# Confused between a Gyuto and Nakiri



## Alok (Jul 13, 2017)

Greetings !!!

After a lot of lurking around the KKF threads and reviews, finally decided to take the plunge into the world of J knives.

Would appreciate your experienced and practical views

LOCATION
Mumbai, India (I have a shipping address in London or New Jersey, US if that will reduce the cost)


KNIFE TYPE
Nakiri/Gyuto (80% of my work involves vegetables)

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Interested in Japanese Handle (as never tried one)

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
As I am a casual home chef, interested in smaller lengths - 180 to max 210mm

Do you require a stainless knife?
No (ready to take proper care of my carbon)


What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
200 to 250 USD max


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for 
slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, Onions, potatoes, rarely for cutting small fish

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
I have a Victorinox chef knife 210mm (not replacing it)

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? 
Practising the pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
Push cut, Chop



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Yes

Do you sharpen your own knives?
Yes. Learning. Recently purchased a Kings 1000/6000 whetstone


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

As of now I have Victorinox chef knife 210 mm, so planning to purchase a specialist for vegetables as most of my work revolves around them. Hence interested in Nakiri.

Going forward I also plan to purchase a 210mm Gyuto to replace my Victorinox. But that is for some other day.

Do you think that is the right thought process or should I first get a 210 mm Gyuto (since it is multi-utility) and practice vegetables with it. Currently I am very comfortable with my Victorinox chef knife on vegetables.

Your help and support would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
Alok


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 13, 2017)

Even doing mostly vegetables I wasn't a fan of the nakiri - it doesn't have the length I need for slicing poblanos. You probably aren't doing that, but think about what length of cuts you need.

As for addresses, London will probably be most expensive because of VAT, and if you're mostly in Mumbai you legitimately shouldn't have to pay that. Shipping to Mumbai may be cheaper than the US from a place like K&S or anywhere in Japan, but maybe not. US will certainly be cheaper if you order from JKI or anywhere else in the US.

Also, the cutting board question is meant to identify _which_ of those materials your board is made of, not just that you use a board.


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## khashy (Jul 13, 2017)

On Shipping, Koki (JapaneseChefsKnife.com) offers flat rate shipping across the globe, so you can get it shipped directly to Mumbai. 

That is if you find something you like there.


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## inzite (Jul 13, 2017)

if you get a slightly longer one like 195mm+ nakiri it would work i think.


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## Alok (Jul 13, 2017)

DanHumphrey said:


> Also, the cutting board question is meant to identify _which_ of those materials your board is made of, not just that you use a board.



Thanks for that one Mike. I do have a wooden (less than 10 USD) and a simple synthetic board. But nothing of exceptional quality.
I am a home enthusiastic chef with max 1 hour of knife use per day (People please don't laugh on that number)..


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## khashy (Jul 13, 2017)

Alok said:


> I am a home enthusiastic chef with max 1 hour of knife use per day (People please don't laugh on that number)..



I'd be lucky if I can get an hour a week mate.


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 13, 2017)

Alok said:


> Thanks for that one Mike. I do have a wooden (less than 10 USD) and a simple synthetic board. But nothing of exceptional quality.
> I am a home enthusiastic chef with max 1 hour of knife use per day (People please don't laugh on that number)..



Like Khashy, I'm at about that per week - it's just the two of us, and like half of what we eat is eggs. I do hope to take a stab (ha ha) at donburi one of these days and add that to the rotation.

We all started somewhere - I had a cheap bamboo board and a set of Hampton Forge cheapos from Target. My toys are still more modest than most around here, but I'm having fun.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jul 13, 2017)

I'd say to go with a nakiri, but one that will resell easily if you decide that it's not for you.

Down to specifics, I suggest the Watanabe. It's a carbon core with stainless cladding, and one of the best grinds available. It fits into your budget. The standard handle is nothing special, so look into an upgrade with a horn ferrule instead of a plastic one.







http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/nakkiri.htm


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 13, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> I'd say to go with a nakiri, but one that will resell easily if you decide that it's not for you.
> 
> Down to specifics, I suggest the Watanabe. It's a carbon core with stainless cladding, and one of the best grinds available. It fits into your budget. The standard handle is nothing special, so look into an upgrade with a horn ferrule instead of a plastic one.



lus1:


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## Ruso (Jul 13, 2017)

Go with the gyuto, much more versatile and forgiving to poorer technique.


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## Benuser (Jul 13, 2017)

As far as I know, most people have a Nakiri, love it, but rarely use it. Rick's advice on getting one you may easily sell is smart.


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## fatboylim (Jul 13, 2017)

Watanabe 180 Nakiri stainless clad are so well liked they will resell very easily for close to the retail price (if you don't like it). Definitely a +1 on this way of trying a knife.


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## jwpark (Jul 13, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Watanabe 180 Nakiri stainless clad are so well liked they will resell very easily for close to the retail price (if you don't like it). Definitely a +1 on this way of trying a knife.



+1 more for the 180mm Watanabe stainless clad nakiri :doublethumbsup: 

I really like the 180mm size, 165mm is way too small and unuseable

Jay


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 13, 2017)

Let me also say, either you will get hooked on knives as a hobby, in which case you'll be trying many, many examples, or you'll be satisfied and not come back.  I'm not sure if it's kind of me to hope you're the former.


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## Ruso (Jul 13, 2017)

Can I +1 my own posts? I mean really, all vote for a Nakiri? Gyuto is much more versatile and it's a better vegetable knife than a Nakiri for western type cooking (Indian cooking might be different, but not much). Obviously, it's my opinion but jeeeeezeeeee


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## Nemo (Jul 13, 2017)

My inclination would be to get a gyuto first because of the versatility. If you get hooked, you'll be back for more and who knows, maybe you'll end up with even more nakiris than The Captain.

Then again I may be biased. I have 9 gyutos with 2 more on the way vs only 1 nakiri.


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 13, 2017)

Nemo said:


> My inclination would be to get a gyuto first because of the versatility. If you get hooked, you'll be back for more and who knows, *maybe you'll end up with even more nakiris than The Captain*.
> 
> Then again I may be biased. I have 9 gyutos with 2 more on the way vs only 1 nakiri.



The number just keeps going up... she's getting mine tomorrow.


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## TheCaptain (Jul 13, 2017)

Nemo said:


> My inclination would be to get a gyuto first because of the versatility. If you get hooked, you'll be back for more and who knows, maybe you'll end up with even more* nakiris than The Captain.*
> 
> Then again I may be biased. I have 9 gyutos with 2 more on the way vs only 1 nakiri.



Highly unlikely :biggrin:


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## TheCaptain (Jul 13, 2017)

All this being said, if you had to choose one profile to try on a good knife I'd also say gyuto. Then once your eyes are opened you will fall into the rabbit hole and discover the awesomeness that is a Nakiri. I can offer some suggestions from there, but really there is only one true first choice and that is the Watanabe.


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## Nemo (Jul 13, 2017)

If you get a gyuto with a fairly flat profile, you can get used to the type of cutting that a nakiri offers.


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## labor of love (Jul 13, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> I'd say to go with a nakiri, but one that will resell easily if you decide that it's not for you.
> 
> Down to specifics, I suggest the Watanabe. It's a carbon core with stainless cladding, and one of the best grinds available. It fits into your budget. The standard handle is nothing special, so look into an upgrade with a horn ferrule instead of a plastic one.
> 
> ...



Are these ground thinner than watanabe gyutos?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jul 13, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Are these ground thinner than watanabe gyutos?



Very much so, at least the one I had.


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## labor of love (Jul 13, 2017)

Cool...it all makes sense now.


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## jaybett (Jul 14, 2017)

While a gyuto is versatile and multi-utility as you say, it doesn't excel in any area. Other knifes are better at specific tasks, that is chopping or slicing, but they don't have the gyuto's all around ability. 

The nakiri is well suited to prepping vegetables. It's light nimble and precise. A relatively flat edge makes it ideal for chopping, mincing and push cutting. The only knife that might be better than a nakiri and its debatable would be a vegetable cleaver. The cleaver would be able to handle larger amounts of prep, easier then a nakiri, but it wouldn't be as precise, nimble, or as light as a nakiri.

The short comings of a nakiri is its length. Larger fruits and vegetables could be challenging. From what I've read, Chinese cooks and chefs supplement their cleavers with slicing and utility knifes. You might want to consider a knife that compliments a nakiri, instead of just replacing your Victorinox with a gyuto. 


Good luck with your decision. 

Jay


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## Nemo (Jul 14, 2017)

jaybett said:


> While a gyuto is versatile and multi-utility as you say, it doesn't excel in any area. Other knifes are better at specific tasks, that is chopping or slicing, but they don't have the gyuto's all around ability.
> 
> The nakiri is well suited to prepping vegetables. It's light nimble and precise. A relatively flat edge makes it ideal for chopping, mincing and push cutting. The only knife that might be better than a nakiri and its debatable would be a vegetable cleaver. The cleaver would be able to handle larger amounts of prep, easier then a nakiri, but it wouldn't be as precise, nimble, or as light as a nakiri.
> 
> ...



I would add that the other shortcoming of the nakiri is the absence of a tip.


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## labor of love (Jul 14, 2017)

Nemo said:


> I would add that the other shortcoming of the nakiri is the absence of a tip.



+1


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Jul 14, 2017)

Nemo said:


> I would add that the other shortcoming of the nakiri is the absence of a tip.



The solution to this is to get an Kamagata-style Nakiri. 

Long story, I'll try to not ramble too much. Jon (@JKI) in his Q&A video Sunday, (see his forum here for replays,) answered a question about the types of Usubas. As I understand it, there are regional variations in Usuba designs and those called Kamagata have a rounded nose and provide somewhat of a tip. If you found the same variation of in a Nakiri it would solve this problem. (BTW- to me, it would look like a Santoku with a flat belly.) Unfortunately my Google-foo is weak and the only example I've found is something offered here by PierreRodrigue in this old THREAD here.


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## fatboylim (Jul 14, 2017)

That same old chestnut: Gyuto vs. every other blade in existence. 

Gyuto is a great all rounder but not specialised at all. In a home setting (low volume of prep) a 210 Gyuto is all you need. 

Nakiri is lots more fun. It is flatter, thinner grind and extra height all make for easier push cutting, chopping and push cutting. 

My personal home set up is:
210 Gyuto 
210 nakiri
180 nakiri
150 Petty (scouting BST for a stainless clad AS) 
Bread knife. 

I need nothing more (but I keep rotating through buying and selling).


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## Nemo (Jul 14, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> I need nothing more (but I keep rotating through buying and selling).



Heracy!


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## Nemo (Jul 14, 2017)

Yet-Another-Dave said:


> The solution to this is to get an Kamagata-style Nakiri.
> 
> Long story, I'll try to not ramble too much. Jon (@JKI) in his Q&A video Sunday, (see his forum here for replays,) answered a question about the types of Usubas. As I understand it, there are regional variations in Usuba designs and those called Kamagata have a rounded nose and provide somewhat of a tip. If you found the same variation of in a Nakiri it would solve this problem. (BTW- to me, it would look like a Santoku with a flat belly.) Unfortunately my Google-foo is weak and the only example I've found is something offered here by PierreRodrigue in this old THREAD here.



Are there any kamagata nakiris? I thought this was a style of usuba. I assumed that the nakiri version was something like a bunka or a flat profile santoku.


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## khashy (Jul 14, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> That same old chestnut: Gyuto vs. every other blade in existence.
> 
> Gyuto is a great all rounder but not specialised at all. In a home setting (low volume of prep) a 210 Gyuto is all you need.
> 
> ...



Stainless clad petty:
https://japanesechefsknife.com/collections/aogami-super-carbon-steel-blue-super-steel/products/takeshi-saji-aogami-super-custom-series-petty-130mm-and-150mm-irownwood-handle

better yet, when this comes in stock:
https://japanesechefsknife.com/collections/aogami-super-carbon-steel-blue-super-steel/products/jck-natures-deep-impact-series-petty-120mm-and-150mm


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## fatboylim (Jul 14, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Heracy!





fatboylim said:


> I need nothing more (but I keep rotating through buying and selling).



I contradict myself, I forgot my awesome 180 Kato Gyuto!


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Jul 14, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Are there any kamagata nakiris? I thought this was a style of usuba. I assumed that the nakiri version was something like a bunka or a flat profile santoku.



Clearly I rambled too much. Sorry.

There are two "flavors" of Usuba, yes. Usuba is single-bevel and excels at specific Japanese vegetable preparations. Nakiri is double-bevel and is a more general purpose vegetable knife. Nakiri generally resembles the more common Usaba in profile.

I think those are all facts.

Specifically to address the point question/issue, I (thought I) made up a new Nakiri profile like the Kamagata Usubas. (I learned these terms from Jon's Q/A last Sunday. There's a link in the JKI forum, so you can see what he really said!) Turns out that phase has been used, I found one here and linked to the 2013 thread. However, if you were to find one for sale today, you'd need connections or better search skills than I have.

Given all that maybe a thin flat Santoku would suit the OP's needs. (And I've got to go googling "bunka", since that's new to me.)

Dave


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## Alok (Jul 14, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> I'd say to go with a nakiri, but one that will resell easily if you decide that it's not for you.
> 
> Down to specifics, I suggest the Watanabe. It's a carbon core with stainless cladding, and one of the best grinds available. It fits into your budget. The standard handle is nothing special, so look into an upgrade with a horn ferrule instead of a plastic one.
> 
> ...



Finally decided on Watanabe Nakiri.
Thank for your 'smart' suggestion


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## Ruso (Jul 14, 2017)

jaybett said:


> While a gyuto is versatile and multi-utility as you say, it doesn't excel in any area. Other knifes are better at specific tasks, that is chopping or slicing, but they don't have the gyuto's all around ability.
> 
> The nakiri is well suited to prepping vegetables. It's light nimble and precise. A relatively flat edge makes it ideal for chopping, mincing and push cutting. The only knife that might be better than a nakiri and its debatable would be a vegetable cleaver. The cleaver would be able to handle larger amounts of prep, easier then a nakiri, but it wouldn't be as precise, nimble, or as light as a nakiri.
> 
> ...



I have used nakiri in home setting for several years. And a gyuto is hands down a better tool for veg prep in general. Nakiri excels in scooping power, but nothing that taller gyuto can't do. 
I still use a nakiri once in a while for "change of scenery" and fun factor but overall it's a lesser option. I think a Nakiri is something that everybody should try (and perhaps it will suite your style), but it should not be a priority especially as a first or a substitute knife.


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## Ruso (Jul 14, 2017)

Alok said:


> Finally decided on Watanabe Nakiri.
> Thank for your 'smart' suggestion



Enjoy. 
You just opened a can, can of knives


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## Alok (Jul 14, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> Highly unlikely :biggrin:



Yes agree..Would come nowhere near to collection of the great people out here.
Though 1 day I would love a collection :
1 210 Gyuto
1 180 Nakiri
1 150 - 180 Petty
1 Paring

Would love that Gyuto to be a Shig or a Kato..but I guess I will have to work my way up. Its good in a way as I would understand and be able to appreciate the finer details of Shig/Kato..may be the F&F, finishing, etc.
But going by the demand, saving needs to start from today..


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## Alok (Jul 14, 2017)

Also I feel would be comfortable with a Nakkiri as I am used to a local knife of below profile..common thing being a flat edge


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## Alok (Jul 14, 2017)

Alok said:


> Also I feel would be comfortable with a Nakkiri as I am used to a local knife of below profile..common thing being a flat edge



Sorry unable to post image.I think permissions pending 
Would have shown you the local Indian knife..


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## Alok (Jul 14, 2017)

Thank you all for your suggestions and guidance.
Deeply grateful to you all.


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## jaybett (Jul 14, 2017)

Nemo said:


> I would add that the other shortcoming of the nakiri is the absence of a tip.



Or it can be an advantage if you are working in small spaces. 

A nakiri or vegetable cleaver has a tip. Lift up the handle and the tip is similar to box knife, which is helpful with pull cuts. 

In the produce departments, at least in the Pacific Northwest, the grocers use nakiri shaped knifes to trim fruits and vegetables. 

A sujihiki and petty have a more traditional tip. Again a knife to compliment a nakiri. 

A gyuto might be the only knife that is needed but it is much nicer to have a knife that is suited for the job. A nakiri or vegetable cleaver are better knifes for vegetable prep then a gyuto. Where it isn't practical to use two or three knifes, then a gyuto is the right choice. 

One of the things I enjoy about Japanese knifes is trying out the different types. I picked up a nakiri and was impressed with how easily it chopped vegetables. My family has large gatherings, so I wanted a knife that could handle large amounts of prep work. That lead me to vegetable cleaver. 

A vegetable cleaver that is 210 x 110mm or larger is everything the forum doesn't like in a knife. It's heavy, cumbersome, thick, etc.... To use a vegetable cleaver is all about technique. They can't be muscled around. Learning how to use a vegetable cleaver noticeably improved my skills with a gyuto. A 300mm gyuto feels small in the hand. 

What's next after a nakiri and vegetable cleaver? A kamagata usuba. It's still early in the learning process, but it will be interesting to find out what the knife can do. 

A person in a restaurant kitchen with the pressure to get everything done yesterday is going to choose knives that are proven to work in that environment, namely a gyuto. The rest of us have the time to explore knifes that might be better suited to our kitchens such as a nakiri. 

Jay


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 14, 2017)

Congratulations! Do be sure to let us know how you like it; it helps people who read the thread in the future make their own decisions and the rest of us like to see how it came out.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jul 14, 2017)

Alok said:


> Finally decided on Watanabe Nakiri.
> Thank for your 'smart' suggestion



You're very welcome. Enjoy your new knife.


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## Nemo (Jul 14, 2017)

Alok said:


> Yes agree..Would come nowhere near to collection of the great people out here.
> Though 1 day I would love a collection :
> 1 210 Gyuto
> 1 180 Nakiri
> ...



Yeah, that's what I thought too....

Enjoy the Wat. It's on my "want to try list"


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## Alok (Jul 15, 2017)

One more query frnds,
How important is Saya for resell?
I have a separate compartment for my knives in the drawer and would not require it on regular basis.
One in 10th chance, if I have to resell the knife, would the saya be the deal breaker?

Cost wise Saya is costing 3/5th of the knife value, which feels substantial starting out.


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## fatboylim (Jul 15, 2017)

No need for a saya generally. It's a nice bonus only.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 15, 2017)

I don't think a saya is a deal breaker.


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 15, 2017)

Thirding the sentiment that a saya is "nice". For transport or long-term storage, a cardboard sheath works just as well, for free.


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## Alok (Jul 15, 2017)

Thanks for the near unanimous opinion on Sayas


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## Dirt (Jul 16, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> I'd say to go with a nakiri, but one that will resell easily if you decide that it's not for you.
> 
> Down to specifics, I suggest the Watanabe. It's a carbon core with stainless cladding, and one of the best grinds available. It fits into your budget. The standard handle is nothing special, so look into an upgrade with a horn ferrule instead of a plastic one.
> 
> ...



+1 on this guy


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## Alok (Aug 2, 2017)

Finally the Watanabe Nakiri 180 mm arrived yesterday. Looks pretty big, but was surprised as it felt very light in the hand.
The knife itself looks so awesome that haven't yet made any cuts with it. This weekend booked to learn about sharpening and proper care/maintenance of the knife.


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## valgard (Aug 2, 2017)

prepare to be very happy


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## Badgertooth (Aug 2, 2017)

Hi Alok, I think you're going to be very happy with it and good on you for setting aside the time for learning how to take care of it. It enriches the enjoyment of these tools so much


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## TheCaptain (Aug 3, 2017)

Alok I look forward to your thoughts on this knife. 

Valgard - same for you!

Believe it or not I don't have a watanabe 180 pro yet...


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## valgard (Aug 3, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> Alok I look forward to your thoughts on this knife.
> 
> Valgard - same for you!
> 
> Believe it or not I don't have a watanabe 180 pro yet...



Captain I did a rather extensive review a while back. Need to update it and make a decent video but have been a bit swamped and also other toys require my attention [emoji6]. My thoughts are that if you like a tall and hefty nakiri this is very hard to beat.


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## fatboylim (Aug 3, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> Alok I look forward to your thoughts on this knife.
> 
> Valgard - same for you!
> 
> Believe it or not I don't have a watanabe 180 pro yet...



But you have the Kato 180 Damascus! It will make for a great comparison. How is the Kato Nakiri working out for you Capt?


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## Chef_ (Aug 3, 2017)

Well, the difference between a gytuo and nakiri are quite simple.

Gyutos are for cooking, and Nakiris are for housewives making tuna salad.


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## valgard (Aug 3, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Well, the difference between a gytuo and nakiri are quite simple.
> 
> Gyutos are for cooking, and Nakiris are for housewives making tuna salad.



Do your parents know you are surfing a knives site?


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## Chef_ (Aug 3, 2017)

valgard said:


> Do your parents know you are surfing a knives site?



Its just my way of saying nakiris have no place in a professional kitchen.


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## Triggaaar (Aug 3, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Its just my way of saying nakiris have no place in a professional kitchen.


Two points: 1) This site (and even this thread) isn't only about professional kitchens. 2) Some professionals here choose to use a nakiri when a lot of veg prep is required, as they're more suitable than the alternatives.


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## valgard (Aug 3, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Its just my way of saying nakiris have no place in a professional kitchen.



very poor choice of words IMO


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## TheCaptain (Aug 3, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Well, the difference between a gytuo and nakiri are quite simple.
> 
> Gyutos are for cooking, and Nakiris are for housewives making tuna salad.



Wow, with one sentence you manage to be insulting to three distinct groups of people. That's quite a record.

Slow clapping...


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## Chef_ (Aug 3, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> Wow, with one sentence you manage to be insulting to three distinct groups of people. That's quite a record.
> 
> Slow clapping...



maybe slightly dickish the way i put it.


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## Chef_ (Aug 3, 2017)

valgard said:


> very poor choice of words IMO



Alright, ill put it this way. In a professional environment , with a nakiri and a gyuto in my bag, why would i ever reach for my nakiri when the gyuto does the same thing only better, and is more multi purpose.


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## Triggaaar (Aug 4, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Alright, ill put it this way. In a professional environment , with a nakiri and a gyuto in my bag, why would i ever reach for my nakiri when the gyuto does the same thing only better, and is more multi purpose.


I read a comment on here from a user whose kitchen had to cut 150-200lbs of onions every day for French onion soup at during a specific season. They said that the staff could do it something like 20% faster with a nakiri than with a gyuto.

Now that may not be the case for you, but it seems it is the case in some professional kitchens.


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## Chef_ (Aug 4, 2017)

Triggaaar said:


> I read a comment on here from a user whose kitchen had to cut 150-200lbs of onions every day for French onion soup at during a specific season. They said that the staff could do it something like 20% faster with a nakiri than with a gyuto.
> 
> Now that may not be the case for you, but it seems it is the case in some professional kitchens.



Maybe its just something i would have to use first hand to "get it".


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## TheCaptain (Aug 4, 2017)

Wait?!? So you're dissing on a tool you haven't even tried? Sorry, pro or not but you just lost major street creditability.


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## Triggaaar (Aug 4, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Maybe its just something i would have to use first hand


:bigeek:


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## cheflivengood (Aug 4, 2017)

Triggaaar said:


> I read a comment on here from a user whose kitchen had to cut 150-200lbs of onions every day for French onion soup at during a specific season. They said that the staff could do it something like 20% faster with a nakiri than with a gyuto.
> 
> Now that may not be the case for you, but it seems it is the case in some professional kitchens.



When you are a fast and efficient knife worker, someone like me, the benefits of a nakiri are in you off hand, not your knife hand. Having more flat surface area, and center guide knuckle contact near the front make it easier and more efficient to control more food stuff with the left hand. For instance if I want to i can thin slice 2 onions at one, one in front of the other with a nakiri of about 200mm, while I would need a gyuto of 250-270 for the same amount of flat space. since most cooks don't like gyutos that big, or can't handle them, their prefered 220 gyuto wouldnt have enough board contact for chopping and the product would not be cut all the way through towards the tip where the curve begins.

"Well, the difference between a gytuo and nakiri are quite simple.

Gyutos are for cooking, and Nakiris are for housewives making tuna salad."

As a man raised by a single mother, who also happens to be a retired CEO and CFO of a 300 million dollar real estate investment trust, comments like this really ******* piss me off. Watch your ******* mouth.


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## Chef_ (Aug 4, 2017)

cheflivengood said:


> As a man raised by a single mother, who also happens to be a retired CEO and CFO of a 300 million dollar real estate investment trust, comments like this really ******* piss me off. Watch your ******* mouth.



Its not that serious


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## Chef_ (Aug 4, 2017)

Triggaaar said:


> I read a comment on here from a user whose kitchen had to cut 150-200lbs of onions every day for French onion soup at during a specific season. They said that the staff could do it something like 20% faster with a nakiri than with a gyuto.
> 
> Now that may not be the case for you, but it seems it is the case in some professional kitchens.



Maybe in that capacity its useful. But im not a prepcook, my daily routine is more "brunoise 9th pan on mirepoix", and less " chopping 100 onions for soup". Maybe in that capacity a Nakiri would make sense. But as a line knife, it doesnt .


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## TheCaptain (Aug 4, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Its not that serious



I guess not, as long as you're not the one being diminished.


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## Chicagohawkie (Aug 4, 2017)

Captain, still waiting to see that kato nakiri you picked up! Happy you got in on one!


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## Jkts (Aug 4, 2017)

Unfortunate turn this thread took.

Alok, looking forward to hearing how the knife cuts. 

Japanese knives are designed for specific purposes- the nakiri certainly has its place.

They are incredibly sharp by their geometry, sharpened flat on the face to the edge. 

The nakiri is ideal for slicing and can make incredibly thin cuts.

As has been noted by others here, there is a technique and skill for every knife.


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## Triggaaar (Aug 4, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Maybe in that capacity its useful. But im not a prepcook


So for you, cutting a variety of food items, the gyuto is the better knife to have. I expect that's true for the vast majority of chefs here, and true of most home cooks too. But the nakiri might be right for some people, even in a professional environment.

I know that some top chefs have a reputation for being rude, but being rude on here won't make you a better chef.


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## malexthekid (Aug 4, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> I guess not, as long as you're not the one being diminished.



Just let him keep digging... at some point he will reach the core and spontaneously combust and we will no longer have to read his tripe.


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## Chef_ (Aug 4, 2017)

well i see ive awoken the wrath of the Nakiri fan club...


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## comet_sharp (Aug 4, 2017)

I was sous and worked doubles at my last job (prep in am and line/expo during service). In am I prepped with a 240 wide bevel gyuyo and 185mm thin ground nakiri. Used a 190 petty or a 210 Konosuke gyuto (200mm) on the line. I thin the tips of my nakiris and can brunoise with them quite easily...that said each knife has a purpose. When cutting acorn squash and doing sweet pot hash and cole slaw you'll be glad you have that nakiri. Otherwise I can do almost anything with a gyuto and petty. (Also used a honesuki for poultry work and a deba/suji combo for fish and bigger proteins (<-suji)
-Trey


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## Chef_ (Aug 5, 2017)

comet_sharp said:


> I was sous and worked doubles at my last job (prep in am and line/expo during service). In am I prepped with a 240 wide bevel gyuyo and 185mm thin ground nakiri. Used a 190 petty or a 210 Konosuke gyuto (200mm) on the line. I thin the tips of my nakiris and can brunoise with them quite easily...that said each knife has a purpose. When cutting acorn squash and doing sweet pot hash and cole slaw you'll be glad you have that nakiri. Otherwise I can do almost anything with a gyuto and petty. (Also used a honesuki for poultry work and a deba/suji combo for fish and bigger proteins (<-suji)
> -Trey



i suppose for long periods of veg prepping they may be better specialized than a gyuto. Maybe my vision is a little shortsighted due to the fact that we dont have a prep team at my restaurant. But i suppose if you were chopping onions for a long period of time, then it would warrant use in the kitchen. personally, i cannot justify any bag-space to a specialized vegetable knife, which is why im reluctant to buy one and try it out for myself. If i need a flatter profile knife, ill just take my masamoto ks to work.


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## Mute-on (Aug 5, 2017)

So you've never owned a Nakiri, never used a Nakiri, have a very small bag for your knives, and think a KS Gyuto is all you need to be a serious chef.

Then you want to have your prescriptive and tactless comments taken as informed and reasonable.

Interesting approach .... Good luck with that.


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## Triggaaar (Aug 5, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> well i see ive awoken the wrath of the Nakiri fan club...


Yep, this is definitely everyone else's fault.


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## Chef_ (Aug 5, 2017)

Mute-on said:


> So you've never owned a Nakiri, never used a Nakiri, have a very small bag for your knives, and think a KS Gyuto is all you need to be a serious chef.
> 
> Then you want to have your prescriptive and tactless comments taken as informed and reasonable.
> 
> Interesting approach .... Good luck with that.



Well I wouldnt call a 12 pocket bag small. And now youre just putting words in my mouth.


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## Chef_ (Aug 5, 2017)

Triggaaar said:


> Yep, this is definitely everyone else's fault.



lol you guys get so mad over nothing.


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## XooMG (Aug 5, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> lol you guys get so mad over nothing.


Don't think folks are particularly mad. They just want to keep some of the malignant overconfidence in check.

Enjoy your knives in good health and defecate considerately.


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## fatboylim (Aug 5, 2017)

XooMG said:


> Don't think folks are particularly mad. They just want to keep some of the malignant overconfidence in check.
> 
> Enjoy your knives in good health and defecate considerately.



+1
Affluent and Effluent are so similar in writing but so different in meaning. Let's keep to the better of the two.

Excuse my drunken philosophy as I write this.


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## Triggaaar (Aug 5, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> lol you guys get so mad over nothing.


I don't think anyone here is mad. Well, not in the angry sense at least.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 21, 2017)

I wanted to bring this thread up again, cause seems that lots of folks on the forum have this thing against Nakiri's. First, unless you've handled and used lots of different samples, assuming that they all behave the same on the board is non-sense. 

My omission, I've owned several 165mm from Takeda and Moritaka, so I thought like many here, Nakiri are not as useful as other knives, so why use it. I've attended three ECG so have had a chance to handle others and my impressions never changed. I sold the ones I had. 

Then I was able to acquire a 185mm Ku Kato Nakiri 228g, spine 6mm with little taper. I've now changed my opinion on how useful this knife can be. Its now one of my favorite's and is used as often as I can. Heck, I prepare dishes around this knife: Thai, Vietnamese... 

Just saying nakiri's Rock and chop!


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## V1P (Aug 21, 2017)

I agree with you completely, Mucho. I have used my Harner nakiri exclusively for a month, in a commercial environment. That thing took care of everything I threw at it.


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## dwalker (Aug 21, 2017)

I went through a few nice short Nakiris including a Shig and determined they are not for me. As I am one to never give up, I recieved this one today. 





Toyama 210. It bears no resemblance to any I've tried previously. I have a feeling this one will speak to me and complement my collection well.


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## HRC_64 (Aug 21, 2017)

As some stage those longer Nikiri's just looks like 240-270 gyuto's with the tip missing...
....which is probably the point for a "domestic" knife. 
but what is the benefit unless you are a home-cook in cramped quarters 
who doesn't want to care for or replace a fragile tip knife?

In other words, it would be an interesting to change the discussion to a question about techniques: 
what is more usable or possible with the square tip and re-defiend balance point?


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## labor of love (Aug 21, 2017)

HRC_64 said:


> As some stage those longer Nikiri's just looks like 240-270 gyuto's with the tip missing...
> ....which is probably the point for a "domestic" knife.
> but what is the benefit unless you are a home-cook in cramped quarters
> who doesn't want to care for or replace a fragile tip knife?
> ...



I dunno, that Toyama nakiri has a longer and taller flat spot than it's gyuto counterparts.


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## dwalker (Aug 21, 2017)

labor of love said:


> I dunno, that Toyama nakiri has a longer and taller flat spot than it's gyuto counterparts.


Completely different grind as well.


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## labor of love (Aug 21, 2017)

Dwalker, looks like a great knife. I'm guessing the grind is perhaps thinner not just at the edge but much of the blade?


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## HRC_64 (Aug 21, 2017)

>Toyama 210. It bears no resemblance to any I've tried previously

Nobody is saying this Toyama is average LOL...

http://www.geijn.com/kur_nakiri_165.html
http://www.geijn.com/kas_gyuto_210.html
http://www.geijn.com/kit_gyuto_240.html

these are a common maker with readily available stats, so just using this as an example

A standard 165 Nakiri I don't think has a larger flat spot than the same-maker standard 240 or 270, but some math or a ruler would probably be interesting to actually apply and double check.

https://japaneseknifereviews.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/profile-suisin.jpg?w=1024&h=233

Here is the estimated "useful" flat spot of a gyuto vs spec size based on the Inox Hyonyaki

210 127.3 
240 145.5 
270 163.7 

Maybe someone else can do it with more precision.

The SIH has a thin grind so seems closer to a nakiri; the shig nakiri has no distal taper and a 2.0mm spine if i'm reading the chart above correct.


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## dwalker (Aug 21, 2017)

I can only compare the Toyama 210 Nakiri to the 240 gyuto. The Nakiri is 10mm+ taller at the heel measuring 65.4mm. It is also 58g heavier than the 240 gyuto at 290g. The handles are identical. My 240 gyuto has almost no flat spot, maybe 15 or 16mm. The Nakiri has anout the same. The Nakiri is thinner behind the edge despite being heavier. Both are about 3.5mm at the spine above the heel but the Nakiri thins out a little quicker. Here is a choil shot of the Nakiri, but as we know, choil shots can be a little deceiving. 





It kind of feels like a hybrid Nakiri/Chineese cleaver. I will let you know more as it gets some use.


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## K813zra (Aug 21, 2017)

Interesting to see how some interpret things. I am sure there are those who claim a nikiri useless but I hear that about other knives as well. Namely a santoku. Say what you want but I resonate with them. I still like my gyuto though and particularly one small enough to be used as a petty. It is simply versatile without having to master some new or difficult technique to use it. It isn't that I don't like my nakiri(s) but they are good at what they are good at, for me, and that is veggie prep. I just put my Watanabe through the paces last week for a family gathering. A bag of onions and a case of mushrooms and for that it is marvelous. Not so much for pork loin.

If I could only own one knife it would not be a nakiri nor would I suggest it to others as such. That does not mean that it does not have a place in someones roll. 

That said, wow, a 210mm nakiri as mentioned above seems huge! Now, you are talking about a Toyama which is already a beefy knife.


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## labor of love (Aug 21, 2017)

The Toyama nakiri sounds big and maybe heavy, but for people that are used to a much heavier #6 cleavers these might be a lighter more compact option.


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## K813zra (Aug 21, 2017)

labor of love said:


> The Toyama nakiri sounds big and maybe heavy, but for people that are used to a much heavier #6 cleavers these might be a lighter more compact option.



I've not used a cleaver but it seems like something to swat eagles with! I am a santoku or 180mm gyuto kind of guy so that seems freaking massive.


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