# Carter Funayuki - Big Chips



## droshi (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi All, wanted to see what you all think I should do with an older Carter (carbon wrapped in stainless). My father-in-law was using it to break bones and now it has a medium sized chip and large chip (just into the stainless).

Can this be repaired? Should I sell it to someone cheap who would be interested to try it as a project? Just trash it?

I'll post some pics up tonight when I get back home, forgot they were on my digital camera. I know it may be hard to give a recommendation without seeing!


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## tripleq (Oct 16, 2013)

Yup. Gonna need pics.


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## Marko Tsourkan (Oct 16, 2013)

droshi said:


> Hi All, wanted to see what you all think I should do with an older Carter (carbon wrapped in stainless). My father-in-law was using it to break bones and now it has a medium sized chip and large chip (just into the stainless).
> 
> Can this be repaired? Should I sell it to someone cheap who would be interested to try it as a project? Just trash it?
> 
> I'll post some pics up tonight when I get back home, forgot they were on my digital camera. I know it may be hard to give a recommendation without seeing!



It can be repaired but if the chipping is substantial, the knife will need to be reprofiled and thinned (ideally reground, to get back to factory geometry), becoming a smaller knife in the process.


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## Mucho Bocho (Oct 16, 2013)

Droshi, I can't comment on the repair, but my first thought (im sure many others), WHAT MADE YOU THINK USING A CARTER FOR CHOPPING BONES WAS A GOOD IDEA?

:dontknow:

Sorry had to get that off my mind.

BTW, Welcome to the Forum


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## ramenlegend (Oct 16, 2013)

always the father in law, ha! also if fixing it seems like too much of a hassle and you want to sell it, send me a pm!!!


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## WildBoar (Oct 16, 2013)

I imagine droshi was just as shocked to see the F-I-L do it as we were to read about it... Had a visitor using my Takeda suji to slice shelled lobster tails a few weeks back. He was enjoying/ loving the knife. I was shelling the tails in the sink next to where he was slicing. I turned my back for a second to grab something off the island behind me, and turned back around to see him with a tail in the shell on the cutting board, and his hand on the way down to smack the spine of the knife and drive the blade into the shell. He managed two quick whacks before he realized I was screaming at him to stop and trying to take the knife out of his hand. Put some chips in the blade and torqued it a bit, but nothing near as bad as what it sounds like droshi's F-I-L did to his knife. Sometimes you just can't stop people before the screw something up.


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## daveb (Oct 16, 2013)

Dave did a thread a year or so ago that surveyed cause of knife damage. As I recall in-laws were the most blamed. FIL is in good company.

Send it off for repair, write the check and put it behind you. The post office is your friend.


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## droshi (Oct 16, 2013)

WildBoar said:


> I imagine droshi was just as shocked to see the F-I-L do it as we were to read about it... Had a visitor using my Takeda suji to slice shelled lobster tails a few weeks back. He was enjoying/ loving the knife. I was shelling the tails in the sink next to where he was slicing. I turned my back for a second to grab something off the island behind me, and turned back around to see him with a tail in the shell on the cutting board, and his hand on the way down to smack the spine of the knife and drive the blade into the shell. He managed two quick whacks before he realized I was screaming at him to stop and trying to take the knife out of his hand. Put some chips in the blade and torqued it a bit, but nothing near as bad as what it sounds like droshi's F-I-L did to his knife. Sometimes you just can't stop people before the screw something up.



Yeah I was at work, the whole in-laws are here for a few weeks. And he decided to cook for the first time in years. 

He's kind of absent minded with that kind of thing, but before any of the daughters could stop him he'd already made the 2 huge divots.


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## droshi (Oct 16, 2013)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> It can be repaired but if the chipping is substantial, the knife will need to be reprofiled and thinned (ideally reground, to get back to factory geometry), becoming a smaller knife in the process.



I'm pretty sure it would need to be reground, the knife height is pretty tall compared to length, but I'll get some measurements in millimeters once I get home including depth of chips.

Thanks for comments this far, at least I can complain to you guys! Anyway he offered to buy a new knife, so good news is an upgrade is in order. He said price I could pick any price, but then retracted those words after realizing how much I could spend! :shocked:


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## cord_steele (Oct 16, 2013)

Now's the time for that Shig kitaeji you've been dreaming of.


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## droshi (Oct 16, 2013)

cord_steele said:


> Now's the time for that Shig kitaeji you've been dreaming of.



Shigs look pretty cool, but I was lusting more for a 330mm ******** Yanagiba...looks like a nice knife. But I still need a workhorse first!

I'm thinking a 240mm SS Heiji Gyuto, other ideas? Honestly the Carter has been so great I haven't looked much into knives lately even though I've been meaning to...


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## droshi (Oct 16, 2013)

droshi said:


> Shigs look pretty cool, but I was lusting more for a 330mm ******** Yanagiba...looks like a nice knife. But I still need a workhorse first!
> 
> I'm thinking a 240mm SS Heiji Gyuto, other ideas? Honestly the Carter has been so great I haven't looked much into knives lately even though I've been meaning to...



I guess black hair lady in Japanese is a bad word? Anyway, the black steel one.... IDK if it's better than a Shig.


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## unkajonet (Oct 16, 2013)

droshi said:


> I guess black hair lady in Japanese is a bad word? Anyway, the black steel one.... IDK if it's better than a Shig.



Heiji is awesome. So is the Gesshin Kagekiyo line. Talk to Jon. I'm sure he can find you something great at a steep enough price that your F-I-L will never touch your stuff again.


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## droshi (Oct 16, 2013)

unkajonet said:


> Heiji is awesome. So is the Gesshin Kagekiyo line. Talk to Jon. I'm sure he can find you something great at a steep enough price that your F-I-L will never touch your stuff again.



Haha! Great idea. I like JKI's selection, and they get great recommendations, but confusing to pick between what's there. I'm not sure when I'll have time to call him and I'm sure there's been the same question before on comparison between lines... can anyone find a link? I've been searching 

I have found that the heiji is a unique grind but performs well. Ginga looks like a good thin stainless line, gengetsu being a good thin behind edge with distal taper. So where do the rest fit?


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## Mucho Bocho (Oct 16, 2013)

Droshi, Give Jon a call Jon at JKI. If nothing else, you'll be able to learn so much. He's a very grounded as well, not schmacny salesmanship, classy is the word i'd use actually. If your going to spend >$300 on a knife, my strategy would be to complete the "Which knife should I Buy" questionnaire posted in forum\thekitchenknife. This way you can spend time talking knives and not characteristics you like, this steel, do you sharpen, cutting board, bal bla bla. 

Also, Hang around the forum and daily knifes of heirloom world class quality will surface for purchase in our BST sub forum. 

Hey, Sorry about your Carter. Seems like your taking it well so good for you. Life is short.


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## cheezit (Oct 16, 2013)

If the blade has significant damage I'd be worried someone else would ruin the temper trying to repair it. *Did you try emailing Murray Carter about it?* He'd probably repair it better than anyone, plus he has that revolving waterwheel. I think he charges $20 for sharpening/repairs.


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## droshi (Oct 16, 2013)

My father in law was pretty worried and asking his kids about the price of a ticket home! But yeah, life is short and it's just a knife (but one I really liked!). At least I got a good deal on it.

I haven't contacted Murray, but that may be a good idea. I'll see what he says.

blade is 188mm (from base of handle) by 49mm (at heel) - 180mm is length from heel to tip

big chip is 7mm x 2.1mm
smaller chip is 5.5mm x 1mm


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## brainsausage (Oct 16, 2013)

Holy s**t...


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## Frater_Decus (Oct 16, 2013)

I cringed.


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## Dave Martell (Oct 16, 2013)

droshi said:


> Shigs look pretty cool, but I was lusting more for a 330mm ******** Yanagiba...looks like a nice knife. But I still need a workhorse first!
> 
> I'm thinking a 240mm SS Heiji Gyuto, other ideas? Honestly the Carter has been so great I haven't looked much into knives lately even though I've been meaning to...





droshi said:


> I guess black hair lady in Japanese is a bad word? Anyway, the black steel one.... IDK if it's better than a Shig.




Black steel is a marketing gimmick. The brand name of these knives has been blocked because the retailer & US distributor of these knives have their links blocked at KKF.


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## Chuckles (Oct 16, 2013)

I don't think that knife is dead yet.


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## tripleq (Oct 16, 2013)

Holy carbon steel batman! She can be saved but it's gonna take a bit of work and you won't have the exact same knife when finished.


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## Lefty (Oct 16, 2013)

Send Murray an email. If you don't want to, I'll contact him for you. It needs to be fixed, and fixed properly. With that being said - she ain't dead yet!


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## EdipisReks (Oct 16, 2013)

That's actually not as bad as I feared it would be. That knife has plenty of life, once fixed correctly.


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## droshi (Oct 16, 2013)

Dave Martell said:


> Black steel is a marketing gimmick. The brand name of these knives has been blocked because the retailer & US distributor of these knives have their links blocked at KKF.



I see.

The good news is that Murray has offered to repair the knife free of charge. He only asks for return shipping amount of $15. Wow what a deal! My father in law was happy but still asks me to buy a new knife as well. I've been showing him the most expensive knives as jokes to raise his blood pressure a little.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 16, 2013)

droshi said:


> I see.
> 
> The good news is that Murray has offered to repair the knife free of charge. He only asks for return shipping amount of $15. Wow what a deal! My father in law was happy but still asks me to buy a new knife as well. I've been showing him the most expensive knives as jokes to raise his blood pressure a little.



Carter Cutlery has some nice paring knives ...


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## ptolemy (Oct 16, 2013)

OMG, don't let the guy near any > $20 knives...


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## brainsausage (Oct 17, 2013)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Carter Cutlery has some nice paring knives ...



Hah!


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## Gravy Power (Oct 17, 2013)

Pretty cool of Murray to fix that guy for the price of shipping...


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## Matus (Oct 17, 2013)

In a few weeks my MiL is coming for a visit - I will take this thread as a warning 

Those chips are on the large side, but given the geometry of the blade it should not make a drastic difference to how the knife will behave after repair.


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## droshi (Oct 17, 2013)

I'm still in the market for a new knife, based on an earlier post, here are my current ideas below. I do plan to call Jon at some point when work slows down for me (I always plan on it being next week, but next week never comes)...
________________
LOCATION
What country are you in?
*USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
*Gyuto or Slicing Cleaver

Are you right or left handed?
*Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
*Wa-Handles Only

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
*240-270mm (gyuto) or 200-230mm (cleaver)

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
*No, but would like a great Semi-Stainless in case wife uses, but she could care for a good patinaed carbon if it's amazing.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
*$500 but would have to be pretty amazing


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
*Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
*Everything except bones & frozen meat. Slicing boneless meat I use a Yanagiba if it's more than a tiny piece.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
* Actually replacing my long lost Hiromoto AS 270mm I got rid of a while back, Carter filled the bill pretty well, especially since my wife likes that length better than the 270mm

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
* Not much into pinch grip anymore, but maybe this was because the Carter was pretty short at 180mm

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
* Push cut mostly, sometimes slicing

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
* Would love something that is amazing...  Cutting feel, sharpening feel, ease of cutting....

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
* I love the look of the Heiji...

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
* Not really sure I care a whole lot about this, but of course nicer F&F is always better...I usually just don't want to pay for it and would rather put the money into the steel and heat treat.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
* Good at push cutting and nice food release would be great. I can touch up pretty regularly, but if major sharpening is required weekly I usually get lazy.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
* Forever? But really, as long as it's not weekly with light home use and sharpens easily I should be fine.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
* End Grain Maple (boardsmith)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
* Yes, many stones, but rarely get them all out for a session unless it's been several months. I try to touch up 1-2 times per month my set. Most stones end up being used for razors.


Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
* A bit...but probably will buy more stones after I acquire a nicer Yanagiba


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
* I love the Heiji look, and lots of people seem to like it
* Takeda AS cleaver has always looked pretty awesome....not being willing to put up the cash in the past I tried out a AEB-L cleaver from the HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED site...they compared it to the CCK, but when getting the knife it's thickness (behind edge) was like comparing the thickness of a hair to the thickness of my table. At least he took it back promptly, sad part is I waiting for months.
* Overall, because the Carter must go back now and may come back a different knife, I'd really like to purchase something available today.

Also, big thanks to everyone for their PMs offering to buy, was great to know the option was there. Glad no one at the house tossed the knife. But I'll be sending it back.


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## droshi (Oct 17, 2013)

Another couple options:
(1) Gesshin Gengetsu 240 white #2 up on BST now...I'm sure it won't last, and almost pulled the trigger a couple times, but I just don't know that much about it
(2) Konosuke HD2 Funayuki/Gyuto? I've kinda found out the funayuki is flatter belly, but can't find one for sale at the moment...But I think some shops in canada carry kono's


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## Anton (Oct 17, 2013)

The gengetsu currently on BST is a great deal on a great knife. Do some searches here, it has been very well reviewed.


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## bear1889 (Oct 17, 2013)

Holy s..t! How did you show restraint? He is still alive correct?


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## Miles (Oct 18, 2013)

It's definitely something which can be repaired. Truthfully, although it's easy enough, I think letting Murray take care of it is the best thing. The knife will be different, almost as if you'd used it for ten years or so, but it will be fine at the end of the day and repaired by the same hands that formed it, so I think you'll get the best possible expression of the repaired blade, if that makes sense (?). I've done a few serious repairs over the years after accidents and occasional bouts of stupidity on the part of the users. I have seen much worse. This isn't nearly as bad as I had expected.


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## ChiliPepper (Oct 18, 2013)

That knife has plenty of belly, even accounting for the repair, you'll end up with a very serviceable knife for many years to come. And if Murray Carter is doing the job it will be perfectly fine. Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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## droshi (Oct 18, 2013)

Will report back with pics once it comes back from it's maker! But as all mentioned, I'm sure it will work just fine.

In the meantime, I picked up the Gengetsu White #2 on BST. Since it was a bit under budget, I'm in the market for a nice stainless petty laser. Will mostly use for cutting fruit and random small tasks, but I hear lots of people like their pettys, so maybe it will end up being used for more. Any ideas? Right now top contender in my mind is the Gesshin Ginga stainless.


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## RobinW (Oct 18, 2013)

Glad Murray is taking on hte job. I'm sure the knife will be fine afterwards. Either way i would pick a reasonably expensive knife just to make sure the FIL does not do it again.
On the other hand my fathers new wife came for a visit and while i was at work she left my Takeda petty soaking in the sing full of water. I spent quite a while trying to refinish it. No mention of getting me something else. She never mentioned the incident at all actually. My wife got to tell the story....


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## Notaskinnychef (Oct 18, 2013)

I'd love to see the final pics/specs of this knife once its returned to you and repaired.


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## bkdc (Oct 22, 2013)

Holy S**T is right. You need to tell your father in law how much that knife costs. You can very nicely tell him that what he did to your knife is the same as if you took his prized guitar (or whatever his prized possession is) and bashed it against the wall.


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## droshi (Nov 9, 2013)

Murray worked his magic...even with the before and after in the same picture!


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## tripleq (Nov 9, 2013)

What does your father-in-law think of it? Or have you even let him see the picture?


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## droshi (Nov 9, 2013)

Haven't sent yet! You guys are the first to see....I got a couple new knives out of the ordeal as well, so overall not bad


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## stereo.pete (Nov 9, 2013)

Gotta love Murray!


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## CompE (Nov 9, 2013)

Fake! That photo was shopped!



droshi said:


> Murray worked his magic...even with the before and after in the same picture!


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## split0101 (Nov 9, 2013)

Wow looks good as new.


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## droshi (Nov 9, 2013)

Once I get it back I'll post new measurements, but I can see a bit of difference in height and profile.


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## EdipisReks (Nov 9, 2013)

split0101 said:


> Wow looks good as new.



Yeah, it really does look brand new.


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## Don Nguyen (Nov 9, 2013)

He said the repairs took 6 minutes. Pretty neat.


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## droshi (Nov 9, 2013)

Don Nguyen said:


> He said the repairs took 6 minutes. Pretty neat.



Really? He didn't mention that to me. But after they received it was about a day before I got that picture.


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## bahamaroot (Nov 9, 2013)

That Murry is one classy dude! :thumbsup:


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## Don Nguyen (Nov 9, 2013)

droshi said:


> Really? He didn't mention that to me. But after they received it was about a day before I got that picture.



It was posted on his facebook page, and said total time involved was 6 minutes.


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## droshi (Nov 9, 2013)

Don Nguyen said:


> It was posted on his facebook page, and said total time involved was 6 minutes.



Oh nice! Thanks for the info, wasn't sure where you were getting is all.


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## EdipisReks (Nov 9, 2013)

Don Nguyen said:


> It was posted on his facebook page, and said total time involved was 6 minutes.



That doesn't surprise me. I do lots of stuff to knives that would take way, way less time if I weren't doing it by hand on stones. I bet the knife will cut better than new, as I think I see some serious thinning work.


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## Lefty (Nov 9, 2013)

Murray is one of the best, and this knife is gonna be incredible...again....


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## RobinW (Nov 10, 2013)

Very cool! That looks as new, but now with a story behind it it's even nicer!


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