# Pour over coffee grinders?



## LostHighway (Jun 27, 2022)

My venerable Baratza Viruoso grinder (with upgraded burrs) jammed this morning. Normally this isn't a huge problem but this time he hopper won't turn so I can't remove it and no amount to tapping and coaxing has helped. I will put in an advice request to Baratza, they're very good about support, but I fear that addressing this is going to mean destroying some plastic parts (replacements available through Baratza). 
The question at hand is should I buy a new grinder and if so which one? Before anyone suggests small capacity hand grinders I should note that the first thing in the morning drill, if I'm having coffee as opposed to tea, is to brew a liter of coffee for the household. I need to be able to grind 55 - 65 g relatively quickly while half awake.
An unusually fast and large capacity hand grinder might be an option but I can't think of one off hand. I'm also not willing to spend a small fortune on a grinder so I'm mostly shopping in the $250 - $400 US realm. The grinder must have enough adjustment range to handle anything from French Press to V60, I don't care about espresso or Turkish, with a decent degree of precision. The Fellow Ode and the Baratza Virtuoso + immediately come to mind but I'm open to other suggestions. Product support definitely matters which excludes most PRC made grinders. Advice comrades?


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## MarcelNL (Jun 27, 2022)

Grinders - Home-Barista.com is probably your best source for info


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## MarcelNL (Jun 27, 2022)

Or watch a couple of James Hoffmann video reviews on YT, I find his reviews are pretty good.


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## hmh (Jun 27, 2022)

Eureka mignon for drip is probably good. The bottom ones of the Mignon line are pretty much exactly the same as the higher end ones apart from the screen and noise isolation (i.e. burrs and engine are the same across the line up to the specialita).

I actually bought the Mignon crono on sale and had their espresso burrs installed. Ended up with pretty much the equivalent of the Silenzio at 1/3 of the price.


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## EShin (Jun 27, 2022)

In terms of cost performance, the brand Timemore offers exceptional grinders and I've been very happy with my hand grinder. I saw that they now offer an electronic mill, the Timemore Grinder Go, which fits your description. Haven't tested it myself but the reviews seem to be quite positive, so it might be worth checking out if it's available there.


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## boomchakabowwow (Jun 27, 2022)

I suck. I get my stuff ground at the coffee store. I dont have time to fuss with it. but I do have time to do a pour-over every morning. I'll live. 

my friend gives me crap about it, but he does this hand grinder thing. I love going to his house and I will ask for a second cup. hahah.


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## Chips (Jun 27, 2022)

The Fellow Ode is pretty awesome, small footprint, fast, and much quieter than the Baratza's I've owned. For your price range, it's a no brainer IMO.


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## Moooza (Jun 28, 2022)

The Commandante C40 is the standard for a hand grinder. It means you can share grind settings easily. But, it is a hand grinder so can be a bit annoying.


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## MarcelNL (Jul 14, 2022)

@LostHighway ; what did you ultimately do/get?


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## Nemo (Jul 14, 2022)

I've been happy with the Eureka Mingon Specialita (I use it for espresso, though). It is similar to Silenzia except it has slightly larger burrs (55 vs 50 mm) and a timer screen readout in seconds, rather than just a time adjustment dial (without a scale). Knowing what I know now, I think that the Silenzia would have been fine.

It's pretty quiet, which is handy first thing in the morning.


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## LostHighway (Jul 14, 2022)

MarcelNL said:


> @LostHighway ; what did you ultimately do/get?


I'm still attempting to repair the Baratza Virtuoso without damaging anything, but I've been drinking mostly cold coffee during the summer hot weather so the repair, if possible, isn't at the top of my priorities.
If I buy a new grinder the Fellow Ode is probably at the top of my list because it is quiet, small footprint, and an American company. I don't know if the grinder is actually made in America but the product support is apparently good. The downsides appear to be some production inconsistencies, an evolving burr set, and a not terribly robust motor (relevant primarily to large volumes or very fine grinds like espresso or Turkish). 
Baratza is another US based company although the grinders are not made in the USA. Their product support is very good but the grinders aren't particularly quiet. Larger footprint than the Ode.
The Eureka Mignon seems like more of a moderately priced espresso grinder. Reports suggest that most Mignon models won't grind coarse enough for some non-espresso applications (French Press, cold brew, maybe vacuum/siphon). The Mignon Filtro and Brew Pro seem like the Eureka models I'd be most interested in although the Brew Pro is really more than I'd prefer to spend. There is a Mignon Filtro Silent but no US retailer seems to stock it so far. Working through an importer as opposed to a US based company also has its pitfalls.


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## mengwong (Jul 14, 2022)

I got a Mazzer Super Jolly from a cafe going out of business. It towers over everything else in my kitchen.


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## coxhaus (Jul 14, 2022)

I bought a Baratza encore off this site used and it is amazing. I had no idea what a difference a grinder makes in the taste of coffee. We are now careful where we drink coffee out. It made such a difference in our coffee. A lot of places now taste off drinking their coffee. I mostly drink espresso out looking for the best.

I adjusted my coffee grinder to 19 and I use 17grams coffee and 270 grams of water. If I try to set the grinder at a lower number, it tends to get muddy. I use a lot of French dark roast coffee beans.


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## Nemo (Jul 14, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I adjusted my coffee grinder to 19 and I use 17grams coffee and 270 grams of water. If I try to set the grinder at a lower number, it tends to get muddy. I use a lot of French dark roast coffee beans.


Are you using an espresso machine, a stovetop or some kind of drip filter?


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## LostHighway (Jul 14, 2022)

deleted


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## MarcelNL (Jul 15, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I use 17grams coffee and 270 grams of water.


@Nemo that precludes an espresso machine. 17g for 270 ml correlates roughly with 55g per liter for pour over, my guess is pour over.


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## coxhaus (Jul 15, 2022)

Pour over. No espresso grinder. I have an old electric Italian espresso machine that was my mom's from way back. It does not compare to these high dollar machines talked about here. Here is my coffee station. Coffee cups lay down where wine bottles go.


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## timebard (Jul 16, 2022)

Shamelessly tagging on to this thread - anyone here have opinions on how substantial a difference grinder quality makes for Aeropress brewing? I use a Capresso Infinity burr grinder currently, it seems to work... fine? The build quality feels a bit lacking but for $90 I think it's okay. Mostly drink medium roasts on the nutty/chocolate-y/caramel-y side with a little milk. Use the Aeropress about 99% of the time since I'm the only coffee drinker in the house. I'm no connoisseur but I can make a cup I like better than most of my local coffee shops pretty consistently. No interest in getting into espresso.

Basically - would stepping up to a Baratza Encore, or one of the higher end ones mentioned here, make a strongly noticable difference in the end result for how I brew?


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## Lars (Jul 16, 2022)

timebard said:


> Shamelessly tagging on to this thread - anyone here have opinions on how substantial a difference grinder quality makes for Aeropress brewing? I use a Capresso Infinity burr grinder currently, it seems to work... fine? The build quality feels a bit lacking but for $90 I think it's okay. Mostly drink medium roasts on the nutty/chocolate-y/caramel-y side with a little milk. Use the Aeropress about 99% of the time since I'm the only coffee drinker in the house. I'm no connoisseur but I can make a cup I like better than most of my local coffee shops pretty consistently. No interest in getting into espresso.
> 
> Basically - would stepping up to a Baratza Encore, or one of the higher end ones mentioned here, make a strongly noticable difference in the end result for how I brew?


I'm not sure about the Encore. I'm no fan of the small conical burrs for pourover. But the Forte BG with flat steel burrs would most definitely make a big improvement in the cup.


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## LostHighway (Jul 16, 2022)

timebard said:


> Shamelessly tagging on to this thread - anyone here have opinions on how substantial a difference grinder quality makes for Aeropress brewing? I use a Capresso Infinity burr grinder currently, it seems to work... fine? The build quality feels a bit lacking but for $90 I think it's okay. Mostly drink medium roasts on the nutty/chocolate-y/caramel-y side with a little milk. Use the Aeropress about 99% of the time since I'm the only coffee drinker in the house. I'm no connoisseur but I can make a cup I like better than most of my local coffee shops pretty consistently. No interest in getting into espresso.
> 
> Basically - would stepping up to a Baratza Encore, or one of the higher end ones mentioned here, make a strongly noticable difference in the end result for how I brew?


I suspect you'd notice the difference but you're asking a question that really only you can answer.
I have a couple friends that own the Capresso. Both of them purchased it on my recommendation that it was the absolute minimum adequate grinder for pour over and I stand by that rating. Somewhat surprisingly I don't know anyone that owns the Baratza Encore and I've never used it. A properly adjusted Baratza Virtuoso or Virtuoso + should have much better grounds distribution than the Capresso. That is almost certainly true of the Eureka Mignon Filtro and the Fello Ode as well but I can't confirm that from personal experience.
The Ode with the 1.0 or 1.1 burrs may not grind fine enough for you depending on your Aeropress process. Supposedly there are 2.0 burrs coming this fall (???) which should address this or you can spend another ~$185 USD to buy the SSP burr set which will address it

Edit: If you aren't concerned with coarser grinds like French Press or cold brew I suspect the regular Mignon as opposed the Filtro might be the way to go but you'd have to ask one of their retailers.


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## coxhaus (Jul 16, 2022)

I also have to say I don't use tap water for coffee as it does not taste as good. You may have noticed my water bottle in my picture above. I tried a Reverse Osmosis system under my sink, and I did not think it tasted as good as bottled water. The reverse Osmosis system would only knock down the water a certain percentage. We have highly alkaline water where I live.


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## MarcelNL (Jul 17, 2022)

The aeropress IMO is more in the espresso territory in it's need for a grinder, something like a Super Jolly works great with its 64mm flat burrs (used SJ's can be found at around 100 bucks, get new burrs, clean it and give it a new lease of life, some are heavy used, some hardly, built like a tank). 

Water is a topic in itself, SCA has guidelines and there is a subforum on HB on water where the mod is quite an expert.


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## daddy yo yo (Jul 17, 2022)

About a year ago my gf and myself were considering getting a grinder. We carefully chose the Baratza Sette. I think it is good for both coarser and finer grains and has a couple of nice features which we liked. It won’t make you bankrupt, too. In the end, we didn’t buy one as I have a high-end equipment in my apt, and my gf and I chose to do pour-over coffee at her place with ground coffee as we found one available in small 250g quantities. If we had bought one, Baratza Sette it would have been!


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## Luftmensch (Jul 17, 2022)

LostHighway said:


> The question at hand is should I buy a new grinder and if so which one?





If you do not feel like your Baratza Viruoso lacked any features or capacity... Maybe not? It is a pretty good choice for the price range you are looking at. By and large alternate choices are likely to be a move sideways?? There could be some small features that change the balance for you. Or not! For example, I thought I would find timed grinding useful.... but I found single dosing better suited for my routine. So that feature ended up being an unnecessary cost and to some degree frustrating!

Subjectively decide how much you would be willing to spend on repairing your current grinder? See if that aligns with your sense of value... I bet you are a pretty handy guy... but I'll admit to being lazy and solving some problems with replacement rather than repair. Our free personal time has a value as well!

I have to say though... the Fellow Ode is a really sleek looking grinder. Apparently it's autostop feature is temperamental. That could get annoying... though... perhaps you can turn it off? For pour over, I have given this grinder serious thought....


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## timebard (Jul 17, 2022)

MarcelNL said:


> The aeropress IMO is more in the espresso territory in it's need for a grinder, something like a Super Jolly works great with its 64mm flat burrs (used SJ's can be found at around 100 bucks, get new burrs, clean it and give it a new lease of life, some are heavy used, some hardly, built like a tank).
> 
> Water is a topic in itself, SCA has guidelines and there is a subforum on HB on water where the mod is quite an expert.



Interesting that y'all are suggesting/assuming very fine espresso-like grind size for Aeropress brewing. I typically use about the 5th-6th finest settings out of 16 on my Capresso, depending on the beans, in line with the default "medium fine" recommendation. I haven't experimented much with the very fine end of the spectrum but will give it a try.

I like the used SJ idea but the lowest I see on the bay is about $425 shipped. Any recs on where to find one cheap?


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## MarcelNL (Jul 17, 2022)

I'm in the Netherlands, so nothing I recommend will work for you ;-) (shipping that lump of cast aluminum i expensive)
425 is a lot, I see them pop up for around 100-150 regularly but not daily, probably best to set an alert and have patience. I picked up one for 75, and a Fiorenzato 64mm for 125, both gifts for friends. Paid 350 for my Major.
Look through dirt and grime, just check wonky bearings when picking them up, you wil have to put in new burrs and invest lots of elbow grease, perhaps a motor capacitor but generally they last loooooong.


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## LostHighway (Jul 18, 2022)

Luftmensch said:


> If you do not feel like your Baratza Viruoso lacked any features or capacity... Maybe not? It is a pretty good choice for the price range you are looking at. By and large alternate choices are likely to be a move sideways?? There could be some small features that change the balance for you. Or not! For example, I thought I would find timed grinding useful.... but I found single dosing better suited for my routine. So that feature ended up being an unnecessary cost and to some degree frustrating!
> 
> Subjectively decide how much you would be willing to spend on repairing your current grinder? See if that aligns with your sense of value... I bet you are a pretty handy guy... but I'll admit to being lazy and solving some problems with replacement rather than repair. Our free personal time has a value as well!
> 
> I have to say though... the Fellow Ode is a really sleek looking grinder. Apparently it's autostop feature is temperamental. That could get annoying... though... perhaps you can turn it off? For pour over, I have given this grinder serious thought....


I'd probably be willing to spend up to $100 to get the Baratza back to full functionality assuming that didn't also include hours of frustration which remains to be seen. The Baraztas largest flaws are that it is noisy and not extremely solidly constructed. I'd love to see both the Eureka and the Ode at least partially broken down but based on burr replacement level views they both look more solidly constructed than the Virtuoso. 
I'm more materials and process focused than the vast majority of people when it comes to coffee. I've experimented with different water sources (tap, filtered, bottled), different grinds, measure temperature at the kettle (and in the past in the slurry, doesn't matter), don't reboil water or let it sit at 212F, and keep relatively good track of my ratios (weigh initially but then often go by volume once I've established the proper volume for a specific bean). All that said I mostly brew a liter carafe in the AM and only brew single cups now and again so I'm not a full on coffee geek. I do, however, have the apparatus for a bunch of different brewing methods.
I'm attracted to the design of the Ode and like the small footprint and relatively quiet grind. Their status as a recent start up seems to mean that they weren't too tied to traditional design decisions but it also means that they don't have as strong a manufacturing process background as Baratza or Eureka and in some ways the Ode remains a bit of a beta product.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2022)

Anybody tried the Gorilla burr replacements for the Ode? What did you think? That looks nice to me but we are up around $500. The other option would be the SSP burr replacements.

My Baratza Encore just keeps working. No issues no problems. We use it every day.


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## Luftmensch (Jul 18, 2022)

LostHighway said:


> I'd probably be willing to spend up to $100 to get the Baratza back to full functionality assuming that didn't also include hours of frustration which remains to be seen.



I guess at this point the Baratza is pretty much dead. You could see how much frustration might be involved by disassembling it before ordering parts. If the disassembly is easy and you don't break anything... you may be able to repair it within budget.




LostHighway said:


> The Baraztas largest flaws are that it is noisy and not extremely solidly constructed. I'd love to see both the Eureka and the Ode at least partially broken down but based on burr replacement level views they both look more solidly constructed than the Virtuoso.



I am just chin-waggin' here... but I think the last 10 years, in the coffee world, has seen increased interest in pushing the boundaries of filter coffee. It seems to me that prior to this wave, high-end grinders were designed for espresso. The espresso grinders from europe are solid chunks of metal - particularly if you get into cafe grade tools. Much of the design improvements here have been evolutionary (not revolutionary).

More recently, the community has realised that if you are only interested in filter coffee, you can potentially make better (less fines) and cheaper grinders. A part of this evolution is that these new grinders are smaller and appear less tank-like. All things being equal, I expect these lighter duty grinders to be less durable (simply because they are not over kill!). 




LostHighway said:


> I'm attracted to the design of the Ode and like the small footprint and relatively quiet grind. Their status as a recent start up seems to mean that they weren't too tied to traditional design decisions but it also means that they don't have as strong a manufacturing process background as Baratza or Eureka and in some ways the Ode remains a bit of a beta product.



At the end of the day, these are stupidly simple electro-mechanical devices. If they have no 'smarts' in them, they are just a motor with a switch!! They _ought_ to be easy to repair. I would be much more keen on the Fellow Ode if it was just an on/off device... it would be very easy to repair. That would increase my confidence in the product. Still; it is on my list.....


If you want bullet-proof-almost-last-forever... it is hard to go past @Moooza's recommendation:



Moooza said:


> The Commandante C40



... but I think I would prefer electric!!



Addendum: I have neglected to recommend the chinese generic grinders... eg. the ghost burr grinders and the DF64... the community is pretty interested in these because they offer good value out of the box. Their build quality leaves much to desired... but I think they appeal to those who like to mod and tinker...


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## coxhaus (Jul 19, 2022)

I would think before you go crazy on grinders you would need to condition your water otherwise you are wasting your money. More than likely you need to take out minerals and maybe adjust the PH of the water. If you are one of the lucky few to where you need to add minerals so be it.


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## MarcelNL (Jul 19, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I would think before you go crazy on grinders you would need to condition your water otherwise you are wasting your money. More than likely you need to take out minerals and maybe adjust the PH of the water. If you are one of the lucky few to where you need to add minerals so be it.


you really neeed to do both...especially for espresso. for pour over it's probably easier to find bottled water acc to the SCA recommendations than for espresso.

thumbs up for SSP burrs....(in the Mazzer Major)


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## JBroida (Jul 19, 2022)

DF64 has been my move for aeropress, pourover, cold brew (kyoto style drip), and espresso


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## simar (Jul 19, 2022)

I have had a fellow ode since the preorder and its been amazing on the counter. But I love the Lagom P64 for espresso.


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## Luftmensch (Jul 20, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> I would think before you go crazy on grinders you would need to condition your water otherwise you are wasting your money. More than likely you need to take out minerals and maybe adjust the PH of the water. If you are one of the lucky few to where you need to add minerals so be it.





MarcelNL said:


> you really neeed to do both...especially for espresso. for pour over it's probably easier to find bottled water acc to the SCA recommendations than for espresso.



I respectfully disagree! "Need" is in the eye of the beholder.

I wouldn't belittle anyone who pursued that degree of control. On the other hand, for many people it is more than they are willing to do, just to enjoy a cup of tea/coffee. Unless your municipal water is genuinely unpalatable, many people will be happy treating it as a background constant. All households I know drink water from the tap... make tea with it... boil rice and pasta in it... brush their teeth in it... and you guessed it... make coffee with it! Similarly, I am yet to see a cafe that isnt 'plumbed in'. While I am sure they have filters on the mains, I haven't been to a cafe that fiddles with the minerals or uses bottled water.

Again; this observation is not meant to invalidate anybody's experience... but I believe curating the water is something you do if your water is terrible or you are deep, deep into the hobby. In other words, I believe, making decent equipment decisions is a more primary concern for most people most of the time!!


[Edit: I am willing to accept that the places I have lived, have unusually 'good' water for capital cities. But that would surprise me!!]


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## MarcelNL (Jul 20, 2022)

You may of course disagree, nobody HAS to follow that advice. It's just that descaling an espresso machine is much harder on it's life span than the hassle of preparing suitable water as it eats away metal. I'm using a 70 year old espresso machine, finding a new boiler is near impossible, the cost of replacing a boiler is approx 25-35% of list price for new machines. Adding a bit of Potassium (or Sodium) Bicarb to buffer against acidity eating the metal away also pays off on the long run, and it prevents lead being bleached out of the brass in older machines.
For newer machines, if you already need to prevent lime scale why not adjust the water to make the maximum out of the taste?

The tap water being capable of making good espresso is not the only thing to consider for espresso.

The cafe's you're in usually have quite elaborate water treatment plants hidden under the counter, so no you do not see them fiddle with bottles since they most of all benefit from continuous supply of suitable water or 'plumbing in' (for a cafe the interruption of sales due to sending a machine for repair , getting a mechanic in @$100/hr more costly than water treatment) ;-)

For pour over things are not that critical, neither is the influence of the water on the prepared beverage as that is watery anyhow ;-)


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## LostHighway (Jul 20, 2022)

I've done more experimentation with water properties for beer brewing than for coffee. IME demineralized water like distilled or reverse osmosis is not optimal for flavor although I suppose it might be optimal for minimizing espresso machine plumbing maintenance. I've lived with both private well water and urban water supply systems. pH values have ranged from about 6.7 to 9.5 (many US municipalities raise the pH of their drinking to reduce the risk of lead contamination from old pipes). I have certainly visited places in the US that had fairly foul tasting (and sometimes smelling) tap water but these tend to be the exception rather than general rule. Health related contaminants are sort of a separate issue, be it arsenic, lead, radionuclides, nitrates, PFAS, coliform bacteria, or any of the myriad of less widely distributed contaminants from mining, industrial activity, or agriculture. Broadly speaking I'm with @Luftmensch on this topic at least for pour over coffee. Tap water or tap water treated with relatively simple filtration systems is generally adequate unless you live in one of the areas with truly terrible water.. If you are really determined to go all the way down the rabbit hole A) get your water tested as a first step so you know where you're starting from and B) read The SCA Water Quality Handbook and Water for Coffee.


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## Luftmensch (Jul 20, 2022)

MarcelNL said:


> The cafe's you're in usually have quite elaborate water treatment plants hidden under the counter, so no you do not see them fiddle with bottles since they most of all benefit from continuous supply of suitable water or 'plumbing in' (for a cafe the interruption of sales due to sending a machine for repair , getting a mechanic in @$100/hr more costly than water treatment) ;-)



Absolutely!

In Sydney, I believe the primary reason is asset protection. Exactly like you say... you want the "up time" of the machine to be as high as possible. Replacing the water filter (~$100) every 6-12 months is cheap insurance to keep trouble away. Taste may be an auxiliary benefit. We probably have 10 cafes that exist to punch out a morning and lunchtime workload for every boutique cafe that has put serious thought into their taste profile. It is clear who is thinking about what (not meaning to cast judgement either way - both are useful business models).

I might consider filtering if my coffee machine was >$10K. Since Sydney has soft water, descaling is not a massive concern. Though I will admit... I am a little uneasy about my boiler having brass end caps 




MarcelNL said:


> For pour over things are not that critical, neither is the influence of the water on the prepared beverage as that is watery anyhow ;-)



Pour over being the theme of this thread! 

I remain interested in the recommendations. We purchased a v60 kit at the beginning of the year but are using it less than expected. But that is my fault. I really dislike using our grinder for _both_ espresso and pour-over. Changing it back and forth is really irritating once the espresso is dialed in.

I am close to commiting to the Fellow Ode but am having a difficult time justifying the cost (in addition to our other grinder). The next step for me mostly depends on how dissatisfied my partner is about my lack of action on this purchase


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## MarcelNL (Jul 20, 2022)

Testing the actual water used is the start, luckily your water supply company does that for you...usually their website shows the avg water composition allowing you to sit back and sip a coffee or that you should start thinking about doing something.

From what I read the Ode gets a lot of good feedback, to be honest at roughly 300e it probably is probably a great buy for getting 64mm flat burrs.


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## LostHighway (Jul 20, 2022)

Luftmensch said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> In Sydney, I believe the primary reason is asset protection. Exactly like you say... you want the "up time" of the machine to be as high as possible. Replacing the water filter (~$100) every 6-12 months is cheap insurance to keep trouble away. Taste may be an auxiliary benefit. We probably have 10 cafes that exist to punch out a morning and lunchtime workload for every boutique cafe that has put serious thought into their taste profile. It is clear who is thinking about what (not meaning to cast judgement either way - both are useful business models).
> 
> ...


My advice would be to drag your feet on the Ode purchase as long as possible. The 1.01 burr set apparently grinds only marginally finer than the 1.0 set which still places it on the cusp of not fine enough for the V60 or the AeroPress (depending on beans, methodology, and personal taste). In theory the Ode should start shipping with the 2.0 burrs in another month or two. Of course you can always buy a SSP burr set.
The stepped adjustment dial (goes up to 11!) is a bit oddly configured as almost any kind of pour over or AeroPress is going to use only the ≤3 settings. Personally I would have been less accommodating of cold process and French Press and made the steps finer for pour over.
I don't know whether Back Friday/Cyber Monday are as big a thing in Oz as they are in the USA but the discounts direct from Fellow were substantial in 2021.


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## Nemo (Jul 20, 2022)

LostHighway said:


> The stepped adjustment dial (goes up to 11!) is a bit oddly configured ....


Designed by a Spinal Tap fan?


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## LostHighway (Jul 20, 2022)

Nemo said:


> Designed by a Spinal Tap fan?


I think we have to assume so


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## Luftmensch (Jul 21, 2022)

LostHighway said:


> In theory the Ode should start shipping with the 2.0 burrs in another month or two. Of course you can always buy a SSP burr set.
> The stepped adjustment dial (goes up to 11!) is a bit oddly configured as almost any kind of pour over or AeroPress is going to use only the ≤3 settings. Personally I would have been less accommodating of cold process and French Press and made the steps finer for pour over.



Some very recent chatter from a Fellow employee about the new burrs is on home-barista. In a later post he talks about the design process - an ungenerous interpretation of his post confirms your concerns. The company is very young and is being run by passionate enthusiasts. It is not necessary supported by people with deep knowledge of the tech and industry. A more generous interpretation of the post is that Fellow have staff who are passionate about their product, customers and coffee! They are learning quickly and eager to make a good product!

I look forward to seeing what customers say about the new burr set. For now all I know is that a guy called "nicholasnumbers" - who is self described as "not a burr designing expert" - reengineered the burrs to provide "more of an 'all around' unimodal burr with a spread". I dont intend to be disparaging. That is a pretty amazing effort! I am sure he is far more in tune with his coffee than I am. Yet the new design will be based on his preferences and it has not been market tested yet.




LostHighway said:


> I don't know whether Back Friday/Cyber Monday are as big a thing in Oz as they are in the USA but the discounts direct from Fellow were substantial in 2021.



Traditionally; no. But globalisation and cultural flattening is seeing it become more of a "thing". Particularly in the last two years when a lot of people were doing online shopping out of boredom!


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## Choppin (Jul 21, 2022)

I really like my Wilfa Svart grinder. It's basically an Euro Baratza Encore competitor. Small, quiet, enough capacity for around 100g at a time, easy to clean, beautiful and sturdy. Bought it like 5 years ago and have been using it everyday since.

Probably not the most practical option for non-EU folks as it costs the same as the Encore (excl. shipping), but I thought it was worth sharing.


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## Choppin (Jul 21, 2022)

JBroida said:


> DF64 has been my move for aeropress, pourover, cold brew (kyoto style drip), and espresso


I like the small footprint, seems like a good option.


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## WilliamDallas (Jul 23, 2022)

MarcelNL said:


> Or watch a couple of James Hoffmann video reviews on YT, I find his reviews are pretty good.


I second this, very interesting channel.


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## LostHighway (Oct 18, 2022)

I finally did buy the Fellow Ode (refurbs currently available from Fellow for $224 and new units were recently on sale from the evil South American river for about the same amount). My preliminary observations are that it is very quiet (much quieter than the Baratza Virtuoso), relatively quick, and that so-far I've experienced only very minor grounds retention and no jamming. I haven't ventured any disassembly yet but it has a good heft and seems well built. With the stock burrs it grinds fine enough for Melitta, Chemex, or a Kalita 185. I haven't tried AeroPress or the V60 yet. The only potential downside at this early juncture is that Fellow product support is terrible relative to Baratza. If it fails within the one-year warranty period they replace your grinder with a new one but once out of that period you are effectively s.o.l. At the moment they are giving you a ten percent discount on a new one for out of warranty failures. You can buy replacement burrs but no other parts and they do not appear to have a service department or any DIY repair support. Baratza, by contrast, stocks almost any part you could possibly need at reasonable prices and does have a very helpful service department, at least in North America. They also have a reputation for being somewhat flexible with regards to charging for out of warranty work in borderline cases.
Once the burrs (stock) are a bit more worn in I'll report on grounds distribution but it appears that it may be better than the Virtuoso. This is not a grinder for espresso or Turkish even though it may grind fine enough with the SSP burrs, the motor just isn't built for it, nor is a grinder for high volumes (numerous liters per day).


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## WildBoar (Oct 18, 2022)

timebard said:


> I like the used SJ idea but the lowest I see on the bay is about $425 shipped. Any recs on where to find one cheap?


My experience is similar to yours. Here in the US you will not find a used one for anything close to $100.


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## Ant4d (Oct 19, 2022)

LostHighway said:


> My venerable Baratza Viruoso grinder (with upgraded burrs) jammed this morning. Normally this isn't a huge problem but this time he hopper won't turn so I can't remove it and no amount to tapping and coaxing has helped. I will put in an advice request to Baratza, they're very good about support, but I fear that addressing this is going to mean destroying some plastic parts (replacements available through Baratza).
> The question at hand is should I buy a new grinder and if so which one? Before anyone suggests small capacity hand grinders I should note that the first thing in the morning drill, if I'm having coffee as opposed to tea, is to brew a liter of coffee for the household. I need to be able to grind 55 - 65 g relatively quickly while half awake.
> An unusually fast and large capacity hand grinder might be an option but I can't think of one off hand. I'm also not willing to spend a small fortune on a grinder so I'm mostly shopping in the $250 - $400 US realm. The grinder must have enough adjustment range to handle anything from French Press to V60, I don't care about espresso or Turkish, with a decent degree of precision. The Fellow Ode and the Baratza Virtuoso + immediately come to mind but I'm open to other suggestions. Product support definitely matters which excludes most PRC made grinders. Advice comrades?


If you want a grinder that will last and last and easy to get replacement Burrs . You should look at Mazzer Coffee grinders from Italy. They make domestic versions ( Mazzer Mini) and there are thousands of them for sale second hand. Even a small commercial is good for home. The better the grind the better the coffee.


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## tcmx3 (Oct 20, 2022)

LostHighway said:


> I finally did buy the Fellow Ode (refurbs currently available from Fellow for $224 and new units were recently on sale from the evil South American river for about the same amount). My preliminary observations are that it is very quiet (much quieter than the Baratza Virtuoso), relatively quick, and that so-far I've experienced only very minor grounds retention and no jamming. I haven't ventured any disassembly yet but it has a good heft and seems well built. With the stock burrs it grinds fine enough for Melitta, Chemex, or a Kalita 185. I haven't tried AeroPress or the V60 yet. The only potential downside at this early juncture is that Fellow product support is terrible relative to Baratza. If it fails within the one-year warranty period they replace your grinder with a new one but once out of that period you are effectively s.o.l. At the moment they are giving you a ten percent discount on a new one for out of warranty failures. You can buy replacement burrs but no other parts and they do not appear to have a service department or any DIY repair support. Baratza, by contrast, stocks almost any part you could possibly need at reasonable prices and does have a very helpful service department, at least in North America. They also have a reputation for being somewhat flexible with regards to charging for out of warranty work in borderline cases.
> Once the burrs (stock) are a bit more worn in I'll report on grounds distribution but it appears that it may be better than the Virtuoso. This is not a grinder for espresso or Turkish even though it may grind fine enough with the SSP burrs, the motor just isn't built for it, nor is a grinder for high volumes (numerous liters per day).



good choice, warranty aside.

I actually replaced my Forte BG with an Ode with SSP burrs and I think the Ode's cup quality is really high despite the low price. It's not as convenient being a single doser, but I love the results.

I have been really favoring Lance Hedrick's v60 recipe with this grinder, just super good, super consistent results. 

My friend scored a monolith of which I am jealous, but I don't have the patience to chase the drops, and for that kind of money personally I have a bigger weakness for guitars.


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## Rangen (Oct 20, 2022)

Ant4d said:


> If you want a grinder that will last and last and easy to get replacement Burrs . You should look at Mazzer Coffee grinders from Italy. They make domestic versions ( Mazzer Mini) and there are thousands of them for sale second hand. Even a small commercial is good for home. The better the grind the better the coffee.


The Mazzer Mini is great. It's my espresso grinder. It's not exactly mini, and it seems aimed more at cafes then the home, but it is a seriously awesome grinder that will outlive me, I'm sure.


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## Rangen (Oct 21, 2022)

I should say that I would probably just get another Virtuoso. That's what I use for non-espresso. I'm on my second; the first lasted through 10 years of daily use. Uniformity of grind on French Press settings (I use 31), and the easy availability of parts and helpful instructions from Baratza have made me very loyal to this brand.


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## coxhaus (Oct 21, 2022)

Do you think I would notice the difference in a Virtuoso vs Encore doing a pour over? Maybe sideways move?


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## Rangen (Oct 21, 2022)

coxhaus said:


> Do you think I would notice the difference in a Virtuoso vs Encore doing a pour over? Maybe sideways move?


No idea. I've never used the Encore, and I'm not sure what the differences are. Motor and burr, maybe? I think I'd look around for people's experiences.

With French Press, it is amazing to me just how important uniform particle size is, to the final experience, but I don't know whether that's as true for pour overs, nor whether the Encore delivers a less uniform particle size.


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## blokey (Oct 22, 2022)

I got the Commandante C40 when it is still reasonably priced...Now it cost almost double the amount I pay, and the company is really being a dick to their competitors. That said tho it is an excellent pour over grinder, better than most electric at similar price range. I grind 20g-30g at most in one setting, but if you are grinding for a large machine then go electric.


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