# I'm gonna try to go vegan for half a month.



## boomchakabowwow (Jul 16, 2017)

I want to see what it does to my cholesterol and blood pressure. I'm on the lightest dose of BP meds, and to be honest! It bums me out. I'm physical. I mtn bike regularly. My job as a construction eng is not sedentary at all. My cholesterol is always okay! But it is tapping at the upper end of the spectrum. 

It sucks my doc just wants to medicate me. I figure it's up to me to try this. 

I'm going full vegan. Dragging my poor wife w me since I do all the cooking. 

Day one down. 

I am full. Almost too full. I underestimated the fillin power of fiberous veggies.


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## labor of love (Jul 17, 2017)

If I were you I would pay close attention to the carb choices you make. Simply choosing lower glycemic foods and in smaller ratios to everything else on the plate can have a pretty big impact on cholesterol and BP levels. Vegan diet should help with a reduced sodium intake which should help. I've used the south beach diet(the book was written by a cardiologist) to help with similar issues in the past and I had favorable results. Good luck.


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## rahimlee54 (Jul 18, 2017)

It will probably work, but as Labor pointed out better dietary choices may also work. Whatever works for you is the best approach though. I'll be interested to hear an update, I am curious if 2 weeks is enough time for appreciable changes and if you stopped the pill before the diet switch.

My wife has really high familial cholesterol that nothing but drugs will bring down into "normal" range, she started taking meds for it in her 20s. Diet is a very powerful tool but sometimes additional help is a good thing. Good luck sir.

Thanks
Jared


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## chinacats (Jul 18, 2017)

I suffer from hereditary high bp ananwhen in my best shape I still needed meds. Done the vegan thing before myself and actually rather enjoyed it as you had to be somewhat creative to keep coming up with interesting things to eat. I too wonder if two weeks would be enough time to show any significant improvement... and my diet digestion would actually be Mediterranean. Best of luck!


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## foody518 (Jul 18, 2017)

Power to you and best of luck. Keep filling starches on the plate and try to watch the oils intake as well

Your last snippet. That's part of why I like this type of eating. My ability to portion control is crap, hate being hungry


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## frog13 (Jul 18, 2017)

My cholesterol and A1C were borderline for meds plus at 61, my hip needs replacing. Doc told me to kill all the birds with one stone, lose 50# to get my blood counts under control, lose 100# for best surgery and rehab results. Well, 7 months and 115# later, blood counts are all normal, BP is great and almost ready to get the bionic leg. Knew I needed a sustainable long term plan so didn't diet per se ...... Cut out all carbs directly related to refined sugar, white flour, etc. Didn't want to go to extreme so things like sauces, condiments, etc. I still allowed. I learned what portions look like and now control them. Typical meal is 4-5oz. protein and a ton of veggies, 3-5 servings of fruit per day. Amazingly, I am happy, don't miss the pasta, bread, potatoes and such. Now I allow myself a portion of some of these, usually once a week max. Now that I understand what I should eat, what a portion size looks like and what foods are not that good for me it has become second nature and I believe sustainable. I believe that is the key to success, it has to be a change yo can live with forever.


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## dwalker (Jul 18, 2017)

Remember vegan does not equate to healthy. Oreos are vegan. Watch your carbs, salt, refined grains, and oil.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 19, 2017)

herbivores are vegetarians. 
carnivores eat meat.
omnivores eat a mixture of meat ,vegetables, carbs ,Dairy,fruit ,nuts ,Etc

humans are omnivores you can tell by the teeth, we have large molars in the back for grinding food and sharper teeth Upfront for biting and tearing meat.
cows are herbivores, only equipped with teeth to eat grass,
lions are carnivores and only have sharp teeth for eating meat.

since humans are omnivores, I believe it's an unhealthy practice to have any diet ,such as vegan or vegetarian is not natural for human beings.


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## Nemo (Jul 19, 2017)

I think it's important to realise that we still have a very limited understanding of human metabolic physiology and even of what constitutes a healthy diet. This has not been helped by over half a century of research that has been tainted by vested interests.

It is fairly clear that western diets are asscoated with metabolic diseases such as diabetes, obesity, gout, heart disease and Alzheimer's disease.

Why is not so clear. Processed foods seem to be strongly implicated, as do refined carbohydrates (especially sugar, HFCS, flour). Some recent evidence suggests a role of excessive animal protein but this is still unclear. Recent interest in the role of a teliologically ancient common metabolic signalling pathway callled mTOR is interesting because as well as being responsive to metabolic hormones (insulin, leptin, thyroxine, cortisol etc), mTOR is directly affected by free carbohydrates and free amino acids (especially branched chain aa predominant in animal protein). One of the theories behind the efficacy of intermittent fasting is that it gives your cells a bit of time every few days with mTOR turned off, which allows repair and regeneration of the cell's molecular machinery.

Like I said, still very theoretical. The more we learn, the more we realise there is still to learn...


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jul 19, 2017)

@Wok "obligate" or not obligate omnivore, that is the question 

And I would really doubt anything is wrong with vegetarian (as in, ovo-lacto vegetarian) - plenty of animal protein accessible via eggs and dairy.

BTW, it's true about the oreos  Though I wonder that they are considered a binge-able food - the bitter baking soda/burnt cocoa aftertaste, and the adstringency, makes them something I could only overeat a little on 

Oh, and: In case you eat a lot of rice, be aware that the difference in glycemic index even between white rice varieties is extreme!


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## tsuriru (Jul 19, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> be aware that the difference in glycemic index even between white rice varieties is extreme!



extreme, and does not appear clearly on lables.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jul 19, 2017)

Longer grain, lower GI seems to be often true  And quality basmati is worth the price anyway


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## Moooza (Jul 19, 2017)

I'm vegan.

It took a few years to build up to and would be very difficult to change so suddenly. 

It is certainly not healthier by default. In fact, it requires effort to maintain your health - although it's easy once you know what you are doing. Going vegetarian, cutting out eggs but still eating fish and some dairy is probably a much better idea.

Or, just cut all junk food, drink only water and eat mostly vegetables, not too much.


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## Nemo (Jul 19, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Longer grain, lower GI seems to be often true  And quality basmati is worth the price anyway



I pretty much only ever eat Basmati. Worth buying the good stuff you reckon?


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jul 19, 2017)

Not the super posh ones, but be aware that a $5/2lb packet will usually come with basmati while a $2/2lb packet will (or should) come with small print that says it has been blended with other varieties....


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## Nemo (Jul 19, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Not the super posh ones, but be aware that a $5/2lb packet will usually come with basmati while a $2/2lb packet will (or should) come with small print that says it has been blended with other varieties....



I'll keep an eye out for that.

I think that Australian food labelling laws are pretty strict but I'll still check.


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## 42537703 (Jul 19, 2017)

Vegan diet trends to associate with vitamin B12 and protein insufficiency( due to incomplete amino acids from single source of food). Make sure you have these area covered.


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## 42537703 (Jul 19, 2017)

Quite a few have mentioned GI index. But the thing is it does not take into account the amount of carbs in a food. So you can look at glycemic load as it is a better indicator of how a carb food will affect blood glucose level. Which means that you also need to watch for the amount of food you consumed.


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## foody518 (Jul 19, 2017)

42537703 said:


> Vegan diet trends to associate with vitamin B12 and protein insufficiency( due to incomplete amino acids from single source of food). Make sure you have these area covered.



You want to substantiate that protein insufficiency meme? I haven't yet met or heard of anyone in my community who has kwashiokor who is eating sufficient calories and not all from like soda or popcorn

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/


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## 42537703 (Jul 19, 2017)

foody518 said:


> You want to substantiate that protein insufficiency meme? I haven't yet met or heard of anyone in my community who has kwashiokor who is eating sufficient calories and not all from like soda or popcorn


 
I guess I have used the wrong word. The point I want to make is that most vegetable do not have all the essential amino acids, and you need different foods source to cover the missing one.


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## foody518 (Jul 19, 2017)

42537703 said:


> I guess I have used the wrong word. The point I want to make is that most vegetable do not have all the essential amino acids, and you need different foods source to cover the missing one.



Yes and I am asking if you can substantiate that meme


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## 42537703 (Jul 19, 2017)

I didn't see the link you posted. There are some new information that I have never heard of.


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## foody518 (Jul 19, 2017)

http://www.botanical-online.com/fotos/alimentos/essential-aminoacids.jpg
http://www.healthy-soul.com/images/vegan-protein-graph.png


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## 42537703 (Jul 19, 2017)

Unfortunately, That's the stuff they are still teaching in uni currently about the incomplete protein from vegan diet. Even although the video have provided several studies that against the concept, that's doesn't mean these studies are of good quality. I think it would be good to look for systematic review studies on this topic, as there is just too much controversy among the area.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jul 19, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Yes and I am asking if you can substantiate that meme


For the B12 issue:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20648045


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## boomchakabowwow (Jul 19, 2017)

from a home-cook perspective. it is so far a blast. getting creative in the kitchen has been fun.

last night..i cooked some white beans, and potato smashered them into a oil-less "refried" bean. served over a crispy tortilla, with mexican rice, and the biggest damn scoop of homemaked pico de gallo. 

the omnivore thing..pointy teeth? human teeth are not that pointy. and our jaws go side to side. this is a debate for the ages..

i'm just doing it for fun and to see what happens. i am an avid bowhunter, and that truly is the biggest rub.  hell, if i only ate what i killed that would be awesome..but lately, that WOULD make me a vegan.


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## foody518 (Jul 19, 2017)

Nemo said:


> I think it's important to realise that we still have a very limited understanding of human metabolic physiology and even of what constitutes a healthy diet. This has not been helped by over half a century of research that has been tainted by vested interests.
> 
> It is fairly clear that western diets are asscoated with metabolic diseases such as diabetes, obesity, gout, heart disease and Alzheimer's disease.
> 
> ...



@Nemo, one take on the metabolic diseases (at the very least relative to excess weight gain and the risk factors to many diseases associated with that) I've run across relates the problems to modern foods and their calories from fats density/caloric density that our evolved bodies are not equipped to regularly digest. Hard to find a relatively unprocessed natural food that is even close to the caloric density per mass of something like a potato chip/crisp. Extracted oils (either plant or animal origin) are around 4000 Calories/pound. And from my understanding, domesticated animals have a significantly different fats content as compared to wild game, increasing the net energy per equivalent serving. 

Wouldn't be worried about B12 on the scale of weeks even with zero supplementation or B12 fortified foods

@boom - sounds yum


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## tsuriru (Jul 19, 2017)

foody518 said:


> one take on the metabolic diseases (at the very least relative to excess weight gain and the risk factors to many diseases associated with that) I've run across relates the problems to modern foods and their calories from fats density/caloric density that our evolved bodies are not equipped to regularly digest. Hard to find a relatively unprocessed natural food that is even close to the caloric density per mass of something like a potato chip/crisp. Extracted oils (either plant or animal origin) are around 4000 Calories/pound. And from my understanding, domesticated animals have a significantly different fats content as compared to wild game, increasing the net energy per equivalent serving.




+1


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jul 19, 2017)

Well, a real crumb topping (even if not made with real butter - but going 2:1:1 with no tricks) probably comes close - but it's delicious on boozy fruit


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 19, 2017)

Nemo said:


> I pretty much only ever eat Basmati. Worth buying the good stuff you reckon?



I have been eating basmati rice exclusively for over 10 years, (Royal brand) .I'll never go back to anything different.

Basmati has one of the lowest GI index of 62.
jasmine rice has one of the highest GI index of 91.

for potatoes I forget the exact number but boiled red potatoes are the lowest GI index . A baked Russet potato is the highest


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## labor of love (Jul 19, 2017)

Shouldn't sweet potatoes be lowest on the index?


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## labor of love (Jul 19, 2017)

What's important isn't just the glycemic index but the ratio of the starch to everything else on the plate. It's important to have caloric sources other than straight carbs as this won't spike insulin levels as much and mess with Your health. For instance a baked potato on its own could have a very negative effect if that's the only item consumed yet in combination with steamed vegetables and grilled chicken would be much more sound. The thought here is to drown out the impact of high glycemic foods with other sources of calories and nutrients. Take this idea to whatever level of militancy you like.


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## foody518 (Jul 19, 2017)

+Fiber


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## tsuriru (Jul 20, 2017)

labor of love said:


> What's important isn't just the glycemic index but the ratio of the starch to everything else on the plate. It's important to have caloric sources other than straight carbs as this won't spike insulin levels as much and mess with Your health. For instance a baked potato on its own could have a very negative effect if that's the only item consumed yet in combination with steamed vegetables and grilled chicken would be much more sound. The thought here is to drown out the impact of high glycemic foods with other sources of calories and nutrients. Take this idea to whatever level of militancy you like.



So, if I take a shot of Jack Daniels and "water it down" with a bottle of wine I will get less drunk? :biggrin:


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## Nemo (Jul 20, 2017)

foody518 said:


> @Nemo, one take on the metabolic diseases (at the very least relative to excess weight gain and the risk factors to many diseases associated with that) I've run across relates the problems to modern foods and their calories from fats density/caloric density that our evolved bodies are not equipped to regularly digest. Hard to find a relatively unprocessed natural food that is even close to the caloric density per mass of something like a potato chip/crisp. Extracted oils (either plant or animal origin) are around 4000 Calories/pound. And from my understanding, domesticated animals have a significantly different fats content as compared to wild game, increasing the net energy per equivalent serving.



Yeah, this is a bit of a can of worms and getting a bit off topic so I'll try not go off on too much of a tangent.

I agree that the "energy density" theory and the closely related "too many calories" (conservation of energy) theory are widely assumed to be correct in Western dietetics and medicine. As with all theories to date, there are some things that it doesn't explain very well.

My point is that we only have a very basic understanding of how control of metabolism works at the hormonal, cellular and molecular level. Most of the theories to date about metabolic disorders have made big assumptions about how metabolism works. I don't think any one theory has yet been able to explain what is observed in metabolic disorders.

There does seem to be something about the modern Western diet that is associated with metabolic diseases. Processed foods and refined carbohydrates, especially fibre-free fructose-containing sugars appear particularly problematic.

The often-given advice "Eat real food, not too much and mostly plants" is probably reasonsble given what we do know. But we don't really know enough to be sure.


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## MontezumaBoy (Jul 20, 2017)

More importantly - do you have any nice Sujihiki's you want to sell?! Best O' luck with your new diet but please remember - Bon Vivant!




boomchakabowwow said:


> I want to see what it does to my cholesterol and blood pressure. I'm on the lightest dose of BP meds, and to be honest! It bums me out. I'm physical. I mtn bike regularly. My job as a construction eng is not sedentary at all. My cholesterol is always okay! But it is tapping at the upper end of the spectrum.
> 
> It sucks my doc just wants to medicate me. I figure it's up to me to try this.
> 
> ...


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## labor of love (Jul 20, 2017)

tsuriru said:


> So, if I take a shot of Jack Daniels and "water it down" with a bottle of wine I will get less drunk? :biggrin:



Well that would be the same as putting a pile of French fries on top of mashed potatoes. Probably not a good idea.


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## panda (Jul 20, 2017)

that's a brilliant idea, gonna do mash and frites with my steak next time.


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## labor of love (Jul 20, 2017)

No. French fry Poboy with au jus or gravy is the best carb on carb culinary invention I'm aware of!


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## MontezumaBoy (Jul 20, 2017)

labor of love said:


> French fry Poboy with au jus or gravy



Labor - now your talking!!!


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## panda (Jul 20, 2017)

im gonna do fried potato skin stuffed with mash and top it with both fries and chips and douse it in demi  maybe some tots as well for good measure


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## labor of love (Jul 20, 2017)

BLT w/kettle chips, chili dog stuffed with Fritos, French dip stuffed with Tator tots....


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## labor of love (Jul 20, 2017)

panda said:


> im gonna do fried potato skin stuffed with mash and top it with both fries and chips and douse it in demi  maybe some tots as well for good measure



That's a staff meal. &#128512;


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## boomchakabowwow (Jul 20, 2017)

thanks for the pep talk guys..


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## ecchef (Jul 21, 2017)

labor of love said:


> That's a staff meal. &#128512;



So true! &#128516;


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