# Watanabe - experience?



## alterwisser (Mar 11, 2015)

I only just now found out that Watanabe sells directly ... and at quite good prices. (yeah, you can laugh ... I am a rookie).

I emailed him and he replied promptly. Any experience you have in general with him, service, shipping and knives itself? How long did it take to get knives (in stock ones, not custom) including getting through customs? Did you have to pay any tariffs for importing these? I think anything less than $2500 is free to import, right?

Thanks for the help!


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## riba (Mar 11, 2015)

In short: Excellent communication, immediate shipping and a fantastic cutter. 
Only minor comment on my 18cm pro nakiri is that choil and spine were sharp.


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## Bill13 (Mar 11, 2015)

Excellent service, quick shipping. Can't comment on the knife as it is at Dave's getting a handle put on. With the dollar as strong as it is his knives are a good deal.


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## chinacats (Mar 11, 2015)

Shinichi is cool and quick. His knives rock!


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## alterwisser (Mar 11, 2015)

thanks guys, will pull the trigger today I guess ... he has a unique special out there that I am curious about... and I love that he replied within an hour! Cool ... and I guess a Watanabe should be part of any serious collection, right?


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## stereo.pete (Mar 11, 2015)

I treated myself last December to a 270mm Watanabe Pro Series gyuto and I love it!


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## alterwisser (Mar 11, 2015)

Pete ... I treat myself way too much these days. I am catching myself hiding knives from my wife ... I feel like I am cheating on her, LOL ... almost makes me feel better when she buys another pair of shoes


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## Dave Martell (Mar 11, 2015)

Stay away from the cheap knives he sells. Go Pro or stay home.


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## Asteger (Mar 11, 2015)

alterwisser said:


> I think anything less than $2500 is free to import, right?



Geez, that's generous. Which country are you in?

(Sorry, kidding, as it must be the US. But lots of us aren't.)

I like Watanabe a lot based on impressions. He's unlike other makers in Japan, perhaps with the excepton of Takeda who I haven't dealt with, or maybe Heiji. Generally, makers are really down-to-earth and focused on their work and the people they know - my impression. There's not a whole lot of business or internet or foreign language/culture savvy. For better or worse they're not too worldly, and so that's where the various vendors/sellers step in and bridge things if they can and carve out their niche. In comparison, Watanabe is more adept where others aren't and so is very accessible for those of us who contact on the internet and who aren't Japanese.


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 11, 2015)

alterwisser said:


> I think anything less than $2500 is free to import, right?



Lol, what? more like $25 here in the EU :laugh:


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## alterwisser (Mar 11, 2015)

What, you guys are still in the EU, Tim????


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## aboynamedsuita (Mar 11, 2015)

alterwisser said:


> I only just now found out that Watanabe sells directly ... and at quite good prices. (yeah, you can laugh ... I am a rookie).
> 
> I emailed him and he replied promptly. Any experience you have in general with him, service, shipping and knives itself? How long did it take to get knives (in stock ones, not custom) including getting through customs? Did you have to pay any tariffs for importing these? I think anything less than $2500 is free to import, right?
> 
> Thanks for the help!



Are you in Canada? $2500 is the limit for the CLVS self clearing with the CBSA. 

I ordered a custom 270mm Kiritsuke-Gyuto and a (lefty) 330mm Kensaki Yanagi from Shinichi about 6 weeks ago. He estimated that they'll be ready right about now, so I might ask him for an update since I was going to email him for a quote for my next purchase anyways.


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## Gnickrapon (Mar 11, 2015)

Can't really add anything to what's already been said. Shinichi was great to deal with, he estimated a delivery time for me and it ended up being early. No extra costs on top of what he initially charged me to get the knife to Australia. Best of all, the knife that I grabbed is great (180 Nakiri). It was my first Watanabe and it definitely won't be my last.


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## Dave Martell (Mar 11, 2015)

Everyone should have a Pro 180mm nakiri from Watanabe.


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## Matus (Mar 12, 2015)

alterwisser said:


> What, you guys are still in the EU, Tim????



We get 6 weeks vacation and 1 year payed maternity leave, so some of us hesitate 

But yes, we get to import 26 VAT free ... including shipping :-/


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## krx927 (Mar 12, 2015)

riba said:


> In short: Excellent communication, immediate shipping and a fantastic cutter.
> Only minor comment on my 18cm pro nakiri is that choil and spine were sharp.



I have exactly the same comment for my 240 Pro Gyuto. The choil and spine were easily rounded by some sand paper so no issue...


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## Bikeman (Mar 12, 2015)

I just contacted Watanabe yesterday for the first time and had a quick response back from Shinichi with answers to my questions. I will be ordering a Pro 180 Nakiri which appears to be a popular knife based on all the positive input here. I chose the Watanabe Pro over the TF Maboroshi that I was initially interested in. I prefer the larger blade size of Pro 180. The Nakiri is in stock and he mentioned I should receive it in about 6 days. Great service! BB


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## alterwisser (Mar 12, 2015)

I already ordered... not the pro Watanabe, but I think that will be in my future. He had a special, unique shape that I am a big fan off as I had a couple of similar shaped German knives in the past, the Herder Hechtsaebel. He was great to deal with, absolutely ... I also found a colleague now in Japan who comes over to the US quite often and is excited by my love (or addiction?) of Japanese knives and is eager to support it ... long story short: There will be knives in his suitcase in May LOL


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## gic (Mar 12, 2015)

I've always wanted a Honyaki blade and so I just ordered my first Mizu-Honyaki from him. With the yen so weak, it was a relative bargain. I am so looking forward to getting i!


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## Asteger (Mar 12, 2015)

Matus said:


> We get 6 weeks vacation and 1 year payed maternity leave



Sorry for the digression: Matus, in Germany - and, man, this makes me think my wife has the wrong nationality, me too - don't you receive 1000/mo for your child _until the age of 18!_


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## alterwisser (Mar 12, 2015)

What country do you get 1000 bucks a month in Europe for your child? I'll move there right away, we still have 16 years to go LOL ... it's true that you get some kind of child support in Germany, but it's actually 184 a month for the first and second child, little bit higher for the next ones ... if you're shooting for a football team or something


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## aboynamedsuita (Mar 12, 2015)

Does anyone have an opinion/ experience on his Kintarou ame steel for his pro line? I think it'd make a good addition to my (soon to be) Honyakis from his pro line.


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## HomeCook (Mar 13, 2015)

I bought the 180 Pro nakiri and asked for a buffalo horn ferule instead of the plastic one. No problem. It was an additional 7000 yen. Paypal transaction was seamless (ask him to send an you an invoice, much easier). It arrived in less than a week and I couldn't be happier.


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## nutmeg (Mar 13, 2015)

I have a gyuto 270 mm kintaro-ame from him and I find it fantastic. It looks wonderful, the finish is top and even if it seEms to be massive at the first use it became quick my everyday workhorse in a Michelin star-restaurant.
The blade and handle aren't 100% straight, what makes the cutting effortless.
His friction sayas are simple but pretty much perfect, like they it were designed to last very long.

It's all personal but I like it even more than my Kato damascus wich is a wonderful cutter and a high regarded knife on fora.


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## nutmeg (Mar 14, 2015)

And his engraving are not that pricy. For exemple the phoenix with the Gold eye on thé 12 th picture of the left column coasts about 40000 JPY.
Next time I ll take one!


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## toddnmd (Mar 14, 2015)

What are the weights of his 210 and 240 gyutos? (might vary by handle material, but I've been wondering). I think his knives are on the heavy side--comparable to Kato workhorses?


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## chinacats (Mar 14, 2015)

toddnmd said:


> What are the weights of his 210 and 240 gyutos? (might vary by handle material, but I've been wondering). I think his knives are on the heavy side--comparable to Kato workhorses?



My 240 was twenty grams heavier oob than my most recent Kato workhorse. 268 vs 246 if my memory is correct, but I've since sold the Kato and rehandled the Watanabe.


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## aboynamedsuita (Mar 14, 2015)

nutmeg said:


> I have a gyuto 270 mm kintaro-ame from him and I find it fantastic....
> The blade and handle aren't 100% straight, what makes the cutting effortless.



Is it more to do with the handle install, or is the blade actually curved? I was reading a post where the OP had a yanagi with a curve in it, but I kind of had the impression it wasn't one if the custom/pro ones. The handle wouldn't be too big a concern as it could be replaced/upgraded


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## krx927 (Mar 14, 2015)

My Gyuto 240mm with Keyaki octagon is 245g


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## nutmeg (Mar 14, 2015)

The handle isn't straight with the blade. It makes the cutting easyier. Sinichi says it is a mechanical rule (Kinetik).


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## alterwisser (Mar 17, 2015)

Just received my 2 knives from Watanabe ... wow, that was FAST! I am always looking for unique shapes to add to my small collection. Not there yet to buy the 29th different 240 mm Gyuto ... but I am sure I will at one point LOL. Bought a slicer (jungle shape off of the specials section) and a Mukimono Petty ... both rather uncommon shapes IMHO, so I went for those. First inspection: The finish on the Slicer is pretty rough, almost looks like the Kurouchi finish has chipped off in one place, and it looks like there might be a bit of a (rather good looking) blueish Patina right below the Kurouchi on one side.... Nothing major, I like the rustic look and it has a burnt chestnut handle as well.


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## Asteger (Mar 17, 2015)

Also got a couple of Watanabe recently, a pro petty and pro mukimono. Both were a bit rougher in their finish than I'd anticipated, and compared to the 210 pro gyuto I'd ordered before. The polish on the mukimono wasn't special, but about what is reasonable for Y15,000 or so. Haven't sharpened it. The petty is quite wavy - reminds me of KU Itonimon I've received, but not as bad as them - with the low/high bits hidden by the blasted finish. (Forget the name of the thing used for this. Someone has written about it before, and I think it works like sand-blasting would.)

Someone asked about weights before: my 210 pro gyuto with keyaki handle as measured on a so-so scale is 200 gm or slightly above that. Just a great-feeling knife to me.


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## alterwisser (Mar 17, 2015)

Asteger said:


> Both were a bit rougher in their finish than I'd anticipated, and compared to the 210 pro gyuto I'd ordered before. The polish on the mukimono wasn't special, but about what is reasonable for Y15,000 or so.



yeah, absolutely ... and if they cut well, I don't mind at this price point. I think I paid 28,000 total for Mukimono with upgraded handle and the slicer. If I like them I might get a pro Nakiri down the road, I think.


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## Asteger (Mar 17, 2015)

I think the prices are quite reasonable, considering the quality, even remembering that he raised prices recently. (A few months back.) Has to be an advantage of buying directly from the maker rather than vendors, which is a great thing. On the other hand, he charges too much for handles and saya. I presume he outsources this, but doesn't offer the best deal to his buyers.


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## krx927 (Mar 17, 2015)

1+
the reason why I only went for handle but not saya


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## nutmeg (Mar 18, 2015)

I don't find the sayas to be that expensive, they are really well made.


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## nutmeg (Mar 18, 2015)

And the fact the blade and the handle are not straight gives this sensation to have a kind of "magic finger" like I have with some other Katos and Shigefusa that aren't totally straight too. 
When I pick just after another knife that is straight the cutting feels less natural and hurts the hand a bit more.


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## Asteger (Mar 18, 2015)

nutmeg said:


> I don't find the sayas to be that expensive, they are really well made.



Good to know the quality's good. But they are expensive in Japanese terms, I think. He seems to charge about Y10,000 for saya, but good handle/saya makers will do them for a lot less.


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## TheDispossessed (Mar 18, 2015)

dear lord! 
10,000 jpy for a saya and 7,000 for a decent handle!? 
That's way up there


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## aboynamedsuita (Mar 18, 2015)

TheDispossessed said:


> dear lord!
> 10,000 jpy for a saya and 7,000 for a decent handle!?
> That's way up there



The saya for my 330 kensaki yanagi was ¥15,000 and for my 270 Kiritsuke gyuto was ¥18,000. I got a quote of ¥7,000 for an upgrade to octagonal handle but since I'm going to be getting customs later it wasn't worth it


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## chinacats (Mar 18, 2015)

TheDispossessed said:


> dear lord!
> 10,000 jpy for a saya and 7,000 for a decent handle!?
> That's way up there



It comes with a decent handle at no charge...and while custom knife makers around here happen to do nice woodworking, I believe Shinichi to be specifically a knife maker. I think that's why he can crank out so many knives while the custom makers here have so much lower output.


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## Asteger (Mar 18, 2015)

Depends on what you get. With the Pro line for example, not all come with ho/buffalo. Just got a petty with ho/plastic. Actually, the handle is fine and functional, but none of us likes plastic. I think Dispossessed was right above, that a ho/buffalo would be a Y7000 upgrade. In my case, I'll just be removing the plastic one and installing an ebony/ho handle that cost me less.


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## riba (Mar 18, 2015)

The pro nakiri 18cm also comes with a ho/plastic. 
Not too bad a handle actually.


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## chinacats (Mar 18, 2015)

I don't know about the petties, but the pro series gyuto still comes with a horn ferrule as of a couple of months ago. It really didn't matter because once I cut with it there was no doubt it was a keeper--I sent it to Mikey and now not only does it cut well it looks and feels perfect imo. 

I guess it's just a personal thing (and I too hate plastic) but if I plan on keeping a knife then I'm "ditching the ho"


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## aboynamedsuita (Apr 1, 2015)

Just got my 270 Honyaki Kiritsuke gyuto. 
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7655-Show-your-newest-knife-buy?p=351603#post351603


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## gic (Apr 2, 2015)

I got a burn chestnut as an upgrade, it's quite nice, very comfortable


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## alterwisser (Apr 2, 2015)

gic said:


> I got a burn chestnut as an upgrade, it's quite nice, very comfortable



me too on both knives, feels great, doesn't it?


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## Asteger (Apr 2, 2015)

... I'm thinking: if there were a 'Gesshin Watanabe' line or if Watanabe were given some other endorsement, or sold from JNS etc, KKFers would be all over them even more. Bravo to Watanabe for continuing to do it so well on their own.


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## designdog (Apr 2, 2015)

I have three Watanabes, all purchased around 2008. A 270 pro gyuto (beast) a 240 pro gyuto with his special handle, and a 210 honyaki gyuto with a Stefan handle via Dave Martell.

The beast is great for making pesto - only time I use it, but I like pesto. I regarded the 240 as my best gyuto, until I started getting Katos, Heiji, Hide, etc. Still very nice, especially since I thinned it, sandpapered it, and waxed the handle. The honyaki is as close to a perfect knife as I own.

"Sin" is a great guy. Wish I could get more knives from him, but I have all of his I want for now...


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## designdog (Apr 2, 2015)

Ger, if Watanabe partnered with a JNS or some other, I fear the result would be the kind of shortage situation we see with Genetsu, Konosuke, Shigefusa, etc.The great thing about Watanabe is that he is one of the few factory direct sellers who maintains really good quality. He makes to the global standard, not the local standard for his export sales...


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## Asteger (Apr 2, 2015)

designdog said:


> Ger, if Watanabe partnered with a JNS or some other, I fear the result would be the kind of shortage situation we see with Genetsu, Konosuke, Shigefusa, etc.The great thing about Watanabe is that he is one of the few factory direct sellers who maintains really good quality. He makes to the global standard, not the local standard for his export sales...



Hmm, I don't know if he would apply different standards if only selling to Japanese, although he'd probably end up making far fewer gyuto. But yes, he's a different sort of maker for sure. He's got some English ability, he obviously was on the internet selling his knives (in Japan and abroad) directly at an early stage, and seems to like this connection with customers and can manage it. I've met a few makers and this wouldn't be their thing at all - messing with the internet, dealing with customers in this way, and especially foreigners who know no Japanese and probably have some odd requests and unpredictable reactions. Very non-traditional stuff, there would be too many uncertainties, and they'd lack the skills. The older makers don't seem too educated, in fact. Watanabe, in comparison, seems a lot more 'worldly'. Lucky for us.


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## Dave Martell (Apr 2, 2015)

I believe that Watanabe, at one time, either did or came close to becoming a "to go" product.


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## designdog (Apr 2, 2015)

Based on my experience buying directly from the Japanese manufacturer, and communicating with them, I have come to conclude that the knife bought in Japan is different that that bought here from importers. Perhaps more knowledge means a bias to function versus appearance. I think that the Jons of the world do us a service by setting standards beyond the local Japanese market. Part of the reason they can charge more!

Watanabe has his share of plastic ferrules and I recall reading about some returning his knife for an issue. The point is he knows what it takes to succeed in the export market, and puts his pride, or, in the case of others perhaps, ignorance, aside and gives the export customer a pretty good batting average.

That said, his knives are not very sexy, and he has not expanded his product line that much...


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## chinacats (Apr 2, 2015)

designdog said:


> That said, his knives are not very sexy, and he has not expanded his product line that much...



I guess sexy is in the eye of the beholder...sometimes all it takes is some new shoes

As to the product line, I guess I'm not sure what he could be expected to add. My impression is that it appears too expansive as is...of course I'm just looking at gyutos no matter where I shop so maybe that's on me.


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## Timthebeaver (Apr 3, 2015)

Dave Martell said:


> I believe that Watanabe, at one time, either did or came close to becoming a "to go" product.



I distinctly remember a few 240mm pro gyuto with custom handles, $699


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## kostantinos (Apr 3, 2015)

I always had the most exceptional impression of watanabe knifes.

He works fast , communicates rather well directly and also makes good workhorse knifes. I believe watanabe just fell on the wayside while other makers came forward more during years past . Also users started favoring thinner knives from makers like Tadatsuna and later Konosuke (lasers).

My experience with watanabe was a blue gyuto in Blue n1 that the guy that introduced me to the original knife forums family had.

It was very sharp and unicorn like. It was made with Blue steel according to him blue n1 which was something he stopped doing. I didn't seem to believe that fact but then it also came with an octagon handle with horn ferrule that watanabe stopped doing as an option that i know it to be a fact .

Dave is correct about the To go product . I believe he made a batch of knives for him but that was it .Shinichi still sells direct and i think it works well for him as a small knife maker and his family

Dave is also correct about his cheaper "home" line. If you go ,Skip the basic and go pro and if you got the $$$$ go Kintaroame.


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## alterwisser (Apr 3, 2015)

Asteger said:


> Hmm, I don't know if he would apply different standards if only selling to Japanese, although he'd probably end up making far fewer gyuto. But yes, he's a different sort of maker for sure. He's got some English ability, he obviously was on the internet selling his knives (in Japan and abroad) directly at an early stage, and seems to like this connection with customers and can manage it. I've met a few makers and this wouldn't be their thing at all - messing with the internet, dealing with customers in this way, and especially foreigners who know no Japanese and probably have some odd requests and unpredictable reactions. Very non-traditional stuff, there would be too many uncertainties, and they'd lack the skills. The older makers don't seem too educated, in fact. Watanabe, in comparison, seems a lot more 'worldly'. Lucky for us.



For me the story behind a knife and the history of Japanese makers is an important part of the knife ... I really loved communicating with Watanabe, as I bought one of his knives from the specials section, a rather uniquely "jungle style" shaped slicer, and he explained the idea and story behind the knife, talked about the rough fit and finish (and boy is it rough, imperfect is a kind way of describing it - but it's crazy sharp and just works like a charm). 

I also communicated with Fujiwara and ordered straight from him, not as extended of a conversation, still nice though. Currently in contact with Shiba from shibaknives.com (I think he's also the sharpener for Masakage knives). That is more work related though, still loving it. He doesn't sell directly, asked me to buy through DC sharp or to go


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## gic (Apr 3, 2015)

I found him a pleasure to deal with, and with the yen so low, his prices are quite good.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 3, 2015)

I've met him twice in person, once at the Oregon Knife show and once at Blade in Atlanta. Nice guy. I bought knives off of him both places. He even chiseled my name on a Wa-Deba I bought. Just wish he could make the trip over here more often but I'm sure it is hard to sell enough knives to really make it worthwhile.


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