# Looking for 18 cm stainless laser-like gyuto



## mark76 (Sep 14, 2014)

I'm looking for an 18 cm stainless or semi-stainless gyuto. Thin (laser-like) and with a good fit and finish.

So I thought: Suisin Inox Honyaki... no 18 cm stainless gyuto. Gesshin Ginga... no 18 cm stainless gyuto. Konosuke HH or HD... no 18 cm stainless gyuto. These brands usually have 18cm petties or (Gesshin ginga) 18 cm gyutos of carbon steel, but I'm not looking for that.

Are there any 18 cm (semi-)stainless laser-like gyutos on the market with good fit and finish? I have a preference for a wa handle, but if there is nothing on the market, I'll consider a yo handle.


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## citizenY (Sep 14, 2014)

you didn't mention your budget.

can't help you with the wa-gyuto, but i do own a 210 masamoto-vg gyuto, and they do have a 180mm version as well.
i am not that experienced with other brands, but i can tell you i am very pleased with the one i have.
it is very light in the hand, and very comfortable to work with, i sharpen it on dry/wet paper and polish on some aluminum oxide paste, and it take a very keen edge.
it did not need any thinning to begin with, and cuts very well.
as for the fit and finish, i have relatively big hands (188cm tall), and i find the handle to be just the right size for me, although the handle on the 180mm might be a little smaller. also it does not offer much as a "display" piece, if that is what you are after, simple pom black handle....

and yes, like you said it is "semi" stainless, i never got any rust on it, but leave it on the board for 20 minutes and it will stain, although the stains so far came out very easily.


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## riba (Sep 14, 2014)

pretty pleased with my 19 cm SS Yusuke (extra hard). but yeah, it isnt 18 cm


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Sep 14, 2014)

Takamura has 180mm gyuto. It's definitely a laser, stainless core with stainless cladding and western handle. I had no issues with fit and finish on my exemplar. Full convex grind on both sides. Pretty nice knife. 

They doesn't have a lot of reviews, but besides me there are few others KKF members who has such knives, so they might chime in if you care to heard their opinion about performance or f&f.


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## Timthebeaver (Sep 14, 2014)

Asai have 180mm wa gyutos in stainless clad aogami super, stainless damascus clad stainless and also a pricier PM stainless - all at epicurean edge, who offer 10% discount for kkf members.


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## andre s (Sep 14, 2014)

I like the Asai recommendation. I haven't tried it, but the profile seems attractive to me. At 180mm, you might want to consider santokus. If you don't mind flat profiled gyutos, a lot of them might fit the bill. In fact, I've considered the suisin inox honyaki santoku myself.


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## Timthebeaver (Sep 14, 2014)

Mizuno Tanrenjo make a Swedish stainless layzor - maybe worth shooting Koki at JCK an e-mail seeing if they'll make you a little 'un. When I enquired a few years ago he said that they could do a 255 custom size.


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## chinacats (Sep 14, 2014)

Custom Heiji? They run a tad long so you would need to specify an exact length, but his semi-stainless is good stuff.


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## mark76 (Sep 14, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Takamura has 180mm gyuto. It's definitely a laser, stainless core with stainless cladding and western handle. I had no issues with fit and finish on my exemplar. Full convex grind on both sides. Pretty nice knife.
> 
> They doesn't have a lot of reviews, but besides me there are few others KKF members who has such knives, so they might chime in if you care to heard their opinion about performance or f&f.



That Takamura sounds good! And when I googled it, I found it on a German site. Which is definitely an advantage for me, since I live in The Netherlands. This shop seems to have this knife with a number of blade steels. (Is it custom for them? - http://gx2.japan-messer-shop.de/Tak...uto-18-cm--handgeschmiedet-und--signiert.html says so). 

The specs on the site are sparse, though. And the knife is a bit hefty on the budget... I assume you refer to the VG-10 knife. Any idea how thin it is? And do you have any idea whether the damast variety is stainless as well?


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## Timthebeaver (Sep 14, 2014)

That Takamura is stainless clad, R2 (aka SG-2) core, a powdered metallurgical stainless - noted for its edge holding (with the usual proviso regargding heat treatment)


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## CoqaVin (Sep 14, 2014)

they also make SKD-11 and VG-10 now


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Sep 14, 2014)

mark76 said:


> The specs on the site are sparse, though. And the knife is a bit hefty on the budget... I assume you refer to the VG-10 knife. Any idea how thin it is? And do you have any idea whether the damast variety is stainless as well?



Takamura produces a wide range of knives, but I was referring to Takamura Migaki R2 (here R2 is a steel type, not just part of name). 
I bought mine from Canadian store  and their shipping costs were pretty high. 
So that particular model is very thin. I just measured mine and it's 1.49mm in the thickest part of spine. 
Different sources gives different numbers about how hard the core on this knife is. Ranging from 62 to 67 HRC. Well, don't know about real numbers, but it feels definitely hard. OOTB edge is very chippy, so you'd need to sharpen it almost immediately. 

In the beginning of summer I bought this Takamura and Watanabe 180mm gyuto. I though I was gonna compare them and sell the one I like less. Still have them both and have no plans of selling either of them. Very different knives and both are good performers.


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## Karnstein (Sep 14, 2014)

mark76 said:


> That Takamura sounds good! And when I googled it, I found it on a German site. Which is definitely an advantage for me, since I live in The Netherlands. This shop seems to have this knife with a number of blade steels. (Is it custom for them? - http://gx2.japan-messer-shop.de/Tak...uto-18-cm--handgeschmiedet-und--signiert.html says so).
> 
> The specs on the site are sparse, though. And the knife is a bit hefty on the budget... I assume you refer to the VG-10 knife. Any idea how thin it is? And do you have any idea whether the damast variety is stainless as well?


If you don't care about the damascus finish, the same store also sells a Takamura R2 under their own "Asagao" brand name: http://gx2.japan-messer-shop.de/neueingetroffen/ASAGAO-PM-Stahl-Gyuto-21-cm-Takamura-Migaki-R2.html Given the specs that one should be identical to the one sold in the US as the Takamura Migaki R2 and it's only 135.


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## Ruso (Sep 14, 2014)

> I bought mine from Canadian store and their shipping costs were pretty high.



icanhaschzbrgr, I was eyeballing Takamura R2 for a while now. How is the edge holding in your experience? And yea, shipping from Canada with tracking is ridiculously expensive.


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## daveb (Sep 14, 2014)

Mark, Dropping an email to Ian @ Haburn may be the easy answer to your requirements. His base price is not appreciably more than Suisin IH and if you want 180 you'll get a 180. I recently used his stock 210 in the passaround and was pretty impressed. Another option is a Carter. He produces a lot of Funy.... in that size range.


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## mark76 (Sep 14, 2014)

daveb said:


> Mark, Dropping an email to Ian @ Haburn may be the easy answer to your requirements. His base price is not appreciably more than Suisin IH and if you want 180 you'll get a 180. I recently used his stock 210 in the passaround and was pretty impressed. Another option is a Carter. He produces a lot of Funy.... in that size range.



Thanks Daveb. But does Carter do stainless knives? What is the way to get one? The buy/sell/trade forum? It seems that Carters personal site is usually sold out.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Sep 15, 2014)

Ruso said:


> icanhaschzbrgr, I was eyeballing Takamura R2 for a while now. How is the edge holding in your experience? And yea, shipping from Canada with tracking is ridiculously expensive.



I have to stress that I'm using knives in home environment, so now hours long cutting sessions. Just looked into my records and it seems that last time I sharpened Takamura was in the beginning of July. Since then I stropped it 2-3 times on felt and balsa. It's not razor sharp, but cuts just well. A month ago I got microscope and was peering at the edges of my knives. I noticed that Takamura actually does chip, but that's a micro chipping that you can't see with naked eye (I haven't put micro bevel last time I sharpened it) also that micro chipping might actually serve as micro serration and help with cutting (though that's just a speculation).


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## otoro (Sep 15, 2014)

mark76 said:


> That Takamura sounds good! And when I googled it, I found it on a German site. Which is definitely an advantage for me, since I live in The Netherlands. This shop seems to have this knife with a number of blade steels. (Is it custom for them? - http://gx2.japan-messer-shop.de/Tak...uto-18-cm--handgeschmiedet-und--signiert.html says so).
> 
> The specs on the site are sparse, though. And the knife is a bit hefty on the budget... I assume you refer to the VG-10 knife. Any idea how thin it is? And do you have any idea whether the damast variety is stainless as well?








That's how thin my hana is


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## otoro (Sep 15, 2014)

Timthebeaver said:


> Asai have 180mm wa gyutos in stainless clad aogami super, stainless damascus clad stainless and also a pricier PM stainless - all at epicurean edge, who offer 10% discount for kkf members.



I have both asai pm and takamura hana. the hana is much thinner than asai but asai have better edge retention


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## otoro (Sep 15, 2014)

Side by side comparison


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## otoro (Sep 15, 2014)




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## mark76 (Sep 15, 2014)

otoro said:


>



Thanks! The Takamura seems very thin. Found it online, too. But where do I find the Asai? (Japan-messer-shop has an Azai. Is that the same?)


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## mark76 (Sep 15, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> ]
> In the beginning of summer I bought this Takamura and Watanabe 180mm gyuto. I though I was gonna compare them and sell the one I like less. Still have them both and have no plans of selling either of them. Very different knives and both are good performers.



I am curious as to how they differ, Anton. Especially if you still like both of them  .


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## mark76 (Sep 15, 2014)

Oh, and I forgot to ask. Is this the R2?

Thanks!


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## Ruso (Sep 15, 2014)

Mark76, Watanabe does not use R2 steel. He uses carbon White or Blue steel with iron or stainless for shorter blades clad. So the knife is not 100% stainless. 
Also Watanabe is not a laser, so I can totally see how Anton likes both. Each will be better for different tasks and perform slightly different on the same.


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## otoro (Sep 15, 2014)

mark76 said:


> Thanks! The Takamura seems very thin. Found it online, too. But where do I find the Asai? (Japan-messer-shop has an Azai. Is that the same?)



Yes it is the same, you should consider masakage kotetsu too, https://cuttingedgeknives.co.uk/brands/kotetsu/iron-clad/gyuto-210mm .


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## mark76 (Sep 25, 2014)

Guys, I found the Takamura R2 in a webshop nearby. It looks like a great knife. Thanks for the profile photos and comparison!







The only thing I am hesitant about is the handle. For some reason a nice handle is important to me. And this one looks reddish and plastic-like?

What do the people think who actually have the knife. (It may look different in reality from a pic.) Is it actually plastic-like or is it a nice piece of wood? And how does it feel in the hand? I use a pinch grip.


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## mark76 (Sep 25, 2014)

Oops. Can't edit my previous post. But what I wanted to ask is how it feels in the hand compared to a Japanese handled knife. It is full tang and seems rather heavy compared to most J-knives of that size.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Sep 25, 2014)

The handle seems to be made from some kind of dyed wood. It looks and feels pretty good in hand. No rough spots and no voids between spine and scales (scales is wrong name, as it uses one single piece of wood for the whole handle). Nothing spectacular just a nice handle. Balance point is on bolster.

here's a lousy vid
[video=youtube;GHADNkaXbVA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHADNkaXbVA[/video]


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## mark76 (Sep 25, 2014)

Thanks Anton! It's pakka wood: natural wood impregnated with lots of resin. http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_pakka_wood .

Does it feel a lot heavier in the hand than a thin Japanese handled gyuto or does it feel light?


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## mark76 (Sep 25, 2014)

Otoro, how is the profile of the Azai? If I go for a thicker knife, it should at least have a very nice convex profile.


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## otoro (Sep 26, 2014)

I have azai choil shot for you


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## otoro (Sep 26, 2014)

mark76 said:


> Otoro, how is the profile of the Azai? If I go for a thicker knife, it should at least have a very nice convex profile.



They both have similar profile but takamura is slightly slimmer


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## mark76 (Sep 26, 2014)

Thanks Otoro, but by profile I meant the cross section profile. Perhaps the word blade grind is more appropriate. What you see when you take a choil shot. For example, whether the blade is full flat ground or convex (and how much).


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## MikeHL (Sep 26, 2014)

mark76 said:


> Thanks Anton! It's pakka wood: natural wood impregnated with lots of resin. http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_pakka_wood .
> 
> Does it feel a lot heavier in the hand than a thin Japanese handled gyuto or does it feel light?



It feels light for gyuto. The handle is on the small/thin side compared to other gyuto handles.


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## chinacats (Sep 26, 2014)

mark76 said:


> Thanks Otoro, but by profile I meant the cross section profile. Perhaps the word blade grind is more appropriate. What you see when you take a choil shot. For example, whether the blade is full flat ground or convex (and how much).



As PT had written earlier in another thread, this "profile" (cross section) would be referred to as geometry. Really helps when everyone is on the same page with terms.


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## Casaluz (Nov 13, 2014)

If you hve not had a laser in your hands I would suggest to handle one before commiting to one. I thought it would be wonderful to have one and when I finally got it it took me a few seconds to realize (to my surprise) that I really diod not like its "lightness" and needed something a bit more substantial... just a thought to be taken with a pinch of salt :biggrin:


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