# Difference between Kagekiyo and Gesshin Kagekiyo



## Bettencourt1329 (Aug 29, 2019)

I’m want to buy a kagekiyo 270mm sujihiki white #2 and im seeing a Gesshin kagekiyo on Japanese knife imports and then I’m seeing kagekiyo (not Gesshin) on other sites. I was wondering what the difference is if any and if anyone has any experience with these knives . 

Thanks !


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## Elliot (Aug 29, 2019)

The truth is, I would recommend calling Jon at JKI and asking. He's a straight shooter.


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## SilverSwarfer (Sep 1, 2019)

I have a Kagekiyo Tsurugi Yanagiba in Shiro1. The steel is amazing! F&F is a solid A. 

This particular Yanagiba is light and agile for 300mm. From spine to edge it’s very narrow. The tip is exactly in line with the spine. The narrow, light, unusual profile make it a bit of an oddball that probably doesn’t make any sense to most folks. It has a delicate and precise feel. 

OOTB, there were several stubborn low spots on the blade road. But that’s not a performance inhibitor in the least. It’s an aesthetic detail that’s been present in every kireha I can remember since I had sense enough to know about it. 

I would confidently buy another Kagekiyo.


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## daveb (Sep 1, 2019)

Question is best posed to Jon. You could even post it in his subforum.


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## Bettencourt1329 (Sep 1, 2019)

Got my answer from Jon already, thanks guys !


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## SilverSwarfer (Sep 1, 2019)

Bettencourt1329 said:


> Got my answer from Jon already, thanks guys !


Would it be fair to ask for the results?


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## Bettencourt1329 (Sep 1, 2019)

Yea closing at work right now . Give me an hour or so to summarize


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## flying hippo (Sep 1, 2019)

SilverSwarfer said:


> Bettencourt1329 said:
> 
> 
> > Got my answer from Jon already, thanks guys !
> ...



I was curious about this myself. Is the answer something you can post here or is it something that Jon needs to keep quiet?


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## MarkC (Sep 1, 2019)

Following and curious.


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## Bettencourt1329 (Sep 1, 2019)

(In general, the Gesshin series allows us to keep track of what is from us versus what is from somewhere else. This makes differences in terms of long-term care and maintenance, and the kind of service that we can offer. In many cases, we try to make sure that we differentiate beyond that by adjusting various aspects of the knife to suit my personal tastes. However, we found that in a number of cases, like the Gesshin Kagekiyo series, the adjustments that we ask for our often incorporated series as a whole.)- Jon. Jon basically explained that when he started carrying the Kagekiyo he asked for adjustments to be made and then these adjustments became the kagekiyo standard for all models . As Jon makes modifications over the years , these modifications often become the standard.


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## Patrick Gilmartin (Sep 1, 2019)

While I've never used a Gesshin Kagekiyo, I'm a total kagekiyo fanboy, and any blade you get, I think, will blow you away.


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## labor of love (Sep 1, 2019)

Interesting, haven’t used a kagekiyo in about 4-5 years. Wasn’t to crazy about the wh2 240mm gyuto.


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## JBroida (Sep 1, 2019)

there have been changes since then for sure

(but i still think you probably have a preferene for other knives instead... i dont think the kagekiyo stuff is your style so much... you might like the white #1 series, but its also much more expensive and more brittle)


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## flying hippo (Sep 1, 2019)

Bettencourt1329 said:


> (In general, the Gesshin series allows us to keep track of what is from us versus what is from somewhere else. This makes differences in terms of long-term care and maintenance, and the kind of service that we can offer. In many cases, we try to make sure that we differentiate beyond that by adjusting various aspects of the knife to suit my personal tastes. However, we found that in a number of cases, like the Gesshin Kagekiyo series, the adjustments that we ask for our often incorporated series as a whole.)- Jon. Jon basically explained that when he started carrying the Kagekiyo he asked for adjustments to be made and then these adjustments became the kagekiyo standard for all models . As Jon makes modifications over the years , these modifications often become the standard.





JBroida said:


> there have been changes since then for sure
> 
> (but i still think you probably have a preferene for other knives instead... i dont think the kagekiyo stuff is your style so much... you might like the white #1 series, but its also much more expensive and more brittle)



Thank you both for the input!


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## Bettencourt1329 (Sep 2, 2019)

Yea kinda starting to stray away from the kagekiyo. Any recommendations on a Badass suji?


JBroida said:


> there have been changes since then for sure
> 
> (but i still think you probably have a preferene for other knives instead... i dont think the kagekiyo stuff is your style so much... you might like the white #1 series, but its also much more expensive and more brittle)


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## daddy yo yo (Sep 2, 2019)

Another reason to buy from JKI. If there is a knife from JKI's range which I can also purchase elsewhere, I would always and happily buy from JKI. Don't know Jon or anyone at JKI personally, but I have shopped there (online) and it has always beena a very pleasant experience. I would not take the risk to have anything less than JKI's service and quality control. I am not saying knives purchased elsewhere are of lesser quality, but JKI's reputation is impeccable. This is why I would always shop with JKI.


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## Tanalasta (Sep 2, 2019)

Agree best to give JKI a call or an email. My understanding is that Gesshin is JKI's house brand - i.e. the knives have been ordered with input from JKI, to their standard or preferences and that they are then sold as Gesshin with that standard in mind. 

And also with the customer service that it entails.


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## labor of love (Sep 2, 2019)

Bettencourt1329 said:


> Yea kinda starting to stray away from the kagekiyo. Any recommendations on a Badass suji?


What sort of knives are you into? Personally if I was looking for a suji @ JKI I’d grab either kochi or ittetsu suji. But it depends what you’re looking for.


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## JBroida (Sep 2, 2019)

Bettencourt1329 said:


> Yea kinda starting to stray away from the kagekiyo. Any recommendations on a Badass suji?


feel free to e-mail me for recommendations... i just feel like it takes away from the environment here when i do that kind of thing on here


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## Chef Doom (Sep 3, 2019)

daddy yo yo said:


> Another reason to buy from JKI. If there is a knife from JKI's range which I can also purchase elsewhere, I would always and happily buy from JKI. Don't know Jon or anyone at JKI personally, but I have shopped there (online) and it has always beena a very pleasant experience. I would not take the risk to have anything less than JKI's service and quality control. I am not saying knives purchased elsewhere are of lesser quality, but JKI's reputation is impeccable. This is why I would always shop with JKI.


The higher quality fit and finish is worth it.


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## jacko9 (Sep 3, 2019)

Just to add to the experiences of JKI, I bought the 270 Kagekiyo W#2 from Jon and enjoy it every time I have a roast to slice. Fit and finish was excellent and the steel holds a great edge which Jon supplied for me before shipping.


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## labor of love (Sep 3, 2019)

jacko9 said:


> Just to add to the experiences of JKI, I bought the 270 Kagekiyo W#2 from Jon and enjoy it every time I have a roast to slice. Fit and finish was excellent and the steel holds a great edge which Jon supplied for me before shipping.


sujihiki or gyuto?


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## MarkC (Sep 3, 2019)

jacko9 said:


> Just to add to the experiences of JKI, I bought the 270 Kagekiyo W#2 from Jon and enjoy it every time I have a roast to slice. Fit and finish was excellent and the steel holds a great edge which Jon supplied for me before shipping.


Just wish he was a bit less popular. Always sold out these days


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## jacko9 (Sep 3, 2019)

I bought the 270 Sujihiki with a matching Saya and it is a very, very great knife. When I decided to buy one I spoke with Jon on the phone for several minutes and he discussed what I wanted to use it for and offered me two other alternatives (which were cheaper). I'm glad I purchased the Kagekiyo Suji.


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## Gregmega (Sep 3, 2019)

I just go to JKI for the meat breaks.


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## Gregmega (Sep 3, 2019)

Oh yeah, and the kagekiyo and the heiji and the kochi and rocks and the.....


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## DitmasPork (Sep 4, 2019)

Gregmega said:


> I just go to JKI for the meat breaks.


What’s the “meat breaks”?


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## JBroida (Sep 4, 2019)

DitmasPork said:


> What’s the “meat breaks”?


sometimes, when i get tired of answering e-mails, we stop and cook some meat

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIYR7BaDiYa/


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## DitmasPork (Sep 4, 2019)

JBroida said:


> sometimes, when i get tired of answering e-mails, we stop and cook some meat
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BIYR7BaDiYa/


Oh man! I was expecting to see hotdogs and ham sandwiches on the IG link, not koji aged duck!!! I gotta get to LA more often.


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## Caleb Cox (Sep 4, 2019)

JBroida said:


> sometimes, when i get tired of answering e-mails, we stop and cook some meat
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BIYR7BaDiYa/


"Chicken grease? Dad, this is duck."


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## JBroida (Sep 4, 2019)

Caleb Cox said:


> "Chicken grease? Dad, this is duck."


dude... just watched that the other night... laughed my ass off


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## JBroida (Sep 4, 2019)

DitmasPork said:


> Oh man! I was expecting to see hotdogs and ham sandwiches on the IG link, not koji aged duck!!! I gotta get to LA more often.


almost everyone here has restaurant experience... we need that creative outlet

check out this lamb we did a while back:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BEcZpyvTMvA/


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## DitmasPork (Sep 4, 2019)

JBroida said:


> almost everyone here has restaurant experience... we need that creative outlet
> 
> check out this lamb we did a while back:
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BEcZpyvTMvA/


You could throw a killer potluck with the peeps you know. 

Back on track—with makers like Kagekiyo, and others you work with, how often do you finesse and tweak the knives?

For instance, the Kochi I bought back around 2013/14, appears to have a slightly more bullnose-like profile, and my Kagero from the same time has a handle that tapers towards the back. Very interested in the creative process and evolution of knives.


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## JBroida (Sep 4, 2019)

not just with kagekiyo, but literally almost every time we order, we are making small adjustments (sometimes larger ones too). This can be in response to changes i had planned, how things were made in the last batch, customer requests, issues we noticed along the way, or updates based on my conversations with the craftsmen and what they would like to try.

A lot comes down to my personal tastes, as its easier for me to sell things i'm stoked on, so our inventory really reflects what i like.


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## ThinMan (Sep 6, 2019)

JBroida said:


> sometimes, when i get tired of answering e-mails, we stop and cook some meat
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BIYR7BaDiYa/



Heading to the airport now ...


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