# I feel like a need a finishing stone



## nkbitsch (Feb 6, 2017)

Hi everyone!

I'm relatively new to whetstone sharpening, and I have have only successfully sharpened about 20 knives so far, though I feel quite confident already :nunchucks:

I have a JNS synthetic 1000 and a 6000, they are good!, but I feel like something is missing. 

I'm not sure what I'm looking for, and I don't know enough about natural stones yet to just go to JNS a buy one.

What would be your natural finishing stone of choice if you could only have one?

I have a Takeda, a Kato, and a Toyama, so only high carbon steel knives.


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## Badgertooth (Feb 6, 2017)

Prepare for a lot of answers relating to Suita stones but they really are a good option following those JNS stones and would on all three of those knives. My keep forever one finisher would be a maruoyama shiro suita but that that answer changes depending on the day of the week you ask me.


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## ynot1985 (Feb 6, 2017)

What do you feel like you are missing with the synthetics? I have similar JNS stones to you but with the synthetic red aoto too and a 300 that I hardly use. You may want to consider that first. I don't recommend Jnats unless you know exactly what you are in it for. Many here can tell you that it can end up costing you way more than your knives and no 2 stones are alike. But as a rule of thumb for beginners, get softer stones as they are more forgiving than say a harder stone. JNS has hardness on the description.. I say anything between 2-3.5 is considered soft


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## Badgertooth (Feb 6, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> What do you feel like you are missing with the synthetics? I have similar JNS stones to you but with the synthetic red aoto too and a 300 that I hardly use. You may want to consider that first. I don't recommend Jnats unless you know exactly what you are in it for. Many here can tell you that it can end up costing you way more than your knives and no 2 stones are alike. But as a rule of thumb for beginners, get softer stones as they are more forgiving than say a harder stone. JNS has hardness on the description.. I say anything between 2-3.5 is considered soft



Good advice Tony


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## Jovidah (Feb 6, 2017)

Could you describe the 'problem?'. Because now you seem to start with a solution, even though it might not be the appropriate for your problem. You've got yourself a good set of stones.
In my earlier sharpening carreer I always thought it was the stone. Turned out it was my technique. Although the finish might not look as spectacular as the natural stones, a 6000 stone should leave very little to be desired for kitchen use.


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## nkbitsch (Feb 6, 2017)

Actually there isn't really a problem. My knives turn out nice and sharp with the two stones I have. I'm probably just at the stage where I want to add a little extra finish. I know this sounds a little silly, but I also like the idea of taking the knives through more than two stones. I know that this might not add a whole lot extra to the knife, but it adds something to my experience when sharpening them.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Feb 6, 2017)

If you are talking of refining the edge (as opposed to polishing the blade in order to get a higher contrast bewteen hagane and jigane), i would get a fast suita stone.


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## XooMG (Feb 6, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> Prepare for a lot of answers relating to Suita stones but they really are a good option following those JNS stones and would on all three of those knives. My keep forever one finisher would be a maruoyama shiro suita but that that answer changes depending on the day of the week you ask me.


Inspired me to try mine. I do not know much about sharpening or edge quality, but it seemed to do a nice job. Will probably use it again.


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## daveb (Feb 6, 2017)

Maxim has a "gathering" every spring(?) at which a bunch of stones are played with. And a bunch of beer gets recycled. If you can sit on your hands for a bit that would be a great opportunity to try different stones and leave with one you like.


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## nkbitsch (Feb 6, 2017)

The gathering sound like a great way to meet the community, and try out some stones! Though I'm not sure that I can wait that long :doublethumbsup:.

I can see that Maxim has added a lot of Aiiwatani Koppa stones. They are reasonably prices, and might be a good entry level stone for finishing. Do you have any experiences with this kind of stone? I was thinking of trying out this one: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/aiiwatani-koppa-lv-3-a1194/


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## jaknil (Feb 6, 2017)

I can only say: Do it!
But be afraid, be very afraid..... it might be good or even great.

This is the way I started on jnats. With an aiiwatani koppa from JNS. 
I´ve since spent many thousands DKK on stones. 
So... this is the perfect way down the rabbit hole.


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## nkbitsch (Feb 6, 2017)

I'm afraid of more rabbit holes jaknil! Not many months ago, I was looking for a small partner to my Takeda 240 gyuto which I have had for 11 years! Suddenly I fell down the hole! Now I own several small knives, including a toyama, a kato and a dalman. I don't know how to stop myself now. Maybe I'm better off just sticking to the two stones I already have.


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## daveb (Feb 6, 2017)

The only way I know of to stop is to get married. And I can't afford that!


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## nkbitsch (Feb 6, 2017)

Haha Dave.. At least not with the current knife budget


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## Badgertooth (Feb 6, 2017)

daveb said:


> The only way I know of to stop is to get married. And I can't afford that!



Incorrect.


Queue knives with similar looking handles in a rotation on the knife rack. Separate new secret credit card. Odd cupboards full of stones. Late night stone testing. Furtive page refreshes. Selling knives to buy stones.


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## chinacats (Feb 6, 2017)

I would ask what you are currently using to flatten your stones? Also, when you need to do repairs, what do you use? For thinning?


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## nkbitsch (Feb 7, 2017)

I haven't flattened them yet, and I'm not sure how I will do it, when I get to that point. Any good advice?


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## Mute-on (Feb 7, 2017)

nkbitsch said:


> The gathering sound like a great way to meet the community, and try out some stones! Though I'm not sure that I can wait that long :doublethumbsup:.
> 
> I can see that Maxim has added a lot of Aiiwatani Koppa stones. They are reasonably prices, and might be a good entry level stone for finishing. Do you have any experiences with this kind of stone? I was thinking of trying out this one: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/aiiwatani-koppa-lv-3-a1194/



I have both an Aiiwatani Koppa Lvl 3 and the other stone I would suggest, a Takashima Lvl 2.5. 

The Aiiwatani feels significantly harder than the Takashima, and is a slower cutter. Really a harder final finisher. Excellent for a microbevel, or a fine bevel on very hard carbon (such as your Kato). The Takashima will be a little more forgiving for a beginner as it is not as hard, and will tolerate slightly wobbly angles without immediately rolling over your fine edge, which the Aiiwatani will do. The Takashima is also muddy enough to give a nice Kasumi finish. This is achievable with the Aiiwatani, but will be a lot more work.

Frankly, you should buy both as they will behave quite differently, and proved different outcomes. Maxim still has a Takashima or two at a very reasonable price.

By contrast, an Ohira Suita Lvl 3.5 will cut faster than either of the other two, gives a very fine finish to your edge bevel, and can be used effectively behind the edge as well. It will cost you big $$ though. 

Enjoy!

Cheers

J


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## nkbitsch (Feb 7, 2017)

The Takashima sounds very interesting, and might be the best choice for a beginner. This ones looks nice and even: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/takashima-lv-2-5-a1164/

Do I need to flatten the stone, or will it "work" fine out of the box?


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## chinacats (Feb 7, 2017)

nkbitsch said:


> I haven't flattened them yet, and I'm not sure how I will do it, when I get to that point. Any good advice?



Well, if you've used them they need flattening...often they need flattening oob. I would definitely suggest that you are much more in need of other stones than finishers. An Atoma 140 would be a solid choice for flattening...and maybe a 300-400 grit for thinning/repairs. Add another finisher after you've filled your real gaps.


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## nkbitsch (Feb 7, 2017)

@chinacats I'm afraid that you are absolutely right! It looks like I'm about to make the mistake that everyone is warning about. Instead of buying the jnats I will go for the Atoma 140, and spend some more hours on the stones that I have already. I might also add an Atoma 400 to thin my Takeda. A local knife shop took a good chunk of it to repair a chip some years ago, and I haven't really been able to get it super sharp since, without sharpening at a too steep angle.


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## foody518 (Feb 7, 2017)

Can also look at Naniwa Pro 400 and Sigma Power 400 for light thinning


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## Krassi (Feb 7, 2017)

for flatteneing and slurry builfing a worn down 600 Atoma is awesome 3000 ( i put it on my dmt coarse and after that it was pretty castrated and like a 1k++  ) love it ! works on my finest nakayamas and other jnats like a charm and is 100% scratch free, Slurrymaster 3000 + insta flattener.
fpr 400-1500 the watanabe ai1000 is a cashcow.. it does it all in one stone.


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## BlueSteel (Feb 7, 2017)

My Takeda gyutos LOVE my Hakka stone. Match made in heaven. Hakka leaves a great, somewhat fine toothy, gyuto finish. Tomatoes run, hide and cry after a Takeda comes off the Hakka!

Cheers,
Blair


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## Krassi (Feb 7, 2017)

My takeda mini Bunky went full berserk mode with one of my ugly nakayamas (ugly but awesome. 3 knifes are now on a level its scary with just a little touchup) Really standard Nakayamas kick it as a last stone.. well i got 8 more jnats incoming with mostly Nakayamas.. so  .., Muahahahahaaaa (super villain laughing of doom 3000 )


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## nkbitsch (Feb 8, 2017)

So, I ordered an Atoma 140 instead of the jnats. Though it's not quite the same, it satisfied my lust to buy something (at least for this week :doublethumbsup: ).

Any good advice/videos about flattening my synthetics?


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## ynot1985 (Feb 8, 2017)

use it like how you would sand wood.. always use it in circular motions to get an even surface


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## XooMG (Feb 8, 2017)

For new stones, circles or figure eights should be OK. For dished stones, I like to use figure eights to find high/low spots, then targeted flattening of sections, then finishing on more figure eights or circles or whatever.


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## Nemo (Feb 8, 2017)

nkbitsch said:


> So, I ordered an Atoma 140 instead of the jnats. Though it's not quite the same, it satisfied my lust to buy something (at least for this week :doublethumbsup: ).
> 
> Any good advice/videos about flattening my synthetics?



Jon's video on stone flattening is good. Check the JKI site or youtube.


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## chinacats (Feb 8, 2017)

Draw a grid on the stone with a pencil, when the pencil is gone the stone should be flat.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 8, 2017)

As mentioned elsewhere, if there isn't enough slurry involved to erase the pencil without contact. If there isn't enough size difference that the edge of one stone could follow a curve. If the combination of pencil and stone doesn't yield water soluble pencil marks (esp when flattening under running water).


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## nkbitsch (Feb 8, 2017)

Thank you so much for your replies! I'll try out the pencil trick!


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