# Minimalist knife setup



## Espresso (Aug 17, 2017)

Hey guys!! 

I've been posting here and there for a couple weeks now, and I'm soaking in a ton of info! In an attempt to not get too crazy with buying knives, knife accessories, stones, boards etc etc etc. I want to know what your most barebones setup looks like to do anything you'd need to in a kitchen, from dicing onions all the way to breaking down poultry. 

This could include anything from knives, to kitchen shears, to cutting boards and stones.

I've a small kitchen, so I don't have tons of space or storage to keep excess things, what does your ideal minimalist kitchen setup look like??


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## karif (Aug 18, 2017)

I'd invest most of my space in a good board and robocoup. Than 1/6000 grit stones, a ceramic rod, and a piece of felt or leather would be nice. For knives I'd say as big a gyuto as your comfortable with, and something like a 4-8" petty, yanagi, honesuki, etc.

Edit a food processor.


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## Espresso (Aug 18, 2017)

karif said:


> I'd invest most of my space in a good board and robocoup. Than 1/6000 grit stones, a ceramic rod, and a piece of felt or leather would be nice. For knives I'd say as big a gyuto as your comfortable with, and something like a 6-8" petty, yanagi, honesuki, etc.



What is a robocoup??


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 18, 2017)

Espresso said:


> What is a robocoup??



A commercial brand of food processor.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 18, 2017)

Karif, Wow. 

My suggestion would be to call Jon at Japanese Knife Imports. If you're a home cook, consider pick up a 210mm gyuto (consider a San Mai that's stainless steel clad with a carbon core) a double sided synthetic soaking stone and a wood cutting board. Then watch Jon's sharpening playlist. You'll make a mess of your knife at first, don't worry about that too much. You can always send it back to Jon for a spa. 

Welcome and good luck.




karif said:


> I'd invest most of my space in a good board and robocoup. Than 1/6000 grit stones, a ceramic rod, and a piece of felt or leather would be nice. For knives I'd say as big a gyuto as your comfortable with, and something like a 4-8" petty, yanagi, honesuki, etc.
> 
> Edit a food processor.


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## Duckfat (Aug 18, 2017)

As far as knives go to start I'd find a single 1k/5K or combination stone you like. A gyuto, petty and a Chinese Cleaver. I could pretty much do anything I need from that base. Lots of good vendors out there. Look at JCK as well. Part of the experience for many is ordering from different vendors, buying and trying different brands and getting a knife directly from Japan. Don't over look a Maple cutting board. 
No matter what you buy welcome and enjoy the ride!

Dave


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## Ruso (Aug 18, 2017)

If you look at really minimalist setup, 210-240 good quality gyuto. Walmart type paring knife and a cuting board. King combo stone if you want to sharpen it all.

But it never stops there....


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## Espresso (Aug 18, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Karif, Wow.
> 
> My suggestion would be to call Jon at Japanese Knife Imports. If you're a home cook, consider pick up a 210mm gyuto (consider a San Mai that's stainless steel clad with a carbon core) a double sided synthetic soaking stone and a wood cutting board. Then watch Jon's sharpening playlist. You'll make a mess of your knife at first, don't worry about that too much. You can always send it back to Jon for a spa.
> 
> Welcome and good luck.



Thanks for the input! I've already got myself a KING KDS 1k/6k stone and a knife that I've been practicing on! I've been watching and rewatching that playlist too.


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## Espresso (Aug 18, 2017)

Duckfat said:


> As far as knives go to start I'd find a single 1k/5K or combination stone you like. A gyuto, petty and a Chinese Cleaver. I could pretty much do anything I need from that base. Lots of good vendors out there. Look at JCK as well. Part of the experience for many is ordering from different vendors, buying and trying different brands and getting a knife directly from Japan. Don't over look a Maple cutting board.
> No matter what you buy welcome and enjoy the ride!
> 
> Dave



Hmm a chinese cleaver was one that I didn't really consider! Thanks so much!


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## K813zra (Aug 18, 2017)

I like simple. My setup for daily use is a 120mm petty 180mm gyuto and 270mm bread knife. Those are just my preferred sizes and really don't mean much. I have a second set and rotate out. 120 petty, 165 nakiri, 210 petty and 270 bread. Regardless I still like the petty/gyuto/bread knife set for basic.

Of course I also have shears and other kitchen tools but we could talk about that for weeks.

Boards and stones are so personal. I still use a cheap amazon end grain and it serves me well and was under $50 but it was rough around the edges when I got it. With stones, I don't like combos and they seem like false economy. A good fast 2k is what I could have if I could on have one. Shapton or Gesshin.

Sorry for any typos, I'm using my phone.


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## Espresso (Aug 18, 2017)

K813zra said:


> I like simple. My setup for daily use is a 120mm petty 180mm gyuto and 270mm bread knife. Those are just my preferred sizes and really don't mean much. I have a second set and rotate out. 120 petty, 165 nakiri, 210 petty and 270 bread. Regardless I still like the petty/gyuto/bread knife set for basic.
> 
> Of course I also have shears and other kitchen tools but we could talk about that for weeks.
> 
> ...



This is awesome!! What exactly do you use the bread knife for, besides bread obviously?


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## K813zra (Aug 18, 2017)

Espresso said:


> This is awesome!! What exactly do you use the bread knife for, besides bread obviously?



Cooked protein primarily. I have found that I more or less don't have a use for a suji in my kitchen as my gyuto works just fine. Honestly I use the gyuto an easy 95% of the time and 4% of that is just me playing with other knives.


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## Colorado_cutter (Aug 18, 2017)

For me, a large carbon Chinese cleaver (Ashi), a smaller stainless Chinese cleaver (cheapo), and a stainless wa petty (Tanaka) are what my wife and I use for 95+% of tasks. Also have a cheap Victorinox paring, a bread knife, a santoku, and a heavier cleaver, but those get a lot less use. Three stones, strop on balsa, small edge-grain board, and larger end-grain board. Have a ceramic rod, but don't use it much at all. Plastic bin to perma-soak the stones, sharpie, drywall screen for flattening on a piece of plexiglass, wine corks for deburring.


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## Farberware (Aug 18, 2017)

Pick the size that you feel comfortable with these 3 knives: Petty, Gyuto and a Sujihiki.
I would buy 3 whestones, Shaptop pro 1K, 5K and glue them together to make 1 stone, Kitayama 8K.


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## jferreir (Aug 18, 2017)

Espresso said:


> I've a small kitchen, so I don't have tons of space or storage to keep excess things, what does your ideal minimalist kitchen setup look like??



Ikea knife block -- great space saver with a small footprint, vertical design, and inexpensive price.
Countertop utensil holder -- free up drawer space! You can use practically anything.

As a general rule, I try to avoid single-use gadgets, and anything that does what I can do with a knife. This alone will eliminate 75% of kitchen clutter. 

I prefer two 8-9" chef knives (1 nice, 1 beater), 3.5" Victorinox paring knife, 6" utility/boning knife, and a bread knife. A combo stone and a leather strop to maintain the edge (no honing rod). I would only get shears if you do a lot of spatchcocking, otherwise the beater chef knife will do just fine. None of this needs to be particularly expensive, either. 

Everyone should invest in a decent wood cutting board, but if space is tight, then two poly boards will take up less space and are also dishwasher safe. You can also install hanging bars to help clear up cupboard space for pots and pans and such. 

But spend some time thinking about your layout and how you move in the kitchen. I find it's more important to understand where you cut, mix, grab, etc., when you're trying to utilize a small space efficiently. If you mix near the corner of the counter, for example, you'll know it's more important to keep that space free of obstructions than to fill it with, say, a mini-chopper.


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## Espresso (Aug 18, 2017)

jferreir said:


> Ikea knife block -- great space saver with a small footprint, vertical design, and inexpensive price.
> Countertop utensil holder -- free up drawer space! You can use practically anything.
> 
> As a general rule, I try to avoid single-use gadgets, and anything that does what I can do with a knife. This alone will eliminate 75% of kitchen clutter.
> ...



Well, the good news is that I am just moving in from essentially a clean slate. I'm buying brand new kitchen everything, so I have zero clutter already!! The thing I am torn on mostly will be the board. I'm stuck between a nice, large maple end grain board or an equally large sani-tuff board. Will probably go with the maple end grain board because I would much rather look at that all day than a beige sani-tuff board.


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## larrybard (Aug 18, 2017)

As with most things: Buy Quality, and take good care of everything, and they will last a lifetime. (Well, almost . . . though you're not in a pro kitchen, so chances are you'll want to buy and try additional knives years before you might ever wear them out from repeated sharpenings.)

Invest in a maple end grain board that will make you happy. (And make sure it's large enough.)

And start with a decent gyuto, but spend some time figuring out first what size, and handle. No need to rush to buy additional knives (and certainly not a cleaver), though if you really don't have any knife suitable for cutting bread, that might be worth considering sooner rather than later, and you needn't spend much for passable performance.


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## K813zra (Aug 18, 2017)

I agree with the idea of doing your due diligence but sometimes research just does not cut it and you get something you simply do not like or does not fit your hand. I have had that issue with handles more than a few times.  Size may or may not resonate with a person as well. I started with a 240, moved to a santoku, moved back to a 210 and settled on a 180 (which is 191mm).

My point is that if possible it would be nice to feel the knife in hand before you use it to at least get an idea of how it feels. That is not an option for me as all of the known knife vendors are in different states. If the op lives close, I suggest taking a road trip!

I suppose one could buy something, use it and get used to it and forget that something more comfortable might exist but that does not fit with the way I think.


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## scott.livesey (Aug 18, 2017)

my choice would be small cleaver(2 1/2" x 7 or 8" x 1/8"spine), double bevel 4 to 5" thin(1/16 or 3/32" spine) ajikiri and 12" thrift store bread knife. 1/2" by 12" square piece of HDPE, a pair of bandage scissors(the kind you see on TV that can cut a penny), basic 8" coarse/fine stone, black and decker makes a mini similar to the robot coupe chopper. go to local restaurant supply store and get stainless serving spoon, slotted spoon, 1" wide spatula, 3" wide turner. last but not least, gotta have a 12" cast iron skillet.


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## HRC_64 (Aug 18, 2017)

How big is your sink? This will determine your cutting board sizes, prep-thruput constraints, and indirectly influence knife size. A small sink means small cutting boards, and lots of dirty dishes or pans on countertops, which makes for cramped quarters and obstacle course. Moreso than anything else, this would lead me to say smaller knives like 180s (and maybe even, gasp, santokus) which are easier to put-down in a mine-field. If you have a small kitchen with a huge sink or multiple sinks/prep sinks etc...then your classic 210-240 sizes will start to shine closer to full potential. Keep maybe the 10-12 inch for problem cases around but tucked into the drawer (buy cheap from a resturant store or vintage etc).


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## fatboylim (Aug 18, 2017)

If you mean lowest number of items and lowest cost per item, without being $2 shop rubbish. 

1. Gyuto 210mm - 240mm Tanaka blue 2 perhaps
2. Petty 135mm - 150mm Kugamoro stainless white 2.
3. Cheap King deluxe 1200 stone. 
4. Cheap 220 stone of any sort for lapping and repairing. 
5. Optionally a CCK cleaver but this would cost around $60 extra. 

Should cost under $200 total. 

Warning: this is very basic and not much fun.


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## JaVa (Aug 18, 2017)

The biggest and most expensive gyuto you feel comfortable with (210-240, SS, SS clad carbon or semi SS). A cheap, but quality 135 (SS) petty. Cheap breadknife. a decent 1000/5000 or 1000/6000 combo stone. That's the bare bones IMO.


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## milkbaby (Aug 18, 2017)

To be honest, the minimalist set up for my home kitchen are these which I reach for 99.9% of the time:
190 mm gyuto
veggie peeler
end grain cutting board
plastic cutting board (for raw meat)
color cardstock advert on kitchen counter to strop

Much less used but I guess somewhat necessary:
1k/6k King stone

Sometimes I use a 130 mm tall petty / mini gyuto or a 160 mm bunka instead of the gyuto and a smaller edge grain cutting board because it's less cleaning. I don't do much chicken, but I will use some kitchen shears to cut a bird when I do.

More stuff is just for fun and to feed the collector gene.


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## scott.livesey (Aug 18, 2017)

Espresso said:


> This is awesome!! What exactly do you use the bread knife for, besides bread obviously?



I found a nice 13" Gerber at a yard sale for $1. bread, cooked protein, watermelon, cantalope. is serrated, so frozen food in an emergency


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## Benuser (Aug 18, 2017)

A carbon 240mm gyuto (Masahiro, Misono), a stainless 150 petty and a carbon peeler (Robert Herder). For the stones, Naniwa Pro 400 + Belgian Blue.


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## fujiyama (Aug 18, 2017)

270mm bread knife
180mm santoku
80mm parer

Chosera 400
Chosera 1000

Walmart end grain cutting board
Poly cutting board

If you prep large proteins or fillet fish you may want a sujihiki.


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## K813zra (Aug 18, 2017)

I don't understand the concept, often mentioned and talked about in this thread, of needing a cutting board to fit in your sink. My grandparents have a butcher block, you know, one on legs that wouldn't fit in a tub. My grandfather was a butcher, who used a butcher block counter top and you are obviously not going to fit that in a tub. Take the damn cleaning supplies to the board. Be that simple salt and or vinegar or soap and water, don't be lazy. 

/rant

The point is, I had smaller boards for years and a bigger board, for me, is much more comfortable. As such I think, and that is just my personal opinion, that a bigger boards is better.


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## HRC_64 (Aug 18, 2017)

K813zra said:


> I don't understand the concept, often mentioned and talked about in this thread, of needing a cutting board to fit in your sink.



this is a function of a couple of things, but in general "small kitchen" equates to expensive, urban real estate (SF, London, NYC, Tokyo), where real estate may be $2k-5k per square foot.

grandma's country farm house with 3x4ft butcher block (12 square feet=you do the math) doesn't really count as a "small kitchen" in the above sense. 

the second is some combination of sanitation and flavour mixing...raw meat gets done on plastic and washed with anti-bacterial was and hot water...much easier over the sink

lastly, if you wash your wood with salt and/or acidic liquids like vinegar after you use it for things like Onions... you still need to RINSE it which is much easier over the sink...

of course you can use a bucket, but that 12-18 inch inch (bucket is 1-2 sq ft) is taking up a couple thousand dollars of real estate in some of these crazy "small kitchen" situations....which gets us to why sinks in these places are so damned small...

now, understood, for people that live in normal real-estate market this all probably (and rightfully) sounds like advice from the twilight zone


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## K813zra (Aug 19, 2017)

HRC_64 said:


> this is a function of a couple of things, but in general "small kitchen" equates to expensive, urban real estate (SF, London, NYC, Tokyo), where real estate may be $2k-5k per square foot.
> 
> grandma's country farm house with 3x4ft butcher block (12 square feet=you do the math) doesn't really count as a "small kitchen" in the above sense.
> 
> ...



I have a flat in Spain (2 actually), one in Madrid, so I understand small expensive real estate. My kitchen there, in either place, is smaller than my closet here but I could still fit a fair size board on the counter and in the sink. Or at least over the sink. Is it a 26 inch farm sink, no, but it would easily fit a nice 12x18. I can not see using one of those tiny 9x9 boards or something like that!


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## aaamax (Aug 19, 2017)

JaVa said:


> The biggest and most expensive gyuto you feel comfortable with...



This is a point we don't see that often and one that I agree with. Buy as large a knife as you can comfortably use, or better yet, a little longer than currently comfortable. The extra length WILL be loved later on and you will be glad you pushed yourself.


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## F-Flash (Aug 19, 2017)

Tanaka ginsan migaki with king hyper 1k add veggie peeler and cutting board and youre good to go.


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## Nemo (Aug 19, 2017)

I do 95% of my prep wit whichever 240 or 270mm gyuto I feel like using that day. The remainder is shared between a veggie peeler and a petty. All my petties are stainless currently because most of the stuff they cut is acidic.

I have a large endgrain Jarrah board which gets cleaned either with water, vinegar or benzalkonium chloride (restaurant sanitiser) depending on what got cut on it. I never put meat on the end grain board. I use a seperate (rubber) board as a meat board.

If budget is limited, I'd invest everything in the gyuto and then the board. A Victorinox or similar parer for $10-15 will get you by but in budget gyutos, a few extea $$ can make significant performance gains for the knife that you are using most of the time.

You'll also need something to keep it sharp- maybe a combo stone with 1k and 3-8k sides. And a strop (a few dollars worth of stuff from the hardware store and some CrOx compoud or diamond paste). And a flattening option (?drywall screen if on a budget).

And somewhere to store it. Custom cardboard or copy paper saya (held together with masking tape) is a cheap option.


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## K813zra (Aug 19, 2017)

aaamax said:


> This is a point we don't see that often and one that I agree with. Buy as large a knife as you can comfortably use, or better yet, a little longer than currently comfortable. The extra length WILL be loved later on and you will be glad you pushed yourself.



I find it hard to agree with that as I did not have that experience. I tried to get accustomed to a 240 for over a year and it just was not for me. I switched to smaller knives and have never been happier. Maybe I am the exception rather than the rule, though.


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## aaamax (Aug 19, 2017)

K813zra said:


> I find it hard to agree with that as I did not have that experience. I tried to get accustomed to a 240 for over a year and it just was not for me. I switched to smaller knives and have never been happier. Maybe I am the exception rather than the rule, though.




Interesting. Did you stay with the same type of knife, but just down size?
I know a wicked Korean chef and she never uses anything other than a glorified parer, seriously. So of course, there are no rules or right or wrongs. In my experience, people that pushed the size barrier ended up being happy that they had the extra real estate to work with.


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## Espresso (Aug 19, 2017)

This is what I currently have:

Tanaka Ginsan Nashiji 210mm
Yoshihiro VG-10 46 layer damascus petty (Can you tell this was the first one I bought  )
King 1000/6000

What I am planning on buying:
Michigan Maple Block 20x15x3 End grain maple
Shapton Professional Splash and go 1000 (Because I hate soaking)
Veggie Peeler


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## K813zra (Aug 19, 2017)

aaamax said:


> Interesting. Did you stay with the same type of knife, but just down size?
> I know a wicked Korean chef and she never uses anything other than a glorified parer, seriously. So of course, there are no rules or right or wrongs. In my experience, people that pushed the size barrier ended up being happy that they had the extra real estate to work with.



Same thing but smaller. I like a 180 gyuto. Actually I like a 195-200mm gyuto in particular and around 38-41mm at the heel. I do have a nakiri and santoku but I seem to only use them on mushrooms and onions. Great knives for making steak sandwiches.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 19, 2017)

If I was forced to have the most basic essentials:

Edge grain cutting board
Cleaver or gyuto
1000 or 2000 grit stone
Blender

The next step above this:

Edge grain cutting board
Cleaver
small knife 180mm or less
1000 grit stone
400 grit stone
Blender

Anything else is icing on the cake. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy a 240 gyuto above all others. Yet I make mostly vegetarian meals so I would choose a cleaver that I also enjoy using for practicle reasons.


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## WildBoar (Aug 19, 2017)

Cutting boards can be cleaned on the counter -- they do not need to go in the sink. And if you want it to, and you have a sprayer on the faucet, then the sink width only limits the width of the cutting board. If you can leave the cutting board out on the counter it opens up the ability to go with a bot of board room, which allows the use of longer knives.

Knife-wise for me it would a 225-240 gyuto, a 180 thin petty and a paring knife. And a backup for the guyto, and 8 or 9 more back-ups. You know, just on case... :biggrin:

If you need to slice large rustic bread loaves, consider adding a 300 or 325 bread knife to themix. And if you make big roasts, you can add a 270-300 suji.

Stones -- the 1k/5k combo as discussed several times above is great, plus having felt of leather to strop on is helpful.

On the knives, consider going stainless for the gyuto, as there will be times when you have to lay the knife down and run off before it can be cleaned off/ dried. Or more probable,a spouse/ SO, visitor, etc. will use it and lay it down wet, with food left on it, etc., and you may not discover it until a bit later.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 19, 2017)

WildBoar said:


> Cutting boards can be cleaned on the counter -- they do not need to go in the sink. And if you want it to, and you have a sprayer on the faucet, then the sink width only limits the width of the cutting board. If you can leave the cutting board out on the counter it opens up the ability to go with a bot of board room, which allows the use of longer knives.
> 
> Knife-wise for me it would a 225-240 gyuto, a 180 thin petty and a paring knife. And a backup for the guyto, and 8 or 9 more back-ups. You know, just on case... [emoji3]
> 
> ...


Couldnt you just have an extra towel for a quick wipe with a carbon blade?

Also I can understand having a bread knife when it's your job to slice bread all day, but for a home kitchen I don't think it deserves to be part of a "minimal" setup


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## K813zra (Aug 19, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Couldnt you just have an extra towel for a quick wipe with a carbon blade?
> 
> Also I can understand having a bread knife when it's your job to slice bread all day, but for a home kitchen I don't think it deserves to be part of a "minimal" setup



I like a bread knife better than a suji for taking down cooked and crusty protein such as roasted beef. Also, my wife is from Europe (Spain) which means I slice up crusty, fresh baked bred, every morning. 

Isn't the bread knife, a chefs knife and a paring knife the standard rec that has been around like longer than I have been alive?


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## Espresso (Aug 19, 2017)

K813zra said:


> I like a bread knife better than a suji for taking down cooked and crusty protein such as roasted beef. Also, my wife is from Europe (Spain) which means I slice up crusty, fresh baked bred, every morning.
> 
> Isn't the bread knife, a chefs knife and a paring knife the standard rec that has been around like longer than I have been alive?



I mean, I can't recall ever reaching for a bread knife in the kitchen so it probably isn't for me. I don't bake much bread, really! I would go for a suji over a bread knife, personally.


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## K813zra (Aug 19, 2017)

Espresso said:


> I mean, I can't recall ever reaching for a bread knife in the kitchen so it probably isn't for me. I don't bake much bread, really! I would go for a suji over a bread knife, personally.



Neither did I until I bought one. My thing with a suji is that I just don't eat much meat large enough to require using one. My 180 gyuto takes care of duck, chicken and pork. Go with what suites your needs. 

I almost never use a suji so guess how often I use my Yanagiba.:rofl2: (Once, only once.)


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## Espresso (Aug 19, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Neither did I until I bought one. My thing with a suji is that I just don't eat much meat large enough to require using one. My 180 gyuto takes care of duck, chicken and pork. Go with what suites your needs.
> 
> I almost never use a suji so guess how often I use my Yanagiba.:rofl2: (Once, only once.)



So basically, learn how to cook more types of food so I will just HAVE to buy more knives... Right?


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## Chef Doom (Aug 19, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Isn't the bread knife, a chefs knife and a paring knife the standard rec that has been around like longer than I have been alive?



Just because something has been recommended forever does not make it valid, useful, or worthwhile advice.


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## K813zra (Aug 19, 2017)

Espresso said:


> So basically, learn how to cook more types of food so I will just HAVE to buy more knives... Right?



Well, I suppose. I have a few kinds, gyuto, santoku, petty, suji, deba, yanagiba, honesuki, mukimono and nakiri but I almost always use the gyuto regardless of what I am portioning.:lol2: Just feels natural.


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## K813zra (Aug 19, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Just because something has been recommended forever does not make it valid, useful, or worthwhile advice.



Doesn't make it not so either.  It is useful, for me, that is. Maybe not for others but I can only speak from my own experience.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 19, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Neither did I until I bought one. My thing with a suji is that I just don't eat much meat large enough to require using one. My 180 gyuto takes care of duck, chicken and pork. Go with what suites your needs.
> 
> I almost never use a suji so guess how often I use my Yanagiba.:rofl2: (Once, only once.)


I will agree that there is nothing wrong with repurposing a knife from its intended use. I lost any need for my shorter semi stainless suji after I stopped eating most meat products until I realized it was the perfect fruit knife.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 19, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Doesn't make it not so either.  It is useful, for me, that is. Maybe not for others but I can only speak from my own experience.


Yet if you could only have one knife a cleaver would be all you would need. In this situation: "a meal that can't be prepared with a cleaver would not be a meal worth having" hahahahahaha


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## K813zra (Aug 19, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Yet if you could only have one knife a cleaver would be all you would need. In this situation: "a meal that can't be prepared with a cleaver would not be a meal worth having" hahahahahaha



I've not used one. The closest it gets for me is a nakiri and I could take it or leave it.


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## Espresso (Aug 19, 2017)

K813zra said:


> I've not used one. The closest it gets for me is a nakiri and I could take it or leave it.



I'm confused by the nakiri. What can you do with it that you can't do with the gyuto?


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## K813zra (Aug 20, 2017)

Espresso said:


> I'm confused by the nakiri. What can you do with it that you can't do with the gyuto?



Me, personally? Not a thing. I can do much more with a gyuto than a nakiri. In general, I haven't got a clue. Where it is good is when you like short blades but still want height. A santoku would be another option, though.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 20, 2017)

K813zra said:


> I've not used one. The closest it gets for me is a nakiri and I could take it or leave it.


After using a nikiri and then using a cleaver the techqnique and feel is night and days apart. My nikiri sits in the closet unused and ready to be gifted because I would rather use a gyuto but the cleaver gets grabed anytime I need to chop more than a small bowl of vegetables.


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## panda (Aug 20, 2017)

nakiri i consider to be one of the most useless styles lol


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## Chef Doom (Aug 20, 2017)

Espresso said:


> I'm confused by the nakiri. What can you do with it that you can't do with the gyuto?


It is primarily a vegetable knife and from what I herd tends to be popular with home cooks in Japan due to space constraints and double bevels being easy to maintain. The only reason I would recommend one is if you have a strong desire to try something different from the common shapes.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 20, 2017)

panda said:


> nakiri i consider to be one of the most useless styles lol


I mostly agree with you. It is somewhat like a boning knife. It is great until 6 months go by and you realise you have not deboned a single chicken.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 20, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Me, personally? Not a thing. I can do much more with a gyuto than a nakiri. In general, I haven't got a clue. Where it is good is when you like short blades but still want height. A santoku would be another option, though.


This is true.I bought one for variaty but the experience was nice in general.


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## panda (Aug 20, 2017)

or the last one you deboned was with the petty you already had out


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## Chef Doom (Aug 20, 2017)

panda said:


> or the last one you deboned was with the petty you already had out


hahahaha so true, so true


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## aaamax (Aug 20, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> I mostly agree with you. It is somewhat like a boning knife. It is great until 6 months go by and you realise you have not deboned a single chicken.



It's funny about the Nakiri, I bloody love the profile and the feel in the hand (tall ones), but are also useless to me, lol. Being a cleaver user, I would NEVER grab the Nakiri. So my mom got a damn fine Nakiri as a gift and is happy as a clam.
As for boning knives, the only time I take one in my roll is when I know I am going to stuff fillets, that's it. I dig the design of the Hankotsu and again, feels great in the hand, but doesn't get used much. Too long for a parer and not as thin as my favourite pettys.
SO, as the thread is named "minimalist" I can attest to being totally satisfied with just a Chuka and a simple parer.


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## daveb (Aug 20, 2017)

Espresso said:


> So basically, learn how to cook more types of food so I will just HAVE to buy more knives... Right?



Yes.


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## Duckfat (Aug 20, 2017)

Espresso said:


> I'm confused by the nakiri. What can you do with it that you can't do with the gyuto?



Absorb wasted space or allow you to check the "yes I had one of those" box. 
Foe me there's zero common ground between a cleaver and a Nakiri. If I had to I could work all day with a cleaver and be happy doing it.
As to the previous conversation about knife length I can see both sides of that one. When I was working I rarely grabbed anything under 270. At home 240 is more than enough for me. I don't subscribe to the bigger is always better concept though. Buy the right tool for the job or at least the one you think is right for you. 
When looking at a minimalist kit...keep it minimal and don't get sucked down the Rabbit hole too fast. 


Dave


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## K813zra (Aug 20, 2017)

It is interesting to see that a cleaver and a nakiri are so different. I think I might not like a cleaver, regardless, they look huge. 

Moving on, if you want to go minimalist I got by with a 165mm petty and a peeler for ten years.  Basic is just that, minimal and while utility will get the job done it is not always the most enjoyable way to get there.


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## scott.livesey (Aug 20, 2017)

K813zra said:


> It is interesting to see that a cleaver and a nakiri are so different. I think I might not like a cleaver, regardless, they look huge. Moving on, if you want to go minimalist I got by with a 165mm petty and a peeler for ten years.  Basic is just that, minimal and while utility will get the job done it is not always the most enjoyable way to get there.



cleaver covers a broad range of tools. my WW2 vintage Foster Brothers has a 3 1/2 x 9 x 3/8 inch blade and weighs about 3 pounds. have favorite is 2 1/2 x 7 x 1/8 inch, weighs about 9 oz., and can slice soft veg easily and still behead a 3 pound catfish without damage. is all in what you get used to using.


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## WildBoar (Aug 20, 2017)

I indicated the bread knife was not the very basic, but could be a useful add to someone that regularly has large loaves of bread. a 240 gyuto is too short IMO for large loaves (my wife bakes them regularly, so I know how the 300 bread knife is more useful). A suitable length suji could also be used.

None of these things are "necessary". For a true minimalist knife set one could go solely with a 160-180 petty and pretty much do anything ever needed. just not as fast/ efficiently as one could with more to pick from.


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## K813zra (Aug 20, 2017)

scott.livesey said:


> cleaver covers a broad range of tools. my WW2 vintage Foster Brothers has a 3 1/2 x 9 x 3/8 inch blade and weighs about 3 pounds. have favorite is 2 1/2 x 7 x 1/8 inch, weighs about 9 oz., and can slice soft veg easily and still behead a 3 pound catfish without damage. is all in what you get used to using.



In this case I believe most were talking about the Chinese cleaver. I have an old meat cleaver that I use to break chicken/rabbit legs into quarters for paella. Honestly, I could just use my husk hatchet or a ban saw (which is what they do at the markets in Spain).


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## malexthekid (Aug 20, 2017)

WildBoar said:


> I indicated the bread knife was not the very basic, but could be a useful add to someone that regularly has large loaves of bread. a 240 gyuto is too short IMO for large loaves (my wife bakes them regularly, so I know how the 300 bread knife is more useful). A suitable length suji could also be used.
> 
> None of these things are "necessary". For a true minimalist knife set one could go solely with a 160-180 petty and pretty much do anything ever needed. just not as fast/ efficiently as one could with more to pick from.


Exactly what he said!!!

If we are talking efficient minimalist for home use then I would say a gyuto (length per your own preference, for me it would be my 275 thin workhorse tansu) and a petty (personally I reckon a Martell 160mm petty is perfect).

But I counter with where is the fun in minimalism? You can't go from honyaki-less to multiple honyakis in a week with minimalism [emoji1]


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## K813zra (Aug 20, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Exactly what he said!!!
> 
> If we are talking efficient minimalist for home use then I would say a gyuto (length per your own preference, for me it would be my 275 thin workhorse tansu) and a petty (personally I reckon a Martell 160mm petty is perfect).
> 
> But I counter with where is the fun in minimalism? You can't go from honyaki-less to multiple honyakis in a week with minimalism [emoji1]



I can't go that route at all unless I get a second job, lol. Or I quit buying natural stones but that is not going to happen. I like the stones more than the knives. Regardless, I too like the fun route even if I understand the utility route.


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## aaamax (Aug 21, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Yet if you could only have one knife a cleaver would be all you would need. In this situation: "a meal that can't be prepared with a cleaver would not be a meal worth having" hahahahahaha



Ah MAN! I think I have just found my new tagline/signature! Love it.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 21, 2017)

aaamax said:


> Ah MAN! I think I have just found my new tagline/signature! Love it.


I try to inspire at least one person per year.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 21, 2017)

WildBoar said:


> I indicated the bread knife was not the very basic, but could be a useful add to someone that regularly has large loaves of bread.
> 
> None of these things are "necessary". For a true minimalist knife set one could go solely with a 160-180 petty and pretty much do anything ever needed. just not as fast/ efficiently as one could with more to pick from.



That's what I'm talking. A no nonsense setup that you can limp through most situations with. 

I wish I could run an experiment where we get Hell's Kitchen to force their entire staff to use only one knife for an entire week. 

Week 1 = 180 petty
Week 2 = 240 or 270 gyuto
Week 3 = Chinese cleavers
Week 4 = Kitchen shears
Week 5 = Hack saw
Week 6 = your bare hands and the tops of food cans.

At the end we will let the patrons decide what week and nights had the best meals by taste and presentation.


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## Espresso (Aug 21, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> That's what I'm talking. A no nonsense setup that you can limp through most situations with.
> 
> I wish I could run an experiment where we get Hell's Kitchen to force their entire staff to use only one knife for an entire week.
> 
> ...



Gordon's gotta prove that he can do it first. Mainly the tops of food cans bit.


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## malexthekid (Aug 21, 2017)

I would go food cans over hack saw any day of the week


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## Nemo (Aug 21, 2017)

How's the heat treat on those food cans?


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## scott.livesey (Aug 21, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> That's what I'm talking. A no nonsense setup that you can limp through most situations with.
> 
> I wish I could run an experiment where we get Hell's Kitchen to force their entire staff to use only one knife for an entire week.
> 
> ...


have you been watching too much Cutthroat Kitchen? I have seen contestants have to use shears, saw, top of food can, a snow ski, or ice skate as only knife


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## Chef Doom (Aug 22, 2017)

Nemo said:


> How's the heat treat on those food cans?


Lol.... I think the mass production and recycling of materials has caused the quality control to dip.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 22, 2017)

scott.livesey said:


> have you been watching too much Cutthroat Kitchen? I have seen contestants have to use shears, saw, top of food can, a snow ski, or ice skate as only knife


Never heard of it but that sounds awesome. Thanks for the rec.


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## Espresso (Aug 22, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> I would go food cans over hack saw any day of the week



Wait, so do I open the cans with my knives or what?? No one mentioned a can opener.


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## K813zra (Aug 22, 2017)

Espresso said:


> Wait, so do I open the cans with my knives or what?? No one mentioned a can opener.



Go out to the side walk and wet it down. Turn the can upside down and rub it on the sidewalk. The lid will eventually come off. This may take some time and you may get mud in your food but it does work, I tried it. I saw this on the internet and was like no way that will work but it did. The problem is, your lid will be smooth if you do it this way. :rofl2:


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## Chef Doom (Aug 22, 2017)

Espresso said:


> Wait, so do I open the cans with my knives or what?? No one mentioned a can opener.


Open a can with a standard can opener that cuts into the top of the lid. Lids opened the old fashion way are sharper than you may think. I have heard of some horror stories of people dumb enough to fling them like frisbees.


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## Espresso (Aug 22, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Open a can with a standard can opener that cuts into the top of the lid. Lids opened the old fashion way are sharper than you may think. I have heard of some horror stories of people dumb enough to fling them like frisbees.



The scars on my hands are a testament to this.


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## Chef_ (Aug 23, 2017)

Seeing as how most of us here have at least 10+ gyutos, I wouldnt take advice from any of us on how to be minimalist.


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## BrianT (Aug 23, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Seeing as how most of us here have at least 10+ gyutos, I wouldnt take advice from any of us on how to be minimalist.



Truer words are hard to come by :biggrin:


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## panda (Aug 23, 2017)

lol


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## K813zra (Aug 23, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Seeing as how most of us here have at least 10+ gyutos, I wouldnt take advice from any of us on how to be minimalist.



You know, that is a good point but isn't that minimalist? I mean, it is 10 of the same knife type rather than 40 types of knives. Would not that show that people simply need to start out with a gyuto or similar.


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## Espresso (Aug 23, 2017)

K813zra said:


> You know, that is a good point but isn't that minimalist? I mean, it is 10 of the same knife type rather than 40 types of knives. Would not that show that people simply need to start out with a gyuto or similar.



And this, everybody, is what we call rationalizing. :rofl2:


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## K813zra (Aug 23, 2017)

Espresso said:


> And this, everybody, is what we call rationalizing. :rofl2:



Right? I mean, I did say that tongue in cheek but you can extract some truth from it in that I use mainly one knife at a time in the kitchen and one knife in general over time as well. That would typically be the gyuto. 

Don't ask me to rationalize my natural stones, I can't. Well, I suppose I could say that I have so many because I don't want to wear through them. Will anyone buy that?


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## Chef Doom (Aug 23, 2017)

I think there was a thread once that discussed what knife was your go to knife. It was mostly full of gyutos with some strong cleaver supporters. The outliers ranged between larger pettys, sujis and yanagibas. Oh and a santoku or two as well. Every other profile be it nakiri, deba, or other wise were nice "its great for this..." type of scenarios.

A couple people mentioned using a honyaki most of the time. 


K813zra said:


> Right? I mean, I did say that tongue in cheek but you can extract some truth from it in that I use mainly one knife at a time in the kitchen and one knife in general over time as well. That would typically be the gyuto.
> 
> Don't ask me to rationalize my natural stones, I can't. Well, I suppose I could say that I have so many because I don't want to wear through them. Will anyone buy that?


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