# PPE, but mostly Respirator Questions



## blorp (Jul 18, 2020)

Hey all,

I'm looking to start making wa-style handles soon, but I want to make sure I'm not going to kill myself doing so. I'll be wearing safety glasses, jeans, and an apron (aside from the normal shoes, shirt, etc). However, I wanted to know what filters/cartridges you use. Are solid filters enough, or will I need gas protection too? In addition I want to know if anyone uses a positive pressure respirator and/or if you wear a respirator with a short beard/stubble

I expect to get to exotic and stabilized woods eventually, but for right now I'm just practicing shaping on red oak.


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## Bear (Jul 18, 2020)

If your just getting into particulates from dust you could probably get by with just a 3M N95, if your spraying finishes, a half mask, or full mask. I use a half mask for lacquers and full mask for epoxies with an organic vapor cartridge and pre filters on both.


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## blorp (Jul 18, 2020)

Bear said:


> If your just getting into particulates from dust you could probably get by with just a 3M N95, if your spraying finishes, a half mask, or full mask. I use a half mask for lacquers and full mask for epoxies with an organic vapor cartridge and pre filters on both.



Is it really that bad to be around epoxies, or is it just the sheer repetition thats the issue?


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## Bensbites (Jul 18, 2020)

epoxies are non volitle and not an issue. I use 3m half face respirator and p100 ( I think that the type) filters for particulates. I will not work with things containing fiberglass such as G10 or carbon fiber.


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## Matus (Jul 18, 2020)

I use half-face mask from 3M with A2 cartridges and P3 particle filters. I can’t smell acetone or epoxy through these filters and P3 keeps the dust away from my lungs.


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## Bear (Jul 18, 2020)

The biggest reason for the full mask on epoxies is to protect my glasses. The kitchen epoxies I use are catalyzed with acid, they aren't water based, its pretty hard on your lungs.


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## SeattleBen (Jul 18, 2020)

blorp said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm looking to start making wa-style handles soon, but I want to make sure I'm not going to kill myself doing so. I'll be wearing safety glasses, jeans, and an apron (aside from the normal shoes, shirt, etc). However, I wanted to know what filters/cartridges you use. Are solid filters enough, or will I need gas protection too? In addition I want to know if anyone uses a positive pressure respirator and/or if you wear a respirator with a short beard/stubble
> 
> I expect to get to exotic and stabilized woods eventually, but for right now I'm just practicing shaping on red oak.




When you get professionally fit tested to wear a half or full face respirator you must be clean shaven to ensure a full and proper seal. It's virtually impossible to pass the test without being clean shaven. Many people that I know, once fitted, won't maintain that level of clean shave and if you're working with a dirtier medium you can tell that they've been breathing it in. (Mostly what I'm referring to here is concrete or silica exposure and when my coworkers come out of a vault you can see it on their face under their mask) At the end of the day your decision on what mask, or even if you bother to wear one should be made based on how much exposure to what you're comfortable with. me personally, I'm pro erring on the side of caution.


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## Tim Rowland (Jul 18, 2020)

I wear a full face mask with p100 filters weather grinding steel, exotic woods, or synthetic materials like g10 and carbon fiber.
Every once in a while if I am just cutting dowels or applying finishes I will wear a half mask still with p100 filters.
I do have facial hair and that is why I wear a full face fitted 3m mask. I also use a large dust collection system while grinding and as soon as I stop grinding keep the dust collector running for a minute or two before shutting off. Then immediately turn on my 1200cfm air purifier.
This may sound like a lot but go ahead and grind something like cocobolo or g-10 without these precautions and after 10 minutes you will be feeling the effects.

These are the masks that I use:


https://www.amazon.com/3M-Safety-142-6800-Reusable-Respirator/dp/B01FNESDJW/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3RKNICF44RKLM&dchild=1&keywords=3m+full+face+mask&qid=1595116912&sprefix=3m+%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-2





https://www.amazon.com/Respirator-Replaceable-Reusable-Filters-Included/dp/B07ZHWD2DR


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## Kippington (Jul 18, 2020)

blorp said:


> I want to know if anyone uses a positive pressure respirator.



I have one. Get one if you can afford it, they're so much better than the normal masks. They're not cheap though...

My old mask would never have a perfect seal around my face, and I would be breathing in all kinds of dust even while wearing it.
I don't have the same problem with my PAPR mask (Cleanspace Ultra). An imperfect fit is not a problem, as the dirty air never gets sucked in through the gaps. Instead, clean air is always pushed out.


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## Bensbites (Jul 18, 2020)

Bear said:


> The biggest reason for the full mask on epoxies is to protect my glasses. The kitchen epoxies I use are catalyzed with acid, they aren't water based, its pretty hard on your lungs.


Can I ask what epoxy you use? Thanks


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## blorp (Jul 19, 2020)

Tim Rowland said:


> I wear a full face mask with p100 filters weather grinding steel, exotic woods, or synthetic materials like g10 and carbon fiber.
> Every once in a while if I am just cutting dowels or applying finishes I will wear a half mask still with p100 filters.
> I do have facial hair and that is why I wear a full face fitted 3m mask. I also use a large dust collection system while grinding and as soon as I stop grinding keep the dust collector running for a minute or two before shutting off. Then immediately turn on my 1200cfm air purifier.
> This may sound like a lot but go ahead and grind something like cocobolo or g-10 without these precautions and after 10 minutes you will be feeling the effects.
> ...


Side bar, is that drill press serving you well?

Back on subject, how much does the purifier do?


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## blorp (Jul 19, 2020)

Kippington said:


> I have one. Get one if you can afford it, they're so much better than the normal masks. They're not cheap though...
> 
> My old mask would never have a perfect seal around my face, and I would be breathing in all kinds of dust even while wearing it.
> I don't have the same problem with my PAPR mask (Cleanspace Ultra). An imperfect fit is not a problem, as the dirty air never gets sucked in through the gaps. Instead, clean air is always pushed out.



Yeah looks like sadly that will have to be a "down the road" type option for me right now. Not sure what their regular prices are either because of covid, but I will definitely keep looking for them.


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## Tim Rowland (Jul 19, 2020)

blorp said:


> Side bar, is that drill press serving you well?
> 
> Back on subject, how much does the purifier do?



Yes the drill press serves me fine for its purpose. I use it mainly for wood and use a larger drill press for metal.....the small WEN in capable of doing metal as it is variable speed but I have it set up dedicated for drilling wood blanks at the moment.

The air purifier is one of the best investments I have gotten for the shop.
My shop area is about 12'x24' and It does a really good job of pulling all the small airborne dust particles in a relatively decent amount of time.


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## billyO (Jul 19, 2020)

Bensbites said:


> epoxies are non volitle and not an issue.


I feel I should add here: provided you're running your grinder at a slow enough speed and using fresh enough belts to avoid burning the epoxies or other synthetic materials. If you can smell it, it's getting in your lungs.


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## billyO (Jul 19, 2020)

Kippington said:


> Get one if you can afford it,


About how much should one expect to pay these days? Any recommendations on brands?


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## parbaked (Jul 19, 2020)

billyO said:


> Any recommendations on brands?


Kip referenced Cleanspace Ultra in his post:








CleanSpace ULTRA Powered Respirator - CleanSpace Technology


The CleanSpace ULTRA Powered Respirator is an air-purifying respirator (PAPR) suitable for environments requiring face/eye protection and water tolerance (IP Rated 66). Request a demo today.




cleanspacetechnology.com


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## ian (Jul 19, 2020)

****, it's like $1000. Is this, like, an expensive hobby then? Maybe I should quit while I've only invested in a few synthetic stones and a couple diamond plates.


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## blorp (Jul 19, 2020)

billyO said:


> I feel I should add here: provided you're running your grinder at a slow enough speed and using fresh enough belts to avoid burning the epoxies or other synthetic materials. If you can smell it, it's getting in your lungs.



But if you've just applied epoxy a handful of times, and not sanded it, I should be fine right?


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## Bensbites (Jul 19, 2020)

billyO said:


> I feel I should add here: provided you're running your grinder at a slow enough speed and using fresh enough belts to avoid burning the epoxies or other synthetic materials. If you can smell it, it's getting in your lungs.


Oh, I guess I wasn’t clear. Mixing epoxy and glueing up handles is a zero VOC activity with the epoxies I use. Whenever I grind/sand I wear a respirator. I use duct collection as long as I am not grinding steel creating a fire hazard.


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## inferno (Jul 19, 2020)

i would get any mask that has removable cartridges and a rubber interface (where the face meets the mask). that way you get a good seal. 

there is also the 3m non removable cartridge ones. my dad says these are better than all the ones with removable carts. since they seal better and there is no weight that will break the seal when moving around. in a paint shop they last around 1-1,5 months if used 8h a day.

pick your poison. i have both, when i just want to protect myself from dust and minor solvents i use the removable cart ones. and when i know there will be lots of solvents and chems for maybe hours. i go with the 3m without carts. i have the thickest highest spec'd ones.


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## inferno (Jul 19, 2020)

Bensbites said:


> Oh, I guess I wasn’t clear. Mixing epoxy and glueing up handles is a zero VOC activity with the epoxies I use. Whenever I grind/sand I wear a respirator. I use duct collection as long as I am not grinding steel creating a fire hazard.



epoxies are not "safe" to glue up and paint with. at least not if you are doing it all day long. the solvents are the least of your worries here. and its the least of your worries with hardening paints too. 

with all quality (hardening) paints you have a hardener, usually some kind of isocyanate, this is dangerous, and most carbon filters cant filter it out at all. 

with epoxies you dont have any isocyanates but instead you get lots of carbon monomers in the air, and they will keep releasing these for maybe a month while outgassing. these are just as dangerous supposedly.


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## inferno (Jul 19, 2020)

also a tip to anyone into gluing ****. dont get it on your skin. use nitrile gloves. change them every minute if you have to.
just because you dont die immediately doesn't really mean its safe. getting epoxy glue on your skin is extremely unsafe!!
seen to many idiots on youtube gluing **** getting it all over them... wow. its all i can say.

i have been in the "glue shops" where they make fighter jets. and they use full body suits and fresh air supplies and double gloves. for a good reason. guess what reason??

rasping/filing/sanding/grinding hardened epoxy is much safer. as long as you dont get above a certain temp point where it turns into a gas..


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## blorp (Jul 19, 2020)

inferno said:


> also a tip to anyone into gluing ****. dont get it on your skin. use nitrile gloves. change them every minute if you have to.
> just because you dont die immediately doesn't really mean its safe. getting epoxy glue on your skin is extremely unsafe!!
> seen to many idiots on youtube gluing **** getting it all over them... wow. its all i can say.
> 
> ...



What's specifically the issue with epoxy on skin btw?


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## Kippington (Jul 19, 2020)

ian said:


> ****, it's like $1000. Is this, like, an expensive hobby then? Maybe I should quit while I've only invested in a few synthetic stones and a couple diamond plates.


Dude, if you think my PAPR is expensive, check out the cost of the 3M ones...








versaflo tr300+ kit and m300 helmet high capacity battery, charger, filter ,hose | eBay


Tr300+ blower unit.



www.ebay.com


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## billyO (Jul 20, 2020)

Not sure if these come with P100 filter options, but here's a less expensive version, but still not cheap.





TREND-U*AIR/PRO | Acme Tools


TREND-U*AIR/PRO Air Shield Pro Air Circulating Face Shield - available at AcmeTools.com. See TREND-U*AIR/PRO plus more TREND at Acme Tools.




www.acmetools.com


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## HSC /// Knives (Jul 20, 2020)

I use the 3M half mask with a quick release. The quick release drop down is super important as I work full-time and I can’t be taking it on and off all the time. 

recently I bought a moldex 8000 without quick release and the face seal is pretty good but I’m not that happy with the strap design compared to 3m. I think the strap design is not very good and therefore I wouldn’t recommend it


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## blorp (Jul 20, 2020)

HSC /// Knives said:


> I use the 3M half mask with a quick release. The quick release drop down is super important as I work full-time and I can’t be taking it on and off all the time.
> 
> recently I bought a moldex 8000 without quick release and the face seal is pretty good but I’m not that happy with the strap design compared to 3m. I think the strap design is not very good and therefore I wouldn’t recommend it



What's the specific model?


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## HSC /// Knives (Jul 20, 2020)

blorp said:


> What's the specific model?


Of the 3M? I don’t know. Otherwise I would’ve bought another one of those. Doesn’t have any identification marks that I can see. I believe I got it from tru grit in Ontario California


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## blorp (Jul 20, 2020)

HSC /// Knives said:


> Of the 3M? I don’t know. Otherwise I would’ve bought another one of those. Doesn’t have any identification marks that I can see. I believe I got it from tru grit in Ontario California



Yes the 3M, but thanks! I'll see if I can find one of those around too


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## Seffers93 (Aug 6, 2020)

Currently looking for a respirator as I'm setting up a small garage knife shop after my wife and I close on our new house at the end of the month. 
Didn't dawn on me until I started looking that they would be hard to find with COVID. I see the full face mask Tim Rowland pictured above is in stock on amazon. Might have to go ahead and jump on it and find something better later when they become more available.


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## Tim Rowland (Aug 6, 2020)

The 3m full face mask from Amazon works good, but not great.
I highly suggest adding a air filter to run as well. A box fan blowing out while the garage door is open will help a ton and then the air filter to run for an hour or two after closing the door after grinding will help with cutting down on all the fine dust settling.


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## Seffers93 (Aug 6, 2020)

Tim Rowland said:


> The 3m full face mask from Amazon works good, but not great.
> I highly suggest adding a air filter to run as well. A box fan blowing out while the garage door is open will help a ton and then the air filter to run for an hour or two after closing the door after grinding will help with cutting down on all the fine dust settling.



I'll add an air filter to my supplies list! Thanks for the tips!


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## Bensbites (Aug 6, 2020)

Tim Rowland said:


> The 3m full face mask from Amazon works good, but not great.
> I highly suggest adding a air filter to run as well. A box fan blowing out while the garage door is open will help a ton and then the air filter to run for an hour or two after closing the door after grinding will help with cutting down on all the fine dust settling.


I run 2 hepa filters in my basement workshop 24/7. I noticed a difference in air quality when I take off my respirator.


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