# Why I do what I do.



## sachem allison (Feb 19, 2012)

One of the Reasons I started this thread was because several of the cooks over the years that I have given vintage knives too have complained that I gave them an old rusty p.o.s. knife and that I had no respect for them as cooks or human beings. Other cooks totally understood what I was telling them and the true value of the gift that I gave them. They cherished them and brought them back to life and when the time came they asked me to help them find similar pieces, so that they could give them to their apprentices and cooks. Am I crazy in wanting to bring quality and tradition back into the kitchen?
My Master chef gave me a piece of **** paring knife that I dearly love and I haven't found anything sharper or more comfortable. He was given his first working knife by one of Escoffier's apprentices, who also gave him a bandoleer butcher belt similar to Colin's that belonged to Escoffier himself. Colin, himself carries on the tradition by giving me (a complete stranger), the butcher belt he made for himself. Travis carries on the tradition , by asking me to find a vintage Sabatier for a friend. Randy carries on the tradition by sneaking a little something extra into a order. I personally know that some of you on this forum carry on that tradition as most of the knives I sold were bought to give to your cooks or to touch memories of long ago.
I posted a thread yesterday that really started a little debate. The oldest Sabatier in the world thread. In this thread I challenged you guys to find a way to bring back to life a sorely abused, but deeply loved Sabatier. I gave you free reign to do as you saw fit. Many of you guys felt that the knife had earned a well deserved retirement and was best left alone. I received quite a few personal emails telling me that it was unacceptable to mess with history and that I should be ashamed of myself. Passion can be an interesting thing. 
On the other side I received a few Pm's asking if they could restore it, not just so they could have it, but so they could actually use it or give it to a new cook or an old timer who would appreciate it. Some just wanted to do it, so that they could experience the craftsmanship that went into making it in the first place. And many thanked me for wanting to bring a forgotten thing back to life.
I understand both sides of the argument and am in no way offended by the passion that both sides have on the subject. This was and is a necessary debate. There will always be people who love and want to preserve history and those who want to move forward. Myself, I prefer living history. preserving the good traditions and qualities of the past by passing them on to be used by the present and future generations. I want this debate and there will be times where I side with one side and then another. 
This is a great forum and I respect the members here and their opinions and passions. With that said, I will be having the pieces listed brought back to life. I have many pieces that I will keep as is for future generations to decide what they want to do. Right here and now, I feel that the pieces will be in good hands. They will be with folks who will coax out what life remains and light a little fire that will grow. I ask that you pass on these traditions to the younger generations as many of them seem to be lacking in guidance and care. Smack them upside the head once in awhile. I firmly believe we don't beat our kids enough.lol

I am going to be posting more of these challenges as the days go by and hope that you guys, accept them in the spirit they were intended. 
Have a great day. Son


----------



## chuck239 (Feb 19, 2012)

Son,

This is really cool. I have personally passed on 2 of my japanese knives to my kitchen employees. They both cherish them and use them every day. I really like the idea of using something older and bringing it back to life then passing it on. I hope these all work out well and end up in good hands.

-Chuck


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 19, 2012)

Here is the next challenge. it is simple gently restore this beautiful slicer. This is one of my favorite knives. I love the feel and texture of the handle. the copper birds eyes rivets, The ancient British Oak handle and the gorgeous lines of the 12 in blade. It is a masterpiece of the knife makers art. The knife was made on the late 1800's probably 1880's by the Gregory Bros cutlery company. They moved to the Bee hive works in Sheffield , England I do believe in the 1870's or 80's. They have been in business since the 1820's. they were bought out by Fenton in 1968 and became Gregory Fenton something. Like most acquisitions quality suffered and most of what they make is **** now, When this was made Sheffield was at the peak of their game and were world renowned for the quality of their blades and steel. This is something you won't see. It is rare, both in quality and quantity, It very well may have been made for a top hotel or country estate. It is quintessentially British in design, as is evident by the bird's head handle. for some reason higher end British Blades always had saber shaped handles . The handle I have been told was made from old ,now non-existent British Oak. It has a character that I have never seen or felt. It is magnificent. It has handmade patinated copper bird's eye rivets, not corby bolts. The blade is beautifully proportioned from virgin carbon steel and hand forged by a master smith. It is a 12 in razor. There is a gradual distal taper both in the blade and the tang. It balances just forward of the bolster. Did I mention how magnificent this knife is. It need a very gentle restoration. it is perfectly useable and beautiful now, but if you want to use it professionally, which I would, it needs some tlc.
So, same deal as the Sabatier if you are willing to take on this project, provide a wip and let us know what you did or are doing with this knife, I will give it to you. I need to pass on these things, as I have so many projects that I can never get them done. Have fun. son


----------



## Deckhand (Feb 19, 2012)

"Many of you guys felt that the knife had earned a well deserved retirement and was best left alone. I received quite a few personal emails telling me that it was unacceptable to mess with history and that I should be ashamed of myself. Passion can be an interesting thing. " Sachem Allison

Damn I knew there were differences of opinion on that thread, but never expected it got that heated. Pm's saying you should be ashamed. Ridiculous. I get people have differences of opinion but that is too far. I for one consider you a friend. I believe you go out of your way to be helpful and to make the world a better place and I appreciate you. I am very grateful for all the help and kindness of others on this forum and found it to be a Shangrila for food,cooking, knives, etc. There is a core group of very helpful and kind people on this forum and you are one of them.


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 19, 2012)

Thank you,
But it is okay, I really understand how passionate people can be, look how passionate you are about the above subject. I listen and I take into consideration what was said and if it is a valid point, I may lean that way, if not there is no harm in letting someone express their opinion. I can honestly say that it was none of the members that posted and that I am glad that the comments were done privately, as I do not want to have the same situation that occurred on other posts happen here. Let's agree to disagree and move on. I want this to be a fun project, so lets keep it that way. Drama free zone.lol


----------



## Candlejack (Feb 19, 2012)

With every post i respect you more Son. You really are an interesting person.


I love that slicer, it's really beautiful. I love old knives with history. I'm not sure i would be able to restore anything though, so i'll sit in awe waiting for others to do it and watch their results.


But if you have any old piece you might be thinking of selling, i am really interested. They are beautiful and all that history just does it for me. It's something i just must have.


----------



## Salty dog (Feb 19, 2012)

I missed the point on that thread because I only looked at the pictures. 

I have gathered several vintage knives from several makers, including Sabatier. (I think I have three in different quality) 
I sharpened one up yesterday and it was completely useable. (Someone really messed up the tip though.)

The one one the left below is a vintage Dexter Russel. It was a 14 inch chef's knife with a HUGE bow in the edge. It's now going to be a slicer or suji. The one on the right is it's sister knife but only 12 inches. It's almost unused. Both are vintage American 1095.


----------



## Lefty (Feb 19, 2012)

Son, if I had the talent, i'd be all over this challenge. That slicer is beautiful, and I think we look at things in about the same light. 
I'm really glad you're a member here, as the whole forum has benefited from your joining.


----------



## WildBoar (Feb 19, 2012)

Son, this is a very cool thing you are doing. I wish I had the skills and knowledge to take on one of these projects. I really look forward to seeing what some of the members here can do for these knives.


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 19, 2012)

Salty dog said:


> I missed the point on that thread because I only looked at the pictures.
> 
> I have gathered several vintage knives from several makers, including Sabatier. (I think I have three in different quality)
> I sharpened one up yesterday and it was completely useable. (Someone really messed up the tip though.)
> ...


huge fan of vintage dexter, a highly under rated knife maker. nice pieces Salty, let me know how they turn out.


----------



## heirkb (Feb 19, 2012)

I wish you posted this in the summer where I have access to a garage with a buffer, sanding supplies, and other tools. Great offer, Son!


----------



## HHH Knives (Feb 19, 2012)

Son, I applause you on your way of thinking and way of life. And would be honored to take this one on if no one has already stepped up! I have never held or used a old knife like this. and will make great use it.. Pm me or call me and we can talk about it more. 

God Bless
Randy


----------



## ajhuff (Feb 19, 2012)

Love that knife Son. Not sure what needs to be done to it other than sharpen it and use it! And a little Scotchbrite maybe! I love your sentiments. I hope you have a few people who step up to your challenges.

Thanks for what you do!

-AJ


----------



## Benuser (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm not familiar with the Sheffield profile, but as far I can see the knife got more wear at the heel then near the tip. Has it to do with some slicing technique?


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 19, 2012)

HHH Knives said:


> Son, I applause you on your way of thinking and way of life. And would be honored to take this one on if no one has already stepped up! I have never held or used a old knife like this. and will make great use it.. Pm me or call me and we can talk about it more.
> 
> God Bless
> Randy


Randy, Thanks.
It is actually going to another member, Chuck239. He is going to give it a go and see what he can do. I will be putting up others in the coming months and we will see what happens. I'll pm you if I put up one that I think will suit your personality. haha! Good luck Chuck!


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 19, 2012)

Benuser said:


> I'm not familiar with the Sheffield profile, but as far I can see the knife got more wear at the heel then near the tip. Has it to do with some slicing technique?



It has to do with the previous owners poor sharpening technique, He hit the heel and edge with a belt sander and it gave it a divot, I straightened it out on the stones, but it has a little dip on the heel. It doesn't effect performance though.


----------



## skewed (Feb 19, 2012)

I love what you are doing! I will watch for more vintage projects from you and looking forward to WIP.

Cheers,
rj


----------



## NO ChoP! (Feb 19, 2012)

I, for one, am simply appreciative that you have shared not just your passion for these awesome vintage knives, but a bit of yourself too. It's funny how through our posts and interactions, one can paint a picture of who that person is. I think it's obvious you've had tremendous life experiences, which have taught you to appreciate not just the quality of craftsmanship, but of life as well. Keep up the great posts, and thanks for sharing a bit of your history with us!


----------



## RRLOVER (Feb 19, 2012)

Great posts Son! I love the old stuff.I hope you get to do what you want to do...... I feel Why you do what you do is nobody's BIZZNESS but your own.Keep the cool stuff coming.


----------



## kalaeb (Feb 19, 2012)

On the edge of my seat waiting for some wips. Thanks Son.


----------



## Burl Source (Feb 19, 2012)

kalaeb said:


> On the edge of my seat waiting for some wips. Thanks Son.



I am thinking the same thing.
It is fun to watch old treasures being brought back to life.


----------



## Candlejack (Feb 19, 2012)

RRLOVER said:


> Great posts Son! I love the old stuff.I hope you get to do what you want to do...... I feel Why you do what you do is nobody's BIZZNESS but your own.Keep the cool stuff coming.




I think it's something great for him to share it. I really appreciate what he shares, it paints a picture of him which i am very fond of. And you see how much he's experienced. It's really interesting. 

I would love a Son-biography. Or just a collection of noteworthy stories.


----------



## Eamon Burke (Feb 19, 2012)

I would love to restore any of them. It's one of my favorite things to do.

I don't believe in retiring objects--retirement isn't for doing nothing, it's for doing something else with your life. I am not a sentimental person, but it's crazy to me to let a knife with great qualities that hasn't been worn down to a nub sit around.


----------



## RRLOVER (Feb 19, 2012)

Candlejack said:


> I think it's something great for him to share it. I really appreciate what he shares, it paints a picture of him which i am very fond of. And you see how much he's experienced. It's really interesting.
> 
> I would love a Son-biography. Or just a collection of noteworthy stories.



You read my post all wrong! If he wants to rehab an old knife he should be supported not judged.I think this place(and the rest of the world) need more people with a full personality's like Son.


----------



## Candlejack (Feb 19, 2012)

RRLOVER said:


> You read my post all wrong! If he wants to rehab an old knife he should be supported not judged.I think this place(and the rest of the world) need more people with a full personality's like Son.



Oh, good. I got it completely wrong!


Yes, Son seems like a wonderfull person with a great history to tell. I would love to hear it.


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks, guys. I actually live a fairly boring life these days, but when I was younger I crammed as much life as I could into it. I wish I still could, but sometimes life gets in the way.My family never really knew and still don't know much about the life I have led or the things I have done once I left home. My father would understand as we are in alot of ways the same person. My mother would never understand, because she never got her adventures. I forgot, so many things after the stroke, but the things I do remember are incredibly vivid and fresh in my mind. I'm missing the better part of ten years or so, apparently the not so good Son years.lol Sometimes I think I would love to have them back and most times I know better. I have days when things come into focus from those days and I cringe at who and what I was. I have a lot of atonement I need to take care of and that is as far as I can go on that particular subject.


----------



## Candlejack (Feb 20, 2012)

sachem allison said:


> Thanks, guys. I actually live a fairly boring life these days, but when I was younger I crammed as much life as I could into it. I wish I still could, but sometimes life gets in the way.My family never really knew and still don't know much about the life I have led or the things I have done once I left home. My father would understand as we are in alot of ways the same person. My mother would never understand, because she never got her adventures. I forgot, so many things after the stroke, but the things I do remember are incredibly vivid and fresh in my mind. I'm missing the better part of ten years or so, apparently the not so good Son years.lol Sometimes I think I would love to have them back and most times I know better. I have days when things come into focus from those days and I cringe at who and what I was. I have a lot of atonement I need to take care of and that is as far as I can go on that particular subject.




Is there any stories you could tell? Either here or in a PM, i'm actually really interested in what's happened to you. You're intriguing. 
The more the merrier i might add!


----------



## jmforge (Feb 20, 2012)

As it appears that you have no interest in selling these prized knives to the "collector" market, I don't see any problem at all with restoring them to a usable condition. That is one thing that I like about you kitchen knife knuts. You will buy a very nice knife and actually USE it in the kitchen. Egads!!!!!:biggrin:


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 21, 2012)

well, here is another one. Same deal as above. This one is one of the very first vintage chef knives I ever got. I was wandering around Phoenix looking for work. I had a job interview at a small French brasserie and I had some time to kill before it started. In the same shopping center was a giant antiques mall, so I figured what the heck, I would see what I could find. At that time I was into collecting antique native American artworks and crafts. I also was looking for an antique cast iron dutch oven. I wandered around for about an hour when I found a booth filled with cast iron skillets and dutch ovens, as I was looking at one particular rusty specimen with a 
$15 price tag with the lid and the rack by the way, 10 qts. to boot and old French man came in he was about 75-80 years old and he was caring a box full of cast iron skillets. I jumped over to help him carry it and he pushed me away and said he had been moving this stuff for over sixty years and was quite capable of moving it now. I gave him my apologies and started to leave. He noticed that I had been looking at the rusty dutch oven and wanted to know if I was going to buy it. I said it depends on if my job interview goes well or not. He asked me what I did and I told him I was trying to be a chef, what kinda knives do you have? I told him and he shook his head and mumbled some derogatory things about crap and quality. I told him I had to go or I was going to be late to the interview and he said hold on a minute and reached into the box he was carrying and handed me a beat up scary looking knife and said "you should always have a good knife in your kit", I told him thank you for the suggestion, but I couldn't afford to buy any knives right now. He said take it and when you get the job, you can pay me for it. I said thank you and took off to the interview. 
I got there on time and was told the chef was on his way and would be there in ten minutes. As I waited , I forgot about the knife the old man gave me, until he walked into the restaurant. I told him that I would pay him when I could, but if he had a change of heart I would gladly return it. He said don't worry.He was only there for lunch and walked away. A few minutes later the hostess says the chef will see you now. I walk back to the kitchen and there is the old man in chef whites, He was the chef and owner, and when I looked at him in confusion and a little bit of fear, he smiled and said "you should always have a good knife in your kit." I didn't get the job I wanted, but I worked with him for about 6 months and we became good friends, I learned a lot about life and tradition from him. Everyday for breakfast we had a glass of wine and a few pieces of cheese and some slices of apple. He would sweep the front of the restaurant himself, because he felt that his customers should know the owner cared. I met his family and they were as gracious as he was. 
One day, I was running a little late and when I got to work, the doors were unlocked, but nobody was there. I locked up and went to the antique mall to see if he was there. They hadn't seen him. I went back to the restaurant and the manager Sophie was there, crying. Chef had died sitting at the table with 2 glasses of wine some cheese and sliced apples. I miss chef, but I try to carry on a lot of the things I learned from him. Sophie and I still keep in touch, she is the one who sends me the vintage Sabatiers. I talked to her about what I wanted to do and she agrees that Chef would do exactly the same thing. I have no regrets with this decision and I would be quite happy if whoever got this knife would bring it to life and either use it or give it to someone they think can accept it in the tradition of my Chef and friend. Put a new handle on it, polish the blade, thin behind the edge and make it sing again.

1920's nogent chef knife, This knife was probably originally 8 inches x 2 inches,It is now 5.5 inches x 1.75 inches, Chef said he had it for 50 years and that it was this size when he got it from his chef. It was snapped off in a kitchen brawl apparently, no details given. It has what appears to be a nickel silver collar and solid no cracks ebony handle. It's handle has and up sweep from years of use and a scalpel like blade. This knife I used for years as a boning knife, I would hold it like a dagger point down and bone using a sweeping motion. I have used knives from all over the world, different shapes and sizes. I have used knives ten times sharper and this knife still scares me.
Have fun and remember " you should always have a good knife in your kit."


----------



## steeley (Feb 21, 2012)

great story great knife.


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 21, 2012)

thank you, great man.


----------



## mano (Feb 21, 2012)

Good lord, that's a helluva story!


----------



## WildBoar (Feb 21, 2012)

^^x2. And it's great that you not only embraced his ideals, but are setting the example for the later generations.


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 21, 2012)

who wants to give it a go?


----------



## Deckhand (Feb 21, 2012)

Wow that is a touching story. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 22, 2012)

no takers,really? you guys disappoint me. come on somebody do it.


----------



## Crothcipt (Feb 22, 2012)

I can't get this knife out of my head. I just know that I have no experience to be trying to work this. would love to see a wip on it.


----------



## Johnny.B.Good (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm all for it happening, but like Crothcipt, I don't have the experience to attempt it myself.


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 22, 2012)

It's not about experience, everyone had to start somewhere. This project is all about learning new things and pushing boundaries. you have an amazing amount of resources here to fall upon. you can do most everything by hand and you can make it into anything you want. you can re-imagine yourself and the knife. HaHa!


----------



## Benuser (Feb 22, 2012)

Please let me know if I'm in error, but the work on the last Nogent could be restrained to thinning, polishing and sharpening the blade. The ebony handle should stay as it is. I could however imagine someone to modify its profile somewhat: by its present length it might be used as a boning knife. I would therefore remove the remaining curve to have a pure triangle. Any thoughts?


----------



## Candlejack (Feb 22, 2012)

sachem allison said:


> It's not about experience, everyone had to start somewhere. This project is all about learning new things and pushing boundaries. you have an amazing amount of resources here to fall upon. you can do most everything by hand and you can make it into anything you want. you can re-imagine yourself and the knife. HaHa!



What sort of resources would be needed to complete this you'd think?

I'm in love with it. But i have no experiance before, and to then undertake it on a knife that has some serious meaning to you, that would feel like some real wrong-doing.
I know how much these gifts mean. I recently got a 75 year old book with alot of information, an original by Karl Blunck, chef at the Savoy. This will say nothing to you, but it was one of the best places in Sweden in the 30's. This i got from the older cook in the real kitchen. (Our school is next to a hotel with rooms for companies to educate their employees in, can't figure out the english word for it.)
This gift means more than the actual book itself. As said, it's a sign of hope and respect.

Not to mention the fact that i would be unable to rehandle it if it's needed. 



That said - i will not be a taker for this, probably not even one that doesn't have any - real - sentimental meaning. But i really like that you put it out there, and that you give people a chance to experience these. It can't be said enough, you really are a great person.


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 22, 2012)

Benuser said:


> Please let me know if I'm in error, but the work on the last Nogent could be restrained to thinning, polishing and sharpening the blade. The ebony handle should stay as it is. I could however imagine someone to modify its profile somewhat: by its present length it might be used as a boning knife. I would therefore remove the remaining curve to have a pure triangle. Any thoughts?



the proposition Is that you can do what ever you want to this knife, to give it a new useable life. I only require that you do a wip and let us know what your intentions are with this knife, whether you plan to use it or give it to an up an coming cook or an old timer who would appreciate it. If you agree to the terms I will give you the knife to do as you will. Try the knife out with the curve first it might surprise you at how nimble it is.


----------



## tk59 (Feb 22, 2012)

That one wouldn't take much more than a little elbow grease and sandpaper, it seems. I looks a little like one of those Shun boners. http://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=5814


----------



## RobinW (Feb 22, 2012)

i'll take it if no one else has yet.

I will however not keep it for myself. This is a knife that deserves to be owned by a chef (which i am not) and i know that Candlejack is one (but he does not have access to the tools needed). 
I'll do my best to restore the blade and keep the handle and will then pass it on to him to use in his professional life which is just starting out.

If this is ok, then i'll be happy to give it a try.

Thanks

Edit; i now understand benuser might be first on the ball. If that faalls through i am interested.


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 22, 2012)

benuser has this one, but over the course of the next few months there will be more. just wait. i got you guys covered


----------



## Benuser (Apr 6, 2012)

The first impression the Nogent was almost overwhelming, probably by its apparently basic triangular form. Once you have a better look at it you realise it isn't that basic at all: there's a nice curve without the traditional flat area near the heel. Probably the first grinder after the kitchen incident Son has referred to got rid of it. In fact he did a great job: there's a remarkable distal taper: at 1cm from the heel the spine measures some 4.5mm; at 1cm from the tip 0.8mm.
My intention was to use the Nogent as a one and only knife in my humble home kitchen to evaluate it's possibilities before any geometry change. The edge was very rounded and at 0.5cm behind the edge I found a thickness of 1.5mm. The edge itself felt like butter after years of steeling. Once some steel being removed there appeared an extremely aggressive edge. The steel has a relatively coarse grain, something like tool steel, that can be polished without losing its bite.
Because of the thickness I decided to abandon the traditional symmetry and moved the edge to the left side. I flattened the convex left side somewhat and convexed the right one a little. The very edge measures 12/15 degree with a 70/30 proportion (right / left). Just sharpening at one side only and deburring the other one. This kind of edge will encounter less friction and therefore hold a much lower angle.


----------



## Benuser (Apr 6, 2012)

hosting images


----------



## Benuser (Apr 6, 2012)

I'm a little uncertain about further thinning behind the edge. As said the thickness I found was some 1.5mm at 0.5cm. I've removed the half of it, and hesitate as I don't want to prejudice the actual performant edge. I must add that the tip area is already very nimble and I don't want it to get really fragile. Any thoughts?


----------



## ecchef (Apr 6, 2012)

Are you going to attempt to straighten the handle?


----------



## knyfeknerd (Apr 6, 2012)

I totally missed this thread before, hell I probably wasn't a member when it started. But it's great. Thank you Son for all your great stories and giving these knives an opportunity to have a new or continued life. 
Benuser, your progress looks awesome. Have you tried it out yet, without thinning out the blade anymore? Cleaned up any primal cuts?
Can't wait to see more wips, maybe I'll get my hands on one someday.


----------



## Benuser (Apr 6, 2012)

ecchef said:


> Are you going to attempt to straighten the handle?


I just don't care..
.I'm aware there has been a handle problem, see the hammered ferrule, but I won't touch it!


----------



## SpikeC (Apr 6, 2012)

If it works on your hand it does not need to be changed.


----------



## Benuser (Apr 6, 2012)

knyfeknerd said:


> I totally missed this thread before, hell I probably wasn't a member when it started. But it's great. Thank you Son for all your great stories and giving these knives an opportunity to have a new or continued life.
> Benuser, your progress looks awesome. Have you tried it out yet, without thinning out the blade anymore? Cleaned up any primal cuts?
> Can't wait to see more wips, maybe I'll get my hands on one someday.


I must say my first attemps with this knife where very strange, as I had to change all my habits because of its profile. Pushing where you were pulling and vice-versa.


----------



## kalaeb (Apr 6, 2012)

Pretty darn good. Thanks for the pics.


----------



## Benuser (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks! I tried to give an idea of my grinding before establishing a patina.


----------



## steeley (Apr 6, 2012)

I think it looks great. fun knife and great history 
enjoy


----------



## sachem allison (Apr 6, 2012)

Benuser said:


> hosting images



she looks happy again! thank you, my friend.
son


----------



## tk59 (Apr 6, 2012)

Nice. Looks almost like a honesuki.


----------



## mr drinky (Apr 7, 2012)

i like what you have done to it. 

k.


----------



## Benuser (Apr 7, 2012)

Thank you, guys!
A honesuki? Sure, I will continue with the present asymmetry till I encounter some wedging or steering issue. Then a few strokes more on the left side will do.


----------



## dav (Apr 7, 2012)

What a great thread and close to my heart but for me it was always old English tools which can be brought for pennies at "car boot sales" over here in the UK. I never looked for knives preferring tools but am sure you can pick up old English knives for very little. If I got to any this year I'll see what I can find, are there makers/names to look out for as these things are relatively plentiful over here?


----------



## Candlejack (Apr 7, 2012)

dav said:


> What a great thread and close to my heart but for me it was always old English tools which can be brought for pennies at "car boot sales" over here in the UK. I never looked for knives preferring tools but am sure you can pick up old English knives for very little. If I got to any this year I'll see what I can find, are there makers/names to look out for as these things are relatively plentiful over here?



Old sheffields are the one i know about!


----------



## Benuser (Apr 7, 2012)

Have a look here. 

www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/5432-Old-Sheffield-Kitchen-knives
Especially post no. 10.


----------



## Benuser (Jul 18, 2012)

I believe you guys are entitled to an update.
The Nogent's tip had become extremely weak and couldn't be sharpened anymore, due to the irregular spine, years of steeling and heavy thinning. I lowered the tip by abrading some material from the spine under an angle of 15 degree. The angle the tip makes between edge and spine was doubled. The loss of length along the edge is less than 3 milimeters. 
It took me some time to get used to the new appearance, but a strong tip is more in accordance with the character of Chef's Nogent. 




[img=http://s19.postimage.org/t591u40wv/Nogent_tp3.jpg]


----------



## TB_London (Jul 18, 2012)

I've been looking for old English knives for a while but no success finding anything of quality, when I ask people the response has to do with climbing their corpse first.
Annoying when they are in need of a regrind and sharpen from years of steeling or pull through 'sharpeners'. At least let me fix it so it performs how it should


----------



## Benuser (Jul 18, 2012)

Another pic:

[img=http://s19.postimage.org/tlu9gjonz/Nogent_tip4.jpg]


----------



## sachem allison (Jul 18, 2012)

excellent work, I love the new profile.


----------



## DwarvenChef (Jul 19, 2012)

I love getting these vintage pieces cleaned up enough for everyday use be keeping their history intact. Keep up the good work Son


----------



## cordova527 (Nov 23, 2013)

Hey guys my name is Mike. I just acquired my first antique knife and came across this thread. I have a Gregory Bros Cutlers knife thats hand forged. I have zero information about the company, it's age, and value. Here are pictures of the knife. I would really appreciate it if anyone could help.
PS. sorry for bringing this thread back from the dead but it's the only one that exists on the internet with a Gregory Brothers knife.
http://www.iknifecollector.com/forum/topics/gregory-bros-cutlers-sheffield


----------



## Benuser (Nov 23, 2013)

Welcome, Mike! As a matter of fact, I can't see the pictures. Perhaps you should use an image host like postimage.org and post here the link they provide.


----------



## GlassEye (Nov 24, 2013)

cordova527 said:


> Hey guys my name is Mike. I just acquired my first antique knife and came across this thread. I have a Gregory Bros Cutlers knife thats hand forged. I have zero information about the company, it's age, and value. Here are pictures of the knife. I would really appreciate it if anyone could help.
> PS. sorry for bringing this thread back from the dead but it's the only one that exists on the internet with a Gregory Brothers knife.
> http://www.iknifecollector.com/forum/topics/gregory-bros-cutlers-sheffield



Don't have any information for you, but I really like that knife. Someone here will know something.


----------



## cordova527 (Nov 24, 2013)




----------



## cordova527 (Nov 24, 2013)

I also posted in the ebay community with pictures. Here is the link.
http://community.ebay.com/t5/Antiques-and-Research/Antique-Gregory-Brothers-Knife/gpm-p/18380967


----------



## hobbitling (Nov 24, 2013)

did a bit of googling, here's what I found.

They operate out of a historic industrial building called "the beehive works" in Sheffield England. Not sure when Gregory Bros. was founded, but In 1968, Gregory Brothers cutlery merged with a company called Joseph Fenton cutlery (which was founded in 1795), and they became Gregory Fenton Ltd, which is apparently still in business, but doesn't seem to have a website. 

That should get you started.


----------



## cordova527 (Nov 24, 2013)

Thank you for responding. I also found the information you presented as well. What puzzles me the most is every Gregory Brothers knife I have seen has the Bee Hive logo on it. Mine does not and is stamped hand forged. I'm beginning to believe my knife may have been produced when Gregory Brothers first opened business predating their merge with Gregory Fenton and the Bee Hive Works. Possibly early 1800's.


----------



## sachem allison (Nov 24, 2013)

Hello, Mike
I actually think your knife does predate the Beehive works by about 10 to 20 years.The beeHive works began around the 1850's and was worked on until the 1890"s. Gregory bros. merged with Fenton in 1968 and most of their lines where discontinued by the 80"s. Your blade is very reminiscent of the 1850"s through the turn of the century. It was a quite common design butcher/trapper trade knife era. My Gregory Brother chef knife was made around the late 1880"s if I remember correctly and it already had the bee hive on it.


----------



## cordova527 (Nov 24, 2013)

Very interesting. Any idea on what the value would be for this knife?


----------



## sachem allison (Nov 25, 2013)

they are not particular valuable. Unfortunately, folks just don't value quality as much as they used to and the merger with Fenton really wasn't the best decision. The quality began to suffer and the reputation also. there are very few collectors of old Gregory Bros work, it is a very narrow area of collectibles. I would say on a very good day between $50-$75 .


----------



## cordova527 (Nov 25, 2013)

Thank you so much. I was going to sell if it it's value was high but now I'm adding it to my knife collection. This will be my first antique knife. The history behind it intrigues me so much! Thank you again!


----------



## Dutchy357 (Feb 18, 2020)

sachem allison said:


> Here is the next challenge. it is simple gently restore this beautiful slicer. This is one of my favorite knives. I love the feel and texture of the handle. the copper birds eyes rivets, The ancient British Oak handle and the gorgeous lines of the 12 in blade. It is a masterpiece of the knife makers art. The knife was made on the late 1800's probably 1880's by the Gregory Bros cutlery company. They moved to the Bee hive works in Sheffield , England I do believe in the 1870's or 80's. They have been in business since the 1820's. they were bought out by Fenton in 1968 and became Gregory Fenton something. Like most acquisitions quality suffered and most of what they make is **** now, When this was made Sheffield was at the peak of their game and were world renowned for the quality of their blades and steel. This is something you won't see. It is rare, both in quality and quantity, It very well may have been made for a top hotel or country estate. It is quintessentially British in design, as is evident by the bird's head handle. for some reason higher end British Blades always had saber shaped handles . The handle I have been told was made from old ,now non-existent British Oak. It has a character that I have never seen or felt. It is magnificent. It has handmade patinated copper bird's eye rivets, not corby bolts. The blade is beautifully proportioned from virgin carbon steel and hand forged by a master smith. It is a 12 in razor. There is a gradual distal taper both in the blade and the tang. It balances just forward of the bolster. Did I mention how magnificent this knife is. It need a very gentle restoration. it is perfectly useable and beautiful now, but if you want to use it professionally, which I would, it needs some tlc.
> So, same deal as the Sabatier if you are willing to take on this project, provide a wip and let us know what you did or are doing with this knife, I will give it to you. I need to pass on these things, as I have so many projects that I can never get them done. Have fun. son
> 
> View attachment 4692
> ...




Hi Son

I realise that this is resurecting an old thread.

I am a researcher, collector and custodian of Australian Military knives.

I found this thread by chance while looking for information on Gregory Brothers. What caught my

attention about this knife is that it carries an Australian Military acceptance mark D/I\D which

indicates that it was issued to the Australain Army at some stage.

To date I have not included Kitchen Cutlery on my web page. This I am in the process of rectifying.

While not as glamorous as fighting knives, kitchen cutlery probably played a greater role in any

Military operation than is given credit for. After all it was the kitchen cutlery in the hands of the

Bait Layers (cooks) that got the Diggers (aussie soldiers) fed. The simple KFS (Knife, fork and spoon)

set was probably as close as most diggers got to handling a knife during their service. Frankly, I take

my hat off to the Army cooks in war zones that worked under incredible hardships to keep our diggers

fed.

Do you still have this knife?
Am I able to get photo's of it for my web page?
Do you know anythingf about the history of this knife?


Regards Dutchy


----------



## NO ChoP! (Feb 18, 2020)

Son is more active on social media. He is definitely a wealth of information.


----------



## Matus (Feb 19, 2020)

@Dutchy357 , maby sending Son a PM would make more sense since you are asking him a quite specific question - he will most likely get a notification about that. He has been last time on KKF about a month ago, so he may miss your question


----------



## Dutchy357 (Feb 19, 2020)

@NO ChoP! 
@Matus 

Thank you guys!

Dutchy


----------



## sachem allison (Feb 23, 2020)

Still love you guys though just trying to keep alive.


----------

