# STOCKS (high risk high return??)



## amithrain (Dec 13, 2020)

This is probably a terrible place to ask because a KKFer’s first instinct is to buy knives with every dollar earned, but here we go:
So I earned a couple hundred dollars that I don’t know how to spend. I’ve pretty much decided to invest it for the experience, because I’ve never done so before. Of course, the safest thing to do is s&p 500 index funds, etc etc, but that’s slow and I kind of want to have some fun. Does anyone know any high risk high return stocks to invest in? Alternatively, any advice/discussion on stocks and investing is very welcome.


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## rickbern (Dec 13, 2020)

NYSE: NCLH

You may be late to the party, but their customer base is getting vaccinated first


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## rickbern (Dec 13, 2020)

I’d say the whole leisure travel sector may bounce back quickly. Business travel, not so much. 

I have no specific expertise, I’m just trying to point you in a direction to start thinking.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 13, 2020)

what SPY aint slow it's like 7% per year.

listen if you think you can beat the index more power to you. I have an advanced degree in econ and work in ML and I took one look at the problem space and just bought SPY. not worth the effort.

plus once upon a time I used to play a couple of betting games (poker, mahjong, etc) and I got pretty into the math behind the betting specifically and my advice is that eventually greed will catch up to you. if you want to be successful in the long term you need to be patient and you need capital. that's it. there's no get rich quick scheme that's reliable enough to objectively pursue.

if you want to gamble in a high risk fashion you can do option trading and you can sit at your computer all day working them but personally I get paid a lot more to do a normal job and put the money in an index.

if you really want to make money and have time to spare to gamble write something that tracks congressional disclosures. not political. both parties. if they buy, you buy. if they sell, you sell. at least then you dont have to slave away at your computer

or just do some actual gambling. at least then you know where you stand.


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## WildBoar (Dec 13, 2020)

US stock market is at/ near all-time highs. So not a great time to jump in. But there are always some bargains around if you (or broker) poke around enough. The travel/ hospitality sectors have bounced back a lot, but there are still a couple string names out there that are a little beat up. I actually rotated out of tech stocks over the last 2 months and into a couple airlines, a cruise line and a hotel. I had done very well with Microsoft and crApple and to a degree Facebook, over the last year so I sold those to get the new batch of stocks. You might want to consider Moderna, although it has already doubled over the last few weeks. But their vaccine is the first of a series of drugs that are in their development pipeline; they should have a good future. It's all a gamble to a certain extent though. Jumping in at highs decreases your chances for a good score, and sets you up better for a loss in a pullback.


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## valgard (Dec 13, 2020)

deleted


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## Nagakin (Dec 14, 2020)

If you're looking for high risk r/wallstreetbets is it. I'm too wimpy to play like they do, but I've made good money trading some of their picks. It's also a place of horror stories...as stated above greed can catch anyone.


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## alterwisser (Dec 14, 2020)

If you want the thrill, just buy some super obscure cryptos.
99.9% you’re losing all your money, but that 0.1% could make you a lot of money.

but I agree with what has been said above: Daytrading is like gambling and the pros use super fast computers and algorithms that skew the game anyway.

with stock markets at all time highs you need to look at some beaten down stocks. Travel will be consolidated and the surviving ones might thrive, yes. Oil stocks already came back a bit and once we have the vaccine going they could easily double ... and there’s less chance they go bankrupt (at least not the large ones). But it’s guess work, the stock market is detached from the economy.


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## damiano (Dec 14, 2020)

If you want to invest for the experience then this is what I'd do. 

Say you have 300 dollars. Use 100 to buy the S&P500 through an index fund, use 100 dollar to either buy an outright bond (probably not possible) or a bond fund/index for example US aggregate bond, and then 100 dollar to buy any single stock you fancy. 

This way you will learn about things like bid offer spreads, how the process of buying and selling works, how diversification works, which asset managers are out there. And so on. This will help throughout your life, and especially when you have more money to invest. 

Full disclaimer: kkf is not a good place to ask for investment advice. That said, it's kinda my job..


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## deskjockey (Dec 14, 2020)

In the first part of the year, I poured money in. Marathon Oil has been my big winner but, I have consumer staple type stocks that are giving it a good run at topping the Oil companies.

I was invested in the cruise lines but, they have been basically flat. I'm not convinced people want to sail on the USS PETRI DISH! 

Everyone has to start somewhere and like you, I started really small with individual stocks mainly. I quickly found it wasn't worth the effort to track them and it wasn't very fun either.

Historically, index funds are a good choice for a lot of people. Contrarian funds can work if you pick correctly but, you can also lose big time too. Don't get me started on options trading and similar leveraged and risky bets.

Gold stocks are where I would look for a 'flyer' where total loss of investment was acceptable for something different. You could also buy ~10oz of Silver.


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## MoabDave (Dec 14, 2020)

Over 25 years, I learned one thing
NEVER SELL.
I have many anecdotes, but here's 3 that sum it up.
I bought Netflix at 16 dollars, sold at 168, and thought I was really smart.
I put about 5000 each into MVIS (with dilution etc, it's worth about 900 now) and EXAS back in 2004, and recently sold half my EXAS because retirement is looming and figured ok, now I can sell, time to get conservative.
The math shows holding pays off long term. 
Ok, one more- ATVI, for years and years was stuck at 10 to 16$ I believed in video games though I don't really play myself. Recently I bought more because now I REALLY believe in online games.

Also, what Wanamhong said is perfect.
I'm assuming this money is in a retirement account, otherwise capital gains in index funds can be a pain.


For ideas on disruptive stocks, look into ARK invest.
Short term stocks (less than 5 years in my opinion)are gambling.
Remember, never sell, you can only lose everything once, but winning can be forever. So much winning$$$.


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## WildBoar (Dec 14, 2020)

Heh, I had MCI/ Worldcom, Wilson Sporting Goods and a couple others over the last 35+ years that counter the NEVER SELL advice. What if you had Blockbuster instead of Netflix? Or AOL?


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## tcmx3 (Dec 14, 2020)

one of the reasons I dont go for individuals is nothing is rational. 

NKLA not at zero despite being a literal fraudulent business under federal investigation and GM having to substantially change partnership because NKLA told them a truck rolling down a hill was driving (not a joke), TSLA being worth bazillions of dollars despite the fact that they are probably the jankiest "tech" company in the world that have no clue how to develop software (which is kind of important you know), AMZN is down from it's high despite being the literal best positioned company for the pandemic, etc.


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## Slim278 (Dec 14, 2020)

Knives can be a sound investment, kitchen or pocket. I have found firearms to be very sound investments. Quality firearms will hold or increase in value and are very easily liquidated.


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## deskjockey (Dec 14, 2020)

*Recognize a loser* before it hits rock bottom. *Don't wait and hope it comes back.* Sell it and move on. *50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.*

Case in point, I bought Boeing at $120 and sold it a bit above $180. Last time I checked it was around $150 thanks to the first flights of the 737 Max bumping it back up. Long term, vacation and business travel is down so, the demand for new passenger aircraft is low.

Boeing has a good military division but, under a Biden/Harris administration I don't expect it to take off based on previous Democratic administrations military spending history. Thus, I'm glad I'm out of Boeing and locked in my profits.

Is Marathon and Valero oil a good long term stock with Tesla and others bringing electric cars to market? Certainly not for me as a retirement stock, however it will be a long time before refining capacity declines. I'm up 50% to 80% in those stocks in the past year so, I've done really well with them so far but, their run is not over until the need for refined fuels diminishes.

I still have a hard time understand crypto-currencies without any intrinsic value. Sure, the USA is no longer on the gold standard but, it is backed by the good faith of the USA. If cryptocurrencies decline or fail, who do you turn to?


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## SHOWERDOOKIE (Dec 14, 2020)

Recently thought about trying to understand the stock market a little bit better, which I guess would really be try to understand it at all, but after this inspired me to do a little research I just feel more broke and stupid. Good luck to all of you brave souls


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## WildBoar (Dec 14, 2020)

Boeing was at $230 the other day.

FWIW I bought it at around $65 and sold it at around $325 (when it was on the way back down). It was a stock I always avoided, as I never liked cyclicals. But my broker talked me into it 6 or so years back.

When it dropped to around $120 I figured I would not jump back in, as I did not want to risk it unless it was below $100. It has bounced back pretty well from those lows, but I think it will be sideways for quite a while until airlines have enough $ to start ordering again.


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## nwshull (Dec 14, 2020)

I wouldn't say the Gold Standard does much at all, other than possibly keep the value of a currency artificially high, without much value, thereby shrinking exports and flexibility for monetary policy, neither great things. Gold, crypto, or real currency like the dollar, if the market loses a want for it you're screwed. Over the long run, real value is in goods and services produced by the economy. The dollars worth something because people want to buy goods and services which are valued in dollars. 

If you want this money to grow to its maximum potential over twenty years, statistically speaking you are best off buying a S&P mutual fund. If its just fun, then go for something crazy like SpaceEx. Idk, it really doesn't matter if you're going with bigger companies. Larger forces effect the economy. If the new Congress and Administration can get their act together and roll out the vaccines (with a couple more getting approved) effectively and pass some stimulus, the big companies will do the best of everyone and the stock market will go up a bit more before a correction. If there's gridlock on stimulus and the vaccine roll out doesn't go well, the Dow will crash 20k and everyone will get hit. If its somewhere in between as is likely, we'll have some middling result, where the larger companies will be more insulated from downward trends because of their presence overseas as well.


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## LostHighway (Dec 14, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> If you want the thrill, just buy some super obscure cryptos.
> 99.9% you’re losing all your money, but that 0.1% could make you a lot of money.
> 
> but I agree with what has been said above: Daytrading is like gambling and the pros use super fast computers and algorithms that skew the game anyway.
> ...



These are all good points. I might also add that for single stocks in addition to the matter of high frequency trading there is also almost certainly some degree of information asymmetry that does not favor the small investor. The NKLA example cited above by @tcmx3 or the now extinct theranos only serve to show that sometimes even the big players get gamed, market oversight and enforcement are fairly weak these days.


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## deskjockey (Dec 14, 2020)

WildBoar said:


> Boeing was at $230 the other day.
> ...



Wow! That's a big jump that I missed. To be honest, I'm a bit surprised it got that high but, Robinhood and other things have caused significant price spikes for reasons that defy normal market logic with some other stocks so I guess this isn't too far out of the norm.

Even if Boeing gets full 737 Max recertification all over the world, passenger loads are still pretty low and will likely stay that way for a good while. Airlines are already dumping big parts of their fleets to keep only the newest most efficient planes and in some cases consolidating on a single brand for easier and cheaper logistics for fleet support.


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## deskjockey (Dec 14, 2020)

SHOWERDOOKIE said:


> Recently thought about trying to understand the stock market a little bit better, which I guess would really be try to understand it at all, but after this inspired me to do a little research I just feel more broke and stupid. Good luck to all of you brave souls



A better strategy is to focus on something you know or have familiarity with. Most people can do well IF they stick to things they know whether they are a car mechanic, carpenter, software engineer, doctor, etc.

Farmers can do well with Ag related stocks. Nurses, Doctors, etc. can do really well with medical companies. Housewives can do really well with consumer staple companies (think laundry detergent, package foods, etc.), and so on. My mom worked at Macy's and made a lot of money on Macy's stock because she understood store traffic and cash register sales.

I bought AGCO on a flier thinking people will still need to eat so, farmers will need tractors and other equipment. AGCO has treated me much better than I expected. I live on a farm now and grew up on a farm in Oklahoma. The Oklahoma oil boom really opened my eyes to that market and, Marathon and Valero refineries are treating me well. The retail pump companies (gas stations) are doing okay but, aren't on fire like some other companies. I also knew oil exploration companies were way too risky for me. When they hit, they hit big but, most end in bankruptcy.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 15, 2020)

I've done well with Qualcomm bought last year.
Not taking profits they are a leader I think for years to come.

Just bought Vuzix (VUZI) digital glasses. It's cheap a bit of a gamble they supplied the military looking to branch in other sectors.


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## damiano (Dec 15, 2020)

I'm seeing some remarks about never selling single stocks versus holding on to losers. This is exactly why buying an index fund is such a good choice and imho preferable over buying single stocks.

An index fund will automatically make sure you will have increasing exposure to winners while reducing exposure to losing stocks. Buy an index fund and you will always be on top of any new technological innovation.

Investors often fall into behavioural traps, like selling stocks too soon or holding onto stocks for too long. Again, this is where an index fund helps as it will do this for you!


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## deskjockey (Dec 15, 2020)

Wahnamhong said:


> ...
> Investors often fall into behavioural traps, like selling stocks too soon or holding onto stocks for too long. Again, this is where an index fund helps as it will do this for you!



If my crystal ball wasn't so cloudy, I wouldn't have sold winners before they topped out and I definitely would have sold the losers sooner. Hindsight is always 20/20 and current market trends with new investors is definitely schewing long-held market beliefs. 

A lot of individual stocks have a Bitcoin feel regarding highs and lows with the volatility of big swings in short periods of time. This is a new level of price volatility for me and above historical norms in most cases.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 15, 2020)

Just paid taxes on regular IRA & combined it with my Roth. Now taxes are reasonable, there is now talk about doubling taxes in stock market.
Some act like the stock market is just for the rich. My 401 is in a good fund mostly in stocks. Was thinking of transferring it to IRA taking money out of it to pay taxes turn it into Roth. Who knows where taxes will be in future. Index fund for that account.


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## damiano (Dec 15, 2020)

deskjockey said:


> If my crystal ball wasn't so cloudy, I wouldn't have sold winners before they topped out and I definitely would have sold the losers sooner. Hindsight is always 20/20 and current market trends with new investors is definitely schewing long-held market beliefs.
> 
> A lot of individual stocks have a Bitcoin feel regarding highs and lows with the volatility of big swings in short periods of time. This is a new level of price volatility for me and above historical norms in most cases.


I used to work with some traders and they taught me to use price targets and stop loss levels. At the moment you are buying a stock you should already know at which price you will be selling (part of) it if the stock price climbs to a certain level. 

Likewise you should already know at which price you will cut your losses once the price is falling (stop loss). 

The more you automate your buying and selling, and hence cut out your instincts, the better your results will be. While my proposed solution won't help with extreme volatility it's still a good approach imho.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 15, 2020)

deskjockey said:


> A better strategy is to focus on something you know or have familiarity with. Most people can do well IF they stick to things they know whether they are a car mechanic, carpenter, software engineer, doctor, etc.
> 
> Farmers can do well with Ag related stocks. Nurses, Doctors, etc. can do really well with medical companies. Housewives can do really well with consumer staple companies (think laundry detergent, package foods, etc.), and so on. My mom worked at Macy's and made a lot of money on Macy's stock because she understood store traffic and cash register sales.
> 
> I bought AGCO on a flier thinking people will still need to eat so, farmers will need tractors and other equipment. AGCO has treated me much better than I expected. I live on a farm now and grew up on a farm in Oklahoma. The Oklahoma oil boom really opened my eyes to that market and, Marathon and Valero refineries are treating me well. The retail pump companies (gas stations) are doing okay but, aren't on fire like some other companies. I also knew oil exploration companies were way too risky for me. When they hit, they hit big but, most end in bankruptcy.



strong disagree.

being an expert at one thing doesn't make you an expert at another, even if they _seem_ related if you squint hard enough. a stock of a thing is not the same as the thing itself.

if you're retired and sit around all day doing it, like my grandfather did for the last 40 years of his life, sure. but even then if you really want to know why he was successful it's because his dad was rich, too, and his dad, and his dad, and his dad...


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## deskjockey (Dec 15, 2020)

tcmx3 said:


> strong disagree.
> 
> being an expert at one thing doesn't make you an expert at another, even if they _seem_ related if you squint hard enough. a stock of a thing is not the same as the thing itself.
> 
> if you're retired and sit around all day doing it, like my grandfather did for the last 40 years of his life, sure. but even then if you really want to know why he was successful it's because his dad was rich, too, and his dad, and his dad, and his dad...



What do I know about the GAP or Nordstrom's? For me, it would be all about blind education. With my experiences in life, I start from a much stronger position of strength to study stocks in question.

As an example: Children are often good at spotting upcoming trends because they know what their peers are doing and what they want. Perfect, No! Better than blind study, Yes! YMMV.

My mother was NOT wealthy. What she was, was observant. She saw trends on the sales floor management in their Ivory towers never saw. For someone of modest means, she did well.

On the flip side, I do see a lot of people who think they know more than they really do JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE MONEY! Money helps but, it doesn't solve all problems either. A rare few don't follow common advice and strike it rich but, we generally never hear about all the failed attempts that ended in failure. Having unique insight definitely helps a lot of people become successful though!


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## deskjockey (Dec 15, 2020)

Wahnamhong said:


> I used to work with some traders and they taught me to use price targets and stop loss levels. At the moment you are buying a stock you should already know at which price you will be selling (part of) it if the stock price climbs to a certain level.
> 
> Likewise you should already know at which price you will cut your losses once the price is falling (stop loss).
> 
> The more you automate your buying and selling, and hence cut out your instincts, the better your results will be. While my proposed solution won't help with extreme volatility it's still a good approach imho.



Yes, I use limit orders to limit losses and it also tends to limit profits as well. On the flip side, I would rather have 80% of something versus 100% of very little or nothing.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 15, 2020)

one of my favorite things is watching places like Hindenburg absolutely demolish flavor-of-the-month stocks whose entire business model is a sham:




deskjockey said:


> What do I know about the GAP or Nordstrom's? For me, it would be all about blind education. With my experiences in life, I start from a much stronger position of strength to study stocks in question.
> 
> As an example: Children are often good at spotting upcoming trends because they know what their peers are doing and what they want. Perfect, No! Better than blind study, Yes! YMMV.
> 
> ...



everyone's free to believe what they want. from my perspective you've built up a lot of what I would characterize as a personal mythology, which is unimpressive to me (and by that I mean as an investment strategy, not your life story). normally this is whatever but this thread is someone asking us for advice on how to spend money so I feel compelled to point out that I find your strategy unlikely to be good advice, and as such I 100% stand by my disagreement with the strategy you laid out in post 21.


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## deskjockey (Dec 15, 2020)

tcmx3 said:


> one of my favorite things is watching places like Hindenburg absolutely demolish flavor-of-the-month stocks whose entire business model is a sham:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No problem, I get where you are coming from. Respectful disagreement can be enlightening to one or both parties. I'm not perfect so I'm not always right however, my investment strategy has worked out pretty well so far. I have coworkers who are desperate now that have essentially thrown away their nest egg in the hopes of making up for the lack of consistent funding of a retirement plan or 401K.

One coworker was preparing for retirement and went to Human Resources to discuss his pension and 401K options. Apparently, a ~$35K 401K account and a small pension were not enough for a comfortable retirement with two kids still living at home! He became desperate and ended up investing in an EMU farm! This individual had zero experience with farming or ranching and had a 'brown thumb'. The schyster that convinced him to invest in the EMU farm convinced him EMU oil for cosmetics was going to be a 'fountain of youth' and consumer demand for EMU meat was very high. Needless to say, this did not work out for him.

I had another coworker friend that earned well into the 6 figure range but, he didn't even contribute matching funds into his 401K. He leased $100K+ cars and had all the good toys in his 4200 square foot home. Did I mention he was a bachelor with no kids? For such a smart guy, his views on retirement investing were terrible IMHO.

While in the race between the tortoise and the hare, generally the tortoise comes out ahead but, a few hares win the lottery and retire well. I guess I'm too risk-averse for the hare approach. I will counter that by saying in my youth, I invested a lot more aggressively because I had time on my side to recover from setbacks.

For the OP, the approach he suggested to me is too much like gambling. I don't gamble with anything of real value or that I care about. What others choose to do is up to them. Whether $300 is significant or a night out for the OP also is a factor to consider. My sister doesn't have a problem dumping 100's of dollars at a casino and another coworker thought nothing of a $600 bar bill. If we are big enough to earn it, we are all big enough to spend it. Whether any else agrees with our personal choices are not.

Best Regards,
Sid


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## WildBoar (Dec 15, 2020)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Some act like the stock market is just for the rich.


Yeah, I've never understood that. It is another tool to help building wealth over time. I started buying stocks when I was a poor college student. A couple hundred $ here and there. The longer your investment horizon the better you will fare over time based on a small initial investment. And definitely an S&P fund to get your investment career going.


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## WildBoar (Dec 15, 2020)

deskjockey said:


> I had another coworker friend that earned well into the 6 figure range but, he didn't even contribute matching funds into his 401K. He leased $100K+ cars and had all the good toys in his 4200 square foot home. Did I mention he was a bachelor with no kids? For such a smart guy, his views on retirement investing were terrible IMHO.


One of the best ways to accumulate funds to invest for the long-term is to avoid paying a lot for your car, and once you have a car keep it for as long as you can. Next to a housing, a car is by far the biggest expense for many once you factor in payment, insurance, gas, garaging, etc.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 15, 2020)

if you're not rich you probably arent paying enough in capital gains tax to have a legitimate complaint, anyway, and if you are you can foot the bill.

the stock market still pays so idc; Im 100x saltier about the interest rate on student loans that has legitimately zero reason to exist. not that I really care personally it's just offensive that it's 28 times the rate the feds loan money to banks for stupid stuff.



WildBoar said:


> One of the best ways to accumulate funds to invest for the long-term is to avoid paying a lot for your car, and once you have a car keep it for as long as you can. Next to a housing, a car is by far the biggest expense for many once you factor in payment, insurance, gas, garaging, etc.



I mean you can only take misery so far. you spend a ton of time in your car, and I feel like 3/4 of personal finance advice like this is just beating up on people who were never going to have that much money to begin with. maybe that's not your intention but Im not very sympathetic to this line of thinking.

I drive an M4 and still manage to contribute thousands of dollars a month to my personal SPY slush fund. I dont see how someone who has a 200 payment vs a 300 payment will ever catch up, ever. also newer cars are less likely to break, can be fixed under warranty, etc. it's not cut and dry, IMO


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## WildBoar (Dec 15, 2020)

Eh, I'm talking about people who finance $50k plus vehicles that bleed them dry instead of a $25k vehicle. Besides the higher costs there is usually higher insurance, higher person property tax, more $ for premium fuel, etc. it's about starting to plan for/ work for your future sooner rather than later. And you will wind up that much better off down the road for getting into luxury purchases, etc. because you will be on more solid financial footing.

I guess for me stayed reasonable when I bought a new car after college, and for the next 10 years I really didn't spend money on much other then a place to live and for beer. At 30 I was in a much better financial position than most of my friends, and I was able to spring for a fun second car, etc. 'Course I still kept spending under pretty good control until I found ITK on Blade Forums; thankfully I was in my mid-40s by then.

Is your point that it is better not to invest anything if you don't have much money? If so, my point it sacrifice a little more for a year or two and put however many hundreds of dollars you can afford into an index fund and let it start working for you.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 15, 2020)

WildBoar said:


> Is your point that it is better not to invest anything if you don't have much money? If so, my point it sacrifice a little more for a year or two and put however many hundreds of dollars you can afford into an index fund and let it start working for you.



no, if you dont have much and can invest some of it, I think that's good.

but Im sympathetic that most people are underwater from day zero, and that no matter how hard they work, theyll never be able to catch up to people like me who can buy an entire luxury sports car's worth of index funds in a year and still have money for toys for reasons I think largely boil down to "my parents had a lot of money, too". if those folks want to get a nice car, who am I to criticize that behavior? most of them havent worked any less hard than me, plus the opportunity cost of the money they could have put in stocks might account to 10 or 20k, which isnt a ton over 30 years.

frankly though I dont personally know any poor people taking out 50k car loans and Im skeptical that banks would even give them that money right now but I suppose I dont know. you need pretty good credit to get that kind of loan dont you? that's based on prior history, income, etc. 

I think that instead of being focused on what people are buying instead of stocks, it's better to talk about what stocks could do for them in general, though I suspect if too much more of the 60% of american who dont own stocks started to buy them, this low capital gains rate that seems to matter to folks would go up.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 15, 2020)

Right now capital gains & esp. paying taxes to turn accounts into Roth's is cheap. 60,000 just 6,000 fed tax. That's why I did it. Also when I die beneficiary's can take out money tax free. 

Think about it Amazon, EBay no tax before now 4.7 Hi. State tax. Not saying it's bad considering how much they sell.

Don't think reasonable taxes in market are here to stay.


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## WildBoar (Dec 15, 2020)

tcmx3 said:


> I think that instead of being focused on what people are buying instead of stocks, it's better to talk about what stocks could do for them in general,


Uhm yeah, that was the point initially.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 15, 2020)

WildBoar said:


> Uhm yeah, that was the point initially.



certainly, and I think I may have assumed a bit too much wrt your post; afterall so many personal finance tips and tricks read overly miserly to me.

so my bad on that one.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 16, 2020)

What about selling half a winning trade? Free up money for other trades & don't miss upside of remaining shares. I have sold stocks that have doubled only to see huge upside over time. You never know upside until you wish you never sold. 

This market has hit all time highs. Economy is still in rough shape in many sectors because of covid virus.


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## MoabDave (Dec 16, 2020)

Keith Sinclair said:


> What about selling half a winning trade? Free up money for other trades & don't miss upside of remaining shares.


I did that early on when I was getting started and didn't have much money.
But the point I made earlier which was actually supported by comments pointing out how I was wrong (let's see if I can get this right- I said NEVER SELL, you can only lose everything once, but winning goes on forever) I was then given a few examples of losing stocks that should have been sold. But that's my point, if it's losing its losing, who cares? Sometimes they turn around. I learned this the hard way with Mr Softy (MSFT) and many many others before I stopped trying to buy low and sell high. Timing the market is a losing proposition. Buy and wait till you get close to retirement. About the 10th time I missed out on crazy upside by selling too early (always at a 50% gain or more) I realized that holding on to whatever for at least the next 10 years would be better. 
Sure, at some point you can sell the worst dogs, and buy a share of MMM for what you get, but the list of crazy winners I sold too early is too sickening for me to recall.

The comments about getting your emotions out of your buying and selling are also spot on. 

But remember, DON'T TAKE STOCK ADVICE FROM A KNIFE FORUM. Or do, whatevs.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 16, 2020)

I'm sure many have sold at target say double & sorry they did.

I've always liked beer. Tsingtao beer was owned by Tsui family was confiscated (stolen) by communist 1949. 

Co. Privatized early 1990's. That's when some guy had newsletter said buy. Got it really cheap bought 5,000 worth. Less than one dollar a share. Tripled in no time sold it. Think it's around 80 dollars a share now China's #1 export beer & second best seller in China. Chinese like to drink beer.


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## Bodine (Dec 16, 2020)

Been doing well with tcnnf, a local company owned by friends,


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 16, 2020)

People like to smoke weed too


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## M1k3 (Dec 16, 2020)

Keith Sinclair said:


> People like to smoke weed too


Pakalolo!


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## AT5760 (Dec 16, 2020)

This thread reminds me why I’m happy with TDFs.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 16, 2020)

MoabDave said:


> But remember, DON'T TAKE STOCK ADVICE FROM A KNIFE FORUM. Or do, whatevs.



that's fair, afterall one of this forum's favourite things is stock removal D:


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## ashy2classy (Dec 16, 2020)

ARKK - buy and keep buying dips. Cathie Wood is a genius. It's her premier fund and she manages it daily. 5-year avg returns of 39%.
SE - Amazon of Singapore. This one is another great LT hold.
PLTR - evil data company but should be good LT.

SQ, SHOP, NET and other internet/tech service names should continue to do well even after the vaccine. FAANG should lead the markets up in the ST, IMO.

In general, compounding gains by continuing to add to solid companies or SPY itself should be a good LT strategy.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 16, 2020)

ashy2classy said:


> ARKK - buy and keep buying dips. Cathie Wood is a genius. It's her premier fund and she manages it daily. 5-year avg returns of 39%.
> SE - Amazon of Singapore. This one is another great LT hold.
> PLTR - evil data company but should be good LT.
> 
> ...



you can tell PLTR is evil because their awful MLaaS platform is even more garbage than IBM's, and if there's one thing about evil in real life, it's that it's often perpetrated by some dumb mother****ers

in fact given the way stocks go you should bet on PLTR because having awful products, questionable ethics and doing vaguely "AI" things is guaranteed to pay in 2020

full disclosure though I did make several hundred dollars off their IPO that I gave to a charity I thought PLTR's founder would hate.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 16, 2020)

honestly guys I dont think every company is bad but when I think about actual good companies I would invest in because I have direct knowledge of how awesome they are they're always companies like the Suhr Guitar Company, Leica Camera AG, just the Lange part of CFR, etc. and I cant do anything with that so I just buy SPY for reasons @Wahnamhong already explained better than I can


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## SHOWERDOOKIE (Dec 18, 2020)

So I saw the post that said don’t take financial advice from a knife forum but every forum my peers have suggested was just full of ********. Any suggestions for reading material/informative video series for someone starting out? Wanting to learn and plan to reinvest biweekly or monthly. Sorry to OP for thread jacking but the only adult in my life who could offer advice said “One word: Tesla.” Which didn’t sound bad just uninformed I guess. Anyways thanks to all who have and are willing to offer a little insight


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## tcmx3 (Dec 18, 2020)

SHOWERDOOKIE said:


> So I saw the post that said don’t take financial advice from a knife forum but every forum my peers have suggested was just full of ********. Any suggestions for reading material/informative video series for someone starting out? Wanting to learn and plan to reinvest biweekly or monthly. Sorry to OP for thread jacking but the only adult in my life who could offer advice said “One word: Tesla.” Which didn’t sound bad just uninformed I guess. Anyways thanks to all who have and are willing to offer a little insight



set aside some money and talk to a professional, or buy index funds.

it's like a tax accountant; you can posture and speculate all you want but at the end of the day when it's your money on the line, trust a professional.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 18, 2020)

Haven't traded for years working two jobs. Now have plenty time. Bought a couple stocks last year doing well.

Want to get back into it. Reading stock picking sites, think a lot is a bunch of bull. You get in cheap then they try to lure you in to pay more money for special picks. When I research some picks don't even have pe ratios or much earnings.

Thinking of some leaders in green stocks in China & US. New administration planning big spending alternative energy. 

Also beaten down sectors think people will be chomping at the bit to get out & do things after a year of staying at home. Other people thinking same thing some rebound already.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 18, 2020)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Haven't traded for years working two jobs. Now have plenty time. Bought a couple stocks last year doing well.
> 
> Want to get back into it. Reading stock picking sites, think a lot is a bunch of bull. You get in cheap then they try to lure you in to pay more money for special picks. When I research some picks don't even have pe ratios or much earnings.
> 
> ...



agree on everything except green stocks, personally.

I feel like if you wanted to make money on green energy you would go to a betting site and put money on the side of _no meaningful legislation will be enacted in the next four years_

I cant really elaborate without going into not only politics but an absolute screed about how much I hate politics in America. but yeah personally that's why I have just held on SPY instead of taking any more committal positions like green sector, shorting tech, etc.; my personal assumption is that literally nothing will actually happen in the next 4 years of note & Ive already started moving in that direction with my assets.

but yeah overall I think this is the right perspective


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## 9mmbhp (Dec 18, 2020)

SHOWERDOOKIE said:


> So I saw the post that said don’t take financial advice from a knife forum but every forum my peers have suggested was just full of ********. Any suggestions for reading material/informative video series for someone starting out? Wanting to learn and plan to reinvest biweekly or monthly.







__





Getting started - Bogleheads







www.bogleheads.org


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## lemeneid (Dec 18, 2020)

amithrain said:


> This is probably a terrible place to ask because a KKFer’s first instinct is to buy knives with every dollar earned, but here we go:
> So I earned a couple hundred dollars that I don’t know how to spend. I’ve pretty much decided to invest it for the experience, because I’ve never done so before. Of course, the safest thing to do is s&p 500 index funds, etc etc, but that’s slow and I kind of want to have some fun. Does anyone know any high risk high return stocks to invest in? Alternatively, any advice/discussion on stocks and investing is very welcome.


If you are looking at high risk, high return, it’s Bitcoin.

If it’s something more legal you’re looking at, try looking at tech stocks like Tesla or Zoom. In my opinion, totally overvalued now, but still projected to climb higher.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 19, 2020)

Chinese have numerous electric car companies. Even GM are ramping up electric cars. It has PE ratio of 7.2. Tesla is way over priced & will get more competition in future. 

Traditional energy stocks are out of favor some real value there. Airlines too. People will be flying again on jet fuel for many decades.

If history is key to next 4 years than alternative energy will hardly make a dent in overall energy.

Still have a couple well valued green stocks chinese co. largest producer of high purity 
polysilicon for solar panels.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 19, 2020)

my favorite thing about owning Tesla stocks is when the dumbass who owns the company tweets something against SEC regs and I get to retire a year later 

please Daimler AG R&D announce your electric tech already Im so tired of having to park next to these overpriced economy cars bolted to a farting tablet in the work parking lot already. and where's Peter Thiel to finish the job he started? dude needs to get on one of his planes and teach Elon one last lesson.

real talk though if you want an undervalued company IMO AMD-ATI is pretty nice they make good products and they're coming out of a slump pretty strong. NVIDIA solid too just all around amazing company staffed by brilliant and nice human beings. Intel I think is at the peak and will likely go down as ARM ML inference performance is way better than x86-64 and whether it's actually a good idea or not on-device ML is going to be a big part of the future also IMO. ARM partnership with APPL is a bigger deal than most people think outside of industry, maybe even as big a deal as the tech pundits think lol

I actually agree with @Keith Sinclair on betting on Chinese elec car / green companies. CCP is mobilizing to do what the US did in the 70s to clean up their air, except they can do so unilaterally. I think if you had a range of positions, you'd likely end up making a lot of money even if some of them straight up tanked.


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## damiano (Dec 19, 2020)

SHOWERDOOKIE said:


> So I saw the post that said don’t take financial advice from a knife forum but every forum my peers have suggested was just full of ********. Any suggestions for reading material/informative video series for someone starting out? Wanting to learn and plan to reinvest biweekly or monthly. Sorry to OP for thread jacking but the only adult in my life who could offer advice said “One word: Tesla.” Which didn’t sound bad just uninformed I guess. Anyways thanks to all who have and are willing to offer a little insight


Check out Larry Swedroe. He is a great starting point imho. You can find lots of free articles through google, and otherwise here is his amazon: Larry E. Swedroe

If you are more serious into investing, and have a lot of money to invest, the one book I most often use for my work is by David Swensen, e.g. Pioneering Portfolio Management.


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## Bill13 (Dec 19, 2020)

ISRG
EXEL
CRSP


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## bigthyme (Dec 19, 2020)

So much to consider before jumping in. First off, getting a financial consultant to figure out if investing in stock is even a good idea given your financial situation. Perhaps it may be better to invest in a home? Perhaps not. It all depends on your income, savings, and risk profile. You should also identify how much you’re looking to get in return from investing. It could be 5% it could be 15%; identifying this will help you and the consultant identify the best strategy for investing be it passive or active and short or long term. In any case, I always recommend doing as little as possible to start and tracking your returns diligently. Most of the time, I’d recommend mutual funds over individual stock to start and if applicable, using a Roth IRA as your primary investing account.


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## Bobby2shots (Dec 19, 2020)

amithrain said:


> This is probably a terrible place to ask because a KKFer’s first instinct is to buy knives with every dollar earned, but here we go:
> So I earned a couple hundred dollars that I don’t know how to spend. I’ve pretty much decided to invest it for the experience, because I’ve never done so before. Of course, the safest thing to do is s&p 500 index funds, etc etc, but that’s slow and I kind of want to have some fun. Does anyone know any high risk high return stocks to invest in? Alternatively, any advice/discussion on stocks and investing is very welcome.



A few decades ago, I walked into a financial planners' office and announced "Hi, my name is Bob, and I'm a complete financial illiterate". He smiled broadly, and said "wait a minute, I've got something for you". He went into an adjoining store-room, and re-emerged with a few copies of a book that he slid across the desk, and said "Here, start with this." That book,, written by David Chilton, was titled "The Wealthy Barber". That book changed my life.

A successful financial future is much like building a house; you've got to start with a good plan, based on a sound foundation, and religously adhere to the premise of "pay yourself FIRST. Information is your best friend, and unless you understand precisely why you're buying specific stocks, you're simply engaging in a crap-shoot. Get to know what a "business cycle" is,,,, and how successful investors make money when the markets are going down, as well as when they're going up. Be prepared to learn a lot about yourself too,,,, your tolerance to volatility,,,, your level of greed,, etc. Get to know when it's "*your* best time" to buy or sell,,,, and not to worry about catching a potential peak,,,, and,,,, don't ride your previous-favourite stock downhill, as it crashes to the bottom,,,, deperately clinging to the hope that "it *WILL*,,,,, it's *GOT TO* come back."

For a new-comer, picking stocks can be tricky, unless you fully understand that stock's position in the market, relative to its' competitors in the same segment. Ask yourself if you've got the proper tools and information-base to pick the "right" stocks in a particular segment, and be brutally honest with your self-assessment.

For now, I'd highly recommend that you read that book first, as a basis for getting you pointed in the right direction. That book will probably become a stepping-stone to other books, dealing specifically with the direction you'll want to take.

Good luck,,,, and above all, get started,,,,, time is your best friend in this game.


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## Keith Sinclair (Dec 19, 2020)

Just to get my feet wet bought two stocks 2019. Qualcomm at 52.00 now 147.42.

Apple 50.00 now 127.30

Still hold both positions think both will have good earnings with 5G. 

Now researching stocks others have picked.
Have quite a bit of cash sitting in my Roth missed the huge rally except with these two stocks. 401 in well performing stock mutual fund for now.

Going to gamble with international value leaders in sector with upside potential.
Hope to get a few off the radar before they get hot market. Mixed with value domestic out of favor. A couple beaten down energy stock with dividends.
If you think oil & gas are going to be hurt by windmills & solar panels dream on. We need both.


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## M1k3 (Dec 19, 2020)

Apple definitely seems like a long game pick. They are making their own processors. Qualcomm has some good and bad in their future. Apple bought Intel's mobile modem business. For now Apple is using Qualcomm. In the future, who knows.


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