# Greed



## rick_english (Dec 16, 2021)

I've bought a couple dozen knives on BST over the years, and sold a few. Lately I've noticed a trend: people getting greedy. Here's an example: a seller put a knife up at X price. I PM'd him and said I'd take it. He replied and said the price would be X + PayPal fees. I reminded him that according to BST rules, prices should include fees. He said okay, the price is X + shipping. At that point I dropped out.

Here's the thing: a few days later he lowered the price *15%*. If he had accepted my initial full-price offer, PayPal would have taken *3.6%*.

Independent of fees, it seems to me that people are asking more and more ridiculous prices for knives, then dropping them repeatedly until they sell (or don't). One could argue that "it's all part of the negotiation game," but I think it's just a sign of rampant greed. 

There are some great sellers here to be sure: they have good descriptions of the knife, show pics of both sides of the blade, and sell the knife for less than they paid. These guys are increasingly in the minority though, with the standard becoming daily price drops and a dozen bumps.

/rant


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## tcmx3 (Dec 16, 2021)

rick_english said:


> I've bought a couple dozen knives on BST over the years, and sold a few. Lately I've noticed a trend: people getting greedy. Here's an example: a seller put a knife up at X price. I PM'd him and said I'd take it. He replied and said the price would be X + PayPal fees. I reminded him that according to BST rules, prices should include fees. He said okay, the price is X + shipping. At that point I dropped out.
> 
> Here's the thing: a few days later he lowered the price *15%*. If he had accepted my initial full-price offer, PayPal would have taken *3.6%*.
> 
> ...



Rick Im really sympathetic, and let me be clear that if I had that interaction with someone that you described I would run away too.

but Im not sure that the current rash of price drops and bumps is always due to people asking too much. there are knives and stones up on BST at like, 60% of retail where you can tell from the pictures that they have very low miles on them, and they dont move, and some things are going instantly even when marked up. meanwhile, dealers cant keep new stock and some are charging like, 90% of retail for trade-ins.

Im not sure it's greed when I see "I paid this much" in a post. this phrase (or thereabouts) triggers the absolute bajeezers out of me because it just drips of entitlement, but I dont think most of the folks who can swing the expensive stuff want to squeeze an extra 15 dollars out of their knife. I think their ego is blocking them from going under an amount they deem "correct".

JMO


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## Rameka (Dec 16, 2021)

Just piling on here, I love when folks write "this is the FINAL price drop!" and then sure enough, a few weeks later, post again to lower the price more.

In all seriousness though, I think with the world entering late-stage capitalism and all, people are just hoping they'll get lucky and sell their knife/stone to someone with way too much cash to burn. Everyone's looking to make a quick buck, integrity be damned.


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## tostadas (Dec 16, 2021)

Rameka said:


> Just piling on here, I love when folks write "this is the FINAL price drop!" and then sure enough, a few weeks later, post again to lower the price more.
> 
> In all seriousness though, I think with the world entering late-stage capitalism and all, people are just hoping they'll get lucky and sell their knife/stone to someone with way too much cash to burn. Everyone's looking to make a quick buck, integrity be damned.


Haha, just read this right after I posted with almost literally the exact words. But I stand by my statements


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 16, 2021)

Hmm… our famous "agent007" isn't on forums anymore, yet we have this thread started.

Maybe it's just that times has changed? I bought a 210 Shigefusa for 300$ + shipping back then. Tweaked and sold it later for about same money. These day anything with Shige kanji costs half a billion (even though Shigs aren't that good performers). And then there was a period when I seriously needed cash and had to sell all my unicorns at a significant loss. These days I'm mostly drooling over others people knives in BST.

What's wrong with price bumps? Imagine I have a knife to sell. And I believe 250 bucks is a fair price. So I list it and nothing happens for a week. Ok, I'd lower price to 230 and see how it goes. Once I hit my psychological limit (of lets say 200) I'll make a final price drop. And if it doesn't sell after that… what can I do? Lower price or withdraw it. Some people just prefer to lower price again. At least that's how I see it.


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## Rameka (Dec 16, 2021)

I just think there are ways of lowering the price without leaving a story in the post history detailing your psychological flip-flopping (which can/will discourage potential buyers) 
A simple "bump" with an edit to your price to show the price *new price* works, right?


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## rick_english (Dec 16, 2021)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> What's wrong with price bumps? Image I have a knife to sell. And I believe 250 bucks is a fair price. So I list it and nothing happens for a week. Ok, I'd lower price to 230 and so how it goes. Once I hit my psychological limit (of lets say 200) I'll make a final price drop. And if it doesn't sell after that… what can I do? Lower price or withdraw it. Some people just prefer to lower price again. At least that's how I see it.


That's a fair point of view. It just seems to me that people are lazy in addition to being greedy. It takes a lot of work to look up past sales of a given knife, take inflation into account, and come up with a price that's reasonable and will move the knife quickly. Instead I believe a lot of people just think "Hmmm....this knife is probably worth $300, so I'll put it up at $500 and see what happens."


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## rick_english (Dec 16, 2021)

Rameka said:


> I just think there are ways of lowering the price without leaving a story in the post history detailing your psychological flip-flopping (which can/will discourage potential buyers)
> A simple "bump" with an edit to your price to show the price *new price* works, right?


A single bump is fine. I do get tired of the "threats": "Final price drop!! If this knife doesn't sell by tomorrow, I'm just going to keep it!"


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## superworrier (Dec 16, 2021)

rick_english said:


> That's a fair point of view. It just seems to me that people are lazy in addition to being greedy. It takes a lot of work to look up past sales of a given knife, take inflation into account, and come up with a price that's reasonable and will move the knife quickly. Instead I believe a lot of people just think "Hmmm....this knife is probably worth $300, so I'll put it up at $500 and see what happens."


I don't think this is true. The knife market is not very liquid (especially during the holidays) so prices between sales can vary a lot. I see a ton of knives at great prices just sitting on BST right now, which I would expect to sell quickly otherwise. 

I see the main point of "I paid this much" is to show that they aren't making a profit. Especially when there are flippers. There's been a Kono FM Damascus sitting on ebay for a few months for a low, low price of... 1500 dollars


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## superworrier (Dec 16, 2021)

Another thing to note, sometimes it's just about waiting for the right buyer rather than needing to lower your price, but it can be unclear. Underpriced knives selling fast would only be the result of flippers but right now I think it's not the case, because there are many underpriced knives sitting, because the right buyer isn't there.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 16, 2021)

If only there already was a lengthy thread of people complaining about price hikes and flippers...

Late stage capitalism. 

If you don't like the prices or the way a seller conducts his sales, don't buy. If a seller breaks the rules, report them.


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## Rameka (Dec 16, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> If only there already was a lengthy thread of people complaining about price hikes and flippers...
> 
> Late stage capitalism.
> 
> If you don't like the prices or the way a seller conducts his sales, don't buy. If a seller breaks the rules, report them.



You seem like the kind of guy who would wear a suit to a mud party.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 16, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Late stage capitalism.



when the world entered the bronze age, all the people who kept their copper armaments also entered it, whether they wanted to or not.

we've been in the period since the second world war, definitionally. eye rolling at the term is the same as eye rolling at "21st century"


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## JDC (Dec 16, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> If only there already was a lengthy thread of people complaining about price hikes and flippers...
> 
> Late stage capitalism.
> 
> If you don't like the prices or the way a seller conducts his sales, don't buy. If a seller breaks the rules, report them.


Yes the BST rules are there for a reason. If a seller respects that, he/she can do whatever at will and let the free market decide whether or not it will work. 
I don't know if people are in general asking for higher prices recently, but what I feel is the demand side has diminished compares to a few months ago. Many people I know have slowed down in buying knives and stones.


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## Rameka (Dec 16, 2021)

JDC said:


> Many people I know have slowed down in buying knives and stones.



I wonder if that is just a reflection of the broader global markets slowing down, or if it's specifically a knife market thing


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## JDC (Dec 16, 2021)

Rameka said:


> I wonder if that is just a reflection of the broader global markets slowing down, or if it's specifically a knife market thing


While, they still buy other things, just not knife-related. I guess the shortage of supply in the knife world during covid incited panic purchases. Now many people did that need to take a rest.


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## superworrier (Dec 16, 2021)

I was thinking people are spending more on gifts so less on knives. Still, new knives are flying off the shelves. It could be that people are now seeking rarer knives


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## BillHanna (Dec 16, 2021)




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## esoo (Dec 16, 2021)

As someone with two knives up on the BST right now, I can say that
- I try to only bump my knives around once a week, just to keep them from being lost on the third or more page back
- I have just recently said I'm not going to drop the price anymore because I'm not. I'm already losing >25% on a knife I used under 5 times. But I agree the "threats" are ridiculous and kinda funny in a way.

But that's just my ethos - I try to overstate flaws, I discount decently, and I follow up on the knife until it's in the buyer's hands. I want my buyers to be happy with the transaction. That way I feel more happy going onto my next purchase.

I know some people just are trying to turn a buck. Market dictates if that works for them.


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## spaceconvoy (Dec 16, 2021)

Rameka said:


> I just think there are ways of lowering the price without leaving a story in the post history detailing your psychological flip-flopping (which can/will discourage potential buyers)
> A simple "bump" with an edit to your price to show the price *new price* works, right?


+1 just tell us about the knife and list the price.

Another thing that irritates me is when people feel the need to tell a story about how they would love to keep this but "I need to make room on my rack/my wife says I have too many/need money for a brain transplant/etc." No one really believe you.

I mean, you might be facing those problems, but why did you decide to sell this knife in particular? Because you like it less than the others you own, plain and simple. Are people so afraid that implying they didn't like a knife would scare off potential buyers? We're all adults here, we understand how this works and we don't need an explanation.

It's especially irritating when they've crafted whole paragraphs of a story but don't bother to take spine/choil pics or list weight and dimensions. Let's focus on the knife instead of your personal life, please.


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## Jason183 (Dec 16, 2021)

Some ppl just don’t do their research before selling knives, it can be extremely expensive or cheaper than original price. 

I had one guy promised me selling the Gesshin Ginga for about $200, and then few days later he created a new post raised the price to $300, his reason was someone messaging him said it’s too cheap so he changed his mind. This is the only negative experience I had in B/S/T. Sad thing is you can’t punish sellers for doing such thing, you can’t post negative comments either, that sucks.


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## captaincaed (Dec 16, 2021)

rick_english said:


> A single bump is fine. I do get tired of the "threats": "Final price drop!! If this knife doesn't sell by tomorrow, I'm just going to keep it!"



Market prices are perennially annoying. Just a nature-of-the beast thing. But this behavior *baffles* me as well. Who's this directed at? What do I owe you?


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## superworrier (Dec 16, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> Market prices are perennially annoying. Just a nature-of-the beast thing. But this behavior *baffles* me as well. Who's this directed at? What do I owe you?


Same reason why a store tells you "Only 1 left in stock" or "5 other people are looking at this" or "Sale ends today"


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## WildBoar (Dec 16, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> It's especially irritating when they've crafted whole paragraphs of a story but don't bother to take spine/choil pics or list weight and dimensions. Let's focus on the knife instead of your personal life, please.


This is the last price drop. If this knife does not sell by this weekend Putin is going to annex it, and I will accidentally fall out a 6 story window. You do not want that hanging on your conscience.


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## McMan (Dec 16, 2021)

I think there are a couple species of bump:
(1) The "I need the money now" bump. Or, in my case, the "I'm going to UPS and would rather let this go cheaper than have to go twice and wait in line twice...."
(2) The de facto Dutch auction. Start at a high price and keep bumping down until someone bites.

I find #2 very annoying. I'm fine with #1.

I have identified a dozen other species of bumps lurking the wilds of BST:

(3) _The anxiety bump_. "Will this ever sell?!!?" bump bump bump bump bump bump bump.
(4) _The annoying Michael Scott bump_. "Bumpity. Blump. Blippity. Bumpity. Boink. Bumpsies. Halloween Bumpkin. Bumpkin pie. Burrrrrump"
(5) _The straight-laced puritanical literalist bump_ (which is the opposite of #4): "To the top".
(6) _The first of the month bump _(aka _the Bone Thugs bump_ in some parts). Hats off to people with this level of organizational skills. The sub-species of this bump is "the bump it every two weeks" bump, which takes perhaps an even higher level of organizational fortitude, especially if the OP is on a Thursday.
(7) _The angry bump_. "This is a really great price! Why is no one buying this?!!!"
(8) _The feigned indignance bump_. "Can't believe this is still here, but..."
(9) _The things are weird bump_, which can be tricky, because it can look a lot like the "feigned indignance" bump but actually be sincere. Sometime there is no reason a knife should still be available at a good price, but there it is languishing. Things are weird sometimes.
(10)_ The nobody wants a great knife because it's not trendy bump_. Eventually, that Shiraki honyaki will be down to $200...
(11) _The more pictures or more specs bump_. Preferred by those of us that are too lazy to spend an hour making a BST post and just hope someone who knows what the knife is and trusts our rep buys it and so prevents us from having to add the additional information and field the "where's the balance point" question from the one guy that always asks it...
(12) _The necro bump_--which is an opportunity lost if not countered by a reference to time travel.


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## Delat (Dec 16, 2021)

You missed the “_This overpriced knife hasn’t sold in 2 weeks so I’m raising the price by $100. Get it now before the price goes up again next week_” bump


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## McMan (Dec 16, 2021)

Delat said:


> You missed the “_This overpriced knife hasn’t sold in 2 weeks so I’m raising the price by $100. Get it now before the price goes up again next week_” bump


Thankfully, this bump is now extinct.


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## Corradobrit1 (Dec 16, 2021)

McMan said:


> Thankfully, this bump is now extinct.


The beige lion begs to differ. This listing possessed every sales tactic known to BST. A true classic





Withdrawn - Tiramisu Fujiwara maboroshi 185x50


Here’s your chance to buy a moderately used maboroshi 185x50 gyuto. Shirogami #1 Cherrywood + horn handle 129 grams. Since I received some questions: I have straightened the blade since it arrived with a curvy edge. I’ve smoothed out some of the irregularities (there’s plenty left for all...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## Dull_Apex (Dec 16, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> It's especially irritating when they've crafted whole paragraphs of a story but don't bother to take spine/choil pics or list weight and dimensions. Let's focus on the knife instead of your personal life, please.


And then "will post pics later"


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## McMan (Dec 16, 2021)

Dull_Apex said:


> And then "will post pics later"





McMan said:


> (11) _The more pictures or more specs bump_. Preferred by those of us that are too lazy to spend an hour making a BST post and just hope someone who knows what the knife is and trusts our rep buys it and so prevents us from having to add the additional information and field the "where's the balance point" question from the one guy that always asks it...


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## Bico Doce (Dec 16, 2021)

While I dont necessarily agree with every sentiment expressed here, I feel like I learned some things about improving my BST posts. A question for those here:
What are your thoughts on adding some text or potentially videos regarding performance? Or should it be just post the specs, price and pics and shut the hell up?


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## ian (Dec 16, 2021)

You know, if you just post 

“240ish Tanaka gyuto for sale for $300”

with no extra content, then you’ll get free bumps fo’ days.

“Y. or S. Tanaka?”

“Core steel and cladding?”

“Does it have a handle?”

“Specs?”

and my favorite:

“I know you said you thinned it a bit on an Atoma, but how many meals did you prep with it before you did that? I need to know how used it is.”


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## esoo (Dec 16, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> While I dont necessarily agree with every sentiment expressed here, I feel like I learned some things about improving my BST posts. A question for those here:
> What are your thoughts on adding some text or potentially videos regarding performance? Or should it be just post the specs, price and pics and shut the hell up?



Performance is always subjective, so it may be hard to get the right tone across. 

Personally, I give the specs, give pictures of every part of the knife and if there is any flaw try to take a pic and point it out. I want my buyers to know the state of the knife the same way I'd look over a knife that came in my door.


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## Bico Doce (Dec 16, 2021)

esoo said:


> Performance is always subjective, so it may be hard to get the right tone across


Absolutely. That’s why I was thinking about maybe offering a cut video featuring some common produce. At the very least you could get a sense of food release and wedging


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 16, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> Absolutely. That’s why I was thinking about maybe offering a cut video featuring some common produce. At the very least you could get a sense of food release and wedging



Well, I mean, not all of us have our own film crew.


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## Bico Doce (Dec 16, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Well, I mean, not all of us have our own film crew.


I spent all of my $$ on the film crew I didn’t have any left to buy oil for my cutting board


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## beanbag (Dec 16, 2021)

rick_english said:


> I've bought a couple dozen knives on BST over the years, and sold a few. Lately I've noticed a trend: people getting greedy. Here's an example: a seller put a knife up at X price. I PM'd him and said I'd take it. He replied and said the price would be X + PayPal fees. I reminded him that according to BST rules, prices should include fees. He said okay, the price is X + shipping. At that point I dropped out.
> 
> Here's the thing: a few days later he lowered the price *15%*. If he had accepted my initial full-price offer, PayPal would have taken *3.6%*.
> 
> ...



I recently had a non-knife experience that reminded me of the saying: "Never attribute to malice what you can to incompetence", or something like that.
The seller wasn't aware of the rules or the total price was unclear. I always ask / bargain based on the total price.


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## Nemo (Dec 16, 2021)

Rameka said:


> In all seriousness though, I think with the world entering late-stage capitalism and all,..



Can you educate me? What is "late-stage capitalism"?

Does it mean that capitalism is about to end?


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## tcmx3 (Dec 16, 2021)

beanbag said:


> I recently had a non-knife experience that reminded me of the saying: "Never attribute to malice what you can to incompetence", or something like that.
> The seller wasn't aware of the rules or the total price was unclear. I always ask / bargain based on the total price.



reading the rules is the bare minimum before selling IMO

the rules are explicitly clear, and it's actually stated in more than one place, regarding paypal fees.

if someone is new to selling (or not frankly), and the rules are right there pinned to the top and they dont read them, then I wouldnt deal with them anyway. huge huge huge red flag.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 16, 2021)

Nemo said:


> Can you educate me? What is "late-stage capitalism"?
> 
> Does it mean that capitalism is about to end?



there's not a single definition for it and it's been in use for about 100 years.

but an acceptable definition is the period of capitalism from WWII onwards in which the gains of productivity increases went primarily to the holders of capital (ie increasing income inequality via concentration at the top ie your favorite version of the graph below), which happens to be a demonstrable fact before anyone goes and accuses me of being political.


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## daveb (Dec 16, 2021)

Guideline to a good BST post.

1 Google one of Pensacola Tiger's old bst posts.
2 Copy it, changing knife, price, pics, as appropriate.
3 Price fairly, do not lower price
4 Only occasional bump
5 Ship promptly, insured, priority mail
6 Grow reputation


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## captaincaed (Dec 17, 2021)

Ashy's posts (and overall seller's approach) are a pretty good template as well.


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## IsoJ (Dec 17, 2021)

Only thing that bothers me are lack of good photos and lazy or unclear answers from the seller.

Agreed with @captaincaed that Ashy's bst posts are good example how to do it.


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## Bico Doce (Dec 17, 2021)

IsoJ said:


> Agreed with @captaincaed that Ashy's bst posts are good example how to do it.


Not that I have an issue or care but looking at Ashy’s last BST but it had a few of faux pas listed here -

A reason why you are selling the knife

Quite a few bumps

Stating you will not go lower and then dropping the price on the next bump/Issuing final drop warning

Again, I’m cool with all of those. It really doesn’t bother me but it seemed to bother a lot of the peeps posting here


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## IsoJ (Dec 17, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> Not that I have an issue or care but looking at Ashy’s last BST but it had a few of faux pas listed here -
> 
> A reason why you are selling the knife
> 
> ...


I meant clear pictures, describe of the knives and how they are used before selling . I am okei with all the bumbs and price drops or whatever stories people like to share related with the knives, the more the merrier as long as they are within the rules.


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## Luftmensch (Dec 17, 2021)

Nemo said:


> Can you educate me? What is "late-stage capitalism"?



@tcmx3's explanation was nice and succinct.

It is being used in the press/popular media a fair bit these days. I have a slightly differing view to @tcmx3 ... although our views are highly related. The meaning has departed from its original economic/philosophical origins. As the wiki article says:



> In the late 2010s, the term began to be used in the United States and Canada to refer to perceived absurdities, contradictions, crises, injustices, and inequality created by modern business development.



Everytime I have read the term it has been in the context of wealth inequality, corporate largesses, corruption and white collar crime. In essence, the different world, rules and expectations faced by the 1% compared to the 99%. Think billionaires using private jets to fly to the most expensive restaurants in the world while somebody in the same country might be lucky to have a bowl of rice. A slap on the wrist for a CEO using insider knowledge to trade (or cooking the books) while a poor person who was unable to pay their parking fines gets thrown in jail.

_*I* think_ you can also view it through a regulation lens. @Nemo... a specific example for you; our Government pursed individuals (99%) to payback JobKeeper overpayments (or Robodebt). Meanwhile they have been digging their feet in and doing everything they can to avoid pursuing large companies (1%) that received the subsidy _and_ turned a profit.

You can see how these two worlds relate to @tcmx3's graph. The economy is more productive but those gains have not been paid to employees (99%) - their income has remained stagnant for decades while the corporate elite (1%) have accumulated massive wealth.


I am cautious about using the term. Since it is hipstery... overuse can water down the significant social problems it is supposed to describe??

BST 'late/end-stage capitalism'? Categorically NO!

This:






... maybe... (although I am loath to use this example; art markets are notoriously inefficient and weird...)


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## superworrier (Dec 17, 2021)

“The Kitchen Knife”


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Dec 17, 2021)

I’ve sold about 40 knives on BST and my most important experience is don’t buy stuff that nobody else is interested if you might want to sell it eventually.


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## daddy yo yo (Dec 17, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I’ve sold about 40 knives on BST and my most important experience is don’t buy stuff that nobody else is interested if you might want to sell it eventually.


True that. But then again it leaves you just with the hype train… And boy, you should never miss to jump off the hype train before it reaches its final destination!


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 17, 2021)

What really grinds me is when people post knives on BST that they never bothered to cut with.
Why the hell have you bought it in the first place? Aren't you at least a tiny bit curious of how it cuts? Pull some cabbages, potatoes, giant carrots or whatever. Spend some time with knife. Sharpen it. Take day off and use it again. See how reactive it is. How bad your fingers hurts cause lazy makers didn't bothered to ease spine/choil. Spend some time with knife. It's a tool not camera model.

Then sell it on BST. 
You don't have to lower price because that knife processed few kilos of carrots. It's what it was built for.
You don't have to lower price if you did a good sharpening job 
Or if you oiled handle. Or eased spine or whatever else. 
It's a tool. A well cared and maintained tool worth something. There's nothing wrong with it.


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## Bico Doce (Dec 17, 2021)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> What really grinds me is when people post knives on BST that they never bothered to cut with.
> Why the hell have you bought it in the first place?


You just read my BST thread where I made an honest effort to incorporate some of the feedback here and you couldn’t resist bashing it.

To answer you question, I bought it to see what it felt like in hand . At the time of the purchase I had different knives available to me then what I have now when I received the knife. I typically test out all of my knives but initially I didn’t want to deal with sharpening it and cleaning it up. And for that matter, in my BST I did concede it was worth taking it for a spin.

You need to cool your jets and chill out. There are some legit point made in this thread, yours to me was not helpful and came off as a rant.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 17, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> You need to cool your jets and chill out. There are some legit point made in this thread, yours to me was not helpful and came off as a rant.



It was a rant indeed! You can't deny my right to rant on Friday evening. And even though it was your post in BST that triggered by rant, I have nothing against you personally and I'm sorry if I sound too rude. It might be that majority of posts on BST that sells knife with "never cut anything with it" comes from flippers. Or it could be one of dozens of legitime reasons. But if you care to understand my reaction a bit — imagine yourself living on the other half of globe. You pretty much can't return a knife to seller cause tax/shipping would make you pay double price for it. Maybe that makes me a bit jealous to those of you who can order stuff from Amazon, or who could literally walk into JKI and talk to Jon about knives.


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## Bico Doce (Dec 17, 2021)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> It was a rant indeed! You can't deny my right to rant on Friday evening. And even though it was your post in BST that triggered by rant, I have nothing against you personally and I'm sorry if I sound too rude. It might be that majority of posts on BST that sells knife with "never cut anything with it" comes from flippers. Or it could be one of dozens of legitime reasons. But if you care to understand my reaction a bit — imagine yourself living on the other half of globe. You pretty much can't return a knife to seller cause tax/shipping would make you pay double price for it. Maybe that makes me a bit jealous to those of you who can order stuff from Amazon, or who could literally walk into JKI and talk to Jon about knives.


Thanks for sharing your perspective on this, definitely something I had not considered. I got you and we are good


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## Barmoley (Dec 17, 2021)

Selling unused knives happens. Sometimes you order a custom here and a custom there. They all have different lead times. Then while waiting you see something on BST, or there is a sale on a knife you've been interested in or some new model from a new maker appears or you just get bored while waiting. So you buy knives here and there and then all of a sudden the customs are ready and few at a time even though the leads were different, etc. So you receive and have to pay for a bunch of knives at a the same time. When these arrive you take a look, handle them and knowing you can't keep them all you start thinking. What should I sell... Some you pick because they don't fit as well as others, some because you know they will sell easy, some because they are more expensive and could cover more of the hole you find yourself in. Some you sell purely because you can get another one by the same maker easier. Hard to get, popular knives are easier to sell, but also harder to let go, since replacing them is challenging. Some customs take so long that by the time you get them delivered your preferences or financial citation change. Sometimes you get a knife you've been hunting for a while, look at it handle it in hand and know it is not for you. So it happens, not because someone planned for it, but just because.

Of course advanced planners like myself never ever fall into the trap and all of the scenarios above were whispered to me by the haunted dreams of the knife enthusiasts struggling with tough choices


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## Delat (Dec 17, 2021)

It’s definitely a luxury to be in a position to buy a knife just to see how it feels in hand, then turn around and sell it. But these things we’re obsessed with aren’t available in Walmart for us to stop by and check out, so I can understand it.

Back when I was doing a lot of woodworking I bought a lot of tools I never got around to using. I fell into a bit of a tool envy trap. I shipped most of it off to my brother in law a few years ago and was really shocked at how much stuff I had sitting around unopened, so I’m definitely not one to criticize; that experience has made me more cautious in my purchases though.


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## tostadas (Dec 17, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> Selling unused knives happens. Sometimes you order a custom here and a custom there. They all have different lead times. Then while waiting you see something on BST, or there is a sale on a knife you've been interested in or some new model from a new maker appears or you just get bored while waiting. So you buy knives here and there and then all of a sudden the customs are ready and few at a time even though the leads were different, etc. So you receive and have to pay for a bunch of knives at a the same time. When these arrive you take a look, handle them and knowing you can't keep them all you start thinking. What should I sell... Some you pick because they don't fit as well as others, some because you know they will sell easy, some because they are more expensive and could cover more of the hole you find yourself in. Some you sell purely because you can get another one by the same maker easier. Hard to get, popular knives are easier to sell, but also harder to let go, since replacing them is challenging. Some customs take so long that by the time you get them delivered your preferences or financial citation change. Sometimes you get a knife you've been hunting for a while, look at it handle it in hand and know it is not for you. So it happens, not because someone planned for it, but just because.
> 
> Of course advanced planners like myself never ever fall into the trap and all of the scenarios above were whispered to me by the haunted dreams of the knife enthusiasts struggling with tough choices


Go away, your logic and sound reasoning have no place on an internet forum.


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## ian (Dec 17, 2021)

Also depends on how much money you have to invest in the knife hobby. Most of the scenarios above are alien to me, since I can only really afford to buy one knife at a time. But I've definitely sold a few knives after only using them for a few days. I tell myself that I understood how they cut well enough after that, and that further testing was unnecessary, but that's probably my ego talking. Sometimes it takes a while to gel with a knife.

Most of those I sold in a panic after thinking "omg, I spent how much on that knife?"

-----

Imo, the rant was a little too targeted, though, @icanhaschzbrgr. I totally get the sentiment, but @Bico Doce wasn't doing anything wrong.

More serious question: are you affiliated with ICHC?


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## esoo (Dec 17, 2021)

I've bought knives knowing that I would sell them, as it was the only chance to try that maker out that I'd seen.

Given the time and experience in between, I'd actually like to go back and try them again.


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## ian (Dec 17, 2021)

Wish I still had all the knives I've sold. C'est la vie.


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## Bico Doce (Dec 17, 2021)

If I am being totally honest I did go overboard with buying knives, especially hard to find knives. I got sucked into the newsletter/IG drops and trying to checkout faster than a thousand other prospective buyers. There was this strange compulsion of feeling like I was missing out on something very coveted and I felt the need to compete. The crazy thing is it all happened in the span of a few months, I sold all of the knives I had acquired at a pretty slow rate over the last few years, replaced those with knives that are considered pretty respectable (this was more planned) and then I impulsively replaced those knives with ones much more expensive and harder to find (all of which are an absolute luxury to me considering I am just a hobbyist). 

Truth is, part of me wonders how in the hell do I get off of this crazy rollercoaster? Because even though knives from the top makers are not readily available, if you are persistent and cast a wide net you can always find something newer and shinier to attract your gaze. I know it's a running joke here on the forum (knife addiction) but I do think it is an issue where you can get sucked into the hunt of the next knife and lose sight of actually enjoying the knives you do have (and I am probably here at the moment)


----------



## tostadas (Dec 17, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> If I am being totally honest I did go overboard with buying knives, especially hard to find knives. I got sucked into the newsletter/IG drops and trying to checkout faster than a thousand other prospective buyers. There was this strange compulsion of feeling like I was missing out on something very coveted and I felt the need to compete. The crazy thing is it all happened in the span of a few months, I sold all of the knives I had acquired at a pretty slow rate over the last few years, replaced those with knives that are considered pretty respectable (this was more planned) and then I impulsively replaced those knives with ones much more expensive and harder to find (all of which are an absolute luxury to me considering I am just a hobbyist).
> 
> Truth is, part of me wonders how in the hell do I get off of this crazy rollercoaster? Because even though knives from the top makers are not readily available, if you are persistent and cast a wide net you can always find something newer and shinier to attract your gaze. I know it's a running joke here on the forum (knife addiction) but I do think it is an issue where you can get sucked into the hunt of the next knife and lose sight of actually enjoying the knives you do have (and I am probably here at the moment)


Totally feel you there. My actual knife drawer can only hold maybe 4 or 5 knives at any given time. So I stash any excess in another box for storage. I looked through it today and I still have at least 3 brand new knives in there that have been sitting for at least a month or 2, still waiting to be used for the first time.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 17, 2021)

I sell a pretty substantial percentage of my knives having never used them.

I dunno I just buy these knives I think Im going to use them but then when I go to make food Ive already got a knife I like on my board and I am frankly just too lazy to swap them out most of the time. Im horrible at rotating and I never think "oh I need a different knife for this", and often when I do finally use it I just remember that my favorite knives often I have pretty much completely reground at this point.

I have the same problem with guitars. I have a ton of them but my k-line is already there and in tune and I am used to it so on like, 350 days out of the year that's the guitar I pick up.

I have gotten so familiar with my Mutsumi Hinoura blade that I just rarely want to use anything else. It's hardly the best knife I own and it's a bit small, but I know exactly how it's going to act on the stones, what it's going to do on any ingredient, etc


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## tcmx3 (Dec 17, 2021)

Will add I have sold tons of knives on BST and I dont think Ive ever been low-balled. I find this at odds with a lot of folk's complaints about such behavior.

Either the knives/stones I buy dont attract that crowd or I give off some sort of vibe.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 17, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> If I am being totally honest I did go overboard with buying knives, especially hard to find knives. I got sucked into the newsletter/IG drops and trying to checkout faster than a thousand other prospective buyers. There was this strange compulsion of feeling like I was missing out on something very coveted and I felt the need to compete. The crazy thing is it all happened in the span of a few months, I sold all of the knives I had acquired at a pretty slow rate over the last few years, replaced those with knives that are considered pretty respectable (this was more planned) and then I impulsively replaced those knives with ones much more expensive and harder to find (all of which are an absolute luxury to me considering I am just a hobbyist).
> 
> Truth is, part of me wonders how in the hell do I get off of this crazy rollercoaster? Because even though knives from the top makers are not readily available, if you are persistent and cast a wide net you can always find something newer and shinier to attract your gaze. I know it's a running joke here on the forum (knife addiction) but I do think it is an issue where you can get sucked into the hunt of the next knife and lose sight of actually enjoying the knives you do have (and I am probably here at the moment)




I have two words for you...

Fontenille Pataud.


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## DitmasPork (Dec 17, 2021)

I prefer very straightforward listings—maker/knife type/specs/condition report/usage/photos/location of seller.

Don't like comments on BST, feel it should be disabled; info on original purchase price irrelevant; don't care about why seller wants to sell; good photos a major plus for me; seller ratings would be great.


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## Carl Kotte (Dec 17, 2021)

McMan said:


> Thankfully, this bump is now extinct.


No, I’m still around. Not extinct, just taxidermied.


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## Barmoley (Dec 17, 2021)

tostadas said:


> Go away, your logic and sound reasoning have no place on an internet forum.


Finally!!! Someone recognizes my greatness! Of course then @ian has to chime in and say that his experience is totally different. I wouldn't expect anything less, he is like that  


Before the pitchforks come out, I say this with utmost respect to our own math wiz.


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## ian (Dec 17, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> Finally!!! Someone recognizes my greatness! Of course then @ian has to chime in and say that his experience is totally different. I wouldn't expect anything less, he is like that
> 
> 
> Before the pitchforks come out, I say this with utmost respect to our own math wiz.


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## cantdecidewhichone (Dec 18, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> If I am being totally honest I did go overboard with buying knives, especially hard to find knives. I got sucked into the newsletter/IG drops and trying to checkout faster than a thousand other prospective buyers. There was this strange compulsion of feeling like I was missing out on something very coveted and I felt the need to compete. The crazy thing is it all happened in the span of a few months, I sold all of the knives I had acquired at a pretty slow rate over the last few years, replaced those with knives that are considered pretty respectable (this was more planned) and then I impulsively replaced those knives with ones much more expensive and harder to find (all of which are an absolute luxury to me considering I am just a hobbyist).
> 
> Truth is, part of me wonders how in the hell do I get off of this crazy rollercoaster? Because even though knives from the top makers are not readily available, if you are persistent and cast a wide net you can always find something newer and shinier to attract your gaze. I know it's a running joke here on the forum (knife addiction) but I do think it is an issue where you can get sucked into the hunt of the next knife and lose sight of actually enjoying the knives you do have (and I am probably here at the moment)



If somebody finds the answer to this, I'd like to know as well


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> If I am being totally honest I did go overboard with buying knives, especially hard to find knives. I got sucked into the newsletter/IG drops and trying to checkout faster than a thousand other prospective buyers. There was this strange compulsion of feeling like I was missing out on something very coveted and I felt the need to compete. The crazy thing is it all happened in the span of a few months, I sold all of the knives I had acquired at a pretty slow rate over the last few years, replaced those with knives that are considered pretty respectable (this was more planned) and then I impulsively replaced those knives with ones much more expensive and harder to find (all of which are an absolute luxury to me considering I am just a hobbyist).
> 
> Truth is, part of me wonders how in the hell do I get off of this crazy rollercoaster? Because even though knives from the top makers are not readily available, if you are persistent and cast a wide net you can always find something newer and shinier to attract your gaze. I know it's a running joke here on the forum (knife addiction) but I do think it is an issue where you can get sucked into the hunt of the next knife and lose sight of actually enjoying the knives you do have (and I am probably here at the moment)


 
You can’t get off of this ‘rollercoaster’ ride—short of an intervention from others to cut you off from funds; cutting up your credit cards; stashing away your existing knives and forcing you to use more common tools like Shun, Wustof, Mac, and Victorinox.

You’re a ‘collector,’ much like the majority of members here—acquiring knives beyond kitchen requirements. Face it, own it, be proud—enjoy the ride. It’s in your DNA—you’re hardwired to collect. Connoisseurship is a good thing.


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## Corradobrit1 (Dec 18, 2021)

You'll only find positive reinforcement here. Its the law


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> You'll only find positive reinforcement here. Its the law



In the 9 years I've been on KKF—never read interactions between members where one says. "...hey, think you definitely have enough knives, you should stop buying, save your money; ...spend it on something lovely for the wife; ...invest it in stocks."


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

It's a sickness. Enjoy it.
No idea why I have 5 oyster knives???!!! Think it's 'cause they're called 'knives.'


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## Barmoley (Dec 18, 2021)

cantdecidewhichone said:


> If somebody finds the answer to this, I'd like to know as well


Most people slow down sooner or later. Of course once new steels or makers become available all bets are off, but once you sort of know what you like you slow down. It has to get ridiculous though, like realizing you have knives you haven’t used because you don’t cook enough to get to them. Years back I had so many folders it was obvious I went overboard, so I sold most had just a few for years and then got bored so bought some more. Now, I have way more than I need, but not as many as in the past and they are better knives. Still need to sell some, but at least I am more selective. Hype doesn’t help either, but you can’t get away from it, most get caught up in it.


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## brimmergj (Dec 18, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> invest it in stocks


Haha. That's what I did. Bought some AMC at dirt cheap and sold right at the peak, before the drop. I figured if it did well then I'd pick up a knife. If it didn't, then it wasn't meant to be. Took that and bought my first 240, a B1 Kisuke. Worked out pretty well for me so far


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## cantdecidewhichone (Dec 18, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> You can’t get off of this ‘rollercoaster’ ride—short of an intervention from others to cut you off from funds; cutting up your credit cards; stashing away your existing knives and forcing you to use more common tools like Shun, Wustof, Mac, and Victorinox.
> 
> You’re a ‘collector,’ much like the majority of members here—acquiring knives beyond kitchen requirements. Face it, own it, be proud—enjoy the ride. It’s in your DNA—you’re hardwired to collect. Connoisseurship is a good thing.



I'm going to frame this quote on my wall


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

Everyone has their entry point; trigger; objective for collecting. Mine was illness—someone close to me had cancer (that person survived, is fine now), I desperately needed a distraction, so buying kitchen knives served the purpose of bringing my joy in a dark time. I've continued buying knives since then, circa 2010. I used to have a more scattershot methodology of buying—but now have more clearly defined tastes.


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## cantdecidewhichone (Dec 18, 2021)

brimmergj said:


> Haha. That's what I did. Bought some AMC at dirt cheap and sold right at the peak, before the drop. I figured if it did well then I'd pick up a knife. If it didn't, then it wasn't meant to be. Took that and bought my first 240, a B1 Kisuke. Worked out pretty well for me so far


Yep this is how I'm finding my knives. Gains from my stocks, but I don't sell when NY portfolio tanks


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

brimmergj said:


> Haha. That's what I did. Bought some AMC at dirt cheap and sold right at the peak, before the drop. I figured if it did well then I'd pick up a knife. If it didn't, then it wasn't meant to be. Took that and bought my first 240, a B1 Kisuke. Worked out pretty well for me so far



I thought I quit buying knives—bought Rivian and AMRS (synth cannibis) stock, lost money on both; now craving another knife.


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## brimmergj (Dec 18, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> money on both; now craving another knife


The easiest way to get over defeat is a new knife.

I started getting in to the market and knives a little more than a year ago. Throw my mtb addiction into the mix and I'm thoroughly screwed.


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## Bico Doce (Dec 18, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Everyone has their entry point; trigger; objective for collecting.


I feel like the pandemic has been it for me. Not that I don’t love my family dearly but I went from spending most of my day out of the house to never leaving the home and having my 2 young children around me 24/7 for the last ~2 years. It’s been an adjustment to say the least (I know I don’t have it bad compared to others right now)


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

brimmergj said:


> The easiest way to get over defeat is a new knife.
> 
> I started getting in to the market and knives a little more than a year ago. Throw my mtb addiction into the mix and I'm thoroughly screwed.


What's 'mtb'?


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## Bico Doce (Dec 18, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> What's 'mtb'?


Mountain bike


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> I feel like the pandemic has been it for me. Not that I don’t love my family dearly but I went from spending most of my day out of the house to never leaving the home and having my 2 young children around me 24/7 for the last ~2 years. It’s been an adjustment to say the least (I know I don’t have it bad compared to others right now)



I agree. For me, the pandemic caused a sharp spike in my knife buying. Saved a lot of money from not going out to restaurants/bars because of lockdown; indoor closures and restrictions—dealt with boredom cruising knife vendor websites and BST. Cooking at home gave more reason to purchase additional knives with funds saved.


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> Mountain bike


Ahhh, cheers. Had to look it up, was sure it wasn't 'Missile Torpedo Boat.'


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## Bodine (Dec 18, 2021)

I'm not a collector, just searching for my perfect knife.

Ditmas, check out TCNNF, good buy right now, largest cannabis company in the states, headquartered right here in Tallahassee. When the feds finally get on board and it goes to the NYSE it should go through the roof. (My speculation proceed with caution).


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## spaceconvoy (Dec 18, 2021)

Bodine said:


> I'm not a collector, just searching for my perfect knife.


+1 same here, just like with headphones and guitars. I buy a lot of different things initially to try out because I'm not sure what I like yet. Then I start to understand and become laser focused on a few holy grails. I end up keeping a handful and sell the rest. Currently at:

3 headphones
- open
- closed
- portable
4 guitars
- classical
- dreadnought
- travel acoustic
- electric
4 knives
- slicing cleaver
- long wa gyuto
- short yo gyuto
- yo petty

I guess I'm still here because I'm not quite satisfied with my stone collection and I'm waiting for the perfect natural finisher to appear on BST. Then maybe back to guitars to futz around with amps and pedals, which might open a can of worms with searching for a better electric... starting to feel an itch in that direction.

I just don't understand people who have a bunch of very slightly different 240 gyutos or whatever, but to each their own. I consider myself a curator rather than a collector.


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## tostadas (Dec 18, 2021)

So what I'm hearing is basically, 
If you make a chunk of cash, reward yourself w a new knife. 
If you get unlucky and lost money, you can make yourself feel better w a new knife.


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## Duukt (Dec 18, 2021)

tostadas said:


> So what I'm hearing is basically,
> If you make a chunk of cash, reward yourself w a new knife.
> If you get unlucky and lost money, you can make yourself feel better w a new knife.


That's what I heard too!


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

Bodine said:


> I'm not a collector, just searching for my perfect knife.
> 
> Ditmas, check out TCNNF, good buy right now, largest cannabis company in the states, headquartered right here in Tallahassee. When the feds finally get on board and it goes to the NYSE it should go through the roof. (My speculation proceed with caution).



'What/Who is a collector' is definitely a lively topic for a future KKF thread. The term 'collector' is pretty broad IMO and covers lots of types of knives collectors—from the cook that has 20 Globals to the cook that has stopped after buying 4 knives (Kato/Shig). I didn't start out with the intention of being a collector, but have become one simple from buying more than I need and continually chasing knives. 

I'll look into TCNNF, TBH I'm quite new to the stock game and taking it slow. TCNNF appears to be listed as a 'buy' in several articles I've just researched.


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## brimmergj (Dec 18, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Ahhh, cheers. Had to look it up, was sure it wasn't 'Missile Torpedo Boat.'


Might be a bit outside of my price range, but a boat with missiles and torpedoes sounds pretty cool


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## tomsch (Dec 18, 2021)

Love this thread but it also reminds me that my NY (new years..... not New York) resolution is to sell some watches and knives. I'm starting with a Tudor Black Bay followed by a Tsourkan WH that I bought here on BST but only used twice. It was the fever of seeing an amazing knife only to realize that I have more than I'm using already


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## daveb (Dec 18, 2021)

Note to Mr. Ditmas - No Toadfish Oyster Knives seen among your collection. Waiting for Santa???


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

brimmergj said:


> Might be a bit outside of my price range, but a boat with missiles and torpedoes sounds pretty cool



Get one of these, and you'll put every kitchen knife collection here to shame!


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## cantdecidewhichone (Dec 18, 2021)

tomsch said:


> Love this thread but it also reminds me that my NY (new years..... not New York) resolution is to sell some watches and knives. I'm starting with a Tudor Black Bay followed by a Tsourkan WH that I bought here on BST but only used twice. It was the fever of seeing an amazing knife only to realize that I have more than I'm using already


You should sell the watches so you can buy more knives.


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

daveb said:


> Note to Mr. Ditmas - No Toadfish Oyster Knives seen among your collection. Waiting for Santa???



Was tempted to grab on from BST, saw them in person at JB Prince, very solid knife. However, I buy and shuck oysters maybe only twice a year—buying maybe a dozen each time.


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## brimmergj (Dec 18, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Get one of these, and you'll put every kitchen knife collection here to shame!
> View attachment 156705


Only if it has a nice cutting board inside


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## DitmasPork (Dec 18, 2021)

brimmergj said:


> Only if it has a nice cutting board inside



I'm sure you can install a big Hasegawa. BTW, I know this is waaay off topic (sorry mods), but found some pics of a kitchen and eating area on a nuclear submarine—kitchen looks great! Like to see the cook's knife roll.


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## ian (Dec 18, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Like to see the cook's knife roll.



Victorinox, Victorinox, Dexter.


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## stringer (Dec 18, 2021)

Reminds me of my Boston galley kitchen


ian said:


> Victorinox, Victorinox, Dexter.



Don't forget Mercer.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 18, 2021)

ian said:


> Victorinox, Victorinox, Dexter.



wouldnt surprise me if there were a nice upcharge on them for having an NSN.

fwiw I saw a video today of Dominique Ansel in his workshop using a Dexter and that guy can DEFINITELY afford better knives so he either doesnt know, doesnt care, or just uses whatever at work.


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## WildBoar (Dec 18, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> I'm sure you can install a big Hasegawa. BTW, I know this is waaay off topic (sorry mods), but found some pics of a kitchen and eating area on a nuclear submarine—kitchen looks great! Like to see the cook's knife roll.


We had a KKF member close to 10 years ago who was a chef on a nuke sub. He was stationed at the Pentagon briefly, cooking for one of the officers' dining rooms.


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## xxxclx (Dec 19, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> I'm sure you can install a big Hasegawa. BTW, I know this is waaay off topic (sorry mods), but found some pics of a kitchen and eating area on a nuclear submarine—kitchen looks great! Like to see the cook's knife roll.
> View attachment 156709
> 
> View attachment 156710





Check out this video on the food supply situation on a nuclear sub. It's fascinating how the manage to cram so much food to feed the crew onto a submarine


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## RockyBasel (Dec 19, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> 'What/Who is a collector' is definitely a lively topic for a future KKF thread. The term 'collector' is pretty broad IMO and covers lots of types of knives collectors—from the cook that has 20 Globals to the cook that has stopped after buying 4 knives (Kato/Shig). I didn't start out with the intention of being a collector, but have become one simple from buying more than I need and continually chasing knives.
> 
> I'll look into TCNNF, TBH I'm quite new to the stock game and taking it slow. TCNNF appears to be listed as a 'buy' in several articles I've just researched.



For me, it was the pandemic, stuck at home, more income as we were not going out, had to cook, as restaurants closed. So started with knives about 2 years ago, at start of pandemic

Now, I want to start a new thread - how do I go about down-sizing my collection” what factors do I consider before I start to sell, and which knives must I keep.

Am at that stage, will turn to KKF to help me down-size wisely, much as it did to help me acquire some amazing knives


----------



## EM-L (Dec 19, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> I just don't understand people who have a bunch of very slightly different 240 gyutos or whatever, but to each their own. I consider myself a curator rather than a collector.


Neither do I!
I have 210s.


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## DitmasPork (Dec 19, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> I just don't understand people who have a bunch of very slightly different 240 gyutos or whatever, but to each their own. I consider myself a curator rather than a collector.


I have about 6–8 225s, mostly by different makers, all have very different characteristics, all good knives to me—like the luxury of being able to rotate knives in my wheelhouse. Two knives I have, a 225 and 230 by the same maker, same profile, same steel/finish, same handle type are very different in weight, performance, feel.

Why ‘curator’ over ‘collector’ as a term, just curious. I curate for a living, have been doing it professionally for the last 15 years or so—it is a very specific term IMHO. A person can be a ‘kitchen knife curator’ without ever having owned or used a kitchen knife.


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## Dhoff (Dec 19, 2021)

BillHanna said:


> View attachment 156302



you could at least have found some guys that can hit the target


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## DitmasPork (Dec 19, 2021)

xxxclx said:


> Check out this video on the food supply situation on a nuclear sub. It's fascinating how the manage to cram so much food to feed the crew onto a submarine



Cheers. Will definitely watch it today. Might get useful ideas for my tiny kitchen.


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## captaincaed (Dec 19, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> Now, I want to start a new thread - how do I go about down-sizing my collection” what factors do I consider before I start to sell, and which knives must I keep.



I used the Marie Kondo philosophy and it's worked pretty well so far. There are a couple I regret getting rid of, where I had a logical reason to pass something along that I actually had a connection with. Then there are others I hardly remember letting go of, that I did for the right reasons.

I guess my moral was to not be too hasty. Some make great gifts over time as well. That's a great way to feel good about letting something go where you're on the fence. Spread the gospel a bit, you know?


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 19, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> For me, it was the pandemic, stuck at home, more income as we were not going out, had to cook, as restaurants closed. So started with knives about 2 years ago, at start of pandemic
> 
> Now, I want to start a new thread - how do I go about down-sizing my collection” what factors do I consider before I start to sell, and which knives must I keep.
> 
> Am at that stage, will turn to KKF to help me down-size wisely, much as it did to help me acquire some amazing knives


When you say "down-size wisely" — what purpose are you pursuing? Do you want to keep the most valuable pieces? Get maximum profits from sales? Free space for new knives? Try maximum number of different makers? Just enjoy the process of reading reviews and online shopping?

I think it is the process, not the end result that's most of us enjoy. No matter what knives are in


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## DitmasPork (Dec 19, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> I used the Marie Kondo philosophy and it's worked pretty well so far. There are a couple I regret getting rid of, where I had a logical reason to pass something along that I actually had a connection with. Then there are others I hardly remember letting go of, that I did for the right reasons.
> 
> I guess my moral was to not be too hasty. Some make great gifts over time as well. That's a great way to feel good about letting something go where you're on the fence. Spread the gospel a bit, you know?


Sound advice. Good being sure before selling, I’ve never understood the ‘catch and release mentality’—for me it sometimes takes time to bond with a knife, took me years to give my Watanabe a fair run in the kitchen. I’ve given away or padded trades many more knives than I’ve sold—lower priced ($150–$350), common knives (Mazaki, Wakui, Wustof, etc.) that I’m too lazy to photograph, record specs, post, ship. Would rather pass them on.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 19, 2021)

I wish everyone on this forum could call Wakui a common knife. To me they are some kind of reference line — best bang for the bucks


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## DitmasPork (Dec 19, 2021)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> I wish everyone on this forum could call Wakui a common knife. To me they are some kind of reference line — best bang for the bucks



Wakui I mentioned was a 135mm petty in W2, good little knife, great bang-for-buck, but felt too small for my liking. It was in perfect shape, but I could prob only sell it for $125, minus $15 shipping; plus searching around for packing materials; standing in line for a 1/2 hour at my local post office which is always crowded; etc. Wouldn't be worth my time TBH. Knives I've given away are good, reliable knives—just haven't been using them, can't see using them, and rather have them in another's hands. Thinking of doing a BST post for free knives—for pick up only, in NYC.


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## tchan001 (Dec 19, 2021)

This is greed. Asking for the price of a premium Kramer for a knife with an Apexultra core. The steel looks interesting but the price seems budgeted for US military expenditure. Way beyond my expectations and too rich for me. I'd like to see how much it needs to drop and bump on BST if someone tries to sell it later on.

Congrats to Kamon for helping them produce such an excellent knife. Much thanks to our masskuteers for organizing the much much more affordable massdrop Kamon and of course to Kamon for granting us this opportunity.


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## Delat (Dec 19, 2021)

The goldvein guys have been very vague about what they’re making. I haven’t seen anything describing the knives or explaining why they’re worth 45k.

According to Kamon there’s a decent amount of gold in the blade, but I don’t see how it could be 45k worth of gold.


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## Bico Doce (Dec 19, 2021)

I hope a big chunk of that went to Ben


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## DitmasPork (Dec 19, 2021)

Bico Doce said:


> I hope a big chunk of that went to Ben



Always wondered what's a typical cut for vendor? In my biz the standard split is 50/50 between maker and seller.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 19, 2021)

Delat said:


> According to Kamon there’s a decent amount of gold in the blade, but I don’t see how it could be 45k worth of gold.


Even if it were made entirely of gold, the price of gold would be half of their asking price.


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## Barmoley (Dec 20, 2021)

This is like valuing a piece of art though. I don't know what it should cost, but it is not just the price of materials it never is with paintings or jewelry or anything else. Same for Kramer knives, you don't pay for performance or materials you pay for a Kramer. To me this price is absolutely ridiculous but so are prices of other art. I don't know how these guys decided on this price, if it sells though then they were right.


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## Greasylake (Dec 20, 2021)

I'm sure whoever purchases that will just be diversifying an investment portfolio...


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## tchan001 (Dec 20, 2021)

It's description is so vague that you don't even get to know the dimensions of the blade, not even how long it is. Just "confirm your desire to purchase... at the aforementioned price" and trust us that this is THE ONE for you.


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## RockyBasel (Dec 20, 2021)

At least Kramer has some neighbors in that price range


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 20, 2021)

tchan001 said:


> It's description is so vague that you don't even get to know the dimensions of the blade, not even how long it is. Just "confirm your desire to purchase... at the aforementioned price" and trust us that this is THE ONE for you.


I can confirm my desire to purchase. That doesn't mean that I'll purchase. That just confirms my desire. 
…although I'm not sure I should talk to this concierge myself. Probably should redirect to one of my secretaries.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 20, 2021)

The people who buy a knife like that, don't care about the price other than "it is expensive so therefore it is exclusive." They don't care about specs or steel or heat treat or any of that. They have plenty of money and are hunting exclusivity, and, as mentioned, artistic flair. There's likely a very high chance that the people buying that don't even cook their own meals.


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## Midsummer (Dec 20, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> There's likely a very high chance that the people buying that don't even cook their own meals.



Yea, but everyone has to cut an apple or a piece of cheese on occasion.


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## timebard (Dec 20, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> At least Kramer has some neighbors in that price range



I mean, whatever you think of Kramer's knives and price point, you can at least point to a large body of innovative work and craftsmanship. He may have been both smart and lucky in his marketing moves but he did build up to his price point over decades of work. These folks appear to think you can skip straight to an absurd price without any of those annoying middle steps by pretending to be exclusive on insta. Maybe there are enough suckers out there for them to keep it going but I doubt it...


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 20, 2021)

timebard said:


> I mean, whatever you think of Kramer's knives and price point, you can at least point to a large body of innovative work and craftsmanship. He may have been both smart and lucky in his marketing moves but he did build up to his price point over decades of work. These folks appear to think you can skip straight to an absurd price without any of those annoying middle steps by pretending to be exclusive on insta. Maybe there are enough suckers out there for them to keep it going but I doubt it...



Why would the buyer of that knife be a sucker? It clearly has excellent craftsmanship and isn't some scam junk. The price is relative.


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## tchan001 (Dec 20, 2021)

Maybe 007 will buy it and re-market it with better effort. LOL


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## timebard (Dec 20, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Why would the buyer of that knife be a sucker? It clearly has excellent craftsmanship and isn't some scam junk. The price is relative.



Not dissing Kamon or whoever crafted the other knife they advertised. I expect the craftsmanship is excellent... but so are a huge pile of knives you can get for 2-5% of their price. Other than "hey guys there's gold in it, rich people love that ****" there's no reputation to justify the extra zero on the price tag.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 20, 2021)

timebard said:


> Not dissing Kamon or whoever crafted the other knife they advertised. I expect the craftsmanship is excellent... but so are a huge pile of knives you can get for 2-5% of their price. Other than "hey guys there's gold in it, rich people love that ****" there's no reputation to justify the extra zero on the price tag.



Oh I agree 100%. I guess I'm just saying that if a person can afford to drop $50k on a kitchen knife, they probably know it isn't truly worth that before buying it. Again, meaning, they know they are buying exclusivity more than anything else. Now, if they don't realize that, or think it is some sort of investment, well yeah, then they'd be a sucker.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 20, 2021)

tchan001 said:


> Maybe 007 will buy it and re-market it with better effort. LOL



Buy now or next week I'll raise the price by five thousand!


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## Delat (Dec 20, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Why would the buyer of that knife be a sucker? It clearly has excellent craftsmanship and isn't some scam junk. The price is relative.



It’s certainly not scam junk and I don’t think the buyers are suckers, but when Kamon’s work is available for 1k and this is 45k then it does call into question the value.

I suspect you could throw 10k at Kamon and ask for a blacked-out knife with a gold streak and he’d make it…. so is this truly a one-off and will it hold its value?

To me it’s like buying a Nieman Marcus edition of a BMW 340i for 2M when they normally sell for 60k. I suppose people would buy them but many more would wonder why. Kramers for 40-100k or more are a totally different story - those prices and rarity are well-established by the market. They’re basically the 1M Bugatti, not a crazy overpriced BMW (note that I’m not comparing actual relative performance between a Kramer and Kamon at all, just using a bad car example).

Having said all that, if I had Bezos money I’d buy it and display it next to my Kramers 

edit: Ok I take back that part about Kamon making a gold vein on his own. The man himself says it’s extremely rare and difficult and requires special equipment that he wouldn’t tackle himself. Maybe the darn thing is worth 45k after all.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 20, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Oh I agree 100%. I guess I'm just saying that if a person can afford to drop $50k on a kitchen knife, they probably know it isn't truly worth that before buying it. Again, meaning, they know they are buying exclusivity more than anything else. Now, if they don't realize that, or think it is some sort of investment, well yeah, then they'd be a sucker.


What's so exclusive about it? Majority of knives on this forum are hand made. You can get a handmade shige, add a kilogram of gold and still save half the asking price.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 20, 2021)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> What's so exclusive about it? Majority of knives on this forum are hand made. You can get a handmade shige, add a kilogram of gold and still save half the asking price.



What's so exclusive about diamonds?

I'm not defending the price.


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## tcmx3 (Dec 20, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> What's so exclusive about diamonds?
> 
> I'm not defending the price.



diamonds? artificial scarcity.

the number of diamonds in existence is much higher than the number of diamonds available for purchase.

the diamond market is a case of information asymmetry (ie the mining companies do not release information about how many diamonds there really are or that they even have on hand) as well as protected status (i.e. the technically superior artificial ones have to be marked to keep naturally produced diamonds competitive), oh and also let's not forget collusion, corruption, war, etc.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 20, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> What's so exclusive about diamonds?
> 
> I'm not defending the price.


Pretty much nothing. Well except for really large ones. Artificial diamonds are pretty common. Though technology doesn't allows us to grow them as big as we want. Yet. 

I just googled the largest lab grown diamond. But I can't force myself google those greedy bastards and learn what's so special about that knife.


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## Nagakin (Dec 20, 2021)

Did greed kill the vintage market or are they really just that scarce now? 10” Chef’s were fun to refurb and gift, but it’s become as affordable as giving away a Wakui or Kaeru.


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## stringer (Dec 20, 2021)

Nagakin said:


> Did greed kill the vintage market or are they really just that scarce now? 10” Chef’s were fun to refurb and gift, but it’s become as affordable as giving away a Wakui or Kaeru.



I still have good luck at flea markets but eBay has been rough for awhile for 10"+ of pretty much any flavor. I don't think it's greed. Just they are very desirable and not that many around. Your 10" French, German, and American carbon steel peaked in production decades ago and has never been the same since. Plus they were mainly restaurant/institutional/military grade. So they got used abused and discarded. Now they're are tons of people making knives, rehabbing knives, etc. Good for the hobby long term. Not good for prices. But not greed I don't think.


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## Jville (Dec 20, 2021)

tchan001 said:


> Maybe 007 will buy it and re-market it with better effort. LOL


If he gets his hands on it, it will resell for $99,999.


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## cooktocut (Dec 20, 2021)

I don't know about you guys, but that 45k pill seems much easier to swallow when I have a "concierge" to guide me through the process. Wonder if I could request white glove delivery...


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## Barmoley (Dec 20, 2021)

I guess I don't understand the whole greed concept in the context of luxury items which all the knives we discuss are. We call a person greedy if they sell the knife for more than what they paid, but isn't the buyer as greedy for wanting to own that knife and is the buyer now greedy if they don't sell the knife for less?


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## tcmx3 (Dec 20, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> I guess I don't understand the whole greed concept in the context of luxury items which all the knives we discuss are. We call a person greedy if they sell the knife for more than what they paid, but isn't the buyer as greedy for wanting to own that knife and is the buyer now greedy if they don't sell the knife for less?



I dont think there's much greed in the knife market relative to other places. There is some sure but I feel like if you wanted to exploit you have better options.

Look at Uber, a literal ponzi scheme so unprofitable no amount of creative accounting can hide it. Even after paying their drivers under minimum wage and doing their best to destroy the food service industry they lost so much money they had to spin off Uber Eats. _correction: they lost a huge amount of money. they did not spin off eats but instead a robotics subgroup. they still ended hard red on the balance sheet._ And yet it keeps getting more and more cash.

A 45,000USD knife is absolutely nothing compared to that.


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## superworrier (Dec 20, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> I dont think there's much greed in the knife market relative to other places. There is some sure but I feel like if you wanted to exploit you have better options.
> 
> Look at Uber, a literal ponzi scheme so unprofitable no amount of creative accounting can hide it. Even after paying their drivers under minimum wage and doing their best to destroy the food service industry they lost so much money they had to spin off Uber Eats. And yet it keeps getting more and more cash.
> 
> A 45,000USD knife is absolutely nothing compared to that.


I can't say for sure whether Uber will ever be profitable, but people said the same about Amazon re: burning money. Also they never spun off UberEats.


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## spaceconvoy (Dec 20, 2021)

Luxury isn't about quality, it's about S C A R C I T Y and pretentiously stylized language


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## Nagakin (Dec 20, 2021)

stringer said:


> I still have good luck at flea markets but eBay has been rough for awhile for 10"+ of pretty much any flavor. I don't think it's greed. Just they are very desirable and not that many around. Your 10" French, German, and American carbon steel peaked in production decades ago and has never been the same since. Plus they were mainly restaurant/institutional/military grade. So they got used abused and discarded. Now they're are tons of people making knives, rehabbing knives, etc. Good for the hobby long term. Not good for prices. But not greed I don't think.


That makes sense and gives a little incentive to grab what I can find. Buying bans only counts for *new* knives right…?

I swore off flea markets though since my mom made me work them as a young immigrant. Have you had luck with estate sales?


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## captaincaed (Dec 20, 2021)

Nagakin said:


> That makes sense and gives a little incentive to grab what I can find. Buying bans only counts for *new* knives right…?


Excellent philosophy. Sounds familiar...


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## tcmx3 (Dec 20, 2021)

superworrier said:


> I can't say for sure whether Uber will ever be profitable, but people said the same about Amazon re: burning money. *Also they never spun off UberEats*.



oh you're right they've just had to dump the robotics unit in eats but Ill hold that. I was wrong.

still Im not sure they are comparable wrt their path to profitability. Uber hasn't gone into the black even with prop 22. if they can literally rewrite labor laws and still can't make it into the black I'm not sure there is much hope for them. and unlike Amazon, it's not exactly like there is a huge competitor they are just waiting to undercut enough to start making bank the way Amazon had with WalMart. who is the biggest player in Uber's space? the NYC medallions? the MTA/MBTA/etc?  

if there is some actual path to profitability for Uber, I'd like to hear about it.


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## Corradobrit1 (Dec 20, 2021)

tchan001 said:


> View attachment 156850
> 
> This is greed. Asking for the price of a premium Kramer for a knife with an Apexultra core. The steel looks interesting but the price seems budgeted for US military expenditure. Way beyond my expectations and too rich for me. I'd like to see how much it needs to drop and bump on BST if someone tries to sell it later on.
> 
> Congrats to Kamon for helping them produce such an excellent knife. Much thanks to our masskuteers for organizing the much much more affordable massdrop Kamon and of course to Kamon for granting us this opportunity.



I will buy this


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## xxxclx (Dec 20, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> I will buy this



Great! Our C O N C I E R G E at G O L D V E I N will reach out to you with regards to your binding commitment to purchase this E X C L U S I V E knife.


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## Hockey3081 (Dec 21, 2021)

Delat said:


> The goldvein guys have been very vague about what they’re making. I haven’t seen anything describing the knives or explaining why they’re worth 45k.
> 
> According to Kamon there’s a decent amount of gold in the blade, but I don’t see how it could be 45k worth of gold.




I don’t know if this is greed per se, nor do I want to insult the core involved in all aspects of the GV venture by saying they’re crazy. I respect anyone with the cojones to bring something to market. Individually they’re all respectable fellows, and I knew when Abe was attached to it, there would be a premium. I was just off by ~$43k+. I don’t even equate Ben into this equation as he was given their steel and did his magic and hopefully paid well with the absurd price they’re charging. 

Between the random posts with with few words that were was insinuating some revolutionary product shrouded in secrecy and ignoring DT’s [repeated] questions about the steel, I got the feeling this was heavy on the marketing and light on transparency. Value is often perceived, but it seems like they’re going after the Kramer audience (although the $650 post comma is really odd but I think it’s part of the weird gimmick…and at least you know for sure they didn’t accidentally add a 0 at the end) who just want an expensive display piece because they’ve run out of plebeian sh!t to buy. Similar price range, using gold as the epitome of luxury and even the “concierge” email address (which simultaneously made me chuckle and roll my eyes) are put out there for a very specific buyer. That buyer probably isn’t here since even the wealthiest member here who knows about knives likely wouldn’t pay for that. (And because Sparten is gone but I’m sure his production knife and this knife are nearly identical because of the heat treat.) To Bob’s credit, he had at least built up a reputation as a craftsman and his ability to put knives in people’s hands by the time his name really took off. This is proof of concept at best. 

For now, if these guys sell 1-2 knives a year, I can’t see how that’s not a win netting whatever their split is. 

Anyway, here’s to the 2022 TFTFTF Goldvein Denka.


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## Corradobrit1 (Dec 21, 2021)

xxxclx said:


> Great! Our C O N C I E R G E at G O L D V E I N will reach out to you with regards to your binding commitment to purchase this E X C L U S I V E knife.


Do you offer layaway?


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## Corradobrit1 (Dec 21, 2021)

Hockey3081 said:


> Anyway, here’s to the 2022 TFTFTF Goldvein Denka.
> View attachment 157008


Here are your Goldvein Denka's courtesy of @Markcg


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## Corradobrit1 (Dec 21, 2021)

Hockey3081 said:


> Between the random posts with with few words that were was insinuating some revolutionary product shrouded in secrecy and ignoring DT’s [repeated] questions about the steel, I got the feeling this was heavy on the marketing and light on transparency. Value is often perceived, but it seems like they’re going after the Kramer audience (although the $650 post comma is really odd but I think it’s part of the weird gimmick…and at least you know for sure they didn’t accidentally add a 0 at the end) who just want an expensive display piece because they’ve run out of plebeian sh!t to buy. Similar price range, using gold as the epitome of luxury and even the “concierge” email address (which simultaneously made me chuckle and roll my eyes) are put out there for a very specific buyer. That buyer probably isn’t here since even the wealthiest member here who knows about knives likely wouldn’t pay for that. (And because Sparten is gone but I’m sure his production knife and this knife are nearly identical because of the heat treat.) To Bob’s credit, he had at least built up a reputation as a craftsman and his ability to put knives in people’s hands by the time his name really took off. This is proof of concept at best.


Sorta reminds me of the all-conquering, mystery Nubatama Black Steel project from a few years ago. Gob loads of hype and marketing went into that failed venture.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 21, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Here are your Goldvein Denka's courtesy of @Markcg
> 
> View attachment 157050
> View attachment 157051


Not sure what am I seeing here. Drunken monkey with a Dremel made a groove then filled it with mustard?


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## Corradobrit1 (Dec 21, 2021)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Not sure what am I seeing here. Drunken monkey with a Dremel made a groove then filled it with mustard?


Call it an artistic flourish


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## btbyrd (Dec 21, 2021)

Ah so. The rare gilded tiramisu.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 21, 2021)

_"Don't come up 'till you're numb." Frank Costello_

Greed? Gluttony? I reckon he had all boxes checked.


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## DitmasPork (Dec 21, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Here are your Goldvein Denka's courtesy of @Markcg
> 
> View attachment 157050
> View attachment 157051


Definitely, obviously, over-the-top bling, but nothing inherently wrong with transforming a common knife into something extraordinary. Not within my income bracket.


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## Hockey3081 (Dec 21, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> Ah so. The rare gilded tiramisu.
> 
> View attachment 157070



I was thinking the steely, less douchey version of this…









Corradobrit1 said:


> Sorta reminds me of the all-conquering, mystery Nubatama Black Steel project from a few years ago. Gob loads of hype and marketing went into that failed venture. View attachment 157052



Please tell me more.


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## ian (Dec 21, 2021)

Even Mr. Salt Bae doesn't look impressed.


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## Hockey3081 (Dec 21, 2021)

ian said:


> Even Mr. Salt Bae doesn't look impressed.



Do you think he’d look more impressed if he was holding that steak up with the Goldvein 4.0, Dexter Russel edition?


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## Corradobrit1 (Dec 21, 2021)

Hockey3081 said:


> I was thinking the steely, less douchey version of this…
> 
> View attachment 157089
> 
> ...


The douche baggery is strong with this one.


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