# What happened to my Masakage?!?!?!?!?!



## ChrisTheRed (Jan 8, 2015)

Ive had this Bunka for a couple months and just noticed this crack(?) in the core steel. I use this knife every day at my job and have never dropped or mistreated it. have any of you seen this happen before? i thought this knife was going to last me for ever but now its failing after two lousy months.


thanks for your input
Christopher







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## Matus (Jan 8, 2015)

Now that is weird. Sorry but I have to ask - are you sure it is a crack? It looks relatively wide. If it is a crack - can you estimate how deep it is? I would assume there must have been a fracture in the material from the production and it just got wider (or more visible) with time. It is very close to handle and I can not really imagine that normal use could cause that.

The only advice I can offer is to contact the seller if you bought it new - your chance for replacement should be high.

Sorry for your trouble.


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## ChrisTheRed (Jan 8, 2015)

i cant tell exactly how deep it is.....i know my extremely thin paring knife only goes a mm deep if that....i sincerely hope its not any deeper than that...i got it from ************** and i hope they will take care of it although ive heard whispers of less that ideal customer service over there....im just a little distraught right now.


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## chefcomesback (Jan 8, 2015)

Maybe some over aggressive forging trying to draw the tang out or hitting it too cold , I am not sure if it will affect longevity of the knife but you will be aware your knife has a crack in it . Return it I would say


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## Matus (Jan 8, 2015)

Chris - just drop them en email with the best image you can get of the issue. And yes - that site is banned here (some stuff happened prior I joined KKF and it probably must have been quite something if it went that far). 

1mm deep may not be a problem for now, but if that crack opened just recently, it may grow in the future. And if it is a hairline fracture that only widens up at the top - it may be deeper than you can measure with a tip of a knife.


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## XooMG (Jan 8, 2015)

The evil monsters will probably take care of you if the knife isn't too messed up. I wouldn't have expected a post quench stress crack in that particular spot or quite that large, but strange things do happen sometimes. Perhaps a straightening crack, but honestly I can't really tell from the pic.

Mistakes happen and flaws sometimes slip through. The cladding ought to limit propagation if it's a crack through the core, but it's not something I'd be satisfied with.

Talk to the dealer and ignore the poo slinging that happens here.


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## MowgFace (Jan 8, 2015)

There was another report of this same issue on a Masakage Koishi. Google search "Masakage Koishi Cracked."

Mowgs


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## chinacats (Jan 8, 2015)

XooMG said:


> The evil monsters will probably take care of you if the knife isn't too messed up.
> 
> Talk to the dealer and ignore the poo slinging that happens here.



Who's poo slinging now? :lol2: 

BTW. it's not poo slinging when there's a damn good reason for it...like this knife that somehow slid through the fabulous qc dept at Walmart--sorry meant that "knife" store.:razz:

Just one more example of why that site's not allowed here


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## XooMG (Jan 8, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Who's poo slinging now? :lol2:
> 
> BTW. it's not poo slinging when there's a damn good reason for it...like this knife that somehow slid through the fabulous qc dept at Walmart--sorry meant that "knife" store.:razz:
> 
> Just one more example of why that site's not allowed here


Thank you for demonstrating what I warned the OP to avoid.


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## chinacats (Jan 8, 2015)

XooMG said:


> Thank you for demonstrating what I warned the OP to avoid.



Thank you for getting me to post in this thread...I walked away from it laughing last night...:razz:

You just make it too easy! I owe you a sincere Thank You!

Oh and btw, you slung the first poo slung in this thread when you called them evil monsters!:clown:

Apologies to the OP for the threadjack--sucks about your knife, good luck.


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## ChrisTheRed (Jan 8, 2015)

update....


Hi Chris,

That's nothing. Don't sweat it. That is the core steel and it's most likely a surface imperfection and it won't affect the knife or your use of it. If the knife ever breaks let me know and I'll replace it. 

I love the Yuki! One of my favorite lines on the site. I hope you enjoy it too.

Kind Regards,

Mark Richmond
**************


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## glestain (Jan 8, 2015)

I see. I was guessing who is the vendor. BTW, is there a blacklist vendors?


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## chinacats (Jan 8, 2015)

glestain said:


> I see. I was guessing who is the vendor. BTW, is there a blacklist vendors?



Just them...

BTW, just the "core steel" would not make me feel very good as that's the only steel that really matters.

If he'll take it back, get him to swap it out. Any other vendor here would do a swap/return. Give him a chance to do the right thing...only fair. 

Just thought a bit more about that--"if it breaks, he'll replace it?" ***, it's already broke!

Cheers


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## ecchef (Jan 8, 2015)

:detective:


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## cheflivengood (Jan 8, 2015)

just break it now and he will have no choice irate1: :justkidding:


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## CutFingers (Jan 8, 2015)

I would try to ask for a replacement knife. That looks seriously wrong. It is doubtful the crack will become fully stressed and destroy the blade. But I'd try for another knife. "just the core steel cracked." Pretty funny really. If you don't get a replacement then enjoy using it.


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## JBroida (Jan 8, 2015)

for what its worth, what you are seeing will most likely not be an issue at all for the life of the knife in my experience. That, of course, has very little to do with the emotional side of paying for something and noticing something like that. The worst part is that even though its not really a big deal, it will be the only thing you see every time you look at your knife now. That being said, chances are its not really worth freaking out about. You can always drop a dab of CA glue in there to make sure water doesnt get in, but that would be it.


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## Bigbadwolfen (Jan 9, 2015)

Sorry for OT, is there any where I can read about why and when that site was banned? Never heard about that and it feels like it's among the top three sites people usually recommend :O 
OnT 
I have two masakage koishis from them, hope they won't crack, just had them for about 2-3 months :|


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## labor of love (Jan 9, 2015)

Bigbadwolfen said:


> Sorry for OT, is there any where I can read about why and when that site was banned? Never heard about that and it feels like it's among the top three sites people usually recommend :O
> OnT
> I have two masakage koishis from them, hope they won't crack, just had them for about 2-3 months :|



its just philosophical differences. Use this sites search feature and search for old threads if youre really curious. Not worth rehashing.


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## Tall Dark and Swarfy (Jan 9, 2015)

I'm with Jon. I think the biggest problem will be this crack, void, or whatever you want to call it interfering with OP enjoying an otherwise kickass knife. (I'm actually considering treating myself to one BTW.)

Worst case is over the course of time and use the crack propagates longitudinally through the blade. It can't propagate laterally due to the cladding. It could work far forward and OP may never know because the cladding provides the majority of the structure. It would likely never affect the performance of the knife unless and until the crack exits the clad on the edge side of the blade. 

This flaw is in a pretty obvious area. I wonder what lies hidden beneath the cladding of any of our knives. We all might be one magnaflux or x-ray away from falling out of love.

Cheers,

Rick


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## marc4pt0 (Jan 9, 2015)

Unless you start building houses with that knife, I seriously doubt that crack(or pit) will ever amount to anything. I can see how it would be an eye sore though. If it were mine I would round the spine and in the process try sanding down a mm to see just how far this black whole travels. It might reveal that this really is just a surface blemish, or give a little more evidence that this is indeed a crack. But I would discuss this with Mark first, before you alter the state of the knife. Who knows, he may be able to offer this service to you or point you in the right direction if you're not comfortable rounding the spine yourself.

Just my 2 cents


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## Mucho Bocho (Jan 9, 2015)

Send it back to Mark. He'll take care of you. I've returned knives to him for much less than a crack in the core steel. I wouldn't even consider keeping it. Also, if you do return it, please share your experience with the forum.


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## ChrisTheRed (Jan 9, 2015)

mark called me today and offered a full refund.....i told him i would hang on to it for now, but he insisted that i could return it at any time.....i feel i was treated fairly and intend to by a Yuki Gyuto as soon as i can afford it......thanks for all the input.

christopher


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## chinacats (Jan 9, 2015)

Good on Mark. You should probably take him up on it for peace of mind.

Cheers


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jan 9, 2015)

ChrisTheRed said:


> mark called me today and offered a full refund.....i told him i would hang on to it for now, but he insisted that i could return it at any time.....i feel i was treated fairly and intend to by a Yuki Gyuto as soon as i can afford it......thanks for all the input.



Nice to hear that Mark treated you well. Personally I'd keep that knife and don't worry about that crack at all.


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## Ruso (Jan 10, 2015)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Nice to hear that Mark treated you well. Personally I'd keep that knife and don't worry about that crack at all.



If the shipping is not ridiculously expensive (read: if OP is in US), I would return it


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## CutFingers (Jan 11, 2015)

Mark treats customers good, his service is good, the problem I think is his business model is about moving products at good profits at a fast pace. He'll more than likely return most things if they aren't abused or carelessly sharpened. My main gripe is that his entry level knives are not on the level of some other vendors. I think as you go up in price with Marks products you don't always get incremental growth in quality.

.


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## mhlee (Jan 13, 2015)

CutFingers said:


> Mark treats customers good, his service is good . . .
> 
> .



There are others here, including myself, that don't agree with what you've written. 

However, he most certainly moves as much product as possible. That's why his QC is lacking. That knife would have never been sold from the vendors here because it has an obvious flaw.


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## chinacats (Jan 13, 2015)

mhlee said:


> There are others here, including myself, that don't agree with what you've written.
> 
> However, he most certainly moves as much product as possible. That's why his QC is lacking. That knife would have never been sold from the vendors here because it has an obvious flaw.



+1


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## SolidSnake03 (Jan 14, 2015)

mhlee said:


> There are others here, including myself, that don't agree with what you've written.
> 
> However, he most certainly moves as much product as possible. That's why his QC is lacking. That knife would have never been sold from the vendors here because it has an obvious flaw.



Is that really the case? It sounds to me like the guy noticed the crack after MONTH's of use as his post indicated. That said, I wonder if it was there from the start or if it developed over time/occurred after the knife was with the customer. If it was the first case, crack there from the start, then yes it would be a QC oversight from Mark but if it developed over time or wasn't present initially, how could Mark have known that it was there?

The issue isn't that clear cut *sorry it's a bad pun* and I feel it could be a bit hard to believe that the owner first noticed a crack after month's of use if it was present from day 1. Not saying that isn't the case just that it sounds a bit unlikely imho.


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## Matus (Jan 14, 2015)

It seems like we are trying unnecessarily too hard to define a good guy and a bad guy. I am not trying to defend anyone, but mishaps happen even to the best and I do not think this endless bashing of one particular seller does any good to the KKF community and in particular to new members (that actually also includes me) and their perception of KKF. The ban of even naming the seller actually makes it hard to share relevant user/buyer experience and, IMHO, the lack of one sticky post from admins that would shortly but clearly explain the ban once and for all does not improve upon the things either. KKF is probably the largest English speaking community when it comes to kitchen knives and has also become an important hub for many vendors - and as we all know - with power comes responsibility.


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## toddnmd (Jan 14, 2015)

I agree with the previous two posts. 
The crack was noticed after two months of pro use. I'm not saying he caused it, but it's far from obvious. What he posted here was a magnified picture. I reduced it as much as I easily could on my computer, and it was hard to see (it was still larger than life size).
I get tired of the bashing, and it's far too often that someone asks a perfectly reasonable question. A number of people have weighed in that this flaw is not likely to impact performance or cause the knife to be unusable, and the seller has publicly stated that he would replace the knife if needed.


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## CoqaVin (Jan 14, 2015)

basically who cares


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## mhlee (Jan 14, 2015)

Matus said:


> It seems like we are trying unnecessarily too hard to define a good guy and a bad guy. I am not trying to defend anyone, but mishaps happen even to the best and I do not think this endless bashing of one particular seller does any good to the KKF community and in particular to new members (that actually also includes me) and their perception of KKF. The ban of even naming the seller actually makes it hard to share relevant user/buyer experience and, IMHO, the lack of one sticky post from admins that would shortly but clearly explain the ban once and for all does not improve upon the things either. KKF is probably the largest English speaking community when it comes to kitchen knives and has also become an important hub for many vendors - and as we all know - with power comes responsibility.



We're allowed to post contrary opinions as to members about all other knife-related things, but not about vendors?

Is it "bashing" if it's based in fact? Because if that's what you call bashing, then any contrary opinion is "bashing", even if correct.


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## mhlee (Jan 14, 2015)

toddnmd said:


> I agree with the previous two posts.
> The crack was noticed after two months of pro use. I'm not saying he caused it, but it's far from obvious. What he posted here was a magnified picture. I reduced it as much as I easily could on my computer, and it was hard to see (it was still larger than life size).
> I get tired of the bashing, and it's far too often that someone asks a perfectly reasonable question. A number of people have weighed in that this flaw is not likely to impact performance or cause the knife to be unusable, and the seller has publicly stated that he would replace the knife if needed.



Well, then clarify it with the OP and the member who made a blanket statement about Mark's service. 

There are plenty of others here who haven't received good service or a similar offer to replace a knife. He never offered to replace a knife that I had bought from him me that had a bolster issue, and handle issue where the wood began deteriorating after just light use.


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## Matus (Jan 14, 2015)

mhlee said:


> We're allowed to post contrary opinions as to members about all other knife-related things, but not about vendors?
> 
> Is it "bashing" if it's based in fact? Because if that's what you call bashing, then any contrary opinion is "bashing", even if correct.



Seems like I was not clear. We should indeed be allowed to to post critical opinions on anything including vendors. But if the one vendor which gets criticized (or bashed) can not even be properly named so if you are looking (browsing) for experience about particular vendor - you will have hard time to find something relevant (positive or negative), than it is not OK. Also - if certain issue is being discussed, than coming with a general negative statement which is not directly related to the subject is just not helpful. 

I would simply like it open and honest. The way this one particular vendor is being handled here is simply not doing any good to KKF. How should I know that I am on the righteous side? Not knowing is rarely a good thing. We either openly talk about this particular, or just draw a line and leave it to the past. Creating a negative myth makes our hands look dirty too.


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## mhlee (Jan 14, 2015)

Matus said:


> Seems like I was not clear. We should indeed be allowed to to post critical opinions on anything including vendors. But if the one vendor which gets criticized (or bashed) can not even be properly named so if you are looking (browsing) for experience about particular vendor - you will have hard time to find something relevant (positive or negative), than it is not OK. Also - if certain issue is being discussed, than coming with a general negative statement which is not directly related to the subject is just not helpful.
> 
> I would simply like it open and honest. The way this one particular vendor is being handled here is simply not doing any good to KKF. How should I know that I am on the righteous side? Not knowing is rarely a good thing. We either openly talk about this particular, or just draw a line and leave it to the past. Creating a negative myth makes our hands look dirty too.



Neither is making a general positive statement then, wouldn't you agree?

And, you are assuming that this is a myth. It is not, I assure you. Do some research here and you will see many posts about this vendor and customer service and QC issues. This is well documented. 

Remember, the vendor at issue is the primary seller of Moritaka.


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## Ruso (Jan 14, 2015)

I personally never dealt with him (vendor in question), so it's hard to pitch in something constrictive.
But honestly, I hear a lot of positive things about the vendor in question. And mostly negative things are from the same people over and over again and this gets old.


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## Kentucky (Jan 14, 2015)

I wont speak as to vendor issues but I can speak from knife making exp and plenty of exp with san mai construction..That crack could have always been there BUT it could have very well been a microscopic crack that was not visible to the naked eye at all..If that was the case it would/could have opened a bit with pressure/use..Likely it will not get any bigger but you never really know..I made an axe head with similar construction about 10 years ago..It had a very small delam along the cutting bit were I didnt clean the steel correctly(happens to the best of us every blue moon). I decided to just keep it and use it to split kindling with(we burn wood in the house and shop)..Ive had it that long and abused the heck out of it..Never been an issue..


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## mhlee (Jan 14, 2015)

Ruso said:


> I personally never dealt with him (vendor in question), so it's hard to pitch in something constrictive.
> But honestly, I hear a lot of positive things about the vendor in question. And mostly negative things are from the same people over and over again and this gets old.



I see poor quality knives still being sold by that vendor and complaints, and that gets old too.


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## EdipisReks (Jan 14, 2015)

I normally buy from vendors here, or direct from makers, but I recently bought a Konosuke Fujiyama Blue 2 Funayuki, from the vendor in question, because it was the right knife at the right price. It arrived very quickly, and is an incredibly sweet knife. The one time I returned a knife to the vendor in question, it was painless, and I was reimbursed for shipping (it was for something that I wasn't satisfied with, but which wasn't really a QC issue: Tojiro DP, 'nuff said). Do I go to Jon or Maxim, or Dave or one of the makers here, first? Sure. Do I buy from the vendor in question, with fine experiences so far? Yes. Just my 2 cents.

regarding that crack, I would just fill it with super glue or epoxy, and get on with life.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jan 15, 2015)

x2 on EdipisRek's stance here minus buying an awesome Kono Fuji Blue#2 Funayuki.....wish I had one of those.

That said, this is largely where my post came from in questioning the timing of the crack and when it was noticed. A vendor to some people may have a particular reputation but that doesn't mean you should still default to that reputation in light of evidence that contradicts it for this case in particular. 

Anyhow, Jon himself said you should be fine along with a bunch of other members here that are well regarded, return it if you want otherwise glue it and move in. If you do glue it I highly recommend waiting the 24hr's that super glue takes to "fully cure" which is indicated on many manufacturer's websites. It does seem to result in a stronger bond if you leave it undisturbed for at least a day after applying and setting it.


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## ChrisTheRed (Jan 16, 2015)

a couple things.....
first of all i would like to apologize for instigating this silly argument....

more importantly i appreciate all the sincere suggestions i was able to glean

i have decided to keep the knife and i am rankly in so pleased with it that i just bought a 240 yuki gyuto from knifewear.com
this is not because of any dissatisfaction i may, or may not, have with the previous website, its simply because they had it in stock and for the same price(only in Canadian dollars, so it ended up being significantly cheaper)


you gotta love international exchange rates right?


once again, thanks for all the input


christopher


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## Livlif (Jan 16, 2015)

ChrisTheRed said:


> a couple things.....
> first of all i would like to apologize for instigating this silly argument....
> 
> more importantly i appreciate all the sincere suggestions i was able to glean
> ...



Won't you get hit with import taxes?


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## chinacats (Jan 16, 2015)

Livlif said:


> Won't you get hit with import taxes?



Not likely...


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## Livlif (Jan 16, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Not likely...




Sweet! Thinking about ordering a takeda.


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