# What's your favorite 150mm Petty Knife under $200



## Ceriano (Mar 31, 2021)

I'm looking for a petty/utility knife under $200. Preferably in WA handle but western handle would be fine too. Here are a few options I'm looking at:

Tanaka Ginsan ($120)
Takamura R2 ($130)
Mazaki ($165)
Yoshikane SKD ($190)


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## tcmx3 (Mar 31, 2021)

tf nashiji and put a new handle on it is another option to add to your list IMO. it really is a good deal, unlike most of the rest of them.

on your list Id probably go for a Tanaka if I could get one with a reasonable handle, and Id look for one that's closer to the 35mm side of things, but that's just my preference.

Takamura is reasonable but a bit short for my taste, Mazaki I mean I like the guy's knives but Id rather have a gyuto from him than a petty, just given the way I use a petty it's one knife where I actually want stainless cladding (though Im still not sure Id sign up for stainless core steel, ginsan maybe tho)


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## Ceriano (Mar 31, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> tf nashiji and put a new handle on it is another option to add to your list IMO. it really is a good deal, unlike most of the rest of them.
> 
> on your list Id probably go for a Tanaka if I could get one with a reasonable handle, and Id look for one that's closer to the 35mm side of things, but that's just my preference.
> 
> Takamura is reasonable but a bit short for my taste, Mazaki I mean I like the guy's knives but Id rather have a gyuto from him than a petty, just given the way I use a petty it's one knife where I actually want stainless cladding (though Im still not sure Id sign up for stainless core steel, ginsan maybe tho)


What does tf stand for?


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## tcmx3 (Mar 31, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> What does tf stand for?



Teruyasu Fujiwara 

the petty is about 130 bucks. throw in 30-50 for a new handle and it's still a reasonable price. the heat treat *is* pretty good and if you're sourcing a nice handle for it you have solved half the problems they normally come with automatically lol.


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## xxxclx (Mar 31, 2021)

The petty I use the most are the Kaeru stainless and the Heiji Semi stainless. I have three other petty but these two get the most use. 

Kaeru is the workhorse that handles tasks from fruit cutting to quick portioning to food package opening. Holds edge pretty well and sharpens relatively easily.

Kaeru is not my favorite but gets the most use. Heiji is the nicest one.


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## dafox (Mar 31, 2021)

My favorite, bassed on use, is a Takamura migaki R2 150mm petty. Effortless to use, light but not too light, and the balance is just right. Next most used is a Fujiwara Kanefusa FKM 150mm petty, use this for rougher tasks like fruit with pits in it. Stainless for sure.


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## tostadas (Mar 31, 2021)

Definitely stainless petty. I have a AUS-8 gesshin stainless w western handle, which is not the nicest, but it stands up to acidic fruits, and I also use it for boning meats. I also dont mind leaving it wet for extended periods of time


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## ian (Mar 31, 2021)

Tanaka ginsan is awesome. Great steel, cuts wonderfully. It’s famous here for a reason.


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## Ceriano (Mar 31, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> tf nashiji and put a new handle on it is another option to add to your list IMO. it really is a good deal, unlike most of the rest of them.
> 
> on your list Id probably go for a Tanaka if I could get one with a reasonable handle, and Id look for one that's closer to the 35mm side of things, but that's just my preference.
> 
> Takamura is reasonable but a bit short for my taste, Mazaki I mean I like the guy's knives but Id rather have a gyuto from him than a petty, just given the way I use a petty it's one knife where I actually want stainless cladding (though Im still not sure Id sign up for stainless core steel, ginsan maybe tho)


Does this guy hand forge everything or only the high end stuff? Can't imagine he puts this much effort into a $160 knife. sounds like a better value to me than a laser knife.


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## captaincaed (Mar 31, 2021)

Ryusen r2 135mm with magnetic saya. Going on BST tonight in fact. Holds an edge 4eva even in acidic foods. #shameless-plug


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## False_Cast (Mar 31, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> Does this guy hand forge everything or only the high end stuff? Can't imagine he puts this much effort into a $160 knife. sounds like a better value to me than a laser knife.


Nashiji line is prelaminated (which is underrated because consistency). Heat-treat of the gods. @tcmx3 recommendation is spot on. That, or Heiji.


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## McMan (Mar 31, 2021)

I like TF, Kaeru, and Ginga--in that order.
TF--stainless clad, good value (~$100), gets sharp + stays sharp = 
Kaeru--stainless, good value (~$100), takes a lickin and keeps on tickin
Ginga--stainless, laser, nice performance

Petty's are not tall and not long. So there's not a ton of space for profile or grind to operate. Basically, they come in thin and not-thin  So, get a profile you like--some are pointy (my preference) and some are a little more like mini-gyuto shape (less pointy nose). Get a length you like--135mm, 150mm, or the @daveb officially sanctioned 180mm.

This said... here's a wrench in the works... western-handled stainless petty can be nice too. That Ryusen one above is a good one.


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## Ceriano (Mar 31, 2021)

False_Cast said:


> Nashiji line is prelaminated (which is underrated because consistency). Heat-treat of the gods. @tcmx3 recommendation is spot on. That, or Heiji.


I was referring to Mazaki. $160 for the petty is not bad if he really put this much hand work into it.


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## btbyrd (Mar 31, 2021)

I've been looking at the Takamura petties. I have the 210 red handled R2 gyuto but am eyeing the non-R2 petties. I don't think the edge retention of R2 is as much of a selling point in petties, which will see less board work and less use overall. Anyone had the chance to compare the R2, VG10, and Chromax? I've heard that the grinds are pretty much the same all around, but the initial edge/grind on my R2 gyuto was super fragile. I wonder if the petties are ground and sharpened the same way. I like the hammered texture on the VG10 and Chromax versions, which may help to hide the scratches that seem to plague the soft stainless cladding on my R2 gyuto. Maybe not.


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## Koop (Mar 31, 2021)

I have two petty's from JCK Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan white #1 line - they are actually TF Nashiji. My 135mm is a bit oversize at 142mm actual blade length. The one JCK calls 160mm on their web page measures 156mm in my example, so there's not a lot of difference between the two. I like them - alot!


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## False_Cast (Mar 31, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> I was referring to Mazaki. $160 for the petty is not bad if he really put this much hand work into it.


Understood. I was referring to TF. I did not find consistency with Maz.


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## GorillaGrunt (Apr 1, 2021)

Takamura is good, and Masashi VS1, I have a little Aritsugu that I like for in hand work. Got a Mazaki 180, couple years old, that is a fabulous petty and also one of the best small gyuto but I don’t think it’s much like current Mazakis I’ve been seeing. For a pro there’s a kickass 165mm Blue 2 hiraki OEM knife, mine came from Seisuke as they had the best price at the time but it’s all over the place. Left field choice - tosa forged ikasaki, inexpensive, gets wicked sharp, pretty rugged.


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## Ceriano (Apr 1, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Takamura is good, and Masashi VS1, I have a little Aritsugu that I like for in hand work. Got a Mazaki 180, couple years old, that is a fabulous petty and also one of the best small gyuto but I don’t think it’s much like current Mazakis I’ve been seeing. For a pro there’s a kickass 165mm Blue 2 hiraki OEM knife, mine came from Seisuke as they had the best price at the time but it’s all over the place. Left field choice - tosa forged ikasaki, inexpensive, gets wicked sharp, pretty rugged.


Mazaki 180 sounds tempting too. I have my trusty $7 Victorinox for in hand work.


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## Twotimehojo (Apr 1, 2021)

I have both the Mazaki 180 (current one on CKC with walnut ferrule) and a (JNS) Munetoshi 165 and I am always grabbing the Munetoshi. The extra heel height and the taper on the Munetoshi makes it fun to use. The handles on both are nothing to write home about. Better FnF on the Maz. The Mune handle is interesting--so plain and simple, yet feels good in my hand. The reactivity is manageable on both but I stay away from acidic foods. I bought the Maz first so it took some doing to order the Munetoshi. The Maz may go up on BST to make room for another gyuto.


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## daddy yo yo (Apr 1, 2021)

Have a 180 Mazaki and a Takamura R2. Both are good knives, beyond question. However, I reach for the Mazaki every single time. I am just not a fan of lasers. The Takamura is nothing but a laser and it has the tiniest of all handles.


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## False_Cast (Apr 1, 2021)

In my experience, Mazaki is like a box of chocolates.


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## dafox (Apr 1, 2021)

daddy yo yo said:


> Have a 180 Mazaki and a Takamura R2. Both are good knives, beyond question. However, I reach for the Mazaki every single time. I am just not a fan of lasers. The Takamura is nothing but a laser and it has the tiniest of all handles.


Misono moly handles are even smaller


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## Keat (Apr 1, 2021)

I have a Ryusen r2 150mm, Mune Petty and (had a) 180 Maz.

The 150mm Ryusen is great, the R2 steel and finish seems very top quality but it is thin, so maybe not the best for everyone. My wife uses this knife all the time for basically any kitchen task. I also enjoy it quite a bit for fruit.

Between the Mune and Maz, I ended up keeping to Mune because it was fun to polish and the steel is a little "better" in my opinion. I'm honestly not sure if the steel is harder or softer, just more enjoyable to use and sharpen.

Also incoming is a Heiji carbon 180-190mm petty that should arrive any day. I had it made to the rough dimensions of a 180mm maz petty, but will be curious to see if it ended up that way.


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## damiano (Apr 1, 2021)

@Ceriano It would be helpful to learn how you will be using your petty?

I say this because in my experience there is quite a difference between the various pettys mentioned. To be concrete, I have the 150mm Misono Swedish and the 165mm Munetoshi petty and there is hardly any task where both would do an equally good job. The Mune is a versatile mini gyuto, whereas the Misono is more precise but also less useful as a result. I also have a smaller Robert Herder carbon paring knife which is being used a lot, probably more than even the Mune.


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## Bigbbaillie (Apr 1, 2021)

This would be over budget but these banded A2 from Shihan look super nice. Post says he has some available too.


Do like my Maz though, have a 180mm petty and it is crazy thin at the tip (.6mm 1cm from edge.)


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## DitmasPork (Apr 1, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> I'm looking for a petty/utility knife under $200. Preferably in WA handle but western handle would be fine too. Here are a few options I'm looking at:
> 
> Tanaka Ginsan ($120)
> Takamura R2 ($130)
> ...


Of those choices. Yoshikane skd.


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## labor of love (Apr 1, 2021)

I loved my takamura petty but personally found the handle to be too small for me. Indeed, it had a low angle fragile watanabe-esqe edge ootb that I adjusted overtime.


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## Ceriano (Apr 1, 2021)

Wahnamhong said:


> @Ceriano It would be helpful to learn how you will be using your petty?
> 
> I say this because in my experience there is quite a difference between the various pettys mentioned. To be concrete, I have the 150mm Misono Swedish and the 165mm Munetoshi petty and there is hardly any task where both would do an equally good job. The Mune is a versatile mini gyuto, whereas the Misono is more precise but also less useful as a result. I also have a smaller Robert Herder carbon paring knife which is being used a lot, probably more than even the Mune.


Great question. So this will be for smaller tasks that I’d not want to get the larger gyuto dirty. moslty chopping on boards, onions, carving cooked protein etc. Any task that my 3.5” victorinox can’t handle.


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## timebard (Apr 1, 2021)

Bigbbaillie said:


> This would be over budget but these banded A2 from Shihan look super nice. Post says he has some available too.
> 
> 
> Do like my Maz though, have a 180mm petty and it is crazy thin at the tip (.6mm 1cm from edge.)




Those Shihans look super cool, I've never seen that kind of banding in semi-stainless steels. Have I just been living under a rock or is Shihan doing something new/unusual here?


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## GorillaGrunt (Apr 1, 2021)

Maz petty. I like this one because it lends itself equally to petty stuff and gyuto stuff. The Munetoshi if anything is an even better compact gyuto but for me not as much of a petty.


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## DitmasPork (Apr 1, 2021)

Maz all the way.


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## GorillaGrunt (Apr 1, 2021)

What’s the spine of that petty look like? I love the look of the new Maz but can’t imagine anything working better than the petty I’ve got. The suji is pretty wicked though


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## labor of love (Apr 1, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> What’s the spine of that petty look like? I love the look of the new Maz but can’t imagine anything working better than the petty I’ve got. The suji is pretty wicked though


I think yours looks perfect. Just did a double take.


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## DitmasPork (Apr 1, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> What’s the spine of that petty look like? I love the look of the new Maz but can’t imagine anything working better than the petty I’ve got. The suji is pretty wicked though



You referring to the thickness of the Maz petty spine? I'll have to check when home. I had two Maz pettys. the other was a kasumi from JNS, got rid of it and kept the KU.


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## Bigbbaillie (Apr 1, 2021)

timebard said:


> Those Shihans look super cool, I've never seen that kind of banding in semi-stainless steels. Have I just been living under a rock or is Shihan doing something new/unusual here?


It's called carbide banding, don't understand the process well though so that's about all I got for you. Pretty sure Valgard has a post on his IG of an Ashi honyaki gyutohiki that shows similar carbide patterning so it's not like groundbreaking or anything. Definitely unique though.


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## ian (Apr 1, 2021)

Bigbbaillie said:


> It's called carbide banding, don't understand the process well though so that's about all I got for you. Pretty sure Valgard has a post on his IG of an Ashi honyaki gyutohiki that shows similar carbide patterning so it's not like groundbreaking or anything. Definitely unique though.



I think @timebard was making a point about it being semistainless. A lot of Ashi honyakis seem to have banding, it seems, but they’re not semistainless. I personally don’t know why it would be more surprising in a semistainless knife, but I don’t know anything.



labor of love said:


> Who are you referring to?



Seems like he’s slighting Shehan and Ashi for not knowing that carbide banding is a “bad thing”. I don’t know anything about it. Seems like it’s something that’s maybe theoretically bad, but doesn’t make a huge practical difference. There are a bunch of threads on it I guess. Although some of them seem to talk about alloy banding, which I guess is different than carbide banding. I have no idea how to recognize the difference visually tho.






Knife alloy Banding / Steel Segregation


Heard a lot lately.... on alloy banding? Steel segregation? Need a non google crash course from those in the know! Care to weigh in with explanations and thoughts on this? Examples, pictures, etc. Please if you can! Thanks.... :biggrin:




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## labor of love (Apr 1, 2021)

How is it bad?


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## ian (Apr 1, 2021)

Some people seem to think it can make the steel less tough and make it behave less consistently or predictably. Like, if a there’s more carbon collecting in some band, maybe there’s less elsewhere, so the steel there won’t be as good. Idk anything tho, I’m just relaying the parts of what people say that seem believable to me.


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## tcmx3 (Apr 1, 2021)

Mutsumi Hinoura 150mm for 155 on Carbon. Shame about the ho-wood handle, but easily remedied I think. very tall at 40mm; I may pick one up myself

I really love the grinds on Hinoura, super easy to maintain and look amazing when polished.


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## Bigbbaillie (Apr 1, 2021)

According to an IG post by Shihan, there is literature showing that banding sites also are likely failure points on rotating beam tests, a situation where the steel is under pretty great stress. That doesn't really matter much for kitchen knives though.
I'm sure this Ashi would go for a hefty sum...


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## labor of love (Apr 1, 2021)

ian said:


> Some people seem to think it can make the steel less tough and make it behave less consistently or predictably. Like, if a there’s more carbon collecting in some band, maybe there’s less elsewhere, so the steel there won’t be as good. Idk anything tho, I’m just relaying the parts of what people say that seem believable to me.


Which people?


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## ian (Apr 1, 2021)

labor of love said:


> Which people?



I think the Bloodroot guy says something like that in the thread I linked, for instance. See this post.






Knife alloy Banding / Steel Segregation


Heard a lot lately.... on alloy banding? Steel segregation? Need a non google crash course from those in the know! Care to weigh in with explanations and thoughts on this? Examples, pictures, etc. Please if you can! Thanks.... :biggrin:




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## Bigbbaillie (Apr 1, 2021)

labor of love said:


> Which people?


Did you read the post Ian linked?

Edit: Ian is faster than me. How about them 150mm petties though haha.


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## ian (Apr 1, 2021)

Bigbbaillie said:


> According to an IG post by Shihan



Got a link? Couldn’t find it. Curious what else he says.


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## labor of love (Apr 1, 2021)

ian said:


> I think the Bloodroot guy says something like that in the thread I linked, for instance. See this post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I did. He said “some people”.I wanted to know who. Wasnt talking to you.

edit: why do we care what bloodroot thinks? Is that the best source available?


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## Bigbbaillie (Apr 1, 2021)

ian said:


> Got a link? Couldn’t find it. Curious what else he says.


It's a ways back, he mentions it at the last comment and doesn't say a ton. Also some more examples of smiths against the idea of banding in this post.


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## Bigbbaillie (Apr 1, 2021)

labor of love said:


> Yes I did. He said “some people”.I wanted to know who. Wasnt talking to you.
> 
> edit: why do we care what bloodroot thinks? Is that the best source available?


I mean if you want to be sciencey about it, then read some peer-reviewed material science literature about it and form your own opinions I guess. Although as I said, there is evidence showing that banding sites act as premature points of failure in high intensity stress tests. Here's some of the literature about it.


https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-651X/25/1/015007




https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225452447_A_Review_of_Microsegregation_Induced_Banding_Phenomena_in_Steels


The Detrimental Effect of Carbide Segregation - NSK Americashttps://www.nskamericas.com › americas_corporate

Let's be done with this tangent.


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## labor of love (Apr 1, 2021)

Are you upset that I asked Ian for sources? Seems like a reasonable thing to request instead of settling for “some people say” over and over again


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## refcast (Apr 1, 2021)

There was a forum by kevin cashen called hypefreeblades where this stuff was discussed. Cliffstamps has a forum, too.

As for an authority. . . I guess kevin cashen or Verhoven? Those are the names I've read most associated with this


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## cotedupy (Apr 2, 2021)

I have a Maz 150mm and it's an excellent knife. Except it's *very* reactive, annoyingly so sometimes. It looks like this for about 15 seconds:






Though it does mean you can play around with some cool patina. This is after cutting up a chicken:


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## DavidPF (Apr 3, 2021)

Funny how that "tangent" ended but apparently never began, and quotes people who apparently don't exist. Vandalism is rampant these days, I guess. </sarcasm>


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## Benuser (Apr 3, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> Great question. So this will be for smaller tasks that I’d not want to get the larger gyuto dirty. moslty chopping on boards, onions, carving cooked protein etc. Any task that my 3.5” victorinox can’t handle.


Carbon or stainless?


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## juice (Apr 3, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> What does tf stand for?


Project knife


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## Ceriano (Apr 3, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> I have a Maz 150mm and it's an excellent knife. Except it's *very* reactive, annoyingly so sometimes. It looks like this for about 15 seconds:
> 
> View attachment 120966
> 
> ...


That's a good looking patina. I ordered the KU finish from Carbon. 









Mazaki White#2 Kuro Nashiji Petty 150mm


Naoki Mazaki is a blacksmith located in Sanjo, Niigata. He works alone in his small workshop and handles all aspects of his knife making. He focuses primarily on forging Shirogami (White) #2 carbon steel cladded in iron. The nashiji kurouchi displays all of the character and detail that happens...




carbonknifeco.com


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## Ceriano (Apr 3, 2021)

Benuser said:


> Carbon or stainless?


I went with the 150mm Maz. I probably add a shorter stainless to the collection later on. Something in 75-135mm range.


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## Ceriano (Apr 3, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Maz all the way.
> View attachment 120929


Beautiful knives. I'm glad I went with Maz.


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## DitmasPork (Apr 3, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> Beautiful knives. I'm glad I went with Maz.



Maz is a solid choice indeed! Now wait 'til you get infected by the collecting bug, and start chasing a Raquin, Yanick, Wat, Kato, Shig, Shihan, Jiro, Takada, etc. You'll soon figure out what steels rock your boat, what sizes and profiles fit your way of cutting.

Before you know it, you'll have a TF tattoo.


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## Ceriano (Apr 3, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Maz is a solid choice indeed! Now wait 'til you get infected by the collecting bug, and start chasing a Raquin, Yanick, Wat, Kato, Shig, Shihan, Jiro, Takada, etc. You'll soon figure out what steels rock your boat, what sizes and profiles fit your way of cutting.
> 
> Before you know it, you'll have a TF tattoo.
> 
> View attachment 121149


Isn't Kato supposed to be very expensive? The ones I see on CKC are in $200-$300 range. 









Kato Yoshimi


Welcome to Carbon Knife Co! We are a chef driven kitchenware store specializing in Japanese kitchen knives, cooking tools, sharpening supplies, and more.




carbonknifeco.com


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## DitmasPork (Apr 3, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> Isn't Kato supposed to be very expensive? The ones I see on CKC are in $200-$300 range.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Different Kato. Here's the higher priced maker. Kiyoshi Kato.





SOLD - Kato Standard, Kato Ku, Kato WH Ktip - all 240mm


Round 4 of knife sales. First off, Kato Standard 240mm, I was told this was a blue steel. Handle is desert ironwood burl and buffalo horn ferrule with a corian spacer, i will include the original handle. I am not the first owner but i personally have not tried it yet. Asking $1200 $1150...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## Ceriano (Apr 3, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Different Kato. Here's the higher priced maker. Kiyoshi Kato.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope this forum doesn’t turn into an expensive hobby!


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## juice (Apr 3, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> I hope this forum doesn’t turn into an expensive hobby!


Only if you let it. I've been here a year with no dramas.


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## DitmasPork (Apr 3, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> I hope this forum doesn’t turn into an expensive hobby!



Only if you want it to. You can get a perfectly good chef's knife in the $50–$150 range. High priced, handmade knives don't make one a better cook.

That said, using and owning very good kitchen knives brings me joy.


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## Delat (Apr 3, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Only if you want it to. You can get a perfectly good chef's knife in the $50–$150 range. High priced, handmade knives don't make one a better cook.
> 
> That said, using and owning very good kitchen knives brings me joy.



It really does turn cooking from a chore into an entertaining and amusing game. 

A year ago I’d just mindlessly chop. These days I get excited to see the results of my last sharpening session to see if I improved, and I’m sitting there listening for “craaack” on carrots, “snick” on potatoes, and bitching in my head that the tip still isn’t just falling through onions and telling myself that it’s not my sharpening skills but my lack of owning a laser.


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## GorillaGrunt (Apr 3, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Maz is a solid choice indeed! Now wait 'til you get infected by the collecting bug, and start chasing a Raquin, Yanick, Wat, Kato, Shig, Shihan, Jiro, Takada, etc. You'll soon figure out what steels rock your boat, what sizes and profiles fit your way of cutting.
> 
> Before you know it, you'll have a TF tattoo.
> 
> View attachment 121149


I oughta get that tattoo with the Tou cou kanji next to it


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## DitmasPork (Apr 3, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> I oughta get that tattoo with the Tou cou kanji next to it


I’m surprised not to see TF tattoos on cooks, done traditional wabisabi style with ink-dipped sharpened bamboo sticks. Most knife tattoos seem to be Shun, Global and Henckle. An F. Dick tattoo could work for some.


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## BillHanna (Apr 3, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> An F. Dick tattoo could work for some.


 @Carl Kotte


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## juice (Apr 3, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Most knife tattoos seem to be Shun, Global and Henckle.


Sure...


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## Ceriano (Apr 4, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Maz all the way.
> View attachment 120929


How reactive are they? Should I avoid highly acidic food until they develop patina?


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## tcmx3 (Apr 4, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> How reactive are they? Should I avoid highly acidic food until they develop patina?



not enough to worry about. just use the knife like you would any other iron clad knife.

the stock mazaki finish has a reputation for developing a rather ugly patina which definitely can happen but once you get them polished theyre fine. not like bead blasted knives typically look good with patinas anyway.


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## jacko9 (Apr 4, 2021)

T-F Nashiji 150mm petty that I bought with an Ebony handle a few years ago. Second from bottom. I bought it around the same time I got the 240mm Nashiji Gyuto (second from top) with ebony handle. I bought both knives directly from T-F and they were a whole lot cheaper than they are now.


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## DitmasPork (Apr 4, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> How reactive are they? Should I avoid highly acidic food until they develop patina?


Just go for it with everything—fresh killed pig meat, goat, cabbage, lemons, onions, etc.; wipe down knife; reactivity will help you understand the nature of your carbon steel. If you want it to stay pretty, get a stainless knife. Don’t cut frozen stuff or go through bones; don’t torque and twist going through dense root veg. No worries if you tip it in the sink—it’s just a tool. My Mazs are fairly reactive.


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## zizirex (Apr 4, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> How reactive are they? Should I avoid highly acidic food until they develop patina?


Mazaki is a rust magnet. stupidly reactive but it's a good cutter.


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## tostadas (Apr 6, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> How reactive are they? Should I avoid highly acidic food until they develop patina?


I like to force a patina on my knives but cutting raw chicken and rubbing one of the scrap pieces all over the blade. Then rinse with hot water when you're done. Repeat with rubbing chicken on it if you missed any spots after you're done cutting, and again rinse in hot water. I found that the reactivity calmed down significantly after initial patina has formed.

Worst case though, if you end up with "ugly" colored patina, you can always clean it off with baking soda or bar keepers friend and start over.

Here's a pic of my old mazaki. It was a great knife. Excellent cutter with good food release. Will probably buy another one back again in the future.


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## Ceriano (Apr 6, 2021)

tostadas said:


> I like to force a patina on my knives but cutting raw chicken and rubbing one of the scrap pieces all over the blade. Then rinse with hot water when you're done. Repeat with rubbing chicken on it if you missed any spots after you're done cutting, and again rinse in hot water. I found that the reactivity calmed down significantly after initial patina has formed.
> 
> Worst case though, if you end up with "ugly" colored patina, you can always clean it off with baking soda or bar keepers friend and start over.
> 
> Here's a pic of my old mazaki. It was a great knife. Excellent cutter with good food release. Will probably buy another one back again in the future.


I'm a neatfreak if I use chicken I probably have to bleach the knife! I use an old beat up boning knife for raw chicken and pork. It goes straight to the dish washer right afterwards.


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## GorillaGrunt (Apr 6, 2021)

Slicing a hot thick steak works pretty well too


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## Ceriano (Apr 9, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Just go for it with everything—fresh killed pig meat, goat, cabbage, lemons, onions, etc.; wipe down knife; reactivity will help you understand the nature of your carbon steel. If you want it to stay pretty, get a stainless knife. Don’t cut frozen stuff or go through bones; don’t torque and twist going through dense root veg. No worries if you tip it in the sink—it’s just a tool. My Mazs are fairly reactive.


They were delivered today. The handles don’t match. Is 240 old stock?


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## tostadas (Apr 9, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> They were delivered today. The handles don’t match. Is 240 old stock?


I believe so. The new batch at CKC has the brown wood handles instead of horn.


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## Ceriano (Apr 9, 2021)

tostadas said:


> I believe so. The new batch at CKC has the brown wood handles instead of horn.


yea I kinda wanted matching handles.


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## tostadas (Apr 9, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> yea I kinda wanted matching handles.


Have you tried reaching out to them directly? They may be accomodating


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## Ceriano (Apr 9, 2021)

tostadas said:


> Have you tried reaching out to them directly? They may be accomodating


I did contact Craig let’s see what he says. Kinda disappointed after 1 week wait and $450. Not quite what I expected. Probably not the best idea to order the last one in stock.


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## Ceriano (Apr 9, 2021)

tostadas said:


> Have you tried reaching out to them directly? They may be accomodating


He said it’s the same batch of Mazaki but some handles he put horn ferrule on.


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## DitmasPork (Apr 9, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> He said it’s the same batch of Mazaki but some handles he put horn ferrule on.


IMO, they look fine, I prefer horn. The mis-matched handles don't bother me.
How do you like the blades, feel of the knife?


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## Ceriano (Apr 9, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> IMO, they look fine, I prefer horn. The mis-matched handles don't bother me.
> How do you like the blades, feel of the knife?


I prefer horn too, this gives me an excuse to order custom handles. Not good!
I love the blades, I’m surprised how thin they are behind the edge. Scary sharp


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## Ceriano (Apr 9, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> IMO, they look fine, I prefer horn. The mis-matched handles don't bother me.
> How do you like the blades, feel of the knife?


The magnets on my knife block are super strong. Can they chip the knife? How fragile are they?


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## DitmasPork (Apr 10, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> I prefer horn too, this gives me an excuse to order custom handles. Not good!
> I love the blades, I’m surprised how thin they are behind the edge. Scary sharp



If you can afford it. There're lots of talented handle makers about; or JKI has very nice burnt chestnut handles. 

However, personally I'd not bother re-handling the knives unless there's a reason other than aesthetic considerations. The 3 knives I commissioned custom handles were because the knives needed a new handle—stock handle was too big; a righty d-handle had to go (I'm lefty); or bad unfixable install issue, like really crooked and over rotated.

If you like the knives, use them—if you don't then sell them on. Be aware that getting a custom handle might make the Mazs harder to sell on; can change the balance point; a poorly chosen handle can devalue a knife if selling it. A stock J-handle can run you $30–$140; a custom might start at $150. 

You knives look fine. What's more important to you—having functional kitchen tools or kitchen show pieces? Either answer is valid, depending on what's important to you.


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## tcmx3 (Apr 10, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> If you can afford it. There're lots of talented handle makers about; or JKI has very nice burnt chestnut handles.
> 
> However, personally I'd not bother re-handling the knives unless there's a reason other than aesthetic considerations. The 3 knives I commissioned custom handles were because the knives needed a new handle—stock handle was too big; a righty d-handle had to go (I'm lefty); or bad unfixable install issue, like really crooked and over rotated.
> 
> ...



this is just my experience but ho wood handles need to be replaced sooner or later as they get to a point where they just look squalid and gross. 

on my most recent ho-wood acquisition I just had the knife shipped off to be rehandled immediately, as for 50 bucks or so you can get an octagonal burnt chestnut which IMO checks every box; shock resistant, stays grippy when wet, doesnt look hideous.


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## DitmasPork (Apr 10, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> this is just my experience but ho wood handles need to be replaced sooner or later as they get to a point where they just look squalid and gross.
> 
> on my most recent ho-wood acquisition I just had the knife shipped off to be rehandled immediately, as for 50 bucks or so you can get an octagonal burnt chestnut which IMO checks every box; shock resistant, stays grippy when wet, doesnt look hideous.



The vast majority of my J-knives have their original handles. I do love the functional simplicity of a very well made ho wood handle—despise plastic ferrules.

It's my understanding, that Japanese makers and knife users generally have a different attitude regarding handles, viewing them as more a utilitarian component of a knife. Knives I have by great Japanese makers, came with very average to mediocre handles—which I've not changes, they're fine, the blade is why I buy a knife.

IMO, the best handles are from western makers, more thought into proportion, shape, alignment, etc. One of my fave handles are Raquin's burnt oak; another is Birgersson's handles. Although, the koa and reindeer handle Graydon Decollibus made for me is artful and absolutely gorgeous.

Feel of a handle, size and balance point is the most important element of a handle—don't care for fancy ironwood or ebony, looks aren't my main consideration.

The only one that really sees my knives are me. I don't keep knives out in the kitchen unless I'm cooking—I don't have a knife block or rack—and it's typically just 2–3 knives out on the counter on any given day.

I don't believe in spending more than a 1/3 the value of a knife, on a new handle.


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## Ceriano (Apr 10, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> If you can afford it. There're lots of talented handle makers about; or JKI has very nice burnt chestnut handles.
> 
> However, personally I'd not bother re-handling the knives unless there's a reason other than aesthetic considerations. The 3 knives I commissioned custom handles were because the knives needed a new handle—stock handle was too big; a righty d-handle had to go (I'm lefty); or bad unfixable install issue, like really crooked and over rotated.
> 
> ...


That’s a very good point. I probably wait a while before changing the handles, making sure I like the knives. I really like the look of fancy burl handles. They probably cost more than the knife itself!


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## DitmasPork (Apr 10, 2021)

I do love really nice woods. But for me, kitchen knives are tools.

I love my hos.

Found this pic of a hammer with ironwood handle.


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## Ceriano (Apr 11, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Slicing a hot thick steak works pretty well too


Tried them on roast beef today. Got a light blue patina. I’ll try tofu tomorrow.


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## RevJoe (Apr 16, 2021)

False_Cast said:


> Nashiji line is prelaminated (which is underrated because consistency). Heat-treat of the gods. @tcmx3 recommendation is spot on. That, or Heiji.


Is the recommendation spot on because of the price range? Would TF and a new handle be the way to go if the buyer is willing to spend more?


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## RevJoe (Apr 16, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> How reactive are they? Should I avoid highly acidic food until they develop patina?


Mine is pretty reactive but not to the degree in that pic. I love the color it has taken.


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## tostadas (Apr 16, 2021)

RevJoe said:


> Is the recommendation spot on because of the price range? Would TF and a new handle be the way to go if the buyer is willing to spend more?



For TF, yo handle is the way to go.


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## RevJoe (Apr 16, 2021)

zizirex said:


> Mazaki is a rust magnet. stupidly reactive but it's a good cutter.


I have only had mine for 4 months but I have not noticed any rust. I pretty good about cleaning them right after I am done with them, even got the wife doing that now, which surprised me.


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