# Getting started on making cooking knives...any tips?



## mlau (May 4, 2015)

Hi fellow knife nuts!

I'm thinking about making some kitchen knives...so that I can give them as gifts.

I know too many people who have crappy knives, and don't know better (mostly ladies).
After getting my first and second truly great knives (Heiji 240 wa-gyuto, Calton cutlery paring knife), I want to make some blades fitted for people as gifts--it's really something, like using a road bike for the first time instead of huffies. Even my talented sushi-chef friend is a bit frustrated because he has been switching to stainless for hygienic reasons (pesky food inspectors) and they are horrible on his stones.

Do you have any tips?

I admire Marko's dedication to his craft, and his explosive growth of talent. I'd like to copy him by studying other maker's blade profiles to get a "vocabulary" and eventually develop my own style. Unlike Marko, I'm not sure if I'll ever sell my knives. However, I want to create a custom fitting system based in the person's grip, style, height, cuisine. I want to make beautiful things that work--and later make better surgical tools!

For my first project, I'd like to make a mono steel santoku (per the request of my sushi knife friend and gum surgeon buddy).
I'm thinking of making it with AEBL via draw filing, and sending it out to Peters heat treating.
Do you recommend a particular maker to start with? What should I keep in mind?
I'm tempted to order a santoku from Heiji or Shigefusa as a example to study the blade grind/profile.

Any recommendations?

-Matt

ps. About myself, I'm a broke dentist (just started my business, most/all my money goes to staff/adv training/better equipment). Mom was a hand therapist/occupational therapist/hospital ergonomicist/classically trained chef. Dad is a structural engineer/former pro butcher. Oh, and I sort of build guitars. I used to make jewelry.


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## daveb (May 4, 2015)

Welcome Malau, Suggest your next step be to review the terms of use for the forum and the rules specific to the Shop Talk section. Off the top of my head I think you've broken all of them.


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## chefcomesback (May 4, 2015)

Make sure to check guidelines before you get into trouble


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## mlau (May 4, 2015)

I apologize to everyone here.

I will look over the guidelines.

In the meanwhile, please delete my post.
I got overexuberant and carried away. Sorry.


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## mlau (May 4, 2015)

My apologies.

I never meant any marketing (passive or active). Also, I'm in the wrong section. I should have posted in the hobbyist section.


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## chinacats (May 4, 2015)

Welcome!


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## WildBoar (May 4, 2015)

haha, welcome to KKF!

Keep reading as much as you can, and hold/ handle as many knives as you can. Befriend KKF members in your area and see if they are willing to meet up and let you fondle their collection. Reach out to some of the makers you admire and ask them about visiting and learning from them. Carter has a program where you can take classes from him, although it may run $5-6k. Some like Devin have been known to allow passionate future makers to visit for a 1-2 day tutorial.


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## Mrmnms (May 4, 2015)

Guitars and jewelry . My kind of people. You might consider restoring and re handling nice vintage stuff to get a feel . They make great gifts and not quite the same commitment in time and equipment.


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## mlau (May 4, 2015)

Mrmnms said:


> Guitars and jewelry . My kind of people. You might consider restoring and re handling nice vintage stuff to get a feel . They make great gifts and not quite the same commitment in time and equipment.



I appreciate the warm welcomes.

At first, I didn't know that I'd inadvertantly broke rules and stepped on toes!
I just realized how clueless that I was about truly great knives, when I was looking at a few really bad ones...sort of like Jiro's saying: "to make good food, one must eat good food." It'd be nice to have someone say--"kid, just buy X knife."

Do you know of any KFF members in the SF bay area?

I'd love to handle what a truly great knife is. 
If they let me, I'd also like to make a resin replica using my dental materials, take photos and measurements. 

Thanks!


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## mlau (May 4, 2015)

Mrmnms, thanks for the suggestion.
It makes more sense than spending several hours drawfiling a slab of AEBL, with unpredictable results.

Which knives should I look out for?


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## James (May 4, 2015)

haha taking an impregum impression of a knife? genius! With regards to knives, a great knife to someone may be an ok knife for someone else. It depends heavily on your personal preference. 

Bernal Cutlery is in SF so I would go check some of their inventory, buy one you like and study it. IIRC Marko handled and sold plenty of knives before he started making them.


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## gic (May 4, 2015)

You might want to buy some old carbons from thrift shops and ebay, rehandle and refinish them. I learned how to freehand sharpen by working on some resonably nice ground, but quite dull, specimans. Similarly, am learning how o use a bench grinder by dealing with some really horrible ones. Soon I will learn to rehandle by working on them


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## mlau (May 6, 2015)

It's funny that you mention impregum.
I was just chatting about impression materials with him. 
He loves impregum, and I prefer hydrocolloid (with impregum for implant impressions).

I was just going to take an alginate impression of the sabatier handle and pour it in vacuum mixed die-stone green.
For other's knives, I was going to take a silicone impression, so as not to tarnish the blade or leave a residue.

Regarding Bernal Cutlery--I paid a pilgrimate to there about a year ago.
I felt guilty after spending an hour and half handling all their knives, so I bought a 100 mm Ashi Hamono petty.
While they had great knives--nothing was quite perfect (but I'm pretty anal-retentive).

I just came back from the office 15 minutes ago!
I was nitpicking on models and patient charts.

-Matt

ps. I have a NOS sabatier blank that I have no idea what to do with. It is about 1/16" thick at the edge of the blade and appears to have forge-scale. I'm not sure if it's heat treated already, but it's supposed to be a pre-WW blade from the Thiers-Issard factory. Can I post a picture and have people comment on it? I'm a little scared to start draw-filing it, as the bolster would get in the way.

pps. On the way home, I dropped by my sushi-chef's restaurant. While my skills are amateurish compared to the others here, I think that he has a pretty low bar of what to expect. He had a deba wrapped in fishing line! I hope to restore it (after much practice) to honor his grandfather.


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## mlau (May 6, 2015)

James said:


> haha taking an impregum impression of a knife? genius! With regards to knives, a great knife to someone may be an ok knife for someone else. It depends heavily on your personal preference.
> 
> Bernal Cutlery is in SF so I would go check some of their inventory, buy one you like and study it. IIRC Marko handled and sold plenty of knives before he started making them.



It's funny that you mention impregum by name. Are you a fellow dentist? Most people just think of all the goop as the same thing.
Any thoughts on impregum soft? I'm thinking of buying a bunch of it for open-tray impressions.

Regarding the knife preference things--I totally agree. As a guitar-nut, I like to take people to a great guitar shop (or barring that, guitar center) to try out a bunch of guitars without looking at price or age. A 2003 Lowden may suit one person. Another may like a Martin OO from 1920. Someone else may want a Southern Jumbo...

I'm slowly building a knife vocabulary to match: Sabatier profile vs Wustoff. But I haven't had the funds to understand the subtleties between Shigefusa and Mizuno or Sugimoto.

Aaargh! Long day. Tired. Going to sleep.

Thanks for all the input! 

ps. What tools do you recommend buying for handle making? I have a 14" bandsaw, 9" tablesaw, dremel, messy router, and a drill press.
I'm thinking of just getting a small belt/disk sander, but it seems that some people recommend a 2x72" belt sander? Also, the Kalamazoo 1x40" seems to get good press.
I hope to buy something one I can draw a paycheck from my practice--or get my overdue tax refund.


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## mlau (May 6, 2015)

btw, I don't want to spam the boards...or step on more toes.
For the most parts, I'll go back to lurking (aside from the occasional "kudos" to people.

For additional questions, should I start a new post, or ask a question here?


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## James (May 7, 2015)

Haha, just a student so not really qualified to answer your question. When doing impressions for my prosthodontics class, I did find that it's better add some light body to the occlusal surfaces right before taking the impressions to capture the finer details. You'll definitely want a belt sander; I've only made handles so far and a beltsander is a godsend.


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## mlau (May 7, 2015)

Which program?

There are a number of great dental schools in your area.
At UCSF, we used polysulfide for dentures (stinky, but works).
The impregum I tried was the two phase, hand mix stuff--didn't use the pentamix stuff.

I plan to use green die stone for the body, with holes for the PVS. Then, I'll use PVS adhesive. Then Heavy body PVS, with an ultra light body wash. I've got a bunch of expired PVS anyways, not using it on patients!

Any thoughts on specializing?

Btw, I don't recommend practicing in Cali unless you have a sugar momma or are willing to work Bakersfield/Central Valley.
Hawaii is also pretty bad for dentists.


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