# Takamura Migaki R2 Gyuto questions (or similar knife)



## Hanmak17 (Jan 21, 2016)

Hi All,

Having decided that I am ready for new knifes, I have been reading (at nausea) all the common sites and forums to learn about JK's. Despite having a reasonable grasp on the various steels, manufacturers (and subs) and vendors, It seems that there is too much subjectivity in the matter which makes discerning which is the best knife incredibly difficult. 

It appears that many of the knifes under $300 are probably high quality steel, with better/lesser heat treatment, but often lack appropriate quality in the manf process leading to poor f&f and/or poor quality handles etc. 

Anyhow, I stumbled on this knife on one of the other sites. http://www.chuboknives.com/products/takamura-r2-gyutou-210mm-8-2#.VqFbKugrLIU
It is intriguing in that it appears to be low maintenance steel, with a western style handle that looks reasonable well put together. But I'm curious about the thinness of the blade, ability to hold an edge, and how difficult to sharpen this knife will be. 

Does anyone have any experience with this knife or a similar knife using R2/SG2 steel that is as thin as this (1.6mm). 

About me:

LOCATION:USA

KNIFE TYPE: Gyuto

Right handed

Western (or Japanese if high quality f&f)

Length: 210-240mm

Prefer stainless or semi-stainless cladding. This may change but I'm leaning Stainless

Maximum budget for your knife? $300 (though money up to a point isn't the limiting factor)


KNIFE USE: Home (heavy use)

Main tasks: (slicing/chopping/mincing vegetables, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)

What knife, if any, are you replacing: Henkels

Pinch grip exclusively

Push cut / Chop

Improvements sought: Comfort holding knife with pinch grip, lighter weight, sharpness and ability to keep sharp

Asthetics are important but less so then functionality and durability

Comfort: (lighter knife; quality handle material; better handle shape; *rounded spine/choil of the knife!!!!*; improved balance)

Ease of Use (ability to use the knife right out of the box; low reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)

Edge Retention: I don't want to have to sharpen every other month. Ideally i only have to sharpen a couple times a year



KNIFE MAINTENANCE

Walnut end grain board

Will learn to sharpen free form, very interested in learning. Have budgeted for stones etc.


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 21, 2016)

PS: The other knife I am looking at is the Kurosaki Migaki

http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-chiku-migaki-gyuto-240mm-aogami-super-stainless-clad-by-kurosaki/

Needless to say a very different knife, but I have read very good things about these knifes and like the clean finish and improved handle.


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## CoqaVin (Jan 21, 2016)

I don't know anything about the Takamura, but I own a 270 Chiku 270 Suji, and all I can say about Kurosaki is that he is putting out some awesome knives at a great price, get them before the prices catch up to the level of his work


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## Godslayer (Jan 21, 2016)

The takamura is thin. Laser thin. It's flexible. Holds an edge with the best of them but is slightly harder to sharpen than my carbon knives. It is defiantly worth the price. It can't be your only knife though. It's too thin for large root veg, or anything super hard. Feels clumsy, like a filet knife. It does however destroy produce, makes onions it's biotch and is in my opinion one of the best knives if not the best knife available for $200 cad $150 usd. Yus knife is better for all purpose. I would honestly buy this and a 240 from james. $300 usd won't get you there but saving a smidge more would.


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## Godslayer (Jan 21, 2016)

If your interested knifewear in kelowna had a takamura uchigumo 210 for 20% off $570 so $450ish cad which should be around your max budget and it is without a doubt the sexiest non carbon blade I own. It's beefy enough for everyday use and thin enough to get through items with a breeze. Super sexy acid etched damascus. Sale ends Saturday so youd have to act fast.


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## richard (Jan 22, 2016)

Godslayer said:


> Feels clumsy, like a filet knife.


 Are you sure you meant to use the word 'clumsy'?


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## Godslayer (Jan 22, 2016)

Clumsy may be the wrong word. It's light and flexible. Closer to a scalpal than a sword. Most of my other knives feel like axes by comparison. Which isn't a bad thing, it fills a niche, it also being smaller doesn't scare the ladies as much. I think mines around 45-46mm tall as well, to give you an idea on height.


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## CoqaVin (Jan 22, 2016)

I agree with you Godslayer, I have a 270 K-tip Kono HD, and I don't like using it for harder ingredients, because exactly like you said it doesn't feel very stiff and is wonky?


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## Jovidah (Jan 23, 2016)

Regarding the Takamura; it's been reviewed in depth on a german forum (because it's offered rather cheap as a rebranded home-brand model by a webshop). Can be found here: http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?128196-Review-ASAGAO-Gyuto-210-R2

It's all in German but most of the pictures and data should speak for themselves. The short summary of the reviews is that it's a really thin laser, delivered very thin with a very acute angle edge, that is a bit fragile. Therefore the recommendation is to put a microbevel on it as the factory edge has microchipping issues. With a microbevel (or lower angle than the 9 degrees from the factory) no microchipping occurs.


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 23, 2016)

Jovidah said:


> Regarding the Takamura; it's been reviewed in depth on a german forum (because it's offered rather cheap as a rebranded home-brand model by a webshop). Can be found here: http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?128196-Review-ASAGAO-Gyuto-210-R2
> 
> It's all in German but most of the pictures and data should speak for themselves. The short summary of the reviews is that it's a really thin laser, delivered very thin with a very acute angle edge, that is a bit fragile. Therefore the recommendation is to put a microbevel on it as the factory edge has microchipping issues. With a microbevel (or lower angle than the 9 degrees from the factory) no microchipping occurs.




Thanks that is precisely what I was worried about. Appreciate all the feedback here. 

I think I'm going to move in another direction. Looking at Tesshu, Watanabe, Kurosaki, Konosuki, Toyama or one of the similar Gesshin lines. See if I can find something that I can convert to a western handle and ground/sharpened to my tastes.


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## Godslayer (Jan 23, 2016)

Kurosaki makes western handled knives. Email james amd maybe he can get you one of the r2 ones. Tanaka r2 is another option. There's one on bst for $340 now. Watanabe makes a nice blade but his western handled are a joke. Maybe have Dave install a hidden tang westren?


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## chinacats (Jan 23, 2016)

Hanmak17 said:


> I think I'm going to move in another direction. Looking at Tesshu, Watanabe, Kurosaki, Konosuki, Toyama or one of the similar Gesshin lines. See if I can find something that I can convert to a western handle and ground/sharpened to my tastes.



No offense, but you're all over the place with this...I'm thinking that you may actually like a Watanabe or a Toyoma since you are coming from a Henckels. As to having to spend this much money to get a high quality knife, absolutely not. Check out the Tanaka upgrades from James, absolutely some of the best cutters made and the price is right.

As to the handle, maybe give a wa a chance, most find them to be very comfortable.


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 24, 2016)

chinacats said:


> No offense, but you're all over the place with this...I'm thinking that you may actually like a Watanabe or a Toyoma since you are coming from a Henckels.



None taken. This is a very steep learning curve, which I'm just beginning to climb. 

I'm not adverse to a wa handle knife just reading a lot of posts that complain about f&f of the handles on many of these knives. 

What I do know is that I don't like the weight or thickness of the German knives. I realize now that they wedge terribly on dense material and lose their edge rapidly. Discovering the santoku version of the henkel was an eye opener. The lighter weight and thinner profile immediately resonated with me. Unfortunately it's still not it, thus my research in jk's.

It seems that most prefer a blade that is very thin behind the edge but with a little "ass" on em. This sounds like watanabe, toyoma and others. Have been reading about the Gesshin Gengestu, Heiji and the Yoshikane SLD today which seems to fit this style as well.


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 24, 2016)

Godslayer said:


> Kurosaki makes western handled knives. Email james amd maybe he can get you one of the r2 ones. Tanaka r2 is another option. There's one on bst for $340 now. Watanabe makes a nice blade but his western handled are a joke. Maybe have Dave install a hidden tang westren?



Curious your opinion of the Kurosaki blades vs others mentioned. I can't find many reviews or other input. They seem a potential gem from lesser known craftsman but not sure yet. 

Also what is BST?

Thanks.


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## Tobes (Jan 24, 2016)

Buy/Sell/Trade. The forums sub-category to sell and buy stuff.


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## Godslayer (Jan 24, 2016)

Hanmak17 said:


> Curious your opinion of the Kurosaki blades vs others mentioned. I can't find many reviews or other input. They seem a potential gem from lesser known craftsman but not sure yet.
> 
> Also what is BST?
> 
> Thanks.



I have a few of his knives all carbons. His knives are what I would call mid weight and very thin behind the edge. Hes young for a black smith but was trained in an interesting manner, multiple masters. I'd give a nudge to his as lines over his shimo line. But he also has multiple r2 lines and a colbalt steel line(forget the exact steel) that I know is less hard and maybe more forgiving. I can honestly say in 10 years he may/should command kato/shig pricing. He also does a lot of really cool finishes. Custom shapped hammers, unusual designs and cool linen micarta handles. Of all thé masakage lines his work is also the best(have yet to try kujira).


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 24, 2016)

Thank you for the feedback here. I finally feel like I am narrowing my search down,,,LOL (at least today). 

I'm going to run down to Bernal Cutlery tomorrow to look at the Yoshikane SKD and Konosuke they have in stock. I have read so many good things about the Yoshikane combined with the ability to go look touch and cut with one, must do. 

I then want to talk to James about availability of one the special Kurosaki "migaki" knifes he had before xmas, or if he can get one of the AS knifes with a western handle. I suspect this is what I will end up with. 

Lastly I want to talk to Maxim about the Toyama. The Toyama would be a no brainer if they had a stainless clad version. I just don't trust myself to take care of a fully reactive blade.


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## Chicagohawkie (Jan 24, 2016)

For home use and for the money spent the migaki is a great knive! Ya the the edge is aggressive but with a microbevel or reducing the edge angle a bit clears up most issues with micro chipping. I have one and it's pretty perfect, never an issue with it. Wish they made a 240!


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 24, 2016)

Having a German santoku opening your eyes is a start. The knives you are looking at will blow your mind. These thin Japanese blades will excel cutting most fruits & vegetables and meat without bone. I hold the line with things that are really hard like a Kabocha pumpkin.

Use your German blades for the tougher jobs. If you have common sense using a thin blade it will reward you with cutting pleasure for a majority of tasks.


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 24, 2016)

Well impatience and a little luck have worked in my favor. Just picked up a Tanaka R2 210 wa-gyuto on the bts forum. Good opportunity to figure out what I like by trial and error.


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## Godslayer (Jan 24, 2016)

Hanmak17 said:


> Well impatience and a little luck have worked in my favor. Just picked up a Tanaka R2 210 wa-gyuto on the bts forum. Good opportunity to figure out what I like by trial and error.



Yeah good thing about this is even if you dont like it you can sell for at or near cost


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 24, 2016)

I'm probably going to buy one of the kurosaki AS migaki as soon as they available as well. My sense is that the Tanaka is going to be a bit to flexi/fragile for my tastes but I want to see.


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## Chicagohawkie (Jan 24, 2016)

Hanmak17 said:


> Well impatience and a little luck have worked in my favor. Just picked up a Tanaka R2 210 wa-gyuto on the bts forum. Good opportunity to figure out what I like by trial and error.



That's a badass knife! You'll be happy! Trust me!


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 24, 2016)

I'm probably going to buy one of the kurosaki AS migaki as soon as they available as well. My sense is that the Tanaka is going to be a bit to flexi/fragile for my tastes but I want to see.


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 25, 2016)

Picked up a Kato 210 yesterday as well. I'm going to be a great source for cheap quality knifes at some point...LOL


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## miggus (Feb 3, 2017)

Hanmak17 said:


> Well impatience and a little luck have worked in my favor. Just picked up a Tanaka R2 210 wa-gyuto on the bts forum. Good opportunity to figure out what I like by trial and error.



So, how did that work out for you? Happy with the knife?


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## Hanmak17 (Feb 5, 2017)

miggus said:


> So, how did that work out for you? Happy with the knife?



Love the Kato, really love the Kato. Going to sell the Tanaka. I dont.like the Damascus, find that it iratates the forefinger of my left hand when cutting heavy quantities. 

I would really like the Tanaka otherwise,


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