# Watanabe AI synthetic stones



## bennyprofane (Sep 21, 2016)

Has anyone tried the Watanabe AI synthetic stones, especially the AI #220 and the AI #1000 and how they compare to other good synths like Chosera, JNS and Gesshin?

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/syntheticstone.htm


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## Matus (Sep 21, 2016)

Hmm, hard to say as he has a very different white balance on every of his photos. The 220 really looks like the Bester, but the rest I have no idea.


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## bennyprofane (Sep 21, 2016)

If you mouse over "Shin's comment" you get a description (you've probably seen it). They do sound quite impressive.


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## aboynamedsuita (Sep 21, 2016)

Matus said:


> Hmm, hard to say as he has a very different white balance on every of his photos. The 220 really looks like the Bester, but the rest I have no idea.



Agree, it does look a lot like the pink brick


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## Badgertooth (Sep 22, 2016)

It's the AI 2000 that piqued my interest


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## nutmeg (Sep 27, 2016)

The AI 1000 is a beast. Extremely quick and agressive but clean. 

The Kitayama 8000 is also very fast, much more than on Naniwa Superstones for exemple. good feeling and makes a mice mirror blade. 

To be honest, I love Natural stone, own more than 20 of them and use the most of the time at home of for some special knives but at work I don't have much time to sharpen.
That's why I only use these 2 Stones at work. The 8000, 30 seconds every 3 days on my workhorses and it is clean enough to do all the kind of prep I would need in a 2 Michelin stars restaurant.
I use the AI 1000 when it's needed like to remove microchips or to give a healthy basis before the 8000.

I see these stones as good friends for professionnals. 
(The AI Diamond being the best friend and the most faithful one. A bit costly but an absolute must-have. I 'll make videos of this one soon)


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## bennyprofane (Sep 27, 2016)

Matus said:


> Hmm, hard to say as he has a very different white balance on every of his photos. The 220 really looks like the Bester, but the rest I have no idea.



He wrote me that its harder than the Bester.


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## nutmeg (Sep 27, 2016)

I would even think the AI1000 could be my favourite stone. 
Ok a $1200 shiro suita or a good uchigumori do miracles on steel...but can they do a sharp edge in say.. 25 seconds?


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## bennyprofane (Sep 27, 2016)

It does sound great!

Have you also tried the AI2000?


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## nutmeg (Sep 27, 2016)

no unfortunately not. But I 'm not sure I would "need" it in this configuration, the 1000 being so clean..
If you are looking for a stone in the 2000 grit, it could worth a try.


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## panda (Sep 28, 2016)

anyone else try the 1k? curious about the feedback and cutting speed.


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## Krassi (Sep 30, 2016)

allright!

@nutmeg
okk now you have done it! i have to get the ai1000... i am swarming around this stone for more than half a year since watanabe has them in his shop and was always curious how good it is.. if watanabe says "this stone is super awesome" than i can thrust him. ok ill order it soon


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## nutmeg (Sep 30, 2016)

Krassi said:


> allright!
> 
> @nutmeg
> okk now you have done it! i have to get the ai1000... i am swarming around this stone for more than half a year since watanabe has them in his shop and was always curious how good it is.. if watanabe says "this stone is super awesome" than i can thrust him. ok ill order it soon




Yes, definitely.
Shinichi Watanabe is one of the best knife designer. He knows how to give great material a comfortable shape and the best sharpness.
I have now many types of kitchen knives and stones from him and every time I feel the same as the comments he writes.
His knowledge about stones is incredible.


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## nutmeg (Oct 1, 2016)

I remeber him writing about the AI#1000:

"ai#1000 and Chosera 1000 are similar making process. But ai#1000 is stronger shaping power, keep flat surface more and sharpened surface is finer.
JNS 1000 is same power as Chosera or weaker shaping power than Chosera 1000.
JNS say it doesn't need soak, but I think the stone needs 5 min in water. You can think AI #1000 has Chosera #400 of shaping power. But the sharpened surface is #1000."


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## Matus (Oct 1, 2016)

nutmeg, was that information you have just shared been posted online, or in private communication between you and Schinichi. I am asking as it makes difference in how it sounds and what people may think about him. Please clarify if possible.


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## nutmeg (Oct 1, 2016)

Yes this was a private conversation with Shinichi. 
I hope this can help to compare.


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## bennyprofane (Oct 3, 2016)

panda said:


> anyone else try the 1k? curious about the feedback and cutting speed.



I have the AI 220 and 1000 on order and will share my impressions once I have them.


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## Matus (Oct 3, 2016)

bennyprofane said:


> I have the AI 220 and 1000 on order and will share my impressions once I have them.



Excellent!


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## bennyprofane (Oct 19, 2016)

I have done some playing around with the AI 1000 and its really nice and really fast. Its fully splash & go and not thirsty at all. Sharpening feeling and feedback is nice. It seems that the stone is very hard and that it wont dish much.

Here is a little video:

[video]https://vid.me/WAJL[/video]


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## bennyprofane (Oct 20, 2016)

Btw, sorry if my sharpening looks a little weird (position wise), another person (with no time to reshoot it) was holding the camera and was a little in the way which made it a little awkward for me. That and the Vorführeffekt (demonstration effect)... :whistling:


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## Matus (Oct 20, 2016)

Thank you benny


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## panda (Oct 20, 2016)

what about the 220?


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## bennyprofane (Oct 20, 2016)

I dont have the bester to compare it but it feels much coarser / scratchier than the JNS 300.
I can also make a video if you like. Its very fast and hard it seemed to me.


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## panda (Oct 20, 2016)

yes please, i'd like to see how it does at thinning.


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## Matus (Oct 20, 2016)

panda said:


> what about the 220?



I would be curios too. It probably is not the same as Bester 220 (which is a good stone IMO) as it has different dimensions.

I would not be surprised that it would feel coarser than JNS300 - that stone feels surprisingly smooth for its grit.


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## DanHumphrey (Oct 21, 2016)

nutmeg said:


> JNS say it doesn't need soak, but I think the stone needs 5 min in water. You can think AI #1000 has Chosera #400 of shaping power. But the sharpened surface is #1000."



That's disappointing - I had hoped it could be the start for 1000 -> finisher progression of purely S&G. Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and get Jon's diamond stones...


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## panda (Oct 21, 2016)

benny, watching the 1k video, it sounds really scratchy (much rougher than a 1k normally is) is that the case in person or is that just the capturing process adding digital artifacts? could you describe the feedback as well in comparison to other 1k stones? as crappy stone king 1k is, i still think it is a reference for feedback during use.


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## panda (Dec 4, 2016)

the ai#1000 is currently on sale and i couldn't pass it up, with the current exchange rate it was $72 shipped to the US (shipping was more than half what the stone cost ). this will be going into a new setup for work (chosera 400, ai1000, aizu) to replace current setup of just cho600+3k

judging from the posted impressions my expectations for this stone is rather high (feels like chosera 1k, but cuts much faster?), hope i'm not disappointed!


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## Badgertooth (Dec 4, 2016)

panda said:


> a new setup for work (chosera 400, ai1000, aizu)


 

My man! 

That would be a killer edge.


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## leansmancave (Dec 5, 2016)

Folks, the kanji means "love", so it should be Love #1000 stone. AI #1000 kinda sounds robotic and makes me feel "terminated". :laugh:

Anyway, I am also very interested in this new line of stones.


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## bennyprofane (Dec 5, 2016)

It might be coarser than a Chosera 1000 (I've heard the Choseras are finer than labeled). Looking forward to read what you think, Panda.


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## panda (Dec 5, 2016)

choseras definitely are finer than the rating.


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## bennyprofane (Dec 5, 2016)

How fine would you say the 1000 is?


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## Matus (Dec 5, 2016)

I have recently used the AI #1000 for the first time and man, is that stone fast. Not quite as pleasant as JNS1000, but with even scratch pattern as I would expect from a 1000 stone. No loading, hard, does not really create much mud when used on wide bevels. Just a lot of black swarf.


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## SatoShin (Dec 5, 2016)

I think they look very similar to shapton 1000


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## Iggy (Dec 5, 2016)

Matus said:


> I have recently used the AI #1000 for the first time and man, is that stone fast. Not quite as pleasant as JNS1000, but with even scratch pattern as I would expect from a 1000 stone. No loading, hard, does not really create much mud when used on wide bevels. Just a lot of black swarf.



Just used it to sharpen two knives (Misono molybdenum steel cleaver and one carbon steel paring knife), so can't 100% compare yet but I would agree with matus.... really fast... not as nice feeling as my JNS 1200 f.e. Would say a little fast feeling than chosera 1k... but chosera has a little nicer feedback. Just from first impressions..


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## Krassi (Dec 5, 2016)

Hiho.. i got the ai1000 and ai2000 from zetieum at home.. well didnt test them but will 
As mentioned is the ai1000 much faster but feels scratchier..
..like matus says "man, is that stone fast. Not quite as pleasant as JNS1000"

Oh but interesting to hear matus that they behave finer and leave a nice scratch pattern that you expect.

best regards, daniel


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## Matus (Dec 5, 2016)

I do plan direct comparison to Gesshin 2000 at some point as that is my reference stone when it comes to speen in medium grit stones. I just need to find the time. The poor Munetoshi 160 petty is taking the beating during these tests (I actually really like the knife, a little brother to the 240).


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## Krassi (Dec 5, 2016)

Hahah! yeah poor testknifes..
I am also curious how the Ai2000 will do against my Ikarashi and Aizu.


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## K813zra (Dec 5, 2016)

SatoShin said:


> I think they look very similar to shapton 1000



I was thinking the same thing.


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## Krassi (Dec 5, 2016)

hmmmmm well as you mention it ( i got 5 of those glassy thingys).. but the main feature is the temperglass base that keeps it flat and the normal glasstones are half height.
Well there is also a 500 grit glasstone with double height.

Since it behaves low but gives a higher grit scratch pattern its still unclear for me if its a mixture of different grain sizes.
Dang ill try em when iam home! .. after trying my new litle custom knife )


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## K813zra (Dec 5, 2016)

Krassi said:


> hmmmmm well as you mention it ( i got 5 of those glassy thingys).. but the main feature is the temperglass base that keeps it flat and the normal glasstones are half height.
> Well there is also a 500 grit glasstone with double height.
> 
> Since it behaves low but gives a higher grit scratch pattern its still unclear for me if its a mixture of different grain sizes.
> Dang ill try em when iam home! .. after trying my new litle custom knife )



I was thinking they seem similar to the SP 1000 and 2000 in color and thickness. I guess I would have to use them to tell, though. No, I must resist. No more synthetic stones.


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## Krassi (Dec 5, 2016)

i got a 220,500,2000, 8000 and 16000 (well i would love to sell the 8k and 16k) and the 500 is very aggressive and hyperfast and the 2k still has good feedback.. to bad i cant say how the 1k is.. but well there are not unlimited numbers of Sharpeningstone manufacturers in Japan and since the Ai1000 is a real super hightech stone in my opinion its gotta be from one of the best.

Ehh well color not.. the glassis are grey (not only the different hard or soft bond versions but the lower grit ones tend to be less homogen in color) or pure white and the ai2000 for example has a duo cyan-miami vice green pattern. 
For me the ai2000 is interesting compared to my naturals.


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## bennyprofane (Dec 5, 2016)

I had initially flattened my Watanabe 1000 with my Atoma 140 and a few days ago flattened it with my Atoma 1200 and I think it feels less coarse and scratchy now but is still a very fast stone.


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## panda (Dec 17, 2016)

got my 1k today, will report once i've used it.






i like that it comes with wooden base and rubber feet!


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## panda (Dec 17, 2016)

Not the best feedback, feels like an 800, seems a little muted but man is it fast! Yet the edge is not aggressive. It's the best 1k edge I've been able to achieve on first run, it's very crisp. Finish is more like 1500.

It loads up quick but settles as soon as you drop more water on it and smooths out once surface is completely saturated.


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## labor of love (Jan 31, 2017)

I just acquired a wat 1k from panda, is everybody certain this stone is splash and go? I soaked it for 5 min, then flattened it and tried to use it but it seemed very thirsty. Fastest mid grit stone I've ever used I must say.


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## Krassi (Feb 1, 2017)

Hiho!

Well its splash and go.. drinks a bit at the start but can go instant.
I would also advice to smooth it with a diamondplate.. feels much finer then.. the "it feels like a 800 Stone" is the first thing everybody thinks with it )
once its running it just is so fast and most other stuff feels slow when directly compared.

i also got mine but havent used it before.. Watanabe has a new "finish" for this.. black wood and its laquered black on the sides of the stone too.. looks good! like "bumble bee 1000 of doom!"


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## labor of love (Feb 1, 2017)

Well, I'm permasoaking mine, wish me luck.


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## bennyprofane (Feb 1, 2017)

Weird, I don't even find mine that thirsty and I just S&G.



labor of love said:


> Well, I'm permasoaking mine, wish me luck.



"Never keep in the water." is what Watanabe writes on his website. Perhaps reconsider that approach.


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## labor of love (Feb 1, 2017)

Dammit.


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## bennyprofane (Feb 1, 2017)

Maybe no harm done


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## Matus (Feb 1, 2017)

Just let the stone dry somewhere in cool and not too dry place (i.e. slowly).


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## zetieum (Feb 1, 2017)

Krassi said:


> i got a 220,500,2000, 8000 and 16000 (well i would love to sell the 8k and 16k) and the 500 is very aggressive and hyperfast and the 2k still has good feedback.. to bad i cant say how the 1k is.. but well there are not unlimited numbers of Sharpeningstone manufacturers in Japan and since the Ai1000 is a real super hightech stone in my opinion its gotta be from one of the best.



I may be interested in your 8k for my brother. Let's talk about it soon.


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## Krassi (Feb 1, 2017)

Nice!


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## labor of love (Feb 1, 2017)

Matus said:


> Just let the stone dry somewhere in cool and not too dry place (i.e. slowly).



Like a fridgerator/walk in cooler?


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## Matus (Feb 1, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Like a fridgerator/walk in cooler?



Rather like vine cellar. The air should be able to move around the stone so that some stuff does not start to grow on it.


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## panda (Feb 1, 2017)

I've soaked jnats before. You'll be fine just leave it by the sink.


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## labor of love (Feb 1, 2017)

It's fine. The feedback is actually a lot better after a 24 soak. What a shame. Just sharpened a co workers shun in record time, raised a MASSIVE burr.


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## nutmeg (Feb 2, 2017)

I just received an Ai#2000.It makes a very dark Ji. Quite clean too. pictures are coming.


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## Jovidah (Feb 3, 2017)

labor of love said:


> It's fine. The feedback is actually a lot better after a 24 soak. What a shame. Just sharpened a co workers shun in record time, raised a MASSIVE burr.



As mentioned on the site at least the 1000 grit stone is a magnesium-based stone (vs vitrified, or resinoid). This puts it in the same category as the Naniwa pro / Chosera stones. The 2000 grit is likely to be in the same category.
The magnesium will leach out when soaking them for long times, causing the stone to crack or dissolve. So soaking long-time (or overnight) is definitly a no-go, even if you got away with it this time.

However, as you already noticed, it likely will benefit from a short soak. I soak my Naniwa pro for a few minutes before use as well, just like most people with Chosera stones, and it seems to be no problem. It certainly makes them cut better and keeps them from drying out all the time.


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## nutmeg (Feb 3, 2017)

View attachment 34457

Ai#1000. Ai#2000 for the dark part


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## mcritchlow (Feb 3, 2017)

nutmeg said:


> View attachment 34457
> 
> Ai#1000. Ai#2000 for the dark part



attachment isn't working (for me). curious to see this


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## nutmeg (Feb 3, 2017)

bild upload


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## panda (Feb 3, 2017)

That looks gangsta!!


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## nutmeg (Feb 5, 2017)

you mean camouflage style &#128523;
Quite fast and very clean I find this is a top last step before naturals. 
I can't say if the dark colour stays after a finer polishing. 

Like the ai#1000 it gives slurry incredibly fast. I don't see any need of soaking in water for these ones.


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## Krassi (Feb 7, 2017)

I was forced to use my new Ai1000 on the weekend a lot on the crappy Solingen mono crapknifes from my mum.. i can only say.. WOW!! those things were "round irons" but had nothing in comon with a knife anymore.. i first thought "oh crap i dondt have my JNS400".. but actually the AI1000 was like a chainsaw an made everything sharp in no time! .. faster than my JNS400.. also a VG10 ugly knife of a friend went also sharp (well vg10 suxx really) .

Awesome Stone! for me now the only one i want for the sharpening. Other stones are smoother.. but i loose patience with them because they are slow like grandma compared to the ai1000


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## cyberbaton (Feb 18, 2017)

Wondering, Is the Ai #220 suitable for heavy thinnig? How it behaves? Is it closer to Atoma 140 or JNS 300 ?


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## Matus (Feb 18, 2017)

I would say tgat the #220 (I have the bester, but the AI will be very similar) sits speed wise right between Atoma 140 and JNS300. In other words it is considerably faster than JNS300, but Atoma is one full step faster.


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