# Cut Brooklyn Wa handled gyutosanyone tried them?



## DitmasPork

Hi. Curious if anyone tried the Wa gyutos from Cut Brooklyn? Just noticed them on the site, Hitachi Blue 2site says its a collaboration. The profile looks a little like my Katothough perhaps a wee bit shorter and a tad flatter.

Not in the market at the momentfinances tight this yearbut love seeing new knives out there and love hearing opinions.


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## Chef Doom

Hahaha I remember when I was young and immature. The days when I thought a Cut Brooklyn was similar to fine china and those guest towels I am never allowed to touch. &#128514;

Didn't know he started listing his steel ingredients. For a while he kept that a secret.


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## milkbaby

I saw this "Osaka collaboration" thing on his website but wondered why there's no simple explanation of what that is. I guess he's too busy to type a quick "these are forged to my specifications by so-and-so hamono in Osaka and I finish grind and handle them" but that would take too much time away from actually making knives... :dontknow:


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## Chef Doom

milkbaby said:


> I saw this "Osaka collaboration" thing on his website but wondered why there's no simple explanation of what that is. I guess he's too busy to type a quick "these are forged to my specifications by so-and-so hamono in Osaka and I finish grind and handle them" but that would take too much time away from actually making knives... :dontknow:


It must be one of those Brooklyn methods of salesmanship that the rest of the country does not understand.


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## labor of love

Not a lot of cut Brooklyn fans on the forum.


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## panda

you have to have a beard and wear denim apron to use one


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## cheflivengood

panda said:


> you have to have a beard and wear denim apron to use one



lets keep the beards out of this


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## milkbaby

cheflivengood said:


> panda said:
> 
> 
> 
> you have to have a beard and wear denim apron to use one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lets keep the beards out of this
Click to expand...


I LOL :rofl2:

I sorta understand that he doesn't need to explain because his stuff tends to sell out regardless. I think he maintains his sales now simply because of being to the game early, getting promo, and building his brand. Somebody like Bob Kramer is so inquisitive and always studying and learning, and if Joel B. is the same, he may know more about kitchen knives than the majority of forum members. I don't know if this is the case, just laying out the possibilities...

But as Dave Martell noted in another thread, there are so many new knifemakers that he shouldn't be complacent.


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## orangehero

Bob Kramer is a knife _smith_. An over-rated one at that, but a talented and skilled smith nonetheless. The two don't belong in the same sentence together. Cut Brooklyn does not do forging or heat treatment, so until there is the skill and knowledge to do that I consider the knife maker amateur at best. Not saying that can't happen with them, but even now it doesn't seem they have really stepped up their game regarding knife craftsmanship.


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## valgard

orangehero said:


> Bob Kramer is a knife _smith_. An over-rated one at that, but a talented and skilled smith nonetheless. The two don't belong in the same sentence together. Cut Brooklyn does not do forging or heat treatment, so until there is the skill and knowledge to do that I consider the knife maker amateur at best. Not saying that can't happen with them, but even now it doesn't seem they have really stepped up their game regarding knife craftsmanship.



thats pretty narrow minded IMO considering you can basically get as good (or better in many cases) a knife from stock removal as from forging. Some stock removal guys do some awesome grinding and fit and finish is amazing, couple that with good controlled heat treating and you have a winner. For the record I am not into Kramer or CB.


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## talldrinkofwater

I have no personal knowledge one way or the other, but my *guess* is that the "Osaka collaboration" is closely related to the hosting of a 'polisher' from Seki that is discussed in this interview: http://nonabrooklyn.com/the-art-of-...ilgrimage-to-japan-to-learn-from-the-masters/

Maybe (??) there's an ongoing set of visiting artisans from Japan that turn out these knives in his shop.


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## cheflivengood

orangehero said:


> Bob Kramer is a knife _smith_. An over-rated one at that, but a talented and skilled smith nonetheless. The two don't belong in the same sentence together. Cut Brooklyn does not do forging or heat treatment, so until there is the skill and knowledge to do that I consider the knife maker amateur at best. Not saying that can't happen with them, but even now it doesn't seem they have really stepped up their game regarding knife craftsmanship.



Alight....explain to me how bob kramer is over-rated


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## orangehero

Just do a search for how much his knives sell at auction.

If you just type "best knifemaker" his name comes up multiple times in the top search results. Right up there with Jay Fisher lol


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

@orangehero I'd not doubt Jay Fisher as a top Knifemaker - i'd readily doubt his understanding of cooks' needs


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## StonedEdge

Wake me up when CB makes a collaboration with Chelsea Miller for the ultimate in over-priced hipster knives


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## cheflivengood

orangehero said:


> Just do a search for how much his knives sell at auction.
> 
> If you just type "best knifemaker" his name comes up multiple times in the top search results. Right up there with Jay Fisher lol



I guarantee only a handful of collectors have driven the price that high. His work and understanding of metallurgy is among the top in the world, hence MIT inviting him to talk to students about the subject. And given his fostering of a talent like Mareko Maumasi, I'd say he is rated pretty accurately as the greatest living kitchen knife smith on the planet.


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## Noodle Soup

But no working kitchen knife is worth what Kramer's sell for, period. 
Went to Jay Fishers website. He seems to have been around for a long time, not sure how our paths haven't crossed. But not much there in any category I would want to carry or use.


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## orangehero

cheflivengood said:


> And given his fostering of a talent like Mareko Maumasi, I'd say he is rated pretty accurately as the greatest living kitchen knife smith on the planet.



What does him being over-rated have anything to do with Mareko? BTW Mareko works here in CT now with a group of extremely talented smiths at Dragon's Breath Forge. They do a lot of swords and some cool stuff with making their own Wootz steel. Anyway whether Kramer is overrated is not the point, the point is that he is a completely different level of knife craftsmanship compared to Cut Brooklyn. They are mediocre-at-best mid-techs being sold at inflated prices.

Undoubtedly Jay Fisher is also very talented and his website is a great resource for knowledge about knives and knifemaking. I personally wouldn't put him into the top lists though. For example someone like Buster and Julie Warenski are a level above.


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## cheflivengood

orangehero said:


> What does him being over-rated have anything to do with Mareko? BTW Mareko works here in CT now with a group of extremely talented smiths at Dragon's Breath Forge. They do a lot of swords and some cool stuff with making their own Wootz steel. Anyway whether Kramer is overrated is not the point, the point is that he is a completely different level of knife craftsmanship compared to Cut Brooklyn. They are mediocre-at-best mid-techs being sold at inflated prices.
> 
> Undoubtedly Jay Fisher is also very talented and his website is a great resource for knowledge about knives and knifemaking. I personally wouldn't put him into the top lists though. For example someone like Buster and Julie Warenski are a level above.



Ya I know, Mareko slept on my couch when he moved, and Im sure he will tell you that he is not "over-rated". Is Stan Wilson over-rated just because his work sells for 10-20k for a small pocket knife? No, thats not up to them, thats the market. Is amazon an over rated website because its stock price is very high? No


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## labor of love

panda said:


> you have to have a beard and wear denim apron to use one



Lulz. Once no shave November is complete Ill be bringing back side burns.


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## orangehero

cheflivengood said:


> Is Stan Wilson over-rated just because his work sells for 10-20k for a small pocket knife? No, thats not up to them, thats the market. Is amazon an over rated website because its stock price is very high? No



Well, yes. Among other things, that's what over-rated means in this context. As to the second point a company can certainly be over-valued in much the same way.

I'm not shitting on Bob Kramer here I'm trying to **** on Cut Brooklyn  I mean good for him, may his endeavor continue to bring him financial success and perhaps he does have the desire to learn more about the craft and apply it to his products in a way that will only bring further success and respect.


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## milkbaby

milkbaby said:


> I sorta understand that he doesn't need to explain because his stuff tends to sell out regardless. I think he maintains his sales now simply because of being to the game early, getting promo, and building his brand. Somebody like Bob Kramer is so inquisitive and always studying and learning, and if Joel B. is the same, he may know more about kitchen knives than the majority of forum members. I don't know if this is the case, just laying out the possibilities...





orangehero said:


> Bob Kramer is a knife _smith_. An over-rated one at that, but a talented and skilled smith nonetheless. The two don't belong in the same sentence together. Cut Brooklyn does not do forging or heat treatment, so until there is the skill and knowledge to do that I consider the knife maker amateur at best. Not saying that can't happen with them, but even now it doesn't seem they have really stepped up their game regarding knife craftsmanship.



That one is a bladesmithing knifemaker and the other a knifemaker who doesn't forge doesn't have anything to do with what I'm talking about. You don't have to be a bladesmith to make a great knife. The comparison point I was making is that if Joel Bukiewicz is as deeply curious and inquisitive as Bob Kramer is in learning about knives and the craft of making knives, then he is likely a lot more knowledgeable than not only his customers, but more than many forum members here. 

I don't know JB's process, but if he doesn't do his own heat treatment, how is that different from a Japanese bladesmith that doesn't do his own sharpening/bevel grind of which there are numerous examples.


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## labor of love

DitmasPork said:


> Hi. Curious if anyone tried the Wa gyutos from Cut Brooklyn? Just noticed them on the site, Hitachi Blue 2site says its a collaboration. The profile looks a little like my Katothough perhaps a wee bit shorter and a tad flatter.
> 
> Not in the market at the momentfinances tight this yearbut love seeing new knives out there and love hearing opinions.


No one can help you OP, CB knives almost belong in the ugliest knife ever thread http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/545-ugliest-knife-ever
Even if this collaboration he did is cool I doubt anyone around here would bother with it.


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## talldrinkofwater

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, obviously. I quite like the two CB blades I own.


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## cheflivengood

orangehero said:


> Well, yes. Among other things, that's what over-rated means in this context. As to the second point a company can certainly be over-valued in much the same way.
> 
> I'm not shitting on Bob Kramer here I'm trying to **** on Cut Brooklyn  I mean good for him, may his endeavor continue to bring him financial success and perhaps he does have the desire to learn more about the craft and apply it to his products in a way that will only bring further success and respect.



You just fixed our issue. Over valued vs over-rated is chalk and cheese.


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## orangehero

Right, so therefore Bob Kramer is over-rated as he's more chalk than cheese.


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## panda

i put CB and BK knives in same category.


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## talldrinkofwater

https://ibb.co/nC8cnb
https://ibb.co/dkqZYG


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## milkbaby

talldrinkofwater said:


> https://ibb.co/nC8cnb
> https://ibb.co/dkqZYG



Your knives? We need a review and better pics!


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## Chef Doom

panda said:


> you have to have a beard and wear denim apron to use one


&#129315;&#129315;&#129315; So true so true. Don't forget the flannel shirt and leather carrier bag.


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## Chef Doom

cheflivengood said:


> Ya I know, Mareko slept on my couch when he moved, and Im sure he will tell you that he is not "over-rated". Is Stan Wilson over-rated just because his work sells for 10-20k for a small pocket knife? No, thats not up to them, thats the market. Is amazon an over rated website because its stock price is very high? No


The same Amazon that still has not made a decent profit compared to sales and refuses to acknowledge or deal with the high number of knockoff products that floods it web queries?


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## daveb

panda said:


> you have to have a beard and wear denim apron to use one





Chef Doom said:


> &#63779;&#63779;&#63779; So true so true. Don't forget the flannel shirt and leather carrier bag.



How many spoons must be in pocket of said apron before cool ticket is punched???


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## panda

as long as it has a zipper on it dont matter how many pockets, and the neckband has to be a different color from the canvas.


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## panda

Chef Doom said:


> &#129315;&#129315;&#129315; So true so true. Don't forget the flannel shirt and leather carrier bag.



bonus points for large gauge earings and neck tattoos and comb over hair and black painted fingernails and vans for shoes, vegan bracelets also good


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## talldrinkofwater

milkbaby said:


> Your knives? We need a review and better pics!



Yes. Ill try to post a review in the next few days.


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## milkbaby

talldrinkofwater said:


> Yes. Ill try to post a review in the next few days.



Thanks, I'm looking forward to it! Too often people aren't willing to consider ideas outside their preconceived notions. Personally, I think Cut Brooklyn knives are ugly looking, not my taste, but maybe they actually perform well and feel great in hand. As an interested kitchen knife enthusiast, I would like to hear if that is so.


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## Chef Doom

daveb said:


> How many spoons must be in pocket of said apron before cool ticket is punched???


At least 2 and 1 of them must be hand forged.


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## Chef Doom

panda said:


> bonus points for large gauge earings and neck tattoos and comb over hair and black painted fingernails and vans for shoes, vegan bracelets also good


And dont you dare cover up that neck tattoo for an interview at a corporate kitchen. You walk in with that open flannel shirt and pleather knife roll like the badass you pretend to be.


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## Chef Doom

&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## Pensacola Tiger

milkbaby said:


> Thanks, I'm looking forward to it! Too often people aren't willing to consider ideas outside their preconceived notions. Personally, I think Cut Brooklyn knives are ugly looking, not my taste, but maybe they actually perform well and feel great in hand. As an interested kitchen knife enthusiast, I would like to hear if that is so.



A little over five years ago, Ben Chang graciously lent his Cut Brooklyn knife for a pass around. You can read the thread here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7400-Cut-Brooklyn-PA.

My own thoughts that I shared with Ben were:



> It performed very well on carrots, bell peppers and scallions; less well on taller foods like Vidalia onions and potatoes.
> 
> It needs to be thinned behind the edge to really cut well. I noted moderate stiction.
> 
> I would have to say that the Cut Brooklyn is competent, but not exceptional. Is it a good value? There are many other knives that are better performers for the same price or less.
> 
> In the end, the knife failed to ignite any strong desire in me to own it.



It will be interesting to see if Joel Bukiewicz has learned anything in five years.


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## DitmasPork

Apologies for my absence after posting this threadgot super busy dealing with work and life issues. Wow, didn't know the mere mention of CB knives would conjure up such a lively discussion!

For the record, I live in Brooklyn, but because of my Asian heritage lack the required number of facial follicles for a full beardand I don't own any flannel shirts.

I had been curious about the CB 'Osaka' collaboration because his other two knives are the 'Prospect' which has a more contemporary design and handle; and the 'Journeyman,' which looks more traditional, kind of Sabatier-likeboth made in his shop. With the 'Osaka,' he obviously wanted a Wa knife in the CB line up, just didn't understand why CB didn't do a Wa knife in-house like his other knives?

I can't express any opinions on CB knivesother than visualsince I've not handled any of them. Someone on this thread mentioned that CB doesn't heat treat or forge in-house? Is that a fact? I just assumed that CB did all that in-house (except for the 'Osaka')?

Also, I was able to track down additional info on the Osaka, below are some excerpts (did't want to cut and paste the whole thing):
_
"I'll say that what we've made is a limited, numbered run of hand-forged Osaka Journeyman 240's, in the Japanese style with western parameters, from cladded Hitachi Blue #2 steel and black walnut."

"...in a neighborhood on the south side of Osaka called Sakai where they've made some of the best kitchen knives in the world for centuries. And it's all about the forging in Sakai. Everything is forged."

"I asked a handful of these workshops if they'd be interested in doing their own interpretation of a Journeyman 240 blade, that I would finish and handle here in Brooklyn."

"It was the unsure fellow who had connected, whose guys nailed the profile, bevel geometry, edge, distal taper, the whole package. They nailed it, and it was beautiful to see, and to hold in my hand. That man's name was Baba."

"Baba-san chose two particular craftsman, shokunin, for the work: one man to forge, and one to grind."

"The man on the hammer was Nakagawa-san, a young shokunin who's already been at his craft 15 years. He's forged more than 10,000 blades and works the steel with a grace and nuance I didn't know was possible. He doesn't drop a stray blow; every stroke lands exactly where he means it, and it's magical to watch a blade appear under his hammer."

"The Osaka Journeyman 240 is a 50/50 convex ground chef's knife, with a 50/50 edge. For the handle I chose the choicest cuts of black walnut I've stashed away over the years, and the collar that mates blade to handle is made from black G10. The handle is tapered slightly back-to-front, and weighted to balance the blade just behind the heel. Weight is right around 225g, blade length is 240mm from heel to tip, and overall length is 385mm."

"For the steel I chose Hitachi Blue #2, known as aogami, for its awesome edge holding ability. These knives are 'cladded', so the aogami, which does the cutting, is sandwiched between two layers of mild carbon steel known as jigane."

"The handle work and all the final tuning and finishing happen here, at my place in Brooklyn. There's a certain feel to the knives that leave my shop that I'm really proud of, an aliveness that only appears after hours in the hand, and only when you've sunk a whole lot of care into the details. That care is in these knives, all the way from Osaka to Brooklyn, and it shows up in the hand. Japanese ethos, American logos."_


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## milkbaby

Pensacola Tiger said:


> A little over five years ago, Ben Chang graciously lent his Cut Brooklyn knife for a pass around. You can read the thread here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7400-Cut-Brooklyn-PA.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if Joel Bukiewicz has learned anything in five years.



Belated thanks for pointing out the old passaround thread. Seems like some people liked it with some qualifications, others not so much. It would be sad if the guy kept doing his thing but didn't raise his game. I would be surprised, but everybody's different.


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## milkbaby

DitmasPork said:


> ...I was able to track down additional info on the Osaka, below are some excerpts (did't want to cut and paste the whole thing):
> _
> "I'll say that what we've made is a limited, numbered run of hand-forged Osaka Journeyman 240's, in the Japanese style with western parameters, from cladded Hitachi Blue #2 steel and black walnut."
> 
> "I asked a handful of these workshops if they'd be interested in doing their own interpretation of a Journeyman 240 blade, that I would finish and handle here in Brooklyn."
> _



Thanks for that, where was this info from? I tried to google with your quotes but nothing now...

Kind of interesting as a collaboration style thing.

Edited to add: I can see how somebody like him would want to do this kind of collaboration, an easy way to have more product to sell without a huge increase in his own workload. I added up his current week's list of knives, all of which sold (seems like they almost always sell out eventually) and the gross sales was $3400. Not sure how many employees he has or what his rent, utilities, business licenses, etcetera cost, but while he's not at the poverty level of a lot of full time knifemakers, he's probably not getting super rich either.


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## DitmasPork

milkbaby said:


> Thanks for that, where was this info from? I tried to google with your quotes but nothing now...
> 
> Kind of interesting as a collaboration style thing.
> 
> Edited to add: I can see how somebody like him would want to do this kind of collaboration, an easy way to have more product to sell without a huge increase in his own workload. I added up his current week's list of knives, all of which sold (seems like they almost always sell out eventually) and the gross sales was $3400. Not sure how many employees he has or what his rent, utilities, business licenses, etcetera cost, but while he's not at the poverty level of a lot of full time knifemakers, he's probably not getting super rich either.



I had emailed Cut for info. He sent me content from the original E-blast announcing the new gyuto line. 

Tough for an artisan to make a living in NYC. The Cut's Gowanas neighborhood has become somewhat gentrified. Rents for street level storefronts there can be 5k to 15k a month, depending on location/size.


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## Noodle Soup

DitmasPork said:


> I had emailed Cut for info. He sent me content from the original E-blast announcing the new gyuto line.
> 
> Tough for an artisan to make a living in NYC. The Cut's Gowanas neighborhood has become somewhat gentrified. Rents for street level storefronts there can be 5k to 15k a month, depending on location/size.



If an artisan can't make it in NYC he/she probably won't make it anyplace else either. The conventional wisdom in custom knife circles is people there have more money than smarts. Everyone wants to sell themselves as the next Bob Kramer to the New Yorker magazine.


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## DitmasPork

Noodle Soup said:


> If an artisan can't make it in NYC he/she probably won't make it anyplace else either. The conventional wisdom in custom knife circles is people there have more money than smarts. Everyone wants to sell themselves as the next Bob Kramer to the New Yorker magazine.



Agreed! Cut's managed to find quite a following of chefs and collectors wanting his knives.


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## alterwisser

milkbaby said:


> Thanks for that, where was this info from? I tried to google with your quotes but nothing now...
> 
> Kind of interesting as a collaboration style thing.
> 
> Edited to add: I can see how somebody like him would want to do this kind of collaboration, an easy way to have more product to sell without a huge increase in his own workload. I added up his current week's list of knives, all of which sold (seems like they almost always sell out eventually) and the gross sales was $3400. Not sure how many employees he has or what his rent, utilities, business licenses, etcetera cost, but while he's not at the poverty level of a lot of full time knifemakers, he's probably not getting super rich either.



When I met him 5 years ago he was wearing a Rolex....

While you never know if that was a gift.... (I once met a store clerk at a clothing store who wore one and owned five - all gifts from ONE happy customer back when he sold Ferraris lol) or if he bought it on credit..... I would say hes not starving.

He has employees and that store sure isnt cheap to rent. The area changed a lot in the last couple of years.

I used his knives when I was at his store back in 2012. And while not amazing, they are fine. I cut a thick, cold carrot with one of his Gyutos and it was effortless, no cracking. Back then the best knife I owned was a Kobayashi Santoku, mind you!

Hes a super nice guy though, at least he was back then. Talked quite a bit to me even though it was obvious I didnt want to buy from him. I was there to see if he can fix a small petty a friend of mine left in knife block without drying it before. He told me he can do it but that Korin would do a better job. I always appreciate that kind of honesty ....


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## alterwisser

Noodle Soup said:


> If an artisan can't make it in NYC he/she probably won't make it anyplace else either. The conventional wisdom in custom knife circles is people there have more money than smarts. Everyone wants to sell themselves as the next Bob Kramer to the New Yorker magazine.



Unless he owns the store or its rent controlled, I dont see how he makes it with employees and earning a living.

He could probably move his store outside of the city to a lower rent area to lower his cost. 

How does handmade in East Rutherford, NJ, sound???


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## DitmasPork

alterwisser said:


> Unless he owns the store or its rent controlled, I dont see how he makes it with employees and earning a living.
> 
> He could probably move his store outside of the city to a lower rent area to lower his cost.
> 
> How does handmade in East Rutherford, NJ, sound???



IMO, it doesn't sound as sexy as Gowanas, Brooklyn.

Anyone who has a storefront within walking distance from a subway, less than 5 stops in from Manhattan, in a happening area greatly benefits with access to chefs, as well as mediaCut's just down the road from Blue Ribbon, Al Di La, and Fonda. A good number of media peeps live in BrooklynI remember seeing a lot of editors on the "F" line when I lived on that line. Higher rent's just the trade off for access.

Unfortunately, only after East Rutherford, NJ goes through some urban regenerationpouring money into the community, attracting some restaurants of note, and more affluence, will "East Rutherford" will have some cache. Wouldn't Edgewater be a good location, near the Japanese mega market; or in the historic area of downtown Jersey City near the path?


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## alterwisser

DitmasPork said:


> IMO, it doesn't sound as sexy as Gowanas, Brooklyn.
> 
> Anyone who has a storefront within walking distance from a subway, less than 5 stops in from Manhattan, in a happening area greatly benefits with access to chefs, as well as mediaCut's just down the road from Blue Ribbon, Al Di La, and Fonda. A good number of media peeps live in BrooklynI remember seeing a lot of editors on the "F" line when I lived on that line. Higher rent's just the trade off for access.
> 
> Unfortunately, only after East Rutherford, NJ goes through some urban regenerationpouring money into the community, attracting some restaurants of note, and more affluence, will "East Rutherford" will have some cache. Wouldn't Edgewater be a good location, near the Japanese mega market; or in the historic area of downtown Jersey City near the path?



Itll never happen in East Rutherford....!

Jersey City might be as expensive as the hippest areas of Brooklyn by now.... its following Hobokens path (the gentrification, not train haha)...

Edgewater is pretty boring if you ask me, but Mitsuwa (the Japanese supermarket) is a gem.... and 5-10 further North you got tons of excellent Korean restaurants. I would say as good as in Flushing ....


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