# Wide bevel gyuto



## tcmx3 (Mar 14, 2015)

Konos Fujis never in stock and Kagekiyo a little bit too much money. So here we go maybe something else will meet the need? The wider the bevel the better.

LOCATION
What country are you in? *US*



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? *240/270 gyuto*
Are you right or left handed? *right*
Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? *wa*
What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? *240-270*
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) *probably prefer carbon, stainless acceptable*
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? *4-500 US*



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? *home only*
What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) *vegetables, boneless meat*
What knife, if any, are you replacing? *no replacement, just something different*
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) *pinch*
If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) *WIDE bevel would be nice, dark wood handle, carbon would be sweet*


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)* end grain wood*
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) *yes*


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 14, 2015)

Gesshin Heiji 240 semi-stainless wa-gyuto, right at the upper end of your budget: http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...hin-heiji-240-mm-semi-stainless-wa-gyuto.html

Way under your budget, but the 240 I have is an excellent knife:

Kochi 270 stainless clad carbon wa-gyuto: http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...-kurouchi-stainless-clad-carbon-wa-gyuto.html

Kochi 270 migaki wa-gyuto: http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...knives/kochi/kochi-270mm-migaki-wa-gyuto.html

Rick


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## chinacats (Mar 14, 2015)

The Sakai knife that James passed around recently exactly fits...as does Kochi...both great knives.

Edit to say that after that other thread, not sure how I didn't think of Heiji...

Cheers


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## Matus (Mar 14, 2015)

This may sound repetitive, but giving Jon from JKI a call would be about the best way to find the knife you are looking for. I actually talked to him about the knives already mentioned and the Heji is the thicker one of the two and may give you more wedging than the Kochi. Please note that this is just relative assessment from Jon - I have not used any of the two. My pick would be the Kochi with carbon kurouchi (there is carbon clad kurouchi, stainless clad kurouchi and one carbon clad migaki version) purely based on what I read about the knife.


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## schanop (Mar 14, 2015)

Syousin Sakura from James, http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-sakura/ .

Heiji is also a good option, but if you are looking for really wide bevel, Heiji's bevel is not as wide as some of those from Sakai.

And for some reason, kochi migaki 240 that I have with me at the moment is not a wide bevel knife at all.


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## EdipisReks (Mar 14, 2015)

I've owned and own both Kochi and Heiji. Very different knives, but both are very good. I do prefer Heiji.


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## panda (Mar 14, 2015)

Kochi is not wide bevel.

Shiro kamo AS is very good value if you don't mind a little lack of fit & finish.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 14, 2015)

panda said:


> Kochi is not wide bevel.



Sorry, but you're wrong.


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## panda (Mar 14, 2015)

The migaki anyway, maybe the v2 version is?


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## EdipisReks (Mar 14, 2015)

panda said:


> The migaki anyway, maybe the v2 version is?



I owned the very first version of the v2 kurouchi that Jon offered, and I would definitely call it wide bevel.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 14, 2015)

panda said:


> The migaki anyway, maybe the v2 version is?



Yeah, maybe the migaki, since the one I'm looking at right now is a stainless clad kurouchi V2.


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## chinacats (Mar 14, 2015)

I've owned two iron clad Kochi (V-2) kurouchi and still have one...absolutely wide bevel. Awesome knives...but I believe the V-2 to be a bit thinner than the Migaki.


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## JBroida (Mar 14, 2015)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Yeah, maybe the migaki, since the one I'm looking at right now is a stainless clad kurouchi V2.



Correct... The Migaki is not a wide bevel knife like the others are


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 14, 2015)

JBroida said:


> Correct... The Migaki is not a wide bevel knife like the others are



I stand corrected on the Migaki. Thanks for the clarification, Jon.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 14, 2015)

schanop said:


> Syousin Sakura from James, http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-sakura/ .



I had considered this before, how strong is the break between the flat and the convexed part?

My goal with this purchase is to get something visually distinct from a continuously ground knife and I would like the bevel to be about half way up if possible. I really like the Konosuke Fujiyama Blue #2 240mm, especially the one with the ebony handle, I just cant find one to buy and I cant post a WTB so there's that.

I dont feel a need to purchase now but I will get the Syousin if it fits that need. Otherwise... well my current knife is a Tanaka R2 240 and it cuts pretty ok.


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## panda (Mar 14, 2015)

If you want kono Fuji, ichimonji looks nearly identical.


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## EdipisReks (Mar 14, 2015)

panda said:


> If you want kono Fuji, ichimonji looks nearly identical.



Some of them do, absolutely. I've wanted to try one, but it never worked out.


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## pkjames (Mar 15, 2015)

redisburning said:


> I had considered this before, how strong is the break between the flat and the convexed part?
> 
> My goal with this purchase is to get something visually distinct from a continuously ground knife and I would like the bevel to be about half way up if possible. I really like the Konosuke Fujiyama Blue #2 240mm, especially the one with the ebony handle, I just cant find one to buy and I cant post a WTB so there's that.
> 
> I dont feel a need to purchase now but I will get the Syousin if it fits that need. Otherwise... well my current knife is a Tanaka R2 240 and it cuts pretty ok.



The Sakura is designed partly based on kono fuji with my specs and tweaks. If purchasing is not in a hurry, you can take part in the passaround that's currently on in the US.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 17, 2015)

Hey guys,

as tempted as I was by the Sakai Syousin, when I saw the Fujiyama Blue 2 240 pop up for sale I went ahead and ordered one. I see a lot of appeal in the Sakai (especially the handle), but I have wanted a Fuji for a long time and I didnt want to leave it as a "what if?" I do hope I didn't make a mistake in terms of getting a lesser piece of steel for what is, frankly, not much less, and probably more when all is said and done.

Speaking of probably more, can anyone point me to the nearest KKF approved handle maker who is currently taking orders? I am looking for something very plain; probably just a horn ferrule and a piece of decent ebony. Some of the creations Ive seen are beautiful but less plain than I personally like.

Does anyone know off-hand what I should I expect compared to my current arsenal?


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## tcmx3 (Mar 20, 2015)

So as an update, I got the Kono today.

Unfortunately, the knife had been packaged rather carelessly by _you know who_ and not only was the box damaged (a personal pet peeve, as I keep the boxes for the nice stuff I buy), but the last 6mm or so of the edge at the heel was very, very badly damaged (the whole of the actual edge broken off, though not that cleanly, of course  ). And frankly, if it wasn't because of the poor packing, it's even worse because that means someone took a damaged box and didn't bother to check the knife inside.

It would be very easy to be super upset, but I'm going to go ahead and keep the knife. I just don't see what I have to gain by sending it back to the ham-fisted buffoon who caused the problem to begin with. The knife is still functional and part of the edge was going to get damaged that badly this was the best part, I suppose. I will simply keep working on it slowly and it will sharpen out eventually. 

As a result, I * highly* suggest that you stick with the vendors you hear good things about on this forum. Tosho got me my knife in great shape quite quickly and they aren't even in the same country as me. Let me tell you they actually packed my knife like they wanted me to get it undamaged. I guess I should have held out.

Lesson learned.


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## kdeleon (Mar 20, 2015)

Why wouldn't you send it back. Seems like significant damage. At least give the vendor a chance to fix it. I don't think I would like to keep a knife knowing that it was damaged from the beginning.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 20, 2015)

Also I guess I didn't mention two relevant things.

1. For the people who are going to argue I should let the vendor make it right, I don't have much faith in someone who would be this careless to handle the situation properly, not to mention in conjunction with the stories I've heard I'd rather take a knife that is perfectly usable even if it was damaged a bit in transit. In the grand scheme of things, it could have been a lot worse.

2. The knife is pretty nice and the grind seems good. I will do an update later. I have an idea of where I go from here, but Ill let you guess at what THAT means.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 20, 2015)

kdeleon said:


> I don't think I would like to keep a knife knowing that it was damaged from the beginning.



Let me start by saying I understand your perspective completely. 

Like might be a strong word, though.

But I will say this, the damage is minor enough that the knife is within my patience to keep. If it were a chip out in the part I was really cutting with, it would have to go back. I plan to use the knife and if I tire of it then someone will probably get a good deal on it. There are worse things than learning a lesson in this way, I will say that, plus I have a nice knife even with a scar in it before I even begin.


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## gavination (Mar 20, 2015)

You're far more understanding and accepting than I am haha. I would at least complain and ask for a discount credited back to you since it was damaged. If not for yourself, for the rest of us that have had terrible experiences in the past.


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## Cheeks1989 (Mar 20, 2015)

You should contact the vendor the only way for them to get better is from feed back. Sometimes **** happens.


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## James (Mar 20, 2015)

Cheeks1989 said:


> You should contact the vendor the only way for them to get better is from feed back. Sometimes **** happens.



This. Also, 6 mm is a decent chunk to lose right off the bat.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 20, 2015)

Cheeks1989 said:


> You should contact the vendor the only way for them to get better is from feed back. Sometimes **** happens.



On your recommendation, I snapped a pic and sent them an email.

If you consider it from my perspective though, what I gain from sending it back seems simply not worth it. Compare that to spending more of my money on shipping it back and waiting months for another knife to get back in stock or for this knife to make the rounds to Sakai, and then what? Take another chance? The knife is messed up because it wasn't packaged right (again, benefit of the doubt here that they didnt just put a busted box out there for a customer without at least checking the knife) so it's like playing the lotto that the next one gets to me. What if it's in even worse shape? This nick I can live with, others maybe not so much.

And, I would like to point out, all this time I am without the knife (though granted, I have others).

**** happens is fine and all, but this mistake happened not because the vendor made an honest mistake (ie wrong knife in the box), or because FEDEX screwed the pooch, but because someone didn't take the time to properly pack the box.

Oh yeah btw I actually measured it with a ruler it's 10mm and I'm still not upset enough to ask for any compensation. It will, eventually, sharpen out. You live, and you learn.


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## toddnmd (Mar 20, 2015)

If it was damaged due to careless packing, you shouldn't have to pay to return it. I think your credit card issue would side would side with you on this. 
If you're still satisfied with the knife you got for the price you paid, fine, keep it. It is somewhat harder to raise the issue when the knife is in high demand, and short supply. That's not right, but may be the situation. If you're not satisfied, I hope you will take this up with the vendor.


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## chinacats (Mar 21, 2015)

I agree that the credit card company or paypal would take your side so there is not real argument there. The problem once again is the vendor...I will say though that it does seem that when people post their problems with this vendor here on kkf that they seem to get better treatment than when they go it alone :scratchhead::tease:

I do hope that people recognize the value of our site's trusted vendors. I'm thinking the OP probably won't get screwed again by this guy but it does seem to be a good lesson for others beginning their exploration of J-knives.


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## EdipisReks (Mar 21, 2015)

redisburning said:


> So as an update, I got the Kono today.
> 
> Unfortunately, the knife had been packaged rather carelessly by _you know who_ and not only was the box damaged (a personal pet peeve, as I keep the boxes for the nice stuff I buy), but the last 6mm or so of the edge at the heel was very, very badly damaged (the whole of the actual edge broken off, though not that cleanly, of course  ). And frankly, if it wasn't because of the poor packing, it's even worse because that means someone took a damaged box and didn't bother to check the knife inside.
> 
> ...



Return the knife.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 21, 2015)

I made the call to keep the knife because of availability concerns. I have wanted this exact knife for a long time.

I have already cut with it and the rest of the edge needed a bit of work too. I told the vendor this via my email and I stated I understood that I had violated his return policy and didn't expect him to take it back. If he wants to make an exception to his policy AND he wants to offer something that mitigates my feelings towards the length of time I'm not going to have my knife, then that is his prerogative. That includes, btw, if he has another one and would swap them (though he sold all of them in 2 hours so I doubt that's on the table). It definitely doesnt have to be a credit or a gift. I do not expect anything, though if something is offered I will say so.

I'll be explicit; I did not and will not ask for/demand compensation. Or for an exception from him. I won't refuse them, either, but as it stands I have accepted the situation as is. 

Perhaps it's just me, but I'd rather have the knife with the last 10mm messed up than to have my 330 dollars back and no knife or to be without it 6 months, so that's the choice I've made. Should I expect more? Perhaps, or maybe I should just get on with my life and enjoy it. 

I don't know take a look for yourself and tell me if you still disagree; this is the full extent of the damage to the knife and the box, exact same image I sent to the vendor:


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## tcmx3 (Mar 21, 2015)

I should make my purpose clear here.

I'm willing to keep on about this because my *perception *is that my reasonably expensive purchase was not packaged properly, and at some point the box was impacted causing the damage you see above.

Rather than ask for a resolution to my specific case, I'd rather raise the question of whether you want to order from a vendor who does not give the care and consideration deserved to the customer to go through a relatively standard process of putting packing material in a box in such a way as to actually protect the item in transit. Any reasonable amount of bubble wrap actually wrapping the box, rather than just throwing some paper in the box with the knife box, would have prevented this from happening.

Perhaps what is lost in this is that I had a WONDERFUL experience with Tosho when I bought my Tanaka R2. Quick and packaged beyond the bare minimum. No matter how much I wanted the knife, you ultimately buy the seller before the product. At least that's the lesson *I* learned here.


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## labor of love (Mar 21, 2015)

I would send it back. I could live with a microchip OOTB, but I couldnt live with that amount of damage. Perhaps you could ask for store credit for a future purchase since you're set on keeping it? I dont think that would be an unreasonable request. It would be nice to receive compensation in some way for the damage.


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## panda (Mar 21, 2015)

meh, the last bit of the edge was ground too thin because of the current craze for 'super thin blades' these days. you're going to have a better cutting knife if you sharpen that chip out than in stock form honestly. i've had knives shipped to me in a padded envelope before with zero damage.

i had a kono fuji blue petty and was not pleased with it at all. the steel is not great, the grind is mediocre and the profile is too curvy. it seemed like it would be good on paper, not so much in real life.. i think they are highly over rated.


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## Ruso (Mar 23, 2015)

If I would be in your shoes I would be contacting the vendor right away and asking for the exchange.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 23, 2015)

Ruso said:


> If I would be in your shoes I would be contacting the vendor right away and asking for the exchange.



Actually as it happens based on this thread I have contacted the vendor.

I understand there was some sort of vacation taken and they do not answer the phone when I'm not at work. Such is life, I cannot begrudge someone for wanting some personal time. I do expect the email I sent over the weekend to be answered by EOD tomorrow, and I will update the thread. 

I wanted to keep the knife so I used it, and under normal circumstances I would not ask for an exception, but it struck me that the knife would have to go back to Sakai anyway, so I don't see how it would really hurt anyone just to swap it out. 

I will continue to share my experiences regarding this here as things happen; I do still feel that the situation is mainly on the vendor for not adequately packaging the knife and hope to see a positive resolution. In the end, I think there is something to be learned from this.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 31, 2015)

Update guys,

My refund was processed today by the vendor. Additionally, he sent FEDEX to pick it up at no charge to me. I will say also that I was contacted via phone and given an apology, so in the end all I am out is some of my time. BTW, this is why companies have insurance policies.

Anyway I picked up from the post office today a very nice box with a lovely handwritten letter inside from Jon. Ill post more details tomorrow assuming I actually make it home before it gets dark but here's a hint to what was inside the box: it's 240mm long and weighs more than that in grams.


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## schanop (Mar 31, 2015)

Nice move, a Heiji ?


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## James (Mar 31, 2015)

redisburning said:


> Update guys,
> 
> My refund was processed today by the vendor. Additionally, he sent FEDEX to pick it up at no charge to me. I will say also that I was contacted via phone and given an apology, so in the end all I am out is some of my time. BTW, this is why companies have insurance policies.
> 
> Anyway I picked up from the post office today a very nice box with a lovely handwritten letter inside from Jon. Ill post more details tomorrow assuming I actually make it home before it gets dark but here's a hint to what was inside the box: it's 240mm long and weighs more than that in grams.



That's great to hear


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## chinacats (Mar 31, 2015)

Sweet! It's always a treat opening a package from JKI.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 31, 2015)

schanop said:


> Nice move, a Heiji ?



lmao first post.

and yeah, 240 semi-stainless.


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## Ruso (Apr 1, 2015)

> My refund was processed today by the vendor. Additionally, he sent FEDEX to pick it up at no charge to me. I will say also that I was contacted via phone and given an apology, so in the end all I am out is some of my time


Glad to hear the thing were sorted out and looks like a pretty decent customer service.


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## kostantinos (Apr 3, 2015)

interested to hear your impression of Heiji after you use it for a couple of times...


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## mhlee (Apr 3, 2015)

redisburning said:


> Update guys,
> 
> My refund was processed today by the vendor. Additionally, he sent FEDEX to pick it up at no charge to me. I will say also that I was contacted via phone and given an apology, so in the end all I am out is some of my time. BTW, this is why companies have insurance policies.



Standard insurance does not insure defective products.


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## tcmx3 (Apr 3, 2015)

kostantinos said:


> interested to hear your impression of Heiji after you use it for a couple of times...



I really do intend to do an initial impressions write up but Ive had a long week and so far Ive only gotten to use it once. Thankfully the weekend is approaching.


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## tcmx3 (Apr 4, 2015)

Ok so super duper initial impressions:

First of all Jon's packaging was awesome. Tons of bubble wrap, and a standard but nice cardboard box. There were two letters; one explaining the origin of the line, and another, handwritten, thanking me for my business.

The knife also came with a nice saya. Cool. I dont really know enough about these to say much, other than I like it better than the one that came with the Tanaka. 

The knife itself is BIG for a 240; it's long and quite hefty. It could be sold as a 250 and you would still be shorting it a few mm. Balance point is also forward, so that's new for me. If the Tanaka is extremely neutral, the Heiji feels powerful.

The profile is new to me, as is the geometry. At least for me the heel curves up a bit which I think I actually like. Despite not having a noticeable flat, I havent experienced accordioning of food. The knife has a very crisp shinogi and food release is excellent. Wedging seems acceptable in tall, dense food. The knife is thin behind the edge. Overall it seems like a nice set of compromises, but it will take time for me to judge the knife properly. This is my 4th good kitchen knife so I can't really just grab it and make an assessment.

My goal is build a little collection of knives (~240 gyutos) worth owning and this definitely fills a spot in that. Im not sure it's the wide bevel spot, maybe the tank spot? LOL I suppose at some point Ill have to try a Kato to compare. Anyway, Im still looking forward to trying the Syousin Sakura which by all accounts is a very different knife, so that I can potentially add that one to my little brood. After all, what's one more knife :shocked3: 




240mm gyutos by lmaousrs, on Flickr


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## Cheeks1989 (Apr 4, 2015)

Nice pick up on the heiji that is my favorite knife.


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