# First Quality Gyuto Purchase - <Opinions Needed>



## Obiwan (Sep 26, 2013)

Hello,
Im looking to expand my horizons a little bit and have been researching the purchase of a new kitchen knife. I was directed to this site by a very trusted source and couldnt be happier with the wealth of knowledge and information Ive quickly seen here. Ive completed the questionnaire below and was hoping you guys/gals wouldnt mind tossing out a few suggestions that you think I should consider for a new knife. I worked on a line years ago beside a few very knowledgeable knife enthusiasts but, regrettably, never retained any of the names of the knives they would lend me.

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
* Gyuto. I haven't finalized between 210mm and 240mm yet though.

Are you right or left handed?
* Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
* Wa-Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
* Im trying to decide between a 210mm and a 240mm.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
* No. Im not opposed to it, but I dont feel its a deal breaker one way or another.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
* I'd say around $175. If raising it a tad pays, I'd be ok with that.

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
* Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
* I would say I would likely use this knife for most any kitchen task. The only exceptions Id say are likely breaking down poultry bones and shellfish. I tend to use other designated options for that.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
* My current knives are Shun Classics (with SS handles). They have been very serviceable but Ive always been interested in seeing what a step up in quality performs like.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
*Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
*Rock and Slice mainly.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
* My current knives do the job well (likely because I dont know any better). Im looking to see what a step or two up in quality is like.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
* I would absolutely love better aesthetics such as a damascus/patterned steel, but Im not sure the budget Ive set for this purchase gets me there. That said, if raising my budget marginally puts me into a different category that is worth stretching into Id consider going a little higher.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
* I'm not sure I have a huge preference here. I want quality construction and not super crazy light for weight. Light is fine. Just not "feather" light. So I guess Im open to anything expect for extremes on either end of the spectrum.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
*Id like it to be decent out of the box. I dont mind sharpening, but Id like it to be relatively easy to sharpen.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
*I love to hone razors so I don't mind honing when needed. Edge retention is nice, but not critical.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?*
*Yes, usually wood and sometimes synthetic

Do you sharpen your own knives?
*Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
* Ive never been against adding another toy to the toolbox. Not sure if there's anything else I'd need though?


----------



## Benuser (Sep 26, 2013)

At this price point finding a decent Wa-gyuto won't be easy. Have a look at JCK Kagayaki house series, though. No personal experience with their Wa-blades, but Mr Koki Iwahara from JCK is a very serious guy, and knows his stuff.


----------



## harlock0083 (Sep 26, 2013)

Benuser said:


> At this price point finding a decent Wa-gyuto won't be easy. Have a look at JCK Kagayaki house series, though. No personal experience with their Wa-blades, but Mr Koki Iwahara from JCK is a very serious guy, and knows his stuff.



As Benuser stated, their Kagayaki VG10 series has a wa handle option now. Is an option that would fit your budget.

May I ask how do you sharpen your knives?


----------



## bkdc (Sep 26, 2013)

Personally, I'd pay the extra 35 dollars and buy the JCK FuRinKaZan Swedish Stainless 240mm gyuto. Those Sakai-made lasers are amazing!

At that price point, ignore the aesthetics and get yourself a pure performer.


----------



## Obiwan (Sep 26, 2013)

Thanks. I didn't realize that budget was going to be ultra restrictive. Let's say it was self-imposed. What is a more realistic price point got a decent option selection?

As for sharpening, glad to answer but I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking what type of stones/progression I use?


----------



## harlock0083 (Sep 26, 2013)

bkdc said:


> Personally, I'd pay the extra 35 dollars and buy the JCK FuRinKaZan Swedish Stainless 240mm gyuto. Those Sakai-made lasers are amazing!
> 
> At that price point, ignore the aesthetics and get yourself a pure performer.



I haven't used the JCK swedish stainless yet, but I can recommend the Sakai Yusuke's (240 will be slightly above budget, but the 210 is also an option). Oh, also there's the Sakai Takayuki's which are a cheaper option (closer to your budget $180 for a 240mm). Also, consider the Gesshin Gingas. They're a little pricier but come with a saya I believe. You can ask Jon @ JKI about them.


----------



## harlock0083 (Sep 26, 2013)

Obiwan said:


> Thanks. I didn't realize that budget was going to be ultra restrictive. Let's say it was self-imposed. What is a more realistic price point got a decent option selection?
> 
> As for sharpening, glad to answer but I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking what type of stones/progression I use?



I was wondering if you were using stones or something method (Chef choice, and those Rube Goldberg type sharpening systems (wicked edge and whatever the other thing was....))


----------



## MowgFace (Sep 26, 2013)

Gesshin Uraku 240 Wa-Gyuto
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives/gesshin-uraku/gesshin-uraku-240mm-stainless-wa-gyuto.html

In budget, Wa, Stainless.


----------



## harlock0083 (Sep 26, 2013)

Good call Mowg.


----------



## Obiwan (Sep 26, 2013)

harlock0083 said:


> I was wondering if you were using stones or something method (Chef choice, and those Rube Goldberg type sharpening systems (wicked edge and whatever the other thing was....))



Nope. I'm an obsessed rockhound with way more stones than I need and zero self control. Lol


----------



## MowgFace (Sep 26, 2013)

Also:

Sakai Takayuki Hammered Damascus
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230990175070

Sakai Ichimonji Wa- Gyuto
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Sakai-Ichimonji-Kichikuni-White-Steel-Wa-Gyuto-Knife-240mm-/380681764577?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a266bee1
Although, at 190, id probably save for Sakai Yusuke or Gesshin Ginga, the Ginga of which is on my "soon" list.

Gonbei hammered Damascus
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/kitchen-knives/gonbei/hammered-damascus-series/gonbei-240mm-hammered-damascus-wa-gyuto.html


----------



## Frater_Decus (Sep 26, 2013)

MowgFace said:


> Also:
> 
> Sakai Takayuki Hammered Damascus
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/230990175070
> ...



I have sister versions of two knives mentioned here -- the yo-handled version of the Sakai Takayuki Hammered Damascus (rebranded as Togiharu for Korin), and the AEB-L version of the Yusuke, the wa-handled Grand Chef (both 240mm). I can definitely vouch for both, though it's clear that they are definitely cut from completely different sets of blueprints. The Sakai Hammered is great if you like some weight to your knife and don't mind san-mai VG-10. It gets a lot of oohs and aahs from house-guests. Having gravitated towards monosteel lasers, the Grand Chef is prefect for me, but it needs to be sharpened as soon as you get it.


----------



## Seb (Sep 26, 2013)

Are you saying that the Grand Cheff Wa is similar to the Yusuke? I have owned both and they are about as different in every way as wa-gyutos can get: profile, thickness, weight, handle... complete opposites. The GCW is a much heavier knife.


----------



## Frater_Decus (Sep 26, 2013)

You're saying a wa handle is completely opposite from a wa handle? That doesn't make any sense.

Also, you're calling one of the lightest gyutos out there "much heavier" -- I believe you need to check your facts. Seems you're taking about the western handled version, which IS heavier. Either that, or you're contrasting the GC with the special extra thin edition of Yusuke.


----------



## chinacats (Sep 26, 2013)

OK, I'm going to go a bit the other way on weight and suggest a great cutter with really good fit and finish and say Kochi V2 kurouchi. I happen to find it aesthetically pleasing, extremely thin behind the edge and a great overall cutter. A bit over budget but I think well worth the added cost. 
Cheers
Edit to add that I really liked the steel and thought it took an insane edge.


----------



## Seb (Sep 27, 2013)

Frater_Decus said:


> You're saying a wa handle is completely opposite from a wa handle? That doesn't make any sense.
> 
> Also, you're calling one of the lightest gyutos out there "much heavier" -- I believe you need to check your facts. Seems you're taking about the western handled version, which IS heavier. Either that, or you're contrasting the GC with the special extra thin edition of Yusuke.



I'm going to give you a pass because I am trying to turn over a new leaf with my online behaviour generally. 

In answer to your question, that's a definitive 'yes': the handle on the GCW is bigger and the FF is noticeably inferior; the GCW feels and handles like a much bigger, heftier knife and its profile/blade shape and geometry are identical to my Masamoto HC 240mm (which is def not a laser).

OTOH, the Yusuke is very similar to the Tadatsuna and Ashi 'laser' wa-gyutos (I also have a stainless Ashi).

To sum up, after my Yusuke, which feels like handling a light saber, the GCW felt like a baseball bat. 

Sorry if I caused you embarrassment by contradicting you like that but I thought it was important to correct such a gross mistake of fact.

Do yourself a favor and get an Ashi, Yusuke or Gesshin - it will BLOW YOUR MIND - if you think the GCW is a laser, wait till you see them apples!

PS: I just remembered how I came to buying and trying the GCW - I took a chance after naively trusting OG members at Foodie Forums who were talking out their butts (as usual) and found out I had been misled about its being a laser (it isn't).

PPS: How about that? Found my old pic on Google Images (note that you can see the differences in profile which are actually much more pronounced in real life):







O ya, one handle is balck and teh other is wite! hehe


----------



## ChiliPepper (Sep 27, 2013)

Back to the OP question. I have the Sakai Yusuke in stainless but it is a bit extreme, meaning it's a pure "laser" and have some flex due to its thiness.That's something that has to be accounted for when sharpening and I'm not sure it's the right choice for someone that has to learn sharpening.Maybe something stiffer would be better?In that price range you have the CarboNext but again it seems edge is not fantastic out of the box and requires a bit of work to enjoy its qualities. You've been recommended a Kagayaki but can't comment there ad I've never used one.Aparently VG10 is hit and miss depending on the skills of the maker.My Hattori HD is awesome but some 50$ outside of your budget. Hiromoto AS is close but again requires some sharpening skills to be appreciated fully.Maybe a MAC or a Tojiro DP?Or a Grand Chef in AEB-L?


----------



## ChiliPepper (Sep 27, 2013)

And yes, if you can stretch to 250$ I would try a Gesshin Ginga, never used one but always seemed to be an excellent price/performance option and it's sold by someone you can trust. If I were in the States that would prob be my choice.


----------



## Obiwan (Sep 27, 2013)

Thanks chilipepper. I not entirely new to sharpening. That said, I agree with your assumption for anything on the extreme end. Not looking for anything ultra on either end of the spectrum.

As for $250, I'm fine raiding my budget if it puts me into a worthy category. 

Thanks again to everyone weighing in so far. This is helpful.


----------



## Lefty (Sep 27, 2013)

I'm not getting involved with the fisticuffs, but Seb knows a thing or two. 

Anywho, since you have the Shun Classics, and have stones, why not try a nice carbon knife, or something with a carbon edge and stainless clad? Right now, if someone said, "You have $200(ish) to buy any gyuto" - This would be it, as a home user, or on a cramped line:

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kurouchi-nashiji-210mm-wa-gyuto/

After this knife, I'd consider trying a Gesshin Uraku (I trust Jon), or a Misono Dragon. Not because it's the best knife in the world, but because it takes a fantastic edge, and feels wonderful in use. The steel has a reputation for being highly reactive, but we long ago came to the agreement that perhaps it's a problem in certain batches moreso than in others.


----------



## skiajl6297 (Sep 27, 2013)

OP - are you the same Obiwan from B&B forum?

Welcome!


----------



## Obiwan (Sep 27, 2013)

Same one....looking for something else to spend my money on and another excuse to keep the stones wet. Lol.


----------



## Frater_Decus (Sep 27, 2013)

Seb said:


> I'm going to give you a pass because I am trying to turn over a new leaf with my online behaviour generally.
> 
> In answer to your question, that's a definitive 'yes': the handle on the GCW is bigger and the FF is noticeably inferior; the GCW feels and handles like a much bigger, heftier knife and its profile/blade shape and geometry are identical to my Masamoto HC 240mm (which is def not a laser).
> 
> ...



Hokay, my main issue was the fact that you were saying that so much was "totally opposite," so if you just mean that a black ferrule is opposite from white, that's cool. I'm curious about the weight, though! I don't have a scale myself, but the weight of the GC is noted as 153 grams here: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?post/1788411/
The censored & unscrupulous popular J-Knife seller lists the Yusuke as 5.4 OZ, which also translates to 153 grams. Can we have some empirical data?


----------



## Seb (Sep 27, 2013)

One is a baseball bat and the other is a knife, how's that?


----------



## Frater_Decus (Sep 27, 2013)

Seb said:


> One is a baseball bat and the other is a knife, how's that?



Don't make me go Three Stooges on ya!

Nyuk-nyuk.


----------



## Seb (Sep 27, 2013)

With all due respect to those two vendors, I wouldn't rely on those numbers at all.


----------



## Frater_Decus (Sep 27, 2013)

Seb said:


> With all due respect to those two vendors, I wouldn't rely on those numbers at all.



Agreed, I would like to see some numbers from people who own them. I wish I had a scale!


----------



## skiajl6297 (Sep 27, 2013)

Obiwan - welcome. Aside from the bickering, you will find this a very informative and welcoming place for learning about kitchen knives. A lot of jnat lovers here too, and we collectively are big into sharpening our own gear, so you'll fit right in. I got into straight razors from this forum, and I am sure you will be just as well rewarded going in the reverse direction. Also, always good to know another accomplished razor honer in our midst! I think you should most definitely scour the forum and vendor pages and learn as much as you can about the numerous options/knife styles/lexicon out there, and keep an eye on the BST for deals - there are frequent and substantial deals to be had!


----------



## Seb (Sep 27, 2013)

Besides, if you check out the pic at Aoki Hamono you get a good indication of that massive profile I've been talking about. Thing is like a freakin machete.


----------



## Obiwan (Sep 27, 2013)

skiajl6297 said:


> Obiwan - welcome. Aside from the bickering, you will find this a very informative and welcoming place for learning about kitchen knives. A lot of jnat lovers here too, and we collectively are big into sharpening our own gear, so you'll fit right in. I got into straight razors from this forum, and I am sure you will be just as well rewarded going in the reverse direction. Also, always good to know another accomplished razor honer in our midst! I think you should most definitely scour the forum and vendor pages and learn as much as you can about the numerous options/knife styles/lexicon out there, and keep an eye on the BST for deals - there are frequent and substantial deals to be had!



Thanks. As for the creative bickering, makes me feel like Sunday dinner at home. I enjoy it. It's actually insightful.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Sep 27, 2013)

Mike Lee can be a little cantankerous at times but he knows a looooot about knives and is one smart SOB. I try not to argue with him, but if you can get him on your good side, he will open doors in your knife knowledge that you never knew existed. 



Frater_Decus said:


> Noted, and thank you for the disclaimer!



Saying that "this is the best knife" around here is only cause you pain. There are preferences, I like em light, nible and thin. Others like them heavy, thick and robust (but still thin behind the edge.

One brand that I hear almost universal praise for is the Yusuke Sakai. I'm guily as I have five of them. Some thick some thin and some ultra thin. 

If a 240 Guyto Yusuke Sakai in White #2 doesn't send you into knife nut euphoria. Then you probably don't like thin knives. 

good luck with your search.


----------



## Admin (Sep 27, 2013)

I deleted a few post here. If you have nothing nice to say don't say it.


----------



## tk59 (Sep 27, 2013)

For what it's worth, I've used all of these laser-clones (own most of them) and the GC. Seb is absolutely correct. The GC doesn't belong in this group. In hand, feels similar in terms of weight but in use, its inferiority is painfully apparent. It doesn't get talked about much here because it isn't a great value either.


----------



## Frater_Decus (Sep 27, 2013)

tk59 said:


> For what it's worth, I've used all of these laser-clones (own most of them) and the GC. Seb is absolutely correct. The GC doesn't belong in this group. In hand, feels similar in terms of weight but in use, its inferiority is painfully apparent. It doesn't get talked about much here because it isn't a great value either.



Can you break it down for me, please? I personally have no complaints about my GC Wa, after opening up the edge, but if I'm missing something obvious, I'm happy to learn. Bearing in mind of course that there is no universal "best" knife for everyone, it seems strange to label it as inferior unless there is a quantifiable reason -- which would seem to actually be subjective, in this case. Can you detail why you don't like it, with hard data? I honestly want to learn more and so forth, and I also don't place value in speculation. Hope we can discuss without having a heated argument  

"De gustibus non est disputandum," as they say!


----------



## chuck239 (Sep 27, 2013)

I own a cutco and it's also an amazing laser. Highly recoomended. Anyone who disagrees has no idea what they are talking about. Even if you own one and all comparable knives. I own it, it's amazing. Best knife in the world. 

Back to reality, I have also used several of the knives being talked about. The GC does not perform like the other lasers being mentioned. The Yusuke Sakai and ginga both perform better and feel better in hand and while using in my opinion. But I have only used all of the knives I have mentioned.... I would reccomend trying one of these other knives at some point for yourself to see if you like them better. Do you have any knives to compare your GC to? Or are you just saying its amazing with never comparing it to any other J knives.

As for handles, 2 wa handles can be very different. I have owned some that are very skinny and light weight, some that are very thick handles, the length can vary, the F&F on the handles can be different. Yes you did notice the colors in the photos were different and we are all very impressed by that. Please though, maybe think "this person had held both knives in there hand... Maybe the handles are not the same. I fact, he has a photo of both knives in his possession..... Maybe the handles are different even though they are the same general shape." It's like 2 cars that kind of look the same can be very different from one another.

To the OP, there is a ton of great info in this thread. Honestly, I would try many of the knives recommended but not the GC. I feel there are better knives for the same kind of money. Also, I saw someone mentioned a kochi.... I do love that knife! 

-Chuck


----------



## harlock0083 (Sep 27, 2013)

I would love to try the Ginga. How does it compare to the Yusuke?


----------



## Frater_Decus (Sep 27, 2013)

chuck239 said:


> Back to reality, I have also used several of the knives being talked about. The GC does not perform like the other lasers being mentioned. The Yusuke Sakai and ginga both perform better and feel better in hand and while using in my opinion. But I have only used all of the knives I have mentioned.... I would reccomend trying one of these other knives at some point for yourself to see if you like them better. Do you have any knives to compare your GC to? Or are you just saying its amazing with never comparing it to any other J knives.
> 
> As for handles, 2 wa handles can be very different. I have owned some that are very skinny and light weight, some that are very thick handles, the length can vary, the F&F on the handles can be different. Yes you did notice the colors in the photos were different and we are all very impressed by that. Please though, maybe think "this person had held both knives in there hand... Maybe the handles are not the same. I fact, he has a photo of both knives in his possession..... Maybe the handles are different even though they are the same general shape." It's like 2 cars that kind of look the same can be very different from one another.



Firstly, I am definitely not being rude or saying that the GC is objectively the best knife ever, or is superior to any other knife mentioned here, so I would appreciate less insulting behavior and more open dialogue backed up with actual hard facts. Everything else is subjective, and personal taste. I personally like my GC, and want to know, empirically, what is wrong with it, and why. As mentioned, I am totally willing to learn and hear people out, but without a real concrete reason, this is just squabbling.

Secondly, again, your insults are not appreciated, but disregarding that -- can you detail what is wrong with the F&F of the GC? As stated, I want to learn, but the objective "why" something is "better" seems to be ignored here.

Finally, yes, I have other knives, and look forward to expanding my collection and learning with experience and an open mind. You'll have to pardon my skepticism, but I really am just asking for concrete details.


----------



## harlock0083 (Sep 27, 2013)

Frater_Decus said:


> Firstly, I am definitely not being rude or saying that the GC is objectively the best knife ever, or is superior to any other knife mentioned here, so I would appreciate less insulting behavior and more open dialogue backed up with actual hard facts. Everything else is subjective, and personal taste. I personally like my GC, and want to know, empirically, what is wrong with it, and why. As mentioned, I am totally willing to learn and hear people out, but without a real concrete reason, this is just squabbling.
> 
> Secondly, again, your insults are not appreciated, but disregarding that -- can you detail what is wrong with the F&F of the GC? As stated, I want to learn, but the objective "why" something is "better" seems to be ignored here.
> 
> Finally, yes, I have other knives, and look forward to expanding my collection and learning with experience and an open mind. You'll have to pardon my skepticism, but I really am just asking for concrete details.



I think you would be better off trying a Sakai Yusuke yourself. It would be the best way to resolve this matter I think.


----------



## Frater_Decus (Sep 27, 2013)

It's on my buy list, definitely! I look forward to giving it a shot.


----------



## Obiwan (Sep 27, 2013)

Do vendors (other than on eBay) generally offer the sakai yusuke?


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (Sep 27, 2013)

Obiwan said:


> Do vendors (other than on eBay) generally offer it?



The only one I know of is CKtG and they have no stock at the moment, not to mention a very limited choice of knives.

Bluewayjapan is an exceptionally reputable eBay dealer. Don't be afraid to purchase from them. Do arrange for EMS shipping rather than SAL, as it is well worth the price to get your knife in a timely manner. I've made several purchases from them and have never had a problem.

Rick


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Sep 27, 2013)

Obiwan, There seems to be another vendor offering Yusuke Knives but the primary retailer has been our go to has been Keiichi Omay OKA Blueway Japan. His integrity, customer service and response times are of the highest order. IMHO, his prices are very humble for what he provides to the US market. 

OB just remember, if you want to fall in love with a nice knife, you can, but your search will not stop, the curiosity builds and before you know it your in line waiting for a ITK Devin Thomas. Oh wait, im talking about myself. ;-)


----------



## Obiwan (Sep 27, 2013)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> The only one I know of is CKtG and they have no stock at the moment, not to mention a very limited choice of knives.
> 
> Bluewayjapan is an exceptionally reputable eBay dealer. Don't be afraid to purchase from them. Do arrange for EMS shipping rather than SAL, as it is well worth the price to get your knife in a timely manner. I've made several purchases from them and have never had a problem.
> 
> Rick



Oh I don't fear eBay vendors. I just always try to support forum supporting ones. If he is and the "go to" guy for these blades, I'm happy to buy from him.


----------



## bkdc (Sep 27, 2013)

harlock0083 said:


> I would love to try the Ginga. How does it compare to the Yusuke?



I ... well now my girlfriend... have a 240mm Sakai-Yusuke wa-gyuto, and I own a 240mm Ginga Western gyuto. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in the steel and profile. Except for some variance on the handles, I can't tell the difference among Gesshin Ginga, Konosuke HH, Sakai Yusuke extra-hard, and Konosuke HD gyutos except my Kono HD gyuto seems to be ground a tad bit thinner (and quite a bit thinner at the tip). This might just be an abberation on my HD specimen. Yes, I own all these knives (redundance!!!!) except my gf now owns the Sakai Yusuke. I'm impressed that she has taken a liking to such a laser sharp knife.

I can almost guess that the same artisans are working on the different branded knives. They are that similar.


----------



## hutchla (Sep 27, 2013)

+1 for the Kochi. I went from a Shun Classic to a Kochi V2 kurouchi 240 wa-gyuto and couldn't be happier.

The Kochi has a stiff blade like your Shun, it's light but not too light, and very comfortable to use. I find the 240mm size to be great for a home cook like myself. I'm glad I didn't get the 210. Not sure if you find its aesthetics appealing but I think it looks bad ass. Based on your original message, the only thing, aside from price, I'm not sure I'd recommend it for is rock chopping.

Otherwise the Kochi is an awesome cutter, super fun to use, and it's easy to sharpen. I do find that it has a good amount of stickage but, having never used one, I assume the lasers mentions in this thread will too.


----------



## NO ChoP! (Sep 27, 2013)

I had a Grand Chef, about the same time I purchased an HD. My expectations were met with the Konosuke. 

I would say that a GC is a relatively lightweight and thin knife, but does not follow suit with regards to profile especially, as well as geometry, when it comes to the Sakai style. 

I also purchased a Yusuke, but sold it, only because I favored the semi stainless of my HD, but the Yusuke is a special knife in this class. They are flawless, and packaged perfectly.

I will say that after years of trying knives, the Sakai lasers seem a bit vanilla these days...I like the Kochi and Ittinomon recommendations.


----------



## Seb (Sep 27, 2013)

Almost fresh out the box:







You can even see the sheen from the lacquer coating is still on. I agree they are a little vanilla compared to what's in these days. But they are perfect and that is something to behold.


----------



## harlock0083 (Sep 28, 2013)

Seb said:


> Almost fresh out the box:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



White 2?


----------



## XooMG (Sep 28, 2013)

I'm a new user here and want to thank everyone who contributed in this thread since it helped me a bit in making a decision on my first gyuto.

At first I was going to get a Gesshin Ginga but I live/work in a humid and damp environment and the stainless Ginga was sold out. I guess they'll restock immediately now that I've ordered something else.

Fetched one of the Sakai Yusuke 210s with higher hardness:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380724988733

Too bad it doesn't come with a saya, but I'll try to figure something out.

Hopefully I didn't make a tragic mistake.


----------



## Timthebeaver (Sep 28, 2013)

harlock0083 said:


> White 2?



Yes


----------



## Timthebeaver (Sep 28, 2013)

XooMG said:


> I'm a new user here and want to thank everyone who contributed in this thread since it helped me a bit in making a decision on my first gyuto.
> 
> At first I was going to get a Gesshin Ginga but I live/work in a humid and damp environment and the stainless Ginga was sold out. I guess they'll restock immediately now that I've ordered something else.
> 
> ...



I'd say you made an excellent decision. Personally I love the profile on the 210mm Sakai knives.

If you ask Keiichi (the seller) he will source you a saya. If it's too late for that, just make one out of cardboard and duct tape.:biggrin:


----------



## XooMG (Sep 28, 2013)

Timthebeaver said:


> I'd say you made an excellent decision. Personally I love the profile on the 210mm Sakai knives.
> 
> If you ask Keiichi (the seller) he will source you a saya. If it's too late for that, just make one out of cardboard and duct tape.:biggrin:


Thanks and double thanks for the tip. Since it's the weekend, there might still be a chance, so I sent the seller a message. Not a huge loss though if I can't get one that fits great.

Reading around made me almost regret not hunting for an extra-thin one, but that's what reading on the internet does to a person...


----------



## XooMG (Sep 28, 2013)

XooMG said:


> Thanks and double thanks for the tip. Since it's the weekend, there might still be a chance, so I sent the seller a message. Not a huge loss though if I can't get one that fits great.
> 
> Reading around made me almost regret not hunting for an extra-thin one, but that's what reading on the internet does to a person...


Looks like I got hooked up with a saya. No retaining pin, but that's not a huge problem or a super-difficult project. At least it saves me from having to carve one from balsa or doing the tape/cardboard thing.


----------



## NO ChoP! (Sep 28, 2013)

I've used bamboo skewers and an 1/8" bit....


----------



## joetbn (Sep 28, 2013)

XooMG said:


> Looks like I got hooked up with a saya. No retaining pin, but that's not a huge problem or a super-difficult project. At least it saves me from having to carve one from balsa or doing the tape/cardboard thing.



Go to a music store and pick up a set of acoustic guitar bridge pins, anywhere from $5.00 - $20.00 for a set of 6 depending on material. plastic, ebony, boxwood, ivory, ect. they are perfect size.


----------



## labor of love (Sep 28, 2013)

joetbn said:


> Go to a music store and pick up a set of acoustic guitar bridge pins, anywhere from $5.00 - $20.00 for a set of 6 depending on material. plastic, ebony, boxwood, ivory, ect. they are perfect size.



good idea.


----------



## jaybett (Sep 28, 2013)

Back to the original question. 

There is no one gyuto that can be considered the best. One forum members perfect gyuto, maybe an okay knife for another member. To find a gyuto that works well for a person is a trial and error process. For most of us that is a good thing. Not so good for those on a budget. 

How do you find a knife that fits your cutting style, without having a lot of experience? Get in contact with a vendor such as Jon or Maxim. They have spent countless hours developing their product. Most of what they sell has been made to their specification, not ordered out of a catalog. They also have a lot of experience, matching knives to their customers wants and wishes. 

I enjoy trying out new knifes, as most members do. The Buy Sell and Trade section is a good place to try out knives without too much risk. Popularity of knives, rise and fall. I've been able to pick up some knifes that were no longer in style, at a very good price. 

Jay


----------



## Jim (Sep 29, 2013)

Obiwan, i'm late to the party, welcome to the KKF. Glad to see you over here.


----------



## Obiwan (Sep 30, 2013)

Thanks Jim. Tons of great info here. I feel myself getting myself into tempting trouble, lol.


----------



## tk59 (Oct 4, 2013)

jaybett said:


> ...To find a gyuto that works well for a person is a trial and error process...


It can be. On the other hand, I've found that quite a few knives that I thought were just okay at one point, are actually really nice to use. Sometimes it just takes a bit of getting to know your knife. Thinner knives are generally more beginner-friendly, in my opinion.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Oct 4, 2013)

joetbn said:


> Go to a music store and pick up a set of acoustic guitar bridge pins, anywhere from $5.00 - $20.00 for a set of 6 depending on material. plastic, ebony, boxwood, ivory, ect. they are perfect size.



I have used these also,saw them shorter & whittle a little,like the black ones wt. abaloni inlay.XooMG great choice,you got yourself a fine knife


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Oct 4, 2013)

tk59 said:


> It can be. On the other hand, I've found that quite a few knives that I thought were just okay at one point, are actually really nice to use. Sometimes it just takes a bit of getting to know your knife. Thinner knives are generally more beginner-friendly, in my opinion.



Yes and easier to sharpen.


----------



## XooMG (Oct 4, 2013)

keithsaltydog said:


> I have used these also,saw them shorter & whittle a little,like the black ones wt. abaloni inlay.XooMG great choice,you got yourself a fine knife


Thanks. I actually got a pack of six ebony/abalone pins...only one or two are really pretty but that's what I get for not being able to see before buying. I don't have a big enough drill bit at the moment, so I drilled a much smaller hole and am temporarily using a decapitated cotton swab as a pin.

The handle is iichi so the ho saya, which seems a bit big but fits tightly and wobble-free with the new pin, is kind of pale. I just put on a layer of tung oil and will let it soak in and dry a bit. Considered a stain but don't have any.

The Yusuke is an impressive knife. I really like the geometry and the thin edge. Though I only got the 210mm gyuto, it's a long knife for my kitchen, which until now has only seen my 170mm cleaver and some smaller knives. Haven't had a chance to cut with it yet (cutting board hasn't arrived yet), but hope to get a chance soon.

Still wonder about the Ginga, but I think I made a pretty good choice, as a few of you have said. I thought about a junker gyuto to cut my teeth on the blade design and cutting methods (coming from a Chinese slicer background), but didn't want another rubbish knife laying around. Might still be a good idea though since I'm handling the Yusuke so delicately right now.


----------



## Seb (Oct 5, 2013)

You can cut on plastic no problem. I never bother with my wooden boards any more.


----------



## ChiliPepper (Oct 5, 2013)

Seb said:


> You can cut on plastic no problem. I never bother with my wooden boards any more.



+1


----------



## XooMG (Oct 5, 2013)

Seb said:


> You can cut on plastic no problem. I never bother with my wooden boards any more.


I'm actually waiting on a small rubber board since I have no board in my current apartment, but it's very interesting to hear about using plastic. Wasn't expecting that in a community like this. Thanks for the breath of fresh air after a lot of reading about end grain boards.

I'm still on my first coat of tung oil and have some work to do, but wanted to share a picture of my proud new acquisition...


----------



## Ruso (Oct 5, 2013)

As for the board goes, I am strongly believer that wood is much better then plastic. Unless the things you value are lightness ans dishwasher safeness.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Oct 5, 2013)

XooMG said:


> I'm actually waiting on a small rubber board since I have no board in my current apartment, but it's very interesting to hear about using plastic. Wasn't expecting that in a community like this. Thanks for the breath of fresh air after a lot of reading about end grain boards.
> 
> I'm still on my first coat of tung oil and have some work to do, but wanted to share a picture of my proud new acquisition...



That Ebony inlay pin looks good,Enjoy your new blade,it's a good cutter you don't have to baby it


----------



## bkdc (Oct 12, 2013)

I did another inspection of my Ginga knives, and I'd like to add that they don't seem to be ground quite as thin as the Sakai Yusuke or Konosuke knives. The spine at the tip is a little thicker as is the blade about 1cm above the edge. The tips on the Konosukes seem especially thin on my HD2 and HH. The Ginga is still an awesome knife, but just commenting on my specimens. It'll probably spare the knives from a tip chip since Konosukes are known to encounter tip chips pretty easily. This is a comparison between a Western handled Ginga and a wa-handled Konosuke and Sakai Yusuke. It might be just my specimens. They are still very thin behind the edge. Those Yusuke photos look sooo purty.


----------

