# What's the deal with Takeda knives?



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Sep 21, 2020)

Scandi grind, strange shapes, heart stamp - what makes them good? I've never tried (or wanted to try) them.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Sep 21, 2020)

I’ve never tried one and I wanted to until some multiple trusted sources told me they wedge.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Sep 21, 2020)

Yeah I don't know but its the only knife thats popular i haven't tried. For some reason never appealed to me.


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## PappaG (Sep 21, 2020)

I have a short, but tall petty. I really like the knife. I find it crazy thin and crazy light. Sharpens easily and great for a home cook. Can't speak to whether a professional would like it, but for my use its a enjoyable, light thin knife to use..


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 21, 2020)

From my point of view, he was popular over a decade ago when there were fewer boutique knife makers and rustic kurouchi was considered exotic. His prices keep rising so he must still have a following, but I've never seen the appeal.


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## KO88 (Sep 21, 2020)

I ve Takeda cleaver and it s great. Very thin and light for cleaver. Sharpens easy holds edge cuts like MF. Main is with almost no belly. Very happy with the knife would buy again


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## xxxclx (Sep 21, 2020)

I have the Takeda Funayuki and I like it quite a bit, especially for quick and small kitchen tasks. Sharpens nicely and does hold the edge pretty well. I probably wouldn't buy their larger offerings though.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Sep 21, 2020)

Looks like a lefty, but the food release seems good in left hand use though.


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## btbyrd (Sep 21, 2020)

300mm gyuto. Very tall. Forged geometry. Huge belly with no flat spot. Well treated steel. Lots of personality, unlike anything else out there.


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## McMan (Sep 21, 2020)

Takedas evolved crazily... The old ones bear no resemblance to the new one, aside from the stamp. The old ones had tall bevels, were thin (but not too thin) and stiff, and were awesome. Then there was a mid-phase where the blade road was really, really low, and the sides were slabby--and the knives were really inconsistent if not flawed. Then Takeda dialed that in and added more of a forged hollow, which is where we're at now--a forged S-grind, thin with some flex. That choil shot above tells it all. Good, but not great, food release. The change in grind/manufacture was pretty profound and coincided with Takeda getting very well known. I've tried old and new--the old version in B#1 was one of the first Japanese knives I bought--and very much prefer the old ones. Still, the new ones are fun. The gyutos are crazy tall. They don't come cheap though, and I'd be hard-pressed to ever pay full retail for a new one. It's a knife I'd put in the "mandatory to try" category.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Sep 21, 2020)

Thanks for the replies. So far I've got: thin knives, S grind on the newer ones, good steel...

But still, speaking in terms of 165mm nakiri (the standard knife I compare brands with since that's usually what I'm after) the AS Classic is at $290 (CKTG, Chubo) compared to a TF Mab at $260 (direct), a Shig KU at $250 (Strata), a Mazaki Kasumi at $180, M. Hinoura at $230 (JCK), etc.

I'm still unclear what makes them worth it. Do they come with girls like these? Because if so, I'm definitely getting on the Takeda train.


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## pgugger (Sep 21, 2020)

McMan said:


> Takedas evolved crazily... The old ones bear no resemblance to the new one, aside from the stamp. The old ones had tall bevels, were thin (but not too thin) and stiff, and were awesome. Then there was a mid-phase where the blade road was really, really low, and the sides were slabby--and the knives were really inconsistent if not flawed. Then Takeda dialed that in and added more of a forged hollow, which is where we're at now--a forged S-grind, thin with some flex.



Do you recall which years were each of these phases? 

My "medium" gyuto (255 mm) is about two years old I think (stainless-clad AS), and it's great. Unparalleled food release. Really light and tall, so great for chopping and doubles as a bench scraper. Well made, easy to sharpen. It is true that it can crack carrots or wedge a little in hard food, depending, but my thought has always been that is a calculated tradeoff for food release. I think the Kippington hook grind thread goes through various related tradeoffs, and Takeda's geometry seems like one reasonable solution for the height of the bevel, thickness at the wide point and behind/above it, edge angle, etc... even if not necessarily everyone's favorite!



nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> But still, speaking in terms of 165mm nakiri (the standard knife I compare brands with since that's usually what I'm after) the AS Classic is at $290 (CKTG, Chubo) compared to a TF Mab at $260 (direct), a Shig KU at $250 (Strata), a Mazaki Kasumi at $180, M. Hinoura at $230 (JCK), etc.
> 
> I'm still unclear what makes them worth it.



Whether a Takeda is worth it depends on what you want. I like to try different styles, so for me it was totally worth it and I still have mine and use it among many other knives.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Sep 21, 2020)

@pgugger That is true. I dislike the aesthetics but do want to try one now. 

Also, given that they sometimes wedge, do people regularly thin them or turn them into quasi-wide bevels?


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## pgugger (Sep 21, 2020)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Also, given that they sometimes wedge, do people regularly thin them or turn them into quasi-wide bevels?



I have read of people thinning the widest point to help avoid wedging. But, it seems that would also have the effect of reducing food separation. Not sure what you mean about wide bevels...


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## labor of love (Sep 21, 2020)

You will recognize a “good” takeda by the shinogi Location not being next to the edge but more like 25-35mm Up the blade. They used to be something to rave about 10 years ago. Also people had much more modest tastes back then.


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## pgugger (Sep 21, 2020)

labor of love said:


> You will recognize a “good” takeda by the shinogi Location not being next to the edge but more like 25-35mm Up the blade. They used to be something to rave about 10 years ago. Also people had much more modest tastes back then.



I have never tried the old ones, but it seems to me that if the shinogi was so high then it would no longer serve to separate food on most short foods. I can understand if that's not important to some people or in many circumstances, but food separation seems like something that Takeda knives excel at.


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## labor of love (Sep 21, 2020)

I dunno. You either enjoy cutting food with an Axe grind or you don’t.


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## Chicagohawkie (Sep 21, 2020)

Is Takeda taking a break? Seems mostly out of stock at most of the usual locations.


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## McMan (Sep 21, 2020)

pgugger said:


> Do you recall which years were each of these phases?


There was this thread about when the old to mid-phase transition happened, and its from 2014.





Takeda ....What to look for (now) to keep from getting screwed


Takeda used to make really thin knives that cut great. Now they're leaving the area above the edge really extra thick making for wedgie-monsters. They need to go back to grinding them as they used to but in the meantime new buyers are coming along and getting screwed by these new bad grinds...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com




I got my first old one somewhere between 2005 and 2007, so say 2006. I got a few others from him after that, figure 2008. IIRC, the transition (from old to first version of new grind) was about ~2010. Then the latest version of the new grind kicked in about five years ago? Maybe others can chime in? My recollection of exact years is fuzzy.


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## Chicagohawkie (Sep 21, 2020)

the old wide bevel Takedas disappeared a long time ago. Thinking 12 or 13.


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## Hassanbensober (Sep 21, 2020)

Big nakiri fan here. If I could find another Takeda AS super nakiri just like the one I bought 6 years ago I would gladly pay more than retail for it. Thinnest grind I’ve ever seen I hope they still make them like that.


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## labor of love (Sep 21, 2020)

Hassanbensober said:


> Big nakiri fan here. If I could find another Takeda AS super nakiri just like the one I bought 6 years ago I would gladly pay more than retail for it. Thinnest grind I’ve ever seen I hope they still make them like that.


He will do custom knives for the same price as retail. I had takeda make me an “old school takeda” last year.


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## Geigs (Sep 21, 2020)

I have a 270 Gyuto, new grind. I really like mine- good food release, I like the height, it's really light and maneuverable for a large knife. Holds an edge really well and is not too hard to sharpen. Not the cheapest knife, but I still reach for it a lot more than some of my other knives. And for things like cabbage or melons it excels.


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## BillHanna (Sep 21, 2020)

labor of love said:


> He will do custom knives for the same price as retail. I had takeda make me an “old school takeda” last year.


Old school as in iron clad?


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## labor of love (Sep 21, 2020)

BillHanna said:


> Old school as in iron clad?


Yeah, also thin w high shinogi.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 21, 2020)

I don’t get Takeda’s appeal either, thin & light is not my thing, the tiny bevel looks weird, especially on a knife seems unreasonably tall. But the old school ones do sound like the better version.


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## labor of love (Sep 22, 2020)

Here’s the custom I requested. They hit the requested measurements perfectly.


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## Chicagohawkie (Sep 22, 2020)

How’s the rigidity of the soft iron? My AS Sash was like lead. Bent pretty easily. The NAS are 10 times stronger.


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## labor of love (Sep 22, 2020)

Chicagohawkie said:


> How’s the rigidity of the soft iron? My AS Sash was like lead. Bent pretty easily. The NAS are 10 times stronger.


Oh you could fold up the classic and put it in your back pocket if you wanted to. 
Takeda would never pass that ABS bend test lol. Not that it matters.


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## Chicagohawkie (Sep 22, 2020)

Ya, that’s probably why you don’t see many from back in the day. All folded up like a stick of chewing gum.


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## Luftmensch (Sep 22, 2020)

labor of love said:


> I had takeda make me an “old school takeda” last year.



Given the title of the thread... I am curious; what about the Takeda magic were you looking for in the custom? Compared to alternative options?

Agree with the historical trend. I might add... as I understand it, Takeda was also a pretty savvy businessman. He "reached out" to the west earlier than many other J-blacksmiths. He made it easy for people to order direct and submit custom orders. That was a relative novelty back then, popularity and reputation followed.... Could be wrong...


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## Chicagohawkie (Sep 22, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Given the title of the thread... I am curious; what about the Takeda magic were you looking for in the custom? Compared to alternative options?
> 
> Agree with the historical trend. I might add... as I understand it, Takeda was also a pretty savvy businessman. He "reached out" to the west earlier than many other J-blacksmiths. He made it easy for people to order direct and submit custom orders. That was a relative novelty back then, popularity and reputation followed.... Could be wrong...


You used to be able to order direct from just about every Japanese hamono 10 years ago. In regards to Takeda, you sent an email stating what you wanted and you sent an international money order for 125 bucks and then you got a knife a month or two later. Now it’s all channel level BS with markups 5 times along the way.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Sep 22, 2020)

Chicagohawkie said:


> You used to be able to order direct from just about every Japanese hamono 10 years ago. In regards to Takeda, you sent an email stating what you wanted and you sent an international money order for 125 bucks and then you got a knife a month or two later. Now it’s all channel level BS with markups 5 times along the way.



Whenever I hear people discussing the good old days (and the good old prices), I realize I really missed the boat on that stuff. I'd be sitting pretty with my Wat nakiri and not have a giant hole in my pocket. TF nashiji, too.


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## labor of love (Sep 22, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Given the title of the thread... I am curious; what about the Takeda magic were you looking for in the custom? Compared to alternative options?
> 
> Agree with the historical trend. I might add... as I understand it, Takeda was also a pretty savvy businessman. He "reached out" to the west earlier than many other J-blacksmiths. He made it easy for people to order direct and submit custom orders. That was a relative novelty back then, popularity and reputation followed.... Could be wrong...


Well that custom actually has a decent profile for starters 
250mm x 54mm instead of the classic mini cleaver w mezzaluna profile or sasa which at the time I thought was too narrow. Also taller bevel.
I think I just requested extra tall sasa profile w soft iron.


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## Marek07 (Sep 22, 2020)

Hassanbensober said:


> Big nakiri fan here. If I could find another Takeda AS super nakiri just like the one I bought 6 years ago I would gladly pay more than retail for it. Thinnest grind I’ve ever seen I hope they still make them like that.


Strong words of support.


labor of love said:


> He will do custom knives for the same price as retail. I had takeda make me an “old school takeda” last year.


Even better!


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## milas555 (Sep 22, 2020)

You have to get used to the geometry and you may like it or not, but this buttery AS, easy and undemanding to sharpen (you can sharpen Takada well even on a brick) always makes you smile. As it was said - you must try it !!! (AS - soft iron)


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## milas555 (Sep 22, 2020)

(AS - soft iron)


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## ian (Sep 22, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Well that custom actually has a decent profile for starters
> 250mm x 54mm instead of the classic mini cleaver w mezzaluna profile or sasa which at the time I thought was too narrow. Also taller bevel.
> I think I just requested extra tall sasa profile w soft iron.



That’s a crazy flat profile at the tip. How’d it feel to you? I’m assuming the knife has since moved on.


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## Runner_up (Sep 22, 2020)

I only have one, an iron clad 240mm Kiritsuke gyuto. I love it. Used frequently in a pro environment. @pgugger is spot on - unparalleled food release out of all my Jknives. I don't think I need to have anymore - but I think if you have a collection of knives from various J-makers then Takeda is definitely worth trying. I certainly won't be selling mine.


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## Ruso (Sep 22, 2020)

I kinda dig the new arrowhead profile. Not because its the best, but because its different. It’s nice to pull this knife for tall hard vegetables or onions. It has its appeal to me. Also the steel is well treated; AS Love!


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## BillHanna (Sep 22, 2020)

@nakiriknaifuwaifu When are we ordering our iron clad 180mm nakiri? Get through the holidays first, and they can make both at once.


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## RockyBasel (Sep 22, 2020)

I have the Takeda 180 mm Nakiri and ordered direct. I like it, but quality is a bit not where I would like it. Light, fun to use, but I don’t end up reaching for it much - will try it tomorrow night - as a refresh


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 22, 2020)

Check this thread out ...






Like a naughty schoolboy


This is going to be a recommend me a knife thread like you've never seen. I'm not filling out the questionnaire because I only care about one thing. Will it sit quietly in the corner? When I cut that food, I want it to sit there quietly. Every time. No drama, no fuss, no onion tears, just well...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





I think I have pretty much all of the AS series knives in my collection ... here’s a pic ...







I actually picked up Takeda’s tall nakiri but it’s not in the pic. I don’t know of another line of knives forged the same as Takeda’s. On that basis alone they are worth trying In my opinion. Two of his knives are in my permanent block. These are the knives from my collection that don’t rotate. The knives I reach for when I’m in a hurry or want to get things done. I like them ... you may or may not.


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## milas555 (Sep 22, 2020)

By the way, please give me a short opinion from suji / yanagiba ...


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## esoo (Sep 22, 2020)

Brian Weekley said:


> Check this thread out ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How flat is that bunka? I had a NAS nakiri and sold it as it had too much curve in the profile.


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 22, 2020)

milas555 said:


> By the way, please give me a short opinion from suji / yanagiba ...



The sujihiki/Yanigaba is probably my least favourite of all his knives that I own. VERY flexible. Mine came with a slight twist in the blade. Nice to have to complete my collection but I wouldn’t recommend it as a daily user.


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## RockyBasel (Sep 22, 2020)

esoo said:


> How flat is that bunka? I had a NAS nakiri and sold it as it had too much curve in the profile.





Brian Weekley said:


> The sujihiki/Yanigaba is probably my least favourite of all his knives that I own. VERY flexible. Mine came with a slight twist in the blade. Nice to have to complete my collection but I wouldn’t recommend it as a daily user.


My Nakiri came a bit warped - so when you put it flat in the table, it wobbles like a dining table in a restaurant


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 22, 2020)

I can see your point with the bunka. I prefer less curve myself but my bunka is ok as far as curve is concerned. I wouldn't want any more. I enjoy using it but have a Kurosaki bunka in my permanent block That I use when time or convenience is of the essence.


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## milas555 (Sep 22, 2020)

Brian Weekley said:


> The sujihiki/Yanigaba is probably my least favourite of all his knives that I own. VERY flexible. Mine came with a slight twist in the blade. Nice to have to complete my collection but I wouldn’t recommend it as a daily user.


Thanks - I had doubts ... although I like petty, gyuto and nakiri a lot


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 22, 2020)

I agree with your list ... especially the petty. It’s in my permanent block and I use it every day. Big enough to be a mini Gyuto and holds an incredibly sharp edge for a very long time. Like all Takeda’s Very easy to touch up or sharpen when the time comes. But knives are a very personal thing and I can see how others may see it differently.


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## RockyBasel (Sep 22, 2020)

milas555 said:


> Thanks - I had doubts ... although I like petty, gyuto and nakiri a lot


I liked the Nakiri a lot as well, but then I got a Watanabe Pro Nakiri


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## Alder26 (Sep 22, 2020)

milas555 said:


> You have to get used to the geometry and you may like it or not, but this buttery AS, easy and undemanding to sharpen (you can sharpen Takada well even on a brick) always makes you smile. As it was said - you must try it !!! (AS - soft iron)


I totally agree with his steel probably my favorite AS steel. Takedas are without a doubt one of the most unique cutting experiences, as such they are polarizing. If you get a good one though they can blow you away.


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## wilburh (Sep 22, 2020)

I'll parrot the previous posters somewhat. If you find an OLD Takeda pay whatever you have to and get it. I don't recommend the newer version...either cladding. Yes, I have both and there's absolutely no comparison.

I assume the reason you seldom find an older Takeda for sale is that folks that have them would never sell them. That thought might be pure justification but I don't think so....


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## Ruso (Sep 22, 2020)

I decided to take my Takeda for a spin to make a salad. It performed great on almost everything*, I enjoyed the experience.

*horizontal onion cuts were not that great.


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## Viggetorr (Sep 23, 2020)

I love my bunka. Generous height, great stell, very precise due to low weight. I also find mine performs great for denser vegetables like carrots and potatoes, where the food separation is a big advantage. My only grievance is it has a bit mor (continous) belly than I'd like.


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## lemeneid (Sep 24, 2020)

Too much flex in the ones I tried. Felt like I could snap them off easily. Otherwise nice knives.


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## Chicagohawkie (Sep 24, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Too much flex in the ones I tried. Felt like I could snap them off easily. Otherwise nice knives.


The classic soft iron cladded varients were easily bent, the NAS varients were much stronger.


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## adam92 (Mar 3, 2021)

Brian Weekley said:


> Check this thread out ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you have the mioroshi deba? Do you like it?


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## Bill13 (Mar 3, 2021)

Here is mine that I bought of BST 8 years ago. Great knife, super thin and fun to use.


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## Brian Weekley (Mar 3, 2021)

I do have the mioroshi deba and for as much as I’ve used it I like it a lot. It’s a much thicker and more substantial blade. I don’t know whether it will suit me as a daily user and it hasn’t had a turn in my rotating block where I’ll give it at least two weeks of regular use. I seem to accumulate too many knives that push it out of the way. I picked it up mostly because the AS series Takeda’s are getting so rare and hard to find and I was working to complete my collection of AS Takeda’s. I have nothing against the NAS series Takeda’s but find that they are thicker blades without the character of the AS series blades. Takeda’s knives are truly different than many of the knives produced today. I have three favourites ... the petty, the sasanoha and the kogatana. When I seek to impress and threaten bystanders I drag out my 300 Gyuto or my xxl chinese cleaver. I call the last two my “cabbage killers”. They are the only knives I own that will cause a big head of cabbage to fall to pieces just by taking them out of my knife drawer. The petit is one of the most used knives in my kitchen. It’s light and small and maintains a ridiculously sharp edge. To me, perfect for vege prep. I’m sure the NAS version is equally delightful. The kogatana is also preferred in my kitchen For all those “non food tasks”. From opening vacuum sealed packages to light cardboard it’s perfect. The heat treatment and ability to hold an edge is tops as far as I’m concerned. The Sasanoha is closest to the traditional Gyuto profile while maintaining Takeda’s grind. It may be more attractive to most users who find the depth of Takeda’s gyutos a bit much. Again the NAS series would be perfectly usable for most people. While many might not agree with me I think one of Takeda’s knives deserves a place in most people’s kitchen. They’re different ... and they’re not too expensive. I’ve read that “nothing cuts like a Takeda”. I agree with that ... they’re not necessarily preferred to your normal Japanese fare, but by being different they are worth a try. Who knows ... you might get bit by the Takeda bug like I did.


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## WiriWiri (Mar 4, 2021)

I’ve owned a Takeda AS Gyuto since 2011, when the tsunami of bullhype around these blades blew so hard that a few even belatedly reached one of the two retailers on this backward isle. As someone suggested earlier, these were quieter times in the J Knife world— hell even Glestains seemed vaguely still interesting back then- and the chance to pick up a named smith’s work in a larger size seemed far too good to pass up

I’ll admit to being a little discomforted when my Takeda arrived. It was a whopping outsized 240 (250+), with a heel taller than my nakiri at 65+. And whilst it looked appropriately mean and rustic, if felt strangely 2D and light when i pulled it out of its packaging, as if a passing steam roller had just flattened a smaller and more purposeful knife. I expected a butch, rustic blade that would plough though produce, but this thing felt together altogether much more frail, lacking the heft to do the work expected.

I thought the profile sucked on first use, and I’m still much of the same opinion. The weird surface area/low weight ratio and thinness of the blade implies laser, but this big flat ugly porpoise of a blade felt nothing like as nimble as that. You’ve basically got the big flat spot at the heel, which only gently curves until it reaches a bulbous snout - even a few cm away from the tip this thing was still higher than many of the tallest point of many of the Sakai knives I was accustomed to. All that metal just felt unbalanced and awkward in my hands - using it on my undersized, overcrowded kitchen counters seemed unnecessarily challenging, like an anorexic ballerina choosing to flap around Oxford St whilst wearing a sandwich board in a mild gale. 10 years later and it probably remains my least used gyuto as a result.

Yet despite all that I don’t dislike the Takeda, and I can totally understand why good people rave about its cutting qualities. It does sharpen easily to a ridiculously keen edge, perennially achieving that pointlessly satisfying stick in board thinness. And given the right produce and mission it provides an unparalleled experience - aim it as some greens and some field mushrooms (for example) and there’s a weird, detached weightlessness to the way that giant flat heel silently scalpels down on produce. Get it right and a pile of perfectly sliced veg silently and magically seems to appear in front of you, with none of that sticking and rolling around the board nonsense. 

I‘m happy enough for it to keep a place in my collection for that feeling alone


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## btbyrd (Mar 4, 2021)

Either the profiles have changed or I have two outliers, but neither my 210 nor my 300 gyuto has any flat spot to speak of. When I first got them, I wasn't used to this kind of profile and it was accordion city whenever I cut things. But I quickly adapted to it, adding a subtle rock to my chopping motion, and that took care of my issues. This also got rid of any similar problems I had with other blades which was an unexpected side benefit.

I'll also throw out that I really didn't care for the kogatana -- at least as a kitchen knife. It's just way too thick behind the edge to do any sort of paring knife work, and was a total wedge-monster when I used it on the board.


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## Brian Weekley (Mar 4, 2021)

+1 on the kogatana comment. I think it would suck for use as a paring knife. For many non-food prep jobs in the kitchen like opening vacuum sealed packages I find it very useful. Others may differ and have a different approach which is great too.


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## mushy_pork (Mar 4, 2021)

I have a 210 NAS Sasanoha. It is such an odd knife. Thin, almost flexy, with an axe like grind.

It's the king of food release when you're cutting soft foods like mushrooms. It definitely feels wedge-y on denser items like carrots, where you really need to be actively slicing on your cuts.

The steel and heat treat are great... it's just the grind that's weird. 

Currently it's not taking up a spot on my knife strip, and it's back in the box. 

I'm at the crossroads of "just sell it" or "send it to Jon at JKI and have him knock off those shoulders"


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## Bear (Mar 4, 2021)

labor of love said:


> I dunno. You either enjoy cutting food with an Axe grind or you don’t.



I tried one, they are not for me


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## WiriWiri (Mar 4, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> Either the profiles have changed or I have two outliers, but neither my 210 nor my 300 gyuto has any flat spot to speak of. When I first got them, I wasn't used to this kind of profile and it was accordion city whenever I cut things. But I quickly adapted to it, adding a subtle rock to my chopping motion, and that took care of my issues.



You made me doubt myself for a bit, but I dragged the old beast out tonight and there’s definitely about 10cm of flat at the heel, followed by a very gradual rise. I wouldn’t have expected Takeda’s profiles to be consistent to be fair. Hurriedly taken, not so helpful, pic below.

For the sake of accuracy, my memory seems to have exaggerated the heel height a bit. It’s actually ‘only‘ about 63mm high


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## Jason183 (Mar 4, 2021)

I was going to try one because it looks super thin and tall, it would be good for vegetables, but some also said it wedges badly, especially I cut carrots often so gave up hope for it.


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## WiriWiri (Mar 4, 2021)

I think the thing about Takeda blades being massive wedgemeisters is a bit overblown imo, or at the least mine doesn’t tend to provide the resounding cracks when cutting through oversized carrots you’d expect from such a reputation. But there’s definitely a marked change when moving from soft to harder produce as mushy_pork suggests, One second you‘re gliding weightlessly through veg (with a slightly goofy smile on your face), but then something marginally harder seems to provide sudden friction and resistance to a surprising degree (illusion blown, smile gone).

To a certain degree the profile, balance and lack of heft aggravate that feeling. I find myself babying it to an extent and holding it differently than any other gyuto, so the transition to ‘actively slicing’ seems really marked and a little forced given its ease in cutting other things. I suspect more confident users with more precise knife skills may have a better experience than me.


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## Brian Weekley (Mar 4, 2021)

Best use for the Kogatana IMO.




‘











I guess I could pull out a Shig or Kato or Maumasi to do the same job but the little Kogatana is handy, always sharp and a LOT cheaper. Now ... let’s have a look at the TF that just arrived!


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## WiriWiri (Mar 4, 2021)

Man, you had a Kogatana out near _that _box and your hand didn‘t accidently slip towards that smug face? You disappoint me

Look at his eyes taunting you, me, you, us. 

TFTFTFTFTFT


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## adam92 (Mar 4, 2021)

Jason183 said:


> I was going to try one because it looks super thin and tall, it would be good for vegetables, but some also said it wedges badly, especially I cut carrots often so gave up hope for it.


Me too, I hate wedges when cutting carrot.


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## Brian Weekley (Mar 4, 2021)

I must admit that I have a lot of knives. Gyutos especially! With all the fuss over TF’s work I figured I had to step up to the plate and try one or two for myself so that I had my own experience to judge them by. In my view knives are so personal that I really can’t completely go by others comments. I like to have my own experience to draw upon. I guess the thing is that the makers, TF and Takeda included, have their own vision when they forge a blade. I like to try to get in touch with their vision. I’m not a pro or work in a commercial kitchen so I have the time and inclination to try to understand what and why the makers make what they do. Otherwise I would just stick to a Myabi Black Gyuto and save a lot of money.


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## WiriWiri (Mar 7, 2021)

Brian Weekley said:


> I must admit that I have a lot of knives. Gyutos especially! With all the fuss over TF’s work I figured I had to step up to the plate and try one or two for myself so that I had my own experience to judge them by.





Let us know how you get on. For all the hyperbole and daft banter, I’ve owned a couple of TF Mabs and thoroughly enjoyed both of them - grinds seemed good in my case and I didn’t expect perfection with F&F (which is fortunate as both handles are a bit shoddy).

FWIW I find TF’s less unique than Takedas, which is less of a backhanded compliment than it first appears. I love cutting certain things with the Takeda, but it’s pretty darn poor at others comparatively, to the extent that I rarely get through a board of prep without reaching for another knife. The same‘s not true of the TF I still own, which is a great all rounder, certainly comparing well with many of my faves in pretty much every category. I’m generally a wa handles kind of guy, but the balance and that finger notch on TF definitely works, and the steel/HT is definitely damn good.

So yep, I can see the appeal of a denka and I’m almost certain it’d be a great blade to have. But I’ve also dithered for so long (a mere decade or so) that the eternal debate over the same inconsistency Issues slightly grates. It just seems a bit of a predictable gamble, plus I can’t help feeling that I’d rather push my money towards a more deserving maker who doesn’t turn what should be a premium experience into so much of a lottery to begin with.


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## chuggamug (Sep 25, 2022)

Brian Weekley said:


> Check this thread out ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which are in your permanent collection? Trying to decide on which profile I want, and leaning towards the kiritsuke.


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## Jeff (Sep 27, 2022)

I have 4 TAKEDA knives. IMHO, using them is definitely an acquired skill. Cutting with them is different. There seems to be a different attack angle when using those knives. It is different than most other knives.

** exception: Ko- Bunka and Ko-Bocho, each @ 110 mm. They slay shallots, garlic, and all herbs.


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## btbyrd (Sep 27, 2022)

One thing that they are somewhat known for is wedging. My 300 was okay in that regard (at least at some points along the blade) but my 210 was borderline unsafe doing horizontal cuts on onions. Happily, I can recommend District Cutlery's thinning service. I had it done on both my knives and the cutting performance was *vastly* improved. I asked them to preserve the scandi grind and they did all the work on stones by hand. I still owe Ryan a beer for that the next time I'm in DC. It must have taken forever.


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## Jeff (Sep 27, 2022)

btbyrd said:


> One thing that they are somewhat known for is wedging. My 300 was okay in that regard (at least at some points along the blade) but my 210 was borderline unsafe doing horizontal cuts on onions. Happily, I can recommend District Cutlery's thinning service. I had it done on both my knives and the cutting performance was *vastly* improved. I asked them to preserve the scandi grind and they did all the work on stones by hand. I still owe Ryan a beer for that the next time I'm in DC. It must have taken forever.




WOW! never heard of thinning a TAKEDA! They are already sooooooo thin!


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## btbyrd (Sep 28, 2022)

They're thin knives overall, but the thickest part of the blade except for the spine is about 1cm behind the edge where the grind starts. These are the "shoulders" on Takedas that can give them wedging problems. Just because they're thin doesn't mean they're thin behind the edge. The shoulders are also what give them good food release, so I'm not a fan of the "grind them all the way off on a bench grinder" approach to dealing with problematic Takeda shoulders. But sometimes the factory shoulders leave the knife too chunky behind the edge to cut some items well.


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## Pie (Sep 28, 2022)

btbyrd said:


> One thing that they are somewhat known for is wedging. My 300 was okay in that regard (at least at some points along the blade) but my 210 was borderline unsafe doing horizontal cuts on onions. Happily, I can recommend District Cutlery's thinning service. I had it done on both my knives and the cutting performance was *vastly* improved. I asked them to preserve the scandi grind and they did all the work on stones by hand. I still owe Ryan a beer for that the next time I'm in DC. It must have taken forever.


It does take forever . On the plus side I can feel the difference that I can’t really see, aside from some scarred KU. 

They seem to be popular again, knifewear’s last restock lasted a solid 12 hours. I do wonder how many people come into it cold, take it to a squash and balk when it gets stuck right away.

I’ve heard he’s slowing down as well in production.. might be driving some of the hype we’re not seeing here.


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## Jeff (Sep 28, 2022)

btbyrd said:


> They're thin knives overall, but the thickest part of the blade except for the spine is about 1cm behind the edge where the grind starts. These are the "shoulders" on Takedas that can give them wedging problems. Just because they're thin doesn't mean they're thin behind the edge. The shoulders are also what give them good food release, so I'm not a fan of the "grind them all the way off on a bench grinder" approach to dealing with problematic Takeda shoulders. But sometimes the factory shoulders leave the knife too chunky behind the edge to cut some items well.





Is that issue common to all “s grind” blades?


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## btbyrd (Sep 28, 2022)

No because most knives with s grinds have the "S" ground into them. On Takedas, the S is created via forging with the power hammer. They literally beat the knife thinner in the center of the knife as opposed to just removing blade stock with a sander or whatever. When you grind in an S it's easier to create shoulders that are thinner or higher or otherwise aren't as prone to wedging.


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## simona (Sep 29, 2022)

I got my first one in the post just last week. Shockingly light and bendy compared to my other nakiris / santukos (I am a total nakiri / santuko nerd). Shockingly sharp as well. The curve was unexpected, but as many have written, a small adjustment in technique and it stops being an issue.
17,5 cm give or take a few mills. That's about the average size of my, still growing, collection. I have to say, that for home use that is the size which works best for me, given the workspace and chopping board size combined with the volume of produce which needs to be cut into different shapes. 
It has a nice natural feel to it, slips into the hand easily, and the size is not a factor to consider. I certainly enjoy it and expect to come to enjoy it even more with each slice and dice.


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## simona (Sep 30, 2022)

There was another thing about my bunka - I am sure it is cannot be so for _*only*_ my Takeda - it has a clear beautiful chime-tone when I tap the blade or the handle, clear and in-tune like a crystal wine glass; just moving it in my hand makes it ping, sing and resonate, quite unique of all my knives.


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