# If you could only use one type of knife steel for the rest of your life, what would it be?



## Olav S Jonas (Aug 12, 2019)

The title pretty much sums it up. What type of steel would you personally choose if you could only use one type of steel for all your kitchen knives forever?


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## Elliot (Aug 12, 2019)

Probably Iwasaki “Spicy Swedish.” This is a tough one, though.


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## Olav S Jonas (Aug 12, 2019)

Elliot said:


> Probably Iwasaki “Spicy Swedish.” This is a tough one, though.


Why? Because you can sharpen it really razor sharp, or edge retention, or durability, or all of the above?


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## Elliot (Aug 12, 2019)

Olav S Jonas said:


> Why? Because you can sharpen it really razor sharp, or edge retention, or durability, or all of the above?



A combination. I find that it is relatively easy to sharpen/maintain, very durable and chip resistant and also gets very sharp. 

That being said, this could also be that the two shops most famous for using this (Shigefusa and Heiji) are also masters. So, while it complicates the question, the heat treat and quality of the Smith is likely a substantive factor in all this. Not to derail, but the chorus of those saying (I agree, BTW) that Toyamanabe heat treat of Blue 2 is tops or the TFTFTFTFTF folks could have a lot to say.


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## panda (Aug 12, 2019)

heiji semi-stainless, feels and sharpens like carbon but doesnt rust and has good retention. it's a workhorse steel.


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## bahamaroot (Aug 12, 2019)

I don't have to make that choice so I won't.


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## panda (Aug 12, 2019)

bahamaroot said:


> I don't have to make that choice so I won't.


what a fun answer. why even reply? lol


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## Olav S Jonas (Aug 12, 2019)

panda said:


> heiji semi-stainless, feels and sharpens like carbon but doesnt rust and has good retention. it's a workhorse steel.


Sounds fantastic. Is it generally really pricey though?


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## panda (Aug 12, 2019)

Olav S Jonas said:


> Sounds fantastic. Is it generally really pricey though?


no, heiji ordered directly is an absolute bargain. it takes 4 months for him to make it though.


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## Godslayer (Aug 12, 2019)

White #1 , crazy simple carbon steel, sharpens in seconds, forms a burr in no time and takes a beautiful edge. Basically it's the easiest to sharpen and keeps an edge fairly well.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Aug 12, 2019)

Probably aeb-l. Easier to maintain, easy to sharpen, relatively tough stainless.


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## DevinT (Aug 12, 2019)

Stainless clad PD-1

Hoss


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## GorillaGrunt (Aug 12, 2019)

A2


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## lemeneid (Aug 13, 2019)

Elliot said:


> A combination. I find that it is relatively easy to sharpen/maintain, very durable and chip resistant and also gets very sharp.
> 
> That being said, this could also be that the two shops most famous for using this (Shigefusa and Heiji) are also masters. So, while it complicates the question, the heat treat and quality of the Smith is likely a substantive factor in all this. Not to derail, but the chorus of those saying (I agree, BTW) that Toyamanabe heat treat of Blue 2 is tops or the TFTFTFTFTF folks could have a lot to say.


I don’t really like the edge stability on my Toyama, it can be very chippy when there is no microbevel.

TF on the other hand, best heat treat hands down. Be it their White#1 or AS steels. Never chipped on me ever even with a super acute angle I put on it, amazing edge retention and sharpness. If I could, I would buy blanks from TF and get someone to grind and put proper F+F on them.


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## Elliot (Aug 13, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> I don’t really like the edge stability on my Toyama, it can be very chippy when there is no microbevel.
> 
> TF on the other hand, best heat treat hands down. Be it their White#1 or AS steels. Never chipped on me ever even with a super acute angle I put on it, amazing edge retention and sharpness. If I could, I would buy blanks from TF and get someone to grind and put proper F+F on them.



I won’t argue with the Denka. I have one and it’s an absolutely incredible piece. Haven’t gotten a Maboroshi yet, but it may be time.


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## Chefget (Aug 13, 2019)

52100


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## Xenif (Aug 13, 2019)

Damn hard question, but I think Heiji SemiStainless wins by a hair for me for the most balance between easy sharpening, edge retention, reactivity, etc. 
Runner up be Hinoura White#1 and Shig's Iwasaki


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## mack (Aug 13, 2019)

14C28N. Or a simple C75. 

Mack.


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## panda (Aug 13, 2019)

Xenif said:


> Damn hard question, but I think Heiji SemiStainless wins by a hair for me for the most balance between easy sharpening, edge retention, reactivity, etc.
> Runner up be Hinoura White#1 and Shig's Iwasaki


what is hinoura white1 like? i wasnt a fan of his white2, too glassy.


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 13, 2019)

TF W#1 on a maboroshi. Fantastic edge retention, like butter on the stones and great edge stability even ground at acute angles as lemeneid suggests. TFTFTFTF
The Nashiji line W#1 which is made from prelaminated bar stock with a little less carbon content in the core steel doesn't hold the edge quite so well as the Mab.


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## F-Flash (Aug 13, 2019)

145sc


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## Matus (Aug 13, 2019)

I could live with many steels. But in general carbon steel preferably with some alloying elements like blue, 1.2442, etc. would work for me. Or even A2 or similar. If I would be forced towards stainless, than I would go with something simple with finer grain (AEB-L, etc). As always, HT plays the central role.


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## chinacats (Aug 13, 2019)

Unobtainium...


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 13, 2019)

Kryptonite!

That’s a steel, right?!


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## ian (Aug 13, 2019)

Blue steel, but the one from Zoolander.


Seriously, my blue 2 knives (Wat/Shiraki) are my favorites, but this may say more about my limited collection than anything else.


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## panda (Aug 13, 2019)

i will admit fujiwara white#1 is among my top 3 steels i have tried. the knife itself needs a lot of work but the heat treat is amazing.


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## captaincaed (Aug 13, 2019)

Vintage Sab, HRC 55. Just throw it at the honing rod for the win. Remember to hold the rod like a tennis racket, per G.Ramsay.


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## Chuckles (Aug 13, 2019)

I’d be fine with O1.


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## Olav S Jonas (Aug 13, 2019)

captaincaed said:


> Vintage Sab, HRC 55. Just throw it at the honing rod for the win. Remember to hold the rod like a tennis racket, per G.Ramsay.


Noooo, not like a teeeennis racket!


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## Barashka (Aug 13, 2019)

R2 .. because I know I'll get too lazy for carbon one day. Hap40 I will be too lazy to sharpen and vg10 or softer is too soft .. I guess I'm just picking HRC63 stainless ..


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## Michi (Aug 14, 2019)

Why, Valyrian steel, of course…


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## daddy yo yo (Aug 14, 2019)

DevinT said:


> Stainless clad PD-1
> 
> Hoss


If you say that, I need one! Anything available?


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## Xenif (Aug 14, 2019)

panda said:


> what is hinoura white1 like? i wasnt a fan of his white2, too glassy.


Oh then you probably wont like it too much its quite "glassy" I totally get what you mean. But at the same time de-burring is like deburring a waffer, I like the level of precision I can get on it. The edge retention is just phenomenal , easily out last every carbon Ive tried.


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## XooMG (Aug 14, 2019)

I have low standards so almost anything would be good. 1.2562 or aebl or cts-xhp or 420j2 or 1045... It's all the same.


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## Barmoley (Aug 14, 2019)

XooMG said:


> I have low standards so almost anything would be good. 1.2562 or aebl or cts-xhp or 420j2 or 1045... It's all the same.



I don't believe you

You say it is all the same, but I doubt you have 1045 type steel in your kitchen knives. Sure any steel that can be hardened can be used, but given a choice I think you'd pick something that is better suited for a kitchen knife. We are talking one type of steel forever, assuming we live that long....


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## Anton (Aug 14, 2019)

Chuckles said:


> I’d be fine with O1.


Stay with the classics right? Love that steel


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## panda (Aug 14, 2019)

Anton said:


> Stay with the classics right? Love that steel


i'm going back to classic japanese makers only, i got all the westerns out of my system. but everything ive heard about o1 indicates i would like that steel.


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## Chuckles (Aug 14, 2019)

I might be off but my understanding is that 01 is fairly similar to blue steel. I would say more like Blue #2 in my experience. I am sure somebody around here knows way better than me tho.


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## Chuckles (Aug 14, 2019)

I like the simpler steels for the long haul. You don’t have to be as picky about what stones you use. Whatever is around will make it work just fine.


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## riba (Aug 14, 2019)

Depending on the maker, I could live happily ever after with vg10


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## kayman67 (Aug 14, 2019)

I would keep first of all, any with a good handle, geometry, balance. Sometimes these are a lot harder to live with if not right (maybe even impossible to modify). Most steels with do the work with more or less maintenance.

To answer, if everything else would be right, R2/SG2/HSS offer a nice balance between everything.


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## GeneH (Aug 14, 2019)

chinacats said:


> Unobtainium...



By definition you cannot have that. What's your 2nd choice?


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## panda (Aug 14, 2019)

Chuckles said:


> I like the simpler steels for the long haul. You don’t have to be as picky about what stones you use. Whatever is around will make it work just fine.


same, very pure very few alloys


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## captaincaed (Aug 14, 2019)

Can anyone tell the difference between white/blue numbers? Why not just say white or blue categorically? 

I realize other steels don't necessarily sort into categories so nicely. Except for the excellent 420/440 series @XooMG referred to earlier.


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## Jville (Aug 14, 2019)

not quite enough experience with the heji semi stainless yet to say for sure, but if i had to i would take my chances with that. the kono ys seems right there with it though, but also not enough experience to really flush out the details. when it comes to carbon, i like the shig steel.


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## Ivang (Aug 14, 2019)

Tanakas r2.


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## GoodMagic (Aug 14, 2019)

52100 a la Burke triple quenched is my pick. Blue 2 is my second choice. W2 is my third ( I love a nice Hamon). These are the steels I use to make knives, and the knives I use daily are from these steels. Easy to heat treat, high hardness, durable edge, easy to maintain.


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## Eitan78 (Aug 14, 2019)

52100 mono steel, my favorite, for edge retention and a breeze to sharpen, not as reactive and very easy to maintain.


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## Chuckles (Aug 14, 2019)

captaincaed said:


> Can anyone tell the difference between white/blue numbers? Why not just say white or blue categorically?




Can you tell the difference between vanilla ice cream and French vanilla ice cream? Same basic flavor but one has a few extra ingredients. Try them a few times each and you will be able to tell them apart.


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## Elliot (Aug 14, 2019)

Eitan78 said:


> 52100 mono steel, my favorite, for edge retention and a breeze to sharpen, not as reactive and very easy to maintain.



Any maker in mind?


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## Eitan78 (Aug 14, 2019)

Elliot said:


> Any maker in mind?



Any maker really don’t matter, if the heat treat and grind is good.
Of the ones I used I can name 3 favorites.
Halcyon Forge, Comet and Tsourkan


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## parbaked (Aug 14, 2019)

My knife with the best performing steel is probably TF Maboroshi, but if I had to pick just one steel it would be well done 52100 (I have from Laseur and Shihan) because it's so tuff...

Edit: I could also easily live with the SKD from Yoshikane...


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## captaincaed (Aug 14, 2019)

Chuckles said:


> Can you tell the difference between vanilla ice cream and French vanilla ice cream? Same basic flavor but one has a few extra ingredients. Try them a few times each and you will be able to tell them apart.


Gotcha. Sounds like I need to experiment some more


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## BT11 (Aug 15, 2019)

52100, from both a maker, and a users perspective. It's a great no BS steel that lends itself to many different knife applications.
I do love the 1.2519 steel in my Halcyon blade as well.


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## kayman67 (Aug 15, 2019)

Quick question. I've seen a lot of hints towards O1. And I've seen a lot of D2 custom knives. Why so few desire/use A2? Seems like a much nicer steel for a knife. Will take a beautiful patina, great edge.


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## daizee (Aug 15, 2019)

AEB-L.
It has most of the performance of 1084/52100 and is stainless. You can run it really really hard (for a stainless).

Of course it would be hard for me to give up 1084 (or maybe 80CrV2) from a maker's perspective, because of the quick and easy heat-treat.

re: A2
awesome and a favorite steel. But is twice as tough at any given hardness and it will take a more acute edge angle. I could live with A2 quite happily, except if I HAD to pick ONLY ONE steel, I would pick AEB-L because stainless. (I do love A2)

O1 is great, but less great than all the other choices and has one of the most annoying heat-treats due to kiln AND oil. So you're either fighting decarb/regrind or hinky pouch-pull-quench problems. Unless you have a purged furnace. Hmmm.... But if you had all that, why not go with A2 or... or...

D2 has a narrow band of application to blades, IMO. Carbides too big, edge stability very low, overall toughness very low. Now if I were a punch-die maker...


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## jferreir (Aug 15, 2019)

Takeda AS or Takamura R2 -- I'd flip a coin to keep my conscience clean.


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## Barmoley (Aug 15, 2019)

I used to be all over A2, but I am a little disappointed in it after @Larrin testing. It is a good steel, but not as tough as I thought it would be. It still has better wear resistance and corrosion resistance than low alloy steels and is most likely tough enough, but for some reason I expected it to be tougher than something like 52100 or AEB-L, it doesn't seem to be. Also, O1 and 1095 have relatively low toughness and wear resistance, so it is difficult to recommend these over 52100 or AEB-L. I am really looking forward to Larrin's testing of 1.2519 and 1.2442 really curious to see where these fall relative to the others he already tested. CruForgeV looks like another interesting steel, I wonder why it is not being used more, seems like it would make a better knife at high hardness than 52100 at high hardness, so should be a good match for kitchen knives.

To stay somewhat on topic, out of steels I've tried and that are relatively easy to get in kitchen knives, I would have to pick AEB-L, slightly better in all categories than 52100 and stainless. Now, if someone starts making knives out of CruForgeV or NioMax becomes a reality and is all that it looks like it could be then I'll change my mind in a second


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## hennyville (Aug 15, 2019)

Yeah, all these steels....until 1.2442 reach the borders with USA.


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## RDalman (Aug 15, 2019)

15n20. Would work well for all edge applications I can imagine, works well with easy HT too. Also forgewelds so I could use it for axes if needed. High toughness and surprisingly high stain resistance from the nickel.


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## Koakuma (Aug 15, 2019)

All my favorite knives are Blue2 steel, so i have to go with Blue2 steel.


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## MontezumaBoy (Aug 16, 2019)

Just have to say it ... even if he 'kinda' disagrees .... DT in AEB-L ... love that combo ... but, in fairness, haven't tried the other ...


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## Customfan (Aug 16, 2019)

Depending on the blade, probably Blue #2


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## mattador (Aug 16, 2019)

52100, **** just works


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## Kippington (Aug 16, 2019)

*VG-10! *_*runs away*
_


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## Michi (Aug 16, 2019)

Kippington said:


> *VG-10! *_*runs away*
> _


That, or SLD. If I could have only one steel, I’d want it to be stainless.


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## daizee (Aug 16, 2019)

Agreed on A2, which is why it's second tier for me. Though in 3-4" belt knife I love it. Cuts like a demon.
CruForgeV is hard to get in a broad range of useful dimensions, apparently.


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## Elliot (Aug 16, 2019)

I think it would be really interesting to get a cross-section of user profile for those choosing a stainless/semi-stainless vs. carbon. Part of me thinks professionals may want a stainless just due to less upkeep, but then also home cooks (maybe not this cohort, but in general) probably don't care for knives very well. . . so maybe _*they*_ want stainless. OR, conversely, the exploration would be just a ****-show and nothing more than mental masturbation.


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## Barmoley (Aug 16, 2019)

Elliot said:


> I think it would be really interesting to get a cross-section of user profile for those choosing a stainless/semi-stainless vs. carbon. Part of me thinks professionals may want a stainless just due to less upkeep, but then also home cooks (maybe not this cohort, but in general) probably don't care for knives very well. . . so maybe _*they*_ want stainless. OR, conversely, the exploration would be just a ****-show and nothing more than mental masturbation.


With something like hard treated AEB-L it is very difficult to recommend a carbon instead. The usual benefits of carbon that make many pick it are ease of sharpening and that simple carbons get really sharp. AEB-L has these benefits too and at the same hardness seems to be better than, for example 52100, in every category. If we take that into consideration than it is hard to recommend a simple carbon over AEB-L. Now, there is a romantic, visual benefit to carbons in that they patina and as such feel more alive and ever changing, but this can be a plus or a minus depending on your point of view about what the blade should look like, stainless definitely has its place. Some carbons are also much easier to deferentially heat treat and heat treat in general, but I am still not clear of the benefit of differential heat treatment in a kitchen knife...


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## Elliot (Aug 16, 2019)

Barmoley said:


> With something like hard treated AEB-L it is very difficult to recommend a carbon instead. The usual benefits of carbon that make many pick it are ease of sharpening and that simple carbons get really sharp. AEB-L has these benefits too and at the same hardness seems to be better than, for example 52100, in every category. If we take that into consideration than it is hard to recommend a simple carbon over AEB-L. Now, there is a romantic, visual benefit to carbons in that they patina and as such feel more alive and ever changing, but this can be a plus or a minus depending on your point of view about what the blade should look like, stainless definitely has its place. Some carbons are also much easier to deferentially heat treat and heat treat in general, but I am still not clear of the benefit of differential heat treatment in a kitchen knife...



The romance is a major part of my reason for being curous. Being honest, even as a pretty decent home cook with a knife and stone obsession, my ability to really tell the difference between a lot of the steels is probably minimal. I would argue the same could be said for a lot of us (minus obvious things like patina formation vs. stainless).

So, I am working under the assumption, which could of course be right or wrong, that the ability for most of us to identify SKD from SLD from AEL from HD2 is minimal in practice.


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## YG420 (Aug 16, 2019)

DevinT said:


> Stainless clad PD-1
> 
> Hoss


The best!


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## Barmoley (Aug 16, 2019)

YG420 said:


> The best!


Agree, but Hoss cheated, that's at least 2 steels


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## YG420 (Aug 16, 2019)

Totally missed that lol


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## Tim Rowland (Aug 16, 2019)

if its all I can use and has to be a balance of toughness, edge retention, edge taking ability, ease to sharpen, ease of grinding both pre and post heat treat, and only mid level difficulty of heat treating. *52100* would be my all around pick.


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## inferno (Aug 16, 2019)

if i had to choose only 1??

well talking carbon then blue2 for sure. best carbon steel out there overall. 

talking SS i'd go all in on aus8... yes you read that right. why?

it gets sufficiently hard (above 60 when cryoed)
its quite wear resistant.
its quite stain resistant.
its gets very sharp.
its very easy/fast to sharpen.
it never chips out. not even microchips


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## rob (Aug 16, 2019)

Well, I'm going to go against the grain and choose stainless. If it has to last me the rest of my life i don't want to bother with carbon.

For stainless it would be a toss up between AEB-L, Ginsan or Damasteel, with Damasteel being my pick. 

Why, well it looks pretty, has great wear resistance, gets plenty sharp and isn't too difficult to sharpen.


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## GorillaGrunt (Aug 17, 2019)

It’s always hard to say how much of the performance is the steel, even when that encompasses heat treatment and forging. I picked A2 because a lot of the knives whose performance stands out to me are in a steel with an A2-like composition (Masashi VS1, Yoshikane SKD) or rumored to be such (Gengetsu SS, Heiji SS). I like how they sharpen and how they take and hold edges. But I haven’t tried, for instance, Dalman’s or Devin’s AEB-L. So one of the biggest variables is the individual’s collection/toolkit/range of knives used. For another example could I really say my favorite is SC145 since I’ve only experienced it as a single data point in a Raquin knife? It’s a hell of a knife but teasing out the characteristics pertaining only to the steel is beyond my level.


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## Barmoley (Aug 17, 2019)

The good thing is any of these steels would work fine as the only steel, we are splitting hairs here.


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## gman (Aug 17, 2019)

adamantium


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## Jon-cal (Aug 17, 2019)

White 1 for me


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 17, 2019)

Most of my knives are white steel mono & stainless clad. My favorite Yanagiba was white steel. All the hype on TF knives got a good deal on a TF hammer finish white #1. Really like it. 

Anybody's answer is valid. Stainless R2. User friendly, good edge retention, easy to sharpen. Not to mention you can get it very sharp similar to carbon.

Watanabe Blue #2 OK that's three of favorites just can't do one.


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## ThinMan (Aug 17, 2019)

Hattori Hanzo steel.


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## M1k3 (Aug 17, 2019)

Only 1 steel? Probably AEB-L, I also work in a kitchen. But only 1 steel is so boring!


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## CTKC (Aug 17, 2019)

For me, it would be Burke 52100 or Hinoura W2.

AS far as stainless, I have limited but good experience with AEB-L so understand the comments from fans. SG2 is probably my favorite stainless though.


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## Sergey Yakunin (Aug 19, 2019)

AEB-L


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## Nemo (Aug 19, 2019)

I would choose a maker, not a steel.


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## vitreous (Aug 20, 2019)

I haven't actually heard much about PD-1 and a quick search of the internet comes up fairly empty re. kitchen knives. Would someone be able to give me a quick run down?


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## BryceMorsley (Aug 20, 2019)

52100 for carbon. And rwl34 for stainless.


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## DevinT (Aug 20, 2019)

vitreous said:


> I haven't actually heard much about PD-1 and a quick search of the internet comes up fairly empty re. kitchen knives. Would someone be able to give me a quick run down?



The original alloy was made by Vasco called Vasco-wear which was cast/wrought. Lots of companies make a version of this steel, most are PM. PD-1 is made by Carpenter, cru-wear, z-wear are similar grades. 

This steel has highish wear resistance with highish toughness, very good balance of properties. Not stainless but not very reactive. It’s a good one. 

Hoss


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 20, 2019)

Using carbons in the working kitchen is where they are the best. Only wash & dry at end of shift. Cutting all day a patina is set quickly. I had masamoto's last 4 to 5 years massive cutting every day until worn down from sharpening. Buy a couple more.

Quality stainless is expensive. By far vast majority of cooks are not going to spend 250.00+ for a 240mm gyuto. That is why San Mai blue #2 core is an excellent option many are under 200.00


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## Benuser (Aug 21, 2019)

No big fan of stainless. Hasn't to do with difficult sharpening: after some time you find tricks to deal with the most difficult ones. It's not purely rational, but I miss some feeling. Literally. The direct contact with edge, food and board. Less so with finely grained ones, as 12C27, 13C26 or 14C28N. Patina gives a lot of joy, too. 
Love most C60 and C75, and some spicy vintage Sheffield. Simple, easy sharpening, cheap. Two minutes to restore a tip. A few strokes on a Belgian Blue to revive and deburr an edge. Or on cardboard, leather, denim, whatever is close. As it lacks the bite others get by their structure I have to keep them crazy sharp. No real yoke. 
When condemned to poly boards though, it's not very practical. What brings me to AS.


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## suntravel (Aug 31, 2019)

Vanadis 23 or REX121 both are the best in egde holding so far from my piont of view 

Regards 

Uwe


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## Barmoley (Aug 31, 2019)

suntravel said:


> Vanadis 23 or REX121 both are the best in egde holding so far from my piont of view
> 
> Regards
> 
> Uwe



Cool steels, but they are so drusticaly different. Vanadis 23 seems like a better all around steel a slightly wimpier version of cpm-m4 class of steels rex121 on the other hand is this super wear resistant very high alloy steel that can get really hard, with low toughness in comparison and very high slicing edge holding. Sharpening rex121 would be very difficult and thinning impossible for someone without a grinder and some major skills. In addition might not work best with fine, thin edges that kitchen knives have. If you had to pick just one, which one would it be.


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## suntravel (Aug 31, 2019)

Barmoley said:


> Cool steels, but they are so drusticaly different. Vanadis 23 seems like a better all around steel a slightly wimpier version of cpm-m4 class of steels rex121 on the other hand is this super wear resistant very high alloy steel that can get really hard, with low toughness in comparison and very high slicing edge holding. Sharpening rex121 would be very difficult and thinning impossible for someone without a grinder and some major skills. In addition might not work best with fine, thin edges that kitchen knives have. If you had to pick just one, which one would it be.



I would prefer V23 with my HT, because I know REX121 only with HT from an other maker, V23 is very easy to sharpen to an crazy sharp egde and hold this for a long time, the REX121 i have tested from an russian maker was not so easy to get scary sharp but holds an usable edge forever. Gets an somewhat rough egde like M390.

If kitchenknifes of these steels are made good, an homecutter may never need to thin them out.

My V23 was tested by an professional cook, and got lots of abuse like hard cheese, cutting on bonses ect. and lost the sharpness for easy slicing tomatoes after 600 pax. Was easy to get sharp again only useing fine stones...

Regards

Uwe


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## Barmoley (Aug 31, 2019)

Thanks. Out of the two V23 would be my preference too as 1 only steel. Sounds like you have it figured out too. It should make an excellent knife. Rex121 is something else all together. I am just glad that some of these cool steels are finally making it into the kitchen knife realm.


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## suntravel (Aug 31, 2019)

Well next on my bench ist Vanadis 4E (made only harcore outdoorcoppers from this rihgt now) and CPM3V.

Could be very good for thin lasergrinds because of the toughness with a bit less egde holding.

Böhler K390 ist als very good in terms of egde holding with not so thin grinds, lacks a bit of toughness for super thin grinds...

Regards Uwe


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## RDalman (Aug 31, 2019)

suntravel said:


> Well next on my bench ist Vanadis 4E (made only harcore outdoorcoppers from this rihgt now) and CPM3V.
> 
> Could be very good for thin lasergrinds because of the toughness with a bit less egde holding.
> 
> ...


There's quite alot of potentially interesting hss out there. Since erasteel is local to me now I looked up their selection, the one equivalent to t15 is looking bonkers, 12%W


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## suntravel (Aug 31, 2019)

RDalman said:


> There's quite alot of potentially interesting hss out there. Since erasteel is local to me now I looked up their selection, the one equivalent to t15 is looking bonkers, 12%W



High W and V are bitches to grind 

I prefer high V because ist makes smaller carbides, better for kitchen knifes.

But both kill belts in seconds 

Regards

Uwe


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## Barmoley (Aug 31, 2019)

suntravel said:


> Well next on my bench ist Vanadis 4E (made only harcore outdoorcoppers from this rihgt now) and CPM3V.
> 
> Could be very good for thin lasergrinds because of the toughness with a bit less egde holding.
> 
> ...


Sounds great v4e is probably better for kitchen knives than 3V, since 3V looses toughness fast at high hardness, so for super thin grinds, edges where you need high hardness for stability v4e is probably as good toughness wise and has better wear resistance. All guesses on my part ofcourse, never tried either in a kitchen knife.


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## suntravel (Aug 31, 2019)

Barmoley said:


> Sounds great v4e is probably better for kitchen knives than 3V, since 3V looses toughness fast at high hardness, so for super thin grinds, edges where you need high hardness for stability v4e is probably as good toughness wise and has better wear resistance. All guesses on my part ofcourse, never tried either in a kitchen knife.



Well maybe will check this out 

I have also Chipper Steel on my list, with all the hard stuff its hard to beat AEB-L regarding efficiency in a pro kitchen, because of its ability to get sharp with a honing steel in seconds unless someone make a fine steel for V23. Dick Titan works but is not fine enough...

Regards

Uwe


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## Benuser (Aug 31, 2019)

What happens when using the Dick Micro?


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## RDalman (Aug 31, 2019)

Benuser said:


> What happens when using the Dick Micro?


Knife gets (e)rect? Just guessing.


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## Barmoley (Aug 31, 2019)

RDalman said:


> Knife gets (e)rect? Just guessing.


Like +100


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## Barmoley (Aug 31, 2019)

Benuser said:


> What happens when using the Dick Micro?


I hear more and more about using D.Micro on super hard steels with great success. Haven't tried it though.


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## Josh Hiett (Sep 1, 2019)

I would like to add to this! 52100 @ 63 rockwell


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## josemartinlopez (Sep 10, 2020)

How is ATS-34 compared to AEB-L and other good stainless steels?


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## Benuser (Sep 10, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> How is ATS-34 compared to AEB-L and other good stainless steels?


From Roman Landes' Messerklingen und Stahl


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## HSC /// Knives (Sep 10, 2020)

Z wear or PD-1


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## Ruso (Sep 10, 2020)

Stainless: M390
Carbon: Blue2

if I had to pick one of this 2 for ever and ever, stainless it would be.


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## Nemo (Sep 10, 2020)

Well heat-treated steel.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 10, 2020)

Sanmai. AS with perfect HT.
Honyaki. B#2


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## Matt Zilliox (Sep 10, 2020)

26c3 I think. Great as cores, great as mono. Holds an edge and feels great to sharpen.
Blue 2 is pretty great too


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## esoo (Sep 10, 2020)

52100.

I've only used it in Zwilling's HT, but sharpens well, retains an edge in the home kitchen and is pretty darn tough. Not the prettiest patina, but seems to take work to rust it.


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## LostHighway (Sep 10, 2020)

Another year old thread comes back to life!
Too soon to really know for me. I own or have owned only about twenty Japanese knives and I've had the chance to use another four or five so not a large sample here relative to the members who have used more than double that sample. However, the early returns lean toward the fine grained stainless steels like AEB-L, Nitro-V, Ginsan, etc. - good toughness, takes sharp edge and holds an edge reasonably well, not bad to sharpen and no worries with acidic or high sulfur compound ingredients. Z-Wear is tough and holds an edge incredibly well but I haven't had the need to sharpen it yet so no experience there. Aogami 1 & 2, Shirogami 1 & 2 and 1.2519 are all fine, no problems but nothing really stands out for me. Arguably they can get slightly sharper than the stainless steels referenced about and are slightly easier to sharpen but I don't find the difference all that dramatic. SG2/R2 has a weird feel for me, not really a negative just weird, but that is based on a sample of one. 52100, A2/SKD12, 1.2442, and 1.2562 I haven't tried. Most of the super high edge retention steels like REX 121 I have zero interest in. I am, however, curious about NioMax, ZTuff and, to a lesser extent CPM-D2, but I haven't seen any evidence that any of these are as of yet in use in kitchen knives.


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## ModRQC (Sep 10, 2020)

How could I choose one steel, even of the many I've tried, if I cannot be sure I ever used it with excellent HT?

Begging the question, if all makers around the world were to close shop but one, who should that be?


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## ian (Sep 10, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Begging the question, if all makers around the world were to close shop but one, who should that be?



Shun, probably. In the case of a super-plague affecting only knife makers, the lowly yet ubiquitous cockroach survives.


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## Barmoley (Sep 10, 2020)

Nemo said:


> Well heat-treated steel.


Boring  would you take well heat treated 1045 for a kitchen knife? As silly as this question is we have to assume any of the picked steels is heat treated well, otherwise there is nothing to talk about. We also have to agree that there are differences among steels, if this was not true everyone would use one steel. Given these 2 postulates you could discuss which class of steels would be the best for kitchen knives. Z-wear/PD1/CPM Cruwear class would be very difficult to improve on as over all best steel for kitchen knives. Hard AEB-L is also at the top if stainless and most ease of sharpening are needed. CPM-154/RWL34 also strike a great balance for kitchen knives. This seems to suggest that other steels are not good and this is not the case, but they give up something to the above. For example, low alloy steels make great kitchen knives. They have the ability to easily patina to give more character to the knives, they can also be easily forged and don't require special equipment to heat treat, but if we are looking at steel specifically and not knife manufacturing or maintenance processes then low alloy steels are not the best.


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## ModRQC (Sep 10, 2020)

ian said:


> Shun, probably. In the case of a super-plague affecting only knife makers, the lowly yet ubiquitous cockroach survives.



True, very true... 

I'll dig myself an antinuclear vault, not because I'm afraid of the end of the world, just to lock my knives away and live happy forever a good distance away from any Shun contamination.


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