# Carbon Steel Knife VS Stainless Steel Knife



## Billy02 (May 21, 2018)

Is carbon steel knife better for kitchen use or stainless steel, and why?


----------



## chinacats (May 21, 2018)

When you finish using your knife, what do you do with it? Do you leave it laying on the cutting board while you cook your meal or do you wipe it and put it away? The answer will determine which knife you should buy. I prefer carbon...use the knife, clean with warm soapy water and rinse with hot water...completely dry and put away. In my mind the way you should treat any knife but that is not most people's reality. The upside is that it's (carbon) easier to sharpen and will likely get sharper... and get a cool colorful patina (see the sticky for 'my favorite color, blue')


----------



## Benuser (May 21, 2018)

Nothing to add, just want to emphasise that with a lot of stainless sharpening is no fun at all.
Be aware, though, that acidic food will dull a carbon edge much faster. I have only a very few stainless left I use almost exclusively with citrus and peppers.


----------



## K813zra (May 21, 2018)

Different strokes and all that. For me the trade off of slightly more maintenance is worth it to go carbon for a number of reasons. Even low grade carbon steel with smaller amounts of carbon that are treated on the softer end seem to hold an edge that I find usable to a better degree than a lot of more basic stainless. I have a knife made of 1074 sitting on the board now that is nothing special but it seems to retain that off the stones "bite/tooth" longer than the AEB-L knife sitting beside it while the AEB-L seems to stick around at about 80% sharpness a fair bit longer, in contrast. 

As others have stated, carbon is easier to sharpen and often times takes a better edge too. I find it easier to thin too, talking mono steel. I'd rather thin a clad knife either way...lol. 

Patina is interesting too...  It makes for a good conversation starter as when people walk into your house and stand at the bar for a drink while you are using your knife they ask what the hell is up with the oil slick colors on your blade. 

That is not to say that there is anything wrong with stainless but carbon fits my personal taste better. Some semi stainless knives seem to have most of the advantages of stainless and carbon with few to none of the disadvantages. Some PM steel is quite nice and seems to straddle the pros and cons too (I like SRS15 and R2). Still like the dulling curve, if you will, of basic carbon better. To each their own. 

So the simple answer you your question is, it depends. That is almost always the answer on this forum.


----------



## Noodle Soup (May 21, 2018)

I use both but cooking is more important to me than cleaning a knife right in the middle of prep. My Shig drives me up the wall with its ability to turn red while I'm still cutting. Some of my other carbon blades are less of a problem and can survive to the end of prep. I do not find stainless blades that difficult to sharpen or that their edges are measurably less sharp than carbon. But then I seldom go beyond 3000 grit on anything.


----------



## Paraffin (May 21, 2018)

Chinacats summed it up well. Just adding a few minor points:

In a home kitchen, if you have guests that are allowed to use knives, or a Significant Other who isn't trained in knife care or just doesn't want to deal with carbon knives, then it's a good idea to keep a few stainless knives in the house as alternatives. Our knife drawer is divided into a couple of older Wusthof knives like parers and 6" utility for use by guests, a middle section with a couple of very nice stainless Japanese knives that my wife uses, and then the right side of the drawer for my Japanese carbon knives. Works pretty well... as long as I remember the "please don't touch THOSE knives" lecture for guests and visiting family with cooking rights in our kitchen.


I prefer carbon for the ease of sharpening, but I think stainless is a better choice for a few knife types that might get abused, like paring knives used for cutting string and opening packages. Or knives that are frequently exposed to acidic fruit. If I'm cutting up a bunch of lemons or oranges, I'll grab my 165mm petty knife in HAP40 semi-stainless steel, instead of my carbon 180mm petty. There are also a few vegetables that are highly reactive with carbon knives, like red cabbage that leaves a scary (but harmless) blue liquid reaction with my carbon nakiri knife, so I use a stainless nakiri instead for red cabbage.

Stainless is also better for something like a long slicer that will be left on the platter after slicing meat at the dinner table, and not cleaned immediately. As much as I'd like to use a fancy carbon sujihiki for that, I have an old stainless Wusthof slicer that gets pulled out for ceremonial holiday slicing duty.


----------



## HRC_64 (May 21, 2018)

Agree with the summary presented above:

stainless: for social occasions, fruit, petty, line knife with distractions or hazards
carbon: where... wiping knife and keeping organized is expected anyway...viz prep or precision tasks

I like to work with a short and a longer knife available,
and pick one of each is easy enough to keep handy.

Personally, I prefer mono steel carbons,
just be aware that iron is more hassle.


----------



## dafox (May 21, 2018)

Paraffin said:


> Chinacats summed it up well. Just adding a few minor points:
> 
> In a home kitchen, if you have guests that are allowed to use knives, or a Significant Other who isn't trained in knife care or just doesn't want to deal with carbon knives, then it's a good idea to keep a few stainless knives in the house as alternatives. Our knife drawer is divided into a couple of older Wusthof knives like parers and 6" utility for use by guests, a middle section with a couple of very nice stainless Japanese knives that my wife uses, and then the right side of the drawer for my Japanese carbon knives. Works pretty well... as long as I remember the "please don't touch THOSE knives" lecture for guests and visiting family with cooking rights in our kitchen.
> 
> ...



What carbon 180 petty do you use?
Thanks


----------



## Benuser (May 21, 2018)

A very down-to-earth consideration to add: you may get very simple but very effective carbon blades for very little money. Good stainless can be much more expensive, by purchase including patent rights, and by processing -- such as an out-sourced heat treatment as an extreme example with some advanced steels.


----------



## Paraffin (May 21, 2018)

dafox said:


> What carbon 180 petty do you use?
> Thanks



I misspoke, it's actually 190mm. It's a Yoshikazu Ikeda, Blue #1 with carbon Damascus cladding:

http://ptjams.com/mb/img/kitchen/Yoshikazu-Ikeda-195mm-Petty.jpg


----------



## slickmamba (May 21, 2018)

What towels do you guys use to wipe down carbon steel? I found that my towels sometimes leave scratchmarks


----------



## Paraffin (May 21, 2018)

For wiping carbon knives, I use Viva brand paper towels. It's a soft, semi-cloth feeling paper towel, doesn't scratch the blade. Wicks up moisture better than most towels too. 

This might not be economical in a commercial environment, especially if there is laundry service. It works in a home kitchen with just one meal prep a day, and I don't have to wash the towels. I'll do anything to cut down on laundry chores.
:biggrin:


----------



## Nemo (May 21, 2018)

Yeah, rougher tea towels can scratch soft iron claddings and even the very soft stainless cladding on some very hard core steels.

I switched to using terry towel cloths (old fashioned cloth nappies) which are OK, but I've recently changed to microfibre tea towels which work very well.


----------



## dafox (May 21, 2018)

Paraffin said:


> I misspoke, it's actually 190mm. It's a Yoshikazu Ikeda, Blue #1 with carbon Damascus cladding:
> 
> http://ptjams.com/mb/img/kitchen/Yoshikazu-Ikeda-195mm-Petty.jpg



Thank you!


----------



## HRC_64 (May 21, 2018)

That ikeda is 190mm nominal or actual? 
Sweet knife, btw


----------



## Nemo (May 21, 2018)

Back on topic,

Agree with above points.

Carbon is (assuming a good heat treat) easier to sharpen. It is, in general, less abrasion resistant but more importantly easier to deburr. Some stainless can be a real pain to deburr. Some are not so bad.

Carbon will patina. If you leave it wet, it will rust. So can stainless (which is really only stain resistant) although it will often pitt rather than rust. Having said that, I tend to treat all good knives the same: Rinse and wipe after acidic foods, wash and dry straight after prep. Takes, like, 15 seconds.

If you are cutting huge amounts of acidic foods (cases of tomatoes), maybe stainless is a good idea. Or get both types. Lots of both. But more carbon.

Carbon knives may discolour acidic foods before a patina sets in. Not a problem IME once patinated.

Semistainless knives are usually almost as nice to sharpen as carbon, almost as stainless as stainless and often have good edge retention.

PM steels are often easier to sharpen/ deburr than other stainless. They generally retain a usable edge for a very long time, even if they lose the crisp "just off the stones" fairly quickly.


----------



## Paraffin (May 21, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> That ikeda is 190mm nominal or actual?
> Sweet knife, btw



190mm actual. It was labeled as 195mm because knives from that city usually have an exposed machi with length measured from the handle, so it's a bit shorter than you'd expect (i.e. less the exposed machi length).


----------



## K813zra (May 21, 2018)

slickmamba said:


> What towels do you guys use to wipe down carbon steel? I found that my towels sometimes leave scratchmarks



Flour sacks. It is what I use to wipe the blade between stones when polishing too. In fact I use them for freaking everything because they are cheap and nice.

PS: My guests get a peeler not a knife. :clown:


----------



## Paraffin (May 21, 2018)

K813zra said:


> PS: My guests get a peeler not a knife. :clown:



Yeah, same here, except they also get a 6" Utility knife in old Wusthof stainless, because that's what they're used to.

There are exceptions. I have a friend who visits once a year who is a very good pro cook, and he can use all my carbon knives. I like watching him work.


----------



## mc2442 (May 21, 2018)

For most people I think stainless knives are more practical, especially with other people in the kitchen. There are some very good stainless steels out there that are not that hard to sharpen and take a great edge, comparing favorably to carbon steels. Stainless clad knives are a good option as well, easier maintenance than full carbon blades.

That being said, I seem to have drifted to a majority of stainless clad carbon or monosteel carbon (not really intentionally but thinking thru the knives I have out), though mine are not that reactive. I definitely think you need xx length petty in stainless steel for citrus or other acidic things if you choose to go carbon on your main gyuto.

And considering there is a very long thread devoted to blue patina on carbon knives, there is definitely an appeal to them. That is mainly from proteins though, a lot of patinas are not as attractive in darker colors. Character yes, appealing to all, no.


----------



## Nemo (May 22, 2018)

mc2442 said:


> For most people I think stainless knives are more practical, especially with other people in the kitchen.



This is true, however on this forum, we are not most people. The more of a knife-nut I've become, the more I find myself using carbon knives.

Keep your old (before you became a knife-nut) knives for people who do not respect good steel and sharp edges.


----------



## mc2442 (May 22, 2018)

Nemo said:


> This is true, however on this forum, we are not most people. The more of a knife-nut I've become, the more I find myself using carbon knives.
> 
> Keep your old (before you became a knife-nut) knives for people who do not respect good steel and sharp edges.



I just threw it out there as the OP was new to the forum and the answers seemed to be very carbon heavy (not that there is anything wrong with that). I was not trying to steer them away from carbon, but from other posts there are a lot of knuts that think certain SS with proper heat treats are very close to carbon with a lot less maintenance. I have gifted stainless clad knives to people who swear they take good care of them only to have me take them back and gift a SS knife in its place. I have had some rust on my carbon knives from living too near the ocean at a previous location, and I took very good care of them...just left certain ones unused for too long.

There are definitely folks on this website take the collection and use/care of kitchen knives and stones to another level. I definitely have more knives than I should as a home cook and want to try a lot more. I keep meaning to sell more of mine but it is so much easier and fun to just buy more to try.


----------



## K813zra (May 22, 2018)

I've not found a stainless that I think is close enough to carbon in enough aspects to use it daily. Ginsan would probably be the closes, for me. Semi stainless even closer but still not there. I can however understand the idea of a stainless petty or gyuto or what not if you are talking about doing cases of citrus a day but for occasional acidic items not so much. My go to petty is also mono carbon and a fairly reactive one too. 

For me it is all about the dulling curve. Not so much absolute edge retention but how fast that first 5-10% of off the stones sharpness is lost. I find that carbon holds that off the stones keen edge longer, for me, than any stainless or PM I have tried to this point. The reverse is true in a fair few cases about holding an edge in the 80-90% range though. But for me that is not sharp. :rofl2:

That said, if I were gifting a knife to 99% of the people I know it would be a softer stainless one.


----------



## Nemo (May 22, 2018)

mc2442 said:


> I just threw it out there as the OP was new to the forum and the answers seemed to be very carbon heavy (not that there is anything wrong with that). I was not trying to steer them away from carbon, but from other posts there are a lot of knuts that think certain SS with proper heat treats are very close to carbon with a lot less maintenance. I have gifted stainless clad knives to people who swear they take good care of them only to have me take them back and gift a SS knife in its place. I have had some rust on my carbon knives from living too near the ocean at a previous location, and I took very good care of them...just left certain ones unused for too long.



I'm not disagreeing with you. There are some very good stainless knives around. I was more observing that I've gravitated towards using my carbon knives more (for reasons that I'm not 100% certain of) as I've gotten more into kitchen knives.


----------



## K813zra (May 22, 2018)

Idk about others but I am fully willing to admit that perception is a big part of why I like one thing or another. Be a difference perceived or practical it still exists in my mind.


----------



## Interapid101 (May 22, 2018)

K813zra said:


> Idk about others but I am fully willing to admit that perception is a big part of why I like one thing or another. Be a difference perceived or practical it still exists in my mind.



+eleventybillion


----------



## Keith Sinclair (May 22, 2018)

A Takamura R2 is between carbon & stainless clad carbon core knives on my magblock. It is for Janice but I use it too. At first she would not touch my carbons. Now she uses my white steel petty and small Carter on a regular basis. Also have a Tanaka 240mm ginsan lite. She does not use because it is too big. 

Most people would advise go with quality stainless fond of the powder steels and ginsan. However they can be relatively expensive it's hard to sell the masses on a 200.00 knife. Stainless clad carbon is a good option. The R2 has slightly better edge retention than some of my carbons and it is easy to sharpen can't argue with that.


----------



## Xenif (May 22, 2018)

I personally love the asthetics to iron clad/carbon core knives, but they can be impractical at times, as they are often the most reactive. Stainless/Semi-SS far easier to manage if you ever have to stop and go, say have kids to manage while cooking. 

That being said I just tried Heiji Semi-Stainless recently and its now my fav steel, although not exaclty stainless as it tarnishs (but not rust) easily.


----------



## K813zra (May 22, 2018)

Xenif said:


> I personally love the asthetics to iron clad/carbon core knives, but they can be impractical at times, as they are often the most reactive. Stainless/Semi-SS far easier to manage if you ever have to stop and go, say have kids to manage while cooking.
> 
> That being said I just tried Heiji Semi-Stainless recently and its now my fav steel, although not exaclty stainless as it tarnishs (but not rust) easily.




I too like a good iron clad carbon knife and particularly in KU (with a d ho handle). That mix of dark rustic finish with a light handle that takes on a semi dark/worn look with use plus a patina on the exposed iron cladding below the KU just stands out to me.  

Kids, meh, I have dogs, poultry, goats and all kinds of other things to keep me busy and none of them make me stop cutting.  And they eat all of my scraps too!


----------



## Billy02 (May 30, 2018)

Paraffin said:


> I misspoke, it's actually 190mm. It's a Yoshikazu Ikeda, Blue #1 with carbon Damascus cladding:
> 
> http://ptjams.com/mb/img/kitchen/Yoshikazu-Ikeda-195mm-Petty.jpg



What about this steel, is it same like stainless steel or carbon steel,


----------



## chinacats (May 30, 2018)

Billy02 said:


> What about this steel, is it same like stainless steel or carbon steel,



LOL, is not even real steel


----------



## zitangy (Jun 4, 2018)

its real steel all right ........hardened to HRC 55 only ..


----------



## milkbaby (Jun 4, 2018)

Billy02 said:


> What about this steel, is it same like stainless steel or carbon steel,



That is 99.9% guaranteed to be cheap Pakistani or Indian carbon steel damascus. In general, the quality is very low. It is likely a 15N20 and 1095 or 1084 mix (all carbon steel) but possibly other steel or even scrap metal of unknown composition. I wouldn't trust that the hardness values, which are low to begin with, are as advertised either. It won't hold a good edge for very long. The geometry is probably not optimal for kitchen work from what I've seen of this type of knife in person. These are basically made for looks, the type of cheap knives sold at the flea market.


----------



## Benuser (Jun 4, 2018)

In this case I wouldn't even discuss whether it will hold any edge. I'm quite sure it won't take any.


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 4, 2018)

milkbaby said:


> That is 99.9% guaranteed to be cheap Pakistani or Indian carbon steel damascus. In general, the quality is very low. It is likely a 15N20 and 1095 or 1084 mix (all carbon steel) but possibly other steel or even scrap metal of unknown composition. I wouldn't trust that the hardness values, which are low to begin with, are as advertised either. It won't hold a good edge for very long. The geometry is probably not optimal for kitchen work from what I've seen of this type of knife in person. These are basically made for looks, the type of cheap knives sold at the flea market.



But it's not pre-laminated, so it must be good! :rofl2:


----------

