# Coffee, Extraction, Beans



## Troy G (Apr 23, 2013)

So what are you using to get your favorite black gold.

I am using a Behmor Brazen at home and a Aeropress at work.

Mostly buy beans from Transcend, Social, and 49th Parallel here in Canada and have a small shop in Medicine Hat that has some beans I enjoy. 


If money was no object I would love to add a semi automatic espresso maker to my counter top


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## Eric (Apr 23, 2013)

I use a hottop and rancilio sylvie and rocky. Beans mostly from sweet marias so far. 

So far its been great, but I wouldnt mind it if the machine could roast more than 1/2 lb per batch. 

Check out the hottop website, they have didactics on roasting science that I found instructive.


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## Troy G (Apr 23, 2013)

I really would like to take the coffee to another level and start buying green beans and playing with roasting. Buying roasted beans from vendors makes it hard to keep fresh beans on hand. I am not ready to try some of the roasting methods Sweet Marias talk about such as stove top and using an air popper for popcorn.

When I bought my burr grinder I suspected I would not be able to make the jump to an espresso machine (financially) so I never worried about getting a burr grinder that would do a really good job for espresso. I am just using a Baratza Encore.

What beans are you really liking from Sweet Marias?


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## clayton (Apr 23, 2013)

Get the sampler from SM. A nice variety of beans.

To start roasting a stainless saute pan and camping gas cooker will do for a start. Results won't be half bad if you are careful and likely better than many roasted beans you buy.


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## Troy G (Apr 23, 2013)

Clayton neat pic.

Another reason I have avoided doing some home roasting is the assumption that it is very hard to reproduce results when using home roasting methods. And trying to maintain consistency and get a true flavor profile from the beans. Like many things it is a learning process I am sure, just like sharpening a knife.


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## clayton (Apr 23, 2013)

It is an easy way to get started and will cost you very little. Keep stirring and listening and it will likely turn out well. You will learn about cracks in the process and will likely feel very good about yourself. 

If you like peaty scotch try it over the camp fire sometime.


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## Troy G (Apr 23, 2013)

I am more of lighter roast type of person and I would be shooting for City or City+ depending on the bean. I do like a smokey profile in some of the darker roasts but it has to be in conjunction with other flavors and notes.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Apr 23, 2013)

I've been roasting for 6 years, have an extensive espresso and coffee set-up(s). Sounds like you have a good set-up, no need to change. If you do get a semi-auto, you need to pay closer attention to the grinder.


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## Troy G (Apr 23, 2013)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I've been roasting for 6 years, have an extensive espresso and coffee set-up(s). Sounds like you have a good set-up, no need to change. If you do get a semi-auto, you need to pay closer attention to the grinder.



Yeah, for pure espresso I figured my Baratza Encore would certainly be the weak link. Would the Rancilio Silvia v3 be the best introductory bang for the buck semi auto machine?


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## wenus2 (Apr 24, 2013)

How do you like that Brazen?
I'm have a technivorm for auto-drip, but truthfully I use my vac pot 85% of the time. I just enjoy the zen like process of making it.
Currently I've got a Baratza Vario for grinding drip and a Mazzer SJ for 'spro, eyeballing a Mahlkonig Guatemala upgrade for drip though. When I make ice drip I need to grind a whole bag at once, the Baratza doesn't like it and it takes forever.

I hadn't considered the Silvia a "bang-for-the-buck" machine since v3 had the big price bump (650), they are a solid machine but all that value talk was when they cost $400 then $500. They lost a lot of market share following that price bump, as such the v3 is actually gone down a little ($639 Most places, make sure shipping is included), while everything also has continued to climb. They are competitive again I think. Even still, I would rather give the Crossland CC1 a go at that price. Though, double boiler wins hands down if you can manage it.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Apr 24, 2013)

Troy G said:


> Yeah, for pure espresso I figured my Baratza Encore would certainly be the weak link. Would the Rancilio Silvia v3 be the best introductory bang for the buck semi auto machine?



Nothing wrong with the Silvia, it's been the gold standard intro semi for a long time. Personally, I would save up a little more for something more consistent and use your current set-up until then. There are some good machines in the $1K-$1.4K range that will produce good if not better results than a coffee shop with the right touch. Keep and eye out on Chris's coffee service and 1st Line for deals.


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## Troy G (Apr 24, 2013)

wenus2 said:


> How do you like that Brazen?



The Brazen makes great coffee. I like the control you have with the machine; saturation time, temperature, correct for altitude, manual water release, etc. I do have some very minor complaints. First, the lid will leak water droplets when the water gets up to temperature. I could fix this if it really bothered me. Second, I would like more graduations in the resevoir for making smaller batches. Third, some users complain about pulling out the filter basket and making a mess, I did it once but it was all my fault, I was being rammy and in a hurry. Third, users have complained about water left in the basket and or in the resevoir. I don't have that issue. Fourth, the amount of time it takes to make a full pot. I rarely make a full 8 cup pot but even the amount of time it takes to make 3-4 cups seems long when you need a fix. Brazen may want to release a bigger model as well; 8 cups may not be enough for a family of coffee drinkers. Not sure of the Brazen has been SCAA approved it that makes a big difference.


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## Troy G (Apr 24, 2013)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Nothing wrong with the Silvia, it's been the gold standard intro semi for a long time. Personally, I would save up a little more for something more consistent and use your current set-up until then. There are some good machines in the $1K-$1.4K range that will produce good if not better results than a coffee shop with the right touch. Keep and eye out on Chris's coffee service and 1st Line for deals.



Would a PIDed Silvia compete with some of the more expensive models you allude to as far as consistency is concerned? What machines specifically would you recommend? I am going to enjoy my current set-up for quite sometime. I just do not have the budget right now to pull the trigger on an Espresso machine but I do enjoy learning as much as I can from people who are willing to teach.


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## lowercasebill (Apr 24, 2013)

Troy G said:


> So what are you using to get your favorite black gold.
> 
> I am using a Behmor Brazen at home and a Aeropress at work.
> 
> ...



green beans from sweet marias , behmor roaster, bonavita brewer, bodum french press, melita cone filter, just bought [but dont have yet] a 'clever coffee dripper' melita style cone with paper filter that has a valve so you can let it steep a while before draining into cup, zassenhous manual grinder, miss silvia with rockey doserless grinder, bottomless portafilter with vst precision filter basket.. i wanted a dbl boiler unit but could not justify the price difference .. when i bought silvia and rocky the total was $800...... 
check out sweet marias for the reviews of the various roasters.. for a mcuh smaller investment than an espresso machine you could move up to the next level caffiene addiction by roasting your own .. good luck


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## compaddict (Apr 24, 2013)

Behmor 1600 roaster is a nice machine. I am in love with Kona and being a low grown I can roast 18oz at a time. One of the tricks with the 1600 is to pull the drum and get the beans cooling fast. Try The Grean Bean Buying Club for a good source of Kona. Good community as well.


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## wenus2 (Apr 24, 2013)

Troy G said:


> The Brazen makes great coffee. I like the control you have with the machine; saturation time, temperature, correct for altitude, manual water release, etc. I do have some very minor complaints. First, the lid will leak water droplets when the water gets up to temperature. I could fix this if it really bothered me. Second, I would like more graduations in the resevoir for making smaller batches. Third, some users complain about pulling out the filter basket and making a mess, I did it once but it was all my fault, I was being rammy and in a hurry. Third, users have complained about water left in the basket and or in the resevoir. I don't have that issue. Fourth, the amount of time it takes to make a full pot. I rarely make a full 8 cup pot but even the amount of time it takes to make 3-4 cups seems long when you need a fix. Brazen may want to release a bigger model as well; 8 cups may not be enough for a family of coffee drinkers. Not sure of the Brazen has been SCAA approved it that makes a big difference.


Thanks.

How long does a full pot take?


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## Troy G (Apr 24, 2013)

wenus2 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> How long does a full pot take?



Tomorrow morning I will time a pot from the point I hit the start button to the finish beep. I will give you my water temperature going in and the length of time it takes from there. I am at about 1800 ft above sea level. I would guess somewhere in the 11-12 minute mark and this is with a pre-soak of 1:30 and a brew temperature of 202 F.


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## wenus2 (Apr 24, 2013)

That would be awesome, thank you.
If you could try to capture the time of actual extraction (water flowing) that would be an added bonus.

Thanks Troy.


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## lowercasebill (Apr 24, 2013)

compaddict said:


> Behmor 1600 roaster is a nice machine. I am in love with Kona and being a low grown I can roast 18oz at a time. One of the tricks with the 1600 is to pull the drum and get the beans cooling fast. Try The Grean Bean Buying Club for a good source of Kona. Good community as well.



thanks for the tips... kona sounds a good way to further deplete my disposable income ...
and all the years i have had the behmor i never thought of taking the drum out .. :thumbsup2:


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## Troy G (Apr 25, 2013)

wenus2 said:


> That would be awesome, thank you.
> If you could try to capture the time of actual extraction (water flowing) that would be an added bonus.
> 
> Thanks Troy.



Here is what I came up with for numbers this morning. Water went in at 70F. It took 6:30 for the water to hit 202F. At about 5:50 the water was at 197 and you could here that the machine was backing the heat off to take it up to the set temp. I set the machine for 30 seconds of infusion because the beans were a little older. The coffee infused for 30 seconds but it took a little time before I could hear the coffee hitting the caraffe. It then took 5:29 to the finish beep to run through. I got a total time of 12:46 from start button to finish beep.

I am not sure if this time is longer than normal or not. It has been awhile since I descaled so I am going to do that tonight and see if the numbers improve. I would not expect a huge time difference though.


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## jgraeff (Apr 25, 2013)

to me Kona is overrated i have been buying the coffee we use as our house stuff to me its awesome, its Venezuelan and i add in a little of the dark roast stuff to, really good stuff.


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## Troy G (Apr 25, 2013)

The last Kona I had I did not enjoy either. I am enjoying Ethiopian coffees from regions that produce blueberry flavors and regions that are known for hints of citrus with chocolate. Some of the Costa Rica have too much citrus acidic taste for my liking but I am enjoying some right now. I usually enjoy most Kenyan beans as well.


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## wenus2 (Apr 25, 2013)

That's some nice detail Troy, thanks.

The extraction seems a little long at 5.5min. Does the coffee reflect this, or it not noticeable in practice? (sometimes numbers are just numbers)
Have you tried brewing a little cooler, say 197, to offset the long extraction a little?

I gotta respect your taste in coffee, throw in Guatemala and you have my favorite regions as well.


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## Troy G (Apr 25, 2013)

Yes Guetemala! I just finished some Finca El Socorro and enjoyed the butterscotch and sweetness. Also El Salvador, the Malacara.

It has been awhile since I played with the temp variable.


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## compaddict (Apr 25, 2013)

We have tried so many green beans and we always land on the Konas. On the other hand, out of the six different Konas we have tried.. Two have been heads/tails above the rest and the others were just better than most. 
http://www.roastmasters.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?
And Kona Earth, Estate Grade from GBBC
are the two that anyone that has had a cup says "that was damn good" every time.
YMMY!


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## MichaelCampbell (Apr 26, 2013)

compaddict said:


> Behmor 1600 roaster is a nice machine. I am in love with Kona and being a low grown I can roast 18oz at a time. One of the tricks with the 1600 is to pull the drum and get the beans cooling fast. Try The Grean Bean Buying Club for a good source of Kona. Good community as well.


Glad to know about this,I will try to purchase it ,is it good for commercial use too?I just want a review before purchasing it....


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## Duckfat (Apr 28, 2013)

IIR Jason did a review of the Behmor 1600 here. You might want to search for that coffee thread.

Dave


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (May 1, 2013)

Behmor is a great machine, especially for the beginner. At first it will roast up to 1 lb, but after 100+ uses the ability starts to diminish. I break the warranty (not like it matters at this point) and use the 1 lb mode for 1/2 lb so I can get the roast I want. When this machine breaks down, I will go for a Hot Top. I currently have about 200 lbs roasted in my current Behmor, my second one in 6 years. BTW, it is not for commercial use, unless using it for a sampler machine (in house, not customer).


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## Duckfat (May 1, 2013)

I've got to get one of those roasters.


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