# new triple A french steel, hrc 59-60



## 3200+++ (Jun 18, 2013)

hello, i found on the website of one of my favourites edc maker a line of pro tools, high priced and with a "new type of steel" "enriched in nitrogen" which promesses ease of sharpening and strong rust resistance (stainless steel officially) 

i wondered if anyone had one of these in hand and could give a little review.

here's the link

http://www.couteau.com/couteau-de-cuisine.html


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## EdipisReks (Jun 18, 2013)

They looked great until I saw the price. I would never pay more than $100 for a knife with a bolster.


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## wsfarrell (Jun 19, 2013)

If I'm reading right, the ironwood paring knife sells for 265 pounds, or $414. Sacre bleu!


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## 3200+++ (Jun 19, 2013)

yes, i know :s thats why i wondered if it could be somehow worth it. 

this maker is anyways pretty expensive, EDC's are around 220 in shops, and the F&F is very nice on the ones i've seen and my t45 (the cheapest one, 100$) performs great.

wait and see i guess.


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## JKerr (Jun 19, 2013)

If I won the lottery this would be a great impulse buy, but as it stands, kinda hard to justify. Don't get me wrong, would love to try one and they look great; simple and elegant. But I'd hate to grind off a bolster on a $900+ knife made of a stainless (reasonably hard) steel I know nothing about. They look to have a little more belly than your standard french pattern too, or maybe that's just me.

Still, if someone buys one I'd be keen to see a review


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## Marko Tsourkan (Jun 19, 2013)

I like the forks. Would be great to find out where they get their blanks from.

Finish on the blades is far from being called polished.


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## Benuser (Jun 19, 2013)

JKerr said:


> They look to have a little more belly than your standard french pattern too, or maybe that's just me.


It's not just you. The tip is much higher than common with French blades. They are assembled and finished in Thiers according to the text, so, a contrario, produced elsewhere, not necessarily in France, as normally clearly stated. In combination with some mystery steel with a fantasy denomination, verbuous text and excessive price setting, there is some odour of swindle coming of.


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## Marko Tsourkan (Jun 19, 2013)

They looked influenced by Kramer knives. Interesting.


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## mzer (Jun 19, 2013)

I have their steak knives in olive wood. Very nice stuff. No idea how the kitchen knives are, though. Never seen them.


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## mr drinky (Jun 19, 2013)

I bought a set of Forge de Laguiole knives and they claimed some secret T12 steel with higher carbon. It was likely just a slightly modified 440 steel. So they basically changed enough of the steel to make it proprietary, then claim amazing things. I wouldn't suspect that the steel used in the knives you posted is anything so special that it be better performing. 

With that said, it is too bad that most of the European prices have VAT included, so there is around 20% more on the list price. It would be cool if places that shipped to the US would be able to subtract that tax out. It won't make them totally reasonable, but at least more reasonable. 

k.


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## Jim (Jun 19, 2013)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> I like the forks. Would be great to find out where they get their blanks from.
> 
> Finish on the blades is far from being called polished.



Love the forks!


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## 3200+++ (Jun 20, 2013)

i have to clarify one thing:

laguiole has never been trademarked by original makers, thats why every industrial s**t can be called laguiole. 
i own a 250$ sommelier in olive wood had made by "laguiole en aubrac" (precise maker) which is amazing. yesterday i saw laguiole kitchen set with nice looking red handles in supermarkets, for about 10$ a knife no doubt they come from different worlds.

now, perceval is a serious maker in my opinion. had always seen, owned and held very great pochet knives from them. 
their work might no be flawless, but i wouldn't think they lie. the steel is called triple A because it is made by a nearby artisnal steel maker, and it means acier audacieux d'auvergne. they claimed it took 3 years to achieve a very fine grain steel, and collaborated with the steel maker and independant steel specialist to obtain it. 

promo video of making
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=470479993004406&set=vb.454849951234077&type=2&theater

my toughts: overpriced yes, a piece of crap, no, i don't believe it.


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## Benuser (Jun 20, 2013)

I would expect a serious maker to mention the steel composition either by standard code or by actual composition, and avoid fantasy names.


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## 3200+++ (Jun 20, 2013)

me too, but in a country like france, don't let the unesco patrimony cooking thing fool anyone, 99.9% of people eat bad food and don't have a clue about knives. mybe perceval are trying to protect their discovery...

before actually trying the knife, we don't know... just saying this maker is far from the worse usually.


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## Benuser (Jun 20, 2013)

In France it's perfectly normal to indicate steel composition. See how K-Sabatier, Opinel and others deal with this.
If it were such a great finding, it would get protection under intellectual property law.


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## TB_London (Jun 20, 2013)

Wonder if it's similar to nitrobe 77 aka PUD177.0


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## Justin0505 (Jun 20, 2013)

So they're drop forged by machine, hollow ground... 99% of the blade mfg process looks no more special than any other factory knife. Looks like they spend way more time polishing the handles (which do look nice) than doing anything else.

The 280mm slicer and 90mm paring knives do look nice though:
View attachment 16203

View attachment 16204


However, $610 for the slicer and $345 for the lil' guy (for the "plain" g10 handle version of each) is unjustifiable when you think of what that would get you in high-end j-blade or even custom work from NA or UK. Now, if you exclude VAT, that brings them down to $488 and $276 which is closer to more normally over-priced knives from shun and henk/miyabi, but still much more and, IMO, still off by over $100.


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## gic (Jun 20, 2013)

French prices are often crazy. For example, it's almost always better to by Le Creuset or any other high end french stuff in the US by a significant margin then in France even if you get the VAT refunded.


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## mzer (Jun 20, 2013)

gic said:


> French prices are often crazy. For example, it's almost always better to by Le Creuset or any other high end french stuff in the US by a significant margin then in France even if you get the VAT refunded.



On the other hand, it is cheaper to buy copper pots at Dehillerin and have them shipped to the states than to buy them here. Weird.


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## 3200+++ (Jun 24, 2013)

only once the VAT has been deducted  did you know the same fench car "french assembled" is cheaper with more furniture in every foreign country? thats why we'll soon be in the same economical state of greece... lucky we'we developped some drones too ! (ok, horrible joke)  

if members around here wish something in these shops or a price check (dehillerin, mora, every shop in this area (eglise st eustache in paris)) i travel there once week and can occasionnaly have a look.


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## JKerr (Jul 9, 2013)

Sorry to drag this thread up again, but after a little trolling through Perceval and Triple A forges facebook pages, it looks like the steel is X40CrMoVN16-2, which zknives relates to X15:
http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=X40CrMoVN16-2, x15&ni=2718,&hrn=1&gm=0

Perhaps I'm wrong seeing as I don't speak French, but their seemed to be a few references regarding this steel and the kitchen knives. Anyone got any experience with said steel?

Cheers
Josh


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 10, 2013)

3200+++ said:


> me too, but in a country like france, don't let the unesco patrimony cooking thing fool anyone, 99.9% of people eat bad food and don't have a clue about knives. mybe perceval are trying to protect their discovery...
> 
> before actually trying the knife, we don't know... just saying this maker is far from the worse usually.



I am a little surprized,but I guess it is the times we live in. I thought France might be a little better. Cooks as a rule take better care of their knives,they have to it's the job.99.9% of homemakers are clueless about knives & sharpening.People work more to pay the bills & eat cheap take out instead of preparing meals.Even the grocery stores here do a big buss. preparing take out plates,some have hot food choices in heated pans. Honolulu Times even has a sushi maker.Lots of food choices for people comming home fr. work.

My last holdout is Japan,I learned sharpening fr. Japanese Nationals. They make such great knives. The Culinary school here has quite a few students fr. Japan.I have noticed that most of these not only have better knives,but also sharpening knowledge.The Local kids buy these cheap Mecer kits sold by the school.Bottom of the line Mercers wt. crap steel.The Locals have a desire to learn,some have bought a better knife & are on their way with freehand skills.

I still think that Asians use better knives and have more sharpening skills than Americans & Europeans.I could be wrong maybe they all eat takeout now & have lost knife knowledge.


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## franzb69 (Jul 10, 2013)

> I could be wrong maybe they all eat takeout now & have lost knife knowledge.



in a mostly westernized country like mine, that is very true. which is sad.


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## 3200+++ (Jul 11, 2013)

keithsaltydog said:


> I am a little surprized,but I guess it is the times we live in. I thought France might be a little better. Cooks as a rule take better care of their knives,they have to it's the job.99.9% of homemakers are clueless about knives & sharpening.People work more to pay the bills & eat cheap take out instead of preparing meals.Even the grocery stores here do a big buss. preparing take out plates,some have hot food choices in heated pans. Honolulu Times even has a sushi maker.Lots of food choices for people comming home fr. work.
> 
> My last holdout is Japan,I learned sharpening fr. Japanese Nationals. They make such great knives. The Culinary school here has quite a few students fr. Japan.I have noticed that most of these not only have better knives,but also sharpening knowledge.The Local kids buy these cheap Mecer kits sold by the school.Bottom of the line Mercers wt. crap steel.The Locals have a desire to learn,some have bought a better knife & are on their way with freehand skills.
> 
> I still think that Asians use better knives and have more sharpening skills than Americans & Europeans.I could be wrong maybe they all eat takeout now & have lost knife knowledge.



this makes sense! you know, last time i saw a chef i know (i went to have a coffee with the bistro restaurant owner) i told him i ordered a 250 120mm knife and he looked at me like if i was stupid... money rules everywhere nowdays, and people think wrong i think. i's way more costly to buy cheap things, as you have to replace them all the time (besides the lack of efficiency)

it can be applied to tools too, facom french tools used to be a reference in quality, now they are made in china, soft and crappy and still sold premium price. i compared 2 phillips screw drivers: one recent facom and a very old yellow and black stanley. the facom is dead rounded and the stanley is like new! 
and i prefer not to talk about sashimi. sushi restaurants chains are killing raw fish like grill chains have killed meat and so on. it's called "le nivellement par le bas" imo which means "making the reference low in people mind so crap becomes acceptable. once it's done they raise the price and sell crap at high prices 

the more i understand economics the more i hate this science. 

happy and reassured to find folks here who have a clue and share a bit tho!


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## franzb69 (Jul 11, 2013)

capitalism is faulty. specially with planned obsolescence going on.

=D


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## Benuser (Jul 11, 2013)

franzb69 said:


> capitalism is faulty. specially with planned obsolescence going on.
> 
> =D


planned obsolescense in France???


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## Seb (Jul 12, 2013)

3200+++ said:


> ... it's called "le nivellement par le bas" imo which means "making the reference low in people mind so crap becomes acceptable. once it's done they raise the price and sell crap at high prices
> 
> the more i understand economics the more i hate this science.
> 
> happy and reassured to find folks here who have a clue and share a bit tho!



Thank you for sharing this. To witness this process at its furthest extreme to date, come and see what passes for chocolate, bread and beer in Australia. Not to mention what happens to ethnic restaurants who want to survive!


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## 3200+++ (Jul 12, 2013)

planned obsolescence everywhere! but its only the outer part of the iceberg. 

there was a very good french/german film on this (regarding electronics) where they showed how tv makers (lg, samsung) were designing the motherboards so the heatsinks were the closest possible to low end capacitors to reduce lifetime (capacitors can take more and more heat for more and more time as you go higher end) and make sure your $700 tv would be replaced in a few years time...

france is considered one of the last countries where capitalism doesn't rule, but the truth is like everywhere else 10% of pop own 60% of the wealth! and don't make good use of it. 

unfortunately, class struggle is over. Capitalism has won. at least the wrong side of it.

but its a little off topic


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## franzb69 (Jul 12, 2013)

> planned obsolescence everywhere! but its only the outer part of the iceberg.



yes everywhere. =D


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 12, 2013)

I have a Matag washer I bought in 1984.Replaced the belts a couple times, also replaced the water pump & a rubber hose.When the guy fixed the pump & replaced the hose I asked him if the new hose was as good as the old one,he said no,they don't provide the high quality hoses anymore.Also he said my belts have even wear so the Trans is in good shape the washer should last along time more.

He told me the new Matags do not last as long and are more expensive to fix.

I have a few carbon knives over 100 yrs. old of high quality.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jan 17, 2014)

Welcome to KKF! Nice to see more and more makers joining this forum.

While it's awesome to see a list of celebrity chefs using your knives, it would be WAY more persuasive if you just make a passaround and let old KKF users test your knives and gave reviews


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## Yamabushi (Jan 17, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> it would be WAY more persuasive if you just make a passaround and let old KKF users test your knives and gave reviews



There is a great idea if I have ever heard one!!


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## ChuckTheButcher (Jan 17, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> They looked great until I saw the price. I would never pay more than $100 for a knife with a bolster.



There are a lot of awesome knives with bolsters.


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## Ruso (Jan 17, 2014)

Was the post of alleged knife maker deleted?


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## EdipisReks (Jan 17, 2014)

ChuckTheButcher said:


> There are a lot of awesome knives with bolsters.



Bolsters do a great job of removing awesome, in my opinion.


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## knyfeknerd (Jan 17, 2014)

Ruso said:


> Was the post of alleged knife maker deleted?


Yes, against the rules.


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## Lefty (Jan 17, 2014)

Too bad, because it was a great post....


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## Von blewitt (Jan 17, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> Bolsters do a great job of removing awesome, in my opinion.



Are you referring to the "finger guard" or all bolsters? Cause I'm with Chuck on this....


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## EdipisReks (Jan 17, 2014)

Von blewitt said:


> Are you referring to the "finger guard" or all bolsters? Cause I'm with Chuck on this....



The fingerguard things. I don't really consider a metal ferrule at the end of the scales to be a bolster, as it doesn't really bolster anything. Anything that interferes with sharpening or getting the whole damn edge on the board is a problem, in my opinion.


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## Yamabushi (Jan 17, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> The fingerguard things. I don't really consider a metal ferrule at the end of the scales to be a bolster, as it doesn't really bolster anything. Anything that interferes with sharpening or getting the whole damn edge on the board is a problem, in my opinion.


lus1:


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## Von blewitt (Jan 17, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> The fingerguard things. I don't really consider a metal ferrule at the end of the scales to be a bolster, as it doesn't really bolster anything. Anything that interferes with sharpening or getting the whole damn edge on the board is a problem, in my opinion.



Yeah I agree totally about the finger guard, but when I'm talking bolsters I mean like integrals on Bill Burke, Rader, and Shigefusa Yo's.


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## ChuckTheButcher (Jan 17, 2014)

Yeah. Finger guards suck. I guess that what they're called when the bolster go's to the heel like some wustofs. Only good for opening cans. But +1 on burke's, Raders's, ect. There are plenty of bolster that I don't think effect sharpening. Although I do prefer wa handles.


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## EdipisReks (Jan 18, 2014)

Von blewitt said:


> Yeah I agree totally about the finger guard, but when I'm talking bolsters I mean like integrals on Bill Burke, Rader, and Shigefusa Yo's.



I don't really consider those bolsters, and they certainly aren't a problem.


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## Canadian (Jan 18, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> I don't really consider those bolsters, and they certainly aren't a problem.



Well technically they are bolsters. 

And regarding bolsters/"finger guard" that run the height of the knife, if you learn how to deal with them in sharpening they're not as big a pain as you lead on.


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## EdipisReks (Jan 18, 2014)

Canadian said:


> Well technically they are bolsters.
> 
> And regarding bolsters/"finger guard" that run the height of the knife, if you learn how to deal with them in sharpening they're not as big a pain as you lead on.



I know exactly how to deal with them, and they are still a pain.


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## ChuckTheButcher (Jan 18, 2014)

I have to agree. I don't like them. I couldn't imagine buying a knife with a finger guard. I don't really see the purpose.


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