# WIP - Forging



## jessf

My trip to China rekindled the interest in forging. I'd like to improve on forging from blanks that look less and less like finished profiles. My goal is to only profile the finished edge on the grinder.

I picked up some 1084 in both 1/4x2" and 3/16x1.5". I'm going to cut the same blank from each piece of steel and see how big of a knife it will make.




what you might call the cutting edge on his 3/16x1.5" blank is 4" long.




it's about 3 degrees celsius here but after swinging the hammer for a bit you warm up just fine.




burners get a bit frosty after prolonged use.




After an hour of forging, one MAP tank ran out, so I took that as a sign to stop for now. When I started all this pseudo forging with the first nakiri I had only one MAP torch and brought the second one in half way through. The tanks are never equally full and as one runs out I replace it and wait for the other to run out. I've ordered a proper 2 burner propane forge and it should be here in a few weeks. By then the temperature outside will be nicer and I'll have a much better setup. The edge is now 7' long. When the new forge comes I'll continue stretching it out and getting a bit more height. It might be a slicer it might be another gyuto.


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## merlijny2k

Hell yeah!


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## Lawman

Is that part of a hitch you are using for an anvil?
good idea.


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## jessf

It's 30lbs of tool steel i picked up at the local metal supermarket. I drilled the hard hole in a previous thread.


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## Matus

Very cool Jess. I am looking forward towards the next steps


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## jessf

Thought I'd work on the handle for a bit. Bought a piece of soapstone for the bolster. The rest of the handle will be African blackwood. The handle is just roughed out for now, I'll refine it once the blade is finished.


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## Lawman

is the soapstone heavy?
I have never worked with it before.


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## jessf

It's got some weight. The bolster weighs about as much as the wood.


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## cheflarge

Slick handle, me likey!!! :doublethumbsup:


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## jessf

It looks more like jade in person and the more i look at it and the blade i can't reconsile the contrast. I may keep this handle for another bread sword with more of a japanese flare. I'm leaning towards another grey elm handle and bees wax. I need to finish the blade before know for sure.


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## Matus

That is going to be one heavy handle, but I love how it looks.


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## jessf

I'll weigh it before it gets paired to a blade and post the results. Might not be any heavier than an integral bolster type knife.


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## cheflivengood

Do you have to seal the soap stone?


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## jessf

It absorbs oil like wood. 8 years ago i bought a 50lbs soapstone piece with a live edge/crust. Carved it for a wedding and everyone signed it instead of a guestbook. I used automotive clear coat to keep the signatures from leaching out if it got wet. In general if the stone will come in contact with water i prefer to just oil it like wood.


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## milkbaby

Everything looks good so far... Whether or not you use that handle on this particular knife, it looks really nice... :doublethumbsup:


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## jessf

Let the fun begin.













Ive never had the purchase of a tool get me this excited.


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## Lawman

that's a good looking forge
did you get that in Canada?


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## jessf

Lawman said:


> that's a good looking forge
> did you get that in Canada?



Ebay.ca $380 CDN shipped.


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## Lawman

nice buy
can't wait to see what you do with it


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## Kippington

Those series of pictures somehow had me thinking you lit the forge on your living-room carpet, with a cork board burning inside! :biggrin:

Looking forward to seeing what you can make with it!


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## jessf

started off by finishing the first blade. Letting it anneal then I'll go back out there and work on the second blank. Forge is supper hot and it's apparent I need some tongs.


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## Matus

Cool, glad to see you stepping uo the game!


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## jessf

1/4" piece is started.




first one is done and tempering in the oven. chose to do a differential hardening. we'll see if I can bring out the hamon.


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## jessf

Well there was a crack! I noticed it once it came out of the oven. Shame as I really liked this one. I suspect the forge was too hot for heat treating. Took seconds to get the blade non-magnetic where as the old forge took up to 5 minutes. Also the edge was thinner than I normally do. A lot of variables to consider. I was going to keep it with the crack and just use it for as long as possible, but then I went and smacked it with a hammer to try and take out a small bend, broke it. I will still try and bring out the hamon in the pieces that remain, always good practice. At least I got the grey elm handle done, lol.


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## valgard

Sorry to see that.


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## Kippington

That sucks man, I know the feeling. 
I assume the knife initially cracked at the cutting edge in a small arc, then cracked straight up after smacking it good with the hammer.
The crack straight up is really good news, it took the shortest and most natural path meaning your normalizing and grain size is of good quality.

It looks to me like the edge thickness/thinness had a lot to do with the initial crack. You quenched it in water right? The thin steel along the edge cools so much faster than the rest of the mass above it, it turns to hard martensite before the rest changes, and so it cracks when the spine decides to pull up.

You might have to keep the edge a little thicker or perhaps change your quenching style.

A while ago I drew a heat-map for all the cracks I used to get while quenching in water. The red areas are put under the most bending stress during the drop in temperature and as a result the cracks tend to move in curves. Even if it doesn't help, I think it's interesting to look at:







I've come a long way since then but it took something like 15 scrapped blades before it stopped happening. Better luck with your next one!


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## milkbaby

Mini-nakiri or herb chopper in the works?


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## Matus

That is a pity indeed - that was going to be one cool knife. Wish you better luck with the next one.


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## jessf

Thanks guys. And thanks kippington for the diagram. I did qunech in brine, yes. Flew too close to the sun. My edge was almost half as thick, at its thickest, as i normally do so i bet that's a huge factor. Also didnt help being -8 outside when i did it. I was rushing the whole process. They say we're getting a huge dump of snow so i won't be back at this until another week if im lucky. In the mean time ill pick up tongs and maybe make a few more elm handles.


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## cheflivengood

So can I get on your list for late 2018? haha


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## jessf

Ha. if the snow ever leaves.


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## jessf

Time to start over. Snow melted for a day and the temps hung around zero.






Cutout four starter sticks. Tried two at a time; heating one while beating the other. Two at a time is too hard on the shoulder right now so i focused on one blade.


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## Matus

:thumbsup:


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## Kippington

I once tried two at a time as well - it felt so frenzied, rushed and stressful. Never again!

Working on one, there's a real peace and calm while waiting for the work-piece to heat up. The soft roar of the forge is relaxing and reassuring, faithfully doing it's job as I plan out my next series of moves... and the rest of the world goes quiet.

Doing two at a time takes all of that away! :shocked3:

Keep us posted!


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## jessf

Kippington said:


> I once tried two at a time as well - it felt so frenzied, rushed and stressful. Never again!
> 
> Working on one, there's a real peace and calm while waiting for the work-piece to heat up. The soft roar of the forge is relaxing and reassuring, faithfully doing it's job as I plan out my next series of moves... and the rest of the world goes quiet.
> 
> Doing two at a time takes all of that away! :shocked3:
> 
> Keep us posted!



I think once my shoulder gets stronger i may be able to draw out two at a time but more refined work requires more attention as you said. They also heat up faster as you thin things out, which just adds to the stress. I had a good rhythm but shoulder failed so i need the rest and even switched arms. It's definatly a tough racket. Working with my non-dominant arm is tricky but like anything it will improve with time. Having both arms avaiable helps to even out the burden.


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## merlijny2k

Power hammer upcoming ?


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## Matus

And I always though that hot steel is soft


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## jessf

So, last week i herniated a disc in my back. It's an old injury that comes back from time to time but only manifests as a bit of right side back pain extending down my right leg. Well, over the two weeks leading up to last week i had put my back through a lot of stress in addition to lifting a chop saw the wrong way. It all came to a head when i went to lift a half empty propane tank. I went to put it down and my legs gave out and i dropped like a sack of potatoes in white hot pain. Couldn't move legs out of shear pain. Luckily brother and father were there and lifted me to the couch, where i stayed for the day. Later that evening the pain was still too severe so an ambulance ride to the hospital was in order. I couldn't situp much less stand to get in the car. A few needles in the back later i was back home. Bed rest for four solid days, peeing in bottles, Evian, nothing but the best. Now, a week later I'm almost 100% but need to stretch it out. Needless to say my knife hobby took a back burner while i recover.

This is how far i got before being sidelined.


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## Matus

Sorry to hear that. I hope you will get better soon. Would some kind of exercise help you the strengthen your back so that you can avoid this kind of trobles later down the road?


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## jessf

It's more to do with avoiding certain movements. I'm a gym rat by nature and exercise my lower back regularly. I will do some physiotherapy and will learn some good strength training routines for this type of injury. I feel as though my general level of fitness has staved off the worst case scenario.


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## TheCaptain

Sorry about that but glad to hear you're feeling better.


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## jessf

Finshed this SOB.






















Handle is solid grey elm. Blade is burnt in and held in place with bees wax. Blade is 205mm long at the edge and 42mm tall at the heel.


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## milkbaby

That's a nice looking knife! :doublethumbsup:


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## Matus

That looks fantastic, congrats. What is the geometry of the blade? Looks to be a pretty heavy duty workhorse.


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## Bensbites

Very nice!


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## jessf

Most of my blades are convex ground where as this one is almost a zero grind with just a slight bit of convexity near the heel. It's definaly the thinest blade ive made and i like how flat i can make the primary bevel on this grinder.


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## jessf

Out of the way, onions!


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## Matus

BIG thumb up!


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## milkbaby

jessf said:


> Most of my blades are convex ground where as this one is almost a zero grind with just a slight bit of convexity near the heel. It's definaly the thinest blade ive made and i like how flat i can make the primary bevel on this grinder.



Sounds like a really good all around geometry for the kitchen, have you tried some light chopping with the stouter grind at the heel?

Looks pretty darn sweet on the board. :doublethumbsup:


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## jessf

milkbaby said:


> Sounds like a really good all around geometry for the kitchen, have you tried some light chopping with the stouter grind at the heel?
> 
> Looks pretty darn sweet on the board. :doublethumbsup:



I do a lot of heel chopping in general and with this one the food release is decent, not as good as some of the others i've made. It's more of a laser in its performance. Definitely light. I checked a bevel chart and i would say it's more of a flat grind than a zero grind as there is a micro bevel. Next one i want to make the tip a bit thinner and i think it would be ideal for me.


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## Bensbites

Pretty awesome!


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## jessf

Picked up a 3lbs hammer and some v-tongs for holding bigger stock. What for making bigger knives of course.









This one is from 1/4 stock.


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## jessf

1.5 hours of forging then 2hr cool down in the forge. Tomorrow it will be trimmed and some finer forging done. 203 long and 50mm at the heel is the goal.


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## milkbaby

Nice... how you like the tongs?


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## jessf

New tongs are great. I will modify them to hold the 1/4 stock more securly.


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## jessf

Working on my hand finishing.


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## valgard

looking good :thumbsup:


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## Matus

valgard said:


> looking good :thumbsup:



Let me correct that - Looking awesome !! :thumbsup:


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## ashy2classy

Nice work! *Subscribed*


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## milkbaby

Very beautiful results so far! :doublethumbsup:


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## jessf

Im going western on this one with a lovely piece of dark maple burl and mokume i made a while back.


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## merlijny2k

Shape appears quite precise and spot on. What you use for template or did you just eyeball it?


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## jessf

The shape has been evolving from my "not a gyuto" handle and the Bread knife handle. In this case i took the cad file for Gandknife as that handle feels the best and tweeked it a bit and arrived at this shape. The cross section also takes from my birds beak paring knife which i will show in the finish assemble. So i kind of had a template made up of several knives with handles i liked but wanted to improve. So i kind of free hand it but start from a general idea.


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## valgard

Man, that handle looks outstanding. Very well done.


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## jessf

Thanks. I drove 2 hrs to get the wood and ill go back for more for sure


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## milkbaby

Dang that handle is slick! Great looking shape and contours on some really attractive wood. :doublethumbsup:


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## Matus

My hat is off Jess, that handle looks great.


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## jessf




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## jessf

I did a count and including the knlife that broke at the begin of this forging thread i've made 15 knives. This being the 15th. Now that i've found a new local source of stabalized woods i don't wanna stop! Lol


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## cheflivengood

DOPE


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## Matus

You really should not stop. You did fantastic job on this one.


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## jessf

Thanks Matus. I think i found my flow with this one.

Also, cleaned up the makers mark as it was obscured in the last photos.


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## Kippington

Really nice! I would love to give this knife a go in the kitchen.
What length did you manage to get the blade? And do you heat treat in the forge?


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## jessf

it's 210mm long and 52mm at the heel. The new forge did the heat treating and I'm pleased with the even heating I can get with little gas usage.


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## milkbaby

That knife is very droolworthy... :doublethumbsup: Hope you don't stop making them; if this is knife number 15,then I'm curious to see what your 100th knife will look like.


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## jessf

I tried a few finger stones on this blade and i suspect they're best used on bi-metal or honyaki blades as they didn't seem to produce any results on this mono-steel fully hardened blade. In a pinch though i cut up some 320 sanding discs into triangles to use in a finger stone like application. The hook and loop backing gives your fingers something to connect to went wet sanding. Worked pretty well in the end. Ill go pick up some finer grits for later.


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## jessf

Found a 41lbs post vise for under $200 canadian. Pleased.


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## jessf

Working on the 4th starter stick i cut near the begining of this thread. More emphasis on thinness for this one. It will be a cousin to the last one as i'll use stabalized maple burl and mokume but i hope to improve on several aspects.



 

I did the heat treat late at night and turned the forge on low. I was careful to get even colour and i caught the blade just after i saw the wave pass through and it was no longer magnetic. 

The mokume will be interesting as i used a long cutoff from the first mokume about 2"x1/4"x1/4" but turned it on end and flattened it out. I risked opening up the seams by forging it, which i did a bit but only around the perimter where It will be trimmed off. The grain of the mokume will be more burl like and not perpendicular to the blade like that last. My hope is it will more closely resemble the burl wood of the handle.


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## jessf

Little bit of progress.


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## jessf

Some inclusions in the mokume but i like it, mimics the spalting in the maple burl.


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## Matus

Nice! You really took this seriously  The mokume looks very nice.


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## jessf

Thanks Matus. More focus on thinning the blade and getting out all the scratches. I put a lot of time into getting the lines on the handle where i wanted them.


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## valgard

This is really nice, you did great.
It kind of reminds me a bit of Billipp's style.


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## jessf

I do like billipp's knives but never held one. Having made fully polished knives and a few like this i can say this takes a lot more time and consideration, for me at least. I find these more challenging and will likely continue. My bench grinder broke so i finished this one on the old 3x18 belt sander. For $60 that thing can do a lot. Think i might buy a kmg grinder.


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## milkbaby

Great looking knife! Looks like you're really in the flow with the last couple ones you finished.

How are you experimenting with the handle shape? Also, what are the major differences between this knife and the one you finished last month?


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## valgard

I do like the looks a lot. Both this one and the previous


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## jessf

milkbaby said:


> Great looking knife! Looks like you're really in the flow with the last couple ones you finished.
> 
> How are you experimenting with the handle shape? Also, what are the major differences between this knife and the one you finished last month?



The differences are subtle and hard to capture on camera. The lines are cleaner on this one and the cross section is more trapazoidal than the previous one. The swell at the butt is also more pronounced on this one. You might say this handle is more Kardashian.

The blade itself is 209x49 and made from thinner stock than the previous one. The spine is 1mm thick 25mm from the tip. Also, looks like there was some copper left in the forge from the mokume as the blade picked up two little beads of copper. I must have grabbed these during the final stages of heating and straightening.


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## jessf

Made a little drive out to Woodstock. This 2hp puppy jumped in my car.


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## Lawman

nice grinder!
Will bee sell direct?
I always thought them to be very pricey.

This may be a noob question but, do you mostly hollow grind? Just noticed the wheel.


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## jessf

Bee will sell direct if you ask nice. It comes with wheel and platton, visible just below. The platton is four tools in one having the plate, slack belt, 2" wheel and 1.5" wheel. Comes with motor and to me is best bang for buck compared to KMG.


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## Lawman

really nice.
Can't wait to see what you do with it.


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## milkbaby

Hmmmm... This is some serious stuff. Ever consider rehab?


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## jessf

Referbs more like it. Though this thing weighs 110lbs so i may need rehab for my back.


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## Matus

Jess, I am very happy for you - that looks like a great machine


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