# What is the thinnest "laser" gyuto?



## deanb (Sep 26, 2013)

The only real laser I own is a 270 mm Wa Suisin Inox Honyaki. It measures 2 mm on the spine over the heel and weighs 173 gms. I like this knife a lot but collecting kitchen knives is my hobby and I'm wondering if there are any thinner lasers out there, preferably in carbon, in the same league as the SIH. I also have a SIH 210 mm Wa petty but don't think I want anything thinner. It measures 1 mm on the spine over the heel and weighs 68 gms. Of course if there were a thinner knife in carbon I would be interested.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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## Von blewitt (Sep 26, 2013)

The iikanshi tadatsuna Gyuto in white#2 I had was the thinnest knife I've owned. Takeshi has it at 2mm at the spine on his site.


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## Seb (Sep 26, 2013)

My Sakai Yusuke White #2 regular model Wa-gyuto is pretty darn thin, esp the tip which is just sick. Yusuke also make extra thin bespoke for BWJ, I can't even imagine how thin that could be.


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## kartman35 (Sep 26, 2013)

The Yusuke extra thin gyuto is pretty skinny...my 210 weighs 87 grams and I think the listing had it at 1.6 mm. Never measured it though


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## berko (Sep 26, 2013)

sakai yusuke has a "extra thin" option. if i recall it right, the spine measures 1.3 mm on the heel.


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## CrisAnderson27 (Sep 26, 2013)

Keep in mind the number at the spine over the heel isn't really relevant to its status as a cutting knife. Much more important are the numbers above the edge. I'd be very interested in seeing where the knives you've all listed stand at three points...1cm above the edge at the heel, 1cm above the edge at midblade, and 1cm above the edge precisely where it meets the spine (usually about 1cm back from the tip). If you really wanted to check thoroughly, you could measure 2cm above the edge as well.

I'll go first:

Early Forgecraft
1cm - 1.04mm, 1.17mm, 1.15mm
2cm - 1.77mm, 1.88mm, 1.80mm 
3cm - 1.97mm, 1.99mm, 2.01mm

Don Nguyen Gyuto
1cm - 1.13mm, 1.00mm, .70mm
2cm - 1.97mm, 1.67mm, .81mm (k-tip) 

The thinnest knife I've handled personally was one Son sent me, no clue who made it:
1cm - .87mm, .98mm, .58mm
2cm - 1.54mm, 1.54mm, 1.40mm
3cm - 2.09mm, 2.03mm, 2.02mm


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## Justin0505 (Sep 26, 2013)

i dont understand the 3 rows. Are the 1,2,and 3cm above the edge at heel, mid blade and tip? if so, how to do you measure 3cm above the tip at the spine?


Personally, I've never understood the fascination with thinness. Really light knives feel weird and don't carry much momentum to help you finish the cut. Plus, if a blade is to too thin overall it will have insignificant convexing (so stiction will be bad), and worst of all, flex / terrible rigidity.

I used a cutco knife that was thinner at the spine than anything that I currently own and it was terrible. Del also used to make ULTRA thin gyutos and pretty quickly changed to something that was still thin bte, but more substantial at the spine. 
[video=youtube;_F4IhGKh-Xc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F4IhGKh-Xc[/video]


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 26, 2013)

To date my favorite Knife is my 240 Yusuke Sakai White #2 Special Thin 1.6 spine at handle. I also special ordered tow other Yusuke's. They are the MPukas/Blueway collaboration. Slightly flatter but with 2.8 at the spine. I enjoy this knife but the white #2 is still my favorite. The Ealy that Salty was talking about is flat ground. The White # has some convexity on the right face but it pretty much flat on the left face. 

Justin, I enjoy light knives kinda for the opposite reasons of why you like heavy ones. I prefer a very light touch in cutting foods. I'm more surgical and very deliberate when I'm using my knives. Hey, I'm a home cook cooking for two young girls, so I'm not ripping up cases of miripoux. Pro enviornment is a different animal, we all know that. 

People talk about flexing in knives, but if you really need to use that much force to get though your products, perhaps you should have a thicker knife or get the stones out. But for cutting onions, herbs, peppers, proteins, lettuce, cabbage, greens, potatos... put an ultra laser in my hand on my end grain cherry cutting board and I'm in Knife Nut heaven.


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## chinacats (Sep 26, 2013)

Interesting thoughts MB. I too am just a home cook but prefer a slightly heavier knife myself. I have tried lasers and truly enjoyed the way they slid through food but just couldn't get used to the feel. I grew up using Henckel's and Sab's prior to using J-knives so perhaps that has something to do with enjoying a heavier blade. My revelation with Japanese knives was having the weight shifted more toward the blade and letting that weight do the work for you. That said I still want to add a laser to my collection at some point and I think I remember someone saying that Jon maybe doing a flatter profile Ginga at some point?


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## bkdc (Sep 26, 2013)

I wish I could handle the special thin Sakai Yusuke. My thinnest performing knife was recently sold. It was the 240mm Kazuyuki Tanaka R2 damascus wa-gyuto. It was incredibly thin on the distal 1/2 with an aggressive taper. My laser Sakai Yusuke 'standard' and Konosuke HD can't hold a candle to how thin the Tanaka felt (lack of cutting resistance)


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 26, 2013)

CC I hear ya and the blade forward design of many J knives will aid in cutting ease and feedback. I can't imagine working with a knife that is over 170 grams. I als grew up with Dexter but mostly Cutco. Mom's still got a Home Maker though the BST is changing that. 

I think of the Yusuke 1.6 Special Thin Gyuto more like a light Saber


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## Zwiefel (Sep 26, 2013)

the more knives I handle, the more I love lasers. I'm sure part of that is being a lefty....but I also haven't really been able to use any of the top-tier workhorse knives...and maybe my usage profile wouldn't fit what makes them special....

I sure as hell love the DTN + SIH though


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## CrisAnderson27 (Sep 26, 2013)

CrisAnderson27 said:


> Keep in mind the number at the spine over the heel isn't really relevant to its status as a cutting knife. Much more important are the numbers above the edge. I'd be very interested in seeing where the knives you've all listed stand at three points...1cm above the edge at the heel, 1cm above the edge at midblade, and 1cm above the edge precisely where it meets the spine (usually about 1cm back from the tip). If you really wanted to check thoroughly, you could measure 2cm above the edge as well.
> 
> I'll go first:
> 
> ...





Justin0505 said:


> i dont understand the 3 rows. Are the 1,2,and 3cm above the edge at heel, mid blade and tip? if so, how to do you measure 3cm above the tip at the spine?



Basically at the tip I measure where 2 and 3cm hit the spine. 1cm is usually about 1cm back from the tip, then 2 and 3cm respectively farther back from the tip. It really helps me get a good picture of the taper profile of the spine, while allowing me a consistent form of measure. When I measure a knife I first trace the profile into a drawing sketchbook. From there I make dots for my measuring points (I measure the entire blade at 1cm breaks all the way to the spine in four separate areas...heel, midblade, 5cm from tip, and 1cm from tip), and note the thickness. It really gives you a much different picture of how a blade will perform, as compared to the typical '2mm over the heel at the spine' thing. More even than what you'd get from just looking 1cm above the edge.

By the way, for those of you that don't have them...digital calipers are cheap at places like Harbor Freight...and make for an interesting tool to help with comparisons like these.


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## brainsausage (Sep 26, 2013)

Mucho Bocho said:


> To date my favorite Knife is my 240 Yusuke Sakai White #2 Special Thin 1.6 spine at handle. I also special ordered tow other Yusuke's. They are the MPukas/Blueway collaboration. Slightly flatter but with 2.8 at the spine. I enjoy this knife but the white #2 is still my favorite. The Ealy that Salty was talking about is flat ground. The White # has some convexity on the right face but it pretty much flat on the left face.
> 
> Justin, I enjoy light knives kinda for the opposite reasons of why you like heavy ones. I prefer a very light touch in cutting foods. I'm more surgical and very deliberate when I'm using my knives. Hey, I'm a home cook cooking for two young girls, so I'm not ripping up cases of miripoux. Pro enviornment is a different animal, we all know that.
> 
> People talk about flexing in knives, but if you really need to use that much force to get though your products, perhaps you should have a thicker knife or get the stones out. But for cutting onions, herbs, peppers, proteins, lettuce, cabbage, greens, potatos... put an ultra laser in my hand on my end grain cherry cutting board and I'm in Knife Nut heaven.



I'm a pro, and treat all of my prep like surgery(whether it's fifty pounds of potatoes, or frenching lambs) and far prefer heavier knives. I wouldn't make such heavy handed comments.


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 26, 2013)

Sausage, Save me your petty insecurities before you provoke a pro/home cook flame war.

If you're into thick knives, maybe you should go back to your mom's Cutco.


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## brainsausage (Sep 26, 2013)

I'm obviously famous for provoking people on this forum. Thanks for calling my bluff. Appreciate you going straight to crappy insults rather than opening a dialog.


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## brainsausage (Sep 26, 2013)

Mods. Please delete my posts. I shouldn't have said anything in the thread. Sorry...


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## CrisAnderson27 (Sep 26, 2013)

/sigh!

ETA~ I enjoy posts from both the home user AND the pro chef. I'm a home user myself...but what I'm finding is personal preferences are simply that...personal. In reading through the forums I've found that those preferences don't seem to have a lot to do with who the user is, or what their job. I know some chef's who prefer a laser, while some like sausage prefer heavier knives. Its about technique, training, and feel...not your job.

Oh, and...can't we all just get along?!


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## harlock0083 (Sep 26, 2013)

brainsausage said:


> Mods. Please delete my posts. I shouldn't have said anything in the thread. Sorry...



Preference is just that preference. You're okay in my book. Too bad it doesn't count for anything. I like knives with some heft to it myself, but after trying a Yusuke I like lasers too.


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 26, 2013)

BrainS, Sorry just rubbed me the wrong way. Your feedback has always been valuable and well intended. You deserve the benefit of the doubt.



brainsausage said:


> Mods. Please delete my posts. I shouldn't have said anything in the thread. Sorry...


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## brainsausage (Sep 26, 2013)

Mucho Bocho said:


> BrainS, Sorry just rubbed me the wrong way. Your feedback has always been valuable and well intended. You deserve the benefit of the doubt.



Thank you. And I apologize if my above comment came across as snarky, it wasn't intended as such.


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## bahamaroot (Sep 26, 2013)

I love my lasers but there are times I like some heft in my knife. Sometimes nothing more than just my mood determines what I want to use. Exactly why I own so many knives.


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## Keith Sinclair (Sep 26, 2013)

I agree that thin behind the edge is more important than spine.I have the Sakai thin 1.6 white steel it's a keeper.Prefer thin knives for alot of cutting for banquet prep.kept a thicker J-gyuto for some cutting.At times I like a little heft wt. a cleaver.:viking:


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## JohnnyChance (Sep 26, 2013)

Kagekiyo, especially the stainless variety.


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## labor of love (Sep 26, 2013)

theres a time and place for thicker knives and thinner knives IMO. It took me a while to adjust to how light most lasers are, but after alot of use, you get used to it. same goes for heavier knives, my first couple of uses with my kato felt like i was weilding an axe, now it feels normal. just call me captain obvious,lol.


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## bahamaroot (Sep 26, 2013)

labor of love said:


> theres a time and place for thicker knives and thinner knives IMO. It took me a while to adjust to how light most lasers are, but after alot of use, you get used to it. same goes for heavier knives, my first couple of uses with my kato felt like i was weilding an axe, now it feels normal. just call me captain obvious,lol.


Captain Obvious


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## mzer (Sep 26, 2013)

another not a fan of thinner knives.


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## apathetic (Sep 27, 2013)

I am using a sakai yusuke gyuto and love it. My only experience with heavy knives is with really cheap ones, so I don't know how a good high end heavier knife would feel like.

@labor of love: do you use your knives depending on your mood, or depending on what you're preparing?


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