# Are all Japanese knives made from harder steel?



## FireDragon76

Are all Japanese knives made from harder steel- or just the high-end ones? I'm asking because it is possible, for instance, off Amazon to buy santoku and nakiri for 11-20 dollars or so.


----------



## chinacats

No telling what they are made of but you get what you pay for...why not stop wasting ten bucks at the time to wind up with basically crap and just shell out <~100 one time?


----------



## FireDragon76

I actually think a soft, cheap knife is the way to go- it'll give me more experience sharpening. I just want to get one that has a reasonable edge to start out.


----------



## ChefJimbo

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UAPQEA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UAPQGS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Save yourself a headache, perfect entry level for your needs


----------



## Pensacola Tiger

FireDragon76 said:


> I actually think a soft, cheap knife is the way to go- it'll give me more experience sharpening. I just want to get one that has a reasonable edge to start out.



Actually, it's not. Trying to sharpen a soft, cheap knife will be frustrating and you will learn little from it.

The Tojiro shirogami series is one of the better choices of an inexpensive knife to learn on: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G5HBRW2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

FireDragon76 said:


> I actually think a soft, cheap knife is the way to go- it'll give me more experience sharpening. I just want to get one that has a reasonable edge to start out.



Are you referring to sharpening on whetstones or the pull thru sharpener you mentioned in an earlier thread? If budget is a constraint, I'd suggest to get the tojiro DP chefs knife / gyuto, this way you'll have a usable tip for detailed work. Learn to sharpen with your current knives if you're uncomfortable learning on the tojiro.


----------



## ThEoRy

FireDragon76 said:


> I actually think a soft, cheap knife is the way to go- it'll give me more experience sharpening. I just want to get one that has a reasonable edge to start out.



Nope. A very frustrating experience awaits you if you follow this path.


----------



## FireDragon76

I want to get into whetstones. I'm already seeing too many limitations from pull-throughs. I returned one of them I bought because it's just not working out for me. 

I have a small cutting space to work (my cutting board is 12 1/2 x 9). Chef knives are huge- I used one years ago and I was never comfortable with it. I prefer chopping (what is "detailed work"?). Most of my cooking is stir-fry or slow cooker- I'm not a chef, so it's mostly chopping vegetables and slicing a little bit of meat (boneless chicken thighs and pork). I have managed to get my Faberware 5" santoku usably sharp by using an old coffee mug, but I'd like to get real stones to work with, so I'm going to go look at Ace hardware later, and maybe pick up a ceramic sharpening rod or a King 1000 grit stone from Amazon. I'm not sure what will fit my needs. I don't need razor sharp knives but I need them sharp enough that it's safe and not too frustrating.


----------



## NotThinEnough

soft steel - more sharpening, i get the logic but cheap AND soft steels are frustrating to get a clean,burrless edge.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

FireDragon76 said:


> I want to get into whetstones.
> 
> I have a small cutting space to work (my cutting board is 12 1/2 x 9). Chef knives are huge- I used one years ago and I was never comfortable with it. I prefer chopping (what is "detailed work"?). Most of my cooking is stir-fry or slow cooker- I'm not a chef. I have managed to get my Faberware 5" santoku usably sharp by using an old coffee mug, but I'd like to get real stones to work with, so I'm going to go look at Ace hardware later, and maybe pick up a ceramic sharpening rod or a King 1000 grit stone from Amazon.



If you think an 8" / 210mm chef knife is too big and prefer to chop, maybe get a decent santoku (~7" / 180mm) rather than a number of cheap knives. The santoku still has somewhat of a usable tip for detail work, although not as usable as a gyuto IMO. By detail work I meant using the tip for precision work; I suggested a gyuto because it may save you from also needing a Parer/Petty for detail work if $ is tight. I wouldn't buy a ceramic rod, a 1000 grit should be adequate (more expensive steels would want to go to a higher grit)


----------



## FireDragon76

Is a 5" santoku a waste? I like the size but I'd like to hear other peoples experiences.

I do very little paring, just on bell peppers.

I don't need a knife sharp enough to cut a tomato- I have a serrated Furi tomato knife that works fine for that. I only eat tomato occasionally in thin slices on a sandwich, otherwise, my stomach cannot tolerate it.

I've seen ceramic rods used to sharpen serrated knives (by essentially using it as a strop). Has anyone on the forum got actual experience doing this? I also want to get some serrated steak knives, thinking about maybe victorinox.


----------



## daveb

You're making the same baseless assertions in four(?) threads now. Not sure if you're obstinate, obtuse trolling or just effing with us. What ever, it's amusing. Especially the part about citing ATK to take us to skool. And the link to Kiwi - first time I've seen that.

Should you want to learn anything about good kitchen knives will suggest you spend more time in receive than in transmit.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

FireDragon76 said:


> Is a 5" santoku a waste? I like the size but I'd like to hear other peoples experiences.



The easy answer is "it depends". It would be too small for me, but if it works for you than okay. I'll sometimes do 500g of baby kale, spinach, chard on a 12"x18" board (if I'm too lazy to use a bigger one) and I wouldn't be able to cut the width of that amount of produce (even bunched up) with a 5" knife


----------



## FireDragon76

I got to sharpening today with a basic whetstone on the faberware santoku and finishing with a pull-through ceramic sharpener. The blade is sharp enough now to slice paper with only a little pressure. But I'm still noticing a tendency to have problems cutting larger bits of vegetable. When I go to cut something like carrots or bok choy, I notice a tendency to cut just fine for a bit, then start to stick to the food (the kullens are way too high on the blade) and I sometimes even hear a squeaking sound and I have to increase the pressure a little in my chop. I had been trying to flatten the blade up by grinding a 10-degree bevel into the blade.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I believe it was mentioned multiple times in another thread but it sounds like it's too thick. A more acute bevel angle would help but you'll also want to thin behind the edge given the thickness. Lots of reading awaits


----------



## bkultra

I wouldn't use that website as any sort of guide. A lot of misinformation (eg. Bread knives are 5" long, cleavers are ment to hack bones and somehow stay sharp because of their shape???, etc.)

Quotes from the site:

" A lot of cooks and professional chefs prefer to buy knife sets because they can get a variety of knives for one price."


"The best knives are made out of a single piece of hand forged steel" 


"The best knife blades are ceramic because it can be sharpened to be made as sharp as a scalpel, stay sharp for a long time, and they do not rust."

:scratchhead:


----------



## Pensacola Tiger

bkultra said:


> I wouldn't use that website as any sort of guide. A lot of misinformation (eg. Bread knives are 5" long, cleavers are ment to hack bones and somehow stay sharp because of their shape???, etc.)
> 
> Quotes from the site:
> 
> " A lot of cooks and professional chefs prefer to buy knife sets because they can get a variety of knives for one price."
> 
> 
> "The best knives are made out of a single piece of hand forged steel"
> 
> 
> "The best knife blades are ceramic because it can be sharpened to be made as sharp as a scalpel, stay sharp for a long time, and they do not rust."
> 
> :scratchhead:



They lost me when they called a paring knife a "pairing knife". It went downhill from there.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

That's garbage, everything you need is available at KKF. The following link is credible:
http://www.zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/usetype/all/index.shtml


----------



## daveb

nadita said:


> The majority of japanes knives are made from harder steel
> 
> *Types of Japanese Kitchen Knives*
> 
> There are quite a few types of kitchen knives.....



Are you offering up this tripe to solicit opinions about it or as cast in stone from the knife gods?


----------



## Pensacola Tiger

daveb said:


> Are you offering up this tripe to solicit opinions about it or as cast in stone from the knife gods?



Dave, it appears that the website is a work in progress, and we are being used as proofreaders. I mentioned that a paring knife was called a "pairing" knife, and the error was corrected in minutes. Take that for what it's worth.


----------



## Bill13

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Dave, it appears that the website is a work in progress, and we are being used as proofreaders. I mentioned that a paring knife was called a "pairing" knife, and the error was corrected in minutes. Take that for what it's worth.



Nice catch Rick, won't be clicking on that link.


----------



## ecchef

Rule #1: don't believe everything you see on the internet.
Do some poking around this forum. You'll learn an awful lot in a short amount of time.
Also, we frown upon market research here, so tread lightly.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Read their bio on their profile cofounder of the website


----------



## chinacats

nadita said:


> What's wrong, it's my site what's wrong with owning a site and trying to improve it? Please, if you have some constructive advices welcome and I'm not hiding beside anything and I'm proud to be the cofounder of the site just looking to improve and make this article a sort of guide.
> 
> Thanks



What's wrong is that what you are doing is against forum rules...kind of like a spammer, only worse. Do your marketing research elsewhere. I suggest crap knives to go forum...they'd love to have you...or you could pay to be a vendor here and get some legit feedback--though you may not be able to handle it.:tease:


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Not trying to sound rude but KKF and the website you linked are in different leagues. I glanced at the cutting board article and there is no mention of the issues of teak/bamboo cutting boards with high end knives don't want to say more.

As for market research, and I don't speak as an official of KKF, but you are attempting to develop a third party resource site when the same already exists here  effectively rerouting traffic, don't think the site sponsors would approve 

Off topic but I personally liked helping the mba student with the research for their marketing project about knife sharpeners, I think when you look at it in context there was no risk to KKF in the process


----------

