# Doi on naturals



## Badgertooth (Aug 12, 2016)

A neaaaaarly full progression of naturals except for a King 800

Followed by:

Numata hyotan - left scratches on cladding but fairly uniform 

Thai binsu with monzento slurry - amazing sharpening feel and very nice contrasted finish

Khao men - loses a bit of contrast and tugs a little

Maruoyama shiro suita - best contrast of the naturals, smooth feel too. Motion can shudder a bit if mud consistency isn't managed. Lovely uniform finish somewhere between a polish and a sandblasting.

Oohira aka renge suita - polish improves. Loses contrast and consistency of finish as stone is harder with less mud.

Learnings:

Stop
Cosmetic sharpening at maruoyama, skip numata and Khao men. Do final edge-pressure and ura sharpening on nakayama.

https://youtu.be/p_Lnrxsh_vQ


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## Badgertooth (Aug 12, 2016)

Finish blended with fingerstones


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## YG420 (Aug 12, 2016)

Nice job and love that contrast!


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## Krassi (Aug 12, 2016)

WoW! looks awesome! very cool finish on that awesome knife!

and your stone setup and advices are interesting.. 
i will get the T-nats soon with a grey binsu and also 2 sick razor finisher mystery jnats.. my doi also needs some full power too.. i love that aogami steel on my doi 

and its the godfather of sashimi.. used it yesterday.. had some jns 1k ,jns red aoto, jns 6k, ohira aka renge suita and ohira ao renge (show-sharpening in front of the guests that looked a bit confused first)... i will experiment with the new stuff too especially binsus and khao men and also should try my Maruoyama shiro suita again .. 

best regards and thanks for the cool useful infos , daniel !


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## jaknil (Aug 12, 2016)

I feel that the Khao Men is not at it´s best with a 52100 steel. Its much better with a carbon. 
Especially the white steel is nice on this stone.


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## XooMG (Aug 12, 2016)

jaknil said:


> I feel that the Khao Men is not at it´s best with a 52100 steel. Its much better with a carbon.
> Especially the white steel is nice on this stone.


52100 is low alloy carbon steel.


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## mikedtran (Aug 12, 2016)

Which Nakayama are you using? I might have missed it but don't see it besides mentioned in the last couple lines.

Also how long in all did you spend on this? =)


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## Badgertooth (Aug 12, 2016)

mikedtran said:


> Which Nakayama are you using? I might have missed it but don't see it besides mentioned in the last couple lines.
> 
> Also how long in all did you spend on this? =)



Not much get past you Mikey. The video stops after Oohira aka renge. Then I tested the edge then I decided to finish on the nakayama. Nakayama put that holy sh*t edge on fingerstones blend everything together


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## mikedtran (Aug 12, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> Not much get past you Mikey. The video stops after Oohira aka renge. Then I tested the edge then I decided to finish on the nakayama. Nakayama put that holy sh*t edge on fingerstones blend everything together



I have also found fingerstones really a must. I have a finger stone that looks like an uchigmori suita (grey with the purple speckling) that I absolutely love (need to find more).

How long would you say you usually spend polishing in all? Trying to figure out if I'm rushing things only spending about maybe 5-10 minutes per stone at most.

Your finish looks great!!!


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## Badgertooth (Aug 12, 2016)

I decided to spend much longer after reading So Yamashita's article where he spends hours per stone refinishing. All up, nearly 3 hours I think


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## Marcelo Amaral (Aug 12, 2016)

Hi Badger, which article is that? Can you post a link to it?


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## brainsausage (Aug 12, 2016)

Can I send you my Doi?


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## Badgertooth (Aug 12, 2016)

Here's the link for everyone. Very informative though it would be awesome to get a little taster of some of Iizuka san's trade secrets which are understandably withheld.


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## Badgertooth (Aug 12, 2016)

brainsausage said:


> Can I send you my Doi?



Sure. I don't think you can ever handle enough Dois.


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## bennyprofane (Aug 12, 2016)

Where is the link? I can't see it.


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## Badgertooth (Aug 12, 2016)

Sorry, brainfart. Here it is:

http://www.japan-tool.com/hamono/Knife_Polishing/Knife_Polishing.html


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## ynot1985 (Aug 13, 2016)

Thanks for the info OTTO. What kind of nakayama did you use? I'm going to pick up my Doi Hyate next month so I'm glad I saw this so I can plan what stones to buy


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## Badgertooth (Aug 13, 2016)

Hey Tony.

It's the stone in this post. 

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=27041

I'm actually glad I found the photo that still has the kanji because that's about all the info I have on it apart from how it sharpens. It's skinny and will need fixing to a base when I get to it. Needs just a few drops to get things moving at which point it's a metal eater considering how fine it is. If you overshoot the initial amount of water glassy wet hone. It's not muddy enough to roll up into any lows on the jigane but will mirror polish the hagane and is just what you need for a crisp ura.

If I was redoing yesterday's progression it'd be

King 800
Thai binsu with aoto slurry
Thai binsu with monzento slurry
Maruoyama for longer than I used it yesterday
Nakayama


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## ynot1985 (Aug 13, 2016)

Thanks Otto

rakuten, who is that trusted seller you went with?

and the maruoyama too?


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## Badgertooth (Aug 13, 2016)

Hey Tony, Hamono Furuta with a Tenso forwarding service. And Watanabe for the maruoyama.


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## Dave Martell (Aug 13, 2016)

That looks awesome!


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## Sharpchef (Aug 13, 2016)

Well Done Otto!

I am happy that my Doi is now in good hands!

You can try the frankonian too, for that work, you will be surprised!

Greets Sebastian.


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## Badgertooth (Aug 13, 2016)

That Franconian slate is special stuff!! Truly sharp edges. I will fix it to a base and try it on the Doi. I got a bit carried away and sharpened everything I owned on the Franconian.


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## Badgertooth (Aug 13, 2016)

Dave Martell said:


> That looks awesome!



Thanks Dave!


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## Badgertooth (Aug 13, 2016)

Tightened up the mirror polish and gave his little brother a shortened cheat version of the full spa with perfectly acceptable results. 





Aoto slurry on binsu
WA powder on binsu
Uchi slurry on binsu

20 minutes instead of 2 hours and here's a depth missing to the finish that is apparent on the takobiki but hard to convey on a crappy iPhone picture but it's more acceptable as a quick fix


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## XooMG (Aug 14, 2016)

Cheater!

I have actually considered using one side of one of my binsui as a coarse base for JNS300/800 slurry, and the other side as a base for tenjo and hakka slurry. I recently took hakka on binsui immediately after JNS800, and it was surprisingly clean. I am not 100% satisfied with it, but there seems to be some potential.


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## Badgertooth (Aug 14, 2016)

XooMG said:


> Cheater!
> 
> I have actually considered using one side of one of my binsui as a coarse base for JNS300/800 slurry, and the other side as a base for tenjo and hakka slurry. I recently took hakka on binsui immediately after JNS800, and it was surprisingly clean. I am not 100% satisfied with it, but there seems to be some potential.



Yeah, that's actually not a bad call. That binsu is burnishing up and smoothing over a lot like you mentioned but I think that might actually aid the polishing which i wouldn't want to lose. But I do like the idea of flipping it over and have a side that can be lapped to hell and used with coarser slurry.

You and Krassi also tempting me toward a JNS medium stone set which sounds like it's good for cosmetic work.


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## Doug (Aug 14, 2016)

Not clear on how you guys are creating slurries. Are you using a diamond plate on the donor stones, then transferring the slurry to the binsui or lapping the stone like a nagura on the binsui?


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## Badgertooth (Aug 14, 2016)

Doug said:


> Not clear on how you guys are creating slurries. Are you using a diamond plate on the donor stones, then transferring the slurry to the binsui or lapping the stone like a nagura on the binsui?



Using the donor stones as enormous naguras.


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## XooMG (Aug 14, 2016)

Same...my slurry donors are soft muddies...I like how applying them as big nagura allows even wear over the surface without dishing.

On the 800 thing, I have a King 800 that I broke and have a big piece I can use as nagura if I soak it, and it works pretty well. I don't know how effective a coarser stone would be, so it could well be a bad idea.


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## foody518 (Aug 14, 2016)

Would you mind taking a picture next time you do a 'nagura' rub on the Thai binsu? Trying to get an understanding of how much slurry needs to be on the hard base stone to prevent scratching and have the polishing effect


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## XooMG (Aug 14, 2016)

[comment deleted]


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## Badgertooth (Aug 15, 2016)

foody518 said:


> Would you mind taking a picture next time you do a 'nagura' rub on the Thai binsu? Trying to get an understanding of how much slurry needs to be on the hard base stone to prevent scratching and have the polishing effect



Here's a video to give you an idea. I was sharpening at the edge for this so I used a little less slurry. Use more if you are on the bevel. And do excuse my crappy southpaw reverse side sharpening. I'm just slightly less horrible at that method than the more orthodox method.

https://youtu.be/l62ECivm56A


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## foody518 (Aug 16, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> Here's a video to give you an idea. I was sharpening at the edge for this so I used a little less slurry. Use more if you are on the bevel. And do excuse my crappy southpaw reverse side sharpening. I'm just slightly less horrible at that method than the more orthodox method.
> 
> https://youtu.be/l62ECivm56A



Thanks! Highly appreciated
Reverse side sharpening - so long as it works for you and gets the desired level of results  I've recently tried switching to be a flipper to have that dominant side sharpening motion on each side...it's going as quickly as my useless hand can learn to hold an angle, but I think soon to be better than where I left off trying to make the more standard method&angle of approach work


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