# Cheap stones vs expensive stones? Please advise



## hentaides (Feb 8, 2018)

Hi guys. 
As the titles says, please advice or direct me to an older thread.


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## TheCaptain (Feb 8, 2018)

We need a little more info? Naturals or synthetics? What are you looking to accomplish - killer edge or a specific polish?

Tell us what you want to do with them. F wiw my favorite stone is an oversized Hideriyama kappa from JNS. It's the size of a dinnerplate, produces nice mud, and leaves a nice toothy edge with a hazy finish.


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## hentaides (Feb 8, 2018)

Please educate me sensei! Regarding difference between natural and synthetic or what they do.

I would say killer edge........ 

So do expensive stones really do justice as compare to...50dollar stones? lol Cause my friend got me a 1000grid in japan for the worth of like 20AUD LOL.


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## Badgertooth (Feb 8, 2018)

Technique is paramount and will largely determine the quality of your edge. Practise on the 20AUD stone till it effortlessly cuts kitchen towel or clean shaves your arm hair or ghosts through tomato skins. Only then will you really benefit from a more expensive stone. And its a diminishing rate of return with naturals. A $800 stone isnt 4x better than $200 stone, its just a 9.8 out of 10 instead of 9 out of 10. Or as is sometimes the case, qualitatively its still a 9 but its bigger, squarer and yellower.


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## StonedEdge (Feb 8, 2018)

What is everyone's go-to cheap coarse synth?


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## TheCaptain (Feb 8, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> What is everyone's go-to cheap coarse synth?



JNI 220 pink brick. Gets the job done when fixing small nicks and breaking down stupid dull stainless without feeling like I'm working on concrete. It's $45USD so there are cheaper out there, but I like it and so far doesn't seem to dish too quickly.


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## StonedEdge (Feb 8, 2018)

TheCaptain said:


> JNI 220 pink brick. Gets the job done when fixing small nicks and breaking down stupid dull stainless without feeling like I'm working on concrete. It's $45USD so there are cheaper out there, but I like it and so far doesn't seem to dish too quickly.


This particular stone seems to get a decent amount of love. Thanks for the input!!


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## K813zra (Feb 8, 2018)

I agree that a cheap stone is fine from a utility standpoint. You can get the edge that you need but that does not mean you should not pay a few dollars more to get a stone that is more suited to your needs. By that I mean to say a stone that will fit into your scheduled as most utility sharpeners want to pull out a stone and get to sharpening as soon as their knife starts dulling. Likewise they want something they can put away just as quick. In this case I find that splash and go stones are a better suggestion than soakers. So if you go with something like Shapton over King, yes, you are going to pay more. However, in this case the point is not getting a better edge but getting a stone that better fits your needs as a sharpener. 

Aside from that we always talk about things like tactile feedback, feel in use (creamy etc), and many other 'enjoyment' factors but the thing is that you really do not need to worry about any of that to put an edge on your knife. If you intend to become a sharpening enthusiast or nutcase like some of us, sure those are things to think about and then maybe you would be better served by picking up something cheap and soft that dishing like a block of cheese. Why, because you are going to be building preference and you are going to spend more money in the future anyway. But again, if you just want to 'get it done' I always suggest something dish resistant and splash and go like Shapton Pro stones. They simple work, are not over the top expensive and are easy enough to use and maintain. 

Aside:

As for the question about a cheap coarse stone, I too like my pink brick(mine is from Imanishi not from Jon but they all seem very similar.). Not my favorite stone but I like it for what it is and you can jump directly to a 1000+ grit stone with nothing between and it is fast enough to remove atoma 140 scratches. It is cheap too...but the damn thing takes forever to dry! Seriously, it feels dry but set a paper on it after a few days of drying and then check it in a few hours, the paper will be wet. I noticed this when I started setting my diamond plate on top of my stone for storage. Well, I would come back in a day or two and the stone had tons of condensation on it. So I tried the paper, sure enough it was drawing water out of the center. So, keep it in the open for a few days after use!


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## Grunt173 (Feb 8, 2018)

OP wants to know if anybody knows of an old thread concerning his question,cheap stones vs. expensive stones.Myself,I am not aware of that particular thread but maybe somebody does.


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## K813zra (Feb 8, 2018)

Grunt173 said:


> OP wants to know if anybody knows of an old thread concerning his question,cheap stones vs. expensive stones.Myself,I am not aware of that particular thread but maybe somebody does.



I limit myself to 5 pages of archives and after that, in my mind, it does not exist. :biggrin:


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## Grunt173 (Feb 8, 2018)

K813zra said:


> I limit myself to 5 pages of archives and after that, in my mind, it does not exist. :biggrin:



5 pages? I could use you around here to help me remember where I put stuff yesterday.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 8, 2018)

The expensive (say, more costly than a king) ones seem to be about:

-Visual finishes, esp on non-edge portions - like the mirror polish from a superstone, or what can be done with jnats
-Speed and durability, eg when thinning


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## Benuser (Feb 8, 2018)

Let your first stones be fast. Fast results, good or bad, fast correction of errors, no taking bad habits due to fatigue or concentration loss.


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## StonedEdge (Feb 8, 2018)

Benuser said:


> Let your first stones be fast. Fast results, good or bad, fast correction of errors, no taking bad habits due to fatigue or concentration loss.


Bingo


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## Nemo (Feb 8, 2018)

Benuser said:


> Let your first stones be fast. Fast results, good or bad, fast correction of errors, no taking bad habits due to fatigue or concentration loss.


Good advice.


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## daveb (Feb 8, 2018)

A "good stone" will not make you a good sharpener. No more than a good knife will make you a good cook.

Only good technique will do that. (I'm still looking for some)


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## hentaides (Feb 9, 2018)

I had 1000(AUD 10?), 4000(AUD 20-40?) and 9000(AUD90).

I sharpened my knife for a while and extremely frequent cause i just love knife that cuts everything like butter but i believe that my angle is too flat? (not sure if thats the term) that it doesnt stay sharp as long as it should.

Need to practice it more.

Normally when (or how often) do you use 220, 1000, 3000? or the higher grits?

Do you use anything 1000 only for repairs?


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## Benuser (Feb 9, 2018)

If it doesn't hold an edge, perhaps incomplete deburring is the cause. In a home setting, touching up once a week on a 3k by performing a few light stropping strokes and deburring should do. If the edge doesn't feel smooth after two strokes, go to the next coarser stone and do the same stropping and deburring, and come back to the 3k.
With these touch-ups you may postpone the next full sharpening for months.


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## K813zra (Feb 9, 2018)

hentaides said:


> I had 1000(AUD 10?), 4000(AUD 20-40?) and 9000(AUD90).
> 
> I sharpened my knife for a while and extremely frequent cause i just love knife that cuts everything like butter but i believe that my angle is too flat? (not sure if thats the term) that it doesnt stay sharp as long as it should.
> 
> ...



It really depends on the knife. I can bring most of my white steel knives back by doing biweekly touch ups in a 5-8k stone or a natural finisher. Super cheap stainless from a big box has to drop back to the 1k 2-3 times a week. 

Coarse stones like 220 is something I normally only use once or twice in a knife's lifetime. For thinning or repair or 'opening' a knife that was not well set from the factory.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 9, 2018)

@daveb but a horrible stone (the grey brick type, not a king or something) is the kind of tool that can put the blame on the workman.


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## PalmRoyale (Feb 9, 2018)

One of the best synthetics I have ever used is the cheap 4ss Tyrolit 89A Super. It's just 15 but it's incredibly fast, doesn't load up, has great feedback and creates a very good edge on knives and chisels. The only downside is that it's a stinker. When you sharpen on it and it starts to release some mud it emits a stench like rotten eggs. If it didn't stink so much I would still be using it.


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## Grunt173 (Feb 9, 2018)

PalmRoyale said:


> One of the best synthetics I have ever used is the cheap 4ss Tyrolit 89A Super. It's just 15 but it's incredibly fast, doesn't load up, has great feedback and creates a very good edge on knives and chisels. The only downside is that it's a stinker. When you sharpen on it and it starts to release some mud it emits a stench like rotten eggs. If it didn't stink so much I would still be using it.



Thanks for sharing that with us.lol Right now,I am thinking about a good use for an old fashin clothes pin.


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## Benuser (Feb 9, 2018)

PalmRoyale said:


> One of the best synthetics I have ever used is the cheap 4ss Tyrolit 89A Super. It's just 15 but it's incredibly fast, doesn't load up, has great feedback and creates a very good edge on knives and chisels. The only downside is that it's a stinker. When you sharpen on it and it starts to release some mud it emits a stench like rotten eggs. If it didn't stink so much I would still be using it.


Carborundum I guess? Any idea of the grit? The ones I've used dished very quickly.


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## PalmRoyale (Feb 9, 2018)

It's 4000 grit and according to the description it's a White Alundum, ceramic bonded stone. Oh man, that thing is so foul smelling.


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## inferno (Feb 11, 2018)

hentaides said:


> Hi guys.
> As the titles says, please advice or direct me to an older thread.



if you are maintaining only like 3 knives or so you can probably get away with any combo stone and some flattening stone foir the rest of your life.

if you like to tinker with knives you will want better though. I prefer my shapton glass as my best stones. They are fast and dish slow and makes a good edge. and they feel good.
Also the shapton pros are good. i have the 1k and 2k, used for cutomer knives only at work. very cheap and good for the price imo. I got mine from fine tools germany, they are the cheapest in europe.
Also cheapest on chosera stones.

The choseras have a tendency of cracking though. 

I have the chosera 1k, and its regarded by many as the best 1k there is. I like it too. I think its a bit soft though. and it releases lots of particles (wears) compared to the shappro 1k and glass 1k. 

downsides with the shappros are that there is nothing in between the 2k and the 5k. and I'd like to stop at maybe 3 or 4k on my own knives.

There is no rule against mixing and matching though.


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## hentaides (Feb 14, 2018)

Okay 
I have a ridiculous favour to ask.

I am a newb. I am guessing i need a 1k, 3-5k? or natural?

Can anyone please recommend me the stones? 
Natural or synthetic?
What type? 1k? 5k? 3k? 8k?

Name of the stone so i can search it up and buy it. Preferably not expensive ones because you know, newbie here, probably end up damaging the stones.

I do have a stone holder, nagura and a flattening stone (Not sure about their quality but i am guessing cant be TOO different........right? ><)

Please advice, senseis T_T

I did search for the 1k that was recommended and was regarded as one of the best 1k stones in ebay
NANIWA CHOSERA Super Ceramics Stone SS-1000/#1000,w/Holder & Dressing Stone <-- is that fine? If yes, i shall buy it when i have the money. Probably needa buy another knife to practice it on.


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## Benuser (Feb 14, 2018)

Minimal Naniwa Pro (former Chosera) 800 + Belgian Blue for deburring. Next buy Naniwa Pro 3k for more refinement. 400 for thinning. Atoma 140 for stone flattening, comes with stone holder.


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Feb 14, 2018)

hentaides said:


> ... Can anyone please recommend me the stones? ....



I think it'd really be hard to go wrong with anything Jon @JKI stocks, but shipping to outside USA can be a burden from him. In another thread, I see you're in Australia. James @Knives & Stones has a similar reputation (though shipping from him can be a disincentive for me here) and I'd check him out. He has Stone Sets on his site. Or, to start on a budget I don't think the Cerax 1000 & Rika 5000 would be a bad choice. You'd need a diamond flattening plate and, maybe, something like the Cerax 320, if you have damage to repair or bad gummy stainless knives you want to sharpen.


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## Chef Doom (Feb 23, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> What is everyone's go-to cheap coarse synth?


JKI 400 never fails me. Gets rid of any nicks and micro chips with just a few motions.


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## Chef Doom (Feb 23, 2018)

K813zra said:


> I limit myself to 5 pages of archives and after that, in my mind, it does not exist. [emoji3]


LOL It's funny cause it's true!


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