# Cretan stone



## Thpp9 (Mar 9, 2022)

Hello,

I've seen a thread about a Cretan oilstone on BST and it piqued my interest. I am from Greece so I can get my hands on a Cretan stone pretty easily and for a really good price.

Here is a link to the stone I am talking about:






Cretan Knives Skalidakis Natural Sharpening Stone of Crete Ladakono 6000/8000 Grit | Cretan knives


Manufacturer: Cretan Knives Skalidakis Code: ladakona Color: Grey Granulometry: 6000/8000




www.cretanknives.gr





What's your experience with the stone? Will it be any good for kitchen knives? I've heard it's pretty hard so kasumi finish might be a stretch, but I would like to hear your thoughts if you have actually tried pulling it off.

Thanks in advance,
Thodoris


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## KingShapton (Mar 9, 2022)

Search function is your friend, you will find a lot of Infos here. Search also for "Turkish Oilstone" and take a look at @cotedupy 's threads...

But I can already tell you one thing... these stones are good!


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## pgugger (Mar 9, 2022)

Here’s a good review: Cretan White and Cretan Gray Sessions - New Stones Pt. 2 (text and pic heavy)


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## cotedupy (Mar 9, 2022)

Definitely get one! Get more than one. Get ten. They are amazing.

The Cretan stone was known for a long time as the famous Turkish Oilstone / Turkey Stone, and was regarded for most of the last 2000 years as the very best sharpening stone in the world. It still has a pretty strong claim to that IMO.

They are hard, but are more friable than other novaculites, so uniquely among them they _can _actually bevel polish. Particularly good for erasing jigane scratches and putting a nice haze on, though you won't get a super bright core. Still it's pretty nice: The Washita Thread

I prefer them with oil, though tbh I've only tried very briefly with water. I'd be interested to know whether you can also get a nice bevel finish with water @KingShapton ...?

Here's some history: The Turkish Oilstone Matter

(Since writing those initial posts I've found a few more old Turkish stones, as well as some more historical evidence, including something from 1902 that explicitly states Crete as a source for Turkey Stones. I'd be 110% that the Cretan stone is the Turkish Oilstone).


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## spaceconvoy (Mar 9, 2022)

Wish I could order by size instead of weight... any ideas what weight would correspond to a typical 21x7cm water stone?

edit: I sent them an email and will report back if I get a response


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## cotedupy (Mar 9, 2022)

spaceconvoy said:


> Wish I could order by size instead of weight... any ideas what weight would correspond to a typical 21x7cm water stone?
> 
> edit: I sent them an email and will report back if I get a response



If it helps - the average SG of Turkish and Cretan stones seems to be about 2.62 - 2.63

My Cretan is: 172 x 70 x 26 and 824g.


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## KingShapton (Mar 10, 2022)

Because you live in Greece you have a huge advantage...seriously, as far as I know these stones are really cheap to get in Greece.

@cotedupy is absolutely right, don't buy one, buy several and try them all. Try them with water, try them with oil and compare multiple stones. They are natural stones, which means every stone is different, there are good, bad and outstanding stones.

With your "home advantage" you can try and choose one (or more) really good stones. If I were in Greece I would do it like this!

One word of advice - from what I know about these stones you will probably need to flatten them in most cases before you can actually use them.


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## KingShapton (Mar 10, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> I prefer them with oil, though tbh I've only tried very briefly with water. I'd be interested to know whether you can also get a nice bevel finish with water @KingShapton ...?


That works too, although I have to admit that your results with oil look a little better than my results with water.

But don't forget that I don't really care about polish or kasumi...my main focus is on sharpening.

Unfortunately I can't take a picture of my attempts right now. I hadn't done any and unfortunately I have to take a break from sharpening again at the moment... @cotedupy you know the reason, unfortunately it's the same as last year,☹

At the moment I'm happy if I can sharpen a pocket knife from time to time and not have to regret it afterwards. I hope that changes soon!!


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## Thpp9 (Mar 10, 2022)

Thank you very much for your responses! It definitely seems like an interesting stone and I will definitely add it to my collection. As mentioned above, I have a "home advantage". It would be a waste if I don't experience it myself. Hopefully I grab one soon. I will update with my experience when I get my hands on one!

Thanks again for your input!


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## spaceconvoy (Mar 10, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> My Cretan is: 172 x 70 x 26 and 824g.


They got back to me very quickly, I'm the lazy one, just so we're clear. They said:

"There is a stone in the dimension 18cm long, 7.5 cm wide and 3 cm thick and the weight is 1130 gr"


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## cotedupy (Mar 10, 2022)

spaceconvoy said:


> They got back to me very quickly, I'm the lazy one, just so we're clear. They said:
> 
> "There is a stone in the dimension 18cm long, 7.5 cm wide and 3 cm thick and the weight is 1130 gr"



Ah cool! That sounds a good option I'd have thought. I think @Desert Rat was looking for one too, perhaps you could guys could ship together and then send on, to save on international postage costs (?)

What website was this btw? Occasionally people ask me about wanting to buy them, so it'd be good to know an EU vendor that will ship to the states so I can recommend...


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## cotedupy (Mar 10, 2022)

Thpp9 said:


> Thank you very much for your responses! It definitely seems like an interesting stone and I will definitely add it to my collection. As mentioned above, I have a "home advantage". It would be a waste if I don't experience it myself. Hopefully I grab one soon. I will update with my experience when I get my hands on one!
> 
> Thanks again for your input!



Look forward to hearing your thoughts! I am sure you will like - quite apart from being from your home country, they are just one of the very best whetstones ever quarried anywhere.

And given how cheap they domestically - it might be worth getting a couple as KS said above. You could have one with oil and one with water if you wanted. I get the impression that quality control is probably a fair bit higher now than it was for old 'Turkish' stones, so I doubt you'd get a dud to be honest. There just might be a bit of variation in terms of 'grit' level. I only have one of the modern Cretan stones atm but another is on the way to me, and if I lived in Greece I'd probably have at least five!


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## spaceconvoy (Mar 11, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Ah cool! That sounds a good option I'd have thought. I think @Desert Rat was looking for one too, perhaps you could guys could ship together and then send on, to save on international postage costs (?)
> 
> What website was this btw? Occasionally people ask me about wanting to buy them, so it'd be good to know an EU vendor that will ship to the states so I can recommend...


The one linked in the first post here (cretanknives.gr) though the stone options disappeared on me today. Yesterday there were a dozen different weights to choose from but now they're gone, in my browser at least. I tried checking out with a random synthetic stone and shipping to the US was €50  plus I just filled up on gas today and feeling like maybe I don't need a new stone right now... Nice that they were very responsive and willing to pick out the closest stone to the size I requested, so maybe in the future I'll try them again.


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## KingShapton (Mar 11, 2022)

@Thpp9: Since you can get the stones very cheaply, it might also be an idea to buy a small stone as a Nagura. At least if you use one of the stones with water... You might also condition the surface of the stone in this way....might be worth a try too?!


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## cotedupy (Mar 11, 2022)

Oh dear! Maybe you've reminded them to go check and see if they have any stock... options don't come up for me either any more. And yeah shipping from EU to America can be a killer (weirdly it's much, much cheaper from Aus). Though even with that it still might have about the same as Griffiths were selling for, which was $90 + shipping for slightly smaller stones.

TBH I don't know if and when the Cretan stones will be made again, though OP will know more about their current availability in Greece. It's my understanding that the stones were cut kind of as a special request, and would probably represent less than 0.01% of the same stone sold by that company (owned by the Perakis family). The very large majority of it is sold either raw or powdered for use in ceramic manufacture I believe. Though there may well be other companies on Crete who sell the same and also cut sharpening stones.


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## Skylar303 (Mar 11, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Definitely get one! Get more than one. Get ten. They are amazing.
> 
> The Cretan stone was known for a long time as the famous Turkish Oilstone / Turkey Stone, and was regarded for most of the last 2000 years as the very best sharpening stone in the world. It still has a pretty strong claim to that IMO.
> 
> ...


That's what I've concluded as well.  There's quite a bit of wishy washy info between names. You probably read the same but "Turkish oilstone/Turkey oilstone was believed was the name given to the Cretan's that were shipped to the EU markets and sold under that name.


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## Skylar303 (Mar 11, 2022)

.


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## pentryumf (Mar 22, 2022)

To all who were speaking of Cretan stones, the website listed above by: Thpp9 of cretanknives has just recently updated the options list and have a full array from 200g all the way up to 4000g+.
shipping to US is $$$. I put an order in for 2 medium size and a mini for possibly slurry.
All in 170€.
Will update when arrive.

cheers


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## Skylar303 (Mar 22, 2022)

pentryumf said:


> To all who were speaking of Cretan stones, the website listed above by: Thpp9 of cretanknives has just recently updated the options list and have a full array from 200g all the way up to 4000g+.
> shipping to US is $$$. I put an order in for 2 medium size and a mini for possibly slurry.
> All in 170€.
> Will update when arrive.
> ...


Interested to see what they look like, if there's much variation between. Although most I've seen are pretty similar. I'm sure you'll like them.


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## spaceconvoy (Mar 29, 2022)

Just got my brick from Cretan Knives (~33 x 73 x 177mm, 1130g). Great service and overall price, €106 with shipping and wire transfer fees. It was hard to stomach the shipping cost being more than the stone, but in the big picture it feels like a bargain.

Have to say the stone was a few mm undersized from their quote, rounded up to the nearest 5mm, in case anyone is fussy about those things like me. Also it's not particularly flat, with over a half mm of deviation across both surfaces, both humped in the middle. That whiteish patch on the upper left corner is surface roughness where it's too low to flatten, not a color variation.

This is my first oil stone, so I don't want to say too much, but initial impressions are very good. It was slower than I expected from cotedupy's description, but I was only using soap and water. Definitely want to see how it improves with oil, but first I want to glue it to a base to alleviate my long-term fracturing/cleavage fears.

Still feels a lot faster than my Japanese naturals, and I was able to touch up a neglected Shun that had some veeeery small micro chips. It was more work than I'd prefer to do usually but I wanted to see how it performed. Seems like it will make a great touch-up stone.

The grit range looks wider than most of my Jnats, judging by the scratch pattern compared to how keen the edge feels, and feels most similar to my Aoto. I wasn't sure about deburring stainless on novaculite, but it worked. A little more difficult than my favorite Jnats, but I'm probably just not used to it yet. The coolest part was the feedback. It's so dense and resonant that you can feel every bit of remaining burr and exactly where it is on the edge.

Very interesting stone, and I suspect I'll be happy to have picked one up while they're available.


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## deltaplex (Mar 29, 2022)

Looking forward to revised thoughts after some further use.


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 1, 2022)

spaceconvoy said:


> View attachment 172410
> View attachment 172413
> 
> 
> ...



That's a cool looking stone nice size too. I would try with water first see how it sharpens. 

You could go to oil later. But once it's used as oil stone no going back. What was price is that Turkish lira? How does 106 translate to dollar?


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 1, 2022)

_Guess it's Euro makes more since._


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## KingShapton (Apr 2, 2022)

Keith Sinclair said:


> You could go to oil later. But once it's used as oil stone no going back.


Using water after using oil is possible without problems. Just use Simple Green or something similar as degreaser.


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 2, 2022)

My experience is with those rotating tri stones used in some pro kitchens. The bottom stone would sit in oil bath. Had one at culinary school someone tried to take oil out & use water it was a total mess. I got them into buying their own king stones discount at Cherry Japanese Imports in Honolulu. Used oil slip stones Arkansas to sharpen Ice carving chisels carried little can of oil in chisel bag. For kitchen knives water is clean as are your stones. 

Admit I've never even thought of taking oil stone to water esp. if stone is saturated with oil.


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## KingShapton (Apr 2, 2022)

Keith Sinclair said:


> My experience is with those rotating tri stones used in some pro kitchens. The bottom stone would sit in oil bath. Had one at culinary school someone tried to take oil out & use water it was a total mess. I got them into buying their own king stones discount at Cherry Japanese Imports in Honolulu. Used oil slip stones Arkansas to sharpen Ice carving chisels carried little can of oil in chisel bag. For kitchen knives water is clean as are your stones.
> 
> Admit I've never even thought of taking oil stone to water esp. if stone is saturated with oil.


Using Saturated Oil Stones with water is easy, with the right degreaser. I already said in another thread that I could kick myself in the butt that I was too lazy to buy Simple Green. It would have saved me a lot of work and unsuccessful attempts in the past.

But I completely agree with you, water is the clean solution for kitchen knives - I also resisted using oil stones for kitchen knives for a long time. Today I don't see a problem there anymore, you just have to be a bit careful if you have a progression with a mixture of oil and water stones so as not to contaminate the water stones with oil.

But other than that, man I love my oil stones!

The Cretan stone is an exception for me, it works with water or oil without any problems - both have their advantages and disadvantages. I would never use an Arkansas or Washita (my favorites!) with water.


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 2, 2022)

I hear you sharpening V chisels & gouges is a pleasure with oil. My old man used Arkansas oil stones for his wood tools building models for wind tunnels at NACA that later became NASA. 

Visit from Hawaii told him about Japanese waterstones. Gave him a waterstone & showed him technique for kitchen knives. He gave me walnut wood & enough chisels to carve with. I sent carvings back to family. Also did some Hawaiian open ocean sailing catamarans that I sold. Here's one with couple buccaneers in high seas.




Later after retired he bought Japanese carbon lathe tools sharpened with Waterstones. He was turning beautiful bowls into his 90's. 

When he died got rest of his chisels none of my siblings wanted them.


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## Runner_up (Apr 2, 2022)

Beautiful work, and story @Keith Sinclair

P.s. I really should get one of these stones


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## Skylar303 (Apr 2, 2022)

Runner_up said:


> Beautiful work, and story @Keith Sinclair
> 
> P.s. I really should get one of these stones


It might be worth seeing if someone else you know wants one as well, since shipping is a lot. And I think for that shipping cost that's the 4kg limit. So 2 or 3 stones, size dependant of course.


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## pentryumf (Apr 7, 2022)

The Cretan stones I ordered on March 24, just arrived.
There was a substitution due to the larger size not being available, ce la vie.

First impressions, similar feel to a soft ark,as porous as an Aoto, quite a variation of grit between stones, anything from 3k to 8/10k. I just used some soapy water and the feedback was very pleasant. The stones are roughly flat, a final dressing is necessary to maximize the edge finish.
I would purchase again, slightly larger and I would ask if they could prioritize a dark stone.
The small slurry stone is the darkest and is quite a bit harder than the larger tan stone, finishes in the 6kish range.
the stones swarfed quickly on a ZDP petty and the slurry stones are highly recommended they do a great job. Will post again after a bit more time to experiment. I would recommend thesefor the price even with shipping,maybe a bulk buy for group of interested.


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## deltaplex (Apr 7, 2022)

I'd be interested in a bulk buy...


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## Skylar303 (Apr 7, 2022)

pentryumf said:


> The Cretan stones I ordered on March 24, just arrived.
> There was a substitution due to the larger size not being available, ce la vie.
> 
> First impressions, similar feel to a soft ark,as porous as an Aoto, quite a variation of grit between stones, anything from 3k to 8/10k. I just used some soapy water and the feedback was very pleasant. The stones are roughly flat, a final dressing is necessary to maximize the edge finish.
> ...


Very cool. Bummer on the large size not being available. The one I have is pretty big and has a line running along the face that's almost straight. I thought about cutting it there and have a 1" and some change hone. And still around a 2" bench. The current size is sort of unwieldy...

I maybe be interested in another one. If they have a darker one like the slurry. Mine looks close to the one on the left.


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## KingShapton (Apr 9, 2022)

pentryumf said:


> The Cretan stones I ordered on March 24, just arrived.
> There was a substitution due to the larger size not being available, ce la vie.
> 
> First impressions, similar feel to a soft ark,as porous as an Aoto, quite a variation of grit between stones, anything from 3k to 8/10k. I just used some soapy water and the feedback was very pleasant. The stones are roughly flat, a final dressing is necessary to maximize the edge finish.
> ...


I am very happy that you are satisfied with the stones. And that the slurry stone works well.

These stones really have potential!!

I'm curious to hear more of your experiences...


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## Desert Rat (Apr 26, 2022)

I tried to order one a while back but had some issues with translation on my card when I went to type in the information.
I think I got it done now though. I ordered a 1001-1250gr stone. I have no idea how big that will be but I hope it is enough.


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## stringer (Apr 26, 2022)

Desert Rat said:


> I tried to order one a while back but had some issues with translation on my card when I went to type in the information.
> I think I got it done now though. I ordered a 1001-1250gr stone. I have no idea how big that will be but I hope it is enough.



1000 grams is 2.2 pounds. Should be big enough to keep you busy a while.


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## Desert Rat (Apr 26, 2022)

stringer said:


> 1000 grams is 2.2 pounds. Should be big enough to keep you busy a while.


I just bought a kilo...


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## cotedupy (May 1, 2022)

Desert Rat said:


> I tried to order one a while back but had some issues with translation on my card when I went to type in the information.
> I think I got it done now though. I ordered a 1001-1250gr stone. I have no idea how big that will be but I hope it is enough.



Smart move B. You’ll love it.

I just got mine back after being out on loan with my Kippington and Maruoyama Shiro Suita. You can probably guess which stone put the better edge on when I took ‘em for a spin again.

(That’s a 720g I think from memory. So 1kg is more than enough )


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## Skylar303 (May 1, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Smart move B. You’ll love it.
> 
> I just got mine back after being out on loan with my Kippington and Maruoyama Shiro Suita. You can probably guess which stone put the better edge on when I took ‘em for a spin again.
> 
> ...


I forget, did you say yours was always so dark or was a bit lighter until the oil? Mines more the color of your jnat...


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## cotedupy (May 9, 2022)

A little video looking at Turkish / Cretan stones if anyone's interested...


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## Desert Rat (May 11, 2022)

Seems in stock might not be in stock. My stone should ship today.


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## spaceconvoy (May 11, 2022)

small update: I've been busy with other life stuff and not active here lately. For various related reasons I've been using a basic vg10 Shun as my primary knife for the last two months. The edge off my Cretan stone has lasted longer than anything else I've experienced with this knife. I was hoping to give another update the next time I used the stone, but it's still decently sharp.


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## Naftoor (May 11, 2022)

uhhhh has anyone ordered the 4-5kg rock? Kinda wondering what it looks like, if it’s large enough I may be able to pass it off as a small table to get it past the missus and into the apartment


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## Desert Rat (May 11, 2022)

Naftoor said:


> uhhhh has anyone ordered the 4-5kg rock? Kinda wondering what it looks like, if it’s large enough I may be able to pass it off as a small table to get it past the missus and into the apartment


I could so pull that off. A base to an old bubble gum machine or somthing like these....


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## Desert Rat (May 12, 2022)

Got a tracking number. So in a few weeks or so.
Never met a piece of novaculite I didn't like so I'm a little excited to try this one out.


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## Desert Rat (May 19, 2022)

Stone arrived yesterday. Been lapping and and playing on it some.
Wet dry paper on a granite plate cuts the stone with out much problem. Can't find anything coarser than 220 so it was slow going. The stone was reasonably flat just some coarse lapping marks in it. It was a light colored stone some orange in it. Maybe iron?

I seem to prefer it on oil, it's a thirsty stone. Operating in the same range as washita's at the moment. I woke it up for awhile with a 700 grit plate. It was a very toothy edge, not sure how long that surface might last on this stone.


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## cotedupy (May 19, 2022)

Desert Rat said:


> Stone arrived yesterday. Been lapping and and playing on it some.
> Wet dry paper on a granite plate cuts the stone with out much problem. Can't find anything coarser than 220 so it was slow going. The stone was reasonably flat just some coarse lapping marks in it. It was a light colored stone some orange in it. Maybe iron?
> 
> I seem to prefer it on oil, it's a thirsty stone. Operating in the same range as washita's at the moment. I woke it up for awhile with a 700 grit plate. It was a very toothy edge, not sure how long that surface might last on this stone.




Nice one! I would soak it in mineral oil for a day or two.

Because they're relatively soft/friable I've never known a Turkish to glaze at all, I've never needed to refresh the surface of one ever after the initial lapping.

You can certainly get some funky colours in them, the one I swapped for with @stringer last year has all sorts going on in terms of colour; red, orange, pink, yellow, green through various parts of it. It shouldn't be noticeable in use I don't imagine; though they tend to be a little inconsistent throughout the stone, I don't find that splotches of colour affect that aspect. The very multicoloured one is also just about the most consistent I have in terms of uniformity of grit.


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## cotedupy (May 19, 2022)

The black parts of the lines in yours might be a little coarser though (?) I've seen that before...

---

Look forward to hearing your verdict once you've had a proper play around. As you say - they should occupy a broadly similar range to Washitas, though Turkish tend to start and finish slightly higher. Not quite as aggressive as most Washitas at the low end, but usually top out a little finer. Something to note if you do want it to finish very fine - you should wipe the stone down just before you finish, as you can get 'slurry dulling' from the particles.


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## captaincaed (May 20, 2022)

@Desert Rat what's the feeling like on water vs oil? I'm always fighting, wanting to find alternatives to oil, but I may need to throw in the towel in some cases.


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## M1k3 (May 20, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> @Desert Rat what's the feeling like on water vs oil? I'm always fighting, wanting to find alternatives to oil, but I may need to throw in the towel in some cases.


Simple green or Windex?


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## captaincaed (May 20, 2022)

Yeah those are my usual solutions (Har har). Recently discovered single phase makeup remover as an option, still playing but not bad.


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## Desert Rat (May 20, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> @Desert Rat what's the feeling like on water vs oil? I'm always fighting, wanting to find alternatives to oil, but I may need to throw in the towel in some cases.


I'm still playing with it, it takes me awhile to get in sync with a new stone. I was two or three weeks on my first coti..... I don't even know why.

At first I tried it on water with a surface that I had managed to polish on worn paper. It was slow with no swarf that I could see until the stones surface dried to reveal that the water just didn't suspend the swarf. The stone was a sponge at that time and I kept adding water. I probably wasn't using enough pressure either.

I'm going to take cotedupy's advice and soak in oil. I don't have enough on hand at the moment. I have had pretty good luck with water and dish soap even on oil soaked stones. So I will try that also.

It very well could be that I'm working on a stone surface that is too freshly lapped to reveal it's true character and not correctly prepped, but this is what I'm seeing so far....

The stone self slurry's with pressure and is producing real toothy aggressive edges. I haven't looked at them under magnification but they seem to be coarser than my Washita's. Noisey cutting newspaper. I haven't yet seen the upper end of the range I see with vintage Washita's.

I think this first take may well change with more use and an oil filled stone. I probably shouldn't have said anything until I knew more, so don't hold it against me if things change. But if they don't I won't be at all disappointed. It's a damn good stone right now and fast too.


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## captaincaed (May 20, 2022)

I think these evolving impressions are great. I'll read them in that spirit. Man, now I really want to play with one of these.


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## cotedupy (May 23, 2022)

Desert Rat said:


> I'm still playing with it, it takes me awhile to get in sync with a new stone. I was two or three weeks on my first coti..... I don't even know why.
> 
> At first I tried it on water with a surface that I had managed to polish on worn paper. It was slow with no swarf that I could see until the stones surface dried to reveal that the water just didn't suspend the swarf. The stone was a sponge at that time and I kept adding water. I probably wasn't using enough pressure either.
> 
> ...




I'm like this with new stones as well. I try to use them a lot, in various different ways, my opinions tend to change and evolve over time, and I like to think it gives quite detailed understanding of something after a while.

---

Oil soaking should make the stone act a little finer I think, though hopefully won't remove too much of the speed. I've never actually tried using soapy water on an oil filled one, I'll give a go later.

One thing to watch in terms of those very toothy, noisy edges you mention... Turkish/Cretan stones have a very marked tendency to raise wire edges - they can be very difficult to deburr on really well. It could be that you might have something like that, though you've been at all this far longer than I have so I'm sure know a wire edge when you've got one! The stones do leave a remarkable amount of bite for their level, though ime generally they finish a little higher than all but the finest Washitas.

It'd be interesting to hear if you find the stone notably changed after oil soaking. I've never fully degreased any of my old stones, so don't really know how they differ.


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## Desert Rat (Jun 8, 2022)

The stone did get finer with an oil soak. It is very much an oil stone in my opinion. It's much slower on soap and water even on an oil-soaked stone and approximating oils viscosity with a soap and water mix. Even with really light pressure there is a toothiness to the edges that I can't quite see with my loop but I suspect it's there and I might be able to see it with a little more magnification than I have. I would really like to see what these edges look like under more magnification. It's a different edge than I have felt off of my other novaculites. Plenty fine yet with more tooth.

It will slurry making it very fast for a natural stone. It would take a really fast Washita and more pressure to keep up with this stones speed. It operates in some of the same range of the Washita's.

It's just one stone and we all know they vary but I get a little more range off of most Washita's and in the upper end too. That might be the stone or just me. I'm going to play around with the edges on some woodworking tools to see if there is any real difference that I can notice.


I'm trying to figure out what factors came into play that made this stone fall out of favor to the Washita's? 
Perhaps harder to keep flat? More consistency in the Washita's surfaces? Cost?


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## M1k3 (Jun 8, 2022)

Desert Rat said:


> The stone did get finer with an oil soak. It is very much an oil stone in my opinion. It's much slower on soap and water even on an oil-soaked stone and approximating oils viscosity with a soap and water mix. Even with really light pressure there is a toothiness to the edges that I can't quite see with my loop but I suspect it's there and I might be able to see it with a little more magnification than I have. I would really like to see what these edges look like under more magnification. It's a different edge than I have felt off of my other novaculites. Plenty fine yet with more tooth.
> 
> It will slurry making it very fast for a natural stone. It would take a really fast Washita and more pressure to keep up with this stones speed. It operates in some of the same range of the Washita's.
> 
> ...


Shipping? At least in the America's?


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## deltaplex (Jun 8, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Shipping? At least in the America's?


This has been the barrier for me so far.


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## Desert Rat (Jun 8, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Shipping? At least in the America's?


It was brutal. More than the stone if I remember correctly. If you like natural oilstones it might still be worth it to you though.






Cretan Knives Skalidakis Natural Sharpening Stone of Crete Ladakono 6000/8000 Grit | Cretan knives


Manufacturer: Cretan Knives Skalidakis Code: ladakona Color: Grey Granulometry: 6000/8000




www.cretanknives.gr


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## M1k3 (Jun 8, 2022)

Desert Rat said:


> It was brutal. More than the stone if I remember correctly. If you like natural oilstones it might still be worth it to you though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Heh, yeah..... 48 Euros to 111 Euros 

Yeah no.


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## cotedupy (Jun 9, 2022)

Desert Rat said:


> The stone did get finer with an oil soak. It is very much an oil stone in my opinion. It's much slower on soap and water even on an oil-soaked stone and approximating oils viscosity with a soap and water mix. Even with really light pressure there is a toothiness to the edges that I can't quite see with my loop but I suspect it's there and I might be able to see it with a little more magnification than I have. I would really like to see what these edges look like under more magnification. It's a different edge than I have felt off of my other novaculites. Plenty fine yet with more tooth.
> 
> It will slurry making it very fast for a natural stone. It would take a really fast Washita and more pressure to keep up with this stones speed. It operates in some of the same range of the Washita's.
> 
> ...




Yeah... in large part, as @M1k3 said and you've experienced, the reason has always been the cost of getting stuff from A to B. A Lily White was less than half the price of a Pike Turkish stone. Even in the UK Washitas would have been considerably cheaper. Throw in the fact that Washitas occupy a largely similar range, and are far more consistent, and it doesn't seem that surprising to me.

There may also have been issues with supply; the sovereignty of Crete became increasingly hotly disputed during the course of the c.19th, following the Greek War of Independence. With the island veering between tentative peace, and outright revolt / civil war, culminating eventually in its own independence in 1898. (I wonder if anyone can think of any similar situations in the Mediterranean today...? ). Which probably wasn't particularly conducive to the continuation of quarrying whetstones or trade with other countries.


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## cotedupy (Jun 16, 2022)

Australia (unofficial home of the Turkish Oilstone) coming up with the goods again recently with this ebay pair arriving today. I could tell what they were from the pics tbh; the top is a Turkish, the bottom is a Coarse and Fine India.







The Turkish is heavily dished on one side, and somewhat chipped and beaten up at one end:







At this stage I think I'm probably going to lap the flat side to a usable state and leave the dished side, but first a little clean up. After which I notice something quite interesting...

While modern Cretans don't have a huge amount of variation from stone to stone - in general they seem to be positioned very nicely in the middle of the spectrum - the same can't be said for older stones. Which can be darker or lighter, coarser or finer, and various different colours. The rule doesn't always hold completely, but in general it seems that lighter coloured stones were often toward the coarser end, and darker ones finer.

I've never seen this before in a Turkish Oilstone, but what popped out of the wash was a stone with a very distinct demarcation between a light layer and a darker. So obviously I decide to lap both sides to see if I can make me a natural Turkish Combi... 







Which actually doesn't take long; this is easily the softest Turkish I've had, and has the lowest SG @ 2.55. The division or combi nature of the stone is very apparent now:







From there I just take the tatty bit off the end to make it into a nice rectangle, et voila... a beautiful little 5.5 x 2" Turkish travel 'combi'!


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## Legion74 (Sep 2, 2022)

I bought a gunk covered stone in an antique store today, guessing it might have been a hard Arkansas. Turned out to be a nice old Turkey stone. Happy with that.


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## jwthaparc (Sep 4, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Definitely get one! Get more than one. Get ten. They are amazing.
> 
> The Cretan stone was known for a long time as the famous Turkish Oilstone / Turkey Stone, and was regarded for most of the last 2000 years as the very best sharpening stone in the world. It still has a pretty strong claim to that IMO.
> 
> ...


That does sound nice, but there must be something else to them, for them to hold the title for the best stones in the world for that amount of time. 

I've never heard of them before so I would love more info on them.


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## cotedupy (Sep 4, 2022)

jwthaparc said:


> That does sound nice, but there must be something else to them, for them to hold the title for the best stones in the world for that amount of time.
> 
> I've never heard of them before so I would love more info on them.




Did you read the my posts in that thread I linked to (the first two and the various follow ups)? There's a pretty decent whack of info there, probably more than anywhere else because a lot of that research I did myself.


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## jwthaparc (Sep 4, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Did you read the my posts in that thread I linked to (the first two and the various follow ups)? There's a pretty decent whack of info there, probably more than anywhere else because a lot of that research I did myself.


Ugh . But then I have to click to do that. 

Man you guys make my life so hard.


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## Legion74 (Sep 26, 2022)

I got a new one yesterday, so time for a group shot. 

Cretan on the left. The rest are antique Turkey stones.


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