# Takamura vs. Takamura Pro?



## SolidSnake03 (Feb 9, 2015)

Hey Everyone,

So I'm always looking to learn more about knives and see what's out there in the cool Gyuto world. I have never tried any of the Powdered Metal Steels before and in searching a bit Takamura has come up a couple times with what look to be some pretty neat laser thin gyuto's in R2 (SG-2). They have a couple lines but specifically the "regular red handle" and the Pro are the one's that interest me. These knives also look DROP DEAD sexy to me especially the red handle ones....

Was wondering if anyone has experience with both of these and could compare or comment on them? Experience with either knife is great too, just looking to try and get some info together here, the bits I have found are all kinda scattered so far....

Also, anyone know what is up with all the extra chiseled writing on the one's from MTC Kitchen? The photo's show some extra stuff like the name Takamura in all caps and the High Speed Tool Steel below it that no other sellers I have seen (KnifeWear, Knives, CKTG, Fine Japanese Kitchen Knives, Chubo, Chef's Armory etc...) have on them....

Anyone buy from MTC Kitchen before either? They are new to me while I have heard of all the others in my () before

For Reference 
Red Handle 
http://www.mtckitchen.com/p-768-takamura-hsps-gyuto-21cm.aspx
Pro
http://www.mtckitchen.com/p-691-takamura-hsps-pro-gyuto.aspx


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## MikeHL (Feb 10, 2015)

I got my Takamura from the MTC store in NYC. They are a physical Japanese kitchen/restaurant in the middle of new york with locations in Japan as well. 

I have the red handle 210mm Gyuto. Its relegated to fruit duty so mine doesn't have that much board time. The blade is super thin, very light knife. my only issue that I found was that the handle was on the narrow side, but that's personal preference.

As for the Red vs Black (Pro), looking at the pictures on the site I noticed that my red handle is a 3/4 tang and the pro line is a full tang. If you look closely at the red handle you can see that the tang is only 3/4 the height of the handle. Also the pro line looks like it has a forged bolster while mine has a soldered bolster (you can see the lines in the website). The F&F looks much better in the proline then the red handle, you also get a saya with the pro. That said I'm very happy with the my red Takumura. 

For the logo I'm sure its all marketing, Its easier to sell a Japanese knife to a western market with Kanji then with a English logo. From my brief chat with the sales lady while I was there, she mentioned that the products they sell in the NYC store is the exact product they sell in Japan. So perhaps the English logo is for the Japanese domestic market?

You can see the tang here http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?128196-Review-ASAGAO-Gyuto-210-R2


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## natto (Feb 10, 2015)

"High Speed Powdered Steel (HSPS)*"

It looks like the knife is really made of powdered HIGH SPEED STEEL. Of course a pm high speed steel fits better to knives than a non pm, but I wouldn't try it. Are there any decent HSS knives in use on the forum?


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## Midsummer (Feb 10, 2015)

I gave one of the red ones to my sister ( home cook) and she has some nice knives. She has small hands and now only uses the Takamura. It has stayed sharp and is extremely thin. Yo handles do not suit me personally.


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## natto (Feb 10, 2015)

mtckitchen calls R2 HSPS, lately I got it:whistling:


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## SolidSnake03 (Feb 10, 2015)

Interesting point about the japanese domestic market vs. having the kanji on it to help it sell in the us. That is a plausible reason, i called MTC today and they didnt have an explaination just stated again that what they have is what is sold in japan.

That said, anyone able to comment more on performance of the pro vs. Red handle? Or if the pro version has a bigger handle than the red? Have read a few places that the red handle is pretty small for mens hands....

Also, any idea on spine and choil rounding etc...?

Thanks


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 12, 2015)

I have seven Takamura knives from each of the following lines: Hana, R2 (red handle), Pro (formerly Blazen).

Here's a pic of three of them (hopefully):
View attachment 26338


The spines and choils are slightly rounded, enough just to take the edge off so that you can use it to slide foodstuffs around (if you don't like to drag your edge) without resistance, but not semi circles by any means. They're definitely more rounded than my Misono Swedish Steel. I have no complaints, but I don't cook for a living so can't comment on what hours of continuous use would be like, YMMV. 

The R2s are definitely thinner and therefore have pros (laser) and cons (not as well suited for heavier cutting) IMO. You'll need to think of what you want to use your knife/knives for.

Apparently MTC deals directly with Takamura San, while the majority of other sellers get thru a major Japanese distributor. I got my Hanas and Pros from MTC but my R2s in Canada.


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## SolidSnake03 (Feb 13, 2015)

Regarding the R2 vs. The Pro lines, which did you prefer? I already own a fairly stout Wusthof Classic for heavy work so that isnt a concern for me. The knife would be used for fruit and veggie work and sometimes cutting a sandwich or protein but that is the minority of the time. I have other knives for splitting a squash/watermelon/cantalope etc.... 

Considering this would you go for the R2 or splurge for the Pro? The Pro would be a fairly big expense for me compared to the R2 but i would consider it....


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## SolidSnake03 (Feb 13, 2015)

Forgot to add,is the handle on the Pro line any larger in width or girth than that of the R2? I found the red handle ones to be a bit small....


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 13, 2015)

Get the thinner Pro. and let us know. :biggrin:


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## SolidSnake03 (Feb 13, 2015)

It's tempting...honestly it really is! I really want to just buy it and find out but at the same time if someone can tell me right off the bat it's the same size than I know it's not worth it and will move on...


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 13, 2015)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Regarding the R2 vs. The Pro lines, which did you prefer? I already own a fairly stout Wusthof Classic for heavy work so that isnt a concern for me. The knife would be used for fruit and veggie work and sometimes cutting a sandwich or protein but that is the minority of the time. I have other knives for splitting a squash/watermelon/cantalope etc....
> 
> Considering this would you go for the R2 or splurge for the Pro? The Pro would be a fairly big expense for me compared to the R2 but i would consider it....



I can't really say I prefer one over the other. I have different knives for different purposes (and I must admit I have contrived some "unique" purposes to justify my affinity for knives).

The R2 blades are thinner but only available up to 210mm Gyuto (that's a 180mm R2 and 240mm Pro in the pic). The Pro is still relatively thin IMO. If the blade length won't be an issue and you're on a budget, and if you can care for a thin blade you probably won't be disappointed with the R2 (you could always keep a Pro in mind for a future purchase), but remember I dont cook/prep for a living so my opinion may not have a leg to stand on.

WRT handle thickness, the 180mm R2 is thinner than the 240mm Pro, but certainly more substantial than the R2 150mm petty I also have. I will see if I can get a comparison pic over the weekend.


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## SolidSnake03 (Feb 13, 2015)

Sorry to say that I can't see the attachment from before, a pic comparison of the handles would be great! I was mostly concerned with if a 210 R2 and 210 Pro handle would be different in volume so to speak. I figured that the larger size knives had a correspondingly larger handle but it was most when comparing knives of the same length. I generally like using the 210mm length for everyday home use but again the R2 handles in the 210mm are probably the smallest I have seen or used in that size for a western. 

I also don't cook/prep for a living so no worries there haha! I just do it a fair bit for fun.


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 14, 2015)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Sorry to say that I can't see the attachment from before, a pic comparison of the handles would be great! I was mostly concerned with if a 210 R2 and 210 Pro handle would be different in volume so to speak. I figured that the larger size knives had a correspondingly larger handle but it was most when comparing knives of the same length. I generally like using the 210mm length for everyday home use but again the R2 handles in the 210mm are probably the smallest I have seen or used in that size for a western.
> 
> I also don't cook/prep for a living so no worries there haha! I just do it a fair bit for fun.



Hmmm, funny how the pic didn't load. Haven't had problems with other ones. Let's try again:
View attachment 26390


That R2 is 180mm and I don't find the handle too small, although it is smaller than the 240 Pro gyuto. I'll set the knives out still and get anther fee pics for reference.


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 15, 2015)

Crazy... It showed in the preview but when I clicked it today it loads a blank page. Hopefully this will work:




Previous picture

The pics below are some handle shots with some other knives for reference. From L-R:
Z-K Euroline 52100 10" Chefs Kinfe
Misono Swedish Steel left hand 300mm Gyuto (with DRAGON!!!)
Takamura Hana Santoku 165mm
Takamura R2 petty 150mm
Takamura R2 gyuto 180mm
Takamura Pro gyuto 240mm
Sukenari W#1 honyaki wa-gyuto 240mm










I don't find the handle of the R2 gyuto too small, especially if using a pinch grip. If the pics don't make it thru let me know.


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## XooMG (Feb 15, 2015)

I really should have gotten the basic red-handled petty...don't know why I went with the Hana.


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 15, 2015)

tjangula said:


> I don't find the handle of the R2 gyuto too small, especially if using a pinch grip.



I should add though, this knive is task specific for me (usually detail or delicate vegetable work due to size and thinness, although it can do other things). If I need a rock solid grip for heavier tasks I'll use a beast like the Misono or Kramer.


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 15, 2015)

XooMG said:


> I really should have gotten the basic red-handled petty...don't know why I went with the Hana.



Although the red handled ones are the "basic" models, they are still great knives IMO which may be underrated. Id like to see an aftermarket WA conversion. I have the 240mm Hana Sujihiki as well (wish I was patient enough to wait for the 270mm instead, but got a 270mm Pro as well). The Hana Sujihiki also has a nice metal cap on the end of the handle which I wish the others in the Hana series had.




Also found an old pic (decent handle shot) of my 135mm Pro petty and 150mm R2 petty (the 135mm is boxed up at the moment)


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## XooMG (Feb 15, 2015)

tjangula said:


> Although the red handled ones are the "basic" models, they are still great knives IMO which may be underrated. Id like to see an aftermarket WA conversion.


There was one done over at the taboo site that rhymes with "deaf wives chew snow", but it was shoddily done (a nice handle but a terrible fit that exposed the bolster pin hole). I may be having some Takamura red gyuto rehandled in the nearish future, but the details are still pending.


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## James (Feb 16, 2015)

Found the picture of it. It seems like it would've looked nice if the handle were bigger and moved up enough to encase the bolster hole.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 16, 2015)

Converting a western to a wa have to grind away steel. Should have put that horn up to the heel.:bashhead:


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## XooMG (Feb 16, 2015)

If it were me, I'd have made a tapered ferrule that could snuggle up closer to the choil, so there wouldn't need to be so much finger space on the neck. Or I'd have shortened the knife 5mm or so from the choil and pulled the handle up to cover the hole. However, the customer gets what the customer wants I suppose, and that seems to be what they wanted out of the deal. Not my cuppa, but it's not my knifa.

Maybe I'll come up with something interesting...guess we'll see.


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 16, 2015)

@ OP:

FYI, the hinoki cutting board in the pics is 3/4" thick for sizing reference.


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## SolidSnake03 (Feb 17, 2015)

Thank you so much for that lined up pic! Very helpful to actually see the handles compared that way, the 180mm doesn't actually look that much smaller than the 240mm. I might have to give that 210mm R2 Red Handle a shot...

Your pic is also very helpful for showing the partial tang on the red handle R2 vs. the full tang on the Pro. Thanks! For <$200 the R2 Red Handle definitely would be a good buy I think as long as you have something a bit more stout as a back up? Might make a nice compliment to the 10' Kramer...

Also, nice Kramer, I had an 8' 52100 Chef and own a 10' Essential Chef and they are wonderful knives!


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 18, 2015)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Thank you so much for that lined up pic! Very helpful to actually see the handles compared that way, the 180mm doesn't actually look that much smaller than the 240mm. I might have to give that 210mm R2 Red Handle a shot...
> 
> Your pic is also very helpful for showing the partial tang on the red handle R2 vs. the full tang on the Pro. Thanks! For <$200 the R2 Red Handle definitely would be a good buy I think as long as you have something a bit more stout as a back up? Might make a nice compliment to the 10' Kramer...
> 
> Also, nice Kramer, I had an 8' 52100 Chef and own a 10' Essential Chef and they are wonderful knives!



Glad that it was helpful. I don't think you could go wrong with the red Takamura. Just keep in mind it doesn't come with a saya but they are easily had if you want to get one. I got the universal 180mm gyuto saya and the fit is acceptable.

I don't know why I didn't think to take a pic of my Misono Swedish Steel 180mm gyuto for an 180 vs 180 comparison, but here it is now (too lazy to take the sayas off though, and no idea why it appears to have rotated the pic)



There is a bit of a shadow in front of the Misono, but the Takamura handle is actually bigger. They are both about the same thickness though. I don't find either handle "too small".

The Kramer is decent but has its issues. The blackwood shrinks a bit so the rivets stick out a tad, and I find the handle almost too "bulbous" such that it can make a pinch grip feel awkward (I've adjusted mine somewhat for this knife and don't feel unduly encumbered by having to do so). But I basically got it for 35% off brand new so am happy overall.


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## SolidSnake03 (Feb 19, 2015)

That is good news on the handle, the impressions of its size may have overstated the "small-ness" a bit, additionally i have adjust my grip a bit to be more of a lighter pinch meaning less focus and force is on the handle. 

Regarding the Kramer, that handle issue is true of the 52100 line but the Essential line uses a POM handle i believe so no shrinking or other issues, perfect fit and finish on that one! 

The 10' Essential is a great "big knife" whenever you want something larger  the handle is on thr big side though that is true


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## richard (Aug 13, 2015)

Did you end up getting a Takamura R2 210 mm? I'm pondering getting that knife. FWIW, the handle should be very similar size to the same size HSPS Pro.


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## gic (Aug 13, 2015)

Where are they sold in Japan, going to be there soon... Does one have to go to Takefu?


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## aboynamedsuita (Aug 13, 2015)

gic said:


> Where are they sold in Japan, going to be there soon... Does one have to go to Takefu?



If be interested in knowing this as well. I'm having a tough time finding a particular knife in Canada


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## richard (Aug 13, 2015)

In Canada you can get it from Knifewear


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## aboynamedsuita (Aug 13, 2015)

Already gone that route, they won't have until the late Fall most likely. I'm prepared to wait but if there are other sources that have the one I'm looking for I may act in the interim


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## SolidSnake03 (Aug 13, 2015)

Picked one up from that other site, wonderfully cutter but the handle really is small and just feels dainty in my hand, not bad just different. Switching from it to my Fuji FKM 240 back to back is quite different.

Wonderful performance though, no wedging and cuts so so well!


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## drake (Aug 13, 2015)

A fellow line cook recently bought one of these. It is amazingly sharp and holds its edge for a while. A bit hard for my liking but an amazing knife...
http://www.mtckitchen.com/p-690-takamura-hana-damascus-hsps-gyuto-21cm.aspx


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## chaimyname (Mar 1, 2016)

Greetings Knife Lovers,

I am the super proud owner of a "Takamura Gyutou (210mm)" and recently i also purchased a beautiful "Takamura Uchigumo (210mm)"
from Chubo Knives.com (an American owner,but ships directly from Japan to worldwide at a very reasonably priced shipping fee.)
I am a not a professional chef,but rather someone that enjoys cooking as a hobby and i appreciates quality made products.
Although i am relatively new to the cutlery world,i wanted the best Japanese kitchen in my kitchen arsenal.
So i did a lot of research and started by buying a few Japanese knives.After my first experience with a Japanese knife..i was badly hooked to them.Initially,i was shocked by how pricey a good Japanese can cost..some up to a few thousand US dollars.
I had a budget of no more than USD$300.Then,one day i bought a USD$175 Takamura with rosewood handle..and that really fired up my love and obsession for the cutlery even more..I just had to get the best and i have tasted a sample of great master craftmanship in Takamura.
They have a long line of knives series and a lot of their line are way above my budget..but,with my confidence in the brand i decided to raise my budget and bought a "Takamura Uchigumo" it cost USD$455..i have been using the knife for 4 months now,and it is money well spend and as did not dissapoint me at all,definetely far superior than the "Takamura Migaki"
Takamura is the brand that you should look into if you are seeking a work of art with samurai 'katana' like properties in a knife in your kitchen.
You will thank me..worth every dime.Take the dive,the water is warm believe me..!!
Byee.Keep me updated if you do buy one,okay?
[email protected]


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