# VG-10 or Ginsanko?



## jonnachang (Nov 1, 2014)

Been looking at the Kagekiyo line of knives at J.K.I and Chubo knives.Please chime in with what is better between VG-10 or Ginsanko. Jeremy at Chubo knives is about $80 cheaper. Money is not the issue. Thanks for your response


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## Matus (Nov 1, 2014)

I had to read that question twice 

Anyhow - VG-10 does not have the best name around here (partially because of Shun Classic knives - that also reflects my experience). It seems that those with more experience tend to prefer Ginsanko. The VG-10 tends to be more chippy, while Gisamko should be fine grained easy to sharpen stainless steel.

If someone like Jon says that in his opinion there are better stainless steels like VG-10 (in one of his videos on knife steels), than I would take that as solid information. VG-10 can be nice - people seems to like the Hattori VG-10 blades, but if I were given the option, I would go with Ginsanko. If not anything else, than just because I have not used it yet


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## JBroida (Nov 1, 2014)

for what its worth, there are other differences aside from the steel, including the inclusion of a saya, different type and finish of handle, and OOTB edge condition. Also, i dont always hate VG10... there are some instances where i think it is done well. I may still prefer other steels, but its still a personal preference.


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## slash (Nov 1, 2014)

If money is not the issue go for Ginsanko... you will just have to give it more love.VG 10 if you want to be low maintenance about it.
Just like Matus said... Jonny boy knows a thing or to about said steels so i would listen to there advice.
Of course it also depends on what envirnoment your using it in. Are you a chef working in a hectic kitchen, or are you a home cook?


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## knyfeknerd (Nov 1, 2014)

I've had much better personal experience with Ginsanko, VG10 ain't too shabby sometimes though(and I used to always trash VG10)....................

Also, JKI is a vendor here so I would support them over someone that is not! But I'm kind of a homer.


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## slash (Nov 1, 2014)

knyfeknerd said:


> I've had much better personal experience with Ginsanko, VG10 ain't too shabby sometimes though(and I used to always trash VG10)....................
> 
> Also, JKI is a vendor here so I would support them over someone that is not! But I'm kind of a homer.



lus1:Not much selection on chubo what 3 knives...JKI 21 to choose from and you did not mention what type of knife you were after.


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## Benuser (Nov 1, 2014)

My personal experience is limited, I would say G-3 is much finer grained than VG-10. Both are great steels, though.


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## nik-q1 (Nov 1, 2014)

G3 here also. 
I have a friend who loves his Hattori and swears by it, and I think this might be one of the exceptions, BUT I think 9/10 times ginsan over VG-10 (and that 1 time might be the Hattori, I think because of better working of the steel and/or thinness of the blade,IDK exactly. BTW his is a sujihiki and is flexi like a filet knife). In general I feel ginsan is superior in ability to get sharper and stay sharper. I feel it is harder to sharpen than VG 10 for more people. But feel like I chase a burr on VG10 typically more often and also can be "harder" to sharpen for that reason.


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## Benuser (Nov 1, 2014)

If you may still get it, Hiromoto G3 with japanesechefsknife.com
Very easy sharpening.


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## daveb (Nov 1, 2014)

"Jonny boy" ???


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## jonnachang (Nov 1, 2014)

Totally not decided on what shape yet, but probably gyuto or suji.I just wanted to hear some feedback on differences between the two steels.Hell I might hold out for Baby Blue.Thanks.


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## chinacats (Nov 1, 2014)

jonnachang said:


> Hell I might hold out for Baby Blue.Thanks.



You must leave now, take what you need, you think will last
But whatever you wish to keep, you better grab it fast...

that baby blue?


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 1, 2014)

We are for the most part English speaking forum. I wonder how Japanese knife makers chose steel types when forging knives. It seems like as far as stainless goes Ginsan is a popular choice for some makers.

Been using the Tanaka Ginsan, Akifusa, & Spa Hiromoto as pass around knives at the school over 3 weeks now. take them back one a week & sharpen & send them out again.


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## lucabrasi (Nov 2, 2014)

It's all over now, chinacats.


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## jonnachang (Nov 4, 2014)

After looking at Jons video on knife steel I am more enlightened with the pros and cons of each steel presented earlier. Thanks to all.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 5, 2014)

Who is Jon (what's his username) and where can I find this knife steel video?

---

This is my first post, I've been reading the forum for the last few days learning about knifes ahead of buying my first decent knife.

I would like to learn more about the different types of steel - is there a tutorial on the forum about this? I've looked but not found...


Thanks
Steven

ps - I like your forum... lots of knowledge being shared 


---

Steven
Devon, UK


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## James (Nov 5, 2014)

[video=youtube;jkLsLst8qMc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkLsLst8qMc&list=UUpgJbCAVxzDHKaKYeuGYyOA[/video]

Here's Jon's video
It might be helpful to watch some of his other videos too. They're all very informative and well presented.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 5, 2014)

Thanks James.


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## Arty (Nov 6, 2014)

My Tojiro DP knives in VG10 are tough and hold an edge. I use a western Deba to split lobster tails, and have seen no brittleness, no chipping, and I haven't had to sharpen it after 28 tails and counting. The Gyoto holds up fine.
The reports I Have seen about brittle VG10 have involved Shuns. 
I have lots of knives in VG10 and none of them have shown signs of being brittle. It is a good steel for any knife where you want stainless properties, when properly heat treated.


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 7, 2014)

Agree with you Arty on Tojiro, have the VG-10 cleaver, it is a thicker hunk of steel, been chopping frozen fruit over a year with it no chipping at all. Their VG-10 cleavers have good grind and heat treatment.


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## CompE (Nov 7, 2014)

Comparing VG-10 vs. Ginsanko, IMHO the heat treatment will make a much bigger difference than the steel.



Devon_Steven said:


> Who is Jon (what's his username) and where can I find this knife steel video



JBroida. He was one of the first to reply to this thread.



Devon_Steven said:


> I would like to learn more about the different types of steel - is there a tutorial on the forum about this? I've looked but not found...


You can start with the Knife Steel FAQ at Zknives He has some qualitative information on a large number of steels including VG-10, but not Ginsanko, and information regarding how each element added to the alloy affects the steel's properties. You can use the Interactive Knife Steel Comparison Chart to compare the composition of almost any steel out there including Ginsanko vs. VG-10


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks, CompE 

Steven


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## daveb (Nov 7, 2014)

I try and look at the simple side of things. 

My impression is that VG-10 is used in a lot of mass produced, entry level pro, WS quality housewife, knives that are found in the 100 - 150 range. It's described by some as "chippy" but for the most part seems to be a decent steel for what it is used most often for - inexpensive stainless.

Going north of 200 one finds Ginsanko as well as several other stainless formulations but no more VG-10. Suisin, Tadasuna, and a few of Jon's Gesshin offerings use Ginsanko. I don't know of a quality Japanese maker that uses VG-10 (not to say they're not any).

Ergo I can conclude that Ginsanko is a better steel than VG-10 for a stainless knife. Smarter people than I can make the question harder but does the answer change?


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## gadgetguy9000 (Nov 7, 2014)

daveb said:


> I don't know of a quality Japanese maker that uses VG-10 (not to say they're not any).
> 
> Ergo I can conclude that Ginsanko is a better steel than VG-10 for a stainless knife. Smarter people than I can make the question harder but does the answer change?


How does your knowledge or ignorance of what manufacturers use which steel provide insight into the relative merits of two steels? Suisin, for example, uses very cheap steel in some $500+ knives. I think the question is more complex than who makes knives out of which steel and what they sell for.


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## malexthekid (Nov 7, 2014)

I think there are a lot of other factors to consider than just steel type. My first J knife was a shiki VG-10 and in my home environment it "performs" as good as good as the rest of mine (incl Ginga and a blazen).

Now i can feel the difference in edge retention between the two of them. My sharpening skills aren't good enough to find any difference between how sharp i can get them, but as i said in my home kitchen they all preform as good as each other in terms of that. And Geometry and how they feel in my hand are bigger reasons why i chose one over the other. 

So how much do you want to spend, how thin do you want your knife and what profile do you want ? These may guide you towards which steel rather than the other way around


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## Timthebeaver (Nov 7, 2014)

Yoshikane and Kagekiyo both available in VG-10. Hattori FH too. Masamoto single bevel VG-10 knives are definitely not inexpensive.

Interestingly, in the case of Yoshikane's Tamamoku line, the price for the VG-10 knives was higher than the V2 and white steel lines (granted, they were stainless clad compared to iron clad).

I honestly think a lot of nonsense has been perpetuated regarding VG-10. The fact that it's in e.g. Shun knives is without doubt a factor in this.


As always, the guy working the steel is more important than the steel.


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## lucabrasi (Nov 10, 2014)

Tanaka and Masakage make VG10 as well. Plenty of respectable makers use this steel.


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