# Doing a Kasumi finish using only synthetic stones?



## lagrangeL2 (May 5, 2017)

Hi folks,

I have no experience in making a kasumi finish using ONLY synthetic stones, and would like to canvas your thoughts and experiences on the task. A contrasted, or a shiny and fine finish are OK. 

I would like to make the thread open ended, anything from stone combinations to...opinions on the idea are OK really. 

Personally, I'm wondering what a Shapton Glass 16000 (white) or a...King 10000 would accomplish?

Thanks all.


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## dwalker (May 5, 2017)

JNS synthetic Aoto is pretty good. 2k - 4k. I think you would not get much contrast with the stones you listed.


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## foody518 (May 5, 2017)

Suehiro Rika 5k will get some decent contrast - work the mud


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## Dave Martell (May 5, 2017)

Some synthetics do a decent job on the contrast thing but not always the same on every knife, you sort of have to experiment with the specifics.

Having said that, there are some general safe bets....

Gesshin 400x - dull, very even for this grit level, decent base to move onto other stones

King 800x - dull, dark, decent base to move onto other stones

Suehiro Rika 5k - medium but sometimes light

Synthetic Aoto - sometimes great contrast, sometimes all mirror


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## Dave Martell (May 5, 2017)

lagrangeL2 said:


> Personally, I'm wondering what a Shapton Glass 16000 (white) or a...King 10000 would accomplish?




Glasstones are soulless stones, they just move metal. 

King 10000x? Is this sold under the name "Ice Bear"? If so it's actually an 8k Kitayama


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## Krassi (May 5, 2017)

The JNS red Aoto is really good for this and the Shapton Glass 16000 is the most soulless piece of Stone in the Universe.. it wins the "No feedback Goldmedal"..
The Kitayama is pretty good and behaves like a Natural..

Yep good tips from the guys before me


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## JBroida (May 5, 2017)

for what its worth, that is specifically what i have this stone for:
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...shi-medium-stones/products/gesshin-jinzo-aoto


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## Framingchisel (May 5, 2017)

I have gotten excellent results with this stone,sometimes after King 800 sometimes not. I am speaking only of finish here, not edge refinement etc.


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## ThEoRy (May 5, 2017)

JBroida said:


> for what its worth, that is specifically what i have this stone for:
> https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...shi-medium-stones/products/gesshin-jinzo-aoto



Me too.

The combo I use for blade roads includes in this order:

Gesshin 400

King 800

Gesshin Jinzo Aoto.

The results are as follows.






The knife is a Gesshin Hide 210mm Kamagata Usuba.


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## Badgertooth (May 6, 2017)

Bester 400 > King 800 > king Hyper 1000 > Takenoko


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## StonedEdge (May 7, 2017)

Is there a technique whereby you can polish the core steel (on a wide bevel like the yanagiba above) using a higher grit stone to a much higher "shine" while leaving the softer clading work done by an x800 or aoto untouched?


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## foody518 (May 7, 2017)

You could probably do some level of cheating with a hamaguri edge. With going back to the low grit using really light pressure. Finger stones or collecting the mud on a cloth or piece of cork are also possibilities


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## labor of love (May 7, 2017)

I want to see a takenoko finish. Anybody have a recommendation for a finisher after jns or jki synth stone?


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## Badgertooth (May 7, 2017)

labor of love said:


> I want to see a takenoko finish. Anybody have a recommendation for a finisher after jns or jki synth stone?



I'll hook one up this week.


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## StonedEdge (May 8, 2017)

foody518 said:


> You could probably do some level of cheating with a hamaguri edge. With going back to the low grit using really light pressure. Finger stones or collecting the mud on a cloth or piece of cork are also possibilities



I guess my next purchase will be some finger stones....


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## foody518 (May 8, 2017)

StonedEdge said:


> I guess my next purchase will be some finger stones....



I think stone mud on a cloth would probably work fine too for the more budget option. Especially if you've got a muddy medium/medium fine stone that you're willing to just slurry up a bit to wipe off and keep the mud. Just play around with drier/wetter slurry to see how they work differently in your particular case. Haven't done this over all the cladding yet nor gone into fingerstones (vs just using a bit of collected stone mud on small squares of cork board or cloth for taking off spots of light rust or patina that's gone blackish), as I've not worried about keeping the super high polish on the core steel (yet) and have thus far been happy with the level of contrast, tooth, and polish left by my 'kasumi finish' stones

If I recall correctly, Jon's video on single bevel sharpening has him going back to a Monzento to blend in the bevels after taking the edge up to the fine grits on a yanagiba, could look at that and see if the visuals shown there are what you are looking for


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## lagrangeL2 (May 9, 2017)

Dave Martell said:


> King 10000x? Is this sold under the name "Ice Bear"? If so it's actually an 8k Kitayama



I saw the one on Workshopheaven.*** too, but i'm refering to a 6000/10000 King on Amazon for...104$? Can't find it anymore, but i'll take a look on cashed pages (I could have mis-read it perhaps). The King or the Shapton would have been my first entry into a synthetic with a grit higher then 6000. I may go with the Kitayama, it seems that members' experiences with it are positive.

Regarding the Gesshin Jinzo Aoto, I'd read on the JKI site that it might leave scratch patterns (if you're not careful?). Has this happened to anyone? Also, the JNS Red Aoto is 2-4k...out of curiosity, is the Gesshin Aoto also a blend of grits?


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## lagrangeL2 (May 9, 2017)

foody518 said:


> I think stone mud on a cloth would probably work fine too for the more budget option. Especially if you've got a muddy medium/medium fine stone that you're willing to just slurry up a bit to wipe off and keep the mud. Just play around with drier/wetter slurry to see how they work differently in your particular case. Haven't done this over all the cladding yet nor gone into fingerstones (vs just using a bit of collected stone mud on small squares of cork board or cloth for taking off spots of light rust or patina that's gone blackish), as I've not worried about keeping the super high polish on the core steel (yet) and have thus far been happy with the level of contrast, tooth, and polish left by my 'kasumi finish' stones
> 
> If I recall correctly, Jon's video on single bevel sharpening has him going back to a Monzento to blend in the bevels after taking the edge up to the fine grits on a yanagiba, could look at that and see if the visuals shown there are what you are looking for



Takeshi at Aframes does something similar. He sands some powder off an Uchigumori, sieves it, tosses it in water, and uses the less saturated fraction (along with some water-proofed sandpaper). Good times.


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## GorillaGrunt (May 10, 2017)

StonedEdge said:


> Is there a technique whereby you can polish the core steel (on a wide bevel like the yanagiba above) using a higher grit stone to a much higher "shine" while leaving the softer clading work done by an x800 or aoto untouched?



I don't know about a stone, but I tried essentially this with sandpaper - using the very high grits only as close to the cladding line as I could stay. The result was all right in that the core steel near the edge was shinier than the rest of the wide bevel, but it took a while and would never be mistaken for contrast from a single stone.


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## StonedEdge (May 11, 2017)

GorillaGrunt said:


> I tried essentially this with sandpaper - using the very high grits



What grit range did you use? Thinking of trying this out.


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## GorillaGrunt (May 11, 2017)

Starcke Matador - 1500 through 7000 grit, bought from Amazon. I believe these are proprietary grit ratings, not standard, and the 7k is somewhere around 2 microns. Use it wet for polishing.


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## Badgertooth (May 12, 2017)

labor of love said:


> I want to see a takenoko finish. Anybody have a recommendation for a finisher after jns or jki synth stone?



Toyama was super scuzzy and needed some love
Not really sure what's happening with the cladding at the beginning of the upsweep into the tip on the omote side but it just seems to shine up more than the other cladding, irrespective of stone. It has tsubaki which makes the contrast look better but the photos are otherwise unaltered.


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## malexthekid (May 13, 2017)

So that is done purely on stones? No fingerstones or sandpaper?


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## Badgertooth (May 13, 2017)

The dark grey banding and core all the way to the edge is purely stone work. The lighter cladding all the way to the spine is silicone carbide on balsa.


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## labor of love (May 13, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> Toyama was super scuzzy and needed some love
> Not really sure what's happening with the cladding at the beginning of the upsweep into the tip on the omote side but it just seems to shine up more than the other cladding, irrespective of stone. It has tsubaki which makes the contrast look better but the photos are otherwise unaltered.



Thanks for the pics!


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## Renzwerkz (Sep 26, 2021)

This one on synthetic stone.. ended on King KDS 6K.. its the only highest grit i owned..


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## Renzwerkz (Sep 26, 2021)

This one also, masakage yuki.. kasumi finish on synthetic stone...


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