> 
> I'm thinking I can make something aimed specifically for the home users: *225mm length* with hammer grip handle....


I feel like it's because most aren't using as much natural leverage and it's easier to apply downward force in a hammer grip. Been thinking about the other discussion involving push cutting and after watching some videos in the carrot wedge thread, a lot of push cuts here almost look like reverse slices to me (if that makes sense), which would of course get stuck and require more muscle.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 20, 2020)

Kippington said:


> There are _soooooo_ many hammer grippers on this forum, I'm thinking it must be the default for home users. There are enough that I'm actually considering changing some of my handle designs for hammer grips... so far all my choils/ handles have been made specifically for the pinch.
> 
> As @Nemo mentioned, the knife feels longer and taller than it really is when you hammer grip. You lose a bit of control over the knife when you hold it that way.
> 
> I'm thinking I can make something aimed specifically for the home users: *225mm length* with hammer grip handle....




Maybe because many people came from handle heavy German knives? Where grip is completed on the handle. 

You are gripping by the neck, it’s what I call neck grip, it’s my default grip style for 210. When I re-handle, I make the balance point just ahead of heel, not as far as Toyama 210 default balance point which is ahead of pinch grip, but 210 feels a bit small when pinch gripping.

When I hold 180 or western handle knife up to 210, I do hammer grip, my hand is completely on the handle, not extended to the neck.


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## Kippington (Sep 20, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> You are gripping by the neck, it’s what I call neck grip...


Are you talking about the video? That's not me, that's Mack. It was an example of how I see most KKF'ers holding their gyutos.
I'd call that a hammer grip. I personally use a pinch grip.


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## ian (Sep 20, 2020)

Kippington said:


> There are _soooooo_ many hammer grippers on this forum, I'm thinking it must be the default for home users. There are enough that I'm actually considering changing some of my handle designs for hammer grips... so far all my choils/ handles have been made specifically for the pinch.
> 
> As @Nemo mentioned, the knife feels longer and taller than it really is when you hammer grip. You lose a bit of control over the knife when you hold it that way.
> 
> I'm thinking I can make something aimed specifically for the home users: *225mm length* with hammer grip handle....




How would you change the handle/neck design? Shorter neck?


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## Kippington (Sep 20, 2020)

ian said:


> How would you change the handle/neck design? Shorter neck?


I havent looked too much into it yet, but yeah maybe a shorter neck.
Also if you hold it in a hammer-grip, the wa handle needs a better spot to have your thumb. I would probably implement the Tsourkan style thumb depression in the ferrule part of the handle, which I don't do at the moment because it does pretty much nothing in a pinch-grip. I actually use the step on the other side of the handle from the thumb to rest my middle finger, so I've never liked that slope in... but hammer grippers would probably prefer it.


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## dafox (Sep 20, 2020)

Kippington said:


> Are you talking about the video? That's not me, that's Mack. It was an example of how I see most KKF'ers holding their gyutos.
> I'd call that a hammer grip. I personally use a pinch grip.


What do you call this grip?


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## Kippington (Sep 20, 2020)

dafox said:


> What do you call this grip?



Hammer grip. I say this as a blacksmith that holds a hammer like that.


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## Luftmensch (Sep 20, 2020)

Kippington said:


> Hammer grip. I say this as a blacksmith that holds a hammer like that.



Looks like a hybrid.... Like a fist heavy pinch grip??


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## ian (Sep 20, 2020)

Yea, maybe there should be a separate name for that sort of choked up hammer grip with one finger above the ferrule.

Half pinch?
Choke grip?
Throttle grip?


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## Kippington (Sep 20, 2020)

@dafox @Luftmensch
You need fingertip control with a hammer too. There's a bit of finessing to good hammer work, it's not as inaccurate of a tool as many people think.


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## Kippington (Sep 20, 2020)

ian said:


> Yea, maybe there should be a separate name for that sort of choked up hammer grip with one finger above the ferrule.
> 
> Half pinch?
> Choke grip?
> Throttle grip?


Forward and aft hammer grip 
Then there's the tight death grip, which I figure some people here would also call the hammer grip


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## IsoJ (Sep 20, 2020)

Tight death grip sounds cool . I assume there is a lot of elbow swinging involved.


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## Luftmensch (Sep 20, 2020)

Since we have meandered into finer points of knife design...

How accurate do you think the poll (225mm length) is? I don't doubt people voted honestly. I just don't think people would have controlled for other correlated factors like grind, profile and weight. 

My cutting board and space is big enough that a 30mm difference (let alone 15mm) seems fairly immaterial. It is other factors that make me choose one knife over another. But maybe the poll 'averages' over all of that! Perhaps the 225mm length forces some Goldilocks balance between all parameters?


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## Kippington (Sep 20, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Since we have meandered into finer points of knife design...
> 
> How accurate do you think the poll (225mm length) is? I don't doubt people voted honestly. I just don't think people would have controlled for other correlated factors like grind, profile and weight.
> 
> My cutting board and space is big enough that a 30mm difference (let alone 15mm) seems fairly immaterial. It is other factors that make me choose one knife over another. But maybe the poll 'averages' over all of that! Perhaps the 225mm length forces some Goldilocks balance between all parameters?


My guess is the poll was quite accurate. There seems to be mostly home users here, where 225 mm really feels nice, and it makes more sense when you consider how many hammer-grippers there are around. The 225 length feels longer than it does in a pinch - a 240 and above would feel overly long.


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## dafox (Sep 20, 2020)

Kippington said:


> Hammer grip. I say this as a blacksmith that holds a hammer like that.


And it's not a death grip, in the video it looks quite firm but in use the thumb and first finger are pinching the knife and the knife pivots ar that point with a bit of blade forward balance and the rest of the fingers are held pretty lightly. With a guillotine and glide the Palm isn't even touching the handle, there is a good 3cm gap in there, mostly just the pivot point with the thumb and first finger, the other fingers a lightly touching for control.


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## Luftmensch (Sep 20, 2020)

Kippington said:


> My guess is the poll was quite accurate.



Hehe... In case I wasnt clear! I believe it was accurate and honest! I just wondered if it truly reflected length or other correlated factors.



Kippington said:


> 225 mm really feels nice, and it makes more sense when you consider how many hammer-grippers there are around. The 225 length feels longer than it does in a pinch - a 240 and above would feel overly long.



Conversely... maybe it means 210mm is the one _true_ length to rule them all (one length to cut them all, and in the darkness bind them). And the 225mm is so popular because that extra 15mm is lost due to a prevalence of pinch grip


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## Kippington (Sep 20, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> ...other correlated factors...


Yeah they play a small roll, but it's mostly the profile, not the grind and weight.


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## dafox (Sep 21, 2020)

For this home user hammer grip 225 gyuto you might consider making it in stainless or stainless clad carbon


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## Luftmensch (Sep 21, 2020)

Kippington said:


> mostly the profile



Agreed:

blacksmith > profile > grind > length > whats on tv tonight > steel

... and for me... as a pinch-grip home cook with only ~1hour of knife use a day, i am ambivalent about lengths between 200 and 250. And am even fine with a 180 santoku! (oh the horror  )


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## Dhoff (Sep 21, 2020)

Guess I'm using the hybrid too  hammer pinch


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## juice (Sep 21, 2020)

Hands up everyone who is surprised that a thread I started has gone off on a wild tangent


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## M1k3 (Sep 21, 2020)

juice said:


> Hands up everyone who is suprised that a thread I started has gone off on a wild tangent



Hands up everyone who is surprised a thread on KKF has gone off on a wild tangent.


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## ian (Sep 21, 2020)

juice said:


> Hands up everyone who is surprised that a thread I started has gone off on a wild tangent




What’s off topic about this? It seems we got our hands on a Kippington above.


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## Kippington (Sep 22, 2020)

dafox said:


> What do you call this grip?



I think the term _"hammer grip"_ tends to get a bad rep, mostly due to people not knowing how to use a hammer. I imagine most people consider it the same as a white knuckle _"death grip"_.
If I had a hammer the same weight as your gyuto, I would probably want to hold it the same way you did in the clip.

Watch a few seconds into each of these videos from guys that know how to use a hammer. I've already skipped to the relevant parts.


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## Luftmensch (Sep 22, 2020)

Kippington said:


> I imagine most people consider it the same as a white knuckle _"death grip"_.



A bit like swinging a mattock. The head is heavy. You dont get too much of a bounce back either. You have to lift the tool all the way back up! And sometimes pull it _out_ of the soil. If you're planning on using it for any length of time on a hot day, it would be a waste of energy (and less controlled) to do much more than let gravity do the work on the way down! Like Uri says - guide it down. White knuckling the handle on impact can send significant, fatiguing shocks back up your wrists and arms. Better to be barely holding onto it or even 'griping' the air around the handle on impact. That way the handle can absorb shock without transferring it back into your body.


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## dafox (Sep 22, 2020)

Kippington said:


> I think the term _"hammer grip"_ tends to get a bad rep, mostly due to people not knowing how to use a hammer. I imagine most people consider it the same as a white knuckle _"death grip"_.
> If I had a hammer the same weight as your gyuto, I would probably want to hold it the same way you did in the clip.
> 
> Watch a few seconds into each of these videos from guys that know how to use a hammer. I've already skipped to the relevant parts.



Thanks Kippington!


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## OnionSlicer (Sep 29, 2020)

To me, pinch grip means the blade is being pinched between the thumb and the index finger, regardless of whether the pinching is around the neck or the engraving. Saltydog is no home cook, and he pinches around the neck in his videos and has said that he considers that to still be pinch grip. When I think of hammer grip, I think of thumb wrapping around the handle.

I like handles that are comfy in both pinch positions. Forward pinch for more control, neck pinch for more blade and for chopping (since the flat spot is commonly at the heel).


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 29, 2020)

That’s why I called it neck grip earlier, ends the debate between the hammer camp & the pinch clan. It’s a neck grip if anyone is grabbing by the neck.


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## M1k3 (Sep 29, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> It’s a neck grip if anyone is grabbing by the neck.


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## Kippington (Sep 29, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> That’s why I called it neck grip earlier, ends the debate between the hammer camp & the pinch clan. It’s a neck grip if anyone is grabbing by the neck.





OnionSlicer said:


> To me, pinch grip means the blade is being pinched between the thumb and the index finger, regardless of whether the pinching is around the neck or the engraving. Saltydog is no home cook, and he pinches around the neck in his videos and has said that he considers that to still be pinch grip. *When I think of hammer grip, I think of thumb wrapping around the handle*.
> 
> I like handles that are comfy in both pinch positions. Forward pinch for more control, neck pinch for more blade and for chopping (since the flat spot is commonly at the heel).


The problem with this is there are now three different pinch grips - forward, neck and full handle - as well as a hammer grip which is the incorrect way to hold a hammer.


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## cotedupy (Sep 29, 2020)

My better half (who has very good knife skills and has worked in kitchens) uses what looks a bit like a 'hammer' grip, but is actually, as mentioned above, pinching but around the ferrule/bolster. It works well for her because she uses almost exclusively rocking cuts. Tho that does blunt stuff a lot more quickly.

A q. perhaps for @Kippington - is there anything different I should be doing when sharpening the knives she uses, compared to how I might normally sharpen...?


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## Kippington (Sep 29, 2020)

cotedupy said:


> A q. perhaps for @Kippington - is there anything different I should be doing when sharpening the knives she uses, compared to how I might normally sharpen...?


Realistically it doesn't matter all that much. But you can sharpen to a wider angle for a rock cutter if you want.


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## cotedupy (Sep 29, 2020)

Kippington said:


> Realistically it doesn't matter all that much. But you can sharpen to a wider angle for a rock cutter if you want.



Ta. That's what I assumed, we've not chipped any knives yet, but it sometimes makes me nervous watching her cut!


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