# What do you use for cutting hard stuff ie. Pumpkins



## djmm (May 5, 2017)

I know gyuto should be multi purpose but for carrot or pumpkin / other hard vegies or items, I hesitate to use my "good" knife.

Thinking to get a cheap double bevel deba or boning knife for rough jobs.
What do you guys use for this task at home? Any suggestions?

Should I buy 20 dollar knife for this? Lol


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## valgard (May 5, 2017)

I use my Koishi gyuto and Watanabe nakiri almost daily for carrots, sweet potatoes, and butternut squash.


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## Ruso (May 5, 2017)

Neither pumpkin or carrots are hard. 
I dont usually cut punkins though, but I would use a larger knife. For carrots, whatever I was using before. 

As long as there is no bone or it's not frozen you can and should be using your gyuto. It's made for it.


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## djmm (May 6, 2017)

Even for peeling off the hard pumpkin skin?


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## valgard (May 6, 2017)

djmm said:


> Even for peeling off the hard pumpkin skin?



Butternut squash skin is not that hard and I can actually get it of with the $5 vegetable peeler from ikea. Have never tried cooking what people here call pumpkin though. The hardest stuff I cut is fresh sweet potatoes but my Watanabe takes care of it without a hitch.


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## jimbob (May 6, 2017)

Cck 1303


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## djmm (May 6, 2017)

We have japanese pumpkin here and the skin is quite thick and hard to cut. Most definitely much harder than sweet potatoes/any sort of potatoes. 
I wouldn't be safe trying that with expensive gyuto especially thinner ones...

I think this is the pumpkin we usually get:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabocha

I'm thinking to get a lower priced double bevel deba or honesuki just for working with harder items... is honesuki good for peeling hard skins?


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## chefcomesback (May 6, 2017)

Get a good gyuto that is not going to break into pieces if you cut pumpkin with it , it beats the purpose of buying a better knife if you can't use it


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## valgard (May 6, 2017)

chefcomesback said:


> Get a good gyuto that is not going to break into pieces if you cut pumpkin with it , it beats the purpose of buying a better knife if you can't use it



What Mert said, that's how I see it. Why buy nice knives if I won't use them. Just get one that is not too delicate.


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## djmm (May 6, 2017)

So that means no 64+ hardness thin gyuto then?


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## XooMG (May 6, 2017)

I use more brittle knives pretty often. I will not take them to woody stems though.

Biggest danger for my thin hard knives is embedded sand or similar.


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## chefcomesback (May 6, 2017)

djmm said:


> So that means no 64+ hardness thin gyuto then?



Quite the opposite, if you use proper cutting techniques they will be fine , as mooxg stated the dirt or the woody stems are bigger issue than what you are cutting


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## fatboylim (May 6, 2017)

Toyama 210 nakiri is my favourite. Heavy weight nakiri that is thin behind the edge but can take power through the edge. It is beastly but it does suit taking apart big hard vegetables.


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## Badgertooth (May 6, 2017)

The other trick is to avoid any rotation or torque through the skin cuts. If it's a buttercup squash, keep a steady and true hand and you'll be sweet. A Toyama or Watanabe of any kind is also a destroyer of pumpkin.


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## Mute-on (May 6, 2017)

I have used a Sakai Yusuke Shirogami 240 Gyuto on butternut pumpkin. This is a laser, but not the extra thin version.

No problem at all with proper technique. As Badgertooth said, avoid any rotation or torque. Easy peasy


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## foody518 (May 6, 2017)

Have used a slightly thinned Tojiro DP to take the skin off kabocha and cut it into pieces. 

Going significantly thicker sounds frustrating and more difficult


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## Ruso (May 6, 2017)

djmm said:


> Even for peeling off the hard pumpkin skin?



I've never done that, but it should not be an issue. Try to minimize the lateral torque. 
In addition, you are better off using sharp knife that bites, rather than a cheap dull one that can slip and hit you in the hand.


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## Wdestate (May 6, 2017)

i agree with what everyone else said, just dont bend the knife while ur cutting and you should have 0 problems, however i do keep an old 240mm Mioroshi deba around for some of this stuff when i feel like getting aggressive with that pumpkin


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## StonedEdge (May 6, 2017)

Tojiro yo deba 240 thinned out a bit for stubborn hard/large stuff


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## JBroida (May 6, 2017)

the thinnest knife that I can find


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## no_one_just_Roy (May 6, 2017)

djmm said:


> I'm thinking to get a lower priced double bevel deba or honesuki just for working with harder items... is honesuki good for peeling hard skins?


Kabocha? I'd recommend neither. Deba is basically too thick to cut hard vegetables, even though you can use it like a splitting wedge.

I'd use a cheap (but not super cheap) santoku/nakiri/gyuto/whatever knife and a rubber hammer.
A very reliable way to break your ceramic knife, though 

Or a few minutes of microwave. Science!


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## JBroida (May 6, 2017)

at home, we use a 240mm white #2 gesshin ginga on kabocha (which we eat rather often)... never once had a chipping issue with it


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## daveb (May 6, 2017)

Lectric! zoom, zoom.


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## shownomarci (May 7, 2017)

I still remember dealing with big white pumpkins at work. 
Not only they are big and have hard (as f***) skin but they barely taste of anything.
I usually use my Hiromoto AS gyuto on harder veg. and it does a good job, but that one was a pain.
I rather use butternut squash. Easier to handle + more flavour. Never tried kabocha tho'.


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## Badgertooth (May 7, 2017)

Our biggest veg export is buttercup squash and it's the bomb. It's sweet and starchy and doesn't turn to slush when cooked. But a PITA to peel. Just discovered the skin is edible when cooked which is a game changer.


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## TimoNieminen (May 7, 2017)

djmm said:


> What do you guys use for this task at home?



I use either a Thai cleaver (left) or CCK kau kong knife (right).






Not for carrots, but hard pumpkin and taro. Other stuff that looks hard and woody. Partly for reducing the probability of knife damage, partly because it's a good opportunity to do something with a cleaver.


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## khashy (May 7, 2017)

Takamura R2


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## Badgertooth (May 7, 2017)

This guy


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## djmm (May 7, 2017)

I want to peel pumpkin not kill the farmer.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (May 7, 2017)

Cutting might be safe to thin knives... cutting hard peel off against the curve, however, is quite the lateral force on the edge, no?


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## JBroida (May 7, 2017)

if the peel is thin, its not a problem. It matters when you take off more than needed and the amount of food beeing peeled off is rather thick.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (May 7, 2017)

Taking off "more than needed" can be a quick solution to uneven peel, or less than fresh stuff with surface defects... and in some cases (cantaloupes!) there are quite a few mm of (comparatively soft, but still potentially edge bending) stuff that you want gone


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## Nomsdotcom (May 9, 2017)

TimoNieminen said:


> I use either a Thai cleaver (left) or CCK kau kong knife (right).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Woah where did you get that Thai Cleaver? I happen to be in Bangkok right now. And I want to take one of those home with me  
Thanks,
Kevin


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## TimoNieminen (May 9, 2017)

I got it through ebay. From Thailand. Don't know where you'd look to find one locally. This one is carbon steel; they also make stainless ones with the same style of blade.

The only ones I can see on ebay right now are:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Heavy-Du...hef-Butcher-Chopper-Knife-Steel-/322020514338


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## scott.livesey (May 9, 2017)

a basic cleaver


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## Nomsdotcom (May 9, 2017)

TimoNieminen said:


> I got it through ebay. From Thailand. Don't know where you'd look to find one locally. This one is carbon steel; they also make stainless ones with the same style of blade.
> 
> The only ones I can see on ebay right now are:
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Heavy-Du...hef-Butcher-Chopper-Knife-Steel-/322020514338



Thanks!


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## fatboylim (May 18, 2017)

jimbob said:


> Cck 1303



Is there much flex in the 1303? I heard they were thin!


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## khashy (May 18, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Is there much flex in the 1303? I heard they were thin!



It's unbelievably thin but no flex to speak of

Pop down to china town and play with a whole load of different ones at seewoo


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## Danzo (May 18, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Is there much flex in the 1303? I heard they were thin!



I have a 1302, a slightly larger version of the 1300 series. It's great. Did a quick rehandle and it's my go to knife at home. Super thin, glides through carrots and potatoes like nothing. Not sure on the HRC but I'm suspecting it's pretty high up there. It's very stiff and hard


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## fatboylim (May 19, 2017)

Great to hear khashy and Danso! How well does CCK cabon sharpen? Can it get to shaving sharp or even screaming sharp?


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## khashy (May 19, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Great to hear khashy and Danso! How well does CCK cabon sharpen? Can it get to shaving sharp or even screaming sharp?



Shaving sharp - easily. Screaming sharp - I'm working on my skills [emoji12].

Joking aside, I think there is a video on YouTube of someone actually shaving with it


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## fatboylim (May 19, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Great to hear khashy and Danso! How well does CCK cabon sharpen? Can it get to shaving sharp or even screaming sharp?



Awesome, that's all it needs and likely tougher for it. I just went to seewoo this morning and picked up a 1302 (no 1303 available)! So tempted to get a heavy chopper but I just wouldn't use it enough!

I'm going to sharpen it and test it out on butternut squash for lunch. I'll see if it our does the Toyama 210 Nakiri!


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## khashy (May 19, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Awesome, that's all it needs and likely tougher for it. I just went to seewoo this morning and picked up a 1302 (no 1303 available)! So tempted to get a heavy chopper but I just wouldn't use it enough!
> 
> I'm going to sharpen it and test it out on butternut squash for lunch. I'll see if it our does the Toyama 210 Nakiri!



Nice. Bet you didn't expect it to be that thin! I hope you like it.

For a heavy chopper, buy a generic one, no need to pay extra for a CCK. You won't need to have it super razor sharp


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## mjami (May 19, 2017)

depends on the pumpkin, butternut is really soft and not a problem for a thin knife.
hokkaido on the other hand can be hard like stone and I wouldnt go anywhere near those with a thin japanese knife, so my 12inch Sabatier takes care of them instead.


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## fatboylim (May 19, 2017)

khashy said:


> Nice. Bet you didn't expect it to be that thin! I hope you like it.
> 
> For a heavy chopper, buy a generic one, no need to pay extra for a CCK. You won't need to have it super razor sharp



Well it was worth trying the CCK carbon and for the price it is very good. Does it beat the Toyama Nakiri? Not really but it was fun! Can it be effective on butternut squash yes!

The obvious difference is in the cutting techniques of the blades; most noted when taking the head and base off the pumpkin. 

A ) Using a light Chinese cleaver, the lack of weight and lack of belly means that push cutting is more practical than accordian cutting. I found the need for more pressure on the ball of my hand closest to the index finger. 
B ) using a Nakiri with a radial "belly" does allow for accordian cutting especially for the longer 210 Toyama. This means the power is spread across the palm of the hand like a hammer. So while the nakiri is thicker than the CCK, the control, power and positioning feels better. 

So whilst the thinness of the CCK 1302 aids performance, the efficency is somewhat lost by the lack of leverage without accordian cutting and lack of weight for push cutting.

Regarding sharpness, I could get the CCK carbon up to shaving sharpness which is always enjoyable. But the Toyama gets sharper. 

All on all it is a fun knife and given the CCK is 1/6th the price of a Toyama, it definitely has its uses. It will not replace my Toyama Nakiri 210. But, no regrets in buying the CCK and on volume veg prep it will be useful. 

Regarding the recommendation to try a slicer on butternut squash, it is making me think that a 270 slicer could be ideal to make the accordian cuts easier. It has got me thinking! 

Just some thoughts only and worth trying for yourselves.


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## fatboylim (May 19, 2017)

Added note worth mentioning. I did need to sharpen the CCK as it is dull out of the box. My first sharpening got me to newspaper cutting sharpness in around 10 minutes. My thoughts above were based on this level of sharpness. I have since done a longer sharpen using different stones and getting better bite and shaving sharpness (but not quite as good as Toyama sharpness). I'll see if this extra sharpness makes a difference.


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## khashy (May 19, 2017)

Glad you're having fun mate. You've tempted me to spend some time on the stones tomorrow


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## fatboylim (May 19, 2017)

Definitely try different stones. For some reason my natural stones that I use normally for carbon blades was less effective than my synthetic stones that is use on lower HRC stainless steel blades. Might be worth experimenting.


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## fatboylim (May 20, 2017)

Slightly off topic, interesting the CCK 1302 works well for crusty topped bread cutting. I remember this trick from my dad 30 years ago!


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## khashy (May 20, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Slightly off topic, interesting the CCK 1302 works well for crusty topped bread cutting. I remember this trick from my dad 30 years ago!



Ha! Would never have occurred to me


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