# A Study In Ironwood for Kitchen Knife Handles



## Dave Martell

Over the years I've used a lot of AZ Ironwood for knife handles, it's among my favorite choices. I like that it's hard to grind since it allows me time to make mistakes and fix them and it grinds nearly compatible with bolsters, tangs, and pins to allow me to get a flush fit without undercutting. Then there's the look - wow who can't appreciate the color contrasts, dark lines, and metallic shimmer? I love it!

What I don't love so much is how it doesn't finish as nice as I'd like. It's a tight grained, dense, & oily wood that isn't stabilized, it's natural. Most knifemakers simply sand, buff, and wax and call it good. That's what I did as well but then I started to wonder about how it holds up in the kitchen. Most "custom" knifemaker's knives go from maker to customer and then to the safe - that's it's life. For a kitchen knifemaker we have to expect that our knives will be used, get messed up with oils/grime/acids, and then washed with detergents and maybe even scrubbed with scouring pads. How can we expect a wax coating to hold up and protect the wood in this type of an environment? Ironwood turns dark over time from UV exposure, hand oils, and gets washed out from dish detergents - we need to protect against these problems.

Over time I've had mixed results in finishing ironwood and have found a few things to be true when working this stuff. First is that it should not be over-buffed or buffed hard. In fact, if buffers are used it should be done using a soft buff, gently, and quick because the grain can get easily smeared. I stopped buffing ironwood, preferring to go to higher grit sandpaper instead. Yes some shine is sacrificed by not buffing but I can keep the grain appearance tight. I've also taken on the task of trying to figure out how (if at all) it's possible to seal ironwood using drying oils and this task has turned into a long term experiment since I've had little to no success. 

As I mentioned before, ironwood is very dense, tight grained, and oily - it doesn't want to allow anything into or below it's surface. When an oil is applied it ends up sitting on the surface and drying/curing even if it's designed to soak in as many are. For most other woods (even stabilized woods) it's relatively easy to get a smooth build up of oil on the surface by first soaking the wood and then building up the layers but with ironwood (with a surface that doesn't allow penetration) all we get is a build up and this is weak since it's not holding onto anything - essentially the surface build up has got no roots under the surface like we can get with other woods. In every test I've done (with oiling ironwood) I've always been able to scrub away the oil coating using dish detergent. It's a major bummer when this happens after days of rubbing in the coats of oil.

To mention the test/experiments some....what I'm doing is using every drying type oil that I can get my hands on, mixing concoctions, etc. I've been doing this for a couple of years now and only in the last year or so have I seen results that are promising yet not so consistent. I have figured out a few mixtures/recipes that work for most common woods yet ironwood remains troublesome.....until recently. 

The knife shown in the pictures below was first finished using the traditional method of buffing & waxing, then it was used and became ugly over time. The owner actually tried waxing per my instructions and then went so far as applying tung oil but it still kept getting uglier. I refinished this handle a few days ago and it's now the first that's been sealed using a new mixture of oils that actually block UV light, waterproof, keeps oily dirt out, and repels acids....all while allowing the look and feel of the wood to come through. The loss of color contrast is the only negative that I can see but maybe over time I can improve on this through tweaking. 

I'm going to be shipping the knife back to the customer to have him use it as normal and we'll see where this experiment takes us. I'm hopeful but hey you never know. I'll be sure to post the results when that time comes. I just wanted to share with you guys now what I've been up to. Please feel free to comment, I'd love to hear what you think about the differences between finishes and your opinions on the topic of using ironwood in the kitchen.


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## Dave Martell

BTW, to seal this handle took 11 coats! Talk about a time consumer.


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## Dave Martell

Here's another picture.....


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## aboynamedsuita

I think they both look great in the third pic. It's crazy how I was just admiring the Burl Source ironwood and contemplating a western rehandle (it's a sign!)


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## Anton

Good stuff Dave. Thanks for taking the time for this


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## ecchef

I like the darker oil finish. Seems to have more depth in these photos.
Dave, have you tried oil impregnation under vacuum?


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## EdipisReks

I'd be happy to it, in any of the phases.


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## Reede

I guess I'm the odd one here, but I've always wondered why people like desert ironwood so much. To me it is a very plain looking wood. The only thing I have with it is my Nick Wheeler paring knife, and I got it on Bladeforums ready made. I'd have picked something else if I would have had the choice.


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## icanhaschzbrgr

Reede said:


> I guess I'm the odd one here, but I've always wondered why people like desert ironwood so much.


Different strokes for different folks. I've worked with many different fancy wood, but still like ironwood for it looks. And in my eyes it only looks better over time. Just like a knife takes patina, ironwood darkens overtime and adds some value to the whole thing. But again, we all love different things, so no strict rules.


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## Anton

Reede said:


> I guess I'm the odd one here, but I've always wondered why people like desert ironwood so much. To me it is a very plain looking wood. The only thing I have with it is my Nick Wheeler paring knife, and I got it on Bladeforums ready made. I'd have picked something else if I would have had the choice.



If done properly, Ironwood can look awesome


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## apicius9

Good Info, Dave. I'm looking forward to seeing the long-term outcomes... I never liked the idea to only wax and buff, so I applied finish regardless of the wood's stubbornness, but I usually leave it at 4-6 layers, depending on the piece. I think of that as a compromise between protecting it and preserving the 'wood feel' that the untreated wood has more than stabilized ones. But you are probably on the safer side to preserve the looks with the more elaborate finishing procedures.

Stefan


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## Seth

I vaguely remember from my woodworking days the idea of teasing out the oil from some woods I think with a couple of treatments with acetone in order to get finishes to soak and adhere. I will try to find the reference.


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## Dave Martell

ecchef said:


> Dave, have you tried oil impregnation under vacuum?




That's an interesting idea.


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## Dave Martell

Seth said:


> I vaguely remember from my woodworking days the idea of teasing out the oil from some woods I think with a couple of treatments with acetone in order to get finishes to soak and adhere. I will try to find the reference.




I've wiped down ironwood with both alcohol and acetone until the oil stops coming off onto the rag but it hasn't seemed to make a difference. Doing what you're talking about is worth the try though, the next one I do I'll acetone it in steps/layers until I'm 100% confident that there's nothing left on or below the surface. Thanks!


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## Matus

One of my knives has a very nice ironwood handle (I do not know how it was finished) with a lovely figure, but after few months the contrast between the light and dark parts got much weaker as the lighter parts darkened. I have use board butter on the handle. Is this behaviour as expected? thanks.


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## Dave Martell

Matus said:


> One of my knives has a very nice ironwood handle (I do not know how it was finished) with a lovely figure, but after few months the contrast between the light and dark parts got much weaker as the lighter parts darkened. I have use board butter on the handle. Is this behaviour as expected? thanks.




Yes this seems pretty normal and it's what I'm working to prevent from happening.


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## Burl Source

Something I have noticed is ironwood that has been power buffed will darken about 10x faster than hand buffing with a soft cloth.


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## Dave Martell

Burl Source said:


> Something I have noticed is ironwood that has been power buffed will darken about 10x faster than hand buffing with a soft cloth.




Now that's interesting. I'll keep it in mind. Thanks Mark


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## zitangy

Yr post just reminded me of a product ( surfapore W(series) http://nanophos.com/eng/product/surfapore/surfapore-r-8-detail))) that I picked up during a trade show abt 6 months ago. Didnt persue the matter further.

Hv fun..

rgds D


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## Dave Martell

zitangy said:


> Yr post just reminded me of a product ( surfapore W(series) http://nanophos.com/eng/product/surfapore/surfapore-r-8-detail))) that I picked up during a trade show abt 6 months ago. Didnt persue the matter further.
> 
> Hv fun..
> 
> rgds D




I like the sound of that stuff, I'll be Googling it for sales sources. Thanks David


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## Dave Martell

So I've still been working on this issue, _2 yrs later_, yet finally making progress with something positive to report.

As we've known the issue(s) with ironwood is turning dark and ugly through oxidation, UV, and detergent exposure. The goal is to minimize the contact that the wood will have to those things through sealing the surface while retaining the nice color/tone of the ironwood during the process. 

Most oils darken & cloud/obscure wood and also don't want to adhere to such an oily/dense species as ironwood. I've found that oiling to seal this wood type just doesn't work. The wood doesn't want to accept in the oil nor will even the thickest coating remain in use. 

What I have discovered is that varnish will do just the opposite - it'll soak in, adhere, and stay put through normal use. The keys are using the correct varnish and thinning it enough to allow it to get into the wood and build up from within. You simply can't coat ironwood and expect the finish to last. I suggest using a thin spar varnish. This type of varnish is meant to live in the elements, is very tough, and is UV resistant. Thin the varnish down to a water consistency and let it soak in and do however many coats needed until the varnish appears to build up onto the surface. Don't be tempted to thicken it, this is a long process that'll take a week to get correct, just be patient.

This method can also be applied to cocobolo. This is actually where I learned the most about how to seal ironwood as cocobolo is even tougher to get right since nothing builds on this wood easily. 



The handle below shows my most recent results in ironwood. Here you can't see (in the pictures) the sheen very well but it's there and you can obviously see that the color and character of the wood shows clearly. I'm encouraged by these results....


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## dough

That is pretty


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## milkbaby

Nice... Looking forward to your update in two years!


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## Anton

I owe you for this one


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## daddy yo yo

Dave, I herewith apply for testing this handle over the next two years for you. You simply have to add a blade (preferably gyuto) and send it to me. I am amazed by the generousness of my offer! irate1:


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## zetieum

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!


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## toddnmd

Dave, those handles are looking very nice! Would love to see if the color stays over time.


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## Dave Martell

I've made some more improvements in how I finish ironwood. 

What I've come up with is that oily woods reject oil finishes yet varnishes will adhere if applied SUPER EXTRA thin for the first 3-4 coats. I use this knowledge and apply these first coats to form a base that fills the grain and begins to build on the surface. 

I've played with many varnishes to get just the right one and as a side bonus it contains a UV blocker which serves to retard oxidation from UV light so as to help ironwood retain it's fresh appearance. 

After the 3-4 coat varnish base is formed I layer on an oil/varnish mix to further seal and bring out the wood's color and characteristics generally bringing the number of coats I apply to 10-12 total. 

Will this hold up forever? I doubt it but it's getting better and better. 

See these for the last two I've done....


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## Nemo

Wow. They are nice.


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## Dave Martell

Nemo said:


> Wow. They are nice.




Thanks Phil


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## dmccurtis

Looking good! I'd recommend trying shellac for your first few sealing coats. Evaporative finishes like shellac and lacquer typically adhere better to extractive-rich woods than reactive finishes like varnish. The advantage of using shellac for your sealing coat is dry time  minutes at the longest. Also, because shellac is compatible with nearly all finishes, after a couple of thin coats you will be able to build a film with whatever finish you like. You could in fact build a finish using only shellac (I often do), but as it contains no UV inhibitors, you may want to continue using spar varnish for your top coat on exotics like ironwood and cocobolo.


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## Dave Martell

dmccurtis said:


> Looking good! I'd recommend trying shellac for your first few sealing coats. Evaporative finishes like shellac and lacquer typically adhere better to extractive-rich woods than reactive finishes like varnish. The advantage of using shellac for your sealing coat is dry time  minutes at the longest. Also, because shellac is compatible with nearly all finishes, after a couple of thin coats you will be able to build a film with whatever finish you like. You could in fact build a finish using only shellac (I often do), but as it contains no UV inhibitors, you may want to continue using spar varnish for your top coat on exotics like ironwood and cocobolo.




I actually have tried shellac several times but for some reason I can't get along with the stuff. It drives me insane, I must be doing something wrong. But I agree with you that it's well suited for this application.


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## dmccurtis

What kind of issues did you have? And were you using waxy or dewaxed? Waxy shellac could have issues with adhesion to oily woods.


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## Dave Martell

dmccurtis said:


> What kind of issues did you have? And were you using waxy or dewaxed? Waxy shellac could have issues with adhesion to oily woods.



I've only tried the Bullseye brand de-waxed version. I've tried it so much that I used 2 pint cans. 

I did discover somewhere along the way that you couldn't thin shellac with just anything, you specifically needed to use denatured alcohol but this made no difference to what I was experiencing. :dontknow:

My problems were that it dried almost instantly and/or left streaks. I figured that I'd at least be able to use it to seal and fill through wet sanding but that was like trying to wet sand with CA glue. :bashhead:

I also tried to mix it with pure tung oil and some other stuff (can't recall the exact oils) and all this seemed to do was to give me an extra 10 seconds before I was glued to the handle. I must be doing something wrong.


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## Matus

For what its worth my limited experience with Shellac was somewhat similar - I could not get an even finish because of the super fast drying.


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## Dave Martell

Matus said:


> For what its worth my limited experience with Shellac was somewhat similar - I could not get an even finish because of the super fast drying.




:thankyou: I feel a little better about myself


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## dmccurtis

Interesting to hear about your challenges with shellac (and finishing in general). I teach woodworking, so I'm always curious to hear about peoples' experiences with it. Helps me to see where people are struggling.

Shellac dry time can be modified by adjusting the pound cut (lighter cuts will self level and dry faster), and by the type of solvent. Ethanol (denatured alcohol) dries slower than methanol (methylated spirits or methyl hydrate). Bullseye dewaxed shellac is around a two pound cut  I would typically thin that by half for seal coats. It should go on thin enough that runs are virtually non-existent. Also, padding it on with cloth, rather than brushing it, will give more even results. 

Anyway, the handles are looking great! It seems like you found a finishing routine that works for your work, and that's what we're all trying to do. Keep it up!


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## Dave Martell

dmccurtis said:


> Interesting to hear about your challenges with shellac (and finishing in general). I teach woodworking, so I'm always curious to hear about peoples' experiences with it. Helps me to see where people are struggling.
> 
> Shellac dry time can be modified by adjusting the pound cut (lighter cuts will self level and dry faster), and by the type of solvent. Ethanol (denatured alcohol) dries slower than methanol (methylated spirits or methyl hydrate). Bullseye dewaxed shellac is around a two pound cut  I would typically thin that by half for seal coats. It should go on thin enough that runs are virtually non-existent. Also, padding it on with cloth, rather than brushing it, will give more even results.
> 
> Anyway, the handles are looking great! It seems like you found a finishing routine that works for your work, and that's what we're all trying to do. Keep it up!




Thanks for the tips DMC, I appreciate all the help I can get.


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## Jlc88

This was a good read - thanks Martell. Lets see how mine turns out :wink:


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## tedg

The different pound cuts and different alcohols are definitely worth noting. But the application method is the most important thing. I've used shellac to finish large pcs of furniture(table tops) and other items, all applied by hand. I'm sure most of you have heard of French polishing. Use a soft lint free cloth, sort of bunch it up to make a ball out of it , then twist it to keep it together, it should look like a there's golf ball inside there, this is called the rubber. Have a squirt bottle of shellac and one of walnut oil. The ball is saturated with shellac and a few drops of oil are added. Oil slows down the drying, adds strength to the shellac, and helps the rubber from sticking. One coat a day, minimum 5 days, sand with 600 between coats. You'll know when its finished.
Unless the knife is just for looking at, I wouldn't French polish. A wet glass set on a French polish finish WILL leave a white ring every time. Its also marked by alcohol, scratches easily and is just a very soft finish.


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## inferno

Good info in this thread.

I have also noticed some woods just dont soak up oil. Or at least soak up very little. Olive is one and ziricote another that I've tried recently.
I use pure tung oil only. I try to mix it with 50% acetone or white spirit (a type of naphta) the first 3-4 coats. 

But i have a feeling one can go more hardcore than that. basically different solvents dissolve different things. They have different polarity/dielectric constant and different dipole moment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvent#Physical_properties

I guess one could leach out the oils of the top layer of the wood before oiling it. I tried to leach oils with ethanol before gluing stuff and it seems to work somewhat. But I also have european brake cleaner (non chlorinated) and the wood looks very "dry" after brake clean.. 

Other solvents that one can find quite easily (here at least) seems to be "chemically pure gasoline" (I think this is actually heptane or hexane). The solvent you light barbecues with (think its similar to white spirit but much much cheaper). And diethyl ether (found in engine starter gas). Isopropyl alcohol. Some solvents seems to be kinda useless for oils like motor oils and greases. These will probably be almost useless for getting oil out of wood too i think.

I have found nothing as effective for removing grease/oil as brake clean with starting gas as the second best (but it evaporates _extremely_ fast).

These are not health products... wear carbon filter mask.

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There is one thing I have not tried on handles but on a lot of other wood stuff. 1 component clear polyurethane floor paint/finish.
Its cheap and it thins extremely well with acetone and white spirit. I'd guess the UV-stability will be very good. This is often used to paint boats here so its very durable. 

its only nemesis seems to be leaving acetone puddles on it. it will remove it (it bubbles/flakes up) within about 2 -3 minutes. other than that its the perfect no maintainence finish for wood imo.

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I'm thinking: leaching out oils first with solvent of right polarity then maybe thinned polyurethane floor paint would be good for oily woods? As a durable solution.


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## Dave Martell

Here's the most recent ironwood handle finished with 12 coats of wiping varnish mix. I'm starting to get the hang of this.


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## WildBoar

Nice, Dave!


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## Dave Martell

Thanks David


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## niwaki-boy

The spacer really compliments everything about this! Understated and subtly in your face at the same time... like, really like &#128536;
And nice spa work! Wish that could work for humans cause Id be heading your way for a couple of days &#128540;


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## Dave Martell

niwaki-boy said:


> The spacer really compliments everything about this! Understated and subtly in your face at the same time... like, really like &#63000;
> And nice spa work! Wish that could work for humans cause Id be heading your way for a couple of days &#63004;




I could use some spa work myself. 

Thanks for the kind words.


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## Anton

@Dave Martell , or owners of these newly finished ironwood handles - can you comment on how Dave's treatment is holding up? Just curious if Dave finally nailed getting Ironwood done properly. Any chance for pics after some use


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## Dave Martell

I'd like to hear some feedback as well. 


And FWIW, I'm still screwing with this, and I feel that it's still improving. The key seems to be really thin multiple layers of varnish. Currently 12 coats seems to be just about right to me.


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## Anton

let's see if anyone has had a chance with these and can provide any after feedback after some use - 
@Dave Martell , or owners of these newly finished ironwood handles - can you comment on how Dave's treatment is holding up? Just curious if Dave finally nailed getting Ironwood done properly. Any chance for pics after some use?


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## Jlc88

Does anyone know of any neutral waxes that are also protect from UV? Trying to keep mind from darkening.


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## Dave Martell

Jlc88 said:


> Does anyone know of any neutral waxes that are also protect from UV? Trying to keep mind from darkening.



A lot car and boat waxes state that they protect against UV.


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## Jlc88

Good suggestion! Searching now.


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## Anton

Anyone have pictures of Dave's same handles on this thread with some use? Still curious how are these doing?


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## Bill13

I have a Forgecraft knife Dave did a ironwood handle on a couple of years ago. It gets a fair amount of use and is left out on a magnetic rack. Not direct sunlight , but better to see aging process than a drawer. I can post now pictures tonight. Dave do you still have the new shots?


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## jacko9

When finishing oily woods I start with shellac mixed from de-waxed flakes and only mix as much as I need for the current project. I mix it to a very thin consistency so it goes on the wood almost like alcohol and it drys very fast so I only swipe in on once and move. I use a pad of paper rags covered with a layer of soft cotton. I wait a few hours and re-coat it several times. I then let it cure 24 hours before I coat with a thinned Arm-R-Seal urethane varnish.


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## Dave Martell

Bill13 said:


> I have a Forgecraft knife Dave did a ironwood handle on a couple of years ago. It gets a fair amount of use and is left out on a magnetic rack. Not direct sunlight , but better to see aging process than a drawer. I can post now pictures tonight. Dave do you still have the new shots?




I do but that handle was done back in 2016 while I was still very early in trying to figure this stuff out.


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## tim37

Hi Dave,
I built boats for years and that is a problem boat builders have been trying to solve for years. There are several good teak oils with UV inhibiters which you may want to try. The one I use on teak scales (teak is an extremely oily wood) is Starbrite Golden Teak Oil. I sand to 400 grit and wet sand with the oil for 2 coats at 400 to fill the pores. Let each coat sit for 10 min. before wiping off the excess. Let dry 24 hours between all coats. After the 2 fill coats I do 8 to 10 coats wiping it on, letting it sit 10 min., and wiping off the excess. Let it dry 24 hours between coats. You probably don't have to do 8 to 10 coats - 4 would do for a kitchen knife. When it starts looking shabby, sand down with 240 grit and then 400 grit and apply at least 4 new coats. I've never tried it on AZ Ironwood.


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## Dave Martell

jacko9 said:


> When finishing oily woods I start with shellac mixed from de-waxed flakes and only mix as much as I need for the current project. I mix it to a very thin consistency so it goes on the wood almost like alcohol and it drys very fast so I only swipe in on once and move. I use a pad of paper rags covered with a layer of soft cotton. I wait a few hours and re-coat it several times. I then let it cure 24 hours before I coat with a thinned Arm-R-Seal urethane varnish.





tim37 said:


> Hi Dave,
> I built boats for years and that is a problem boat builders have been trying to solve for years. There are several good teak oils with UV inhibiters which you may want to try. The one I use on teak scales (teak is an extremely oily wood) is Starbrite Golden Teak Oil. I sand to 400 grit and wet sand with the oil for 2 coats at 400 to fill the pores. Let each coat sit for 10 min. before wiping off the excess. Let dry 24 hours between all coats. After the 2 fill coats I do 8 to 10 coats wiping it on, letting it sit 10 min., and wiping off the excess. Let it dry 24 hours between coats. You probably don't have to do 8 to 10 coats - 4 would do for a kitchen knife. When it starts looking shabby, sand down with 240 grit and then 400 grit and apply at least 4 new coats. I've never tried it on AZ Ironwood.




Thanks for the tips guys!


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## Bert2368

tim37 said:


> Hi Dave,
> I built boats for years and that is a problem boat builders have been trying to solve for years. There are several good teak oils with UV inhibiters which you may want to try. The one I use on teak scales (teak is an extremely oily wood) is Starbrite Golden Teak Oil. I sand to 400 grit and wet sand with the oil for 2 coats at 400 to fill the pores. Let each coat sit for 10 min. before wiping off the excess. Let dry 24 hours between all coats. After the 2 fill coats I do 8 to 10 coats wiping it on, letting it sit 10 min., and wiping off the excess. Let it dry 24 hours between coats. You probably don't have to do 8 to 10 coats - 4 would do for a kitchen knife. When it starts looking shabby, sand down with 240 grit and then 400 grit and apply at least 4 new coats. I've never tried it on AZ Ironwood.



Wooden boat building? Colour me envious.

Question? 

Real lignum vitae, about as oily as wood gets- Have you ever finished this for exposed use?

Usually on a boat, it's down by the engine room, bearings for a shaft where no one sees it...


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## Jlc88

Buying! 
https://www.amazon.com/Star-Brite-Premium-Golden-Teak/dp/B0014432K6?th=1


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## Bert2368

Jlc88 said:


> Buying!
> https://www.amazon.com/Star-Brite-Premium-Golden-Teak/dp/B0014432K6?th=1



Me too, sorry I didn't post about it sooner (can be had for less on ebay...)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Part-85132...sh=item261805362c:g:f-AAAOSwk25cle7M&LH_BIN=1

Funny thing, we actually use this kind of thing on BOATS. For work.

(Here in the land of 10,000 lakes and no free areas on shore without trees, we do a lot of water based fireworks shows requiring several boats per show)


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## Jlc88

I found it for $24 on amazon by going with the larger size. Thanks. Let’s give it a go....


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## cotedupy

Dave Martell said:


> Here's the most recent ironwood handle finished with 12 coats of wiping varnish mix. I'm starting to get the hang of this.



I was just googling shellac and it looks like someone has not only nabbed your picture DM, but also mistaken the finish... (?)









Sealing knife handles with Shellac for perfect finishes | KZNKnifemakers


Shellac is derived from a resin that is secreted from the female lac bug and when mixed with alcohol forms an all-natural sealer and finish that's non-toxic and fast-drying even on very oily exotic woods.




www.kznknifemakers.co.za


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## Dave Martell

cotedupy said:


> I was just googling shellac and it looks like someone has not only nabbed your picture DM, but also mistaken the finish... (?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sealing knife handles with Shellac for perfect finishes | KZNKnifemakers
> 
> 
> Shellac is derived from a resin that is secreted from the female lac bug and when mixed with alcohol forms an all-natural sealer and finish that's non-toxic and fast-drying even on very oily exotic woods.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kznknifemakers.co.za




Thanks!


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## jacko9

Dave using waxed shellac flakes dissolved in alcohol to a very thin consistency allows you to wet a cotton cloth and take a quick swipe that has almost the feel of wiping the wood with alcohol. You don't need a lot of shellac on wood to form a barrier to the natural oils in wood. If you want multiple coats it drys in less than a hour and you can build up 5 or 6 costs a day if desired. I use this barrier for all of my exotic woods that I finish with a wiping varnish. The varnish I have found the easiest to use is General Finishes Arm-R-Seal diluted 15% with mineral spirits. I apply this like you would French Polish with a cotton shirt ball and only take a full swipe and move from wet to dry only.


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## Dave Martell

jacko9 said:


> Dave using waxed shellac flakes dissolved in alcohol to a very thin consistency allows you to wet a cotton cloth and take a quick swipe that has almost the feel of wiping the wood with alcohol. You don't need a lot of shellac on wood to form a barrier to the natural oils in wood. If you want multiple coats it drys in less than a hour and you can build up 5 or 6 costs a day if desired. I use this barrier for all of my exotic woods that I finish with a wiping varnish. The varnish I have found the easiest to use is General Finishes Arm-R-Seal diluted 15% with mineral spirits. I apply this like you would French Polish with a cotton shirt ball and only take a full swipe and move from wet to dry only.



I've actually been thinking about giving shellac one last try (again). Thanks for the tip!


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## jacko9

Dave Martell said:


> I've actually been thinking about giving shellac one last try (again). Thanks for the tip!


Here's several layers of shellac and a few dozen layers of wiping varnish on some rosewood.


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## Dave Martell

jacko9 said:


> Here's several layers of shellac and a few dozen layers of wiping varnish on some rosewood.



That's fantastic!


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## jacko9

Dave Martell said:


> That's fantastic!


Seven Years as a dining room table with food and alcohol spills and only a wet cloth clean up with no damage to the top. I'm a true believer in General Finishes Arm-R-Seal as I've used it for every thing from dining tables to desk tops without any complaints and I guarantee my work.


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## Dhoff

Could be interesting to send jacko9 a AZ ironwood handle and see if it would be as succesfull as that beautiful rosewood.


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## jacko9

Dhoff said:


> Could be interesting to send jacko9 a AZ ironwood handle and see if it would be as succesfull as that beautiful rosewood.


Actually I have a large stock of exotics in different rosewoods, cocobolo, ebony, etc. As long as you get the initial coating of shellac on to seal in the resins of the hardwood the rest is easy. I would gladly finish any small quantity of woods you send me as long as you understand there is a drying time between coatings and several coatings to get a very good finish. Of course there are no guarantees ;-)


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## Dhoff

Alas, I wish I owned a knife with az ironwood, it is next on the list, hence the interest in this cool thread.


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## Bert2368

jacko9 said:


> Actually I have a large stock of exotics in different rosewoods, cocobolo, ebony, etc. As long as you get the initial coating of shellac on to seal in the resins of the hardwood the rest is easy. I would gladly finish any small quantity of woods you send me as long as you understand there is a drying time between coatings and several coatings to get a very good finish. Of course there are no guarantees ;-)












General Finishes Arm-R-Seal Urethane Top Coat, Satin


Wipe on with a cloth or apply with a foam brush for a hard, durable satin-sheen topcoat.




www.rockler.com






3 different gloss levels are offered here. Which was used on the rosewood table top?


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## jacko9

Bert2368 said:


> General Finishes Arm-R-Seal Urethane Top Coat, Satin
> 
> 
> Wipe on with a cloth or apply with a foam brush for a hard, durable satin-sheen topcoat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rockler.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 different gloss levels are offered here. Which was used on the rosewood table top?



Semi-gloss I tried the full gloss finish and it looked too much like a plastic like coating. The Semi-Gloss let's you see the wood structure. Just remember to dilute it 15% with mineral spirits to let it flow evenly.


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## Dave Martell

Hey guys, I just realized that I haven't updated this thread. The only thing I think is worth noting is that I've tried two types of General Finish products, the Seal-A-Cell and the Arm-R-Seal. Unfortunately both failed the ironwood long term tests.

I did find both of these products to be very nice though, sealing the wood well, and leaving a nice finish.


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## jacko9

Dave Martell said:


> Hey guys, I just realized that I haven't updated this thread. The only thing I think is worth noting is that I've tried two types of General Finish products, the Seal-A-Cell and the Arm-R-Seal. Unfortunately both failed the ironwood long term tests.
> 
> I did find both of these products to be very nice though, sealing the wood well, and leaving a nice finish.


 Hi Dave, Can you tell me a little more about failing the long term tests? I realize that I have only used Arm-R-Seal for table top finishes and they might have a less severe test than your long term tests. I'm just curious and can you tell me how many finish coats you used? Did you use shellac flakes dissolved in alcohol to a thin consistency first? I'm just trying to learn, thanks.


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## Dave Martell

jacko9 said:


> Hi Dave, Can you tell me a little more about failing the long term tests? I realize that I have only used Arm-R-Seal for table top finishes and they might have a less severe test than your long term tests. I'm just curious and can you tell me how many finish coats you used? Did you use shellac flakes dissolved in alcohol to a thin consistency first? I'm just trying to learn, thanks.




I haven't used shellac at all for ironwood and that's about the only thing I haven't tried. I have a bad relationship with that stuff - it hates me and I hate it back more. Shellac might be the answer though.

For my own testing it's been wash wash wash and let the wood sit in the shop - that's it. What's proven more valuable is the feedback I've got from customers. The thing is that it might just be possible for ironwood to retain it's appearance (or not get so dark anyway) if a knife was to go into a safe and never have it's handle subjected to kitchen, I can't say though, but I can say that kitchen use and ironwood don't work out well in the looks department.


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## jacko9

Dave Martell said:


> I haven't used shellac at all for ironwood and that's about the only thing I haven't tried. I have a bad relationship with that stuff - it hates me and I hate it back more. Shellac might be the answer though.
> 
> For my own testing it's been wash wash wash and let the wood sit in the shop - that's it. What's proven more valuable is the feedback I've got from customers. The thing is that it might just be possible for ironwood to retain it's appearance (or not get so dark anyway) if a knife was to go into a safe and never have it's handle subjected to kitchen, I can't say though, but I can say that kitchen use and ironwood don't work out well in the looks department.


Dave, I would never use canned shellac if that was what you used. I always use shellac flaked dissolved in alcohol. I use shellac to act as a barrier to the exotic oils in the woods and then use thinned Arm-R-Seal in multiple coats to seal the wood.


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## Dave Martell

jacko9 said:


> Dave, I would never use canned shellac if that was what you used. I always use shellac flaked dissolved in alcohol. I use shellac to act as a barrier to the exotic oils in the woods and then use thinned Arm-R-Seal in multiple coats to seal the wood.




You nailed it - I used canned shellac!


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## jacko9

Dave, Here's a link to the super blonde flakes I use. The bag will last you a long time and in the flake form they will last years. I only mix enough to use on my current project and a small jar will do. I fill it half full with alcohol and add the flakes and mix to get a thin consistency needed to be able to wipe with a cotton cloth. I like to keep the solution mix so thin I can wipe it and it will dry within minutes. You only several thin layers to form a complete film barrier to the wood oils. Brooklyn Tool and Craft - Shellac Super Blonde Flakes 1/2 lb


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## Dave Martell

Thanks Jack!

BTW, are you using "denatured" alcohol?


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## jacko9

Yes denatured alcohol. Only mix as much as you're going to use on the current project or within a few months.


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