# Shibata Kotetsu Love?



## BlueSteel (Oct 7, 2016)

Hi Folks,

I don't see a whole ton of posts on this forum about these excellent knives. All made from R2 powdered, sporting k-tips, and super-sharp right out of the box (makes sense as Shibata san is a master sharpener). 

I bought the 210 gyoto (my first step into higher-end J knives...graduating from Shun), and loved this one so much that I picked up the 270 sujihiki also...love this thing...closest thing to a badass sword in my house. :knight:

Anyone else a fan of these knives?

Cheers,
Blair


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## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2016)

I have the Ko-Bunka and it's my Go to knife for Garlic and Ginger ... although I regret not buying the regular Bunka instead!


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## BlueSteel (Oct 7, 2016)

alterwisser said:


> I have the Ko-Bunka and it's my Go to knife for Garlic and Ginger ... although I regret not buying the regular Bunka instead!



Cool. Yeah, the extra 4cm or so make the Bunka more like a great substitute for a santoku...meaner looking though!

Cheers,
Blair


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## idemhj (Oct 7, 2016)

BlueSteel said:


> Cool. Yeah, the extra 4cm or so make the Bunka more like a great substitute for a santoku...meaner looking though!
> 
> Cheers,
> Blair



I have the regular bunka and like it. One thing to notice, though, it has quite a lot of belly, so if you are usedd to a flat profile it may be a problem.


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## bennyprofane (Oct 7, 2016)

alterwisser said:


> I have the Ko-Bunka and it's my Go to knife for Garlic and Ginger ... although I regret not buying the regular Bunka instead!



+1 I have the regular Bunka and it's my favourite knife for pulverizing garlic. It takes a great edge very easily which lasts long.



idemhj said:


> I have the regular bunka and like it. One thing to notice, though, it has quite a lot of belly, so if you are usedd to a flat profile it may be a problem.









Is this considered a lot of belly? I always thought of it as a relative flat knife.


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## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2016)

bennyprofane said:


> +1 I have the regular Bunka and it's my favourite knife for pulverizing garlic. It takes a great edge very easily which lasts long.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I think it's super flat actually ...


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## foody518 (Oct 7, 2016)

I regret not springing for the 240mm gyuto but at $290 I know why I didn't. Would love to have it though, maybe next year


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## zetieum (Oct 7, 2016)

I have the 240mm. It is among-if not-the best knife of my set


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## Godslayer (Oct 7, 2016)

I have the 270 suji, its a beast, I think I may of found my mothers nakiri, 170 kotetsu bunka.


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## Marek07 (Oct 7, 2016)

idemhj said:


> I have the regular bunka and like it. One thing to notice, though, it has quite a lot of belly, so if you are usedd to a flat profile it may be a problem.



I've only had my bunka for a week so perhaps not an informed opinion but like @bennyprofane I don't find it has a lot of belly either. It's certainly not as flat as a nakiri but as I have been using santokus a lot recently, I find the belly quite restrained.

And in answer to the OP, I haven't used his other knives but I'm definitely a fan of my Takayuki Shibata Kotetsu bunka. We're going to get along just swimmingly. Very happy so far. :doublethumbsup:


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## Badgertooth (Oct 7, 2016)

I recall seeing a lukewarm thread about them here when they were new and not a tonne of love since. Undeterred I bought a petty and I love it so much. There is a bunka or gyuto in my future plans.


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## BlueSteel (Oct 7, 2016)

Godslayer said:


> I have the 270 suji, its a beast, I think I may of found my mothers nakiri, 170 kotetsu bunka.



+1 on that 270 suji!

While I have not tried the bunka, I have found that my 210 gyoto can be a bit weak on food release with wet veggies (like potato). I attribute that to the fairly smooth stainless finish (though I might be wrong). So I have some minor reservations about using a Kotetsu as a nakiri, as there may be other knives out there with better food release? But I defer to those who own the bunka, as I have not used that shape.

Cheers,
Blair


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## foody518 (Oct 7, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> I recall seeing a lukewarm thread about them here when they were new and not a tonne of love since. Undeterred I bought a petty and I love it so much. There is a bunka or gyuto in my future plans.



IMO go gyuto. I have the bunka and it's fun but makes me wish I'd just spent the $70 extra to get a much longer knife


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## bennyprofane (Oct 7, 2016)

foody518 said:


> IMO go gyuto. I have the bunka and it's fun but makes me wish I'd just spent the $70 extra to get a much longer knife



+1


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## Badgertooth (Oct 7, 2016)

foody518 said:


> IMO go gyuto. I have the bunka and it's fun but makes me wish I'd just spent the $70 extra to get a much longer knife



I like the way you think


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## idemhj (Oct 8, 2016)

bennyprofane said:


> Is this considered a lot of belly? I always thought of it as a relative flat knife.



To paraphrase Guy Clark's Hank Williams Said It Best:
"One man's belly is another man's flat." :laugh:


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## OneS (Oct 8, 2016)

I have the 270 suji and really like it. I bought it knowing I would rarely need a suji so I haven't even sharpened it in 12 months of infrequent usage. But when called for, it certainly does its job. It's a great looking knife and R2 certainly gets sharp. I couldn't ask for more. I would suspect his other knives are just as good - I just don't need any more knives at the mo !


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## Ruso (Oct 8, 2016)

"- I just don't need any more knives at the mo !"

Such a lie


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## alterwisser (Oct 8, 2016)

Ruso said:


> "- I just don't need any more knives at the mo !"
> 
> Such a lie



Blatant one indeed!


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## richard (Oct 8, 2016)

I didn't think I did either. Somehow still ended up with a 240. Love it though


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## XooMG (Oct 9, 2016)

My bunka had a bit of continuous belly but it wasn't terrible.

Profile with no photo tricks:





I never fell in love with mine (neck/choil was not my preference, mostly), but it was not a bad knife.


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## longhorn (Oct 10, 2016)

How would you guys describe the edge geometry and flex of the the 270 suji? Also is it a true 270mm or does it run long or short?


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## daveb (Oct 10, 2016)

Ruso said:


> "- I just don't need any more knives at the mo !"
> 
> Such a lie



I call Bullchit!


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## QCDawg (Mar 7, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> I recall seeing a lukewarm thread about them here when they were new and not a tonne of love since. Undeterred I bought a petty and I love it so much. There is a bunka or gyuto in my future plans.



+1 on the petty. I have a bunch of gyutos and pettys that get passed by for this 150. It gets used a lot. R2 is impressive


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## slengteng (Mar 8, 2017)

longhorn said:


> How would you guys describe the edge geometry and flex of the the 270 suji? Also is it a true 270mm or does it run long or short?



While the knife is very thin, it has surprinsingly low flexing. It has some flex, but while cutting foods it hasnt bend. 
My suji is 267mm long.


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## Nomsdotcom (Apr 25, 2017)

I was just holding one and doing some test cuts with a cucumber the other day. Only struggle is if I could actually use it as a line knife. Knuckle clearance says maybe not. But then there's the Bunka... but my mind says at that point why not just stick to the 210 Gyuto I've been using? The struggle


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## Nomsdotcom (Apr 25, 2017)

Nomsdotcom said:


> I was just holding one and doing some test cuts with a cucumber the other day. Only struggle is if I could actually use it as a line knife. Knuckle clearance says maybe not. But then there's the Bunka... but my mind says at that point why not just stick to the 210 Gyuto I've been using? The struggle



Sorry ment to quote Qcdawg on that one, comment is in refrence to the petty. This is what happens when I try and use my phone for things


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## KitchenCommander (Apr 25, 2017)

I really enjoy my 210 Gyuto. Although the spine is so thin, it almost feels flimsy in the hand, but it does not have any real flex. There is just not much material for me to grip at the neck. It cuts great, and has a nice flat profile. Could use a few more mm on the heel though, but that is a minor gripe.


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## johndavid (Apr 25, 2017)

yes, its a good knife. I like mine.


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## QCDawg (Apr 25, 2017)

Nomsdotcom said:


> Sorry ment to quote Qcdawg on that one, comment is in refrence to the petty. This is what happens when I try and use my phone for things



It has def settled into my rotation. (Assuming I go for the stainless section" of the knife roll...When I'm in a hurry or cooking/ slicing for just a few peeps..it's Shibata petty. If it's heavier prep (I get the knuckle clearance thing).. it's Kono HD 240 Gyuto. Good stainless team. Although when the carbons call me.. Mizuno blue 2 270 and Masamoto 165 w2 are their rivals.


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## Nomsdotcom (Apr 25, 2017)

QCDawg said:


> It has def settled into my rotation. (Assuming I go for the stainless section" of the knife roll...When I'm in a hurry or cooking/ slicing for just a few peeps..it's Shibata petty. If it's heavier prep (I get the knuckle clearance thing).. it's Kono HD 240 Gyuto. Good stainless team. Although when the carbons call me.. Mizuno blue 2 270 and Masamoto 165 w2 are their rivals.



I think when you put it that way "as a part of the rotation" it would work pretty nicely for me. Gesshin 240 and Wantanabe Nakiri does most of the heavy lifting then grab the Shibata for everything else. Though as of now I've enjoyed trying to tip garlic with a 210 haha


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## kwk1 (Mar 20, 2019)

KitchenCommander said:


> I really enjoy my 210 Gyuto. Although the spine is so thin, it almost feels flimsy in the hand, but it does not have any real flex. There is just not much material for me to grip at the neck. It cuts great, and has a nice flat profile. *Could use a few more mm on the heel though*, but that is a minor gripe.


Sorry to bring up and old thread, but are you saying more mm on the heel for knuckle clearance?
Just wondering cause the 210 is only about 44 mm tall while the 240 is 50.


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## davidg (Mar 22, 2019)

kwk1 said:


> Sorry to bring up and old thread, but are you saying more mm on the heel for knuckle clearance?
> Just wondering cause the 210 is only about 44 mm tall while the 240 is 50.



I'm assuming that is what he meant. I have the 240, 270 suji, and will be buying a 240 AS at some point. Hands down, some of the best cutters I've used. It makes my 240 HD2 feel like it can wedge. I'm not the biggest laser guy, but when I want one, Shibata is the absolute go to!


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## GorillaGrunt (Mar 22, 2019)

Agreed, my Kashima is my favorite laser. Assume but can’t confirm that though the profile is different the grind is close to the Kotetsu line.


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## labor of love (Mar 22, 2019)

Shibata only makes ktips right? Is there any benefit in use for that sorta tip on a suji or gyuto? It’s always been a turnoff for me, but I don’t think I have any actual experience with one.


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## GorillaGrunt (Mar 22, 2019)

Kashima is the pointy one in R2. The AS ones are more classic gyuto profiles. A K-tip gyuto might be better for someone who likes the push or thrust cut and doesn’t rock chop — more usable length in a smaller package. There’s a picture somewhere on here showing a Toyama 270 gyuto and 240 k-tip superimposed, and the profile of the 240 is the 270 minus the tip and truncated at the vertex. As for a suji, the k tip looks cooler and swordier, and the Shibata suji looks extra super cool; beyond that I don’t know.


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## labor of love (Mar 22, 2019)

Thank you.
Are kashima sold anywhere besides Togo? Don’t like those lame handles over there.


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## GorillaGrunt (Mar 22, 2019)

I haven’t seen them anywhere else, luckily I got mine before that with a basic ho handle. I agree with you - there are/were a few good knives there unavailable anywhere else but the garish handles that jack up the price by $100, sometimes on a $200 knife, are totally bogus.


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## Chicagohawkie (Mar 22, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Thank you.
> Are kashima sold anywhere besides Togo? Don’t like those lame handles over there.


I think Kashima is exclusive over there. It was part of the KS knockoff parade that happened over there nearly 2 years ago. I have one and it's a total laser that weighs about as much as a quarter. Not sure you'd like this one, has a ton of flex. Luckily I found one that had the rosewood and pakka handle. I wouldn't buy one of the bogus handle versions.


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## sododgy (Mar 23, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Thank you.
> Are kashima sold anywhere besides Togo? Don’t like those lame handles over there.




As others have said, it looks to be an exclusive. That KS profile of the Kashima isn't even listed on Shibata's site as something they produce. I've been meaning to reach out and see if they're ever going to get more or not, as it seems like it did pretty well. 

If you want a Shibata with an even more traditional profile, look for the Type 3, that's the Aogami Super and stainless clad gyuto that GorillaGrunt mentioned, and those are available a few different spots.


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## labor of love (Mar 23, 2019)

Thanks.


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