# Sharpening help



## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 6, 2020)

Sincerely asking for some guidance here. I’m an avid cook using mostly Wusthof and Zwilling, with a nice set of Shun not being used (as I don’t have proper sharpening system). 

It’s quite confusing to wade through oceans of conflicting information about various stone options. I’m willing to invest about $300 to get established. Would it be a waste of money to start with something like a Sharp Pebble or King? Do I mix manufacturers?

From what I’ve read, I think three grits and a strop would be nice. I have a Chef’s Choice 130 which could be used in conjunction, but I would prefer having total control of the edge manually.

Are there members here who sell these items? Any reputable sources?

Thank you all in advance. I would be happy to advise on matters within which I am expert, like kitchen design.


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## PappaG (Jun 6, 2020)

Hey Gold: You are going to get about 50 different opinions on this. I usually point folks to cheaper stones if they are brand new, just cause I won't suggest someone spend a lot of money on a hobby if their not sure whether or not they like it. 

Having said that, I think your approach is smart. Keep it simple for now. You can always sell your first set of stones and upgrade, or just trying something new. You can mix and match in the future, but for now get a nice simple starter set - get a course, medium and higher grit. I would also add a flattening plate. A strop is fine, but you could honestly use paper to start out with. If I was brand new I would go in one of these directions:

Budget: King 300, King 1200, King 6000 and flattening Plate.
Small Budget: Cerax 320, 1000 and Rika 5000.
Small-medium budget: Shapton Pro 320, 1000, 2000 (others will disagree...)
Bigger budget: Chosera 400, 800 and 3000
Also if you have not, check out: Japanese Knife Imports. Email or call jon - he will put together a really great starter set of stones for your budget.

Its hard to go wrong as a beginner with any of the above.


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## PappaG (Jun 6, 2020)

Opps. Welcome aboard. I guess this post should have gone under the Sharpening Forums.


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## Nemo (Jun 6, 2020)

Moved thread to "Sharpening Station"


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## Nemo (Jun 6, 2020)

Are you looking to sharpen Japanese knives or just Your Westerns?


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 6, 2020)

PappaG said:


> Opps. Welcome aboard. I guess this post should have gone under the Sharpening Forums.


Hi Pappa. Thanks for the advice. The sharpening system by Kramer (Zwilling) is allegedly manufactured by Chosera. Any thoughts about that set?
I am very new here. Don’t know how to move this thread.


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 6, 2020)

Nemo said:


> Are you looking to sharpen Japanese knives or just Your Westerns?


Hi Nemo. I want to sharpen both western and Japanese. Was considering the Kramer kit.


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## Carlo (Jun 6, 2020)

I feel like just about any set of three stones (coarse, medium, fine) or even just a decent combo stone (like 400/1000 for primarily western knives and Shun) would be fine. It’s not going to be about which stones you choose at first, but about learning the basic moves and developing muscle memory.

The learning curve for sharpening is steep at first, then it gets easier, so don’t get discouraged and don’t sweat the choice of stones too much. If the Kramer kit floats your boat, go for it. The important thing is to start.


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## PappaG (Jun 6, 2020)

I have the Kramer kit and really like it. It’s not as popular as the sets above. Hate to repeat but you can’t really go too wrong With any of the sets above.


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## Nemo (Jun 7, 2020)

You only need a coarse (3-500), medium (800- 2k) and fine (3-6K) stone. And a flattening stone. A diamond plate like Atoma, Gesshin or even DMT is best. If you only get one, get a lowish grit (I have bith Atoma 140 and 400 but I got the 140 first And it would be fine as my only plate.).

You don't need a strop although once you are able to reliably get a good edge off stones, you may feel that you can improve it a little by stropping. Hard mediums like balsa, cereal box cardboard over wood and rock hard (Martell grade) felt work well, especially if loaded with diamond (various opinions about grit are expoused, generally ranging rom 0.25 - 5 micron for kitchen knife use). I'd save the stropping until you can reliably produce a good edge with a stone, though.

Only reason to go finer than 5-6K would be for a yanagiba that you will use for sashimi or to show off (which is definitely a legit reason, BTW). Finer stones introduce more potential to round your edge because you need more strokes, so there are more opportunities for error.

Decide if you want splash and go or soakers and whether you will be sharpening mainly carbon or stainless, Western or Japanese.

You don't need to stay within a brand or a line but stones from the same line often have similar sharpening characteristics, so it may not be a terrible idea to start with.

For Western stainless (which won't hold a polish well) I use a Chosera 400 (equiv JIS 500ish) then deburr on Cho 1K (JIS 1500ish). That's it.

Japanese stainless- I usually use Cho3K (go back to 1K if you can't raise a burr quickly). 400 is for thinning.

Japanese carbon: Cho 3K works well. Sometimes I use Kitayama 8K instead. But 3K works just as well in a kitchen and there is less room for error, so much better for a beginner.

Maybe I should get a 6K... see where these rabbit holes lead you?

And we haven't even startedtalking about natural stones....

Hope this helps.


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## mpier (Jun 7, 2020)

When I first started sharpening I only had the 800 and 3000k Chosera. Since then I have bought and used many different stones, but I seam to come back these two stones for my primary use. I think if you are just cooking at home then you really don’t need anything with a higher grit and once all your knives are sharp you probably just need one stone for maintenance. Of course this changes if you are a professional.


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## ModRQC (Jun 13, 2020)

Also have a thought about your sharpening station. Where will you do this, sitting or at the sink or on the countertop? You'll need a tray to hold water, a bottle to splash your stones as needed, and you need a base to prop your stone up for clearance but also according to your particular point of comfort. About elbow height to somewhere above elbow height is recommended, with a measure of play for comfort. You may stack your stones together with a damp rag to start with but a stone holder isn't so expensive if you think you'll need it. A sink bridge is easily achieved with spare planks of wood.

Have fun it is a great journey!


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 18, 2020)

Thank you for all of your advice. I have narrowed my search down to either Naniwa Chosera or Shapton glass with an Atoma 140 flattener. Any input appreciated.

The final question is where do I purchase from? I live in NY. There are a few notable shops here including MTC Kitchen and others who are having a 20% off sale. But the sale is over on Saturday. I don’t mind paying “slightly more” to assure there is a human being on the other side of the sale who will actually make sure I receive authentic product in proper condition.

Thanks again and please do advise.


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## SeattleBen (Jun 18, 2020)

MTC is good and you should avail yourself of the sale if you can. It's also hard to tell if you've got a preference til you get your hands on a few stones. The budget sets listed above are well grouped and may be a good start. If you wanted to get real budget oriented you could skip the high grit stone for now and focus on the mid grit stone.


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 18, 2020)

Hi Seattle Ben,

I had the pleasure of staying in Seattle a few years ago. Remember going to a really nice knife store near the original StarBucks location. Thanks for your input.

MTC doesn’t sell Naniwa so I’m likely going to buy Shapton for now. Hopefully, with a little practice, I will aspire to add some Chosera. I really like everything I’ve read about them.

I have a stack of cheap knives (Farberware) I can practice on before I move to the Wusthof, Zwilling and Shun. Loving this forum!

Best regards,

Mitch


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## ModRQC (Jun 18, 2020)

You're in New-York and Naniwa is nowhere near a rare brand. If you want some get some. But Shaptons are nice too.

Working on really cheap stainless may yield more frustration than learning. Just start with a knife you like and is your dullest. It will help you to appreciate the process, will force you to have patience and will give you incentive to proceed - the prospect of using that knife you love again, sharp of your own hands.


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 18, 2020)

Thank you for writing. Truth is I can afford either, but I’m not wealthy. I need to make a choice and stick with it. I am a former performing classical musician, so I possess very good dexterity and appreciation for proper techniques. I’m not afraid to buy something slightly more advanced that will challenge me. Any thoughts about which brand would be appreciated.


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## SeattleBen (Jun 18, 2020)

Much of what informs most people's choices here is based on user experience and preference for feedback or speed. (At least for synthetics) The following are sort of fast and loose.

Splash and go can be used with no preparation and will wear less. Nice feedback is sacrificed for being a "harder" stone

Soakers require, (Ready for this??) soaking, have better feedback for which you sacrifice a faster dishing stone which requires more maintenance. 

I'd also really really suggest that in addition to any stone purchase that you add a flattening plate, which if you go with the atoma 140, could fill in for a really low grit stone on really damaged knives.


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## ModRQC (Jun 18, 2020)

The way I understand it, Shaptons tend to be straightforward and somewhat harsh stones in the coarse-mid grits. Not much forgiving but precise and effective with the most basic technique.

Naniwas tend to be silkier, creamier, and this because they easily create mud. A blt more forgiving but also a bit marginal - by varying techniques and thinning the mud people get to vary their grit range and have different scratch patterns.


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## PappaG (Jun 18, 2020)

You can get a pretty killer deal at MTC for the Cerax 320 and 1000. You have to hunt around for a "cheap" deal for the choseras.


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## kayman67 (Jun 18, 2020)

For your knives, I would get this 








Razor Edge System - Knife Sharpening Systems & Equipment


At Razor Edge Systems we take cutting edges very seriously. We offer sharpening products that make it possible for anyone to put a professional, razor edge on hunting knives, culinary and chef knives, broadheads, fish hooks, and more.




www.razoredgesystems.com




+








Razor Edge System - Knife Sharpening Systems & Equipment


At Razor Edge Systems we take cutting edges very seriously. We offer sharpening products that make it possible for anyone to put a professional, razor edge on hunting knives, culinary and chef knives, broadheads, fish hooks, and more.




www.razoredgesystems.com




and call it a day. 
Or similar stuff from Gritomatic, but these will do fine. 
The only problem is the usual, if this is you starting sharpening and want to go above and beyond with it, start with a middle grit softer stone (King, Suehiro) and learn with that. If not, the above combo is hard to beat, more than I would like to admit for the price.


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## Nemo (Jun 18, 2020)

FWIW, I use Choseras (400, 1k, 3k) as my main sharpening stones. The Naniwa Pro are said to be almost identical, just a bit less thick. They are pretty hard stones combine the convenience of S&G with nice feedback (note that many don't like the feedback on the 5k) and reasonable speed in all steels that I have used them on.

Some people like to soak their Choseras for a few minutes to improve grinding speed. I don't. Strictly S&G.

Some people have reported cracking of their Choseras. I have never had this problem. My stones are sealed (on the sides- the bottom has a base or I would have sealed there too) with marine varnish and as mentioned, they are never soaked. I don't know whether this is responsible for the longevity of my stones or whether it is a climactic thing (I live in a mostly dry climate).

Choseras are finer than their stated grit. Chosera 400 is probably around 500 JIS. 800 is said to be around 1K. 1k is around maybe 1500. 3K is around 4K. Perfect grit for finishing most good kitchen knives.

FWIW, I have also used Shapton Pro 1K (actually a Watanabe branded stone). Softer, behaves more aggressive than 1K. Faster. Different feedback but still OK.

Only used Shapton glass a couple of times. Hard stones which work fast. Didn't get a lot of feedback but it could just be that I didn't tune into the different feedback that the stone was offering.

In the end, any decent stone will do the job and the most variation in results will be in your skill as it develops. Probably the most important thing to decide is whether you want soakers or S&G. Some soakers can be perma-soaked in a container which will need regular water changing. Some people report perma-soaking in the toilet cistern. If you will be sharpening a lot of highly alloyed stainless steels (hap40, zdp189, SG2, etc) you may want to stock with the lines known for dealing with them well. Shapton glass, some of the Shapton Pros, Chosera and King Hyper are just a few examples.

Many people love Gesshin stones. JKI are in LA but you would be supporting a US business which is renowned for giving excellent customer service and impartial advice who also happen to be a longstanding forum supporting vendor. Could be worth a look and maybe an email.

Keep your stone flat and chamfer the edges. I like the handled Atoma for this. I recommend at least getting some form of diamond plate if you can afford it.


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## Qapla' (Jun 18, 2020)

Nemo said:


> Keep your stone flat and chamfer the edges. I like the handled Atoma for this. I recommend at least getting some form of diamond plate if you can afford it.



What is the advantage of chamfering the edges?


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 18, 2020)

Nemo said:


> FWIW, I use Choseras (400, 1k, 3k) as my main sharpening stones. The Naniwa Pro are said to be almost identical, just a bit less thick. They are pretty hard stones combine the convenience of S&G with nice feedback (note that many don't like the feedback on the 5k) and reasonable speed in all steels that I have used them on.
> 
> Some people like to soak their Choseras for a few minutes to improve grinding speed. I don't. Strictly S&G.
> 
> ...


Thank you sincerely for your excellent input. I have done some research based upon your advice and of others. JKI looks great, but I think the Gesshin products are a bit out of my price range. The Shapton glass are currently on sale for 20% off at MTC, which is quite attractive. But, the Chosera still seems to hold the most allure for me at the moment. Like you, I am thinking 400, 1000 and 3000. According to Sharpening Supplies website the Chosera has recently changed names. The “new” Chosera are fractionally more expensive than Shapton but currently on sale for 10% off if I buy at least three stones. I seem to recall others in this forum say that Sharpening Supplies is a reputable dealer. Does this seem like a reasonable strategy?

Still need the Atoma 140 and a cleaning stone. I don’t even have a stone holder yet. But all of this is exciting to me. I’m an avid cook and really think this is a good move.
Thanks for your thoughts.


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## kayman67 (Jun 18, 2020)

If you really consider doing it like that, research the 800 one first. That's THE favourite stone for many many people for knives.


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## Nemo (Jun 18, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> If you really consider doing it like that, research the 800 one first. That's THE favourite stone for many many people for knives.


Yup, although I love the Cho 1k, if I were doing it again, I'd be buying the 800 instead based on what I've subsequently heard.


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## Nemo (Jun 18, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> Thank you sincerely for your excellent input. I have done some research based upon your advice and of others. JKI looks great, but I think the Gesshin products are a bit out of my price range. The Shapton glass are currently on sale for 20% off at MTC, which is quite attractive. But, the Chosera still seems to hold the most allure for me at the moment. Like you, I am thinking 400, 1000 and 3000. According to Sharpening Supplies website the Chosera has recently changed names. The “new” Chosera are fractionally more expensive than Shapton but currently on sale for 10% off if I buy at least three stones. I seem to recall others in this forum say that Sharpening Supplies is a reputable dealer. Does this seem like a reasonable strategy?
> 
> Still need the Atoma 140 and a cleaning stone. I don’t even have a stone holder yet. But all of this is exciting to me. I’m an avid cook and really think this is a good move.
> Thanks for your thoughts.


What do you mean by "cleaning stone"?

If it is a ceramic stone fixer, this is just a ceaper and more fiddly alternative to a diamond plate (you would need to find a method of flattening the flattener). You don't need both. Unless you go the cheaper option only to realise that you should have gone with a diamond plate to start with.

FWIW, the JKI diamond plate also gets a lot of love on the forums, although I have never used it.


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## kayman67 (Jun 18, 2020)

Most likely he was thinking dressing stone, that's usually more convenient to use during sharpening and as surface conditioner (if applicable).


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 18, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> If you really consider doing it like that, research the 800 one first. That's THE favourite stone for many many people for knives.


Thank you. Yes, from reading advice here I am told Chosera behaves finer than the stated grit number. I have seen many comparisons between Chosera 800 and Shapton glass 1000. So then a good three Stone combo could be 400, 800 and 3000? Maybe should go with a 2000 instead. I’m just looking to put a reliable and very sharp edge on my knives. I use them. Getting a mirror polish would be nice, but not as important as a true working edge.


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 18, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> Most likely he was thinking dressing stone, that's usually more convenient to use during sharpening and as surface conditioner (if applicable).


Yes, I meant a dressing stone. Is that needed to prevent slurry from clogging as I sharpen?


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## kayman67 (Jun 18, 2020)

400-800-3000 would be, in my eyes, a better experience. 

A dressing stone could always prove useful.


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 18, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> 400-800-3000 would be, in my eyes, a better experience.
> 
> A dressing stone could always prove useful.


Thank you kindly


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## ModRQC (Jun 18, 2020)

Qapla' said:


> What is the advantage of chamfering the edges?



Just to prevent the edges becoming rather sharp - potential injuries to the hand and ungainly scratches to the knife. All new stones I’ve seen so far are chamfered from manufacturer.


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## backdoc (Jun 18, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> Thank you sincerely for your excellent input. I have done some research based upon your advice and of others. JKI looks great, but I think the Gesshin products are a bit out of my price range. The Shapton glass are currently on sale for 20% off at MTC, which is quite attractive. But, the Chosera still seems to hold the most allure for me at the moment. Like you, I am thinking 400, 1000 and 3000. According to Sharpening Supplies website the Chosera has recently changed names. The “new” Chosera are fractionally more expensive than Shapton but currently on sale for 10% off if I buy at least three stones. I seem to recall others in this forum say that Sharpening Supplies is a reputable dealer. Does this seem like a reasonable strategy?
> 
> Still need the Atoma 140 and a cleaning stone. I don’t even have a stone holder yet. But all of this is exciting to me. I’m an avid cook and really think this is a good move.
> Thanks for your thoughts.


I very recently purchased the Atoma 140, Shapton Glass 500, 1000 & 3000 from MTC. I also got a sink bridge and stone holder.

I like everything and would do business with MTC again.

Only thing to be aware of is the SG stones don’t stick up over the top of the holder much. So, I might consider just using drawer grip material instead. But, the holder does work.


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## big D (Jun 19, 2020)

backdoc said:


> I very recently purchased the Atoma 140, Shapton Glass 500, 1000 & 3000 from MTC. I also got a sink bridge and stone holder.
> 
> I like everything and would do business with MTC again.
> 
> Only thing to be aware of is the SG stones don’t stick up over the top of the holder much. So, I might consider just using drawer grip material instead. But, the holder does work.



In my opinion all that is required is that the top of the stone sits ever so slightly above the holder. If the blade touches the holder then you are doing something wrong such as pushing down with fingers when off of the stone or downward pressure with the handle holding hand. This will cause the blade to bow over the corner of the stone which is not a good thing in my opinion. If the matt does not work as well for you simply cut a piece of glass. hard plastic, wood, to fit under the shapton to raise it so a bit of glass is showing above the holder. 1/4 inch stock works with my holder.
Enjoy your stones
D.


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## Helmore (Jun 19, 2020)

backdoc said:


> Only thing to be aware of is the SG stones don’t stick up over the top of the holder much. So, I might consider just using drawer grip material instead. But, the holder does work.


The Naniwa stone holder has lower rubber lips which prevents this issue. I've seen it recommended specifically for this reason. Well, and because it's a quality product of course.


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## ModRQC (Jun 19, 2020)

Agreed... I think the SG glass backing - 5mm I believe - would be about just enough clearance on the Naniwa holder for the stone to be used up to the very last mm.


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## backdoc (Jun 19, 2020)

Helmore said:


> The Naniwa stone holder has lower rubber lips which prevents this issue. I've seen it recommended specifically for this reason. Well, and because it's a quality product of course.


I figured there was one available, I just went with this one because it had one thumb screw instead of two. I was trying to get everything in one order. And, I don’t think MTC sells the Naniwa. I like mine, but eventually, when the stone wears enough, I’ll have to raise it with something under the stone or trim the rubber. I think the rubber can be trimmed with a hot knife. I know guys I dirt raced with used to customize their tires that way.


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## backdoc (Jun 19, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Agreed... I think the SG glass backing - 5mm I believe - would be about just enough clearance on the Naniwa holder for the stone to be used up to the very last mm.


I may switch to that one day.


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## kayman67 (Jun 19, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Agreed... I think the SG glass backing - 5mm I believe - would be about just enough clearance on the Naniwa holder for the stone to be used up to the very last mm.



Should be more than enough, I guess. 



+


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## ModRQC (Jun 19, 2020)

Well if most of your stones are from a same line you can always make a one fits all backing. There shouldn't be enough difference between stones anyway not to be able to use the same backing - cut from the size of your smallest stone. The clamp will hold the stones, the backing will prop them, and call it a day.



backdoc said:


> I may switch to that one day.


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## Rodin326 (Jun 19, 2020)

Just my two cents and it has been a process for me. I started hand sharpening on diamond stones just to get a feel for hand placement, angle, technique, etc. I started on diamond stones because the thought of dishing and maintenance of natural or ceramic stones was too much to worry about while still learning. So, I have now moved on to a set of Shapton pro and also shapton glass stones as my ability has improved. I still have my diamond stones and use them on PM steels or a knife that I want to fix the edge on. In my opinion though, stropping is just as important as sharpening and maintaining a good strop regimen will definitely prolong and maintain your edges so you won't have to get the stones out that often.


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 20, 2020)

My sincere thanks to all who assisted me with their wisdom. This is what I ended up with:

Atoma 140
SG 320
NP new Chosera 400, 800, 3000

Also bought a basic stone holder and angle guide. Forgot the dressing stone. Trying to add that to my order now. Didn’t buy a strop yet, nor a good straightening steel rod. 

Think I’m set for a while. Will send something useful here about my stones, if possible.


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## danemonji (Jun 20, 2020)

I have purchased Naniwa professional 400 and 800 and they are superb stones. 400 is so fast in thining and fixing blade road profile. It doesn't need a lot of water and moves metal very well and controlled. The 800 is very fine and feels more like a 1000. You get burr in a couple of swipes and it smooths very well the scratch marks from the 400. Next i jump on the 4k grit for a jiro like finish and from there I go to the buttery JNats 8k for a hazy kasumi and mirror hagane, or I go on hard stones 15k+ for mirror contrasting kasumi.


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## Helmore (Jun 20, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> SG 320
> NP new Chosera 400


Won't these two be close enough as to serve the same purpose?


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 20, 2020)

Helmore said:


> Won't these two be close enough as to serve the same purpose?


You’re likely correct. But I had to buy three Chosera to get a discount. I’ve heard great things about the SG320 and it was also on sale! Thought about a higher grit Chosera but I think there is reasonable daylight between the Chosera 400 and SG 320. Wish I knew more about the subject but I’m sufficiently obsessed to get to this point and looking forward to creating a worthy edge....or two.....


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## Ben.G. (Jun 20, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> Also bought a basic stone holder and angle guide. Forgot the dressing stone. Trying to add that to my order now. Didn’t buy a strop yet, nor a good straightening steel rod.


A dressing stone isn’t so important if you have the diamond plate. The Atoma can clean and build slurry on your Choseras. 
Stropping can be accomplished on different materials. I have homemade denim strops and a leather strop, but I started stropping on newspaper and cardboard. Newspaper works surprisingly well. 
A honing rod also isn’t necessary. I stopped using mine once I became better at using whetstones.
Happy honing!


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## turko (Jun 20, 2020)

Helmore said:


> Won't these two be close enough as to serve the same purpose?





GoldCoastMitch said:


> You’re likely correct. But I had to buy three Chosera to get a discount. I’ve heard great things about the SG320 and it was also on sale! Thought about a higher grit Chosera but I think there is reasonable daylight between the Chosera 400 and SG 320. Wish I knew more about the subject but I’m sufficiently obsessed to get to this point and looking forward to creating a worthy edge....or two.....



From what I've read here the Chosera 400 is more like a 600 stone.. so maybe not. Maybe use the SG320 for repairs or very dull SS?


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## ModRQC (Jun 20, 2020)

Having two stones of "similar" range can be fun, sometimes you discover uses to one (particular steels or process) that doesn't suit the other, and vice-versa.

The SG320 will be fast, aggressive, precise.

The Naniwa 400 is a more polite stone for its grit.

They can do wonders together as to cover any eventuality from major repairs to getting fast burrs on fatigued dull soft SS.

Edit: oh and you got the NP800 too, fantastic stone, will take from the SG320 very well and propel you easily towards your NP3000.


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## mpier (Jun 21, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> My sincere thanks to all who assisted me with their wisdom. This is what I ended up with:
> 
> Atoma 140
> SG 320
> ...


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## mpier (Jun 21, 2020)

You can’t go wrong with that order, I would stay away from the honing rods all together. A couple of minutes on the 3k will keep your blades sharp no need for a strop at first either


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## ModRQC (Jun 21, 2020)

If you work pro a honing rod might help going through the day with soft SS.

But in the same sense as @mpier and @Ben.G. comment I didn’t use a rod since I use stones.


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 23, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> 400-800-3000 would be, in my eyes, a better experience.
> 
> A dressing stone could always prove useful.


Took your advice. Thank you


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jun 23, 2020)

Loving this forum. Really nice bunch of members with lots of great knowledge. 
Been an avid cook for several years and never happy with results from my electric sharpener. Managed to squeak by mostly with a $12 accusharp for years. Now I finally am doing something for myself thanks to this forum!


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## nexus1935 (Jun 23, 2020)

Really helpful information in this thread on stone progression. Thank you all!


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jul 3, 2020)

Trying to learn first in just one stone. Using the Chosera 800. Did my best working on two knives. Zwilling chefs knife sharpened fairly nicely, though it wasn’t particularly dull when I started. 

But, I had trouble with my Wusthof classic chefs knife. Took a lot longer and didn’t end up with a consistent edge. This knife also started out much duller than the other.

Considering both of these have relatively soft steel, I should have done better. Definitely had a good amount of gray slurry working at most times. Significant pressure only on trailing strokes.

Am I expecting too much from the Chosera 800? Should I drop down to Chosera 400 or SG320 to help, or is that a crutch?


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## M1k3 (Jul 3, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> Trying to learn first in just one stone. Using the Chosera 800. Did my best working on two knives. Zwilling chefs knife sharpened fairly nicely, though it wasn’t particularly dull when I started.
> 
> But, I had trouble with my Wusthof classic chefs knife. Took a lot longer and didn’t end up with a consistent edge. This knife also started out much duller than the other.
> 
> ...


If it's a crutch to spend less time with not fun steels, I'm guilty.


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## GoldCoastMitch (Jul 3, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> If it's a crutch to spend less time with not fun steels, I'm guilty.


Forgive me as I’m so new to this. My understanding of maintaining a good edge says that once it is sharp, then it’s not necessary to drop down to lower grits. But, I am not yet a good judge of when a lower grit is needed. 

From what I’ve learned in this forum the Chosera 800 behaves like a higher grit rating, but cuts well. The impression I got from working with my Wusthof is that very little was changing, despite a fair amount of slurry, etc...

The SG320 should be faster than a Chosera 400 but I’m worried about taking off too much steel. Will admit this can be fun!

I’m trying to learn and become truly self sufficient with sharpening. Even though I watch YouTube videos (jki and Ryky and more) the learning curve is bigger than I thought.


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## dafox (Jul 3, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> But, I had trouble with my Wusthof classic chefs knife. Took a lot longer and didn’t end up with a consistent edge. This knife also started out much duller than the other.


Most of us would start with a stone with a lower grit than the Chosera 800 for this.


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## mpier (Jul 3, 2020)

You must be patient, it will come to you. Try different techniques or a combination of techniques. Practice on not so good knives until you learn to set a good consistent edge. Trust your muscle memory to stay constant. The 800 will take much more time on a dull knife but it is also good practice. You should probably wait to drop down to the 400 until you can set a good edge with the 800, the 400 is much more aggressive and there is less room for error. This of course is just my opinion


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## PappaG (Jul 3, 2020)

Basically you are shapening knives that are not fun to sharpen. Yes you should be using a courser stone. 
But if you want to enjoy the process much more, get a cheap Shirogami knife. You will enjoy the process much more and feel much more competent.


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## M1k3 (Jul 3, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> Forgive me as I’m so new to this. My understanding of maintaining a good edge says that once it is sharp, then it’s not necessary to drop down to lower grits. But, I am not yet a good judge of when a lower grit is needed.
> 
> From what I’ve learned in this forum the Chosera 800 behaves like a higher grit rating, but cuts well. The impression I got from working with my Wusthof is that very little was changing, despite a fair amount of slurry, etc...
> 
> ...


If it's kind of sharp, sure, don't drop to a coarser stone. But if you're spending a lot of time on the 800 stone and getting nowhere, drop down lower in grit.


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## ModRQC (Jul 3, 2020)

Don’t flog yourself for having trouble with soft ss, it’s no fun and rather hard job especially when dull.

Your results towards what was needed says it all: one was not too dull and went rather well on #800. Perhaps it will go as fast for a dull one if you lower the grit. Then use the 800 to deburr and refine.

It’s no crutch it’s logical progression of a soft ss - going high serves little but starting low when dull is much quicker. Your #800 is a good edge enough for these also, so dull progresses, but still a bit sharp is touched up on the 800.

I think you did well. Use your tools at their best is all there is here. For now.

go back at it!


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## ModRQC (Jul 3, 2020)

Sorry to repeat @M1k3 post at the same time.


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 4, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> Forgive me as I’m so new to this. My understanding of maintaining a good edge says that once it is sharp, then it’s not necessary to drop down to lower grits. But, I am not yet a good judge of when a lower grit is needed.
> 
> From what I’ve learned in this forum the Chosera 800 behaves like a higher grit rating, but cuts well. The impression I got from working with my Wusthof is that very little was changing, despite a fair amount of slurry, etc...
> 
> ...



GoldCoastMitch,,, how are you at "reading" your bevel? That's really step #1. You read not only with your eyes, but with your finger-tips (or thumb) as well.


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## M1k3 (Jul 4, 2020)

Bobby2shots said:


> GoldCoastMitch,,, how are you at "reading" your bevel? That's really step #1. You read not only with your eyes, but with your finger-tips (or thumb) as well.


Don't read to hard with your fingers though.


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## Matt Jacobs (Jul 4, 2020)

My wife and mom use German stainless knifes. I keep them sharp with a steel and a leather strop. That combo keeps them plenty sharp. If they get to the point of needing a stone then they are in rough shape and probably have divots or chips. At that point I go to my 320 grit and finish on my 800. All of my knifes in White, AS, R2 etc I always go 800 then finish on 5k. My reasoning for doing the soft stainless at 320 is that I can still keep moderate pressure and good technique. If I start at 800 I have to use more pressure or time and my technique falters.


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