# Any opinion about Hiromoto honyaki gyuto.



## Brucewml (Dec 29, 2016)

Hello everyone. This movement I am really interesting in honyaki blade. And western handle always my first opinion. So tempted by hiromoto honyaki. Any review or any information about that blade compare to those famous honyaki blade. 

Thanks so much. Bruce


----------



## El Pescador (Dec 29, 2016)

I own a 240mm Hiro Honyaki that Dave is currently re-handling. It really is a great knife. Thicker at the spine but not Kato thick. I had Mr Nagao sharpen it up for me before it was sent out. I used it a couple of times and really liked how sharp I could get it. I also don't think it's harder than 64 HRC so the edge was tougher than I imagined it would be. No pictures, as it is with Dave for a re-handle, nut when I get it back I'll post it.


----------



## Brucewml (Dec 29, 2016)

Thanks so much. Dude. Feel like need to get one now. Hahahahahahah


----------



## El Pescador (Dec 29, 2016)

yeah, I bought one pretty much the day Koki put them up at JCK. Heirloom quality knife, except for the handle.


----------



## Godslayer (Dec 29, 2016)

Prezzio has one and loves it. I'm thinking I may get one as well but ikeda and shiraki and cris anderson are right there lol. I know they are really well made knives though.


----------



## Anton (Dec 29, 2016)

It rocks 
And actually love the simple handle, I don't have to baby and gets tons of use as a result. really great and undervalued knife. better than a Kato IMO


----------



## Brucewml (Dec 29, 2016)

Lol I believe the price of those honyaki blade right always double up. But I confusing by so many honyaki marketing blade. So many low end knives also put the honyaki name on it. And hiromoto knife I can not see hamon on it.


----------



## preizzo (Dec 30, 2016)

Highly recommended this knife! Much better than the as version. Hold the edge quite long time, easy to sharpen and it cut super smoothly. Actually I own the version with the simple handle and want to buy the one with bolster


----------



## Anton (Dec 30, 2016)

Brucewml said:


> Lol I believe the price of those honyaki blade right always double up. But I confusing by so many honyaki marketing blade. So many low end knives also put the honyaki name on it. And hiromoto knife I can not see hamon on it.



There is a Hamon but it is not for aesthetics


----------



## preizzo (Dec 30, 2016)

After you using it it will show up more.


----------



## inzite (Dec 30, 2016)

the hamon is similar to watanabe honyaki but less polishes for the contrast. like others in this post, i love mine!


----------



## chinacats (Dec 30, 2016)

While it's obviously a popular knife, I sent mine back...that said, I kind of get what people like about them. Mine had a small crack on the blade and I wasn't looking for a rehandle project.


----------



## fatboylim (Dec 30, 2016)

Is the 240 honyaki a heavy workhorse knife or really thin at the spine? It's quite an interesting knife.


----------



## preizzo (Dec 30, 2016)

The wa handled it s a laser knife, thin at the spine, the last three cm of the blade are just paper thin, but the cutting edge is not that crazy thin. 
Mine it s thin enough to slide in to ingredients with no effort.


----------



## Brucewml (Dec 30, 2016)

Sounds this knife worth the money. Lol cool!!!!


----------



## supersayan3 (Jan 2, 2017)

preizzo said:


> The wa handled it s a laser knife, thin at the spine, the last three cm of the blade are just paper thin, but the cutting edge is not that crazy thin.
> Mine it s thin enough to slide in to ingredients with no effort.



Interesting that you said the last 3 cm!
Everyone tends to count 1cm from the tip, which is pointless.
The distance measured, if you want to do delicate tip work, has to be over 5 cm


----------



## jkao (Jan 4, 2017)

Is the one with the bolster thicker or are they the same?


----------



## supersayan3 (Jan 4, 2017)

Judging from 2mb I have and 1 rosewood, in general small noticeable differences geometrically, with the mb being tiny thinner at spinal tapering as you progress towards the tip.
The important differences are : a.the mb is harder
B. The rw handle is lighter , but the mb is perfectly balanced, and has the mb which as a pro, I love


----------



## jkao (Jan 4, 2017)

Thanks, good to know it's not just the handle that's different.


----------



## riba (Jan 6, 2017)

I asked Koki whether there are difference and got the following reponse:
"These [rose wood handle] are the special models from Master Nagao and the blade is through same making process as his normal Honyaki knives (the Black Pakka Wood handle with Stainless steel bolster) We expect the Nagao Honyaki knife has high hardness around HRC 63"

I bought the rosewood version. Actually like the handle...


----------



## Timthebeaver (Jan 6, 2017)

I also asked Koki before I bought mine (Rosewood). He confirmed that the blade is the same. Any differences between examples are not going to be consistent.


----------



## fatboylim (Jan 6, 2017)

Great inputs from everyone. An extra question, for those who bought the Hiromoto Honyaki, has anyone sold/traded them on, or has everyone kept theirs? If so why did they keep it or why did they sell?


----------



## riba (Jan 6, 2017)

Keeping it. Love the taper, thin tip, sharpens up very very nicely, dig the handle. Enjoy it every time I use it.


----------



## supersayan3 (Jan 6, 2017)

Koki told me the same. 
But they are different batches.
Maybe the one that I have rose wood handle is softer compared to the other 2, but no chippy at all, eve trying to cut fish bones , in a gently way, to test its limits. Also feels more nimble, since it is lighter at hand. 

Of course I cannot possibly know the technical procedures etc.

It is a strange though, that the had a price difference of 190$.
The bolster would justify a 30-50$ difference.

I like both and love to use them, but from what I own and can compare, the mb is even better


----------



## fatboylim (Jan 6, 2017)

I've of seen it on BST once and it was retracted, so I figured most people like them so much they keep them!


----------



## supersayan3 (Jan 6, 2017)

I had my rosewood for trade with a mb in the B/S/T 
After 2-3 days I put it in the kitchen and I smiled [emoji4]


----------



## Anton (Jan 6, 2017)

For the money Shigs and Katos are going for this, I think, is one of the best values and performance knife out there 
IMO 
I feel I find myself using it most


----------



## Badgertooth (Jan 8, 2017)

What's it like behind the edge - A
Cutter or a food separator?


----------



## supersayan3 (Jan 8, 2017)

Cutter.
Depends on the sector of course.
Closer to the top thinner, towards the middle more convex from the right side


----------



## labor of love (Jan 8, 2017)

I only see the full bolster westerns at jck. Is the bolster less version also available somewhere else at jck'a site?


----------



## fatboylim (Jan 8, 2017)

Sold out a long time ago, it was only $320 so great value for a honyaki!


----------



## jkao (Jan 10, 2017)

Koki said the new version has a stainless tang. Anyone compared the newer version to the older version?


----------



## jkao (Jan 10, 2017)

Also, is welding a stainless tang a common practice? How much does it really help?


----------



## labor of love (Apr 4, 2017)

Has anyone ordered the lefty version? I was quite surprised to see it only cost $10 extra


----------



## inzite (Apr 4, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Has anyone ordered the lefty version? I was quite surprised to see it only cost $10 extra



haha, jck website made it sound like they will simply go regrind the blade or something, sounds like you might lose height and profile as well lol.

in terms of my opinion, i love mine, actually glad i ordered the 270 instead of the 240, love the added length (just slightly longer) and the over all profile and generous flat spot. Steel wise, it sharpens up just like my 185mm one but feels slightly harder/glassier. They both take a beating well. OOTB they are similar, slightly thicker behind the edge then some others but in actual use - say cutting somewhat beefier carrots it doens't really feel any different than a thinner behind the edge blade.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 4, 2017)

I found mine a little thick behind the edge, especially near the tip area. Can't dice onions without applying a lot of force. It looks like it will benefit from thinning.


----------



## preizzo (Apr 4, 2017)

Mine it s super thin behind the edge and the tip it s the thinnest of all my knives. Bad thing is that there is a overgrind which I will have to fix in the next sharpening session! Nothing bad but it anoining me a lot!!!!


----------



## wind88 (Apr 4, 2017)

Do you guys find the knife very flexible roughly 1/4 length to the tip? I find mine flex a lot comparing to kasumi knives like toyama and kato.


----------



## inzite (Apr 4, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I found mine a little thick behind the edge, especially near the tip area. Can't dice onions without applying a lot of force. It looks like it will benefit from thinning.



my 270 definitely isn't the thinnest behind the edge but in actual kitchen use I don't feel a noticeable difference (since I wouldn't call it exactly real thick behind the edge). Maybe we are talking about individual sample variance here. The tip of mine from the spine is actually thinner than my Kato's tip, my 185mm is actually the thinnest when looking at the tip from the spine side for all my knives. I think the bottom line is they are great daily drivers that fits well for a wide range of tasks and if you want to tweak it to your liking it can only get better from there.


----------



## inzite (Apr 4, 2017)

wind88 said:


> Do you guys find the knife very flexible roughly 1/4 length to the tip? I find mine flex a lot comparing to kasumi knives like toyama and kato.



my 270mm does has some flex for the final 1/4 or so of the blade, I only have one 270mm so can't compare the stiffness for a 240mm which I would expect to have less flex due to less length, it certainly does not flex to the degree where it feels dangerous using the knife or pose a problem when sharpening on stones . I find my 185mm feel very stiff with little flex.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 4, 2017)

inzite said:


> haha, jck website made it sound like they will simply go regrind the blade or something, sounds like you might lose height and profile as well lol..


That is unlikely. I'm nowhere near a pro blade thinner/grinder but that doesn't even happen to me.


----------



## khashy (Apr 4, 2017)

I can't detect any noticeable flex on my 240. There is some if you apply real pressure but not in the normal course of things.

In terms if thinness behind the edge, I'd say on the thinner side of medium thickness, if that makes sense


----------



## wind88 (Apr 4, 2017)

when I put my 240 on a vice trying to ease the spin using shoe shine method, 1/4 to the tip would flex uncomfortable. Mine is also quite thin behind the edge closer to the tip.

Btw, the "plain" look of the Hiromoto is really growing on me.


----------



## supersayan3 (Apr 6, 2017)

Mines 24, are not flex at all, and only Ryusen Blazen may have thinner tip, may not.
Being ignorant of the procedures involved, concerning the cases with the thick tip, it may vary because of the person that did the grinding?


----------



## supersayan3 (Apr 6, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I found mine a little thick behind the edge, especially near the tip area. Can't dice onions without applying a lot of force. It looks like it will benefit from thinning.



Try sharpening it properly first.
Since it is carbon, maybe the tip sectors edge reacted more than the rest of the blade


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 6, 2017)

supersayan3 said:


> Try sharpening it properly first.
> Since it is carbon, maybe the tip sectors edge reacted more than the rest of the blade



I must say i was using the factory edge before my first comment. After sharpening (numata, takashima, ohira karasu) it was better, but still required considerably more force to push cut through onions than, say, Takeda or Watanabe. Still think it would benefit from a little thinning. Mine is the one with a metal bolster and has no flex.


----------



## jkao (Apr 6, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I must say i was using the factory edge before my first comment. After sharpening (numata, takashima, ohira karasu) it was better, but still required considerably more force to push cut through onions than, say, Takeda or Watanabe. Still think it would benefit from a little thinning. Mine is the one with a metal bolster and has no flex.



When did you get yours? I am noticing something similar to you that it requires a little more force to push through denser vegetables.


----------



## zitangy (Apr 6, 2017)

The said Honyaki varies in weight from 215 to 256 grams...

most of them are in 225 to 235 region..

Z


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 6, 2017)

jkao said:


> When did you get yours? I am noticing something similar to you that it requires a little more force to push through denser vegetables.



I've got mine recentely, a couple of months ago.


----------



## inzite (Apr 6, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I must say i was using the factory edge before my first comment. After sharpening (numata, takashima, ohira karasu) it was better, but still required considerably more force to push cut through onions than, say, Takeda or Watanabe. Still think it would benefit from a little thinning. Mine is the one with a metal bolster and has no flex.



it's quite possible as it is definitely not a laser by any regards, I can totally see a takeda doing better through onions since it might be a thinner blade as well. My 270 only has slight flex for the final 1.4 or so if i try to bend it.

Here is a comparison on how the thickness looks from the spine side as well as general profile comparison between my line up. Something worth mentioning is even the Kurosaki has 0 issues doing horizontal and vertical cuts for some of the mutant onions we buy here.



&#128526; #hiromoto #kiyoshikato #shigefusa #yukurosaki by Ricky Cheong Photography, on Flickr



IMG_20170216_163004_112 by Ricky Cheong Photography, on Flickr


----------



## jkao (Apr 6, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I've got mine recentely, a couple of months ago.



Mine is also fairly new. Maybe the most recent batch have a different grind compared to the earlier ones.


----------



## inzite (Apr 6, 2017)

jkao said:


> Mine is also fairly new. Maybe the most recent batch have a different grind compared to the earlier ones.



The one I showed above is also within the past 2 months or so. I wouldn't call it a thick grind but it's not a thin grind that's for sure but it cuts comparable to the rest as each knife has it's quirks. The tip of the hiromoto is fine for onions (horizontal and vertical cut) as I cook alot of that through out the week and it is smooth when doing push cuts to complete the dicing/squaring of the onions and I don't even have the knife skills as most pros do on here.


----------



## supersayan3 (Apr 6, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I must say i was using the factory edge before my first comment. After sharpening (numata, takashima, ohira karasu) it was better, but still required considerably more force to push cut through onions than, say, Takeda or Watanabe. Still think it would benefit from a little thinning. Mine is the one with a metal bolster and has no flex.



Don't mean to disappoint you, don't mean to impress or to act smart, but either something is wrong with your particular knife, or with your sharpening. 
Mines requires no force at all, I don't have as good stones as you have, I am content with my sharpening skills, but I imagine half of the forum might be better than me.


----------



## supersayan3 (Apr 6, 2017)

zitangy said:


> The said Honyaki varies in weight from 215 to 256 grams...
> 
> most of them are in 225 to 235 region..
> 
> Z



Metal bolster 24, I have 2, on the different scales 240 gr each

Bolsterless, 214 gr


----------



## supersayan3 (Apr 6, 2017)

supersayan3 said:


> Metal bolster 24, I have 2, on the different scales 240 gr each
> 
> Bolsterless, 214 gr



Maybe I got lucky? 
Don't know, happy anyway


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 6, 2017)

supersayan3 said:


> Don't mean to disappoint you, don't mean to impress or to act smart, but either something is wrong with your particular knife, or with your sharpening.
> Mines requires no force at all, I don't have as good stones as you have, I am content with my sharpening skills, but I imagine half of the forum might be better than me.



I'm not disappointed at all, i see this as a feature of my particular hiromoto. Zero flex and a bit thicker behind the edge than i would like, that's all. As i said before, a little thinning should solve that. As a plus, the edge it takes is great and i like it can keep a higher polished edge than most.

As for the possibility of something being wrong with my sharpening, i could be wrong, but i don't think that's the issue. The edge it takes is great, the problem is the geometry.


----------



## wind88 (Apr 7, 2017)

my metal bolster 240mm is around 223g on the scale.

I'm not sure if the micarta handle has anything to do with the weight comparing to pakkawood handle.


----------



## jkao (Apr 7, 2017)

My 240 with micarta handle is 225g.


----------



## supersayan3 (Apr 7, 2017)

Haha, so either the knives vary, or my scales need recalibration.
Anyways, you enjoy your knives?
They give you a blast?


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 8, 2017)

I imagine the knives might vary a little bit, being made by hand and all.
I have a great time with knives and stones when sharpening and cooking. Even with this hiromoto issue, i'm still happy with the kind of polished edge this knife can sustain. Honyakis are awesome.


----------



## inzite (Apr 8, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I imagine the knives might vary a little bit, being made by hand and all.
> I have a great time with knives and stones when sharpening and cooking. Even with this hiromoto issue, i'm still happy with the kind of polished edge this knife can sustain. Honyakis are awesome.



 yes and it just comes right back after the slightest sweep across a stone


----------



## wind88 (Apr 8, 2017)

I haven't put mine to the stone yet. Still with factory edge and I have been using it exclusively since I got it. Its awesome.


----------



## inzite (Apr 8, 2017)

wind88 said:


> I haven't put mine to the stone yet. Still with factory edge and I have been using it exclusively since I got it. Its awesome.



 another fellow canadian with a hiromoto  where abouts?


----------



## wind88 (Apr 8, 2017)

inzite said:


> another fellow canadian with a hiromoto  where abouts?



I'm in Toronto as well


----------



## inzite (Apr 8, 2017)

wind88 said:


> I'm in Toronto as well



 we should have a yyz meet some day haha and share some knowledge and experience and stones haha


----------



## panda (Apr 9, 2017)

Who bought all the suji's? I'm bummed I missed out on one. I haven't seen anybody here post that they got one either..


----------



## inzite (Apr 9, 2017)

panda said:


> Who bought all the suji's? I'm bummed I missed out on one. I haven't seen anybody here post that they got one either..



probably love em too much hahaha.


----------



## supersayan3 (Apr 9, 2017)

I have a sujihiki, that I have never used. It is different than the gyuto,
it doesn't have spinal taper at all, different knife for a different use.
A short funny story about it, I asked Koki if Master Nagao can send me a photo of himself with it.
Koki replied that many had asked autographs on the box or photos, but Master never does that.
I replied with a mail, as to why I understand it and respect it, based on my grandmother and father, a little older and a little younger than Master's age. They were both doing artistic jobs, but their seriousness dictated only photos of their products. They accepted photos only with family and staff..
And some extra things about people of that generation.
I don't know if my mail moved the Master, or Koki did his best, or a little of both, but suddenly, I got the photo [emoji173]&#65039;


----------



## valgard (Apr 9, 2017)

supersayan3 said:


> I have a sujihiki, that I have never used. It is different than the gyuto,
> it doesn't have spinal taper at all, different knife for a different use.
> A short funny story about it, I asked Koki if Master Nagao can send me a photo of himself with it.
> Koki replied that many had asked autographs on the box or photos, but Master never does that.
> ...



That's pretty awesome, great story.


----------



## supersayan3 (Apr 9, 2017)

valgard said:


> That's pretty awesome, great story.



Never expected it to happen, haha, funny


----------



## jkao (Apr 11, 2017)

After sharpening it even with my crappy sharpening skills, it felt much better. Also changing the way I hold it so the rougher spots don't push against my finger also helped.


----------



## preizzo (Apr 16, 2017)

Last week I used and abused my hiromoto honiyaki. I cutted crusty soredough bread, 10 kg onion,3 sides of smoked pancetta, lot of carrots &#129365;, zucchini, etc.... 
Well the knife it s still sharp and there are no signs of chipping. 
So far the thinnest tip in all my knives and definitely the only laser knife in my collection that I am sure I will never sell!! 
Mine it s the bolsterless version.


----------



## Nemo (Apr 16, 2017)

I have a fairly new 270mm bolstered version gyuto. It has a flat profile for just over a half of the blade , with a gentle curve up to a middle height tip. The tip is quite thin. It feels well balanced and the balance point is just at the pinch grip.

Fit & finish was indifferent. The handle and tang are fine. The spine and choil were both pretty sharp (not any more). The blade polish looked like it had been left half done. There was an area of almost mirror polish but the rest of the blade had a much lower level of polish, with very prominent vertical buffing striations. I did polish it up but I need a lot more time and effort to completely get rid of those striations. I don't know if I can be bothered given how easily it patinas (it looks quite good with a grey- blue patina). The knife did not arrive sharp. Fortunately this was very easy to fix. SS3 describes it as "sharpening like butter" and I think that this is a good description. I'm not an expert sharpener but I could put a very sharp edge on it and deburr very easily.

The grind is assymetrical, with moderate convexity on the left and more substantial convexity on the right. At the choil, it looks thicker behind the edge than any of my other Japanese knives.

Performance is what you would expect from the grind. It's not a laser like push cutter, but slicing is very good and the heel does perform well in harder food. Food release is good but not great. With it's thin tip, it deals with onions well. Performance in softer foods like zucchini and eggplant is fairly good.

The knife does have that monosteel "loud" feeling on the board. I do feel the food I'm going through and the board itself much more than with a san mai. At first I found it disconcerting but as I've gotten used to it, I think it is helping to refine my technique. I have felt this with other honyakii and other monosteel knives. I realise that the engineering science behind this is contentious- I'm just reporting what I'm perceiving.

The knife feels robust. No fragile edge sensation with poorly executed cuts in tall hard food.

Edge retention has not really been tested. I haven't had to think about sharpening again yet but I've only been using it intermittently.

I think this knife would be at home in the hands of a pro on the line, where its reasonably good food release and robustness would aid rapid prep. I enjoy using it with its honyaki feel, good balance and good (but not excellent) food release but don't expect laser-like push cutting from it. I'm not sure if this is because I got one of the thicker grinds or if that's just how they are.


----------



## inzite (Apr 16, 2017)

Nemo said:


> I have a fairly new 270mm bolstered version gyuto. It has a flat profile for just over a half of the blade , with a gentle curve up to a middle height tip. The tip is quite thin. It feels well balanced and the balance point is just at the pinch grip.
> 
> Fit & finish was indifferent. The handle and tang are fine. The spine and choil were both pretty sharp (not any more). The blade polish looked like it had been left half done. There was an area of almost mirror polish but the rest of the blade had a much lower level of polish, with very prominent vertical buffing striations. I did polish it up but I need a lot more time and effort to completely get rid of those striations. I don't know if I can be bothered given how easily it patinas (it looks quite good with a grey- blue patina). The knife did not arrive sharp. Fortunately this was very easy to fix. SS3 describes it as "sharpening like butter" and I think that this is a good description. I'm not an expert sharpener but I could put a very sharp edge on it and deburr very easily.
> 
> ...



mirrors exactly my thoughts on my 270 as well. love the generous flat spot!


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 20, 2017)

I ordered a 240 today as it seems to be a great mono steel at a reasonable price. Going to be my 3rd Hiro. I want to put a new western handle on it when it comes in.

Im waiting to get my 240 AS knife back from John... had the knife sitting around since I bought it new and never used it. I do use my petty all the time.


----------



## Nemo (Apr 20, 2017)

People keep buying them and JCK seems to still be in stock.

Makes me confused given the reports of people being told that there are only a couple left.


----------



## khashy (Apr 20, 2017)

Nemo said:


> People keep buying them and JCK seems to still be in stock.
> 
> Makes me confused given the reports of people being told that there are only a couple left.



I was told there was five left and that was a while back. I imagine there has been at least five purchases since then that people here have bought that we know of...


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 20, 2017)

khashy said:


> I was told there was five left and that was a while back. I imagine there has been at least five purchases since then that people here have bought that we know of...



oh.. I hope that there is more left and I dont get the last one... as that me the one everyone rejected.


----------



## khashy (Apr 20, 2017)

sergeysus said:


> oh.. I hope that there is more left and I dont get the last one... as that me the one everyone rejected.



there as been no returns as far as I'm aware, so you should be alright. It's a good blade you'll like it and actually it will grow on you even more as you use it.


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 20, 2017)

khashy said:


> there as been no returns as far as I'm aware, so you should be alright. It's a good blade you'll like it and actually it will grow on you even more as you use it.



thanks! Im sure I'll love it. Got my tracking number..... so it is in stock.


----------



## jkao (Apr 21, 2017)

For the people who bought it recently, did anyone get the newer version where the characters are printed on instead of engraved?


----------



## labor of love (Apr 21, 2017)

jkao said:


> For the people who bought it recently, did anyone get the newer version where the characters are printed on instead of engraved?



Well that's a bummer. Stamped kanji on a honyaki?


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 21, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Well that's a bummer. Stamped kanji on a honyaki?



that cant be true.......


----------



## jkao (Apr 21, 2017)

I got one like that but I decided to exchange it so I never tried it. I was told that's the newer version and the tang is stainless.


----------



## panda (Apr 22, 2017)

I would prefer no markings at all, except at the end of the handle.


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 22, 2017)

I am expecting the knife thats on the website photos... so I hope that is what comes in the mail.


----------



## supersayan3 (Apr 23, 2017)

jkao said:


> I got one like that but I decided to exchange it so I never tried it. I was told that's the newer version and the tang is stainless.



What exactly were you told?
There is a new batch out?


----------



## wind88 (Apr 23, 2017)

I bought a 240 roughly over a month ago and it was exactly the same as the pictures on JCK.

I believe it is with stainless tang as well.


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 23, 2017)

wind88 said:


> I bought a 240 roughly over a month ago and it was exactly the same as the pictures on JCK.
> 
> I believe it is with stainless tang as well.



appreciate that comment. Cant imagine that there would be honyaki produced with a stamped kanji and JCK not putting that info on the site.


----------



## inzite (Apr 23, 2017)

sergeysus said:


> appreciate that comment. Cant imagine that there would be honyaki produced with a stamped kanji and JCK not putting that info on the site.



arent sukenari stamped kanji as well?


----------



## pete84 (Apr 23, 2017)

Just ordered one. Koki confirmed they are stamped kanji not screened and there are three handle options (for the 240mm anyway) and they are pakkawood, linen micarta, and white corian.

Got the corian, and figure if its not "my thing" it'll get a nice rehandle from Dave. Not a fan of pakka or micarta...

Excited! Will post pics when its here


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 23, 2017)

pete84 said:


> Just ordered one. Koki confirmed they are stamped kanji not screened and there are three handle options (for the 240mm anyway) and they are pakkawood, linen micarta, and white corian.
> 
> Got the corian, and figure if its not "my thing" it'll get a nice rehandle from Dave. Not a fan of pakka or micarta...
> 
> Excited! Will post pics when its here



good to hear that it is confirmed as stamped and not screened. I did not know they have handle options, my will get a rehandle regardless.

My knife has cleared customes, so Im guessing it wil be here Mon or Tues - thats quick shipping from Japan!


----------



## pete84 (Apr 24, 2017)

Got an email this morning, so apparently the white corian handle versions have some kind of problem that prohibits Koki from selling them at this time.

They have linen micarta handle versions available.


----------



## jkao (Apr 24, 2017)

supersayan3 said:


> What exactly were you told?
> There is a new batch out?



This is what he wrote to me about 3 months ago, I asked him because what I received was different from the photo on his site.

The knife you received was Master Nagaos final attempt and final challenging of the Honyaki knife which he believed most practical.

Normally his regular Honyaki Gyuto, its blade tang is carbon steel the tang part has possibility to get rust and discolor easily too.

For the easier maintenance and rust resistance, Master Nagao thought it is best the only blade has White Steel No.2 Honyaki blade and the tang should have stainless steel. Master Nagao thought that is the most practical Honyaki knife for new generation and he finished such Honyaki knife


----------



## labor of love (Apr 24, 2017)

Could somebody post a Hiromoto choil shot?


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 24, 2017)

Just missed my mailman.... that is fast shipping! I can post one tomorrow. My thought is that these are sleeper knives from a legacy and are the last of them. The AS knives are fantastic and have no doubts about these honyaki.


----------



## inzite (Apr 25, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Could somebody post a Hiromoto choil shot?



i did a few pages back along with spine taper.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 25, 2017)

inzite said:


> i did a few pages back along with spine taper.



Hey, I saw the spine and profile comparison photos but not choil shot photos.


----------



## inzite (Apr 25, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Hey, I saw the spine and profile comparison photos but not choil shot photos.



o lol right here in same order.



choil comparison left to right: #hiromoto #honyaki 270mm #gyuto, #kiyoshikato 240mm #gyuto, #shigefusa 240mm #kitaeji #western #sujihiki, #yukurosaki #r2 #western #custom 225mm #gyuto, #hiromoto #honyaki 185mm #gyuto by Ricky Cheong Photography, on Flickr


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 25, 2017)

My knife came in today - ss bolster and looks good so far.


----------



## Badgertooth (Apr 26, 2017)

Nothing wrong with that choil. Verrrrnaaais!


----------



## Anton (Apr 26, 2017)

sergeysus said:


> My knife came in today - ss bolster and looks good so far.



stamped or engraved?


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 26, 2017)

Anton said:


> stamped or engraved?



stamped. 222 grams.


----------



## limpet (Apr 26, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> Nothing wrong with that choil. Verrrrnaaais!


I received one of these yesterday. There is a continous distal taper along the spine, so my guess is that a choil shot may not tell the whole story about the grind. But what else is new?


----------



## limpet (Apr 26, 2017)

Anton said:


> stamped or engraved?





sergeysus said:


> stamped. 222 grams.



I got one yesterday. Indeed it's stamped (not screened). 

I guess some sort of color has been added inside the stamp afterwards? Or maybe it's stamped before grinding so it's some sort of forged kurouchi finish in the bottom of the stamp?

A picture of mine: https://www.instagram.com/p/BTT2idngQuL/


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 27, 2017)

it too much Kanji for me. So far, food release is meh and the tip has flex..... the board contact has quite the feedback that I like and I like the western handle. The heel on my knife needs work....


----------



## labor of love (Apr 27, 2017)

sergeysus said:


> it too much Kanji for me. So far, food release is meh and the tip has flex..... the board contact has quite the feedback that I like and I like the western handle. The heel on my knife needs work....



222grams is pretty light for a 240mm western. For comparison's sake a 240mm gesshin ginga western weighs 206 grams. Ofcourse this doesn't take into account the balance point and handle weight.


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 27, 2017)

labor of love said:


> 222grams is pretty light for a 240mm western. For comparison's sake a 240mm gesshin ginga western weighs 206 grams. Ofcourse this doesn't take into account the balance point and handle weight.



bolster & western handle add to weight. Yes, very light feel and I like board feedback. Going to get my Hiro AS back on Fri from John and see how they compare. 

Now I have 2 too many gyutous.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 27, 2017)

Edit


----------



## labor of love (Apr 27, 2017)

sergeysus said:


> bolster & western handle add to weight. Yes, very light feel and I like board feedback. Going to get my Hiro AS back on Fri from John and see how they compare.
> 
> Now I have 2 too many gyutous.



Any idea where the balance point in yours is?


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 27, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Any idea where the balance point in yours is?


----------



## limpet (Apr 27, 2017)

sergeysus said:


> So far, food release is meh and the tip has flex..... the board contact has quite the feedback that I like and I like the western handle. The heel on my knife needs work....


Agree. The heel has a rather agressive back-belly.

Regarding performance, yes food release doesn't seem to be one of its strengths. However, I'm putting this knife in my "need-to-work-with-it-a-while-to-know-it" category. Regarding food release, I'm getting a feeling this knife will favor quick, decisive action & speed. I just need to figure out which parts of the blade works best for different tasks and with which technique. Some knives just "work out of the box" for me, they are already suiting my default technique. This seems to be one of those with a learning curve for me, it's going to be fun. 

Personally, I really like that it's feeling so lightweight, but that can be because I'm used to blade heavy knives with wa handles.


----------



## Nemo (Apr 27, 2017)

limpet said:


> Agree. The heel has a rather agressive back-belly.
> 
> Regarding performance, yes food release doesn't seem to be one of its strengths. However, I'm putting this knife in my "need-to-work-with-it-a-while-to-know-it" category. Regarding food release, I'm getting a feeling this knife will favor quick, decisive action & speed. I just need to figure out which parts of the blade works best for different tasks and with which technique. Some knives just "work out of the box" for me, they are already suiting my default technique. This seems to be one of those with a learning curve for me, it's going to be fun.
> 
> Personally, I really like that it's feeling so lightweight, but that can be because I'm used to blade heavy knives with wa handles.



Interesting. I must have gotten a thicker grind. I would have said food release on mine is not too bad and it's not a super light knife. It is certainly one which needs a bit of getting used to for me, although I do get a bit of the "begs to be shown a pile of food" feling with it. I'm not sure if this comes from the grind or from being a monosteel or maybe it's just in my head.


----------



## sergeysus (Apr 27, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Interesting. I must have gotten a thicker grind. I would have said food release on mine is not too bad and it's not a super light knife. It is certainly one which needs a bit of getting used to for me, although I do get a bit of the "begs to be shown a pile of food" feling with it. I'm not sure if this comes from the grind or from being a monosteel or maybe it's just in my head.



has there always been an inconsistency with Hirmoto? I remember a while back there was quite a bit of inconsistent grinds & edges on the AS knives. 

I ended up buying an AS knife a while back before they ran out and never used it because of the chunk behind the edge.


----------



## jkao (Aug 23, 2017)

So it's been a few months since the last post. How do people like it after using it for a while? Did anyone try thinning it a little?


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 23, 2017)

I got mine about two weeks ago and went from aloof to in love. The steel and ht is top shelf. And I am thinning as I go and splurged on an atoma 140 to help with that. And each thinning i do moves it a little closer to its immense potential. It takes a sick edge but refinement cause a dramatic drop off in toothiness. But a lot of latent class under the hood, just gotta be unafraid of laying it flat on a stone. King Hyper 1000 eats up the metal. King 300 needs opening up every so often with a diamond plate.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Aug 23, 2017)

I would like to report that i thinned a third part of the blade near the tip and although it's not there yet, it improved significantly. No more a lot of force needed to dice onions.


----------



## Nemo (Aug 23, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> I got mine about two weeks ago and went from aloof to in love. The steel and ht is top shelf. And I am thinning as I go and splurged on an atoma 140 to help with that. And each thinning i do moves it a little closer to its immense potential. It takes a sick edge but refinement cause a dramatic drop off in toothiness. But a lot of latent class under the hood, just gotta be unafraid of laying it flat on a stone. King Hyper 1000 eats up the metal. King 300 needs opening up every so often with a diamond plate.


Otto, was your thinning bevel flat or convexed? How far up the blade face did you thin?

Did you refinish it yet?

What do you think is the sweet spot grit for edge refinement?


----------



## Anton (Aug 23, 2017)

Just be careful 
Mine fractured, not sure how it even happened, small 1/4" fracture on spine


----------



## zitangy (Aug 23, 2017)

AS mentioned b4, the weight of the knife can range between 210 adn 255 grams. The thinner one wld hv a very thin tip and possibly flex a little.

The HRC i believe is a on the lower side... ard 62 as i am able to get a almost mirror polish without breaking a sweat as compared to my other Honyakis. In that process i lost close to 15 grams and I stopped removing steel.

On the whole... a lovely western handle knife , easy to touch up the edge and it is a robust knife adn if you must have an uber sharp knife...... remove some steel behind the edge if it is not thin enough

I do prefer a edge retention though...

have fun rgds Z


----------



## panda (Aug 23, 2017)

I thought it would be a good project knife but 62hrc puts me off.


----------



## Matus (Aug 23, 2017)

panda said:


> I thought it would be a good project knife but 62hrc puts me off.


Too much or too little


----------



## panda (Aug 23, 2017)

Too low


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 23, 2017)

WOW! What knives come in at higher than 62hrc?


----------



## labor of love (Aug 23, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> WOW! What knives come in at higher than 62hrc?



I've read that often times makers don't actually hit their targeted hrc, but that being said there's quite a few AS knives that are hrc 64 if not more and alot of honyakis are advertised at atleast hrc 63. Then there's watanabe, shig, fujiwara, kato and heiji all of which are probably higher than 62hrc just name a few.


----------



## RDalman (Aug 23, 2017)

Please... Unless it's a measured hrc it's very unreliable to go by feel. I sharpened a 54 rc carbon recently and would have taken it for a 60 by "feel".


----------



## labor of love (Aug 23, 2017)

RDalman said:


> Please... Unless it's a measured hrc it's very unreliable to go by feel. I sharpened a 54 rc carbon recently and would have taken it for a 60 by "feel".



Did someone mention going on feel?


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 23, 2017)

Ok, showing my ignorance here - but is there that much of a difference between an hrc of 63 and one of 64? I get that there is a difference between, say a hrc of 52 vs. 62.

Reason I ask is I thought Watanabe went in the 63-65 range which is consistent as I've not noticed a marked difference in hardness from his blades to most of my other Japanese knives. 

Yes it's easy to note the difference between my german knives and my better knives. 

It will be interesting to see how my one honyaki will feel when I finally need to take it to the stones.

Probably more my inexperience speaking than anything else.


----------



## RDalman (Aug 23, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Did someone mention going on feel?



That's the way I interpreted Zitangys post on the previous page. Or are they advertised as 62?


----------



## riba (Aug 23, 2017)

According Koki: We expect the Nagao Honyaki knife has high hardness around HRC 63


----------



## supersayan3 (Aug 23, 2017)

I think that almost all white Mizu Honyakis are aimed at 63/64, with final result being around 63. 
My rose wood handle feels softer, the other 2 metal bolster, feel equally hard to Sukenari and Mizuno


----------



## labor of love (Aug 23, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> Ok, showing my ignorance here - but is there that much of a difference between an hrc of 63 and one of 64? I get that there is a difference between, say a hrc of 52 vs. 62.
> 
> Reason I ask is I thought Watanabe went in the 63-65 range which is consistent as I've not noticed a marked difference in hardness from his blades to most of my other Japanese knives.
> 
> ...


Well, that's tricky &#128512;. I doubt one could tell the difference between 63 and 64hrc or knives advertised at that hardness. But I can tell a difference between 59-60hrc and things like watanabe and others that are advertised at 63-65. And it's not like either group of hardness is superior to the other, just different characteristics arrive with diff level of hardness.


----------



## zitangy (Aug 23, 2017)

Most of the common knives out there are around 59/60 Hrc. The better ones are in 62 hrc region for high carbon steel. The tool steels are slightly higher.

I do find that 64/65 hrc is more chippy ( not micro chips).. does not mean more is better if you desire a more balanced knife in terms of usage .. occasional/ accidental contact with bones and seeds. It matters to me as being a mono steel ( for honyakis) , you may get a hairline crack line beyond the chip. May not be visible on San Mai knives as the hard steel is jacketed by a softer steel/iron.

Micro chips do not bother me as after a few light sharpenings, as the edge recedes.. it gets slightly thicker and thus adjusts to your use.

I do suspect that 63hrc is a sweet spot and I am looking for a maker to make a custom AEBL at 63hrc... as i do enjoy a mono stainless steel and i imagine tht the fine carbines wld allow it to be finely sharpened...

Just my views.... and do look for views from the makers who have done testings and also based on their vast experience rgds Z


----------



## labor of love (Aug 23, 2017)

I've used ALOT of gyutos made from wh2, for instance. They've had diff hrc and I think overtime it becomes pretty noticeable.


----------



## RDalman (Aug 23, 2017)

63 is perfect for me and where I want to be with many steels. 62-64 is a good range to be in imo, for a very fine but stable edge. But 64 is pushing it on the fragile side, 64 and up requires a little thicker edge ime to deal with chippiness.


----------



## Matus (Aug 23, 2017)

RDalman said:


> 63 is perfect for me and where I want to be with many steels. 62-64 is a good range to be in imo, for a very fine but stable edge. But 64 is pushing it on the fragile side, 64 and up requires a little thicker edge ime to deal with chippiness.



Robin, do you find that to be the case over different steels cabon/tool/stainless/etc.?

I was told (Juergen Schanz who has a lot of experience with this steel) that, in the case of Niolox - there is no point going past 61HRC as the edge holding does not improve, just the blade gets more brittle. So I would expect that other steels may have yet different response to different HRC values.


----------



## zitangy (Aug 23, 2017)

Anton>>"Just be careful 
Mine fractured, not sure how it even happened, small 1/4" fracture on spine"

Z >>>>Just curious.. is it is on the spine... a) is it a straight line b) inside the hamon or outside the hamon area?

The Captain...



"Reason I ask is I thought Watanabe went in the 63-65 range which is consistent as I've not noticed a marked difference in hardness from his blades to most of my other Japanese knives. 

It will be interesting to see how my one honyaki will feel when I finally need to take it to the stones."

Z >>> Sharpening it may take more time.. Thus I either drop to a lower grit or increase pressure when progress is too slow... But when trying to thin it or removing the factory grit lines for polishing work with sandpapers..... that it becomes very apparent. Thinning it on a stone.... too will be a pain.

Note: I buy honyaki knives not with mirror polish.. and work on it to have finer lines and work towards high polish with finer grit lines as opposed to mirror polish.

Look fwd to more views as to the sweetspot for being 63hr
rgds z


----------



## RDalman (Aug 23, 2017)

Matus and Z (sorry everyone else for ot). First off keep in mind HRC is not everything, lets assume good grain size values and everything else "well done", (lesser grain will quench hard and perform less. Interesting chapter in Verhoeven). The 63 is for me a good starting point, I found it to be good for me with almost all low alloy steels. For elmax I experienced both edge retention gains and sharpenability stepping down to 61-62. The rwl I like 62-63, the Rigor (a2) felt really good at 63 too. All personal preference though.


----------



## labor of love (Nov 29, 2017)

Bump!
Im having a difficult time deciding between a hiro honyaki 240mm and a ginga western 240mm wh2(blueway). I was looking to replace wakui in my kit with a mono steel but its difficult to decide if Hiromoto honyaki would be a good candidate as there seems to be conflicting reports of how thin it is behind the edge. The spine isnt very thick so Im surprised these things arent considered thin behind the edge. Maybe I should just rebuy another wakui 240mm. 
Thoughts?


----------



## StephenYu (Nov 30, 2017)

Mono steel, robust spine...Ginrei maybe?


----------



## valgard (Nov 30, 2017)

apparently they need some elbow grease to shine and then they are amazing. Thats what i have heard from a few buds that own them.


----------



## labor of love (Nov 30, 2017)

StephenYu said:


> Mono steel, robust spine...Ginrei maybe?



You read my mind &#128526;


----------



## Badgertooth (Nov 30, 2017)

valgard said:


> apparently they need some elbow grease to shine and then they are amazing. Thats what i have heard from a few buds that own them.



I'm one and i went from Lukewarm to completely enamoured after smashing behind the edge. Stiff, heavy on account of western handle; super thin tip; cuts like a monster


----------



## fatboylim (Nov 30, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> I'm one and i went from Lukewarm to completely enamoured after smashing behind the edge. Stiff, heavy on account of western handle; super thin tip; cuts like a monster


Better than you Teruyasu Fujiwara maboroshi? Or just more rare?

I'm really intrigued by the hiromoto honyaki. I like to use my knives and this one looks great!


----------



## inzite (Nov 30, 2017)

valgard said:


> apparently they need some elbow grease to shine and then they are amazing. Thats what i have heard from a few buds that own them.





fatboylim said:


> Better than you Teruyasu Fujiwara maboroshi? Or just more rare?
> 
> I'm really intrigued by the hiromoto honyaki. I like to use my knives and this one looks great!



The 240 metal bolster is ok thin to begin with behind the edge out of box. The 270 is on the thicker side of things out of the box. Both with thinning behind the edge will really come to life. Same for TF except it has harder steel with better edge retention. TF are generally ok thin behind edge especially the denkas.

my 180 and 270 after thinning and refinished.


----------



## tgfencer (Nov 30, 2017)

For what it's worth, if I intended on keeping mine I would choose to thin it.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Nov 30, 2017)

+1 on thinning. Mine improved a lot after a little bit of thinning on 1cm from the tip. It could use more thinning, though.


----------



## Nemo (Nov 30, 2017)

This is interesting. I do find my 270 is relitavely thick behind the edge. How far up the blade (or at about what angle) have people been thinning?


----------



## Badgertooth (Dec 4, 2017)

Nemo said:


> This is interesting. I do find my 270 is relitavely thick behind the edge. How far up the blade (or at about what angle) have people been thinning?



Good question. I laid it nearly flat so rode up more than halfway. I then lifted in increments making my way back to the edge while retaining some convexity and more or less doing away with the distinction between primary and second bevel which is very pronounced on these OOTB. It's a beast now. It just feels right.


----------



## Nemo (Dec 4, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> Good question. I laid it nearly flat so rode up more than halfway. I then lifted in increments making my way back to the edge while retaining some convexity and more or less doing away with the distinction between primary and second bevel which is very pronounced on these OOTB. It's a beast now. It just feels right.


Thanks for the feedback Badger


----------

