# What exactly is an 'S' grind?



## Mangelwurzel (Oct 31, 2014)

Hey folks,

I've seen the term 'S grind' thrown around on here quite a lot. Until recently, I thought I understood what it meant but now I'm not so sure.

I thought it was shorthand for Sabre or Scandi grind, as in the grind you get on Heiji and Shigefusa knives. But in Matus' recent Haburn review (great review by the way, Matus), there was a reference a combination of hollow grind behind the edge and convex grind higher up the blade being an 'S' grind. I know that Ian has been using this combination grind on quite a few of his knives recently. I guess I can see the logic to calling this type of grind 'S' because that's what the shape looks like when the knife is lying flat.

So what exactly is an 'S grind' as used on this forum? In particular, does anybody know exactly what Marko's S grind is?

Thanks!


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## TB_London (Oct 31, 2014)

Slight hollow from spine to mid point then convex from mid point to edge, intended to give better food release without being a mighty knife.

Non kurouchi Shigs display this, also Takeda have a similar geometry but with the hollow forged rather than ground in.


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## Mangelwurzel (Oct 31, 2014)

TB_London said:


> Slight hollow from spine to mid point then convex from mid point to edge, intended to give better food release without being a mighty knife.
> 
> Non kurouchi Shigs display this, also Takeda have a similar geometry but with the hollow forged rather than ground in.



Thanks Tom. So kind of as I first thought (but hollow instead of straight from spine to mid-point).

P.s. your inbox is full. I tried replying to your message the other day. Enjoy your trip!


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## panda (Oct 31, 2014)

Anyone know what other knives have forged hollow in the middle?


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## Salty dog (Oct 31, 2014)

More than you think. I've seen it on a vintage Dexter, a Kramer and others.


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## mkriggen (Oct 31, 2014)

Marko also uses an S grind I believe.


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## mhlee (Oct 31, 2014)

What Matus is referring to is more like a reverse "S" than an "S" grind. What Tom is describing is what is generally considered to be an "S" grind. 

Carter is another maker who makes knives with "S" grinds. That's why some of his knives are very thin at the spine - they're concave from the middle of the face of the blade to the spine.


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## Matus (Oct 31, 2014)

Reversed S grind could indeed be the name for the one on my Habyrn gyuto.


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## Mangelwurzel (Oct 31, 2014)

I guess both grinds give the blade an 'S' side and a reverse 'S' on them!

Does anyone know what Marko's S grind looks like?


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## JBroida (Oct 31, 2014)

panda said:


> Anyone know what other knives have forged hollow in the middle?



kochi is one example


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## x737 (Nov 1, 2014)

Am I right to believe that it makes the knife flex way less while keeping it thin? Flex wise, imho, it should be almost as strong as a thick knife with a thickness equal to the overall thickness of the "S".


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## labor of love (Nov 1, 2014)

JBroida said:


> kochi is one example



Jon's description of Kochi grinds are pretty cool in his Kochi video. Its worth watching.


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## Timthebeaver (Nov 2, 2014)

It's the flavour of the month.


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## XooMG (Nov 2, 2014)

JBroida said:


> kochi is one example


Does that include the SS nashiji models?


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## JBroida (Nov 2, 2014)

yes


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## mhlee (Nov 4, 2014)

Timthebeaver said:


> It's the flavour of the month.



It think it's the flavor of the month for newbies who are now coming across this type of grind because of Marko. 

I came across "s-grind" knives years ago and I think that smart, experienced knife owners who have bought and used knives from numerous makers have come across this type of grind previously and understand that a type of grind does not make a great cutting knife; the knife has to be ground _properly_. 

Over the years, I've seen a tendency for many users to try and generalize how a certain characteristic translates to similar performance among different knives. From what I've experienced, this is a lazy way of going about trying to understand how a knife performs; there is no substitute for getting a knife and cutting with it. No two knives that are handmade, whether forged, shaped, or ground, are exactly the same. There are minute differences, which can translate to very different cutting performance.


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## Timthebeaver (Nov 4, 2014)

mhlee said:


> It think it's the flavor of the month for newbies who are now coming across this type of grind because of Marko.
> 
> I came across "s-grind" knives years ago and I think that smart, experienced knife owners who have bought and used knives from numerous makers have come across this type of grind previously and understand that a type of grind does not make a great cutting knife; the knife has to be ground _properly_.
> 
> Over the years, I've seen a tendency for many users to try and generalize how a certain characteristic translates to similar performance among different knives. From what I've experienced, this is a lazy way of going about trying to understand how a knife performs; there is no substitute for getting a knife and cutting with it. No two knives that are handmade, whether forged, shaped, or ground, are exactly the same. There are minute differences, which can translate to very different cutting performance.



all of this.


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## Matus (Nov 4, 2014)

Timthebeaver said:


> all of this.



+1


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