# Home audio in 2021?



## LostHighway (Jan 17, 2021)

I'm planning to reconfigure/downsize my home audio system this year. My existing system is good but dated and oversize for the room. I'm not terribly interested in portable audio at least for the near term.

I would appreciate input on headphones, especially open back phones for ≤$600 USD (preferably significantly less). I've almost pulled the trigger on the Massdrop x Sennheiser 6xx phones numerous times but I've always been held back by prior experience with the "Sennheiser veil" and the polite but somewhat boring house sound. I do, however, like accurate sound - anything that is all bass and sizzle need not apply. I'm certainly willing to listen to suggestions for closed back or in-ear phones but they are of secondary interest.
DACs/Digital Hubs - Processors/Headphone amps All I have right now is the Massdrop x Grace m9xx which is semi-adequate but limited. I won't buy anything over $500 unless I can audition in person and I have near zero interest in PRC made gear unless it has a full North American service base. I'm more interested in Chord Qutest/Hugo 2 or Ayre Codex level gear but might consider up to the $5k ballpark.
Speakers that don't have a huge footprint - either stand mounts or floor standers. Prefer to stay in the ≤$3k realm. Sub 40Hz bass isn't particularly important but speakers that are -3dB at 70Hz might be too bass light. Again I have to be able to audition in person without traveling thousands of miles. I would consider shipped gear if they have great shipping packaging and painless return freight. Assume solid state amplification.
I have a strong preference for companies with good product support. Ayre at least used to be amazingly good (I'm not current) and Bryston was well above average. Harmon International companies have historically been terrible but I'm not sure how they operate under their current ownership.
Edit - I mostly listen to jazz including very outside stuff, singer-songwriters, first gen and early 2nd gen punk, 50s to early 70s R&B, psychedelia, and the catchalls of alternative/indie/"Americana" - very little metal, prog, or hip hip. My classical listening is mostly Baroque/early classical or 20th & 21st C.


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## ModRQC (Jan 17, 2021)

You really should shop that with your ears. I worked in selling A/V for a good while. Lot of racket into that. Bought and sold my share for myself. Headphones are easy; speakers and amplifier and placement is a match that will only speak truth once in your very room with its particular acoustics. Cheaper stuff could sound perfect, expensive stuff could turn unimpressive, and the weirdest pairing might work better than one that's righteous "on paper".

I'd say concentrate on headphones and DAC first. The store that has your best pick, they can hook that DAC to a couple amps and speaker sets for you. They might not hold that brand you were looking for, but the direct experience will be awesome. If these guys are ready to hook a set of speakers at your home, you're golden. Most serious stores will arrange things for you - when that kind of money is involved, their customer base are basically sound freaks, they won't "believe" it's good until they've tested it within their own kit.

For regular A/V I always thought floorstanding speakers were the best - gives more forward presence. But with music, especially a ballpark where deep base isn't as important as clean and unmuddied with seamless transition, I was impressed with so many stand mount, just a simple mid/bass driver and tweeter in a well made housing that doesn't have to deal with integrating three drivers and a tweeter can do wonder with music and soundstage, but of course they might sound a bit hollow with booming base. Subwoofer can take some of the slack, but when a full sound is integrated in your speakers without needing anything more, it's much better. With a good stand, a small speaker can shine in clarity and fluidity, and be just that amount less "influenced" by room acoustics. Still, I've heard floorstanders where bass was powerful, integration near perfect, dampening righteous, but these usually require room to shine - smaller spaces are still best served with stand mounted. 

It's just that I've heard so much different components mixed together that I don't believe in it anymore. One of my best sounding kit had a rather cheap Yamaha stereo amplifier that was deemed good for price, and some set of Monitor Audio Silver floorstanders with a small Sunfire subwoofer. They just worked well together, but no one would have gone to a store and ask to listen to just that specific kit together. We would hook Silver floorstanders with much more expensive amps because that's what people wanted to listen. Silver stand mounted I never had at home sadly, but they sounded terrific in store - much better than a whole range of higher end stuff. Just an example in particular. At another store where I worked, it was a Cambridge Audio amp paired with a small set of floorstanders that were about the cheapest we had to show that worked. I wouldn't have wanted those speakers within three miles of my home, but in that store, in that room, they worked splendidly.

Good luck!


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## Jovidah (Jan 17, 2021)

For what it's worth when it comes to headphones I always preferred Beyerdynamic over Sennheiser in the same price range. But it's all very personal preferences.
If you really want to make a good choice on a significant budget I'd say look around for a proper audio store where you can actually bring your own music and compare them side by side.
A similar thing applies to speakers tho it's harder to give a fair comparison considering your room isn't the same as the room in the store.


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## JDC (Jan 17, 2021)

I have had a pair of HD650s for nearly a decade. Spent over $3000 on amp/dac/cable/etc to make them unveiled, and I was pretty happy with them for a long time. However, although they scale up with the source, their tech capability is just too limited, especially in soundstage and resolution. They are solid mid-fi but no where near hi-fi nor summit-fi. That said, I've been searching for an upgrade to the HD650s but in vain. Good options are focal elex ($700 new) and clear (~$1200 used), they are better than the HD650s in almost every way, but don't have the silky smoothness and sweetness.

Neutrality makes headphones all-rounders, but as you have a developed taste in music genres, I'd suggest to build towards your preference. I have some Grado headphones and I think this brand may suit you better. Many of their headphones, especially the wooden ones, have lush yet transparent sound that is great for jazz music. Specifically, I'd recommend RS2e or RS1e. The RS2e is vibrant and young, yet retains the warm and transparent sound signature, a great all-rounder. The RS1es have higher resolution, larger sound stage, but they are more specialized. They are exceedingly good at Jazz, male vocals, full-bodied female vocals, and guitars thanks to the rich, high-res mids. However, their trebles are about average in Grado's lineup (still more detailed, but a bit darkened for a grado). Some caveats are: 1) Grado phones have detailed bass, but not as emphasized as many other brands; 2) the reference series come with L-cushion which is on-ear and can be uncomfortable to some. Using a third party G-cushion may improve the bass and the comfort. 

In terms of amps and dacs, I think you can start with Schiit magni 3+ and modi 3+. Simply no better combinations you can buy with $200.


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## WildBoar (Jan 17, 2021)

I picked up Hifiman Ananda phones last month directly through them. It was an 'open box' deal. Somewhere around $550 USD.


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## LostHighway (Jan 17, 2021)

Actually I worked off and on in high end audio for a couple decades but not in this century. I'm totally behind the shop with your ears recommendations but the dwindling number of good high end shops is making that increasingly difficult. The Minneapolis-St Paul metro area has two decent shops: Audio Perfection and Hi-Fi Sound, both have been around for decades, plus a mid-fi store with high end aspirations, StereoLand. I just moved back to Minnesota in the later half of 2018 and was working savage hours from the beginning of 2019 up to covid so I'm not too sure on what is currently available locally.
Back in the 20th C I did prefer Grados to Sennheisers, at least for rock. I found them less comfortable and arguably less accurate but more fun.

Edit: For those not in the know Minnesota has rivaled Colorado as an epicenter for high end audio. Audio Research, Atma-Sphere, Magnepan, and Bel Canto are all based here. Wadia was founded just across the river in Wisconsin. Also there have been several very good smaller brands that have come and gone.


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## JDC (Jan 17, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> Actually I worked off and on in high end audio for a couple decades but not in this century. I'm totally behind the shop with your ears recommendations but the dwindling number of good high end shops is making that increasingly difficult. The Minneapolis-St Paul metro area has two decent shops: Audio Perfection and Hi-Fi Sound, both have been around for decades, plus a mid-fi store with high end aspirations, StereoLand. I just moved back to Minnesota in the later half of 2018 and was working savage hours from the beginning of 2019 up to covid so I'm not too sure on what is currently available locally.
> Back in the 20th C I did prefer Grados to Sennheisers, at least for rock. I found them less comfortable and arguably less accurate but more fun.
> 
> Edit: For those not in the know Minnesota has rivaled Colorado as an epicenter for high end audio. Audio Research, Atma-Sphere, Magnepan, and Bel Canto are all based here. Wadia was founded just across the river in Wisconsin. Also there have been several very good smaller brands that have come and gone.


Never realized Minnesota has so many audio things going on, good to know!
By the way the e series can be quite different from the old grados, so worth a try if you decide to shop with your ears.


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## Knivperson (Jan 17, 2021)

I heard the Devialet Gold Phantoms in stereo once (while high). It was a life changing experience!


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## Chuckles (Jan 17, 2021)

I am into closed cans these days to escape the lockdown. Someone close to me has gone down the Sennheiser rabbit hole. He has 6xx with a balanced cable, 5k DAC using the PEQ to reduce the veil. But for jazz, especially things like a brush on snare, I believe he goes AKG. Also gives a great report on the hifiman Sandara for critical listening.

I use a Qudelix DAC for headphones and for running audio off my computer and it is a great little device. Seems you are on the next level tho.


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## LostHighway (Jan 17, 2021)

Chuckles said:


> I am into closed cans these days to escape the lockdown. Someone close to me has gone down the Sennheiser rabbit hole. He has 6xx with a balanced cable, 5k DAC using the PEQ to reduce the veil. But for jazz, especially things like a brush on snare, I believe he goes AKG. Also gives a great report on the hifiman Sandara for critical listening.
> 
> I use a Qudelix DAC for headphones and for running audio off my computer and it is a great little device. Seems you are on the next level tho.



Where I am right now is probably a step behind you, at least with regard to cans. IME cans are kind of a they work or they don't situation (and when they don't it is usually just wiring/connections) so I'm less worried about repairability but I think Harmon now owns AKG so that is a knock against them for me. I'll have to look into Hi-FiMan I've never heard any of their products. Have you found a closed can that doesn't sound closed in and isn't uncomfortable?
Fascinating how many people are into kitchen knives/food/drink + bicycles + music/audio gear.


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## MarcelNL (Jan 17, 2021)

My advice would be to read up on headphones on head-fi.org.

For speakers, well don't ask me for anything with a low WAF or under 8ft*8ft, I can however urge you to check if you could in-wall mount some full range chassis (so that the back wave goes into a different room that gets audio for free).
For a DAC, I'd first find out if you go for a non oversampling or oversampling DAC and take it from there...there are some GREAT DACs out there in the price range you mentioned..

It all starts with what source you plan on using AND what amplification ?


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## MarcelNL (Jan 17, 2021)

also at what volume do you typically listen (with speakers)


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## kbright (Jan 17, 2021)

Maybe consider Stax electrostatic headphones (from Japan!). 
Also, consider used high-end equipment. Just like Japanese kitchen knives, there are B/S/T forums where people "catch and release" high-end audio equipment. Most people don't abuse expensive stuff. 
try audiogon.com


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## Chuckles (Jan 17, 2021)

I am using ESS 422H with aftermarket Sure 1540 pads. Super comfortable even with glasses on. Amazing sound for the money and interesting build. A little on the heavy side (physically not sonically) but I really like them for desk use.





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ESS 422H Hybrid Headphones | ESS Laboratories, LLC







esslabsusa.com


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## LostHighway (Jan 17, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> My advice would be to read up on headphones on head-fi.org.
> 
> For speakers, well don't ask me for anything with a low WAF or under 8ft*8ft, I can however urge you to check if you could in-wall mount some full range chassis (so that the back wave goes into a different room that gets audio for free).
> For a DAC, I'd first find out if you go for a non oversampling or oversampling DAC and take it from there...there are some GREAT DACs out there in the price range you mentioned..
> ...



It has been a *long *time since I sat down with good decibel meter but IIRC my listening levels (averaged) tended to range from the mid 70s dB range (if listening fairly quietly) ranging up to the low 90s (again averaged) if listening at "high" volumes. This is measured in room at the listening position with the speakers two to four meters away. Probably 78 - 82 dB is where I did most of my listening.

I have zero interest in giant speakers, maybe thirty years ago but not today.

Edit: Amplification is currently in flux. I have been using an ARC 100.2 (solid state circa 2000) amplifier for speakers.
I did like Stax phones circa 2000, haven't heard recent production.


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## MarcelNL (Jan 17, 2021)

nowadays a fairly good approximation of SPL can be had from an app! The beauty of in wall mounting full range speaker(s) is that you don't have a cabinet at all and you will not have any 'boxiness' that usually comes with sealed or bass reflex designs. Desired SPL and low end both drive the required surface area, what you indicate is easily doable in various ways.


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## inferno (Jan 17, 2021)




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## MarcelNL (Jan 17, 2021)

which one is cheech?


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## LostHighway (Jan 17, 2021)

inferno said:


>



Jeckin Float! I definitely remember them but never heard a pair.


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## LostHighway (Jan 17, 2021)

MarcelNL said:


> nowadays a fairly good approximation of SPL can be had from an app! The beauty of in wall mounting full range speaker(s) is that you don't have a cabinet at all and you will not have any 'boxiness' that usually comes with sealed or bass reflex designs. Desired SPL and low end both drive the required surface area, what you indicate is easily doable in various ways.



Off topic:
I'm not sure that I buy that but the only wall mount (other than some cheap AV speakers) infinite baffle system that I've heard was truly vintage, mostly Bozak system circa early 1960s. I confess to being a bit skeptical of vintage systems. Most of what I've heard were horn loaded: Klipsch, Altec, JBL, Lowther, and ElectroVoice systems primarily from the 1960s and 1970s (a few from the '50s) - they were all fairly colored and/or bandwidth limited but some markedly better than others. I've never heard the pre-War stuff like Western Electric field coil speakers or Klangfilm theater horns (very rare in America). I think the only modern horn systems I've heard were Avantgardes which I thought were much better than the vintage gear. Horns and wall mount infinite baffles are both non-starters in my current home.


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## LostHighway (Jan 17, 2021)

Chuckles said:


> I am using ESS 422H with aftermarket Sure 1540 pads. Super comfortable even with glasses on. Amazing sound for the money and interesting build. A little on the heavy side (physically not sonically) but I really like them for desk use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting! I'll have to check out the speaker repair place in Roseville that they list as a dealer.


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## dafox (Jan 17, 2021)

Had some Steriophile "c and d" equipment back in the 80's and 90's, nice car audio in the 00's, with a large cd collection, now listen to jazz via Pandora on a pair of Audioengine powered bluetooth speakers and sharpen knives and cook


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## TB_London (Jan 17, 2021)

I haven’t spent the big money, but have AKG k703 cans with a creed canamp that was a real step up for me with headphones.

Speaker wise I like the sound of my KEFs and also have some Anthony Gallo that give a lot of sound from a small footprint

Father in law has a full Naim set up that sounds awesome but needs space to appreciate


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## GoodMagic (Jan 17, 2021)

You might want to check out The Music Room. Great used gear, they have several choices in phones you might like including sta, audeze, focal etc. for speakers I really like KEF ls50, or if you have the room Maggie’s 0.7. another great choice would be Zu Audio dirty weekend. Cant help with Dac, I still use my old ayre qb9, but looking at mytek Brooklyn bridge. Enjoy the hunt.


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## SeattleB (Jan 18, 2021)

The biggest difference I've seen in audio recently is the new sound processing that can be done to correct for room inadequacies. I was was amazed at the difference that DIRAC processing can make. You might read up on it. It's not merely an equalizer like Audyssey Labs or MCACC. It corrects for room sound reflections. Very surprising difference, especially if you're using good speakers. It's pricey software so the best entry point I found was a NAD 758v3. Well worth the money spent.


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## swarfrat (Jan 19, 2021)

Speaking of downsizing, I've had this urge lately to put together a system with a sort of mid-century modern/Scandinavian minimalist vibe.

Not that I have any place to put it, but I think it would go nicely in a condo or apartment.

I'd build it around a PS Audio Sprout100 integrated amp and a vintage mid-century modern console cabinet. The Sprout has a DAC and Bluetooth built in for this-century sources.

Of course, for mid-century media, there would be a turntable. An Audio Technica AT-LPW30TK would match nicely with its teak veneer finish. The stock stylus is only an entry-level conical piece but the cartridge is easily upgraded to elliptical, line-contact or Shibata.

Headphones, Grado for sure. They sound nice and the wood cans are totally in line with the vibe.

If I were putting it together for myself, I'd build speakers and match the cabinet veneers to the console using a SEAS or ScanSpeak based design in keeping with the Scandanavian theme. If it was for somebody not so DIY inclined, I think speakers from the Monitor Audio Silver series would be a nice choice.

Anyway, just sort of dreaming out loud.


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## simar (Jan 19, 2021)

Just a few thoughts:

For headphones: drop hd6xx are your best bet in that price range, i use the Focal Clear and they are fantastic but a bit above your stated budget
for dac-amps: you could look at a schiit jotunheim 2 with the multibit dac its close to your budget and they do let you audition them in home.
for speakers: you can audition the kef ls50 wireless II from a few vendors online but best to check with you local store

hopefully you get a chance to try some of the gear.


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## Evan Estern (Jan 20, 2021)

I'm a big Grado fan. I have the HF3 model, which was a limited edition model for the Head-fi forum with oak cups. At the moment they have another limited edition that is also very reasonably priced and getting rave reviews, the "Hemp." I pair mine with a Dragonfly Red DAC/Amp and do most of my listening via an iPhone X or iMac desktop. The Grado soundstage is spectacular, particularly when streaming hi res files.


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## JDC (Jan 20, 2021)

Just received a pair of ATH-ADX5000, which is a top of the line headphone. Did a quick comparison with my Grado rs1e. While the the ATH improves in most aspects, the mid range of the rs1e is just unbeatable, especially for male vocals and laid-back jazz, so good...

BTW, you have to get these 3rd party G-cushions if buying the rs1e: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071VXQNR9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 20, 2021)

I used to have great speakers on stands. About 15 years ago went to stereo store that had towers lined up you could listen to diff. Pairs.
I brought CD. Baroque chamber music, Joni Mitchell, and Dire Straights. Listen to all the speakers liked the Canadian PSB towers no contest. At first set up quad system with my older stand speakers in back & PSB towers in front. Eventually gave stand speakers away to a friend. The PSB towers have excellent mid & top end range with a tight bass. Later because of this forum added a sub woofer mainly for movies. When listen to music at night take the grills off sit in sweet spot.

Agree for home towers listen to them before buying. Get what YOU like the best. Also it is a one time purchase if you get it right. Speakers can last for many decades if you take care of them. 

My humble setup.




 

Put a quality fake orchid on sub & Humpback whales on one of the towers.


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## panda (Jan 21, 2021)

benchmark dac1 + audio technica ad2000
speakers go active bookshelves, atc scm10-2 they hit hard too.


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## JDA_NC (Jan 26, 2021)

I purchased a Sennheiser HD 58x a few months back. Super happy with them and I highly recommend them for anyone trying to dip their toes into more expensive headphones. I'm not a huge audiophile but I really enjoy their sound and I find them to be very comfortable for long sessions - my #1 priority at the moment. They were a little tight for my big azz head at first but after a few hours they got much better. The price is affordable and I can 'drive' them from my phone or computer without the need to invest in extra equipment.


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## dafox (Aug 14, 2021)

GoodMagic said:


> You might want to check out The Music Room. Great used gear, they have several choices in phones you might like including sta, audeze, focal etc. for speakers I really like KEF ls50, or if you have the room Maggie’s 0.7. another great choice would be Zu Audio dirty weekend. Cant help with Dac, I still use my old ayre qb9, but looking at mytek Brooklyn bridge. Enjoy the hunt.


Just discovered I live a few minutes away from the music room, oh no!


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