# Thinning stone



## Jarrod12345 (May 18, 2022)

Gday everybody.

I am wanting to do some thinning on a couple of knives, one requiring an extreme amount, and a Chosera 400 or Cerax 320 just won’t even touch it.

I have my eyes set on either a nano hone 200 or a DEBADO MD-20 200 grit.

Just wondering if any of you have any ideas, opinions or reviews on these stones?

Thanks!


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## milangravier (May 19, 2022)

Hey, 
I used nano hone and I am using Debado ld 180 grit (normally identic as md-20, just not same format). Nano hone is very nice stone, but quite a expensive stone for price and size. My choice is Debado, it is working very nicely, quite fast, not too hard, not too soft. Be aware that there is some variations on the stones and you can get a little bit harder or softer stone than average. I got one that is hard as glass and some other that was quite soft on one end. I ask Suehiro and they just answer that they are very hard stone to bake. 
I think you will enjoy both stones, but if you plan to grind a lot I would go Debado


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## captaincaed (May 19, 2022)

There's a pink brick 220 that floats around. It's pretty quick to dish, and kills flattening plates, though it does cut quickly. I'm grumpy enough with mine I'm thinking of trying that debado.

Or a vitrified diamond. If you can find one.


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## Cliff (May 19, 2022)

The Debado 180 is great


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## MowgFace (May 19, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> There's a pink brick 220 that floats around. It's pretty quick to dish, and kills flattening plates, though it does cut quickly. I'm grumpy enough with mine I'm thinking of trying that debado.
> 
> Or a vitrified diamond. If you can find one.



I am a 220 Pink Brick User myself, the Gesshin model specifically.

Super thirsty, but I agree cuts very quickly. I have gotten pretty good at using the entire surface of the stone to avoid needing to flatten. Currently reworking a 240 Gesshin Ginga stainless that i got for a steal since the original user absolutely wrecked the knife.


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## Wagnum (May 19, 2022)

I also use the pink brick. Saying that it's a thirsty stone feels like an understatement, water seems to fall through it and perma-soaking doesn't seem to help. I only really used it to thin out a 240 Moritaka and it definitely cuts. The scratches it left came out easy on a Morihei 500. It's alot of stone too so I don't feel so bad about flattening frequently witch is good because it needs it


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## Jarrod12345 (May 19, 2022)

Thankyou everyone for the suggestions. What about the Debado180/200 vs the Shapton kuromaku 220?


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## Cliff (May 19, 2022)

I've never tried the SP-220, but the 120 is a tricky stone. I much prefer the Debado 180. It's almost as fast as my SP-120, has a much finer scratch pattern, and is much easier to work with.


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## labor of love (May 19, 2022)

I imagine that the perfect set up for those low grit pink stones like the gesshin would be a sink bridge over the sink with the faucet dripping directly on the stone. 
I was initially looking at debado 200, didn’t realize there’s a 180grit on the market


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## stringer (May 19, 2022)

labor of love said:


> I imagine that the perfect set up for those low grit pink stones like the gesshin would be a sink bridge over the sink with the faucet dripping directly on the stone.
> I was initially looking at debado 200, didn’t realize there’s a 180grit on the market


Same stone content different size format


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## captaincaed (May 19, 2022)

labor of love said:


> I imagine that the perfect set up for those low grit pink stones like the gesshin would be a sink bridge over the sink with the faucet dripping directly on the stone.
> I was initially looking at debado 200, didn’t realize there’s a 180grit on the market


I've heard of sealing the sides to keep the water in


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## MowgFace (May 20, 2022)

Thirstiness aside it certainly moves metal.

I’ve always wanted to play with one of those shinko/makita horizontal water grinders…


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## kpham12 (May 20, 2022)

Jarrod12345 said:


> Thankyou everyone for the suggestions. What about the Debado180/200 vs the Shapton kuromaku 220?


I’ve gone through a couple Shapton Pro 220s and half of a pink brick doing thinning and repairs. Best value for your money is a pink brick considering how thick it is. Shapton Pro 220 is a little cheaper, cuts a bit faster, dishes a little slower and is splash and go so much less thirsty but it’s also a lot thinner. I’m considering a Debado 180/200 next. Almost twice the price of a pink brick and 2.5 times the price of a SP220, but it sounds like it should last longer and it gets a lot of good reviews.


stringer said:


> Same stone content different size format


Is the 200 just wider?


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## labor of love (May 20, 2022)

Where are you guys purchasing the 180 debado from? I was pretty much ready to pull the trigger on the 200 at Mtc but now I want to compare pricing.


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## Alder26 (May 20, 2022)

Shapton pro 120 is the fastest I have used. Faster than the pink brick but a good margin. The only problem is It is primarily designed for stainless steels and stainless clad knives. It also needs to be conditioned with silicone carbide grit every once in a while. 

If you have access to silicone carbide (can be purchased on amazon) and the knives in question are some form of stainless then it is the answer


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## Feiii (May 20, 2022)

Any sigmas users or shapton glass users? How is thinning with them?


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## MowgFace (May 20, 2022)

MowgFace said:


> Thirstiness aside it certainly moves metal.
> 
> I’ve always wanted to play with one of those shinko/makita horizontal water grinders…



Welp, this thread did it. Ended up grabbing one of these to try out. Who knows, maybe a farmers market sharpening stand is in my future.


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## labor of love (May 20, 2022)

Feiii said:


> Any sigmas users or shapton glass users? How is thinning with them?


I’m on my third sigma power 240 grit. It’s perfect for me. Once you build up enough mud it can hold water for quite sometime. I’m expecting debado to be in a similar ballpark.


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## M1k3 (May 20, 2022)

Feiii said:


> Any sigmas users or shapton glass users? How is thinning with them?


Sigma 240 cuts fast and dishes somewhat. It cuts faster than it dishes, so it works out fine. Not my favorite for sharpening though, only thinning.


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## M1k3 (May 20, 2022)

Glass 500 is my workhorse stone. Works as a fast 1k stone. Also good for getting out more minor chips and dings. Getting setup for higher grits when thinning or polishing.


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## migwal (May 20, 2022)

My pink brick was super thirsty too. But probably a year and a half in, after somewhat unsatisfied persistent use, it suddenly held water way better. It did wear down my aroma 140 quite effectively however, but I don’t find the dishing too bad. Prefer the scratches and feel of the cerax 320 but that thing dishes something crazy.


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## Nemo (May 20, 2022)

It's worth considering sandpaper in this role.


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## Cliff (May 21, 2022)

labor of love said:


> Where are you guys purchasing the 180 debado from? I was pretty much ready to pull the trigger on the 200 at Mtc but now I want to compare pricing.


Amazon


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## Feiii (May 22, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Glass 500 is my workhorse stone. Works as a fast 1k stone. Also good for getting out more minor chips and dings. Getting setup for higher grits when thinning or polishing.





M1k3 said:


> Sigma 240 cuts fast and dishes somewhat. It cuts faster than it dishes, so it works out fine. Not my favorite for sharpening though, only thinning.


It is so weird that I think the 1k sigma is an amazing stone but the feeling you get while on it isn’t that “good”? Purely my subjective feeling. It does everything well and achieves its goal but I would like a different feel while sharpening as it is my hobby/relaxation/almost meditative part of the week.


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## Feiii (May 22, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Glass 500 is my workhorse stone. Works as a fast 1k stone. Also good for getting out more minor chips and dings. Getting setup for higher grits when thinning or polishing.





M1k3 said:


> Sigma 240 cuts fast and dishes somewhat. It cuts faster than it dishes, so it works out fine. Not my favorite for sharpening though, only thinning.


It is so weird that I think the 1k sigma is an amazing stone but the feeling you get while on it isn’t that “good”? Purely my subjective feeling. It does everything well and achieves its goal but I would like a different feel while sharpening as it is my hobby/relaxation/almost meditative part of the week.


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## M1k3 (May 22, 2022)

Feiii said:


> It is so weird that I think the 1k sigma is an amazing stone but the feeling you get while on it isn’t that “good”? Purely my subjective feeling. It does everything well and achieves its goal but I would like a different feel while sharpening as it is my hobby/relaxation/almost meditative part of the week.


The 240 feels almost like a Crystolon stone. Hard to describe other than "sharpening on death".


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## Feiii (May 22, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> The 240 feels almost like a Crystolon stone. Hard to describe other than "sharpening on death".


Not gonna lie sharpening on death makes me tempted to get one haha


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## M1k3 (May 22, 2022)

Feiii said:


> Not gonna lie sharpening on death makes me tempted to get one haha


Then just get the coarse Crystolon stone.


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## Feiii (May 22, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Then just get the coarse Crystolon stone.


Will take a look. Not sure how easy it is to find them here in Europe. 

Thank You


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## Illyria (May 22, 2022)

Nemo said:


> It's worth considering sandpaper in this role.



This. Bonus points if you get a Kasfly to never touch a low grit stone again.


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## M1k3 (May 22, 2022)

Feiii said:


> Will take a look. Not sure how easy it is to find them here in Europe.
> 
> Thank You











Vintage Norton USA JB8 Crystolon Combination Sharpening Oil Stone / Hone | eBay


Hard to find stone. made in USA. I hope they provide all information required. Great Condition.



www.ebay.co.uk


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## Benuser (May 23, 2022)

Feiii said:


> Will take a look. Not sure how easy it is to find them here in Europe.
> 
> Thank You


I had them with the German Amazon.


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## natto (May 23, 2022)

MowgFace said:


> I’ve always wanted to play with one of those shinko/makita horizontal water grinders…


report, please.

I'ld like a shinko too.


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## zizirex (May 23, 2022)

Debado 180/200 would be your go-to. 

Volume-wise, 200 is a better deal, but since it's thinner if you flatten it more often, it finishes earlier than the taller 180.


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## mrmoves92 (May 23, 2022)

I have used the Gesshin 220 pink brick and a Nano Hone 200 as my thinning stones. Both of them worked well and were fast. With the Gesshin 220, I didn’t like how fast it dished, how much mud was produced (that I frequently had to rinse off), and how it would leave some really deep scratches while thinning. With the NH200, it doesn’t have any of these issues. The NH200 is perfect for me, but it is really expensive for how thin it is. I got through most of my NH200 in much less time/sharpening than I got through the Gesshin 220.

I am going to buy a Suehiro Debado MD-20 very soon, and I am also thinking of buying a Suehiro GC-3 180 grit stone as a cheap thinning stone that I can freely use without worrying about using up my coarse stone. Here it is:








Suehiro GC-3 Kongou-to #180 Knife Sharpening Stone


Shop Japanese knives, knife sharpening stones, Japanese tableware, kitchenware, restaurant supplies and equipments, take out containers, sushi and ramen supplies




mtckitchen.com




Does anyone have any experience with this stone or similar stones?


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## tcmx3 (May 24, 2022)

I like kasfly but I have found with really coarse paper actually getting flat bevels is kind of hard. I do most of the metal removal with it though, then shape with Debado 180, which is one of the best stones Ive ever used.


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## natto (May 25, 2022)

tcmx3 said:


> I like kasfly but I have found with really coarse paper actually getting flat bevels is kind of hard.


Same here, but with wet paper on glass. Serious work lifts the rims. Too much water allows the sheet to form a wave in front of the tool. Spray glue helps to keep the sheet flat. But that means cleaning the glue off the glass too.

Kasfly is a nice option. Is the problem this small wave again?


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## Nemo (May 25, 2022)

tcmx3 said:


> I like kasfly but I have found with really coarse paper actually getting flat bevels is kind of hard. I do most of the metal removal with it though, then shape with Debado 180, which is one of the best stones Ive ever used.


I assume you are talking about the relief/ thinning bevels ( e.g.: wide bevels) rather than edge bevels?

At what grit do you find this happens?

I have not noticed issues like this on wide bevels down to p80 grit. Unless, of course, I use the soft silicone backing. In which case I get a convex bevel. But now that you mention it, I'm going to have a close look next time I do a big thinning just to sure I haven't missed anything. I wonder if it is related to the pressure? I notice that if I put a lot of pressure on the Kasfly table it will warp slightly, so maybe it can become a bit like a dished stone in this situation? 

I might have to pick up a debado to give it a burl.


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## tcmx3 (May 27, 2022)

Nemo said:


> I assume you are talking about the relief/ thinning bevels ( e.g.: wide bevels) rather than edge bevels?
> 
> At what grit do you find this happens?
> 
> ...


I use light pressure compared to most folks (I have RSI so I cant really go ham)

and it's really only the sub 100 grit stuff.

it just seems to hit _too_ well. I get perfect looking results then go to a hard stone and it's not quite perfect. but then, something like a debado will fix it.

I really liked diamond plates for thinning until I realized that getting those scratches out could be actually impossible


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## Nemo (May 27, 2022)

tcmx3 said:


> I use light pressure compared to most folks (I have RSI so I cant really go ham)
> 
> and it's really only the sub 100 grit stuff.
> 
> ...


Interesting. If I'm using sub 100 grit sandpaper, I refine my wide bevels on sandpaper progression up to around 3-400, then switch to a semi-coarse stone like cerax 320 or chosera 400.

I wonder whether this irons out the curvature in the same way that your debado 180 does.


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## MowgFace (Jun 7, 2022)

Shinko STD-180e came in

Got the package that comes with the 180 grit wheel with the intent of using mainly for heavy repairs and rapid thinning. Stones aren’t all that great but definitely serve their purpose.

180 I can tell is going to be a muddy/dishy beast but it sure does eat up some steel.

1000 is like the king 1000 (some of the offerings on eBay advertised them as king stones, and I wouldn’t doubt it) in feel and messiness.

While this machine for sure has its drawbacks, for less than $250 USD I couldn’t be happier with the machine.

Pictures with it’s rectangle cousins.


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## tostadas (Jun 7, 2022)

MowgFace said:


> Shinko STD-180e came in
> 
> Got the package that comes with the 180 grit wheel with the intent of using mainly for heavy repairs and rapid thinning. Stones aren’t all that great but definitely serve their purpose.
> 
> ...


Where did you get it from? Looks like fun


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## MowgFace (Jun 7, 2022)

tostadas said:


> Where did you get it from? Looks like fun



From the Bay. So far it has been a ton of fun haha. Definitely has a higher margin of error than coarse stones, but I sure appreciate not having to stand in front of my coarse stone for so long.


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## tostadas (Jun 7, 2022)

MowgFace said:


> From the Bay. So far it has been a ton of fun haha. Definitely has a higher margin of error than coarse stones, but I sure appreciate not having to stand in front of my coarse stone for so long.


Is it loud?


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## MowgFace (Jun 7, 2022)

The machine itself is not all that loud.

The scraping sounds of the 180 can get pretty loud, more so than the 1000.

The water basin gets in the way almost all of the time while thinning and kinda needs to be fiddled with to get the proper angles of longer knives. Soaking the stones helped though.

Ill probably figure out a water jug drip setup like the one at JKI.

The stone also rotates both ways which was a plus and something I didn’t expect.


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## MowgFace (Jun 7, 2022)

Just to report back.

Thinned out a Gesshin Ginga 240 gyuto that i bought used and ABUSED. Probably took what would have taken me at least an hour to an hour and a half and got done in less than 10 minutes. Then took me 7 minutes to remove the scratches with my Gesshin 220.

Not too shabby.


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## Choppin (Jun 7, 2022)

Feiii said:


> Any sigmas users or shapton glass users? How is thinning with them?



I have a 220 Shapton Glass that I used to thin a couple of knives. I really like it, cuts fast and feels nice, even on stainless cladding.

The only downside is that it's a thin stone (like all SGs), so it should wear out kinda quick.


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## Heckel7302 (Jun 7, 2022)

MowgFace said:


> Just to report back.
> 
> Thinned out a Gesshin Ginga 240 gyuto that i bought used and ABUSED. Probably took what would have taken me at least an hour to an hour and a half and got done in less than 10 minutes. Then took me 7 minutes to remove the scratches with my Gesshin 220.
> 
> Not too shabby.


What's the plug like on these things? Do you need an adaptor?


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## MowgFace (Jun 7, 2022)

Heckel7302 said:


> What's the plug like on these things? Do you need an adaptor?



Regular 2 prong US standard. 24-36in cable. No adapter needed for me. Located in California


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## Luftmensch (Jun 8, 2022)

MowgFace said:


> Regular 2 prong US standard. 24-36in cable. No adapter needed for me. Located in California



I had long been looking at these for heavy material removal.... Agreed... for the price I don't see how they could be terrible... particularly if you are willing to fix some quirks. Since I live in Oz, the power conversions pretty much made the idea dead in the water (100V/60Hz to 230V/50Hz). I know I could... faff about with transformers... or potentially swap out the motor... but I couldnt be bothered!!

Glad to see you are happy! 
(and a little envious )


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## natto (Jun 10, 2022)

Luftmensch said:


> Since I live in Oz, the power conversions pretty much made the idea dead in the water (100V/60Hz to 230V/50Hz).


In Europe the sticker says 240V. But no idea where to buy from Oz.


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## Luftmensch (Jun 10, 2022)

natto said:


> In Europe the sticker says 240V. But no idea where to buy from Oz.



Hmmmm!! I hadn't thought about that!!! European voltages are close enough for jazz!! Good point. I'd just need to swap the plug...


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