# Need a Durable, Workhorse Gyuto for Daily Use.



## Canis (Dec 1, 2017)

LOCATION
*United States
*

KNIFE TYPE
*Gyuto (Though i've heard of some using a Funayuki for all-arounder even though i've heard it's not ideal to western kitchen daily use)*

Are you right or left handed?
*Right*

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
*I only have experience with Yo handles but am very much interested in a Wa knife now. Custom handles are an option down the road if it comes with a stinker.*

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 
*210 mm to 240 mm. More of a hard cap at 240-ish as i'm a home cook and never found a need for anything over 9".
*
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
*Nope. Id probably prefer a White #1 or #2 blade to most... though for the right knife/price i'm flexible on steel.*

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
*$125 - a few dollars over wont kill me if necessary.*



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
*Home only*

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for?
*Daily veggie prep. Wife and I cook ahead for the week in batches and consume a load of everything from carrots and potatoes to Brussels sprouts and beets. We also go through a good amount of chicken breasts and the occasional pork loin or shoulder as I fire up the smoker at least once a month.*

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
*Adding. Need a good 1st Japanese workhorse of a knife.
*
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
*Pinch 95% of the time and Point 5% of the time for precision slices.*

What cutting motions do you primarily use? 
*Push-cut/thrust-cut, Rock and Chop, chop, slice*

What improvements do you want from your current knife?
*I'd like better quality steel... to more easily sharpen, hold a better edge for longer and overall be a more pleasurable experience.*

Better aesthetics?
*I don't need/want a flashy, polished finish... rustic kuro-uchi finish is perfectly acceptable to me. Heck, i'd prefer to see some imperfections due to a handmade process. *

Comfort?
*A rounded spine and choil is a MUST for me with my high pinch-grip. This is something I can likely accomplish myself with tools/sandpaper at home. Not a deal breaker if the knife has a sharp spine.*

Ease of Use? Edge Retention ?
*Id prefer something easy to sharpen that takes a great edge vs hard to sharpen with longer edge retention. That said, i dont want the knife to go dull after two sessions. *



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? *Mostly synthetic (plastic) but will also be picking up (or making) some wood boards soon.*

Do you sharpen your own knives? *Yes. I own a 1000 stone and a 6000 stone. I'm a novice but can put on a decently consistent edge.*

OVERALL
*To sum things up: I'm looking for a durable Gyuto that doesn't need to be super thin behind the edge or an absolute laser. I need it to be durable and not prone to chipping and be able to get nice and sharp easily on the stones. I'm not looking for anything fancy with intricate polishes; however, i do ultimately want a nice rounded spine and choil and something other than the white pakkawood handle. The rounding and handle could be accomplished later via modifying, but a knife coming from the factory with one or the other would be great.

Thanks all!*


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## Lazarus (Dec 1, 2017)

Hm your price point is hard for me to nail one down for you. JKI has a 270 Kanetsune that's pretty close to your price point and it's a beast of a SS knife. 
If you are are flexible ish on price, the Munetoshi Gyuto's on JNS are damn near unkillable but they aren't very pretty, and I wouldn't rock chop with one either.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Dec 1, 2017)

Given your budget, the best recommdation I can make is the Gesshin Uraku 210 mm kurouchi wa-gyuto from JKI. It's $20 more than your target.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...gesshin-uraku-210mm-white-2-kurouchi-wa-gyuto


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## Godslayer (Dec 1, 2017)

https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...-steel-series-gyuto-knife?variant=29319400195 

A smidge over budget but it's a beautiful well made carbon steel knife, hrc of 60, so it's a little more forgiving, takes a great edge, has a dragon engraving(super bad ass) a solid westren handle, mines a smidge over half a pound, so it has some weight behind it and it seems to do everything well, its on sale now for 145 and is worth every penny, TBH I think it should be a 225-250 but who am I to complain. 

[video=youtube;85uIvj7mjYw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85uIvj7mjYw[/video]

is a review, I apologize for using the devils marketing.

FWIW mine is 52mm tall, maybe ask koki for a tall vs short one


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 1, 2017)

The Uraku mentioned above is carbon Kurouchi. The right biased grind will cut well for you. White steel gets very sharp on the stones. Full carbon blades take a little extra care, main thing dry completely after finish. Quality handle on it. Not too long looks good on 210mm.

Another is Gihei Blue #2 core, Stainless clad nashiji. 210mm Thick spine comfortable after rounding the edge. Also has a right hand grind.


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## pleue (Dec 1, 2017)

Not really in fashion but you may look into a zakuri if you can find one, right square in your budget. Something from Tanaka would also be a good choice.


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## Canis (Dec 1, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Given your budget, the best recommdation I can make is the Gesshin Uraku 210 mm kurouchi wa-gyuto from JKI. It's $20 more than your target.
> 
> https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...gesshin-uraku-210mm-white-2-kurouchi-wa-gyuto
> 
> I've been looking at all the appropriate Gyuto over at JKI and the Uraku is def in my list... At the very top with the price though. Are there any comparable a little less expensive? (Even though $145 is pretty inexpensive for what it is)





Godslayer said:


> https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...-steel-series-gyuto-knife?variant=29319400195
> 
> A smidge over budget but it's a beautiful well made carbon steel knife, hrc of 60, so it's a little more forgiving, takes a great edge, has a dragon engraving(super bad ass) a solid westren handle, mines a smidge over half a pound, so it has some weight behind it and it seems to do everything well, its on sale now for 145 and is worth every penny, TBH I think it should be a 225-250 but who am I to complain.
> 
> ...



Another knife I've looked at... Personally the engraving is a little tacky for me and I'd prefer to get into the Wall handle blades now. 

Thanks for the suggestion though!




keithsaltydog said:


> The Uraku mentioned above is carbon Kurouchi. The right biased grind will cut well for you. White steel gets very sharp on the stones. Full carbon blades take a little extra care, main thing dry completely after finish. Quality handle on it. Not too long looks good on 210mm.
> 
> Another is Gihei Blue #2 core, Stainless clad nashiji. 210mm Thick spine comfortable after rounding the edge. Also has a right hand grind.



I'm no stranger to carbon cookware and pocket knives so a full carbon kitchen knife is right up my alley! Ill check out this Gihei.




pleue said:


> Not really in fashion but you may look into a zakuri if you can find one, right square in your budget. Something from Tanaka would also be a good choice.



What is this "zakuri" you mention? Also I've checked out the Tanaka's but have been recommended some others above them... Such as the one below.




All: I was recommended a Yamashin White #1 215 Gyuto that looks pretty beefy and rustic with the kurouchi and the Walnut handle. It's only $99 but I understand it might need some tinkering to up the comfort and improve the grind. I've heard it's not as thin but more durable than the Tanaka's... And that cleaned up it's pretty nice for the price.

Any thoughts on the Yamashin compared to the ones mentioned here in this thread?


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## K813zra (Dec 1, 2017)

Canis said:


> Another knife I've looked at... Personally the engraving is a little tacky for me and I'd prefer to get into the Wall handle blades now.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion though!
> 
> ...



You can get the misono without the dragon. I agree that it is a hell of a workhorse. One knife I will never give up. But I understand the wa sentiment.


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## Ivang (Dec 1, 2017)

tanakas are great, if you get an average one it will be a very good knife, if you get a really good one, it will be one of the best knives you can buy, at any price point. specially if you take the time to upgrade it a little


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## shownomarci (Dec 1, 2017)

Many of us wouldn't recommend Tojiro in here because of the poor fit and finish, but i do. Have quite a few and to be honest i look for price and performance, don't give a toss about looks.
Tojiro DP-s hold their edge quite well (sharpening is a PITA sometimes, but you have stones, so shouldn't really be a problem), Tojiro ITK-s are the worst J-knives you can buy according to some, but i bought a santoku 3-4 years ago and love it (shirogami #2 core steel, few passes on a stone and you're good to go).
If you want even better edge retention, then go for aogami (blue steel) core knives, like the JCK kagayaki blue#2 clad gyutos are within your budget or JCK natures blue moon series.


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## K813zra (Dec 1, 2017)

shownomarci said:


> Many of us wouldn't recommend Tojiro in here because of the poor fit and finish, but i do. Have quite a few and to be honest i look for price and performance, don't give a toss about looks.
> Tojiro DP-s hold their edge quite well (sharpening is a PITA sometimes, but you have stones, so shouldn't really be a problem), Tojiro ITK-s are the worst J-knives you can buy according to some, but i bought a santoku 3-4 years ago and love it (shirogami #2 core steel, few passes on a stone and you're good to go).
> If you want even better edge retention, then go for aogami (blue steel) core knives, like the JCK kagayaki blue#2 clad gyutos are within your budget or JCK natures blue moon series.



I too like Tojiro knives for the price and have never understood the hate that they garner from a select few.


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## Nemo (Dec 1, 2017)

K813zra said:


> I too like Tojiro knives for the price and have never understood the hate that they garner from a select few.


Tojiro HSPS is a pretty good knife for the money if you sre prepared to look past (or fix) the indifferent fit & finish.


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## Chef Doom (Dec 1, 2017)

It's the mass production that turns people off in most knife forums from what I notice.


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## K813zra (Dec 1, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> It's the mass production that turns people off in most knife forums from what I notice.



Which I do not understand if you are buying it for a non knife nut...If you are buying it for your collection, sure, I get it.


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## Canis (Dec 1, 2017)

The Tojiro looks like a solid knife but is pretty short for my tastes and s little harder to sharpen then my preferred White steel. Of the Tanaka's are indeed superior to the Yamashin which should I be looking at? Or are they both pretty equal?


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 1, 2017)

You want a hand forged rustic carbon cheap. Metalmaster has a Kurouchi 240mm Blue #2 for 120.00. I have never seen a junk Tanaka, some very rough around the edges & mediocre handles. But always good geometry, great cutting & heat treatment. The 240mm is just 9.5" Plus a 240 will give you a taller heel. Push cut & chopping machine.

Shipping from Japan is dirt cheap but it may take a while before you get it. I have ordered quite a few Tanaka's from him wait is about 3 weeks. He is out of stock of Tanaka's, has this carbon 240 left.


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## daveb (Dec 1, 2017)

See Panda's bst ad. 210 and 240 for 2 bills


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## labor of love (Dec 1, 2017)

daveb said:


> See Panda's bst ad. 210 and 240 for 2 bills



+1


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## labor of love (Dec 1, 2017)

At your price point gesshin uraku, zakuri and tanaka are your best bets. JCK has a knife with similar characteristics as uraku for around the same price.
FWIW many of us here with pricey knife collections sometimes have a tanaka in the mix. Its a great value.


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## niwaki-boy (Dec 2, 2017)

labor of love said:


> FWIW many of us here with pricey knife collections sometimes have a tanaka in the mix. Its a great value.


Might even have a couple &#128521;


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## Canis (Dec 2, 2017)

keithsaltydog said:


> You want a hand forged rustic carbon cheap. Metalmaster has a Kurouchi 240mm Blue #2 for 120.00. I have never seen a junk Tanaka, some very rough around the edges & mediocre handles. But always good geometry, great cutting & heat treatment. The 240mm is just 9.5" Plus a 240 will give you a taller heel. Push cut & chopping machine.
> 
> Shipping from Japan is dirt cheap but it may take a while before you get it. I have ordered quite a few Tanaka's from him wait is about 3 weeks. He is out of stock of Tanaka's, has this carbon 240 left.



Is the Tanaka that different from the Yamashin? I mean the Yamashin is a pure White 1 where the Tanaka is a more durable ( edge) but more brittle Blue 2... The Tanaka's also appears to be shorter and have a thinner spine which leads me to believe it's more prone to chipping or tip rips from chop and walking. If that's not the case and the Tanaka is superior to Yamashin I'll def check that out! 240 is a little on the too much length side but it could work.



daveb said:


> See Panda's bst ad. 210 and 240 for 2 bills



Where do I find this? I apologise for the ignorance... I'm new here lol.


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## daveb (Dec 2, 2017)

No worries.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...edish-carbon-210-amp-masamoto-hc-240mm-gyutos


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## Canis (Dec 2, 2017)

Ah the Masa is nice... Good deal for someone looking for a pair of Western handles for sure!


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## labor of love (Dec 2, 2017)

niwaki-boy said:


> Might even have a couple &#128521;



I definitely do.


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## Canis (Dec 2, 2017)

This is the Yamashin I'm referring to. Legit for only $99?

Edit:
Ok... Whelp I guess CK2G is blocked here?


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 2, 2017)

I have used Tojiro cheap carbons. The Kurouchi finish is not that strong has a tendency to wear off some. One thing about cheap carbons they will still get very sharp. 

Never used a Yamashin. Only watched the video on CKTG. I like that it has a tall heel. He said it is a lefty grind would not know without knife in hand. I have a thick Tosagata white steel paring knife I like a lot, even made a new handle for it.

For a gyuto home use or a pro kitchen that does most of your cutting you want a knife with a good grind. One that does not wedge & glides through food. Knives with thick spines & thin edges can be efficient all day cutters. Some forged knives are thicker next to the handle, this is to give strength to that part of the blade. Tanaka's have almost no distal taper, however the way they are ground makes them good cutters.

To be honest I used both white and blue mono carbons at work many yrs. I cannot tell much difference between quality White & blue steels. All I cared about is how sharp they got and ease of sharpening.

Think it is kind of cool that you want a rustic carbon wa handle workhorse. All these cheaper carbons you will have to round the spine, no big deal. The Metalmaster 240mm Kurouchi can tell from the pictures it has that good Tanaka grind. It is rough at spine and choil. I like the bold hand chiseled Kanji. Quality kurouchi finish.


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## Canis (Dec 2, 2017)

keithsaltydog said:


> I have used Tojiro cheap carbons. The Kurouchi finish is not that strong has a tendency to wear off some. One thing about cheap carbons they will still get very sharp.
> 
> Never used a Yamashin. Only watched the video on CKTG. I like that it has a tall heel. He said it is a lefty grind would not know without knife in hand. I have a thick Tosagata white steel paring knife I like a lot, even made a new handle for it.
> 
> ...



Is there some weird divot near the heal/choil area on that Tanaka? Or a mistake with the grind possibly. 

Yeah I'd like something a little more beefy and thicker than what's popular among the laser fanatic crowd. I want something I can beat on (not literally lol) and throw on the stones frequently. I dig sharpening and I'm getting better each time. 

The Yamashin appeals to me for the White #1, the thick spine with little distal taper, the kurouchi finish, ability to be tweaked, nice Walnut handle and the price of course lol.

I have word working tools and am pretty good with my hands... Are there any day handle kits or relatively inexpensive handles that I could throw on the Tanaka if I go that route? That standard Ho or Pakka handle disturbs me something fierce for some reason.


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## JaVa (Dec 2, 2017)

niwaki-boy said:


> Might even have a couple &#128521;



...Or six, but who's counting? :lol2:


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## JaVa (Dec 2, 2017)

The Tanaka KU from metalmaster is a very solid recommendation. My Favourite steel on the stones and cutting performance is second to none IMO. 

Worth a peek is also the Shiro Kamo B2 KU from K&S. which is a bit over budget, but it is one of the best bargains out there. James is one of the best and fastest when it comes to customer service. I've owned one and it was great. It has a more flat profile then the Tanaka, has slightly longer edge retention and is almost as nice on the stones. Similar cutting performance, but Tanaka wins by a hair. Still great though.
http://www.knivesandstones.com/shinko-seilan-gyuto-240mm-ku-aogami-super-by-shiro-kamo/


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 2, 2017)

I was kind of surprised to see a walnut octagon on a 100.00$ knife. Most cheaper carbons have ho wood with crappy plastic collars.

I am pretty certain that the D handle on the Tanaka is real horn. Same handle as the Metalmaster Tanaka Nashiji Ginsans & VG-10. I treat the Ho wood with mix of Tung oil & clear shellac. Round the spine & choil sell them at cost to students & cooks.

Was looking through my stash of handles that have been knocked off other knives. Only ones that would fit the Tanaka are Ho wood. Most dark wood wa handles are not cheap.

Checked out the divot on the Tanaka. Some rough forged blades have these imperfections. Main thing you don't have overgrind on the edge profile.


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## K813zra (Dec 2, 2017)

keithsaltydog said:


> I was kind of surprised to see a walnut octagon on a 100.00$ knife. Most cheaper carbons have ho wood with crappy plastic collars.
> 
> I am pretty certain that the D handle on the Tanaka is real horn. Same handle as the Metalmaster Tanaka Nashiji Ginsans & VG-10. I treat the Ho wood with mix of Tung oil & clear shellac. Round the spine & choil sell them at cost to students & cooks.
> 
> ...



Some of the Tanaka knives from MM have horn and some do not or at least that was how it was when he last had stock. Even within the same line some sizes had horn and others plastic. I am assuming he got said stock in at different times.


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## Canis (Dec 2, 2017)

Yeah that Walnut handle on the Yamashin is darn nice for the price. I just wish I knew more people who used them to get an idea how it would compare to the Tanaka. The steel is good, the grinds look nice but I've heard you can, like most hand made blades, get a wonky one. $120 for the Tanaka with a handle I'd want to replace has me hesitant when both blades should be about equal-ish.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 2, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Some of the Tanaka knives from MM have horn and some do not or at least that was how it was when he last had stock. Even within the same line some sizes had horn and others plastic. I am assuming he got said stock in at different times.



Yeh noticed the KU Tanaka's on CKTG have plastic. Often the wood is higher because you cannot sand the plastic. 

The KU on MM is flush with the horn. Never had a plastic collar from MM yet.

Well if you get the Yamashin let us know how you like it.


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## Canis (Dec 2, 2017)

I need to look up some info on Wa handle disassembly and new handle attachment. I might be able to make a handle myself but have no idea what the process of removable and attachment would be. How difficult is it?


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 3, 2017)

Traditional Wa handles with knife in a vise you can take a section of 2x4 place it flush with side of blade catching front edge of handle. Hit other end of piece of wood & handle will pop off. Most times you can save the old handle undamaged.

Many wa handles are mounted with epoxy. These you must cut off with a chisel destroying the old handle.

Mounting a new handle different methods for that. If epoxy make sure blade is not twisted & is straight. Making wa handles more involved than you might think. There are threads on this site with pictures of the process. 

Most custom wa handle makers are exotic wood junkies.


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## Canis (Dec 3, 2017)

Ah ok that makes sense. I'll try and hunt some info down on here. I'd be happy with anything dense and darker than the light Ho or Pakka... And something octagonal or round... D shaped handles seem uncomfortable.


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