# Tsukiji Masamoto 240mm Gyuto - to thin or not to thin? That's the question



## bartleby (Dec 24, 2014)

Hello,

another beginners question from my side as I want to make my knifes to be they way I like them.

I have a nice Masamoto Gyuto which I bought at the Tsukiji fishmarket in Tokyo, which was really a nice shopping experience btw.

I like the knife a lot for it's feel in the hand and the shape of the blade. Unfortunately cutting with the knife is always a little bit hard, I guess because the profile is not really that much thinned compared to my other Gyuto, see the picture below. 







I am not sure if I should try to thin it by myself as I only have limited experience with thinning (only once with my Zakuri which had the angle "build in") and on the other side the V1 steel of the Masamoto should be quite hard.

- Any advice/tipps on this if I wanna try it by myself? I've watched the video about thinning from Japanese Knife Imports which explains the basics pretty well. Available stones are a 400 Naniwa professional, a big green "noname" 1000 ceramic stone I bought in Tokyo and a 3000/8000 naniwa combi superstone. Also a 1000/4000 combi stone from japan-messer-shop.de is available.

- If it is better to send it to a professional sharpener: can you recommend someone within Europe? I found only JNS at the moment, but the website says that he does not do sharpening at the moment because of travel activities.

Greetings
Stefan


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## EdipisReks (Dec 24, 2014)

That thing definitely needs to be thinned. I would try it yourself. I would pick up a large XC DMT stone, myself. Just take it slow and continually check your work.


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## Ruso (Dec 24, 2014)

It would definitely benefit from thinning.
The procedure is more scary then hard. Be read to ruin the blade's face finish with lots of scratches.


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## bartleby (Dec 24, 2014)

Thanks for the answers. Im more scared about to ruin the blade completely, I don't really care for scratches....


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## Pensacola Tiger (Dec 24, 2014)

bartleby said:


> Thanks for the answers. Im more scared about to ruin the blade completely, I don't really care for scratches....



Scratches won't "ruin" a blade, they are just cosmetic. If they bother you that much, then just learn how to remove them - it's not difficult, just tedious.


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## chinacats (Dec 24, 2014)

Yeah, that's a porker...and an excellent learning opportunity. :biggrin:


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## bartleby (Dec 25, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Scratches won't "ruin" a blade, they are just cosmetic. If they bother you that much, then just learn how to remove them - it's not difficult, just tedious.



I ment more to ruin the blade with a wrong angle or uneven grinding etc. I don't really care about scratches, in the end it's just a tool....

I will think about doing it by myself, but "I would prefer not to". Any recommendations for a professional service within Europe? Anyone know if Lorenzi in Vienna is a good place for a job like this?


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## chinacats (Dec 25, 2014)

Maxim?


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## bartleby (Dec 25, 2014)

I thought about JNS as well, but the website says he does not do sharpening services at the moment....


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## mhpr262 (Dec 25, 2014)

Are you from Germany? Send it to Jürgen Schanz, he is one of the best custom knife makers in the world. He will do a first rate job on your knife. He has his own sub-forum on www.messerforum.net where you can contact him (or you do it by private message). He also has his own website here: http://www.schanz-messer.de/ 

IIRC it costs around 25 without shipping costs.


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## bartleby (Dec 25, 2014)

Thanks for the tip. I'm Austrian. I will try to contact him when I finally decided


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## bartleby (Dec 27, 2014)

OK, I had a lazy evening yesterday and decided tob give it a try. 

Was hard work to get some thinning and its definitely not professional from the results, but the blade is noticeably thinner now. I made some salad today and the cutting performance is really amazing. The V1 steel gets much sharper then my Aogami knives and with the thinned profile it glides through food like butter. I want to thin a little bit more in the future, especially on the handle side, but I will do it with time during regular resharpening.

So far I am really happy now with the knife...

I just had a hell of a time to get the 400 rid stone flat again....

Thanks for your tips.
Stefan


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## Mr.Wizard (Dec 27, 2014)

bartleby said:


> The V1 steel gets much sharper then my Aogami knives...



Why would that be?


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## bartleby (Dec 28, 2014)

Don't know. At least I was able to get it more sharp. Maybe just my skills sith the stones improved...


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## panda (Dec 31, 2014)

it's going to be an on going battle. do two more major sessions, and then do minor thinning every time you sharpen.


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## Mr.Wizard (Dec 31, 2014)

bartleby said:


> I just had a hell of a time to get the 400 rid stone flat again....



I just noticed this. You have far more stamina than I do if you're thinning that ax on a 400 grit. IMO get yourself something a lot coarser unless you simply enjoy the process or see it as an exercise of patience.


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## bartleby (Dec 31, 2014)

I know, but I don't want to spend mmoney on another stone for a single knife. So I guess I have to do it the hard way....


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## akirapuff (Jan 1, 2015)

Shapton 220s are only around 50 bucks and don't need much soaking. And it doesn't wear as fast as some stones.


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## bartleby (Jan 1, 2015)

will think about it. just finished round two today....


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## Benuser (Jan 1, 2015)

Your Naniwa Pro 400 -- the former Chosera -- should do very well. The steel's hardness hasn't too much to do with its abrasion resistance. Do not use much pressure, it will hardly speed up the thinning process but cause a much faster dishing of the stone. Flatten in time. I have done a lot of thinning on vintage carbons with a Chosera 800, so the 400 shouldn't be problem, just a bit faster.


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 1, 2015)

Benuser said:


> Your Naniwa Pro 400 -- the former Chosera -- should do very well. The steel's hardness hasn't too much to do with its abrasion resistance. Do not use much pressure, it will hardly speed up the thinning process but cause a much faster dishing of the stone. Flatten in time. I have done a lot of thinning on vintage carbons with a Chosera 800, so the 400 shouldn't be problem, just a bit faster.



Why would you choose these comparatively fine stones to cut that much metal and when did your attitude change? In the past you wrote:



Benuser said:


> I do the thinning with sandpaper, so higher grits and reducing pressure. Last finishing with ScotchBrite. Not very refined, I agree, but food won't stick. Monosteel carbon blades get patina, so I don't care really.





Benuser said:


> For thinning you may consider the use of sandpaper for steel with a linen backing, grit P120 to start with. Use a marker to make sure not to reach the very edge.





Benuser said:


> Use sandpaper, and level the finger guard with the relief bevel. I use sandpaper on linen, grit P120 to start with.





Benuser said:


> When a lot of steel is to be removed as in your case, you may consider the use of coarse sandpaper (P120) to start with.





Benuser said:


> Sandpaper is fine if you may find the one with a linen backing. Quite common in continental Europe, made by Robert Bosch. I would start at P120, followed by 180, 240. Use edge trailing strokes only. Take care not to overground. What kind of coarse stone do you have? After all the sandpaper work I use a Chosera 400.



Are you saying that now you _start_ thinning on a Chosera 400 or even 800? You used to start with something a lot coarser.


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## Benuser (Jan 2, 2015)

Not a great idea to have a beginner start with P120 on a new knife. And the OP preferred not to buy a new stone.


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