# JNat polishing issues - advice welcome



## falkon (Aug 22, 2020)

Since I got a new Hakka stone, I'm trying my hand at polishing an Itinomonn Cleaver. After the first try, well.. the result leaves a lot to be desired.

See below for pictures. Progression is 220 grit sandpaper on CZAR sandpaper holder for flattening bevel (apparently I missed quite a few spots). Followed by 1000/6000 Gesshin combo, then Hakka.


----------



## falkon (Aug 22, 2020)

Post Hakka


----------



## falkon (Aug 22, 2020)

Post gesshin 6000 (other side)


----------



## falkon (Aug 22, 2020)

Took some better photos. 
6k



Hakka


----------



## falkon (Aug 23, 2020)

OK after 3 more hours it's a little better.
After 220 grit sandpaper. Flattened the low spots. I marked the low spots again so I could double check that they're gone after 1k. 





After gesshin 1000. Low spots are gone. Splotchiness appears





After gesshin 6000. I realized afterwards that the Hakka is faster and remove 1k scratches so I didn't need to do this. Even more splotchiness.





After Hakka, there's still a lot of splotchiness. How do you get rid of that? Also, all this polishing screwed up my KU. I regret not taping it off.


----------



## DHunter86 (Aug 23, 2020)

From my limited experience, might be an issue with pressure control and stroke length. Try using lighter pressure and shorter strokes to blend out the kasumi. 

Another thing to pay attention to would be the thickness of the mud. I don't own a Hakka stone, but have had similar problems with my Jnats and the Chosera 3k.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 23, 2020)

^^^^^
+Also try moving the knife parallel with the edge. Instead of holding it at a 45 or whatever degree you're using with the stone.


----------



## Robert Lavacca (Aug 23, 2020)

All about pressure control and learning from the stone you’re using. Don’t get me wrong. When it comes to Jnats and polishing i’m not expert myself. I’m realizing that it’s just about when to ease up on the pressure, learning how to work the mud, and water control. Kasumi looks easy. You think in your mind that if you have done your duties of flattening and getting rid of all your scratches from previous stones, you can just throw it on a natural, sharpen the bevel and magic will happen. I found out it’s more difficult than that


----------



## falkon (Aug 23, 2020)

Robert Lavacca said:


> You think in your mind that if you have done your duties of flattening and getting rid of all your scratches from previous stones, you can just throw it on a natural, sharpen the bevel and magic will happen. I found out it’s more difficult than that



I guess I'm learning the same thing.


----------



## Matt Zilliox (Aug 23, 2020)

My only hakka stone is gummy feeling with a bit of a learning curve to get good results. Use plenty of water and not too much pressure and see what happens


----------



## falkon (Aug 23, 2020)

Alright at this point I'm getting pretty frustrated. Here is the result after doing very light strokes parallel to the edge.


----------



## falkon (Aug 23, 2020)

I spent another hour working on the other side. I went to the 1k again (this time JNS). Then straight to the hakka. Again light short stokes.


----------



## falkon (Aug 23, 2020)

Maybe I should just start back at the beginning.
1.) is 1k stone able to remove scratches from 220 grit sandpaper? It appeared so when I was first working on it but now I'm not sure.
2.) is 6k stone able to remove scratches form 1k? If so how long does it take? I gave it about 100 strokes.
3.) is the Hakka able to remove scratches from 1k? Maybe I shouldn't have skipped the 6k this 2nd time. I know this is a tough question to answer because every Jnat is different.
4.) is it possible that this Hakka stone is prone to leaving swirls/spotchiness like I'm showing? Do I need a different stone?


----------



## JDC (Aug 23, 2020)

I won’t jump from 1k to 6k or Hakka, It takes time to remove the scratch even on my 2-4K jns synth aoto


----------



## Unstoppabo (Aug 23, 2020)

You also have to control water/mud control and once you're happy with results off the stone, collect mud on a felt pad/cotton/paper towel and rub to even out the finish. If set up well, no need for fingerstones. I haven't used a hakka before but the based on what i've read here, it sounds like a muddy stone and one of the better ones for getting an even finish. FYI, harder stones usually produce more streaky finishes and it's one of the reasons they are not recommended for beginners.


----------



## falkon (Aug 24, 2020)

JDC said:


> I won’t jump from 1k to 6k or Hakka, It takes time to remove the scratch even on my 2-4K jns synth aoto



In that case, it sounds like I need a 2k or 3k stone? What would you recommend for a splash and go? Shapton glass?


----------



## Alder26 (Aug 24, 2020)

Looks like the stone might be a little gummy/grabby, which is causing a bit of faceting.Try starting with a very small amount of water, and work the stone with moderate pressure. Only add enough water to keep the slurry moving and the stone cutting, after a few minutes you should start getting a stickier, thicker mud. You can also hit the stone with an diamond plate to build up some mud which should help get your mud consistency nice. 

I find this is helpful with grabby stones


----------



## falkon (Aug 24, 2020)

Thanks a lot. It is a muddy, grabby stone. Both the Hakka and the Gesshin 6K. 

I guess what you're saying is to let the mud build up with very little water so it doesn't get grabby?


----------



## Alder26 (Aug 24, 2020)

Building a thicker slightly sticky mud helps to create a better buffer between the knife and the surface of the stone. That should help with the faceting, and keep the polishing process smoother. If it keeps happening I would suggest getting a very hard mid-low grit stone like a Shapton Glass 500 or a King deluxe 300 to help remove any irregularities in the surface of your bevel, as well as bridge the gap from 220 to 1k


----------



## JDC (Aug 24, 2020)

falkon said:


> In that case, it sounds like I need a 2k or 3k stone? What would you recommend for a splash and go? Shapton glass?


Should I add another stone I'll go at most 2k, might need another stone between 2k and hakka if not the synth aoto. The synth aoto does a good job removing 1k scratches, just not as fast as I'd like it to be.


----------



## TB_London (Aug 24, 2020)

Take some of the slurry from your natural stone and dab the end of a wine cork in it. Then use the cork to go over the bevel like you would with a finger stone.

The give in the cork will help blend it together. Keep the slurry on the drier side and add more as it stops cutting.

Getting even kasumi off the stone on a cleaver isn’t easy


----------



## Carl Kotte (Aug 24, 2020)

I have shared this one before, but I’ll do it again. Not because it achieves the best kasumi I’ve seen, but because it describes the technique pretty well (imo) and it shows a technique that gives us mere mortals pretty good results. It’s from CleanCut 


I started working on a deba yesterday. After making the bevel flat and relatively even on a sp1000 I started removing the scratches. Then I took it to a 2k stone and raised some slurry. Here’s what it looked like. Not great but ok.



In general, I seem to get good results only when things start looking somewhat good early on in the progression. If the finish looks spotty, uneven and very streaky early on (say around 800-2k) chances are I won’t be able to improve it later on on a higher grit.


----------



## Matt Zilliox (Aug 24, 2020)

Just practice more. Nobody gets it straight away.


----------



## falkon (Aug 24, 2020)

Alder26 said:


> Building a thicker slightly sticky mud helps to create a better buffer between the knife and the surface of the stone. That should help with the faceting, and keep the polishing process smoother. If it keeps happening I would suggest getting a very hard mid-low grit stone like a Shapton Glass 500 or a King deluxe 300 to help remove any irregularities in the surface of your bevel, as well as bridge the gap from 220 to 1k


Thanks a lot for this. I gave it another go today. Definitely smoother. Minimal grabbing. I'll post pictures later. It looks better. Enough that I can tell that I have a whole lot of scratches that I didn't remove from either the 220 or 1k.




JDC said:


> Should I add another stone I'll go at most 2k, might need another stone between 2k and hakka if not the synth aoto. The synth aoto does a good job removing 1k scratches, just not as fast as I'd like it to be.





Carl Kotte said:


> In general, I seem to get good results only when things start looking somewhat good early on in the progression. If the finish looks spotty, uneven and very streaky early on (say around 800-2k) chances are I won’t be able to improve it later on on a higher grit.



You guys are definitely right. I need some intermediate stones. I can definitely see scratches underneath the Hakka finish now. The places that have finish darker on the Hakka. I will get a 2k shapton and perhaps the 500 too.


----------



## Carl Kotte (Aug 25, 2020)

I like the King hyper 2k. It’s very kasumi friendly. I finished the deba above on a pretty hard aiiwatani and a bit of uchi fingerstones.


----------



## falkon (Aug 26, 2020)

Ended up picking up a 500 shapton glass and 2k shapton traditional/pro. Hopefully that round out the progression. I'm hoping my hakka doesn't have any issues polishing off the 2k scratches.


----------



## JDC (Aug 26, 2020)

falkon said:


> Ended up picking up a 500 shapton glass and 2k shapton traditional/pro. Hopefully that round out the progression. I'm hoping my hakka doesn't have any issues polishing off the 2k scratches.



I feel Hakka starts at 5-6k, so might take some time to polish 2k out, but meanwhile that lets you enjoy more of the nice feedback lol


----------



## falkon (Aug 26, 2020)

now you're making me regret it haha. We'll see how it goes. I like to think I have a decent amount of patience. I just spent 2 hours last night flattening 3 very dished stones with 120 grit sandpaper.

If things are still too slow on the Hakka, maybe I'll get a Aoto (synth or natural) to bridge the gap.


----------



## Unstoppabo (Aug 27, 2020)

Rika is great at setting up for jnats and super cheap too!


----------



## naader (Sep 4, 2020)

falkon said:


> now you're making me regret it haha. We'll see how it goes. I like to think I have a decent amount of patience. I just spent 2 hours last night flattening 3 very dished stones with 120 grit sandpaper.
> 
> If things are still too slow on the Hakka, maybe I'll get a Aoto (synth or natural) to bridge the gap.


So as I see it, your issue is one of not properly erasing scratches along your progression. The pics where you used the hakka parallel to the edge not only had angled scratches but visible scratches perpendicular to the edge from what I assume was sanding too. When you move up a stone, make sure you erase every single scratch from the previous one. A way to check is by changing the direction of the next stones scratch pattern, similar to crosshatch polishing, to show the lower grit scratches. You will never have a nice finish if you can still see the effects of the previous stones.


----------



## ian (Sep 4, 2020)

I’m not a great polisher, but if your problem is splotchiness (rather than left over scratches, which people seem to be talking about a lot) I’d worry less about getting an intermediate stone and more about making sure the geometry of the bevel is _perfect_. SG 500 probably will help with that, or so I hear, since it’s a hard stone that won’t cover up low spots. Try to get to the point where you get a really consistent scratch pattern with little pressure, and where you don’t have to spend extra time on low spots to get the finish uniform. Gotta set the geometry if you expect to get any sort of aesthetic finish straight off bench stones. If you don’t want to do that, you can fix the splotchiness a bit with stone mud on a softer backing, fingerstones, or even just some metal polish.

Again, I’m not a great polisher.

Btw, when it comes to polishing, 100 strokes is like what you do to warm up your elbow a bit so you don’t get injured from the actual job.


----------



## falkon (Sep 4, 2020)

Understood Ian. I think what you're saying makes a LOT of sense. I think the splotchiness/patchiness is mostly faceting and a few low spots. So I started all the way back at the beginning. 80grit>120grit>220grit>DMT coarse>SG 500>JNS 1k>Shapton pro 2k>aizu>Hakka/Ohira Uchi. This completely fixed the scratch issue. 

I got 1 side to be as flat as possible. The other side still isn't extremely flat. This is really really hard with a 220mm 600g+ cleaver. The weight, size, and bevel angle makes it very very difficult to hold steady. The faceting has improved. However, it's still not even close to what I'd call "good". I feel like the requirement for a very flat bevel can't be that strict. How does one get a flat bevel on a 300mm+ Takobiki or worse a sword? Maybe the only way to get rid of the faceting is either a super thick slurry with low pressure or finger stones? Can some expert polishers comment?


----------



## falkon (Sep 4, 2020)

See above post. Another 10+ hours of polishing later this is the best I could do.

**** side:









"flat" side:


----------



## nutmeg (Sep 5, 2020)

Falkon,

I think you should work on each step as if it were the grit you're finishing on.
Try to get nice scratch pattern at every single step. That way, even if micro scratches remain, the scratches will look harmonious.
It's not the slurry or the pressure it is how your hands are going back and forth. The closer you can mimic a machine, the better.
Actually you _can_ use very high pressure, it will give a good control on the geometry. On coarse stones, you have to be totally focused on every single stroke and watch/control the blade often.
IMO mastering the low grits is the most difficult because it is all about skills. At very fine grits, it is more about the stones themselves and patience.

Generally, 220 perpendicular to the cutting edge, 1k almost parallel and then totally parallel.

If you'd go back to 1k and high pressure at first, you should end with a good surface.

Also, a totally flat surface is no warranty of a good cutting edge.


----------



## ian (Sep 5, 2020)

falkon said:


> Understood Ian. I think what you're saying makes a LOT of sense. I think the splotchiness/patchiness is mostly faceting and a few low spots. So I started all the way back at the beginning. 80grit>120grit>220grit>DMT coarse>SG 500>JNS 1k>Shapton pro 2k>aizu>Hakka/Ohira Uchi. This completely fixed the scratch issue.
> 
> I got 1 side to be as flat as possible. The other side still isn't extremely flat. This is really really hard with a 220mm 600g+ cleaver. The weight, size, and bevel angle makes it very very difficult to hold steady. The faceting has improved. However, it's still not even close to what I'd call "good". I feel like the requirement for a very flat bevel can't be that strict. How does one get a flat bevel on a 300mm+ Takobiki or worse a sword? Maybe the only way to get rid of the faceting is either a super thick slurry with low pressure or finger stones? Can some expert polishers comment?



‘Perfect’ doesn’t necessarily mean flat. A convex bevel can have perfect geometry. I think the distinction is that you want the curvature (if present) to be distributed more smoothly and evenly over the knife. You don’t want small low spots, or facets. Especially with low-medium grit stones, once you get the geometry mostly correct it’s then important to not focus on one spot for too long at once and risk creating some local curvature/flatness that doesn’t follow the rest of the geometry, but rather to go back and forth over the whole blade road. Maybe others will think differently though.


----------



## nutmeg (Sep 5, 2020)

ian said:


> ‘Perfect’ doesn’t necessarily mean flat. A convex bevel can have perfect geometry.


----------



## ian (Sep 5, 2020)

nutmeg said:


> Actually you _can_ use very high pressure



Sometimes I worry about the knife bending slightly under high pressure, thus creating more of a (very subtle) low spot. Is this nonsense?


----------



## nutmeg (Sep 5, 2020)

No matter how much experience, "we can fix it at the later stage" is the trap we always jump into.


----------



## nutmeg (Sep 5, 2020)

ian said:


> Sometimes I worry about the knife bending slightly under high pressure, thus creating more of a (very subtle) low spot. Is this nonsense?


Some people do so, other do so..
I like trying to mimic a robot and my muscle memory is a bit more steady when I use high pressure and have this feeling of control.


----------



## nutmeg (Sep 5, 2020)

Naturally, high pressure and 500 grit on kasumi means one has to check the blade after almost every single stroke.
On honyaki, an aggressive 500 is less "dangerous".

Sharpening and polishing is all about common sense. And with the tools we have, we can all imagine clearly how everything should be done, the result after each grit, the end-result etc.. The tricky part is to get the right moves.


----------



## Hanmak17 (Sep 6, 2020)

A cheap fix: Use a felt furniture pad (like you put under chair legs) > wet the pad>rub pad on stone to collect swarf>rub pad on swarf covered blade similar to using a finger stone (manage your water, you want less water then you would use with stone, as pad will retain the water, you want a muddy pad) > rub polished area until the streakiness is removed.
As you work with the knife over time you will remove low spots and be able to get a more uniform finish without the pads.


----------



## falkon (Sep 7, 2020)

Thank you all for your advice!
So.. Latest report:
I started with the bad side at 1k. I think I got the scratch pattern consistent except for the top 1/5. I don't really know what to do about that section. It's essentially on a second bevel. It's a different color and I can't figure out exactly what is happening. It looks like a low spot in the photos, but if I sharpie it and thin on the 2nd bevel, the sharpie is erased pretty evenly. Since this already took about an hour, I will hope for the best and see what it looks like after 2k. If it is streaky then I will go back to 500 and flatten to the same bevel as the bottom 4/5s.













OK by the time I got done my stone was already super dished. I was already scratching the KU with the high spots on the stone. So for the other side, the "good side", I started at 500 shapton glass (which was flat).





As I said, I didn't want to use the 1k anymore since it was so dished and eating my KU. Here's the shot of the "good side" after 15 minutes on shapton glass 500:





So this side is not too bad. There is a low spot close to the choil (left side of pic) and a low spot almost at the tip (right side of pic). I think maybe another 30 min should get the bevel perfectly flat.


----------



## falkon (Sep 7, 2020)

Woke up super early this morning to work on it again. Spent about 20 minutes on the "good side" with the SG 500. Erased the low spot at the choil. I think it's going to take a LOT more work (maybe another hour) on the low spot near the tip. Should I go down to the DMT coarse? Or should I keep going on the glass? Or should I just leave it be and polish on the 2nd bevel for my next steps?

I welcome any comments.


----------



## JDC (Sep 7, 2020)

Good job! You can tape done some of the kurouchi part to prevent unwanted scratches. 
I finished flattening my hitohira togashi kiritsuke gyuto yesterday and did a kasumi progression:









Diamond plates -> Shapton Pro 1000 -> JNS Synth Red Aoto -> Hakka

The trick for the rather even finish is Hakka mud + the back of water proof sand paper. Learnt from AFramesTokyo, really works, easier than fingerstones.


----------



## falkon (Sep 7, 2020)

Hanmak17 said:


> A cheap fix: Use a felt furniture pad (like you put under chair legs) > wet the pad>rub pad on stone to collect swarf>rub pad on swarf covered blade similar to using a finger stone (manage your water, you want less water then you would use with stone, as pad will retain the water, you want a muddy pad) > rub polished area until the streakiness is removed.
> As you work with the knife over time you will remove low spots and be able to get a more uniform finish without the pads.




This is a GREAT idea. But no idea if it is "sanctioned" by the "purists". I've actually tried picking up slurry with a finger and rubbing it like a fingerstone and it actually made a difference. I wonder if one could use an auto polisher and create slurry using 2 koppas and polish that way. (I do a lot of car detailing).


----------



## falkon (Sep 7, 2020)

JDC said:


> Good job! You can tape done some of the kurouchi part to prevent unwanted scratches.
> I finished flattening my hitohira togashi kiritsuke gyuto yesterday and did a kasumi progression:
> 
> Diamond plates -> Shapton Pro 1000 -> JNS Synth Red Aoto -> Hakka
> ...



Thanks! What type of tape do you use? I've tried purple painters tape but it has a residue when wet and starts creating these nasty cast offs when polished. Electrical tape seems to be more abrasion resistant but causes really bad residue.

Great idea on the Hakka mud. I will give it a try. Do you mount the sandpaper backing or do you just use your finger? And how big is the piece? Like fingerstone size?


----------



## JDC (Sep 7, 2020)

falkon said:


> Thanks! What type of tape do you use? I've tried purple painters tape but it has a residue when wet and starts creating these nasty cast offs when polished. Electrical tape seems to be more abrasion resistant but causes really bad residue.
> 
> Great idea on the Hakka mud. I will give it a try. Do you mount the sandpaper backing or do you just use your finger? And how big is the piece? Like fingerstone size?



I use gorilla duck tape, it's very sticky. Also produces nasty residues, but I split the tape and only tape down the area near the spine, so it won't hit the stone at all. For sandpapers, I just fold them to hid the abrasives, a small fingerstone sized patch would do. No need to mount on the finger as you can pinch one of the folded side. For a clear line you can again use tape to cover where you don't want the finish, and use its edge as a guide for the "finger paper".


----------



## falkon (Sep 7, 2020)

To rethink my auto polisher idea, I think the smallest they make is still way to big (3 inches). Although you can put 1 inch buffer pads on, it's still too big.

What I should try is this:


Amazon.com



With a buffer pad attached:


Robot Check



What I really need to do is contact those youtube video people that make the tiny furniture or models. See how they sand and buff.


----------



## ian (Sep 7, 2020)

falkon said:


> Thank you all for your advice!
> So.. Latest report:
> I started with the bad side at 1k. I think I got the scratch pattern consistent except for the top 1/5. I don't really know what to do about that section. It's essentially on a second bevel. It's a different color and I can't figure out exactly what is happening. It looks like a low spot in the photos, but if I sharpie it and thin on the 2nd bevel, the sharpie is erased pretty evenly. Since this already took about an hour, I will hope for the best and see what it looks like after 2k. If it is streaky then I will go back to 500 and flatten to the same bevel as the bottom 4/5s.
> View attachment 93664
> ...



Ack! My word of advice is to never let your stone get nearly that dished if you’re going for an aesthetic finish, especially on a flat bevel. Not only will it scratch the KU as you’ve seen, it will make it harder to get perfect geometry on the bevel. I’m flattening every few minutes while setting the geometry of a bevel, depending on the stone.


----------



## JDC (Sep 7, 2020)

ian said:


> Ack! My word of advice is to never let your stone get nearly that dished if you’re going for an aesthetic finish, especially on a flat bevel. Not only will it scratch the KU as you’ve seen, it will make it harder to get perfect geometry on the bevel. I’m flattening every few minutes while setting the geometry of a bevel, depending on the stone.


I second this, but on the other hand, some japanese polishers use convex stones, probably for some special techniques.


----------



## ian (Sep 7, 2020)

JDC said:


> I second this, but on the other hand, some japanese polishers use convex stones, probably for some special techniques.



Yea, but convex isn’t the same as concave. Convex is ok since the stone will then only contact your knife right under your fingers, but with concave you can’t even use the middle of the stone unless you have extremely convex bevels.

The best time to use convex stones is when you have a convex bevel, in which case a flat stone would also contact the bevel along a line or point, instead of a flat, so there’s no real advantage in speed to the flatness. In this case, convexity in the stone helps prevent faceting, and keeps you from having to flatten all the time to keep the dreaded concavity away.


----------



## Hanmak17 (Sep 7, 2020)

JDC said:


> I second this, but on the other hand, some japanese polishers use convex stones, probably for some special techniques.



They do, but I believe the polishing process is radically different. The blade is nearly perpendicular to the stone and the polisher is using select areas of the stone surface.

Probably better videos out there but note the varying convexity/concavity of the stones + how he is using different strokes and different areas of stone through the progression.


----------



## falkon (Sep 7, 2020)

I've gotten some conflicting feedback on the concave stones. We'll see how convex that side is when I move on to 2k grit.
Note that I started with a flat stone so this dishing was due to 1 session.


----------



## ian (Sep 7, 2020)

falkon said:


> I've gotten some conflicting feedback on the concave stones.



Did someone really say a dished stone is good? Must have missed that.

A dished stone is not going to give you a nice convex bevel, btw, since you'd have to be always moving the knife in a very specific path to create any sort of convexity.


----------



## Unstoppabo (Sep 8, 2020)

falkon said:


> Thank you all for your advice!
> So.. Latest report:
> I started with the bad side at 1k. I think I got the scratch pattern consistent except for the top 1/5. I don't really know what to do about that section. It's essentially on a second bevel. It's a different color and I can't figure out exactly what is happening. It looks like a low spot in the photos, but if I sharpie it and thin on the 2nd bevel, the sharpie is erased pretty evenly. Since this already took about an hour, I will hope for the best and see what it looks like after 2k. If it is streaky then I will go back to 500 and flatten to the same bevel as the bottom 4/5s.
> View attachment 93664
> ...



Wow, I thought the JNS 1000 dished pretty slow... It isn't a very fast cutter and not really coarse enough for any serious thinning though so definitely go with something coarser. Try to use the sides of the stone and rotate to use the stone more evenly. Maybe try easing up on the pressure too.


----------



## McMan (Sep 8, 2020)

falkon said:


> I've gotten some conflicting feedback on the concave stones. We'll see how convex that side is when I move on to 2k grit.
> Note that I started with a flat stone so this dishing was due to 1 session.


I'm wondering if some you might be causing some of the problems you are then trying to solve...

Here's my thinking on what to concentrate on... which is basically just adding @ian and @Unstoppabo points.
--Start with flat stones and keep them that way
--Use lighter pressure (the dished 1000 would seem to point to too-heavy pressure).
--Be cognizant of angle (a lot of the scratches on the KU are fairly high up--too acute of an angle will take contact away from where you want it on the wide bevel).

This said, no one is going to mistake me for a pro polisher, but this is where I would start--so consider my points as two cents more than gospel.


----------



## Matt Zilliox (Sep 8, 2020)

Im shocked a stone can dish like that so soon. You have to flatten them. I think you need to slow down.


----------



## Rangen (Sep 9, 2020)

JDC said:


> I use gorilla duck tape, it's very sticky. Also produces nasty residues, but I split the tape and only tape down the area near the spine, so it won't hit the stone at all. For sandpapers, I just fold them to hid the abrasives, a small fingerstone sized patch would do. No need to mount on the finger as you can pinch one of the folded side. For a clear line you can again use tape to cover where you don't want the finish, and use its edge as a guide for the "finger paper".



Gaffers tape is great stuff for something like this. It's like duct tape, except you can remove it easily.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Sep 10, 2020)

someone shoot me a message when this man's knife turns into a nakiri


----------



## falkon (Sep 12, 2020)

So I kept working on the low spot for another 30 min. I got most of it, I think. The 500 sg is now dished so I will flatten that before going any further.


----------



## falkon (Sep 12, 2020)

Now I've started both sides on the Sharpton 2k. I went about 15 min on each side. Both sides look like ****. The 2k is now dished. Should I go back to the 500 or flatten and keep going on the 2k?


----------



## TB_London (Sep 12, 2020)

I’ll repeat my earlier advice which is a version of the felt pad and piece of paper, but from experience easier and better. Use some slurry on a wine cork and blend it and call it done. You really are chasing your tail at this point going up and down the grits and heavily dishing stones. 

Remember that after using the knife it’ll need sharpening and the polish retouching, so the longer you own it and the more you use it the more you sharpen it. I haven’t heard anything on using the knife and whether all this work is improving performance or not. 

Wine cork, slurry, even polish and then use it


----------



## falkon (Sep 12, 2020)

I like it.. after about 20 hrs, I'm about to throw in the towel anyway.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Sep 12, 2020)

If it's a flat bevel, have you considered just sliding a nagura up and down a bevel? 



5:20 On this video shows this on a gyuto.


----------



## falkon (Sep 12, 2020)

Let me try the faux fingerstone method first. Then I'll try this.


----------



## Robert Lavacca (Sep 14, 2020)

If that’s the shapton pro 2k, that one can be fussy man. I use it sometimes in a kasumi progression. I actually prefer the shapton glass 2k sometimes. It’s not the easiest stone to use for polishing purposes in that grit range in my experience. It’s not extremely difficult but not a walk in the park. I usually just start with some slurry from the atoma. You really have to control the water and mud because that shapton 2k will be a streaking disaster if you don’t.


----------



## falkon (Sep 14, 2020)

Robert Lavacca said:


> If that’s the shapton pro 2k, that one can be fussy man. I use it sometimes in a kasumi progression. I actually prefer the shapton glass 2k sometimes. It’s not the easiest stone to use for polishing purposes in that grit range in my experience. It’s not extremely difficult but not a walk in the park. I usually just start with some slurry from the atoma. You really have to control the water and mud because that shapton 2k will be a streaking disaster if you don’t.



Thanks a lot for reinforcing my learnings! I've had the same experience with the shapton pro 2k. It just streaks a lot. How do you control the mud? Do you want it to be thicker? Medium? Very thin? I've found that if I use very thin mud, there's lots of faceting. If very thick mud, I get these shiny streaky parts where the mud accumulated. Maybe I need thick mud but distribute it with fingers every now and then? Also, is it even necessary to get rid of the streaking? In my past efforts, if I just move onto the aizu, the faceting/streaking all goes away. I've had cases where it really streaky after 2k but fine after the Aizu.


----------



## JDC (Sep 14, 2020)

falkon said:


> Thanks a lot for reinforcing my learnings! I've had the same experience with the shapton pro 2k. It just streaks a lot. How do you control the mud? Do you want it to be thicker? Medium? Very thin? I've found that if I use very thin mud, there's lots of faceting. If very thick mud, I get these shiny streaky parts where the mud accumulated. Maybe I need thick mud but distribute it with fingers every now and then? Also, is it even necessary to get rid of the streaking? In my past efforts, if I just move onto the aizu, the faceting/streaking all goes away. I've had cases where it really streaky after 2k but fine after the Aizu.


Working on lower grits are much more important than on finer. I'd suggest go back to a good quality 140~220 grit diamond stone to make the bevel reallllly even. My experiences with shapton pro 2000 were quite different than yours. I had mostly even bevels and the sp 2000 following sp 1000 were always enjoyable. Fast and no streaking.


----------



## valgard (Sep 14, 2020)

I don't have the time to read three pages but from gleaning pictures your main issue is the grinding.
Work on the low grits is the key, and keeping your stones *flat at all times* too, don't be going at it on a stone for 30min before you flatten again, especially on stones 1k or lower. Unless you're a complete master at using the whole surface evenly.


----------



## valgard (Sep 14, 2020)

Uneven wear on stones will cause them to unevenly grind your knife too (along with uneven pressure and usage).


----------



## Robert Lavacca (Sep 14, 2020)

Whatever you do just listen valgard. He’s way better than I am haha. As far as that shapton pro goes, try to not have that mud get too thick or too thin. And as valgard said, I keep my stones flat at all times. If you have other options, I would just ditch the shapton 2k until you become more comfortable polishing. I don’t think a huge problem would come from the streaking as far as moving on goes. The most important thing I think is just making sure your scratches from the previous grit are gone. Sometimes the first few minutes I spend on the next stone I won’t even worry about polishing. I’ll run that bevel along the stone with a little more water than normal just to make sure i’m getting rid of all scratches from the previous stone. When I’m confident I have, I’ll then slurry the stone up again and polish away.


----------



## M1k3 (Sep 14, 2020)

Like lighten up man ✌


----------



## Hanmak17 (Sep 15, 2020)

Robert Lavacca said:


> Whatever you do just listen valgard.



+1


----------

