# Coticules



## cotedupy (Sep 3, 2022)

Along with the Turkish / Cretan Oilstone the Belgian Coticule probably has a strong claim to be the oldest whetstone in the world in terms of continued and ongoing use for blade sharpening. The Romans in fact were using both of those stones, and we all know they did rather well for themselves in terms of having more and better pointy, sharp things than the opposition.

Coticules seem to be getting some (completely justified) appreciation again here recently, but it doesn't look like we have a thread for them. So let's see and hear about your cotis...


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## cotedupy (Sep 3, 2022)

I'll start with a couple of very nice old 7x2s I found in the UK recently:


















I already had quite a few cotis so I put the first stone up on BST, which got snapped up cleverly by @PeterL, and I immediately regretted selling - vintage cotis that size and thickness aren't particularly common at all.

But god was looking kindly on me, because not a week later I found the second stone in a tiny little old tool shop. And looking at them more closely together it was clear that while they are different types or veins, they've also been cut in exactly the same way, to the same specs. I presume sold originally by the same UK distributor/cutler/toolmaker. And I will not make the same mistake twice... this new one stays with me .


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## cotedupy (Sep 3, 2022)

Another couple of recent UK ebay pickups...

This one came in a lot with a couple of Saxonians (!). People call stones like these ‘bouts rustique’, this one is very fine and quite hard:











And an ancient hanging paddle stone, from some weird, old unknown vein. This is on the softer side and very quick:


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## inferno (Sep 3, 2022)

i have 2 cotis from newly mined stock. i'd say these are 6-8k somewhere. 
i bought these for razors but they did not perform. too dull. 

cotis are usually priced by width. the wider the more expensive. i guess the layers are warped so wider sizes are less common. 






makes a good kasumi. carbon-iron











here we can see 3 different layers. the top triangle is much finer and i think this is what people are referring to when they talk razor stones. its both finer, smoother and faster. its just a better layer for everything.
i now use these 2 naguras as cleaners for all my mid to fine stones. especially the synth finishers. they are the best cleaners/uncloggers for fine grit stones.






just want to show off my uchi too


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## Rangen (Sep 3, 2022)

inferno said:


> i have 2 cotis from newly mined stock. i'd say these are 6-8k somewhere.
> i bought these for razors but they did not perform. too dull.


Just getting into cotis, but I think that's how it works, not sure why. I got a great shaving edge from an old, seriously dished coti I picked up at auction. I knew it was a good sign when the seller said it was his dad's, and included a bonus straight razor in the shipment. Although there are the modern La Lunes that are said to make a nice edge on a razor.

That is one seriously gorgeous uchi.


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## inferno (Sep 3, 2022)

i love that uchi. creates a perfect 3-4k haze. no silver streaks. good for edges too i found. 

these days i just use the shapton 12k and the gokumyo 20k for razors. they are fast and good. i just splash my face 2-3 times before lathering up so i need the sharpest blade for this to work. the 20k gok is about a lightyear ahead of my cotis here. no ****. but you also have to be very careful. the edges it produce takes no prisoners. not mild at all. not smooth either. but its sharp enough.


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## Legion74 (Sep 3, 2022)

For a long time this was my go to combo for razors. A big fast LPB, which can set a bevel, and go up to 95% finish. Then a hard, slow La Verte to finish. I could do it all with one stone, but why bother jumping through hoops.


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## Legion74 (Sep 3, 2022)

This one I traded off the man himself. 

It is an old, unbacked bout. I suspect very old, since the hole indicates it predates the antique paddle box. Who knows what this stone has seen.


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## cotedupy (Sep 4, 2022)

Legion74 said:


> This one I traded off the man himself.
> 
> It is an old, unbacked bout. I suspect very old, since the hole indicates it predates the antique paddle box. Who knows what this stone has seen.
> 
> View attachment 197092




It is rather nice that one isn't it, with the top of the paddle carved exactly for the stone. One of the first cotis I ever got I think, though better with you than me, as I'm still not brilliant at using narrow razor hones.


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## Legion74 (Sep 4, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> It is rather nice that one isn't it, with the top of the paddle carved exactly for the stone. One of the first cotis I ever got I think, though better with you than me, as I'm still not brilliant at using narrow razor hones.


More a razor hone than knife. But honestly, I just wanted it because it interested me as an artifact. I have several cotis that work as well, but I just thought the mystery hole, etc was cool. I imagined it hanging off some Romans belt, or whatever. Probably silly rubbish.


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## Heckel7302 (Sep 5, 2022)

I just scored a nice (looking anyway) natural combi from ebay. It should arrive in about a week. Question, should I get a bout to raise a proper slurry or can my 1200 Atoma serve this purpose (will be using it for kitchen knives, not into razors)?

Regardless, looking forward to seeing what these Coti/bbw are all about.


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## cotedupy (Sep 5, 2022)

Heckel7302 said:


> I just scored a nice (looking anyway) natural combi from ebay. It should arrive in about a week. Question, should I get a bout to raise a proper slurry or can my 1200 Atoma serve this purpose (will be using it for kitchen knives, not into razors)?
> 
> Regardless, looking forward to seeing what these Coti/bbw are all about.




Nice one! Definitely post some pics when you can.

Imo - if you want a coti very fast, with really toothy edges on a knife then atoma slurry is the way to go. Though a slurry stone would probably save the life of the base stone a bit.

How big is it? You could always saw some off for a slurry stone. It's very easy to saw.


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## Heckel7302 (Sep 5, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Nice one! Definitely post some pics when you can.
> 
> Imo - if you want a coti very fast, with really toothy edges on a knife then atoma slurry is the way to go. Though a slurry stone would probably save the life of the base stone a bit.
> 
> How big is it? You could always saw some off for a slurry stone. It's very easy to saw.


Here’s some pics from the eBay seller. It’s 8” long, somewhat irregular shaped, 1.5-2” wide. I did think about cutting off an end, but it seems there’s value in length, so would probably just buy a bote if I want to try it.


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## cotedupy (Sep 5, 2022)

Heckel7302 said:


> Here’s some pics from the eBay seller. It’s 8” long, somewhat irregular shaped, 1.5-2” wide. I did think about cutting off an end, but it seems there’s value in length, so would probably just buy a bote if I want to try it. View attachment 197291
> View attachment 197292
> View attachment 197293
> View attachment 197294




Oh my word that's awesome! I love the irregular cut, general old-school vibe, and a good amount of life left in it. 

It's impossible to say for certain with old coticules really, but it looks like it could be La Veinette. Which would be a very good thing indeed - one of the absolute best coticule veins for both knives and razors. And if it is then you may not even need to slurry it, LaV can be very soft, while still being fine and exceptionally quick.


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## Heckel7302 (Sep 5, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Oh my word that's awesome! I love the irregular cut, general old-school vibe, and a good amount of life left in it.
> 
> It's impossible to say for certain with old coticules really, but it looks like it could be La Veinette. Which would be a very good thing indeed - one of the absolute best coticule veins for both knives and razors. And if it is then you may not even need to slurry it, LaV can be very soft, while still being fine and exceptionally quick.


Will see when I get it. I’m hopeful that the visible lines are manganese, which I’ve read is a very good thing. Of course no way to truly know if it’s a LaV, but happy to suggest it might be.


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## cotedupy (Sep 5, 2022)

A few more of mine...







The nearest stone (not a coticule) is something called a 'Goldfisch Wetzstein' which is a from a layer of La Lorraine.

The one next to it I sold, the coticule was very fine, and probably extremely good for razors.

The third is a strange stone cut with a very thick layer of BBW, and both sides are fast and coarse:







The huge stone at the end is almost certainly La Veinette, and it's one of the most extraordinary whetstones I've ever used. It self slurries with ease and is incredibly fast while finishing very fine. The edges on knives are perfection, and the BBW side polishes really beautifully (I think anyway):


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## deltaplex (Sep 5, 2022)

Heckel7302 said:


> Here’s some pics from the eBay seller. It’s 8” long, somewhat irregular shaped, 1.5-2” wide. I did think about cutting off an end, but it seems there’s value in length, so would probably just buy a bote if I want to try it. View attachment 197291
> View attachment 197292
> View attachment 197293
> View attachment 197294



I guess it's good that this jumped above my willing to pay point relatively quickly...


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## Heckel7302 (Sep 5, 2022)

deltaplex said:


> I guess it's good that this jumped above my willing to pay point relatively quickly...


I got into a bidding war pretty early on it with one other person. Then got sneaky and set up an auto bid snipe. Probably would have paid less if I had done that before bidding it up against them, but still got it for under $100, which seems like a good deal for an 8” natural combo. Sorry if it was you I was bidding against!


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## deltaplex (Sep 5, 2022)

I wasn't; I've got a decent feel for pricing variability on these and once it hops above it, I just watch it.


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## Legion74 (Sep 7, 2022)

I like this one for quick straight razor touch ups. It might be a Le Dressante, but not sure. The manganese lines look cool, like sound waves.


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## Legion74 (Sep 7, 2022)

This was a big, fast coti, with a lot of blush. It had clearly been used as a knife stone, from the dishing. 

Rather than flush a lot of yellow stone down the drain, I decided to cut the ends off into slurry stones, and just flatten the middle.


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## riba (Sep 7, 2022)

Here is one of my little ones



Very fast. Refined but toothy edge.
The size surprisingly doesn't bother me, great as in-hand touch up stone too.

Bought it for no money from _Ardennes Coticule_


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## cotedupy (Sep 7, 2022)

Legion74 said:


> This was a big, fast coti, with a lot of blush. It had clearly been used as a knife stone, from the dishing.
> 
> Rather than flush a lot of yellow stone down the drain, I decided to cut the ends off into slurry stones, and just flatten the middle.
> 
> ...




_Why it’s nothing more than than a block of dried coticule powder m’lud...




_


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## cotedupy (Sep 7, 2022)

A few beauties above, so to redress the balance here’s a (currently) ugly duckling I won last week.

I was the only the bidder on this - sometimes they just slip though - but there’s also a fair bit of risk here which probably put people off. While I’m 99% sure this is a coti, by the look of it a big un, I also have no idea how thick it is and how much will be left once I’ve lapped through the gauges. So we’ll see what pops out when I’m back home tomorrow...


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## musicman980 (Sep 7, 2022)

Legion74 said:


> This was a big, fast coti, with a lot of blush. It had clearly been used as a knife stone, from the dishing.
> 
> Rather than flush a lot of yellow stone down the drain, I decided to cut the ends off into slurry stones, and just flatten the middle.
> 
> ...


Nice save, what dimensions are you left with?


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## Legion74 (Sep 8, 2022)

musicman980 said:


> Nice save, what dimensions are you left with?


A little under 2x6"


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## Heckel7302 (Sep 14, 2022)

Finally got the new stone home today. It cleaned up really nice. Looking forward to figuring these things out. 

7 7/8” x 1.5-1.75” x 7/8”

The coti side is flat as can be. The dark line is definitely a crack, but I can’t feel it. Something to keep an eye on. 




The BBW side was pretty flat as well. Also a crack, but in a different place than the coti side, so not something that goes all the way through. 











Where the BBW appears to rise up it seems like it’s something different is sandwiched between the layers. It’s a little darker and seems sparklier. Not sure what that’s about. 




Of course these are renowned razor honers, so I figured I should also get a straight razor and see what that’s all about too. Picked up this vintage Boker for a song.


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## Heckel7302 (Oct 14, 2022)

Just saw this mother load of cotis and of course immediately thought of @cotedupy It’s on your side of the pond!









Vintage coticule, belgian coticule,sharpening stone, straight razor | eBay


I know the fragility of the stone and especially the coticule: especially a collection as old as this one.



www.ebay.com


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## captaincaed (Oct 14, 2022)

Holy guacamole


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## cotedupy (Oct 15, 2022)

Heckel7302 said:


> Just saw this mother load of cotis and of course immediately thought of @cotedupy It’s on your side of the pond!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Crikey! I didn't know Nicolas was selling those off in massive lots too. Those will go for a lot, and then get re-sold by someone else.

(He's the owner of this store: 1STONE | Manufacture de pierres ).


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## cotedupy (Oct 15, 2022)

Heckel7302 said:


> Finally got the new stone home today. It cleaned up really nice. Looking forward to figuring these things out.
> 
> 7 7/8” x 1.5-1.75” x 7/8”
> 
> ...




That's a beautiful stone! Very similar look and transition to one I found recently, coticule was very hard indeed and med quick.


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## Heckel7302 (Oct 15, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> That's a beautiful stone! Very similar look and transition to one I found recently, coticule was very hard indeed and med quick.


Yeah, it’s nice. Still figuring it out really. 

And there was another of those lots, smaller, but still quite a few. Of course you know the guy…









Vintage coticule, belgian coticule,sharpening stone, straight razor | eBay


I know the fragility of the stone and especially the coticule: especially a collection as old as this one.



www.ebay.com


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## Kaisersoze (Oct 30, 2022)

Where do most people buy their coticules? Ebay seems a bit hit or miss. Are the Ardennes Coticules for sale at places like sharpening supplies or some of the razor retailers griffith's etc all the same? It seems there used to be higher grades but they don't appear available anymore?


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## stringer (Oct 30, 2022)

Kaisersoze said:


> Where do most people buy their coticules? Ebay seems a bit hit or miss. Are the Ardennes Coticules for sale at places like sharpening supplies or some of the razor retailers griffith's etc all the same? It seems there used to be higher grades but they don't appear available anymore?


eBay is tough except for smaller pocket ones. I can score them every once in awhile for $30-40 delivered. But it just depends on whether that format is good for you and how many times a day you check eBay.


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## cotedupy (Oct 31, 2022)

Kaisersoze said:


> Where do most people buy their coticules? Ebay seems a bit hit or miss. Are the Ardennes Coticules for sale at places like sharpening supplies or some of the razor retailers griffith's etc all the same? It seems there used to be higher grades but they don't appear available anymore?




Ebay and junk shops mostly. Though they're fairly tricky to find on the cheap because they're quite easy for people to ID. Plus larger sizes are very uncommon, especially in the US I think where they were really just imported as Barber's stones. If you can use sizes around 35-40mm width there'll be a lot more out there.

I think you might need to email Ardennes Coticules to ask about the 'Selected' and 'Selected+' versions. The latter I think are naturally bonded stones from Les Latneuses and La Veinette.


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## deltaplex (Oct 31, 2022)

Kaisersoze said:


> Where do most people buy their coticules? Ebay seems a bit hit or miss. Are the Ardennes Coticules for sale at places like sharpening supplies or some of the razor retailers griffith's etc all the same? It seems there used to be higher grades but they don't appear available anymore?


Ebay in the US is super tight, there are enough people who can ID not properly labeled, stuck in a box with bad picture, stones that it's pretty rare to get one for under about $70 to your door for anything larger than the ~4"x~2". I'd think you might have more success at estate sales and junk shops, if you've got time and access for those.


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## Heckel7302 (Oct 31, 2022)

Kaisersoze said:


> Where do most people buy their coticules? Ebay seems a bit hit or miss. Are the Ardennes Coticules for sale at places like sharpening supplies or some of the razor retailers griffith's etc all the same? It seems there used to be higher grades but they don't appear available anymore?


You should buy the Coti 2 that @cotedupy just posted.  Great price, 6"x1"5 is a usable size for kitchen knives IMO. Then if you really like using coti/bbw you can continue to hunt for a longer/wider one. 

*





WTS - Washitas, Coticules, Charnley


Prices are in are in USD not including shipping, though can take the equivalent GBP or EUR. Ping me a message and I can find out post costs, I've recently found a very good and quite cheap international courier service, so it's probably less than you might expect. Wise preferred, though can do...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com




*


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## JPO (Nov 3, 2022)

I have a few from 1stone in France, and from Ardennes. 
You can email Ardennes directly and ask for a specific vein and size.
They don't list everything. Rob will answer emails normally within a day.


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## PineWood (Nov 4, 2022)

I happened to be in the Ardennes yesterday and couldn't resist stopping at Ardennes Coticule. I already have a BBW that I like very much, and a hybride coticule Les Latneuses, very dense and hard and more suitable for razors. 
It is a fairly small entreprise really, there is a dusty workshop, a small office and a room with stock where the orders are prepared, the size of a living room. No photos unfortunately, I left my phone in the car. I wanted a natural combi coticule-BBW but they are very, very rare in big sizes. Even the "normal" coticules (glued on slate) are very rare: I only counted 4 of the bench-sized ones (7,5 x 20 cm or 3 x 8 inch) versus hundreds of small coticules. I saw only two that were even bigger and they weren't finished, maybe a special order. I asked Rob Celis to pick the one out of four that would be best for kitchen knives, and I left with the stone below. According to him a top-notch coticule from the La Veinette layer. I could test the stone, and I got black swarf immediately, so this must be a very fast stone.





I was also wondering if there was a difference between Belgian Blue Whetstone and Rouge de Vielsalm, because all the BBW I saw (and the one I have) have a reddish/purple hue. So I asked and apparently Rouge de Vielsalm was just a brand name and the stones are exactly the same.


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## cotedupy (Nov 4, 2022)

PineWood said:


> I happened to be in the Ardennes yesterday and couldn't resist stopping at Ardennes Coticule. I already have a BBW that I like very much, and a hybride coticule Les Latneuses, very dense and hard and more suitable for razors.
> It is a fairly small entreprise really, there is a dusty workshop, a small office and a room with stock where the orders are prepared, the size of a living room. No photos unfortunately, I left my phone in the car. I wanted a natural combi coticule-BBW but they are very, very rare in big sizes. Even the "normal" coticules (glued on slate) are very rare: I only counted 4 of the bench-sized ones (7,5 x 20 cm or 3 x 8 inch) versus hundreds of small coticules. I saw only two that were even bigger and they weren't finished, maybe a special order. I asked Rob Celis to pick the one out of four that would be best for kitchen knives, and I left with the stone below. According to him a top-notch coticule from the La Veinette layer. I could test the stone, and I got black swarf immediately, so this must be a very fast stone.
> View attachment 206705
> 
> I was also wondering if there was a difference between Belgian Blue Whetstone and Rouge de Vielsalm, because all the BBW I saw (and the one I have) have a reddish/purple hue. So I asked and apparently Rouge de Vielsalm was just a brand name and the stones are exactly the same.




That is a right stunner isn't it, how lovely! Truly exceptional to have one that size.

It's interesting that so few of the modern stones from Ol Preu are natural combis, whereas almost all of the old ones I've found were. I've only had three or four that have been glued. Though I've only had one old stone of a comparable size (about 10x2.5), also La Veinette.

Stones from that vein do seem to be truly exceptional. The ones I've had have been like you describe - very fast though still fine, swarfing up almost instantly without the need for raising slurry.

Good to know that info about RdS too, it's something that confused a lot of people (myself included) for a while. I think it was getting mixed up with La Lorraine, which _is _a different rock I believe, and does not occur next to coticule.


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## cotedupy (Nov 4, 2022)

Current state of the kitchen table. Do I have a problem? Have I become a coticule dealer by mistake...?!?


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## BillHanna (Nov 4, 2022)

That _table _looks pretty sweet.


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## ethompson (Nov 4, 2022)

Reluctant stone dealer is a role all of us crazy addicts enthusiasts end up filling at some point


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## cotedupy (Nov 4, 2022)

Here are some pictures of a truly exceptional stone I found recently. It's about 200x45 and naturally bonded, probably La Veinette, or perhaps more accurately likely to be from a vein at the Old Rock quarry that is effectively very similar.

With beautiful Manganese lines and leafy 'dendrite' patterns, that often signify very high quality, fast stones, and are quite desirable among people who are into cotis / collectors. 

The stone is very fast and fine, with lovely silken feedback, and edges that are just perfection. The BBW too is predictably excellent and cut really nice and thick.






















However I stupidly made the mistake of offering it to someone, a decision that will probably still haunt me on my deathbed. So I'm going to use one last time today before sending off, and it's going to a good home at least, and someone who's sold me nice things in the past for not very much money... 

Enjoy @ethompson!


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## deltaplex (Nov 4, 2022)

You haven't truly been on KKF unless you've followed @cotedupy siren song for stones...


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## esoo (Nov 4, 2022)

I really need to try and play with this more - a 7" x1.5" bonded to BBW. I have a slurry stone that matches. Was PIF'ed to me back in my straight razor days so know little else about the stone.


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## cotedupy (Nov 4, 2022)

esoo said:


> I really need to try and play with this more - a 7" x1.5" bonded to BBW. I have a slurry stone that matches. Was PIF'ed to me back in my straight razor days so know little else about the stone.
> 
> View attachment 206716




Another beauty! Those very pure, milky white stones tend to be fairly fine (ime), but can also be quite fast especially if they’re on the softer side. Often regarded as very high quality.


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## cotedupy (Nov 4, 2022)

Here's a similar looking, though much smaller stone I got recently; soft, fast, fine, and just about the purest, brightest, milk-white coticule I've had.

Not bonded, just 120 x 35 x 7mm of coti.


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## esoo (Nov 4, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Another beauty! Those very pure, milky white stones tend to be fairly fine (ime), but can also be quite fast especially if they’re on the softer side. Often regarded as very high quality.



In my couple of attempts of use, it does seem to be extremely fine. Not sure about the speed.


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## Skylar303 (Nov 4, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Ebay and junk shops mostly. Though they're fairly tricky to find on the cheap because they're quite easy for people to ID. Plus larger sizes are very uncommon, especially in the US I think where they were really just imported as Barber's stones. If you can use sizes around 35-40mm width there'll be a lot more out there.
> 
> I think you might need to email Ardennes Coticules to ask about the 'Selected' and 'Selected+' versions. The latter I think are naturally bonded stones from Les Latneuses and La Veinette.


Standard, select, select+ are not for how the stone performs, just how the stone looks.


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## Luxusborg (Nov 4, 2022)

PineWood said:


> I happened to be in the Ardennes yesterday and couldn't resist stopping at Ardennes Coticule. I already have a BBW that I like very much, and a hybride coticule Les Latneuses, very dense and hard and more suitable for razors.
> It is a fairly small entreprise really, there is a dusty workshop, a small office and a room with stock where the orders are prepared, the size of a living room. No photos unfortunately, I left my phone in the car. I wanted a natural combi coticule-BBW but they are very, very rare in big sizes. Even the "normal" coticules (glued on slate) are very rare: I only counted 4 of the bench-sized ones (7,5 x 20 cm or 3 x 8 inch) versus hundreds of small coticules. I saw only two that were even bigger and they weren't finished, maybe a special order. I asked Rob Celis to pick the one out of four that would be best for kitchen knives, and I left with the stone below. According to him a top-notch coticule from the La Veinette layer. I could test the stone, and I got black swarf immediately, so this must be a very fast stone.
> View attachment 206705
> 
> I was also wondering if there was a difference between Belgian Blue Whetstone and Rouge de Vielsalm, because all the BBW I saw (and the one I have) have a reddish/purple hue. So I asked and apparently Rouge de Vielsalm was just a brand name and the stones are exactly the same.


Wow that is a beauty! I was also near AC on Tuesday but it was a 40 min drive from Durbuy finally so had to postpone my visit. Would you mind sharing the price you got this for? in a DM if you prefer. Thanks


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## Legion74 (Nov 4, 2022)

BillHanna said:


> That _table _looks pretty sweet.


I was about to say the same.


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## PineWood (Nov 5, 2022)

Luxusborg said:


> Wow that is a beauty! I was also near AC on Tuesday but it was a 40 min drive from Durbuy finally so had to postpone my visit. Would you mind sharing the price you got this for? in a DM if you prefer. Thanks


DM sent but the prices are public on the Ardennes Coticule website. The bigger, the more expensive... but still not as much as a high quality japanese stone (*justifying the expense to myself*)


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## cotedupy (Nov 9, 2022)

Here's a fun picture of some of mine atm which shows the quite significant variation these stones have... a coticule for every mood or occasion!


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## captaincaed (Nov 9, 2022)

Bonus points if you arrange them into a sunset with your awesome photography skills


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## Rideon66 (Nov 16, 2022)

That's a nice box of rocks. My LGB is still so slowly tanning. Surprised by how quick yours was to change color.


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## cotedupy (Nov 17, 2022)

Rideon66 said:


> That's a nice box of rocks. My LGB is still so slowly tanning. Surprised by how quick yours was to change color.




That wasn't the first one I got and posted the experiment with. That one in the pic I got a couple of weeks later and already had a healthy tan.


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## Rideon66 (Nov 17, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> That wasn't the first one I got, and posted the experiment with. That one in the pic I got a couple of weeks later and already had a healthy tan.


Ah that makes more sense then. I removed the penny as it clearly has tanned now so I know it is darkening. Only now it just hit freezing so the rock is back inside till spring. I will put it out once it warms again and see how dark I can get it. The sides are pretty dark on it from its original tan.


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## JPO (Nov 17, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> That wasn't the first one I got and posted the experiment with. That one in the pic I got a couple of weeks later and already had a healthy tan.


There are not allot of places you can talk about how you are tanning your rock. 
If you tell a bartender he will probably stop serving you


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## Rideon66 (Nov 17, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> That wasn't the first one I got and posted the experiment with. That one in the pic I got a couple of weeks later and already had a healthy tan.


This is what mine looked like the day I found it. Unfortunately I had to lap it flat so I lost a lot of the cool color.


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## cotedupy (Nov 23, 2022)

Here's a post explaining a little more about the Manganese inclusions I mentioned above, in both Coticules and Belgian Blue Whetstone...

This kind of inclusion is generally regarded as quite desirable in Coticules, and it tends to take the form of either dark lines that look like cracks, or kinda blotchy leafy patterns called 'dendrites'. If you look at Tom's stone in the post above, those dark lines I imagine are Manganese, rather than cracks in the traditional sense. Here's a stone of mine with some dendrite type inclusions:








This one shows both lines and dendrites, you can see how they often occur together:







To be more precise this is Manganese Dioxide, also known as Pyrolusite, which is a black or dark blue coloured mineral with a slight metallic sheen, and it's softer than steel so it doesn't affect the sharpening ability. The reason it's regarded as desirable is because the formation of Pyrolusite happens along with that of Garnet, so stones with noticeable Manganese inclusions tend to have a high Garnet content and consequently be quite fast.

What's less commented on though is that the same Manganese inclusions can occur in BBW too, especially naturally bonded pieces from near the yellow coticule layer. You can see what it looks like in the blue-ish blobs here on the bottom of the stone and sides:












And in this picture of the same stone you can see one of these dark blue blobs extending from the BBW up into the coticule, where it becomes one of the leafy dendrite patterns in the first pic in this post:






---

So yeah - that's what Manganese inclusions are like in Coticules and BBW, and they’re worth looking out for.


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## cotedupy (Dec 3, 2022)

So here's an interesting thing... this a type of stone that I've only seen one other pic of ever, in the museum section of an old Coticule forum. And despite appearances it _is_ apparently a coticule - 'La Petite Blanche Special Sublayer':




Coticule049 - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone




Mine here is 8 x 2.25 and glued onto an equally thick piece of BBW. A very curious looking thing; the colour, particularly when wet, is quite beautiful, and like nothing else I’ve seen before. And yet it feels very distinctly coticule-like, both to the touch and under a blade.


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## Greenbriel (Dec 3, 2022)

cotedupy said:


>



Thanks for that last video, I used to think I was pretty good at sharpening! I can cut paper towels, but not like that! Back to the drawing board stones!

Here's my only coticule, I showed it a while back. I've been using the BBW side for touch ups recently, I think I should try using the coti side more.






Belgian Coticule vs. 240 Grit Sandpaper (a two-part review)


Coticule knife edges blow my mind. Belgian Coticules are often regarded as 'razor stones', and I can't for the life of me fathom why. To hone a razor on a coticule you need to go through all sorts of fancy prcoesses of gradual slurry dilution as you round out the abrasive garnets within...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





Your knowledge of these amazing stones never ceases to amaze. Happy Saturday!

Edit: just tried the coti side for a touchup and it's great!


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## BillHanna (Dec 3, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> So here's an interesting thing... this a type of stone that I've only seen one other pic of ever, in the museum section of an old Coticule forum. And despite appearances it _is_ apparently a coticule - 'La Petite Blanche Special Sublayer':


I saw some bouts of these for sale b/w coticules. I wasn’t paying attention/didn’t know that it wasn’t bbw. Now I want it, just to have/play with it. 

You’ve spent a fair bit of my money recently, Oli.


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## BillHanna (Dec 3, 2022)

La Lune with a big ol green spot; does it affect anything, in anyone’s experience?


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## captaincaed (Dec 3, 2022)

Not to my knowledge


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## cotedupy (Dec 3, 2022)

BillHanna said:


> La Lune with a big ol green spot; does it affect anything, in anyone’s experience?




I'd be with CC above - in most purple slate-y things it shouldn't affect it. 

I've only had my La Lune for about a day (received along with the red coti), and it only has one or two tiny blobs of green, so I can't comment definitively. But they seem like the kinda green blobs that wouldn't be a problem.


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## Rideon66 (Dec 3, 2022)

BillHanna said:


> La Lune with a big ol green spot; does it affect anything, in anyone’s experience?


No the green spots don't effect anything and I don't even notice or feel any difference. They look cool though. "La Lune" stone is a sedimentary slate which has undergone a mineral transformation called Redox. It is quite possible on certain hones to observe green mineral spots in the form of dots or oval shape which are natural material pockets which does not represent any danger or toxicity for steel, this color is due to conditions where more “reducing” has occurred causing Clinochlore (Chlorite)
The exact mineral composition of "La Lune" hones is: Chlorite, quartz, sericite also composed of microlites of rutiles and tourmaline.


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## cotedupy (Dec 6, 2022)

Here's an interesting, rather pretty and highly unusual stone, which is like nothing I've come across before:












It's one of the fastest natural stones I've ever used, maybe even the fastest; easily up there with the quickest Washitas, and broadly comparable to an SG500. Perhaps even slightly quicker, though the Coticule will finish in the 1k - 2k range. (So it's also easily the coarsest coti I've ever had).






Your browser is not able to display this video.










Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## enchappo (Dec 7, 2022)

I have nothing meaningful to say about these stones since they just got delivered today and I haven’t tried them yet (hence the slightly dodgy / immediately post unwrapping pics), but I wouldn’t be able to match @cotedupy ‘s insights anyway. So sharing just for fun.


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## cotedupy (Dec 7, 2022)

enchappo said:


> I have nothing meaningful to say about these stones since they just got delivered today and I haven’t tried them yet (hence the slightly dodgy / immediately post unwrapping pics), but I wouldn’t be able to match @cotedupy ‘s insights anyway. So sharing just for fun. View attachment 212764
> View attachment 212765
> 
> View attachment 212766




Oh sweet! They came from Armes Tools on UK ebay right? I was very tempted to pick up that one on the right myself - very unusual looking stone. Be interested to hear what you think.

The other one with the wavy, well-defined transition looks like the kind of stone that often came from the Old Rock quarry. Should be very good indeed.


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## enchappo (Dec 7, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Oh sweet! They came from Armes Tools on UK ebay right? I was very tempted to pick up that one on the right myself - very unusual looking stone. Be interested to hear what you think.
> 
> The other one with the wavy, well-defined transition looks like the kind of stone that often came from the Old Rock quarry. Should be very good indeed.


The one on the right was from Ames Tools, the other one was from another guy in the UK who seems to have a bunch of hindos, washitas, etc.

What you no doubt already realised but I didn't is that the coticule side of the one on the right/top actually has two semi-distinct layers within it. I thought was just some grime/discolouration. I will report back (and could send your way for a try too I'm sure)


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## musicman980 (Dec 7, 2022)

enchappo said:


> The one on the right was from Ames Tools, the other one was from another guy in the UK who seems to have a bunch of hindos, washitas, etc.
> 
> What you no doubt already realised but I didn't is that the coticule side of the one on the right/top actually has two semi-distinct layers within it. I thought was just some grime/discolouration. I will report back (and could send your way for a try too I'm sure)


That thick blueish sublayer is a common feature in the "Old Rock" coticules, which are probably from the La Veinette layer. The white lines in the BBW also point to LV.


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## enchappo (Dec 7, 2022)

musicman980 said:


> That thick blueish sublayer is a common feature in the "Old Rock" coticules, which are probably from the La Veinette layer. The white lines in the BBW also point to LV.


OK, nice! I thought from a cursory Google this morning that it might have suggested TPB, but my knowledge on these (/all) stones is close to zero. I will report back on how it goes, although I even doubt my ability to meaningfully distinguish fast from slow and fine from not fine… I should be able to comment on hard vs soft!


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## musicman980 (Dec 7, 2022)

enchappo said:


> OK, nice! I thought from a cursory Google this morning that it might have suggested TPB, but my knowledge on these (/all) stones is close to zero. I will report back on how it goes, although I even doubt my ability to meaningfully distinguish fast from slow and fine from not fine… I should be able to comment on hard vs soft!


LPB is more of a thin blue layer. While vintage coticules could be from layers not mined anymore and unidentifiable, the white lines in the BBW here are so quintessential LV, paired with the natural combo and creamy surface. Check out Old Rock and Deep Rock coticules, you'll find some that look very similar.


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## cotedupy (Dec 8, 2022)

musicman980 said:


> That thick blueish sublayer is a common feature in the "Old Rock" coticules



Interesting C, I didn't know that. Would certainly have snapped up myself if I had! Sounds like you've done well with both of those @enchappo, nice scores. 

Quite a few of the old stones I've found in the UK, people (who know more about these things than I) have said looked like there were from the Old Rock quarry. Seems to be a happy hunting ground here.




enchappo said:


> What you no doubt already realised but I didn't is that the coticule side of the one on the right/top actually has two semi-distinct layers within it. I thought was just some grime/discolouration. I will report back (and could send your way for a try too I'm sure)




Unfortunately I'm back in the UK now rather than Aus, otherwise would certainly have been fun to try out. Look forward to hearing your thoughts though!


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## enchappo (Dec 8, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Sounds like you've done well with both of those @enchappo, nice scores.



Dumb luck obviously. And tbh I only bought two on a whim, with the idea that I'd sell the one I didn't gel with... so may well not keep both



cotedupy said:


> Unfortunately I'm back in the UK now rather than Aus, otherwise would certainly have been fun to try out. Look forward to hearing your thoughts though!



Oh right! That probably saves me from the temptation of buying more stones from you, so that's a good thing for my wallet.


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## jjlotti (Dec 12, 2022)

@cotedupy you and others had me looking for coticules and or bbw this weekend (that and just not happy anymore with my chosera 1k...) when something sparked this morning.. Am I already sitting on one? Let me get my homeboy @stringer (who I am completely behind getting out to his Cafe to see if the cookie chops match the rock skills! (backstory this was my grandfathers who had a barbershop. My father said he remembers him using shaving cream on it....)


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## cotedupy (Dec 12, 2022)

jjlotti said:


> @cotedupy you and others had me looking for coticules and or bbw this weekend (that and just not happy anymore with my chosera 1k...) when something sparked this morning.. Am I already sitting on one? Let me get my homeboy @stringer (who I am completely behind getting out to his Cafe to see if the cookie chops match the rock skills! (backstory this was my grandfathers who had a barbershop. My father said he remembers him using shaving cream on it....) View attachment 213603
> View attachment 213604
> View attachment 213605
> View attachment 213607
> ...




Oh that’s quite cool isn’t it!

It’s not a coticule though I’m afraid - it’s an old synthetic Barber’s Hone. But should work for knife (or particularly axe) sharpening, as well as razors.

I think I’ve seen that particular brand before, I’ll see if I can dig out any more info...


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## jjlotti (Dec 12, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Oh that’s quite cool isn’t it!
> 
> It’s not a coticule though I’m afraid - it’s an old synthetic Barber’s Hone. But should work for knife (or particularly axe) sharpening, as well as razors.
> 
> I think I’ve seen that particular brand before, I’ll see if I can dig out any more info...


Thanks.... Thought the color was off. That shop was indeed quite the place for a child to horse around when closed and learn what "off color" was way to early haha


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## cotedupy (Dec 13, 2022)

jjlotti said:


> Thanks.... Thought the color was off. That shop was indeed quite the place for a child to horse around when closed and learn what "off color" was way to early haha




Here's something for a laugh...

I picked up this a few months ago off ebay because it was only a tenner and I was relatively confident it was a coticule that someone had stamped honing honing instructions on. Especially as it was 6x1 which would be a very unusual size for a synthetic stone, and much more common for coticules.

If it was a Barber's Hone then the producer was certainly doing their very best to make it look like a coti:







And what was it...?

Of course, it _was _a weirdly-sized, synthetic Barber's Hone that the producer had done their very best to make look like a coti. By covering 1/3rd of it in a sheet of coticule-coloured paper:








Can't win 'em all eh! It's kinda fun though.


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## Kaisersoze (Dec 17, 2022)

Well I finally received my coticule and have been playing around with both sides. I bought a stone from 1stone.fr and it has been fun playing around with both the coticule and BBW sides. I was seduced by buying one the stones from 1stone that is purportedly from an earlier time in the mining(Burton-Rox ownership I think), and we all know old things are simply better than new ones, right?
Anyway might be a silly question but since the coticule and BBW are essentially the same abrasive just in different quantities is there a difference in using a piece of BBW vs a piece coticule as a slurry stone? other than just the density or cutting power of the slurry? I know in japanese natural stones there is quite a bit of difference in using different nagura on different types of stones etc.


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## deltaplex (Dec 18, 2022)

I believe it's been discussed in this (or another) thread, but yes, the garnet "properties" of the layers are different, so the slurries will exhibit those properties in use.


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## Rideon66 (Dec 18, 2022)

One thing about coticule slurry that differs from other stones is the garnet their shape and how hard they are. So I would think the garnet size shape and such would only truly matter on a slurry made with a slurry stone. Once you use a diamond plate to create a slurry with a coticule you break those garnets up and they are all sharp and no longer garnet shaped. It doesn't matter for knifes and can even be a plus I would think. For razors one would only want a slurry with a slurry stone though.


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## cotedupy (Dec 27, 2022)

Kaisersoze said:


> Well I finally received my coticule and have been playing around with both sides. I bought a stone from 1stone.fr and it has been fun playing around with both the coticule and BBW sides. I was seduced by buying one the stones from 1stone that is purportedly from an earlier time in the mining(Burton-Rox ownership I think), and we all know old things are simply better than new ones, right?
> Anyway might be a silly question but since the coticule and BBW are essentially the same abrasive just in different quantities is there a difference in using a piece of BBW vs a piece coticule as a slurry stone? other than just the density or cutting power of the slurry? I know in japanese natural stones there is quite a bit of difference in using different nagura on different types of stones etc.




I tend to use the same type of slurry stone, but there's no reason you shouldn't play around and see if you prefer something else. Mixing different stones with different slurries is always fun and interesting.

Though tbh in fact; for knives I usually work coticules from a light atoma slurry. This really turbo charges the speed, and is great for both knife edges and polishing. Though as T said above - slurry stones rather than an atoma slurry is the preferred option for razor honing.


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## captaincaed (Dec 27, 2022)

Kaisersoze said:


> is there a difference in using a piece of BBW vs a piece coticule as a slurry stone? other than just the density or cutting power of the slurry? I know in japanese natural stones there is quite a bit of difference in using different nagura on different types of stones etc.


One thing to consider is abrasive particle size. Mixing grit size will give different results, and may even be desirable. I don't have an answer if your stones have differing grits, you'll need to experiment, but something to ponder.


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## cotedupy (Dec 28, 2022)

Looks like I never posted this here, but a few a weeks ago I picked up a very interesting Coticule x BBW grinding / sharpening wheel thing for an absolute pittance on UK ebay (shout out to my man @Rideon66 for flagging it):












The stone itself is about 6" in diameter, and rather unusual looking once I'd flattened and cleaned up a bit:







TBH I wasn't expecting it to be all that great, like they had just used whatever bit of rock they could find that was wide enough. But actually was really rather good when I went to try it out; on the finer side of medium, but very fast indeed.

So I emailed Rob at Ardennes Coticule to see if he could shed any light, and turns out that it's likely to be from a highly regarded vein quarried historically at Regne called 'Les Petas':


_"Hello Oli,

What a very nice stone you have there!

This looks like a coticule stone mined in the "Regné" quarry.
Looks very similar to a "Le Peta" coticule vein.

I don't know which company made this stone.

Best regards
Rob Celis"_


This layer isn't currently exploited, though AC do own the quarry at Regne I believe so there is potential that it may be again in the future, and I would strongly recommend looking out for it if they do.

I've actually been using this as a bench stone so far, rather than in the intended fashion, but here she is in full swing after I got:






Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## enchappo (Jan 1, 2023)

enchappo said:


> I have nothing meaningful to say about these stones since they just got delivered today and I haven’t tried them yet (hence the slightly dodgy / immediately post unwrapping pics), but I wouldn’t be able to match @cotedupy ‘s insights anyway. So sharing just for fun. View attachment 212764
> View attachment 212765
> 
> View attachment 212766


Ok, so this is a first polishing session with the one on the left in the past above (in hand on final pic). Knife is a Tsubaya Y.Tanaka B1. 

My mediocre skills accounted for, and the fact it needs more time and/or a coarser helper first to fully override the longitudinal scratch pattern put on by the previous owner, this is pretty nice. 

Contrast between the core and cladding is great.


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## cotedupy (Jan 1, 2023)

enchappo said:


> Ok, so this is a first polishing session with the one on the left in the past above (in hand on final pic). Knife is a Tsubaya Y.Tanaka B1.
> 
> My mediocre skills accounted for, and the fact it needs more time and/or a coarser helper first to fully override the longitudinal scratch pattern put on by the previous owner, this is pretty nice.
> 
> ...




Ah very nice! Was that the coticule or BBW...?


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## enchappo (Jan 1, 2023)

cotedupy said:


> Ah very nice! Was that the coticule or BBW...?


That was the coti. Started with an atoma slurry, but found it self-slurried more than enough. Ended up burnishing / slurry minimising to finish


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## cotedupy (Jan 1, 2023)

enchappo said:


> That was the coti. Started with an atoma slurry, but found it self-slurried more than enough. Ended up burnishing / slurry minimising to finish




Ah cool, I assumed it was the coti giving that very bright hagane.

Belgian Blue does very nice things too, and probably a bit easier to use / needs a little less manipulation. Trying to combine the best of both into one polish is often my goal (with varying levels of success!)


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## enchappo (Jan 1, 2023)

cotedupy said:


> Ah cool, I assumed it was the coti giving that very bright hagane.
> 
> Belgian Blue does very nice things too, and probably a bit easier to use / needs a little less manipulation. Trying to combine the best of both into one polish is often my goal (with varying levels of success!)


I started giving the Belgian Blue a go on the other side of the knife, and I wasn’t happy with the consistency of the haze on the jigane (hence no photos of that side ). But that was just because I didn’t give it enough time I think… was in a rush and hoping I could get equivalent results in 1/8 of the time


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## enchappo (Jan 2, 2023)

Bit of a half-assed effort by me, but not bad


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## rgar4012 (Jan 2, 2023)

cotedupy said:


> A few more of mine...
> 
> View attachment 197303
> 
> ...



Cotedupy, This may be a little off topic for this thread, but can you explain what you are doing at the end of that mazaki vid with the edge of your table? Is this what people mean when they say strop on newspaper? Just seems different from the standard stropping "how-to's" I've seen. I usually don't strop but have been looking into it recently and this appears to be an interesting technique. I believe I saw a video where Kippington did something similar.


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## cotedupy (Jan 3, 2023)

rgar4012 said:


> Cotedupy, This may be a little off topic for this thread, but can you explain what you are doing at the end of that mazaki vid with the edge of your table? Is this what people mean when they say strop on newspaper? Just seems different from the standard stropping "how-to's" I've seen. I usually don't strop but have been looking into it recently and this appears to be an interesting technique. I believe I saw a video where Kippington did something similar.




Yep - that's exactly what I'm doing there. It's a bit of newspaper folded over the end of the table, relatively light pressure, and kinda just wiping the length of the edge a few times. Only one little bit of it in is contact with the newspaper at any time.

I've always liked newspaper / cardboard for stropping because I think it maintains a fidelity from the stone's finish that you don't get so much with leather. Though you do need to have deburred really well; in that video I spend more than of the time deburring, and you can see just how often I touch the edge with my fingertips to check it. That's what makes it look impressive - because I completely nailed it there (which was nice given I was trying to make a vid!). But it doesn't happen every time, completely perfect deburring isn't necessarily the easiest thing in the world.

That's just how I like to strop though, and obviously there are many ways to skin cats. I'm sure putting the newspaper flat on a table and stropping with more of the edge in contact works just as well for other people too.

Now that you mention, another good one is something I saw @Kippington do at his house one time - those hard tubes that you get bottles of whiskey &c. in, or poster tubes. In fact it's fairly similar to newspaper folded over the edge of a table, because of the curvature of the tube only one part of the edge touches it at any point. Dunno if that aspect actually makes a difference, but it seems to work for me.


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## rgar4012 (Jan 4, 2023)

cotedupy said:


> Yep - that's exactly what I'm doing there. It's a bit of newspaper folded over the end of the table, relatively light pressure, and kinda just wiping the length of the edge a few times. Only one little bit of it in is contact with the newspaper at any time.
> 
> I've always liked newspaper / cardboard for stropping because I think it maintains a fidelity from the stone's finish that you don't get so much with leather. Though you do need to have deburred really well; in that video I spend more than of the time deburring, and you can see just how often I touch the edge with my fingertips to check it. That's what makes it look impressive - because I completely nailed it there (which was nice given I was trying to make a vid!). But it doesn't happen every time, completely perfect deburring isn't necessarily the easiest thing in the world.
> 
> ...


Many thanks! Looking forward to giving it a try.


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## cotedupy (Jan 4, 2023)

enchappo said:


> I started giving the Belgian Blue a go on the other side of the knife, and I wasn’t happy with the consistency of the haze on the jigane (hence no photos of that side ). But that was just because I didn’t give it enough time I think… was in a rush and hoping I could get equivalent results in 1/8 of the time




That's interesting; normally I'd find BBW much easier to work for a very consistent, cloudy, quite dark jigane, with coticule being better for very bright hagane. But obviously different stones are different!

(I tend to use BBW with a decent amount of mud raised before.)


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## enchappo (Jan 4, 2023)

cotedupy said:


> That's interesting; normally I'd find BBW much easier to work for a very consistent, cloudy, quite dark jigane, with coticule being better for very bright hagane. But obviously different stones are different!
> 
> (I tend to use BBW with a decent amount of mud raised before.)


Ok, interesting. I think it could probably be down to my pressure management (and lack of consistency there). I will definitely be doing some more experimenting. And thanks for the tip on raising a decent amount of mud


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## deltaplex (Jan 4, 2023)

I just received a stunner!:


















176 x 41 x 20; that coti is real fast and the BBW is so good for edges.


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## deltaplex (Jan 4, 2023)

Quick 10 min polish on the bbw with a built up slurry from the knife (stainless clad):


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## enchappo (Jan 4, 2023)

deltaplex said:


> I just received a stunner!:
> 
> View attachment 217681
> View attachment 217682
> ...


A beauty


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## cotedupy (Jan 4, 2023)

deltaplex said:


> I just received a stunner!:
> 
> View attachment 217681
> View attachment 217682
> ...




Drop dead gorgeous!

The Belgian Blue reminds me a lot of one I sent @Pie a couple of months ago.


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## ethompson (Jan 4, 2023)

cotedupy said:


> Drop dead gorgeous!
> 
> The Belgian Blue reminds me a lot of one I sent @Pie a couple of months ago.


And the coti reminds me of the one you sent me!


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## cotedupy (Jan 4, 2023)

ethompson said:


> And the coti reminds me of the one you sent me!




Indeed - very similar. (I almost mentioned that too).

Two of the best stones I’ve been silly enough to sell, so I imagine yours there @deltaplex is an absolute gem!


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## deltaplex (Jan 5, 2023)

cotedupy said:


> Indeed - very similar. (I almost mentioned that too).
> 
> Two of the best stones I’ve been silly enough to sell, so I imagine yours there @deltaplex is an absolute gem!


Initial testing on it has both sides as the best version of that side I've been able to use (for kitchen knives), I've already set it up as the in the kitchen stone and I'm excited to slowly work out the dishing on the coti side touching up edges.


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## cotedupy (Jan 5, 2023)

deltaplex said:


> Initial testing on it has both sides as the best version of that side I've been able to use (for kitchen knives), I've already set it up as the in the kitchen stone and I'm excited to slowly work out the dishing on the coti side touching up edges.




Yeah, that kind of very uniform pale cream with Manganese lines is a pretty surefire sign of a top level stone. And the BBW I had which looked similar was definitely at the faster end of things too. Combining both in one stone I imagine is completely excellent. 

The very large coti I used in the sharpening video earlier in this thread was quite dished too. I flattened it a bit into a ‘V’ shape, so I could use one half at a time and hopefully get it flatter after a while without having to lap too much away initially. Might be a bit more tricky on yours as it’s a bit smaller (mine is 10 x 2.5”) but worth thinking about perhaps...


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## deltaplex (Jan 5, 2023)

cotedupy said:


> Yeah, that kind of very uniform pale cream with Manganese lines is a pretty surefire sign of a top level stone. And the BBW I had which looked similar was definitely at the faster end of things too. Combining both in one stone I imagine is completely excellent.
> 
> The very large coti I used in the sharpening video earlier in this thread was quite dished too. I flattened it a bit into a ‘V’ shape, so I could use one half at a time and hopefully get it flatter after a while without having to lap too much away initially. Might be a bit more tricky on yours as it’s a bit smaller (mine is 10 x 2.5”) but worth thinking about perhaps...


I'm stubborn and I have an aversion to waste (often to my own detriment) so I'll be honing on the little plateaus for a while before I get fed up with it. I'm in a similar boat on my monster coti as well, so we'll see how long I hold out before I'm using them as slurry stones to speed things up.


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## cotedupy (Monday at 7:11 PM)

Once upon a time I found the loveliest little Coticule in all the world; she was fast, fine, and pure as the driven snow. But ever so, ever so thin.







So she stayed in the drawer, to preserve her blemishless beauty, and eschew the evils and dangers of the outside world, waiting for her Prince Charming...

---

It's not often you find a very thin piece of novaculite because it's so bloody hard, whetstones take multiple lifetimes to wear down. A friend on B&B even asked Dan's about custom cuts of Black Arks, but they were beyond prohibitively expensive. I was beginning to lose hope that my little Coti would ever find true love.

Until just a few days ago, when I received delivery of an Idwal stone I'd picked up on ebay for a few quid, popped it out the box, and...







Perfection!

So here's my little Coticule now with her Llyn Idwal. Epoxied together for all eternity...


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## enchappo (Monday at 7:19 PM)

cotedupy said:


> Once upon a time I found the loveliest little Coticule in all the world; she was fast, fine, and pure as the driven snow. But ever so, ever so thin.
> 
> View attachment 218634
> 
> ...


This is really cool


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## stringer (Monday at 7:26 PM)

cotedupy said:


> Once upon a time I found the loveliest little Coticule in all the world; she was fast, fine, and pure as the driven snow. But ever so, ever so thin.
> 
> View attachment 218634
> 
> ...


Now that's a knife stone. You lucky bastard. Your little Llyn Idwal slip stone is still one of my all time favorite knife edge stones.


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## rgar4012 (Monday at 10:07 PM)

cotedupy said:


> Once upon a time I found the loveliest little Coticule in all the world; she was fast, fine, and pure as the driven snow. But ever so, ever so thin.
> 
> View attachment 218634
> 
> ...


Looks lovely. Whats the red stone in the background of the last picture?


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## captaincaed (Monday at 10:26 PM)

You’re going to confuse the next generation no end…
Cotedupy 2.0 is going to find this in 2079, and think “bloody hell, the 2020s were the age of information, there MUST be some documentation on these weird little combos” and spend the next 3 sleepless, coke-filled months scouring the Internet-That-Was with the Wayf*ingbackMachine for some “Treaty Stones between Wales and Belgium, the Llyn Idwalicule, the stone from which you draw pre-sharpened swords, meant for kings”

But really, congrats, that’s a neat little trick


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## cotedupy (Tuesday at 9:35 AM)

stringer said:


> Now that's a knife stone. You lucky bastard. Your little Llyn Idwal slip stone is still one of my all time favorite knife edge stones.



Thought you might like that one . The Idwal there is actually toward the faster coarser end of them, so probably would be pretty good for knives as well as razors. I just need to get somewhat better at in-hand sharpening!

Glad my old one is doing well. I've just looked back at the pictures of it and actually it's not just a normal Idwal... that's a Grecian Hone I sent you. Very cool and seriously excellent knife edges. I've now got a few of these and have researched a bit, I'll try to do a post about them later and how they differ slightly from other 'Llyn Idwals'.




rgar4012 said:


> Looks lovely. Whats the red stone in the background of the last picture?



Haha... that's just the box someone had made for the coti. The combi is too thick to fit in now though, so I might need to chisel it out a bit.




captaincaed said:


> Cotedupy 2.0 is going to find this in 2079, and think “bloody hell, the 2020s were the age of information, there MUST be some documentation on these weird little combos” and spend the next 3 sleepless, coke-filled months scouring the Internet-That-Was with the Wayf*ingbackMachine for some “Treaty Stones between Wales and Belgium, the Llyn Idwalicule, the stone from which you draw pre-sharpened swords, meant for kings”




That is at least half the fun of it, yes. Should be at least as befuddling for the future people as my Blue Tam O'Shanter x Belgian Blue Whetstone combi.


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## cotedupy (Tuesday at 9:39 AM)

captaincaed said:


> You’re going to confuse the next generation no end…
> Cotedupy 2.0 is going to find this in 2079, and think “bloody hell, the 2020s were the age of information, there MUST be some documentation on these weird little combos” and spend the next 3 sleepless, coke-filled months scouring the Internet-That-Was with the Wayf*ingbackMachine for some “Treaty Stones between Wales and Belgium, the Llyn Idwalicule, the stone from which you draw pre-sharpened swords, meant for kings”
> 
> But really, congrats, that’s a neat little trick




You also bring me neatly on to some fun facts for everybody, linking Belgium, Wales, and whetstones...

Cymru (Wales) was obviously historically a Celtic land, and Cymræg (Welsh) today has the largest number of native speakers of any Celtic language in the world.

What might be less well known though is that Belgium too was a Celtic area; named for the Belgæ tribe, and indeed the original Roman name for Coticules - _Passernices - _was also probably a Celtic word. Just like _Llyn Idwal_.

---

See...? My pair of star-cross'd lovers aren't as weird as you think!


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