# Suehiro "kouga" 3k and sigma power "select 2" 3k



## masibu (Mar 18, 2016)

hello, looking at purchasing a slightly muddy 3k stone and just wondering if anyone has user experience with either of these stones (playing around with my lineup yet again). I guess a soft aoto would also be worth consideration as well. I would most likely get use out of this stone to finish stainless (aus 8/10, carbonext, ginsanko) and soft carbon (sk4). it would also potentially see use as a precursor to the snow white I have recently been using again. 

do both stones leave a hazy look on cladding? do either 'feel' better than the other or find it easier to deburr on one stone over the other?


----------



## Steampunk (Mar 19, 2016)

I would also like to learn what someone has to say about the Suehiro Kouga 3000 (Which one company is selling in the US as the 'Rika' 3k, as it is also from Suehiro's traditional stone line like the 5K.)... I too am interested in this stone. 

The only soft stone I have tried in this range, since the OP opened up the consideration of a synthetic Aoto, is the JNS Red Aoto. I really, really like this stone. It's soft, and muddy, but not too soft to use on edge bevels; very enjoyable feel. Dishes, but not crazy quickly for a stone this soft, and easy to flatten. Supposedly it's a mix of 2-4K grit, and even though it convexes the edge a little more than a harder stone, you can still get enough crispness to shave arm/leg hair okay (Especially if you jump to it from a harder 800-1K stone, and sharpen with a fine touch.). Nice blend of tooth and polish for a working edge, and one of the best stones I own for contrast and refining the blade road after thinning. Easy to get a clean edge on this stone on steels prone to a wire edge/burr. I permasoak mine, and would advise doing so, even though it is labeled as 'Splash & Go'. Seems to do much better this way. I also love that it's a nice big brick... 

Hopefully this helps...

- Steampunk


----------



## Jovidah (Mar 19, 2016)

Suehiro Kouga 3000... am I the only one who thinks this stone sounds like... a more experienced woman?


----------



## masibu (Mar 20, 2016)

experienced woman.. wonder if she knows a thing or two about sharpening? i ended up placing an order on the suehiro, purely because its cheaper and i have enjoyed the rika 5k in the past. might even do a review if im feeling sassy. my only gripe is that it comes with a base attached... ill probably try to find a way to remove it before long


----------



## masibu (May 11, 2016)

been using the kouga a little bit recently.. for those interested it seems to perform similarly to the 5k rika in that it needs a soak to get it going and there is a fair amount of mud built up.(although its been some time since i have used the 5k).

haven't used it extensively yet but there does appear to be a bit of contrast between cladding and core steels in use which is pretty cool. My main gripe is the stand it comes in..after soaking the stone the feet of the stand slide around easily. a minor annoyance really. At some point when I have time I'll try to compare finishes with a superstone 2k which I have recently revisited (and thankfully have grown more fond of). the kouga is definitely more muddy and I'm guessing will show better contrast between steels. however I feel like I have been getting crisper edges with the superstone (so far) and the fact it's splash and go is pretty convenient. for those that like to strop on a dry stone, the 2k superstone works a treat. gives a shiny edge that easily shaves hair for those that like that kind of thing too.


----------



## berko (May 11, 2016)

does the kouga load up or clog?


----------



## spoiledbroth (May 11, 2016)

Funny I just got a select II for my chef have yet to hear what he thinks about it though


----------



## masibu (May 12, 2016)

have not noticed any loading or clogging issues with the kouga. it is pretty 'creamy'. i don't doubt though that if it were not soaked long enough there would be a degree of loading. im leaving it permasoaked at the moment to see what happens but I'm assuming a 30 minute soak would suffice. I'm itching to try the select 2 for comparison, mostly because of the lack of stand and perhaps it would work a little faster on tougher alloys


----------



## Keith Sinclair (May 12, 2016)

I got the Sigma Power Select 2 1K. I cleaned up a few Machete's cut the bevels with a bucket of water & 60 grit 1X42 belt. Refined the edges with the Sigma worked well fast cutting stone. Also good for sharpening my tough M390 Spyderco.


----------



## spoiledbroth (May 13, 2016)

well my chef was very displeased with the sigma 3k for what its worth. he showed me side by side with his masamoto 3k (which needs replacing) and it is indeed quite bit coarser than I would expect from a 3k... for what it's worth and your mileage may vary.


----------



## masibu (May 14, 2016)

what was he sharpening? is it a particularly muddy stone providing a bit of contrast or is it just eating the steel leaving scratches? I don't mind a 'coarse 3k' as its gonna be used on stainless gyutos, a couple carbon sujis or jumping to something finer for a few other carbons (finishing on snow white again atm)


----------



## spoiledbroth (May 14, 2016)

Seemed to be eating steel.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (May 15, 2016)

Yep my 1K eats steel it is not for all blades, but works well for those harder to sharpen blades


----------



## spoiledbroth (May 16, 2016)

Sorry they were masamoto ks knives I think


----------



## Dardeau (May 16, 2016)

The flip side of the kind of crappy edge retention you get with KS knives is that you can sharpen them in no time on almost anything. I can see where a stone that cuts super fast would be less than ideal.


----------



## osakajoe (May 16, 2016)

The select II series is designed with powder steels in mind. So they are very aggressive and fast, making easy work of steels softer than R2. I love them. Since I sharpen professionally everyday it makes my job fast and easy. 

The 3K is a good stone and comes close to feeling like a natural stone when using it in my experience. If you're taking off too much steel you either have very soft steel and are applying way to much pressure, or sharpening in one spot too long. 

Yes it will feel coarser as it is more aggressive but would I finish on the sigma 3K? No I would then finish on a 5K or 6K. All the heavy lifting has been done and its down hill from the next stone. 

However at home I never use a 3K only at work. My personal home stones I use the sigma select II 1200 and finish on a Naniwa gouken Hayabusa 4K. These serve me very well. I use the Select II 240 the few times I need thinning or repairs.


----------



## masibu (May 16, 2016)

Thanks for all the info. It would appear the kouga and sp 2 are very different stones. Given that I sharpen mostly carbon knives and rarely sharpen anything harder than vg-10 perhaps the sp2 would be a bit wasteful for me.

Still haven't had a thinning and proper cladding contrasting session with the kouga yet (been looking for a new place to rent for a month followed by moving the last week) but have been pretty happy with each touch up. It's trivial to raise mud on and the sharpening surface is very "smooth" feeling in use. After raising a burr, I have been drying off the stone and doing a couple slightly higher angled swipes at light pressure to deburr which seems to give a "shavable" edge slightly easier than when finishing on the saturated stone but I could be tripping balls.

My itinomonn/toyama slicers have been getting finished on this stone and feel plenty toothy. my fujiwara carbon gyuto has been the main guinea pig with stones and the kouga seems to have a slightly more aggressive edge than the superstone 2k. The superstone will easily deliver a shinier finish. The kouga is probably a more straight forward stone to use though as it doesnt clog/load and feels a bit more pleasant (creamier) in use. the superstone tends to load easily and needs a bit more misting during use. It's not really muddy but it is fairly easy to gouge if you get reckless with it. 

I think the stone I'm looking for would be a compromise between these two stones. A splash n go version of the kouga stone without a stand would be pretty much perfect for me but I'm not sure what options that leaves. There are synthetic aotos but they seem to be oversized which to be honest is more a pain in the arse as I bring my stones to and from work and they seem to fall in the "soak for a little while but not indefinitely" category so I can't just randomly sharpen up when I find a spare couple of minutes to do so at work.


----------



## panda (May 16, 2016)

Chosera


----------



## berko (May 17, 2016)

yeah, chosera 3k.


----------



## DanHumphrey (May 17, 2016)

osakajoe said:


> The select II series is designed with powder steels in mind. So they are very aggressive and fast, making easy work of steels softer than R2. I love them. Since I sharpen professionally everyday it makes my job fast and easy.
> 
> The 3K is a good stone and comes close to feeling like a natural stone when using it in my experience. If you're taking off too much steel you either have very soft steel and are applying way to much pressure, or sharpening in one spot too long.
> 
> ...



Oh. Would the Sigma 3k be good for the Takamura R2s, then? I was wondering if I should use the same stones for that as everything else.


----------



## osakajoe (May 19, 2016)

DanHumphrey said:


> Oh. Would the Sigma 3k be good for the Takamura R2s, then? I was wondering if I should use the same stones for that as everything else.



Yeah it's fine for minimal maintenance on R2 steel. If it's quite dull and damaged you'll need to drop a bit lower.


----------



## DanHumphrey (May 22, 2016)

osakajoe said:


> Yeah it's fine for minimal maintenance on R2 steel. If it's quite dull and damaged you'll need to drop a bit lower.



It's not bad. But, is the Sigma 3k going to be noticeably better for R2 than another quality 3k like the Gesshin?


----------

