# PayPal Vs Credit card



## maxim (Aug 22, 2012)

I was researching other payment possibilities to my web store and it seems like PayPal is one of most expensive on fees and currency conversion.
What do you guys use most and why ?? If there is only Credit card payments available is it ok, or you like PayPal most ?


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## apicius9 (Aug 22, 2012)

Paypal must have an excellent research department. Their fees are high enough to annoy the heck out of me, but JUST within the limit of what I can tolerate in exchange for the convenience. So, I grudgingly keep using it, thinking the time I would need to research a better option may be more than the fees I pay them. But it will be worse for you with a more international customer base and the currency conversion rates. 

Stefan


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## maxim (Aug 22, 2012)

Last i checked with currency conversion rates i pay approx 10 % to PayPal


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## Twistington (Aug 22, 2012)

10%!? :O Why don't people just mail you the money in an envelope instead? 

But how about bank transaction, that should be a more fair excange rate?


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## maxim (Aug 22, 2012)

Yeah, bank transaction is very cheap but it have its limitations. Not so safe, takes 2 days to transfer


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## apicius9 (Aug 22, 2012)

maxim said:


> Yeah, bank transaction is very cheap but it have its limitations. Not so safe, takes 2 days to transfer



It's also much easier to do bank transfers in Europe. The US banks are approx. 20 years behind... I still need to write checks here which I hadn't done since the 80s in Europe... An international transfer with my house bank costs me $50 in fees - not something I want to do often. 

Stefan


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## schanop (Aug 22, 2012)

From AU, I've found paypal to be quite good for me buying. Exchange rate is not as good as bank credit card, but there is no international transfer fee when using bank cash account with paypal, a touch cheaper in the end.


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## stevenStefano (Aug 22, 2012)

I prefer Paypal because I don't have a credit card, only a debit card. So for example I can't buy apps for my phone because Android only accepts credit cards which is maddening


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## maxim (Aug 22, 2012)

I hate to set prices up just because of some stupid fees, but it seems like i have to  
On the plus side PayPal have super nice security for my costumers and transaction is very easy. But i have to fins solution for better currency conversion.


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## schanop (Aug 22, 2012)

Do you have to convert from EUR to Danish Krone?


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## maxim (Aug 22, 2012)

Yep, that is the biggest Dealbreaker


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## schanop (Aug 22, 2012)

One option is to set a price in Danish Krone  then we all pay one conversion, rather than two, for non EU residence, of course.


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## maxim (Aug 22, 2012)

Yes that is actually good idea, i may consider to change my store to Danish krone :groucho:


Let me know guys what you think about that ??


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## 99Limited (Aug 22, 2012)

Well, if I had a retail business, brick and mortar or online, I'd price all my products to include any credit card or Paypal fees. Who actually thinks "Free Shipping" is actually free.


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## maxim (Aug 22, 2012)

Yea we do that, but currency conversion change like every day at PayPal so i cant change prices every day.


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## Cutty Sharp (Aug 22, 2012)

Maybe one or two people don't have credit cards, but I can't imagine that's common. Maybe it's possible to set up PayPal accounts without a credit card in some places, but in 2 countries I've lived in you need a credit card for PayPal. No direct debiting from your bank account. According to the above, that's not true in the UK. But I've usually assumed people using PayPal already have cards. So - I don't know for sure, but... - I'd guess you wouldn't lose much custom switching to credit card payments. Or why not accept both PayPal and credit cards?

Incidentally, my wife exports clothing via the internet and also complains about PayPal - the fees and also a few customers who, despite no wrongdoing on my wife's part, have made 'claims' against her, freezing up her account. She also accepts bank transfers and will collect WesternUnion transfers. 

I wouldn't want to buy from you via bank transfer, though, Maxim. Bank transfer fees for me from Korea aren't as high as the guy above, but it'd still cost me $20.


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## maxim (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks guys for your replies  
I decided to kip PayPal only as credit card company want a lot of fees also so i will only get more fees with 2 options :running:

But i have changed my currency now to Danish Krone, you can still choose US or Euro for product and basked view but checkout will be in DKK 

Thanks again !


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## Cutty Sharp (Aug 22, 2012)

Cool. More fun to deal in a new currency, for me. The USD is so passé.


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## JBroida (Aug 22, 2012)

yeah... be careful with paypal... their seller protection is a joke and they always side with the customer even when you've done nothing wrong or when its a scam. I wish i could use something other than them, but in a lot of ways, they make my life much easier. I do use google payments sometimes though.


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## tkern (Aug 22, 2012)

I think most people here (me included) use paypal because of the convenience but I didn't know it was such a hassle to the vendor. Next time I order from someone I'll ask what method they prefer.


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## SameGuy (Aug 22, 2012)

Yeah, one of the best vendors for parts and accessories for m car is in Berlin, and not only does he have to charge DHL's exorbitant prices for their awful shipping -- for example, 180 for four 16" alloy wheels, which took about three weeks for one pair to arrive and another week to get the second pair -- but he chooses to charge 5.5% Paypal fees for those who prefer Paypal over interbank transfer.

Maksim, if you put prices in DKR the exchange rate will fall on the customer instead of you. Most international vendors do business this way. Example, if you book a hotel room online, the hotel chain prices in the currency of the country in which the hotel is located, and gives a representative price in your currency of choice -- but the fine print advises that the final amount on your credit card will depend on your bank's exchange rate when the transaction is posted and processed.


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## Cutty Sharp (Aug 22, 2012)

'Awful'? We've never had any probs with DHL. Maxim uses them too, methinks.


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## maxim (Aug 22, 2012)

Yeah i am very happy with DHL they pricing is very reasonable but companies have to negotiate good prices with them they listing prices is crazy ! 
And they also have many different product i use express service only


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## Cutty Sharp (Aug 22, 2012)

My wife has gone through the same thing - she uses DHL, and has had to negotiate.


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## SameGuy (Aug 22, 2012)

It's possible DHL is better from elsewhere, but from Germany -- DHL's home country -- it's awful, no retraction. Royal Mail from the UK through the USPS or Canada Post costs a tiny fraction, yet gets to Canada or the US in a fraction of the time, without damage. Packages from Germany usually come via DHL through the USPS or Canada Post, take an age to get here, and are often damaged.


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## 99Limited (Aug 22, 2012)

When I order from Maxim, the packages go from Denmark to Germany to the USA and I'll have it within 2 days with zero damage. Maybe it's just the luck of the draw.


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## schanop (Aug 22, 2012)

DHL has been behaving well for the delivery time to AU. Had one incidence where AU DHL wanted to charge me custom fee for about fifty bucks. Many people seem to think that it was AU DHL scam.


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## maxim (Aug 23, 2012)

Nehh not luck every time i ship with DHL they are very fast. I think its depends on how you ship with them. I am also now started to receive packages from Japan with DHL too and its faster then EMS


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## Cutty Sharp (Aug 23, 2012)

Yup, I've used DHL going between several countries in Asian, Europe, Tunisia and Canada. All good. Same with my wife - from Indonesia to Europe, Nigeria, the US, Trinidad, Singapore...


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## Eamon Burke (Aug 23, 2012)

Ain't no DHL around here anymore.

PayPal seems to have just cornered the market. It's HUGE that I can just invoice someone and they can pay pretty much however. Also, I have a card, so I can get money out of Paypal without paying a fee. But they do eat 3% of everything(which is the price I pay for being able to run a Global business out of a shoebox, so not so bad IMO), but their exchange rates are NOT cool. Not cool at all.


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## SameGuy (Aug 23, 2012)

DHL in Canada has been terrible, sorry to say. Transforce took over DHL Canada late last year, and they were hemorrhaging money. Transforce now operates DHL as Loomis Express and is turning things around -- according to my BIL, a general manager at Transforce who was assigned the DHL/Loomis project, they have turned a corner and are making money here. Perhaps things will get better, but given a choice of shippers, DHL would be at the bottom of my list based on past performance (and cost). A one kilo parcel about the size of two 300 mm yanagiba boxes stacked together was 59... and took almost *two weeks* to get from Berlin to Canada (and another three days to get to me once here). Meanwhile, I've sent a similar parcel back to Europe via FedEx Express... it cost $90, and arrived in two days.


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## Burl Source (Aug 23, 2012)

For me the convenience is worth the difference in fees.
Using paypal I am able to automate things so I can spend my time on things that are more productive.
I receive payment with paypal, then I ship the item purchased using paypal.
I get a discount on the shipping cost, I don't have to input the credit card or shipping info so typos and errors are eliminated.
Plus there is an ongoing log I can refer to if I need to track a package.
For me the savings in cost of labor (my time) greatly exceed the difference in fees.

I process about 100k a year through paypal and have never had a chargeback.
It might just be a different sort of customer. I have found knife people to be a friendly and honest bunch.


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## JBroida (Aug 23, 2012)

i dont know... i;ve had a few chargebacks and a few cases or fraud (all of the chargebacks were fraud)... some i was ok on and others i lost even though i had done everything correctly. Part of this is why we had been taking a break from international shippings (which i am now using DHL for... well, i will be as soon as i do a few test runs).


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## Burl Source (Aug 23, 2012)

I have had a few fraud cases where paypal suspected an unauthorized user.
What happened with me were the payment was put on hold pending investigation.
This took place within minutes of the unauthorized payment so nothing was shipped before the funds were cleared.


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## Cutty Sharp (Aug 24, 2012)

JBroida said:


> i dont know... i;ve had a few chargebacks and a few cases or fraud (all of the chargebacks were fraud)... some i was ok on and others i lost even though i had done everything correctly. Part of this is why we had been taking a break from international shippings (which i am now using DHL for... well, i will be as soon as i do a few test runs).



No problem if you need me to help. Yes, you can just try sending a few of your knives my way in Seoul. I'll play with 'em and send them back. DHL test. :biggrin:


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## dragonlord (Aug 25, 2012)

PayPal is open to buyer fraud due to their protection policies, and they will just swipe the money from your account in the event of a complaint (or put your account on hold). If you do a lot of business it may be worth looking at something backed by a bank (e.g. Worldpay which Is run by rbs) and thus covered by the laws that cover banks.


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## SameGuy (Aug 28, 2012)

https://twitter.com/davidlebovitz/status/240026535480934402


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## JBroida (Aug 28, 2012)

what about when the USPS delivers an express mail package significantly later than time stated to the wrong person in the wrong place, gets a signature from it (even though the signer is not the person listed on the box/label and in a different city), but wont do anything to correct the problem?


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## maxim (Aug 28, 2012)

Most of the problems with international shipping is actually customs, specially if you import from US to Europe. That what can delay your shipment. That guy is from Paris and shipment is from US i will bet that what his problem.


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## SameGuy (Aug 28, 2012)

OK, I know this thread wasn't about DHL. Maksim, may I repeat the relevant part of my post above, in case it got lost in the noise (that I created):



SameGuy said:


> Maksim, *if you put prices in DKR the exchange rate will fall on the customer instead of you*. Most international vendors do business this way. Example, if you book a hotel room online, the hotel chain prices in the currency of the country in which the hotel is located, and gives a representative price in your currency of choice -- but the fine print advises that the final amount on your credit card will depend on your bank's exchange rate when the transaction is posted and processed.



Just to finish off my DHL rants: I don't think it has to do with French customs; I had similar problems with DHL "Express" packages from Germany to Canada. If DHL were on the ball, at least the tracking system would tell me where the package was stuck. No. All it said was something like "shipment accepted by DHL at ..." Another case, the entire time my friend was waiting for his alloy wheels for the right side of his car, the tracking said they were still in Germany, and repeated calls to DHL lead nowhere. How come I've never had "customs" issues with FedEx or the UK Royal Mail or La Poste française? And as I said, DHL charges an arm and a leg and a testicle for their non-service. Sorry, but if I'm paying $75 to send a one-kilo parcel the size of a baguette, it had better take less than a week -- never mind two weeks -- and should have full, detailed tracking. FedEx _guaranteed _me two-day service for just $15 more; a similar package from the UK by Royal Mail took a week (including stops at customs) and cost $12. 

I know I can't convince all of you, and some of you "have never heard of problems with DHL," but the Internet has plenty to say about how poor DHL's service really is, I'm not the only one. The David Lebovitz tweet was pure coincidence -- I follow him and his blog -- and it appeared just a few days after my initial post in this thread. Thanks, but given a choice, DHL will remain at the very bottom of my list of shipping companies.


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## SameGuy (Aug 28, 2012)

Cutty Sharp said:


> My wife has gone through the same thing - she uses DHL, and has had to negotiate.


Again, why should one have to "negotiate" with a courier company? I don't get it. I walk up to the counter at FedEx, they weigh my shipment, and show me a few prices for a few levels of service. To Europe, second day is fastest. Third day is about half the price -- but still guaranteed -- and there is another option with a flexible schedule that costs much less than second day, which can take anywhere from two days (London, Paris) to a week (small towns far from major centers). The tracking system is very detailed the entire way. When the tracking for a small gift to my aunt and uncle in Liverpool said, "Out for delivery," at 3:00 am Montreal time the second day after I sent it -- less than 36 hours in transit -- it really was "out for delivery." They received it at 9:30 am and IMed me about it. All I did was tender it to FedEx and pay $16 for the third-tier service. No negotiations necessary.


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## maxim (Aug 28, 2012)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/8013-New-Valuta-in-Store Answer to the first 

About DHL if something similar happened to me with DHL i change in a hard beat, but it never did actually it takes from DK to NY 2 days max DK to California 4 days max
I did try many shipping companies and so fare DHL was the best for me, and from DK i can not comment from other countries 

I also just changed to DHL to get my packages from Japan and again super fast 2 or 3 days.

For the price it is cheaper then any regular posts i ever used not for small packages but around 1 kg and up.
you have to negotiate depend how many packages you ship i think its quite regular routine with All shipping companies i had to do it with Fedex Post Denmark and EMS i think its standard


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## SameGuy (Aug 28, 2012)

That is good information, thank you.

Also, I had not read the currency thread. Good move! I think your costs will drop quite a bit with this one small change, and it shouldn't affect sales from Euro countries, in my opinion.


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