# Shapton Glass set, new experience.



## Echotraveler (Aug 19, 2019)

Hey guys I wanted to thank all of you for the great discussions, that led to buying a great set of sharpening stones.

After reading your suggestions I bit the bullet and got myself: 

Atoma Diamon 140
Shapton glass 500
Shapton glass 2000
Shapton glass 4000
Strop leather





The stainless knifes go thru 500, 2000, strop

The Carbon steel knifes go thru 500, 2000, 4000, strop

the difference between this setup and my beginner king 2000/4000 is amazing, specially using the atoma to maintain the stones flat. I think thats the biggest improvement...

It's a been tricky for me as a lefty, novice. Introducing myself to re-profiling right handed knifes, cause they gotta conform to me, so im using the 140 to push them towards my needs...then going thru all other stones to get them sharp. after 3 sessions the knife looks totally lefty. so hopefully im doing the right move. any tips on angles is appreciated.

Also sometime im tempted to use the 140 when sharpening, cause that thing gets a bur instantly after very little work. Right now I'm not doing that cause the knifes actually feel sharp even after intense use, which before (old setup) didn't happen, specially after preping and cutting "chachu pork" for 100 ramen bowls.

Im re-undestanding why stainless knifes are great, as they dont leave black marks on my veggies, unlike my carbon knife that sometimes tints veggies a black color. Currently im using the carbon knife for meats only, as it cuts thru pork fat like a champ. 


Now to some esthetic concerns....all my knifes are looking like im a abusing them...they look far from new, and id like to know how to polish the blade sides...its sharp, yes, but they look scratched up...which is ok, cause this is actually a commercially used knife, but them looking good would be a plus. This makes me wonder if im doing this right. As I see all this beautiful knifes around the forum, and my knifes are looking far from those. 







any tips are greatly appreciated.


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## dafox (Aug 19, 2019)

What brands and models are those?


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 20, 2019)

Hey they look great! Just a little scratchy. You’ve been thinning a bit it seems, well done!


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## M1k3 (Aug 20, 2019)

Sandpaper works. I personally just don't care. If it's smooth enough, then that's fine. I'm just going to maintenance thin it in a week, 2 if I'm lucky, later. And be back at scratches.. I work in a kitchen also.


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## Benuser (Aug 20, 2019)

About using the Atoma 140 for thinning or sharpening: if you go that coarse you will need an entire coarse progression (220, 320) to get rid of the scratches and make possible an eventual stable edge. Use a loupe. 
What you win in speed at the beginning gets lost afterward. 
Good automotive sandpaper used on soft wood or hard rubber works quite good as well. Start with P120. Only edge trailing. Edge leading may cause by inadvertance severe overgrinds. Again: make sure it doesn't reach the very edge or expect a lot of work to be done — and quite some blade width to get wasted, too. 
About the geometry change: how is food separation?


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## SeattleBen (Aug 20, 2019)

You’re likely going to have the best luck with sanding them with a wet dry sandpaper. Start lowish and work your way up alternating horizontal and vertical strokes with the change of the sandpaper. Start lower than your lowest stone in the progression and stop when you’re happy. Use lots of water and find a backing surface to save your fingers.


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## kayman67 (Aug 20, 2019)

Very nice set.

The marks are quite irregular. Did you identify a why to avoid them? Are they older? 
Have you considered getting a lower grit stone as well? Maybe Nano hone 200. Seems to be the perfect stone for the job. I haven't tried yet, so I can't comment more, but I want one since Glass series got very poor coarse stones. 

Don't over do it with the flattening. They should require little maintenance and don't need to be that flat. 

For removing the scratches, the easy way would be using sandpaper. I would start from 80/120/180 (really depends a lot on the paper - I've seen one 180 not being able to get the job done even with a lot of work and another flying -, and scratches, but for what I can see, I would start with a macrogrit for sure) and work my way up to 600. This is more than enough. Don't change grits unless marks from previous are gone and all new even. Honestly, you might not need it to be perfect. Use plenty of water. For this you need something that can be used with water. Stuff for cars mainly. 

About those black marks. I've been using carbon steel for some time. With proper care, never had issues. 

Are you changing asymmetrical grinds? Is there a big improvement? 
There are no real fixed angles. As low as the knife and your needs allow. And you can play around with a bit of "70/30-ish", since it's really hard to know exactly how much it is. Just don't overthink it.


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## Benuser (Aug 20, 2019)

Had good experience with the 320 Shapton GS HR.


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## Knife2meatu (Aug 20, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> [...]
> Have you considered getting a lower grit stone as well? Maybe Nano hone 200. Seems to be the perfect stone for the job. I haven't tried yet, so I can't comment more, but I want one since Glass series got very poor coarse stones.
> [...]



Have you used the Glass 220 and found it poor? I so often see very positive comments about the 220, I find it noteworthy that you would choose to recommend the Nano against the very similar grit Glass.


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## inferno (Aug 20, 2019)

I find the glass 220 to be a very good stone myself. very fast and effective, and the wear is not too bad.


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## kayman67 (Aug 20, 2019)

There was one thing bothering me a bit with them as I was trying to understand the behaviour. Pro 220 and 320 were not really meant as a progression, but 320 was designed for carbon. With the Glass series I'm not sure what they did, but I didn't like them and the performance was not on par with the series. I had pretty much all of them from both series, except a couple (I even have the HC). And I'm on my second 500 and 1000, but these days I don't use them as much.


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## kayman67 (Aug 20, 2019)

As far as Nano hone goes right now, I was looking for a stone in this area and this https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/nano-hone.38980/#post-633053 made me consider it even more.


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## Echotraveler (Aug 20, 2019)

wow guys thanx for the great replys

Here I have in order of photo:

Togiharu G-1 Molybdenum 210mm Gyuto
Aritsugu Tsukiji S-Gyuto 210mm
Aritsugu Tsukiji S-Petty (dont remember size, their biggest one)
Amazon Franken Paring Knife (extremely cheap knife)

The Togiharu, is my sharpening teacher...so its all scratched up, and yes ive thinned it because it was righ handed. Its my first real kitchen knife, and I love it, but its had many rough patches, including a "professional sharpener" fixed tip, that i suspect was fixed wrong. I think the "Professional" ate the blade and not the spine to fix the tip...i was a bit mad at this, because i could have done much better. This one is also my first lefty conversion work, and i think its pretty good, as it cuts and stays pretty sharp.


The Aritsugu Petty is supposedly one bevel (lefty), and the Aritsugu Gyutou is 30/70 lefty. Both this knifes are my graduation gift (from myself), after finishing the Tokyo Ramen Academy curriculum. The sensei recommended them, and they are very good, both in price and quality.



Down here (Puerto Rico) we have 90% humidity, so i think that affects the knifes, as i used carbon in japan with no problem. Also im a bit OCD and dont let pattina form to much, as i clean my knife until its shiny, its not that shiny anymore, because after service its always pretty darkish....if my employee leaves it wet, i can see rust developed at the end of the day...not that i let it happen often...


About the 140 steps, thank you guys for the info, makes sense that id have to go 140, 200, 300...and up to make the blade smoother....ill consider this in the future as i get more knifes...will be more carefull witht he 140 which is hard core...


About polishing, ill give it a try and report back...noted lots of water and protecting my hands when polishing. but you guys are right its not so bad. I just have to ignore myself, cause sometimes I think what others might think about the scratches...its a proyection...cause in my circle it seems theres not many people interested in sharp knifes other than my chinese sushi chef friends. 



BTW my barber wants me to try sharpening his scissors...he says he has expensive scissors that are not sharp...and i suspect some other guy tried sharpenning them....

i would like to have some info on this. As i suspect scissors are super difficult to sharpen as they have a slight curve, and if they were damaged by other hands, maybe i should stay away..or be VERY CLEAR about the risk involved with this. Another issue maybe that 4000 is still to course for hair scissors. any info on this will be great.


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## M1k3 (Aug 20, 2019)

I used to worry about scratches. Then I noticed how much back of the mind worrying it caused. Now I just get out the deep scratches and just use the knife. So much more enjoyable.


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## Knife2meatu (Aug 20, 2019)

Echotraveler said:


> [...]
> BTW my barber wants me to try sharpening his scissors...he says he has expensive scissors that are not sharp...and i suspect some other guy tried sharpenning them....
> 
> i would like to have some info on this. As i suspect scissors are super difficult to sharpen as they have a slight curve, and if they were damaged by other hands, maybe i should stay away..or be VERY CLEAR about the risk involved with this. Another issue maybe that 4000 is still to course for hair scissors. any info on this will be great.


 
Dave Martell shared lots of great information in this thread: https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...sharpening-barber-scissors.41918/#post-618578


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## inferno (Aug 20, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> There was one thing bothering me a bit with them as I was trying to understand the behaviour. Pro 220 and 320 were not really meant as a progression, but 320 was designed for carbon. With the Glass series I'm not sure what they did, but I didn't like them and the performance was not on par with the series. I had pretty much all of them from both series, except a couple (I even have the HC). And I'm on my second 500 and 1000, but these days I don't use them as much.



I have the 220 pro and the 220 glass. i think the glass is faster and stay flatter. but you only get like 7mm abrasive. if you try using the pro220 until its finished i think it would crack in half at about 5mm so the difference is not that great. i simply glued 2 220 pros together so i can use them all up. 

My experience with the glass is that they all behave pretty similar, its just the grit thats changing. I really like the glass stones. I think the 500 (double thick)-1-2-3-4-6k (hc) are really nice.


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## GoodMagic (Aug 20, 2019)

Sandpaper is the best way to remove scratches. I use Rhynowet redline. Start at 80-120 grit and dont progress until all the scatches ( the ones perpendicular to the edge are gone). I usually don't go above 400 grit, but you can if desired. Unless you are trying to thin your knives, looks like you may be using to shallow an angle and are thus removing metal above the edge. You can use black sharpie to color the edge and adjust your angle till you are only removing metal where you intend.


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## inferno (Aug 20, 2019)

Echotraveler said:


> About the 140 steps, thank you guys for the info, makes sense that id have to go 140, 200, 300...and up to make the blade smoother....ill consider this in the future as i get more knifes...will be more carefull witht he 140 which is hard core...
> 
> About polishing, ill give it a try and report back...noted lots of water and protecting my hands when polishing. but you guys are right its not so bad. I just have to ignore myself, cause sometimes I think what others might think about the scratches...its a proyection...cause in my circle it seems theres not many people interested in sharp knifes other than my chinese sushi chef friends.
> 
> BTW my barber wants me to try sharpening his scissors...he says he has expensive scissors that are not sharp...and i suspect some other guy tried sharpenning them....



I think you did a good job selecting the stones you have. Its probably the exact same stones I would have gotten if I was getting a 4 stone kit.

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The easiest thing to follow up a 140 atoma with or any XC diamond is a soft/muddy/something that release abrasive 200-400 or so stone. But one have to be careful since the soft stones tend to hide the scratches to some degree and then when you move up to a 1k or so you will see the diamond scratches are still there. 

I dont think you need a 200, 300 and a 400 after the diamond. You just need any coarse stone, like a 220 or so then you can move up to the 500 or even 1000. Or you can simply use the 500 you already have after the diamond. It will just take a bit longer.

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If you want to remove the scratches from the blades you can use a p240 or p180 paper, fold it double or quad so the paper can follow the shape of the blade. Lay it on a flat surface, push the knife against it and go to work. I usually stop at p1000 or p1200 with paper. You want something in between too. p600 is good imo. I move the blade lengthwise.

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For scissors i have no idea, but how hard can it really be?? I kinda doubt you would need something finer than 4k.


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## kayman67 (Aug 20, 2019)

inferno said:


> I have the 220 pro and the 220 glass. i think the glass is faster and stay flatter. but you only get like 7mm abrasive. if you try using the pro220 until its finished i think it would crack in half at about 5mm so the difference is not that great. i simply glued 2 220 pros together so i can use them all up.
> 
> My experience with the glass is that they all behave pretty similar, its just the grit thats changing. I really like the glass stones. I think the 500 (double thick)-1-2-3-4-6k (hc) are really nice.



+1 for the HC. I'm not sure why the HC counterparts are not as popular. 

For scissors, once you understand the geometry, it gets easier. But you might have stones too aggressive for barber's scissors. I usually go up to 16k and I'm very gentle with mid grits.


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## adam92 (Aug 22, 2019)

Anyone can tell me where to buy shapton glass HC series ? are they worth ?

I have a shapton ceramic 220, very good feeling stone just the cons is very aggressive stone, have to flatter after each sharpening.


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## M1k3 (Aug 22, 2019)

adam92 said:


> Anyone can tell me where to buy shapton glass HC series ? are they worth ?
> 
> I have a shapton ceramic 220, very good feeling stone just the cons is very aggressive stone, have to flatter after each sharpening.



Sharpeningsupplies.com and MTCKitchen I believe carry them.


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## adam92 (Aug 22, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> Sharpeningsupplies.com and MTCKitchen I believe carry them.


Cool, I'll have a look, thanks so much .


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## ian (Aug 22, 2019)

Echotraveler said:


> Also sometime im tempted to use the 140 when sharpening, cause that thing gets a bur instantly after very little work.





Benuser said:


> About using the Atoma 140 for thinning or sharpening: if you go that coarse you will need an entire coarse progression (220, 320) to get rid of the scratches and make possible an eventual stable edge. Use a loupe.
> What you win in speed at the beginning gets lost afterward.



I've found starting a repair or thinning on an Atoma 140 to be quite useful. I can jump straight from there to a King 300, then a medium grit stone. Yes, you'll have to wail on it with the 300 for a while to get rid of the scratches, but when you're doing a job that requires removing a ton of metal it's a good option imo. Certainly, you're only going to do this if you're doing a major thinning, repair or alteration. I'd never use it for actual sharpening. Yes, you get an immediate `burr', but that's because it's ripping your edge to shreds. Big waste of metal.


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## M1k3 (Aug 26, 2019)

Here's what I'm talking about. It's extra ugly this time. I was in a hurry so my progression went SG500->King 6k. Sorry for the poor quality pictures.


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## M1k3 (Aug 28, 2019)

Here's a slightly better one. Don't mind the chip at the heel, it magically appeared yesterday when I left the line. It also had some some food remnants left on it....

EDIT: P.S. the new guy found out my scratched up, barely pointy tipped knife is kept super sharp!


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## inferno (Aug 30, 2019)

adam92 said:


> Anyone can tell me where to buy shapton glass HC series ? are they worth ?
> 
> I have a shapton ceramic 220, very good feeling stone just the cons is very aggressive stone, have to flatter after each sharpening.



i own the 6k hc and have used the 8k hc for some time. 
compared to the pro 8k the hc 8k is slower. but it polishes like a 12k but its much faster than a 12k. also rock hard stones just as the hr. will probably wear just as slow imo. 

I really like the hc series. the hc 4k might be a real killer imo. fast as a 4k but maybe polish like 6k or so. you could use any 1k and then just that 4k i'm thinking. hc stones are very very good imo.


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## adam92 (Aug 31, 2019)

inferno said:


> i own the 6k hc and have used the 8k hc for some time.
> compared to the pro 8k the hc 8k is slower. but it polishes like a 12k but its much faster than a 12k. also rock hard stones just as the hr. will probably wear just as slow imo.
> 
> I really like the hc series. the hc 4k might be a real killer imo. fast as a 4k but maybe polish like 6k or so. you could use any 1k and then just that 4k i'm thinking. hc stones are very very good imo.


Do you think hc 4k is better than pro series ? can i know where did you buy it?


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## Benuser (Sep 2, 2019)

Anyone having used both the HC and HR series?


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## kayman67 (Sep 2, 2019)

HC is smoother and will give high(er) polished edges. Also HC surface is easier to maintain if I think of it now. What's your concern?


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## Knife2meatu (Sep 2, 2019)

@kayman67 What are the most obvious drawbacks from using the HC stones on medium/high alloy steels and stainless steels -- in other words, using the HC stones precisely for what the HR stones are intended, if my understanding is correct -- in your experience?


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## Benuser (Sep 2, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> HC is smoother and will give high(er) polished edges. Also HC surface is easier to maintain if I think of it now. What's your concern?


Thanks. Have only tried coarse ones from the HR series, essentially with carbons. Fast and aggressive, hardly a problem when the purpose is to have a lot of steel to get removed.


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## kayman67 (Sep 2, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> @kayman67 What are the most obvious drawbacks from using the HC stones on medium/high alloy steels and stainless steels -- in other words, using the HC stones precisely for what the HR stones are intended, if my understanding is correct -- in your experience?



To date, they hold their own very well. They are just different, with a higher bias towards polishing while they don't "sharpen" as fast. If you expect to dish a lot faster, they don't. I was expecting that and just didn't happen.


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## 29palms (Sep 4, 2019)

I keep glass 1k and 4k in the kitchen. I can whip them out for a quick touch up if need be without setting up my regular sharpening station. I set them on my mounted King 6k so I have room to work, a wet paper towel keeps them from slip/sliding. I finish with a few strokes on the King then strop. 10-15 minutes tops for two, or three blades depending on condition. I like the glass stones they are splash and go and dry quickly.

I found several micro chips in my Goko W#1 gyuto yesterday and got all but the worst one out in @ five minutes. That was while I had pork chops in the sous vide so very convenient.


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## Matus (Sep 4, 2019)

I am starting seriously to consider 500, 2000 and 4000 myself to be honest ...


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## stringer (Sep 4, 2019)

Matus said:


> I am starting seriously to consider 500, 2000 and 4000 myself to be honest ...



I am on my third SG 500 and second 2000. I go through a 500 every 3 years or so. The 2k would have lasted me decades but I dropped one a few years ago and had to replace it. They are my workhorses. My 4k and 8k are 10 years old and going strong. I have started adding quite a few more stones to my collection over the last year or two but there isn't really anything I can't do (at least as far as edges are concerned) with the SG 500, 2k, 4k. For polishing they aren't great. They are too bright and shiny for doing anything hazy or with strong contrast. But at the same time they are pretty hard so they tend to leave a streaky finish that isn't great for mirror either.


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## Matus (Sep 4, 2019)

I am indeed looking at these stones 'just' for sharpening and not finishing.


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## M1k3 (Sep 4, 2019)

Matus said:


> I am indeed looking at these stones 'just' for sharpening and not finishing.



They are quite the "just works" kind of stone, for edges.


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## inferno (Sep 4, 2019)

Matus said:


> I am starting seriously to consider 500, 2000 and 4000 myself to be honest ...



DO IT!!

get the 500 double thick from dictum. 
also the 3k is like, god damn! i think the 3k is the best glass stone they make. i love them all though.


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## inferno (Sep 4, 2019)

stringer said:


> I am on my third SG 500 and second 2000. I go through a 500 every 3 years or so. The 2k would have lasted me decades but I dropped one a few years ago and had to replace it. They are my workhorses. My 4k and 8k are 10 years old and going strong. I have started adding quite a few more stones to my collection over the last year or two but there isn't really anything I can't do (at least as far as edges are concerned) with the SG 500, 2k, 4k. For polishing they aren't great. They are too bright and shiny for doing anything hazy or with strong contrast. But at the same time they are pretty hard so they tend to leave a streaky finish that isn't great for mirror either.



good to know the long term durability from a known poweruser!

I also use my glass most of all stones. its just so quick to use them. no soaking no nothing, i just literally splash some water on there and start hogging. done. and then when done i can put them back in the drawer etc after like 10-30 minutes. whats not to like? 

I have lots of shapton stones and to be honest i dont think any one of them produce any mirror finish at all. not even the pro 12k. these are not polishing stones imo. i think the glass 8k hc made a better mirror then the 12k pro to be honest. or at the very least very close.

sure i have not tried the 16k glass or the 2 different 30 k's. and i'm not going to either. the 16k is mixed grit from 2k up to 16k so it will never ever produce any mirror finish not even theoretically.
I have crox paste (hand american) if i want mirror polish. and its probably better than any stone at doing that.

i think the high grit ones leave a consistent fine hazy finish though. i dont see any of my stones leave streaks that ruins the finish, whatever it now might be. not even the pro ones i have.


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## Matus (Sep 4, 2019)

So a 3k instead of 2k + 4k (or 2k + 6k) ?

And yes - I am looking at Dictum


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## inferno (Sep 4, 2019)

what about a 500 double thick and a 3k? thats good for SS. 
if you wanna do carbon also then add the gray 6k hc?
the 6k gray is also a seriously good f-ing stone.

or maybe the 1k and the 3k. but you can just as well use the 1k pro if you already have it.

i gave my cousin the 500 and the 3k and it was a match made in heaven imo. he has a cryoed mac that i gave him and then some cheaper 20-50€, SS knives. and this combo worked very well and fast.

with that being said. at the 4k mark with the glass stones. then it turns very very sharp. the 3k does not really get there. 

the 3k is good for all non powder ss since this is kind their max level of practical "holdable" sharpness.
the 4k is good/better for powder ss and carbon.

so i simply suggest you get both. and the 500. 

i like the feeling of the 3k much more though. and the 3k does not clog up. but the 4k does. thats the price you pay for that extra sharpness. its at the pivot point where this happens.


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## inferno (Sep 4, 2019)

i already owned the 2k and the 4k for several years when i borrowed one of my coworkers 3k. used it for maybe 30 seconds and then i knew i had to have it.


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## kayman67 (Sep 4, 2019)

knivesandtools.com might be worth a try for some of them and if a combo deal applies, prices get really really good for SG stones. Always my source. I've recommended them so many times, I should get commission or something  

I have some info on Nano Hone 400 (dictum sells this) compared to SG 500. NH is faster (one really fast bevel setter, unexpected) and more consistent, giving a better edge/finish to work with, if that matters for anything. I want to buy the coarser 200 version though.

There aren't that many options for this form.


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## adam92 (Oct 27, 2019)

inferno said:


> I have the 220 pro and the 220 glass. i think the glass is faster and stay flatter. but you only get like 7mm abrasive. if you try using the pro220 until its finished i think it would crack in half at about 5mm so the difference is not that great. i simply glued 2 220 pros together so i can use them all up.
> 
> My experience with the glass is that they all behave pretty similar, its just the grit thats changing. I really like the glass stones. I think the 500 (double thick)-1-2-3-4-6k (hc) are really nice.


Can i know where did you biy the glass stone?


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## Alder26 (Oct 27, 2019)

I have found that foam sanding blocks can be perfect for refreshing migaki finishes like your knives have. Just use light strokes parallel to the scratches that are on the surface already. Take your time and it will look 100x better.


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