# Teruyasu Fujiwara personnel change?



## lagrangeL2 (Jul 26, 2022)

Hi All, 

I was wondering if TF has changed personnel, and if there has been a resulting change in steel quality or heat treat quality?


----------



## JoBone (Jul 26, 2022)

lagrangeL2 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I was wondering if TF has changed personnel, and if there has been a resulting change in steel quality or heat treat quality?


I don’t believe there was a change in blacksmiths


----------



## superworrier (Jul 26, 2022)

lagrangeL2 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I was wondering if TF has changed personnel, and if there has been a resulting change in steel quality or heat treat quality?


Is there a reason why ?


----------



## lagrangeL2 (Jul 26, 2022)

Just curious.


----------



## superworrier (Jul 27, 2022)

I'll be asking if this question when we don't see any more wabi sabi


----------



## Chicagohawkie (Jul 27, 2022)

All I know is the man bearing its name only cashes checks at this point.


----------



## blokey (Jul 28, 2022)

He just gave less Fs every passing year.


----------



## ynot1985 (Jul 28, 2022)

JoBone said:


> I don’t believe there was a change in blacksmiths


one of the smiths left along with the front of house to start their own brand


----------



## RockyBasel (Jul 28, 2022)

ynot1985 said:


> one of the smiths left along with the front of house to start their own brand


I think Gaku


----------



## ynot1985 (Jul 28, 2022)

RockyBasel said:


> I think Gaku


yep


----------



## Whit3Nitro (Jul 28, 2022)

RockyBasel said:


> I think Gaku



That explains why I’ve not had a response from him. He probably got fed up dealing with all the kkf’ers demands!


----------



## brimmergj (Jul 28, 2022)

Any idea on the brand name or when we might see some product?


----------



## superworrier (Jul 28, 2022)

That is intriguing news. Hopefully they are not pro wabi sabi.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Jul 28, 2022)

brimmergj said:


> Any idea on the brand name?



Isamitsu


----------



## superworrier (Jul 28, 2022)

Is this it? 牛刀 | Gyuto

Definitely TF-ish prices. Same steels. I see a Gaku listed.


----------



## Greasylake (Jul 28, 2022)

安倍勇光打ち刃物 (@isamitsu.knives) • Instagram photos and videos







www.instagram.com





This one?


----------



## superworrier (Jul 28, 2022)

+ 上仕上げ | Custom finish


ご注文の庖丁に手研ぎ仕上げを施すことができます。これによって、より滑らかな切れ味と撥水性を得られます。 ※ この商品だけをご注文いただくことはできません。 Your ordered knife can be fine finished. Therefore, your knife can get an even smoother, sharper edge and better water repellency. * You cannot order only this item.




isamitsu.com





Optional wabi sabi upgrade. I gotta say the handle makes me a little uncomfortable


----------



## SirCutAlot (Jul 28, 2022)

What Mr. WackySabi left the building ? 

SirCutALot


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Jul 28, 2022)

superworrier said:


> That is intriguing news. Hopefully they are not pro wabi sabi.



Word is he's actually leaning into it and offering a line of T-handled knives.


----------



## superworrier (Jul 28, 2022)

Pictured: Something they were never allowed to do at TF


----------



## WellLikedTurtle (Jul 28, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Is this it? 牛刀 | Gyuto
> 
> Definitely TF-ish prices. Same steels. I see a Gaku listed.


Classic 210 to 240 price jump


----------



## superworrier (Jul 28, 2022)

The 240 is a little cheaper than TF. And the 210 is very slightly more expensive.


----------



## DitmasPork (Jul 28, 2022)

I'm somewhat confused about the shipping policy.


----------



## daddy yo yo (Jul 28, 2022)

So, who buys one first and compares it to a TF?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 28, 2022)

Bowered their website and couldn't find any picture of the western handled knife.


----------



## daddy yo yo (Jul 28, 2022)

Can anyone see pics of a Western handled version? Wa looks, uhm, different…


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Jul 28, 2022)




----------



## Corradobrit1 (Jul 28, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> I'm somewhat confused about the shipping policy.
> 
> View attachment 190528


Happy time, Isamitsu style


----------



## daddy yo yo (Jul 28, 2022)

Buying at Isamitsu always has a happy end!


----------



## deltaplex (Jul 28, 2022)




----------



## deltaplex (Jul 28, 2022)

Looks pretty straightforward as far as the tang and bolster go


----------



## tostadas (Jul 28, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> I'm somewhat confused about the shipping policy.
> 
> View attachment 190528



Clearly wanting to show they they are a level above TF:


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Jul 28, 2022)

daddy yo yo said:


> Can anyone see pics of a Western handled version? Wa looks, uhm, different…


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Jul 28, 2022)

deltaplex said:


> Looks pretty straightforward as far as the tang and bolster go


Its got that TF signature


----------



## superworrier (Jul 28, 2022)

Also the ones pictured are the upcharge custom finish (including the handle I believe). I asked on IG what the regular one looks like.


----------



## superworrier (Jul 28, 2022)

What's the polite way to ask if their knives are as ****ed up as TF's....


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Jul 28, 2022)

superworrier said:


> What's the polite way to ask if their knives are as ****ed up as TF's....



On a scale of 1 to 10, with TF being a 9, how much do you embrace the wabi sabi philosophy?


----------



## refcast (Jul 28, 2022)

Takahashi kajiya is 12 on the wabi Sabi scale 1-10. Still good steel though, I prefer to tf white. But yeah wabi Sabi gets more intense than tf with other makers, it's just tf charges a lot more with it still


----------



## deltaplex (Jul 28, 2022)

refcast said:


> Takahashi kajiya is 12 on the wabi Sabi scale 1-10. Still good steel though, I prefer to tf white. But yeah wabi Sabi gets more intense than tf with other makers, it's just tf charges a lot more with it stil


Where does Ikenami fall in these rankings?


----------



## refcast (Jul 28, 2022)

@deltaplex

Depends on which line by ikenami. They specialize in scissors so they can do precision and grinds and ura quite well.

Their double bevel kurouchi stuff is rougher of course . . . but they do stainless clad with a polished finish too

But I've had direct experience with the single bevel deba with polish finish, and it had an overgrind at the heel and the grind was a little thicker at the tip for piercing work I assume, but the level of polish was really good and comparable to good Sakai stuff, but not the very highest level, but near the middle and really nice. Handle centered and straught, and exceptionally, the ura side was flat and straught. So many deba have bent ura. So like 2.5-3/10, not much wabi sabi at all.

I do think straightness and blade grind consistency is very important to knives though. . . Hopefully isamitsu fixes that part of the tf style.


----------



## deltaplex (Jul 28, 2022)

refcast said:


> @deltaplex
> 
> Depends on which line by ikenami. They specialize in scissors so they can do precision and grinds and ura quite well.
> 
> ...


I was asking more about the white steel treatment.


----------



## superworrier (Jul 28, 2022)

If they can do TF steel treatment with a straight spine, no overgrinds, and some consistency in the blade thickness (although I suppose you can ask for your preference), that would be great. I read something about someone with specific requests and Gaku said he would oversee it himself so I wonder if he has more attention to detail.

Handle installs and scuffs are not really a deal breaker for me.


----------



## refcast (Jul 28, 2022)

@deltaplex 

Ikenami white is softer than tf white, is less glassy and aggressive, but emphasizes edge retention and toughness more. It doesn't get quite as sharp as easily but still a really good steel. If you like something between stereotypical blue and white that's how it feels.


----------



## parbaked (Jul 28, 2022)

Anyone know if they’re using pre-laminated steel? 
I didn’t see any mention of forging billets on their site.


----------



## superworrier (Jul 28, 2022)

Ok I asked and he said they aren’t ready yet


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 28, 2022)

Right I also asked them on Instagram and Gaku replied they haven’t finished any western handle knife so no picture to show me. Said might be ready in a few weeks.


----------



## brimmergj (Jul 28, 2022)

According to their info about core material they say, "Unless otherwise specified, our kitchen knives are made of a three-layer structure with stainless steel sandwiches."

I won't hold my breath, but maybe they'll specify an iron sandwich, some time.

That custom finish seems pretty intense, I kind of like it


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Jul 28, 2022)

I guess all jokes aside, the cool, and real, message here is the craft has been passed on and a new maker is demonstrating the courage to strike out on his own.


----------



## Robert Lavacca (Jul 29, 2022)

This makes sense now. I emailed asking about a 210 suji. I’ve dealt with Gaku at TF a couple times. Now someone by the name of Miho emailed me back. Dental work got in the way of this purchase anyways.


----------



## Greenbriel (Jul 29, 2022)

I've been trying to get in touch with Miho at TF about my order for two months. They will not respond to my emails. Not sure what to do at this point.


----------



## superworrier (Jul 29, 2022)

Greenbriel said:


> I've been trying to get in touch with Miho at TF about my order for two months. They will not respond to my emails. Not sure what to do at this point.


Did you try using the portal thing on the website? I've been corresponding via there and they've been responsive. I think there should be a link with your order confirmation.


----------



## Greenbriel (Jul 29, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Did you try using the portal thing on the website? I've been corresponding via there and they've been responsive. I think there should be a link with your order confirmation.


Oh cool! I didn't know about that, thanks a lot!


----------



## Greenbriel (Jul 29, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Did you try using the portal thing on the website? I've been corresponding via there and they've been responsive. I think there should be a link with your order confirmation.


Do you meant this? Japanese Knife Manufacturer TERUYASU FUJIWARA

I can't get it to accept a phone number so it won't submit. Gah!! I'm beyond frustrated. Ordered 3/14 and a friend who ordered after me got his weeks ago.


----------



## superworrier (Jul 29, 2022)

Greenbriel said:


> Do you meant this? Japanese Knife Manufacturer TERUYASU FUJIWARA
> 
> I can't get it to accept a phone number so it won't submit. Gah!! I'm beyond frustrated. Ordered 3/14 and a friend who ordered after me got his weeks ago.


I think there's just a link in my email. Maybe try the login page or something if you can't find it in your email. FWIW, I'm in the same boat. Ordered on march 28, still waiting. I imagine if you have special requests/ they don't have the item in stock it may take longer. Especially since these two left.


----------



## superworrier (Jul 29, 2022)

Also 2 weeks ago they told me my knife is almost ready,


----------



## tostadas (Jul 29, 2022)

Greenbriel said:


> Do you meant this? Japanese Knife Manufacturer TERUYASU FUJIWARA
> 
> I can't get it to accept a phone number so it won't submit. Gah!! I'm beyond frustrated. Ordered 3/14 and a friend who ordered after me got his weeks ago.


Have you tried adding a country code to the number? ie for USA I think something like 01-xxx-xxx-xxxx. Also try without dashes, I think the form just checks for the correct number of characters entered.


----------



## Greenbriel (Jul 29, 2022)

Thanks @tostadas, I tried +1 but didn't try +01. That could well be it. I ended up sending another email and a fax!  I'll give the form another try. Thanks again!


----------



## sansho (Jul 29, 2022)

a fax!! holy cow


----------



## blokey (Jul 29, 2022)

The other option is a pigeon I suppose.


----------



## ragz (Jul 29, 2022)

I can see it already... The Gaku era TF premium. Won't ever be the same now.


----------



## jedy617 (Jul 29, 2022)

Is gaku more or less wabi sabi


----------



## Greenbriel (Jul 29, 2022)

sansho said:


> a fax!! holy cow


Desperate times my friend.


----------



## blokey (Jul 29, 2022)

jedy617 said:


> Is gaku more or less wabi sabi


We really need someone to find that out.


----------



## sansho (Jul 30, 2022)

glad i "got in early". my gaku denka's going to be like a kato in a few years.


----------



## Greenbriel (Aug 1, 2022)

tostadas said:


> Have you tried adding a country code to the number? ie for USA I think something like 01-xxx-xxx-xxxx. Also try without dashes, I think the form just checks for the correct number of characters entered.


You're a genius (unlike their web coders!) The 0 did it (but no spaces or dashes allowed). I don't expect much at this point, but we'll see. Thanks very much for the help @tostadas.


----------



## superworrier (Aug 2, 2022)

Looks familiar


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Aug 2, 2022)

To be honest, if I were to buy this, the first thing I would do is to replace the handle…just for my eyes…

It does look TF enough though.


----------



## MowgFace (Aug 2, 2022)

Subtle finger notch even


----------



## daddy yo yo (Aug 2, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> To be honest, if I were to buy this, the first thing I would do is to replace the handle…just for my eyes…
> 
> It does look TF enough though.


Others specifically asked for a red-handled TF...

I don't like the hammer finish in the pic...


----------



## superworrier (Aug 2, 2022)

With the special finish it's 93000 yen


----------



## superworrier (Aug 2, 2022)

Hmm according to IG they left in March. Maybe explains why TF has been so slow. They also seem to be in a smallish town


----------



## blokey (Aug 2, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Looks familiar



Wa-handle it is then.
His Kiritsukes are interesting, reminds me more of Hakata knives.


----------



## GorillaGrunt (Aug 2, 2022)

oh whoa I can’t believe Mazaki left Mazaki and is now making Mazakis instead of Mazakis! Still look a lot like Mazakis though, I wonder who’s making Mazakis back at Mazaki now.

ok I’m done now honest


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Aug 2, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Hmm according to IG they left in March. Maybe explains why TF has been so slow. They also seem to be in a smallish town


It was several months before that. They are also based near Ibaraki, home of the TF forge.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Aug 2, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> To be honest, if I were to buy this, the first thing I would do is to replace the handle…just for my eyes…
> 
> It does look TF enough though.


The wabi sabi lives on. Can we say Son of Wabi Sabi?


----------



## Greenbriel (Aug 3, 2022)

.


----------



## Greenbriel (Aug 3, 2022)

sansho said:


> a fax!! holy cow


You laugh but THE FAX WORKED! 

It went to a manager. I get the impression he had stern words with Miho and I got my refund. Months of waiting and a series of headaches just to be out $80 in exchange rate fluctuations. Happy days.

I guess I should tell them access to their entire customer email system is being mailed out to customers in an auto reply. If not for them then for the people whose email addresses are being exposed.


----------



## sansho (Aug 3, 2022)

hahaha


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 4, 2022)

I was thinking of ordering one, but too impatient to wait several months. Like the look of them.


----------



## ModRQC (Aug 4, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Looks familiar



I ordered one of the flowers... we'll see.


----------



## superworrier (Aug 4, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> I was thinking of ordering one, but too impatient to wait several months. Like the look of them.
> View attachment 191647


You can just DM them and see if they have any ready


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 4, 2022)

superworrier said:


> You can just DM them and see if they have any ready


Yeah, could, but already got a turned off by wait time stated on their website—so I've moved on. I don't like chasing—lotta other knives out there to be had.


----------



## Naftoor (Aug 5, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> I'm somewhat confused about the shipping policy.
> 
> View attachment 190528




Damnit. Now I have to package knives to survive 30 foot falls AND liquid damage? I give up. Any knife I’m buying has to be sent via a fleet of carrier pigeons who hopefully don’t trim someone’s hedge passing by with an unsteady 270 gyuto.


----------



## silylanjie (Aug 9, 2022)

Thought I'll share my experience chatting with Gaku from Isamitsu through email.

Gaku is very responsive and gets back to me with every question I have. I'm interested on getting the Gyuto Shirogami #1 210mm with Wa handle and he recommended I should consider getting the Custom Finish option for additional ¥5,500 JPY. 

The Custom Finish option will be hand sharpen finish with bench stones and your choice of any handle or colors upon request; basically he said he created this option is to give the customer an opportunity create their personal knife. These finish are the ones that shown in the pics on their site. 

The free Regular finish are just finish was the wheel stone. Here is a sample he shared for this finish




Here are some handle samples with custom option:




The regular handles, he said he will share soon on their site once he gets them.

For the process time it will take a month for knife to be ready, so it's not that bad.


----------



## JASinIL2006 (Aug 10, 2022)

Robert Lavacca said:


> This makes sense now. I emailed asking about a 210 suji. I’ve dealt with Gaku at TF a couple times. Now someone by the name of Miho emailed me back. Dental work got in the way of this purchase anyways.



Miho was who I corresponded with when I bought my Denka. They were very responsive.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Aug 10, 2022)

silylanjie said:


> Thought I'll share my experience chatting with Gaku from Isamitsu through email.
> 
> Gaku is very responsive and gets back to me with every question I have. I'm interested on getting the Gyuto Shirogami #1 210mm with Wa handle and he recommended I should consider getting the Custom Finish option for additional ¥5,500 JPY.
> 
> ...


I think they lowered the price for custom finish? It was like 22000 yen before.


----------



## silylanjie (Aug 10, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think they lowered the price for custom finish? It was like 22000 yen before.


They did, it was lowered to 11000 yen last week and now its 5500 yen.... maybe if wait another month it'll just be free. lol

Starting this week they'll charge around 5000 yen for shipping to US before it free over certain amount.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Aug 10, 2022)

Yea I just placed an order for a 240 AS with western handle and custom finish. The total is 89,720 yen. I guess 77000 + 11000 and free shipping in last week is a little better. Haha. I'll try to see if I can get a black western handle.

Edit: Gaku told me the red western handle is just a prototype and they will use various natural materials to make their handles so black handle is definitely possible.


----------



## superworrier (Aug 12, 2022)

TF fixed the website security issues but it has its own wabi sabi.
When you access a message, it asks you for a code sent to your email. After you fill it in, it does it again. Then when you submit a message...

Glad Gaku could make the effort to have a modern and secure website.





Also they told me my knife is done but it will be another month because they ran out of handles. Ahhhhhh


----------



## blokey (Sep 19, 2022)

Some new post on their page, Yo-handle options in different color.

Btw anyone got their hand on one yet?


----------



## superworrier (Sep 19, 2022)

Yeah those yo handles aren't it.


----------



## Ocanada (Sep 19, 2022)

I put an order in for a 195mm santoku in White #1, and Gaku quoted me a delivery window from late October to early November.

I asked for a black yo handle and he did note that they're still experimenting a bit with the pigment. That said, I don't think the new handles in those pictures look that bad - they just look a bit washed out because of the photo / lighting quality.


----------



## superworrier (Oct 6, 2022)

@silylanjie @Hz_zzzzzz did you either of you receive your knives yet?


----------



## silylanjie (Oct 6, 2022)

superworrier said:


> @silylanjie @Hz_zzzzzz did you either of you receive your knives yet?


@superworrier Not yet, Gaku emailed me 2 weeks ago that there are some delays and ask if I could wait for bit.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Oct 6, 2022)

superworrier said:


> @silylanjie @Hz_zzzzzz did you either of you receive your knives yet?


I received mine in late August. About 4.5 months after I placed the order. I did reach out to them in early August and they agreed that it had been 4 months and they shipped me a knife in a week.


----------



## mmiinngg (Oct 6, 2022)

And how is it ? @Hz_zzzzzz

Would like to try one especially since the last tf price increase...


----------



## superworrier (Oct 6, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I received mine in late August. About 4.5 months after I placed the order. I did reach out to them in early August and they agreed that it had been 4 months and they shipped me a knife in a week.


Sorry, I think I was unclear. I meant the Isamitsu not the TF


----------



## yoyoma (Oct 6, 2022)

Do these guys have a physical store or anything I can walk into? I'll be in Japan next week.


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 6, 2022)

yoyoma said:


> Do these guys have a physical store or anything I can walk into? I'll be in Japan next week.





isamitsu knives - Google Search


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Oct 6, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Sorry, I think I was unclear. I meant the Isamitsu not the TF


Sorry I read it too fast. No I haven’t received it yet.


----------



## yoyoma (Oct 6, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> isamitsu knives - Google Search



Anybody visited before? From google street maps it looks like a residential place, not a storefront.


----------



## Greasylake (Oct 6, 2022)

yoyoma said:


> Anybody visited before? From google street maps it looks like a residential place, not a storefront.


The street view footage is from 8 years ago, so its probably just outdated. On the pictures for their shop profile on Google there is a photo of the outside of the shop with a sign that says isamitsu hamono, which appears to be on the same corner as that house. You may also want to send them an email to confirm location and ask if they are ready to receive visitors, in case they want you to set an appointment.


----------



## silylanjie (Oct 20, 2022)

silylanjie said:


> @superworrier Not yet, Gaku emailed me 2 weeks ago that there are some delays and ask if I could wait for bit.


My order for Gyuto 210mm W#1 from Isamitsu arrived today, very nice work by them.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 20, 2022)

silylanjie said:


> My order for Gyuto 210mm W#1 from Isamitsu arrived today, very nice work by them.


Pics? Where does it sit on the wabi sabi scale?


----------



## miggus (Oct 20, 2022)

Looking forward to your extensive review @silylanjie


----------



## silylanjie (Oct 20, 2022)

The Isamitsu Gyuto 210mm W#1 with the custom option (bench-stone finish + custom handle) is very nice. The custom wa handle is very interesting, it's kinda like a twisted pentagon shape and very comfortable to grip; they gave me 20+ color handle options to choose from and I just pick the most simple one. I didn't notice any wabi sabi, the handle was install straight, no bent blade and grind looks good. 

Edge Length: 216mm
Blade Height (Heel): 52mm
Thickness (Heel): 2.9mm


----------



## miggus (Oct 20, 2022)

Thanks! Looks amazing. I don't know if I would order a Denka again if I see those. Looks like they offer TF steel without the special finish.


----------



## Ocanada (Oct 20, 2022)

Do you have a TF to compare to? Ideally a Maboroshi to compare W1 to W1

My order was unfortunately delayed a couple of months, but it is what it is. I changed to a 180mm nakiri so excited for once it does arrive.


----------



## silylanjie (Oct 20, 2022)

Ocanada said:


> Do you have a TF to compare to? Ideally a Maboroshi to compare W1 to W1
> 
> My order was unfortunately delayed a couple of months, but it is what it is. I changed to a 180mm nakiri so excited for once it does arrive.


I don't have a TF to compare it, I was planning to get the Maboroshi or Denka but changed my mind and got the Isamitsu Gyuto instead.


----------



## Ocanada (Oct 20, 2022)

silylanjie said:


> I don't have a TF to compare it, I was planning to get the Maboroshi or Denka but changed my mind and got the Isamitsu Gyuto instead.


Fair enough. I’ll do my best to compare against my Denka nakiri once I get mine, though obviously not quite comparable between steels

Do let us know how it cuts


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Oct 20, 2022)

I got a picture from Gaku about the western handle AS. Not the final version but a potential choice. I need to wait for a few more weeks.


----------



## superworrier (Oct 20, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I got a picture from Gaku about the western handle AS. Not the final version but a potential choice. I need to wait for a few more weeks.
> 
> View attachment 204102


looks pretty good! I'm tempted to order one but I was thinking about western handle but I'm a bit hesitant without the notch


----------



## JayS20 (Oct 20, 2022)

silylanjie said:


> I didn't notice any wabi sabi, the handle was install straight, no bent blade and grind looks good


NOT MY TF


----------



## tag98 (Oct 20, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I got a picture from Gaku about the western handle AS. Not the final version but a potential choice. I need to wait for a few more weeks.
> 
> View attachment 204102


Ive been eyeing these as an option for a 240 western, if theyre done to a higher level than tf im definetely gonna have to grab one


----------



## superworrier (Oct 20, 2022)

The secret to TF is Rationalization (psychology) - Wikipedia. Don't expect anyone to love these. (only half joking)
"Why did I buy this piece of crap? I actually like crooked blades and overgrinds"


----------



## miggus (Oct 21, 2022)

silylanjie said:


> I was planning to get the Maboroshi or Denka but changed my mind and got the Isamitsu Gyuto instead.


if they play their cards right, then a lot of people might think this way. Good stuff for the customers - TF might have to up their game somewhat, I hope. I checked out their homepage, it' interesting what they (don't write) about steel types / model lines: 


> After many years of working with Shirogami#1, we are able to produce knives that take full advantage of this steel, and manifest the qualities that make it great. We’d recommend this to anyone unsure of which core steel to choose.


And about AS:


> We’d recommend this to anyone looking for long lasting durable edges that don’t need to be sharpened as often, yet are still amazingly sharp.



So they basically recommend white steel to most people. They kept close to TF pricing, meaning AS is way more expensive. In the TF continuum, there is always the implication that only the Denka line receives every bit of knowledge and steel magic that TF has to offer. 

Maybe they're just not great at marketing, but Isamitsu don't claim any kind of superiority to their AS line. I assume t hat AS isn't so much more difficult to process than white, or is it?


----------



## superworrier (Oct 21, 2022)

miggus said:


> if they play their cards right, then a lot of people might think this way. Good stuff for the customers - TF might have to up their game somewhat, I hope. I checked out their homepage, it' interesting what they (don't write) about steel types / model lines:
> 
> And about AS:
> 
> ...


They might just say it’s recommended because it’s much cheaper


----------



## superworrier (Oct 21, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I got a picture from Gaku about the western handle AS. Not the final version but a potential choice. I need to wait for a few more weeks.
> 
> View attachment 204102


Is this a custom finish "choose your own handle" or a choice they're making for the "standard" handle?


----------



## miggus (Oct 21, 2022)

superworrier said:


> They might just say it’s recommended because it’s much cheaper


Is it though? I'm not sure, since knives with an AS core aren't always super expensive. How much more expensive is it to make a given knife with AS instead of W#1?


superworrier said:


> Is this a custom finish "choose your own handle" or a choice they're making for the "standard" handle?


I think these are two different things. But I would also have loved to see a comparison. As I understand it, it's closer to Morihei Hisamoto's fine finish option. This is what it says on the homepage of Isamoto:


> Your ordered knife can be fine finished. Therefore, your knife can get an even smoother, sharper edge and better water repellency.


----------



## superworrier (Oct 21, 2022)

miggus said:


> Is it though? I'm not sure, since knives with an AS core aren't always super expensive. How much more expensive is it to make a given knife with AS instead of W#1?
> 
> I think these are two different things. But I would also have loved to see a comparison. As I understand it, it's closer to Morihei Hisamoto's fine finish option. This is what it says on the homepage of Isamoto:


It looks like things are constantly in flux. Yesterday I saw the option was gone. Earlier he said it was custom handle choice as well.


----------



## superworrier (Oct 21, 2022)

miggus said:


> Is it though? I'm not sure, since knives with an AS core aren't always super expensive. How much more expensive is it to make a given knife with AS instead of W#1?
> 
> I think these are two different things. But I would also have loved to see a comparison. As I understand it, it's closer to Morihei Hisamoto's fine finish option. This is what it says on the homepage of Isamoto:


If they're going to very high hardness they might have a very high break rate during quenching.


----------



## blokey (Oct 21, 2022)

Waiting for the AS review, if they are as good as TF HT and better F&F I'd happy to grab one.


----------



## daddy yo yo (Oct 22, 2022)

blokey said:


> Waiting for the AS review, if they are as good as TF HT *and better F&F* I'd happy to grab one.


It can’t be worse, can it!?


----------



## Jovidah (Oct 22, 2022)

Maybe they'll fire their handleguy? TF proved that woodworking is not for everyone after all...


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 22, 2022)

Jovidah said:


> Maybe they'll fire their handleguy? TF proved that woodworking is not for everyone after all...


Or metalworking


----------



## miggus (Oct 25, 2022)

By the way: I asked Gaku if they do ironclad as well, and if all their knives are KU. His reply was that both iron cladding and other finishes are possible, even though they recommend KU.

Not sure yet if I'll buy a knife from them, but that's certainly nice to have.

Maybe an @Admin would be willing to add "Isamitsu" to the thread title? Then this might be easier to find for people who search for it.


----------



## banjo1071 (Oct 25, 2022)

They offer a 330mm gyuto, how cool is that!


----------



## tostadas (Oct 25, 2022)

banjo1071 said:


> They offer a 330mm gyuto, how cool is that!


Nice but unfortunately still not big enough... got a lot more I need to compensate for


----------



## BillHanna (Oct 25, 2022)

tostadas said:


> Nice but unfortunately still not big enough... got a lot more I need to compensate for


330x330

Where’s my step stool?


----------



## blokey (Oct 25, 2022)

BillHanna said:


> 330x330
> 
> Where’s my step stool?











Baking Steel Original


Original Baking Steel® is Made in the USA & pre-seasoned with our proprietary oil. Throw away your old stone and start making better pizza, breads, & more!




bakingsteel.com


----------



## BillHanna (Oct 25, 2022)

blokey said:


> Baking Steel Original
> 
> 
> Original Baking Steel® is Made in the USA & pre-seasoned with our proprietary oil. Throw away your old stone and start making better pizza, breads, & more!
> ...


Is that my cutting board? Replace my bamboo?


----------



## superworrier (Oct 25, 2022)

Sorry, but at 16lbs, that's a toy, not a knife.


----------



## esoo (Oct 25, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Sorry, but at 16lbs, that's a toy, not a knife.


Great for smashing garlic...


----------



## superworrier (Oct 26, 2022)

Well I pulled the trigger. I asked them about DHL and they told me it was 50000 yen so I passed on that.


----------



## yoyoma (Oct 27, 2022)

I was in their shop in Tokyo two weeks ago and looked at Denkas and Mabaroshis 

They had very few Denkas and no Mabaroshis at 210mm and western handles. They said they have very high internet orders so few knives for sale in person.

The knives I saw had very different grinds, all thick, but some a bit thinner. High variance between knives, like extreme differences. None looked thin enough for me.

Fit and finish was very poor, not at all befitting their newly increased prices. Very rough and thick knives.

With their new prices they seem to be very overpriced.


----------



## Ocanada (Oct 27, 2022)

To contrast that experience a bit, I just received two knives from TF today (a 270mm Denka suji and a 195mm Denka nakiri) and the F&F seems to be better than my Denka 210mm gyuto (which I received June 2022). To be sure, there are still aesthetic flaws (mainly around the handle scales and the tang) but nothing sharp / that would bother me in use.

I had no real issues with my Denka gyuto's F&F (which is my #1 knife) so this was a bit of a nice surprise. Cutting performance on food is TBD, but the OOTB edge was plenty sharp to glide through some printer paper I had handy. Choils looked pretty good too.

Maybe my standards are lower or I got lucky with the smith at TF, but I'm pretty happy for now. I also just happened to order right before they raised prices, which was nice.

EDIT: Clarified that the F&F is _better, _but not perfect by any stretch


----------



## NotAddictedYet (Oct 27, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Well I pulled the trigger. I asked them about DHL and they told me it was 50000 yen so I passed on that.


That's a lot of money..


----------



## blokey (Oct 27, 2022)

What kind of DHL service they are using? Luftwaffe?


----------



## silylanjie (Oct 27, 2022)

When I purchase my Gyuto 210mm from them, I paid 5,020JPY for shipping but it was through Japan Postal and it took 7 days to arrive.


----------



## JASinIL2006 (Oct 27, 2022)

When I purchased my gyuto from TF in Feb. 2022, I paid an extra 8000JPY for DHL shipping.


----------



## superworrier (Oct 27, 2022)

They told me the price was high because their shipping volume is low. Idk, still seems crazy


----------



## miggus (Oct 27, 2022)

What kind of shipping and for how much is the alternative to DHL?


----------



## superworrier (Oct 27, 2022)

Otherwise it's EMS for ~5000 yen. I would pay a bit extra for DHL (like maybe 5000 yen) because they always clear customs fast, tracking is very good, can reschedule delivery, doesn't deliver to the wrong address etc


----------



## miggus (Oct 27, 2022)

I see... 10x as much is a bit steep


----------



## yoyoma (Oct 30, 2022)

I’m in Tokyo now and emailed them about visiting their store just now. I’ll go in person this week and report back with pictures.

Edit: they responded to my email “Currently our workshop is just only workshop, it's not ready to receive visitors. And to be honest, we are very busy now, we can't afford to welcome.”

So I won’t be going, too bad.


----------



## superworrier (Nov 3, 2022)

I got my District improved TF and it's definitely much improved. However, it is a slight hollow which I'm debating whether or not to do more work on stones as I think performance could be improved more but also I have a larger Isamitsu coming eventually. (btw, this is not to say you're better off just doing it yourself... they removed a lot of meat that would probably take a ridiculous amount of time to do on stones)

I am impressed with the TF steel. It seems to want to get sharp. I'm surprised at how little effort it took to get ridiculously sharp. I hope the Isamitsu is like this but with a better OOTB grind


----------



## bearhippo (Nov 4, 2022)

superworrier said:


> I got my District improved TF and it's definitely much improved. However, it is a slight hollow which I'm debating whether or not to do more work on stones as I think performance could be improved more but also I have a larger Isamitsu coming eventually. (btw, this is not to say you're better off just doing it yourself... they removed a lot of meat that would probably take a ridiculous amount of time to do on stones)
> 
> I am impressed with the TF steel. It seems to want to get sharp. I'm surprised at how little effort it took to get ridiculously sharp. I hope the Isamitsu is like this but with a better OOTB grind


+1. I've been on the fence with purchasing something from them since I'm curious how the heat treat is in comparison. Apparently, there's also a wrought iron project that Gaku is working with someone as well although the last time I checked (about a week ago), that was on hold since they're very busy at the moment.

Details:
180mm wa-Nakiri
225mm yo-Gyuto
250mm yo-Gyuto

Wrought iron in either S1 or AS (assume that S1 is referring to White 1), one or the other (or possibly both) but it hasn't been decided yet.

Note: Whandle below is referring to western handle, not wa.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Nov 4, 2022)

bearhippo said:


> +1. I've been on the fence with purchasing something from them since I'm curious how the heat treat is in comparison. Apparently, there's also a wrought iron project that Gaku is working with someone as well although the last time I checked (about a week ago), that was on hold since they're very busy at the moment.
> 
> Details:
> 180mm wa-Nakiri
> ...


Huh, I wonder who sent Gaku-san some wrought iron...the sizing of 225 and 250 feels familiar as well somehow...


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Nov 4, 2022)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Huh, I wonder who sent Gaku-san some wrought iron...the sizing of 225 and 250 feels familiar as well somehow...


I feel a shootout coming on.   at dawn.


----------



## M1k3 (Nov 4, 2022)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Huh, I wonder who sent Gaku-san some wrought iron...the sizing of 225 and 250 feels familiar as well somehow...


You carrot pot stirring carrot tangler you!


----------



## zizirex (Nov 4, 2022)

finally, It leaks huh? the Massdrop edition 5?

Gaku already told me about it a couple of months ago. hopefully, I could get it.


----------



## bearhippo (Nov 5, 2022)

As a long-time lurker (before I signed up obviously), I had my suspicions based on the lengths but was unaware that it was for a future Massdrop from what I’m understanding here.

That being said, apologies for the spoiler @nakiriknaifuwaifu, I actually had the same thoughts and asked Gaku if he could do a wrought iron AS and W1 yo-gyuto when he mentioned that out of the blue .

On the plus side, I guess the community has a lot to be excited for ?


----------



## NotAddictedYet (Nov 5, 2022)

Seriously, now we can have months of tangling? Don't say another word I'M IN IN IN


----------



## JoBone (Nov 5, 2022)

bearhippo said:


> As a long-time lurker (before I signed up obviously), I had my suspicions based on the lengths but was unaware that it was for a future Massdrop from what I’m understanding here.
> 
> That being said, apologies for the spoiler @nakiriknaifuwaifu, I actually had the same thoughts and asked Gaku if he could do a wrought iron AS and W1 yo-gyuto when he mentioned that out of the blue .
> 
> On the plus side, I guess the community has a lot to be excited for ?


Personally, I consider it rather presumptuous to provide those details to this forum before they are made public by the people coordinating it.

I understand that Gaku provided those details to you without an understanding of these forums, but it should be posted by the coordinators.


----------



## Ocanada (Nov 5, 2022)

JoBone said:


> Personally, I consider it rather rude to provide those details before they are made public by the people coordinating it.


On the other hand, I imagine it’s a bit awkward if they’re already going to be preparing a mass order with an uncommon material. Also, we can’t really expect that Gaku knows what KKF is, or that mass drops are done here (correct me if I’m wrong)


----------



## bearhippo (Nov 5, 2022)

JoBone said:


> Personally, I consider it rather presumptuous to provide those details to this forum before they are made public by the people coordinating it.
> 
> I understand that Gaku provided those details to you without an understanding of these forums, but it should be posted by the coordinators.



That’s a valid point and I certainly welcome the discussion as this is a small community after all.

To start, I know of a project that you’re working on from a friend of a friend of a friend, but I haven’t and wouldn’t leak any details because I know that it’s under the wraps. To be fair, I certainly could’ve asked @nakiriknaifuwaifu when my suspicions manifested — and it skipped my mind to do so when I wrote that post — as my only thought at the time was damn… Wrought iron? Denka and/or Maboroshi steel? That’s an absolute banger that the rest of the community would love to hear about. (Again, I also reached out to Gaku to see if he could do a wrought iron AS and W1 custom and that is when he leaked said information to me out of the blue.) 

If it was known to be under the wraps then I would not have said a word out of respect and when I realized my error, I apologized in kind. Hell, if @nakiriknaifuwaifu would like, I’d be happy to work together and scrub all of the leaked details here. It may be too late but if it helps in any way or form then I’d love to help.

It is with that being said that the project — which Gaku disclosed to @zizirex and I to varying degrees — certainly could’ve been started by anyone; perhaps a group of addicts like us in Brazil or a retailer somewhere else. Who knows how many other people Gaku informed of the project, whether they are a part of KKF or not.

I’ll leave it at this as it’s a busy day today for me: would there be a difference in moral ground if a knife fanatic — without knowledge of KKF and Massdrops — made a new account today and posted those same details? (Edit: This question was written in response to a previous edit of your post but I'll keep it here as IMO it's still relevant.)


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Nov 5, 2022)

It's alright guys. I'd have preferred this to stay on the down-low - but no matter. 
It's nice to hear the interest, but let's reapproach this when the time is right and details are clearer.
Thanks,
NKW


----------



## zizirex (Nov 5, 2022)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> It's alright guys. I'd have preferred this to stay on the down-low - but no matter.
> It's nice to hear the interest, but let's reapproach this when the time is right and details are clearer.
> Thanks,
> NKW


Yeah Sorry to leak it, I thought it was Ok since everyone already to mention about iron Clad of his knife.

Still Im looking forward to Get it if it become a reality.


----------



## BillHanna (Nov 5, 2022)

bearhippo said:


> 180mm wa-Nakiri


----------



## Cip75 (Nov 7, 2022)

silylanjie said:


> The Isamitsu Gyuto 210mm W#1 with the custom option (bench-stone finish + custom handle) is very nice. The custom wa handle is very interesting, it's kinda like a twisted pentagon shape and very comfortable to grip; they gave me 20+ color handle options to choose from and I just pick the most simple one. I didn't notice any wabi sabi, the handle was install straight, no bent blade and grind looks good.
> 
> Edge Length: 216mm
> Blade Height (Heel): 52mm
> ...


Maybe the knife deserve a special presentation topic


----------



## bearhippo (Nov 7, 2022)

@BillHanna


----------



## Luxman (Nov 7, 2022)

I've gotten one from isamitsu recently through a friend who did a custom bulk order - super well made, consistent, even and no wabi sabi-ness. Tested it on stones last night and the grind is even and ready for stones ootb. Felt even harder than a denka I have. Plenty of pics of them on my friend's IG. I would say buy with confidence! Is there a isamitsu thread here?


----------



## miggus (Nov 7, 2022)

I believe this is the Isamitsu thread I suggested adding the forge's name this to the thread title.
Sounds great, now I want one again  I really would like an ironclad K gyuto from them


----------



## BillHanna (Nov 7, 2022)

miggus said:


> I believe this is the Isamitsu thread I suggested adding the forge's name this to the thread title.
> Sounds great, now I want one again  I really would like an ironclad K gyuto from them


I want that daggone 180mm nakiri


----------



## Luxman (Nov 7, 2022)

miggus said:


> I believe this is the Isamitsu thread I suggested adding the forge's name this to the thread title.
> Sounds great, now I want one again  I really would like an ironclad K gyuto from them



haha yeah we really should have it say isamitsu. finally took a pic myself, other pics so far were by my friend who arranged for me.


----------



## blokey (Nov 8, 2022)

Luxman said:


> I've gotten one from isamitsu recently through a friend who did a custom bulk order - super well made, consistent, even and no wabi sabi-ness. Tested it on stones last night and the grind is even and ready for stones ootb. Felt even harder than a denka I have. Plenty of pics of them on my friend's IG. I would say buy with confidence! Is there a isamitsu thread here?


So he learned nothing from TF?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Nov 8, 2022)

blokey said:


> So he learned nothing from TF?



Now that's funny.


----------



## lucabrasi (Nov 12, 2022)

How do you order the custom option off the site? I don’t see it anywhere, then again I don’t read Japanese. Very interested in a White 240, but not looking for it rough finished.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 12, 2022)

lucabrasi said:


> How do you order the custom option off the site? I don’t see it anywhere, then again I don’t read Japanese. Very interested in a White 240, but not looking for it rough finished.


Have you emailed them? I'd try that first.


----------



## superworrier (Nov 12, 2022)

Yeah, I've seen that option disappear and reappear on the website.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Nov 12, 2022)

Ok I got my 240 yo handle AS today. The box is nice and sturdy. The finish and design are visually pleasing. Super thin behind the edge. Nice balance (1 inch ahead of heel). Extremely sharp edge out of the box (9.5/10).

However, it is actually much similar to TF than you would thought on the handle part.

242 mm*54 mm.
257 gram.
3.3 mm spine above heel, 2.4 mm in the middle and 1.4 mm at 1 cm from the tip.


----------



## superworrier (Nov 12, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Ok I got my 240 yo handle AS today. The box is nice and sturdy. The finish and design are visually pleasing. Super thin behind the edge. Nice balance (1 inch ahead of heel). Extremely sharp edge out of the box (9.5/10).
> 
> However, it is actually much similar to TF than you would thought on the handle part.
> 
> ...


Looks really good overall! Handle issue is disappointing but still looks overall really nice. I wonder if separation is inevitable with wood and no liner, but it seems like it was probably never flush.


----------



## miggus (Nov 12, 2022)

Very interesting, thanks for the details. Seems to me this is pretty close to a Denka all in all.


superworrier said:


> Looks really good overall! Handle issue is disappointing but still looks overall really nice. I wonder if separation is inevitable with wood and no liner, but it seems like it was probably never flush.


I don't know - other makers are getting those flush, aren't they? And this is still a 600+ USD knife... Seems like they keep in line with some classic TF stuff after all. Their new Wa handles seem pretty good, I wonder why the Yo handles are still funky.


----------



## blokey (Nov 12, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Ok I got my 240 yo handle AS today. The box is nice and sturdy. The finish and design are visually pleasing. Super thin behind the edge. Nice balance (1 inch ahead of heel). Extremely sharp edge out of the box (9.5/10).
> 
> However, it is actually much similar to TF than you would thought on the handle part.
> 
> ...


The blade itself looks good, might order a Wa-Handled one, how do you like the steel so far?


----------



## tostadas (Nov 12, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Ok I got my 240 yo handle AS today. The box is nice and sturdy. The finish and design are visually pleasing. Super thin behind the edge. Nice balance (1 inch ahead of heel). Extremely sharp edge out of the box (9.5/10).
> 
> However, it is actually much similar to TF than you would thought on the handle part.
> 
> ...


How's the profile? Photo at an angle, so it looks probably much steeper than it actually is


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Nov 12, 2022)

tostadas said:


> How's the profile? Photo at an angle, so it looks probably much steeper than it actually is


I posted some additional comparison photos on the new knife thread. The profile is very similar to that of a Denka.

Show your newest knife buy


----------



## tostadas (Nov 12, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I posted some additional comparison photos on the new knife thread. The profile is very similar to that of a Denka.
> 
> Show your newest knife buy


Yea it looks identical. I like the less pronounced finger choil too


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Nov 12, 2022)

blokey said:


> The blade itself looks good, might order a Wa-Handled one, how do you like the steel so far?


Can’t really tell yet but it’s promising. It’s so sharp out of the box that I know I can sharpen this to Denka level sharpness no matter it is as easy or not.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Nov 12, 2022)

I just talked to Gaku on IG and he’s open to the idea of using something like g10 liner for handle installation. So you may eventually get a wabi sabi free version!


----------



## More_Gyutos (Nov 12, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I posted some additional comparison photos on the new knife thread. The profile is very similar to that of a Denka.
> 
> Show your newest knife buy


Is the finger notch a special request? I don’t think I saw it on the website.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Nov 12, 2022)

More_Gyutos said:


> Is the finger notch a special request? I don’t think I saw it on the website.


No it’s not.


----------



## More_Gyutos (Nov 12, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> No it’s not.


I should have been clearer is that specific to the Western handle?


----------



## tag98 (Nov 13, 2022)

tostadas said:


> Yea it looks identical. I like the less pronounced finger choil too


Reminded me of the ones you’ve put in the morihei tfs you’ve done up, im a big fan of it compared to the traditional tf one


----------



## blokey (Nov 13, 2022)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Can’t really tell yet but it’s promising. It’s so sharp out of the box that I know I can sharpen this to Denka level sharpness no matter it is as easy or not.


Sounds very promising, I might get one of their 195mm Santoku (or Nakiri if he does them). Btw is yours their special finish?


----------



## Jovidah (Nov 13, 2022)

So by the looks of it the TF employee that went independent was their handlemaker?
Who knows, that might actually improve TF handles.


----------



## Ocanada (Nov 15, 2022)

I got a shipping notification today but unfortunately am travelling until early next month. Gaku was kind enough to share these pictures with me, which I think look great. Really excited to give it a spin when I get back

The 九一六 engraving on the other side was a custom request


----------



## JASinIL2006 (Nov 16, 2022)

Interesting knives. I have to say, I'm not in love with the Kurosaki-esque hammer patterns, but it would be cool to give one of these knives a trial to see how they compare to TFs.


----------



## blokey (Nov 16, 2022)

Still waiting to hear how their AS compare to TF, their Nakiri is super attractive.


----------



## wind88 (Nov 17, 2022)

blokey said:


> Still waiting to hear how their AS compare to TF, their Nakiri is super attractive.


A friend just received his recently said the steel feels very close to TF denka but the grind is much better (consistent). I'm still waiting for mine to show up. Super excited!


----------



## Luxman (Nov 18, 2022)

wind88 said:


> A friend just received his recently said the steel feels very close to TF denka but the grind is much better (consistent). I'm still waiting for mine to show up. Super excited!


yes, I also have a denka and isamitsu blue super. The isamitsu is very similar and slightly harder, the even grind ootb is a key seller despite still rough fit and finish for the yo handles - maybe order wa? They are essentially stone ready right out of the gate, grind near edge is pretty thin imo - I think they are legit strong competitors.


----------



## parbaked (Nov 18, 2022)

wind88 said:


> A friend just received his recently said the steel feels very close to TF denka but the grind is much better (consistent).


If their knives are forged from pre-laminated billets, the grinds should appear more consistent. 

Much of the TF wabi sabi starts from their process of laminating a thick core steel with stainless cladding. 

IMO it’s not apples to apples comparing the fit and finish if Isamitsu use pre-laminated steel.


----------



## blokey (Nov 18, 2022)

parbaked said:


> If their knives are forged from pre-laminated billets, the grinds should appear more consistent.
> 
> Much of the TF wabi sabi starts from their process of laminating a thick core steel with stainless cladding.
> 
> IMO it’s not apples to apples comparing the fit and finish if Isamitsu use pre-laminated steel.


I asked, the stainless clad is forged from pre laminated plates, but they can do iron clad tho.


----------



## Luxman (Nov 18, 2022)

parbaked said:


> If their knives are forged from pre-laminated billets, the grinds should appear more consistent.
> 
> Much of the TF wabi sabi starts from their process of laminating a thick core steel with stainless cladding.
> 
> IMO it’s not apples to apples comparing the fit and finish if Isamitsu use pre-laminated steel.



prelam billet vs hand lam is more really related to lam line evenness and centering of core steel but not so much actual bevel grinding evenness. Taking extra care and finishing on stones prior to shipping will result in even bevels (i.e. no low or high spots).


----------



## Ocanada (Nov 18, 2022)

All that aside, the knife world is big enough for both Itsamitsu and TF to exist… it doesn’t really need to be one or the other


----------



## blokey (Nov 18, 2022)

Ocanada said:


> All that aside, the knife world is big enough for both Itsamitsu and TF to exist… it doesn’t really need to be one or the other


My wallet is not


----------



## superworrier (Nov 18, 2022)

Ocanada said:


> All that aside, the knife world is big enough for both Itsamitsu and TF to exist… it doesn’t really need to be one or the other


For sure. TF isn't even taking direct orders for Denka 210-240 rn on their website. 
I think it uses a lot of the mysticism being pre-clad, but there's no reason for that to be better performance wise. If the time saved is spent on a more consistent grind, that is a better product for me. Although it makes the high price somewhat weirder, but that may be driven by failure rate more than anything (and because they can)


----------



## superworrier (Nov 18, 2022)

Worth noting that TF made some blue super pre-clad tsuchime nakiri for Morihei, but nothing else so far. I emailed Hitohira and they said they didn't know of any plans for a gyuto.


----------



## miggus (Nov 19, 2022)

Hehe, tried to order from Isamitsu today. Failed at the ordering process which is completely in Japanese


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Nov 19, 2022)

miggus said:


> Hehe, tried to order from Isamitsu today. Failed at the ordering process which is completely in Japanese


Bring it up on Firefox and use the page translator feature. Works great.


----------



## zizirex (Nov 19, 2022)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Bring it up on Firefox and use the page translator feature. Works great.


i think it's a standard feature in Chrome as well. i am not sure about firefox though.


----------



## labor of love (Nov 19, 2022)

miggus said:


> By the way: I asked Gaku if they do ironclad as well, and if all their knives are KU. His reply was that both iron cladding and other finishes are possible, even though they recommend KU.
> 
> Not sure yet if I'll buy a knife from them, but that's certainly nice to have.
> 
> Maybe an @Admin would be willing to add "Isamitsu" to the thread title? Then this might be easier to find for people who search for it.


Iron clad option is a game changer for me. I’d love to scoop up an iron clad wh1


----------



## M1k3 (Nov 19, 2022)

labor of love said:


> Iron clad option is a game changer for me. I’d love to scoop up an iron clad wh1


You could ask TF for about 6 months to make an iron clad Mabaroshi at Denka prices. Not that I know of anyone that would of done such a thing.....


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Nov 20, 2022)

labor of love said:


> Iron clad option is a game changer for me. I’d love to scoop up an iron clad wh1


Mr Jiro has you covered.


----------



## deltaplex (Nov 21, 2022)

labor of love said:


> Iron clad option is a game changer for me. I’d love to scoop up an iron clad wh1


Morihei?


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 21, 2022)

labor of love said:


> Iron clad option is a game changer for me. I’d love to scoop up an iron clad wh1


I thought you'd transitioned to stainless recently—back to carbon?


----------



## BillHanna (Nov 21, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> I thought you'd transitioned to stainless recently—back to carbon?


hacked


----------



## bigbob7777 (Nov 21, 2022)

Ocanada said:


> I got a shipping notification today but unfortunately am travelling until early next month. Gaku was kind enough to share these pictures with me, which I think look great. Really excited to give it a spin when I get back
> 
> The 九一六 engraving on the other side was a custom request


When did you order this? I can’t get the company to answer my status emails from aSeptember 3 order. They told me the knifes would be ready mid November.


----------



## superworrier (Nov 21, 2022)

bigbob7777 said:


> When did you order this? I can’t get the company to answer my status emails from aSeptember 3 order. They told me the knifes would be ready mid November.


Maybe try the contact form on the website?


----------



## bigbob7777 (Nov 21, 2022)

I have - twice!


----------



## Ocanada (Nov 21, 2022)

bigbob7777 said:


> I have - twice!


I put in an order on 30 August and they initially quoted me by the end of October, but then appear to have gotten quite a bit busier and changed the estimate to the end of the year. Then it turns out they actually finished it by mid-November and sent it over


----------



## bigbob7777 (Nov 21, 2022)

Good to know. I just wish I could get them to reply.


----------



## silylanjie (Nov 21, 2022)

bigbob7777 said:


> Good to know. I just wish I could get them to reply.


you could try emailing them directly [email protected]


----------



## bigbob7777 (Nov 21, 2022)

Just tried; we’ll see what happens.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 21, 2022)

I give up. After four months, I still can't understand what is meant by this text the Isamitsu site.


----------



## BillHanna (Nov 21, 2022)

It’s like, all my failures are in the paaaaaaaaast, maaaaan. I got some real doubts about the old me, buuuuut *burp* the past is trying to chase me down. Buuuuut, like, uh, I’m like gonna just shoot it to the future and let my progeny deal with that, man. Not my chair; not my problem. If you think you’re better than me, prove it duuuuuude. I wear the pearls in *THIS HOUSE.*


----------



## Ocanada (Nov 21, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> I give up. After four months, I still can't understand what is meant by this text the Isamitsu site.
> 
> View attachment 209860


The top three lines are just the bottom three lines in Japanese. I'm pretty sure it's just a sentiment about striving for continuous improvement


----------



## labor of love (Nov 21, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> I give up. After four months, I still can't understand what is meant by this text the Isamitsu site.
> 
> View attachment 209860


Work dictates my preference for stainless/carbon usually and right now I’m a good place where I can use whatever without any worry for maintenance. 

Quirky Isamitsu poetry makes me want one even more


----------



## M1k3 (Nov 21, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> I thought you'd transitioned to stainless recently—back to carbon?





labor of love said:


> Work dictates my preference for stainless/carbon usually and right now I’m a good place where I can use whatever without any worry for maintenance.
> 
> Quirky Isamitsu poetry makes me want one even more


You could get the 'Kotte-mai', stainless core, rusty cladding.


----------



## Luxman (Nov 21, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> I give up. After four months, I still can't understand what is meant by this text the Isamitsu site.
> 
> View attachment 209860



Websites are funny sometimes man, I recently came upon some art gallery site in NY that listed 300-500 USD poloroid prints that were like all blurry and stuff. "art" i guess. haha. on a side note, that's some quality photos at least, higher res than our beloved TF mug shot.


----------



## tostadas (Nov 22, 2022)

So when is someone gonna set up a group buy of TF t-shirts?


----------



## esoo (Nov 22, 2022)

tostadas said:


> So when is someone gonna set up a group buy of TF t-shirts?



Calling @nakiriknaifuwaifu for the next massdrop.


----------



## BillHanna (Nov 22, 2022)

I want a polo with TFTFTFTFTF on the upper left


----------



## JASinIL2006 (Nov 22, 2022)

tostadas said:


> So when is someone gonna set up a group buy of TF t-shirts?



They’d probably feel really comfortable, but have one sleeve a bit longer than the other, and the collar would be sewn on unevenly…


----------



## superworrier (Nov 22, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> They’d probably feel really comfortable, but have one sleeve a bit longer than the other, and the collar would be sewn on unevenly…


"Our shirts are clothing, not art pieces"


----------



## JASinIL2006 (Nov 22, 2022)

And I’d probably buy one or two…


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 22, 2022)




----------



## blokey (Nov 22, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> View attachment 210054


Should have printed “Wabi Sabi inside”


----------



## JoBone (Nov 22, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> You could ask TF for about 6 months to make an iron clad Mabaroshi at Denka prices. Not that I know of anyone that would of done such a thing.....



Ironclad Denka before and after Myojin


----------



## superworrier (Nov 22, 2022)

JoBone said:


> Ironclad Denka before and after Myojin


... what


----------



## superworrier (Nov 22, 2022)

That's unreal... the price must be too


----------



## PeterL (Nov 22, 2022)

JoBone said:


> Ironclad Denka before and after Myojin



Hot damn. Can’t imagine what these will cost. Your collabs with TF are always so awesome! What size are they?


----------



## superworrier (Nov 22, 2022)

Honestly I thought this sort of collab would be impossible. Those look so good


----------



## tostadas (Nov 22, 2022)

JoBone said:


> Ironclad Denka before and after Myojin


Wait what


----------



## M1k3 (Nov 22, 2022)

JoBone said:


> Ironclad Denka before and after Myojin


So that's how you skip the TF lottery AND get an iron clad TF?


----------



## labor of love (Nov 22, 2022)

Next mass drop leaked


----------



## tag98 (Nov 22, 2022)

tostadas said:


> So when is someone gonna set up a group buy of TF t-shirts?


Im in for at least 2


----------



## tag98 (Nov 22, 2022)

JoBone said:


> Ironclad Denka before and after Myojin


Oh good another tf I need to buy to appease the collector in me 
Those look unreal and based on how my 240 from the first collab cuts im definetely gonna need to keep my eyes open for those


----------



## wind88 (Nov 23, 2022)

Luxman said:


> Websites are funny sometimes man, I recently came upon some art gallery site in NY that listed 300-500 USD poloroid prints that were like all blurry and stuff. "art" i guess. haha. on a side note, that's some quality photos at least, higher res than our beloved TF mug shot.


You can’t be serious. Wow.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 23, 2022)

blokey said:


> Should have printed “Wabi Sabi inside”


Wabi sabi envy.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 23, 2022)

Sweet handle in this one!


----------



## ModRQC (Nov 23, 2022)

Ocanada said:


> I put in an order on 30 August and they initially quoted me by the end of October, but then appear to have gotten quite a bit busier and changed the estimate to the end of the year. Then it turns out they actually finished it by mid-November and sent it over


Blame KKF!


----------



## NotAddictedYet (Nov 23, 2022)

DitmasPork said:


> View attachment 210054


This I did not imagine in my wildest dreams. Although I think we should have Fujiwara san's faceprint on it?


----------



## ModRQC (Nov 23, 2022)

NotAddictedYet said:


> This I did not imagine in my wildest dreams. Although I think we should have Fujiwara san's faceprint on it?


This I did not imagine in my wildest dreams.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 25, 2022)

Gaku's a nice fella, but for me, the Isamitsu knives don't seem like enough of an upgrade (if any) from TF, to really want one. TBH, I'd sooner buy another denka before an Isamitsu—TF still has my desires, preferring hammered look on my denka over the Yu Kurosaki-esque finish on the Isamitsu; dig the hallmark finger notch too. Of course. purely my personal taste. I do wish them success and quite keen to see them evolve.


----------



## BillHanna (Nov 25, 2022)

Yeah. The finish leaves me a bit cold. Hopefully, that “evolves” over time.


----------



## miggus (Nov 25, 2022)

I know what you mean. I mean, I didn't see them as an upgrade, but as something different and unique. You could see them as an upgrade in less risk of wabi-sabiness - but if you got a good TF, that's not so much of a selling point.

This has left me a bit ambivalent as well. I also thought that maybe Fujiwara-San will find it not so great that they so closely imitate his products. Sure, they probably helped shape them and there is enough demand as it is. But I have also thought that it will be nice to see if they come out with some things that are genuine in-house developments, be it as a product or as a style.


----------



## DitmasPork (Nov 25, 2022)

miggus said:


> I know what you mean. I mean, I didn't see them as an upgrade, but as something different and unique. You could see them as an upgrade in less risk of wabi-sabiness - but if you got a good TF, that's not so much of a selling point.
> 
> This has left me a bit ambivalent as well. I also thought that maybe Fujiwara-San will find it not so great that they so closely imitate his products. Sure, they probably helped shape them and there is enough demand as it is. But I have also thought that it will be nice to see if they come out with some things that are genuine in-house developments, be it as a product or as a style.


Well said.


----------



## superworrier (Nov 25, 2022)

miggus said:


> I know what you mean. I mean, I didn't see them as an upgrade, but as something different and unique. You could see them as an upgrade in less risk of wabi-sabiness - but if you got a good TF, that's not so much of a selling point.
> 
> This has left me a bit ambivalent as well. I also thought that maybe Fujiwara-San will find it not so great that they so closely imitate his products. Sure, they probably helped shape them and there is enough demand as it is. But I have also thought that it will be nice to see if they come out with some things that are genuine in-house developments, be it as a product or as a style.


I don’t really think it’s that close an imitation. Looks have been completely changed, they switched to prelam. And hand finish and pentagonal handle is pretty unique among Japanese makers. I would say they definitely have their own style. Definitely not closer than Wakui vs Yoshikane.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Nov 25, 2022)

miggus said:


> I know what you mean. I mean, I didn't see them as an upgrade, but as something different and unique. You could see them as an upgrade in less risk of wabi-sabiness - but if you got a good TF, that's not so much of a selling point.
> 
> This has left me a bit ambivalent as well. I also thought that maybe Fujiwara-San will find it not so great that they so closely imitate his products. Sure, they probably helped shape them and there is enough demand as it is. But I have also thought that it will be nice to see if they come out with some things that are genuine in-house developments, be it as a product or as a style.


Agreed. I think given how well the Morihei ironclad TF's sell, they could carve out a niche focusing on TF level HT, more distal taper and clad the core in iron..... and fix the wabi sabi lottery. A migaki finish would be huge differentiator too. I'm imagining an Isamitsu Kaiju. We can but dream.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Nov 25, 2022)

superworrier said:


> I don’t really think it’s that close an imitation. Looks have been completely changed, they switched to prelam. And hand finish and pentagonal handle is pretty unique among Japanese makers. I would say they definitely have their own style. Definitely not closer than Wakui vs Yoshikane.


Don't think the funky handle shape adds much to the offering. Ultimately its all about the blade, grind, profile and the HT. Everything else is just aesthetics.


----------



## superworrier (Nov 25, 2022)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Don't think the funky handle shape adds much to the offering. Ultimately its all about the blade, grind, profile and the HT. Everything else is just aesthetics.


There’s no need to change the HT and profile if it’s not broken. Grind is much improved if it’s consistent. The aesthetics is what makes it theirs


----------



## superworrier (Nov 25, 2022)

Honestly I can’t even define what a TF grind is since it’s so inconsistent


----------



## M1k3 (Nov 25, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Honestly I can’t even define what a TF grind is since it’s so inconsistent


I call it the "Alphabet grind".


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Nov 25, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Honestly I can’t even define what a TF grind is since it’s so inconsistent



Expensive.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Nov 26, 2022)

esoo said:


> Calling @nakiriknaifuwaifu for the next massdrop.


hmm
ok bet
would be an unironically fun stocking stuffer type of thing
let's see when I have a spare moment


----------



## superworrier (Nov 26, 2022)

Any volunteers for a model?


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Nov 26, 2022)

superworrier said:


> Any volunteers for a model?


I'm really handsome so I don't think it would be fair representation for me to be the model
To relate to the ugly line cooks and fat home chefs, I select @ethompson - he satisfies both criteria


----------



## ethompson (Nov 26, 2022)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> I'm really handsome so I don't think it would be fair representation for me to be the model
> To relate to the ugly line cooks and fat home chefs, I select @ethompson - he satisfies both criteria


He. He. He.

I have to admit a boudoir photoshoot is the oddest request I’ve gotten on KKF! But we don’t kink shame here and we gotta give @nakiriknaifuwaifu what he wants…


----------



## superworrier (Nov 26, 2022)

The entry requirements for the mass drops are getting intense


----------



## Gooi (Dec 9, 2022)

Hey folks,

I stumbled upon this thread because I'm looking for a new high. I may buy more knives in the future but I want to find the upper limit of sharpness this time around.

I like the looks of the K tip 240mm. I have reached out to Gaku and expressed my interest.

Do you think it would be Ill advised to ask him for the sharpest knife he can make, or just let him do his thing and trust the reputation he has as a blacksmith?


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Dec 9, 2022)

Gooi said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I stumbled upon this thread because I'm looking for a new high. I may buy more knives in the future but I want to find the upper limit of sharpness this time around.
> 
> ...


yea "sharpest knife he can make" is a pretty meaningless statement just let the smith do his thing
may be japanese culture or something but i don't think he'd appreciate the request
not like he'd say oh man i wasn't planning on making him a sharp knife but now that he requested it i guess i must try to make it sharp or something


----------



## Gooi (Dec 9, 2022)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> yea "sharpest knife he can make" is a pretty meaningless statement just let the smith do his thing
> may be japanese culture or something but i don't think he'd appreciate the request
> not like he'd say oh man i wasn't planning on making him a sharp knife but now that he requested it i guess i must try to make it sharp or something


Yes 
I appreciate that may be rude. I just want as extreme cutter(hard geometry etc) as practical, at the expense of durability. Am I even looking at the right knife then?


----------



## M1k3 (Dec 9, 2022)

Gooi said:


> Yes
> I appreciate that may be rude. I just want as extreme cutter(hard geometry etc) as practical, at the expense of durability. Am I even looking at the right knife then?


Look towards your sharpening routine.


----------



## Delat (Dec 10, 2022)

Gooi said:


> Yes
> I appreciate that may be rude. I just want as extreme cutter(hard geometry etc) as practical, at the expense of durability. Am I even looking at the right knife then?



“Sharp” means something completely different from “extreme cutter”. “Sharp” just refers to the edge on the knife, and anyone who views knives as a hobby should be able to sharpen their own knives at least as sharp as any maker, in many cases probably sharper.

What makes a knife an “extreme cutter” is the geometry, or the way the knife face is ground. It sounds like you’re looking for a knife that’s extremely thin behind the edge, possibly what’s referred to as a “laser” - a knife which is both thin behind the edge and thin at the spine.

I’d suggest filling out the questionnaire and making a new post asking about recommendations for an “extreme cutter” in your price range. You’ll probably get much more meaningful responses that way.

And as @M1k3 implies, if your knives aren’t sharp you should probably start there instead of with a new knife. The sharpening sub-forum can help you out if that’s the case.


----------



## Infrared (Dec 10, 2022)

Gooi said:


> Yes
> I appreciate that may be rude. I just want as extreme cutter(hard geometry etc) as practical, at the expense of durability. Am I even looking at the right knife then?


If I'm understanding you correctly, you want a knife that is very hard and very thin.

In that case I'd suggest an Unshu Yukimitsu knife. Best white steel I've used and plenty thin.









Unshu Yukimitsu Hamono Kurouchi Gyuto 200mm


Free worldwide shipping. Hand-forged gyuto from Unshu Yukimitsu Hamono and Knife Japan. Visit to see our extensive selection of handcrafted Japanese knives.




knifejapan.com





Just contact KnifeJapan directly if you want a 240mm version.


----------



## M1k3 (Dec 10, 2022)

On another note, try a Takamura Chromax. Super sharp and fragile zero edge on a thin laser knife with a pretty good grind for what it is.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Dec 10, 2022)

Gooi said:


> Do you think it would be Ill advised to ask him for the sharpest knife he can make, or just let him do his thing and trust the reputation he has as a blacksmith?


And fyi, Yhuki is the formal blacksmith at Isamitsu. I'm sure Gaku knows his way round a furnace but Yhuki is the one with the experience.


----------



## Gooi (Dec 10, 2022)

Delat said:


> “Sharp” means something completely different from “extreme cutter”. “Sharp” just refers to the edge on the knife, and anyone who views knives as a hobby should be able to sharpen their own knives at least as sharp as any maker, in many cases probably sharper.
> 
> What makes a knife an “extreme cutter” is the geometry, or the way the knife face is ground. It sounds like you’re looking for a knife that’s extremely thin behind the edge, possibly what’s referred to as a “laser” - a knife which is both thin behind the edge and thin at the spine.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gooi (Dec 10, 2022)

Delat said:


> “Sharp” means something completely different from “extreme cutter”. “Sharp” just refers to the edge on the knife, and anyone who views knives as a hobby should be able to sharpen their own knives at least as sharp as any maker, in many cases probably sharper.
> 
> What makes a knife an “extreme cutter” is the geometry, or the way the knife face is ground. It sounds like you’re looking for a knife that’s extremely thin behind the edge, possibly what’s referred to as a “laser” - a knife which is both thin behind the edge and thin at the spine.
> 
> ...


Thanks Delat for your detailed response.
I realise there is a whole lot of nuance here. There is a whole forum of it. I do not wish to trigger with such an obtuse word as sharp. I do think however that in the context of this thread that we have some pretty fussy enthusiasts looking for an extremely impressive knife. If I could add some personal context I've got about 10 Japanese knives and some of them are yoshikane takamura and DOI. I wish to buy one more knife with sharpness as priority. From the on I'm a stamp collector


----------



## Gooi (Dec 10, 2022)

Corradobrit1 said:


> And fyi, Yhuki is the formal blacksmith at Isamitsu. I'm sure Gaku knows his way round a furnace but Yhuki is the one with the experience.


Thanks mate and good to know. Was he the one at the furnace and hammer for TF?


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Dec 10, 2022)

If you request one that is ground thin behind the edge it will be sharp. Keeping it sharp is a whole other story. Get a couple of low grit/mid grit synthetics and a nice Jnat finisher and you are set for hair shaving performance. It starts with the HT and ends on the stones.

First and foremost don't overthink it.


----------



## Gooi (Dec 10, 2022)

Corradobrit1 said:


> If you request one that is ground thin behind the edge it will be sharp. Keeping it sharp is a whole other story. Get a couple of low grit/mid grit synthetics and a nice Jnat finisher and you are set for hair shaving performance. It starts with the HT and ends on the stones.
> 
> First and foremost don't overthink it.


Thanks mate. I got all the stones.
I have never bought a knife before where you may communicate with the shop before production. I welcome all points of view from the kkf community. It's not a cheap knife and it seems there is equally a lot of interest caution.


----------



## Cip75 (Jan 5, 2023)

Finally


----------



## Gooi (Monday at 11:47 PM)

Cip75 said:


> Finally


So how is it?
Did you pay for the finishing service?


----------



## Cip75 (Tuesday at 3:25 AM)

Gooi said:


> So how is it?
> Did you pay for the finishing service?


I didn't pay for finishing, the knife cuts astonishing.


----------



## superworrier (Tuesday at 3:31 AM)

I have a 240mm AS hand finished gyuto and a 150mm W#1 petty non hand finished coming in the next week so it will be a somewhat interesting comparison


----------



## wcothran (Wednesday at 5:05 PM)

@superworrier how long did it take between order and shipping?


----------



## superworrier (Wednesday at 5:12 PM)

Ordered late October. Was probably ready late December but I asked them to hold the shipping since I was out of town. So approx 2 months.


----------



## superworrier (Yesterday at 9:04 PM)

Came in.

It still has wabi sabi for sure but no “wabisabi”.

Handle has no gaps but looks a little messy. Wood desperately needs oil. Classic TF red on the KU. But the grind to my eye looks really good, even on the non custom finish, so it’s more or less what I wanted. A lot better than the TF I got but by no means perfect, but this is the level of wabisabi I think is somewhat acceptable (i.e. rustic but not ****).

Wish I had a chance to switch the gyuto to non hammered because those look pretty nice, but the order was more or less done by the time I asked.


----------



## superworrier (Yesterday at 9:07 PM)

Here is the wheel finished petty btw


----------



## More_Gyutos (Yesterday at 9:11 PM)

Grind looks pretty good!? Looking forward to hearing more.

BTW, what’s up with the TF red brown KU? Is that concerning?


----------

