# difference nakaya heiji and gesshin heiji



## menno (Feb 27, 2014)

i want to order a heiji direct from nakaya heiji. what makes the gesshin heiji much more expensive than the nakaya heiji.


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## dannynyc (Feb 27, 2014)

First, there is a middleman, and Jon's got to make a living. Second, according to Gesshin owners, Jon is meticulous about quality control so there is less of a guess factor as to whether you're getting a good specimen.


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## CoqaVin (Feb 27, 2014)

Yea John has it tweaked to his personal specs I believe


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## menno (Feb 27, 2014)

Is iT a good idea to let nakaya heiji make the knife to my own specs. For example make the knife a bit thinner. is there someone who Has a heiji gyuto direct from nakaya heiji and what did he found of the knife?


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## jamaster14 (Feb 27, 2014)

menno said:


> Is iT a good idea to let nakaya heiji make the knife to my own specs. For example make the knife a bit thinner. is there someone who Has a heiji gyuto direct from nakaya heiji and what did he found of the knife?



i spoke with a few people who have gotten them direct from heiji with some customization(thinner geometry) and they were extremely pleased with the results. i'm sure jon has really gotten down his customization,... and all accounts are that the Gesshin line is very impressive and worth the pricetag. but if you do decided to go direct through heiji i doubt you would be disappointed with the end result. your still talking about the same materials and maker with a fantastic reputation.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Feb 27, 2014)

menno said:


> Is iT a good idea to let nakaya heiji make the knife to my own specs. For example make the knife a bit thinner. is there someone who Has a heiji gyuto direct from nakaya heiji and what did he found of the knife?



Not a long time ago Yamabushi got his Heiji knives . Might be interesting to you


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## menno (Feb 27, 2014)

Thenks for the information.


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## Asteger (Feb 27, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Not a long time ago Yamabushi got his Heiji knives . Might be interesting to you



Yamabushi was also quite pleased with the knives he got. He didn't request any customisation, though.

On a side note, you can't really directly contact many makers in Japan through a semi-English website, but Heiji is one of them. Cool that Heiji does this and would be great to see more of it.


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## menno (Feb 27, 2014)

Do you think it's a great idea to ask nakaya heiji to make the knife approximately 2 mm thin OR is it to thin for the knife?


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## labor of love (Feb 27, 2014)

menno said:


> Do you think it's a great idea to ask nakaya heiji to make the knife approximately 2 mm thin OR is it to thin for the knife?



Dont ask him that.


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## jamaster14 (Feb 27, 2014)

labor of love said:


> Dont ask him that.



agreed... he is the the smith, just let him know you want it thinner and let him use his judgement


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Feb 27, 2014)

labor of love said:


> Dont ask him that.


What's wrong with that? My Konosuke 240mm is 2.1mm at the thickest point and cuts very nicely


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## labor of love (Feb 27, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> What's wrong with that? My Konosuke 240mm is 2.1mm at the thickest point and cuts very nicely



Heiji is not konosuke though. What makes heijis great is the steel, heat treat and grind. With a 2mm spine theres not really anything he can do grind wise. Just grab a tanaka damascus if you want a carbon laser. Or check out carters. It just doesnt make a lot of sense to request that sort of thing from heiji, rather you should go to maker who is known for making great thin knives.


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## menno (Feb 27, 2014)

Oke
I'll just send him a mail and say to him and ask if he can make it a little bit thinner but not too thin just what he thinks is the best for the knife.
Thanks for all the info


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## labor of love (Feb 27, 2014)

menno said:


> Oke
> I'll just send him a mail and say to him and ask if he can make it a little bit thinner but not too thin just what he thinks is the best for the knife.
> Thanks for all the info



Ive asked him about that before. He will make a thinner knife for you. If you end up purchasing a knife please share pictures of it with us.


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## Ruso (Feb 27, 2014)

I got Heiji Santoku in SS from him directly and find it to be on a thick spectrum. Pretty much impossible to cut onions with ease for example. In addition I am not to fond of the steel, does not seem to hold edge to well. Latter could be as well my sharpening mistakes.


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## schanop (Feb 27, 2014)

If you are in the US probably should opt for Jon's offering. I doubt you'd save much from buying direct with saya, shipping, and
payment fee being added on top.

If you are out side the US like me, that's quite a different story. I have bought three directly, and been very pleased with them.


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## EdipisReks (Feb 27, 2014)

labor of love said:


> Dont ask him that.



Why? He was perfectly happy to make me a 270mm that was 2mm at the shinogi, when I inquired last month, I just ran out of money due to some unexpected expenses and ended up not being able to. I think it would have cut great. Admittedly, it would have been thicker than 2mm at the spine.


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## jamaster14 (Feb 27, 2014)

schanop said:


> If you are in the US probably should opt for Jon's offering. I doubt you'd save much from buying direct with saya, shipping, and
> payment fee being added on top.
> 
> If you are out side the US like me, that's quite a different story. I have bought three directly, and been very pleased with them.



im not sure what the price differences are with all the knives, but a 240mm semi stainless gyuto heiji w/ burnt chestnut handle he quoted me approx. $257 USD including shipping to the US. $500 for the gesshin 240mm. so there is some savings. that quote did not include a saya, im not sure what that would go for


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## bkultra (Feb 27, 2014)

Make sure take into account the cost of adding a saya, upgraded burnt chestnut octagon handle, shipping, etc.


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## schanop (Feb 27, 2014)

Forgive my yen vs USD ignorance, master. A year or two ago when I first looked at my options, it wasn't that much of a difference
from US perspective. I do recall EdipisReks saying something along the same line not so long ago though.


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## labor of love (Feb 27, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> Why? He was perfectly happy to make me a 270mm that was 2mm at the shinogi, when I inquired last month, I just ran out of money due to some unexpected expenses and ended up not being able to. I think it would have cut great. Admittedly, it would have been thicker than 2mm at the spine.



He wants to ask heiji to make a knife with a 2mm spine though. Edipis, you talk about how much you love the shoulders on your heijis all the time, right? Am i missing something here? It just seems to me all the great stuff heiji is known for would be lost with a blade that has a spine thats only 2mm thick. Please correct me if im wrong.


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## jamaster14 (Feb 27, 2014)

schanop said:


> Forgive my yen vs USD ignorance, master. A year or two ago when I first looked at my options, it wasn't that much of a difference
> from US perspective. I do recall EdipisReks saying something along the same line not so long ago though.



Heiji quoted me a couple weeks ago... not sure if his prices have come down or not? but here where his exact numbers in YEN:

Gyuto semi-stainless 240mmis 23100JPY
Shipping fee to USA is 1860JPY.
Paypal fee is 1270JPY.
total is 26230JPY.

also to be factored in is the 4 month wait Heiji estimates on the knife, although JKI doesnt have any in stock and wasnt sure on restock when i asked.


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## menno (Feb 27, 2014)

The totalprice of the 240 mm gyuto pro with burnt chestnut handle + shipping + saya was 320


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## menno (Feb 27, 2014)

I forgot to mention it's the iwasaki special sweden carbon steel.


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## schanop (Feb 27, 2014)

Let's say if saya were about 4800 yen, payment fee, 5% payment fee, and USD vs yen at 75-80 yen, then we were looking at around 400USD.


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## jamaster14 (Feb 27, 2014)

schanop said:


> Let's say if saya were about 4800 yen, payment fee, 5% payment fee, and USD vs yen at 75-80 yen, then we were looking at around 400USD.



payment fee?

26230 + 4800Y for the saya = 31030Y = $305 USD. if you tack on 5% that is $320 USD

http://usd.fxexchangerate.com/jpy


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## Von blewitt (Feb 27, 2014)

I have ordered direct from Heiji and owned a Gesshin Heiji, the knife I bought direct wasn't mounted straight in the handle, had a slightly overground heel, and the polish was on the "rough" side, the gesshin had none of those issues, + the spine and choil were eased. performance was identical.


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## schanop (Feb 27, 2014)

jamaster14 said:


> payment fee?
> 
> 26230 + 4800Y for the saya = 31030Y = $305 USD. if you tack on 5% that is $320 USD
> 
> http://usd.fxexchangerate.com/jpy



Yes, your are correct, MASTER. But I did say if usd vs yen were at the rock bottom as when I first looked at options back a year or two ago.


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## jamaster14 (Feb 27, 2014)

schanop said:


> Yes, your are correct, MASTER. But I did say if usd vs yen were at the rock bottom as when I first looked at options back a year or two ago.



ah ok i see what you are saying


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## menno (Feb 27, 2014)

For me iT was 26250 for knife +4850 saya + 2400 shipping to the netherlands + 1600 Paypal=35080= 250 euro=345 dollard


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## menno (Feb 27, 2014)

With all the extra costs it's About 450 dollar wich is 330 euro


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## mhlee (Feb 27, 2014)

Ruso said:


> I got Heiji Santoku in SS from him directly and find it to be on a thick spectrum. Pretty much impossible to cut onions with ease for example. In addition I am not to fond of the steel, does not seem to hold edge to well. Latter could be as well my sharpening mistakes.



NO Heiji knives are thin at the spine. Nonetheless, I've used a few Gesshin Heijis and own one and, although they don't cut like lasers, I've never had a problem with onions and they have good food release. The geometry of Heijis is different than many other makers, but one of the best characteristics of Heijis is the food release. 

I'd venture to say that, if your Heiji didn't cut well out of the box, it wasn't ground as well as it could have been. But, if it cut fine at first and now doesn't, it's your sharpening.


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## insomniac (Feb 27, 2014)

Its a parallel import versus local retailer comparison. Frankly, the main difference is just a matter of principal. JKI's a brick & mortar shop trying to promote a family of product but with its own costs. Honestly, some people are excited saving that 20-30% or whatever and there's no changing their mind. And reality is the product could come out pretty much the same.

But through JKI you try to price out a little of the uncertainty--you get a QC inspection before purchase (in fact you could go in and do it yourself) and some degree of maintenance support post purchase if for whatever reason the knife suffers any damage. I assume you plan to use the knife for a long time at this price point--that is a real scenario unless you're in the industry yourself. You also have a local expert on your product who can advise you on how to get the most out of it.

Prior to that, even under assumption Heiji-san does give you a knife with great F&F, a lot can happen to the knife when its travelling via EMS half way round the world. If it arrives at your door with a broken tip or whatever, you'll most likely pay the difference and more getting it fixed. Sending it back to Japan will also be a real pain if you are in the US.

But, yes, there's a real chance you could get practically the exact same thing for cheaper-you mainly give up soft benefits. end of day, your money's on the table so you can do whatever you'd like.


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## schanop (Feb 27, 2014)

Well put, insomniac.


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## EdipisReks (Feb 27, 2014)

labor of love said:


> He wants to ask heiji to make a knife with a 2mm spine though. Edipis, you talk about how much you love the shoulders on your heijis all the time, right? Am i missing something here? It just seems to me all the great stuff heiji is known for would be lost with a blade that has a spine thats only 2mm thick. Please correct me if im wrong.



It was a 270 I wanted him to make, and they are big, big knives. I figured having the knife be 2mm at the shinogi would make it perform more like a longer 240, while retaining the shape. Heiji-san seemed to think it would work.


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## TheDispossessed (Feb 27, 2014)

take the base price of the knife, add a better handle, a says, custom charges, and you get pretty close to JKI's prices. 
at which point you could support the family who made you aware of the product in the first place.
I support small business all the way. 
the internet could potentially kill small business, please don't let that happen.
peace


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## jamaster14 (Feb 27, 2014)

TheDispossessed said:


> take the base price of the knife, add a better handle, a says, custom charges, and you get pretty close to JKI's prices.
> at which point you could support the family who made you aware of the product in the first place.
> I support small business all the way.
> the internet could potentially kill small business, please don't let that happen.
> peace



the only thing that has me going through heiji over JKI is the time frame. id gladly give them the business if they had some in stock, or a more set idea on when more stock might be in. 

i only listed the price as it seemed to be inaccurately discussed compared to what i was quoted.


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## menno (Feb 28, 2014)

I live in. The netherlands. An other reason i did not. Bought from jki is the huge shipping costs. IT was About 100 dollar versus 2400 yen in Japan. I don't know how much dollar that is but it's Way cheaper


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## schanop (Feb 28, 2014)

Go with Nakaya Heiji direct, in this case, IMO.


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## chefcomesback (Feb 28, 2014)

I don't live in US , If I did I would have ordered from JKI


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## labor of love (Feb 28, 2014)

I wouldnt mind paying extra just to get the burnt chestnut handle and saya from jki. Seriously, those are the nicest burnt chestnut handles ive ever seen. But if what i want isnt in stock at jki, i wouldnt feel bad just ordering direct instead.


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## menno (Feb 28, 2014)

So do you thinks it's à great knife to buy direct from nakaya.
I have orders iT whit chestnut handle.


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## jaybett (Feb 28, 2014)

menno said:


> So do you thinks it's à great knife to buy direct from nakaya.
> I have orders iT whit chestnut handle.



How comfortable would you be taking care of any problems that might arise? Shipping knives to Japan and back gets expensive quickly. Unless shipping costs or import duty fees are prohibitive, I'd prefer to purchase from a trusted vendor. 

Vendors know what people in the west value in a knife, and are able to communicate that to the maker. I had a vendor apologize for the amount of time it took to fulfill an order, because the handle on the first three knifes he got from the maker were rough. Besides doing quality control, a vendor can help match up a knife to a user's preference. Mistakes are going to happen, I'd rather have somebody who knows who to work with a maker instead of trying to go it alone. 

Jay


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## panda (Feb 28, 2014)

Why are you looking at a thick knife if you want a thin one?? Plenty of options for lasers..


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## Lefty (Feb 28, 2014)

I didn't read through this whole thread, but I will say that purchase price, QC, guarantee, ease of purchase, and Jon's specs are a large part of why they are priced as they are. Jon's guarantee is worth it alone.


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## jamaster14 (Feb 28, 2014)

Lefty said:


> I didn't read through this whole thread, but I will say that purchase price, QC, guarantee, ease of purchase, and Jon's specs are a large part of why they are priced as they are. Jon's guarantee is worth it alone.



agree with all of this.... hope he gets some stock soon!


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## JBroida (Feb 28, 2014)

Me too


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## Ruso (Feb 28, 2014)

LOL


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## ryann (Mar 1, 2014)

I don't know much about engraving, but excuse me if I think this one Heiji did of my family name looks pretty cool


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## Von blewitt (Mar 1, 2014)

If anyone is interested Japan-tool has a couple of 210mm KU swedish carbon gyutos in stock at the moment, also a couple of 210 santokus.

A 210 Heiji semi stainless santoku has been my home knife for the last year + 1/2, I love it!


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## menno (Mar 1, 2014)

today i'm gonna pay the knife direct from nakaya heiji. i have requested a little bit thinner spine. he made a drawing of the knife




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## menno (Mar 1, 2014)

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?u...tt&th=144760f2fe86f609&attid=0.1&disp=safe&zw


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## labor of love (Mar 1, 2014)

menno said:


> https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?u...tt&th=144760f2fe86f609&attid=0.1&disp=safe&zw



Its asking me for a password? Can you just upload the pic to imageshack or photobucket?


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## menno (Mar 1, 2014)

no, but basically it's approximately 2,5 mm at the spine and it tapers down to 2 mm at the tip.


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## panda (Mar 1, 2014)

why don't you just get a yusuke 2.2mm white #2?


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## menno (Mar 1, 2014)

panda said:


> why don't you just get a yusuke 2.2mm white #2?


i already have a richmond kohetsu gyuto wich is approximately 2,1/2.2 mm. now i wanted to try a little bit thicker knife.altough i have requested for a bit thinner it's still thicker than the kohetsu. unfortanutely i already ordered the knife.


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## schanop (Mar 1, 2014)

It is very unfortunate that you will have to wait a few months before the knife arrives :lol2:


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## menno (Mar 1, 2014)

schanop said:


> It is very unfortunate that you will have to wait a few months before the knife arrives :lol2:



yes, he said it's approximately 4 months :crying: :crying:
these months are going to be killing


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## Von blewitt (Mar 1, 2014)

In my experience the delay will cause another knife purchase to sooth the aching, often multiple


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## menno (Mar 1, 2014)

Von blewitt said:


> In my experience the delay will cause another knife purchase to sooth the aching, often multiple


first I'll need to save money for another knife. maybe I'll buy some stones in the meantime:biggrin:


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## panda (Mar 19, 2016)

will heiji do rounded spine and choil if you ask? what would be the cost increase? i figure if doing custom, might as well get better f&f.


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## mlau (Mar 25, 2016)

Yup. I don't think there'll be a cost increase.

On my Gyuto and Chuka, both are pretty comfy by default.


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## jacko9 (Mar 25, 2016)

It's been quite a while since this knife was ordered, is there any pictures of the knife as received?


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## mlau (Apr 7, 2016)

Sorry.

I was just going to post some.
I wanted to try it out for a bit first


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