# Buying a turkey



## boomchakabowwow (Nov 7, 2018)

its been a long time since I’ve had the luxury of staying home for t-day. 

Thinking I might reserve a better bird. 

Is it night/day difference? What am I looking for? I’m buying a small turkey for sure.


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## Chef Doom (Nov 7, 2018)

To be honest, turkey is the worst tasting of all of the common edible fowl. I do not know why we spend so much time pretending the stuff is edible. You won't be able to tell much of a difference but the small organic farm you choose to go with will appreciate your business.

After coming into recent information and experimenting I am realizing food is highly overcooked. I have been actively undercooking chicken and it tastes delicious. I will buy a fresh turkey this year and do the same.


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## DamageInc (Nov 7, 2018)

The only turkey I can stand to eat is the braised leg.


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## WildBoar (Nov 7, 2018)

We bought some heritage turkeys that frankly did not taste all that great (they definitely had more taste then a nice supermarket bird -- but it wasn't necessarily good taste!).

In my opinion, put less emphasis on the actual bird, and more on the dish. There are ways to improve on a simple roasted turkey. We have tried a couple of improved preparations, such as slathering all under the skin with a butter/ sage/ panchetta paste, and serving with a sauce full of panchetta bits. The turkey is a good canvas for the stronger flavors of the paste/ sauce.

Last year I successfully argued against having a turkey. We cooked lamb for me, my wife and my son. And for my dad we herb-crusted and roasted a turkey breast, as he does not eat lamb. I frankly am happy without turkey, and for a number of years ate prime rib at T-giving, but my wife really, really likes to have a turkey (she is an immigrant, so it feels American to do so). So since we skipped cooking a turkey last year I have already been informed we will be having one this year


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## btbyrd (Nov 7, 2018)

Most people think they don't like turkey because:

1) They suck at cooking turkey
2) They buy garbage turkey with no flavor.
3) The turkeys they make, or their family makes, are dry and flavorless because of (1) and (2)
4) They cook turkey once a year - at most - because they think the crappy turkeys they make are the best that can be done. Which is why they suck at cooking turkey.

These people typically also enjoy deli turkey, which is almost always a low-quality abomination.

Modern commercial turkeys are freaks of nature -- spherelike birds that are all tit. Like our garbage chickens, they're bred to pack on as much white meat as fast as possible so they can be slaughtered as soon as possible. If you can find an older breed from a local farmer, buy that. Failing that, I order a pastured turkey from my local grocer. And failing that, an organic bird that has been air-chilled and whose meat and skin aren't sodden with salty phosphate brine. Of the big commercial firms, Bell and Evans seem to make the highest quality widely-available product (at least in the places I've lived). And if you want something really special, mail order a heritage turkey from Heritage Meats USA. But my first stop would be to hit up your local farmer's market and see what's available.


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## larrybard (Nov 7, 2018)

btbyrd said:


> Most people think they don't like turkey because:
> 
> 1) They suck at cooking turkey



And your favored cooking method that differs from the customary recommendations is what?


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## pleue (Nov 7, 2018)

I wonder why folks don't cook turkey like chicken or duck and seem to think it needs to be one general way. I do a half thanksgiving each year drawing on a different cuisine each year and find the right birds and even the wrong ones to be on the whole more flavorful and complex than most chicken. Generally, for scale (we cook about 6-8 turkeys each year) and fun, I've taken to confit/smoke/braise the dark meat and/or wings and poach, deepfry, stirfry the white meat, using the carcasses to make stock and/or demi for grains, sauces, and the like.


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 7, 2018)

I just ordered a small heritage bird. 12-13 lbs. local farmer. 

We’ll see how this plays out. Historically my turkeys come out pretty successfully. 

I didn’t even ask him how much. Yikes.


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## btbyrd (Nov 7, 2018)

larrybard said:


> And your favored cooking method that differs from the customary recommendations is what?



It's so easy, it's almost like cheating.



You can do it many other ways, but I almost always separate the white meat from the dark, since they're best cooked to different temperatures. I'll often smoke the legs/thighs, for instance. When it comes to "customary recommendations," the biggest problem is that they're often shaped by outmoded USDA temperature guidelines. 165F is too high for breast meat. And if you're cooking an entire turkey whole and waiting for the thickest part of the thigh to come up to 165F, that bird is going to be hammered. Pass the gravy.


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## Ryndunk (Nov 7, 2018)

IMO. Turkey should never be roasted whole. Both the white and dark meat are compromised. Break the poor bird down. Braise the legs with the carcass a day ahead. Braising liquid becomes gravy. Brine the breast 24hrs then roast.
While were at it skip that stuffing everyone tries to pass off as good. Make a savory bread pudding instead. Rye bread, some of that braising liquid, cream and eggs. Add whatever you want to it. Mushrooms, grated butternut squash, swiss chard, leeks.


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## Paraffin (Nov 7, 2018)

The last time we did a turkey for family we spatchcocked it (flattened) for more even cooking. Then we pulled it back together to preserve the "look I'm carving the bird, who wants what?" table presentation.

That traditional presentation is what you lose -- if it matters -- with the sous vide technique, although I admit it has advantages in more relaxed cooking and flexible serving time. I also wonder if you can get a really good, crisp skin with a pan or oven finish after sous vide, without overcooking the parts. The turkey parts in the Chef Steps video above looked a bit under-crisped, with too light a color on the outside. Maybe haul out the blow torch if you want it darker....

P.S. I use that Chef Steps Joule immersion circulator for lots of things and it works great. I've never tried it with turkey, but it's my go-to for skinless/boneless chicken breast, pork, lobster, carrots, all with a pan finish (except lobster, fine right out of the bag). I'd love to use it on steaks. Unfortunately my wife can't get past the lack of inside color gradient you get with sous vide and a hot pan finish.


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## Mucho Bocho (Nov 7, 2018)

I'll just say this, the biggest reason why turkeys come out cooked unevenly is because almost everybody transfers the bird from the refrigerator to the oven without allowing it to come to room temp. a 20 pound bird takes at least two hours on the counter before cooking.

Personally I like to dry brine it for several days before cooking. No offense but a wet brine is a disaster.


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## btbyrd (Nov 7, 2018)

Paraffin said:


> I'll just say this, the biggest reason why turkeys come out cooked unevenly is because almost everybody transfers the bird from the refrigerator to the oven without allowing it to come to room temp. a 20 pound bird takes at least two hours on the counter before cooking.
> 
> Personally I like to dry brine it for several days before cooking. No offense but a wet brine is a disaster.



+1 on the dry brine. Injection brining is also a good strategy. Wet brines have a tendency to sog out the skin, especially if you're going to cook the bird conventionally. And they're just gross to deal with. But I'll push back on the "let it come up to room temperature" strategy, which doesn't make an appreciable difference operating within safe time constraints. (Reference one and two). I also don't think that even cooking is especially desirable on a whole bird cooked in an oven; ideally, the legs and thighs would cook to a higher temperature than the white meat. This is why some (e.g. Martha Stewart) have suggested cooking the whole turkey upside down so the thighs "overcook" while the breast meat stays juicy and protected down below.


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## dwalker (Nov 7, 2018)

I think I'm going to cure the bird this year and slow smoke it 12 - 14 hours. At the very least, it will be excellent for sandwiches.


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## Ryndunk (Nov 7, 2018)

Dry brine does work well and not as messy. Wet brine for a whole Turkey is near impossible at home. Wet brineing the boneless breasts is a bit more feasible if you want to try. I use 2 gallon size ziploc bags. 

If you do remove the breast meat from the bones be sure to remove the tenderloins they are great for grilling or saute dishes. Like boneless skinless chicken breast but with more flavor.


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## erickso1 (Nov 8, 2018)

Any of you guys ever try rotisserie on a grill? I haven't, but I know chickens come out awesome.


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## mille162 (Nov 8, 2018)

Have yet to find a better method than the Julia Childs way of cooking the bird (https://www.americastestkitchen.com...B+u2nzFcIIhrLoNLfii94sFFo=
&extcode=NSFBK22AK). Deconstructing so the meat is all done at the same time is essential. I usually go a little light on the seasoning for the deboned drumsticks, and making the gravy a day ahead of time is a huge helper.

We actually forgo the traditional dinner and intentionally skip to the best part: leftover sandwiches! We get thick cut local bacon, cook the stuffing a little bit wet so it sticks together, fresh breads, choice of fresh lemon-sage or cranberry mayo, and warm slices of the bird. Sides of brussel sprouts (cooked in bacon fat of course), mashed potatoes (which can also be layered on the sandwich if you like), and set gravy that you can smear on your bread, or melt ontop of your potatoes. Have done this the last 5 years and no one misses the traditional meal!


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## Chef Doom (Nov 8, 2018)

WildBoar said:


> We bought some heritage turkeys that frankly did not taste all that great (they definitely had more taste then a nice supermarket bird -- but it wasn't necessarily good taste!).
> 
> In my opinion, put less emphasis on the actual bird, and more on the dish. There are ways to improve on a simple roasted turkey. We have tried a couple of improved preparations, such as slathering all under the skin with a butter/ sage/ panchetta paste, and serving with a sauce full of panchetta bits. The turkey is a good canvas for the stronger flavors of the paste/ sauce.
> 
> Last year I successfully argued against having a turkey. We cooked lamb for me, my wife and my son. And for my dad we herb-crusted and roasted a turkey breast, as he does not eat lamb. I frankly am happy without turkey, and for a number of years ate prime rib at T-giving, but my wife really, really likes to have a turkey (she is an immigrant, so it feels American to do so). So since we skipped cooking a turkey last year I have already been informed we will be having one this year


Buying a small turkey plus a red meat should be the standard. Buying a bird large enough to feed the entire family is a mentality for the poor.


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## Chef Doom (Nov 8, 2018)

pleue said:


> I wonder why folks don't cook turkey like chicken or duck and seem to think it needs to be one general way. I do a half thanksgiving each year drawing on a different cuisine each year and find the right birds and even the wrong ones to be on the whole more flavorful and complex than most chicken. Generally, for scale (we cook about 6-8 turkeys each year) and fun, I've taken to confit/smoke/braise the dark meat and/or wings and poach, deepfry, stirfry the white meat, using the carcasses to make stock and/or demi for grains, sauces, and the like.


This has been my number one complaint. People who never roast a whole chicken suddenly think they are the masters of whole roast turkey. All to have the ceremonial carving by the head of the household who was traditionally banned from the kitchen.

When I did buy turkeys, I purchased the smallest I could find and sectioned it and cooked in phases.


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 8, 2018)

I think I’m going off the reservation; gonna try Pavo Salvadorean. It’s roasted then braised. 

Yikes.


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## MontezumaBoy (Nov 8, 2018)

btbyrd said:


> Modern commercial turkeys are freaks of nature -- spherelike birds that are all tit.



Your descriptions just crack me up!!!! Keep up the great work!

+1 on the Sous Vide but also braised legs work very well and for the 'must have white meat' folks a very hot oven for bone-in breast works well but smoke / oven / house can be a bit of an issue and it ties up the oven for that alone at the time ...


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## Chef Doom (Nov 8, 2018)

I should never of read this thread. Now I have to go buy a heritage bird [emoji35]. Damn things are expensive. [emoji26]


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## Stx00lax (Nov 8, 2018)

Heritage birds are the way to go. I make the family buy the bird since i have to cook it. Fair trade IMO. As a chef, I've wet brined, dry brined, roasted whole, spatchcocked, grilled, pan-fried, confit, sous vide, deep fried, smoked etc.. Turkey itself is a mediocre bird, but doesn't have to suck. Aside from roasting whole massive birds (turkeys are too big for this), any method can work as long as whoever cooking it serves crispy skin and juicy meat. My personal favorite method to cook and eat, is to dry-brine for over a day and smoke at 250 degrees. Cherry wood. Plus I get to stay outside with the cool kids and away from annoying "indoorsy" relatives.


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## Stx00lax (Nov 8, 2018)

Ryndunk said:


> IMO. Turkey should never be roasted whole. Both the white and dark meat are compromised. Break the poor bird down. Braise the legs with the carcass a day ahead. Braising liquid becomes gravy. Brine the breast 24hrs then roast.
> While were at it skip that stuffing everyone tries to pass off as good. Make a savory bread pudding instead. Rye bread, some of that braising liquid, cream and eggs. Add whatever you want to it. Mushrooms, grated butternut squash, swiss chard, leeks.


Savory bread pudding is my go-to holiday side. So easy to make and customize. Not to mention delicious.


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## tgfencer (Nov 8, 2018)

As a small-scale farmer, I suggest folks who want to get local or organic turkeys check in with their local farms as early as possible, often times farmers get booked out.

As for the prices, turkeys from small scale farms are expensive for a couple of reasons. The first is because despite their size, they can be pretty fragile. When they're chicks, they are weak, susceptible to the usual array of illnesses and weather, and not particularly bright (i.e. i've seen turkey chicks drown themselves in an inch of water). Then when they're older, if they are pasture-raised, they can be easy prey for medium sized predators, particularly owls, coyotes, and foxes. Finally, they take significantly longer to raise organically/in-pasture than other common fowl, such as chicken, usually 4-6 months (or longer for heritage breeds) versus 7-9 weeks for chickens.

Also, as someone who will be slaughtering about 350 off these birds next week, those suckers take much longer and require more effort to process than chickens. One of the worst weeks of the year.


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## RonB (Nov 8, 2018)

I'm not a pro like some of you, but I've always gotten rave reviews on my turkeys smoked on a Weber kettle with a rotisserie. I pull them at 160, but may go a bit earlier in the future. It only takes ~ 40 seconds at 158* F to be safe.


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## rstl87 (Nov 9, 2018)

If you’re not set on having a whole turkey, Costco has a frozen butterball breast pack that is made up of several breasts, maybe 6 pounds? I’ve found it to be a great alternative to roasting a whole turkey - It cooks evenly and is pretty juicy. Just an alternative to consider.


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## pc9111 (Nov 9, 2018)

I've been doing a Costco turkey also, I put chorizo under the skin and in the stuffing best tasting bird you ever had.


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## Ryndunk (Nov 9, 2018)

pc9111 said:


> I've been doing a Costco turkey also, I put chorizo under the skin and in the stuffing best tasting bird you ever had.



"If it drips red grease I'm probably going to like it"


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## pc9111 (Nov 9, 2018)

No doubt, I do chorizo whole chicken and it's also comes out great.


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## Grunt173 (Nov 10, 2018)

Reading all this makes me want to cook fish for Thanksgiving instead.


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## DDPslice (Nov 10, 2018)

Thank sweet Jesus I am not doing anything this year. I have had success with wet brine at 2.5-3% for at least 3 days, hung in the fridge for 1-2days then deep deep fried that sucker. Only one year failed and that was the beginning with not brining long enough, can't stress enough 3-5days. For other meats I've made a tea of bay, juniper other aromatics and spices and added the tea to the brine (before the meat goes in) and then fridge. I really want to smoke a bird one year, or Peking. Or maybe BBQ similar to what they do with a half pig. I don't know why people turkey or ham once a year?Sometimes they are like $2.50-3.50 /lb, friggin cheap meat that I cook and freeze in portions, just saying.


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## Anton (Nov 10, 2018)

I'm making tamales for turkey day - i'll bet anyone they are better than any turkey

Pork 
Beef
Cheese and poblano 
Goat 
and a few turkey leg ones...


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## Anton (Nov 10, 2018)

Chef Doom said:


> I should never of read this thread. Now I have to go buy a heritage bird [emoji35]. Damn things are expensive. [emoji26]


this is how they get us. Everything in mexico is heritage...


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## jacko9 (Nov 10, 2018)

I just smoker a 3 pound boneless turkey breast on my Weber Smokey Mountain at 230 degrees with apple wood chunks. I brined it overnight and it came out moist and very flavorful. For Thanksgiving we'll roast a 13 pound small bird after brining for 24 hours.

What we really need out here is for somebody to come out to our golf courses and get rid of the large flocks of Turkeys roaming all over the place.


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## aboynamedsuita (Nov 10, 2018)

I deboned a turkey recently because I want to put my Vacmaster pro to use… i took the breast filets and seasons with salt & pepper, then wrapped in sliced pork belly, bit more S&P, sealed it, placed in fridge 24 hrs, cooked SV for a bit to help set it then on the bbq with applewood… crisped up nice on the outside and was literally wrapped in bacon


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## Mucho Bocho (Nov 10, 2018)

Nice way to go Tanner


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## Anton (Nov 10, 2018)

aboynamedsuita said:


> I deboned a turkey recently because I want to put my Vacmaster pro to use… i took the breast filets and seasons with salt & pepper, then wrapped in sliced pork belly, bit more S&P, sealed it, placed in fridge 24 hrs, cooked SV for a bit to help set it then on the bbq with applewood… crisped up nice on the outside and was literally wrapped in bacon
> 
> View attachment 44709
> 
> ...


That Kramer is showing off


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## Paraffin (Nov 11, 2018)

jacko9 said:


> What we really need out here is for somebody to come out to our golf courses and get rid of the large flocks of Turkeys roaming all over the place.



I wonder what that would taste like. We used to own a large vacation property up in the NE Tennessee mountains, bordering on the Cherokee National Forest. There were wild turkeys roaming around (and deer, and bear). Never thought to try eating one. They looked kinda scrawny, but maybe they would have tasted good.

We're not doing a formal Thanksgiving this year, but we're doing one large meal for a few visiting family members over the Xmas holidays. We originally thought of goose, but I think we're just going with "Cornish" game hens. Give everyone a bird and let them deal with it. Easy to cook, and we can spend more time on some nice side dishes without worrying about a centerpiece dish.


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## WildBoar (Nov 11, 2018)

Paraffin said:


> I wonder what that would taste like. We used to own a large vacation property up in the NE Tennessee mountains, bordering on the Cherokee National Forest. There were wild turkeys roaming around (and deer, and bear). Never thought to try eating one. They looked kinda scrawny, but maybe they would have tasted good.


I ate wild turkey for many T-givings; my BIL's father would always kill a few each year for a big T-giving dinner. The dinner was held each year at a high-end country club that had a platoon of decent cooks. Inevitably, the wild turkey would be the least popular item on the table; other game birds he shot usually tasted better, and none could hold a candle to the prime rib 

The wild turkeys were typically tough and on the gamey side. They were much leaner then a farm-raised bird, and I suspect typically a bit older.


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## tgfencer (Nov 11, 2018)

The wild turkeys were typically tough and on the gamey side. They were much leaner then a farm-raised bird said:


> Yup. Tons of wild turkeys here in WNC (and in nearby TN), but there's a good reason folks don't generally hunt them rather than fork out the money for raised birds. Much better game fowl out there.
> 
> Personally, I'm a lamb or duck guy for Thanksgiving/holiday meals.


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 12, 2018)

I hunt turkey. I find the only edible parts are the breast. 

I use the rest of the carcass to make the best broth.


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## riba (Nov 15, 2018)

Slow braised thighs on the kamado with a quick crisping up of the skin under the broiler is a lazy preparation that I really enjoy.


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## SacFly (Nov 17, 2018)

I've been looking forward to this meal for a week already. Plus, mom does the veggies and pies, I do the bird and gravy, and we have the routine down; it's very satisfying family time.

We roast the stuffed bird over aromatics and a healthy amount of white wine. Add stock if needed. Pull the bird the moment the breasts are done. Remove the breasts and set aside/keep warm. Drain the pan drippings. Put the carcass-stuffing/legs/wings back into the oven to continue cooking. Degrease the drippings and make your gravy. This will take 20-30 minutes and by that time the dark meat +stuffing will be done.

People are always impressed by our turkey, and I'm like "no ****, it's juicy. The breast came out when it was ready and the dark meat/stuffing came out when it was ready." It's not unlike sauteing a chicken breast. You have a relatively short window where the meat is perfectly cooked. A meat thermometer is your best friend.

We don't brine it, but we do S+P the inside and rub the outside with a generous amount of butter. I do baste it every 30 minutes or so, but I'm not sure that this makes a difference. Cover the skin with aluminum foil if it gets too brown.


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## Bert2368 (Feb 7, 2020)

Anyone tried sous vide on a whole turkey?

Thread necromancy because I have a 13 lb. turkey in the freezer, bought spur of the moment, it was incredibly cheap on sale after Xmas/New Year's.

We have raised our own turkeys for the past couple of years, but one of our idiot neighbors let his dogs run free and they killed off our entire flock of 8 bourbon red turkeys last summer. I usually separated the breast from the back/thighs/drumsticks of our home grown birds and cooked them separately (the dark portions of our free range birds definitely needed a bit more time) in a kamado and/or a Weber with good results.

I am looking at a sous vide to BBQ grill for final crisping, coloring & smoke flavor, ideally as a whole bird. Here is an on line recommendation to sous vide with enough chicken stock in the bag to eliminate air from the cavity, followed by crisping in a hot oven for a short period.

https://recipes.anovaculinary.com/recipe/sous-vide-whole-turkey

I am thinking to modify this by:

A: Use my own turkey stock instead of chicken to fill up the air space, I have plenty of turkey stock saved, it is somewhat smoky as all our birds get some time in a grill, even if they are finished in the oven. Adding some fresh thyme, black pepper, garlic and sage leaves to that stock as well, possibly?

B: Crisp it in a covered Webber grill with a bit of fruit wood for some smokey flavor (we like our turkeys a bit smoky).


(Edit)
Found the below in that recipes comment section. WHAT.

_OK. Keep laughing to a minimum..... I souse vide a turkey 2 years ago... Didn't think about the broth method.... I filled the turkey cavity with 2 round river rocks that I scrubbed and sanitized.... kept bird from floating.... was a great turkey!!!


1728_


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## Bert2368 (Feb 8, 2020)

At the time I bought it, all I was looking at was the price per lb. and weight. But the total does suggest it will be devilishly good- Or a real BEAST.






The bird comes out of the sous vide around 18:00 for a late dinner.






Might finish it by putting it hot into the water smoker instead of crisping in the oven or a hot webber, "she who must be obeyed" refuses to eat bird skins except on crispy ducks in China. Silly of her, but...


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## Bert2368 (Feb 8, 2020)

Ended up cooking the turkey 22 hours in sous vide @ 150°F, then 1.5 hours in a water smoker over charcoal and apple wood for smoke at about 180°F

It worked pretty well.

The dark meat in particular was very juicy & tender. White meat was good too, not dried out, but I think even with sous vide, it could still pay to separate the bird into white and dark portions. It would also make it much easier to bag! Next time-


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## Bert2368 (Feb 9, 2020)

And the final act, after picking the carcass, several many turkey sandwiches & etc.

Between the quart of turkey stock I filled the cavity with, the liquid from sous vide bag and simmering for stock the picked carcass with all the celery trimmings, onion ends & peelings, tiny center of head garlic cloves, questionable looking carrots and mushroom stems, I have nearly five quarts of defated, strained turkey vegetable stock. I'm thinking cream of turkey soup with portobello mushrooms and potato dumplings. This being Winter and all, you know.


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## Nikabrik (Feb 10, 2020)

Bert2368 said:


> ...I think even with sous vide, it could still pay to separate the bird into white and dark portions. It would also make it much easier to bag! Next time-



Yeah, I wish it's seen this thread yesterday. The general advice I've seen when I looked into it before are that the dark and light meat are optimal at different temperatures - so they separate the bird and cook them accordingly.
Of course, one upside of spatchcocking is the different parts cook at generally appropriate rates.
That said, I do have a turkey in the freezer, and I've been curious to sous vide one. I'll have to look at temperature tables - I'd be inclined to soon for sort lower temperatures if possible.


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