# A better bolognese



## chiffonodd (Nov 15, 2015)

I've been messing around for a while, trying to figure out how to make a decent bolognese. I have no actual culinary training (this will probably soon become apparent, if it has not already), so I am piecing my techniques/recipes together from various books and websites. Thought I'd finally post a recent attempt and see if anyone knows how to do this right! 

Here is the official recipe, according to the Italian Academy of Cuisine: http://*******.com/p3yfnty

I did not follow this exactly -- in fact i only just found it while making this post -- but followed similar principles. So without further ado. . . 

*1. Ingredients*







Onion/carrot/celery for mirepoix (soffritto/battuto?), garlic, san marzano tomatoes, bottle of white, ground beef, pork, lamb, cream, aged parm, beef stock. Unfortunately the store was out of pancetta so this time i had to substitute bacon. Added a bit of a smoky flavor -- but not my bag. Prefer the italian stuff.

*Also I still haven't had a chance to get my board down to PDX from Seattle. New job is a killer. So am cutting (very carefully!!) on the plastic monstrosity for now.*

*2. Soffritto*






Probably not gonna win any awards for my knife skills any time soon, but at least the kochi makes practice fun. This thing whispers through onion same as my ginga and has basically no stiction when dicing carrot. Awesome food release too. Can it correct my ratios in the mirepoix? No  But something to think about for next time.

*3. Time for the garlic*






I usually bust out this little akifusa santoku for garlic or shallots. I especially prefer it for garlic because garlic is a PITA to clean off a knife, and since it's stainless i can set it aside while i go about my business with the gyuto. Nice little knife, but not as refined I think as the gesshin version.

*4. Akifusa*






Speaking of, you can see here that the knife could definitely be thinner behind the edge. Need to round and polish the choil too. A project for when the work hours die down a bit. People can do their own window shopping and compare these to the kagero pics on the JKI website. I think folks have pretty much come to their conclusions about these respective models.

*5. Bacon*






Pig!! Just not pancetta 

*6. Ground meat*






Beef, pork, lamb at 2:1:1.

*7. Tomato*






San Marzano, whole. Crushed through fingers.

*8. Fat*






Melting butter in olive oil

*9. In go the aromatics . . .* 






*10. Adding bacon*






Toss in the "pancetta" 

*11. Fond*






Forming some good fond as the bacon crips a bit.

*12. Adding the ground meat*






Adding the meat a bit at a time to prevent too much fat from rendering at once. Don't want to boil in fat.

*13. Done browning the meat/carmelizing the veg*






Got some serious fond going now. Time to deglaze!

*14. deglazed*






Deglazed with white

*15. Tomato*






Added the beef stock and tomato

*16. Cream*






Stirred in some cream. Okay a lot of cream. Bring to boil then reduce to simmer. Cover halfway and wait. 

*17. Halfway*






At about the two hour mark

*18. Done*






At about four hours . . . time to boil some water (salted of course) and break out the basil and parm.

*19. Basil*






Sorry kochi. Nothing beats a laser for chiffonade. 

*20. More basil*






Stack 'em up and roll

*21. Toss*






Drained the pasta, swirled some butter in the pot, and tossed with the sauce, basil, and cheese.

*22. "Plated"*






Served with more cheese and basil

--

So yeah, came out pretty good but I want to take things to the next level. When you guys want to really nail bolognese, what do you do?


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## SousVideLoca (Nov 15, 2015)

Knife porn and food porn. The perfect post.

And that's more or less how I make mine - it's bolognese, keep it simple.


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## ecchef (Nov 15, 2015)

Looks fine to me! 
Can't get pancetta here (without selling a kidney anyway) but Japanese bacon works just as well. Not a fan of lamb in Bolognese; prefer veal. I also give it a whisper of nutmeg.
Good job.


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## DamageInc (Nov 15, 2015)

Looks really good. Hard to give feedback without tasting it though.

After lots of trial and error I found my own preferred way. It's more or less your recipe but with some tweaks.

I don't use cream, but rather whole milk where I add the first half, then let reduce, before adding the second half. I find that the pork adds enough richness and the cream makes it too heavy. I also use less canned tomatoes as they can be rather watery. For a deeper tomato flavor, I fry some quality tomato puree in olive oil until dark brick red and add to the meats and veggies before deglazing. I don't use white wine, but red wine, and only around half a glass. This gets reduced down to a syrup before the stock and milk is added. If I have some fresh tomatoes, I'll roast them in the oven until half-dried before blending them and adding to the sauce. I usually also add a large sprig of thyme and a bunch of dried oregano. If I feel the need for spice, I add dried peperoncini.

I don't simmer it as long as you did as I find the meat gets too mushy. I like it tender, but still with a little bite. Max 1½-2 hours for me. To make sure the cooking time of the vegetables fits this, I dice it ultra small. My friend once saw my vegetables after they were prepped and asked me if I had used a food processor...

I've never used lamb, but I should probably try it. I would be worried about making the sauce too sweet, as lamb can have that effect.

And right before serving, I mix in a small spoonful of roughly chopped capers to the sauce just to give a small vinegar touch. If you want to boost the meaty flavor of your sauce, chop up two preserved (in olive oil) anchovy fillets and fry them along with your meat. No-one will ever know you put fish in there, but it gives an extra little 3% of flavor.

That's all I could really think of off the top of my head.


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## malexthekid (Nov 15, 2015)

My two favourite recipes are: Antonio Carluccio's traditional bolognese in his "Pasta" cook book of you ate after a real traditional bolognese or Stephanie Alexander's "Cooks Companion" if you are after a decadent one. Both delicious just different styles.


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## lumo (Nov 15, 2015)

Nice job...making me hungry! 
This one is special to me and I have also practiced it for years, still try to make it better every time. My recipe was based on Marcella Hazan's Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking, trying to recreate what I had in Bologna, advice from chefs and personal taste of course. Differences with mine are that I use fresh sage and rosemary, milk in place of cream, veal stock and brodo in place of beef stock, a little crushed red pepper and then finish with seared chopped chicken livers.


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## larrybard (Nov 15, 2015)

No salt (except in water), because there's already enough in bacon and perhaps canned tomatoes?


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## marc4pt0 (Nov 15, 2015)

Looks great! 
You already know pancetta makes it betta, so that's that. 
I'm not a big fan of too much cream in mine. Sometimes a splash, but I usually mount the heck out of it with butter in the end. Then hit it with a mix of chopped chives, rosemary and thyme. Not basil. But that's just another personal preference.


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## Chuckles (Nov 15, 2015)

You could throw in the rind off of some Grana Padano when you add the liquid and remove it at the end of cooking.


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## 99Limited (Nov 15, 2015)

Chuckles said:


> You could throw in the rind off of some Grana Padano when you add the liquid and remove it at the end of cooking.



:yeahthat:

I'll add to that advice. Take the cooked rind, cut it into bite size pieces and snack on it while you're finishing with your cooking.


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## Asteger (Nov 15, 2015)

Hmm... Similar for me, but fresh rosemary and some grated nutmeg instead of basil, no pancetta/bacon/pork. White wine, yes, and kind of Hazan-inspired overall. Can't resist a little dried chili too, and if included then garlic as well.

Forgot about using the rinds, and now remember I have several kept waiting in the freezer.


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## panda (Nov 15, 2015)

Guanciale and serrano. cook the basil in the sauce whole leaves, bay leaves, chili flakes. Whole crushed garlic. Fry the meat separate from veg, with a hard sear. Previously reduced chicken stock. No cream, just finished with butter. parsley stems with the mire poix. Use an acidic white wine, pour half and drink the other, that part is crucial. I like to top with fresh diced campari tomatoes tossed with fresh garlic and lemon juice.


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## Jordanp (Nov 15, 2015)

For me I do a 2:1:1 Veal, Beef, Lamb ratio on the meat and prefer double smoked bacon as opposed to prosciutto and rose wine instead of white. I brown my meat before the vegetables then take the meat out and brown the vegetables/bacon next , deglaze, add the crushed tomato's, beef stock, thyme , rosemary, chili flake, bay and cook till the vegetables are soft then puree the mixture, add back the meat and let reduce till half , add the cream and reduce to desired consistency.


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## jackslimpson (Nov 15, 2015)

Bravo, Signore. Bravo. Looks magnificent. Sembra delizioso e squisito. The urge to suggest noce moscato, or anything else is high, to the extent we cannot taste, that we are not witnesses to YOUR ingredients. If it's one thing I've learned from eating in Italy, Bologna and Modena especially, it's the ingredients that call for tweaks. If all else is rich, no nutmeg necessary. if all is a little mild, a good scrape of nutmeg might be called for. If your meats are a little gamey, some juniper or rosemary might be called for. For every 100 people in Emilia-Romagna, there are 130 ways to make it -- though each will claim there's only one RIGHT way. Still, I'm glad you took the trouble. it's a luxurious payoff for patience and tradition. Besides, it's a great dish for some intensive knife skills.

Cheers,

Jack


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## dmccurtis (Nov 15, 2015)

Looks lovely. Replace the lamb with veal, whole tomatoes with paste, cream with milk, bacon or pancetta with guanciale, and add a few chicken livers, and you have my version. Finished by mounting with plenty of butter, and eaten until you regret it.


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## chiffonodd (Nov 15, 2015)

Thanks everyone for all the great feedback and ideas! Really cool to read about all the different ways that great cooks can make this dish their own. I'm very excited to try these techniques :cookingdinner:



panda said:


> No cream, just finished with butter...





DamageInc said:


> I don't use cream, but rather whole milk where I add the first half, then let reduce, before adding the second half. I find that the pork adds enough richness and the cream makes it too heavy...





marc4pt0 said:


> I'm not a big fan of too much cream in mine. Sometimes a splash, but I usually mount the heck out of it with butter in the end....





dmccurtis said:


> Replace the lamb with veal, whole tomatoes with paste, cream with milk...



Seems to be a strong consensus on this issue! It was definitely a heavy sauce this time around. Will stick to just milk in the future.


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## panda (Nov 15, 2015)

If you want to use cream, do mostly cream for a pink sauce (marinara and Alfredo), delicious with gnocchi and salami.


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 16, 2015)

looks great.


i use tomato paste, chopped anchovies or chopped chicken livers. and sometimes i play around with a panade. (<--i just butchered the spelling, huh?)


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## jackslimpson (Nov 16, 2015)

Your tagliatelle looked good, too. Did you make it yourself? It all looked pretty close to right on.




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Cheers,

Jack


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## WildBoar (Nov 16, 2015)

Damn, that looks good! I haven't made it with the cream in it for that long; I'm used to just splashing in a little at the end; I suspect your version is a little richer. Like others have said, there are many, many variations. But of course there is only one RIGHT WAY, and that is to use cinghiale... :cool2:


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## chiffonodd (Nov 17, 2015)

jackslimpson said:


> Your tagliatelle looked good, too. Did you make it yourself? It all looked pretty close to right on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Store-bought i'm afraid, but there are some great natural foods markets around here that sell fresh pasta. 

As for the picture, is that the official measurement kept at La Camera di Commercio di Bologna? Perhaps it is geeky to say but I think it is very cool that such a thing exists. :doublethumbsup:


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## chiffonodd (Nov 17, 2015)

WildBoar said:


> Damn, that looks good! I haven't made it with the cream in it for that long; I'm used to just splashing in a little at the end; I suspect your version is a little richer. Like others have said, there are many, many variations. But of course there is only one RIGHT WAY, and that is to use cinghiale... :cool2:



Haha there is literally an entire italian wikipedia page devoted to that namesake of yours (or at least a related dish). https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappardelle_sul_cinghiale

Drool . . .


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## DamageInc (Nov 17, 2015)

Please update the thread next time you make a bolognese. I'd love to see what you decide to do.


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## cheflivengood (Nov 17, 2015)

As funny as it sounds pick up the Ivan Ramen  cook book and see how he makes his soffrito for Shio Ramen. That will make the base of your flavor better and deepen the color as well. We always used short rib trim to make our bolognese for staff meal (no ground beef in the restaurant), much better that way :doublethumbsup:


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## jackslimpson (Nov 17, 2015)

chiffonodd said:


> Store-bought i'm afraid, but there are some great natural foods markets around here that sell fresh pasta.
> 
> As for the picture, is that the official measurement kept at La Camera di Commercio di Bologna? Perhaps it is geeky to say but I think it is very cool that such a thing exists. :doublethumbsup:


 
Yes, indeed. On a visit there, I committed to seeing it. It would be a test of my patience and my Italian. Everyone who helped me get to it were very nice and patient. It was a byzantine process. The girls who actually guard the thing were genuinely puzzled anyone would take the trouble. It was kept in a safe in an office with about 8 people. The safe looked like it had a bunch of files and a few other objects. The Tagliatelle d'Oro was just one thing among many. They brought it out, and set it on a credenza in the hallway for me to look at and to photograph. They asked me why I wanted to. I said, I love to cook and have been enamored by Bologna and it's cuisine. They still looked at me as if they were confused. I asked if I could take a picture of them standing aside the Tagliatelle, but each gave excuses not too: I don't like my clothes, I don't like my picture taken, I'm wearing my glasses today. Odd. Anyway, I thanked them and left, failing to retrace my steps and bothering more unsuspecting people who guided me out. Everyone was nice and patient, but the "You're Not Allowed In Here" vibe was heavy. Right before I made it out the door, one of the girls brought me this great brochure about Bologna and it's cuisine, along with all of the "Official" recipes of their specialties. It is an invaluable reference.

Cheers,

Jack


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## DamageInc (Oct 31, 2016)

It's been a while but I remembered we had a thread on bolognese, so I figured it would be better to revive it than start a new one for a single question.

Do any of you add an egg yolk to a bolognese upon serving for some extra luxury creaminess? I remember seeing a photo of this in the "what's cooking?" thread. If you do add an egg yolk, do you leave it whole or mix it in?


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## WildBoar (Oct 31, 2016)

I don't add egg yolk, but instead add a little heavy cream. A little goes a long way. It's a nice flavor boost plus it improves the texture.


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## DamageInc (Oct 31, 2016)

I do that but with creme fraiche sometimes, as the tangy-ness can be quite nice against the rich sauce. I was just asking because I have a few leftover egg yolks.


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## malexthekid (Oct 31, 2016)

You guys be crazy.... I have taken to doing a more traditional recipe (from antonio carluccio). 50-50 beef and pork mince, no garlic, white wine. If I want to be adventurous and move it from bolognese territory i put some fennel seeds in.

No egg, no cream.

Alternatively, if you want one of the richest ever stephanie alexander does one that is just devine... I am pretty sure every bite takes a year off your life but damn its good.


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## DamageInc (Oct 31, 2016)

I've never been the type to equate tradition with quality without exception. Traditions are nice and all, but the strict dedication to following the "right" way can lead to irrational discrediting of legitimate ways to create great flavor.

I don't use guanciale in my carbonara either.


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## WildBoar (Oct 31, 2016)

I agree. It took me over 40 years, but I eventually started messing with the tomato sauce recipe I grew up on, which came through one of my grandmothers. A few little additions here and there made it go from 'good' to 'great'. Same with the meatball. The 'traditional' Russian food my wife sometimes makes screams out to be tweaked with ingredients that were not originally available. If I'm going to eat, why not eat something as tasty as possible?


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## AllanP (Oct 31, 2016)

I'm sure even if you go to Bologna, even the natives all cook it differently


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## DamageInc (Oct 31, 2016)

AllanP said:


> I'm sure even if you go to Bologna, even the natives all cook it differently



That's completely true.

Traditionally in Denmark, you NEVER put smoked paprika in your beef/pork hash, but it tastes so damn good. Taste trumps tradition every time in my book.


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## malexthekid (Oct 31, 2016)

AllanP said:


> I'm sure even if you go to Bologna, even the natives all cook it differently



I think there is no one recipe for it but there are more traditional and less.

They all taste great if done nicely. But just different.


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## guari (Oct 31, 2016)

Anchovies added at the very beggining of cooking are a killer in bolognese. 

I also cook the meat first at very high heat to help with lots of caramelisation, remove and lower the heat, then cook the vegetables on the same pot. 

Yuuuuummy stuff


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## aboynamedsuita (Oct 31, 2016)

Bolognese has piqued my interest recently interestingly it was after seeing the abomination those idiots made in the knuckleheads video posted by damage the other day.

I agree with the earlier posts that there isn't really a right or wrong way to make something (I often buck at the trend of following "the recipe" in general), but there seemed to be a lot of things wrong there


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## preizzo (Oct 31, 2016)

General heavy cream and creme fresh aren't proper Italian ingredients, we don't use them in our traditional receipt but I agree that add additional ingredients to classic receipt sometime helps to bring up the flavours.


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## mille162 (Nov 5, 2016)

AllanP said:


> I'm sure even if you go to Bologna, even the natives all cook it differently




I was lucky enough to tour through Bologna a few years back and the Bolognese was amazing EVERYWHERE we ate. Got to share a particularly great dish of it with this guy one afternoon






On another trip through Tuscany region I had a very memorable version made with local wild boar and juniper berries. Tried it a few times at home but never even came close to the the dish I had so now I just stick to a beef/veal mixture..oh, and I add eggplant cubes to mine at the end. I find instead of anchovies, it's easier to cheat and keep this paste in the fridge: http://www.taste5umami.com

When I try to eat healthier I make a version with ground dark meat turkey instead of meat and to keep the turkey from drying out too much, sear it then set it aside and mix back in at the end. Def tastes better the next day so make a big pot of it.


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## tgfencer (Nov 7, 2016)

Wild boar bolognese sounds incredible.


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## spoiledbroth (Nov 7, 2016)

I've never heard of cream in bolognese though I don't think this is really Italian food per se


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## tgfencer (Nov 8, 2016)

spoiledbroth said:


> I've never heard of cream in bolognese though I don't think this is really Italian food per se



Me either. But thats the great thing about cooking, its always worth experimenting!


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