# Anybody here on a plant-based diet?



## sudsy9977 (Jun 26, 2017)

So I watched a few things recently on plant based diets. Has anybody ever tried anything like that ...did you miss eating meat? Any opinions. Ryan


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## TheCaptain (Jun 26, 2017)

I encourage everyone to go on one. More bacon for me :biggrin:.

In all seriousness I tried it for awhile in my 20's. Missed meat too much BUT it did get me to cut back on meat a lot and try different cuisines.


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## foody518 (Jun 26, 2017)

Basically how I cook at home. Doing low oils as opposed to no added oils atm. In it for health reasons predominantly as opposed to ethical reasons. 
Your body adjusts to how you eat over time so it can literally rock your system to go back and eat a richer meal
Grew up with frugal home cooking that had meat as an accent in meals, not meat-centric meals, so not a giant adjustment

What videos did you find?


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## sudsy9977 (Jun 26, 2017)

I watched two on Netflix...one was called"what the health" and the other was called "food choices" I think....just seemed to make a lot of sense....ive lost aloof weight over the past two years or so and became a lot healthier....I do eat a lot of processed foods, meat and eggs though....I probably should at least add a lot more veggies and some whole grains for some if not most of that meat....ryan


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## Seth (Jun 26, 2017)

Good for your heart; as a recent visitor to the white light, I am being encouraged to go plant-based (by my dog's vet....). I didn't think there was much harmful in my diet but I guess there is always room for improvement. There are a couple of cardiologists who wrote books on this stuff - after I read them I will post anything significant I discover.
Thanks,
The Totally Stress-free Seth


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## foody518 (Jun 26, 2017)

Nice, try forks over knives as well
On the cardiologists/doctors- Dean Ornish, Caldwell Esselstyn, John McDougall
Read The China Study as my first exposure to the plant based eating


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jun 27, 2017)

...


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## tsuriru (Jun 27, 2017)

I am on a plant based diet. But I dont miss eating meat because my diet is plant based but not exclusively vegetarian i.e. I do eat meat, but not as much and not as often as I used to / liked to. But now days I am far more picky. If Im going to have meat I would rather it be organic or better yet, game + I try to keep it under 5% animal based protein throughout my diet. This means no dairy products and no eggs. No refined sugars or complex carbs either - In the beginning I missed those more than I missed meat. But the upside is that I am forced to constantly re-invent what I am doing with the food materials that I do consume. I have discovered some very surprising taste combinations while eating raw food such as vegetables, leafs, nuts, and berries.


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## Marek07 (Jun 27, 2017)

I haven't eaten meat for nigh on 3 decades. Not a vegan - I have dairy, honey and occasionally eggs. However that doesn't mean I'm healthy. There's plenty of non-meat junk food to enjoy. Then there's consuming too much and expending too little. &#128521;

I don't miss the taste of meat at all but texture is another matter. I enjoy charring foods like seitan (wheat gluten) just to get tough & chewy textures. Strangely, I sometimes find the smell of smallgoods alluring or at least evoking pleasant memories.

I quite often hear people who've recently stopped eating meat, that they miss the smell and taste of bacon. Seems to be a very prevalent desire.


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## foody518 (Jun 27, 2017)

The sentiment I seem hear more of from others is an unwillingness to give up dairy - cheese, ice cream, etc.


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## larrybard (Jun 27, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Nice, try forks over knives as well
> On the cardiologists/doctors- Dean Ornish, Caldwell Esselstyn, John McDougall
> Read The China Study as my first exposure to the plant based eating



And if you look at Forks Over Knives, you might want to also read this:
https://deniseminger.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/


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## chinacats (Jun 27, 2017)

I was a pretty strict vegetarian for over five years--vegan for about a year. Gave it all up for pork.

Felt healthier than any other time in my life.


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## Marek07 (Jun 27, 2017)

chinacats said:


> I was a pretty strict vegetarian for over five years--vegan for about a year. Gave it all up for pork.
> 
> Felt healthier than any other time in my life.


 Clarification please...
You felt healthier without meat or when you returned to eating it?


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## labor of love (Jun 27, 2017)

I was a vegetarian for a decade and vegan for last 6 of those years. I don't remember ever getting sick in that time period but it was also really hard to make gains at the gym. The first meat I ate after my 10 year drought was a ribeye mid rare. The first dairy product after the 6 years of veganism was a pizza loaded with ricotta, mozzarella, pesto and vegetables. It was easy being vegetarian and vegan once my taste buds had forgotten what those foods tasted like. But once I had them again I could never go back.


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## foody518 (Jun 27, 2017)

@larrybard thanks for the link


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## foody518 (Jun 27, 2017)

@laboroflove haha I'm a little envious about the dairy. After 1-2 months going fully plant based that kicked off my latent genetic/ethnic lactose sensitivity... Which is now pretty full blown lactose intolerance


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## tsuriru (Jun 27, 2017)

foody518 said:


> The sentiment I seem hear more of from others is an unwillingness to give up dairy - cheese, ice cream, etc.



I wonder if this unwillingness would remain unwavering if the actual amount of veterinary care byproducts and feed related toxins that make their way into the milk would become a clear and advertised quantity.


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## foody518 (Jun 27, 2017)

tsuriru said:


> I wonder if this unwillingness would remain unwavering if the actual amount of veterinary care byproducts and feed related toxins that make their way into the milk would become a clear and advertised quantity.



In the past few years we've had several listeria outbreaks tied to a well-loved ice cream brand here and folks I was hearing from seemed less scared about the outbreaks and more annoyed or 'in-withdrawal' from not being able to purchase it in stores


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## valgard (Jun 27, 2017)

tsuriru said:


> I wonder if this unwillingness would remain unwavering if the actual amount of veterinary care byproducts and feed related toxins that make their way into the milk would become a clear and advertised quantity.



I have an idea of a lot of chemicals that make it into the milk, some of the more tasty meats as well as fish and seafood in general, none of that makes me want to give up the pleasure of eating them (although if money wasn't an issue I would go with the healthiest pick). I also know I'm exposed to far greater levels of radiation every time I take a plane and it will never stop me from wanting to travel...


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## labor of love (Jun 27, 2017)

I feel like the concentrated amount of sodium found in cheese(also steak, cured meats, etc etc) is a real contributing factor for why it's difficult to give up. This stuff is calorie/flavor/sodium bombs. 
@foodie overtime you will lose the cravings for cheese, the palate is very trainable.


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## foody518 (Jun 27, 2017)

@Labor - Right on on the salt. And well, the whole digestive issues with lactose certainly helps deter that. But when I'm in an area for a while that just is saturated with the smell of good pizza or something...it sucks. 

Not really having huge cravings for most meat or cheese - or feeling like I would just want to have a few bites then I'm good.


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## Marek07 (Jun 28, 2017)

Actually went vegan for a while. Not really hard to give up milk, cheese & eggs. My downfall was my love of pizza. Perhaps I didn't experiment enough but it just wasnt right. There's a name for pizza without cheese... It's called bread.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jun 28, 2017)

Cheese is indeed hard to replace texture wise, especially molten cheese as used in italian cuisine ... there's a temperature-vs-texture play going on* .... don't remind me I gave that up  Almost all other dairy stuff replaces well, but takes trying several recipes to find something good - custards, mayonnaises, ice cream you can all make plant based and with great quality; but many recipes abound that elicit a "respect and thank you for the research but this doesn't come close..." and/or that have the problem recipes have when we amateurs/enthusiasts write them: They work, if a precondition that the writer took for granted and didn't mention is satisfied.

"I wonder if this unwillingness would remain unwavering if the actual amount of veterinary care byproducts and feed related toxins that make their way into the milk would become a clear and advertised quantity."

It would certainly steer people towards "less and of higher quality (care standards wise)".... oh wait, it probably wouldn't, misanthropically speaking.


*I guess we europeans expect cooked cheese to somewhat separate, crisp at the edges, get stringy, and harden/get chewy when it cools. Heard americans sometimes consider such behaviours as a defect?


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## tsuriru (Jun 28, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> "I wonder if this unwillingness would remain unwavering if the actual amount of veterinary care byproducts and feed related toxins that make their way into the milk would become a clear and advertised quantity."
> 
> It would certainly steer people towards "less and of higher quality (care standards wise)".... oh wait, it probably wouldn't, misanthropically speaking.



I was not counting on misanthropy....I was counting on a self preservation instincts. It seems a great number of people simply do not realize just how much **** is put into our food - especially at the raw material level. In fact, If you look at the "recommended dairy consumption" in the 1950's you will find we where not being told to consume so much dairy. So what happened? Did modern science suddenly realize alot more milk is good for us? or perhaps they discovered that a lot more milk is good for THEM. You cant make money on dead people or on healthy people - well - not as much money anyhow. You need to keep people in that sweet spot where they continue to consume large unwarranted servings of contaminated food, become sick, and start to consume medications for their respective sickness. That is how you maximize profits. Meanwhile, as you note, Animals are mistreated, products are mislabeled, and so it goes.


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## chinacats (Jun 28, 2017)

Marek07 said:


> Clarification please...
> You felt healthier without meat or when you returned to eating it?



Ha, definitely felt healthier while a veg...

I actually feel a bit like a sloth right now but that's more due to caloric intake and not enough exercise.


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## foody518 (Jun 28, 2017)

@tsuriru I'm not sure if the self-preservation instincts would be compelling because effects tend to be more displaced on a time scale relative to causes, and it's hard to isolate singular causes.
Agree that it's worth searching out the money motivations of all involved

@Marek oh god, and a normal pizza just missing the cheese is the saddest thing ever. And so lacking in calories you have to eat half a pizza to get anywhere close to full


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## crockerculinary (Jun 28, 2017)

i have actually worked with and for quite a few plant based restaurants, and even though im not veg have accidentally fallen into being a specialist in this area. there really is no question plant based is healthier, more sustainable, etc. part of my mission as a chef is to help plant based become a valid cuisine that can stand alongside "real food". it has historically been the realm of amateurs, and thankfully there are more and more real chefs taking it on and elevating it by offering it on their menus. as a creative i actually really enjoy having the restrictions of "you need to make this delicious, but no butter, cream, cheese, meat stock etc." it really puts your flavor development skills to the test. i am also blessed to live in california, and with our produce it isnt hard to do.



LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Cheese is indeed hard to replace texture wise, especially molten cheese as used in italian cuisine ... there's a temperature-vs-texture play going on* .... don't remind me I gave that up  Almost all other dairy stuff replaces well, but takes trying several recipes to find something good - custards, mayonnaises, ice cream you can all make plant based and with great quality; but many recipes abound that elicit a "respect and thank you for the research but this doesn't come close..."



this. somebody will get there eventually and make a plant based stringy, gooey, chewy sub for parm and mozz, but until then, just forget about trying to replicate it or you will be disappointed. there have been some great breakthroughs in replicating some of the softer cheeses however. there is a great cashew brie recipe developed a few years ago that would knock your socks off.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jun 28, 2017)

"it has historically been the realm of amateurs, and thankfully there are more and more real chefs taking it on and elevating it by offering it on their menus."

This however, sounds arrogant. But then, I am an amateur, who never understood why fine dining types say "elevate" instead of "make a really good version or variation of".

..

The cashew brie, a Schinner recipe I assume? Even I lack the patience to try her recipes... but I certainly respect her serious approach. Books and recipes that say "let's make great food" and not "lets substitute great food" 

..

Usually, I think a good approach is "change the sources, try not to change the nutritional makeup" - eg if you are aiming for a protein texture and umami, well then USE protein of whatever source - I always had the suspicion that the whole "MSG problem" was about telling your body there was a rich source of well split up amino acids (as a soy sauce, a cheese, other fermented stuff, even hydrolized wheat protein would be)... to make very low protein foods (eg a noodle dish with very little meat or other protein in it) palatable - and completely confusing your system. Exception: I find long slices of fried plantain (cooking banana) just work too well in some dishes that would normally have big pieces of fish in it (tried it in caldinho. the result don't pretend to be a fish curry, but wow it worked...).

...

I'd never accuse people that want a piece of beef or a glass of milk of being the problem. There's always enough for those that care. Problem is with those that couldn't care less if it was real beef or milk and go for it out of habit... Because there's never enough for those that don't care.

... 

Secret tip for those that want a plant based strong blue-cheesy taste and are adventurous: Pickled Tofu/Sufu/Doufu Rou. I am still unsure if that stuff is really safe to feed people not accustomed to it, though.


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## crockerculinary (Jun 28, 2017)

apologies for coming off like that, not my intent at all. really intended more as reporting than a personal opinion. it HAS been the realm of amateurs, thats not an insult on amateurs at all, only praise for what dedicated professionals can accomplish. a lot of chefs and food scientists etc. with deep professional knowledge bases just recently started turning their attention to the subject and there have been some great strides made based on that.

as for elevate, i think its a fine word and it seems more efficient and descriptive than "make a really good version or variation of".


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jun 28, 2017)

Dunno... "elevate" always strikes me as... implying that it is the chef, and not what the chef does, that makes it great. And now I am probably sounding arrogant 

...

To make a vegetarian version of a traditionally meat based dish, it is IMHO often best to use a traditional recipe as your starting point, look at all kinds of vegetarian adaptations people have done for inspiration, then think 

And as always, dish that defines the aroma of the animal protein used (many thai and szichuan dishes for example) by plant based seasonings? Possible to reinvent to great results, if you can find a matching texture. Dish where the animal protein defines the aroma (ironically, those dishes look the most vegetarian friendly on the surface - my fight with cantonese dishes, and any light soup or braised dish that is mostly defined by its stock!) - omg, you're in for a hard ride ("what's the problem?" ..."it says chicken stock here, and there is no seasoning structure evident in the recipe that builds over it...")


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## sudsy9977 (Jun 28, 2017)

Watching forksforks over knives right now. Everyone I've told so far have either said I was stupid crazy or can't do a plant based diet. Ryan


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## sudsy9977 (Jun 28, 2017)

Any good places for recipe ideas ? I've found some but I figured I'd ask


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## labor of love (Jun 28, 2017)

sudsy9977 said:


> Any good places for recipe ideas ? I've found some but I figured I'd ask



I stopped being vegan around 03 but "how it all vegan" and "veganomicon" were two of my fave cookbooks. Have you been cooking with primary yeast flakes?


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## foody518 (Jun 28, 2017)

Stir fried rice noodles


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## 99Limited (Jun 28, 2017)

I switched to a plant based diet three years ago. I did it for my health. I was extremely over weight, high cholesterol and all the other side effects that come with being over weight. I'm now weigh what I did 40 years ago and all the other numbers are deep within the so called "normal" range. I thought I miss meat and I did at first, but now I hardly think about. My diet is pretty simple, lots of fruit and veggies, extra firm tofu and Greek yogurt. I also add chia seeds, hulled hemp seeds, ground flaxseed and nutritional yeast to salads or yogurt. I try to make sure I get about 60 grams of protein everyday or 420 grams for the week. Even though I try to make sure that I maintain a nutritionally complete diet, my last blood test showed I needed to add a multi-vitamin to fill in the holes. I still eat some seafood, chicken and beef maybe once or twice a month.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 29, 2017)

sudsy9977 said:


> Any good places for recipe ideas ? I've found some but I figured I'd ask



Try Thug Kitchen. http://www.thugkitchen.com


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## chinacats (Jun 29, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Try Thug Kitchen. http://www.thugkitchen.com



That's ******* awesome!


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## Seth (Jun 29, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Nice, try forks over knives as well
> On the cardiologists/doctors- Dean Ornish, Caldwell Esselstyn, John McDougall
> Read The China Study as my first exposure to the plant based eating



I am working my way through Ornish and Esselstyn - highly recommended especially if you are at risk.


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## ThEoRy (Jun 29, 2017)

I'm on a plant based diet. All of the animals that I eat have a plant based diet. That counts right?


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## foody518 (Jun 29, 2017)

Haha if you go that far then we're all on a sun based diet


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jun 29, 2017)

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarian/comments/1lxthh/enjoying_your_meat_murderer/

Any joke below that level will just get you stinkeye from veg*ns.


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## Marek07 (Jun 29, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> .....
> I always had the suspicion that the whole "MSG problem" was about telling your body there was a rich source of well split up amino acids (as a soy sauce, a cheese, other fermented stuff, even hydrolized wheat protein would be)... to make very low protein foods (eg a noodle dish with very little meat or other protein in it) palatable - and completely confusing your system.
> .....


Very interesting. You've given me much to think about and even more to investigate. Thanks!


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 29, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> I'm on a plant based diet. All of the animals that I eat have a plant based diet. That counts right?



Sounds like a paraphrase of ALF (the alien), when offered a salad. "That's not food; that's what food eats."


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## alterwisser (Jun 29, 2017)

Late to the party ...

Here are my two cents. And I am neither a vegan/vegetarian nor do I ever plan to be one ...

1) I am absolutely convinced that it's better for your health, the environment and the survival of our species if we focus on a (mostly) plant based diet

2) Me and my wife do a vegan diet for 21 days once a year. Not only vegan, but no processed foods, no tofu, no alcohol, no caffeine ... you name it. Second week not even legumes. 

3) After the first week of that diet (caffeine and sugar withdrawl is effin hell on earth!) I feel amazing. 

4) I still do not thing it's healthy to maintain that diet forever. Or it's really only doable if you painstakenly watch what you eat and measure/analyze your nutrional intake

5) I am a food whore. Sex and food are the two best things that happened to humankind. Sorry! I just enjoy eating, and I enjoy a lot of the foods we are being told to avoid

6) If you want to eat healthier, you don't HAVE to go crazy and be a vegan. Cut out processed food, eliminate or drastically reduce certain carbs (simple ones). Only whole grains for pasta, bread (if you cannot live without it), only brown rice etc. I avoid all dry carbs after 2 pm. I try to eat healthy during the week and enjoy the weekends. Focus on fish (wild caught, only certain species), chicken/turkey and lamb. Very little red meat. Eggs are you friend, IMHO.

7) Work the f*** out. Eating healthy can give you a lot of benefits, but not nearly as many as being active. If you do work out you can also get away with cheating on your diet A LOT more often ... and I am not even mentioning all the other benefits. A healthy diet without exercise will only get you that far ...

8) The question I always like to ask people: Would you rather give up alcohol or meat? ... leads to interesting discussions.

I'll now have 3 glasses of red wine and a huge chunk of overly ripe Comte. Salud!


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jun 29, 2017)

7a) cook your own food whenever you can, as from scratch as you sensibly can - exercise is automatic


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## foody518 (Jun 29, 2017)

Alterwisser - why on #4?


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## ThEoRy (Jun 29, 2017)

[video=youtube;z0O_VYcsIk8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8[/video]


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## alterwisser (Jun 29, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Alterwisser - why on #4?



I think you're really missing out on some key nutrients if you're a vegan. You MIGHT (and I'm no expert by any means) be able to maintain a balanced diet, but I think you have to be very through and analytical about your exact intake of certain foods. I don't think you can eyeball it....

That's not scientific at all. Just my gut feeling, combined with some observations and stuff I read over time. I'm also a proponent of a diet that's somewhat high in protein.... and that is tougher with a vegan diet, at least if you need/want to take in enough protein for muscle gain.


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## foody518 (Jun 29, 2017)

Well, a good deal of beans avg ~20% calories from protein. I think the high protein bias is the big thing and could be an issue if you want to bulk up without eating a boatload of food. Typical person's protein consumption is in excess of minimum or even recommended guidelines. Plant based foods tend to have the micronutrients that other foods lack...

One of the perks of eating this way (including the low to no oils aspect) is pretty generous portion sizes or more meals per day than I'd be able to manage otherwise without weight gain


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## alterwisser (Jun 29, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Well, a good deal of beans avg ~20% calories from protein. I think the high protein bias is the big thing and could be an issue if you want to bulk up without eating a boatload of food. Typical person's protein consumption is in excess of minimum or even recommended guidelines. Plant based foods tend to have the micronutrients that other foods lack...
> 
> One of the perks of eating this way (including the low to no oils aspect) is pretty generous portion sizes or more meals per day than I'd be able to manage otherwise without weight gain



No oil makes no sense.... IMHO. I thought that "oil/fat is bad for you myth" has long been debunked. It's a matter of what type of oil/fat is used... and yes, also how much.


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## foody518 (Jun 29, 2017)

It does make sense if you think of your meals in terms of caloric density and satiety


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## Nemo (Jun 29, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> I'm on a plant based diet. All of the animals that I eat have a plant based diet. That counts right?



I think of it as "some of the plants I eat have been filtered through a cow (or sheep or chicken...)" 

Actually, chickens eat quite a bit of meat.... hmmm... scrub that line of thought.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jun 30, 2017)

Peanuts, or stuff made from lentils (these recently fashionable lentil pasta .... I think they taste great with some veg and the same spiced oil you'd put in a dal tadka) - protein content that exceeds most meats.

Never understood why many call pad thai an unhealthy dish - it's just a high caloric dish (with protein, veg, fermented elements, everything!) invented by and made for active people.....


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## tsuriru (Jun 30, 2017)

alterwisser said:


> I think you're really missing out on some key nutrients if you're a vegan. You MIGHT (and I'm no expert by any means) be able to maintain a balanced diet, but I think you have to be very through and analytical about your exact intake of certain foods. I don't think you can eyeball it....



I agree. And it gets pretty tricky pretty fast. The main problem is labeling.


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## alterwisser (Jun 30, 2017)

foody518 said:


> It does make sense if you think of your meals in terms of caloric density and satiety



If that is your main focus you can of course build your diet on cucumbers, lettuce, celery and the likes.

I think when it comes to a healthy diet the calorie intake shouldn't be front and center, nutrient density and especially balancing the nutrients your body needs should be focused on.


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## foody518 (Jun 30, 2017)

Alterwisser - Another approach is to build it on satisfying grains and starches.
Nutrient density is indeed important. And you're spot on about simple sugars and the like. But, which foods tend to be more nutrient dense?


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## alterwisser (Jun 30, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Alterwisser - Another approach is to build it on satisfying grains and starches.
> Nutrient density is indeed important. And you're spot on about simple sugars and the like. But, which foods tend to be more nutrient dense?



Starchy foods raise your blood sugar and make you gain weight (simply speaking).

Whole grains are a different story, somewhat .... but I'm sticking to my mantra of avoiding dry carbs and starchy foods after 2 pm. A couple of years ago I lost 42lbs in 7 weeks, and loading up on complex carbs in the morning and avoiding them after 2 pm (ideally even for lunch) was one key (exercise and high, lean protein another IMHO).

As to your question about nutrient dense foods, some are a no brainer and probably a staple of your diet: Leafy greens, broccoli, blueberries.

But some of the most nutrient dense foods in the world are: salmon, sardines, liver, egg yolk. But they are also all fatty. Even if you were not using a plant based diet you'd avoid these, I assume, due to their calories. Same goes for nuts, i assume. I wonder how you get your essential fats then?

I mean, I am sure you realize that certain vitamins are fat soluble. If you avoid or minimize fat intake to an extreme, you will create a vitamin deficiency. 

If your goal is a HEALTHY diet to give your body all it needs, that simply cannot be the right way. If you focus on calorie intake mostly ... well, then a plant based diet in combination with low/no fat probably is the best way to go. But as I explained above, there are still plenty of questions marks when it comes to that being the healthiest way to eat.


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## rahimlee54 (Jun 30, 2017)

I have been watching "what the health" the last couple of nights and will finish it tonight. I did a lot of research on raw eating and nutrition in general a few years ago. I ended up losing around 45 pounds. I was never huge but I was not as healthy as I wanted. From 225 to 185. I now sit anywhere from 190 to 210 based on my current weight lifting goals. I have felt and still feel great eating a large amount of lean meat and dairy. I also increase my fruit and veg intake drastically. I moderated my cured meat and desserts. I subscribe to the moderation theory. Diet will cure alot of problems such as heart disease and diabetes for most people. The movie claims 5-8% of cancer and such are genetic, however, my personal experience shows me something different. My mom smokes and drinks regularly heart problems and diabetes. My aunt doesn't do either has had heart problems, diabetes, and a stroke. Their diet is pretty much the same so I am not sure if I can buy in. 

I do think if people would eat less processed and baked goods and more fruits and veg with smart meat choices their health will greatly increase. 

The guy that pioneered the "Atkins Diet" lived to 72 and average white american male life expectancy is around 74 so that's pretty good.

Jared


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## labor of love (Jun 30, 2017)

A strong emphasis on fruits and vegetables will bring about great health in anyone regardless of which particular diet you follow I think(veg,vegan, paleo, south beach). Nutritional density combined the appropriate caloric consumption seems like the way.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jun 30, 2017)

One irony: I sometimes end up eating too little raw veg at times - because of inputting too much energy into making cooked dishes


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## OliverNuther (Jul 1, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> I'm on a plant based diet. All of the animals that I eat have a plant based diet. That counts right?



I follow this diet. I supplement it with additional yeast, malt, barley and hops as required.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 1, 2017)

Didn't know so many in the cooking profession here have tried Vegetarian & even vegan. Not knocking it vegan's need sharp knives too. I cooked Vegetarian meals for a group. Was able to make some tasty dishes using fresh herbs. Garlic, Ginger, & many non meat sauces.

These days eat salads every day, Pork, Chicken, and Seafood. Less of the meat more complex carbs, fresh fruits and vegetables. My better half wanted to cut out Beef because it takes so much to produce it. Rainforest in South America are being burned to raise cattle. Don't really miss it at all. As long as have some Pork.

In my older age seem to have some lactose problems, can't eat ice crème or too much cheese. Use Soy milk. My Mother had that too. I love Mexican food, they don't dump huge amounts of cheese on everything like some American so called Mexican. Pizza with one third of the cheese instead of sticky strands where all you can taste is cheese.

Have been eating Seafood all my life and will continue. I know the oceans are under stress too. Much of it is global temp's that can harm reefs. If the temps keep rising like the spike from around the 1970's Earth will be a different place. Not saying it is all man made Earths temps & CO2 levels have been higher in the past, warmer planet. Much of the Syrian problem started because the farmers had no water. Fled to the cities and became militants just too survive.


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## labor of love (Jul 1, 2017)

@keith, you should try making your own almond milk if you haven't.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jul 1, 2017)

"Not knocking it vegan's need sharp knives too."

At least as much! There is hardly ever a piece de resistance that can be just cooked, plated and considered a problem of table knives with vegetarian and vegan food...

Unless using tertiary-processed (ready seasoned and shaped) substitutes - which, with the exception of tofu sausages in Budae Jjigae, I dislike with a passion.


....

About almond milk ... there's two kinds around, both called almond milk (or almond drink where the milk name is protected). One is made from almonds, water and maybe sugar/salt, and slightly more expensive than... the other kind which is made from god doesn't want to know what plus some almonds. The first kind is also the perfect consistency adjuster for ice cream bases.

...

Our kind doesn't need organic or vegetarian specialty stores nearly as much as the rest thinks... we go there for a few staples (baking margarine, live-culture soy yoghurt*, wine are my usual reasons ... vital wheat gluten, coconut oil, nondairy milks, and vegan chocolate are carried by a few supermarkets here by now). However, having at least half a dozen asian grocers and one turkish grocer in bus distance is essential.

*most supermarkets here only have the heavily processed version that is really unusable for savory cooking...


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 2, 2017)

I like Almond milk too. I can eat live culture Yoghurt. I have heard it cancels out the lactose.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jul 2, 2017)

Never understood why you can get non-dairy yoghurts for the same price, which are live enough that you can clone them ... and the mainstream versions are still dead and over-stabilized, over-sweetened stuff with too much beany/vanilla-ish taste...


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## foody518 (Jul 15, 2017)

I rewatched the Jeon Kwan episode of chef's table and remembered "oh yeah... Buddhist cooking is all plant based, isn't it..."


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jul 16, 2017)

Note: we aren't all leftist (or american "liberal") - considering your shopping list as your ballot is very, very capitalist thinking actually  The dude who said "against slavery? well then get no slaves!" might have been an ******* for other reasons, but the core of that statement is pure wisdom.


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## foody518 (Jul 16, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Note: we aren't all leftist (or american "liberal") - considering your shopping list as your ballot is very, very capitalist thinking actually  The dude who said "against slavery? well then get no slaves!" might have been an ******* for other reasons, but the core of that statement is pure wisdom.



Not sure what you are referring to?


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jul 16, 2017)

Just the stereotype that vegetarian/vegan people are commies


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## Khorax (Jul 20, 2017)

My wife is a registered dietitian and deals with them quite a bit, Vegan is ok as long as you are supplementing with vitamin B12. Very low B12 intakes can cause anemia and nervous system damage, and naturally found in animal products, including fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk, and milk products.
To get the full benefit of a vegan diet, vegans should do one of the following:
Eat fortified foods two or three times a day to get at least three micrograms (mcg or µg) of B12 a day
OR Take one B12 supplement daily providing at least 10 micrograms
OR Take a weekly B12 supplement providing at least 2000 micrograms.

When in doubt, consult your local dietitian... easier in Canada, because it's free. I think you have to pay to consult them in the US?


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## foody518 (Jul 20, 2017)

B12 is more of a soil/fecal matter thing right?

Yes, pretty sure I would have to pay to visit a dietician, especially outside of having a diagnosed disorder


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## boomchakabowwow (Jul 21, 2017)

i think i am day 8!! i have an end date in mind.

i dont think i will stay on it, but it definitely will reduce (drastically) my meat intake in the future. so far..piece of cake. easy.


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## foody518 (Aug 7, 2017)

larrybard said:


> And if you look at Forks Over Knives, you might want to also read this:
> https://deniseminger.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/



A reply to the Minger critiques
http://healthylongevity.blogspot.com/2012/08/forks-over-knives-and-healthy-longevity.html
http://healthylongevity.blogspot.com/2012/08/forks-over-knives-and-healthy-longevity_17.html


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## cheflivengood (Aug 7, 2017)

probably posted already but the documentary "What the Health" is very engaging, and if 100% factual, We should all be vegan


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 24, 2017)

OliverNuther said:


> I follow this diet. I supplement it with additional yeast, malt, barley and hops as required.



Yes:Beersausage: I got no beef with vegetarians. I like to eat salads grow my own lettuce & vine ripe tomatoes. Best salad bar in Honolulu is Down to Earth Veg. food store. The hot items depend greatly on the chef it was great for a while then got junk again with no quality person running the kitchen. They had a class on worm composting we went to it I expected a bunch of old Hippies, not that at all. Lady driving BMW at a worm class.

I would say a lot of vegans. are more Liberal. Bernie Sanders types at least here. You cannot stereotype though some do it just for health reasons.


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## panda (Aug 25, 2017)

plant based as in i eat stuff that eats plants??


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## Nemo (Aug 25, 2017)

panda said:


> plant based as in i eat stuff that eats plants??


Pretty sure that doesn't count.


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## LiLimoon (Jul 28, 2020)

Losing weight is not easy at all. I personally kept a diet recently that was recommended to me by a link on the forum and I lost 12 kg with this program in three months. And the biggest success is that I haven't added them back and still continue to maintain the weight I have reached. The results are phenomenal and I really recommend you to try all those who want to lose weight. All you will need is Noom food list ever needed which will help you go on this program and you will see how good you feel even following a diet. You can find it here modernfit.com


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## M1k3 (Jul 28, 2020)

I've started modifying my diet to be more plant centric. Started planning meals with emphasis on veggies as entree and everything else being a side dish. It's been pretty easy, as long as the veggies turn out good.


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## LostHighway (Jul 28, 2020)

I walk with the zombie threads

I've been a lax ovo-lacto vegetarian for decades (both the use of lard and sometimes chicken stock fall into the don't ask don't tell category). When we lived in Maine I started eating some seafood again so I guess that makes me a pescetarian or something to that effect. I'm quite tolerant of what my dining companions are eating, it can be steak tartare or foie gras, but I have little time for either the extremely preachy vegans or the followers of Paleo diets who insist that hominds evolved to eat a meat heavy diet (which is decidedly not what the science shows).


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 28, 2020)

We came from primates living in trees eating lots of fruit & nuts.

Brain evolved with walking on two legs highly nutritious meat & Seafood. Later with fire easier to digest. Smoky backyard grills serve a primal instinct.

Still we do well to eat more vegetables, fruit, & nuts. Not the processed stuff fresh. We like to make fresh salads with flaked grilled salmon on top. Healthy meal.

Prefer fresh beer too.


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## SeattleBen (Jul 28, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I've started modifying my diet to be more plant centric. Started planning meals with emphasis on veggies as entree and everything else being a side dish. It's been pretty easy, as long as the veggies turn out good.



We've moved in that direction as well. We do eat meat once or twice a week but it's definitely not as forward facing as it once was. This switch also allowed us to entirely switch to buying directly from the farmers, via farmer's market, which is a much better model. The amount of suffering in our food supply chain for factory sourced protein is unfathomable.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 28, 2020)

Not only factory protein. When meat cutters & produce pickers started getting cases of Covid. They still were encouraged to work. Many are Latino some undocumented. 

Trump ordered them as needed workers. Think about it most staying at home during shutdown only going to grocery or Costco, where do you think that food comes from. Comes from pickers & meat cutters.

At first no demands of safety. Just get the food out. If you can't work you are let go. Now getting a little better with California gov. getting on the ball.


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## SeattleBen (Jul 28, 2020)

The food supply chain is broken and our addled need for cheap food ignores an unspeakable amount of suffering would have been a better and more complete sentence. That .99/lb pork shoulder, or $2/lb tomato in winter causes huge problems. I'm blessed to be in a position to by and large be able to not support those systems and be able to support people engaged in regenerative agriculture on a local level.


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## M1k3 (Jul 28, 2020)

We still do roughly the same amount of meals with meat. But 1/4-1/2 the amount of meat. Which also affords us to spend a little more for better quality and/or source, for roughly same $ expenditure. For my wife and I, it was the easiest way to stay in somewhat familiar territory while eating healthier. And not doing some kind of diet. Or "missing" anything.


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## madelinez (Jul 28, 2020)

The healthiest I've ever felt was when I went pescatarian with no processed foods. I replaced all of my normal meat consumption with legumes and cutting out processed foods just meant I naturally ate more fruits, vegetables and nuts. Managed to do that for 18 months before the dishes I was making started to feel too repetitive. Lamb/chicken/beef just add so much variety, without them I was repeating the same meals too often.

I think a vegan diet is probably one of the healthier diets if you replace the meat with legumes/mushrooms instead of processed vegan-meat and junk food. Most vegans I know fail badly at this and aren't in great shape after a couple of years. I only know one girl that actually follows a healthy vegan diet, she also tries to compensate for the lack of B12 and Omega-3. I think Omega-3 is the trickiest because there's no plant based source of EPA/DHA and ALA doesn't convert well in most people.


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## Matt Zilliox (Jul 28, 2020)

sudsy9977 said:


> So I watched a few things recently on plant based diets. Has anybody ever tried anything like that ...did you miss eating meat? Any opinions. Ryan


I eat meat once or twice per month these days. I rarely buy meat to cook at home and if i do its sustainable blah blah blah.
I miss it some times, thats why i still eat it sometimes.
but im much better off, and much more lean after moving away from meat. and its way fun to learn to cook without the flavor crutch.


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## M1k3 (Jul 28, 2020)

I think the best thing is cutting out processed junk. Beyond that just putting some effort into healthier choices/portions and staying active goes along way.

Bonus! We no longer worry about vitamin supplements.


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## M1k3 (Jul 28, 2020)

madelinez said:


> The healthiest I've ever felt was when I went pescatarian with no processed foods. I replaced all of my normal meat consumption with legumes and cutting out processed foods just meant I naturally ate more fruits, vegetables and nuts. Managed to do that for 18 months before the dishes I was making started to feel too repetitive. Lamb/chicken/beef just add so much variety, without them I was repeating the same meals too often.
> 
> I think a vegan diet is probably one of the healthier diets if you replace the meat with legumes/mushrooms instead of processed vegan-meat and junk food. Most vegans I know fail badly at this and aren't in great shape after a couple of years. I only know one girl that actually follows a healthy vegan diet, she also tries to compensate for the lack of B12 and Omega-3. I think Omega-3 is the trickiest because there's no plant based source of EPA/DHA and ALA doesn't convert well in most people.


We've added legumes, barley and other things. The "starch" side of the "meat, veg, potatoes" we've played around with some, subbing legumes or grains. Or doing a "soup" course also, usually vegan or almost vegan because of meat broth.


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## M1k3 (Jul 28, 2020)

But we still have "THOSE" meals. You know, a big ole chunk of meat and lots of fatty starch. Topped off with sugary, fatty, sometimes full of gluten dessert.


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## SeattleBen (Jul 29, 2020)

There’s something primal and very enjoyable about a big whack of meat and some robuchon style pommes purée.


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## Geigs (Jul 29, 2020)

madelinez said:


> The healthiest I've ever felt was when I went pescatarian with no processed foods. I replaced all of my normal meat consumption with legumes and cutting out processed foods just meant I naturally ate more fruits, vegetables and nuts. Managed to do that for 18 months before the dishes I was making started to feel too repetitive. Lamb/chicken/beef just add so much variety, without them I was repeating the same meals too often.
> 
> I think a vegan diet is probably one of the healthier diets if you replace the meat with legumes/mushrooms instead of processed vegan-meat and junk food. Most vegans I know fail badly at this and aren't in great shape after a couple of years. I only know one girl that actually follows a healthy vegan diet, she also tries to compensate for the lack of B12 and Omega-3. I think Omega-3 is the trickiest because there's no plant based source of EPA/DHA and ALA doesn't convert well in most people.


 EHA and DHA are both plant based, you just eat them once they've bioaccumulated in fish. Algae synthesize these, and you can get purified forms from algae without the fish intermediate.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 29, 2020)

Huli Huli chix over kaiwe wood & coals. My favorite bird. 

The soy based fake meat is healthy Seventh day Adventist eat a lot of that stuff live to over 100.

We get the Rocket fake grown meat. I throw it in lots of stuff these days. Have a herb garden. Can "elevate" the flavors.

We got the stuff from a demo at Japanese cultural center. The guy selling it had triple bypass surgery years now he is skinny & healthy.

Called up to reorder couple bags. Gave us free shipping. Same Island got it in two days.


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## madelinez (Jul 29, 2020)

Geigs said:


> EHA and DHA are both plant based, you just eat them once they've bioaccumulated in fish. Algae synthesize these, and you can get purified forms from algae without the fish intermediate.



Good to know, I've never seen non-fish EPA/DHA products. Makes sense though since it is algae based, I'm looking forward to the GM canola seed that contains the same gene, easy omega-3 intake.


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## VicVox72 (Aug 2, 2020)

I have been oscillating between vegetarian, vegan, and pescetarian for the last ten years. Which diet I follow mostly depends on what is locally available, affordable, and high quality. Living on the west coast, I just cannot resist ultra fresh sustainable fish. I have also experimented with plants+fish but, despite what you might think of west coast USA, it's actually substantially harder to be pesce-vegan here than in my native Germany. So many great milk-product substitute products don't exist here. 

I find myself have the best sports performance when eating virtually just veggies, beans, and accent meals of fish. Corn and wheat definitely bloat me, as does milk. Eggs, cheese, and such lead me towards unhealthy meals but of course you could also make great high performance healthy food out of them. 

I'd definitely encourage anyone to cut as much meat and low quality milk out of their diet as possible. Adults don't need huge amounts of calcium and low fat milk is actually just sugar water at that point.


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## VicVox72 (Aug 2, 2020)

One additional thing: 

I think there is no ethical, environmental, or health reason to avoid a small subset of animal derived foods, namely: mussles, clams, and insects. All three, in my books at least, do not have ethical standing commensurate with other wildlife and farming them actually frees up land relative to even high efficiency non-meat farming, in terms of land area, fetilizer, etc per calorie or gram of protein. Thus, eating insects likely saves loves of endangered animals and such

They are also super tasty and healthy


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## Dave Martell (Aug 2, 2020)

I did the vegan thing for 2-3 yrs back in my late 20's. I felt pretty good and then started to work out, mostly bike riding and got super fit. Then one night I smelled Burger King and in a moment of weakness I goorfed down a hamburger - 1 hr later I was in an ambulance in the absolute worst pain I've ever had in my life. Turns out that it's not so good for some people to quit meat altogether and I happened to be one of them. What happened was that my gall bladder took a crap inside me when it tasted the Burger King and had to be emergency removed the next day. This then led to floating gall stones (which had to be removed) in the common bile duct (more pain!) that somehow taxed my liver so badly that I had to spend 9 days in the hospital while hoping not to die from liver failure. After the recovery from that I had to quit drinking (which maybe was the reason for the weak liver in the first place) and I never stopped eating meat again. Of course now I'm an out of shape fat body with no energy...so there's that.


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## panda (Aug 2, 2020)

i have never in my life woke up in the morning and wanted to eat a raw carrot for breakfast instead of bacon and eggs.


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## Twigg (Aug 4, 2020)

I tried being a vegetarian for about 4 years when I was in my 20s. It was difficult for me to keep up my weight then. I felt good, just looked like a bag of bones. Now that I am in my 40s, I found that loosely following a Mediterranean diet, only drinking water, black coffee and beer along with exercise produces the best results. I do eat healthy snacks, but I don't worry too much about it. For exercise, I road cycle mostly and run a bit.


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## sethm (Aug 19, 2020)

I started about a year ago (mostly vegan) and was astonished by how much better my vitals became. I have always been healthy (for the most part) but so far so good. I do miss red meat but that is a discussion for another day! I have a really nice smoker in the garage.


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## Moooza (Aug 19, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> I did the vegan thing for 2-3 yrs back in my late 20's. I felt pretty good and then started to work out, mostly bike riding and got super fit. Then one night I smelled Burger King and in a moment of weakness I goorfed down a hamburger - 1 hr later I was in an ambulance in the absolute worst pain I've ever had in my life. Turns out that it's not so good for some people to quit meat altogether and I happened to be one of them. What happened was that my gall bladder took a crap inside me when it tasted the Burger King and had to be emergency removed the next day. This then led to floating gall stones (which had to be removed) in the common bile duct (more pain!) that somehow taxed my liver so badly that I had to spend 9 days in the hospital while hoping not to die from liver failure. After the recovery from that I had to quit drinking (which maybe was the reason for the weak liver in the first place) and I never stopped eating meat again. Of course now I'm an out of shape fat body with no energy...so there's that.



I think that's pretty normal for anyone eating Burger King ;-)

Seriously, glad you're ok.


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## sethm (Aug 19, 2020)

Funny thing, I am about to send you some knives to be sharpened. Some might even be made by you.
Don't cut yourself!


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## sethm (Aug 19, 2020)

Also, everyone knows that Wendys is better than the King...


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## ArthurHolo (Aug 19, 2020)

As far as I know (I'm not professional and not trying to persuade you) but it's not very good to eat only vegetables or only meat. It's better to eat everything, unless you have an allergie or smth, but in a small portions.
As an example:
1: eggs or oatmeals 
2: nuts/peanut butter/apples
3: meat or fish and rice
4: meat or fish and rice + vegetables
5: yogurt with fruits

Because your body needs full complex of vitamins to work and stay energetic


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## sethm (Aug 20, 2020)

Thank you for the post. However, that is not necessarily true. There are many great resources and studies that would support otherwise. It is not easy at times but everyone needs to make their own choices.


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