# Is 220 Pink Brick same as a 220 pink colored ceramic and JKI 220 and just as fast cutting?



## GeneH (Dec 17, 2016)

There you have it - I gott buy a waterstone to grind down bevels, messed up scandi grinds, rework old dirty carbon Ontario, etc. I figured out the whetstone I have worn down has deeper scratches than a 220 Shapton Glass, so any course waterstone will do, all it needs is to cut pretty fast on most common steels, nothing exotic, including 01 tool steel. I'll follow up with a 1000 grit stone for now.

What's the difference between these pink colored 220 grit stones, and what is a "ceramic" waterstone? Oh, and not set on a 220 if there is a 320 that takes steel off just as fast... (ya, I've been watching the videos and reading reviews, TMI - just need a push in the right direction)


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## labor of love (Dec 17, 2016)

So...you want something that cuts fast? And can also cover up scratches from a shapton 220? I'm confused. Cerax 320 or gesh 400 cut fast for their grit. Low grit auto sand paper (from like autozone) can cover deep scratch patterns.


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## GeneH (Dec 17, 2016)

Let me rephrase that: I am going to purchase a 220 or finer that cuts just about as fast but am confused between the different pink stones that are all 220 grit. Japan Woodworker describes theirs as ceramic, then there is the Imanishi ink brick, and Jon's (JKI) pink 220. So which 220 or 320 should I get to grind off a lot of steel?

The comments about the whetstone and shapton 220 were fluff / reference only.


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## daveb (Dec 17, 2016)

Like, like, like the JNS 300 for most everything low grit. The JKI 400 is a close 2nd for fixing chips but it wears pretty quick when used hard. Have the JKI 220 but just don't use it. Prob should.


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## Matus (Dec 18, 2016)

JNS300 is great stone, but not for serious thinning, not fast enough for that. I have bester 220 and my understanding is that it is similar to JKI 220. If you want anything considerably faster that does not dish you need to grab an Atoma 140 or the 3M diamond pads.

The Bester 220 dishes, but it is not as bad as I expected. Still - if you use it extensively you will need to flatten in-between.

JNS300 is really nice and would make a good step after Atoma 140 or Bester 220.

Gesshin 400 is a fast cutting stone, just not as fast as Bester 220 (as one would expect).


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## Lars (Dec 18, 2016)

How does the Bester 220 behave, when you lay into it? A nice thing about Bester 1200 is that you can really put some weight behind the blade when you use it..

Lars


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## GeneH (Dec 18, 2016)

daveb said:


> Like, like, like the JNS 300 for most everything low grit. The JKI 400 is a close 2nd for fixing chips but it wears pretty quick when used hard. Have the JKI 220 but just don't use it. Prob should.



Dave -I'm curious why you are not using your 220? And what is your opinion of speed and dishing of it?


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## GeneH (Dec 18, 2016)

Ah- just saw this - Imanishi makes the Bester 220 close to JKI 220 so all three are probably pretty close if I understand correctly. The good diamond plates are out of my price range.


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## chinacats (Dec 18, 2016)

GeneH said:


> Dave -I'm curious why you are not using your 220? And what is your opinion of speed and dishing of it?



Not Dave but, it's pretty fast, doesn't dish too quickly but will load up if you let it. Mine has a load of iron in it so it's pink and orange. I have the one from EE and *believe* they are all the same stone.

I use a 320 cerax for cleanup and just purchased a 150 grit for faster steel removal.


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## GeneH (Dec 19, 2016)

I talked to Jon at JKI today, (having been educated by this thread) and ordered his 220 grit pink stone. I'm (mentally) prepared to flatten it frequently, and am looking forward to seeing what a course waterstone is all about.


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## foody518 (Dec 20, 2016)

GeneH said:


> I talked to Jon at JKI today, (having been educated by this thread) and ordered his 220 grit pink stone. I'm (mentally) prepared to flatten it frequently, and am looking forward to seeing what a course waterstone is all about.



Loud, thirsty, and not that pleasant sounding, but I don't know if there's much of a way to get around that in this very coarse grit range. Definitely flatten before your finishing pass on repairs/thinning/bevel set (whatever you are using this for) if you've been using the stone for a while before that.


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## WingKKF (Dec 20, 2016)

If you are doing serious thinning and rebeveling, you will see the stone melt away right in front of your eyes. I have a JKI pink brick and I think the pink bricks are all similar Imanishis. I'm thinking about getting some cheap ass Harbor Freight belt sander to thin and repair my knives because grinding away even on a pink brick, takes too much time and put stress on my shoulders.


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## labor of love (Dec 20, 2016)

The one low grit I've been interested in trying but haven't gotten around to yet is the shapton glass 120. All stones with grit ratings in the 200s and lower will have rough feedback it inevitable. That's the price you pay for speed.


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## GeneH (Dec 20, 2016)

If it melts away fast enough I won't be bummed for having a huge stone just sitting around. &#9786;

I think you folks are right; Every place or forum I check all the pink 220 get the same comments about one mfg. Not just Internet, I know people. LOL

Besides what is the likelihood that multiple plants are turning out the same size, pink, 220 grit soaking stone?


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## Matus (Dec 20, 2016)

The option with a belt grinder is indeed there and yes, it can be MUCH faster (even a small 1x30"), but you need to be VERY careful as you can overheat the edge in a second or of course destroy it if you hand slips. I would say that you should have experience grinding bevels with a belt sander before you use one for thinning a knife (or get a few junk knives to train on).


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## GeneH (Dec 27, 2016)

On a very HAPPY NOTE - Jon had the stone arrive on Christmas Eve! Wow! He did not overstate how aggressive it is. It wore the edges off my new flattening ceramic tile lickety-split! :thumbsup: I'll use the 80 grit SiC power on the tile now. 

I am totally LOVING the 220 pink brick from JKI. That's the most fun I have had (limited experience) on a stone! I finished flattening the half-flat bevel on a weirdly ground custom 4" stainless hunting knife in very short order. Thinned one of my stainless chef's knife a bit, removing all the odd over or under grinds. Went after a thin carbon Forgecraft that I'm turning into a cheap slicer. Removed the hollow grind on an awful cheap knife for a friend, and put new bevels on 2 of her other of the same. 

(*I am never going to remove hollow grinds or reshape cheap stainless again. Once was fun and educational. Twice is stone/self abuse. The hunting knife had hollow grind front half and severe convex on the back half. That one I resorted to the Worksharp, and finished on the pink brick*)

The scratches on large flats are too deep to remove easily with a 1000 grit stone so I left those on my blades until I get something in between. No problem removing scratches on normal edge bevels with a 1000 grit stone.




Matus said:


> The option with a belt grinder is indeed there and yes, it can be MUCH faster (even a small 1x30"), but you need to be VERY careful as you can overheat the edge in a second...


Thanks Matus - I have both the flat round sanding Worksharp (pretty slow rotation) and a Craftsman 2 x 42 (very fast belt speed) - so thank you for the vote. I can use the Worksharp to flatten smaller knives' half flat or scandi bevels as long as there is a primary bevel to keep the edge away from the sandpaper. I haven't tried anything on the belt sander - I think I'll reserve that for anything where I'm an inch away from the edge. No confidence in my patience.


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## Matus (Dec 27, 2016)

Thanks for the feedback Gene. Your post reminded me that I should not shy away from using the Bester 220 when more material is to be removed.

The 'something in between' 220 and 1000 could well be a JKI320 or JNS300 (both fine scratch pattern, relatively slow dishing) or JKI400/s (coarser feeling, but faster cutting and dishing).


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## chinacats (Dec 27, 2016)

FWIW, I use a suehiro cerax 320 for a transition from pink 220 to first natural (binsui). It dishes a good bit but quickly smoothes the 220 scratches. I have a 120 sigma power stone on the way for even faster steel removal.


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## Lars (Dec 28, 2016)

Great discussion guys. I went and got me a Bester 220 and it is really very nice for a coarse stone.

Thanks,

Lars


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## Krassi (Dec 28, 2016)

Hi!
Is this the same pink brick than the Watanabe 220? ( http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/img/ai220_big.jpg )
Some guy in our german forum just tested it and its insanly good and leaves a Scratch finish thats more 600-800Grit like.

Just curious since it seems to be some similar OEM Pink brick that is discussed here.
Seeya,daniel!


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## Matus (Dec 28, 2016)

Krassi, would you happem to know does the Watanabe 220 dish? It does have similar color as the Bester 220 (aka pink brick) and JKI 220, but the dimensions are different.


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## Matus (Jan 2, 2017)

I realised - why not asking Shinichi himself. Here is his answer (which I think is OK to quote):

_"Both Bester 220 and AI#220 are made of from pink aluminum. Naniwa is made it too. I think you have the bester, you don't need AI#220. But I requested hardest bond to the maker. So you can think AI#220 is the hardest in these stones."_

I can only assume that Gesshin 220 uses the same abrasive (because of its color). It may however have different binder what would make the stone feel/dish differently.


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## Krassi (Jan 2, 2017)

Cool! Thanks for that! and i love Shinichi for not making some "top secret jambo mambo" about his stones.
interesting that the bond used can still differ even if the look the same.

Best regards, danieL!


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## labor of love (Jan 2, 2017)

Personally speaking, I think I would prefer a softer binder not a harder one.


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## Matus (Jan 2, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Personally speaking, I think I would prefer a softer binder not a harder one.



There is a tradeoff (as with nearly everything). Softer binder will make the stone cut faster, but also dish faster. So it is largely a user preference.


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## labor of love (Jan 2, 2017)

Matus said:


> There is a tradeoff (as with nearly everything). Softer binder will make the stone cut faster, but also dish faster. So it is largely a user preference.



Yep. It's a huge cheap stone. I wouldn't be too worried about it wearing quicker. And being easier to flatten.


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