# Pot Roast...a bit of comfort food...



## Zwiefel (Nov 8, 2014)

Flour, crushed red chile, black pepper, and garlic powder for dredging.






Dredge and brown on all 6 sides.





3lbs yellow onions, and some shameless watanabe porn.





2 bunches celery, split lengthwise and chopped...immediately following this photo...not used to doing all my own photos yet. 





10 lbs red potatoes, quartered...in just a sec...





Caramelize onions.





Assemble roast, celery, and onions in pan.





cover with potatoes.





Make slightly browned roux with leftover dredging flour.





rubbed thyme and more red pepper.





Worcestershire for umami. Add about a quart of chicken stock, then cover with foil and into the oven at 280F for 6 hours. The house smells amazing about 45 minutes into it.





I like to serve this in a bowl with a spoon. No fork nor knife needed, and spoon helps to round up that unctuous sauce.


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## larrybard (Nov 8, 2014)

Looks delicious. What was the approximate weight of the meat? Boneless chuck?


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## Zwiefel (Nov 8, 2014)

larrybard said:


> Looks delicious. What was the approximate weight of the meat? Boneless chuck?



two 3lb English Chuck Roasts. That pan weighs about 22 lbs going into the oven. I can get at least 3 meals out of it!


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## Mucho Bocho (Nov 8, 2014)

Beautiful photos Danny. I can almost taste it


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## bear1889 (Nov 8, 2014)

My favorite, looks good.


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## 99Limited (Nov 9, 2014)

Can I come to your house for dinner??? :hungry3:

I do have a question. Do the potatoes hold up being in the oven for so long or have they gotten pretty fragile?


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## Zwiefel (Nov 9, 2014)

99Limited said:


> Can I come to your house for dinner??? :hungry3:
> 
> I do have a question. Do the potatoes hold up being in the oven for so long or have they gotten pretty fragile?



They are definitely soft, but not falling apart, even with handling needed for service. You really need a waxy type potato for this, I like red as they are inexpensive and widely available...but Yukon Gold would probably work. Don't even think about Idaho or Russett...or anything labeled "baker."

By putting the, on top, I get a range of textures as well.


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## brianh (Nov 9, 2014)

WANT.


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## Bill13 (Nov 9, 2014)

I'm salivating! Really nice photos too.


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## stereo.pete (Nov 9, 2014)

Wicked, I will be trying this as well!


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## mr drinky (Nov 9, 2014)

Nice. Very nice. 

I suck at roasts. I really do. I've made a dozen or so and they always suck IMO. I'm roast handicapped. Pictures like this make me feel bad about myself. 

Good job Z.

k.


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## larrybard (Nov 9, 2014)

I love pot roast with potatoes. One of all time favorite comfort meals. But is such a high ratio of potatoes (and onions) to meat customary? Was a bit surprised to see 10 lbs. of potatoes and 3 lbs. of onions with 6 lbs. of meat.


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## Zwiefel (Nov 9, 2014)

Im quite fond of the taters in this dish..plus, reducing my red meat consumption isn't a bad thing. We are kind of meat obsessed in America.


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## chinacats (Nov 9, 2014)

Zwiefel said:


> Im quite fond of the taters in this dish..plus, reducing my red meat consumption isn't a bad thing. We are kind of meat obsessed in America.



That's an understatement...dish looked great btw.


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## Lexington Jim (Nov 10, 2014)

"The only thing better than meat and potatoes is meat and meat" :happymug:

But seriously, I'm going to add this recipe to my collection. Thanks.


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## boomchakabowwow (Nov 10, 2014)

wow!! 

my mom kinda ruined pot roast for me..but i'm working on it. hahah..your pics help.


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## DDPslice (Nov 13, 2014)

Would you ever brine your roasts? Ive been on a brining spree and have been soaking everything for at least 12 hours lately.

Great pics, needs more knife porn please


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## Zwiefel (Nov 13, 2014)

DDPslice said:


> Would you ever brine your roasts? Ive been on a brining spree and have been soaking everything for at least 12 hours lately.
> 
> Great pics, needs more knife porn please



I'm not aware that anyone brines beef...thought there is a salt rub/rest technique I've seen used for true roasts (this is technically a braise).

more knife porn, check!


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## DDPslice (Nov 13, 2014)

Why not brine? I soak steaks in a ginger brine, a lot of spanish cultures marinade or brine flank steaks and such.


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## Mrmnms (Nov 13, 2014)

Marinating a flank steak or other piece of meat before grilling for a particular flavor makes sense. Unless your planning on corning or curing, the flavor and texture of beef will not benefit from brining. Then there's the juices that make the gravy. Too much salt drawn out. Pot roast is not corned beef. Each to his own however, you're cooking for your own tastes.


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## DDPslice (Nov 13, 2014)

I agree with you Mr.M but why is it when we brine the steaks or chicken before grilling the meat is juicier and not drier? But with the roast it'll draw out too much water.


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## Mrmnms (Nov 13, 2014)

Length of cook time for starters. A few minutes on the grill, or a few hours (or days if you're Dennis) if you're braising. Also most beef has some degree of fat marbling that breaks down ( along with collegen in some cuts best braised), poultry and most modern pork does not. I love a good marinade, but more for flavor than moisture. Btw, this pot roast here looks perfect. Just sayin


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## DDPslice (Nov 14, 2014)

Yup I agree thanks for explaining


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## Zwiefel (Nov 14, 2014)

The "salt rub" technique for beef has many of the benefits of brining, but won't alter the texture of the beef nearly so much. a cured texture ain't sexy in a pot roast 

VERY sexy in pastrami though....


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## DaninMD (Nov 14, 2014)

DDPslice said:


> Why not brine? I soak steaks in a ginger brine, a lot of spanish cultures marinade or brine flank steaks and such.



marinades, yes...help flavors, etc. i think you are confusing marinating and brining. brining uses osmotic pressure from a salty liquid to force moisture into the meat thru the membranes. Marinading is just trying to get flavors.


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## DaninMD (Nov 14, 2014)

BTW, this inspired me to cook a pot roast this weekend, going to try your method. looks good.


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## Zwiefel (Nov 14, 2014)

DaninMD said:


> marinades, yes...help flavors, etc. i think you are confusing marinating and brining. brining uses osmotic pressure from a salty liquid to force moisture into the meat thru the membranes. Marinading is just trying to get flavors.



The process is a bit different, but the salt rub technique uses osmosis as well.



DaninMD said:


> BTW, this inspired me to cook a pot roast this weekend, going to try your method. looks good.



Pics or it didn't happen!


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## DDPslice (Nov 14, 2014)

Guys i thunk we're a little confused, by rubbing salt or creating an isotonic solution you will be extracting water from the lesser ionic object or solution dehydrating rather than hydrating. The meat becomes juicier from removing the liquid from with the cells to flowing inbetween them (the cells).

Also because the salt and water content is significantly more apparent in my solution I call it a brine regardless if i've added one ore two different ingredients. Where i consider a marinade more closely with a solution that is more to a lotion or paste consistency and significantly less salt and significantly more of other ingredients mainly a sugar which i believe tends to strengthen muscle fibers while breaking down fascia (fat). Though osmotic pressure doesnt come into play here because it is not pressure of a higher gradient or gravity that is creating the force but rather the pull cause from the salt content and the need to move to equilibrium from a less isotonic (saltier) solution to more isotonic solution (ie what happens when you stay in the pool or the ocean for some time your skin starts to wrinkle. Water is leaving your less salt body and trying to equalize the saltier water.)


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## Zwiefel (Nov 14, 2014)

DDPslice said:


> Guys i thunk we're a little confused, by rubbing salt or creating an isotonic solution you will be extracting water from the lesser ionic object or solution dehydrating rather than hydrating. The meat becomes juicier from removing the liquid from with the cells to flowing inbetween them (the cells).
> 
> Also because the salt and water content is significantly more apparent in my solution I call it a brine regardless if i've added one ore two different ingredients. Where i consider a marinade more closely with a solution that is more to a lotion or paste consistency and significantly less salt and significantly more of other ingredients mainly a sugar which i believe tends to strengthen muscle fibers while breaking down fascia (fat). Though osmotic pressure doesnt come into play here because it is not pressure of a higher gradient or gravity that is creating the force but rather the pull cause from the salt content and the need to move to equilibrium from a less isotonic (saltier) solution to more isotonic solution (ie what happens when you stay in the pool or the ocean for some time your skin starts to wrinkle. Water is leaving your less salt body and trying to equalize the saltier water.)



Two things happen with both brining and salt rubs...yes, initially water is drawn out of the cells...but then the water is drawn back in, carrying salt with it. In the case of brining, it also takes additional water which increases the weight of the meat. You have to allow the correct time and conditions for this process to complete. In the case of salt rubs, you need to wrap the meat somehow to prevent the water from running off, and you may need to rotate the meat periodically as well.


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## DaninMD (Nov 17, 2014)

BTW, i made the roast yesterday and it was superb. Made a few changes because i just cant follow a recipe tick for tack. added some red wine to deglaze the onions at the end and added some carrots as well. was really really good. hadnt made a roast in a long time


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## DaninMD (Nov 17, 2014)

DDPslice said:


> Guys i thunk we're a little confused, by rubbing salt or creating an isotonic solution you will be extracting water from the lesser ionic object or solution dehydrating rather than hydrating. The meat becomes juicier from removing the liquid from with the cells to flowing inbetween them (the cells).
> 
> Also because the salt and water content is significantly more apparent in my solution I call it a brine regardless if i've added one ore two different ingredients. Where i consider a marinade more closely with a solution that is more to a lotion or paste consistency and significantly less salt and significantly more of other ingredients mainly a sugar which i believe tends to strengthen muscle fibers while breaking down fascia (fat). Though osmotic pressure doesnt come into play here because it is not pressure of a higher gradient or gravity that is creating the force but rather the pull cause from the salt content and the need to move to equilibrium from a less isotonic (saltier) solution to more isotonic solution (ie what happens when you stay in the pool or the ocean for some time your skin starts to wrinkle. Water is leaving your less salt body and trying to equalize the saltier water.)



i dont want to get into a science argument here but you are incorrect.

your fingers get wrinkled because your skin is taking on water, not losing it. it appears wrinkled because the outer layer is attached to your living tissues underneath and it creates wrinkles.

You have it backwards. equilibrium happens via areas of high pressure/concentration flowing to low pressure/concentration. not the the other way around. this is why meats that have been brined will be saltier.


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## Zwiefel (Nov 17, 2014)

DaninMD said:


> BTW, i made the roast yesterday and it was superb. Made a few changes because i just cant follow a recipe tick for tack. added some red wine to deglaze the onions at the end and added some carrots as well. was really really good. hadnt made a roast in a long time



Awesome! Isn't it amazingly tender after that low-n-slow cooking? I literally "cut" mine with a wooden spoon in order to portion for service.

Sometimes I deglaze, sometimes not...stock, wine, beer...whatever is handy--which usually means whatever is in my glass.


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## Burl Source (Nov 17, 2014)

I made a pot roast following your directions the other day. At least pretty close.
I forgot the thyme and the rue. Added baby carrots.
Everyone loved it. There was enough for 2 meals and everyone wanted it the 2nd night as well.
Not a bit was wasted. Even the last of the stock was drank like a cup of spicy bullion. I added a bit of extra red pepper so my roast might have been a bit spicier than yours. Here are some bad cell phone photos.


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## Zwiefel (Nov 17, 2014)

Nice work Mark! Love that you threw in a bit of nakiri porn too. 



Burl Source said:


> I made a pot roast following your directions the other day. At least pretty close.
> I forgot the thyme and the rue. Added baby carrots.
> Everyone loved it. There was enough for 2 meals and everyone wanted it the 2nd night as well.
> Not a bit was wasted. Even the last of the stock was drank like a cup of spicy bullion. I added a bit of extra red pepper so my roast might have been a bit spicier than yours. Here are some bad cell phone photos.


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## DaninMD (Nov 17, 2014)

Zwiefel said:


> Awesome! Isn't it amazingly tender after that low-n-slow cooking? I literally "cut" mine with a wooden spoon in order to portion for service.
> 
> Sometimes I deglaze, sometimes not...stock, wine, beer...whatever is handy--which usually means whatever is in my glass.



yep, i ate it with a spoon, just pulled off bits of beefy deliciousness. i changed up the spices a little bit (less red pepper) as the wife cant handle any spice at all. had leftovers for lunch today!


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## daveb (Nov 17, 2014)

Guess I'm going shopping. It got down into the 50's today and that roast looks good and warm.


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## Burl Source (Nov 17, 2014)

Zwiefel said:


> Nice work Mark! Love that you threw in a bit of nakiri porn too.



I love my Harner Nakiri!
Looks great and cuts even better than it looks.


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## DDPslice (Nov 17, 2014)

DaninMD said:


> i dont want to get into a science argument here but you are incorrect.
> 
> your fingers get wrinkled because your skin is taking on water, not losing it. it appears wrinkled because the outer layer is attached to your living tissues underneath and it creates wrinkles.
> 
> You have it backwards. equilibrium happens via areas of high pressure/concentration flowing to low pressure/concentration. not the the other way around. this is why meats that have been brined will be saltier.



https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwa1j-dlUS25c2ZHZmhELXFBaHRRUDA1c0V1Z0dZVDZQakhn/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwa1j-dlUS25MjBjQmg4VWNpWFFYUDZjMHFRLVQ4aGsxMGhJ/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwa1j-dlUS25eG90LURuUUVldk04VTdtb1dLWlpDdF9qdExJ/view?usp=sharing

Z, i will look for links describing the process of salt breaking down fat and dehydrates those and other cells, so the salty solution can inhabit small crevices created by the dehydrated cells, not reabsorbed through the cell membranes. It's a small difference and im not sure if it merits more deliberation but this small difference is the reason why that meat slab is not still living and that it's actually "dead" when you are rubbing it down.


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## Zwiefel (Nov 17, 2014)

DDPslice said:


> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwa1j-dlUS25c2ZHZmhELXFBaHRRUDA1c0V1Z0dZVDZQakhn/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwa1j-dlUS25MjBjQmg4VWNpWFFYUDZjMHFRLVQ4aGsxMGhJ/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwa1j-dlUS25eG90LURuUUVldk04VTdtb1dLWlpDdF9qdExJ/view?usp=sharing
> 
> Z, i will look for links describing the process of salt breaking down fat and dehydrates those and other cells, so the salty solution can inhabit small crevices created by the dehydrated cells, not reabsorbed through the cell membranes. It's a small difference and im not sure if it merits more deliberation but this small difference is the reason why that meat slab is not still living and that it's actually "dead" when you are rubbing it down.



Interesting. Looks like I need to do some digging into this...I was going based on Alton Brown's explanation of the science from his brining episode. Wonder if Mcgee has anything on this....


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## Burl Source (Nov 17, 2014)

My wife just called and asked me to get a roast on the way home.
She wants me to make another pot roast.


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## DDPslice (Nov 17, 2014)

Zwiefel said:


> Interesting. Looks like I need to do some digging into this...I was going based on Alton Brown's explanation of the science from his brining episode. Wonder if Mcgee has anything on this....



I made a new thread here:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...ality-process-and-preparation-of-food-or-PPPF


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