# KASFLY (CZAR) Ultimate Sandpaper holder



## pkjames (Aug 16, 2017)

Hi Guys,

As you have probably read about the CZAR sandpaper holder from this thread, as as the sole distributor of CZAR products overseas, I have say sorry to everyone that I am a bit late to upload the item to the site. 
Basically, this is a sandpaper holder that is built like a tank and does its job brilliantly. Mated with some good quality sandpaper, you can basically use it as a super cheap diamond plate: aggressive and flat!

I am also doing a introductory offer of $20 off (please check out with coupon code: *KASFLY20*) which expires by the end of the August.

Note: please order the item separately if you are outside of AUSTRALIA as it will be shipped from China instead of K&S warehouse.


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## S-Line (Aug 16, 2017)

Fantastic news James! Just purchased one, what type of sandpaper would you recommend for thinning and reprofiling knives?


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## pkjames (Aug 16, 2017)

I use Norton 3x sandpaper bought from Lee Valley Tools. There was once a super sale that I bought so much. Will probably last me the rest of my life, but hey our knives will probably last us 5 generations:O
I am sure there are better places to buy in the States.


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## Nemo (Aug 16, 2017)

This is very intersting James.

Can you use it for sharpening the edge or is there a risk of cutting the paper? Or do you need do edge trailing only?

Did I read somewhere that there is a removable foam backing that allows easier convexing?

In your experience, how does sandpaper compare with coarse JIS stones for cutting speed (what I mean is does 240 grit sandpaper cut about as quickly as a 240 grit stone)?


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## pkjames (Aug 16, 2017)

I have never tried to shapren on a 220 grit stone but on a 150grit sandpaper is indeed very agressive, faster than any non-diamond plate i have tried. 
The only problem is, you may need to replace sandpaper often if you were thinning. 

In regarding the sharpening part, if you don't dig into the stone (which you really shouldn't), then you won't cut the sand paper.

J.


Nemo said:


> This is very intersting James.
> 
> Can you use it for sharpening the edge or is there a risk of cutting the paper? Or do you need do edge trailing only?
> 
> ...


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## TheCaptain (Aug 16, 2017)

James,

I just added one to my cart and the shipping is coming up at zero (nothing else in the cart). I didn't place the order because I didn't want to take advantage of you but you may want to take a look at that.


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## cheflivengood (Aug 16, 2017)

This is well known as a knife maker favorite sand paper, and I use it with this holder


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## pkjames (Aug 16, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> James,
> 
> I just added one to my cart and the shipping is coming up at zero (nothing else in the cart). I didn't place the order because I didn't want to take advantage of you but you may want to take a look at that.


If the total pre-coupon is showing 169AUD (133USD) then it is correct. I added the extra shipping in the options.

Cheers


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## TheCaptain (Aug 16, 2017)

Got it, and got it!


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## pkjames (Aug 16, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> Got it, and got it!



and you forgot to apply the coupon :lol:
I will do the refund tomorrow.

J.


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## TheCaptain (Aug 16, 2017)

pkjames said:


> and you forgot to apply the coupon :lol:
> I will do the refund tomorrow.
> 
> J.



Doh! :bashhead: Thanks!


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 16, 2017)

pkjames said:


> and you forgot to apply the coupon :lol:
> I will do the refund tomorrow.
> 
> J.



I forgot the coupon, too. :O

Can you help me also? Order 2823.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 16, 2017)

Got mine thanks James


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## frog13 (Aug 16, 2017)

Count me in as another one who got so excited he forgot the coupon, order #2825. Can you:biggrin: help?


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## hambone.johnson (Aug 16, 2017)

So excited I caught this. I've wanted one of these forever !! Even remembered my code !!


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## Nemo (Aug 16, 2017)

James, what's the dimensions of the table (I mean the flat bit that you put the sandpaper on)?


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## pkjames (Aug 16, 2017)

Nemo said:


> James, what's the dimensions of the table (I mean the flat bit that you put the sandpaper on)?



215*60mm. I have updated the store listing as well.


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## TheVincenzo (Aug 16, 2017)

Got mine ordered, I have been wanting one of these since the first time the picture popped up in the sharpening section. I'm definitely looking forward to it.


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## tsuriru (Aug 17, 2017)

Hello there, I tried "rest of the world" shows item out of stock. Is this item in stock? If so how much to ship it to Israel?


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## pkjames (Aug 21, 2017)

update: all orders were shipped last week and I have updated the shipping info in the store system. Sorry for the delay, it was due to I have to orgainse shipment to a forwarding company (waybill 1), which then ships to a local SF-EXPRESS / DHL / FEDEX (waybill2) and put on a final waybill to individual customer (waybill 3a, 3b...)

I didn't want to update the system until they are on the way to the final destinations.

Rdgs,
James


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## frog13 (Aug 22, 2017)

pkjames said:


> update: all orders were shipped last week and I have updated the shipping info in the store system. Sorry for the delay, it was due to I have to orgainse shipment to a forwarding company (waybill 1), which then ships to a local SF-EXPRESS / DHL / FEDEX (waybill2) and put on a final waybill to individual customer (waybill 3a, 3b...)
> 
> I didn't want to update the system until they are on the way to the final destinations.
> 
> ...



James,
Thanks for the update. We do appreciate the communication, sometimes folks waiting for things need to take a step back and consider what is going on at the other end, where it's coming from, etc. We aren't all Amazon with a huge shipping network. :biggrin:

I had an experience with a sale on another site, I made the sale on Sunday afternoon and received the Paypal payment. I got an e-mail Monday morning while I was at work saying if I didn't send tracking info they would cancel payment. Another e-mail ten minutes later from Paypal telling me the buyer had opened a dispute. I got it all straightened out but you have to give someone more than two hours on the first business day after the transaction to get it complete.

So, I have no problem with showing a little patience and good communication helps that. All my experiences with you along with others on this forum have all been very pleasant.

Thanks again!


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## tsuriru (Aug 28, 2017)

Just got mine. I cannot speak highly enough about the fit and finish of this product, and perhaps more importantly, about the super friendly and efficient service. Thank you so much James. lus1:


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## pkjames (Aug 29, 2017)

Just a heads up guys, the promotion ends in less than 2 days


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 30, 2017)

Ok Just got mine. thanks James. Freaking sweet. Build is like a Rolex. A long time ago, I bought some 3M Wet/Dry polishing paper. Its AO or SI on a flexible woven backing. I never really got much use out of them, but now with this holder its a whole new game. I went from the 30 microns to 9 micron to 1 micron. What an amazing kitchen edge it left on everything every steel I had by just a new edge trailing strokes. Bing, Hello Mamma, Come to Papa!

thanks James!!!!


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## foody518 (Aug 31, 2017)

Dangit! woke up too late to get the discount code put in XD


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## TheCaptain (Aug 31, 2017)

Mine just arrived at my office (grrrr!) Can't try it out but the construction appears to be top notch!


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 31, 2017)

I'm having a lot of fun with these papers. http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/276104O/3mtm-wetordrytm-polishing-paper-281q-286q-481q-486q.pdf


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## frog13 (Aug 31, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> I'm having a lot of fun with these papers. http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/276104O/3mtm-wetordrytm-polishing-paper-281q-286q-481q-486q.pdf



I got these, but you're right, having a lot of fun .... and wearing a couple butterfly sutures, duh, wasn't paying attention. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074DK653S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 31, 2017)

I ordered these today:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=74729&cat=1,44047

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=33004&cat=1,43072

This tool has limitless applications for polishing and sharpening. You can now literally turn any backing lined abrasive into a sharpening/polishing stone. Normally I finish my knives on natural stones. I will still continue to do this, but when that fresh edge gets dull, a couple strops of "choose your paper" and there you have it. HA

The device itself is built like Brick S#ithouse, very thoughtful in simplicity and aesthetic. The feel of the gun metal finish reminds me of a Sebenza. In fact, the whole tool is made to that or near that spec. The way it hold the paper is absolute genius as the more the paper is pulled, the strong the grip. You can stretch the paper as tight as a drum with just a few turns and paper swaps out easily too. I've been stacking several grits on top of one another then starting with most course, just unclip each grit till satisfied. It held four 3M wetordry polishing papers. Can you tell I like this tool?


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## pkjames (Sep 1, 2017)

Thanks Dennis! Yeah, the tool is built with a purpose and excuted perfectly. I am feeling kinda lucky that we have someone like CZAR who not only has the skill / resource and more importantly the passion of knives to be able to pull this off.


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## Nemo (Sep 1, 2017)

Does anyone know where to get AlOx sheets and fine (>3000) sheets in Australia?


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## Nemo (Sep 1, 2017)

It is a very cleverly desinged and robustly built piece of kit. I like the way it holds and tensions the sandpaper- very clever.


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## Marek07 (Sep 2, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Does anyone know where to get AlOx sheets and fine (>3000) sheets in Australia?


Try: https://www.thesandpaperman.com.au - they have up to 12k. Also, your friendly neighbourhood panel beater can usually provide at least 3k.


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## Nemo (Sep 2, 2017)

Thanks Marek. Yeah, I can get 2500 or occasionally 3000 SiC at the local Autobarn. Good enough to set up for a mirror polish with some metal polish or high grit diamond paste.

At the sandpaperman, are you talking about the micromesh for the higher grits or did I miss another line of sandpaper?

Also, I couldn't see any AlOx sandpaper there apart from the (relitavely expensive) micromesh or the (also expensive) adhesive backed lapping film. Once again, not sure if I missed any.

It's not really a biggie, either way. I was mainly thinking of using it as a non dishing low grit stone for thinning, especially for fixing abused Western knives) and I'm sure that 240 (or even lower) grit SiC will do this cheaply and admirably.


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## malexthekid (Sep 2, 2017)

I really don't need this so I wish you lot would stop talking it up. 

I'm still trying to track down SiC powder... can you at least let me finish one sharpening/thinning dream before having me chase another


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## Marek07 (Sep 2, 2017)

Nemo said:


> At the sandpaperman, are you talking about the micromesh for the higher grits or did I miss another line of sandpaper?
> 
> Also, I couldn't see any AlOx sandpaper there apart from the (relitavely expensive) micromesh or the (also expensive) adhesive backed lapping film.


Sorry - it was a rushed response. Anything above 3k is indeed micromesh. Missed your AlOx request totally.


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## Marek07 (Sep 4, 2017)

Finally got around to using my new holder today... 

Only tried a couple of small tasks but this device is *awesome!* 
:doublethumbsup:
As others have said, beautifully engineered, great fit and finish and can perform sanding tasks like nothing else I've tried. Plan to be using it for a number of knife tasks including touch-up stropping mentioned in this thread, possibly using thin 'roo leather in place of sandpaper.

And of course, James is just delightful to deal with. Very fast shipping even though it was from China!


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 4, 2017)

Marek, I've been messing around with it quite a bit. One significant advantage with this paper holder is that you can get the surface extremely flat and extremely tight. Silicone that's provided his only left me with someone rolled edges


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## hambone.johnson (Sep 4, 2017)

agreed with everyone. i originally thought it would only be good for base thinning but with the right paper progression it basically took me into the 3K stone progression just using sandpaper and then i switched over to the stones for just some very light finishing work. i want to get some of the very high grit stuff and see how a paper only edge would fare on edge retention. This is a fantastic product !!!


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## Marek07 (Sep 5, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Marek, I've been messing around with it quite a bit. One significant advantage with this paper holder is that you can get the surface extremely flat and extremely tight. Silicone that's provided his only left me with someone rolled edges


Are you saying that you use the holder without the supplied silicone? Does using the silicone make the sandpaper too soft and hence rolls (or rounds) the edge? Would appreciate your thoughts.


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## Nemo (Sep 5, 2017)

Marek07 said:


> Are you saying that you use the holder without the supplied silicone? Does using the silicone make the sandpaper too soft and hence rolls (or rounds) the edge? Would appreciate your thoughts.


My understanding is that the silicone is to allow some "give" in the sharpening surface, a bit like the mousepad trick for convexed edges. I assume that without the silicone, it would give a more linear edge.

I haven't done the mousepad trick but I have read that it takes a bit of practice to get the convexing just right. The amount of convexing depends on the "give" in the medium and the force that you use to push the blade.

The problem that I can forsee with this is that as you progress in your sharpening, you tend to press with less force as you refine your edge. This will cause a shallower convex, so you might not actually reach the edge as you try to refine the edge. I wonder whether the mousepad trick might be better used to convex behind the edge but sharpening the very edge with a microbevel?


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## cheflivengood (Sep 5, 2017)

Nemo said:


> My understanding is that the silicone is to allow some "give" in the sharpening surface, a bit like the mousepad trick for convexed edges. I assume that without the silicone, it would give a more linear edge.
> 
> I haven't done the mousepad trick but I have read that it takes a bit of practice to get the convexing just right. The amount of convexing depends on the "give" in the medium and the force that you use to push the blade.
> 
> The problem that I can forsee with this is that as you progress in your sharpening, you tend to press with less force as you refine your edge. This will cause a shallower convex, so you might not actually reach the edge as you try to refine the edge. I wonder whether the mousepad trick might be better used to convex behind the edge but sharpening the very edge with a microbevel?



I used the silicone for the first time this weekend, Id say the immediate feedback for me was the difference between a soft muddy stone and a hard stone, the finish was a little more even as it contoured to the bevel better.


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## Nemo (Sep 5, 2017)

cheflivengood said:


> I used the silicone for the first time this weekend, Id say the immediate feedback for me was the difference between a soft muddy stone and a hard stone, the finish was a little more even as it contoured to the bevel better.


Thanks for that feedback.

I'll give it a try this weekend.


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## Marek07 (Sep 5, 2017)

@cheflivengood and @Nemo - thank you both for your comments. Looks like I have a lot more experimenting to do with this versatile sandpaper holder. Definitely ooking forward to experimenting further.


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## frog13 (Sep 10, 2017)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BY4XVWHgm3O/
Well, my box came broken and James graciously took care of it in a great way as always. I just had a hip replacement and am grounded to home and bored so I got the pieces out, glued them together, sanded them and slapped some stain on. Not bad for an hour's work, LOL! Now, the device, I use it more everyday, got a selection of 3M lapping paper, this thing works for sure. Been touching up all my knives on it, puts on a crazy fine edge.


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 12, 2017)

Update: So I picked up lots of grit sizes from Lee Valley. Different abrasives too: Allumnium Oxide, Cromium Oxide and Silicon Carbide. Range from 

100um to 0.3um

Some impressions of the device.

The holder is able to stretch the paper so tight, actually more than my fingers can tighten. This creates an incredibly flat smooth abrasive surface for sharpening. Initially I though of this device as primarily a stropping tool. But give the pressure you can apply to the paper, I now use it just like a sharpening stone. 

BOOM. See the potential now?

I know, its kinda hard to wrap your mind around it, if you think about the limitless possibilities give whats available in sheet backed abrasives. Just going to Home Depot you could come home with 30 or more different sheets of abrasives. 

But it really gets fun when you know that your little Pet in X steel loves a 30um A/O scratch before a quick rub on a 5um SIC before a gentile petting on a 0.5um CRO.


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## Nemo (Sep 12, 2017)

Any impressions on differences between abrasives? Or brands?


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## hambone.johnson (Sep 12, 2017)

Mucho. 

I found the same thing. I bought 5 grits from 80-600 and initially just planned on doing some aggressive thinning on a couple of cleavers to get the shoulders off them. Once I got up to 600 the knives had such bite and teeth on them I gave it a quick strop and it was done. Extremely sharp! 

I'm going to pick up the rest of the grit progressions, and like you, experiment with just how far you can push the device.


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## cheflivengood (Sep 12, 2017)

Used it to stretch some bacon. Threw it in the oven and bacon came out nice and flat and the device is fine, great product. 




:justkidding:


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## TheCaptain (Sep 12, 2017)

Some say this device is stolen alien technology and that mankind is not advanced enough to understand all it's mysteries, all we know is that it's called the Kasfly!

Ok, lame but I had to go there.

I know it was stated earlier that you could assemble one cheaper yourself, but then you'd be out the pure pleasure of using an exceptionally well made tool. Money very well spent IMHO.

So, I have a cleaver which I'd like to thin a bit. I think this is perfect for the task. Anyone want to suggest a sandpaper progression? My first thinning attempt so I completely own the fact that I don't know what the heck I'm doing.


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 12, 2017)

Captain, Just use a series of 3M papers at the hardware store. You can get a series from 120 to 2500 for about $25. Then slice them up and mount them. I use a paper cutter. I haven't tried but might also try sharpening with oil.


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Sep 12, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> ... Anyone want to suggest a sandpaper progression? ....



It sort of depends on what you can source locally. I've had better luck using (a little slightly) soapy water when using sandpaper, so ideally you'll find wet-dry paper. I haven't found good selections in coarse grits around here though. Depending on your luck, sanding belts might be your best bet. (Widths might be off, but very easy to cut to length.) I've found the ceramic abrasive ones, under different brands, actually work pretty well on steel. As you go finer, you'll have not only what the local hardware (or big box) store carries, but also auto parts & hobby shops.

If you're willing to wait for an order, 3M makes Aluminum-Oxide and Silicon-Carbide sheets. I linked some examples I know off hand, but for the KASFLY you'd prefer non-PSA sheets and will want to search around. I know there are also diamond sheets, in the finer grits at least, but my example is too small for the KASFLY so you'd definitely shop around.

ETA: I kept looking and found a post (on a woodworking forum) saying Otto Frei carries 3M products that LV doesn't. (I'm finding their site frustrating to navigate, but...) Here are two examples of 3M film Coarse and Medium assortments.

Good luck (and let us know what you learn! Thanks.)


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## hambone.johnson (Sep 13, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> So, I have a cleaver which I'd like to thin a bit. I think this is perfect for the task. Anyone want to suggest a sandpaper progression? My first thinning attempt so I completely own the fact that I don't know what the heck I'm doing.




Captain, 

i thinned 2 cleavers recently (mostly because thats all i use :biggrin they were both stainless steel and had some decent shoulders that needed to be blended. I ended up thinning them both about 1/2 an inch up the side of the cleaver. i used 80 grit to get a lot of the work done. then 120, 220, 320, 400. most of the work was on 80 and 120 and the 220, 320 and 400 i spent progressively less time. the 400 really didnt remove metal so much as work scratches out. To tell you the truth i stopped both knives at the 400 grit and they were as sharp as i probably could have gotten on a stone so ive just been using them as is and they are performing really well. ive pasted a couple of previous posts from some well known individuals about how to go about thinning so as to not waste time or provide false information. i also bought the same sandpaper that cheflivingood posted on page 2 as a link. it worked really well. spent maybee 40 or 50$ on sandpaper and used a sheet of each. its a pretty efficient process. 

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...g-Gesshin-Hide-225-mm-guto?highlight=thinning

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...ing-School-Thinning-Lesson?highlight=thinning


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## Mucho Bocho (Oct 14, 2017)

I wanted to post Knives FB on polishing papers. Very informative

http://zknives.com/knives/sharpening/abfilms.shtml


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## Mucho Bocho (Jun 14, 2018)

With all the talk about stropping materials, I'm going to bump this thread. I still think the Kasfly is the king of strops. I suppose you could use felt or leather with it too but it really excels with polishing papers.


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## Nemo (Jun 14, 2018)

Mucho Bocho said:


> With all the talk about stropping materials, I'm going to bump this thread. I still think the Kasfly is the king of strops. I suppose you could use felt or leather with it too but it really excels with polishing papers.


What sort of grit are you talking, Mucho?


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## Mucho Bocho (Jun 14, 2018)

Thats whats so cool. Any abrasive backed paper will work. Ive got AI2O3 and boron carbide papers ranging from 100 to 1 micron. Works great for low grit thinning to ultra polish. Have it your way just like BK.


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## mc2442 (Jun 14, 2018)

Thank you for bumping the thread as I missed it the first time around. I have been playing around with sandpaper lately and this sounded intriguing so I ordered one.


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## PappaG (Jul 31, 2018)

I'm 95% sure I'm going to buy this device. Two questions about other possible uses:

1. Could this be used as a stone flattener with either drywall screen and or sandpaper? (if so what would you recommend). Essentially rubbing your stones directly on this to flatten?

2. Would a peice of leather fit in this to be used as a strop? Or would leather not bend properly to clamp in.

Very interested and appreciate your thoughts.


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## khashy (Jul 31, 2018)

PappaG said:


> I'm 95% sure I'm going to buy this device. Two questions about other possible uses:
> 
> 1. Could this be used as a stone flattener with either drywall screen and or sandpaper? (if so what would you recommend). Essentially rubbing your stones directly on this to flatten?
> 
> ...



I have used it for flattening stones with sandpaper before. See an example of mine here:

 https://instagram.com/p/Bg_yIu7HNFZ/

You won’t be able to slip leather into the holder slots, they’re designed for paper and have appropriately thin slots


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## PappaG (Jul 31, 2018)

thanks.
So what are you guys using this for? I'm really, really interested, but I'm not sure how to use sand paper for thinning or other purposes.


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## Nemo (Jul 31, 2018)

PappaG said:


> thanks.
> So what are you guys using this for? I'm really, really interested, but I'm not sure how to use sand paper for thinning or other purposes.


Use it the same way you use a stone. Except you change the sandpaper when it stopps cutting properly or when you need a different grit.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 1, 2018)

Also, Though I haven't used it as a leather strop, I was able to get a thin piece of horse to fit.


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## khashy (Aug 1, 2018)

PappaG said:


> thanks.
> So what are you guys using this for? I'm really, really interested, but I'm not sure how to use sand paper for thinning or other purposes.



Here’s an example:

 https://instagram.com/p/BhBztyrH7Q0/


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## PappaG (Aug 1, 2018)

Very cool. thanks for the vid.


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## Marek07 (Dec 16, 2018)

PappaG said:


> I'm 95% sure I'm going to buy this device. Two questions about other possible uses:
> 
> 1. Could this be used as a stone flattener with either drywall screen and or sandpaper? (if so what would you recommend). Essentially rubbing your stones directly on this to flatten?
> 
> ...


A very late response - was I asleep at the wheel? 
I have used kangaroo leather in the Kasfly. It's fairly easy to fit it but mounting it on a broader and longer piece of timber (or other suitable substratum) is much more satisfying for stropping duties.


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## tim37 (Dec 16, 2018)

where can I buy one?


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## KCMande (Dec 16, 2018)

tim37 said:


> where can I buy one?


http://www.knivesandstones.com/the-ultimate-sandpaper-holder-215mm-60mm-by-kasfly-czar-precision/


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## Dave Martell (Dec 18, 2018)

This is on my wish list too.


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## Nemo (Dec 18, 2018)

Just used mine to thin and restore very damaged edges on a set of old Chigago Cutlery knives for a relative. It's good to be able to go very coarse but I find that anything below about 180 grit feels wierd. 180 is pretty fast, though.


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## Nemo (Nov 29, 2022)

Nemo said:


> Just used mine to thin and restore very damaged edges on a set of old Chigago Cutlery knives for a relative. It's good to be able to go very coarse but I find that anything below about 180 grit feels wierd. 180 is pretty fast, though.


Subsequent to this, I've used it with 80 grit to repair a deeply chipped knife. You get used to the feeling of the very coarse grit after a while.

Be very careful not to skin your knuckles on the 80 grit paper, though.


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