# Shig. Kasumi DIY



## ma_sha1

Covid-19 project gets a bit crazy sones times 

Here I want to turn the 180 Shig. Nakiri. into 180mm gyuto instead, before I start, what you guys think about the profile?

I like it tall, aiming for 48/49mm heel height. I can make tip higher or lower, pretty much anywhere I want it before I fire up the table saw. 

The question is, should I reduce the heel height to make it more slim looking, more similar to a real Shig. Kasumi ?

For ref., the Fujin has 44 heel height.


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## parbaked

You crazy...in a good way!

Maybe consider bunka...keep more of the original work??


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## Corradobrit1

You must have some serious grinding tools.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy




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## valgard

I can't unsee/unread that


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## Twigg

Just sell it and use the money toward a 180 gyuto.


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## valgard

Twigg said:


> Just sell it and use the money toward a 180 gyuto.


Please, listen to this man


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## DitmasPork

ma_sha1 said:


> Covid-19 project gets a bit crazy sones times
> 
> Here I want to turn the 180 Shig. Nakiri. into 180mm gyuto instead, before I start, what you guys think about the profile?
> 
> I like it tall, aiming for 48/49mm heel height. I can make tip higher or lower, pretty much anywhere I want it before I fire up the table saw.
> 
> The question is, should I reduce the heel height to make it more slim looking, more similar to a real Shig. Kasumi ?
> 
> Fref., the Fujin has 44 heel height.
> 
> View attachment 88306


Please don’t! It’s a waste of a perfectly good nakiri. No idea what your reasoning is.


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## Forty Ounce

Please... Don't do this... Please...


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## Twigg

Chopping it up will not make it a 180 Shigefusa gyuto. It will make it a butchered 180 Shigefusa nakiri. It doesn't matter who does the alteration at this point, the result will be the same.


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## ian

You’re awesome. Don’t listen to the haters. You do you.


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## Forty Ounce

ian said:


> You’re awesome. Don’t listen to the haters. Let you be you.


ENABLER!!


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## valgard

ian said:


> You’re awesome. Don’t listen to the haters. You do you.


Don't encourage this! C'mon, this should be criminal.


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## M1k3

Paging @inferno


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## ian

valgard said:


> Don't encourage this! C'mon, this should be criminal.



I love controversy more than I love Shigefusa.


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## Twigg

This has to be a joke thread to garner shock value.


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## ian

Twigg said:


> This has to be a joke thread to garner shock value.








Shigefusa Santoku re-profile to Funayuki?


I am not using my Shigefusa Santoku because it doesn’t have a usable tip like Gyuto does & it’s too flat. My plan is in the picture below, shown between my 180 & 160mm Gyuto, to repofile it into a 170mm Carter style Funayuki instead. I do like the hefty weight, the taller height, the steel...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





Nobody cared before because it was a santoku.


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## M1k3

Twigg said:


> This has to be a joke thread to garner shock value.


I guess you've never have seen Inferno's work?


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## parbaked

PM sent


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## Twigg

M1k3 said:


> I guess you've never have seen Inferno's work?


The OP author is not Inferno


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## M1k3

And?


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## ian

You know, with some planning you could actually make a Shigefusa Kasumi 180 gyuto and a couple Shigefusa kiridashis too! Triple your money!


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## M1k3

ian said:


> You know, with some planing you could actually make a Shigefusa Kasumi 180 gyuto and a couple Shigefusa kiridashis too! Triple your money!


Sextuple it with some gawdy handles!


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## Twigg

M1k3 said:


> And?


There is no 
"and". If Shigefusa made the Nakiri and someone alters it beyond a restoration, they are purposely destroying the original work and it is then less. In this case the skill level of the person doing the alteration, unless it is sent back to the OEM, does not matter.


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## BillHanna

Seriously though, is Hash tooth here? I’ve seen some real “lets **** sh it up” vibes around here.


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## ian

Twigg said:


> There is no
> "and". If Shigefusa made the Nakiri and someone alters it beyond a restoration, they are purposely destroying the original work and it is then less. In this case the skill level of the person doing the alteration, unless it is sent back to the OEM, does not matter.



Think you’re missing @M1k3’s point, mate. He’s explaining that people sometimes are not joking.

Edit: Sorry, aussies. Am I allowed to say mate? Don’t wanna appropriate your culture.


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## Gregmega

I once cut 30mm off a yo shig with an angle grinder cause no one needs a 270 fight me


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## Twigg

ian said:


> Think you’re missing @M1k3’s point, mate. He’s explaining that people sometimes are not joking.
> 
> Edit: Sorry, aussies. Am I allowed to say mate? Don’t wanna appropriate your culture.


Sh!t, I am sorry @M1k3. I did miss your point. Thanks @ian.


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## slickmamba

why not just use any old nakiri if you're gonna change the grind anyway. If you can reproduce the shig grind with any knife, just go get any decent heat treated nakiri


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## brooksie967

Do it! Shigs don't cut good anyway. The geometry you put on it will inevitably be better than stock anyway!


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## Hassanbensober

Twigg said:


> Just sell it and use the money toward a 180 gyuto.


Shig santoku sure cut it up. Don’t friggin mess the nakiri! Step away from the nakiri


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## Gregmega

Turn it into a santoku. Nakiri are already useless so make it only half useful and you got a win


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## BillHanna

I’ll sell you my Moritaka nakiri for 50USD


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## ma_sha1

I don’t like controversy, but controversy seems to follow me around some how.

Just to put some of your minds at ease, It’s not my first time cutting up a Shig., it’ll be OK, I promise


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## McMan

No.
Just no.


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## Corradobrit1

GLWS


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## Corradobrit1

ian said:


> Think you’re missing @M1k3’s point, mate. He’s explaining that people sometimes are not joking.
> 
> Edit: Sorry, aussies. Am I allowed to say mate? Don’t wanna appropriate your culture.


Thats OK mate, we Brits are not offended. Can't speak for the Aussie contingent tho


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## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> I don’t like controversy, but controversy seems to follow me around some how.
> 
> Just to put some of your minds at ease, It’s not my first time cutting up a Shig., it’ll be OK, I promise


Woah we have a serial Jknife abuser in our midst. Bring me my Shigefusa kitaeji pitchfork.


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## M1k3

ian said:


> Think you’re missing @M1k3’s point, mate. He’s explaining that people sometimes are not joking.
> 
> Edit: Sorry, aussies. Am I allowed to say mate? Don’t wanna appropriate your culture.


Fair dinkum.


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## lemeneid

I’ll do you one better. I’m gonna buy 2 Shig nakiris and convert them into a Chuka bocho. Instant super unicorn


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## Jville

***  ... I am simatanously very intrigued and slightly disturbed. I really like shig nakiris, but I still find this project refreshing in some way. The op has balls for sure. See what all you nakiri haters made him do . Nah, he beats to his own , rock man. Let's see what you can create.


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## zizirex

Go for it!!! this will be a nice project!!


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## DitmasPork

ma_sha1 said:


> I don’t like controversy, but controversy seems to follow me around some how.
> 
> Just to put some of your minds at ease, It’s not my first time cutting up a Shig., it’ll be OK, I promise


What was the other Shig you altered? Got pics?


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## ma_sha1

Jville said:


> ***  ... I am simatanously very intrigued and slightly disturbed. I really like shig nakiris, but I still find this project refreshing in some way. The op has balls for sure. See what all you nakiri haters made him do . Nah, he beats to his own , rock man. Let's see what you can create.



Thanks,

I don’t use Nakiri, bought this knife for the sole purpose of making my own 180 Shig. Kasumi


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## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> What was the other Shig you altered? Got pics?


Yo Shig kitaeji gyuto he converted to a Nakiri?


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## SHOWERDOOKIE

Corradobrit1 said:


> Yo Shig kitaeji gyuto he converted to a Nakiri?



Shyamalan style twist: the nakiri pictured was a 270 gyuto last week


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## ma_sha1

DitmasPork said:


> What was the other Shig you altered? Got pics?



The other one I did earlier this year was 165mm Shig Santoku KU to Shig. Funayuki Nashiji. The KU was a pig, had to thin it way down to cut well.


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## DitmasPork

ma_sha1 said:


> The other one I did earlier this year was 165mm Shig Santoku KU to Shig. Funayuki Nashiji.
> 
> View attachment 88334



TBH, that’s not a bad looking knife, good skills you have! However, I would hesitate to ever call that a Shig—knife has been altered to far from what the blacksmith intended to be called a Shig. I’d consider that a ‘Ma_Sha1 Knife.’


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## Jville

DitmasPork said:


> TBH, that’s not a bad looking knife, good skills you have! However, I would hesitate to ever call that a Shig—knife has been altered to far from what the blacksmith intended to be called a Shig. I’d consider that a ‘Ma_Sha1 Knife.’


Yup, every knife maker has to get there steel from somewhere.


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## juice

ian said:


> Edit: Sorry, aussies. Am I allowed to say mate? Don’t wanna appropriate your culture.


Perfectly fair usage in the context above.


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## Barclid

ma_sha1 said:


> The other one I did earlier this year was 165mm Shig Santoku KU to Shig. Funayuki Nashiji. The KU was a pig, had to thin it way down to cut well.
> 
> View attachment 88334


That was... definitely not an improvement.


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## Luftmensch

If you want to get rid of it... i'll take it off your hands for a fair price.

Im with the camp in this thread that wonders why you would do it to a Shig? I am all for DIY fun... but surely you could have just as much fun using a generic, cheaper nakiri


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## _THS_

Barclid said:


> That was... definitely not an improvement.


Let's not judge improvements after butchering a Togashi honyaki


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## lemeneid

_THS_ said:


> Let's not judge improvements after butchering a Togashi honyaki


That makes me want to see someone convert a Kato dammy into a santoku or a nakiri


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## _THS_

lemeneid said:


> That makes me want to see someone convert a Kato dammy into a santoku or a nakiri


Yess, let's have a "I've got money to ruin a expensive knife and balls to share it online" sh*tshow


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## lemeneid

_THS_ said:


> Yess, let's have a "I've got money to ruin a expensive knife and balls to share it online" sh*tshow


Winner would be the guy who turns a real Kramer into a bread knife


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## Badgertooth

ma_sha1 said:


> The other one I did earlier this year was 165mm Shig Santoku KU to Shig. Funayuki Nashiji. The KU was a pig, had to thin it way down to cut well.
> 
> View attachment 88334


Oh. Right. 
For a minute there I thought you had no idea what you were doing.


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## _THS_

lemeneid said:


> Winner would be the guy who turns a real Kramer into a bread knife


With a plasma cutter


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## Barclid

_THS_ said:


> Let's not judge improvements after butchering a Togashi honyaki


Coming from the guy who convexed the Hira of a Genkai Usuba, that means nothing to me.


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## _THS_

Barclid said:


> Coming from the guy who convexed the Hira of a Genkai Usuba, that means nothing to me.


Maybe wait till the day you'll do one before talking


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## _THS_

Barclid said:


> Coming from the guy who convexed the Hira of a Genkai Usuba, that means nothing to me.


Beside, my "fail" is not an unusable piece of crap, but a perfectly fine knife


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## tchan001

Send it to Dalman and have him turn it into a warikomi. Then you'll have a unique east-west fusion knife.


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## Barclid

_THS_ said:


> Maybe wait till the day you'll do one before talking


Oh, now you want to be sensitive? Got it.


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## Barclid

_THS_ said:


> Beside, my "fail" is not an unusable piece of crap, but a perfectly fine knife


And I'm sorry, what that I did is an unusable piece of crap?


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## M1k3

Hmm.


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## Gregmega

_THS_ said:


> Yess, let's have a "I've got money to ruin a expensive knife and balls to share it online" sh*tshow


Look no further than Chucky from tosho and his brilliant job on that konos togo reigo.


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## _THS_

Gregmega said:


> Look no further than Chucky from tosho and his brilliant job on a konos togo reigo.


Those are state of art


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## Panamapeet

I just bought 100 liters of eye bleach, if anyone needs some hit me up


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## bryan03

How do you plan to cut that without touching the Ht ? What tool do you have ?
how do you plan to make a proper distal at spine , the ku Shig have a pretty regular thickness at spine. you are going to grind the entire blade To make something usabl. 
better to start your own knife with a blank and Find someone for Ht.
right here you are going to turn a ugly knife into a dead knife unusable.


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## danemonji

I would ask you all what makes a knife a shigefusa? The autograph? Or the whole package?
When we radically change the profile or geometry of a knife, my opinion is that knife stops being the original maker's knife right there and then; and becomes John Doe's knife with a master's signature on it. 
Still everyone is free to do what they choose with their knife but just don't call it a shigefusa anymore.


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## ma_sha1

bryan03 said:


> How do you plan to cut that without touching the Ht ? What tool do you have ?
> how do you plan to make a proper distal at spine , the ku Shig have a pretty regular thickness at spine



I am cutting with my Table saw & a 10” metal cutting wheel. The key to grind a knife after HT is to take it slow, a slow speed grinder, a bucket full of water, & COVID-19 “I am not going anywhere” patience.

This Shig. already has a killer distal taper, no need to worry about that. I just need thinning on steroids.


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## Luftmensch

bryan03 said:


> better to start your own knife with a blank and Find someone for Ht.



This sounds like pretty good advice to me!


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## Jville

ma_sha1 said:


> I am cutting with my Table saw & a 10” metal cutting wheel. The key to grind a knife after HT is to take it slow, a slow speed grinder, a bucket full of water, & COVID-19 “I am not going anywhere” patience.
> 
> This Shig. already has a killer distal taper, no need to worry about that. I just need thinning on steroids. View attachment 88358


You shouldn't of posted this. This thread was one of those things you know is wrong, but just seems fun so you ignore your sensibility to enjoy yourself. And for whatever reason I just came to my senses with this shot. Leave that knife alone and buy a blank and start creating something. Is that nakiri the one David was selling on Togo?


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## Badgertooth

ma_sha1 said:


> I am cutting with my Table saw & a 10” metal cutting wheel. The key to grind a knife after HT is to take it slow, a slow speed grinder, a bucket full of water, & COVID-19 “I am not going anywhere” patience.
> 
> This Shig. already has a killer distal taper, no need to worry about that. I just need thinning on steroids. View attachment 88358




Oh. Right.

For a minute I thought Bryan Raquin knew more about knifemaking than you.


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## labor of love

If this whole project falls apart (I do have confidence in you) just convert it into a Shig 180mm petty.


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## David7777777777

Blah. There nothing for the trolls to eat.


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## tchan001

I just hope we don't see this masterpiece back on BST later on as a Shig gyuto slightly tuned up by the user.


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## Matus

This is a one expensive and labor intensive way to troll this forum.


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## ma_sha1

David7777777777 said:


> That is The absolute worst thing I've seen I get a long time. Especially since he bought it from me and there were at least two other people who would have given it a proper home instead this garbage.
> 
> I really wish he hadn't bought that from me.
> Grinders and table saws are you kidding me?!?
> 
> That's really unbelievable.
> 
> he is right that knife has an amazing distal taper and grind.
> 
> And I made every effort to make sure that it didn't get screwed up and now this guy is going to completely ruin the knife no matter how slow you go you're going to screw up the heat treat. And you don't even know where the core steel ends exactly because towards the end of the knife it might not run all the way to the spine......
> 
> Had I known it was going to get butchered
> I definitely would have sold to someone else who would have appreciated it.
> 
> That is just so so disappointing.
> If you wanted a shigefusa santoku they're so easy to buy if you just spend the money and the time to actually hunt one down or build a relationship with the people on the forums.
> 
> Personally I'm never going to sell to this guy again.



I don’t appreciate your negativity as a seller. In fact, you should consider taking some responsibility!

After all, you are the one who butchered the Shig Nakiri grind & removed the KU, & put on a hideous finish in the first place.

Fine, don’t worry, I will never buy a knife that’s been altered by you again.


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## tchan001

Lewis Carroll — '_Curiouser and curiouser_!” Cried Alice


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## ian

David7777777777 said:


> That is The absolute worst thing I've seen I get a long time. Especially since he bought it from me and there were at least two other people who would have given it a proper home instead this garbage.
> 
> I really wish he hadn't bought that from me.
> Grinders and table saws are you kidding me?!?
> 
> That's really unbelievable.
> 
> he is right that knife has an amazing distal taper and grind.
> 
> And I made every effort to make sure that it didn't get screwed up and now this guy is going to completely ruin the knife no matter how slow you go you're going to screw up the heat treat. And you don't even know where the core steel ends exactly because towards the end of the knife it might not run all the way to the spine......
> 
> Had I known it was going to get butchered
> I definitely would have sold to someone else who would have appreciated it.
> 
> That is just so so disappointing.
> If you wanted a shigefusa santoku they're so easy to buy if you just spend the money and the time to actually hunt one down or build a relationship with the people on the forums.
> 
> Personally I'm never going to sell to this guy again.





tchan001 said:


> I just hope we don't see this masterpiece back on BST later on as a Shig gyuto slightly tuned up by the user.



Personally I don’t care what someone does to a knife I sell them. And fwiw, @ma_sha1 was very upfront about all the changes he did to the formerly Shigefusa santoku that he turned into a Shigemasha funayuki when he put it on BST.

Seems like a lot of righteous anger here... A knife may be destroyed in the process, but if that happens, what’s it to you? Let the man destroy a Shig if he wants to (especially one where the grind has already been significantly altered) or optimistically turn it into another knife. 

Personally, I’d just go look for a knife blank, but whatever. If you manage to preserve the heat treat, you’ll still have that good Shig steel, at least...


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## ian

Back on topic: if you’re going to do it, @ma_sha1, I’d keep it tall. Might as well, right, if you like it that way? Don’t try to copy a normal 180 Shig gyuto. And then if you **** up the HT near the edge, you can try again...


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## Matus

Some people may indeed seem to get pushed outside their comfort zone by this project, though I would hope it does not boil down to hate. 

OP, before you start just make sure it is not a warikomi, otherwise you might end up with a tiny santoku


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## Robert Lavacca

Nakiri has really grown on me lately. I’m beginning to really enjoy them. I don’t know why someone would take the KU off on this knife. That’s a beautiful nakiri with awesome distal. I would just hunt for other shigs and keep the nakiri for home use. They are fun man. You could take that nakiri and totally get it back in nice shape again. Since the KU was taken off I would make this a nice kasumi project for covid.


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## ian

Robert Lavacca said:


> Nakiri has really grown on me lately. I’m beginning to really enjoy them. I don’t know why someone would take the KU off on this knife. That’s a beautiful nakiri with awesome distal. I would just hunt for other shigs and keep the nakiri for home use. They are fun man. You could take that nakiri and totally get it back in nice shape again. Since the KU was taken off I would make this a nice kasumi project for covid.



It’s true, optimizing the grind and appearance of the nakiri would also be a fun project, no?


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## brooksie967

Lots of butthurt but I love it. Making me laugh while drinking my morning coffee. 

Let the man do what he wants


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## ma_sha1

Ok, to put the controversy to rest, I am just gonna say, the cut is done, astalavista Nakiri, it’s over, let it go.

Welcome to the new beginning of the Baby Gyuto formerly known as Shig. Nakiri, She’ll be born with love . Don’t you dare to call it ugly, it’s my baby . 

A few things to clarify:

1, the tip is left blunt on purpose until the last step. 

2, I discovered that the beautiful spine taper is FAKE! It does not carry to below the spine, it’s a Non Functional taper, the biggest shocker to me about this knife so far, as a result, the front is Thick, as non of the beautiful taper carried downwards towards the edge .

3, Table saw with the big 10” wheel removed heat much better than belt grinder, it barely got heat up during my cut before my frequent cold water dips. 

4, I decided to compromise between my desired 48mm tall heel & JNS 180 Shig. Kasumi 44mm heel, so I aimed for 46mm heel height. Right now it’s at 47mm.

The goal is to still look like traditional 180mm Shig. Kasumi, just a little bit higher heel to make me happy. 

Picture after cut:
(Table saw only so far, not seen the belt grinder yet)


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## Luftmensch

Robert Lavacca said:


> Since the KU was taken off I would make this a nice kasumi project for covid.



This is also fantastic advice  

(and personally what I would do...)


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## brooksie967

ma_sha1 said:


> Ok, to put the controversy to rest, I am just gonna say, the cut is done, astalavista Nakiri, it’s over, let it go.
> 
> Welcome to the new beginning of the Baby Gyuto formerly known as Shig. Nakiri, She’ll be born with love ❤. Don’t you dare to call it ugly, it’s my baby .
> 
> A few things to clarify:
> 
> 1, the tip is left blunt on purpose until the last step.
> 
> 2, I discovered that the beautiful spine taper is FAKE! It does not carry to below the spine, it’s a Non Functional taper, the biggest shocker to me about this knife so far, as a result, the front is Thick, as non of the beautiful taper carried downwards towards the edge .
> 
> 3, Table saw with the big 10” wheel removed heat much better than belt grinder, it barely got heat up during my cut before my frequent cold water dips.
> 
> 4, I decided to compromise between my desired 48mm tall heel & JNS 180 Shig. Kasumi 44mm heel, so I aimed for 46mm heel height. Right now it’s at 47mm.
> 
> The goal is to still look like traditional 180mm Shig. Kasumi, just a little bit higher heel to make me happy.
> 
> Picture after cut:
> (Table saw only so far, not seen the belt grinder yet)
> View attachment 88374


Looks better already


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## ian

Heh, happy grinding!


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## bryan03




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## DitmasPork

ma_sha1 said:


> Ok, to put the controversy to rest, I am just gonna say, the cut is done, astalavista Nakiri, it’s over, let it go.
> 
> Welcome to the new beginning of the Baby Gyuto formerly known as Shig. Nakiri, She’ll be born with love ❤. Don’t you dare to call it ugly, it’s my baby .
> 
> A few things to clarify:
> 
> 1, the tip is left blunt on purpose until the last step.
> 
> 2, I discovered that the beautiful spine taper is FAKE! It does not carry to below the spine, it’s a Non Functional taper, the biggest shocker to me about this knife so far, as a result, the front is Thick, as non of the beautiful taper carried downwards towards the edge .
> 
> 3, Table saw with the big 10” wheel removed heat much better than belt grinder, it barely got heat up during my cut before my frequent cold water dips.
> 
> 4, I decided to compromise between my desired 48mm tall heel & JNS 180 Shig. Kasumi 44mm heel, so I aimed for 46mm heel height. Right now it’s at 47mm.
> 
> The goal is to still look like traditional 180mm Shig. Kasumi, just a little bit higher heel to make me happy.
> 
> Picture after cut:
> (Table saw only so far, not seen the belt grinder yet)
> View attachment 88374



Kudos to you for doing for carrying out the project!

At the end of day, it's just a tool. Just a piece of metal—nothing inherently sacred.

Reminds me of a friend of mine who when to a French bistrot, ordered steak tatare which was made table side—then had the waiter take is to the kitchen to be cooked on the griddle medium-well, all because he could. Swore it was the best burger he's eaten.

Best of luck finishing the project.


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## bryan03

ma_sha1 said:


> 2, I discovered that the beautiful spine taper is FAKE! It does not carry to below the spine, it’s a Non Functional taper, the biggest shocker to me about this knife so far, as a result, the front is Thick, as non of the beautiful taper carried downwards towards the edge .
> 
> 3, Table saw with the big 10” wheel removed heat much better than belt grinder, it barely got heat up during my cut before my frequent cold water dips.




all this is a pure joke.
Good luck .


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## David7777777777

ma_sha1 said:


> I don’t appreciate your negativity as a seller. In fact, you should consider taking some responsibility!
> 
> After all, you are the one who butchered the Shig Nakiri grind & removed the KU, & put on a hideous finish in the first place.
> 
> Fine, don’t worry, I will never buy a knife that’s been altered by you again.



The grind was fine, distal taper was fine. 
The only thing was the KU finished had to come off after doing a bunch of tomatoes because I'm not a home cook and I actually use this. 

I had hoped and priced it so that somebody could try one of these out that wouldn't normally pick one up. 
I think I was pretty clear about everything when we talked I think and I was pretty clear when I posted it and why I posted it at that price. 

But in the end it's all yours 
and best of luck to you.


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## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> Kudos to you for doing for carrying out the project!
> 
> At the end of day, it's just a tool. Just a piece of metal—nothing inherently sacred.
> 
> 
> Best of luck finishing the project.


Exactly. I've read so many people saying how bad Ku Shig's are, it would seem any changes to profile and grind are an upgrade. Afterall its not like Ma_Sha is butchering a kitaeji blade


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## DitmasPork

@ma_sha1 What's your opinion on the potential valuation on the finished knife? Honest question, since I make my living selling handmade objects.

I automatically try to figure out a price tag on things—just how my mind works.

With that knife: value of the Shig Nakiri in it's original state + labor time and work/skill involved transforming the knife is one pricing approach. Big question for me is whether there will be an increase or valuation of what the Shig nakiri originally cost? Does the uniqueness of a knife essentially made by two people (you + Shig) increase value?


----------



## Hassanbensober

I retract my negativity initially. I would have responded differently if I knew the knife was already altered prior it wasn’t made quite clear in Op


----------



## Matus

Since there is still time - try to get a bit of an angle between the flat spot and spine. Gyuto and nakiri have more differences that just one being square.


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> @ma_sha1 What's your opinion on the potential valuation on the finished knife? Honest question, since I make my living selling handmade objects.
> 
> I automatically try to figure out a price tag on things—just how my mind works.
> 
> With that knife: value of the Shig Nakiri in it's original state + labor time and work/skill involved transforming the knife is one pricing approach. Big question for me is whether there will be an increase or valuation of what the Shig nakiri originally cost? Does the uniqueness of a knife essentially made by two people (you + Shig) increase value?


If Banksy painted a moustache on the Mona Lisa would the value increase? Me thinks not. Too many potential probs like screwed up HT to make the final product more valuable IMO.


----------



## Matus

The value lies with the buyer/market. But I am not being too optimistic in this case. No sarcasm intended.


----------



## ian

Unless you’re a professional knifemaker or sharpener, value should go down anytime you remove steel. That’s at least how I price my knives.


----------



## ma_sha1

I agree, I don’t anticipate value increase because the value is in the brand. The brand is built with years of making good knives, especially if it appeals to “collectors”.

Don’t expect making a living altering Shig., unless you have built up a brand as strong or stronger. If Maumasi alters a Shig., it’ll increase in value I am sure.

However, if the finished knife looks as good as Shig Kasumi but cuts better, it could use Kasumi price point for ref, selling less than Kasumi but more than KU.


----------



## DitmasPork

Corradobrit1 said:


> If Banksy painted a moustache on the Mona Lisa would the value increase? Me thinks not. Too many potential probs like screwed up HT to make the final product more valuable IMO.



With Banksy, value is in the authorship, as well as location. Yes, Banksy working over the Mona Lisa would devalue the work, which is valued at 850 million. However, a Banksy on a building's wall that cost maybe 10k to construct, might fetch millions. 

Hypothetically, if TF cut-down, re-worked, and transformed a Shig Nakiri into a gyuto—it would be worth more than what the Shig's original price was. IMO.


----------



## NO ChoP!

Eh, I've turned many a santoku into a bunka or funyuki, or given a gyuto a k-tip. 

36 grit belts remove metal super fast. It's actually the higher grit finishing belts that can screw up HT.

The OP may not have $1000+ to buy a kitaeji Shig gyuto, but has a few hundred to play with this nakiri, get to spend time doing something he likes, make something that's totally unique; I get it. U do U.


----------



## ma_sha1

Before I move on to grinding stage, I want to leave two “before” photos for ref.

Spine shot: 
Once I grind down the top of the front half of the spine, the killer Shig. Spine taper is gone. Sadly, the beauty of Shig. Nakiri distal taper is only skin deep. 







The bottom of the blade edge shot:
Right now the “edge” it’s as thick as the spine, minimal vertical taper. It needs serious stock removal, this is not something one can do with whetstones.


----------



## NO ChoP!

Also, setting the profile is the easy part. Replicated a useable, thin grind with nuanced convexing takes skill.


----------



## Matus

I think you might be missing the point of vertical/transversal distal taper. Its main point is to make the knife cut as the maker intended (and weight and weight distribution is part of that), not to look cool or just "be there". Shigs are pretty much workhorse knives so this "lack of vertical taper" makes a lot of sense. There are even knives where the blades are forged/ground thinner at the spine than 10 mm down from it.


----------



## ian

ma_sha1 said:


> Before I move on to grinding stage, I want to leave two “before” photos for ref.
> 
> Spine shot:
> Once I grind down the top of the front half of the spine, the killer Shig. Spine taper is gone. Sadly, the beauty of Shig. Nakiri distal taper is only skin deep.
> 
> View attachment 88376
> 
> 
> The bottom of the blade edge shot:
> Right now the “edge” it’s as thick as the spine, minimal vertical taper. It needs serious stock removal, this is not something one can do with whetstones.
> 
> View attachment 88377



Oh, oh! Could you maybe invert the knife and transform the spine into the edge?


----------



## ian

Matus said:


> I think you might be missing the point of vertical/transversal distal taper. Its main point is to make the knife cut as the maker intended (and weight and weight distribution is part of that), not to look cool or just "be there". Shigs are pretty much workhorse knives so this "lack of vertical taper" makes a lot of sense. There are even knives where the blades are forged/ground thinner at the spine than 10 mm down from it.



Yea. Are there many nakiris that have a ton of distal taper? (That is, distal taper as measured closer to the edge rather than on the spine.) Seems like a nakiri would cut in a more predictable way with more uniform geometry, maybe a very slight taper. Anyway, makes more sense to me that way. It’s a good point about taking off some metal near the spine to change the balance.


----------



## DitmasPork

Matus said:


> I think you might be missing the point of vertical/transversal distal taper. Its main point is to make the knife cut as the maker intended (and weight and weight distribution is part of that), not to look cool or just "be there". Shigs are pretty much workhorse knives so this "lack of vertical taper" makes a lot of sense. There are even knives where the blades are forged/ground thinner at the spine than 10 mm down from it.



IMO, I feel that @ma_sha1 should disregard what the original maker (Shig) had intended and focus on what he (Ma Sha) wants to achieve with this re-visioning of the Shig nakiri. Shig is outta the picture—and should be, for this project—it's all in Ma Sha's hands now. It would be a lose-lose approach trying to replicate Shig, and probably not the pure objective of Ma Sha.


----------



## Matus

point taken


----------



## David7777777777

I get it you totally want to be creative or whatever you know.... projects and stuff. totally get that. 
I understand.
I'm 100% all in now. 

Let's let's forget about everything before, there was a transaction you were happy and I was unhappy then you had to be unhappy to make sure that other people were happy it's whatever.
Forget all of that because now I'm on your team positive and supportive. 

As I fevered supporter if I can make a suggestion:
You really should look at taking knife-making classes from a professional. 
Obviously you want to do that kind of thing.. At least I think you do as far as I can tell?

May as well put some focus on it.
take that money that you would spend on buying a knife and buying all the crap to cut it up and regrind it and do whatever ...
You could be still do the same stuff but actually making your own stuff. 
No probably not better than a stock shigefusa...
But you actually could execute some of your ideas probably easier and you might actually come up with some awesome stuff. 

It's it's kind of what you're trying to do anyways. 
There's a lot of really great stock removal knife classes out there. There's a ton of raw steel that's already heat treated. I mean you literally can buy bars of steel that are used by a lot of popular blacksmiths in Japan.
create your own thing from start to finish.
You obviously have the bug to create or destroy. Maybe both at the same time the human centipede of knife grindage and.....
it's not my place anymore to say anything other than just be supportive because I really think that if you take this to the next level who knows what will happen. 
I know for a fact I don't have it in me take the leap of faith and buy a table saw and whatever all the other supplies. And then find the perfect knife that I can turn into my perfect knife

cutting it down and grinding it out and grinding it more. I know I'm weak as a person obviously it's been shown in people were kind enough to let me know that. There's a lot of us that don't have "it". 
Maybe maybe I'm being sarcastic maybe I'm just trying to make people laugh a little bit but at the end of the day I am trying to be positive because modifying knives now but I know for a fact you're going to dig deeper so you may as well just take the classes now buddy. 
just rip the bandaid off. 
On on the other hand I think I'm starting to see the light and the concept of it and I'm also interested to see what happens if you go to the other side of that. 
Kick it up a notch and start buying stuff in the 1k range. I think about it, and it might actually be cool for all of us to see what happens. 

It's definitely an interesting thread I so regret having any part of this at all it's like the most disappointing part of my entire life aside from being born.


----------



## ian

David7777777777 said:


> I get it you totally want to be creative or whatever you know.... projects and stuff. totally get that.
> I understand.
> I'm 100% all in now.
> 
> Let's let's forget about everything before, there was a transaction you were happy and I was unhappy then you had to be unhappy to make sure that other people were happy it's whatever.
> Forget all of that because now I'm on your team positive and supportive.
> 
> As I fevered supporter if I can make a suggestion:
> You really should look at taking knife-making classes from a professional.
> Obviously you want to do that kind of thing.. At least I think you do as far as I can tell?
> 
> May as well put some focus on it.
> take that money that you would spend on buying a knife and buying all the crap to cut it up and regrind it and do whatever ...
> You could be still do the same stuff but actually making your own stuff.
> No probably not better than a stock shigefusa...
> But you actually could execute some of your ideas probably easier and you might actually come up with some awesome stuff.
> 
> It's it's kind of what you're trying to do anyways.
> There's a lot of really great stock removal knife classes out there. There's a ton of raw steel that's already heat treated. I mean you literally can buy bars of steel that are used by a lot of popular blacksmiths in Japan.
> create your own thing from start to finish.
> You obviously have the bug to create or destroy. Maybe both at the same time the human centipede of knife grindage and.....
> it's not my place anymore to say anything other than just be supportive because I really think that if you take this to the next level who knows what will happen.
> I know for a fact I don't have it in me take the leap of faith and buy a table saw and whatever all the other supplies. And then find the perfect knife that I can turn into my perfect knife
> 
> cutting it down and grinding it out and grinding it more. I know I'm weak as a person obviously it's been shown in people were kind enough to let me know that. There's a lot of us that don't have "it".
> Maybe maybe I'm being sarcastic maybe I'm just trying to make people laugh a little bit but at the end of the day I am trying to be positive because modifying knives now but I know for a fact you're going to dig deeper so you may as well just take the classes now buddy.
> just rip the bandaid off.
> On on the other hand I think I'm starting to see the light and the concept of it and I'm also interested to see what happens if you go to the other side of that.
> Kick it up a notch and start buying stuff in the 1k range. I think about it, and it might actually be cool for all of us to see what happens.
> 
> It's definitely an interesting thread I so regret having any part of this at all it's like the most disappointing part of my entire life aside from being born.



Woah, dude.


----------



## Boynutman

Sounds like there is still some excess metal on the blade, right? While you're at it, how about hammering it into a 210?


----------



## Jville

OP, I'm not totally sure understand what you are referring to on the fake taper, but I think I do. If it is like the one I had, the knife distal tapered. But the knife got thinner towards towards the spine than it did towards the middle (height not length) of the blade. That made it sort of concave towards the spine that helps in food release. It definitely wasn't a fake taper and i doubt yours had a fake taper. It should of been pretty easy to tell that is what was happening. Mine had a phenomenal grind and cut really well.


----------



## Luftmensch

ian said:


> Woah, dude.



It is true... It is just a damned knife (honestly!). There is nothing intrinsically sacred about it. If it had been purchased through a retailer, who cares? @ma_sha1 can spend his money how he likes and do what he wants to his own knives! But I don't really see what benefit is gained by doing this to a shig? I am also a huge fan of DIY... so I do have a morbid fascination with how this will go! (@ma_sha1: now that you have jumped in head-first, good luck!).

But... I feel for @David7777777777. The backstory doesn't look like a case of 'I got bored of this knife and wanted to rotate out'. I dont think it would be pleasant selling something that you may have had to work hard to save up for, gained an emotional attachment to and not sold in other circumstances. Given the state of the non-original finish, the sale price was a fair opportunity for someone to try a shig a lower entry price. In that scenario, as the seller, you might want to pass it onto another person who wanted to appreciate it for what it is - you may even discount it further as a sign of good will and to get it moving.


Anyway... I have this 180mm gyuto... I've always wanted to try a 180mm nakiri... perhaps @ma_sha1 could mail me the bits that were cut off. I could then weld them to my gyuto and get a nakiri


----------



## ma_sha1

David7777777777 said:


> I get it you totally want to be creative or whatever you know.... projects and stuff. totally get that.
> I understand.
> I'm 100% all in now.
> 
> Let's let's forget about everything before, there was a transaction you were happy and I was unhappy then you had to be unhappy to make sure that other people were happy it's whatever.
> Forget all of that because now I'm on your team positive and supportive.
> 
> As I fevered supporter if I can make a suggestion:
> You really should look at taking knife-making classes from a professional.
> Obviously you want to do that kind of thing.. At least I think you do as far as I can tell?
> 
> May as well put some focus on it.
> take that money that you would spend on buying a knife and buying all the crap to cut it up and regrind it and do whatever ...
> You could be still do the same stuff but actually making your own stuff.
> No probably not better than a stock shigefusa...
> But you actually could execute some of your ideas probably easier and you might actually come up with some awesome stuff.
> 
> It's it's kind of what you're trying to do anyways.
> There's a lot of really great stock removal knife classes out there. There's a ton of raw steel that's already heat treated. I mean you literally can buy bars of steel that are used by a lot of popular blacksmiths in Japan.
> create your own thing from start to finish.
> You obviously have the bug to create or destroy. Maybe both at the same time the human centipede of knife grindage and.....
> it's not my place anymore to say anything other than just be supportive because I really think that if you take this to the next level who knows what will happen.
> I know for a fact I don't have it in me take the leap of faith and buy a table saw and whatever all the other supplies. And then find the perfect knife that I can turn into my perfect knife
> 
> cutting it down and grinding it out and grinding it more. I know I'm weak as a person obviously it's been shown in people were kind enough to let me know that. There's a lot of us that don't have "it".
> Maybe maybe I'm being sarcastic maybe I'm just trying to make people laugh a little bit but at the end of the day I am trying to be positive because modifying knives now but I know for a fact you're going to dig deeper so you may as well just take the classes now buddy.
> just rip the bandaid off.
> On on the other hand I think I'm starting to see the light and the concept of it and I'm also interested to see what happens if you go to the other side of that.
> Kick it up a notch and start buying stuff in the 1k range. I think about it, and it might actually be cool for all of us to see what happens.
> 
> It's definitely an interesting thread I so regret having any part of this at all it's like the most disappointing part of my entire life aside from being born.



Hi David,

Thanks very much for being the bigger person! It’s all good, KKF friends again 

Thanks for your kind suggestions. To me, this is just a hobby & I follow two very simple principles for my hobbies:

1, Financially neutral. Don’t don’t steal from family finance, & don’t try to make a living, stay within a fixed budget.

2, Have fun, let it be an outlet of my creativity. Share the fun, take suggestions, but ignore haters. 

At the end of the day, I am doing it for myself, no one else. I am having the most joy, & learning the most while I am building something myself. Although I learned a lot from reading the forum, it can never substitute doing it. 

Thanks for your suggestions, but like my previous hobbies, I won’t take it to the next level beyond DIY, or take lessens to pursuit it as a profession. It’ll just turn it into a job for me, & job is the very thing I am trying to escape being in a hobby.


----------



## DoubleJJ

@Luftmensch It would be the same concept in my opinion. Which no one cares about.


----------



## Luftmensch

DoubleJJ said:


> It would be the same concept



Which concept? Making a nakiri from a gyuto? I figure additive manufacturing would be a good compliment to the subtractive manufacturing process in this thread... 



DoubleJJ said:


> in my opinion. Which no one cares about.



Hey now, there guy! You have intrinsic value as a person!


----------



## DoubleJJ

Hey thanks! Glad to know someone cares! I was feeling so bad about myself I was just about to chop up all my knives and turn them into toothpicks. Or... using your concept... weld them all together for one massive broadsword!


----------



## ma_sha1

Allow me to introduce the grinder that I am using. I have three inexpensive grinders. I am not using my 1x30, it’s too fast, very likely to mess up. I am not using my mouse sander that I used in the last Shig. Mod, too slow, takes forever.

I am using my 3rd grinder, the 3x21. This grinder has variable speed, & I am using the lowest speed. This is never recommended for knife making by professionals, too slow for anyone trying to make a living, but to me it’s perfect. Because its slow, it doesn’t heat up & it’s much less likely to mess up when you remove steel slowly. 

To further avoid Knife slip & messing up, I put two clamps on top of it as knife stopper.


----------



## ian

Is the knife held at a fixed angle above? Is it easy to adjust for convexing? I always like your setup.


----------



## ma_sha1

ian said:


> Is the knife held at a fixed angle above? Is it easy to adjust for convexing? I always like your setup.



Thanks,

Not fixed angle. Convexing is achieved by rocking the blade slightly while sanding. Similar to the concept of one of Murray Cutter’s videos where he demonstrated using belt sander for convex grind by rocking while grinding.

The main difference is speed, the slower speed here allows much better control, much less likely to mess up or heat-up than what he used. I am two hours in, only removed 1mm stock so far, still long way to go. Cutter would have finished the knife by now.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Looking good so far


----------



## Matus

That grind looks pretty impressive so far - are you 'riding' on the existing taper or did you thin it towards the tip before taping it up? I am asking since you mentioned that there was no distal taper in those parts and here I see bevel of basically constant width along the whole blade.


----------



## ma_sha1

Matus said:


> That grind looks pretty impressive so far - are you 'riding' on the existing taper or did you thin it towards the tip before taping it up? I am asking since you mentioned that there was no distal taper in those parts and here I see bevel of basically constant width along the whole blade.



Thanks Matus,

There’s no existing taper to ride on. I am relying on the feedback of the contact, scratch pattern review as well as the “knife stop” to end the grinding boundary. 

Yes, I started on the edge first. Due to the slow grind, it’s easier to start on the edge end, review where the scratch pattern ends, push the grind up gradually. So far I am happy with the progress, not so much of my grinding skills really, it’s more of the slow grind being forgiving & allows one to figure out the boundary slowly without going too far.


----------



## ma_sha1

This is where I left it last night, after total of 4 hours of slow grinding @ 60grit, the core steel finally showed up.


----------



## tchan001

Good luck with the project and hope you end up with an awesome gyuto. It seems many people grind their TF to achieve the perfect knife they want. Guess it's similar in your case to get the perfect knife you want. The decision of the owner has been made and plans have proceeded accordingly. Looking forward to your updates as you enjoy the process.


----------



## ma_sha1

tchan001 said:


> Good luck with the project and hope you end up with an awesome gyuto. It seems many people grind their TF to achieve the perfect knife they want. Guess it's similar in your case to get the perfect knife you want. The decision of the owner has been made and plans have proceeded accordingly. Looking forward to your updates as you enjoy the process.



Thanks, that’s a really good way to put it! 
Although I do understand TF alterations are much more acceptable than Shig., which has almost a cult status.


----------



## labor of love

>shigefusa knives have terrible grinds lol
>OMG don’t do that you’re going to ruin the grind!

Pick one


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> >*KU *shigefusa knives have terrible grinds lol
> >OMG don’t do that you’re going to ruin the grind!
> 
> Pick one


FIFY


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> FIFY


I agree w that FIFY.

However many don’t.


----------



## valgard

Corradobrit1 said:


> FIFY


I disagree, the 180 nakiri I got had better grind OOTB than n-2 kitaeji and Kasumi Shigs, and definitely better than a whole lot other knives I have tried (cough mazaki*s* cough)


----------



## labor of love

valgard said:


> I disagree, the 180 nakiri I got had better grind OOTB than n-2 kitaeji and Kasumi Shigs, and definitely better than a whole lot other knives I have tried (cough mazaki*s* cough)


KU 180 nakiri?


----------



## valgard

labor of love said:


> KU 180 nakiri?


Yessir


----------



## valgard

And waaaaaay better OOTB than the two KU Kato nakiri I have tried too. I got the first Kato nakiri to cut better than the Shig but only after hours of work. The second one came in cutting noticeably better but still a far cry from the Shig for anything hard and tall.


----------



## Corradobrit1

We'll never know, Ma_sha has made sure of that. 

So how does your outlier  Ku 180 Shig stack up against the Kato 180 Nakiri?


----------



## valgard

Corradobrit1 said:


> We'll never know, Ma_sha has made sure of that.
> 
> So how does your outlier  Ku 180 Shig stack up against the Kato 180 Nakiri?


See above


----------



## labor of love

I like shigs. Or atleast the right shigs. I just can’t help notice the overall mood of the forum is that shigs have sub par grinds, but also you shouldnt alter them. Seems contradictory.


----------



## labor of love

Also, unless I’m mistaken he only paid like $280 for it. And it was far removed from ootb condition and ootb geometry.


----------



## valgard

For the record, I didn't like the Shig KU santoku I played with as much, but it didn't deserve butchering either, it was just meh


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> I like shigs. Or atleast the right shigs. I just can’t help notice the overall mood of the forum is that shigs have sub par grinds, but also you shouldnt alter them. Seems contradictory.


Could it be the earlier Lizuka blades outshine the newer gen Shigs made by the sons?


----------



## valgard

labor of love said:


> I like shigs. Or atleast the right shigs. I just can’t help notice the overall mood of the forum is that shigs have sub par grinds, but also you shouldnt alter them. Seems contradictory.


I agree, I don't think altering them is a problem, I thought this went way beyond altering. I do alter pretty much any knife I own.


----------



## labor of love

Well this Frankensteinafusa should go for passaround then. Let the forum gods decide.


----------



## valgard

labor of love said:


> Also, unless I’m mistaken he only paid like $280 for it. And it was far removed from ootb condition and ootb geometry.


Yeah, that's true, that had already been raped


----------



## valgard

Corradobrit1 said:


> Could it be the earlier Lizuka blades outshine the newer gen Shigs made by the sons?


Nah, the nicest two gyutos I tried were newer than most I didn't like (some from at least 5-6 years earlier)


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> Could it be the earlier Lizuka blades outshine the newer gen Shigs made by the sons?


My last shig was a newer one. Thinner and lighter than all the older ones I had used and by far my fave.
Similar to how newer Toyamas became lighter and thinner.
Maybe an outlier maybe not.

For scale: it was 280mm but only weighed 240 grams.
I’ve seen 240mm shigs weigh more than that.


----------



## ma_sha1

labor of love said:


> Well this Frankensteinafusa should for passaround then. Let the forum gods decide.



I am in, a pass around Texas death match against stock Shig. Kasumi gyutos, Winner take all


----------



## Barclid

Corradobrit1 said:


> Could it be the earlier Lizuka blades outshine the newer gen Shigs made by the sons?


Lizuka? That's not his name.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Barclid said:


> Lizuka? That's not his name.


My bad. Iizuka Tokifusa


----------



## ma_sha1

Aren’t there three people making Shig.? A father & two sons, depends on which one of them made your knife, it could be different?


----------



## tchan001

ma_sha1 said:


> I am in, a pass around Texas death match against stock Shig. Kasumi gyutos, Winner take all


Work hard, Ma sha. Maybe someone will really bet his costly Shig gyuto against your version.


----------



## Luftmensch

Corradobrit1 said:


> My bad. Iizuka Tokifusa



Isnt it Tokifusa Iizuka?  
(First name / Last name)


----------



## Luftmensch

valgard said:


> I do alter pretty much any knife I own.



Right? Kind of seems like the practical reality of optimising our knives towards our preferences...

...of course there are alterations and then there are _alterations_...


----------



## Corradobrit1

Luftmensch said:


> Isnt it Tokifusa Iizuka?
> (First name / Last name)


Nope Japanese naming convention is last name/first name. Get with the program


----------



## Luftmensch

Corradobrit1 said:


> Nope Japanese naming convention is last name/first name.



Fair crack. But this forum is in english* 


* Edit: not a racist dog whistle... just an observation on communication intent.


----------



## David7777777777

labor of love said:


> Also, unless I’m mistaken he only paid like $280 for it. And it was far removed from ootb condition and ootb geometry.


Correct I had price about it $285. 
It actually had all the original geometry as aside from the work removing what was left of the KU finish after a year of hard labor. 
The grind/forging on this one was actually pretty awesome as far as distal taper and the convex. . I have pictures somewhere and I did take measurements at one point I just have to see if I have the floating around to see if it's worth posting them after he's done with his work for comparative. 
I'm mostly following this thread down to see where this leads.


----------



## ma_sha1

Oh boy, the pressure!
Not just a monkey on my back, feels like I could ruin the entire Japanese knife industry...


----------



## Jville

@ma_sha1


----------



## Jville

David7777777777 said:


> Correct I had price about it $285.
> It actually had all the original geometry as aside from the work removing what was left of the KU finish after a year of hard labor.
> The grind/forging on this one was actually pretty awesome as far as distal taper and the convex. . I have pictures somewhere and I did take measurements at one point I just have to see if I have the floating around to see if it's worth posting them after he's done with his work for comparative.
> I'm mostly following this thread down to see where this leads.


David said this in his ad. And he also stated he wanted it to go to a good home, not just anybody. I don't think he should of expected it to be murdered. I don't think anyone ever thinks hey I should put a clause in my ad that asks them not to chop shop it into a 180 gyuto .


----------



## ma_sha1




----------



## David7777777777

Jville said:


> David said this in his ad. And he also stated he wanted it to go to a good home, not just anybody. I don't think he should of expected it to be murdered. I don't think anyone ever thinks hey I should put a clause in my ad that asks them not to chop shop it into a 180 gyuto .


Lol. The shock is gone. 
Hell I even talked to a blacksmith that's not too far from here about doing a stock removal knife for the hell of it at some point.


----------



## juice

David7777777777 said:


> it's like the most disappointing part of my entire life aside from being born.


 I relate to this SO much 



Jville said:


> I don't think anyone ever thinks hey I should put a clause in my ad that asks them not to chop shop it into a 180 gyuto .


Narrator: And thus, lessons were learned.


----------



## VincentBeek

ma_sha1 said:


> Aren’t there three people making Shig.? A father & two sons, depends on which one of them made your knife, it could be different?


I heard the father retired. Don't know them personally though...


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> I relate to this SO much
> 
> 
> Narrator: And thus, lessons were learned.


Not sure about you, but, the make believe narrator voice in my head is Morgan Freeman.


----------



## ma_sha1

After 4 belts at 60 grit, 2 belts at 120 for Shi.han style super high shinogi grind, & 2 belts @ 240 grit to blend away the shinogi line & push convexity towards the spine, I am closing in on the edge.

Does this look thin enough for a Shig.? 
No edge yet, I haven’t done sharpening.


----------



## ian

@David7777777777, by selling the nakiri to @ma_sha1, you made possible the most entertaining thread of the past month. We all thank you.

Edit: second most entertaining. Hard to beat Unpopular Opinions.


----------



## ma_sha1

I felt that for a Shig, I don’t want to grind it into a laser. I could do some final thinning on stones later.

right-now, I have some tough decisions to make. The left side, I ground into a spine to edge full convex, like Kato grind. But on the right side, I couldn’t do it because I can’t grind away the Shig. Family Kanji, so it’s not possible to be full Convex. I did blending of Shinogi as much as allowed by the Kanji using 240 grit. 

any suggestions on how best to finish this?

left:





Right:


----------



## esoo

Grind the kanjj - that blade is a Shig in heat treat only.


----------



## ian

Full convex on the right side, erase the Shig kanji and replace with ma_sha kanji.

Or even better, grind the kanji off and then try to redo it with a chisel!


----------



## ian

More seriously, I guess you have two options, right? Make the front half of the blade full convex and just leave it thicker near the handle, or give it more of a wide bevel geometry. Either seems fine. The latter will be easier to polish, probably.


----------



## ma_sha1

The family Kanji stays, non negotiable.


----------



## BillHanna

Why?


----------



## ma_sha1

Too obvious to explain


----------



## BillHanna

You've chopped and screwed a knife to make it basically your own. There is nothing obvious. If you really cared about the family, you would not have done it. That horse feels kinda high to be a dick.


----------



## esoo

BillHanna said:


> Why?



Because like his Shig santoku -> funyaki project, he plans to sell it as a Shig.


----------



## F-Flash

This shig is kinda like Conchita wurst.


----------



## BillHanna

esoo said:


> Because like his Shig santoku -> funyaki project, he plans to sell it as a Shig.


This opinion may be unpopular, but that seems a bit classless.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

esoo said:


> Because like his Shig santoku -> funyaki project, he plans to sell it as a Shig.



It's not like he was secretive about what had been done with that knife.


----------



## esoo

applepieforbreakfast said:


> It's not like he was secretive about what had been done with that knife.



That's quite true. But a Shig will be worth than a ma_sha1 (at this point). Clearly there is skills required to do the work and have been shown, so I'm not sure why not build his own brand.


----------



## ian

applepieforbreakfast said:


> It's not like he was secretive about what had been done with that knife.




Yea! It’s fine to preserve a symbol of the origin of the knife, even if it’s been heavily modified. ma_sha may not share the particular reverence for certain knives that many here have, but let’s stop calling him dishonest, ok? He’s totally up front with everything he does.

Looking forward to seeing the finished project.


----------



## Barclid

I guarantee you can convex to the spine and not erase the kanji entirely. But also... **** it, just grind it.


----------



## BillHanna

Be as angry as you want @ma_sha1; it's weird that you are willing to detail your entire process of stock removal, but the kanji question gets met with what seems to be an attitude or something that's beneath you.


----------



## Matus

Not sensing any anger from @ma_sha1 , you on the other hand ...


----------



## Twigg

Deleted


----------



## BillHanna

They put an angry emoji on one of my posts.


Annoyed, I'd say. @Matus


----------



## ma_sha1

Haters got to hate, it won’t stop me from enjoying the pleasure associated with a creative process. 

I came up with a “stone washed” finish that allows me to blend in the bevel without grinding away the Kanji:

What you guys think, yeah or nay?


----------



## valdim

It is fun to observe the process of de-hyping of a possible hype...
It is sad to realize a piece of art is turned into something mediocre, due to the whim of someone whose quality is simply "owner".


----------



## BillHanna

8/10


----------



## ian

How’d you do the finish?


----------



## Barclid

It just looks beat up. You can also just blend it with sandpaper.


----------



## parbaked

BillHanna said:


> They put an angry emoji on one of my posts.
> @Matus



You did call him a dick...


----------



## ptolemy

I could be wrong but I remember seeing ma_sha1 on flashlight forums 5-10 years ago. I do remember him making some mods and other really cool custom flashlights, so i'd imagine he has both experience and skills to have the best chance to make this one work 

(p.s i know I am a few weeks late to the party)


----------



## valdim

ma_sha1 said:


> The family Kanji stays, non negotiable.


@ma_sha1 By the simple life logic and by law this is not a Shigefusa knife anymore. FYI, the father can sue you, if you keep the kanji. Ofc, he wont, but it does not change the fact that keeping the kanji is at least immoral.

Edit: When I say "Can sue you" , I mean "On theory the father can sue you..."
Edit of the edit: "FYI, the father can sue you, if you keep the kanji." to be read "FYI, the father can sue you, if you keep the kanji and you sell the knife without notice what you did."


----------



## ma_sha1

valdim said:


> FYI, the father can sue you, if keep the kanji.



Congratulations ️


----------



## ptolemy

valdim said:


> @ma_sha1 By the simple life logic and by law this is not a Shigefusa knife anymore. FYI, the father can sue you, if you keep the kanji. Ofc, he wont, but it does not change the fact that keeping the kanji is at least immoral.



I don't believe he can sue even if he wanted. He bought it fair and square and he will do with it as he pleases. NOW, if he decides to use the brand name to sell his own creations as such, then sure. But, he can do whatever he wants to current knife and even sell it as Shig. As long as he mentions what he did to it i.e full disclosure.


----------



## valdim

ptolemy said:


> I don't believe he can sue even if he wanted.


Keep believing.  Especially if you don't have a legal background.

Edit: @ptolemy Pls, don't spam the nice thread, if you decide to argue more on the legal side of this story. Let me finish the popcorn, ma_sha1 is performing very well.


----------



## ptolemy

valdim said:


> Keep believing.  Especially if you don't have a legal background.



your comment basically is the same as you buying jeans and cutting off 2" at the bottom because they are too long and then getting sued for it..

altering by end user is allowed, so stop spreading misinformation


----------



## valdim

I am on this thread to view the performances of ma_sha1, not to satisfy your curiosity. Moreover, as I said, it would be spamming the thread.


----------



## juice

valdim said:


> FYI, the father can sue you, if you keep the kanji.


Internet legal advice isn't worth the paper it's written on...


----------



## M1k3

@ma_sha1 should take up one the '7 Samurai' pseudonyms.


----------



## iimi

juice said:


> Internet legal advice isn't worth the paper it's written on...


not sure you know how the internet works but it saves a lot of paper


----------



## juice

Brakedeezbohnz said:


> not sure you know how the internet works but it saves a lot of paper


Yeah, that's pretty much the point of the statement, indeed


----------



## M1k3

Brakedeezbohnz said:


> not sure you know how the internet works but it saves a lot of paper


"You're bordering on slander. - Some Internet Lawyer, Esq." probably


----------



## iimi

juice said:


> Yeah, that's pretty much the point of the statement, indeed


yeah, I was just continuing the line of facetiousness, if you can call it that.


----------



## juice

Brakedeezbohnz said:


> yeah, I was just continuing the line of facetiousness, if you can call it that.


I'm not a fascist! (OP might be, though, given what he's done to that poor knife!)


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> I'm not a fascist! (OP might be, though, given what he's done to that poor knife!)


I'm thinking more Libertarian, Laissez-faire type.


----------



## M1k3

Or Anarchist.


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> I'm thinking more Libertarian, Laissez-faire type.


Me too, but actual definitions of words don't seem to matter too much these days...


----------



## Corradobrit1

Ma_sha is an alchemist. Creating a Kitaeji from a kasumi.


----------



## ian

@valdim is right. A reputable source told me a knifemaker can actually sue you if you change the knife at all while still trying to pass it off as an original. That’s why I always remove the kanji before I sharpen my knives. Better safe than sued. 

Edit: I know not everyone has time to be as careful as I am. I’ll help lawsuit-proof the passaround knives coming my way too, as a thank you to the owners for letting me try them out.


----------



## parbaked

ian said:


> @valdim is right. A reputable source told me a knifemaker can actually sue you if you change the knife at all while still trying to pass it off as an original.



I have this suspicion that you converted the Catchie Forgie you sold me from a gyuto to a santoku...there is something not right with the profile.
I'm going to ask my counsel, @valdim, if I can sue you...


----------



## juice

ian said:


> A reputable source told me a knifemaker can actually sue you if you change the knife at all while still trying to pass it off as an original.


But that's not the same thing that we're talking about here.



ian said:


> That’s why I always remove the kanji before I sharpen my knives. Better safe than sued.


I think we can all agree with this advice, though. Even if you're not a European knife lawyer.


----------



## ian

parbaked said:


> I have this suspicion that you converted the Catchie Forgie you sold me from a gyuto to a santoku...there is something not right with the profile.
> I'm going to ask my counsel, @valdim, if I can sue you...



Ha, santoku? That tip is so high it just ate an entire family-sized pack of doritos. 

Kinda miss that knife sometimes.


----------



## Keat

This is a great thread before the legal stuff. If people are interested in learning about some of the legal issues they are the first sale doctrine (sometimes referred to as the exhaustion doctrine), and the material difference exception. And it likely varies some from country to country.


----------



## ptolemy

ian said:


> @valdim is right. A reputable source told me a knifemaker can actually sue you if you change the knife at all while still trying to pass it off as an original. That’s why I always remove the kanji before I sharpen my knives. Better safe than sued.
> 
> Edit: I know not everyone has time to be as careful as I am. I’ll help lawsuit-proof the passaround knives coming my way too, as a thank you to the owners for letting me try them out.



If you modified something like a gyuto into santoku and then Selling it as a shig santoku, perhaps there is some beef to be raised there, but never gonna be a lawsuit. But, if you did same and sold it with a simply note that this was a gyuto and now i modified into a santoku but now decided to sell it, there is simply 0 ground got any law suit.


----------



## parbaked

ian said:


> Kinda miss that knife sometimes.


At first I was like, ***, but I'm coming around.


----------



## juice

ptolemy said:


> But, if you did same and sold it with a simply note that this was a gyuto and now i modified into a santoku but now decided to sell it, there is simply 0 ground got any law suit.


Ahhh, but are you an expert on Bulgarian used/modified knife-sale laws? Hmmm?


----------



## parbaked

ian said:


> Ha, santoku? That tip is so high it just ate an entire family-sized pack of doritos.



Torpedo is more accurate...


----------



## Jville

The first two picks of the new finish looked pretty cool imo, but that third pic... yikes, ugly.


----------



## juice

Jville said:


> Dude you can not be serious.


I certainly read it as a joke, especially taking into account the source, as you say


----------



## soigne_west

I’m currently in possession of evidence against @ian. Mr. heiji, call me let’s talk numbers.


----------



## tchan001

If the maker sues for every major modification of the knives profile, there would be a lot of suits for all the profiles that had been significsntly modified due to broken tips and major chips. Obviously that is not the case.


----------



## Corradobrit1

[/QUOTE]
Dude you can not be serious. Are your really removing all the kanji, before you sharpen your knives. After you sharpen a knife do you run and hide it under the couch or your bed in hopes the knife Police will not find any evidence?? This is honestly way more disturbing than what ma sha is doing. It a f******* knife man. It was created with the purpose and intent to be sharpened. Stop being a freak and ruining the kanji on your knives, eventhough they are your knives. I see you post alot and you are often kind of funny and have great things to say, but this is really disturbing... What Ma Sha is doing is way beyond that he is making a new knife out of a nakiri that he basically scrapped. Of course, it's not a shig anymore. Hopefully, ma sha believes that to, although I'm not sure I've heard him say that. A shigefusa is a brand with that brand the knive is made and ground a certain way that's a major part of the knive, beyond the steal. The grind does look nice on Ma sha's, but it's in no way a shig anymore. It shouldn't even be debated, which I'm not sure that it even is debated.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## juice

tchan001 said:


> If the maker sues for every major modification of the knives profile, there would be a lot of suits for all the profiles that had been significsntly modified due to broken tips and major chips. Obviously that is not the case.


But what about in Bulgaria, hmmm?


----------



## Jville

juice said:


> I certainly read it as a joke, especially taking into account the source, as you say


I'll be honest he had me fooled. I was like W**!!! My bad @ian. You said it so smoothly and convincingly. There are some real sick people out there. It seemed like there were some serious claims going on.


----------



## tchan001

I've never bought any knives from Bulgaria so I don't care. But if Bulgarian knives are a major portion of your collection, then you could always hire a Bulgarian lawyer to make sure your proposed modifications are viable.


----------



## F-Flash

Can I sue mods for moderating/deleting my posts?


----------



## juice

F-Flash said:


> Can I sue mods for moderating/deleting my posts?


Is Finnish law like Bulgarian law? THat's the real question.


----------



## M1k3

F-Flash said:


> Can I sue mods for moderating/deleting my posts?


In Russia, mods sue you.


----------



## Corradobrit1

juice said:


> Is Finnish law like Bulgarian law? THat's the real question.


European Court of Justice takes precedence here. Both being part of EU

If they have laws about acceptable banana shape I'm sure knives will be covered


----------



## juice

Corradobrit1 said:


> European Court of Justice takes precedence here. Both being part of EU


But I'm an Aussie, does Brexit help?


----------



## M1k3

Corradobrit1 said:


> European Court of Justice takes precedence here. Both being part of EU


But is their copyright laws EU wide or is Bulgaria an exception?


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> But is their copyright laws EU wide or is Bulgaria and exception?


And does it cover Kanji specifically?


----------



## soigne_west

In America, the secret police will come and take you away.


----------



## M1k3

soigne_west said:


> In America, the secret police will come and take you away.


Should have more guns. I've heard it'll keep them away.


----------



## Corradobrit1

juice said:


> But I'm an Aussie, does Brexit help?


Transition Period man. Brexit won't happen until 31/12/20....maybe


----------



## soigne_west

M1k3 said:


> Should have more guns. I've heard it'll keep them away.



I got knives tho


----------



## Corradobrit1

soigne_west said:


> I got knives tho


They'll confiscate the adulterated ones


----------



## M1k3

soigne_west said:


> I got knives tho


Are they legal in England?


----------



## juice

soigne_west said:


> I got knives tho


Limited force projection capabilities, though.


----------



## soigne_west

M1k3 said:


> Are they legal in England?



Well, there NOT nakiris


----------



## Corradobrit1

M1k3 said:


> Are they legal in England?


Only the petty's and parers. Anything over 3" is classified an offensive weapon.


----------



## M1k3

soigne_west said:


> Well, there NOT nakiris


That's good. Don't have to turn them into a Gyuto.


----------



## M1k3

Corradobrit1 said:


> Only the petty's and parers. Anything over 3" is classified an offensive weapon.


Are Mercer's classified as offensive?


----------



## madelinez

Maybe I'm weird, I actually like that finish...


----------



## valgard

madelinez said:


> Maybe I'm weird, I actually like that finish...


yep, certified weird


----------



## soigne_west

I want some of what everyone on this forum is smoking today


----------



## F-Flash

soigne_west said:


> I want some of what everyone on this forum is smoking today


My neighbors Bob and Karen might have some, let me see.


----------



## simar

ma_sha1 said:


> Haters got to hate, it won’t stop me from enjoying the pleasure associated with a creative process.
> 
> I came up with a “stone washed” finish that allows me to blend in the bevel without grinding away the Kanji:
> 
> What you guys think, yeah or nay?
> View attachment 88708
> View attachment 88707
> View attachment 88706



You could sand off that finish and try with larger rounded stones to get a nicer finish


----------



## soigne_west

F-Flash said:


> My neighbors Bob and Karen might have some, let me see.



They smoke bammer


----------



## valdim

Guys, you have created A LOT of spam.  
I hope ma_sha1 will show us the handle when it is ready.


----------



## M1k3

valdim said:


> Guys, you have created A LOT of spam.
> I hope ma_sha1 will show us the handle when it is ready.


Oh yes! My money is on hot dog bun.


----------



## tostadas

I demand more knife photos!


----------



## ma_sha1

tostadas said:


> I demand more knife photos!



Happy to oblige, & bring the thread back all the way from North Pole is the return of Shig’s fake distal taper:


----------



## Nemo

valdim said:


> Guys, you have created A LOT of spam.
> I hope ma_sha1 will show us the handle when it is ready.




Yes. There has been far too much off topic banter, not all of it nice.

Let's keep this thread on topic. And nice.


----------



## daveb

M1k3 said:


> Are Mercer's classified as offensive?


 
You know they are. But in this thread they're the least offensive part...


----------



## daveb

And it's back.

I don't have any interest in Shigs, nor Shig threads, so this one went on a bit without adult supervision.

I thought long and hard about each possibly offensive post. Then flipped a coin. If your post was deleted, OK. If someone's post was not deleted, OK. 

TL/DR Ma bought a Shig. Ma "chopped" the Shig. Some, who have no tangible interest in Ma's affairs, didn't "like" it. Yawn.


----------



## Corradobrit1

This knife deserves a pink Hello Shiggy handle. Epic handle for an Epic knife.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

oh my god what did i just read through

when i joined two days back people told me of the dislike of nakiris on the forum
the first day i saw a "what is the point of a nakiri" thread
the second day I see there are people straight murdering shigefusa nakiris

all that's left to add is a mercer handle


----------



## BillHanna




----------



## DoubleJJ

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> oh my god what did i just read through
> 
> when i joined two days back people told me of the dislike of nakiris on the forum
> the first day i saw a "what is the point of a nakiri" thread
> the second day I see there are people straight murdering shigefusa nakiris
> 
> all that's left to add is a mercer handle



Welcome!!!
Not gonna lie... this is a good one.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Props to @ma_sha1 for doing a thorough job of it. If anything, I would have liked to have seen a K-tip shigefusa.

MA_SHA1 NEXT PROJECT K TIP SHIG PLEASE


----------



## Barclid

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Props to @ma_sha1 for doing a thorough job of it. If anything, I would have liked to have seen a K-tip shigefusa.


I want to see it reconverted into a Nakiri. Complete the circle of life.


----------



## SHOWERDOOKIE

Barclid said:


> I want to see it reconverted into a Nakiri. Complete the circle of life.


Take this bad boy all the way down to a kiridashi and a miniature baseball bat by the end of it


----------



## ma_sha1




----------



## ma_sha1

Many thanks to Dave for cleaning up the thread, & bring back the contents, now I can finish it up.

I’ve tried a few different finishes, & some etching as well, but wasn’t happy with most of the outcome. Finally, I settled on a finish that I like, similar to my fav. knife Shi.han 52100, it has a rougher top followed by high grind vertical hairlines. I tried to match Shi.han‘s hairline, the 1000 grit vertical hairline looks pretty close IMHO.

However, the vertical hairline is just for looks, Very shallow, a few passes on the belt. The shinogi line is not real, there’s no real angle transition at the fake shinogi line. 

I think I should be starting to work on the handle now, what do you think?


----------



## parbaked

It looks immoral...but in a good way!


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

@ma_sha1 while I would have wished for an actual shinogi line (however small) that transition looks suuper frigin sick. What are you thinking of for the handle? 

+1 Vote for a bright red 3D printed tapered octagonal design with matching saya


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

That's looks super nice!

How's it cut?


----------



## ma_sha1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @ma_sha1 while I would have wished for an actual shinogi line (however small) that transition looks suuper frigin sick. What are you thinking of for the handle?



Thanks for your kind words  I have a special handle in mind for a while, just waiting for a worthy knife to try it on.

It’s inspired by one of Mario’s handles, something I’ve not seen anyone else do, but I‘d like not to spill the beans until I get to finish it.

Mario reminds me of Marco, both were on top of their games but I identify with Mario more. Each of his knives are different, it’s like he doesn’t like to repeat him self. Same with me, I never make the same thing twice in a hobby, but i have no problem emulating someone that I admire.


----------



## ma_sha1

applepieforbreakfast said:


> That's looks super nice!
> 
> How's it cut?



Thanks  I don’t know, I haven’t done the edge yet. However, cutting to me is physics, no magics here. Thin behind the edge + tall profile + full convex grind should lead to the physics of:


----------



## M1k3

Looking good!


----------



## lemeneid

ma_sha1 said:


> Many thanks to Dave for cleaning up the thread, & bring back the contents, now I can finish it up.
> 
> I’ve tried a few different finishes, & some etching as well, but wasn’t happy with most of the outcome. Finally, I settled on a finish that I like, similar to my fav. knife Shi.han 52100, it has a rougher top followed by high grind vertical hairlines. I tried to match Shi.han‘s hairline, the 1000 grit vertical hairline looks pretty close IMHO.
> 
> However, the vertical hairline is just for looks, Very shallow, a few passes on the belt. The shinogi line is not real, there’s no real angle transition at the fake shinogi line.
> 
> I think I should be starting to work on the handle now, what do you think?
> 
> View attachment 88808
> View attachment 88809
> View attachment 88810


Very nice! I think the final test would be to test the grind by laying the knife flat on stones and seeing if you get a nice even kasumi or full of holes 
Great job, throughly enjoyed the read, should condense everything into the first post for easier reading so that future forumers don't need to trawl through copious off topic pages


----------



## drsmp

How did you get the textured finish on the top half of the blade?


----------



## lemeneid

drsmp said:


> How did you get the textured finish on the top half of the blade?


My guess is a few quick and dirty passes over a random orbital sander


----------



## M1k3

Looking good!


----------



## ma_sha1

drsmp said:


> How did you get the textured finish on the top half of the blade?


That’s my “stone washed” finish that I discovered by accident in a prior DIY.

I first sand the whole knife to 240 with a belt sander to get a smooth base, then go back to 80 or 120 grit with random orbital sander. Hold it in one spot without moving around, you’ll get random small swirls patterns, lift up & repeat on another spot, do that all over to finish the entire knife. In close up, the finish resembles bulat/wootz steel pattern, it’s completely random. Because it’s physical pattern, it doesn’t come off unless you sand it off or wear it down over time.


----------



## Midsummer

Looks like he etched the "stonewash pattern". A pattern that may well be created by a random orbit sander. I have a triangular detail sander that would do something like this with an 40 or 80 grit pad. Must say I have enjoyed the thread zealots and all.


lemeneid said:


> My guess is a few quick and dirty passes over a random orbital sander


----------



## ma_sha1

drsmp said:


> How did you get the textured finish on the top half of the blade?





Midsummer said:


> Looks like he etched the "stonewash pattern". A pattern that may well be created by a random orbit sander. I have a triangular detail sander that would do something like this with an 40 or 80 grit pad. Must say I have enjoyed the thread zealots and all.



Good call, I did etch it afterwards, it doesn’t change the pattern, but made the pattern darker.


----------



## Twigg

Lol, those cheering this on are like "the turkeys voting for Christmas". 

Actually, I do believe in free property rights, so chop away. I just worry that a chopped knife, in a similar situation, will end up on the secondary market without the disclosure you provided. I think that watching this speaks to those concerns.


----------



## Alder26

This thread is worth the Chop Shop Shig just for entertainment. I don't think I've ever seen so much engagement in such a short amount of time!


----------



## tchan001

Looking forward to seeing the completed knife in action in video.


----------



## Marek07

juice said:


> Me too, but actual definitions of words don't seem to matter too much these days...


"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
Through the Looking-Glass - Lewis Carroll


----------



## ptolemy

I don't like the finished look. I just don't really enjoy seeing the transition. But, that doesn't matter, as long as OP likes it.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Twigg said:


> Lol, those cheering this on are like "the turkeys voting for Christmas".


I'm guessing you're not from the USA. Its Thanksgiving turkeys have to be wary of. If they make to Dec they can relax.


----------



## Corradobrit1

tchan001 said:


> Looking forward to seeing the completed knife in action in video.


Yes, decimating a few carrots


----------



## JDC

ma_sha1 said:


> Many thanks to Dave for cleaning up the thread, & bring back the contents, now I can finish it up.
> 
> I’ve tried a few different finishes, & some etching as well, but wasn’t happy with most of the outcome. Finally, I settled on a finish that I like, similar to my fav. knife Shi.han 52100, it has a rougher top followed by high grind vertical hairlines. I tried to match Shi.han‘s hairline, the 1000 grit vertical hairline looks pretty close IMHO.
> 
> However, the vertical hairline is just for looks, Very shallow, a few passes on the belt. The shinogi line is not real, there’s no real angle transition at the fake shinogi line.
> 
> I think I should be starting to work on the handle now, what do you think?
> 
> View attachment 88808
> View attachment 88809
> View attachment 88810


Really good job! Let us know whether the heat treat is preserved or not when you put it on the board!
To me a burnt chestnut handle with black buffalo horn ferrule would be really neat on it.


----------



## ma_sha1

JDC said:


> Really good job! Let us know whether the heat treat is preserved or not when you put it on the board!
> To me a burnt chestnut handle with black buffalo horn ferrule would be really neat on it.



Thanks. I have zero concern on that. The 3x21 belt grinding was done at such low speed, the steel was never hot enough to hurt my fingers before dipping in cold water, max was about the boiling water temperature of 100c which I know I couldn’t bear.


----------



## JDC

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks. I have zero concern on that. The 3x21 belt grinding was done at such low speed, the steel was never hot enough to hurt my fingers before dipping in cold water, never exceeded boiling water temperature of 100c which I know I couldn’t bear.


Hopefully that's the case!


----------



## ma_sha1

lemeneid said:


> Very nice! I think the final test would be to test the grind by laying the knife flat on stones and seeing if you get a nice even kasumi or full of holes



I’ve been thinking how to do this so that I can provide a visual. My stones are not perfectly flat, I decided to place a flat metal ruler on top of the blade against the back light instead. The light will come through between the blade & the ruler, revealing holes/low spots. 

The first picture, ruler not in contact with the knife, lots of light coming through:





Ruler on Shig., revealing low spots, very minor.





Ruler on Shig. #2, contact moved closer to the edge:






Ruler on Shig. #3:
Very close to the edge. The front is not a low spot, the ruler is off the edge at that spot due to the curve of the blade.





As a control, here is my Shi.han against ruler:


----------



## Jville

Why do you keep calling it a shig. It's not a shig anymore. It's a Ma Sha. It would be like calling a knife made by toyama blue #2, instead of, toyama. You are basically calling the knife by the steel type. It's a Ma Sha made with steel heat treated by shigefusa, but it's definitely not a shig.


----------



## ma_sha1

It’s still a Shig. 
If I cut you legs off (Not that I’ll do that, just to make a point), does your name change?


----------



## ian

Let the man differentiate it from the Shihan by saying Shig. Not a big deal. It doesn't have to be a loaded term in this context.


----------



## Midsummer

This must scare the life out of some. Because if you had done this without documentation it is likely that no one would ever know. The knife could be passed in the community without detection.


----------



## ma_sha1

Ok, the official name is “Ma_sha1 heavily modified Frankenstein gyuto 180mm formerly known as Shigefusa Nakiri”.

When I call it a Shig. in this thread, this is what I mean, ok? The full name is just too long


----------



## ma_sha1

Midsummer said:


> This must scare the life out of some. Because if you had done this without documentation it is likely that no one would ever know. The knife could be passed in the community without detection.



As a rare “stoned” Shigefusa?


----------



## BillHanna

ma_sha1 said:


> Ok, the official name is “Ma_sha1 heavily modified Frankenstein gyuto 180mm formerly known as Shigefusa Nakiri”.
> 
> When I call it a Shig. in this thread, this is what I mean, ok? The full name is just too long


Give it a symbol, like Prince did.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Playing the devil's advocate here, why would this not be a shig?

Like - if I took a TF 210 Gyuto, thinned the hell out of it, and reprofiled it for a bigger flat spot, it would still be a TF. If I then used it for 10 years until it was a 150mm sliver of it's past self, it would still be a TF. It would arguably be a petty and not a gyuto, too - but to me it would still be a TF.

Although it's jarring to say the least, isn't @ma_sha1 just thinning, reprofiling, and refinishing his knife in a way that would give him as the owner the most utility and/or enjoyment?

Kinda like Bamford and their custom Rolex abominations.

Edit: many replies have been posted since I started typing this rip order of conversation


----------



## BillHanna

Name it like a baseball field. Ma_sha1 Field at Shigefusa Park.


----------



## Forty Ounce

ma_sha1 said:


> I’ve been thinking how to do this so that I can provide a visual. My stones are not perfectly flat, I decided to place a flat metal ruler on top of the blade against the back light instead. The light will come through between the blade & the ruler, revealing holes/low spots.
> 
> The first picture, ruler not in contact with the knife, lots of light coming through:
> View attachment 88857
> 
> 
> Ruler on Shig., revealing low spots, very minor.
> View attachment 88858
> 
> 
> Ruler on Shig. #2, contact moved closer to the edge:
> 
> View attachment 88859
> 
> 
> Ruler on Shig. #3:
> Very close to the edge. The front is not a low spot, the ruler is off the edge at that spot due to the curve of the blade.
> View attachment 88860
> 
> 
> As a control, here is my Shi.han against ruler:
> View attachment 88863


I think it's about time you made a video, so we can see the light reflections and see how good/bad your work is.


----------



## daveb

Call it anything but late to dinner.....


----------



## ptolemy

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Playing the devil's advocate here, why would this not be a shig?
> 
> Like - if I took a TF 210 Gyuto, thinned the hell out of it, and reprofiled it for a bigger flat spot, it would still be a TF. If I then used it for 10 years until it was a 150mm sliver of it's past self, it would still be a TF. It would arguably be a petty and not a gyuto, too - but to me it would still be a TF.
> 
> Although it's jarring to say the least, isn't @ma_sha1 just thinning, reprofiling, and refinishing his knife in a way that would give him as the owner the most utility and/or enjoyment?
> 
> Kinda like Bamford and their custom Rolex abominations.
> 
> Edit: many replies have been posted since I started typing this rip order of conversation



That's always been my point, but so many feel insulted that "some" connecticut yankee doodle dandy would dare to touch some masters work.


----------



## Jville

ma_sha1 said:


> It’s still a Shig.
> If I cut you legs off (Not that I’ll do that, just to make a point), does your name change?


You totally reground the knife. The grind is nothing like a shig, hence why you should just call it a Ma Sha.


Midsummer said:


> This must scare the life out of some. Because if you had done this without documentation it is likely that no one would ever know. The knife could be passed in the community without detection.


I would think alot of people would notice, don't you. I've seen people pick up much subtler changes.


ma_sha1 said:


> Ok, the official name is “Ma_sha1 heavily modified Frankenstein gyuto 180mm formerly known as Shigefusa Nakiri”.
> 
> When I call it a Shig. in this thread, this is what I mean, ok? The full name is just too long


You could just abbreviate it the Ma Sha or the Frankenshig.


----------



## Jville

ptolemy said:


> That's always been my point, but so many feel insulted that "some" connecticut yankee doodle dandy would dare to touch some masters work.


I'm not insulted. It's just not a Shig anymore. There's more to knife making than just a blank of steel. So Ma Sha is the knife maker, he basically used a blank of Shig steel that happened to previously be a fully functional nakiri. It's way beyond some thinning.


----------



## Forty Ounce

ptolemy said:


> That's always been my point, but so many feel insulted that "some" connecticut yankee doodle dandy would dare to touch some masters work.


I doubt anyone would have a problem with a proper maker/polisher enhancing the work of the maker. I think the problem comes up when an inexperienced person does it. Someone with proper knife knowledge knows better than to completely change a knife. They give respect to the craftsmen and try to remove as little metal as possible. That's the key right there, and I'll put it in caps so you can read it... AS LITTLE METAL AS POSSIBLE


----------



## M1k3

Jville said:


> I'm not insulted. It's just not a Shig anymore. There's more to knife making than just a blank of steel. So Ma Sha is the knife maker, he basically used a blank of Shig steel that happened to previously be a fully functional nakiri. It's way beyond some thinning.


So every knife that's had it's tip heavily damaged shouldn't be called what it was before it was damaged?

Or is it different because it wasn't on purpose, therefore getting a pass from making a stink?


----------



## ptolemy

Forty Ounce said:


> I doubt anyone would have a problem with a proper maker/polisher enhancing the work of the maker. I think the problem comes up when an inexperienced person does it. Someone with proper knife knowledge knows better than to completely change a knife. They give respect to the craftsmen and try to remove as little metal as possible. That's the key right there, and I'll put it in caps so you can read it... AS LITTLE METAL AS POSSIBLE



but you're essentially contradicting yourself. many times we seen here, probably 1000's... that some knives becomes hot, 20-30 people buy it here and end up thinning it or something else and then selling it as is. they most often mention it, of course

but, by your definition, ANY changes to the original design make it a custom, not that custom by that maker. what about when dave etches it? or replaces handle? the original designer must have attached the handle in perfect synergy with the knife , etc

I am just saying, as long as masha1 tells everyone when he sells what he did to it, then since original is a shig, then it's a shig. now, if he changes steel, heat treat, decides to add more, then it's different, but where do we draw the line? I imagine it's same as another 'popular' topic row v wade, some people are way to the left, some way to the right, some are somewhere in the continuum.


----------



## Jville

M1k3 said:


> So every knife that's had it's tip heavily damaged shouldn't be called what it was before it was damaged?
> 
> Or is it different because it wasn't on purpose, therefore getting a pass from making a stink?


Heavily damaged tip can definitely change some things. But not always, necessarily the whole knife. The spine can be brought down and the tip thinned. It can definitely be different. But this is literally a whole new knife profile, grind, etc. Nothing but the steel is from shig. I don't understand why people argue to keep calling it a shig. Im not saying anything about the project, besides just it's a new knife, not a shig. I'm surprised it's debated so heavily.


----------



## Forty Ounce

ptolemy said:


> but you're essentially contradicting yourself. many times we seen here, probably 1000's... that some knives becomes hot, 20-30 people buy it here and end up thinning it or something else and then selling it as is. they most often mention it, of course
> 
> but, by your definition, ANY changes to the original design make it a custom, not that custom by that maker. what about when dave etches it? or replaces handle? the original designer must have attached the handle in perfect synergy with the knife , etc
> 
> I am just saying, as long as masha1 tells everyone when he sells what he did to it, then since original is a shig, then it's a shig. now, if he changes steel, heat treat, decides to add more, then it's different, but where do we draw the line? I imagine it's same as another 'popular' topic row v wade, some people are way to the left, some way to the right, some are somewhere in the continuum.


You're being too critical. Common sense bud


----------



## M1k3

I'm surprised it's so heavily debated also. It's a freaking knife! Calm down!


----------



## Jville

M1k3 said:


> I'm surprised it's so heavily debated also. It's a freaking knife! Calm down!


I'm perfectly calm, hence the no exclamations. I kind of assumed everyone thought it wasn't a shig anymore but, rather, a knife made by Ma Sha. I was sort of surprised to see otherwise.


----------



## ptolemy

Forty Ounce said:


> You're being too critical. Common sense bud



I am very calm, just saying others are too passionate


----------



## Forty Ounce

ptolemy said:


> I am very calm, just saying others are too passionate


Did you mean to reply to me? I feel like you mixed up some stuff that others said with things that I said..


----------



## ptolemy

Forty Ounce said:


> Did you mean to reply to me? I feel like you mixed up some stuff that others said with things that I said..


oh, it may have quoted you by mistake, i am just speaking in general


----------



## Forty Ounce

ptolemy said:


> oh, it may have quoted you by mistake, i am just speaking in general


All good


----------



## parbaked

_"Opinions are like noses, everyone has one and thinks theirs smells best"_
I think I got that right?
Here's mine:
The only way forward is to suggest a better name.
I propose taking the first and last three letters from the thread title.

Can we call it:* ShiDIY Knife*?


----------



## Barclid

Well, @ma_sha1 I'll just say that I was predisposed against believing in you given your last Shigefusa modification, but honestly I think you've done a really good job of working on this one. I think pretty much everything but the finish looks good. Enjoy your knife.


----------



## JDC

Maybe the OP should just engrave or stamp his name alongside shigfusa after completion, the knife now has his time and life in it, and it will be an identifiable piece if it somehow went to BST. 

Still a chance this modification may beat the original shig in performance.


----------



## ian

Maybe “Shigefusa hand-modified by masha“? Or just Shi-han for short?


----------



## Twigg

CM doesn't credit Anvil or Centaur Forge when she modifies their farrier rasps.


----------



## ma_sha1

ian said:


> Maybe “Shigefusa hand-modified by masha“? Or just Shi-han for short?



Lol, good one, . But this will ignite a whole new round of fire with Shi.han fans.

Or, are you just trying to string things up, like there’s not enough controversy already?


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

I've got it.

Ma_Shig


----------



## daveb

Radical thought but what if he calls it whatever he wants? I doubt anyone outside this forum even knows what Shig is or means.


----------



## Twigg

daveb said:


> Radical thought but what if he calls it whatever he wants? I doubt anyone outside this forum even knows what Shig is or means.


Hey now! Its a slow day, what else do we have to argue over.


----------



## Jville

ian said:


> Maybe “Shigefusa hand-modified by masha“? Or just Shi-han for short?


That's a good idea, just take out the dash though and go with Shihan .


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> Maybe “Shigefusa hand-modified by masha“? Or just Shi-han for short?


Careful, wouldn't want to run afoul of any copyright or trademark laws.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Forty Ounce said:


> I doubt anyone would have a problem with a proper maker/polisher enhancing the work of the maker. I think the problem comes up when an inexperienced person does it. Someone with proper knife knowledge knows better than to completely change a knife. They give respect to the craftsmen and try to remove as little metal as possible. That's the key right there, and I'll put it in caps so you can read it... AS LITTLE METAL AS POSSIBLE



I mean, he did remove "as little metal as possible" to make it into a gyuto...

All things considered it looks like he's done an honest job of things, and pretty well too. If he uses the knife it'll be a hell of a lot better of a fate IMO than some cabinet queens.


----------



## inferno

ma_sha1 said:


> Covid-19 project gets a bit crazy sones times
> 
> Here I want to turn the 180 Shig. Nakiri. into 180mm gyuto instead, before I start, what you guys think about the profile?
> 
> I like it tall, aiming for 48/49mm heel height. I can make tip higher or lower, pretty much anywhere I want it before I fire up the table saw.
> 
> The question is, should I reduce the heel height to make it more slim looking, more similar to a real Shig. Kasumi ?
> 
> For ref., the Fujin has 44 heel height.
> 
> View attachment 88306



this post is inferno approved!


----------



## MowgFace

This debate is cracking me up. 

Dave Martell made a living off thinning and etching Hiromotos, people out here taking damaged Kato gyutos, getting them ground down to a Petty to resell, altering profiles, thinning bevels, removing shoulders, rounding spines and choils, putting on horrific colored handles with epoxy, adding TF finger notches, etc. You name it, we have done it here. Usually no one sh!ts their pants over it. Why? Because as long as someone doesnt try to pass it off as something else, or that its BNIB, there is nothing wrong. Why is Ma Sha not getting the benefit of the doubt that there would be full disclosure if it were to be sold? 

Quarantine got a lot of folks wound pretty tight... Ma Sha great job on your SHIG.


----------



## ma_sha1

MowgFace said:


> This debate is cracking me up.
> 
> Dave Martell made a living off thinning and etching Hiromotos, people out here taking damaged Kato gyutos, getting them ground down to a Petty to resell, altering profiles, thinning bevels, removing shoulders, rounding spines and choils, putting on horrific colored handles with epoxy, adding TF finger notches, etc. You name it, we have done it here. Usually no one sh!ts their pants over it. Why? Because as long as someone doesnt try to pass it off as something else, or that its BNIB, there is nothing wrong. Why is Ma Sha not getting the benefit of the doubt that there would be full disclosure if it were to be sold?
> 
> Quarantine got a lot of folks wound pretty tight... Ma Sha great job on your SHIG.



Thanks buddy, really appreciate it, well said!


----------



## ma_sha1

daveb said:


> Radical thought but what if he calls it whatever he wants? I doubt anyone outside this forum even knows what Shig is or means.



Thanks! & very true, I’ve never heard of Shig. until I joined KKF, & got my unicorn lessons


----------



## simar

ma_sha1 said:


> Lol, good one, . But this will ignite a whole new round of fire with Shi.han fans.
> 
> Or, are you just trying to string things up, like there’s not enough controversy already?


enough of this shigma stigma already


----------



## Phuongle1985

How did you add back the KU??


----------



## ma_sha1

Phuongle1985 said:


> How did you add back the KU??



Not exactly a KU, it’s my “stone washed” surface finish done by orbital sander, I had a detailed explanation a couple pages ago.


----------



## inferno

ma_sha1 said:


> That’s my “stone washed” finish that I discovered by accident in a prior DIY.
> 
> I first sand the whole knife to 240 with a belt sander to get a smooth base, then go back to 80 or 120 grit with random orbital sander. Hold it in one spot without moving around, you’ll get random small swirls patterns, lift up & repeat on another spot, do that all over to finish the entire knife. In close up, the finish resembles bulat/wootz steel pattern, it’s completely random. Because it’s physical pattern, it doesn’t come off unless you sand it off or wear it down over time.
> 
> View attachment 88813



also air powered "needle hammer" will create similar interesting effects.
you know the one with the 50 or so pins sticking out of it.


----------



## Codered

Good job in enhancing this Shig to a better knife. It looks just as good (or bad) as any shig out there. It's got the dna of a great blade. I see no point in not calling this a Shig 180 gyuto and do whatever you want with it. 
I mean i've seen a so called K-tip gyuto by kato which if you ask me was a broken tip 270 modified to look like a k-tip and nobody complained or even smelled it. This asumption is just personal opinion so please don't flame. Just take the picture with the ktip and try to draw the continuity of it and you will see the 270.


----------



## tchan001

You should stamp your own seal on it. Sort of like the Dalman Birgersson warikomi, a unique collaboration between Shig and Ma_Sha1 although without Shig noticing.


----------



## juice

Next up: "Is Kanji use cultural appropriation if white people on a knife forum demand it?"


----------



## McMan

juice said:


> Next up: "Is Kanji use cultural appropriation if white people on a knife forum demand it?"


Been there, done that. (There's a thread about two years old kickin around about this.)


----------



## juice

McMan said:


> Been there, done that. (There's a thread about two years old kickin around about this.)


 Awww man, I thought I was being all edgy and stuff...


----------



## Matus

daveb said:


> Radical thought but what if he calls it whatever he wants? I doubt anyone outside this forum even knows what Shig is or means.



So true. If you message a ‘normal’ person saying that you just got an ‘expensive shig’, they will think it is just a typo ...


----------



## tchan001

I think it is still a Shig although heavily modified. If he had cut off the kanji and welded it to another piece of steel and then made a knife, that would not be a real Shig.


----------



## JDC

tchan001 said:


> You should stamp your own seal on it. Sort of like the Dalman Birgersson warikomi, a unique collaboration between Shig and Ma_Sha1 although without Shig noticing.


And shig probably won't care about what an owner of his ku nakiri do to the knife.


----------



## drsmp

Shagifusa baby !


----------



## Forty Ounce

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> I mean, he did remove "as little metal as possible" to make it into a gyuto...
> 
> All things considered it looks like he's done an honest job of things, and pretty well too. If he uses the knife it'll be a hell of a lot better of a fate IMO than some cabinet queens.


Touché . I'd have to agree.
@Barclid said it well. Good stuff @ma_sha1


----------



## lemeneid

Well this is like Mercedes or BMW branding their heavily modified performance cars with AMG or M. Or would this be the other way around? 

Anyway it’s still a Shig. And well done on keeping the grind as meat as possible. Now to list it on BST and trigger a whole other group of people


----------



## ma_sha1

lemeneid said:


> Well this is like Mercedes or BMW branding their heavily modified performance cars with AMG or M. Or would this be the other way around?
> 
> Anyway it’s still a Shig. And well done on keeping the grind as meat as possible. Now to list it on BST and trigger a whole other group of people



Thanks men, that’s very kind of you


----------



## Geigs

I just wanna see it cut a carrot, call it whatever you want.


----------



## Codered

Let's see a Kato Wh being pimped/chopped up. We could do a fund raiser for Ma_sha to supply him with the project material. And while you're at it you could make a video about the process and put it on YouTube.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Chop-shopped Kato WH? Already been done.








Yoshiaki Fujiwara KATO sujihiki 240 WH | eBay


The knife is used, has been sharpened. knife is also toward a near mirror finish. It's the perfect match of slilcer and chef knife. Weight- 221g. Width of Spine at Middle- 2mm. Width of Spine Above Heel- 3.9mm.



www.ebay.com





And this is how it looked before Jon did a Ma_Sha





Withdrawn - Kato WH 240


Kato WH 240 Tall heel-45 Heel to tip 235 will go to JKI (Jon kindly agreed refinish to suji)




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## Taz575

I think the new gyuto looks very good! He has been 100% up front about it. Now if he bought a Shig, modded it, and sold it under his name as if he made the whole thing, that could be an issue. Or if he modified it and sold it as a custom made Shig (to make people think Shig custom made it for him, not that he modded it), that would be an issue. It's still a Shig in materials, heat treat, just not in profile/grind. I have no problem with what MaSha has done. He modified a knife that is his to make it what he wanted it to be and is 100% up front with what it was/is. 

I do like that finish that you did on it! I like the textured finish, but hate the feel of KU finishes, so this is a neat way to do it!


----------



## tostadas

I may have to look to you for some custom work in the future. I wanna be the only guy on the block with a CCK petty


----------



## F-Flash

Imagine if someone would turn kitaeji chuka into xxtall gyuto. That would probably be end of kkf.


----------



## M1k3

F-Flash said:


> Imagine if someone would turn kitaeji chuka into xxtall gyuto. That would probably be end of kkf.


Hopefully done in a country without strict copyright laws.


----------



## BillHanna

tostadas said:


> I may have to look to you for some custom work in the future. I wanna be the only guy on the block with a CCK petty


Please don’t change the handle.


----------



## daveb

Next challenge: Turn a Mercer into a knife!


----------



## ma_sha1

tostadas said:


> I may have to look to you for some custom work in the future. I wanna be the only guy on the block with a CCK petty



Thanks, but you are out of luck then, not directed at you but I never accept custom works, because it’ll turn my hobby into a job, and Job, is the very thing that I am escaping from with a hobby 

That said, a CCK can be turned into 3-4 Petties


----------



## tostadas

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks, but you are out of luck then, not directed at you but I never accept custom works, because it’ll turn my hobby into a job, and Job, is the very thing that I am escaping from with a hobby
> 
> That said, a CCK can be turned into 3-4 Petties



4 petties that share 1 handle. I'll take it!

edit: yea I wasn't completely serious. But... if you ever decide to do it for yourself, I'd be happy to follow your journey


----------



## Nagakin

tostadas said:


> 4 petties that share 1 handle. I'll take it!


----------



## Corradobrit1

Nagakin said:


> View attachment 88975


Crappy carrot cutter?


----------



## Gregmega

I once cut 30mm off a yo shig with an angle grinder cause no one needs a 270. Renamed it ‘Your Mom’. Fight me.


----------



## Gregmega

What else did I miss


----------



## parbaked

Gregmega said:


> I once cut 30mm off a yo shig with an angle grinder cause no one needs a 270. Renamed it ‘Your Mom’. Fight me.


I thought you did that to show you can fit a 300mm in your knife roll!
I'm joking...nothing but respect for your stuff...


----------



## tchan001

No one will really care until they see how you price 'Your Mom' on BST.


----------



## spaceconvoy

not for sale, it's a passaround


----------



## Gregmega

parbaked said:


> I thought you did that to show you can fit a 300mm in your knife roll!
> I'm joking...nothing but respect for your stuff...


Funny you mention it- I just finished the xl, fits 330 as long as you done use Samuri sword handles . So yes- I’m listening to you guys, I promise . Should be done and online next week.


----------



## Gregmega

tchan001 said:


> No one will really care until they see how you price 'Your Mom' on BST.


That’s always the trickiest part, the resale


----------



## lemeneid

Gregmega said:


> That’s always the trickiest part, the resale


WTS: Your Mom

Would be difficult getting past this thread title to begin with


----------



## Luftmensch

Corradobrit1 said:


> Chop-shopped Kato WH? Already been done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yoshiaki Fujiwara KATO sujihiki 240 WH | eBay
> 
> 
> The knife is used, has been sharpened. knife is also toward a near mirror finish. It's the perfect match of slilcer and chef knife. Weight- 221g. Width of Spine at Middle- 2mm. Width of Spine Above Heel- 3.9mm.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is how it looked before Jon did a Ma_Sha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Withdrawn - Kato WH 240
> 
> 
> Kato WH 240 Tall heel-45 Heel to tip 235 will go to JKI (Jon kindly agreed refinish to suji)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com



Full transparency.... I did consider buying that to turn it in to a project knife. I didn't feel the price was right....

I guess one point of significant difference; that Kato chop is more of a rescue (making lemonade out of lemons) than a project for the fun of it


----------



## Codered

What do you guys think about this knife?
I found the picture on IG. Is this a chopped 270 or a k-tip? If you draw the tip it's a gyuto all the way. It would be the first K-tip mimicking a gyuto.


----------



## ma_sha1

The only difference I can see between a chopped gyuto vs. k-tip is the thickness of tip section. The chopped version, without re-grinding, will have a thicker front end.


----------



## tchan001

Maybe the placement of the kanji should be further back if it were a real k-tip. I have no info on whether it is an original or not. Just pure speculation.


----------



## F-Flash

The k tip looks to have almost straight spine, maybe even some up sweeping, where the regular will have more curvature downwards after halfway.


----------



## M1k3

lemeneid said:


> WTS: Your Mom
> 
> Would be difficult getting past this thread title to begin with


PM sent. Everyone else get in line!


----------



## tchan001

You should PM Ma_Sha1 for his Shig gyuto. Then it would become work and not a hobby for him.


----------



## ma_sha1

tchan001 said:


> You should PM Ma_Sha1 for his Shig gyuto. Then it would become work and not a hobby for him.



Lol, not so, because I don’t need to respond or do anything, still just a hobby 

On the other hand, I heard some custom makers don’t respond to customers, not good work ethic IMHO.


----------



## juice

ma_sha1 said:


> On the other hand, I heard some custom makers don’t respond to customers, not good work ethic IMHO.


Maybe they're working too hard on the three years of orders they have booked to bother with new emails


----------



## ma_sha1

juice said:


> Maybe they're working too hard on the three years of orders they have booked to bother with new emails



Working too hard is an excuse to poor management of workflow. I used to manage customer support, we have a policy of “1 business day turn around” policy in response time.


----------



## juice

But if they have way more orders than they can handle already, perhaps ignoring new emails is a sensible use of time?


----------



## ma_sha1

I don’t want to derail the subject of the thread again, I am responding to the email matter one last time, then I’ll go work on the Shig. Handle 

A better managed response does not mean each email must get a customized replies. One simple strategy is two-tiered responses: One can set up a primary email, use cut & paste or even automated response, giving a general but current update to ease customer concerns, and let the customer know that that he can not discuss specific knife until his or her waiting time is up.

Then, direct customer to another email Address when his wait time is up, and handle direct discussions only with those who’s waiting list is up, it’ll be only a few at a time, easy to engage. The two tiered strategy will prevent the rest of the customers from unnecessary worries, & speculating if the guy is out of business, took his deposit & run, or go on forum spreading concerns etc. 

There are many ways to achieve customer support efficiency, ignoring customer email is not one of them. 

Now, it’s Handle time


----------



## lemeneid

juice said:


> But if they have way more orders than they can handle already, perhaps ignoring new emails is a sensible use of time?


I think we've been down that road already with some makers here taking on more than they can handle. And possibly taking customers money in the process. 
Ignoring emails/texts is just a sh1tty excuse whether you are replying to an existing or prospective customer.


----------



## bryan03

ma_sha1 said:


> I don’t want to derail the subject of the thread again, I am responding to the email matter one last time, then I’ll go work on the Shig. Handle
> 
> A better managed response does not mean each email must get a customized replies. One simple strategy is two-tiered responses: One can set up a primary email, use cut & paste or even automated response, giving a general but current update to ease customer concerns, and let the customer know that that he can not discuss specific knife until his or her waiting time is up.
> 
> Then, direct customer to another email Address when his wait time is up, and handle direct discussions only with those who’s waiting list is up, it’ll be only a few at a time, easy to engage. The two tiered strategy will prevent the rest of the customers from unnecessary worries, & speculating if the guy is out of business, took his deposit & run, or go on forum spreading concerns etc.
> 
> There are many ways to achieve customer support efficiency, ignoring customer email is not one of them.
> 
> Now, it’s Handle time



you are ready to explain how to manage a full time knife making job but you are not ready to understand spending 4h to grind a quenched knife on a woodworking tool is a shity job ?
Good.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Nothing shonky about that K-tip Kato WH.


----------



## ma_sha1

Moving on, here is a sneak preview of the handle to reel the donkey back onto the mill.

I am going for a cold b&w color scheme: buffalo horn face plate - buffalo bone Ferrule - burnt chestnut handle, inspired by one of Mario’s handles where he used bone for the ferrule between dark face plate & dark handle.

I really dig that look but will never be caught holding that knife, you know why? He used oosik, aka penis bone for the ferrule 

So, I am doing a PG-13 version of this Mario handle . Still lot of clean-up & polishing to do, but here is the look I am going for, what do you think?


----------



## daveb

Sounds good on paper, nice contrast but looks too big for me.


----------



## ma_sha1

daveb said:


> Sounds good on paper, nice contrast but looks too big for me.



It does look a little big, but I think its mostly due to the angle that the picture was taken from. The handle is closer to the lens than the blade, so it appears larger.

What about in this photo?


----------



## Taz575

For most, I think it will look a touch big in the height of it. For me, if I use a small handle, my hands cramp up and go numb and tingly after a while, so I will often make handles for my personal knives a little bigger so it doesn't bother my hands as much.


----------



## ma_sha1

I’ll do some adjustments on the height when finishing. I’ll use my hand to judge the fit, it needs to fill my palm snug & naturally.

I am very picky, never had a knife that I didn’t tweak the handle myself, they are either too thick, or too narrow, or too long, never one that arrived fitting my hand just right. I haven’t run into one that’s too short yet.


----------



## daveb

IME a smaller handle lets you change postilion easier and the wa lets you roll the knife a bit for more dexterity. Big plus on a small nimble knife meant to be versatile. A larger handle is preferred for an "all day" knife. To me it looks a bit large.


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> Moving on, here is a sneak preview of the handle to reel the donkey back onto the mill.
> 
> 
> View attachment 89044


The handle on that donkey got a bit too much bulk


----------



## Gregmega

I once cut a 270 Kato WH down into a 240 K-tip with angle grinder cause I do what I want and that’s final. Now it’s called a work pony.


----------



## ma_sha1

Gregmega said:


> I once cut a 270 Kato WH down into a 240 K-tip with angle grinder cause I do what I want and that’s final. Now it’s called a work pony.




Very well, but do you know the difference between a work pony & work donky?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Gregmega said:


> I once cut a 270 Kato WH down into a 240 K-tip with angle grinder cause I do what I want and that’s final. Now it’s called a work pony.


If you did that 'Work Ass' is more appropriate for a smart ass


----------



## Gregmega

Lolz good one


----------



## Jville

bryan03 said:


> you are ready to explain how to manage a full time knife making job but you are not ready to understand spending 4h to grind a quenched knife on a woodworking tool is a shity job ?
> Good.


Yeah, I would like to hear more what knife makers think on chop shopping a knife out of a knife and acting like it's a knife from the original maker. Again, I'm not accussing Ma Sha of trying to do something shady like pass it off as unmodified. But it's more than a little modification. If someone did this to your knife Bryan, would you think it should still be called a Raquin?


----------



## ma_sha1

Dude, let it go already. I don’t really care, I doubt other do as well but you are getting a bit obsessed on this. 

IMHO, you should start another thread asking for it, not directed at you but the thread constantly getting pulled off track is getting a bit annoying.


----------



## Gregmega

Jville said:


> Yeah, I would like to hear more what knife makers think on chop shopping a knife out of a knife and acting like it's a knife from the original maker. Again, I'm not accussing Ma Sha of trying to do something shady like pass it off as unmodified. But it's more than a little modification. If someone did this to your knife Bryan, would you think it should still be called a Raquin?


This kinda is a ridiculous thread to pull off the sweater honestly. I have knives that are 15 years old that have been fixed over the years from broken tips to chunks missing and so on. I have knives that started as gyutos and are now little line knives like a baby suji. I’ve done them myself and had good people like Jon and Josh at JKI handle them. Doesn’t change the brand. Doesn’t change that I don’t use them, they just started a new life. These things are tools. This is not a binary situation. There is no right or wrong. That’s why I make those jokes about cutting inches off shigs and katos. Because if it’s my knife and I want to alter it, I will. If you actually use your knives- they’re gonna change. This is not up for debate. So what do you call your knife after you’ve thinned it because the performance has started to suffer after a year of regular use? I’ve had Kev thin my problem knives to better effect than when they are new- including makeks who are mentioned here in this thread.

I do recognize that this is a different version of ‘changing a knife’ but let’s not walk down the false equivalence line of logic.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Gregmega said:


> So what do you call your knife after you’ve thinned it because the performance has started to suffer after a year of regular use?


A vastly improved TF


----------



## Gregmega

Corradobrit1 said:


> A vastly improved TF


I really couldn’t have said it better.


----------



## daveb

With a TF you prob couldn't tell where the factory ended and the mod began.  

And Ma, by starting this thread you did invite comment, some of it will be unfavorable, some may become repetitious but until it's personal......


----------



## Gregmega

Also OP- maybe not on the same level- but I used to hit flea markets and find old crusty carbon Sabs and the like. I’d rehab them. TO THIS DAY one of my favorite knives all time is a vintage Sab that I cleaned up and re-profiled into an 8” suji, and it stayed in my kit for years and cooked in something like 9 countries, despite trying to find its ‘superior Japanese replacement’. No one ever questions how it came to be. Or the fact that I literally re-profiled it on the concrete slab in my backyard before I took it to the stones. It’s still a Sab. And I still use it. And it’s irreplaceable in my collection. Still a Sab.


----------



## M1k3

If I modified my Nissa Pathfinder by taking the roof off, is it no longer a Nissan Pathfinder? Or would it be a M1k3finder?


----------



## parbaked

I cut off my 501's way too short.
My butt cheeks hang out.
I don't want to call them Steve jeans.
I hope Levi's don't sue me...


----------



## ma_sha1

M1k3 said:


> If I modified my Nissa Pathfinder by taking the roof off, is it no longer a Nissan Pathfinder? Or would it be a M1k3finder?



its a topless pathfinder


----------



## ma_sha1

parbaked said:


> I cut off my 501's way too short.
> My butt cheeks hang out.
> I don't want to call them Steve jeans.
> I hope Levi's don't sue me...



This one got to change the name to the “plumber’s special”, maybe Levi will pay you


----------



## ian

M1k3 said:


> If I modified my Nissa Pathfinder by taking the roof off, is it no longer a Nissan Pathfinder? Or would it be a M1k3finder?



Phuh... I always know where to find you.

Kkkkkkkkitchenknifeforums.com,

7 days a week.


----------



## daveb

parbaked said:


> I cut off my 501's way too short.
> My butt cheeks hang out.
> I don't want to call them Steve jeans.
> I hope Levi's don't sue me...



In SF you can do most anything.....And call it most anything.... As long as the jeans consent.


----------



## Jville

Gregmega said:


> This kinda is a ridiculous thread to pull off the sweater honestly. I have knives that are 15 years old that have been fixed over the years from broken tips to chunks missing and so on. I have knives that started as gyutos and are now little line knives like a baby suji. I’ve done them myself and had good people like Jon and Josh at JKI handle them. Doesn’t change the brand. Doesn’t change that I don’t use them, they just started a new life. These things are tools. This is not a binary situation. There is no right or wrong. That’s why I make those jokes about cutting inches off shigs and katos. Because if it’s my knife and I want to alter it, I will. If you actually use your knives- they’re gonna change. This is not up for debate. So what do you call your knife after you’ve thinned it because the performance has started to suffer after a year of regular use? I’ve had Kev thin my problem knives to better effect than when they are new- including makeks who are mentioned here in this thread.
> 
> I do recognize that this is a different version of ‘changing a knife’ but let’s not walk down the false equivalence line of logic.


Yeah, I totally get it, of course, after you used a knife awhile and sharpen it over years, thin it wear it down etc. It's not going to be the same as it was in the begining. It's a tool that wore down and changed. But my point is, that this is a knife forum where we sit around obsess over things like grinds of a knife, especially grinds. And that we consider it an art to make a knife. The fake distal taper that Ma Sha keeps referencing is not a fake distal taper, at least I don't think that's the case. The grind probably is convexing towards the spine and it was probably purposeful. So if you chop a shape out of it it totally changes everything, especially when you totally regrind a knife and it doesn't appear to look anything like a shig grind.


----------



## Gregmega

I’m not saying I’m right or he’s right or anyone is wrong, I’m just saying it’s a bit absolutist to call this anything different than what happens to a knife over time anyway, I mean at least for people who do use their knives as intended. Almost none of my knives have their original grind, technically after they’ve been sharpened, they’re forever changed. Oh, the stories Jon could tell you when he sees me swinging the door open at JKI.


----------



## M1k3

Jville said:


> Yeah, I totally get it, of course, after you used a knife awhile and sharpen it over years, thin it wear it down etc. It's not going to be the same as it was in the begining. It's a tool that wore down and changed. But my point is, that this is a knife forum where we sit around obsess over things like grinds of a knife, especially grinds. And that we consider it an art to make a knife. The fake distal taper that Ma Sha keeps referencing is not a fake distal taper, at least I don't think that's the case. The grind probably is convexing towards the spine and it was probably purposeful. So if you chop a shape out of it it totally changes everything, especially when you totally regrind a knife and it doesn't appear to look anything like a shig grind.


SO WHAT!


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> Phuh... I always know where to find you.
> 
> Kkkkkkkkitchenknifeforums.com,
> 
> 7 days a week.


Still get internet in my Pathfinder. It can hold tools too. Time to buy a saw and continue calling my car a Pathfinder. I'll just never take it to Bulgaria with their crazy copyright laws. Hopefully someone doesn't argue repeatedly over and over the fact that's not how the manufacturer intended it to be used.


----------



## parbaked

Nissan never exported the Pathfinder to Bulgaria because they were deeply concerned that some crazy Bulgarian would modify one and get sued...


----------



## ma_sha1

Jville said:


> The fake distal taper that Ma Sha keeps referencing is not a fake distal taper, at least I don't think that's the case.
> 
> The grind probably is convexing towards the spine and it was probably purposeful.



I thought I explained “fake distal taper” early on?

A functional spine distal taper carries the thinness drown to the edge. The Shig. Nakiri had a distal taper only surface deep at the spine, you can see the thickness of steel at the top front below the spine after I cut it open, it’s as thick as if there’ no distal taper.

To prove my point, I even recreated the fake distal taper with photo in one of my posts. Because I did spine to edge convex grind, the spine thickness was not changed much.

Learned from Shig. from this DIY project, I did “distal chamfer” on the spine, basically starts in the back rounding the spine, more rounding at the front, this creates an optical illusion of a distal taper.

Sorry to burst your bubbles, but the blade above the bevel was flat, not convexing towards the spine.


----------



## Vionlad

I think there should be a pass around after it’s done. Either you like it or don’t but unless you use it you will never know.


----------



## Codered




----------



## juice

parbaked said:


> Nissan never exported the Pathfinder to Bulgaria because they were deeply concerned that some crazy Bulgarian would modify one and get sued...


You're just mad because I got called racist and you didn't, aren't you?


----------



## ma_sha1

Please don’t use the “R” word in my thread!
That’s why the thread was locked last time, Admin had to clean-up the ****.

Stay away from the R word If you don’t want get banned, I can see it coming...


----------



## M1k3

ma_sha1 said:


> Please don’t use the “R” word in my thread!
> That’s why the thread was locked last time, Admin had to clean-up the ****.
> 
> Stay away from the R word If you don’t want get banned, I can see it coming...


Rust?


----------



## Corradobrit1

M1k3 said:


> Rust?


I think he means Revision


----------



## ma_sha1

You guys are Ruthless


----------



## M1k3

ma_sha1 said:


> You guys are Ruthless


I thought you were going to say Ridiculous.


----------



## juice

Recidivists


----------



## David7777777777

I just want to chime in real quick because I was the original owner of the knife. to clarify as some people said the knife was already ruined or they justification that the knife was junk.

But also because the whole project needs to be judged on its own merit now and from the standpoint of taking something and crafting something new
not from the standpoint of fixing problems or whatever because that does take away from the work that Ma has done and the vision he had for this project.

I think originally the whole thing about the distal taper things started as a defense mechanism because of my post about being disappointed that it was going to become a project knife instead of something that someone could try out.
Believe me, I've re-exammed my own thoughts and philosophies about where the dividing line is as far as adjusting or fixing a knife to give justice to the quality of the blacksmithing versus something else.

Or or maybe it was the difference between experience handling things that have a more symmetrical manufactured feel.
Some of the best makers have subtle blade shaping or a convex that almost doesn't make any sense until you actually use it.
Specifically knives by this maker or Kato or even something like my Marko WH.
That's what makes them masters of their craft and that's why they're coveted and hunted after versus something that is manufactured in a factory.

The grind and the distal taper where everything that you would expect from a maker who forged a knife and then handcrafted it with experience and love and what they thought was the ideal grind and shape for this particular blade when they were making it.
What little KU finish what's left on the blade was basically taking off mostly using 4k grit sandpaper and rust erasers. because I wanted to make sure that I did not change the makers original grind too much. So we can just put it end to that line of thinking please.

There were a few hammer marks on the right side of the blade and there was at least one hammer mark on the left side of the blade and I really do feel like these added to the food release but also more importantly whoever shaped the blade left in there because they know more than I do and they were the ones making it.
The left side of the blade was flatter than the right side of the blade and I've seen that in a lot of my favorite knives. It's not quite to the point of being a single bevel but it does make a difference in the way it performs.

slight asymmetrical shaping that almost impossible to measure but you see it on a lot of these knives that are crafted from start to finish by one set of hands or by this family. Another example would be
on the right side of the blade closer to the heel there was this transition in the shaping that I've seen on knives from a few different makers.
I guess in a way having that right side of the blade shaped in such a way that it pushes food away and pushes through.
Describing it would sound like a manufacturing defect but in practice this slight shaping actually allows the knife to have really good food release near the heel and it still makes it comfortable to grab and a pinch grip while keeping the edge thin.

I was recently fortunate enough to have Marko make me one of his workhorse knives.
when you're talking to a maker they ask you what your preferences are and then they make you a knife. Until I actually had the knife in person and was able to run my fingers along the surface of the blade and use it for the last few months I don't think I could have described the grind that he put on this. if I was going to try to do that myself I'm sure I could get it to cut well but there's no way in hell that I could come close to the magic that he put on that. Believe me the fit finish on this thing is perfect but there is a subtle finishing that he did because with his experience he knew what needed to happen to make this knife cut as awesome as it does.
And that's what makes it a knife by that maker.


As far as the blade face is not being flat that was why I thought I should chime in a little bit.

If you were talking about a comparison of the way the knife originally was versus something like konosuke which tend to have very high levels of fit finish and symmetry...
then yeah the blade faces weren't flat but a lot of times they aren't on knives of this particular style and it's part of the reason why they perform so well because of that shaping.
It gives it that mojo.
That's why some knives are so revered and loved because even though the grind might be not perfect robotic ground exact angles of perfection....
They're awesome to use and then give you this feeling when you using them that you can't quantify necessarily.

This knife in particular was an excellent example of that which is kind of why I had my initial heartbreak and overreaction aside from the fact that I originally tried to do something that I thought was going to be fair and a positive for people that I respect and whom share the same obsession and passion as I do about kitchen knives.

As far as this knife as it is now,
The initial work is done and I hope that Ma continues to fine tune it so that it does have that intangible magic again more than just a manufactured symmetrical measured remanufactured product.

As far as it being a shigefusa or not anymore there's no easy answers but knives like shigs are a sum of their total parts.
So it is something different now. I think that's what some people were trying to say it's just impossible to explain that until you know it and experience it.

I definitely would like to see updates or even a video after a few weeks of use.


----------



## ma_sha1

Relentless


----------



## Jville

Regrind


----------



## Midsummer

Rastafarian


----------



## ian

Isn’t the prospect of Resale the topic that should be avoided, for comity’s sake?


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> Isn’t the prospect of Resale the topic that should be avoided, for comity’s sake?


PM sent
GLWS


----------



## Gregmega

No I think it was Re-profiled


----------



## Corradobrit1

Recycled


----------



## ma_sha1

Reborn


----------



## Corradobrit1

Resurrected


----------



## ma_sha1

I am *Receptive* to forum suggestions
I *Reground* the handle to *Reduce* the height
I *Reapplied* burning to the chestnut handle
I *Resanded* the handle & ferrule to 600/2000
I *Reuploaded* photo to KKF, I feel *Relaxed*


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> I am *Receptive* to forum suggestions
> I *Reground* the handle to *Reduce* the height
> I *Reapplied* burning to the chestnut handle
> I *Resanded* the handle & ferrule to 2000/600
> I *Reuploaded* photo to KKF, I feel *Relaxed* n


So the donkey is now a *Racehorse*? We have now gone full circle


----------



## ian

ma_sha1 said:


> I am *Receptive* to forum suggestions
> I *Reground* the handle to *Reduce* the height
> I *Reapplied* burning to the chestnut handle
> I *Resanded* the handle & ferrule to 600/2000
> I *Reuploaded* photo to KKF, I feel *Relaxed*
> 
> View attachment 89160


did you sharpie the blade road?


----------



## daveb

Reconsider. Handle is still to big


----------



## soigne_west

This whole thread gives me a headache. Knife is coming along well though.


----------



## daveb

Are you saying it causes an unpleasant reaction? Really?


----------



## ma_sha1

ian said:


> did you sharpie the blade road?


No, I was only working on the handle.


----------



## tchan001

Please *Release* your video of its performance.


----------



## ian

ma_sha1 said:


> No, I was only working on the handle.



Heh, why is it so black then? That can't just be the light, can it? Or did you etch it?


----------



## ma_sha1

tchan001 said:


> Please *Release* your video of its performance.



I don’t do video but I can do a brief review when I have it sharpened up. Not sure it’ll be as sharp as my laserish Kurosaki 180, but I wanted a heavier small gyuto to do some light duty chopping. The Kurosaki is a bit fragile for chopping. The Shig. weights -160g vs Kurosaki 130 gram.


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> Heh, why is it so black then? That can't just be the light, can it? Or did you etch it?


Refracting light.


----------



## ma_sha1

ian said:


> Heh, why is it so black then? That can't just be the light, can it? Or did you etch it?



It’s a bit darker due to lighting but I did burn it near black for contrast, & try to match the buffalo horn face plate of the ferrule.

Edit: just realized you meant the blade, it’s just reflection.


----------



## ian

ma_sha1 said:


> It’s a bit darker due to lighting but I did burn it near black for contrast, & try to match the buffalo horn face plate of the ferrule.



I was talking about the blade road. Couldn't believe it was just the light, but I guess it is!

Btw, where'd you get the chestnut wood?


----------



## JDC

ma_sha1 said:


> It does look a little big, but I think its mostly due to the angle that the picture was taken from. The handle is closer to the lens than the blade, so it appears larger.
> 
> What about in this photo?
> View attachment 89045


It is the black spacer between the bone made the knife that really bothers me, the colors don’t flow naturally bcuz of that.


----------



## ma_sha1

JDC said:


> It is the black spacer between the bone made the knife that really bothers me, the colors don’t flow naturally bcuz of that.



what you mean black saver? You mean the black face plate in front of the ferrule?


----------



## ma_sha1

ian said:


> I was talking about the blade road. Couldn't believe it was just the light, but I guess it is!
> 
> Btw, where'd you get the chestnut wood?



It’s just the light. American chestnut off eBay.


----------



## parbaked

Handle looks too small now...did you save the shavings so you can build it back up a little?
Also change the faceplate to something that doesn't bother people.
I hope you know where I am coming from...


----------



## Corradobrit1

Faceplate is a faux pas


----------



## ma_sha1

Corradobrit1 said:


> Faceplate is a faux pas



Saw it from a Mario gyuto, love it.


----------



## JDC

ma_sha1 said:


> what you mean black saver? You mean the black face plate in front of the ferrule?


Right, the face plate, it might look better if the finish is kurouchi


----------



## juice

Repulsive, the faceplate is, you say?


----------



## parbaked

faceplate = codpiece = awesome!


----------



## ma_sha1

“Stop the Faceplate hate!

RRLOVER“

Mario 280 with the FP:


----------



## ma_sha1

Got up early before work & did a first-time sharpening of the knife, I had forgotten how sweet the Swedish steel felt on the stones, it’s been a long time since I chopped another Shig.

I used King 1000 followed by Rika 5K, with DMT angle guide, which is very easy to maintain constant edge angle with:


----------



## ma_sha1

DMT does wonders, $20 turns a beginner into an instant pro. A couple of things I felt might be useful to share, especially with beginners of sharpening. 

1, Ignore ALL expert opinions on free-hand sharpening, & use an angle guide, you’ll thank me later.

2, It’s very very important when using the angle guide, that you set the height of finishing stone just a hair lower than the main sharpening stone (1k here). This will raise the knife angle slightly, ensure that you hit the edge created by the first stone. If it’s the other way around, the finishing stone will hit the shoulder of the edge, & you’ll just see a lot of mud but nothing happening to the edge. Here I raised the Rika with rubber feet to the desired height, just a hair below the King 1k.






3, Maintain the stone flatness after each use. All I use is a corse stone, 240, 500, 800, what ever you have, doesn’t matter, no need for dedicated “flattening stone“. Here is my Rika after use & flattened back to like new with a few strokes. If you do this after every use, it’s effortless.


----------



## ian

Interesting. Haven’t seen one of those DMT guides before.


----------



## ma_sha1

ian said:


> Interesting. Haven’t seen one of those DMT guides before.



I wonder why, maybe too cheap to make money, so no body bothers to promote it?

I do see lots promotions on the other type of angle guide, expensive & you can’t use your own stones either.


----------



## demirtasem

ma_sha1 said:


> I used King 1000 followed by Rika 5K, with DMT angle guide, which is very easy to maintain constant edge angle with:



Do you use edge leading strokes or trailing strokes with DMT angle guide?


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

ma_sha1 said:


> I wonder why, maybe too cheap to make money, so no body bothers to promote it?
> 
> I do see lots promotions on the other type of angle guide, expensive & you can’t use your own stones either.



Do you find it to be similar in speed to freehand sharpening, or does the guide slow you down?

Also, a video would be great to show the finish, it looks different every picture you take.


----------



## ma_sha1

demirtasem said:


> Do you use edge leading strokes or trailing strokes with DMT angle guide?



I do it both ways, but maybe I should slow down & do trailing only at 5K, I am not as patient as I should, my edge could be sharper, still lots to learn.


----------



## ma_sha1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Do you find it to be similar in speed to freehand sharpening, or does the guide slow you down?
> 
> Also, a video would be great to show the finish, it looks different every picture you take.




For me, it’s faster with the guide because every stroke is right on the money. Free-hand is more convenient when you have lots of stones, no need to match the height. With DMT, stone height matching is critical, luckily I don’t have lots of stones, otherwise i’d have to custom make feet for each stone.

When I started as a noob, I watched videos & took advices on free-hand sharpening, ended up dulling every knife I “sharpened”, really pisses me off. The inexpensive angle guide saved my day.

I don’t do videos, not trying to go Ryky on people, just want to raise awareness so maybe some beginners could save some headaches by starting out angle guide, move to free-hand later.


----------



## Garm

How does the knife perform? Have you tested it yet?


----------



## ma_sha1

Garm said:


> How does the knife perform? Have you tested it yet?



Not yet, planning to do some cutting during lunch break to have a feel.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Bring it on


----------



## lemeneid

If it silently goes through the middle of a carrot, I'm buying it!!!!

Honestly though, would love to see some cutting videos


----------



## tchan001

A knife with a brand name and a story. Seems to be a lot of sharks in the background that wants to bite once the performance is confirmed that this is a unique marvel.


----------



## Forty Ounce

I'd still like to see a video showing *Reflections*. Don't be scared.. I'll be gentle..


----------



## ma_sha1

No video as I said before, & not for selling as I made it for myself. But I’ll do a quick review based my quick & dirty lunch cutting test. 

My 180 AS Fujin is quite a looker, but it’s not been in use much, there’s a few things I want in the small prep knife that Fujin doesn’t provide, I wanted a lite kit more weight, a little more blade forward balance, a little talker, a bit more feed-back during cutting. 

So far I’ve achieved several of these. The Shig Gyuto weight in at 158g vs. Fujin 132g, check. 48mm tall vs 45 mm, check. The balance is half inch ahead of the heel instead of behind if the heel, check, Kato like full convex grind gives good feedback, check.


----------



## ma_sha1

Lite duty cutting test: Small carrots, leeks etc: Leeks cutting was perfect, & the small carrot cutting were pretty sweet.

The Fujin went Through small carrots easily but without much feedback, The Shig. Went through the carrots with relative ease, but also with great feedback, it felt smooth, lite & consistent resistance that wasn’t there with the Fujin.

The feeling is similar to a good stone, where cutting steel fast isn’t everything, the feedback during the cut is equally important, it made me feel that I am in touch, I am in control.


----------



## daveb

Upvote for the footwear.

And what did those carrots ever do to you?


----------



## Corradobrit1

daveb said:


> Upvote for the footwear.
> 
> And what did those carrots ever do to you?


Its a crime scene


----------



## ma_sha1

Unfortunately, the last part of the test, the quick chop, didn’t go too well for the Shig.

I tested green squash & potato, where I sliced them in half, then use quick chop motion to make thin slices.

Fujin went through without issues, Shig.’s increased resistance caused frequent interruptions, essentially failed the quick chop test. The quick chop uses only the front half of the knife, it’s the thickest portion in the original Nakiri (I had a photo of it at the start of the project).

The increase weight & forward balance both plays in favor of Shig. already, so I think it just need some more thinning towards the front.

Shig., after failing the potato quick chop test:


----------



## Barclid

That bevel looks thick. Definitely still needs to be thinned throughout.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Choil shot?


----------



## Matus

ma_sha1 said:


> I don’t do video but I can do a brief review when I have it sharpened up.



You are basically becoming a KKF influencer. Not making a video is not really an option anymore.


----------



## ian

I know I’m naming my second child ma_sha1.


----------



## ma_sha1

Matus said:


> You are basically becoming a KKF influencer. Not making a video is not really an option anymore.



I refuse to be the influencer 


Corradobrit1 said:


> Choil shot?



Unfortunately, choil shot is as misleading as distal taper, if not more so. From the choil shot, you’d think I am there already. The choil can’t represent what’s happening at the front end.


Shig.





Fujin:


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> I refuse to be an influenc
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, choil shot is as misleading as distal taper, if not more so. From the choil shot, you’d think I am there already. The choil can’t represent what’s happening at the front end.
> 
> 
> Shig.
> View attachment 89235
> 
> 
> Fujin:
> View attachment 89236


True, it still a useful data point. Tweaking the front end shouldn't be a big deal for a hobbiest of your calibre.


----------



## tostadas

ian said:


> I know I’m naming my second child ma_sha1.



The most used phrase in that child's life will be "The _ is silent"


----------



## ma_sha1

Matus said:


> You are basically becoming a KKF influencer. Not making a video is not really an option anymore.



Thank you sir, you are very kind.


----------



## juice

You don't choose influencing, influencing chooses you


----------



## madelinez

Dumb question, how do you prevent the quenched steel overheating when grinding (I'm assuming you didn't do the whole thing on stones)?


----------



## ma_sha1

juice said:


> You don't choose influencing, influencing chooses you



Thank god for America, I have the freedom to refuse to be chosen


----------



## M1k3




----------



## ma_sha1

madelinez said:


> Dumb question, how do you prevent the quenched steel overheating when grinding (I'm assuming you didn't do the whole thing on stones)?



That’s ok, I answered it earlier but it’s burried deep. The 3x21 Variable speed grinder was set to lowest speed, very slow, won’t heat up the blade.


----------



## ma_sha1

Radical changes have been made in preparation to the round 2 of the quick chop test.

I’ve thinned down the entire knife with focus on the front half, & also removed the stone washed finish to reduce drag.

I hand finished it with 600 grit finger papers (Small sand papers instead of stone) for the vertical hairline style resemble the Kato WH that I had.

To ease the concern of those who were terrified at the thought that this knife might end up on BST one day as a regular stock Shig., I left a “Landing strip” of the stone washed finish at the neck area.

Can’t wait until lunch break, wish me luck .


----------



## daveb

And it still has the Shig kanji

And the sun still came up in the east

And the handle is still too fat

Keep on trucking


----------



## ma_sha1

daveb said:


> And the handle is still too fat



Thanks Dave, can I ask you a favor? No more handle body shaming please, & accept her the way she is? 

She fits in my hand perfectly, I love her just the way she is, no more trimming   .


----------



## Jville

Big handles need love too.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

I like the clean finish. Posted for round 2 results. Good luck

Also nobody can tell how big a handle is if 80% is covered by your hand lol I think it looks nice. Looks blueish on my screen for some reason though


----------



## daveb

Hey now, you post, people comment. I won't say I've never done fat - I just don't let my friends see me.


----------



## Forty Ounce

@ma_sha1 so.. above the heel, where I've marked, the reflections are showing that the thinning doesn't transition properly into the rest of the knife.. time to push the heel up a bit more and blend the convexity better.


----------



## Forty Ounce

Also, if you would just make a video showing the reflections clearly, we could help ya more


----------



## Garm

It looks really nice now IMO. Good job!


----------



## ma_sha1

Forty Ounce said:


> @ma_sha1 so.. above the heel, where I've marked, the reflections are showing that the thinning doesn't transition properly into the rest of the knife.. time to push the heel up a bit more and blend the convexity better.



Thanks, I saw that too. There’s a slight low spot above that location which somehow caused the reflection appears to have a high line or shinogi there, it’s not really there. That said, the Kanji side does have a hidden Shinogi transition higher up, below the Kanji. To persevere the Kanji, I was not able to convex the whole face like the back side, did what I can to blend away the real shinogi line. 

To have it done 100% perfectly, the only option is to grind away the Kanji, then re-engrave it. I sure hope that no one will be suggesting that


----------



## JDC

Although I didn't like the face plate, I have to admit that it works much better with this clean finish!


----------



## Forty Ounce

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks, I saw that too. There’s a slight low spot above that location which somehow caused the reflection appears to have a high line or shinogi there, it’s not really there. That said, the Kanji side does have a hidden Shinogi transition higher up, below the Kanji. To persevere the Kanji, I was not able to convex the whole face like the back side, did what I can to blend away the real shinogi line.
> 
> To have it done 100% perfectly, the only option is to grind away the Kanji, then re-engrave it. I sure hope that no one will be suggesting that
> 
> View attachment 89268
> View attachment 89269


Oh yeah, I see it.
Looks like the backside could use more thinning btw.. the hamaguri is too extreme for good performance


----------



## ma_sha1

Forty Ounce said:


> Oh yeah, I see it.
> Looks like the backside could use more thinning btw.. the hamaguri is too extreme for good performance



Thanks, I’ll keep that option for later. Since I am going for a “Workdonkey” grind, I dont want it too thin. I don’t like that the choil already starting to look like Kurosaki Fujin, don’t want to go too far. I can always grind more, but I won’t be able to put steel back.

Right now the rear cuts very well, just need to improve the front for round 2 chopping test.


----------



## Forty Ounce

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks, I’ll keep that option for later. Since I am going for a “Workdonkey” grind, I dont want it too thin. I don’t like that the choil already starting to look like Kurosaki Fujin, don’t want to go too far. I can always grind more, but I won’t be able to put steel back.
> 
> Right now the rear cuts very well, just need to improve the front for round 2 chopping test.


Have you considered doing the rest on stones?? Probably the best and safest option..


----------



## ma_sha1

Forty Ounce said:


> Have you considered doing the rest on stones?? Probably the best and safest option..



Not really, I have various belt set-ups, no stones, no stone skills either.


----------



## ma_sha1

JDC said:


> Although I didn't like the face plate, I have to admit that it works much better with this clean finish!



Thanks,
Another reason for the Mario face plate is that I have a Mario coming in the mail, super excited


----------



## OnionSlicer

ma_sha1 said:


> To have it done 100% perfectly, the only option is to grind away the Kanji, then re-engrave it. I sure hope that no one will be suggesting that



You should totally do it so we can have another 10 pages of panties getting tied in knots. Thread getting too friendly.


----------



## ma_sha1

HaHa, round two testing was a success 
Quick chop went through potato with flying colors, & left it there in a neat pile.

Cut up some semi-frozen meat along with leek & carrots, all went into my lunch stir-fry, so yummy


----------



## ian

ma_sha1 said:


> To have it done 100% perfectly, the only option is to grind away the Kanji, then re-engrave it. I sure hope that no one will be suggesting that





ian said:


> Full convex on the right side, erase the Shig kanji and replace with ma_sha kanji.
> 
> Or even better, grind the kanji off and then try to redo it with a chisel!


----------



## parbaked

Scratch "Hello ShiDIY" on the other side of the blade....


----------



## timebard

How does it compare in terms of cutting performance to its original nakiri form?

I somehow missed this thread between all the Jose posts and this is way more entertaining. Puts my hesitation to do a little thinning work on a Mazaki into perspective...


----------



## Jville

So basically ma Sha, it almost chops as good as a shig nakiri .


----------



## ma_sha1

timebard said:


> How does it compare in terms of cutting performance to its original nakiri form?
> 
> I somehow missed this thread between all the Jose posts and this is way more entertaining. Puts my hesitation to do a little thinning work on a Mazaki into perspective...



Sorry, the only thing I cut with the Nakiri was my table saw, & it lost


----------



## Jville

ma_sha1 said:


> Sorry, the only thing I cut with the Nakiri was my table saw, & it lost


----------



## timebard

ma_sha1 said:


> Sorry, the only thing I cut with the Nakiri was my table saw, & it lost



Not even a little test cut? Afraid you'd get attached and not have the heart to butcher it?


----------



## ma_sha1

timebard said:


> Not even a little test cut? Afraid you'd get attached and not have the heart to butcher it?



None, I am a Gyuto guy, no interest in Gyuto with a broken front end or Chinese Cleaver with it’s bottom half missing


----------



## ma_sha1

Jville said:


> So basically ma Sha, it almost chops as good as a shig nakiri .



It could be, but you’ll never know .

Growing up with Chinese Cleaver, i can’t stomach a cleaver with the bottom half missing 

Curren knives are all gyutos, who needs a gyuto with the entire front end gone?


----------



## Jville

ma_sha1 said:


> It could be, but you’ll never know .
> 
> Growing up with Chinese Cleaver, i can’t stomach a cleaver with the bottom half missing
> 
> Curren knives are all gyutos, who needs a gyuto with the entire front end gone?


Oh, I know .


----------



## Korpulentny

I just wanna say I really respect you @ma_sha1 for doing what you clearly planned to do and not caring too much about people telling you you're wrong. And also to say I find what you did to the Shig ballsy in just the right kind of way. Every evening this week I open KKF just to see this one thread (along with unpopular opinions sometimes). Cheers and have fun


----------



## soigne_west

So when your done with this is it going up on BST for original price + labor and materials? Asking for a friend.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

soigne_west said:


> So when your done with this is it going up on BST for original price + labor and materials? Asking for a friend.


----------



## ma_sha1

Thanks, but I am not selling this knife, too much work had gone into it, & especially after I just gave it a nickname: The Workdonkey!

I am emotionally attached, my very first DIY knife that had earned a nick name 

I am selling other knives to create a spot for workdonkey in my knife block.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Register than name pronto before the next Shiganihilator  gets ideas


----------



## ma_sha1

Moment of weakness, I cave in & made a video:


In case you are wondering who's barking? It's our new puppy: Baby Panda


----------



## juice

ma_sha1 said:


> Moment of weakness, I cave in & made a video


Didn't take long! I warned you that you had no agency in the influencer space in terms of personal choice


----------



## Corradobrit1

I vote the cute puppy for official KKF mascot


----------



## daveb

About that handle.......


----------



## juice

Corradobrit1 said:


> I vote the cute puppy for KKF mascot


I think we should wait a few months to see what it turns into, given who owns it...


----------



## Corradobrit1

juice said:


> I think we should wait a few months to see what it turns into, given who owns it...


You mean its not a real panda?


----------



## James

Impressive performance


----------



## TSF415

soigne_west said:


> So when your done with this is it going up on BST for original price + labor and materials? Asking for a friend.



I think you forgot to also add the appreciation of the price of shigs.


----------



## tostadas

ma_sha1 said:


> Moment of weakness, I cave in & made a video:
> 
> 
> In case you are wondering who's barking? It's our new puppy: Baby Panda




How do I downvote this for not being 4k?


----------



## Jville

What knife is that? Is that a Toyama? Looks good.


----------



## tchan001

It's a ma_sha1 workdonkey modified from what was once a Shig nakiri. Other members refer to it as the Shiganihilator amongst other names.
If you think it is a Toyoma, I'm sure someone has a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

If you enjoy ma_sha1's work, he has something special for you on BST.





WTS - Tanaka Sekiso 210 Yo handle DIY conversion


Bored between DIYs, & running out of slots to keep my knives. As hard as it feels, I must let some go. I made this Yo conversion in the thread below, I really wanted to create something special, something no one else has done before, I was happy with what came through. It’s a one of unique...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## Jville

tchan001 said:


> It's a ma_sha1 workdonkey modified from what was once a Shig nakiri. Other members refer to it as the Shiganihilator amongst other names.
> If you think it is a Toyoma, I'm sure someone has a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
> 
> If you enjoy ma_sha1's work, he has something special for you on BST.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTS - Tanaka Sekiso 210 Yo handle DIY conversion
> 
> 
> Bored between DIYs, & running out of slots to keep my knives. As hard as it feels, I must let some go. I made this Yo conversion in the thread below, I really wanted to create something special, something no one else has done before, I was happy with what came through. It’s a one of unique...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com


New York real estate sounds promising, PM sent.


----------



## Corradobrit1

tchan001 said:


> I'm sure someone has a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.


GLWS


----------



## juice

Corradobrit1 said:


> You mean its not a real panda?


Bless your heart


----------



## Byphy

I mean that thing cuts. good job


----------



## Moooza

Forget the knife and the huge change it caused to the forum - we want more puppy videos.


----------



## ma_sha1

Moooza said:


> Forget the knife and the huge change it caused to the forum - we want more puppy



It was this photo from the breeder that made us fall in love:
Mom & dad not nearly as cute thou.


----------



## Slipstenar

Why not, should be quite easy to do, it's just a knife anyways.


----------



## ma_sha1

Slipstenar said:


> Why not, should be quite easy to do, it's just a knife anyways.



What’s easy to do?


----------



## ma_sha1

Moooza said:


> Forget the knife and the huge change it caused to the forum - we want more puppy videos.



Failed attempt on a great concept, baby Panda playing with his brother in bamboo forest :


----------



## Slipstenar

ma_sha1 said:


> What’s easy to do?


To cut it up to a smaller knife.


----------



## ma_sha1

Slipstenar said:


> To cut it up to a smaller knife.



Technically, I made it into a bigger knife. The 180 Nakiri had an edge length of 176mm, The 180 Gyuyo now has an edge length of 181mm


----------



## TSF415

ma_sha1 said:


> Technically, I made it into a bigger knife. The 180 Nakiri had an edge length of 176mm, The 180 Gyuyo now has an edge length of 181mm



How is that possible?


----------



## ma_sha1

TSF415 said:


> How is that possible?



That’s because the Shig. Nakiri has a high nose profile, the front of the spine is about 10mm further than the front of the edge.

By making it a gyuto, I raised the tip to around half way height, this in-turn increased the edge length by about 5mm.


----------



## Garm

If your Toyama needs a new home, I'm known for creating a peaceful and happy environent where everyone is freely encouraged to be their very best selves.


----------



## parbaked

ma_sha1 said:


> Failed attempt on a great concept, baby Panda playing with his brother in bamboo forest :


Are you at all concerned that Baby Panda could be influenced by his namesake, the OG @panda?
Dog could grow up, drink all your booze and chili oil and then run away with your neighbors cat....


----------



## ma_sha1

parbaked said:


> Are you at all concerned that Baby Panda could be influenced by his namesake, the OG @panda?
> Dog could grow up, drink all your booze and chili oil and then run away with your neighbors cat....



Good point, I am making every effort to prevent this from happening. In fact, she doesn’t know KKF even exist


----------



## parbaked

That dog is dangerously cute.
This is our Wilma at the beach....


----------



## ma_sha1

parbaked said:


> That dog is dangerously cute.
> This is our Wilma at the beach....
> View attachment 89872



Beautiful!


----------



## tostadas

@ma_sha1 What grinder did you use? I saw in a few posts it was a 3x21. Is it a hand sander flipped upside down, or something mounted?


----------



## ma_sha1

tostadas said:


> @ma_sha1 What grinder did you use? I saw in a few posts it was a 3x21. Is it a hand sander flipped upside down, or something mounted?



I used three inexpensive grinders:

1., 1x30, very high speed, fast work but unforgiving, for crude work only, I don’t think I used it in this project except the starting, rough phase of handle making

2, 3x21 variable speed. The main grinder that can be used as hand sander or upside down bench mounted. I bench mounted it, & used lowest speed, it’s the main grinder used in this project. You can get away with using just this one for thinning. This is not a Grinder used by the Pro, too slow. But for beginners, IMHO, the slower the better. However, “slow“ is a relative term, it’s still 10x faster than whetstone. 

3, Random Orbital sander. I used it to make patterns, but later abandoned the pattern.


----------



## tostadas

ma_sha1 said:


> I used three inexpensive grinders:
> 
> 1., 1x30, very high speed, fast work but unforgiving, for crude work only, I don’t think I used it in this project except the starting, rough phase of handle making
> 
> 2, 3x21 variable speed. The main grinder that can be used as hand sander or upside down bench mounted. I bench mounted it, & used lowest speed, it’s the main grinder used in this project. You can get away with using just this one for thinning. This is not a Grinder used by the Pro, too slow. But for beginners, IMHO, the slower the better. However, “slow“ is a relative term, it’s still 10x faster than whetstone.
> 
> 3, Random Orbital sander. I used it to make patterns, but later abandoned the pattern.



What specific model do you have for the 3x21? Curious to try one out for light modification projects. Would you recommend the one that you used?


----------



## ma_sha1

tostadas said:


> What specific model do you have for the 3x21? Curious to try one out for light modification projects. Would you recommend the one that you used?



It’s this one, SPTA, pretty much a giveaway at the Amazon price, your real cost will be the belts, they don’t last very long. I used like 10-12 belts for this one project,



https://us.amazon.com/dp/B07TS9W6P7/ref=emc_b_5_i



I do recommend it. I like to start with cheap model, if it breaks, toss it as disposable. If I really like it, I’ll then look for better quality model. So far this guy has held-up well.


----------



## tostadas

ma_sha1 said:


> It’s this one, SPTA, pretty much a giveaway at the Amazon price, your real cost will be the belts, they don’t last very long. I used like 10-12 belts for this one project,
> 
> 
> 
> https://us.amazon.com/dp/B07TS9W6P7/ref=emc_b_5_i
> 
> 
> 
> I do recommend it. I like to start with cheap model, if it breaks, toss it as disposable. If I really like it, I’ll then look for better quality model. So far this guy has held-up well.
> 
> View attachment 90226


Did you use any water on the belts? Or quick grind and dip? That grinder doesnt look water resistant.


----------



## ma_sha1

tostadas said:


> Did you use any water on the belts? Or quick grind and dip? That grinder doesnt look water resistant.



No, just dry grind.


----------



## mlau

That looks really nice! Originally, I was ready for a cringe botch job.


----------



## ma_sha1

Thanks!

I wasn’t totally sure when I started either, it was my first time going this far, scary at times & didn’t always work, like the stone-washed finish, & when I thought I was gone, it failed quick chop test. But I am sure glad it came through. A special bond gives me extra joy when I use it, that’s not available from a “purchased” knife.


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I wasn’t totally sure when I started either, it was my first time going this far, scary at times & didn’t always work, like the stone-washed finish, & when I thought I was gone, it failed quick chop test. But I am sure glad it came through. A special bond gives me extra joy when I use it, that’s not available from a “purchased” knife.


Like breaking that wild, crazy mustang


----------



## Jville

Corradobrit1 said:


> Like breaking that wild, crazy mustang


Or killing a dog... Lassie.


----------



## juice

Jville said:


> Or killing a dog... Lassie.


Or a kangaroo - Skippy


----------



## Corradobrit1

juice said:


> Or a kangaroo - Skippy


Or a dolphin - Flipper


----------



## juice

Corradobrit1 said:


> Or a dolphin - Flipper


Or a whale willy

[EDIT] I mean a whale - Willy


----------



## M1k3

Donkey - ass


----------



## juice

Anyone saying this thread is now OT should have a long hard[1] think about who the OP is, then realise it's actually as ON TOPIC as it's possible to be.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[1]NoFDick


----------



## ma_sha1

Wow, you guys are on fire 
Thank god you don’t know what my name is in Kanji. 



Jville said:


> Or killing a dog...



Did you just call Shig. Nakiri a dog?


----------



## M1k3

ma_sha1 said:


> Wow, you guys are on fire
> Thank god you don’t know what my name is in Kanji.


ナイフ修飾子


----------



## Jville

ma_sha1 said:


> Wow, you guys are on fire
> Thank god you don’t know what my name is in Kanji.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you just call Shig. Nakiri a dog?


In the sense, of something beloved, kind of like your dog.


----------



## ian

横柄なナイフ駆逐艦





Edit: something gets lost in (double) translation, though.


----------



## ma_sha1

ian said:


> 横柄なナイフ駆逐艦


What?


----------



## ian

Pay no attention to me. I was following up on @M1k3’s post. But I think google translate may have lost the subtlety of my original meaning. Anyway... carry on. I look forward to your next project! They’re always really interesting to watch.

@M1k3 and I were wondering, actually, if you could do a sanmai workhorse to 2x ni mai laser (lefty and righty) DIY conversion next. Interested?


----------



## ma_sha1

ian said:


> Pay no attention to me. I was following up on @M1k3’s post. But I think google translate may have lost the subtlety of my original meaning. Anyway... carry on. I look forward to your next project! They’re always really interesting to watch.
> 
> @M1k3 and I were wondering, actually, if you could do a sanmai workhorse to 2x ni mai laser (lefty and righty) DIY conversion next. Interested?



You want me to split WH gyuto down the middle? That’s genius idea, turn one Kato into two Katos, & start a Kato duplication Business...


----------



## Jville

ma_sha1 said:


> You want me to split WH gyuto down the middle? That’s genius idea, turn one Kato into two Katos, & start a Kato duplication Business...


It wont be a Kato anymore .


----------



## M1k3

Jville said:


> It wont be a Kato anymore .


Ma_dos_kato's they shall be then!


----------



## ian

Indeed, twill be Ka and To.


----------



## ma_sha1

My table saw blade is too thick, I need one if these:


----------



## Southpaw

Hey I just saw this but I don’t understand what the f’ing point of doing what op planned?

First that’s a shig ku Nakiri, but most of all you’re just making a fraudulent shig?

I don’t want a shigefusa for the kanji, I want it for the cutting


----------



## juice

Southpaw said:


> Hey I just saw this but I don’t understand what the f’ing point of doing what op planned?


The thread explains it pretty well. OK, maybe not pretty well, but as well as it can be explained. There is no TL;DR


----------



## ma_sha1

Southpaw said:


> Hey I just saw this but I don’t understand what the f’ing point of doing what op planned?
> 
> First that’s a shig ku Nakiri, but most of all you’re just making a fraudulent shig?
> 
> I don’t want a shigefusa for the kanji, I want it for the cutting



It needs minimum IQ of 80 to understand.


----------



## Southpaw

ma_sha1 said:


> It needs minimum IQ of 80 to understand.


I was looking for a TLDR, not an insult. 

It goes against every reason I collect knives for at first glance. I like collecting the work of master smiths and using them to appreciate the true beauty of their art. 

I mean I can kinda relate because my other hobby is creating replicas of famous guitars from parts and pieces. I made a PERFECT replica of Jimmy Page’s Gibson Les Paul from a Chinese knock off. But to make the replica I need to give it genuine electronics for it to perform properly, along with the other hardware.

However with knives, especially as precious as a shigefusa and their old world craftsmanship, u can legit argue that it’s not a shigefusa anymore once you bring any sort of machine into it.

The fact that u didn’t reply with anything but an insult reveals maybe deep down you know this.

But then again you’ve probably already explained it 100 times in these 20 pages, but a nice tldr would be appreciated


----------



## Southpaw

Also I sold that guitar for 2 grand and the buyer knew it wasn’t authentic Gibson


----------



## Corradobrit1

Southpaw said:


> Also I sold that guitar for 2 grand and the buyer knew it wasn’t authentic Gibson


Please reread the thread


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Southpaw said:


> I was looking for a TLDR...
> 
> However with knives, especially as precious as a shigefusa and their old world craftsmanship, u can legit argue that it’s not a shigefusa anymore once you bring any sort of machine into it.
> 
> ...a nice tldr would be appreciated




There is no TLDR.

This thread *must *be experienced.



Also, a Shig KU nakiri isn't precious.


----------



## Southpaw

Corradobrit1 said:


> Please reread the thread


Lol ugh... this thread is like a George rr Martin book


----------



## Southpaw

applepieforbreakfast said:


> There is no TLDR.
> 
> This thread *must *be experienced.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, a Shig KU nakiri isn't precious.


I never said it was, although it’s a damn good knife... but fine.... I’ll read the thread


But if I end up reading this and becoming a Scientologist or something, I’m blaming u guys lol


----------



## spaceconvoy

Southpaw said:


> I don’t want a shigefusa for the kanji, I want it for the cutting





Southpaw said:


> It goes against every reason I collect knives for at first glance.


Good for you. Maybe start your own thread about how authentic you are. Reminder: you don't have to participate in things you don't like.


----------



## juice

Southpaw said:


> Lol ugh... this thread is like a George rr Martin book


Geez no, it's NOTHING like as badly-/over-written as that. It's only 20 pages! And it has a theme and a point!


----------



## M1k3

And this thread reached this point... I feel bad for @ma_sha1


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> I feel bad for @ma_sha1


Let's not go too far, bro.


----------



## ma_sha1

Southpaw said:


> I was looking for a TLDR, not an insult.



I only dished out an insult because you started out crushing for a bruising with: “what the f’ing point” & “you’re just making a fraudulent shig”

Now we are even 
The view similar to yours has been debated to death, I don’t want to beat the dead horse. I’d be happy to address any new questions thou.


----------



## Southpaw

spaceconvoy said:


> Good for you. Maybe start your own thread about how authentic you are. Reminder: you don't have to participate in things you don't like.


You bring up a good point, I think this thread should be moved to hobbyist.... but then again I’m only like 5 pages in.

and also dude what’s with the attack? Expressing what I value in my knives and then trying to figure out what the hell the point of this is to try to actually find out... u know what never mind....

Sorry I f’ing asked.... should’ve just read the 20 pages of ppl saying the same thing.

you be you ma sha... no clue why you used a shigefusa to make a 180mm Gyuto... hope u had fun.

now if you’ll all excuse me, I have to go melt down a Ferrari to make some Ferrari doorstops.


----------



## juice

Southpaw said:


> now if you’ll all excuse me, I have to go melt down a Ferrari to make some Ferrari doorstops.


Make sure you keep the badges visible.


----------



## Southpaw

ma_sha1 said:


> I only dished out an insult because you started out crushing for a bruising with: “what the f’ing point” & “you’re just making a fraudulent shig”
> 
> Now we are even
> The view similar to yours has been debated to death, I don’t want to beat the dead horse. I’d be happy to address any new questions thou.


You’re right I came out a little hot. I’m sorry.
PM’d you an apology. And I’ll do it publicly too


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> *cruising* for a bruising with: “what the f’ing point” & “you’re just making a fraudulent shig”


FIFY


----------



## Corradobrit1

Corradobrit1 said:


> Please reread the thread


FIFM


----------



## Southpaw

Corradobrit1 said:


> FIFY





Corradobrit1 said:


> FIFM


Not web savvy enough for those acronyms


----------



## Corradobrit1

Southpaw said:


> Not web savvy enough for those acronyms


Google is your friend


----------



## ian

Southpaw said:


> Not web savvy enough for those acronyms



first, i’ll f**k you.
fine, i’ll f**k myself.


----------



## Southpaw

ian said:


> first, i’ll f**k you.
> fine, i’ll f**k myself.


Thanks


Corradobrit1 said:


> Google is your friend


FIFM


----------



## Kippington

Southpaw said:


> Not web savvy enough for those acronyms


*FIFY*: Acronym used in message boards, meaning "Fixed it for you".
_- "The Shig was no good, but ma_sha1 FIFY"_​


----------



## ian

Sorry... it’s late and I’m in rare humor. For posterity:

FIFY=“fixed it for you”
FIFM=“fixed it for me”, I assume? Don’t think this one is standard though.

Edit: crap, @Kippington beat me to it as usual.


----------



## Southpaw

ian said:


> Sorry... it’s late and I’m in rare humor. For posterity:
> 
> FIFY=“fixed it for you”
> FIFM=“fixed it for me”, I assume? Don’t think this one is standard though.
> 
> Edit: crap, @Kippington beat me to it as usual.


I like yours better


----------



## tincent

This knife's reputation led me to believe this was done years ago and yet it hasn't even scratched a month. 

A Shig by any other name, would cut as sweet.


----------



## tchan001

Wonder what ma_sha1 made with the leftover scrap. Maybe he will buy a forge and make a ma_shig1 petty.


----------



## M1k3

Meuchi's?


----------



## ma_sha1

The scrap piece is really small, I can make it into a mini petty but only 2” long, might be useful for peeling apple skins?

Between the two handle design options, I am leaning towards #1, the The Burnt Ho option with a white antler bolster to match the look of the gyuto.


----------



## tchan001

A paring knife would be nice.


----------



## lemeneid

Could make a simple kogatana or kiridashi with that scrap piece.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Kogatana. The shape is almost there. Just needs kanji and a bevel. Jose can lend you his sharpie


----------



## ma_sha1

Thanks, that looks great.

Given that I can only afford a tiny 1” rat tail, & it has to be shared between bolster & handle, I made it into a reverse dowel, the opposite of Japanese Wa handle construction. The dowel is integral part of the bolster, this way, it gives the maximum adhesion surface area on such a small real estate.

The blade is tiny, only 2” long, it makes my 4” 52100 paring knife looks like a giant


----------



## Midsummer

ma_sha1 I do not know what else you are, but you certainly are a talented craftsman. Thanks for the show!


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks, that looks great.
> 
> Given that I can only afford a tiny 1” rat tail, & it has to be shared between bolster & handle, I made it into a reverse dowel, the opposite of Japanese Wa handle construction. The dowel is integral part of the bolster, this way, it gives the maximum adhesion surface area on such a small real estate.
> 
> The blade is tiny, only 2” long, it makes my 4” 52100 paring knife looks like a giant
> View attachment 91397


But will it cut carrots?


----------



## Corradobrit1

We need more panda content for this page


----------



## tostadas

Maybe make a Wa-handled toothpick, with a Damascus bolster


----------



## ma_sha1

Corradobrit1 said:


> We need more panda content for this page


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


>



Awwww


----------



## juice

Corradobrit1 said:


> We need more panda content for this page


The alcohol panda or the canine panda?


----------



## ma_sha1

Corradobrit1 said:


> We need more panda content for this page



Here’s Looking at You, Kid


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> The alcohol panda or the canine panda?


Alcohol panda is also into knives and s2000's...


----------



## parbaked

Doggy panda is too cute!

Use the scrap to make a prison shiv, in case the Shig police come after you....


----------



## ma_sha1

parbaked said:


> Doggy panda is too cute!
> 
> Use the scrap to make a prison shiv, in case the Shig police come after you....



Lol, Shig Shiv


----------



## ian

Shig shiv.

edit: jinx?


----------



## M1k3

No take backsies!


----------



## juice

Shiv Kasumi, for your really high-end prisoner


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> Shiv Kasumi, for your really high-end prisoner


----------



## labor of love

If I had serious financial backing I’d buy up all the shigs I could. Send them to @ma_sha1 for re-education camp. Then return them to circulation.
Then lounge in my recliner and watch society unravel.


----------



## Jville

Corradobrit1 said:


> Kogatana. The shape is almost there. Just needs kanji and a bevel. *Jose can lend you his sharpie*
> 
> View attachment 91393


 Simple but wonderfully written. One of my favorite lines yet.


----------



## ma_sha1

Ok, it’s not a Shig, it’s a Shiv 

Also, did anybody notice that Eitan can still give out emojis from his KKF grave?


----------



## juice

ma_sha1 said:


> Also, did anybody notice that Eitan78 can still give out emojis from his KKF grave?


Are you sure he didn't give it out before he was banned?


----------



## ma_sha1

juice said:


> Are you sure he didn't give it out before he was banned?



Never mind, you are correct, that was an older post.


----------



## Corradobrit1

The perfect apple corer


----------



## ma_sha1

Corradobrit1 said:


> The perfect apple corer



You are onto something! I did a quick test, don’t have any apples at the moment, so I cored a potato instead


----------



## childermass

Corradobrit1 said:


> But will it cut *half frozen *carrots?


FIFY


----------



## childermass

Jville said:


> It wont be a Kato anymore .


One half will according to the Kanji


----------



## tincent

ma_sha1 said:


> You are onto something! I did a quick test, don’t have any apples at the moment, so I cored a potato instead
> View attachment 91532


TIL the entire potato is a core.


----------



## ma_sha1

It probably won’t cut well on half frozen carrots, But as a Shiv, it’ll just stab the heck out of it


----------



## Jville

childermass said:


> One half will according to the Kanji


https://g.co/kgs/zv1UYY


----------



## tchan001

I think ma_sha1 will one day mix the two loves of his life (knives and flashlights) and build a Kitchen lightsaber.


----------



## childermass

tchan001 said:


> I think ma_sha1 will one day mix the two loves of his life (knives and flashlights) and build a Kitchen lightsaber.


Will make an awesome bread knife:


----------



## Corradobrit1

childermass said:


> Will make an awesome bread knife:
> View attachment 91545


But is it kid and baby panda safe?


----------



## ma_sha1

The spicy Swedish steel takes an impressive edge 🌶 🌶 🌶


----------



## childermass

Corradobrit1 said:


> But is it kid and baby panda safe?


Don’t worry, it will cauterize any wound instantly so nobody won’t die from blood loss which makes it even safer than any other knife.


----------



## tchan001

Save the dolphin. Ma_sha1 is trying to make dolphin fin soup.


----------



## ma_sha1

tchan001 said:


> Save the dolphin. Ma_sha1 is trying to make dolphin fin soup.


----------



## gregfisk

childermass said:


> Will make an awesome bread knife:
> View attachment 91545


This is the perfect knife for making Chinese bbq pork out of a tenderloin.


----------



## ma_sha1

tchan001 said:


> Wonder what ma_sha1 made with the leftover scrap.



Thanks again for reminding me techan001, I actually totally forgot until you brought it up, would’ve been one less knife if not for you.

But wait, there’s one more piece, what should I do with it?


----------



## M1k3

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks again for reminding me techan001, I actually totally forgot until you brought it up, would’ve been one less knife if not for you.
> 
> But wait, there’s one more piece, what should I do with it?
> View attachment 91563


Shig Kasumi X-acto blade.


----------



## Twigg

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks again for reminding me techan001, I actually totally forgot until you brought it up, would’ve been one less knife if not for you.
> 
> But wait, there’s one more piece, what should I do with it?
> View attachment 91563


Take this and some swarf from sharpening a Kato and list the mix on BST for $20. It would allow for some poor ba$tard to own a piece from 2 highly prized makers.


----------



## ma_sha1

I ask the Shig lord for forgiveness for I have sinned, & I give you back the Nakiri:


----------



## Corradobrit1

ma_sha1 said:


> I ask the Shig lord for forgiveness, for I have sinned, & I give you back the Nakiri:
> 
> View attachment 91696
> View attachment 91697


Haha. The Ken & Barbie limited edition Shig Nakiri


----------



## BillHanna

Choil shot, please.


----------



## ian

ma_sha1 said:


> I ask the Shig lord for forgiveness for I have sinned, & I give you back the Nakiri:
> 
> View attachment 91696
> View attachment 91697



You gonna put it permanently on your keychain? Personally, I’d just list it on BST as Shig Nakiri (**reduced**).


----------



## ma_sha1

ian said:


> You gonna put it permanently on your keychain? Personally, I’d just list it on BST as Shig Nakiri (**reduced**).



Yes, perma keychain. No way I am letting it go, sooo cute, almost too sexy for my key chain:


----------



## juice

Now you've got makers @ma_sha1-ing themselves...


----------



## Corradobrit1

Nakiri is a dirty word around here.


----------



## M1k3

Corradobrit1 said:


> Nakiri is a dirty word around here.


Unless it's turned into a Gyuto. Then it's just a trigger, instead of a dirty word.


----------



## tchan001

Cleavers are made to be cleavers. Short nakiris are special knives that makers have to put a lot more work into.


----------



## juice

Corradobrit1 said:


> Nakiri is a dirty word around here.


@nakiriknaifuwaifu ALERT



M1k3 said:


> Unless it's turned into a Gyuto. Then it's just a trigger, instead of a dirty word.


"just" (386 page thread)


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Corradobrit1 said:


> Nakiri is a dirty word around here.


@juice lack of demand keeps prices down shhhhhh  I'm trying to go from waifu to nakiri harem here.

BOOOO NAKIRIS WHO NEEDS THEM USELESS TIPLESS GYUTO RUNTS


----------



## juice

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @juice lack of demand keeps prices down shhhhhh  I'm trying to go from waifu to nakiri harem here.


I didn't say anything for or against, I was just alerting you to the pervert


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> I was just alerting you to the pervert


That's what she said.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Yeah, the lack of tip and shorter length makes nakiris sooo hard to use. You've got to have real dexterity and good technique to enjoy them, so most people shouldn't bother. Don't waste your time if you're not a highly skilled super-smart kitchen stud who's irresistible to whatever gender you prefer.
(I have one I'll be putting on BST soon)


----------



## M1k3

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @juice lack of demand keeps prices down shhhhhh  I'm trying to go from waifu to nakiri harem here.
> 
> BOOOO NAKIRIS WHO NEEDS THEM USELESS TIPLESS GYUTO RUNTS


That's the spirit! Next time, a little more gumption, pizzazz, just to drive it home.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

@M1k3 @juice

Ladies and gentlemen, nakiris are poor, damaged knives. They are born short, misshapen, and tipless, and as a result, they are unable to do many of the things that normal knives can do.

However, nakiris are knives too, and they deserve a full life. To that end, I have started an abused nakiri shelter in my kitchen, where I welcome these knives and put them to use. If you or someone you know has a nakiri that is neglected, please send them to me. I will give them purpose, keep them safe from @ma_sha1, and ensure that they are taken care of till the end of their days.

Thank you, 
NKW
Founder and COO, sexy rectangle knife harem  Abused Nakiri Shelter California (ANSC)


----------



## M1k3

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @M1k3 @juice
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, nakiris are poor, damaged knives. They are born short, misshapen, and tipless, and as a result, they are unable to do many of the things that normal knives can do.
> 
> However, nakiris are knives too, and they deserve a full life. To that end, I have started an abused nakiri shelter in my kitchen, where I welcome these knives and put them to use. If you or someone you know has a nakiri that is neglected, please send them to me. I will give them purpose, keep them safe from @ma_sha1, and ensure that they are taken care of till the end of their days.
> 
> Thank you,
> NKW
> Founder and COO, sexy rectangle knife harem  Abused Nakiri Shelter California (ANSC)


Do you accept Chinese cleavers?


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

M1k3 said:


> Do you accept Chinese cleavers?



Unfortunately not at this time. They are too fat and useless for my harem, I only like lithe, athletic rectangle knives.
Frankly, I've yet to try one, and besides affordability, I can't imagine why I might want one.


----------



## ma_sha1

Chinese cleaver + Table saw = Two Nakiris


----------



## ian

Let the one with understanding reckon the meaning of the *number of the beast*, for it is the *number* of a man. And his name is ma_sha1.


----------



## ma_sha1

I am a purple kitty, I come with peace


----------



## ma_sha1

Patina porn:


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

ma_sha1 said:


> I am a purple kitty, I come with peace



Nice patina, did you pee on it?


----------



## ma_sha1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Nice patina, did you pee on it?



Lol, no, never heard that before.
Is that how you patina your knife?


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

ma_sha1 said:


> Lol, no, never heard that before.
> Is that how you patina your knife?


lol was a joke: cat urine apparently does a swell job and was the choice patination agent back in the day. Pic from google


----------



## Corradobrit1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> lol was a joke: cat urine apparently does a swell job and was the choice patination agent back in the day. Pic from googleView attachment 92916


Cat pee patina increases value of your knife like it boosts coffee bean prices








Civet cat coffee: can world's most expensive brew be made sustainably?


Coffee derived from the faeces of the civet cat has spawned a cruel industry. Will sustainable production leave a better taste?




www.theguardian.com


----------



## ma_sha1

If you ever had a cat, you’ll agree that cat urine is a no no.

Nooooooooooooooo


----------



## Corradobrit1

Baby  pee patina => unicorn status


----------



## tincent

I like how you can see where @ma_sha1 pinch grips.


----------



## tostadas

@ma_sha1 Does the thickness behind the edge (say, at 1cm or 2cm) taper toward the tip? How thin do you estimate you ground it, while still maintaining the workhorse feel you wanted?


----------



## ma_sha1

tostadas said:


> @ma_sha1 Does the thickness behind the edge (say, at 1cm or 2cm) taper toward the tip? How thin do you estimate you ground it, while still maintaining the workhorse feel you wanted?



It does, I try to grind it gradual convex all the way up to spine except where i needed to conserve the Kanji. 

I don’t have a thickness spec in number, just grind it by the feel, then test cut, even use it for a few days, & grind again. I did this back & forth 5-6 times until it finally cuts the way I wanted it, especially on cutting carrots & quick chop of potatoes slices. 

It’s thicker behind the edge than my Kurosaki Fujin, but feels much more solid, not fragile like the Fujin. The WH feeling also comes from the added weight, 160g vs. 132g, and more blade forward balance. Fujin is sharper but I can’t use it for quick chop, it’s too light. I can do quick slice with Fujin, but not as fast as the quick chop I showed in the video, where I leverage the blade weight of the Shig. to swing down the cut really fast.


----------



## naader

ma_sha1 said:


> Covid-19 project gets a bit crazy sones times
> 
> Here I want to turn the 180 Shig. Nakiri. into 180mm gyuto instead, before I start, what you guys think about the profile?
> 
> I like it tall, aiming for 48/49mm heel height. I can make tip higher or lower, pretty much anywhere I want it before I fire up the table saw.
> 
> The question is, should I reduce the heel height to make it more slim looking, more similar to a real Shig. Kasumi ?
> 
> For ref., the Fujin has 44 heel height.
> 
> View attachment 88306


Are you picking a fight


----------



## ian

naader said:


> Are you picking a fight



i think you’ll get your answer if you read through the next few hundred posts


----------



## juice

ian said:


> i think you’ll get your answer if you read through the next few hundred posts


Indeed, there's a whole thread of fun to be experienced.


----------



## naader

ian said:


> i think you’ll get your answer if you read through the next few hundred posts


That was a wild ride


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

sigh...
every now and then I re-remember this thread and...
sighhhhhh


----------



## Barclid

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> sigh...
> every now and then I re-remember this thread and...
> sighhhhhh


I hope you also remember that the cat pee patina thing was a troll from r/chefknives and not a real thing, yeah?


----------



## blokey




----------



## Jville

Shig [email protected], grinds matter.


----------



## Homechef

blokey said:


> View attachment 182808










That's really nice steel there, should probably cut a little more judiciously you could have a whole set complete with butter knife. 

The true unicorn, the Shig butter knife!


----------



## jwthaparc

Man. I cant believe you guys did all this without me.

Edit: now to read the other one i missed apparently. This ma_sha1 guy knows how to make an entertaining thread.


----------



## jedy617

Am I the only one who reads the whole 20+ pages every time this gets bumped? It's just too good, like rereading a favorite book!


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## jwthaparc

Oh hey, i got linked a thread you were in too! I apparently miss out on a lot only hanging out in the sharpening station. You guys have all the fun over here!


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## Jville

Shig [email protected]$er.


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