# Munetoshi gyutos anyone?



## wbusby1

I've been doing my best to bite my tongue, hype is hype. 

Has anyone picked up a gyuto from the latest batch of Munetoshi ku from Maksim? I thought Teruyasu-Fujiwara was a freak in his treatment of W#1, his knives outlasting most blue's edges and easily taking significantly keener edges but in comes Kouiti Turumaki blowing T-F out of the water in terms of edge retention. All at a cheaper price and one of the best grinds I've encountered. I am head over heels with this knife but specifically the edge retention is blowing my mind, I've never had another gyuto come 1/2 as close (almost exclusively used various makers hitachi whites and blues).

Anyone else out there experiencing this? (You can PM to avoid hype, your prerogative).


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## labor of love

Munetoshi is amazing. I'm trying real hard not to hype these things. My 240mm Kasumi is the best thing yet from maxim that I've used. That list includes 3 Katos, 3 shigs, 1 Toyama, and 1 itinomonn. I'm not sure how great the KU versions are.


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## YG420

I have the butcher knife and love it. That thing can take a beating!


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## Dardeau

I'm borrowing one of the KU now, and it's pretty darn cool. It'll be headed your way soon!


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## wbusby1

I agree, the butcher knife IS great, except for the fact that his gyutos are MUCH thinner behind the edge and retention is still just as good. :bliss:


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## Dardeau

****, this isn't going to you next, it is going to Maine.


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## labor of love

Can't wait for mune sujis to drop!


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## jimbob

Are they? I'd be keen too!


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## havox07

labor of love said:


> Munetoshi is amazing. I'm trying real hard not to hype these things. My 240mm Kasumi is the best thing yet from maxim that I've used. That list includes 3 Katos, 3 shigs, 1 Toyama, and 1 itinomonn. I'm not sure how great the KU versions are.



If I understand correctly isn't itinomonn made by the same maker or is that just the butcher knife?


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## SolidSnake03

Just the butcher, at least that's the best I could get out of Maxim regarding it. Seemed like someone(s) else does the other itinomonn stuff. Owning a few itinomonn reinforced this for me, the butcher feels like a whole different animal


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## labor of love

Never used an itinomonn Gyuto, although I assume they were pretty thin behind the edge. Munetoshi is a beefy food releasing middle weight. Atleast the Kasumi is.


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## Johnny.B.Good

This thread would be better with pictures.


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## labor of love

240mm munetoshi Kasumi Gyuto


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## labor of love

KU choil shot. http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...itoshi-introduction/page6?highlight=Munetoshi


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## bamin

The choil reminds me a bit of Heji's. At all similar?


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## labor of love

bamin said:


> The choil reminds me a bit of Heji's. At all similar?



No I think they feel pretty different.


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## Dardeau

I would agree, the bevels are more blended and the steel feels very different on the board and on stones.


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## krell

would one be able to order one of these with the handle configured for a lefty i wonder. Sent Maxim a note and haven't received a reply yet. Any opinions?


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## aboynamedsuita

Im a lefty and actually find the D shaped wa handles more comfortable to hold if it's a righty installation. There are other leftys who agree too. It can be switched but I like the groove on the side my fingers wrap around


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## brainsausage

bamin said:


> The choil reminds me a bit of Heji's. At all similar?



Heiji's have a far more pronounced shoulder/secondary bevel IME. Not a fan personally. Heat treat is great, grind is meh IMO. That Munetoshi looks pretty damn stellar from the choil shot.


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## brainsausage

SolidSnake03 said:


> Just the butcher, at least that's the best I could get out of Maxim regarding it. Seemed like someone(s) else does the other itinomonn stuff. Owning a few itinomonn reinforced this for me, the butcher feels like a whole different animal



Yeah, the two butchers I handled were nothing at all like the multiple itonomonn's I've played with.


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## skewed

tjangula said:


> Im a lefty and actually find the D shaped wa handles more comfortable to hold if it's a righty installation. There are other leftys who agree too. It can be switched but I like the groove on the side my fingers wrap around



Gosh darn it! You have me wanting to try out a lefty handle. My righties fit quite nicely in my left hand.


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## wbusby1

Maksim flipped the handle for me and i dont like it and might flip it back or just make a new handle


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## MAS4T0

I too prefer d-handles installed the wrong way.


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## skewed

labor of love said:


> Munetoshi is amazing. I'm trying real hard not to hype these things. My 240mm Kasumi is the best thing yet from maxim that I've used. That list includes 3 Katos, 3 shigs, 1 Toyama, and 1 itinomonn. I'm not sure how great the KU versions are.



How hefty or thick is it compared to Itinomonn? As think behind the edge as the Itinomonn?

Cheers and thanks,
rj


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## Dardeau

Most of the Itinomonns I've had, with the exception of one have been very thin behind the edge, as is the Munetoishi, more so than the Shifmgs and Katos I've had.


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## rogue108

tjangula said:


> Im a lefty and actually find the D shaped wa handles more comfortable to hold if it's a righty installation. There are other leftys who agree too. It can be switched but I like the groove on the side my fingers wrap around



I am a lefty who feels exactly the same was as you about D handles.


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## Matus

I am curios about Munetoshi as well. Could anyone let me know how much does the 240 gyuto weight?


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## Matus

Please let me add a few more questions 

I would be very interested how the Munetoshi compares to Toyama (in 240 size) and to some other knives, (e.g. Kochi, Itinomonn KU, hammered Yohikane SKD, etc.) in terms of cutting behaviour, center of mass, etc. I am lookig for a workhorse-ish knife that is thin behind the edge. I have Kato 240 workhorse at the moment and it is just bit too heavy and definitely too thick for everyday use for me (though it is a special knife - no question about that).

This would really help, thanks


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## skewed

Matus-

I was wondering the same. I think I saw someone post that the 210 weighs 190g. Guessing the 240 would be ~230g given the specs from Maxim. Seems like these will be a bit heavier than Itinomonn yet still thin behind the edge.

Really just guessing here. I am really tempted since I don't have a 240 that I really enjoy using as a workhorse.

Cheers,
rj


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## Matus

Hi rj, 230g would be just about right. I would still love to hear how does it compare to Toyama (or others). I am trying to avoid ordering both Toyama and Munetoshi, even though the trio (including Kato) would make for a great comparison review


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## skewed

Matus-

230g was just an educated guess. I too have been eyeing a Toyama. I really enjoy Itinomonn but would like to try something a little heftier.

My willpower broke last night and I ordered a 240 Munetoshi. I will report back next week with its weight and thoughts.

Cheers,
rj


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## Matus

rj - you are a man of action  I am looking forward to your opinion about the knife.


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## labor of love

I don't have scale but I think a munetoshi 240mm Gyuto probably weighs 190-200grams. Hopefully I'm not making fool of myself!


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## labor of love

Just weighed my 240mm Kasumi, it's 182 grams.


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## skewed

labor of love said:


> Just weighed my 240mm Kasumi, it's 182 grams.



Good lord. I am way off! Thanks for weighing in


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## Matus

Thanks for the info


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## Matus

May I assume that the kurouchi would be a little heavier?


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## idemhj

Matus said:


> May I assume that the kurouchi would be a little heavier?


You may. My 240 mm kurouchi weighs 194 g. (I'll pm you when I get to my computer.)


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## zetieum

Wow. This thread is making me want to pull the trigger on one of those. I looked on JNS. Both the butcher and 240 guyto seems very attractive. It is going to be hard to choose.


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## Hianyiaw

zetieum said:


> Wow. This thread is making me want to pull the trigger on one of those. I looked on JNS. Both the butcher and 240 guyto seems very attractive. It is going to be hard to choose.



Easy. Just get both


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## daveb

zetieum said:


> Wow. This thread is making me want to pull the trigger on one of those. I looked on JNS. Both the butcher and 240 guyto seems very attractive. It is going to be hard to choose.



The butcher is pretty specialized for making big pieces of meat into smaller pieces of meat and does a great job of it. Not so useful for board work or any kind of multi-tasking. I want to try a gyuto one day - but not today.


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## Ruso

Where do you guy find Munetoshi Kasumi? I only see KU version on Maxim's site..


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## SolidSnake03

Maxim had some Kasumi when he first brought the maker in but is only doing Ku now


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## labor of love

SolidSnake03 said:


> Maxim had some Kasumi when he first brought the maker in but is only doing Ku now



I want both versions!


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## rogue108

This thread has me convinced I should get one. The question is 210 or 240. Sounds like an excellent middle of the road knife. Middle of the road not in the quality sense but not a fad knife like a laser or super duty workhorse.

Can anyone tell me if they measure short, long, or dead on ?


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## Matus

idemhj said:


> You may. My 240 mm kurouchi weighs 194 g. (I'll pm you when I get to my computer.)



Thanks! I would love to hear more about it - a PM would be very much appreciated


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## skewed

rogue108 said:


> This thread has me convinced I should get one. The question is 210 or 240. Sounds like an excellent middle of the road knife. Middle of the road not in the quality sense but not a fad knife like a laser or super duty workhorse.
> 
> Can anyone tell me if they measure short, long, or dead on ?



Egads! I hope you figured it out because both are OOS now.


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## brainsausage

skewed said:


> Egads! I hope you figured it out because both are OOS now.



Heh! At least Maksim is getting them back in stock every couple weeks. Part of which I'm guessing is due to the lower level of finish on this series, compared to some other knives out there. Which I'm all for btw.


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## rogue108

skewed said:


> Egads! I hope you figured it out because both are OOS now.



It's probably for the better since I've been spending like a madman


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## wbusby1

I'm sorry KKF and world, it is my fault. :spankarse:


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## CB1968

skewed said:


> Matus-
> 
> I was wondering the same. I think I saw someone post that the 210 weighs 190g. Guessing the 240 would be ~230g given the specs from Maxim. Seems like these will be a bit heavier than Itinomonn yet still thin behind the edge.
> 
> Really just guessing here. I am really tempted since I don't have a 240 that I really enjoy using as a workhorse.
> 
> Cheers,
> rj



Just weighed my 240mm and it came in at 186 grams, I love this knife, best J knife I have purchased for many years, grind and HT is stellar!!
Unbelievable value at this price point a better performer IMHO than Kato and Shig, F&F is actualy pretty nice on mine, few sharp edges but no biggy
Great knife


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## Matus

CB1968 said:


> Just weighed my 240mm and it came in at 186 grams, I love this knife, best J knife I have purchased for many years, grind and HT is stellar!!
> Unbelievable value at this price point a better performer IMHO than Kato and Shig, F&F is actualy pretty nice on mine, few sharp edges but no biggy
> Great knife



Thanks. I just wanted to order one, but they are sold out and it will be 20th of July before first Maxim and then me will be back from vacation


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## skewed

Mine weighs in at 194g. The KU is nice. F&F is really not bad at all. Edge OOTB was pretty good which I used for 3 days at work then sharpen on the JKI diamond 1/6K set. The steel felt great on the stones and took a great edge very quickly. I have put 3 days on this edge and it still feels great. For comparison, I usually prefer to touch up white #2 after 2-3 days of reasonable use. I will see how many days before I feel the need for a touch up. The grind feels like an Itinomonn but just a bit heftier (no experience with Kato or Shig). So far this is a great knife for the price point.

Cheers,
rj


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## Matus

Thanks rj, your feedback just makes me want one more


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## zetieum

Indeed this thread makes one want to buy one. For you guys, however, what makes you love this knife compared to other? what are the characteristic that yo like. What I read from this thread is it is a workhouse thin behind the edge. But why is it so exceptional?


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## panda

grind: food release
steel: high density/hardness, retention, smooth sharpenability
price: self explanatory

weaknesses: reactivity, profile (personal preference)


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## skewed

zetieum said:


> Indeed this thread makes one want to buy one. For you guys, however, what makes you love this knife compared to other? what are the characteristic that yo like. What I read from this thread is it is a workhouse thin behind the edge. But why is it so exceptional?



Take this with a grain of salt since I have only used it for 6 days of work. Also, I am only a fairly recent convert from being a laser lover to being more of a workhorse type of guy. The Itinomonn knives have really impressed me due to nice heft, doesn't flex like a laser and excellent food release yet still chops very well for a very reasonable price. This Munetoshi seems like a further extension of the Itinomonn knives; a bit heftier and a bit better food release with a steel that is easier to sharpen and yet holds its edge a little longer (still to be determined for myself) all for a really nice price.

I thoroughly use my knives in a commercial setting. I don't abuse them and do take pretty good care of them (Konosuke w#2 gyuto was my daily driver for several years) but my personal price point is not much over $300. I just don't feel comfortable spending much over that on a knife that I heavily utilize and would probably baby it to the point where I am not using it as I really should. I don't think I would ever step into the $500-1000 range (of course this could change). Saying all of this, performance wise I am very happy with my Munetoshi KU 240 gyuto.

I hope that helps,
rj


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## Matus

Someone just sell me theirs finally! :beatinghead: 

... I guess I need chill out :wink:


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## brianh

Necroposting since I decided to order a 240 gyuto from Maksim but have to wait until next month to play with it. He's on vacation. Sad face.


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## skewed

brianh said:


> Necroposting since I decided to order a 240 gyuto from Maksim but have to wait until next month to play with it. He's on vacation. Sad face.



For the price point (especially with discount) it is a very nice knife. I have not been using mine very much as of late but now that you bring it back up, I will touch mine up and give a good workout this week.

Just forget that you ordered it, then when it shows up you will be surprised. 

Cheers,
rj


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## daveb

The butcher knife is one of those that I forget how much I like it until I use it. Spent a good bit of today turning big pieces of lamb, beef, into Kbobs. It does what it's supposed to zactly. Have fun with the Gyuto, anticipation is best.


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## brianh

Will also be my only 240. Always wind up selling them but with the 15% discount off an already inexpensive knife, I spurged. Will be good practice with sharpening wide bevel with less fear of scratching a more pricey knife. Still pretty new at that.


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## labor of love

Munetoshi has been my daily driver for sometime now. I wish a 270 version was available. Helluva knife. I will buy another 240mm soon.


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## brianh

labor of love said:


> Munetoshi has been my daily driver for sometime now. I wish a 270 version was available. Helluva knife. I will buy another 240mm soon.



Your praise of the mune was one of the things that convinced me to go for it.


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## DanDan

Has anyone gotten the petty? 

I saw it earlier and disregarded because I thought I was browsing in USD, but after reading this thread I went back and realized that was actually the CAD price. The 165mm length is rare enough for petties let alone at that price. Looks like it fits everything I'm currently looking for except for a darker octagonal handle (but at my price range that's pretty difficult). I've just been looking for fun lately but that 15% is tempting. Does JNS regularly have coupons?


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## brianh

JNS has coupons relatively often. Maybe every couple months? I don't wait for them though, as who knows if the knife you want will be in stock at that time, I just consider any coupon the additional nudge I need.


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## skewed

DanDan said:


> Has anyone gotten the petty?
> 
> I saw it earlier and disregarded because I thought I was browsing in USD, but after reading this thread I went back and realized that was actually the CAD price. The 165mm length is rare enough for petties let alone at that price. Looks like it fits everything I'm currently looking for except for a darker octagonal handle (but at my price range that's pretty difficult). I've just been looking for fun lately but that 15% is tempting. Does JNS regularly have coupons?



Maksim offers discounts 3-4 times a year from what I can tell. I always try to reach over the mark for free shipping when ordering from him which is a bit of a slippery slope.


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## mcritchlow

I know most have gotten the 240, but I already had that size covered so I got the 210. It's actually closer to 220, and honestly feel like the perfect size knife for most things. To me at least. The cladding was definitely reactive at first, but the core steel just took a nice patina from day one. Once things settled down a bit, it's been a non-issue with normal carbon knife care. Like labor of love, I've been using it for months as my daily knife and love it. At regular price it's an awesome deal, imo. At 15% off, no brainer. Definitely will pick up that new petty at some point


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## supersayan3

Funk!!! I have to save money, but I will shave money instead [emoji4]
I almost ordered it, and then I saw that there are no deliveries till the 10/1/17. So, I send a mail instead, but I think I will get it [emoji6]
Happy Munetoshi year opening!


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## panda

for what it's worth, if this knife had better fit & finish and a profile more to my liking, i would consider it a top 3 knife regardless of price range. the steel is quite impressive.


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## Matus

DanDan said:


> Has anyone gotten the petty?
> 
> I saw it earlier and disregarded because I thought I was browsing in USD, but after reading this thread I went back and realized that was actually the CAD price. The 165mm length is rare enough for petties let alone at that price. Looks like it fits everything I'm currently looking for except for a darker octagonal handle (but at my price range that's pretty difficult). I've just been looking for fun lately but that 15% is tempting. Does JNS regularly have coupons?



I do  It is a lovely knife. A little brother to the 240. The grind, finish and handle is like on the bigger brother. It feels wonderful in hand. I have used it for some natural stone testing (kasumi). I have not cut with it much yet - I plan to use it as a travel knife ß it has ideal size and shape for that.

The grind is concave (as on the 240). Both the 165 and 240 are not ground quite as super consistently as e.g. Kochi, butin practical terms these knives a super users. I love my 240 - it fits my cutting style better than e.g. Kato (which only reflects personal preference). I will getting a gyuto from Bryan Raquin in early 2017 - I am very curios how will these two compare, as they do seem to share cetain similarities (in particular when it comes to profile).

Both the 165 and 240 could have had their tips forged a little thinner though.


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## skewed

My 240 had a great workout today at work. Still shave sharp. Repeating tomorrow.


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## Barmoley

Has anyone used the 210 WA slicer? The longer butcher type? Looks interesting, but not much info about it. Thanks.


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## fatboylim

Barmoley said:


> Has anyone used the 210 WA slicer? The longer butcher type? Looks interesting, but not much info about it. Thanks.



Interested too in any reviews for the slicer. It looks much thinner than the butcher, but potentially a nice short Sujihiki looking knife. Very tempted by this, even in kurouchi (my least favourite finish).


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## JDA_NC

I'm almost certain that the Munetoshi slicer is the previous Itinimonn line knife/210mm suji. There was a group buy of those knives so you can find some pretty good pictures/reviews online.


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## F-Flash

I have 210 wa slicer and its awesome. Can use it as long petty and slicing portions of meat/fish and break trought small chicken bones/joints and it still stays sharp and wont chip at all. A


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## Barmoley

So it is similar to the butcher, but longer and thinner?


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## DanDan

brianh said:


> JNS has coupons relatively often. Maybe every couple months? I don't wait for them though, as who knows if the knife you want will be in stock at that time, I just consider any coupon the additional nudge I need.



I went over to the JNS section of the forum after I asked and noticed a few coupon threads. There was even one where someone asked if there would be a sale and Maksim just went ahead and offered a coupon, I find that super cool. But the point about the stock is true, especially with J-knives. Their production times and availability are often hard to predict. I'm just rationalizing now. 



skewed said:


> Maksim offers discounts 3-4 times a year from what I can tell. I always try to reach over the mark for free shipping when ordering from him which is a bit of a slippery slope.



I noticed the free shipping mark in another thread. I went back and saw that it's a much better deal to add the petty and a stone (which is what I actually need instead of another knife). I'll probably hold off for a while though. 



Matus said:


> I do  It is a lovely knife. A little brother to the 240. The grind, finish and handle is like on the bigger brother. It feels wonderful in hand. I have used it for some natural stone testing (kasumi). I have not cut with it much yet - I plan to use it as a travel knife ß it has ideal size and shape for that.
> 
> The grind is concave (as on the 240). Both the 165 and 240 are not ground quite as super consistently as e.g. Kochi, butin practical terms these knives a super users. I love my 240 - it fits my cutting style better than e.g. Kato (which only reflects personal preference). I will getting a gyuto from Bryan Raquin in early 2017 - I am very curios how will these two compare, as they do seem to share cetain similarities (in particular when it comes to profile).
> 
> Both the 165 and 240 could have had their tips forged a little thinner though.



I think those shortcomings can be forgiven at that price point. I'd love to see more detailed pictures (or even a video because I like watching them) of the petty. I know I know, it's a gyuto thread, I'd love to see that in action too. Either one would've been awesome for breaking down some beef roast into thin slices which I was doing yesterday with a Western.


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## fatboylim

F-Flash said:


> I have 210 wa slicer and its awesome. Can use it as long petty and slicing portions of meat/fish and break trought small chicken bones/joints and it still stays sharp and wont chip at all. A



That is good! Is the kurouchi finish tough like the wa butcher or thin kurouchi like the gyuto?


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## panda

after a quick touchup, i used my 210 gyuto all day and am still impressed by this knife. i am hesitant to thin it later on because i don't want to ruin its great grind.


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## skewed

panda said:


> after a quick touchup, i used my 210 gyuto all day and am still impressed by this knife. i am hesitant to thin it later on because i don't want to ruin its great grind.



I haven't thinned mine yet either which I tend to do with wide bevels before using. 3rd day straight at work with my 240 and it is still shave sharp.


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## supersayan3

I want to place an order, with the discount applied, but I get no answer to my mail, I will try again. 
Any suggestions?

Edit: Just saw that the 24 gyuto is out of stock. 
Next time.... i really want to try it.
I got into trying something like Munetoshi,
Watanabi, etc, it is the Best Buy 

Merry Christmas Everyone [emoji4][emoji484]


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## Matus

Get the 160 petty - it is a great little knife and has all the marks of its bigger brothers - lovely kurouchi, great HT, grind and a bit too thick tip


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## supersayan3

Thank you for the suggestion, but I am actually interested in 24cm and longer, workhorse testing. 
At 21cm and shorter, I prefer thinner knives.


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## Sharpchef

I just testet my Munetoshi Gyuto, Kamo To Kenyo and a Watanabe Pro Santoku, all with the same angle fresh sharpened.....
on Ohira Suita, with 36 degree.

1 small dryed pepper for each knife..... all of one kind.

Munetoshi edge rolled away, Kamo To was similar but not that heavy, and on the watanabe nothing, has to admit that Munetoshi is White 2, the other ones Blue 2.

Greets Sebastian.


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## labor of love

Sharpchef said:


> I just testet my Munetoshi Gyuto, Kamo To Kenyo and a Watanabe Pro Santoku, all with the same angle fresh sharpened.....
> on Ohira Suita, with 36 degree.
> 
> 1 small dryed pepper for each knife..... all of one kind.
> 
> Munetoshi edge rolled away, Kamo To was similar but not that heavy, and on the watanabe nothing, has to admit that Munetoshi is White 2, the other ones Blue 2.
> 
> Greets Sebastian.



36degrees?


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## bkultra

labor of love said:


> 36degrees?




I'm guessing 18 per side


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## chinacats

Still seems a bit obtuse for a performance test, no? Even then I'd guess maybe 12 on the right, 24 left? I thought these were pretty thin behind the edge? 

Sebastian, are you saying the edge deformed as in rolling like soft steel or more like micro-chipping? These knives are supposed to have a good heat treat, did you just put a final edge or go through a full progression for fresh steel?

Can you tell that I can't wait for Maxim to get back and ship these?


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## brianh

chinacats said:


> Can you tell that I can't wait for Maxim to get back and ship these?



+1!


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## Sharpchef

chinacats said:


> Still seems a bit obtuse for a performance test, no? Even then I'd guess maybe 12 on the right, 24 left? I thought these were pretty thin behind the edge?
> 
> Sebastian, are you saying the edge deformed as in rolling like soft steel or more like micro-chipping? These knives are supposed to have a good heat treat, did you just put a final edge or go through a full progression for fresh steel?
> 
> Can you tell that I can't wait for Maxim to get back and ship these?



18 degree angle per side.....

I freshly sharpened them, at the "factory" angle with about 11 degree per side (Watanabe) and maybe 14 (Munetoshi) the whole blade was chipped badly after cooking 2 meals for me and my girl (watanabe).

The Munetoshi tip broke intstantly (and i even don`t know why.....), i think these are good knives but very sensitive.

Greets Sebastian.


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## chinacats

This makes me question your machine even more. If you have problems like that with a Watanabe sharpened as conservatively as that there is a problem. I sharpen to same or maybe even more acute angles and have no problems with chipping on Watanabe (though I do sharpen it asymmetrically as intended)...even on crusty sourdough breads. I'll have to conduct my own test with Munetoshi to see if they are similar to yours or more like my experience with extremely well heat treated blue 2 by Shinichi.


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## Sharpchef

chinacats said:


> This makes me question your machine even more. If you have problems like that with a Watanabe sharpened as conservatively as that there is a problem. I sharpen to same or maybe even more acute angles and have no problems with chipping on Watanabe (though I do sharpen it asymmetrically as intended)...even on crusty sourdough breads. I'll have to conduct my own test with Munetoshi to see if they are similar to yours or more like my experience with extremely well heat treated blue 2 by Shinichi.




So which angle you choose for sharpening your Watanabe ? (I have to admit i chopped and rock chopped with his edge!) And the whole blade crumbled away. Freshly sharpened with 30 degree (all inclusive) i got no problems at all. But i tend to optimize blades, so for my cutting technique 36 degree (all inclusive) is perfect.

Greets Seabstian.


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## bennyprofane

chinacats said:


> This makes me question your machine even more. If you have problems like that with a Watanabe sharpened as conservatively as that there is a problem.



To make it clear, sharpchef had explained it on the German forum, the Watanabe out of the box edge crumbled, his own 36 degree edge did not. This was a compliment to Watanabes heat treatment.


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## chinacats

bennyprofane said:


> To make it clear, sharpchef had explained it on the German forum, the Watanabe out of the box edge crumbled, his own 36 degree edge did not. This was a compliment to Watanabes heat treatment.



But Watanabe oob edge doesn't crumble for anyone else? ***? OOB edge is irrelevant and you cannot compare first sharpening to how the knife arrived from Shinichi or any other maker

This sounds more like what people say is sharpening to get to fresh steel. OOB edge really means nothing and you can't compare your first edge to oob edge and say it has something to do with how you sharpened. This argument has gotten ridiculous...just like setting up a major rig to sharpen a knife when all you need is a knife, rock and wet towel...you guys crack me up.


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## bennyprofane

As I've said, his argument was in favour of Watanabes heat treatment in contrast to the others, not his way of sharpening...

Also, of course it's pretty easy getting a razor sharp knife free handing but will it stay sharp for a thousand meals (one work shift of rocking and chopping for shaprchef) in contrast to 700 meals (free handing), that's his concern...


----------



## Mucho Bocho

chinacats said:


> But Watanabe oob edge doesn't crumble for anyone else? ***? OOB edge is irrelevant and you cannot compare first sharpening to how the knife arrived from Shinichi or any other maker
> 
> This sounds more like what people say is sharpening to get to fresh steel. OOB edge really means nothing and you can't compare your first edge to oob edge and say it has something to do with how you sharpened. This argument has gotten ridiculous...just like setting up a major rig to sharpen a knife when all you need is a knife, rock and wet towel...you guys crack me up.



Jim I'm laughing pretty hard too.


----------



## chinacats

Sharpchef said:


> So which angle you choose for sharpening your Watanabe ? (I have to admit i chopped and rock chopped with his edge!) And the whole blade crumbled away. Freshly sharpened with 30 degree (all inclusive) i got no problems at all. But i tend to optimize blades, so for my cutting technique 36 degree (all inclusive) is perfect.
> 
> Greets Seabstian.



FWIW, I have no idea what angle I use but it's pretty aggressive (I would guess maybe 10 degrees right and fifteen left but only a guess)...I don't measure my edge in terms of how long it lasts because I never really get to sharpen often anyway (too many knives in rotation). As to cutting technique, I tend to beat the hell out of the knife 'til my hearts content

I put a small chip on my Watanabe near the tip when removing the handle after I first bought the knife. I'll sharpen it out over time...knife gets used often...been used for like 3 years and the damn chip is still working out but almost there...only chip I've ever had (including microchipping). As to oob edge I don't remember because I was so frustrated with his finish which I found highly reactive...I sanded it down and put a fresh edge...been a great knife ever since...in fact I sold my Kato that everyone raves about because I thought this knife kicked it's ass.



Mucho Bocho said:


> Jim I'm laughing pretty hard too.



Right? And I know you know the deal with these gizmos...you should set these guys straight.


----------



## TheCaptain

chinacats said:


> But Watanabe oob edge doesn't crumble for anyone else? ***? OOB edge is irrelevant and you cannot compare first sharpening to how the knife arrived from Shinichi or any other maker
> 
> This sounds more like what people say is sharpening to get to fresh steel. OOB edge really means nothing and you can't compare your first edge to oob edge and say it has something to do with how you sharpened. This argument has gotten ridiculous...just like setting up a major rig to sharpen a knife when all you need is a knife, rock and wet towel...you guys crack me up.



and for the beginners don't forget a few bandaids


----------



## panda

His blade could have been a one-off, not every knife is gonna be exactly the same with hand made ones ya know.


----------



## labor of love

Matus said:


> Get the 160 petty - it is a great little knife and has all the marks of its bigger brothers - lovely kurouchi, great HT, grind and a bit too thick tip



Thick tip like Toyama and shig?


----------



## Matus

labor of love said:


> Thick tip like Toyama and shig?



I have only used Watanabe gyuto once and that one did not have any issues with a thick tip.


----------



## supersayan3

supersayan3 said:


> I want to place an order, with the discount applied, but I get no answer to my mail, I will try again.
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Edit: Just saw that the 24 gyuto is out of stock.
> Next time.... i really want to try it.
> I got into trying something like Munetoshi,
> Watanabi, etc, it is the Best Buy
> 
> Merry Christmas Everyone [emoji4][emoji484]



Actually I got an answer, I just noticed today.
Don't know what I had been thinking at that moment, but probably put my secondary mail, which I check once every two months [emoji52]


----------



## malexthekid

bennyprofane said:


> As I've said, his argument was in favour of Watanabes heat treatment in contrast to the others, not his way of sharpening...
> 
> Also, of course it's pretty easy getting a razor sharp knife free handing but will it stay sharp for a thousand meals (one work shift of rocking and chopping for shaprchef) in contrast to 700 meals (free handing), that's his concern...



Short answer is yes... just ask any of the pros here.... plus that has more to do with steel than a jig.... plus logically to me, a more precise sharpening would infact result in lower edge retention as you will have a precise crisp point...

But you know know who brings logic to a discussion of people using confirmation bias to justify a purchase.


----------



## Sharpchef

malexthekid said:


> Short answer is yes... just ask any of the pros here.... plus that has more to do with steel than a jig.... plus logically to me, a more precise sharpening would infact result in lower edge retention as you will have a precise crisp point...
> 
> But you know know who brings logic to a discussion of people using confirmation bias to justify a purchase.



This is quite funny.....

No matter if i sharpen freehand, with jiigs etc. the edge retention of maybe AOKI Aogami 2 is less then the Watanabe Aogami 2.

I just use this system for a comparison, that can`t be done by handsharpening...... (you will never ever sharpen with exact angle....)

And with this knowledge in mind, even an EP System will leave more consistant results then handsharpening...

Just to compare different HT in steels (obviously HT and used steel is the main point for edge retention!) it is only possible when we use a fixed angle. Handsharpening is fun but far away from perfect.

There are many known ways to illustrate edge retention, cutting paper, ropes etc. but none of them really shows what happen in an kitchen.

My attempt is to test one knife with controlled angle with different sharpening methods and stones.

As Munetoshi knives are highly regarded because of their HT and especially for uncommon edge retention for Shiro 2 Steel, so i may got an so called mondays knife maybe.... As most of my Jknifes seemed to be monday knifes..... Bad luck it seems.....

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## Matus

Sebastian, I do not see any problem with you method. I know that Munetoshi are being quoted as having very good retention, one needs to realise that such statements are most often very subjective. I have mine for too short to get a good idea on edge retention, but I surely am not expecting miracles. It is, after all, a white #2 which still is a very simple carbon steel which even with the best HT possible can only have certain level of edge retention.

What I am trying to say is that you may well have a perfectly normal Munetoshi, just the reality may be different than what the recent 'little hype' may have one believe - I did not buy into it, I just really like the knife 

With that said - blades made from the same steel, but having seen different making process and HT will most probably deliver the best results with different edge geometries and stones/grits they are finished to. To find where that 'sweet spot' is, is to each user preferences.


----------



## malexthekid

Sharpchef said:


> This is quite funny.....
> 
> No matter if i sharpen freehand, with jiigs etc. the edge retention of maybe AOKI Aogami 2 is less then the Watanabe Aogami 2.
> 
> I just use this system for a comparison, that can`t be done by handsharpening...... (you will never ever sharpen with exact angle....)
> 
> And with this knowledge in mind, even an EP System will leave more consistant results then handsharpening...
> 
> Just to compare different HT in steels (obviously HT and used steel is the main point for edge retention!) it is only possible when we use a fixed angle. Handsharpening is fun but far away from perfect.
> 
> There are many known ways to illustrate edge retention, cutting paper, ropes etc. but none of them really shows what happen in an kitchen.
> 
> My attempt is to test one knife with controlled angle with different sharpening methods and stones.
> 
> As Munetoshi knives are highly regarded because of their HT and especially for uncommon edge retention for Shiro 2 Steel, so i may got an so called mondays knife maybe.... As most of my Jknifes seemed to be monday knifes..... Bad luck it seems.....
> 
> Greets Sebastian.



I don't disagree with this as a method of comparing knife HT. As it is more likely to get a consistent knife angle, though geometry won't be consistent which would play in to it...

Still say that for actual sharpening freehand lets you maintain your geometry a lot better... yes yoy may slightly convex your bevel. But when it is only 1mm or 2mm high you are still getting it razor sharp and that convex will actually aid edge retention slightly...


----------



## Sharpchef

malexthekid said:


> I don't disagree with this as a method of comparing knife HT. As it is more likely to get a consistent knife angle, though geometry won't be consistent which would play in to it...
> 
> Still say that for actual sharpening freehand lets you maintain your geometry a lot better... yes yoy may slightly convex your bevel. But when it is only 1mm or 2mm high you are still getting it razor sharp and that convex will actually aid edge retention slightly...



Bevel has to be at 0,5mm max..... Thats for sure. Still this have nothing to do with sharpness... Also i don`t judge any japanese knife, i like their tradition very much, but it still can be better made.

Just for Munetoshi, you are right it will be "only" Shirogami steel, not known for its best edge retention, but it was called as superb HT and i was told to not judge White 2 edge retention after knowing Muntetoshi knives.... So that is what is all about.

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## labor of love

No surprise here....watanabe retention outlasts nearly all other (non AS)blue steels. Ofcourse it will outlast munetoshi. Watanabe will take longer to sharpen as well. Munetoshi heat treat really is special in my opinion but if your favorite charactistic upon which to judge steel performance is retention it's prob worth staying clear of all shirogami. I prefer steels that take an edge quickly so I'll always lean towards the simple/pure carbons.


----------



## Krassi

My super nice Ikeda Santoku came back like a Chainsaw after i lend it so someone.. That gave me some thinking:"Maybe my freehand sharpening and the low angle is just nonsense".
I changed so many fundamental bad ideas about sharpening recently and i am glad i did. 
Some Comments here let me think: ¯\_(&#12484_/¯
But everybody should do what he likes...


----------



## Colorado_cutter

Can anybody speak to the Muntoshi petty for a leftie? Generally, I don't find asymmetry bothersome- but that is mostly with thinner knives, and the Muntoshi petty seems like it is pretty thick, so it might be an issue. I figure I can switch the handle around, although I do wish they came with octagonal ho handles.


----------



## labor of love

Colorado_cutter said:


> Can anybody speak to the Muntoshi petty for a leftie? Generally, I don't find asymmetry bothersome- but that is mostly with thinner knives, and the Muntoshi petty seems like it is pretty thick, so it might be an issue. I figure I can switch the handle around, although I do wish they came with octagonal ho handles.



As a lefty I did have to severely alter the grind on my munetoshi Kasumi Gyuto.


----------



## Matus

I find the Munetoshi kurouchi gyuto and the kurouchi petty pretty much 100% symmetrical.


----------



## Tonsku38

Krassi said:


> My super nice Ikeda Santoku came back like a Chainsaw after i lend it so someone.. That gave me some thinking:"Maybe my freehand sharpening and the low angle is just nonsense".
> I changed so many fundamental bad ideas about sharpening recently and i am glad i did.
> Some Comments here let me think: ¯\_(&#12484_/¯
> But everybody should do what he likes...



I have same issues with my Ikeda gyuto. Sometimes it hold it edge without microchipping very long time and sometimes it just crumbles away after onion or two. I'm still learning how sharpen it so it holds edge long time.


----------



## chinacats

labor of love said:


> As a lefty I did have to severely alter the grind on my munetoshi Kasumi Gyuto.





Matus said:


> I find the Munetoshi kurouchi gyuto and the kurouchi petty pretty much 100% symmetrical.



? 


:scratchhead: 


?


----------



## Matus

chinacats said:


> ?
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> ?



it might be kasumi versus kurouchi thing. Remember - the kasumi Munetoshi were just one batch.


----------



## labor of love

Matus said:


> it might be kasumi versus kurouchi thing. Remember - the kasumi Munetoshi were just one batch.



Yeah...mine wasn't even close. But I loved the heat treat and profile so I decided to put ALOT of work into making it somewhat 50/50.


----------



## brianh

Got my 240mm gyuto from Maksim today and wow, what a knife. I can't believe it was so cheap. Good food release, very sharp ootb. I didn't experience any reactivity of concern. F&F was better than expected.


----------



## Boynutman

+1

Received my 210mm gyuto a month ago. I choose it because it was the exact opposite of my other knives and wanted to experience these differences: carbon, kurouchi, wa handle, not thin, wide bevels. 

My sharpest knife ever OOTB, and still sharp (I have done some occasional stropping on leather). Have to ask Maxim how it was sharpened.
For me it was a very good reminder and benchmark for how sharp a knife should be.

This was my first carbon blade, and sofar reactivity has been absolutely acceptable, I was a bit concerned after what I read about white #2, but no problem whatsoever.
It is also my first knife that isn't particulary thin, and boy what a pleasure this is with food release! What surprised me is that even though it is not that thin it still glides through potatoes and courgettes and the like. I would have thought my thinner knives (Takamura, Hattori HD, UX10) would win here, but the thinness of these blades also bring food sticktion. So to me it feels like my thicker Munetoshi still cuts easier, presumably because the lack of sticktion offsets any negative effects of the thicker blade.

Actually the blade is not that thick, it is still a fairly light knife. Really happy with fit and finish. Only point of attention is the wood handle which can probably benefit from some treatment with oil/wax.

Very very happy, highly recommended!


----------



## valgard

Damn, mine finally shipped today and I can't wait for it to arrive. I am very hyped to try it out, I see myself doing a lot of cutting in the next couple of weeks with my new toys . With this I have a very thin and "workhorse" 240 gyuto, next up is the middleweight... in a couple of month.


----------



## Sleep

brianh said:


> Got my 240mm gyuto from Maksim today and wow, what a knife. I can't believe it was so cheap. Good food release, very sharp ootb. I didn't experience any reactivity of concern. F&F was better than expected.



How does it compare to Toyama performance-wise?


----------



## brianh

Boynutman said:


> +1
> 
> Received my 210mm gyuto a month ago. I choose it because it was the exact opposite of my other knives and wanted to experience these differences: carbon, kurouchi, wa handle, not thin, wide bevels.
> 
> My sharpest knife ever OOTB, and still sharp (I have done some occasional stropping on leather). Have to ask Maxim how it was sharpened.
> For me it was a very good reminder and benchmark for how sharp a knife should be.
> 
> This was my first carbon blade, and sofar reactivity has been absolutely acceptable, I was a bit concerned after what I read about white #2, but no problem whatsoever.
> It is also my first knife that isn't particulary thin, and boy what a pleasure this is with food release! What surprised me is that even though it is not that thin it still glides through potatoes and courgettes and the like. I would have thought my thinner knives (Takamura, Hattori HD, UX10) would win here, but the thinness of these blades also bring food sticktion. So to me it feels like my thicker Munetoshi still cuts easier, presumably because the lack of sticktion offsets any negative effects of the thicker blade.
> 
> Actually the blade is not that thick, it is still a fairly light knife. Really happy with fit and finish. Only point of attention is the wood handle which can probably benefit from some treatment with oil/wax.
> 
> Very very happy, highly recommended!



Mine came pretty covered in wax to the point it's very smooth! Strange.


----------



## brianh

Sleep said:


> How does it compare to Toyama performance-wise?



I'm still getting to know both knives, especially the Mune, but I'm not sure I would consider them terribly similar. Toyama is heavier in feel, is taller, and great on hard veg. This is what makes me think of "workhorse" but it would be the first time I've had a knife that fits what some describe as a workhorse. Mune feels sharper, more nimble, pull cutting is effortless, good lack of stiction. Just first impressions comparing the two.


----------



## Sleep

Thanks for the comparison! I ordered a Toyama but started second guessing myself after you posted that Munetoshi choil pic.


----------



## brianh

They're pretty different. I admit I didn't get the Toyama love until prepping hard stuff like root veggies. I'm too new to both knives than to give much more than initial impressions.


----------



## bennyprofane

Sleep said:


> How does it compare to Toyama performance-wise?





brianh said:


> I'm still getting to know both knives, especially the Mune, but I'm not sure I would consider them terribly similar. Toyama is heavier in feel, is taller, and great on hard veg. This is what makes me think of "workhorse" but it would be the first time I've had a knife that fits what some describe as a workhorse. Mune feels sharper, more nimble, pull cutting is effortless, good lack of stiction. Just first impressions comparing the two.



Interesting, I feel almost the opposite. I really like my Munetoshi but I don't think it compares to my Toyama. To me, the Toyama (just like the Watanabe) is the best knife I've experienced so far, the best cutter, it just falls through stuff, cuts so effortlessly and takes an amazing edge. It seems to me that the Toyama has a much better geometry while the Munetoshi is perhaps a bit rustic, it gets thicker quicker and therefore tends to wedge a bit (although it's only slightly). I agree that the Munetoshi is impressively low reactive.


----------



## brianh

I meant to say that they're not terribly similar. I do feel the Munetoshi is a better cutter with better food release, while the Toyama is more of a workhorse, and more versatile.


----------



## valgard

Ugh, mine arrived this morning to DHL in Alberta and I got my hopes up. I got delayed in customs and ended up spending my day refreshing the DHL tracking webpage.


----------



## chinacats

Got mine yesterday but didn't get a chance to use it until today. Wow, it cuts really well oob. Mine has a small irregularity on the heel...seems to need about a good mm or 2 taken off to give it a good action...kind of thuds a bit as it is. Guessing that's just a one off from being hand made and it'll be a quick fix on the first sharpening (just breadknife the last inch or so). Not enough to make me fix it first but enough that I won't let it slide on first sharpening. Will also be thinning the tip just a bit.

First white steel knife I've bought in some time and it will be interesting to see if my sharpening has improved. As an aside, I always found blue steel easier to sharpen than white and figure it's due to my gorilla pressure :O learned by sharpening on Arkansas stones a long time ago...seems white steel requires a more gentle approach so I always find it interesting to hear people talk about how easy it is to sharpen. 

Does seem to have a bit of a workhorse feel to it...I think release is good but mine will need a bit of thinning to ease the 'crack' on decent size carrots. That said, it's an onion chopping beast!

Once more Maxim strikes with a serious performer (at a great price imo)...JNS never has a lot of brands at once but you can always count on the fact that they will all perform with anything.:knife:

Have to mention that the kanji looks like it was written by a kindergartner

:running:


----------



## Ruso

> Have to mention that the kanji looks like it was written by a kindergartner


:rofl2::doublethumbsup:


----------



## valgard

Guys, my Munetoshi was just delivered and when inspecting it I noticed this darker mate rough looking spot near the spine. I have no experience with full carbon, does this look like pitting to you? If so, how do I go about it. I fear I will loose the KU finish with whatever comes to my mind.
Other than that I must say it feels great in hand and is way less beefy than I expected but I haven't cut anything with it since that spot has put me off.


----------



## chinacats

Nope, doesnt look like it and the ku would be an unlikely place for it. I believe that's pretty much what Maxim is saying about not having great fit and finish but being cutters first and foremost. Mine's got some character as well but cuts great.


----------



## valgard

Great, it doesn't bother me visually. I wanted the rustic look and the irregularities in the KU colour are cool with me just wanted to make sure everything was fine and not wait until it was too late. I liked the looks of the knife, it sure has some character. I will probably round the spine and choil later if I feel like I need to. The only small thing with mine is that there is a small irregularity in the profile near the heel and it has a small thud but it is close enough to the heel that I should not be bothered by it, will see when I do some prep.


----------



## gaijin

And finally, mine are here. Still have not cut anything with them. But I now know I'll cook something in smaller pieces this weekend.


----------



## trvn

Hey guys, I got a Munetoshi gyuto 240 in today from JNS and I noticed straight away that the edge does not rock smoothly. There seems to be a 3cm flat spot about halfway down the blade, that it clunks over if you rock chop. Is this normal?


----------



## valgard

Mine does that a tiny bit although it got better after I put a bit of attention to it in the first sharpening session (new to the whole thing). I don't tock chop much so it didn't bother me and for mine it was very close to the heel. I will be giving my impressions and asking a few questions soon since I have already used it for 2 weeks and sharpened once (it didn't need it but I wanted to try my new stones).



trvn said:


> Hey guys, I got a Munetoshi gyuto 240 in today from JNS and I noticed straight away that the edge does not rock smoothly. There seems to be a 3cm flat spot about halfway down the blade, that it clunks over if you rock chop. Is this normal?


----------



## trvn

I haven't used mine yet but not too impressed at the moment. It definitely "gallops" when rocking that none of my other knives do.

I also got the munetoshi butcher, and the tang extends down past the ferrule, in the pics online it looks normal. I know it says that fit and finish aren't his specialty, but wasn't expecting all this. First impressions haven't been the greatest.


----------



## Barmoley

I got the slicer and handle on mine is not fitted very well either, but it cuts very well. Looks worse than I expected, but if it continues performing well, I might rehandle it.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

trvn said:


> I haven't used mine yet but not too impressed at the moment. It definitely "gallops" when rocking that none of my other knives do.
> 
> I also got the munetoshi butcher, and the tang extends down past the ferrule, in the pics online it looks normal. I know it says that fit and finish aren't his specialty, but wasn't expecting all this. First impressions haven't been the greatest.



Do you mean the emoto/neck sticks out a bit past the ferrule? Is it only biased towards the top or bottom? That could probably be adjusted by reinstalling the handle. I had to take some sandpaper and a file to mine when I got it because the choil was very sharp below the shinogi. For the price I cannot complain at all especially given the note about F&F


----------



## aboynamedsuita

valgard said:


> Guys, my Munetoshi was just delivered and when inspecting it I noticed this darker mate rough looking spot near the spine. I have no experience with full carbon, does this look like pitting to you? If so, how do I go about it. I fear I will loose the KU finish with whatever comes to my mind.
> Other than that I must say it feels great in hand and is way less beefy than I expected but I haven't cut anything with it since that spot has put me off.
> 
> View attachment 34319



I had something kinda like that (I think) on my Butcher that didn't go away after I washed it. I used acetone to clean and it made the KU look uniform

EDIT, not sure if your pic is an actual variation in the KU or some sort of coating that doesn't want to come off


----------



## trvn

aboynamedsuita said:


> Do you mean the emoto/neck sticks out a bit past the ferrule? Is it only biased towards the top or bottom? That could probably be adjusted by reinstalling the handle. I had to take some sandpaper and a file to mine when I got it because the choil was very sharp below the shinogi. For the price I cannot complain at all especially given the note about F&F



It's just on the bottom, so if you were to pinch grip for example the corners of the tang or whatever would be digging into your finger. I don't really want to rehandle it but it's nice to know it could be fixed if need be. It just looks really sloppy is all.

I hope the gyuto will get smoother with sharpenings, I think I'd really like it if not for the gallop


----------



## valgard

@aboynamedsuita it's not a coating, it's something in the KU but I honestly don't care since it's not harmful.The FF on the blades is definitely lacking but there is clear warning, the price is great and I love the cutting experience. The butchers seem to be even more roughly finished and the choil in mine is rather sharp and handle is not flush with the blade but since the handles are easy to remove I will be fixing the choil soon. Besides, once I took that butcher to a pork leg all was great. If I put the things I don't like and the ones I like in a balance I really love both, especially for the price.


----------



## Matus

For what it's worth my 165 Petty (which is basically a little gyuto since it has 40 mm height) is with a friend of mine (a pro chef) and he is enjoying the knife a lot. I would say if one wants to try out the Munetoshi grind the petty is an excellent and very cheap way to do so. I love both 240 and 165. The 240 profile is on the flat side (though that works great for me), but the 165 is just perfect.


----------



## gaijin

Matus said:


> For what it's worth my 165 Petty (which is basically a little gyuto since it has 40 mm height) is with a friend of mine (a pro chef) and he is enjoying the knife a lot. I would say if one wants to try out the Munetoshi grind the petty is an excellent and very cheap way to do so. I love both 240 and 165. The 240 profile is on the flat side (though that works great for me), but the 165 is just perfect.



I got the 240 and the 165 a few weeks ago, and the smaller knife is not yet used to me. Or me to it. It feels a bit big when I need a small knife, and a bit small when I want a big knife. 

I'll keep it on using it, perhaps I will grow to like me. Or me it.


----------



## trvn

Have spent some more time with my Munetoshi and am really starting to like it. At first I thought I got a lemon but the profile problem I had was easily fixed on the stones and now it might be my favorite profile out of my small collection. I plan to sell a few of my knives but this one I think I'll hold on to!


----------



## Choppin

Sorry to bump this, but could anyone give me the height measurement for the 210 KU gyuto? It's listed at 50mm at JNS but I have read here that the 240mm is 50mm tall so they might have mixed it up.


----------



## TheCaptain

If no one responds by tonight I'll get you something once I get home. Love ALL my Munetoshi's (but the butcher is the bomb!)


----------



## jaknil

I dont have a 210, but my 240 is 50 mm.
And I love it


----------



## Choppin

Thank's Captain - that would be great! - and Jaknil

The butcher gets much praise, unfortunately I wouldn't have much use for it at home. Besides the 210, I'm also eyeing the 165 petty. Don't really need a petty right now, but for the price... would be a good knife to improve my sharpening / polishing skills


----------



## valgard

Choppin said:


> Thank's Captain - that would be great! - and Jaknil
> 
> The butcher gets much praise, unfortunately I wouldn't have much use for it at home. Besides the 210, I'm also eyeing the 165 petty. Don't really need a petty right now, but for the price... would be a good knife to improve my sharpening / polishing skills



FWIW that petty is effectively a small gyuto from a couple of videos I've seen.


----------



## Choppin

valgard said:


> FWIW that petty is effectively a small gyuto from a couple of videos I've seen.



Yes, 40mm height... and it's actually 170mm it seems. A small gyuto indeed


----------



## labor of love

Choppin said:


> Sorry to bump this, but could anyone give me the height measurement for the 210 KU gyuto? It's listed at 50mm at JNS but I have read here that the 240mm is 50mm tall so they might have mixed it up.



Panda has/had a 210mm munetoshi. He could tell you, I believe it really is 50mm tall.


----------



## SolidSnake03

I've got one of the 165mm pettys and it's actually a really good line knife/all around small knife. Great clearance and height for something that length and easy to tuck out of the way.

Also, in a pinch it'll do just fine doing some bigger knife jobs (cutting a large potato, cleaving an apple, slicing some meat etc..

Its a knife worth having in just about any kitchen/setting. Also, after it patinas a little it's not very reactive, calms down quite quickly


----------



## Badgertooth

SolidSnake03 said:


> I've got one of the 165mm pettys and it's actually a really good line knife/all around small knife. Great clearance and height for something that length and easy to tuck out of the way.
> 
> Also, in a pinch it'll do just fine doing some bigger knife jobs (cutting a large potato, cleaving an apple, slicing some meat etc..
> 
> Its a knife worth having in just about any kitchen/setting. Also, after it patinas a little it's not very reactive, calms down quite quickly


 
You taken it to the Aizu yet?


----------



## TheCaptain

Choppin said:


> Thank's Captain - that would be great! - and Jaknil
> 
> The butcher gets much praise, unfortunately I wouldn't have much use for it at home. Besides the 210, I'm also eyeing the 165 petty. Don't really need a petty right now, but for the price... would be a good knife to improve my sharpening / polishing skills



Ok here we go...

First time doing this only on the phone but I can confirm it's 50 at the heel. 

Love all my Mune knives.


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## TheCaptain

So the only mune I don't own is the slicer. For those who say you don't need a butcher..just have a chicken breast part like the sea of Galilee and you will never go back.


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## SolidSnake03

Badgertooth said:


> You taken it to the Aizu yet?



Yup! The Munetoshi and the Aizu go together beautifully. That level of refinement is perfect for an all around petty/small gyuto like I use mine as.


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## Choppin

Thank's Captain, that's helpful


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## panda

yup the 210 is 50mm tall, mine was actually 51-52!


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## Choppin

Looking good... could someone tell me the weight of the 210? Sorry, should have asked that before so Captain could weight it when he pulled it out...


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## TheCaptain

The weight on mine with the stock handle is 181g. Despite what Maksim states about fit and finish there is no gap between the ferrule and the wood handle, which is of good quality. In addition, I find the balance point for me to be spot on. Add to this super sharp oob (as were all my munies...grrr no stones needed) and the is JNS'S best bang for the buck by far IMHO.


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## labor of love

@captain, seriously munetoshi might be the sharpest knife I've ever received ootb. Kinda curious what is used to sharpen it what the process is.


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## TheCaptain

@labor of love - I know, right? What's worse? Grinning like a fool when you get a brand new stupid sharp knife, or grinning like a fool when something arrives kinda meh...so you get to pull out your stones.


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## TheCaptain

AND to put things in perspective...I tend to only buy a nakiri and a gyuto from a single maker as I like to experience different styles etc. So far the only exceptions are Munetoshi and Toyoma. That should tell you something.


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## fimbulvetr

I use the Munetoshi butcher, slicer, and petty at work in a small fancy meat/butcher shop. They've become my go-to set. Sharpening them is a goll dang pleasure, and they get sharp as blazes on a Shapton 2000 in seconds.


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## valgard

Choppin said:


> should have asked that before so Captain could weight it when he pulled it out...



she...


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## TheCaptain

No worries. I've been online BEFORE the internet when the male to female ratio was (no kidding) something like 150:1. On the old geek bulletin boards once it came out you were a chick:

1. You weren't taken seriously

2. Everyone started hitting on you.

Old habits die hard. I keep using my gender neutral pseudo. Anyway suites me better than knife princess :grin:


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## TheCaptain

Fwiw this community is BY FAR more respectful/fearful of their s/o than any other board I've been on. May have something to do with lots of sharp things in the house but who knows?


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## SolidSnake03

labor of love said:


> @captain, seriously munetoshi might be the sharpest knife I've ever received ootb. Kinda curious what is used to sharpen it what the process is.



Glad I'm not the only one to feel this way. My petty came "stupid crazy oh shoot I'm accidentally bleeding now" sharp. Really curious how it's sharpened and with what.


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## fatboylim

Check out Maksims videos, I think he hand sharpens many of his knives before they go out.


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## Choppin

Thank's again Captain! I guess now I have ran out of excuses to pull the trigger... 

Captain - do you have/had the Toyama 210 gyuto? I was considerig it also, more inclined towards the Mune due to the price, but would love to hear a quick comparison


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## StonedEdge

Choppin said:


> Thank's again Captain! I guess now I have ran out of excuses to pull the trigger...
> 
> Captain - do you have/had the Toyama 210 gyuto? I was considerig it also, more inclined towards the Mune due to the price, but would love to hear a quick comparison



I have an Itinomonn semi stainless 210 gyuto and at that price it's difficult to imagine a better value for your coin. Maybe it's something to look into if you like a workhorse type blade with a thin edge and nimble tip for less $ than Toyama. I've seen Toyama users compare the two rather closely and favorably.


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## Choppin

I believe the 210 Itinomonn at JNS is fully SS (core and cladding). If it was carbon steel (at least the core) I would have bought it already. It's a very good match for what I want. Seems to have very good F&F also. But I'm a sucker for patina and the feel of carbon on the stones... 

Do you feel the Iti is easy to sharpen? 




StonedEdge said:


> I have an Itinomonn semi stainless 210 gyuto and at that price it's difficult to imagine a better value for your coin. Maybe it's something to look into if you like a workhorse type blade with a thin edge and nimble tip for less $ than Toyama. I've seen Toyama users compare the two rather closely and favorably.


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## fatboylim

Choppin said:


> I believe the 210 Itinomonn at JNS is fully SS (core and cladding). If it was carbon steel (at least the core) I would have bought it already. It's a very good match for what I want. Seems to have very good F&F also. But I'm a sucker for patina and the feel of carbon on the stones...
> 
> Do you feel the Iti is easy to sharpen?



Itinomonn is easy to sharpen, but nothing compares to full carbon. If that is your preference then look into the Munetoshi and Toyama. I can't comment on the Munetoshi so I'll leave that for those that have one.


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## StonedEdge

Choppin said:


> I believe the 210 Itinomonn at JNS is fully SS (core and cladding). If it was carbon steel (at least the core) I would have bought it already. It's a very good match for what I want. Seems to have very good F&F also. But I'm a sucker for patina and the feel of carbon on the stones...
> 
> Do you feel the Iti is easy to sharpen?



I know what you mean about a nice patina on a full carbon blade. FWIW the exposed core takes on a blueish gray patina and it sharpens very similarly to a white #2 knife I currently have. Don't get me wrong the Toyama looks like a really nice choice! If the price was more on par with my budget I would have gone the Toyama route also!


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## Choppin

StonedEdge said:


> I know what you mean about a nice patina on a full carbon blade. FWIW the exposed core takes on a blueish gray patina and it sharpens very similarly to a white #2 knife I currently have. Don't get me wrong the Toyama looks like a really nice choice! If the price was more on par with my budget I would have gone the Toyama route also!



Oh well, I was almost decided on the Munetoshi but you just made the Iti more interesting :ubersexy:

TBH I like Itinomonn's specs a little better. Lighter and a bit thinner, looks like a slim midweight gyuto while the Mune would be a bulkier midweight, almost workhorse. That's my impression at least, without having handled them

Have you tried any Jnat on your Itinomonn? I'm curious about the results you could get on the kasumi and contrast, being an all-SS blade.


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## TheCaptain

Choppin, yes I do have both. Will pull them out and do a side-by-side either tonight or tomorrow and post here.


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## StonedEdge

I only use synthetics atm so i can't&#8203; help you on that front. I feel like a skilled individual you get a nice looking contrast between the two steels even using finger stones or the sand paper method. The blade has horizontal scratch patterns (from sandpaper or maybe some kind of belt not sure?) so I guess that would play a factor in deciding how/what kind of finish you'd want to give it I assume. 

Here are some hopefully helpful pictures from my crummy phone


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## Choppin

Nice pics. I wasn't aware it could patina like that. 

Thank's Captain, that would be the incredibly helpful


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## JaVa

About the Itinomonn (semi-) stain-less patina, I've said this several times, yes it does get a very nice dark and stable patina. For some reason there's a very persistent belief around here that the Itinomonn would be a full SS. I see that claim pop up from time to time. But it really is semi- stainless and actually closer to carbon then SS. 

It's the quintessential best of both worlds knife IMO. Sharpens much more carbon like than stainless, but does not rust as easily as a carbon and slowly get's that nice patina going. 

And the performance is outstanding. It's definitely my best allrounder. If I had to choose just one knife (fortunately I don't have to  ) this would be it. It has better edge retention than most carbons, the fine edge won't fade when cutting acidic stuff, really easy to get super sharp, feels nice and smooth on the stones and the profile and the grind are spot on for my preferences. F&F is flawless too.


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## Choppin

JaVa - how about the cladding, in terms of patina and ease of sharpening? I would guess that thinning this knife would demand extra time/effort due to the soft SS cladding...


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## JaVa

The cladding is full SS. No patina there. 

So far I've needed to thin only one of my SS clad knives (not the Itinomonn) and it was a bit of work due to the wear resistance of the softer SS cladding and the cladding was a bit grabby on the stones too. Not the best feeling.

But the protection and ease of mind the SS cladding provides is a good enough trade of for me to prefer the SS cladding over soft iron cladding. Just my personal preference though.


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## StonedEdge

The Itinomonn is very thin behind the edge and has a pretty thin geometry down by the cladding line and lower. The core steel also runs up fairly high so you won't need to thin it for a good while. I do wonder tho what it'll be like to thin it when time comes.


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## labor of love

is that an itinomonn?



StonedEdge said:


> I only use synthetics atm so i can't&#8203; help you on that front. I feel like a skilled individual you get a nice looking contrast between the two steels even using finger stones or the sand paper method. The blade has horizontal scratch patterns (from sandpaper or maybe some kind of belt not sure?) so I guess that would play a factor in deciding how/what kind of finish you'd want to give it I assume.
> 
> Here are some hopefully helpful pictures from my crummy phone


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## JaVa

Looks just like my Itinomonn, except I have even darker patina even though I rinse and wipe it down after every use.


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## TheCaptain

Choppin,

If nothing else I have to thank you dude! When my hubby saw me pulling both knives out, he asked me what's going on, and I told him I was going to compare and review the Toyama and Mune for a fellow board member. He actually wanted to jump in and help (he's falling further down the rabbit hole himself - evil grin!!!)

So the below are a combination of two pretty decent home cook impressions (we both worked food service in college, hubby in a fine dining establishment, me as a short order/prep cook.

I'm having problems getting the pictures from the phone to my tablet, so sorry - they will all be uploaded at the end.
First - as we all know the Munetoshi has a more rustic, kurochi finish while the Toyama has the more polished, Kasumi finish. So yea, the Toyama looks nicer when you give it a once over.

Both measured 211mm from blade tip straight to the edge of the heel. Now the Toyama is curved a bit so you actually get a few more mm in cutting real estate, but not a big difference.

The machi (tang part into the handle) is where DH and I both got a surprise. The machi on the muni is about 16mm while the Toyama machi is about 8mm (curved blade on Toyama, difficult to measure with a cloth tape measure). This makes a pinch grip MUCH more comfortable on the mune and since DH has big hands it was a pretty big thing for him. 

The Mune weighs in at 181 grams while the Toyama comes in at 179g. Not a big difference, you would think? Wrong!!! The blade on the Mune is heavier while the Toyama carries more weight in the handle. The makes the balance point on the Toyama about 15mm from the heel of the blade to my index finger. On the Mune that same measurement is about 30mm. That means the Mune is more weight forward in the blade, and at least it feels to me like the knife does more of the work for me. The husband (DH) couldnt believe the small weight difference at first and tared the scale and re-weighed them three times with the same results. It was only when I showed him how to measure the balance point (scientific=NOT!) by balancing the knife on his index finger that he saw where the weight differences came out.

Now cutting, both performed equally well on onions, mushrooms, and kale. The mune had better food release (due to the Kurochi finish) but the Toyama was pretty good in this area as well. I felt like the Mune wedged a bit more in the onions, but DH didnt feel a difference. On the other hand I believed the Toyama tip had an edge over the Mune when slicing an onion for dicing, but again DH thought both performed equally well.

Now I know your are not supposed to cut greens (kale) but lovingly tear them into bite size pieces by hand. I dont have time for that **** so cut it is. The profile on both ensured cuts all the way through and the sharpness ensured no bruising of the greens (that I could detect at least).

I cant tell you how they did on beef as I left the kitchen for 5 minutes, 5 MINUTES and DH pulled out our Tanaka Ginsan to cut the meat. Now in his defense I dont take the Tanaka all the way up on my stones on purpose so the blade is a bit more toothy. DH knows this and we use this knife for meat and tomatoes. 

So there are our impressions. As Ive said many times, the Mune is IMHO one of the best bang for the bucks out there, especially if you like a heavier feeling, workhorse type knives. 

Do I regret getting the Toyama? Nope! Its like trying to compare a good wine to a good beer  both are enjoyable, just depends on what youre in the mood for.

Hope this helps!


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## TheCaptain

Pictures from review


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## daveb

Capt,

Nice write up. Two questions beg to be answered.

What's Kale?

Is DH an Admiral or a Boatswains Mate?

:cool2::cool2::cool2:


(I quit on carbon Gyuto some time ago. The Mune may have me try it again.)


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## StonedEdge

labor of love said:


> is that an itinomonn?



Yes, it's the Stain-Less Kasumi 210 gyuto


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## valgard

@Captain very nice write up! I enjoyed reading it.


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## TheCaptain

daveb said:


> Capt,
> 
> Nice write up. Two questions beg to be answered.
> 
> What's Kale?
> 
> Is DH an Admiral or a Boatswains Mate?
> 
> :cool2::cool2::cool2:
> 
> 
> (I quit on carbon Gyuto some time ago. The Mune may have me try it again.)



Kale is a green leafy vegetable believed to be poisonous to most teenaged carnivores. However when introduced to the diet in small quantities, then gradually increased, a certain level of tolerance is usually developed.

And no, DH is not the Admiral. He's my first mate :wink:


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## StonedEdge

And here I was thinking that DH meant Designated Hitter


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## Choppin

Many thank's Captain, that was really helpful. I'm glad DH got into it as well! Haha 

I guess I will order the Mune and keep the Toyama in mind as a future purchase. Will post my inpressions here when I have a chance.


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## labor of love

@choppin what size gyuto are you interested in purchasing?


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## Choppin

labor of love said:


> @choppin what size gyuto are you interested in purchasing?



210mm


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## labor of love

Choppin said:


> 210mm



Find an itinomonn. Or a wakui. Or gengetsu.


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## Choppin

I like Wakui and Gengetsu as well, solid options. But the price point on Itinomonn and Munetoshi are too good to pass, so I'm currently focused on these two. 

I actually have a WTB thread for an Itinomonn. Would love to get my hands on a western handle one, I know that would throw me off the price point but they look sooo good...



labor of love said:


> Find an itinomonn. Or a wakui. Or gengetsu.


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## StonedEdge

Wakui hairline or Kasumi Ithink they're called IIRC are very similar to the Iti


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## panda

i want to give a disclaimer. munetoshi is fantastic out of the box, but once it needs to be thinned, you start to lose that concave grind it no longer is the giant killer. so the shelf life of it at peak performance is not very long. but for light home use this should not be an issue for years.


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## brainsausage

daveb said:


> (I quit on carbon Gyuto some time ago. The Mune may have me try it again.)



Thread derailment ahead: It might be due to my relative absence around here of late- but what's that about no carbon gyuto? Are you just swinging all Devin/Del/Mario as of late?!?!?!? (Can't think of what else would be worthy off the top of my head right now...) More power to you if that's the case.


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## JaVa

StonedEdge said:


> Wakui hairline or Kasumi Ithink they're called IIRC are very similar to the Iti



That's true, but there are a couple subtle differences. Itinomonn Stain-Less (semi SS) kasumi has a thinner and pointier (-better) tip and more continues distal taper. Better edge retention too. Wakui (W2 carbon) kasumi/hairline is about 2 mm taller and weighs slightly more. Is marginally easier to sharpen, but both are very easy. 

Both are incredible sturdy middleweight cutters with great very thin behind the edge convex grinds, lovely profiles with long flat spots, good food release properties and flawless F&F. So both are great, but for me the Iti wins, but not by much. Both at about the same price point offer some of the best value around IMO.


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## Mathias Z.

Matus said:


> I am curios about Munetoshi as well. Could anyone let me know how much does the 240 gyuto weight?


Mine is 212g 240mm ku finish, shiro 2


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## Mathias Z.

Matus said:


> Please let me add a few more questions
> 
> I would be very interested how the Munetoshi compares to Toyama (in 240 size) and to some other knives, (e.g. Kochi, Itinomonn KU, hammered Yohikane SKD, etc.) in terms of cutting behaviour, center of mass, etc. I am lookig for a workhorse-ish knife that is thin behind the edge. I have Kato 240 workhorse at the moment and it is just bit too heavy and definitely too thick for everyday use for me (though it is a special knife - no question about that).
> 
> This would really help, thanks


food release is good, tip works fine on onions, carrots need some force - you can hear a little bit of cracking sound but when they are in half, they just cut fine. I like the knife, it has a real nice feeling when cutting, don´t own or tried a knife you mentioned but I would regard it as a workhorse knife - the grind is fine on mine too, the balance point is right in the middle of the 240 mm at least 4cm from the heel to the tip, it has a slight blade heavy feel, which I really like as the knife does the work for you. not a professional, just a foodie who likes japanese blades.


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## Matus

L


Mathias Z. said:


> Mine is 212g 240mm ku finish, shiro 2


I had one in the mean time for about a year and sold it about a year ago


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## minibatataman

Matus said:


> L
> I had one in the mean time for about a year and sold it about a year ago


Hell in the meantime I got into knives, joint KKF, bought an uraku, sold it, bought a munetoshi and loved that, then sold as well


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## Matus

It is just plain funny when people overlook that thread has been dormant for a couple of years. @Mathias Z. - please don’t take it the wrong way, I appreciate your reply. We are just having a little fun


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## Mathias Z.

Matus said:


> It is just plain funny when people overlook that thread has been dormant for a couple of years. @Mathias Z. - please don’t take it the wrong way, I appreciate your reply. We are just having a little fun


nice you are having fun on my behalf - you made me laugh! > on the other hand: some people read comments to grasp information on certain knives - so answers to questions might help. @minibatataman who led you into reading this thread - curiousity?


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## minibatataman

Mathias Z. said:


> nice you are having fun on my behalf - you made me laugh! > on the other hand: some people read comments to grasp information on certain knives - so answers to questions might help. @minibatataman who led you into reading this thread - curiousity?


Yep. 
Im a fan of munetoshi (except for the tip) and was curious 
Was very confused when I saw that the posts were all years old untill I saw your comment near the end


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## Carl Kotte

I like mine so much I have to keep it. Actually, it’s so good that it’s half-converted my wife to using carbons. [emoji1305][emoji1303]


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## minibatataman

Carl Kotte said:


> it’s half-converted my wife to using carbons. [emoji1305][emoji1303]


Ah the dream


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## Carl Kotte

minibatataman said:


> Ah the dream



Haha, yes it is! [emoji23][emoji16][emoji122]


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## Matus

We all try, but most of us fail


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## Carl Kotte

Yes, but I can’t claim full success yet. She’s still worried about the reactivity. And so she avoids carbons when she can. However, she has slowly begun to acquire the taste for sharpness. And she’s very quick to report when a knife fails to fall through a tomato (’this one is dull!’). And that’s a good thing [emoji16]


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