# A tough decision to make



## Chef Niloc (Nov 24, 2013)

Okay so it rains it pours, in good ways and in bad.
Many of you know that I have been offered a job in New York working for Thomas Keller. However I got a surprise phone call, a restaurant here on long island is very interested in giving me the executive chef position. It's a well established restaurant with a great reputation owned by a reputable restaurant group. So here are the pros:

Long Island restaurant:
Pros: 
I don't know for sure yet but it's safe to say at least $20,000 more year, could be as much as 50k more?
The restaurant falls more in my comfort zone, It's running a familiar type of restaurant in a demographic/location I'm familiar with.
with either job I will most likely half to move, this would be an easier and less expensive move.
More creative freedom.
More prestigious title

NYC Pros:
larger company with a impeccable reputation.
more prestigious company
opportunity to learn more
possibly has more room for growth, not sure?
Resume builder, however at this stage of my career I'm not sure how important this is?
moving to the city does have its appeal. Even knowing it would be more expensive and a harder move I have always kind of wanted to do it.

If money was not a factor I would take the city job without a 2nd thought. However I want to make the smart decision here and not just run off and move to the city because I think it would be cool/fun to "live the city life"

A lot of thinking to do here and not a lot of time to do it. You guys are always an insightful bunch and have helped me make more then one hard decisions In my life, so let's here your thoughts.
Thanks
Colin


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## Von blewitt (Nov 24, 2013)

That is a damn tough decision, I don't know if I could turn down an offer from Thomas Keller!


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## turbochef422 (Nov 24, 2013)

I don't know how you could say no to Thomas Keller and the city if its 20more a year but for 50 I think it makes it alittle easier. I'm at the point in my career I want quality of life. But it's gonna be hard to turn down Keller. Maybe impossible. Good luck


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## Mrmnms (Nov 24, 2013)

It will be slightly easier to decide when you can confirm exactly how much more the LI offer is. I imagine the cost of living might be a factor, as well as time commitment. It's great to have they talent to get these kind of options. I look forward to supporting you wherever you choose.


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 24, 2013)

The other consideration is no job is ever a guarantee. That said it would be easier and quicker to find a new job in the city if I was already living there. But I don't really want to use this as one of the considerations because I don't want to think negative like that.


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## Johnny.B.Good (Nov 24, 2013)

Are Keller's people waiting for an answer right now?


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## panda (Nov 24, 2013)

NYC more sexy but having creative freedom can be the difference of being a job vs being a passion. Also, how is the supporting cast?


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## Chuckles (Nov 24, 2013)

A guy I worked with that had spent a few solid years at the Laundry in the early days had very positive things to say about the company. I can't speak to how the company has grown in the intervening years but after a few drinks he wouldn't shut up about it. It really became annoying how much he talked about working there.

Jobs like the Long Island gig will always be there. And having Keller on your résumé will probably cement that for life. Without knowing exactly what is going on in your personal or financial life, it seems from what I have gathered here at KKF over the last year that if ever there was a time to take a step down in rank and live the NYC life it is probably now. 

I am not sure that your knife collection will fit in a Manhatten apartment though.


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## Johnny.B.Good (Nov 24, 2013)

Chuckles said:


> Jobs like the Long Island gig will always be there. And having Keller on your résumé will probably cement that for life. Without knowing exactly what is going on in your personal or financial life, it seems from what I have gathered here at KKF over the last year that if ever there was a time to take a step down in rank and live the NYC life it is probably now.



This sounds like awfully good advice to me.

I wouldn't make Keller wait too long if the offer is on the table.


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## Chuckles (Nov 24, 2013)

And this might be the sexiest kitchen in the country right?


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## Eric (Nov 24, 2013)

I would go for the Keller job.


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## toddnmd (Nov 24, 2013)

Johnny.B.Good said:


> This sounds like awfully good advice to me.
> 
> I wouldn't make Keller wait too long if the offer is on the table.



I'm not a chef, but I also think Chuckles' advice sounds solid. Nice to have two good options, right? Hard to know which is "better" right now.


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## apicius9 (Nov 24, 2013)

If you think ahead ten years, would you regret not having worked on Long Island or not having worked for Keller?

Stefan


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 24, 2013)

Johnny.B.Good said:


> Are Keller's people waiting for an answer right now?


I have an appointment Tuesday morning to discuss salary, so I don't know what it is but I am assuming its a good bit less. It's a Senior sous chef position at a restaurant that likely has no trouble filling positions. I know the previous chef from the restaurant on Long Island, safe to say they will offer me around 100k


panda said:


> NYC more sexy but having creative freedom can be the difference of being a job vs being a passion. Also, how is the supporting cast?


Supporting cast, good question and to be honest I'm not sure. However working on Long Island for as long as I have it's probably non-existent, executive chefs get paid well on the island at the expense of everyone else in the kitchen.
And as far as passion goes I've never really liked that analogy. A passion is something you feel strongly for and engulf yourself with but often only for a short period of time. Passion fades away, at this point of my career I'd say tenacity describes me better. I don't feel a "passion" burning in me, that's not what drives me to get up and go work every day. I'm relentless and methodical at work, I do what I do to spite myself sometimes but mostly just because it's what I do best.



Chuckles said:


> Jobs like the Long Island gig will always be there. And having Keller on your résumé will probably cement that for life. Without knowing exactly what is going on in your personal or financial life, it seems from what I have gathered here at KKF over the last year that if ever there was a time to take a step down in rank and live the NYC life it is probably now.


Mmmmm you kind of hit the nail on the head, that's pretty much how I'm looking at it and what I'm thinking. Job with Keller will be for more money then I make now and I do/have been feeling its time for a change. Just want to make sure I make the smart decision here, that's something I don't always do.



Chuckles said:


> I am not sure that your knife collection will fit in a Manhatten apartment though.



A very good point both for financial reasons (to fund the move) and space limitations I'd have to sell all lot of stuff. But in some ways that might be a good thing it's kind of part of the whole "new start" thing. The 1000++ cookbook collection poses a bigger problem to move my knives. Got some big tools to....man trimming down will be a big, big bi+ch!


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 24, 2013)

apicius9 said:


> If you think ahead ten years, would you regret not having worked on Long Island or not having worked for Keller?
> 
> Stefan


I have thought of that one too, but you word it so much better. if Keller don't work out as a long term career move at least I can say I tried it and I'll likely come out in the and having learned a thing or two. If the Long Island job terns out to be livening hell or doesn't work out I would kick myself for passing up per se. If I take the city job and it doesn't work out I'm in a better spot then if I take the LI job and it doesn't. Tuesday when I know exactly the dollar difference it will make the decision easier, but I wanted to start thinking/talking about it with the money still as an unknown.

Boy it's times like this when I wish my father was still alive


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## panda (Nov 24, 2013)

i'd imagine you're going to get dicked around more in a higher profile environment, bring out your best and worst all at the same time; that to me is more exciting. do you want adventure or stability? sounds to me more like long island might be better direction for you.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Nov 24, 2013)

Keller. Some things in life are worth the risk.

/thread.


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## JohnnyChance (Nov 24, 2013)

It's nice sometimes to take a gig where you aren't the one ultimately responsible at the end of the day. Usually less hours, less stress, more opportunity to learn, etc. And if you rock, a higher position will always become available, there or somewhere else. And maybe one gig is less $, but if it is less hours and stress, maybe quality of life will be better. Recharge your batteries a bit, learn, be inspired. Like it was said, those LI gigs will _always_ be available, _especially_ with TK on your resume. 

Get out of your comfort zone. Take the risk. TK all the way.


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## Crothcipt (Nov 25, 2013)

Chef Niloc said:


> opportunity to learn more
> 
> Thanks
> Colin



Colin, for me this would be all I would consider. I find myself being bored when I am not learning. Which would def. happen to me if I took the LI job. But I'm at the time in my life were the LI job would be nice. In your shoes/resume I would take the Keller gig.

On the other side I saw a Keller sous on a failing restaurant show. (I think Ramsey's) Just to say that anyone can become lazy and not see a problem with it.


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## ecchef (Nov 25, 2013)

A good friend of ours worked at Per Se (director of Private Dining , I believe) and had nothing but good things to say about it. She left to work for Ducasse and hated it. TK personally invited her back to work on the Left coast. If that's not high praise for an employer, nothing is. I'd go with Keller even at my age.
And like Chuckles pointed out, the Island will always be there. 

Manhattan living ain't cheap though. Last I remember, the only place that was still affordable and somewhat livable was UES above 95th street.


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 25, 2013)

JohnnyChance said:


> Recharge your batteries a bit, learn, be inspired. Like it was said, those LI gigs will _always_ be available, _especially_ with TK on your resume.
> 
> Get out of your comfort zone. Take the risk. TK all the way.


I have been babying myself all summer, but you are right I do think it would still be nice to not be#1 for A bit more time.
Geting out of my comfort zone is one of my driving forces, just want to make sure it's not at the expense of everything else.
Sound advice I appreciate it


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 25, 2013)

Crothcipt said:


> Colin, for me this would be all I would consider. I find myself being bored when I am not learning. Which would def. happen to me if I took the LI job. But I'm at the time in my life were the LI job would be nice. In your shoes/resume I would take the Keller gig.
> 
> On the other side I saw a Keller sous on a failing restaurant show. (I think Ramsey's) Just to say that anyone can become lazy and not see a problem with it.



Funny it's the #1 reason I think I got the job, I have been impressive work history as a long-term employee. It was expressed to me the main problem they're having with management is that they become board of the food after a period of time and complacent in their work. I can honestly say this is a problem I have never had, as I mentioned a few posts ago I'm methodical and tenacious when it comes to work.


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 25, 2013)

ecchef said:


> A good friend of ours worked at Per Se (director of Private Dining , I believe) and had nothing but good things to say about it. She left to work for Ducasse and hated it. TK personally invited her back to work on the Left coast. If that's not high praise for an employer, nothing is. I'd go with Keller even at my age.
> And like Chuckles pointed out, the Island will always be there.
> 
> Manhattan living ain't cheap though. Last I remember, the only place that was still affordable and somewhat livable was UES above 95th street.



I'd like to hear more about what it costs to live in the city, I have a vague idea but actual numbers from those of you that do it would be helpful. My calculations are that selling my car thus not having a car payment or insurance, adding that $$ To what I pay in rent now would give me 2200 a month, add gas into that, about 2400.00 think that would get me a ok place in the lower east side or west village? I don't need a big space 500 sq would be ok, a but safe one bedroom, no studio would be ok.


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## Justin0505 (Nov 25, 2013)

+1 on the Keller gig

Sometimes being forced to simplify is a good thing. Even if it's less money in the short term, there's no way that it can't equate to more money or more options in the future. While you've already got a lot of time in the biz' you've also got a lot of life ahead of you... and even if you only had a few months to live, where would you want to spend it? Perhaps the greatest city/ craziest food scene on earth or it's retarded suburb? Also, when you do look back on your life, which would you regret more for not having taken?

I'm not sure if/how you should tell the HR people about the LI gig though. Might be worth mentioning that you were given an offer out of the blue for 'X' more $$ that you turned down.


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## labor of love (Nov 25, 2013)

the keller job sounds great and all...but you could really buy alot of new knives with a $100k gig.:biggrin:


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## rdm_magic (Nov 25, 2013)

How old are you?

Money isn't a good argument for you to take the LI job IMO, and I can't see a single reason that you'd turn down the Keller job, as long as you can afford to live and take care of your commitments.
You are going to regret not taking the Keller job if you don't take it, likely forever. Even with the creative freedom that you're going to have, you won't be creating as much as you will in the city, albeit you probably won't have freedom over your creations.

Take the Keller job.


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## Duckfat (Nov 25, 2013)

I guess I'm the sell out in the crowd. I work for $$$ not prestige or love of the game. There comes a time when chasing the Ace is no longer the best move, Of course I can't know your personal stats but I see plenty of prestige working in the city and cracking 100K.
If some one gave you X dollars and you had to invest the whole thing today with a solid tip that one investment would yield vastly more $$ and was a sure thing Vs a risky move that would surely pay less which play would you make?

Dave


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 25, 2013)

Thanks guys , lots if good advice here keep it coming. I'm 39 now, I tend to agree with all of you that say "as long as the money is enough to cover my expenses and save a little, that's good enough". Thing is I have a bad feeling that the city job might not quite do that?? I'll know tomorrow, and the way I look at it it will likely cost me about 10 grand to move to the city considering first last months rent security deposit agent fees, not to mention random packing supplies, renting a truck etc. etc.
If anyone is here either lives in the city and/or has lived there recently what would you say the average monthly expenses are? Rent utilities MetroCard all that stuff put together, not counting food entertainment or any of that type of stuff just the raw living costs? My rough guess is more than 3K, around 4K?


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## easy13 (Nov 25, 2013)

Decent 1 bedrooms in The LES & West Village start at 3-4k a month (not including cable/internet, varied utilities) due to the fact they are highly desirable hoods, $2400 can get you a decent 1 Br in other areas, Brooklyn, Queens... Commute from Queens on subway aint bad to Time Warner Center/Per Se.


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## Dream Burls (Nov 25, 2013)

Long Island is the suburbs, Manhattan is the big city. Which would you rather have, money in your pocket with nothing to spend it on or the Big Apple where you never have enough money. Seriously, that's a tough choice. Your checklist in or first post is a good start. See if you can prioritize the pros and cons and apply some relative points to them. Add up the points and see where they come out. Then throw that in the garbage and go with your heart.


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 26, 2013)

misscomunacation somewhere? I Have to wate for a new appointment, the person that I need to talk to had an out of town emergency. Just wish someone from H.R. would have called me.


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## gic (Nov 26, 2013)

Well moving books is easy and cheap, it's the space issue of storing them in a typical NYC apartment...


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## gic (Nov 26, 2013)

Or you can live in Jersey City which I love and is a lot cheaper and 2400 will get you something nice is so close to the city via path it's like living in the city anyway...


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## Mr.Magnus (Nov 26, 2013)

i say flip on it.


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## sachem allison (Nov 26, 2013)

ecchef said:


> Manhattan living ain't cheap though. Last I remember, the only place that was still affordable and somewhat livable was UES above 95th street.



nOT ANY MORE.


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## Anton (Nov 26, 2013)

Unfortunately, There is nothing "affordable" left which allows a basic standard of living accustomed to in other parts of the country. I moved out in '11 after 8 years. That being said, if you have not tried it and you have the opportunity you must - I really think this is the one city that has the most way about it, in other words, there is always a way and in my experience the reward can be great.


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## split0101 (Nov 26, 2013)

Living in the city is crazy expensive. $2500 a month will not get you very far unless you dont mind having a roommate  Best bet is to look uptown like upper east side or even higher on the west side like Harlem or Washington Heights. Lower East side can be a hit or miss and same with Alphabet City. Yuor other option is to look to the outer boroughs or NJ. 

My advice is simple, no matter what industry you are in, having a high profile gig on your resume is never a bad thing. You can always use that to parlay that to something bigger in the future if you dont end up liking it. Not knowing where you are in your career or your financial health (not to be confused with financial wealth) its a tough call for anyone to advise you on a career move.


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## Salty dog (Nov 26, 2013)

It's a no brainer.

You'd go crazy.


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## labor of love (Nov 26, 2013)

considering you have enough skills to get hired on to per se straight to soux chef i would think you should be plenty qualified to just own and operate your own establishment. unless you see some finacial backing possibilites happening through your time at per se, why bother? besides youre already 39 years old,which is like a 82 in chef years. what was keller doing when he was 39? learning under other people, or making his own mark?


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## James (Nov 27, 2013)

I'd start looking in Queens. Astoria isn't too expensive.


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## JDA_NC (Nov 27, 2013)

Chef Niloc said:


> misscomunacation somewhere? I Have to wate for a new appointment, the person that I need to talk to had an out of town emergency. Just wish someone from H.R. would have called me.



I'm just a young line cook & I don't know you, so my opinion doesn't matter much but --

I'd pass on Per Se

Working for TK is obviously an amazing resume builder and opens a lot of doors, but at this stage in your career how much does that really impact you? It sounds like you have experience being a CDC or exec. chef for quite some time. If Per Se is willing to consider you as a sous chef then you know a little bit about what you're doing, right? Unless you feel extremely motivated by their cuisine/level of fine dining and want to really spend some time playing the whole Michelin game (and be in NYC) - why do it?

I asked someone I knew to describe what it was like for them to work at Per Se, he responded w/ one word: "sterile". I have never seen their kitchen but it seems like they have a massive brigade - and that you're having to jump through so many hoops and go thru all this red tape to even find what your possible salary might be -- or if you even have the job -- says a whole lot about how they are as a company IMO. Not to say that they'd treat you bad, but this is a massive restaurant group and you'd just be another cog in the machine.

At your stage I would rather take a job where I could have a much more personal connection with my employer, more creative control over my menu and kitchen staff, and hell yes, more money too.

Just my two cents. 

Best of luck with it all


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 28, 2013)

labor of love said:


> considering you have enough skills to get hired on to per se straight to soux chef i would think you should be plenty qualified to just own and operate your own establishment. unless you see some finacial backing possibilites happening through your time at per se, why bother? besides youre already 39 years old,which is like a 82 in chef years. what was keller doing when he was 39? learning under other people, or making his own mark?



I opened a place a few years ago, last year my "partner " F'ed me pretty good, then god saw it fit to destroy the place via hurricane Sandy (thank you Lord), oh wait he hit me pretty hard with that storm too???
Anyway for "right now" in my life I don't necessarily want the #1 spot, and I definitely don't want to own anything or buy. A scene change and the chance to actually learn something new has its appeal.


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 28, 2013)

JDA_NC said:


> I'm just a young line cook & I don't know you, so my opinion doesn't matter much but --
> 
> I'd pass on Per Se
> 
> ...



Everything you are saying sounds right there is right to me, sterile is a pretty good word. 



> I would rather take a job where I could have a much more personal connection with my employer,


I'm trying to avoid that actually right now.


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## ohbewon (Nov 28, 2013)

Chuckles said:


> And this might be the sexiest kitchen in the country right?


 If you don't work there, I will be upset. That is yes indeedy the sexiest kitchen I have ever seen. The iconic "blue aprons".


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 28, 2013)

However this could also be good, I took a screenshot of my email because I know you guys are going to start thinking im making all of this Sh1+ up LOL


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## Justin0505 (Nov 28, 2013)

LOL! The plot thickens! Ramsey is a no doubt a super talented guy, but how could you ever work for the guy who was the original "knuckle head" in one of my favorite media center threads?


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## ohbewon (Nov 28, 2013)

What a beaut! I'd almost vote for Ramsay just because it would set you apart in other resume's. How could you not notice that if you were a recruiter?


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## apicius9 (Nov 28, 2013)

If you go with Ramsey you have to promise that you will smack him in the name of 3500 KKF members if you ever see him doing that stupid thing with a steel on his knife...  

In any case, I am glad to see that you have options. And your wish for your Dad to be around in times like this really made me think about my parents and how grateful I am that they are still around, even if they are 10,000 miles away. Thanks for that!

Stefan


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## Keith Neal (Nov 28, 2013)

Colin:

I can't stand in for your Dad, but I have kids your age and can tell you what I would tell them.

Money is not the most important thing in life. You are still young, with a long career ahead of you. An investment in the future which will open doors for you is something to seriously consider. 

But in the end, kid, you have to go with your heart.

In any case, after the rough times you have had, I am really happy to see you with some attractive options.

Best wishes,

Keith


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## JDA_NC (Nov 28, 2013)

Chef Niloc said:


> However this could also be good, I took a screenshot of my email because I know you guys are going to start thinking im making all of this Sh1+ up LOL



I figure you might have seen this during your research, but just in case:

http://eater.com/archives/2013/10/03/how-did-gordon-ramsay-at-the-london-lose-its-michelin-stars.php

- Went from 2 stars to zero
- No exec chef (at least they didn't for the last few months)
- Gordon Ramsay is just a name, no longer a part of the restaurant


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## Crothcipt (Nov 28, 2013)

I wouldn't be surprised if Ramsey pulls his name from there. Most times the lessee has to keep up to the name, and most contracts have how that is satisfied. Losing 2 stars would def. be a deal breaker.

On the other side gratz on the job offer.


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## JBroida (Nov 28, 2013)

I meant to weigh in on this a while back, but its been busy over here. There has been a lot of good discussion in this thread, so i'm not sure how much this will add. Being a former culinary professional who still finds himself very much attached to the cooking world, i've found that my perspective has changed a lot on this kind of issue over the last few years. When i was cooking, fine dining was the only thing i cared about... it was about being the best, working with the best, and pushing yourself to the limit. At that point, my job was a job of passion, but with no real foresight to the future. Its hard to make enough to get by doing that kind of work, and unless you are really truly great at what you do, have great luck, and are prepared to sacrifice quality of life in favor of "the life", its hard to justify that lifestyle for long periods of time. Thats not to say i dont love and miss that part of the world, but it is to say that i understand what it takes to be able to live now better than i did before (have good insurance, savings, planning for the future, etc.).

If you are the guy who wants to be the best and push yourself, understanding that it will be at the cost of all else, then by all means take the TK job or any other job like that. It will be hard work, but its hard to get to the top without working with people like that... the way they work and the way they see things is just different... for those of you who have worked with guys like that, you know what i mean.

However, if you are starting to value your quality of life, want savings, planning for the future, etc., i would take another job. Maybe the Long Island thing or maybe something else. I have a lot of friends who work in corporate dining (some of which is more fine dining that others). That seems to be the kind of job i would want if i wanted quality of life and the ability to plan for my future well. I'm not saying take a job at sodexo (please dont... its like selling your soul to the devil), but companies like LEYE, Hillstone, Nobu, Wolfgang Puck (especially his hotel restaurants), etc., can do better for you in the long run. You need to be ok with corporate shenannigans, but its a smart long term move. You can always play around with fine dining anyways... its not like we all dont have friends who work at other restaurants... If i miss things, i can call up a number of people and get myself back in a fun kitchen for a day if i want... i'm sure you can do the same.

Oh... and skip the ramsey job.


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks John, to be honest I know exactly what you're saying and the whole reason I'm contemplating going to work in the city is that I have no real "quality of life" right now and I don't think I want one any time soon. I left a long term well paying job for what was supposed to be an "improvement" in my quality of life, mind you I made this decision under my ex-wife's pressure. Well most of you know that whole thing didn't work out so well. So after all of that, then the Hurricane and that accident I was just glad to finally get back to work last summer. However it's a crap job so anything is an improvement both and quality-of-life (work) and pay (hopefully).


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 29, 2013)

Colin I wish the best to you whatever path you take.Many people have mixed feelings about Unions,which I can understand.Several times I was offered management position,but I had many yrs. in the Union,besides my job was that of working manager.Plus I had Ice Carving accounts with other Hotels which kept me busy & paid per sculpture was quite a bit more money than my Union scale pay.

I do not know about Unions on the mainland,here many Hotels still have.I don't know of any private reasturant with.I agree that cooks are underpaid.Janice was a registered Nurse made quite a bit more per hour than I did putting out Banquets.


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## quantumcloud509 (Nov 30, 2013)

I read this whole thread. I pondered. Im 10 years younger than you. I try to go for hotshot places over places which pay better because I know I wont be the best and I will learn. Now, I live in a totally different part of the country than you do. Managed to save up $10k and put a downpayment on a fixed up 2200sqft house across the street from a well cared for park. House payments are $715/ month. I dont make much ($12/hr) and I typically dont even get 40 hours a week anymore because its cheaper for the employer to run everyone just under. I make enough to cover all expenses and take care of my wife and kid and buy a new knife here and there. 

Youre talking about paying $10k just to move somewhere. Youre looking at having $3k a month at least in expenses for a safe, clean life. In 10 years I can guarantee you that you will not be as motivated to get up and do the loco kitchen life thing as you are now. 

I cant say which one is better, or which one you will regret or love. I would like to encourage you to start thinking about quality of life after you turn 50. What if you get too salty and wont be able to work anymore? Where will you live? How will you pay for things? 

Ok...ok. I think that from a purely economical stance Id go with Long Island. Cheaper living costs, opportunity to shine and be your staffs Thomas Keller, opportunity to stash up some money and buy a house somewhere on the west coast where things are awesome and a lot quieter than the east side. Youre not gonna be a young buck forever and in 20 years your health wont care about how many cool people you worked for. 

Hope I didnt come off too sharp. I wish you the best man. Make a 10 year plan and see which restaurant fits it better. Cheers mate!


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 30, 2013)

quantumcloud509 said:


> Hope I didnt come off too sharp. I wish you the best man. Make a 10 year plan and see which restaurant fits it better. Cheers mate!



Not at all that's why I started this thread, be because I have this conflict in my mind. Every and any points of view/ insight is welcome, it helps me sort things out, gives me a broader perspective.
Thank you


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## Chef Niloc (Nov 30, 2013)

One thing that is starting to sink in is that I think "most cooks" go to work for a guy like Keller to gain the experience, knowledge, and " the name" on a resume. They do this whit the hopes to obtain a better job (in pay and title), or to open their own place. 
After reading this thread and the other one that's going on right now I'm starting to think:
I take the job with Keller to achieve what? I have a job looking me in the face that offering over 100k a year, this is obviously the upper tier of what just about any chef expect to make without owning his own place. I guess all my years spent on long island have built me a resume and reputation that allows me to get these upper tier job (on Long Island). The city would be a new start, but what do I expect to achieve from that new start? I think with all that has happened to me the past two years I might just be trying to "run away" from my " old life" rather then make the best of what I've got, and maybe in perspective might not really be that bad at all?


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## Sack of lemons (Nov 30, 2013)

I am about your age (37) and though by this point in a career the skills/confidence/ability to do the job are there in spades, we are no longer young in this industry. I fully understand the desire to start fresh and especially with an exciting opportunity like per se, but personally moving down to a sous position (even senior, whatever that is) is going the wrong way. I am sure that there is room for advancement because the head guys in the kitchen gain their experience and go on to bigger and better things, Jonathan Benno/Corey Lee, but it is also a question of how long are you willing to wait. Maybe by the time you are 45 you have moved up the rungs, but then what. I can't see myself physically being able to cook past fifty and I am in shape, the job is just to hard on the mind and body. Sorry if I come off as negative but just wanted to throw my dice into the party. Good Luck but by the sounds of your last post it seems like you have made up your mind anyway.

laurie


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## Dream Burls (Nov 30, 2013)

Chef Niloc said:


> One thing that is starting to sink in is that I think "most cooks" go to work for a guy like Keller to gain the experience, knowledge, and " the name" on a resume. They do this whit the hopes to obtain a better job (in pay and title), or to open their own place.
> After reading this thread and the other one that's going on right now I'm starting to think:
> I take the job with Keller to achieve what? I have a job looking me in the face that offering over 100k a year, this is obviously the upper tier of what just about any chef expect to make without owning his own place. I guess all my years spent on long island have built me a resume and reputation that allows me to get these upper tier job (on Long Island). The city would be a new start, but what do I expect to achieve from that new start? I think with all that has happened to me the past two years I might just be trying to "run away" from my " old life" rather then make the best of what I've got, and maybe in perspective might not really be that bad at all?



I think you're drawing the right conclusion. There's an old saying: "Better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big one. Good luck either way.


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## Chef Niloc (Dec 5, 2013)

Ok it done.
Looks like I'll be staying on Long Island as the Executive chef at the Shinacock Hills club.


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## Chuckles (Dec 5, 2013)

Congrats! It seems the hardest part is over already. 

And don't forget to post pics of your 'I gotta raise knife'. :doublethumbsup:


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## Von blewitt (Dec 5, 2013)

Congratulations Colin! 

How do you pronounce Shinacock?


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## Twistington (Dec 5, 2013)

Von blewitt said:


> Congratulations Colin!
> 
> How do you pronounce Shinacock?



Phew, thought I was the only one who giggled when I read that. 

Congrats btw!


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## Lefty (Dec 5, 2013)

Awesome, Colin! You fought your ego (we all have one, so that's not a knock) and went with stability and quality of life. Now, blow people's minds over at "The ****".


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## Keith Neal (Dec 5, 2013)

Congratulations, Colin. And best wishes for continued success.

This has been a very interesting discussion, particularly because it is a real situation rather than hypothetical.


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## jbl (Dec 5, 2013)

I think you went with your gut. If the Per Se gig was what you really wanted you wouldnt have hesitated for a second.

Its nice knowing youre at that standard, and it can be the cool thing of I turned them down!

All the best for the new place


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## Chef Niloc (Dec 5, 2013)

Shinacock (sha-in-a-****) hills golf club was the smarter move. After thinking about it a lot (with the help of you guys) I realized that although working for TKRG would have been a "new change" and the city move had its appeal, the golf club is the type of gig that I have been working towards for the past 15 years, I just wasn't seeing it at the time. Keller on a resume would opened up new doors, being the executive chef at the #4 golf club in the world will look pretty nice to on a resume and also open new doors. 
It's funny most of you guys were pushing for TK, and that's what I thought would happen, it what I needed to here. All my friends and family were saying things like:
"Your going to pass down a job like Shinacock to work 100 hr a week for what?"
"Man if you take the job can you get me on the course?
"Man I would love to work there"
"Can you get tickets to the World Cup"
I didn't really realize that Shinacock was such a high end "exclusive/ elitist" club, do you know what it costs to join these clubs, my jaw dropped when I found out there are crazy people out there that pay over 1/2 million just to play golf play golf yet alone join the club.
Anyway it's got great pay, good benefits, 4-5 10hr work days, and 6 weeks payed vacation, TK couldn't offer that.


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## Dave Martell (Dec 5, 2013)

Congrats on the new job Colin!


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## Crothcipt (Dec 5, 2013)

Wow, now that you explain the LI gig I would have taken it myself. Gratz sir.


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## Anton (Dec 5, 2013)

Great choice - Better lifestyle and your own time has a much higher value


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## Lucretia (Dec 5, 2013)

Congratulations and best of luck to you!


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## chinacats (Dec 5, 2013)

Dude, Shinnecock Hills is one badass place! Congratulations on your decision, I don't think you can find many restaurant jobs that will offer the lifestyle (work hours and pay) that you have found. As Chuckles said--please post pics of your new knife. 

Cheers


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## Johnny.B.Good (Dec 5, 2013)

All things considered, sounds like you made a wise and thoughtful decision.

Congratulations!


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## apicius9 (Dec 5, 2013)

Sounds a bit like having TK in your resume would open you the doors to jobs like the one you are getting now based on your own accomplishments, so that looks like a wise move. Congratulations!

Stefan


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## WildBoar (Dec 5, 2013)

I think you made a sound decision that will help with your quality of life and financial security. But I'm sad that we can't come visit you for a great meal now unless we plunk down a mil or two :groucho:


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## Jim (Dec 5, 2013)

Congratulations Colin,well played! (see what I did there!)


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## Lefty (Dec 5, 2013)

I still can't believe you're at Shinacock...you know I'm an avid golfer, right?


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## Justin0505 (Dec 5, 2013)

Dude! If anyone here knew that the "LI gig" was Shinacock, you probably would have got some different advice. The place looks pretty awesome and aside from being a perfectly fantastic place to stay for as long as you'd want, it could also open doors to other similar type experiences anywhere else in the country than sound much better financially and quality-of-life wise than the TK gig. 
If I was looking for financial stability I'd much rather work at a place where people line up to pay $750K for a membership or $2,500 for 1 round of golf at a non-member charity event, vs having to kill yourself every night to stay ahead of the trends and convince people to come back and spend another couple hundred bucks on dinner. 


Now, that the details of work / life are out of the way, it's time to re-focus on what really matters: that commemorative knife! Given the name of the new gig, I think that the type of knife is obvious: a bonner! Complete with walrus oosik handle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2XBALa0ehQ) and a whale penis leather sheath.


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## Mrmnms (Dec 5, 2013)

Smart move. May it last a long long time.


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## Chef Niloc (Dec 5, 2013)

Lefty said:


> I still can't believe you're at Shinacock...you know I'm an avid golfer, right?



Can you play in the dark and snow? Maybe if you get a set if night vision glasses?


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## Lefty (Dec 5, 2013)

I would...seriously, it wouldn't be the first time. Haha


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## GlassEye (Dec 5, 2013)

Sounds like a great gig, Congratulations.


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## GLE1952 (Dec 8, 2013)

Great to hear your getting a good break for a change, congrats!


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## SliceNDice (Dec 8, 2013)

I'll teach you a great way to make life decisions...

Sit back, relax, light a fatty.


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## Salty dog (Dec 9, 2013)

Somehow I knew you'd make that choice. Good move IMO.

and a club no less. 

As far as cooking after 50 goes? Only in spurts and those spurts are usually sprints. I can still smoke the 20 somethings. I mean like no-contest.


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## Von blewitt (Dec 9, 2013)

Salty dog said:


> As far as cooking after 50 goes? Only in spurts and those spurts are usually sprints. I can still smoke the 20 somethings. I mean like no-contest.



They don't make em like they used to !!!


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## tagheuer (Dec 9, 2013)

Congrats on the new gig. :happy3:

Some photos of the new place (if permitted) would be great !!!


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## Chef Niloc (Dec 10, 2013)

I don't start till the 1st of the year.
I quit my old job last night, hated that place.
I may have had to "pass" on per se but I couldn't "pass" on this:










I saw it only fitting


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## Chuckles (Dec 10, 2013)

BwHahahahahahaha! Your stock is going way up in my book! :doublethumbsup:


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## knyfeknerd (Dec 10, 2013)

Is this up for a passaround?


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## tagheuer (Dec 10, 2013)

:doublethumbsup: *+*:happy3:

Not too many people can make that kind of statement...


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## Chef Niloc (Dec 10, 2013)

You see as you know from reading this thread, " what would dad do" thing was heavily on my mind during the whole decision-making process. So on my way out I thought to myself yeah Scotty (my dad) would take that, he'd think it was cool to have.
I guess this is one step up from people taking spoons from restaurants?

The ironic part of this is the reason I wanted it. It's because it will remind me (thus giving me a tool to keep me in check) of the level of perfectionism and professionalism I witnessed during my short time there.


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## Lefty (Dec 10, 2013)

Colin, you just might be one of the coolest guys I know through an Internet forum.


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## WildBoar (Jan 22, 2014)

Ramsey's?


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## bahamaroot (Jan 22, 2014)

My cousin was the head chef of a premier french restaurant here in town for over a decade. He recently made a move similar to yours. He took a head chef job about three years ago at a local upper class country club because he decided to get married and had a child. He's 41yrs old. He's not making more money but he now is the boss and has a life too. He's been to more family functions in the last two years than the previous 15yrs. He called it a lateral move with benefits. 

Congratulations Colin and best wishes!


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## Chef Niloc (Jan 23, 2014)

WildBoar said:


> Ramsey's?



Country club contract started the first of the year but the club's not open till March. Ramsey's place was hiring and staffing for the holidays, and paying Union wages! Overtime+holiday pay+night differential adds up quick, cooks there make more then management, hell they make more than some doctors.


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## NO ChoP! (Jan 23, 2014)

There is a thing called "country club politics". It is a hard pill to swallow. You work in a tight kitchen that is well oiled. The hierarchy is apparent. Yet the management is young and plentiful. Your foh staff will be the most terrible you have ever encountered. There is no repercussions. It is a long, fat chain of command that ends in the HR department, and if you complain, you will become the problem. No more what chef says goes...

As I was told by a seasoned chef, focus on your box, perfect your box, anything on the outside will drive you mad...

Good luck!!!


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## longhorn (Jan 23, 2014)

Congratulations and best of luck to you!


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## stereo.pete (Jan 24, 2014)

NO ChoP! said:


> There is a thing called "country club politics". It is a hard pill to swallow. You work in a tight kitchen that is well oiled. The hierarchy is apparent. Yet the management is young and plentiful. Your foh staff will be the most terrible you have ever encountered. There is no repercussions. It is a long, fat chain of command that ends in the HR department, and if you complain, you will become the problem. No more what chef says goes...
> 
> As I was told by a seasoned chef, focus on your box, perfect your box, anything on the outside will drive you mad...
> 
> Good luck!!!



They also have a tendency to hire pretty young FOH, so look on the bright side.


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## bahamaroot (Jan 25, 2014)

stereo.pete said:


> They also have a tendency to hire pretty young FOH, so look on the bright side.


To get the dirty old men to dig deeper into their wallets. :spiteful:


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## Salty dog (Jan 25, 2014)

_*"As I was told by a seasoned chef, focus on your box, perfect your box, anything on the outside will drive you mad..."
*_

Aina hay!


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## quantumcloud509 (Jan 25, 2014)

Sorry to derail the thread - Saltydog, your inbox is full. Carry on country clubbers...


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