# in support of Jason Collins



## JBroida (Apr 29, 2013)

A bit off topic from knives, but this is one of the best articles i've read in a long time and i wanted to share our support for Jason Collins. I hope this gives other people the courage to step up and be proud of who they are... whatever their sexual orientation, race, or any other destinguishing factor... no one should be ashamed of who they are...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/news/20130429/jason-collins-gay-nba-player/#all

*sorry if this crosses the politics line... i thought it was important


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## Patatas Bravas (Apr 29, 2013)

+1


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## Johnny.B.Good (Apr 29, 2013)

Good for him.


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## Mrmnms (Apr 29, 2013)

thank you Jon


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 29, 2013)

that couldnt have been easy. 

hope it all works out. sucks this even is a big deal in today modern world.

thanks for posting.


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## Lefty (Apr 29, 2013)

Pretty huge move, and hopefully it makes a difference. I'm really impressed with him stepping up like this.


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## JohnnyChance (Apr 29, 2013)

And kudos to Kobe for tweeting his support. That plus support from a few other significant figures will help keep this positive response going.


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## ajhuff (Apr 29, 2013)

BIG +1 JON!!!!!

-AJ


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## TamanegiKin (Apr 29, 2013)

Was just reading this earlier, brave move and good for him.
I'm a huge boxing fan and recently Orlando Cruz came out as the first openly gay boxer.
Orlando Cruz and Jason Collins have changed their sports forever.
I think it's great that these guys have stepped up.


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## mhlee (Apr 29, 2013)

I have tremendous respect and admiration for Jason Collins for doing this. The personal difficulties he faced prior to coming out mirror what my other friends who are now openly gay have told me. But, on top of that, he's doing it on international stage. 

I hope the best for him.


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## Salty dog (Apr 29, 2013)

It's interesting. The media loves it.
It's also a shame that it's news that a man is gay.
One thing that I'm proud of is the human diversity in my line of work. As macho as it gets and as gay as it gets, black, white or red and everything in between. In my experience it has never been an issue and only enhances the work place.
Does that mean we're enlightened?


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## Dardeau (Apr 29, 2013)

Every time something like this is printed homophobia fades a little bit more.


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## RobinW (Apr 30, 2013)

Salty dog said:


> It's interesting. The media loves it.
> *It's also a shame that it's news that a man is gay.*
> One thing that I'm proud of is the human diversity in my line of work. As macho as it gets and as gay as it gets, black, white or red and everything in between. In my experience it has never been an issue and only enhances the work place.
> Does that mean we're enlightened?



+1 on that.

But I am glad that there seems to be a fair share of knifenuts that does not have an issue with it and is willing to speak up. Kudos to you guys.


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## jayhay (Apr 30, 2013)

Salty dog said:


> It's interesting. The media loves it.
> It's also a shame that it's news that a man is gay.
> One thing that I'm proud of is the human diversity in my line of work. As macho as it gets and as gay as it gets, black, white or red and everything in between. In my experience it has never been an issue and only enhances the work place.
> Does that mean we're enlightened?



Restaurant folk just have a low tolerance for BS (back of the house anyways). We've seen and been through a lot, so if you can produce, ultimately you're good. I feel ya on a gay dude being news...but as a gay dude, I gotta say, it's news because it's a relevant human rights issue. And people coming forward to culture understanding is needed. It's good for everyone to see we all can be happy, healthy, productive and successful regardless of sexuality. We all deserve equal rights.

Good on you, Jon.


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## mkmk (Apr 30, 2013)

Yes, indeed -- good for him. For a professional athlete -- especially a black professional athlete -- to come out like this is an important step, and I hope it helps erode some of the persistent homophobia in that world.


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## Patatas Bravas (Apr 30, 2013)

It's being reported as a big story in 'American sport' outside of the US too. The first time a well-known US athlete has come out. Really?


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## mkmk (Apr 30, 2013)

Patatas Bravas said:


> It's being reported as a big story in 'American sport' outside of the US too. The first time a well-known US athlete has come out. Really?



Not the first well-known athlete, but the first male athlete in a big money team sport; basketball and American football are still perceived as bastions of "traditional" US masculinity in a way that other sports are not. There are also deep taboos about homosexuality in much of black America. Proportionately more black gay men are deeply closeted, especially among those who are perceived to be (or perceive themselves to be) conventionally masculine/macho. All of that adds up to this being a bigger issue -- and a more courageous act -- than would be the case with many other athletes.


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## Patatas Bravas (Apr 30, 2013)

mkmk said:


> Not the first well-known athlete, but the first male athlete in a big money team sport; basketball and American football are still perceived as bastions of "traditional" US masculinity in a way that other sports are not. There are also deep taboos about homosexuality in much of black America. Proportionately more black gay men are deeply closeted, especially among those who are perceived to be (or perceive themselves to be) conventionally masculine/macho. All of that adds up to this being a bigger issue -- and a more courageous act -- than would be the case with many other athletes.



Good for him.


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## mhlee (Apr 30, 2013)

jayhay said:


> And people coming forward to culture understanding is needed. It's good for everyone to see we all can be happy, healthy, productive and successful regardless of sexuality. We all deserve equal rights.



+1

To me, this is precisely why it was particularly important.


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## knyfeknerd (Apr 30, 2013)

It's crazy to think of how much things have changed in my short lifetime. I never thought it would be so widely accepted. I'm happy that people can come out and be true to themselves and to the rest of the world. I can only imagine how terrible it would feel to have to keep a secret and lie to everyone for your entire life. 
What people do in their bedrooms is none of my business. It's all about the content of your character and your actions. 
That's what matters.


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## JBroida (Apr 30, 2013)

i just wanted to add one quick note here... i was really worried when i posted this that there might be some backlash here. I'm really happy to see that there has not been any. This speaks volumes to the type of community we have been able to create here.


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## Miles (Apr 30, 2013)

I have a lot of friends who are gay. I've listened to many stories about how difficult their lives were before they were out, trying to hide a very fundamental part of who they were from everyone. I wish something like this wasn't big news, but more greeted with a shrug and a "good for him". It's not quite that way yet. I'm sure it will be eventually. Like K-nerrd, how I view someone has to do with how they treat others, their actions, and their character. Who they date or marry, whether gay or straight, is their business not mine.


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## mzer (Apr 30, 2013)

JBroida said:


> i just wanted to add one quick note here... i was really worried when i posted this that there might be some backlash here. I'm really happy to see that there has not been any. This speaks volumes to the type of community we have been able to create here.



I'll give you some backlash. Basketball sucks and anything good in sports should not happen in the NBA.


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## JBroida (Apr 30, 2013)

haha... well, the only sport i watch is MMA, so take that for what its worth


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## jayhay (Apr 30, 2013)

JBroida said:


> haha... well, the only sport i watch is MMA, so take that for what its worth



MMA? Yeah! Me too lol, but all my friends make fun of me.


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## JBroida (Apr 30, 2013)

not too many openly gay fighters, but a few openly lesbian fighters

Anyways, if you ever find yourself in LA, i'm always catching up on saturday night fights on sunday at the store


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## jayhay (Apr 30, 2013)

Man, if I'm ever in LA, I'm there :thumbsup:


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## mkriggen (Apr 30, 2013)

JBroida said:


> i just wanted to add one quick note here... i was really worried when i posted this that there might be some backlash here. I'm really happy to see that there has not been any. This speaks volumes to the type of community we have been able to create here.



lus1::goodpost: don't it just!


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## toddnmd (Apr 30, 2013)

Thanks for posting, Jon, and nice to see so many positive responses. 

Yes, this shouldn't be big news, but it is. At some point, a "story" like this will be non-news. I see Collins' courage as a significant step in the right direction.


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## mzer (Apr 30, 2013)

JBroida said:


> haha... well, the only sport i watch is MMA, so take that for what its worth



I was thinking PGA tour.


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## Crothcipt (Apr 30, 2013)

Salty dog said:


> It's interesting. The media loves it.
> It's also a shame that it's news that a man is gay.
> One thing that I'm proud of is the human diversity in my line of work. As macho as it gets and as gay as it gets, black, white or red and everything in between. In my experience it has never been an issue and only enhances the work place.
> Does that mean we're enlightened?


+ 1

As for being the first pro athlete to come out, he isn't. Most have come out after they retired, and even had a lot more backlash than what Jason is getting.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (May 1, 2013)

Not meaning to offend you OP, but when we don't have to have these threads, true social equality will be achieved.


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## JBroida (May 1, 2013)

i agree and i look forward to the time where things like this are a non-issue... in the meantime, while change is still in progress, dialogue is important


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (May 1, 2013)

Oops, didn't notice it was you Jon. Funny, it's pretty much a non-issue in the military despite what the media likes to dramatize.


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## JBroida (May 1, 2013)

yeah... i have a lot of friends in the military... even before dont ask dont tell, people talked and for the most part no one really cared... that being said, regardless of the place, company, or setting, even just a couple of ******** can cause huge problems


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## labor of love (May 1, 2013)

I know this is a little off topic but there is a transgendered MMA fighter in the UFC, Fallon Fox. And unfortunately her reception hasnt been too well recieved at all.
http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/4/8...mitrione-for-remarks-on-transgendered-fighter


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (May 1, 2013)

labor of love said:


> I know this is a little off topic but there is a transgendered MMA fighter in the UFC, Fallon Fox. And unfortunately her reception hasnt been too well recieved at all.
> http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/4/8...mitrione-for-remarks-on-transgendered-fighter



Sorry, but a man transgendered into a women, fighting against women in the MMA is just wrong. I am all about social equality, but I gotta draw the line somewhere.


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## labor of love (May 1, 2013)

Well, the California State Athletic Commission sees nothing wrong with it actually. And shes only the first.


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## JBroida (May 1, 2013)

i dont know... the womens mma right now is stacked with amazing fighters... i'd put many of them up against men and i can see them easily winning (sometimes even at a size/weight disadvantage)... this one is a bit more tricky, but if both fighters are cool with it, i dont see a problem personally. But like i said, sometimes it can get tricky.


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## mzer (May 1, 2013)

labor of love said:


> Well, the California State Athletic Commission sees nothing wrong with it actually. And shes only the first.



This strikes me as legal positivism in the extreme. It is one thing to believe that law is right because it is law, and quite another to believe that a decision is right because somebody in a position of power decided it. The first is questionable, and oft questioned, the second seems completely untenable. It may be that it was the right decision, but that needs to be evaluated on the merits of the issue, and not on the simple fact that it was decided.


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## Duckfat (May 1, 2013)

I worked under a CMC for the '89-90 Championship seasons for the Detroit Pistons. We used to carve ice on the loading dock where Dennis Rodman would park his semi-cab covered with Christmas lights that he'd drive to work. Some how a gay BB player over 20 years later seems a bit......passe. OTOH Transgendered midget wresting with throwing knives sounds highly entertaining.
I think Lou Reed pretty much summed up my view on the entire topic with Sweet Jane long, long ago.


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## stevenStefano (May 1, 2013)

JBroida said:


> haha... well, the only sport i watch is MMA, so take that for what its worth



I am the same. The time difference actually works out great, I stay up until like 6am on a Sunday morning to watch it live. Working all day Sunday sucks though


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## labor of love (May 1, 2013)

mzer said:


> This strikes me as legal positivism in the extreme. It is one thing to believe that law is right because it is law, and quite another to believe that a decision is right because somebody in a position of power decided it. The first is questionable, and oft questioned, the second seems completely untenable. It may be that it was the right decision, but that needs to be evaluated on the merits of the issue, and not on the simple fact that it was decided.



State athletic commissions decide if someone is fit and qualified to be a licensed boxer/MMA fighter. Largely this is determined by a persons medical history and level of fitness. My point being, they are indeed in a position of authority to decide if a person is qualified or not be licensed as a fighter. As experts they evaluated Fallons medical history and her health and deemed her worthy of a MMA license.If there was any reason to deny her a license because of her gender reassignment surgery they would have done so. Clearly they are in a position of power because they know what they are doing, and are capable of evaluating a person in ways you and I couldnt. The only issue left here would be the problem some people may have with it.


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## mzer (May 1, 2013)

labor of love said:


> State athletic commissions decide if someone is fit and qualified to be a licensed boxer/MMA fighter. Largely this is determined by a persons medical history and level of fitness. My point being, they are indeed in a position of authority to decide if a person is qualified or not be licensed as a fighter. As experts they evaluated Fallons medical history and her health and deemed her worthy of a MMA license.If there was any reason to deny her a license because of her gender reassignment surgery they would have done so. Clearly they are in a position of power because they know what they are doing, and are capable of evaluating a person in ways you and I couldnt. The only issue left here would be the problem some people may have with it.



I'm not sure you understand what I am talking about, so let me explain a little more clearly. There are people who believe that the rightness of a law is derived from its law-ness, or its being written down in the codes, and there are others who believe that the concepts behind the law need to be evaluated on their own merits, and that they have been posited is not enough to deem them right. In this case you are taking it a step further. You are going one step further. You are simply saying that it is right because they have decided, not that it is because they have decided. The latter part is clear, the former, that they know because they are experts and because they are experts they are right is much less clear. In your closing sentence you refer to "the problem" some people might have with it, which strikes me as half a step shy of calling everybody who does not agree with you a form of bigot. That's pretty weak. I think that letting her fight may be the right decision, but the other fighters comments, while extremely indelicate, do bring to light one interesting fact. It isn't that she has gone through a sex change operation, it is that she has somehow gotten to a place where she has circumvented the number one rule taught to little boys by our society today, and that is that you don't beat up on women. I'm not sure I understand how her gender realities interact with the experience of growing up nominally male and having the rules against hitting girls drummed in to your head happen. 

So, to recapitulate, you want to arrogate an enormous amount of power, that of right and wrong as opposed to allowed and not allowed, simply because they hold a degree of political power and you want to cut off discussion of interesting issues of social norms rather than examine what is there. That is fine, but as I said in my earlier post, it is limiting and philosophically troubling.

I'll just sum up by saying that I find MMA to be barbaric and I think its legality is a strike against the concept that gaming commissions are doing their jobs.


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## stevenStefano (May 1, 2013)

mzer said:


> I'll just sum up by saying that I find MMA to be barbaric and I think its legality is a strike against the concept that gaming commissions are doing their jobs.



Perhaps you aren't a bigot, just very very ignorant



labor of love said:


> My point being, they are indeed in a position of authority to decide if a person is qualified or not be licensed as a fighter. As experts they evaluated Fallons medical history and her health and deemed her worthy of a MMA license.



This assumes that Athletic Commissions know what they are doing when in relation to MMA it has been shown that most don't have a clue and don't know a thing about MMA. For a start look at the number of terrible judging decisions for evidence. I don't believe for a minute that any Athletic Commission has carried out any kind of detailed study to see the extent of Fox's gender reassignment and how it impacts on her fighting. Fighter safety is always talked about and surely this is a giant red flag


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## mzer (May 1, 2013)

stevenStefano said:


> Perhaps you aren't a bigot, just very very ignorant



This is a definite possibility.


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## labor of love (May 1, 2013)

Mzer, your acessment of my position is so off base, I literally could not respond without writing a huge diatribe, except for the case in which you believe that Im calling someone here a bigot. Which I am not. For you to assume that is pretty weak. Yeah Steven Im sure state athletic commissions are a clusterf*** when it comes to MMA. But, I have no idea why you would think this is a "giant red flag".


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## mzer (May 1, 2013)

labor of love said:


> Mzer, your acessment of my position is so off base, I literally could not respond without writing a huge diatribe, except for the case in which you believe that Im calling someone here a bigot. Which I am not. For you to assume that is pretty weak. Yeah Steven Im sure state athletic commissions are a clusterf*** when it comes to MMA. But, I have no idea why you would think this is a "giant red flag".



OK, I read you incorrectly on the bigot part. No harm no foul.


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## labor of love (May 1, 2013)

On a side note, did anybody bother to read the article I posted initially? I'm no authority on MMA and this subject is altogether still very new to me. My original point was to draw attention to the disparaging remarks made by joe rogan(giant douche),Matt Hughes and others toward Fallon fox. Not to argue the validity of her liscense or her fighting other women.


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## Marko Tsourkan (May 1, 2013)

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3

Now, this is not very honorable, regardless the reasons, though understandable. 

I do support people be who they are and to be treated equally.


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## stevenStefano (May 1, 2013)

labor of love said:


> But, I have no idea why you would think this is a "giant red flag".



Because Fallon Fox was a man for 31 years, so it could be said there are issues about the safety of her fighting women.


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## stevenStefano (May 1, 2013)

I'm going pretty OT so I'll stop now


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (May 1, 2013)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3
> 
> Now, this is not very honorable, regardless the reasons, though understandable.
> 
> I do support people be who they are and to be treated equally.



Yeah, not cool for him to do that to her, very unfair. 

A common statement is being treated equally, though I believe we all should be treated fairly (as opposed to equally). After all, we are all not equal. We all have different talents, beliefs, and strengths/weaknesses. I do not treat everyone equally, but I am fair to everyone. I am not an "everyone gets a trophy" person.


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## Johnny.B.Good (May 1, 2013)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Yeah, not cool for him to do that to her, very unfair.



Agreed, but just goes to show the kind of pressure Collins (and many others like him) are under to hide who they really are.

I find it sad.


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## jayhay (May 1, 2013)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Yeah, not cool for him to do that to her, very unfair.
> 
> A common statement is being treated equally, though I believe we all should be treated fairly (as opposed to equally). After all, we are all not equal. We all have different talents, beliefs, and strengths/weaknesses. I do not treat everyone equally, but I am fair to everyone. I am not an "everyone gets a trophy" person.



I don't treat everyone the same either. No one does, if they're being honest with you. We are talking about equal rights under the law. Things like shared health benefits, marriage rights and protection from discrimination on the job. In most states you can still be fired for being gay. And not to mention the loads of legal troubles gay couples can have with estates, taxes, wills, investments, adoptions and having family, distant or close, have more legal say than your partner at crucial and important times.

Equal rights under the law. That's it. No one loses anything, some just gain what most already have. 

But on a lighter note, I really hope the UFC matches some good fights in the future. I don't know why exactly, but I'm getting a little board with the format and slower fights. And I appreciate the technical stuff. The UFC needs someone to shake things up a bit. Someone a little dirty lol.


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## TamanegiKin (May 1, 2013)

jayhay said:


> But on a lighter note, I really hope the UFC matches some good fights in the future. I don't know why exactly, but I'm getting a little board with the format and slower fights. And I appreciate the technical stuff. The UFC needs someone to shake things up a bit. Someone a little dirty lol.



I hear Ricardo Mayorga makes his MMA debut very soon. 
He was one of the most entertaining characters in and out of the ring for many years in boxing. 
I remember when he lit a cigarette in the ring during a post fight interview. 
Should be entertaining however long it lasts.


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## stevenStefano (May 1, 2013)

jayhay said:


> But on a lighter note, I really hope the UFC matches some good fights in the future. I don't know why exactly, but I'm getting a little board with the format and slower fights. And I appreciate the technical stuff. The UFC needs someone to shake things up a bit. Someone a little dirty lol.



The Henderson Melendez card was pretty awesome. Perhaps an MMA thread would be a good idea?


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (May 1, 2013)

jayhay said:


> I don't treat everyone the same either. No one does, if they're being honest with you. We are talking about equal rights under the law. Things like shared health benefits, marriage rights and protection from discrimination on the job. In most states you can still be fired for being gay. And not to mention the loads of legal troubles gay couples can have with estates, taxes, wills, investments, adoptions and having family, distant or close, have more legal say than your partner at crucial and important times.
> 
> Equal rights under the law. That's it. No one loses anything, some just gain what most already have.
> 
> But on a lighter note, I really hope the UFC matches some good fights in the future. I don't know why exactly, but I'm getting a little board with the format and slower fights. And I appreciate the technical stuff. The UFC needs someone to shake things up a bit. Someone a little dirty lol.



Since we are on the topic of equal rights under the law, to include financial rights. What about us single folks? I'd like to have some tax benefits for being single that those with dependents get. See, not equal. Fair? That's debatable.


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## knyfeknerd (May 1, 2013)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Since we are on the topic of equal rights under the law, to include financial rights. What about us single folks? I'd like to have some tax benefits for being single that those with dependents get. See, not equal. Fair? That's debatable.


Nope!
you need to get married first and then learn to be miserable just like the rest of us.
only then do you get your tax break.
but is it really worth never getting laid?


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (May 1, 2013)

knyfeknerd said:


> Nope!
> you need to get married first and then learn to be miserable just like the rest of us.
> only then do you get your tax break.
> but is it really worth never getting laid?



Hehehe. I really don't mind not having the breaks, because I love my freedom


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## DeepCSweede (May 1, 2013)

First off you can have dependents and be single - so just get to makin' some babies and support them and you are good to go with the tax breaks, plus then you can claim head of household and get even more breaks. 

I agree with Chris, do you really want to start practicing abstinence and get married?


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## Duckfat (May 1, 2013)

jayhay said:


> Equal rights under the law. That's it. No one loses anything, some just gain what most already have.



First-year students at the Purdue Vet School were attending their first anatomy class with a real dead cow.
They all gathered around the surgery table with the body covered with a white sheet. 

The professor started the class by telling them, "In Veterinary medicine it is necessary to have two important qualities as a doctor. 

The first is that you not be disgusted by anything involving the animal's body."
For an example, the professor pulled back the sheet, stuck his finger in the butt of the cow, withdrew it, and stuck his finger in his mouth. 

"Go ahead and do the same thing," he told his students. 

The students freaked out, hesitated for several minutes, but eventually took turns sticking a finger in the butt of the dead cow and sucking on it. 

When everyone finished, the Professor looked at them and said, "The second most important quality is observation.
I stuck in my middle finger and sucked on my index finger.
Now learn to pay attention. Life's tough but it's even tougher if you're stupid."


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## jayhay (May 1, 2013)

knyfeknerd said:


> you need to get married first and then learn to be miserable just like the rest of us.



That's kinda like what Dave Chappelle said. Gay people deserve the right to be as miserable as married straight people haha.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (May 1, 2013)

DeepCSweede said:


> First off you can have dependents and be single - so just get to makin' some babies and support them and you are good to go with the tax breaks, plus then you can claim head of household and get even more breaks.
> 
> I agree with Chris, do you really want to start practicing abstinence and get married?



No amount of tax breaks account for the expense of children. I agree with Chris too, I just rationalize the lack of tax benefits as freedom tax.  To each his/her own!


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## Chef Doom (May 2, 2013)

I always wondered what it would take for a no-name bench warmer with garbage stats to get just 15 minutes of serious media attention. I figured it would take no less than murder or illegal betting against your own team. I will add this one to the list.


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## SpikeC (May 2, 2013)

Nice.


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