# Shigefusa KU Nakiri Sharpening



## rj_1 (Mar 10, 2016)

Hey guys,

I just picked up a Shig KU Nakiri. Before sharpening, I just wanted to know if there was anything specific about these knives that I should be aware of? I'm still fairly new to this, so I want to make sure I don't mess up the geometry. 

Specifically...is there one single bevel from the shinogi down to the edge or two?

Thanks!


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## KimBronnum (Mar 10, 2016)

The grind of the Shigefusa knives is a great part of what makes the knives very special (in my view). The bevel from the shinogi line to the edge is not one straight line. 
Regarding sharpening: they come very well sharpened - if it is a new knive - so in that case don´t sharpen it for a while. When you are going to sharpen, I suggest that you aim to sharpen just the edge untill you become a bit more experienced in sharpening. I suggest to use "the sharpie trick" - introduced in Jon Broida´s videos - to make sure you hit the desired areas when sharpening. Via this trick, aim to sharpen from the edge and approx three millimeters above. You can do this kind of touch up or light sharpening maybe as much as 10 times without any significant loss of persormance (due to thickness behind the edge). This does of cause depend on how much metal you grind away during each touch up - so don´t over do it. I usually take my knives to the stones for a touch up whenever they start struggeling with pepper- and tomato skins. Then spend 2-5 minutes on your finest stone. 
Eventually the knife needs to have fatigued metal removed in a bigger scale and also some thinning done, but this won´t be due for a long time. By then you may be a more confident sharpener  
I used my families and neighbors knives to practice on. Sorry for the long post  I hope I answered your questions. 
- Kim


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## rj_1 (Mar 10, 2016)

Thanks Kim! No apology necessary...this was very helpful.

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't need anything right away. But it's not cutting as well as my Takeda gyuto or Zwilling Kramer (stainless). So, I thought maybe they expected the user to touch it up before using it. 

I was just doing some test cuts on some veggies. Maybe I should see how it fares on a full meal first?

But yeah...I'll definitely take your advice and only work on the edge when I do decide to sharpen it.

Thanks!


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## Chicagohawkie (Mar 10, 2016)

Prior to thinning sharpen this like you would any other knife.


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## TheDispossessed (Mar 10, 2016)

rj_1 said:


> But it's not cutting as well as my Takeda gyuto or Zwilling Kramer (stainless). So, I thought maybe they expected the user to touch it up before using it.


I had a shig KU nakiri, so here's my two cents.
While it had a beautiful sculpted like shape and these wonderful curves and a hell of a distal taper, that knife never cut particularly well. It would happily take a very fine edge and do things like cut scallions really nicely but wedged like hell on harder foods and cut through onions poorly. I can't speak for other Shigefusa grinds but those KU nakiris seem too thick to me behind the edge. 
The good news is the bevel is very uniform, as a result of careful shaping so should you choose to do some aggressive thinning it should go fairly smoothly. 
Cheers
Matteo


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## YG420 (Mar 10, 2016)

I too have noticed that my 240 kasumi and kitajei gyutos are wedge monsters as well. The kato on the other hand, cuts through product like butter.


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## SolidSnake03 (Mar 10, 2016)

x3 on the wedgie monster. Owned three Shigs, two were ku and one was Kasumi, all wedged and had "ok" overall performance but nothing more. My Takeda performed much better as well, was an older Takeda Classic. 

That said, regarding the sharpening, I found it to do better stopping around a 3k-5k edge and then stropping from that point. The extra tooth seemed to help mine perform better when I owned them.


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## easy13 (Mar 10, 2016)

They are for sure wedgie, real carrot crackers, not just the KU line either


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## rj_1 (Mar 10, 2016)

Ah! Glad it's not just me and I'm not going crazy. It definitely wedges on carrots too. Impeccable finish and feels great though.

So, does anyone think it's worth taking the time to thin it? Has anyone successfully done it to the point that it doesn't wedge on harder veggies?

Or would it be better to keep it as is and sell if I'm not happy with it?


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## TheDispossessed (Mar 11, 2016)

rj_1 said:


> Or would it be better to keep it as is and sell if I'm not happy with it?



This would be my recommendation.
IMO Shigefusa are better to look at than use, double bevels anyway.


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## Jovidah (Mar 11, 2016)

There's bound to be at least someone around who's willing to take out a 3rd mortgage on his house to add his 23rd specimen to his collection... :biggrin:


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## Asteger (Mar 11, 2016)

TheDispossessed said:


> This would be my recommendation.
> IMO Shigefusa are better to look at than use, double bevels anyway.



Haha, probably lots of truth to this +1

That said, nakiri are on the simple end of knives to thin/sharpen and I say don't be afraid to try. I had 2 nakiri previously (not shig) and sold the better one, and kept another I never used because I'd bought it from the maker on a visit. Anyway, it was just too thick and a bit wavey and so I kept it for 'future wor' and finally spent 2 hrs or so recently thinning it. Good knife now, I think.


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## rj_1 (Mar 11, 2016)

Thanks guys! Yeah, I figure I won't have much trouble selling it if I want to. 

I think I'll try using it for a couple weeks to see how it goes. Doesn't make sense to make a decision until I've really spent some time with it. If I decide to thin it, I'll just take it easy.

Here's a question though:

I've got to assume that Iizuka San and his sons know what they're doing. And based on how well finished the knife is, and that others have had similar experiences, I doubt that the wedging is due to an oversight or negligence. This has to be how they intended the knife to be. I imagine if they wanted to make it thinner, they could do that easily.

So, what would the advantages be to having a knife that's a bit thicker? Are they trading off a bit of wedging for another attribute? Food release perhaps?


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## Asteger (Mar 11, 2016)

Could be. I imagine there's also the idea that if too thick, that can be fixed whereas if too thin then there's more of a problem, according to the buyer's tastes. On the other hand, maybe us buyers are being given more trust than we deserve? If this is the case, then I'm not sure how much the trust is warranted.


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## Smurfmacaw (Mar 12, 2016)

My recommendation is to put a microbevel on it before you use it. It's been my experience that the oob edge is very delicate and "chippy". I've been told that they are that way intentionally and the maker expects the new owner to put the "working" edge on the knife. I used my kitaeji nakiri straight out of the box and after one prep session it looked like a razor saw under the loupe. Two minutes on the stones and a proper micro-bevel and it cut like a champ ever after. I even put a very slight micro-bevel on single bevel shig's....the chip you don't get is one you don't have to repair.


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## Mute-on (Mar 12, 2016)

Smurfmacaw said:


> My recommendation is to put a microbevel on it before you use it. It's been my experience that the oob edge is very delicate and "chippy". I've been told that they are that way intentionally and the maker expects the new owner to put the "working" edge on the knife. I used my kitaeji nakiri straight out of the box and after one prep session it looked like a razor saw under the loupe. Two minutes on the stones and a proper micro-bevel and it cut like a champ ever after. I even put a very slight micro-bevel on single bevel shig's....the chip you don't get is one you don't have to repair.



+1. All my Ku Shigs have behaved exactly like this. 

However, after cleaning up the edge on a 5k/Takashima, they've been rock solid


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## robzilla (Mar 13, 2016)

My KU Shig nakiri that I bought from Buttermilk last September was very chippy, and after Sam stropped it for two minutes, it has been problem free.


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## aboynamedsuita (Mar 13, 2016)

I have a 5.5sun shig KU nakiri and have used it on my hinoki board without problems and no microbevel. Only chip was when I dropped it and took out a 10mm wide x 1.5-2mm chip at the tip


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## rj_1 (Mar 22, 2016)

Asteger said:


> Could be. I imagine there's also the idea that if too thick, that can be fixed whereas if too thin then there's more of a problem, according to the buyer's tastes. On the other hand, maybe us buyers are being given more trust than we deserve? If this is the case, then I'm not sure how much the trust is warranted.



Thanks...that makes sense. Actually, as I've started thinning it a bit, I think the extra thickness might actually be a positive, so I don't end up screwing it up.


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## rj_1 (Mar 22, 2016)

I thought I'd update this now that I've used the knife for a couple weeks.

First, even with the ootb edge, it performed great in actual use. Goes to show that I should reserve judgement until I've actually used a knife for a while...not just after a few test cuts. It did wedge a bit, but nothing that really slowed me down. With everything else, it was fantastic.

But yeah...microchips. Not too bad...but definitely there. I've now put my own edge on, including a microbevel. I also did some pretty minor thinning (no lower that 800 grit). And it's even better now! Thanks for the microbevel advice.

The only thing I've noticed is the stiction on potatoes is a bit worse now than with the OOTB edge. Any thoughts to why? Could it be the difference between the natural stone finish and mine (Rika 5k)?

Otherwise, the knife is here to stay. I can't really describe it...but there's something about the way it feels when it cuts. It's very different than anything else I've used, in a great way.


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## Smurfmacaw (Mar 22, 2016)

Wedging was not my experience. I gave a couple to my youngest daughter who shows an interest in cooking professionally. Will they cut a two inch diameter carrot without a crack....maybe not but they still perform really well....maybe not as well as the kitaeji....not sure if the grind is slightly different or not but my kitaeji nakiri would hold it's own against any other knife (maybe I got lucky).

My recommendation would be to put a micro-bevel on it right out of the box. My understanding, from more knowledgable members here, is that the initial edge is VERY fragile with the expectation that the owner will put his/her own edge on it to suit them. The out of the box edge is very chippy and will develop micro-chips really fast (first use....ask me how I know). Micro-bevel will solve that completely. Jon Broida has a video on micro-bevels which shows just how easy it is.


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## mikedtran (Mar 23, 2016)

On the grind point I just took a look at both my Kitaejis and KU Shigs and both of them have very similar grinds.

Both have:
-Pronounced S-grind on the right hand side
-Subtle S-grind on the left hand side

Difference:
-KU are noticeable heavier knives and hence carry a bit more size down the blade

Oddity:
-My KU Nakiri has a grind that is convex then hallow, then it convex it again. This means the spine is not the thickest part of the knife since it tapers down and the two high points are mid blade. Has anyone else seen this? I don't know if this is consistent or not.

On cutting, it doesn't fall through like a laser but with even mild push cutting these is very minimal to no cracking/wedging.


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