# first knife: Fujiwara Denka?



## microtech

Backstory: I’ve been using junk knives until very recent, so I finally decided to get into the world of JKnives. After reading some blogs and watching videos, I’m embarrassed to admit that I bought a Shun chef knife. I realized this was a mistake as I delve deeper into the world of great knives. I’ll probably turn this Shun into a beater knife or just let my wife use it (same thing really).

I have my heart set on getting a *Teruyasu Fujiwara Denka 210mm gyuto* as my first real knife. I’d like to skip the sequential upgrades and just go straight to the top end for performance, but avoiding the collector price of rare knives. It seems that TF Denkas are one of the few top choices in this regards, but only if I get a good one in the selection lotto. 

I’ll be ordering directly from Teruyasu’s site. To avoid getting a lemon, I’d like to request certain specifications in the order comment section. However, since I’m still new to this, I have no idea what to even ask for. To have the performance that this knife should have, what are the ideal specs? I stole this from another thread, let me know if these are good ballpark numbers to request:

edge length - 210mm
height at heel - 53mm
spine thickness - 3.2mm


----------



## daddy yo yo

microtech said:


> *first knife: Fujiwara Denka?*


----------



## juice

microtech said:


> I’m embarrassed to admit that I bought a Shun chef knife.


I like my Shun. It's not exactly awesome, but I've had six years of good service out of it.


----------



## ma_sha1

Good luck OP, I like your style


----------



## ma_sha1

juice said:


> I like my Shun. It's not exactly awesome, but I've had six years of good service out of it.



I still have a shun, really good as a petty. It gets neglected, frequently left on the counter with food residues on it, but it never rusts.


----------



## toddnmd

I’d guess a very high percentage of us are former or previous Shun owners. Welcome to the club. The important thing is that you now recognize it is time to move on. 
Requesting those specs provides NO greater chance of avoiding known issues (bends, over grinds, etc). They are just size preferences.
I’ve bought three TFs in the past couple years, and a friend bought another. They were all good ones, even great ones. The ones I didn’t buy but looked at were also good.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Are you sure that 210 mm is your preferred length? 

A 210 mm Denka is about 225g, are you sure that is your preferred weight for a 210 gyuto?

Are you sure you can put up with non-stainless?

How are your sharpening skills?

A lot of good knives in the $200-300 category are very much "real" knives, FYI.


----------



## ma_sha1

josemartinlopez said:


> Are you sure that 210 mm is your preferred length?
> 
> A 210 mm Denka is about 225g, are you sure that is your preferred weight for a 210 gyuto?
> 
> Are you sure you can put up with non-stainless?
> 
> How are your sharpening skills?
> 
> A lot of good knives in the $200-300 category are very much "real" knives, FYI.



These are great questions, Jose


----------



## lemeneid

If this was your first “serious knife” I would advise against purchasing a Denka. Subsequent knives would just be disappointing and you wouldn’t enjoy the journey. It’s like starting off on heroin then trying other stuff like magic shrooms, you wouldn’t get a kick out of it any more. I would suggest trying a few of the other classics before jumping to TF.

On the other hand, if you intend to make this your only knife purchase and quit KKF for good, by all means get the Denka.

As for specs, just go with the stock knife. You’re far too inexperienced to know what you really want in a knife still.


----------



## wombat

I bought a TF, not a Denka, before I knew what I was doing (and I’m not there yet). You can jump straight in, but in a year or two you might feel like you want the chance to do it over again.


----------



## daddy yo yo

lemeneid said:


> On the other hand, if you intend to make this your only knife purchase and quit KKF for good, by all means get the Denka.


Well, no one needs a Denka in that case because, as you said yourself, he knows nothing about his preferences and he’d be happy with any other of the usual suspects in the 2-300$ range.


----------



## lemeneid

daddy yo yo said:


> Well, no one needs a Denka in that case because, as you said yourself, he knows nothing about his preferences and he’d be happy with any other of the usual suspects in the 2-300$ range.


This I would have to disagree on. If he’s done his research and decided the Denka is what he wants, who are we to judge. My case still stands, if it’s the one and only knife, then get it.


----------



## daddy yo yo

I keep asking myself if you make the upgrade from junk to Shun, why would one decide to downgrade by buying a TF?


----------



## Corradobrit1

The only way to appreciate


daddy yo yo said:


> I keep asking myself if you make the upgrade from junk to Shun, why would one decide to downgrade by buying a TF?


Where's the  button?


----------



## daddy yo yo

Corradobrit1 said:


> Where's the  button?


No need. And as lemeneid said, “My case still stands“!


----------



## josemartinlopez

May be worth asking OP what he understands by "sequential upgrades" and "the top end for performance". But if he knows what he wants, hope he posts pics of the journey.


----------



## timebard

You could purchase from EpicEdge rather than direct. You'll pay a non trivial premium (looks like a 210 Denka is $710) but my understanding is that they do some initial QC and send back examples with major issues.

More power to you if you want to jump straight into the deep end, but for the same money down you could buy three popular lower cost knives, figure out what you like and don't, sell/trade the ones that don't speak to you on BST, try a few more, and have a lot more to inform what you want in a top performer at the $500+ mark. It's also much less intimidating to figure out sharpening and thinning on cheaper knives!


----------



## PappaG

The original poster is requesting "Ideal specs". OP: i don't think there is such a thing. This is subjective and even if you could identify "ideal specs", I'm not sure you can get TF to meet your specs.


----------



## wind88

My very first TF was a 210 TF denka ordered direct w/o any specific request. Now I probably have 5-6 TFs and would certainly get more if the prices aren't crazy high like now. Btw, the specs are close to what you posted: about 210 heel to tip and 52 at heel. I didn't measure the spine thickness but all TFs don't have super thick spine or noticeable distal taper.


----------



## Phip

The two challenges I'd see in starting with a Denka are that you'll immediately jump into the need to not only sharpen well but thin and rework a blade very well, and you'll also have to have enough experience to judge cutting performance to see how your blade reworking is going. I know you expect to get a "good" one. I've been there done that and got a "good" one, hand picked in person, that "only" took me five hours to clean up and rework to become useable (plus time to replace the mediocre Wa handle w/ a custom). It still needs a couple of hours to be completely finished (--there's still a small section of the blade where it wants to wedge).
You don't say how experienced you are at thinning and blade maintenance. Know that you'll almost inevitably knock off a lot of kurochi finish that you'd intended to leave. You'll have trouble getting the scratches out--and oh yes, it will look like a cat fight that lasted hours with deep scratches that have to be worked out again. So if you don't have a minimum of three good stones ( 220/300, 800/1200, 2000/4000) at least, plus a good flattener, you'll be buying those, too, just to start w/ a Denka. 
If you are tired of mediocrity and want excellence, you could try a Wantanabe or Toyama for a heavier knife, a Gesshin Gengetsu for a medium weight, or a FM or Tadatsuna (Inox or carbon) if you want a great laser. These are all plug and play knives that will not need reworking to be functional.


----------



## josemartinlopez

By the way, would anyone advise getting a TF Maboroshi first before getting a Denka, if you are willing to just get the Denka? I honestly didn't understand the difference between the two other than the Maboroshi is stainless clad, is the "lower" line and is in White #1. But my understanding is, it's not similar to the Denka except it's in White #1, the Denka is a superior knife. I also don't understand if the Maboroshi would become "obsolete" as a knife with a similar profile but of lesser quality if you then get the Denka. I saw the old threads with @lemeneid explaining all this, but honestly didn't think I fully understood the difference.


----------



## simar

If you are planning on having this as your only knife, you may want to send it to someone capable that will flatten the bevel and put a nice jnat edge on it.


----------



## tchan001

Ideally, you'd buy the Denka as cheaply as you can so you can save up and send it for a tuneup with someone like Forty Ounce.


----------



## RockyBasel

Phip said:


> The two challenges I'd see in starting with a Denka are that you'll immediately jump into the need to not only sharpen well but thin and rework a blade very well, and you'll also have to have enough experience to judge cutting performance to see how your blade reworking is going. I know you expect to get a "good" one. I've been there done that and got a "good" one, hand picked in person, that "only" took me five hours to clean up and rework to become useable (plus time to replace the mediocre Wa handle w/ a custom). It still needs a couple of hours to be completely finished (--there's still a small section of the blade where it wants to wedge).
> You don't say how experienced you are at thinning and blade maintenance. Know that you'll almost inevitably knock off a lot of kurochi finish that you'd intended to leave. You'll have trouble getting the scratches out--and oh yes, it will look like a cat fight that lasted hours with deep scratches that have to be worked out again. So if you don't have a minimum of three good stones ( 220/300, 800/1200, 2000/4000) at least, plus a good flattener, you'll be buying those, too, just to start w/ a Denka.
> If you are tired of mediocrity and want excellence, you could try a Wantanabe or Toyama for a heavier knife, a Gesshin Gengetsu for a medium weight, or a FM or Tadatsuna (Inox or carbon) if you want a great laser. These are all plug and play knives that will not need reworking to be functional.



Well said


----------



## DitmasPork

microtech said:


> Backstory: I’ve been using junk knives until very recent, so I finally decided to get into the world of JKnives. After reading some blogs and watching videos, I’m embarrassed to admit that I bought a Shun chef knife. I realized this was a mistake as I delve deeper into the world of great knives. I’ll probably turn this Shun into a beater knife or just let my wife use it (same thing really).
> 
> I have my heart set on getting a *Teruyasu Fujiwara Denka 210mm gyuto* as my first real knife. I’d like to skip the sequential upgrades and just go straight to the top end for performance, but avoiding the collector price of rare knives. It seems that TF Denkas are one of the few top choices in this regards, but only if I get a good one in the selection lotto.
> 
> I’ll be ordering directly from Teruyasu’s site. To avoid getting a lemon, I’d like to request certain specifications in the order comment section. However, since I’m still new to this, I have no idea what to even ask for. To have the performance that this knife should have, what are the ideal specs? I stole this from another thread, let me know if these are good ballpark numbers to request:
> 
> edge length - 210mm
> height at heel - 53mm
> spine thickness - 3.2mm



No, no, no!!!! I would never, ever recommend getting a TF Denka for as a first "real knife" (whatever the heck that means). I have a Denka, love it to death, one of my all time faves—but glad it wasn't my fist knife, don't get me wrong, Denkas can be great knives, but they do have loades of idiosyncrasies. Even if you order directly, there's no guarantee of not getting a lemon.

Without knowing anything about your preferences, there's an immense range of really, really good knives at or below the 210 Denka price range. Look at Takada, Gengetsu, Watanabe, Takamura, etc.

Since you're in the US, I'd recommend checking out the offerings at Carbon Knife Co, Japanese Knife Imports, MTC Kitchen, etc. Contact them and chat, to get additional insight. I'm a firm believer in the value of building a rapport with a reputable dealer.

----------
Denkas can be great—this one perfect for me, blew my mind—but not a good first knife if you ever plan on getting additional knives. Pretty much every J-knife fan I know didn't stop at buying just one knife.


----------



## daddy yo yo

DitmasPork said:


> No, no, no!!!! I would never, ever recommend getting a TF Denka for as a first "real knife" (whatever the heck that means). I have a Denka, love it to death, one of my all time faves—but glad it wasn't my fist knife, don't get me wrong, Denkas can be great knives, but they do have loades of idiosyncrasies. Even if you order directly, there's no guarantee of not getting a lemon.
> 
> Without knowing anything about your preferences, there's an immense range of really, really good knives at or below the 210 Denka price range. Look at Takada, Gengetsu, Watanabe, Takamura, etc.
> 
> Since you're in the US, I'd recommend checking out the offerings at Carbon Knife Co, Japanese Knife Imports, MTC Kitchen, etc. Contact them and chat, to get additional insight. I'm a firm believer in the value of building a rapport with a reputable dealer.
> 
> ----------
> Denkas can be great—this one perfect for me, blew my mind—but not a good first knife if you ever plan on getting additional knives. Pretty much every J-knife fan I know didn't stop at buying just one knife.
> 
> View attachment 90316


You nailed it, my friend! And for that one I really do envy you!


----------



## Corradobrit1

Despite all the Debbie Downers you can find a great Denka 210 direct. Just do your homework and ask plenty of questions. You didn't say if it needs to be Wa or Western. The former will generally have fewer F&F issues.
This is what you can achieve with the correct approach.









TFTFTFTF


----------



## Runner_up

I own or have tried knives from every big name in the game. Including 5 from TF (4 bought direct, 1 LNIB off of BST here). Had I purchased them first when I became interested in knives, there is a decent chance I wouldn't have acquired much more after that. - They are that good (at least for/to me).


----------



## simar

Corradobrit1 said:


> Despite all the Debbie Downers you can find a great Denka 210 direct. Just do your homework and ask plenty of questions. You didn't say if it needs to be Wa or Western. The former will generally have fewer F&F issues.



Totally agree, get what makes you happy and be ready to learn your knife. If it makes you excited then its worth it.


----------



## RockyBasel

I started collecting knives this May and I have gone through so many knives to finally hone in on what I like. I have spent thousands, and my average knife price point so far has been around 440 per knife 

I deliberately avoided Denka due to polarized opinions on it and most importantly it’s quality and rework issues - where people sent them back to Japan.

However, some insightful and knowledgeable people on this forum persuaded me to take the leap of faith and get one. I was going to get one this week, but got distracted and got a Heiji and Togashi instead - both very expensive knives. So maybe in a couple of weeks, I get the Denka

Know that at that price point, you could be getting many spectacular knives including Some Honyaki. 

When I stay I started with knives, I did not start with $100 knives, I went straight to $300, 400, 600, 800, knives. But price point has less to do with it. It has more to do with what is your style and preference. I prefer my knives with a bit of weight. 

Others like lighter, thinner knives. It has to do with how you cook, how much you cook, if you are prepping 6 hours a day or if you cook for fun every so often. If you are a Pro.

I am not sure owning a Denka will help you figure out what you like, other than the fact that you got a Denka - well, why not get a blue steel Togashi sharpened by Tosa? I mean you can’t go wrong with that knife! It is perfection

If you really want to go all out, I would get a Denka and get two other great knives like a Watanabe, Togashi, Y. Tanaka, or Toyama or Fujiyama - the epitome of the finest form of knife making. Stay away from Chelsea Miller (my lesson learned in another thread) These Knives will be a bit less expensive, but you may actually like them more

Great to learn about your self in this journey as well, and of course, the knives you prefer and that fit your style

It’s a great journey full of discoveries. That’s why WTS booms here, people out-grow some knives, others never reach for them and end up selling them - no matter the price or prestige- and others discover what they really like, which often is not what you think you ought to like

My concern is that given the hype around Denka. You may actually be under-whelmed. Because expectations and hyper-hype ( TFTFTFTFTF... I love that btw!)

But go out be bold and splurge - you only live once


----------



## captaincaed

timebard said:


> You could purchase from EpicEdge rather than direct. You'll pay a non trivial premium (looks like a 210 Denka is $710) but my understanding is that they do some initial QC and send back examples with major issues.


Also get a round, polished spine and choil.

My 2c. I think a mid step between Shun (which is a good, not great gateway knife) and the Denka would be wise. I had good cutters like Carter, Ginga, Asai, Yoshikane before. The contrast with other professional knives is what makes it stand out for me.

If it were me.
Start with a stainless clad white steel knife with a wide double bevel, either Wakui, Kochi or Yoshikane. Enjoy the contrast with Shun. They all cut amazing and don't break the bank. You can learn to thin the bevel. Learn to sharpen white steel. It has the same stainless clad carbon core package the Denka has. Once you can do that for 6mo, jump to the Denka and enjoy the contrast. It'll blow you away.


----------



## valdim

RockyBasel said:


> I started collecting knives this May and I have gone through so many knives to finally hone in on what I like. I have spent thousands, and my average knife price point so far has been around 440 per knife
> 
> I deliberately avoided Denka due to polarized opinions on it and most importantly it’s quality and rework issues - where people sent them back to Japan.
> 
> However, some insightful and knowledgeable people on this forum persuaded me to take the leap of faith and get one. I was going to get one this week, but got distracted and got a Heiji and Togashi instead - both very expensive knives. So maybe in a couple of weeks, I get the Denka
> 
> Know that at that price point, you could be getting many spectacular knives including Some Honyaki.
> 
> When I stay I started with knives, I did not start with $100 knives, I went straight to $300, 400, 600, 800, knives. But price point has less to do with it. It has more to do with what is your style and preference. I prefer my knives with a bit of weight.
> 
> Others like lighter, thinner knives. It has to do with how you cook, how much you cook, if you are prepping 6 hours a day or if you cook for fun every so often. If you are a Pro.
> 
> I am not sure owning a Denka will help you figure out what you like, other than the fact that you got a Denka - well, why not get a blue steel Togashi sharpened by Tosa? I mean you can’t go wrong with that knife! It is perfection
> 
> If you really want to go all out, I would get a Denka and get two other great knives like a Watanabe, Togashi, Y. Tanaka, or Toyama or Fujiyama - the epitome of the finest form of knife making. Stay away from Chelsea Miller (my lesson learned in another thread) These Knives will be a bit less expensive, but you may actually like them more
> 
> Great to learn about your self in this journey as well, and of course, the knives you prefer and that fit your style
> 
> It’s a great journey full of discoveries. That’s why WTS booms here, people out-grow some knives, others never reach for them and end up selling them - no matter the price or prestige- and others discover what they really like, which often is not what you think you ought to like
> 
> My concern is that given the hype around Denka. You may actually be under-whelmed. Because expectations and hyper-hype ( TFTFTFTFTF... I love that btw!)
> 
> But go out be bold and splurge - you only live once


+1
At the end of the day, what you lose is some cash - the difference between your buying price and your selling price.


----------



## parbaked

Denka should be your last knife....


----------



## RockyBasel

parbaked said:


> Denka should be your last knife....



It is for me - the last

the only ones I have not gone through are Shig and Kato- but because I can’t get them. Denka is going to be pretty much one of the last knives I will get

Current favorite is a 207 gm blue Y Tanaka dama- love it! It sells for about $600, but I got it at the JNS sale for 325 - a real steal. Just got it last week.


----------



## slickmamba

get something in the $200 range to learn how to use thin and hard knives.


----------



## captaincaed

This is quickly turning into another OP absent thread. ****.it.


----------



## simar

captaincaed said:


> This is quickly turning into another OP absent thread. ****.it.


Probably a case of being overwhelmed by the answers


----------



## RockyBasel

simar said:


> Probably a case of being overwhelmed by the answers



Some really thoughtful advice in the answers though. But OP nowhere to be found just us sports fans


----------



## DitmasPork

microtech said:


> It seems that TF Denkas are one of the few top choices in this regards...



Denka can be a very good knife! However, there're many "top choices" to be had, which ones are depended on your tastes and objectives. If I'd bought a Denka as my first knife, I would still have continued to buy knives in search of better knives. I'll change my tune from my earlier comment—think you should just 'commit' and buy a Denka, use it, enjoy it, then go out and buy another good knife. Don't be worried about getting a lemon, that's just over thinking things—if you do get a lemon, accept it as a learning experience. FWIW, my Denka is great, and worth all the hype.


----------



## Corradobrit1

captaincaed said:


> This is quickly turning into another OP absent thread. ****.it.


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


>



OP has fled as confused as the first posting


----------



## juice

captaincaed said:


> This is quickly turning into another OP absent thread.


Plenty of other people reading the thread are learning things, though. OPs start threads, but they don't own them (much as that surprises some of them) nor are they the only ones who benefit from the ensuing posts.


----------



## RockyBasel

juice said:


> Plenty of other people reading the thread are learning things, though. OPs start threads, but they don't own them (much as that surprises some of them) nor are they the only ones who benefit from the ensuing posts.


100% - I got a lot out of it


----------



## microtech

captaincaed said:


> This is quickly turning into another OP absent thread. ****.it.





simar said:


> Probably a case of being overwhelmed by the answers





RockyBasel said:


> Some really thoughtful advice in the answers though. But OP nowhere to be found just us sports fans





juice said:


> Plenty of other people reading the thread are learning things, though. OPs start threads, but they don't own them (much as that surprises some of them) nor are they the only ones who benefit from the ensuing posts.




No, I'm still here, still reading and digesting all the posts. Also still at work so will give a more fruitful response once I'm off.

It hasn't even been a full day yet. Tough crowd haha


----------



## lemeneid

There are many Denkas out there. They definitely won’t have the best F&F, but I guarantee they are all the best cutters I’ve ever used. I still have a “bad” one in my collection and it’s the best cutters I’ve got. The only thing that beat that was my perfect Denka 

There isn’t really a “lottery” nowadays. Their knives have improved leaps and bounds over the years. When I was there last year, I inspected 20 knives and they were all mostly perfect. Buy with confidence!


----------



## lemeneid

timebard said:


> You could purchase from EpicEdge rather than direct. You'll pay a non trivial premium (looks like a 210 Denka is $710) but my understanding is that they do some initial QC and send back examples with major issues.
> 
> More power to you if you want to jump straight into the deep end, but for the same money down you could buy three popular lower cost knives, figure out what you like and don't, sell/trade the ones that don't speak to you on BST, try a few more, and have a lot more to inform what you want in a top performer at the $500+ mark. It's also much less intimidating to figure out sharpening and thinning on cheaper knives!


Sorry but no. All retailers get the sh1t knives. Your best bet is still to go direct. They don’t “pay extra” for a better job. The only one with the better finish is Morihei but he has since stopped selling those “fine finish” blades.


----------



## daddy yo yo

lemeneid said:


> Sorry but no. All retailers get the sh1t knives. Your best bet is still to go direct. They don’t “pay extra” for a better job. The only one with the better finish is Morihei but he has since stopped selling those “fine finish” blades.


Maybe they stopped because of quality issues?!?? 

On a side note, I have 3 Morhihei/TF knives, which are good. F&F is ridiculous, the handles, well, even I could do better... They do cut though... the blades, not the handles!  A fourth TF (Nashiji) is on its way. And maybe I could have a weak moment if I was in Tokyo again. Last year I didn't even care about visiting TF.


----------



## toddnmd

For me, western with finger notch is THE way to go.


----------



## Alwayzbakin

While I think there have been a handful of valid reasons given to try other knives instead, I disagree with some of the dissuasion.


> Are you sure you can put up with non-stainless?


For me, compared to the soft cladding of my other reactive knives, the AS core steel is quite hassle free, I can barely get it to take a noticeable patina.


> The two challenges I'd see in starting with a Denka are that you'll immediately jump into the need to not only sharpen well but thin and rework a blade very well, and you'll also have to have enough experience to judge cutting performance to see how your blade reworking is going.


The one I got was certainly the thinnest near the edge of any knife I have. Mine and many others I’ve seen (from what I can tell from choil shots) keep that thinness for a decent ways above the edge as well. Taking into account the edge retention, I think there’s a long life on a lot of these before they need thinning. Sure he (as well as I and anyone else for that matterl) will have to do it eventually, but, as mine is concave through almost the entire grind, I would imagine thinning just behind the edge is an easier job to execute than on a convex bevel. Granted, polishing the bevel on stones will likely require more work than other options besides the concavity alone, as low spots seem to be a frequent issue, but sandpaper/fingerstones/whatever 40oz has up his sleeve is always an option for when that time comes.

I think mine is a great low-maintenance, really smooth cutter with steel that takes a great edge with little effort and seems (so far) to hold it very well. That said I do agree with others that there are other great knives out there to try—some I like better as an overall package, and some just have different positive qualities and styles.
Worst that can happen is you turn around and sell it (they seem to move eventually if not fast on BST) and try something (or two for that price) of a different style


----------



## microtech

Thank you everyone that has given input! it’s genuinely appreciated 

The reason I settled for 210mm is because we have a junk 9.5” carving knife that seldom gets touched. The same might apply if I picked up a 240mm.
I’m also ok with the high maintenance required of carbon blades. I still baby my Shun SG2, treating it like it's a delicate carbon blade.
My sharpening skills are non existent, but excited to learn and try. Looking to pick up a Gesshin 400, 2000, 6000 grit set, or Chosera 400, 800, 3000 with Atoma 140
I already have a walnut and maple end-grain cutting boards.

What I mean by skipping “sequential upgrades” is avoiding purchasing knives by price point and incrementally increase my budget in search of a better one, while constantly dumping the previous one. Cost is only a small part of the equation, and availability takes precedence. I plan to have only one main kitchen knife and a few other types, rather than owning 20 flavors of gyutos.

Sure, I’ll be missing out on the discovery journey to finding out what my true preferences are. There are no shortcuts of going through a handful of varieties. Perhaps I won’t find my perfect knife. But I’m ok with that, as long as it’s relatively close enough.

I fully understood the inconsistencies and F&F issues when considering this knife. But I didn’t want that to turn me away from how great its HT and cutting potential. I do expect to be sending this off to someone to rework the F&F and tuning (recommendations for blade rework and custom handle? Forty Ounce was mentioned earlier).

So despite the general consensus that TF isn’t a good knife to start out with, I think I’m still going to take the leap of faith into the deep end anyways. After I get it back from being reworked and if I’m still dissatisfied, I will sell it and consider Watanabe or Konosuke Fujiyama, or perhaps other ones too. But if it’s the knife I realistically expect it to be, then my journey ends there.


TFTFTF


----------



## lemeneid

microtech said:


> Thank you everyone that has given input! it’s genuinely appreciated
> 
> The reason I settled for 210mm is because we have a junk 9.5” carving knife that seldom gets touched. The same might apply if I picked up a 240mm.
> I’m also ok with the high maintenance required of carbon blades. I still baby my Shun SG2, treating it like it's a delicate carbon blade.
> My sharpening skills are non existent, but excited to learn and try. Looking to pick up a Gesshin 400, 2000, 6000 grit set, or Chosera 400, 800, 3000 with Atoma 140
> I already have a walnut and maple end-grain cutting boards.
> 
> What I mean by skipping “sequential upgrades” is avoiding purchasing knives by price point and incrementally increase my budget in search of a better one, while constantly dumping the previous one. Cost is only a small part of the equation, and availability takes precedence. I plan to have only one main kitchen knife and a few other types, rather than owning 20 flavors of gyutos.
> 
> Sure, I’ll be missing out on the discovery journey to finding out what my true preferences are. There are no shortcuts of going through a handful of varieties. Perhaps I won’t find my perfect knife. But I’m ok with that, as long as it’s relatively close enough.
> 
> I fully understood the inconsistencies and F&F issues when considering this knife. But I didn’t want that to turn me away from how great its HT and cutting potential. I do expect to be sending this off to someone to rework the F&F and tuning (recommendations for blade rework and custom handle? Forty Ounce was mentioned earlier).
> 
> So despite the general consensus that TF isn’t a good knife to start out with, I think I’m still going to take the leap of faith into the deep end anyways. After I get it back from being reworked and if I’m still dissatisfied, I will sell it and consider Watanabe or Konosuke Fujiyama, or perhaps other ones too. But if it’s the knife I realistically expect it to be, then my journey ends there.
> 
> 
> TFTFTF


If this is to be your only knife then good choice! You absolutely don’t need to get it thinned after getting it. Enjoy the knife as it is, it’s sharp enough and the cutting experience is most certainly unique amongst the knives I own. Most knives cut well, but they feel “sterile” in feel. The Denka is definitely a very lively knife and it urges you to cut more and more, that’s what I got out of it.

It also sharpens up buttery smooth, no other knife I have sharpens up so easily and keeps its sharpness. I think @inzite summed it up best, Denka has the peak sharpness of white steel with the edge retention of R2, and it’s a pretty close description.

Anyway F&F issues are meaningless to me. I’m not buying a drawer queen, I’m buying a knife to cut sh1t up and current TFs don’t have any of these.

TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF


----------



## EShin

microtech said:


> Thank you everyone that has given input! it’s genuinely appreciated
> 
> The reason I settled for 210mm is because we have a junk 9.5” carving knife that seldom gets touched. The same might apply if I picked up a 240mm.
> I’m also ok with the high maintenance required of carbon blades. I still baby my Shun SG2, treating it like it's a delicate carbon blade.
> My sharpening skills are non existent, but excited to learn and try. Looking to pick up a Gesshin 400, 2000, 6000 grit set, or Chosera 400, 800, 3000 with Atoma 140
> I already have a walnut and maple end-grain cutting boards.
> 
> What I mean by skipping “sequential upgrades” is avoiding purchasing knives by price point and incrementally increase my budget in search of a better one, while constantly dumping the previous one. Cost is only a small part of the equation, and availability takes precedence. I plan to have only one main kitchen knife and a few other types, rather than owning 20 flavors of gyutos.
> 
> Sure, I’ll be missing out on the discovery journey to finding out what my true preferences are. There are no shortcuts of going through a handful of varieties. Perhaps I won’t find my perfect knife. But I’m ok with that, as long as it’s relatively close enough.
> 
> I fully understood the inconsistencies and F&F issues when considering this knife. But I didn’t want that to turn me away from how great its HT and cutting potential. I do expect to be sending this off to someone to rework the F&F and tuning (recommendations for blade rework and custom handle? Forty Ounce was mentioned earlier).
> 
> So despite the general consensus that TF isn’t a good knife to start out with, I think I’m still going to take the leap of faith into the deep end anyways. After I get it back from being reworked and if I’m still dissatisfied, I will sell it and consider Watanabe or Konosuke Fujiyama, or perhaps other ones too. But if it’s the knife I realistically expect it to be, then my journey ends there.
> 
> 
> TFTFTF



Congratulations on a probably very good choice - let us know about your impressions once you get it!
As others have said, Denkas have a really low reactivity compared to many other carbon steel knives, and at least my Denka takes a beating, so caring for it shouldn't be a problem at all.
Maybe it won't be your perfect knife - but the search for the holy grail won't ever end anyway, so I think you're making a smart move. About reworking: As lemeneid and some other's already said, chances are that you'll be perfectly happy with it just as it is, so try it out for a while before deciding on any further steps!
As for sharpening, get a cheap knife to start out with!


----------



## Corradobrit1

EShin said:


> Congratulations on a probably very good choice - let us know about your impressions once you get it!
> As others have said, Denkas have a really low reactivity compared to many other carbon steel knives, and at least my Denka takes a beating, so caring for it shouldn't be a problem at all.
> Maybe it won't be your perfect knife - but the search for the holy grail won't ever end anyway, so I think you're making a smart move. About reworking: As lemeneid and some other's already said, chances are that you'll be perfectly happy with it just as it is, so try it out for a while before deciding on any further steps!
> As for sharpening, get a cheap knife to start out with!


Good suggestions. And if you do rework, make sure the Pro you choose knows what they're doing. I've handled one Denka that was ruined by a poorly executed 'thinning' job. Its the subtleties in the grind and profile that can make or break performance.


----------



## josemartinlopez

microtech said:


> What I mean by skipping “sequential upgrades” is avoiding purchasing knives by price point and incrementally increase my budget in search of a better one, while constantly dumping the previous one.


Heh, I certainly hope this isn't a thing, sounds insane and there's not necessarily a correlation between price point and performance above the $200-300 range. Good luck OP.


----------



## josemartinlopez

lemeneid said:


> There isn’t really a “lottery” nowadays. Their knives have improved leaps and bounds over the years. When I was there last year, I inspected 20 knives and they were all mostly perfect. Buy with confidence!


Is this the candid 2020 update? If you want to take the Denka plunge, you should just go to their website and not try to get them to send you a dozen photos so you can look at the blade road?


----------



## DitmasPork

josemartinlopez said:


> Heh, I certainly hope this isn't a thing, sounds insane and there's not necessarily a correlation between price point and performance above the $200-300 range. Good luck OP.



What do you mean by "not necessarily a correlation between price point and performance above the $200-300 range."? There is IMO.


----------



## josemartinlopez

"Not necessarily". Not "none".


----------



## DitmasPork

josemartinlopez said:


> "Not necessarily". Not "none".



If generally speaking, I'd raise that bar to $600–$700.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Heh, I approach 3-Michelin meals and a memorable street stall with equal enthusiasm.


----------



## RockyBasel

How do I get a Denka with a red handle?


----------



## simar

RockyBasel said:


> How do I get a Denka with a red handle?


get on your knees and pray to the TF gods


----------



## RockyBasel

simar said:


> get on your knees and pray to the TF gods



Yes, I’ll also light some red incense too

But seriously.....where?


----------



## Bcos17

Red handles are sold out of their shop in Tokyo from what I understand. If you can't make it there, you could look out for one on BST but they might be hard to find.


----------



## IsoJ

Or then you can colour light wood with unicorn blood


----------



## DitmasPork

josemartinlopez said:


> Heh, I approach 3-Michelin meals and a memorable street stall with equal enthusiasm.



We're just talking about different levels. I too get super excited about eating from a top-notch Asian food stall—but eating at a four-star joint often elevates things considerably with more finesse, better quality ingredients, life-changingly delicious dishes, etc.

In knife terms, based on my experience, there's a considerable difference between a *cheapish factory made knife like a Masamoto KS (fun knife, familiar profile, average steel, nondescript handle) and an exceptional handmade knife by say, someone like Evan Anzentberger for twice the price. The latter beats the former in performance, quality, steel, craftsmanship, aesthetics, etc.

[*KS was cheapish when I bought it, maybe about $325 about a decade ago]

Don't get me wrong, I love my KS. Good beater for me.


----------



## parbaked

RockyBasel said:


> How do I get a Denka with a red handle?


As previously mentioned, they are in the shop but they don't bother to offer online. I'm not sure if they still make them. This was 2018.
The shop has lots of odd knives, including the bone handled ones on the top shelf.
The santoku bottom left has a handle made from the magnolia tree in front of the shop...nice gaps!
Ask them by email what is available. They will sell them to you if they have them. There's nothing exclusive about it.





I played with them all and like the black western handle Maboroshi with finger notch most...


----------



## DitmasPork

parbaked said:


> As previously mentioned, they are in the shop but they don't bother to offer online. I'm not sure if they still make them.
> The shop has lots of odd knives, including the bone handled ones on the top shelf. The santoku bottom left has a handle made from the magnolia tree in front of the shop...nice gaps!
> Ask them by email what is available. They will sell them to you if they have them. There's nothing exclusive about it.
> View attachment 90384
> 
> I played with them all and like the black western handles with finger notch most...


Ah, that's awesome. A visit there is on my bucket list for sure.


----------



## Garm

Alwayzbakin said:


> but, as mine is concave through almost the entire grind, I would imagine thinning just behind the edge is an easier job to execute than on a convex bevel.


Have other people here experienced the same when it comes to the grind? It's been a few years since I've last bought a knife from them, but the "graded" convex grind has been a defining feature of every TF gyuto I've handled. Just wondering if they've changed their grind/geometry in general.


----------



## DitmasPork

@microtech When you thinking of making a move for a denka? Can't wait to see it.


----------



## microtech

DitmasPork said:


> @microtech When you thinking of making a move for a denka? Can't wait to see it.


Within the next few days! I'll be requesting for the wa handle to be included but come unattached (for custom handle later).

If TF doesn't have one from inventory readily available based on my specific requests, any ideas how long it will take to fabricate one, and how long is shipping from japan to US?


----------



## DitmasPork

microtech said:


> Within the next few days! I'll be requesting that for the wa handle to be included be come unattached (for custom handle later).
> 
> If TF doesn't have one from inventory readily available based on my specific requests, any ideas how long it will take to fabricate one, and how long is shipping from japan to US?



To the best of my knowledge EMS shipments from Japan to USA is suspended, DHL is expensive, maybe an additional $100 or so. I'd originally planned on going direct from TF through Gaku, but ended up getting secondhand because of the shipping situ. I don't trust shipments from Asia right now, one of my knives from Asia took more than 3 months—was supposed to take 10 days.

If DHL is an option, that's the safest route.

Epic Edge is a possibility if you don't mind paying a premium.

Drew at Epic Edge would prob send you pics of what he has in stock if you request.


----------



## simar

You can probably contact the folks at knifewear and see if they can help you out from Canada.


----------



## esoo

Knifewear has the 210 in stock: Fujiwara Denka Gyuto 210mm

They also have a red handled 180 in stock


----------



## DitmasPork

@microtech A friend of mine got a denka direct, took 4 months.


----------



## Villanelle

Coutelier has them in stock in US.


----------



## DitmasPork

Villanelle said:


> Coutelier has them in stock in US.


Oooooh, I want another! 








Fujiwara | Denka | Gyuto 210mm


couteliernola.com




couteliernola.com


----------



## captaincaed

Way to stick to your guns. Post up pics!


----------



## RockyBasel

microtech said:


> Within the next few days! I'll be requesting for the wa handle to be included but come unattached (for custom handle later).
> 
> If TF doesn't have one from inventory readily available based on my specific requests, any ideas how long it will take to fabricate one, and how long is shipping from japan to US?



I am too - i am leaning towards the Wa handle - have two options 245mm Denka Gyuto with rosewood handle or 275mm Denka with Cherry wood handle. It would be my first Denka - not my first knife - so not sure which way to go here - 245 or 275 - that is the question


----------



## toddnmd

microtech said:


> Within the next few days! I'll be requesting for the wa handle to be included but come unattached (for custom handle later).
> 
> If TF doesn't have one from inventory readily available based on my specific requests, any ideas how long it will take to fabricate one, and how long is shipping from japan to US?



I’d suggest getting one with an installed handle so you can use the knife and test it out. It usually only takes seconds to remove a wa handle. 
And using it will give you a chance to check out the grind. It might arrive to you in great condition. While TF Denka’s best trait is probably the steel, the well ground ones are excellent knives. You may not need to fix what’s not broken. 
(Handle choice is more of a preference issue, and I’m in the group that finds ho kinda boring).


----------



## RockyBasel

Quick question for Denka fans - how much should a 240 mm Wa handle Gyuto Denka weigh? Are they heavy - 225gm+ or are they around 200gms?


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> I am too - i am leaning towards the Wa handle - have two options 245mm Denka Gyuto with rosewood handle or 275mm Denka with Cherry wood handle. It would be my first Denka - not my first knife - so not sure which way to go here - 245 or 275 - that is the question


Remember, if you choke up with a pinch grip the signature TF finger notch will effectively reduce the length of the cutting edge by about 10-15mm. So if you like oversized 240's with regular choils go for the 275.


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> Remember, if you choke up with a pinch grip the signature TF finger notch will effectively reduce the length of the cutting edge by about 10-15mm. So if you like oversized 240's with regular choils go for the 275.



Good thought.

Also Depends on the weight - my website where I am thinking of buying it says thrn240mm is 194gm and the 275 is 214 gm - seems kind of light - that’s why I wonder if these are thinned our versions of Denka. I mean they just look substantial from the pics - my Y Tanaka I just got from JNS was 208 gm - how can the Denka be lighter - it just looks so much bigger


----------



## microtech

RockyBasel said:


> Also Depends on the weight - my website where I am thinking of buying it says thrn240mm is 194gm and the 275 is 214 gm - seems kind of light -


That does seem light. Directly from TF, a 240mm _should_ be around 240grams, so a discrepancy of 46g seems like a lot









Japanese Knives | Japanese Knives | TERUYASU FUJIWARA


Gyuto knife [Denka]. We deliver our products Free Worldwide Shipping! Established a company as a Japanese sword manufacturer 140 years ago. We can not provide an opportunity to appreciate how sharp and splendid the traditional swords are directly, however, we make sure how good they are by using...




www.teruyasu.net


----------



## RockyBasel

microtech said:


> That does seem light. Directly from TF, a 240mm _should_ be around 240grams, so a discrepancy of 46g seems like a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese Knives | Japanese Knives | TERUYASU FUJIWARA
> 
> 
> Gyuto knife [Denka]. We deliver our products Free Worldwide Shipping! Established a company as a Japanese sword manufacturer 140 years ago. We can not provide an opportunity to appreciate how sharp and splendid the traditional swords are directly, however, we make sure how good they are by using...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.teruyasu.net



Thanks - something definitely seemed off - 245 mm at only 194 gm. This really helps my next move. At the retailer I can see the quality, ordering from Japan, I need a Denka whisperer to guide me to give the right direction and check quality- could be a surprise- but hey, that’s why we love knives

Thanks again


----------



## Corradobrit1

microtech said:


> That does seem light. Directly from TF, a 240mm _should_ be around 240grams, so a discrepancy of 46g seems like a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese Knives | Japanese Knives | TERUYASU FUJIWARA
> 
> 
> Gyuto knife [Denka]. We deliver our products Free Worldwide Shipping! Established a company as a Japanese sword manufacturer 140 years ago. We can not provide an opportunity to appreciate how sharp and splendid the traditional swords are directly, however, we make sure how good they are by using...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.teruyasu.net


Thats for the Yo handle which is significantly heavier compared to a Wa. Weights are all over the place. When I was looking for 210 Denka I was getting actual weights between 175-225g. Go for the weight that suits best.


----------



## microtech

Corradobrit1 said:


> Thats for the Yo handle which is significantly heavier compared to a Wa. Weights are all over the place.


Thanks for this correction. Wow I didn't realize wa and yo handles have this much of a difference

Their website didn't even specify which handle the specs were measured in. But I guess with such inconsistencies, specs should be taken with a grain of salt


----------



## lemeneid

It really depends, my previous Maboroshi was 219g and my Denka was 253g. Both western handle.

My upcoming Denka will be in the 270-290 ballpark.


----------



## Corradobrit1

lemeneid said:


> It really depends, my previous Maboroshi was 219g and my Denka was 253g. Both western handle.
> 
> My upcoming Denka will be in the 270-290 ballpark.


TF making you a Wakizashi?


----------



## RockyBasel

lemeneid said:


> It really depends, my previous Maboroshi was 219g and my Denka was 253g. Both western handle.
> 
> My upcoming Denka will be in the 270-290 ballpark.



I presume western handle - does a Wa handle 245 mm Gyuto at 194 gm seem a bit “off” to you? Is it still a Denka if it is so light?


----------



## lemeneid

Corradobrit1 said:


> TF making you a Wakizashi?


Nope, I just prefer bigger knives


RockyBasel said:


> I presume western handle - does a Wa handle 245 mm Gyuto at 194 gm seem a bit “off” to you? Is it still a Denka if it is so light?


It depends, could be a more lasery one they’re sending you. I’ve seen really thin ones in store as well as fat ones. I know another member here with a 240 western handle topping out at 215g so it’s not too far off for Wa handle.


----------



## Corradobrit1

From what I've seen, Mabs tend to be a little heavier compared to Denka. But as I said weights are not spec'ed. They are what they are and generally related to the thickness, especially along the spine.

If its got a hammered Ku finish its a Denka


----------



## lemeneid

Corradobrit1 said:


> From what I've seen, Mabs tend to be a little heavier compared to Denka. But as I said weights are not spec'ed. They are what they are and generally related to the thickness, especially along the spine.
> 
> If its got a hammered Ku finish its a Denka


Unless it’s a bastardized panda knife


----------



## Corradobrit1

lemeneid said:


> Unless it’s a bastardized panda knife


Then general KKF consensus is that its no longer a TFTFTFTF


----------



## josemartinlopez

microtech said:


> Thanks for this correction. Wow I didn't realize wa and yo handles have this much of a difference


It exists and is another thing to think about in addition to the length you are getting!


----------



## josemartinlopez

Corradobrit1 said:


> Despite all the Debbie Downers you can find a great Denka 210 direct. Just do your homework and ask plenty of questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TFTFTFTF


Can I ask what exactly you should ask TF if you try to buy direct but cannot go to Tokyo yourself (almost impossible right now, for example)? I saw old threads asking for help checking photos sent by TF, for example.

By the way, I agree with OP that if you know what you want and feel you have done your research, you can "step up" and start with a knife at the highest price point. I think I can say that, and my questions were to check, for example, that OP doesn't soon after think he wants a 240 or a stainless knife, etc.


----------



## panda

lemeneid said:


> Unless it’s a bastardized panda knife


it's a monster, and the steel feels even better than the wh1 from mab (probably due to iron cladding).
FYI shipping cost was $100USD


----------



## juice

panda said:


> FYI shipping cost was $100USD


Geez, it's like you live down here.


----------



## chiffonodd

lemeneid said:


> If this was your first “serious knife” I would advise against purchasing a Denka. Subsequent knives would just be disappointing and you wouldn’t enjoy the journey. It’s like starting off on heroin then trying other stuff like magic shrooms, you wouldn’t get a kick out of it any more. I would suggest trying a few of the other classics before jumping to TF.
> 
> On the other hand, if you intend to make this your only knife purchase and quit KKF for good, by all means get the Denka.
> 
> As for specs, just go with the stock knife. You’re far too inexperienced to know what you really want in a knife still.



CMCMCMCMCMCM


----------



## tchan001

chiffonodd said:


> CMCMCMCMCMCM


☝Well now we know who's been buying up those Chelsea Millers.


----------



## RockyBasel

tchan001 said:


> ☝Well now we know who's been buying up those Chelsea Millers.



I am steering clear of this one


----------



## banzai_burrito

While it's not a Denka, Knife Toronto has the Nashiji in red with a KU finish. 180mm






Fujiwara Western Red Handle 180mm Gyuto


The Fujiwara family have been making edged tools for over 140 years. Today, fourth generation blacksmith Teruyasu Fujiwara continues this craft with kitchen knives. Regarded as some of the best constructed knives in the world his knowledge in forging and care of the craft show in all lines that...




knifetoronto.com


----------



## Corradobrit1

banzai_burrito said:


> While it's not a Denka, Knife Toronto has the Nashiji in red with a KU finish. 180mm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fujiwara Western Red Handle 180mm Gyuto
> 
> 
> The Fujiwara family have been making edged tools for over 140 years. Today, fourth generation blacksmith Teruyasu Fujiwara continues this craft with kitchen knives. Regarded as some of the best constructed knives in the world his knowledge in forging and care of the craft show in all lines that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> knifetoronto.com


Somewhat understating the W#1 hardness.


----------



## RockyBasel

I thought I was set and was going to buy the 245 mm Denka WA handle, but the 194 gm weight has poured cold water on those plans - too light for a Denka when I hear people on this forum mention 240 gm, 279 gm, and even 290


----------



## RockyBasel

I will call the retailer to ensure the weight is correct. My blue dama Y Tanaka from JNS was listed at 184 gm but came in at a perfect 208 gm when I weighed it. Website weight was the old Tanaka knife’s weight


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> I thought I was set and was going to buy the 245 mm Denka WA handle, but the 194 gm weight has poured cold water on those plans - too light for a Denka when I hear people on this forum mention 240 gm, 279 gm, and even 290


Wa handle TF's will always be lighter (less metal in tang) especially with Ho wood handle. You're comparing apples and oranges. Although an extreme example compare the weight of Wa vs Yo Jiro's


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> Wa handle version will always be lighter, especially with Ho wood handle. You're comparing apples and oranges.



I do know Wa handles will be lighter as you and lemeneid have both astutely pointed out. This one is a rosewood handle, but most of my knives are Wa handles and the Sanjo and sakai knives I have are generally 200 gm plus. My toyama is 208, jiro is 245, etc.
This seems more on the side of laxer than what I thought a Denka would be. Lemeneid is saying his are up to 270’gm


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> I do know Wa handles will be lighter as you and lemeneid have both astutely pointed out. This one is a rosewood handle, but most of my knives are Wa handles and the Sanjo and sakai knives I have are generally 200 gm plus. My toyama is 208, jiro is 245, etc.
> This seems more on the side of laxer than what I thought a Denka would be. Lemeneid is saying his are up to 270’gm


If you're talking about his incoming Denka I'm pretty sure that will also be Western handle


----------



## microtech

I made the plunge. Just ordered directly from TF! I’ll report back with pics once they send them to me, before shipping it.

I did request that the heel height be around 52mm, not too thick or thin, and to hand select one with a good profile. Those are rather general, so I'm not expecting my request will carry much weight. But it was worth a try.


----------



## RockyBasel

microtech said:


> I made the plunge. Just ordered directly from TF! I’ll report back with pics once they send them to me, before shipping it.
> 
> I did request that the heel height be around 52mm, not too thick or thin, and to hand select one with a good profile. Those are rather general, so I'm not expecting my request will carry much weight. But it was worth a try.



most helpful. I think this is the way to go.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Congrats OP!


----------



## DitmasPork

microtech said:


> I made the plunge. Just ordered directly from TF! I’ll report back with pics once they send them to me, before shipping it.
> 
> I did request that the heel height be around 52mm, not too thick or thin, and to hand select one with a good profile. Those are rather general, so I'm not expecting my request will carry much weight. But it was worth a try.


Awesome! I trust that good vendors try their best to fulfill reasonable requests—one's I've dealt with have.


----------



## jacko9

microtech said:


> I made the plunge. Just ordered directly from TF! I’ll report back with pics once they send them to me, before shipping it.
> 
> I did request that the heel height be around 52mm, not too thick or thin, and to hand select one with a good profile. Those are rather general, so I'm not expecting my request will carry much weight. But it was worth a try.



I see your request but if I were the blacksmith I would wonder what are you asking for besides a very specific 52mm height? I would be interested in what you actually get and see how that measures up to your expectations.


----------



## Corradobrit1

jacko9 said:


> I see your request but if I were the blacksmith I would wonder what are you asking for besides a very specific 52mm height? I would be interested in what you actually get and see how that measures up to your expectations.


He wants the Goldilocks edition TFTFTFTF


----------



## M1k3

microtech said:


> I made the plunge. Just ordered directly from TF! I’ll report back with pics once they send them to me, before shipping it.
> 
> I did request that the heel height be around 52mm, not too thick or thin, and to hand select one with a good profile. Those are rather general, so I'm not expecting my request will carry much weight. But it was worth a try.


Roundabout way to passively/aggressively say without an overgrind, please?


----------



## microtech

DitmasPork said:


> Awesome! I trust that good vendors try their best to fulfill reasonable requests—one's I've dealt with have.


If all the “good” ones gets requested from people that call in or cherry-picked in store, it makes me wonder what happens to the ones with subpar F&F or profile. They have to go somewhere. I’m assuming these gets dumped to people that order blind without saying anything.


----------



## Corradobrit1

microtech said:


> If all the “good” ones gets requested from people that call in or cherry-picked in store, it makes me wonder what happens to the ones with subpar F&F or profile. They have to go somewhere. I’m assuming these gets dumped to people that order blind without saying anything.


They go to the Western retailers. I wouldn't be surprised if most ex Japan sales are through 3rd party vendors rather than ordered direct. We happen to be the nit-pickers


----------



## DitmasPork

microtech said:


> If all the “good” ones gets requested from people that call in or cherry-picked in store, it makes me wonder what happens to the ones with subpar F&F or profile. They have to go somewhere. I’m assuming these gets dumped to people that order blind without saying anything.



I highly doubt a good maker would intentionally dump the lemons onto customers that aren't picky, or to give subpar ones to Western vendors (good way to poison a business relationship). I've asked for pics from different makers, and they've obliged.


----------



## M1k3

Much better to randomly distribute the sub-par ones.


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> I highly doubt a good maker would intentionally dump the lemons onto customers that aren't picky, or to give subpar ones to Western vendors (good way to poison a business relationship). I've asked for pics from different makers, and they've obliged.


You'd be surprised. Several vendors dropped TF because of the number of sub-par product they were getting which ended up being returned by unhappy customers. EE even tried to ensure some additional QC by paying $100-150 extra per knife. This was a few years ago and fortunately as Lemeneid says the 'new management' have addressed a lot of those concerns.


----------



## captaincaed

Way to pull the trigger and lean into it. It won't be perfect, but it'll be damn good. 

lack of commitment floating around new members these days. Nice to see a change.


----------



## juice

captaincaed said:


> lack of commitment floating around new members these days.


I have a lack of knowledge and a lack of funds


----------



## Corradobrit1

juice said:


> I have a lack of knowledge and a lack of funds


not to mention a distinct lack of thread starts. Slacker


----------



## captaincaed

juice said:


> I have a lack of knowledge and a lack of funds


Like I said. Gotta sell that kidney


----------



## juice

captaincaed said:


> Gotta sell that kidney


Actually thinking of selling the apartment and moving semi-rural where I could have a workshop...


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> Actually thinking of selling the apartment and moving semi-rural where I could have a workshop...


Apartments suck!


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> Apartments suck!


Been here over a decade, and quite like it. But I'm getting sick of living this near to people, and it's kinda amazing I've lasted this long given how much I dislike the general concept of people...


----------



## tchan001

Sell your apartment, move to semi-rural, and set up your "Juicy Couteaux" workshop. LOL


----------



## juice

tchan001 said:


> Sell your apartment, move to semi-rural, and set up your "Juicy Couteaux" workshop. LOL


I like the way you're thinking


----------



## josemartinlopez

Corradobrit1 said:


> not to mention a distinct lack of thread starts. Slacker


+1


----------



## juice

Ouch! Dissed by the king!


----------



## microtech

Just wanted to make some notes about ordering directly from TF:

The website UI is mediocre at best, and UX so far has not been that great. During checkout, I thought I would just pay by credit card, but was only given the option of bank transfer, which means I’d have to stop by my bank to initiate a wire transfer (I think it’s $40 for wire fee + currency conversion fee). I opted for payapl instead, which my credit card is linked to. The currency conversion rate will be billed to me on my next statement. Not sure how much it is, but I think it’s around 3% extra. No problem.

However, I’m not sure my order even went through. After I click “pay in JPY” within the paypal popup, I got an email confirmation from paypal that payment was charged. But it seems like TF’s website was still stuck and the confirmation page never loaded. It’s been like *THIS* for almost 12 hours now. No confirmation page nor email, so I don’t even know what my order number is. So buggy. I did however get spam emails from them already haha. Maybe it’s just the weekend and orders don’t get processed until Monday. I’ll shoot them an email towards the end of Monday if I still haven’t gotten any confirmation by then.

Also, does anyone know if TF himself processes these orders and reads the comment/request box, or does he have his own minions to do that? Is there any kind of direct interaction with TF?


----------



## josemartinlopez

You should use a Fintech service like Transferwise.com for Japanese Yen domestic bank transfers below 1 million yen. PayPal and the Japanese banking system have many legacy issues and a wire transfer will also involve a bad exchange rate and a Japanese bank transfer fee. Plus, Transferwise will take less than an hour to confirm on the Japan end.


----------



## lemeneid

No issues ordering in Japan, I used direct credit card in their store, or PayPal when I purchased some other things.

Just shoot them an email and see what they say.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Unless you have a US credit card with preferential exchange rates, the best you can do out of Singapore is an American Express card a 2.5% foreign exchange surcharge, not counting PayPal fees if the other guy asks you to cover those.


----------



## Receiver52

Does your PayPal account say re this transaction “Pending”? If not, it has gone through and TF has your money. i believe that it is 9 49 am now in Tokyo so hopefully you will get a confirmation soon if there is no Pending in your account


----------



## Jville

@microtech , how much was it direct, it including shipping?


----------



## Henry

I am not sure if this is the place to ask this question but there seems to be some people with a good knowledge of the work of TF. My question is,
"did TF ever make a Denka with ironwood western handle?" In the past, would he have accepted a special order for handles?

I bought a few Denka's off a guy I know and he claims two of them are ironwood handles. They do look like my pakawood handles on my other Denkas but the wood looks like it is ironwood. He bought them from Knifewares many years ago but never used and kept in his garage so his wife could not use them. I don't think he ever really used them. I had to buy them all off of him out of principal.


Please skip this next paragraph if you want to avoid some midnight blabber of self indulgeance. I will not be offended. 

By the way, I started with this journey with a Masakage and a Tekada AS. Then I purchased a Denka. Since then I have purchased and tried on loan many knives but IMHO never really measured up with the Denka I can not explain it but some here on this tread come close to what I felt and still feel when I use it. I felt like this only twice. My first knife purchase of the Tekada then with the Denka. Since then all the knives I purchased, I have liked and appreciated and sometimes even loved but I never got that feeling of falling in love again.Taking this path made me less knowledgable about the general topic of Japanese knives as well as the esoteric knowledge that many on this forum debate about. As a result, I could not articulate why I think a Denka is a great knife. I only know how I feel when I use it. In Karen Armstrong's book on the Biography of God (as seen by Jews, Christians and Muslims) , she states, people throughout history have perceived God in two ways. One as through experience she calls, mystics. The mystics do not strive to be knowledgable of God but rather define God by their experience with them. What they feel is more important than what they factually know. Thus their focus in on experiencing more than knowing more. Others defined and understood God through their knowledge. They created certainty with knowledge/facts/logic of who God is. When it comes to knives, as I have found from participating on these forums, I am a mystic. I am not a mystic by choice but rather out of ignorance. I wish I knew what my betters know on this fourm. In a perfect world, I should have taken the longer journey and fell in love with all of the wonderful knives thinking they were the one, until I found another and go through that beautiful progress again and again learning along the way all the things of those knives I fell in love with. Then after many years of falling in love with knife after knife, I read this thread and buy a Denka.


----------



## panda

microtech said:


> Also, does anyone know if TF himself processes these orders and reads the comment/request box, or does he have his own minions to do that? Is there any kind of direct interaction with TF?



gaku was the representative that dealt with all the communication when i ordered direct.


----------



## josemartinlopez

So how's the conversation with Gaku going, OP?


----------



## Etsoh

Might be a good idea to pick up a cheaper blade to have for rougher applications. I'd hate to chip a denka


----------



## M1k3

josemartinlopez said:


> So how's the conversation with Gaku going, OP?


When we going to see some carrot cutting videos from you? Showing off your newest knife buy?


----------



## josemartinlopez

I need to buy a carrot.


----------



## M1k3

josemartinlopez said:


> I need to buy a carrot.


----------



## lemeneid

josemartinlopez said:


> I need to buy a carrot.


What’s the best carrot to buy?
Where to get a hand forged carrot peeler?
Do carrots feel pain?
What can I do with all the carrots I cut?

Some posts for you to consider putting up.


----------



## josemartinlopez

lemeneid said:


> Where to get a hand forged carrot peeler?


This sounds incredible.


----------



## DitmasPork

lemeneid said:


> What’s the best carrot to buy?
> Where to get a hand forged carrot peeler?
> Do carrots feel pain?
> What can I do with all the carrots I cut?
> 
> Some posts for you to consider putting up.


----------



## tchan001

DitmasPork said:


> View attachment 91154


Really nice profile knife. Very sharp tip. Love the orange-colored patina.


----------



## Twigg

That guy looks like the carrot, same profile and haircut.


----------



## Corradobrit1

What are they feeding those veggies. Look at the mutant onions in the background. Can't be legal


----------



## M1k3

DitmasPork said:


> View attachment 91154


Got any Tomacco?


----------



## captaincaed

If Gaku is still willing to deal with forum members asking questions, he should probably be considered for the Canonization


----------



## lemeneid

Corradobrit1 said:


> What are they feeding those veggies. Look at the mutant onions in the background. Can't be legal


Obviously eating live humans. It’s karma for their family members we’ve eaten.


----------



## lemeneid

josemartinlopez said:


> This sounds incredible.


Buy a kikuryu for @ma_sha1 to cut up


----------



## Corradobrit1

lemeneid said:


> Buy a kikuryu for @ma_sha1 to cut up


He bought the Yo Kitaeji petty. Jose send it to ma_sha to make the coolest ice pick on KKF


----------



## Twigg

I think there might be a lot more to Jose than we realize.


----------



## ma_sha1

Twigg said:


> I think there might be a lot more to Jose than we realize.



I mentioned before that he could be dropping unicorns on BST at some point. Picking up the yo-Shig just solidified my theory, it’s coming, only a matter of time. After all, there’s only a finite space at any given unicorn barn


----------



## Twigg

ma_sha1 said:


> I mentioned before that he could be dropping unicorns on BST at some point. Picking up the yo-Shig just solidified my theory, it’s coming, only a matter of time. After all, there’s only a finite space at any given unicorn barn


Quite possibly. He may have enough money that it will never matter and we will never see them again. Could be that he is acting as a weird proxy too.


----------



## lemeneid

Twigg said:


> Quite possibly. He may have enough money that it will never matter and we will never see them again. Could be that he is acting as a weird proxy too.


It’s pretty obvious now JML is the Illuminati/Rothschild/Rockefeller/Freemasons of the knife world


----------



## josemartinlopez

Eitan. Call me Eitan. And I may or may not have been in Alvin's car when he drove it around camp during NS heh.


----------



## tchan001

Jose is backed by the Federal Reserve. If he needs money, he just needs to tap into the funding.


----------



## josemartinlopez

Excuse me. I'm in Singapore. We don't peg to the US dollar unlike certain other islands closer to mainland China.


----------



## tchan001

I think Jose is missing a Denka in his collection 
Someone sell him one quickly.


----------



## M1k3

josemartinlopez said:


> Eitan. Call me Eitan. And I may or may not have been in Alvin's car when he drove it around camp during NS heh.


Trash.


----------



## josemartinlopez

@tchan001, I thought we had a done deal there?


----------



## tchan001

I'm not selling my Denka to anyone. I love mine.


----------



## lemeneid

tchan001 said:


> I'm not selling my Denka to anyone. I love mine.


Sell it, there’s always a better Denka on the horizon


----------



## tchan001

Jose is going to wait for your even more perfect Denka to go up on BST.


----------



## josemartinlopez

But then he'd have to ship it to Singapore...


----------



## Corradobrit1

josemartinlopez said:


> But then he'd have to ship it to Singapore...


Nope you are in luck. He could just walk it over to you as you both live in SG. Make a social event of it and compare notes. Heck Lemeneid might even left you fondle his Wat Honyaki


----------



## josemartinlopez

He’s in Singapore AND he has the perfect Denka?


----------



## DitmasPork

captaincaed said:


> If Gaku is still willing to deal with forum members asking questions, he should probably be considered for the Canonization



It's just part of his job, part and parcel for any sales job. Customers I deal with prob more anal retentive and finicky than knife buyers. Gaku is a salesman.


----------



## cotedupy

josemartinlopez said:


> I need to buy a carrot.



Bravo Jose! That really made me laugh


----------



## Twigg

josemartinlopez said:


> He’s in Singapore AND he has the perfect Denka?


Be careful Jose, he may ask you for your phone number.


----------



## lemeneid

josemartinlopez said:


> He’s in Singapore AND he has the perfect Denka?


*Had*

Now we know who has it


----------



## Corradobrit1

The moar perfect Denka is still being created by the TF Gods just north of Tokyo.


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> It's just part of his job, part and parcel for any sales job. Customers I deal with prob more anal retentive and finicky than knife buyers. Gaku is a salesman.


That does Gaku a disservice. He also works at the Factory, maybe not forging customer Mabs and Denka's but he does create the handles. There is a lot of overlap in employee functions within the TF structure.


----------



## DitmasPork

Corradobrit1 said:


> That does Gaku a disservice. He also works at the Factory, maybe not forging customer Mabs and Denka's but he does create the handles. There is a lot of overlap in employee functions within the TF structure.


I know what Gaku does, no disservice intended—it’s a compliment of someone who has a varied skill set. Having the skills of being a sales person is a good thing, a craft that many don’t have. He’s the point of contact for many sales—facilitating the transaction admirably, in addition to his other job tasks. Knife makers selling on their own are also salesmen, they have to be.


----------



## josemartinlopez

lemeneid said:


> What’s the best carrot to buy?
> Where to get a hand forged carrot peeler?
> Do carrots feel pain?
> What can I do with all the carrots I cut?
> 
> Some posts for you to consider putting up.








OK someone went out to buy me carrots today, but they don't look like the ones in the photo. I also don't have a peeler yet. I think I have so many questions.

Can I buy you coffee to ask for help with the questions you listed? (Can you bring your Wat Honyaki?)


----------



## M1k3

*Still have sharpie on your knife?*


----------



## josemartinlopez

oh... you're supposed to remove it?


----------



## tchan001

Wait for the sharpie on his Shig western kitaeji petty later on. Accents the kitaeji.


----------



## M1k3

josemartinlopez said:


> oh... you're supposed to remove it?




Yes


----------



## lemeneid

josemartinlopez said:


> View attachment 91339
> 
> 
> OK someone went out to buy me carrots today, but they don't look like the ones in the photo. I also don't have a peeler yet. I think I have so many questions.
> 
> Can I buy you coffee to ask for help with the questions you listed? (Can you bring your Wat Honyaki?)


Dude, I’d love to help you out, but I’ve no knives now. Sold off most of them and all I got is my Denka petty and Toyanabe honyaki which is getting polished now. Rest are beaters.


----------



## josemartinlopez

I'VE BEEN SCAMMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## josemartinlopez

I could probably use the perfect Denka petty to cut carrots...


----------



## parbaked

josemartinlopez said:


> OK someone went out to buy me carrots today, but they don't look like the ones in the photo. I also don't have a peeler yet.


Having someone fetch your carrots is a totally gangster move...respect!
Maybe you can get 'em to peel them too...


----------



## ian

Priorities:

1) $5000 worth of knives
2) peeler


----------



## josemartinlopez

No this is my priority list:



lemeneid said:


> IF budget is of no issue, try any of these knives. Tried/owned them all and would happily have any of these in my knife drawer. All great lookers and top performers with a range of lasers to workhorses
> 
> Teruyasu Fujiwara Denka
> Watanabe/Toyama Honyaki
> Tsukasa River Jump
> Konosuke Fujiyama Damascus B#1/AS
> Ashi Honyaki
> Kato Kurouchi



This plus the yacht plan b.


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> Priorities:
> 
> 1) $5000 worth of knives, only shows pictures of Wusthof(s) with sharpie
> 2) someone else buys him pounds of massive carrots
> 3) peeler
> 4) remove sharpie from knife?


I'm interested in seeing his newest knife buys. And maybe a post in newest gear buy of some acetone.


----------



## McMan

M1k3 said:


> I'm interested in seeing his newest knife buys. And maybe a post in newest gear buy of some acetone.


I can think of one other way to get rid of sharpie...


----------



## ian

Cut off the bottom half of the knife?


----------



## lemeneid

That sounds like a job for ma_sha1


----------



## panda

josemartinlopez said:


> oh... you're supposed to remove it?


supposed to draw herro kitty


----------



## labor of love

I don’t feel like reading all the comments on this thread. Also, I’m surprised there are so many comments on “first knife: fujiwara Denka” thread.
Someone fill me in on the highlights.


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> I don’t feel like reading all the comments on this thread. Also, I’m surprised there are so many comments on “first knife: fujiwara Denka” thread.
> Someone fill me in on the highlights.


Tl;Dr version goes something like this:


----------



## tchan001

labor of love said:


> I don’t feel like reading all the comments on this thread. Also, I’m surprised there are so many comments on “first knife: fujiwara Denka” thread.
> Someone fill me in on the highlights.


OP says he has a Shun but really wants to get into Jknives so decides to go directly to the best, a 210 Denka.
Many people tell him he will miss out on the journey trying out different Jknives so advises not to buy Denka as first real Jknife.
OP says he plans to have only one main kitchen knife and a few other types, rather than owning 20 flavors of gyutos. Doesn't want to keep buying and dumping in search of better knife. OP plans to get someone to rework F&F and tuning of Denka and maybe also custom handle.
Congrats from crowd if he only plans to have one Jknife.
OP takes the plunge to buy with wa handle directly from TF.
Slowly gets derailed from main topic thereafter.


----------



## IsoJ

There is collab between Singapore and TF and they are putting up some jawdropping masterpiece


----------



## ma_sha1

labor of love said:


> I don’t feel like reading all the comments on this thread.
> Someone fill me in on the highlights.



JML asking others to buy carrots for him, now you asking others to read KKF for you, hmmm, is there some kind of connection here?


----------



## Twigg

These are for sale. $10 ea, JML covers PP fees and shipping.


----------



## ma_sha1

Twigg said:


> These are for sale. $10 ea, JML covers PP fees and shipping.



OMG, bloody red carrots, haven’t seen em in years. I’ll take back-up.


----------



## juice

You could buy purple ("heritage") carrots at the markets down here a few years ago, but I haven't seen them in a while (not that I eat carrots, of course).


----------



## parbaked

juice said:


> You could buy purple ("heritage") carrots at the markets down here a few years ago, but I haven't seen them in a while.


I only eat purple carrots.




They give the best patina...


----------



## juice

parbaked said:


> I only eat purple carrots.


Nice! If we had them around here I'd be more tempted to eat the occasional carrot, for sure.


----------



## Corradobrit1

juice said:


> Nice! If we had them around here I'd be more tempted to eat the occasional carrot, for sure.


Pretend its salami


----------



## panda

Corradobrit1 said:


> Pretend its salami


that what sea does


----------



## Jeezy

Hi

I am also more or less a sharpening novice, so i think this fits here.

I received my first TF denka today as well and so far i absolutely freaking loving it wow  Really sharp out of the box and it feels so nice and nimble in the hand. I had such a joy making lunch today.

Here are some pictures. I am the worst photographer ever but i think these pictures will do ..

Its a 195mm gyuto without finger notch:


















Would you experts say it needs some rework? The spine is a little bit thicker at the tip but it doesnt bother me i think. Is this a "good one" ? 

Thank you


----------



## Runner_up

Looks nice and thin, @Jeezy , I would just enjoy it. 
Nice looking knife


----------



## banzai_burrito

Good looking Denka! Is the edge length 195mm or does it run a bit longer like 200mm?


----------



## Jeezy

@banzai_burrito The edge length is 197mm and from handle to tip its actually 213mm


----------



## RockyBasel

Quick question:

Denka 240 mm Gyuto or Tsukasa Hinoura 240 mm Gyuto Kitaeji? Performance wise

I am about to pull the trigger on my first Denka, but have opportunity to buy a T. Hinoura as well

I did read earlier posts saying the T. Hinoura is an amazing performer.

On par with Denka? If you had to invest - what would you recommend?

Thoughts?


----------



## Corradobrit1

W#2 vs AS? Easy. AS especially with the TF heat treatment all day long. Get the Hinoura River jump if you like the looks. Personally does nothing for me.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

My 0.02 collectability-wise Hinoura > Denka. The pricing jump on the 210mm to 240mm TFs are inane.


----------



## Corradobrit1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> My 0.02 collectability-wise Hinoura > Denka. The pricing jump on the 210mm to 240mm TFs are inane.


Yes, the Hinoura is certainly harder to come by but I think RB is concerned about performance rather than collectibility. Returns will be higher on the secondary market for the River Jump, but I doubt you will lose money if you land a good Denka and resell. If considering performance TF>Hinoura. Investment Hinoura>TF.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

RockyBasel said:


> Quick question:
> 
> If you had to invest - what would you recommend?
> 
> Thoughts?



@Corradobrit1 I agree with that, was just responding to RockyBasel's second question: the Hinoura IMO is a better investment than a denka.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

@RockyBasel pull the trigger on both, sell the one you don't like. If you like the denka, you'll likely make money selling the Hinoura to a collector. If you like the Hinoura, the denka will fetch pretty close to purchasing price too (haven't really seen them go for over retail unless they've been thinned/had work done).

Either way they're both incredibly desirable and you'll get your money back.


----------



## Corradobrit1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @Corradobrit1 I agree with that, was just responding to RockyBasel's second question: the Hinoura IMO is a better investment than a denka.


----------



## Corradobrit1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @RockyBasel pull the trigger on both, sell the one you don't like. If you like the denka, you'll likely make money selling the Hinoura to a collector. If you like the Hinoura, the denka will fetch pretty close to purchasing price too (haven't really seen them go for over retail unless they've been thinned/had work done).
> 
> Either way they're both incredibly desirable and you'll get your money back.


Yes try to get a Denka with a USP eg red or Ebony wood Yo, Urushi Wa etc. That should ensure some desirability and keep the value buoyant.
I also agree get both and sell the one that doesn't gel. Wouldn't be hard to appreciate the Pros and Cons of each as they are so different.


----------



## Twigg

I think the term Kitaeji is exclusive to Shigefusa. Everyone else uses suminagashi. If I'm wrong please correct me someone.


----------



## lemeneid

Twigg said:


> I think the term Kitaeji is exclusive to Shigefusa. Everyone else uses suminagashi. If I'm wrong please correct me someone.


Heiji and Tsukasa use Kitaeji also


----------



## Twigg

Thanks for the correction! I'm here to learn.


----------



## panda

or get a _franken _*denkaroshi *(term coined by @ian ) iron clad denka with white1 core steel. it has taken over as my favorite knife AFTER i had it reground by @Dendrobatez the profile and steel are just perfect.


----------



## lemeneid

panda said:


> or get a _franken _*denkaroshi *(term coined by @ian ) iron clad denka with white1 core steel. it has taken over as my favorite knife AFTER i had it reground by @Dendrobatez the profile and steel are just perfect.


----------



## labor of love

lemeneid said:


> View attachment 93444


Wait, are you jelly or are you going to end @panda ? 
Dibs on that TF if he ends up sleeping w the fishes.


----------



## lemeneid

labor of love said:


> Wait, are you jelly or are you going to end @panda ?
> Dibs on that TF if he ends up sleeping w the fishes.


Not jelly at all, thats just the dumbest idea ever in my opinion.
Denka should always be AS for me.


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> Yes try to get a Denka with a USP eg red or Ebony wood Yo, Urushi Wa etc. That should ensure some desirability and keep the value buoyant.
> I also agree get both and sell the one that doesn't gel. Wouldn't be hard to appreciate the Pros and Cons of each as they are so different.



Thanks tons - really sound perspective. On the handles, if I were to order from TF direct, and wanted the upgraded handle,

If I wanted the red wood, what should I ask for - anything more specific than “red wood”. What is Urushi Wa? Is it the Japanese lacquer wood?

What is USP btw?

Thanks a lot for your help. I will get both, but have to handle the spousal reaction carefully


----------



## Corradobrit1

For red wood ask for the red pakka. They'll know. Urushi is lacquer. Not my fav as its slippery when wet but would be unique.

USP = unique selling point.


----------



## RockyBasel

Thanks tons


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> Wait, are you jelly or are you going to end @panda ?
> Dibs on that TF if he ends up sleeping w the fishes.


Dibs on Miz


----------



## panda

lemeneid said:


> Not jelly at all, thats just the dumbest idea ever in my opinion.
> Denka should always be AS for me.


AS is a stupid steel


----------



## panda

M1k3 said:


> Dibs on Miz


 both


----------



## Corradobrit1

panda said:


> AS is a stupid steel


I'll raise you an S=> ASS


----------



## ian

panda said:


> both



Dibs on Kono suji.


----------



## labor of love

Shirogami Super Steel


----------



## labor of love

Dibs on Honyaki suji


----------



## ian

1. 



ian said:


> Dibs on Kono suji.



2.



labor of love said:


> Dibs on Honyaki suji


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> both


Heard Chef!


----------



## Carl Kotte

I’ll take one of panda’s calves, unless the fish decide to have a second refill.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

What's the verdict on TF Yo vs Wa handles? 

Thinking of picking up a Denka for a friend, and having him send it to JKI once or twice a year for resharpening. 

I get that QC is abysmal on the yo handles as some bolsters I've seen are hideous, but I find both of them attractive. Not sure which way to go.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Is the 'friend'going for the 210 or 240? Big hands? If yes to the former, get the Wa. The Yo is quite small. Finger notch is most beneficial for the Yo.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Corradobrit1 said:


> Is the 'friend'going for the 210 or 240? Big hands? If yes to the former, get the Wa. The Yo is quite small. Finger notch is most beneficial for the Yo.



180mm most probably. Duly noted on the small yo. 

And yes it's for a friend lol. I have no intention of folding over a burr 234594894285794 times trying to sharpen AS. I stick with white steel when I can.


----------



## Corradobrit1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> I have no intention of folding over a burr 234594894285794 times trying to sharpen AS. I stick with white steel when I can.


TF AS is one of the easiest steels to sharpen in my collection. And I have W#1 (TF and Morihei), B#2 (Kato Ku) and mystery white (JNS Kato WH)

Don't let your friend have all the fun


----------



## M1k3

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> 180mm most probably. Duly noted on the small yo.
> 
> And yes it's for a friend lol. I have no intention of folding over a burr 234594894285794 times trying to sharpen AS. I stick with white steel when I can.


AS is still easier to deburr than stainless or semi-stainless. Especially when AS is at higher hardness. A little longer to create the burr though. But I didn't notice much difference between White and AS, some but not much.


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> Yes try to get a Denka with a USP eg red or Ebony wood Yo, Urushi Wa etc. That should ensure some desirability and keep the value buoyant.
> I also agree get both and sell the one that doesn't gel. Wouldn't be hard to appreciate the Pros and Cons of each as they are so different.



@Corradobrit1 - Thanks again - quick question: I have ordered the Denka, and they don’t have red pakka wood (western handle only) but for Wa handles they have black and red urushi handles. Ebony is the other option, but is the most expensive option - don’t understand why ebony would be most expensive - as i think it may have less USP

that leaves - black or red Urishi as USP factors - thoughts?


----------



## josemartinlopez

RockyBasel said:


> @Corradobrit1 I have ordered the Denka, and they don’t have red pakka wood (western handle only)


----------



## Twigg

RockyBasel said:


> @Corradobrit1 - Thanks again - quick question: I have ordered the Denka, and they don’t have red pakka wood (western handle only) but for Wa handles they have black and red urushi handles. Ebony is the other option, but is the most expensive option - don’t understand why ebony would be most expensive - as i think it may have less USP
> 
> that leaves - black or red Urishi as USP factors - thoughts?


Go with the least expensive handle option, then have a red Pakka wood handle made for your Denka.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

RockyBasel said:


> @Corradobrit1 - Thanks again - quick question: I have ordered the Denka, and they don’t have red pakka wood (western handle only) but for Wa handles they have black and red urushi handles. Ebony is the other option, but is the most expensive option - don’t understand why ebony would be most expensive - as i think it may have less USP
> 
> that leaves - black or red Urishi as USP factors - thoughts?



The red pakkawood is only for the western. Urushi lacquer gets slippery but it's rare. Here's an unboxing video of the red urushi denka petty: 

Very striking IMO. Personally though, I'd get the free ho/horn option and get a handle custom made.

Oh just in case, pakkawood isn't actually a wood, it's some weird resin-impregnated wood composite. It's very durable and wear resistant for knife scales, but if you're looking for USP, having a cheap durable composite wa handle isn't the way to go.


----------



## Corradobrit1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> I'd get the free ho/horn option and get a handle custom made.


If I was going Wa this is the route I would take. Custom handle, doesn't have to be fancy either. A nice grippy bog wood, burnt oak or chestnut and horn ferrule.

Loved the vid, thats how I am when I get a box with Mr Grumpy on the label


----------



## RockyBasel

All very helpful stuff. I think that really helps my decision. This is my first Denka, KKF advice has been instrumental. I wonder how long it will take now. I will let Gaku know and wait for the parcel! Denka is Not my first knife, and hopefully not my last!


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

RockyBasel said:


> All very helpful stuff. I think that really helps my decision. This is my first Denka, KKF advice has been instrumental. I wonder how long it will take now. I will let Gaku know and wait for the parcel! Denka is Not my first knife, and hopefully not my last!



@RockyBasel out of curiosity, how much did Gaku quote you for shipping? He said 7000Y for DHL when I ordered a nashiji, I'm wondering if he takes more of that cost with a denka. Feel free to PM me if that's better for you. Thanks.


----------



## demirtasem

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @RockyBasel out of curiosity, how much did Gaku quote you for shipping? He said 7000Y for DHL when I ordered a nashiji, I'm wondering if he takes more of that cost with a denka. Feel free to PM me if that's better for you. Thanks.




I recently ordered my Denka. same fee. He also said they'll cover if it exceeds.


----------



## MarcelNL

what is the impact of an additional 55 or 60 or 70 euro on a 500-800 dollar knife? I mean even a difference of 20-40 dollar does not break the bank on that amount does it?


----------



## RockyBasel

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @RockyBasel out of curiosity, how much did Gaku quote you for shipping? He said 7000Y for DHL when I ordered a nashiji, I'm wondering if he takes more of that cost with a denka. Feel free to PM me if that's better for you. Thanks.



he is charging me 2,400 for shipping. I am in Switzerland so keep that in mind. Also, I am not sure if I got standard or expedited shipping. I remember expedited, but I am glad you asked this question, and I will make sure that I did


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> he is charging me 2,400 for shipping. I am in Switzerland so keep that in mind. Also, I am not sure if I got standard or expedited shipping. I remember expedited, but I am glad you asked this question, and I will make sure that I did


EMS to Switzerland I'm guessing. Lucky guy


----------



## RockyBasel

Let’s see what type of shipping it arrives in. Do you know how long they take to make the Denka once you have paid? I mean typically how long from when I order to when they ship?


----------



## RockyBasel

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @RockyBasel out of curiosity, how much did Gaku quote you for shipping? He said 7000Y for DHL when I ordered a nashiji, I'm wondering if he takes more of that cost with a denka. Feel free to PM me if that's better for you. Thanks.



so my 2,400 got me the standard shipping which is 3-6 days. The other option is economy shipping which is free, but can take up to 13 days.

I did not explore DHL, which I still can I suppose as the knife has not shipped


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> Let’s see what type of shipping it arrives in. Do you know how long they take to make the Denka once you have paid? I mean typically how long from when I order to when they ship?


Most of the knives are in stock (or at least were pre-Covid) so I assume it will ship soon.


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> Most of the knives are in stock (or at least were pre-Covid) so I assume it will ship soon.


Ok great - went with Urushi - thanks for the advice


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

RockyBasel said:


> Ok great - went with Urushi - thanks for the advice



Looking forward to seeing it. Congrats


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> Ok great - went with Urushi - thanks for the advice


After seeing that unboxing vid I don't blame you. She's a looker


----------



## demirtasem

RockyBasel said:


> Let’s see what type of shipping it arrives in. Do you know how long they take to make the Denka once you have paid? I mean typically how long from when I order to when they ship?



I ordered mine (paid) at August 26. He said they were in production. Then I contacted with him again two days ago. He said my knife will be ready around this weekend. I'm so excited.


----------



## RockyBasel

Oh cool, do post. Look forward to comparing pics and notes. Is this your first?


----------



## demirtasem

RockyBasel said:


> Oh cool, do post. Look forward to comparing pics and notes. Is this your first?



Will sure do. Yes it's gonna be my first TF.


----------



## wombat

RockyBasel said:


> Ok great - went with Urushi - thanks for the advice


Congrats, did you go for red or black? The red looks cool. I haven't been able to find any pics of the black.


----------



## Corradobrit1

wombat said:


> Congrats, did you go for red or black? The red looks cool. I haven't been able to find any pics of the black.


I've only seen red with black ferrule


----------



## wombat

Corradobrit1 said:


> I've only seen red with black ferrule


Ah, perhaps I misread RockyBasel's post


----------



## RockyBasel

wombat said:


> Ah, perhaps I misread RockyBasel's post


Will go with red


----------



## RockyBasel

demirtasem said:


> I ordered mine (paid) at August 26. He said they were in production. Then I contacted with him again two days ago. He said my knife will be ready around this weekend. I'm so excited.


Interesting, he told me a knife just came out of production today and he will ship it next week. I asked him about ensuring high quality finish and he said he would personally supervise the finish process to ensure a high quality product- as per @lemeneid’s advice, he seems to know a thing or two about TF - I asked them to send me a pic before shipping

he said he would.

mysteries of Japanese knife sourcing, and I can’t wait to receive it.


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> Interesting, he told me a knife just came out of production today and he will ship it next week. I asked him about ensuring high quality finish and he said he would personally supervise the finish process to ensure a high quality product- as per @lemeneid’s advice, he seems to know a thing or two about TF - I asked them to send me a pic before shipping
> 
> he said he would.
> 
> mysteries of Japanese knife sourcing, and I can’t wait to receive it.


Ask for pics of both sides, choil and resting on the flat spot against a board. One pic is not enough to evaluate


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> Ask for pics of both sides, choil and resting on the flat spot against a board. One pic is not enough to evaluate


Good stuff. Will do exactly that. Presume resting on a flat spot will reveal any warp effects?


----------



## Twigg

Overgrinds


----------



## RockyBasel

Of course, duh, that’s what everyone talks about - I may ask for a favor and send the pics your way for a second opinion - if you can indulge me


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> Good stuff. Will do exactly that. Presume resting on a flat spot will reveal any warp effects?


Edge down. The way you describe which I assume you are thinking side down, can be informative too. Will tell you about warpage and unwanted curvature.


----------



## josemartinlopez

So what's the price premium on TF Denkas with "USPs" like red handles? 

How much are slightly used TF Denkas going for these days?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Here's a couple of good points of reference
240 red handle. (Current retail direct $840)





WTS - TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF 240 Denka Gyuto


Gonna put this one up for sale. I love it to bits, but I am getting more and better TFs. It is the perfect Denka, perfect grind with no low spots at all, they have all been meticulously taken care of through many rounds of sandpaper, stones and nats. Anyone who is scared of playing the TF...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





270 red handle ($998)





SOLD - TF Denka 270mm Western Gyuto


Description Bought direct from TF in the last 6 months. Had it thinned by Andrew (@Forty Ounce ) and it's now a cutting machine. However, I'd like it to be a bit more blade heavy so I'm putting it up for sale to potentially find another that fits my preferences better or putting it towards...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## josemartinlopez

Yep, but any way to isolate the touch up work done by @lemeneid or @Forty Ounce on those?


----------



## Corradobrit1

josemartinlopez said:


> Yep, but any way to isolate the touch up work done by @lemeneid or @Forty Ounce on those?


Nope. Not enough data points. 'Special' TF's are too rare.


----------



## lemeneid

Corradobrit1 said:


> Here's a couple of good points of reference
> 240 red handle. (Current retail direct $840)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTS - TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF 240 Denka Gyuto
> 
> 
> Gonna put this one up for sale. I love it to bits, but I am getting more and better TFs. It is the perfect Denka, perfect grind with no low spots at all, they have all been meticulously taken care of through many rounds of sandpaper, stones and nats. Anyone who is scared of playing the TF...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 270 red handle ($998)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOLD - TF Denka 270mm Western Gyuto
> 
> 
> Description Bought direct from TF in the last 6 months. Had it thinned by Andrew (@Forty Ounce ) and it's now a cutting machine. However, I'd like it to be a bit more blade heavy so I'm putting it up for sale to potentially find another that fits my preferences better or putting it towards...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com


I know where to locate another perfect Denka. Hand picked and finished on naturals. 

But I know for sure the owner isn’t selling it.


----------



## Corradobrit1

lemeneid said:


> I know where to locate another perfect Denka. Hand picked and finished on naturals.
> 
> But I know for sure the owner isn’t selling it.


When you know, you know


----------



## josemartinlopez

The luckiest guys in Singapore.


----------



## lemeneid

Corradobrit1 said:


> When you know, you know


That’s the only one I might consider buying over, in addition to mine. Would take other claims of “perfect Denka” with a huge kidney-failure inducing pinch of salt


----------



## Corradobrit1

lemeneid said:


> That’s the only one I might consider buying over, in addition to mine. Would take other claims of “perfect Denka” with a huge kidney-failure inducing pinch of salt


This one per chance. Work of art


----------



## josemartinlopez

Not a fan of the KU finish and hammering rubbed off though.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Beauty in the eye of the beholder. Has an abstract vibe.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

I did not realize the denka KU finish was glossy not matte. Cool knife nonetheless.


----------



## lemeneid

Corradobrit1 said:


> This one per chance. Work of art



That’s Wa handle. And not perfect imo.

The one I know is red and western handle.


----------



## josemartinlopez

"Perfect" means the blade road is even, the finishing is a notch higher than the typical Denka you see, and naturals were involved? Plus Western and red handle?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Woah. Nice work


----------



## lemeneid

Corradobrit1 said:


> Woah. Nice work



I know the guy who owns those knives. Beautiful handles.


----------



## demirtasem

Corradobrit1 said:


> This one per chance. Work of art





Definitely looks gorgeous. Any idea on handle? Oak?


----------



## demirtasem

There we go. I’ve received the photos of my Wa 210mm Denka and probably it’s gonna be shipped this week. At the very last moment I added a Nashiji petty too. That’s why shipping postponed. So on the timeline it took around one month. Gaku was gentle and tried to explain honestly. But what I understand, probably after the sharpeners changed they don’t do the comparison (like Knife A - Knife B with photos) anymore like on this thread. I tried to push Gaku for that but he kindly said this is the best pick and thank me for my understanding. I don’t think I asked extraordinary knife (basically 210mm, 55mm height, thin behind the edge, flattish profile) but I don’t know maybe I’m rookie in these negotiations.  I’m curious other recent buyers experiences on that though. Also they accidentally put ebony handle and didn’t charge me extra. 

I couldn’t see any overgrinds or anything but maybe you will. (Honestly, I wouldn’t notice it though)

So this is the knife:
214mm length, 55mm height, 178g weight
Eased/rounded/polished spine and choil
Ebony handle with saya

So one thing I need to learn is how to properly paint a wooden saya. And probably read extra carefully @ModRQC 's thread.


----------



## EShin

demirtasem said:


> There we go. I’ve received the photos of my Wa 210mm Denka and probably it’s gonna be shipped this week. At the very last moment I added a Nashiji petty too. That’s why shipping postponed. So on the timeline it took around one month. Gaku was gentle and tried to explain honestly. But what I understand, probably after the sharpeners changed they don’t do the comparison (like Knife A - Knife B with photos) anymore like on this thread. I tried to push Gaku for that but he kindly said this is the best pick and thank me for my understanding. I don’t think I asked extraordinary knife (basically 210mm, 55mm height, thin behind the edge, flattish profile) but I don’t know maybe I’m rookie in these negotiations.  I’m curious other recent buyers experiences on that though. Also they accidentally put ebony handle and didn’t charge me extra.
> 
> I couldn’t see any overgrinds or anything but maybe you will. (Honestly, I wouldn’t notice it though)
> 
> So this is the knife:
> 214mm length, 55mm height, 178g weight
> Eased/rounded/polished spine and choil
> Ebony handle with saya
> 
> So one thing I need to learn is how to properly paint a wooden saya. And probably read extra carefully @ModRQC 's thread.


Congrats on a wonderful knife! As for your wishes: 55mm height might seem normal for some people here, but note that it is extraordinary for a 210mm knife - even if it was a 240mm, 55mm is taller than the average Gyuto. So this wish alone might have narrowed down the options to exactly one model, which is really nice though. As others have mentioned before, if your main interest is in using the Denka rather than collecting it, there’s no need to be worried anyway.


----------



## Corradobrit1

You got a $120 freebie right there,


----------



## demirtasem

EShin said:


> Congrats on a wonderful knife! As for your wishes: 55mm height might seem normal for some people here, but note that it is extraordinary for a 210mm knife - even if it was a 240mm, 55mm is taller than the average Gyuto. So this wish alone might have narrowed down the options to exactly one model, which is really nice though. As others have mentioned before, if your main interest is in using the Denka rather than collecting it, there’s no need to be worried anyway.




Yes maybe this was the case, thanks I didn't think that. 




Corradobrit1 said:


> You got a $120 freebie right there,



Honestly I'm so happy with that!


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

sweet knife @demirtasem

Did they change their KU finish to be more glossy? How the hell do you get kurouchi on stainless anyway?


----------



## demirtasem

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> sweet knife @demirtasem
> 
> Did they change their KU finish? How the hell do you get kurouchi on stainless anyway?




Well, as far as I know KU finish can be on stainless as well. But I'm sure others will answer this question better.


----------



## Corradobrit1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> sweet knife @demirtasem
> 
> Did they change their KU finish to be more glossy? How the hell do you get kurouchi on stainless anyway?


Its oiled which accentuates the satin finish of the Ku. And thats the TF magic.


----------



## RockyBasel

Mine just arrived today - like @demirtasem, heel Height is similar but I got a 240 mm

Here are the dimensions:
56mm heel height
246 mm heel to tip
209 gm

I am waiting for @Corradobrit1’s expert perspectives on the grind factors, if any

But this is my first Denka, I have to thank all who advised me in getting to this point

Here are the pics - I am still bad at choil shots, but I try


----------



## RockyBasel

Also, this is my second lacquer handle knife  - let’s see how it performs on carrots - @JML, for your reading pleasure


----------



## MarcelNL

Congratulations, that looks seriously good!
Also, I'm very interested to hear the 'soul factor' AKA when comparing this one's soul to the Shig as far as that is possible


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> Mine just arrived today - like @demirtasem, heel Height is similar but I got a 240 mm
> 
> Here are the dimensions:
> 56mm heel height
> 246 mm heel to tip
> 209 gm
> 
> I am waiting for @Corradobrit1’s expert perspectives on the grind factors, if any
> 
> But this is my first Denka, I have to thank all who advised me in getting to this point
> 
> Here are the pics - I am still bad at choil shots, but I try


Can you get a better pic of the choil? That one you posted gives the impression it has more of a lefthanded grind.


----------



## lemeneid

209g is a little light, especially considering the urushi handle. But nice knife nonetheless. Give it a go and let us know how you feel about it.


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> Can you get a better pic of the choil? That one you posted gives the impression it has more of a lefthanded grind.



Will send one later on today - used different camera


----------



## RockyBasel

lemeneid said:


> 209g is a little light, especially considering the urushi handle. But nice knife nonetheless. Give it a go and let us know how you feel about it.


Most definitely - thanks again for your perspectives along the journey.

September has been a knife month:
2 Shigs - Kitaeji and Kasumi
1 Kato 
1 Denka

Quite a haul - no regrets whatsoever!

Time to clear out some knives though, and hit BST!


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> Most definitely - thanks again for your perspectives along the journey.
> 
> September has been a knife month:
> 2 Shigs - Kitaeji and Kasumi
> 1 Kato
> 1 Denka
> 
> Quite a haul - no regrets whatsoever!
> 
> Time to clear out some knives though, and hit BST!


I feel a carrot comparo coming.


----------



## tchan001

RockyBasel said:


> Most definitely - thanks again for your perspectives along the journey.
> 
> September has been a knife month:
> 2 Shigs - Kitaeji and Kasumi
> 1 Kato
> 1 Denka
> 
> Quite a haul - no regrets whatsoever!
> 
> Time to clear out some knives though, and hit BST!


Second coming of JML. Buyer of unicorns.
Nice haul indeed.


----------



## RockyBasel

Corradobrit1 said:


> I feel a carrot comparo coming.


----------



## RockyBasel

tchan001 said:


> Second coming of JML. Buyer of unicorns.
> Nice haul indeed.


 as if the first coming was not enough..... but wait, what do you mean by second coming, how do you define second? What is second was actually first?, is coming the inverse of going?


----------



## RockyBasel

tchan001 said:


> Second coming of JML. Buyer of unicorns.
> Nice haul indeed.


Thanks for the support - could not have got some of these otherwise l


----------



## ma_sha1

Stock Shig. Kasumi is a head turner but average cutter, the physics of low bevel style dictates that the edge approach angle being higher than average. However, I’ve not had kitaeji, very curious if the grind & the thickness behind edge is different than Kasumi?


----------



## RockyBasel

ma_sha1 said:


> Stock Shig. Kasumi is a head turner but average cutter, the physics of low bevel style dictates that the edge approach angle being higher than average. However, I’ve not had kitaeji, very curious if the grind & the thickness behind edge is different than Kasumi?


My Kasumi costs like a dream at around 205 gems. It is delightful. Have not tried the Kitaeji yet, but will do so this week. It’s made of unobtanium so seems to brazenly violate some laws of physics


----------



## ma_sha1

RockyBasel said:


> My Kasumi costs like a dream at around 205 gems. It is delightful. Have not tried the Kitaeji yet, but will do so this week. It’s made of unobtanium so seems to brazenly violate some laws of physics



Comon men, do not cut with emotion & allow placebo effect to affect you. We may need you to test these knives under clinical trial “double blind” standard to know the truth


----------



## RockyBasel

ma_sha1 said:


> Comon men, do not cut with emotion & allow placebo effect to affect you. We may need you to test these knives under clinical trial “double blind” standard to know the truth


True - blind cutting test is the only way - as long as I don’t nip anything


----------



## tchan001

ma_sha1 said:


> Comon men, do not cut with emotion & allow placebo effect to affect you. We may need you to test these knives under clinical trial “double blind” standard to know the truth


Somehow I don't think RockyBasel will "cut with emotion" regarding his unicorns the same way as you do, ma_sha1. Don't give him strange ideas. Just stop.


----------



## MarcelNL

The art of Zen cutting


----------



## ma_sha1

MarcelNL said:


> The art of Zen cutting





Is it just me or the guy actually missed the target ?


----------



## MarcelNL

is the target the goal or the exercise of concentrating by letting go?


----------



## RockyBasel

tchan001 said:


> Somehow I don't think RockyBasel will "cut with emotion" regarding his unicorns the same way as you do, ma_sha1. Don't give him strange ideas. Just stop.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> I was pretty emotional after cutting some onions - tears were flowing


----------



## simar

ma_sha1 said:


> Is it just me or the guy actually missed the target ?


Yes he missed a target face, the goal was not to stick the arrow in the target anyway.


----------



## RockyBasel

simar said:


> Yes he missed a target face, the goal was not to stick the arrow in the target anyway.


The goal was meditation and finding one’s true inner self - the point of focus and tension and breath control made for complete unison thereby abandoning the duality of existence for a single moment and attaining bliss

If you catch my drift that is


----------



## ma_sha1

Looks like I am far far away from Zen land 
Why put up a target if the whole point is not to hit it?


----------



## josemartinlopez

lemeneid said:


> 209g is a little light, especially considering the urushi handle.


it's heavy


----------



## Corradobrit1

Back on subject,,,,,,,,, TFTFTFTFTF


----------



## MarcelNL

Zen is on target in a TF thread, as you'll need to master Zen to come to grips with being happy with what you got ;-)


----------



## Corradobrit1

MarcelNL said:


> Zen is on target in a TF thread, as you'll need to master Zen to come to grips with being happy with what you got ;-)


She must have gotten a TF for Xmas


----------



## RockyBasel

ma_sha1 said:


> Looks like I am far far away from Zen land
> Why put up a target if the whole point is not to hit it?


Your question contains the answer young paduan


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> Your question contains the answer young paduan


Isn't that a Morpheus line from the Matrix?


----------



## ma_sha1

RockyBasel said:


> Your question contains the answer young paduan



So I am already a Zen master, just didn’t realize ?


----------



## RockyBasel

ma_sha1 said:


> So I am already a Zen master, just didn’t realize ?


I think you were born a master


----------



## M1k3

ma_sha1 said:


> Looks like I am far far away from Zen land
> Why put up a target if the whole point is not to hit it?


Exactly like the TF business model. F&F is the target in that video.


----------



## RockyBasel

M1k3 said:


> Exactly like the TF business model. F&F is the target in that video.


Oh, that’s really good! Cracking me up


----------



## Receiver52

Trigger pulled . Red Pakka 210 Denka from Gaku. 213, 52 and 212 grams. Can’t see any overgrinds in the pics and Gaku assured me that there are none. F&F on the handle looks good.

Should ship tomorrow or Thur.

Excited


----------



## tchan001

Be sure to show us some pics when you get it.


----------



## Receiver52

For sure.


----------



## FishmanDE

Im late to the party on this and not reading 12pgs of **** posting. Hows the OP doing? Trigger pulled?


----------



## Corradobrit1

FishmanDE said:


> Im late to the party on this and not reading 12pgs of **** posting. Hows the OP doing? Trigger pulled?


Not been seen since the 20th, so I assume he's in TF nirvana. GAME OVER


----------



## simar

M1k3 said:


> Exactly like the TF business model. F&F is the target in that video.



Just waiting for the TF fan base to come for you


----------



## M1k3

Receiver52 said:


> Trigger pulled . Red Pakka 210 Denka from Gaku. 213, 52 and 212 grams. Can’t see any overgrinds in the pics and Gaku assured me that there are none. F&F on the handle looks good.
> 
> Should ship tomorrow or Thur.
> 
> Excited


Did you ask for extra or standard lovin' on the spine and choil? 

Nice measurements though.


----------



## M1k3

simar said:


> Just waiting for the TF fan base to come for you


Bring it?


----------



## Carl Kotte

One thing that’s great with tf is that you don’t have to hammer them straight yourself. And the plastic ferrule  on the wa version. Slowly moonwalking away


----------



## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> One thing that’s great with tf is that you don’t have to hammer them straight yourself. And the plastic ferrule  on the wa version. Slowly moonwalking away


Did yours come with a right or left handed curve?


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> Did yours come with a right or left handed curve?


Both!


----------



## IsoJ

I believe Calle had a genuine s-grind but in the wrong place


----------



## Receiver52

M1k3 said:


> Did you ask for extra or standard lovin' on the spine and choil?
> 
> Nice measurements though.



I didn’t mention Choil and spine refinement in my ask but did request that the handle and bolster F&F be refined from the pics I saw. Gagu said it was just a bad pic so we will see. I also asked for a thinner grind and told him I did not wish to be thinning this knife OOTB. Based on the spine dimensions he gave me, I’m hoping that this will be the case. The Choil shot he sent shows pretty thin behind the edge so I’m optimistic.

It shipped yesterday by EMS. Anyone want to start a lottery on days to arrive to Canada?


----------



## josemartinlopez

The 212 grams puts it on the lighter side of a 210mm Denka right?


----------



## Corradobrit1

josemartinlopez said:


> The 212 grams puts it on the lighter side of a 210mm Denka right?


Not really. My 210 Yo Denka is 174g


----------



## josemartinlopez

It came that way or was it thinned?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Thinned by TF IV. Was 179g prior to thinning.


----------



## Carl Kotte

josemartinlopez said:


> The 212 grams puts it on the lighter side of a 210mm Denka right?


Are denkas heavy?


----------



## ma_sha1

Carl Kotte said:


> Both!



You must have gotten one specially made for cutting curly fries, those are super rare!


----------



## ma_sha1

Corradobrit1 said:


> Not really. My 210 Yo Denka is 174g



The 210 Western Denka I had weight in at 201g.

TF specs can be all over the place. When I was purchasing my 210 Maborodhi direct, they had blades with heel heights ranging from 44 mm to 53 mm, I don’t think those could have been made by the same person.


----------



## M1k3

ma_sha1 said:


> TF specs can be all over the place. When I was purchasing my 210 Maborodhi direct, they had blades with heel heights ranging from 44 mm to 53 mm, I don’t think those could have been made by the same person.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Friends don't let friends buy TF's blind.


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 96922


True! I wanted the full TF experience. I got it! It wasn’t very much like chocolate though. More like box full of fox.


----------



## M1k3

Corradobrit1 said:


> Friends don't let friends buy TF's blind.


What about my blind friends?

And if the knives are so "magical", why do you have to communicate with them like you are working with a custom maker? For what is essentially an "off the shelf" knife. And it's still a gamble because pictures don't show 100% of defects. While hoping all corners and edges are just smooth enough to handle, much less smooth enough to not dig into your skin.


----------



## Corradobrit1

M1k3 said:


> What about my blind friends?


Blind friends need even more assistance as they can't see the pics  

I see the communication an added and welcome benefit. The knife to knife variation is substantial and its good to get what you prefer be it grind, profile, weight or dimensions. The hunt is half the fun and I've not been disappointed with any of the 5 knives I bought direct.


----------



## M1k3

Corradobrit1 said:


> Blind friends need even more assistance as they can't see the pics
> 
> I see the communication an added and welcome benefit. The knife to knife variation is substantial and its good to get what you prefer be it grind, profile, weight or dimensions. The hunt is half the fun and I've not been disappointed with any of the 5 knives I bought direct.


 

So Gaku or Lord TF like playing 20 questions. Digital tag. Instead of a simple "What spec you want? Length, height and weight. I show you 5 picture. You buy."


----------



## parbaked

M1k3 said:


> So Gaku or Lord TF like playing 20 questions. Digital tag. Instead of a simple "What spec you want? Length, height and weight. I show you 5 picture. You buy."


They're not making custom knives...just trying to pick the one from inventory that matches the customer's desires.


----------



## Corradobrit1

M1k3 said:


> So Gaku or Lord TF like playing 20 questions. Digital tag. Instead of a simple "What spec you want? Length, height and weight. I show you 5 picture. You buy."


Clearly not a TF aficionado. No worries. There are enough knifemakers out there to make everyone happy.


----------



## Receiver52

I started the conversation about a month ago and told Gaku what I wanted then. He sent me pics this week of the knife that was made for me and based on the pics and communication, I put the payment through. It’s almost a custom experience. Still not sure what I’m going to get until it’s in my hand but this is always the case when you buy online.

Short of a trip to Japan, buying on BST or finding a knife shop that has several to compare, you take your chances and hope you win the prize. As long as no overgrind, pretty much anything else can be fixed and I have lots of time. At this price, one hopes that the knife is really good to start so i‘ve started hoping.


----------



## ian

All TF threads:


----------



## parbaked

ian said:


> All TF threads:


TF > JML


----------



## FishmanDE

M1k3 said:


> So Gaku or Lord TF like playing 20 questions. Digital tag. Instead of a simple "What spec you want? Length, height and weight. I show you 5 picture. You buy."



bruh, I can’t with the new avatar


----------



## lemeneid

The people who complain about wonky grinds on TF are basically the same people who praise western makers who have even more sh1t grinds on their knives.

Fact


----------



## FishmanDE

lemeneid said:


> The people who complain about wonky grinds on TF are basically the same people who praise western makers who have even more sh1t grinds on their knives.
> 
> Fact



no horse in this race here, but Playing devils avocado, pretty sure those western makers aren’t charging the same exorbitant prices as TF


----------



## lemeneid

FishmanDE said:


> no horse in this race here, but Playing devils avocado, pretty sure those western makers aren’t charging the same exorbitant prices as TF


Nope, those western makers are charging same or higher than TF.


----------



## parbaked

lemeneid said:


> The people who complain about wonky grinds on TF are basically the same people who praise western makers who have even more sh1t grinds on their knives. Fact



The people who complain about wonky grinds on TF are basically swine who are not worthy of pearls....fact!


----------



## M1k3

lemeneid said:


> Nope, those western makers are charging same or higher than TF.


Depends on which maker. I got a custom and you know what I had to do to it to make it usable? Nope, didn't have to send it out to a professional to make it usable. I just had to take it out of the box, wash off the oil and get to work. Yeah, it came sharpened also.

And I didn't have to play 20 questions. There was quite a bit of communicating, but, it was the maker sharing the process.

All I'm really saying is, TF is held up like some God and everyone else is inferior. Yet these new TF's generally need a lot of work, not always though.


----------



## ian

TF makes knives with consistently good steel, not great f&f, and grinds with inconsistent quality, some good, many needing work. They are also somewhat expensive. Is there really anything else to say in this thread? 

Sometimes I think all this talk about choosing things in person or going over pictures of 10 knives carefully from all angles just heightens the mystique, and makes more people interested in them, which is stupid.


----------



## Alder26

ian said:


> TF makes knives with consistently good steel, not great f&f, and grinds with inconsistent quality, some good, many needing work. They are also somewhat expensive. Is there really anything else to say in this thread?
> 
> Sometimes I think all this talk about choosing things in person or going over pictures of 10 knives carefully from all angles just heightens the mystique, and makes more people interested in them, which is stupid.



I totally agree. I think it's a little like gambling. Worst case scenario you get a knife that you will have to shave several mm off of to fix over grinds, straighten a blade at both the spine and edge, thin, reprofile, and re handle. Best case scenario you get the knife you were hoping for. In the back of your head your thinking "maybe if I'm really careful and ask all the right questions I'll get a good one", and then your roll the dice. 

I have been burned buying TF knives more than I have had success, but every once in a while I get the itch.....And then usually I spend 15-20 hours fixing the knife when I could have bought a Mazaki, Watanabe, etc. for less money and just had a usable knife out of the box.


----------



## M1k3




----------



## M1k3

Alder26 said:


> I totally agree. I think it's a little like gambling. Worst case scenario you get a knife that you will have to shave several mm off of to fix over grinds, straighten a blade at both the spine and edge, thin, reprofile, and re handle. Best case scenario you get the knife you were hoping for. In the back of your head your thinking "maybe if I'm really careful and ask all the right questions I'll get a good one", and then your roll the dice.
> 
> I have been burned buying TF knives more than I have had success, but every once in a while I get the itch.....And then usually I spend 15-20 hours fixing the knife when I could have bought a Mazaki, Watanabe, etc. for less money and just had a usable knife out of the box.


----------



## juice

ian said:


> Is there really anything else to say in this thread?


Is there a less realistic question that could be asked in this forum? Hmmm?


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> Is there a less realistic question that could be asked in this forum? Hmmm?


Have you watched Burrfection? Peruse the new knife blog floating around?


----------



## Carl Kotte

Laminated blades warp easily it seems. Easier on knives from certain makers than others. Buyers - have your hammers ready!


----------



## M1k3

"How often do you hear people say ’this brand is really great, you just have to go through a special delivery process to avoid the bad specimens’?" - A Wiseman


----------



## soigne_west

Name one other knife that sells for the price of tf that people constantly have to put HOURS of work into to bring out its full potential.


----------



## M1k3

soigne_west said:


> Name one other knife that sells for the price of tf that people constantly have to put HOURS of work into to bring out its full potential.


Nashiji, Mabawhata or Denka prices? What length? Because the 240mm+ ones are "extra $$$pecial"


----------



## parbaked

FishmanDE said:


> no horse in this race here, but Playing devils avocado, pretty sure those western makers aren’t charging the same exorbitant prices as TF


I can think of one but her knives come with a cheese grater, so I guess it's really not apples to apples...


----------



## FishmanDE

TFTFTFTFTFTFTF


----------



## parbaked

M1k3 said:


> Nashiji, Mabawhata or Denka prices? What length? Because the 240mm+ ones are "extra $$$pecial"


TF charges based on what it costs him to make stuff, right or wrong.

Anything over 210 takes a lot more time for them. Maybe he uses child labor with short arms??
The pre-laminated Nashiji knives are easy to make so they're cheap.
The Mabawhatas cost more than Nashiji because laminating the stainless clad billets is a pain.
Denka cost even more because welding up the AS billets and forging to shape, grinding, tapering the tang and sharpening are all even more difficult.
He can sell iron clad knives to Morihei cheap because those are relatively easy to forge, grind and sharpen.
They'll polish your choil for you if you ask nice...
It's not a scam or conspiracy...it's just they way they value their time.


----------



## Corradobrit1

parbaked said:


> TF charges based on what it costs him to make stuff, right or wrong.
> 
> Anything over 210 takes a lot more time for them. Maybe he uses child labor with short arms??
> The pre-laminated Nashiji knives are easy to make so they're cheap.
> The Mabawhatas cost more than Nashiji because laminating the stainless clad billets is a pain.
> Denka cost even more because welding up the AS billets and forging to shape, grinding, tapering the tang and sharpening are all even more difficult.
> He can sell iron clad knives to Morihei cheap because those are relatively easy to forge, grinding sharpen.
> They'll polish your choil for you if you ask nice...
> It's not a scam or conspiracy...it's just they way they value their time.


Thank you.

Personally I have no issues with 20 questions if the person is amiable and passionate about their product. We only hear about the bad knives and those are generally from a couple plus years ago (knife nerds have long memories). Has anyone received a lemon in the last 12 months direct after dropping their 20 ?'s?


----------



## juice

parbaked said:


> Maybe he uses child labor with short arms??


----------



## josemartinlopez

Would you say there's a premium on that time though? That a stainless clad TF Denka costs more than a Tsukasa Hinoura knife (non River Jump) with similar specs?


----------



## M1k3

parbaked said:


> TF charges based on what it costs him to make stuff, right or wrong.
> 
> Anything over 210 takes a lot more time for them. Maybe he uses child labor with short arms??
> The pre-laminated Nashiji knives are easy to make so they're cheap.
> The Mabawhatas cost more than Nashiji because laminating the stainless clad billets is a pain.
> Denka cost even more because welding up the AS billets and forging to shape, grinding, tapering the tang and sharpening are all even more difficult.
> He can sell iron clad knives to Morihei cheap because those are relatively easy to forge, grinding sharpen.
> They'll polish your choil for you if you ask nice...
> It's not a scam or conspiracy...it's just they way they value their time.


This answers the question I had how? Just asking for a price point to answer his question and you get all defensive.


----------



## M1k3

Corradobrit1 said:


> Thank you.


For totally missing the question he responded to?


----------



## tchan001

So you are paying extra for TFs with overgrind because that is extra labor costs.

Then you pay even more to have a professional sharpener help you perfect the TF you just bought. LOL


----------



## soigne_west

No one answered my question...


----------



## M1k3

josemartinlopez said:


> Would you say there's a premium on that time though? That a stainless clad TF Denka costs more than a Tsukasa Hinoura knife (non River Jump) with similar specs?


Apparently so. Hinoura also isn't a gamble in the f&f, overgrind, straight spine and 20 question shuffle.


----------



## soigne_west

M1k3 said:


> Apparently so. Hinoura also isn't a gamble in the f&f, overgrind, straight spine and 20 question shuffle.



Actually the only others I can think of with similar issues are tojiro shirogami and the tosa blue’s. And their like $60.


----------



## parbaked

M1k3 said:


> This answers the question I had how? Just asking for a price point to answer his question and you get all defensive.


Not defensive, just trying to explain why TF charges what he charges and why the 240 cost more.
Not sure if this answers the question...


soigne_west said:


> Name one other knife that sells for the price of tf that people constantly have to put HOURS of work into to bring out its full potential.


Most of TF customer's don't because whatever knife they bought from TF exceed their expectations.
It's the small minority that worry about the details of the knife they buy as long as it works better than what hey had.

Takeda NAS got a similar bad rap but also have a lot of customers that like those knives.


----------



## FishmanDE

I think at the end of the day, the point is you don't need to drop this kind of money and stress over all these correspondence to get a great knife. TF is I'm sure amazing, but I highly doubt it deserves all of the clout. Is it better than any other knife you've ever tried? obviously, otherwise it wouldn't garner the price tag. But is it THAT much better than a knife thats half the price with equal craftsmanship? probably not. If we could get back to my mazaki drama now, that'd be great. thx


----------



## tchan001

As I had mentioned elsewhere, one of the factors which convinced me to purchase a Denka is the BST ad where a member sold many of his other unicorns cheaply because he found THE ONE and that was the Denka.






SOLD - WTS Kato workhorse/Shig/Ikeda Suminagashi


Hello Everybody. I’ve been mostly a lurker on these forums for years and eventually stopped collecting knives after finding the perfect knife for me which happens to be a TF Denka. Looking to sell off a few knives that I’ve picked up over the years either on this forum or website. Thank you for...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## Corradobrit1

FishmanDE said:


> TF is I'm sure amazing, but I highly doubt it deserves all of the clout. Is it better than any other knife you've ever tried? obviously, otherwise it wouldn't garner the price tag. But is it THAT much better than a knife thats half the price with equal craftsmanship? probably not. If we could get back to my mazaki drama now, that'd be great. thx


Clearly you haven't tried one. And TF bashing was a thing way before Naoki 'don't buy my Dammy' Mazaki came on the scene.


----------



## M1k3

Blind fanboy is blind.


----------



## tchan001

This a TF thread. You can always move on over to the Mazaki thread for your Mazaki drama.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Why do people complain about F&F. What's stopping people from buying a handle-less blank or a thicker blank with only a primary bevel ground, and then just finishing it solo or sending it out for a bevel and edge?

It's well-established that TF couldn't give a flying duck about aesthetics and fine finish, and then people go buy them (especially yo handles) and complain about the finish of a knife costing that much. Overgrinds too - if you're buying a 700 dollar knife, why is the price to have it ground to spec prohibitive?


----------



## josemartinlopez

FishmanDE said:


> TF is I'm sure amazing, but I highly doubt it deserves all of the clout. Is it better than any other knife you've ever tried? obviously, otherwise it wouldn't garner the price tag. But is it THAT much better than a knife thats half the price with equal craftsmanship? probably not.


It's a great knife, but I'd have to agree that the hype is getting counterproductive. I certainly wouldn't give up all other knives just because I got a set of TF Denkas with a perfectly even blade road.


----------



## tchan001

josemartinlopez said:


> I got a set of TF Denkas with a perfectly even blade road.


Amazing to have such a set. Now where are the pictures?


----------



## M1k3

josemartinlopez said:


> It's a great knife, but I'd have to agree that the hype is getting counterproductive. I certainly wouldn't give up all other knives just because I got a set of TF Denkas with a perfectly even blade road.


How do they like, you know, cut?


----------



## FishmanDE

tchan001 said:


> This a TF thread. You can always move on over to the Mazaki thread for your Mazaki drama.



It was a joke, learn to take one


----------



## FishmanDE

Corradobrit1 said:


> Clearly you haven't tried one. And TF bashing was a thing way before Naoki 'don't buy my Dammy' Mazaki came on the scene.



Clearly I haven't, But I don't think that's the argument at hand. At the end of the day, its a knife. It cuts things, albeit very well, but does that warrant the extra cost and hassle? I'm willing to bet no


----------



## lemeneid

FishmanDE said:


> I think at the end of the day, the point is you don't need to drop this kind of money and stress over all these correspondence to get a great knife. TF is I'm sure amazing, but I highly doubt it deserves all of the clout. Is it better than any other knife you've ever tried? obviously, otherwise it wouldn't garner the price tag. But is it THAT much better than a knife thats half the price with equal craftsmanship? probably not. If we could get back to my mazaki drama now, that'd be great. thx


I never bugged them, I just dropped them an email with size and specs and the knives all turned out perfect.


----------



## FishmanDE

lemeneid said:


> I never bugged them, I just dropped them an email with size and specs and the knives all turned out perfect.



Out of curiosity, was that before or after you placed an order? I reached out to them a while back and got no response.


----------



## josemartinlopez

FishmanDE said:


> It was a joke, learn to take one


He was also joking


----------



## FishmanDE

josemartinlopez said:


> He was also joking


Not sure he was


----------



## josemartinlopez

He is, RockyBasel also starts TF discussions in Mazaki threads so have a laugh.


----------



## Carl Kotte

soigne_west said:


> Actually the only others I can think of with similar issues are tojiro shirogami and the tosa blue’s. And their like $60.


This has been my experience too. Munetoshi is another offender. But they are 200$ or so. And I love them


----------



## EShin

FishmanDE said:


> Clearly I haven't, But I don't think that's the argument at hand. At the end of the day, its a knife. It cuts things, albeit very well, but does that warrant the extra cost and hassle? I'm willing to bet no


Happy I bought my Denka a few years back, when the answer was, at least for me, a clear yes. TFs are made to be superb cutters and are world-class cutters indeed. However, at current price levels, they have to be collectibles as well which might be hard to justify (as the 14 pages of this thread exhibit ). Anyway, if you're after knives that just cut things very well, look out for knives that aren't mentioned very often and almost never popup at BST.


----------



## demirtasem

Today I received my knife and saw this kanji attached. Is that mean TF himself forged this? or am I wrong?


----------



## Corradobrit1

demirtasem said:


> Today I received my knife and saw this kanji attached. Is that mean TF himself forged this? or am I wrong?


Thats the regular Denka kanji.


----------



## Runner_up

That's the normal denka kanji

EDIT: Corradobrit beat me to the punch


----------



## RockyBasel

parbaked said:


> I can think of one but her knives come with a cheese grater, so I guess it's really not apples to apples...


CMCMCMCMCMCM


----------



## demirtasem

Corradobrit1 said:


> Thats the regular Denka kanji.






Runner_up said:


> That's the normal denka kanji
> 
> EDIT: Corradobrit beat me to the punch



Thank you guys!


----------



## RockyBasel

I used my new Denka this weekend a bit - have to say, it was a joy cutting, slicing, dicing with it. Glides through tomatoes, it seems to have a toothy cut, grabs on, almost sticks to the surface, until it slices through

Too early to tell clearly, but it’s growing on me very nicely.
The heel height also gives a nice dimension and feel to the process. Feels differen

now, I did get the lacquer handle, but Imit was a thick handle, so not that much slipping. The red handle looks striking though.

also, the blade is this purple-burgundy color on the top. Looks striking - not that looks are anything, but it does add something to the experience

is Denka KU? Would you describe it as a KU?

I grabbed my Shig Kasumi 240 to quickly compare cutting onions and tomatoes side by side

Denka better cutter, but Shig tip work with tiny shallots was unbelievable - Shig seemed better for tip work

but cutting ability overall?

those were my first impressions - nothing like the 2 month amazing Kaiju review today by @Omega today - incredible write up


----------



## sliceanddicebaby

RockyBasel said:


> I used my new Denka this weekend a bit - have to say, it was a joy cutting, slicing, dicing with it. Glides through tomatoes, it seems to have a toothy cut, grabs on, almost sticks to the surface, until it slices through
> 
> Too early to tell clearly, but it’s growing on me very nicely.
> The heel height also gives a nice dimension and feel to the process. Feels differen
> 
> now, I did get the lacquer handle, but Imit was a thick handle, so not that much slipping. The red handle looks striking though.
> 
> also, the blade is this purple-burgundy color on the top. Looks striking - not that looks are anything, but it does add something to the experience
> 
> is Denka KU? Would you describe it as a KU?
> 
> I grabbed my Shig Kasumi 240 to quickly compare cutting onions and tomatoes side by side
> 
> Denka better cutter, but Shig tip work with tiny shallots was unbelievable - Shig seemed better for tip work
> 
> but cutting ability overall?
> 
> those were my first impressions - nothing like the 2 month amazing Kaiju review today by @Omega today - incredible write up



Yes, it's got a Kurouchi finish. 

However, it's not a "genuine" KU finish in my opinion. By that, I mean the color you see is most probably not a direct product of the forging process. There's some pickling that goes on in the factory to get that black stuff to deposit onto the knife.


----------



## RockyBasel

sliceanddicebaby said:


> Yes, it's got a Kurouchi finish.
> 
> However, it's not a "genuine" KU finish in my opinion. By that, I mean the color you see is most probably not a direct product of the forging process. There's some pickling that goes on in the factory to get that black stuff to deposit onto the knife.



thats exactly why I asked the question - it was unlike my Mazaki (uh-oh) KU or that of my Heiji, and I did

not that I want to introduce Mazaki into the Denka thread and vice-versa, well, I kinda do


----------



## EShin

demirtasem said:


> Today I received my knife and saw this kanji attached. Is that mean TF himself forged this? or am I wrong?


Exactly - it reads "Fujiwara Teruyasu saku"


----------



## sliceanddicebaby

EShin said:


> Exactly - it reads "Fujiwara Teruyasu saku"



He's probably thinking of the Tou Cou mark, which are the top two pictured below.


----------



## tchan001

RockyBasel said:


> I used my new Denka this weekend a bit - have to say, it was a joy cutting, slicing, dicing with it. Glides through tomatoes, it seems to have a toothy cut, grabs on, almost sticks to the surface, until it slices through
> 
> Too early to tell clearly, but it’s growing on me very nicely.
> The heel height also gives a nice dimension and feel to the process. Feels differen
> 
> now, I did get the lacquer handle, but Imit was a thick handle, so not that much slipping. The red handle looks striking though.
> 
> also, the blade is this purple-burgundy color on the top. Looks striking - not that looks are anything, but it does add something to the experience
> 
> is Denka KU? Would you describe it as a KU?
> 
> I grabbed my Shig Kasumi 240 to quickly compare cutting onions and tomatoes side by side
> 
> Denka better cutter, but Shig tip work with tiny shallots was unbelievable - Shig seemed better for tip work
> 
> but cutting ability overall?
> 
> those were my first impressions - nothing like the 2 month amazing Kaiju review today by @Omega today - incredible write up


Pictures please


----------



## RockyBasel

tchan001 said:


> Pictures please


 here you go


----------



## juice

#StickerOnHandleAlert

[I'm going to have to make a macro for that at this rate...]


----------



## Carl Kotte

RockyBasel said:


> here you go
> View attachment 97536
> View attachment 97537
> View attachment 97538


It still has the ootb edge?


----------



## RockyBasel

Yes, OOTB and so much so, that it still has stickers 

Sticklers - guilty as charged

I basically took the knife out, marveled at it, took some pics (with stickers) - and


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Alright, I'm throwing my hat in the mix. First gyuto. She's been through a lot. Fixed her up today - well enough to cut at least. Let's see what this denka hype is about.


----------



## tchan001

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Alright, I'm throwing my hat in the mix. First gyuto. She's been through a lot. Fixed her up today - well enough to cut at least. Let's see what this denka hype is about.
> View attachment 98102


I thought you would show us the Denka nakiri.



[URL


----------



## TSF415

I just caught up on the last 5 pages of this thread. I really miss this entertainment. 

I have 5 TF's. Got a great price on all of them and think they're pretty cool. But I would never use the word perfect to describe one of them and I'd never pay sticker price for one. (other than the Nashiji petty for $100)


----------



## IsoJ

tchan001 said:


> I thought you would show us the Denka nakiri.
> 
> 
> 
> [URL


I just love how the finish does not remind of rust at all.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

tchan001 said:


> I thought you would show us the Denka nakiri.
> 
> 
> 
> [URL



Everyone has been telling me that a gyuto can do everything a nakiri can, and then some. I don't really see it, so I figured I'd get a denka, thin it down, give it a flat spot, and see if I reach for it over my nakiri.


----------



## TSF415

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Everyone has been telling me that a gyuto can do everything a nakiri can, and then some. I don't really see it, so I figured I'd get a denka, thin it down, give it a flat spot, and see if I reach for it over my nakiri. We'll see what happens, maybe I can trade it for a 165mm denka wa handle.



A 240mm Gyuto with a nice flat spot can do everything a 165mm Nakiri can do. If you have the board space and skill, I think a Nakiri is obsolete but if you don't have the board space, a Nakiri is a great knife for plowing thru veg.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

TSF415 said:


> A 240mm Gyuto with a nice flat spot can do everything a 165mm Nakiri can do. If you have the board space and skill, I think a Nakiri is obsolete but if you don't have the board space, a Nakiri is a great knife for plowing thru veg.



Why waste money, buy more mm when few mm do trick?


----------



## soigne_west

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Why waste money, buy more mm when few mm do trick?


----------



## M1k3

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Everyone has been telling me that a gyuto can do everything a nakiri can, and then some. I don't really see it, so I figured I'd get a denka, thin it down, give it a flat spot, and see if I reach for it over my nakiri.


You can always turn it into a Nakiri (❛‿❛)


----------



## TSF415

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Why waste money, buy more mm when few mm do trick?




Because sometimes you need to do other tricks


----------



## labor of love

Carl Kotte said:


> One thing that’s great with tf is that you don’t have to hammer them straight yourself. And the plastic ferrule  on the wa version. Slowly moonwalking away


Over Grinda
Ive been pressing too long on the belts and wheels 
Oh what's becomin' of me
Ride the tiger
You can chase him on the blade road to eternity 
Oh don't you see what I mean
Gotta get away, get away
Over grinda


----------



## labor of love




----------



## tminus

Ok so I read this thread and did the damn thing lol. Contacted Gaku for a 210 with red pakka handle, taller profile, even blade road, and good ff. He wants to send me this:

Height : 53mm
Length : 214mm
Weight : 206g

Knife looks pretty good to me but I don't have a ton of experience spotting overgrinds - anyone catch any obvious flaws from the photos?

Also as Gaku explained it, they botched the stamp - it says "Teruyasu Teruyasu saku". What do you all think - cool USP or trying to pawn off a defect? Personally, seems like a good story to tell.


----------



## panda

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Everyone has been telling me that a gyuto can do everything a nakiri can, and then some. I don't really see it, so I figured I'd get a denka, thin it down, give it a flat spot, and see if I reach for it over my nakiri.


nakiri is the second most useless popular knife after yanagi.


----------



## RockyBasel

panda said:


> nakiri is the second most useless popular knife after yanagi.


Blasphemy!!!!

There is a whole thread devoted to Nakiri lovers


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

panda said:


> nakiri is the second most useless popular knife after yanagi.



so true!!!!

if anyone's made the mistake of buying a useless nakiri, I'll see you on BST 
I have a ranch for this sort of thing you see...

@tminus fun story, but I doubt it would be a USP and sell for _more_ because of a botched stamp.


----------



## Corradobrit1

panda said:


> nakiri is the second most useless popular knife after yanagi.


So true. Ma_sha has seen the light and offers a rehabilitation service to remedy this conundrum.


----------



## labor of love

RockyBasel said:


> Blasphemy!!!!
> 
> There is a whole thread devoted to Nakiri lovers


I think one of the stripes on the rainbow flag represents Nakiri lovers aka Nakirosexuality


----------



## RockyBasel

labor of love said:


> I think one of the stripes on the rainbow flag represents Nakiri lovers aka Nakirosexuality



 you are cracking me up!


----------



## tminus

labor of love said:


> I think one of the stripes on the rainbow flag represents Nakiri lovers aka Nakirosexuality


If you're interested but don't own, does that make you Nakurious?


----------



## RockyBasel

Ok -‘keep it going folks


----------



## labor of love

I like cleavers. Guess that makes me a size queen.


----------



## tminus

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> so true!!!!
> 
> if anyone's made the mistake of buying a useless nakiri, I'll see you on BST
> I have a ranch for this sort of thing you see...
> 
> @tminus fun story, but I doubt it would be a USP and sell for _more_ because of a botched stamp.


Fair enough but do you think it could adversely affect a resale?


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> I think one of the stripes on the rainbow flag represents Nakiri lovers aka Nakirosexuality


x2


----------



## DitmasPork

tminus said:


> Ok so I read this thread and did the damn thing lol. Contacted Gaku for a 210 with red pakka handle, taller profile, even blade road, and good ff. He wants to send me this:
> 
> Height : 53mm
> Length : 214mm
> Weight : 206g
> 
> Knife looks pretty good to me but I don't have a ton of experience spotting overgrinds - anyone catch any obvious flaws from the photos?
> 
> Also as Gaku explained it, they botched the stamp - it says "Teruyasu Teruyasu saku". What do you all think - cool USP or trying to pawn off a defect? Personally, seems like a good story to tell.



The botched stamp is truly awesome!!!! Instantly increases in value (probably)—akin to typos and major printing errors on postage stamps.

Unique. Highly collectible. TTTTTTTTTTTT


----------



## Corradobrit1

DitmasPork said:


> The botched stamp is truly awesome!!!! Instantly increases in value (probably)—akin to typos and major printing errors on postage stamps.
> 
> Unique. Highly collectible. TTTTTTTTTTTT


Agreed. Buy it before someone else does. I also like color tone of that handle.


----------



## DitmasPork

Corradobrit1 said:


> Agreed. Buy it before someone else does. I also like color tone of that handle.


Yeah, good looking knife IMO. One could refer to this 'Teruyasu Teruyasu' knife simple as a 'Titty' knife.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

labor of love said:


> I think one of the stripes on the rainbow flag represents Nakiri lovers aka Nakirosexuality



did you think the flag is rectangle by coincidence 

@tminus agreed with the above, the rest of the knife looks real good, I'd pull the trigger.


----------



## panda

RockyBasel said:


> Blasphemy!!!!
> 
> There is a whole thread devoted to Nakiri lovers


those are all the people who always got picked last for any games during recess.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

panda said:


> those are all the people who always got picked last for any games during recess.



Worse things can happen, such as ordering a denka and replacing the steel with shirogami 1


----------



## M1k3

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Worse things can happen, such as ordering a denka and replacing the steel with shirogami 1


----------



## ian

I usually use white paper to wipe my AS, not instead of it. #confused


----------



## panda

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Worse things can happen, such as ordering a denka and replacing the steel with shirogami 1


only people who got picked to play would know why Shiro1 is much preferred.


----------



## jacko9

Why pay all that money for a Denka with Shirogami 1 when you can just buy a T-F Nashiji with the same steel? I have had T-F W1 240 Gyuto Nashiji for a few years and it costs a fraction of what he's getting for the Denka.


----------



## labor of love

jacko9 said:


> Why pay all that money for a Denka with Shirogami 1 when you can just buy a T-F Nashiji with the same steel? I have had T-F W1 240 Gyuto Nashiji for a few years and it costs a fraction of what he's getting for the Denka.


Because denka is not nashiji lol. Also because AS is for people that only want to sharpen their knives once a year.


----------



## Corradobrit1

jacko9 said:


> Why pay all that money for a Denka with Shirogami 1 when you can just buy a T-F Nashiji with the same steel? I have had T-F W1 240 Gyuto Nashiji for a few years and it costs a fraction of what he's getting for the Denka.


It's not a Denka. It's a Mab with a suntan.


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> It's not a Denka. It's a Mab with a suntan.


So there’s no difference between denkas and mabs except for steel? Good to know


----------



## panda

its not really a mab or a denka but its own freakish thing


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> its not really a mab or a denka but its own freakish thing


Denkaroshi


----------



## ian

Denkas have infinitely better grinds than Nashijis. I think that’s why @panda bought it.


----------



## tminus

Trigger pulled. Fun fact, I originally opted for free shipping since they quoted 8-16 days on their website - I live in Seattle so I figured it would be on the shorter side. But then Gaku mentioned that it would take several months (?!) so I switched to DHL, ymmv.


----------



## Corradobrit1

tminus said:


> Trigger pulled. Fun fact, I originally opted for free shipping since they quoted 8-16 days on their website - I live in Seattle so I figured it would be on the shorter side. But then Gaku mentioned that it would take several months (?!) so I switched to DHL, ymmv.


You said you wanted a tall example. What is the height and edge length? Welcome to the TFTFTFTF TTTTTTT club.


----------



## inferno

tminus said:


> Trigger pulled. Fun fact, I originally opted for free shipping since they quoted 8-16 days on their website - I live in Seattle so I figured it would be on the shorter side. But then Gaku mentioned that it would take several months (?!) so I switched to DHL, ymmv.



i've ordered lots of crap from jck over the years and the slowest package took about 5 days, usually its 2 days. and thats with the regular japanese post, no fancy dhl crap.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

inferno said:


> i've ordered lots of crap from jck over the years and the slowest package took about 5 days, usually its 2 days. and thats with the regular japanese post, no fancy dhl crap.



EMS/ePacket isn't available from TF at the moment. It's either DHL or on a boat.


----------



## Corradobrit1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> EMS/ePacket isn't available from TF at the moment. It's either DHL or on a boat.


Tell me about it. Got an Ashi Honyaki stuck in Japan for just that reason.


----------



## tminus

Corradobrit1 said:


> You said you wanted a tall example. What is the height and edge length? Welcome to the TFTFTFTF TTTTTTT club.


53, 214. Gaku said that it wasn't possible to go above 53cm height but I've seen other posts of 210s with 55cm (maybe in this thread?) so I dunno if he was spinning me a line.


----------



## jacko9

210mm Denka Gyuto on sale at the Knifewear Garage sale for $661 USD


----------



## Receiver52

Got one direct for a lot less than that and I was able to tell them what I wanted and review a dozen pics before I paid for it.


----------



## Corradobrit1

jacko9 said:


> 210mm Denka Gyuto on sale at the Knifewear Garage sale for $661 USD


Almost double what I paid direct. Heck there's even a couple on Ebay that are listed for a lot less.


----------



## tminus

Corradobrit1 said:


> Almost double what I paid direct. Heck there's even a couple on Ebay that are listed for a lot less.


Wow, how long ago did you purchase your Denka that it was half off? I was quoted 57,200 JPY ($552.60) + 7,000 JPY ($66.60) shipping = $619.20


----------



## Corradobrit1

tminus said:


> Wow, how long ago did you purchase your Denka that it was half off? I was quoted 57,200 JPY ($552.60) + 7,000 JPY ($66.60) shipping = $619.20


Early 2018


----------



## parbaked

TF Denka and Maboroshi gyuto price list from April 2018.
The exchange rate was approximately 1 USD = 108 JPY
210mm Denka Gyuto cost USD $418 direct or $398 if you bought in the store as non resident and don't pay VAT or shipping.


----------



## TSF415

parbaked said:


> TF Denka and Maboroshi gyuto price list from April 2018.
> The exchange rate was approximately 1 USD = 108 JPY
> 210mm Denka Gyuto cost USD $418 direct or $398 if you bought in the store as non resident and don't pay VAT or shipping.
> View attachment 103141


Wowzers. I might actually think it was worth the money at that price.


----------



## tminus

So about a 27% price increase in 2 years? Guess all the noobs like me get the privilege of paying the "iron price" - well played TF. 

Btw, the nearly $70 in shipping got the knife delivered to my door in about a day and a half.


----------



## jacko9

Yeah shipping from T-F and Watanabe both have been great. Yes as T-F became popular (again) his prices haver steadily gone up.


----------



## deskjockey

Working with a different Japanese vendor than those mentioned here, my DHL shipped Cleaver was $22. EMS which I normally use was quoted at 5 to 6 weeks and was $8 cheaper!


----------



## M1k3

parbaked said:


> TF Denka and Maboroshi gyuto price list from April 2018.
> The exchange rate was approximately 1 USD = 108 JPY
> 210mm Denka Gyuto cost USD $418 direct or $398 if you bought in the store as non resident and don't pay VAT or shipping.
> View attachment 103141


Even back then the price jump from 210->240 is ridiculous.
19,995 for 180, 23,100 for 210. 30mm difference.
But 240 is 42,000. 270 is 52,500. Still 30mm difference


----------



## Qapla'

I wonder: Did the OP ever buy the Denka?


----------



## daddy yo yo

Qapla' said:


> I wonder: Did the OP ever buy the Denka?


Who cares? We have 17 pages of great fun!


----------



## deskjockey

M1k3 said:


> Even back then the price jump from 210->240 is ridiculous.
> 19,995 for 180, 23,100 for 210. 30mm difference.
> But 240 is 42,000. 270 is 52,500. Still 30mm difference



That type of difference is not unique. 210mm is the most common 'large' size made so, call it a *quantity of scale* discount if you want. >210mm also likely takes it out of most common household kitchens so, you are moving upscale in addition to smaller production numbers.


----------



## sliceanddicebaby

M1k3 said:


> Even back then the price jump from 210->240 is ridiculous.
> 19,995 for 180, 23,100 for 210. 30mm difference.
> But 240 is 42,000. 270 is 52,500. Still 30mm difference



TF's dwarven hands makes forging knives above 210mm exponentially more difficult, which is reflected in its price.

By the way, does TF still offer this handle?


----------



## Carl Kotte

sliceanddicebaby said:


> TF's dwarven hands makes forging knives above 210mm exponentially more difficult, which is reflected in its price.
> 
> By the way, does TF still offer this handle?
> 
> View attachment 103512


Welcome back, my Lord!


----------



## IsoJ

sliceanddicebaby said:


> TF's dwarven hands makes forging knives above 210mm exponentially more difficult, which is reflected in its price.
> 
> By the way, does TF still offer this handle?
> 
> View attachment 103512


Is that you Gaku, don't be so hard on the boys, it is not the size you know


----------



## M1k3

deskjockey said:


> That type of difference is not unique. 210mm is the most common 'large' size made so, call it a *quantity of scale* discount if you want. >210mm also likely takes it out of most common household kitchens so, you are moving upscale in addition to smaller production numbers.


Ok, so why doesn't the price double for 240->270?


----------



## sliceanddicebaby

M1k3 said:


> Ok, so why doesn't the price double for 240->270?



Simple maths: 210mm and below takes 2 dwarfs to forge, 240 and above requires 3 dwarfs.


----------



## Corradobrit1

sliceanddicebaby said:


> Simple maths: 210mm and below takes 2 dwarfs to forge, 240 and above requires 3 dwarfs.


Makes total sense.


----------



## Corradobrit1

sliceanddicebaby said:


> TF's dwarven hands makes forging knives above 210mm exponentially more difficult, which is reflected in its price.
> 
> By the way, does TF still offer this handle?
> 
> View attachment 103512


If its ebony, then yes.


----------



## Carl Kotte

But who forges the dwarf?


----------



## TSF415

Ma


Carl Kotte said:


> But who forges the dwarf?


Mazaki. He learned it from kato.


----------



## Jeezy

What do you think of this 195mm Denka Nakiri? I know, not the best pictures to evaluate and sadly its the only blade he has in stock.
I might ask Gaku for more pictures (to spot any overgrinds issues) but he seems so busy these days and i have to wait weeks for an answer.
Also note that this blade isn't sharpened yet.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Jeezy said:


> What do you think of this 195mm Denka Nakiri? I know, not the best pictures to evaluate and sadly its the only blade he has in stock.
> I might ask Gaku for more pictures (to spot any overgrinds issues) but he seems so busy these days and i have to wait weeks for an answer.
> Also note that this blade isn't sharpened yet.
> 
> View attachment 103533
> View attachment 103534
> View attachment 103535
> View attachment 103536



From the pictures, it looks like the KU blemish on the right face near the tip has been ground (rather than rubbed off or something strange). This might suggest a bean-shaped concave spot in between the bladeroad and the places where the KU has been abraded. It would be annoying to me if I were dropping $700 on a new knife.

Pass, no need for additional pictures.


----------



## Corradobrit1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> From the pictures, it looks like the KU blemish on the right face near the tip has been ground (rather than rubbed off or something strange). This might suggest a bean-shaped concave spot in between the bladeroad and the places where the KU has been abraded. It would be annoying to me if I were dropping $700 on a new knife.


Agreed, clumsy on a blade of this value.


----------



## ian

Tbh, this bean shaped spot is like the least concerning flaw in a TF knife I’ve seen. It’s just a beauty mark!


----------



## Corradobrit1

ian said:


> Tbh, this bean shaped spot is like the least concerning flaw in a TF knife I’ve seen. It’s just a beauty mark!


Must have been one of the ham fisted apprentice dwarfs.


----------



## ThomasTan

lemeneid said:


> I never bugged them, I just dropped them an email with size and specs and the knives all turned out perfect.


Can you teach me what to say please? Want to order a 240mm one, with 55m heel height+, red pakka western handle with nice f&f, solid and tappered on the edge for fine knife work yet being thick enough at the spine for a solid feel.


----------



## Ensis

Receiver52 said:


> Trigger pulled . Red Pakka 210 Denka from Gaku. 213, 52 and 212 grams. Can’t see any overgrinds in the pics and Gaku assured me that there are none. F&F on the handle looks good.
> 
> Should ship tomorrow or Thur.
> 
> Excited


Hi there. I got a 210 Denka direct from TF recently. Similar specs to yours 214 length, 53 heel, red handle. But mine weighs 148 g with finger notch. Are you sure yours weighs 212 g? That's a heavy knife.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Ensis said:


> Hi there. I got a 210 Denka direct from TF recently. Similar specs to yours 214 length, 53 heel, red handle. But mine weighs 148 g with finger notch. Are you sure yours weighs 212 g? That's a heavy knife.



Mate, your knife is the odd one. 148 grams for a _western_ _handle_ TF denka is very slim. That's takamura R2 laser category. Pics?

Btw, 215g for a 210mm gyuto is pretty "normal."


----------



## Ensis

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Mate, your knife is the odd one. 148 grams for a _western_ _handle_ TF denka is very slim. That's takamura R2 laser category. Pics?


Not western handle, red wa handle they offer. It's super light.


----------



## Ensis

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Mate, your knife is the odd one. 148 grams for a _western_ _handle_ TF denka is very slim. That's takamura R2 laser category. Pics?
> 
> Btw, 215g for a 210mm gyuto is pretty "normal."


My 210 heijii weighs 180 g. Not normal for a wa handle. I'll send pics of the Denka.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Receiver52 said:


> *Red Pakka* 210 Denka from Gaku. 213, 52 and 212 grams.
> 
> 
> Excited






Ensis said:


> Not western handle, *red wa handle* they offer. It's super light.



Ah I see. You're comparing apples to oranges.

The "red pakka" he's referring to is with regards to the western handle - the red pakkawood option from TF is strictly western.
If you got the red wa handle, that should be the urushi - which is strictly a wa option (baller option BTW, congrats on the knife).

Both weights are on the lighter side per TF's own website, but not overly slim superlasers (obviously the full tang western adds weight).

For reference, a 210mm wa handle gesshin ginga stainless gyuto - which is a standard laser - is around 105g.


----------



## Ensis

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Ah I see. You're comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> The "red pakka" he's referring to is with regards to the western handle - the red pakkawood option from TF is strictly western.
> If you got the red wa handle, that should be the urushi - which is strictly a wa option (baller option BTW, congrats on the knife).
> 
> Both weights are on the lighter side per TF's own website, but not overly slim superlasers (obviously the full tang western adds weight).
> 
> For reference, a 210mm wa handle gesshin ginga stainless gyuto - which is a standard laser - is around 105g.


Okay, that makes sense now. Phew! Here's mine.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Ensis said:


> Okay, that makes sense now. Phew! Here's mine.


The Urushi is a total showstopper on a Denka. Congrats.
Lets see some choil pron


----------



## Ensis

Thanks. Here are a few more pics.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Nice


----------



## damiano

Ensis said:


> Thanks. Here are a few more pics.


Beautiful!


----------



## Runner_up

Yeah, great looking grind on that denka.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Ensis said:


> Okay, that makes sense now. Phew! Here's mine.


My western handle 210 denka that I received this month weighs 216 gram.


----------



## Receiver52

Ensis said:


> Hi there. I got a 210 Denka direct from TF recently. Similar specs to yours 214 length, 53 heel, red handle. But mine weighs 148 g with finger notch. Are you sure yours weighs 212 g? That's a heavy knife.


Just weighed it and it’s 214 grams. As mentioned above, this is the normal weight for a Yo pakka handled 210 Denka. It feels perfectly balanced and is now high up on my list of favourite knives. More importantly, my wife likes it as much as her Takeda which is amazing.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> My western handle 210 denka that I received this month weighs 216 gram.


Mine weighs 175g so they are all over the place in terms of specs.


----------



## thebradleycrew

I recently received a 240 western Denka at 240 grams and a 285 Denka at, gulp, 400 grams.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Corradobrit1 said:


> Mine weighs 175g so they are all over the place in terms of specs.


Wow that's quite some variance.


----------



## ThomasTan

Btw, how do you guys do custom orders for your denkas? Do you add to cart and check out with comments or send a message to them first? They don’t seem to reply me when I use the contact tab on the website


----------



## ThomasTan

Ensis said:


> Hi there. I got a 210 Denka direct from TF recently. Similar specs to yours 214 length, 53 heel, red handle. But mine weighs 148 g with finger notch. Are you sure yours weighs 212 g? That's a heavy knife.


Btw, how do you guys do custom orders for your denkas? Do you add to cart and check out with comments or send a message to them first? They don’t seem to reply me when I use the contact tab on the website


----------



## Ensis

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Wow that's quite some variance.



The finger rest and handle can make a noticeable difference. That's what they told me at TF.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Ensis said:


> The finger rest and handle can make a noticeable difference. That's what they told me at TF.


Definitely. Just having my 210 Denka thinned took off 5g of material


----------



## Ensis

ThomasTan said:


> Btw, how do you guys do custom orders for your denkas? Do you add to cart and check out with comments or send a message to them first? They don’t seem to reply me when I use the contact tab on the website


When you order or inquire someone will contact you. They are usually pretty accommodating.


----------



## Ensis

Receiver52 said:


> Just weighed it and it’s 214 grams. As mentioned above, this is the normal weight for a Yo pakka handled 210 Denka. It feels perfectly balanced and is now high up on my list of favourite knives. More importantly, my wife likes it as much as her Takeda which is amazing.


I have two of the oversized Takeda gyutos and I agree. They are fantastic knives. They are in a class of their own. Very unique.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Ensis said:


> The finger rest and handle can make a noticeable difference. That's what they told me at TF.


Mine has a finger rest so I think it's mostly because mine is big and thick overall.

Edit: it's actually not a bad thing as I can remove steel when I want but I can't add steel if necessary.


----------



## Ensis

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Mine has a finger rest so I think it's mostly because mine is big and thick overall.
> 
> Edit: it's actually not a bad thing as I can remove steel when I want but I can't add steel if necessary.


What handle do you have?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Ensis said:


> What handle do you have?


Just regular black pakka western handle.


----------



## Draeden

Thanks to the many that provided info on this thread. A good and entertaining read  .


----------



## microtech

Hi, OP here, sorry for the thread revival. I did end up buying TF Denka. Although, it did take ONE YEAR to receive it, and Gaku from TF ignored all of my simple request for specs and pics before finally shipping it so I’m not very happy with the service.

When I purchased it, the long wait plus rough life during this period (we had our first child, flood wrecked my house, work stresses, covid era, etc), made me completely forgot about this. But I’ve finally unboxed this Denka. Before I use it, please help me determine if this is a lemon or not. I already didn’t get the specs I wanted, but also want to make sure it has no glaring issues (way out of spec, over grind, or profile). Specs:

edge length - 208.7 mm
height at heel - 54.6 mm
spine thickness - 3.1 mm

I can already see that there’s a slight angle when it was inserted into the wa handle, but fit and finish doesn’t bother me. 54.6mm seems on the taller side. Anything else I’m missing? Specs and profile issues will bother me more.


----------



## simar

At some point when you are ready to sharpen I imagine the sequence as a montage out of Austin Powers, in the immortal voice of Frau Farbissina: Prepare the stones.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

microtech said:


> Hi, OP here, sorry for the thread revival. I did end up buying TF Denka. Although, it did take ONE YEAR to receive it, and Gaku from TF ignored all of my simple request for specs and pics before finally shipping it so I’m not very happy with the service.
> 
> When I purchased it, the long wait plus rough life during this period (we had our first child, flood wrecked my house, work stresses, covid era, etc), made me completely forgot about this. But I’ve finally unboxed this Denka. Before I use it, please help me determine if this is a lemon or not. I already didn’t get the specs I wanted, but also want to make sure it has no glaring issues (way out of spec, over grind, or profile). Specs:
> 
> edge length - 208.7 mm
> height at heel - 54.6 mm
> spine thickness - 3.1 mm
> 
> I can already see that there’s a slight angle when it was inserted into the wa handle, but fit and finish doesn’t bother me. 54.6mm seems on the taller side. Anything else I’m missing? Specs and profile issues will bother me more.


What’s the weight?


----------



## jedy617

You tell us if it's a lemon or not


----------



## superworrier

Looks nice enough to me. Why the hell did it take a year though?


----------



## mmiinngg

That handle alignement though.....


----------



## deskjockey

microtech said:


> I already didn’t get the specs I wanted, but also want to make sure it has no glaring issues (way out of spec, over grind, or profile). Specs:
> 
> edge length - 208.7 mm
> height at heel - 54.6 mm
> spine thickness - 3.1 mm


What specs did you ask for? How far off are they? Sounds like a bad experience so it may be best to just move on and buy something else from a more reliable vendor.


----------



## chefwp

Phip said:


> The two challenges I'd see in starting with a Denka are that you'll immediately jump into the need to not only sharpen well but thin and rework a blade very well, and you'll also have to have enough experience to judge cutting performance to see how your blade reworking is going. I know you expect to get a "good" one. I've been there done that and got a "good" one, hand picked in person, that "only" took me five hours to clean up and rework to become useable (plus time to replace the mediocre Wa handle w/ a custom). It still needs a couple of hours to be completely finished (--there's still a small section of the blade where it wants to wedge).
> You don't say how experienced you are at thinning and blade maintenance. Know that you'll almost inevitably knock off a lot of kurochi finish that you'd intended to leave. You'll have trouble getting the scratches out--and oh yes, it will look like a cat fight that lasted hours with deep scratches that have to be worked out again. So if you don't have a minimum of three good stones ( 220/300, 800/1200, 2000/4000) at least, plus a good flattener, you'll be buying those, too, just to start w/ a Denka.
> If you are tired of mediocrity and want excellence, you could try a Wantanabe or Toyama for a heavier knife, a Gesshin Gengetsu for a medium weight, or a FM or Tadatsuna (Inox or carbon) if you want a great laser. These are all plug and play knives that will not need reworking to be functional.


I agree with this wholeheartedly. I recently received a 210 denka yo-handle (full tang, heavy). From reading about them for a long time, I knew the cons. I feel I got lucky in some regards, the knife did not have any imperfections that the brand has been known to let slip out. However, as Phip mentioned, it is fat as hell and needs thinning, as it wedges horribly on hard veggies, despite being shaving sharp OOTB. 
Whether TF Denka is the epitome of the perfect knife is highly debatable anyway. I have some stones on the way to thin mine, I have a feeling it will be a very fine knife afterwards, but it will still be a heavy beast (the wa version will not be so heavy, so you have choices here). With that said, I don't know if it will ever surpass my Kagekiyo or Tetsujins in cutting prowess and comfort. I doubt it will, I'll let y'all know after I thin it.


----------



## deskjockey

More of a general question, for such an expensive knife, are people really being over critical?

Or, do people really get knives with serious defects as I see a lot of chatter about some being superior but a lot also having real faults.


----------



## Delat

microtech said:


> Hi, OP here, sorry for the thread revival. I did end up buying TF Denka. Although, it did take ONE YEAR to receive it, and Gaku from TF ignored all of my simple request for specs and pics before finally shipping it so I’m not very happy with the service.
> 
> When I purchased it, the long wait plus rough life during this period (we had our first child, flood wrecked my house, work stresses, covid era, etc), made me completely forgot about this. But I’ve finally unboxed this Denka. Before I use it, please help me determine if this is a lemon or not. I already didn’t get the specs I wanted, but also want to make sure it has no glaring issues (way out of spec, over grind, or profile). Specs:
> 
> edge length - 208.7 mm
> height at heel - 54.6 mm
> spine thickness - 3.1 mm
> 
> I can already see that there’s a slight angle when it was inserted into the wa handle, but fit and finish doesn’t bother me. 54.6mm seems on the taller side. Anything else I’m missing? Specs and profile issues will bother me more.


You don't say what your desired specs were, so nobody here can say whether or not they conform? The typical issues I've heard with TF are over grinds, under grinds, excessive thickness, and yes wonky handles. Grind and thickness issues can't really be determined from OOTB photos - you figure them out based on usage and sharpening/thinning. Regardless, I assume this is what you signed up for given the responses on this thread?

Best of luck with your new knife! I'm really sorry it took a solid year (!) with no communication and you're experiencing all levels of the infamous TF wabi sabi. And sorry about the house and work issues, but congrats on the baby! Sincerely hoping you enjoy your new blade.

BTW there's a shop out there offering a tuneup service specifically for TF - I forget the name but I'm sure someone will chime in with it.


----------



## Delat

deskjockey said:


> More of a general question, for such an expensive knife, are people really being over critical?
> 
> Or, do people really get knives with serious defects as I see a lot of chatter about some being superior but a lot also having real faults.



I don't have one, but TF seems to be a crapshoot - many people get great OOTB knives, others get wonky examples. I think everyone agrees the steel is excellent though, and he has a cult following. The randomness is why I've never bought one, and if I ever get the itch I'd buy one off BST that somebody better than me already tuned up.

A new TF feels like eating at Hell's Kitchen - you might get something great or you might end up needing to send raw chicken back and wait another hour.


----------



## deskjockey

Delat said:


> A new TF feels like eating at Hell's Kitchen - you might get something great or you might end up needing to send raw chicken back and wait another hour.


Well said!


----------



## big D

@deskjockey and @Delat from post #1

Quote -
I’ll be ordering directly from Teruyasu’s site. To avoid getting a lemon, I’d like to request certain specifications in the order comment section. However, since I’m still new to this, I have no idea what to even ask for. To have the performance that this knife should have, what are the ideal specs? I stole this from another thread, let me know if these are good ballpark numbers to request:

edge length - 210mm
height at heel - 53mm
spine thickness - 3.2mm

What he received from post #525 
edge length - 208.7 mm
height at heel - 54.6 mm
spine thickness - 3.1 mm

edited to add received specs for your convenience.
D.


----------



## deskjockey

Wow! That's pretty close to the request. Being a handmade product, I'd say he hit the mark pretty well.


----------



## Delat

big D said:


> @deskjockey and @Delat from post #1
> 
> Quote -
> I’ll be ordering directly from Teruyasu’s site. To avoid getting a lemon, I’d like to request certain specifications in the order comment section. However, since I’m still new to this, I have no idea what to even ask for. To have the performance that this knife should have, what are the ideal specs? I stole this from another thread, let me know if these are good ballpark numbers to request:
> 
> edge length - 210mm
> height at heel - 53mm
> spine thickness - 3.2mm
> 
> What he received from post #525
> edge length - 208.7 mm
> height at heel - 54.6 mm
> spine thickness - 3.1 mm
> 
> edited to add received specs for your convenience.
> D.



Final product looks pretty close. I don't see any cause for complaint.


----------



## TJ Watson

> _"A new TF feels like eating at Hell's Kitchen - you might get something great or you might end up needing to send raw chicken back and wait another hour."_



HUH? - You'd expect that after being tossed several times by grinning demons across a flaming pit packed with tortured souls - that your chicken gibbet would at least be lightly browned.

Why I gave up eating at Hell's Kitchen in favor of Heck's Breakfast Bar...

Jim


----------



## Pie

deskjockey said:


> More of a general question, for such an expensive knife, are people really being over critical?
> 
> Or, do people really get knives with serious defects as I see a lot of chatter about some being superior but a lot also having real faults.


Mine was hectic. I didn’t know at the time, but the more I learned the more I realized how much work it needs. 

It looks like it was ground while blackout drunk, just massive lows and random microbevel widths. That said it performed well ootb - I’m slowly making my adjustments, and will continue to do so until i have no complaints. It currently sits too thin near the edge (oops) and too thick at the shoulders, but I love how it cuts. 

Maybe I wouldn’t have bought it if I knew all these things, but I’m happy I did because that steel is ridiculous, and it’s really taught me a lot about geometry and messing with it.


----------



## JASinIL2006

Delat said:


> You don't say what your desired specs were, so nobody here can say whether or not they conform? The typical issues I've heard with TF are over grinds, under grinds, excessive thickness, and yes wonky handles. Grind and thickness issues can't really be determined from OOTB photos - you figure them out based on usage and sharpening/thinning. Regardless, I assume this is what you signed up for given the responses on this thread?
> 
> Best of luck with your new knife! I'm really sorry it took a solid year (!) with no communication and you're experiencing all levels of the infamous TF wabi sabi. And sorry about the house and work issues, but congrats on the baby! Sincerely hoping you enjoy your new blade.
> 
> BTW there's a shop out there offering a tuneup service specifically for TF - I forget the name but I'm sure someone will chime in with it.


 Ryan at District Cutlery does really fine work thinning and tuning Denkas. Not sure if he does re-handling. That handle takes wabi sabi to new levels.


----------



## miggus

microtech said:


> it did take ONE YEAR to receive it


Wow that's long! Are you happy with the knife now that you've had it for a while?


----------



## labor of love

My first denka arrives today. The good looking yo handle one that was on bst last week.


----------



## tostadas

JASinIL2006 said:


> Ryan at District Cutlery does really fine work thinning and tuning Denkas. Not sure if he does re-handling. That handle takes wabi sabi to new levels.


Agreed, Ryan at DC does amazing work. Highly recommend


----------



## esoo

My first Denka just shipped from a local store - a nakiri. Had been a melancholic birthday so did knife therapy.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Great time to buy a Denka direct. With the USD/Yen fx nudging 1:150, a 210 can be had for less than $400 and the 240 just over $600.


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> Great time to buy a Denka direct. With the USD/Yen fx nudging 1:150, a 210 can be had for less than $400 and the 240 just over $600.


Any idea what the wait time is like?


----------



## Heckel7302

Corradobrit1 said:


> Great time to buy a Denka direct. With the USD/Yen fx nudging 1:150, a 210 can be had for less than $400 and the 240 just over $600.


got mine ordered last month. I didn't think the JPY could go any lower, but here we are. Could have saved $20 on that 210!


labor of love said:


> Any idea what the wait time is like?


My order was processed July 27. Miho told me "about 2.5 months for delivery". I take that with a grain of salt and will be happy if it arrives before Christmas.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

labor of love said:


> Any idea what the wait time is like?


Ordered my Denka 240 western in April. Got it in August. Right after about 4 months. Spent $100 more than how much you would spend now.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Ordered my Denka 240 western in April. Got it in August. Right after about 4 months. Spent $100 more than how much you would spend now.


Would be an even better deal if TF hadn't increased their prices. The 240 used to be 77000yen ($533) until fairly recently.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Corradobrit1 said:


> Would be an even better deal if TF hadn't increased their prices. The 240 used to be 77000yen ($533) until fairly recently.


The Isamitsu knife is 77000 yen. I should get mine soon. I'm thinking of doing a review or arranging a passaround.


----------



## superworrier

Hopefully Isamitsu doesn't raise their prices too. I told myself I'd buy a 240 if the yen exchange rate hits 150


----------



## JASinIL2006

I ordered my Denka on Jan. 11 and received it on Feb. 1. 

I did pay for "Business Shipping" however, for an add'l 8000 JPY.


----------



## miggus

Looking intensely at those Denkas. Do you guys think the ebony handle is worth the 20000 yen extra? It looks much nicer with the KU finish, but that upgrade price seems a bit steep.


----------



## superworrier

miggus said:


> Looking intensely at those Denkas. Do you guys think the ebony handle is worth the 20000 yen extra? It looks much nicer with the KU finish, but that upgrade price seems a bit steep.


Yeah it's very steep (but a bit less so with current exchange rates). You can buy a KNS one for like 90 bucks or so if you're comfortable installing it yourself.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

miggus said:


> Looking intensely at those Denkas. Do you guys think the ebony handle is worth the 20000 yen extra? It looks much nicer with the KU finish, but that upgrade price seems a bit steep.


No probably not. If you really like ebony handle, you can buy it from here for $30-ish. Yanagi Knife 柳葉刀鋪 . Single buffalo horn

The ho wood handle that TF uses is really nice. Thick and smooth. I'll keep that.


----------



## Delat

miggus said:


> Looking intensely at those Denkas. Do you guys think the ebony handle is worth the 20000 yen extra? It looks much nicer with the KU finish, but that upgrade price seems a bit steep.



There's good odds the handle would get installed crooked, twisted, and/or off-center, negating any upgraded value you expected. Better to upgrade it yourself later.


----------



## Heckel7302

miggus said:


> Looking intensely at those Denkas. Do you guys think the ebony handle is worth the 20000 yen extra? It looks much nicer with the KU finish, but that upgrade price seems a bit steep.


I think those TF handles are WILDY overpriced. I got a beautiful cocobolo handle from Jobone for less than half that price that I'll be installing on my Denka when it arrives. I asked in my order that they leave the handle loose when they ship so I don't have to deal with taking it off. They said no problem, but will see if they remember...

I also asked if they could leave the sticker off the handle so I could put it on mine. That was a hard NO.


----------



## miggus

Thanks @Heckel7302, @Delat and @Hz_zzzzzz (in no particular order  ). I just went ahead and ordered a 240 Denka, with the ho-wood handle. 

I also specified the knife to be at least 55mm tall, thinner than usual, 2.5mm - 3mm spine thickness, and with a thin tip. Will be interesting to see what arrives.

I always treat ho wood handles with oil, this will be the first time that I'll try colored oil to get a brown tone. But let's see when it arrives - I reckon it might take a bit since I won't be the only one taking advantage of the favorable exchange rate.


----------

