# Anyone can compare Cerax Vs New cerax?



## adam92 (Mar 23, 2021)

I only have the old cerax 1K grit, would like to know how the new cerax performance but couldn't found any information about comparing old vs new. Hope someone can share the feedback. 

I liked the old cerax, besides is the soft stone, It cut very fast & good for single bevel knife. Thinking to get the thickest version 60mm because I sharpen daily. Maybe get one when I visit japan next time.


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## zizirex (Mar 24, 2021)

I think it's just the stand that makes it different.


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## adam92 (Mar 24, 2021)

zizirex said:


> I think it's just the stand that makes it different.


I thought the material will be different.


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## KingShapton (Mar 24, 2021)

adam92 said:


> I thought the material will be different.


That's the big question ... and nobody knows for sure.

Take a look at the Suehiro Debado SNE and Debado MD series, both of which are supposed to be improvements to the stones from Suehiro ... but even here, without trying it yourself, you won't know exactly.


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## big_adventure (Mar 24, 2021)

Suehiro has far too many lines. That is all.


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## adam92 (Mar 24, 2021)

Seems like no one here have both stone, old & new cerax or debado md & SNE. maybe I gonna ask japan vendor when I visit japan.


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## Bart.s (Mar 24, 2021)

I also have the 'old' cerax 1K, love that stone. Can't tell you anything about the new cerax. Perhaps a vendor who sells it will know or sent Suehiro an email. From what I can tell, they are both made from aluminum oxide with a vitrified binder, so I don't think there will be much difference.


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## adam92 (Mar 25, 2021)

Hi guys, I got the email reply from Suehiro. 

Only base different between old & New cerax. I thought they improve the hardness or something else, but they said there's no different between old & new.


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## PappaG (Mar 25, 2021)

I don't know all the different lines, but one major difference is that the old is a soaking stone and several of the new stones are splash and go. My rough recollection is that they are supposed to perform in a similar fashion. This is just anecdotal...not first hand.


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## Bart.s (Mar 25, 2021)

adam92 said:


> Hi guys, I got the email reply from Suehiro.
> 
> Only base different between old & New cerax. I thought they improve the hardness or something else, but they said there's no different between old & new.



No kidding . Suehiro really needs to do something about their naming system. I mean, why don't just call it "Cerax with base"?


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## KingShapton (Mar 25, 2021)

Marketing ****, I hate that!


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## DavidPF (Mar 26, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> Marketing ****, I hate that!


There's always marketing ****. The real question is, if you call the company and ask them something that matters, will they tell the truth. I've encountered situations before in which a product formulation had been changed (and customers could easily prove it) but the company repeatedly insisted - despite evidence, and despite how obvious it was they were lying - that nothing had changed at all.


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## KingShapton (Mar 26, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> The real question is, if you call the company and ask them something that matters, will they tell the truth.


I haven't seen it like that before, but you're right.


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## Michi (Mar 26, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> There's always marketing ****. The real question is, if you call the company and ask them something that matters, will they tell the truth. I've encountered situations before in which a product formulation had been changed (and customers could easily prove it) but the company repeatedly insisted - despite evidence, and despite how obvious it was they were lying - that nothing had changed at all.


Hmmm… So Suehiro decided that selling stones with a base will work better than without a base. After all, that's what the competition is doing.

Employing Occam's razor, what is more likely, that Suerhiro changed the composition of the stone at the same time as adding a base (and then lying about not having changed the composition), or that they just added a base to the same stone they've been making for years?


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## KingShapton (Mar 26, 2021)

Because of this thread I sent an email to suehiro and asked about the differences between the 3 debado series (md, ld and sne) compared to the traditional and cerax series. and according to the differences (apart from the size) between the 3 different debado series. I look forward to the answer ..


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## jwthaparc (Mar 26, 2021)

Wow I got the "new" cerax combo 1k 6k. The 1k was the fastest wearing stone I have ever used. It made my king 1k look like a freaking shapton glass in comparison. I thought, wow the "new" cerax must really suck. Now that I'm hearing that the only difference is the stand, I'm wondering how anyone could like the cerax 1k. 

I mean I love a muddy stone, and don't mind fast wearing to a certain extent. I give the cerax 320 a pass, just because Its good for wide bevels, but that stone wears insanely fast too. Idk I feel like there are better stones that dont have you just washing your money down the drain after one knife.


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## DavidPF (Mar 26, 2021)

Michi said:


> Employing Occam's razor, what is more likely, that Suerhiro changed the composition of the stone at the same time as adding a base (and then lying about not having changed the composition), or that they just added a base to the same stone they've been making for years?


The way I want to apply Occam's razor in this case is I'm going to presume they're telling the truth unless someone demonstrates that they're not. The time I watched other companies in a different business lie about product changes, everyone was shaking their heads the whole time thinking "This is ridiculous - lying won't benefit their brand in the end".


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## KingShapton (Mar 27, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> Because of this thread I sent an email to suehiro and asked about the differences between the 3 debado series (md, ld and sne) compared to the traditional and cerax series. and according to the differences (apart from the size) between the 3 different debado series. I look forward to the answer ..


I have received the answer to my email and I find it very unsatisfactory!

As already explained, I asked about the differences between the new 3 new Debado series MD, LD and SNE and what distinguishes these lines from the Cerax series and the traditional series.

The answer was one sentence: The Devado whetstone has been refined.

Taking Occam's razor into account, the difference, apart from splash & go, the size and, above all, the significantly higher price frankly doesn't seem to be that big ... if at all.

For me the answer is suspicious, for my part I will stick, if at all, with individual stones from the Traditional series and the "normal" Cerax series. A manufacturer who answers specific questions about products very evasively and answers detailed questions with just one sentence is really unsympathetic to me!


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## big_adventure (Mar 27, 2021)

I like my LD-601 but I admit to not having any idea why Suehiro has to have so damn many variants.


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## Michi (Mar 27, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> For me the answer is suspicious, for my part I will stick, if at all, with individual stones from the Traditional series and the "normal" Cerax series. A manufacturer who answers specific questions about products very evasively and answers detailed questions with just one sentence is really unsympathetic to me!


Sure thing. Because Suehiro, likely not being proficient in writing English, probably didn't entirely understand the question, and quite possibly didn't know how to answer, other than to say "we made that one better".



KingShapton said:


> For me the answer is suspicious


Yeah. It's a conspiracy! They are doing it to remove our freedom of sharpening, clearly!


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## KingShapton (Mar 27, 2021)

Michi said:


> Sure thing. Because Suehiro, likely not being proficient in writing English, probably didn't entirely understand the question, and quite possibly didn't know how to answer, other than to say "we made that one better".
> 
> 
> Yeah. It's a conspiracy! They are doing it to remove our freedom of sharpening, clearly!


Not funny! And I never assumed such nonsense. All I have done is a reasonable description of the effect this answer has had on me.

Since it was pointed out several times in this thread that Suehiro willingly provided information on questions about their products, the answer I received is suspect to me. And I stick to it.


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## Kawa (Mar 27, 2021)

I would just send a new mail with very simple short sentences 
or
Send a follow up mail and ask what they mean, since that is what you are after, right?


Finding a strange answer to a mail 'suspicious', as in 'they are clearly bullshitting the costumer' might be too easy


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## KingShapton (Mar 27, 2021)

Kawa said:


> as in 'they are clearly bullshitting the costumer' might be too easy


I never said that. I just draw my conclusions from my impression, that's all.

Besides, my question was phrased simply.


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## Kawa (Mar 27, 2021)

Then, what _do_ you mean by suspect?


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## KingShapton (Mar 27, 2021)

Kawa said:


> Then, what _do_ you mean by suspect?


A shaving forum might be more suitable for quibbling ...


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## Bart.s (Mar 28, 2021)

Doesn't almost every big whetstone manufacturer have several 'lines' of whetstones which are more or less the same stones? Naniwa (chosera/pro/gouken arata) and Shapton (pro/m5/m15/m24, glass/glass7) come to mind. Not to mention vendors who rebrand a stone and call it their own 'line' of stones. 

It gets confusing this way fast, because there will always be people who will swear there is a difference between stone A and stone B .

Anyway, while I really like Suehiro stones, I do think it's a little strange that a company who sells a lot of stones internationally, doesn't have someone at their customer service who has some basic understanding of English. And if not, there is always Google Translate.


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## inferno (Mar 28, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> The answer was one sentence: The Devado whetstone has been refined.



lol. i guess thats it then.


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## inferno (Mar 28, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Wow I got the "new" cerax combo 1k 6k. The 1k was the fastest wearing stone I have ever used. It made my king 1k look like a freaking shapton glass in comparison.



wow is it really that bad?


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