# Sharpening with ZKramer SG2?



## StephenYu (Nov 23, 2016)

Hi guys, I went to SLT tdy to try the ZKramer SG2 8 inches chef knife. When I ask about the ease of sharpening of the blade, I was told that due to the 101 layers structure, each layer is so thin that the blade will be easy to sharpen unlike most SG2s...just want to know if that is true?

Anyone with experience in sharpening a ZKramer SG2?


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## chinacats (Nov 23, 2016)

StephenYu said:


> Hi guys, I went to SLT tdy to try the ZKramer SG2 8 inches chef knife. When I ask about the ease of sharpening of the blade, I was told that due to the 101 layers structure, each layer is so thin that the blade will be easy to sharpen unlike most SG2s...just want to know if that is true?
> 
> Anyone with experience in sharpening a ZKramer SG2?



I think they're making **** up because they have no idea...that said, see no reason it should be that difficult to sharpen. 

Edit to say that the SLT website mentions core steel is sg2 so guessing the layers are just cladding anyway so what they said would only be relevant to thinning.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Nov 23, 2016)

Disregard all the misinformation you got from SLT. No, what the salesperson said is NOT true. 

In my experience, SG2 is no harder to sharpen than any other PM steel.


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## ThEoRy (Nov 23, 2016)

SG2/R2 is relatively easy to sharpen regardless of cladding. Besides the cladding doesn't even start until the lamination line. You won't be moving up the blade that high anytime soon unless you are thinning. Even then, it's not the "thinness" of the layers that makes it easier to sharpen, it's the softness of the cladding.


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## LucasFur (Nov 23, 2016)

I just sat with Jude from tosho ( resident sharping guru here in Toronto) this weekend while he was sharpening my kramer SG2 - "Yup its steel." was basically his reaction. 
I'll ask his thoughts about the de-burring. 
and i have touched it up myself, its fine on the stones. Its not hardened like a takamura which is more work to attain a similar edge. 
Heat treat is where the differences lie for the easy/hard to sharpen debate. 

some un-scientific ratios that I just made up on the spot with limited knowledge are.
similar HRC White 1 to Blue 1 is about %35 more time on the stones for similar edge. not saying blue is difficult im saying white takes an edge way fast. (blue has 30% longer edge life?) 
zKramer 52100 to zkramer SG2 maybe %25 more time on the stones for similar results. not saying SG2 is difficult im saying 52100 takes an edge nicely . (sg2 has %20 longer edge life?) 
Zkramer SG2 to Takamura SG2 maybe %30 more time on the stones for similar results. but takamura keeps its edge longer. ( takamura has 30% longer edge life) 
Takamura SG2 to Sukenari ZDp maybe %15 more time to sharpen for similar results. (zdp has same ini15% more edge life, but the initial bity edge drops off quicker, with a 

* these ratios in my head may change as i use my knives more. and are probably in the ball park. If you disagree I would love to hear it. If we have enough of these comparisons people can make educated decisions about what they want to buy. For me I love AS and SG2. sorry Mr. M. Carter.


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## StephenYu (Nov 27, 2016)

LucasFur said:


> I just sat with Jude from tosho ( resident sharping guru here in Toronto) this weekend while he was sharpening my kramer SG2 - "Yup its steel." was basically his reaction.
> I'll ask his thoughts about the de-burring.
> and i have touched it up myself, its fine on the stones. Its not hardened like a takamura which is more work to attain a similar edge.
> Heat treat is where the differences lie for the easy/hard to sharpen debate.
> ...



Thanks for the reply! now I get the idea of how hard it is to sharpen the zkramer sg2...
On the other hand, I tried both the Zkramer sg2 and ZKramer essential and they feel almost identical on hand...do u think the sg2 is worth it?


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Nov 27, 2016)

These values could be spot on ... if you were taking Erasmus way too literally and trying to make meat of a whetstone  I think the infamous CATRA test uses just that methodology (cutting abrasive materials)...

ZDP 15% harder to grind than SG-2? 15 times more like it 

And I suspect if you put the OOTB edge geometry of a Takamura on a ZDP knife you will end up with something AT LEAST as chipping prone and delicate


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## LucasFur (Nov 28, 2016)

stephan: The essential is thinner at the spine if memory serves me correctly. but the SG2 is more rigid and the edge lasts a lot longer. and Micarta feels and looks a lot better in the hand then mat plastic. Your honestly comparing 2 knives that are designed to be in different price brackets. and i have not sharpened the essential line, but i will soon. 

Lifeby: I dont agree with 15x more difficult. on my higher grit synthetics i agree its harder. but on Jnats and low grit synthetics i think 15% is somewhat accurate. though i have only used my sukenari ZDP. 
-- * and i totally agree in regards to the OOTB Takamura geometry on a zdp knife would chip and be delicate. BUT I bought 3 Takamura's and all 3 have chipped and were delicate OOTB. So I don't know what you are trying to get at.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Nov 29, 2016)

You're comparing edge retention, unclear if comparing at a normalized angle or ootb like.... The Takamura red is said to have (and likely has) 9dps OOTB btw, no wonder it is like that


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## LucasFur (Nov 29, 2016)

more or less the same angle on the stones .. its free hand so i dont know exactly, but i have 240 gyuto both takamura and sukenari and they are roughly the same height at the heel and are sharpened at roughly the same angle. 
I think "harder to sharpen" is a misnomer, in that not many steels are genuinely hard to sharpen. Its just a Time vs Edge Achieved equation.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Nov 29, 2016)

Got a Sukenari-made ZDP that seemed to have a straight-V 12 dps on it OOTB, and found it rather chippy... and hardly managed to change it to 10+micro (still ain't perfect)


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## malexthekid (Nov 29, 2016)

LucasFur said:


> more or less the same angle on the stones .. its free hand so i dont know exactly, but i have 240 gyuto both takamura and sukenari and they are roughly the same height at the heel and are sharpened at roughly the same angle.
> I think "harder to sharpen" is a misnomer, in that not many steels are genuinely hard to sharpen. Its just a Time vs Edge Achieved equation.



This.. and even if we say 50% longer to sharpen (to exaggerate for this sake) we are talking less than a minute when you are semi proficient at sharpening


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Nov 29, 2016)

Just noticed that I might have inadvertently compared experiences from what approached thinning ("don't like the angle on the ZDP so... ... ... ... expletive deleted tough steel....") vs sharpening ("let's get the Takamura sharp again... ah, already done!") ... and also misunderstood the comparison as "valid for any stone"...


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