# Have Shapton 1k, 5k. Do i need an 8k?



## coffeelover191919 (May 14, 2020)

My knives: brand new Yoshihiro AS 210 Gyuto, Aritsugu Blue 150 Petty, Masamoto SW 240mm (rarely use, will do so when i'm better at sharpening) 

I can get a dull knife to cut paper held in my left hand with my shapton 1k + 5k. The above 3 knives are in 95-100% new condition. Would an 8k be good for daily/weekly maintenance / honing? 
Would there be any difference in just honing with the 5k vs the 8k?

i have some leather in the mail and wood to make a strop, so theres that.


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## panda (May 14, 2020)

No


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## daveb (May 14, 2020)

You don't need the 8K. If you add a yanagiba to you kit you may reconsider something higher than 5k.

But I do like the SP2000 in that lineup. The SP1000 hits a little lower, the SP2000 hits a little higher. Together they do a great job on gyuto, petty.


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## coffeelover191919 (May 14, 2020)

I've only sharpened like 10 knives in my life (the first 7 were mediocre jobs) , can you explain to me what a 2000 would add to a current set of 1000 / 5000 ?


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## daveb (May 14, 2020)

For a gyuto, friends/family knife, house knife, I use the SP1000 then the SP2000 and I'm done. The SP2000 leaves them nicely finished. It's a perfect combo for your friends Shun. The SP5000 doesn't add anything to most knives.


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## Ruso (May 14, 2020)

Yes


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## kayman67 (May 15, 2020)

Shapton Pro 1000 is more of a 600-800 stone. Not really needed most of the time and some other things to consider, unless you need it for specific jobs or are just highly impacient. 
Most people enjoy the 2000. Some the 1500. For example, right now I took the middle road and replaced them both with the 1500. This is if you want Shapton and Shapton Pro alone. 

Shapton Pro 5000 is really not a favourite for any touch ups, the 8000 even less. I could name at least a few stones I would rather pick before them. And I'm in general a higher grit user.


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## bahamaroot (May 15, 2020)

You don't need an 8k. I rarely use my 5k anymore. Most of my kitchen knives are between 1-3k.


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## inferno (May 15, 2020)

*need*? hmm thats a new unknown word for me 

no one really _needs_ more than 1 stone. i just counted my stones. i seems i have 28 of them. didn't really need most of them to be honest. but its quite nice to have them. i sold off or gave away 10-15 or so.

i have tried a few different 8k stones and the shapton pro is my fav (so thats the one i kept). the 8k pro is a really good stone. my favorite high grit stone that i have tried. it just feels really nice. and it dont clog as fast as 12k's. the shapton pro 8k is also very fast, much much faster than one might first think. its pretty seamless after a 1k. 

melon super....


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## inferno (May 15, 2020)

daveb said:


> For a gyuto, friends/family knife, house knife, I use the SP1000 then the SP2000 and I'm done. The SP2000 leaves them nicely finished. It's a perfect combo for your friends Shun. The SP5000 doesn't add anything to most knives.



this combo is inferno approved!

i use this combo for almost all customer knives. one coarse, one fine. done. 
mine seems to be permanently attached to each other somehow.


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## Southpaw (May 15, 2020)

Honestly I feel like the 1,000 is too low for just sharpening a white steel. I’m going to invest in the 2K and combine it with my suehero 5k. Blue steel and sg2 work okay for the 1,000 but the white steel it works too fast and makes me nervous in case I roll the edge.


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## inferno (May 15, 2020)

no steel work ok with the 1k imo. its a saw. a fine saw, but its still a saw. 2k then we start talking. at 3k its good enough for personal use and at 4k its as good as its gonna get practically. above 4k is for carbon only, usually, imo. i like my 8 and 12k though.  not gonna give them up.


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## coffeelover191919 (May 16, 2020)

so i've been sharpening Wusthofs and Shun VGMax knives with my Shapton 1k. Comes out ok. Then i go to 5k. 

Would it have been more beneficial to spend 10 minutes on a Shapton 2k stone after the 1k? Aren't they too close?


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## bahamaroot (May 16, 2020)

Going to 5k on a Wusthof is WAY overkill. Don't take them past your 2k.


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## Carl Kotte (May 16, 2020)

coffeelover191919 said:


> Would it have been more beneficial to spend 10 minutes on a Shapton 2k stone after the 1k? Aren't they too close?


It makes a difference, that’s for sure. One shouldn’t be too hung up on those grit numbers (they tend to differ between brands).
But 10 minutes after the 1k stone sounds like a lot. You don’t need to raise a burr again on the 2k stone. A few strokes on each side should be enough to refine the edge.


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## panda (May 16, 2020)

Wusthoffs only need 500 grit, not even 1k.


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## M1k3 (May 16, 2020)

panda said:


> Wusthoffs only need 500 grit, not even 1k.


My coworkers are fine straight off a fine India  they use messermeister, shun Ken onion, wusthof pro, kiwi and calphalon too...


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## Nemo (May 16, 2020)

No. No you don't.

Unless you want to shave with the knives. Then you should probably get an 8k, 12k and sub-micron diamond compounds for stropping.


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## Helmore (May 16, 2020)

inferno said:


> i like my 8 and 12k though.  not gonna give them up.


What do you use them for? I can't imagine them being particularly useful for kitchen knives.


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## Benuser (May 16, 2020)

I have a Naniwa Junpaku 8k 'Snow-white'. Just for fun with very simple carbons. Got it for little money. Otherwise, no need for such a refinement with double bevelled blades that have board contact.


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## daveb (May 16, 2020)

Southpaw said:


> Honestly I feel like the 1,000 is too low for just sharpening a white steel. I’m going to invest in the 2K and combine it with my suehero 5k. Blue steel and sg2 work okay for the 1,000 but the white steel it works too fast and makes me nervous in case I roll the edge.





inferno said:


> no steel work ok with the 1k imo. its a saw. a fine saw, but its still a saw. 2k then we start talking. at 3k its good enough for personal use and at 4k its as good as its gonna get practically. above 4k is for carbon only, usually, imo. i like my 8 and 12k though.  not gonna give them up.



The SP1000 will raise a burr in less time than it takes to type this - even on abrasion resistant Germans. Great for OP (other people) knives. My usual regimen for my own knives is Gesshin 2K then G4K or G6K. If I need to "downshift" to get a burr going I'll grab the SP1000 for a minute.


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## panda (May 16, 2020)

Southpaw said:


> Honestly I feel like the 1,000 is too low for just sharpening a white steel. I’m going to invest in the 2K and combine it with my suehero 5k. Blue steel and sg2 work okay for the 1,000 but the white steel it works too fast and makes me nervous in case I roll the edge.


I only take hiromoto white2 honyaki to 1k


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## Ruso (May 16, 2020)

daveb said:


> The SP1000 will raise a burr in less time than it takes to type this - even on abrasion resistant Germans. Great for OP (other people) knives. My usual regimen for my own knives is Gesshin 2K then G4K or G6K. If I need to "downshift" to get a burr going I'll grab the SP1000 for a minute.


Thats why I like SP1000 its super fast and not unpleasant to use. And its SnG -ready when you need it.


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## panda (May 16, 2020)

Messermeisters are pretty good


M1k3 said:


> My coworkers are fine straight off a fine India  they use messermeister, shun Ken onion, wusthof pro, kiwi and calphalon too...


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## M1k3 (May 16, 2020)

Messermeister/F. Dick > Wusthof non-Pro > Vnox > kiwi > calphalon > Mercer (they're Chef Coats are pretty good for how cheap they are though).

Change my mind.


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## daveb (May 16, 2020)

Mercer deserves a lower place on the list


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## M1k3 (May 16, 2020)

daveb said:


> Mercer deserves a lower place on the list


Hahaha!


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## coffeelover191919 (May 16, 2020)

Got a lot of people telling 5k is useless on kitchen knives. I plan to sharpen my new Yoshihiro AS 210 gyuto in a couple of weeks after some usage. What would people progress to after raising a burr on both sides with the Shapton 1000? You don't know how many recommendations for a 1k + 5k stone I got from reading here and on reddit. They said to just use the 5k and a strop to maintain sharpness in between sharpenings


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## kayman67 (May 16, 2020)

Well, not all 5k are the same, not everyone sees higher grits the same. 

Still, 5-6k for carbon knives is not uncommon around here and 2-3k for stainless. That's pretty much on par with the Japanese philosophy.


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## daveb (May 16, 2020)

5K is not useless, but it can be excessive. If shopping stones, I would not advise buying a 5K up front. But if you already have one, no sense in not using it. Adding a SP2000 would be a useful addition to your lineup.


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## Helmore (May 16, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> Still, 5-6k for carbon knives is not uncommon around here and 2-3k for stainless. That's pretty much on par with the Japanese philosophy.


No love for the 4k stones? Those poor 4k stones, all neglected.


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## kayman67 (May 16, 2020)

I do want to try the Morihei 4k.


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## dafox (May 16, 2020)

Helmore said:


> No love for the 4k stones? Those poor 4k stones, all neglected.


I take Talamura R2 to 4000, Shapton glass.


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## OnionSlicer (May 16, 2020)

Came into this thread to read some opinions, left with a shapton pro 2k on order. Nowhere is safe on these forums.


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## panda (May 17, 2020)

Helmore said:


> No love for the 4k stones? Those poor 4k stones, all neglected.


i just ordered the classic gesshin 4k soaker


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## OnionSlicer (May 21, 2020)

Received my SP2k and ran a few stainless knives through it: a victorinox, then a MAC, then a Ginga.

I would not have guessed that it could put on such a capable edge and feel so nice from simply interpolating between SP1k and SP5k. Gonna finish all stainless blades on it for a few months and see how it goes!


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## inferno (May 26, 2020)

Helmore said:


> What do you use them for? I can't imagine them being particularly useful for kitchen knives.



they are for special occasions. 

i have found that well they make things sharper than 4 that is my regular stopping point. some carbons start hesitating on tomatos on the 8k though. but that goes away at 12k.

took a yoshikane semi ss to 12k too. its was really nice. felt dangerous to handle but still nice.


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## inferno (May 26, 2020)

OnionSlicer said:


> Received my SP2k and ran a few stainless knives through it: a victorinox, then a MAC, then a Ginga.
> 
> I would not have guessed that it could put on such a capable edge and feel so nice from simply interpolating between SP1k and SP5k. Gonna finish all stainless blades on it for a few months and see how it goes!



welcome to the club.


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## inferno (May 26, 2020)

had a talk with one of my coworkers the other day about stones and knives and he told me he put some 1k edges on a few knives but he just dont get it. a 3k or 5k edge will cut everything a 1k will, but better. 

and i kinda agree. so whats the f-ing point really?


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## M1k3 (May 26, 2020)

Butchery of fatty meats.


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## Carl Kotte (May 26, 2020)

@inferno Does the bite come back at 12k? Or is it something else that Does it?


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## Benuser (May 26, 2020)

Helmore said:


> No love for the 4k stones? Those poor 4k stones, all neglected.


The Chosera / Naniwa 3k is a 4k, in fact, and gets a lot of love I'd say.


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## inferno (May 26, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @inferno Does the bite come back at 12k? Or is it something else that Does it?



i dont know. all i know its that the blades stop "hesitating" on bell peppers, chilis, tomatos etc.

you know when the knife moves maybe 1-10mm and then slides right through, i see that on the 8k shappro. but on the 12k its gone again. and below 8k like the glass 6k and 4k, there is none, 0, hesitation. just like the 12k.

i have no good explanation but i have made this observation.


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## Carl Kotte (May 26, 2020)

inferno said:


> i dont know. all i know its that the blades stop "hesitating" on bell peppers, chilis, tomatos etc.
> 
> you know when the knife moves maybe 1-10mm and then slides right through, i see that on the 8k shappro. but on the 12k its gone again. and below 8k like the glass 6k and 4k, there is none, 0, hesitation. just like the 12k.
> 
> i have no good explanation but i have made this observation.


Cool! That’s interesting. When you’ve observed this, have you gone from 8k to 12k or have you used another progression?


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## lemeneid (May 26, 2020)

Guess I am one of the few people who take their knives to the absolute limit when it comes to sharpening. The crazy sharpness is absolutely addictive, but more importantly, I sharpen only on higher grits to conserve more metal compared to a coarser stone.

Used to sharpen up to a 3k when I started out, but quickly realised the secondary bevel forming extremely quickly and needed to be thinned more often. When I switched to higher grits on my later knives, they never experienced this problem.


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## Dendrobatez (May 27, 2020)

An 8k isn't needed, I'm not saying dont get one if you want one but I'd only get the higher grits if you find a good deal or the rest of your kit is full. I have stones to 16k but I stop at 3-5k on everything and only bring out the higher grits if I'm finishing up bevel work. Sharpening and stopping properly will give you a great edge.


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## Helmore (May 27, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Guess I am one of the few people who take their knives to the absolute limit when it comes to sharpening. The crazy sharpness is absolutely addictive, but more importantly, I sharpen only on higher grits to conserve more metal compared to a coarser stone.
> 
> Used to sharpen up to a 3k when I started out, but quickly realised the secondary bevel forming extremely quickly and needed to be thinned more often. When I switched to higher grits on my later knives, they never experienced this problem.


What do you consider to be "the absolute limit" here? Also, what's your experience here between smooth edges and toothy edged? Any skipping on tomato skin? 
I'm interested in people's opinions on high grit stones for kitchen knives. Since most people seem to be in the 3-5k camp here, a different opinion is always nice to hear.


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## kayman67 (May 27, 2020)

Some time ago there was a test done and proved that even with softer alloy, high grit edges do improve retention by a good amount. 
That skipping on tomatoes skin associated by default is just a myth, really. Thing was, though, as with every similar test, it just took a good amount of work and very little room for errors. So, while possible, most likely it's not something most people are willing to do. Thus, a lower sweet spot, easier to reach and maintain.


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## Carl Kotte (May 27, 2020)

@kayman67 That’s interesting! What study are you referring to? Sounds like a good read.


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## lemeneid (May 27, 2020)

Helmore said:


> What do you consider to be "the absolute limit" here? Also, what's your experience here between smooth edges and toothy edged? Any skipping on tomato skin?
> I'm interested in people's opinions on high grit stones for kitchen knives. Since most people seem to be in the 3-5k camp here, a different opinion is always nice to hear.


I use natural stones after 1k so absolute limit is as fine a stone I get which at this point is what I assume is equivalent to 16-18k grit synthetic. No problems with tomatoes or waxy foods.

But I do have to preface this, I thin the knife once to set a good angle and bevel first to make it easy to sharpen thereafter. If you don't do this, it just does not work.


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## kayman67 (May 27, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @kayman67 That’s interesting! What study are you refering to? Sounds like a good read.


Not sure I can still find it or even if it's possible. Has been a while. 
But such debates were rather normal within the pocket knife community and I guess lately (again, "lately" means a few years) the consensus was that the technique and the nature of the abrasive were more important than the grit itself. 
From my testing routines, I always found it easier to get a shaving edge, even at very low grits, with a diamond plate, than a similar SiC stone. This reminds me. I stumbled upon the CBN testing last year again. I will try to find that as well.


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## Carl Kotte (May 27, 2020)

@kayman67 Thanks a lot! That would be great (if it’s not too bothersome). I wouldn’t be surprised if it had to do with technique and consistency as so much else in this world. I struggle to find any use for my rika 5k and sg 8k since the edges don’t have enough bite for my taste, or because they don’t hold up well. But, as said, it wouldn’t surprise me if that estimation has to do with my technique.


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## kayman67 (May 27, 2020)

Well, about consistency at least, there's a topic around here as well. I'll try to find that a bit later. Because what that fixed system did was in fact to prove that consistency and pressure play a huge part, while going as high as possible not being the real issue. If I remember right, a couple of guys here experienced a significant improvement in usage and maintenance routine change accordingly.


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## M1k3 (May 27, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> Well, about consistency at least, there's a topic around here as well. I'll try to find that a bit later. Because what that fixed system did was in fact to prove that consistency and pressure play a huge part, while going as high as possible not being the real issue. If I remember right, a couple of guys here experienced a significant improvement in usage and maintenance routine change accordingly.


I'm interested in those tests.

Are you talking about the thread that @suntravel showed the fancy jig?


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## kayman67 (May 27, 2020)

Yes, yes, those, but I remember very well a post about a chef's experience that I just can't find exactly. I'm not sure if it was in them or another thread, but regarding the same system and the use of some very high grit stones. I've been searching a bit, but no luck.


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## M1k3 (May 27, 2020)

I think that was his friend and he had all his stuff deleted. Would use a Dick Micro to maintain the edge also?


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## kayman67 (May 27, 2020)

I didn't know that. I was looking as good as I could and still nothing.


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## kayman67 (May 28, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> @kayman67 That’s interesting! What study are you referring to? Sounds like a good read.



Sorry, can't seem to find them for some reason. Google is getting worse at returning results or I don't know. 

But I did manage to find a nice read for you, that should be interesting enough on its own. 








Knife Deburring 6th edition


6th edition.Our fundamental research into the knife edge that changed the mindset of the international sharpening community.Our knife sharpening computer software and gadgets are used in 64 countries, as of today.



books.google.com





Now, keep in mind that everything is subject to some criticism.


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## Carl Kotte (May 28, 2020)

@kayman67 Thanks a lot! I really appreciate it!


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## Benuser (May 28, 2020)

Wasn't it by chance Bogdan's jig, here from post no. 22:





Best Guided system for new guy


Hey. Sorry I posted about guides, but looking at reviews, some can scratch and also damage the stone. I seen the wedges which seem a little better, but yo are left free handing one you have left the wedge. What other guided cheap systems are there so I can get the hang of free handing? Thanks all




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## kayman67 (May 28, 2020)

Looks like some content was deleted. I've read as many topics I could find and nothing. I didn't know that some parts were removed.


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## inferno (May 28, 2020)

the easiest solution is to simply have all grits at hand. because sooner or later you gonna need that 8k or 12k or 4k. or 6k. and then its much better to already have them, than have to buy them. pro tip!


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## Nemo (May 28, 2020)

Maybe this thread?






Advantage Sharpening systems vs Benchstones?


I am a Benchstone collector and pro user (as a chef). Sharpening for years now, sharpened hundrets of knifes that way (for friends, workingmates and even for pro chefs for money), and got a little contest with a russian guy, who sharpened one of my selfmades with a custom system, that offered...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## kayman67 (May 28, 2020)

That's a great find. Didn't know about it. It's before my time here.


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## Nemo (May 28, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> That's a great find. Didn't know about it. It's before my time here.


TLDR: Couple of members who are no longer on the forums (Suntravel and Sharpchef, both from Germany IIRC) were very keen on the Bogdan system. Believed that being able to control pressure with fine stones was crucial to extended edge retention. Could be right. Doesn't really matter much to me in home use. My knife dulls -》 I sharpen it. Maybe useful in a pro environment if true, though. Out of interest, one day I may get a hold of one to try for myself. Actually I will probably never find the time....


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## M1k3 (May 28, 2020)

Sharpchef! He's the one I was thinking of. Guess he didn't get everything removed..


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## kayman67 (May 28, 2020)

I guess something I know nothing about, got out of control. 

Indeed it is well praised in the German community, but the bigger pool of knowledge would be in Russian.


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## Benuser (May 29, 2020)

Nemo said:


> TLDR: Couple of members who are no longer on the forums (Suntravel and Sharpchef, both from Germany IIRC) were very keen on the Bogdan system. Believed that being able to control pressure with fine stones was crucial to extended edge retention. Could be right. Doesn't really matter much to me in home use. My knife dulls -》 I sharpen it. Maybe useful in a pro environment if true, though. Out of interest, one day I may get a hold of one to try for myself. Actually I will probably never find the time....


Was always wondering about that very precisely polished and deburred edge being maintained with the Dick Micro, where according to those guys the exact angle didn't matter.


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## KingShapton (May 29, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> Indeed it is well praised in the German community, but the bigger pool of knowledge would be in Russian.


not in the entire German community, even if some advocates of the Bogdan system suggest this impression.


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## kayman67 (May 29, 2020)

I know about some problems and improvements over time.


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## coffeelover191919 (May 30, 2020)

So i've received some feedback that the shapton 2k would be good to accompany my Shapton 1k, 5k, and leather strop (bare and green compound). What do you guys think?


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## dafox (May 30, 2020)

WTS - Shapton 1k, 5k and 8k stones


I have 3 Shapton stones that I'd like to sell - bought them as I was planning on giving my Naniwa stones to my brother so he could learn to sharpen but that may not be happening. Condition: These are really close to brand new as I've only used them for a demo (very few dry, light strokes)...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## daveb (May 30, 2020)

coffeelover191919 said:


> So i've received some feedback that the shapton 2k would be good to accompany my Shapton 1k, 5k, and leather strop (bare and green compound). What do you guys think?



You've gotten that feedback here among other places. A search will provide more of the same. We agree with ourselves.


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## Ruso (May 30, 2020)

coffeelover191919 said:


> So i've received some feedback that the shapton 2k would be good to accompany my Shapton 1k, 5k, and leather strop (bare and green compound). What do you guys think?



Skip the 2K, feels kind of redundant if you already have 1K. Instead of 5K get a 4K SG.


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## inferno (May 31, 2020)

KingShapton said:


> not in the entire German community, even if some advocates of the Bogdan system suggest this impression.



i had to look up the bogdan system on youtube. it appears i would be able to sharpen several knives on regular stones hand held before that thing is even setup. 

i think this is the main problem with all guided systems. the setup time is so long so you are usually already done with stones when you start sharpening on the systems. its the same with the tormek too imo.


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## M1k3 (May 31, 2020)

I guess if you had area where you could leave it setup would help. Otherwise freehand is faster to get to business.


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## Jmz76 (Jun 2, 2020)

Knowing it might not do much I will still always finish on a 5k


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