# Best stones for sharpening vg10



## labor of love

Im currently taking a hard look at a couple at a couple knives Ive wanted for awhile. Terrific grinds, F&F, blade shape even nice handles. The only turnoff has been that theyre vg10. The maker has a really great reputation too.
So if you were me what stones would you choose to tackle vg10? What progression? Maybe harder stones? I know more deburring and stropping than whats normal for carbon helps a lot. Anyway, thanks for any tips yall may provide.


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## Mute-on

Beater 1200 followed by Rika 5000. They do tend to load up a bit more than with carbon, so clean off more regularly. 
Angle control on the 5000 seems more critical with VG10 to avoid rounding the edge, but thats probably just me. I suspect you will have no such problem 

Cheers 

J


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## panda

Shapton glass 500 or gesshin 600 s&g, don't go any higher just strop on higher stone.


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## labor of love

At the moment Im thinking maybe cerax 700, maybe shapton 2k(already own the 1k) and probably use my gesh 4k as a finisher.


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## panda

Vg10 does not hold higher grit well, stick with 2k at most.


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## labor of love

I could stop at maybe a shapton 2k, maybe a gesh 2k....strop on a 4-5k.


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## JBroida

depends on the vg-10... i can think of at least one maker who does vg10 in a way that i really enjoy and dont find hard to sharpen or incapable of dealing with my normal 6k edge.


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## chinacats

So, what's the knife?


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## labor of love

chinacats said:


> So, what's the knife?



Something really nice &#128526;. Ill spill the beans after I pull the trigger.


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## panda

Ken onion


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## daveb

Kamikoto


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## Jville

You guys are ridiculous. It's a shun classic, obviously.


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## K813zra

I agree with panda, more or less. I take most VG-10 to my Shapton 1k, which is more or less an 800 grit stone and lightly strop on the Shapton 2k at most. It isn't that I feel that VG-10 does not take a more refined edge but rather that it seems to lose its "bite" on the board very quickly if you give it such an edge whereas it holds onto it better off of a medium stone. Simply my opinion as a home user though. (I am a bit biased too because I am not fond of the dulling curve of stainless steel in general.)


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

@JBroida any VG10 that YOU would even sell that won't hold 6k?

I've been badmouthing on VG10 a lot in the past given experience with [email protected] kind of stuff, admitted openly...


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## chinacats

Tanaka VG10 is pretty good but I'm guessing that's not what lol is buying.


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## Pensacola Tiger

labor of love said:


> Im currently taking a hard look at a couple at a couple knives Ive wanted for awhile. Terrific grinds, F&F, blade shape even nice handles. The only turnoff has been that theyre vg10. The maker has a really great reputation too.
> So if you were me what stones would you choose to tackle vg10? What progression? Maybe harder stones? I know more deburring and stropping than whats normal for carbon helps a lot. Anyway, thanks for any tips yall may provide.



The JKI 1k/6k diamond stones are my standard for VG-10.


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## labor of love

chinacats said:


> Tanaka VG10 is pretty good but I'm guessing that's not what lol is buying.



A masashi and 2 old school gengetsus jumped in the way but as soon as I purchase Ill reveal the knife Im talking about. Consider this, if you love literally everything about a knife from measurements, grind quality, weight, handle...etc etc...I dont think its a big deal to spend maybe 2 extra minutes a week on the stones.


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## labor of love

Pensacola Tiger said:


> The JKI 1k/6k diamond stones are my standard for VG-10.



Thanks rick. I still remember that killer edge you put on a kochi for me a couple years ago with the diamond stone combo . If I end up with enough knives that are slow to sharpen Ill likely go that route.


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## labor of love

Okay 4 minutes. But you know what I mean.


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## geoff_nocon

A yoshikane? They make great vg10 knives


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## Benuser

I need finer stones to complete the deburring.


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## Nemo

Benuser said:


> I need finer stones to complete the deburring.


How fine do you deburr VG10?


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## Benuser

Stropping and deburring on Chosera 3k, last deburring on Junpaku Snow-white 8k.
Noticed a cleaner edge after the 8k than after the Chosera 5k.


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## Nemo

Benuser said:


> Stropping and deburring on Chosera 3k, last deburring on Junpaku Snow-white 8k.
> Noticed a cleaner edge after the 8k than after the Chosera 5k.


Thanks for your perspective & experience.

Does your final deburring on Junpaku include some stropping strokes, or only sideways strokes (along the length of the edge)?


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## Benuser

Nemo said:


> Thanks for your perspective & experience.
> 
> Does your final deburring on Junpaku include some stropping strokes, or only sideways strokes (along the length of the edge)?



With VG-10, no stropping on the Junpaku, only the lightest longitudinal strokes.


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## Nemo

Benuser said:


> With VG-10, no stropping on the Junpaku, only the lightest longitudinal strokes.


Interesting. Thanks.


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## Benuser

You're welcome, Nemo, my pleasure. With VG-10 you have to abrade the burr. If instead it breaks off, it leaves a terribly damaged edge and you have to start all again.
And it is a great candidate for a wire edge. So I do not strop again after deburring, which is what I do with other steels.


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## Nemo

That makes sense.


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## panda

labor of love said:


> Okay 4 minutes. But you know what I mean.



You say that now, until it adds up and you've finally had it. &#129315;&#129315;&#128514;&#128514;


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## labor of love

Benuser said:


> Stropping and deburring on Chosera 3k, last deburring on Junpaku Snow-white 8k.
> Noticed a cleaner edge after the 8k than after the Chosera 5k.



I dont think Ill be in the mood to pick up another 8k stone ever again. I wonder if I could have similar results by stropping on leather.


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## masibu

I haven't got it any more but I used to finish on a superstone 2k which is anything but hard. Dry stropping on this worked out pretty good for me for touch ups and I would drop back to the super stone 400 for a proper sharpen. You could do the same with the cerax. I left both my superstones with my old housemate as she was just starting out in the kitchen and I found these to be the easiest stones to get polished yet toothy edges on knives when I was learning. I've thought about buying another one but they are so expensive these days for me. I would want one without the base as well.

I now use the sigma power 2000 but its debatable if its "better" or not. Its a lot harder and faster than the superstone and leaves a pretty aggressive finish. I imagine the shapton 2k would be even more so


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## Keith Sinclair

Sharpened & deburred lots of Shuns on the Gesshin 1K Xlarge. Use newspaper for any residual burr after a lateral sweep on the stone. That's fine for home sharpening, but if at work show students lighter strokes and intro to stropping on stone. I find even with shuns newspaper just a few measured strokes works well.

Bought a hammered Damascus from CKTG 5 yrs. ago. was a Kurosaki Megumi even put a custom handle on it. Liked the random hammer work on the blade was my first Damascus blade. The VG10 feels better than the shun. They have gone way up in price since I bought mine now a 240mm is 300.00+ and the 210mm 264.00. Still have that knife don't use it should probably sell it.

The Tanaka VG10 both the Nashiji and Damascus blades is said to be 62hrt it's the best VG10 I have used & sharpened. Maybe partly because of grind, edge retention much better than a Shun.

Craig gesshin soakers work with VG10 you may not need another stone. Have also used JKI 1K diamond stone alone puts on a functional edge.


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## Ivang

Shaptons and choseras both do the trick.


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## captaincaed

For the newer folks, could you describe the subjective/objective difficulties sharpening VG-10? I keep my friend's Shun in good shape with a Kingston 1k/6k. Do I just think that I'm doing a good job, but I'm missing finer detail?
Thanks for any answers, love coming here to learn.


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## HRC_64

captaincaed said:


> For the newer folks, could you describe the subjective/objective difficulties sharpening VG-10? I keep my friend's Shun in good shape with a Kingston 1k/6k. Do I just think that I'm doing a good job, but I'm missing finer detail?
> Thanks for any answers, love coming here to learn.



what have you compared it too? maybe that will help you with a reference


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## labor of love

Its like you read my mind. Im very interested at the moment in gesshin soakers. 
Either the 6k or maybe just a chosera 5k.


Keith Sinclair said:


> Sharpened & deburred lots of Shuns on the Gesshin 1K Xlarge. Use newspaper for any residual burr after a lateral sweep on the stone. That's fine for home sharpening, but if at work show students lighter strokes and intro to stropping on stone. I find even with shuns newspaper just a few measured strokes works well.
> 
> Bought a hammered Damascus from CKTG 5 yrs. ago. was a Kurosaki Megumi even put a custom handle on it. Liked the random hammer work on the blade was my first Damascus blade. The VG10 feels better than the shun. They have gone way up in price since I bought mine now a 240mm is 300.00+ and the 210mm 264.00. Still have that knife don't use it should probably sell it.
> 
> The Tanaka VG10 both the Nashiji and Damascus blades is said to be 62hrt it's the best VG10 I have used & sharpened. Maybe partly because of grind, edge retention much better than a Shun.
> 
> Craig gesshin soakers work with VG10 you may not need another stone. Have also used JKI 1K diamond stone alone puts on a functional edge.


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## JaVa

The Sigma select II Stones eat up all kinds of SS (VG10 included) all day long super fast and with smile on it's face (and mine). That's why I bought them in the first place and they didn't disappoint.


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## labor of love

JaVa said:


> The Sigma select II Stones eat up all kinds of SS (VG10 included) all day long super fast and with smile on it's face (and mine). That's why I bought them in the first place and they didn't disappoint.



Yep. Not always the easiest to find for shipping to the states besides toolsfromjapan.


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## Kingkor

I have to say I'd reccomend getting an aizu, it'll blow your mind by how good of an edge it produces on stainless knives. You can talk to Badgertooth about getting one I'm sure he can hook you up


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## Badgertooth

Aizu is pretty tasty on AEBL and XHP (Mario flavour). But,
Full disclosure, Ive never sharpened VG10 on an Aizu. And the only thing I could test it on is a Tojiro parer which is only gonna tell you so much.


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## K813zra

VG-10 sharpens up just fine on my Aizu.  R2 as well for that matter.


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## Benuser

captaincaed said:


> For the newer folks, could you describe the subjective/objective difficulties sharpening VG-10? I keep my friend's Shun in good shape with a Kingston 1k/6k. Do I just think that I'm doing a good job, but I'm missing finer detail?
> Thanks for any answers, love coming here to learn.



It's all about proper deburring, from the first stone on. That's the main difficulty in sharpening VG-10. With basic carbon steel you may weaken the burr -- often called chasing it -- and it will detach at some moment. Not so with stainless with big carbides. If it were to come off -- as does Krupp's 4116 -- it would leave behind a damaged, blunt edge. With VG-10 it normally won't come off. 
You really have to abrade the burr with very light, basically longitudinal strokes, moving only a very little. When you can't get it smaller it's time to go to the next stone. Intermediate stones are helpful.
As the burr is difficult to get removed, it may form a so-called wire edge, a burr on top of the edge. Scary sharp, but very fragile. It breaks after a few cuts and will take with it a part of the edge. A new full sharpening is needed.


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## Matus

Accidentally I was sharpening 2 VG10 Shun Classic knives yesterday that were pretty dull. I had a double sided Bester 1000/6000 at my disposal and a JNS synthetic blue aoto. I first did both knives on the 1000 side and finished one on 6000 and one on the aoto. I had no problem to get the desired results.


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## Paraffin

My wife's Shun Premier santoku is VG-MAX steel which I believe is just a small variation on VG10. I have another knife that doesn't get much use, a Shun dual core (VG10/VG2 alternating pattern weld).

The normal progression I use with all my other knives works well enough on these two knives, doing almost all the work on a Gesshin 2k soaker, starting with heavier pressure and moving to lighter strokes. Then finish on a Gesshin 6k soaker for final burr removal. A few light trailing strokes followed by longitudinal strokes, to make sure the burr is gone and no wire edge left. 

I'm not the world's best sharpener, but this works for me. It just takes a bit more time working the VG-MAX and VG10/VG2 on the 2k stone than with my carbon steel knives.


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## labor of love

What is happening to the edge when you use longitudinal strokes? Why do this over just more regular stropping ?


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## Paraffin

labor of love said:


> What is happening to the edge when you use longitudinal strokes? Why do this over just more regular stropping ?



I think the theory is that longitudinal strokes remove remaining burr without just making more of a wire edge, like you'd get with stropping. Also, it's done at a fairly high angle to the stone, almost like setting a micro-bevel. At least that's how I do it, I know there are other approaches to finishing and burr removal.


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## HRC_64

labor of love said:


> What is happening to the edge when you use longitudinal strokes? Why do this over just more regular stropping ?



I don't understand this terminolgy either...

Long strokes along the edge that align the edge
in case it has any waviness (from being so thin)?

I think maybe referencing a motion that is 
trying to put a shear force on the burr?


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## Mucho Bocho

Is he talking about the J-stroke and the across the stone stroke. Yes both are good for deburing but caution is advised not to run over the apex.


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## Paraffin

Right, it's what Jon calls a lateral stroke across the stone for deburring, in the second half of this video:

[video=youtube;XnhIKOX6Rco]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnhIKOX6Rco&t=0s&index=18&list=PLEBF55079F53216AB[/video]


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## panda

this is new to me also, what is going on at the apex while going straight across the stone that is different from regular stropping?

i no longer do edge trailing, instead cut the edge into the stone alternating each stroke with less and less pressure each time to finish. i find this method is quite effective at disintegrating the burr right on the stone. still pull through with cork though for good measure.


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## Paraffin

panda said:


> this is new to me also, what is going on at the apex while going straight across the stone that is different from regular stropping?



The abrading force against the burr changes from a stropping angle that continues to create more burr, to one at a 90 degree angle that strips it off. Or something like that. Drawing the edge through cork abrades the burr at the same 90 degree angle to the bevel.


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## panda

i am trying to visualize the difference of the contact area. so is this correct: regular stropping = edge is hitting the stone at a 45deg motion, straight across = edge is making contact at a 90deg angle? i'm guessing the difference is that 45deg there is force that causes burr to keep moving back toward spine (rolling over) vs 90deg burr is being pushed back into the apex causing it to fall off


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## labor of love

I do basically the same thing Jon does with the sponge but with a work kitchen towel. Works really well.


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## panda

wait you use this to remove burr??






i've used my apron at times to do same thing 

also, i recall ikarashi being my favorite for VG10 and other stainless.


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## chinacats

I use same longitudinal strokes to deburr everything...works especially well on other people's stainless. But I use a stone...


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## slickmamba

damn I should read through this, I have a hell of a time sharpening my shun nakiri


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## labor of love

White kitchen towels...they make a for a very toothy finish


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## Kippington

It's so good to read how other experienced sharpeners go about removing the burr. I always forget about how many ways there are to do it other than my own (micro beveling/cutting the water).

Have you tried Shapton Glass for VG-10? It's the steel I first learned sharpening on, so I can't understand why it's considered difficult. Instead, other things are just really easy!


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## captaincaed

Benuser said:


> It's all about proper deburring, from the first stone on. That's the main difficulty in sharpening VG-10. With basic carbon steel you may weaken the burr -- often called chasing it -- and it will detach at some moment. Not so with stainless with big carbides. If it were to come off -- as does Krupp's 4116 -- it would leave behind a damaged, blunt edge. With VG-10 it normally won't come off.
> You really have to abrade the burr with very light, basically longitudinal strokes, moving only a very little. When you can't get it smaller it's time to go to the next stone. Intermediate stones are helpful.
> As the burr is difficult to get removed, it may form a so-called wire edge, a burr on top of the edge. Scary sharp, but very fragile. It breaks after a few cuts and will take with it a part of the edge. A new full sharpening is needed.



Benuser, thank you very much for talking a bit about this and getting some chat going. I have taken to the method Jon Broida describes in that video recently, and I have to admit I like it. I have two schools of thought in my head. One is the Bob Kramer "strop on leather" school, the other is of course the lateral deburring on a stone. I've noticed that if I sharpen at a very acute angle (12-15 deg), or don't use a microbevel, my friend's edge tends to chip out rather easily, as you described.

Has anyone tried using an Arkansas stone with VG-10 or a comparable stainless? I ask because you can do edge leading (as opposed to trailing) strokes on those stones without worrying about damaging the face of the stone. That might be a good way to de-burr cleanly. Thoughts?


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## chinacats

Benuser said:


> It's all about proper deburring, from the first stone on. That's the main difficulty in sharpening VG-10. With basic carbon steel you may weaken the burr -- often called chasing it -- and it will detach at some moment. Not so with stainless with big carbides. If it were to come off -- as does Krupp's 4116 -- it would leave behind a damaged, blunt edge. With VG-10 it normally won't come off.
> You really have to abrade the burr with very light, basically longitudinal strokes, moving only a very little. When you can't get it smaller it's time to go to the next stone. Intermediate stones are helpful.
> As the burr is difficult to get removed, it may form a so-called wire edge, a burr on top of the edge. Scary sharp, but very fragile. It breaks after a few cuts and will take with it a part of the edge. A new full sharpening is needed.



I like to take the freshly sharpened knife and bang it a couple times on the cutting board...anything not done right will fail immediately...if it holds up to that I'm done.


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## K813zra

panda said:


> wait you use this to remove burr??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i've used my apron at times to do same thing
> 
> also, i recall ikarashi being my favorite for VG10 and other stainless.



Agreed. My Ikarashi makes a great stone for stainless in general.


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## captaincaed

chinacats said:


> I like to take the freshly sharpened knife and bang it a couple times on the cutting board...anything not done right will fail immediately...if it holds up to that I'm done.



Rough but effective, I like it!


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## Chef Doom

I would use a cinder block. I heard rumors that old rubble from 9/11 works wonders on vg10.


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## Chef Doom

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @JBroida any VG10 that YOU would even sell that won't hold 6k?
> 
> I've been badmouthing on VG10 a lot in the past given experience with [email protected] kind of stuff, admitted openly...


 You can't expect people to give up all of their magic tricks.


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## labor of love

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ts/bontenunryu-240mm-stainless-damascus-gyuto


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## labor of love

geoff_nocon said:


> A yoshikane? They make great vg10 knives



Yes.
These 2 knives in particular is why I started this thread.

https://www.aframestokyo.com/yoshikane-sujihiki-tamamoku-210mm-vg10-21010.html

https://www.aframestokyo.com/yoshikane-sujihiki-10-12-inch-270mm-vg10-bl101227011.html


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## HRC_64

deburring those longe suji's tho


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## labor of love

Im no stranger to beautiful things which are also high maintenance &#128526;


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