# Need strop advice



## ar11

I've read through several posts on strops, but perhaps someone could quickly answer some questions I have:

Materials - Balsa, Leather, Felt - Is there one that works better for kitchen knives or certain steels (stainless vs carbon)? Is it the feedback the material gives? Or are certain materials easier to load?

Loaded vs Unloaded - Seems like most people load strops before use for fine cutting. Do people ever strop unloaded or is that ineffective? I thought I read Murray Carter just strops on newsprint. 

Spray/Paste - Any preference toward diamond spray vs CrO? I gather the micron size makes most of the difference.


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## Frater_Decus

I've only stropped unloaded, so I can't speak for the benefits of such. I've had great results from simply stropping on newspaper or some scrap rawhide I have left over from a motorcycle seat project. I also pull through champagne corks to deburr, if that tells you anything, haha! :thumbsup:


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## gic

Well I am in love with my Balsa wood hone with 1 micron blue diamond spray.

Although, I have no actual data since I have only used diamonds spray, I suspect for the same micron size, diamond would give a toothier edge than CrO or CBN because of the shape of the crystals. But at 1 micron, it is awesomely polished as well...


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## harlock0083

ar11 said:


> I've read through several posts on strops, but perhaps someone could quickly answer some questions I have:
> 
> Materials - Balsa, Leather, Felt - Is there one that works better for kitchen knives or certain steels (stainless vs carbon)? Is it the feedback the material gives? Or are certain materials easier to load?
> 
> Loaded vs Unloaded - Seems like most people load strops before use for fine cutting. Do people ever strop unloaded or is that ineffective? I thought I read Murray Carter just strops on newsprint.
> 
> Spray/Paste - Any preference toward diamond spray vs CrO? I gather the micron size makes most of the difference.



I've stropped newsprint (over a dry stone for a nice flat surface and yes Murray strops on newsprint), cardboard and leather. 

Diamond will be faster than CrO and the edge feels has more "bite" to it for me. I have 3 bottles of the handamerican spray (1, 0.5, and 0.25 microns). I strop on balsa mostly now. I do have some leather lying around though. Its easy load the splitside of leather (CrO crayon, powder). I think the grain (smooth side) is for paste. I think that's how it works....

As for stropping material theirs so many out there its hard to keep track (heck, I just found out you can use denim for stropping!). For me its not about feedback its just a medium to hold the diamond spray.

Yes, you can strop unloaded (as long as your stropping medium has silica in it).


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## harlock0083

gic said:


> Well I am in love with my Balsa wood hone with 1 micron blue diamond spray.
> 
> Although, I have no actual data since I have only used diamonds spray, I suspect for the same micron size, diamond would give a toothier edge than CrO or CBN because of the shape of the crystals. But at 1 micron, it is awesomely polished as well...



I think the green CrO is generally 0.5 micron (avg particle size), but I agree so far from my experience diamond is toothier than CrO. I haven't tried CBN though.


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## Paradox

I like to strop on loaded balsa and plain horse leather. I have several grits of stuff for the balsa. 1µ Boron Carbide paste, .5µ CrO paste (Green), 1µ, and .25µ diamond spray. The BC and CrO are less expensive and give me very good results so I have not gone too wild chasing the other stuff available out there. 

Seems like some folks selling the stuff will blow all kinds of smoke and mirrors up your behind about their expensive formulations. I'm not convinced they meet the promises made.  It's best to try some stuff and see what works best for you. Good luck!


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## Mucho Bocho

Smooth bovine leather loaded w/ 1u diamond spray (I use HA brand) will bring a properly sharpened edge into scary sharp category. 

I'm a very active and passionate home cook and insist that my knives are scary sharp at all times. So I usually strop before each cutting task, sometime inbetween tasks. Im a freak but if my knives slide at all when stroking a ripe tomato skin, then it gets stropped. I like my edges sticky with three finger test and very quietly push cut paper.

When stroppping alone fails bring it back that sharp edge, I run the edge over a HA Brand 1200 ceramic rod, then strop on loaded leather. When that ceases to bring the edge back, I strop on take out my highest grit stone (takenono 8K), then back to loaded leather. Sometimes my fingers shake before touching the blade cause they know better. Yep


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## harlock0083

Mucho Bocho said:


> Smooth bovine leather loaded w/ 1u diamond spray (I use HA brand) will bring a properly sharpened edge into scary sharp category.
> 
> I'm a very active and passionate home cook and insist that my knives are scary sharp at all times. So I usually strop before each cutting task, sometime inbetween tasks. Im a freak but if my knives slide at all when stroking a ripe tomato skin, then it gets stropped. I like my edges sticky with three finger test and very quietly push cut paper.
> 
> When stroppping alone fails bring it back that sharp edge, I run the edge over a HA Brand 1200 ceramic rod, then strop on loaded leather. When that ceases to bring the edge back, I strop on take out my highest grit stone (takenono 8K), then back to loaded leather. Sometimes my fingers shake before touching the blade cause they know better. Yep



Just don't slide your fingers up and down too much on the edge.....


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## JohnnyChance

Felt loaded w/ 1 micron diamond is all I ever use/need.


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## CrisAnderson27

gic said:


> Well I am in love with my Balsa wood hone with 1 micron blue diamond spray.
> 
> Although, I have no actual data since I have only used diamonds spray, I suspect for the same micron size, diamond would give a toothier edge than CrO or CBN because of the shape of the crystals. But at 1 micron, it is awesomely polished as well...



I used to only strop on newspaper over a hard plate...and the edges were great. I had some felt strops I made from F1 hard felt, loaded with 6, 3, 1, and .5 diamond sprays...and I never felt they actually did anything. No matter how I positioned the knife (and I tried a TON), or what pressure I put on it...it felt like I was just sliding the knife over smooth cloth, and it didn't get any sharper. I always finished with the newsprint. Soooo last week I picked up a 3' piece of 5/16" balsa and made some strops out of that. I loaded them with the same sprays...and yeah, the difference was insane. First, the balsa tells you EXACTLY when you're hitting the edge, no matter what pressure you're using. That alone was worth it. But the cutting action seems much more efficient. Well worth the $5 I spent on the wood.

A friend of mine is sending me a horse butt leather strop soon...he suggested I use it unloaded as a finisher. I'm looking forward to trying it out.


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## Mucho Bocho

Slide your fingers? I'm talking scary sharp, any movement up or down would unquestionaly produce blood, just the movement of actually touching the cutting edge is enough to leave a mark. If the edge is keen and I can move my fingers up or down the blade, then I grabe the ceramic rod cause the blade doesn't have enough bite. I like a toothy but refined edge. 



harlock0083 said:


> Just don't slide your fingers up and down too much on the edge.....


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## CrisAnderson27

Mucho Bocho said:


> Smooth bovine leather loaded w/ 1u diamond spray (I use HA brand) will bring a properly sharpened edge into scary sharp category.
> 
> I'm a very active and passionate home cook and insist that my knives are scary sharp at all times. So I usually strop before each cutting task, sometime inbetween tasks. Im a freak but if my knives slide at all when stroking a ripe tomato skin, then it gets stropped. I like my edges sticky with three finger test and very quietly push cut paper.
> 
> When stroppping alone fails bring it back that sharp edge, I run the edge over a HA Brand 1200 ceramic rod, then strop on loaded leather. When that ceases to bring the edge back, I strop on take out my highest grit stone (takenono 8K), then back to loaded leather. Sometimes my fingers shake before touching the blade cause they know better. Yep





Mucho Bocho said:


> Slide your fingers? I'm talking scary sharp, any movement up or down would unquestionaly produce blood, just the movement of actually touching the cutting edge is enough to leave a mark. If the edge is keen and I can move my fingers up or down the blade, then I grabe the ceramic rod cause the blade doesn't have enough bite. I like a toothy but refined edge.



What is your sharpening process prior to the strop? I've cut myself pretty bloodily being only slightly careless with my edges...but with light pressure I can certainly run my three fingers down them.

Scary sharp is good .


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## harlock0083

Mucho Bocho said:


> Slide your fingers? I'm talking scary sharp, any movement up or down would unquestionaly produce blood, just the movement of actually touching the cutting edge is enough to leave a mark. If the edge is keen and I can move my fingers up or down the blade, then I grabe the ceramic rod cause the blade doesn't have enough bite. I like a toothy but refined edge.



Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I've cut myself enough times now.


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## Mucho Bocho

Cris, I saw that photo of you bloody mits last week, good one! Seriously, I hope it wasn't too deep, but somethinbg tell me this isn't the first time you've been bitten by a blade.

I have only been free-hand sharpeing for about six months now. I have a:

400 Naniwa Super Stone
1200 Bester
5k Rika
8K takenono


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## CrisAnderson27

Mucho Bocho said:


> Cris, I saw that photo of you bloody mits last week, good one! Seriously, I hope it wasn't too deep, but somethinbg tell me this isn't the first time you've been bitten by a blade.
> 
> I have only been free-hand sharpeing for about six months now. I have a:
> 
> 400 Naniwa Super Stone
> 1200 Bester
> 5k Rika
> 8K takenono



Nice! Prior to these kitchen knives...everything was sharpened on belts. I can get a crazy sharp edge on pretty much everything I make with belts, except kitchen knives. The edge is just too thin and the chance of burning it is too great...particularly near the tips. Soooo, I started freehand with diamond plates, and then Murray gave me his King 1000 and 6000 a couple weeks ago. I then finish off with the balsa strops.

Lol, it wasn't too deep, but man did it bleed! And you're right...definitely not the first time !


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## ar11

Thanks for all the feedback, where are you guys buying diamond spray and CrO?


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## spaceconvoy

harlock0083 said:


> Yes, you can strop unloaded (as long as your stropping medium has silica in it).



:scratchhead:

It sounds like you're equating stropping = abrading with a strop. You can strop unloaded leather, wood, denim, etc, but it serves a different purpose.

When I started out sharpening, I found stropping on 1u CBN gave me a sharper edge than from stones alone. It was like using a very forgiving 8k stone, cleaning up my imperfect technique and cutting an even but slightly rounded edge. That's the trade-off, and I've found that as I get better at sharpening, the loaded strop reaches a point of diminishing returns.

I just started stropping unloaded on horsebutt, which helps with burr removal between my low and high stones. I've heard if you strop only one side with pressure, it can reveal a wire edge, which makes sense but I haven't tried it. I've also heard it can improve an edge after your highest stone, but that seems a bit voodoo-ish to me, unless you still have residual burr maybe? 

I'm curious how others use an unloaded strop, since I don't have much experience with it yet myself.


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## harlock0083

spaceconvoy said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> It sounds like you're equating stropping = abrading with a strop. You can strop unloaded leather, wood, denim, etc, but it serves a different purpose.
> 
> When I started out sharpening, I found stropping on 1u CBN gave me a sharper edge than from stones alone. It was like using a very forgiving 8k stone, cleaning up my imperfect technique and cutting an even but slightly rounded edge. That's the trade-off, and I've found that as I get better at sharpening, the loaded strop reaches a point of diminishing returns.
> 
> I just started stropping unloaded on horsebutt, which helps with burr removal between my low and high stones. I've heard if you strop only one side with pressure, it can reveal a wire edge, which makes sense but I haven't tried it. I've also heard it can improve an edge after your highest stone, but that seems a bit voodoo-ish to me, unless you still have residual burr maybe?
> 
> I'm curious how others use an unloaded strop, since I don't have much experience with it yet myself.



I'm confused on why you're confused.... :dazed:


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## harlock0083

ar11 said:


> Thanks for all the feedback, where are you guys buying diamond spray and CrO?



I'll pm you the website I used.


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## spaceconvoy

harlock0083 said:


> I'm confused on why you're confused.... :dazed:



Oh, I think I see... you meant literally anything containing silica? Like an orange?? I guess with the right technique you _could_ strop on an orange


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## chinacats

When I strop it is mainly on diamond loaded felt or Gesshin 5k. I buy diamond juice from here.


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## harlock0083

chinacats said:


> When I strop it is mainly on diamond loaded felt or Gesshin 5k. I buy diamond juice from here.



Neat site.

Spacecowboy: Yes, I meant you can strop on any material containing silica whether the material is a good choice for stropping is another matter entirely.


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## spaceconvoy

chinacats said:


> When I strop it is mainly on diamond loaded felt or Gesshin 5k. I buy diamond juice from here.



Serendipity! I've been looking for that site, hard to remember such a generic name... IIRC, the compound is oil based and slurry is some sort of alcohol? Which grit do you like?


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## chinacats

spaceconvoy said:


> Serendipity! I've been looking for that site, hard to remember such a generic name... IIRC, the compound is oil based and slurry is some sort of alcohol? Which grit do you like?



I buy the slurry in 1 micron and heavy concentration. Thinking next time of ordering both the 1 micron and the next smaller size down (~.25u) and mixing them. Prices seem much more reasonable then pre-packaged sprays. They are very helpful if you call with questions--I did the first time I ordered and was very satisfied with their help/answers/service. They also sell rouge and aluminum oxide though I haven't tried either. 
The bottles don't have a spray attachment so I bought some good/inexpensive spray bottles from the bay that have worked very well.


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## Mucho Bocho

Ok so I did some testing last night with a range of different strop. I had three knives that were sharp ( do push cut paper tricks, shave hair, somewhat sticky 3 finger test) but if I slide the over blade over shoulder of a ripe tomato with the lightest touch possible, they would slip off and not grab. I worked on knives made of stainless steel, blue #2 and white #2 knives. 


Here is my finding:

1u Boron Carbide on Balsa:
Nice feeling, good feedback and easy to control stropping speed.
Refined the existing teeth but didn't entirely polish them so there was still a little stickiness to the blade, just a little more slippery than I like.
Left some paste residue on the blade
Made the primary bevel super shiny
After three passes on each side. I was not able to get the edge to bite the tomato, just slip sliding at most points on the blade. Made three attempts

Dry Takenono 8K polishing stone (JKS)
Stropped with light but moderate pressure across a completely dry stone. I've been having a hard time achieving scary sharpness on my MAC 7" Flexy Filet lately. Crazy thin maybe 0.5mm. When I ran it over the Takenoko three passes on each side and 3Finger tested I almost, pissed and cut myself at the same time.
Really nice feeling, not too gritty or scratchy
the primary was not polished as much as the Boron
Grabbed the tomato skin without hesitation after three passes per side.

Bovine located 1u Diamond spray
This has been my final step in sharpening for years now. Its one of the few things I can usually count on to improve my edge (refinement, ultra keenness, bite immediately)
Great feel once you used the leather a few times. Good feedback and easy to control stropping speed. 
Light strokes, few passes give a toothy.
This has been my tried and true finisher that always delivers tomato biting bladed if applied to an edge off a high grit stone.
Beautiful, sparkly primary bevel

Hard felt loaded with 1u Diamond spray. 
I don't like the feel. Its spongy and hard to hold an angle cause the pad changes depending on how much pressure you poly.
Found it hard to really get the tip right.
Was not able to produce a tomato biting edge and I think it actually rounded the primary B that I could not correct even with using the Tatenono.
I know guys are very fond of loaded felt. Perhaps just don't have the technique of it. Those that are fond of this method, please share with me your approach. 

I'm convinced that you could strop white #2 with water and improve the edge. White get redic


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## Keith Sinclair

I strop on newspaper our local rag has to be good for something,that & sailing knives thru it to check sharpness.Newspaper is also a good way to store oiled carbon blades.

I also strop on a large homemade 16" x4" cowhide glued to wood.I use Adam's #2 polish,years ago bought a 16oz bottle still have alot left.Clean the leather wt. Blue Goop.After years of use,strop still in great shape wt. only a few small nicks in the leather.

I like the Adams it cleans up & puts a nice polish on the edge.When I sharpen others knives easy finishing step.When you have a sharp edge off your stones,strop use is a lite touch,not good to push too hard into the leather as it can slightly round your crisp edge.Just like stone burr removal it's a very lite touch.


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## CrisAnderson27

Mucho Bocho said:


> Hard felt loaded with 1u Diamond spray.
> I don't like the feel. Its spongy and hard to hold an angle cause the pad changes depending on how much pressure you poly.
> Found it hard to really get the tip right.
> Was not able to produce a tomato biting edge and I think it actually rounded the primary B that I could not correct even with using the Tatenono.
> I know guys are very fond of loaded felt. Perhaps just don't have the technique of it. Those that are fond of this method, please share with me your approach.



This has been my exact experience with felt. The tip is awkward (it seems to bite into the felt or get hooked up), the feedback is zero, and nothing ever got sharper. As you said maybe its my technique, but it just didn't work for me.

What's funny is I have a 1x30 felt belt loaded with chromium oxide that is awesome for removing the burr on more substantial edges than kitchen knives. I like it far more than the cork belts I've tried.


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## gic

I was going to try Advanced ABrasives (http://store.advancedabrasives.com/) insanely good prices...


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## CrisAnderson27

gic said:


> I was going to try Advanced ABrasives (http://store.advancedabrasives.com/) insanely good prices...



Wow...nice selection. I wonder what the differences between slurry and suspension are? Then MDP, RDP, and PDP lol. The PDP is PRICEY. RDP cheapest, with MDP being middle of the road.

I made my own sprays from a paste (the paste was less expensive by a large margin) by mixing it with turpentine. It works perfectly and I have tons left...but it would be nice not to have to do that lol.


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## Ruso

> Wow...nice selection. I wonder what the differences between slurry and suspension are?


From my understanding Slurry is a liquid while Suspension is like a gel.


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## chinacats

Looks more expensive than usp though still better than many...if I'm doing the comparison of products right (which I may not be).


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## berko

i buy mine from an austrian gemstone demand:

http://www.edelopale.at/pi14/index.html


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## ar11

chinacats said:


> I buy the slurry in 1 micron and heavy concentration. Thinking next time of ordering both the 1 micron and the next smaller size down (~.25u) and mixing them. Prices seem much more reasonable then pre-packaged sprays. They are very helpful if you call with questions--I did the first time I ordered and was very satisfied with their help/answers/service. They also sell rouge and aluminum oxide though I haven't tried either.
> The bottles don't have a spray attachment so I bought some good/inexpensive spray bottles from the bay that have worked very well.



Having never used diamond spray - will the slurry spray through a standard spray bottle? Or do you need a specialized spray head?


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## chinacats

I looked for ones called 'atomizers' that hold ~10ml--they are made of glass. They work very well and are not expensive.


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## panda

Felt or leather, UNloaded. The compounds are a neat trick but the effect is temporary in my experience, not worth the trouble if I have to re do it after every other task.


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## harlock0083

panda said:


> Felt or leather, UNloaded. The compounds are a neat trick but the effect is temporary in my experience, not worth the trouble if I have to re do it after every other task.



But stropped edges are so much fun! I haven't reloaded my balsa yet, but its definitely not every other time I need to load the strops again with the diamond spray.


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## CrisAnderson27

Mucho Bocho said:


> Smooth bovine leather loaded w/ 1u diamond spray (I use HA brand) will bring a properly sharpened edge into scary sharp category.
> 
> I'm a very active and passionate home cook and insist that my knives are scary sharp at all times. So I usually strop before each cutting task, sometime inbetween tasks. Im a freak but if my knives slide at all when stroking a ripe tomato skin, then it gets stropped. I like my edges sticky with three finger test and very quietly push cut paper.
> 
> When stroppping alone fails bring it back that sharp edge, I run the edge over a HA Brand 1200 ceramic rod, then strop on loaded leather. When that ceases to bring the edge back, I strop on take out my highest grit stone (takenono 8K), then back to loaded leather. Sometimes my fingers shake before touching the blade cause they know better. Yep



The atomizers I bought were plastic, 10ml, and work perfectly. I wish I'd have found glass ones lol. Mine came 12 to a package for like $6.



Mucho Bocho said:


> Slide your fingers? I'm talking scary sharp, any movement up or down would unquestionaly produce blood, just the movement of actually touching the cutting edge is enough to leave a mark. If the edge is keen and I can move my fingers up or down the blade, then I grabe the ceramic rod cause the blade doesn't have enough bite. I like a toothy but refined edge.





chinacats said:


> I looked for ones called 'atomizers' that hold ~10ml--they are made of glass. They work very well and are not expensive.


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## Benuser

A very basic suggestion here, if you don't mind. A piece of leather painted with acrylic olive green artist paint. Pigment is Cr2O3, water soluble. Helps in recognizing the last burr remainings, and to remove them.


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## CrisAnderson27

Sorry for the weird quotes above...the multiquote system here is wonky.


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## gic

Or instead of paint one can buy one of those green waxy thingys and dissolve little bits of it in isopropyl alcohol but I think they are more like 3-6 microns then 1.

The green brick i bought for $10 on Amazon is enough compound to make solutions for a couple of hundred KKF members!


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## Dave Martell

Mucho Bocho said:


> Hard felt loaded with 1u Diamond spray.
> I don't like the feel. Its spongy and hard to hold an angle cause the pad changes depending on how much pressure you poly.
> Found it hard to really get the tip right.
> Was not able to produce a tomato biting edge and I think it actually rounded the primary B that I could not correct even with using the Tatenono.
> I know guys are very fond of loaded felt. Perhaps just don't have the technique of it. Those that are fond of this method, please share with me your approach.




Is this felt from HA This Site Not Allowed Here.com? If so then it's the felt's fault, it's too mushy. If it's really true "rock hard" felt then it might be you but I hesitate to blame the user if the felt is truly rock hard because this stuff os so forgiving to improper technique. Plus, you're using leather without edge rounding so my guess is that you know what your doing here. So I'm back to guessing that the felt you have as being too soft.


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## Dave Martell

CrisAnderson27 said:


> This has been my exact experience with felt. The tip is awkward (it seems to bite into the felt or get hooked up), the feedback is zero, and nothing ever got sharper. As you said maybe its my technique, but it just didn't work for me.



Cris, what type of felt are you using? In my experience only the true rock hard stuff from India works on knives, the industrial stuff we get here in the US is junk in comparison.


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## Dave Martell

gic said:


> I was going to try Advanced ABrasives (http://store.advancedabrasives.com/) insanely good prices...




That's where Ken Schwartz of CKTG and Keith DeGrau of Hand American get their stuff from. They buy it by the gallons and re-bottle it.


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## Dave Martell

CrisAnderson27 said:


> Wow...nice selection. I wonder what the differences between slurry and suspension are? Then MDP, RDP, and PDP lol. The PDP is PRICEY. RDP cheapest, with MDP being middle of the road.




Slurry is for manual dispersion applications, requires shaking to mix, often times an uneven amount of abrasive is dispersed since the abrasive settles/separates from the solution carrier. 

Suspension is meant for use in automated dispensing applications where shaking of the product can not be done, the abrasive particles are suspended within the solution, evenly distributed.

MDP = Monocrystalline Diamond - Single clump like structures that work great initially but slow down on cut rate as the particles begin to wear/round over.

PDP = Polycrystalline Diamond - Multi-faceceted sharp pointed structures with a fast cut rate that can remain, or even increase, in speed as the particles break down into smaller bits through fracturing thus exposing even more sharp edges to the work piece. Expensive for a reason.


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## CrisAnderson27

Dave Martell said:


> Cris, what type of felt are you using? In my experience only the true rock hard stuff from India works on knives, the industrial stuff we get here in the US is junk in comparison.



You're probably 100% right. I searched and searched for what type felt to use...I ended up choosing F1 hard felt from Amazon after finding zero information.

I may have to try again


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## CrisAnderson27

Dave Martell said:


> Slurry is for manual dispersion applications, requires shaking to mix, often times an uneven amount of abrasive is dispersed since the abrasive settles/separates from the solution carrier.
> 
> Suspension is meant for use in automated dispensing applications where shaking of the product can not be done, the abrasive particles are suspended within the solution, evenly distributed.
> 
> MDP = Monocrystalline Diamond - Single clump like structures that work great initially but slow down on cut rate as the particles begin to wear/round over.
> 
> PDP = Polycrystalline Diamond - Multi-faceceted sharp pointed structures with a fast cut rate that can remain, or even increase, in speed as the particles break down into smaller bits through fracturing thus exposing even more sharp edges to the work piece. Expensive for a reason.



Excellent! So what I made from the paste is a slurry. Good to know...and also good for future purchases. Thanks Dave.


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## ar11

Wow lots of good info in this thread!


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## chinacats

Dave Martell said:


> Slurry is for manual dispersion applications, requires shaking to mix, often times an uneven amount of abrasive is dispersed since the abrasive settles/separates from the solution carrier.
> 
> Suspension is meant for use in automated dispensing applications where shaking of the product can not be done, the abrasive particles are suspended within the solution, evenly distributed.
> 
> MDP = Monocrystalline Diamond - Single clump like structures that work great initially but slow down on cut rate as the particles begin to wear/round over.
> 
> PDP = Polycrystalline Diamond - Multi-faceceted sharp pointed structures with a fast cut rate that can remain, or even increase, in speed as the particles break down into smaller bits through fracturing thus exposing even more sharp edges to the work piece. Expensive for a reason.



Very helpful info Dave--Thanks!


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## Seb

Is anybody selling the good hard felt with magnetic backing then?


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## CrisAnderson27

Seb said:


> Is anybody selling the good hard felt with magnetic backing then?



I ordered self adhesive magnetic backing from Amazon and did it myself (I did the same with my balsa strops...having them stick to my DMT plates is incredibly useful). I think Marko sells felt strops with magnetic backs though...but don't hold me to that.


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## Mucho Bocho

Dave you busted me. Dam it, do you always have to be right 



Dave Martell said:


> Is this felt from HA This Site Not Allowed Here.com? If so then it's the felt's fault, it's too mushy. If it's really true "rock hard" felt then it might be you but I hesitate to blame the user if the felt is truly rock hard because this stuff os so forgiving to improper technique. Plus, you're using leather without edge rounding so my guess is that you know what your doing here. So I'm back to guessing that the felt you have as being too soft.


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## Dave Martell

Seb said:


> Is anybody selling the good hard felt with magnetic backing then?



Check with Marko.


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## Dave Martell

Mucho Bocho said:


> Dave you busted me. Dam it, do you always have to be right




LOL, just a lucky guess.


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## panda

i use the same 'suspect' one and works just fine. it has however started to warp.


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## Mucho Bocho

Panda, Tell us more about your approach? compounds...


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## panda

I just lay it flat horizontally on prep table and use moderate pressure, unloaded. Angle of approach is that of higher than the edge, I'd guess 5-10deg more. Starting at the tip and sliding on a bias ending with heel.


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## Mucho Bocho

Panda, Thanks. I loaded mine with 1u Diamond spray. Tried raising the blade above sharpening angle but it just rolled/polished the edge. Given the you've had success, probably means my technique needs work. I'll give it another try.


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## bahamaroot

Dave Martell said:


> That's where Ken Schwartz of CKTG and Keith DeGrau of Hand American get their stuff from. They buy it by the gallons and re-bottle it.


And sell it for outrageous prices, especially Ken. Man Dave you should bottle the stuff and undercut Ken!


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## chinacats

bahamaroot said:


> And sell it for outrageous prices, especially Ken. Man Dave you should bottle the stuff and undercut Ken!


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## panda

Doubt it, you probably got a p.o.s. One.. Quality control issues maybe


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## Dave Martell

panda said:


> Doubt it, you probably got a p.o.s. One.. Quality control issues maybe




Keith is always changing up his stuff so who knows what he got.


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## Mucho Bocho

So I wanted to just post a little update. Last night I refreshed the edges of five or six knives of various steels. I'm at a point that stropping them with diamond/leather was starting to polish the teeth. So I stropped them on Dave's Takenoko 8K stone un soaked and dry (probably other high grit stone would work too) and it brough them right back to toothy but keen after a few strokes. it be honest, I think it created more bite than my 1200 HA ceramic rod. I know that likely I'll have to drop down lower maybe to my Rika next session, just wanted to share my results.

Also, I picked up one of Dave's hard felt strops. As noted I've been unsucessful to improve my edges with the diamond/felt strop I currently have from CKTG. When I get Dave's I'll post my findings. 

Anyone have success stropping on un-loaded felt? How long does the pad last?


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## liren1

Reviving this thread... Anyone know of a good place to buy these PDP/MDP sprays/suspensions/slurry in the UK, or Europe ? Somewhere where I won't need to buy it by the litres.. 
Thanks


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## riba

liren1 said:


> Reviving this thread... Anyone know of a good place to buy these PDP/MDP sprays/suspensions/slurry in the UK, or Europe ? Somewhere where I won't need to buy it by the litres..
> Thanks



Try the strop shop (not sure links are allowed here) or the invisible edge.

Good luck


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## liren1

Well, I couldn't find anything in the invisible edge, and the strop shop has monocrystalline diamond from 1 micron and down, couldn't see any PDP, or anything above 1 micron. I'll give them a call.
Typing in google "polycrystalline diamond suspension uk" yields some company names, it seems though these also sell in large quantities, like 250-400ml and up.


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## chinacats

liren1 said:


> Well, I couldn't find anything in the invisible edge, and the strop shop has monocrystalline diamond from 1 micron and down, couldn't see any PDP, or anything above 1 micron. I'll give them a call.
> Typing in google "polycrystalline diamond suspension uk" yields some company names, it seems though these also sell in large quantities, like 250-400ml and up.



250 ml should be a good size


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## riba

liren1 said:


> Well, I couldn't find anything in the invisible edge, and the strop shop has monocrystalline diamond from 1 micron and down, couldn't see any PDP, or anything above 1 micron. I'll give them a call.
> Typing in google "polycrystalline diamond suspension uk" yields some company names, it seems though these also sell in large quantities, like 250-400ml and up.



http://www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk/invisibleedgeproducts.html and scroll a bit down.

What are you looking for, pdp only, particular sizes? It isn't very clear from your question


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## liren1

Good question, I'm not sure what I want.. 
invisible edge - ah, they've got paste.
Having read this long and interesting thread I understood that the best for kitchen knives is PDP suspension or slurry, hence my question.
If I'm wrong of course then please correct me... 
I was thinking of getting maybe 3 microns and 1 micron, perhaps one other.

The reason I'm also looking at somewhat less refined/higher micron products, is because I was told I could put a bit of it on my edge pro stones and it helps sharpening 'harder to sharpen knives', like Blazen, which I'm having some trouble with, at least I need more time for it..
If this is not true then I'm willing to stand corrected on that also...


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## chinacats

I don't know anything about an edge pro but if you need to load your stones then you either need different stones or a different knife.


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## liren1

Well - I got the Shapton Glass, which I understand are the best for EP
Blazen - not going to replace that... 

Could be Edge Pro specific problem, I do manage to get a reasonably good edge, it's just damned hard and time consuming... the PDP is not crucial for this, I just thought it would help.


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## Dave Martell

Be careful not to fall into the trap set by the guys who cut and sell those EP stones. They've made a whole market out of talking lots of BS. The thing is that you don't need an EP, nor the expensive special stones they cut, nor special compounds to spray on the special stones when the special stones don't work....it's all a marketing ploy that's being propelled by new/ inexperienced sharpeners or retailers of said products.

So the subject of this thread is about treating strops with compounds, if you're looking for advice on how to treat stones with compounds you'll have to go back to those guys I was just talking about as that sort of crap isn't discussed here. 

Sorry to be so blunt but I get riled up when it comes to certain subjects. I mean you (liren1) no ill will. Good luck with your search regardless.

Dave


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## liren1

Dave Martell said:


> Be careful not to fall into the trap set by the guys who cut and sell those EP stones. They've made a whole market out of talking lots of BS. The thing is that you don't need an EP, nor the expensive special stones they cut, nor special compounds to spray on the special stones when the special stones don't work....it's all a marketing ploy that's being propelled by new/ inexperienced sharpeners or retailers of said products.
> 
> So the subject of this thread is about treating strops with compounds, if you're looking for advice on how to treat stones with compounds you'll have to go back to those guys I was just talking about as that sort of crap isn't discussed here.
> 
> Sorry to be so blunt but I get riled up when it comes to certain subjects. I mean you (liren1) no ill will. Good luck with your search regardless.
> 
> Dave



I was told this by another user, completely non related to the guys selling the stuff, maybe he's fallen into this trap and has dragged me with him  
For several reasons, for now, I'm using Edge Pro, Free Hand sharpening I will take on one day.. 
You're the expert, so I will take your advise at face value and drop my search for higher grit comound for the stones and concentrate on the strops.

So I'm still asking after reading the thread, it's still not clear to me if PDP is best for this, or MDP or makes no huge difference whatsoever ? The latter is more easily available here than the former, hence my question.


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## JohnnyChance

liren1 said:


> Well - I got the Shapton Glass, which I understand are the best for EP
> Blazen - not going to replace that...
> 
> Could be Edge Pro specific problem, I do manage to get a reasonably good edge, it's just damned hard and time consuming... the PDP is not crucial for this, I just thought it would help.



I found the Edge Pro to be excruciatingly slow and time consuming for just about every sharpening job. Free hand is much faster and efficient.


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## Dave Martell

Dave Martell said:


> Be careful not to fall into the trap set by the guys who cut and sell those EP stones. They've made a whole market out of talking lots of BS. The thing is that you don't need an EP, nor the expensive special stones they cut, nor special compounds to spray on the special stones when the special stones don't work....it's all a marketing ploy that's being propelled by new/ inexperienced sharpeners or retailers of said products.
> 
> So the subject of this thread is about treating strops with compounds, if you're looking for advice on how to treat stones with compounds you'll have to go back to those guys I was just talking about as that sort of crap isn't discussed here.
> 
> Sorry to be so blunt but I get riled up when it comes to certain subjects. I mean you (liren1) no ill will. Good luck with your search regardless.
> 
> Dave





liren1 said:


> I was told this by another user, completely non related to the guys selling the stuff, maybe he's fallen into this trap and has dragged me with him
> For several reasons, for now, I'm using Edge Pro, Free Hand sharpening I will take on one day..
> You're the expert, so I will take your advise at face value and drop my search for higher grit comound for the stones and concentrate on the strops.
> 
> So I'm still asking after reading the thread, it's still not clear to me if PDP is best for this, or MDP or makes no huge difference whatsoever ? The latter is more easily available here than the former, hence my question.




Generally speaking either PDP or MDP will work fine. It's only when you get into splitting hairs do you start to notice the differences and even then it's not so easy to say one is better than the other. Sometimes you just have to test for yourself as each specific brand/line/type/concentration/etc can work differently for different knives.


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## Paradox

liren1 said:


> The reason I'm also looking at somewhat less refined/higher micron products, is because I was told I could put a bit of it on my edge pro stones and it helps sharpening 'harder to sharpen knives', like Blazen, which I'm having some trouble with, at least I need more time for it..
> If this is not true then I'm willing to stand corrected on that also...



The only person I know of that says this is Ken Schwartz, he says it because he sells very expensive products for you to do it with. It may well work but I'm sure Ken is looking for a sale when makes the recommendation to load the stones with extra abrasive.

ETA: There are a few guys that have drank his Kool-Aid and it runs deep in them who parrot his phooy-balooy. The source is Ken though.


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## Mucho Bocho

Experiementation is the key. For the life of me, I can't get diamond loaded felt strops to improve my edges. I have both Dave's and the other guy's felt strops. I will say that I like the feel of Dave's better.

My experience with Strops
Bovine/Diamond--Killer
Naked Horse--ultra fine
Balsa/Cromium--toothy not as refined
Felt/Diamond--Nada but a shiny edge and a dusty blade
Naked Dry Takenono (Dave's)--Crazy bitty and keen after only a few passes. Best before naked horse.

But when I used to use the edge pro, I would put 1u diamond spray on a dry Ozuku Tomae mounted on the EP blank and it left a brilliantly bitty, clean ultra keen edge.


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## panda

The latest batch of felt strops from Dave are phenominal, use unloaded as its aggressive on its own. Its my favorite purchase of the year. Was a limited run, but he will probably bring more in with enough interest..


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## JohnnyChance

There are also different intentions for people when using strops. Some people are trying to refine their edge more, others are simply using the strop to clean up the edge and help remove residual burr. And then still you can use them to bring back or maintain an edge.

I like the way my edges feel when they come off the stones. I don't want them refined any more. I just want to clean them up a bit and make them last longer. So I just use hard felt and 1 micron diamond. I use an 8k DMT diamond plate or 6k JKI diamond stone to bring back or maintain my edge.


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## labor of love

panda said:


> Was a limited run, but he will probably bring more in with enough interest..



uhhh....theres interest alright!


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## Keith Sinclair

panda said:


> I just lay it flat horizontally on prep table and use moderate pressure, unloaded. Angle of approach is that of higher than the edge, I'd guess 5-10deg more. Starting at the tip and sliding on a bias ending with heel.



Little deff. than my tech.Main thing whatever works.I learned this from Dave & it has worked for me stropping many blades & it is how I teach it as well.Angle the spine until it just slightly bites the leather(I use Adams so it is a easy read)That is the strop angle,med lite pressure(too much can round your edge)As on the stones a steady spine is a must.At the end of the stroke,rock back & lift off the leather or lift 90% off,never roll at end of stroke as that too can round your edge.


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## Keith Sinclair

Panda I am going to order some horsehide leather,I make my own strops,& try unloaded & your tech. always up for new stuff.


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## panda

cool, maybe it will be in between leather/felt results??


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## Notaskinnychef

Read over this thread, great info here. I am at a point where I have been sharpening on the stones for a short while now and getting fairly comfortable but realized that I really need a strop. 

I have used newspaper before but I would like to establish a "real" strop to put in my kit. I know that I want a fixed strop, but using leather or felt or balsa is still on my mind. 

Thinking i would be using a compound i bought the extra fine bar from amazon for 10 bucks (couldn't say no for a pound at this price) but I don't know if i will even use that over spray.

With that said, i just use my knives at home and want something for occasional use. I have a CN as my main knife, and a SS nakiri that i also use. I think something a bit more forgiving would be a good idea but I also think I could most styles and get comfortable with them too. 

I plan on going to the craft store this week to get some materials and would love some guidance on what direction I should go. Thanks in advance for any help, cheers

Rich


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## Notaskinnychef

not trying to annoy anyone....but bump for my last post above as I would love some advice


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## Keith Sinclair

Well I have made a couple strops,just simple ones.Easy to get 3" wide strips of cowhide.3"X14" mounted on 1" thick wood. Leather to wood wt. Contact Cement.Ease the corners on wood wt.sanding before gluing.Seal wood wt. clear satin polyurethane.I like large strops also made a 3.5"X16".


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## chinacats

Salty had a pretty cool thread about a 4 way strop that seemed pretty simple to make here. Seems pretty simple and sweet and you can put whatever you like on each side!


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## Notaskinnychef

Thanks for that, I must have overlooked that thread when I searched. I just watched it and was amazed....1/8th micron? good lord that must have had a stupid sharp edge on it. Cheers


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