# Handle Making- Metal Spacers



## madmotts (Dec 17, 2021)

I've recently made a couple wa handles- hidden dowel, octagonals. I'd like to add metal spacers and wondering if anyone had some recommendations about where to get the material, how to cut it, at what point of finishing it do you assemble it with the handle and how to finish it.


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## Jaeger (Dec 17, 2021)

Hy,
An easy way to get some brass or copper sheets is eBay, for example.
I don't know what tools you have for cutting metal. You can cut thin sheets with a metal scissor. I have a small one from Hazet. It works perfect for me. With this small scissor i can cut sheets up to 1mm thickness. For thicker pieces, use a bigger scissor  
You can also use a Dremel if you have. 

I cut the pieces roughly out, drill the hole, grind to the lines of the octagonal (for example), assemble everything and finish all the parts together. 

You can work on your handles the same as without the metal. If you use unstabilized wood, don't sand it wet. Metal shavings can leave black marks in the wood when it becomes wet! Sand it dry, wipe off the chips, give it some oil/wax and that's it


Cheers Fabian


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## cotedupy (Dec 17, 2021)

Washers.

They come in all sorts of sizes, various different materials, are already drilled, and cost f all. I use them all the time. 

(Kudos to @birdsfan for that one!)


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## Jaeger (Dec 17, 2021)

That's a good idea


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## madmotts (Dec 17, 2021)

@cotedupy awesome. I'll hit HomeDepot today. so I don't currently have a grinder, does a belt sander work or how do you advise getting them down to size?


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## tostadas (Dec 17, 2021)

madmotts said:


> @cotedupy awesome. I'll hit HomeDepot today. so I don't currently have a grinder, does a belt sander work or how do you advise getting them down to size?


When sanding metal, especially with power tools, be wary of heat generated. It can get very hot


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## cotedupy (Dec 17, 2021)

madmotts said:


> @cotedupy awesome. I'll hit HomeDepot today. so I don't currently have a grinder, does a belt sander work or how do you advise getting them down to size?



Yeah - they're great! 

I only use a handheld belt sander for the initial shaping, laid on it's side (mine is a 610 x 100mm).

I epoxy the handle blanks together and then shape on belts from there. With metal in it, as @tostadas said, you have to go pretty slow. If it heats up too much - you'll break the epoxy bond. No biggie, you can just re-epoxy it, but annoying.


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## gregfisk (Dec 17, 2021)

I left you a lengthy message in response to your pm. I didn’t talk about where to get or how to cut the material though. Aluminum flashing is available at Home Depot and is pretty inexpensive. Sheet metal shears work great for thin material. I cut thicker metal on a small portable bandsaw mounted to a table. You can buy other sheet material at a local metal supply store or on Amazon. Brass, aluminum, copper etc. something I didn’t mention in my response to your pm is to make sure you rough up and clean the metal before gluing it. A roughed up surface will stick much better than a smooth one. Heat is the number one issue with keeping metal from coming unglued, no matter how good the epoxy you are using is.


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## Johanshi (Jan 9, 2022)

I cut my metall in a bandsaw with blades that handle both metal and wood. Then I drill a hole in the speyser and glue everything togheter and shape it on a beltgrinder as I would with a wood only handle.
I use polyurethane glue which is not heat sensitive as epoxi. Attaching latest one as example, which will go onto a Kurosaki Houou bunka.


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## gregfisk (Jan 9, 2022)

That’s a nice handle. Could you share the glue that you’re using? I’m always looking for a better heat resistant glue since I use a lot of metal in my handles.


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## Johanshi (Jan 9, 2022)

gregfisk said:


> That’s a nice handle. Could you share the glue that you’re using? I’m always looking for a better heat resistant glue since I use a lot of metal in my handles.


Try "gorilla glue"


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jan 9, 2022)

Gorilla is not nearly as strong as good epoxy. Not even close. Although most people don't use WA handles as pry bars, so that's not relevant.

Pretty much all knife making materials can be found on AliExpress. I cut metal spacers with angle grinder — not an accurate way but allows me to cut large sheet in just minutes


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## gregfisk (Jan 9, 2022)

I’ve tried gorilla glue and it’s no where near as strong as the epoxy glue I’m currently using. Even with the heat issues I have yet to find anything stronger. Thanks for the information though, it’s good to see what other people are using and I appreciate you answering my question.


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## georgemvg (Jan 9, 2022)

My first handle had a cooper spacer. Epoxy did not hold, so I tried a black rubbery CA, but I have used also pins for the handle spacers to keep them together.
I haven't used a grinder, so I do not know how it holds at high heat...


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## captaincaed (Jan 9, 2022)

No gorilla glue for any reason, ever, if you need a tight fit. It expands and produces a very poor-quality joint.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jan 10, 2022)

Gorilla glue (as pretty much any other PVA) works well for wood. And pretty well if you need to glue horn and wood. It will expand and produce measurable amounts of heat during curing if you apply excess glue. If you apply just a minimum amounts — it works well. But epoxy IMO is the better choice anyway.


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## Johanshi (Jan 10, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> No gorilla glue for any reason, ever, if you need a tight fit. It expands and produces a very poor-quality joint.


Well, in that I disagree. I have made +80-90 handles and very rarly any issues with visible joints. As said before, dont use excess and also use clamps that are good.


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## Johanshi (Jan 10, 2022)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Gorilla is not nearly as strong as good epoxy. Not even close. Although most people don't use WA handles as pry bars, so that's not relevant.
> 
> Pretty much all knife making materials can be found on AliExpress. I cut metal spacers with angle grinder — not an accurate way but allows me to cut large sheet in just minutes


I was unsure when testing Gorilla, but after needing to use exsessive force to break the joints I decided that it was strong enough for wa handles, if not as "icanhaschzbrgr" said use it as a pry bar .


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## Matus (Jan 10, 2022)

I had very bad luck using epoxy (G-Flex) to glue metal spacers (especially nickel silver) to other materials. The glue just would not hold. It was very frustrating to have the whole handle fall apart during finishing ... twice


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## Johanshi (Jan 10, 2022)

Matus said:


> I had very bad luck using epoxy (G-Flex) to glue metal spacers (especially nickel silver) to other materials. The glue just would not hold. It was very frustrating to have the whole handle fall apart during finishing ... twice


I used Gorilla when I grind fat aluminum speysers and it does not break. And i have no issues with bad joints.....


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## captaincaed (Jan 10, 2022)

Johanshi said:


> Well, in that I disagree. I have made +80-90 handles and very rarly any issues with visible joints. As said before, dont use excess and also use clamps that are good.View attachment 159771


Well I'll be dipped. More power to you then!


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## Johanshi (Jan 10, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> Well I'll be dipped. More power to you then!


 may the force be with you to!!


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## captaincaed (Jan 10, 2022)

I'm coming from the cabinetry perspective, and it's a no-go there, but sounds like it has a place here!


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 23, 2022)

Metal can be a weak point in handle due to lack of good adhesion. Also harder to work with. Plenty other materials glue better. Sorry jmo.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jan 23, 2022)

In order to get better adhesion you can scratch surface before glueing. That makes sense for all materials, not just metals. Use coarse file on metals, rasp or low grit sandpaper on wood/horn and coarse surface will help adhesion.

But pins or dowels are a much stronger solution when it comes to strength. I tried both and found dowels to be much easier to make compared to pins.


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## Kippington (Jan 23, 2022)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> In order to get better adhesion you can scratch surface before glueing. That makes sense for all materials, not just metals. Use coarse file on metals, rasp or low grit sandpaper on wood/horn and coarse surface will help adhesion.
> 
> But pins or dowels are a much stronger solution when it comes to strength. I tried both and found dowels to be much easier to make compared to pins.


I tried nothing (no pins or dowel), and it failed some medium testing. Also tried pins and it failed as badly as the having nothing.
The dowel was the best by a long way, out of the three.

The method of a burned-in (friction-fit) tang also compliments the dowel method, as the tang acts as a giant pin/dowel that holds the entire thing together.
I can't speak for an oversized tang gap filled with epoxy - Never tried that one.


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## rocketman (Jan 23, 2022)

A great adhesion promoter is sand blasting... I have seen several studies which measured adhesion to enamel. 
When scratched with a carbide burr, not bad, but same surface sand blasted, infinitely better.


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## branwell (Jan 25, 2022)

Not sure I've ever found a fool proof method of bonding metal spacers to wood but find its not all that important given the whole assembly will be mounted, glued up and held ridged by the tang...... unless you are doing a burn fit and then ummmmm. 

Anyways. I just cut slots in the hole in the spacer for mechanical grip and ruff sand them.


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## Illyria (Jan 25, 2022)

Kippington said:


> I tried nothing (no pins or dowel), and it failed some medium testing. Also tried pins and it failed as badly as the having nothing.
> The dowel was the best by a long way, out of the three.
> 
> The method of a burned-in (friction-fit) tang also compliments the dowel method, as the tang acts as a giant pin/dowel that holds the entire thing together.
> I can't speak for an oversized tang gap filled with epoxy - Never tried that one.



Dowels are what I use, too. Haven't had an issue with handles breaking since I switched dowels.


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## gregfisk (Jan 25, 2022)

I should also clarify that I ultimately ended up installing two 1/16” dowels through my handles to hold them together while shaping them. By doing this it made my life much easier since I didn’t have to worry near as much about the handles coming apart. Once the tang is installed with the epoxy filling up the hole all is good.


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## TB_London (Jan 31, 2022)

This was a big reason why I came up with using a hidden dowel back in 2011. Creates a mechanical join, increases surface area for glue, simplifies construction and helps keep handles falling apart if using spacers. Penny washers was my first source of nearly ready made spacers
It also indexes all of the pieces so if it does overheat and come apart in shaping is easy to clean and reglue with the same alignment.


Another tip is if cutting thin sheet to make spacers it’s worth sandwiching it between some offcuts when drilling and sawing to reduce the amount of buckling.


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## gregfisk (Jan 31, 2022)

Since my current handles are many many layers of different materials I glue everything together first and then drill the center hole. I also drill two 1/8” holes for small dowels or metal rods on either side. Then the center hole gets filled with epoxy and the tang. I use a jig that holds the block of layers together while I’m drilling the holes on my drill press. This keeps the pressure off of them while I’m drilling. I’ve also done the dowel down the center tang hole but with smaller handles for smaller knives like a paring knife there isn’t enough room for adjustment with a dowel installed. I found it easier to leave the center hole open for adjusting the handle when gluing it up. If you’re wondering why I don’t just drill a larger tang hole it’s because it doesn’t leave enough surface area for glue and it also puts a lot more pressure on the joints while drilling. Smaller holes are much more manageable when the handle is nothing but spacers of different materials all glued together.


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