# Chicken Stock Issues



## stevenStefano (Jan 28, 2018)

For most things I make involving chicken, I use the pressure cooker to make a stock and cook the chicken. So generally I put a whole chicken in the pressure cooker for about an hour with some vegetables. I then take the meat off the bones and use the stock to make a sauce of some description. However I've generally been very unimpressed by the flavour of the stock, it's very bland and lacks much chicken taste. I tried it with chicken wings and it was much the same

Does anyone have any ideas? Am I cooking it too long, would I be better omitting the vegetables? Should I try different parts of the chicken?


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## brooksie967 (Jan 28, 2018)

have you tried roasting the carcass to brown the bones?


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## dwalker (Jan 28, 2018)

I let mine go another 24 hours simmer after pulling the meat ( I don't use a pressure cooker). It reduces by about 1/3 and the result is a very flavorful bone broth.


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## chefcomesback (Jan 28, 2018)

Avoid pressure cooker , for any stocks you want them simmering rather than full on boiling which makes them cloudy and taste not so clean .
Few hours is plenty long enough to extract all the flavour and turn collagen into gelatin


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## Wdestate (Jan 28, 2018)

Mert is right, but you can also achieve the same results in the pressure cooker without emulsifying the stock. but there are some basic techniques to use the pressure cooker and achieve the results you want. A. you have to make sure not to boil the contents in the pressure cooker B.You also do not want to vent it at the end of the process this both causes a rapid decrease in pressure lowering the boiling point of the water causing it to instantly boil and emulsify and will drive chemical reactions to create unpleasent flavors.. Also venting will loose volatile flavors. 

"when done correctly a pressure cooker can yield stock that is nearly as clear as consomme. Solids sink to the bottom, a layer of oil rises to the top, and a thin layer of buoyant particles remains just below the oil" - this is sited from Modernist Cuisine Volume2-pg295.

A scaling they use for theirs is 100% water, 75%ground chicken, 40% wings. 8% fat (if going for brown stock)

That being said, i also just simmer 95% of the time 3hrs top on my chicken i use wings/feet/trim which gives a heavy gelatin filled stock. If you are winding up with a lack luster result just fortify it at the end the way you want, or reduce to intensify. Dont use to much water, a lot of people think a little chicken/veg will intensely flavor a lot of water...it wont..


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## Matus (Jan 28, 2018)

I but bio roosters (always 2 as they do not have much meat) and cook them very slowly for about 8 hours. The result is a great strongly flavored stock. I reduce it and freeze in small quantities for sauces.

I am yet to try to roasting the carcasses. But a quality of the chicken (basically what it was fed with also with what not) makes a huge difference.


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## HRC_64 (Jan 28, 2018)

dwalker said:


> I let mine go another 24 hours simmer after pulling the meat ( I don't use a pressure cooker). It reduces by about 1/3 and the result is a very flavorful bone broth.



+1 on the longer times...
whole birds and 8-12 hours simmer time

higher food cost but a better end result
if quality of stock is paramount


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## panda (Jan 28, 2018)

Take meat off the bones. Rinse thoroughly. Let dry in fridge 2 hours. Roast on 400deg 35mins. Put in a pot with water about an inch above. Bring to a light boil and immediately reduce heat to a simmer. Skim all the foamy stuff, add roasted veggies after an hour. Simmer 4 hours then strain. You can poach the meat in the finished stock while it's cooling down (cut into uniform chunks first)

I like to add bay leaf parsley stems rosemary coriander seeds white peppercorns.


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## cheflivengood (Jan 28, 2018)

whats your water to product ratio? if you want a stock with very high flavor, you should use barley enough water to cover the product. using a whole chicken makes it very hard to cover the chicken without using too much water, thats why you should also cut the chicken up into its parts so it takes up less space.


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## JDA_NC (Jan 28, 2018)

I always find it interesting that in cooking we generally have DO's & DONT's written in stone - depending on our background - and you'll often find other cultures & cuisines who have exact opposite procedures.

Chicken stock is one for me. Don't boil your stock - it'll be cloudy. It should be clear. Don't leave the bones in too long - it'll be bitter. It should be a "clean" taste.

For me, I prefer to make a toripaitan (thick, creamy/cloudy chicken ramen broth) stock. I like using it for noodles, hot pots, soups etc. It's more of what I enjoy/am looking for at home than a classic western chicken stock.

You can find a lot of different recipes online. There are differences in length of time you'll cook the bones, whether you add veg or not etc.

I personally tend to put a whole chicken or two, a couple pounds of chicken feet, and sometimes some pig's feet too if I'm feeling frisky. Soak all the meat for a little, drain, put in a pot & bring up to a boil, dump the stock, rinse everything, and put it back on the stove. I'll generally leave the stock on the stove for around two days - boiling it when we're at home and letting it simmer overnight/when we're gone. Adding water to it regularly to keep the bones covered. I don't add any veg myself.


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## StonedEdge (Jan 28, 2018)

Personally I use the bones from as many birds as can fit in my crock pot or regular pot, roast them first, barely enough water to cover it all, add something acidic like tomato paste or vinegar to help everything along, let her go for 48hrs on the lowest possible setting capable of giving me an very very gentle slow simmer. Skim the crud once in a while that rises to the top. End result is a broth/stock with intense flavor that gels when cooled to room temperature.


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## ian (Jan 28, 2018)

As others have essentially said, its impossible to make a good stock and tasty meat simultaneously. (I'm assuming that's what you were trying to do.) You only get a good stock if you extract the flavor from the meat, which leaves the meat dry, stringy and flavorless. 

I might push back against the long cooking times suggested here. I've found that overnight cooking adversely affects the flavor of chicken broth that I make: it tends to have a `metallic' taste. (Not sure if that's the right adjective.) I think you can get all the flavor release and collagen breakdown you need in 5 hrs max, maybe less. You can also accelerate the flavor release by cutting the carcass into small pieces before roasting and brothing/stocking.

FWIW, here's my usual method of dealing with a whole chicken that I don't want to roast whole. Cut into pieces, reserve the breasts/legs. (If I'm not planning to use the skin or bones from the breasts/legs, I'll also take them out and add them to the pieces that will become the stock.) Take all the nonreserved pieces, cut them up with shears into 2 inch pieces, dry and coat with oil, roast/broil them hot till deep brown, caramelize some aromatics in a dutch oven, add the roasted chicken pieces, cover with water, heat to a simmer, skim off the crud for 15 min or so, transfer to oven at around 275-300F or so partially covered for 4-5 hours depending on my schedule, dump through a chinoise, degrease, pour through cheesecloth, and be done with it. 

If you want the breast/leg meat poached as well, do it in the finished broth. (Or at the beginning and take it out when it's done, if that suits your schedule better.) And yea, if you run out of time for some reason and the collagen doesn't get broken down sufficiently, just add some gelatin at the end and noone will ever know the difference. I find 5 hrs is plenty, though.


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## boomchakabowwow (Jan 28, 2018)

I keep chicken parts and freeze them. Whatever chicken parts. When I have enough carcasses, and some time; its time to make a stock. Parts are wing tips to rotesserire chicken carcasses. I typically dont do veggies. 

The broth is super rich. But it does taste a bit bland because it is salt-less. I freeze it in quart bags.


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## HRC_64 (Jan 28, 2018)

what size pots are you guys using


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## GorillaGrunt (Jan 29, 2018)

ianbiringer said:


> As others have essentially said, its impossible to make a good stock and tasty meat simultaneously. (I'm assuming that's what you were trying to do.) You only get a good stock if you extract the flavor from the meat, which leaves the meat dry, stringy and flavorless.



This has been my experience as well, so I pretty much do exactly this:



boomchakabowwow said:


> I keep chicken parts and freeze them. Whatever chicken parts. When I have enough carcasses, and some time; its time to make a stock. Parts are wing tips to rotesserire chicken carcasses. I typically dont do veggies.
> 
> The broth is super rich. But it does taste a bit bland because it is salt-less. I freeze it in quart bags.



Except I add veggies and spices/herbs (no salt though - salt goes in when I make the actual dish, soup or otherwise).

Never had good results in a slow cooker as compared to the stove. For the pressure cooker I use less veg and do 2 hours under pressure followed by a natural rather than manual release to prevent boiling; never had turbidity or bad flavor issues. Note that this is almost as long as it takes to do it on the stove; I find that the pressure cooker saves much more time with beef stock.


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## nutmeg (Jan 29, 2018)

Chicken stock in pressure cooker are the best.

Roast the bones, meat and vegetables first.
Most important vegetable are leak, mushrooms, morel, tomato, garlic.
Fino Sherry or white wine.
Thyme, pepper.

Let 4 hours cook at 1bar/15psi and then let cool and sieve.
Season with lemon juice.

Don't forget to use salt if you are not reducing the stock .


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 29, 2018)

Great thread. Just goes to show how many different ways there are at making stock. I think Nutmeg wins for originality.

Wildboard recipe comes closes to may technique. If I have the time, I'd let it roll slowly on the induction hob all day. I use a pressure cooker several times a week but I've not been about to get clear bone broth from it. 

I'm a big fan of chicken feet too. 

One thing is for sure, its must to either roast or blanch (wash pot) before simmering. To be honest, I don't even skim anymore, just let it cool completely and remove fat cap.

Has Damage chimed in on this subject. 

My secret, After simmering for a few hours, let the pot and bones cool naturally. next day, back on simmer, add your veg simmer for an hour and strain. The slow residual time the the bones are in the water cooling, really pulls out the flavor.


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## DamageInc (Jan 29, 2018)

I've tried so many different ways of making chicken stock I can't even remember half of them. What I can remember is my preferred way of doing them, which is pretty basic.

Save raw bones and scraps and carcasses until I have maybe 4 chickens' worth, preferably with a lot of cartilage, feet, knuckles, etc. I space all that out in a large roasting pan with some roughly chopped onion, carrot, celery, leek if I have it, and garlic. Roast until edges begin to slightly blacken and all the rest is very brown. Transfer into a large stock pot along with a tablespoon of ketchup (sue me, it's better than tomato concentrate for stock) and a bundle of fresh herbs including parsley, bay leaf, thyme, oregano, but no rosemary. I deglaze the roasting tray with some Noilly Prat over a flame and I add that. And a few whole peppercorns.

Then I cover with water and bring to a slight boil, skim scum, then turn down the heat to a very gentle super slow simmer for 1.5-3 hours, never longer. I feel that going longer will not bring any more flavor out of the vegetables and the bones, and then the fresh herbs will go dead and not taste very well. Not true for beef and veal bones though, which I do let go for 12 hours usually. Then I strain after letting it come to room temp and chill. I pick off the fat when it has hardened in fridge and after that I reduce until I think it tastes good.

I never freeze it, I just start using it right away. Risotto made with nice carnaroli rice and homemade stock is just brilliant. I've started mixing in bone marrow at the end instead of butter and I'm addicted now.

Not a huge fan of pressure cooking stock.


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## boomchakabowwow (Jan 29, 2018)

one year. i dispatched my entire flock of laying hens. they were very old, and were living with two years after they quit laying. i went mediaval with my AXE. (Gransfor Bruks Small forest in case you're interested. )

i took a giant restaurant stock pot i poached when my parent retired,that i typically use as a turkey fryer..set it on an outside burner and slow boiled the entire flock. i had to wrestle with the burner to get it to a low point where the broth would just ever so slowly let up a heat "BLURP. i had six carcasses in there, that i chopped up to make fit. about four hours in..my neighbors started showing up.."what is that SMELL??!!" i had gone nose blind. but what they described was the best broth they have ever smelled..( i did throw a couple of onions in) they all wanted some. errr..no. until i realized i had no freezer space. my neighbor across the street graciously removed some water bottles from his freezer, in which i used one to help cool the stock by floating it in there..a few bags of ice cooled it..as well. (all my smaller pots in an ice chest filled with ice.)

that neighbor helped me ladel out quart bags and lay them flat in his freezer. damn.that stuff was like jello in the fridge. it was awesome soup stock. my wonton soup for the year was epic. i gave that neighbor a bunch!!


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## StonedEdge (Jan 29, 2018)

Yup...that's how you're supposed to do it, old school.


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## ian (Jan 29, 2018)

Recipes.com new listing: Boomchakabowwow's Famous Stock (Active cooking time: 100 hrs. Inactive time: 5 years.)

1) Raise chickens. 
2) Let them stop laying eggs. 
3) Wait two years.
4) Kill chickens, if not already dead.
5) Put in pot. Add water to cover.
6) Simmer.


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## StonedEdge (Jan 29, 2018)

Hahahahahaha seriously good post


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## boomchakabowwow (Jan 29, 2018)

ianbiringer said:


> Recipes.com new listing: Boomchakabowwow's Famous Stock (Active cooking time: 100 hrs. Inactive time: 5 years.)
> 
> 1) Raise chickens.
> 2) Let them stop laying eggs.
> ...



actually, i forgot mention steps 2A and 2B using your numbers.
2A. decide to let them live out lives in luxury..find out they live 12years!!
2B. try to find an adoption home..haha.


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## StonedEdge (Jan 29, 2018)

Man that sounds like me if I had a coop (let alone a yard)


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## krx927 (Jan 31, 2018)

boomchakabowwow said:


> one year. i dispatched my entire flock of laying hens. they were very old, and were living with two years after they quit laying. i went mediaval with my AXE. (Gransfor Bruks Small forest in case you're interested. )
> 
> i took a giant restaurant stock pot i poached when my parent retired,that i typically use as a turkey fryer..set it on an outside burner and slow boiled the entire flock. i had to wrestle with the burner to get it to a low point where the broth would just ever so slowly let up a heat "BLURP. i had six carcasses in there, that i chopped up to make fit. about four hours in..my neighbors started showing up.."what is that SMELL??!!" i had gone nose blind. but what they described was the best broth they have ever smelled..( i did throw a couple of onions in) they all wanted some. errr..no. until i realized i had no freezer space. my neighbor across the street graciously removed some water bottles from his freezer, in which i used one to help cool the stock by floating it in there..a few bags of ice cooled it..as well. (all my smaller pots in an ice chest filled with ice.)
> 
> that neighbor helped me ladel out quart bags and lay them flat in his freezer. damn.that stuff was like jello in the fridge. it was awesome soup stock. my wonton soup for the year was epic. i gave that neighbor a bunch!!




Nice story! And surely the best possible meat to cook chicken broth or stock. 
In my country we are crazy about broths. Usually we cook it with beef. But last year I got hold of some old domestic hen and the broth that I made was out of this world. I do not use beef any more 

But like Matus wrote it really comes down on the quality if the meat.

My method: I cook it whole bird cut in pieces. As I primarily want to use it as a broth I do not roast meat and veggies. I put meat in cold water and bring it to the boil very very slowly. This ensures that most flavor will go into the broth as old hen will not be eaten. After it starts boiling I skim the scum and add veggie: onions, celery, carrot, suede and garlic + bay leaves and pepper corn.
I let it cook for 3/4h and it is amazing!

I always have a freezer full of this stuff. In big and small packages.


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