# How exactly do you apply pressure while sharpening?



## josemartinlopez (Jul 3, 2020)

One thing that still confuses me: How exactly do you apply pressure while sharpening? Is it from one hand or both, and does it change when pushing versus pulling?


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## Walla (Jul 3, 2020)

I'd suggest you look at a few of Peter Nowlan and Jon Broida's videos... they're pretty good at explaining that...

Take care

Jeff


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## Ruso (Jul 3, 2020)

Will depend on a technique. I use the push pull technique - the usual Japanese style.
So you apply the pressure with the hand that is on the blade (Left in my case), same hand that moves the blade up and down.
The other hand is to maintain the angle steady, but it does aid with back and forth movement a bit.
It is also recommended to apply more pressure on the edge trailing stroke and relax on edge leading. However, the latter is optional.

You should check Jon’s from JKI videos he touches on this topic few times.


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## VicWire (Jul 3, 2020)

I only apply pressure with two or three fingers placed on the blade and more edge trailing than edge leading. The other hand holds the knife by the handle, more or less, and controls the angle.
This is called push-pull technique and is what most experienced sharpeners recommend.


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## IsoJ (Jul 3, 2020)

Peter Nowlan explains pressure here pretty good.


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## josemartinlopez (Jul 3, 2020)

And if you see a YouTube video that seems to criticize a popular sharpening video and the YouTube video insist you need to apply pressure with both hands, you should disregard this? A chef friend pointed me to this YouTube video.


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## M1k3 (Jul 3, 2020)

One hand on the handle for angle control, the other hand putting pressure on the blade.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 3, 2020)

I like edge trailing sharpening most of the time. Pressure while trailing, no pressure while leading.


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## SeattleBen (Jul 3, 2020)

Hand on blade for pressure for me. Off hand does the scrubbing, also rolls for the tip.


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## Ruso (Jul 3, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> And if you see a YouTube video that seems to criticize a popular sharpening video and the YouTube video insist you need to apply pressure with both hands, you should disregard this? A chef friend pointed me to this YouTube video.



Depending who's video it is. Never the less, try both or more method and stick with the one that works. There is no one way of sharpening or inherently wrong way.


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## slickmamba (Jul 3, 2020)

apply pressure with the hand not holding the knife(non knife hand). If you are just learning and apply pressure with both you will more than likely end up with a small recurve near the heel due to unnecessary pressure there. Obviously when you're working on the heel you can apply some with your thumb/index, but be aware of how evenly you are applying it. 

Just watch the Japaneseknifeimports and the knifeplanet ones, disregard the rest. There are lots of sharpening methods that work, but just stick to those until you feel more comfortable to mix it up.


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## ian (Jul 3, 2020)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I like edge trailing sharpening most of the time. Pressure while trailing, no pressure while leading.



So, what is the point of this? I see this recommended a lot, but I don’t do it anymore. I find that if you’re constantly changing the amount of pressure you’re applying, it’s harder to maintain a consistent angle and consistent pressure (when you want the pressure). Plus, it’s slower. Is there any actual reason why it’s better to have the pressure on an edge trailing stroke?

Edit: On second thought, I may increase pressure automatically on edge trailing strokes, which are the “away from me” strokes, since my pressure isn’t directed straight down, but rather down and away, in a direction more perpendicular to the knife face. With this angle of pressure, it’s naturally easier to exert pressure on the edge trailing strokes. But when I sharpen, the change doesn’t seem so extreme. So many people talk about doing it consciously, though, which makes me think they’re using MUCH more pressure on trailing strokes. So, again, what’s the point? Trying to learn.


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## ian (Jul 3, 2020)

It also seems wrong to say that your blade hand is controlling all the back and forth movement, while your handle hand just holds the angle. I mean, when the blade is moving “toward you”, how exactly are your fingertips pulling the knife toward you? Are you an octopus? (I’m assuming the edge is facing you, which is how I always do it.)

And even on the “away from you” strokes, your handle hand is going to be very much a part of the back and forth. I guess if you push almost parallel to the stone you can get the knife to move just with your blade hand, using your other hand to keep the angle constant, but I imagine most people don’t push with that shallow an angle. I’d bet most of it is coming from your handle hand. Plus, you don’t want to be constantly trading off which hand you’re using for movement. That’s a straight line to inconsistency. And finally, some of the time you use light pressure when sharpening. There’s no way you’re moving your knife with your feather light blade hand pressure.


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## panda (Jul 4, 2020)

by constantly nagging at it and telling it to hurry up


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## M1k3 (Jul 4, 2020)

panda said:


> by constantly nagging at it and telling it to hurry up


That's what the girl of the sea said!


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## VicWire (Jul 4, 2020)

ian said:


> It also seems wrong to say that your blade hand is controlling all the back and forth movement, while your handle hand just holds the angle. I mean, when the blade is moving “toward you”, how exactly are your fingertips pulling the knife toward you? Are you an octopus? (I’m assuming the edge is facing you, which is how I always do it.)
> 
> And even on the “away from you” strokes, your handle hand is going to be very much a part of the back and forth. I guess if you push almost parallel to the stone you can get the knife to move just with your blade hand, using your other hand to keep the angle constant, but I imagine most people don’t push with that shallow an angle. I’d bet most of it is coming from your handle hand. Plus, you don’t want to be constantly trading off which hand you’re using for movement. That’s a straight line to inconsistency. And finally, some of the time you use light pressure when sharpening. There’s no way you’re moving your knife with your feather light blade hand pressure.



You're of course correct in that the knife holding hand does move the knife back and forth. A more correct description of the push-pull technique is that the holding hand only applies pressure horizontally ( and controls the angle), thus moving the knife. Any vertical pressure is coming from the fingers on the blade.

About pressure, I think it's good for a beginner to focus on pressure on the edge trailing motion, applying no or very light pressure on edge leading, to not gouge the stone. Yes, it will be slower, but mistakingly taking chips out of the stone, or knife, is not something you want to risk doing.
Once you get a little bit of experience, you're able to assert some pressure on edge leading as well.


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## bahamaroot (Jul 4, 2020)

I just keep a constant pressure on the knife in both directions, it's just easier to control your work that way with no ill effects. I think worrying about "should I put pressure on the knife pushing or pulling" is starting to overthink things.


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## kayman67 (Jul 4, 2020)

Not really when people start to turn the stone into a sculpture. There are some best practices in place because experience shows something in numbers.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 4, 2020)

ian said:


> So, what is the point of this? I see this recommended a lot, but I don’t do it anymore. I find that if you’re constantly changing the amount of pressure you’re applying, it’s harder to maintain a consistent angle and consistent pressure (when you want the pressure). Plus, it’s slower. Is there any actual reason why it’s better to have the pressure on an edge trailing stroke?
> 
> Edit: On second thought, I may increase pressure automatically on edge trailing strokes, which are the “away from me” strokes, since my pressure isn’t directed straight down, but rather down and away, in a direction more perpendicular to the knife face. With this angle of pressure, it’s naturally easier to exert pressure on the edge trailing strokes. But when I sharpen, the change doesn’t seem so extreme. So many people talk about doing it consciously, though, which makes me think they’re using MUCH more pressure on trailing strokes. So, again, what’s the point? Trying to learn.



The idea behind applying pressure while trailing is what make the stroke an edge trailing stroke. The abrasive should follow a spine to edge direction. I feel it creates a bigger burr, so it's easier to know when to flip (if you are those who flip), specially on higher grit stones. Besides, there's less risk to "sink" the edge into the stone since you are applying very little to no pressure when the blade is leading. Both methods work though. As for the difficulty to maintain a consistent angle and pressure, it's just a matter of practice. 

Some people like to use edge leading in order to remove the burr, but, in that case, you are using edge leading to abrade the burr, not to set the bevel. The best way to remove the burr in my experience, though, is to create a small burr from the start.


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## ian (Jul 4, 2020)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I feel it creates a bigger burr, so it's easier to know when to flip (if you are those who flip), specially on higher grit stones.



That’s a nice point. I don’t find that my edge leading strokes ever cut into the stone, but I guess if you’re looking for the most possible feedback, to make it so you remove the least amount of metal, having the burr be as big as possible could be helpful. But practically, it usually requires some real attention to not create a much of a burr (or to remove it) even when using edge leading strokes, so I’m not sure putting pressure on the edge leading strokes early in the sharpening will affect this much.


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## kayman67 (Jul 4, 2020)

It's more of a level kinda thing. You are like lvl99, you won't care about things like that. But who's asking?


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## Nemo (Jul 4, 2020)

Remember that steel is removed from immediately below where you apply pressure. Pressure near the edge removes steel near the edge. Pressure 1cm above the edge removes metal 1cm above the edge ("knocking the shoilders off"). Pressure 2cm above the edge removes steel 2cm above the edge (most serious thinning will occur in the first 1-3 cm behind the edge, depending on the knife).

Most sharpeners would apply more pressure on the edge trailing stroke, although there are arguments about edge leading strokes minimising the burr formation. My practice is to apply much more pressure edge trailing at first. I gradually reduce the edge trailing pressure as outlined by Pete Nowlan (@Sailor) in his Knifepalnet Sharpening School (watch it, as well as the JKI series if you haven't already. Watch it again if you have). Throughout this process, I am keeping very light edge leading pressure. In the final stage (P1 Pressure), the edge trailing pressure has reduced to the point where there is roughly equal edge pressure on edge leading and trailing strokes.


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## bahamaroot (Jul 5, 2020)

Rubbing steel on a rock....perspective.


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## demirtasem (Jul 5, 2020)

ian said:


> So, what is the point of this? I see this recommended a lot, but I don’t do it anymore. I find that if you’re constantly changing the amount of pressure you’re applying, it’s harder to maintain a consistent angle and consistent pressure (when you want the pressure). Plus, it’s slower. Is there any actual reason why it’s better to have the pressure on an edge trailing stroke?
> 
> Edit: On second thought, I may increase pressure automatically on edge trailing strokes, which are the “away from me” strokes, since my pressure isn’t directed straight down, but rather down and away, in a direction more perpendicular to the knife face. With this angle of pressure, it’s naturally easier to exert pressure on the edge trailing strokes. But when I sharpen, the change doesn’t seem so extreme. So many people talk about doing it consciously, though, which makes me think they’re using MUCH more pressure on trailing strokes. So, again, what’s the point? Trying to learn.




May I ask what is your way to sharpen your knives?


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## M1k3 (Jul 5, 2020)

Even pressure on push and pull.


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## ian (Jul 5, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> May I ask what is your way to sharpen your knives?



Now that's a personal question. 

What are you looking for? I think I said what I do with pressure in the post that you quoted. Probably a bit more pressure on edge trailing strokes because of body mechanics and because the pressure is exerted in that direction, not because I'm really concentrating on changing the pressure. I was kind of ornery when I wrote the last post... maybe my issue is I think "more pressure on edge trailing strokes" isn't a good pedagogical tool, since it makes you focus on something that you shouldn't, and overdo it.


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## Forty Ounce (Jul 5, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> And if you see a YouTube video that seems to criticize a popular sharpening video and the YouTube video insist you need to apply pressure with both hands, you should disregard this? A chef friend pointed me to this YouTube video.


If you're referring to burrfection.. you're gonna want to go ahead and forget everything you've learned from him.


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## demirtasem (Jul 5, 2020)

ian said:


> Now that's a personal question.
> 
> What are you looking for? I think I said what I do with pressure in the post that you quoted. Probably a bit more pressure on edge trailing strokes because of body mechanics and because the pressure is exerted in that direction, not because I'm really concentrating on changing the pressure. I was kind of ornery when I wrote the last post... maybe my issue is I think "more pressure on edge trailing strokes" isn't a good pedagogical tool, since it makes you focus on something that you shouldn't, and overdo it.




Actually I'm sorry I understand totally wrong. I thought you were talking about against in edge trailing motion in general and if there are any better way to sharpen I would like to know. But you were only talking about the pressure, that part I've missed. No harm intended.


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## Forty Ounce (Jul 5, 2020)

My advice would be to watch Jon's (JKI) YouTube videos.. and then practice, practice, and practice some more. As far as pressure goes.. try to let the stone do the work.. if you press too hard, you end up bending the knife and ruin your work.. too little and it takes longer. Start slow, work on maintaining a consistent angle.. speed will come with time.


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## Benuser (Jul 5, 2020)

If you need pressure to remove steel, better have a coarser stone, unless you're thinning far behind the edge. There are plenty videos of people using huge pressure, all very spectacular. Don't expect a stable 1 micron edge from that. Take your time, look at what you're doing, see where the abrasion is taking place, use a marker and a loupe.


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