# Three workhorse knives: Heiji, Kochi and Watanabe



## mark76

When I first got into Japanese knives I was impressed because they were much lighter and more nimble than the German knives I was used to. And I liked the fact that they were made of a hard steel that was easy to sharpen and that I could get to a screamy edge.

But nowadays there is another type of Japanese knife that is quite popular: the workhorse knife. By a workhorse I mean a knife that is quite hefty (for a Japanese knife) and relatively thick at the spine.







So I decided to get a number of workhorse knives and to see how I liked them: a 210 mm Nakaya-Heiji gyuto, a 180 mm Watanabe gyuto and a 210 mm Kochi gyuto.

*Looks*

All three of the knives have what I would call a rustic look. The Kochi and the Watanabe have a kurouchi finish and the Heiji is also a cladded knife. The core steel of the Heiji is a semi-stainless steel, the core of the Kochi is an unspecified carbon steel and the Watanabe is made of aogami steel. The claddings on all three of the knives are stainless. Funnily enough, the Heiji was the first one to pick up a patina, even though it was the only one made of semi-stainless steel. None of the knives are very reactive, by the way.





_Heiji_

Rustic sometimes also means that the fit and finish are not optimal. All three of the knives had handles made of burnt chestwood, but the handle of the Watanabe was badly finished: there was at least a millimeter difference in height between the wood and the ferrule. And the ferrule was made of plastic. So I decided to replace that handle by a nice one made of Oregon maple burl. There were no sharp edges on any of the knife spines, but the Kochi was the only one with a rounded spine and ferrule. It was clearly the best finished knife.





_Kochi_

All three knives came pretty sharp out of their boxes, only the Heiji had a wire burr. So I first took that one to a fine stone. Even though I hardly sharpened it, I immediately felt I liked the steel: it gave a very good feedback. And I'm sure that if I'd sharpen it further, that would be an easy and enjoyable task.





_Watanabe_

*Measurements*

The profiles of the knives are not too dissimilar. I would describe them as all-round: all three of them have a proper flat spot (although the Heiji has a slight recurve towards the heel), but they also nicely curve up towards the tip, which makes them suitable for rock chopping. All three knives have nearly the same height at the heel (47 or 48 mm), so they provide enough knuckle clearance.





_Profile of the Kochi_

They do differ in their spine thicknesses, however. They all have about the same thickness at the heel (4.1 to 4.3 mm), but the Kochi is the only knife with a relatively thin tip: it measures 0.9 mm at one centimeter from the tip. The Heiji and the Watanabe are 1.3 and 1.2 mm thick respectively at the same spot. This makes the Heiji the knife with the thickest tip I own.





_Kochi choil shot_

Their geometries also differ. At 5 mm above the edge the Heiji, the Kochi and the Watanabe are respectively 0.8, 0.7 and 0.6 mm thick halfway the blade. This may not sound like a large difference, but the thickness of a knife just above the edge is very important for its cutting performance. Again, the Heiji is the thickest knife just above the edge I own (together with a Takeda knife).

The balance point of all three of the knives is well in front of the choil. The Watanabe had it about 2 centimeters in front of the choil, with the Kochi it was about 3 centimeters and with the Heiji it was even half a centimeter more.

*Cutting performance*

I started my cutting tests with onions. The Watanabe and the Kochi dealt with them beautifully. However, the Heiji had major problems with the horizontal cuts, probably due to its thick tip. One time it even got stuck in an onion. It also did not deal optimally with the vertical cuts.

Then it was time for carrots. Again, the Watanabe and the Kochi cut them fine. I could experience a minimal amount of wedging, but this wasn't enough to bother me. However, the Heiji really made the carrots say crack, a sign of serious wedging.






I was making a dish called hotchpotch, a mash of potatoes, onions and carrots, so the final ingredient to deal with was potatoes. All three knives did well on these potatoes, although it was still noticeable that the Heiji was a bit thick behind the edge. Food release on all three of the knives was quite good: better than on the laser type of knives I usually use. It was hard to distinguish the amount of food release of the knives. Maybe it was slightly better on the Heiji, but if it was, this was only by a tiny amount. But food release on all three knives was good.






After this I used the knife on many other types of ingredients, of course. Generally they all dealt well with softer foods. But cutting hard foods and making thin slices was the most challenging with the Heiji.

*Conclusion*

I like workhorse type knives! At least when they are properly ground. They can cut nearly as good as laser-type knives and they have better food release. Ive heard people say their workhorse knife falls through food. That was unfortunately not the case, but I definitely appreciate the fact that they are somewhat blade-heavy.

Of the knives I tested both the Kochi and the Watanabe were very good cutters. I'd say that in this respect they're on par. But the Kochi definitely had the best fit and finish and a thinner tip. The Heiji was too thick above the edge and its tip was too thick for me as well. Ive read many positive stories about the Heiji, but they're hand-made knives and maybe mine was made on a Monday. So Im afraid this one is going to leave my house.





_The Kochi: my favorite workhorse knife_

*Factsheets*


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## mark76

As usual, this review can also be found on my blog. All questions and comments welcome!


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## YG420

Great write up! I havent tried a watanabe or heiji, but I do agree with you on the kochi and its perfroamce.


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## Matus

Excellent and very helpful as I am looking and mid-weight workhorse knives at the moment. I also appreciate the information on the position of the balance point.


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## chinacats

Thanks Mark, nice writeup...I've owned all three (240's and 270's) and still have the Kochi (V2) and Watanabe (kasumi). I will have another Heiji, but next time will request a thinner knife as my experience was similar to yours. Next one will also be carbon instead of semi.


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## brianh

This was great! Man I love my Kochi 210 and nakiri. I was thinking of trying a Watanabe gyuto.


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## chiffonodd

Arrrgh i was thinking of letting go my kochi 240 stainless clad to make room for some smaller, all stainless knives but now you are making me regret that in advance haha :knife:


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## labor of love

chinacats said:


> Thanks Mark, nice writeup...I've owned all three (240's and 270's) and still have the Kochi (V2) and Watanabe (kasumi). I will have another Heiji, but next time will request a thinner knife as my experience was similar to yours. Next one will also be carbon instead of semi.



I requested a "thinner blade" from heiji but it still cut like a regular heiji when I recieved. He did nail my custom measurements perfectly though.


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## panda

Would he understand if you asked for a shinogi line higher up the blade? Which would force the grind thinner..


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## labor of love

After owning 4 kochis, 2 watanabes and 3 heijis I would say that kochi has hands down the best grind and tip out of the 3, however watanabe has a profile that is unrivaled and heiji steel has the best steel ever. All 3 makers/lines are truly fantastic and all carbon knife geeks should find time to eventually check them out.


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## labor of love

panda said:


> Would he understand if you asked for a shinogi line higher up the blade? Which would force the grind thinner..



Yeah maybe. But I can always tweak the grind, I just didn't want a double bevel deba in Gyuto form(or whatever). The meatiness of the blade was problematic no matter where he placed shinogi.


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## krx927

So Heiji love is overrated...


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## OneS

Just received my Heiji recently and the wedging is noticeable, potatoes especially. Next time it needs a sharpening I will have a go at thinning it. The review was great too, by the way. The above the spine measurements really made the whole thing objective, which this topic sometimes needs.


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## Dardeau

I've had mixed responses in Heiji wedging. The one I've kept doesn't wedge in anything but large carrots, others I have used have ranged pretty widely. For me the steel and heat treat make up for any wedging.

I also really like Watanabe knives. The kochi I had I was pretty indifferent to.


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## zetieum

Excellent review. Not too long but detailed, nice pics, very informative. Thanks!


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## mark76

Thanks for your compliments, guys! That definitely motivates me in writing more reviews.


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## KitchenCommander

Makes me wish I picked up one of those Watanabe knives that just sold on BST recently. Was really tempted by the 210 Gyuto for sure.


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## johnstoc

Thanks for putting this together. Just ordered a 240 stainless clad Kochi, really looking forward to it!


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## YG420

johnstoc said:


> Thanks for putting this together. Just ordered a 240 stainless clad Kochi, really looking forward to it!



You're gona love it!


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## perneto

I'm surprised about your experience with the Heiji. Mine has a very thin tip, despite the thick spine. It's actually one of my favorites for horizontal and vertical cuts in onions.
It does wedge a bit on large root vegetables when cutting thicker slices though. (No wedging with thin slices).
I see it as a close cousin of my usuba, in gyuto form.
FWIW mine is an early (choil not rounded) Gesshin Heiji, bought here on BST some time ago.


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## Ruso

Awesome review! I have similar experience with Heiji, can't see why so many people love it. However, it has a great steel.


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## James

perneto said:


> I'm surprised about your experience with the Heiji. Mine has a very thin tip, despite the thick spine. It's actually one of my favorites for horizontal and vertical cuts in onions.
> It does wedge a bit on large root vegetables when cutting thicker slices though. (No wedging with thin slices).
> I see it as a close cousin of my usuba, in gyuto form.
> FWIW mine is an early (choil not rounded) Gesshin Heiji, bought here on BST some time ago.



This is my experience as well and I ordered directly from Heiji. Fantastic with most things, while struggling a little bit on thick root vegetables. FWIW, mine does seem thinner behind the edge than the one presented here.


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## labor of love

James said:


> This is my experience as well and I ordered directly from Heiji. Fantastic with most things, while struggling a little bit on thick root vegetables. FWIW, mine does seem thinner behind the edge than the one presented here.


Yeah, I remember when I first read about heijis people mentioned that they were thin behind the edge knives. Still haven't seen a specimen yet that I would call thin. I think in most cases that if the shoulders are rounded/eased some they will perform better.


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## panda

Cough, takeda


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## James

labor of love said:


> Yeah, I remember when I first read about heijis people mentioned that they were thin behind the edge knives. Still haven't seen a specimen yet that I would call thin. I think in most cases that if the shoulders are rounded/eased some they will perform better.








Here's mine. I'm not sure if you'd still call it thin, but it seems significantly thinner than the one posted in the review.


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## labor of love

James said:


> Here's mine. I'm not sure if you'd still call it thin, but it seems significantly thinner than the one posted in the review.



I'd call it thinner than usual for a heiji. The shoulders look better in that choil shot also compared to other heijis. When I think of "thin behind the edge" I think of masakage koishi, wakui, kochi and gesshin ittetsu just to name a few.


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## johnstoc

labor of love said:


> Yeah, I remember when I first read about heijis people mentioned that they were thin behind the edge knives. Still haven't seen a specimen yet that I would call thin. I think in most cases that if the shoulders are rounded/eased some they will perform better.



Is it advisable to remove the shoulders on a wide bevel knife? Would you just sharpen at a lower angle than the wide bevel, then clean up the table with sandpaper to blend with existing finish up there and rework the wide bevel with a king 800 or other? Would this destroy any chance at a crisp shinogi line?


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## Matus

Well, if you blend the shoulders on a wide bevel knife you will end up with a different geometry that will not be a wide bevel anymore (depending on how much material you would remove). Doing so will mean you would effectively remove the shinogi line. What can be done (with a lot of skill) is to move the shinogi line towards the spine and thus effectively make the knife thinner.


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## Ruso

James' Heiji is definetlly much thiner comapred to what I got  I thinned mine quite a bit to be serviceable for me.

I do not see any point in removing the shoulders on wide bevel knife. It kinda defeats its purpose. Just buy non-wide bevel one from start  As Matus pointed out, you will change the geometry significantly at this point.


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## johnstoc

That was my concern. I've thinned my 240 Heiji to a point that it's cutting well, though I want to go a little further as it wedges slightly still in think cuts on hard foods. 

I believe I also got one on the thinner side to start, based on what I see here.


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## labor of love

I'm not suggesting that you remove the shoulders, but sometimes shoulders can be at too sharp of an angle and can be responsible for wedging. Also, keep in mind that every time you sharpen your knife the shinogi is moving closer to the edge due to the loss of steel so dealing with shoulders sooner or later is necessary.


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## Matus

I agree. But with a wide bevel knife - if you want to keep the grind geometry - you will want more often than not sharpen the whole wide bevel, not just the edge. That is how I sharpen my Yoshikane Hakata Santoku.


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## mlau

Looks just like my Heiji Gyuto--and mine is stock from nakaya Heiji


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## labor of love

mlau said:


> Looks just like my Heiji Gyuto--and mine is stock from nakaya Heiji



Which one? The OP or James?


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## labor of love

Btw James let me know if you ever want to let go of that heiji!


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## mlau

labor of love said:


> Which one? The OP or James?



James' gyuto.

Of course, I may be getting it mixed up with my Heiji Chukabocho.
The Chukabocho is super thin behind the edge compared to most every knife I have (aside from a Joe Calton parer).

I'll need to recheck my Heiji Gyuto.
I plan to make a basswood saya for it sometime.
Mine is a giant monster of a knife, and I love it (but have a cramped kitchen).
It's no laser, but has an interesting "S" profile that proves very effective in use.


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## Cashn

I love my Heiji 270 SS gyuto. Falls through just about everything but watermelons and sweet potatoes. Watermelons can downright suck and the sweet potatoes aren't far behind. I usually choose one gyuto for the day tho and the difficulty of splitting one watermelon is easily offset by the other 100+ lbs of product I have to deal with. The edge retention and ease of sharpening are phenomenal as well. Makes my tanaka ginsan seem like putty based on how dull the two are at the end of a normal 16 hour day. Fwiw I had a 240 gesshin heiji gyuto that didn't jive it's me that got sold.


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## labor of love

Cashn said:


> I love my Heiji 270 SS gyuto. Falls through just about everything but watermelons and sweet potatoes. Watermelons can downright suck and the sweet potatoes aren't far behind. I usually choose one gyuto for the day tho and the difficulty of splitting one watermelon is easily offset by the other 100+ lbs of product I have to deal with. The edge retention and ease of sharpening are phenomenal as well. Makes my tanaka ginsan seem like putty based on how dull the two are at the end of a normal 16 hour day. Fwiw I had a 240 gesshin heiji gyuto that didn't jive it's me that got sold.


Have you ever tried a kochi?


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## Cashn

I haven't but looking on JKI the 270 stainless clad looks right up my alley. The hard part for me is carbon is hard to care for with the way my work goes. I recently got a Kurosaki AS gyuto from K&S that I've been trying out (and really liking) to see if carbon would be a possibility for me and it has been working out well. Would the Kochi be able to withstand being left alone for 20-30 min after chopping say an onion and not rusting with a patina?


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## labor of love

Cashn said:


> I haven't but looking on JKI the 270 stainless clad looks right up my alley. The hard part for me is carbon is hard to care for with the way my work goes. I recently got a Kurosaki AS gyuto from K&S that I've been trying out (and really liking) to see if carbon would be a possibility for me and it has been working out well. Would the Kochi be able to withstand being left alone for 20-30 min after chopping say an onion and not rusting with a patina?



Get the stainless clad Gyuto. And jeez....just take one or two swipes with a towel across your edge after use and you'll be fine. If your stainless clad kurosaki works well with regards to reactivity then I don't see why kochi wouldn't do the same.


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## mark76

Cashn said:


> I haven't but looking on JKI the 270 stainless clad looks right up my alley. The hard part for me is carbon is hard to care for with the way my work goes. I recently got a Kurosaki AS gyuto from K&S that I've been trying out (and really liking) to see if carbon would be a possibility for me and it has been working out well. Would the Kochi be able to withstand being left alone for 20-30 min after chopping say an onion and not rusting with a patina?



Mine withstands that (the stainless clad). I wouldn't do that with the full carbon.


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## Cashn

Film catering, we only use paper towels and a limited water supply at best. I have to be able to jump out of the truck at any time to run a station or handle any other number of problems that arise. While it may seem trivial, the extra time it takes to wipe my knife isn't always in the cards. If everything goes right it is, but nothing goes right most of the time. We were in a coal mine today with the location manager telling us to watch for bears, our 4th guy didn't show up and we had to jerry rig our plug to the generator for power. Overall it was a great day though hehe. I'm just asking because I have /have had carbon knives at home that want to rust without a second thought. The kurosaki was my first foray into carbon at work because I have had AS knives before that I didn't have to baby. Was just curious if I could expect the same from a Kochi.


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## fimbulvetr

My stainless clad Kochi will put up with a LOT. I recently chopped up a gallon of kimchi and got called away suddenly "for a second" before I could wipe my knife. When I got back to it a half hour later, the core steel had blackened, but not rusted. Ymmv, of course, but I suspect you'll be ok.


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## chiffonodd

fimbulvetr said:


> My stainless clad Kochi will put up with a LOT. I recently chopped up a gallon of kimchi and got called away suddenly "for a second" before I could wipe my knife. When I got back to it a half hour later, the core steel had blackened, but not rusted. Ymmv, of course, but I suspect you'll be ok.



It's a w#2 core . . . I have a w#2 mono that, after forming a stable patina, can take a lot too so not surprised. Although kimchee would be a pretty serious test given all the acid.


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## fimbulvetr

I was, to be fair, astounded. I have a few other w#2 knives that, given similar treatment, would have coughed weakly and died.

Also note that I'm not ADVOCATING this sort of thing, just reporting on my experience. And I did race the poor knife home to a polishing stone after.


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## Cashn

Thank you guys, I will probably be placing an order with JKI once I get home in a week.


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## lucabrasi

Recently bought a 240 Kochi Stainless clad, and it is an impressive, impressive knife. It is not the thinnest of the knives I have used, but of the ultra thin, wide bevel blades I have used it may be the best performer, including the Sakai Takayuki Syousin Sakura. The stainless cladding is such a bonus as well. I'm a very big fan. And at that price it is one of the best blades available. 

I also have a Watanabe pro 240, and love it. To me they are mostly opposite ends of the spectrum. Big beefy slab of steel powering through ingredients versus refined, thin precision. If only he still made stainless clad 240s, I think Watanabe might be my one and done. 

Appreciate the detailed review, thanks for providing it.


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