# Not to start a flame war about edge pro versus freehand but ...



## gic (Dec 27, 2014)

So I started with an edge pro and like most people here have tried to move on to stones from it. So, I have been learning freehand, I've gotten OK but hardly consider myself much pass the beginner stage and at my age, with my muscle control, am unlikely to get all that much better... 

Still, I have been thinking about the optimal strategy in the abstract and also of course for someone like me who has both stones and an edgepro along with a nice space for sharpening and so I can have the edgepro up all the time. 

And I have decided that doing the high grit finishing on the edgepro is actually better then my using stones-and perhaps would be the case for most non experts who have an edgepro around and are now using stones.

My reasoning is as follows, small mistakes in angles at high grits are easy to make and greatly effect the final edge. With the edgepro, I can have a perfect final angle (say for a microbevel) and can still do things like thinning and putting the basic back bevels on stones where absolute precision is less necessary - and besides doing this isn't really possible on an edge pro anyway. 

I wonder what other people think about my reasoning?? Again, I am talking only about the final grits in a progression...


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (Dec 27, 2014)

I suppose it depends on what you call high grits 

High grit for my double bevel is 6000, for single bevels i might go 10k-12k. I wouldn't bring an edgepro near my singlebevels in either case.


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## gic (Dec 27, 2014)

Obviously depends on the knife, for my wusthof beaters, I finish at about 2k, for my beloved Devin ITK or my ZK Kramers 8k


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## Pensacola Tiger (Dec 27, 2014)

I also started with an Edge Pro, almost seven years ago, but made the switch to freehand after about a year. It took two years to become comfortable with freehand, so perhaps you've not given yourself enough time. 

I've voiced my opinions about the limitations of the Edge Pro elsewhere on the forums, and I won't repeat them, suffice to say that I no longer own one. If you are willing to accept those limitations, then keep using yours, by all means. It comes down to what works for you. 

It only takes a single pass on one side of the blade to put a microbevel on an edge, so the precision of the Edge Pro is really not necessary. Where precision is needed is in establishing the bevel with the lower grits, so, if you don't mind my saying so, you're using the Edge Pro at the wrong point in your sharpening.

Rick


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## gic (Dec 27, 2014)

That is interesting, so perhaps optimally I should use stones for thinning and for putting the final bevel on and for the back bevel use the edgepro and see!


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## EdipisReks (Dec 27, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> I also started with an Edge Pro, almost seven years ago, but made the switch to freehand after about a year. It took two years to become comfortable with freehand, so perhaps you've not given yourself enough time.
> 
> I've voiced my opinions about the limitations of the Edge Pro elsewhere on the forums, and I won't repeat them, suffice to say that I no longer own one. If you are willing to accept those limitations, then keep using yours, by all means. It comes down to what works for you.
> 
> ...



As always, Rick is absolutely spot on.


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## Mrmnms (Dec 27, 2014)

See , that wasn't so bad.


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## Mucho Bocho (Dec 27, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> I also started with an Edge Pro, almost seven years ago, but made the switch to freehand after about a year. It took two years to become comfortable with freehand, so perhaps you've not given yourself enough time.
> 
> I've voiced my opinions about the limitations of the Edge Pro elsewhere on the forums, and I won't repeat them, suffice to say that I no longer own one. If you are willing to accept those limitations, then keep using yours, by all means. It comes down to what works for you.
> 
> ...



Could it have been said any better.

Dave, can we make this a sticky?


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## Namaxy (Dec 27, 2014)

Yep - 

Rick says it best.....particularly regarding lower grits.


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## Geo87 (Dec 27, 2014)

Yep very well said! No point trying to polish an inconsistent bevel. A nice consistent bevel set at low grit is the foundation for everything.


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## gic (Dec 28, 2014)

OK to summarize, my new method will be: thin with stones - because absolute consistency of the angle isn't so important - it just needs to be good enough. Set first bevels with edge pro, then microbevel with a fine stone 

Thanks everyone...


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## Pensacola Tiger (Dec 28, 2014)

gic said:


> OK to summarize, my new method will be: thin with stones - because absolute consistency of the angle isn't so important - it just needs to be good enough. Set first bevels with edge pro, then microbevel with a fine stone
> 
> Thanks everyone...



Let us know how it goes, okay?


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## Zwiefel (Dec 28, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Let us know how it goes, okay?



^^^That means pictures


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## osakajoe (Dec 29, 2014)

Sharpen ten knives a day freehand for a year. You'll learn.


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## mikemac (Dec 30, 2014)

FWIW, my first 10+ years of sharpening were freehand, and freehand with various guides. And I always had an interest in the EP. Got one, used it for a while. Sold it. IMHO, if we are talking about (so called) double beveled knives - gyutos, chefs, suji's and slicers, etc., I think the EP is a great tool, and produces a great edge.
The learning curve and skill set for the EP is very different than the learning curve and skill set for freehand, and I found that using both at the same time caused both skill sets to be stunted. Also, you will be able to produce a really sharp edge and gain confidence sooner in the learning curve with the EP (probably the first or second use!). I would recommend you make a commitment to one or the other, and enjoy the results. If you have not yet been afflicted by the sharpening station variant of the knife nerd OCD, no need to contract it now. But posted pictures will let us know you are infected.


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## Mr.Wizard (Dec 31, 2014)

mikemac, your experience fascinates me. Why do you feel that "using both at the same time caused both skill sets to be stunted?" Do you mean using a combination of freehand and guided sharpening on the same knife, or rather that merely adding experience the Edge Pro somehow degraded your freehand ability? If the latter I would have thought that 10+ years of freehand sharpening would have firmly engrained that skill. Is the skill really that perishable?


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## gic (Dec 31, 2014)

Actually I started on the edge pro and got pretty good at it, it's stones I am currently on a slow learning curve :- ). 

There is no question that I can currently get an edge much sharper using the edge pro then with stones (helps to have *lots* of different ep shaped stones then what the edgepro company makes!), but what I can't do on an edge pro is really do a good job on thinning behind the edge - even with the pro model and the low angles it affords, you can't really thin up the grind on an edgepro.

So in order to learn how to do that and also cause stones are cool, I started learning how to use stones...


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## chinacats (Dec 31, 2014)

gic said:


> Actually I started on the edge pro and got pretty good at it, it's stones I am currently on a slow learning curve :- ).
> 
> There is no question that I can currently get an edge much sharper using the edge pro then with stones (helps to have *lots* of different ep shaped stones then what the edgepro company makes!), but what I can't do on an edge pro is really do a good job on thinning behind the edge - even with the pro model and the low angles it affords, you can't really thin up the grind on an edgepro.
> 
> So in order to learn how to do that and also cause stones are cool, I started learning how to use stones...



I personally believe is easier to learn how to thin freehand than it is to sharpen. You just put the blade on the stones as it lies and go at it--and pay attention to what you're doing.


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## mikemac (Dec 31, 2014)

gic said:


> .... and also cause stones are cool...



Oh, in that case cue the music: 
[video=youtube_share;rY0WxgSXdEE]http://youtu.be/rY0WxgSXdEE[/video]

Mr. Wiz: If I sharpened multiple knives daily for 10+ years, that would be one thing, but I don't. I try to sharpen once every few months, even longer if I'm working my knifey 12 step program. As with any activity there are layers of muscle and mental memory, and all kinds of nuance. So imagine you're a really good golfer, but you put down the sticks for 6 months. On your first trip back to the driving range you decide to alternate hitting balls and learning to juggle chainsaws. After an hour it's doubtful you would be as good at either vs. just practicing one skill set. (will someone else please find the appropriate Monty Python clip to insert here).
For the individual who joins this forum, buys knives and wants to keep them sharp to enhance his kitchen experience, I say pick a method and have at it. If you think using knives sharpened at 12* per side vs. a 3 quarter stack makes a difference in the way your food tastes or the enjoyment you bring to the dining table than - IMHO - you're missing something. Unless you're a professional. If you have a knife in your hand 5 -10 -15 hours a day, 6 days a week, you probably can tell the difference. And I defer to you.


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## Mr.Wizard (Dec 31, 2014)

gic said:


> There is no question that I can currently get an edge much sharper using the edge pro then with stones (helps to have *lots* of different ep shaped stones then what the edgepro company makes!)



Which are your favorites and why, please?

mikemac, thank you, I think I understand now.


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## cheflivengood (Dec 31, 2014)

I have never used the EP but I don't think I would find it as therapeutic as by hand


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