# Naniwa Pro 1000, Shapton Glass 1000 or Naniwa Pro 800



## vk2109 (Apr 10, 2020)

Hello 
i need to replace my Naniwa Pro 1000 (as broke due to a kitchen accident) that i really liked, 
so taking the opportunity to either makee a change by considering either 
(1) Shapton Glass 1000
(2) Naniwa Pro 800 (as heard that the naniwa pro is more like a 1500+)
or stick with (3) Naniwa Pro 1000. 

The other stones i use are 
Shapton Glass 320 and Naniwa SS 5000 for VG10, V1, WS1 and WS2 knives . 

Any suggestion/recos amng the 3 ? thanks
Vadim


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## soigne_west (Apr 10, 2020)

My votes for the 800. Love that stone!


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## bahamaroot (Apr 10, 2020)

I like the Naniwa Pro 800. Fast cutter and silky smooth. Cuts as fast a Shapton 1k to me but feels much better.


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## vk2109 (Apr 10, 2020)

Thanks ! if using the 800 in terms of progression is that still ok to go from the 800 naniwa pro to the 5000 naniwa SS (based on the stones i have) thx


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## soigne_west (Apr 10, 2020)

vk2109 said:


> Thanks ! if using the 800 in terms of progression is that still ok to go from the 800 naniwa pro to the 5000 naniwa SS (based on the stones i have) thx



I make the jump from Chosera 800 to rika 5k no problem. You’ll be fine.


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## bahamaroot (Apr 10, 2020)

vk2109 said:


> Thanks ! if using the 800 in terms of progression is that still ok to go from the 800 naniwa pro to the 5000 naniwa SS (based on the stones i have) thx


Will be very little difference going from 800 NP than going from a Shapton 1k GS to 5k SS.


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## KingShapton (Apr 11, 2020)

bahamaroot said:


> I like the Naniwa Pro 800. Fast cutter and silky smooth. Cuts as fast a Shapton 1k to me but feels much better.


I like both, the Naniwa Pro 800 and the Shapton Glass 1000.

But if I compare the two, I would choose the Shapton Glass at any time.

I find it cuts faster, stays flat longer, I like the cutting edge it leaves better.

I even like the feedback better, but it's a question of personal preferences and habituation, I'm used to Shaptons.

In addition, the Shapton Glass has a cheaper price (at least in Germany) and has no problem with hairline cracks, unlike the Naniwa Pro.


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## Benuser (Apr 11, 2020)

The Naniwa Pro 800 offers great versatility, depending on the amount of pressure, mud, water you use. Expect an end result in the JIS1200 range. The tactile feedback is remarkable. You really feel when the very edge has been reached, or a burr gets removed.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Apr 11, 2020)

It probably comes down to personal preference. The only thing I would like to add to what other have written above is the use case. By that I mean: would you every consider stopping after you mid-grit stone (e.g. for softer stainless knives)?
If so, the Chosera/Pro 1000 will give you a slightly more refined edge compared to the other two (which may or may not be an advantage). 
If you don't stop after you mid-grit stone, I would lean towards the Chosera/Pro 800. Great stone, if you can live with the potential cracking issue.
If you were to consider other (soaking) stones as well, I'd suggest a Cerax 1k or one of the Gesshin stones from JKI.


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## vk2109 (Apr 11, 2020)

Kitchen-Samurai said:


> It probably comes down to personal preference. The only thing I would like to add to what other have written above is the use case. By that I mean: would you every consider stopping after you mid-grit stone (e.g. for softer stainless knives)?
> If so, the Chosera/Pro 1000 will give you a slightly more refined edge compared to the other two (which may or may not be an advantage).
> If you don't stop after you mid-grit stone, I would lean towards the Chosera/Pro 800. Great stone, if you can live with the potential cracking issue.
> If you were to consider other (soaking) stones as well, I'd suggest a Cerax 1k or one of the Gesshin stones from JKI.



Yes i have the Naniwa SS 5k i use afterwards. 

Thank you all. I will give a shot on the Naniwa 800


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## roughrider (Apr 14, 2020)

From all the research I've done, the Naniwa 800 seems to be very popular. It's on my list for sure.


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## tomsch (Sep 8, 2020)

Found this thread. I just ordered a Naniwa 800 and 3000 so I'll be taking these for a spin in the next week. Any idea on how they wear and how often they need flattening?


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## Ruso (Sep 8, 2020)

This depends on how flat you want em.


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## daveb (Sep 8, 2020)

SP 1000 not in the running? Would be my choice.


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## Benuser (Sep 8, 2020)

I flatten any new stone and chamfer the edges, but I happen to have an Atoma 140. Some stones have an inactive crust that should be removed before you can use them. With the Naniwa Pros it's not that common, with the Shapton Glass it's the case with every single one I've got. 
A fair chance your stones come ready for use out of the box. They dish very little, but some day you will need a diamond plate. Better buy it, if possible, sooner than later. A part of the fun with these stones is in varying mud, water, pressure. Nothing better than a diamond plate for raising mud — while you're still flattening. 
Flattening such a stone when it shows dishing is late, and no fun at all.


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## vk2109 (Sep 8, 2020)

tomsch said:


> Found this thread. I just ordered a Naniwa 800 and 3000 so I'll be taking these for a spin in the next week. Any idea on how they wear and how often they need flattening?



I have been using that setup and it's working like a charm 
on my Gyuto (V1), petty (VG10) and Usuba+ Deba (WS) ! no need to flatten very often. 


I am now just wondering if i need to add another pass with a 5000 ? i got a gouken Arata 5000 (i.e chosera) for $50 on amazon JP and wondering if need to go 5000 or stop at 3000... 
if so which type of knife would you recommend among the one above would you recommend to do 5k grit. 

so far 800-3000 is great !! 

thx 
Vadim


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## tomsch (Sep 8, 2020)

I also have a Atoma 140 so I will also do a light edge chamfer along with a regular light flattening so the dishing does not get out of control. I'm planning on some sharpening this weekend to see how the combo works.


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## kayman67 (Sep 8, 2020)

tomsch said:


> Found this thread. I just ordered a Naniwa 800 and 3000 so I'll be taking these for a spin in the next week. Any idea on how they wear and how often they need flattening?



I don't remember them needing any flattening routine. But this will obviously vary depending on the usage. The idea is the they aren't problematic by default.


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## Benuser (Sep 9, 2020)

vk2109 said:


> I have been using that setup and it's working like a charm
> on my Gyuto (V1), petty (VG10) and Usuba+ Deba (WS) ! no need to flatten very often.
> 
> 
> ...


I found the Chosera 5k an unpleasant stone. Softer than I'm used to, but above all giving no feedback at all. In your case, as you have a Naniwa Pro 3k, I can't see much improvement to be expected at a 5k level. From time to time I use a Naniwa Junpaku 8k or a hard Arkansas after the 3k, but it's purely for fun. Be aware that the 3k leaves a 4k end result.


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## Kawa (Sep 9, 2020)

From what i read, everytime the chosera 3k is mentioned it is said that the finish is a fair bit higher than the grittnumber says. So your chosera '3k' will be closer to a 5k than you might think.
Ofcourse there are 5k's that are coarser or give higher finish then their number tells you, but next to a chosera 3k it would be of little use.

I can imagine a rika 5k (which is often being said to finish around 4k?) is damn close to a chosera 3k in practise, while a superstone 5k will give your that extra shine you are expecting from 3k to 5k (superstones tend to finish higer than their number tells you).

If you want something after a chosera 3k, I would look further away than a 5k... Just to really be sure you get that 'next step in finishing' you probably aim for,


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## vk2109 (Sep 9, 2020)

Thank you very much @Kawa @Benuser. Very helpful. may look into these. But my other is really, 
how high i need to go for a Deba, Usuba, Gyuto....so far the chosera 3000 gives me very great results. Going to upper # may make the knife more brittle....

Thanks

Vadim


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## Benuser (Sep 9, 2020)

Don't think going higher does in general make an edge more brittle, but the benefit of a highly polished edge doesn't last — speaking only of double-bevelled knives, used in Western cuisine, with substantial board contact.


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## ModRQC (Sep 9, 2020)

I'll just chime in with another vote on NP800. Pretty amazing stone that admittedly leaves an ugly finish (thinning work) but works well doing everything on steels ranging from 1.4110 to AS in my experience.

Also that it's less the idea of the type of knife you want your finishing stone to work on but the steel - which also defines how relevant it is to bring it past the fine kitchen edge of 3K-5K range, or even bring it there to start with. 1.4110 I either do a full on NP800 or finish from NP800 with SP2K.

Have fun!


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## Ruso (Sep 9, 2020)

My point is not to go against the grain, but I would not recommend NP800 (chosera) as part of the progression. I find myself seldom using it. 
The stone is great on its own, and it is the stone I would keep if I only could have one. Its a very versatile.
But as part of progression, there are better 800 stones, better 1k stones, better 2K stones. And then, I usually finish on something along side 4-6K.
So, as it stands, it is not the stone I use a lot, however it is a great one.


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## ModRQC (Sep 9, 2020)

Ruso said:


> My point is not to go against the grain, but I would not recommend NP800 (chosera) as part of the progression. I find myself seldom using it.
> The stone is great on its own, and it is the stone I would keep if I only could have one. Its a very versatile.
> But as part of progression, there are better 800 stones, better 1k stones, better 2K stones. And then, I usually finish on something along side 4-6K.
> So, as it stands, it is not the stone I use a lot, however it is a great one.



Perhaps the OP would like to have specific suggestions of said better stones? I can always say there are a lot of better stones than NP3K for example, but if I don't provide with a suggestion of which, what's the point? I for one would like to hear your take on it - and add that to the legendary bulk of stones data around here.


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## Ruso (Sep 9, 2020)

Shapton Pro 1000
Shapton Glass 1000
King Hyper 1000 (from what I understand)
Gesshin 2k
And if OP is looking at more 600-800 grit then Chosera (NP) 400 is actually closer to this grit than NP800

Each of this stones are better for its grit than NP800, non of them come close to the versatility of Chosera 800 though.


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## ModRQC (Sep 9, 2020)

Funnily enough I came to like my SP1K better since I have the NP800 - it's like a numbed and dumbed down straightforward version of the NP800 that is sometimes what I need or feel like in a progression.


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## mpier (Sep 9, 2020)

SS800 and SS3000 is all you’ll ever need for day to day sharpening. I agree the SS5000 is a pain in the ass unless you use a slurry stone on it first which can change it into a great stone ok maybe not great but good. I have not flattened mine in two years and I check them frequently I think it’s more about really using all edges of the stones and that these stones are hard, I have flattened my SS400 a couple of times but it is a much softer stone.


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## Ruso (Sep 9, 2020)

mpier said:


> SS800 and SS3000 is all you’ll ever need for day to day sharpening. I agree the SS5000 is a pain in the ass unless you use a slurry stone on it first which can change it into a great stone ok maybe not great but good. I have not flattened mine in two years and I check them frequently I think it’s more about really using all edges of the stones and that these stones are hard, I have flattened my SS400 a couple of times but it is a much softer stone.


Is it a typo, or you are reffering to Naniwa SuperStone in your post? Coz SS is not the same as NP (formerly Chosera).


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## ModRQC (Sep 9, 2020)

I'd think he knows that.


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## mpier (Sep 9, 2020)

If you go to the Japanese web sites like the ones you see on e-bay for the original chosera the grit number has an SS in front of it and yes I guess I should have used the NP instead so we are both right


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## ModRQC (Sep 9, 2020)

I'm pretty sure Amazon also tend to keep the SS prefix for the Chosera.


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## mpier (Sep 9, 2020)

Just to clarify the SS is designation for that series in the model number, the supers stones are S or S2 the new chosera is P and so on


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## mpier (Sep 9, 2020)

Just because I can’t let it go lol


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## mpier (Sep 9, 2020)

Ok that pic sucks but printed on the end of the box SS3000


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Sep 9, 2020)

Benuser said:


> I found the Chosera 5k an unpleasant stone. Softer than I'm used to, but above all giving no feedback at all.


I like the Chosera 5k for razors. Not sure if it's worth the extra $ over the 5kSS though.


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## Ruso (Sep 9, 2020)

I don’t doubt you that it says SS on the box. It’s just that the established acronym, at least on KKF, for SS when talking about Naniwa refers to SuperStone. 
Its always good to clear things up to reduce any confusion.

Really sorry if this caused you any inconvenience.


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## mpier (Sep 9, 2020)

No I’m just old and crusty no big deal I’ll get it right someday lol


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## kayman67 (Sep 9, 2020)

It really depends on what's expected. For me, Chosera 800 is just better than Shapton Pro 1000, as it does perform in all areas and requires pretty much no real work after. 

Chosera 3000 and 5000 should be rather similar in use, though, just a different grit rating. In razor world, the 5000 is considered fine enough as last stone before the final finisher, whatever that might be, by most people.
At least usuba can be taken to really high grits. But it's not, let's say, mandatory. If you do use it as intended, some 8-10k will be a nice finish. I had many 8k stones, but lately I'm using Naniwa Sharpening Stone 10k more than anything else.
For gyuto, depends on usage again, alloys. Any fine structures would benefit from 5-6k usually, though Chosera 3k is just fine as well.


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## ModRQC (Sep 9, 2020)

I also do prefer NP800 to SP1K. My previous comment was aiming to say that I started to appreciate the SP1K more since I have the NP800. Good straightforward alternative. I shouldn’t have used the words « like better ». I didn’t like the SP1K much when I only had it as a med (-coarse). NP800 and SP2K have brought perspective to what SP1K does so well though. In the end however the NP800 is a much more powerful stone.


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## vk2109 (Sep 9, 2020)

Benuser said:


> Don't think going higher does in general make an edge more brittle, but the benefit of a highly polished edge doesn't last — speaking only of double-bevelled knives, used in Western cuisine, with substantial board contact.



so what would you recommend for sharpening a Deba/Usuba/Gyuto after a Naniwa pro 800 and Naniwa Pro 3000 ?


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## Qapla' (Sep 10, 2020)

vk2109 said:


> so what would you recommend for sharpening a Deba/Usuba/Gyuto after a Naniwa pro 800 and Naniwa Pro 3000 ?



Any high-grit stone of your choice. Your gyuto is of V1, which is not a million miles away from Blue steel, so you can likely sharpen it to whatever level you like. A lot of it depends what you are looking to do, how you plan on using the gyuto, whether you want any particular finish on those single-bevel knives, whether you want soaking or splash-and-go stones, and so on.

If you want to polish those single-bevel knives into mirrors, you might follow it up with your Naniwa Super 5k (which is known for polishing) and then the Naniwa Super 10k (q.v. Kayman's recommendation).

If you want a kasumi finish, the forum favorite seems to be the Kitayama 8k, but I'd suspect that alternatives exist there as well.

Or if you expect most of your extra-high-grit sharpening to be on basic carbon-steels (e.g. White, Blue, etc.), you might even jump into the natural-stones rabbit-hole (e.g. JKI's Oouchi is 6-8k grit). Or a stone that's specialized for carbon-steels, e.g. the Shapton HC Glass 8k. 

Or you might seek yet something else.

There are many alternatives, and as another user already mentioned, sharpening above 3k-5k often isn't really a requirement.

Disclosure: I personally go straight from Naniwa Pro 3k to Naniwa Fuji 8k for usuba, yanagiba, and a white-1 gyuto. Is that the right thing to do? I don't yet have enough experience with it to tell.


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## Benuser (Sep 10, 2020)

I like to go from the Naniwa Pro 3k to Naniwa Junpaku 8k AKA 'Snow-white' with my carbon gyutos. No real need, but for fun. Delivers a nice bite.


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## inferno (Sep 10, 2020)

vk2109 said:


> so what would you recommend for sharpening a Deba/Usuba/Gyuto after a Naniwa pro 800 and Naniwa Pro 3000 ?



if you want some contrast between the cladding and the edge steel - cerax 8k.
if you just want to sharpen, maybe glass 6 or 8k or pro8k. the pro 8k is really good imo.


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## vk2109 (Sep 10, 2020)

inferno said:


> if you want some contrast between the cladding and the edge steel - cerax 8k.
> if you just want to sharpen, maybe glass 6 or 8k or pro8k. the pro 8k is really good imo.



Thank you so much. By going to say 6k, does it make your Deba and Usuba more fragile ? just worried that it will end up being more brittle...thanks


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## kayman67 (Sep 10, 2020)

This is more myth than truth. Finer grits actually will close the edge, making is more resilient. 
Keep in mind that Usuba is a special knife with special cutting techniques. But that's something different.


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## vk2109 (Sep 10, 2020)

gotcha. thanks


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## Benuser (Sep 10, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> This is more myth than truth. Finer grits actually will close the edge, making is more resilient.
> Keep in mind that Usuba is a special knife with special cutting techniques. But that's something different.


Couldn't agree more. 
There must be confusion with some soft stainless that don't benefit from a high polish, like the German 4116, where edge instability occurs because of chromium carbides breaking out of the weak matrix. Edge instability is different from brittleness, except for Globals, where chipping is common.
But this has nothing to do with high polishing carbon steel.


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## kayman67 (Sep 10, 2020)

True, but not always. 
These recommendations are kinda scary. It will make sense in a bit, because I just watched this: 

So algorithms work quite well. Not scary sharp, just scary. 

Okay, so it wasn't really a surprise for me since it's not the first time I've seen something similar or read something similar (or even did something similar). Yeah, this happens to be pocket knives related, that's how the Internet works. 
Thus, the edge needs not to only be from a certain alloy, but in a certain way for problems to occur. 

And I've also encountered many time the same idea about not being worth it because takes so much effort. And I've said so myself a few times. But as a principle, the plus is definitely there and can be achieved consistently. The alloy itself won't be the only limit. 

As a side note, I've seen this a lot in relationship to steeling as well (that's a lot more damaging on so many levels), in the opposite direction. 

Anyway, my idea was in relation to usuba mainly, as the edge is quite delicate and needs to be as closed as possible in my experience, if board contact exists and also any technique will benefit if it's as sharp as possible.


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## M1k3 (Sep 10, 2020)

Interesting results. You mentioned it, but, I would like to see the same length knives tested. The shortness basically limits him to push cuts instead of slicing also.

Interesting nonetheless.


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## kayman67 (Sep 10, 2020)

I guess that's why an area was locked out basically, with tape. But results seem to be quite consistent with this from what I've seen over the years.


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## Ruso (Sep 10, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> True, but not always.
> These recommendations are kinda scary. It will make sense in a bit, because I just watched this:
> 
> So algorithms work quite well. Not scary sharp, just scary.
> ...



I do not get it. The guy in the video got 63% performance increase by using 8000grit compared to 600grit and he says that it does not worth it?


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## kayman67 (Sep 10, 2020)

Yes. It's a time thing. If it takes you 5 minutes of sharpening to cut 1000 times and 30 minutes to cut 3000 times, that's actually not 6x better. 
Obviously there's more to it, but this is a very common perspective to justify it.


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## Ruso (Sep 10, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> Yes. It's a time thing. If it takes you 5 minutes of sharpening to cut 1000 times and 30 minutes to cut 3000 times, that's actually not 6x better.
> Obviously there's more to it, but this is a very common perspective to justify it.


I understand the time angle, but in this particular case it makes no sense either. When you do your sharpening on 600grit its where you do all the heavy lifting, moving up to 8000 grit does not take 68% longer. I know that in this video he started on 1K and moved to 8K bla bla bla, but that's on him.


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## kayman67 (Sep 10, 2020)

I agree, but the argument will always be that it takes more or it feels that way on a subjective level. 
It's a bit funny with steeling, at home. Because the supreme argument is that a few seconds before cutting anything is not wasting time with stone sharpening. It's been just two days since again I was told this.


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## Benuser (Sep 11, 2020)

I can maintain my home-used carbons — from soft French to AS — by simple means: a Belgian Blue Brocken, occasionally a Junpaku 8k. Rarely have to go back to 2k. Only if that doesn't work, it gets a full progression, with some thinning behind the edge, starting with a coarse or medium-coarse. 
It allows me to have my knives in excellent condition without having to give it a full sharpening more than strictly necessary – with all the waste of material it involves. 
Speaking of steel rods: if you have a poor one — those who create a burr — it only fatigues a bit more the steel that has already failed. The benefit is very short, and expect a full sharpening to be needed afterwards. Have seen quite some vintages who were steeled to death, feeling like butter: expect some serious work on coarse stones before reaching fresh steel that's able to take and hold an edge.


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