# So whats all the fuss about Shigefusa?



## slash (Oct 20, 2014)

As you can tell... i have not used one.Being quite new to chefs knives well (virgin really) what do i know... father two sons sounds very humble... Samurai like.
Are they really the best bladesmiths in japan? so i have been told.
Eventually i will want to see for myself what these blade's are like until then can anyone tell me why you would choose a shig over some of the other famous japanese makers.I know its a personal thing but unless you have used most of the top knives... there is no way of knowing, so i am asking for all you pro's with this experience to give us some insight in to this as, some people cannot afford to spend hundreds if not thousands on some of these beauty's and need to get it right first time.
p.s So is the waiting list really two years long ? And who's the man to get them from a vendor here or directly from them whats the score with that please let me know what you think thanks for your time.


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## drawman623 (Oct 20, 2014)

I just bought two Nakiri knives by Shigefusa from an on line provider. Some are available. I am adding to a thread on this forum every day or two offering photos and objective information about them (not a review per se) but a chance to see some objective comparison.

As far as why they seem to have such a following, I will offer my two cents...but know that I am only a home cook and also fairly new to this knife passion.

My background is investment grade pool cues. Thay are, in my estimation, one of the closest parallel crafts to knife making. I'm published on cue evaluation and have spent years considering the intangibles of why one cue sells and another does not. Both endeavors produce a functional tool that is made better through craft and technique. Both endeavors produce "functional art" made beautiful by its process. So to answer your question about the appeal of Shigefusa knives, one must realize there is a practical side relating to their quality/performance and then an emotional one, as art is truly subjective.

Small forge and long family tradition 
Limited availability 
Superlative finish, all done by hand and all done by traditional method
Uncompromising high standards; an amazing edge
Expertise that may truly represent a qualitative breakthrough others do not possess
Enduring popularity among many experienced users

If mixtures of steel are to separate knife quality then maybe Shigefusa knives have an advantage. If proper tempering makes or breaks the process then perhaps there is no substitution for experience; for "seeing" the right color and knowing when temperatures are optimal. I like to think that these qualities make for genuine value with Shigefusa. What I can say with certainty is that both of my Shig knives are sharper than anything else I own...and I have added a few fantastic knives to my roll in the last year.

Bar none, the Kitaeji finish seems the most polished and smooth I have seen. The damascus layers are there but muted in a haze that must surely have required many hours on the stones. Grind of the spine and choil are careful and thorough. The knives are very comfortable and balanced.

So my fascination is part aesthetic, part recognition of a knife that shows great labor, part impression of its keen edge and yes, part the impression that I own something coveted by elite users. For me, caring for something that took such great time and effort to build is theraputic. I want to show respect to a true artisan. I want to appreciate a true superlative. I'm far from wealthy and grind out the earnings to buy my toys at great personal sacrefice...so I chose Shigefusa as one favorite to explore. Thus far I have no regrets.


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## knyfeknerd (Oct 20, 2014)

Maxim(Japanese Natural Stones) is your best bet to score one. Get on his email list, or just check out his site. They come through pretty often. 
They are really great cutters with a unique grind and good steel. They aren't for everyone though. I have a petty and I long for the day when I can have a 270mm gyuto. The Kitaeji(damascus) with a western handle(pretty rare) is a big unicorn for me.


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## slash (Oct 20, 2014)

drawman623 said:


> I just bought two Nakiri knives by Shigefusa from an on line provider. Some are available. I am adding to a thread on this forum every day or two offering photos and objective information about them (not a review per se) but a chance to see some objective comparison.
> 
> As far as why they seem to have such a following, I will offer my two cents...but know that I am only a home cook and also fairly new to this knife passion.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your post i feel what your saying... beautifully written very poetic thanks drawman.


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## slash (Oct 20, 2014)

knyfeknerd said:


> Maxim(Japanese Natural Stones) is your best bet to score one. Get on his email list, or just check out his site. They come through pretty often.
> They are really great cutters with a unique grind and good steel. They aren't for everyone though. I have a petty and I long for the day when I can have a 270mm gyuto. The Kitaeji(damascus) with a western handle(pretty rare) is a big unicorn for me.


Will look in to that thanks.


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## EdipisReks (Oct 20, 2014)

They are very good knives, but there is a lot of hype. I've owned three, but don't currently own any.


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## Chuckles (Oct 20, 2014)

I recently got my first Shig gyuto, it is a 240 Kasumi. It is a really really nice knife. One of my favorites so far. Cuts through food very easily without being anorexic. It also has better edge retention than I expected, not the best but not a problem either. It is a very well made knife, a standard bearer, and extremely competitive at the price point. Everyone should try one at some point.


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## MrOli (Oct 20, 2014)

Am I wrong to think that while they are an artisan family the price inflation seem to follow the reputation? Don't get me wrong, I cannot judge their products as I have not owned a Shig of my own but I am just curious as why they can commend such high prices against the products of other traditional bladesmiths. 

Who are comparable true hand makers in Japan and how do they fare?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 20, 2014)

MrOli said:


> Am I wrong to think that while they are an artisan family the price inflation seem to follow the reputation? Don't get me wrong, I cannot judge their products as I have not owned a Shig of my own but I am just curious as why they can commend such high prices against the products of other traditional bladesmiths.
> 
> Who are comparable true hand makers in Japan and how do they fare?



Yes, you are wrong. Check out the pricing of knives made by Kiyoshi Kato or Shinichi Watanabe for a comparison. It is true that the secondary market for Shigefusas is a bit inflated due to perceived scarcity.

Rick


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## stereo.pete (Oct 20, 2014)

I own a Shigefusa 240mm Kasumi gyuto and I have/had quite a few high end customs to compare them too. For the fit and finish and overall execution the knife for me is worth the price paid. Again, value is subjective and for me, the history, workmanship, performance all add up to a knife that I will never sell. In fact, I've had three custom's designed around the classic Shigefusa profile as it happens to be my absolute favorite.

I'm a firm believer that everyone needs to own a Shige at some point during their knife collecting years. Whether or not you keep it, is up to your personal preferences, but I've never met someone who did not appreciate it for the work of art that it is.


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## rami_m (Oct 20, 2014)

I have a shig, all I can say is that I have no sticktion. It's very smooth through food ( don't know how to describe it). Each time I used it I enjoyed it immensely. Wish I can take better care of it.


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## brainsausage (Oct 20, 2014)

The Shig performs wonderfully overall in my opinion, it doesn't outright beat every other knife in what ever category, but it has a certain something, a character that I've not experienced in many other knives. The craftsmanship shines through. Rick mentioned Kato, and Watanabe. Two other makers whose work is singularly their own. You can use all kinds of criteria to balance them against each other in terms of performance, F/F, etc. But you know when you're using the knives by those makers.


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## Noodle Soup (Oct 20, 2014)

I have two, a 180 nakiri and a 180 gyuto and have no complaints about either. I've use a large number of different makers but I haven't come close to using them all. So there may be lots of better knives, does it really matter? The 180 gyuto sees the most use as it is a great all round utility knife.


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## Ruso (Oct 20, 2014)

I have one, I love it. Does it worth the price? I did not have enough knives to tell. In my limited collection is the one I enjoy using the most.
As some said, it has that something about it, something that makes you want to use it.


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## panda (Oct 20, 2014)

they're nice, but weren't right for me. it is only worth the going price if it fits what you are looking for. i would love to have a shig suji, but i refuse to even pay $200 for a slicer


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## chinacats (Oct 20, 2014)

panda said:


> they're nice, but weren't right for me. it is only worth the going price if it fits what you are looking for. i would love to have a shig suji, but i refuse to even pay $200 for a slicer



That's only cause you spend all your money on stones...:justkidding:

And as to the question...I believe I will always have one, maybe not the same one, but always at least one...currently 210 wa kasumi and love it...before long though I'll probably go back to another 240. 

Worth the money? To me, yes and not for any one specific thing; as others have mentioned, just damn good at almost everything. My best knife? Not likely...would I sell my best one and keep a Shig? Have and probably will again.

Cheers


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## Lucretia (Oct 21, 2014)

Not a pro, but I love my Shig. I pulled out my 180 gyuto tonight. Not a knife I use all the time, but I was cutting up potatoes, and I haven't found a knife yet that cuts root vegetables like it. Imagine that silky feeling of dissolving cornstarch in water with your fingers. That's what cutting potatoes with the Shig feels like--smooth & effortless. No strain at all on your wrist and hand. Did I pay too much for it compared to other knives? Sure did (it's a kitaeji with a western handle.) But I'm not sorry. It just makes me happy to use it. Except on onions. Then it makes me happy until it turns orange.


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## rami_m (Oct 21, 2014)

Lucretia said:


> Not a pro, but I love my Shig. I pulled out my 180 gyuto tonight. Not a knife I use all the time, but I was cutting up potatoes, and I haven't found a knife yet that cuts root vegetables like it. Imagine that silky feeling of dissolving cornstarch in water with your fingers. That's what cutting potatoes with the Shig feels like--smooth & effortless. No strain at all on your wrist and hand. Did I pay too much for it compared to other knives? Sure did (it's a kitaeji with a western handle.) But I'm not sorry. It just makes me happy to use it. Except on onions. Then it makes me happy until it turns orange.



Agree with every word of the above!


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## XooMG (Oct 21, 2014)

I have a Shigefusa 180mm kasumi gyuto and it's a very respectable knife overall. It doesn't slip effortlessly through food like some thinner knives do, but it also doesn't stick much. It is generally very competent at everything, though it may not be a superlative performer at any given task.

I've been told that a good way to squeeze a bit more out of my Shigefusa is to thin it, but I've hesitated to do so. I do think it is a little chubby behind the edge (it is fairly new and has not been sharpened much, but I'm informally calling it "Piggyfusa" compared to some of my thin-edged knives), so I think I'll probably get it thinned up 1-2cm from the edge when I get a chance. Would also like to refine its polish a bit.

I am going to be comparing it to several other knives in the 165-190mm range, and my early impressions are that it's one of the best "all-rounders" I have, though I may not be an "all-rounder" type of home cook. For a limited repertoire, sometimes specialized designs work better.


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 21, 2014)

Lucretia said:


> Except on onions. Then it makes me happy until it turns orange.



Personally I feel that this is a rather significant shortcoming of a blade which is going to be used as an all-purpose chef's knife. There is no doubt that Shigefusa knives are outstanding examples of craftsmanship (the western kitaeji particularly so), but if it taints food (it's sole purpose is to cut food, after all) then it becomes more of a toy than a serious tool in my eyes. There are probably as many threads about Shigs focussing on meticulous polishing/refinishing/"clouds" as there are pics of heavily-used Shigs, that's for sure.

I have used a 210 wa- kasumi. Outstanding cutting performance, but objectively no better than e.g. my Yoshikane. Again, too reactive for a gyuto.

The fact that they used to be very hard to get hold of adds to their mystique/perceived status as well imo.

Ymmv.


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## knyfeknerd (Oct 21, 2014)

Just got the email from JNS -2 Kitaeji 240mm wa gyutos available!


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## chefcomesback (Oct 21, 2014)

knyfeknerd said:


> Just got the email from JNS -2 Kitaeji 240mm wa gyutos available!



Check the second e mail 


Sent from my iPhone using Kitchen Knife Forum


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## Seth (Oct 21, 2014)

I am down to 11 shigs which means I am losing the intercontinental battle with Huw. I only like shigs because Lucretia does.

I think the kasumis are fairly priced and make good everyday knives but I also think the kitaeji takes some extra thought and lots of money: once you get up to that $800 to $1,200 range there are a lot of interesting knives to choose from.

Most of the kasumi/kitaeji pairs I have had, 180s, 240s, and 270s do show a thinner behind the edge grind on the kitaeji and more effort on the surface finish (obviously). I think though that a kasumi with some thinning, if you like working on your knives, produces a great knife at a reasonable price. I do have to say though that the reactivity can be annoying and I often pull out a ginsanko of some sort for onions.

I think Nenohi/Nenox is a better illustration of overpricing but you don't see a lot of people interested in these at the moment - for that reason.


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## larrybard (Oct 21, 2014)

Isn't the "western" just a difference in handle? I'm puzzling over Maksim's pricing (though obviously he knows what he's doing and it makes sense to him). If a 180mm kitaeji gyuto is offered for $791 and a 240mm for $946, I would have expected a 210 to fall somewhere in between, e.g., $875. But the 210 western is $1,290. Which makes me think there's something else besides a difference in handles that accounts for the difference in price between actual offering price and what I would have expected.


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## chefcomesback (Oct 21, 2014)

larrybard said:


> Isn't the "western" just a difference in handle? I'm puzzling over Maksim's pricing (though obviously he knows what he's doing and it makes sense to him). If a 180mm kitaeji gyuto is offered for $791 and a 240mm for $946, I would have expected a 210 to fall somewhere in between, e.g., $875. But the 210 western is $1,290. Which makes me think there's something else besides a difference in handles that accounts for the difference in price between actual offering price and what I would have expected.



Larry,
I am sure Maxim can explain further in detail but forging a hidden tang knife versus full tang knife with integral bolsters will require lot less materials and also lot less time , I believe the price difference is indicative of that
Mert


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 21, 2014)

larrybard said:


> Isn't the "western" just a difference in handle? I'm puzzling over Maksim's pricing (though obviously he knows what he's doing and it makes sense to him). If a 180mm kitaeji gyuto is offered for $791 and a 240mm for $946, I would have expected a 210 to fall somewhere in between, e.g., $875. But the 210 western is $1,290. Which makes me think there's something else besides a difference in handles that accounts for the difference in price between actual offering price and what I would have expected.



Larry,

No, it's not just "a difference in handle".

The Westerns have forged integral bolsters, which is more labor intensive, as well as requiring more material for the full tang rather than the "stick" tang of the wa-handled variation.

Rick


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## larrybard (Oct 21, 2014)

Thank you, gentlemen, for contributing to my ongoing education. So much to learn! (Which, for better or worse, hasn't stood in the way so far of plunging in and making an assortment of purchases -- though no Shigefusas so far.) I really appreciate the information.


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## insomniac (Oct 21, 2014)

Shigefusa knives cut well. Don't think anyone will dispute that--in fact some might argue they cut the best. But what you are really paying for is the F&F and subscribing to a certain style. But most likely the actual usage won't enable you to do a whole lot of things you couldn't do before (assuming you're upgrading from something respectable, i.e. not a cutco. or a butter knife.)

but IMHO the same applies to most knives over $300 or so...its not just simply a matter of being a "better" knife.

If you feel happier having bought it and using it I'd consider it money well spent. if not, sounds like the B/S/T forum here is a good contingency.

and I don't think it will take you two years to get one. I'd be a little surprised if you couldn't get one right away unless you are specifically looking for a kitaeji xxx length yyy shape. If you want to order something custom from the Shigefusa workshop though, that is a different ballgame entirely...


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## slash (Oct 21, 2014)

knyfeknerd said:


> Just got the email from JNS -2 Kitaeji 240mm wa gyutos available!



O.K cheers.


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## slash (Oct 21, 2014)

insomniac said:


> Shigefusa knives cut well. Don't think anyone will dispute that--in fact some might argue they cut the best. But what you are really paying for is the F&F and subscribing to a certain style. But most likely the actual usage won't enable you to do a whole lot of things you couldn't do before (assuming you're upgrading from something respectable, i.e. not a cutco. or a butter knife.)
> 
> but IMHO the same applies to most knives over $300 or so...its not just simply a matter of being a "better" knife.
> 
> ...



Noted.


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## slash (Oct 21, 2014)

Seth said:


> I am down to 11 shigs which means I am losing the intercontinental battle with Huw. I only like shigs because Lucretia does.
> 
> I think the kasumis are fairly priced and make good everyday knives but I also think the kitaeji takes some extra thought and lots of money: once you get up to that $800 to $1,200 range there are a lot of interesting knives to choose from.
> 
> ...



11 shigs damn! And how romantic.


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## mhlee (Oct 21, 2014)

While I haven't bought a Shig recently - I've purchased two yanagibas - the wait for certain single bevel knives can be quite long. I got lucky with Maxim that a knife I wanted was coming in, but I still waited almost 6 months for delivery.


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## orange (Oct 22, 2014)

knyfeknerd said:


> Just got the email from JNS -2 Kitaeji 240mm wa gyutos available!



I saw the email too late and it's all gone by the time that I acted.


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## gic (Oct 22, 2014)

Shigs take a forced patina quite well. If you google "forcing a patina on a shigefusa" the first link explains quite well how to do this. After doing that Shigs aren't really reactive at all...

As far as western shigs go, while handles are personal, I have to say I love the handle on my western shig, feels like an extension of my hand. It had to take a lot longer to make this than the tradition wa handle and thus the cost should be higher independent of forging time.


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