# Time for a mini review... Gesshin Uraku 165MM SKD Santoku



## vai777

Haven't bought a new knife in years... was browsing JKI and came across this little thing








Packing was over the top from JKI... EXACTLY WHAT ONE WANTS... SUPER FAST SHIPPING AND PACKED LIKE FORT KNOX AND FREE!!!!! Box was also wrapped in nice black gift/tissue paper and sealed with a JKI logo sticker... a nice touch. OK... on to the knife....

OOTB edge was ok... nothing spectacular but it's a $125 knife... not expecting the world here. Ran it on some 5k grit paper and hard felt to get rid of the semi wire edge that almost all new knives have to some degree. Stropped on a little leather and it passed the MC Three Finger test (which is, as I have learned, as good as one needs in the kitchen). Cut up an apple on a cheap bamboo cutting board... obviously not through the core / seeds. Was very clean, had to use a little pressure cause the knife is a feather, I'd say a hair over 4oz at the most. The apple did stick to the blade though but it wasn't a huge deal. The edge remained shaving / 3 finger sharp even after heavy contact / rocking cuts on the board. Then I figured I'd up the ante... cut some hard sausage... about 15 thin slices. Washed the knife and the edge was still shaving sharp but the portion near the tip no longer passed the three finger test. This is to be expected because hard sausage isn't exactly the friendliest of items to cut with a very thin J knife. Granted this was a very quick analysis of this knife but if you want something thin and light and sharp... this is it. A STEAL @ $125.

MORE PICS...


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## menzaremba

Thanks for this. Nice to have you posting on the site again. I'd love to see you do a retrospective post talking about the brands/knives that people were excited about when you first got into knives.


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## mistascoopa

...and a new rabbit hole is created :biggrin:

Thanks for the mini-post, as well as the pics. I've been interested in purchasing a knife from this line.

Gotta ask, what cutting board do you have? Link available?

Thanks.


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## echerub

Thanks for the mini-review  We need more of these quick-reviews around here... especially with the untold number of knives in our collective ownership


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## vai777

menzaremba said:


> Thanks for this. Nice to have you posting on the site again. I'd love to see you do a retrospective post talking about the brands/knives that people were excited about when you first got into knives.



yeah I was thinking about that... not sure where to post it though...


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## vai777

mistascoopa said:


> ...and a new rabbit hole is created :biggrin:
> 
> Thanks for the mini-post, as well as the pics. I've been interested in purchasing a knife from this line.
> 
> Gotta ask, what cutting board do you have? Link available?
> 
> Thanks.



The board is from The Board Smith... it is Black Walnut


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## CutFingers

I'm thinking about getting a knife from Jon...Mainly because I think his entry level price points have better handles than most other vendors I've seen. I believe the stainless version has a softer rockwell than the carbons. With a ceramic rod it should serve well as a good line knife.


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## menzaremba

vai777 said:


> yeah I was thinking about that... not sure where to post it though...



Just post it in the general thread. If the mods think it should be someplace else, I'm sure they'll relocate it for you.


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## echerub

Retrospective look at a whole slew of knives that you've used? General forum is perfectly appropriate


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## vai777

echerub said:


> Retrospective look at a whole slew of knives that you've used? General forum is perfectly appropriate



'I'll see what I can do...


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## gatzgatz

any problem with rusting?


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## the_edge

Same box, kanji, handle material, grind, F&F, as Yoshihiro Daisu SKD11 knives. Yoshihiro isn't as elusive when it comes to Rockwell hardness. Wonder why the reason for re-branding? Maybe some were slightly off on heat treating so they're sold through third parties?


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## James

the_edge said:


> Same box, kanji, handle material, grind, F&F, as Yoshihiro Daisu SKD11 knives. Yoshihiro isn't as elusive when it comes to Rockwell hardness. Wonder why the reason for re-branding? Maybe some were slightly off on heat treating so they're sold through third parties?



Doubt it. Jon usually tweaks these to his specs (whether it be f&f, grind, HT or a combination of the 3).


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## chinacats

the_edge said:


> Same box, kanji, handle material, grind, F&F, as Yoshihiro Daisu SKD11 knives. Yoshihiro isn't as elusive when it comes to Rockwell hardness. Wonder why the reason for re-branding? Maybe some were slightly off on heat treating so they're sold through third parties?



Jon's will be upgrades not rejects...look to outside of forum vendors for that nonsense.


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## Matus

the_edge said:


> Same box, kanji, handle material, grind, F&F, as Yoshihiro Daisu SKD11 knives. Yoshihiro isn't as elusive when it comes to Rockwell hardness. Wonder why the reason for re-branding? Maybe some were slightly off on heat treating so they're sold through third parties?



Rejects ... made me laugh :rofl2: Jon has some of the highest quality standards I have seen. He has many (most) of the knives offers made to his specifications and stands 100% behind his products.

Read *HERE* on why & how Yoshihiro knives became Uraku line at JKI.


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## the_edge

Evidence please? -Or are we expected to believe the claims of a founding member, and some followers when it comes to third party claims of better heat treatment, and other claims that don't use numbers? Or would you treat your readers as idiots that don't care about facts?


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## Timthebeaver

Absloutely the best way to buy Japanese knives = compare numbers you have found on the internet.


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## daveb

the_edge said:


> Evidence please? -Or are we expected to believe the claims of a founding member, and some followers when it comes to third party claims of better heat treatment, and other claims that don't use numbers? Or would you treat your readers as idiots that don't care about facts?



If you can't start with anecdotal evidence and use your own judgement from there then you are in the wrong hobby.


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## Benuser

the_edge said:


> Evidence please? -Or are we expected to believe the claims of a founding member, and some followers when it comes to third party claims of better heat treatment, and other claims that don't use numbers? Or would you treat your readers as idiots that don't care about facts?



Are you the one who asks for evidence, after a very strange assertion?

An example will make clear how grotesque your demand is.

Imagine someone suggesting that a well-known maker uses human blood when producing a knife handle, 
Others who don't believe this story should prove no human blood is being used??
This is a very serious matter. Just by suggesting a retailer sells left-overs you're causing damage.


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## James

the_edge said:


> Evidence please? -Or are we expected to believe the claims of a founding member, and some followers when it comes to third party claims of better heat treatment, and other claims that don't use numbers? Or would you treat your readers as idiots that don't care about facts?



Rather, I'd treat my readers as idiots if they think that Jon, who has provided some of the best performing knives to the community and stands behind all of his knives 100%, is selling rejects. JKI's lines of knives are always tweaked and put through stringent quality control; look at the gesshin ginga vs ashi.


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## Matus

Thank you for a nice review. I was always intrigued by the Uraku SKD knives and would have considered one if different blade types were available. Is there a chance for you to compare how does the steel performs in comparison to SKD from Yoshikane?


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## the_edge

Benuser said:


> Are you the one who asks for evidence, after a very strange assertion?
> 
> An example will make clear how grotesque your demand is.
> 
> Imagine someone suggesting that a well-known maker uses human blood when producing a knife handle,
> Others who don't believe this story should prove no human blood is being used??
> This is a very serious matter. Just by suggesting a retailer sells left-overs you're causing damage.



A very strange assertion would be this: 

'The line we carry (now Gesshin Uraku) had better fit and finish, better consistency of grind, less issues with warping, less high and low spots, and in my experience a better heat treatment... Kind of like the difference between kasumi and hon-kasumi.'

Does Yoshihiro know Jon's dissing their name brand which is sold in their own shop less than 2 miles from his? Does Jon have as much R&D invested in SKD11 steel as Yoshihiro? 

People act like we're supposed to trust the community here. -That would be stupid. Advertising isn't limited to commercial breaks, billboards, popup ads, etc. You won't discover how people like I have recovered from auto-immune diseases like fibromyalgia and lupus by reading the populated health forums because the pharmaceutical companies are controlling those forums. 

By suggesting readers should trust forum members blindly; you're causing damage. You're filling this thread with faith based fluff. I could come up with better responses than you like suggesting readers do their own web research outside of this forum, suggest they call Yoshihiro and ask them what the difference is, etc. You don't help your case one bit. Anyone experienced in forums is going to recognize the bias, the founding members, and the mantra.


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## JBroida

the_edge said:


> A very strange assertion would be this:
> 
> 'The line we carry (now Gesshin Uraku) had better fit and finish, better consistency of grind, less issues with warping, less high and low spots, and in my experience a better heat treatment... Kind of like the difference between kasumi and hon-kasumi.'
> 
> Does Yoshihiro know Jon's dissing their name brand which is sold in their own shop less than 2 miles from his? Does Jon have as much R&D invested in SKD11 steel as Yoshihiro?
> 
> People act like we're supposed to trust the community here. -That would be stupid. Advertising isn't limited to commercial breaks, billboards, popup ads, etc. You won't discover how people like I have recovered from auto-immune diseases like fibromyalgia and lupus by reading the populated health forums because the pharmaceutical companies are controlling those forums.
> 
> By suggesting readers should trust forum members blindly; you're causing damage. You're filling this thread with faith based fluff. I could come up with better responses than you like suggesting readers do their own web research outside of this forum, suggest they call Yoshihiro and ask them what the difference is, etc. You don't help your case one bit. Anyone experienced in forums is going to recognize the bias, the founding members, and the mantra.



i'm happy to clear up any questions you might have... see your PM's


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## Matus

I am sure Jon will take care of the technical part of your questions. But you should note, that there is no blind trust involved here. The established vendors here (and that includes Jon) have gained their trust via excellent product quality, support for the customer and knowledge sharing. I would not recommend a vendor I have not dealt with. I have have dealt with Jon on several occasions and his approach to how far is he willing to go to help is without a precedent - and goes well beyond his own product lines. That is my personal experience on all occasions I have been in touch with him.

Maybe you should try to actually talk to the vendors you doubt so highly to find out for yourself before making such negative assumptions. Makes me wonder what kind of fora did you frequent before coming to KKF, if that is what you expect from the vendors here.


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## Pensacola Tiger

Faith involves believing in something without evidence.

Hardly the case here.


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## Timthebeaver

A thread that started with a great review completely ruined. This needs to be locked and/or binned.


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## Lefty

Reminds me a bit of the last review I did. I'm not sure why this keeps happening around here.

All I can say is that Jon is one hell of a vendor - Easily the best I've dealt with (along with Joe over at Italian Barber, for different goods). I can't say for sure whether or not his Gesshin line is better than the stock knives, but if he swears it to be true, and the experienced members here (such as Dave and Rick) say it to be true, then I believe it, 100%.


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## Mute-on

Sorry. Not worth it.


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## Matus

Apparently some clean-up took place. Thanks you mods.


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## daveb

Thanks for the review and comments. This one seems to have pretty much run it's course.


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