# Demeyere Atlantis and induktion.



## HappyamateurDK (Aug 6, 2022)

Hi all. 

This might very vel be my first ever non-knife post on this great forum. I'm pretty sure it is. 

I'm looking for a new 28 cm saute pan, it will be used on a Electrolux induction cooktop.

I'm really close to ordering a demyer Atlantis. It should be very effective on induktion. But some users claim it to be almost too effective so it's difficult to keep it down at low heat simmering.

It's a bit expensive peace of gear. So before ordering I would like to ask if any of you guys in here have any experience using the Demeyere Atlantis products on induktion? Is it good or is it actually hard to controle at low heat? 

Have a nice weekend.


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## McMan (Aug 6, 2022)

I had an Atlantis a while back. A very nice pan. What I didn't like was that where the wall met the bottom was 90-degrees. Functionally in use, this meant is was very difficult to get a utensil in there. I got rid of the pan for this reason. (This might be the nature of the beast for most disk bottom pans though?)


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## Pertti (Aug 7, 2022)

Hi, I have a "22 cm" 3600W as the biggest hob on my AEG induction cooktop. 

At least if you have a comparably sized induction cooktop, I would try steer you away from that biggish Atlantis saute and towards a thick aluminum disc pan, such as this Fissler OP 28cm low roaster for example. I have one of these with a flat lid:








https://www.fissler.com/gb/products/product-detail/original-profi-collection-round-roaster/



This Fissler has an about 8,5 mm total bottom thickness. It can hold a good amount of heat for searing big amounts of protein well on induction, all while having a nice and evenly heated bottom. You can probably find this for less money also and the fit and finish of these is very good and they can be put through the dishwasher no problem. They may not look as appealing as the Demeyere though.

While I don't own the Atlantis saute, for reference I own for example a 24 saute and 28cm frypan in Falk copper core, with their 1,9 mm copper. In Atlantis series I would be most interested about their saucepans for induction.


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## sansho (Aug 7, 2022)

HappyamateurDK said:


> I'm looking for a new 28 cm saute pan, it will be used on a Electrolux induction cooktop.
> 
> I'm really close to ordering a demyer Atlantis. It should be very effective on induktion. But some users claim it to be almost too effective so it's difficult to keep it down at low heat simmering.
> ...
> Is it good or is it actually hard to controle at low heat?



i don't think anyone can answer this unless they have the same cooktop you have. it completely depends on how much control/resolution you have over the low range of output.


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## MarcelNL (Aug 7, 2022)

agree with what Sansho wrote, I'm using a Demeyere pro non stick, a Silit ceramic, a Fissler Rondo and some Debuyer Steel pans and my experience is that once the pan is good enough the level of control is driven by the cooktop (a mid range small Neff here, works good but not very ergonomic in use). Mediocrer pan on a good range results in bad heat control IME, no experience with Electrolux induction as this is my first one.


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## Pertti (Aug 8, 2022)

I guess I am bored, but I digged a few old pictures of my Fissler and Falk copper core pans scorching flour on my AEG induction cooktops biggest hob, which is a 22cm "ring" with 3600w (turbo-power setting). These I had originally posted on Chowhound (RIP) in a certain heated thread haha <3.

The pans: 

Falk copper core 28 cm sloped fry pan, 1,9 mm copper in the core, the rest ss up to 2,5mm total.
Fissler Profi 28cm straight wall low roaster, about 8,5 mm or so total thickness as I have measured and IIRC also Fissler stated as such for the 28cm straight wall vessels.

First picture is with the Falk Copper pan, heated with some shortening and flour on a medium setting of 6/9 IIRC constantly. Notice how it don't look so good. For anyone who may not know, induction heats in a donut shape, much smaller than the diameter painted on the hobs generally.





The next picture is with the Fissler pan, using the same setting. There is more flour, but the evenness is very good.




The third picture is with the Falk pan again, but heated on a lower setting of like 3,5-4/ 9 or something IIRC. Now it looks much better than in the first picture, but not very good yet still.







The Falk is a frying pan, in case it was a straight wall pan like the Fissler and had equal floor diameter, the difference would look worse yet for the Falk.
That said, I have cooked many great meals on the Falk as well and when fully preheated, it can also put up pretty even browning accross the floor eg for steaks or meatballs, at least for a while.

As one can deduct from the pictures, the Falk copper core, or any of the pans beneath it in performance, in the fully clad class (which is everything, except Demeyere Proline) will start struggling more and more though once the preheated energy is gone and we are replacing the heat energy from the induction "donut" in the middle. The higher the setting, the worse it is. Say a bigger bunch of ground beef or chicken slices etc, a steak after the turn. Always better in the thick disc pans. 

My wife who is not so into cookware (or knives for that matter  ) once told me the "you know this Falk isn't heating all so evenly", or something like that, and that pretty much tells the story, really. Or the fact that she often burned food in the center of the Falk, while with a frypan pan like our Paderno GG 11114-28, she would burn the entire bottom .

What I mean to say with this post is that the Atlantis sautes with their 2,0 mm copper and 1,7mm stainless, should do slightly better on evennes than my Falk on my cooktop, but not so much.

I like to say that my smaller Falk 24 cm frypan still works pretty nicely for me though on the biggest hob, but most of the time it would need to be used on the smaller ones, so I end up using disc based pans instead of it generally and I prefer them otherwise also, tbh, the heat is better diffused. So for saute and frying pans (and big saucepans also), I have come to the conclusion that I somewhat strongly prefer thick alu disc based, or hybrid pans for induction. 

So, I don't mean to say you have a bullet to dodge here @HappyamateurDK , but I would heartily recommend the Fissler for example instead of the Atlantis, and especially so in case you don't have a matching 28 cm or so induction hob to go with the pan. In which case, I believe I would probably still go for the Fissler, had I the chance to compare.


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## MarcelNL (Aug 8, 2022)

I second the vote for the Fissler pro line, interesting comparison! I have a Debuyer stainless lined copper sautee pan that I'm smitten with because it heats perfectly even, finding out all the Fissler pans I got last December do the same was a great bonus!


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## Pertti (Aug 8, 2022)

MarcelNL said:


> I second the vote for the Fissler pro line, interesting comparison! I have a Debuyer stainless lined copper sautee pan that I'm smitten with because it heats perfectly even, finding out all the Fissler pans I got last December do the same was a great bonus!



Yeah, Fissler Profi are great for induction induction indeed. If I had to choose only one cookware line for induction, it could well be that one. I also have 5 of their saucepans/pots in addition to the roaster/saute. I really like my Lagostina Accademia Lagofusion frying pans though for example.

And nice that you are enjoying the DeBuyer, which model is it btw, and what is the size of the hob you are using it on?


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 8, 2022)

Pertti said:


> I guess I am bored, but I digged a few old pictures of my Fissler and Falk copper core pans scorching flour on my AEG induction cooktops biggest hob, which is a 22cm "ring" with 3600w (turbo-power setting). These I had originally posted on Chowhound (RIP) in a certain heated thread haha <3.
> 
> The pans:
> 
> ...


I gotta say that fissler looks like a really good buy. And I would jump it if I could get it locally. 

I've decided not to buy the Demeyere. Simply because I doubt the 28 cm base would fit my cooktop. 

A 3 option could be this De buyer..it should be 5 clad. And the wife sure likes the look of it. But any of you guys knows if it's any good on induktion?









de Buyer USA | Premium Cookware, Bakeware and Utensils Made in France


Since 1830, de Buyer has received worldwide recognition in manufacturing the finest handmade cookware, cutlery, bakeware & tools in France.




www.debuyer.com


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## MarcelNL (Aug 8, 2022)

this is the Debuyer I mentioned, I think mine is one size smaller, they have several in that line; de Buyer Prima Matera koperen sauteerpan 24 cm 6230.24


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 8, 2022)

MarcelNL said:


> this is the Debuyer I mentioned, I think mine is one size smaller, they have several in that line; de Buyer Prima Matera koperen sauteerpan 24 cm 6230.24


Wasn't yours the copper version ?


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## MarcelNL (Aug 8, 2022)

this a copper outside lined with stainless


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## Pertti (Aug 8, 2022)

24cm is considerably smaller, but the affinity is thin alu clad, I would still not recommend it personally for a pan like that on induction. If there is a 24cm Demeyere it would be better in comparison also..

From debuyer I would rather go with Milady. I have the 24cm frypan in this series. It may not be quite as robust as a Fissler, but comes with a thick enough bottom and looks pretty nice, though the shape differs....:









de Buyer USA | Premium Cookware, Bakeware and Utensils Made in France


Since 1830, de Buyer has received worldwide recognition in manufacturing the finest handmade cookware, cutlery, bakeware & tools in France.




www.debuyer.com





But since we now know your wifes style... how about these then:









Accademia Lagofusion® Ø cm 26 Stainless Steel Pots and Pans - Lagostina


State-of-the-art technology and refined design, perfect from cooking to serving. Accademia Lagofusion® is a range whose exceptional features express all of Lagostina's Made in Italy tradition.




www.lagostina.com





I might prefer the Fissler myself for a "straight" wall pan, but I love my Lagostina Accademia Lagofusion frypans and am confident these would serve you well.

Generally Fissler, Lagostina and DeBuyer have been available in Amazon europe sites. I have bought from Germany mainly.


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 8, 2022)

Pertti said:


> 24cm is considerably smaller, but the affinity is thin alu clad, I would still not recommend it personally for a pan like that on induction. If there is a 24cm Demeyere it would be better in comparison also..
> 
> From debuyer I would rather go with Milady. I have the 24cm frypan in this series. It may not be quite as robust as a Fissler, but comes with a thick enough bottom and looks pretty nice, though the shape differs....:
> 
> ...


I can't find the exact fissler you have. 

Du you think this would be good?









Fissler Original Profi Collection 084-588-28-000 gratin pan with high lid, 28 cm


Fissler Original Profi Collection 084-588-28-000 gratin pan with high lid, 28 cm: null




www.knivesandtools.com


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 8, 2022)

Or this one 









Fissler Original Profi Collection 084-388-28-000 serving pan 28 cm with high lid


Fissler Original Profi Collection 084-388-28-000 serving pan 28 cm with high lid: null




www.knivesandtools.com


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 8, 2022)

HappyamateurDK said:


> I gotta say that fissler looks like a really good buy. And I would jump it if I could get it locally.
> 
> I've decided not to buy the Demeyere. Simply because I doubt the 28 cm base would fit my cooktop.
> 
> ...


Thumbs up for Debuyer Affinity line. Its a 5 ply one piece construction and has been a top performer on my AEG induction hob. They don't warp (unlike my Cuisinart French Classic pans) and have great heat transfer (able to set the temp 1 or 2 positions lower for same cooking performance).


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 8, 2022)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Thumbs up for Debuyer Affinity line. Its a 5 ply one piece construction and has been a top performer on my AEG induction hob. They don't warp (unlike my Cuisinart French Classic pans) and have great heat transfer (able to set the temp 1 or 2 positions lower for same cooking performance).


Thanks for your input. It's getting harder and harder to chose


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## Pertti (Aug 8, 2022)

HappyamateurDK said:


> I can't find the exact fissler you have.
> 
> Du you think this would be good?
> 
> ...



Hi, yes the first one you posted, and I quoted, is the newer version of my pan, with nicer handles, but with the domed lid. The exterior bottom diameter of my pan is about 26,5 cm and it's the absolute max I can fit on my cooktop, considerable overhang for my hob, but still works great .

The second one, the serving pan, has a smaller diameter and somewhat thinner, but adequate disc base. It's the same as their 28cm frypan, but with double handles. Edit. Noticed also it has the dimpled surface... Maybe grab a regular flat surface..


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 8, 2022)

HappyamateurDK said:


> Thanks for your input. It's getting harder and harder to chose


This review might seal the deal. This guy uses gas mainly (and carbon) but does check out the pan on induction towards the end.


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 8, 2022)

Pertti said:


> Hi, yes the first one you posted, and I quoted, is the newer version of my pan, with nicer handles, but with the domed lid. The exterior bottom diameter of my pan is about 26,5 cm and it's the absolute max I can fit on my cooktop, considerable overhang for my hob, but still works great .
> 
> The second one, the serving pan, has a smaller diameter and somewhat thinner, but adequate disc base. It's the same as their 28cm frypan, but with double handles. Edit. Noticed also it has the dimpled surface... Maybe grab a regular flat surface..


Do I understand it right..does the serving pan have a thinner base then the saute pan?


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 8, 2022)

Corradobrit1 said:


> This review might seal the deal. This guy uses gas mainly (and carbon) but does check out the pan on induction towards the end.



He seems to like it on induktion


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## Pertti (Aug 8, 2022)

HappyamateurDK said:


> Do I understand it right..does the serving pan have a thinner base then the saute pan?



Yes, when both are 28cm, that should be the case. 

The 32 cm serving and frypans would then have the same base as the 28 cm saute. In equal diameter, the saute is the bigger pan and offers more cooking area and volume, while the smaller serving pan an easier access with utensils.

In more general sense, I suppose it can be in pans like it is in knives, one likes thicker than the other. A thinner pan is more responsive, but at the cost of bottom evenness and heat retention. Experience over a certain period of time will then show what a person likes more, or maybe they want to use both for certain things. 

In straight wall pans of 24cm, I already prefer thicker bottom on my cooktop generally, but its not like I would find that my 24cm Falk saute, which I also own would be just BAD on my cooktop. I sure would never get a 28 cm saute from Falk (or any clad manufacturer) for my current cooktop though and I also would not rebuy my 28cm frypan, having the experience that I have now. This hasn't been cheap for me lmao. I did really like my Falks upon arrival, it took a while to start noticing how I wanted to use thicker bottom pans.

I maybe wrong, but I do like to think though, that many using solely induction would start gravitating towards the thicker bottom pans eventually, especially in bigger pans, if they ever go there and compare with some level of thought over longer time. But as always, one likes the grandmother and so on, and maybe one day I go back to using more clad, for reason or another.

Good luck with however you choose, I don't mean to solely push you to a thicccc bottom pan, even if I would be glad to see you doing so, at least should you choose a 28cm size (seems you don't have a very large hob based on your comments).


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 9, 2022)

Thanks a lot for all your inputs. I ended up ordering the de buyer infinity in 28 cm. Time will tell if I chose right


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## damiano (Aug 9, 2022)

HappyamateurDK said:


> does the serving pan have a thinner base then the saute pan?


Yes, but you will still get +6.0mm of aluminum in the bottom, which is probably double of what the De Buyer would offer you.


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 9, 2022)

damiano said:


> Yes, but you will still get +6.0mm of aluminum in the bottom, which is probably double of what the De Buyer would offer you.



I'm sure the fissler is a great pan. Unfortunately the wife had something to say aswell. And the design just wasn't accepted


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## Pertti (Aug 9, 2022)

HappyamateurDK said:


> I'm sure the fissler is a great pan. Unfortunately the wife had something to say aswell. And the design just wasn't accepted



Did you show her the Lagostinas I linked though, those she would certainly approve  and they would be great.

These Lagostinas look and perform fabulous on induction.









Accademia Lagofusion® Ø cm 26 Stainless Steel Pots and Pans - Lagostina


State-of-the-art technology and refined design, perfect from cooking to serving. Accademia Lagofusion® is a range whose exceptional features express all of Lagostina's Made in Italy tradition.




www.lagostina.com


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 9, 2022)

Pertti said:


> Did you show her the Lagostinas I linked though, those she would certainly approve  and they would be great.
> 
> These Lagostinas look and perform fabulous on induction.
> 
> ...



I did..and she liked that aswell. But I couldn't get it locally. And I couldn't find much info about it.


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## Pertti (Aug 9, 2022)

Why locally? Weird 

Affinity cant have more than 2,0mm alu, likely less. In general that is not optimal for a 28cm saute on induction imho, but the sides are not close to vertical and there seems to be much rounding, debuyers often run a bit small also afaik. The flat cooking surface on that pan must be surprisingly small. So perhaps these combined you can like for something. I could see myself using it as a stainless wok (stir frys , because stir you must )or for boiling pasta for example.


The accademia lagofusion is a hybrid with a 7 mm or so bottom as they advertise and also aluminum inside the sidewalls. The alu in the sidewalls is thin, but the thick bottom nicely evens it out on the floor and the sidewalls get pretty hot also. The craftmanship is nice.

Maybe order also the Lagostina 28cm from the amazon.de and compare! Then return one if you want?


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 9, 2022)

Well..it might be an unusual opinion. But I prefer to buy locally and support local business. If we all buy online. Sooner or later the physical shops will be gone.

I don't know how thick the bottom is on the affinity. But it is 5 fly. So I assume it will have a bit of material thickness.


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## Famima (Aug 10, 2022)

Pertti said:


> In more general sense, I suppose it can be in pans like it is in knives, one likes thicker than the other. A thinner pan is more responsive, but at the cost of bottom evenness and heat retention. Experience over a certain period of time will then show what a person likes more, or maybe they want to use both for certain things.



Exactly this. I have a few Atlantis and a single Fissler 28" frypan, also a Mauviel m'cook 5-ply frypan - despite the consensus here, I much prefer the Atlantis over the Fissler (on gas, mind) due to the reduced heat capacity. The Fissler holds too much heat and is not responsive enough (for my style of cooking!); the Atlantis is (in my mind) the best of the bunch, the only downside is that it's heavy (like the Fissler, actually); the Mauviel is the only one you can really flip/toss single handed, it's responsive and heats evenly enough (at some point extra evenness doesn't actually get you anything!).


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## Michi (Aug 10, 2022)

Famima said:


> the Atlantis is (in my mind) the best of the bunch, the only downside is that it's heavy (like the Fissler, actually)


What's the weight of the Fissler? I have this one that is about 35 years old; it weighs 1.6 kg (3.5 lb). For a large pan such as this, I'd say that's quite light.


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## Jovidah (Aug 10, 2022)

I think beyond a certain minimum level it's hard to truly speak of best... it's all a compromise. I had a similar experience with the deMeyere proline vs multiline. IMO neither is truly better than the other; they're just different pans with different strengths. Yes, infinite milimeters of aluminium will be an awesome heatsink and give perfect heat distribution. But it will also make the pan slow as hell to heat up, slow to cool down, and potentially so heavy you can't properly toss food in it anymore.


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## Pertti (Aug 10, 2022)

Famima said:


> (on gas, mind)



Yeah, I have been talking strictly for induction here, as that OP is cooking on and I am also using. Induction is generally less evenly heating that gas. IIRC in my induction cooktops manual, there is even a recommendation to use thick base cookware.

On a nice gas cooktop, I imagine I would be often using bi-metal copper. But I believe I would still own the Fissler saute also, among some other disc ware, and also for example the mcook frypan you have might well be in my stack, as a lighter option.


For @HappyamateurDK though, I would still once more suggest just ordering the Lagostina saute also from Amazon germany . (Since your wife didn't fall for the Fissler). Then you can heft and compare both the Affinity and Lagostina, and after that, return one unless you want both. I'll be sad if you pick the Affinity though after that still, it would hurt too much, so I don't mind if you don't .

I'm just saying though, that there will be a rather big difference in how they spread and store heat for cooking bigger batches of food. You will need to stir more on the Affinity in a pan of that size, at least if you dislike the food not cooking so well around the edges. The nice thing about disc based pans is when you kind of crowd the pan, they the keep going well better than thinner, clad ones.

Here, one in stock. LAGOSTINA Accademia Lagofusion Pan CM 28 Height 12 cm



https://amzn.eu/d/i98cUll



btw, the 6 Falk Copper Core pans that I have been using for a couple years now are also better cladded cookware than the Affinity is thermally. The Falk has likely the same, or more copper than the Affinity has aluminum - and copper is a better conductor of heat. 

And yes I agree with Jovidah, in that there is a certain compromise in all things pans. For the 28cm saute being discussed here though, from my experience, I sit firmly in saying that thicker is better (for induction especially). There is not so much need for responsiveness in a pan like this IMHO. In some others, more, just not for a saute like this imo.


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## damiano (Aug 10, 2022)

Pertti said:


> There is not so much need for responsiveness in a pan like this IMHO. In some others, more, just not for a saute like this imo.


Agree with this. I cook on gas, and in ~28 cm I have the following saute pans: Mauviel 2.5mm copper, Fissler OP, and Le Creuset enameled cast iron dutch oven (low sidewalls 30 cm but fits like a 28). 

In large saute pans one typically cooks types of food that will benefit more from an even pan compared to a more responsive pan. So even though I use copper a lot, in larger diameters I can feel the 2.3mm of my Mauviel not being enough, so of the three mentioned above it's my least used pan.

I think for the OP, he just has to bite the bullet and try out the De Buyer. It's a different journey for everyone, and maybe for him the De Buyer will be enough. If not, he now has a wide range of alternatives. FWIW I also really love my Lagostina Lagofusion cookware.


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## Pertti (Aug 10, 2022)

Yeah, if he bought the rounded Affinity that he linked to,









de Buyer USA | Premium Cookware, Bakeware and Utensils Made in France


Since 1830, de Buyer has received worldwide recognition in manufacturing the finest handmade cookware, cutlery, bakeware & tools in France.




www.debuyer.com





at least it has a very small bottom area for a 28cm like I suspected. So that will make it seem like the pan heats somewhat evenly, as the bottom flat cooking area to heat is so small actually. In fact the same size as in the straight wall 24cm apparently.

So at least I would say its the better purchase than the straight walled affinity would be. The straight wall 28 would be pretty bad though then, at least for a regular 8" +- induction hob. For a bigger one I imagine it would get better, but probably still not for my tastes for a saute. While @HappyamateurDK hasn't confirmed, I have deducted the he currently likely uses a similar size hob as mine tough, as he implied the fear that the Atlantis 28cm would not fit on their cooktop.

I can imagine how badly the heat spreads after the rounded areas beyond the flat 20 cm in the rounded pan though when there is elevation. But I do have clad with a ~20cm flat bottom in Falk, so while the Affinity will be worse, I suppose that the flat area could do "a okay".

Needless to say that good food can be cooked in any though.. I'm just sour I couldn't get him on board with me ahaha, but I decided to keep pushing just a little still, since he can still turn back I guess, or order also the Lagostina. But yeah, these are just pans .. and I'll stop now, I guess..


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 10, 2022)

Pertti said:


> Yeah, if he bought the rounded Affinity that he linked to,
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Famima said:


> Exactly this. I have a few Atlantis and a single Fissler 28" frypan, also a Mauviel m'cook 5-ply frypan - despite the consensus here, I much prefer the Atlantis over the Fissler (on gas, mind) due to the reduced heat capacity. The Fissler holds too much heat and is not responsive enough (for my style of cooking!); the Atlantis is (in my mind) the best of the bunch, the only downside is that it's heavy (like the Fissler, actually); the Mauviel is the only one you can really flip/toss single handed, it's responsive and heats evenly enough (at some point extra evenness doesn't actually get you anything!).


I really appreciate your effort and who know..maybe I have made the wrong choice.. time will tell. 

It's the strait walled version I bought. The number is 3741.28


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## Pertti (Aug 10, 2022)

Thanks, 

time will tell yes indeed, it is a really nice looker! It should also have 18/10 on the outside, which is nice. And well, it doesn't always go right with knives either, right?

I (kind of don't) hope you fall in love with it. .


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 10, 2022)

Pertti said:


> Thanks,
> 
> time will tell yes indeed, it is a really nice looker! It should also have 18/10 on the outside, which is nice. And well, it doesn't always go right with knives either, right?
> 
> I (kind of don't) hope you fall in love with it. .


Thanks  it sure does looks nice. And it feels really solid and sturdy..almost heavy. Had you tried the affinity on induction yourself?


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## btbyrd (Aug 10, 2022)

Are there any induction units that don't suck? And by "suck" I mean "have comically small induction elements that can't evenly heat anything but the smallest pans." All the ones I've seen/used have induction coils that are way too small. That goes for the nice Vollrath one I own as well as the Control Freak I wish I owned. And it goes for all the full-sized rangelike cooktops I've actually seen anyone do the flour test with. I love the virtues of induction, which are real, but I hate the drawbacks.


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 10, 2022)

btbyrd said:


> Are there any induction units that don't suck? And by "suck" I mean "have comically small induction elements that can't evenly heat anything but the smallest pans." All the ones I've seen/used have induction coils that are way too small. That goes for the nice Vollrath one I own as well as the Control Freak I wish I owned. And it goes for all the full-sized rangelike cooktops I've actually seen anyone do the flour test with. I love the virtues of induction, which are real, but I hate the drawbacks.


Well.. I would say it depends a lot what pans and pots you use. But my Voss/Electrolux works pretty good. I used a stainless 12 liter pot with a 26 cm base the other day. Worked great for browning meat. But especially cast iron works really good on induction. I love my le creuser on induction


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## Pertti (Aug 10, 2022)

It is very beautiful @HappyamateurDK .

My Debuyer pans are a Milady ss frypan which is kind of a nice looker too and a 32cm B carbon steel countrypan with double handles.

I haven't tried Affinity on induction, but I have other clad, so the mentioned Falk copper cores, plus Fiskars Norden, a 26cm saute 3,5mm. 

Seeing your pan I am more and more tempted to get the Affinity saucepan that has multiple times sat in my Amazon basket though, but I have way too many pans already. I'm a pan dork.


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## MarcelNL (Aug 10, 2022)

btbyrd said:


> Are there any induction units that don't suck? And by "suck" I mean "have comically small induction elements that can't evenly heat anything but the smallest pans." All the ones I've seen/used have induction coils that are way too small. That goes for the nice Vollrath one I own as well as the Control Freak I wish I owned. And it goes for all the full-sized rangelike cooktops I've actually seen anyone do the flour test with. I love the virtues of induction, which are real, but I hate the drawbacks.


Initially I hated the small induction range in our current in-between-house, but I leanrned to work it....
Sure there are better ones, with more and finer control, but IME it all comes down to using th eproper pots and pans and -very important- learning to read them!
Induction in a commercial kitchen, I dunno...I'm sure it can be done, for home cooking it for sure can work IMHO.


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## btbyrd (Aug 10, 2022)

I'm happy that my induction unit has 100 power settings and a knob to select them. Most have a quite small number of power settings that you have to select using membrane switches or some other horrible soul-crushing technology. But my main gripe with induction is the coil size. If "using the proper pots and pans" means "only using small-to-medium pans," it's not really a workaround. Even high end/conductive/massive cookware can't alleviate the problem. Dust the pans with flour and check the browning pattern; even with copper core or something super thick like All Clad's D7, you'll get a 5 inch (or so) scorched donut in the middle of the pan and the rest will be significantly cooler. Evenly searing, say, scallops is next to impossible. Using cast iron or carbon steel, the results are much worse because they're such poor conductors.
My crappy electric glass-top resistance range has a 12" burner with an element that is actually 12" across. I can use my large saute pans, stock pots, dutch ovens, and whatever else on there without any issue. But I can only use like a third of my pots and pans (all of which are induction compatible) on my induction hob because they're too large and the heat is too uneven. 8" skillet? Fine. 1.5qt stockpot? Sure. 10" skillet? That's pushing it. And that's a shame.


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 10, 2022)

Pertti said:


> It is very beautiful @HappyamateurDK .
> 
> My Debuyer pans are a Milady ss frypan which is kind of a nice looker too and a 32cm B carbon steel countrypan with double handles.
> 
> ...


The milady series is very nice looking too.. unfortunately I seems they doesn't make a saute pan in that series. 

Fiskars makes some really good pans and pots too often at a reasonable price. I have a 28 cm Fiskars Rottiser+. it's the best aluminium pan for induction I've tried. 

I don't know if you know this brand.. but for non stick. My overall favourite is Scanpan HaptiQ stainless series. Those are really good. And still made en Denmark. 

I have a de buyer Mineral B 28 cm pan too. What are your experience with carbon pans on induktion? 

I probably won't have time to try out the. Affinity before the weekend. But I will make sure to come back with a review. I've really enjoyed this thread  thanks for all your input.


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## Helicon (Aug 10, 2022)

Pertti said:


> Thanks,
> 
> time will tell yes indeed, it is a really nice looker! It should also have 18/10 on the outside, which is nice. And well, it doesn't always go right with knives either, right?
> 
> I (kind of don't) hope you fall in love with it. .


I don't think it could have 18/10 on the outside, as that wouldn't be ferromagnetic.


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## Pertti (Aug 10, 2022)

btbyrd said:


> Are there any induction units that don't suck? And by "suck" I mean "have comically small induction elements that can't evenly heat anything but the smallest pans." All the ones I've seen/used have induction coils that are way too small. That goes for the nice Vollrath one I own as well as the Control Freak I wish I owned. And it goes for all the full-sized rangelike cooktops I've actually seen anyone do the flour test with. I love the virtues of induction, which are real, but I hate the drawbacks.



New cooktops often seem to have some double or triple zones, that activate by some logic for different sized cookware. I've seen up to 32cm "rings" online for home cooktops. Those of course should better heat a big pan, but I have no experience with those. I bet some here have models like them, though.

I would love to see a scorchprint with Darto n35 saute on some 32cm, or 28cm induction hob for example. or then with some big thin clad pan. It would tell a lot.

I was asking miele once about their full surface induction cooktops, those with multiple small rings. I asked if they would say they evenly heat bigger round pans. With that question, essentially they rather would have had me buy a cooktop with a 28cm round ring, which would offer up to 5500w for that single hob and said that does it best. The full surface ones are interesting, but maybe they would not really be so nice for round pans.

But sure I believe the Miele they suggested me would indeed be better than my current one at handling bigger pans, of course. I just have little idea how much better. But so this is also why I was asking about OPs biggest hob size.


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## Pertti (Aug 10, 2022)

Helicon said:


> I don't think it could have 18/10 on the outside, as that wouldn't be ferromagnetic.


I remembered seeing their video. This one:








Basically similar to demeyeres triplinduc. So the magnetic stainless is after the 18/10.


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## Helicon (Aug 10, 2022)

btbyrd said:


> Are there any induction units that don't suck? And by "suck" I mean "have comically small induction elements that can't evenly heat anything but the smallest pans." All the ones I've seen/used have induction coils that are way too small. That goes for the nice Vollrath one I own as well as the Control Freak I wish I owned. And it goes for all the full-sized rangelike cooktops I've actually seen anyone do the flour test with. I love the virtues of induction, which are real, but I hate the drawbacks.


The short answer is yes. Especially in Europe and Asia, there are both PICs and full-size cooktops that don't suck at all. In the U.S. even pretty basic induction cooktops and ranges cost far more than they should. For example, I bought my higher-end 60 cm Neff flexinduction cooktop for ~$800 back in 2017, while a similar cooktop in the U.S. retails for ~$2.5K. BTW, the 'flex' is because the cooktop has 9 smaller oval inductors that can be used to accommodate pans of different sizes. An oblong Dutch oven, for example, or a 10x15" teppanyaki fit perfectly. Even some of my bigger sauté pans activate 3-4 inductors. There are even higher-end so-called 'zoneless' induction cooktops made by Siemens and other companies (including Thermador) that have a matrix of 3" circular inductors, which simply adapt to where you've placed the pan on the cooktop and activate accordingly.

As far as inexpensive PICs go, I've read good things about the Max Burton XL: https://www.amazon.com/Max-Burton-6600-Digital-Induction/dp/B07QD7FZTP. It has a 9" induction coil, which is far larger than those found in most PICs or even built-in cooktops/ranges.

I've attached a photo showing my Fissler 32 cm serving pan on my Neff cooktop showing the results of the flour test/scorchprint. The temperature difference between the center of the pan and the base of the sidewalls was ~40°F.


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## Helicon (Aug 10, 2022)

Pertti said:


> New cooktops often seem to have some double or triple zones, that activate by some logic for different sized cookware. I've seen up to 32cm "rings" online for home cooktops. Those of course should better heat a big pan, but I have no experience with those. I bet some here have models like them, though.
> 
> I would love to see a scorchprint with Darto n35 saute on some 32cm, or 28cm induction hob for example. or then with some big thin clad pan. It would tell a lot.
> 
> ...


Right, my ideal cooktop would probably be something like this: NEFF - T59PS5RX0 - Induktionskochfeld

That central circular hob has three concentric inductors underneath, which can accommodate pans with bases from 21 to 32 cm in diameter. And there's a guy who used to post on Chowhound who routinely used 40-45 cm diameter pans on it successfully. Here's the manual showing the details: https://media3.neff-international.com/Documents/9001294663_C.pdf

Meanwhile, both lateral sections have four of the smaller flex inductors, so you could use rectangular or oval pieces of cookware with no issues at all. Or just use 1-2 smaller pots/pans on each side.


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## MarcelNL (Aug 10, 2022)

Helicon said:


> Right, my ideal cooktop would probably be something like this: NEFF - T59PS5RX0 - Induktionskochfeld
> 
> That central circular hob has three concentric inductors underneath, which can accommodate pans with bases from 21 to 32 cm in diameter. And there's a guy who used to post on Chowhound who routinely used 40-45 cm diameter pans on it successfully. Here's the manual showing the details: https://media3.neff-international.com/Documents/9001294663_C.pdf
> 
> Meanwhile, both lateral sections have four of the smaller flex inductors, so you could use a rectangular or oval piece of cookware with no issues at all. Or just use 1-2 smaller pots/pans on each side.


haha, we selected the (almost?) equivalent from Siemens


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## Pertti (Aug 10, 2022)

HappyamateurDK said:


> The milady series is very nice looking too.. unfortunately I seems they doesn't make a saute pan in that series.
> 
> Fiskars makes some really good pans and pots too often at a reasonable price. I have a 28 cm Fiskars Rottiser+. it's the best aluminium pan for induction I've tried.
> 
> ...


They have just this I guess then:









de Buyer USA | Premium Cookware, Bakeware and Utensils Made in France


Since 1830, de Buyer has received worldwide recognition in manufacturing the finest handmade cookware, cutlery, bakeware & tools in France.




www.debuyer.com





Yes, as you can imagine Fiskars are popular here in Finland. I used to have some also, but Im not using ptfe pans anymore since soon 4 years. I did use the Fiskars Norden ceramic coateds as a gateway drug to real stainless after that though still. I should have skipped that phase, but it was part of the learning curve lmao.

Even if I tried hard pushing you to a thiccc bottom stainless pan, I do indeed also use and even enjoy carbon steel and cast iron on my cooktop. Darto and Skeppshult, mainly. The evennes performance of course is not quite up to par, but they get a free pass and with a long preheat they can cook . Just not "quite" as evenly as my stainless options.

I sometimes use an alu-clad induction adapter under my nicely milled bottom 28cm Skeppshults though to help it even out a bit, and it does help, but its fiddly at best using it. I did not have as good experience with the adapter and my Debuyer countrypan sadly, it seems it cant pump the heat into it as well..

The adapter has small legs that elevate it from a little from the cooktop, so it hasn't so far fried the elctornics of my cooktop so thats nice though. Its 3 mm thick.


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 11, 2022)

Pertti said:


> They have just this I guess then:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Skeppshults are very Nice products. As you mention they are milled at the bottom. And therefore sit much better on a glastop stove then most enameled cast iron. I had a skeppshult pot as well as an old Danish made Copco(about 50 years old) but I ended up giving them away because the pure cast iron was a bit annoying when making acidic food. Like food with tomato or wine. 

Now all my cast iron is enameled, and it works great. But I usually put some work into finding the one in the store with the most flat bottom. It can vary quite a bit.


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## Pertti (Aug 11, 2022)

I also have enamelled cast iron and use it for cooking food on induction, just not as often as stainless, or bare iron pans. I use ECI in the oven of course, or then on the stovetop for cooking soups mainly. I also use them for storing soups cooked in stainless pans. I also use an ECI braiser sometimes for making bolognese, its a bit of one trick for me. Then an LC long handled saucepan for pizza sauce or perhaps boiling some potatoes if I am feeling fancy and want to do it .

ECI is in a bit of a bad spot for induction imo, since it heats badly, while serving a similar role as stainless, which can be good performers, provided thickness is on point for the task. Food can be cooked in ECI, but they are just not so good at spreading the heat. I also dislike hand washing ECI, as its more fragile and the sink and its surrounding can be a mess of stuff sometimes, then I'd need to clean it up enough to get nice access for washing the precious ECI pan, while my stainless I would toss in the DW or just on top of the other stuff there in the sink to wait for motivation. Not that I'd have any dings on my ECI, but still. 

Doesn't mean I wouldn't still like using them though, I do like to use them and want to own them, though I sure don't need all the 6 I have. I could go down to one cocotte and the braiser easily, the rest are either redundant or just collecting dust really. Somebody sell me an ECI, or a regular CI or CS for that matter though, but with an induction compatible heat diffusing disc attached to the bottom.


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 13, 2022)

Pertti said:


> It is very beautiful @HappyamateurDK .
> 
> My Debuyer pans are a Milady ss frypan which is kind of a nice looker too and a 32cm B carbon steel countrypan with double handles.
> 
> ...


Hi again 

So... The review 

The maiden voyage for the De buyer was taken making pasta( a bit like Ragu, but faster and with minced beef) 

First of all, it confirmed that is was a good choice not going the Demeyere.
way.. it would have bin too wide. 

The bottom is flat as a pool table, and I really appreciate that..not all pans and pot actually is. 

It response on induktion really fast. Even the walls become hot pretty quick. It's heat distribution is good and even, exept for the last outer 1,5 cm of the frying area towards the edge. That requires some extra time to get op to temperature. 

It browns the meat nicely, and with fluid in it it is possible to keep a really low temp simmering. 

The Finnish and built quality seems really hight. It is clear when using it that its main force is being really fast responding to cracking the heat up or down. Heat distribution is absolutely approved. It's good, but nok perfect.

And now to something that will make you happy. I found out that a 28 cm might be on the big side for everyday cooking for 3 people. Today I walked into a store that. At the very back of the store, almost hidden. Had a few red boxes. The dust suggest they had bin there for a while.. it was a small selection of lagostina pots and pans. And I had to bring home a 26 cm saute pan

A review of that will follow.









Accademia Lagofusion® Ø cm 26 Stainless Steel Pots and Pans - Lagostina


State-of-the-art technology and refined design, perfect from cooking to serving. Accademia Lagofusion® is a range whose exceptional features express all of Lagostina's Made in Italy tradition.




www.lagostina.com


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 16, 2022)

Hi again. 

The lagostina was in use tonight.

I'm gonna lay down flat. It's better then the De Buyer in every way. Exept perhaps the finish, but the difference is minimal. 

A joy to use.


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## Pertti (Aug 16, 2022)

I pretty much want that same Lagostina pan that you are now enjoying! A nice size and indeed, they are rather wonderful when it comes to induction cookware. I'm sure you will continue to like it more and more.

Did you get a good deal on it? There is a good deal right now on their 20cm saucepan on amazon.de, I actually got a 3xcamel for it, lowest price ever (edit. since 21 anyway lol) there, a mere 80 EUR. Just wish I didn't have all these pans already!


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 16, 2022)

Pertti said:


> I pretty much want that same Lagostina pan that you are now enjoying! A nice size and indeed, they are rather wonderful when it comes to induction cookware. I'm sure you will continue to like it more and more.
> 
> Did you get a good deal on it? There is a good deal right now on their 20cm saucepan on amazon.de, I actually got a 3xcamel for it, lowest price ever (edit. since 21 anyway lol) there, a mere 80 EUR. Just wish I didn't have all these pans already!


I'm pretty sure I paid full price for it. I paid about 255 Euro's for it. So it ain't cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if it can be found cheaper online. 

One thing though. I've never had stainless steel pans before. After use it had developed some faint bluish stains on the inside of the pan. Not on the middle, but out towards the he edge. 
Is this normal? I'm pretty sure I didn't overheat it. But I did use salt in the food.


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## Pertti (Aug 17, 2022)

HappyamateurDK said:


> I'm pretty sure I paid full price for it. I paid about 255 Euro's for it. So it ain't cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if it can be found cheaper online.
> 
> One thing though. I've never had stainless steel pans before. After use it had developed some faint bluish stains on the inside of the pan. Not on the middle, but out towards the he edge.
> Is this normal? I'm pretty sure I didn't overheat it. But I did use salt in the food.


Don't worry about the stains, its normal and I never clean the mild discolorations on any of my pans. The appearance can and will change over time.

You might get rid of them with some mild natural solution if you want, like ketchup or vinegar. I haven't explored them much though. Or the next time you make an acidic food in them they could be gone. If you want, you can get rid of them with bar keepers friend (BKF), or a similar product for sure, but for me its a bit of a waste. I resort to BKF then once the pan bottoms are covered in too much stubborn blackish stuff, nearing crust, for my tastes though.


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 17, 2022)

Pertti said:


> Don't worry about the stains, its normal and I never clean the mild discolorations on any of my pans. The appearance can and will change over time.
> 
> You might get rid of them with some mild natural solution if you want, like ketchup or vinegar. I haven't explored them much though. Or the next time you make an acidic food in them they could be gone. If you want, you can get rid of them with bar keepers friend (BKF), or a similar product for sure, but for me its a bit of a waste. I resort to BKF then once the pan bottoms are covered in too much stubborn blackish stuff, nearing crust, for my tastes though.


Thanks... I will leave it then. But do you have any idea why it comes? I would think it should be on the middle if it was caused be overheating?


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## Pertti (Aug 17, 2022)

HappyamateurDK said:


> Thanks... I will leave it then. But do you have any idea why it comes? I would think it should be on the middle if it was caused be overheating?


You probably didn't think you actually overheated it, but more in terms of enough to discolor or something. I think you are right though, you did not overheat the pan. Don't worry about the stains, they will appear somewhere, come and go etc.. The Lagostina should then also be a much better choice against the mishap of actual overheating (think warping) with its vastly thicker bottom compared to the Affinity pan, btw.


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## Famima (Aug 17, 2022)

Good to hear the Lagostina is a winner! Looks interesting actually, tempted to pick one up and the pricing seems very keen (I have a few holes in my collection of pans)... Couple of questions, if you don't mind? Is the handle solid? How thick is the lip? (One irritation with ply constructed pans is that the thick lip doesn't pour so well - Demeyere Atlantis gets this very right!)


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## Michi (Aug 17, 2022)

The rainbow stains are caused by chromium in the steel reacting with oxygen in the air to form an extremely thin layer of oxide on the surface. The thickness of that layer is stupidly thin (on the order of the wavelengths of white light). That layer refracts different wavelengths at different angles and causes the rainbow hues.

For all intents and purposes, the rainbow stains don't exist (other than visually). They won't interact with food, they don't change taste or smell—they effectively are not there. (The patina you see on carbon steel knives is much the same thing, a microscopic layer of oxide.)

Cook something else in the same pan, and the coloration may change, or disappear, or appear in different areas. It depends on the food, how much acid and salt is in it, how hot the pan gets, the phase of the moon, and whether a butterfly flapped its wings at the right moment on another continent…


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 17, 2022)

Famima said:


> Good to hear the Lagostina is a winner! Looks interesting actually, tempted to pick one up and the pricing seems very keen (I have a few holes in my collection of pans)... Couple of questions, if you don't mind? Is the handle solid? How thick is the lip? (One irritation with ply constructed pans is that the thick lip doesn't pour so well - Demeyere Atlantis gets this very right!)



Of course. Question are welcome!

It's hard to say if the handles are 100% solid. But they certainly feels and sounds very solid when knocking on them.

The lip is a bit on the thick side..I haven't got to try pouring anything from it yet. So I can't say if it has any negative effect.

Here they are very rare to find. And priced similar to the Demeyere Atlantis series. But I think we pay a bit much for them here compared to the rest of Europe.


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## HappyamateurDK (Aug 17, 2022)

Michi said:


> The rainbow stains are caused by chromium in the steel reacting with oxygen in the air to form an extremely thin layer of oxide on the surface. The thickness of that layer is stupidly thin (on the order of the wavelengths of white light). That layer refracts different wavelengths at different angles and causes the rainbow hues.
> 
> For all intents and purposes, the rainbow stains don't exist (other than visually). They won't interact with food, they don't change taste or smell—they effectively are not there. (The patina you see on carbon steel knives is much the same thing, a microscopic layer of oxide.)
> 
> Cook something else in the same pan, and the coloration may change, or disappear, or appear in different areas. It depends on the food, how much acid and salt is in it, how hot the pan gets, the phase of the moon, and whether a butterfly flapped its wings at the right moment on another continent…


Thank for explaining. Nice to know what causes it!


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## M1k3 (Aug 17, 2022)

Michi said:


> The rainbow stains are caused by chromium in the steel reacting with oxygen in the air to form an extremely thin layer of oxide on the surface. The thickness of that layer is stupidly thin (on the order of the wavelengths of white light). That layer refracts different wavelengths at different angles and causes the rainbow hues.
> 
> For all intents and purposes, the rainbow stains don't exist (other than visually). They won't interact with food, they don't change taste or smell—they effectively are not there. (The patina you see on carbon steel knives is much the same thing, a microscopic layer of oxide.)
> 
> Cook something else in the same pan, and the coloration may change, or disappear, or appear in different areas. It depends on the food, how much acid and salt is in it, how hot the pan gets, the phase of the moon, and whether a butterfly flapped its wings at the right moment on another continent…


That oxide layer helps ever so slightly with making the pan "non-stick".


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## Jovidah (Aug 17, 2022)

If you ever want it to look sparkly just use some lemon juice.


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## damiano (Aug 17, 2022)

One can find good deals on Lagostina Lagofusion if you look online, e.g. amazon Germany, France, and Spain. I’ve used several of these Lagostinas and still have a 18 cm saucepan, on gas. They are very good, performance reminds me of my Mauviel stainless steel lined copper.


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## blokey (Sep 27, 2022)

Sorry for reviving an old thread, I'm thinking of buying a good saute pan, Fissler profi and Demeyere industry are my first choices, any suggestions on those? BTW how is Ikea 365 pans, they look kind like Fissler disc bottom but I have no idea how thick are those.


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## sumis (Sep 28, 2022)

u get what you pay for, but with rapidly diminishing improvements. demeyere or fissler disc bottoms: get the one you fancy. i’ve used fissler fat less than demeyere industry or atlantis; but i certainly don’t have a case against any high quality alternative. i do like the silvinox surface on demeyere pans. 

ikea 365 will work great, but probably not for as long. and it’s not sexy. 

.


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## blokey (Sep 28, 2022)

sumis said:


> u get what you pay for, but with rapidly diminishing improvements. demeyere or fissler disc bottoms: get the one you fancy. i’ve used fissler fat less than demeyere industry or atlantis; but i certainly don’t have a case against any high quality alternative. i do like the silvinox surface on demeyere pans.
> 
> ikea 365 will work great, but probably not for as long. and it’s not sexy.
> 
> .


Thank you, I'm going for the Fissler for now, the Demeyere Atlantis is a lot more expensive here, but their heat distribution seems quite on pair.


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## mengwong (Sep 28, 2022)

Does anybody bond a carbon steel top to a stainless (with Al) bottom? Is that even possible?

Edit: looking into this more I see remarks like



> Carbon steel is a good even conductor of heat. […] Carbon steel would not benefit from an aluminum core.
> 
> Carbon steel and Cast iron cook well enough for their purposes that there is no benefit to trying to add aluminum to them.



but I don't think that's true, based on the FLIR images Kenji posted.



https://www.cheftalk.com/threads/carbon-steel-pan-with-aluminum-disk.87134/


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## blokey (Sep 28, 2022)

mengwong said:


> Does anybody bond a carbon steel top to a stainless (with Al) bottom? Is that even possible?
> 
> Edit: looking into this more I see remarks like
> 
> ...



They do but not as common, probably the market is too niche. But woks with ememaled bottom and cast iron working surface exist for quite long, theres also some aluminum core wok too but not that popular.


https://www.wokshop.com/newstore/product/ironenamel-classic-wok/


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## mengwong (Sep 28, 2022)

Very interesting, thank you. If I could run an induction pan-off between unconventional metals/formats, I would be very tempted to compare that vs a nitrogen-hardened cast iron vs an 18/0 Noni vs a carbon-steel saute pan. Apples vs oranges vs bananas, I know.


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## blokey (Sep 28, 2022)

I got the Fissler saute pan, build like a tank, not as elegant as some others but works great. The base measures more than 1cm from outside, should be pretty even heating.


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## blokey (Sep 28, 2022)

blokey said:


> I got the Fissler saute pan, build like a tank, not as elegant as some others but works great. The base measures more than 1cm from outside, should be pretty even heating.
> View attachment 200844


Damn that handle gets really hot


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## MarcelNL (Sep 29, 2022)

I can vouch for even heating of the Fissler new Profi (the old version too for that matter)


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## ptolemy (Sep 29, 2022)

blokey said:


> I got the Fissler saute pan, build like a tank, not as elegant as some others but works great. The base measures more than 1cm from outside, should be pretty even heating.
> View attachment 200844


to me, that's beautiful


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## MarcelNL (Sep 30, 2022)

as proof, pasta in 4 L of water, mid range induction.
Oh , and no hot handles is a benefit from induction!


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## mengwong (Sep 30, 2022)

When a single-“burner” portable cooktop can be had for like $60–100, what justifies the price difference for a two-burner built-in ($500–1500) or a full-size with five zones ($3,000 on up)? You would think, if they scaled linearly, if there were seven rings it’d still be $700 to $1000 at most.


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## blokey (Sep 30, 2022)

mengwong said:


> When a single-“burner” portable cooktop can be had for like $60–100, what justifies the price difference for a two-burner built-in ($500–1500) or a full-size with five zones ($3,000 on up)? You would think, if they scaled linearly, if there were seven rings it’d still be $700 to $1000 at most.


Wattage, plug in burner are limited to the output of the wall plug, in NA the maxium wattage is around 1800w, but with build in burners they can have dedicated power which greatly increase their powerout put. For induction burners the coil size is also important, for a lot of portables they only have 8inch coils, which will cause very uneven heatings in largers pans, and worse wrap them. Building ins tend to have much larger coil sizes so the heat spread more evenly.


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## Jovidah (Oct 1, 2022)

From my limited usage of induction stoves I'm of the opinion that coil size is what makes or breaks an induction stove. It's likely also what you pay the premium for. Cooking on smaller coils even top tier pans struggle... whereas if the coils are large enough even more mundane pans like carbon steel can work just fine.


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## MarcelNL (Oct 1, 2022)

IMO; coil size and control, the induction stove in the current house is small and has smaller coils (probably fine for someone cooking for 2 using smaller pans) and adjusting power happens in fairly big steps. Features like being able to join two coils etc come at a premium that probably has little to do with manufacturing price....in the end of the day paying a little more pays off for me, how many induction stoves does one buy in a lifetime versus how much use it'll get?


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## Jovidah (Oct 1, 2022)

I never understood why there's functionality to join coils when the coils themselves are tiny, in no way cover the entire zone and there's a giant gap in between them. It's utterly pointless if you ask me.


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## MarcelNL (Oct 1, 2022)

Jovidah said:


> I never understood why there's functionality to join coils when the coils themselves are tiny, in no way cover the entire zone and there's a giant gap in between them. It's utterly pointless if you ask me.


under those conditions joining coils is pointless, but with a well designed coil shape and position it makes sense IMO


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## Jovidah (Oct 1, 2022)

Yeah sure, if it's all filled with coils it's cool. But if there's a 20 cm gap between the coils... In general the zone illustrations are a big fat lie on a lot of the cheaper induction stoves. You think it's a massive zone but in reality the coils often don't even cover half of it.


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## Pertti (Oct 1, 2022)

If I insisted on griddles or the like, I might get a full surface induction like these Miele models. They have many smaller (circular I assume) inductors underneath and the pans can be moved, the heat will follow.






I don't know how well those full surface cooktops would work with round pans though, so if my current cooktop breaks, I would probably look into getting a good quality "regular" model with round, well sized hobs.

The Fissler saute pan is a fantastic choice .


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## MarcelNL (Oct 1, 2022)

I guess I'll find out, te Siemens IQ700 we chose has square fields painted on it, I am not sure how it's built up inside and I do not wish having to find out ;-)


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## Michi (Oct 1, 2022)

I strongly suspect that the coils underneath are not square.


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## tally-ho (Oct 1, 2022)

An illustration for different induction hob configurations for those wondering :
(source)


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## Pertti (Oct 1, 2022)

tally-ho said:


> An illustration for different induction hob configurations for those wondering :
> (source)
> 
> View attachment 201201



The rectangular eh675mv17e looks like it could do well with griddles to me. 

For round pans Im guessing the best might still be the most basic one on the uppermost left, when properly sized for the pan. I must have that type of inductors in my AEG.. I just just wish they were a bit larger. I could sacrifice the fourth tiny hob that I rarely use to get those bigger three. Without a kitchen remodel I'm stuck with a 60cm cooktop..


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## MarcelNL (Oct 1, 2022)

Michi said:


> I strongly suspect that the coils underneath are not square.


agree, that would highly surprise me!


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## mengwong (Oct 2, 2022)

tally-ho said:


> An illustration for different induction hob configurations for those wondering :
> (source)


Thanks for sharing the original paper. For purposes of bluing and seasoning a new pan, I had just been wondering about the very question that the paper answers – what is the ideal rotational offset between the pan and the inductor, to achieve uniform heating.


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