# Naniwa Professional (fka Chosera) vs Superstone (5000grit)



## vk2109 (Oct 23, 2019)

Hello i am in the process of replacing a heavily used Suheiro 1000/6000 i had 
with new stones. 

I have got the Naniwa Professional (fka Chosera) 1000 grit already but for the 5000 grit 
i am looking i am wondering why such price difference btw the 
Naniwa super stone 5000 ($60) vs the professional 5000 ($150) ?

any recos/feedback ?

Thank you

Vadim


----------



## Qapla' (Oct 23, 2019)

From what I've read, the Naniwa Pro 5000 is considered the weakest of that line. No, don't spend $150 on it. 

Have you considered, say, a Morihei 4000 or 6000? From what I'm reading, other possibilities might include an Arashiyama 6000 or a Shapton Glass 6000, depending on what you're looking for.


----------



## Benuser (Oct 23, 2019)

The Chosera 5k is indeed to be avoided. Softer than any other, no tactile feedback. The 3k gives an end result of some 4k according to the JIS standard. Highly recommended.


----------



## Michi (Oct 23, 2019)

Suehiro Rika 5000 is a fine choice, at much lower cost.


----------



## kayman67 (Oct 23, 2019)

Hm. This is strange having used the Chosera 5000 plus Miyabi 5000 and Kramer 5000, both being more or less same as Chosera and none seemed soft or bad in any way.
On the other hand, the defunct resurrected SuperStone 5000 is really soft, albeit capable of a very good polish.

In US you could consider one of the 2 Gesshin 6000 stones, any that you might feel better with.

In EU you could try Rika 5000 or Shapton Glass 6000 HC (even the 4k), both available at great prices.


----------



## Scribbled (Oct 23, 2019)

Sorry for the unhelpful question, I almost bought the Suehiro 1/6000 as my starter stone (got a shapton 1+5K instead) I’m curious how you found it.


----------



## inferno (Oct 23, 2019)

In this segment 4-6k i can recommend the shapton glass 4k. very fast and effective. 100% splash and go, dries in like 5 minutes. wears slowly, stays flat. not too expensive.

shapton glass HC 6k (gray stone), definitely takes it up a notch from the 4k, its a fast stone for its grit. polishes like a 8-10-12k or so depending on what you compare it too. this scary sharp territory. splash and go.

I also like the cleancut.se kitayama 4k. it feels nicer than the glass stones, quite easy to cut into if you make a mistake, and its a softer feeling stone, it handles r2 and other powder steels quite well imo. splash and go.

shapton pro 8k. does not polish at all, is very very fast for its grit, feels ok to me at least. quite expensive. splash and go. it can easily follow up after a 1k (the 12k pro can do this too, its that fast). quite a bit overkill on stainless and powder. the 6k HC is too imo.


----------



## inferno (Oct 23, 2019)

Benuser said:


> The Chosera 5k is indeed to be avoided. Softer than any other, no tactile feedback. The 3k gives an end result of some 4k according to the JIS standard. Highly recommended.



also all the choseras/naniwa pros are quite prone to cracking. its hit or miss with this series imo. even the low grit ones.


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 23, 2019)

+1 for Shapton Glass 4k.


----------



## kayman67 (Oct 23, 2019)

inferno said:


> also all the choseras/naniwa pros are quite prone to cracking. its hit or miss with this series imo. even the low grit ones.


It's not only them. Where they had problems, I also saw the same with Shapton and Sigma. Unfortunately. They just usually go first. But slowly as opposed to Sigma, that shatter with a bang, no warning.


----------



## gman (Oct 23, 2019)

i'm surprised to read people saying the naniwa pro 5k is soft. i really enjoy mine and it's harder than anything else i've tried above 3k.


----------



## inferno (Oct 23, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> It's not only them. Where they had problems, I also saw the same with Shapton and Sigma. Unfortunately. They just usually go first. But slowly as opposed to Sigma, that shatter with a bang, no warning.



I trust you. shaptons are not for soaking, but me personally i have not seen any spiderwebbing or cracking with mine. and i have many different pros and glass. 

I was under the impression that the lower grit choseras were immune to this but my 800 is starting to spiderweb lightly. i spray painted it with clear coat, thick layer to try to combat this. we'll see how it goes. it has never ever been soaked. just used.


----------



## kayman67 (Oct 23, 2019)

Seems like no soaking makes little difference.
Do you live in a dry environment? That's the only place I saw problems. Exactly the same stones in a different location are fine after many years.


----------



## inferno (Oct 23, 2019)

i dont know really. i'm in scandinavia. so its not a jungle or anything but its not a desert either.


----------



## Benuser (Oct 24, 2019)

gman said:


> i'm surprised to read people saying the naniwa pro 5k is soft. i really enjoy mine and it's harder than anything else i've tried above 3k.


Great to hear. My experience was with the old Chosera. The 5k was softer than anything in the series. My complaint though was the lack of tactile feedback. Had to guess whether a burr had gone. Very different from any other Chosera or the Naniwa Junpaku (Snow-white).


----------



## kayman67 (Oct 24, 2019)

Maybe there was something off with that particular one.


----------



## Sharpchef (Oct 24, 2019)

5k Chosera is the best in the line, feedback etc... fast enough for touchups (the only Synthetik in that grid range....) . But it will get fissures after using sometime.... Like the 10k.... the others (i only have the discs.... don`t get these fissures (they are in the sun in cold weather to dry the whole year, just not in the winter when i pack my grinding machine in the cellar. 

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## Benuser (Oct 25, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> Maybe there was something off with that particular one.


Maybe it's formula has changed since. The Naniwa Pro series isn't exactly the same as the Chosera.


----------



## kayman67 (Oct 25, 2019)

I'm not talking about the new one.
But there were a couple of Choseras out there, not sure if they changed anything. One was a bit bigger. 
Anyway, I just took mine out and did a quick run with Hap40. Got a mirror edge back in a couple of minutes. It's one of the hardest 5000/6000 stone. If you are right on the bevel, it's smooth and silent. I moved a bit just to hear the change. Immediately I could feel and hear that I'm not where I should be.


----------



## Alder26 (Oct 25, 2019)

The super stone generally are good, but they are some of the softest synthetics I have used. Additionally they clog relatively quickly. They are good stones but there are much better regarded stones for the same or less money.


----------



## inferno (Oct 25, 2019)

i only have the naniwa pros not the actual choseras (about what i wrote earlier up here, just so you know).

ok about the superstones...

alder26:
This is why they cost like half of the choseras/pros.

i still see that the SS can have some usable applications though. i know stringer on here cut a "fish hook" groove in his 2k to fix blade profiles, he just rubs it in the grove until the profile is good. phucking genious i say! and you cant do that with harder stones at all. since you will never be able to get that groove in there in the first place (easily at least). 

I think the SS stones are made softer because they are made for blue and white steel only pretty much and then their dishing resistance is good enough. and they are quite cheap considering. and you also need to condition them often to keep them cutting. but they are cheap. you dont expect to get the "most bestest stones in the entire universe" for this price. personally though, to be honest, shapton pros are in the same price range and they are better. so i would rather get those. 

The SS polish much finer than their grit suggests while the shappros dont, at all. and this could also be positive or negative depending on what you want really. is time money for you or not  

imo there is no real good and bad, its just different applications and uses (and expectations). with that being said. i still feel some stuff is a lot better than some other stuff. ymmv of course.


----------



## podzap (Oct 26, 2019)

inferno said:


> also all the choseras/naniwa pros are quite prone to cracking. its hit or miss with this series imo. even the low grit ones.



I've got a Naniwa Pro 400, 1000 and 3000. Had them in use now since last winter and no signs of cracking.

When I finish using them, I put them in my dish-drying rack above the sink for a minimum of 12 hours. It's basically a steel mesh bottom so that water can drip out and air can flow in. Finnish invention 

It has been said repeatedly that they will crack if not properly dried prior to storing. If the drying requirements are too aggravating, then something else should be purchased.

Personally, I love the Naniwa Pros. I've probably got a maximum of 28 years still to live and they will easily last me the rest of my life.


----------



## Alder26 (Oct 26, 2019)

The super stones are also extremely homogenous and can be useful for polishing bevels. They will make your hagane extremely bright and reflective


----------



## gman (Oct 26, 2019)

Alder26 said:


> The super stones are also extremely homogenous and can be useful for polishing bevels. They will make your hagane extremely bright and reflective



this is true. i have the supers in 8k and 12k, and they can produce a perfect mirror finish, even on soft stainless cladding.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Aug 1, 2020)

inferno said:


> I trust you. shaptons are not for soaking, but me personally i have not seen any spiderwebbing or cracking with mine. and i have many different pros and glass.
> 
> I was under the impression that the lower grit choseras were immune to this but my 800 is starting to spiderweb lightly. i spray painted it with clear coat, thick layer to try to combat this. we'll see how it goes. it has never ever been soaked. just used.


Curious to know how’s your chosera 800 now? Mine is the real chosera series 800 and it starts to crack recently. I’d like to know the result of your efforts so that I know if it’s worth trying.


----------



## Bear (Aug 1, 2020)

inferno said:


> also all the choseras/naniwa pros are quite prone to cracking. its hit or miss with this series imo. even the low grit ones.


I've had my 800 Chosera for 3 years now, no cracking, I returned three 3k's back to Amazon because of cracks.


----------



## Qapla' (Aug 1, 2020)

My Naniwa Pro 800 and 3000 are and have been perfectly fine. No especial care besides letting them dry (which I do with all stones). However, if so many others are having problems, maybe I just got lucky and have good ones.


----------



## Kawa (Aug 1, 2020)

My prof400 and chosera 600 don't crack either. it might be just luck.

This is what I do to dry them, and I haven't read to exact same thing around here, so it might be worth the try:
I place my stones diagonal (about 30-60 degree) to a wall or on a pot or something.
While drying I regularly flip them, and this is something i dont read about.

If your flip your stone after 5 minutes (so the bottum becomes the upper side and the side on the floor becomes the side against the wall/ on the pot.) you will see that all the water sank to the lowest spot, meaning that after flipping, the top side is more wet then the bottum but even more, the part of the stone that hit the floor (and is now against the wall/ on the pot) is obviously noticable the most wet spot.

So while drying i flip regularly, starting the first time after 5 minuts, second time in half an hour, 3th time in two hours and before bed once more...

I dont know if it helps or that I''m just lucky so far. Been using the stones for 3-4 years now.

If my story is hard to make a picture of, i can draw something in paint to make myself more clear


----------



## Kawa (Aug 1, 2020)

And for OP:

I have the superstone 2k and 5k. I dont have the chosera/pro 5000.

I had the same question a while ago (why so much price difference?) and this is what I found: the superstones are heavily used in the world of straight razors and not so much for kitchen knives.
The superstones tend to give a highly polished finish, which, I found out lately through this forum, is not to be adviced for kitchen knives.
I can confirm that the superstone 2k already gives a mirror shine in where you can see your facial hair, teeth and pupils (wide bevel). The 5k does do this even better (less scratches).

Recently I bought a shapton pro 2k (for those who remember my topic about what higher finish stone I should buy after superstone5k: i didn't do it) to really compare a superstone 2k versus an other appreciated/good reviewed stone and indeed the superstone does finish in a higher mirror polish.

Im not on the level that I can say which stone makes my knife sharper. I am to inconsistent, so the 'knife i succeeded better on is the sharpest'


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 1, 2020)

Kawa said:


> And for OP:
> 
> I have the superstone 2k and 5k. I dont have the chosera/pro 5000.
> 
> ...


Just so you know, Shapton stones aren't known for polishing. You basically have the 2 extremes between those 2 stones. Most other stones will fall somewhere in between them.


----------



## Kawa (Aug 1, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Just so you know, Shapton stones aren't known for polishing. You basically have the 2 extremes between those 2 stones. Most other stones will fall somewhere in between them.



Good to know 

I've read much about the shapton pro 1k being coarser then 1k. Couldn't find much about the 'true grit' of the pro2k, other then one member saying he/she had the feeling the 2k felt about as true 2k.


----------



## Kawa (Aug 1, 2020)

Something else crossing my mind:
When I searched for bowlingball abrasives long ago, I found out that there are mainly 2 different gritt systems: european (fepa?) and north-american (and micron ofcoarse).

One of the two is coarser then the other, while naming it the same number. There are conversion tables.

Could it be that Naniwa uses the one scale and most brands use the other?


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 1, 2020)

Sharpening stones generally use the JIS standard, at least what's commonly used around here.


----------



## Benuser (Aug 1, 2020)

Kawa said:


> Good to know
> 
> I've read much about the shapton pro 1k being coarser then 1k. Couldn't find much about the 'true grit' of the pro2k, other then one member saying he/she had the feeling the 2k felt about as true 2k.


It starts quite aggressively, but leaves a scratch pattern around JIS3k.


----------



## inferno (Aug 2, 2020)

Kawa said:


> Good to know
> 
> I've read much about the shapton pro 1k being coarser then 1k. Couldn't find much about the 'true grit' of the pro2k, other then one member saying he/she had the feeling the 2k felt about as true 2k.



naniwa or shapton pro? i think my naniwa pro finishes at 3k but my shaptons (the glass too) are 2k start to finish.


----------



## Kawa (Aug 2, 2020)

inferno said:


> naniwa or shapton pro? i think my naniwa pro finishes at 3k *but my shaptons (the glass too) are 2k start to finish*.



Shapton pro 2k...
As i think of it, I think it was you who said the same in some older topic, not sure...


----------



## Kawa (Aug 2, 2020)

Benuser said:


> It starts quite aggressively, but leaves a scratch pattern around JIS3k.



So just out of curiosity, if the shap pro 1k is said to be around 7-800 and their pro 2k is around 3k in your opinion, what would fit in that (huge) gap?
Im not needing it, but their scale seems strange to me.
Does the 1500 really fit in between? On paper the 1500 seems useless when you have the 1k and 2k..


----------



## Benuser (Aug 2, 2020)

Kawa said:


> So just out of curiosity, if the shap pro 1k is said to be around 7-800 and their pro 2k is around 3k in your opinion, what would fit in that (huge) gap?
> Im not needing it, but their scale seems strange to me.
> Does the 1500 really fit in between? On paper the 1500 seems useless when you have the 1k and 2k..


The gap isn't that huge. It was about the Naniwa Pro /Chosera 2k I said, it delivers at the end a JIS3k pattern. But it starts aggressively. The gap is between the end result of the Shapton Pro 1k and the starting grit of the Naniwa Pro 2k. Nothing to worry about. I've made much wider jumps, as 500-3k. If you take the time needed to deburr as much as possible with the first stone, it should be no problem.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 2, 2020)

500->4k jump works too


----------

