# Tojiro DP in need of sharpening



## abepaniagua (Feb 14, 2018)

Hey guys,

I have 2 Tojiro DPs: a Santoku 7", and a pairing knife. They came sharp, but not razor sharp like you see on the videos...after 1 year an a half, they are still a bit sharp but they need sharpening for sure. Which stones would you recommend me? I got a low to medium budget right now.


----------



## Nemo (Feb 14, 2018)

Better fill in the questionnaire


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (Feb 14, 2018)

abepaniagua said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have 2 Tojiro DPs: a Santoku 7", and a pairing knife. They came sharp, but not razor sharp like you see on the videos...after 1 year an a half, they are still a bit sharp but they need sharpening for sure. Which stones would you recommend me? I got a low to medium budget right now.



You don't say how much your budget is, nor have you shared where you are located, so I'll assume your budget is less than $75 USD and your location is the US. 

At minimum you should get a medium grit (1000-1500) and fine grit (4000-6000) stone. Given your budget constraints, a two-sided combination stone is probably your best bet. Some recommendations:

Togiharu 1000/4000. The 4000 grit will leave a little "tooth" which many prefer: http://www.korin.com/Togiharu-1000-4000-Two-Sided-Stone_2?sc=27&category=280108

Mizuyama 1000/6000. A wider stone that makes sharpening a little more efficient. The 6000 grit leaves a more highly polished edge than the 4000 grit. http://www.korin.com/Mizuyama-1000-6000-Two-side-Stone_3?sc=27&category=280108

King 1000/6000. A little smaller than the other stones, but it will get the job done: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DT1X9O/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


----------



## abepaniagua (Feb 14, 2018)

Nemo said:


> Better fill in the questionnaire



I keep missing the questionnaire. I'm sorry, it's been a while since I've been part of a forum.



Pensacola Tiger said:


> You don't say how much your budget is, nor have you shared where you are located, so I'll assume your budget is less than $75 USD and your location is the US.
> 
> At minimum you should get a medium grit (1000-1500) and fine grit (4000-6000) stone. Given your budget constraints, a two-sided combination stone is probably your best bet. Some recommendations:
> 
> ...



I'm in the USA. Budget is around $50-75. I am learning how to sharpen, and the knives are not blunt. The two-sided stones look good. Do I need a coarse stone?


----------



## chinacats (Feb 14, 2018)

Do you plan on thinning or just sharpening? If not thinning and you aren't in need of any repair work then you won't need a coarse stone. You'll need something to flatten with before you need a coarse stone but if on a budget you can use a piece of drywall screen and a flat surface like glass or tile.


----------



## abepaniagua (Feb 14, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Do you plan on thinning or just sharpening? If not thinning and you aren't in need of any repair work then you won't need a coarse stone. You'll need something to flatten with before you need a coarse stone but if on a budget you can use a piece of drywall screen and a flat surface like glass or tile.



A friend just told me he could get me the King KDS 1k/6k. I wouldn't be thinning, just sharpening I think. Can I flatten with a sandpaper?


----------



## chinacats (Feb 14, 2018)

Sandpaper will work but you'll still want a flat surface to back it. You can grab a piece of glass or tile from a hardware store on the cheap. Not sure what the kds is but the king 1k/6k I know will need constant flattening...but will work just fine.


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (Feb 14, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Sandpaper will work but you'll still want a flat surface to back it. You can grab a piece of glass or tile from a hardware store on the cheap. Not sure what the kds is but the king 1k/6k I know will need constant flattening...but will workjust fine.



King KDS: https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...bo-stones/products/king-1000-6000-combo-stone


----------



## Pensacola Tiger (Feb 14, 2018)

abepaniagua said:


> A friend just told me he could get me the King KDS 1k/6k. I wouldn't be thinning, just sharpening I think. Can I flatten with a sandpaper?



Yes, wet/dry automotive sandpaper on a flat surface. Drywall screen works better as it doesn't load like wet/dry does.


----------



## Xenif (Feb 14, 2018)

I have a tojiro 180mm gyoto and I use the king 1000/6000. In my opinion (as a noob as I just got my first stones three months ago, but have sharpened about 40 knives on them), the 1000 side is OK, but not great especially for the Tojiro VG10, I have a Suehiro 1000/3000 that I personally find works better for the VG. Maybr the guru/demi gods will explain why [emoji14]


----------



## abepaniagua (Feb 15, 2018)

Xenif said:


> I have a tojiro 180mm gyoto and I use the king 1000/6000. In my opinion (as a noob as I just got my first stones three months ago, but have sharpened about 40 knives on them), the 1000 side is OK, but not great especially for the Tojiro VG10, I have a Suehiro 1000/3000 that I personally find works better for the VG. Maybr the guru/demi gods will explain why [emoji14]



That's good to know. I'll see what others say.


----------



## StonedEdge (Feb 15, 2018)

Im no professional but in my experience, the Tojiro DP VG10 steel benefits from having the burr or wire edge abraded away with progressively finer stones until the apex at the edge is clean enough. It seems to be a steel that creates a stubborn burr. I've found the key to achieving that hair raising sharpness is to make sure there is as little of the burr or wire edge left as possible before moving on to the next stone. Some final stopping also works well. I personally find it to be on the more challenging side of things sharpening-wise.


----------



## Benuser (Feb 15, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> Im no professional but in my experience, the Tojiro DP VG10 steel benefits from having the burr or wire edge abraded away with progressively finer stones until the apex at the edge is clean enough. It seems to be a steel that creates a stubborn burr. I've found the key to achieving that hair raising sharpness is to make sure there is as little of the burr or wire edge left as possible before moving on to the next stone. Some final stopping also works well. I personally find it to be on the more challenging side of things sharpening-wise.



+1

So you will need a full progression.


----------



## abepaniagua (Feb 15, 2018)

Benuser said:


> +1
> 
> So you will need a full progression. And sharpening VG-10 on sandpaper is asking for a wire edge.



1k/6k?


----------



## Benuser (Feb 15, 2018)

Rather 1, 2, 4, 6k or so. No jumps.


----------



## Xenif (Feb 15, 2018)

Benuser said:


> Rather 1,2,4k or so. No jumps.


+1

I tried just going 1k to 6k, didnt get a good result

But when i went 1k-3k-6k then strop it came out much much better


----------



## StonedEdge (Feb 15, 2018)

I start even lower like 600/700 because I find 1k to be too slow as the initial stone
Mind you last time I sharpened a Tojiro DP was to remove small nicks and chips so maybe for you that won't be necessary. But definitely see the sharpness improve as you polish beyond 2/3k


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 15, 2018)

I assume the steel and HT in the DP is the same as in my single bevel ZENs?

If it is: Forget anything (thinning, other geometry improvement) but sharpening the edge with a king. That steel will make a chosera 400 work HARD.


----------



## harlock0083 (Feb 16, 2018)

abepaniagua said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have 2 Tojiro DPs: a Santoku 7", and a pairing knife. They came sharp, but not razor sharp like you see on the videos...after 1 year an a half, they are still a bit sharp but they need sharpening for sure. Which stones would you recommend me? I got a low to medium budget right now.



You went 1.5 years without sharpening? :eek2:


----------



## daveb (Feb 16, 2018)

I've done Tojiros with 1/6K combos and everything was fine. But. 

Like the 1/4K suggestion. Priced right and will work well. The Tojiro will realize no discernible benefit from going to a 6K finish rather than 4K


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 16, 2018)

I could imagine a home cook getting by 1.5 years with a good VG10, IF

-they aren't into cutting-intense food (Wok dishes etc.) much 
-they use either a ceramic rod or strops expertly
-the knife was perfectly sharpened (not: your usual OOTB edge ...) at the start.


----------



## abepaniagua (Feb 16, 2018)

harlock0083 said:


> You went 1.5 years without sharpening? :eek2:



Yeah :/ - I used a ceramic honing device or sharpener called Minosharp 3, but that's for global knives. The "fine" grit on one of the wheels actually helped the Tojiros but I don't think I should use it for the DPs metal.


----------



## abepaniagua (Feb 16, 2018)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> I could imagine a home cook getting by 1.5 years with a good VG10, IF
> 
> -they aren't into cutting-intense food (Wok dishes etc.) much
> -they use either a ceramic rod or strops expertly
> -the knife was perfectly sharpened (not: your usual OOTB edge ...) at the start.



I used them for vegetables and meat mainly. And have a Minosharp 3 (which has 3 different ceramic stones) which helped.


----------



## harlock0083 (Feb 16, 2018)

abepaniagua said:


> I used them for vegetables and meat mainly. And have a Minosharp 3 (which has 3 different ceramic stones) which helped.



Ah, I see. I'm guessing your knife needs to thinned. Maybe a bester 1200 and a Rika 3 or 5k to start. They're budgety but get the job done. Oh and something to flatten your stones with. Welcome to the rabbit hole.


----------



## Benuser (Feb 16, 2018)

If you have sharpened it during all that time it will have become thick behind the edge and serious thinning will be needed.

https://s19.postimg.org/6nbg1qy03/sharpen4.jpg


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 16, 2018)

A 1200 for undoing the non-thinning that using a minosharp-like device on a knife it is not designed for will create after 1.5 years?

Warning: Thinning is likely to mess up the blade finish, and restoring it is hard to do with stones alone (unless you want to go all beta-togi on this one - would not recommend it...). Sandpaper and patience necessary.


----------



## StonedEdge (Feb 16, 2018)

It's a Tojiro DP.... thin it, sharpen it, nevermind the finish, focus on its cutting ability.


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 16, 2018)

After thinning, removing the burr the rude way and then going for the actual sharpening progression might be helpful...


----------



## harlock0083 (Feb 16, 2018)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> After thinning, removing the burr the rude way and then going for the actual sharpening progression might be helpful...



What's the rude way to remove a burr?


----------



## StonedEdge (Feb 16, 2018)

harlock0083 said:


> What's the rude way to remove a burr?


You just disappear and never call it back


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 16, 2018)

Hardwood.


----------



## harlock0083 (Feb 16, 2018)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> A 1200 for undoing the non-thinning that using a minosharp-like device on a knife it is not designed for will create after 1.5 years?
> 
> Warning: Thinning is likely to mess up the blade finish, and restoring it is hard to do with stones alone (unless you want to go all beta-togi on this one - would not recommend it...). Sandpaper and patience necessary.



Good point. It'll probably take a long time to thin on a 1200. 

abepaniagua, maybe you could post a picture of the choil.


----------



## harlock0083 (Feb 16, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> You just disappear and never call it back



Nice.


----------



## abepaniagua (Feb 17, 2018)

harlock0083 said:


> Good point. It'll probably take a long time to thin on a 1200.
> 
> abepaniagua, maybe you could post a picture of the choil.



Ok. I'll take a picture of both and post it later.


----------



## ThEoRy (Feb 18, 2018)

Benuser said:


> Rather 1, 2, 4, 6k or so. No jumps.





Xenif said:


> +1
> 
> I tried just going 1k to 6k, didnt get a good result
> 
> But when i went 1k-3k-6k then strop it came out much much better



Never had a problem going 1k straight to 5k on tojiro or any other vg10..what seemed to be the problem?


----------



## Xenif (Feb 18, 2018)

ThEoRy said:


> Never had a problem going 1k straight to 5k on tojiro or any other vg10..what seemed to be the problem?


May be a skill problem, as Im new to this, and I've only sharpened 4 Tojiros.

But I felt the cut paper (I test the entire blade heel to tip then tip to heel) it felt "smoother" half way into the cut when I did 1-3-6 vs 1-6. Again I am a noob at this still so I will take any good advices


----------



## chinacats (Feb 18, 2018)

My guess would be a lack of pressure control. On the 1k (and all stones) you should use progressively less pressure as you sharpen...in other words you probably don't need to spend more time on each stone but start with light pressure and use less and less pressure with that stone before moving to the next. Off a 1k when finished your paper test cut should be pretty smooth. Then do the same with your 6k...I agree there should be no need for anything in between those stones, vg10 or whatever...that said, it's much easier to develop your touch (and sharpen in general) with a simple carbon steel blade.


----------

