# Have I made a butter knife



## ForeverLearning (Mar 2, 2019)

So I'm trying to find information on blade geometry, I'm worried I have made a couple of paper weights.

I have made my first blades and they generally follow the same geometry





Edge 0.5mm,
10mm above the edge 1.25mm,
Mid way up blade 2.25mm,

Is this far too thick? Do I have to go and grind a hardened blade back at square one?

Thanks,
L.


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## HRC_64 (Mar 2, 2019)

choils shot beats using calipers...what does it look like?


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## Matus (Mar 2, 2019)

0.5 on edge is too thick indeed. Before first sharpening I go to about 0.1-0.15 mm. 10 mm behind the blade at 1.25 would be on workhorse side of things, but not super thick.


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## Dave Martell (Mar 2, 2019)

Sharpen the knife now and you'll see wide bevels which indicate how thick the blade is above the edge. You can then use the edge bevel as a guide to thin behind the edge some more. You're close, keep going, just go slow. 

PS - your profile design looks great.


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 3, 2019)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! 

Ok, I will sharpen it and see but from your views it sounds like I have to go back down in grits and remove some mass. 

Is this achievable through hand sanding or should I go to the 1x30? 

Thanks Dave the comments on the profile, just guess work.

HRC_64 I will get a pic uploaded shortly


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 3, 2019)




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## ForeverLearning (Mar 3, 2019)

Choil shot, I cannot get the camera in focus at all. Apologies.


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## HRC_64 (Mar 3, 2019)

OP there is a bunch of extra material on that blade for a gyuto...
IMHO, you could make a nice ryo-deba however with less removal.

(please don't take this in a negative way--its worth pointing out )


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## milkbaby (Mar 4, 2019)

You could thin down the low bevel a bit so it's not quite as thick at the edge before sharpening.

In comparison, check out the measurements for the Heiji gyuto here: 
https://japaneseknifereviews.wordpr...e-workhorse-knives-heiji-kochi-and-watanabee/

Some people really like the Heiji. I believe they are usually known for good food separation and food release? The tradeoff is probably a bit of cracking and wedging in taller harder foods.


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 4, 2019)

milkbaby said:


> You could thin down the low bevel a bit so it's not quite as thick at the edge before sharpening.
> 
> In comparison, check out the measurements for the Heiji gyuto here:
> https://japaneseknifereviews.wordpr...e-workhorse-knives-heiji-kochi-and-watanabee/



That article is perfect, I had simply searched "blade geometry" with no success, that article is super insightful. Thanks milkbaby!

For thinning the knives, I have a 1x30 with 60-120-220 belts, is it worth going there and thinning it or going by hand?


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 4, 2019)

-


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 4, 2019)

First thinning, #120 for 1 hour. 

Before (right) and after (left), I will clean up to the blade to #600/#800 once thinned and remove all these horrible scratches. 

Not going for mirror again. 

Is this progress enough? Based on this being 1 hour how much further to go? (Time is not an issue here, it's a present for my father so gotta be done)


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 4, 2019)

Further thinning at #120. Dimensions are as follows: Mid Knife:

- Edge: 0.2mm, 
- 10mm above edge: 1.5mm? (Vernier is awkward to measure with, that's thicker than prevoiusly though. 

Coil comparison: (before is left and right is after), what are people's opinions?


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## Dave Martell (Mar 4, 2019)

Try some test cuts before continuing.


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 5, 2019)

Sharpening it is this, if I hear the great words of Doug Marcaida in my head then I'll finish to 600/800 grit for a satin finish.


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## milkbaby (Mar 5, 2019)

Agree with Dave, try some testing and see how you like it. Also, not every knife has to cut the same. Some are lasers, some are workhorses, expectations should be different depending on what you design.


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 5, 2019)

Put an edge on,





It is a thick knife but can cut.

I made a sharpening jig, haven't made a fixture for my whetstone so sharpened with sandpaper to #4000.

Also, the jig was set at 16 degrees, tempted to raise the edge more, thoughts? 

I will thin more with #120, go through the grits and sharpen again.

I am concerned about finishing the blade now it's sharpened, any suggestions on how to avoid cuts?


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## milkbaby (Mar 5, 2019)

Do you feel it's too thick behind the edge and this is why you want to thin more? There is more resistance to initiating the cut in hard foods than you like?

You can lightly dull the edge and then be very careful when you're trying to redo the finish. But in my opinion don't bother with the finish until you're happy with the performance.


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 6, 2019)

Yes, when cutting through an onion there's so much mass you have to push through, I don't like it. 

It chops well because it is so sharp but could definitely be thinner.


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## Benuser (Mar 6, 2019)

If you use a jig think about easing the shoulders it created. Will considerably reduce friction.


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 8, 2019)

Benuser said:


> If you use a jig think about easing the shoulders it created. Will considerably reduce friction.



Could you explain that a bit more? I don't quite understand


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## stringer (Mar 8, 2019)

If you use a jig it will create a strong shinogi line. This is the shoulder that forms when you have a wide flat bevel. These shoulders increase drag. After you get where you want with the jig, round the shoulders off on the stones to improve performance.


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## Benuser (Mar 8, 2019)

Shoulder is where face and bevel meet. Very pronounced when jig system is being used. For best performance let the bevel form a continuous arc with the blade's face.


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## Benuser (Mar 8, 2019)

Very clear shoulders with an Richmond Artifex



No shoulder on the left side (right face), Misono yo-deba


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 8, 2019)

Benuser said:


> Very clear shoulders with an Richmond Artifex
> 
> 
> 
> No shoulder on the left side (right face), Misono yo-deba



The geometry of that deba makes me feel a lot better, it appears to be very thick


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## Benuser (Mar 8, 2019)

ForeverLearning said:


> The geometry of that deba makes me feel a lot better, it appears to be very thick


That's exactly how it is meant. Nuts, chocolate, colleagues.


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 10, 2019)

Finished like this, sharp as a razor. All done.


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## milkbaby (Mar 10, 2019)

Looks nice! Now you gotta use the heck out of it, figure out what you like and don't like, then adjust for those things on your next one.


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## ForeverLearning (Mar 11, 2019)

milkbaby said:


> Looks nice! Now you gotta use the heck out of it, figure out what you like and don't like, then adjust for those things on your next one.


Unfortunately it is out of my hands now. 

I am going to make another from 2mm O1, with a olivewood and ebony wa handle. Aiming to improve on all the mistakes made


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