# Stainless clad carbon gyuto recommendations



## chiffonodd (May 3, 2015)

Curious to see folks' recommendations for a knife meeting the following criteria . . . 

LOCATION

What country are you in?

*USA*

KNIFE TYPE

What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

*Gyuto *

Are you right or left handed?

*Right handed*

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

*Wa handle octagon (not D)* 

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

*240 mm*

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

*Carbon with stainless cladding*.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

*$350 ish*

KNIFE USE

Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

*Home cook*

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

*- Slicing/dicing/chopping veggies (including root veggies)
- mincing or chopping garlic, ginger, chilies 
- mincing or chopping herbs
- citrus (lime mostly) 
- tomatoes 
- some slicing of proteins, but not breaking anything down -- more like portioning, or for example slicing protein for a stir fry or fajitas. I have a tojiro DP honesuki for breaking down chicken so would not use the gyuto for that.*

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

*Not replacing -- adding. Currently using mainly a gesshin ginga gyuto 240 w#2. I'll break out my mac pro if the dish involves a lot of acidic ingredients or if i'll be mincing garlic or something on a poly board at someone else's house.*

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

*Pinch grip*

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

*Push cut mostly. Will two hand rock if mincing garlic or herbs but that's about it for that motion.*

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

*Not looking for something "better," just looking to add another experience. Something that I can use with more acidic dishes with less concern -- hence the stainless cladding. Would be interested in trying something with more convexity, so probably a little thicker at the spine to accommodate. Want it to be really thin behind the edge though, of course  I am not too worried about edge retention because I use it at home and not for 8 hour prep sessions and because I enjoy sharpening. I am perfectly happy with the edge retention of my W#2 ginga, but I am certainly not opposed to trying something in aogami. 

Mainly I'm looking for something that's going to be a joy to use, as is the ginga, but in a different way.*

KNIFE MAINTENANCE

Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

*Yes - end grain walnut* 

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

*Yes on waterstones*

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

*N/A*

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

*N/A*

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

*Flatter profile = better.*

*Also this is going to be the main limiting factor it seems but I do NOT want something with a kurouchi finish. Don't want hammered or nashiji either.*

So far I'm looking at the Gesshin Gengetsu which seems to meet all the above criteria. I've also found some knives that meet some or most of them, like the itinomonn "Stain-less" kasumi . . . but I am not crazy about the D handle and was really looking for carbon rather than semi-stainless. 

What else is out there? Thanks gurus!


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## James (May 3, 2015)

There's also a v2 carbon steel Itinomonn. Gengetsu is great; I'd also have a look at Kochi if you're ok with a kurouchi finish.


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## chiffonodd (May 3, 2015)

James said:


> There's also a v2 carbon steel Itinomonn. Gengetsu is great; I'd also have a look at Kochi if you're ok with a kurouchi finish.



This one? http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kasumi-240mm-wa-gyuto/

Definitely looks like a contender, plus an excuse for a custom handle ugh . . .

Kochi looks like it has sick geometry, just awesome. I just don't like kurouchi! My loss I guess ardon:


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## daveb (May 3, 2015)

Yoshikane makes (made? a stainless clad SKD that I rate up there w Gengetsu. Well almost. Maksim sold a bunch of them and I've not seen them anywhere since. EE now has a Yoshi stainless/SKD with a hammered finish that I've not tried.


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## Von blewitt (May 3, 2015)

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/santokuknife.htm

It's $100 over your budget but Watanabe has a couple of stainless clad blue#2 knives on his specials page. I own 2 of them and they really are great knives, and they tick all your boxes.


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## Pensacola Tiger (May 3, 2015)

chiffonodd said:


> This one? http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kasumi-240mm-wa-gyuto/
> 
> Definitely looks like a contender, plus an excuse for a custom handle ugh . . .
> 
> Kochi looks like it has sick geometry, just awesome. I just don't like kurouchi! My loss I guess ardon:



You'll find there is a great difference between a kurouchi finish on soft iron and that on stainless. There is no flaking, and the surface on the Kochi is burnished, not rough

[


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## chiffonodd (May 3, 2015)

Huw that keyaki handled blue 240 looks very interesting indeed ... tall, really nice flat profile, just enough curve towards the tip . . . I just may have to up my budget :surrendar:


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## chiffonodd (May 3, 2015)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> You'll find there is a great difference between a kurouchi finish on soft iron and that on stainless. There is no flaking, and the surface on the Kochi is burnished, not rough
> 
> [



Great pic! Very informative thanks


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## chiffonodd (May 4, 2015)

daveb said:


> Yoshikane makes (made? a stainless clad SKD that I rate up there w Gengetsu. Well almost. Maksim sold a bunch of them and I've not seen them anywhere since. EE now has a Yoshi stainless/SKD with a hammered finish that I've not tried.



Dave I think I saw you posted a gengetsu the other day? Or maybe I was browsing old new knife gallery posts. Do you use it a lot? How would you compare it to the kochi, itinomonn, and watanabe mentioned here?


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## Timthebeaver (May 4, 2015)

Gengetsu are nearly always out of stock (according to the JKI website), the Yoshikane SKD kasumi is basically unavailable now, due to the changes at Yoshikane. Try BST, someone may have one they be willing to part with. My Maksim/Yoshikane SKD kasumi is the best knife I have ever used.


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## chiffonodd (May 4, 2015)

Timthebeaver said:


> Gengetsu are nearly always out of stock (according to the JKI website), the Yoshikane SKD kasumi is basically unavailable now, due to the changes at Yoshikane. Try BST, someone may have one they be willing to part with. My Maksim/Yoshikane SKD kasumi is the best knife I have ever used.



Pics pls! :begging:


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## Timthebeaver (May 4, 2015)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...rrent-favorite?p=338628&viewfull=1#post338628


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## daveb (May 5, 2015)

chiffonodd said:


> Pics pls! :begging:





Pair of Yoshi, stainless/SKD. 240 Western and 210 Wa. Handles by Dan (?) and Mike Henry respectively. Any of the smart guys know why the Kanji is different on the two?


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## mise_en_place (May 5, 2015)

^^ really nice


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## chiffonodd (May 5, 2015)

daveb said:


> Pair of Yoshi, stainless/SKD. 240 Western and 210 Wa. Handles by Dan (?) and Mike Henry respectively. Any of the smart guys know why the Kanji is different on the two?



Really like the profile. Especially on the 210. What's the geometry on those knives like?


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## daveb (May 5, 2015)

Very sweet. I buy the large carrots at a local Asian market and cut them into rounds for dog cookies. No split, no noise, glides thru them like cukes. 

Did try some thinning behind edge on 210 and scuffed hell out of it. I punted to Jon when my efforts were only making things worse. He did what Jon does and it's better than ever.

Will be to wrapped for any choil shots till the weekend.


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## chiffonodd (May 6, 2015)

daveb said:


> Very sweet. I buy the large carrots at a local Asian market and cut them into rounds for dog cookies. No split, no noise, glides thru them like cukes.
> 
> Did try some thinning behind edge on 210 and scuffed hell out of it. I punted to Jon when my efforts were only making things worse. He did what Jon does and it's better than ever.
> 
> Will be to wrapped for any choil shots till the weekend.



As if I needed another reason to look forward to the weekend!


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## Pensacola Tiger (May 6, 2015)

daveb said:


> Pair of Yoshi, stainless/SKD. 240 Western and 210 Wa. Handles by Dan (?) and Mike Henry respectively. Any of the smart guys know why the Kanji is different on the two?



Dave, 

Did you get that Western from me?

Rick


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## daveb (May 6, 2015)

I think so. If I'm mistaken about it being Yoshi or Dan handle pls correct me.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 6, 2015)

Japan Woodworker has the Yoshikane hammer finish SKD die steel clad with 405 stainless. Hrc 64-65. Charred Chestnut handle. 240mm 290.00


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## Pensacola Tiger (May 6, 2015)

daveb said:


> I think so. If I'm mistaken about it being Yoshi or Dan handle pls correct me.



It's a Zensho-Yoshikane, at least that's what Maksim called it when he sold it. The distinction is not clear to me, as Maksim also refers to it just as a "Yoshikane" in this thread: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/9256-Custom-Western-Ysohikane That's probably why the kanji is different. Whatever you call it, it is, as you say, an excellent cutter.

Here's a shot of the geometry until you can post more:


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## daveb (May 6, 2015)

Thanks Rick, That's a better pic than I'll ever take and presents the current geometry well. I ordered the Wa Yoshikane directly from Maxim and if I recall correctly those were prefaced with Zensho as well.


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## chiffonodd (May 6, 2015)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> It's a Zensho-Yoshikane, at least that's what Maksim called it when he sold it. The distinction is not clear to me, as Maksim also refers to it just as a "Yoshikane" in this thread: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/9256-Custom-Western-Ysohikane That's probably why the kanji is different. Whatever you call it, it is, as you say, an excellent cutter.
> 
> Here's a shot of the geometry until you can post more:
> 
> View attachment 27458



Is that like a (reverse?) S grind or just a convex grind that gets crazy thin? Either way looks like an amazing cutter.


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## Timthebeaver (May 6, 2015)

daveb said:


> Thanks Rick, That's a better pic than I'll ever take and presents the current geometry well. I ordered the Wa Yoshikane directly from Maxim and if I recall correctly those were prefaced with Zensho as well.



That's true - my 240 wa gyuto is/was a Zensho. I believe Zensho was a brand of Maxim - he offered other knives (made by Toyama) under this name too. It has the same geometry as the western above, but it's just a little thinner. This is true for the SKD hammered knives too, iirc.


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## lechef (May 8, 2015)

+1 on this, looking for a nice clad knife. In my new work I can't bring my Katos, the others chefs are so crazy and throwing things around.

Gengetsu and Yoshikane SKD is hard to find yes...

What about JKI Kagekiyo Santoku, anyone tried it? Or other tips, I need a 21cm guyoto, no more than 200$.... Maybe Itinomonn from Maksim, they are good...


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## chiffonodd (May 31, 2015)

Von blewitt said:


> http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/santokuknife.htm
> 
> It's $100 over your budget but Watanabe has a couple of stainless clad blue#2 knives on his specials page. I own 2 of them and they really are great knives, and they tick all your boxes.



Huw . . . reviving an old thread here. Do you have any pics of your watanabe stainless clad specials? I can get a sense of the profile and height from his website, but can't really tell anything about the geometry. If no pics, how would you describe them? 

Thanks!


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## aboynamedsuita (May 31, 2015)

chiffonodd said:


> Huw . . . reviving an old thread here. Do you have any pics of your watanabe stainless clad specials? I can get a sense of the profile and height from his website, but can't really tell anything about the geometry. If no pics, how would you describe them?
> 
> Thanks!



Here's a link to one in the newest knife bu*y* thread http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7655-Show-your-newest-knife-buy?p=348746#post348746


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