# Custom Profile Honyaki Gyuto, Kenji Togashi/Tosa, from K&S - Initial impressions



## khashy (Feb 20, 2018)

I thought it might be a good idea to shine some light on the new custom profile honyaki gyutos that Knives and Stones have made available from the collaboration with Sakai Takayuki.







Please excuse the background...

I candidly dubbed this knife TheJames when it was being made, as I knew that James was involved in the design of the profile in every stage and I think the name kind of stuck! Of course the official name is Shinko white flame.

These gyutos are forged by Kenji Togashi and sharpened by Tosa-san. Im pretty sure neither craftsman needs introductions but Im sure James can step in and provide any info required about them.

The gyutos are made in Blue#1 and White#2 steels. I was lucky enough to get my hands on the Syousin bluefrost Blue#1 honyaki gyuto that K&S stocked some time ago, therefore decided to get the new custom profile gyuto in white#2. I believe this is the first one that K&S have shipped :doublethumbsup:

I have only had it for a day so have not had a chance to cut anything with it, therefore everything you are reading is based on visual assessment of the knife.


Initial Impressions

Well, what can I say, Im a sucker for a nice hamon and this certainly has one. The white#2 blade comes with a frosty finish (whereas I believe the Blue#1 is mirror polished) and the hamon certainly stands out. 

James was also kind enough to allow me to pick my own handle and I ended up going for the Ringed Gidgee with horn cap and ferrule and three Nickle Silver spacers. Its not a cheap handle by any measures but I think it really works for a knife of this caliber.
Besides the hamon and the handle, the next thing that hit me was the profile. I had seen photos of it before but its actually different in real life to what I had imagined. In the photos it came across as almost a funayuki to me, however it isnt. 

The profile is actually really well thought out and subsequently beautifully executed. The 240 gyuto's blade runs long and thats a good thing. This has allowed for a beautifully generous flat spot of the cutting edge and still enough curve to allow rocking. Personally I do not rock cut at all, rather chop or push cut, therefore the flat makes a world of difference to me. 

Then there is the tip - oh god that tip.... 

I spent a good bit of time examining this last night (to the displeasure of my wife I might add) and I think this tip is utterly brilliant. I like a long pointy tip and this certainly ticks the box. The difference being how it has dropped a tad more than the previous profile. I'm casting my mind back to all the gyutos I have used where I wished that the tip would be ever so slightly lower, so imagine my delight when I saw this! I tried to take a couple of photos to demonstrate this.






All blades in the photo above are forged by Togashi-san and sharpened by Tosa-san. 

From left to right you have 270mm Blue#2 honyaki gyuto (this is an absolute beast from Carbon Knife Co, which deserves its own review, which I will do separately), TheJames White#2 honyaki gyuto, Syousin bluefrost Blue#1 honyaki gyuto.

As I said the ones that are comparable are the two on the right, the 270mm Blue#2 is just a separate category.

As you can see the new profile is a beast! It was too late for me to take any measurements last night. I will do so tonight and update this thread. Visually, the new knife is slightly thinner that the Blue#1 and both have a nice distal taper. The new knife is definitely taller than the Blue#1 and the Blue#1 was a beautifully tall gyuto.






They are both substantial knives, partly because of the handles, which for me, is a positive - I like the power that comes with it! Neither blade feels like it needs to be babied in any way shape or form. 

There is zero flex and it feels super confident. 

The choil is polished and actually shaped really nicely. The one thing that I did notice however was that the new gyutos spine was not rounded like the Blue#1 was. I have since confirmed with James that going forward, they will be rounded. As it is, its by no means uncomfortable - itll be even nicer when it has been rounded.

I have been fortunate enough to have been able to handle a good few gyutos and I have said time and again that the Syousin bluefrost was one top3 cutter for me - Ever. This I think the Shinko white flame could potentially be even better. 

I cant wait to start using it  James was kind enough to sharpen it for me on his uber stones, so its ready to go...

I think its also worth mentioning that I offered to send James my review/initial impressions before posting on KKF. His response was that the review is my personal opinion and that I should go ahead and post it without sending it to him  Thanks you James.

Ill have more details as soon as I get some time from family duties.


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## hmansion (Feb 20, 2018)

An amazing collection - wow! (Off topic - how did you pull off the first shot of the knife balanced on its tip?)


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## bkultra (Feb 20, 2018)

hmansion said:


> An amazing collection - wow! (Off topic - how did you pull off the first shot of the knife balanced on its tip?)



Photoshop or similar... Zoom in and look at the knife's outline.


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## khashy (Feb 20, 2018)

hmansion said:


> An amazing collection - wow! (Off topic - how did you pull off the first shot of the knife balanced on its tip?)



Thanks, they're great knives. 

The knife in the first photo is on a single stem magnetic stand. The blade sits on the magnet such that it covers the stem itself when you look at it head on.


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## bkultra (Feb 20, 2018)

khashy said:


> Thanks, they're great knives.
> 
> The knife in the first photo is on a single stem magnetic stand. The blade sits on the magnet such that it covers the stem itself when you look at it head on.



Why the blurry outline when zoomed in?


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## khashy (Feb 20, 2018)

bkultra said:


> Photoshop or similar... Zoom in and look at the knife's outline.



The knife's outline looks like that because of iPhone's post processing the image when in Portrait mode. 

The post processing 'enhances' the bokeh and in order to do this, it needs to identify the outline of the subject in focus, which is what you see happening there.


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## valgard (Feb 20, 2018)

Thanks Khashy, I loved the profile at first sight, now with blades for reference I love it even more!


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## khashy (Feb 20, 2018)

valgard said:


> Thanks Khashy, I loved the profile at first sight, now with blades for reference I love it even more!



Glad you found it useful. 

I'll get the dimensions for everything so that you can tie it back to the image and get a better feel for the profile and the knife in general


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## Jacob_x (Feb 20, 2018)

Yeah that's pretty damn fit. I reckon I'd really like that lower tip in usage.


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## LucasFur (Feb 20, 2018)

Buddy, unreal collection there. 
Any grid difference between the Syousin blue frost Blue#1 and "theJames" versions? 
do all three have the same coil/spine rounding/easing?


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## Chicagohawkie (Feb 20, 2018)

Does the 270 have a hamon? I know its less pronounced on blue steel Honyakis.


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## khashy (Feb 20, 2018)

LucasFur said:


> Buddy, unreal collection there.
> Any grid difference between the Syousin blue frost Blue#1 and "theJames" versions?
> do all three have the same coil/spine rounding/easing?



No grind difference that I can tell from the choil. Honestly Im splitting hairs but if I had to find a difference, Id say theJames is ever so slightly thinner ground. But this difference is so slight that it could just be these two particular knives. So for all intents and purposes, same excellent Tosa grind on both.

All three have the same choil rounding. The two blue ones are polished and the white has a frosty finish on the choil to go with the actual blade finish.

Like I mentioned in the text above, the spine of theJames will be rounded going forward but on my one is not as rounded as the blues


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## khashy (Feb 20, 2018)

Chicagohawkie said:


> Does the 270 have a hamon? I know its less pronounced on blue steel Honyakis.



This one is a perfect mirror finish and also because I have just received it and not had a chance to use it, still has the protective lacquer on it. Therefore the hamon is invisible.

However the hamon would be the same as the knife in the photo in this thread where you can see what the hamon looks like. Well partially.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/35765-Alloy-Banding

This thing is an unbelievable beast...


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## khashy (Feb 20, 2018)

Here are the measurements:

Cutting edge length: 245mm

Height at heel: 56mm

Spine at handle: 3.41mm

Spine at heel: 3.4mm

Spine half way along the blade: 2.6mm

Spine 5cm from tip: 2.2mm

Spine 2.5cm from tip: 1.63mm

Spine 1.5cm from tip: 1.17mm

I think the weight measurement is kind of irrelevant as it will be massively influenced by the handle choice


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## khashy (Feb 20, 2018)

Jacob_x said:


> Yeah that's pretty damn fit. I reckon I'd really like that lower tip in usage.



To put the tip into perspective, if I hold both the Syousin bluefrost and theJames with the flat spots entirely against the board, the tip of the bluefrost stands 23.7mm above the board where as theJames will be at 16.3mm above the board.

I guess it depends on each persons cutting style but for me that 7mm or so in conjunction with the extra height makes a world of difference. 

I think what Im saying is that I absolutely love this new profile.


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## Badgertooth (Feb 20, 2018)

Great write up khashy. This ticks so many boxes for me and Id be super keen to bear your 270 thoughts


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## khashy (Feb 20, 2018)

Badgertooth said:


> Great write up khashy. This ticks so many boxes for me and Id be super keen to bear your 270 thoughts



Thank you @Badgertooth - means a lot coming from you.

Im holding back writing about the 270 until I have used it in anger, so please bear with me as I try to find a bit of peace and quite to cut stuff now that my beloved inlaws are here...


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## panda (Feb 21, 2018)

how does it? could you post a cutting video? i want to see the sweet profile in action, however 56 is a tad too tall at 245 length in my opinion.


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## Panamapeet (Feb 21, 2018)

Thanks so much khash, interesting read! I will post something about the blue one ones it has arrived!


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## khashy (Feb 21, 2018)

Spipet said:


> Thanks so much khash, interesting read! I will post something about the blue one ones it has arrived!



Fantastic, looking forward to seeing photos also!


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## fatboylim (Feb 21, 2018)

Damn nice profile and I too am a fan of the dropped tip for a flatter profile. Man, I have got to get you to try the Denka, such a similar profile... but less lively on the boards compared to the honyaki!


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## Anton (Feb 21, 2018)

fatboylim said:


> Damn ice profile and I too am a fan of the dropped tip for a flatter profile. Man, I have got to get you to try the Denka, such a similar profile... but less lively on the boards compared to the honyaki!


 how do you define lively?


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## fatboylim (Feb 21, 2018)

Anton said:


> how do you define lively?


Just that thing that honyaki feels compared to a warikomi...


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## inzite (Feb 21, 2018)

Anton said:


> how do you define lively?



it is defined as TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF for those who have experienced it.


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## Anton (Feb 21, 2018)

inzite said:


> it is defined as TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF for those who have experienced it.



well, you and your TF love fest... clearly you are love struck.. I believe he was refering to the lack there of on the Denka's part.


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## fatboylim (Feb 21, 2018)

Anton said:


> well, you and your TF love fest... clearly you are love struck.. I believe he was refering to the lack there of on the Denka's part.


The Denka has a deathly thud compared to the honyaki. That said, it just performs! Lazer with heft if you get a western handled one!


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## Anton (Feb 21, 2018)

So the honyaki is Charles Mingus and the the Denka is Guns N Roses ?


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## fatboylim (Feb 21, 2018)

Anton said:


> So the honyaki is Charles Mingus and the the Denka is Guns N Roses ?


Yeah totally and a nice way of looking at it!


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## chinacats (Feb 21, 2018)

I believe monosteels in general feel so much better than clad knives...and yes, the tone is much better as well.


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## inzite (Feb 21, 2018)

Anton said:


> well, you and your TF love fest... clearly you are love struck.. I believe he was refering to the lack there of on the Denka's part.



it's a different kind of ring  the ring of death!


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## LucasFur (Feb 21, 2018)

I'd take these togodashi's over any denka made, ever. 
Even though I only own(ed) one of each.


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## Anton (Feb 21, 2018)

Knives are knives but I feel we cant compare a Denka with this knife, I mean sure we can, but price alone is quite different


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 21, 2018)

Really like that W2 profile & frosty finish, hamon shows well. Nice Honyaki


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## zitangy (Feb 22, 2018)

My interest is in a honyaki with a nice hamon on a 240 honyaki from Takayuyki and hence interest in this thread.

I suppose its a different Hamon polishing style...

I prefer a clear distinct clear line separate from the softer steel area. A darker shaded area would perhaps enhance a white hamon line.. perhaps make it "pop" ....further.

Does clear lacquer makes the Hamon line disappear on the Blue steel? If so removal of the lacquer will make it reappear?? I do know that on BLue steel a clear hamon line is also possible...

rgds Z

tks and rgds Z


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## geoff_nocon (Feb 22, 2018)

Quick question. Does the w#2 have the clouds or alloy banding?Pretty sure his blue 1&2 has it atleast the once that i saw. Im getting mine on monday so excited.


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## khashy (Feb 22, 2018)

zitangy said:


> My interest is in a honyaki with a nice hamon on a 240 honyaki from Takayuyki and hence interest in this thread.
> 
> I suppose its a different Hamon polishing style...
> 
> ...



It isn't the clear lacquer that makes the hamon invisible on the Blue2, it might help hide it but that's not the main reason. 

The reason you can't see the hamon is the absolute perfect mirror finish of the blade.


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## geoff_nocon (Feb 22, 2018)

I remeber james saying that blue1&2 has a high HT temperature range. Thats why its harder to bring out the homon on blue steels compared to whites. Dont know what it means exactly


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## fatboylim (Feb 22, 2018)

LucasFur said:


> I'd take these togodashi's over any denka made, ever.
> Even though I only own(ed) one of each.


I would take both, and in my chase a Ikeda/Ino western honyaki. They are not compatible!


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## Wdestate (Feb 22, 2018)

Great write up khash! Beautiful blade


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## pd7077 (Feb 22, 2018)

khashy said:


> It isn't the clear lacquer that makes the hamon invisible on the Blue2, it might help hide it but that's not the main reason.
> 
> The reason you can't see the hamon is the absolute perfect mirror finish of the blade.



The Togaashi B#2 that khashy referenced before was mine. The hamon is there, and even with the mirror polish you can see it at certain angles. After using it for a few weeks, I decided to clean her up so that I could see what the hamon looked like. It was simple enough to do with some fingerstones, but in the end I took her back to a full mirror finish.


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## khashy (Feb 22, 2018)

Here is the choil shot


 https://instagram.com/p/BfgFWgBnYXJ/


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## khashy (Feb 22, 2018)

Wdestate said:


> Great write up khash! Beautiful blade



Thank you, the proper write up will be when I actually get a chance to use it...


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## chinacats (Feb 22, 2018)

That's a sexy choil shot.


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## khashy (Feb 22, 2018)

chinacats said:


> That's a sexy choil shot.



Thanks CC. It actually takes me a good while before I can manage to get the very tip in focus.

Great grind on these


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## HalfBloodHobbit (Jul 19, 2018)

LucasFur said:


> I'd take these togodashi's over any denka made, ever.
> Even though I only own(ed) one of each.


Tbh I'd take my Comet over my Denka any day since I haven't thinned it yet, god tier heat treat on Aogami Super but the grind is just clumsy.


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## HalfBloodHobbit (Jul 19, 2018)

khashy said:


> I thought it might be a good idea to shine some light on the new custom profile honyaki gyutos that Knives and Stones have made available from the collaboration with Sakai Takayuki.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hoooooly **** I'm excited, I ordered the Blue #1 with no handle is currently at Terrafern getting an insane western handle - copper carbon fiber inlaid with dinosaur gembone


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## panda (Jul 19, 2018)

Makers should offer non polished honyaki at a lower cost for those that don't give a flying f about hamon.


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## HalfBloodHobbit (Jul 19, 2018)

panda said:


> Makers should offer non polished honyaki at a lower cost for those that don't give a flying f about hamon.



But it's soooooo pretty, why waste the time and extra cost with a differential temper and not just buy something like a Tanaka Blue #1 if you're looking purely for performance and not aesthetics as well?


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## Anton (Jul 19, 2018)

@panda - Send me your knives and I’ll bring them down to no-bling 400 grit polish
Gangsta


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## panda (Jul 19, 2018)

My Marko already looks like sh1te, shows you how much I care about finish.

Those non noob tanakas do look really nice, I just don't like wide bevel otherwise I'd have kept my hinoura and also have a heiji gyuto. I reground my heiji petty, it looks like a disaster lol but sure as hell performs like a son of a gun


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## Corradobrit1 (Jul 19, 2018)

HalfBloodHobbit said:


> Tbh I'd take my Comet over my Denka


Burn the heretic.......TF TF TF


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