# Mechanical Keyboards, not just for gamers.



## LucasFur (Feb 23, 2018)

Mouse crapped out at work, decided to buy my own, i didnt want their cheapo replacement. 
While at Best Buy in toronto, i tested some mechanical keyboards out ... OH LA LA. 

Ended up buying myself a Corsair k70 cherry mx red switch. it was so light my Typos went up 50% 
returned it the next day for a corsair k70 mx brown switch. again still high typos because of the lightness of the switch coming off membrane keyboards. 
Returned and got a razer black widow chroma V2 with Razer Green switch (comparable to cherry mx Blues) and i hate to say but im in heaven. 

Wish i could find a keyboard with cherry mx blue switches and with macro keys ( i find them extreeeeeeeeemely handy for coding/ excel/ and autocad) 

Mouse I picked up was a Logitech MX Master 2X and its amazing with a palm grip, side scroll again for autocad, and buttons galore. 

Looking to see others experiences. 
we talk so much around here about knives and how they feel in hand, how the feel cutting, but potentially spend no time in other areas of life making small improvements to make us happy. New Phone, another knife, different car, new computer. Never have i thought about keyboard, but now i did and its amazing. 



Super happy with my new setup, dont know if i should claim it as an expense because its a little excessive. 

Cheers Y'all 
-Lucas


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## DamageInc (Feb 23, 2018)

I've been using black switch mechanical keyboards for years. Will never use anything else. The tactile sensation of a mechanical switch is amazing. I'm on a Ducky Shine One right now.


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## PalmRoyale (Feb 23, 2018)

We have a Ducky Zero with MX blue switches, best keyboard ever. You could get it from the US here: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=263


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## esoo (Feb 23, 2018)

I have the classic at home and work: http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UB40P4A

Nothing like the original buckling springs.


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## S-Line (Feb 23, 2018)

I'm still on my realforce 87U tenkeyless. Topre switches are super sweet to type on. Price dropped significantly. I remember paying close to $350 about 8 years ago.


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## khashy (Feb 23, 2018)

LucasFur said:


> Mouse crapped out at work, decided to buy my own, i didnt want their cheapo replacement.
> While at Best Buy in toronto, i tested some mechanical keyboards out ... OH LA LA.
> 
> Ended up buying myself a Corsair k70 cherry mx red switch. it was so light my Typos went up 50%
> ...



Blue switches absolutely rule, I use blue at home but cant do so at work as it would annoy people around me.... click click click click

Using brown at work and its just not the same


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## PalmRoyale (Feb 23, 2018)

For a mouse we have the Logitech G400 and we have two G400S's stored away in their unopened packaging. Best mouse ever made.


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## Matus (Feb 23, 2018)

I am literally hearing about this stuff for the first time, did not even know it existed. I would like to ask - how loud are these in actual use compared to standard keyboards. I am intrigued. I might be interested to get one for work and stop using the laptop keyboard all the time.


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## HugSeal (Feb 23, 2018)

Matus said:


> I am literally hearing about this stuff for the first time, did not even know it existed. I would like to ask - how loud are these in actual use compared to standard keyboards. I am intrigued. I might be interested to get one for work and stop using the laptop keyboard all the time.



Compared to a rubber dome the Cherry mx switches in general are really loud, and the blues incredibly loud. That is mostly due to people depressing the keys to the bottom when typing even if that is not needed. They actuate a far bit away from the bottom of the stroke. I've put some rubber o-rings beneath the keys on my Filco Majestouch with brown switches and it do make a difference. 


The typing feel compared to rubber domes are night and day though. I also kitted my keyboard out with rainbow PBT-keys, spiffy! (Different keycaps the doesn't get so glossy)



Small commenct regarding buying mouses and keyboards for work by yourself. Make sure that is allowed by the IT department, some places doesn't allow that due to security reasons. That is mostly company espionage risks at rather large companies.


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## PalmRoyale (Feb 23, 2018)

Here are the Cherry MX Blue in action.
[video=youtube;3a4IfFO9KIs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a4IfFO9KIs[/video]

We also have rubber o-rings on the keycaps and it does dampen the sound a bit.


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## esoo (Feb 23, 2018)

khashy said:


> Blue switches absolutely rule, I use blue at home but cant do so at work as it would annoy people around me.... click click click click
> 
> Using brown at work and its just not the same



I've had my buckling spring at work for nearly 10 years now. It annoys people and I don't care.


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## khashy (Feb 23, 2018)

esoo said:


> I've had my buckling spring at work for nearly 10 years now. It annoys people and I don't care.



Ha! I should just say fek it and take it in with me


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## buffhr (Feb 23, 2018)

esoo said:


> I've had my buckling spring at work for nearly 10 years now. It annoys people and I don't care.



heh that sounds like a dream! Been using mechanical for many years, during vacation season (in this country everything almost shuts down during July) I brought my "old" shine 2 with blue switches at work and well before midday the few people in the office where all complaining.

I despise red and browns just feel "gritty" to me so that leaves pretty much only blacks (other then few niche switches) but blacks feel like im sending my fingers to the gym for 8-10hrs just cant do it for extended periods, hence stuck using crappy domed KB .


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## Matus (Feb 23, 2018)

PalmRoyale said:


> Here are the Cherry MX Blue in action.
> [video=youtube;3a4IfFO9KIs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a4IfFO9KIs[/video]
> 
> We also have rubber o-rings on the keycaps and it does dampen the sound a bit.



Thanks. I actually really like the sound  but my coworkers would kill me  It is obvious - I need to get a better position with my own office


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## PalmRoyale (Feb 23, 2018)

My fiancée uses MX Blue at work as well and she also got some complaints from people at the office. Too bad for them she's the owner of the company so the only choice they had was to get used to it :lol2:


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## LucasFur (Feb 23, 2018)

Matus said:


> Thanks. I actually really like the sound  but my coworkers would kill me  It is obvious - I need to get a better position with my own office



its not just the clickyness though. thats what i was somewhat getting at. they just feel better to type on. and i love my macro keys. and the program ability. Perfect example, i input a lot of numbers on my key pad, but with everything going on i often hit num lck. I just go into the program disable that key. there is also a "Game mode" where i can have that key or any key or keys disabled as i please. And in "game mode" i can set a whole new set of macros on the keys. I wanted to have a "+" symbol near my left hand ... Done - I just re-assign the squigly line beside 1 to +. media control shortcuts. conversions i often do. like =10.764* (m2 to Ft2)



khashy said:


> Blue switches absolutely rule, I use blue at home but cant do so at work as it would annoy people around me.... click click click click
> 
> Using brown at work and its just not the same



You use a mechanical keyboard also?!?! ... KH-ashy - fill me in what else you got going on. 



S-Line said:


> I'm still on my realforce 87U tenkeyless. Topre switches are super sweet to type on. Price dropped significantly. I remember paying close to $350 about 8 years ago.



wow those are really pricy, still. looking on amazon its 350ish cad. I guess the Topre switches are extra amazing? ... want to fill me in? 



PalmRoyale said:


> My fiancée uses MX Blue at work as well and she also got some complaints from people at the office. Too bad for them she's the owner of the company so the only choice they had was to get used to it :lol2:



wow CEO of the company and multi level jujitsu woman. Daym. Not going to lie though, I hate your avatar. 



-------------------------- i guess im the only kid with a razzeerrrrrr rgb keyboard.


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## PalmRoyale (Feb 23, 2018)

LucasFur said:


> wow CEO of the company



With CEO I think of a large corporation. She has a small payrolling company.


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## ewebb10 (Feb 23, 2018)

Just out of curiosity how old are yall?


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## PalmRoyale (Feb 23, 2018)

My fiancée and I? She's 37 and I'm 41.


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## LucasFur (Feb 23, 2018)

ewebb10 said:


> Just out of curiosity how old are yall?



Yea, Thats a different thread webb10. :justkidding: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/26155-How-old-are-you-guys 

Im 26, Wife is 25, She uses the Mr. Itou R2 210 sugilite handle. But doesnt care about knives, razors, stones, or .... keyboards.


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## ewebb10 (Feb 23, 2018)

Not a new thread, I was just curious if it was nostalgia or they were something new and awesome.


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## ewebb10 (Feb 23, 2018)

Im like Matus Im new to this.


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## LucasFur (Feb 23, 2018)

Gotcha. 
Head over to your local best buy. Give them a go. If your just a casual keyboard user might not be a good fit. 
but there is something now that im getting more use to it, not having to bottom out the keys. Just the Feels, a lot of FEELS


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## Xenif (Feb 23, 2018)

Why do I feel like this thread will lead to some sort of key thining and arguments on which keyboard is considered a wide bevel


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## Talim (Feb 23, 2018)

My current daily driver is a kinesis freestyle edge. I use it mainly for FPS gaming and it's awesome. For FPS, I usually don't use the other half of the board so this allows me to move my mouse hand closer. Also check out massdrop if you're interested in other layouts and key caps or switches. I really wanted to try out the ortholinear ones like the planck next time but I don't do as much typing nowadays.


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## esoo (Feb 23, 2018)

khashy said:


> Ha! I should just say fek it and take it in with me





buffhr said:


> heh that sounds like a dream! Been using mechanical for many years, during vacation season (in this country everything almost shuts down during July) I brought my "old" shine 2 with blue switches at work and well before midday the few people in the office where all complaining.



The people in my office complained. And I just kept using my keyboard. And eventually they give up on complaining. Then I started at a new job and the process started again. After 3.5 years at this job, they've given up again.


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## Paraffin (Feb 23, 2018)

I grew up on the old IBM mechanical keyboard, using a Razer Black Widow now. I don't remember what color type the switches are, I bought it a few years ago, and it just works. Can't ever go back to cheap membrane keys.


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## Marek07 (Feb 23, 2018)

Like @Paraffin I had several old IBM mechanicals but they drove others crazy. I've now settled on a Logitech Performance MX mouse with their K800 keyboard. In practice, I often just use the keyboard on my 17" Alienware but the mouse is always there - it rocks. Having used illuminated keyboards for many years, I can't seem to get comfortable with any that aren't.


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## panda (Feb 24, 2018)

i like the feedback mechanical ones give, but cant stand the clicky noise. best mouse i have yet to find so far has been logitech mx anywhere
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0082D5660/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 upon finding the link, i realize there is an updated version now. i might try that when i eventually break this one


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## DamageInc (Feb 24, 2018)

By far the best mouse I've ever used is the Zowie FK1. The left and right click switches are perfect and the optical sensor is a so precise and reactive it's a dream to use.


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## rogue108 (Feb 26, 2018)

panda said:


> i like the feedback mechanical ones give, but cant stand the clicky noise. best mouse i have yet to find so far has been logitech mx anywhere
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0082D5660/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 upon finding the link, i realize there is an updated version now. i might try that when i eventually break this one



I love the Logitech Mobile MX mouse, especially for work. I own around 5 of them just in case they get discontinued. I prefer the original ones because I don't need the bluetooth, multiple computer pairing setup, and can find them on sale from time to time at $24.99. The original MX carry a 3 year warranty and under heavy use the switches usually under the left mouse button give up after 1.5 years, so I warranty it and get another one. It's a known issue and I believe the newer MX's have been downgraded to 1 year warranty for this reason.


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## LucasFur (Feb 26, 2018)

rogue108 said:


> I love the Logitech Mobile MX mouse, especially for work. I own around 5 of them just in case they get discontinued. I prefer the original ones because I don't need the bluetooth, multiple computer pairing setup, and can find them on sale from time to time at $24.99. The original MX carry a 3 year warranty and under heavy use the switches usually under the left mouse button give up after 1.5 years, so I warranty it and get another one. It's a known issue and I believe the newer MX's have been downgraded to 1 year warranty for this reason.



Really? thats interesting. 
Yea looking on the logitech website -- Master mx has a 1 year warranty. the performance Mx and my old mouse (M500) have 3 year warranty. 
I had the optical sensor stop working on mine. ... for the $100cad every few years isnt the worst thing in the world. Im glad it would be the mouse button rather than the battery that cant hold a charge.


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## StonedEdge (Feb 26, 2018)

You guys are strange


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## DamageInc (Feb 26, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> You guys are strange



If one can enjoy the tactile feel of a nicely ground knife slicing through veggies, why not enjoy the tactile feel of a mechanical keyboard switch? Once you try it, you can never go back to cheapo rubber dome.


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## WildBoar (Feb 26, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> You guys are strange


Next thing you know they will say they still use kitchen knives made out of steel, and they sharpen the dang things on old rocks. Bunch of friggin' neanderthals here! (I'll bet some still cook over fire, too!)


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## StonedEdge (Feb 26, 2018)

DamageInc said:


> If one can enjoy the tactile feel of a nicely ground knife slicing through veggies, why not enjoy the tactile feel of a mechanical keyboard switch? Once you try it, you can never go back to cheapo rubber dome.


As someone who works on a crappy Dell desktop in the office, but runs a mac at home, I imagine myself beating the life out of that thing Office Space style (Geto Boyz, Louisville slugger and all) every day of the week.

Keyboard snobism and nerdiness overload aside, I think y'all might be onto something here...


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## StonedEdge (Feb 26, 2018)

DamageInc said:


> Once you try it, you can never go back to cheapo rubber dome.



Exactly what I am thinking, getting a "real" keyboard for work may ruin my typing experience forever elsewhere. Kind of like going over to my parents' place and having to use their dull 20year old Wustofs


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## StonedEdge (Feb 26, 2018)

WildBoar said:


> Next thing you know they will say they still use kitchen knives made out of steel, and they sharpen the dang things on old rocks. Bunch of friggin' neanderthals here! (I'll bet some still cook over fire, too!)


Ha! Imagine being such an uncultured peasant....live flame for cooking? That's soooo 1800s. they have apps for that now no doubt


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## Seth (Feb 26, 2018)

Roseville Browns. I switch back and forth depending on computer but definitely like these. Too many complaints at work and still getting use to the travel on these keys.


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## DamageInc (Feb 26, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> Exactly what I am thinking, getting a "real" keyboard for work may ruin my typing experience forever elsewhere. Kind of like going over to my parents' place and having to use their dull 20year old Wustofs



Get a murse and carry a quality tenkeyless around everywhere. Be real elitist about it too.


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## StonedEdge (Feb 26, 2018)

DamageInc said:


> Get a murse and carry a quality tenkeyless around everywhere. Be real elitist about it too.


I like your style!


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## LucasFur (Feb 26, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> Exactly what I am thinking, getting a "real" keyboard for work may ruin my typing experience forever elsewhere. Kind of like going over to my parents' place and having to use their dull 20year old Wustofs



Exactly, every time you use a different keyboard you'll say yuk. 
SOO question stands, stay in the same frame as the parents 20 year old never sharpened knives. or go to the dark side. 




DamageInc said:


> Get a murse and carry a quality tenkeyless around everywhere. Be real elitist about it too.


Get a expensive one then dont forget to tell people how much it costs, wait for the shock, explain how you got it for way cheaper, and that it was a deal. 

HAHAHA "be real elitist about it too" ... made my day.


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## StonedEdge (Feb 26, 2018)

LucasFur said:


> Exactly, every time you use a different keyboard you'll say yuk.
> 
> HAHAHA "be real elitist about it too" ... made my day.



I sense the dark side of the force pulling me.....I don't want to re live those 20yr old Wusties every time I go to work.

Hahaha the bit about being elitist is so spot on....gotta take ownership of one's snobism! Or else what's the point of keeping the price tags on stuff ?


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## StonedEdge (Feb 26, 2018)

But honestly thank you everyone as this thread and the resulting Google searches has me inspired to make my work station less of an infernal unproductive mess (hardware aside..just imagine using a french keyboard when your brain functions in English)


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## erickso1 (Feb 26, 2018)

I had one of the Dell mechanical keyboards mapped for a Bloomberg terminal for a while. Bloomberg sent out new keyboards so I don't have a choice now. A little bit of me died that day.


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## LucasFur (Feb 26, 2018)

For those guys that put custom handles on every knife they have. Keyboards have an options for you too! Custom Keycaps! 

https://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-patriot-keycap-set/


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## DamageInc (Feb 26, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> But honestly thank you everyone as this thread and the resulting Google searches has me inspired to make my work station less of an infernal unproductive mess (hardware aside..just imagine using a french keyboard when your brain functions in English)



French keyboards were the bane of my existence when I was on exchange in Paris. What a stupid keyboard layout that is. Had to take a purchasing management exam on such a keyboard and my typing speed was reduced to half.

Should have brought my black switch keyboard and scoffed at the exam supervisors while wearing a turtleneck under a blazer.


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## DamageInc (Feb 26, 2018)

LucasFur said:


> For those guys that put custom handles on every knife they have. Keyboards have an options for you too! Custom Keycaps!
> 
> https://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-patriot-keycap-set/



Good god that is beyond tacky. And I'm a tasteless slob.


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## StonedEdge (Feb 26, 2018)

Happy to see I'm not the only one who hates those things...I can't even find the stupid @ symbol so I memorized almost 3 dozen keyboard shortcut keys for assorted french accents and regularly used symbols and whatnot 
Just thinking about it makes my blood boil.


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## harlock0083 (Feb 26, 2018)

My mechanical keyboard is way too loud for work, unfortunately.


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## _PixelNinja (Feb 26, 2018)

Matus said:


> I am literally hearing about this stuff for the first time, did not even know it existed. I would like to ask - how loud are these in actual use compared to standard keyboards. I am intrigued. I might be interested to get one for work and stop using the laptop keyboard all the time.


A mechanical keyboard being the sum of its parts, the sound is largely dependent on the components and the build quality. Sadly, most production keyboards are not very good is this regard, especially with the keyboards sold these days, as appealing to the gamer crowd takes priority over quality. 

If we are talking about Cherry MX switches, there is one brand I would highly recommend  Leopold (Korea). When it comes to production boards, their attention to detail is second to none (quality of components and electronics, tuned stabilizers, sound dampening mat, double-shot thick 1.5mm PBT on PBT keycaps) which provides an excellent out of the box typing experience (sound and feel). They have started offering their keyboards with Cherry MX Silent switches.

If you wish to learn more, you can visit Geekhack and Deskthority; they are to keyboards what KitchenKnifeForums is to knives. Deskthority also has a very informative Wiki. Careful though, as it is a hobby than can become one hell of a rabbit hole, especially once you get into custom keyboards...


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## Chef Doom (Feb 26, 2018)

This is the thread I have been looking for. I purchased a few new Trackball Mice for home & office. All the while browsing around for mechanical keyboards, yet I was not sure as which to try. I feel I have been put in the right direction.


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## zetieum (Feb 27, 2018)

In term of mouse, for me nothing comapre to a vertical mouse. I started with those because I am left-handed and they provided right-handed asymetrical mouse at work. So I bought my self a lefty vertical mouse. There is no way back. It is so so more natural hand position.


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## DamageInc (Feb 27, 2018)

harlock0083 said:


> My mechanical keyboard is way too loud for work, unfortunately.



Have you tried installing sound dampening o-rings? There are demos on youtube of the effects.


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## _PixelNinja (Feb 27, 2018)

DamageInc said:


> Have you tried installing sound dampening o-rings? There are demos on youtube of the effects.


O-Rings drastically change the travel and feel of the keyboard while only moderately dampening the sound as they only effect the down stroke. GMK's QMX-Clips are far and by large more efficient for sound reduction because they dampen both the down and up stroke while only marginally affecting the feel and travel of the keys.


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## DamageInc (Feb 27, 2018)

I've never used either, so what do I know.

Point is, there are ways to dampen the sound if you still want to use one for work.


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## harlock0083 (Feb 27, 2018)

DamageInc said:


> Have you tried installing sound dampening o-rings? There are demos on youtube of the effects.



I'll have to check that out. That or look for a quieter keyboard, but with better tactile feel.


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## LucasFur (Feb 27, 2018)

All I know is that i have never enjoyed typing now. And now im excited to get into work to type. and im sad to leave because it means no more typing. 
I dont understand how the O-rings make it more quiet. The click happens with the spring. and the bottoming out happens inside the switch. How does the O-Ring help dampen the sound. 

I was searching around a little. Kailh now has micro switches. The PG1232 with half the travel distance. Similar to the Cherry ML keys. 
I want low profile switches now. thats the one thing i find annoying is the 4mm of travel distance on this keyboard. Somewhat use to my mid-height keys on my old dell keyboard ( or slim, on my laptops / mac)


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## _PixelNinja (Feb 27, 2018)

LucasFur said:


> All I know is that i have never enjoyed typing now. And now im excited to get into work to type. and im sad to leave because it means no more typing.
> I dont understand how the O-rings make it more quiet. The click happens with the spring. and the bottoming out happens inside the switch. How does the O-Ring help dampen the sound.
> 
> I was searching around a little. Kailh now has micro switches. The PG1232 with half the travel distance. Similar to the Cherry ML keys.
> I want low profile switches now. thats the one thing i find annoying is the 4mm of travel distance on this keyboard. Somewhat use to my mid-height keys on my old dell keyboard ( or slim, on my laptops / mac)


O-Rings or any other silencing method will not silence clicky switches; which makes no sense to silence anyway since the the purpose of those is to have an audio feedback. 

The issue with the Kailh Choc switches is that they have a proprietary stem and more or less nobody makes keycaps for them. The few that are available are low quality painted ABS caps in a uniform profile. Cherry has unveiled at CES 2018 their Cherry MX LP switches which work within the MX ecosystem. Cooler Master, Datacomp, Ducky and Vortex have already announced upcoming keyboards that will use these switches. More will follow soon. The Cherry MX LP will have more chances of being adopted by the mainstream than the Kailh Chocs.


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## Pisau (Aug 24, 2021)

Pardon the necro, but this thread needs moar pics...


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## rstcso (Aug 24, 2021)

I keep my new knives in the same place for a couple of days, then have to quit staring at them and get back to work (WFH).

FWIW, I've been using mechanical keyboards for a long time and do to this day.


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## Jovidah (Aug 24, 2021)

I actually think they're somewhat overrated. The reason people find them so much better IMO is that most people are used to the bargain basement junk rubberdomes that are often found in workplaces and that come with prebuilt computers. But if you step up to a 'better' rubberdome like a Logitech K120 (still a bargain) IMO the difference isn't really all that huge. My words per minute was pretty much the same, and I actually got more typos because the switches are so sensitive. Feels a little bit nicer maybe but I don't think it changes usage all that much. Couldn't care less for all the christmas lights that come with keyboards these days.
For mice I'm in the unlucky situation that ergonomically I do really well on a Logitech G403 (and lately, the wireless variant, G703), even though they keep dying on me - luckily usually within the warranty period. Tried some alternatives and most gave me cramps.

Regarding the thread title... I'd say mechanical keyboards are actually for anyone _but_ gamers. They don't make one iota of difference in gaming. Anyone who claims different is either paid to say so, fooling themselves, or having cognitive dissonance over their purchase.


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## esoo (Aug 24, 2021)

There is only two types of keyboards I've ever really liked, and interestingly enough they are both IBM designs - the IBM Thinkpad Laptop keyboards and Buckling spring.








Any rubber dome I've felt is a waste of time.


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## tcmx3 (Aug 24, 2021)

esoo said:


> There is only two types of keyboards I've ever really liked, and interestingly enough they are both IBM designs - the IBM Thinkpad Laptop keyboards and Buckling spring.
> 
> 
> View attachment 139176
> ...



Buckling Springs are definitely a step above the usual Cherry switch type thing, but Topres are IMO at least as good. 



Jovidah said:


> I actually think they're somewhat overrated. The reason people find them so much better IMO is that most people are used to the bargain basement junk rubberdomes that are often found in workplaces and that come with prebuilt computers. But if you step up to a 'better' rubberdome like a Logitech K120 (still a bargain) IMO the difference isn't really all that huge. My words per minute was pretty much the same, and I actually got more typos because the switches are so sensitive. Feels a little bit nicer maybe but I don't think it changes usage all that much. Couldn't care less for all the christmas lights that come with keyboards these days.
> For mice I'm in the unlucky situation that ergonomically I do really well on a Logitech G403 (and lately, the wireless variant, G703), even though they keep dying on me - luckily usually within the warranty period. Tried some alternatives and most gave me cramps.
> 
> Regarding the thread title... I'd say mechanical keyboards are actually for anyone _but_ gamers. They don't make one iota of difference in gaming. Anyone who claims different is either paid to say so, fooling themselves, or having cognitive dissonance over their purchase.



the difference the keyboard makes in gaming is having a board that suits you for the game you are playing and one that is pretty durable since youre going to be smashing on it endlessly. day in day out having something nice makes a big practical difference for stuff like starcraft IME. as far as slower games go then it's more about the durability of the switches. when I was playing CS in leagues I would destroy a rubber dome keyboard in a matter of months, but my first RK-9000, one of the hardwired early ones, lasted close to 4 years. maybe the higher end rubber domes are more durable these days but a decade ago finding a good one was more or less impossible. 

these days that sort of thing not being my jam anymore means that my tiny topre keyboards are more about having something I like, nothing more. but then we all know that most of our really high end knives dont actually cut better than your average Wakui, M. Hinoura, or Yoshikane that we spent 250 dollars on, too.


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## esoo (Aug 24, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> Buckling Springs are definitely a step above the usual Cherry switch type thing, but Topres are IMO at least as good.



I've tried typing on Cherry keyboards and never been impressed with the feedback. Never tried Topres. Given the price on the Unicomps, I've never felt the need to try something for more money. I wouldn't mind something quieter, but I love the feedback.


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## Jovidah (Aug 24, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> the difference the keyboard makes in gaming is having a board that suits you for the game you are playing and one that is pretty durable since youre going to be smashing on it endlessly. day in day out having something nice makes a big practical difference for stuff like starcraft IME. as far as slower games go then it's more about the durability of the switches. when I was playing CS in leagues I would destroy a rubber dome keyboard in a matter of months, but my first RK-9000, one of the hardwired early ones, lasted close to 4 years. maybe the higher end rubber domes are more durable these days but a decade ago finding a good one was more or less impossible.
> 
> these days that sort of thing not being my jam anymore means that my tiny topre keyboards are more about having something I like, nothing more. but then we all know that most of our really high end knives dont actually cut better than your average Wakui, M. Hinoura, or Yoshikane that we spent 250 dollars on, too.


Sorry but I'm still not seeing the added benefit. Admittedly I was never too big on (competitive) RTS so I can't judge the utility there, but they are often marketted for FPS games where I just didn't perceive any benefit. Even when I played competitive CS when I was young I don't recall ever destroying a keyboard by wearing out the switches before its eventual death to fluid spills. And 'durability' arguments sound rather hollow to me when the mechanical keyboards are at least 5 times the price of 'decent' rubberdomes. 
Don't get me wrong, I can see why you'd want something that's just 'nice', pretty, or whatever... I just don't think there's any competitive advantage; for gamers it's pretty much the last thing I'd recommend them to spend their money on. Compare that to stuff like high refresh rate monitors and better mouse sensors where there really is a giant difference even just comparing midrange stuff to the cheap garbage.


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## tcmx3 (Aug 24, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> Sorry but I'm still not seeing the added benefit. Admittedly I was never too big on (competitive) RTS so I can't judge the utility there, but they are often marketted for FPS games where I just didn't perceive any benefit. Even when I played competitive CS when I was young I don't recall ever destroying a keyboard by wearing out the switches before its eventual death to fluid spills. And 'durability' arguments sound rather hollow to me when the mechanical keyboards are at least 5 times the price of 'decent' rubberdomes.
> Don't get me wrong, I can see why you'd want something that's just 'nice', pretty, or whatever... I just don't think there's any competitive advantage; for gamers it's pretty much the last thing I'd recommend them to spend their money on. Compare that to stuff like high refresh rate monitors and better mouse sensors where there really is a giant difference even just comparing midrange stuff to the cheap garbage.



if a keyboard lasts 5x as long and costs 5x as much, then to me it's 100% worth it. also to be honest Im shocked to hear that you could play competitive CS for any length of time and not blow up your average rubber dome keyboard. the percentage of people playing above open sections who could afford mechanical keyboards using rubber dome keyboards was vanishingly small to my recollection. 

also I mean this came up in the pan thread but there's more to an object than just its on paper performance. when you are competing especially you want to minimize anything that gets in your way. having a nice keyboard that you feel is well suited matters 100x more than whether the n-key rollover is slightly better or it registers key strokes 1ms faster or whatever.

yeah I mean a keyboard is not the first thing to spend money on; frankly for anyone playing an FPS honestly a good pair of headphones matters even more than the monitor, and both outrank a keyboard. but to say they dont make a difference when mechanical keyboards are ascendant in that world doesnt seem true to me empirically.

to me the keyboard is one of those soft improvements like being in better physical shape. it's difficult to quantify its impact but if you want to seriously compete you do all the QOL stuff anyway. eat well, sleep well, get some exercise, buy the right equipment.


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## captaincaed (Aug 24, 2021)

For me the benefit was ergonomics and custom key settings. For programming, a columnar key layout is more predictable to find the key you need without the guess work from staggered keys. Having secondary layers under the main letter layer also helps with media controls, programming macros, number pad, etc. Plus, there are tons of layouts for ergonomic hand position. I went with an out of the box option and hand pain was reduced compared to a standard keyboard.


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## Jovidah (Aug 24, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> if a keyboard lasts 5x as long and costs 5x as much, then to me it's 100% worth it. also to be honest Im shocked to hear that you could play competitive CS for any length of time and not blow up your average rubber dome keyboard. the percentage of people playing above open sections who could afford mechanical keyboards using rubber dome keyboards was vanishingly small to my recollection.
> 
> also I mean this came up in the pan thread but there's more to an object than just its on paper performance. when you are competing especially you want to minimize anything that gets in your way. having a nice keyboard that you feel is well suited matters 100x more than whether the n-key rollover is slightly better or it registers key strokes 1ms faster or whatever.
> 
> ...


Given that rubberdomes usually lasted at least several years for me, for the 'durability' argument to break even the mechanical keyboard would have to last at least 15 years. I highly doubt it'll take that long for me to fry it by spilling fluids on it... but we shall see. 
I don't know why it's so weird to not bust your keyboard. It's not like FPS usage is all that hard on the keyboard. Admittedly I never used the bargain basement / prebuilt computer level of garbage keyboards (usually went with logitechs), and what might be a bigger factor was that when I played competitively was quite a while ago (my CS days were beta 3 - 1.6, when clanbase was still the center of the universe ). Back then _everything_ seemed to last longer. Mice would last me a lot longer back then too. When I went to university and became a filthy casual I think I had a Logitech MX518 that lasted me something like 7 years before it died. These days - even though usage is roughly similar - the mice tend to have either a broken scroll wheel or a broken button switch within 2 years (within the warranty period even!). Even when I gamed several times as much per day during my youth my mice (MS Intellimouse Optical / Explorer) would last longer than they do now...

I get that you want to at least have the placebo of not holding you back, but IMO that just argument can be just as much used against mechanical keyboards for gaming : the amount of accidental presses has skyrocketed since I went to mechs and it never went back to the old level. While I prefer the way they type, I think if I was gaming competitively I'd seriously consider going back to K120s for this reason alone. I think part of the problem for me is that the mechs are taller. Who knows, maybe it becomes less of a problem for me with the low-profile switches but I haven't tried those yet.

The fact that mechanical keyboards are on the rise has I think more to do with the fact that there's simply a ton of money to be made, and they have the coolfactor. It's not like RGB adds anything competitively but that has seen a meteoric rise as well. 
If you feel it helps.. sure do it; a placebo effect is still an effect. I just think it's really really overstated, at least for FPS games. The higher rate of accidental keypresses alone for me nullified any advantage gained from better switches.


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## tcmx3 (Aug 24, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> Given that rubberdomes usually lasted at least several years for me, for the 'durability' argument to break even the mechanical keyboard would have to last at least 15 years. I highly doubt it'll take that long for me to fry it by spilling fluids on it... but we shall see.
> I don't know why it's so weird to not bust your keyboard. It's not like FPS usage is all that hard on the keyboard. Admittedly I never used the bargain basement / prebuilt computer level of garbage keyboards (usually went with logitechs), and what might be a bigger factor was that when I played competitively was quite a while ago (my CS days were beta 3 - 1.6, when clanbase was still the center of the universe ). Back then _everything_ seemed to last longer. Mice would last me a lot longer back then too. When I went to university and became a filthy casual I think I had a Logitech MX518 that lasted me something like 7 years before it died. These days - even though usage is roughly similar - the mice tend to have either a broken scroll wheel or a broken button switch within 2 years (within the warranty period even!). Even when I gamed several times as much per day during my youth my mice (MS Intellimouse Optical / Explorer) would last longer than they do now...
> 
> I get that you want to at least have the placebo of not holding you back, but IMO that just argument can be just as much used against mechanical keyboards for gaming : the amount of accidental presses has skyrocketed since I went to mechs and it never went back to the old level. While I prefer the way they type, I think if I was gaming competitively I'd seriously consider going back to K120s for this reason alone. I think part of the problem for me is that the mechs are taller. Who knows, maybe it becomes less of a problem for me with the low-profile switches but I haven't tried those yet.
> ...



I dont think youre using placebo correctly. that stuff I mentioned is serious study in sports psychology and all pros in all monied competitive events are now focusing on this stuff. having a comfortable keyboard is placebo? that's like saying your seating position in your car is placebo. that's not a placebo, that's a matter of comfort.

you also are highlighting exactly the point though. "my accidental presses went up and never went back down" well ok you have the wrong keyboard. in mechanicals, compared to rubber domes, you can select the switch based on the exact weighting and behavior you want (clicky, non clicky, weight, noise, etc.) and those are consistent over time. furthermore, because the interface is consistent, you can get whatever caps you want, plus you can choose a board. this is all considerably more modular than rubber dome stuff. if you have heavy clicky switches you will not have accidental activations, I can assure you of that. in fact you might have the opposite issue.

as far as the RGB thing goes, I mean none of my boards have lights, despite being very expensive. it turns out that there's a world way beyond logitech/razer stuff and most of the high end stuff doesnt have RGB lights.

to me it seems like you have a limited experience with mechanicals in this context and that's fine but it is showing when you make general statements that are counter to the whole point of them. IMO.


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## ModRQC (Aug 24, 2021)

Before there were knives, I was all in with mech keyboards and a lot of stuff. Tried a lot. I've held onto a Roccat Vulcan (or whatever was the name scheme) because it's sexy - or because I wasn't in so much with computer crowd anymore when I got tired of it and never bothered trying to sell it. It's a nice toy.

But my main (only) driver nowadays is Ducky One 2. Pretty cheaply priced for the combined quality of PBS caps and thick dampening ABS plastic body. I think I'd say my main quibble with most mechs is precisely the floating design mounted on a metal plate and using cheap ABS keycaps. It even tends to make the switches feel cheap, the feedback is hollowed and often times wobbly, and the extra noise generated is ridiculous. Vulcan is sexy because of this design, and their implementation of a in-house fully lightened raised cap switch is really good, if wobbly too... 

But the Ducky is the only one I tried that was highly satisfying, highly dampened, and highly comfortable. Encased switches also means it's a rather flat and compact design. Double stand adjustment is nice. Detachable USB-C is nice. You wouldn't believe the weight, seeing it's 100% plastic keyboard, until picking it up. Not a toy. Best typing ever. Gaming I don't care much nowadays. It worked fine IIRC. Liked it better than the Vulcan in the end. The latter is really mostly just a showpiece.


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## jaeysehn (Aug 24, 2021)

Pisau said:


> Pardon the necro, but this thread needs moar pics...
> 
> View attachment 139175







took this picture in 2019 and people called me a weirdo.


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## Jovidah (Aug 24, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> I dont think youre using placebo correctly. that stuff I mentioned is serious study in sports psychology and all pros in all monied competitive events are now focusing on this stuff. having a comfortable keyboard is placebo? that's like saying your seating position in your car is placebo. that's not a placebo, that's a matter of comfort.
> 
> you also are highlighting exactly the point though. "my accidental presses went up and never went back down" well ok you have the wrong keyboard. in mechanicals, compared to rubber domes, you can select the switch based on the exact weighting and behavior you want (clicky, non clicky, weight, noise, etc.) and those are consistent over time. furthermore, because the interface is consistent, you can get whatever caps you want, plus you can choose a board. this is all considerably more modular than rubber dome stuff. if you have heavy clicky switches you will not have accidental activations, I can assure you of that. in fact you might have the opposite issue.
> 
> ...


The thing is that I can totally get behind all those other things you mentioned leading to improved performance. I struggle to get behind that when it comes to mechanical switches (for gaming). Comfort for gaming IMO has more to do with keyboard size and placement than what switches are used. And ironically one of the weak points of mechanicals here is that most of them tend to be taller (leading to people leading arm rests to solve this problem). 

The example of RGB was to point out that the fact that something becomes ubiquitous doesn't necessarily mean it adds anything for your individual performance. On keyboards I actually don't mind it that much as long as you can turn it the hell down and turn it into something more static; then it actually has some value, but whether it has or hasn't got RGB doesn't really change anything about how the switches function. 

When it comes to 'having limited experience'... sure I didn't try 3 dozen, but the parts I pointed out are a feature of the sheer majority of mechanical switches on the market; they're taller and most will have lower activation weights Especially the latter is usually explicitly mentioned as being an advantage in FPS games, and frankly it's a claim I really struggle to get behind. 
The one exception on the height issue are the more recent low-profile switches, which makes those at least look interesting enough that I'll try them eventually, as that might solve the issue.

Most of your arguments pertain more to 'good keyboards' than to mechanical switches. But frankly as long as it's not complete garbage / physically uncomfortable / adding input lag, how much keyboard do you really need for the usual WASD spam? IMO requirements for typing / actual work are far higher.


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## tcmx3 (Aug 24, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> The thing is that I can totally get behind all those other things you mentioned leading to improved performance. I struggle to get behind that when it comes to mechanical switches (for gaming). Comfort for gaming IMO has more to do with keyboard size and placement than what switches are used. And ironically one of the weak points of mechanicals here is that most of them tend to be taller (leading to people leading arm rests to solve this problem).
> 
> The example of RGB was to point out that the fact that something becomes ubiquitous doesn't necessarily mean it adds anything for your individual performance. On keyboards I actually don't mind it that much as long as you can turn it the hell down and turn it into something more static; then it actually has some value, but whether it has or hasn't got RGB doesn't really change anything about how the switches function.
> 
> ...



ok I think we've landed reasonably close about the limitations but I think we both agree wrt competing having the right keyboard for you matters more than having a specific keyboard.

as you shop do know there are a LOT of different activation weights including some really heavy ones like the 65g cherry clears, though actually I find the very dampened feel of 45g topres to be really nice and again better than purely "mechanical" switches and to certainly feel weighty for their activation force.

I do think we're probably going to always diverge on durability because you had your dome keyboards work out for you and I very much did not so I despise them with a passion, yes even more expensive logitech ones. to date my favorite board was my first hardwired RK-9000 it was an absolute tank, but I do like the Leopold FC660C I use now a lot.


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## Jovidah (Aug 24, 2021)

Yeah I think like with all peripherals the most important thing is 'getting what works for you'. Especially with mice this comes into play as the shapes differ more, and what works for one person's hand doesn't necessarily work for others. My best negative example was trying the Razer Viper Ultimate a while ago, and while I really wanted to like that mouse (laser switches look very attractive when I had the switches die on me pretty much every other year with the Omron crap), it just didn't work for me. Simply too small for my mitts and I'd get massive cramp in my wrist within half an hour. 

I think with rubberdomes there's... at least some quality difference. Ever since I moved out my parents tend to just buy whatever bargain basement crap is cheapest and those things really do suck ass - and probably would die fast too. Same problem with all the DELL and other crap I've used at universities and such; I always hated those with a passion. But the 'slightly better ones' (like Logitech K120, and whatever Logitech / Microsoft stuff we had in the old days) always worked fairly well for me. Like I said; they'd die of fluid spills before durability became a thing, but that would still be at least 2-3 years usually.

For me the height is really the biggest 'negative' on mechanicals, and if I'm going to invest more it's probably going to be one of the low-profile variants. Call me a weirdo but when playing I actually always preferred the keys and keyboard to be as low as possible... I'd even tuck in the legs. It's probably because that'd basically put your whole wrist on the desk.

The funny thing is I actually grew up on mechanical keyboard on my first PC, but that was when I was a young kid who only used the arrow keys to play simple games. I remember back then most normies considered the first rubberdomes an improvement simply because they were less noisy and noticably lighter.


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## ModRQC (Aug 24, 2021)

Your typical rubberdome keyboard of quality is quite silent in activation but the keys are still mushy leading to overcompensation. If you can't recognize or don't appreciate the feedback of a mech over it, in my mind your probably mostly tried the "gamer" red or black switches which I hate. With the Ducky Brown each of my activation is noisier than on your rubberdome, but believe me the whole experience is much more quieter than what I can do on quality rubberdome. I don't exactly claim being faster in a 60 seconds typing test because I've used rubberdomes all my life and still do, but day long use I am. Mech switches demand muscle memory just like sharpening knives. At one point you barely activate and already move on to the next. You need to try Brown or Blue switches - noisier but they're my favorites, especially brown, since with mastering all you hear out of a quality keyboard is the click and some light bottoming out or none at all. You could buy either encased design or low profile switches. You can also buy dampeners for the type of switches without a bump since you're likely to bottom out a lot. Which you always do anyhow if you're typing any kind of fast on rubberdomes.

I repeat, worse enemy of most mechanical switches is a metal mounting plate, especially in floating design. I guess floating design on dampened mounting material I'd already appreciate more, but encased is best for keyboard profile and a quieter experience. Air grade - or military grade - aluminum they mostly claim, but to me these materials are inferior when comes the time to assemble a sober keyboard that can be used at night with people sleeping around. And the floating design is generally poorer to me except for maintenance.

Ah yes, and I also repeat that metal mounting plates kill half of the switch experience. Cheap keycaps do the rest of making most mechs quite ordinary.


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## Jovidah (Aug 25, 2021)

ModRQC said:


> Your typical rubberdome keyboard of quality is quite silent in activation but the keys are still mushy leading to overcompensation. If you can't recognize or don't appreciate the feedback of a mech over it, in my mind your probably mostly tried the "gamer" red or black switches which I hate. With the Ducky Brown each of my activation is noisier than on your rubberdome, but believe me the whole experience is much more quieter than what I can do on quality rubberdome. I don't exactly claim being faster in a 60 seconds typing test because I've used rubberdomes all my life and still do, but day long use I am. Mech switches demand muscle memory just like sharpening knives. At one point you barely activate and already move on to the next. You need to try Brown or Blue switches - noisier but they're my favorites, especially brown, since with mastering all you hear out of a quality keyboard is the click and some light bottoming out or none at all. You could buy either encased design or low profile switches. You can also buy dampeners for the type of switches without a bump since you're likely to bottom out a lot. Which you always do anyhow if you're typing any kind of fast on rubberdomes.
> 
> I repeat, worse enemy of most mechanical switches is a metal mounting plate, especially in floating design. I guess floating design on dampened mounting material I'd already appreciate more, but encased is best for keyboard profile and a quieter experience. Air grade - or military grade - aluminum they mostly claim, but to me these materials are inferior when comes the time to assemble a sober keyboard that can be used at night with people sleeping around. And the floating design is generally poorer to me except for maintenance.
> 
> Ah yes, and I also repeat that metal mounting plates kill half of the switch experience. Cheap keycaps do the rest of making most mechs quite ordinary.


Oh I notice the difference in feel alright, I just don't think it really makes a difference for gaming performance. Tried reds and browns so far, but I tend to just bottom out regardless when playing anything. I already said before that to me they make most sense for non-gaming applications; people who are actually doing work or typing. Words per minute was pretty much the same for me but yeah it does feel more pleasant.
The noise I personally couldn't care one iota about - I normally have closed headphones on - but I can see that being more of a problem in work environments where people are sharing the same room. But I think if that's really an issue there's plenty of silent switches or rubber rings and whatnot to silence them.

Personally I do like floating design exactly for the ease of cleaning. I agree it's probably noisier, but it never bothered me. I wouldn't be surprised if the most silent was actually cheap soft plastic instead of all these high-grade heavy metal backings.


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## thebradleycrew (Aug 25, 2021)

Any recommendations for a nicer mechanical keyboard for my Macbook, that is quiet enough to type on during Zoom meetings without creating noise to distract other viewers???


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## ModRQC (Aug 25, 2021)

Yeah, linear switches as the nec plus ultra for gamers is a stupid claim. Durability, maybe, but I'm with you that I'd be liable to kill mine with a spill - or simply change to a new one because I feel like it. 

Logitech rubberdomes are good gaming machines. 



Jovidah said:


> Oh I notice the difference in feel alright, I just don't think it really makes a difference for gaming performance. Tried reds and browns so far, but I tend to just bottom out regardless when playing anything. I already said before that to me they make most sense for non-gaming applications; people who are actually doing work or typing. Words per minute was pretty much the same for me but yeah it does feel more pleasant.
> The noise I personally couldn't care one iota about - I normally have closed headphones on - but I can see that being more of a problem in work environments where people are sharing the same room. But I think if that's really an issue there's plenty of silent switches or rubber rings and whatnot to silence them.
> 
> Personally I do like floating design exactly for the ease of cleaning. I agree it's probably noisier, but it never bothered me. I wouldn't be surprised if the most silent was actually cheap soft plastic instead of all these high-grade heavy metal backings.


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## ModRQC (Aug 25, 2021)

thebradleycrew said:


> Any recommendations for a nicer mechanical keyboard for my Macbook, that is quiet enough to type on during Zoom meetings without creating noise to distract other viewers???



Why don't you use its own keyboard?


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## thebradleycrew (Aug 25, 2021)

ModRQC said:


> Why don't you use its own keyboard?


Feels cheap, doesn't have good feedback, and is loud typing.


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## tcmx3 (Aug 25, 2021)

thebradleycrew said:


> Any recommendations for a nicer mechanical keyboard for my Macbook, that is quiet enough to type on during Zoom meetings without creating noise to distract other viewers???



Das professional for macs are fine. well built, available in whatever switches you want. a bit of a premium for the mac version but such is life. 

theyre what I used when my assigned work computers were macbook pros.


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## M1k3 (Aug 25, 2021)




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## tcmx3 (Aug 25, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 139339



that's what I have in my Das, good office switch IMO


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## esoo (Aug 25, 2021)

Buckling springs in the office for the last 14 years because IDGAF.


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## M1k3 (Aug 25, 2021)

I've tried lots of different switches. They all have their pluses and minuses. I've found, for me, the cherry browns are best all around.


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## Pisau (Aug 26, 2021)

Beyond the marketing it's all personal preference, really. I don't game, but I enjoy MX Speed Silvers for typing on the same keyboard as the above. I like reds on this keeb (hotswappable) and gateron browns switches on the Anne Pro 2 (not hotswappable). Each keyboard costs only like a synth stone or two and I can desolder if needed, so being hotswappable is no biggie. Size-wise I'm most used to 60% by now, but I'd stretch to 80%/TKL in order to keep the mouse nearby. I don't mind RGB to cheer things up a little, but PBT keycaps just feel much better. Again, it's all personal pref. However, I tend to type on many devices, life would me much harder for me without the triple mode connectivity (USB cable/Bluetooth/2.4Ghz dongle), maybe at least bluetooth so I can just Fn-Q/W/E to switch typing on the laptop/phone/tablet and the desktop. Speaking of which, I'm currently tossing between a ~3K S&G and a TKL + imitation holy pandas + PBT keycaps. Mechs are so cheap these days. If you don't dip too much into the subculture, it's set and forget really...


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