# Help needed choosing from these 5 210mm gyutos



## Scubadoo (Mar 14, 2015)

I've had loss of advice so far and have narrowed my choice to a 210 gyuto.

i posted a previous thread and questionnaire here when i though i was after a 180mm http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/21972-Trying-to-decide-on-a-180mm-Gyuto-I-think!

Anyway, i had the opportunity to go and look at some yesterday. It's the first time I've ever held a japanese knife other than my Global so take my comments as being from someone relatively new to the world of quality knives.

I looked at some stunning knives and some 'rustic' ones where i was suprised at the roughness of the finish. There was a Fujiwara Maboroshi that was quite 'bent', not along the length but from cutting edge to the spine. What's that called, the grind?

I looked at a Western Takamura R2 which was super thin but too bendy for me.

So on to the contenders. I've discounted full carbon and want something that will rock cut and push cut, mostly pinch grip, some hammer. For general veg and boned meat prep. One thing which suprised me was that I definitely prefer a Wa handle and i think i like d-shape over octagonal. 

*Wakui 210mm gyuto* - (they only had the 240mm in stock) stainless clad no. 2 white steel. Felt very light, thin and nice fit and finish. the spine and choil seemed nicely rounded. The handle would benefit from being replaced. £150 + new handle







*Masakage Hikari 210mm gyuro* - VG10 - again nice fit and finish and i really like the curved choil, the fingers felt very comfortable with a pinch grip. £160






And with a bit of a price jump;

*Akifusa Migaki 210mm gyuto * by the late Masami Asai. - This one felt really nice, probably a bit heftier. I really liked this one but it's probably more than i should spend. - core of Aogami super steel, sandwiched between layers of stainless steel - £245






The others that I've been considering but haven't physically handled are:

The Konosuke HD2 but from what I hear I won't easily be able to get hold of one in the UK.






*Itinomonn Kasumi 210 gyuto* V2 with stainless clad - £137






So what do you guys think. Be as blunt as you like!

Cheers

Dave


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 14, 2015)

Pick the one you liked the best from the knives you handled. The Itinomonn is very nice, good value -if you like a tall blade it's a solid option. 

If you dislike thin and very light rule out the Konosuke - it's a typical "laser".


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## Mangelwurzel (Mar 14, 2015)

The wakui looks interesting; looks like it's pretty thin behind the edge. Where did you go to find it?


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## Dardeau (Mar 14, 2015)

I use a 210mm Itinomonn as my home knife nearly exclusively. The belly that many people complain about makes it much more versatile in my small space at home. I didn't like it so much at work but at home it is a star.


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 14, 2015)

That Wakui is very Yoshikane-esque, perhaps unsurprising given where their respective workshops are located.


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## ecchef (Mar 14, 2015)

I have the Konosuke original HD as my 'go to' at home. Nice profile, super thin & light, monosteel, easy to sharpen. Guessing the HD2 is pretty similar. May be too flexible from what you posted though.


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## Dardeau (Mar 14, 2015)

I can also add that the Itinomonn won't need a new handle, the stock d shaped is very nice.


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## Scubadoo (Mar 14, 2015)

Timthebeaver said:


> Pick the one you liked the best from the knives you handled. The Itinomonn is very nice, good value -if you like a tall blade it's a solid option.
> 
> If you dislike thin and very light rule out the Konosuke - it's a typical "laser".



Thanks Tim. Unfortunately though I couldn't handle a 210 Wakui and I obviously haven't cut with them so was wondering if people could make any comparisons in use. I think at the moment I'm leaning towards the Wakui but it's hard to find any reviews or info and as I said, my frame of rerence/experience is low. 

I do like thin and light but i wouldn't want bendy like the Talamura R2.


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## Scubadoo (Mar 14, 2015)

Timthebeaver said:


> That Wakui is very Yoshikane-esque, perhaps unsurprising given where their respective workshops are located.



From what I've heard the maker forged at Yoshikane for a while but I may be wrong.


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## Scubadoo (Mar 14, 2015)

Timthebeaver said:


> That Wakui is very Yoshikane-esque, perhaps unsurprising given where their respective workshops are located.



True, but a new handle makes it 'custom' doesn't it. :lol2:


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## chinacats (Mar 14, 2015)

If you plan on doing the sharpening yourself, I may suggest one with a white or V2 steel core, as they will be easy to learn.

It of your choices I would personally choose the Itonomonn.


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## daveb (Mar 14, 2015)

Send Maksim money.


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## Scubadoo (Mar 14, 2015)

chinacats said:


> If you plan on doing the sharpening yourself, I may suggest one with a white or V2 steel core, as they will be easy to learn.
> 
> It of your choices I would personally choose the Itonomonn.



Thanks. I plan on trying to sharpen with stones. I do my chisels and planes but I'm using the veritas jig so it's straightforward.

Have you used any of the other knives to compare to the Itonomonn?

Cheers
Dave


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## chinacats (Mar 14, 2015)

Scubadoo said:


> Thanks. I plan on trying to sharpen with stones. I do my chisels and planes but I'm using the veritas jig so it's straightforward.
> 
> Have you used any of the other knives to compare to the Itonomonn?
> 
> ...



Dave, I've tried Konosuke, Itonomonn, and Akifusa though different models of each than what you are looking at here. I'm not familiar with the first knife you posted, but am guessing it would be very thin, likely similar to the Konosuke.


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## Godslayer (Mar 14, 2015)

Itonomon or masakage. I have a few of their knives from the shimo mizu and yuki line and love them. The little buggers are so sharp and so sexy. No experience with that particular line though.


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## Scubadoo (Mar 14, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Dave, I've tried Konosuke, Itonomonn, and Akifusa though different models of each than what you are looking at here. I'm not familiar with the first knife you posted, but am guessing it would be very thin, likely similar to the Konosuke.



Thanks. The Wakui didn't feel particulary thinner than the Masakage from what i remember and it definitely didn't feel too flexible or bendy at all. The Akifusa felt more substantial. I definitely like a thin, light, nimble knife but just not bendy.

It was very thin behind the edge if that makes sense. And as I said the fit and finish was nice, not sure about the 'hairline' finish though, i presume it's just an aesthetic thing? In fact it looks similar to the finish on the Itinomonn.

It'd be great to handle an Itinomonn to compare but I guess that's difficult.

I did appreciate the time that the seller spent with me and he was a nice guy, always nice to support local businesses I suppose. Course I could just try them both out and pretend that I'd sell the one I like least


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## Scubadoo (Mar 14, 2015)

Godslayer said:


> Itonomon or masakage. I have a few of their knives from the shimo mizu and yuki line and love them. The little buggers are so sharp and so sexy. No experience with that particular line though.



The Masakage Shimo line do look nice. I really like the 150mm petty.


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## Godslayer (Mar 14, 2015)

I have that exact knife. It's too high maintenance. But masakage is beautiful. Even the mizu line.


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## Scubadoo (Mar 15, 2015)

Godslayer said:


> I have that exact knife. It's too high maintenance. But masakage is beautiful. Even the mizu line.



Is that just because it's a full carbon blade?

A 150mm petty Is the other knife I'm going to get. I'll probably go stainless or clad.


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## Scubadoo (Mar 15, 2015)

I'm also thinking about adding the Masakage Koishi to the list. The cutting vids I've seen look impressive and let's face it, it's quite pretty!


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## Matus (Mar 15, 2015)

I have Masakage Koishi ko-bunka and it is a great little knife (used as 'table knife' most of the time - that's what it was bought for). There is a bit of shoulder where the grind starts, so the knife is basically a wide bevel - I do not know how the gyutos are forged/ground. The heat treat of the super blue seems sound - did not have any issues with chipping and edge holding is very good. The handle on mine ages nicely (darkened a little over time with regular care with board butter). I can notice the transition between the bolster and wood, but it is very slight and does not disturb.


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## Scubadoo (Mar 15, 2015)

And the last option (promise!) the Teruyasu Fujiwara Nashiji 210mm Gyuto


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 15, 2015)

I've owned that knife in 240mm. Pretty good, but not in the class of the Itinomonn in my opinion.


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## toddnmd (Mar 15, 2015)

Matus said:


> The handle on mine ages nicely (darkened a little over time with regular care with board butter).



Cherry wood naturally darkens as it ages. UV light will accelerate the process, but if the light exposure is uneven, the darkening may be also.


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## Matus (Mar 15, 2015)

Interesting information, thank you. I did not know the handle was cherry wood  Yes - the handle darkens slowly as it basically never sees direct sunlight.


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## chinacats (Mar 15, 2015)

Skip the TF...possible qc issues


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## Scubadoo (Mar 15, 2015)

Matus said:


> I have Masakage Koishi ko-bunka and it is a great little knife ....



Thanks Matus



Timthebeaver said:


> I've owned that knife in 240mm. Pretty good, but not in the class of the Itinomonn in my opinion.



I take you're talking about the Fujiwara? Thanks for the input again.



chinacats said:


> Skip the TF...possible qc issues



Thanks.


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## Godslayer (Mar 15, 2015)

Honestly bro go masakage and spend the $6 for a knife guard. The koishi is an amazing knife. I regret not buying one. Just couldn't justify the cost for a petty


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## Scubadoo (Jul 12, 2016)

Hello,

OK, I know it's been a while and I still haven't picked up a knife but all the advice was really helpful.

I'm still making do with my Global but have now settled on a choice of three knives that offer stainless clad carbon at a reasonable price point and seem to offer good value for money. 

Masakage Yuki 210mm gyuto - £155
Masakage Koichi 210mm gyuto - £225
Itinomonn Stain-less 210mm - £155


There are other options from Maksim like the TOYAMA NOBORIKOI KASUMI GYUTO 210MM at £228 but I don't know anything about them.

The Itinomonn is, as it often seems to be, out of stock. I prefer the look of the Koichi, then the Yuki and lastly the Itinomonn. I presume the white steel Yuki will be easier to learn sharpening than on the blue steel Koichi? And is the Koichi more prone to chipping?

I'm probably leaning towards the Yuki as it's a good price, i like the look and it seems to be well thought of. Any last thoughts or opinions before I finally jump in to the world of Japanese knives?

Cheers
Dave


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## zetieum (Jul 12, 2016)

I have a wakui at home. Fantastic knife all around knife. I love the hairline look. Grind is excellent, nice distal taper. It is a very robust knife, yet no wedging. F&F is perfect. At this price this knife is just far far above most others. The real down side is clearly the handle. I had a custom yet simple handle on mine. The core is a bit reactive, I forced patina mine in coffee. Since then, no problem.
The HD2 is an excelleent knife but it is way more expensive than all the other you are considering. I ahem read on other forum that the production Konosuke HD2 is up an that they will become more available from this autumn.

EDIT: I just saw that you were not considering these knives anymore. From the three you have pre-selected, I would go for the masakage choice.


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## Scubadoo (Jul 12, 2016)

zetieum said:


> I have a wakui at home. Fantastic knife all around knife. I love the hairline look. Grind is excellent, nice distal taper. It is a very robust knife, yet no wedging. F&F is perfect. At this price this knife is just far far above most others. The real down side is clearly the handle. I had a custom yet simple handle on mine. The core is a bit reactive, I forced patina mine in coffee. Since then, no problem.
> The HD2 is an excelleent knife but it is way more expensive than all the other you are considering. I ahem read on other forum that the production Konosuke HD2 is up an that they will become more available from this autumn.
> 
> EDIT: I just saw that you were not considering these knives anymore. From the three you have pre-selected, I would go for the masakage choice.



Thanks for the input. I still have the Wakui in the back of my mind as it was lovely - it was about £200 with a yew handle last time I spoke to the seller. Have you ever directly compared one to a Masakage? Would you say it's a better knife?
Thanks
Dave


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## RDalman (Jul 12, 2016)

I've heard alot of good about wakui, and handled a bunch (but haven't used). I believe they are very well regarded performance wise.


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