# Which shapton for thinning?



## labor of love (Jan 9, 2018)

Im looking to get something to use for thinning...already have a king 300 and some 400 grit stuff. Which shaptons do you guys enjoy using for thinning? Im looking for something faster than king 300. Shapton Pro or glass 220? 120? Likes and dislikes?
Thanks


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## valgard (Jan 9, 2018)

I'm waiting for the SG 320, Badgertooth recommended that to me very strongly as a metal eater machine so I have high hopes for it.


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## chinacats (Jan 9, 2018)

Why not Atoma 400?


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## labor of love (Jan 9, 2018)

Ive also heard good things about shapton 320. I kinda figured it might make my king 300 redundant. Maybe thats not accurate. Anybody have preferences for the 220 and 120 grit stuff?


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## pd7077 (Jan 9, 2018)

Ive taken a few knives to zero on a SP320. Definitely eats metal, but I think I wanna pick up a SP220 to see how it compares.


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## YG420 (Jan 9, 2018)

The gesshin 220 is great for thinning. It requires a good soak and is thirsty af, but eats a ton of metal


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## labor of love (Jan 9, 2018)

YG420 said:


> The gesshin 220 is great for thinning. It requires a good soak and is thirsty af, but eats a ton of metal



Thanks. Kinda figured it would be thirsty. Not sure which way thirsty or shapton.


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## andur (Jan 10, 2018)

Shapton Pro 320 is good and fast, will dish more than the Shapton Glass ones. It's actually my go-to low grit stone because my Shapton Glass range is in the garage at the moment. I've got mixed feelings about Shapton Glass 320 because I feel it's no half as fast as the Shapton Glass 500. This might be because I rub my stones together to lap them and maybe my 320 is full of 1000 paste etc, I'm not sure. But I highly recommend the Shapton Glass 500, it's a very nice and fast stone. It also comes as a double thickness (10mm thick) if you can find it.


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## labor of love (Jan 10, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Why not Atoma 400?



I dunno. Never thought about it? You like it? Btw I didnt forget about that handle, I should have it going out to ya this week.


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## panda (Jan 10, 2018)

ive read that the shapton PRO 120 is stupid fast, but i am worried about awful feel. i know low grits arent supposed to feel good but i still want tolerable. for example i love the glass 500, i just want stupid fast metal removal hence interest in the 120 grit. anyone use SG 120 wanna chime in?


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## chinacats (Jan 10, 2018)

If you just want to remove metal fast, the best I've used was the sigma power 120 from Stu. Mine's in storage or i'd let you use it. I used a 220 Gesshin followed by suehiro cerax 320 to clean up and the combination worked well. I asked about the 400 atoma because I've been thinking about buying one myself.

Stone will load but the powder that comes with it will keep it clean and you can actually use it too but it's 36 grit...I believe he also included 60 grit sic as well but don't see it listed. A fun stone to use but you can do serious damage if not paying attention...not for faint of heart.

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store...roduct_info&cPath=335_404_403&products_id=692

Panda, it feels really hard and coarse:biggrin: Don't know about the Shaptons.


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## panda (Jan 10, 2018)

that looks like it would be similar to grinding on pavement, i'm gonna pass on that lol!!


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## labor of love (Jan 10, 2018)

Oddly enough China the stone Im replacing is a sigma 220grit( RIP). Served me well and I have only nice things to say about it. Ive never owned or even used a shapton so Im intrigued, might just get gesh 220. Since I have already have a king 300 I dont see a reason why I should pursue shapton 500 or 320. But Im all ears if it could make sense to own both.


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## K813zra (Jan 10, 2018)

pd7077 said:


> Ive taken a few knives to zero on a SP320. Definitely eats metal, but I think I wanna pick up a SP220 to see how it compares.



You have a lot of patience...I have a SP320 and fast is surely not the word I would use. The SP220 and Pink brick 220 are noticeably faster and I still think they are way to slow to zero a grind. I have done it a few times and it left me wanting a belt grinder.


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## NO ChoP! (Jan 10, 2018)

I usually go dmt plate to same grit Shapton glass. The glass smoothes out the scratch pattern. I really like the glass stones in the lower grits. Nothing removes metal like a diamond plate, though.


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## Choppin (Jan 10, 2018)

I recently got a Shapton Glass 220. Its my only Shapton and only stone below 400, so any comparison is limited. Having said that, its faaaaaast and doesnt feel terrible (actually feels quite good for how fast it is). I wouldnt even consider the 120 now as I really dont feel I need anything faster, but thats just one opinion


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## panda (Jan 10, 2018)

No such thing, faster the better for big thinning jobs lol


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## Badgertooth (Jan 10, 2018)

panda said:


> ive read that the shapton PRO 120 is stupid fast, but i am worried about awful feel. i know low grits arent supposed to feel good but i still want tolerable. for example i love the glass 500, i just want stupid fast metal removal hence interest in the 120 grit. anyone use SG 120 wanna chime in?



I got the SG 320 and 120 because I love the 500 so much. The 320 is the champ, the 120, weirdly, is kinda slow on harder stuff. SG 320 and 500 are the only things that can go toe to toe with sukenari Honyaki.


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## panda (Jan 10, 2018)

So are you saying I should get SG220? &#129315;
Then again the stuff I'm thinking I just soft iron cladding.


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## K813zra (Jan 10, 2018)

Badgertooth said:


> I got the SG 320 and 120 because I love the 500 so much. The 320 is the champ, the 120, weirdly, is kinda slow on harder stuff. SG 320 and 500 are the only things that can go toe to toe with sukenari Honyaki.



The 120 SG is a weird stone. I much prefer the pro. But I do love the SG500!


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## labor of love (Jan 10, 2018)

Full confession here, I started this thread hoping everyone would recommend either pro or SG 220, instead the 320 SG is what people like. Choppin being the lone dissenter. And China being the wild card. Interesting.


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## valgard (Jan 10, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Full confession here, I started this thread hoping everyone would recommend either pro or SG 220, instead the 320 SG is what people like. Choppin being the lone dissenter. And China being the wild card. Interesting.



I've actually had a few people telling me not to get the SG220, people I tend to trust in terms of stones.


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## panda (Jan 11, 2018)

i have a feeling not too many people actually tried 120, only nutso like you and i would even consider it
SG320 just seems redundant to me since i already use cerax 320


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## panda (Jan 11, 2018)

K8 - can you please describe the differences between 120SG vs pro? in terms of feedback and speed


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## labor of love (Jan 11, 2018)

panda said:


> i have a feeling not too many people actually tried 120, only nutso like you and i would even consider it
> SG320 just seems redundant to me since i already use cerax 320



People here mentioned that its surprisingly slow though. I think 220 is as low as I wanna go.


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## daveb (Jan 11, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Oddly enough China the stone Im replacing is a sigma 220grit( RIP). Served me well and I have only nice things to say about it. Ive never owned or even used a shapton so Im intrigued, might just get gesh 220. Since I have already have a king 300 I dont see a reason why I should pursue shapton 500 or 320. But Im all ears if it could make sense to own both.



Could have put one in the box....


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## panda (Jan 11, 2018)

daveb said:


> Could have put one in the box....


lol, i should probably not post the joke that immediately thought of


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## panda (Jan 11, 2018)

badger did you ever try SG220? i enjoy the SG500 so much i am considering picking one up even though i still have 98% life left on chosera400.


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## labor of love (Jan 11, 2018)

daveb said:


> Could have put one in the box....



What does moderator D want in a box?


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## Dave Martell (Jan 11, 2018)

panda said:


> ive read that the shapton PRO 120 is stupid fast, but i am worried about awful feel. i know low grits arent supposed to feel good but i still want tolerable. for example i love the glass 500, i just want stupid fast metal removal hence interest in the 120 grit. anyone use SG 120 wanna chime in?




I wore through 3 of these stones back about 13 yrs ago when I was first learning. They do indeed cut stupid fast and they wear almost as fast too. They have a really rough gritty feel to them.


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## Dave Martell (Jan 11, 2018)

K813zra said:


> You have a lot of patience...I have a SP320 and fast is surely not the word I would use. The SP220 and Pink brick 220 are noticeably faster and I still think they are way to slow to zero a grind. I have done it a few times and it left me wanting a belt grinder.



Yes I agree the Shapton Pro 320 is too slow for major work. It's a nice stone but not at all a fast metal remover.


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## Dave Martell (Jan 11, 2018)

Shapton Glasstones are very weird stones, they've got the feel 'n feedback of worn out diamond plates from China. I personally don't care for them. The GS120 is awful, very slow and feels wrong.


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## panda (Jan 11, 2018)

Thanks Dave, what about the glass 220?


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## Dave Martell (Jan 11, 2018)

panda said:


> Thanks Dave, what about the glass 220?




I don't recall that one as standing out, sorry.


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## daveb (Jan 11, 2018)

panda said:


> lol, i should probably not post the joke that immediately thought of



We like jokes.


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## daveb (Jan 11, 2018)

labor of love said:


> What does moderator D want in a box?



I have Jon's G220 for the day when a knife gets hosed or it's major thinning time. Thankfully don't use it often.


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## mqphoto (Jan 12, 2018)

For major work Atoma 140 easy choice. I have worn out 120 and 220 shapton and can't compare them to Atoma 140.


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## labor of love (Jan 12, 2018)

mqphoto said:


> For major work Atoma 140 easy choice. I have worn out 120 and 220 shapton and can't compare them to Atoma 140.



Thanks. Sounds like another down vote for the 220.


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## mqphoto (Jan 12, 2018)

Go Atoma 140, it will spare you some time and effort.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 12, 2018)

I've got the 220 and it feels like concrete. I don't think it cuts any faster than the King Deluxe 300 either. 

I'd be really careful thinning with an 140 Atoma, especial if it isn't broken in yet. You'll leave some very deep, find scratches the will be hard to remove.

Honestly, I'd say get the sandpaper holder from James. You can then put any grit on it you want 20 grit if you want. Kinda like a poor mans electric belt grinder. Always flat too.


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## K813zra (Jan 12, 2018)

Mucho Bocho said:


> I've got the 220 and it feels like concrete. I don't think it cuts any faster than the King Deluxe 300 either.
> 
> I'd be really careful thinning with an 140 Atoma, especial if it isn't broken in yet. You'll leave some very deep, find scratches the will be hard to remove.
> 
> Honestly, I'd say get the sandpaper holder from James. You can then put any grit on it you want 20 grit if you want. Kinda like a poor mans electric belt grinder. Always flat too.



The first time I heard this I thought it was a weird idea but I am warming up to it. The sandpaper holder thing.


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## Matus (Jan 12, 2018)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Honestly, I'd say get the sandpaper holder from James. You can then put any grit on it you want 20 grit if you want. Kinda like a poor mans electric belt grinder. Always flat too.



To keep things in a right perspective, that sandpaper holder costs as much as 1x30 belt grinder with a couple of belts. At the same time doing repairs with a belt grinder requires some experience to avoid really unpleasant mistakes.


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## RDalman (Jan 12, 2018)

I don't know if it's true for all coarse stones, but when I want to go fast, really shape some bevel or thin aggressively, I use my king 300 and open/refresh it like every minute or two on 60 grit sic on a granite slab. Messy but works pretty well.


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## Badgertooth (Jan 12, 2018)

Mucho Bocho said:


> I'd be really careful thinning with an 140 Atoma, especial if it isn't broken in yet. You'll leave some very deep, find scratches the will be hard to remove.



Truthbombs. And by the one the gouginess is tamed, youve lost a fair bit of cutting speed.


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## Badgertooth (Jan 12, 2018)

panda said:


> badger did you ever try SG220? i enjoy the SG500 so much i am considering picking one up even though i still have 98% life left on chosera400.



I havent, but by all accounts the SG320 is new and a response to the fact that people love the 500 and want a slightly gruntier lower grit version. People have been a little meh abt the 220


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## panda (Jan 12, 2018)

I'll find out for myself, sg220 on order.


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## Chicagohawkie (Jan 13, 2018)

I have all the shapton pro stones up to 8000 grit. Just thinned my cleaver on the 120 a few days ago. Very effective at removing metal. I wouldnt want to thin with a pro 320 at all! The 220 is much more rougher and more suited for thinning! For around 40 bucks that I paid for the 120 Id venture to say it will last me years, but then I dont do a lot of real heavy thinning.


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## K813zra (Jan 13, 2018)

Matus said:


> To keep things in a right perspective, that sandpaper holder costs as much as 1x30 belt grinder with a couple of belts. At the same time doing repairs with a belt grinder requires some experience to avoid really unpleasant mistakes.



I bought a 1x30 and for me it is very cumbersome to use due to the narrowness of the belt. Not pleasant to use use at all, either, but it is convenient once you get the hang of it. Much, much faster. I feel like I want to get a 2 inch but I am not sure I want to spend that much. I mean, I could get a nice natural or two in its stay...lol.


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## HRC_64 (Jan 13, 2018)

A single GS 320 stone is appealing to me because of the travel/storage footprint
Any more comments on 320 vs 500 in a head-to-head overall review?


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## NO ChoP! (Jan 13, 2018)

I love the 500 for it's very even scratch pattern. It also feels very smooth for a lower grit, also for quickly exposing fresh metal for weekly sharpening, being able to skip directly to a 3k or even 5k. You don't get any of that with the 320, and it's not super effective for thinning, so I don't see the purpose.


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## inferno (Jan 13, 2018)

Maybe I'm alone of this opinion but if you need to go below 5-800 or so, why not just use diamonds? We all have the plates so..
Or silicon carbide low grit.


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## K813zra (Jan 13, 2018)

inferno said:


> Maybe I'm alone of this opinion but if you need to go below 5-800 or so, why not just use diamonds? We all have the plates so..
> Or silicon carbide low grit.



Because diamond plates feel horrid in use. irate1:


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## HRC_64 (Jan 13, 2018)

NO ChoP! said:


> I love the 500 for it's very even scratch pattern. It also feels very smooth for a lower grit, also for quickly exposing fresh metal for weekly sharpening, being able to skip directly to a 3k or even 5k. You don't get any of that with the 320, and it's not super effective for thinning, so I don't see the purpose.



Thanks...this is helpful response.


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## K813zra (Jan 13, 2018)

Agreed, that is a very well put response. I really like the SG500 for the same reasons.


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## chinacats (Jan 13, 2018)

K813zra said:


> Because diamond plates feel horrid in use. irate1:



And leave a lot of cleaning up to do afterwards


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## K813zra (Jan 13, 2018)

chinacats said:


> And leave a lot of cleaning up to do afterwards



That is a better point than mine!


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## panda (Jan 14, 2018)

i love the sg500 but it's not fast enough for thinning. i need to find a real champion insane metal removing stone (not diamond)


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## GorillaGrunt (Jan 14, 2018)

Sigma Power Select II 240 removes metal really fast. Feels and sounds like hell, like coarse diamond although the scratches are much easier to polish out. Dishes quickly though so not sure if its suitable for thinning, although some of that can probably be handled with technique.


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## panda (Jan 14, 2018)

i had one and hated it so much i gave it away. it felt worse than DMT


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## Matus (Jan 14, 2018)

I use Atome 140 when necessary (pretty much never on a knife) and follow by Bester 220. The Atome is super fast, but in particular on sami mai knives it can wreak havoc on the soft cladding (on some of them). So I was warned.


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## K813zra (Jan 14, 2018)

Matus said:


> I use Atome 140 when necessary (pretty much never on a knife) and follow by Bester 220. The Atome is super fast, but in particular on sami mai knives it can wreak havoc on the soft cladding (on some of them). So I was warned.



Mono steel monsters from ebay often require a trip to a plate if not a belt grinder, sadly. Bleh...yuck! It is what it is though. No more project knives for me.


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## chinacats (Jan 14, 2018)

panda said:


> i had one and hated it so much i gave it away. it felt worse than DMT



You looking for a massage or trying to remove metal?


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## Matus (Jan 14, 2018)

K813zra said:


> Mono steel monsters from ebay often require a trip to a plate if not a belt grinder, sadly. Bleh...yuck! It is what it is though. No more project knives for me.



I can not help but think that if a new knife needs to be taken to a Atoma or belt grinder, than it is not a knife, but a hardened knife blank.


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## K813zra (Jan 14, 2018)

Matus said:


> I can not help but think that if a new knife needs to be taken to a Atoma or belt grinder, than it is not a knife, but a hardened knife blank.



I totally agree!


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## panda (Jan 30, 2018)

so i took the plunge and picked up a SG220. i like how it feels much more than any other coarse stone i've used, but it lacks speed and dishes a bit more than i expected. used on 3 knives, i've already put a concave dip in the stone i'm guessing like 1.5mm worth biased more on one side.. i imagine i'm going to wear through this stone within a year. afterwords i'll be sticking with cerax 320 unless i find something else to try.


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## zitangy (Jan 30, 2018)

The 220 Naniwa grey color is the roughest stone that I have, Been using it for years...

Fast cutter, leaves a thick layer of slurry that needs to be flushed from time to time or add water. It does its job with an aggresive grinding sound.... loud too... As a lot if steel is being removed, inevitably the stone does wear out and its important to rotate the stone ... front to back and vice versa and use every part of the stone.. Slight dishing here and there is not too relevant as its not the steel at the edge thats being removed... The 4 corners, the sides at the top of stones are all used depending where i want to abrade..

No complaints.. gets the job done fast enough for me and not too expensive .. Stones for me below 1000 grit must be fast cutters a cheap!!!

Have fun..Z


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## panda (Jan 31, 2018)

stupid photobucket


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## inferno (Feb 2, 2018)

I would much much MUCH rather get a knives and stones sandpaper holder than a "really" rough stone imo. however its not an issue since I have both and atome 400 and a dmt 325. and there is simply no need for anything else. Unless i wanted to piss away some money that is. for no good reason.


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