# A Kono 210 comparison



## esoo (Nov 3, 2020)

So 2020 has brought many strange things due to COVID, one of them the being that I’ve seemed to start a Konosuke collection. It started with a HD2, then a sale getting me a FM in White 2, another sale garnering me a YS-M, and then realizing I’m not going to spend the money on a Kaiju, so I bought a MM in Blue 2 instead.











Having all the blades, it seems to be a ready made comparison, since they are all 210s. This expands on my other Kono review thread. 

First some specifications and opening comments. 

*HD2







*

Length – 199mm
Height – 49mm
Weight – 131g (as tested)

So a classic from Konosuke. Some call it a laser, some call it a light midweight. I’ve rehandled this one, so this comparison is based on it in that shape. It came with the stock Ho wood handle (which I’m not a fan of), and I replaced it with an Indian Rosewood and Tigrilo handle. I was attempting to get as light a handle as possible to not move the balance point, but it did end heavier than stock. This changed the blade from 121g to now 131g. This moved the balance point back to the heel, and it makes the knife feel more solid in the hand. You do lose a bit nimbleness, but it suits the blade that isn’t quite laser thin by todays standards.
The only patina I’ve seen on this knife so far seems to have be generated by water spots rather than product. I washed it one day and put it down to wash something else before drying and they they were on the blade.

*FM (White #2)







*

Length – 199mm
Height – 46mm
Weight – 117g

I’ll be honest – this wasn’t quite the blade I was hoping for. When I ordered it from Bernal, they listed the weight at 133g, so to get something at 117g was a bit of a surprise. Since my HD2 hadn’t been rehandled at that point, I wasn’t looking for another lightweight knife.

Now, at 117g, I’m impressed with how stiff and hard this blade is. My last knife that was 117g was a Kotetsu 180mm Bunka in R2. That was a wicked knife, but the edge was so thin you’d have to be careful not to twist it while it was on the board. I’d heard that blade ting a few times as it released. None of that with the FM – it is stiff, rigid blade that feels right at home doing just about anything.

The more observant of you may notice that this one is missing the bead blast on the sides. I’ve taken it to 800 grit sandpaper finish on both side, as it had been scratched and I hated the bead blast. What It hid was a really nice cladding line. It is still sort-of rough scratched when you see it in person, and his knife deserves a nice kasumi finish that I neither have the skills or the time to accomplish.

When it does have a patina it is not too crazy.

*YS-M*









Length – 213mm
Height – 46mm
Weight – 133g

The midweight with a super thin behind the edge grind. The hammer finish along with the kurouchi on top is quite nice. Not a super fan of the bead blast as it’s gotten scratched and now I’m not sure how to clean it up. Did lose a mm of the tip at one point - must of just tapped in on something as I could feel it was bent.

To me, this is different steel than the HD2 (although some say it is the same). I base this on the fact that the core steel took on a really nice patina just from cutting up about half a dozen roasted peppers.

Forum rumors says this is made by Yoshikane. When I said that to Kosuke, his response was “Thank you for checking the information!”, so I don’t know what to believe.

*MM (Blue 2)







*

Length – 200mm
Height – 49mm
Weight – 172g

Forged by Ms. Mori and sharpened by Myojin. This is the oddball in the lineup being a full midweight. My first Blue 2 blade so I’m still learning about the steel. My impression is that it is clad in different iron than the FM as it patina’s differently. I much prefer this for patina over the FM as it get a more vibrant patina, including on the core.

Where the FM feels “hard”, the MM feels “tough”. The MM feels like a more robust blade vs the FM and YS-M – likely due to the lower HRC. That said, it does feel more robust than the HD2.


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## esoo (Nov 3, 2020)

Okay, so now for the ratings. 

To explain my numbers, I just tried to choose a scoring that made sense for me. I tried to scale it so a 2 is twice as good as a 1, and a 0.75 is a quarter off being a 1. For each category, treat the ratings as ratio to each other.

*Fit and Finish*

FM – 1
HD2 - 0.75
MM - 1
YS-M – 1.5

These are Konosuke – fit and finish are their strong point. Everything is rounded and well done. I docked the HD2 slightly as the choil area is not as well rounded as the other blades. The FM could get a bit more than a point due to the chamfered spine, but that has its drawbacks as well. The chamfer makes for the narrowest spine point of contact against the hand in the pinch – this could make a hotspot, but in my testing so far, the grind alleviates that.

Now let me say – I generally don’t like the Konosuke handles. They are a bit to small, and the edges of the octagon are too sharp. A few minutes with some sandpaper could have just softened them. The exception to that is the one on the YS-M – the finish on my sample is perfect and it suits the knife better than the rest, which is why it got a bonus half a point.

*Edge Retention*

FM – 0
HD2 – 1
MM – 0.5
YS-M – 1

Okay, the FM is in White #2 which doesn’t have the best edge retention. It is only one of two knives that I’ve had recently that actually skipped on pepper skins before I had decided to put it to the stones. This includes my Tojiro Shirogami that I leave as beaters, so I wasn’t impressed. Hence the zero.

The HD2 and YS-M just seem to keep on cutting without any issue. As a not great sharpener, having something I don’t have to sharpen often is nice.

The MM hasn’t been around long enough to really push the retention. On the other side of that for the amount that I’ve used it, it is still very serviceable sharp. The score on this could go either way depend on how time passes, so that’s why it was given a middle ground mark

*Sharpening*

FM – .5
HD2 - 1
MM - .75
YS-M - 1

First things first – at best I could be considered an average sharpener. I can get my blades working sharp for me, but I suspect that others might not find my blade sharp enough to their liking.

I know White 2 is supposed to be easy to sharpen, but I’ve had my challenges with the FM. Maybe it’s just the high hardness of the blade, but for a steel that is supposed to be easy, it’s taken me more work to get it my happy sharp place, hence its low score

The MM has only been touched up, which went easily, so it’s gotten a middle mark. Longer term use could take this up or down.

For the HD2, I’ve only ever touched it up a couple of times on principle more than anything else. A few limited passes on a Rika and it gets a wonderful tooth working edge. I like the combo of long edge retention and easiness to bring it back.

The YS-M is pretty much the same as the HD2 so far, I’ve just touched it up less.

*Profile*

FM – 1
HD2-1
MM-1
YS-M - 1

As someone who both rock-chops and push cuts (along with some draw cuts), I find all these blades well suited to me, hence the equal scores. The YS-M could be eligible for some extra marks here as the longer blade just gives more flat to work with, but there is an offsetting problem – out of the box, when you rock the blade, it comes to a very hard stop at the heel that is slightly uncomfortable. I know that can be fixed, but that the way it is right now.

*Grind*

FM – 1
HD2 – 0
MM – 2
YS-M – 2

The HD2 is basically flat ground so it gets no points. I could give it something as it is thinner than a lot of blades, but near straight sides do no make a grind.

The FM has a nice convex grind, but being somewhat thin, there is only so much Myojin can do.

Now on the beefier MM however Myojin really shines – the blade near the heel has a really nice convex grind but as you progress toward the tip the grind gets flatter/thinner until it nears totally flat right at the tip. This really works well as you get a thin precise tip for things like onions but a more solid heel for sturdier product.

The YS-M grind feels like a nice convex grind and thin behind the edge. Again as the blade is thicker near the spine than the FM, there is more convexing than the FM, but it is different than the MM. Behind the edge on the YS-M seems thinner than the MM, and it equates into a different cutting experience.

*Cutting*

FM – 1
HD2 – 0.75
MM – 1.5
YS-M – 2

The FM and HD2 are “good” cutters – they go through product adeptly and I could be happy with either blade. The FM gets the advantage by the quarter point simple by having done a back to back comparison - it does slide through product better. If it hadn’t been for that head to head, I’d rate them about equal.

The MM gets the half point over the FM due to it’s grind – the tip flies through onions better, while the thicker heel release food better. It also seems to go through things likes carrots a bit nicer.

The YS-M is just plain fun to cut with. The MM might has a better tip for onions, but everything else I just find a joy to cut with the YS-M and the rating reflects that. The grind just has a way of going through product in a way that none of the other match. Easily my favorite knife at the moment. I have to force myself to pull the other off the magnetic rack.


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## esoo (Nov 3, 2020)

*Final Scores*

Now remember that these ratings are based on the knives that I have and my personal preferences as I post this. A year from now, it could've come out differently.






The FM and the HD2? The FM is the better cutter, but I also value the ease of sharpening and the edge retention of the HD2, so I would value either of these knives about the same.

The MM is the oddball here – a midweight. I personally think it is unfortunate that this line is probably never to be seen again. It didn’t have the Y Tanaka name to draw people in, but I personally think it is a better knife than the FM (or at least the laser FM W#2 that I got). I’d be really curious how a FM in Blue or Kaiju in this length compares to the MM. The thing is, this is such a good knife, I don’t have the urge to spend the money to find out

The YS-M is just a great knife that I love to pull off my rack. To me I classify this as the HD2 and FM got together and had a kid - great grind and great steel. The only negative is the stop on the grind when rocking, and I know that a little work on the stones could fix that. If my whole collection of knives were to disappear tomorrow, this would be the first I would buy.

Now, you may notice I did not say anything about if these knives were a good value. The MM is the only knife that I paid full price for, and I only did that as I wanted to try it and it was the last in stock at CKtG. That said, in general, I would not pay standard retail for any of these knives, but I’m sort-of cheap. The other three were all bought on sale, so below standard retail prices. For me, that brought them into what I would consider reasonable range.

I’ve never really considered myself to be a collector, so to have 4 of the same size blade seems odd. I’m struggling with my next steps – do I sell and pare down, or do I just keep going and get a few more and rotate them through my rack. A Sumiiro 210 in SLD would be a nice complement to the rest of the rack. Decision, decisions….


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## esoo (Nov 4, 2020)

Just to add in patina shots: YS-M and MM


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## esoo (Nov 4, 2020)

esoo said:


> I’ve never really considered myself to be a collector, so to have 4 of the same size blade seems odd. I’m struggling with my next steps – do I sell and pare down, or do I just keep going and get a few more and rotate them through my rack. A Sumiiro 210 in SLD would be a nice complement to the rest of the rack. Decision, decisions….



Well, my morning daily check on Instagram just answered that question for me....


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## chappychap (Nov 4, 2020)

Really fantastic comparison - thanks for taking the time.


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## esoo (Nov 4, 2020)

And another point of context:
HD2 owned for 7 months
FM owned for 5 months
YS-M owned for 3 months
MM owned for a little over a month.


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## Taz575 (Nov 4, 2020)

Just a tip, to smooth out the sandblasted finish, use some non woven abrasive pads. Woodworking stores typically have it. Some hardware stores have very coarse ones as well. They really help to smooth out the sandblasted finish and make it less sticky. I start with a medium and try to go to fine and ex fine.

Something like this:


Amazon.com



They also help give a nice satin finish to the blade and are good for removing patina or blending scratches/scuffs.


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## juice (Nov 4, 2020)

esoo said:


> I’m struggling with my next steps – do I sell and pare down, or do I just keep going and get a few more and rotate them through my rack.


Sell everything except the YS-M. Seems kinda obvious.


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## esoo (Nov 4, 2020)

juice said:


> Sell everything except the YS-M. Seems kinda obvious.



Given today’s events, that is looking like my plan


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## friz (Nov 4, 2020)

Thank you so much for this comparison and reviews of these blades. Fantastic job @esoo !


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## M1k3 (Nov 5, 2020)

juice said:


> Sell everything except the YS-M. Seems kinda obvious.


I concure. Yoshikane makes great cutters.


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## chappychap (Nov 23, 2020)

esoo said:


> And another point of context:
> HD2 owned for 7 months
> FM owned for 5 months
> YS-M owned for 3 months
> MM owned for a little over a month.



Hey Esoo! Still enjoying your comparison and it's at the centre of a dilemma I have right now. Hoping you can share more on your experiences to steer me on the right path. My inlaws are very kindly offering to buy me a knife as a gift. 

Initially I was going to get the HD2 because I generally enjoy lasers OR more hefty and well-ground knives with enough weight + grind to basically feel laser-ey during cutting (e.g. my Toyama). 

And then I found this thread raving about the YS. 

I'm sensing it may be a mid-weight and I'm nervous. My experience with mid-weights like the Masagake Koishi hasn't been super - kind of feel like they can fall between two stools, not hitting that laser feel sure to thinness, NEITHER achieving a laser-ey cutting feel by being assisted by the added weight described above. Was underwhelmed by Koishi on carrots Vs my Shibata or my Toyama, as an example. Some may disagree and that's just my current viewpoint. Maybe that will improve as I get to know the Koishi better.

But overall I'm looking at the mid-range weight of the YS and hoping that it doesn't fall into this no man's land for me. With my current feelings about my Koishi, it doesn't make sense to essentially get another Koishi. My questions for you:

- How laser-ey does the YS feel during cutting? 
- Knowing my above preferences/dilemma... which would you go for?
- any thoughts on where the Kono SKD would fit in with the above?

Thanks for any guidance you can offer.


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## JDC (Nov 23, 2020)

Out of the box, the YS-M is one of the thinnest knives behind the edge. As thin as my Fujiyama FM, if not thinner. The grind is nearly flat, with a slight convex, which makes it super laser-ey: doesn't wedge carrots, cuts celery silently without feeling anything, etc. Some thin slices may stick to the bevels, but not often. 

However, based my experience from my 210, it's not something that the weight can aid you much when cutting - still an agile laser-ey knife. Maybe one will feel differently with a 240.


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## chappychap (Nov 23, 2020)

JDC said:


> Out of the box, the YS-M is one of the thinnest knives behind the edge. As thin as my Fujiyama FM, if not thinner. The grind is nearly flat, with a slight convex, which makes it super laser-ey: doesn't wedge carrots, cuts celery silently without feeling anything, etc. Some thin slices may stick to the bevels, but not often.
> 
> However, based my experience from my 210, it's not something that the weight can aid you much when cutting - still an agile laser-ey knife. Maybe one will feel differently with a 240.


Thanks... super helpful. Any feeling on the SKD comparatively?


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## JDC (Nov 23, 2020)

Never used the SKD version, but the grind looks quite similar. 
It seems to be a more popular knife, so if you ended up with it and didn't like, BST is your fail-safe...


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## JDC (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh one more thing, the YS-M's steel can be really sharp, but it does feel less toothy then my other knives. Maybe SKD is better on this aspect.


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## esoo (Nov 23, 2020)

chappychap said:


> Hey Esoo! Still enjoying your comparison and it's at the centre of a dilemma I have right now. Hoping you can share more on your experiences to steer me on the right path. My inlaws are very kindly offering to buy me a knife as a gift.
> 
> Initially I was going to get the HD2 because I generally enjoy lasers OR more hefty and well-ground knives with enough weight + grind to basically feel laser-ey during cutting (e.g. my Toyama).
> 
> ...



Even thought the YS-M is a bit heavier than the others here, it definitely feels like a laser. As mentioned it is very thin behind the edge but not Shibata thin. The thicker spine makes the grind more functional that the something like a Kotetsu. 

Haven't tried a SKD, but am looking currently at a Yoshikane SKD to round out part of my kit, so that will be a curious comparison.

If you're looking for the best cutter between the YS-M and HD2, it is easily the YS-M. The HD2 is thicker behind the edge, so it doesn't give you as much of the smooth sliding into product feeling. But sometimes that slightly thicker edge is what you want to use and the HD2 is good for that. The HD2 is also wicked easy to put a nice toothy edge onto. Touch up on the YS-M has been easy, but it doesn't feel as toothy off the same stones.


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## Bear (Nov 23, 2020)

I have both the ys(210) and skd(240), I do prefer the steel on the SKD, it seems to hold the edge a touch better and gets a little sharper, both are very thin behind the edge. I also have a Koishi and no they are not the same feeling knives, me personally I wouldn't call the ys or the skd a laser, but as long as you don't mind the lower heel you wouldn't be disappointed with either.


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## chappychap (Nov 23, 2020)

Thanks Esso and JDC, super helpful. 



Bear said:


> I have both the ys(210) and skd(240), I do prefer the steel on the SKD, it seems to hold the edge a touch better and gets a little sharper, both are very thin behind the edge. I also have a Koishi and no they are not the same feeling knives, me personally I wouldn't call the ys or the skd a laser, but as long as you don't mind the lower heel you wouldn't be disappointed with either.



Tough question I know... but can I ask if you prefer your 210 or 240? That's the last thing I'm weighing. Was just literally upstairs comparing my Kurosaki 240 to the 210 Koishi... leaning towards 210... even in cramped spaces I *think* I can make a 240 work. Put another way - any regrets on getting that YS in 210 instead of 240?


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## Bear (Nov 23, 2020)

chappychap said:


> Thanks Esso and JDC, super helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> Tough question I know... but can I ask if you prefer your 210 or 240? That's the last thing I'm weighing. Was just literally upstairs comparing my Kurosaki 240 to the 210 Koishi... leaning towards 210... even in cramped spaces I *think* I can make a 240 work. Put another way - any regrets on getting that YS in 210 instead of 240?


My preferred length is 210-225, these are full length knives so 210 on the ys is fine, if the skd was a 210 I probably wouldn’t have a ys right now.


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## JDC (Nov 23, 2020)

esoo said:


> Even thought the YS-M is a bit heavier than the others here, it definitely feels like a laser. As mentioned it is very thin behind the edge but not Shibata thin. The thicker spine makes the grind more functional that the something like a Kotetsu.
> 
> Haven't tried a SKD, but am looking currently at a Yoshikane SKD to round out part of my kit, so that will be a curious comparison.
> 
> If you're looking for the best cutter between the YS-M and HD2, it is easily the YS-M. The HD2 is thicker behind the edge, so it doesn't give you as much of the smooth sliding into product feeling. But sometimes that slightly thicker edge is what you want to use and the HD2 is good for that. The HD2 is also wicked easy to put a nice toothy edge onto. Touch up on the YS-M has been easy, but it doesn't feel as toothy off the same stones.


Mostly agree, only thing I I want to add is, my ysm is thinner than a shibata bunka < 6mm behind the edge, and thicker after that. Performance wise, ysm wins because of that, and I had to go through a painful regrind to make the shibata perform similarly 



JDC said:


> Now the bunka becomes a true laser...
> Complete refinish with even thinner grind + reversely tapered hira for food release.


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## JDC (Nov 23, 2020)

chappychap said:


> Thanks Esso and JDC, super helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> Tough question I know... but can I ask if you prefer your 210 or 240? That's the last thing I'm weighing. Was just literally upstairs comparing my Kurosaki 240 to the 210 Koishi... leaning towards 210... even in cramped spaces I *think* I can make a 240 work. Put another way - any regrets on getting that YS in 210 instead of 240?



Regarding the length, I find ysm 210 a tad smaller to my preference, just a tad. Wishing to try a 240, but won’t hesitate to buy if they have a 225-230 version.


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## esoo (Nov 23, 2020)

JDC said:


> Mostly agree, only thing I I want to add is, my ysm is thinner than a shibata bunka < 6mm behind the edge, and thicker after that. Performance wise, ysm wins because of that, and I had to go through a painful regrind to make the shibata perform similarly



The Shibata bunka I had (bought here used), was hyper thin at the edge. It slid into carrots like nothing I've ever touched. I sold mine as it was too thin for me to be generally comfortable with - I don't mind picking up a heavier knife for certain duties, but the rest of the time, I just want to pull stuff off my rack without a care.


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## JDC (Nov 23, 2020)

esoo said:


> The Shibata bunka I had (bought here used), was hyper thin at the edge. It slid into carrots like nothing I've ever touched. I sold mine as it was too thin for me to be generally comfortable with - I don't mind picking up a heavier knife for certain duties, but the rest of the time, I just want to pull stuff off my rack without a care.


Ah that makes sense, mind to reveal the store? Mine was from homebutcher. Now I start to wonder if shibata ships knives unsharpened and the stores perform the final sharpening.


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## Bear (Nov 23, 2020)

JDC said:


> Ah that makes sense, mind to reveal the store? Mine was from homebutcher. Now I start to wonder if shibata ships knives unsharpened and the stores perform the final sharpening.


I'm pretty shure he does the sharpening, I've had three of his knives, I still have my Bunka its not going anywhere.


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## JDC (Nov 23, 2020)

Bear said:


> I'm pretty shure he does the sharpening, I've had three of his knives, I still have my Bunka its not going anywhere.



It’s a great knife, fun.
Now I really don’t know why mine was thick behind the edge. Not super thick but no where near what esoo just described.


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## esoo (Nov 23, 2020)

JDC said:


> Ah that makes sense, mind to reveal the store? Mine was from homebutcher. Now I start to wonder if shibata ships knives unsharpened and the stores perform the final sharpening.



I bought the Shibata Bunka from @toddnmd off the BST in 2018. He may be able to say which vendor sold it to him. 

If I have rack space, it may be a knife I purchase again. It's fun when in use, but it has it's drawbacks (poor food release, making sure not torque the edge, and thin spine making long session pinch grip a pain)


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## JDC (Nov 23, 2020)

esoo said:


> As I said, I bought the Shibata from @toddnmd off the BST in 2018. I sold it as I just got tired of the stress when I took it off the bar of carrying for the edge and my rule is
> 
> 
> I bought the Shibata Bunka from @toddnmd off the BST in 2018. He may be able to say which vendor sold it to him.
> ...


Got it, thanks! I'm just a home cook so it's perfect for quick sessions, but agreed, not so enjoyable pinching for a long time.


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## toddnmd (Nov 24, 2020)

esoo said:


> I bought the Shibata Bunka from @toddnmd off the BST in 2018. He may be able to say which vendor sold it to him.
> 
> If I have rack space, it may be a knife I purchase again. It's fun when in use, but it has it's drawbacks (poor food release, making sure not torque the edge, and thin spine making long session pinch grip a pain)



I bought the knife from Carbon Knife Co.
Given Shibata’s reputation as a sharpener (which also includes grinding), I’d be very surprised if the knife wasn’t fully sharpened before delivery to the vendor. I think I’ve seen numerous comments about Shibatas arriving very sharp ootb.


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## JDC (Nov 24, 2020)

toddnmd said:


> I bought the knife from Carbon Knife Co.
> Given Shibata’s reputation as a sharpener (which also includes grinding), I’d be very surprised if the knife wasn’t fully sharpened before delivery to the vendor. I think I’ve seen numerous comments about Shibatas arriving very sharp ootb.



yeah mine was very sharp ootb, flied through many things but still wedged carrots


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## chappychap (Nov 24, 2020)

Just a message to say thanks to the OP and all the folks that responded to my follow up questions. I just pushed the button on a 240 SKD as it sounds very similar to the YS but with a couple extra minor qualities I appreciate in the steel and look. I asked for a slightly undersized 240 sample if they have one. Thanks again, this is a really great thread.


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## chappychap (Nov 27, 2020)

Received this stunning Konosuke SKD in the post today. My interaction was limited to 'an inspection' and I can't wait to use it during the holidays. Thanks again for the advice on this thread.


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## JDC (Nov 27, 2020)

chappychap said:


> Received this stunning Konosuke SKD in the post today. My interaction was limited to 'an inspection' and I can't wait to use it during the holidays. Thanks again for the advice on this thread.


Congrats! 240? The finish on this version looks like a marriage between YS and tsuchime, pretty cool to me!


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## Bear (Nov 27, 2020)

Nice, the finish is allot different than mine, that's more of a KU finish.


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## chappychap (Nov 27, 2020)

Thanks! Yeah 240. I umm'ed and ahh'ed on size for a long time, but went 240. As context/background on this issue I gambled with my first gyuto being 240, a Kurosaki Reijin, and I remember that at the time it felt like a gigantic sword. It was a little intimidating for a while. However over time I got used to it, and now find I only reach for a 210 when I'm looking for a 'smaller' knife. That's absolutely desirable some days, in a similar way that sometimes it just 'fits my mood and the task' to pick up a smaller knife like a 150 petty or 165 nakiri. But generally a 240 just feels good most days now. That said I have a fairly aggressive pinch grip so this also perhaps contributes to why long blades don't feel so long anymore. As a result every time I choose between buying a 240 and a 210 I end up going 240, for perceived value and versatility, especially when I think about how I might well need to end up cooking/prepping in larger volumes down the line - a 240 feels like future proofing. That said I can still absolutely see myself adding another 210, for example to use when travelling and using a small kitchen. I'm still lusting to rebuy a 210 Konosuke HD2 I reluctantly returned to try to be fiscally responsible(ish), after realising I had spent far too much than was reasonable on knives in one month. Its small size and lightweight felt like such a great fit for for that travel scenario, given I'd always have my beater with me anyway. 

All that's to say the luxury / variety is something I enjoy, and whilst I generally seem to gravitate towards 240 for the every day, I can absolutely see the appeal of 210s.

On the finish, yeah it's a bit of an everything bagel of gyutos! Tsuchime kurouchi nashiji. I wasn't originally planning that much complexity in the finish but I really like it.


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## JDC (Nov 28, 2020)

Interesting experience! This skd would probably feel very different than the kurosaki despite a similar size. Let us know how you like it on the board!


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## esoo (Dec 6, 2020)

So the past month I've been using the MM almost exclusively and really getting in a groove with it. One of the things that I'm starting to appreciate is the heavier weight.

A few weeks ago I was carving up a chicken I'd cooked with the MM, and in a fit of laziness I went through a rib bone. When I examined the knife after washing it, I noticed I'd slightly deformed the edge at that point. You could see it as a difference in the reflection of the grind, and it made the slightest catch of the fingernail when ran along the edge. Not really wanting to do a full progression on the stones, I took out my Shapton Glass 6000 and did 10 heel to tip passes per side with what I consider a fair bit of pressure and sharpened out the deformation. The Blue 2 steel seemed to really like this - it feels more of a smooth slicey edge than a toothy one, but it cuts extremely well.


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## ref (Dec 9, 2020)

esoo said:


> and in a fit of laziness I went through a rib bone.



I'm guessing you were more lucky here than anything else. My MM's grind is very much a laser, despite being a bit thicker at the spine than other lasers. If it were to survive (i.e., not chip) bone, I wouldn't put it down to the grind or anything but just luck on the day. It's the thinnest knife I've ever had.


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## esoo (Dec 9, 2020)

The grind on my MM is not a laser grind - the YS-M is thinner behind the edge and a Shibata is way thinner behind the edge.

If I'd had the YS-M in my hand, I would've changed knives. My MM gives me (mostly) the confidence to due stuff like this. It just feels tough.


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## ref (Dec 9, 2020)

esoo said:


> The grind on my MM is not a laser grind - the YS-M is thinner behind the edge and a Shibata is way thinner behind the edge.
> 
> If I'd had the YS-M in my hand, I would've changed knives. My MM gives me (mostly) the confidence to due stuff like this. It just feels tough.


That's strange, do you have a choil pic of your mm?


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## esoo (Dec 9, 2020)

Just measured as best as I could:

MM - .20mm thick right behind the edge at the heel
YS-M - .15mm thick right behind the edge at the heel.

MM choil shot:


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## ref (Dec 9, 2020)

Ah, mine is quite a bit different to yours, that's interesting.


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## esoo (Dec 20, 2020)

So used the YS-M today to make a double batch of minestrone (about 10 quarts). Used a variety of techniques to chop up all the veg (push cut, rock chop and tap chop). Could've wished for a bit better food release (but this could be my technique) and was wanting a 240 for this bigger prep. Otherwise, it went through everything like a dream.


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## esoo (Dec 29, 2020)

So the FM has been traded out of the collection - traded for a Kagekiyo 240 kiritsuke gyuto in white 2.

The two Kono's that have been on the rack have been the MM and the YS-M. 95% of the time, I grab the MM. I think this is due to two reasons - first is that I'm really appreciating the bit more heft of the knife, and second that the the slightly thicker edge on the MM makes me feel more confident to just bash at stuff than the YS-M. When I switch back and forth, the YS-M is still a better cutter but the MM is no slouch.

I also have to say that I've been quite impressed with the Blue 2 in the MM. I have no other blue to compare it to, but the MM is holding an edge wonderfully in my home kitchen. It hasn't touched the stones in a month, and I've beaten on it with rock, push and tap chopping and it's still holding up fine. This is against edge grain maple and beech cutting boards.


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## Knivperson (Jan 13, 2021)

@esoo How was FM compared to YS-M and MM? I'm considering getting one of those.

Thanks for all the descriptions.


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## esoo (Jan 13, 2021)

To me the FM (in White 2) is what I would consider a decent quality J-Knife. Top quality fit and finish, nice convex grind and handles as a good cutter. It was nice, but I don't think it is worthy of the hype. IMO, the White 2 is a let down as it dulls too easily.

The YS-M is one of the best cutters that I've handled. Just a fun knife to use. it is thin hard steel so technique needs to be good. Easier to sharpen.

The MM is what I wish the FM I had would be - same fit and finish, better grind (more convex at the heel, but moving to a thinner grind at the tip) and I *love* the blue 2 steel - keeps a wonderful edge forever in my home kitchen.


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## Knivperson (Jan 14, 2021)

So, of the three. Do you prefer the MM? 

What if you could get a FM in blue #2 or #1?


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## esoo (Jan 14, 2021)

Since I've only had one of each MM and FM, if the grinds were the same as the ones I've had, I would choose the MM over the FM no matter the steel for the FM. The MM just has a more advanced grind. It has a nice thicker convex at the heel that progressively gets thinner to the tip. But the thing is the grinds may not be the same as these are handmade.

As for which knife I prefer, you have to understand that my preferences may be a bit different than others here. I'm not great at sharpening, so when I get a good edge on a knife I want it to last (so I value edge retention and ease of sharpening). While I appreciate a super thin behind the edge knife, I like a knife that is a bit thicker so that I can beat on it without worrying what I'm cutting. If I've got a knife in my hand, it should be able to cut through generally everything I'm prepping. I'm not one to switch knives unless I need to do something heavy (and then I pull out the ZKramer Carbon 250).

If the FM was in White, I would take a HD2 over it due to edge retention. I've never touched one, but based on my limited experience with Blue which seems to have good edge retention, in Blue I'd take the FM over the HD2 due to better grind.

I'd take the YS or MM over either.

Based on my feelings today, if I had to choose a single knife I'd take the MM over the YS. The YS is one of the best cutters I've tried, but given how I feel today (with all the other stresses in the world) it feels like I need to baby it just a touch. The MM is close in cutting, but it just feels tougher and I value that alot. I took my MM through a cooked chicken rib cage and I'd never do that with the YS. That whole difference may come down to the fact the YS is 65HRC and the MM is 62HRC. If I were doing a two gyuto combo, I'd take both in a heartbeat.


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## Knivperson (Jan 14, 2021)

esoo said:


> Since I've only had one of each MM and FM, if the grinds were the same as the ones I've had, I would choose the MM over the FM no matter the steel for the FM. The MM just has a more advanced grind. It has a nice thicker convex at the heel that progressively gets thinner to the tip. But the thing is the grinds may not be the same as these are handmade.
> 
> As for which knife I prefer, you have to understand that my preferences may be a bit different than others here. I'm not great at sharpening, so when I get a good edge on a knife I want it to last (so I value edge retention and ease of sharpening). While I appreciate a super thin behind the edge knife, I like a knife that is a bit thicker so that I can beat on it without worrying what I'm cutting. If I've got a knife in my hand, it should be able to cut through generally everything I'm prepping. I'm not one to switch knives unless I need to do something heavy (and then I pull out the ZKramer Carbon 250).
> 
> ...


Thanks. Makes sense. It seems the YS-M is for me.


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## esoo (Jan 26, 2021)

And in the end, there can only be one - the MM is the only one I have left





Given that I rated the YS-M higher, this might be surprising. The YS-M is a better cutter, but the MM I find to be a more versatile knife. I did more with the MM (like carve a chicken) than I would ever do with YS-M by virtue of the MM having just a fraction more thickness behind the edge. The MM just feels tougher, and when trying to cut down to one 210 - my core knife - that made the decision for me.

Doing the holiday preparations, I realized that I needed/wanted something longer than the 200mm that the MM offered, so after a few other knives, I found and got myself a MM Blue2 240. This is going to be core kit for the next little while. Happy with this as a solid solution.


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