# Not being a Richard



## Dardeau

This is a parallel thread to the one about not being able to hire decent cooks. 

The general attitude of some, mostly younger, cooks with regards to the importance of organization, time management, urgency, and a sense of pride does not match what Is expected of them. Any attempts to explain that what we are doing is important seem to fall on deaf ears. 

I once saw a chef take the fry cook over to a laminated article from the NYT about a dish at our restaurant, and had the cook read it. He explained that because of that article, others like it, and the quality of food that the restaurant is known for putting out we have an obligation to excellence. First time diners are expecting to be blown away, and a sloppily executed version of a dish that they have read about is going to be worse than just having a ****** meal. This is the basic method I try to use to motivate people. I try to make their job important.

When this does not work I really just want to be a jerk. I try really hard not to, and don't always succeed unfortunately. Telling someone how crappy they are at doing their job does not make them any better at it. But frustration mounts at having to tell the same cook fifteen times a day not to put so much stock in the pan because they are boiling the shrimp to rubber as the sauce tightens, or not to put the chicken on the hot side of the grill because the skin burns and it is really difficult not to yell.

I have worked for chefs where yelling got results. I have worked for chefs where all yelling did was breed resentment. I've worked for chefs that could get great results without yelling or turning into one of those dolls that say four phrases over and over.

I recently heard that Paris Island changed their entire basic training program to better motivate "millennials". I only heard a few things, like never complimenting anyone unless they are performing above their ability, and always complimenting anyone exceeding their ability. I would like to hear more about that, if anyone know how to motivate lazy kids I would bet the Marine Corps has it figured out.

Discuss how not to be a peckerhead in the kitchen and get results.


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## Dardeau

I hope this gets at least half as long as the Shig alert thread I started. It is way more important.


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## brainsausage

I agree Dardeau. I think the toughest part of managing is understanding each individual's inherent skill set, and what it takes to strengthen those skills. It's not a single, heavy handed approach. All that being said- does anyone actually care about craft anymore? Is our society so watered down and mass produced that giving a **** about what the hell youre doing is no longer a concern? Maybe I'm bordering on the politics firewall, but I feel more and more that we're not DOING/MAKING stuff in america.


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## turbochef422

I take pride in my ability to motivate, teach and still be a madman who gets things done and leads by example. It took years for me to be good at it. Some are good managers and leaders right away. But I haven't had luck with the younger cooks right out of school. I much prefer the culinary school drop outs. At least they know they have a lot to learn. It does feel like a dying business though.


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## Godslayer

Your going to have to evolve. Be somewhere kids wanna work. I am blessed working where i do. My employeer feeds me 21 meals a week, and i get a bachelor apartment for $195 cad a month. Ontop of a $15-$22 salary. You need to set yourself apart from restaurant xyz beside you. You basically need to figure out what person xyz wants from you and give them it. When i was hired they did a 4 week and 12 week coaching that was basically a discussion where they asked what i like, what i dislike and what i want from them, i flat out said 5 years from now i want to be better than you(my executive chef kinda laughed but atleast we knew where we both stood) my employer also isnt Afraid of giving awards to good staff, december i worked over 250 hours one week was 80.5 on newyears eve at 6pm when i was off my boss asked to see me in thé office, he knew i was dying, he handed me a bottle of moet rose and said happy new years thanks for the hard work($45 jesture made me think the world of him) i later passes out at 830 which sucks cause i had a date with an aussie Chick i wanted to nail, i stood her up lol. But its about motivating them, generally if you ask them youll get an awnser, maybe do it over a beer, just being an ass wont work, you live in new orleans if you were a dick to me my resume would be in your compétitions hand that same day.


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## panda

some are so bad, that i've resorted to complimenting them simply for not f*cking it up. sad but baby steps..
another tactic i use is to make them think they are doing me a favor if they do something exactly as i ask.
if it's a tight crew, i will take them out for drinks on my tab after a brutal (worse than normal crazy-busy) service.

the lazy ones, i just want them to quit soooooo bad. i can deal with stupid, but not lazy. haven't been able to solve that puzzle yet. i normally just schedule them way fewer hours and pick up the slack myself.

i havent had to deal with lame ass millenials YET, and hope that day never comes.

is it just me, or are cooks calling out sick way more frequently these days? this past month, one or two have called out EVERY DAMN WEEK!


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## kostantinos

cooks work for knowledge , career or money or a combination of the three. I hardly see all three equally in a job . I hardly see everyone interested in all three equally the same when taking a job . Usually one of those elements motivate more than others. I learned early on that i can retain people that want to learn / evolve as cooks better than the ones that need money increases every year . I feel that all of these things come into play into someones progression in different times . The only way to know what time it is , is to know your cooks . If you don't know them you can not evolve them .

I use to be a big ********.But then i realized that this does not work because i have not made the commitment to really get to know my Staff enough before i start yelling at them for certain things. Then i changed my style . The yelling subsided and i found myself more involved into their careers and their daily routines . i became obsessed with pushing their boundaries. You can have a great team but you need to see what each one is made off .

Now days i develop calm and high standard environments. I motivate everyone to do better in every level. I hire slowly and fire fast when i need to fire before any "cancer" spreads to the rest of the body. I actively listen to my "kids" praise them in public and listen to them or discipline them in private . most importantly i allow the rest of my team to make organic decisions. Those usually are the best decisions considering the health of the team . We "make nice" and we keep our egos in check and our lines in check and that keeps the universe going...


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## krx927

kostantinos said:


> cooks work for knowledge , career or money or a combination of the three. I hardly see all three equally in a job . I hardly see everyone interested in all three equally the same when taking a job . Usually one of those elements motivate more than others. I learned early on that i can retain people that want to learn / evolve as cooks better than the ones that need money increases every year . I feel that all of these things come into play into someones progression in different times . The only way to know what time it is , is to know your cooks . If you don't know them you can not evolve them .
> 
> I use to be a big ********.But then i realized that this does not work because i have not made the commitment to really get to know my Staff enough before i start yelling at them for certain things. Then i changed my style . The yelling subsided and i found myself more involved into their careers and their daily routines . i became obsessed with pushing their boundaries. You can have a great team but you need to see what each one is made off .
> 
> Now days i develop calm and high standard environments. I motivate everyone to do better in every level. I hire slowly and fire fast when i need to fire before any "cancer" spreads to the rest of the body. I actively listen to my "kids" praise them in public and listen to them or discipline them in private . most importantly i allow the rest of my team to make organic decisions. Those usually are the best decisions considering the health of the team . We "make nice" and we keep our egos in check and our lines in check and that keeps the universe going...



I am not a pro cook so I do not have kitchen experience. But anyway this was very well written!


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## ecchef

Dardeau said:


> ... if anyone know how to motivate lazy kids I would bet the Marine Corps has it figured out.



I wouldn't.


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## malexthekid

krx927 said:


> I am not a pro cook so I do not have kitchen experience. But anyway this was very well written!



I second this. Very key things that carry across in any business. And one of the big things I agree with is the praising publicly and discipline privately. Everyone hates being publicly humiliated. And if you can discipline in a constructive way, then usually it is greatly appreciated because you can learn from it, not just feel belittled.


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## berko

> is it just me, or are cooks calling out sick way more frequently these days? this past month, one or two have called out EVERY DAMN WEEK!



its the same over here in germany.


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## Johnb

I am a professional cook that has been working in high end kitchens for the last five years, and what I have seen is that every cook responds to a different type of management. I personally like being drilled and having every action scrutinized, but a lot of my peers did not. The best chef I ever worked for would adjust for this, and did a very good job with balancing freak outs with light heartedness.

As far as cooks not sticking around, there is no way around it. I worked at the same restaurant for 2.5 years, and 50% of the new hires would last less than two weeks. Good restaurants are demanding, and chefs need to foster the idea that every cook is part of something greater, and the small details actually do add up to something


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## ecchef

My issues are a little different. 95% of my work force is union, not highly skilled, and have very little English language communication competency. They are 'routine driven' and very resistant to change. They don't like to share essential information with me (e.g. "Why are you slicing carpaccio by hand? "The slicer's broken." "For how long?" "Three days".) Most of them really try hard to 'get it'. Some succeed. Others just don't give a **** because they know that disciplinary action is such a hassle to pursue and usually results in nothing. Once they're established in the system, it's virtually impossible to fire them; I can't even transfer them out unless they agree to go, which they never do. There's zero competitiveness. No one wants to shine (that's culturally frowned upon) so praise is cause for embarrassment; I can't even build a hierarchy within the team. There's me and then there's everybody else. It's very frustrating.
Most of the time I feel like Bill Murray in 'Groundhog Day'.


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## MAS4T0

As a young guy myself who has been on the other side of this quite recently (albeit not in a kitchen) I think I might have some ideas.

I didn't really understand the other perspective until I began running my own businesses and found that people exactly like how I used to be were the worst employees (in terms of headaches for me). I have found that explaining the situation to them from your perspective helps immensely.

I remember that I would completely forgo organisation, tidiness, etc in order to get tasks done as quickly as possible (as I saw the other things as window dressing); I actually still do this now but I have people to tidy up after me. I tried to take as much off my boss's shoulders as possible, and deal with it all myself; I was trying to reduce his stress. Those above me were usually highly stressed anyway and I wanted to reduce that rather than add to it (which I thought I would do by informing them of problems rather than finding work arounds myself).

I realise that this may not be possible in a kitchen, but I have found that a laid back and receptive approach has led to much more transparency (don't shoot the messenger) and I do think explaining why you need people to do things a certain way helps avoid them doing harm by trying to help.


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## spoiledbroth

ecchef said:


> My issues are a little different. 95% of my work force is union, not highly skilled, and have very little English language communication competency. They are 'routine driven' and very resistant to change. They don't like to share essential information with me (e.g. "Why are you slicing carpaccio by hand? "The slicer's broken." "For how long?" "Three days".) Most of them really try hard to 'get it'. Some succeed. Others just don't give a **** because they know that disciplinary action is such a hassle to pursue and usually results in nothing. Once they're established in the system, it's virtually impossible to fire them; I can't even transfer them out unless they agree to go, which they never do. There's zero competitiveness. No one wants to shine (that's culturally frowned upon) so praise is cause for embarrassment; I can't even build a hierarchy within the team. There's me and then there's everybody else. It's very frustrating.
> Most of the time I feel like Bill Murray in 'Groundhog Day'.



This has been pretty informative for me personally! Thanks for sharing


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## panda

i told my self i will never work in a union operated property again after i spent 4 years in a nightmare of a place where it was damn near impossible to fire someone because they would cry to the union and HR would just force them back so that they don't have to deal with the headache. talk about toxic. hearing 'that's not my job' might as well be nails on chalkboard.

laid back approach only works if you have competent staff. if they are lazy, you're not going to motivate them by being 'cool', they'll just keep dragging you down.


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## joshsy81

My philosophy is that the cooks get to choose how I treat them. I have a small kitchen and a small crew with a tight labor budget. I have no room for dead weight. I constantly analyze and shift my management style too. It's extremely ineffective to be the constant Richard. At the same time some people only respond to me being Richard. If it's a repeat problem that just keeps happening and you've resorted to multiple different methods to try to get them to do it then sometimes a point needs to be made. Just need to keep in within reason and stay away from personal attacks and name calling. Keep it specific to the problem and use Richard sparingly.


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## nianton

I was starting think I was the only one observing the decline in quality cooks and an increase in poor attitudes. I would probably be considered a young person, but I have been working in pro kitchens since I was 16. I noticed about 4 years ago new people coming into kitchens came with an attitude like they are a master chef and all knowing. I even worked at a place where the chef only had maybe 3 years experience in a kitchen and only hired people that stroked his ego, sloppy work and experienced workers. I dont know how it happens. I'm about fed up with working with and for people that have no business in the kitchen. What happen to real chefs and cooks in real kitchens?


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## ecchef

nianton said:


> What happen to real chefs and cooks in real kitchens?



They went the way of 1st amendment rights and the Formosan Clouded Leopard.


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## Pirendeus

nianton said:


> I was starting think I was the only one observing the decline in quality cooks and an increase in poor attitudes. I would probably be considered a young person, but I have been working in pro kitchens since I was 16. I noticed about 4 years ago new people coming into kitchens came with an attitude like they are a master chef and all knowing.



I would wager that people haven't changed all that much, but, rather, you've matured, learned proper etiquette, and now notice when things aren't right.


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## Chuckles

There are so many restaurants opening. What happened to the career cook? That's the person I learned everything from. 

Really what I think we are talking about is establishing culture. Your sous chef should be helping you but they know that. I think it is vitally important that your top line cook understand that it is a huge part of their job to bust balls on things like cleaning routine, labeling conventions, product rotation. My best kitchen experiences as a cook, sous or chef have had great cooks that were not shy to pull you aside and tell you to stop poking holes in the bottom of the boat. Instead of pulling your Richard out on the rookie pull your best guy aside and ask him why he deserves to be paid more when he sees these things happening and doesn't say anything. It takes a village. I think it can be more effective for a cook to hear about the little sh!t from someone they see more as a peer. That way the chef can spend more time training on food quality and technique and, of course, making payroll.


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## katana110

you only cook something by heart in the kitchen&#65281;


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