# Beginner stone - King #1000 Delux or Sharpron pro



## Ceriano (Mar 14, 2021)

What is the difference between these two stone? Is Sharpton pro worth it? I'm new to sharpening and my only decent knife is a Takamura R2.









King #1000 Deluxe Knife Sharpening Stone


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Shapton Traditional #1000 Knife Sharpening Stone


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## Rangen (Mar 14, 2021)

You have listed two stones that are very, very good. I do not have either currently, but I started out on the King stones, and they are great, though they need flattening more than some others. I love Shapton Glass stones, which are, IMO, better than the King, but from all I've read, the Shapton Pro are very much their equal, though not exactly the same.

Naturally it would be best to buy both and compare them. But if that's not an option, what I can tell you is that there is not a wrong choice to make between those too.


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## adam92 (Mar 14, 2021)

They're different stone, King need to be soaked & spot is splash & go, if you don't mind soaker king is good, hyper maybe better if only one stone, for my I'll go for sp as s&g is easier for me when no time to wait.


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## daveb (Mar 14, 2021)

Let's see...... Copious amounts of orange mud down the drain, constant flattening, Or...... a no muss, no fuss, sharp knife.


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## Rangen (Mar 14, 2021)

daveb said:


> Let's see...... Copious amounts of orange mud down the drain, constant flattening, Or...... a no muss, no fuss, sharp knife.



You're not wrong. But nothing can dislodge my affection for those muddy stones I started my sharpening journey with.


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## KingShapton (Mar 15, 2021)

With the search function you will find a lot of information about the two stones here in the forum.

Among other things, personal preferences also play a role in the selection of stones. These preferences can only develop if you use different stones and find out what suits you.

And of course these preferences can change over time, skills and technology develop and you often learn to appreciate stones that you could not handle before.

If you choose the King, I would recommend the King 1.2K instead of the King 1K, it is the better stone of the two. And one more piece of advice (or decision-making aid), the King benefits from a soaking time of 2-3 hours. It is noticeably better to use.


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## KingShapton (Mar 15, 2021)

Another addition, if you only want to maintain your knife with a single stone, then the King 1.2k would be more suitable than the Shapton Pro 1K. After the king stropping on bare leather and you're done.

But with the steel of your knife, I would buy a finishing stone in the long run (if you have developed your technique a bit).


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## Ceriano (Mar 15, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> Another addition, if you only want to maintain your knife with a single stone, then the King 1.2k would be more suitable than the Shapton Pro 1K. After the king stropping on bare leather and you're done.
> 
> But with the steel of your knife, I would buy a finishing stone in the long run (if you have developed your technique a bit).



Thank you that was my other question, Isn't 1000 too much for takamura R2? I hear some people maintain it with 4000 and above. I don't abuse this knife and usually strop it after every 2 or 3 uses.


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## Ceriano (Mar 15, 2021)

Rangen said:


> You're not wrong. But nothing can dislodge my affection for those muddy stones I started my sharpening journey with.



Is this the right type nagura for flattening the stone?



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015X6R792/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1X4D4S2AAW4QB&psc=1


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## KingShapton (Mar 15, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> Thank you that was my other question, Isn't 1000 too much for takamura R2? I hear some people maintain it with 4000 and above. I don't abuse this knife and usually strop it after every 2 or 3 uses.


Now things are getting complicated ...

There is a difference between maintaining and sharpening a knife - but to maintain it you have to be able to sharpen it.

A tip would be to keep the R2 sharp with stropping for as long as possible and practice sharpening with the 1K on your old knives. It takes time, patience, and practice, especially patience and practice.

If you have understood the basics of sharpening and have developed muscle memory, then you can maintain your R2 with a finer stone (2-4K, depending on your preferences and use) or keep it sharp with touchups. But for that you have to learn to sharpen first.

As for the basics of sharpening, as I've already written, use the search function of this forum and read something here. You can find tons of knowledge, instructions and videos here. Invest some time in theory, it will pay off in practice afterwards.


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## KingShapton (Mar 15, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> Is this the right type nagura for flattening the stone?


You don't use a nagura to flatten a stone. Among other things, diamond plates are used for this.

Here, too, there are pages of threads in this forum on the subject of "how to flatten a stone". Please read a little more into the topic, many of your questions will then answer themselves. And we can help with questions that are still open afterwards.


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## daveb (Mar 15, 2021)

Or you could skip this part and get the SP.


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## Delat (Mar 15, 2021)

I do light touchups on my Kamo R2 with an SG4000. SG in theory is formulated for high HRC stainless alloys, while the Pros are for either or both carbon and stainless depending on the particular stone. In theory. In practice they seem pretty interchangeable from user comments.

CK2G has an SG set including 500, 1k, 4k for $167 which is what I bought as a set to replace my ancient waterstones. You’ll need something to flatten them - you can go cheap with sandpaper but I got an Atoma 140. The SGs did need just a bit of a flattening out of the box. 

I haven’t used the SG500 on my Shiro Kamo yet (and not sure I’ll need to for a looong time). So far only on my practice knives - my Shun and Wusthofs.


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## tostadas (Mar 15, 2021)

The shapton 1k is the stone I recommend to all my friends and family that want a single stone for sharpening their knives. The ease of use and lack of maintenance is very valuable. Muddy stones are nice too, but if you factor in time needed to pre-soak, cleaning up mud, and flatten (more often). When I don't have the luxury of time to sharpen, I grab my shapton and can easily touch up a knife in 10secs with a few quick edge leading swipes.

With a takamura, you could do 1k, then strop on paper. Alternatively, supplement the 1k stone with a shapton 2k. I have a bunch of stones now to play with, but if I lost em all, the first 2 stones I'd replace would be the shapton pro 1k+2k.


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## Bensbites (Mar 15, 2021)

adam92 said:


> They're different stone, King need to be soaked & spot is splash & go, if you don't mind soaker king is good, hyper maybe better if only one stone, for my I'll go for sp as s&g is easier for me when no time to wait.


I went to double check the specs on the king. SP&G is the reason I like shapton.


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## adam92 (Mar 15, 2021)

Ceriano said:


> Thank you that was my other question, Isn't 1000 too much for takamura R2? I hear some people maintain it with 4000 and above. I don't abuse this knife and usually strop it after every 2 or 3 uses.


Sometimes I only sharpen 1k on my Takamura R2. depands on what I cut, if I need to cut a lots of peppers, trimming the meat & tomato skin, as 1k give me more toothy edge. If I'm cutting precious cut with ginger or onion, I stop at 4k.


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## Ceriano (Mar 15, 2021)

adam92 said:


> Sometimes I only sharpen 1k on my Takamura R2. depands on what I cut, if I need to cut a lots of peppers, trimming the meat & tomato skin, as 1k give me more toothy edge. If I'm cutting precious cut with ginger or onion, I stop at 4k.


I think it's probably safer for me to start with 2000 or 4K on the R2. My freehand sharpening skills are pretty much at the same level as this guy! I wish I had his confidence too!


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## Ceriano (Mar 16, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> Another addition, if you only want to maintain your knife with a single stone, then the King 1.2k would be more suitable than the Shapton Pro 1K. After the king stropping on bare leather and you're done.
> 
> But with the steel of your knife, I would buy a finishing stone in the long run (if you have developed your technique a bit).



I ordered the king 1200. What should I get for the finer stone? #5000?


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## Michi (Mar 16, 2021)

I would suggest holding off on a second stone until you have figured out what to do with the first one. For many tasks, a 5000 stone will make the knife perform worse (and that’s assuming that you know what you are doing).

Contrary to popular belief, higher grit does not mean a sharper or better performing knife. For most knives, the tap closes at around 3000. And it is much more difficult to create a good edge with a high-grit stone than a lower-grit one.

Wait until you can get your knife shaving-sharp on the 1200 (which is easily achievable). Then come back and get some tips on a second stone.


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## KingShapton (Mar 16, 2021)

Michi said:


> I would suggest holding off on a second stone until you have figured out what to do with the first one. For many tasks, a 5000 stone will make the knife perform worse (and that’s assuming that you know what you are doing).
> 
> Contrary to popular belief, higher grit does not mean a sharper or better performing knife. For most knives, the tap closes at around 3000. And it is much more difficult to create a good edge with a high-grit stone than a lower-grit one.
> 
> Wait until you can get your knife shaving-sharp on the 1200 (which is easily achievable). Then come back and get some tips on a second stone.


 I have nothing more to add. @Michi speaks my thoughts.


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## Ceriano (Mar 16, 2021)

Michi said:


> I would suggest holding off on a second stone until you have figured out what to do with the first one. For many tasks, a 5000 stone will make the knife perform worse (and that’s assuming that you know what you are doing).
> 
> Contrary to popular belief, higher grit does not mean a sharper or better performing knife. For most knives, the tap closes at around 3000. And it is much more difficult to create a good edge with a high-grit stone than a lower-grit one.
> 
> Wait until you can get your knife shaving-sharp on the 1200 (which is easily achievable). Then come back and get some tips on a second stone.


 makes perfect sense thank you! Is victorinox a good practice knife or should I order some carbon steel knives to practice?


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## KingShapton (Mar 16, 2021)

When it comes to sharpening, carbon steel knives are different from the stainless steel from Victorinox.

To get a first impression, I would suggest you practice both on the Victorinox and on an inexpensive knife made of carbon steel. The knife with the carbon steel will be easier to sharpen, so you can directly see differences when sharpening different steels. And every knife you sharpen means practice ...


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## daveb (Mar 16, 2021)

I usually advise folks to practice on the knives they're going to use. If you've got to go the practice route then pick up a cheap carbon - as noted above it will quickly let you see what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong. A Vnox and the like are so abrasion resistant that not much learning will take place.

Bes way to buy cheap carbon is to go onto the bay and look for "vintage Forgecraft knives" The chef knives have gotten pricey over the years but a boning knife or cleaver can be had in the 15 - 20 buck range. You can work your way through sharpening, bevel setting, thinning and even rehandling if you like. And at the end of the day you'll have a decent knife.


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## Ceriano (Mar 16, 2021)

daveb said:


> I usually advise folks to practice on the knives they're going to use. If you've got to go the practice route then pick up a cheap carbon - as noted above it will quickly let you see what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong. A Vnox and the like are so abrasion resistant that not much learning will take place.
> 
> Bes way to buy cheap carbon is to go onto the bay and look for "vintage Forgecraft knives" The chef knives have gotten pricey over the years but a boning knife or cleaver can be had in the 15 - 20 buck range. You can work your way through sharpening, bevel setting, thinning and even rehandling if you like. And at the end of the day you'll have a decent knife.


I haven’t had much luck sharpening vnox in the past. But those were their boning knives, I haven’t tried sharpening my chef knife. I probably order one of these tojiros I’ll get more use out of this than a cheap $20 carbon steels.






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## esoo (Mar 16, 2021)

I have that Tojiro and the nakiri of the same line. They can get acceptably sharp off my Shapton Pro 1K.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

daveb said:


> Or you could skip this part and get the SP.


Not really... maybe I just use my stones more than others, but the shapton definitely has noticable wear. Especially being someone new to sharpening, they will likely not wear the stone evenly. So it will definitely need some flattening before longm Though slower than king, it definitely wears down, that's just the nature of the beast.


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