# 240 Gyuto in White #2



## ThinMan (Jul 10, 2018)

I’m looking for a 240 mm Gyuto in White #2. I am trying out Gyutos in different steels and don’t have anything in White #2. What are the forum favorites?

Some of the knives I am looking at are the new profile Mazaki from JNS, the Hinoura Hyakuren from K&S and the Akatsuki from K&S.


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## daveb (Jul 10, 2018)

Gengetsu still available in white?


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## Bensbites (Jul 10, 2018)

Makoto?


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## chinacats (Jul 10, 2018)

Wouldn't be my personal choice but I'd add KS to the mix. If you wanted inexpensive I'd add Gesshin Uraku to the mix.


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## Nemo (Jul 10, 2018)

Quite like my Hinoura Hyakuren. Super easy to sharpen. Edge retention is as expected for White 2 (or maybe slightly better). A gently curved profile. Distal taper is good but nothing special for a Sanjo knife. Fit and finish is not bad although mine came with a tang mounted very low in the handle. Profile is moderately curved. The wide bevel is very slighly concave. It perfoms as a middlewight (although is is fairly light for a middlewight) and makes a nice middleweight worhorse knife.


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## Sleep (Jul 10, 2018)

The knives you mentioned are very different. I'd pick whatever grind, profile, etc, suits you the best. My favourite is Hinoura but others might prefer something flatter or convex ground. 

Here's a pic if you want to compare some profiles-
Akatsuki
Hinoura Ajikataya
Mazaki (old profile)


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## ryanjams (Jul 11, 2018)

Wakui has to be up for consideration as well. The nashiji at aframes are killer blades, no nonsense, stiff but thin behind the edge. I believe the migaki lines from bernal, kns etc. are a touch thinner overall. Don't have a gyuto from Mazaki but grind and ht are very good on my suji and petty, some of my favorite blades. I'll add stainless clad Kochi to the mix if they are ever in stock. I've got a 210 and as little as I use that length I'll probably never sell it.


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## Nomsdotcom (Jul 11, 2018)

Gesshin Ginga if you are interested in the LAZER variety of sharp things


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## labor of love (Jul 11, 2018)

Lots of great advice so far. I’ve used almost everything that’s been mentioned so far. Should finally be getting a hinoura sometime soon. Hiromoto white 2 honyaki is a very affordable way to test honyaki down the road also.


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## Nomsdotcom (Jul 11, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Lots of great advice so far. I’ve used almost everything that’s been mentioned so far. Should finally be getting a hinoura sometime soon. Hiromoto white 2 honyaki is a very affordable way to test honyaki down the road also.


Can you still find the Hiromoto Honyakis around?


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## Nemo (Jul 11, 2018)

Nomsdotcom said:


> Can you still find the Hiromoto Honyakis around?


Looks like Koki has finally sold out.


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## Panamapeet (Jul 11, 2018)

I'm really liking the Hinoura Ajikataya in white 2 I got from cleancut. Way better than the price would suggest


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## krx927 (Jul 11, 2018)

Nobody suggesting standard Kato?


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## ThinMan (Jul 11, 2018)

daveb said:


> Gengetsu still available in white?





chinacats said:


> Wouldn't be my personal choice but I'd add KS to the mix. If you wanted inexpensive I'd add Gesshin Uraku to the mix.



Gengetsu and KS are good calls. Having seen the KS for sale in BST with the photo of a new one next to an old one, I kind of want an old one. Could be hard to find in 240 ...

As @labor of love said, lots of great suggestions here, which doesn't make it easy.

Has anyone tried the new profile Maz?


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## Jville (Jul 11, 2018)

krx927 said:


> Nobody suggesting standard Kato?


Yeah good point. Why doesn't he just go buy one of those. Super easy


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## JaVa (Jul 11, 2018)

Easy to be on board about the Gengetsu, but also take hard long look at the suggested Wakui KU and kasumi. The Kasumi is a sensational knife in every way IMO.


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## muddystone (Jul 11, 2018)

Aframestokyo’s own Tesshu line also has a 240 gyuto in white 2. It is not as tall as others but is very nimble with good fit and finish. Besides it is forged and sharpened by reputable makers. I have one and quite like it.


Edit: Yo Muddy - pls go to new member intro for first post. Once it's approved you'll be able to post anywhere on forum.


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## HRC_64 (Jul 11, 2018)

IMHO best to think about profile, weight,
grind etc. viz..

Mizuno (honyaki), Masamoto KS 
Y. Ikeda/Kasahara (custom), heji, mazaki,
yoshikane, etc

Lots of variation amongst that group.


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## ThinMan (Jul 12, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> IMHO best to think about profile, weight,
> grind etc. viz..
> 
> Mizuno (honyaki), Masamoto KS
> ...



I am looking for a medium weight san mai gyuto, about 50 mm high and preferably close to or more than 240 mm long, relatively thin behind the edge, with good distal taper. I do like the KS profile but not the current KS.


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## JaVa (Jul 12, 2018)

ThinMan said:


> I am looking for a medium weight san man gyuto, about 50 mm high and preferably close to or more than 240 mm long, relatively thin behind the edge, with good distal taper. I do like the KS profile but not the current KS.



You just described perfectly the Wakui W2 SS clad (kasumi/hairline) gyuto. 

...And I'll raise your bet with some lovely convex grind and flawless F&F. (Though maybe pick one without the standard handle with the plastic ferrule)


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## HRC_64 (Jul 12, 2018)

ThinMan said:


> I am looking for a medium weight san man gyuto, about 50 mm high and preferably close to or more than 240 mm long, relatively thin behind the edge, with good distal taper. I do like the KS profile but not the current KS.



Are you sure you're not looking for a shig?


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## ThinMan (Jul 12, 2018)

JaVa said:


> You just described perfectly the Wakui W2 SS clad (kasumi/hairline) gyuto.
> 
> ...And I'll raise your bet with some lovely convex grind and flawless F&F. (Though maybe pick one without the standard handle with the plastic ferrule)



I’m liking the one at Epicurean Edge.


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## ThinMan (Jul 12, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> Are you sure you're not looking for a shig?



Not at all. I’m sure I’d be very happy with a Shig.


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## chinacats (Jul 12, 2018)

But Shig is not white steel...


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## daveb (Jul 12, 2018)

Shig is shig steel.


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## rickg17 (Jul 12, 2018)

ThinMan said:


> I’m liking the one at Epicurean Edge.


Bought that a couple of weeks ago. Zero regrets. Very nice knife.


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## labor of love (Jul 12, 2018)

ThinMan said:


> I’m liking the one at Epicurean Edge.


Also check out KU stainless clad wakui at Aframes


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## rogue108 (Jul 13, 2018)

I second the Wakui recommendation. If the stainless clad Kochi was available that would be my first choice


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## chinacats (Jul 13, 2018)

I don't think any of the Kochis are white steel either...


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## Midsummer (Jul 13, 2018)

I have read that Kato also has a private stock of special steel and that Heiji uses a proprietary steel as well.


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## chinacats (Jul 13, 2018)

Midsummer said:


> I have read that Kato also has a private stock of special steel and that Heiji uses a proprietary steel as well.



??? Thread title ???

Am I the only one that seems a bit confused here?


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## Midsummer (Jul 13, 2018)

chinacats said:


> ??? Thread title ???
> 
> Am I the only one that seems a bit confused here?



I do not know how confused you are or what about. But the op is interested in white 2- can we agree on that?

Also the two makers I referenced above have been brought up in this thread- agreed?

If you are asking in which thread I read this information- “??? Thread title ???” (I guess that is what that means- so I am confused about something too.) I would tell you that I did quite a bit of research before I bought my Kato and my Heiji’s. I did not read exclusively from this site to come to my conclusions. 

If you ask me nicely I will see if I can find it to share.

Hopefully I have helped your confusion. Or maybe you are talking about something other than what you quoted?


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## Gjackson98 (Jul 13, 2018)

Midsummer said:


> I do not know how confused you are or what about. But the op is interested in white 2- can we agree on that?
> 
> Also the two makers I referenced above have been brought up in this thread- agreed?
> 
> ...



Easy guys.. Its Friday! 
I want to know! What was your research conclusion on Kato and Heiji steel?


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## Midsummer (Jul 13, 2018)

I will look up th links. At work right now. But will drop the links later whether I am right or wrong.


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## chinacats (Jul 13, 2018)

I was referencing the title/subject of this thread. My point is that the op is looking for a knife specifically in white 2 steel...Heiji doesn't use white steel (his carbon is of the Swedish variety also used by Shig)...kato does but it's not his 'proprietary steel' used in the workhorse...just like the Shig or Kochi's mentioned above...

All great knives mentioned but none are related to this thread though the standard Kato may apply (I just don't have enough interest/background to know it as more than white steel).


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## Grunt173 (Jul 13, 2018)

I have several white steel knives but lately,I am really liking the Makoto.


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## HRC_64 (Jul 13, 2018)

chinacats said:


> ??? Thread title ???
> 
> Am I the only one that seems a bit confused here?



IF you actually read the op, he basically is looking for gyutos in new steels he doesn't have. 

Has Toyama b2 (so no Watanabe b2)
Has Mario w[2] (so no KS)
Has Y.Ikeda b1 suminigashi (so no b1 Mizuno, no Miz Honyaki because length)
Has Hd2 (also no tool steels, or lasers)
No wide bevels (so no Heji)

So what's left?

If we're narrowing the list to Sanjo makers,
white steel typically doesn't represent
the best they offer.

And Iwasaki isn't so far from white steel that
it really matters (in this context).

PS - shig vs kato debate is above my pay grade


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## panda (Jul 13, 2018)

cleancut's house brand knife looks dope.
https://cleancut.se/butik/knivmodeller/kockknivar/kockkniv21_kashima_sanjo-octo-detail
stainless clad white2






my yoshikane white2 is from sanjo and is my favorite heat treat of white steel.. i just wish it was thicker spine and iron clad instead of stainless.
that being said i rather have heiji iwasaki steel if given a choice but in the knife of my choice


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## JBroida (Jul 13, 2018)

chinacats said:


> I don't think any of the Kochis are white steel either...



The stainless clad one is white 2


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## chinacats (Jul 13, 2018)

JBroida said:


> The stainless clad one is white 2



Thanks Jon, I stand corrected...I've only used the ku and migaki.


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## Midsummer (Jul 13, 2018)

To be clear- my impression is that Heiji and Kato both use their own steels and NOT white 2. That is what I meant by special and proprietary. My apologies if I was the source of any confusion.


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## Midsummer (Jul 13, 2018)

BTW it was the Kato workhorse I researched and believed to be proprietary (and that is what I bought). I have yet to have time to complete my review, but initially it appears that Kato has done some white steel work. #1 or #2 I am not sure yet.


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## JBroida (Jul 13, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Thanks Jon, I stand corrected...I've only used the ku and migaki.



V2 and blue 2 respectively


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## chinacats (Jul 13, 2018)

JBroida said:


> V2 and blue 2 respectively



The V2 ku is one of my favorite knives (I'm due for another)...and likely the reason I always consider V2 one of my favorite steels


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## ThinMan (Jul 13, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> IF you actually read the op, he basically is looking for gyutos in new steels he doesn't have.
> 
> Has Toyama b2 (so no Watanabe b2)
> Has Mario w1 (so no KS)
> ...



Thanks for your close reading @HRC_64 !

I have the following knives:

Takeda Gyuto 240 AS
Shiro Kamo Damascus Gyuto 240 AS
Yoshikazu Ikeda Suminagashi Gyuto 210 B1
Sakai Takayuki Syousin Sakura Gyuto 270 B2
Matsubara Gyuto 240 B2
Toyama Gyuto 270 B2
Carter Funayuki 143 W1
Mario Ingoglia Gyuto differential heat treat 245 W2 Tool Steel
Konosuke HD2 Gyuto 270
Butch Harner Paring 4” XHP

I have nothing in White #2, There are many other steels (beside special Shig and Kato steels, which are likewise above my pay grade) that I do not have, e.g., no PM, no White 3, a true stainless, but I am currently interested in White #2, in part because it is supposed to be relatively easy to sharpen. As I am just learning the stones, I though it would be useful to have such a knife, also ideally meeting the other criteria I set out above.

I appreciate all the input to this thread and the wealth of information made available.

Wakui from Epic Edge is still in the lead.


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## rickg17 (Jul 13, 2018)

I'd just grab the Wakui. It's inexpensive as these things go and it's a great knife and great example of W2 craftsmanship.


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## ashy2classy (Jul 13, 2018)

rickg17 said:


> I'd just grab the Wakui. It's inexpensive as these things go and it's a great knife and great example of W2 craftsmanship.



This.

If you like brawnier blades, this thing fits the bill. The price from AFrames is a f*ckin steal, IMO. I love mine! Love my Mazaki too.


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## McMan (Jul 13, 2018)

panda said:


> my yoshikane white2 is from sanjo and is my favorite heat treat of white steel.. i just wish it was thicker spine and iron clad instead of stainless.



Your wishes came true, Panda... Yoshi white steel w/ iron cladding--plus on sale...
http://bernal-cutlery.shoplightspeed.com/yoshikane-240mm-gyuto-shirogami-tsuchime-ho.html

OP, this one's worth considering vs. Wakui. Wakui will definitely be thinner behind the edge. The yoshi will be heavier.


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## panda (Jul 13, 2018)

Nah I'm not fan of wide bevel.


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## chinacats (Jul 13, 2018)

If you have a Murray Carter then you have white 1, same as white 2 but a bit more carbon...I'd not try too hard to get white 3 unless you're looking for an inexpensive honyaki (A-frames).

Also looks like you need some V2!


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## ThinMan (Jul 13, 2018)

chinacats said:


> If you have a Murray Carter then you have white 1, same as white 2 but a bit more carbon...I'd not try too hard to get white 3 unless you're looking for an inexpensive honyaki (A-frames).
> 
> Also looks like you need some V2!



The only White 3 I have seen is in the Yoshikazu Ikeda Honyakis. I would buy one of those. Not quite ready yet.

I don't really know what V2 is. What is it and what makes it good?


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## rogue108 (Jul 13, 2018)

chinacats said:


> I don't think any of the Kochis are white steel either...


Stainless Clad Kochi have White # 2 cores
Full Carbon Kochi's are V2
Migaki Kochi's are Blue # 2

Didn't read the other responses first. Jon already cleared this up.


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## JBroida (Jul 13, 2018)

ThinMan said:


> The only White 3 I have seen is in the Yoshikazu Ikeda Honyakis. I would buy one of those. Not quite ready yet.
> 
> I don't really know what V2 is. What is it and what makes it good?



Just imagine a steel that fits between white 2 and Blue 2 and that’s essentially how it performs


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## Jville (Jul 13, 2018)

Grunt173 said:


> I have several white steel knives but lately,I am really liking the Makoto.



This one should be on the list to consider, great knife!


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## Jville (Jul 13, 2018)

This new qoute way is messing me up, anyways @panda +1 dope.


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## ThinMan (Jul 13, 2018)

That new profile Mazaki does look nice though ...

As does the Gengetsu ...

So many knives, so little time.


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## rickg17 (Jul 13, 2018)

The reason I'd pull the trigger on the Wakui is that it's relatively cheap and I'm sure you could sell it for a reasonably small discount here if you don't like it. The Gengetsu is a nice looking knife but almost 2x the price etc. I mean... I understand, having just gone through this. My solution was to grab the Wakui (and it helped that I live near EpicEdge so I could go look at and handle the thing). Of course... you could always buy 2 or 3 and sell what you don't want


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## Nemo (Jul 13, 2018)

rickg17 said:


> Of course... you could always buy 2 or 3 and sell what you don't want



Or keep them all! [emoji1]


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## Midsummer (Jul 13, 2018)

ThinMan said:


> I am looking for a medium weight san mai gyuto, about 50 mm high and preferably close to or more than 240 mm long, relatively thin behind the edge, with good distal taper. I do like the KS profile but not the current KS.





ThinMan said:


> I am currently interested in White #2, in part because it is supposed to be relatively easy to sharpen. As I am just learning the stones, I though it would be useful to have such a knife, also ideally meeting the other criteria I set out above.
> 
> I appreciate all the input to this thread and the wealth of information made available.
> 
> Wakui from Epic Edge is still in the lead.



Even though white 2 is "easy to sharpen" you are going to scuff up some blades as you develop your sharpening technique. Of course I don't know exactly where you are in that progression; but just to have a knife you can sharpen and then dull and sharpen again is good. You really do not want to do this with a knife that has had a lot of man hours invested in the finish because it is likely you will scratch it up learning. 

Also consider learning on a petty (150mm or so). Smaller knives will inspire confidence.

Other steels I have found respond well to my sharpening have been R2 and Heiji special stainless. (BTW the two steels he works with are the special stainless and the special Swedish (carbon) http://www.nakayaheiji.co.jp/Index-English.html )


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## ThinMan (Jul 15, 2018)

Nemo said:


> Or keep them all! [emoji1]



That’s the most likely outcome.


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## Grunt173 (Jul 15, 2018)

Wakui from Epic Edge ? Is that the one they call the Magaki Chef Knife that is made by Mr. Wakui?


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## chinacats (Jul 15, 2018)

Magaki is the type of finish...


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## Grunt173 (Jul 15, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Magaki is the type of finish...



Ok,thanks for the quick come back. While I have you on the phone,lol,is the Wakui considered a work horse? Looking at the weight of even the 210,it does seem a bit heavy.If I recall,it said something like 6.40 oz.

edit to add: Looking at maybe ordering from Epic Edge but it doesn't appear to be a secure site to order from.Looks like they are a little behind the times.


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## JaVa (Jul 15, 2018)

W2 SS clad/kasumi/migaki/hairline AFAIK are all the same knife with different names and some with different handles. Just be carefull as some vendors are selling the iron clad version which looks the same, but is supposedly a bit thicker and (maybe?) not as thin behind the edge. 

I wouldn’t call mine workhorse. It’s WAY too thin behind the edge for that. My 240 weighs about 210g. Some of that weight comes from the blade being a bit tall 52 mm and it’s few mm oversized. How ever it does have decent amount of spine.


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## Grunt173 (Jul 15, 2018)

JaVa said:


> W2 SS clad/kasumi/migaki/hairline AFAIK are all the same knife with different names and some with different handles. Just be carefull as some vendors are selling the iron clad version which looks the same, but is supposedly a bit thicker and (maybe?) not as thin behind the edge.
> 
> I wouldn’t call mine workhorse. It’s WAY too thin behind the edge for that. My 240 weighs about 210g. Some of that weight comes from the blade being a bit tall 52 mm and it’s few mm oversized. How ever it does have decent amount of spine.


Thank you JaVa.


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## Nomsdotcom (Jul 15, 2018)

Grunt173 said:


> Ok,thanks for the quick come back. While I have you on the phone,lol,is the Wakui considered a work horse? Looking at the weight of even the 210,it does seem a bit heavy.If I recall,it said something like 6.40 oz.
> 
> edit to add: Looking at maybe ordering from Epic Edge but it doesn't appear to be a secure site to order from.Looks like they are a little behind the times.



You could always call them and make an order if you are that concerned about web security


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## Grunt173 (Jul 15, 2018)

Nomsdotcom said:


> You could always call them and make an order if you are that concerned about web security


Most definitely, that is what I plan to do if and when I place an order with them.


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## ThinMan (Jul 17, 2018)

Kintaro from JKI?


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## ared715 (Aug 21, 2018)

The aforementioned Kashima Sanjo from Cleancut is very intriguing to me as well.... very thin behind the edge and supposedly made by Yoshikane.... another site has them and they hinted that they’re made by Yoshi on their product page...


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