# Need Bare Bones "Set" of Quality Knives



## CaptainDooley

My wife has been suffering (mostly) in silence for 16+ years with a set of Faberware "Professional" knives we got at our bridal shower/wedding reception. Occasionally she'll mention that one day she should learn more about knives so she can get her a better set of knives... So, I've been watching how she uses her knives and I want to get her a chef's knife, a paring knife, and a bread knife (really the only three I ever see her use). Below is the questionnaire with her observed behavior/preferences. In parentheses are how I use a knife when I find myself in the kitchen, if there's anything we need to consider where we differ, please let me know.

I typically use sweethome.com for reviews on things I don't know and don't want to put too much time into researching, but in this case, I wanted to ask the experts. In this case, sweethome.com recommends the Mac Knife Professional 8-Inch chef's knife (mth-80). Is there something better for the same price? ($145 on Amazon) Is there something better for under $200? (I'm assuming the answer is yes to both of those) 

What country are you in?
United States

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Three altogether:


Chefs knife
Paring knife
Bread knife

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle or Japanese handle?
Western (Me: I'd actually prefer Japanese because I think they look amazing, but Western it is because it's her knife)

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in?


8
3-4
10.25+

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?


$200
Unsure of a reasonable budget
Unsure of a reasonable budget

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for?


Jack-of-all-trades knife. Used for slicing, chopping, mincing veggies, slicing/trimming meats, poultry, etc.
Things paring knives are used for
Bread

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Farberware Professional set given to us when we were first married, 16 years ago.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
Wife: Hammer (Me: Pinch)


What cutting motions do you primarily use?
Wife: Rock/Walk and (Me: Push Cut)

What improvements do you want from your current knife? 
Smooth rock chopping, good food release, edge retention, good balance and sure grip

On a related note, my wife and I share a certain amount of practicality, thus aesthetics are not important. Good steel and good design that works well and will last are the key factors.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Yes

Do you sharpen your own knives?
Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?
N/A

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives?
No


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## foody518

Tojiro DP can be had for half the price of that MAC chefs knife
Also take a look at Gonbei AUS10

Check out the MAC Superior Bread Knife

If y'all don't currently use a paring knife for much, you could go pretty cheap here. Like <$10

How are you sharpening your current knives? Even those Farberware level knives can be made kinda sharp... They just can't hold the edge for any good length of time. Though, will have to admit, I don't have anything that's been used for 16 years


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## CaptainDooley

I'll check out both of those. 

As for sharpening, I started off using decent-ish sharpener ($40 maybe) years ago with 15° and 20° slots. I've since graduated to an actual whetstone set. As you said, they can be sharpened, but they don't hold it for long.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

For someone that truly likes to rock and walk and hammer grip, I'd be tempted to recommend a german profile... however, that leaves ... some Shun and Global models. Or Zwilling - which come with the problem they are either too soft (the classic ones) or way too hard (cermax) or way too wack (diplome - cool steel choice but can't get over the fake lamination line...). Or Herder, maybe...


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## CaptainDooley

She's pretty dyed in the wool on all three (Rock, walk, hammer)... From what I've read, I figured german profile would make more sense for her, but wasn't 100% sure. Thanks for the input.


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## pleue

Tojiro dp or victorinox would fit the bill I think


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## skewed

As others have recommended, Tojiro DP 210 gyuto, Tojiro DP 120 petty and the Tojiro ITK bread knife comes in at ~$160 total. Sharpened once every couple months, this set is better than what 99%+ of home cooks are use to.


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## CaptainDooley

Excellent. Thanks pleue and skewed. Thoughts on the Tojiro ITK vs the Mac Superior (foody's recommendation) bread knives?


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

Something like the DP could probably made to take that style (the japanese Gyuto shape is after all derived from old school french chef knives - these people seem to use a tip-resting-on-board technique too, but in a different fashion (http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=405) ...

The long-necked, faceted-wood-handled knives that this forum seems to like so much? Oh, they're blade heavy and sometimes asymmetric so you will either *instinctively* go for a pinch grip or hate them... steel tends to be chosen and treated in a way that they will take endless hammering to the board without getting pounded flat, but will break not bend if actually overloaded (which can happen if you walk with force, not noticing your edge is jammed in the board...) ... they might be for you, not likely for her...


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## labor of love

Tojiro also makes bread knives in 8.25 inch and 10.5 inch that are cheaper than mac's. I use them and like them a lot.


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## CaptainDooley

Question - I listed 8" as the chef's knife because that's what she has... What are the benefits to a 240mm+ knife versus the 210mm/8" variety?


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## valgard

It would allow you to do more stuff at the same time, but for most households you don't need to get a bigger knife. Most around here (include me) like bigger knives, we are used to those and feel comfortable with them so when we need the extra efficiency those cm come in handy.
There is also the issue of leverage and the angles you have to tilt the knife which change with the length. All in all I would say that if she is used to 8" you don't need to experiment.


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## Nemo

Then again, most Japanese knives arelighter than most Western knives so it's often easier to use a longer knife. It doesn't take long to get used to and even appreciate the longer blade. This is especially so if using a pinch grip and may actually encourage use of a pinch (which should give more control over the blade).

FWIW, I rarely use anything shorter than 240mm gyuto these days (and usually a 270). YMMV, especially as I am quite tall (which may or may not make a difference, I'm not sure).


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## daveb

I like, recommend and have bought the Suisin Western Inox when in a similar situation as yours. I've bought them for my mother, my sister and a couple of GFs that I thought might become my next ex-wife. 

210mm Gyuto http://korin.com/HSU-INGY-210?sc=27&category=280068
Paring http://korin.com/HSU-INPA-80?sc=27&category=280068

They offer a bread knife that I'm not familiar with. Looks good though Mac or Tojiro may better serve you.

Bread http://korin.com/Suisin-Inox-Bread-Knife_3?sc=27&category=280068

JKI also offers an inexpensive stainless steel line that I've bought as above, the 210 Gyuto is at
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ials/products/gesshin-210mm-stainless-gyutoan
.
Both the Suisin and Gesshin Stainless have a bit of a belly for those "graduating" from Euro knives. Both are readily sharpened. Both are a class up from the Tojiro in F/F, steel, performance, and feel.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

A knife that is longer than your usual cutting board will usually just feel awkward


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## stuplarosa

+1 on the Mac bread knife. Not too expensive and better than I ever expected.


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## CaptainDooley

Mac touts the knife as a bread/carving knife - does it work equally well at both?


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## GorillaGrunt

Yaxell Dragon for the chef knife?


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## Sillywizard

CaptainDooley said:


> Mac touts the knife as a bread/carving knife - does it work equally well at both?



Here is a youtube Linköping for the Tojiro ITK bread knife, but is equally relevant for the Mac bread knife as the Tojiro is a copy of the Mac:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dvNs4zB6zXg


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## stuplarosa

CaptainDooley said:


> Mac touts the knife as a bread/carving knife - does it work equally well at both?



I guess I'm used to non-serrated carving knives and wouldn't have thought of that. I guess it could carve in a pinch, but I'm more likely to reach for a long-thin-straight.


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## CaptainDooley

Thanks for all the help so far guys! I have one additional question (for now) - I've looked through the forum and haven't found anything - is there a newbie's guide to buying a cutting board? My wife said she wants a set of bamboo cutting boards, but my (very limited) understanding is that bamboo is not preferred, but I'm not even sure what to look in wood type, construction, etc. or why I would want any of that.


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## foody518

End grain hardwood (you can keep em looking new for ages with good treatment. Try to get at least 1.5-2 inch thickness to mitigate warping) if you can afford it, edge grain if not. Bamboo boards will use excessive glue in order to get enough fibers stuck together for a board
Go as big in dimensions as your space and budget allows, especially if you plan on having longer knives


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## ChefJimbo

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/26989-First-serious-cutting-board

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/30396-Cutting-Board-Questions

A little light reading for you. Depending on your tastes, counter space, quantity needed, you could go in several directions.

1 end grain 18" x 24" or two smaller. Stick with the 18" x 24" and get smaller poly/ hi-soft boards if you like to work at the same time................endless options.....Enjoy the trip down the rabbit hole :biggrin:


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## pleue

boos edge grain boards are economical. some endgrain boards run ~$100 for a good size one, scout around. put neither in the dishwasher.


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## CaptainDooley

Who is Boo and where do I find his wares?


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## daveb

Its Boos. No possessive. Good but not great. On the forum there is Boardsmith. That be great.


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## CaptainDooley

Copy on Boos. 

Saw Boardsmith. Looked amazing. Saw his prices. Laughed at the thought of my wife's reaction when I told her the cost. I'm sure they're worth the cost - great craftsmanship almost always is, but I don't think that'll fly.


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## Nemo

Borkwood isalso worth a look. They are in NC I think. Also a forum vendor IIRC.


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## Noodle Soup

CaptainDooley said:


> Thanks for all the help so far guys! I have one additional question (for now) - I've looked through the forum and haven't found anything - is there a newbie's guide to buying a cutting board? My wife said she wants a set of bamboo cutting boards, but my (very limited) understanding is that bamboo is not preferred, but I'm not even sure what to look in wood type, construction, etc. or why I would want any of that.



OK, I cook a lot of Asian, Thai, Chinese, Viet, Cambodian etc. All require a fair amount of chopping type work. Somewhere along the line I got the impression bamboo was the cool new, ultra efficient cutting board. WRONG! It doesn't hold up to hard use at all. And then there is the fact I have never seen a bamboo board in any Asian country. See my other posts about tamarind.


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## pleue

top chop butcher block boards look quite nice and economical.


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## foody518

pleue said:


> top chop butcher block boards look quite nice and economical.



I like mine. A good price on Cherry end grain, has the running brick layout


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## Marek07

@Noodle Soup's post on tamarind boards is here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/32427-2-Tsukasa-Hinoura-knives-in-stock

As a budget option, they are great end-grain boards. Actually, they're pretty good at any price range. Not the prettiest but definitely fit-for purpose. I guess utilitarian is an apt description. Available in Asian grocery stores everywhere.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

End grain tends to be considered the be-all, end-all here ...

Bamboo is hard on more delicate edges (use it with your workhorse gyuto, keep something like a original-edge takamura or single bevel knife far off it!), in a similar league with wood fibre composite boards (loud but dishwasher proof). One advantage: It isn't very prone to warping even if you neglect oiling it.

Cheap but usable everyday boards: These thick IKEA acacia slabs. Disadvantages: not end grain (still decently soft), warp prone, and I constantly shove aromatics into the hole with the bench scraper....

Really avoid: plastic boards with a very soft or textured surface, especially for rock chopping/walking. These pinch and bend your edge.

@Noodle soup these two inch thick circular blocks as seen in the movies, complete with a cleaver precariously sunk into it?


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## jbart65

The Gesshin and Suisin knives mentioned earlier fit the bill. So does Tanaka VG10. Tanakas can all rock well. I'd recommend the Tanaka ginsan but the 210mm is $180.

I've owned the Mac Pro and DP. I like the Mac better, but you can get more for your money. The Tanakas are a good example.

On a parer, Victorinox works great and costs $7. Want a nicer looking one? Step up to the Rosewood handled Vic parer for $20.

Best bread knife I have ever used is a Wusthof double serrated. Easily outperforms the Mac and DP even though its only 9 inches. Picked up at discount on the bay. If you cut bread a lot, get that. Otherwise the DP works great for the price.

For boards, the top Sweethome rec for wood is a good one. I got it for cheaper by looking at Warehouse deals.


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## Noodle Soup

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> End grain tends to be considered the be-all, end-all here ...
> 
> Bamboo is hard on more delicate edges (use it with your workhorse gyuto, keep something like a original-edge takamura or single bevel knife far off it!), in a similar league with wood fibre composite boards (loud but dishwasher proof). One advantage: It isn't very prone to warping even if you neglect oiling it.
> 
> Cheap but usable everyday boards: These thick IKEA acacia slabs. Disadvantages: not end grain (still decently soft), warp prone, and I constantly shove aromatics into the hole with the bench scraper....
> 
> Really avoid: plastic boards with a very soft or textured surface, especially for rock chopping/walking. These pinch and bend your edge.
> 
> @Noodle soup these two inch thick circular blocks as seen in the movies, complete with a cleaver precariously sunk into it?



Chopping on any block no matter what the wood is going to be hard on it. I was just looking at some of the dings in my own today and thinking it might be time to replace it. As for movies, their movies.


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