# Disappointed from my knife Miyabi 600s



## Alexnoj (Jan 27, 2014)

I buy _my first knife_ last week for 110$ and I feel like the knife not worth the money, feel like a knife not enough sharp.
should I go and take my money back or give to the knife one more chance?


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## rdm_magic (Jan 27, 2014)

What aren't you happy about?


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## CoqaVin (Jan 27, 2014)

honestly I think you can get a better knife than a Miyabi for 110 where did you get it from?


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## Alexnoj (Jan 27, 2014)

I hoped that the knife will be more sharp.


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## Alexnoj (Jan 27, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> honestly I think you can get a better knife than a Miyabi for 110 where did you get it from?


from inporter of zwilling .
those are the prices in Israel.


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## CoqaVin (Jan 27, 2014)

what is the size on this?


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## Alexnoj (Jan 27, 2014)

^

8 inch


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## Timthebeaver (Jan 27, 2014)

return, buy a Carbonext from JCK and ask Koki to make sure it comes sharp for similar money. If you want a stainless get the Kagayaki basic.


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## CoqaVin (Jan 27, 2014)

hm so a 210mm pretty much can you return is still maybe JCK is a good spot for you since your in Isreal Japanesechefknives.com


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## NO ChoP! (Jan 27, 2014)

Hmm, if I remember correctly this is the Morimoto edition. I recall it being softish at 57hrc...probably a good candidate for frequent ceramic rodding. 

Knives ootb usually are less than stellar. Fresh steel should be exposed with an initial sharpening. Do you have a stone?


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## Alexnoj (Jan 27, 2014)

do you try the Miyabi 600s ? I want be sure that im not just petty.

by now i dont have a stone, ill buy one.


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## CoqaVin (Jan 27, 2014)

the king 1000/6000 or other combo not sure of the grit # is a good cheap starter stone


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## Alexnoj (Jan 27, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> the king 1000/6000 or other combo not sure of the grit # is a good cheap starter stone


+1
I've received recomendtion for this stone


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## Alexnoj (Jan 27, 2014)

I'd love more recommendations of knifvies for 100-160$ -


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## mkriggen (Jan 27, 2014)

My first "good" knife was a Miyabi 7000mc. I also was disapointed by the OOTB edge, but after I took it to the stones I was very impressed with the edge it took and it maintains it forever. I know the two knives are different steels but what I'm trying to say is don't judge it by the factory edge, judge it by the way it feels in hand and how it cuts after being properly sharpened. Many high quality knives come with little to no cutting edge, they leave it up to you to put the edge you want on them.

Be well,
Mikey


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## CoqaVin (Jan 27, 2014)

Alexnoj said:


> I'd love more recommendations of knifvies for 100-160$ -



Fujiwara FKM, Carbonext, Hiromoto AS, Misono Swedish, Geeshin Uraku all depends on what you need it for fill out the questionaire that is a sticky!


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## dough (Jan 27, 2014)

honestly they need a little thinning and sharpening but i dont think they are bad for the money... i also seen them at tj maxx for $20-$40 while i realize not in israel just sayin not a bad value.

imo get a stone way more important then knife choice these days. btw ill guarantee my myabi 6 is sharper then most any production ootb.


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## ThEoRy (Jan 27, 2014)

Yeah this is just a very soft stainless steel. You shouldn't be surprised by out of the box sharpness on almost any knife purchase though. They always leave much to be desired. Get your money back and use the questionnaire to help find you a suitable blade for your tastes.


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## jared08 (Jan 27, 2014)

My aunt bought one of these and I sharpened it and used it for a bit. Had to thin behind the edge and put prolly 20* per side but it performed decent. Not 110 $ worth


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## El Pescador (Jan 28, 2014)

I think you need to keep the knife and learn to sharpen.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 28, 2014)

El Pescador said:


> I think you need to keep the knife and learn to sharpen.



+1 get a stone develope your skills your knife will cut better.Good blade to learn on instead of a 200.00+ Japanese Gyuto.


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## Benuser (Jan 28, 2014)

I don't think it's a great idea to learn sharpening with a soft stainless. It has some peculiar issues that require techniques you won't use with other steel types. Better have a thin basic carbon steel for learning, as an Opinel "au carbone", or a simple Robert Herder.


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## CoqaVin (Jan 28, 2014)

agreed ben


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## El Pescador (Jan 28, 2014)

Benuser said:


> I don't think it's a great idea to learn sharpening with a soft stainless. It has some peculiar issues that require techniques you won't use with other steel types. Better have a thin basic carbon steel for learning, as an Opinel "au carbone", or a simple Robert Herder.




in the end, its ends up being his choice,but again he already owns the knife, so why not take advantage of it? This knife isn't European soft, just 57RHc. I do agree with you to a certain extent, but the advantage with a softer knife is that it is fairly easy to sharpen/ its fairly quick to see the results of you sharpening. I know plenty of people who started on softer steel and worked their way up to harder stuff. Another benefit is being able to practice thinning which is almost as important as sharpening. The only disadvantage is the "greasy" feel that is sharpening soft stainless on stones.


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## EdipisReks (Jan 28, 2014)

Benuser said:


> It has some peculiar issues that require techniques you won't use with other steel types.



I've never noticed in peculiar issues requiring special techniques, and I've sharpened a heck of a lot of them.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 28, 2014)

Benuser said:


> I don't think it's a great idea to learn sharpening with a soft stainless. It has some peculiar issues that require techniques you won't use with other steel types. Better have a thin basic carbon steel for learning, as an Opinel "au carbone", or a simple Robert Herder.



Benuser I agree that learning to sharpen on a basic carbon is best.I have sharpened quite a few 600 series at 57 they sharpen alot like forschners.It is not hard to raise a burr on either of these knives.

I have sharpened bottom of the line Mercer's fr. student culinary kits hrt 54 these don't sharpen anywhere near as well as the Miyabi 600's or Forschners.


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## Benuser (Jan 28, 2014)

Soft stainless has a high abrasion resistance and is problematic for its tenacious burrs and wire edges. For thinning and sharpening I use a coarse stone (J300) with an uncommon amount of pressure, and deburr on a 2k by abrading, no chasing. No stropping. I don't remove the 300 scratches, no usual progression.


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## Mitbud (Jan 28, 2014)

How about this http://www.leevalley.com/US/garden/page.aspx?cat=2,40733,40738&p=52770 to practice sharpening on?


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## Benuser (Jan 28, 2014)

Sounds great, basic 10xx carbon steel I guess.


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## EdipisReks (Jan 28, 2014)

Benuser said:


> Soft stainless has a high abrasion resistance and is problematic for its tenacious burrs and wire edges. For thinning and sharpening I use a coarse stone (J300) with an uncommon amount of pressure, and deburr on a 2k by abrading, no chasing. No stropping. I don't remove the 300 scratches, no usual progression.



None of that is a special technique.


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## ThEoRy (Jan 28, 2014)

Doesn't exactly translate well to sharpening harder Japanese knives though. It's a "different" technique, I don't recall the word "special" being used.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 28, 2014)

Sharpen alot of Henckels,Wunstorf,mostly Forchners,Miyabi,& Shuns.All are pretty dull.Some have damage like chips & tips.Some I thin on 1"X42"belt Kalamazo sander.Mostly thin on Xcoarse DMT or 140 Atoma plates.Then go 600 Atoma finish Medium stone.clean up burrs either wt. newspaper or leather loaded wt. Adams #2 polish.


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## WiscoNole (Jan 28, 2014)

how do you plan on returning a used knife?


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## El Pescador (Jan 28, 2014)

ThEoRy said:


> Doesn't exactly translate well to sharpening harder Japanese knives though. It's a "different" technique, I don't recall the word "special" being used.



The knife is at 57HRc. This should hold 12-15* per side easily. I would sharpen this knife like a sharpen my othe J-knives. I don't understand why you would treat this differently than anything else as a beginning sharpener. BTW, a regular stainless Konosuke is 58HRc if I remember correctly.

If the OP is looking for us help him manufacture an excuse to buy another knife I get it. I know there's a lot of people who learned to sharpen on knives worst that a Miyabi...


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## Benuser (Jan 28, 2014)

As far as I know the stainless Konosuke is not made of the good old German X50etc. that causes specific problems you don't want a novice to start with. That's why I suggested a cheap carbon practice knife like an Opinel or a simple Herder.


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## EdipisReks (Jan 28, 2014)

ThEoRy said:


> Doesn't exactly translate well to sharpening harder Japanese knives though. It's a "different" technique, I don't recall the word "special" being used.



Sure it does: you still need angle control and the ability to keep the edge evenly on the stone. Burr removal is basically the same process, too. Basic technique is basic technique.


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## ThEoRy (Jan 28, 2014)

El Pescador said:


> The knife is at 57HRc. This should hold 12-15* per side easily. I would sharpen this knife like a sharpen my othe J-knives. I don't understand why you would treat this differently than anything else as a beginning sharpener. BTW, a regular stainless Konosuke is 58HRc if I remember correctly.
> 
> If the OP is looking for us help him manufacture an excuse to buy another knife I get it. I know there's a lot of people who learned to sharpen on knives worst that a Miyabi...



You would sharpen this to a 12 degree angle up to 5-6k grit? Waste of time in my opinion.




EdipisReks said:


> Sure it does: you still need angle control and the ability to keep the edge evenly on the stone. Burr removal is basically the same process, too. Basic technique is basic technique.



I'm not disagreeing with you on this point. Obviously proper technique would help no matter what the steel or hrc or whatever. I'm just speaking to the differences at which I sharpen softer vs harder steels. On softer steels I stop at 1200 grit then drop back down and strop on 400-500 grit then felt. Doing this on harder steel knives doesn't make sense though since they can retain an edge at a higher level of refinement where I would progress up to 5k or higher depending on the knife. Two different techniques that do not translate well to sharpening differently hardened steels. I wouldn't do one to the other or the other to the one.


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## jai (Jan 28, 2014)

In my honest opinion who cares what you learn on as long as it doesent cause you to give up. Every knife is different some require slightly different techniques or progressions to reach there potential. Geeze I learnt to sharpen on camp knives and whustofs. And I belive that if I started learning how to sharpen carbon at the start it would of made me a bad at sharpening because its super easy to sharpen and small mistakes dont screw you up as much. If you learn on stainless when you buy a carbon knife you will be able to sharpen it easily. And also sharpening is about trial and error and learning. If already have a knife that is harder and takes more skill to sharpen why wouldent you practise on it. Im not trying to be a wanker just saying how I feel about the topic. I can get the shittest stainless knives shaving sharp. Yes they dont cut great because they often are clunky. If they are germans and and stuff. But the initial edge is still able to get really sharp and if you cant get it sharp you need to sit down and learn. Murray carter sharpened a pos knife on a cinder block and got ir shaving sharp. Technique, patience and learning from your mistakes is what makes a knife sharp not just carbon steel. Or better steel


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 28, 2014)

Jai cannot argue wt. anything you stated.Esp. going fr. carbon to stainless.However I like to start beginning sharpeners on good steel esp. carbon so they can see immediate results.This encourages them to continue & refine their tech.Start them with walmart stainless,& they may give up before even starting to learn.


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## EdipisReks (Jan 28, 2014)

ThEoRy said:


> Two different techniques that do not translate well to sharpening differently hardened steels.



This is not a technique difference, it is a tool selection difference. Nobody is saying that anybody should sharpen the soft and hard steel the same way, but abrading metal and removing burrs are techniques, and they certainly carry over, one to the other. Deciding what stones to use on a particular steel is not what I am talking about when I say that learning to sharpen this knife will help somebody sharpen other knives.


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## ThEoRy (Jan 28, 2014)

Semantics. The point is I don't use the same methods on different steels because what works for one doesn't work for the other. You know this.

How can you practice removing the previous scratch pattern if there is no need to? Properly removing a scratch pattern is part of the technique employed.


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## EdipisReks (Jan 28, 2014)

ThEoRy said:


> How can you practice removing the previous scratch pattern if there is no need to?



By doing it anyway. It's how I learned it. No need to polish the edge of a gyuto on a 15k stone, but it doesn't stop people from doing that, either.


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## ThEoRy (Jan 28, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> By doing it anyway. It's how I learned it. No need to polish the edge of a gyuto on a 15k stone, but it doesn't stop people from doing that, either.



Then when you use the knife and it doesn't work properly because you over polished it. What did you learn? How to improperly sharpen a knife. No thanks.


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## EdipisReks (Jan 29, 2014)

ThEoRy said:


> Then when you use the knife and it doesn't work properly because you over polished it. What did you learn? How to improperly sharpen a knife. No thanks.



:scratchhead: A Miyabi 600s with a high polished edge is going to work just fine at, you know, cuttin'. It's a piece of metal, not a incantation to summon Cthulhu.


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## Benuser (Jan 29, 2014)

A highly polished edge on that steel won't hold. With some soft stainless it might work, not with this X50etc.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jan 29, 2014)

Benuser said:


> A highly polished edge on that steel won't hold. With some soft stainless it might work, not with this X50etc.



I don't get it how level of polish correlates with edge retention. I'm assuming edge retention would depend on angles of sharpening and steel quality. What am I missing?


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## James (Jan 29, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> I don't get it how level of polish correlates with edge retention. I'm assuming edge retention would depend on angles of sharpening and steel quality. What am I missing?



I think the logic is that larger micro serrations will take longer to wear down than smaller ones


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## EdipisReks (Jan 29, 2014)

Benuser said:


> A highly polished edge on that steel won't hold. With some soft stainless it might work, not with this X50etc.



which means it will need to be sharpened again. Which is good practice for somebody learning sharpening. This has become very silly, I'm done with this thread.


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## Benuser (Jan 29, 2014)

This steel combines low scratch resistance and large carbides. Low scratch resistance is no problem on itself. You may high-polish French carbon. It's the combination with the large carbides that makes the high-polished edge so terribly weak.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 29, 2014)

Stainless blades in the high 50's wt. good HT can be sharpened many times in it's life.This is certainly true of Forschners.I never take these knives past a medium grit 1K-2K.


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## dough (Jan 29, 2014)

haha everyone atleast agrees get a stone and learn to sharpen. heck you dont even need a knife almost everyone i know has dull knives


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## Alexnoj (Jan 30, 2014)

WiscoNole said:


> how do you plan on returning a used knife?



The importer write on the check that i can return the knife if I will not satisfied with any reson.

also I ask the question becasue I feel like this knife not worth the 110$ and maybe i can buy someting better for this money.
but The way I understand from reading the reaplies, better ill buy stones for sharpening.


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## Alexnoj (Jan 30, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> Fujiwara FKM, Carbonext, Hiromoto AS, Misono Swedish, Geeshin Uraku all depends on what you need it for fill out the questionaire that is a sticky!




LOCATION
What country are you in? 
*Israel*



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
*chef knife *

Are you right or left handed?
*Right*

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
*Japanese*

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
*8 inch*

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
*dont have to be stainless *

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
*150$ include shipping*


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
*For home using*

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., *slicing vegetables*, *chopping vegetables*, *mincing vegetables*, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
*by now i have Miyabi 600s*

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
*The grip of miyabi 600S very good for me *

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
*good shape out of the box*

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
*bamboo board*

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
*Ill*

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
*yes*

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
*yes*


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS


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## ThEoRy (Jan 30, 2014)

Gesshin uraku 210mm wagyuto.


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## EdipisReks (Jan 30, 2014)

Tojiro DP is still a good choice in the budget price range.


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## Alexnoj (Mar 22, 2014)

I got my Tojiro DP last week+stone.Im very satisfied!


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## berko (Mar 23, 2014)

i like dp as well.


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## RobinW (Mar 23, 2014)

I seem to recall we had a passaround of a Miyabi Morimoto a while back, a 270 gyuto. I also recall it was a bit thick behind the edge...


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## Alexnoj (Mar 25, 2014)

The stone come with small broken piece. its ok?

http://s29.postimg.org/fzh6sgp52/BROKEN_STONE.jpg


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## Benuser (Mar 25, 2014)

Alexnoj said:


> The stone come with small broken piece. its ok?
> 
> http://s29.postimg.org/fzh6sgp52/BROKEN_STONE.jpg



Not OK, but I wouldn't send it back with all the fuss involved -- shipping costs, customs again...


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## EdipisReks (Mar 25, 2014)

Alexnoj said:


> The stone come with small broken piece. its ok?
> 
> http://s29.postimg.org/fzh6sgp52/BROKEN_STONE.jpg



You'll need to chamfer the edges as you use the stone, and that's not a big deal at all.


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## Alexnoj (Mar 28, 2014)

I shipped to him the stone back, The seller will send to me new one. 

Thanks


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