# Passaround Tansu Or Takeda (Australia - Brisbane)



## madelinez

Willing to do a 4 week pass-around of a 255mm Tansu Gyuto or a 180mm Takeda nakiri. Participants must pick up and drop off from my central Brisbane location.


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## Michi

I'd be interested in joining the club! I'm on the south side, fifteen minutes from the CBD.


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## madelinez

Hey Michi, PM me your choice and a time that suits you for pickup (I'm at newstead).


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## Luftmensch

Given the tyranny of distance.... that makes me happy. Two cool members... Enjoy!


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## mise_en_place

Very generous offer! Hope our friends down under can take advantage of this offer.


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## Oui Chef

If its making it into the post I'd love to join this pass around (in South Aus), especially for the Tansu. My first japanese knife was a takeda nakiri, along with a 240 gyuto. Both still going strong, though 7 or so years in a pro kitchen means the gyuto no longer has a kurouchi finish


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## Luftmensch

Oui Chef said:


> If its making it into the post I'd love to join this pass around (in South Aus)



Given the original text... it looks like this might be a Brisvegas-only pass around. See what Madz says. Maybe you can sweeten the deal by paying for postage both ways?


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## madelinez

Sorry this one is Brisbane only, less risk of damage during transit and I feel better meeting the person I'm lending the knife to. I might do an Australia-wide pass-around in the future as I continue to get to know people on the forum.


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## Oui Chef

madelinez said:


> Sorry this one is Brisbane only, less risk of damage during transit and I feel better meeting the person I'm lending the knife to. I might do an Australia-wide pass-around in the future as I continue to get to know people on the forum.


No need for apologies I totally get it


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## Michi

Madelinez and I will be doing swapsies on Monday evening. My cleaver for his gyuto 

Actually, I think it's really nice to make contact with someone local. Makes it easy to drop off a knife one day, and pick it up a week later. Over time, people get to try different knives and learn something about the different feel and styles, without having to buy the thing first and, if it turns out not to be ideal, losing money on selling it again.

I see this mostly as a way to learn and gain experience. And, while you are at it, you can talk shop, exchange recipes, whatever. Nice!


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## Carl Kotte

Michi said:


> Madelinez and I will be doing swapsies on Monday evening. My cleaver for his gyuto
> 
> Actually, I think it's really nice to make contact with someone local. Makes it easy to drop off a knife one day, and pick it up a week later. Over time, people get to try different knives and learn something about the different feel and styles, without having to buy the thing first and, if it turns out not to be ideal, losing money on selling it again.
> 
> I see this mostly as a way to learn and gain experience. And, while you are at it, you can talk shop, exchange recipes, whatever. Nice!



Sweet deal, terrific idea! Wish all participants all the best. [emoji1303]


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## benhendy

Sounds great, but a 255mm knife is way too big for my small hands!! All the best guys


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## Michi

So, I just quickly threw dinner together, using madelinez's Mert Tansu.

Fun!  First impressions: it's really, really sharp. It's solid, feels weighty in my hand, which I like. (I have a preference for somewhat hefty knives.)

The sides of the knife are super-smooth; despite that, there is a lot less stiction than I expected. There is a long flat section that is great for chopping. I rock-chopped the garlic, and the knife rocks really well, despite the long flat part. Also, when coming down back towards the heel while rock chopping, it doesn't stop abruptly with a "clang". I just sort of slows down and stops gently. Very nice!

I'll do more things with this knife later this week. In particular, I want to use it side-by-side with my KS, which has a similar profile.

But my first impression is that this is a superb knife.







Frozen udon from the Japanese supermarket with homemade XO sauce and cherry tomatoes, with a bit of grated cured duck egg yolk. Chicorée on the side.


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## Luftmensch

Michi said:


> using madelinez's Mert Tansu



Thanks for the mini-review! Nice to see the benefits of the pass around be shared more broadly. Looks yummy too!


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## madelinez

Just a note for everyone, the knife did not come from Tansu with that damage along the edge. I lent it to a friend (professional chef) who attempted to sharpen it...

Whatever he used was 2k+ so the damage is mostly cosmetic. Mind you I've never gotten it hair shaving sharp the way it came from Mert. Glad you're enjoying it so far Michi, your cleaver will be helping me prepare a sweet potato stew tonight hopefully.


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## Michi

Let us know what you think of the cleaver. If you think it's too dull, go ahead and touch it up. I suspect that a few swipes on a strop would do it. If not, a 3000-grit stone definitely should. I used it a few times since I last sharpened it, so it's not at its absolute best.

Post a pic of the stew please!


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## Michi

Just did a bit more prep with the Tansu and my Masamoto KS side by side. Not a lot of stuff, just a bit of mirepoix and garlic.

For onion and celery, there was almost no difference. For doing the horizontal cuts, the Tansu came out slightly ahead. The sides are so smooth and polished that the blade glides almost without friction through the onion. But for the vertical cuts, there was effectively no difference; neither was there when I used the section near the heel to do the chopping.

For carrots, the Tansu came out a little bit ahead. When cutting slabs with the KS, there was a bit of a cracking sound whereas, with the Tansu, it happens silently. Looking at the grind, the Tansu looks a little thinner behind the edge to me. So, it took a fraction less force to make the cuts, and the knife seemed to get through to the board with less effort. Part of that I suspect is again the highly polished sides of the Tansu; almost no friction against the produce.

Chopping garlic was as you would expect from looking at the profile. The Tansu has a bit more curvature in the last few centimetres towards the tip, so it rocks a little better than the KS. The KS can be used for rock chopping, but only for small amounts; the tip starts digging into the board if you lift up too high.

Stiction is probably about the same, with the KS being just a little ahead. The polished blade of the Tansu is an ideal surface for things to stick themselves to. The KS was a little better but, in all honesty, I don't think food release is great with either. It's acceptable, but not great.

Here is a profile comparison:




The extra heel height of the Tansu is nice; the KS is just a touch on the low side for my taste. What surprised me is how similar the profiles are; for the first 70% of the blade, it's almost identical. It's only the change in the last 30% or so that makes the Tansu a better knife for rocking.

I haven't had a chance to do any proteins yet, other than a little bit of guanciale with the Tansu (which worked just fine, of course). When it comes to taking off slices of things in a clean long cut, I'd expect the KS to perform a little better, due to the lower height and the straighter profile. But, overall, if you want a universal knife for doing a bit of everything, the Tansu comes out ahead, in my opinion. It's a knife that is both more versatile, and a little easier to use.

At 245 g, the Tansu is not a light knife (which I like). My KS (with custom handle that is heavier than the original) also weighs exactly 245 g. Serendipity…

The surprising thing is that the Tansu feels a bit heavier. I guess the weight distribution is different. For the Tansu, the balance point is in line with the heel; for the KS, the balance point is back from the heel by about a centimetre. Because the KS also has longer machi, that makes the KS more handle-heavy and, in comparison, makes the Tansu more blade-heavy. When switching from one to the other, the Tansu feels more authoritative and solid, and the KS feels more nimble and elegant.


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## Michi

BTW, if anyone has a KS 3124 with the original handle, I'd be interested to know what it weighs. I never weighed mine before I had the handle replaced.


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## Garner Harrison

Man this knife pass/swap seems so fun! 

Kinda wish I had the confidence to participate since Im in Brisbane also but Id be way too nervous handling someone else's knife. Keep posting as this is really interesting and fun to read!


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## Michi

Garner Harrison said:


> Man this knife pass/swap seems so fun!
> 
> Kinda wish I had the confidence to participate since Im in Brisbane also but Id be way too nervous handling someone else's knife. Keep posting as this is really interesting and fun to read!


Not a big deal really. Just treat the knife with some respect and handle it carefully. Knives aren't made out of sugar and don't get damaged just by using them as intended.

Why not form a club? Maybe get together once or twice a year at some nice pub or Japanese joint, bring a few knives, swap stories and knives, and help each other to learn and try something new. Could be fun!


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## Garner Harrison

I would be totally down for that! Getting to know more people that love knives would be great so I can stop harassing my family with knife talk ;P 

Sharing knives and sharpening/polishing tips and tricks would be great! 



Michi said:


> Why don't form a club? Maybe get together once or twice a year at some nice pub or Japanese joint, bring a few knives, swap stories and knives, and help each other to learn and try something new. Could be fun!


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## Michi

OK, I'll host a BBQ at my place some time next year. Any other people in the Brisbane region, put your name down, bring a six-pack and your knives to drool over, and I'll supply the food. Date to be announced once we know who's interested and have worked it out via PM


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## Garner Harrison

Count me in! Although I wont bring any beer I have whiskey


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## Michi

I'll drink your whiskey, not a problem 

@madelinez What's your favourite tipple? 

I'm serious about this (in a sort of easy-going way): if we can get three or four or five people together, we can hang out for an hour or two or three, compare knives, swap recipes, enjoy a bit of food, and maybe learn something from each other.

If we find that the conversation won't flow, that things are awkward, and that it's just not happening, so be it. It won't be the end of the world, and we don't have to do it a second time. But we won't know what might happen unless we try.


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## madelinez

I'm partial to scotch, dark beers or a decent cider. Depends on the weather really 

I had a chance to use the CCK cleaver today, finally. Used it on a few jumbo sized onions, carrots, chilies, tomatoes and trimming some lamb. I forgot how easily cleavers fall through food, this one was a lot of fun to use. I really struggled with control though, I normally dice my onions into very fine cubes and while I got through the job twice as fast, the size/shape was a bit all over the place. Made short work of the carrots, chilies and tomatoes. No wedging on carrots + enough bite to go through overripe tomatoes isn't a combination my nakiri has. Trimming meat with it was quite difficult but I'm sure that's mainly a lack of skill on my part, I've only just started adjusting to larger gyutos but a cleaver is something else again...

Overall, I'll probably pick up a carbon cleaver at some point just because they're fun to use. But it won't be replacing my nakiri


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## madelinez

I'm not opposed to a Brisbane club, it's quite hard finding knives to try here without buying them.


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## Michi

madelinez said:


> while I got through the job twice as fast, the size/shape was a bit all over the place.


I had the same thing happening. I think part of the problem is that the knife is so tall that I have to really bend over to see the right side of the blade where it contacts the food when I'm cutting.


madelinez said:


> Trimming meat with it was quite difficult


Yes. It's a challenging knife to use. I'm a long way from being proficient with it. But I like using it because it's different and fun.

One thing I really like about it is how easily I can scoop up stuff after I've cut it to transfer it into a bowl or pot. No need for a bench scraper (which is what I normally use for that).


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## madelinez

Michi said:


> One thing I really like about it is how easily I can scoop up stuff after I've cut it to transfer it into a bowl or pot. No need for a bench scraper (which is what I normally use for that).



That's definitely one of the reasons I like using a nakiri, a cleaver does the job even better.


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## F-Flash

Michi said:


> BTW, if anyone has a KS 3124 with the original handle, I'd be interested to know what it weighs. I never weighed mine before I had the handle replaced.



Heres mine


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## Oui Chef

That patina


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## Michi

F-Flash said:


> Heres mine


Thank you!


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## tgfencer

Michi said:


> Just did a bit more prep with the Tansu and my Masamoto KS side by side. Not a lot of stuff, just a bit of mirepoix and garlic.
> 
> For onion and celery, there was almost no difference. For doing the horizontal cuts, the Tansu came out slightly ahead. The sides are so smooth and polished that the blade glides almost without friction through the onion. But for the vertical cuts, there was effectively no difference; neither was there when I used the section near the heel to do the chopping.
> 
> For carrots, the Tansu came out a little bit ahead. When cutting slabs with the KS, there was a bit of a cracking sound whereas, with the Tansu, it happens silently. Looking at the grind, the Tansu looks a little thinner behind the edge to me. So, it took a fraction less force to make the cuts, and the knife seemed to get through to the board with less effort. Part of that I suspect is again the highly polished sides of the Tansu; almost no friction against the produce.
> 
> Chopping garlic was as you would expect from looking at the profile. The Tansu has a bit more curvature in the last few centimetres towards the tip, so it rocks a little better than the KS. The KS can be used for rock chopping, but only for small amounts; the tip starts digging into the board if you lift up too high.
> 
> Stiction is probably about the same, with the KS being just a little ahead. The polished blade of the Tansu is an ideal surface for things to stick themselves to. The KS was a little better but, in all honesty, I don't think food release is great with either. It's acceptable, but not great.
> 
> Here is a profile comparison:
> View attachment 67194
> 
> The extra heel height of the Tansu is nice; the KS is just a touch on the low side for my taste. What surprised me is how similar the profiles are; for the first 70% of the blade, it's almost identical. It's only the change in the last 30% or so that makes the Tansu a better knife for rocking.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to do any proteins yet, other than a little bit of guanciale with the Tansu (which worked just fine, of course). When it comes to taking off slices of things in a clean long cut, I'd expect the KS to perform a little better, due to the lower height and the straighter profile. But, overall, if you want a universal knife for doing a bit of everything, the Tansu comes out ahead, in my opinion. It's a knife that is both more versatile, and a little easier to use.
> 
> At 245 g, the Tansu is not a light knife (which I like). My KS (with custom handle that is heavier than the original) also weighs exactly 245 g. Serendipity…
> 
> The surprising thing is that the Tansu feels a bit heavier. I guess the weight distribution is different. For the Tansu, the balance point is in line with the heel; for the KS, the balance point is back from the heel by about a centimetre. Because the KS also has longer machi, that makes the KS more handle-heavy and, in comparison, makes the Tansu more blade-heavy. When switching from one to the other, the Tansu feels more authoritative and solid, and the KS feels more nimble and elegant.
> View attachment 67195



I would just add Mert does a pretty great KS-profile if KS knives are something you enjoy. I had one for a spell, and while it wasn't really my thing profile-wise, the knife itself performed excellently.


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## madelinez

I asked for that profile because it was meant to be a generalist knife that could do everything well, and I couldn't be happier with it. I have a couple of other Tansu's but that one is my favourite, the only thing I dislike is the size of the handle, it can cause fatigue over time compared to some of my smaller handles.


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## chefcomesback

Send over and I will trim it down


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## Luftmensch

chefcomesback said:


> Send over and I will trim it down



What a great guy...


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## Michi

So, I just got back from my holiday and tried out @Imraan's recipe for spiced potatoes. I used my KS and the Tansu side by side to chop the raw potatoes. There is much less stiction with the KS; with the Tansu, the super-polished sides just invite the potato to suck itself onto the super-slick surface and stay there.

To be fair, the Tansu falls through a potato just a little more effortlessly than the KS. Still, I have to give the win to the KS here; pragmatically, it works a little better for potatoes.


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## Luftmensch

Michi said:


> tried out @Imraan's recipe for spiced potatoes.



Saw that... Looks tasty!


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## Jville

Michi said:


> So, I just got back from my holiday and tried out @Imraan's recipe for spiced potatoes. I used my KS and the Tansu side by side to chop the raw potatoes. There is much less stiction with the KS;
> 
> 
> Michi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, I just got back from my holiday and tried out @Imraan's recipe for spiced potatoes. I used my KS and the Tansu side by side to chop the raw potatoes. There is much less stiction with the KS; with the Tansu, the super-polished sides just invite the potato to suck itself onto the super-slick surface and stay there.
> 
> To be fair, the Tansu falls through a potato just a little more effortlessly than the KS. Still, I have to give the win to the KS here; pragmatically, it works a little better for potatoes.
Click to expand...

What kind of grind is the mert that you are using? Is it his laser or workhorse?


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## madelinez

Were you cutting with the heel or more towards the tip out of curiosity?


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## Michi

Basically straight down near the middle. When pulling back up, the slice would come up with the knife, sticking to the right side.

The KS does this, too, but to a lesser extent (and requires a touch more force).


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