# looking for a big, thick and heavy 270mm workhorse gyuto



## masibu (Oct 18, 2013)

Ive got a number of laser thin gyutos already which I enjoy, howeverbim pooking to try out something a little sturdier and robust to try out. Im looking for something that starts thick at the top of the heel (around 4-5mm) and quickly tapers down to 2mm 15cm from the tip and further still. I like my edges pretty thin, but im thinking/hoping the thicker spine will contribute to greater convexing and less stickage, plus the added weight would also assist in cutting.

Im hoping to spend cheap here so I can determine whether I prefer the feel of my light laser thin gyutos or something with some heft behind it. Id prefer to stick with around $200 budget or even less, although if I can be persuaded to go more expensive and I will definitely enjoy the knife then I guess I can splurge a little. 

We use crappy plastic boards at work, and although I enjoy sharpening, the guys at work hate when I sharpen on the job (they seem to think sharp knives are a waste of time..) so thinking a stainless knife would probably give me longer edge retention on our boards than say my white #2 masamoto (which I love btw) but I love my carbon knives so much... What are some makers that might fit my criteria? If I decide on a carbon knife, would aogami super be best for a knife with lots of board contact on our boards? I don't know what to get! Help!


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## chinacats (Oct 19, 2013)

While not exactly beastly, I really like the Zakuri knives from JKI. Somewhat rustic looking but really just all business. Most are out of stock but not this one.


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## cord_steele (Oct 19, 2013)

Zakuri makes a nice knife. I was going to suggest Kato from Maxim, but it's much more expensive.


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## masibu (Oct 19, 2013)

I was just looking on epic edge and came across the yoshikane skd.. what's the general consensus with this knife?

http://www.epicureanedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=85678&photo=3&size=n


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## labor of love (Oct 19, 2013)

masibu said:


> I was just looking on epic edge and came across the yoshikane skd.. what's the general consensus with this knife?
> 
> http://www.epicureanedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=85678&photo=3&size=n


i think that yoshi skd would be a good choice for a workhorse


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 19, 2013)

masibu said:


> I was just looking on epic edge and came across the yoshikane skd.. what's the general consensus with this knife?
> 
> 
> http://www.epicureanedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=85678&photo=3&size=n



It's something of a forum stalwart*, not fashionable any more though. One of the first "must have" J-knives (along with e.g. Watanabe, Takeda etc.) I have the migaki (polished, not hammered) version - it's somewhere between middleweight and workhorse, awesome distal taper, very thin at the tip, excellent geometry.

My Yoshi cuts like this too:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...Release-Videos?p=233329&viewfull=1#post233329

The core steel is semi-stainless, very tough and reasonably forgiving to sharpen.

As a note, there have been some posts claiming these wa-handled knives vary a little in thickness, and that the western handled variant is proper beastly.

* very old review here

http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php?t-1989.html


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## labor of love (Oct 19, 2013)

i dont know why i didnt already mention watanabe. if your ok with carbon, watanabe is THE workhorse to get!
its pretty crazy that fred paid almost half the current sticker price for the same knife 6 years ago too.


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## easy13 (Oct 19, 2013)

Hiromoto AS, do love my Yoshi SKD also


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## quantumcloud509 (Oct 19, 2013)

Masibu: you asked about aogami, from my experience it is quite a light metal, unless you are thinking something along the lines of a deba. Havent seen too many heavy aogami knives. This past month Ive been using a 240 Takeda and it holds up quite well on plastic boards with light stropping or touch ups here and there. Holds its edgy amazingly long but is very light.


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## Squilliam (Oct 19, 2013)

The alloy of a core steel isn't going to change the weight noticeably.


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 19, 2013)

labor of love said:


> i dont know why i didnt already mention watanabe. if your ok with carbon, watanabe is THE workhorse to get!
> its pretty crazy that fred paid almost half the current sticker price for the same knife 6 years ago too.



I think the first Takeda large cleaver was purchased for about $170!


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## NO ChoP! (Oct 19, 2013)

My Yosh skd is a freckin' beast, literally.


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 19, 2013)

NO ChoP! said:


> My Yosh skd is a freckin' beast, literally.



+1. Yoshi's are awesome.


A 270 Yoshi gyuto is a bit of a monster. (They run long, and are measured heel-to-tip). Wonder if the 270 hammered has the same oversized handle? This Tamamoku owns.


http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/4603-270-Yoshikane-Tamamoku-V2-gyuto


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## stevenStefano (Oct 19, 2013)

NO ChoP! said:


> My Yosh skd is a freckin' beast, literally.



Is it one of the hammered ones?


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## kpnv (Oct 19, 2013)

uh... heiji, kato?


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## JohnnyChance (Oct 19, 2013)

kpnv said:


> uh... heiji, kato?



Those are great, but no where near the $200 budget. 

There aren't a lot of great heavy knives that are thin behind the edge for $200 or less. There is more grinding involved, so more costs. It is cheaper to make a laser (thin stock, less grinding) or a chunky knife (thick stock but you don't grind it anywhere close as thin at the edge). 

If you can, expand your budget a bit. I am pretty confident you will enjoy a nicely made workhorse. Also, figure out what makers interest you and post in the BST. I did this recently with three workhorse knives and found one of each.


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## JDA_NC (Oct 19, 2013)

I really like my Hiromoto AS as a workhorse. I don't think it's quite as thin behind the edge as you want it, but it's in your price range & with some work on the stones, you can get it there. I find edge retention in a pro setting to be decent, and it's easy to sharpen.


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## Noodle Soup (Oct 19, 2013)

chinacats said:


> While not exactly beastly, I really like the Zakuri knives from JKI. Somewhat rustic looking but really just all business. Most are out of stock but not this one.



I have that exact knife and consider it my work horse for sure. Its a BIG knife.


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## Von blewitt (Oct 19, 2013)

Mizuno Tanrenjo? A few of those have popped up on the BST recently for not much more than your budget


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## Benuser (Oct 19, 2013)

JDA_NC said:


> I really like my Hiromoto AS as a workhorse. I don't think it's quite as thin behind the edge as you want it, but it's in your price range & with some work on the stones, you can get it there. I find edge retention in a pro setting to be decent, and it's easy to sharpen.


Recent Hiromotos aren't that fat anymore.


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## droshi (Oct 19, 2013)

JDA_NC said:


> I really like my Hiromoto AS as a workhorse. I don't think it's quite as thin behind the edge as you want it, but it's in your price range & with some work on the stones, you can get it there. I find edge retention in a pro setting to be decent, and it's easy to sharpen.



+1 to this. I just wish they had a Wa handled version (the only reason I got rid of mine). Thinning behind the edge will take some work, but I think that's part of the workhorse idea. And AS steel is one I'd the best for edge retention as far as I know.


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## masibu (Oct 19, 2013)

JohnnyChance said:


> Those are great, but no where near the $200 budget.
> 
> There aren't a lot of great heavy knives that are thin behind the edge for $200 or less. There is more grinding involved, so more costs. It is cheaper to make a laser (thin stock, less grinding) or a chunky knife (thick stock but you don't grind it anywhere close as thin at the edge).
> 
> If you can, expand your budget a bit. I am pretty confident you will enjoy a nicely made workhorse. Also, figure out what makers interest you and post in the BST. I did this recently with three workhorse knives and found one of each.



Ive looked at a few different knives now and it seems my budget will have to expand to get a good one. I have rough stones and am happy to grind at a cheap knife to get what im after but at the end of the day I dont know how my job would compare to a more expensive knife.

the yoshi seems the leader at the moment.. I hate paying those shipping fees to australia though, so if I can cheap it I probably will (maybe shoulda mentioned that). Wasnt finding a lot on jck and havent checked rakuten yet..Would it be worth making a custom moritaka order?

for all the hiromoto lovers, had one for a while and did enjoy it but they dont run thick at the spine at all.


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## Benuser (Oct 19, 2013)

Google site:kitchenknifeforums.com Moritaka AND overgrind
and enjoy.


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## masibu (Oct 19, 2013)

I have a couple of moritakas and whilst they are decent cutters, I did notice those issues.. I have a nakiri (doesnt get much use at least) with a few quirks. It was cheap though...


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## Benuser (Oct 19, 2013)

I wouldn't take the risk, especially because of the way their reseller does respond to complaints.


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## masibu (Oct 19, 2013)

I was going to order directly from moritaka.. are they really that unreasonable? I would like to avoid dramas


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## Benuser (Oct 19, 2013)

They've sold a lot of poorly ground knives through an American vendor, and I must conclude their Quality Control doesn't work as it should. That's all.


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## masibu (Oct 19, 2013)

I have ordered from there before and cant be bothered with using them either. Its expensive for me to order from there anyway


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## Benuser (Oct 19, 2013)

I see two options: having a Western deba, which is a thick gyuto with a fine edge, mostly quite expensive, or
having a worn good old carbon which needs some work. Are you sure you do want a lot of weight, or do you want a blade heavy knife, in which case there are much more options within your budget?


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## masibu (Oct 19, 2013)

The weight isnt a big issue really, im more focused on the thick, heavily tapered spine with good convexing. I like my edges thin but I don't really like uber thin, flexible knifes. The fact that im noticing less stickage on thicker knives is a nice bonus too. I like my masamoto ks profile, so I guess a thicker, more durable version of that would be ideal. 

Im only making numbers up, but I was shooting for around 4-5mm thick at the spine above the heel, tapering down to like 2mm around the halfway mark and then having a nice thin tip.


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## Benuser (Oct 19, 2013)

The Masamoto HC should fit, but I have no personal experience. Anyway, it's far beyond your budget. I know the K-Sabatier to come very near to that description, though. But their carbon steel is much softer.
By the way, with a Misono or Hiromoto 270 you don't have to worry about stiction, even if the spine is about 2.5mm. The right face convexity is very obvious.


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## Benuser (Oct 19, 2013)

I must admit that in no one of the suggestions I've made the requirements about the spine thickness happen to be fulfilled.


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## masibu (Oct 20, 2013)

I found this on rakuten: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/yminfo/item/10004545/

Is this the same one found on the epic edge website? I thought they used skd-11, but rakuten lists theirs as skd-12. skd-11 would give a little better and longer lasting edge than skd-12, right?


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 20, 2013)

masibu said:


> I found this on rakuten: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/yminfo/item/10004545/
> 
> Is this the same one found on the epic edge website? I thought they used skd-11, but rakuten lists theirs as skd-12. skd-11 would give a little better and longer lasting edge than skd-12, right?




Don't get hung up on steel type. If you are interested, I remember a post from Larrin Thomas (bladesmith) where he suggested A2 (skd-12) had better potential as a knife steel than D2 (skd-11).


My Yoshikane is skd-12 (i was told). I'm sure whatever they are using at the moment is good stuff. They make great knives.


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## jaybett (Oct 20, 2013)

The Aritsugu A-Style might be an option. The knife is known for being wear resistant, which means great edge retention, thinning can be a pain though. The newer A-Styles have been reported to be thinner, then the older ones. 

Jay


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## aaamax (Oct 20, 2013)

A few good points here.
As stated, it's amazing that Takedas are truly double priced from just a couple of years ago. What the hell is that all about? Good knives, but not better than say Watanabe that seems to be at about the same price level the last 6 years. 
A 270 Watanabe gyuto is by my reckoning a beast and maybe the best workhorse I have ever encountered. Yes a bit reactive out of the box, but after one shift you'll have a good patina going and then you won't have ANY issues. Forget stainless.


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## CoqaVin (Oct 20, 2013)

where is the best place to buy a Watanabe? Watanabe themselves or anywhere else?


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## aaamax (Oct 20, 2013)

Forgot to add that edge retention on the "beast" is xlnt even on the plastics. Just keep a toothless steel at the ready to swipe now and again. As for price, it's well over you 200 range, but you won't need another one, ever. Considering that, the $350 is a bargain.
Good luck.


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## aaamax (Oct 20, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> where is the best place to buy a Watanabe? Watanabe themselves or anywhere else?


Directly from Sinchi himself. Just go to his site. I think he has a bunch of his cheaper offerings in stock. Otherwise it takes a few weeks and he'll send it out to you. First class guy.


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## CoqaVin (Oct 20, 2013)

Thanks bud 

Sent from my C6606 using Tapatalk now Free


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