# Guys, it appears we have been lied to.



## inferno (Feb 23, 2019)

While cruising the world wide interwebs I came across videos of this sharpener. And then I understood we have all been doing it wrong for all these years. Wasted all that money on bricks that we pour water on.


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## Walla (Feb 23, 2019)

This is what knife sharpening looks like to the average person...and sadly even to most professional cooks...


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## CoteRotie (Feb 23, 2019)

Awww wow, in the second video where he talks about grinding the dull knife hard into one of the "pins" it makes my teeth hurt.


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## HRC_64 (Feb 23, 2019)

>youtu.be/1djw4VYHpqQ?t=264
damn


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## OldJoeClarke (Feb 24, 2019)

That is plain nasty, that noise Aarrrgh.


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## bahamaroot (Feb 24, 2019)

I can't believe people actually pay $20-25 for one of those $2 sharpeners, that dude is a genius!


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## never mind (Feb 24, 2019)

Showmanship? How about this:


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## Ruso (Feb 24, 2019)

Did he almost took his eye off at 2:43-44 (2nd video) 0-O


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## Michi (Feb 24, 2019)

never mind said:


> Showmanship? How about this:


Funny how some things never change, regardless of culture. That hawker is exactly the same as any number of hawkers at various markets all around the world, flogging whatever cheap thing he wants to get rid of, whether it's a knife, a patent peeler, a miracle non-stick pan, or any other number of things. I've seen almost identical sales technique in Africa, Germany, Australia, you name it…

Showmanship is everything in sales


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## never mind (Feb 25, 2019)

Good lord!


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## Bert2368 (Feb 25, 2019)

I understand the reaction to the first couple of videos, what that tool /method seems like to experienced, competent sharpeners- and to those who make knives.

But "it doesn't break my leg or pick my pocket". And possibly he is making a living off of gun & knife show sales of this tool.

I have gotten old enough to realize I don't know everything there is to about ANNYTHING. I wish I was 17 again sometimes, I knew a LOT more things for certain back then!

Anyhow.

I left Mr. Block sharpener a couple of links, including "the sharpening station" here and "the science of sharp". It seemed to me more constructive than busting the man's balls over sales to consenting adults he may need to make his living.

Maybe he will learn something? 

Maybe I will?

There is something to be learned from EVERYONE if you take the time.

I admit, sometimes it's a "holy crap, I may be relatively better at this thing I do as an amateur than some (or lots) of people nominally in the business are" kind of lesson, but still.


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## Mucho Bocho (Feb 25, 2019)

Well said Bert.


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## Michi (Feb 25, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> I have gotten old enough to realize I don't know everything there is to about ANNYTHING.


An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until finally he knows everything about nothing


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## psfred (Feb 25, 2019)

I look at things like this in the following manner:

Compared to NEVER sharpening knives, these contraptions WILL put a reasonable edge on cheap department store (or Target) knives, and any decent edge has to be an improvement over what you get from putting them in the dishwasher and beating the edge up. Sure, the edge won't last, the knives it will be used on aren't great, but sharper is better than dull

Any kind of sharpening is better than none, and once someone tries one of those pull through things (or spring loaded, or whatever) and finds it's OK but not great, they are open to actually learning to properly sharpen knives, and better yet, that there are better knives out there. Sort of a gateway drug....

For many people a Victorinox Fibrox chef's knife is enough of a challenge, no need to beat them up for not using a $500 hand made guyto.


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## Bert2368 (Feb 25, 2019)

My 3 nieces are all camped out at Grandma's and working/going to school.

Younger brother gave youngest niece a Victorinox Fibrox chef knife last November for her 18th B day.

A couple of years back, he had given the oldest niece the carbon steel cored wa handled pettit knife I made my first post here about.

I gave middle niece a Fujitora DP VG-10 core gyuto this past Christmas.

I also taught nephew who lives nearby how to use water stones and sharpen knives this last Thanksgiving...

They have all the pieces. I'll let the next generation work it out at their own pace.


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## JustinP (Feb 26, 2019)

psfred said:


> Any kind of sharpening is better than none.



Not always, some of these cheap sharpeners will mangle your blade. Don't ask me how I know . We were all young and dumb once. Well, all young at least, and just some of us dumb.


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## bahamaroot (Feb 26, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> I understand the reaction to the first couple of videos, what that tool /method seems like to experienced, competent sharpeners- and to those who make knives.
> 
> But "it doesn't break my leg or pick my pocket". And possibly he is making a living off of gun & knife show sales of this tool.
> 
> ...


He is still charging $20-$25 for something that cost no more and is no better than this....






for $4...


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## Bert2368 (Feb 26, 2019)

The $5.00 tool above is still more expensive than it is worth, in my opinion.

Mr. Block claims his is special because it flexes to match the tool's original bevel. Can't say, I haven't tried. As noted elsewhere, there are more versatile sharpening solutions available to me for $20. But I know how to do things the people who would choose the "The Block" don't.

Expecting most people to learn how to do something for which they would need to buy perhaps 20 to $30 in equipment and then requires hand/eye coordination, developing a "feel", then regular practice and some deductive thinking? Which probably doesn't lead money or fame, just easier/better kitchen knife use? When a majority don't even know HOW to cook as most here would prefer to define "cooking"?!

Lost cause.

There is this very common modern thing, people who can communicate with others on the internet with similar (not universal, or even common) interests start to think their interests are normal and average because now the know of a lot of others with the same interests.

Like "my little pony" video binge watching by adult males? Furry sex? Libertarianism? Perfectionistic Japanese style cutlery and ammasing/learning to correctly use traditional natural Japanese sharpening stones?

WHATEVER. I won't judge you, just do it in private (and wash your hands & the keyboard afterwards).

If I were going to spend $25 on a quick & dirty, small volume, easy to pack along, makes everything at least a bit sharper with no water or oil needed sharpening tool?

I'd probaly just get one of these carbide tools.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43072&p=66738


( Sorry for the internet rant, I have some ISSUES)


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## Michi (Feb 26, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> There is this very common modern thing, people who can communicate with others on the internet with similar (not universal, or even common) interests start to think their interests are normal and average because now the know of a lot of others with the same interests.


That's known as the "echo chamber effect".

I feel bad watching a video such as this too, and it makes me cringe. But then, for many households, that's the only sharpener they'll ever have, and that's better than no sharpener at all (which is what you'll find—or rather, _not_ find—in the majority of households).

Michi.


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## Cyrilix (Feb 27, 2019)

Michi said:


> That's known as the "echo chamber effect".
> 
> I feel bad watching a video such as this too, and it makes me cringe. But then, for many households, that's the only sharpener they'll ever have, and that's better than no sharpener at all (which is what you'll find—or rather, _not_ find—in the majority of households).
> 
> Michi.


Echo chamber effect is very real on forums like these, especially when it comes to people making recommendations on things they don't own or have never used. I see this less over here than on Reddit, but Reddit is full of lazy recommendations but probably also partially because the volume of recommendations solicited here is lower.


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## Ruso (Feb 27, 2019)

^Thats because quality of posts here >>> Reddit


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## Cyrilix (Feb 27, 2019)

Ruso said:


> ^Thats because quality of posts here >>> Reddit



One of the differences between you guys here and Reddit is that KKF members, on average, are rich AF and often sport collections full of mizu honyaki or custom maker blades.

That's not a bad thing, when I want to learn about those types of knives, but for the individual looking for value for dollar, the lower price range equipment is less frequently discussed ($100-$250).


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## Xenif (Feb 27, 2019)

Cyrilix said:


> One of the differences between you guys here and Reddit is that KKF members, on average, are rich AF and often sport collections full of mizu honyaki or custom maker blades.
> 
> That's not a bad thing, when I want to learn about those types of knives, but for the individual looking for value for dollar, the lower price range equipment is less frequently discussed ($100-$250).


Im sorry but I disagree with that. KKF members are not all "Rich AF", although some members are, I feel the vast majority are not. Sure there are people with a lot of money and just have a collection of honyaki for show, but I felt many of the members here have "worked their way up" usually from lesser knives, to say their collective knowledge and experience is due to financial means ... Kind of spits in their collective faces ....
Instead, I would say the average KKFer is more willing to read old articles, learn, discuss, re-discuss, explore deeper into a subject. Silly suggestions here will get the frown, inaccurate information (sometimes) gets corrected by people with much much more experience and credentials. 
Also, there are many great knives between $100-250 that gets discussed here such as Shigeki Tanaka, Wakui, Kaeru, Mazaki, Yu Kurosaki, Misono, just to name a few.


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## Bert2368 (Feb 27, 2019)

Cyrilix said:


> KKF members, on average, are rich AF and often sport collections full of mizu honyaki or custom maker blades.



Perhaps you select which posts to read based on your interest in nice(r) tools?

Who can blame you! I too like to learn about cool stuff I'll never be able to afford.

I never have bought any of those prestige name Japanese knives or heirloom quality waterstones with brushed calligraphy provenances...

My high end covered a couple of knives (on sale!) from Fujitora. On a GOOD day, I have to pinch pennies until they scream. Most days, all I have the budget to do is window shop.

Have you seen my posts about products I have tried and comments on how cheap a tool may be and still work adequately?

Under $10 full sized chef knives?

(Turned out to be TOO cheap, sorry I went there)

Under $20 fixed blade hunting knives?

(I've been VERY happy with several from Mora)

Under $30 folders?

(Got several I am happy with, some Chinese brands do an amazing job- Eafengrow, Ganzo/Firebird)

"Forgotten about by the cool guys in the first/second worlds" natural sharpening stones?

(Still waiting on some deliveries from Mexico, Tibet, Czech republic)

Beating the bushes in Eastern Europe/Russia for tools made by smiths who never quit making the cutting tools their 19th century grandparents made and never raised the prices much either?

(Got some hand forged timber framing and woodworking cutting tools from Russian Federation, Bulgaria, Slovakia and the Czech republic- HOORAY for old Warsaw pact army truck leaf springs!)

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I'll post links to my bargain basement stuff finds if anyone wants them.


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## Ruso (Feb 27, 2019)

Cyrilix said:


> One of the differences between you guys here and Reddit is that KKF members, on average, are rich AF and often sport collections full of mizu honyaki or custom maker blades.
> 
> That's not a bad thing, when I want to learn about those types of knives, but for the individual looking for value for dollar, the lower price range equipment is less frequently discussed ($100-$250).



I think $150-$350($400) is the most discussed range of knives here.
In all the years, I never felt like this place is full of rich people. I belive average KKFer will fall under middle class. There are few outliners but mostly very passionate people about this hobby.
I think you need to stick around for a bit longer and see it for your self.


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## McMan (Feb 27, 2019)

Xenif said:


> Im sorry but I disagree with that. KKF members are not all "Rich AF", although some members are, I feel the vast majority are not. Sure there are people with a lot of money and just have a collection of honyaki for show, but I felt many of the members here have "worked their way up" usually from lesser knives, to say their collective knowledge and experience is due to financial means ... Kind of spits in their collective faces ....
> Instead, I would say the average KKFer is more willing to read old articles, learn, discuss, re-discuss, explore deeper into a subject. Silly suggestions here will get the frown, inaccurate information (sometimes) gets corrected by people with much much more experience and credentials.
> Also, there are many great knives between $100-250 that gets discussed here such as Shigeki Tanaka, Wakui, Kaeru, Mazaki, Yu Kurosaki, Misono, just to name a few.


Xenif et al. make good points. Sure, people have some impressive knives--but it's not like they're stropping them on burning $100 bills... Conspicuous consumption doesn't go a long way here--that sort of superficial showiness would get called out quickfast in a hurry...

There is so much info on KKF, I look at it as a repository of knowledge more than just a discussion board. It's a deep resource--encyclopedic. There is an abundant amount of information on $100-$250 knives, but it just requires using the "search" feature to get at. Knives in this bracket have been reviewed/discussed a ton. The thread on Mazaki alone was like 30,000 pages! Before that it was comparison of Tanaka grinds, Wakui vs. the midweights, etc. etc.


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## inferno (Feb 27, 2019)

I think most people on the forums is from western countries and probably have jobs so spending a few hundred for a knife is no big deal. My own knives cost from about 70-250€. Then I customize them myself instead. Much more fun in that imo. Yeah sure i have about 10 of them now but still.

Not really into customs or honyakis so that makes them cheaper. I gave away a few good customized knives. And stones. And stone holders. No big deal really.



Regarding cheap sharpeners: for ultra cheap I would go with a "steel", or some cheap crap hardware store stone. Or one of those minosharp roller copys.

Stepping it up a bit I would get 1 cheap diamond plate for about 10-15€ and a cheap ceramic rod/steel.

And for free you could use a brick or the underside of a tea cup. Or a sandpaper.

And I would prefer all these methods over simply *scraping* off metal to form a new edge. the fuxxing horror!!!
And if I actually were into scraping metal off the edge I would go the the nearest machine shop and ask for a "carbide insert". Specifically a long pointy one for a lathe, and specifically a sandvik one. Screw it to a piece of wood. done. will last for life.

But to be honest the king of cheap sharpeners is the Spyderco sharpmaker. Anyone can use it, no skill required at all and it will produce results at least 10 times better than the block one I'd guess. I have had mine for over 10 years and it works very well. Its just that its slow. But hey if you only have 1 knife that you need to keep sharp and sharpen it once a month or so. This thing can make it truly scary sharp. A sharpmaker is less than 70 bux retail.


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## Nemo (Feb 27, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> I'll post links to my bargain basement stuff finds if anyone wants them.



Sounds like a great idea for a new thread [emoji106]


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## Nemo (Feb 27, 2019)

Cyrilix said:


> Echo chamber effect is very real on forums like these, especially when it comes to people making recommendations on things they don't own or have never used. I see this less over here than on Reddit, but Reddit is full of lazy recommendations but probably also partially because the volume of recommendations solicited here is lower.



Yeah, it's prudent to recommend things that you have used. If you do recommend someone else's recommendation, make it clear that that is what you are doing.


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## Cyrilix (Feb 27, 2019)

Guys, don't read too much into my post. Yes, I do sometimes read those "show off your gear" subforum posts and I see so much amazing stuff. Also, I see a lot of discussion with their higher end Fujiyama line, expensive Toyama, Katos, Ikedas, Konosukes, etc., so it does color my viewpoint of this forum because I don't see nearly as much of this discussion in Reddit. You got to realize I'm using Reddit as a comparison. That's not to say I don't like KKF or Reddit, just to say that I find the price point here overall to be higher. Nothing right or wrong with that. I would be quite flattered if someone said I was rich AF so please don't take it offensively. In fact, I wish I were in that category of people, able to appreciate and afford at the same time.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 28, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> My 3 nieces are all camped out at Grandma's and working/going to school.
> 
> Younger brother gave youngest niece a Victorinox Fibrox chef knife last November for her 18th B day.
> 
> ...



Good keep it going. Many of my relatives are decent free hand sharpeners. I know some of the cooks & culinary students I have taught have taught others. It is still a small %. Most people are clueless. Just word of mouth get people asking me to sharpen their knives, all are stainless and many in dishwashers with rust & overheated handles. Here many are those old Mac knives with round tips & the hole in the blade to hang it on a nail. Some of the older larger mac knives had ebony handles. I clean up the handles & blades before sharpen, figure these old Macs are worth saving. When they pick them up I give a short easy lesson in knife care.


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