# Diamond stone set again?



## JBroida

There has recently been a lot of interest in the diamond stone set we did a while back. I was wondering if there was enough interest to do it again. I cant find all of the past threads, but here was the main one from me:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/14275-Diamond-Stone-Set-Initial-Run-Signup

This time, i'd be happy to do sets of the 1k and 6k, along with the 1k or 6k separately. I think the price would be the same still, but i will have to look more into it when i get back from Japan.

If you're interested, please post here and i will take a look later on to see where we all stand.

The stone set should run $300 for both and $150 for each.

Thanks.

-Jon


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## Vesteroid

Could you help me understand why I would use this set in place of the other set you just offered? Is it a speed issue, a quality issue, a specific type of steel...a specific finish.

Srill new to all the details and building my kit so just trying to u dirst and what this set does as compared to your gesshin set?


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## JDA_NC

Here is a really good thread breaking down the characteristics of the two stones (and it includes a comparison to the Gesshin S&G), as well as video of them in use:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/14188-Would-there-be-interest

I would be interested in a set


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## Paco.McGraw

The price on these is pretty steep, but you get what you pay for. 

These stones work fast and leave a damn good finish, the 6k is semi polished but toothy. 

If you're looking to flatten a bevel or reset an edge, you still need something lower but for most uses this is all you will need IMO. 

Personally I am not a fan of these with wide bevels, but Jon disagrees. 

If you like to play in the mud, these are not the stones for you. 

If you like a splash n go stone with great feedback, look into them if you've got the money. 

My .02

-Sam


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## marc4pt0

I'm interested


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## Matus

Jon, you wanted to make a test run some time ago - did it happen? If yes - what was the feedback?


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## daveb

Pens T has written about these in glowing terms, for me that's reason enough to consider them. But like others I have an assortment of synthetic soakers, some S&G, a set of DMT (for hunting and other peoples knives) and a couple nats. These diamond plates are pricey but not prohibitive. Would like more info on what holes they would fill.


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## Framingchisel

I am interested. Are naguras and holder part of this set?
Please compare to 600k and 4000k gesshins, as they appear to get me to about the same point, re tooth and useful kitchen edge on carbon knives. I have a number of diamond plates from sharpening slicks etc. for timber framing. These clearly would work, but seem like cheating for good knives. I will admit to using them on ss cheapies.


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## berko

what are the measurements of these? can we get some pictures?


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## Pensacola Tiger

berko said:


> what are the measurements of these? can we get some pictures?



There are videos in Jon's initial thread:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...re-be-interest?p=238771&viewfull=1#post238771

Mine measure 198 mm x 74 mm x 18 mm. The diamond sharpening material is about 2 mm thick, and is attached to a metal base:





I have used these stones for almost a year, and they have not shown any dishing, nor any wear, in that time.


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## Vesteroid

i am interested


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## JBroida

If those who are interested could please also include in their post exactly what they are interested in buying, that would be extremely helpful


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## marc4pt0

The whole set and all of its jazz


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## Vesteroid

Whole set and all that jazz....wait....yes all that


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## Chuckles

I'm in. Todo o Nada.


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## Framingchisel

I would like to try the two plus the holder. Are you using these for your regular sharpening and will they displace the possible combo of 600k and 4000k gesshin or is there a place for both. If you can compare the paper cutting edge of both after a one micron strop. on paper and tomatoes. I don't want much...heh heh heh


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## daveb

In for a penny, in for 60,000 of them.


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## JBroida

Framingchisel said:


> I would like to try the two plus the holder. Are you using these for your regular sharpening and will they displace the possible combo of 600k and 4000k gesshin or is there a place for both. If you can compare the paper cutting edge of both after a one micron strop. on paper and tomatoes. I don't want much...heh heh heh



a 600, 4000 combo would be impossible to do unless i put them together here myself. They are made in different places for us.

On comparing stropped edges, i dont really strop on loaded strops, so i'm probably not the person to ask on that. The 4k will have more bite for sure though.


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## Matus

Jon, I am still hoping for something 600/3000 S&G stone from you. But I can be patient


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## scubagolf

Jon I'm in for a set, thanks.


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## mdoublestack

i would be int for a set, base and so on.

Thanks jon


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## seryk20

I'm in fo a set!!!!
Thank you john!!


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## marc4pt0

Hey Jon, just checking in. Where do we stand on these time-wise?


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## Zwiefel

Framingchisel said:


> I am interested. Are naguras and holder part of this set?
> Please compare to 600k and 4000k gesshins, as they appear to get me to about the same point, re tooth and useful kitchen edge on carbon knives. I have a number of diamond plates from sharpening slicks etc. for timber framing. These clearly would work, but seem like cheating for good knives. I will admit to using them on ss cheapies.




Perhaps I'm confused....but I don't think a nagura for a diamond plate makes sense. My understanding is that a nagura is supposed to refine the surface of a stone after flattening to give a less coarse edge. I think I've heard of it being used to jumpstart creating a slurry, but I'm not sure if that makes sense on a diamond plate...?


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## chinacats

Zwiefel said:


> Perhaps I'm confused....but I don't think a nagura for a diamond plate makes sense. My understanding is that a nagura is supposed to refine the surface of a stone after flattening to give a less coarse edge. I think I've heard of it being used to jumpstart creating a slurry, but I'm not sure if that makes sense on a diamond plate...?



I believe somewhere it was stated that this 'nagura' is not used in the traditional sense, but rather as a means of cleaning the stone? That said, I could be wrong!


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## Pensacola Tiger

chinacats said:


> I believe somewhere it was stated that this 'nagura' is not used in the traditional sense, but rather as a means of cleaning the stone? That said, I could be wrong!



You are correct. The nagura in this set is used to clean the stone of embedded swarf.


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## JohnnyChance

There are naguras included that clean/flatten the diamond surface.

I have this set and like it a lot. I have a set of soakers that I leave it home and keep these at work (or take with me when traveling) for a lightweight option that never requires flattening. 

Any chance for a 4-500 grit option?


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## Zwiefel

CC/PT/JC, thanks for the clarification! Now I'm interested to know more about it...is it, perchance, in any of the videos that were referenced earlier?


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## toddnmd

Hmm, I missed this thread earlier. I'm interested in a set. Although I'm wondering if that means I would no longer have any real need for my Bester 1200 and Arashiyama 6K . . . I'll admit that I both use and collect knives, but I'm really interested in stones to keep my knives sharp. Not that interested in being a collector of stones . . .


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## JBroida

sadly, no 4-500 grit option this time, but i have a different type 300 grit diamond stone i am trying to get up on the website soon


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## JBroida

Alright... checking back in here and getting ready to order these... here's the list of people i have so far:


JDA_NC
marc4pt0 
Framingchisel 
Vesteroid
Chuckles
daveb
scubagolf 
mdoublestack
seryk20
toddnmd

Looks like everyone is in for the entire set. I will follow up with everyone via PM or email as soon as i get caught up a bit more on e-mails, so if anyone else wants in, this week will be the last week before i order (i will probably order them on friday). If anyone has more in depth questions, feel free to give me a call at the store this week... it will be much faster than PM or e-mail right now.

Thanks.

-Jon


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## marc4pt0

Can't wait!
Seriously, I'm past due on stones big time


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## mdoublestack

Oh yeah, im still in! 
I looked around - but couldnt find it again - what are the dimensions on this set, mounted on the base?


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## Pensacola Tiger

mdoublestack said:


> Oh yeah, im still in!
> I looked around - but couldnt find it again - what are the dimensions on this set, mounted on the base?



http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...tone-set-again?p=323315&viewfull=1#post323315


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## Framingchisel

I am in for a complete set. Thanks


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## JBroida

just a friendly reminder... tomorrow will be the last day to order these for this run. I know i have some outstanding e-mails and PM's to respond to regarding this... i will begin on that tomorrow. As long as you have notified me before tomorrow, you are good as far as i am concerned.

Thanks.

-Jon


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## DevinT

Please put me down for a set.

Hoss


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## steelcity

PM sent on these.


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## JBroida

Here's what we've got as of today...

JDA_NC
marc4pt0 
Framingchisel 
Vesteroid
Chuckles
daveb
scubagolf 
mdoublestack
seryk20 (plus 1 extra 6k stone)
toddnmd
DevinT
ajrh
Mr Drinky
Steelcity

There is one other person potentially, pending a conversation in the near future.


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## dough

hey jon if im not too late ill take a set.


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## JBroida

final list... gonna try to contact everyone this weekend with regard to this order:

JDA_NC
marc4pt0 
Framingchisel 
Vesteroid
Chuckles
daveb
scubagolf 
mdoublestack
seryk20 (plus 1 extra 6k stone)
toddnmd
DevinT
ajrh
Mr Drinky
Steelcity
dough


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## XooMG

Ha, just a bit too late. If anyone disappears, let me know.


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## JBroida

XooMG said:


> Ha, just a bit too late. If anyone disappears, let me know.


i havent ordered anything yet, so if you want in too, its not a problem for me... let me know


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## XooMG

JBroida said:


> i havent ordered anything yet, so if you want in too, its not a problem for me... let me know


Sure, sign me up for both...


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## JBroida

marc4pt0 said:


> Hey Jon, just checking in. Where do we stand on these time-wise?



just realized i never replied to this... we are looking at about 2-3 weeks if all goes well without any delays. It should be pretty fast, as we are already on top of ordering, etc.

Also, as a side note to those who are participating, i forgot to ask you to send me your KKF Username in the e-mail as well... it makes it a bit easier to keep track of everyone for this. Would you guys mind sending me a quick note via e-mail with your username. I know most of them, but there are a couple i cant match up to e-mails i have here.

Thanks.

-Jon


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## JohnnyChance

JBroida said:


> sadly, no 4-500 grit option this time, but i have a different type 300 grit diamond stone i am trying to get up on the website soon




That works for me.


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## Von blewitt

Jon, I um'd and ah'd about these, and talked myself out of them but if it's not too late can I grab a set? Totally cool if I missed the boat.


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## JBroida

Von blewitt said:


> Jon, I um'd and ah'd about these, and talked myself out of them but if it's not too late can I grab a set? Totally cool if I missed the boat.



see your PM's


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## JBroida

JohnnyChance said:


> That works for me.



just put the 300 diamond stone up... no pictures yet, but we're working on it.

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...-toishi/diamond-300a-stone-and-flattener.html


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## JDA_NC

I think it's really cool that you're providing these diamond plate options! I'm looking forward to this set.

As a side note, you mentioned previously that you were waiting for handles from Japan for those PM steel knives you posted on Instagram awhile back. I'm in no rush, especially with the holiday season and all that, but do you have any word on those? You will probably be seeing more of my money then too :biggrin:

Edit: Happy Thanksgiving to you and the family as well. Hope y'all had a good time in Japan and it's nice to have you back stateside!


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## JBroida

JDA_NC said:


> I think it's really cool that you're providing these diamond plate options! I'm looking forward to this set.
> 
> As a side note, you mentioned previously that you were waiting for handles from Japan for those PM steel knives you posted on Instagram awhile back. I'm in no rush, especially with the holiday season and all that, but do you have any word on those? You will probably be seeing more of my money then too :biggrin:
> 
> Edit: Happy Thanksgiving to you and the family as well. Hope y'all had a good time in Japan and it's nice to have you back state-side!



handles came in... just trying to find time to finish the knives and put the handles on


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## JDA_NC

Rock on. As I was saying, please take your time! But one of those semi-stainless 240mm (or 210mm depending on your stock) probably has my name on them :nunchucks:


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## JBroida

so, the Diamond stone sets are ordered, and, for now, this buy is closed. For what its worth, i always pick up some extra of these, so when they come in, i may check back and see if anyone else is interested.

Thanks again to everyone who is participating. I really hope you enjoy these as much as i do.


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## JBroida

---UPDATE---

These are already on the way from Japan... should be here relatively quickly. I will let you guys know when they arrive and we will do our best to get them shipped out ASAP.

Thanks again to everyone who participated. I picked up a few extra this time, so i may place some up on our website to see how things go. Also, for those who contacted me about picking up a set after the buy closed, we should be able to get you what you need.

-Jon


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## Marcelo Amaral

I'm interested if you can send it to Brazil.


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## JBroida

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I'm interested if you can send it to Brazil.



we can, but it will be quite expensive, as the package will be quite heavy


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## Marcelo Amaral

Can you send me a PM telling me how much it would cost to send me both diamond plate to Brazil if you have a couple to spare? Thanks, Jon!


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## Marcelo Amaral

Got it, thanks!


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## evanjohnson

H Jon-
Missed the original post somehow. If there's an extra set, I'll take one.
John


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## JBroida

These just came in today... i'll be sending out invoices to all involved shortly. When i'm done with that, i will check in on those of you waiting for extras.


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## marc4pt0

Wahoo!


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## JBroida

so we've got 1 extra set... i know there were some who expressed interest to me before. If anyone is still interested, please shoot me a PM ASAP. First come, first serve basis.


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## JBroida

and that's a wrap... if we missed anyone this time, feel free to shoot me a PM. If there are enough of you, i'll place another order.


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## gavination

I would definitely love to hear what people think once they get to spend some time with these. No cash this round, but next time, for sure!


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## berko

> I would definitely love to hear what people think once they get to spend some time with these.



+1, there are a few out there now. lets hear some feedback.


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## JDA_NC

berko said:


> +1, there are a few out there now. lets hear some feedback.



This latest batch just got sent out. I doubt anyone has received it yet (unless they're in Southern California).

Pensacola Tiger has written some about his experience with the set. Once I get mine, I'll try and post some good pictures & thoughts about the set for everyone here. As long as a time/life/work permits.


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## marc4pt0

Just got the set a couple hours ago. 
Had to give them a whirl before I left for work. 
Initial thoughts? Best $300 I've spent on this forum to date. 
But that's just based on one use thus far. 
The 6k leaves a nice bitey edge.


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## berko

more pics pls :doublethumbsup:


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## Chuckles

The 6K has made a big impact with powder metalurgy steels for me.


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## seryk20

Amazing stones


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## marc4pt0

I've always had a bit of a tougher time with getting a great edge on CPM 154. Don't really know why. When I do though, watch out mise en place. But now with my trusty new 6k diamond stone, Those days are _Over._


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## mr drinky

Chuckles said:


> The 6K has made a big impact with powder metalurgy steels for me.



Interesting. I'm gong to try it on my mr tanaka. 

k.


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## cclin

I got the set a couple days ago. I have used it to sharpen/touch-up several knives, including carbon,semi-stainless, stainless & PM steel. very good result for all of these steels.
6k stone finished up with a fine & nice tooth edge. No over polish running edge. I like them a lot......I'm thinking to sell some of my other stones just because of these diamond stone set!!


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## marc4pt0

Is that a Fujiyama I see in there?

I am really liking the 6k stone as well. Was able to get a god feel for the edge it gives yesterday at work. And I already have set aside some stones that I don't see myself using anymore. I gotta say, Jon, great looking out on these guys! These stones once again just lament the fact that you truly are our cutlery _Advocate!_

I remember the Ealy that Rick sent me last year. He made mention to take note of the edge he gave it with these stones. I was super impressed with the toothy yet refined edge but by that time had already missed the group buy. Very pleased to have made it in this time around.


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## CoqaVin

those are some cool looking knives you got there :doublethumbsup:


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## daveb

All I got for Christmas was a box of rocks. But some nice rocks! Got them wet and did a quick touch up on a couple knives. Like.


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## JBroida

we ended up ordering a few more of these, and they will be en route from Japan shortly... i will post here when they arrive


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## Von blewitt

Looks like mine will arrive before Christmas, I'm looking forward to trying them out.


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## Vesteroid

So does the green side go up


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## marc4pt0

Yup!


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## Midsummer

I have been wanting to try these...


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## toddnmd

Are the two special naguras the same or different? Does anyone know?
So far I've used these stones on a handful of knives, and have been happy that they work fairly quickly and well.


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## JBroida

toddnmd said:


> Are the two special naguras the same or different? Does anyone know?
> So far I've used these stones on a handful of knives, and have been happy that they work fairly quickly and well.



The same


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## Von blewitt

Got mine today, have to wait till Christmas morning to open them up.


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## Vesteroid

I used mine today to touch up my kagekiyo I did 5 quick passes each side on the 6k and then took my ealy parer to both the 1 and 6 k stones.

I have to admit, the kagekiyo are by far my best knives...I had to slice up 4 lbs of sweet potatoes and pulled out all sorts of knives to compare....the kagekiyo 270 fell through those with twice the ease of my American knives. Only other one close was my wantanabe.

Love the stones


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## Mucho Bocho

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive but I'd like to hear some feedback on these two stones. I'd like to hear about scratch patterns, cutting speed, maintenance, edge quality... Did they replace some of your other stones? What types of steel are you sharpening? I'm moving to a completely splash and go set up and have high expectations for these. TKS MB


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## Midsummer

Mucho Bocho said:


> I'm still waiting for mine to arrive but I'd like to hear some feedback on these two stones. I'd like to hear about scratch patterns, cutting speed, maintenance, edge quality... Did they replace some of your other stones? What types of steel are you sharpening? I'm moving to a completely splash and go set up and have high expectations for these. TKS MB



Yea I like the splash and go concept and these stones, I think, will be good. I just am unsure of Jon's thoughts on making these available. If they do not become available inr the future; I was thinking of maybe the shapton ceramics. I just don't know of any other good splash and go's.


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## JBroida

If these are something anyone is interested in, just let me know. Anytime we have enough people, we would be happy to order them. In fact, i already have more on the way.


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## Midsummer

If they are still ~150 per stone; I would be interested in the set. I sent a pm. Thanks


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## JDA_NC

Mucho Bocho said:


> I'm still waiting for mine to arrive but I'd like to hear some feedback on these two stones. I'd like to hear about scratch patterns, cutting speed, maintenance, edge quality... Did they replace some of your other stones? What types of steel are you sharpening? I'm moving to a completely splash and go set up and have high expectations for these. TKS MB



I've been really happy with them. I've only used them about six or seven times so I was waiting to get more time with them before going more in-depth.

As far as stones go, like you I've gone to a harder, faster cutting, splash & go setup. I still keep some soaking but instead of taking my time and playing around in mud like before, I'm looking to just get down to business with my edges.

I find them to both cut extremely quick. The 1k in particular seems super aggressive, but I'm not sure if that is also because of just how it sounds while you're sharpening on it. The first knife I tried on it was a Hiromoto AS, where the edge had been practically dialed in & I've sharpened it tons in the past. I raised a huge burr on it within a minute... surprised me. That's the only carbon I've used on the stones but I've found the Hiromoto AS to be kinda finicky on certain stones in the past... so I imagine a White or Blue would react really well. I've sharpened SG2 & VG10 and they sharpen up super quick too.

Feel & feedback is similar to the Shapton line of stones (which they're replacing for me). The 6k feels a lot better, naturally, and as a 1-2 punch I find it quicker than any other combo I've tried. At least at that high grit range (I also have a JNS 6k & Rika 5k).

I haven't finished any knives directly on the 1k. I'm going to try that next. From just feeling the edge while sharpening it seems super aggressive and I've been really interested in the 6k. I like the end result that I get off the 6k - a nice mix of tooth & refinement - even though I personally prefer a more coarse edge n my knives. I'm also going to try just stropping a few times on the 6k and seeing how that does me.

The included stone holder is a nice benefit but I don't personally need it. I've got your pretty standard stone holder and these stones are more than tall enough with their bases. They're about double the height of a Shapton GS and fair bit taller than Shapton Pro's.

They do leave pretty deep, bright scratches on knives. They have that in common with other diamond stones. I could see that being the main negative about these for some people. If you like to start behind the edge and work your way down when you sharpen, and are a little particular about the finish of your knives... these might not be for you.

They do seem to load up a little bit as well. The 6k in particular. Nothing terrible - it's another thing that I find similar to Shapton Glass Stones - but I am glad the nagura's were included. That said, I haven't yet seen it really effect performance and I haven't needed to use the nagura.

Overall, I find them to be like Shapton GS on steroids. Which for me is a positive - because after playing around with a fair number of different stones, for the past few months my Shapton GS 1k was seeing about 90% of the action out of all of them. (The only other Glass Stones I've owned/used was a 4k - which I thought was absolutely terrible and probably my most regretted purchase. The 6k diamond blows that out of the water).


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## Buildsafire

Jon, I would like to buy a set if you can get me one. Thanks


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## Mucho Bocho

Thanks JD for the feedback. I've had mine for a few days now and have sharpened:

4" Mac Parer
5" Mac Petty
7" Mac Filet
8" Mesimeister Chinese clever in low RC temper
8" Chef Choice Chef knife (Trizor Stainless)
6" Carter Muteke (White #2)
3" Rader neck knife (AEBL)
4" Tadfusa Nasjii Petty (Blue #2)

The diamond stones cut very fast, are absolutely splash and go and actually hold onto water too. After using the 1000/6000 I was able to achieve the best edges yet--toothy but refined to shave hair without pulling. I like the edge off the 6000 best without any further refining. I was able to set the bevel and refine it with just a few strokes. I also think that lighter pressure might be a good idea too. 

My progression used to be: 1200Bester/5KRika/8K Takenono/felt strop for cleaning edge. Now I'm just going to stop at the 6000 diamond stone and use the Takenono as a dry strop (which it excels at) to refresh the edge. 

I'll update as to how the edges feel after some usage, but my initial impressions are that these JKI 1000/6000 diamond stones are one two knock out punch.


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## Mucho Bocho

Mac before thinning and refinishing


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## JBroida

We just got some more of these diamond sets in... this time, only 10, and i ordered them because there were a few people who asked last time, but we had already sold out.

I may have already sent e-mails to some of you about these, but if you're interested, please post here and we will get you taken care of.

Once again, the number of sets is limited, and this time, priority goes to those who have previously asked me for a set (after we sold out last time). This means that if we have 15 requests for the sets, priority will be give to anyone who previously contacted me about these, and the remainder will sell to the others in the order of their posts here.

Sound good?

Price is still the same... $300 for the set.


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## chefcomesback

What was the grit again Jon ? sorry I am on the mobile phone and can't read through all pages


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## marc4pt0

1k and 6k.

I'm so tempted to get a 2nd set for work...


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## JBroida

chefcomesback said:


> What was the grit again Jon ? sorry I am on the mobile phone and can't read through all pages



1000 and 6000 stones, 2 nagura, and a stone holder


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## seryk20

Hi john I'll get one set


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## Buildsafire

Jon, I would like a set please.


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## JBroida

2 sold, one pending, and 7 left... anyone else interested while we still have them in stock?


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## Midsummer

Count me in, just let me know where to pay pal to. Thanks Jon


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## JBroida

5 left


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## malexthekid

Jon, any idea on a shipping weight for the set?


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## JBroida

malexthekid said:


> Jon, any idea on a shipping weight for the set?



Probably 6 lbs or so


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## JBroida

down to 4 left


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## Framingchisel

Don't wait, Precise, consistent, easy to use, what more to say. Love at first grind and they work on framing chisels too.


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## Mucho Bocho

OK after owning these stones for a few weeks, I found something I don't like. These diamond stones sharpen knives so quickly and leave THE perfect edge that I don't get to sharpen much anymore. I'm not kidding. 

Raising a burr with just a few strokes on either side. I use Jon's J-stroke and stropping laterally across the stone for burr removal. The stones leave a refined but aggressive edge. Simply the best sharpening investment I've made. Thanks again JB


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## skiajl6297

All - just curious if anyone has ever used these for bevel set on straight razors. Please let me know if so. Very interested in these for my knives, but curious about whether they might also help with coarse razor work.


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## designdog

Jon,

Count me in on a set of these. Please advise payment instructions, etc.

Thanks.


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## designdog

Also want nagura and stone holder, if possible...

Thanks again!


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## JBroida

designdog said:


> Jon,
> 
> Count me in on a set of these. Please advise payment instructions, etc.
> 
> Thanks.



I have 1 set left in stock, so if you want it, just shoot me an email and I'll invoice you today


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## designdog

Email sent...


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## designdog

Proud owner-to-be of Jon's mystery diamond stone set - should have them tomorrow. I bought these following my journey into Western-made high end knives, by makers such as Devin, Marko, HHH, Ealy, Catcheside, etc. These have been mostly carbon, either AEB-L or CPM-154. 

My fondness has been for carbon knives, sharpened with some very nice Japanese naturals. I quickly found that these SS knives did not play well with Jnats. You could do it, but it is not pleasurable. Mucho work. Then I discovered that it was also a lot of work on my synthetic stones: Gesshin, JNS, etc. So I will move on to these mystery stones.

I am also the proud owner of a Catcheside and Marko gyuto, the former in 01, the latter in 52100. Both carbon, but not the Japanese carbon I am used to on my Tennen Toishi! So my question - since I will not soon be sharpening these new knives - is, what stones to sharpen them with? Do these steels lean towards the Japanese carbon family, or more to the stainless enclave? Inquiring minds want to know...:detective:


----------



## skiajl6297

Been playing with these for a week or so now, and there is no question - these just flat out work. Very fast, very easy to use, leave an excellent useful edge after the 6k. Anyone on the fence about these, particularly folks who value speed and precision, will love these stones. I have used them on 01, vintage carbon, AO Super, AEB-L, VG-10 and S30V (pocket knife), and they just flat out work, on everything. By far the easiest stones I have ever used on the stainless steels, and effortless burr raising on carbon. Thanks for these Jon!


----------



## malexthekid

Jon any idea of you will be getting some more of these?


----------



## pleue

+1


----------



## JBroida

i can order some more if enough people are interested... how about this... for those interested, shoot me an e-mail at [email protected] with the subject line "Diamond Stone Set Group Buy" (without the quotes obviously). I have a filter set up to flag these messages, so i can get a quick count on interest.


----------



## JBroida

so far, only 2 people have e-mailed me about this... anyone else interested in this?


----------



## Dardeau

Bump, I would like to get enough involved to make this worth Jon's while. Note in over one year how many of these have gone to BST?


----------



## Pensacola Tiger

Dardeau said:


> Bump, I would like to get enough involved to make this worth Jon's while. Note in over one year how many of these have gone to BST?



Zero, as far as I can recall.


----------



## labor of love

Dardeau said:


> Bump, I would like to get enough involved to make this worth Jon's while. Note in over one year how many of these have gone to BST?



Okay, well im calling dibs on certain stones you will likely be replacing!:biggrin:


----------



## Dardeau

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Zero, as far as I can recall.



My point exactly. 

Craig, if they replace anything I think it will be my approx 1k stones, I'll let you know if they are available. The 6k will probably see a lot of use as a touch up stone.


----------



## JDA_NC

If you are on the fence about these - buy them. All my other stones have practically been collecting dust since I've owned the pair. Coarse stones, soakers, naturals etc. They're fast, easy to use, don't really dish, and give you great results. If I lost them I wouldn't blink about spending the money again.


----------



## Mucho Bocho

I'm going to bring my set to the ECG this year for folks to try. You'll be bum rushing Jon after trying them.


----------



## JBroida

we're only up to 3 people interested so far... need a couple more before i order a bunch again


----------



## malexthekid

Yeah come on people. Jump on board


----------



## bob_loblaw

I want a set, but I've been on a bit of a spree lately and need to keep my spending down. Any chances this opportunity will come again in the future?


----------



## JBroida

yeah... i hope to continue to offer these anytime there is enough interest


----------



## Dardeau

Anyone? Bueller?


----------



## bob_loblaw

Jon, how many more do you need?


----------



## JBroida

bob_loblaw said:


> Jon, how many more do you need?



At least 2 more


----------



## Eric

Jon-I'm in for a set if you re-order. Eric


----------



## JBroida

i decided to order a bunch anyways... they will be on the way around the end of next week or early the following week


----------



## bob_loblaw

Jon, I'd like to get a set if they're not all claimed.

Thanks,
Joe


----------



## JBroida

sure... just shoot me an e-mail at [email protected]imports.com with the subject line "Diamond Stone Set Group Buy" (without the quotes obviously). I have a filter set up to flag these messages.


----------



## bob_loblaw

email sent, thanks Jon!


----------



## JBroida

stones just arrived... i'm gonna go through the list of people who requested them and get back to you guys over the next couple of days... if we need to order more again, we will


----------



## pleue

Yes!


----------



## Dardeau

This is exciting!


----------



## JBroida

I've just sent out e-mails to everyone that requested one via e-mail (as per the directions previously stated in this thread)... if you didnt get an e-mail or would like to order one but havent yet, please follow the directions below:
for those interested, shoot me an e-mail at [email protected] with the subject line "Diamond Stone Set Group Buy" (without the quotes obviously). I have a filter set up to flag these messages, so i can get a quick count on interest.

I believe we have 2 more left if anyone wants them


----------



## Rosco

I don't think I can actually afford these at the minute but I am curious how much they would cost shipped to the UK?


----------



## JBroida

Shoot me an email and we can figure it out


----------



## JBroida

we've got a couple sets left still if there are any takers... just let me know


----------



## V1P

Does anyone want just the 6K so I can get the 1K? Pls PM if interested, thanks.


----------



## Dardeau

I got mine today and did a few knives. If you are on the fence, go for it, especially if you sit down and do four or more knives at a time. I only had to go down to a coarse stone for one knife that had a little chip, and put a finish on the bevels with a natural stone and did uras and microbevels with the 6k. I haven't tried yanagiba or deba edges on fish, but the gyuto and usuba edges were impressive on the veg I had around the house. I saved a ton of time compared to my normal progression, maybe 25%. I even did the lady's 10" Wusthof on the 1k and deburred on the 6k, less than five minutes.


----------



## malexthekid

Dardeau said:


> I got mine today and did a few knives. If you are on the fence, go for it, especially if you sit down and do four or more knives at a time. I only had to go down to a coarse stone for one knife that had a little chip, and put a finish on the bevels with a natural stone and did uras and microbevels with the 6k. I haven't tried yanagiba or deba edges on fish, but the gyuto and usuba edges were impressive on the veg I had around the house. I saved a ton of time compared to my normal progression, maybe 25%. I even did the lady's 10" Wusthof on the 1k and deburred on the 6k, less than five minutes.



Damn you people living in the States.... Mine is slowly making it's way across the pacific.


----------



## malexthekid

Set has arrived. And just as luck has it, I have some tradesmen coming around tomorrow morning so I have the morning off work. Looks like some sharpening might be on the cards


----------



## JBroida

damn... it took this long to get to you? DHL is F&*%ING up


----------



## Matus

Jon, it was probably customs that put the package somewhere and let it sit.


----------



## JBroida

still sucks though... wouldnt it be nice if every company, every step of the way actually took their job seriously?


----------



## loki993

Sure these may be expensive but for most people they should be the last stones they ever buy. Are there any left? Question though how would these work on German knives? I know they don't do well with the higher grits usually. If I got these they would need to work on Germans and Japanese knives. Is 1k too much for Germans?


----------



## malexthekid

Can't say it was customs wad in abd out of there in a few hours just seems postage likes to take its time getting to aus. But in better news have used then briefly and i can say my gesshin ginga W2 responded really well to it. Also used it on my ealy damascus gyuto and an aritsugu gyuto. I had heard that aritsugus can be a pain to sharpen bur didn't have too much of an issue


----------



## kohtachi

Umm after giving the 1k and the 6k a good once over with the supplied nagura all i can say is AWESOME SAUCE!!!! SOO FAST and good results! I LOVE KKF AND JON!


----------



## efaden

Are these still around?...


----------



## JBroida

Out of stock, but I can order more if there is enough interest


----------



## Dardeau

You should ask. They are really awesome.

I was on the fence until I realized that out of however many Jon has sold NONE have shown up on BST. Zero. Nothing else has that track record.


----------



## pleue

True story, love mine never putting them up for sale


----------



## skiajl6297

These stones make you sell your other stones.


----------



## marc4pt0

Hands down my most used set/combo to date. Thanks again Jon. Well worth the price.


----------



## Dardeau

skiajl6297 said:


> These stones make you sell your other stones.



Look at my BST listings. If the coarse wasn't $400 I would buy it tomorrow. Hell if somebody buys that Ohira I may just spend the 400 on the coarse stone.


----------



## efaden

I may be interested depending on price...


----------



## Doug

I'll purchase a set if they become available.


----------



## Dardeau

I kind of want another 6k so I can leave it at work.


----------



## labor of love

I just bought a knife from BST from Pensacola Tiger. He used the 6k as a finisher and the edge was truly unbelievable. Ill definitely sign up next time a list is formed.


----------



## Dardeau

To users that like the wide bevels. I rubbed a nagura sized Hakka from JNS all over the 6k to make a little mud and got some respectable contrast. Not what I'd call a kasumi finish, but it didn't suck.


----------



## CutFingers

If these are not manufactured by Naniwa Abrasive then who makes them? I think it is absurd to endorse products while hiding the manufacture. Since your product is priced comparably to the Naniwa products, I'd like to know the primary difference.


----------



## ThEoRy

Good idea, then others can copy the product and undercut the price leaving Jon out of the game.


----------



## berko

> Good idea, then others can copy the product and undercut the price leaving Jon out of the game.


:rofl2:



> Since your product is priced comparably to the Naniwa products, I'd like to know the primary difference.



i have both, the naniwa is slower cutting and feels harder, better feedback on the ones jon sells.


----------



## JBroida

CutFingers said:


> If these are not manufactured by Naniwa Abrasive then who makes them? I think it is absurd to endorse products while hiding the manufacture. Since your product is priced comparably to the Naniwa products, I'd like to know the primary difference.



i think you'd be surprised by the number of products in your life that you have no clue who actually makes. That being said, its important to keep in mind that not all manufacturers want to have their name out there. Many dont want to have anything about them shared publicly. As to the primary differences... i find these to cut faster and provide significantly better tactile feedback.


----------



## daveb

CutFingers said:


> If these are not manufactured by Naniwa Abrasive then who makes them? I think it is absurd to endorse products while hiding the manufacture./QUOTE]
> 
> I find your notion absurd. There are proprietary processes and proprietary materials in most products we use. Do you think Coke should tell you how it is made so that you can compare it to Pepsi? What steel does Shig use? Shig steel. These stones meet and exceed all functional specs. They work fine and last a long time. I can endorse them as such.


----------



## malexthekid

daveb said:


> CutFingers said:
> 
> 
> 
> If these are not manufactured by Naniwa Abrasive then who makes them? I think it is absurd to endorse products while hiding the manufacture./QUOTE]
> 
> I find your notion absurd. There are proprietary processes and proprietary materials in most products we use. Do you think Coke should tell you how it is made so that you can compare it to Pepsi? What steel does Shig use? Shig steel. These stones meet and exceed all functional specs. They work fine and last a long time. I can endorse them as such.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to second this.
> 
> Needless to day of all that have been sold to forum members not a single member has gone and put them on BST.
> 
> If you don't agree with the secrecy then don't buy them. But then again to continue points... do you not buy the drugs your doctor prescribes to you because pharma doesn't reveal what is in them and how they are made?
Click to expand...


----------



## TimH

Not to be argumentative, but pharma discloses exactly what is in your meds and exactly how they are made. That info is typically in patent applications which are readily available.


----------



## TimH

(You should just expect an army of attorneys beating down your door if you try to make use of that information to make a profit for yourself.)


----------



## malexthekid

TimH said:


> Not to be argumentative, but pharma discloses exactly what is in your meds and exactly how they are made. That info is typically in patent applications which are readily available.



Yeah i realised it was a bad example as soon as i hit send. 

Though what they tell you is practically useless to 99.99% of the population. 

I just get frustrated with people demanding to know what essentially is useless information.


----------



## CutFingers

"Good idea, then others can copy the product and undercut the price leaving Jon out of the game." Theory.

Hey Theory...why don't you tell your customers in your restaurant that you can't tell them where the food came from because you might be priced out of the game? Is it a game to you to offer quality? I don't care how skilled you are as a chef, that is a pathetic answer.

John Broida says "i think you'd be surprised by the number of products in your life that you have no clue who actually makes. That being said, its important to keep in mind that not all manufacturers want to have their name out there. Many dont want to have anything about them shared publicly. As to the primary differences... i find these to cut faster and provide significantly better tactile feedback."

They cut faster and provide better feedback to what John? You won't tell us what they are being compared to, so we are expected to pay you 300$ to find out. I don't think you deserve to make blanket statements about comparing your product to something that we don't even know what you are comparing it to.


----------



## SousVideLoca

> we are expected to pay you 300$ to find out.


Yeah, that's a stretch buddy.


----------



## JBroida

CutFingers said:


> "Good idea, then others can copy the product and undercut the price leaving Jon out of the game." Theory.
> 
> Hey Theory...why don't you tell your customers in your restaurant that you can't tell them where the food came from because you might be priced out of the game? Is it a game to you to offer quality? I don't care how skilled you are as a chef, that is a pathetic answer.
> 
> John Broida says "i think you'd be surprised by the number of products in your life that you have no clue who actually makes. That being said, its important to keep in mind that not all manufacturers want to have their name out there. Many dont want to have anything about them shared publicly. As to the primary differences... i find these to cut faster and provide significantly better tactile feedback."
> 
> They cut faster and provide better feedback to what John? You won't tell us what they are being compared to, so we are expected to pay you 300$ to find out. I don't think you deserve to make blanket statements about comparing your product to something that we don't even know what you are comparing it to.



you asked about the naniwa, so was comparing to those


----------



## malexthekid

CutFingers said:


> "Good idea, then others can copy the product and undercut the price leaving Jon out of the game." Theory.
> 
> Hey Theory...why don't you tell your customers in your restaurant that you can't tell them where the food came from because you might be priced out of the game? Is it a game to you to offer quality? I don't care how skilled you are as a chef, that is a pathetic answer.
> 
> John Broida says "i think you'd be surprised by the number of products in your life that you have no clue who actually makes. That being said, its important to keep in mind that not all manufacturers want to have their name out there. Many dont want to have anything about them shared publicly. As to the primary differences... i find these to cut faster and provide significantly better tactile feedback."
> 
> They cut faster and provide better feedback to what John? You won't tell us what they are being compared to, so we are expected to pay you 300$ to find out. I don't think you deserve to make blanket statements about comparing your product to something that we don't even know what you are comparing it to.



He isn't expecting you to pay for anything. If he is offering a product which people can choose to buy if they want. There is enough review and comment and even some video. If that ain't enough for you to decide then don't consider buying.

How is him telling you who makes it any different than what has been said already?

And quite often chefs what reveal a full recipe for certain dishes because they have their secret ingredients. So bad call on Theory. I would back him of he chose not to disclose the source of his ingredients. It is his perogative and he would love and die by who l view it tastes not if you know where it comes from.


----------



## CutFingers

Do you or don't you do business with Naniwa Abrasives? Yes or no...simple question.

Am I going to take business from you? Heck no... I can't afford a manufacturing run of my own product.

Care to explain why your prestigious Japanese manufactures don't want to be affiliated with you? That sounds pretty absurd to me.


----------



## chinacats

CutFingers said:


> "Good idea, then others can copy the product and undercut the price leaving Jon out of the game." Theory.
> 
> Hey Theory...why don't you tell your customers in your restaurant that you can't tell them where the food came from because you might be priced out of the game? Is it a game to you to offer quality? I don't care how skilled you are as a chef, that is a pathetic answer.
> 
> John Broida says "i think you'd be surprised by the number of products in your life that you have no clue who actually makes. That being said, its important to keep in mind that not all manufacturers want to have their name out there. Many dont want to have anything about them shared publicly. As to the primary differences... i find these to cut faster and provide significantly better tactile feedback."
> 
> They cut faster and provide better feedback to what John? You won't tell us what they are being compared to, so we are expected to pay you 300$ to find out. I don't think you deserve to make blanket statements about comparing your product to something that we don't even know what you are comparing it to.



Perhaps you should try the what am i drinking thread? 

interesting edit cut, maybe you should make it a double?


----------



## JBroida

no... i dont do business with naniwa. We did many years ago, but its been a long time. These stones are not made by naniwa.

Its not that makers dont want to be associated with me... we have great relationships with out vendors. Its that they dont like to deal with direct business and/or are maxed out in terms of what they can produce. We also are very protective of some of these relationships, as we have had issues with people trying to copy things we do over the years.


----------



## malexthekid

CutFingers said:


> Do you or don't you do business with Naniwa Abrasives? Yes or no...simple question.
> 
> Am I going to take business from you? Heck no... I can't afford a manufacturing run of my own product.
> 
> Care to explain why your prestigious Japanese manufactures don't want to be affiliated with you? That sounds pretty absurd to me.



Simple question for you. Why does it matter who makes it?


----------



## spoiledbroth

he seems to think its a snake oil product which isn't really supported by all the glowing reviews about these stones and apparently they rarely if ever go up on b/s/t


----------



## CutFingers

malexthekid

"He isn't expecting you to pay for anything. If he is offering a product which people can choose to buy if they want. There is enough review and comment and even some video. If that ain't enough for you to decide then don't consider buying."

It has nothing do with reviews or comments. I am asking the retailer what he is selling. John continues to suggest that his product does something that another product does not do, but he does not define his product. He does not manufacture his own product. I am asking him who makes it. Without any information in regards to to who makes it I have no idea the standard of product he is selling me.

From direct experience I know that Japanese Knife Imports provides a courteous and compassionate service to customers. But I really think I deserve to know what the heck I am buying.


----------



## JBroida

CutFingers said:


> malexthekid
> 
> "He isn't expecting you to pay for anything. If he is offering a product which people can choose to buy if they want. There is enough review and comment and even some video. If that ain't enough for you to decide then don't consider buying."
> 
> It has nothing do with reviews or comments. I am asking the retailer what he is selling. John continues to suggest that his product does something that another product does not do, but he does not define his product. He does not manufacture his own product. I am asking him who makes it. Without any information in regards to to who makes it I have no idea the standard of product he is selling me.
> 
> From direct experience I know that Japanese Knife Imports provides a courteous and compassionate service to customers. But I really think I deserve to know what the heck I am buying.



sadly, this maker does not like to deal with direct customers, and putting their name and info out there (especially online) encourages this. That being said, i would guess that most, if not all, people here have never heard of them, so there really is no baseline offered by just knowing the company. Because of that, we tried to make some videos that show the stones in action, we used them for an extended period of time and tried to write up the best and most unbiassed review we could (which will obviously still be biassed and bit and we acknowledge that), and then we encouraged the end users who have purchased these stones to share their frank and unbiassed opinions. Having personally used the vast majority of these types of stones on the market, i'm also capable of providing frames of reference when asked. Hope this helps.


----------



## SousVideLoca

> But I really think I deserve to know what the heck I am buying.


No, you don't. They're his trade secrets. You have absolutely no right to know the OEM of a product he chooses to sell, unless he and the OEM have agreed to make that information public. This applies to everything from diamond stones to computer parts, and anything in between.


----------



## toddnmd

Cut Fingers, please give it a rest. You've asked your questions, and Jon has (politely and helpfully) responded four times. He's given his explanation. 
It's certainly your right to ask about a product, but no vendor is obliged to answer, even if you demand it. If that means you don't buy a certain product, I'm sure the vendor has taken it into account already. 
Please respect Jon's decision to run his business the way he wants to.


----------



## berko

> You've asked your questions, and Jon has (politely and helpfully) responded four times.



im always impressed how jon manages to respond as polite, unemotional and buisinesslike as he does.


----------



## marc4pt0

My 2 cents:

When this set of diamond stones was first offered, I didn't get them as I thought the price tag was too high for my taste/need at the time. A little later I received a knife off BST that was sharpened using these stones specifically. I was Very impressed but by that time the initial buy had already passed.

When Jon offered these up again I jumped on them, as I believe several others did as well (most likely due to a similar 2nd hand experience like myself).

These stones remain my primary go to set. I have others I use for fun and to break into some different finishes, but as a whole the diamond set is the workhorse in my routine. 
I wished I had this set up years ago, back when my day consisted of a ton of knife work. These would've been nice to have on hand for certain. I had a natural knack of dishing the heck out of all my stones back then, and none gave an edge quite like these gems do, even in their pre-dish state. 
I started with Naniwa, then switched to the ZKramer line (Shapton?). After that I jumped on Dave's core set which really seemed to work for my needs. But all of those dished quickly on me. It wasn't until Dave's set that I really started to learn good stone maintenance etiquette. That's when I started to pick up a few Gesshin stones along with some others here and there. As I got better with my sharpening and stone maintenance I started to Want more from them, and more from the finish they gave. That's why I was so impressed by the edge that was sent to me on that fateful BST trade. That edge had everything I was looking for. A great combo of tooth and polish. By that time I had already spent well over $300 and still came up short on what I was looking for. So it was a no brainer for me when Jon offered up a second round of these. And that's EXACTLY why I was the the 5th person to post in this thread. I couldn't have been more pleased at having a second chance to score these.

I only offer this ramble to help those who are on the fence with these stones and their price tag. I honestly could care less if Jon was making 1% or 100% profit off these stones. For the price you get 2 stones, 2 nagura, and one stone holder. You also get Jon's perfect customer service, and I get a sense that these stones well last for a LONG time. We each have our own definition as to what a "good deal" is, and for my money this was it.

I haven't seen this yet, so this is only speculation, but if someone should find these stones not to their liking they could always post them on BST. I _ suspect_ they would sell extremely fast. Again, I haven't seen this yet, which should say something regarding customer satisfaction at the very least...


----------



## Smurfmacaw

JBroida said:


> Out of stock, but I can order more if there is enough interest



I'm interested.


----------



## Dardeau

CutFingers said:


> From direct experience I know that Japanese Knife Imports provides a courteous and compassionate service to customers. But I really think I deserve to know what the heck I am buying.



You are buying a 1k/6k set of splash and go waterstones, where the abrasive/active ingredient is diamond. They are a few mm thick, mounted on metal (aluminum?) bases, and include a nagura/cleaning stone as well as a stone holder, since they are a little shorter than your average stone. They cut quickly for the listed grit levels and leave a typically diamond stone finish with small scratches. The edge you are left with has a polished feel with enough bite to cut ripe tomatoes skins. These work well with all types of steel from Hitachi to PM.

That is pretty detailed. And Jon (not John, read for comprehension) has already told you all of that. Stop being a jerk.


----------



## lancep

Jon:

I will take a set if/when you decide to offer them again.


----------



## lancep

Cutfingers:

There are a variety of makers of this type of diamond water stone -- a quick search turns up Naniwa and also the I-Wood versions. If you're interested, perhaps you can order those and thereby know who makes the ones you get.

From my perspective, the only real reason to know who makes Jon's is to try to do an end-run around him and find them from a less expensive source, or for someone else to source them and start selling them. I can understand Jon's reluctance to share the maker, for these reasons if no other. We also don't know what the manufacturer has told him about sharing their name. Further, it may be the case that his product is in fact unique, due to his input during development and an exclusive right to the product developed therefrom; if so, sharing the maker's name will have little or any value.

At the end of the day, if you are going to consider this set, you need to rely on Jon's word, reputation, and experience, plus the feedback of others. Jon has invested his time, money, and expertise in locating, testing, and importing these stones (and perhaps also in developing them). Seems to me he is entitled to tell us what he chooses to with regard to their manufacturer. Do I wish they were less expensive? Sure. Would I love to be able to buy them from someone else for a lower price? Yes. Do I hope he is taking what I would consider a fair markup for his efforts? Yes. However, I also think he deserves to be compensated for his efforts.

One reality of the internet age is that it is easy to find multiple sources for products. Too many people go to a bricks and mortar store to test out something (electronics, clothing, books), then go online and order from the cheapest vendor. That is fundamentally unfair and unethical behavior, as they are relying on the investment of the bricks and mortar store to test things out, but not compensating the store for that investment.

Finally, for you to analogize this to a chef and his ingredients is not fair; the food you get at a restaurant is not just a function of what the ingredients are, it is result of the ratio of the ingredients (i.e the recipe) and the preparation of same. If Thomas Keller tells you the exact ingredients for a dish, does that mean you can replicate it exactly? I don't think so. So, his sharing the source of his ingredients does not substantially weaken the value he delivers nor the price he can charge.

However, if Thomas Keller has spent his time and energy identifying what he believes is the finest olive oil, and he imports it and puts his name on it, should you expect him to tell you from whom he sources it? 

Here is the ingredient list for Jon's stones: aluminum base, diamond, ceramic, coloring agent. Now, you or anyone else can replicate the stones.


----------



## ThEoRy

CutFingers said:


> Hey Theory...why don't you tell your customers in your restaurant that you can't tell them where the food came from because you might be priced out of the game? Is it a game to you to offer quality? I don't care how skilled you are as a chef, that is a pathetic answer.



Let me use your own example here. If I were to tell you the recipe for a dish that everyone else enjoyed, would that make you want to purchase it? 

Or what if another chef was listening and decided to copy me and sell a lesser version of it for less right next door?

Now two things happen: 
1. I'm being undercut by my competitor causing a decline in my sales.
2. Brand confusion sets in and people can associate my quality product with the lesser quality product weakening my brand.

That exact thing has indeed happened within this community before. Why do you think this very forum even exists? Why don't you ask Maxim how he feels about having his stones copied and his brand being used for others gain?


----------



## Smurfmacaw

CutFingers said:


> Do you or don't you do business with Naniwa Abrasives? Yes or no...simple question.
> 
> Am I going to take business from you? Heck no... I can't afford a manufacturing run of my own product.
> 
> Care to explain why your prestigious Japanese manufactures don't want to be affiliated with you? That sounds pretty absurd to me.



Two primary ways to protect intellectual property in the US, I assume most other countries are similar. Those two ways are patents and trade secrets. Generally accepted criteria is that if the product or process is easily reverse engineered then a patent is appropriate but you have to disclose everything about it and since there is no universal patents, you have to apply for and get a patent in every country that you may want to do business in or which may copy your product/process....don't know if you've ever done a patent application but it ain't cheap, or quick, or easy. If your product/process is not easily copied then you protect it as a trade secret. Having a trade secret doesn't protect against someone figuring out what you did and then competing but that is why it has to be difficult/impossible to reverse engineer.

Mr. Broida is under no obligation whatsoever to disclose his sources or processes any more than Coca-Cola or Kentucky Fried Chicken are required to disclose their secret sauce. If you don't believe the people on the board on the performance of the stones you are under no obligation to buy them. I'm pretty sure that Naniwa or the other stone manufacturers are not going to disclose exactly how they make their stones or where they source their materials so what is the problem? If Mr. Broida chooses to protect his trade secret appropriately then respect his decision and stop being prickly. Geez.


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## malexthekid

I just struggle with how who makes them can assist in any real way. Most of the major stone manufacturers we know of produce several lines with at least one that people help. 

So how exactly does Jon saying "is made by Naniwa or Shapton or Costco or a a group of midget fairies in the himilayas" provide you with information about the stone. 

No other reason than wanting to either source it cheaper or move into Jon's market.

If the 20 or 30 glowing reviews these stones have from forum members isn't enough to help you mane up your mind then nothing Jon can say or do will. So you are fishing for information for other reasons


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## Matus

I would say this thread has lost its tracks and could use some moderation.


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## JBroida

it seems there is a decent bit of interest for these again... i will start a new thread shortly


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## lancep

Look forward to getting in on this.


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## marc4pt0

Whew. Things be gettin hot up in here. Like Gordon Ramsey says, "SHUT IT DOWN!"


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## malexthekid

Sorry for being one of the ones to aid the derailing.

In my final comment get on this set of you are even half considering. They are great. I'm planning on take all my knives to them in the next couple weeks to give them some TLC


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## WildBoar

Honestly, the net effect is for me to take an interest in Jon's stone set.


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## knyfeknerd

There's no such thing as bad publicity right?


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## JBroida

i'm probably gonna get some flack for saying this, but i actually think everyone was a bit too hard on the guy. I appreciate that people came to my defense, but i also think that sometimes we have a tendency to go too far with it on this forum. I kind of like the "just be nice" approach, and then when people act rude, they stick out like sore thumbs and it becomes uncomfortable for them to be that rude in the face of people being polite to them.


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## marc4pt0

100% concurred


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## buttermilk

Guys, Jon is not taking any steps to hide anything from you. He's taking steps to hide things from me. Well, me and other vendors. Knowing who makes these is of no consequence or benefit to any end user. If he had branded these as Gesshin, or other, I don't think this would even be a conversation. You probably don't know who makes his Gesshin stones, and it doesn't matter. As one of the few people targeted in withholding this information, I both understand this completely and give my full blessing for him to continue withholding this.


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## AllanP

:tease: so will someone tell me what steel Heiji uses :running:


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## Smurfmacaw

AllanP said:


> :tease: so will someone tell me what steel Heiji uses :running:



No, I want to know the secret formulation of "Spicy" Shigefusa steel!


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## chinacats

Smurfmacaw said:


> No, I want to know the secret formulation of "Spicy" Shigefusa steel!



The secret is that they both use the same special steel


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## JBroida

buttermilk said:


> Guys, Jon is not taking any steps to hide anything from you. He's taking steps to hide things from me. Well, me and other vendors. Knowing who makes these is of no consequence or benefit to any end user. If he had branded these as Gesshin, or other, I don't think this would even be a conversation. You probably don't know who makes his Gesshin stones, and it doesn't matter. As one of the few people targeted in withholding this information, I both understand this completely and give my full blessing for him to continue withholding this.



honestly, just as much as i am protecting myself from competitors, i cant tell you the number of companies we deal with who ask us to not share anything about them because they dont want to deal with customers coming to them directly, non-japanese speaking customers, or just e-mails and phonecalls in general. Plus, a lot of non-japanese people have a tendency to look up company information and visit (either uninvited or after asking, but not realizing japanese people dont feel comfortable saying no, even when they really mean no).


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## marc4pt0

I remember reading here somewhere a while ago that people used to just send money and specs for knives they wanted to Japanese makers, completely unannounced. As in no prior conversations. Just blindly sent money and hoped for the best. What's more funny is it seems that after waiting they'd actually receive these knives they requested. I find that funny, and extremely crazy.


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## chipzaroy

Hey Jon!

Sorry if these questions have already been asked, but would I treat these stones just like I would any other water stone? Same amount of drying time, same drying conditions, etc? Any issues with cracking or anything like that? I'd like to get a set of stones that I can easily and safely bring to places, and these seem like a good choice. Thanks!


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## malexthekid

chipzaroy said:


> Hey Jon!
> 
> Sorry if these questions have already been asked, but would I treat these stones just like I would any other water stone? Same amount of drying time, same drying conditions, etc? Any issues with cracking or anything like that? I'd like to get a set of stones that I can easily and safely bring to places, and these seem like a good choice. Thanks!



They are pure splash and go. Hissy leave them to dry in out of the sun in a warm place. Doesn't take too long.


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## mckemaus

JBroida said:


> it seems there is a decent bit of interest for these again... i will start a new thread shortly



Count me in. I got a set last time and love them. They're my go to option when I want get things done. I want another set for a friend


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## JBroida

mckemaus said:


> Count me in. I got a set last time and love them. They're my go to option when I want get things done. I want another set for a friend



can you do me a favor and post this in the other thread, so it will be a bit easier to keep track of for me... thanks


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## TimH

Where is the other thread?


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## JBroida

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/24982-Diamond-Stone-Set-Group-Buy-Nov-2015


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## JBroida

chipzaroy said:


> Hey Jon!
> 
> Sorry if these questions have already been asked, but would I treat these stones just like I would any other water stone? Same amount of drying time, same drying conditions, etc? Any issues with cracking or anything like that? I'd like to get a set of stones that I can easily and safely bring to places, and these seem like a good choice. Thanks!



they are splash and go in the most literal sense... no soaking to worry about, and you can literally wipe them dry when you are done. No cracking, not hard to care for. They are easy to travel with. Honestly though, you are close enough by that you can just come in and check them out in person when you have time, and that might be best.


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## seryk20

I'm in


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## SousVideLoca

seryk20 said:


> I'm in



I'm like...



JBroida said:


> can you do me a favor and post this in the other thread, so it will be a bit easier to keep track of for me... thanks


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## chipzaroy

Thanks Jon. Will do!


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