# Japanese veggie cutting techniques: where to start



## Nemo (Jul 2, 2017)

I'm a home cook, not a pro. I'm interested in learning some Japanese vegetable cutting techniques.

Which techniques should I be aware of? Where do I start? Where do I learn more? Which knife to use?

Thanks everyone.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 2, 2017)

Do you mean techniques on cutting Japanese vegetables or Japanese techniques on cutting vegetables and general?

carbon steel is mandatory. Then you have to decide on what style of knife you are most comfortable with ,along with what you intend to use it on.

personally I would recommend chinese-style cleaver large and thin.

Take a look at SUIEN VC cleaver, SUGIMOTO #6 , and CCK 1103
but I'm addicted to Chinese Cleavers so my opinion is biased.
it's good to collect people's opinion so you can make an educated decision. but that doesn't excuse the role that personal preference plays which is huge.
maybe you prefer a SANTOKU, GYUTO, or DEBA?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jul 2, 2017)

An excellent book on the subject is _Japanese Kitchen Knives: Essential Techniques and Recipes_. It covers the use of the three main Japanese knives, the deba, the usuba, and the yanagiba. 

Sadly, it's not available through Amazon.com.au, only at Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1568364903/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Nemo (Jul 2, 2017)

WOK-a-holic said:


> Do you mean techniques on cutting Japanese vegetables or Japanese techniques on cutting vegetables and general?
> 
> carbon steel is mandatory. Then you have to decide on what style of knife you are most comfortable with, along with what you intend to use it on.
> 
> personally I would recommend chinese-style cleaver large and thin but that doesn't excuse the role that personal preference plays which is huge. Maybe you prefer a SANTOKU, GYUTO, or DEBA?



Thanks Wok.

I was thinking more of option 2.

Why carbon? Because of the sharpness? How about semi stainless or pm stainless (just asking out of curiosity- most of my knives are carbon and I love them). Is single bevel better again?

I have lots of gyutos snd a few other knife styles but I'm interested to try new knife styles if appropriate.


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## ThEoRy (Jul 2, 2017)

Again, depends on what you are cutting and how. Usuba is for vegetables with the understanding of how to use it and on what. For example, katsuramuki on cucumber or daikon. Push cutting scallions or chives thinly. Things like that. If you have no need for katsuramuki then maybe a nakiri will do fine for you.


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## Nemo (Jul 3, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> Again, depends on what you are cutting and how. Usuba is for vegetables with the understanding of how to use it and on what. For example, katsuramuki on cucumber or daikon. Push cutting scallions or chives thinly. Things like that. If you have no need for katsuramuki then maybe a nakiri will do fine for you.



Thanks Rick.

I'm a home cook, so I have no NEED for katsuramuki but I'd still like to learn if that makes sense.

I read that it takes quite a bit of practice to do katsuramuki at all, let alone well. I tried with a nakiri yesterday and got out a couple of 10-15cm strips which were OK in parts but far from uniformly translucently thin. I've become kind of interested in usuba, so might be a reason to try one out. I suspect that there'll be much more improvement due to practice than due to the knife though.


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## Nemo (Jul 3, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> An excellent book on the subject is _Japanese Kitchen Knives: Essential Techniques and Recipes_. It covers the use of the three main Japanese knives, the deba, the usuba, and the yanagiba.
> 
> Sadly, it's not available through Amazon.com.au, only at Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1568364903/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



Thanks Rick.

I'll have a look at it.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 3, 2017)

NEMO 
concerning carbon steel, yes because of sharpness ,and Edge retention I find Superior.
SUGIMOTO #6 is awesome if you can afford it, the carbon steel they use made from Pure Japanese ore is very high quality.not to mention the knife makers at SUGIMOTO are highly skilled craftsman.

single bevel might have better Edge retention, (probably marginal if any difference) and some people say they can achieve a higher level of sharpness.but I haven't seen any proof of that to be true ,just hearsay.
and concerning things like a 70/30 grind supposed to have better Edge retention. preference has a lot to do with it. my SUIEN vc cleaver came with a 70/30 grind but after multiple sharpenings I have turned it into a 50/50. and I can get it sharper then it came out of the box(which was scary Sharp)


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 3, 2017)

NEMO, 
earlier when you said you were thinking option 2.

I thought that meant Sigmmoto # 6 because it was the second knife that I had mentioned ,but then I noticed on your post you had remove some of the content of my quote.

what was option 2 ?


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## Nemo (Jul 3, 2017)

Sorry for any confusion. I meant Japanese cutting techniques rather than cutting Japanese vegetables.


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## JBroida (Jul 3, 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDgLV2bW_MlCtt2LOAYJ5fhw5N7eakBYx


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## Nemo (Jul 3, 2017)

Thanks Jon. I remember seeing them and thinking I must get back to them but had copletely forgotten about them in the meantime. If they are anything like your sharpening vids, they'll be brilliant.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 3, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Sorry for any confusion. I meant Japanese cutting techniques rather than cutting Japanese vegetables.



Not sure about all the Japanese cutting techniques .somethings are universal (i.e. push cut ,chopping ect.)
others are similar to Chinese knife techniques. 
when it comes to thing's like Japanese sushi preparation knife skills are paramount. 
I have no such experience....

check out youtube, there is lots of great cooking/ kife skill videos ,including Japanese. 
I recently watched a youtube video about Japanese sword making .very interesting.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jul 3, 2017)

@Nemo the bigger problem is keeping a constant supply of fresh radish for regular practice - sometimes all that is available is odd shaped and/or expensive ... and indeed, one can't use up so much radish ... and once you cut some off, the rest dries up terribly quickly (clingfilm helps some but not that much ... must try oiling the cut surface...)... and old, dry and/or woody radish is a nightmare for that technique


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## Nemo (Jul 3, 2017)

Good point Life.

Can one use cucumber or carrot? I guess cucumber being soft is easier, carrot more difficult? How about practicing on all of those excess zucchinis in summer?


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Jul 3, 2017)

I certainly don't need a spiralizer for the zucchini, even with my horrible usuba skills 

Cucumber is so low yield... can't do much with the core... 

I sometimes do papaya for som tam that way - the result is usually great, but it is nerve wracking 

A problem I am hitting with thicker cuts/harder veg is that pinch finger and veg ribbon collide...


...


Some will think I'm high as a kite again, but I still think one of the secrets about kataba knives is that they simulate mouthfeel by their feedback, and that debas are not at all useless with veg.


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## Nemo (Jul 3, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback Life.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 3, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Good point Life.
> 
> Can one use cucumber or carrot? I guess cucumber being soft is easier, carrot more difficult? How about practicing on all of those excess zucchinis in summer?



onions, zucchini ,carrots, celery , mushrooms, are some of my favorite thing's to chop up ,also practicing with such items will help build your experience/skill level
.....cilantro and especially Italian parsley (flat /broad leaf ) is a good test of blade sharpness and knife skills


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## Nemo (Jul 3, 2017)

WOK-a-holic said:


> onions, zucchini ,carrots, celery , mushrooms, are some of my favorite thing's to chop up ,also practicing with such items will help build your experience/skill level
> .....cilantro and especially Italian parsley (flat /broad leaf ) is a good test of blade sharpness and knife skills



Agreed. I also like finely diced eggplant (the kids won't eat it unless I hide it  ). A great test of sharpness and food release.


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## OliverNuther (Jul 5, 2017)

Nemo, you sure you're not just trying to justify another knife:spankarse: ?

It sounds suspiciously like you're test driving reasons to tell the wife why you need a Nakiri/usuba:doublethumbsup:

It's ok, we're here to help.


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## Nemo (Jul 5, 2017)

OliverNuther said:


> Nemo, you sure you're not just trying to justify another knife:spankarse: ?
> 
> It sounds suspiciously like you're test driving reasons to tell the wife why you need a Nakiri/usuba:doublethumbsup:
> 
> It's ok, we're here to help.



Shhhh!!! You can't say that! 

I'm always thinking of reasons to justify another knife. Aren't you?

Edit: I have a nakiri but I'm sure that this calls for an usuba doesn't it?


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 5, 2017)

NEMO,
I live in Oregon and they recently upped can /bottle deposit to 10 cents ,
I have an old truck that doesn't run and I'm just stockpiling all of my beer cans in the back .
once the truck is full I'm going to cash them in at recycle center,
then I'm going to buy a CCK 1103 :biggrin:,then when my wife asks me why did I buy a another knife?
then I'll tell her I recycled cans to get the money....good for the environment and my knife collection


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## boomchakabowwow (Jul 6, 2017)

my friend married a japanese woman. over at the house she asked to help. (along with my friends Thai wife). those two grabbed whatever knife i had closest to them...both were Wustofs..and blazed thru the veggies. and cleaned shrimp fast! We were cooking thai food..and grilling random things. (mostly drinking)

i seriously dont think either lady even paused and looked at the knives. i had a Gyoto in the drawer they glazed over. i would agree my chinese mom would cut veggies in a certain pattern..on the bias usually. but i wouldnt call that Chinese style. i wonder if my friends wife thinks she cuts japanese style?


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## Nemo (Jul 6, 2017)

WOK-a-holic said:


> NEMO,
> I live in Oregon and they recently upped can /bottle deposit to 10 cents ,
> I have an old truck that doesn't run and I'm just stockpiling all of my beer cans in the back .
> once the truck is full I'm going to cash them in at recycle center,
> ...



That's a pretty dedicated effort (to get through that much beer so that you can buy a cleaver)


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## Nemo (Jul 6, 2017)

boomchakabowwow said:


> my friend married a japanese woman. over at the house she asked to help. (along with my friends Thai wife). those two grabbed whatever knife i had closest to them...both were Wustofs..and blazed thru the veggies. and cleaned shrimp fast! We were cooking thai food..and grilling random things. (mostly drinking)
> 
> i seriously dont think either lady even paused and looked at the knives. i had a Gyoto in the drawer they glazed over. i would agree my chinese mom would cut veggies in a certain pattern..on the bias usually. but i wouldnt call that Chinese style. i wonder if my friends wife thinks she cuts japanese style?



Yeah, I see your point. I suspect that techniques like (and based on) katsuramuki are probably not generally performed by those who aren't in the insustry.


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## OliverNuther (Jul 7, 2017)

Nemo said:


> I'm always thinking of reasons to justify another knife. Aren't you?



Guilty as charged.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 20, 2017)

Nemo said:


> That's a pretty dedicated effort (to get through that much beer so that you can buy a cleaver)



I drink lots of beer .
I could buy a clever anyways . It would be nice if the beer cans pay for at least part of the cleaver, (less likely my wife gets upset).
It would also make me feel like I bought a knife on sale . :biggrin:


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