# Konosuke Kaiju



## wombat

https://www.**************.com/konosukekaiju.html
On sale October 3, according to Konosuke's instagram. Looks interesting, wonder if there will be a 210mm version.

Edit - URL appears to have been blocked, it's CKTG.


----------



## naitcire

Kaiju – Konosuke


Here's the correct link. God look that profile, so sexy!


----------



## wombat

naitcire said:


> Kaiju – Konosuke
> 
> 
> Here's the correct link. God look that profile, so sexy!


Thank you, that link didn't come up in my Google results for some reason


----------



## Tien

Workhorse Fujiyama? take my wallet.


----------



## Corradobrit1

B#1 specs look interesting. I find the 175g weight a little unbelievable given the specs. The shorter, thinner W#1 FM w/ebony handle weighed 175g. These must be over 200g.


----------



## ModRQC

Miaw! Could be heavier though for it's intended purpose, but I guess it's hard to push Kono away from old habits - that target weight is typical. I'd like a full frontal choil shot but it looks the part. It does look like still a very conservative try at a workhorse.


----------



## Omega

The weights on the website are taken without any handle I think


----------



## Corradobrit1

Omega said:


> The weights on the website are taken without any handle I think


Makes sense


----------



## ModRQC

I always thought they based the prototype drawing weight with the khii laurel handle... I don't think I ever compared with vendors specs to verify tough.


----------



## ModRQC

Corradobrit1 said:


> Makes sense



I'm not sure it does. The drawing includes a handle. 175g. I seem to remember looking at the FM drawing and the weight was ballpark with units I could verify through vendors, depending on handle.


----------



## Malcolm Johnson

I am definitely interested in this line. The one thing I wish I could get on my Y Tanaka is a thicker spine near the handle. I am curious about that weight though. If that’s without a handle then I’m pretty well sold on this line


----------



## DitmasPork

Looks like a knife in my wheelhouse! Although, I've already blown my 2020 knife budget. Nice height.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Malcolm Johnson said:


> I am definitely interested in this line. The one thing I wish I could get on my Y Tanaka is a thicker spine near the handle. I am curious about that weight though. If that’s without a handle then I’m pretty well sold on this line


With handle no way that knife weighs 175g


----------



## ModRQC

Why?

4mm is nothing so thicker than FMs... rated what, 3.3 or something? Also the grind seems more of the same, granted probably less needle and more convexed but still the taper on the half choil shot is very steep, so quite thin behind, just lower so.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Don't forget these are 4mm taller than the FM too and touted as a WH grind vs the laserish FM. But I predict a weight ~220g with Ebony handle. Guess we'll know soon enough.


----------



## ModRQC

Guess I don't care... Look at the price @Kippington sold his last one. I wouldn't be first in line for any Konosuke. In the ways that make sense, Kipp's work is much more dedicated.


----------



## Omega

My 240 B2 FM with standard Konosuke handle is 184grams. The 'drawings' have to represent weights without handles. If they're doing the Kaiju with ebony? We could see weights around 240 grams easy.


----------



## ModRQC

130g!! Sorry. Then I agree this is blade only.


----------



## zizirex

I'm Guessing Ivan is the one who does the finishing of these knives. really tempted, but that Price tag...


----------



## Byphy

It's called KAIJU. I already know its dope


----------



## Corradobrit1

zizirex said:


> Price tag...


Is price announced?


----------



## zizirex

Corradobrit1 said:


> Is price announced?


well, CKTG already put it at $600. don't know if it will change or no. I have no idea how much Tosho will charge for it though, maybe similiar.


----------



## friz

ModRQC said:


> Guess I don't care... Look at the price @Kippington sold his last one. I wouldn't be first in line for any Konosuke. In the ways that make sense, Kipp's work is much more dedicated.


You just can't compare the 2.


----------



## sododgy

zizirex said:


> well, CKTG already put it at $600. don't know if it will change or no. I have no idea how much Tosho will charge for it though, maybe similiar.



Based on the repeated mention of polishing from Kono's site/IG, I'm assuming that the finger stones CKTG mentions being included are probably coming from Kono.

Maybe not and it would affect the price some?


----------



## esoo

zizirex said:


> well, CKTG already put it at $600. don't know if it will change or no. I have no idea how much Tosho will charge for it though, maybe similiar.



It'll be more at Tosho as it always is, and they'll justify it as they'll get the Blue #1, while CKtG has the Blue #2


----------



## DitmasPork

zizirex said:


> well, CKTG already put it at $600. don't know if it will change or no. I have no idea how much Tosho will charge for it though, maybe similiar.


Cheers! I’d wondered the price. $600-ish is what I expected, fair price. Really tempted, checks many of my boxes.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

ModRQC said:


> Why?
> 
> 4mm is nothing so thicker than FMs... rated what, 3.3 or something? Also the grind seems more of the same, granted probably less needle and more convexed but still the taper on the half choil shot is very steep, so quite thin behind, just lower so.


My FM spine is 2.7mm and the weight is 170 gram. 175 with handle is unlikely the case IMO.


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> Cheers! I’d wondered the price. $600-ish is what I expected, fair price. Really tempted, checks many of my boxes.


Definitely. The W#1 FM is about $450 but I think this new line brings more to the table. Moving away from that unpleasant bead blasted faux-kasumi finishing is to be applauded. Hoping there's a good distal taper and a thin tip region. From what I can see it looks promising.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I'm really tempted, too. Hopefully CKTG gets a good amount in stock so that it won't sell out in a second.


----------



## DitmasPork

Corradobrit1 said:


> Definitely. The W#1 FM is about $450 but I think this new line brings more to the table. Moving away from that unpleasant bead blasted faux-kasumi finishing is to be applauded. Hoping there's a good distal taper and a thin tip region. From what I can see it looks promising.


Good point. Hope there’s a decent distal. I had a Fujiyama, circa 2013, sold it, too light and delicate for my tastes—quite excited for a beefier knife with Kono f&f. Wife will kill me if she’d know I’m considering another knife.


----------



## DitmasPork

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I'm really tempted, too. Hopefully CKTG gets a good amount in stock so that it won't sell out in a second.


I’m waiting for the Tosho stock, like dealing with them.


----------



## Corradobrit1

It looks good enough, esp B#1, that I will look again at Konosuke. The Machi gap will have to go though


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

DitmasPork said:


> I’m waiting for the Tosho stock, like dealing with them.


I'll watch both. Wherever I can get one. Haha. If it turns out to be a knife with Sanjo style grind, taller FM style profile and even better-than-FM all natural finish, it would be my perfect knife for a while.


----------



## Corradobrit1

I'm in for the passaround


----------



## simar

Just in time for my birthday


----------



## DitmasPork

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I'll watch both. Wherever I can get one. Haha. If it turns out to be a knife with Sanjo style grind, taller FM style profile and even better-than-FM all natural finish, it would be my perfect knife for a while.


Way I figure, won't be heartbroken if I miss out— if it's a success, they'll likely be more in production. Maybe future iterations will come out, like without the kurouchi; different sizes, etc.


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> Way I figure, won't be heartbroken if I miss out— if it's a success, they'll likely be more in production. Maybe future iterations will come out, like without the kurouchi; different sizes, etc.


I don't see any kurouchi on the polished blade.


----------



## DitmasPork

Corradobrit1 said:


> I don't see any kurouchi on the polished blade.


Just viewing on my crappy phone—looks like a black finish. Apologies of mistaken.


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> Just viewing on my crappy phone—looks like a black finish. Apologies of mistaken.


Its the arty farty photography that is accentuating the darker stone polish. A lot of work went into creating the final finish and that in itself is worth the price premium vs the FM. I'm predicting ~$800 for the B#1 steel from Tosho (assuming they get the special version)


----------



## Inosuke Hashibira

DitmasPork said:


> Way I figure, won't be heartbroken if I miss out— if it's a success, they'll likely be more in production. Maybe future iterations will come out, like without the kurouchi; different sizes, etc.


Well on IG, Kosuke did mention they might be producing one in 270mm.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Aren't there other knives that are finished on stones like Manaka Hamono?


----------



## IsoJ

Jose you should try Jiro


----------



## jacko9

I know I love my Konosuke Fujiyama's I have a 210 Fuji Petty, a 210 Fuji Gyuto and a 240 Fuji Gyuto but at the current price of this new offering @ $600 I wondering about what it has that my Toyama 240 B#2 Stainless clad Gyuto doesn't have?


----------



## JDC

jacko9 said:


> I know I love my Konosuke Fujiyama's I have a 210 Fuji Petty, a 210 Fuji Gyuto and a 240 Fuji Gyuto but at the current price of this new offering @ $600 I wondering about what it has that my Toyama 240 B#2 Stainless clad Gyuto doesn't have?


You can polish it on a JNat without going through low grit stones painfully.


----------



## labor of love

Still think I’ll just hold out for Takada no Hamano Suiboku Reiki for workhorsey.


----------



## nwshull

How noticeable will Blue 2 vs Blue 1 be? Has anyone used both of his? This is the first one I've been tempted in a while because I feel like it will feel 'different'. I have 2 Y Tanaka's both in Blue 1, the Tsubaya and a Fujiyama mukimono. Very happy with both, will it seem like a noticeable downgrade to go with the Blue 2 at home? 

I also love the aesthetic of the buffalo horn, but that can always be changed.


----------



## M1k3

nwshull said:


> How noticeable will Blue 2 vs Blue 1 be? Has anyone used both of his? This is the first one I've been tempted in a while because I feel like it will feel 'different'. I have 2 Y Tanaka's both in Blue 1, the Tsubaya and a Fujiyama mukimono. Very happy with both, will it seem like a noticeable downgrade to go with the Blue 2 at home?
> 
> I also love the aesthetic of the buffalo horn, but that can always be changed.


Not much of difference that you could really tell. Maybe some if there's an HRC difference between them, maybe.


----------



## Corradobrit1

M1k3 said:


> Not much of difference that you could really tell. Maybe some if there's an HRC difference between them, maybe.


Per the specs there's a significant difference in the hardness.


----------



## lemeneid

So a fatty with a laser profile huh?


----------



## Corradobrit1

lemeneid said:


> View attachment 96087
> 
> 
> So a fatty with a laser profile huh?


Love the blue patina


----------



## chiffonodd

lemeneid said:


> So a fatty with a laser profile huh?



Best choil shot ever.


----------



## esoo

lemeneid said:


> View attachment 96087
> 
> 
> So a fatty with a laser profile huh?



hate to try thinning that...


----------



## zizirex

Apparently, I heard Tosho and Ai & Om will get the Blue 1 version, comes with Uchigumori finger stones to maintain the Kasumi finish. So, Myojin did the rough grinding and Ivan finishes the knife in-house for the low spot-free grind. it will be around CAD 1000 what I'm guessing.


----------



## JDC

zizirex said:


> Apparently, I heard Tosho and Ai & Om will get the Blue 1 version, comes with Uchigumori finger stones to maintain the Kasumi finish. So, Myojin did the rough grinding and Ivan finishes the knife in-house for the low spot-free grind. it will be around CAD 1000 what I'm guessing.


The Ivan with tosho?


----------



## lemeneid

esoo said:


> hate to try thinning that...


Send it to @ma_sha1 he’ll thin it and make you baby Godzilla


----------



## ma_sha1

lemeneid said:


> Send it to @ma_sha1 he’ll thin it and make you baby Godzilla



Wow, Kaiju looks exciting, I’ve never temped by Kono hype but this one is getting to me.

I wonder if it can kick Toyama iron clad out of my knife block?


----------



## nwshull

Corradobrit1 said:


> Per the specs there's a significant difference in the hardness.


1 point is that significant? I think I read it goes up per point the higher, but didn't realize 1 is a huge variation.


----------



## ma_sha1

nwshull said:


> 1 point is that significant? I think I read it goes up per point the higher, but didn't realize 1 is a huge variation.



I think that 1 point is not significant. Food in general is just too soft for any steel. The main advantage of hardness gives you is edge retention, but it sacrifices toughness, so it’s a trade-off. 

I actually prefer low 60s in hardness, as a home cook, I don’t care about further edge retention as much as toughness. I need at least some of gyutos to cut semi frozen meat, the higher hardness ones tend to chip more.


----------



## Corradobrit1

nwshull said:


> 1 point is that significant? I think I read it goes up per point the higher, but didn't realize 1 is a huge variation.


For some reason, probably the font, I read 66 for the B#1. Yes, you're correct 1 unit hrc difference isn't all that significant.


----------



## esoo

For HRC, 2 points starts to become noticeable. For example, my Fuji FM in W#2 (63-64) feels harder than my HD2 (61-62). So depending on the Blue 1 (64-65) vs Blue 2 (63-64) you get, you could get knives that have a 2 point difference


----------



## DitmasPork

esoo said:


> For HRC, 2 points starts to become noticeable. For example, my Fuji FM in W#2 (63-64) feels harder than my HD2 (61-62). So depending on the Blue 1 (64-65) vs Blue 2 (63-64) you get, you could get knives that have a 2 point difference


Personally, with B1 vs B2 Kaiju, not enough of a difference for it not to come down to price, it's already at a price point where I'm beginning to cringe.


----------



## ModRQC

According to interesting old litterature here, HRC is exponential, but we wouldn't notice much of the exponent increase in the range of kitchen knives. Supposing equal geometry I wouldn't be able to differentiate hardness of a knife much without addressing edge retention - or sharpening. And both the latter are so dependent on other things I wouldn't rely much on my feelings. Paderno crap SS seemed rather hard to me, say VG-10 / FC-61 ballpark - and had probably to do with carbides.

Undeniably, as long as I won't have a Blue #1 I will seek one out - but I also read around here that a reason for Blue #1 rarity could be that it's pretty similar to AS - logical indeed. I have nothing against AS per see, just not enthralled by it. I think CKTG has the better option for steels here.

Good hunting!


----------



## Corradobrit1

ModRQC said:


> Undeniably, as long as I won't have a Blue #1 I will seek one out - but I also read around here that a reason for Blue #1 rarity could be that it's pretty similar to AS - logical indeed. I have nothing against AS per see, just not enthralled by it. I think CKTG has the better option for steels here.
> 
> Good hunting!


Have you tried TF AS. If I could only keep one steel this would be it with the TF HT. I can't compare it with the more exotic German 'blue' steels but this is as good as it gets for me. Superb sharpness and long-lasting edge retention. Its a dream to sharpen so altogether achieves that trifector of attributes that make or break a knife steel.


----------



## M1k3

Blue 1, 2 and Super are pretty similar yet not. AS has a small vanadium addition a long with more carbon and tungsten. You could say Blue 1 is a middle ground between 2 and AS. With heavy use you could tell a little difference. But at the end of the day, the differences aren't that big to make a night and day difference.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I have JNS Tanaka B1 and I had another Tanaka B1 in the past. They don't feel that dense/hard on the stone. I've never used a B2 from Tanaka before so I'd like to try it and see if the difference is noticeable. I think it won't be that noticeable but it's good to try something "different".


----------



## DitmasPork

ModRQC said:


> According to interesting old litterature here, HRC is exponential, but we wouldn't notice much of the exponent increase in the range of kitchen knives. Supposing equal geometry I wouldn't be able to differentiate hardness of a knife much without addressing edge retention - or sharpening. And both the latter are so dependent on other things I wouldn't rely much on my feelings. Paderno crap SS seemed rather hard to me, say VG-10 / FC-61 ballpark - and had probably to do with carbides.
> 
> Undeniably, as long as I won't have a Blue #1 I will seek one out - but I also read around here that a reason for Blue #1 rarity could be that it's pretty similar to AS - logical indeed. I have nothing against AS per see, just not enthralled by it. I think CKTG has the better option for steels here.
> 
> Good hunting!


For me, I never get too hung up on steel type. TBH, steel is prob further down the list of priorities, below maker/sharpener, profile, weight/height/length, performance attributes, aesthetics, rarity, etc. For Kaiju, It wouldn’t matter tremendously to me if it’s w1, b1 or b2—but that’s just me.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

DitmasPork said:


> For me, I never get too hung up on steel type. TBH, steel is prob further down the list of priorities, below maker/sharpener, profile, weight/height/length, performance attributes, aesthetics, rarity, etc. For Kaiju, It wouldn’t matter tremendously to me if it’s w1, b1 or b2—but that’s just me.


It seems like you excluded white 2. I might be overly sensitive but dare I say that I hate white 2? haha


----------



## copacetic

What a sweet looking knife, looks right up my street. I'd be very tempted with the B1 if I wasn't still recovering from the cripplingly expensive import of my B1 Hitohira Tanaka Yohei (it's quoted as "62+" HRC). I'd love to have a shoot-out between the Kaiju and the Hitohira. In my limited experience, the B1 Tanaka feels akin to my B2 (Anryu) on the stones, whereas my AS Hinoura feels significantly different, it has that "tingy" feeling to the edge, if you know what I mean.. no evidence of chipping yet despite the high HRC.


----------



## nwshull

esoo said:


> For HRC, 2 points starts to become noticeable. For example, my Fuji FM in W#2 (63-64) feels harder than my HD2 (61-62). So depending on the Blue 1 (64-65) vs Blue 2 (63-64) you get, you could get knives that have a 2 point difference





esoo said:


> For HRC, 2 points starts to become noticeable. For example, my Fuji FM in W#2 (63-64) feels harder than my HD2 (61-62). So depending on the Blue 1 (64-65) vs Blue 2 (63-64) you get, you could get knives that have a 2 point difference



True, but assuming a normal distribution between the hardness of all knives in both, there is an equal luck of the draw you get two knives with the exact same hardness, no?

200 bucks seems steep, though I do prefer the buffalo handles. On the other hand could probably just buy one separately from KnS and come out ahead.


----------



## spaceconvoy

I agree generally that getting hung up on steel type is a distraction. When the same maker offers the same knife in two slightly different steels, it's usually to signal that the more expensive one will be better finished with more attention to detail.


----------



## Corradobrit1

spaceconvoy said:


> I agree generally that getting hung up on steel type is a distraction. When the same maker offers the same knife in two slightly different steels, it's usually to signal that the more expensive one will be better finished with more attention to detail.


No difference in F&F for TF Mab or the considerably more expensive Denka, both equally poor. The difference is the core steel and Denka Ku. For me its worth the extra cost (unless buying 240+) to go Denka. The performance between W#1 and AS is noticeable even in home kitchen. YMMV


----------



## nwshull

spaceconvoy said:


> I agree generally that getting hung up on steel type is a distraction. When the same maker offers the same knife in two slightly different steels, it's usually to signal that the more expensive one will be better finished with more attention to detail.


Isn't the whole point of this knife costing 600+ dollars is all of them have that attention to detail with polishing and no flat spots? I personally would feel pretty ripped off if I bought one regardless of steel and it did. If its minor minor aesthetics that would vanish after a few uses, I think I wouldn't care, I like to buy knives to get used.


----------



## ma_sha1

Corradobrit1 said:


> No difference in F&F for TF Mab or the considerably more expensive Denka, both equally poor. The difference is the core steel and Denka Ku. For me its worth the extra cost (unless buying 240+) to go Denka. The performance between W#1 and AS is noticeable even in home kitchen. YMMV



If I may add my 2 cents, assuming performance means cutting ability.

I remember a statement years ago by Delbert Ealy that made the most sense to me. A knife’s cutting ability is entirely due to grind, not the steel.

The Cutting of vegetables & meat can not tell differences between steel, they are far too soft. When I compared my Denka to my Triple thinned mab, it made no difference in cutting.

I don’t deny that the factory TF Denka cuts better than factory Mab, but the differences are due to grind, not steel. From marketing perspective, it also akes sense for TF to maintain an advantage on the Denka with thinner grind for differentiation to justify pricing.

IMHO, instead of paying 2x the price of Denka. one can thin the maboroshi to make it cut just like Denka. If anything, white 1 can be sharpened to a finer edge than AS, thus, under identical grind & profile, a Maborochi may actually outperform Denka in cutting.


----------



## Eloh

@ma_sha1 
i'm pretty sure he means steel performance in terms of edge retention (etc) in this context



ModRQC said:


> Guess I don't care... Look at the price @Kippington sold his last one. I wouldn't be first in line for any Konosuke. In the ways that make sense, Kipp's work is much more dedicated.


agreed, another plus (to me) is that it's mono steel instead of san mai


----------



## ma_sha1

Eloh said:


> @ma_sha1
> i'm pretty sure he means steel performance in terms of edge retention (etc) in this context




In terms of edge retention performance, yes, AS will be better. But as a home cook, I cant really tell them apart due to low usage. All my knives regardless of steel, have too long of edge retention, I sometimes sharpen them for no reason, not because they are dull.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Yes, edge retention and the ability to achieve acute grind angles without compromising edge stability (microchipping) or longevity. Even though the HRC is high the TF AS steel is not brittle or delicate


----------



## DitmasPork

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> It seems like you excluded white 2. I might be overly sensitive but dare I say that I hate white 2? haha


Not an intentional omission. I don't hate white 2, got a few knives in that steel, easy to sharpen. I've obviously not used all of carbons, but have knives in b1, b2, w1, w2, v2, 52100, 135Cr3, 145sc. No problematic issues with either, pros/cons with all of them.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

ma_sha1 said:


> In terms of edge retention performance, yes, AS will be better. But as a home cook, I cant really tell them apart due to liw usage. All my knives regardless of steel, have too long of edge retention, I sometimes sharpen them for no reason, not because they are dull.


Same situation here. All of my knives get sharpened before they get dull, with exception to maybe knives in white 2 steel.



DitmasPork said:


> Not an intentional omission. I don't hate white 2, got a few knives in that steel, easy to sharpen. I've obviously not used all of carbons, but have knives in b1, b2, w1, w2, v2, 52100, 135Cr3, 145sc. No problematic issues with either, pros/cons with all of them.



No matter it's Mazaki, Munetoshi, Tadatsuna, or Wakui, I can't get enough edge retention from white 2 especially when I cut things like tomatos. I eat tomatoes almost everyday and I frequently dice them. Sometimes they can't chop tomato skin after just a few tomatoes. If they just slice meats the edge retention is ok. I haven't tried enough of my white 2/3 honyakis and hopefully they are better.


----------



## DitmasPork

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Same situation here. All of my knives get sharpened before they get dull, with exception to maybe knives in white 2 steel.
> 
> 
> 
> No matter it's Mazaki, Munetoshi, Tadatsuna, or Wakui, I can't get enough edge retention from white 2 especially when I cut things like tomatos. I eat tomatoes almost everyday and I frequently dice them. Sometimes they can't chop tomato skin after just a few tomatoes. If they just slice meats the edge retention is ok. I haven't tried enough of my white 2/3 honyakis and hopefully they are better.


Agree. Of the steels I'd mentioned, white 2 typically lacks with edge retention, though not a huge, deal breaking issue for me, since I'm a home cook.


----------



## spaceconvoy

nwshull said:


> Isn't the whole point of this knife costing 600+ dollars is all of them have that attention to detail with polishing and no flat spots? I personally would feel pretty ripped off if I bought one regardless of steel and it did. If its minor minor aesthetics that would vanish after a few uses, I think I wouldn't care, I like to buy knives to get used.


You're probably right, but I still think it's more of a marketing device than a real practical difference. CrapKnivesToGo and TKA are at opposite ends of the spectrum in the relatively small world of North American kitchen knife retailers, but Konosuke has to keep them both happy. I seriously doubt any of us would be able to tell the difference in practical use between the TKA blue 1 and CKTG blue 2 versions.

But something has to justify their price difference, and the slightly different steel is enough for TKA customers to imagine their version is somehow ineffably superior. Meanwhile CKTG customers get to feel like they're getting a bargain and can justify still paying a ridiculous amount of money for a knife. It's like the function of generic and name brands of the same product. It's a win-win for both retailers for their specific customer base.


----------



## DitmasPork

spaceconvoy said:


> You're probably right, but I still think it's more of a marketing device than a real practical difference. CrapKnivesToGo and TKA are at opposite ends of the spectrum in the relatively small world of North American kitchen knife retailers, but Konosuke has to keep them both happy. I seriously doubt any of us would be able to tell the difference in practical use between the TKA blue 1 and CKTG blue 2 versions.
> 
> But something has to justify their price difference, and the slightly different steel is enough for TKA customers to imagine their version is somehow ineffably superior. Meanwhile CKTG customers get to feel like they're getting a bargain and can justify still paying a ridiculous amount of money for a knife. It's like the function of generic and name brands of the same product. It's a win-win for both retailers for their specific customer base.



Nicely written.

IMO, when one starts looking at gyutos in the $400+ range, the laws of diminishing returns often comes into the equation.

Lots of variables—all valid—comes into pricing, like materials, labor, rarity/uniqueness, authorship. Target audience, price point the maker positions the knife has a big roll in establishing the price.

For example, probably 98.9% of KKF members scoff at the $800 price tag and 1 year delivery time of a Chelsea Miller chef's knife—but to many of her collectors, her knives are worth every penny, with a formidable queue patiently waiting for a knife. Demand and authorship justifies her pricing—the fact that they sell is proof that they are appropriately priced.

Performance is one of the things I value most in a gyuto. Regarding performance/price, my Takada (b1) out performs my Kato workhorse which is valued at twice the value—authorship ups the price of Kato.

Some have mentioned that the 240 TF Denka is overpriced. For me, the 240 TF Denka is very fairly priced, despite its rough finish—authorship, performance, great steel, mystique, justifying price.

True when you say difference between "TKA blue 1 and CKTG blue 2 versions" might be imperceptible, but even if TKA version is a bit higher in price, I'd prob go with TKA, if only because I like dealing with them.


----------



## ModRQC

DitmasPork said:


> For me, I never get too hung up on steel type. TBH, steel is prob further down the list of priorities, below maker/sharpener, profile, weight/height/length, performance attributes, aesthetics, rarity, etc. For Kaiju, It wouldn’t matter tremendously to me if it’s w1, b1 or b2—but that’s just me.



I would generally agree, but most Blue #1 have a steep price, IF steel is of no matter.

But I just stumbled on something that almost make me want to buy a Konosuke just per principle.

In May I bought a Kurosaki Fujin AS 210mm Wa for 315$ CAD. Right now, I see a Fujin AS 180mm Yo for 733$ CAD.

I mean, he does nice blades, but... yeah...

Edit: vendor has no picture but I see that it is the turquoise handle edition... what a joke though.


----------



## DitmasPork

ModRQC said:


> I would generally agree, but most Blue #1 have a steep price, IF steel is of no matter.
> 
> But I just stumbled on something that almost make me want to buy a Konosuke just per principle.
> 
> In May I bought a Kurosaki Fujin AS 210mm Wa for 315$ CAD. Right now, I see a Fujin AS 180mm Yo for 733$ CAD.
> 
> I mean, he does nice blades, but... yeah...
> 
> Edit: vendor has no picture but I see that it is the turquoise handle edition... what a joke though.



Prob the cheapest Blue 1 is the Kajiwara Blue #1 Kurouchi Gyuto 210mm for the rock bottom price of $135. I've no idea about quality of other elements like HT, etc.


----------



## ModRQC

DitmasPork said:


> Prob the cheapest Blue 1 is the Kajiwara Blue #1 Kurouchi Gyuto 210mm for the rock bottom price of $135. I've no idea about quality of other elements like HT, etc.



No steel for steel sake’s. Masashi would be my hunt would I want one, and it’s not like they’re hard to get. But I was under (perhaps delusive) impression that those Kono/Hito/Kiku Tanaka B#1 were rather expensive compared to the rest. Then again don’t think I ever laid eyes on an AS offer for those. Perhaps it just follows suit.


----------



## DitmasPork

ModRQC said:


> No steel for steel sake’s. Masashi would be my hunt would I want one, and it’s not like they’re hard to get. But I was under (perhaps delusive) impression that those Kono/Hito/Kiku Tanaka B#1 were rather expensive compared to the rest. Then again don’t think I ever laid eyes on an AS offer for those. Perhaps it just follows suit.


See what you mean, I.e. there’s a $120 diff between the Takada b1 and w2.


----------



## ModRQC

That would about be expected between B#1 and W2, I guess, though. But yeah in the general sense I was under that impression for similar price comps as you just made.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Just saying..Tanaka b1 is cheaper than Mazaki’s.


----------



## DitmasPork

ModRQC said:


> That would about be expected between B#1 and W2, I guess, though. But yeah in the general sense I was under that impression for similar price comps as you just made.



Do you think it's material costs or difficulty in working with b1?


----------



## ModRQC

There was an interesting thread that derailed over this matter recently, don't remember where. I think difficulty of forging was among foremost reasons, that and the rise of very similar somewhat dubbed better AS offers. I would guess AS would be as difficult to forge, but the thread left me under the impression that B#1 was particularly so. Don't quote me... I just find these discussions interesting.


----------



## ModRQC

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Just saying..Tanaka b1 is cheaper than Mazaki’s.



Lol yes I think I saw one of these go by at a ridiculous amount well over 1K CAD.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Harder to forge and more failures I'm guessing accounts for the higher price. TF works with B#1 just not for double bevels.


----------



## nwshull

Corradobrit1 said:


> Harder to forge and more failures I'm guessing accounts for the higher price. TF works with B#1 just not for double bevels.



I feel like it depends on the smith. Yoshikazu Tanaka can forge a **** ton of it, considering the output and he's making other stuff, I am not sure that many failures. He's got the Fujis, the Kagekiyos, the Hitohiras, the Tsubayas, the JNS line, and I know I'm missing a few. I do guess for the sharpeners, its probably very wear resistant and then more effort to polish. I've heard B#1 is hard to forge for some, but I get the impression the man's just a master of it, the same way TF is on AS and W#1.


----------



## naitcire

nwshull said:


> I feel like it depends on the smith. Yoshikazu Tanaka can forge a **** ton of it, considering the output and he's making other stuff, I am not sure that many failures. He's got the Fujis, the Kagekiyos, the Hitohiras, the Tsubayas, the JNS line, and I know I'm missing a few. I do guess for the sharpeners, its probably very wear resistant and then more effort to polish. I've heard B#1 is hard to forge for some, but I get the impression the man's just a master of it, the same way TF is on AS and W#1.


Exactly what I was thinking. I mean Y. Tanaka san makes ****tons of Aogami steel knives each month compare to other masters, and the fact that he can still keeps his work in perfect condition always amazed me. I guess practice do makes perfection.


----------



## zizirex

Seems like Sakai Blacksmith likes to works with Blue 1 for their High end instead of AS, different region have a different style. Sanjo is more into Semi Stainless and White steel (Blue steel not that common, just Hinoura and Mazaki). I understand why blue 1 since I don't think anyone would like to sharpen AS single/wide bevel. Konosuke made a special AS series and it's not popular.

Also, the amount of knife that Tanaka produce is much more than what sharpener can handle, since I heard the sharpener industry is way less than the Blacksmith in Sakai. Tanaka also one of the blacksmiths could forge Togo Reigo, I don't know how good or overrated about the steel is, but surely he knows what he's doing.


----------



## Garm

IIRC in the "Konosuke Fujiyama: A History" thread on this forum it said that Tanaka had transitioned from forge welding the material for double bevel knives himself to using pre-laminated steel in recent times(for Fujiyama knives at least). Could explain his seemingly increased output.
If Mazaki does his own san-mai for his blue #1 knives I would expect this to be quite a bit more labour intensive.
Not opining or commenting here in any way about the quality of the end product or perceived or real value.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Yea in that legendary thread it also says “ Nowadays, he only hand laminates single bevel, Damascus, and the Vintage Carbon / Togo Reigo blades.”

Given how wild the laminaton line of my JNS Tanaka damascus blue 1 is, I think it is indeed hand laminated. 

It’s less than 1/3 of Mazaki’s blue 1 damascus price nonetheless. Actually it’s even cheaper than Mazaki’s blue 1 kasumi.

Edit: the Mazakis are beautiful knives. The fact that they sell out fast means they were priced properly. It just makes me feel after all Tanakas including the kaiju are not that expensive. LoL.


----------



## lemeneid

I wonder if they will chisel Godzilla on one side and Ultraman on the other


----------



## damiano

Saw this on their insta just now. Any chance it will be available in the EU? I know cuttingedgeknives sells Konosuke but haven’t seen anything yet on their page.


----------



## Inosuke Hashibira

Wahnamhong said:


> Saw this on their insta just now. Any chance it will be available in the EU? I know cuttingedgeknives sells Konosuke but haven’t seen anything yet on their page. View attachment 96222


  , the kaiju will only be available at cktg and tosho. Happy hunting.


----------



## zizirex

Inosuke Hashibira said:


> , the kaiju will only be available at cktg and tosho. Happy hunting.


Ai & Om will get it as well..


----------



## ModRQC

I’ll stalk Tosho with my Canadian citizenship priority... 

No chance! All yours guys. Choil is beautiful.


----------



## Matus

That grind does not look much like a workhorse to me (it looks good though)


----------



## ModRQC

It's a very similar choil to my Takada Reika (Tanaka also). This one with more beef at the spine and much more height, allowing tremendous convexing mine couldn't exhibit so beautifully.


----------



## ModRQC




----------



## sododgy

lemeneid said:


> I wonder if they will chisel Godzilla on one side and Ultraman on the other




100% would buy with a Mothra chisel


----------



## DitmasPork

I gotta feeling, based on the interest, that they'll sell out quickly. I just might wait until they start popping up on BST in late Fall.


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> I gotta feeling, based on the interest, that they'll sell out quickly. I just might wait until they start popping up on BST in late Fall.


With flippers BST surcharge ie convenience fee tacked on


----------



## ModRQC

Let’s all of us patient folks wait for a third wave BST. With a secone wave of virus dooming over this could come quite quickly who knows, there was quite some folly of buying/selling knives the first wave around.


----------



## labor of love

ModRQC said:


> View attachment 96251


Nice! Where did you get that from?


----------



## ModRQC

labor of love said:


> Nice! Where did you get that from?





ModRQC said:


> It's a very similar choil to my Takada Reika (Tanaka also). This one with more beef at the spine and much more height, allowing tremendous convexing mine couldn't exhibit so beautifully.


----------



## labor of love

Where?


----------



## Robert Lavacca

Yeah these are beautiful. They look really good. Not a workhorse to me. It’s awesome they come with zero low spots etc and also with finger stones. Definitely other blades I would rather have though.


----------



## labor of love

@ModRQC where did you purchase it?


----------



## marc4pt0

I must say that this new iteration of the Fujiyama looks wildly close to the last round of the Larger FM 240's. Aside from the Kanji and natural stone finish, I see no difference. Well, the B2 vs the B1 I suppose.

Mine came in at:

234mm Edge54.5mm tall4.08mm224g


Even the Choil shots look too familiar:

 

Don't get me wrong, I still plan on getting the new version. Or I should say _try _to get the new one. Looks to badass to ignore


----------



## nwshull

marc4pt0 said:


> I must say that this new iteration of the Fujiyama looks wildly close to the last round of the Larger FM 240's. Aside from the Kanji and natural stone finish, I see no difference. Well, the B2 vs the B1 I suppose.
> 
> Mine came in at:
> 
> 234mm Edge54.5mm tall4.08mm224g
> 
> Even the Choil shots look too familiar:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I still plan on getting the new version. Or I should say _try _to get the new one. Looks to badass to ignore



I think there can be some variations in his blades. My Tsubaya significantly less beefy than my dads, and we bought ours at the exact same time, but his is taller and thicker. I find the same with TFs. Only two I have experience with multiple blades of the same model, but I think for normal Japanese hand made knives you have to expect variation. Now again to restate, for the added price, I expect some greater uniformity in dimensions.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Speaking of the prolific Y. Tanaka, did anyone see the price these badass gyutos were going for? I thought vintage Swedish steel was kinda rare. I assume its not the same 100 year old Swedish (from UK steel maker) steel Konosuke was using for their Togo Reigo line...... or is it......


----------



## Corradobrit1

nwshull said:


> I think there can be some variations in his blades. My Tsubaya significantly less beefy than my dads, and we bought ours at the exact same time, but his is taller and thicker. I find the same with TFs. Only two I have experience with multiple blades of the same model, but I think for normal Japanese hand made knives you have to expect variation. Now again to restate, for the added price, I expect some greater uniformity in dimensions.


True for TF. Kiyoshi Kato, on the other hand, is remarkably consistent both in terms of dimensions and weights.


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> True for TF. Kiyoshi Kato, on the other hand, is remarkably consistent both in terms of dimensions and weights.


Are you even aware that you’ve brought up TF 5 times in this thread about a new kono line?


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Are you even aware that you’ve brought up TF 5 times in this thread about a new kono line?


TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> Are you even aware that you’ve brought up TF 5 times in this thread about a new kono line?


Even if this were a thread on shiatsu massage or Disney Land, @Corradobrit1 would find a way to mention TF.


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> Even if this were a thread on shiatsu massage or Disney Land, @Corradobrit1 would find a way to mention TF.


You know it. Lemeneid and I are a tag team, since Inzite got banned.


----------



## ModRQC

labor of love said:


> @ModRQC where did you purchase it?



Stay Sharp 

Also on Hitohira and I would guess some other Hitohira carriers would have it.


----------



## nwshull

Corradobrit1 said:


> Speaking of the prolific Y. Tanaka, did anyone see the price these badass gyutos were going for? I thought vintage Swedish steel was kinda rare. I assume its not the same 100 year old Swedish (from UK steel maker) steel Konosuke was using for their Togo Reigo line...... or is it......



Disagree, I'd assume it is. There was quite a bit of stuff at the time. 

There's a high degree of incestuousness inside the Sakai knife making... cartel? I get the strong impression that there is significant overlap with the craftsmen with Konosuke and Hitohira in particular.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Hitohira has always been knocking off konosuke, no surprise they’re trying to capitalize off the Kono Togo masterpiece. Coke vs. RC


----------



## nwshull

If its the same craftsman, or same lineage, not sure that's a fair analogy. Konosuke didn't exactly invent the steel, or own exclusive rights to the Smith or sharpener on the line. The original Fujiyama sharpener has worked on other lines with Tanaka too, with designs very damn similar to the old Fujiyamas. I'm not sure to what extent they have claim to any sort of idea exclusively, versus the craftsman they contract with which are essentially independent contractors in many ways. I also don't think there's the same cultural negative connotation to replicating success as there is within the West.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Watayama/Toyanabe is _so_ six months ago. Konohira/Hitosuke is on trend


----------



## M1k3

spaceconvoy said:


> Watayama/Toyanabe is _so_ six months ago. Konohira/Hitosuke is on trend


Don't forget TF! F&F and straight spines be damned!


----------



## zizirex

the OG Fujiyama is the original Wide-Bevel knife that's is followed by Kagekiyo, Sakai Kikumori Choyo, Hitohira Kambei/Kyuzo/Etc, OUL. Some of them are made by the same Blacksmith & same sharpener. Different wholesaler means different specs and fits n finish. Also, who knows maybe Hokuto and Kosuke are buddies, they share the same resource for making a similar product.


----------



## josemartinlopez

At what point can you get a knife which is substantially similar, without the branding? You know, like getting a Watanabe gyuto without Toyama kanji?


----------



## ModRQC

At what point would you define one to be essentially different?



josemartinlopez said:


> At what point can you get a knife which is substantially similar, without the branding? You know, like getting a Watanabe gyuto without Toyama kanji?


----------



## tchan001

josemartinlopez said:


> At what point can you get a knife which is substantially similar, without the branding? You know, like getting a Watanabe gyuto without Toyama kanji?


When you use your sharpie on them they all look substantially alike.


----------



## nwshull

zizirex said:


> the OG Fujiyama is the original Wide-Bevel knife that's is followed by Kagekiyo, Sakai Kikumori Choyo, Hitohira Kambei/Kyuzo/Etc, OUL. Some of them are made by the same Blacksmith & same sharpener. Different wholesaler means different specs and fits n finish. Also, who knows maybe Hokuto and Kosuke are buddies, they share the same resource for making a similar product.



Agreed with that. I'm just saying to call it a knock off is unfair. 

If it is the same level of workmanship, by the same people, which they all in my opinion more or less are, at least the ones which share the same sharpener and smith. The apprenticing system teaches you, to in many ways copy your master and Sakai's not THAT big, and when you talk to Japanese sellers not many people are looking to get into the trade. So you're really dealing with a common lineage, which by design copies itself a lot. On top of that there is variation, even within the old Fujiyama lines. I get the spine and choil polish is a particular part of the knife, that may be somewhat more unique, though I'm not sure its defining good vs better. For example, if I had a choice between the same knife profile, sharpener, smith, and I had a 500 dollar budget, one had a trademark spine polish or a mirror finish, and one though had more the handle and was in a steel I slightly preferred but didn't have those, personally I think I might gravitate to the latter. 

Besides at some point, there was a first yanagiba, usuba, deba, etc. Excuse the rant, I just find knock off talk a little bit off putting, especially because it doesn't seem to bother and in fact is in many cases seems encouraged by the Japanese apprenticeship systems, and the Sakai distribution system in particular. ...Granted that may be changing with the newer Western Market obsessing over labels and smith lineage a lot more.


----------



## DitmasPork

josemartinlopez said:


> At what point can you get a knife which is substantially similar, without the branding? You know, like getting a Watanabe gyuto without Toyama kanji?


I don’t quite understand the question, nor the importance of it? Toyama and Watanabe knives are different, albeit similar; Kochi and Wakui have many similar attributes, but aren’t the same; there’re typically huge differences between Heiji (direct) and Gesshin Heiji, with regards to f&f; a knife branded by a particular company might be forged/sharpened by any number of people, yielding different results; etc.


----------



## martinezz

Looking really nice, but as someone mentioned before me, my 2020 knife budget is already blown.


----------



## esoo

With it stated they're only doing 240's this year, my buying urge was just too great and bought a 210 Kono MM instead.


----------



## Bear

Corradobrit1 said:


> Speaking of the prolific Y. Tanaka, did anyone see the price these badass gyutos were going for? I thought vintage Swedish steel was kinda rare. I assume its not the same 100 year old Swedish (from UK steel maker) steel Konosuke was using for their Togo Reigo line...... or is it......



I've been eyeing those as well, the price is crazy but from what I can see there is no crappy bead blast, for that price there better not be.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Bear said:


> I've been eyeing those as well, the price is crazy but from what I can see there is no crappy bead blast, for that price there better not be.


What was the price? Crazy is relative and I amaze myself how widely I apply that term depending on the context.


----------



## ModRQC

Corradobrit1 said:


> What was the price? Crazy is relative and I amaze myself how widely I apply that term depending on the context.



Tosho have an out of stock listing for a FM swedish carbon that was 1050$ CAD. Pretty sure it’s a FM but could be wrong, still gives a ballpark.


----------



## Corradobrit1

ModRQC said:


> Tosho have an out of stock listing for a FM swedish carbon that was 1050$ CAD. Pretty sure it’s a FM but could be wrong, still gives a ballpark.


Different branded knives but the DNA is the same. Both forged by Tanaka with vintage Swedish core steel


----------



## nwshull

The Hitohira website has it out of stock but at almost $1k US. Hitohira Tanaka Kyuzo Vintage Swedish Carbon Limited Migaki Gyuto 240mm Ziricote Handle


----------



## Bear

Kurouchi finish He's supposed to have another one on the way.


----------



## inferno

i'd rather have new swedish steel whatever the F that now might even be.


----------



## Corradobrit1

inferno said:


> i'd rather have new swedish steel whatever the F that now might even be.


Shigefusa has you covered.


----------



## ModRQC

Corradobrit1 said:


> Different branded knives but the DNA is the same. Both forged by Tanaka with vintage Swedish core steel



I thought it looked amazing, I really contemplated the idea of seeking one as I kind of have a fond place for swedish carbon in my heart - being my first Carbon and first knife thinned/sharpened with good results (misono obviously). Usually that kind of prices have me look the other way...


----------



## DitmasPork

Think I'm a sucker for the slick marketing and seductive photography done for Kono Kaiju. My better senses and logic says that I have more than enough workhorse type gyutos—still want a Kaiju though, maybe not the first offerings though.


----------



## JDC

DitmasPork said:


> Think I'm a sucker for the slick marketing and seductive photography done for Kono Kaiju. My better senses and logic says that I have more than enough workhorse type gyutos—still want a Kaiju though, maybe not the first offerings though.


You need this one, it's not a workhorse, it's a laser beam attached to a workhorse.


----------



## jacko9

JDC said:


> You need this one, it's not a workhorse, it's a laser beam attached to a workhorse.


Need and want are different but I think I'll find the space in my kitchen for one of those.


----------



## crocca86

Managed to get one but got no handle and wrong kanji on it....


----------



## Corradobrit1

crocca86 said:


> Managed to get one but got no handle and wrong kanji on it....
> View attachment 96450
> View attachment 96449


I'll take that off your hands so you can get the right one. No point harboring an imposter.....


----------



## M1k3

crocca86 said:


> Managed to get one but got no handle and wrong kanji on it....
> View attachment 96450
> View attachment 96449


Nice Mazaki.


----------



## lemeneid

jacko9 said:


> Need and want are different but I think I'll find the space in my kitchen for one of those.


Yes and it always seems like needs and wants are interchangeable words here on KKF


----------



## Corradobrit1

M1k3 said:


> Nice Mazaki.


Def not a Naoki "don't buy my damascus" Mazaki. No scratch marks


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> Def not a Naoki "don't buy my damascus" Mazaki. No scratch marks


----------



## DitmasPork

lemeneid said:


> Yes and it always seems like needs and wants are interchangeable words here on KKF


'Need' and 'want' are also in a state of constant flux. A decade ago I really needed and wanted a Misono UX10, an expensive knife, the pinnacle of great kitchen knives to me back then.


----------



## RockyBasel

Sadly for my budget, - “want” has nicely merged with “need”


----------



## Ruso

RockyBasel said:


> Sadly for my budget, - “want” has nicely merged with “need”


As long as it matches your can...


----------



## RockyBasel

Busting at the seams unfortunately


----------



## Tien

Got one right here with almost the right weight and kanji


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Sexy boxes but seems like there are only 2 available at Togo?


----------



## Corradobrit1

What a tease


----------



## tchan001

So few morsels are available for so many hungry sharks.


----------



## DitmasPork

Lotta buzz, wonder how many Kaiju knives will be released this weekend?


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> Lotta buzz, wonder how many Kaiju knives will be released this weekend?


Sadly not probably enough for all the hungry sharks out there

Regarding releasing the hounds - How do you know they are releasing them this weekend? And where will we be able to buy them - I presume the usual suspects - Tosho, etc. I better get my refresh finger ready


----------



## Corradobrit1

Lucky I'm no Konosuke fanboi


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> Lucky I'm no Konosuke fanboi


Who knows, Kaiju could convert you you know how this game goes


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> Sadly not probably enough for all the hungry sharks out there
> 
> Regarding releasing the hounds - How do you know they are releasing them this weekend? And where will we be able to buy them - I presume the usual suspects - Tosho, etc. I better get my refresh finger ready



Tosho told me they are hoping to release Kaiju on Oct. 3.


----------



## tchan001

Will be gone faster than a Raquin.


----------



## DitmasPork

tchan001 said:


> Will be gone faster than a Raquin.


How soon you think the first will appear on BST?


----------



## tchan001

Depends who has the fast hands. Maybe a week or two from those who just want to try it out. But if they end up in the hands of collectors, then not for a long time.


----------



## DitmasPork

tchan001 said:


> Depends who has the fast hands. Maybe a week or two from those who just want to try it out. But if they end up in the hands of collectors, then not for a long time.


Most if not all who buy a $700 knife can be considered a collector. Few would splurge that kind of money on a first knife.


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> Most if not all who buy a $700 knife can be considered a collector. Few would splurge that kind of money on a first knife.


Very useful perspective- patience is a virtue - why buy the first batch when better product 9 months away

I am going to stay away from making a Mazaki comparison


----------



## RockyBasel

How can people splurge this money during Covid? Are KKF members immune to this downturn?


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> How can people splurge this money during Covid? Are KKF members immune to this downturn?


I am going to stay away from making a Political statement


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> I am going to stay away from making a Political statement


Thanks - my question was more rhetorical and I was not seeking an actual response


----------



## spaceconvoy

No travel, no eating out, no going to the movies. Imagine if you usually go to a restaurant once a week, you could easily buy a new knife every month with that extra cash. Assuming you're salaried.


----------



## BillHanna

spaceconvoy said:


> No travel, no eating out, no going to the movies. Imagine if you usually go to a restaurant once a week, you could easily buy a new knife every month with that extra cash. Assuming you're salaried.


Alllllllmost there.


----------



## RockyBasel

Very true - it all adds up - have seen this first hand


----------



## M1k3

spaceconvoy said:


> No travel, no eating out, no going to the movies. Imagine if you usually go to a restaurant once a week, you could easily buy a new knife every month with that extra cash. Assuming you're salaried.


1/2 of the equation.


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> How can people splurge this money during Covid? Are KKF members immune to this downturn?



I've probably bought more knives during this covid year more than previous. Lockdown meant working from home, with more time to obsess about knives, and needing retail therapy to keep the mood up. Covid got me to prioritize what's important in life—one of them is kitchen knives. Sad but true.

Covid lockdown also had me cooking more than ever. Need knives to cook with.


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> I've probably bought more knives during this covid year more than previous. Lockdown meant working from home, with more time to obsess about knives, and needing retail therapy to keep the mood up. Covid got me to prioritize what's important in life—one of them is kitchen knives. Sad but true.
> 
> Covid lockdown also had me cooking more than ever. Need knives to cook with.



Spot on. Very well articulated. Now that I think about it, same here - am cooking at home, and obsessing about knives that I don’t need


----------



## DitmasPork

@RockyBasel Also, I usually spend money at bars and restaurants, so have saved a bit of money since they are shut down. Decided to redirect money to knife budget.


----------



## RockyBasel

Me too with no guilt


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> Me too with no guilt


Another way I look at it is, the covid sh**show had turned my life and business a big curve ball. To keep my sanity I could spend $$$ on therapy or a knife. In NYC, the median rate for a therapy session is $200—so the choice is either three therapy sessions or buying a Kaiju gyuto. The latter would bring more happiness, use and longevity.


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> Another way I look at it is, the covid sh**show had turned my life and business a big curve ball. To keep my sanity I could spend $$$ on therapy or a knife. In NYC, the median rate for a therapy session is $200—so the choice is either three therapy sessions or buying a Kaiju gyuto. The latter would bring more happiness, use and longevity.




I am going to have to recite this verbatim to my wife

I mean these knives are good for mental well being and relationship health - and a happy home kitchen life. and they are heirlooms to be passed across generations. They are not expenses, they are investments!

I think I am getting where you are coming from


----------



## ma_sha1

RockyBasel said:


> patience is a virtue - why buy the first batch when better product 9 months away



True, specially, what if they follow-up with a true heavy weight WH Kaiju, i.e. the Mega-Kaiju? 

Which in the end, could only be topped by the real WH Killer, the one & only Godzilla. Imagine the battle between monster workhouse Gyutos: Mega-Kaiju vs. Godzilla, carrots & potato flying everywhere


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> True, specially, what if they follow-up with a true heavy weight WH Kaiju, i.e. the Mega-Kaiju?
> 
> Which in the end, could only be topped by the real WH Killer, the one & only Godzilla. Imagine the battle between monster workhouse Guutos: Mega-Kaiju vs. Godzilla, carrots & potato flying everywhere


I'd pay to watch that. PPV


----------



## ma_sha1

DitmasPork said:


> Another way I look at it is, the covid sh**show had turned my life and business a big curve ball. To keep my sanity I could spend $$$ on therapy or a knife. In NYC, the median rate for a therapy session is $200—so the choice is either three therapy sessions or buying a Kaiju gyuto. The latter would bring more happiness, use and longevity.



Your needs might not have changed whole lot, but your justification skills had gone up 10x


----------



## RockyBasel

ma_sha1 said:


> True, specially, what if they follow-up with a true heavy weight WH Kaiju, i.e. the Mega-Kaiju?
> 
> Which in the end, could only be topped by the real WH Killer, the one & only Godzilla. Imagine the battle between monster workhouse Guutos: Mega-Kaiju vs. Godzilla, carrots & potato flying everywhere


 gimme shelter - from flying carrots

Reminds me of how watches got bigger and bigger and bordered on the absurd eventually

Maybe knives heading in that direction


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I couldn't wait to see a 5.5mm thick 250 gram Mega-Kaiju.


----------



## DitmasPork

ma_sha1 said:


> True, specially, what if they follow-up with a true heavy weight WH Kaiju, i.e. the Mega-Kaiju?
> 
> Which in the end, could only be topped by the real WH Killer, the one & only Godzilla. Imagine the battle between monster workhouse Gyutos: Mega-Kaiju vs. Godzilla, carrots & potato flying everywhere



You know, looking at the specs again, 4mm spine is not that thick, only 0.5mm thicker than my Kochi. I do question how workhorse-like the Kaiju will seem compared to other workhorse knives I have. Even the Kaiju weight doesn't seem beefy.


----------



## Corradobrit1

More like a workseahorse or workshetlandpony


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> More like a workseahorse or workshetlandpony
> 
> View attachment 96918




as long as it’s not a WD - work donkey - wait, is that a CM - I mean she does use rasps

maybe CM is ahead of the game, she was using rasps from actual Work Horses to make knives


----------



## DitmasPork

Just to feed the Kaiju frenzy, a vendor is selling Konosuke lapel pins. I don't know who forged or sharpened them.


----------



## ma_sha1

Corradobrit1 said:


> More like a workseahorse or workshetlandpony
> 
> View attachment 96918



I am pretty sure pony does not work, It’s animal child labor.


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> I am pretty sure pony does not work, It’s animal child labor.


That pony sired several foals.......


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> Just to feed the Kaiju frenzy, a vendor is selling Konosuke lapel pins. I don't know who forged or sharpened them.
> 
> View attachment 96920
> 
> View attachment 96919


I think Tosa junior was the sharpener


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> That pony sired several foals.......


----------



## ma_sha1

DitmasPork said:


> You know, looking at the specs again, 4mm spine is not that thick, only 0.5mm thicker than my Kochi. I do question how workhorse-like the Kaiju will seem compared to other workhorse knives I have. Even the Kaiju weight doesn't seem beefy.
> 
> View attachment 96909



4 mm spine could very well be a middle weight. 

My TF Mab 210 had 4mm spine.
Toyama stainless clad 210, 4.5mm. 

My Shig Kasumi 210, a middle weight comes out the handle at 5mm, so was my Kato 210 WH, turned out to be a middle weight as well weighted only 180g.

Even my Shig Kasumi DIY 180 has a 5 mm spine.

The two Mazaki 210s I had, had the thickest spine, 5.5 -6mm out the handle IIRC.

I really appreciate the 5mm+ spine out the handle, with my neck grip style, super comfy to push down on the spine.


----------



## RockyBasel

ma_sha1 said:


> 4 mm spine could very well be a middle weight.
> 
> My TF Mab 210 had 4mm spine.
> Toyama stainless clad 210, 4.5mm.
> 
> My Shig Kasumi 210, a middle weight comes out the handle at 5mm, so was my Kato 210 WH, turned out to be a middle weight as well weighted only 180g.
> 
> Even my Shig Kasumi DIY 180 has a 5 mm spine.
> 
> The two Mazaki 210s I had, had the thickest spine, 5.5 -6mm out the handle IIRC.
> 
> I really appreciate the 5mm+ spine out the handle, with my neck grip style, super comfy to push down on the spine.


Dang, you have some very fine knives!


----------



## DitmasPork

ma_sha1 said:


> 4 mm spine could very well be a middle weight.
> 
> My TF Mab 210 had 4mm spine.
> Toyama stainless clad 210, 4.5mm.
> 
> My Shig Kasumi 210, a middle weight comes out the handle at 5mm, so was my Kato 210 WH, turned out to be a middle weight as well weighted only 180g.
> 
> Even my Shig Kasumi DIY 180 has a 5 mm spine.
> 
> The two Mazaki 210s I had, had the thickest spine, 5.5 -6mm out the handle IIRC.
> 
> I really appreciate the 5mm+ spine out the handle, with my neck grip style, super comfy to push down on the spine.



Yeah, curious on what the Kaiju weight would be with handle. My associations with 'workhorse' have been a heavier knife.

The 240 Wat I have weighs in at 267g, I consider the Wat as being quite a workhorse type of knife.


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> Yeah, curious on what the Kaiju weight would be with handle. My associations with 'workhorse' have been a heavier knife.
> 
> The 240 Wat I have weighs in at 267g, I consider the Wat as being quite a workhorse type of knife.
> 
> View attachment 96923



my Toyama 270 SS clad blue is about 230 - workhorse like or lite. My Togashi-Tosa blue is 260 gm - but too refined to be a workhorse, maybe. My Koubuse style, 240 mm Swordsmith made Gyuto is 307 gm - that I think is a workhorse for sure


----------



## ref

Hi, it would be great if someone could buy me one.

Thanks


----------



## M1k3

ref said:


> Hi, it would be great if someone could buy me one.
> 
> Thanks


Let me know when you find that person. I'll take one also.


----------



## ma_sha1

RockyBasel said:


> my Toyama 270 SS clad blue is about 230 - workhorse like or lite. My Togashi-Tosa blue is 260 gm - but too refined to be a workhorse, maybe. My Koubuse style, 240 mm Swordsmith made Gyuto is 307 gm - that I think is a workhorse for sure



From what I’ve seen, a WH should have about a gram per mm roughly, I.e. 210g for a 210mm or 240g for a 240mm. If a 210 falls below 200g or a 240 falls below 220g, or 270 falls below 250g, it’s more of a middle weight territory IMHO.


----------



## RockyBasel

M1k3 said:


> Let me know when you find that person. I'll take one also.


----------



## RockyBasel

ma_sha1 said:


> From what I’ve seen, a WH should have about a gram per mm roughly, I.e. 210g for a 210mm or 240g for a 240mm. If a 210 falls below 200g or a 240 falls below 220g, or 270 falls below 250g, it’s more of a middle weight territory IMHO.


That’s a cool way to look at it - simplifies it


----------



## jacko9

Retired people like us living on pension and social security are saving a lot during the COVID lockdown. So an occasional expensive knife purchase doesn't sting as much as before and the Fujiyama Kaiju does look pretty spectacular.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Weirdly enough I’ve saved more cash during this strange and difficult time. Like Spaceconvoy said no travel no entertainment. And no need for new shirts and pants. And my wife spent much less on clothing, shoes and Sephora, too. And she’s become generous regarding my knife spending since she understands its boring to stay home all the time. I hate the pandemic but I love my wife more.


----------



## RockyBasel

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Weirdly enough I’ve saved more cash during this strange and difficult time. Like Spaceconvoy said no travel no entertainment. And no need for new shirts and pants. And my wife spent much less on clothing, shoes and Sephora, too. And she’s become generous regarding my knife spending since she understands its boring to stay home all the time. I hate the pandemic but I love my wife more.



Same


----------



## juice

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> its boring to stay home all the time


Leading people to continually change their avatars...


----------



## Gregmega

It’s crazy how well Konos & Hito have situated themselves with slick marketing and using the drip feed method to prey on this feverish but small sector. They really have the western market’s number dialed.

That being said I’ll see you guys on the keyboards Saturday morning


----------



## ma_sha1

Not me, I am going fishing Sat. morning. I’ll watch the re-run when I get back


----------



## jonnachang

Maybe


----------



## Gregmega

Yeah I think I’m gonna skip this one. Looks cool. But I’ll wait to see what the konos heads have to say.


----------



## tchan001

Whatever happened to the hype with Tetsujin and how many people other than myself actually were able to get one.

If they only produce a few each batch, they should just number these small production knives and sell them like Jiro.


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> Leading people to continually change their avatars...


----------



## tchan001

Looks like you get fingerstones made with uchigumori natural stones along with the Kaiju purchases.


----------



## labor of love

Edit.
I wuz wrong


----------



## jacko9

labor of love said:


> Gesshin Ittetsu Honyaki is instock.
> Just spend another $100.




Thats about $500 more in USD over the Konosuke Kaiju from what I've seen.

Is there any mention on when these knives will be released at Tosho Knife Arts or To Go?


----------



## simar

a workhorse or a honyaki this could get interesting fast


----------



## friz

jacko9 said:


> Thats about $500 more in USD over the Konosuke Kaiju from what I've seen.
> 
> Is there any mention on when these knives will be released at Tosho Knife Arts or To Go?


On IG Kosuke says they are available for sale the 3rd of Oct, but to find out, you will better email the shops.


----------



## Omega

Oct 3rd. Listed on the original launch post.


----------



## simar

I heard the same, there are a very limited number of knives and they are going to be at bleep to go and tosho / ai & om starting Oct 3rd.


----------



## Matus

Gregmega said:


> It’s crazy how well Konos & Hito have situated themselves with slick marketing and using the drip feed method to prey on this feverish but small sector. They really have the western market’s number dialed.



The main reason I don't care much about their products. They feed on hype frenzy. The knvies might well be great, but I don't like the approach.


----------



## M1k3

Matus said:


> The main reason I don't care much about their products. They feed on hype frenzy. The knvies might well be great, but I don't like the approach.


But you get a finger stone with it!


----------



## esoo

Matus said:


> The main reason I don't care much about their products. They feed on hype frenzy. The knvies might well be great, but I don't like the approach.



And how is this different than many other makers? The list is very long of makers that are using the approach of "Post knife on instagram, build hype, sell one only, repeat"


----------



## Matus

esoo said:


> And how is this different than many other makers? The list is very long of makers that are using the approach of "Post knife on instagram, build hype, sell one only, repeat"


I am not saying there are no others, but these two are the prime example. If someone gives heads-up for weeks and then brings like one knife a week or even less, it is just building up a hype. We are not talking about one man workshop like most western (and some Japanese too, of course) makers who just sell all they can make, we are talking about a brand or a dealer/wholesaler where multiple craftsmen are involved in the final product who then brings a few knives to keep the exclusivity up.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Matus said:


> The main reason I don't care much about their products. They feed on hype frenzy. The knvies might well be great, but I don't like the approach.


The recent Togo Reigo releases are an excellent example. They keep finding fresh stock of the unicorn vintage 'Swedish' steel judging by the regular trickle of product appearing for sale after stating this is it, no more, supply is exhausted.


----------



## simar

Corradobrit1 said:


> The recent Togo Reigo releases are an excellent example. They keep finding fresh stock of the unicorn vintage 'Swedish' steel judging by the regular trickle of product appearing for sale after stating this is it, no more, supply is exhausted.


By they, you mean Tanaka-san and a couple of other blacksmiths that make plane blades that have access to it?


----------



## ma_sha1

The tried & true Beanie Baby “limited edition” marketing strategy, still works.


----------



## Corradobrit1

simar said:


> By they, you mean Tanaka-san and a couple of other blacksmiths that make plane blades that have access to it?


Not just the Tanaka version. Tosho sold at least one Kono Togo Reigo recently


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> The tried & true Beanie Baby “limited edition” marketing strategy, still works.


Rolex too. Pump up the hype bubble and trickle release of desirable models. Works amazingly well for them, and as a charitable foundation with no shareholders to appease or profit targets to meet, they are able to adopt this business strategy


----------



## simar

Corradobrit1 said:


> Not just the Tanaka version. Tosho sold at least one Kono Togo Reigo recently


Right, I believe it was stated that those are made by Tanaka san for Konosuke


----------



## DitmasPork

Matus said:


> The main reason I don't care much about their products. They feed on hype frenzy. The knvies might well be great, but I don't like the approach.



Respectfully, I think you have a rather cynical and shortsighted viewpoint of Konosuke’s Kaiju marketing.

Personally, I love the well thought out and executed marketing strategy of Konosuke. Quality is important to me–I respond to good photography, well written text, effective design and sophisticated design used to sell a product. I also value and appreciate creative fields of work, whether it’s the skills of making knives, or the keen eye and knowledge that does into being a graphic designer, or the savviness of a writer. My viewpoint perhaps shaped by knowing many in the creative field, and understanding how difficult it is making a living as knife maker, writer or designer—and being ready to acknowledge a well made knife or well made marketing. Yes, as I said, quality counts.

The website is understated and elegant, photography sexy, writing is well crafted.

Fact is. A big company has the financial ability to commission the best forger and sharpener they can find—and also hire a talented designer, writer, etc.

All knife makers use marketing to either sell their knives direct or grab attention of vendors to do the grunt work of selling—some use knife fairs, others rely on social media, others might pass around knives to chefs hoping for traction from word-of-mouth.

TBH, there are many knife makers who I love dearly for the great knives they produce—but when it comes to marketing, it is cringe worthy amateur hour—IG feeds treated in the most pedestrian fashion; barely functional websites; poorly worded descriptions doing an injustice to a knife they put heart and soul into; etc. Other makers I know have a more advanced understanding of how the market has changed, and the importance of creative collaboration—general rule is, if you can’t write or design well, hire a designer or writer to use their expertise.

With the current buzz around the forthcoming Kaiju, this particular thread perhaps more effective than Konosuke marketing in stirring up hyperbole to a specific niche market that will actually buy the knives.

The Kaiju marketing I’ve seen—a few IG posts and info on Konosuke website is admirable and thorough. They have done their research, listened (read) to knife users—identified a desire and market for ‘workhorse’ gyutos, brought together two highly revered craftsman, to produce a knife—thus capturing the imagination of a good number of knife collectors on KKF. They’re not cheap knives, but I’ll wager they sell out very quickly—the $600+ for them an appropriate price IMO.
Until I get a Kaiju in my hands, I obviously won’t know if the hype is justified or not, and don’t see any ‘red flags’ in the marketing that feels deceptive or overstated (see Misen). I’ve seen the occasional deception and misinformation be individual KKF BST.

When you say “…feed on hype frenzy,” you make Konosuke sound so predatory, making knife buyers seem like lemmings. You’re perhaps not giving enough credit to the knowledge of buyers, to those on this KKF who’re excited about Kaiju—I’m confident that the majority of members here willing to spend $600+ on a Kaiju will do it with eyes wide open.

Good business sense is that if you invest a lot into a product, you also invest into marketing that product.


----------



## ref

DitmasPork said:


> When you say “…feed on hype frenzy,” you make Konosuke sound so predatory, making knife buyers seem like lemmings. You’re perhaps not giving enough credit to the knowledge of buyers, to those on this KKF who’re excited about Kaiju—I’m confident that the majority of members here willing to spend $600+ on a Kaiju will do it with eyes wide open.



I understand when large companies make fancy videogame trailers which are completely misleading, just for the purpose for creating a huge amount of hype.

But in this case we're talking about a rather niche hobby with historically bad marketing so a nice website isn't an unwelcome thing.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Pretty much just chumming the fish.


----------



## Matus

@DitmasPork - you are making some good points and I am willing to partially backtrack from my position. But at the beginning Konosuke were making some really nice knives at a price point that was 'normal' for the quality and they knives were not being made in a single digit numbers. Today they are often made as unobtanium, everything around them is secret like a 'special steel' or how they are made. I agree about the presentation (and it indeed does bring value). In other words - the target group seems to be more collectors than users who appreciate a high quality tool. Whether this will be the case for Kaiju I don't know. Value of certain product (and especially in such a non-essential product category) is very subjective and for me when look at Konosuke I see a brand, not the craftsmen and in this regard it is little different from many other brands that just did not market themselves in such an exklusive manner. All this says nothing about quality and I am not in a position to discuss that.


----------



## DitmasPork

Matus said:


> @DitmasPork - you are making some good points and I am willing to partially backtrack from my position. But at the beginning Konosuke were making some really nice knives at a price point that was 'normal' for the quality and they knives were not being made in a single digit numbers. Today they are often made as unobtanium, everything around them is secret like a 'special steel' or how they are made. I agree about the presentation (and it indeed does bring value). In other words - the target group seems to be more collectors than users who appreciate a high quality tool. Whether this will be the case for Kaiju I don't know. Value of certain product (and especially in such a non-essential product category) is very subjective and for me when look at Konosuke I see a brand, not the craftsmen and in this regard it is little different from many other brands that just did not market themselves in such an exklusive manner. All this says nothing about quality and I am not in a position to discuss that.



Admittedly, I'm a relatively new collector, buying my first J-knife around 2011, give or take. Honestly, I've not paid much attention to Kono and not a Fujiyama fan (sold mine), but intrigued by Kaiju since I prefer workhorses. 

I always take any marketing with a grain of salt, as I assume many that purchase $500+ knives also do—usually able to see through the fairy dust to the substance. Example is Misen, a knife brand with arguably one of the more aggressive and sophisticated marketing campaigns—which KKF members have mostly written off as a mediocre knife.

I do respect and appreciate where you're viewpoint is coming. Mine partially comes from the desire to want knife makers to make a decent living—whether selling direct or working for Konosuke. With Kaiju, they've set a pretty high bar, at least on paper. Even the inclusion of finger stones a nice perk that others might follow.


----------



## wsides91

tchan001 said:


> Depends who has the fast hands. Maybe a week or two from those who just want to try it out. But if they end up in the hands of collectors, then not for a long time.



These are blue steel correct? I would assume that as long as they are not swedish steel they can be made more frequently than their rare variant


----------



## simar

wsides91 said:


> These are blue steel correct? I would assume that as long as they are not swedish steel they can be made more frequently than their rare variant


I believe a small number of knives were sent to bleep to go (is getting Blue 2), and Tosho / Ai & OM (are getting Blue 1) 

as to these being unobtainium I think the unobtainium aspect of the brand is a byproduct of the successes in marketing and their ability to deliver quality to the consumer that holds enough value for the consumer to keep coming back. Its a good problem to have in my mind.


----------



## wsides91

I have several of their knives. Their quality is excellent. You do end up paying more for steel and handle type depending on the vendor, but I have not found that they are unreasonable for what you get


----------



## spaceconvoy

I'm not sure what the point to this argument is other than, "markets change." When Kosuke took the reins of Konosuke, there were probably fewer wa gyuto manufacturers in the entire world than there are small-batch instagram artisans in the united states alone today. It's tough being an established business with several employees competing against single-man operations with zero marketing or sales costs thanks to social media. Especially when the currency in this market is rarity and hand-crafted-ness. If they didn't resort to these tactics, they'd be dead in the water. If you're going to be upset, be upset at people like us who have popularized this market to the saturation point.


----------



## simar

Matus said:


> Value of certain product (and especially in such a non-essential product category) is very subjective and for me when look at Konosuke I see a brand, not the craftsmen and in this regard it is little different from many other brands that just did not market themselves in such an exklusive manner.


As a maker I think you can understand the value of marketing your brand. One of the things I appreciate about Konosukes’ direction in recent marketing efforts is giving credit to the craftsmen behind the brand. I think this and the in-house polishing step they are taking on the workhorse blade is going to be looked at by some potential buyers as more care taken to make something and that may hold more value for them.


----------



## nwshull

I don't think we as a community can complain about hype markets we create. Its kind of like NYC night club owners saying how awful Colombian Coke cartels are.


----------



## M1k3

nwshull said:


> I don't think we as a community can complain about hype markets we create. Its kind of like NYC night club owners saying how awful Colombian Coke cartels are.


I know, right? The Amish ones are so much worse!


----------



## DitmasPork

nwshull said:


> I don't think we as a community can complain about hype markets we create. Its kind of like NYC night club owners saying how awful Colombian Coke cartels are.



I like hype—it brings knives to my attention. TBH, pretty much every knife I've bought has been either influenced or informed by hype in some form—from friends that have used them; from trusted vendors that are excited about a particular knife; from forums and social media; from press on a maker. If not for hype and reviews, it's unlikely I would've landed Raquin, Kato, Shig, Yanick, Takada, etc. I didn't have the ability to tryout any of those knives before acquiring—thus needed to depend on hype, along with my judgement and preferences. Hype adds a bit of excitement to buying a knife. Buying any knife is a calculated risk against one's expectations—I'm currently batting about .800 with my choices.


----------



## simar

DitmasPork said:


> I like hype—it brings knives to my attention...I'm currently batting about .800 with my choices.


----------



## Twigg

Hyping up a new offering is awesome. It directs some attention away from what I am really after.


----------



## Gregmega

Matus said:


> The main reason I don't care much about their products. They feed on hype frenzy. The knvies might well be great, but I don't like the approach.


Agreed- it’s marketing really play at the end of the day. Not to discount the makers, it’s all fine stuff. Sometimes it feels contrived.


----------



## juice

Gregmega said:


> Sometimes it feels contrived.


Yep, that's marketing in a nutshell.


----------



## zizirex

Hype for Konosuke / Hitohira is "wrong" but Hype for Kato / Shigefusa is "right"?

Well, it's so KKF...


----------



## Gregmega

I gonna go out on a limb and guess that shig and kato don’t have a marketing team or an IG acct or a brand strategy or slick packaging or a website or new exotic wood and horn offerings or hip new profiles aimed at catching all the kiddies lunch money. Just a guess tho.


----------



## simar

Gregmega said:


> I gonna go out on a limb and guess that shig and kato don’t have...



Do they need to? If they had inventory sitting at dealers that hasn’t moved for a while and is causing orders to stop flowing then I could see a business case behind investing resources to create more demand. From what I can tell both Shigefusa and Kato seem to be priced at the higher end of the market likely due to demand being greater than supply, so they are doing something right without investing in demand creation.


----------



## Gregmega

Yeah man, mine was a mildly facetious response to the previous post to light the landscape of false equivalence in his post. A bit of the ol’ tongue in cheek if you will.


----------



## juice

simar said:


> Do they need to?


Nup. That's Gregmega's point, indeed.


----------



## Matus

zizirex said:


> Hype for Konosuke / Hitohira is "wrong" but Hype for Kato / Shigefusa is "right"?
> 
> Well, it's so KKF...



I want to apologize for steering the discussion the wrong way. This would be a fair point for a separate thread.


----------



## DitmasPork

Matus said:


> I want to apologize for steering the discussion the wrong way. This would be a fair point for a separate thread.


No apology needed, I find the occasional veering off path of threads to contain often informative stuff.


----------



## DitmasPork

simar said:


> Do they need to? If they had inventory sitting at dealers that hasn’t moved for a while and is causing orders to stop flowing then I could see a business case behind investing resources to create more demand. From what I can tell both Shigefusa and Kato seem to be priced at the higher end of the market likely due to demand being greater than supply, so they are doing something right without investing in demand creation.



Depends on the business philosophy of the seller. Even with Katos/Shigs, my business sense would be to move inventory as quickly as possible, market aggressively while there is interest, free up room for more—'strike while the iron is hot,' as they say.


----------



## simar

DitmasPork said:


> Depends on the business philosophy of the seller. Even with Katos/Shigs, my business sense would be to move inventory as quickly as possible, market aggressively while there is interest, free up room for more—'strike while the iron is hot,' as they say.


I agree. I think that it is the business philosophy driving these decisions along with capacity limitations given the limited number of artisans available.


----------



## DitmasPork

.


----------



## tchan001

Good Luck to all the hungry sharks. Please post pictures and tell us how you like it if you are lucky.


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> Depends on the business philosophy of the seller. Even with Katos/Shigs, my business sense would be to move inventory as quickly as possible, market aggressively while there is interest, free up room for more—'strike while the iron is hot,' as they say.


When you have 3-5 years of orders in the books, marketing is just an unnecessary distraction.


----------



## DitmasPork

Corradobrit1 said:


> When you have 3-5 years of orders in the books, marketing is just an unnecessary distraction.



Perhaps, but marketing an unavailable product can bring buzz and attention to the business, visits to the website, for potential customers to buy other knives. It's a strategy. Traction.


----------



## esoo

DitmasPork said:


> Perhaps, but marketing an unavailable product can bring buzz and attention to the business, visits to the website, for potential customers to buy other knives. It's a strategy. Traction.



This only works for dedicated buyers that want that specific product. If there is competing products in the marketplace, the consumer will move on.


----------



## DitmasPork

esoo said:


> This only works for dedicated buyers that want that specific product. If there is competing products in the marketplace, the consumer will move on.


Many business, like mine try a number of different approaches.


----------



## esoo

True - Konosuke lost me on the Kaiju as I wanted a 210 and they said not this year, but I bought a MM instead.


----------



## DitmasPork

esoo said:


> True - Konosuke lost me on the Kaiju as I wanted a 210 and they said not this year, but I bought a MM instead.


Figure they're just doing one size to see how it goes. I am curious on how many Kaijus are bing produced and if they will sell out or not.


----------



## Jason183

600 too much


----------



## DitmasPork

Jason183 said:


> 600 too much


Too much for you, too much for me, not too much for those in the queue who set their alarms for tomorrow morning.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

Kaiju.. the lil’ sebastian of workhorses.

Do look pretty nice. It reminds me of when these guys sand and then polish their katos. Was never a konosuke guy. Just not a fan of their grinds etc so i’ll probably skip this one. Seems a ton of people are interested though and I doubt ToGo has a ton. I love the hype of this kono. Leaves other blades for me


----------



## IronBalloon

esoo said:


> True - Konosuke lost me on the Kaiju as I wanted a 210 and they said not this year, but I bought a MM instead.


I wonder if they’re sticking to a 240 because they think the thicker “workshorse” grind is better with more real estate so to speak?


----------



## esoo

The thicker grind will allow more metal to deal with any low spots. 

240s are more in demand than 210 for this kind of knife, so the decision on not surprising


----------



## Gregmega

Tminus 15hrs and counting


----------



## M1k3

Gregmega said:


> Tminus 15hrs and counting


----------



## Twigg

It says it comes with a wooden box. Does anyone know anything about these boxes? Are they nice presentation/display boxes? Definitely want to know what I might be getting into.


----------



## M1k3

Twigg said:


> It says it comes with a wooden box. Does anyone know anything about these boxes? Are they nice presentation/display boxes? Definitely want to know what I might be getting into.


They have 6 sides. Made of wood. No splinters. Fits the knife. Decently made.*




*Just a wild guess. But if all this is wrong, shame on Konosuke!


----------



## Twigg

M1k3 said:


> They have 6 sides. Made of wood. No splinters. Fits the knife. Decently made.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Just a wild guess. But if all this is wrong, shame on Konosuke!


I hope you are right, I need some new pics for the box thread.


----------



## juice

Gregmega said:


> Tminus 15hrs and counting


Midnight my time. Good thing I'm not interested.



Twigg said:


> I hope you are right, I need some new pics for the box thread.


I have one just about ready to go for that thread...


----------



## IronBalloon

Twigg said:


> It says it comes with a wooden box. Does anyone know anything about these boxes? Are they nice presentation/display boxes? Definitely want to know what I might be getting into.


I think it’s probably a little coffin for your wallet.

konosuke always look really well finished, I imagine it’ll be a really nice box whatever it’s like.


----------



## jacko9

Dang and I was saving for a Honyaki Gyuto - well got a few hours to decide! Konosuke Kaiju or Sakai Takayuki Blue 1 Mizu-Honyaki Gyuto 240mm by Kenji Togashi


----------



## Bear

Twigg said:


> It says it comes with a wooden box. Does anyone know anything about these boxes? Are they nice presentation/display boxes? Definitely want to know what I might be getting into.


----------



## M1k3

Bear said:


> View attachment 97221


Someone's OCD is getting aggravated.


----------



## Gregmega

jacko9 said:


> Dang and I was saving for a Honyaki Gyuto - well got a few hours to decide! Konosuke Kaiju or Sakai Takayuki Blue 1 Mizu-Honyaki Gyuto 240mm by Kenji Togashi


I’ll do ya a favor and buy that one of a kind togashi so you won’t lose sleep


----------



## Gregmega

Looks like the new FM is beefier as well. Perhaps they’re merging the two. Konos email blast for the release just dropped


----------



## simar

DitmasPork said:


> Too much for you, too much for me, not too much for those in the queue who set their alarms for tomorrow morning.


With the two available at each of the vendors, bleep to go and Tosho and AI & OM, I wonder where people are going to try their luck first?


----------



## juice

A browser tab open at each, I expect


----------



## tchan001

How hated would someone be if able to buy one of each from two stores for comparison. Keep the one with the nicer fingerstone.


----------



## simar

tchan001 said:


> How hated would someone be if able to buy one of each from two stores for comparison.


If they can afford it then why hate them, in fact if they were able to compare and share the experience then they are doing us all a service


----------



## Gregmega

tchan001 said:


> How hated would someone be if able to buy one of each from two stores for comparison. Keep the one with the nicer fingerstone.


And flip the other


----------



## juice

tchan001 said:


> How hated would someone be if able to buy one of each from two stores for comparison. Keep the one with the nicer fingerstone.


Yeah, I did think that could be ... interesting


----------



## Moooza

AI and OM is my bet. Reasonably priced, good service, etc.


----------



## M1k3

tchan001 said:


> How hated would someone be if able to buy one of each from two stores for comparison. Keep the one with the nicer fingerstone.


I wouldn't hate them. Probably have all kinds of '?' running through my head though.


----------



## zizirex

Tosho will have 3 for tomorrow, and Ai & Om will get some later this month. I thought it will be very expensive, but it's not that as high as I thought and pretty reasonable for that package.


----------



## friz

Do we know how many Kaiju will To Go have, how many will Tosho have and how many will Ai&Om have?

Also, do we know how they differ from vendor to vendor? Are they all blue#2? All Ziricote wood for the handle? All with Uchigomori finger stone?

Thanks.


----------



## simar

Tosho and AI & OM have Blue 1 and bleep to go has Blue 2


----------



## Omega

Tosho and Ai and Om have Blue 1
ToGo has Blue 2

Entire first batch will have Ziricote handles with horn ferrule, and Hazuya Finger stones.


----------



## damiano

Out of stock! Or is it?


----------



## Barry's Knives

Twigg said:


> It says it comes with a wooden box. Does anyone know anything about these boxes? Are they nice presentation/display boxes? Definitely want to know what I might be getting into.


----------



## DitmasPork

Wahnamhong said:


> Out of stock! Or is it?View attachment 97254


In stock, they've not been released yet.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Looked at it at 9 and 10 EST and no luck. I think they might be waiting for folks in pacific time to wake up. Maybe 11?


----------



## josemartinlopez

What do people think is the best workhorse available that the Kaiju is competing with? Anyone care to list the competition?

Shall we start the list with Jiro?


----------



## DitmasPork

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Looked at it at 9 and 10 EST and no luck. I think they might be waiting for folks in pacific time to wake up. Maybe 11?


I'm sure West Coast Kaiju fans have been up, drinking their 4th cup of coffee in front of computer by now.


----------



## DitmasPork

josemartinlopez said:


> What do people think is the best workhorse available that the Kaiju is competing with? Anyone care to list the competition?
> 
> Shall we start the list with Jiro?


Sounds like the great start of a new thread by you!


----------



## friz

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Looked at it at 9 and 10 EST and no luck. I think they might be waiting for folks in pacific time to wake up. Maybe 11?


Australians are concern for no one......


----------



## Luke_G

maybe we all were too slow and it already happened?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

No inventory available notification email so I bet not yet.


----------



## tchan001

Hope somebody on KKF gets one and posts pics.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Not fast enough...


----------



## Giovanny Torres

Gone


----------



## tincent

Still avail in b2. Wonder for how long.

Not long enough to type this out.


----------



## DitmasPork

Best to wait for one to be flipped on BST next week for +50%. #rare


----------



## Ruso

First Hype Ship had sailed. Ha Ha
Now waiting for Ship number 2 with even more hype and whistles.


----------



## DitmasPork

Ruso said:


> First Hype Ship had sailed. Ha Ha
> Now waiting for Ship number 2 with even more hype and whistles.


I’m over it. Kaiju is sooo 10 minutes ago. Time to move on.


----------



## Twigg

They went fast


----------



## DitmasPork

Gregmega said:


> Agreed- it’s marketing really play at the end of the day. Not to discount the makers, it’s all fine stuff. Sometimes it feels contrived.


Alright, I take back some of my pro-hype enthusiasm for Kono marketing earlier on this thread. I find it ludicrous that they've slickly marketed and created so much hyperbole for a knife that has only produced measly 2–3 Kaijus for each vendor. Really thought they'd be at least 10–20 knives per vendor on offer.


----------



## Corradobrit1

@JML "Did you buy it?"


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> Alright, I take back some of my pro-hype enthusiasm for Kono marketing earlier on this thread. I find it ludicrous that they've slickly marketed and created so much hyperbole for a knife that has only produced measly 2–3 Kaijus for each vendor. Really thought they'd be at least 10–20 knives per vendor on offer.


At least Mark refused to sell 2 knives to the same buyer. But yes, ludicrous that stock is so limited. Total turn off, just like my feelings for Rolex


----------



## M1k3




----------



## juice

DitmasPork said:


> I find it ludicrous that they've slickly marketed and created so much hyperbole for a knife that has only produced measly 2–3 Kaijus for each vendor. Really thought they'd be at least 10–20 knives per vendor on offer.


Artificial scarcity FTW!

Which is why people were pre-emptively annoyed, I suspect.


----------



## M1k3




----------



## Gregmega

DitmasPork said:


> Alright, I take back some of my pro-hype enthusiasm for Kono marketing earlier on this thread. I find it ludicrous that they've slickly marketed and created so much hyperbole for a knife that has only produced measly 2–3 Kaijus for each vendor. Really thought they'd be at least 10–20 knives per vendor on offer.


Listen, this is not a new strategy. They use this all the time in the fashion & art industry as a tactic. It’s called the drip feed. It’s used to create massive hype and exclusivity. They could’ve produced 100 of these things if they wanted to. It’s all arbitrary and a matter of choice how many they leak to the market- but if anyone knows by now the power of the secondary market, it’s Konos. These have that much more immediate value because they’ve choked down the supply. Happy hunting boys!

PS- what a great strategy to spread them across the vendors as well- very slick. Talk about knowing your target demographic. Hook line and sinker.


----------



## Mikeadunne

Did anyone snag this? This is one of the few downsides to being in the pacific coast time zone - can’t for the life of me wake up on time for these things.


----------



## kevin

Tosho’s will be available at 12PM PST/ 3PM EST.

About a hour and a half to go


----------



## Gregmega

Mikeadunne said:


> Did anyone snag this? This is one of the few downsides to being in the pacific coast time zone - can’t for the life of me wake up on time for these things.


The best of them never reveal - no kiss and tell


----------



## parbaked

Gregmega said:


> It’s called the drip feed.


It's almost as annoying as waiting 8 months for my CM cheese knife...


----------



## Mikeadunne

Gregmega said:


> The best of them never reveal - no kiss and tell


I just wanna know that it went to a good home


----------



## Gregmega

parbaked said:


> It's almost as annoying as waiting 8 months for my CM cheese knife...


You can’t rush perfection


----------



## Corradobrit1

Gregmega said:


> You can’t rush perfection


That nail polish doesn't apply itself


----------



## DitmasPork

Alright, about 10 minutes to go before Tosho opens its gates. Wondering how many people have stretched out their wrists, fingers already on mouse ready to click.

I'm looking for that first 'WTB Kaiju' post.


----------



## Twigg




----------



## Twigg

Had it in my cart and just needed to push the PayPal complete. It was good practice. I just don't want this.


----------



## DitmasPork

Wow. Quick. Able to get it in cart at 3:00, sold out by the time I blinked.


----------



## Mikeadunne

That was less than 30 seconds


----------



## M1k3

Mikeadunne said:


> That was less than 30 seconds


That's what she said


----------



## JDC

Mine said card can't verify, switched to paypal, then soldout


----------



## friz

Do you guys think there is difference in quality between to go, tosho and ai&om, for this line of knives? Or just the difference in steel?


----------



## zizirex

there was the Thicker FM one. that's kinda interesting if you don't mind the extra polishing and finger stone etc.


----------



## JDC

friz said:


> Do you guys think there is difference in quality between to go, tosho and ai&om, for this line of knives? Or just the difference in steel?


Difference in steel.


----------



## JDC

zizirex said:


> there was the Thicker FM one. that's kinda interesting if you don't mind the extra polishing and finger stone etc.


The problem are the low spots, you may alter the geometry too much on coarse stones.


----------



## zizirex

JDC said:


> The problem are the low spots, you may alter the geometry too much on coarse stones.


it's true if you are chasing perfection. For Home use, I think that doesn't matter too much.


----------



## Jason183

I prefer blue2 for gyuto, blue 1 too chippy, only for vegetables


----------



## jacko9

Had it in my cart as soon as I received the email but, decided that it was nothing more than a polished version of many other knives I already have so I took it out of my cart instead of hitting the buy icon.


----------



## juice

jacko9 said:


> the buy icon


"the buycon"


----------



## friz

I had it in my cart, then realised I was poor. And I removed it from the cart. I had a second thought, so I added it to the cart again, I was about to press the buy button and was just then I thought, "is this what I really want?". I removed from the cart. I regretted my decision instantly, I added to the cart but I couldn't press the buy button because.... it was all a dream..... here in Australia.


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> "the buycon"


Inspired by CJA?


----------



## friz

@M1k3 can you elaborate?


----------



## M1k3

friz said:


> @M1k3 can you elaborate?








Anyone heard from Cris Anderson?


I have a knife on order from Cris, but I haven’t heard from him in 5 months aside from a short message 2 months ago and his email is undeliverable. Has anyone spoken to him recently, or know what’s going on?




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





P.S. Didn't mean to quote you. My apologies.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I was able to add the b2 one to the cart at Togo at 11:01. Did try to checkout. Used PayPal checkout so with faceid it was really fast, then all of sudden it went back to the checkout page because I needed to type in a phone number. After phone number it was the “Send Order” button, which I did push but then it said my cart became empty. I think I lost at the phone number step. should have used auto fill of credit card and address by safari instead of PayPal checkout because safari has my phone number.


----------



## jacko9

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I was able to add the b2 one to the cart at Togo at 11:01. Did try to checkout. Used PayPal checkout so with faceid it was really fast, then all of sudden it went back to the checkout page because I needed to type in a phone number. After phone number it was the “Send Order” button, which I did push but then it said my cart became empty. I think I lost at the phone number step. should have used auto fill of credit card and address by safari instead of PayPal checkout because safari has my phone number.



I kind of look at my similar experience as it wasn't meant to be ;-)


----------



## ian

All y’all are crazy.


----------



## Corradobrit1

ian said:


> All y’all are crazy.


Anyone would think these were Kato's


----------



## tchan001

There seems to be a lot of people puting money into fine knives with money they used to put into fine dining prior to COVID. But I could be wrong of course.


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> All y’all are crazy.


----------



## Jason183

tchan001 said:


> There seems to be a lot of people puting money into fine knives with money they used to put into fine dining prior to COVID. But I could be wrong of course.



TBH I just got into Japanese knives few months ago because of COVID, I have nothing to do during quarantine, then took the time researching About the knive steels and blacksmith etc also bought few of them, Liked someone said, once you try the Japanese knives you will never go back to western again lol. I’m sure there’s many ppl liked me during this period of time.


----------



## BillHanna

I had gotten rid of a harmful habit that had me online all hours of the day. Constantly searching.

um. yeah. Life is totally different now. Yep.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Jason183 said:


> I prefer blue2 for gyuto, blue 1 too chippy, only for vegetables


Depends who forges it. Not sure I;ve read of any Togashi B#1 owners complaining about chippiness


----------



## simar

I have a kono 240 fm in blue 1 that isn’t chippy


----------



## tchan001

Jason183 said:


> TBH I just got into Japanese knives few months ago because of COVID, I have nothing to do during quarantine, then took the time researching About the knive steels and blacksmith etc also bought few of them, Liked someone said, once you try the Japanese knives you will never go back to western again lol. I’m sure there’s many ppl liked me during this period of time.


I would rather say "never go back to mass-produced western again" unless you plan to let someone else borrow a knife. Then you need to keep something cheap around.


----------



## Jason183

tchan001 said:


> I would rather say "never go back to mass-produced western again" unless you plan to let someone else borrow a knife. Then you need to keep something cheap around.



True, I used to have one of the mass-produced western as my main working knife, but now I only use it as a beater knife.


----------



## RockyBasel

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I was able to add the b2 one to the cart at Togo at 11:01. Did try to checkout. Used PayPal checkout so with faceid it was really fast, then all of sudden it went back to the checkout page because I needed to type in a phone number. After phone number it was the “Send Order” button, which I did push but then it said my cart became empty. I think I lost at the phone number step. should have used auto fill of credit card and address by safari instead of PayPal checkout because safari has my phone number.



I thought Tosho was only selling a blue 1 Kaiju - did they have a blue 2 as well?


----------



## M1k3

RockyBasel said:


> I thought Tosho was only selling a blue 1 Kaiju - did they have a blue 2 as well?


He was shopping on Togo, not Tosho.


----------



## RockyBasel

I got it, thought Togo was an autocorrect of Tosho 

Odd that they use different steel by vendor


----------



## jacko9

RockyBasel said:


> I thought Tosho was only selling a blue 1 Kaiju - did they have a blue 2 as well?



Blue #2 at ToGo. I didn't see where Tosho listed the Kaiju knives under Konosuke and I checked and searched their site.


----------



## RockyBasel

jacko9 said:


> Blue #2 at ToGo. I didn't see where Tosho listed the Kaiju knives under Konosuke and I checked and searched their site.


Under new


----------



## esoo

RockyBasel said:


> I got it, thought Togo was an autocorrect of Tosho
> 
> Odd that they use different steel by vendor



It matches the way the Fujiyama is distributed (at least for North America)
White 1 - Ai & Om
White 2 - Bernal
Blue 1 - Tosho
Blue 2 - CKtG


----------



## jacko9

RockyBasel said:


> Under new


Thanks I wish I knew that before I would definitely have tried for a B#1 Kaiju. Dang I had searched that site for a week looking to see if they were going to put that knife up. Oh well, learned now and better late than never. I kind of think that knife won't be in stock again for a while.


----------



## esoo

I'd been scanning Tosho to see what they were going to list it at and it wasn't under new until they put it up for sale.


----------



## RockyBasel

Tosho told me that they will be getting a new batch in a few months 

I would suggest making sure Santa knows


----------



## RockyBasel

esoo said:


> It matches the way the Fujiyama is distributed (at least for North America)
> White 1 - Ai & Om
> White 2 - Bernal
> Blue 1 - Tosho
> Blue 2 - CKtG


Very helpful, btw, good to know


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

So...

Did anyone end up snagging one? 

When's the passaround happening


----------



## IronBalloon

How many were released for sale? Seems like there’s barely any.


----------



## Receiver52

Corradobrit1 said:


> Depends who forges it. Not sure I;ve read of any Togashi B#1 owners complaining about chippiness



No chippy on my Honyaki.

As I live close to Tosho, it would have been interesting to see how they would have reacted to me asking for the Konosuke in person at exactly 3. Maybe next time if I’m still as bored as I am now.


----------



## juice

IronBalloon said:


> How many were released for sale? Seems like there’s barely any.


"Artificial scarcity, a case study for knife collectors"


----------



## M1k3

IronBalloon said:


> How many were released for sale? Seems like there’s barely any.


Just enough to say they were made. And sold by more than 1 vendor.


----------



## JDC

It appears that CKTG had 2 and Tosho had 3 + 2 "by-product" FMs


----------



## DitmasPork

JDC said:


> It appears that CKTG had 2 and Tosho had 3 + 2 "by-product" FMs


The 'by-product' at Tosho looked better than the Kaiju to me, cheaper, liked the dimensions more—little interest in fancy wooden box or finger stones.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Well i was pretty close on the weight. 225g


----------



## ref

Guys actually I managed to buy all of them. But I will be releasing them next month on the BST, starting at $1200 (+VAT, P&P and paypal fees). However, I will add an extra fingerstone.


(just joking I would totally buy one if I was super rich)


----------



## M1k3

ref said:


> Guys actually I managed to buy all of them. But I will be releasing them next month on the BST, starting at $1200 (+VAT, P&P and paypal fees). However, I will add an extra fingerstone.
> 
> 
> (just joking I would totally buy one if I was super rich)


GLWS
PM sent


----------



## IronBalloon

juice said:


> "Artificial scarcity, a case study for knife collectors"


Oh well if it’s for science then by all means Kono screw me


----------



## RockyBasel

M1k3 said:


> GLWS
> PM sent


----------



## RockyBasel

IronBalloon said:


> Oh well if it’s for science then by all means Kono screw me



If it were not scarce, I don’t think it would get this much attention and buying intentions on this forum. Also, they are likely to raise prices soon - given the demand and lack of supply (perhaps by design)

Well known marketing or selling strategy to create perceived lack of supply from Hermès bags to lines outside clubs/retail stores.

That being said, I think the knife is of higher quality than the much desired “normal” FM blue

But when I get it this week, I will know for sure


----------



## friz

Funny thing is, Kaiju seem not to reach the 55mm height this time. Tosho listed theirs at 53mm height, the by-product was even shorter at 52mm.
I am curious how tall were the ToGo ones, as they listed the specs from Konosuke website. Also curious about Ai&Om version.

I couldn't snag the Kaiju from Tosho, I was thinking to go for a by-broduct, but only for the thicker spine I passed, I wish it was taller than 52mm too.


----------



## RockyBasel

I think there is variance from knife to knife when hand forged - so the knife could arrive 54mm in height

ToGo says 54-55 mm in height - but that could be 53 in actuality

I have found that in many purchases - listed weights and heel heights do not always match arriving products - in case of Y Tanaka especially.

I ordered JNS Y Tanaka dammy and it was listed as 185 gm, came in at 205 gm. I liked that actually, thin tip, with bit of feel in hand

I ordered a Heiji, SS listed at 250 gm, it arrived at 208 gm - thin and far better performer than it’s thicker and more muscular carbon brother

I think there will be variations from knife to knife in the hand-forged world and a mm here or there, or a few gram here will be in variance from published specs


----------



## friz

@RockyBasel Those to me are not so good experiences. Especially for weight. 
If you know the knives you are selling are not going to reach 55mm, do not advertise them like so.


----------



## RockyBasel

friz said:


> @RockyBasel Those to me are not so good experiences. Especially for weight.
> If you know the knives you are selling are not going to reach 55mm, do not advertise them like so.



I think you make a good point - I did want to send the Heiji back, but they said the current batch that I got were all like that, much thinner behind the edge than their “normal” profile so the difference would be the same

But it all worked out - in the sense, this new Heiji profile is a really a better performing profile - I wish they were all like that

My main point was there will be some human factor driven variations in hand-crafted knives that is almost impossible to control

If they were machine stamped knives, then yes, expect no variance. But people want hand made knives. The rapid rise of Jiro and Mazaki, and now Manaka Hamono all testify to that public demand - higher demand for artisan craftsmanship and to a degree, the small variances that come with it


----------



## friz

@RockyBasel I hear you, but the measurements are not public before the knives are made, so you know what you actually have in the inventory. If there is a knife out of 5 which is 55mm and the other 4 are at 53mm, would you advertise them at 54-55mm? I wouldn't.
WIth that said, Ai&Om will might have the tall ones, as well as probably Mark did.


----------



## RockyBasel

friz said:


> @RockyBasel I hear you, but the measurements are not public before the knives are made, so you know what you actually have in the inventory. If there is a knife out of 5 which is 55mm and the other 4 are at 53mm, would you advertise them at 54-55mm? I wouldn't.
> WIth that said, Ai&Om will might have the tall ones, as well as probably Mark did.


I would give the proper range - but I think they likely measure one and put that on the website

It will be interesting to see where these land when the packages arrive

I would have preferred 55mm too


----------



## JDC

DitmasPork said:


> The 'by-product' at Tosho looked better than the Kaiju to me, cheaper, liked the dimensions more—little interest in fancy wooden box or finger stones.


Somehow they are cheaper than regular blue 1 fm. If you look at the black horn version, it seems the profile is different to the white horn version and the kaiju. Looks like a sanjo profile with lower height.


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> If it were not scarce, I don’t think it would get this much attention and buying intentions on this forum. Also, they are likely to raise prices soon - given the demand and lack of supply (perhaps by design)
> 
> Well known marketing or selling strategy to create perceived lack of supply from Hermès bags to lines outside clubs/retail stores.
> 
> That being said, I think the knife is of higher quality than the much desired “normal” FM blue
> 
> But when I get it this week, I will know for sure



Congrats! They really look like sweet knives IMO.

Yes, I agree that the perceived scarcity feeds the hype. However, price point of Kaiju also an element that has lit the fire of KKFers loins. Excitement often stirred with higher priced knives—a gyuto in limited numbers at $639.42 was just begging for scrutiny and desire. I wanted one, but to slow, choosing to blink while knife was in my cart.

For example, if the Mazaki, blue, dammy didn't have such a lofty price, I doubt is would have garnered so much discussion.


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> Congrats! They really look like sweet knives IMO.
> 
> Yes, I agree that the perceived scarcity feeds the hype. However, price point of Kaiju also an element that has lit the fire of KKFers loins. Excitement often stirred with higher priced knives—a gyuto in limited numbers at $639.42 was just begging for scrutiny and desire. I wanted one, but to slow, choosing to blink while knife was in my cart.
> 
> For example, if the Mazaki, blue, dammy didn't have such a lofty price, I doubt is would have garnered so much discussion.



Agree - Mazaki is a good illustration of the same point

In a way sad the price dominates


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> Agree - Mazaki is a good illustration of the same point
> 
> In a way sad the price dominates



There's a fascinating dichotomy with the psychology of knife pricing.

On the one hand, many here are obsessed with value, i.e. bang-for-buck, comparative shopping that examines like for like knives searching out the best performance, materiality, craftsmanship at any given price point. Typical bang-for-buck champs are Takamura, Mazaki, Wakui, etc.

By contrast, many buyers regularly pay over the odds for authorship, rarity and uniqueness.

For me, a major part of the allure I felt towards Kaiju was a combination of authorship, brand, limited production, awesome packaging. If they were readily available I honestly would just view it as just another good knife to pass up—so scarcity had its pull. Kaiju is something I wanted, but not a knife I need.

Higher prices adds to the specialness of any product—it's a filter to make in not attainable to everyone. Fact. Case in point are Nenox, dyed bone handled knives. An argument can be made that there are less expensive stainless knives to be had made from better steels, with better grinds and performance attributes—but few can deny it's one of the most iconic designs, a chef status symbol, worth every penny to those that can afford it. Specialness is one of the reasons why people pay good money, wait up to a year to commission a custom gyutos that might not perform as well as an off the shelf knife.

If Mazaki came out with a limited run of gyutos in O1 steel for $1k, I'm certain there would be enthusiastic buyers.

That said, I am hoping to land a Kaiju someday.


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> There's a fascinating dichotomy with the psychology of knife pricing.
> 
> On the one hand, many here are obsessed with value, i.e. bang-for-buck, comparative shopping that examines like for like knives searching out the best performance, materiality, craftsmanship at any given price point. Typical bang-for-buck champs are Takamura, Mazaki, Wakui, etc.
> 
> By contrast, many buyers regularly pay over the odds for authorship, rarity and uniqueness.
> 
> For me, a major part of the allure I felt towards Kaiju was a combination of authorship, brand, limited production, awesome packaging. If they were readily available I honestly would just view it as just another good knife to pass up—so scarcity had its pull. Kaiju is something I wanted, but not a knife I need.
> 
> Higher prices adds to the specialness of any product—it's a filter to make in not attainable to everyone. Fact. Case in point are Nenox, dyed bone handled knives. An argument can be made that there are less expensive stainless knives to be had made from better steels, with better grinds and performance attributes—buy few can deny it's one of the most iconic designs, a chef status symbol, worth every penny to those that can afford it. Specialness is one of the reasons why people pay good money, wait up to a year to commission a custom gyutos that might not perform as well as an off the shelf knife.
> 
> If Mazaki came out with a limited run of gyutos in O1 steel for $1k, I'm certain there would be enthusiastic buyers.
> 
> That said, I am hoping to land a Kaiju someday.



Well said!


----------



## mauichef

RockyBasel said:


> I thought Tosho was only selling a blue 1 Kaiju - did they have a blue 2 as well?



Tosho sell only B1. Chef Knives To Go sell only B2. All told there were only 4 released I believe. But Tosho did have thick B1 FM's that lasted a few minutes.


----------



## RockyBasel

mauichef said:


> Tosho sell only B1. Chef Knives To Go sell only B2. All told there were only 4 released I believe. But Tosho did have thick B1 FM's that lasted a few minutes.


4 in total or 4 for Tosho


----------



## juice

DitmasPork said:


> Higher prices adds to the specialness of any product—it's a filter to make in not attainable to everyone.


CM enters the chat


----------



## RockyBasel

juice said:


> CM enters the chat


 CM is never too far from any discussion. Always at the fringe, can pounce in at any given moment. Yes, price makes CM so special by definition


----------



## friz

Does anyone know when Kaiju is hitting Ai&Om website? Please?


----------



## JDC

Follow their Instagram?


----------



## friz

JDC said:


> Follow their Instagram?


I do, I also sent them an email. No reply.


----------



## simar

probably later this week if they are getting them in the mail from Tosho


----------



## zizirex

Ai and Om will be getting it by the end of the month if I remember. Shipping problem I guess.


----------



## simar

for those interested, the youtube video for the Kaiju is up here: Konosuke Kaiju

That okudo stone is amazing


----------



## labor of love

Think I’ll just wait for the hitohiro knock off that drops in 8 months or whenever.


----------



## JDC

Just bought a Kaiju maintenance set from Shinichi:

#15 Uchigumori, Hazuya 43HSD 1,020g JPY55,000
"Wonderful Hazuya. Very useful. You can flatten the surface with diamond plate easily. Perfect Uchigumori stone. All lines never be trouble. "

#8 Shirosuita. In Okudo 66HSD 630g JPY22,000 
"Very fine quality finishing stone. Very fine grain and very hard. You can get very sharp edge. No toxic lines."

But the PROBLEM is, I don't have a Kaiju


----------



## IsoJ

No that is the way to go . Maybe you need a practice knife before Kaiju? You could start with Jiro, just saying


----------



## M1k3

IsoJ said:


> No that is the way to go . Maybe you need a practice knife before Kaiju? You could start with Jiro, just saying


How much practice? I hear Jiro doesn't need the user to change everything about the knife to make it usable to the users liking.


----------



## IsoJ

M1k3 said:


> How much practice? I hear Jiro doesn't need the user to change everything about the knife to make it usable to the users liking.


You are propably right, not too much practise there. Maybe Munetoshi then, straight blade and all but waivy grind


----------



## JDC

M1k3 said:


> How much practice?





IsoJ said:


> Maybe Munetoshi then, straight blade and all but waivy grind



Can I buy some elbow grease instead?


----------



## Corradobrit1

IsoJ said:


> You are propably right, not too much practise there. Maybe Munetoshi then, straight blade and all but waivy grind


I believe Jikko is the thinking mans fixer upper


----------



## M1k3

JDC said:


> Can I buy some elbow grease instead?


How much do you want? The Hinoura, Munetoshi or TF/cheap Tosa size?


----------



## JDC

M1k3 said:


> How much do you want? The Hinoura, Munetoshi or TF/cheap Tosa size?


I'll skip TF for now, it's a knife to be revered instead of being modified, even Morihei has stopped from sharpening it.


----------



## RockyBasel

JDC said:


> I'll skip TF for now, it's a knife to be revered instead of being modified, even Morihei has stopped from sharpening it.


Apologies for my ignorance - what is the link between morihei and TF - have read a few threads where both are mentioned


----------



## JDC

RockyBasel said:


> Apologies for my ignorance - what is the link between morihei and TF - have read a few threads where both are mentioned


I'm not sure if he still carry this line, but he used to sell knives from TF under his own brand, Hisamoto. 
It appears many of these knives were thinned, flattened, and finished on natural stones, but it seems he has stopped doing that.


----------



## zizirex

JDC said:


> I'm not sure if he still carry this line, but he used to sell knives from TF under his own brand, Hisamoto.
> It appears many of these knives were thinned, flattened, and finished on natural stones, but it seems he has stopped doing that.


Last time Hokuto said the price increase drastically that's why he doesn't carry it anymore. I have the fine finish one and it's wonderful, cut super nicely and I don't see any low spot.

the non-fine finish Hisamoto still has better grind than normal TF, less wavy than Mab. Maboroshi from TF and Manaka Hamono, both have Fusili/Rotini grind.


----------



## JDC

zizirex said:


> Last time Hokuto said the price increase drastically that's why he doesn't carry it anymore. I have the fine finish one and it's wonderful, cut super nicely and I don't see any low spot.
> 
> the non-fine finish Hisamoto still has better grind than normal TF, less wavy than Mab. Maboroshi from TF and Manaka Hamono, both have Fusili/Rotini grind.



I can believe that they are super performers, their choil shots look very thin with a slight convexity. Too bad they don’t produce them anymore.


----------



## nwshull

JDC said:


> I can believe that they are super performers, their choil shots look very thin with a slight convexity. Too bad they don’t produce them anymore.


When I was in the Morihei shop back in January they still had them in their display case, just not the fine version.


----------



## josemartinlopez

zizirex said:


> Maboroshi from TF and Manaka Hamono, both have Fusili/Rotini grind.


What grind is this?


----------



## ian

josemartinlopez said:


> What grind is this?



It’s popular with Italian makers. Typically these knives are extruded rather than forged.


----------



## RockyBasel

ian said:


> It’s popular with Italian makers. Typically these knives are extruded rather than forged.


 and they are al-dente!


----------



## Corradobrit1

There is a distinct and worrisome lack of Kaiju pics in this thread. Lets see some patina folks


----------



## Jville

Corradobrit1 said:


> There is a distinct and worrisome lack of Kaiju pics in this thread. Lets see some patina folks


What you hope not to hear: "oh, it's so pretty i don't want to use it."


----------



## jacko9

Jville said:


> What you hope not to hear: "oh, it's so pretty i don't want to use it."


I think there were very few available from that initial batch but, you would think that someone would want to show it off and share the experience with us


----------



## IsoJ

Where is Kaiju? patina here is calling for you, don't worry I won't bite you if you don't want me to. I can be gentle, I can be rough. I'll last all night or I can do it quick like lightning. Don't be shy, come on over, lets get this one started, you know you want it too.


----------



## tminus

ian said:


> It’s popular with Italian makers. Typically these knives are extruded rather than forged.



Though most modern edges lack toothiness when compared to older grinds since the majority of makers moved from bronze to Teflon dies.


----------



## bahamaroot

I don't think I need a $600 Kaiju. The last Fuji FM I bought was over 4mm at the heel, 54mm tall and over 220gm. It's been rumored that it is from a batch of bastard children from Kaiju that didn't make the cut...so to speak.


----------



## Gregmega

bahamaroot said:


> I don't think I need a $600 Kaiju. The last Fuji FM I bought was over 4mm at the heel, 54mm tall and over 220gm. It's been rumored that it is from a batch of bastard children from Kaiju that didn't make the cut...so to speak.


Dang


----------



## Jville

bahamaroot said:


> I don't think I need a $600 Kaiju. The last Fuji FM I bought was over 4mm at the heel, 54mm tall and over 220gm. It's been rumored that it is from a batch of bastard children from Kaiju that didn't make the cut...so to speak.


You don't need one Jeff... I could use one.


----------



## simar

This thread has been missed on the latest pics for sure, there are a few pics from the lucky members in the show your newest knife buy thread


----------



## Corradobrit1

simar said:


> This thread has been missed on the latest pics for sure, there are a few pics from the lucky members in the show your newest knife buy thread


This is where it matters.


----------



## simar

Looks like more Kaiju are going to be out in November 

Hope everyone has got their “Dear Santa ...” letters ready


----------



## LewRob80

Corradobrit1 said:


> There is a distinct and worrisome lack of Kaiju pics in this thread. Lets see some patina folks


----------



## LewRob80

Only used it a few days at work, Ottawa’s newest restaurant restrictions have really killed how much work there is to do every day


----------



## Corradobrit1

Looks promising. Nice measured reactivity without being too reactive.


----------



## LewRob80

Corradobrit1 said:


> Looks promising. Nice measured reactivity without being too reactive.


Way better lighting at work. So far I’d say nice reactivity. Nothing too crazy and building a solid patina especially on the cladding. The way the polishing is done, the cladding line seems to stay free of patina, causing more distinction


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

It's been a while guys. I wonder if we have more feedbacks from the lucky owners. How it cuts compared to regular FM or other knives?


----------



## LewRob80

Been using mine on and off in pro kitchen, honestly better overall performance to my two other Fujiyama. Edge retention is great even on the plastic boards, touching up on 1k and naturals is a dream with HT. Very happy


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

OMG you made me want it even much badly. It will show up in my dream tonight.

Just curious what steel is your kaiju's and other Fujiyamas'?


----------



## JDC

It seems Tosho Knife Arts released two Kaijus recently, missed both if so...


----------



## Mikeadunne

JDC said:


> It seems Tosho Knife Arts released two Kaijus recently, missed both if so...


*** they did??


----------



## LewRob80

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> OMG you made me want it even much badly. It will show up in my dream tonight.
> 
> Just curious what steel is your kaiju's and other Fujiyamas'?



My Kaiju is blue #1 and my 2 Fujiyama are also blue 1


----------



## JDC

Mikeadunne said:


> *** they did??



Kaijus reappeared in the "new" page twice, that's all I know


----------



## Corradobrit1

JDC said:


> Kaijus reappeared in the "new" page twice, that's all I know


I doubt it. If they did get more stock recently their email notification system is broken.....


----------



## JDC

Corradobrit1 said:


> I doubt it. If they did get more stock recently their email notification system is broken.....


I’m not so certain either, my kaiju fund has gone into other knives and headphones anyway...


----------



## Mikeadunne

Corradobrit1 said:


> I doubt it. If they did get more stock recently their email notification system is broken.....


I mean I know I don't stand a chance anyways on these stupid releases but damn, I would like the email first. Just a head's up - gonna take another L


----------



## friz

JDC said:


> It seems Tosho Knife Arts released two Kaijus recently, missed both if so...


the saying goes like : "Don't speak because you have a mouth".


----------



## JDC

friz said:


> the saying goes like : "Don't speak because you have a mouth".


Well said and note taken


----------



## Alwayzbakin

Such a cool cladding line


----------



## LewRob80




----------



## Knivperson

How is the performance better compared to Fujiyama FM 240 mm (white or blue)?


----------



## LewRob80

Knivperson said:


> How is the performance better compared to Fujiyama FM 240 mm (white or blue)?


Overall performance advantage is based on difference and depends what you’re doing. Kaiju is a lot heavier than my Fuji’s, giving a different feel. For onions, potatoes and general cutting the difference in grind and weight lends to better food release and ease of cutting. I prefer the tips of the Fuji’s for more detailed work such as shallots, but in general Miss the Kaiju is just a dream to cut with


----------



## RockyBasel

I just got the FM blue 2 270 mm and before that I got the Blue 1 FM (baby Kaiju) from Tosho. These knives are incredible performers, at less than $430-$495 per knife, depending upon the size and handle

Both of these knives are incredible cutters, the Tosho “thicker” version - WH type, is outstanding 

I think the FM’s are a flatter profile, though I have not done a side by side comparison with Kaiju

I believe the Kaiju is a step above in fit and finish and slightly above in cutting ability -‘the knife is astoundingly good in performance at a home kitchen

It is not a laser

But there is something called soul, and I would say, that you may find in a Kato or Toyama or Shig or TF, etc. Hard to describe, and this is subjective may vary from person to person - but some knives communicate more “soul” but maybe that is BS and maybe not

But technically, Kaiju is hard to beat


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> But there is something called soul, and I would say, that you may find in a Kato or Toyama or Shig or TF, etc. Hard to describe, and this is subjective may vary from person to person - but some knives communicate more “soul” but maybe that is BS and maybe not


This is a thing.


----------



## Mikeadunne

I'll take that soulless knife off your hands anytime rock


----------



## Knivperson

RockyBasel said:


> I just got the FM blue 2 270 mm and before that I got the Blue 1 FM (baby Kaiju) from Tosho. These knives are incredible performers, at less than $430-$495 per knife, depending upon the size and handle
> 
> Both of these knives are incredible cutters, the Tosho “thicker” version - WH type, is outstanding
> 
> I think the FM’s are a flatter profile, though I have not done a side by side comparison with Kaiju
> 
> I believe the Kaiju is a step above in fit and finish and slightly above in cutting ability -‘the knife is astoundingly good in performance at a home kitchen
> 
> It is not a laser
> 
> But there is something called soul, and I would say, that you may find in a Kato or Toyama or Shig or TF, etc. Hard to describe, and this is subjective may vary from person to person - but some knives communicate more “soul” but maybe that is BS and maybe not
> 
> But technically, Kaiju is hard to beat


Ill take a soulless performer anytime haha. Maybe you're right, haven't tried those knives yet. But I really like kono.


----------



## simar

JDC said:


> I’m not so certain either, my kaiju fund has gone into other knives and headphones anyway...


what cans did you get?


----------



## JDC

simar said:


> what cans did you get?


A pair of Grado rs1e as my vocal and guitar cans


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

The 270 FM blue 2 I got yesterday is thicker on the spine than my 240 white 1 and it performs really well. I feel like the food release is also a little better. I made this video in compared to a 210 denka. TBH the denka is already better than how it was out of the box. The soullness I'll have to find out. : p


----------



## JDC

The 0-2mm behind the edge is very sensitive, I think the FM is thinner and flatter then the denka in that region.


----------



## Knivperson

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> The 270 FM blue 2 I got yesterday is thicker on the spine than my 240 white 1 and it performs really well. I feel like the food release is also a little better. I made this video in compared to a 210 denka. TBH the denka is already better than how it was out of the box. The soullness I'll have to find out. : p



Looks like the kono clearly outperformes the TF to me. And, btw.... Is that a carrot!!


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Knivperson said:


> And, btw.... Is that a carrot!!


I like to test cut with carrots that are at least 5 cm tall as those can tell a lot about geometry (cutting ability and food release). Sweet potatoes in similar size could also be telling but they are expensive. I found potatoes, small carrots, and small sweet potatoes too easy, and big sweet potatoes too difficult.


----------



## RockyBasel

Mikeadunne said:


> I'll take that soulless knife off your hands anytime rock


Ok I will sell it to you at list price- since it’s soulless









NOT!!!!!!


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

JDC said:


> The 0-2mm behind the edge is very sensitive, I think the FM is thinner and flatter then the denka in that region.


I measured the thinness of the blade at 1 cm above the edge. The FM is 0.8-0.9 mm while the denka was ~1.5 mm ootb. The denka in the video is 1.4 mm after an hour on the stone and I'm working toward 1.2 mm which is about the thinness of Wat and Kato WH at that point.


----------



## Knivperson

RockyBasel said:


> Ok I will sell it to you at list price- since it’s soulless
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NOT!!!!!!


Jesus, my pulse just went up to 180 bpm... Until I read the last part. 8D


----------



## Knivperson

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I like to test cut with carrots that are at least 5 cm tall as those can tell a lot about geometry (cutting ability and food release). Sweet potatoes in similar size could also be telling but they are expensive. I found potatoes, small carrots, and small sweet potatoes too easy, and big sweet potatoes too difficult.


I've never seen that big a carrot in Denmark...! Home grown?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Knivperson said:


> I've never seen that big a carrot in Denmark...! Home grown?


Thats what sea said


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Knivperson said:


> I've never seen that big a carrot in Denmark...! Home grown?


I can only find it in Asian grocery. I guess it’s the way we eat carrots. Bigger carrots make bigger cuboid so it’s easier to slice and julienne.


----------



## tchan001

@RockyBasel 
Ok, I'll trade you my soulful JJT for your Kaiju.








NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Barry's Knives

RockyBasel said:


> I just got the FM blue 2 270 mm and before that I got the Blue 1 FM (baby Kaiju) from Tosho. These knives are incredible performers, at less than $430-$495 per knife, depending upon the size and handle
> 
> Both of these knives are incredible cutters, the Tosho “thicker” version - WH type, is outstanding
> 
> I think the FM’s are a flatter profile, though I have not done a side by side comparison with Kaiju
> 
> I believe the Kaiju is a step above in fit and finish and slightly above in cutting ability -‘the knife is astoundingly good in performance at a home kitchen
> 
> It is not a laser
> 
> But there is something called soul, and I would say, that you may find in a Kato or Toyama or Shig or TF, etc. Hard to describe, and this is subjective may vary from person to person - but some knives communicate more “soul” but maybe that is BS and maybe not
> 
> But technically, Kaiju is hard to beat


How to you compare the blue 1 and 2


----------



## Pauldoduy

RockyBasel said:


> I just got the FM blue 2 270 mm and before that I got the Blue 1 FM (baby Kaiju) from Tosho. These knives are incredible performers, at less than $430-$495 per knife, depending upon the size and handle
> 
> Both of these knives are incredible cutters, the Tosho “thicker” version - WH type, is outstanding
> 
> I think the FM’s are a flatter profile, though I have not done a side by side comparison with Kaiju
> 
> I believe the Kaiju is a step above in fit and finish and slightly above in cutting ability -‘the knife is astoundingly good in performance at a home kitchen
> 
> It is not a laser
> 
> But there is something called soul, and I would say, that you may find in a Kato or Toyama or Shig or TF, etc. Hard to describe, and this is subjective may vary from person to person - but some knives communicate more “soul” but maybe that is BS and maybe not
> 
> But technically, Kaiju is hard to beat


Hope to get Konosuke Kaiju soon! I love it! ^___^


----------



## jacko9

The Kaiju keeps getting delayed and I suspect that Konosuke is overloaded with other work and I think that the Kaiju is just too time consuming to produce. Last I heard they might ship early Feb.


----------



## tcmx3

jacko9 said:


> The Kaiju keeps getting delayed and I suspect that Konosuke is overloaded with other work and I think that the Kaiju is just too time consuming to produce. Last I heard they might ship early Feb.



a shame.

it would be nice if they could/would just make enough for everyone who wants to buy one at retail to be able to do so. I have the money for one set aside already.


----------



## jacko9

tcmx3 said:


> a shame.
> 
> it would be nice if they could/would just make enough for everyone who wants to buy one at retail to be able to do so. I have the money for one set aside already.


To the best of my knowledge they only have one person doing the final hand sharpening of the Kaiju blade and he spends up to 8 hours on each blade. This is on top of other sharpening duties he has for their other lines of knives. Konosuke is not a large factory operation and the demand is pretty high considering how quickly they sell out when available.


----------



## Knivperson

What would be most similar to kaiju if you cant get the real deal?


----------



## jacko9

Knivperson said:


> What would be most similar to kaiju if you cant get the real deal?


Konosuke Fujiyama FM


----------



## friz

jacko9 said:


> Konosuke Fujiyama FM


In my opinion, would be ideal to have a Kono FM that didn't make the cut in height but not in thickness.
A 4mm thick blue#2, 52/53mm height is perfect.


----------



## RockyBasel

Barry's Knives said:


> How to you compare the blue 1 and 2


Too close to call - my blur 1 FM is the thicker version - or baby Kaiju 

They are incredible performers in their own right - but the Kaiju blows them away


----------



## marc4pt0

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> The 270 FM blue 2 I got yesterday is thicker on the spine than my 240 white 1 and it performs really well. I feel like the food release is also a little better. I made this video in compared to a 210 denka. TBH the denka is already better than how it was out of the box. The soullness I'll have to find out. : p




I just saw this video. Comparing a Fujiyama to a TF is neat, but it's like comparing a VW Beetle to a Porsche (insert your flavor) . Entertaining concept, but the Porsche will obviously win every time. Unless you start to heavily modify the Beetle, which seems to be the theme/need for TF gyutos. 

I don't have the Kaiju version, but I do have the more robust FM that came out a couple months prior to the Kaiju intro. Basically the same specs as far as weight and size goes. Very cool knife. And definitely the long awaited (more robust) Fujiyama. Like most knives these days in this price level, it flies through foods. However this FM does so with more ease and finesse, which I suspect is partly due to the extra weight. What I did notice in my minimal time using it at work was that foods loved clinging to the taller blade face. They would typically come off with a flick of the wrist, but there were several times I had to force the stuck foods w/ my other paw. This was surprising to me given my experience with several other Fujiyamas. In fact it was a first for me in this line. I'll say this again though, I only used the knife for a minimal amount of time. Maybe a total of 30 or so minutes. Perhaps I need to use it more, build up a little patina before seeing better results? Once restaurants in the city are allowed to re-open I'll give it some more use. But as of now I may not be sold on it. Awesome cutting power, feels like sugar tits in hand, very substantial at 55mm tall and 224g in weight. But maybe a little _too _food clingy.

My point is I'm wondering if the Kaiju is the same way, food clingy. With the extra polished finish this could go either way, but I'm thinking that it may very well be.


----------



## Knivperson

marc4pt0 said:


> I just saw this video. Comparing a Fujiyama to a TF is neat, but it's like comparing a VW Beetle to a Porsche (insert your flavor) . Entertaining concept, but the Porsche will obviously win every time. Unless you start to heavily modify the Beetle, which seems to be the theme/need for TF gyutos.
> 
> I don't have the Kaiju version, but I do have the more robust FM that came out a couple months prior to the Kaiju intro. Basically the same specs as far as weight and size goes. Very cool knife. And definitely the long awaited (more robust) Fujiyama. Like most knives these days in this price level, it flies through foods. However this FM does so with more ease and finesse, which I suspect is partly due to the extra weight. What I did notice in my minimal time using it at work was that foods loved clinging to the taller blade face. They would typically come off with a flick of the wrist, but there were several times I had to force the stuck foods w/ my other paw. This was surprising to me given my experience with several other Fujiyamas. In fact it was a first for me in this line. I'll say this again though, I only used the knife for a minimal amount of time. Maybe a total of 30 or so minutes. Perhaps I need to use it more, build up a little patina before seeing better results? Once restaurants in the city are allowed to re-open I'll give it some more use. But as of now I may not be sold on it. Awesome cutting power, feels like sugar tits in hand, very substantial at 55mm tall and 224g in weight. But maybe a little _too _food clingy.
> 
> My point is I'm wondering if the Kaiju is the same way, food clingy. With the extra polished finish this could go either way, but I'm thinking that it may very well be.


Except the beetle is much more expensive than the porsche in this example (TF 240 is almost twice as much as a FM 240, right?)


----------



## marc4pt0

RockyBasel said:


> But there is something called soul, and I would say, that you may find in a Kato or Toyama or Shig or TF, etc. Hard to describe, and this is subjective may vary from person to person - but some knives communicate more “soul” but maybe that is BS and maybe not



I think there is a certain, almost tangible, "soul" to each knife. Maybe soul might be the wrong word, but at this moment I can't think of one better.
I do believe that this _soul_ is highly biased at times though. It could be influenced on the known/perceived rarity of a knife, as well as the known/perceived value of it. The self-issued vision of an elder bladesmith hunched over a century old forge using century old techniques to create this heavy, rustic blade may play a bit here as well.
Also its current popularity status can help influence this feeling of soul.

For the more robust Konosuke, after reading your comment above, I recalled feeling something similar. So I had to grab it and hold it again to understand. And I do partially agree. It doesn't feel soulless, which I don't believe you were implying, but it does feel cool (_not _cold). Not so much the warm feeling of an old kindred soul, but more so of a younger, more calculated soul. Instead of a more rustic kitchen tool passed down through the generations it has a more precise doctor scalpel like feel/vibe. This is not a bad thing by any means.


----------



## RockyBasel

marc4pt0 said:


> I think there is a certain, almost tangible, "soul" to each knife. Maybe soul might be the wrong word, but at this moment I can't think of one better.
> I do believe that this _soul_ is highly biased at times though. It could be influenced on the known/perceived rarity of a knife, as well as the known/perceived value of it. The self-issued vision of an elder bladesmith hunched over a century old forge using century old techniques to create this heavy, rustic blade play a bit here asd well.
> Also its current popularity status can help influence this feeling of soul.
> 
> For the more robust Konosuke, after reading your comment above, I recalled feeling something similar. So I had to grab it and hold it again to understand. And I do partially agree. It doesn't feel soulless, which I don't believe you were implying, but it does feel cool (_not _cold). Not so much the warm feeling of an old kindred soul, but more so of a younger, more calculated soul. Instead of a more rustic kitchen tool passed down through the generations it has a more precise doctor scalpel like feel/vibe. This is not a bad thing by any means.


Eloquently stated and spot on!


----------



## marc4pt0

Knivperson said:


> Except the beetle is much more expensive than the porsche in this example (TF 240 is almost twice as much as a FM 240, right?)



Only because of the current popularity status it holds. These were pretty darn cheap before all the hype, if I recall correctly. 
Are the 240's hitting the $900 mark these days? That's a lot of cheddar for a knife that still needs lots of work in order to cut decent


----------



## Knivperson

marc4pt0 said:


> Only because of the current popularity status it holds. These were pretty darn cheap before all the hype, if I recall correctly.
> Are the 240's hitting the $900 mark these days? That's a lot of cheddar for a knife that still needs lots of work in order to cut decent


1119 usd on epic edge, and FM is 435 on cktg



Epicurean Edge: Japanese and European professional chefs knives


----------



## Corradobrit1

After all these years I still can't fathom why there is such a huge up-charge going from 210 to 240. The value buyer will look at TF Nashiji/Mab/Denka 210's (which seem to be be oversized these days anyway) or a Morihei Hisamoto (Mab) 240, esp with the Fine Finish.


----------



## nwshull

Corradobrit1 said:


> After all these years I still can't fathom why there is such a huge up-charge going from 210 to 240. The value buyer will look at TF Nashiji/Mab/Denka 210's (which seem to be be oversized these days anyway) or a Morihei Hisamoto (Mab) 240, esp with the Fine Finish.


I mean the 240 upcharge is probably because you can. Candidly, I don't overly blame them, they produce in Tokyo, so I don't think land/ cost of living is cheap and any Japanese hand made knife takes some babying. Why have they gone up? Honestly, I'm shocked the Kaiju is so cheap based on how hard it seems to make. I like my Nashiji (yes I've probably put in just as much to mod it as I did to buy it at this point), but I think right now for what they are they'd be hitting their limit for me. That said, I think if we're really honest and look at the kind of work a lot of Japanese knife makers do, versus the output they have, a lot of us would ask for more money too.


----------



## Iggy

marc4pt0 said:


> ...That's a lot of cheddar for a knife that still needs lots of work in order to cut decent



You cannot say that... they all cut differently 

(btw... I have two Denkas... love mine... but both selected in Tokyo out of a huge load of blades...)


----------



## marc4pt0

Iggy said:


> You cannot say that... they all cut differently
> 
> (btw... I have two Denkas... love mine... but both selected in Tokyo out of a huge load of blades...)



They all cut differently as in you have no idea if they cut well or not because the majority don't? Sorry, I'm not trying to sound argumentative or offensive. 
Just that about all I have seen or heard on the TF knives (all variants) have been they either must be "hand selected", or require a lot of work/modifications in order to get them to the level of performance that is expected and paid for. I don't get the appeal in this. ESPECIALLY given the crazy pricing. I have seen pics of some modified TF gyutos, wearing nice new Wooden handles instead of the cheap paka wood, nice new polish post steel removal/thinning, that look pretty attractive. Not $1k attractive. But that, and all the above stated, is just my opinion.

In my opinion, OOTB the Kaiju (along with all Fujiyama gyutos) packs way more performance than any TF. And that would go for F&F as well. Again just my experience and opinion.


----------



## jacko9

marc4pt0 said:


> They all cut differently as in you have no idea if they cut well or not because the majority don't? Sorry, I'm trying to sound argumentative or offensive.
> Just about all I have seen or heard on the TF knives (all variants) have been they either must be "hand selected", or require a lot of work/modifications in order to get them to the level of performance that is expected and paid for. I don't get the appeal in this. ESPECIALLY given the crazy pricing. I have seen pics of some modified TF gyutos, wearing nice new Wooden handles instead of the cheap paka wood, nice new polish post steel removal/thinning, that look pretty attractive. Not $1k attractive. But that, and all the above stated, is just my opinion.
> 
> In my opinion, OOTB the Kaiju (along with all Fujiyama gyutos) packs way more performance than any TF. And that would go for F&F as well. Again just my experience and opinion.



I'am just a home cook and not at all an expert on knives and sharpening, etc but I second your opinion given my two T-F's and three Konosuke Fujiyama's. I'm sure that a lot of folks can judge by eye or feel how to select a good or great knife but, I just order and get what they send me and for my knives the cutting ability, fit and finish and price the Fuji's are a clear winner.


----------



## daddy yo yo

marc4pt0 said:


> They all cut differently as in you have no idea if they cut well or not because the majority don't? Sorry, I'm trying to sound argumentative or offensive.
> Just about all I have seen or heard on the TF knives (all variants) have been they either must be "hand selected", or require a lot of work/modifications in order to get them to the level of performance that is expected and paid for. I don't get the appeal in this. ESPECIALLY given the crazy pricing. I have seen pics of some modified TF gyutos, wearing nice new Wooden handles instead of the cheap paka wood, nice new polish post steel removal/thinning, that look pretty attractive. Not $1k attractive. But that, and all the above stated, is just my opinion.
> 
> In my opinion, OOTB the Kaiju (along with all Fujiyama gyutos) packs way more performance than any TF. And that would go for F&F as well. Again just my experience and opinion.


Amen, brother!!! Well said!!!


----------



## simar

The TF mafia are going be offended 


marc4pt0 said:


> They all cut differently as in you have no idea if they cut well or not because the majority don't? Sorry, I'm trying to sound argumentative or offensive.
> Just about all I have seen or heard on the TF knives (all variants) have been they either must be "hand selected", or require a lot of work/modifications in order to get them to the level of performance that is expected and paid for. I don't get the appeal in this. ESPECIALLY given the crazy pricing. I have seen pics of some modified TF gyutos, wearing nice new Wooden handles instead of the cheap paka wood, nice new polish post steel removal/thinning, that look pretty attractive. Not $1k attractive. But that, and all the above stated, is just my opinion.
> 
> In my opinion, OOTB the Kaiju (along with all Fujiyama gyutos) packs way more performance than any TF. And that would go for F&F as well. Again just my experience and opinion.


----------



## Iggy

marc4pt0 said:


> They all cut differently as in you have no idea if they cut well or not because the majority don't? Sorry, I'm not trying to sound argumentative or offensive.
> Just that about all I have seen or heard on the TF knives (all variants) have been they either must be "hand selected", or require a lot of work/modifications in order to get them to the level of performance that is expected and paid for....



Totally agree on the "they have to be hand selected". Everything else is a gamble. All I said was that the variation is really high. But if you select a nice one, it outperforms more or less any other (not only japanese, expensive US and EU custom makers as well...) knife from every important maker I tried which have been a lot.. Only met a hand full of knives over the years, that can keep up with the performance of my 2 denkas (Kono Fujiyamas included, which I by the way really like!). Which are by the way totally different (one more a big workhorse, one a delicate laser... speaks for itself regarding the variation...)

F&F is bad, yes. Pricing in the context of the quality issues is bad, yes. I would never recommend one to a friend (and never order one online). But performancewise, they do have quite a lot of potential like my two denkas show me regarding ease of cutting and edge retention.

But you're missing the point. I wasn't about to say "you cannot say that because all TF are great", I said "you cannot say that because they are all different"... which is a bad thing, yes....


Iggy


----------



## simar

Some how this is sounding analogous to the broken clock, if you hand pick your TF you may get something that is capable but the F&F leaves a lot to be desired for what you pay for them.


----------



## Corradobrit1

marc4pt0 said:


> Only because of the current popularity status it holds. These were pretty darn cheap before all the hype, if I recall correctly.
> Are the 240's hitting the $900 mark these days? That's a lot of cheddar for a knife that still needs lots of work in order to cut decent


The 240 has never been 'cheap'. Even several years ago the Denka 240 was around $650 direct.


----------



## jacko9

I am helping one of the gym instructors buy a first quality knife as she settles into family life and she likes to cook a lot. I offered to loan her a T-F and a Watanabe Stainless clad Gyuto to help her and her husband decide what to buy. I sent her the carrot video and it was readily apparent to her what knife cuts more cleanly. Unfortunately those two knives might be out of their budget with a new baby but, it lets her see what good knives can do.


----------



## jacko9

T-F has really raised his prices a lot since I purchased my Gyuto just about doubled in cost in I think 5 years. He is offering the Ebony handle again so I was able to make a direct comparison.


----------



## ragz

If FnF is important to you, there's probably no way to justify a TF. At home, where I keep my knives immaculate, where I can enjoy looking at them, enjoy using them, I absolutely get it. But if you want to get _work _done, a rounded coil does nothing for the massive callus on my hand from using a knife all day. Any sort of polishing work gets nuked within a week. All the little QoL touches and niceties amount to very little. I have plenty of expensive, beautiful knives, but when I show up to work I bring my 210 and 240 denka. The premium paid for raw performance is worth it for me.


----------



## Filipe Lazzuri

And have a lot difference between kono fm blue and hitohira Tanaka blue 1 kasumi?


----------



## marc4pt0

@ragz All my knives get used at work. There were 2 that, up until recently, were not used. A JKI Kagekiyo B1, which was so dang sexy I just left it at home to admire. It’s since sold now. The other was my newer FM, but it’s now used. It’s really hard for me not to use a knife. If it’s not getting used it doesn't stick around too long. But fancy or not, they’re built to be used. Functional art. If I’m not bringing them to work for use, I Feel guilty. A sense of betrayal to the time and effort that went into building the knife.
As for F&F, like rounded spine and choil, these touches go a long way for me. Gone are the days of having a sh*@ty rough choil chewing away at my fingers. As are the days of flat sharp spines. Life is too short and too sweet to suffer the small things like these. It only takes minutes to ease the choil and spine. Minutes vs the amount of time using the knife, it’s more than well worth it.

Of the Thirty plus years in the kitchen, 20 plus were using crap knives with crap f&f. My callouses were growing their own individual personalities, and were the equivalent to forgotten coworkers, girlfriends and one night stands. Now they, like the ex’s, are long gone. Part of the reason for my almost baby smooth hands (by comparison) I attribute to better f&f, another to better skill level. But most likely the largest reason is that I doubt I’m spending as much time chopping and prepping as you are these days. And I kind of miss it.

As for polishing, yeah, nuked within a weak, if not a day, for sure. I wish I was better at the polishing thing, but I’m not. It’s a lot of work for me, just to see it get pissed away through use. I still do it though on my Halcyon Knives, because they are just too cool.

But I get why you would take a TF to work. It really couldn’t get much _worse _than it already is. Kind of kidding there, but kind of not.


----------



## daddy yo yo

marc4pt0 said:


> @ragz
> But I get why you would take a TF to work. It really couldn’t get much _worse _than it already is. Kind of kidding there (...)


No, you’re not!!!


----------



## Knivperson

marc4pt0 said:


> @ragz All my knives get used at work. There were 2 that, up until recently, were not used. A JKI Kagekiyo B1, which was so dang sexy I just left it at home to admire. It’s since sold now. The other was my newer FM, but it’s now used. It’s really hard for me not to use a knife. If it’s not getting used it doesn't stick around too long. But fancy or not, they’re built to be used. Functional art. If I’m not bringing them to work for use, I Feel guilty. A sense of betrayal to the time and effort that went into building the knife.
> As for F&F, like rounded spine and choil, these touches go a long way for me. Gone are the days of having a sh*@ty rough choil chewing away at my fingers. As are the days of flat sharp spines. Life is too short and too sweet to suffer the small things like these. It only takes minutes to ease the choil and spine. Minutes vs the amount of time using the knife, it’s more than well worth it.
> 
> Of the Thirty plus years in the kitchen, 20 plus were using crap knives with crap f&f. My callouses were growing their own individual personalities, and were the equivalent to forgotten coworkers, girlfriends and one night stands. Now they, like the ex’s, are long gone. Part of the reason for my almost baby smooth hands (by comparison) I attribute to better f&f, another to better skill level. But most likely the largest reason is that I doubt I’m spending as much time chopping and prepping as you are these days. And I kind of miss it.
> 
> As for polishing, yeah, nuked within a weak, if not a day, for sure. I wish I was better at the polishing thing, but I’m not. It’s a lot of work for me, just to see it get pissed away through use. I still do it though on my Halcyon Knives, because they are just too cool.
> 
> But I get why you would take a TF to work. It really couldn’t get much _worse _than it already is. Kind of kidding there, but kind of not.


Truth!!!


----------



## Barmoley

Since every thread sooner or later turns into TF thread, bashing or otherwise, I'd like to put my 2 cents worth. I've complained about TFs plenty myself and in general agree that prices are high given fit and finish, questionable QC and all the usual complaints. The jump from 210 to 240 in price is ridiculous, etc, etc. Since then I've tried a few good ones and they are really good. I liked the one I had so much that I paid for a nice handle for it, not because original one was bad, but just because I decided to keep it and figured why not see what can be done with a western handle. The original handle wasn't pretty and had some usual filled gaps between it and metal bolster, but functionally it was perfectly fine. In any case, I understand the sentiment of those that say that a knife at this price should be more consistent and better finished, but having used a few good ones I also understand the fans.

Prices are tricky, I don't get pricing on many knives, but if they sell then someone is paying these prices. Same with TF. The performance is there, is it worth trying to get a good one or paying a lot for a project is hard to say, but at least we always have TF to discuss in every thread, that alone has to be worth something.


----------



## marc4pt0

I'd love to try a "good one", for sure. Always open minded. If someone wants to throw one my way, I'd give it a fair shake.

And on that note, if anybody wants to send me a 240 Kaiju so I can compare contrast against its equivalent in FM form, I'd be _super _pumped to try it.


----------



## daddy yo yo

Barmoley said:


> Since every thread sooner or later turns into TF thread, bashing or otherwise, I'd like to put my 2 cents worth. I've complained about TFs plenty myself and in general agree that prices are high given fit and finish, questionable QC and all the usual complaints. The jump from 210 to 240 in price is ridiculous, etc, etc. Since then I've tried a few good ones and they are really good. I liked the one I had so much that I paid for a nice handle for it, not because original one was bad, but just because I decided to keep it and figured why not see what can be done with a western handle. The original handle wasn't pretty and had some usual filled gaps between it and metal bolster, but functionally it was perfectly fine. In any case, I understand the sentiment of those that say that a knife at this price should be more consistent and better finished, but having used a few good ones I also understand the fans.
> 
> Prices are tricky, I don't get pricing on many knives, but if they sell then someone is paying these prices. Same with TF. The performance is there, is it worth trying to get a good one or paying a lot for a project is hard to say, but at least we always have TF to discuss in every thread, that alone has to be worth something.


Would you show us the one you had rehandled?


----------



## ragz

marc4pt0 said:


> @ragz
> 
> But I get why you would take a TF to work. It really couldn’t get much _worse _than it already is. Kind of kidding there, but kind of not.



Haha, yes there definately is some truth in that. I understand your point though. I'm not yet anywhere near thirty years in a kitchen. I'm still a bit more tolerant of beating myself up a bit. Been getting better at it though for the sake of my overall health-- I do want to be cooking in 15 years after all.


----------



## Barmoley

daddy yo yo said:


> Would you show us the one you had rehandled?


Sure, apologies for the derail. Two caveats, the knife is not in the original state anymore, choil, spine have been eased. It takes little time, but you could argue that knife in this price range should come with these eased already. 2. I tried to show the blade road, but not easy. I can't see or feel major issues, there could be some minor ones, but I can't detect them. I bet my other knives have them too, I've just never paid attention enough on other knives, but this being TF, I looked more closely than usual. No issues while cutting. Of course, the handle and everything around it have been modified.


----------



## marc4pt0

THAT handle on a kaiju or FM? F yeah. That would be a Complete Package grand slam. The meaning of FM would have to change to F**k Me


----------



## jacko9

Barmoley said:


> Sure, apologies for the derail. Two caveats, the knife is not in the original state anymore, choil, spine have been eased. It takes little time, but you could argue that knife in this price range should come with these eased already. 2. I tried to show the blade road, but not easy. I can't see or feel major issues, there could be some minor ones, but I can't detect them. I bet my other knives have them too, I've just never paid attention enough on other knives, but this being TF, I looked more closely than usual. No issues while cutting. Of course, the handle and everything around it have been modified.
> 
> View attachment 110353
> View attachment 110355
> View attachment 110356
> View attachment 110357
> 
> View attachment 110354
> 
> View attachment 110358


Great looking knife and that handle is awesome.


----------



## Mikeadunne

all threads really do devolve into TF banter, lol unreal


----------



## Corradobrit1

Mikeadunne said:


> all threads really do *evolve* into TF banter, lol unreal


FIFY


----------



## tcmx3

Corradobrit1 said:


> FIFY



carcinisation, except for TF?


----------



## jacko9

It looks that way but the carrot cutting video comparison was quite convincing that the Konosuke Fujiyama more than holds it's own.


----------



## tcmx3

jacko9 said:


> It looks that way but the carrot cutting video comparison was quite convincing that the Konosuke Fujiyama more than holds it's own.



there's a lot of reasons to prefer the Kaiju.

besides lots of knives are good cutters after 10 hours of working on their bevels.


----------



## mmiinngg

Ready? Set? Engage !


----------



## jacko9

Second batch will be released very soon.


----------



## Bodine

I would like one, but I have a better chance of surviving jumping over Niagara Falls


----------



## RockyBasel

I thought the same, but odds be damned, I got it in blue 1

I think PayPal was key


----------



## LewRob80

Constant refreshing and if buying through Tosho, make sure to have shoppay (Shopify) set up. That way it preloads all your info, you just hit buy


----------



## Knivperson

This stresses me the **** out. 10 knives and like... 10.000 customers


----------



## Mikeadunne

Knivperson said:


> This stresses me the **** out. 10 knives and like... 10.000 customers


Ditto


----------



## nwshull

Knivperson said:


> This stresses me the **** out. 10 knives and like... 10.000 customers


More like a few hundred or so super addicts.


----------



## Knivperson

nwshull said:


> More like a few hundred or so super addicts.


Who just quits their jobs and sit and press refresh all day. Jesus man. Im gonna get isasmedjan to make me a knife instead I think.


----------



## labor of love

Knivperson said:


> Who just quits their jobs and sit and press refresh all day. Jesus man. Im gonna get isasmedjan to make me a knife instead I think.


You won’t regret it!


----------



## jacko9

Tosho has had a few live Instagram interviews with Kosuke and Ivan where they discuss the ideas and challenges behind making the Kaiju - it was worth watching!


----------



## juice

Knivperson said:


> Im gonna get isasmedjan to make me a knife instead I think.


Seems like a vastly better solution, TBH.


----------



## friz

Okay.


----------



## jacko9

RockyBasel said:


> I thought the same, but odds be damned, I got it in blue 1
> 
> I think PayPal was key


Have you used the Kaiju yet? What do you think about it? My first Konosuke Fujiyama in Blue #2 patina'ed like crazy at first then I waxed it with Renaissance Wax once and it just leveled out at that point, how does the Kaiju patina?


----------



## LewRob80

jacko9 said:


> Have you used the Kaiju yet? What do you think about it? My first Konosuke Fujiyama in Blue #2 patina'ed like crazy at first then I waxed it with Renaissance Wax once and it just leveled out at that point, how does the Kaiju patina?


I’ve used mine (blue 1) in a pro kitchen off and on (light days when it’s mostly just me around). Patina set up quick and very well, solid and colourful.


----------



## nyc

Knivperson said:


> This stresses me the **** out. 10 knives and like... 10.000 customers



Feels like a Hitohira-Jiro type marketing but without the numbering.


----------



## Knivperson

LewRob80 said:


> I’ve used mine (blue 1) in a pro kitchen off and on (light days when it’s mostly just me around). Patina set up quick and very well, solid and colourful. View attachment 115964


What the weight with the handle?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Knivperson said:


> What the weight with the handle?


Spec is about 53mm ~225g


----------



## ModRQC

Knivperson said:


> What the weight with the handle?





Corradobrit1 said:


> Spec is about 53mm



Figures!  Take 5 to sip through your first coffee man, no rush. I expect you to astonish me with insight as usual.


----------



## Corradobrit1

ModRQC said:


> Figures!  Take 5 to sip through your first coffee man, no rush. I expect you to astonish me with insight as usual.


Been a long week and one too many single malts. I'll get me coat....


----------



## Knivperson

Corradobrit1 said:


> Spec is about 53mm ~225g


It isnt that heavy for a workhorse 240 is it? What are other workhorses in 240mm?


----------



## ModRQC

Well it's not light for a 240mm edge neither. North of that you're switching to Yo handle basically, unless looking into hardcore Sanjo or rarities that will weight 200-250g with a basic Ho. And still an ebony handle would drive such weight only 30-50 grams upward. Since the Kaiju grind is going quite thin, 225g feels like Yoshikane beefier ballpark with a righteous handle and blade height. I wouldn't look down on one.


----------



## LewRob80

Knivperson said:


> What the weight with the handle?


----------



## RockyBasel

jacko9 said:


> Have you used the Kaiju yet? What do you think about it? My first Konosuke Fujiyama in Blue #2 patina'ed like crazy at first then I waxed it with Renaissance Wax once and it just leveled out at that point, how does the Kaiju patina?


Not as bad as Kono FM blue 2. But you have to be careful


----------



## jacko9

RockyBasel said:


> Not as bad as Kono FM blue 2. But you have to be careful


Careful of?


----------



## RockyBasel

just wiping it down while using it


----------



## jacko9

RockyBasel said:


> just wiping it down while using it


Thats a habit I developed quite awhile ago and never let my knives sit wet or damp. Thanks for the reminder though.


----------



## LewRob80

Kaiju rd 2 drops tomorrow!!!
For those interested


----------



## jacko9

LewRob80 said:


> Kaiju rd 2 drops tomorrow!!!
> For those interested


Kosuke posted on Instagram that rd2 will also be at cktg soon.


----------



## big_adventure

LewRob80 said:


> Kaiju rd 2 drops tomorrow!!!
> For those interested



Literally everybody is interested I imagine.


----------



## tcmx3

big_adventure said:


> Literally everybody is interested I imagine.



eh to be 100% honest the lottery like nature of these has turned me off the proposition.

I really like the idea of getting one, I think it's an attractive package at a reasonable price and whatever, but I dont like not just being able to put in my credit card and order in a reasonable timeframe.


----------



## big_adventure

tcmx3 said:


> eh to be 100% honest the lottery like nature of these has turned me off the proposition.
> 
> I really like the idea of getting one, I think it's an attractive package at a reasonable price and whatever, but I dont like not just being able to put in my credit card and order in a reasonable timeframe.



I agree ENTIRELY. I would probably place an order today, if I knew I'd get one in a year for the list price.


----------



## jacko9

Kosuke and Ivan have had Live Instagram shows with Tosho's staff explaining what goes into making these blades and I am not surprised that the quantity is limited given the amount of effort going into each one. I don't think these blades will ever be available in large quantities.


----------



## friz

What does rd 2 mean?


----------



## LewRob80

friz said:


> What does rd 2 mean?


Round 2


----------



## M1k3

Fight!


----------



## LAB

Who wants to start a pot? I bet it will be over in less than 1 min


----------



## zizirex

And it's gone..


----------



## LAB

That was ridiculous... I couldn't make payment in time


----------



## heldentenor

LAB said:


> That was ridiculous... I couldn't make payment in time



Same. Was in my cart and before Paypal even loaded it was gone. The vintage carbon went even faster.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

LAB said:


> Who wants to start a pot? I bet it will be over in less than 1 min


Well Duh! It’s been this way since the original Fuji days 8 years ago and when there were 3Xs the knives available.


----------



## Moooza

The vintage swedish was never even posted from what I could tell.


----------



## LAB

same thing..... sigh oh well The Bunka lasted for close to 30 sec more... but it was just too expensive....


----------



## LAB

Correction, too high priced...


----------



## Checkpure

Got a White 1 FM 240 but someone was using a bot on the Kaiju for sure. I had it in cart and ready to hit pay now less than 5 seconds and wouldn't go through.


----------



## JDC

#ban-the-bot


----------



## Checkpure

JDC said:


> #ban-the-bot


Seriously they should put some measures in place to stop that. I'm a software engineer and they don't even have the most basic of captcha/robot screening in place. Would not be hard for anyone to code something up to instantaneously checkout.


----------



## LAB

Everyone was gunning for the Kaiju and Swedish carbon... You actually have a good chance if you are gunning for a normal FM.
I scored a FM 240 too when everyone was gunning for the damascus blue#2


----------



## big_adventure

But is it up on eBay yet?


----------



## zizirex

the tetsujin looks interesting. Does anyone have experience with it?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Checkpure said:


> Seriously they should put some measures in place to stop that. I'm a software engineer and they don't even have the most basic of captcha/robot screening in place. Would not be hard for anyone to code something up to instantaneously checkout.


It’s by design. They could easily stop this process. The bigger the hype, the bigger the demand.


----------



## Giovanny Torres

I think I'll have to chase a different unicorn, it was a bot for sure it just got so slow to get to PayPal.


----------



## JDC

Checkpure said:


> Seriously they should put some measures in place to stop that. I'm a software engineer and they don't even have the most basic of captcha/robot screening in place. Would not be hard for anyone to code something up to instantaneously checkout.


yeah a simple JavaScript can do that. Guess next time it’ll be “the war of bots.”


----------



## tcmx3

this is so stupid.

Im sorry but it would be pretty trivial to ask people to sign up with an address and a cell phone, say over a two week period, confirm with cell phone.

then run the RNG to pick people in order, give them 24 hours to pay otherwise their knife goes to the next person in line.

does it 100% solve it? absolutely not. would that give people an actual chance to get something they want? absolutely yes.


----------



## Barmoley

This is basically what bloodroot does, except you just sign up for a shorter period of time. This is the best way to sell hard to buy, high demand items, but there is cost associated with this process and the seller has to want to be fair. they could easily raise price by $50-$100 to cover the cost of this lottery and still sell all they have.

It doesn't look like Konosuke sellers see this as a problem. Like @Chicagohawkie said, they could stop it if they wanted to, looks to be done on purpose.


----------



## LAB

The thing about this format is that in the rush of the moment, even if you don't get the knife you want, it is very highly likely that you will buy something else... Not to mention the hype...


----------



## Chicagohawkie

To all the Noobs. Back in the day, most people were never lucky enough to grab a Kono Fuji blue 2. Most that did waited years often. It just is what it is.


----------



## simar

Congrats to the lucky few that scored, maybe next time


----------



## Checkpure

LAB said:


> The thing about this format is that in the rush of the moment, even if you don't get the knife you want, it is very highly likely that you will buy something else... Not to mention the hype...


Yep. Bought the 240 FM in White 1 for that reason lol. Don't regret it thats for sure.


----------



## Pauldoduy

6 months and 1s.
6 months from 1st batch and sold out within 1s. @[email protected]


----------



## Checkpure

Pauldoduy said:


> 6 months and 1s.
> 6 months from 1st batch and sold out within 1s. @[email protected]


Yea kinda rough. I'm not sure how many they even received, could have been one...


----------



## LAB

4. 
Cheftogo gets 4, Tosho gets 4 and Ai & Om gets 2.
Total 10 made in 6 months.....


----------



## Checkpure

LAB said:


> 4.
> Cheftogo gets 4, Tosho gets 4 and Ai & Om gets 2.
> Total 10 made in 6 months.....


Damn 4 and they sold out like that. I don’t know how I could do it faster without a script.


----------



## rogue108

LAB said:


> 4.
> Cheftogo gets 4, Tosho gets 4 and Ai & Om gets 2.
> Total 10 made in 6 months.....



If you got to Tosho Knife Arts Instagram there is a series of interviews with Konosuke and Ivan of Tosho. There is one where they almost exclusively talk about the Kaiju and why so few are made. Shortened version is they had to work out the kinks of getting the forged blades in the required dimensions. The only people who sharpen Kaiju's are Myojin (FM sharpener) and Ivan. The bevels are perfectly flattened and finished on series of stones...etc. I think Ivan said they can crank out about 4 a month


----------



## Jason183

No hurry to try them, we all be getting Kaiju by the end of 2030, it’s just matter of time


----------



## LAB

rogue108 said:


> If you got to Tosho Knife Arts Instagram there is a series of interviews with Konosuke and Ivan of Tosho. There is one where they almost exclusively talk about the Kaiju and why so few are made. Shortened version is they had to work out the kinks of getting the forged blades in the required dimensions. The only people who sharpen Kaiju's are Myojin (FM sharpener) and Ivan. The bevels are perfectly flattened and finished on series of stones...etc. I think Ivan said they can crank out about 4 a month



Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining. Totally appreciate the work going into it... Just saying 10 in 6 months, yes we will probably get one by 2030, likely 2nd(or 3rd/4th..) hand


----------



## jacko9

Moooza said:


> The vintage swedish was never even posted from what I could tell.


All of the knives were announced via email for those that signed up for at least one of them. I cut this out of the notice I received; All of the knives were linked to this email from Tosho.







​







*VINTAGE SWEDISH CARBON*

*Konosuke Fujiyama Vintage Swedish Carbon Gyuto 240mm Ebony Handle*
The Vintage Carbon features a fine kasumi finish with a convex grind. The contrast between the vintage carbon and soft iron reveals the details of the beautiful hazakai (lamination line). The vintage carbon steel has incredible edge retention like Blue steels, yet takes an edge quickly on stones like White steels.

​
Link to Purchase


----------



## Moooza

jacko9 said:


> All of the knives were announced via email for those that signed up for at least one of them. I cut this out of the notice I received; All of the knives were linked to this email from Tosho.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *VINTAGE SWEDISH CARBON*
> 
> *Konosuke Fujiyama Vintage Swedish Carbon Gyuto 240mm Ebony Handle*
> The Vintage Carbon features a fine kasumi finish with a convex grind. The contrast between the vintage carbon and soft iron reveals the details of the beautiful hazakai (lamination line). The vintage carbon steel has incredible edge retention like Blue steels, yet takes an edge quickly on stones like White steels.
> 
> ​
> Link to Purchase


You don't understand - It was never available for sale from what I can tell. I was refreshing like crazy. Was immediately out of stock. I saw the kaijus etc. available, but not the vintage swedish


----------



## heldentenor

Moooza said:


> You don't understand - It was never available for sale from what I can tell. I was refreshing like crazy. Was immediately out of stock. I saw the kaijus etc. available, but not the vintage swedish



I think you’re right; had the same experience.


----------



## friz

Moooza said:


> You don't understand - It was never available for sale from what I can tell. I was refreshing like crazy. Was immediately out of stock. I saw the kaijus etc. available, but not the vintage swedish


You are right.


----------



## zizirex

it is on sale, I manage to put it on the cart but it's gone when I tried to pay.


----------



## LAB

Lol I was trying to pay for Kaiju, so the Swedish Carbon was gone by the time i clicked on it...
Bunka was still available... sold out at 12.06....

I fully support a raffle proposal, where we put in our names, even put payment in escrow if needed, and just do a draw..
A lot less stressful for everyone.


----------



## JDC

Maybe there was only one vintage swedish steel, but there were multiple Kaijus


----------



## DHunter86

JDC said:


> Maybe there was only one vintage swedish steel, but there were multiple Kaijus



There were 4 Kaijus. All gone within the first 30 seconds I think. Disappeared while I was waiting for Shoppay authentication.


----------



## Checkpure

DHunter86 said:


> There were 4 Kaijus. All gone within the first 30 seconds I think. Disappeared while I was waiting for Shoppay authentication.


Gone within first 5 seconds.


----------



## friz

DHunter86 said:


> There were 4 Kaijus. All gone within the first 30 seconds I think. Disappeared while I was waiting for Shoppay authentication.


There weren't 4 Kaijus available.


----------



## Checkpure

friz said:


> There weren't 4 Kaijus available.


That’s what I was thinking. Do you know how many?


----------



## friz

Checkpure said:


> That’s what I was thinking. Do you know how many?


I can't say.


----------



## esoo

zizirex said:


> the tetsujin looks interesting. Does anyone have experience with it?



I will soon - the discount on the scratched one threw me over the edge.


----------



## LewRob80

esoo said:


> I will soon - the discount on the scratched one threw me over the edge.


I was very tempted on this as well


----------



## zizirex

esoo said:


> I will soon - the discount on the scratched one threw me over the edge.


let me know how good it is..


----------



## esoo

zizirex said:


> let me know how good it is..



It'll be an interesting comparison as I have the MM210 in Blue2 right now.


----------



## Giovanny Torres

Did anyone here actually got any from this 2nd rd?


----------



## tcmx3

Giovanny Torres said:


> Did anyone here actually got any from this 2nd rd?



given that you'd probably have to be bot gang to have gotten one, I would be surprised if anyone admitted they had gotten one from this round for a while.


----------



## Bcos17

I got one. Did not use a bot. You definitely had to be very fast though. I put another item in my cart and entered all my info beforehand. I guess I got lucky.


----------



## Checkpure

Bcos17 said:


> I got one. Did not use a bot. You definitely had to be very fast though. I put another item in my cart and entered all my info beforehand. I guess I got lucky.


Congrats! Everything is all filled out for me before hand on Tosho (or other Shopify sites) and still was gone asap. It did take a couple extra seconds to show up on my end though.


----------



## Bcos17

The other thing I did was log in to the atomic clock website that has the exact time. I refreshed my window right as 11:59:59 turned into 12. There was nothing there, I refreshed again probably 12:00:01, still nothing, and then refreshed again, saw the listing, clicked add to cart, checkout, etc... The whole process took 4-5 seconds, maybe 6 at the most. Clicked submit order or whatever the last button was and crossed my fingers.


----------



## Giovanny Torres

Bcos17 said:


> The other thing I did was log in to the atomic clock website that has the exact time. I refreshed my window right as 11:59:59 turned into 12. There was nothing there, I refreshed again probably 12:00:01, still nothing, and then refreshed again, saw the listing, clicked add to cart, checkout, etc... The whole process took 4-5 seconds, maybe 6 at the most. Clicked submit order or whatever the last button was and crossed my fingers.


Nice! I was also fast, refreshing and details filled in advance and all, But before PayPal I was slowed.
At least someone here got one, kudos.


----------



## tcmx3

Bcos17 said:


> I got one. Did not use a bot. You definitely had to be very fast though. I put another item in my cart and entered all my info beforehand. I guess I got lucky.



a smart plan, and congrats on getting one the right way.

I still suspect several of them got scooped by bots.


----------



## Bcos17

I guess its possible people are using bots, but if enough people enter their info right away and are refreshing right as the clock turns to 12, they were gonna sell in under 10 seconds regardless, so its hard to know.

The knife actually just arrived about 2 minutes ago. Tosho had it boxed up with a tracking number by 12:30 yesterday and its here 27 hours later. Very impressive.


----------



## Bcos17

First impression....totally different knife than the regular fuji. Much heavier, really feels like a workhorse.


----------



## Bcos17

If anyone is interested in how they compare to regular Fujiyamas, last month I bought a Fujiyama from Tosho that was one of the more recent taller Fujis. It came in at 233 x 53 and 207 grams and the steel is Blue 1 as well. The Kaiju is 231mm x 52mm by comparison and weighs 240 grams.






Fuji


Kaiju


----------



## Jason183

Bcos17 said:


> The other thing I did was log in to the atomic clock website that has the exact time. I refreshed my window right as 11:59:59 turned into 12. There was nothing there, I refreshed again probably 12:00:01, still nothing, and then refreshed again, saw the listing, clicked add to cart, checkout, etc... The whole process took 4-5 seconds, maybe 6 at the most. Clicked submit order or whatever the last button was and crossed my fingers.


Thank you for sharing your method, now we all know how to snag it faster now


----------



## Jville

Bcos17 said:


> If anyone is interested in how they compare to regular Fujiyamas, last month I bought a Fujiyama from Tosho that was one of the more recent taller Fujis. It came in at 233 x 53 and 207 grams and the steel is Blue 1 as well. The Kaiju is 231mm x 52mm by comparison and weighs 240 grams.
> 
> View attachment 117621
> 
> 
> Fuji
> View attachment 117622
> 
> Kaiju
> View attachment 117623


How is the comparison on the distal taper and thinness of the tip?


----------



## jacko9

I got lucky as well and I don't even know what a bot is?


----------



## chiffonodd

jacko9 said:


> I got lucky as well and I don't even know what a bot is?



. . . that's exactly what a bot would say


----------



## Bcos17

Jville said:


> How is the comparison on the distal taper and thinness of the tip?


I would say the geometry is fairly similar in terms of how much distal taper both knives have. Obviously the Kaiju is wider along the spine. The first few centimeters from the tip going back along the spine are the same width as the regular fuji but then it gets thicker in comparison shortly after.


----------



## Checkpure

Bcos17 said:


> I would say the geometry is fairly similar in terms of how much distal taper both knives have. Obviously the Kaiju is wider along the spine. The first few centimeters from the tip going back along the spine are the same width as the regular fuji but then it gets thicker in comparison shortly after.


Thanks for sharing pics and comparisons!! I just got my FM 240 White 1 ebony handle (Tosho has the fastest delivery via dhl). First impressions are this is a perfect handle and balance point. Out of the box edge of course fantastic. Man I hope I can score a Kaiju at some point to try.


----------



## Jville

Bcos17 said:


> I would say the geometry is fairly similar in terms of how much distal taper both knives have. Obviously the Kaiju is wider along the spine. The first few centimeters from the tip going back along the spine are the same width as the regular fuji but then it gets thicker in comparison shortly after.


How about the thinness of the tip?


----------



## Bcos17

Jville said:


> How about the thinness of the tip?


Its very similar to the regular fuji. As I said, the first few mm are identical and then the Kaiju gets a little thicker, but looking at them next to each other, they are very similar and the tip is very thin.


----------



## Duukt

I'm surprised the Kaiju isn't 55mm tall - I thought that was one of the selling points.


----------



## jacko9

Bcos17 said:


> I guess its possible people are using bots, but if enough people enter their info right away and are refreshing right as the clock turns to 12, they were gonna sell in under 10 seconds regardless, so its hard to know.
> 
> The knife actually just arrived about 2 minutes ago. Tosho had it boxed up with a tracking number by 12:30 yesterday and its here 27 hours later. Very impressive.


I don't know how they do it but, mine arrived before noon today in Northern California shipped yesterday from Toronto,Canada! I checked the shipping details and noticed that it was still back East this morning but, it arrived at San Francisco airport at 9:28 and was checked out 20 minutes later.


----------



## jacko9

Duukt said:


> I'm surprised the Kaiju isn't 55mm tall - I thought that was one of the selling points.


I think the B#2 was 55mm tall and the B#1 was 53mm tall at least mine is 53.2 tall


----------



## Duukt

jacko9 said:


> I think the B#2 was 55mm tall and the B#1 was 53mm tall at least mine is 53.2 tall


I was looking at this page before and while they listed the HRCs for two different steels, they just listed the height as a flat 55mm. The FM page said 53mm which was what I got.



Kaiju – Konosuke


----------



## Bear

To-Go put them up and gone, no chance


----------



## Checkpure

Bear said:


> To-Go put them up and gone, no chance


Yea I tried. Was a little slow the draw because it asked me for a phone number I thought would be prefilled from paypal. Lost again.


----------



## Mikeadunne

Checkpure said:


> Yea I tried. Was a little slow the draw because it asked me for a phone number I thought would be prefilled from paypal. Lost again.


Exact same thing happened to me. I always have an auto fill fail it feels like.


----------



## Pauldoduy

I woke up at 6:00 AM, turned on the phone just to see all of them sold out. Unfortunately, I have no any chance to choose. Is your case the same as mine?


----------



## dmonterisi

jacko9 said:


> I think the B#2 was 55mm tall and the B#1 was 53mm tall at least mine is 53.2 tall



i got my B2 kaiju from to go today. it is 55.01mm tall at the heel on my calipers. 3.93 spine thickness above the heel. 230g. really stunning knife. will post pics later on.


----------



## dmonterisi

I really love the ziricote and horn handle. just a very unique look. the knife is very balanced and feels nimble. I will get to use it tomorrow for the first time.


----------



## Gregmega

Omg the jealousy is raging rn


----------



## Mikeadunne

Gregmega said:


> Omg the jealousy is raging rn


srsly, take my stimulus check plz!!!


----------



## LAB

#Envy #Jealousy #Hate


----------



## why-am-i-bleeding

aaaaaaand they're gone


----------



## Mikeadunne

why-am-i-bleeding said:


> aaaaaaand they're gone


What??


----------



## tostadas




----------



## Checkpure

Was there another drop?


----------



## DavidPF

Checkpure said:


> Was there another drop?


I suspect he was just 9 hours late for the party.


----------



## M1k3

DavidPF said:


> I suspect he was just 9 hours late for the party.


@coffeelover191919


----------



## zizirex

Looks promising.


----------



## daddy yo yo

Uhm... not here to bash the Kaijus but the knife just does what any other Watanabe has done for years, no!? Yes, it does look gorgeous and yes I'd try/buy one too but seriously, there's nothing I hate more than artificial scarcity (besides TF wabi-sabi, hahahaha). 4 knives available for a bunch of hundreds of interested buyers?! No thanks! Guess I'll have to stick with my old Fujiyama Blue #2 - yep, THE one!!


----------



## big_adventure

What you said - I'd love to try one, I just don't see that happening in the foreseeable future.


----------



## Jason183

zizirex said:


> Looks promising.



The knife looks so awesome until I heard the cracking sound when cutting carrots/Daikon, especially near the heel area, that’s the reason I won’t consider any workhorse type of grind knife.


----------



## frombaltimore

daddy yo yo said:


> Uhm... not here to bash the Kaijus but the knife just does what any other Watanabe has done for years, no!? Yes, it does look gorgeous and yes I'd try/buy one too but seriously, there's nothing I hate more than artificial scarcity (besides TF wabi-sabi, hahahaha). 4 knives available for a bunch of hundreds of interested buyers?! No thanks! Guess I'll have to stick with my old Fujiyama Blue #2 - yep, THE one!!



konoske/ivan explained that the scarcity comes from how labor intensive the process it is for them to produce them. now, they might be lying, but if they are not, then the scarcity has a reasonable explanation.


----------



## LAB

Jason183 said:


> The knife looks so awesome until I heard the cracking sound when cutting carrots/Daikon, especially near the heel area, that’s the reason I won’t consider any workhorse type of grind knife.



I was very surprised to hear that sound too...


----------



## Corradobrit1

Jason183 said:


> The knife looks so awesome until I heard the cracking sound when cutting carrots/Daikon, especially near the heel area, that’s the reason I won’t consider any workhorse type of grind knife.


My 210 Kato WH Migaki is not a  cracker.


----------



## Duukt

My TF Nash makes cracking noises but when I inspect the carrot slices, they appear perfectly smooth. It's a mystery!


----------



## big_adventure

For me it wasn't so much that it wedged some - the user literally tries to slide the known to be junk-in-the-trunk-ish Kaiju's heel through without any glide, so _some_ wedging was pretty likely. I was surprised at how badly it _stuck._


----------



## parbaked

frombaltimore said:


> konoske/ivan explained that the scarcity comes from how labor intensive the process it is for them to produce them. now, they might be lying, but if they are not, then the scarcity has a reasonable explanation.


The only extra labor is a final polish done by Konosuke after Myojin Naohito finishes the initial sharpening.
Konosuke explained that they have only one polisher who spends up to 6 hours on each Kaiju.
Seems they could make more knives or hire another polisher if they wanted to...


----------



## daddy yo yo

Duukt said:


> My TF Nash makes cracking noises but when I inspect the carrot slices, they appear perfectly smooth. It's a mystery!


Maybe the cracking noise comes from the wabi-sabi-handle that TF is so famous for?!??


----------



## Corradobrit1

daddy yo yo said:


> Maybe the cracking noise comes from the wabi-sabi-handle that TF is so famous for?!??


That must be it


----------



## Checkpure

The only thing that stuck out to me in that video was his grip.


----------



## big_adventure

Maybe the crack is just pure, mystical wabi-sabi? It doesn't affect the results, but it's there?


----------



## Corradobrit1

big_adventure said:


> Maybe the crack is just pure, mystical wabi-sabi? It doesn't affect the results, but it's there?


Like breaking the sound barrier?


----------



## big_adventure

Corradobrit1 said:


> Like breaking the sound barrier?



It's literally the sound of that epic Denka edge breaking covalent bonds in water molecules in the carrot. WABI-SABI LIIIIIIIIIFFFFFFEEEEEE.


----------



## Corradobrit1

big_adventure said:


> It's literally the sound of that epic Denka edge breaking covalent bonds in water molecules in the carrot. WABI-SABI LIIIIIIIIIFFFFFFEEEEEE.


Move over Large Hadron Collider, Denka is in town......


----------



## Delat

big_adventure said:


> For me it wasn't so much that it wedged some - the user literally tries to slide the known to be junk-in-the-trunk-ish Kaiju's heel through without any glide, so _some_ wedging was pretty likely. I was surprised at how badly it _stuck._



Looked like got all stuck in the cabbage too. To be fair, it looked like was using light pressure throughout the video, probably expecting the knife to fall through the produce like a laser instead of approaching it with more authority in his cuts.


----------



## Mikeadunne

Delat said:


> Looked like got all stuck in the cabbage too. To be fair, it looked like was using light pressure throughout the video, probably expecting the knife to fall through the produce like a laser instead of approaching it with more authority in his cuts.


his grip...I couldn't handle it after a minute


----------



## big_adventure

Mikeadunne said:


> his grip...I couldn't handle it after a minute



Yeah, he held that blade like he was afraid of it.


----------



## Corradobrit1

I don't think he wanted to obscure the beauty of the blade with a full blown pinch grip. The saw action was SO unprofessional.


----------



## McMan

Mikeadunne said:


> his grip...I couldn't handle it after a minute


Yeah, this guy was not letting the clutch out...


----------



## frombaltimore

parbaked said:


> The only extra labor is a final polish done by Konosuke after Myojin Naohito finishes the initial sharpening.
> Konosuke explained that they have only one polisher who spends up to 6 hours on each Kaiju.
> Seems they could make more knives or hire another polisher if they wanted to...


i don’t think it’s as easy as hiring another polisher. i think that


parbaked said:


> The only extra labor is a final polish done by Konosuke after Myojin Naohito finishes the initial sharpening.
> Konosuke explained that they have only one polisher who spends up to 6 hours on each Kaiju.
> Seems they could make more knives or hire another polisher if they wanted to...


if the knives are made to some level of exacting specifications as they say they are, i don’t think it would be as easy to hire another polisher who could come in an immediately do the job. 

this reminds me a lot of around the time restaurants started embracing the concept of locality/seasonality. it was hard to customers to accept that they couldn’t have fresh local tomatoes year round. and when they were in season locally, the supply wasn’t endless. people want what they want when they want it.


----------



## mauichef

parbaked said:


> The only extra labor is a final polish done by Konosuke after Myojin Naohito finishes the initial sharpening.
> Konosuke explained that they have only one polisher who spends up to 6 hours on each Kaiju.
> Seems they could make more knives or hire another polisher if they wanted to...


6 hours labor on each knife just polishing. So why not hire 3 extra people? Are you seriously suggesting that they can not only afford to hire another highly skilled polisher but that they are sitting around waiting for the work? 



daddy yo yo said:


> Uhm... not here to bash the Kaijus but the knife just does what any other Watanabe has done for years, no!? Yes, it does look gorgeous and yes I'd try/buy one too but seriously, there's nothing I hate more than artificial scarcity (besides TF wabi-sabi, hahahaha). 4 knives available for a bunch of hundreds of interested buyers?! No thanks! Guess I'll have to stick with my old Fujiyama Blue #2 - yep, THE one!!



Do you really believe this is a marketing ploy? Can you tell me how it behooves Konosuke to restrict production to the point that they are making almost no profit on the project? This is a labor of love. And BTW there were 8 released this time round. I dont see Kato expanding his production as a result of the moaning on KKF!

So much bad vibes on this site directed at Konosuke! Why?


----------



## Checkpure

mauichef said:


> 6 hours labor on each knife just polishing. So why not hire 3 extra people? Are you seriously suggesting that they can not only afford to hire another highly skilled polisher but that they are sitting around waiting for the work?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really believe this is a marketing ploy? Can you tell me how it behooves Konosuke to restrict production to the point that they are making almost no profit on the project? This is a labor of love. And BTW there were 8 released this time round. I dont see Kato expanding his production as a result of the moaning on KKF!
> 
> So much bad vibes on this site directed at Konosuke! Why?


What this all screams to be is they should be charging a lot more for their knives. Obviously demand far outweighs supply.


----------



## Boynutman

Wait... no TF picture on the box?!
Or is this real wood?


----------



## mauichef

Checkpure said:


> What this all screams to be is they should be charging a lot more for their knives. Obviously demand far outweighs supply.



Yep....that about sums it up perfectly!

In fact Kosuke just announced his new club idea on IG. Good read especially for the people who think Konosuke are playing games. He is serious about expanding production by bringing new talent to the forge but it is a long and expensive job. Oh and BTW...do the doubters have any idea of how little these guys earn...this is another aim of the club concept. To train and then pay smiths and sharpeners the real rewards they are due.

That's what we in Hawaii call Pono! (righteousness and respect for all)


----------



## Duukt

It can't be easy to just "add more people" since they're a small business and don't scale up easily or quickly. A lot of these businesses are literally running out of a rented house with limited floor and desk space - adding more people might require them to actually move to bigger premises.

The fact that the high demand knives get sold out immediately and stay sold out for long periods shows that they're charging too little. Why do the Honyaki's go for thousands while the Kaiju is just 600 bucks if so much effort went into it?


----------



## Checkpure

mauichef said:


> Yep....that about sums it up perfectly!
> 
> In fact Kosuke just announced his new club idea on IG. Good read especially for the people who think Konosuke are playing games. He is serious about expanding production by bringing new talent to the forge but it is a long and expensive job. Oh and BTW...do the doubters have any idea of how little these guys earn...this is another aim of the club concept. To train and then pay smiths and sharpeners the real rewards they are due.
> 
> That's what we in Hawaii call Pono! (righteousness and respect for all)


As cool as the club is why not just charge an appropriate amount for their work? They don’t need charity they are skilled craftsmen who can make highly desirable goods. The prices are going to inevitably go up a lot.


----------



## Checkpure

Duukt said:


> It can't be easy to just "add more people" since they're a small business and don't scale up easily or quickly. A lot of these businesses are literally running out of a rented house with limited floor and desk space - adding more people might require them to actually move to bigger premises.
> 
> The fact that the high demand knives get sold out immediately and stay sold out for long periods shows that they're charging too little. Why do the Honyaki's go for thousands while the Kaiju is just 600 bucks if so much effort went into it?


And a lot of those honyakis sit unsold for a while. I think there is a sweet spot between 600 - 2000 they are going to hit.


----------



## Duukt

Checkpure said:


> And a lot of those honyakis sit unsold for a while. I think there is a sweet spot between 600 - 2000 they are going to hit.


I agree though there are honyaki's which are in much higher demand than others too and it's reflected in their prices. 

I mean for most products, they sell at a higher rate initially and the price goes down slowly as the market gets saturated. There was an unverified post than an anonymous buyer had offered 3 times the market rate for a Kaiju to be reserved so there is some upper limit as well. Just seems weird that a regular fujiyama retails 450+ in the US and the Kaiju with so much more effort and smaller production capacity is only 150 more. Maybe Kosuke should start doubling it's price.


----------



## Checkpure

Duukt said:


> I agree though there are honyaki's which are in much higher demand than others too and it's reflected in their prices.
> 
> I mean for most products, they sell at a higher rate initially and the price goes down slowly as the market gets saturated. There was an unverified post than an anonymous buyer had offered 3 times the market rate for a Kaiju to be reserved so there is some upper limit as well. Just seems weird that a regular fujiyama retails 450+ in the US and the Kaiju with so much more effort and smaller production capacity is only 150 more. Maybe Kosuke should start doubling it's price.


The regular Fujiyamas sell out in minutes too. Had to act fast to get them from Tosho and CKTG. Fantastic knives that’s for sure.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Good lord! Every old school kono fan knows that you get lucky Any time you get a popular Kono offering. Been this way for nearly a decade! Get back in line and wait for the next batch, most people who want one...... never get one.


----------



## Duukt

Thanks to @nakiriknaifuwaifu 's post on knife findings, I was able to snag a blue #1 from tosho knife arts minutes before it went OOS. Speaking of underpriced, they were also running a 20% discount sale too.


----------



## Darktrader

I was able to snatch a fm 270 Blue 2 from CKTG from their recent drop. Lucky timing. Fantastic knife.


----------



## Moooza

Darktrader said:


> I was able to snatch a fm 270 Blue 2 from CKTG from their recent drop. Lucky timing. Fantastic knife.


The 270 is a true monster - absolutely huge.


----------



## Duukt

Who else sells the 270 besides CKTG or is it their exclusive?


----------



## Darktrader

Yes it is and once in hand, very easy to wield.


----------



## esoo

Chicagohawkie said:


> Good lord! Every old school kono fan knows that you get lucky Any time you get a popular Kono offering. Been this way for nearly a decade! Get back in line and wait for the next batch, most people who want one...... never get one.



While at the same time, younger smiths that Konosuke tries to promote sit unsold.


----------



## Checkpure

Darktrader said:


> I was able to snatch a fm 270 Blue 2 from CKTG from their recent drop. Lucky timing. Fantastic knife.


Yea its one of those knives you just love to use. The height and weight are absolutely fantastic, thin enough to ghost produce but with some serious heft.


----------



## Checkpure

Duukt said:


> Thanks to @nakiriknaifuwaifu 's post on knife findings, I was able to snag a blue #1 from tosho knife arts minutes before it went OOS. Speaking of underpriced, they were also running a 20% discount sale too.


I didn't get the 20% off when I snagged the White 1 last drop. Also a fantastic knife and steel, amazing edge retention and so thin.


----------



## Omega

Good luck finding another polisher that can do Kaiju. Its not just a surface polish- its complete overhaul / refinement of the blade's geometry on flat stones. Getting someone that can do that is even more difficult that it sounds. I got a chance to talk with Ivan about it.. and some of the techniques he's using require a sharpener to be perfectly ambidextrous in their technique. Good luck finding that, when the number of craftsmen that even polish Period on flat stones is tiny.


----------



## LAB

Duukt said:


> Thanks to @nakiriknaifuwaifu 's post on knife findings, I was able to snag a blue #1 from tosho knife arts minutes before it went OOS. Speaking of underpriced, they were also running a 20% discount sale too.



Actually I am pretty thankful for the Kaiju.. Although I didn't manage to get one... the sheer fact that everyone was gunning for one, allowed me to get a FM 240!
That would usually be gone immediately, but this time it sat there for a few more minutes, sufficient for me to make an order = ))


----------



## Duukt

LAB said:


> Actually I am pretty thankful for the Kaiju.. Although I didn't manage to get one... the sheer fact that everyone was gunning for one, allowed me to get a FM 240!
> That would usually be gone immediately, but this time it sat there for a few more minutes, sufficient for me to make an order = ))


Haha! Modern problems come with modern solutions!


----------



## LAB

I am just waiting for the next big thing from Kono, then I will probably stand a chance to get a Kaiju lol


----------



## JDC

LAB said:


> Actually I am pretty thankful for the Kaiju.. Although I didn't manage to get one... the sheer fact that everyone was gunning for one, allowed me to get a FM 240!
> That would usually be gone immediately, but this time it sat there for a few more minutes, sufficient for me to make an order = ))


Based on the video, the FM can probably beat kaiju at least in wedging


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

JDC said:


> Based on the video, the FM can probably beat kaiju at least in wedging


I still want a Kaiju badly...


----------



## JDC

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I still want a Kaiju badly...


Haha, a voice inside told me that life will be a lot better if I don't want a Kaiju...


----------



## Helicon

esoo said:


> While at the same time, younger smiths that Konosuke tries to promote sit unsold.


Are you referring specifically to the MM, or are there others you'd include here, too? 

I ask because I recently acquired a MM 270 gyuto and it's an astonishing performer.


----------



## esoo

Helicon said:


> Are you referring specifically to the MM, or are there others you'd include here, too?
> 
> I ask because I recently acquired a MM 270 gyuto and it's an astonishing performer.



MM, Tetsujin,, Sumiiro. I handled a Tetsujin (but not cut with it), and never touched a Sumiiro.

I love the MM - I have both a 210 and 240 in B#2. The MM is easily a better knife than the FM 210 W#2 I had.

I think there is two issues that haunt Konosuke with these other lines
- Kosuke tries to pay makers a fair value for their work, which means young smiths get paid as much as older smiths (say Y Tanaka). This means the knives can be considered "expensive" by the market for the reputation of the smith
- these knives are pick-up and do everything well kind of knives, and as forum knife snobs we rave over knives that are good at a couple of things and then switch over to another knife. The good at 90% of things gets outshined by great at 50%.


----------



## tcmx3

Chicagohawkie said:


> Good lord! Every old school kono fan knows that you get lucky Any time you get a popular Kono offering. Been this way for nearly a decade! Get back in line and wait for the next batch, most people who want one...... never get one.



I think this is a really bad take.

Not looking for ways to improve things because "this is the way it's always been" is super, super weak.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

tcmx3 said:


> I think this is a really bad take.
> 
> Not looking for ways to improve things because "this is the way it's always been" is super, super weak.


Sorry buddy, reality.


----------



## tcmx3

Chicagohawkie said:


> Sorry buddy, reality.



there's literally a group buy two topics down showing there's a different, better way to do it.

you just lack imagination and sense.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

tcmx3 said:


> there's literally a group buy two topics down showing there's a different, better way to do it.
> 
> you just lack imagination and sense.


There is no Kaiju group buy anywhere. You just make no sense period.


----------



## tcmx3

Chicagohawkie said:


> There is no Kaiju group buy anywhere. You just make no sense period.



the fact that you cant do a simple extrapolation is extremely in line with the quality of your initial take.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu




----------



## Chicagohawkie

tcmx3 is here to solve the kaiju delemma. Glad this is now over with.


----------



## Jason183

I rath


tcmx3 said:


> there's literally a group buy two topics down showing there's a different, better way to do it.
> 
> you just lack imagination and sense.


But I don’t think the mass drop will ever be happening for Either Fujiyama line or Kato/Shigefusa etc in the future.


----------



## tcmx3

Jason183 said:


> I rath
> 
> But I don’t think the mass drop will ever be happening for Either Fujiyama line or Kato/Shigefusa etc in the future.



it's not about having a group buy.

this is really straightforward; there are alternatives to making people use bots to buy products or smash f5 and hope they have their payment info saved to buy a knife there is clearly more demand than supply for. more than one, as it happens.

Im legitimately stunned by the difficulty this is seemingly causing some folks.


----------



## JDC

tcmx3 said:


> it's not about having a group buy.
> 
> this is really straightforward; there are alternatives to making people use bots to buy products or smash f5 and hope they have their payment info saved to buy a knife there is clearly more demand than supply for. more than one, as it happens.
> 
> Im legitimately stunned by the difficulty this is seemingly causing some folks.


That shows how much people appreciate quality ground/polished knives that are easily maintainable at home. And there should be more knives like that in the market, even at a higher price to give polishers/sharpeners a fair share.


----------



## tcmx3

JDC said:


> That shows how much people appreciate quality ground/polished knives that are easily maintainable at home. And there should be more knives like that in the market, even at a higher price to give polishers/sharpeners a fair share.



any knife is easy to maintain at home if you dont care how it looks or functions after youre done


----------



## Jason183

JDC said:


> That shows how much people appreciate quality ground/polished knives that are easily maintainable at home. And there should be more knives like that in the market, even at a higher price to give polishers/sharpeners a fair share.


But I don’t think it’s easy to increase the supply because Y. Tanaka not only making Kaiju, he is making all other Fujiyama lines, he’s not only making knives for konosuke, he also make knives for lots different vendors, this why the he only produces so few Kaiju per month, because there’s also others things he needs to do instead of making Kaiju all day long, if he only making Kaiju blades, I’m sure the supply will be higher than now.


----------



## big_adventure

Jason183 said:


> But I don’t think it’s easy to increase the supply because Y. Tanaka not only making Kaiju, he is making all other Fujiyama lines, he’s not only making knives for konosuke, he also make knives for lots different vendors, this why the he only produces so few Kaiju per month, because there’s also others things he needs to do instead of making Kaiju all day long, if he only making Kaiju blades, I’m sure the supply will be higher than now.



From an economics perspective, it would be more efficient for him and for the world if he stopped all of that other crap and just made Kaijus.


----------



## JDC

Jason183 said:


> But I don’t think it’s easy to increase the supply because Y. Tanaka not only making Kaiju, he is making all other Fujiyama lines, he’s not only making knives for konosuke, he also make knives for lots different vendors, this why the he only produces so few Kaiju per month, because there’s also others things he needs to do instead of making Kaiju all day long, if he only making Kaiju blades, I’m sure the supply will be higher than now.


Well, for him, probably yes. Forging for a Kaiju may demand really precise controls of every steps, so that the final product can be efficiently ground to specs. 

The thing is, there are nearly no brands other than Konosuke that are producing knives with "no low spots." If many of them start to strive for that, I think stone lovers will be a lot happier (we all know how painful it can be to flatten bevels).


----------



## big_adventure

JDC said:


> The thing is, there are nearly no brands other than Konosuke that are producing knives with "no low spots." If many of them start to strive for that, I think stone lovers will be a lot happier (we all know how painful it can be to flatten bevels).



Sukenari, for one - I've never seen anything other than perfection in Sukenari's grinds, moreover, I've never heard anyone even mention a Sukenari with a low spot.


----------



## zizirex

My Takada doesn't have any low spot on the bevel, even if there' one I wouldn't notice and easily flatten with my 1k stone.
the only low spot I could see is on the machi tang.


----------



## JDC

big_adventure said:


> Sukenari, for one - I've never seen anything other than perfection in Sukenari's grinds, moreover, I've never heard anyone even mention a Sukenari with a low spot.


That'd be great! Have you tried thinning and refinishing a Sukenari?


----------



## spaceconvoy

I refinished my Sukenari ginsan. I'd say it was close but not dead flat


----------



## JDC

spaceconvoy said:


> I refinished my Sukenari ginsan. I'd say it was close but not dead flat


That's already impressive


----------



## big_adventure

JDC said:


> That'd be great! Have you tried thinning and refinishing a Sukenari?



I have not had to as yet thin mine. I slipped when sharpening it the first time and laid it down on the stone, which left a scratch in the hairline finish. So I recently did a sandpaper progression to take the finish to roughly "misty migaki" - it looks lovely to me. It was basically perfectly slightly convex from just behind the edge all the way to the spine, with no uneven spots at all.


----------



## Iggy

Had 4 Sukenaris over the years (ZDP189 Hairline, ZDP189 Damascus, HAP40 Hairline, YKR7 Hairline)

1 was near perfect
1 was thick like a Zwilling or a Wüsthof (the damascus one)
2 were ok but needed thinning (the last two)

So good knives, yes... but no where near perfect


----------



## big_adventure

Iggy said:


> Had 4 Sukenaris over the years (ZDP189 Hairline, ZDP189 Damascus, HAP40 Hairline, YKR7 Hairline)
> 
> 1 was near perfect
> 1 was thick like a Zwilling or a Wüsthof (the damascus one)
> 2 were ok but needed thinning (the last two)
> 
> So good knives, yes... but no where near perfect



I wasn't saying that the knives are perfect - first, I don't think that exists, and second, even if it did it would be different for each person. I was just saying that the OOTB F&F is generally close to perfect on them. You might want to thin them or change them to make them better for your use, but they come out of the box with roughly perfect lines for what the maker meant for them to be. It was in comparison to Konosuke, which is known for the same thing. Zwilling and Wusthof are the same as well, of course - nobody ever heard of a "high end" Wusthof or Zwilling with bad F&F - they have QC folks who would stop that in it's tracks.

This is contrary to everyone's favorite whipping boy (man, grandpa, uncle, whatever) TF - where the knife is relatively guaranteed to NOT have perfect F&F. That doesn't make it bad _at all_ - it's just part of the TF experience.  I have a Denka and I love it, I'm most definitely not bashing TF.


----------



## Mallan13

This thread is so full of negative energy it really almost makes me happy I couldn’t land a Kaiju in the last drop. I went with a Sumiiro and it’s lovely.


----------



## mauichef

Mallan13 said:


> This thread is so full of negative energy it really almost makes me happy I couldn’t land a Kaiju in the last drop. I went with a Sumiiro and it’s lovely.


Amen to that. I got a thick FM! Sweet! I am stunned at the negativity and arrogance of some posters who think they know how to run a knife business better than Kosuke. And that they have the inside scoop on how these knives are made and the problems associated with that. Unreal!


----------



## Omega

big_adventure said:


> I have not had to as yet thin mine. I slipped when sharpening it the first time and laid it down on the stone, which left a scratch in the hairline finish. So I recently did a sandpaper progression to take the finish to roughly "misty migaki" - it looks lovely to me. It was basically perfectly slightly convex from just behind the edge all the way to the spine, with no uneven spots at all.



@big_adventure The sandpaper you used- was it fixed to a hard, flat surface, that doesn't have any flex?


----------



## dmonterisi

I put together a video of my first cuts with different product with the kaiju. I think its a great performer but with a couple of distinct shortcomings. The steel feels great, very nice feel through product and solid thud. The grind is great, with excellent performance on difficult product like carrots and sweet potatoes. However, there is some stiction on horizontal cuts on onion. Also, everything wants to stick to the blade. I think that may improve over time as the finish gains some patina. Aside from those small issues, its a joy to use.


----------



## Corradobrit1

dmonterisi said:


> I put together a video of my first cuts with different product with the kaiju. I think its a great performer but with a couple of distinct shortcomings. The steel feels great, very nice feel through product and solid thud. The grind is great, with excellent performance on difficult product like carrots and sweet potatoes. However, there is some stiction on horizontal cuts on onion. Also, everything wants to stick to the blade. I thunk that may improve over time as the finish gains some patina. Aside from those small issues, its a joy to use.



Was that an OOTB edge? B#1 or B#2 Kaiju? The tip performs great. Thanks for posting


----------



## dmonterisi

Corradobrit1 said:


> Was that an OOTB edge? B#1 or B#2 Kaiju? The tip performs great. Thanks for posting



sure no problem. yeah the tip performance is very nice. yes, it is the ootb edge. blue 2 from cktg.


----------



## Checkpure

dmonterisi said:


> I put together a video of my first cuts with different product with the kaiju. I think its a great performer but with a couple of distinct shortcomings. The steel feels great, very nice feel through product and solid thud. The grind is great, with excellent performance on difficult product like carrots and sweet potatoes. However, there is some stiction on horizontal cuts on onion. Also, everything wants to stick to the blade. I thunk that may improve over time as the finish gains some patina. Aside from those small issues, its a joy to use.



Nice to see someone make some cuts with a proper grip. Thanks for posting, seems like a fine performer.


----------



## JDC

dmonterisi said:


> I put together a video of my first cuts with different product with the kaiju. I think its a great performer but with a couple of distinct shortcomings. The steel feels great, very nice feel through product and solid thud. The grind is great, with excellent performance on difficult product like carrots and sweet potatoes. However, there is some stiction on horizontal cuts on onion. Also, everything wants to stick to the blade. I thunk that may improve over time as the finish gains some patina. Aside from those small issues, its a joy to use.



Thanks for this extensive demo! Is the core steel mirror polished? If so the stiction on the onion might come from that.


----------



## dmonterisi

JDC said:


> Thanks for this extensive demo! Is the core steel mirror polished? If so the stiction on the onion might come from that.



i mean the core steel is polished but not full mirror. more of a satin polish. it could definitely be contributing to the stiction. we will see how it goes over time, hopefully the stiction lessens with more use.


----------



## big_adventure

Omega said:


> @big_adventure The sandpaper you used- was it fixed to a hard, flat surface, that doesn't have any flex?



Nope. I used a block of cork to support the paper, the knife was on a board I use for sharpening and such. Alternating each grit between heel-to-tip and spine-to-edge.


----------



## IsoJ

dmonterisi said:


> I put together a video of my first cuts with different product with the kaiju. I think its a great performer but with a couple of distinct shortcomings. The steel feels great, very nice feel through product and solid thud. The grind is great, with excellent performance on difficult product like carrots and sweet potatoes. However, there is some stiction on horizontal cuts on onion. Also, everything wants to stick to the blade. I think that may improve over time as the finish gains some patina. Aside from those small issues, its a joy to use.



Thanks for the video. Looks like a solid cutter. Would be nice to see some patina on the blade and how it affects with the sticking.


----------



## nwshull

Ai and Om one is coming up. The game is afoot .


----------



## Bodine

Care to translate ?


----------



## Vdark




----------



## Bodine

Thanks V


----------



## Checkpure

Ai themselves haven't posted about it lol. Bet one of those finds its way into a shop hand which is fine by me.


----------



## Repjapsteel

Hey guys can you let me get this one? Promise you'll get the next one.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Repjapsteel said:


> Hey guys can you let me get this one? Promise you'll get the next one.


You need one of these


----------



## Omega

big_adventure said:


> Nope. I used a block of cork to support the paper, the knife was on a board I use for sharpening and such. Alternating each grit between heel-to-tip and spine-to-edge.



Ahh okay, that's kind of what I expected.

In that setup, you are NOT going to be able to tell if there are low spots or high spots. If that's your litmus test on comparing a Sukenari grind to a Kaiju's refinement, you're not getting good information.


----------



## big_adventure

Omega said:


> Ahh okay, that's kind of what I expected.
> 
> In that setup, you are NOT going to be able to tell if there are low spots or high spots. If that's your litmus test on comparing a Sukenari grind to a Kaiju's refinement, you're not getting good information.



Eh, I also used stones in the process, there are no high or low spots anywhere. And the reflection has no distortions at all - which it would if there were high and low spots - as I've seen on many other knives, including high end ones. The suke i have has a completely perfect convex shape the full length of the blade.


----------



## hmh

Any recent reports on the Kaiju? Best (midweight) knife ever? How does it compare to other good cutters frequently mentioned here?


----------



## RockyBasel

Kaiju is on a completely different level - but I only know the blue 1. For the price I paid, around $650 - it can’t be beat. 

people pay 2-3 times that much for a western maker, but this one is incredible in terms of firm finish, and geomtery

only Kamon and Jannis can match it


----------



## hmh

RockyBasel said:


> Kaiju is on a completely different level - but I only know the blue 1. For the price I paid, around $650 - it can’t be beat.



Thanks! What are the pros and cons compared to your toyamas? I'm trying to figure out if I should be all in for the coming (most likely christmas?) drop


----------



## nwshull

hmh said:


> Thanks! What are the pros and cons compared to your toyamas? I'm trying to figure out if I should be all in for the coming (most likely christmas?) drop


Just so you know, these things come out half dozen blades spread over 2-3 stores every 6 months and sell out in under a second. I would not get your heart overly set on one.


----------



## hmh

nwshull said:


> Just so you know, these things come out half dozen blades spread over 2-3 stores every 6 months and sell out in under a second. I would not get your heart overly set on one.



Haha yeah I know, at least I'll put my name in the new lottery thing stores have started doing. One day...


----------



## big_adventure

RockyBasel said:


> only Kamon and Jannis can match it



As someone who missed the lottery by like 50 places for both of those massdrops, I have to say, from the bottom of my heart... 

"You *****."


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> Kaiju is on a completely different level - but I only know the blue 1. For the price I paid, around $650 - it can’t be beat.
> 
> people pay 2-3 times that much for a western maker, but this one is incredible in terms of firm finish, and geomtery
> 
> only Kamon and Jannis can match it


I want one badly. Lemme know when you get tired of yours!


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> I want one badly. Lemme know when you get tired of yours!


Not anytime soon My friend


----------

