# Most surprising knife you've bought?



## Sharp-Hamono (Mar 7, 2017)

It seems like for most people here, we buy a lot of our knives, based on reviews and other input, from online knife retailers, not necessarily from stores where we can handle them in person. Sometimes information is left out from online product descriptions, though, so we either buy on faith in the reviews we've read, or maybe we just forgot to check a certain aspect before buying and assume that all will be well. For all the hobbyist knife collectors, home cooks and professionals who have accumulated a few knives out there, what has been the most surprising knife purchase you've made? Either in terms of finding out some pleasant new feature or aspect of the knife only when you had it in your hands, or anything else that surprised you, positive or negative?

I picked up a Hattori FH 210mm gyuto a few months ago on a whim. I've read that it's a really nice VG10 knife with a heat treat that promotes easier sharpening, and I was interested in how sharp I could get it, and how long the VG10 steel could retain that edge. To my surprise, the knife is a freaking laser, super thin and has great geometry for slicing. I'm really glad I picked it up. It may not be entirely a match for its hefty price tag, I don't know, but it's definitely not *that* overpriced.


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## Casaluz (Mar 7, 2017)

I agree with you that over time we find surprising things, both positive and negative, beyond the expectations we originally had based on a myriad of sources and factors. Often I expected some knives to be fantastic, and they turn out to be just that, fantastic. Perrhaps the biggest surprise for me, in this case positive surprise since I did not expect to like it so much , is my Aritsugu A type 210 mm Wa-Gyuto with white color buffalo horn bolster and ho wood octogonal handle. The knife is incredibly well balanced. It has been much easier to sharpen than I expected, the handle is absolutely beautiful in a spartan way, centered and functional with a stunning white horn ferule. The knife holds the edge for a very long time, and the balance between the length and height suits me very very well. I find myself reaching for it as often as I do my Carter. The Aritsugus do not seem to receive a lot of love on this forum, however, I am very happy I got it and would not trade it for other more expensive knives.


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## khashy (Mar 7, 2017)

It would have to be the Takeo Murata Blue1 KU Funayuki. I got the less expensive Buho line with a basic ferrule-less wa handle. 

For the price I paid, I'm extremely happy with it. Balance is great, and it's B#1 for less than $100 delivered.

I'm not a pro and have quite a few different knives to rotate so it hasn't passed its edge retention test, but I have had it for a month now and it hasn't needed any touch up what so ever. I've posted a few pictures of it on the new knife thread if anyone is interested


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## TheCaptain (Mar 7, 2017)

The Gengetsu White #2 210mm. Yea, I know it gets a lot of love here but so do other knives. It's probably heresy but I prefer that knife to the Shig 210 that I recently picked up. It's more nimble and just feels more responsive. Almost like I'm handling a petty instead of a full Gyuto.


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## Godslayer (Mar 7, 2017)

HHH mid tech. I don't normally like short blades but this one works. Or a fukiwara nakiri for all the stuff about grind issues mine is a beast.


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## panda (Mar 7, 2017)

Misono carbon 210, it wasn't good out of box but once I thinned it, became my most used knife in a busy kitchen.


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## fatboylim (Mar 7, 2017)

The Toyama Nakiri 210 gave me a new understanding of great heat treatment. The shear density of the blade that allows power through the edge was quite the surprise. 

Also, the Tanaka kurouchi grind was much better than expected. And for the price it was a steal!


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## Lazarus (Mar 7, 2017)

I'll second Gengetsu. First time using it I did a double take.


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## QCDawg (Mar 7, 2017)

+1 Hattori kf. Handles are art too. Sab chef de chef massif 8.5 too.


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## Badgertooth (Mar 7, 2017)

Toyama. I was surprised by the heft of it in hand. It felt simultaneously dangerous and reassuring. I was surprised by the OOTB edge and I was surprised by the way it cut.


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## rami_m (Mar 7, 2017)

I was surprised by Mert's early knives. The one I had didn't have the best finish, but it could cut, could hold an edge and keep it. 
It had that shig feeling ( the feeling you get when the you first cut with a shig, wish I could describe what aspect of their performance does that) without the fussy cladding. When I found that I would reach it over my shig at the time. I was very surprised indeed.


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## chinacats (Mar 7, 2017)

Tanaka Blue 2 damascus. Early models were insanely reactive...newer appear to have a different cladding and not as reactive. Great knives oob and yet loaded with potential for tweaking. Best knife for money hands down imo.


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## XooMG (Mar 7, 2017)

it is much easier to think of disappointments than positive surprises. However, I am reluctant to share publicly. I get the impression that my opinions are at odds with many community conventions, and cannot claim my opinions have enough merit to be seriously considered.

my favorite happy surprises were my local cleavers once I took advantage of them as project knives. I was also pleasantly surprised by a Kato 18cm gyuto after a so-so experience with a petty. My Xerxes Primus was also thinner at the edge than I feared, and my taking a chance with Mr. Wakui has been a generally positive experience.


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## Jovidah (Mar 7, 2017)

XooMG said:


> it is much easier to think of disappointments than positive surprises. However, I am reluctant to share publicly. I get the impression that my opinions are at odds with many community conventions, and cannot claim my opinions have enough merit to be seriously considered.
> 
> my favorite happy surprises were my local cleavers once I took advantage of them as project knives. I was also pleasantly surprised by a Kato 18cm gyuto after a so-so experience with a petty. My Xerxes Primus was also thinner at the edge than I feared, and my taking a chance with Mr. Wakui has been a generally positive experience.



I don't see why your opinion, when negative, cannot be valid. People might not agree with it, but that doesn't mean they're invalid. Different people might like different attributes in a knife, making it perfectly possible for for 2 knowledgable people to disagree in a knife without either of them being 'wrong'.
As long as you actually held and used the knife in question I'd say any opinion / experience has merit.


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## malexthekid (Mar 8, 2017)

Jovidah said:


> I don't see why your opinion, when negative, cannot be valid. People might not agree with it, but that doesn't mean they're invalid. Different people might like different attributes in a knife, making it perfectly possible for for 2 knowledgable people to disagree in a knife without either of them being 'wrong'.
> As long as you actually held and used the knife in question I'd say any opinion / experience has merit.



Agree with the above. I also tend to think that you (XooMG) just have very specific requirememys which you like in a knife. And if they don't deliver on that front you don't like the blade. Which is totally reasonable point of view to bring across.


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## v647c (Mar 8, 2017)

Probably the Masahiro VC 240mm gyuto. Great value and grind. Super easy to sharpen and is just one of those knives that smash products and beg for more.


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## Sharp-Hamono (Mar 8, 2017)

Jovidah said:


> I don't see why your opinion, when negative, cannot be valid. People might not agree with it, but that doesn't mean they're invalid. Different people might like different attributes in a knife, making it perfectly possible for for 2 knowledgable people to disagree in a knife without either of them being 'wrong'.
> As long as you actually held and used the knife in question I'd say any opinion / experience has merit.



I hate to say it, but I tend to agree with XooMG to the extent that the thread may not survive from the fallout of certain "unpopular opinions." Example: Person A says that he was disappointed at how ordinary some knife is and how it's not deserving of all the hype. Then ten new people post in the thread to "educate" Person A about his "misconceptions" about that knife. Two dozen posts later, the topic of the thread is now just about that knife. 

That said, I'd personally like to hear people's disappointments as well, and I definitely won't try to "correct" anyone's opinions if I don't agree.


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## labor of love (Mar 8, 2017)

Tilman's niolox heat treat really surprised me(amazing stainless), plus the profile/cutting ability of his 270mm suji. Gengetsu 270mm gyuto blew me away. 240mm not so much. Kato plowed through product like cleaver. I've made the best brunoise cuts with wakui(the surprise here is that the performance far outweighs the price tag). My first watanabe was an eye opener for how great flatter profiles could be. Takeda 240mm suji(yes the suji) really surprised me for its versatility( the gyutos too of course but that's less surprising).


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## richard (Mar 8, 2017)

v647c said:


> Probably the Masahiro VC 240mm gyuto. Great value and grind. Super easy to sharpen and is just one of those knives that smash products and beg for more.



I'll have to +1 for Masahiro as well for value and great overall design, comfort and cutting ability for the money. I haven't tried the VC series, but in the past few months I've added three Masahiro MV/MV-H stainless knives to my collection and I really like them.

I was just doing a wedging/edge thinness side-by-side cutting test with some of my thinner knives by slicing super thin coins of the thick end of a carrot. Of course, my Takamura R2 (and also tied with it my Shibata Kotetsu) stood out for best precision and glided through the easiest. Just behind that were my Ryusen Blazen, which I expected  but my Masahiro MV-H 149XX series gyuto cut just as cleanly and effortlessly (although both achieve their thin geometries with very different grinds - symmetric for the Ryusen and asymmetric 80/20 for the Masahiro). However the Masahiro costs about a 1/3 of what a Ryusen Blazen's current price (OK Blazen is made from a much higher end steel so not the fairest comparison). The fit and finish on the Masahiro Mv-H is quite good; just shy of Misono in my book. Also got the Masahiro MV-H honesuki as well, and it's my favorite now (I have three). Puts my Tojiro DP honesuki to shame.


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## JGui (Mar 8, 2017)

Ontario 7" butcher


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## Jovidah (Mar 8, 2017)

Sharp-Hamono said:


> I hate to say it, but I tend to agree with XooMG to the extent that the thread may not survive from the fallout of certain "unpopular opinions." Example: Person A says that he was disappointed at how ordinary some knife is and how it's not deserving of all the hype. Then ten new people post in the thread to "educate" Person A about his "misconceptions" about that knife. Two dozen posts later, the topic of the thread is now just about that knife.
> 
> That said, I'd personally like to hear people's disappointments as well, and I definitely won't try to "correct" anyone's opinions if I don't agree.


Have some faith.... I think most of us are smart enough to understand that appreciation of a knife is as much about a user's preference than it is about a knife's qualities. Heck; the whole point of the knife-buying questionaire is to try and match up preferences and knives.

My most surprising experience... was an ultracheap 170mm filetting knife originally bought at a wholesaler for 10 euros to see if I could get myself into trimming fish. Pretty soon I discovered it was actually the perfect profile for trimming meats, silverskin and almost anything related to turning big humps of untrimmed meat into pan-ready gems. It starts to dull in about 10 minutes of cutting, keeps an edge like warm butter and the steel is about the quality of a soda can... but that thing immediately made me a believer in low-profiled 180mm petties. I'm sure there's a Ginga or something like it in my future.

And non-knife, but knife-related. The Ikea Reträtt knife block. For 10 euros... you have a block that holds 6 knives. BUT... unlike all other blocks it actually fits multiple big knives, and all slots are long. If you want, one block can fit 3 270mm gyuto's (if they don't run long), 2 270mm suji's, and a long petty. And a steel if you're so-inclined.


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## Kingkor (Mar 8, 2017)

Tristone 150mm rwl34 petty. By far the best f&f I've got and the heat treatment and sharpness I could get out of this stainless is mind blowing. Makes me think of going custom all the way with my set (thats actually what im currently doing) but no other stainless knive ive handled had this impact on me from the first cut to the first sharpening.


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## Keith Sinclair (Mar 8, 2017)

Sugimoto CM 4030. After almost giving up finding a decent stainless cleaver it was more than I expected.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Mar 8, 2017)

Takeda 270mm. It just felt like a smaller knife with the benefits of a bigger sized blade. The fact it can take some abuse made for a great all around knife.


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## panda (Mar 8, 2017)

Marcelo, I even use Takeda 270 on the line sometimes. It's quite wieldable.


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## supersayan3 (Mar 8, 2017)

Masahiro VC, Hiromoto Honyaki.
Also, Victorinox rosewood flexible fillet 18cm, the more narrow blade of the two flexibles(not the nail for butchery)


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## krell (Mar 8, 2017)

For me its my Masakage Yuki. Damn thing cuts like a dream and just speaks to me when its in my hand.


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## krell (Mar 8, 2017)

Failed to mention that it's a 210 Gyuto.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Mar 8, 2017)

panda said:


> Marcelo, I even use Takeda 270 on the line sometimes. It's quite wieldable.



Wow! I'm only a home user, but i always thought it would be a great addition to a pro arsenal. If i had to choose only one gyuto, that would be mine.


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## Sharp-Hamono (Mar 8, 2017)

krell said:


> For me its my Masakage Yuki. Damn thing cuts like a dream and just speaks to me when its in my hand.



White steel is so much fun to sharpen.


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## Brady686 (Mar 9, 2017)

Has to be my dave martell 240 52100. I've used my fair share of lasers but this thing is just a beast, feels amazing to sharpen and takes a super toothy but also very keen edge. Literally flies through anything, unbelievable cutter.


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## nwdel (Mar 9, 2017)

I'm going to go with my Marko A2 5.5" boning knife. Extremely easy to sharpen, holds an edge for a long time, and is so comfortable. I've cut with it all day long, and it kind of feels like an extension of my hand.


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## Sharp-Hamono (Mar 9, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Also, the Tanaka kurouchi grind was much better than expected. And for the price it was a steal!



Some people thin these I hear, but I find it to already be very useful for an all around working man's knife. It's a perfect example of why choil shots can be misleading. Yes, the heel will wedge if I chop through thick foods with it, but the blade is nice and thin toward the tip, right where it needs to be thin to start a push cut through something like a potato - the thick heel then seems to function as a lengthwise wedge to promote food release at the end of the slice. I was prepared to be underwhelmed, since Tanaka's B2 damascus knives seem to be what most people buy and they appear to have a thinner choil, but the KU blade was a nice surprise once I thought about it and realized that actually a lot of planning went into the grind of this knife to make it excel just how it needs to.

Also, I was prepared for a plastic ferrule set at a step down from the the handle, but my new, unmodified 240mm Tanaka gyuto has a D-shaped buffalo horn ferrule and handle with no step. Really not bad F&F at all, aside from the fact that the spine isn't rounded - and I'm not using it for hours on end in a professional setting, so I probably won't bother to round the corners of the spine anyway.


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## fatboylim (Mar 9, 2017)

What I like about the contributions so far is that there is one from every grade. I loosely categorise 4 grades:
Entry level: e.g. Globals, Masahiro
Mid range: e.g. Tanaka, Wakui 
High end: e.g. Toyama, Masashi, Gengetsu 
Custom/collectors: Kato


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## dwalker (Mar 9, 2017)

I like this thread. 

+1 for the Toyama. I thought it would need thinning at the tip and then I used it. Sweet baby Jesus, I can't believe how this one falls through ingredients. I'm almost afraid to sharpen it for fear of screwing it up. 

Just received a Tanaka B2 240 as a project knife and was pleased with the grind in general. While a little uneven, it certainly is functional.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Mar 9, 2017)

@Jovidah the Reträtt is quite a mixed bag ... the big front slots can't take nakiris or tall gyutos well, the small slots are too tight if you like having a thicker single-bevel petty/slicer around, no way to fit any cleaver or thick deba, not truly space efficient ( but then, I'm kinda the person that doesn't mind putting knives forward-backward-forward-backward into block slits for two rows of handles....)


...

Still Goko W#1 for me. Amazing how long you can maintain it near-shaving with just paper once you sharpened it well.


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## add (Mar 9, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Still Goko W#1 for me. Amazing how long you can maintain it near-shaving with just paper once you sharpened it well.



Can you please expand a small, overall bite on this one?

Thanks!


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## Jovidah (Mar 10, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @Jovidah the Reträtt is quite a mixed bag ... the big front slots can't take nakiris or tall gyutos well, the small slots are too tight if you like having a thicker single-bevel petty/slicer around, no way to fit any cleaver or thick deba, not truly space efficient ( but then, I'm kinda the person that doesn't mind putting knives forward-backward-forward-backward into block slits for two rows of handles....)



I suppose it's inappropriate to make 'yo petty so fat...'-jokes?  At least I never encountered any problems... but I don't have fat cleavers, debas or really tall nakiris that I try to put in there. Still, I don't think there's are many knife blocks on the market that fit those either. As I said, for a collection of gyuto's and sujis (or for example storing all your butcher & filetting knives) this can still work cheap miracles. Most cheap knife blocks I've seen barely even fit knives over 210... let alone multiples of them. The big slots are 4x55 mm (plus one 4x70), the small ones are 3x40 mm (plus on 3x20-25).


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Mar 10, 2017)

@add these knives have been discussed here quite well one or two years ago, some like them some don't it seems. At least my sample seems to have just the right HT to be easily paper/balsa stropped (unloaded) back to arm hair busting after using it less than gently (not: abusing it. But chopping, peeling squashes and melons, etc etc. - normal use.) hundreds of times at 12 dps (not with the OOTB edge though) - surprising because this steel is not supposed to be a kirenaga champion. An AS nakiri used for similar tasks at similar frequency has needed the stones a few times since I last had to get abrasive on the W#1. 
Of course, it could indeed be that I just suck less at sharpening white steel 

....

'yo petty so fat...'

This is a postmoral forum, I would hope? Example for something that won't fit the small slots thickness wise: 90/110mm Mikihisa bannou....

Actually, my strategy for blocks is just getting the kind that comes with bamboo or plastic straws, *throwing all the straws away**, and filling it with balsa plates and spacers....


*The bamboo straws, if untreated, could be reused for making Tikka or other small kabobs. Not recommended with the plastic ones...


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## y32dsm (Mar 10, 2017)

Heiji, and Toyama. Heat Treat! Heat Treat! Heat Treat!

Steels are so dense-----> sharper than others, silky smooth, edge retention.


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## zetieum (Mar 31, 2017)

Suisin Inox H in 240mm. I had high expectations considering the fame of knife. High disappointment.


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## KitchenCommander (Mar 31, 2017)

Happy:
Artisan (Akifusa) 210 PM steel Gyuto. It is a narrow Gyuto at 43mm tall, and when I received it second hand from the forums it had an unimpressive choil shot and a HUGE 1/4" sharpening bevel. Artisan is the most affordable of the Akifusa OEM knives from what I gather. Immediately I was disappointed by the looks of the knife and was wondering if it had been poorly sharpened by the previous owner, but he said it was factory sharpening. After cutting with it, it cut very well, and the distal taper is awesome. It also has a flat profile that seems to fit how I cut almost perfectly. And the sharpening job I assume was to give the edge some convexity. Turns out it is my current favorite knife and I even put a new handle on it. A keeper for sure despite my first impressions. Edge retention is excellent.




Sad: 
Hiromoto AS 240 Gyuto. This was my first nice J-knife and after reading here for a while, this is what I decided on. Bought it new and was initially very happy with the look and feel. Unfortunately it had pretty much zero flat spot and quite a bit of belly. Being new to nice kitchen knives I did not know what I wanted in profile and geometry, and the Hiromoto did not fit the profile I liked. Not anything negative against the quality, but the profile just didn't fit with me, so it got sold. The edge needed the shoulders blended as well. I believe the funds for that knife ended up buying the Artisan above, so it turned out great in the end.


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## K813zra (Mar 31, 2017)

I have about a dozen gyuto's as well as other assorted J-knives and I must say that the initial surprise was more of a shocker. Unlike many I did not come from good quality Euro knives but from cheap box store knives with poor steel, bad grinds and an even worse heat treat. I jumped into this head first and got a Masakage Yuki (going on two years ago) and I was flabbergasted by it in every way. It had a nice feel about it, performed leagues better than any kitchen knife I had ever used and was so easy to sharpen. I must say it is a nice knife to look at as well.

Fast forward a bit, I now have a collection of knives and I still get surprised when I pick up a new one. The next knife to knock my socks off is one of my more recent knives. That would be my Gesshin Ginga. My first laser and what an eye opener. This feather weight goes through just about anything like it isn't even there. On the other hand I was surprised at the fatigue it causes if you use it long enough. This may have been less of a problem if I sized it up to a 240 or even 270 but I digress. It was shocking enough that it earned its spot as a permanent fixture in my kitchen from the first cut.

Having said all of that I do have another knife, one that shocked me the most. Now this may sound odd as it is often suggested as a beginner knife but nothing has surprised me as much, at least not up to this point. My most shocking, to me, knife is my Tojiro Shirogami. No, it is not the best performing knife that I have nor is it the prettiest or even the most ergonomic. What it is, is a knife that blew me away in terms of performance to value ratio. I have knives from this line in many flavors and I wish they would expand it to include a few more. The knife has a decent grind, distal tapper and simply performs well as an all around tool. I don't find the fit and finish near as bad as others make it out to be either. I have $200 knives that came with sharper spines and choils, or at least equal. The KU does come off easily though. The handle is so-so but I have seen worse from knives twice the price. 

Hah, as you can tell I am a Tojiro fan. Anyway, those are the three knives that surprised me most. All for different reasons and I am sure there will be more to come in the future as I have yet to find that one knife that I connect with on another level and I don't know if I ever will. Then again, it is possible as I have done so with other objects in my life such as hunting rifle, fishing rod etc...We shall see.


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