# heat level on stainless fry pan



## chiffonodd (Feb 22, 2015)

Picked up an all-clad stainless fry pan on sale today. The SLT sales rep said not to crank the heat (gas range) above medium. Is she for real? Tried cooking tonight and maybe I was just impatient but pan was not hot enough to get a good sear, almost ruined the fish.

Do you guys limit your heat like that on stainless steel frying pans? Or is it just a matter of preheating first on a lower setting and then cranking it up? how worried should I be about warping?


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## JBroida (Feb 23, 2015)

hell no... honestly, most home kitchen ranges are a joke compared to what pros are used to, and we (they... i guess i stopped cooking professionally a while back) crank it up on the stoves for searing


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## chinacats (Feb 23, 2015)

from all-clad faq...

"If you have never cooked with All-Clad before, you may be surprised by how efficient it is. Start using your All-Clad on a low flame for all applications except boiling. Because our cookware is built to hold heat and distribute it well, you will find that low temperatures using All-Clad are comparable to medium to medium-high settings using other cookware brands. 
When preparing to sauté or fry, preheat your cookware a minute or two on a low setting. Test the heat by lightly tapping the top edge of your pan with your palm. If the pan feels warm to the touch you are ready to cook. Put cold oil in your preheated pan. This helps to form a natural barrier that prevents food from sticking. Now add your food. There should be a sizzling sound when your food touches the preheated pan, indicating that the browning or searing process has begun. Leave the food for approx 1 minute to sear  do not try to push it around the pan too soon otherwise the food may tear and then stick to the pan (see below  how do you prevent sticking). Medium to low heat is all you will need.

Often, after cooking, there are browned bits left on the pan. These are delicious when incorporated into a sauce-easily made by adding stock, wine, water or any combination of these, and simmering to reduce and concentrate the flavours."


Since they are oven-safe which I would think is a lot hotter I'm guessing they are just saying food will burn this way? 

Jon, I hear you but I've never cranked mine up with food--just liquid.


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## chiffonodd (Feb 23, 2015)

chinacats said:


> from all-clad faq...
> 
> "If you have never cooked with All-Clad before, you may be surprised by how efficient it is. Start using your All-Clad on a low flame for all applications except boiling. Because our cookware is built to hold heat and distribute it well, you will find that low temperatures using All-Clad are comparable to medium to medium-high settings using other cookware brands.
> When preparing to sauté or fry, preheat your cookware a minute or two on a low setting. Test the heat by lightly tapping the top edge of your pan with your palm. If the pan feels warm to the touch you are ready to cook. Put cold oil in your preheated pan. This helps to form a natural barrier that prevents food from sticking. Now add your food. There should be a sizzling sound when your food touches the preheated pan, indicating that the browning or searing process has begun. Leave the food for approx 1 minute to sear  do not try to push it around the pan too soon otherwise the food may tear and then stick to the pan (see below  how do you prevent sticking). Medium to low heat is all you will need.
> ...



Hmm that is basically what they told me at SLT and what I tried tonight with the sea bass. It just wasn't enough to get a good crust on the fish, which sucks because that damn fish is like $28 a pound 

The good news is that the pan deglazed super easy with wine and cleaned up like a freaking dream. The brushed finish is great and it is super light. I think this will be an awesome tool once I figure out the heat properly. I'm gonna crank it next time (after preheating on a lower setting). Time to see what this baby can do.


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## chiffonodd (Feb 23, 2015)

JBroida said:


> hell no... honestly, most home kitchen ranges are a joke compared to what pros are used to, and we (they... i guess i stopped cooking professionally a while back) crank it up on the stoves for searing



Jon thanks for weighing in, I was actually browsing JKI videos as you posted that. I appreciate the one where you talk about using a bit of introspection before buying a knife. There are some crazy awesome, super high end products on there that I'd love to dive into using, but I can't imagine that my skills and knowledge are commensurate to those knives. All in due time!

That being said I am still pouncing on a GG 240 when it's back in stock


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## Lizzardborn (Feb 23, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Since they are oven-safe which I would think is a lot hotter I'm guessing they are just saying food will burn this way?



Oven pales in comparison with what even a modest 3kw electric home stove burner will be able to do if we talk about heat (burn off completely cast iron seasoning) . But the oven heats everything in a pan. So you got parts of the pan heated in the oven that are not heated that much during stovetop use. Oven safe means just no plastic handles.


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## cheflivengood (Feb 23, 2015)

JBroida said:


> hell no... honestly, most home kitchen ranges are a joke compared to what pros are used to, and we (they... i guess i stopped cooking professionally a while back) crank it up on the stoves for searing



lus1: I had to cook with stainless all clad on fish station for years, my chef was anti carbon steel for fish. If the oil isn't smoking hot your fish is going to stick is a pretty good rule to live by ( you can always reduce or turn off your heat, but always start high). We also used big 15-16 inch all clads for searing Filet for big parties, when your searing 10 steaks in one pan and they have to look Michelin beautiful, your pan has to practically be on fire when they first go in ( turn the flame off when you put the steaks in then back on hi to stop a flare up). Never had a pan warp, just don't quench a 700f pan in a sink of water...that will do it.


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## toddnmd (Feb 23, 2015)

I have a 12" Cuisinart Multiclad pro skillet (poor man's All Clad). It came with similar directions--never use on high. After about six months, the bottom was warped. I sent it back and got a replacement. I always tried to be careful with the first one, and I'm being even more careful with this one. I have smaller skillets in this line, which haven't had any issues--I think the larger size may be more delicate.
I have a glass cooktop, and I think I remember seeing that they can reach temps of 1300 degrees, so the caution seems justified.


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## chiffonodd (Feb 23, 2015)

cheflivengood said:


> lus1: I had to cook with stainless all clad on fish station for years, my chef was anti carbon steel for fish. If the oil isn't smoking hot your fish is going to stick is a pretty good rule to live by ( you can always reduce or turn off your heat, but always start high). We also used big 15-16 inch all clads for searing Filet for big parties, when your searing 10 steaks in one pan and they have to look Michelin beautiful, your pan has to practically be on fire when they first go in ( turn the flame off when you put the steaks in then back on hi to stop a flare up). Never had a pan warp, just don't quench a 700f pan in a sink of water...that will do it.



So is the best technique to get the oil just to its smoke point, turn the heat off real quick to add the fish, then crank it back up to high?


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## cheflivengood (Feb 23, 2015)

chiffonodd said:


> So is the best technique to get the oil just to its smoke point, turn the heat off real quick to add the fish, then crank it back up to high?



It really depends on the fish. A thick piece of Skin off salmon for example should start at smoke point, don't just drop the fish in, place it gently in a circular motion, almost like your wiping the pan with it, this will promote the fish not to stick. then you could throw that pan in the oven letting the fish get good color and letting the pan cool down slightly, once it has good color take the pan out of the oven and return it to a med flame. Flip the fish and add a pad of soft butter(crush a piece of garlic or ginger and add it with a few pieces of thyme or rosmary, get as fancy as you like) baste the fish until its as done as you like it (med is my preference). 

Alright now say you have a lean skin on fish like bass. Lean fish take much longer to cook through so handle it as follows. start at smoke point using the "wiping" motion to make sure the skin is not sticking (if the skin is too wet it will stick easily so make sure it is very dry). cut the heat to med and press the fish down gently with your hand, you can feel the skin bubbling underneath, if you have used the appropriate amount of oil this is not too dangerous lol. Pressing the fish gently in the beginning ensures that the skin has the most contact with the pan, starting the cooking process evenly, once the bubbles settle down, "ride" it at a nice medium - med-low. if the fish is not too thick you can let it cook about 80% through this way(checking the skin for color and crispness) then flip and baste or flip and finish in a hot oven, whatever is your preference. 

And as always I will say that the best way to learn to cook fish is to do it thousands of times, but I hope this helps.


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## cheflivengood (Feb 23, 2015)

Letting something "ride" is a common term in a fine dinning kitchen that uses french eyes, or flat tops whatever you want to call them. Its a process that involves starting something at really high heat on a open flame burner, then transferring it to the edge of the flat-top where the heat is nice and even and med-low. this technique is useful when you have good "heads" or when you are aware of the meals progression. you know that the next ticket will be fired in 2 min so your are already cooking that tables fish very gently and slowly, letting it "ride" while your back is turned organizing tickets or something....once the ticket is fired flip, baste a few times and bring it to the pass for plating. when you have a 16 course menu and the fish takes 4 min to cook and all your tickets MUST be under 2 min, this technique becomes paramount.


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## chiffonodd (Feb 23, 2015)

cheflivengood said:


> It really depends on the fish. A thick piece of Skin off salmon for example should start at smoke point, don't just drop the fish in, place it gently in a circular motion, almost like your wiping the pan with it, this will promote the fish not to stick. then you could throw that pan in the oven letting the fish get good color and letting the pan cool down slightly, once it has good color take the pan out of the oven and return it to a med flame. Flip the fish and add a pad of soft butter(crush a piece of garlic or ginger and add it with a few pieces of thyme or rosmary, get as fancy as you like) baste the fish until its as done as you like it (med is my preference).
> 
> Alright now say you have a lean skin on fish like bass. Lean fish take much longer to cook through so handle it as follows. start at smoke point using the "wiping" motion to make sure the skin is not sticking (if the skin is too wet it will stick easily so make sure it is very dry). cut the heat to med and press the fish down gently with your hand, you can feel the skin bubbling underneath, if you have used the appropriate amount of oil this is not too dangerous lol. Pressing the fish gently in the beginning ensures that the skin has the most contact with the pan, starting the cooking process evenly, once the bubbles settle down, "ride" it at a nice medium - med-low. if the fish is not too thick you can let it cook about 80% through this way(checking the skin for color and crispness) then flip and baste or flip and finish in a hot oven, whatever is your preference.
> 
> And as always I will say that the best way to learn to cook fish is to do it thousands of times, but I hope this helps.



Awesome advice! Thanks so much. Just one question to clarify: when you talk about skin on bass, you're putting it in the pan skin side down first right? Seemed obvious from the description but wanted to make sure.


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## cheflivengood (Feb 23, 2015)

chiffonodd said:


> Awesome advice! Thanks so much. Just one question to clarify: when you talk about skin on bass, you're putting it in the pan skin side down first right? Seemed obvious from the description but wanted to make sure.



Yes Sir, oh and dont forget to season just before cooking


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## Adrian (Feb 23, 2015)

Excellent, insightful and spot on thread. Adrian


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## Salty dog (Feb 23, 2015)

chef is spot on. Although I've seen places that stretch the concept. Personally I'm a "pan on, crank heat" guy.


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## cheflivengood (Feb 23, 2015)

Salty dog said:


> chef is spot on. Although I've seen places that stretch the concept. Personally I'm a "pan on, crank heat" guy.



there are a 1000 ways to cook an egg, eh chef?


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## Mrmnms (Feb 23, 2015)

I never used stainless in a commercial kitchen. Curious what kind of pans Salty and Cheflivengood use in their kitchens.


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## cheflivengood (Feb 23, 2015)

Mrmnms said:


> I never used stainless in a commercial kitchen. Curious what kind of pans Salty and Cheflivengood use in their kitchens.



http://http://www.amazon.com/All-Clad-Stainless-Tri-Ply-Dishwasher-Cookware/dp/B004T6MSIS/ref=sr_1_2?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1424739154&sr=1-2&keywords=all+clad+ss+fry+pan

But these work just as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Vollrath-69810-Tribute-Natural-Finish/dp/B0001V3K5K/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1424739360&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=volrath+ss+fry+pan


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## chiffonodd (Feb 23, 2015)

cheflivengood said:


> http://http://www.amazon.com/All-Clad-Stainless-Tri-Ply-Dishwasher-Cookware/dp/B004T6MSIS/ref=sr_1_2?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1424739154&sr=1-2&keywords=all+clad+ss+fry+pan
> 
> But these work just as well:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Vollrath-69810-Tribute-Natural-Finish/dp/B0001V3K5K/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1424739360&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=volrath+ss+fry+pan



In case people are interested, you can snatch up one of those 12" all clads through SLT right now for $119. It comes with a lid. If you get it without a lid it is $154. Apparently they ordered a certain number of sets for a promotion and SLT is selling them together for a discount. They swear it is the same pan.


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## chinacats (Feb 23, 2015)

chiffonodd said:


> In case people are interested, you can snatch up one of those 12" all clads through SLT right now for $119. It comes with a lid. If you get it without a lid it is $154. Apparently they ordered a certain number of sets for a promotion and SLT is selling them together for a discount. They swear it is the same pan.



Cutlery and More has the same deal and additionally has the 10" with lid for $99. Great Deals, and yes they are the same pans. I believe an even better deal to be the 11" D5 with a domed lid for $149 here--my bad, that's non-stick but still a very nice deal.


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## daveb (Feb 23, 2015)

Damn I hate an All-CLad. Nothing special unless you're selling them. Not much if you're using them. Sux if you're cleaning them. BKF stinks. And how does this physics be damned thing work? "The All-Clad Nonstick Skillet is perfect for searing, browning and pan-frying everything from eggs to meats." 

Make mine a Viking or Vollrath. Or an old (made in France old) Cuisinart from before they targeted the target market.


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## chinacats (Feb 24, 2015)

I've grown accustomed to the bkf over the years:biggrin:...I do think I'm ready to try Viking for my next stainless.


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## EdipisReks (Feb 24, 2015)

chinacats said:


> I've grown accustomed to the bkf over the years:biggrin:...I do think I'm ready to try Viking for my next stainless.



I have Viking (and Demeyere, who makes Viking). It's very good, but so is All-Clad (I do prefer the original Master Chef line, but I have and use contemporary All-Clad). There does seem to be pronounced variation on thickness with All-Clad, depending on when it was made, which is something to watch out for, but I've seen brand new All-Clad that was quick thick. I mostly cook with copper (tinned or stainless lined, I'm happy with either) or carbon steel, though, if I can help it.


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## panda (Feb 24, 2015)

china, stick with vollrath carbon.


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## chinacats (Feb 24, 2015)

panda said:


> china, stick with vollrath carbon.



I've got a bunch of carbon (deBuyer), just trying to fill in a few gaps in stainless...I am tempted by the price of the Vollrath--how's their stainless?


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## JBroida (Feb 24, 2015)

i like it... been using it for years


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## panda (Feb 24, 2015)

theyre heavy but work consistently, not remarkable but always reliable. they do take a while to heat up though. they dont stick much at least.


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## daveb (Feb 24, 2015)

Was having a similar conversation yesterday and ran across this litle gem. 11 inch Vollrath Intrigue

http://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/Product_100589

And at 15% off an already good price.

http://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/cooking_kitchensupplies_1000148


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## boomchakabowwow (Feb 24, 2015)

i have two all clad pans. one is a sautepan and it is heavy..the outside looks almost like tarnished alum. inside slick SS. i also have a saucier. it is thinner. it doesnt feel "clad" it is as shiny on the outside as it is on the inside. i kinda hate this pan. i used it for polenta/grits or risotto only. with the polenta, i have to set the pot on a donut made of alum foil to really minimize scorching. and for a saucier pan, it is the worst pouring pot i own. it dribbles EVERYWHERE. almost like a joke/gag pot.

my friend gave me a skillet. it was the thin version. hated it. it would never trump my CI stuff, so i gave it away.

back on topic. i have put the spurs to the saute pan. high arse heat. it didnt warp.


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## cheflivengood (Feb 24, 2015)

chinacats said:


> I've got a bunch of carbon (deBuyer), just trying to fill in a few gaps in stainless...I am tempted by the price of the Vollrath--how's their stainless?



deBuyer carbon is my fav next to just an old cast iron, Vollrath is for real, for a good price


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## Mucho Bocho (Feb 24, 2015)

Timely topic. I've been looking for something stainless that I can bring to 500 no problem. I doubt that AC could stand up to this day in day out without warping. I decided to go with the Volrath Intrigue 9.4 and 11" fry's. They have 6.6mm stainless aluminum bottoms in solid SS well polished bowls with nice handles. 

I was also considering Viking Pro ($180)' mcook $99, de buyer SS $135 but I got these two Intrigue pans for $140 shipped. 

I think their even a little cheaper from the wasermans site DaveB mentioned. 

When they come in, I'll post my findings.


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## Mrmnms (Feb 24, 2015)

I confess I used aluminum pans in my restaurant kitchens for years, in addition to cast iron and carbon. Never stainless. I have a mixed bag at home. I don't treat my stainless All Clad pan and Evasee like my carbon or cast iron. I like them, but they will discolor and scorch if heated too aggressively. I do like the fond they produce with just slight less heat. my stove is 15,000 btu. Cant justify replacing them. After so many years, they're not pretty but they still do the job.


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## Mucho Bocho (Mar 2, 2015)

The Vollrath intrigue pans just came in and am I impressed. Built like a pretty tank, not quite as finished as an AC pan but they have more meat where it counts. The first thing I noticed is how roomy they are, especially compared to carbon Debuys. The 9.25" pan has the same bottom of the pan surface area as my 11" carbon Debuyer. 

Also the sides are quite low which should aid the convection and facilitate drying/dehydrating. The ring on the bottom certainly is over 6.0 mm of aluminum. The insides are mirror polished and he handles seem comfortable for both overhand and underhand use. Pan seemed well balanced on the burner too. 

I haven't used them yet so I'll post an update if their performance is anything short of excellent. 

I plan on using them for high heat searing <500 F and wanted an inert surface to cook on. Be good for browning beef and making taco meat, searing off meat then make an acidic pan sauces...


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## chiffonodd (Mar 2, 2015)

Mucho Bocho said:


> The Vollrath intrigue pans just came in and am I impressed. Built like a pretty tank, not quite as finished as an AC pan but they have more meat where it counts. The first thing I noticed is how roomy they are, especially compared to carbon Debuys. The 9.25" pan has the same bottom of the pan surface area as my 11" carbon Debuyer.
> 
> Also the sides are quite low which should aid the convection and facilitate drying/dehydrating. The ring on the bottom certainly is over 6.0 mm of aluminum. The insides are mirror polished and he handles seem comfortable for both overhand and underhand use. Pan seemed well balanced on the burner too.
> 
> ...



Do you think the vollrath ss will handle high heat better than the all-clad?


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## Mucho Bocho (Mar 6, 2015)

Wanted to provide update on these pans. Simply put, they're wonderful. I used them to sear of some roasts, fish and rendered bacon. Nothing stuck because I was able to get the pans over 450 (except when cooking bacon, which I start in a cold pan) and the held the heat for a long time once charged. They cook more more like cast iron than my carbon debyuers.

Another observation is that because these pans are NOT clad, the sides of the pan stay cooler, lesening that burned/baked on grease that is PIA to get off. I was able to get the bottom over 300 and the rim lip was still relatively cool. But the best thing is when done cooking, dump grease and just chuck them in dishwasher. They come out clean and back to new after a little barkeeps friend. 

So they're now my new "recommended pan." Even if the price was double, they still perform better than AC. I may have to get the larger and smaller Fry Pan now.

I'm very impressed.


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## Mrmnms (Mar 6, 2015)

Thanks Dennis. Now I have a Vollrath on the list. You broke my will!


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## daveb (Mar 6, 2015)

I think you should do a passaround :groucho:


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## chiffonodd (Mar 6, 2015)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Wanted to provide update on these pans. Simply put, they're wonderful. I used them to sear of some roasts, fish and rendered bacon. Nothing stuck because I was able to get the pans over 450 (except when cooking bacon, which I start in a cold pan) and the held the heat for a long time once charged. They cook more more like cast iron than my carbon debyuers.
> 
> Another observation is that because these pans are NOT clad, the sides of the pan stay cooler, lesening that burned/baked on grease that is PIA to get off. I was able to get the bottom over 300 and the rim lip was still relatively cool. But the best thing is when done cooking, dump grease and just chuck them in dishwasher. They come out clean and back to new after a little barkeeps friend.
> 
> ...



I ordered the 11" when the sale was posted here. Excited to confirm that it outperforms the AC.


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## strumke (Mar 7, 2015)

Bloomingdale's has the same $119 price on the 12" All-Clad (stainless + flat lid) with a $25 off coupon the lady at the register said was active now. Came out to ~$99 incl tax.


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