# Putting your name on something you don't make....?



## jgraeff (Mar 31, 2012)

Most of you will know what I'm referring to and the fact is i like the site and the guy who runs it. However i disagree with how he is producing products under his name.

I feel like he's hasn't taking the time to learn how to make the products, and is just taking others people's hard work and skill and copying them in mass manufacturing and offering at a lower price. Sounds a lot like china to me but here in our own US.

Maybe I'm taking this to much to heart but it really irks me, i considered buying one at one point, i saw one a friend had, you can tell that it is machine cut, there isn't very much love in these productions at all. I think id rather spend the extra money from a company who actually puts pride into what they make. 

What do you guys think about it??


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## oivind_dahle (Mar 31, 2012)

Do you think Apple makes the iPhone?
Do you think Levis, Lee and wrangler makes their jeans?


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## jgraeff (Mar 31, 2012)

no but both of those are made extremely well..... i think i wouldn't care as much if there were not copies and made with pride


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## tgraypots (Mar 31, 2012)

I would love it if everyone in the USA bought and used handmade pots in their kitchens and dining rooms -- I, and my friends here, would be considerably more fiscally "comfortable." But it isn't going to happen. When you think about it, almost every product we use is made in some type of factory, somewhere, and some of which have their names on the product. Even many of the Japanese knives we love so much are made in small factories -- forged in one place, ground in another, handled by someone else, sharpened elsewhere, and a business name etched on. If you don't like what any particular business does, don't support them. I think he is providing a service, and doing something we should all aspire to -- finding a need and filling it, AND having a good time doing it.


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## El Pescador (Mar 31, 2012)

There's a Kikuichi TKC for sale right now in the B/S/T, and no one at Kikuichi had anything to do with making that knife other than picking up the phone and ordering it. If you think something's a good deal, then buy it.


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## Eamon Burke (Mar 31, 2012)

Henry Ford, anyone?


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## DeepCSweede (Mar 31, 2012)

Happens all the time. A large part of what my father in laws tool company produces does not carry his Company's name because the big box stores want their name on it.


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## PierreRodrigue (Mar 31, 2012)

If a product is touted as handmade, and isn't I would have an issue with it. As long as you have been told the product you are buying is made in a factory, you know what to expect. If its being fronted as a handmade, then I would call BS, and go else where.


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## jgraeff (Mar 31, 2012)

PierreRodrigue said:


> If a product is touted as handmade, and isn't I would have an issue with it. As long as you have been told the product you are buying is made in a factory, you know what to expect. If its being fronted as a handmade, then I would call BS, and go else where.



good statement i agree.


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## ajhuff (Mar 31, 2012)

It's called product licensing. No big deal. If I said I made it and I didn't sure, that's false advertising. If I say it's hand made or custom but I don't say by whom, nothing wrong in that. It's the buyers fault for jumping to the conclusion that I made it.

Honda makes engines for GM, never heard anyone complain.

-AJ


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## ajhuff (Mar 31, 2012)

Perhaps a more pertinent example. None of the enameled cast iron cookware sold by Lodge is made by Lodge. No where does their product indicate that. 

-AJ


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## El Pescador (Mar 31, 2012)

I got what the o/p is posting. At times I feel that the website's star rating system can be misleading/disingenuous. How can a factory produced knife get the same five star rating as a custom DT gyuto? But I do think there is value in what is being sold there if you know what you're buying and understand a $175 knife is just that.


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## Eamon Burke (Mar 31, 2012)

El Pescador said:


> I got what the o/p is posting. At times I feel that the website's star rating system can be misleading/disingenuous. How can a factory produced knife get the same five star rating as a custom DT gyuto?


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## Lefty (Mar 31, 2012)

I have no problem with it at all. He's not claiming to make them, but rather come up with the idea and make it happen.
Business is business and he has a good mind for it.


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## 99Limited (Mar 31, 2012)

jgraeff said:


> ... I feel like he's hasn't taking the time to learn how to make the products, and is just taking others people's hard work and skill and copying them in mass manufacturing and offering at a lower price. Sounds a lot like china to me but here in our own US.
> 
> What do you guys think about it??



So every person who wants to sell their own knives needs to reinvent the wheel every time just so they can end up at the same place that was already figured out years ago? I do not understand why people want to continue beating up on M.R. for trying to bring new products to market in which he put his own name on them. Maybe his product naming convention is kind of goofy and his Addict 1.0, which I own, wasn't very good, at least he keeps trying to make improvements and he will eventually create a really good knife at a price point that everyone could afford. 

Maybe you should post your feelings on this KF and get some direct feedback from M.R. or call him and talk to him on how you feel. I think in the end you may change you opinion.


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## stevenStefano (Mar 31, 2012)

99Limited said:


> Maybe you should post your feelings on this KF and get some direct feedback from M.R. or call him and talk to him on how you feel. I think in the end you may change you opinion.



Any post like that would get deleted straight away

I have no problem with it personally. The knives are his idea pretty much and he's the one spending the $$$ on their creation so why not name them after himself


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## Marko Tsourkan (Mar 31, 2012)

I have no problem with knife dealers commissioning knives and putting their names on them. Japanese do it all the time - OEM is a big part of knife-making in Japan, especially in Sakai. Normally it is implied that knives made to order, but sometimes it is not obvious and you have to do a little research. 

I do have a problem with makers pass production (factory-made) knives for mid-tech, by putting handles on and doing minor work on them. A full disclosure is required, if one values his/her reputation. 

I also have a problem when a knife maker passes an OEM knives as his own. I wrote to one Japanese maker and asked about it and he lied through his teeth. Not cool.

M


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## Marko Tsourkan (Mar 31, 2012)

99Limited said:


> So every person who wants to sell their own knives needs to reinvent the wheel every time just so they can end up at the same place that was already figured out years ago?



Haha, you would think people learned lessons throughout history, but in reality, many do attempt to "reinvent a wheel" and it shows. 

People have tendency to copy beautiful things. Sometimes, improvement can be added to original design, but often, there is not much to improve. There is nothing wrong with copying a knife profile, geometry, a handle. In fact, by going this route, one is likely to end up with a better knife.

M


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## ajhuff (Mar 31, 2012)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> I do have a problem with makers pass production (factory-made) knives for mid-tech, by putting handles on and doing minor work on them. A full disclosure is required, if one values his/her reputation.
> 
> 
> M



I still don't see the issue here. This is basically what a Shelby Cobra is.

If you bought out the remaining stock of Nogents, polished them up, put a superior edge on them, ground the bolster and put a fancy handle on them people here would be singing your praises worldwide. You'd be the next big thing. You could even package them and rename them Markogents and people would love it.

It really sees more like people have personal issues for this type of bitterness. I do agree with your third example.

-Aj


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## jgraeff (Mar 31, 2012)

Not sure who posted it but I have nothing against mark at all and I have done and continue to do business through his site. I don't go in KF anymore as I think this forum is better overall ad has much more friendly helpful individuals. 

A lot of you have posted good responses and after hearing it different ways I guess it does make sense in a business way.

People seem to take this types of questions way to seriously I was merely asking other opinions you don't have to get defensive over it. 

However now that I have read other replies I do see it differently.


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## El Pescador (Apr 1, 2012)

jgraeff said:


> Not sure who posted it but I have nothing against mark at all and I have done and continue to do business through his site. I don't go in KF anymore as I think this forum is better overall ad has much more friendly helpful individuals.
> 
> A lot of you have posted good responses and after hearing it different ways I guess it does make sense in a business way.
> 
> ...



+1...


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