# Sakai Kikumori Gokujyo By Yoshikazu Tanaka



## Slimcity_13 (Apr 22, 2022)

RealSharpKnife.com Japanese knives and Natural stones


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Interested in possibly purchasing this knife to check off the Y. Tanaka box. Does anyone have any insight or experience with it? Description states the grind is not thick or thin so I'm wondering if there is any flex. I like the 270 since I know the edge on these knives run shorter. Any Idea who sharpens this line of knives? Want to make sure its worth the price tag. Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.


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## zizirex (Apr 22, 2022)

No idea, Tanaka White 2 is good, but not super hard. some Sanjo HT is much harder than his HT for White 2.


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## Delat (Apr 25, 2022)

If you’re just looking for a cheap Y Tanaka then Miura Itadaki is a good value
Japanese Chef Gyuto Knife - MIURA - Itadaki Series - Sizes: 21 / 24cm

However, personally I think the sharpener makes all the difference and would recommend you try one sharpened by Yohei or Kyuzo. I always forget who those two are, but I think Myojin and Takada or maybe Yauchi?

My experience with the Miura Itadaki in White 2 was that it was a decent midweight, not very good edge retention, sharpened very easily, decent fit and finish. Solid value for <$300 if you’re ok touching up on the strop before each use.


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## zizirex (Apr 25, 2022)

Yeahm i dont knw why. my mazaki and hinoura have better edge retention than my Tanaka. all of them are are white 2


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## Pie (Apr 25, 2022)

Delat said:


> If you’re just looking for a cheap Y Tanaka then Miura Itadaki is a good value
> Japanese Chef Gyuto Knife - MIURA - Itadaki Series - Sizes: 21 / 24cm
> 
> However, personally I think the sharpener makes all the difference and would recommend you try one sharpened by Yohei or Kyuzo. I always forget who those two are, but I think Myojin and Takada or maybe Yauchi?
> ...



I do agree with this for smiths that forge for multiple distributors/brands. Y Tanaka is on the list, but there’s so many to choose from. Myojin seems the be the flavour of the month (year?), and I gotta say I can see why. I like how his convexes turn out. 

I’ve handled a Sakai kikumori tanaka before (not the gokujyou) and f&f is great, grind looks thin, maybe a little thinner at the spine and lighter than I like. Can’t say much more than that. It was pretty, at the very least. 

I’d almost pick your sharpener and narrow it down that way.


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## Cliff (Apr 25, 2022)

I don't know who the sharpener is for that line, but I would buy with confidence. I think they use outstanding craftsmen. 

I have been using my JNS Blue no. 1 version as a daily driver for awhile now and cannot say enough good things about it. I had thought it would be more laser-ish than it is. It's on the slim side of medium, to my mind, just a bit more robust than Fujiyama or, I suspect, Takada, but hardly a heavyweight by any stretch.


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## Slimcity_13 (Apr 25, 2022)

Pie said:


> I do agree with this for smiths that forge for multiple distributors/brands. Y Tanaka is on the list, but there’s so many to choose from. Myojin seems the be the flavour of the month (year?), and I gotta say I can see why. I like how his convexes turn out.
> 
> I’ve handled a Sakai kikumori tanaka before (not the gokujyou) and f&f is great, grind looks thin, maybe a little thinner at the spine and lighter than I like. Can’t say much more than that. It was pretty, at the very least.
> 
> I’d almost pick your sharpener and narrow it down that way.



Thank you for the input. I have heard a lot about Myojin during my search and I am definitely interested. As far I know he works with Tanaka on the Fujiyama FM and well as the Tetsujin line of knives. Any others you know of that he sharpens for? Fujiyama FM seem to be pretty hard to get a hold of these days, not sure about Tesujin.


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## Slimcity_13 (Apr 25, 2022)

Cliff said:


> I don't know who the sharpener is for that line, but I would buy with confidence. I think they use outstanding craftsmen.
> 
> I have been using my JNS Blue no. 1 version as a daily driver for awhile now and cannot say enough good things about it. I had thought it would be more laser-ish than it is. It's on the slim side of medium, to my mind, just a bit more robust than Fujiyama or, I suspect, Takada, but hardly a heavyweight by any stretch.



Yes would be nice to know - I read someone throw out Ajioka-san as the sharpener for the gokujyo but I think it was a guess. I reached out to the retailer but have not received a response. I’m happy to hear it’s not on the laser end. I currently own a Mazaki 240 which I love but wanted to see what a longer thinner knife was like (but not too thin).


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## Pie (Apr 25, 2022)

Slimcity_13 said:


> Thank you for the input. I have heard a lot about Myojin during my search and I am definitely interested. As far I know he works with Tanaka on the Fujiyama FM and well as the Tetsujin line of knives. Any others you know of that he sharpens for? Fujiyama FM seem to be pretty hard to get a hold of these days, not sure about Tesujin.


FM may pop up on BST on occasion, I think he collaborates with nakagawa on some excessively beautiful knives. Cooks edge, I believe. I think he sharpens metal flow gyuto as well. I have an MM sharpened by him (full convex heel, transition to almost flat grind), and while the laser feel through hard produce wins this one a spot on the rack, I prefer wide bevel for a daily use workhorse for food release purposes. Plenty of heft to the MM for how it cuts tho. 

Aaaand oddly enough, that workhorse is my mazaki 240 . I feel you on the need for something thinner, mine started chunky and refuses all weight loss plans. Cracking apples and big carrots happens with the maz, and I loooove myojin’s grind vs big dense product.


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## Cliff (Apr 25, 2022)

Pie said:


> Aaaand oddly enough, that workhorse is my mazaki 240 . I feel you on the need for something thinner, mine started chunky and refuses all weight loss plans. Cracking apples and big carrots happens with the maz, and I loooove myojin’s grind vs big dense product.



That describes my Maz 270. I've put it through several rounds of thinning. Still needs more.



Slimcity_13 said:


> [...] I’m happy to hear it’s not on the laser end. I currently own a Mazaki 240 which I love but wanted to see what a longer thinner knife was like (but not too thin).



To be clear, I was referring to the JNS Tanaka. I have not tried the Kikumori. Myojin has started releasing knives under his own name as well. There seem to be a bunch around right now. Check out KnS and ToGo


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## Pie (Apr 26, 2022)

Cliff said:


> That describes my Maz 270. I've put it through several rounds of thinning. Still needs more.


I found it’s quite fat between the edge and the clad line. I’m hesitant to remove more because I like the indestructability stat.

Back on topic.. but kind of not, as it’s almost turned into a myojin search 








Tetsujin Hamono


Kiritsuke: In a traditional Japanese kitchen, the kiritsuke is a single beveled knife reserved only for the head chef to use. Now it has become a popular 50/50 beveled all purpose knife that can replace the gyuto. Slice meat, chiffonade herbs, chop veg, this knife is a bad-ass alternative to the...




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I like this for a collectors piece but would be sad if I had to redo the finish on bench stones.


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## Slimcity_13 (Apr 26, 2022)

Pie said:


> FM may pop up on BST on occasion, I think he collaborates with nakagawa on some excessively beautiful knives. Cooks edge, I believe. I think he sharpens metal flow gyuto as well. I have an MM sharpened by him (full convex heel, transition to almost flat grind), and while the laser feel through hard produce wins this one a spot on the rack, I prefer wide bevel for a daily use workhorse for food release purposes. Plenty of heft to the MM for how it cuts tho.
> 
> Aaaand oddly enough, that workhorse is my mazaki 240 . I feel you on the need for something thinner, mine started chunky and refuses all weight loss plans. Cracking apples and big carrots happens with the maz, and I loooove myojin’s grind vs big dense product.



Just took a look those Nakagawa + Myojin are excessively beautiful indeed. Also excuse my ignorance but what is an MM ? Yes the Mazakis are thick but feel great in hand. I'm not confident enough to thin it yet so it will stay overweight for a while haha.


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## Pie (Apr 26, 2022)

Slimcity_13 said:


> Just took a look those Nakagawa + Myojin are excessively beautiful indeed. Also excuse my ignorance but what is an MM ? Yes the Mazakis are thick but feel great in hand. I'm not confident enough to thin it yet so it will stay overweight for a while haha.


Oh yes, I’d rather not use something that looks that nice.. also a little steep in terms of price.

I present to you, the Konosuke MM. Forged by a left handed female smith, Blue #2, produced for a few years circa 2016(?). Pretty non-descript (visually), thin ground middleweight. Great review vs takada kicking around recently.

The mazaki was actually the driving force for me to buy the MM. They pair well and excel at tasks the other one struggles with.


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## shinyunggyun (Apr 26, 2022)

Pie said:


> Oh yes, I’d rather not use something that looks that nice.. also a little steep in terms of price.
> 
> I present to you, the Konosuke MM. Forged by a left handed female smith, Blue #2, produced for a few years circa 2016(?). Pretty non-descript (visually), thin ground middleweight. Great review vs takada kicking around recently.
> 
> The mazaki was actually the driving force for me to buy the MM. They pair well and excel at tasks the other one struggles with.


The nakagawa x myojin is one of those rare suminagashi blades that looks great even after excessive patina formation.


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## Slimcity_13 (Apr 26, 2022)

Pie said:


> Oh yes, I’d rather not use something that looks that nice.. also a little steep in terms of price.
> 
> I present to you, the Konosuke MM. Forged by a left handed female smith, Blue #2, produced for a few years circa 2016(?). Pretty non-descript (visually), thin ground middleweight. Great review vs takada kicking around recently.
> 
> The mazaki was actually the driving force for me to buy the MM. They pair well and excel at tasks the other one struggles with.



Sir, you have sent me further down the fine knife black hole. The Konosuke MM’s sound like an amazing performer with the lore to boot. Seems like they are no longer being made and I’m guessing near impossible to find used.


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## superworrier (Apr 27, 2022)

zizirex said:


> No idea, Tanaka White 2 is good, but not super hard. some Sanjo HT is much harder than his HT for White 2.


Yeah I prefer Maz and Yoshi white2


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## superworrier (Apr 27, 2022)

The way people describe the MM sounds just like my Tetsujin, which is my #1


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## heldentenor (Apr 27, 2022)

Strata just knocked fifty bucks off the 270 Gokujyo gyuto: 









Sakai Kikumori - Gokujyo - White #2 - 270mm Gyuto - Ho Wood Handle


Brand: Sakai Kikumori 堺菊守 Line: Gokujyo 極上 Profile: GyutoEdge Steel: White #2Steel Type: CarbonCladding: Soft IronBevel: DoubleBevel Symmetry: 50/50Hand Orientation: AmbidextriousHandle: Ho Wood WaTotal Length: 413mmEdge Length: 268mmSpine Length: 274mmBlade Height: 53mmThickness at Spine...




strataportland.com





Someone buy it before I have to.


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## M1k3 (Apr 27, 2022)

superworrier said:


> The way people describe the MM sounds just like my Tetsujin, which is my #1


Isn't Myojin one of the M's in MM?


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## big D (Apr 27, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Isn't Myojin one of the M's in MM?


As far as I can recall, these were the first and last name initials of a female sharpener, which took leave to raise an infant.

Edited to add: Though I really think it was the sharpener, perhaps it was the forger? I just read somewhere recently that a female with the initials MM was doing forging.


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## M1k3 (Apr 27, 2022)

big D said:


> As far as I can recall, these were the first and last name initials of a female sharpener, which took leave to raise an infant.
> 
> Edited to add: Though I really think it was the sharpener, perhaps it was the forger? I just read somewhere recently that a female with the initials MM was doing forging.


Mori (I believe) and Myojin, MM


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## Pie (Apr 27, 2022)

Slimcity_13 said:


> Sir, you have sent me further down the fine knife black hole. The Konosuke MM’s sound like an amazing performer with the lore to boot. Seems like they are no longer being made and I’m guessing near impossible to find used.


These sorts of things are fun, especially when they’re not $3,000 unicorns. MM’s can be had at the odd times on BST for ~$500, there’s a following but not like some other kono. 

Imo the lore is definitely part of the fun - most knives mentioned around here cut great, there’s gotta be some other sentimental/subjective value that draws me in. 

The more I think of the kikumori gokujyou the more it seems like a reasonably priced y tanaka option. I couldn’t find anything I didn’t like with the regular version at first glance.


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## Cliff (Apr 27, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Mori (I believe) and Myojin, MM



This is correct. Myojin sharpened the MM and Mori forged them. I got one of the early ones and love it as an all around knife. It looks quite similar in terms of HRC, weight, and general specs with the new Tetsujin


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## big D (Apr 27, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Mori (I believe) and Myojin, MM


I was mistaken... MB was the lady which left. Different Kono.


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## esoo (Apr 27, 2022)

big D said:


> I was mistaken... MB was the lady which left. Different Kono.



MMs were Ms Mizuki Mori (forger) and Myojin Nahito (sharpener). The Kono MB is was done by Mitsumi Hinoura.


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## esoo (Apr 27, 2022)

Slimcity_13 said:


> Sir, you have sent me further down the fine knife black hole. The Konosuke MM’s sound like an amazing performer with the lore to boot. Seems like they are no longer being made and I’m guessing near impossible to find used.



There is a brand new MM 210 in Blue 2 at foodgear.dk as I type this. No idea if they ship outside EU, if VAT is in the price etc.


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## mrmoves92 (Apr 29, 2022)

I just ordered a Sakai Kikumori Gokujyo 270mm gyuto from Dustin at Real Sharp Knife. I’ll try to remember to leave my thoughts about it after I have used it a little.


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## mrmoves92 (May 5, 2022)

The knife arrived today! Dustin at RSK was great to deal with, and I definitely recommend ordering from him. Overall, the knife seems really nice, but I have some very minor complaints. I’ll describe some of my complaints and general stuff about the knife.

The kasumi finish is a bit coarse/scratchy looking, and the core steel is reflective but not as mirror-like as you might get with a Wakui or Mutsumi Hinoura knife, but the knife still looks really nice to me.

The ferrule of the handle looks like pakka wood instead of buffalo horn, like the description said, but it doesn’t bother me, and I could be wrong.

I wish that the tip got thinner. I may address this if I decide to thin and refinish the knife, but I will use this knife a lot more before deciding whether or not to do that.

The choil is really nicely rounded, but the spine could use a little more rounding, but it is not sharp or bad at all. I’ll use the knife more and see if it actually bothers me.

I have only cut up an apple with it so far. I will use the knife more and report back. The knife has a substantial feel to it while still being pretty light for its length. The balance point is somewhat far forward (at least compared to what I am used to). The choil shot looks a bit thicker than the one on the RSK website, but it is still thin. The knife cut really well and smoothly. I really liked the profile. When slicing the apple, the slices mostly stuck to the blade instead of releasing like they would have done with my Kikuchiyo Yohei ginsan gyuto. I also noticed that the knife is pretty not reactive so far. During and after cutting the apple, there wasn’t any iron or carbon steel smell from the knife, the apple slices didn’t have an iron flavor, and there wasn’t any noticeable patina on the knife. Even my carbon steel knives with stainless cladding and a good patina on the core smell a little bit during or after cutting apples. I asked Dustin if the knives have a lacquer coating, and he didn’t think so. He thought that the lack of reactivity was from the cloudy finish. I have attached a screenshot of the messages.

I asked Dustin for the tallest one that he had, and this one is around 53mm tall. Here are the specs that I have measured. My measurements of distance were taken with a ruler, so they might not be super accurate.

Length: 259mm
Height: 53mm
Weight: 220g
Spine thickness at handle/heel/middle/~1cm from tip: 3.5mm/3mm/just over 2mm/~1mm

I hope that this is helpful. I’ll try to add more thoughts once I have used the knife more. These are just my initial thoughts. Let me know if you have any questions. If you want, I can take more pictures or maybe some cutting videos (oh no! Not my poor cutting skills!) if that would be helpful.


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## choochoochop (May 5, 2022)

mrmoves92 said:


> The knife arrived today! Dustin at RSK was great to deal with, and I definitely recommend ordering from him. Overall, the knife seems really nice, but I have some very minor complaints. I’ll describe some of my complaints and general stuff about the knife.
> 
> The kasumi finish is a bit coarse/scratchy looking, and the core steel is reflective but not as mirror-like as you might get with a Wakui or Mutsumi Hinoura knife, but the knife still looks really nice to me.
> 
> ...


Great price too with the promo code that he has going on


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## Slimcity_13 (May 5, 2022)

mrmoves92 said:


> The knife arrived today! Dustin at RSK was great to deal with, and I definitely recommend ordering from him. Overall, the knife seems really nice, but I have some very minor complaints. I’ll describe some of my complaints and general stuff about the knife.
> 
> The kasumi finish is a bit coarse/scratchy looking, and the core steel is reflective but not as mirror-like as you might get with a Wakui or Mutsumi Hinoura knife, but the knife still looks really nice to me.
> 
> ...


This is fantastic thank you for posting this. The knife looks great. I was wondering about that cladding line since it’s not clear on the site and I do agree that your grind is way thicker than what’s shown on the site. Would you say this is more of a workhorse grind? I actually recently picked up a Takada suiboku from the BTS forum but this knife is still on my list. Thanks again and congrats on the new knife.


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## mrmoves92 (May 5, 2022)

Slimcity_13 said:


> This is fantastic thank you for posting this. The knife looks great. I was wondering about that cladding line since it’s not clear on the site and I do agree that your grind is way thicker than what’s shown on the site. Would you say this is more of a workhorse grind? I actually recently picked up a Takada suiboku from the BTS forum but this knife is still on my list. Thanks again and congrats on the new knife.


I will attach photos that show the cladding line well/decently. Is that what you were asking about? I was able to fix my scale, and I measured the weight as 220g. I don’t know what to call the knife or grind, and everyone has a different definition of workhorse, but I will try to describe it. My knife is not quite as thin as the one on the RSK website, but it is still pretty thin overall and behind the edge. The edge bevel is very small throughout the whole blade, which indicates that it is thin. Based on the weight, grind, and how it feels while cutting. I would call this knife a light mid weight or a mid weight. I have knives that I would consider mid weight knives that wedge in apples more than this knife, and I have (what I would consider) a mid weight 240mm gyuto from Mutsumi Hinoura that is heavier than this knife. This knife smoothly slides through an apple without any wedging. I would think that a workhorse of this length would weigh at least 250g and probably more likely closer to 270g+, but that is my opinion. What do you mean when you say workhorse? Because you could just mean a non-laser convex grind.

Here are photos showing the cladding line:


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## Slimcity_13 (May 6, 2022)

Thank you, this is perfect as the pics on the site made the cladding line barely noticeable. I also saw gokujyo's on other sites where it looked like there wasn't a separation at all. The knife is beautiful congrats again. I guess the only workhorse I've had any experience with is my Mazaki. Here is the Mazaki 240 coil shot for reference.






Anyway, thanks again for this very useful information. Much appreciated!


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## mrmoves92 (May 6, 2022)

Slimcity_13 said:


> Thank you, this is perfect as the pics on the site made the cladding line barely noticeable. I also saw gokujyo's on other sites where it looked like there wasn't a separation at all. The knife is beautiful congrats again. I guess the only workhorse I've had any experience with is my Mazaki. Here is the Mazaki 240 coil shot for reference.
> 
> View attachment 178253
> 
> ...


Thanks! I am glad that my pictures and descriptions have been helpful. In a recent Instagram livestream/video, Dustin said that the normal Gokujyo has a migaki finish without much contrast, but he ordered them with a kasumi/cloudy finish with more contrast. 

I sharpened this knife yesterday because the out of the box edge was decent and definitely usable but wasn't great, and holy smokes, this knife got really sharp (I guess it is no surprise, being White #2). I cooked a bit last night and this morning with it, and it did not wedge when cutting onions in half or cutting lengthwise down small carrots. Doing the horizontal cuts on onion went pretty well, but the tip still felt a bit thick. I also noticed the thick tip while cutting garlic before mincing it. Cucumbers were really easy to cut, but they stuck to the side of the blade until they were pushed up over the spine. Looking at my midweight Wakui ku/nashiji 240mm (~200g) gyuto that I have thinned, the Gokujyo is thicker at or right behind the edge at the heel and for the first 2-3 inches in front of the heel, but the rest of the knife looks as thin at the edge as the Wakui.
Here is a choil shot of my Wakui:





Here is a picture of the Gokujyo choil after sharpening:





On second thought, I could be mis-clasifying knives. Maybe the Gokujyo is closer to mid weight. I don’t know…

I have never owned or used a Mazaki, so I cannot give you any advise about that based on first hand experience. I have held a couple of Mazaki gyutos at Portland Knife House, and I have seen numerous pictures of them online. Compared to a Mazaki, I think that the Gokujyo would probably have similar thinness at the edge at/near the heel, but the spine thickness (and maybe overall thickness) would be thinner than the Mazaki. I would think that a Mazaki might wedge a little more here (but yours looks pretty thin), but then a Mazaki might cut better than the Gokujyo in the front half of the knife near the tip because of the incredible distal taper Mazaki knives have. This is all speculation, but hopefully it is educated speculation…

I hope this helps.


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## salparadise (Jul 29, 2022)

Delat said:


> If you’re just looking for a cheap Y Tanaka then Miura Itadaki is a good value
> Japanese Chef Gyuto Knife - MIURA - Itadaki Series - Sizes: 21 / 24cm
> 
> However, personally I think the sharpener makes all the difference and would recommend you try one sharpened by Yohei or Kyuzo. I always forget who those two are, but I think Myojin and Takada or maybe Yauchi?
> ...



I ordered one of these last weekend, kind of impulsive. I’m new to J-knives and wanted a white #2 daily driver to practice sharpening and using without worrying. I bought a Y. Kato AS stainless clad a month ago but don’t feel at ease with it because it’s too nice. So I’ve been using this little gem (210 gyuto) and I really like how it cuts and handles (a bit more curved). It gets really sharp easily and seems to hold the edge, although I haven’t enough experience to do pronouncements. I ordered on Sunday and used it to make dinner on Tuesday- 48 hrs from Japan.


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