# My fist time sharpening barber scissors



## DisconnectedAG (May 29, 2019)

This is technically not a kitchen knife sharpening post, but still.

My barber and friend gave me two pairs of his entry level barber scissors to sharpen. Both were on the low end of the price spectrum (I'm guessing around £1-200) and both were totally busted. Chips, lack of alignment on the blades, catching along the blade.

I have sharpened knives for about two years now, but have never done barber scissors before, and had done as much research as I could on this. YouTube was not helpful. I found so much garbage advice that even I, having done no scissors before could see it was not helpful. So I had to rely on my (very limited) experience with knife sharpening and theory to try to do this. Luckily, I had very low stakes as both of these scissors were throw aways and my mate really didn't care if I totally ruined them, it was a gift of practice for me.

One thing I knew from reading was that it's easy to screw scissors up. Nobody said exactly how or why, but I took that to heart and started very slowly. Before I even thought about stones I disassembled and examined each pari of the scissors so that I understood exactly how the mechanism worked and how the alignment was set. My working theory was that good barber scissors are (I'm simplifying, but for the sake of simily) two sets of Debas screwed together with a hinge. Which meant that the same principles would apply to scissors as to high end single bevel blades (which I have not sharpened before, but at least there I could find awesome information from people like Jon at JKI and Korin's videos).

When time came for stones, I started out on a 3k brick. I flattened it before, as the Uraoshi on scissors is very thin and preserving the geometry was the key priority. I took it very slowly and was wiping the blade I was working on every couple of passes to make sure I was removing metal gently and in the right place (sharpie was applied at a couple of points).

I wasn't getting good results on the 3k though, and I realised that I had to go down in grit. I re-started the process on a Naniwa Chosera 1.5k to remove the chips and irregularity in the blade. I was surprised to see that I had to use more pressure than I thought on this step. Scissor metal is very hard, much harder than even AS knife steel. I've never done razors, but can imagine it's something like this. It's also stainless, so you get that stainless sharpening feel with less pleasurable feedback.

Once I had a clean and even surface, I moved on to the Cleancut 4k stone for first polishing. I was using very light pressure here, and going back and forth between the bevel side and the Uraoshi to make sure that I wouldn't mess things up. Again, cleaning the blade every couple of passes to make sure things were going in the right direction and that I had a good bevel and clean uraoshi developing. Final polishing was done on a Shapton Pro 8k. I would have liked to have something higher for the end, but that's all I had at hand and I figured it would create a fairly polished surface. 

Repeat on each side, of course.

The end result was not perfect, but the scissors went from not going through anything to at least cutting tissue paper very easily. The end result can be seen here: https://www.instagram.com/p/ByBhQebHXi8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Just wanted to share, as nobody I know cares about sharpening, but this was a very satisfying process and piece of work and I learned a lot.


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## WildBoar (May 29, 2019)

Dave Martell started out sharpening shears, and has written a little about the process in the past. So you are in very good company!


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## DisconnectedAG (May 29, 2019)

WildBoar said:


> Dave Martell started out sharpening shears, and has written a little about the process in the past. So you are in very good company!


Thanks, will look for it!


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## gogogo545 (May 29, 2019)

I thought about sharpening my scissors too!
Wonderful guide to how. You unhinged it before u sharpen it right?


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## Dave Martell (May 29, 2019)

The toughest thing (I know of) to sharpen well are Japanese convex hair shears. Took me years of screwing them up to get just OK at doing them. There's just a ton of things to screw up on and so many variables that make them a ***** to deal with.


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## Dave Martell (May 29, 2019)

I can't write down everything about sharpening hair shears but here's some basic info on testing hair shears post-sharpening that might help...



1. *The Tissue Test (dry)*

Take a single ply sheet of tissue paper and allow it to free hang from your non-cutting hand. _*Note - You’ll most likely have to separate a multi-layered tissue to do this._

Try cutting the tissue. The shears should cut a straight line all the way to the tip without folding the tissue or pulling at the tip. If your shears passed this step then go onto step #2.


2. *The Tissue Test (wet)*

Take a single ply sheet of tissue paper and allow it to free hang from your non-cutting hand. Squirt this tissue paper with water from a squirt bottle. The tissue paper should be completely wet and still unfolded hanging open in a single ply form. Try cutting the tissue. The shears should cut a straight line all the way to the tip without folding the tissue or pulling at the tip. If your shears passed this step go onto step #3.


3. *Human* *Hair (Real Hair)*

For bevel edge shears use dry hair.

For convex edge shears use wet hair.

Take some (real – human) hair between your fingers of your free hand as if you were going to cut the hair as a stylist would. Comb the hair like they do, leaving exposed about ½” or so for the cut. Try cutting the hair slowly. The hair should not run away from you or slide out of the shears uncut. The hair should stay put and the shear should severe the hair with ease. If the shears passed this portion try cutting the hair again but go faster with the speed of the cut as an experienced stylist would do. Once again, the hair should not slide but remain still and easily be severed.



If you made it this far then the shears are sharp and should meet the expectations of the most discriminating hairstylist. If your shears didn’t pass any one of these tests then you might as well start over as they likely won’t cut hair as they’re expected to. Something didn’t go right and you need to find out what that is.


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## Knife2meatu (May 29, 2019)

Do both "flat" faces of the such shears make contact against each other along their entire length, when closed?

Or are they curved toward each other in such a manner that they mostly make contact at only one point, which is also where the cutting happens at that moment?

Hopefully I've put that into words in manner somewhat clearer than mud.


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## Dave Martell (May 29, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> Do both "flat" faces of the such shears make contact against each other along their entire length, when closed?
> 
> Or are they curved toward each other in such a manner that they mostly make contact at only one point, which is also where the cutting happens at that moment?
> 
> Hopefully I've put that into words in manner somewhat clearer than mud.




The blades are curved and ground into a twisted fashion where only one exact point touches along the cutting edge at a time but the ride (inside the pivot area) touches to allow a smooth motion. 


Here are the insides of two (cheap-o) convex shears:


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## Dave Martell (May 29, 2019)

*1.* *Convex Edge (Japanese style)*

Sometimes referred to as either "clamshell" or "razor edge". This is the most frequently found style of shears being used by about 90% of all stylists today. They have a great smooth feel to their action and perform superbly on wet hair. They take a lot more knowledge, equipment, and patience, to sharpen correctly. It's very easy to make these shears worse than they ever could be simply by trying to sharpen them. Often times, convex shears are sharpened incorrectly by someone who either doesn't know how to or simply just doesn't care. One single sharpening job, done incorrectly, can remove 60% or more from the lifespan of the shear. Convex shears can be sharpened between 10 and 20 times before needing replacement. These shears should only be used on *wet* hair.



*2.* *Bevel Edge (German style)*

This is the style found mostly (today) in barber shops rather than salons. Some stylists do keep a pair of bevel edge shears on hand for certain cuts and/or for back-ups. Bevel edge shears that are found in salons are often of a much higher quality than their cousin “the barbering scissor”. For the most part, bevel edged shears are less expensive than convex ground shears. Sometimes, these shears will be found with one blade sharpened normally while the other will be corrugated (serrated). This is done to help grab the hair to prevent it from sliding (or pushing) as the cut is made. Bevel edge shears are sharpened to a more obtuse (edge) angle than convex shears are. Because of this, the sharpening job will often last much longer than a sharpening job done on a pair of convex shears. The edge, of a bevel edged shear, is simply more durable in design than the edge of a convex shear. However, the tradeoff comes in that it’s less sharp than the convex shear is. Bevel edge shears can be used on either wet or dry hair.


See the picture below for a basic comparison between convex and bevel ground edges.






You can see, in the above picture, that the bevel edge is sharpened similar to a normal pair of scissors (chisel/knife edge). The convex edge is sharpened to a razor edge...literally.


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## Knife2meatu (May 30, 2019)

@Dave Martell Hey, what d'you know, the like button is back just in time!

I wonder, what marks the transition from the Ride Line to the Edge? Or do both coexist at points along the blade beyond a certain distance from the Ride?

Which parts can be understood to be on a single plane, relative to each other? I assume the Ride section is on a plane. I further assume the edge cannot be on that same plane given that you say the blades are curved into a twist. Is the spine co-planar to either of these?


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## Dave Martell (May 30, 2019)

I'm not sure that I can answer you directly since you're talking more intelligent than I think...LOL

But maybe in simpler terms I could say..... 

The blades are bowed away from each other.

They have an arced edge that begins at the ride area and extends to the tip, often referred to as the radius. 

The blades are also convex ground but only above the ride area.

All those things create a blade that is not straight along it's edge, it has a twist to it that becomes apparent when sharpening.


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## Knife2meatu (May 30, 2019)

Damned scissors! Why must all my attempts at sharpening them result in failure!


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## DisconnectedAG (May 30, 2019)

gogogo545 said:


> I thought about sharpening my scissors too!
> Wonderful guide to how. You unhinged it before u sharpen it right?


Yes, for the ones I had at least, you have to take them apart or you'll introduce an angle into he inside and the alignment will be ruined I think.


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## DisconnectedAG (May 30, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> I'm not sure that I can answer you directly since you're talking more intelligent than I think...LOL
> 
> But maybe in simpler terms I could say.....
> 
> ...



Thanks for the huge wealth of information Dave and everyone else 

Dave, I think I understand the point about the twisting of the blades, but how on earth to you sharpen that then? Or is it special tools only? As you clearly can't grind the inside flat, like I did or you'll ruin the geometry.


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## Dave Martell (May 30, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> Dave, I think I understand the point about the twisting of the blades, but how on earth to you sharpen that then? Or is it special tools only? As you clearly can't grind the inside flat, like I did or you'll ruin the geometry.




What's commonly done when "honing the ride line"....

The inside edge must have an absolutely (perfect) smooth (honed) complete ride line going down it’s entire length. This line creates a path for the opposing blade to ride across as it's being closed. Without the ride line, the convex edge would quickly wear itself down in no time. The ride line is easily formed due to the hollow ground shape of the inside of the blade.


The ride is the area that wraps around the pivot where the blades actually touch one another throughout their range of motion. The ride line is the area (all along but) directly behind the edge (on the inside of the blade) where the edges contact (or ride over) each other while the shears are being opened and closed. The smoothness of the ride is essential to the feeling of the shears’ action. The smoothness of the ride line is essential to the level of sharpness of the edge, the longevity of the edge, and the smooth slicing feeling that’s desired from the cut. The creation of the ride line is such an important part of shear sharpening that without doing this properly; hairstylist shears (especially convex ground shears) will not work as designed.


A waterstone is what’s most often recommended for performing this task. I prefer to use Shapton’s Pro Series waterstones as they’re well suited for the task. They cut faster than other waterstones of similar grit size, the finish that they apply to the shear is great, and they stay flat for a long time which is essential here.

I use 1000x, 5000x, and 8000x grit waterstones to create ride lines. You won’t want to go any lower than a 1000x stone as this would be too aggressive for the inside of a shear’s blade. However, you can go as high up as you desire (in grit sizes) because the finer the scratch pattern, the smoother the feel of the shear’s movement will be. 

Also note that this is the inside edge you're working on.

I start out shear sharpening by creating the rides and ride lines first and then I go back to them throughout the sharpening process. One reason for doing this step first is that I want to ensure that I’m starting out with a perfectly flat (and smooth) ride and ride line prior to creating the edge. This is just like flattening the back of a chisel prior to sharpening it’s face.


For undamaged ride lines I start out with a 5000x waterstone. Use a 1000x stone only if the blade is nicked on the inside edge. Then go back up to the 5000x stone and proceed from there.

The following should be done in an “edge trailing” or “stropping” motion *only* unless you’re attempting to remove an edge nick to which you could then use a back and forth motion on the stone. Once the nick is removed, return to the edge trailing motion for the rest of this procedure.






To begin, lay the blade down (on the stone) onto it’s inside surface. Do this in such a way that the blade is at a 45 deg angle to the length of the stone’s face. This will allow you to contact the stone along the entire ride and ride line. It’s important to have the *entire* ride and ride line contacting the stone during this step.


Draw the blade down the stone (top to bottom), applying about 3lbs. of downward pressure onto the blade. This pressure will take out (or flatten out) the bow from the middle of the blade ensuring that the entire (inside edge) length is being honed by the stone at the same time. Make sure that you apply this downward pressure evenly to the tip, middle, and pivot area of the blade.


When you reach the bottom of the stone – stop - lift the blade up and off the stone, and check to see what parts of the blade are being hit and what’s not. Repeat this over again, applying more pressure in those parts of the blade that aren’t being hit by the stone than those parts that are. Repeat as necessary while checking your results frequently. You’ll want to remember to do as little to the inside of blades as necessary. You’ll continue to do this until a ride line has been created all the way from the tip, down the entire edge, and around the bottom of the pivot (or ride) area. This is essential for creating the edge and for achieving a smooth action. 



Never assume that the presence of a ride line means that you don’t need to create a new one yourself. Always create *your* ride line when sharpening if *you* want to achieve the best results possible.



Repeat these steps on the other blade.



Now the shear blades are ready to be sharpened.


Here are some notes on ride lines....





*
*


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## Dave Martell (May 30, 2019)

For sharpening the outside of the convex hair shear most pro sharpeners use a flat hone. Some flat hones allow for proper sharpening of the twist in the hair shear blade and some don't.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fla...2cPiAhWGpFkKHaE7AFsQ_AUIDygC&biw=1024&bih=678


My choice is to free hand sharpen on a flat hone. I don't like the restrictions of the clamp/arms that come on most machines although the arm/clamp can be helpful for sharpening barbering shears and other shear types with straight edges.


This company makes, or used to make (?), what they refer to as a torsional edge clamp/arm which sharpens the twist on shears. You can see the motion needed to sharpen these shears in this demo....


Here's their explanation of torsional edges...
https://www.kudasharpeningsystems.com/torsionaledge


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## DisconnectedAG (May 30, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> What's commonly done when "honing the ride line"....
> 
> The inside edge must have an absolutely (perfect) smooth (honed) complete ride line going down it’s entire length. This line creates a path for the opposing blade to ride across as it's being closed. Without the ride line, the convex edge would quickly wear itself down in no time. The ride line is easily formed due to the hollow ground shape of the inside of the blade.
> 
> ...


Dave, this is so awesomely kind. Thank you very much! I'm glad to see that I seem to have been doing things mostly as you describe. I started on a Chosera 1.5k and my progress was maybe 70% of the above guide, just going by what made sense to me. I didn't do the direction of the ride polishing right, as I was just going back and forward. Will learn that for next time.

When you say the backside is sharpened on a hone, is that different from still using warerstones? I will have to look into this. 

Huge thanks again for all the info. This is pure gold.


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## Dave Martell (May 30, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> When you say the backside is sharpened on a hone, is that different from still using warerstones? I will have to look into this.




Are you asking about the outside of the blade, the edge?


BTW, seems like you did a pretty good job for just winging it, congrats!


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## streak (May 30, 2019)

Great discussion. Just this weekend I sharpened up a few pairs of scissors that were discarded by a dental practice who replaced them with new ones.
I had some sutures in my leg that I wanted to remove and wanted to make sure that the very tip of the scissors was sharp enough to cut them once lifted with the tweezers.
Worked out very well.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 1, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> Are you asking about the outside of the blade, the edge?
> 
> 
> BTW, seems like you did a pretty good job for just winging it, congrats!



I mean the outside edge, the convex one. I have probably ruined the proper convexity (again, I'm lucky that I have scissors that are risk free). 

Re results, thanks, a mix between analysis and luck. Will work more on them using your guide, especially to refine the ride line and see if it improves. They did not pass the wet tissue test, unfortunately, just the dry one. 

Testing is a huge pain, because they are lefty scissors, on top of everything else. I'm also thinking to test finishing on a hard Belgian blue natural


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## Knife2meatu (Jun 1, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> What's commonly done when "honing the ride line"....
> 
> The inside edge must have an absolutely (perfect) smooth (honed) complete ride line going down it’s entire length. This line creates a path for the opposing blade to ride across as it's being closed. Without the ride line, the convex edge would quickly wear itself down in no time. The ride line is easily formed due to the hollow ground shape of the inside of the blade.
> 
> [...]



So, when setting the ride line, the ride and ride line can be made to both make contact simultaneously and in their totality against the flat stone, albeit perhaps with some pressure applied at both ends in the center being needed... Is that right? If so, I am thinking that the ride and ride line must all be on a single flat plane when flattened against the stone.

Also, just to be clear, the flat ride line is meant to extend all the way to the edge, correct? So, in a sense, the ride line is the inside bevel of the edge?

edit: Scissors confuse me.


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## Dave Martell (Jun 1, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> So, when setting the ride line, the ride and ride line can be made to both make contact simultaneously and in their totality against the flat stone, albeit perhaps with some pressure applied at both ends being needed... Is that right? If so, I am thinking that the ride and ride line must all be on a single flat plane when flattened against the stone.
> 
> Also, just to be clear, the flat ride line is meant to extend all the way to the edge, correct? So, in a sense, the ride line is the inside bevel of the edge?




Yes, the ride line is the inside edge - 0 deg

No the ride line isn't exactly on the same plane as the ride (pivot area), well it is in some sense, but practically speaking if you sharpen it this way you'll see wide and narrow sections appear, especially wide at the tips. What we do with the stones is to start with tips hanging off the stone end (while applying downward pressure at the ride) and do a pull stroke that draws the tip over the end and onto the stones face for just a bit. It's tough to explain but easy to see in person and you'll quickly know when you're too aggressive.


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## Dave Martell (Jun 1, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> I mean the outside edge, the convex one. I have probably ruined the proper convexity (again, I'm lucky that I have scissors that are risk free).
> 
> Re results, thanks, a mix between analysis and luck. Will work more on them using your guide, especially to refine the ride line and see if it improves. They did not pass the wet tissue test, unfortunately, just the dry one.
> 
> Testing is a huge pain, because they are lefty scissors, on top of everything else. I'm also thinking to test finishing on a hard Belgian blue natural




Not passing the wet tissue test is common but you still might be OK since you might only just need to adjust the tension and tips....


*Reassembly/Tension Adjustment
*
Note - Re-install the pivot screw in the same fashion to which it came apart taking care not to allow the blades to touch one another *at all* beyond the pivot. They should be assembled in an "X" configuration while open (not closed).

Tighten the screw only to the point that the shear blades have a little tension and then back off on the screw slightly. 

Close the blades now, while applying pressure with the opposite hand, on both blade tips ensuring they are kept apart. At this point the shears are re-assembled and require adjusting.

If you are re-assembling beveled edge shears you will need to remove the tiny burr that may still be left from the sharpening process. If present, it will be very weak and barely holding on at this point and very little pressure will be required to remove it.

Open and close these (beveled edge) shears while applying the slightest bit of pressure to bring the blades together. You will feel where the edges catch each other. This is the burr you’re feeling. Now “crunch” the burr away by closing the shear while still maintaining this slight pressure or lightly cut single ply dry tissue paper. This technique should be done very-very gently. You may have to do this in several places along the edge before you have completely removed the burr. Once you cannot feel the blades catch one another, then the burr is gone, and you can move onto adjusting and testing.

To adjust the shears you will hold them in one hand with the tips pointing straight up in the air, using your free hand to lift the smaller/lighter blade up towards the ceiling until you get it to 90deg. from the other blade.

Allow this blade to fall down towards the other blade. Note where the blade tip stopped. It should fall within 1/2" of the other blade. If it is too close, then the shears are to loose and require tightening of the screw. If it doesn't get to within 1/2" then loosen the screw, as it’s too tight.

After adjusting the screw, each and every time, wiggle the blades (while the shears are open) against one another in a kind of tensioning movement. This will help to seat the screw and any washers used. Repeat the adjustment test, screw adjusting, and blade wiggling until you've got the blades to fall right where they should be repeatedly.

**Note*_ – Blade tension is very important to the shears ability to cut correctly and to the reduction of operator hand fatigue. _


Now that the blade tension has been adjusted correctly, the shears require lubrication.


Drop some oil onto the screw and into the pivot section. Wipe some oil up onto the entire inside edge (ride line specifically) of the blades. Work the shears open and closed a few times and then remove any excess oil from the shears. Stylists don’t appreciate slimy shears for some reason. 

After oiling the shears, ensure that the correct blade tension still remains. It may have changed and may need to be corrected through re-adjusting. Make sue you do this prior to testing.

After lubrication, close the shears and inspect them to make sure that they operate correctly and have no rough edges (anywhere on the shears) that may be felt by the stylist. Correct as necessary.

You’ll want to ensure that the bumper (or silencer is in place and working) and that the tips don’t have any space between them. This space will often be found as a natural result of the sharpening process but it must be dealt with or the hair will be pulled/tugged when the cut is made. Use your fingernail to check if there is any space present between the blades. If your fingernail can slide in between them, even the slightest little bit, then you must correct this situation.


The easiest way to do this is to trim a little material off of the bumper (silencer). This will allow the blades to come into contact with each other just slightly. If that doesn’t work then you should remove a little material from the very tips of both blades - at the same time! Do this with the blades closed and stay away from the edges. Make sure you smooth the tips over and polish them after doing this step.

Another thing to check for is to ensure that the blades don’t close too far or cross over one another. You’ll know this is happening by looking to see that an edge crosses over the opposite blade exposing itself near the tip. This can be a dangerous situation for the hairstylist, their customer, and for the shears themselves. This can happen when a lot of material has been removed from the blades and/or the bumper is too small (trimmed too much). Correct this situation by installing a new bumper and/or by removing some material from the tips just beyond the portion of the blade that’s overlapping. Obviously you would want to try the least aggressive method (bumper replacement) first before attempting to grind away metal from the tips to correct this problem.


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## Knife2meatu (Jun 1, 2019)

@Dave Martell I'm not certain, but I suspect this might be the most comprehensive and detailed explanation of this skill available online; certainly the very best I've ever seen.

Thanks so much.


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## Dave Martell (Jun 1, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> @Dave Martell I'm not certain, but I suspect this might be the most comprehensive and detailed explanation of this skill available online; certainly the very best I've ever seen.
> 
> Thanks so much.




I'm glad you like it and I hope someone can use the info some day.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 2, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> Not passing the wet tissue test is common but you still might be OK since you might only just need to adjust the tension and tips....
> 
> 
> *Reassembly/Tension Adjustment
> ...


Dave, another user said this and was not certain, but I've done A LOT of research before I started on the scissors and the info you've shared here is by far the best information available online today. I am hugely grateful as this is so incredibly useful. I also take a small bit of pride that my noob post helped bring this about.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 2, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> I'm glad you like it and I hope someone can use the info some day.


I have more barber scissors incoming, so that some day is quite soon.


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## HugSeal (Jun 2, 2019)

I recently got fed up with the crappy scissors we have at home so I have purchased a bunch of old scissors in varying condition from the ebay equivalent here in Sweden.

It's a bunch of old scandinavian brands (Fiskars, Eskilstuna, etc.) and a kai s-90, the plan is to go over them and see if I can restore them. It's mostly a little hobby project to try to learn how sissors work but hopefully I'll get some decent scissors to use at home out of it.

They aren't barber scissors but I think I can use a lot of this information to help me with the restorations.

But the whole point of this is to simply say thank you! This thread is a treasure trove of information that I am looking forward to using.


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## Dave Martell (Jun 2, 2019)

I know this is not related to the thread but I'm feeling nostalgic with all this shear sharpening talk so I thought I'd share my little in-salon sharpening cart I made....































I started out sharpening in my van but stylists don't really like to hand over their expensive shears and watch them walk out the door so I made this cart that I would wheel into the salons and park in a corner. I had everything I needed right there on hand and I would generate additional business as others got comfortable with me.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 2, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> I know this is not related to the thread but I'm feeling nostalgic with all this shear sharpening talk so I thought I'd share my little in-salon sharpening cart I made....
> 
> View attachment 54179
> View attachment 54180
> ...


Wow, that's awesome! love the 3 stones side by side. Very neat.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 3, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> I know this is not related to the thread but I'm feeling nostalgic with all this shear sharpening talk so I thought I'd share my little in-salon sharpening cart I made....
> 
> View attachment 54179
> View attachment 54180
> ...


Dave, what's all the big machinery on the cart? It looks like something out of an alchemy workshop.. And the hose on the back indicates that water comes in to something, I guess?


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## Dave Martell (Jun 3, 2019)

The box looking machine is a flathone. It's a reversible variable speed 6" magnetic disk with an arm/clamp. It's a very basic model, you should see some of the more elaborate ones. 

The hose on the back is actually wire, an extension cord.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 3, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> The box looking machine is a flathone. It's a reversible variable speed 6" magnetic disk with an arm/clamp. It's a very basic model, you should see some of the more elaborate ones.
> 
> The hose on the back is actually wire, an extension cord.


I had to youtube to understand what that was. Sadly I'm a dirty amateur, so I will keep to doing everything freehand for now. Have just ordered a Belgian Blue finishing stone that I will try for the end of the progression after the 8k, and then we'll see what my barber mate says.


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## HugSeal (Jun 5, 2019)

Got some of the scissors cleaned up with some steel wool and polishing, there are still some spots on them but I don't wanna bring out something more aggressive and risk removing too much material when I hae ni idea what I am doing ^^ It only seems to be beautyspots too and I can live with a few spots.

The big one is quite long (Leatherman Wave for size comparison)

The medium sized one didn't close fully so I went with the fast and easy solution of simply dremeling away a bit at the handle and it worked fine 

The set on them seems okay so the next step should just be to sharpen them when I find some time between the studies and I'll see how that goes.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 5, 2019)

HugSeal said:


> Got some of the scissors cleaned up with some steel wool and polishing, there are still some spots on them but I don't wanna bring out something more aggressive and risk removing too much material when I hae ni idea what I am doing ^^ It only seems to be beautyspots too and I can live with a few spots.
> 
> The big one is quite long (Leatherman Wave for size comparison)
> 
> ...


Nice job on the rust removal, man. I would definitely suggest starting with the scissor that comes apart, as that will be much easier to sharpen. Also, I note that you're probably Swedish.  Hej hej.


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## HugSeal (Jun 5, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> Nice job on the rust removal, man. I would definitely suggest starting with the scissor that comes apart, as that will be much easier to sharpen. Also, I note that you're probably Swedish.  Hej hej.



Halli Hallå!

They all come apart, I just happened to turn them the wrong way when I took the photo so the screw doesn't show 

I have a few that doesn't come apart though, how does harpening them work? If you try to sharpen a bit on the backside to flatten and remove the burr, don't you risk having the edges not meet?


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## RefGent (Jun 5, 2019)

HugSeal said:


> Halli Hallå!
> 
> They all come apart, I just happened to turn them the wrong way when I took the photo so the screw doesn't show
> 
> I have a few that doesn't come apart though, how does harpening them work? If you try to sharpen a bit on the backside to flatten and remove the burr, don't you risk having the edges not meet?



Generally, I try to only just remove the burr on the back with those type. One stroke just to get the burr and then back to the bevel side. I'll even do the slightest angle to only get at the burr. If you do it gently it won't ruin the contact alignment.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 6, 2019)

I can report that my friend used the first pair professionally today and was happy with the performance. The ride was smooth, sharpness was satisfactory and performance did not deteriorate after initial use.


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## Dave Martell (Jun 6, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> I can report that my friend used the first pair professionally today and was happy with the performance. The ride was smooth, sharpness was satisfactory and performance did not deteriorate after initial use.



Awesome!


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## HugSeal (Jun 8, 2019)

Got the first one sharpened. The ride line wasn't perfectly even and got a bit wider near the top and it has probbly been sharpened with something earlier since near the end of the bevel toward the handle the edge dipped down and was a bit below the line of the rest of the scissor so the part closest to the pivot was tough to sharpen.

But it cuts single ply tissue paper dry or wet, it cuts hair and the cutting feels smooth. So that is mroe than good enough for me


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## ian (Dec 16, 2020)

I was doing some scissors today that someone gave me and I think I may have f’ed up the ride line. They’re old and were all rusted and I didn’t really think twice about the fact that they were different from the house scissors that I’ve done for a couple people before. I’ve only done scissors a few times.

Anyway, I started by just sharpening the bevels a bit and deburring on the flat side, but the action was still horrible, so I removed some steel on the flat side with a 1k. Most of it cuts well now, but the tip doesn’t cut. If I try to cut paper towel it just goes between the scissors when it’s within 1cm of the tip.

Anyway, only then did I find this thread and read @Dave Martell’s awesome advice above. Anyway, here are some pics. How do I fix this?










Second pic looks ok to me, first one less ok.


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## Dave Martell (Dec 17, 2020)

Some hair shears (like cheap Japanese/Chinese models as well as German barbering scissors) don't have true ride lines so when we sharpen these we have to leave the inside of the blades alone, treating them very much like household scissors. 

When I came across scissors in this condition I'd refuse them because I've never been able to fix this situation. 

Don't feel too bad as I've done this to shears myself, not knowing how to deal with them, and I'd bet just about every pro shear sharpener has done so at one time or another.

Having said all that, I'd bet that they can be fixed by someone who knows more than I do. I'd guess that regrinding the inside hollow and setting the blades (by hammering the twist into them) to get the blades to interact correctly would fix this. Like I said though, that's just a guess on my part, way above my skillset.


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## ian (Dec 17, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> Some hair shears (like cheap Japanese/Chinese models as well as German barbering scissors) don't have true ride lines so when we sharpen these we have to leave the inside of the blades alone, treating them very much like household scissors.
> 
> When I came across scissors in this condition I'd refuse them because I've never been able to fix this situation.
> 
> ...



Thanks! That's helpful, if disheartening. My initial inclination was to try to sharpen the inside of them again, but sharpen the tip less, so they'd make better contact there. But probably that would just make it worse. Maybe I should just give up then and try to make it right with the client. Hopefully these weren't terrible rusty old scissors that the person's grandfather had given them on their deathbed.

That said, it's just the last cm or so that's a problem... otherwise they pass the three tests you outlined above no problem.


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## swarfrat (Dec 17, 2020)

Not hair shears, but it shows the pure craftsmanship, that the blade geometry isn't set with some machine jig but with an expert's whack.

I'd also love to have the title "master putter together."


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## ian (Dec 28, 2020)

I'm confused again. Do basically all scissors function in the way described above? It seems like for the most part the inside is always hollow ground. These crappy plastic ones are hollow ground, for instance:






And so are these:






With these two (and many others), I don’t see a visible ride line, though. Perhaps the concavity starts out all the way to the edge?

Question) Do you approach all scissors the same way, starting with the ride line? Or are there some where you just do the bevel, deburr somehow, and are done with it? How do you tell which is which? Also, while I’m asking questions, what do you do about that blue knife above where the plastic thing sticks up in the middle of the ride? I’m assuming I just don’t really do much to the inside.


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