# Gas vs induction - opinions



## evilgawd (Dec 24, 2020)

Hi everyone,

Background: I'm not a professional chef but did take cooking training years ago and really enjoy it
My current setup is a smoothtop electric, bought it 8-10 years ago, a high-end LG model back then.
House setup: Electric only, outside propane tank is an option

Logically speaking, going induction is the right move :
Setup already in place
Greener as its using electricity ( Hydro over here) + cheaper as electricity is cheap here
Is hotspot still an issue ??

Gas :
Enjoyable to cook with
Available during power outage
Hassle to connect + potentially more "dangerous" with gas leak or burns


Not with that being said, I'm still debating if I should spend money and get myself a dual fuel gas range and get hooked up with an outside tank. There is obviously a higher cost as I don't have the setup but cooking on fire is pretty sexy. Yes maybe I'm a bit of a pyro but there's something really enjoyable when you cook with gas.

I didn't do it 10 years ago because the wife ( now ex-wife) was scared of gas. I recently bought myself a portable butane stove with a wok and it awoke that dream of cooking with gas again 

Now, I have been reading forums all over the net and while there are still a few folks saying gas is the best, I see lots of folks who converted and wouldn't go back to gas.

That being said, let's say the propane tank is outside and there is no extra cost. Gas VS Induction, who wins from a cooking perspective ?? My heart is saying gas but my brain tells me induction is the way to go arrrrrrghhhh!!!

Thanks


----------



## LostHighway (Dec 24, 2020)

I suggest you ping @ModRQC as he has some real expertise in these matters

I have not used induction but I'm in a similar situation. I current have an electric (coil) cooktop which I very much dislike as I'm used to gas. Our wall oven is also electric but I prefer electric ovens to gas so that is a non-issue. Induction is clearly the more environmentally responsible solution as it is considerably more efficient, doesn't rely on fossil fuels, and doesn't pollute your home air (gas cooktops produce nitrogen dioxide). Induction will boil water faster and it is claimed to offer more precise temperature control although this seems to be a disputed point (context and precise terminology matter). For raw power like wok cooking, gas wins. Induction cooking surfaces are prone to damage if you're used to sliding pans horizontally in contact with the surface. Other issues:

Cookware - almost all of mine is not induction compatible so I'd be looking at around $1k USD in replacement cookware.
Ventilation - we do have a hood that vents to the outdoors but it is probably too low in capacity (CFM) for the BlueStar cooktop I'm considering. It is also mounted too low. As much as I like gas cooktops I would not consider it without proper ventilation.
Resale value - I'm told that if you might sell your home within the next five years or so that gas is the more desirable option.


----------



## SeattleB (Dec 24, 2020)

Given the costs of houses and life in general, the cost difference is immaterial regardless of which one is actually higher. Your daily coffee habit is likely 10x as expensive as either.

Power/environmental/etc. Again, the difference is too small. If that's truly important to you, move to a smaller house that's closer to work for less driving.

My view is to use whichever would make cooking more fun.


----------



## timebard (Dec 24, 2020)

No experience with induction here, but I get the heart vs. brain struggle on gas. Cooking over a flame is just more fun, period, but there's quite a bit of evidence that gas cooktops (especially without good ventilation) are more harmful to health than most cooks would like to admit, especially in terms of causing asthma in kids. So--if going the gas route, make sure to price in adequate ventilation.


----------



## GBT-Splint (Dec 24, 2020)

Third option, set up your garden and go wood fire. it's the solution to everything.

As for Gas vs induction, gas is enjoyable because .
You deglaze your pan with alcool and blaze it by just a movement of the wrist, super badass/ you feel like a chef.

Induction will heat everything faster. you can get a lot of water boiling in 1 minute.


----------



## M1k3 (Dec 24, 2020)

Induction = God Mode Activated for boiling water.


----------



## SeattleB (Dec 24, 2020)

Yes, induction is really fast for heating water. With all the prep for dinner the time to heat pasta water is not really the big factor at my house.

I agree about ventilation. Modern stoves have such huge output. It seems that it's gotten so that 600cfm is the minimum for a pro range. 

Intake air is important too. It's the one thing that's good about living in a leaky 1926 house. I usually crack open a window in the kitchen anyway to improve the flow. I'm not a fan of cooking smells in a house regardless of the cooking fuel source.


----------



## WPerry (Dec 24, 2020)

Induction is spooky fast for boiling water and preheating. Temp changes in general are very fast, up or down. Smoking/fumes are much reduced, even over non-induction electric. Along those same lines, cleanup is much easier - I've had my induction top for a little more than a year now, and I still haven't needed anything more than a damp paper towel/cloth to clean up. 

Yeah, there's something satisfying and primal about seeing and cooking over flames, but I wouldn't go back.


----------



## rmrf (Dec 24, 2020)

Induction pros with respect to gas

Easy to clean!
Reasonable high end heat (boil water, pre-heat empty pan for stir frying with skillet)
Reasonable low end heat (slowly simmering stews or beans or whatnot)
Induction cons with respect to gas

Requires induction pans
Hot/cold spots. If I cook with cast iron, searing is uneven. You can fix this with good cookware, like demeyere 7ply.
High chance of noticing a warped pan. Warping doesn't really matter in gas because the heat is carried by hot gases that flow around the pan. With induction, heat power is higly (r^3?) dependent on distance from the magnet. So, warping has a huge effect on how much energy you can dump into your pan.
In terms of heat output, my little frigidaire induction stove is not worse than my friend's Wolf in terms of boiling water or even stir frying. The big difference for me is that the Wolf is a lot more even so they don't need as expensive pans. I probably wouldn't go back to gas either, even a high powered gas stove. I'll probably buy a wok burner for my super high heat needs and that will be that.

As a side note, induction is really super easy to clean. I was making jam once and it boiled over onto the stove and hardened. On a gas or coil electric, it could have been a disaster. On induction, I just was scrubbing for an hour with a soft wet sponge. I haven't had problems with scratches, but I also don't really care about appearance.


----------



## rmrf (Dec 24, 2020)

If you live some place temperate enough, I would recommend taking the money that you would use for a dual fuel stove and making a little outdoor cooking rig that uses propane. That way, you get the fun of gas when you want it. I cook on my weber propane grill with cast iron and thick aluminum pans from the local restaurant supply store and its a lot of fun.


----------



## Racheski (Dec 24, 2020)

My suggestion would be to buy a portable induction cooktop for around $60 from Duxtop and test drive it for a couple weeks.


----------



## ModRQC (Dec 24, 2020)

I’d rather let people with more first hand experience speak, but will add this to gas cooktop advantages: you can stir or drag a pan across without fearing for scratches, and you don’t have to care much - all logistics aside of not trying to boil with your biggest pot on the simmer burner - for size of the pan. Whenever I try to weigh their advantages, the flexibility of gas wins the cooking arguments.


----------



## LostHighway (Dec 24, 2020)

rmrf said:


> If you live some place temperate enough, I would recommend taking the money that you would use for a dual fuel stove and making a little outdoor cooking rig that uses propane. That way, you get the fun of gas when you want it. I cook on my weber propane grill with cast iron and thick aluminum pans from the local restaurant supply store and its a lot of fun.



This is an excellent point. I look out my window this afternoon at 3F/-16C temperatures (t was colder earlier) and 6"+/16.25cm of snow, Minnesota not being known for balmy winter conditions. Despite the conditions of the moment I do intend to buy a portable propane burner for wok work. There are things I only want to do outside or in a fully commercial kitchen even if that means I can only make certain dishes six months (optimistically) out of the year.


----------



## damiano (Dec 24, 2020)

Gas all the way. I've used both: my own stove is gas (including gas oven) but I also cook a lot over at my sister's place and she uses a 3k euro induction top.


----------



## nexus1935 (Dec 24, 2020)

I've used 4 different types of stoves in the various places I've moved - gas, induction, ceramic top and electric coils. A few of my thoughts:

Gas - the range I had was connected to the main gas line though, so it might be different than a propane tank (haven't tried this set up to compare). Overall I like gas the most, for 2 main advantages: (1) gas at max power is best at sustaining heat that's needed for woks. No other type stays as hot once all the ingredients have been thrown in; (2) temperature changes are immediate and you can watch the flame size, so it's easy to control.
Induction - I only had the single induction burners that plug into the wall, so not a full multi-burner cooktop. Although induction was fast for boiling water, I didn't find it as useful for everyday cooking. Perhaps my induction cookware was just crappy, but induction only heats the bottom that contacts the "burner", so for a wok that's problematic because there's no heat up the rounded sides (which is most of the surface area).
Ceramic top - the easiest to clean of the options since it's just wiping down a sheet of glass. That's about it for advantages. I find they didn't get as hot as electric coils (maybe because of the layer of ceramic in between?). The biggest problem with ceramic and coils is that their heat is cyclical (they switch between off and on for a medium heat). So if you need to control the temperature, when it turns on it's hot and then there's no heat - it's not a constant temp.
Electric coils - this would probably be my second pick (after gas), just because the max heat and you don't need special cookware for it (or even flat cookware, for that matter). Can be a pain to clean if your pot boils over though, all those little trays...
My order would be gas > coil > ceramic > induction. But none of those 4 measure up to commercial gas ranges... I miss those. Gas at home just doesn't have the same power as gas in a restaurant kitchen (no surprise).


----------



## WPerry (Dec 24, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> I’d rather let people with more first hand experience speak, but will add this to gas cooktop advantages: you can stir or drag a pan across without fearing for scratches, and you don’t have to care much - all logistics aside of not trying to boil with your biggest pot on the simmer burner - for size of the pan. Whenever I try to weigh their advantages, the flexibility of gas wins the cooking arguments.



I'd imagine that if you have the awareness to cook at a moderate level or better, you have the awareness to hear and feel a burr or something digging in to the cooktop surface; you'd have to be pretty oblivious to continue dragging it around. Also, with the smooth surface, I would imagine that dings and burrs on the bottom of pans would be less likely to form in the first place (vs grates). 

Pan size is sometimes minor concern but, in practice for me, no more so than with any cooktop that I've used of the same size, really; I'm not fitting two large pans on one side regardless.


----------



## GorillaGrunt (Dec 24, 2020)

A high output gas range is the best across the board, has certain considerations (cost, ventilation, sounds like you’re not in a place with city gas), but induction is way better than regular electric.

hot spots will always be an issue except maybe solid copper on gas. Some combinations are better than others but to eliminate the consideration entirely, I haven’t found that yet.


----------



## AT5760 (Dec 24, 2020)

Does induction offer the same level of control as gas? That’s the awful thing about electric.


----------



## Jovidah (Dec 24, 2020)

Mostly cooked on gas and utter garbage electric... only occasional use of induction. The main things that come to mind for me:

-I have better feedback on gas than anything. Maybe because I can actually hear the flame, but it just feels more... direct, and quicker to adjust, even if this is more about the controls than the actual cooking mechanics.

-I couldn't give 2 craps about what cooks water faster. If I'm in a hurry I use my watercooker. 

-What really annoyed me is that with any non-gas method of cooking, heat transfer depends more upon the pan actually sitting right on top of the stove. Since I'm the kinda person that mostly likes to toss stuff while sauteing or stirfrying stuff, instead of stirring with a utensil, this is a pain in the butt since you're constantly taking it off the heat when not using gas. 

-Gas works better on cheaper pans. Both because it spreads the heat a bit better, and because it seems to cause less issues with warping on thinner pans.

-Gas works on all pans. Warped pans can become problematic on electric while not being much of a problem on gas, and some material types simply won't work (for example aluminium without an added induction disk).

-Cleanup is probably easier on induction, no argument there.

-I wouldn't put too much faith in those 'gas is bad for you' things that I saw linked in here recently. Very much... conclusions written down by organisations with an agenda based on research that mentioned nothing supporting the claims. At most 'there is a chance of higher concentrations of X which has a chance of increasing risk of Y through increased amounts of Z'. Nothing that even comes close to showing any causality.


----------



## Michi (Dec 24, 2020)

I really like cooking with gas. But one thing that quite often annoys me that, even on the smallest burner on the lowest setting, things are still too hot. Electric cooktops have the edge when it comes to maintaining really low heat.


----------



## juice (Dec 24, 2020)

Having had both over the years/decades, I'll never go back to gas. And most people who rave about how much better gas is than induction have never used either a decent induction cooktop or have used one for long.


----------



## Luftmensch (Dec 24, 2020)

Here is a tangential thought.... How hippy do you want to be? Gas is not a renewable resource. Electricity _can_ be. 

If you are wealthy, you can install solar/batteries on your house. If you arent it is likely you can get a percentage of your electricity from renewables through your retailer (here we can). In the long run I'd like to end up with an induction stove for this reason.


----------



## Luftmensch (Dec 24, 2020)

Michi said:


> But one thing that quite often annoys me that, even on the smallest burner on the lowest setting, things are still too hot.



We're on a crappy gas stove at the moment. Our smallest ring goes quite low. A disadvantage is a hot spot the size of the burner on large pans - it doesn't spread heat well. Perhaps this isn't a problem for very low heat tasks. Since our stove is crappy, another disadvantage is that you have to be quite careful turning the smallest burner down. It is really easy to extinguish the flame on low gas flow.


----------



## WPerry (Dec 24, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Here is a tangential thought.... How hippy do you want to be? Gas is not a renewable resource. Electricity _can_ be.
> 
> If you are wealthy, you can install solar/batteries on your house. If you arent it is likely you can get a percentage of your electricity from renewables through your retailer (here we can). In the long run I'd like to end up with an induction stove for this reason.



We're not wealthy, but we have have solar panels and a battery; the prices have come down pretty significantly in the last decade - the system was about the price of a decent midsize car. 

Unfortunately, the range is the only thing in the house that's not connected to the PowerWall, so we can't actually use it when the grid is down, not that that's an issue very often. But yeah, what little energy we do get from the grid is designated to be from renewables.


----------



## juice (Dec 25, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> If you are wealthy, you can install solar/batteries on your house.


There's quite a difference between solar and solar with a battery, at least down here in Australia. Solar is affordable for many home owners and is a sensible economic decision for most (we're adding a largeish solar system as soon as we move), but adding a battery destroys the economic argument in almost all cases and if it's done it's being done for reasons other than the ROI.


----------



## Michi (Dec 25, 2020)

juice said:


> adding a battery destroys the economic argument in almost all cases and if it's done it's being done for reasons other than the ROI.


I have a 6.6 kW solar system and have been eyeballing a battery for years. Every time I check again, it still doesn't make sense economically. I'd love to have a UPS for my house, but not at those prices.


----------



## ModRQC (Dec 25, 2020)

WPerry said:


> I'd imagine that if you have the awareness to cook at a moderate level or better, you have the awareness to hear and feel a burr or something digging in to the cooktop surface; you'd have to be pretty oblivious to continue dragging it around. Also, with the smooth surface, I would imagine that dings and burrs on the bottom of pans would be less likely to form in the first place (vs grates).
> 
> Pan size is sometimes minor concern but, in practice for me, no more so than with any cooktop that I've used of the same size, really; I'm not fitting two large pans on one side regardless.



I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed to find any ceran with two 12 inches burner. Thing is, your induction is nowhere near as efficient if the burner is smaller than the pan, and that's if it works at all; your radiant has sensors to detect overheat outside of burners, and will cycle down (!) your cycling-anyhow burner even more.

As for the other aspect, I also repair appliances, and sell them secondhand too. Even those that make a show of telling us they don't have a scratch on it... they either have friendly lighting, or... There's also more to the limits of flexibility on a ceran, but I wouldn't want only those details to derail into a bigger argument than they are. Induction is a tremendous leap forward of radiant, and even where I loved the old choils stoves, there are things of a radiant that stand as compensation. But gas... is gas. Doesn't need newer technology, does have a ton of cons, but it just works.

There would also be the point of durability - but that is a messed up point to start on in 2021-ish regarding the bulk of what a particular can buy for appliances.


----------



## orangehero (Dec 25, 2020)

Gas.


----------



## krx927 (Dec 25, 2020)

I was using gas for my whole life and the last half a year I am on induction (not voluntarily).

With one word: GAS

The biggest problems that I have with induction are:
When you are preparing meat on high (ish) heat it's just sticking to the pan. Most problematic is the minced meat, there is no way to get nice browning, at the end everything sticks. On gas this is completely different. Also preparing steaks and other meat is just not like on gas. Because of this single problem I would never choose induction!

The diameter of heating surface is not big enough for me for many cases. The pans and pots I regularly use are way bigger. I have that option to use 2 areas at once for one pan, but it's still not enough.

But like others said there are positive sides also, easy to clean, fast boiling of water, relatively good for all low\mid temperature cooking.

But all the positives still do not overweight the 2 negatives!


----------



## juice (Dec 25, 2020)

krx927 said:


> The biggest problems that I have with induction are:
> When you are preparing meat on high (ish) heat it's just sticking to the pan. Most problematic is the minced meat, there is no way to get nice browning, at the end everything sticks. On gas this is completely different. Also preparing steaks and other meat is just not like on gas. Because of this single problem I would never choose induction!


I do these things every day, and they're perfectly fine.


----------



## alterwisser (Dec 25, 2020)

krx927 said:


> I was using gas for my whole life and the last half a year I am on induction (not voluntarily).
> 
> With one word: GAS
> 
> ...



That has never happened to me with induction. Weird.

been cooking on induction for the first time in my life for 4 months now. Gas for the 8 years prior to that. Electric before.

I love gas, but it might be more of a nostalgic/primal thing. Kind of like carbon vs stainless haha.

The current house has a very large induction range and it’s really nice. I love the rapid water boiling, low temp ability AND the safety aspect that I can basically touch the range a couple of seconds after turning it off. That’s a huge bonus with kids.

Cleaning is another. I just spray/wipe and it’s done. With gas you have to disassemble half of that thing (it feels) every time.


----------



## MarcelNL (Dec 25, 2020)

I'm now cooking on a (far too small) induction unit for like 5 months, and I have learned to love it. Another pro that I did not yet see is that you do not heat up the room anywhere near as much as with a decent gas stove. 

Only downside is that pan sizes and type of pans do matter, in our new house we are going to have to use induction and I will be looking out for a set that allows large pans and is able to flexibly handle pans (and we'll be buying new pans).


----------



## LewRob80 (Dec 25, 2020)

I just bought an induction stove for our new house (in Quebec) due to not wanting to run a gas line. As a chef that’s used both professionally there are reasonable differences, but for home use I love induction. Faster heat pickup means less preheats, efficiency keeps the hydro (electric) bill lower and less heat kicked off from the surface makes my wife more comfortable cooking in the kitchen! Highly recommend!


----------



## Jovidah (Dec 25, 2020)

Another minor thing that I would still miss never the less... since you're forced to keep the pan flat: tilting a pan to pool the fat and brown uneven parts of meat doesn't really work when not cooking on gas.

For the low-temperature stuff... I only really see this being a potential issue for long low and slow braise kind of stuff, but I honestly find this much more convenient in an oven anyway.


----------



## Luftmensch (Dec 25, 2020)

krx927 said:


> When you are preparing meat on high (ish) heat it's just sticking to the pan.



I am curious: how thick are your pans? Could this be mitigated with thicker pans?


----------



## Boynutman (Dec 25, 2020)

One more benefit of induction: much less moisture generation.


----------



## WPerry (Dec 25, 2020)

MarcelNL said:


> Another pro that I did not yet see is that you do not heat up the room anywhere near as much as with a decent gas stove.



It's been long enough that I'd already forgotten about this and have been taking it for granted, but you're right; it was very a noticeable difference.


----------



## evilgawd (Dec 25, 2020)

Side question, I have never had a gas range so let me ask , compared to an electric cooktop , 2 things have stood up

1- Is the heat that much noticeable ?? I could see as a factor in a restaurant where you are cooking for hours, but is this really a key thing for a home? 
2- What about food odour, is it much worst?


----------



## WPerry (Dec 25, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> I'd imagine you'd be hard pressed to find any ceran with two 12 inches burner. Thing is, your induction is nowhere near as efficient if the burner is smaller than the pan, and that's if it works at all; your radiant has sensors to detect overheat outside of burners, and will cycle down (!) your cycling-anyhow burner even more.
> 
> As for the other aspect, I also repair appliances, and sell them secondhand too. Even those that make a show of telling us they don't have a scratch on it... they either have friendly lighting, or... There's also more to the limits of flexibility on a ceran, but I wouldn't want only those details to derail into a bigger argument than they are. Induction is a tremendous leap forward of radiant, and even where I loved the old choils stoves, there are things of a radiant that stand as compensation. But gas... is gas. Doesn't need newer technology, does have a ton of cons, but it just works.
> 
> There would also be the point of durability - but that is a messed up point to start on in 2021-ish regarding the bulk of what a particular can buy for appliances.



"I’d rather let people with more first hand experience speak... "
"Well, in my experience -"
"JK - you're wrong. lol"

Well played.


----------



## parbaked (Dec 25, 2020)

Jovidah said:


> Another minor thing that I would still miss never the less... since you're forced to keep the pan flat: tilting a pan to pool the fat and brown uneven parts of meat doesn't really work when not cooking on gas.



I use cast iron, carbon and multi-ply stainless with induction. 
All retain enough heat that tilting or tossing doesn't really impact temps in my experience.


----------



## Lars (Dec 25, 2020)

I can easily tilt a pan on my induction top if I wan't to pool up fat for basting without the heat turning off


----------



## Racheski (Dec 25, 2020)

There are hybrid ranges that combine induction and traditional gas so you get both, so whenever you are yearning for the scent of propane the option is available.


----------



## alterwisser (Dec 25, 2020)

This is what I currently have and it’s great. Before that we had a tiny gas range and I don’t want to go back to a small range.


----------



## rmrf (Dec 25, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> This is what I currently have and it’s great. Before that we had a tiny gas range and I don’t want to go back to a small range.


Do you have any problem with the touchscreen to change burner power? My induction stove has knobs and I always wondered if its difficult to change temperature on touchscreen if your hands are dirty or greasy.


----------



## alterwisser (Dec 25, 2020)

rmrf said:


> Do you have any problem with the touchscreen to change burner power? My induction stove has knobs and I always wondered if its difficult to change temperature on touchscreen if your hands are dirty or greasy.



i would prefer knobs but it’s not really a problem, no. If hands are really wet it doesn’t work well, but I always have a kitchen towel on me when cooking anyway, so that’s easily solved


----------



## MarcelNL (Dec 25, 2020)

we have a Neff and I positively absolutely HATE the touch screen part of it....A spot of grease, water whatever and it locks, switches off, does not respond.....GRRRRR


----------



## SeattleB (Dec 25, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> We're on a crappy gas stove at the moment. Our smallest ring goes quite low. A disadvantage is a hot spot the size of the burner on large pans - it doesn't spread heat well. Perhaps this isn't a problem for very low heat tasks. Since our stove is crappy, another disadvantage is that you have to be quite careful turning the smallest burner down. It is really easy to extinguish the flame on low gas flow.



Some well-designed burners have a star-shaped flame. The other smart thing to look for is how close the grate is to the flame. Higher is better, as it allows the heated gases to spread out (this is American Range but there are others). 





Some have mentioned that cleaning is a pain with gas. Certainly gas takes a bit longer to clean than induction, but induction has the problem that 10 years from now that glass surface will be scratched. I'll concede that some gas stoves are very poorly designed for cleaning. Take a look at a Blue Star with open-burners. If you spill, the liquid will run down past the burner underneath the top, and directly onto the the wiring, the tube that delivers gas, and the igniter (maybe cracking the ceramic igniter). That's a nuts design. The best have a tray that fits closely around the burner so the liquid just goes into the tray. The really pro setup are the few that will allow you to put a bit of water to cover the bottom of the tray if you're cooking something that is guaranteed to create a mess. The food / grease / splatter can't burn onto the surface. It just drops to the water. Lift out the tray, wipe in the sink, and done in 30 seconds.

Another thing to consider with any electric is that all those fancy modern electronics will fail from the heat. The best reliability in stoves are the ones with no computer boards. It's even worse if the unit has a self-cleaning oven due to the even higher temps. It's just a matter of time. For the dealer, it's like future profits in escrow.

Others have asked about the extra heat of gas (into the room). It's mandatory to have a good hood that vents to the outside of the house. Someone asked about condensation because burning natural gas emits water vapor. Again, ventilation. 

As for the environmental aspects of burning natural gas vs electricity, I would have to ask a few questions. Is your electricity from solar or nuclear or hydro? Or coal? Or...natural gas generated? How big is your house? Do you really need one that big? Do you use electricity for heating your house? How far do you drive in a year? How many airline flights? Do you have fun with a boat/motorcycle/snowmobile/RV? Those things overwhelm your energy and carbon footprint. Buying an electric stove rather than gas won't dent it.


----------



## juice (Dec 25, 2020)

SeattleB said:


> but induction has the problem that 10 years from now that glass surface will be scratched


My Miele lasted that long and it wasn't scratched.



SeattleB said:


> Buying an electric stove rather than gas won't dent it.


Ah, the old "if it won't solve it perfectly, it will only help a bit, it's not worth doing" argument.


----------



## Michi (Dec 25, 2020)

juice said:


> Ah, the old "if it won't solve it perfectly, it will only help a bit, it's not worth doing" argument.


I hear you. But, to be fair, the electricity consumed by a stove top next to the overall household consumption is pretty much negligible. The vast bulk of it is consumed by air conditioning, hot water system, the fridge, and lighting. (Lighting is getting better now that LED bulbs have become affordable.)


----------



## SeattleB (Dec 25, 2020)

juice said:


> Ah, the old "if it won't solve it perfectly, it will only help a bit, it's not worth doing" argument.



It seems you assume that it will "only help a bit." What if it hurts?

For example, in the U.S. we generate about 40% of our energy from natural gas. If a person lives in an area that uses natural gas power generation, burning gas to generate electricity (conversion loss) to send through wires (transmission loss) to an induction stove (conversion loss) is less efficient, more costly, more polluting, and creates more greenhouse gas than simply having a stove that burns the gas.

About 25% of U.S. electricity comes from burning coal. Is it better to burn coal rather than have a stove that burns natural gas?

If we want to solve a problem, don't we want the most effective plan? I would think that is defined as the biggest bang for the buck. So yes, some things are not worth doing because there are other things that are more effective. Let's begin with the things that are the most effective and work our way down the list.


----------



## Michi (Dec 25, 2020)

SeattleB said:


> Let's begin with the things that are the most effective and work our way down the list.


In computing, this is known as the 80-20 rule. (In practice, it is more like the "99-1" rule.) If I have a program that runs too slow, the most effective way to make it faster is to spend the effort on the 20% of the code in which the program spends 80% of its time. If I can make those 20% of the code run twice as fast (which is not unusual), the overall execution speed will almost double. If I improve the other 80% of the code instead, the overall execution speed will hardly change at all.

In Australia, the big culprits are electricity generation and transport. Improve those even just a little, and we get a lot bang for the buck.


----------



## coxhaus (Dec 25, 2020)

My first house was electric. My second house has gas and I would never go back to electric. If I had my first house, I would probably replace the electric with induction but I am not sure it was out back then. And I have no experience with induction.


----------



## Luftmensch (Dec 25, 2020)

I have to side with @juice's sentiments: "dont let perfect be the enemy of the good"....




SeattleB said:


> It seems you assume that it will "only help a bit." What if it hurts?



Of course! If the consumer is uninformed, the answer is not straight forward. But this discussion was couched in the context of the consumer actively seeking a lower carbon footprint and paying attention to the source. Specifically, solar and green energy sourced from the retailer were mentioned.




SeattleB said:


> As for the environmental aspects of burning natural gas vs electricity, I would have to ask a few questions. Is your electricity from solar or nuclear or hydro? Or coal? Or...natural gas generated? How big is your house? Do you really need one that big? Do you use electricity for heating your house? How far do you drive in a year? How many airline flights? Do you have fun with a boat/motorcycle/snowmobile/RV? Those things overwhelm your energy and carbon footprint. Buying an electric stove rather than gas won't dent it.



The problem is, in affluent countries, we're are over entitled consumers. Asking people to moderate their behaviour or curtailing their set of choices is not easily saleable. I would rather people were inefficient with their carbon budgets - or even openly contradictory, than take a pure position.

In reality, how many people do you think cancelled their overseas holiday... or... decided not to buy that snowmobile... because that was bigger bang-for-their-buck than swapping to LED or fluorescent light bulbs?

And what would you rather? Take a person who absolutely _had to_ (in their opinion) live with the AC constantly on. Is it better if they are mindful to turn off the lights on rooms they are not using; or not giving a damn and leaving the lights on arbitrarily?




SeattleB said:


> If we want to solve a problem, don't we want the most effective plan? I would think that is defined as the biggest bang for the buck. So yes, some things are not worth doing because there are other things that are more effective. Let's begin with the things that are the most effective and work our way down the list.



You are absolutely 100% right... but there is a major flaw in that argument. By that line of reasoning, in the hierarchy of 'effective things', individual behaviour is so far down the list you cant see it with a telescope. If you want effective change governments have to regulate society. All the effort from an army of greenies living a spartan eco-lifestyle could be wiped out or replicated multiple times over by an aluminium smelter or efficiency standards on vehicles.

When it comes to climate change, I have voted for the lesser of two evils for the past 20 years. This aught to get me the best bang for my buck... but you know what?? That has resulted in little change.... so we come back to imperfect individual choices


----------



## Rangen (Dec 25, 2020)

I make choices in my kitchen based on the esthetics of working with the thing. This is constraining, but seems to get me the most enjoyment. So, gas. Much more fun, and you have a direct relationship with the heat source that is not to be found elsewhere. Whenever possible, my cooking utensils are wood. Much more fun to touch. Although I admit that some Japanese spatulas I picked up have a very similar appeal. They have very fine grooves in them to make them tactile.

The most constraining part is that I have been tempted, lately, to sell most of my stainless steel knives and go full carbon, for the same sort of reasons. There are exceptions, certainly, but almost all of them might be cleavers.


----------



## Luftmensch (Dec 25, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> This is what I currently have and it’s great. Before that we had a tiny gas range and I don’t want to go back to a small range.



Hmmm 

I don't think anyone has said it yet... but your photo made me think. Another benefit of induction is extra countertop space. Depending on what you are doing... that flat surface may have more utility than gas trivets 




evilgawd said:


> 2- What about food odour, is it much worst?



Since this hasn't been directly answered... What do you mean food odour? Do you mean gas odour (none if you are combusting it)? I suppose induction has a minor advantage over gas with regards to 'food odour' if you are talking about food that spills over onto the burner (or outside of the pan). It is less likely to burn and produce those bitter smells.


----------



## alterwisser (Dec 26, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Hmmm
> 
> I don't think anyone has said it yet... but your photo made me think. Another benefit of induction is extra countertop space. Depending on what you are doing... that flat surface may have more utility than gas trivets



I actually contemplated getting a large custom cutting board that would fit over the cooking surface, but it would’ve been insanely heavy and very expensive, so I ditched the idea.


----------



## evilgawd (Dec 26, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Since this hasn't been directly answered... What do you mean food odour? Do you mean gas odour (none if you are combusting it)? I suppose induction has a minor advantage over gas with regards to 'food odour' if you are talking about food that spills over onto the burner (or outside of the pan). It is less likely to burn and produce those bitter smells.



Ok let me explain, I have never had gas in a home environment. My question is if you cook something since the heat output is higher then smoothtop, are the food odour more intense? Lots of people have mentioned you need really powerful ventilation when on gas.So I assume, this could lead to more food odour in the house .... Maybe I'm overthinking this


----------



## Phip (Dec 26, 2020)

SeattleB said:


> It's mandatory to have a good hood that vents to the outside of the house. Someone asked about condensation because burning natural gas emits water vapor. Again, ventilation.



Absolutely, the vent must go outside and not simply recirculate.

We're replacing our cooktop next month. We have gas and decided to continue with it because it's familiar and we like it a lot. We checked before deciding, though, to make sure of two things: (1) our hood vented outdoors, which it does, and (2) we could get a vent with enough suction power to handle the more powerful stove top burners we're installing. If your vent is recirculating and doesn't vent out of the living space, then gas definitely pollutes your indoor air. If you vent outside and your vent is powerful enough to get all the fumes--and mounted w/in specification so it operates as needed--then your indoor air quality shouldn't suffer from the gas stove. Assuming, of course, the vent is on when the gas is on...


----------



## coxhaus (Dec 26, 2020)

evilgawd said:


> Ok let me explain, I have never had gas in a home environment. My question is if you cook something since the heat output is higher then smoothtop, are the food odour more intense? Lots of people have mentioned you need really powerful ventilation when on gas.So I assume, this could lead to more food odour in the house .... Maybe I'm overthinking this



What I have noticed cooking on my Viking gas stove is browning while cooking is much nicer. It is more restaurant like. So, the smells are nicer also while cooking.


----------



## Lars (Dec 26, 2020)

It's so much more enjoyable to cook with a proper hood. When I was moving in to my current house 5 years ago, the original 1960's kitchen had to go and I had a powerful hood with the motor placed in the attic and venting outside installed. It's such a joy to have a (near) silent powerful hood.


----------



## evilgawd (Dec 26, 2020)

Yea I have a ~600CFM (on high I assume) exterior venting range hood. So it should be a non-issue?


----------



## sidey (Dec 26, 2020)

Am I going to be the first to say... both?! (Space permitting)

I have 4- ring induction and 2-ring gas hobs side by side, I love both for reasons well stated above... hold something warm all day and boil water in seconds on the induction; nappe that steak and stir fry on gas


----------



## Luftmensch (Dec 27, 2020)

evilgawd said:


> Ok let me explain, I have never had gas in a home environment. My question is if you cook something since the heat output is higher then smoothtop, are the food odour more intense?



Not in my experience. (I have not used induction. I can only compare gas to ceramic & coil stoves). What you cook; what pans you use; and how you cook will likely have a bigger impact...



evilgawd said:


> Lots of people have mentioned you need really powerful ventilation when on gas.So I assume, this could lead to more food odour in the house ....



As has been mentioned before; people hold some concern over the effects of burning gas on air quality (carbon monoxide & nitrogen dioxide) within the house. Gas also releases extra vapour when burnt. A more powerful rangehood helps mitigate the problem.



evilgawd said:


> Maybe I'm overthinking this


----------



## jankdc (Dec 27, 2020)

I love my induction stovetop. I've cooked on gas and electric in the past, but I wouldn't go back to gas. I love that there are no fumes, it's cooler in the summer, it's fast. I have an extra workspace when I'm not cooking. It's relatively easy to clean. I did need to upgrade my wok (After trying a couple this is the one that worked for me) and my pots. I moved to a Fissler fry pan away from cast iron and the steaks are awesome.

I now use a flat bottom iron wok. I preheat it to smoking, add some oil and pour wipe it off, and start stir frying. I keep it on medium or medium-high for garlic and ginger, then when I add the bulk of vegetables or meat, I will crank the heat To keep it from overcooking, I will turn off the heat a little early and keep working until it's done. 1. Chinese Broccoli with Garlic, Beech Mushrooms, and Bourbon 2. Mandarin Bok Choy with Ground Beef, Shiitake, and Black Fungus in Brown Sauce.


----------



## MarcelNL (Dec 27, 2020)

don't forget that a hood needs fresh air into the room, or it simply does not work. 
For our new house I want a high capacity hood, venting outside but likley will have to resort to having a hole drilled after the house is finished


----------



## YumYumSauce (Dec 27, 2020)

Ive always cooked on gas and recently got an outdoor wok burner. Its a game changer for me. If I'm not using it for wok cooking, I can boil water in about a minute, light binchotan, fry, and do high temp searing with stainless/carbon steel/cast iron pans. And no more fire alarms going off in the house.

I dont have much experience with induction but with the addition of the wok burner I'd be highly interested in switching.

I guess the environment would be a factor tho. I live in the desert with mild winters so I can leave it outside and not worry about it getting wet and can still use it comfortably. Cooking outside in the blazing afternoon in the middle of July is another story. It wont be comfortable but I'm used to this heat and it wont warm up the kitchen inside.


----------



## jankdc (Dec 27, 2020)

YumYumSauce said:


> Ive always cooked on gas and recently got an outdoor wok burner. Its a game changer for me. If I'm not using it for wok cooking, I can boil water in about a minute, light binchotan, fry, and do high temp searing with stainless/carbon steel/cast iron pans. And no more fire alarms going off in the house.
> 
> I dont have much experience with induction but with the addition of the wok burner I'd be highly interested in switching.
> 
> I guess the environment would be a factor tho. I live in the desert with mild winters so I can leave it outside and not worry about it getting wet and can still use it comfortably. Cooking outside in the blazing afternoon in the middle of July is another story. It wont be comfortable but I'm used to this heat and it wont warm up the kitchen inside.



I recently realized that we have a propane burner that I think can be used for a wok. I'm looking forward to trying it out in the springtime. I'm in Cleveland, so I'm not about to cook outside now. As for the fire alarms, I have a system where we close the kitchen to the rest of the house, crack open the back door, and put a box fan blasting in the window. The room doesn't get too cold, plus I'm working the wok.

With the induction range, I'm really able to get that searing temperature. With our old electric range, I wasn't really able to get it hot enough. It was more of a steam fry.


----------



## coxhaus (Jan 10, 2021)

So, I am curious with an induction range do you use a 30-amp 220v or 50-amp 220v plug? How many amps does an induction burner pull on full power? Can you run 6 or 8 induction burners on full power at the same time?


----------



## DT74 (Jan 15, 2021)

Both are great, gas is a little more soulful, induction is probably more effective. Nearly every high-end French restaurant has gone that way. Plus much cooler in the summer


----------



## jankdc (Jan 16, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> So, I am curious with an induction range do you use a 30-amp 220v or 50-amp 220v plug? How many amps does an induction burner pull on full power? Can you run 6 or 8 induction burners on full power at the same time?


I have a base unit that needs at least 40-amps. My old electric range was on a 50-amp plug, so I was good to go. On my unit, each "burner" runs on a different wattage, between 2,500 and 3,600 watts. I'm assuming you can do as many "burners" as you want as long as you have enough power for the unit. For restaurant use or more than the 4-5 "burners" you find on a typical range or cooktop, you may need to get an electrition to run some lines.


----------



## AT5760 (May 4, 2021)

I've been cooking on induction for about a month now. I've been cooking at home for about 30 years with the previous time split about 2/3 with gas and 1/3 with electric coil stoves. Before moving in 2019, I'd been on gas since 2009. The past 18 months on a flat top electric range had been miserable. I'd forgotten how much I hate everything about cooking on an electric range. Even my wife, whose cooking repertoire is boiling water and scrambling eggs, couldn't stand it. 

So, when the electric range started acting up (inconsistent oven temps, buttons not working), we decided to replace the range rather than repair it. While we have natural gas in the house for heat, there was no line run to the kitchen. The hassle of getting an electrician and a plumber out just to get the new range installed did not seem worth it. I'd also come to prefer an electric oven over gas, and the dual fuel prices just didn't make sense. After reading plenty of feedback here and elsewhere, I started looking into induction more closely and decided to give it a try.

Overall, I'm very happy. My biggest complaint with a coil stove is responsiveness. Induction feels nearly as responsive as gas. A few seconds after I adjust the "heat," liquids will go from a boil to a simmer. Pans seem to heat up pretty quickly. Being able to boil water for tea in about a minute is pretty cool, even if its a bit of a parlor trick. The stovetop gets plenty hot to sear meats, and the lowest settings are terrific for keeping things warm. When I made beef stroganoff a couple of weeks ago, I was concerned about controlling heat and the sour cream breaking. No issue at all.

I'm a convert. Unless I ever end up in one of those dream kitchen situations - then I'd probably do gas and induction.


----------



## Eziemniak (May 4, 2021)

Gas gas gas
Electric stoves are cancer
But for some unexplainable reason induction wok at one hotel I worked at was good


----------

