# Difference Between Yu Kurosaki Knives?



## shaolinkaws (Sep 5, 2021)

I’m interested in buying a yu kurosaki sg2 knife, but I’d like to understand the difference between the various production series. For example, the Senko line seems to be the cheapest sg2 line, while the Fujin line is $100-$200 more expensive, and the Shizuki is in the middle. Why the difference in price if they all use sg2 for the steel? Are they made differently? Or is the sg2 in the Fujin line higher quality than the others?


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## Infrared (Sep 5, 2021)

The Senko line is the cheapest because it is the only one that's not hammer forged.

As for the Shizuku and Fujin, the SG2 steel will most likely be the same in all aspects. The only difference aside from the aesthetics might be the geometry (spine thickness, blade height, etc.).


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## Pie (Sep 5, 2021)

There’s some choil shot and grind comparisons between 3 different lines floating around somewhere on the internet. From what I remember there is noteworthy variation, but I’m also sure things have changed since that thread. Of course I don’t remember the details..


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## shaolinkaws (Sep 5, 2021)

Infrared said:


> The Senko line is the cheapest because it is the only one that's not hammer forged.
> 
> As for the Shizuku and Fujin, the SG2 steel will most likely be the same in all aspects. The only difference aside from the aesthetics might be the geometry (spine thickness, blade height, etc.).



thank you for that. when you say its not hammer forged, you mean its not forged by a handheld hammer but instead with a hammer machine? or some other method entirely? im new to high quality knives so this might be a silly question lol.


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## brimmergj (Sep 6, 2021)

There is a VG10 version and an AS version of the Fujin series. SG2 is used in a few other model lines, but not for a Fujin line


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## M1k3 (Sep 6, 2021)

shaolinkaws said:


> thank you for that. when you say its not hammer forged, you mean its not forged by a handheld hammer but instead with a hammer machine? or some other method entirely? im new to high quality knives so this might be a silly question lol.


No hammered finish.


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## Infrared (Sep 6, 2021)

shaolinkaws said:


> thank you for that. when you say its not hammer forged, you mean its not forged by a handheld hammer but instead with a hammer machine? or some other method entirely? im new to high quality knives so this might be a silly question lol.





In the video above you can see him hammer forging. The Shizuku and Fujin line are made this way.

The Senko line is roll forged, meaning they are thinned and tapered with an automated machine.


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## Delat (Sep 6, 2021)

brimmergj said:


> There is a VG10 version and an AS version of the Fujin series. SG2 is used in a few other model lines, but not for a Fujin line



Looks like there’s an SG2 version of the Fujin that’s hammered only (no damascus like the VG10). I have the Fujin AS and like it a lot.






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## big_adventure (Sep 6, 2021)

I have a Senko bunka and it's a fine little knife. It's my daughter's favorite prep knife and gets used a lot. Edge retention is truly excellent.


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## brimmergj (Sep 6, 2021)

Delat said:


> Looks like there’s an SG2 version of the Fujin that’s hammered only (no damascus like the VG10). I have the Fujin AS and like it a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I either never came across the SG2 version or just ignored them altogether in my quest for my AS version. Probably the latter and then I go and make a fool by thinking I know things. Maybe my wife is right...
Can't speak to the SG2, but the AS is quite nice


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## P3454NT (Sep 14, 2021)

Does this mean that the Senko line is of lower quality due to it being roll forged opposed to hand/hammer forged?


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## btbyrd (Sep 14, 2021)

It's made in a less labor intensive way. On Kurosaki's roll forged knives, the spine is of uniform thickness down the full length of the blade until you get to the grind near the tip. The geometry on these knives comes pretty much entirely from how they were ground; they start with a piece of machine-rolled metal of uniform thickness and grind the sides down to add the primary bevel.
Kurosaki's hammer forged blades are thicker near the handle and then thin out as you move toward the tip. This is a product of how the knife was hammered. The sides of the blade near the spine are not of uniform thickness either, and for the same reason. Hammer forged knives begin as a piece of bar stock of uniform thickness, which is heated and smashed under a power hammer and drawn out to the approximate shape of the final blade. The final shape is then cut (or stamped) out and then ground down to add the primary bevel. The geometry of these blades is a product of both forging and the grind.
Which one is "better"? I think neither is better; they're just different.


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## P3454NT (Sep 14, 2021)

Th


btbyrd said:


> It's made in a less labor intensive way. On Kurosaki's roll forged knives, the spine is of uniform thickness down the full length of the blade until you get to the grind near the tip. The geometry on these knives comes pretty much entirely from how they were ground; they start with a piece of machine-rolled metal of uniform thickness and grind the sides down to add the primary bevel.
> Kurosaki's hammer forged blades are thicker near the handle and then thin out as you move toward the tip. This is a product of how the knife was hammered. The sides of the blade near the spine are not of uniform thickness either, and for the same reason. Hammer forged knives begin as a piece of bar stock of uniform thickness, which is heated and smashed under a power hammer and drawn out to the approximate shape of the final blade. The final shape is then cut (or stamped) out and then ground down to add the primary bevel. The geometry of these blades is a product of both forging and the grind.
> Which one is "better"? I think neither is better; they're just different.


Thanks for that detailed explanation. I knew a roll forged is somewhat more ‘automated’ than a hammer forged in that it’s less labor intensive. I guess I’m just curious to if there would be a difference in quality. I’m guessing it’s all really a personal preference? And also a “you get what you pay for” type scenario?


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## Delat (Sep 14, 2021)

I don’t think there’s any objective difference in quality. Hand or hammer forging isn’t intrinsically better than roll forging or stock removal. 

Here’s a spine shot of my Fujin. Definitely has the typical thickness at the neck, but not much distal taper at all. I wasn’t even aware the Senko was roll forged but would have no hesitation with owning one if I preferred it to the Fujin for whatever reason.


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## chefwp (Sep 14, 2021)

If I can help complicate things... There is also the line he makes for Masakage, called "Shimo"


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## P3454NT (Sep 14, 2021)

Delat said:


> I don’t think there’s any objective difference in quality. Hand or hammer forging isn’t intrinsically better than roll forging or stock removal.
> 
> Here’s a spine shot of my Fujin. Definitely has the typical thickness at the neck, but not much distal taper at all. I wasn’t even aware the Senko was roll forged but would have no hesitation with owning one if I preferred it to the Fujin for whatever reason.
> 
> View attachment 142340


Thanks for the info and photo. It’s definitely changing the way I assumed roll forging is of lesser value/quality. I think there was just something at the thought that roll forged is “automated” that had put me off a little. Lol But so far, the most ppl seem to love Kurosaki’s knives regardless of what series it is.


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## P3454NT (Sep 14, 2021)

chefwp said:


> If I can help complicate things... There is also the line he makes for Masakage, called "Shimo"


That’s interesting… so it’s just a Damascus type pattern?? Never knew that existed. Lol


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## silylanjie (Sep 14, 2021)

He also has a Rainbow Damascus line called Houou or Phoenix and he's currently working a batch HAP40 for November.


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## chefwp (Sep 14, 2021)

P3454NT said:


> That’s interesting… so it’s just a Damascus type pattern?? Never knew that existed. Lol


I guess, but it is quite a unique look. Whenever I use mine I think about what my then-10-year-old daughter said about it. She said "It looks like trees and people sanding on the river bank as water flows by." And now that is what I also see...


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## P3454NT (Sep 14, 2021)

chefwp said:


> I guess, but it is quite a unique look. Whenever I use mine I think about what my then-10-year-old daughter said about it. She said "It looks like trees and people sanding on the river bank as water flows by." And now that is what I also see...
> View attachment 142355


Ha. That’s really cool. Now I can’t unsee that either. Lol


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## P3454NT (Sep 14, 2021)

Also… I notice a “roll forge” type machinery in Blenheim Forge’s latest Insta video. Am I safe to assume that’s be the likely process/technique for most roll forged knives, including Kurosaki’s Senko line?

IG video here:








Blenheim Forge on Instagram: "Here’s Jon stretching out a billet for his upcoming special edition Gyuto on the McDonald rolling mill. This tool is great for drawing out steel without distorting the nickel damascus pattern"


Blenheim Forge shared a post on Instagram: "Here’s Jon stretching out a billet for his upcoming special edition Gyuto on the McDonald rolling mill. This tool is great for drawing out steel without distorting the nickel damascus pattern". Follow their account to see 1803 posts.




www.instagram.com


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## P3454NT (Sep 14, 2021)

So um... I caved in and purchased this...








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And potentially may cancel on this (Senko series)








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## coffeelover191919 (Nov 24, 2021)

P3454NT said:


> So um... I caved in and purchased this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


why would you cancel the Senko knife for the Shizuku?


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## P3454NT (Nov 25, 2021)

coffeelover191919 said:


> why would you cancel the Senko knife for the Shizuku?


I think it's purely a personal preference. In this instance, hammer forged vs roll forged.


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## Delat (Nov 25, 2021)

P3454NT said:


> I think it's purely a personal preference. In this instance, hammer forged vs roll forged.



It is kinda cool to know that at some point a blacksmith was pounding on two stacked knives, one of which was yours.


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## coffeelover191919 (Nov 25, 2021)

P3454NT said:


> I think it's purely a personal preference. In this instance, hammer forged vs roll forged.


are there any pros and cons of roll forging?


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## P3454NT (Nov 25, 2021)

coffeelover191919 said:


> are there any pros and cons of roll forging?


I think that's a personal preference as I'd assume the difference would be minimal. (I'm assuming someone else would be able to answer better than I can)


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## btbyrd (Nov 26, 2021)

Roll forged blades are less expensive to produce and are more uniform. But the blades bear less of an imprint from the maker since they’re not hand forged.


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## coffeelover191919 (Nov 26, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> Roll forged blades are less expensive to produce and are more uniform. But the blades bear less of an imprint from the maker since they’re not hand forged.


are they weaker in any way?


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## tally-ho (Nov 26, 2021)

coffeelover191919 said:


> are they weaker in any way?


It depends and *this* might give you more informations.


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## Se1ryu (Jul 5, 2022)

P3454NT said:


> Thanks for the info and photo. It’s definitely changing the way I assumed roll forging is of lesser value/quality. I think there was just something at the thought that roll forged is “automated” that had put me off a little. Lol But so far, the most ppl seem to love Kurosaki’s knives regardless of what series it is.


Kurosaki knives always good with great fit& finish. One of my favorite Blacksmith . On every website Yu Kurosaki knives are SOLD OUT. Maybe couple of senko left


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## stringer (Jul 5, 2022)

coffeelover191919 said:


> are they weaker in any way?


Flipper value.


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## mpier (Jul 5, 2022)

Posted this on another tread if anyone is interested


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## Yaniv18 (Jul 5, 2022)

Infrared said:


> The Senko line is the cheapest because it is the only one that's not hammer forged.
> 
> As for the Shizuku and Fujin, the SG2 steel will most likely be the same in all aspects. The only difference aside from the aesthetics might be the geometry (spine thickness, blade height, etc.).



Sorry buddy but all of Kurosaki knife are hand foraged !!! Some models are a little bit more expensive because of the finish/steel but that’s pretty much the difference.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jul 5, 2022)

Yaniv18 said:


> Sorry buddy but all of Kurosaki knife are hand foraged !!! Some models are a little bit more expensive because of the finish/steel but that’s pretty much the difference.



The Senko line is roll forged not hand hammered.


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## Echotraveler (Sep 2, 2022)

We use Kurosaki Senko on our kitchen. We use first batch 210, 240, and 270 gyutos. 
120, 150 pettys, and 270 suji. 

All are excellent professional tools, this is the first time i hear about the roll forged...but id say Kurosaki San should totally continue doing it. 

Im noticing something about this Senko series. It seems theres 3 versions of this knoves. All my Senko come from what seem like a first batch/form. 

Then he made the western handle series

Then a traditional japanese handle that integrates the western handle curved spines. 

For example my 240mm gyuto has the same spine profile of the 210mm gyuto, straight. 

Now i see the 240mm gyuto on the site and it has a curved spine. And more agressive tips.

Id like to hear more about this differences. 

Also, IMO Kurosaki, did great on heat treatment for this knives, they sharpen up fast and remain sharp for 2 weeks of daily use.


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## Se1ryu (Sep 3, 2022)

Yaniv18 said:


> Sorry buddy but all of Kurosaki knife are hand foraged !!! Some models are a little bit more expensive because of the finish/steel but that’s pretty much the difference.


All knives made by Yu Kurosaki are hand Forged except Senko line. That's the only line that he can offer with less price but with the same great performance.

Senko line is a roll forged just like @HumbleHomeCook said


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## miggus (Sep 3, 2022)

Echotraveler said:


> Now i see the 240mm gyuto on the site and it has a curved spine. And more agressive tips.
> 
> Id like to hear more about this differences.


Hey, I can't give you much background info, but I noticed this, too.
Is it possible that this also has to do with the line of knife? There is Senko and Senko-Ei. As far as I understand, Senko is the "conservative" knife line, and Senko-Ei is more modern. It has the "fluid" design and what I'd call a K-Tip - more pointy, a straight line from the top. 

Senko 240 Gyuto (not my image)







Senko-Ei 240 Gyuto. That's the one I recently bought.







I can see how this shape can look a bit quirky and awkward, but I found it also "progressive", especially with the K-Tip. To me, it's a modern and confident-looking knife, and one that really stands out from the crowd. Normally I prefer less shiny, more rusty-simplistic knives.

But what makes it really good in my book it that it works very well. All the features have a practical impact. The K-Tip is nimble and quite thin, flying through onions. The downward curve near the handle means more knuckle clearance, at the heel the knife is 55mm, which would make it a bit heavy if the spine were straight. Also there is a bit more to hold on to while pinch gripping. The flashy finish gives quite good food release and also helps with the grip. Everything combines into a high-performing knife, not just a pretty one.

The caveat is that it is not a rustic workhorse-type. It is a lighter knife, that needs to be treated carefully, especially the thin tip. But it is almost as grabby as a laser with some more weight behind it and much better food release. I enjoy using this a lot and ordered the petty as well.

Don't let the pic fool you, though. It doesn't have a true flat spot but a gentle curve. That has some advantages, but if you want a true nakiri within your gyuto, this knife doesn't do that.


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## Se1ryu (Sep 3, 2022)

Senko Ei is a newest senko line from Kurosaki san


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## miggus (Sep 3, 2022)

Se1ryu said:


> Senko Ei is a newest senko line from Kurosaki san


I think it is a seperate line besides Senko - or does Senko-Ei replace Senko?


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## Se1ryu (Sep 3, 2022)

miggus said:


> I think it is a seperate line besides Senko - or does Senko-Ei replace Senko?


I mean Senko ei is a new series of senko. I think it's a same line with a different blade shape and an added k-tip (new series).


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