# honing/sharpening steel - german knives



## ricardocassiano78 (Feb 20, 2017)

I've tried, but my father doesn't want to learn how to use a waterstone. He asked me for a good honing/sharpening steel him (it will be use on german knives, 56 to 58HRC). I saw a few F Dick, but there are a lot of options (polished, normal cut, diamond, sapphire, etc..). 
Any tips?
Thank you!


----------



## Lars (Feb 20, 2017)

Ikea ceramic. A bit short, so less than great on longer knives, but for the money it a steal(haha)..

Lars


----------



## berko (Feb 20, 2017)

i have tried them all and would recommend either "fine cut" or "super fine cut", depending on how much he cares for the edges... i like these flat once the most:

https://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=1384

https://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=1380


----------



## daveb (Feb 20, 2017)

I keep a DMT Ceramic close by. Happy with it for what it is.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009YV7S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


----------



## Benuser (Feb 20, 2017)

Sieger LongLife. Will abrade a burr, not redress it, when used properly, i.e. with a very light touch. Quite some learning curve. A stone is easier, has a larger contact area. Equivalent to some 2k in the end result.


----------



## bennyprofane (Feb 20, 2017)

berko said:


> i have tried them all and would recommend either "fine cut" or "super fine cut", depending on how much he cares for the edges... i like these flat once the most:
> 
> https://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=1384
> 
> https://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=1380



+1 Dickoron super fine cut works wonders on those softer steels (even works on a HRC 60/61 if the sharpening angle is 30 degrees or bigger),
prefer it to my Sieger Long Life. Just know that it doesn't remove any metal but straightens the edge.

And yes, the Dickoron offerings can be overwhelming because there are so many choices, after all I read online I got this super fine cut:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000T4OT8G/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Berko, is this similar to the one you recommended?


----------



## ABranson (Feb 20, 2017)

What is the main difference between the fine cut and super fine cut for the F dick. And is there a benefit to a flat steel to a "normal" steel? I like using the flat one we have at work, but its a cheapo one and is prolly doing more harm to the knives there than good.


----------



## bennyprofane (Feb 20, 2017)

The super fine cut is finer, it might take a few strokes more but gives a better result, I think. A flat steel is recommend because the area which touches the knife is bigger and there is less risk of damaging the edge.


----------



## ABranson (Feb 20, 2017)

what about the not flat, but not "normal" pole. is that called an oval steel? (cuz its not REALLY an oval)? Benefits?


----------



## chinacats (Feb 20, 2017)

I prefer a smooth steel rod for softer steel knives...


----------



## berko (Feb 20, 2017)

> A flat steel is recommend because the area which touches the knife is bigger and there is less risk of damaging the edge.



this.



> Berko, is this similar to the one you recommended?



yea, its similar except for the flatness.





the butchers i work with sharpen their soft knifes every friday. on monday they only use the polished dickoron on their fresh edges, on tuesday they already need the super fine cut, maybe followed by the polished one. wednesday they use the fine cut and so on, ending up with the saphire the duller their knifes get.


----------



## Benuser (Feb 20, 2017)

The whole idea of steeling is to rebuild an edge from fatigued steel. To some extend it does work. But only for a very short lapse of time. And the steeling will weaken the steel even further. 
Once you get such a knife on the stones, you will have to start with a low grit to remove all the fatigued steel.
I believe, after a lot of experimenting with soft carbons, it's really time to abandon these poor habits.


----------



## ABranson (Feb 20, 2017)

So let's say I get the F Dick 2000 (Super fine). Should I get another steel as well to use before I use the superfine? Like should I get a less fine steel or another steel? Or is having one good steel enough?


----------



## bennyprofane (Feb 20, 2017)

The super fine is enough in my opinion.

Benuser, have you tried the super fine steel? I have made good experiences with the soft herder carbon knives, rarely need to sharpen them now and they are razor sharp after a few strokes on the steel.


----------



## ABranson (Feb 20, 2017)

And any recommendations on stripping blocks? Are any better than others


----------



## Benuser (Feb 20, 2017)

Sure, have tried with polished steels as well. But once you use a steel, keep it in your immediate neighbourhood because you will need it again -- very soon.
That's exactly the problem. You're rebuilding a very weak edge. Better have the fatigued steel removed -- with soft carbons I would suggest a very high grit, like 8k. With soft stainless as Krupp's 4116 I would avoid any high polishing because it will destabilise its structure. Very, very light deburring on a 2k or a Sieger seems more adequate.


----------



## Nemo (Feb 20, 2017)

Make a stropping block out of balsa, sanded flat to 400 grit, loaded with CrOx or diamond In the 0.5-3 micron range.

Or lay a sheet of newaspaper on a stone.


----------



## Benuser (Feb 20, 2017)

bennyprofane said:


> The super fine is enough in my opinion.
> 
> Benuser, have you tried the super fine steel? I have made good experiences with the soft herder carbon knives, rarely need to sharpen them now and they are razor sharp after a few strokes on the steel.



I keep them by stropping and deburring on 8k, 3k or whatever is needed. Leather or newspaper with a lot of black ink will work as well -- but won't hold.


----------



## Nemo (Feb 20, 2017)

Benuser said:


> I keep them by stropping and deburring on 8k, 3k or whatever is needed. Leather or newspaper with a lot of black ink will work as well -- but won't hold.



Do you strop on a dry or wet stone?


----------



## Benuser (Feb 20, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Do you strop on a dry or wet stone?



Sometimes I do on whet, better on damp. It won't matter too much for the immediate result, but if you don't want to see clogging or glazing better have them moisted a bit.


----------



## ABranson (Feb 21, 2017)

How do you strop on a stone. Doesn't it need to be leather?


----------



## Benuser (Feb 21, 2017)

Edge trailing strokes on a fine stone work very well and more precise than with leather


----------



## suntzu (Feb 24, 2017)

hi riccardo,

as a long time user of german knives, i recommend a Fischer steel, super fine i guess it is.

for softer steels as used in european steel knives you dont need a steel to be diamond impregnated.

and a good cheap stone such as a norton silicon carbide will be sufficient as a starting point.

to be honest thats all i have used for the last 25 years and my knives have faired ok out of it.

that being said, since i got the Edge Pro i have only redone the edge once per year, and i have only needed to use the Fischer steel every hour with gentle gliding strokes and my knives are still like razors... what will kill the edge faster than anything is smashing it hard along a steel when the job of the steel is simply to hone the edge and not make it.


----------

