# Unpopular opinions



## captaincaed

We all have em.
I sometimes think the forum is in protectionist mode trying to preserve the value of their knives for later sale. Anyone up for a little honesty, offered in the spirit of peace and love?

So here's an opportunity to beef or brag a little. What's surprised you in a good or bad way?

I'll go first.

Don Nguyen petty was way too thick for a petty. Doorstop. Early work of his.

Delbert Ealy is too thick, has edge recurves, and the full damascus couldn't hold an edge.

Xerxes tip is too thin, and I think was overheated from grinding, leading to discolored steel and a snap. 

Mac is undervalued as a whole package. There are better blades and cheaper beaters, but this damn thing can't be killed. And it's comfy. And it holds up to poly boards.


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## ian

Mazaki is Meh-zaki.

Although the recent batch from Carbon is better.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

While I love original Kramers, other knives performed just as well at a fraction of the price.


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## daveb

Dare I mention Shig?

Yawn.


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## madelinez

Naniwa Diamond stones are garbage (still have one sadly).

Catcheside knives have awesome heat treat and geometry.

Oh and my Kato Shinpei Kiridashi is bad at slicing sweet potato


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## SolidSnake03

Only a handful of Western makers make something that cuts equal or better than most of the Japanese knives in the $200-300 price range. And by handful I man like....3-4 that I've personally tried and it's been a lot.

Catcheside and Carter and Cris Anderson are all really good cutters

Ealy grinds are thick as hell and you might as well buy a $100 German.

Fowler is ruler flat and borderline unusable unless you only ever chop, every one I've had has had the tip broken as well. 

Shig Gyutos really don't cut that well, their Nakiri's are badass and cut excellent but their gyuto grinds are meh at best.

Very few of the recent Workhorse trend knives are done well, they just wedge more overall and in terms of ease of cutting your average middleweight Tanaka (Ginsan or Sekiso) smokes them.


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## captaincaed

ian said:


> Mazaki is Meh-zaki.
> 
> Although the recent batch from Carbon is better.


I must have won a lottery with mine. Maybe my TF too.


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## M1k3

Molecular gastronomy.


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## captaincaed

SolidSnake03 said:


> Only a handful of Western makers make something that cuts equal or better than most of the Japanese knives in the $200-300 price range. And by handful I man like....3-4 that I've personally tried and it's been a lot.


I've come full circle on this one too. They may make great steel and handles but only a few can grind.

Weird, the CJA I tried didn't stand out to me.


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## SolidSnake03

captaincaed said:


> I've come full circle on this one too. They may make great steel and handles but only a few can grind.




Yeah took me a lot of money and time but so far I can say the C's have it down really well but outside that it gets really dicey as to what performs at all.

C's being Carter, Catcheside and Cris (Anderson)


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## captaincaed

That's a good rule of thumb. Still need to try me a Catcheside...


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## madelinez

I'd add Raquin to the list as well.


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## captaincaed

madelinez said:


> I'd add Raquin to the list as well.


Hey now. Unpopular opinions only.


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## madelinez

captaincaed said:


> Hey now. Unpopular opinions only.



Well in that case, Shigs aren't great performers although I'll admit the yo handled kitaeji ones are impressive in terms of forging.

From a purely functional perspective there's a lot of makers that are 20-60% cheaper that maker better knives.


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## tchan001

Buying TF is buying a lottery ticket for great performance unless you buy something already tuned up via BST from eager TF project managers who are aiming for another project.


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## ian

My other strong opinions, some popular, some not, some based on lots of evidence, some not:

Catcheside profiles are whack. (Although I still want to get another one at some point... There’s just something about them...) Yoshikane and Gengetsu profiles are too flat. Heiji grind is good, as long as you use it for the right things. Shun VG10 is just fine for what it is. Stainless cladding sucks. Stainless cladding is ok. Ebony handles suck. So does burl, and any handle with blue or green on it should be immediately burned. (Except Tim Rowland's PA handle, which was classy.) Burnt chestnut 4ever. Carter Wh#1 steel is underwhelming. Damascus is for dumbass kids. And @Kippington’s parrot(?) feather is the coolest maker’s mark.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

ian said:


> Damascus is for dumbass kids.


I have been called worse.


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## soigne_west

Nakiri’s are stupid


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## Carl Kotte

soigne_west said:


> Nakiri’s are stupid


This was going to be my contribution. I agree, wholeheartedly.


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## ian

Cretins.

Edit: I retract my post, so that Carl is not sad. This thread is ripe for conflict! Shall we succumb to our base instincts and allow our inner sneering ghouls to wake? Or shall we come together and celebrate our diversity of opinions and the beauty of the world of knives? All you brothers and sisters, unite!


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## Mikeadunne

Love this thread so far


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## zizirex

This forum is all about 49mm min height is a must, Ebony and rosewood handle are sucks, Sanjo maker for life, Konosuke and Takefu maker is not good because it is promoted in the other FORUM, Shig and Kato are overrated but it makes the most money. VG-10 is not good because it doesn't hold an edge and we only want to sharpen as nice as a white steel knife.
Wedge and 'Braaappp' on hard root vegetable is a pleasure.


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## soigne_west

Wouldn’t be cought dead with any knife made in tekafu


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## daddy yo yo

Katos aren’t that good.


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## wind88

Kato WH is meh for me in terms of steel (average retention) and performance.


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## captaincaed

soigne_west said:


> Nakiri’s are stupid


All square knives are for squares


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## daddy yo yo

Mizuno Honyakis aren’t that impressive.


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## captaincaed

daddy yo yo said:


> Mizuno Honyakis aren’t that impressive.


Wedge monster or backseat driver would be my guess.


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## ian

zizirex said:


> This forum is all about 49mm min height is a must,



Yes! Although really it’s 51mm as a lower limit. Get over your short knife phobias, people!


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## M1k3

Search function.


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## ian

Honyaki is no different than monosteel in performance, it’s just a wavy line.

(Ok, it helps the maker straighten the blade and it indicates it’s the height of a maker’s craft or something blah blah.)


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## M1k3

ian said:


> Honyaki is no different than monosteel in performance, it’s just a wavy line.


But I can't see a full moon over Mt Fuji on mono!


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## ian

M1k3 said:


> But I can't see a full moon over Mt Fuji on mono!



i have a sharpie you can borrow.


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## Twigg

The nashiji kurouchi finish on my Mazaki petty is an affront to my eyes. I am satisfied with the performance though.


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## M1k3

ian said:


> i have a sharpie you can borrow.


You win!


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## Ruso

Heiji grind is awful for anything taller than the wide bevel
Toyama is just meh for the price.
Watanabe has bad QC and he does not care to make it right
I do not know how Shapton Glass stones got such a good rep around here, mediocre at best for most steels kitchen knifes are made from
Takeda arrowhead grind is good

I love the thread!!


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## zizirex

ian said:


> Yes! Although really it’s 51mm as a lower limit. Get over your short knife phobias, people!


see, 99% people here have a obese hands or finger


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## ian

zizirex said:


> see, 99% people here have a obese hands or finger



Either that or a cutting technique that’s straight up and down or something. Put some pull in your strokes and your short knives will feel wonderful!


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## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Search function.


Search/Ignore combo stone


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## M1k3

ian said:


> Put some pull in your strokes and your short knives will feel wonderful!


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## billyO

captaincaed said:


> We all have em.


I'm cool.... (does that count?)

My apologies if this I'm now considered a troll.


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## parbaked

You only need one gyuto...


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## ian

That’s not anyone’s opinion, though, so how can it be an unpopular opinion?


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## soigne_west

LOL


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## wind88

We need more threads like this instead of every new knife is the best knife ever


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## Barclid

Most of the people on this forum suck at cutting, talk out of their ass and obsess over the stupidest ****.


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## Barclid

This is very cathartic. I feel better already.


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## Ruso

Please gents, back on track! 

Aogami >> Shirogami


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## Barclid

People on this forum also don't thin their knives enough and care too much about knives that "look" BNIB rather than really using them and making them theirs.


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## Barclid

"Food release" is overrated and over valued.


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## Southpaw

Masamoto KS is awesome


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## Barclid

TF's heat treat is just as inconsistent as his grinds.


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## brotondo

M1k3 said:


> But I can't see a full moon over Mt Fuji on mono!


I'll show you my full moon bb


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## Barclid

The obsession over who was the blacksmith of your particular knife is insulting to every other craftsman involved in the process.


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## Carl Kotte

ian said:


> That’s not anyone’s opinion, though, so how can it be an unpopular opinion?


I first thought about posting a bunch of blow torch opinions - only these opinions aren’t mine (still they would be unpopular opinions) and Since I didn’t want Anyone think they were mine I didn’t. All that to say, what you said above is incorrect. And ... all you really need is a breadknife. (Slowly backing away)....


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## soigne_west

Tell us how you really feel Barclid


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## Barclid

Some of the best food I've ever had was made using the shittiest knives I've ever seen.


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## PappaG

Life will be ok if your sharpening stone comes with a base.


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## Barclid

The reason you like that JNat for your edge is probably because you a) suck at evaluating edges or b) are not good at deburring on faster cutting stones.


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## Carl Kotte

Barclid said:


> Some of the best food I've ever had was made using the shittiest knives I've ever seen.


This is very true. I’ve had the same experience: both eating at restaurants and working in kitchens. I’ve worked under great chefs with great cooking and knife skills... who used terrible knives. But, the bread knife was long, and toothy


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## Barclid

Yoshiaki Fujiwara has a green scrubby finish and should not be fetishized the way it is.


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## Barclid

Carl Kotte said:


> This is very true. I’ve had the same experience: both eating at restaurants and working in kitchens. I’ve worked under great chefs with great cooking and knife skills... who used terrible knives. But, the bread knife was long, and toothy


Entire dishes at some restaurants I've worked at were made using ingredients cut with a bread knife.

And it was ****ing delicious.


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## Barclid

Your Yoshiaki Fujiwara Sakimaru Takobiki you bought for $3800 probably has a recurve in it.


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## Corradobrit1

SolidSnake03 said:


> Yeah took me a lot of money and time but so far I can say the C's have it down really well but outside that it gets really dicey as to what performs at all.
> 
> C's being Carter, Catcheside and Cris (Anderson)


Add another C. Comet. The two I've used have been exceptional cutters, with great grinds, HT and F&F


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## Barclid

You are not a metallurgist. Except when you are. But you're probably not.


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## Carl Kotte

Flexible knives rule


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## Barclid

Your micro bevel is someone else's primary bevel.


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## brotondo

Can we remove Carter from the Cs honestly. They are fine knives but their prices are way over inflated.


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## Xenif

Nakiri are the best knives.


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## Barclid

Xenif said:


> Nakiri are the best knives.


Nakiri are no-tip-having-ass-gyutos.


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## Twigg

Blue really is the best color of patina.


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## PappaG

Unless you have considerable experience sharpening knives, or at least 3+ years experience, you probably should not be giving out any advice and/or there should be a requirement that you state your have no real experience before you nevertheless give any advice


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## esoo

Bunkas are better than Nakiri


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## esoo

Stamped knives don't suck


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## brotondo

People talking about how great a HT is compared to others without knowing any smith's actual process or knowing anything about matsci/metallurgy is hilarious

(TFTFTFTFTFTFTF)


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## Barclid

Your obsession with a big "flat spot" leads new knife makers to make suboptimal knives.


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## Barclid

"[x/y/z steel/knife] doesn't take a good edge" means "I need to go back and practice my sharpening."


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## brotondo

Your meaty claws aren't that big so you dont need 52mm+ blade height for clearance


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## Southpaw

Barclid said:


> Some of the best food I've ever had was made using the shittiest knives I've ever seen.


Lol I didn’t start collecting knives until I was forced to retire from running kitchens. So ya I feel that!


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## Corradobrit1

brotondo said:


> Can we remove Carter from the Cs honestly. They are fine knives but their prices are way over inflated.


Yes, please. Carters/Mutekis are mass produced.


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## Corradobrit1

Nakiri are created from all the gyutos that broke when quenched.


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## brotondo

PappaG said:


> Unless you have considerable experience sharpening knives, or at least 3+ years experience, you probably should not be giving out any advice and/or their should be a requirement that you state your have no real experience before you nevertheless give any advice


But but nobody has that kind of experience, that's why Ryky is such a source of holy knowledge. I heard he had 4 years, like wow, I could only imagine. Give that man a PhD already


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## captaincaed

I think @Barclid and I need to get a beer. 

Stock removal is a great way of making knives. Every forged knife ends with some stock removal, and forging can really gork the steel if it's not done right (source: my armchair expert dumbass and a few weeks in a blacksmithing class burning barstock)


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## Southpaw

brotondo said:


> But but nobody has that kind of experience, that's why Ryky is such a source of holy knowledge. I heard he had 4 years, like wow, I could only imagine. Give that man a PhD already


And on that note....
Paper test doesn’t prove ****!


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## captaincaed

Corradobrit1 said:


> Yes, please. Carters/Mutekis are mass produced.


Unpopular opinion : having a good business model doesn't make you a bad knife maker.


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## Barclid

Shun is not "faux dammy" whatever that means. It's still pattern welded.


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## Barclid

captaincaed said:


> I think @Barclid and I need to get a beer.
> 
> Stock removal is a great way of making knives. Every forged knife ends with some stock removal, and forging can really gork the steel if it's not done right (source: my armchair expert dumbass and a few weeks in a blacksmithing class burning barstock)


You're welcome in NYC any time. Hit me up.

After this COVID **** is done anyway.


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## Barclid

Your wallet can buy you knives but it can't buy you meaningful insight or knowledge about those knives. Having one doesn't mean ****.


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## Corradobrit1

captaincaed said:


> Unpopular opinion : having a good business model doesn't make you a bad knife maker.


Have you seen some of the MS series dammy with cladding extending into the edge?


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## daveb

M1k3 said:


> Search function.



There's a Search Function?


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## captaincaed

Barclid said:


> You're welcome in NYC any time. Hit me up.
> 
> After this COVID **** is done anyway.


Come escape to the PNW. We have hops. So many goddamn hops. 
UO: more hops improves your beer only up to a point. Except Hop Venom. That **** is magic.


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## Lars

People who don’t know what they like yet still order custom knives only to complain about them.


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## Barclid

Lars said:


> People who don’t know what they like yet still order custom knives only to complain about them.



In that same vein...

You don't need specific dimensions and if a couple mm here or there is the deciding factor in whether you can live with a knife or not, you need to put down the wallet and take up gardening or something... chill out.


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## Barclid

That tiny little scratch on your knife is fine. If you were actually using the knife it'd be even more scratched.


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## Barclid

Collecting knives you never use is like collecting instruments you can't play.


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## Barclid

soigne_west said:


> Tell us how you really feel Barclid


Any time boo boo


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## ian

@Barclid wins the thread. And I agree with basically every one of his supposedly unpopular opinions.


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## Qapla'

"Wa" handles and untreated wood don't belong on knives made during the current millennium.

Kanji on knives are badly overrated. The Japanese themselves often do their design art using romaji, and if one seeks to have arcane inscriptions on a Japanese blade, bonji are a better choice.


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## wind88

For the love of god, don't round your heels especially for cleavers.


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## Corradobrit1

Barclid said:


> Collecting knives you never use is like collecting instruments you can't play.


So I can only buy an antique katana if I intend to chop someone up? Some blades are just works of art. Time to finally mention Ashi Honyaki


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## Corradobrit1

Meteorite is just a sales gimmick


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## Corradobrit1

Tamahagane makes crappy kitchen knives


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## ian

wind88 said:


> For the love of god, don't round your heels especially for cleavers.



I can see this for cleavers, but what does it matter if the heel of your gyuto is rounded? You’re never going to cut anything with it, unless you’re one of the weird KKF members who uses 60+ heel height gyutos or a hammer-grip-sporting cretin.

Heels are just for show, both in fashion and in gyutos.


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## Barclid

Corradobrit1 said:


> So I can only buy an antique katana if I intend to chop someone up? Some blades are just works of art. Time to finally mention Ashi Honyaki


A katana is a sword, not a knife. And all of the people I know personally who own Ashi Honyaki use them. They're excellent cutters.


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## Corradobrit1

90% of my self-inflicted cuts have been from wicked Jknife heels


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## Twigg

Corradobrit1 said:


> Meteorite is just a sales gimmick


I disagree... It must cut better. If it can cut through the atmosphere, a celery stock doesn't have a chance!


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## Barclid

ian said:


> @Barclid wins the thread. And I agree with basically every one of his supposedly unpopular opinions.


I read the thread as more "free bitching zone" than anything else


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## ian

Ok, I’ll go there.

Collecting isn’t a legitimate use for knives.


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## ian

Also, the Takeda heart is so cute! ❤


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## EveneshBBQ

Some chinese knives are good vfm


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## Mariner

Most of these are actually popular opinions, but said in a mean-spirited way. Here's an unpopular opinion: most of the controversy in chef knives is because newbies don't bother to read and experts don't have time/desire to explain things.


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## ModRQC

Dangerous thing about unpopular opinions is that they can easily be outright lies.

Trump is a wise and caring leader. I am a nice and popular member. That kind of ****.

Here are still my two cents:

There is as much BS, false rep and infatuation of value and price in J knives market than western market, if not even more. 

So called "finish" is often another way to rip you off. 

No it is not cool that there's a good chance what you see is not what you'll get (TFTFTFTF and about all else). It is not cool that there is no warranty. It is not cool that what you order may not be what you get, and that a vendor can just say : "oh well the maker said it was that, I bought a batch and all that". "Undisclosed steel" is BS. "Makers are quite secretive about their steels and processes" is BS.

If the handle doesn't suit you don't buy the goddamn knife. If one thing the makers will have to see about proposing handles that do sell.

Exclusivity of a particular heat treatment, or series of J-knife, for a particular vendor, is BS. At least a Wusthof is available everywhere and is always the same... sh**.

Victorinox Rosewood are just about the only knives that are not overpriced for what they are - and they are f****** good soft SS or not.



Could go on but more of the same.

Still, this is a GREAT thread, and here is my BEST FORUM ever.

So no, you won't be rid of me anytime soon.


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## ian

ModRQC said:


> Dangerous thing about unpopular opinions is that they can easily be outright lies.
> 
> Trump is a wise and caring leader. I am a nice and popular member. That kind of ****.
> 
> Here are still my two cents:
> 
> There is as much BS, false rep and infatuation of value and price in J knives market than western market, if not even more.
> 
> So called "finish" is often another way to rip you off.
> 
> No it is not cool that there's a good chance what you see is not what you'll get (TFTFTFTF and about all else). It is not cool that there is no warranty. It is not cool that what you order may not be what you get, and that a vendor can just say : "oh well the maker said it was that, I bought a batch and all that". "Undisclosed steel" is BS. "Makers are quite secretive about their steels and processes" is BS.
> 
> If the handle doesn't suit you don't buy the goddamn knife. If one thing the makers will have to see about proposing handles that do sell.
> 
> Exclusivity of a particular heat treatment, or series of J-knife, for a particular vendor, is BS. At least a Wusthof is available everywhere and is always the same... sh**.
> 
> Victorinox Rosewood are just about the only knives that are not overpriced for what they are - and they are f****** good soft SS or not.
> 
> 
> 
> Could go on but more of the same.
> 
> Still, this is a GREAT thread, and here is my BEST FORUM ever.
> 
> So no, you won't be rid of me anytime soon.



I agree!

(That this post will be unpopular.)


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## TSF415

@Barclid for the win. I feel we need a "barclid roasts" thread. I found myself yelling out "get em" after every one of his posts.


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## BillHanna

You’re a good time, @ModRQC


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## James

If I thinned the tip, my tojiro western deba would cut just as well as a kato gyuto


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## wind88

ian said:


> I can see this for cleavers, but what does it matter if the heel of your gyuto is rounded? You’re never going to cut anything with it, unless you’re one of the weird KKF members who uses 60+ heel height gyutos or a hammer-grip-sporting cretin.
> 
> Heels are just for show, both in fashion and in gyutos.


I like the option to score with the heel off the board when I want more control.


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## Barclid

Mariner said:


> Most of these are actually popular opinions, but said in a mean-spirited way. Here's an unpopular opinion: most of the controversy in chef knives is because newbies don't bother to read and experts don't have time/desire to explain things.


Context matters when determining whether an opinion is popular or not. Within the confines of this thread, within the confines of this forum having people that agree with you does not make your opinion widely popular. It makes your opinion popular within that conversation or particular group of people. I would say your opinion isn't even unpopular within this group.


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## ModRQC

Very nice of you @BillHanna 

You know it's still time to save your face and remove my quote from your signature....


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## soigne_west

Half the people yelling TFTFTF have never tried one, or if they have it’s a nashiji petty


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## ian

wind88 said:


> I like the option to score with the heel off the board when I want more control.



Ah, that’s interesting! I never do that, but maybe I should.


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## ian

soigne_west said:


> Half the people yelling TFTFTF have never tried one, or if they have it’s a nashiji petty



I love this. But I think it’s not correct.


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## tgfencer

Barclid said:


> Nakiri are no-tip-having-ass-gyutos.



Great for those folks who like to gesticulate wildly with their hands while talking though.


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## soigne_west

ian said:


> I love this. But I think it’s not correct.



It’s what I tell myself in my head.


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## soigne_west

Novels are for the library, not for forums


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## ian

soigne_west said:


> Novels are for the library, not for forums



Hey, no personal attacks. 



ModRQC said:


> No it is not cool that there's a good chance what you see is not what you'll get (TFTFTFTF and about all else). It is not cool that there is no warranty. It is not cool that what you order may not be what you get, and that a vendor can just say : "oh well the maker said it was that, I bought a batch and all that". "Undisclosed steel" is BS. "Makers are quite secretive about their steels and processes" is BS.



Btw, are you a moderator for the Reinstate Quality Control subforum?


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## TSF415

soigne_west said:


> Half the people yelling TFTFTF have never tried one, or if they have it’s a nashiji petty


I just got my Nashiji petty in the mail today! TFTFTFTFTFTFTF


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## brotondo

BeSt HeAt TrEaTmEnT iN tHe WoRlD


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## Hanmak17

SolidSnake03 said:


> Only a handful of Western makers make something that cuts equal or better than most of the Japanese knives in the $200-300 price range. And by handful I man like....3-4 that I've personally tried and it's been a lot.
> 
> Catcheside and Carter and Cris Anderson are all really good cutters
> 
> Ealy grinds are thick as hell and you might as well buy a $100 German.
> 
> Fowler is ruler flat and borderline unusable unless you only ever chop, every one I've had has had the tip broken as well.
> 
> Shig Gyutos really don't cut that well, their Nakiri's are badass and cut excellent but their gyuto grinds are meh at best.
> 
> Very few of the recent Workhorse trend knives are done well, they just wedge more overall and in terms of ease of cutting your average middleweight Tanaka (Ginsan or Sekiso) smokes them.



I'd add Antzenberger to that list of quality western makers.


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## Mariner

Everybody's a gangster in the HT thread until the metallurgist shows up.


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## Hanmak17

daddy yo yo said:


> Katos aren’t that good.


 Depends on which Kato. The 270 suji WH is outstanding


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## tostadas

I love my dishwasher


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## brotondo

These mad lads out here talking about their metal without ever even SEM imaging grain structures


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## MowgFace

Most custom Wa handles are absolutely hideous.


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## brotondo

MowgFace said:


> Most custom Wa handles are absolutely hideous.


"I swear the client has big hands and it's super comfortable"


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## ModRQC

Southpaw said:


> And on that note....
> Paper test doesn’t prove ****!



Not cutting paper says something. Tearing. Sound. As a goal of sharpening, useless though. What tearing paper by hand can't do scissors or table edge trick does.


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## ethompson

240mm gyutos are only so popular here because they’re easier to sell later.


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## ModRQC

Barclid said:


> Your wallet can buy you knives but it can't buy you meaningful insight or knowledge about those knives. Having one doesn't mean ****.



Knowing everything and not having a specific knife leaves you at the same place - regarding that knife. Having one does mean something.


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## Hanmak17

Not worth the money...


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## valgard

K-tips are just not proper tips, ugly AF!


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## ModRQC

One of the only knowledgeable member around here not treating newbies like garbage that should not participate into anything is likely the one that will avoid this thread, and if he doesn't, won't try to settle accounts in a flying manner.

Someone not knowing something you do has also 50% chances of being much smarter than you are.


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## valgard

Nakiri is better than bunka and K-tip gyutos together


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## valgard

Most people in this form don't know how to sharpen, yet they're quick to give sharpening advice. 

Too many people obsess about stupid scratches that can be fixed in 10 minutes if needed. This prevents them from doing what needs to be done to their knives.


----------



## slickmamba

MowgFace said:


> Most custom Wa handles are absolutely hideous.


Are you still ripping fats ones like on the JKI zoom call? You’re my hero


----------



## ian

valgard said:


> Most people in this form don't know how to sharpen, yet they're quick to give sharpening advice.



I don’t actually mind that. People that have been sharpening for a week have something to teach to people who have been sharpening for a day. And teaching is a good way to learn. But yea, one has to take all suggestions with a grain of salt.


----------



## labor of love

If you hang out on reddit too much you’ll get AIDS


----------



## slickmamba

labor of love said:


> If you hang out on reddit too much you’ll get AIDS


Too much free speech suppression for me.


----------



## Mariner

slickmamba said:


> Too much free speech suppression for me.



Meanwhile r/KitchenConfidential running around like _Lord of the Flies_


----------



## esoo

Obsessing over some Japanese sharpener is meaningless as you're just going to ruin their work thinning the blade.


----------



## labor of love

No one appreciates a well made quality ho wood handle anymore.


----------



## slickmamba

Mariner said:


> Meanwhile r/KitchenConfidential running around like _Lord of the Flies_


/r/sharpening is like going into Home Depot and everyone there gives you advice


----------



## DanDan

Most of you would be perfectly fine with a 1K stone and a Tojiro gyuto


----------



## parbaked

labor of love said:


> No one appreciates a well made quality ho wood handle anymore.


...unless it's been torched.


----------



## Barclid

ModRQC said:


> Knowing everything and not having a specific knife leaves you at the same place - regarding that knife. Having one does mean something.


You don't have to own a knife to see it, use it, and make a decision. Just borrow one from a friend.


----------



## IronBalloon

Barclid said:


> You don't have to own a knife to see it, use it, and make a decision. Just borrow one from a friend.


But if haven’t owned one how can I lord it over everyone else? I had a knife on catch and release for three days. Therefore, I am the premier authority.


----------



## Mariner

IronBalloon said:


> But if haven’t owned one how can I lord it over everyone else? I had a knife on catch and release for three days. Therefore, I am the premier authority.



But did you manage to resell it at 110% value?


----------



## Barclid

esoo said:


> Obsessing over some Japanese sharpener is meaningless as you're just going to ruin their work thinning the blade.



Worth noting the same argument holds for any kind of sharpening you do. I'd say thinning as you go is actually the least intrusive on the original grind as long as you're trying to follow it as faithfully as possible.


----------



## Bensbites

You should learn how to sharpen on a cheap knife carbon steel knife before spending any more money on a decent Gyuto.


----------



## Barclid

IronBalloon said:


> But if haven’t owned one how can I lord it over everyone else? I had a knife on catch and release for three days. Therefore, I am the premier authority.


Damn, you're right. You gotta start a forum signature with all the knives you've ever owned/sold so that people know your credentials. Gotta get the proper R E S P E C C T.


----------



## IronBalloon

Barclid said:


> Worth noting the same argument holds for any kind of sharpening you do. I'd say thinning as you go is actually the least intrusive on the original grind as long as you're trying to follow it as faithfully as possible.


As an aside do you have recommendation as to how to preserve the geometry as much as possible. I’ve just been eyeballing it but was wondering if there’s a better method?


----------



## BillHanna

parbaked said:


> ...unless it's been torched.


Are you hash tooth?


----------



## IronBalloon

Mariner said:


> But did you manage to resell it at 110% value?


Don’t knives appreciate in value?


----------



## Barclid

IronBalloon said:


> As an aside do you have recommendation as to how to preserve the geometry as much as possible. I’ve just been eyeballing it but was wondering if there’s a better method?


It's essentially eyeballing and going by feel. Feel from spine to edge with your fingers on either side, note the degree of convexity at each part of the knife. Then when you're sharpening, you will want to thin in relation to those transition points with differing angles so that you're attempting to maintain that same geometry. Or you can just thin it more than original geometry and attempt to maintain some amount of convexity, usually by introducing your desired edge angle first and then working back into the rest of the blade at varying angles. There are a few ways to do it but it comes down to experience.


----------



## slickmamba

IronBalloon said:


> Don’t knives appreciate in value?


I paid for shipping and tax, so you should cover the shipping and tax I paid, and for the shipping cost to you and the PayPal fees


----------



## billyO

ian said:


> Collecting isn’t a legitimate use for knives.


But then what would all of us custom makers who aren't well known do with all the knives we make?

You will never know as much as I know about what I know.....


----------



## esoo

I don't obsess over rust - that's what Scotch Brite is for. 

I Scotch Brite my cast iron - I always have more bacon for seasoning.


----------



## Twigg

J-knives made outside of Japan are only copies and should be called J-style knives. Not necessarily 2nd tier though.


----------



## DitmasPork

*Unpopular opinion? Hmmmm, how about:

The importance of supporting Chelsea Miller for the sake of diversity, to broaden the audience and market for handmade kitchen knives—thus benefiting knife makers, the community, and vendors who sell kitchen knives. And, those disparaging Miller and her craft are unfairly doing do so perhaps out of jealousy of her success and ability to consistently garner positive press and fetch $800+ for her cheese graters chef's knives.*


----------



## M1k3

ethompson said:


> 240mm gyutos are only so popular here because they’re easier to sell later.


I have nothing against 210mm. 240mm is good for large amounts of prep. Not mirepoix for 2.


slickmamba said:


> I paid for shipping and tax, so you should cover the shipping and tax I paid, and for the shipping cost to you and the PayPal fees


Don't forget the membership fee.


----------



## soigne_west

DitmasPork said:


> *Unpopular opinion? Hmmmm, how about:
> 
> The importance of supporting Chelsea Miller for the sake of diversity, to broaden the audience and market for handmade kitchen knives—thus benefiting knife makers, the community, and vendors who sell kitchen knives. And, those disparaging Miller and her craft are unfairly doing do so perhaps out of jealousy of her success and ability to consistently garner positive press and fetch $800+ for her cheese graters chef's knives.*



Don’t agree simply for the fact that if she can charge $800 for a fxcking horse shoe rasp how much do you think the other makers would be charging for actually forging knives from raw steel


----------



## labor of love

DitmasPork said:


> *Unpopular opinion? Hmmmm, how about:
> 
> The importance of supporting Chelsea Miller for the sake of diversity, to broaden the audience and market for handmade kitchen knives—thus benefiting knife makers, the community, and vendors who sell kitchen knives. And, those disparaging Miller and her craft are unfairly doing do so perhaps out of jealousy of her success and ability to consistently garner positive press and fetch $800+ for her cheese graters chef's knives.*


I can’t tell if you’re joking or if you just hung out on reddit too long.
Either way, you might’ve discovered the most unpopular opinion.


----------



## ian

ian said:


> Ok, I’ll go there.
> 
> Collecting isn’t a legitimate use for knives.






billyO said:


> But then what would all of us custom makers who aren't well known do with all the knives we make?
> 
> You will never know as much as I know about what I know.....



I stand corrected. Collectors, spend even more money on knives. But then shut up about it.


----------



## aszma

This is gonna be a good thread

Knife rolls are scams
Sayas are over rated and plastic sheaths just work so much better especially at work
Masamoto KS are way over rated and over price
Most custom handles suck and make the knife worst
Way to many people claim BNIB or near pristine condition when in fact the knife they are selling isnt either of those things
225mm blades are vastly superior to 240mm blades
Nakiris are pointless (haha get it?) but are super fun to use
most damascus patterns are lame


----------



## Barclid

Raquin is French TF.


----------



## Barclid

DitmasPork said:


> *Unpopular opinion? Hmmmm, how about:
> 
> The importance of supporting Chelsea Miller for the sake of diversity, to broaden the audience and market for handmade kitchen knives—thus benefiting knife makers, the community, and vendors who sell kitchen knives. And, those disparaging Miller and her craft are unfairly doing do so perhaps out of jealousy of her success and ability to consistently garner positive press and fetch $800+ for her cheese graters chef's knives.*


I have to appreciate your ability to troll.


----------



## ian

aszma said:


> Nakiris are pointless (haha get it?) but are super fun to use



We are brothers. 

But now I have a Wat nakiri and love it.


----------



## parbaked

Barclid said:


> Raquin is French TF.


I'm confused...I have both and my TF handle is definitely not too long....


----------



## Garm

A pet peeve of mine is that Japanese makers with slightly uneven lamination lines on their blades, even if it's small variations we're talking about, sometimes get accused on this forum of shoddy workmanship. Western custom or "custom" makers with lamination lines that move from 2-50 mm on the same side, often including small "islands" of cladding surrounded by core steel are somehow not only okay but even close to "perfection"?


----------



## labor of love

Garm said:


> A pet peeve of mine is that Japanese makers with slightly uneven lamination lines on their blades, even if it's small variations we're talking about, sometimes get accused on this forum of shoddy workmanship. Western custom or "custom" makers with lamination lines that move from 2-50 mm on the same side, often including small "islands" of cladding surrounded by core steel are somehow not only okay but even close to "perfection"?


2-50mm is being polite, more like 0-50mm with cladding hugging the very edge. Big names with heavy sticker prices are certainly guilty of this.


----------



## ian

labor of love said:


> 2-50mm is being polite, more like 0-50mm with cladding hugging the very edge. Big names with heavy sticker prices are certainly guilty of this.



hugging or even hitting... give me a yoshikane cladding line any day.


----------



## captaincaed

labor of love said:


> No one appreciates a well made quality ho wood handle anymore.


The Gesshin Ginga handles are pretty gangster in person. Doesn't come thru in the photos but they're actually something special. I was glad I took Jon's advice on one.


----------



## captaincaed

aszma said:


> This is gonna be a good thread
> 
> Knife rolls are scams
> Sayas are over rated and plastic sheaths just work so much better especially at work
> Masamoto KS are way over rated and over price
> Most custom handles suck and make the knife worst
> Way to many people claim BNIB or near pristine condition when in fact the knife they are selling isnt either of those things
> 225mm blades are vastly superior to 240mm blades
> Nakiris are pointless (haha get it?) but are super fun to use
> most damascus patterns are lame


I would like to subscribe to your newsletter


----------



## ian

captaincaed said:


> The Gesshin Ginga handles are ****ing gangster in person. Doesn't come thru in the photos but they're actually something special. I was glad I took Jon's advice on one.



yea, i really liked them too. also loved the octo ho handle on my old Miz KS (may it rip), and actually even the ho handle on my current TF mab, although not quite as much.


----------



## esoo

Your custom handle messed up the balance of a perfectly good knife


----------



## Corradobrit1

Garm said:


> A pet peeve of mine is that Japanese makers with slightly uneven lamination lines on their blades, even if it's small variations we're talking about, sometimes get accused on this forum of shoddy workmanship. Western custom or "custom" makers with lamination lines that move from 2-50 mm on the same side, often including small "islands" of cladding surrounded by core steel are somehow not only okay but even close to "perfection"?


Describes Carters work. At least Jiro's 'usually' get sold as seconds when cladding issues are obvious.


----------



## ian

I think this thread has been good therapy. Nearly 200 posts in one day speaks of a lot of pent up feelings.


----------



## captaincaed

Amen


----------



## slickmamba

These all seem like pretty popular opinions to me


----------



## parbaked

People who think knives made from pre-laminated steel are better because the cladding is "perfect" don't understand how difficult it is to make your own awase and how those "islands" are not imperfections...


----------



## Blerghle

Most people will never get their knife as sharp as it is OOTB.


----------



## rickbern

The answer to which knife should I buy? Should almost always be “None. Buy some stones and learn to sharpen the knives you already have”


----------



## MowgFace

Blerghle said:


> Most people will never get their knife as sharp as it is OOTB.



Hahaha that would make me so sad.


----------



## MowgFace

The machi vs machi gap debate needs to happen more often.


----------



## MowgFace

A sand blasted “faux-nogi” really isn’t that bad.


----------



## daveb

soigne_west said:


> Don’t agree simply for the fact that if she can charge $800 for a fxcking horse shoe rasp how much do you think the other makers would be charging for actually forging knives from raw steel



Your missing the part about my gf doesnt just charge $800 for a knife - she gets paid $800 for a knife. All day long.

Those sorry makets that actually forge can charge all they want for knives that will gather dust on their shelves. No coin there.

The gf unit has found a niche and satisfies it. More power to her. And I'm not sharing pictures.


----------



## ian

MowgFace said:


> A sand blasted “faux-nogi” really isn’t that bad.



Yea, as long as you are comfortable with it not being a wide bevel, it can look quite nice.


----------



## soigne_west

Let’s chat again after she’s your next ex wife


----------



## Corradobrit1

Bead blasted 'Faux-sumi' is a real drag. Literally.


----------



## Ruso

Real unpopular opinion, Kato kanji is beautifully inscribed. 
Hell yea!


----------



## tchan001

Singatirin mizu-honyaki are the best priced Japanese honyaki in the world and will become highly sought after collector items in the future if not already so. Good luck with your search.


----------



## tchan001

When your wife hears you chant TFTFTFTF, she thinks you will buy her some Tom Ford.


----------



## tchan001

Wootz looks better than most Damascus.


----------



## GoodMagic

1. Carters handles are butt ugly
2. natural stones are a waste off money for most
3. Shigs are no better than most, overpriced and reactive
4. single bevels are not for the home chef
5. TF knives really are great despite the cosmetics
6. Damascus is for show and ego
7. Shapton pro stones are all I ever need
8. i Don’t need more than one 210 gyuto
9. My favorite new knife is a nihei 210 from carbon
10. I still love my Takeda
11. I’ve only had good experiences with CKTG.
12. I miss the old forum, pre2015. The posts were more helpful, less reactive, and a lot more fun. I miss Salty, Mr Drinky, Son, Chuckle, among others.
13. Sharpening a knife isn’t very difficult, and Should only take a few minutes.


----------



## panda

there are too many sissies on kkf.


----------



## Barclid

parbaked said:


> I'm confused...I have both and my TF handle is definitely not too long....


Both are too drunk to taste this chicken.


----------



## Corradobrit1

I miss sOreal who was a positive attribute to the KKF community


----------



## GoodMagic

why have all the makers who used to post vacated the forum? Randy, Devin, Rader, Catcheside, all used to post. Maksim too.


----------



## Twigg

GoodMagic said:


> why have all the makers who used to post vacated the forum? Randy, Devin, Rader, Catcheside, all used to post. Maksim too.


Perhaps they got what they needed, are now established and busy enough that frequent interaction is not necessary.


----------



## captaincaed

I look at how Larrin's posts are treated and I have some idea.


----------



## Twigg

Could also be that they too miss the old forum as you do. Things may be different now, perhaps in some ways meaner or more demanding? Just honest speculation.


----------



## aszma

ian said:


> We are brothers.
> 
> But now I have a Wat nakiri and love it.


My global nakiri was my guilty pleasure for years


----------



## Jville

SolidSnake03 said:


> Yeah took me a lot of money and time but so far I can say the C's have it down really well but outside that it gets really dicey as to what performs at all.
> 
> C's being Carter, Catcheside and Cris (Anderson)


 Have you tried Mert, great grinds and performance.




soigne_west said:


> Nakiri’s are stupid


 There are guys hating on nakiris yet staring at there 240s wishing it had a bigger flat spot. So they go buy a 270, instead of a bad ass 210 nakiri. And let's be honest most of the time you don't even need the tip... There you go Panda. 



[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="labor of love said:


> No one appreciates a well made quality ho wood handle anymore.


 Not true, they are way more respected and sought out over gaudy customs. 
I just had to sit and read 7 pages to catch up on this thread, and it just started today .


----------



## SHOWERDOOKIE

I got a Miyabi santoku and a dalstrong nakiri as gifts and they both have ridiculous food release, I absolutely love them.


----------



## panda

Jville said:


> Have you tried Mert, great grinds and performance.
> 
> 
> There are guys hating on nakiris yet staring at there 240s wishing it had a bigger flat spot. So they go buy a 270, instead of a bad ass 210 nakiri. And let's be honest most of the time you don't even need the tip... There you go Panda.
> Not true, they are way more respected and sought out over gaudy customs.
> I just had to sit and read 7 pages to catch up on this thread, and it just started today .


they always need the tip


----------



## M1k3

Corradobrit1 said:


> I miss Chef Doom who was a positive attribute to the KKF community


FTFY


----------



## panda

M1k3 said:


> FTFY


f you, f this


----------



## madelinez

Where'd Chef Doom go anyway?


----------



## labor of love

madelinez said:


> Where'd Chef Doom go anyway?


At war with the fantastic four.


----------



## Jville

madelinez said:


> Where'd Chef Doom go anyway?


I didn't think he left. I thought he was just busy with world domination.


----------



## Jville

DitmasPork said:


> *Unpopular opinion? Hmmmm, how about:
> 
> The importance of supporting Chelsea Miller for the sake of diversity, to broaden the audience and market for handmade kitchen knives—thus benefiting knife makers, the community, and vendors who sell kitchen knives. And, those disparaging Miller and her craft are unfairly doing do so perhaps out of jealousy of her success and ability to consistently garner positive press and fetch $800+ for her cheese graters chef's knives.*


I see what you did. You put it in bold to really emphasize how much she sucks.


----------



## tchan001

He just wants to promote her to try to get inside her book.


----------



## brotondo

slickmamba said:


> I paid for shipping and tax, so you should cover the shipping and tax I paid, and for the shipping cost to you and the PayPal fees


Turns out Ryky hasnt been inflating the KS, they have been in a vicious C&R feedback loop


----------



## daddy yo yo

GoodMagic said:


> why have all the makers who used to post vacated the forum? Randy, Devin, Rader, Catcheside, all used to post. Maksim too.


I like to believe that they have started a small community somewhere in the hidden parts of the internet...


----------



## Nagakin

daddy yo yo said:


> I like to believe that they have started a small community somewhere in the hidden parts of the internet...


With the other 22k members I never see?


----------



## Mikeadunne

Don’t know if this has been covered yet, not even sure it’s unpopular....180mm Gyutos are f***ing stupid.


----------



## cotedupy

Well I'm going to go against the grain and say I've really enjoyed my short time on these forums so far. There's a huge amount of information and expertise, and a lot of people who very generously share it!


----------



## Corradobrit1

This forum is fair dinkum


----------



## Hamso k

captaincaed said:


> We all have em.
> I sometimes think the forum is in protectionist mode trying to preserve the value of their knives for later sale. Anyone up for a little honesty, offered in the spirit of peace and love?
> 
> So here's an opportunity to beef or brag a little. What's surprised you in a good or bad way?
> 
> I'll go first.
> 
> Don Nguyen petty was way too thick for a petty. Doorstop. Early work of his.
> 
> Delbert Ealy is too thick, has edge recurves, and the full damascus couldn't hold an edge.
> 
> Xerxes tip is too thin, and I think was overheated from grinding, leading to discolored steel and a snap.
> 
> Mac is undervalued as a whole package. There are better blades and cheaper beaters, but this damn thing can't be killed. And it's comfy. And it holds up to poly boards.



The term workhorse is very misleading. Before knife forums like this one and r/chefknives became saturated with new knife owners, workhorse meant what it sounded like: a knife that gets used a lot. Now it has mutated into meaning thick and heavy knives. Because of this, a lot of people think lasers are fragile and not meant for heavy use, and I think this is one of the reasons they aren't as popular anymore. I do prep for soup for a living and I exclusively use stainless lasers. I think it's possible to have a laser workhorse.


----------



## bahamaroot

Santokus where made so chicks could have their own knife.


----------



## KingShapton

Naniwa Chosera / Professional are very good, but all stones above the 1000s are very overpriced! And in addition, there is the well-known risk of hair cracks with the expensive stones ..

There are better alternatives!


----------



## BillHanna

*prepares safe room. Tells wife and children he loves them*
I love my 180 gyuto 
*runs away, and puts phone on silent*


----------



## Garm

parbaked said:


> People who think knives made from pre-laminated steel are better because the cladding is "perfect" don't understand how difficult it is to make your own awase and how those "islands" are not imperfections...


If this was directed at my comment, I believe you missed the point I was trying to make  .


----------



## Garm

Shapton Pro stones make feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a stupid place. Or perhaps clueless place.


----------



## Carl Kotte

ian said:


> We are brothers.
> 
> But now I have a Wat nakiri and love it.


You’re just confused, I’m afraid


----------



## esoo

Your high end carbon collection is worthless. When you pass it's going to be sold for a tenth of the value by someone uttering something similar to this: "they looked nice, were incredibly sharp, but they rusted when I left them in the rack to dry"


----------



## Carl Kotte

aszma said:


> My global nakiri was my guilty pleasure for years


The global nakiris are surprisingly nice. I really don’t know why. In particular the forged one.


----------



## Carl Kotte

End grain boards are... (don’t know, I’ve never had one, but Please insert something appropriately insulting)!


----------



## childermass

There you go...


Carl Kotte said:


> End grain boards are *overpriced and unnecessary!*



I own one myself so I know


----------



## Carl Kotte

childermass said:


> There you go...
> 
> 
> I own one myself so I know


Haha, Thank you!


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

esoo said:


> Your high end carbon collection is worthless. When you pass it's going to be sold for a tenth of the value by someone uttering something similar to this: "they looked nice, were incredibly sharp, but they rusted when I left them in the rack to dry"


Mine will be buried with me, don't know where you get your intel from.


----------



## Dhoff

home chef knives for amateurs above 210mm is compensation

Handles being artificially dyed in bright colors are a horror show

Flippers only trying to earn money are human too.


----------



## ian

Dhoff said:


> Flippers only trying to earn money are human too.



True! And so are axe murderers.


----------



## Hassanbensober

A honing steel if used properly and gently will in no way damage your Japanese knife.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Barclid said:


> Your obsession with a big "flat spot" leads new knife makers to make suboptimal knives.


Totally agree with this one. I sold my yoshikane for it being too flat (I made that clear on the BST thread tho), otherwise it would be a fantastic knife.


----------



## DanDan

Not sure if this is unpopular, but I liked how this forum looked and felt before the revamp. The like system is nice though, if you want the real unpopular opinions you should look at the least liked posts 



Nagakin said:


> With the other 22k members I never see?



We're just here to steal unicorns and flip them, duh



Hamso k said:


> workhorse



Okay I have another one, the terms "workhorse" and "laser" the community uses are understandable to differentiate between styles generally, but stupid. Let me illustrate:

A knife nerd finally makes their pilgrimage to their favourite maker's workshop in Japan, spending thousands of dollars for the journey. They get there and get a chance to start talking to their personal hero, and start to ask them about the difference in the 2014 vs the 2015 batches, which had a little more of a workhorse feel to them. Here's the punchline: the maker has no ****ing clue what they're talking about.


----------



## BillHanna

Barclid said:


> Your obsession with a big "flat spot" leads new knife makers to make suboptimal knives.


Bet they wish they had a nakiri....


----------



## Ruso

BillHanna said:


> Bet they wish they had a nakiri....


But we all know that nakiris are stupid!


----------



## Bensbites

I like cheap plastic cutting boards that can go into the dishwasher after cutting aromatics or raw protein.


----------



## ian

DanDan said:


> A knife nerd finally makes their pilgrimage to their favourite maker's workshop in Japan, spending thousands of dollars for the journey. They get there and get a chance to start talking to their personal hero, and start to ask them about the difference in the 2014 vs the 2015 batches, which had a little more of a workhorse feel to them. Here's the punchline: the maker has no ****ing clue what they're talking about.



Hmm, maybe next time they should try speaking Japanese?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Carl Kotte said:


> End grain boards are... (don’t know, I’ve never had one, but Please insert something appropriately insulting)!


I own 2 end grain boards (a small one and a larger one). Hasegawa is much better value and much better board overall. I think the Hasegawa and Asahi even look better than end grain boards.


----------



## Jville

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Mine will be buried with me, don't know where you get your intel from.


If you need help with your burial, let me know.


Ruso said:


> But we all know that nakiris are stupid!


 Plenty of 240 gyutos wish they were 1/2 the beast that my 210 toyama nakiri is.


----------



## Kippington

I hate the feeling of a really sharp knife on a wooden board. It grips like a mofo.


----------



## Ruso

Jville said:


> If you need help with your burial, let me know.
> Plenty of 240 gyutos wish they were 1/2 the beast that my 210 toyama nakiri is.


And all toyama Nakiris wish they were 1/2 the beast my Gransfors axe is.
Not sure what’s your point is man. Sorry if my joke offended you, it was not my intention.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Jville said:


> If you need help with your burial, let me know.


Cold man, cold.


----------



## pgugger

Let me pile on with more than a few of mine...

Kato is not so special, or at least is it is not better than knives that are half the price or less. Of course, I only used the passaround Kato standard for a few quick meal preps at home, so what do I know.

Jiro wa gyuto is worth it, or at least it is not that overpriced. Fantastic knife, beautiful craftsmanship. I'd choose it over Kato (see above).

Takeda NAS are great (for some tasks), and the idea that the old grind on the AS was better seems impossible due to basic geometry and physical constraints. Probably too much to get into details for this thread, but suffice to say that the signature grind could not be thinner and less prone to wedging without compromising stiffness or food release (a signature feature). I've never held or used an AS, though!

Sharpeners get far less attention than blacksmiths, but I think that they are probably at least as important to how the knife performs and its essence. Indirectly they are acknowledged with all the talk of grinds, but rarely are they named and linked to the knife the way the blacksmith is. They probably should be. 

Custom handles are mostly gaudy, and simple, traditional handles are underrated. The few custom handles I have held are also out of balance with the knife for my preferences, largely because they use denser or stabilized woods.

I am skeptical about people's ability to discern the quality of heat treat in any nuanced way, especially considering all the variables that go into making a knife. Also, isn't heat treat mostly a matter of tradeoffs rather than better or worse?

Often too much focus on subtle inconsistencies in grind or choil shots rather than on the more important metrics of how the knife performs, irrespective of "imperfections". I suspect inconsistencies improve the knife sometimes (e.g., food release).

I really like tamahagane, even if it's lower quality than industrial steels. Talk about tradition!

It is weird that we all obsess over gyutos crafted by "traditional" Japanese methods. If we were really into Japanese knives and tradition, why wouldn't we value traditional Japanese knives more? Yanagiba, deba, etc. Maybe even (gasp) nakiris and santokus! That said, I prefer gyutos 

...maybe not all unpopular opinions, but probably a few controversial ones.


----------



## WildBoar

GoodMagic said:


> 12. I miss the old forum, pre2015. The posts were more helpful, less reactive, and a lot more fun. I miss Salty, Mr Drinky, Son, Chuckle, among others.


I 100% agree (err, except for the 'less reactive' part -- but that was usually entertaining)


panda said:


> there are too many sissies on kkf.


Hey, how about those Red Pandas! (saw an IG post with that as the new team name/ graphic and thought you would have commentary)


GoodMagic said:


> why have all the makers who used to post vacated the forum? Randy, Devin, Rader, Catcheside, all used to post. Maksim too.


Too $ for the makers to stay on KKF when other forum(s) gave them a free year, then most developed a good presence via IG and regular newsletters. Too many no- or low-cost places to advertise these days.


----------



## mise_en_place

I agree a lot of people talk out of their ass. To some degree, the forum encourages this behavior with "50 meaningful posts" or whatever before getting into BST. I didn't know **** when I first started here, barely know much more now. I try to refrain from talking about what I don't know and that keeps me pretty silent. 

Some of the older and more knowledgeable members are probably tired of answering the same questions, as well. This opens the doors for "I just got my King 1/6k stone last week" guy to flood the forums with misinformation. I always love when people start talking out their ass and someone like @JBroida comes in and tells them they don't know jack-- usually quite respectfully. 



SolidSnake03 said:


> Only a handful of Western makers make something that cuts equal or better than most of the Japanese knives in the $200-300 price range. And by handful I man like....3-4 that I've personally tried and it's been a lot.



I have to wholeheartedly disagree with this one. 3-4 is a bit low. I'm not on Insta, so I'm sure there are plenty of guys and gals making knives that are absolute crap, but look great. That's Instagram for you. 

Off the top of my head here are makers who make great cutters:
@HSC /// Knives, @chefcomesback, Prendergrast, Dalman, Marko, Devin, Mario

There are lots of really great options for J knives in the $200-300 range. No argument here. 

Unfortunately, I've got to agree on Ealy. Love his aesthetic but have never appreciated the performance of his knives on anything but raw or cooked protein. 

I will also add I was impressed by the CJA I was able to try and I had a Shig gyuto that cut great, but I got rid of it because a sideways glance induced rust on the cladding.


----------



## Kippington

VG-10 is a good knife steel, and it's easy to sharpen.
Hitachi White steels are over-hyped


----------



## mise_en_place

Kippington said:


> Hitachi White steels are over-hyped



Here, here. I love how easy they are to sharpen, but there's a reason I don't have more than one shirogami knife in my collection. It's also a deba, so I don't really use it much.


----------



## XooMG

Cooking minimally for 2.7 people at home, I often enjoy dissecting ingredients with a petty or small gyuto more than I like cutting with my cleavers and bigger gyuto.


----------



## Migraine

People on this forum don't like colourful handles because they're over fifty and boring


----------



## jwpark

pgugger said:


> Takeda NAS are great (for some tasks), and the idea that the old grind on the AS was better seems impossible due to basic geometry and physical constraints. Probably too much to get into details for this thread, but suffice to say that the signature grind could not be thinner and less prone to wedging without compromising stiffness or food release (a signature feature). I've never held or used an AS, though!


New Takeda grind is crap.
Old grind rocks, but his old knives, F&F and grind (besides bevel) will vary.


----------



## ian

Migraine said:


> People on this forum don't like colourful handles because they're over fifty and boring


----------



## Barashka

oof, I may have a few, some more controversial than others ... 

- Burrfection did more for knife community then most people here can even understand. That's why he has 180k+ subs now. People here just hate on what they don't understand. (shocked no one mentioned this yet).

- We buy knives as much on looks as performance .. shuns/miyabis look more beautiful to most people/general public than many "proper" Japanese knives. I trust miyabi market research team knows what they are doing.

- Hammons are only for show.

- It's ok not to know how to sharpen on stones and rely on electronic ones.

- A knife is supposed to cut, if it wedges, it's not cutting and it's a bad general purpose knife.

- Your amazing collection does not automatically give you cred in knife recommendation or even general opinions .. you're so far removed from the general public, that you may not even understand their needs.

- Your extreme knowledge of metallurgy, also, does not give you cred in general opinions. Unless proven otherwise, you're already too far gone to talk to plebs. 

- Every fanboy/hater. You're a disease. In any hobby. You pollute the environment with extreme, often objectively wrong, opinions that have to be quelled so the rest of the population doesn't swing that way, wasting our time fighting the same battles.


----------



## M1k3

Migraine said:


> People on this forum don't like colourful handles because they're over fifty and boring


Guess I was born 10 years late and am boring


----------



## pgugger

jwpark said:


> New Takeda grind is crap.
> Old grind rocks, but his old knives, F&F and grind (besides bevel) will vary.



Haha... so is my opinion unpopular or yours?


----------



## josemartinlopez

BillHanna said:


> I love my 180 gyuto


But don't they make OK petty substitutes?


----------



## Barclid

Barashka said:


> - Burrfection did more for knife community then most people here can even understand.
> 
> - Every fanboy/hater. You're a disease. In any hobby. You pollute the environment with extreme, often objectively wrong, opinions.



 If you're not a Ryky fanboy then I must not be a Ryky hater either.


----------



## Mariner

Barashka said:


> Burrfection did more for knife community then most people here can even understand. That's why he has 180k+ subs now. People here just hate on what they don't understand. (shocked no one mentioned this yet).



Oh yeah now it's getting spicy.


----------



## BillHanna

josemartinlopez said:


> But don't they make OK petty substitutes?


That was actually why I bought it, but it didn’t feel petty-like at all. But I lurve hurr.


----------



## valgard

180 gyutos are awesome, 210 gyutos are like Wednesdays


----------



## esoo

Barashka said:


> - Burrfection did more for knife community then most people here can even understand. That's why he has 180k+ subs now. People here just hate on what they don't understand. (shocked no one mentioned this yet).



180K+ subs has no correlation to his contribution to the community. All it means is 180K+ people like watching his videos on a regular basis.


----------



## nwshull

Bolsters make knives better








Lol j/k.


----------



## Matus

Collecting is a disease or a business. Sometimes both.


----------



## Matus

Freedom of speech does not mean it is ok to bully, ridicule or patronize others.


----------



## Matus

Flippers and BNIB knives should be put in a separate BST subforum.


----------



## jwpark

nwshull said:


> Bolsters make knives better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol j/k.


----------



## Matus

I should moderate all posts in this thread if they get 3 or more likes, because they are obviously off topic.


----------



## ian

(come on people, like matus's post)


----------



## Matus

Stop it @ian


----------



## Mikeadunne

I’m 35 - colorful handles are lame. They are the affliction t shirts of the knife world.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral

Regarding not only handles, people should get old fast.


----------



## ma_sha1

captaincaed said:


> All square knives are for squares



yup, Kato WH does cut well, expected as its Toyama after weight gain & tripling of the price.


----------



## Barashka

Barclid said:


> If you're not a Ryky fanboy then I must not be a Ryky hater either.


I've had plenty of criticism for him, yet you had literal zero good to say ...


----------



## nwshull

Barashka said:


> I've had plenty of criticism for him, yet you had literal zero good to say ...


He's gotten better. For a while, you knew he was recommending knives that weren't his best from the mass produced big boys. On the other hand, spotlighting stuff like Yoshikane, Takefu, will make those knives probably make those brands harder to get. Good for KKF member pocket books probably, but bad for getting a fix.


----------



## Ruso

Matus said:


> Flippers and BNIB knives should be put in a separate BST subforum.


How this is unpopular? 
Hmmm, I think I know, you meant that the popular opinion is that they should not be able to post at all.


----------



## Barclid

Barashka said:


> I've had plenty of criticism for him, yet you had literal zero good to say ...


I have on numerous occasions credited him with bringing more people into the hobby. You have this weird persecution complex about you that I first noticed way back in the r/chefknives Discord after we told you your mountain of potential wiki contributions were filled with inaccuracies. I would also say that people like you are the reason people like me don't like to engage with newbies for the most part.


----------



## mack

Bogdan ist great for fine and closed edges and the knife stays sharp much longer.

Mack.


----------



## ma_sha1

Unpopular opinions make the most popular thread


----------



## brotondo

ian said:


> Hmm, maybe next time they should try speaking Japanese?


作業の馬ナイフ


----------



## ma_sha1

Despite the forum queen status of 240, the unpopular 210 is the most popular knife in real life!


----------



## Noodle Soup

A little rocker in the edge of a real Chinese cleaver is a good thing.


----------



## ma_sha1

Chelsea Miller is the most underrated blacksmith.

If you argue with me, then you are automatically adding support to my unpopular opinion.


----------



## Barashka

Barclid said:


> I have on numerous occasions credited him with bringing more people into the hobby.


I missed that, sorry.



Barclid said:


> potential wiki contributions were filled with inaccuracies.


I didn't know I came off that way, I knew a lot of it would be wrong, I was really looking to correct it and have it available ... I do have a strong anti bs tendency though, and frequently go after people for it.
However, it's been years since and some of the answers still haven't made it to the wiki .. so don't be surprised if people go elsewhere to find that info.



Barclid said:


> don't like to engage with newbies for the most part.


If you can't keep up, don't step up.


----------



## Bensbites

Migraine said:


> People on this forum don't like colourful handles because they're over fifty and boring


I am under fifty and boring.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

BillHanna said:


> *prepares safe room. Tells wife and children he loves them*
> I love my 180 gyuto
> *runs away, and puts phone on silent*



You are not alone. 

Not gonna lie, I'd like my Mazaki 180 petty even more if it was 5-10mm taller.


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> I can’t tell if you’re joking or if you just hung out on reddit too long.
> Either way, you might’ve discovered the most unpopular opinion.



Joke. Yes, was attempting to find an opinion that would be collectively unpopular on KKF.


----------



## McMan

This message will self-destruct in 20mins...
Here's my unpopular opinion:
Sometimes a sub-$200 Japanese 240mm will out-perform nearly every other knife you own.


----------



## ma_sha1

McMan said:


> This message will self-destruct in 20mins...
> Here's my unpopular opinion:
> Sometimes a sub-$200 Japanese 240mm will out-perform nearly every other knife you own.



Tanaka is one of those, likes to mess with upper class Gyutos.


----------



## Mariner

Barclid said:


> I have on numerous occasions credited him with bringing more people into the hobby.



That's like crediting Isoroku Yamamoto with getting more Americans into flying


----------



## Barclid

Barashka said:


> If you can't keep up, don't step up.



What does this have to do with "keep[ing] up"? In what way do you mean this? Keep my energy level up when speaking with people like you? Keep up with the latest Ryky trends?


----------



## Danzo

hi-soft boards rule.


----------



## Barashka

Barclid said:


> In what way do you mean this?


On a forum, dedicated to knife knowledge, where people of all kinds of levels are expected to visit ... the vast majority being noobs, it's counterproductive "not liking engaging with noobs".
I would also argue that you're not the only one and that's why the knife world has a relatively steep learning curve, or at least the 'new user experience' is pretty rough. That's tough to see being sr in a hobby (any hobby, please don't take this personally, it's very hard to "put yourself in new shoes". I and probably most people are guilty of this, here or in other hobbies). Though the reddit starting guide has vastly improved since I looked at it first, but still missing things, so people keep asking the same questions and arguing about the same things.


----------



## Danzo

Mikeadunne said:


> I’m 35 - colorful handles are lame. They are the affliction t shirts of the knife world.



fight me bro!


----------



## Barclid

Barashka said:


> On a forum, dedicated to knife knowledge, where people of all kinds of levels are expected to visit ... the vast majority being noobs, it's counterproductive "not liking engaging with noobs".
> I would also argue that you're not the only one and that's why the knife world has a relatively steep learning curve, or at least the 'new user experience' is pretty rough. That's tough to see being sr in a hobby (any hobby, please don't take this personally, it's very hard to "put yourself in new shoes". I and probably most people are guilty of this, here or in other hobbies). Though the reddit starting guide has vastly improved since I looked at it first, but still missing things, so people keep asking the same questions and arguing about the same things.


It's not counterproductive to not like engaging with new people. That implies that it is actively against achieving a desired outcome. It doesn't; it's non-participation. That would also imply that the main purpose of this forum is to educate new people. It's not; it's for knife enthusiasts to discuss a variety of topics. There is no rule, explicit or otherwise, that states that you must share what knowledge you have with people you don't like interacting with.


----------



## Xenif

valgard said:


> 180 gyutos are awesome, 210 gyutos are like Wednesdays



But I love Christina Ricci!


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Barashka said:


> On a forum, dedicated to knife knowledge, where people of all kinds of levels are expected to visit ... the vast majority being noobs, it's counterproductive "not liking engaging with noobs".
> I would also argue that you're not the only one and that's why the knife world has a relatively steep learning curve, or at least the 'new user experience' is pretty rough. That's tough to see being sr in a hobby (any hobby, please don't take this personally, it's very hard to "put yourself in new shoes". I and probably most people are guilty of this, here or in other hobbies). Though the reddit starting guide has vastly improved since I looked at it first, but still missing things, so people keep asking the same questions and arguing about the same things.


Ironically, I like new members as it brings new minds into the hobby and new people to share the joy of the hobby. I agree with all you wrote too. 

My only issue, and this goes in real life (face-to-face) interactions as well, is if you are new (lets say less than a year), don't be a know-it-all, smarky, wiseazz, judgmental, d-bag. Just like in real life, sit back and observe your surroundings and come across easy going. I know with Covid19 going on it brought a lot of new members...great! A few of them need to check themselves, and the interactions they decide to engage in; some just aren't worth getting into. If you have confrontational opinions, best keep them to yourselves until you get more established on this forum.


----------



## JBroida

Danzo said:


> fight me bro!View attachment 87241


i owned that shirt back in the day


----------



## Barashka

A few more!
- conversations by passionate people on the internet rarely actually change opinions 
- having so many Kickstarter knives is a great thing .. even though most are kinda meh, it means people are trying to improve the field.
- Chinese Alibaba knives in 20 years will be fine knives and will easily rival anything within 2x price range made elsewhere.


----------



## Michi

Food that isn’t beige is inedible.


----------



## stringer

Your knife doesn't suck, it is your technique. You either don't know how to use it or you don't know how to maintain it. 

I've seen people do amazing stuff with Dexters and Mercers and whatever crappy brand the knife service happens to be using.

For me, nothing I have tried feels more like MY knife than my Shi.han.


----------



## Barashka

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> If you have confrontational opinions


I see where you're coming from and I agree for social reasons, but food for thought: one does not become a flat earther to try to argue with a flat earther.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Barashka said:


> I see where you're coming from and I agree for social reasons, but food for thought: one does not become a flat earther to try to argue with a flat earther.


I'm not referring to arguing, for example, the best 1k grit stone. I'm only referring to confrontational social interactions. No food for thought needed.


----------



## ian

stringer said:


> Your knife doesn't suck, it is your technique. You either don't know how to use it or you don't know how to maintain it.



B**chy stringer is a whole new thing! It feels totally normal to read Barclid cr*pping on things, but I can't take it from you, even though that's the whole point of this thread.  I think this speaks to how measured and informative your posts always are.


----------



## brotondo

I just want food for my belly


----------



## M1k3

Pants.


----------



## ian

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Ironically, I like new members as it brings new minds into the hobby and new people to share the joy of the hobby. I agree with all you wrote too.
> 
> My only issue, and this goes in real life (face-to-face) interactions as well, is if you are new (lets say less than a year), don't be a know-it-all, smarky, wiseazz, judgmental, d-bag. Just like in real life, sit back and observe your surroundings and come across easy going. I know with Covid19 going on it brought a lot of new members...great! A few of them need to check themselves, and the interactions they decide to engage in; some just aren't worth getting into. If you have confrontational opinions, best keep them to yourselves until you get more established on this forum.



I hear this a lot from people nowadays and in many specific cases I agree. Seems like everyone needs to go through a phase of trying to change the BST rules before eventually realizing that they're quite good and reasonable, and that the moderators are very wise. But hey, it's a rite of passage.

I do hear a lot of more establish members use a sort of patronizing tone to dismiss legitimate concerns that new members have, though. Sometimes, new members have a different take on something because of different life or political views, not because of inexperience. For instance, some of the recent confrontations over PC language have been over the top, but many of them stem from (sometimes new) members wanting this forum to be more accepting of different kinds of people, and that's just fine in my book. It's possible to preserve the quality and value of the forum while trying to alienate certain groups of people less. I see many more women posting "New Member" posts than I do contributing in the long term, and there may be a reason for that.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

ian said:


> I hear this a lot from people nowadays and in many specific cases I agree. Seems like everyone needs to go through a phase of trying to change the BST rules before eventually realizing that they're quite good and reasonable, and that the moderators are very wise. But hey, it's a rite of passage.
> 
> I do hear a lot of more establish members use a sort of patronizing tone to dismiss legitimate concerns that new members have, though. Sometimes, new members have a different take on something because of different life or political views, not because of inexperience. For instance, some of the recent confrontations over PC language have been over the top, but many of them stem from (sometimes new) members wanting this forum to be more accepting of different kinds of people, and that's just fine in my book. It's possible to preserve the quality and value of the forum while trying to alienate certain groups of people less. I see many more women posting "New Member" posts than I do contributing in the long term, and there may be a reason for that.


I agree with all you wrote and still stand by what I wrote. We are all flawed humans and always will be. Someone will always be offended, take my stance for example, so you can never make everyone happy. This forum started for hobbiest and love for kitchen knives. The founder, Dave,, is a business owner for sharpening knives. Jim helped him start it. We were all over at knifeforums.com/In The Kitchen before this place. Over the years its grown to be global, and quite a few in the profession of using kitchen knives. I think this is a good thing. Nothing posted on this site is bad...trust me I'm on gun forums and this place is lighthearted compared to that. If you have a problem that may be confrontational, take it to a private conversation, inform a mod if you are not comfortable, be noncomfrontational if you make it public, or be quiet. Same as real life. Not sure why this isn't obvious other than people can hide behind a screen name on the internet.


----------



## captaincaed

Most new members commit a few cardinal sins myself included.

talking out of their ass about how their knife performs before they’ve used many or cook in bulk.
assuming that cooking a few big meals at home somehow simulates prep experience and a professional kitchen.
Disagreeing with other peoples experience instead of simply asking a question and trying something out or reading more on the topic after being directed. 
All this said new members have a right to ask stupid questions that’s what makes them beginners.




4. Putting a colorful handle on a perfectly good.knife.


----------



## captaincaed

When replying, it's nice to Imagine the person you're responding to is sitting in front of you. When you receive a comment, try to assume the other person is trying to doing so.


----------



## Barashka

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> this place is lighthearted compared to that


+1 for that. Even with several hot topics ... and this entire thread, this is a pretty nice place to be compared to say Leage of Legend chat, or something like /r/conservative

Is it controversial to say that even the most controversial topics we have aren't really that egregious?


----------



## stringer

ian said:


> B**chy stringer is a whole new thing! It feels totally normal to read Barclid cr*pping on things, but I can't take it from you, even though that's the whole point of this thread.  I think this speaks to how measured and informative your posts always are.



I couldn't resist. I do try and restrain my bitchiness as a general rule but I have been teaching speech and debate camp to high schoolers over zoom for the last few weeks along with taking a bunch of classes. I'm getting too tired to be nice. 

So thanks to whomever started this wonderful thread. I have really enjoyed it thus far. Hopefully we can have fun without hurting anyone's feelings too much.


----------



## Barmoley

stringer said:


> I couldn't resist. I do try and restrain my bitchiness as a general rule but I have been teaching speech and debate camp to high schoolers over zoom for the last few weeks along with taking a bunch of classes. I'm getting too tired to be nice.
> 
> So thanks to whomever started this wonderful thread. I have really enjoyed it thus far. Hopefully we can have fun without hurting anyone's feelings too much.


I like bitchy stringer, makes you more real, not just a sharpening and cutting machine


----------



## Bensbites

ian said:


> B**chy stringer is a whole new thing! It feels totally normal to read Barclid cr*pping on things, but I can't take it from you, even though that's the whole point of this thread.  I think this speaks to how measured and informative your posts always are.


Bitchy... you haven’t lived in masshole land long enough. I considered his response tame.


----------



## ian

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I agree with all you wrote and still stand by what I wrote. We are all flawed humans and always will be. Someone will always be offended, take my stance for example, so you can never make everyone happy. This forum started for hobbiest and love for kitchen knives. The founder, Dave,, is a business owner for sharpening knives. Jim helped him start it. We were all over at knifeforums.com/In The Kitchen before this place. Over the years its grown to be global, and quite a few in the profession of using kitchen knives. I think this is a good thing. Nothing posted on this site is bad...trust me I'm on gun forums and this place is lighthearted compared to that. If you have a problem that may be confrontational, take it to a private conversation, inform a mod if you are not comfortable, be noncomfrontational if you make it public, or be quiet. Same as real life. Not sure why this isn't obvious other than people can hide behind a screen name on the internet.



All very true, except that I think it can be appropriate and more effective to reply in a thread vs a pm, as long as you do it respectfully. It’s true that with some recent examples, the objection was not raised in a respectful way, which was unfortunate, counterproductive and rude. But if you reply in the thread, you indicate to others that may also feel uncomfortable with the way things are that they’re not alone, and you can start to affect the general culture of the place. Sending a PM only tells that one person (out of 22k or whatever) that you’d rather they do something different next time.



captaincaed said:


> When replying, it's nice to Imagine the person you're responding to is sitting in front of you. When you receive a comment, try to assume the other person is trying to doing so.



Yes.


----------



## Nagakin

Noodle Soup said:


> A little rocker in the edge of a real Chinese cleaver is a good thing.


Not just a good thing, but necessary too. Too flat a cleaver and too high a counter is why people develop that nerve shake. Ergonomics are unpopular I guess...


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

ian said:


> All very true, except that I think it can be appropriate and more effective to reply in a thread vs a pm, as long as you do it respectfully. It’s true that with some recent examples, the objection was not raised in a respectful way, which was unfortunate, counterproductive and rude. But if you reply in the thread, you indicate to others that may also feel uncomfortable with the way things are that they’re not alone, and you can start to affect the general culture of the place. Sending a PM only tells that one person (out of 22k or whatever) that you’d rather they do something different next time.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.


It tells the one person who committed the offense, which is the intent. Good post.


----------



## WildBoar

ian said:


> I see many more women posting "New Member" posts than I do contributing in the long term, and there may be a reason for that.


Because they are too smart to spend $$$$$$$$ amassing way more kitchen knives then a sane person would have?


----------



## ian

WildBoar said:


> Because they are too smart to spend $$$$$$$$ amassing way more kitchen knives then a sane person would have?



Ssh, I’m in denial about the fact that men are idiots.


----------



## ian

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> It tells the one person who committed the offense, which is the intent. Good post.



Yea, I guess I just think that if offenses are public and objections are private, you have an asymmetry that indicates to the reader of the forum that the offenses aren’t offensive to anyone. But what do I know, I’m just an idiot who spends all his time thinking about g****mn kitchen knives.


----------



## Nagakin

stringer said:


> I couldn't resist. I do try and restrain my bitchiness as a general rule but I have been teaching speech and debate camp to high schoolers over zoom for the last few weeks along with taking a bunch of classes. I'm getting too tired to be nice.
> 
> So thanks to whomever started this wonderful thread. I have really enjoyed it thus far. Hopefully we can have fun without hurting anyone's feelings too much.


It's completely fair to say that there's a skill gap, though. Tbh, that's the hardest thing to not point out. People don't understand that the average day on the job is usually more than a month of knife work at home...and that's assuming you're cooking for a family.

A minor adjustment for a pro can be a real learning curve for a home cook, but most people don't want to admit that or would rather throw $$ at their ridiculous specifications instead of putting the work in.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

ian said:


> Yea, I guess I just think that if offenses are public and objections are private, you have an asymmetry that indicates to the reader of the forum that the offenses aren’t offensive. But what do I know, I’m just an idiot who spends all his time thinking about g****mn kitchen knives.


Its a good talk and thinking. I'm a believer in "praise in public, punish in private".


----------



## ian

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Its a good talk and thinking. I'm a believer in "praise in public, punish in private".



Hey, we’re into BDSM too! 

Edit: sorry, I have a hard time staying in serious mode too long.


----------



## captaincaed

Nagakin said:


> It's completely fair to say that there's a skill gap, though. Tbh, that's the hardest thing to not point out. People don't understand that the average day on the job is usually more than a month of knife work at home...and that's assuming you're cooking for a family.
> 
> A minor adjustment for a pro can be a real learning curve for a home cook, but most people don't want to admit that or would rather throw $$ at their ridiculous specifications instead of putting the work in.


I was really guilty of this for a while. Probably still am sometimes.

I hope the real cooks and chefs still want to pipe up. I learn a ton there.


----------



## ian

Nagakin said:


> It's completely fair to say that there's a skill gap, though. Tbh, that's the hardest thing to not point out. People don't understand that the average day on the job is usually more than a month of knife work at home...and that's assuming you're cooking for a family.
> 
> A minor adjustment for a pro can be a real learning curve for a home cook, but most people don't want to admit that or would rather throw $$ at their ridiculous specifications instead of putting the work in.



Totally fair. I’m aware that while my knife skills are probably in the top .1% of home users, I just don’t have nearly the amount of practice that many of you have, and am not as fast or precise in many of my movements. This is especially true for things that I only do once in a while. I may have contributed a “take apart a chicken” vid to the knife skills thread, but it probably takes me 10 times as long to bone a whole bird as it does those of you that do it professionally*. Hats off.

*that’s what the aspiring animal molester said.


----------



## OnionSlicer

Magnetic knife strips are space inefficient and look tacky.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

OnionSlicer said:


> Magnetic knife strips are space inefficient and look tacky.


Tacky is subjective, so whatever. Space inefficient? I don't get that, that is their purpose.


----------



## stringer

I got one more.

"Sexy" choil shots are a major turn off for me.

Why would anyone want a razor thin ground heel on a gyuto?


----------



## ian

stringer said:


> I got one more.
> 
> "Sexy" choil shots are a major turn off for me.
> 
> Why would anyone want a razor thin ground heel on a gyuto?



Often, I’m completely mystified why a person says a particular choil is sexy.


----------



## TSF415

ian said:


> Often, I’m completely mystified why a person says a particular choil is sexy.


Because some choils are sexy. duhhhh. Why else?


----------



## TSF415

stringer said:


> I got one more.
> 
> "Sexy" choil shots are a major turn off for me.
> 
> Why would anyone want a razor thin ground heel on a gyuto?



I like my choils with curves, no bean poles for me


----------



## OnionSlicer

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Tacky is subjective, so whatever. Space inefficient? I don't get that, that is their purpose.



And here I thought their purpose is to proudly display knives that nobody but their owner cares about.

In terms of space, they are essentially a 2D solution. Add one more dimension to the storage, and you can put half a wall's worth of knives into what regular people call "a knife block".


----------



## Nagakin

ian said:


> Often, I’m completely mystified why a person says a particular choil is sexy.


to mock lefties


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

OnionSlicer said:


> And here I thought their purpose is to proudly display knives that nobody but their owner cares about.
> 
> In terms of space, they are essentially a 2D solution. Add one more dimension to the storage, and you can put half a wall's worth of knives into what regular people call "a knife block".


Sure, but a knife block takes up valuable counter space for some with limited counter space. I have 100 knives probably, but only have about 4 in my kitchen at one time. I have lots of counter space but no need for a block.


----------



## stringer

I have a drawer knife block in my kitchen. But I prefer magnetic strips in my knife room.


----------



## ian

stringer said:


> I have a drawer knife block in my kitchen. But I prefer magnetic strips in my knife room.
> 
> View attachment 87259



Where’s the rake?


----------



## ExistentialHero

stringer said:


> I have a drawer knife block in my kitchen. But I prefer magnetic strips in my knife room.
> 
> View attachment 87259



Potato masher is best knife.


----------



## Rangen

Let's see, what are my unpopular opinions? Should be pretty easy, I'm a cleaver guy in a knife forum.

- Most jobs done with the non-pointy part of a gyuto would be better done with a Chinese cleaver
- Nakiris want to be Chinese cleavers when they grow up
- G10 and the like are really good materials for knife handles


----------



## soigne_west

ExistentialHero said:


> Potato masher is best knife.



the Forgecrafts disagree


----------



## Rangen

One more unpopular opinion:

Magnetic knife racks are stupid*

* Does not apply if you live in an area that could never, ever have a major earthquake


----------



## ian

OnionSlicer said:


> And here I thought their purpose is to proudly display knives that nobody but their owner cares about.



Yes! Everytime I go into my kitchen, I see my knife strip and am happy. Who cares if anyone else appreciates them.






For those interested, this is my entire current collection (technically minus a Y. Tanaka / Yohei that’s on loan): from left to right, $15 Tojiro bread knife, 240 Kippington honyaki workpony, 240 TF mab, Heiji 180x40 ss petty, Gesshin Uraku 210 stainless, Shun paring, Shigeki Tanaka ginsan 150 petty, Wat nakiri, Gesshin Heiji 150mm ss honesuki.

Ok, maybe I do care if someone appreciates them. But that’s why I have y’all.


----------



## stringer

ExistentialHero said:


> Potato masher is best knife.



That potato masher was broken and getting thrown away at work. I saved it and restored it. Someday it will find its forever home in a soup kitchen or homeless shelter.


----------



## ian

Rangen said:


> One more unpopular opinion:
> 
> Magnetic knife racks are stupid*
> 
> * Does not apply if you live in an area that could never, ever have a major earthquake



I think it would take at least a magnitude 7 earthquake centered on my house to knock the knives off my strip... Never going to happen in Boston, and if it does, it’d knock down any knife block I had too. But you must be a Californian.

I was living in Santa Clara during the ‘89 quake. That was memorable.


----------



## Rangen

ian said:


> I think it would take at least a magnitude 7 earthquake centered on my house to knock the knives off my strip... Never going to happen in Boston, and if it does, it’d knock down any knife block I had too. But you must be a Californian.
> 
> I was living in Santa Clara during the ‘89 quake. That was memorable.



I am indeed a Californian. A quake here moved my full 260 bottle wine fridge about three feet. I was lucky that the forces were not in the direction that would have opened the door and destroyed all that wine. But before that I was a Seattleite, and we had a nice 7.0 or thereabouts. 

Trust me, a 6.0 quake 10 miles away, with the forces in the right (wrong) direction, would take every knife off of your strip, depending on what sort of material is under your foundation.


----------



## ExistentialHero

stringer said:


> That potato masher was broken and getting thrown away at work. I saved it and restored it. Someday it will find its forever home in a soup kitchen or homeless shelter.



Sure, but where's the choil shot?


----------



## ian

Rangen said:


> I am indeed a Californian. A quake here moved my full 260 bottle wine fridge about three feet. I was lucky that the forces were not in the direction that would have opened the door and destroyed all that wine. But before that I was a Seattleite, and we had a nice 7.0 or thereabouts.
> 
> Trust me, a 6.0 quake 10 miles away, with the forces in the right (wrong) direction, would take every knife off of your strip, depending on what sort of material is under your foundation.



Yea, I was being dramatic, and I believe you. I guess I have the luxury of living somewhere that never has such quakes. Good luck in your search for non knife-bars.


----------



## Rangen

ian said:


> Yea, I was being dramatic, and I believe you. I guess I have the luxury of living somewhere that never has such quakes. Good luck in your search for non knife-bars.



It's not so easy, but there are ways. Note the garish handles I was obliquely defending earlier.


----------



## Rangen

Choil shot of a _proper_ potato masher. The proper ones rust.


----------



## ian

That’s not a potato masher. This is a potato masher.


----------



## Twigg

ian said:


> That’s not a potato masher. This is a potato masher.
> 
> View attachment 87263


My, what hairy knuckles you have!


----------



## ExistentialHero

ian said:


> That’s not a potato masher. This is a potato masher.
> 
> View attachment 87263


----------



## ian

Twigg said:


> My, what hairy knuckles you have!



This one’s particularly hairy.


----------



## Barashka

ian said:


> This one’s particularly hairy


Damn, and I'm out of hair on my arms to try how sharp my knives are ...


----------



## panda

stringer said:


> I have a drawer knife block in my kitchen. But I prefer magnetic strips in my knife room.
> 
> View attachment 87259


nice chelsea miller knife next to that nakiri


----------



## panda

Twigg said:


> My, what hairy knuckles you have!


that's what i said to some lady at the beach, she ran away crying in shame.


----------



## panda

ebony and flamboyant handles are whack.


----------



## stringer

panda said:


> nice chelsea miller knife next to that nakiri



It's yours for $350.


----------



## parbaked

panda said:


> ebony and flamboyant handles are whack.


Unless they're made with shredded cash...


----------



## esoo

stringer said:


> ... in my knife room.



That is a winning quote for KKF.


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> ebony and flamboyant handles are whack.


Ebony, mmm... Sexy... Classy.


----------



## stringer

This is fun!

Jnats are overrated

This is my once a month touch up ritual for shi.han. it's a piece of soft Arkansas I got on eBay for $11 all in. 

It's probably the only sharpening stone the knife has seen in over a year.


----------



## ian

I like the one jnat I have, which is an uchimugori from nutmeg that I only use for polishing. But otherwise, synths rule, jnats drool!

Gesshin 4k is the word, the life, and the breath.


----------



## panda

Jville said:


> Ebony, mmm... Sexy... Classy.


was this in Gordon voice?


----------



## panda

redskins changing their name is ****ing stupid.


----------



## captaincaed

stringer said:


> This is fun!
> 
> Jnats are overrated
> 
> This is my once a month touch up ritual for shi.han. it's a piece of soft Arkansas I got on eBay for $11 all in.
> 
> It's probably the only sharpening stone the knife has seen in over a year.



Thanks for always posting videos.
There are too many lazy ****ers not posting video. 

And yeah it ain't Kasumi Kev but damn, that'll do pig.


----------



## Ruso

Football is played with a ball and feet, not with hands and an egg.


----------



## WildBoar

panda said:


> redskins changing their name is ****ing stupid.


Red Pandas
Red Pandas
Red Pandas
Red Pandas


----------



## stringer

Kanehide may be the best bang for your buck knives on the planet.


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> was this in Gordon voice?


I was thinking Barry White.


----------



## Jville

Ruso said:


> And all toyama Nakiris wish they were 1/2 the beast my Gransfors axe is.
> Not sure what’s your point is man. Sorry if my joke offended you, it was not my intention.


Im soooo not that sensitive man. I thought we were having some fun and doing some trash talking. Isn't this thread supposed to not be sensitive? Plus, if you haven't noticed you are not the only one to hate on nakiris. It was just an easy quote to pull. I'm serious about my 210 toyama being a beast referring to processing veggies in a kitchen, not cutting down small trees or firewood. I thought that would be apparent but ugh... guess not. I'm quite sure it would smoke your Gransfors Axes in the kitchen, just incase that needed to be said. Anyways, I'm the anti preference type I like them all shapes and sizes. I personally don't care what people don't like as it relates to what I like. It's their preferences and opinions, and they can like or not like what they want. The first 7 pages of this thread were so much better.


----------



## Ruso

Jville said:


> Im soooo not that sensitive man. I thought we were having some fun and doing some trash talking. Isn't this thread supposed to not be sensitive? Plus, if you haven't noticed you are not the only one to hate on nakiris. It was just an easy quote to pull. I'm serious about my 210 toyama being a beast referring to processing veggies in a kitchen, not cutting down small trees or firewood. I thought that would be apparent but ugh... guess not. I'm quite sure it would smoke your Gransfors Axes in the kitchen, just incase that needed to be said. Anyways, I'm the anti preference type I like them all shapes and sizes. I personally don't care what people don't like as it relates to what I like. It's their preferences and opinions, and they can like or not like what they want. The first 7 pages of this thread were so much better.



So many words to say nothing? Clap Clap!

P.S. Completely agree on your last sentence though. I guess my previous statement is wrong then  , oh well.


----------



## Jville

Ruso said:


> So many words to say nothing? Clap Clap!
> 
> P.S. Completely agree on your last sentence though. I guess my previous statement is wrong then  , oh well.


Not sure why you feel I said nothing with the rest of my words. But, anyways, I wasn't offended before. Now I am, but whatev moving on.


----------



## Corradobrit1

panda said:


> nice chelsea miller knife next to that nakiri


Must be her new sujihiki model


----------



## Dhoff

stringer said:


> I have a drawer knife block in my kitchen. But I prefer magnetic strips in my knife room.
> 
> View attachment 87259



This looks like the bastard child whet dream of a tool-shed, cool kitchen and torture chamber


----------



## Jville

My new Chelsea Miller just came in today, super pumped!


----------



## cotedupy

esoo said:


> That is a winning quote for KKF.



Verdad!

Now I want a knife room. More specifically... I want Stringer's knife room.


----------



## cotedupy

(Also- what others have said. This forum is a comparative joy compared to others regarding different things. That a thread like this can happen, and be taken for the fun that it is, is refreshing. Keep 'em coming!)


----------



## dafox

A pinch grip is stupid!


----------



## Barmoley

dafox said:


> A pinch grip is stupid!


Please explain, or is explanation of opinions is not part of this thread?


----------



## Dhoff

A hamon has no purpose even aesthetically since it will be covered by patina anyways! (the exclamation mark makes it extra unpopular)


----------



## KingShapton

Migraine said:


> People on this forum don't like colourful handles because they're over fifty and boring


This is not always the case ... I'm (still) under 50 ... and I don't like colored handles ... and I'm not boring ... I just have good taste


----------



## Carl Kotte

ian said:


> Yes! Everytime I go into my kitchen, I see my knife strip and am happy. Who cares if anyone else appreciates them.
> 
> View attachment 87260
> 
> 
> For those interested, this is my entire current collection (technically minus a Y. Tanaka / Yohei that’s on loan): from left to right, $15 Tojiro bread knife, 240 Kippington honyaki workpony, 240 TF mab, Heiji 180x40 ss petty, Gesshin Uraku 210 stainless, Shun paring, Shigeki Tanaka ginsan 150 petty, Wat nakiri, Gesshin Heiji 150mm ss honesuki.
> 
> Ok, maybe I do care if someone appreciates them. But that’s why I have y’all.


So, what Do you want to sell me?


----------



## panda

Migraine said:


> People on this forum don't like colourful handles because they're over fifty and boring


if i stated the real reason, the mods would have a heart attack and a lot of people would be offended.


----------



## esoo

stringer said:


> This is fun!
> 
> Jnats are overrated
> 
> This is my once a month touch up ritual for shi.han. it's a piece of soft Arkansas I got on eBay for $11 all in.
> 
> It's probably the only sharpening stone the knife has seen in over a year.




Love the freehand sharpening - makes me want to try this with a 6x1 coticule I have.

Also makes we want to buy a shi.han, but that is a different story.


----------



## ian

stringer said:


> Your knife doesn't suck, it is your technique. You either don't know how to use it or you don't know how to maintain it.
> 
> I've seen people do amazing stuff with Dexters and Mercers and whatever crappy brand the knife service happens to be using.
> 
> For me, nothing I have tried feels more like MY knife than my Shi.han.




What do you like about your Shihan? I’m assuming it’s not the grind, since it’s heavily modified. Steel, profile, etc...?

Also, what are you making with 10 billion onions?? I thought you were a home cook for the time being.


----------



## Carl Kotte

@ian Since This is the anarchy thread at the moment: How do you like that TF! (Stay on topic while answering: please be unpopular!).


----------



## stringer

esoo said:


> Love the freehand sharpening - makes me want to try this with a 6x1 coticule I have.
> 
> Also makes we want to buy a shi.han, but that is a different story.



coticules/belgian blues also work great for in-hand on-the-fly touch-ups. I used a ceramic rod for years. 



ian said:


> What do you like about your Shihan? I’m assuming it’s not the grind, since it’s heavily modified. Steel, profile, etc...?
> 
> Also, what are you making with 10 billion onions?? I thought you were a home cook for the time being.



I actually love the grind of the Shi.han. I did my usual modifications of thinning the tip and thickening the heel and zeroing out the microbevel. But I really like the profile and basic geometry. Thick at the spine, thin behind the edge. The steel is durable as hell. Makes my Watanabe feel dainty. It has heft but is still extremely maneuverable. Those onions were actually just for a garnish. Crispy onions for daal. If I had to change one thing about it I would move the handle up about 1cm. The gap between the handle and the choil is slightly larger than I prefer. But that is only something that has bothered me at work when I was chopping all day long. At home it has never bothered me.


----------



## riba

stringer said:


> This is fun!
> 
> Jnats are overrated
> 
> This is my once a month touch up ritual for shi.han. it's a piece of soft Arkansas I got on eBay for $11 all in.
> 
> It's probably the only sharpening stone the knife has seen in over a year.



I do the same with an odd coticule (cheap, small but cool thingy). I have the impression that it actually improves my sharpening, as I can feel the lateral movements of the stone in my hand (implying that I am sharpening somewhere else on the knife then where I think I am sharpening  It helps me with better following the profile of the knife ).

(Note: simple homecook, and humble sharpener here...)


----------



## Corradobrit1

Who cares about gaudy colorful handles when a blade of this calbre is attached. No way I'd kick it out of bed


----------



## ian




----------



## Barclid

Corradobrit1 said:


> Who cares about gaudy colorful handles when a blade of this calbre is attached. No way I'd kick it out of bedView attachment 87352


What a uh... Classy... Ashi...


----------



## The Edge

You should learn to sharpen on cheap stainless. It would fix a lot of problems you encounter, rather than jumping to simple carbon.

I've never had grip issues with a glass smooth handle. Those that do, probably have too tight a grip, and maybe a stick up their wazoo (first part of the statement is true, the last is a joke).

Utilizing burls in handles is eco friendly. Those that want plane wood are using up precious natural resources that could be better utilized building houses for the poor. Like why bleach your a$$hole, when you could learn to appreciate the natural color and character already there.


----------



## tchan001

Corradobrit1 said:


> No way I'd kick it out of bed


If you don't like what she has on, you can take it off when you get in bed with her and make sure she wears something else in the morning.


----------



## daddy yo yo

I couldn’t care less about some people’s affection with choil shots...


----------



## ian

The Edge said:


> Utilizing burls in handles is eco friendly. Those that want plane wood are using up precious natural resources that could be better utilized building houses for the poor. Like why bleach your a$$hole, when you could learn to appreciate the natural color and character already there.



I feel suitably shamed. 

*googling bleach reversal*


----------



## SHOWERDOOKIE

ian said:


> I feel suitably shamed.
> 
> *googling bleach reversal*



just force a patina


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

I personally love colorful and burl rich handles. Shows the makers creativity, which is one if the things im paying for. The only time I would hesitate to order one, is if I were using someone else's credit card on here to pay for it. Doors open.


----------



## brotondo

The Edge said:


> You should learn to sharpen on cheap stainless. It would fix a lot of problems you encounter, rather than jumping to simple carbon.
> 
> I've never had grip issues with a glass smooth handle. Those that do, probably have too tight a grip, and maybe a stick up their wazoo (first part of the statement is true, the last is a joke).
> 
> Utilizing burls in handles is eco friendly. Those that want plane wood are using up precious natural resources that could be better utilized building houses for the poor. Like why bleach your a$$hole, when you could learn to appreciate the natural color and character already there.


Be careful, I got reprimanded last time I brought up the forbidden grip


----------



## Barclid

The Edge said:


> Like why bleach your a$$hole, when you could learn to appreciate the natural color and character already there.



Gotta get that terroir when performing a2m.


----------



## Mariner

daddy yo yo said:


> I couldn’t care less about some people’s affection with choil shots...



Same, but only when I'm trying to sell a doorstop as a "piece of art"


----------



## jacko9

I have purchased over 20 Jknives over the past 5 years and I've come to realize that any one of the ones I bought would have done the kitchen job for me. The first one I purchased from Tosho Knife Arts was a 240mm Konosuke HD2 Gyuto and that would have done the job of all the others including Kato's, Shig's, Toyama's, Watanabe's, Kono Fujiyama's and Mazaki's to name a few of my other knives.


----------



## esoo

jacko9 said:


> I have purchased over 20 Jknives over the past 5 years and I've come to realize that any one of the ones I bought would have done the kitchen job for me. The first one I purchased from Tosho Knife Arts was a 240mm Konosuke HD2 Gyuto and that would have done the job of all the others including Kato's, Shig's, Toyama's, Watanabe's, Kono Fujiyama's and Mazaki's to name a few of my other knives.



Do you think that would've been the same if you'd started with another knife?

I got my HD2 210 in March, and it's now my favorite knife.


----------



## jacko9

esoo said:


> Do you think that would've been the same if you'd started with another knife?
> 
> I got my HD2 210 in March, and it's now my favorite knife.



I was trying to say that all of my knives are good to very good but, I could have stopped at the KD2 if I had known better.


----------



## John O

jacko9 said:


> I was trying to say that all of my knives are good to very good but, I could have stopped at the KD2 if I had known better.



I bought my first Japanese knife earlier this year: a Munetoshi gyuto. I've been super happy with its cutting performance so far, but because I'm part of this forum I've been fantasizing about getting a "better" knife (Watanabe Pro, TF Mab, Kono Fuji). I'm aware of the law of diminishing returns, but is there anything that make those knives objectively better than my Munetoshi, other than just being another knife?


----------



## ian

John O said:


> I bought my first Japanese knife earlier this year: a Munetoshi gyuto. I've been super happy with its cutting performance so far, but because I'm part of this forum I've been fantasizing about getting a "better" knife (Watanabe Pro, TF Mab, Kono Fuji). I'm aware of the law of diminishing returns, but is there anything that make those knives objectively better than my Munetoshi, other than just being another knife?



TF steel is freakin awesome. Watanabe has a great grind and just cuts really well. Kono Fuji is probably very nice as well, if hyped.


----------



## jacko9

John O said:


> I bought my first Japanese knife earlier this year: a Munetoshi gyuto. I've been super happy with its cutting performance so far, but because I'm part of this forum I've been fantasizing about getting a "better" knife (Watanabe Pro, TF Mab, Kono Fuji). I'm aware of the law of diminishing returns, but is there anything that make those knives objectively better than my Munetoshi, other than just being another knife?


I searching how to measure "objectively better" I mean yeah my Kato has a very nice grind, my Watanabe Pro is very thin behind the edge and my Toyama just floats through food but, can I put a number on it? Also, keep in mind the topic.


----------



## Michi

Shun knives are actually quite good.


----------



## Garm

Foreplay is very important, always, even late on a Thursday,


----------



## captaincaed

John O said:


> I bought my first Japanese knife earlier this year: a Munetoshi gyuto. I've been super happy with its cutting performance so far, but because I'm part of this forum I've been fantasizing about getting a "better" knife (Watanabe Pro, TF Mab, Kono Fuji). I'm aware of the law of diminishing returns, but is there anything that make those knives objectively better than my Munetoshi, other than just being another knife?


It's a hobby. Do what you can afford for fun, resist the pull of chasing some perfect knife and enjoy the ride. But yeah they're all a little different! Also don't forget a good board will make your edges last much longer. Like matching good pen to paper.


----------



## LostHighway

Since no one thus far has been willing to touch the third rail: The diet of most of the developed world (including North America, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and most of the Caribbean countries and South America) involves far too much meat consumption, beef especially.


----------



## TSF415

captaincaed said:


> It's a hobby. Do what you can afford for fun, resist the pull of chasing some perfect knife and enjoy the ride. But yeah they're all a little different! Also don't forget a good board will make your edges last much longer. Like matching good pen to paper.


That was very poetic.


----------



## mise_en_place

LostHighway said:


> Since no one thus far has been willing to touch the third rail: The diet of most of the developed world (including North America, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and most of the Caribbean countries and South America) involves far too much meat consumption, beef especially.



Mods please ban this man.

If we didn't have beef, we'd have no gyuto.

Edit: Also, I assumed this was more about kitchen knives, not a more general topic. I'll leave mine here then: Children should be allowed to work in developed countries. We've forgotten how well their tiny hands fit into the machinery.


----------



## parbaked

Michi said:


> Shun knives are actually quite good.


OK, you buy another one...


----------



## Qapla'

mise_en_place said:


> If we didn't have beef, we'd have no gyuto.



The name 牛刀 (gyutô) itself is ridiculous, as is the Japanese assumption that it's a specialized knife for processing beef. They should've used the Cantonese name 大廚刀.


----------



## Tristan

Great thread. Mine:

The brave post food cutting videos prior to answering every advice thread, so people can make what they will of your sharpening and knife skills as you share your wisdom.

Half the people here thin their knives for no reason whatsoever

When I hear ‘modified profile‘ I see who the user is. Sometimes a crime against a good knife is committed.

Collectors reward makers and keep them in (more) business.

Carter makes excellent performing knives, regardless of how long he spends on each one. Although he should stop making handles that look like ass.

I feel shame every time I use a Yanagiba because I have no effing clue

Sharpening and polishing are different things altogether, and I wish people who were good at polishing shared even more because there are so few of you.


----------



## ian

Tristan said:


> Half the people here thin their knives for no reason whatsoever



“Every knife has a hidden laser waiting to be revealed.”

-Me, private communication


----------



## NO ChoP!

The outrageous cost to be a vendor and banning of many, many great contributors for not forking over money to be a hobbyist or vendor has left a huge void here. 

(Drops mic)


----------



## GoodMagic

NO ChoP! said:


> The outrageous cost to be a vendor and banning of many, many great contributors for not forking over money to be a hobbyist or vendor has left a huge void here.
> 
> (Drops mic)


Agreed!


----------



## bahamaroot

LostHighway said:


> Since no one thus far has been willing to touch the third rail: The diet of most of the developed world (including North America, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and most of the Caribbean countries and South America) involves far too much meat consumption, beef especially.


You're right, that is a very unpopular opinion.


----------



## Jville

John O said:


> I bought my first Japanese knife earlier this year: a Munetoshi gyuto. I've been super happy with its cutting performance so far, but because I'm part of this forum I've been fantasizing about getting a "better" knife (Watanabe Pro, TF Mab, Kono Fuji). I'm aware of the law of diminishing returns, but is there anything that make those knives objectively better than my Munetoshi, other than just being another knife?


We should do you a favor and tell you nope, it's never going to get any better than your Munetoshi. That it is perfect in every way and you will by no means greatly enjoy trying the knives you mentioned above and a slew of others. But if that were true this forum wouldn't exist and all these knife nerds, freaks, collectors would have one nice trusty chef knife. But if you just walked away, you could probably live happily ever after with just your Munetoshi, unless you've already been infected. In that case it's probably too late for you.


parbaked said:


> OK, you buy another one...


Got him.


----------



## panda

LostHighway said:


> Since no one thus far has been willing to touch the third rail: The diet of most of the developed world (including North America, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and most of the Caribbean countries and South America) involves far too much meat consumption, beef especially.


meat good nom nom


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> meat good nom nom


That's what sea said!


----------



## Barclid

This thread is dying a slow death. Where's the fire? The angst?


----------



## Jville

That thing in the beginning of the thread about only a couple of Western makers are good. I'm not buying that. If someones really tried them all and has got a story to tell them I'm all ears. Just saying you tried a bunch doesn't mean there isn't a bunch of others.


----------



## Customfan

You dont need that nany knives to cook well....

just a few, well picked blades will suffice ....


----------



## KingShapton

mise_en_place said:


> If we didn't have beef, we'd have no gyuto.


In this case, more people would learn to appreciate the Chinese cleaver


----------



## Ryndunk

Most food should never be sous vide. Steaks especially.


----------



## Michi

Ryndunk said:


> Most food should never be sous vide. Steaks especially.


If you want to be unpopular, you are going about it the right way!


----------



## Michi

Truffles are grossly overrated.


----------



## M1k3

Michi said:


> Truffles are grossly overrated.


Vegemite too.


----------



## M1k3

Barclid said:


> This thread is dying a slow death. Where's the fire? The angst?


The "Rrrreeeeeeeeee!- Barclid"?


----------



## captaincaed

Barclid said:


> This thread is dying a slow death. Where's the fire? The angst?


Any knife comparison that doesn't involve a spread of knives and or things to cut to demonstrate *contrast* is essentially a useless exercise.
Knifesturbation.


----------



## Ben.G.

I don’t think patina is something to get excited about.


----------



## mack

Stropping on leather ist the most stupid thing you can do to your kitchen knives. 

Mack.


----------



## Dhoff

Gourmet food is another word for unedible **** marketed as innovative with an inflated price (to me).

Case in point, Dinner served with:

Asparagus in a pot. The waiter nicely informed us the "dirt" was edible though it would taste and crunch like dirt. An asparagus cream in the bottom was ... ok. Why ruin the dish with something that tastes and has the consistency of dirt?

Raw razer shell mussel, sprinkled with whipped snail slime (I kid you not) and burnt hay (another customer kindly asked a waiter what it was to which he answered, hay burnt in a barrel).

Ice cream over which were poured warm green tea making the icecream pretty much a green tea sludge.

Two other dishes were delicious redfish and calf tongue. But holy cow was the other 3 inedible to me.


----------



## Michi

M1k3 said:


> Vegemite too.


Now you've done it!


----------



## Matus

Fraction of meaningful, on-topic discussions has been in a decline since several years. I am wondering whether we discussed all there was to discuss and should go and find a new hobby.


----------



## KingShapton

Matus said:


> Fraction of meaningful, on-topic discussions has been in a decline since several years. I am wondering whether we discussed all there was to discuss and should go and find a new hobby.


I am just imagining mass sales in the BST when all members are looking for a new hobby and selling all their knives and stones .....


----------



## Iggy

Unpopular opinion? That's easy...

Kato Workhorse's steel is rubbish... nice profile and geo but that's about it... thats only for the Gyutos... Kato Workhorse KU Nakiri was below average in every aspect compared to others...
Kato Standard only average in every aspect...

both lines are totally overrated and hyped knives.
You want the best Japan can offer? Buy a Denka, Heiji or one of the established Sakai makers.

And yes, I had quite a few of all of them over the years... only regret selling because nowadays, I could get more $ for them


----------



## captaincaed

BST is the heart of the forum and there's more interest in protecting assets than experimenting and sharing info.
@Barclid happy now *****?


----------



## zizirex

members here is a die-hard fan of a store that is supporting & supported this forum, even though there is a much better choice in other stores that do not affiliate in this forum.
some of the stores create a hype that is so crazy, sometimes the hype is just like Schrodinger's cat.

hope that fuel up the thread.


----------



## Dhoff

Sometimes certain knives create a lemming effect where everyone wants one. A few weeks later a lot of the same knives show up in BST


----------



## Michi

captaincaed said:


> BST is the heart of the forum and there's more interest in protecting assets than experimenting and sharing info.
> @Barclid happy now *****?


Outstanding effort, well done!


----------



## Michi

Knives are for fossils. Real cooks get their stuff pre-cut from the supermarket.


----------



## Michi

And really smart cooks get frozen meals that they can stick into the microwave.


----------



## soigne_west

Michi said:


> And really smart cooks get frozen meals that they can stick into the microwave.




Most pro cooks I know do this


----------



## Nagakin

soigne_west said:


> Most pro cooks I know do this


there has been more than a few unproud nights of frozen waffles over the sink after a shift.


----------



## soigne_west

Nagakin said:


> there has been more than a few unproud nights of frozen waffles over the sink after a shift.



Are you saying there’s times when you don’t eat over the sink or a trash can? Asking for a friend.


----------



## daddy yo yo

I’d love to use a TF as a champagne sabre...


----------



## Keith Sinclair

tchan001 said:


> Singatirin mizu-honyaki are the best priced Japanese honyaki in the world and will become highly sought after collector items in the future if not already so. Good luck with your search.



True with the burnt chestnut handle. Bought a 270 off BST never had been sharpened or used. Got a good deal on it in a members mass knife selloff. I really had no use for a 270 since was retired already sold it to a banquet chef friend of mine even cheaper than what I paid. That is a great hunk of honyaki steel perfect for production kitchen.

More interested in bang for the buck blades because most cooks won't spend over 200.00 for a knife. 

As home cook use 180 & 210 totally different from pro kitchen.

Most have ever paid for a knife is around 400.00. The knives have bought from recomms here have been very good. Have a nice collection of home knives can't unload any to students since covid19 after 7 years think volunteer teaching is over. 

Can't fault anyone spending big bucks for latest & greatest knives. I've spent much more on early American & world large silver coins over last 20 years. American silver dollars 1795-1803 are most expensive.


----------



## Ericfg

Keith Sinclair said:


> I've spent much more on early American & world large silver coins over last 20 years.


Oh. Another silver crown collector? Noice!


----------



## Dhoff

daddy yo yo said:


> I’d love to use a TF as a champagne sabre...



Sorry, the bottle would win :O


----------



## Ruso

zizirex said:


> members here is a die-hard fan of a store that is supporting & supported this forum, even though there is a much better choice in other stores that do not affiliate in this forum.
> some of the stores create a hype that is so crazy, sometimes the hype is just like Schrodinger's cat.
> 
> hope that fuel up the thread.


Need precise examples please.


----------



## daveb

daddy yo yo said:


> I’d love to use a TF as a champagne sabre...



You would do that with a knife that looks like sh!t?


----------



## stringer

Japanese knives deal with chicken and fish bones just fine

Plastic cutting boards are underrated 

If you cry when you chop onions you need to move faster

If you are really that concerned about potatoes sticking to your knife then you should invest in a mandolin or learn to use a food processor slicing attachment.


----------



## Jville

People in this thread are trying to hard to keep it going. We are experiencing writers block. Sometimes you just got to take a walk and give it a break.


----------



## Jville

This thread has become like Rocky V. I believe it has better days ahead like Balboa and Creed.


----------



## ian

In keeping with the OP, Rocky V is the best Rocky.


----------



## Jville

ian said:


> In keeping with the OP, Rocky V is the best Rocky.


"I pitty the fool, who thinks Rocky V is the best," Clubber Lang. Take that fool out into the street and beat some sense into him.


----------



## stringer

Bread knives should be banned.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

stringer said:


> Bread knives should be banned.


Boo this man.


----------



## KingShapton

Jville said:


> This thread has become like Rocky V. I believe it has better days ahead like Balboa and Creed.


Rocky V is great. I love the scene with Mickey!


----------



## stringer

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Boo this man.



It's a restaurant pet peeve thing. I have had so many problems over the years with servers wrecking cutting boards with serrated knives. And customers complaining about pieces of plastic in their bread baskets.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

stringer said:


> It's a restaurant pet peeve thing. I have had so many problems over the years with servers wrecking cutting boards with serrated knives. And customers complaining about pieces of plastic in their bread baskets.


Yeah good point. I'm a bread baker, hence my liking of them.

Oh here is a custom bread knife from Isaiah Schroeder.


----------



## Barclid

captaincaed said:


> BST is the heart of the forum and there's more interest in protecting assets than experimenting and sharing info.
> @Barclid happy now *****?


Am I ever really?


----------



## Barclid

No, he'd do it with a Shun. The most beautiful knife ever.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Never even worried about food sticking to knife, flex, fit & finish, etc. until read about it in forums.

All cared about keeping them sharp. 

The knives people nit pick about here are better than most all that the masses & pro cooks use.


----------



## Nagakin

stringer said:


> It's a restaurant pet peeve thing. I have had so many problems over the years with servers wrecking cutting boards with serrated knives. And customers complaining about pieces of plastic in their bread baskets.


Servers and knives might be it's own thread


----------



## NBrewster

Owning more than three knives as a home cook is a sign of self indulgence and vanity and should be a source of shame.

Named knife makers are just small time brands and like most small time brands have enormous variance in quality from product to product

If you buy a knife over $100 and aren't maxing out whatever retirement accounts are available to you (Americans), you're being financially irresponsible.

Knives are like any other collectable, there's mostly uniform intrinsic value across all knives. We project values based on our interactions with others.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

NBrewster said:


> Owning more than three knives as a home cook is a sign of self indulgence and vanity and should be a source of shame.



lol ok why are you here??


----------



## NBrewster

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> lol ok why are you here??



I never said I wasn't ashamed


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

NBrewster said:


> I never said I wasn't ashamed


You should be you filthy animal.


----------



## IsoJ

NBrewster said:


> Owning more than three knives as a home cook is a sign of self indulgence and vanity and should be a source of shame.


Yep back in OP. Before I was ashamed owning 20 crappy knives and hated using them. Now I am ashamed only for not having enough time to use my all good knives.


----------



## daveb

Knives don't count as a 401K?


----------



## gregfisk

Sharpening knives on stones is stupid and a waste of time. 

A cardboard wheel is the only way to go.

Just my .02


----------



## NBrewster

daveb said:


> Knives don't count as a 401K?



Cash in along with your beanie babies and Tickle Me Elmos


----------



## BillHanna

NBrewster said:


> Cash in along with your beanie babies and Tickle Me Elmos


I’ve got some old comics, somewhere.


----------



## ian

Matus said:


> I should moderate all posts in this thread if they get 3 or more likes, because they are obviously off topic.



Haha, I think this has become the most liked post on KKF! 45 and counting.


----------



## Jville

daveb said:


> Knives don't count as a 401K?


Why not not you can cash them in later and sometimes they even appreciate... As long as they aren't shuns or miyabis.


----------



## iimi

We're all just a bunch of knife weebs/otakus


----------



## Taz575

I just spent my lunch break reading through this thread! Been away from kitchen knife forums for way too long! Back when I was more active with the various forums (until I got banned from some and just stopped posting on others), it was all about gushing over the latest maker or bashing the store/maker you didn't like. 

A good knife is a good knife, regardless of price or maker. Love my Tanaka Sekiso knives that I have and some other less popular brands. I've had some high end knives that were just OK and some cheap ones that worked really well. I had some stuff from high end makers and it was kinda blah to be honest.

I hate a bead blasted kasumi finish (causes a lot of drag, non woven abrasive pads help get rid of it). Looks horrible and hurts the performance of the knife.

Most of the KU finished knives I have tried suck and are wedgey as hell. I ended up regrinding several of them and they performed much better, but when you look at the cost/time involved, its a waste.


----------



## ian

Thick kurouchi is terrible. It irritates the poor sensitive knuckles of my left hand. I need more moisturizer. Please help me be soft and smooth again.


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> Thick kurouchi is terrible. It irritates the poor sensitive knuckles of my left hand. I need more moisturizer. Please help me be soft and smooth again.


Or work grill and saute in a restaurant. Who needs full nerve sensitivity in their hands? ............


----------



## mise_en_place

M1k3 said:


> Or work grill and saute in a restaurant. Who needs full nerve sensitivity in their hands? ............



Asbestos fingers. Hell, BEST is in the name.


----------



## M1k3

mise_en_place said:


> Asbestos fingers. Hell, BEST is in the name.


So is 'O'. As in "Oh ****! That's hot!"


----------



## TSF415

M1k3 said:


> Or work grill and saute in a restaurant. Who needs full nerve sensitivity in their hands? ............



A deep fryer is great if you need to desensitize your forearms.


----------



## M1k3

TSF415 said:


> A deep fryer is great if you need to desensitize your forearms.


To sticky. I prefer handle burns. Sometimes grease splatter. That's always a good one to keep your footwork game up.


----------



## daveb

I use damp towels in the kitchen - helps me work faster...


----------



## stringer

TSF415 said:


> A deep fryer is great if you need to desensitize your forearms.



If you think a deep fryer is tough you should try being the bread cook on a tandoori. Makes my forearms and eyebrows hurt just to think about it.


----------



## Michi

NBrewster said:


> Owning more than three knives as a home cook is a sign of self indulgence and vanity and should be a source of shame.


I don't mind a bit of shame. It's character-building.


----------



## Vionlad

M1k3 said:


> To sticky. I prefer handle burns. Sometimes grease splatter. That's always a good one to keep your footwork game up.


Full circle burns from the hanger hoop is a right of passage


----------



## panda

ian said:


> Thick kurouchi is terrible. It irritates the poor sensitive knuckles of my left hand. I need more moisturizer. Please help me be soft and smooth again.


man up buttercup


----------



## ian

panda said:


> man up buttercup



Moisturizer is manly.


----------



## panda

it puts the lotion on its skin


----------



## M1k3

It does what it's told.


----------



## NO ChoP!

I'm a lefty and can use most knives without issue.


----------



## Carl Kotte

panda said:


> it puts the lotion on its skin


That’s what slimy sea said.


----------



## ModRQC

NBrewster said:


> Owning more than three knives as a home cook is a sign of self indulgence and vanity and should be a source of shame.



I don't own more than three knives... per day of the week.

The alternative to that would be: using a 300$ knife to prep food in a 15$ per plate snack is a sign of yadda yadda yadda.


----------



## mack

All you need is a gyuto, a parer and a bread knife.

Mack.


----------



## ExistentialHero

mack said:


> All you need is a gyuto, a parer and a bread knife.
> 
> Mack.


Three knives? I only have two hands!


----------



## ModRQC

mack said:


> All you need is a gyuto, a parer and a bread knife.
> 
> Mack.



True...

Yaaawwnn... Boring.


----------



## ModRQC

ExistentialHero said:


> Three knives? I only have two hands!



Key is juggling skills...


----------



## KingShapton

mack said:


> All you need is a gyuto, a parer and a bread knife.
> 
> Mack.


All you need is a chinese cleaver, a boning knife and maybe a petty


----------



## ModRQC

Food processors are much more fun to use than knives... Owning one knife and 20 food processors is correct.


----------



## tchan001

ModRQC said:


> Food processors are much more fun to use than knives... Owning one knife and 20 food processors is correct.


Wait until there is a power outage and then tell me which is more useful.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Paring knives are stupid and a vegetable peeler is faster.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

M1k3 said:


> To sticky. I prefer handle burns. Sometimes grease splatter. That's always a good one to keep your footwork game up.



Your digging up bad memories in my subconcious


----------



## ian

applepieforbreakfast said:


> Paring knives are stupid and a vegetable peeler is faster.



Paring knives are good for many things (opening bags, cutting lemons in half when you have a carbon gyuto out, scoring chestnuts, cutting out the white parts of strawberries in a way that will satisfy one’s very particular wife) but peeling things with a knife is stupid.


----------



## Barmoley

applepieforbreakfast said:


> Paring knives are stupid and a vegetable peeler is faster.


But can you open boxes and packages with a vegetable peeler?


----------



## ModRQC

tchan001 said:


> Wait until there is a power outage and then tell me which is more useful.



Using knives in the dark... now that's what I call master skills! 

In these parts a gas stove is uncommon. Candles or not a power outage in my place pretty much means a condemned kitchen. And don't forget I still have that one knife, which should suffice for emergency work.


----------



## ModRQC

Barmoley said:


> But can you open boxes and packages with a vegetable peeler?



Why, yes I can. Keys also work, or a pencil. Punch a hole in the tape between the flaps and pry away. Pencil might not work afterwards, though...


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Define peeling pineapples, watermelon etc. Knife

Only two hands drop the bread knife. 

Karate Kid was better than Rocky. The endless movies after with both suck. Hollywood if movie makes good money keep making till you throw up your popcorn.


----------



## ModRQC

Keith Sinclair said:


> Define peeling pineapples, watermelon etc. Knife
> 
> Only two hands drop the bread knife.
> 
> Karate Kid was better than Rocky. The endless movies after with both suck. Hollywood if movie makes good money keep making till you throw up your popcorn.



I beg to differ... we all know Fast and Furious only got better and better...

(slowly backing away)


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Barmoley said:


> But can you open boxes and packages with a vegetable peeler?



No, but I wouldn't do that with a paring knife anyway. It's kinda gross to me?

Pocket knife or scissors.


----------



## Chunkybananahead

tchan001 said:


> Wait until there is a power outage and then tell me which is more useful.


Using only one source of electricity is uncouth. Owning one knife and 30 generators is correct.


----------



## Barmoley

applepieforbreakfast said:


> No, but I wouldn't do that with a paring knife anyway. It's kinda gross to me?
> 
> Pocket knife or scissors.


Interesting. You are grossed out by using a short blade knife to open packages? Is it because of tape glue left on the blade?


----------



## M1k3

Washing your knife after opening boxes or packages.


----------



## BillHanna

ModRQC said:


> Why, yes I can. Keys also work, or a pencil. Punch a hole in the tape between the flaps and pry away. Pencil might not work afterwards, though...


Sharpen the pencil with the knife.


----------



## ModRQC

Chunkybananahead said:


> Using only one source of electricity is uncouth. Owning one knife and 30 generators is correct.



One per food processor and 10 extra spares... I like your thinking, man!


----------



## Chunkybananahead

ModRQC said:


> I beg to differ... we all know Fast and Furious only got better and better...
> 
> (slowly backing away)


I hear the next one is in space!


----------



## Barmoley

ModRQC said:


> Why, yes I can. Keys also work, or a pencil. Punch a hole in the tape between the flaps and pry away. Pencil might not work afterwards, though...


This is a group of civilized and sophisticated individuals. If you want to act like an animal you can, what's next, using your claws and teeth...


----------



## M1k3

ModRQC said:


> Why, yes I can. Keys also work, or a pencil. Punch a hole in the tape between the flaps and pry away. Pencil might not work afterwards, though...


I thought I was on "Kitchen Knife Forums". Not "Peeler, Keys and Pencil Box Opening Forums".


----------



## ModRQC

Barmoley said:


> This is a group of civilized and sophisticated individuals. If you want to act like an animal you can, what's next, using your claws and teeth...



Nope... considering a 3K$ 300mm honyaki Gyuto... Hey man I just moved, lost my exacto, please don't judge...


----------



## ModRQC

M1k3 said:


> I thought I was on "Kitchen Knife Forums". Not "Peeler, Keys and Pencil Box Opening Forums".





ModRQC said:


> Nope... considering a 3K$ 300mm honyaki Gyuto... Hey man I just moved, lost my exacto, please don't judge...



Exactly!


----------



## M1k3

ModRQC said:


> Nope... considering a 3K$ 300mm honyaki Gyuto... Hey man I just moved, lost my exacto, please don't judge...


That's what paring knives are for


----------



## ModRQC

Chunkybananahead said:


> I hear the next one is in space!



Hey they did that with that old horror series...


----------



## ModRQC

M1k3 said:


> That's what paring knives are for



Hmmm I stand corrected... here I was thinking they were for paring... silly me.


----------



## Jville

Watching Ryky sharpen on a brick that he grabbed from outside of his house, is more entertaining than what this thread has become.


----------



## ModRQC

You guys will make me want to cry... so mean.







This is what I call « joindre l’agréable à l’utile ».


----------



## Bensbites

What’s the point of pairing knives? I never use them as a home cook.


----------



## Chunkybananahead

applepieforbreakfast said:


> No, but I wouldn't do that with a paring knife anyway. It's kinda gross to me?
> 
> Pocket knife or scissors.


I do use my pocketknife to open boxes, cut rope, scrape bugs off my license plate, etc......... then put it back in my pocket until lunch when I need it to portion out some summer sausage and cheese straight on a public picnic table.


----------



## ModRQC

Bensbites said:


> What’s the point of pairing knives? I never use them as a home cook.



Surely coring a strawberry is best done with a Nakiri...


----------



## parbaked

There are only a handful of KKF members whose posts are actually funny...


----------



## ModRQC

parbaked said:


> There’s only a handful of KKF members who’s posts are actually funny...



Appreciation of which will vary from one individual to another. What’s that even supposed to mean except being mean?


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Barmoley said:


> Interesting. You are grossed out by using a short blade knife to open packages? Is it because of tape glue left on the blade?



Nah. Food knives and package knife should not be the same knife. Great excuse to own more knives.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Chunkybananahead said:


> I do use my pocketknife to open boxes, cut rope, scrape bugs off my license plate, etc......... then put it back in my pocket until lunch when I need it to portion out some summer sausage and cheese straight on a public picnic table.



I mean, at that point, just bite chunks straight off of the sausage and cheese.


----------



## LostHighway

You guys need to cut down on your gyuto buying and to start acquiring antique kogatana.


----------



## Chunkybananahead

applepieforbreakfast said:


> I mean, at that point, just bite chunks straight off of the sausage and cheese.


I wouldn’t want to appear uncivilized.


----------



## Rangen

mack said:


> All you need is a gyuto, a parer and a bread knife.
> 
> Mack.



I too use a paring knife to chop chickens and ducks through the bone.


----------



## spaceconvoy

People here use too many acronyms. 

Japanese is especially bad for acronyms as most names begin with just a few letters. They are a barrier to communication and discourage new members from participating - mainly used to signify authority and in-group membership status.


----------



## soigne_west

spaceconvoy said:


> People here use too many acronyms.
> 
> Japanese is especially bad for acronyms as most names begin with just a few letters. They are a barrier to communication and discourage new members from participating - mainly used to signify authority and in-group membership status.



This is BS


----------



## daveb

What is this thing you call pencil?


----------



## Rangen

spaceconvoy said:


> People here use too many acronyms.
> 
> Japanese is especially bad for acronyms as most names begin with just a few letters. They are a barrier to communication and discourage new members from participating - mainly used to signify authority and in-group membership status.



It's pretty simple. Example: TF is Terra Firma, meaning any good knife, since iron is from the earth. BST is Bolivian Sand Tray, a kind of adult sandbox you play in for a while, after you're tired of using your knives.


----------



## soigne_west

I thought it had been established TF was short for Tom Ford


----------



## WildBoar

FS stands for "I'm Flippin' dis Sheet!"


----------



## Rangen

Unpopular opinion #1 : In the entire history of civilization, no one has invented the perfect steak knife
Unpopular opinion #2: The perfect steak knife would have fine serrations, because the slight raggedness they impart to the surface of the meat is perfection


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> People here use too many acronyms.
> 
> Japanese is especially bad for acronyms as most names begin with just a few letters. They are a barrier to communication and discourage new members from participating - mainly used to signify authority and in-group membership status.



Hmm... here are some of the common acronyms and abbreviations that I just thought of.

B1/B2/AS=blue #1, blue #2, blue super steels. (steels sold by Hitachi that come wrapped in blue paper (aogami))
BNIB=brand new in box
BST=the buy/sell/trade forum here at KKF
BTE=behind the edge
CC=Clean Cut
CKC=Carbon Knife Company
CKTG=Chef Knives To Go
CONUS=continental united states
Craig=proprietor of CKC, usually.
dammy=damascus
DT=Devin Thomas (or maybe distal taper?)
F&F=friends and family mode on paypal
forgie=forgecraft knife, or sometimes Catcheside forged geometry.
Fuji=Konosuke Fujiyama.
Gesh=Gesshin, JKI's house brand name
GLWS=good luck with sale
hrc=rockwell hardness scale
JKI=Japanese Knife Imports
Jnat=japanese natural stones
JNS=Japanese Natural Stones
Jon=Jon Broida @ JKI
K&S=Knives and Stones
[email protected]
Kono=Konosuke
KS=Masamoto KS
KU=kurouchi
LNIB= a meaningless term... technically ""like new in box"
Mab=Maboroshi line from TF
Maksim=proprietor of JNS
Mario=Mario Ingoglia
Marko=Marko Tsourkan
Maz=Mazaki
Miz KS=best knife ever, Mizuno knife in the style of KS
Miz=Mizuno
mm=millimeters. 
PP=paypal
OOTB=out of the box
PM=private message
S&G=splash and go stones
SG=shapton glass stones
Shihan=knives made by Shehan Prull
SP=shapton pro stones
SS=semistainless, or sometimes stainless steel
suji=sujihiki
sumi=suminagashi, a particular damascus type
synth=synthetic stone
TF=Teruyasu Fujiwara
Toyamanabe=Toyama or Watanabe
VAT=some weird tax they charge in Europe, if the buyer is in Europe
wa=japanese handle
Wat=Watanabe
Watoyama=Watanabe or Toyama
WH=workhorse
Wh1/Wh2/Wh3=white #1, white #2, white #2 steels. (steels sold by Hitachi that come wrapped in white paper (shirogami)) some people write W1,W2, but those people should correct themselves, since W2 is a different steel.
WTS/WTB/WTT=want to sell/buy/trade
yani=yanagiba, for some reason
yo=western handle

See also this older thread.


----------



## Kippington

ian said:


> See also this older thread.


Someone should really re-format the first post in that thread. It's a hot mess...


----------



## ian

Kippington said:


> Someone should really re-format the first post in that thread. It's a hot mess...



I'll do it. Give me a sec.


----------



## labor of love

You forgot TWSS


----------



## ian

labor of love said:


> You forgot TWSS



What I really forgot was TLDR.


----------



## soigne_west

FTFY


----------



## ian

Kippington said:


> Someone should really re-format the first post in that thread. It's a hot mess...



K, all done.






Kitchen Knife Glossary redux


I'm reformatting here an earlier awesome post from Eamon Burke in this thread, and including some info of my own from another thread.




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## soigne_west

Nice job.


----------



## panda

ian said:


> Paring knives are good for many things (opening bags, cutting lemons in half when you have a carbon gyuto out, scoring chestnuts, cutting out the white parts of strawberries in a way that will satisfy one’s very particular wife) but peeling things with a knife is stupid.


why are people so afraid of cutting citrus with a carbon knife. just wipe it after. it's more annoying to have to switch knives just for a lemon..


----------



## ian

panda said:


> why are people so afraid of cutting citrus with a carbon knife. just wipe it after. it's more annoying to have to switch knives just for a lemon..



Well, I did use a carbon gyuto to cut a lemon today, actually. But I usually have the paring knife out on the counter anyway for tasks like this, and when I go to the fridge to pick up the lemon I put down any gyuto I might be holding, so I might as well pick up the stainless paring knife that I don’t care about when I come back to the counter. One less thing to worry about wiping.


----------



## labor of love

People buy Konosuke Fujiyamas for fancy Kanji and the stamp. Other knives cut just as well if not better for less.


----------



## ian

labor of love said:


> People buy Konosuke Fujiyamas for fancy Kanji and the stamp. Other knives cut just as well if not better for less.



Hater. The depth of the extra kanji helps with food release.


----------



## esoo

labor of love said:


> People buy Konosuke Fujiyamas for fancy Kanji and the stamp. Other knives cut just as well if not better for less.



Can't deny I think Myojin's stamp is cool...


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> People buy Konosuke Fujiyamas for fancy Kanji and the stamp. Other knives cut just as well if not better for less.


Nah, People buy the older ones to experience the Legendary Morihiro and Tanaka. People buy the newer ones because their the next "chapter" of the legend and because the older ones are so rare and pricey on the secondary market. The first one I got didn't even have a stamp and the kanji was faded. I don't even find the kanji and/or stamp as overly amazing, meaning not a reason to buy the knife. They are nice, but so is a bunch of others. The FMs are underrated imho. They are some of the sexiest, pure cutters out there... Sexy and classy all over. I hope they stay somewhat underrated, keep the supply up and the demand at bay.


----------



## labor of love

Jville said:


> Nah, People buy the older ones to experience the Legendary Morihiro and Tanaka. People buy the newer ones because their the next "chapter" of the legend and because the older ones are so rare and pricey on the secondary market. The first one I got didn't even have a stamp and the kanji was faded. I don't even find the kanji and/or stamp as overly amazing, meaning not a reason to buy the knife. They are nice, but so is a bunch of others. The FMs are underrated imho. They are some of the sexiest, pure cutters out there... Sexy and classy all over. I hope they stay somewhat underrated, keep the supply up and the demand at bay.


Another unpopular opinion: Morihiro sharpened knives aren’t anything special on the board at all.


----------



## valgard

Corradobrit1 said:


> Who cares about gaudy colorful handles when a blade of this calbre is attached. No way I'd kick it out of bedView attachment 87352



No, but I would chisel the handle out. Have done it before


----------



## Qapla'

ian said:


> yani=yanagiba, for some reason



I agree with the "for some reason" part. Forumites seem to forget that _yani_ is the Japanese word for "mucus".


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> Another unpopular opinion: Morihiro sharpened knives aren’t anything special on the board at all.


I feel like this is a more reasonable opinion then the previous. And I believe it is heartfelt by you. And this is the type of stuff that started the thread off as interesting, before it became the knife version of the talk show "The View." On that note, Myojin knives are special. Also, I'm not supporting the Morihiro statement. I just haven't had much experience with the old Fuji gyutos to put a passionate argument against it. I've had a couple of Morihiro's work and they've been among my favorite.


----------



## Jville

Around here, we like to ride the hype train, get off at haterville. Then, buy a ticket to New Kid On The Block Show, then repeat.


----------



## labor of love

Jville said:


> I feel like this is a more reasonable opinion then the previous. And I believe it is heartfelt by you. And this is the type of stuff that started the thread off as interesting, before it became the knife version of the talk show "The View." On that note, Myojin knives are special. Also, I'm not supporting the Morihiro statement. I just haven't had much experience with the old Fuji gyutos to put a passionate argument against it. I've had a couple of Morihiro's work and they've been among my favorite.


You might have a temporary misunderstanding of the purpose of this thread...we know of lots and lots of stuff that tanaka is the smith for. The variance with all these thin light gyutos is there but still there’s no reason for the fanfare some brands get over others, besides limited availability and neat stamps.
I don’t expect many here would agree with me but I believe it just the same, hence an unpopular opinion.


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> You might have a temporary misunderstanding of the purpose of this thread...we know of lots and lots of stuff that tanaka is the smith for. The variance with all these thin light gyutos is there but still there’s no reason for the fanfare some brands get over others, besides limited availability and neat stamps.
> I don’t expect many here would agree with me but I believe it just the same, hence an unpopular opinion.


I was joking around with The View comment. I just felt in the earlier part of the thread there was real pent up opinions unleashed. Your comment about Morihiro's work felt like the beginning of the thread, if that makes any sense . Later in the thread seemed different. I was also agreeing with you that the comment about Morihiro's work would be against, perhaps, the norm so unpopular. The stamp and kanji comment. I just disagreed with, wasn't meant to be argumentive. It was just my opinion, so perhaps, my opinion is the unpopular


----------



## bahamaroot

It's perfectly normal to own $10k+ worth of knives.


----------



## Jville

X


----------



## RDalman

Was away from forum for a week in the woods and come back to this. 
Knives are overrated, axes brrRaaapppS much better.


----------



## daveb

bahamaroot said:


> It's perfectly normal to own $10k+ worth of knives.



Heard. I carry mine in a 2K truck.


----------



## valgard

bahamaroot said:


> It's perfectly normal to own $10k+ worth of knives.


So, what's unpopular about this?


----------



## soigne_west

valgard said:


> So, what's unpopular about this?




It's only unpopular for us poors


----------



## GeneH

RDalman said:


> Was away from forum for a week in the woods and come back to this.
> Knives are overrated, axes brrRaaapppS much better.



6.5 mm spines are still pretty badass for breaking down...stuff. No stiction issues.


----------



## tchan001

valgard said:


> So, what's unpopular about this?


Very unpopular when your wife finds out.


----------



## valgard

soigne_west said:


> It's only unpopular for us poors



I'm rich in knives


----------



## jwpark

soigne_west said:


> It's only unpopular for us poors


or if you have $50k+ in knives


----------



## panda

soigne_west said:


> It's only unpopular for us poors


I'm rich in sense of humor


----------



## soigne_west

panda said:


> I'm rich in sense of humor



“Money can’t make you funny” -Me


----------



## parbaked

soigne_west said:


> “Money can’t make you funny” -Me


I laugh at rich people all the time....


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Having millions doesn't dictate taste. Look at ugly mansions of NFL stars.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Keith Sinclair said:


> Having millions doesn't dictate taste. Look at ugly mansions of NFL stars.


All with Kramers in their knife blocks.... or Chelsea Millers


----------



## Rangen

Corradobrit1 said:


> All with Kramers in their knife blocks.... or Chelsea Millers



Being rich means you can be eccentric. If you don't cook anyway, why not just have a set of the original Ginsu knives? In their original "As Seen On TV" packaging?

After years of seeing the ads, I admit I actually bought one of those, out of curiosity. It was hanging in a supermarket, and it was $1.98, so why not? It was the thinnest knife I have ever seen in my life, bar none, including ham slicers and the razoriest razors in existence. I was impressed. Not with the knife, of course, but with the guy on TV who managed to cut the nail, and then the tomato, without ever revealing that his knife was not much thicker than heavy duty aluminum foil. The guy had some skills.


----------



## Gregmega

Fun thread. @Barclid wins for sure. But here’s a zinger for ya- the History of Konos thread on here is the fetishized meandering of questionable heresay. And from the top ropes with the atomic elbow- you don’t need to know who the smith is. Or the sharpener. If it’s good it’s good.


----------



## paranoia_bro

bahamaroot said:


> It's perfectly normal to own $10k+ worth of knives.


Goals


----------



## panda

fujiyama are trash, as are ebony handles. fight me.


----------



## Danzo

Rangen said:


> It's not so easy, but there are ways. Note the garish handles I was obliquely defending earlier.
> 
> View attachment 87261
> View attachment 87261


What is that neat orange handle you got there?


----------



## Gregmega

Kato KU are still only worth 400$ Fight me


----------



## daveb

That much?


----------



## Rangen

Danzo said:


> What is that neat orange handle you got there?



I think it was listed as G2, which I've not heard of, but I assume it is much like G10, pressed fiberglass and epoxy. It certainly feels like that, comfortable and grippy. It's a Watanabe 580g blue steel cleaver, and I love it beyond reason.


----------



## tchan001

Gregmega said:


> Kato KU are still only worth 400$ Fight me


If that's what you want to sell your Kato KUs for, I'm sure you'll be quite popular.


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> fujiyama are trash, as are ebony handles. fight me.


 Why?


----------



## Tim Rowland

ian said:


> My other strong opinions, some popular, some not, some based on lots of evidence, some not:
> 
> Catcheside profiles are whack. (Although I still want to get another one at some point... There’s just something about them...) Yoshikane and Gengetsu profiles are too flat. Heiji grind is good, as long as you use it for the right things. Shun VG10 is just fine for what it is. Stainless cladding sucks. Stainless cladding is ok. Ebony handles suck. So does burl, and any handle with blue or green on it should be immediately burned. (Except Tim Johnson’s PA handle, which was classy.) Burnt chestnut 4ever. Carter Wh#1 steel is underwhelming. Damascus is for dumbass kids. And @Kippington’s parrot(?) feather is the coolest maker’s mark.



I am guessing you meant my handle......I know you secretly loved that green.


----------



## Tim Rowland

Paying over $300 for a knife with no actual knife skills makes as much sense as letting Casey Anthony babysit your kids.


----------



## WildBoar

Tim Rowland said:


> Paying over $300 for a knife with no actual knife skills makes as much sense as letting Casey Anthony babysit your kids.


Yeah, it's like buying a car that can go a lot faster than 75 MPH, yet the owner never drives it on a track.


----------



## ian

Tim Rowland said:


> I am guessing you meant my handle......I know you secretly loved that green.



*Forehead smack* Sorry about that. Sometimes I write too quickly... I dunno what my problem is. I corrected it... apologies.

But yea, the green stripe on that was pretty classy. You know how to treat colors right! Can't wait to see what you do with unicorn puke.


----------



## Tim Rowland

WildBoar said:


> Yeah, it's like buying a car that can go a lot faster than 75 MPH, yet the owner never drives it on a track.



Hey now........I drive a Lesbaru outback XT with 415whp and have the speeding tickets to prove it ....yes I do take it to the track as well.


----------



## Tim Rowland

ian said:


> *Forehead smack* Sorry about that. Sometimes I write too quickly... I dunno what my problem is. I corrected it... apologies.
> 
> But yea, the green stripe on that was pretty classy. You know how to treat colors right! Can't wait to see what you do with unicorn puke.



Well I have to refinish it since it got soaked in my tears after you refused it...will probably go on one of my housewife blades


----------



## panda

my car isn't fast, but for some reason people with boosted cars always try to race me.


----------



## WildBoar

panda said:


> my car isn't fast, but for some reason people with boosted cars always try to race me.


You fit the 'profile' 🏎


----------



## Carl Kotte

Tim Rowland said:


> Well I have to refinish it since it got soaked in my tears after you refused it...will probably go on one of my housewife blades


Are you talking about George Now?


----------



## ian

Most people: “*** are they talking about?”


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> Most people: “*** are they talking about?”


Like my wife when I talk to her about knives and stones


----------



## bahamaroot

Gregmega said:


> Kato KU are still only worth 400$ Fight me


I'll give $500 if you got one!


----------



## ian

M1k3 said:


> Like my wife when I talk to her about knives and stones



You do that? Mind blown.


----------



## inferno

*vg10 is infact one of the better all round stainless steels.*

i know where the door is thank you.


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> You do that? Mind blown.


Not so much 'do', more like 'try'.


----------



## Twigg

inferno said:


> *vg10 is infact one of the better all round stainless steels.*
> 
> i know where the door is thank you.


If you like VG10 so much, you should really try a knife made of Stellite6k. It's a joy!


----------



## inferno

i have a knife made out of talonite. 
its stellite 6bh. aged and i think cold rolled. i made it about 20 years a go. 

truth is that vg10 gets sharp enough, keeps a good enough edge for quite long, is easy enough to resharpen, and its stainless enough. 

its only that people only get the **** vg10. hattori and shiki is very good imo. good balance for a SS


----------



## Twigg

I acquired a piece of Stellite6k 7 or 8 years ago when Kennametal briefly owned their company. Was a b**** to get through customs then, not really sure why. I have been thinking of making an oyster knife of it. I have read good things about talonite, mainly around diving knives though.


----------



## inferno

its a really ****** knife material. it likes 5-600 or so finishes. very tough, can't hold an edge. soft.


----------



## Barmoley

Twigg said:


> If you like VG10 so much, you should really try a knife made of Stellite6k. It's a joy!


Stellite6k and talonite should make pretty crappy kitchen knives. The matrix is soft. The materials are tough and wear resistant, but we want very hard, thin edges that are also somewhat tough and the above two materials just don't excel in that. They are also very corrosion resistant though.


----------



## Qapla'

Deleted.


----------



## milas555

Aoto stones are overrated. Working with them is just cleaning mud or leveling stone!


----------



## Matus

@milas555 does not know much about 'real' Aoto stones


----------



## milas555

So I'll buy a few more - maybe my wife still loves me?


----------



## Bensbites

WildBoar said:


> Yeah, it's like buying a car that can go a lot faster than 75 MPH, yet the owner never drives it on a track.


I live in the greater Boston area. Rt 128 and the mass pike require an average of 85 mph and track like agility.


----------



## rogue108

DanDan said:


> Not sure if this is unpopular, but I liked how this forum looked and felt before the revamp. The like system is nice though, if you want the real unpopular opinions you should look at the least liked posts
> 
> 
> 
> We're just here to steal unicorns and flip them, duh
> 
> 
> 
> Okay I have another one, the terms "workhorse" and "laser" the community uses are understandable to differentiate between styles generally, but stupid. Let me illustrate:
> 
> A knife nerd finally makes their pilgrimage to their favourite maker's workshop in Japan, spending thousands of dollars for the journey. They get there and get a chance to start talking to their personal hero, and start to ask them about the difference in the 2014 vs the 2015 batches, which had a little more of a workhorse feel to them. Here's the punchline: the maker has no ****ing clue what they're talking about.



Correction. The maker won't let in to talk because have no idea who the F your are. It's particularly rude to drop in unannounced. and not be introduced by another someone. They don't care your a fanboy and the small details we fawn about. It's different culture in general.


----------



## Tristan

BST should allow people who have had a genuine bad experience with the seller to say something pointed.

I find the litany of bad excuses why any BST knife is ‘the **** but I just can’t buy it now...’ tiresome

I wish makers and vendors were around more


----------



## daveb

Tristan said:


> BST should ....tiresome.


----------



## Twigg

Barmoley said:


> Stellite6k and talonite should make pretty crappy kitchen knives. The matrix is soft. The materials are tough and wear resistant, but we want very hard, thin edges that are also somewhat tough and the above two materials just don't excel in that. They are also very corrosion resistant though.


My Stellite6k statement was a bit sarcastic, because so many people complain about sharpening VG10. I do, however, think it would be interesting to have an oyster knife made of it because of the corrosion and wear resistance (plus the fact that I already have a piece). Other than that, I agree and don't see a place in the kitchen for it.


----------



## Jville

Tristan said:


> BST should allow people who have had a genuine bad experience with the seller to say something pointed.
> 
> I find the litany of bad excuses why any BST knife is ‘the **** but I just can’t buy it now...’ tiresome
> 
> I wish makers and vendors were around more


Send me your credit card info. I'll buy all the good ones, no excuses.


----------



## tchan001

VG10 knives are mostly wallflowers at BST no matter how well they dress up.


----------



## panda

automatic transmissions in sports cars are for people who can't drive.


----------



## Tim Rowland

back on track.....


panda said:


> automatic transmissions in sports cars are for people who can't drive.


PREACH!!!!!


----------



## HappyamateurDK

Here's mine. 

Japanese knives are often overrated, and has become instruments to stimulate big egos. For the same reasons they often end up af drawer queen's. And are no where near as good a daily beater as a traditional German/western chef knife. 

And one more. 

Ceramic sharpening rods are perfectly good to maintain Japanese knives.


----------



## Tim Rowland




----------



## Dhoff

Tim Rowland said:


> View attachment 88209



you forgot the pitchforks!


----------



## panda

if


HappyamateurDK said:


> Here's mine.
> 
> Japanese knives are often overrated, and has become instruments to stimulate big egos. For the same reasons they often end up af drawer queen's. And are no where near as good a daily beater as a traditional German/western chef knife.
> 
> And one more.
> 
> Ceramic sharpening rods are perfectly good to maintain Japanese knives.


if you're happy with german knives, more power to you.


----------



## WildBoar

Bensbites said:


> I live in the greater Boston area. Rt 128 and the mass pike require an average of 85 mph and track like agility.


Ha -- child's play


----------



## WildBoar

panda said:


> if
> 
> if you're happy with german knives, more power to you.


Are you trying to cause a fuhrer?


----------



## ian

Bensbites said:


> I live in the greater Boston area. Rt 128 and the mass pike require an average of 85 mph and track like agility.



Note to self: don’t use Rt 128 or the mass pike when Ben’s out and about.


----------



## LostHighway

Bensbites said:


> I live in the greater Boston area. Rt 128 and the mass pike require an average of 85 mph and track like agility.



Credit the Modern Lovers for Roadrunner

Nah, Chicago area drivers are both faster and more aggressive than 128 and MassPike drivers. They are, however, also at least a bit more skilled on average.


----------



## Twigg

LostHighway said:


> Credit the Modern Lovers for Roadrunner
> 
> Nah, Chicago area drivers are both faster and more aggressive than 128 and MassPike drivers. They are, however, also at least a bit more skilled on average.


They have to be in order to dodge all the bullets flying up there.


----------



## jacko9

panda said:


> my car isn't fast, but for some reason people with boosted cars always try to race me.



I noticed that cars in Florida don't need to be fast they only need to have neon lights mounted underneath to glow at night!


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> automatic transmissions in sports cars are for people who can't drive.


Men shouldn’t drive cars period. Only trucks and sometimes SUVs. The El Camino is the only possible exception.


----------



## Twigg

SUVs are just stationwagons with lift kits.


----------



## labor of love

Twigg said:


> SUVs are just stationwagons with lift kits.


Station wagons are just neutered SUVs


----------



## daveb

jacko9 said:


> I noticed that cars in Florida don't need to be fast they only need to have neon lights mounted underneath to glow at night!



Tailpipes witb a larger diameter than the engine are quite popular as well.


----------



## WildBoar

labor of love said:


> Men shouldn’t drive cars period. Only trucks and sometimes SUVs. The El Camino is the only possible exception.


Men should not drive trucks unless they actually utilize the capacity of the truck. Otherwise they are really just driving an oversized, bloated, slow, heavy car that handles and brakes like poop.


----------



## labor of love

WildBoar said:


> Men should not drive trucks unless they actually utilize the capacity of the truck. Otherwise they are really just driving an oversized, bloated, slow, heavy car that handles and brakes like poop.


That’s NOT an unpopular opinion. Folks, stay on topic lol


----------



## Rangen

labor of love said:


> Men shouldn’t drive cars period. Only trucks and sometimes SUVs. The El Camino is the only possible exception.



"Men should not drive Camaros, or Challengers or Mustangs." Yep, definitely on topic.


----------



## Bensbites

LostHighway said:


> Credit the Modern Lovers for Roadrunner
> 
> Nah, Chicago area drivers are both faster and more aggressive than 128 and MassPike drivers. They are, however, also at least a bit more skilled on average.


them be fighting words...I am a proud masshole


----------



## Rangen

WildBoar said:


> Men should not drive trucks unless they actually utilize the capacity of the truck. Otherwise they are really just driving an oversized, bloated, slow, heavy car that handles and brakes like poop.



So how do you get back from the place where you are dropping the heavy load, or to the place where you are picking up the heavy load? Tow truck?


----------



## zizirex

German Cars are Overrated, Italian Cars are always broke and English Car is good but doesn't know how to sell their stuff (That's why almost none of them are really English company-owned).


----------



## Bensbites

WildBoar said:


> Ha -- child's play


I didn't say it wasn't fun. 20 yrs ago I had a Honda Civic, I could drive that car... push anyone around the road, and it handled well enough. then I made a life choice and grew up... Prius. I am still drooling over the wrx...


----------



## esoo

Bensbites said:


> I live in the greater Boston area. Rt 128 and the mass pike require an average of 85 mph and track like agility.



It been a while since I've been down to the US, but the places I went (NJ, Seattle, Portland, LA) were easy driving compared to Toronto


----------



## soigne_west

I’m sorry but SF the worst city to drive in. LA sucks, NY sucks but SF is just terrible.


----------



## Barclid

NY isn't that bad really outside of rush hour. Unless you JUST mean Manhattan. But even most parts of Manhattan aren't bad outside of rush hour. Midtown blows at almost any time of day though.


----------



## labor of love

Rangen said:


> "Men should not drive Camaros, or Challengers or Mustangs." Yep, definitely on topic.


Camaros and Challengers are cool. But yes, the modern mustang is a woman’s car.


----------



## jacko9

zizirex said:


> German Cars are Overrated, Italian Cars are always broke and English Car is good but doesn't know how to sell their stuff (That's why almost none of them are really English company-owned).



English cars are good? I've only owned one and I can see why the English Auto Industry pretty much went out of business. My Konosuke Fujiyama B#2 210mm Gyuto has been on my board for years and it's great! Just sticking with the topic theme ;-)


----------



## WildBoar

Rangen said:


> So how do you get back from the place where you are dropping the heavy load, or to the place where you are picking up the heavy load? Tow truck?


Flat bed. Tow trucks are for wussies.


----------



## ExistentialHero

Rangen said:


> So how do you get back from the place where you are dropping the heavy load, or to the place where you are picking up the heavy load? Tow truck?


Sell the truck after you drop the load and hitchhike home.


----------



## Twigg

What is this thread about again?

Nao Yamamoto is better than Kurosaki.


----------



## Nemo

664 posts.

Unpoular opinions seem... popular.


----------



## Twigg

The crowning achievement of this thread is the following opinion. Disclaimer, its not necessarily mine.

The Gobots are better than The Transformers.


----------



## P.Smash

Lol, fun thread  

My Miyabi ain’t that bad a knife.


----------



## M1k3

Fake hay > pine shavings.


----------



## TSF415

soigne_west said:


> I’m sorry but SF the worst city to drive in. LA sucks, NY sucks but SF is just terrible.


It’s worse now then ever with Uber drivers stopping in the middle of the block every other block.


----------



## labor of love

TSF415 said:


> It’s worse now then ever with Uber drivers stopping in the middle of the block every other block.


Isn’t San Fran just a giant urinal now?


----------



## soigne_west

labor of love said:


> Isn’t San Fran just a giant urinal now?



It has been...


----------



## panda

Z


Twigg said:


> The crowning achievement of this thread is the following opinion. Disclaimer, its not necessarily mine.
> 
> The Gobots are better than The Transformers.


deceptacons are way cooler


----------



## TSF415

labor of love said:


> Isn’t San Fran just a giant urinal now?



Nope. The city provides bathrooms and washing facilities for all the homeless encampments. Hotel rooms too. They’ll even bring you your drugs and alcohol. 

We’re a high class cess pool over here.


----------



## parbaked

labor of love said:


> Isn’t San Fran just a giant urinal now?


That stuff all rolls downhill, so if you're on top of a hill it's pretty dry...

I just moved back to SF after a 3 year Oakland experiment. 
SF drivers suck!

Last week I rode my bike home through the Tenderloin for the first time. 
It is pretty shocking for a city to have major streets filled with tents.
Oakland set aside land in industrial zone for settlements that look like refugee camps.
Not sure which is worse.

Oh and people who sharpen knives for fun are weird...


----------



## Corradobrit1

parbaked said:


> 3 year Oakland experiment.


And lived to tell the tale. Kudos.


----------



## soigne_west

parbaked said:


> Last week I rode my bike home through the Tenderloin for the first time.





Corradobrit1 said:


> And lived to tell the tale. Kudos.


----------



## Tim Rowland

Gushers are better than fruit by the foot....................I said what I said.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Parbaked's 'bike'


----------



## soigne_west




----------



## Carl Kotte

Judging by these stats (and assuming that reaction score translates into popularity... in some unclear way), @ian is more popular than @labor of love and @Carl Kotte
In my opinion this is just morally wrong and very unethical.


----------



## soigne_west

Tim Rowland said:


> Gushers are better than fruit by the foot....................I said what I said.



If you disagree with this you have mental health issues


----------



## parbaked

Carl Kotte said:


> @ian is more popular than @labor of love and @Carl Kotte


@ian is a Supporting Member. The majority of his likes were bought....


----------



## ian

Carl Kotte said:


> View attachment 88261
> Judging by these stats (and assuming that reaction score translates into popularity... in some unclear way), @ian is more popular than @labor of love and @Carl Kotte
> In my opinion this is just morally wrong and very unethical.



Now there’s an unpopular opinion.

Realistically, I think the “highest reaction score” metric has little to do with the quality of your posts. I bet you get extra points for being controversial, since then the people on your side. And you also get a ton of likes every time you post something in “What’s cooking...” or every time you show off a new knife in “Show your newest...”. Anyway, some threads are more like-heavy than others. And of course, getting a lot of likes is a negative, in that what it really expresses is that you spend too much time on a stupid knife forum. So Carl, we’re both f**ked.

Another thought: the more long winded and complicated your posts are, the more likes they get, since then people don’t really know what to say in return, or don’t read the entire post, and just opt for a one click response. That seems to fit @Michi and me, at least.


----------



## ian

parbaked said:


> @ian is a Supporting Member. The majority of his likes were bought....



Ssshh! I actually bought them all from panda.


----------



## BillHanna

KKF Payola scandal


----------



## Matus

@parbaked just killed the main business leg of KKF. Guys, save your favorite threads and PMs, we may not be around this time tomorrow


----------



## soigne_west

Anyone who rocks a hotdog bun as a handle gets my vote for coolest dude on KKF... and he’s such a nice guy


----------



## BillHanna

Hot dogs are one of my favorite sandwiches


----------



## ian

soigne_west said:


> Anyone who rocks a hotdog bun as a handle gets my vote for coolest dude on KKF... and he’s such a nice guy



Agreed. Let’s all donate 100 likes to him.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Hmmm, longer posts ey? Ah, screw it, we all know this is not a popularity contest. 
What really matters is trophy points! Take that you higher deities of existence!


----------



## soigne_west

Yo be honest Carl probly likes or sends more googlie eyes then anyone else. @Matus can we make that a ranked thing?


----------



## Carl Kotte

ian said:


> Agreed. Let’s all donate 100 likes to him.


Is 100 likes like an atom of a trophy point?


----------



## Carl Kotte

@ian and @soigne_west stop flattering me - I can’t take it! It’s like fire on my softly moisturized skin. Start roasting me!


----------



## Tim Rowland

Carl Kotte said:


> @ian and @soigne_west stop flattering me - I can’t take it! It’s like fire on my softly moisturized skin. Start roasting me!



Your Avatar looks like a Furry getting a blumpkin.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Tim Rowland said:


> Your Avatar looks like a Furry getting a blumpkin.


I had to Google a lot of things there... but man that was funny!


----------



## wind88

Another one for me: sharing personal opinion and feedback that is less than stellar of makers is often met with hostility. I think it’s important to be able to share personal opinions and views openly and freely in a public forum. Anything inaccurate can be defended openly. I believe this will only add more transparency and benefit the knife community.


----------



## parbaked

Tim Rowland said:


> Your Avatar looks like a Furry getting a blumpkin.


I'd like to see what's cropped out of your avatar...that raccoon looks awfully happy.


----------



## jacko9

Trophy, trophy, what the hell am I going to do with another trophy? I want more fresh tomatoes in my garden!


----------



## Carl Kotte

@Tim Rowland at least my avatar (my spirit animal) is a piece of cultural heritage. And @parbaked it’s a Lion.


----------



## parbaked

Carl Kotte said:


> it’s a Lion.



I was referring to the avatar of @Tim Rowland. 
Yours is clearly taxidermy gone wrong...


----------



## Tim Rowland

Carl Kotte said:


> @Tim Rowland at least my avatar (my spirit animal) is a piece of cultural heritage. And @parbaked it’s a Lion.











Hilariously Bad Lion Taxidermy


<b>Behold, the Derp Of The Jungle!</b> In its own way, it's quite impressive.




www.buzzfeed.com





must have been done by the same guy who made this


----------



## Tim Rowland

parbaked said:


> I'd like to see what's cropped out of your avatar...that raccoon looks awfully happy.


My Raccoon is clearly getting ready to start some mischief.........possibly involving furries and blumpkins


----------



## Carl Kotte

Tim Rowland said:


> Hilariously Bad Lion Taxidermy
> 
> 
> <b>Behold, the Derp Of The Jungle!</b> In its own way, it's quite impressive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.buzzfeed.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> must have been done by the same guy who made this
> View attachment 88268


I’m seriously considering an avatar change now.


----------



## ian

Tim Rowland said:


> My Raccoon is clearly getting ready to start some mischief.........possibly involving furries and blumpkins



Is it just me, or is your raccoon super fat?


----------



## Carl Kotte

Tim Rowland said:


> My Raccoon is clearly getting ready to start some mischief.........possibly involving furries and blumpkins


Ouch, I always thought that raccoon was a bear.


----------



## Corradobrit1

ian said:


> Is it just me, or is your raccoon super fat?


He bigg boned. Supa chonki


----------



## Corradobrit1

parbaked said:


> I was referring to the avatar of @Tim Rowland.
> Yours is clearly taxidermy gone wrong...


Looks like an early super expensive Steiff lion with dentures


----------



## Tim Rowland

He is super chunk.


----------



## ian

That is the creepiest gif I’ve ever seen on here.


----------



## Dhoff

Sounds like we need a goodnatured roast thread where one can willingly submit.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Tim Rowland said:


> View attachment 88271
> 
> 
> He is super chunk.


And THICC


----------



## panda

tenderloin is the worst cut of steak


----------



## panda

BillHanna said:


> Hot dogs are one of my favorite sandwiches


Chicago style


----------



## WildBoar

panda said:


> tenderloin is the worst cut of steak


I did not realize that was an unpopular opinion. I thought the only reason that steak exists is for people who don't want to eat a 12+ oz sirloin, NY strip or ribeye steak.

The only preparation I have ever thought was worthwhile was by @Kostintinos when he was in Columbia, MD this past year -- he served it with a bone marrow sauce. That was freakin' delicious.


----------



## parbaked

panda said:


> tenderloin is the worst cut of steak


That’s why Bernaise was invented...


----------



## ThinMan

If you don’t have a 270 gyuto, you are a loser.


----------



## daveb

I wrapping my mind around a tenderloin preperation in next couple days. Season it, SV it, then blow the cobwebs off the fondue pot for service.

Doing a lot of picnics for potential ex-wives these days.


----------



## ThinMan

labor of love said:


> Another unpopular opinion: Morihiro sharpened knives aren’t anything special on the board at all.



Heretic.

Burn the witch!


----------



## ExistentialHero

BillHanna said:


> Hot dogs are one of my favorite sandwiches


Topologically, a hot dog is a pizza, not a sandwich.


----------



## Corradobrit1

ExistentialHero said:


> Topologically, a hot dog is a pizza, not a sandwich.


Mind blown


----------



## jacko9

A hot dog is what the butcher does with his waste.


----------



## Tim Rowland

I believe you meant open faced sandwich


----------



## BillHanna

ExistentialHero said:


> Topologically, a hot dog is a pizza, not a sandwich.


Well, ****.
*scrambles for an excuse*

a pizza is an open faced sandwich?


----------



## BillHanna

Always read threads before you respond.

And that’s one to grow on.


----------



## WildBoar

ExistentialHero said:


> Topologically, a hot dog is a pizza, not a sandwich.


That's just silly. You obviously are not rotating it 90 degrees before eating. It is a sandwich that is sealed on one side.


----------



## ModRQC

BillHanna said:


> Always read threads before you respond.
> 
> And that’s one to grow on.



That's such an unpopular opinion, man... how did you do that?!


----------



## McMan

labor of love said:


> Isn’t San Fran just a giant urinal now?


Literally. The city mandated super low flow toilets about a decade ago. The result was that there was no longer enough water to adequately move the sludge in the sewer system. Hence, smell.


----------



## ian

ExistentialHero said:


> Topologically, a hot dog is a pizza, not a sandwich.



Pro tip: if your sandwiches are disconnected, use more mayo.

Or do your sandwiches have holes? If so, I must be doing it wrong. Although I guess if you zoom in enough, every food item probably has a billion holes through it. And if you go quantum, is every food item some sort of strange probabilistic data set? Aaaaah, save me.


----------



## ModRQC

Reality is binary.


----------



## ian

BillHanna said:


> Always read threads before you respond.
> 
> And that’s one to grow on.



I don’t get why you’re saying this here. Was there someone in particular you were replying to? It seems just sort of out of the blue and unrelated to urinals.


----------



## BillHanna

ian said:


> I don’t get why you’re saying this here. Was there someone in particular you were replying to? It seems just sort of out of the blue and unrelated to urinals.


Are you taking the piss out of me?


----------



## ian

BillHanna said:


> Are you taking the piss out of me?



Sorry, my bad. I didn’t realize this was an “unpopular opinions” thread. Only had time to read the last few posts.


----------



## Michi

Sharpening stones are for people who can’t afford to replace their knives with new ones when they get dull.


----------



## Matus

Not even Michi can't bring this thread on the track it seems ...


----------



## labor of love

Michi said:


> Sharpening stones are for people who can’t afford to replace their knives with new ones when they get dull.


Hey,
I made a meme for that. Totally true btw


----------



## juice

Carl Kotte said:


> View attachment 88261
> Judging by these stats (and assuming that reaction score translates into popularity... in some unclear way), @ian is more popular than @labor of love and @Carl Kotte
> In my opinion this is just morally wrong and very unethical.


Are we just going to ignore that an Aussie[1] is atop that list? You other losers are just fighting for the highest loser spot.



ThinMan said:


> If you don’t have a 270 gyuto, you are a loser.


It's true, I don't have one of these.



McMan said:


> Literally. The city mandated super low flow toilets about a decade ago. The result was that there was no longer enough water to adequately move the sludge in the sewer system. Hence, smell.





BillHanna said:


> Are you taking the piss out of me?


Yes, but not very effectively if you're in SF.

---

[1] Even if he is from Queensland


----------



## Kippington

jacko9 said:


> A hot dog is what the butcher does with his waste.


Mince is pre-chewed meat.


----------



## jacko9

Pre-chewed meat I thought that's what birds fed their young in the nest.


----------



## ian

Back on topic:

Turning a Shig nakiri into a 180 gyuto is a good idea!


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> Are we just going to ignore that an Aussie[1] is atop that list? You other losers are just fighting for the highest loser spot.
> 
> 
> It's true, I don't have one of these.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but not very effectively if you're in SF.
> 
> ---
> 
> [1] Even if he is from Queensland


Meh, I'm surprised I'm even on there.


----------



## Michi

juice said:


> [1] Even if he is from Queensland


Yoi, watch it mate!


----------



## Corradobrit1

ian said:


> Back on topic:
> 
> Turning a Shig nakiri into a 180 gyuto is a good idea!


Carlos is having palpations and may never recover.....


----------



## ian

soigne_west said:


> Nakiri’s are stupid



@Corradobrit1, @valgard, I just noticed that @ma_sha1 liked the above post, so we shoulda seen it coming. It’s all @soigne_west’s fault.


----------



## soigne_west

Nakiris are cool**


----------



## coffeelover191919

i've drawn blood more times on a sharp knife than a dull knife, yet people say a sharp knife is safer.


----------



## Carl Kotte

@juice No, no one is ignoring that. It’s just that there’s nothing unetchical or wrong about the immoderate popularity of @Michi . Before the pandemic there was even talk about a world wide Michi passaround - the ’More Michi More’ world tour.


----------



## juice

Carl Kotte said:


> Before the pandemic there was even talk about a world wide Michi passaround


Well, as noted, he's from Queensland, so he'd probably enjoy that...


----------



## Barmoley

Likes are useless without unlikes to balance them out.


----------



## BillHanna

Hershey’s chocolate is better than Cadbury


----------



## juice

BillHanna said:


> Hershey’s chocolate is better than Cadbury


Well, Cadbury is most sugar, so... (this is probably unpopular as well as true


----------



## parbaked

BillHanna said:


> Hershey’s chocolate is better than Cadbury


You’re on fire!!!


----------



## captaincaed

RDalman said:


> Was away from forum for a week in the woods and come back to this.
> Knives are overrated, axes brrRaaapppS much better.


I just did the same. What happened?
On the upside, fell back in love with the gransfors bruk. It's a tank.


----------



## Iggy

parbaked said:


> You’re on fire!!!



Both (Hershey’s and Cadbury) are rubbish compared to Swiss, Belgian or French chocolate (or Fazer from skandinavia).

While I'm on it:

Ben & Jerry's is rubbish as well... using inferior and artificial ingredients compared to other icecreams, avaiable here


----------



## ian

Iggy said:


> Ben & Jerry's is rubbish as well... using inferior and artificial ingredients compared to other icecreams, avaiable here



Nooooooooooo! Besmirch not my beloved Cherry Garcia!


----------



## Corradobrit1

Iggy said:


> Both (Hershey’s and Cadbury) are rubbish compared to Swiss, Belgian or French chocolate (or Fazer from skandinavia).


Glad you didn't mention German or Spanish coz they suck


----------



## Corradobrit1

ian said:


> Nooooooooooo! Besmirch not my beloved Cherry Garcia!


Look anyone who puts cookie dough in ice cream is asking for trouble. Btw Trader Giotto makes the best ice cream. Fight me.


----------



## ian

Corradobrit1 said:


> Look anyone who puts cookie dough in ice cream is asking for trouble.



cookie dough is disgusting. idk who these people are that like that crap.


----------



## Hamso k

As someone who makes their living doing soup prep, there is such a thing as the perfect chef knife. It's called a stainless laser.

Bread knives are stupid. Just use a stainless laser.

To everyone dissing colorful handles, how do you think us stainless laser users feel about your hammered Damascus, kurouchi finished, 280mm gyutos with a brand new, forced-with-mustard, blue patina?

Stainless lasers have been proven to decrease the risk of heart disease and I heard Jesus used one to feed the multitude.


----------



## parbaked

Lasers are overrated...


----------



## panda

Corradobrit1 said:


> Look anyone who puts cookie dough in ice cream is asking for trouble. Btw Trader Giotto makes the best ice cream. Fight me.


Häagen-Dazs is best ice cream


----------



## Corradobrit1

panda said:


> Häagen-Dazs is best ice cream


I liked their 'Five' series. Sad i was discontinued.


----------



## parbaked

panda said:


> Häagen-Dazs is best ice cream


Frusen Glädjé


----------



## ian

Hamso k said:


> As someone who makes their living doing soup prep, there is such a thing as the perfect chef knife. It's called a stainless laser.
> 
> Bread knives are stupid. Just use a stainless laser.
> 
> To everyone dissing colorful handles, how do you think us stainless laser users feel about your hammered Damascus, kurouchi finished, 280mm gyutos with a brand new, forced-with-mustard, blue patina?
> 
> Stainless lasers have been proven to decrease the risk of heart disease and I heard Jesus used one to feed the multitude.



Blue on the blade is the work of god. Blue on the handle is the work of satan.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Beige is the color of all colors! It works on blades and on handles and everything edible


----------



## Bensbites

ian said:


> cookie dough is disgusting. idk who these people are that like that crap.


Cookie dough deserves to be own food group.


----------



## BillHanna

Mushrooms are garbage. Keep them away from my food.


----------



## panda

rc is better than coke and pepsi


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> rc is better than coke and pepsi


Jolt or GTFO!


----------



## Jville

BillHanna said:


> Mushrooms are garbage. Keep them away from my food.


This is not unpopular, at least with children under the age 10.


----------



## daveb

Bensbites said:


> Cookie dough deserves to be own food group.



Tru dat - after it's baked. Other uses are for chidrens


----------



## Bensbites

daveb said:


> Tru dat - after it's baked. Other uses are for chidrens


Raw cookie dough deserves its own food group.


----------



## LostHighway

In some situations the most appropriate answer to a question is no answer.


----------



## M1k3

LostHighway said:


> In some situations the most appropriate answer to a question is no answer.


GLWS


----------



## Carl Kotte

LostHighway said:


> In some situations the most appropriate answer to a question is no answer.


In other situations a dancing chicken is the best answer there is!


----------



## McMan

panda said:


> rc is better than coke and pepsi


No doubt


----------



## Barmoley

There was an experiment done in the business school I attended. Over 600 participants, double blind study of 6 cola drinks. RC won by a land slide in taste preference. Only 3 people out of the group could accurately tell which of the drinks were which between Coke and Pepsi.


----------



## labor of love

Barmoley said:


> There was an experiment done in the business school I attended. Over 600 participants, double blind study of 6 cola drinks. RC won by a land slide in taste preference. Only 3 people out of the group could accurately tell which of the drinks were which between Coke and Pepsi.


Can people tell the difference between cola made w real sugar and high fructose corn syrup? Or does everyone just pretend to?


----------



## Barmoley

labor of love said:


> Can people tell the difference between cola made w real sugar and high fructose corn syrup? Or does everyone just pretend to?


No idea. I pretend to be able to tell Pepsi and Coke apart, but I really couldn’t in the afore mentioned study.


----------



## Jville

A shig KU was murdered last night. Hasn't the shig KU hatred gone far enough.


----------



## juice

Ice cream is just scoops of slow-acting diabetes bombs.


----------



## M1k3

Making your knife YOURS.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

labor of love said:


> Can people tell the difference between cola made w real sugar and high fructose corn syrup? Or does everyone just pretend to?



To me, Dublin Dr. Pepper and Mexican Coke are significantly smoother than their regular stateside HCFS counterparts. Not sure if that's because of the cane sugar, reduced carbonation or maybe sugar instead of HFCS changes the carbonation somehow?. Not sure what causes the perceived smoothness, and I haven't done a double blind test.


----------



## parbaked

applepieforbreakfast said:


> I also notice Mexican Coke being smoother too. Not sure what it is, and I haven't done a double blind test.


Mexican coke is made with cane sugar vs corn syrup used in USA coke...or at least it used to be.
I haven't had a soda in a long time...


----------



## bahamaroot

juice said:


> Ice cream is just scoops of slow-acting diabetes bombs.


They're healthier if you put them in a big mug of Coke.


----------



## daveb

Bombs Away!

Can't let that pancras get lazy....


----------



## parbaked

bahamaroot said:


> They're healthier if you put them in a big mug of Coke.


But root beer float > coke float...


----------



## esoo

labor of love said:


> Can people tell the difference between cola made w real sugar and high fructose corn syrup? Or does everyone just pretend to?


 
Yes - I can taste the difference.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

parbaked said:


> Mexican coke is made with cane sugar vs corn syrup used in USA coke...or at least it used to be.
> I haven't had a soda in a long time...



I knew that when I was writing it, but the words didn't come out so good.  Edited for clarity.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Jville said:


> A shig KU was murdered last night. Isn't the shig KU hatred gone far enough.


It was already on death row. A dead Shig walking


----------



## Corradobrit1

juice said:


> Ice cream is just scoops of slow-acting diabetes bombs.


I'll take an extra scoop


----------



## BillHanna

parbaked said:


> But root beer float > coke float...


Sprite.


----------



## valgard

ian said:


> Back on topic:
> 
> Turning a Shig nakiri into a 180 gyuto is a good idea!


Good job bringing the thread back on track!


----------



## Rangen

panda said:


> Häagen-Dazs is best ice cream



Fake umlauts mean real quality.

To keep things on topic, what knife would you use to vertically bisect a hard-frozen pint of Haagen-Dazs (sorry for the lack of the traditional Brooklyn umlaut)? Seriously frozen, I mean. Think chest freezer. I'd go for my heaviest Chinese cleaver at 680g.


----------



## Rangen

labor of love said:


> Can people tell the difference between cola made w real sugar and high fructose corn syrup? Or does everyone just pretend to?



It's really easy. The sugar cola is refreshing. The HFCS cola is gummy, sort of like sharpening less-than-best VG-10. It's as though it forms burrs in your mouth that won't go away.


----------



## valgard

Rangen said:


> Fake umlauts mean real quality.
> 
> To keep things on topic, what knife would you use to vertically bisect a hard-frozen pint of Haagen-Dazs (sorry for the lack of the traditional Brooklyn umlaut)? Seriously frozen, I mean. Think chest freezer. I'd go for my heaviest Chinese cleaver at 680g.



A stainless laser


----------



## Qapla'

Rangen said:


> Fake umlauts mean real quality.
> 
> To keep things on topic, what knife would you use to vertically bisect a hard-frozen pint of Haagen-Dazs (sorry for the lack of the traditional Brooklyn umlaut)? Seriously frozen, I mean. Think chest freezer. I'd go for my heaviest Chinese cleaver at 680g.


Serious question: Is this how reitô-kiri's are used in Japan? I've seen such "frozen-foods knives" on websites, but never actually seen or heard of anyone using one.


----------



## Ruso

panda said:


> Häagen-Dazs is best ice cream


One of the most controversial opinions here - you win the thread and your tastebuds are bust, sorry.



BillHanna said:


> Mushrooms are garbage. Keep them away from my food.


You don’t mix em with the food, you silly


----------



## panda

M1k3 said:


> Jolt or GTFO!


i cant even find that any more


----------



## panda

M1k3 said:


> GLWS


pm sent


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> i cant even find that any more


I never messed with Jolt. I was too scared.


----------



## panda

Jville said:


> I never messed with Jolt. I was too scared.


it's got a really strong flavor, i love it


----------



## daveb

Rangen said:


> Fake umlauts mean real quality.
> 
> To keep things on topic, what knife would you use to vertically bisect a hard-frozen pint of Haagen-Dazs (sorry for the lack of the traditional Brooklyn umlaut)? Seriously frozen, I mean. Think chest freezer. I'd go for my heaviest Chinese cleaver at 680g.



I would bisect it slowly. With a spoon.


----------



## M1k3

Jville said:


> I never messed with Jolt. I was too scared.


----------



## Jville

M1k3 said:


>


That sh** can kill you.


----------



## M1k3

Jville said:


> That sh** can kill you.


----------



## Jville

M1k3 said:


>



That pumped me up! Where can I get a Jolt. Bout to make my dreams come true!!


----------



## M1k3

Jville said:


> That pumped me up! Where can I get a Jolt. Bout to make my dreams come true!!


You're welcome.




__





Jolt Cola


The Original American Energy Drink




www.joltcola.com


----------



## M1k3

M1k3 said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jolt Cola
> 
> 
> The Original American Energy Drink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.joltcola.com


@panda


----------



## Dhoff

BillHanna said:


> Always read threads before you respond.
> 
> And that’s one to grow on.



Only now did I see your quote of the great @ian. Thank you for the laugh.


----------



## ThinMan

parbaked said:


> Frusen Glädjé



I miss that stuff. I was just talking about it the other day ...


----------



## Tim Rowland

Corn dogs are really just meat twinkies


----------



## Jville

Tim Rowland said:


> Corn dogs are really just meat twinkies


Yum


----------



## SHOWERDOOKIE

Tim Rowland said:


> Corn dogs are really just meat twinkies



The fact that a hot dog is ground meat wrapped in intestines means that when we eat a hot dog and put the ground hot dog into our intestines we did not simply eat the hot dog, we have in turn become the hot dog.


----------



## Taz575

I used to drink Jolt a lot, like 2 a day some time! Loved that stuff, but it is hard to find locally.

Keto ice cream (Rebel, Enlightened and Halo Top) is good with no blood sugar spike  But it freezes really hard, so I use a butchers knife or AEB-L boning knife to cut the pint in half, but I just started eating the whole pint anyway, so why cut it! Problem solved!


----------



## tchan001

Rangen said:


> Fake umlauts mean real quality.
> 
> To keep things on topic, what knife would you use to vertically bisect a hard-frozen pint of Haagen-Dazs (sorry for the lack of the traditional Brooklyn umlaut)? Seriously frozen, I mean. Think chest freezer. I'd go for my heaviest Chinese cleaver at 680g.


A honyaki that just came right out of the kiln making it an ice cream quenched knife.


----------



## Tim Rowland




----------



## Taz575

This is why we can't have "knice" things!


----------



## panda

Tim Rowland said:


> Corn dogs are really just meat twinkies


i freaking love corn dogs


----------



## Tim Rowland

panda said:


> i freaking love corn dogs


say it with me........MEAT TWINKIE


----------



## daveb

I love a meat twinkie!

Cornbread that's too sweet, nasty little dog, cover it in cheap yellow mustard........ 5 Star!


----------



## Corradobrit1

panda said:


> i freaking love corn dogs


Will they outlast mankind like the regular Twinkie?


----------



## M1k3

Tim Rowland said:


> View attachment 88461


No no no, you're thinking about it wrong. It's called "cryo treatment", sometimes "ice hardening".


----------



## M1k3

Tim Rowland said:


> say it with me........MEAT TWINKIE


Say it with me..... THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID


----------



## panda

daveb said:


> I love a meat twinkie!
> 
> Cornbread that's too sweet, nasty little dog, cover it in cheap yellow mustard........ 5 Star!


i like plain french's mustard, or gulden's spicy brown, with salt & vinegar chips dipped in mayoketchup


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> i like plain french's mustard, or gulden's spicy brown, with salt & vinegar chips dipped in mayoketchup


My weakness! Gulden's!


----------



## bahamaroot

daveb said:


> I love a meat twinkie!


THAT'S what she said!


----------



## Rangen

If you get your hands on a nice Okudo Suita, the best plan is to modify it.






Now, where did I put my Skilsaw?


----------



## labor of love

Taz575 said:


> I used to drink Jolt a lot, like 2 a day some time! Loved that stuff, but it is hard to find locally.
> 
> Keto ice cream (Rebel, Enlightened and Halo Top) is good with no blood sugar spike  But it freezes really hard, so I use a butchers knife or AEB-L boning knife to cut the pint in half, but I just started eating the whole pint anyway, so why cut it! Problem solved!


Oh wassup Taz! I started keto 3 weeks ago myself.
Together we could express some pretty unpopular opinions lol.


----------



## simar

No point in being upset about what someone does or has done with their knife unless you are making an offer on it.


----------



## tchan001

Didn't see any white knights offering to rescue the damsel in distress. Just people saying what a waste of a beautiful thing.


----------



## valgard

tchan001 said:


> Didn't see any white knights offering to rescue the damsel in distress. Just people saying what a waste of a beautiful thing.


You didn't read obviously, there were people offering to buy it and to sell him knives to **** for 50 bucks


----------



## BillHanna

valgard said:


> You didn't read obviously, there were people offering to sell him knives to **** for 50 bucks


It was a legit offer, as well.


----------



## M1k3

Rangen said:


> If you get your hands on a nice Okudo Suita, the best plan is to modify it.
> 
> View attachment 88498
> 
> 
> Now, where did I put my Skilsaw?


Move it up more. You might be able to get a Petty out of it also. Or a paring. And finger stones.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Rangen said:


> If you get your hands on a nice Okudo Suita, the best plan is to modify it.
> 
> View attachment 88498
> 
> 
> Now, where did I put my Skilsaw?


Some great things happened in the Stone Age. Portioning mammoth was a walk in the park.


----------



## Taz575

I went from 360# to 200# in 54 weeks on Keto  Up to 215-220# now, I am still doing Keto, but not tracking or worrying about carbs as much and having more cheat days/meals. Really enjoying it! Fiance is starting it this week, 2 months to go until our wedding!

Skilsaw? Nah, Dremel!!

It's his knife, he should be able to modify it as he wants. I've improved many knives in my day my regrinding or reprofiling them. Knives that were to me really bad were useable afterwards and actually work quite well. One in particular stands out, a M390 210mm gyuto that I reground/thinned and it performs with or better than some of my other top knives.

I've never had a corn dog?? Something else to try! I just made Keto Flan for the first time (for Flan or keto Flan!) and it was awesome!


----------



## juice

labor of love said:


> Oh wassup Taz! I started keto 3 weeks ago myself.
> Together we could express some pretty unpopular opinions lol.


Low-carb is great, but you eat less (including not eating the entire container of ice-cream![1]) so you cut less, which might run counter to the expressed purposes of this forum (for non-pros).

[1] Included to ensure unpopular opinion


----------



## WildBoar

Lots of knife work needed to dice up the cookie dough for the ice cream...


----------



## parbaked

Stop eating cookies and ice cream and allocate those carbs to alcohol...and stay at home....


----------



## M1k3

parbaked said:


> Stop eating cookies and ice cream and allocate those carbs to alcohol...and stay at home....


Is this the "Unpopular opinions of not the stereotypical BoH worker" thread?


----------



## tchan001

White knights don't come over to offer an uglier peasant girl as a substitute sacrifice.


----------



## labor of love

parbaked said:


> Stop eating cookies and ice cream and allocate those carbs to alcohol...and stay at home....


I created a drink your carbs only diet a few years ago. And managed to lose quite a bit of weight.


----------



## Bensbites

Instant pots suck at cooking protein, but are great for grains. They are passable for some low and slow cuts, but I prefer other methods.
SV is awesome for lean protein.


----------



## Taz575

I just starting drinking recently after starting keto. Went 39 years without drinking at all! Don't like the wheaty taste of beer. The low carb Seltzer's (Truly, Corona, Smirnoff, etc) are ok. Tried white Hennessey we got on a cruise, tasted like wart remover. Nasty! Johnny Walker Black was the first Scotch I tried, not bad plain, better in Coke Zero. Got drunk for the first time in Scotch and Coke Zero, but didn't get puking drunk. I was grilling and my fiance thought I was hilarious trying to grill while drunk never having been drunk before. Tried some Tito's, was good, but Grey Goose is much better! I use Grey Goose with Skinny Mix drink mixes and syrups. Low carb, good taste and it doesn't have that sharp taste; f some other alcohols. RumChatta is good, too and I have incorporated that flavor profile in some desserts I have made that are keto friendly.

So in recap I prefer Truly and Grey Goose to scotch and white Hennessey! Guess I am a cheap date, doesn't take much to get me tipsy!


----------



## Taz575

Love my instant pot for cheesecakes and pork shoulder! No grains for me, makes veggies mushy. Good for small batchrs
of chili, but why make a small batch of chili!


----------



## M1k3

Black Knights are more entertaining!!


----------



## ian

Taz575 said:


> I just starting drinking recently after starting keto. Went 39 years without drinking at all! Don't like the wheaty taste of beer. The low carb Seltzer's (Truly, Corona, Smirnoff, etc) are ok. Tried white Hennessey we got on a cruise, tasted like wart remover. Nasty! Johnny Walker Black was the first Scotch I tried, not bad plain, better in Coke Zero. Got drunk for the first time in Scotch and Coke Zero, but didn't get puking drunk. I was grilling and my fiance thought I was hilarious trying to grill while drunk never having been drunk before. Tried some Tito's, was good, but Grey Goose is much better! I use Grey Goose with Skinny Mix drink mixes and syrups. Low carb, good taste and it doesn't have that sharp taste; f some other alcohols. RumChatta is good, too and I have incorporated that flavor profile in some desserts I have made that are keto friendly.
> 
> So in recap I prefer Truly and Grey Goose to scotch and white Hennessey! Guess I am a cheap date, doesn't take much to get me tipsy!



It is pleasing to get to know you as you start your alcohol journey. You have entered a deep rabbit hole. You will now start to buy lots of different kinds of alcohols. You will comment on forums about said alcohols. Soon you will turn to the forums for all your online socializing. Then you will start listing old alcohols for sale, and will realize that you can try more kinds of alcohol if you sell your bottles after sampling them for a couple weeks. You will also start collecting fancy bottles of alcohol, and taking with great discernment about the labels on the alcohol, and whether they were drawn by a child. To go with the alcohol, you will buy great blocks of cheese imported from far across the world, even though there is also cheese manufactured in your own country. You will admire the streaks and lines in the cheese, none of which are toxic. You will think about buying a block of heirloom cheese from a well established forum member for over $1000, although luckily you will come to your senses soon after. Finally, after all that, you will decide that you are really better off making your own alcohol rather than buying it. So you will open Amazon and buy lots of distilling equipment without looking at the prices. Then you will start to cry when you realize that even the mask that you bought to isolate you from the fumes costs over $1000.

Rabbit hole
Jou r ney
Rare bit hell
J
O
U
R
N
E
Y
Ra
Bitter
Hill
Jurn E
Rabbit


----------



## M1k3

Tl;dr


----------



## parbaked

You forgot got to mention the heirloom crackers to go with cheese...


----------



## ExistentialHero

Bensbites said:


> Instant pots suck at cooking protein, but are great for grains. They are passable for some low and slow cuts, but I prefer other methods.
> SV is awesome for lean protein.


Also awesome for dry beans, making stock, and when I realize I need dinner in an hour and the only available meat is a beef tongue.


----------



## labor of love

ian said:


> It is pleasing to get to know you as you start your alcohol journey. You have entered a deep rabbit hole. You will now start to buy lots of different kinds of alcohols. You will comment on forums about said alcohols. Soon you will turn to the forums for all your online socializing. Then you will start listing old alcohols for sale, and will realize that you can try more kinds of alcohol if you sell your bottles after sampling them for a couple weeks. You will also start collecting fancy bottles of alcohol, and taking with great discernment about the labels on the alcohol, and whether they were drawn by a child. To go with the alcohol, you will buy great blocks of cheese imported from far across the world, even though there is also cheese manufactured in your own country. You will admire the streaks and lines in the cheese, none of which are toxic. You will think about buying a block of heirloom cheese from a well established forum member for over $1000, although luckily you will come to your senses soon after. Finally, after all that, you will decide that you are really better off making your own alcohol rather than buying it. So you will open Amazon and buy lots of distilling equipment without looking at the prices. Then you will start to cry when you realize that even the mask that you bought to isolate you from the fumes costs over $1000.
> 
> Rabbit hole
> Jou r ney
> Rare bit hell
> J
> O
> U
> R
> N
> E
> Y
> Ra
> Bitter
> Hill
> Jurn E
> Rabbit


----------



## Bensbites

ExistentialHero said:


> Also awesome for dry beans, making stock, and when I realize I need dinner in an hour and the only available meat is a beef tongue.


How does the instant pot call for pizza and toss the toung on the trash.


----------



## parbaked

That pooch ate the cheese AND drank the booze


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

ian said:


> It is pleasing to get to know you as you start your alcohol journey. You have entered a deep rabbit hole. You will now start to buy lots of different kinds of alcohols. You will comment on forums about said alcohols. Soon you will turn to the forums for all your online socializing. Then you will start listing old alcohols for sale, and will realize that you can try more kinds of alcohol if you sell your bottles after sampling them for a couple weeks. You will also start collecting fancy bottles of alcohol, and taking with great discernment about the labels on the alcohol, and whether they were drawn by a child. To go with the alcohol, you will buy great blocks of cheese imported from far across the world, even though there is also cheese manufactured in your own country. You will admire the streaks and lines in the cheese, none of which are toxic. You will think about buying a block of heirloom cheese from a well established forum member for over $1000, although luckily you will come to your senses soon after. Finally, after all that, you will decide that you are really better off making your own alcohol rather than buying it. So you will open Amazon and buy lots of distilling equipment without looking at the prices. Then you will start to cry when you realize that even the mask that you bought to isolate you from the fumes costs over $1000.
> 
> Rabbit hole
> Jou r ney
> Rare bit hell
> J
> O
> U
> R
> N
> E
> Y
> Ra
> Bitter
> Hill
> Jurn E
> Rabbit



This started off sounding like a bourbon tater, and then it just went off the deep end.


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> View attachment 88554


Teru, the TF shop dog RIP.


----------



## daveb

Scotch was my libation of choice in my younger days. When it started to taste good, I knew I'd had enough. There were occasions when it got to be delicious.


----------



## ian

M1k3 said:


> Tl;dr



Cliff notes: alcohol is knife, cheese is stone, alcohol is knife, cheese is stone.


----------



## M1k3

Not cheese is steel?


----------



## juice

Some steel is cheese, that's close...


----------



## M1k3

Steel is like cheese (troubleshooting deburring)


This reflects my current understanding, not to be interpreted as gospel. When I envision sharpening, I want that hard, clean apex with no trace of a burr. My sharpening improved by miles when I focused on burr removal, and found it different for different steels. I like to have mental models...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## tchan001

Not all stones are created equal. Toxic lines are always a worry.


----------



## parbaked

ian said:


> Cliff notes: alcohol is knife, cheese is stone, alcohol is knife, cheese is stone.


Who cut the cheese??


----------



## Corradobrit1

Show me the cheddar


----------



## Dhoff

Corradobrit1 said:


> Show me the cheddar



You. Can't HANDLE the cheddar!

On a side note an opinion that might be unpopular to the very skilled chefs here.

I enjoy eating McDonalds though the food is trash. Fat speaks to the brain.


----------



## daddy yo yo

A review system for BST-transactions would be a great indicator for the integrity of sellers!


----------



## Michi

The tip on a gyuto is just too bloody dangerous. The smart thing to do with a gyuto is to put it to a grinder, get rid of the tip, and re-shape it into a nakiri. Much safer that way…


----------



## daveb

But what about the heel? That's where I get cut. Me thinks an ideal knife would be ground off on both ends, kind of a parallelogram of steel. Maybe a kickstarter?


----------



## juice

The safest knife is a sphere


----------



## esoo

Nakiri are just cut down 270 that had tip issues.


----------



## msk

esoo said:


> Nakiri are just cut down 270 that had tip issues.


Maybe that's why I enjoy using my 270 and nakiri the most...


----------



## esoo

Petties are what was ground out after the honyaki cracked along the hamon line.


----------



## ian

esoo said:


> Petties are what was ground out after the honyaki cracked along the hamon line.



I always thought it was all the abuse they take, but your explanation explains even better why they don’t seem to hold an edge very long!


----------



## ExistentialHero

juice said:


> The safest knife is a sphere



"Assume a frictionless spherical cow sword..."


----------



## Twigg

ExistentialHero said:


> "Assume a frictionless spherical cow sword..."



Like this?


----------



## panda

dropping food into water in a bag is stupid.


----------



## Ruso

Michi said:


> The tip on a gyuto is just too bloody dangerous. The smart thing to do with a gyuto is to put it to a grinder, get rid of the tip, and re-shape it into a nakiri. Much safer that way…


And double down on that if it’s a Shig. Those bloody Shig tips are responsible for more ER visits than crack cocaine.


----------



## BillHanna

Kiridashi are dumb. The prices are stupid.


----------



## Jville

daddy yo yo said:


> A review system for BST-transactions would be a great indicator for the integrity of sellers!


Now we are getting somewhere, like this alot!!


----------



## valgard

Jville said:


> Now we are getting somewhere, like this alot!!


You're not supposed to like it tho


----------



## valgard

I like it too btw so we're definitely OT


----------



## M1k3

Staying on topic.


----------



## panda

overcooked egg yolk is worse than overcooked steak


----------



## valgard

panda said:


> overcooked egg yolk is worse than overcooked steak


Both are really bad tho


----------



## tgfencer

panda said:


> overcooked egg yolk is worse than overcooked steak



At least overcooked egg yolk can be re-purposed to make any number of other things that hide it's failure. Overcooked steak is just a waste.


----------



## M1k3

tgfencer said:


> At least overcooked egg yolk can be re-purposed to make any number of other things that hide it's failure. Overcooked steak is just a waste.


Not if you call it jerky.


----------



## tgfencer

M1k3 said:


> Not if you call it jerky.



Blasphemy. If folks are cooking jerky, then they've got a fundamental misunderstanding of meat curing.


----------



## Carl Kotte

If there’s going to be a record over bst-sellers there should be one over buyers too.


----------



## Matus

I highly doubt there is going to be either of the two.


----------



## daddy yo yo

Matus said:


> I highly doubt there is going to be either of the two.


Why not? When a seller tells you lies and deliberately hides the bad condition of a knife, that should have consequences...


----------



## Carl Kotte

Matus said:


> I highly doubt there is going to be either of the two.


Me too, and I’m fine with that. But we’re merely assembling unpopular opinions, right?!


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

New members should be limited to starting 1 new thread a month for their first year.


----------



## M1k3

daddy yo yo said:


> A review system for BST-transactions would be a great indicator for the integrity of sellers!





Jville said:


> Now we are getting somewhere, like this alot!!





Carl Kotte said:


> If there’s going to be a record over bst-sellers there should be one over buyers too.





daddy yo yo said:


> Why not? When a seller tells you lies and deliberately hides the bad condition of a knife, that should have consequences...


There's always the option of a third-party buyer/seller site like Heatware.


----------



## M1k3

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> New members should be limited to starting 1 new thread a month for their first year.


Unless they buy 1 knife and/or stone a month.


----------



## Jville

Carl Kotte said:


> If there’s going to be a record over bst-sellers there should be one over buyers too.



I think you could make it so sellers can respond. That would be the only fair way and also a way to balance it so new buyers can decide for themselves. This could also help with flipping without saying things directly on people's thread. What is there really to be scared about



daddy yo yo said:


> Why not? When a seller tells you lies and deliberately hides the bad condition of a knife, that should have consequences...


Yeah I didn't agree with what happened to you. Perhaps, it was a genuine oversight, I can't see his heart. But I think at times like that you offer a refund a deal with the maker yourself or resell it showing those things.


----------



## Kippington

tgfencer said:


> At least overcooked egg yolk can be re-purposed to make any number of other things that hide it's failure. Overcooked steak is just a waste.


Well done steaks can be pretty good sometimes. I also eat blue, and everything between.
Overcooked yolks are like dry powder. Terrible.


----------



## tgfencer

Kippington said:


> Well done steaks can be pretty good sometimes. I also eat blue, and everything between.
> Overcooked yolks are like dry powder. Terrible.



True. I've used cooked egg yolks to thicken or flavor sauces or dressings pretty effectively. Would never eat them plain though, not without some sort of moisture source to accompany anyway.

But also, folks who overcook eggs should be ashamed. It's really only a mistake you should make once or twice in your life.


----------



## Kippington

Jville said:


> A shig KU was murdered last night. Hasn't the shig KU hatred gone far enough.


*Black Knives Matter*


----------



## Barclid

ian said:


> It is pleasing to get to know you as you start your alcohol journey. You have entered a deep rabbit hole. You will now start to buy lots of different kinds of alcohols. You will comment on forums about said alcohols. Soon you will turn to the forums for all your online socializing. Then you will start listing old alcohols for sale, and will realize that you can try more kinds of alcohol if you sell your bottles after sampling them for a couple weeks. You will also start collecting fancy bottles of alcohol, and taking with great discernment about the labels on the alcohol, and whether they were drawn by a child. To go with the alcohol, you will buy great blocks of cheese imported from far across the world, even though there is also cheese manufactured in your own country. You will admire the streaks and lines in the cheese, none of which are toxic. You will think about buying a block of heirloom cheese from a well established forum member for over $1000, although luckily you will come to your senses soon after. Finally, after all that, you will decide that you are really better off making your own alcohol rather than buying it. So you will open Amazon and buy lots of distilling equipment without looking at the prices. Then you will start to cry when you realize that even the mask that you bought to isolate you from the fumes costs over $1000.
> 
> Rabbit hole
> Jou r ney
> Rare bit hell
> J
> O
> U
> R
> N
> E
> Y
> Ra
> Bitter
> Hill
> Jurn E
> Rabbit


And you'll staunchly defend that one distiller who's constantly releasing bottles with weird formaldehyde notes and just general skunkiness because the alcohol percentage is so high and people just don't get the art of making liquor like that, but you do.


....You.... Do.


----------



## Matus

Carl Kotte said:


> Me too, and I’m fine with that. But we’re merely assembling unpopular opinions, right?!


I was doing exactly the same thing


----------



## Matus

daddy yo yo said:


> Why not? When a seller tells you lies and deliberately hides the bad condition of a knife, that should have consequences...


Would love to have that feature, but how are we going to asses word against word? We can't establish any higher authority that would be the judge of things. When things go south it ends up as a blame game most of the time. We would be fighting hurt backsides, trolls and unmatched expectations most of the time.


----------



## Lars

Digital audio is flawless. Your turntable is not.


----------



## panda

tgfencer said:


> At least overcooked egg yolk can be re-purposed to make any number of other things that hide it's failure. Overcooked steak is just a waste.


chop fine and turn into a sandwich


----------



## panda

Lars said:


> Digital audio is flawless. Your turntable is not.


i think my turntable sounds immensely better than my digital system but its a major pain in the d*ck to use it, and i am sick of brushing records.


----------



## Lars

panda said:


> i think my turntable sounds immensely better than my digital system but its a major pain in the d*ck to use it, and i am sick of brushing records.


Just proves that your digital system sucks too.


----------



## Qapla'

Michi said:


> The tip on a gyuto is just too bloody dangerous. The smart thing to do with a gyuto is to put it to a grinder, get rid of the tip, and re-shape it into a nakiri. Much safer that way…


The UK already beat you to it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...proof-kitchen-knife-launced-bid-combat-knife/


----------



## LostHighway

panda said:


> i think my turntable sounds immensely better than my digital system but its a major pain in the d*ck to use it, and i am sick of brushing records.



My analogue front end only sounds slightly better* than my digital gear but I've started to find the roughly 20 minute limit of LP sides to be too brief. 

*a better cartridge and a painstaking re-set up of my table and arm would probably increase the gulf but due to J-knives and Jnats I can no longer afford $2k cartridges.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Back on topic with an actual unpopular opinion:

Hearing the perfection of your audio system (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with enjoying music. Similar to knives, there's no real reason to spend more than about $500. Past a certain point, we're dealing with a mental health issue rather than a technological one, and forum nerds of all stripes (myself included) would be better off spending their money on therapy than new shiny objects.


----------



## daveb

Depends on your definition of "therapy".


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Therapy is a new tracking number.

Significantly reduces the number of uncomfortable questions that I'm just not ready to answer.


----------



## Taz575

My mom knocked a 240mm K tip gyuto off of a cabinet and broke the tip off, so I made it into a 210mm Nakiri! Making lemonade out of lemons!


----------



## bahamaroot

M1k3 said:


> Staying on topic.


The most unpopular opinion so far...


----------



## juice

panda said:


> dropping food into water in a bag is stupid.


Unless repeatability and perfection matters, I agree entirely!



AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> New members should be limited to starting 1 new thread a month for their first year.


Ooops, I started two inside 28 days - one was the obligatory one, though, does that count?



spaceconvoy said:


> Hearing the perfection of your audio system (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with enjoying music. Similar to knives, there's no real reason to spend more than about $500.


I'm on an audiophile forum (which, weirdly, has got me some good gear at quite reasonable prices) but I did have a bit of a laugh last night when there was a 1m RCA interconnect (which you and I would call a "lead" or "cable") for $2500 used...


----------



## panda

used pro audio mogami cables bang/buck champion


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> Unless repeatability and perfection matters, I agree entirely!
> 
> 
> Ooops, I started two inside 28 days - one was the obligatory one, though, does that count?
> 
> 
> I'm on an audiophile forum (which, weirdly, has got me some good gear at quite reasonable prices) but I did have a bit of a laugh last night when there was a 1m RCA interconnect (which you and I would call a "lead" or "cable") for $2500 used...


You've also added something other than more questions on top of more questions about questions.


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> You've also added something other than more questions on top of more questions about questions.


I do need a new knife, though. A short one. Which one should I get?


----------



## M1k3

Honyaki


----------



## Rangen

juice said:


> I'm on an audiophile forum (which, weirdly, has got me some good gear at quite reasonable prices) but I did have a bit of a laugh last night when there was a 1m RCA interconnect (which you and I would call a "lead" or "cable") for $2500 used...



This _might_ not be the forum from which to throw that particular stone. Also our stones are too valuable to throw.


----------



## Barmoley

juice said:


> I do need a new knife, though. A short one. Which one should I get?


Questioner is your friend. Fill it out, someone will help.


----------



## juice

Rangen said:


> This _might_ not be the forum from which to throw that particular stone. Also our stones are too valuable to throw.


That's true, but I was careful to throw it in this particular thread


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

juice said:


> Ooops, I started two inside 28 days - one was the obligatory one, though, does that count?


You're pushing it newbie


----------



## esoo

juice said:


> I do need a new knife, though. A short one. Which one should I get?



Buy an Ashi Hamono honyaki, re-quench it to break it at the hamon, get a two year old to grind it into a paring knife. Sell for profit.


----------



## pleue

240 gyutos are generally either too short or too long for the task at hand and having a bunch of them instead of a mix of lengths is silly.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Real talk time.

Ranch dressing is good on pizza.*
Pineapple is good on pizza too.*
Mayo is good on fried rice, (along with hot sauce or gochugaru).*
Garlic salt is good on way more things than it has any right to be, and I can't figure out why.

Sometimes, people get way too wrapped up in what's "acceptable" with food. It's almost like they forget that it all ends up in the toilet anyway.

*YMMV


----------



## juice

applepieforbreakfast said:


> Sometimes, people get way too wrapped up in what's "acceptable" with food.


Username checks out.


----------



## panda

juice said:


> Username checks out.


apple pie in Kentucky is bourbon


----------



## ian

juice said:


> Username checks out.



Except apple pie for breakfast is like an actual thing over here!


----------



## ian

****.

yet again, panda has the better response. f***er.


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> ****.
> 
> yet again, panda has the better response. f***er.


That's what sea said.


----------



## Twigg

panda said:


> apple pie in Kentucky is bourbon


How about apple pie in bourbon? Lots of bourbon. Maybe a small scoop of ice cream too, and a more bourbon.


----------



## BillHanna

Ranch is for children


----------



## ian

Twigg said:


> How about apple pie in bourbon? Lots of bourbon. Maybe a small scoop of ice cream too, and a more bourbon.



Will apple pie float in bourbon? It’s time for *science*!


----------



## Twigg

ian said:


> Will apple pie float in bourbon? It’s time for *science*!


Would love to find out, but I'm out of bourbon, ice cream and apple pie. I'm slumming it tonight with Miller Lite and trying out the @ExistentialHero chicken stock technique in the pressure cooker.


----------



## panda

ian said:


> ****.
> 
> yet again, panda has the better response. f***er.


get used to it


----------



## panda

BillHanna said:


> Ranch is for children


don't care, I still love ranch haha


----------



## ExistentialHero

Twigg said:


> Would love to find out, but I'm out of bourbon, ice cream and apple pie. I'm slumming it tonight with Miller Lite and trying out the @ExistentialHero chicken stock technique in the pressure cooker.



Ah, ****, did I not mention that you should be medium drunk on bourbon? That's essential to the technique!


----------



## Chunkybananahead

Buttermilk poured over orange sherbet is delicious.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Chunkybananahead said:


> Buttermilk poured over orange sherbet is delicious.


Its the kind of posts like these that make me want to limit posts to none by new members the first month or two.


----------



## panda

Chunkybananahead said:


> Buttermilk poured over orange sherbet is delicious.


does it taste like an orange creamsicle?


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Chunkybananahead said:


> Buttermilk poured over orange sherbet is delicious.



I'm equal parts disgusted and curious.
Do you have a recommended brand of orange sherbet?


----------



## daveb

panda said:


> don't care, I still love ranch haha



But surely not on corndogs....


----------



## Jville

Matus said:


> Would love to have that feature, but how are we going to asses word against word? We can't establish any higher authority that would be the judge of things. When things go south it ends up as a blame game most of the time. We would be fighting hurt backsides, trolls and unmatched expectations most of the time.


Perhaps, make a section for threads about people's sales. Then people can discuss things and there are records that refer to people's sales. If you search somebody's name in that forum and see that multiple people have had issues or there has been a major problem with someone, then, somebody can use that as a reference for their decision. The seller can also tell their side.


panda said:


> chop fine and turn into a sandwich


Add mayo.


----------



## labor of love

BillHanna said:


> Ranch is for children


Just call it buttermilk dressing. Put some ramps in it. Now it’s for adults.


----------



## labor of love

It’s a little early to call it, but I’m thinking this gets the thread of the year award.


----------



## Jville

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Its the kind of posts like these that make me want to limit posts to none by new members the first month or two.


Idk but this might be gold here. Might also be disgusting, but this might be a culinary surprise that he just shared... Does everyone else here put ice cream on their cereal sometimes, love that!


----------



## Twigg

ExistentialHero said:


> Ah, ****, did I not mention that you should be medium drunk on bourbon? That's essential to the technique!


Stock turned out great!


----------



## ian

Yea, buttermilk & sherbet is not much different than orange froyo. Sounds just fine. -1, since this is an unpopular opinion thread.


----------



## Twigg

Twigg said:


> Stock turned out great!


Some fresh stock even made its way into the mango chicken dish that i happened to be cooking.


----------



## Illyria

Iron cladding sucks.


----------



## soigne_west

Stainless cladding sucks


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Cladding sucks.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Sucks.


----------



## LostHighway

Bourbon is too constricted by the narrow definition. Scotch is more interesting than Bourbon.


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> Yea, buttermilk & sherbet is not much different than orange froyo. Sounds just fine. -1, since this is an unpopular opinion thread.


----------



## daveb

labor of love said:


> It’s a little early to call it, but I’m thinking this gets the thread of the year award.



With an unprecedented growth rate "Unpopular Opinions" is on track to become the most popular thread ever


----------



## soigne_west

unprecedented is the word of the year


----------



## labor of love

daveb said:


> With an unprecedented growth rate "Unpopular Opinions" is on track to become the most popular thread ever


Show your newest unpopular opinion.


----------



## panda

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 88656


this is so racist, how insensitive!! oh the nerve!!


----------



## Twigg

panda said:


> this is so racist, how insensitive!! oh the nerve!!


Why do you think Jackie Chan is a racist???


----------



## parbaked

Twigg said:


> Why do you think Jackie Chan is a racist???


He beats up white people...


----------



## Twigg

It makes sense now!


----------



## panda

Twigg said:


> Why do you think Jackie Chan is a racist???


it was a mockery, inside joke.


----------



## Twigg

panda said:


> it was a mockery, inside joke.


Lol, I was being sarcastic. Just joking around.


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> this is so racist, how insensitive!! oh the nerve!!


Totally making fun of Asians. Plus that Asian man is depicted as white, so it's also white privledge.


----------



## Dhoff

Many makers should raise their prices since the knives are gone within 5 minutes. At least raise them until it takes an hour!


----------



## M1k3

Dhoff said:


> Many makers should raise their prices since the knives are gone within 5 minutes. At least raise them until it takes an hour!


PM sent


----------



## labor of love

Dhoff said:


> Many makers should raise their prices since the knives are gone within 5 minutes. At least raise them until it takes an hour!


Western Makers should stop doing custom work and just crank out massive batches.


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> Western Makers should stop doing custom work and just crank out massive batches.


After I get mine


----------



## Qapla'

Japanese knife vendors make themselves look silly when they insist that garasuki's and yodeba's are "western" knives.


----------



## Marek07

panda said:


> rc is better than coke and pepsi


Actually... Chinotto rules the roost!


----------



## daddy yo yo

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> New members should be limited to starting 1 new thread a month for their first year.


Referring to josemartinlopez?


----------



## M1k3

daddy yo yo said:


> Referring to josemartinlopez?


This is the unpopular opinions thread! That would be no!


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

daddy yo yo said:


> Referring to josemartinlopez?


Thought that was obvious?


----------



## daddy yo yo

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Thought that was obvious?


Yep, it was...


----------



## pleue

BST should be auction based.

I don’t actually believe this.


----------



## BillHanna

labor of love said:


> It’s a little early to call it, but I’m thinking this gets the thread of the year award.


Raquin Knives is pretty good from post #1


----------



## Barmoley

Popular western makers should use a lottery system similar to bloodroot. This will fix the problem we have now of people with the most time getting the most popular knives and avoid the problem of people with the most money getting all the popular knives that raising prices will create.

Alternatively, flipping should be encouraged, this way most popular knives can flow from people with the most time to people with the most money allowing equal distribution in the time vs money strata.


----------



## Tim Rowland

Mayonnaise is quite possibly the worse condiment ever created.


----------



## BillHanna

Barmoley said:


> Popular western makers should use a lottery system similar to bloodroot. This will fix the problem we have now of people with the most time getting the most popular knives and avoid the problem of people with the most money getting all the popular knives that raising prices will create.
> 
> Alternatively, flipping should be encouraged, this way most popular knives can flow from people with the most time to people with the most money allowing equal distribution in the time vs money strata.


So I can like it for a second time.


*Like*


----------



## valgard

Tim Rowland said:


> Mayonnaise is quite possibly the worse condiment ever created.


Well done, you and Ian have really soaked in the spirit of this thread


----------



## valgard

Holy smokes, I went away for a few days, but this thread caught a new wind, some real funny "unpopular" opinions. By the number of likes and the fun I had reading it...


----------



## valgard

Buying your first car is not fun at all


----------



## ian

Barmoley said:


> Popular western makers should use a lottery system similar to bloodroot. This will fix the problem we have now of people with the most time getting the most popular knives and avoid the problem of people with the most money getting all the popular knives that raising prices will create.



No sales on BST should be allowed to
be finalized in the first 24 hrs after posting. For in demand items, the seller should feel free to pick a familiar face to sell to, and if all things are otherwise equal, the seller should pick the buyer randomly using some sort of random number generator. No weight should be assigned to the time at which a PM was sent.


----------



## M1k3

valgard said:


> Buying your first car is not fun at all


What if your first car was a 67 big block Chevelle?


----------



## valgard

The man is on fire


----------



## valgard

M1k3 said:


> What if your first car was a 67 big block Chevelle?


The car doesn't matter, the process is painful unless money is not an issue


----------



## Barmoley

ian said:


> No sales on BST should be allowed to
> be finalized in the first 24 hrs after posting. For in demand items, the seller should feel free to pick a familiar face to sell to, and if all things are otherwise equal, the seller should pick the buyer randomly using some sort of random number generator. No weight should be assigned to the time at which a PM was sent.


That's not an opinion, this is how it already is, except the whole allowed not allowed bit.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Barmoley said:


> Popular western makers should use a lottery system similar to bloodroot. This will fix the problem we have now of people with the most time getting the most popular knives and avoid the problem of people with the most money getting all the popular knives that raising prices will create.
> 
> Alternatively, flipping should be encouraged, this way most popular knives can flow from people with the most time to people with the most money allowing equal distribution in the time vs money strata.


I don't think you understand capitalism.

Edit: didn't mean to sound snobby.

Those who make decent money i.e. salary work a TON and don't have lots of time. This probably is most people. Those with little money probably don't work a lot or need education, a higher priority.

Also, how do you think these popular makers got to be that way? The early adopters got on the list, and it built from there. Makers just starting out doing a lottery are destined to fail most often. 

The point is there is a lot to the equation than what's best for you.


----------



## ian

Barmoley said:


> That's not an opinion, this is how it already is, except the whole allowed not allowed bit.



Heh, it’s true that technically sellers can do what they want, but I think most people have expectations about BST that are contrary to what I expressed.


----------



## ian

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Those with little money probably don't work a lot or need education, a higher priority.



This is dismissive. Some people love jobs that are less highly paid. Some people don’t love their jobs, but access to more education or better employment isn’t an option for them for any number of reasons.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

ian said:


> This is dismissive. Some people love jobs that are less highly paid. Some people don’t love their jobs, but access to more education or better employment isn’t an option for them for any number of reasons.


It wasn't meant to be dismissive, just highlighting one of many reasons why the idea isn't right for all makers.


----------



## M1k3

Nor wrong for all makers.


----------



## Tim Rowland

This is unpopular opinions people, back on track....................

Burnt chestnut handles look like the wooden pickle from bad santa!.................feel great in hand though.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

M1k3 said:


> Nor wrong for all makers.


So you agree with me.


----------



## M1k3

Not everything you said.


----------



## captaincaed

You shouldn't be allowed to change your avatar picture more than once per year. I'm getting confused


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

M1k3 said:


> Not everything you said.


What then? Just reads like socialism to me.

Edited to add, I know this is a make believe thread, sorry to come off as upset.


----------



## ian

captaincaed said:


> You shouldn't be allowed to change your avatar picture more than once per year. I'm getting confused



Amen. The first time recently that @labor of love changed his avatar I almost gave up on this place.


----------



## Barmoley

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I don't think you understand capitalism.
> 
> Edit: didn't mean to sound snobby.
> 
> Those who make decent money i.e. salary work a TON and don't have lots of time. This probably is most people. Those with little money probably don't work a lot or need education, a higher priority.
> 
> Also, how do you think these popular makers got to be that way? The early adopters got on the list, and it built from there. Makers just starting out doing a lottery are destined to fail most often.
> 
> The point is there is a lot to the equation than what's best for you.


I love it when people first offend you, but then say "No offence" to make it all better. So to avoid this situation I'll say it first. I don't mean to sound snobby or dismissive.

I don't think you understood what I wrote. Please first re-read everything I wrote, think about it then respond again. Before you respond please think about the thread context. After you do all this thinking please re-read your response after this please again reevaluate my understanding of capitalism and my proposals. It will help to realize that a few *popular* makers claim that they want fairness and are upset that their knives get bought super fast and by the same people.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Barmoley said:


> I love it when people first offend you, but then say "No offence" to make it all better. So to avoid this situation I'll say it first. I don't mean to sound snobby or dismissive.
> 
> I don't think you understood what I wrote. Please first re-read everything I wrote, think about it then respond again. Before you respond please think about the thread context. After you do all this thinking please re-read your response after this please again reevaluate my understanding of capitalism and my proposals. It will help to realize that a few *popular* makers claim that they want fairness and are upset that their knives get bought super fast and by the same people.


Yeah, read it many times and still maintain my position.


----------



## Barmoley

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Yeah, read it many times and still maintain my position.


Hmmm, a larger problem then. You are entitled to your incorrect opinion ofcourse.

Forgetting for a second that this is, the unpopular opinion thread. Which part, lottery or flipping is socialism to you? Or me saying that some people have more time and some more money?


----------



## BillHanna

It doesn't matter if the butter is salted or unsalted


----------



## M1k3

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> What then? Just reads like socialism to me.
> 
> Edited to add, I know this is a make believe thread, sorry to come off as upset.


Taking a dump on a work force that does what they love despite barely scraping by financially.


----------



## captaincaed

Yeah! @M1k3 is back! I mean I think it's him, but how can I be sure now ....


----------



## Ruso

Capitalism is way too overrated in USA. And the word socialism is almost a swear word and don't ever dare mention communism. 
I would love this not to be the part of unpopular opinion thread - but it is what it is


----------



## M1k3

Universal Healthcare


----------



## BillHanna

Do unto others.... sounds more like communism or socialism, than capitalism. Community is important until money is involved.


----------



## Twigg




----------



## Matus

Banning people from certain threads should be unpopular enough


----------



## ian

Matus said:


> Banning people from certain threads should be unpopular enough



@M1k3, where’s your Neil deGrasse Tyson meme?


----------



## LostHighway

Must resist the temptation to offer either unpopular political or economics opinions

Eric Clapton is grossly over rated as an electric guitarist


----------



## Barmoley

Dammit. I wrote this whole dissertation of why certain econ-political systems are a bad idea and don't work and why reading comprehension and history are important, but then I'd be banned since the person I was responding to got his reply removed for I assume being political. My argument was economic, but on the fringes of politics....... Ah fine, back to work then.


----------



## Barclid

"Grr, socialism bad. Very scary."

-Average KKFer


----------



## Barclid

Nickelback is alright.


----------



## Barclid

Justin Bieber seems like a nice kid.


----------



## Barclid

Taylor Swift doesn't sing about heartache enough.


----------



## Barclid

Country music at large is great and not at all problematic in its lyrics and themes.


----------



## Barclid

Nicholas Cage is a very skilled actor.


----------



## Barclid

Kanye West would be a great president.


----------



## Barclid

We should all strive to live our lives like a reality TV show.


----------



## esoo

Barclid said:


> Kanye West would be a great president.


 He wouldn't be worse than what you got.


----------



## Qapla'

Barclid said:


> Nickelback is alright.


For what purpose? In Canada, Nickelback is used to induce confessions out of drunk-driving suspects.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/05/americas/police-canada-nickelback-dui-trnd/index.html


----------



## Barclid

esoo said:


> He wouldn't be worse than what you got.


This is excellent reasoning for decision making in life.


----------



## Barclid

Poe's Law is just a myth.


----------



## Barmoley

You guys that talk about socialism vs communism vs capitalism should probably look up what these econ-political systems actually are. You are throwing around statements about them that are simply not true and giving them attributes that these systems have nothing to do with. Disregarding communism, since that assumes infinite resources and totally ignores human nature, even socialism hasn't worked anywhere ever for long enough with a large enough group of people, since it too ignores human nature. The closest example we have is kibbutz in Israel and even that only worked for a relatively short period of time for a small group of like minded people.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Influencers deserve our respect.


----------



## Barclid

Carl Kotte said:


> Influencers deserve our respect.


Ryky has a lot to teach all of us and we should give him a special place on this platform.


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> @M1k3, where’s your Neil deGrasse Tyson meme?


No cultural appropriation. Also, that's what she said.


LostHighway said:


> Must resist the temptation to offer either unpopular political or economics opinions
> 
> Eric Clapton is grossly over rated as an electric guitarist


Dave Dedere! End.


Barclid said:


> Nickelback is alright.


Says the Puddle of Mud fan.


Barclid said:


> Ryky has a lot to teach all of us and we should give him a special place on this platform.


Dig that place for him right now.


----------



## BillHanna

Barmoley said:


> You are talking out of your ass


I accept that.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Barclid said:


> Ryky has a lot to teach all of us and we should give him a special place on this platform.


Isn’t there a way to make him president of the United States of Amekiri?


----------



## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> Isn’t there a way to make him president of the United States of Amekiri?


Not sure @pkjames would be happy.


----------



## bahamaroot

Many KKFer's take their own opinion WAY to seriously.


----------



## parbaked

Bladesmiths should sue their customers who mistreat or otherwise alter their knives...

Pro tip: Use the Bulgarian courts!


----------



## Barclid

M1k3 said:


> Dig that place for him right now.


I started writing an erotic fanfic between Ryky and the KKF community set in the year 2059 during the campaign for the 12th term of Trump's pickled head, but I lost steam after the first paragraph.


----------



## iimi

parbaked said:


> Bladesmiths should sue their customers who mistreat or otherwise alter their knives...
> 
> Pro tip: Use the Bulgarian courts!


I see a trend here


----------



## Barmoley

BillHanna said:


> I accept that.



Not cool modifying what I said in a quote, since it makes it look as if I said it. Even as a joke. This illustrates a flaw in this software though. You can quote someone and change what they said. Would be even worse if the original post would then be removed.


----------



## BillHanna

Barmoley said:


> Not cool modifying what I said in a quote, since it makes it look as if I said it. Even as a joke. This illustrates a flaw in this software though. You can quote someone and change what they said. Would be even worse if the original post would then be removed.


No harm meant. I apologize for an incorrect summary. I was just trying to save space.

Edit: I’ve never considered the last sentence.


----------



## BillHanna

Kobe Bryant wasn’t as great as they say he was.


----------



## LostHighway

"No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people*.* Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby. The mistake that is made always runs the other way. " H L Mencken 1926


----------



## soigne_west

Is it a full moon? Cause people are loosing it today.


----------



## LostHighway

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country." 
Edward Bernays 1928
Bernays was an interesting character, do your homework if you're unfamiliar with him


----------



## ian

LostHighway said:


> "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country."
> Edward Bernays 1928
> Bernays was an interesting character, do your homework if you're unfamiliar with him



Never been a fan of Bearnaise.


----------



## BillHanna

Hollandaise?


----------



## parbaked

ian said:


> Never been a fan of Bearnaise.


That's because you're too smart to eat filet mignon so you don't need it...


----------



## daveb

LostHighway said:


> Eric Clapton is grossly over rated as an electric guitarist



JJ Cale wrote all his good songs and showed him how to play them........


----------



## M1k3

Barclid said:


> I started writing an erotic fanfic between Ryky and the KKF community set in the year 2059 during the campaign for the 12th term of Trump's pickled head, but I lost steam after the first paragraph.


Started off great. Grabbed my attention all the to the end. The ending had no resolution and was a let down. A maybe buy from the bargain bin.


----------



## daveb

Barclid said:


> "Grr, socialism bad. Very scary."
> 
> -Average KKFer



All KKF'rs are above average. Except of course M1K3


----------



## daveb

BillHanna said:


> Kobe Bryant wasn’t as great as they say he was.



Name another sports figure that was a rapist and MVP the same year. (Of course that says more about BBall than Kobe)


----------



## ian

Barclid said:


> I started writing an erotic fanfic between Ryky and the KKF community set in the year 2059 during the campaign for the 12th term of Trump's pickled head, but I lost steam after the first paragraph.





M1k3 said:


> Started off great. Grabbed my attention all the to the end. The ending had no resolution and was a let down. A maybe buy from the bargain bin.



Ryky walked into the room. Barclid stood there, waiting to be noticed. His feathered fedora was brushed till it shone, and the third button on his vest was only half inserted, a sign to those in certain circles that he was a gentleman with an appetite for adventure.

Their eyes locked. Barclid could not tell whether the chill he felt was in anticipation of physical conflict, or of a more intimate contest. Either way, he had met his match.


----------



## bahamaroot

soigne_west said:


> Is it a full moon? Cause people are loosing it today.


----------



## Barclid

ian said:


> Ryky walked into the room. Barclid stood there, waiting to be noticed. His feathered fedora was brushed till it shone, and the third button on his vest was only half inserted, a sign to those in certain circles that he was a gentleman with an appetite for adventure.
> 
> Their eyes locked. Barclid could not tell whether the chill he felt was in anticipation of physical conflict, or of a more intimate contest. Either way, he could tell he had met his match.


Careful, I learned in the Shig DIY thread that I could sue you for using my name.


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> Universal Healthcare


I hate being an Australian communist, it feels like our number of medical bankruptcies (zero) is a massive missed opportunity.



LostHighway said:


> Eric Clapton is grossly over rated as an electric guitarist


Agreed. 50 years ago, however, this was completely untrue.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

daveb said:


> Name another sports figure that was a rapist and MVP the same year. (Of course that says more about BBall than Kobe)



Legally speaking, not a rapist. He was never convicted. 
The fact that the case was dropped because the accuser was unwilling to testify...


----------



## M1k3

daveb said:


> All KKF'rs are above average. Except of course M1K3


----------



## bahamaroot

applepieforbreakfast said:


> Legally speaking, not a rapist. He was never convicted.
> The fact that the case was dropped because the accuser was unwilling to testify...


In fear of losing the millions Kobe paid her not to.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

LostHighway said:


> Must resist the temptation to offer either unpopular political or economics opinions
> 
> Eric Clapton is grossly over rated as an electric guitarist



Clapton was better on coke.
I wish he'd fall off the wagon.
I feel the same about James Hetfield and Metallica.


----------



## M1k3

Genesis > their solo careers


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

bahamaroot said:


> In fear of losing the millions Kobe paid her not to.



Well, yeah. A lot can be contained in an ellipsis.


----------



## BillHanna

Cheese is overrated


----------



## Ryndunk

Bacon is overrated


----------



## juice

applepieforbreakfast said:


> Clapton was better on coke.


Yeah-nah. EARLY Clapton was better on coke. I saw him in the 80s, and he was more beige than @Carl Kotte


----------



## juice

Ryndunk said:


> Bacon is overrated



Not when you have it with low-carb pancakes!


----------



## Twigg

Vince Shlomi's Slap Chop made the rock chop method obsolete.


----------



## BillHanna

You’re gonna love his nuts.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Barclid said:


> I started writing an erotic fanfic between Ryky and the KKF community set in the year 2059 during the campaign for the 12th term of Trump's pickled head, but I lost steam after the first paragraph.



You failed to follow the first rule of fanfic writing... keep both hands above the table at all times.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Barclid said:


> I started writing an erotic fanfic between Ryky and the KKF community set in the year 2059 during the campaign for the 12th term of Trump's pickled head, but I lost steam after the first paragraph.


How much Do you want for that first paragraph?


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> Genesis > their solo careers


South park proved it: Phil Collins - he’s impossible to make even remotely funny; it’s just too depressing.

On the other hand, I smiled when I saw the poster for his ’still not dead yet’ tour.


----------



## tchan001

I love this thread for being an outlet to the freedom to only be politically correct.


----------



## juice

tchan001 said:


> I love this thread for being an outlet to the freedom to only be politically correct.


I dunno, I just got called a racist in the Shig-butchering thread...


----------



## tchan001

That's a different thread.


----------



## Dhoff

M1k3 said:


>



Don't worry M1k3, it is because you are "way above average" I'm certain.


----------



## M1k3

Dhoff said:


> Don't worry M1k3, it is because you are "way above average" I'm certain.


Aye! Wrong thread?


----------



## dafox

Tall gyutos are stupid!


----------



## captaincaed

Why the **** am I reading Ryky slash fiction. Y'all some sick ***** around here


----------



## Barclid

captaincaed said:


> Why the **** am I reading Ryky slash fiction. Y'all some sick ***** around here


Just wait until we get the creative juices really flowing. We'll come out with a full-fledged novel.

Don't worry. Everyone will, of course, be given different names for the sake of deniability. "BarashkaY' "Lyky" "captainsaed" "Iiiiiiiiiiian" "Mk13" etc. It will be totally unrecognizable.


----------



## Inosuke Hashibira

The more expensive your knife is, the faster it is for your knife skills to improve.


----------



## ian

This is a bit off topic considering the number of US members here, but it's a true belief:

_Fahrenheit is better than Celsius!_

All y'all Celsius-defending wackos gotta stop obsessing over water so much and start concentrating on what temperature it is outside, which is what really matters most of the time. I mean, how often do you talk about the boiling point of water at sea level? It's true that one does talk a lot about the freezing point, since that makes a big difference in the weather, but I don't think it outweighs the beautiful simplicity of "0 is very cold. 100 is very hot."

This post is prompted by a recent conversation with a smart and thoughtful Canadian.


----------



## daveb

If we (US) had used the Covid downtime to convert to metric we could have accomplished something.

Would have disrupted the riots as well, "how many meters do I have to throw this brick? F*** if I know, lets go home."


----------



## Corradobrit1

Americans need to stop using imperial weights and measures. Its the 21st Century guys and only the US, Liberia and Myanmar never got the email.


----------



## Tim Rowland

freedom units are better


----------



## Corradobrit1

Tim Rowland said:


> freedom units are better


Not much freedom in Myanmar


----------



## Tim Rowland

Yes but I speak of the great American freedom units


----------



## ian

Inches/feet/miles are idiotic. But Fahrenheit is not.


----------



## Tim Rowland

Well it got us to the moon (Actual astronauts on surface).............nobody else can say that besides the Russians.........so


----------



## esoo

ian said:


> This is a bit off topic considering the number of US members here, but it's a true belief:
> 
> _Fahrenheit is better than Celsius!_
> 
> All y'all Celsius-defending wackos gotta stop obsessing over water so much and start concentrating on what temperature it is outside, which is what really matters most of the time. I mean, how often do you talk about the boiling point of water at sea level? It's true that one does talk a lot about the freezing point, since that makes a big difference in the weather, but I don't think it outweighs the beautiful simplicity of "0 is very cold. 100 is very hot."
> 
> This post is prompted by a recent conversation with a smart and thoughtful Canadian.



Yeah, it's easier to consider "it's below zero, you gonna freeze" in Celsius.


----------



## ian

Tim Rowland said:


> Well it got us to the moon (Actual astronauts on surface).............nobody else can say that besides the Russians.........so



True, and the moon is closer in miles than in km, too. Maybe that helped?


----------



## ian

esoo said:


> Yeah, it's easier to consider "it's below zero, you gonna freeze" in _Fahrenheit._



Fixed your post. 32F/0C is not so bad to most humans.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Tim Rowland said:


> Well it got us to the moon (Actual astronauts on surface).............nobody else can say that besides the Russians.........so


Maybe lucky too








The Time NASA Lost a Mars Orbiter Because of a Metric System Mixup


Using the metric system onboard a spacecraft and imperial on the ground can have disastrous consequences.




www.vice.com


----------



## Tim Rowland

Corradobrit1 said:


> Maybe lucky too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Time NASA Lost a Mars Orbiter Because of a Metric System Mixup
> 
> 
> Using the metric system onboard a spacecraft and imperial on the ground can have disastrous consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vice.com



Eh, **** happens


----------



## spaceconvoy

we might be able to convince American men to switch to metric if they realized measuring in cm would let them brag about packing double digits


----------



## ian

Eh, American men can all already do that, and it’d be less impressive in cm.


----------



## Ruso

I can do it in mm, but real KKFers measure it in 240gyutos! Mine is 1.5 TFG 0-O


----------



## Corradobrit1

Tim Rowland said:


> Well it got us to the moon (Actual astronauts on surface).............nobody else can say that besides the Russians.........so


Armstrong never set foot on the moon, just a film set in Hollywood


----------



## Tim Rowland

Corradobrit1 said:


> Armstrong never set foot on the moon, just a film set in Hollywood



I actually agree with you on that but I am also a level 7 conspiracy theorist


----------



## LostHighway

ian said:


> Inches/feet/miles are idiotic. But Fahrenheit is not.



True that! Fahrenheit was based on the coldest temperatures (0F) and the warmest temperatures (100F) that could sustain human habitation. His early 18th C data was a bit off but the concept was sound for climate and weather. Celsius belongs in a laboratory not in daily use.

The use of the old imperial volumetric measurements in cooking and baking is insane and should be replaced by weight


----------



## valgard

LostHighway said:


> True that! Fahrenheit was based on the coldest temperatures (0F) and the warmest temperatures (100F) that could sustain human habitation. His early 18th C data was a bit off but the concept was sound for climate and weather. Celsius belongs in a laboratory not in daily use.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Tim Rowland said:


> I actually agree with you on that but I am also a level 7 conspiracy theorist View attachment 88785


For the record, I don't agree with this unpopular opinion. Just moving the thread along.


----------



## Dhoff

ian said:


> This is a bit off topic considering the number of US members here, but it's a true belief:
> 
> _Fahrenheit is better than Celsius!_
> 
> All y'all Celsius-defending wackos gotta stop obsessing over water so much and start concentrating on what temperature it is outside, which is what really matters most of the time. I mean, how often do you talk about the boiling point of water at sea level? It's true that one does talk a lot about the freezing point, since that makes a big difference in the weather, but I don't think it outweighs the beautiful simplicity of "0 is very cold. 100 is very hot."
> 
> This post is prompted by a recent conversation with a smart and thoughtful Canadian.



Then again all must bow to Kelvin. Nothing beats saying "damn waters frozen, its only 273,15 Kelvin"

Then again, some scientists claim it can get colder than 0 K, and that e.g. gravity is behaving in the opposite manner under these conditions.

On a completely unrelated side note it also seems some scientists have created "solid" light. Lightsaber gyoto incoming!

To keep in topic:

Tax on cars should in all countries be based on the amount of pollution.

The earth is bloody less than 100.000 years old.

Evolution is not a theory and more than gravity is.


----------



## daveb

ian said:


> Fixed your post. 32F/0C is not so bad to most humans.



Always impressed when Ian does maths


----------



## Jville

spaceconvoy said:


> we might be able to convince American men to switch to metric if they realized measuring in cm would let them brag about packing double digits


It will mess up the rounding up though.


Corradobrit1 said:


> For the record, I don't agree with this unpopular opinion. Just moving the thread along.


Poser


----------



## ian

daveb said:


> Always impressed when Ian does maths



Real mathematicians can even divide by zero.


----------



## ian

Dhoff said:


> The earth is bloody less than 100.000 years old.



I agree! Why the need for 3 decimal precision, though? Is that important to your point? I’ve never met anyone older than 95 myself.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Same reason American football is played instead of that round ball everybody else uses.


----------



## spaceconvoy

ok, here's an actual unpopular opinion I have that's not a joke - we faked the moon landing. We also did legitimately land on the moon. The government prepared a fake moon landing video to avoid embarrassment in case of a technical problem with the live broadcast, but it wasn't necessary.


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> ok, here's an actual unpopular opinion I have that's not a joke - we faked the moon landing. We also did legitimately land on the moon. The government prepared a fake moon landing video to avoid embarrassment in case of a technical problem with the live broadcast, but it wasn't necessary.



Seriously? I mean, ok, I guess it’s within the realm of possibility that someone in the administration might have tried to get a fake video made prior to launch, and then that fake video was never shown to anyone, but what’s the point in thinking about such things absent any reliable evidence? I mean, if there were anything out there to support something like that, it would have been a huge news story...


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Backyard racism when I was a kid in Virginia my mother told me that Scottish were better than the Irish.

My Scottish uncle liked to go fox hunting on horseback a questionable English tradition. When he got old lost his marbles he would go out & sleep with his hound dogs. 

Now have African American, Native American, Chinese, in my extended family. Mixed race women are hot just look at Hawaii.


----------



## daveb

Corradobrit1 said:


> Armstrong never set foot on the moon, just a film set in Hollywood



Mr Gorsky would find that assertion real unpopular....


----------



## Barmoley

Even Soviets during the worst of the Cold War acknowledged that US landed on the moon, what other proof do you need


----------



## BillHanna

Dhoff said:


> On a completely unrelated side note it also seems some scientists have created "solid" light. Lightsaber gyoto incoming!


Great. Another “what is a laser” thread.


----------



## BillHanna

Crossover vehicles are stupid. Just buy a hatchback.


----------



## Tim Rowland

K-tip gyutos are stupid and are only liked by wannabe ninja cooks.


----------



## Chunkybananahead

applepieforbreakfast said:


> I'm equal parts disgusted and curious.
> Do you have a recommended brand of orange sherbet?


No particular brand of either. 
TBF I was verrrrry sceptical at first as well. 
yes, it’s very similar to Dreamsicles.


----------



## Don Nguyen

Imperial is better for tolerances. Thousandths and tenths of thousandths of an inch are intuitive in manufacturing. Millimetres are not.


----------



## juice

LostHighway said:


> True that! Fahrenheit was based on the coldest temperatures (0F) and the warmest temperatures (100F) that could sustain human habitation. His early 18th C data was a bit off but the concept was sound for climate and weather. Celsius belongs in a laboratory not in daily use.


OK, I'm convinced based on the fact that he had no idea.



Don Nguyen said:


> Imperial is better for tolerances. Thousandths and tenths of thousandths of an inch are intuitive in manufacturing. Millimetres are not.


They solved that by have units even smaller than millimetres! #NoReally


----------



## Twigg

What about micrometers and the rest of the nanoscale?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Don Nguyen said:


> Imperial is better for tolerances. Thousandths and tenths of thousandths of an inch are intuitive in manufacturing. Millimetres are not.


This is a joke right.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

White people would miss out on good food if not for people of color from all parts of the world. All countries South of the border from Mexico to tip of Chili, Middle Eastern with wonderful spices, India more great spices, Asia, China, Japan, Southeast Asia Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam. 

Armstrong not landing on the moon & other garbage theorys like it maybe fun in jest. In virtual world a lot of flat out lies aimed at people's fears and others agendas are popular. People believed Hitler & Gobbles that Jews were vermin to be exterminated. Then they used radio.

The same guy that started Obama birthing story saying he was born in Kenya, did much more crazy lies stated as fact. Going after the parents of elementary school kids murdered. He made millions selling survival gear, pills. Not a big fan of Hilary Clinton, but his rant that she was holding children using them for sex in a pizza place had a guy go there with a gun to kill the evil Hilary.

My relative David Sinclair delivered Obama in 1961. He was a fighter pilot in WW2 in pacific. Delivered babies for years in Hawaii. He had passed away no one of the family had any clue until Obama provided birth certificate with doctors name on it because he was under attack from Trump & others saying he was not American born. Look it up if you still think he was born in Kenya. Some people still believe that, must be true saw it on the internet.


----------



## spaceconvoy

ian said:


> Seriously? I mean, ok, I guess it’s within the realm of possibility that someone in the administration might have tried to get a fake video made prior to launch, and then that fake video was never shown to anyone, but what’s the point in thinking about such things absent any reliable evidence? I mean, if there were anything out there to support something like that, it would have been a huge news story...



[this was supposed to be unpopular opinions about knives, right? oh well, here goes...]

Remember the US government worked closely with Hollywood during WWII to create faked footage for propaganda purposes - this is absolutely true and uncontroversial. When the Office of War Information was disbanded in 1945 its departments were not dissolved but transferred to other agencies, the majority to what would become the United States Information Agency. So it's not a matter of some_one_ in the administration, but an entire agency whose purpose was to create and disperse propaganda to help win the Cold War.

"Former USIA Director Alvin Snyder recalled in his 1995 memoir that "the U.S. government ran a full-service public relations organization, the largest in the world, about the size of the twenty biggest U.S. commercial PR firms combined. Its full-time professional staff of more than 10,000 spread out among some 150 countries, burnished America‘s image and trashed the Soviet Union 2,500 hours a week with a tower of babble comprised of more than 70 languages, to the tune of over $2 billion per year"..."
United States Information Agency - Wikipedia

There will never be a smoking gun, but if you read about the stunning amount of support given to Kubrick by the US government during the making of 2001, it's hard not to be suspicious. Here's Frederick Ordway, NASA engineer and Kubrick's main technical advisor on 2001, describing the work he did for the film:

"Lovejoy and I visited many NASA and other space installations which we photographed thoroughly inside and out. They included the Marshall Center in Huntsville; the Langley Research Center in Newport News, Virginia; and the National Weather Satellite Center near Washington, D.C. [Arthur C.] Clarke and I had a long session at the Grumman Aircraft Engineering Company in Bethpage, Long Island, on the 11th of March -- the first of several visits designed to keep us current on progress with what was then called Apollo's lunar excursion module (later, simply 'lunar module')."
http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/0075.html

Why would NASA, in the middle of the space race, allow unprecedented access to cutting edge technology currently in development? Does it make sense to you that they were merely helping a private citizen make a motion picture for a private company? It would have been analogous to allowing Orson Welles to review Oppenheimer's math during the Manhattan Project.

Yes, I fully realize this is tinfoil-hat territory, and very likely untrue. But to answer your question "what’s the point in thinking about such things absent any reliable evidence?" - the point is to question neatly packaged narratives about pure patriotic triumphs. Believing my theory in no way detracts from the Apollo project being an awesome scientific undertaking that put a man on the moon. But discounting that it's at least a strong possibility only serves to ignore the messy reality of government and information warfare.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Keith Sinclair said:


> Gobbles


Stupid autocorrect


----------



## Twigg

.


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> [this was supposed to be unpopular opinions about knives, right? oh well, here goes...]
> 
> Remember the US government worked closely with Hollywood during WWII to create faked footage for propaganda purposes - this is absolutely true and uncontroversial. When the Office of War Information was disbanded in 1945 its departments were not dissolved but transferred to other agencies, the majority to what would become the United States Information Agency. So it's not a matter of some_one_ in the administration, but an entire agency whose purpose was to create and disperse propaganda to help win the Cold War.
> 
> "Former USIA Director Alvin Snyder recalled in his 1995 memoir that "the U.S. government ran a full-service public relations organization, the largest in the world, about the size of the twenty biggest U.S. commercial PR firms combined. Its full-time professional staff of more than 10,000 spread out among some 150 countries, burnished America‘s image and trashed the Soviet Union 2,500 hours a week with a tower of babble comprised of more than 70 languages, to the tune of over $2 billion per year"..."
> United States Information Agency - Wikipedia
> 
> There will never be a smoking gun, but if you read about the stunning amount of support given to Kubrick by the US government during the making of 2001, it's hard not to be suspicious. Here's Frederick Ordway, NASA engineer and Kubrick's main technical advisor on 2001, describing the work he did for the film:
> 
> "Lovejoy and I visited many NASA and other space installations which we photographed thoroughly inside and out. They included the Marshall Center in Huntsville; the Langley Research Center in Newport News, Virginia; and the National Weather Satellite Center near Washington, D.C. [Arthur C.] Clarke and I had a long session at the Grumman Aircraft Engineering Company in Bethpage, Long Island, on the 11th of March -- the first of several visits designed to keep us current on progress with what was then called Apollo's lunar excursion module (later, simply 'lunar module')."
> http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/0075.html
> 
> Why would NASA, in the middle of the space race, allow unprecedented access to cutting edge technology currently in development? Does it make sense to you that they were merely helping a private citizen make a motion picture for a private company? It would have been analogous to allowing Orson Welles to review Oppenheimer's math during the Manhattan Project.
> 
> Yes, I fully realize this is tinfoil-hat territory, and very likely untrue. But to answer your question "what’s the point in thinking about such things absent any reliable evidence?" - the point is to question neatly packaged narratives about pure patriotic triumphs. Believing my theory in no way detracts from the Apollo project being an awesome scientific undertaking that put a man on the moon. But discounting that it's at least a strong possibility only serves to ignore the messy reality of government and information warfare.



I dunno. The Kubrick thing could just as easily be that scientists were psyched to have a famous movie director get inspiration from their work. I doubt they were showing him anything top secret... that’s not nearly compelling enough to make me start thinking this is a useful thought exercise.

I mean, think whatever you want, as long as you don’t make important decisions based on these theories, or inspire others to do so. I’m in the camp of “there’s zero compelling evidence, and the truth of this wouldn’t affect my life anyway, so why spend time thinking about this?”


----------



## Don Nguyen

No I'm not joking about the units.



Twigg said:


> What about micrometers and the rest of the nanoscale?



Here's an example: hole tolerancing. For a specific fit, the tolerance is often +/-0.0005", or half a thou, or 5 tenths. From a machining/manufacturing standpoint, that's a very easy standard to visualize and feel and a useful increment to work with. There are a lot of operations and tolerancing in machining that are based simply off a thou. Millimeters is just too awkward a size to work with, where 0.1mm is still too large for precise operations and the next unit down is a difference of three orders of magnitude. Using 0.0127mm or 12.7micrometers is just awkward.


----------



## Twigg

Don Nguyen said:


> No I'm not joking about the units.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an example: hole tolerancing. For a specific fit, the tolerance is often +/-0.0005", or half a thou, or 5 tenths. From a machining/manufacturing standpoint, that's a very easy standard to visualize and feel and a useful increment to work with. There are a lot of operations and tolerancing in machining that are based simply off a thou. Millimeters is just too awkward a size to work with, where 0.1mm is still too large for precise operations and the next unit down is a difference of three orders of magnitude. Using 0.0127mm or 12.7micrometers is just awkward.


Excellant point! I complete forgot about the manufacturing and machinist perspective.


----------



## Garm

Keith Sinclair said:


> White people would miss out on good food if not for people of color from all parts of the world. All countries South of the border from Mexico to tip of Chili, Middle Eastern with wonderful spices, India more great spices, Asia, China, Japan, Southeast Asia Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam.


Is this actually an unpopular opinion/statement on this forum though?


----------



## juice

Don Nguyen said:


> Using 0.0127mm or 12.7micrometers is just awkward.


Yeah, but working in metric means not relating everything back to imperial, so you don't get weird numbers like that.


----------



## valgard

Don Nguyen said:


> No I'm not joking about the units.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an example: hole tolerancing. For a specific fit, the tolerance is often +/-0.0005", or half a thou, or 5 tenths. From a machining/manufacturing standpoint, that's a very easy standard to visualize and feel and a useful increment to work with. There are a lot of operations and tolerancing in machining that are based simply off a thou. Millimeters is just too awkward a size to work with, where 0.1mm is still too large for precise operations and the next unit down is a difference of three orders of magnitude. Using 0.0127mm or 12.7micrometers is just awkward.


it's only weird because of your starting point being imperial, which is weird AF and not even decimal


----------



## spaceconvoy

But working in metric means parts are not proportional. Take a look at something as basic as screw dimensions. In the imperial system, every nut and bolt is proportional - you can copy and paste their design and simply change the scale. With metric, an M3 flathead screw has a different profile than an M4, for instance, because they're decimal based rather than fractional. That's the real strength of imperial when it comes to machining.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Goebbels forgot the e

This thread off topic for a while. The moon shot stuff got me going. Langley Research Center is in Hampton Va. At Langley AFB. Not in Newport News as you stated. 

My Father worked there from 1939 when it was NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) It became NASA late 50's because Russians were beating us into space. He retired after all the moon shots. As a kid grew up early days of space race. My best friend's father was head engineer of X15 rocket plane.


----------



## Don Nguyen

juice said:


> Yeah, but working in metric means not relating everything back to imperial, so you don't get weird numbers like that.



What I'm saying though is that every increment of a thou is a physically intuitive and incredibly useful standard. One mm is useless for precision and one micron is too small (and apparently there's nothing in between those units...). Even 0.1mm is too large for intuitive machining operations.


----------



## juice

Don Nguyen said:


> What I'm saying though is that every increment of a thou is a physically intuitive and incredibly useful standard.


Sure, because it's what you're used to using.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Don Nguyen said:


> What I'm saying though is that every increment of a thou is a physically intuitive and incredibly useful standard. One mm is useless for precision and one micron is too small (and apparently there's nothing in between those units...). Even 0.1mm is too large for intuitive machining operations.


I don't know how the Germans. Brits and Japanese, and any other country doing high precision engineering cope.


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> [this was supposed to be unpopular opinions about knives, right? oh well, here goes...]
> 
> Remember the US government worked closely with Hollywood during WWII to create faked footage for propaganda purposes - this is absolutely true and uncontroversial. When the Office of War Information was disbanded in 1945 its departments were not dissolved but transferred to other agencies, the majority to what would become the United States Information Agency. So it's not a matter of some_one_ in the administration, but an entire agency whose purpose was to create and disperse propaganda to help win the Cold War.
> 
> "Former USIA Director Alvin Snyder recalled in his 1995 memoir that "the U.S. government ran a full-service public relations organization, the largest in the world, about the size of the twenty biggest U.S. commercial PR firms combined. Its full-time professional staff of more than 10,000 spread out among some 150 countries, burnished America‘s image and trashed the Soviet Union 2,500 hours a week with a tower of babble comprised of more than 70 languages, to the tune of over $2 billion per year"..."
> United States Information Agency - Wikipedia
> 
> There will never be a smoking gun, but if you read about the stunning amount of support given to Kubrick by the US government during the making of 2001, it's hard not to be suspicious. Here's Frederick Ordway, NASA engineer and Kubrick's main technical advisor on 2001, describing the work he did for the film:
> 
> "Lovejoy and I visited many NASA and other space installations which we photographed thoroughly inside and out. They included the Marshall Center in Huntsville; the Langley Research Center in Newport News, Virginia; and the National Weather Satellite Center near Washington, D.C. [Arthur C.] Clarke and I had a long session at the Grumman Aircraft Engineering Company in Bethpage, Long Island, on the 11th of March -- the first of several visits designed to keep us current on progress with what was then called Apollo's lunar excursion module (later, simply 'lunar module')."
> http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/0075.html
> 
> Why would NASA, in the middle of the space race, allow unprecedented access to cutting edge technology currently in development? Does it make sense to you that they were merely helping a private citizen make a motion picture for a private company? It would have been analogous to allowing Orson Welles to review Oppenheimer's math during the Manhattan Project.
> 
> Yes, I fully realize this is tinfoil-hat territory, and very likely untrue. But to answer your question "what’s the point in thinking about such things absent any reliable evidence?" - the point is to question neatly packaged narratives about pure patriotic triumphs. Believing my theory in no way detracts from the Apollo project being an awesome scientific undertaking that put a man on the moon. But discounting that it's at least a strong possibility only serves to ignore the messy reality of government and information warfare.



Sorry, and why on earth would you hire a famous director and his crew to fake the moon landing? Talk about a security risk. You’re not making an art film... you just want some footage of astronauts on the moon, presumably!

This is complete lunacy, if you’ll pardon the moon pun.


----------



## tkern

Catcher in the rye is a ****** book


----------



## spaceconvoy

ian said:


> Sorry, and why on earth would you hire a famous director and his crew to fake the moon landing? Talk about a security risk. You’re not making an art film... you just want some footage of astronauts on the moon, presumably!



How exactly would you be sure to capture realistic footage that would hold up to international scrutiny, for a setting no one has ever visited? Some random hack or the smartest working director? And that's the brilliance of using 2001 A Space Odyssey as the cover. The entire cast and crew don't have to know they're faking the moon landing, just one person you can easily leverage, in exchange for unlimited access to NASA research and a massive budget with complete creative control. His own reputation would be enough to minimize the security risk. All you have to do is ship in the lunar module mockup NASA used for training, and the covert side of the operation can be accomplished by very few people compared to your proposal, and with far more convincing results.


----------



## spaceconvoy




----------



## ian

Sigh... to fake a moon landing, hire a special effects team. As much as I like Kubrick, you don’t need to hire the director of Spartacus and Lolita.


----------



## Twigg

ian said:


> Sigh... to fake a moon landing, hire a special effects team. As much as I like Kubrick, you don’t need to hire the director of Spartacus and Lolita.


Lifeline- You are getting sucked in to drama that is unnecessary and ridiculous.


----------



## ian

Twigg said:


> Lifeline- You are getting sucked in to drama that is unnecessary and ridiculous.



my savior!


----------



## spaceconvoy

Drama? Does this theoretical argument actually threaten your worldview? I've been totally upfront about the likely possibility this is all ********, just thinking through how it would have been accomplished... By your own logic, wouldn't hiring a team specifically for the purpose of faking the moon landing be a bigger security risk than co-opting a director of a legitimate film? And again, how does this special effects team know what humans on the moon's surface would look like? It's a huge research project in itself, and was the focus of considerable attention and resources during the making of 2001.


----------



## Twigg

Bless your heart


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Not this sh!t again...


----------



## juice

ian said:


> Sigh... to fake a moon landing, hire a special effects team. As much as I like Kubrick, you don’t need to hire the director of Spartacus and Lolita.


My favourite bit about these conspiracy theories is that somehow nobody involved ever breaks out and explains how they're actually conspiracies, but most people can't keep an irrelevant "secret" for more than two minutes...


----------



## ian

juice said:


> My favourite bit about these conspiracy theories is that somehow nobody involved ever breaks out and explains how they're actually conspiracies, but most people can't keep an irrelevant "secret" for more than two minutes...



What I don’t get is why NASA would go to all the trouble to hire Stanley Kubrick to fake a moon landing when there is no moon. I mean, why go to the trouble of putting the fake image up in the sky to begin with? It must have taken some thought to coordinate it so that all the stars and the moon look like they’re orbiting a “round” earth, whatever that means.


----------



## spaceconvoy

juice said:


> My favourite bit about these conspiracy theories is that somehow nobody involved ever breaks out and explains how they're actually conspiracies, but most people can't keep an irrelevant "secret" for more than two minutes...



Stanley Kubrick & ‘2001’: Over Budget and Behind Schedule — but a Radical Classic

"In March 1968, just a few weeks before the film’s launch, writer Arthur C. Clarke told _Variety_ reporter Jerry Beigel that Kubrick’s secrecy was not a PR stunt. “There were times when he cleared the entire set, and only he and the cameramen know what was filmed.” "

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Well at least we've found a legitimately unpopular opinion


----------



## BillHanna

Your prize is a moon rock signed by Kubrick, Elvis, Tupac, and the guy at the front gate of Area 51.


----------



## juice

spaceconvoy said:


> “There were times when he cleared the entire set, and only he and the cameramen know what was filmed.” "


Along with the people being filmed, the editors, etc.. The point stands.

Anyone thinking that people aren't dying to tell someone stuff that they know that other people don't know has never been a journalist. The idea that "secrets" like this can remain secrets for this long is lunacy.


----------



## BillHanna

Do you have anything juicy you’re taking to the grave? Not asking what it is, just if it exists. 

(Wholly intentional pun)


----------



## spaceconvoy

BillHanna said:


> Your prize is a moon rock signed by Kubrick, Elvis, Tupac, and the guy at the front gate of Area 51.



Excellent! Similar to my theory, the existence of such an object is fully within the realm of possibility, however improbable. Where can I pick it up?


----------



## BillHanna

Just wait. They’ll come pick YOU up.


----------



## BillHanna

You should listen to Welcome To Nightvale. The Secret Police are the LEAST of your worries.

It’s a really fun podcast.


----------



## daveb

Don Nguyen said:


> What I'm saying though.....



Don,

I'm sure this will be a popular opinion - good to see you stopping by Don.

Hopefully we'll see you some more and not just in threads where everyone (except me) is loony tunes

Bless their hearts.


----------



## Ruso

Don Nguyen said:


> What I'm saying though is that every increment of a thou is a physically intuitive and incredibly useful standard. One mm is useless for precision and one micron is too small (and apparently there's nothing in between those units...). Even 0.1mm is too large for intuitive machining operations.


I don’t get it, how come +/-0.0005" is intuitive but +/-0.001mm (1micron) for example is not?


----------



## panda

the beatles suck


----------



## parbaked

K-Pop is overrated


----------



## juice

Ruso said:


> I don’t get it, how come +/-0.0005" is intuitive but +/-0.001mm (1micron) for example is not?


Because "intuitive" doesn't mean "sensible," it means "what I grew up with/learned and so I automatically think in these terms."

There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not a good defence of the *rationality *a measuring system because it's necessarily limited to people who grew up with/learned those systems initially (whatever that system is). It's especially bad when the system being rejected is decimal/linear and thus significantly easier to make sense of overall.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

panda said:


> the beatles suck



I don't know that they suck, but I definitely feel like the Beatles circlejerk is definitely played out at this point.


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> the beatles suck


The shirogami album is amazing.


----------



## daveb

labor of love said:


> The shirogami album is amazing.



Ive got a German pressingx cica 1980. Wanna trade for knifes?


----------



## juice

daveb said:


> Ive got a German pressingx cica 1980. Wanna trade for knifes?


If he brings knives, he could leave with both...


----------



## tkern

Steve vai is a better guitarist than Joe satriani


----------



## juice

tkern said:


> Steve vai is a better guitarist than Joe satriani


Nuno Bettencourt is better than those two combined


----------



## tkern

You're wrong but I appreciate your tenacity. If you threw malmsteen into it then I can see... But Nuno.. very talented but.. Nuno.. Buckethead or paul Gilbert would take him down 
Edit: also John petrucci


----------



## juice

tkern said:


> You're wrong but I appreciate your tenacity. If you threw malmsteen into it then I can see... But Nuno.. very talented but.. Nuno.. Buckethead or paul Gilbert would take him down


Ah, see, I thought we were talking about overall musicality, not just VROOM VROOM RAWR!!! speed!!!     

(Also, I loved Vai in Yankee Rose, from DLR's short-lived supergroup 

(I saw Extreme with Mr Big supporting here in Melbourne a couple of years ago - Paul was good but spent the whole set goofing off, clearly on autopilot, which was disappointing, as I really like him. Billy was utterly UTTERLY amazing, as expected, and Eric can very clearly no longer sing. OTOH, Extreme were even better than I expected, and I'd waited two decades to see them. Only disappointment was the (as expected) truncated version of Decadance Dance  I just love that opening chord...)


----------



## Corradobrit1

juice said:


> Nuno Bettencourt is better than those two combined


No love for fellow Aussies Malcolm and Angus?


----------



## juice

Corradobrit1 said:


> No love for fellow Aussies Malcolm and Angus?


Yeah, Malcolm was great - the absolute heart of AC/DC, their defining factor. I mean, even Bon was replaceable  Angus I was never all that impressed with as a guitarist, but obviously a great showman (clearly at least as important in terms of touring/sales/image, so I'm not knocking him for this). (Yes, I know that's an unpopular opinion...)

But I was staying in the hair-metal genre, and I got to mention my favourite guitarist of all time, Nuno. The bizarre thing I found him because I bought Pornograffitti II for my wife (then girlfriend) for the ballads, and on the way home I put the CD in the player in the car to make sure it was OK, and literally didn't get out of the car when I got home until the album had finished, having listened to it from top to bottom (apart from the ultra-terrible track 9), which as a moderate/severe ADHD person, I NEVER do - I listen to tracks, not albums. A quarter of a century ago #deadset

(Next up, my essay on why Dann Huff and Giant were the most underrated player/band of the hair-metal era


----------



## M1k3

Jesus ****ing Christ! You all make Chef Doom sound normal.

Chef Doom 2020!*






*If he ever returns.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Chef Doom for President 2020


----------



## Dhoff

ian said:


> I agree! Why the need for 3 decimal precision, though? Is that important to your point? I’ve never met anyone older than 95 myself.



Ahh this would be a difference in the way we use decimal separator. in many countries it is a "." in others it is a ","

In Denmark decimal separator is comma and the full stop is used to divide groups of numbers for easier readability.

Then again, it is actually recommended in ISO-8601 to use a space instead.

Thus I could have thought of this and instead written 100 000

Apologies.


----------



## M1k3

Bless your heart.


----------



## captaincaed

Don Nguyen said:


> What I'm saying though is that every increment of a thou is a physically intuitive and incredibly useful standard. One mm is useless for precision and one micron is too small (and apparently there's nothing in between those units...). Even 0.1mm is too large for intuitive machining operations.


My buddy manufacturers airplane parts (some precision involved). They are total pirates on units. Whatever gets the job done. They use thou. All day. It's true, it's just a nice unit. For precision machining it's just a really easy unit for talking about.

"Tolerance on this part is 3 thou." And "this table is flat to 0.2 thou" etc. Just happens to be the right size. You're (usually) talking about tolerance, not overall dimensions.

For chemistry, you measure **** in moles. How that for a unit, feckers.

Also meters are stupid as a base unit. Nothing in my life is a meter. It makes a great basis for a system, but nothing else.

Also, the moon is flat. That's how you know the photos are faked.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Promise my last post on this thread

TV and esp. the net are filled with Conspiracy shows. Keep them because we love a good conspiracy.
That means lots of views and money.
Even though have no basis in fact. 

Like inbred sheep, maladjusted monkeys.

Alex Jones spewing out loads of pure lies with no remorse social media loved him because had huge following making him and them money. 

When the lawsuits of people he defamed started coming in only then they dropped him.


----------



## Kippington

spaceconvoy said:


> But working in metric means parts are not proportional. Take a look at something as basic as screw dimensions. In the imperial system, every nut and bolt is proportional - you can copy and paste their design and simply change the scale. With metric, an M3 flathead screw has a different profile than an M4, for instance, because they're decimal based rather than fractional. That's the real strength of imperial when it comes to machining.


I'm too stupid for the imperial system.
My brain melts when people go into _"ten-thou"_. Like *'a *_*one ten-thou gap'*_ vs_ *'a ten thou gap'*_... they're the same thing to my ears, but the latter is a hundred times bigger. 


1 ten thousandths of an inch1/10000 inch0.0001 inches0.00254 mm10 thousandths of an inch10/1000 inch0.01 inches0.254 mm

So because of this, _ten-thou_ can be smaller than both _nine-thou_ and _eleven-thou_. Machinists tried simplifying it by shortening it from _"ten-thou"_ to _"tenths"_, so now there are two different ways to measure _"tenths"_ of an inch.

Thanks, I hate it.


----------



## Tim Rowland

Where is the unlike button again?


...................a Gyuto can be used for any task in the kitchen, there is no NEED for 20 different knife profiles.


----------



## ian

Dhoff said:


> Ahh this would be a difference in the way we use decimal separator. in many countries it is a "." in others it is a ","
> 
> In Denmark decimal separator is comma and the full stop is used to divide groups of numbers for easier readability.
> 
> Then again, it is actually recommended in ISO-8601 to use a space instead.
> 
> Thus I could have thought of this and instead written 100 000
> 
> Apologies.



Heh, sorry, I know. I was being intentionally obtuse in order to make a joke about the Earth being 100 yrs old. Gotta include the !


----------



## Dhoff

ian said:


> Heh, sorry, I know. I was being intentionally obtuse in order to make a joke about the Earth being 100 yrs old. Gotta include the !



I quite know, but was intentionally playing along. Had to, you understand, you might've been one of the ones who believed it to be true that earth is e.g. 2000-6000 years old and I did not want to be more aggravating in that case


----------



## Xenif

Hello Kitty handles will be all the rage in 2021


----------



## Bensbites

captaincaed said:


> My buddy manufacturers airplane parts (some precision involved). They are total pirates on units. Whatever gets the job done. They use thou. All day. It's true, it's just a nice unit. For precision machining it's just a really easy unit for talking about.
> 
> "Tolerance on this part is 3 thou." And "this table is flat to 0.2 thou" etc. Just happens to be the right size. You're (usually) talking about tolerance, not overall dimensions.
> 
> For chemistry, you measure **** in moles. How that for a unit, feckers.
> 
> Also meters are stupid as a base unit. Nothing in my life is a meter. It makes a great basis for a system, but nothing else.
> 
> Also, the moon is flat. That's how you know the photos are faked.


As a chemist... moles. Yeah. 
As units of measurements... let’s try smoot.


----------



## daveb

The horse is 8 hands tall. Convert that to metric.........


----------



## tincent

Kippington said:


> I'm too stupid for the imperial system.
> My brain melts when people go into _"ten-thou"_. Like *'a *_*one ten-thou gap'*_ vs_ *'a ten thou gap'*_... they're the same thing to my ears, but the latter is a hundred times bigger.
> 
> 
> 1 ten thousandths of an inch1/10000 inch0.0001 inches0.00254 mm10 thousandths of an inch10/1000 inch0.01 inches0.254 mm
> 
> So because of this, _ten-thou_ can be smaller than both _nine-thou_ and _eleven-thou_. Machinists tried simplifying it by shortening it from _"ten-thou"_ to _"tenths"_, so now there are two different ways to measure _"tenths"_ of an inch.
> 
> Thanks, I hate it.



Shouldnt "ten-thou" be hunds?

On topic: everyone shits on knife sets, but is fine with ten 240mm gyutos, 8 of which get cycled around BST.


----------



## danemonji

The Kramer Zwilling 51200 10 inch chef knife once thinned is just as good if not better than any of my knives. It cuts like a charm, that profile is good with pull or push cuts and its more versatile than the traditional japanese gyuto profile. The steel is very cool: shaving sharp after two weeks of use in every meal in the kitchen. Fit and finish is flawless. I like it


----------



## tkern

juice said:


> Ah, see, I thought we were talking about overall musicality, not just VROOM VROOM RAWR!!! speed!!!
> 
> (Also, I loved Vai in Yankee Rose, from DLR's short-lived supergroup
> 
> (I saw Extreme with Mr Big supporting here in Melbourne a couple of years ago - Paul was good but spent the whole set goofing off, clearly on autopilot, which was disappointing, as I really like him. Billy was utterly UTTERLY amazing, as expected, and Eric can very clearly no longer sing. OTOH, Extreme were even better than I expected, and I'd waited two decades to see them. Only disappointment was the (as expected) truncated version of Decadance Dance  I just love that opening chord...)



My roommate and I played extreme's vip tent at their concert in Boston ten years ago. Quite good. Gary would do vocals on some of my old roommate's (Rick Berlin) sometimes.
Also throwing Eric Johnson into the guitarist ring.


----------



## Don Nguyen

daveb said:


> Don,
> 
> I'm sure this will be a popular opinion - good to see you stopping by Don.
> 
> Hopefully we'll see you some more and not just in threads where everyone (except me) is loony tunes
> 
> Bless their hearts.



I browse here every now and then, I should chime in more.



Ruso said:


> I don’t get it, how come +/-0.0005" is intuitive but +/-0.001mm (1micron) for example is not?



The standard I'm describing in machining and tolerancing is that 0.001" (aka a thou) is basically a _standard._ We use it for _everything._ If I make a guard for a knife as an example and 0.200" would be a perfect press fit, 0.199" would be too tight, and 0.201" now is a slip fit. Try to do that in millimeters; you can convert it for sure, but the scale just isn't as convenient. 

We work in thou's, half thou's, and tenths of a thou because it is a common enough increment that makes a measurable difference in our operations and fitments.



captaincaed said:


> My buddy manufacturers airplane parts (some precision involved). They are total pirates on units. Whatever gets the job done. They use thou. All day. It's true, it's just a nice unit. For precision machining it's just a really easy unit for talking about.
> 
> "Tolerance on this part is 3 thou." And "this table is flat to 0.2 thou" etc. Just happens to be the right size. You're (usually) talking about tolerance, not overall dimensions.



Exactly this.



juice said:


> Because "intuitive" doesn't mean "sensible," it means "what I grew up with/learned and so I automatically think in these terms."
> 
> There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not a good defence of the *rationality *a measuring system because it's necessarily limited to people who grew up with/learned those systems initially (whatever that system is). It's especially bad when the system being rejected is decimal/linear and thus significantly easier to make sense of overall.



No, I use both metric and imperial. In materials engineering all we used was metric, and in manufacturing all we used was imperial. I'm used to both. What I've described above is exactly why imperial is more intuitive for these processes, because the increment is scaled better for the purpose.

For a thought experiment, imagine one millimeter right now, you can probably make a pinching gesture and estimate that size. It's not actually that small, and the human eye and fingers can reduce that further and still comprehend it. Or for our crowd, imagine an edge one millimeter thick; that's a ****in beefy boi. Now to do that with the next unit down, a micron, it's not really comprehendable. 

One thou is absolutely an intuitive unit for working with machines and parts.


----------



## WildBoar

I frankly don't understand the difficulty with knowing how to work with two different measurement systems.

It's like being a chef, and knowing how to cook with French techniques and with Chinese techniques. Sure, you likely only need to know one in order to get a job, but knowing both makes you a much better cooking professional. Or like knowing how to use Android and crApple devices. Or like knowing how to operate a motorcycle and a car.


----------



## Dhoff

WildBoar said:


> I frankly don't understand the difficulty with knowing how to work with two different measurement systems.
> 
> It's like being a chef, and knowing how to cook with French techniques and with Chinese techniques. Sure, you likely only need to know one in order to get a job, but knowing both makes you a much better cooking professional. Or like knowing how to use Android and crApple devices. Or like knowing how to operate a motorcycle and a car.




Well, doing calculations in an unfamilar system might be similar to asking a chef who never before cooked Thai food to do it. It might be "ok" but it will never compare to the real deal imo.

Today, I assembled a sandbox for the kids. It told me all numbers in "....

Try that with a measuring device that only has cm and mm.....

2" and 4/9". Aint going to be precise in any way....


----------



## WildBoar

dunno what to tell you. I can measure, calculate and design in both systems (have scales tape measures for both). And with respect to cooking, scales and pyrex measuring cups have both systems of units. Armed with measuring spoons. measuring cups and a scale you can pretty easily work in either set of units.

Also, I can't wrap my arms around why people in other countries get their panties in a wad about what we use here in the US. Changing the system requires a massive, massive effort and expense. It was tried once and abandoned because it was not worth it. Plenty of other countries export goods to the US that use metric measurements, fittings, etc. and we have can accommodate those goods. No big deal having two sets of wrenches/ sockets. Most people here who deal with mechanical systems can easily deal with either standard.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Now this thread has gone from unpopular to boring. Boring seems unexpectedly popular though.


----------



## WildBoar

That is a very unpopular opinion.


----------



## sidey

Unpopular opinion of my day seemed to be that the walk-in fridge door needs to be closed. 
it was 36°c out (google tells me that’s 97° for most of you) and 99% of staff think it’s alright to go in thefridge and leave the door open


----------



## soigne_west

Their obviously cooling the kitchen. It gets hit in there.


----------



## labor of love

Leaving cooler doors open is up there with sweeping someone’s feet with a broom.


----------



## simar

some are here because they have larger sharpening stone collections than knife collections


----------



## Ruso

Don Nguyen said:


> I browse here every now and then, I should chime in more.
> 
> 
> 
> The standard I'm describing in machining and tolerancing is that 0.001" (aka a thou) is basically a _standard._ We use it for _everything._ If I make a guard for a knife as an example and 0.200" would be a perfect press fit, 0.199" would be too tight, and 0.201" now is a slip fit. Try to do that in millimeters; you can convert it for sure, but the scale just isn't as convenient.
> 
> We work in thou's, half thou's, and tenths of a thou because it is a common enough increment that makes a measurable difference in our operations and fitments.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly this.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I use both metric and imperial. In materials engineering all we used was metric, and in manufacturing all we used was imperial. I'm used to both. What I've described above is exactly why imperial is more intuitive for these processes, because the increment is scaled better for the purpose.
> 
> For a thought experiment, imagine one millimeter right now, you can probably make a pinching gesture and estimate that size. It's not actually that small, and the human eye and fingers can reduce that further and still comprehend it. Or for our crowd, imagine an edge one millimeter thick; that's a ****in beefy boi. Now to do that with the next unit down, a micron, it's not really comprehendable.
> 
> One thou is absolutely an intuitive unit for working with machines and parts.



I think you are confusing intuitive with familiar.
0.001 of an inch is equally intuitive as 0.001 of a millimetre or 0.001 of a stone. Obviously, all this measurements will be different and to be frank with you I can not picture any of them. But 0.001 of something is pretty self explanatory. 

And as for your thou example, if thou would mean 0.00001 meter (10micron) for example it would as intuitive as it is now, because your machinery, plans and tolerances would be based on that measurement.

I understand that you are familiar with what you are, but it does not make it more or less intuitive.


----------



## soigne_west

labor of love said:


> Leaving cooler doors open is up there with sweeping someone’s feet with a broom.


----------



## ian

simar said:


> some are here because they have larger sharpening stone collections than knife collections



I have roughly the same number knives and stones.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

CCK 1303 is a better laser than Shibata R2/AS, Tadatsuna White2, and Takamura R2 I’ve owned...maybe better than all gyuto lasers out there.


----------



## juice

Don Nguyen said:


> The standard I'm describing in machining and tolerancing is that 0.001" (aka a thou) is basically a _standard._


Because, as explained earlier, it's what you're used to. And for no other reason than that, as multiple posters have said. "Familiarity because I grew up with it" and "only possible system/_standard_" are not the same thing.


----------



## iimi

juice said:


> Because, as explained earlier, it's what you're used to. And for no other reason than that, as multiple posters have said. "Familiarity because I grew up with it" and "only possible system/_standard_" are not the same thing.


I know of at least a few machinists and engineers in Korea who work with imperial as well as metric because, as Don says, it's a lot easier to say something is a thou off than it is to say .0254 mil off, or even saying .03 mil off. His point is that thou is convenient to work with for tolerances because most things will be in single digits, or at most double digits, when measured in thou.


----------



## McMan

We count our money with the metric system


----------



## juice

Carl Kotte said:


> Now this thread has gone from unpopular to boring. Boring seems unexpectedly popular though.


Beige FTW!


----------



## Matus

Corradobrit1 said:


> Americans need to stop using imperial weights and measures. Its the 21st Century guys and only the US, Liberia and Myanmar never got the email.



I wish that was true. It is beyond me why wheel (rim) sizes are in inches, but tire sizes are in millimeters... both in Europe and US.


----------



## Matus

Don Nguyen said:


> What I'm saying though is that every increment of a thou is a physically intuitive and incredibly useful standard. One mm is useless for precision and one micron is too small (and apparently there's nothing in between those units...). Even 0.1mm is too large for intuitive machining operations.



It is quite a while ago when 1 micrometer was too small in cutting edge engineering. And those more mundane technical fields work perfectly fine numbers like 10 micrometers. To me it makes more sense to talk about numbers large than 1 in given unit, rather than 0.000000something.


----------



## captaincaed

Matus said:


> I wish that was true. It is beyond me why wheel (rim) sizes are in inches, but tire sizes are in millimeters... both in Europe and US.


I cannot understand why a 700mm bike wheel is actually 622mm at the rim. For some dumb reason 700 is supposed to be the edge of the tire. But tires come in different sizes...
Get it together people


----------



## Barmoley

captaincaed said:


> I cannot understand why a 700mm bike wheel is actually 622mm at the rim. For some dumb reason 700 is supposed to be the edge of the tire. But tires come in different sizes...
> Get it together people


What about the blade length of a 240 mm gyuto? Can be anything from 220 mm to 255 mm....


----------



## daveb

simar said:


> some are here because they have larger sharpening stone collections than knife collections



I already had to clean up one thread for bashing our Euro friends - let's not have another.


----------



## daveb

Barmoley said:


> What about the blade length of a 240 mm gyuto? Can be anything from 220 mm to 255 mm....



A couple thou more or less.......


----------



## Tim Rowland

Could somebody please start a metric vs. imperial thread ?

.......McDonald's chicken nuggets are made of liquefied mystery meat and ground up jock straps.


----------



## spaceconvoy

but like the kids on that Jamie Oliver video, I still get a craving for them sometimes (the nuggets, not the kids)


----------



## labor of love

Tim Rowland said:


> Could somebody please start a metric vs. imperial thread ?
> 
> .......McDonald's chicken nuggets are made of liquefied mystery meat and ground up jock straps.


The year is 2020 and people still eat at MacDonalds. Let that sink in.


----------



## ian

labor of love said:


> The year is 2020 and people still eat at MacDonalds. Let that sink in.



Omg, we went to McDonalds while driving to a vacation house this week. I haven’t eaten fast food in like a decade, and it was *the best thing ever in the entire world. *If we’d had a car accident and died after I finished my milkshake and fries, I woulda been ok with that.


----------



## ian

If I drill a hole that’s slightly out of tolerance for the pin that’s gonna go in it, do I get to call it “holier than thou”?


----------



## labor of love

ian said:


> Omg, we went to McDonalds while driving to a vacation house this week. I haven’t eaten fast food in like a decade, and it was *the best thing ever in the entire world. *If we’d had a car accident and died after I finished my milkshake and fries, I woulda been ok with that.


----------



## ian

Soon, your memes are going to be zoomed into a single pixel in the dog’s eye. (Cuz I never gonna stop never stopping.)


----------



## spaceconvoy

labor of love said:


> The year is 2020 and people still eat at MacDonalds. Let that sink in.








what does it want?

It's 2020 and McDonald's in still delicious. My taste buds still enjoy it even though my body no longer does


----------



## labor of love

Maybe the idea that MacDonalds taste like butthole IS an unpopular opinion.


----------



## BillHanna

labor of love said:


> MacDonalds taste like butthole


No kink shaming please. /s


----------



## juice

labor of love said:


> Maybe the idea that MacDonalds taste like butthole IS an unpopular opinion.


Lots of fats and carbs. Terrible for you, that combination, but it's hyper-palatable, for sure.


----------



## tchan001

ian said:


> Omg, we went to McDonalds while driving to a vacation house this week. I haven’t eaten fast food in like a decade, and it was *the best thing ever in the entire world. *If we’d had a car accident and died after I finished my milkshake and fries, I woulda been ok with that.


Sounds like you wouldn't mind trading your knives for McDonald's meals


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> The year is 2020 and people still eat at MacDonalds. Let that sink in.


i love big macs, sue me


----------



## panda

ian said:


> Omg, we went to McDonalds while driving to a vacation house this week. I haven’t eaten fast food in like a decade, and it was *the best thing ever in the entire world. *If we’d had a car accident and died after I finished my milkshake and fries, I woulda been ok with that.


u gotta try wendys fries dipped in vanilla frosty


----------



## soigne_west

Fish fillet, FTW


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> i love big macs, sue me


Just a meat flavored bread sandwich.


----------



## daveb

Steak and Shake now offers a Pork Belly "Burger". Doesn't suck.


----------



## ian

Omg, carbs are so good! I want all these burgers and fries. And I want lots of alcohol too! Carbs forever. The taste, the energy, the amazing flavors.... YES!!


----------



## soigne_west

Honestly I’ve been keto for over a year and don’t miss any of this crap.


----------



## ian

soigne_west said:


> Honestly I’ve been keto for over a year and don’t miss any of this crap.



Dammit, I’m trying to kick @labor of love off the wagon. This isn’t helping.


----------



## labor of love

soigne_west said:


> Honestly I’ve been keto for over a year and don’t miss any of this crap.


I’m a month into keto...MacDonalds discussion is quite triggering lol.

Probably switching to Paleo soon though.


----------



## juice

soigne_west said:


> Honestly I’ve been keto for over a year and don’t miss any of this crap.


Two years, in, same. No need for "substitutes" or the like, either.



ian said:


> Dammit, I’m trying to kick @labor of love off the wagon. This isn’t helping.






labor of love said:


> I’m a month into keto...MacDonalds discussion is quite triggering lol.


Yeah, a month in? It would be 



labor of love said:


> Probably switch to Paleo soon though.


One of the real keys seems to be avoiding eating fats and carbs together, it seems. Nothing like as bad to eat carbs if not combining it with fat. (Of course, it's gonna taste like butthole (KKF official food description) but still...)


----------



## soigne_west

labor of love said:


> I’m a month into keto...MacDonalds discussion is quite triggering lol.
> 
> Probably switching to Paleo soon though.



You’re about at the point when for me the cravings and bad breath stopped. I’d power through. I have only lost around 25lbs total but gosh, almost every aspect of my life is better. Sleep, anxiety, clarity etc...I almost live on Double double protein style’s though...


----------



## soigne_west

Also this diet works well in pro kitchens. Eat all the bacon and cheese and veggies. Use your carb allotment for tasting...


----------



## labor of love

I never have had much of a sweet tooth...That being said going sugar free was pretty painful. Stevia is fine now(no for real it’s not bad).
No matter what I decide to do I’ll steer clear of processed sugar. Although the nutritional density of grapefruit and berries has me wondering long term if I should sparingly eat low glycemic fruits. Especially as a pre workout. 
Raisins put a certain pep in my step for the gym that has been missed.


----------



## juice

labor of love said:


> Although the nutritional density of grapefruit and berries has me wondering long term if I should sparingly eat low glycemic fruits.


Yeah, modern-day fruit is a sugar bomb, although eating them whole is VASTLY preferable to stripping out/shearing the fibre when making them into smoothies. (I suspect this is the most on-topic I've ever been...)


----------



## labor of love

soigne_west said:


> You’re about at the point when for me the cravings and bad breath stopped. I’d power through. I have only lost around 25lbs total but gosh, almost every aspect of my life is better. Sleep, anxiety, clarity etc...I almost live on Double double protein style’s though...


Bad breath? Lol. I quit smoking the same time I started keto, I can smell all sorts of new gross things. If a co worker smoked a cig 5 mins ago I can still smell it on them, I’m like a hound dog.
Don’t really miss bread. Wouldn’t mind some brown rice every once in a while.
Also, perfected my roasted garlic cauliflower mash.


----------



## soigne_west

I got super bad breath when I first started.


----------



## labor of love

Kale, Brussels, broccolini, asparagus or spinach every meal w a protein w a fat (usually avocado).
Nuts also if not completely satiated.
Cucumber lime water or iced ginger tea. 
Eggs for breakfast.
That’s where I’m at.


----------



## ian

soigne_west said:


> I got super bad breath when I first started.



I think I've seen you on instagram or something. You certainly have changed since you took your kkf profile pic. I'm gonna have to start on a keto diet now. Wow!


----------



## labor of love

At first I lost 20lbs, then I realized I was dehydrated. Starting drinking more fluids and sole water. Then gained back about 6 pounds of water weight. 
Bummer.


----------



## ian

labor of love said:


> Kale, Brussels, broccolini, asparagus or spinach every meal w a protein w a fat (usually avocado).
> Nuts also if not completely satiated.
> Cucumber lime water or iced ginger tea.
> Eggs for breakfast.
> That’s where I’m at.



That's crazy discipline. I'm kinda inspired but my wife would have no patience for this.


----------



## labor of love

ian said:


> That's crazy discipline. I'm kinda inspired but my wife would have no patience for this.


I only had the patience because I was unemployed for 3 weeks and tried to instill some boot camp on my daily routine. 
Maybe it will all be worth it. One day at a time.


----------



## juice

labor of love said:


> Don’t really miss bread.


Every so often I miss really dense seed bread with natural peanut butter and banana. But that's the only time, and it's rare.



labor of love said:


> Also, perfected my roasted garlic cauliflower mash.


Yeah, even my wife, who was the BIGGEST mashed potato junkie ever, loves it.



soigne_west said:


> I got super bad breath when I first started.


So did my wife  Small price to pay, though, as it goes away (generally).



labor of love said:


> At first I lost 20lbs, then I realized I was dehydrated. Starting drinking more fluids and sole water. Then gained back about 6 pounds of water weight.
> Bummer.



Yeah, fluid intake needs to be monitored pretty carefully, and sodium/electrolyte intake likewise (you need a fair bit more salt on low-carb, as you lose the massive amounts of salt that highly-processed carbs usually contain). Not difficult to sort out, though.



ian said:


> That's crazy discipline. I'm kinda inspired but my wife would have no patience for this.



It doesn't need to be that strict, and after a while you learn what works and what doesn't, where you can let the rope out a bit, and so on. It's certainly a new rabbit hole to go down if you like, but you don't have to, although I suspect most people in here would indeed dive down it


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> Kale, Brussels, broccolini, asparagus or spinach every meal w a protein w a fat (usually avocado).
> Nuts also if not completely satiated.
> Cucumber lime water or iced ginger tea.
> Eggs for breakfast.
> That’s where I’m at.


this sounds so painful


----------



## soigne_west

I miss croissants


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> this sounds so painful


About to make Keto Ramen for dinner. Just for you.


----------



## labor of love

soigne_west said:


> I miss croissants


A minute on the lips, a lifetime on the hips.


----------



## ian

labor of love said:


> About to make Keto Ramen for dinner. Just for you.



enjoy your zucchini noodles.


----------



## soigne_west

labor of love said:


> About to make Keto Ramen for dinner. Just for you.



I’ll freakin drive to Louisiana right now...


----------



## Kippington

juice said:


> ...although I suspect most people in here would indeed dive down it


----------



## juice

ian said:


> enjoy your zucchini noodles.


We had zucchini lasagne the other night. I still content cabbage lasagne is better.


----------



## soigne_west

ian said:


> enjoy your zucchini noodles.



There called zoodles, have some class.


----------



## daveb

juice said:


> Yeah, modern-day fruit is a sugar bomb, although eating them whole is VASTLY preferable to stripping out/shearing the fibre when making them into smoothies. (I suspect this is the most on-topic I've ever been...)



User name does not check out!


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> About to make Keto Ramen for dinner. Just for you.


I'm cool with it. I love soup. make it Sapporo style spicy miso plz


----------



## juice

soigne_west said:


> There called zoodles, have some class.


LOL



daveb said:


> User name does not check out!


IKR? OTOH, it's about two decades older than low-carb, and it's a shortened nickname. That's my defence


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> I'm cool with it. I love soup. make it Sapporo style spicy miso plz


Sapporo? What part of this diet do you not understand?


----------



## juice

soigne_west said:


> There called zoodles, have some class.


My wife just popped up and asked: "Have they had doodles[1]?"

[1] Daikon noodles


----------



## WildBoar

juice said:


> IKR? OTOH, it's about two decades older than low-carb, and it's a shortened nickname. That's my defence


I just figured you were one of those select few who are extra excited about the new Ford Bronco release.


----------



## juice

WildBoar said:


> I just figured you were one of those select few who are extra excited about the new Ford Bronco release.


Nah, it's way too slow, and I don't like white.


----------



## labor of love

WildBoar said:


> I just figured you were one of those select few who are extra excited about the new Ford Bronco release.


I was into it at first. Then I remembered I drive on roads.


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> Bad breath? Lol. I quit smoking the same time I started keto, I can smell all sorts of new gross things. If a co worker smoked a cig 5 mins ago I can still smell it on them, I’m like a hound dog.
> Don’t really miss bread. Wouldn’t mind some brown rice every once in a while.
> Also, perfected my roasted garlic cauliflower mash.


I've been doing a ketoish diet also. A little keto cheato. But I've been cutting out the carbs. I miss bread. Especially, butter toast with eggs of any kind. And I also miss Dark &Stormys.


----------



## labor of love

Jville said:


> I've been doing a ketoish diet also. A little keto cheato.  But I've been cutting out the carbs. I miss bread. Especially, butter toast with eggs of any kind. And I also miss Dark &Stormys.


Can’t half azz it. Gotta go sub 20grams of carbs a day to hit ketosis. I guess chronic diarrhea means I hit ketosis 3 weeks ago.


----------



## soigne_west

Keto cheating although better did not work for me. Full on cut sugar and carbs or else the cravings get bad. Starve those enzymes of the stuff there used to and eventually they'll shut up.


----------



## TSF415

What I'm confused about these days is impossible meats. McDonalds has been serving something that tastes like meat but isn't actually meat. And now people are eating fake meat thinking they are making a healthier choice.


----------



## soigne_west

TSF415 said:


> What I'm confused about these days is impossible meats. McDonalds has serving something that tastes like meat but isn't actually meat. And now people are eating fake meat thinking they are making a healthier choice.



Uncooked they literally smell like a can of paint thinner farted on a rotten pile of vegetables.


----------



## juice

TSF415 said:


> What I'm confused about these days is impossible meats. McDonalds has been serving something that tastes like meat but isn't actually meat. And now people are eating fake meat thinking they are making a healthier choice.


Yeah, one of the ideas for low-carb is to be eating real/whole foods, not highly-processed crap with an ingredients list as long as your arm.



soigne_west said:


> Uncooked they literally smell like a can of paint thinner farted on a rotten pile of vegetables.


You could be in marketing!


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> Lots of fats and carbs. Terrible for you, that combination, but it's hyper-palatable, for sure.


Don't forget the salt and acid!


labor of love said:


> I’m a month into keto...MacDonalds discussion is quite triggering lol.
> 
> Probably switching to Paleo soon though.


As a dietician once told me, "eat some carbs, b***h"


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> Don't forget the salt and acid!


Yeah, it all adds up to EAT MOAR, for sure.



M1k3 said:


> As a dietician once told me, "eat some carbs, b***h"


Yeah, well, looking around, I'm not so sure that traditional (by which we mean "the last 50 years of our entire human history") dietary advice is all that great for us, ya know?


----------



## TSF415

juice said:


> Yeah, one of the ideas for low-carb is to be eating real/whole foods, not highly-processed crap with an ingredients list as long as your arm.
> 
> 
> You could be in marketing!



The concept of eating whole foods should go well beyond just an idea related to a low carb diet.


----------



## juice

TSF415 said:


> The concept of eating whole foods should go well beyond just an idea related to a low carb diet.


Absolutely, I wasn't saying that was the only way to do it, but you'd be surprised (maybe) at how many people are looking to go "low-carb" while still eating garbage. "Stop eating all that processed crap" is the best thing you can do for your diet, along with stopping eating sugar (and sugar precursors) and seed oils (PUFAs). "Eat around the edges of the supermarket" as they say.


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> Yeah, well, looking around, I'm not so sure that traditional (by which we mean "the last 50 years of our entire human history") dietary advice is all that great for us, ya know?


Got it. Turn the food pyramid sideways until desert is on bottom.


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> Got it. Turn the food pyramid sideways until desert is on bottom.


It's pretty easy once you understand it!


----------



## Matus

I think that - on a forum that is so intimately connected to cooking - not banning people who like McDonalds tells a lot about our inclusivity.


----------



## Michi

Taz575 said:


> My mom knocked a 240mm K tip gyuto off of a cabinet and broke the tip off, so I made it into a 210mm Nakiri! Making lemonade out of lemons!


I've said it all along! 

Great job, it really looks good!


----------



## Tim Rowland

Oh for F*%&$ sake!
Now could somebody please start a damn diet trend thread.
Every time I try to get this thread back on track you guys go 4 pages deep on a tangent.

..........................back to unpopular opinions.

Spending more time polishing, petting, caressing, and staring at your knives is stupid.
They are tools so use them.


----------



## juice

Tim Rowland said:


> Oh for F*%&$ sake!
> Now could somebody please start a damn diet trend thread.
> Every time I try to get this thread back on track you guys go 4 pages deep on a tangent.


Sounds to me like it was pretty unpopular...


----------



## daveb

Tim Rowland said:


> Every time I try to get this thread back on track you guys go 4 pages deep on a tangent.



Welcome to the forum!


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> Sapporo? What part of this diet do you not understand?


not the beer,


----------



## panda

Tim Rowland said:


> Oh for F*%&$ sake!
> Now could somebody please start a damn diet trend thread.
> Every time I try to get this thread back on track you guys go 4 pages deep on a tangent.
> 
> ..........................back to unpopular opinions.
> 
> Spending more time polishing, petting, caressing, and staring at your knives is stupid.
> They are tools so use them.


this gonna trigger half of kkf, hahahaha


----------



## Taz575

I haven't read the post in a few days, been too busy at work!

On the Moon topic, isn't the Moon made out of cheese?  how do we land on cheese? Do we jump from the flat earth? 

Keto Breath sucks, mine smelled like rotten cauliflower farted in my mouth, but it went away quickly.

I have been cheating off and on the past few weeks. McDonalds, Chinese food, cookies, chips, etc. My excuse is my fiance started Keto this week, so I have been eating all of the "bad" foods in the house so she wouldn't be tempted. Not sure how I justified 4 candy bars in 1 day though since I went out and bought those! oops!  I don't count carbs/calories anymore, but I have been snacking more on keto stuff, so I am probably around 40 grams of carbs a day and 2500 calories roughly and seem to be maintaining my weight. Dirty keto seems to work for me to maintain and if I cheat for a day or meal, I don't get violently sick.

I do Keto sweets all of the time using Erythritol or however you spell it. Keto cheesecakes, cookies (snickerdoodles, ginger, chocolate chip using Lily no sugar chips with stevia, with almond flour), cakes, no bake cheesecake type stuff, etc. Polar Ice drinks or Coke zero when I want a soft drink. I use the Skinny Mix drink mixes to flavor water. Yeah, they have sucralose and other chemical sugars, but they don't seem to bother me with maintaining weight, giving me sugar cravings or anything like that. 

I have good recipes for Keto Lasagna using zucchini in sheets or cabbage leaves, killer seafood lasagna, baked cauliflower ziti, good tortilla recipes to do soft tacos, etc. I do a lot with cheese sauces, which I love. I have a recipe for a killer General Tso type sauce that is great on chicken, shrimp, salmon, etc. Good Honey Mustard sauces with erythritol.

My typical meal is skip breakfast, salad (3-4oz greens, 2oz protein, 1/2oz cheese, 1oz pickles, 1 oz olives and 2T salad dressing) for lunch. Dinner is 8-12oz protein, 10-16oz veggies roughly (brocolli, zucchini, cauliflower, cabbage, rutabaga, turnips, celeriac usually) and usually a cheese sauce or general tso sauce or just spices. I have been doing a lot of casseroles lately and cauliflower crust pizzas. Grilled food is great, too. I eat almonds, pistashios and pork rinds for snacks. I found popcorn flavor powders work great to flavor pork rinds or nuts to give them a different taste so they don't get boring. 

I started Keto in Oct 2018 when I weighed 360#. 54 weeks later, I was down to 200#. Since Oct 2019, I haven't been tracking foods and usually try not to cheat on the diet, but do have cheat meals occasionally. Last time I got weighed a couple months ago, I was around 215-220# or so, and have been at that weight for several months. 

Unpopular opinion: Cheap knives can often perform almost the same as a knife costing several times more


----------



## TSF415

Artificial sweeteners are horrible. If you are willing to sacrifice your health to maintain your weight, I suggest cocaine. Its a whole lot more fun and probably has less side effects than a diet soda.


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> Can’t half azz it. Gotta go sub 20grams of carbs a day to hit ketosis. I guess chronic diarrhea means I hit ketosis 3 weeks ago.


I have been going under 20 a day. But I've had a couple of times I didn't. But I can tell it's making a big difference. I'm not craving carbs and sugar like I was. It was getting bad for me. With working so much I found myself just grabbing whatever and definetely craving lots of sweets. Plus, I have always had a sweet tooth. I'm also ok with dropping weight gradually, which I've been doing.


----------



## iimi

Honestly, the healthier approach if you have time is to eat a normal balanced diet and work out. Losing weight is a simple equation of calories in, calories out. Keto itself doesn't lose more weight, but people do eat a lot less calories when they limit their diet to keto. But I can't give up my Dos or Shiner or Cabs or scotches, so I'd rather just work out and float around 12-16% body fat. Heck, I'm trying to put on muscle mass right now, trying to get above 170.


----------



## Taz575

Yeah, I try not to do the fake sugars in soft drinks, but it's nice to have available. I usually drink around 80-120oz of water a day. The diet sodas and water flavoring syrups are a nice break from plain water all of the time, but I try to stay with the more natural sugars for my sweets. Fiance is starting Keto and is used to regular soda, so I am trying to find things to ween her off of the sweets to make it an easier transition.

If I cheat, I gotta focus the next several days to get back into ketosis and ignore the sugar cravings! Everyone is different; some can maintain ketosis with more carbs than others can. 20 is recommended, but if you are at 25 or 30 for a day or two here or there, it won't really effect you much, especially if you've been strict for over 6 weeks since it takes the body around 6 weeks to fully turn over to burning fat for energy. I found if I stalled weight loss wise, I would go up to around 30-35 carbs and then back down the next day and I would start losing weight again. I was very strict for the first 9 months of Keto and was losing an ave of 4# a week from October 2018 to Aug 2019. Since Aug 2019, I am doing more of a dirty keto, but not tracking carb/calorie/macro stuff, much more enjoyable long term.

The diarrhea usually doesn't last (Keto Woosh!). If it does, you may be allergic/sensitive to something. I found out I was allergic to Sesame Oil, gave me the runs bad. Zylitol and Allulose give me the runs bad, but if I introduce Zylitol in small amounts over a week or so and build up, I build up a tolerance and don't have issues with it for a while. I know I am bad with Sorbitol, too. 

Keto balanced out my GI issues I used to have a lot of, plus it lowered my weight a lot and lowered my cholesterol, blood pressure and heart rate. My fiance has chronic inflammation issues, which keto is supposed to help out with. We will probably do a more balanced Keto with less fat content and more balanced overall and see how that goes for long term once she hits her weight goal.


----------



## Lars

TSF415 said:


> Artificial sweeteners are horrible. If you are willing to sacrifice your health to maintain your weight, I suggest cocaine. Its a whole lot more fun and probably has less side effects than a diet soda.


You can sub for amphetamine if on a budget.


----------



## Ruso

TSF415 said:


> Artificial sweeteners are horrible. If you are willing to sacrifice your health to maintain your weight, I suggest cocaine. Its a whole lot more fun and probably has less side effects than a diet soda.


Only if consumed as green leafs in salad. 

Double double with cocaine sounds fun though.


----------



## Byphy

Prime Bird more skilled than Prime Bron


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Haven't been to Macdonalds in two decades. Take out at outlets these days lines are long. Liked Whoppers better flame broiled lettuce, tomato, pickles.

Working in a kitchen for me hard to keep pounds off. Now no problem as buy all our food mostly fresh. Also have a garden . Staying away from food with lots of salt & sugar. Protein seafood.


----------



## parbaked

TSF415 said:


> If you are willing to sacrifice your health to maintain your weight, I suggest cocaine.



cocaine > keto
1. lose weight
2. can still drink booze
3. maybe diarrhea, but no bad breath


----------



## bahamaroot

Metric to Keto, Jesus someone please just stab me in the neck! But don't chip your knife....


----------



## WildBoar

Keto is the diet for people who can only do calcs in the metric system


----------



## panda

diets are stupid


----------



## Ryndunk

Remember when ketosis was a medical condition that should be avoided. Ask almost nutritionist, I bet they will tell you it still is.


----------



## Rangen

Ryndunk said:


> Remember when ketosis was a medical condition that should be avoided. Ask almost nutritionist, I bet they will tell you it still is.



Are you sure you're not confusing it with ketoacidosis?


----------



## tkern

Sarah Michelle Geller was the most influential actor of the 90's.


----------



## juice

Ryndunk said:


> Remember when ketosis was a medical condition that should be avoided. Ask almost nutritionist, I bet they will tell you it still is.


No, it never was. Although nutritionists will tell you a lot of rubbish, agreed.



Rangen said:


> Are you sure you're not confusing it with ketoacidosis?


This.


----------



## Ryndunk

Maybe I am confused


----------



## juice

Ryndunk said:


> Maybe I am confused


Aren't most of us?


----------



## parbaked

Ryndunk said:


> Maybe I am confused


If you think that's an unpopular opinion, then you probably don't think you're confused...


----------



## kennyc

Here's mine: Shuns are priced very fairly for the performance and after-sales support you receive


----------



## parbaked

Shun knife are marketed to folk you need the manufacture to fix their knife after they screw it up...


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Hip Hop, Rap music and fashion 40 years and still going strong. 

Making it a major American cultural tradition.


----------



## kennyc

parbaked said:


> Shun knife are marketed to folk you need the manufacture to fix their knife after they screw it up...


But exactly! Show me any other Japanese kitchen knife maker that will resolve even user error issues. I think shun is responsible for more Japanese kitchen knife adoption in North America then all the other brands combined


----------



## kennyc

And on a slightly related note, Kai/Kershaw has provided the best customer service I've ever received from any company in any industry


----------



## Jville

kennyc said:


> But exactly! Show me any other Japanese kitchen knife maker that will resolve even user error issues. I think shun is responsible for more Japanese kitchen knife adoption in North America then all the other brands combined


They prey upon the uneducated knife user. That's why their customer base is basically newbs to japanese knives. That's why they have people complaining about their shun knife chipping after they attempted to cut a chicken bone, actual review.


----------



## ian

My Shun paring knife sucks at carving wood. Screw Shun. You could buy a better wood carving knife for $15.


----------



## daveb

Shun Shun


----------



## Byphy

Edge retention is overrated. That thing going on BST after 1 onion.


----------



## M1k3

Mercer actually makes something decent


----------



## tchan001

Shun'd. Actually I've never bought one of those before. Was too expensive looking when I was using bargain basement knives. Was too cheap looking when I started buying lovelies from BST.


----------



## Vionlad

Rangen said:


> Fake umlauts mean real quality.
> 
> To keep things on topic, what knife would you use to vertically bisect a hard-frozen pint of Haagen-Dazs (sorry for the lack of the traditional Brooklyn umlaut)? Seriously frozen, I mean. Think chest freezer. I'd go for my heaviest Chinese cleaver at 680g.


The one I put in hot water for a second.


----------



## YumYumSauce

Cooks who brag about how razor sharp their knife is rock dull shuns.


----------



## BillHanna

coffee is terrible


----------



## Lars

BillHanna said:


> Bad coffee is terrible


Fixed.


----------



## daddy yo yo

BillHanna said:


> coffee is terrible


only with sugar!


----------



## BillHanna

I've tried to like it. Worse even; any additive just makes it's taste more gross.


----------



## juice

BillHanna said:


> coffee is terrible





BillHanna said:


> I've tried to like it. Worse even; any additive just makes it's taste more gross.


Just the smell edges me towards wanting to throw up. Which is terrible when you live in Melbourne, the real coffee capital of the world...


----------



## pleue

Chelsea miller's knife making skills are far more impressive than 99% of kkf members' knife using skills.


----------



## simar

juice said:


> Just the smell edges me towards wanting to throw up. Which is terrible when you live in Melbourne, the real coffee capital of the world...


I don’t care much for the smell of coffee, but smell of dried up coffee cups is nosebleed inducing


----------



## juice

simar said:


> I don’t care much for the smell of coffee, but smell of dried up coffee cups is nosebleed inducing


SO MUCH.

Also, stale beer...


----------



## Lars

juice said:


> Which is terrible when you live in Melbourne, the real coffee capital of the world...


Interresting! I’ve never tried a coffee grown in australia..


----------



## juice

Lars said:


> Interresting! I’ve never tried a coffee grown in australia..


That's not really how it works, but maybe the heatwave is giving you issues? Hmmm? Yes. let's blame that!


----------



## Corradobrit1

BillHanna said:


> *Starsux* coffee is terrible


FIFY


----------



## juice

Corradobrit1 said:


> FIFY


Well, except it's not legally coffee anywhere but the US, one suspects...


----------



## Corradobrit1

juice said:


> SO MUCH.
> 
> Also, stale beer...


Stale ashtrays


----------



## Corradobrit1

juice said:


> Well, except it's not legally coffee anywhere but the US, one suspects...


Doesn't matter where you go. All Starsux coffee sucks. They roast it to within an inch of its life killing any subtle flavor notes in the process


----------



## Lars

juice said:


> That's not really how it works, but maybe the heatwave is giving you issues? Hmmm? Yes. let's blame that!


Please don’t patronise me. It makes you look bad.


----------



## Twigg

Corradobrit1 said:


> Doesn't matter where you go. All Starsux coffee sucks. They roast it to within an inch of its life killing any subtle flavor notes in the process


You can make their coffee at home. Just take whatever coffee brand you have, brew it and leave it on the burner/heater all day. Once it gets that lovely concentrated burnt flavor you'll know you hit gold! You cant tell it from the real thing


----------



## juice

Lars said:


> Please don’t patronise me. It makes you look bad.


It's a joke, joyce.


----------



## parbaked

British people know nothing about coffee...


----------



## simar

parbaked said:


> British people know nothing about coffee...


Mr. Hoffmann knows a bit though and makes entertaining videos about it


----------



## Corradobrit1

parbaked said:


> British people know nothing about coffee...


Except the ones who lived in Italy for 5 years


----------



## Lars

parbaked said:


> British people know nothing about coffee...


Just ask Gwilym Davies and James Hoffmann..


----------



## spaceconvoy

People who are really into coffee are even more tedious than knife nuts

*edit: but slightly less tedious than craft beer people


----------



## Lars

juice said:


> It's a joke, joyce.


Not my fault your not funny :d
Who’s joyce?


----------



## simar

spaceconvoy said:


> People who are really into coffee are even more tedious than knife nuts


tea people are the antithesis of coffee people


----------



## Lars

simar said:


> tea people are the antithesis of coffee people


Of all people..!


----------



## Corradobrit1

simar said:


> tea people are the antithesis of coffee people


I'm English, and like both. I feel so conflicted


----------



## Lars

Corradobrit1 said:


> I'm English, and like both. I feel so conflicted


I can brew you a cup of coffee so tasty you will never go back ;-)


----------



## captaincaed

parbaked said:


> British people know nothing about coffee...


Nor tea.


----------



## Byphy

pleue said:


> Chelsea miller's knife making skills are far more impressive than 99% of kkf members' knife using skills.



Deeeeeeem shots fired!


----------



## simar

captaincaed said:


> Nor tea.


They knew enough to do some shady things to get plants and plant them in Darjeeling.


----------



## Corradobrit1

captaincaed said:


> Nor tea.


Next you'll be telling us we know nothing about beer and footy as well.

Yanks are the last to be throwing stones in a tea shop. Just look at the selection in the supermarkets. Liptons FFS
I have to import mine from the UK to get a decent cuppa


----------



## captaincaed

Corradobrit1 said:


> Next you'll be telling us we know nothing about beer and footy as well


Porter and footsy? No thanks. Bring me IPA and gladatorial hand-egg and be quick about it


----------



## simar

Corradobrit1 said:


> I'm English, and like both. I feel so conflicted


Hopefully when you get out of therapy you can tell us how you resolved this conflict


----------



## spaceconvoy

Russians do coffee, tea, and food much better than the British. The one they do well is beer, I'll give them that.


----------



## parbaked

spaceconvoy said:


> Russians do coffee, tea, and food much better than the British. The one they do well is *warm, flat *beer, I'll give them that.


Fixed that for you...


----------



## parbaked

sausage pizza > pepperoni pizza


----------



## daveb

spaceconvoy said:


> Russians do coffee, tea, and food much better than the British. The one they do well is beer, I'll give them that.



Enough vodka and a turd will taste good.


----------



## daveb

Starbucks, The coffee sucks, the service sucks but the price is real high....


----------



## Lars

Damnit, I like our fora a lot!


----------



## spaceconvoy

daveb said:


> Enough vodka and a turd will taste good.


yeah, I should have worded it more like "_even_ Russians do..." but you'd be surprised how good salmon topped with cheese can be  not even kidding. But like the British, their best food is adopted from other countries - in their case, Georgia and the Ukraine


----------



## BillHanna

spaceconvoy said:


> yeah, I should have worded it more like "_even_ Russians do..." but you'd be surprised how good salmon topped with cheese can be  not even kidding. But like the British, their best food is adopted from other countries - in their case, Georgia and the Ukraine


I am old. Every time I see Russia, I'm actually thinking USSR. Like seeing a former friend who forgot you divorced Lisa.


----------



## Garm

Corradobrit1 said:


> I'm English, and like both. I feel so conflicted


Just embrace this new dawn of multicultural lavishness. Both are needed for a full, well rounded day, at least for me.


----------



## ma_sha1

All kitchen knives can be made from a Chinese Cleaver by DIY, the reverse is not true.


----------



## ian

Corradobrit1 said:


> Except the ones who lived in Italy for 5 years



Italians know nothing about coffee.


----------



## Corradobrit1

ian said:


> Italians know nothing about coffee.




Like they nothing about pizza or fashion


----------



## M1k3

Corradobrit1 said:


> Yanks are the last to be throwing stones in a tea shop. Just look at the selection in the supermarkets. Liptons FFS
> I have to import mine from the UK to get a decent cuppa


We throw tea in the harbor, thank you very much! Maybe if you won you wouldn't need to import it?


----------



## parbaked

Corradobrit1 said:


> Except the ones who lived in Italy for 5 years


And you didn't figure out that espresso drinks are made with dark roast coffee...like I said, Brits should stick to their cuppa...


----------



## spaceconvoy

it's true actually (about the coffee, not pizza/fashion)... Italians know espresso, but they don't understand coffee. They think you can just combine espresso and hot water, but Americanos are undrinkable swill. I'm not sure anyone seriously drinks them, and suspect they're more of a joke at the expense of Americans. Either way, it's not possible to get a proper cup of coffee in Italy.


----------



## ptolemy

I am a bad late to the party, but what's with the obsession to know exactly how long and wide the knife is? Does it really matter if it's 239mm or 241mm or 54mm or 56mm tall? Really?


----------



## Corradobrit1

parbaked said:


> And you didn't figure out that espresso drinks are made with dark roast coffee...like I said, Brits should stick to their cuppa...


There's a difference between dark roast and carbonized. And real Italian coffee beans are not roasted that dark. Look at Illy and Lavazza beans.


----------



## Corradobrit1

spaceconvoy said:


> it's true actually (about the coffee, not pizza/fashion)... Italians know espresso, but they don't understand coffee. They think you can just combine espresso and hot water, but Americanos are undrinkable swill. I'm not sure anyone seriously drinks them, and suspect they're more of a joke at the expense of Americans. Either way, it's not possible to get a proper cup of coffee in Italy.


I guess you're talking about home brewed coffee using a traditional Bialetti. And I agree that sux. But proper espresso made on a La Marzocco is heaven. Heck even the Brits can make machines that are world beaters. Here's mine


----------



## labor of love

I didn’t even know Starbucks sucked until today...I really like Starbucks.  
But admittedly I like dark roast borderline burnt ass coffee.


----------



## spaceconvoy

yes, I'd argue that coffee ≠ espresso, the same way bacon ≠ pancetta though it's made of the same thing


----------



## Corradobrit1

spaceconvoy said:


> yes, I'd argue that coffee ≠ espresso, the same way bacon ≠ pancetta though it's made of the same thing


I'd argue the major differentiator is the way the coffee is extracted. ie contact time with hot water, water pressure and accuracy of temp control. I'd also argue they totally understand the science of coffee.


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> I'd argue the major differentiator is the way the coffee is extracted. ie contact time with hot water, water pressure and accuracy of temp control


Wrong forum. Or rather, start a thread. I’d like to lurk and learn.


----------



## TSF415

Corradobrit1 said:


> I guess you're talking about home brewed coffee using a traditional Bialetti. And I agree that sux. But proper espresso made on a La Marzocco is heaven. Heck even the Brits can make machines that are world beaters. Here's mine
> 
> View attachment 90336



I'm guessing he was referring to an Americano. Obviously a single shot espresso machine will make a nicer shot but I grew up drinking out a stove top moka and still enjoy it.

Also more often then not espresso is usually a blend of beans while a quality cup of American brewed coffee is usually a single origin of bean.


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Wrong forum. Or rather, start a thread. I’d like to lurk and learn.


Yes, its a bit of tangent, like so many of the responses in this thread.


----------



## Corradobrit1

TSF415 said:


> I'm guessing he was referring to an Americano. Obviously a single shot espresso machine will make a nicer shot but I grew up drinking out a stove top moka and still enjoy it.
> 
> Also more often then not espresso is usually a blend of beans while a quality cup of American brewed coffee is usually a single origin of bean.


True. But then the very traditional Italians don't drink 'coffee' perhaps because they know diluting the shot too much changes the chemistry and makes it disgusting. Stick to instant or a lungo


----------



## labor of love

In 50 words or less tell me everything I need to know about coffee @Corradobrit1


----------



## TSF415

Corradobrit1 said:


> True. But then the very traditional Italians don't drink 'coffee' perhaps because they know diluting the shot too much changes the chemistry and makes it disgusting. Stick to instant or a lungo



Im first generation American and my entire family immigrated from Italy, I wouldn’t consider them non traditional Italians.


----------



## TSF415

labor of love said:


> In 50 words or less tell me everything I need to know about coffee @Corradobrit1



Don’t buy your espresso from Starbucks and don’t try to order a Starbucks drink at a cafe. That should get you started.


----------



## parbaked

If you need to show some stock picture of a fancy coffee machine to show what you know about coffee, then you know nothing about coffee...


----------



## daveb

Italians know bicycles. 

Not coffee. Hell they even spell expresso wrong. 

The end.


----------



## labor of love

TSF415 said:


> Don’t buy your espresso from Starbucks and don’t try to order a Starbucks drink at a cafe. That should get you started.


I buy Starbucks beans and brew my own coffee. This is also frowned upon?


----------



## WildBoar

daveb said:


> Italians know bicycles.
> 
> Not coffee. Hell they even spell expresso wrong.


Sure, but at least they pronounce all of the letter. I can envision French people only pronouncing through the 'expre'. "Oui, the rest of the letters are silent"


----------



## Toe

labor of love said:


> In 50 words or less tell me everything I need to know about coffee @Corradobrit1


-Buy fresh coffee, if it doesn't have a roast date, don't buy it.
-People mistake coffee strength with roast level often. Stronger coffee is all about dose, not roast level. Lighter roasted coffee is awesome.
-Figure out what flavors in coffee you like and what regions they come from. Don't get caught up in feel good marketing like "fair trade organic" or "direct trade". It's all ********, coffee by nature, is fair trade.
-Try as many brew methods as you possibly can. I recommend starting with a good pour over (v60, beehouse, chemex) or aeropress.
Invest time into learning about coffee. Start with fresh coffee, a scale, and a brew method (measure water temp, weight, brew time). Plenty of resources to get you started. Skip espresso as a beginner IMO. Learn coffee first.
-The majority of you budget for coffee gear needs to go towards a grinder as it makes the biggest difference in the cup.

Damn thats prolly a lot more than 50 words, sorry!


----------



## WildBoar

labor of love said:


> I buy Starbucks beans and brew my own coffee. This is also frowned upon?


It really comes down to how they roast the beans to the edge of too much, and then roast them a tad more just to be sure. There are loads and loads of very good roasters out there, selling through supermarkets and direct via UPS. For some people the flavor/ taste of Starbucks beans is fine, and for others not so much. Years back I tried a variety of the beans/ roasts they were offering, and some were pretty decent. But I have not tried any of their beans in quite some time. I have had a couple coffees brought to me fro some of their cafes though, and they have been horrible.


----------



## TSF415

labor of love said:


> I buy Starbucks beans and brew my own coffee. This is also frowned upon?


I don’t think anyone’s watching so therefore I don’t think anyone’s frowning.


----------



## juice

Starbucks is the Chelsea Miller of coffee


----------



## TSF415

When you have a few family members over and need to quickly make 60 cups of espresso.


----------



## tchan001

Aged Puer raw tea is the best tea. But the real stuff is oh so expensive.









Why Tea Addicts Go Crazy for Pu-Erh


Pu-erh, which is processed in a special way to encourage microbial fermentation after the leaves are dried, ages more dynamically than any tea out there. It does not have fans. It has junkies who buy kilos of the stuff at a time to bliss out on days-long brewing sessions, only dropping out of...




www.seriouseats.com


----------



## labor of love

TSF415 said:


> I don’t think anyone’s watching so therefore I don’t think anyone’s frowning.


Imagine, figurative speech.


----------



## simar

tchan001 said:


> Aged Puer raw tea is the best tea. But the real stuff is oh so expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Tea Addicts Go Crazy for Pu-Erh
> 
> 
> Pu-erh, which is processed in a special way to encourage microbial fermentation after the leaves are dried, ages more dynamically than any tea out there. It does not have fans. It has junkies who buy kilos of the stuff at a time to bliss out on days-long brewing sessions, only dropping out of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.seriouseats.com


Yiwu sheng is better than Lao Ban Zhang sheng


----------



## tchan001

Read the article. You can't get a better tea name than what's offered by *White2Tea* 
--->>> the 2015 Tuhao as ...


----------



## simar

tchan001 said:


> Read the article. You can't get a better tea name than what's offered by *White2Tea*
> --->>> the 2015 Tuhao as ...


The name does nothing for me. Interesting that they are marketing it as a LBZ clone, not sure you can clone a terroir but maybe the taste.


----------



## tchan001

Show you an eye candy tea which was gifted to my father years ago by a business associate. He was gifted two and drank one already saving the other. Guess it's a family heirloom now. I think it's tea from the Qing Dynasty. It seems to be wrapped in paper and the whole package was sealed with wax before labeling.


----------



## simar

tchan001 said:


> Show you an eye candy tea which was gifted to my father years ago by a business associate. He was gifted two and drank one already saving the other. Guess it's a family heirloom now. I think it's tea from the Qing Dynasty. It seems to be wrapped in paper and the whole package was sealed with wax before labeling.
> 
> View attachment 90338
> View attachment 90339


That is super cool!


----------



## ptolemy

tchan001 said:


> Show you an eye candy tea which was gifted to my father years ago by a business associate. He was gifted two and drank one already saving the other. Guess it's a family heirloom now. I think it's tea from the Qing Dynasty. It seems to be wrapped in paper and the whole package was sealed with wax before labeling.
> 
> View attachment 90338
> View attachment 90339


that's like a 300 year old pecorino romano


----------



## M1k3

HOW IS COFFEE AN UNPOPULAR OPINION?!?! Have you never met the typical line cook? It's THE essential food group. Along with cream and sugar. 

As far as Federally legal stuff goes.


----------



## M1k3

Tea isn't either. That stuff got thrown in the harbor.


----------



## labor of love

M1k3 said:


> Along with Coconut cream and stevia.


FIFY


----------



## simar

M1k3 said:


> Tea isn't either. That stuff got thrown in the harbor.


Glad you plan to stick with coffee, more tea for me


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> I love carbs! Carbs! Carbs! Yum yum yum! Keto sucks.


Fixed that for you. Is fify your cat?


----------



## M1k3

simar said:


> Glad you plan to stick with coffee, more tea with coconut cream and stevia for me


----------



## panda

pleue said:


> Chelsea miller's knife making skills are far more impressive than 99% of kkf members' knife using skills.


best post on this thread


----------



## tchan001

Ma_sha1 could probably modify a Chelsea Miller into a Shig styled gyuto.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

labor of love said:


> I buy Starbucks beans and brew my own coffee. This is also frowned upon?



If it tastes good to you that's what counts. I hand grind fresh Kona beans use top drip coffee machine. 

It's like debating best wines or beer it's what you like that matters. I like raw oysters on half shell. Most people hate it.


----------



## Carl Kotte

labor of love said:


> But admittedly I like dark roast borderline burnt ass.


That’s what sea said!


----------



## Carl Kotte

KKF is better now than it has ever been. Those saying that KKF has lost in quality should move on to another hobby.


----------



## Qapla'

tchan001 said:


> Read the article. You can't get a better tea name than what's offered by *White2Tea*
> --->>> the 2015 Tuhao as ...



White 2? How does it compare to Blue Super?


----------



## IsoJ

210 gyutos are stupid. If you need to go small, 180 is the way


----------



## Jville

If you are using a 180 gyuto, you mind as well just bust out your santoku.


----------



## M1k3

If you're using a Santoku, you might as well be using a Nakiri, which you can then turn into a Gyuto.


----------



## M1k3

Takada is Yohei
Yohei is Takada


----------



## Carl Kotte

Everyone loves santokus so long as They are +225mm.


----------



## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> View attachment 90455
> Everyone loves santokus so long as They are +225mm.


What is that? Looks like a sperm for makers mark?


----------



## panda

M1k3 said:


> Tea isn't either. That stuff got thrown in the harbor.


matcha > coffee


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> What is that? Looks like a sperm for makers mark?


The sperm Comet. So I guess it’s an old Dick (slowly moonwalking away).


----------



## Inosuke Hashibira

I really like shun knives.....let me clarify I really like shun miyabi birchwood handle. Wish I could get one for my mazaki.


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> matcha > coffee


This is the UNPOPULAR thread


----------



## Keith Sinclair

M1k3 said:


> Tea isn't either. That stuff got thrown in the harbor.



That was because of taxes. I've lived in Democrat controlled Hawaii over 50 years. They love to tax the crap out of everything. Esp. the tourist. If you don't pay your high property taxes for 3 years it goes on auction block. Parking meters have been put everywhere that used to be free. Rail is way over budget because of corruption. Have the highest per capa homeless in the nation. Also same with crystal meth & no political will erase it from the islands. Everything you buy has high sales tax. In US you are taxed when you are born till you die. Your estate you better pay attention so your beneficiaries don't pay more taxes.

I tell any younger person if you qualify for a Roth IRA get one. Best thing I ever did all those capital gains are tax free. Perfect aggressive investment tool. Not only that it feels good something that they can't get their hands on. My beneficiaries can take money out tax free. To think we were the ones to throw the Brit. Tea in the Harbor over unjust taxes.


----------



## M1k3

Wasn't it taxation without representation? Not the taxes themselves, per se?


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> Wasn't it taxation without representation? Not the taxes themselves, per se?


Shhhh, you're ruining the narrative!


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> Shhhh, you're ruining the narrative!


Right, right. Going to give the natives some blankets now.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Well taxes on alcohol have from the beginning have been unpopular in colonies & USA. 

Britain sold opium to China for tea. USA became coffee drinkers


----------



## Qapla'

Keith Sinclair said:


> That was because of taxes. I've lived in Democrat controlled Hawaii over 50 years. They love to tax the crap out of everything...To think we were the ones to throw the Brit. Tea in the Harbor over unjust taxes.


Then why isn't anyone throwing pineapples into the harbor and removing the extant Hawaiian officialdom?


----------



## spaceconvoy

2008 occupation of Iolani Palace - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





some have been trying


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Because Hawaii is still in many ways a plantation mentality.  I like to eat ripe sweet pineapples that are cheap here.

Hawaii is actually losing middle class poplation in recent years because high cost of living. Cheaper to live on the Mainland. A lot of very wealthy people live here because if you are rich it's a nice place. Beautiful & NE trade winds make it perfect weather.

First was Japanese now plenty Chinese they fit into multi racial population. And rich Americans. 

Housing has gone way up. Our house has risen in value maybe 50,000 when built in early 50's now one million for 4 bedroom 2 bath house.. Wealthy people and location have driven property sky high. Property taxes are high here too.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

spaceconvoy said:


> 2008 occupation of Iolani Palace - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> some have been trying



Hawaiians lost to planters & a few US Marines. There was a rebellion but was put down by superior firepower. Actually Hawaii has a rather large population of Hawaiians mostly mixed with other races. Also Samoans, Tongans, Micronisians.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

If you like movies plenty have been made about Hawaii.

A few lesser known (Princess Kaiulani), (Picture Bride) both give give feel and history of life in Hawaii.

Plenty surf movies. Of the Hollywood kind like Blue Crush. Women's surfing went up in US & Hawaii with that flic. It was a questionable plot local surfer girl falls for NFL Quarterback. But the North Shore scene was pretty good & the feeling of being at pipeline was really well done.


----------



## LostHighway

Keith Sinclair said:


> Because Hawaii is still in many ways a plantation mentality.  I like to eat ripe sweet pineapples that are cheap here.
> 
> Hawaii is actually losing middle class poplation in recent years because high cost of living. Cheaper to live on the Mainland. A lot of very wealthy people live here because if you are rich it's a nice place. Beautiful & NE trade winds make it perfect weather.
> 
> First was Japanese now plenty Chinese they fit into multi racial population. And rich Americans.
> 
> Housing has gone way up. Our house has risen in value maybe 50,000 when built in early 50's now one million for 4 bedroom 2 bath house.. Wealthy people and location have driven property sky high. Property taxes are high here too.



The developed world broadly is losing middle class population. Part of the this stems from changes in technology but globalism (as implemented) and tax policy have also contributed.


----------



## Ruso

Taxes are good


----------



## ian

Ruso said:


> Taxes are good



not unpopular in my circles.


----------



## Carl Kotte

ian said:


> not unpopular in my circles.


(Soft) Communists around The world, Unite!


----------



## Bensbites

ian said:


> not unpopular in my circles.


You are over educated in the northeast. It’s a nice microclimate.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

This covid had better get a vaccine soon or it will be Rich, Poor, Blue tarps & shopping carts here.


----------



## spaceconvoy

carbon steel and cast iron (un-enameled) are for hipsters who don't have the temperature management skills to use stainless steel


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

spaceconvoy said:


> carbon steel and cast iron (un-enameled) are for hipsters who don't have the temperature management skills to use stainless steel



Yeah, that's why I use carbon steel and cast iron.


----------



## mlau

Carl Kotte said:


> End grain boards are... (don’t know, I’ve never had one, but Please insert something appropriately insulting)!


Dude, just get one! They're not that expensive.


----------



## spaceconvoy

applepieforbreakfast said:


> Yeah, that's why I use carbon steel and cast iron.


ha, me too actually


----------



## M1k3

spaceconvoy said:


> carbon steel and cast iron (un-enameled) are for hipsters who don't have the temperature management skills to use stainless steel


Great-grandma and grandma were hipsters?


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

M1k3 said:


> Great-grandma and grandma were hipsters?



Yeah, man. They used it way before it went mainstream. Peak hipster.


----------



## LostHighway

Carl Kotte said:


> End grain boards are... (don’t know, I’ve never had one, but Please insert something appropriately insulting)!



...an excellent murder weapon if you're worried about potentially chipping your knife.


----------



## Lars

M1k3 said:


> Great-grandma and grandma were hipsters?


My grandma used to cook in her pan and then put it outside in the shed to avoid the fat going rancid before she used it again.


----------



## spaceconvoy

here's another one for ya: most grandmas aren't very good cooks


----------



## Carl Kotte

mlau said:


> Dude, just get one! They're not that expensive.


Since I wrote that post I’ve actually got one. It was stupid


----------



## juice

Carl Kotte said:


> It was stupid


Most boards, no matter what grain type, aren't all that bright. Maybe your standards are too high? (Or is it not beige enough?)


----------



## parbaked

Heiji rhymes with wedgie...


----------



## M1k3

And fudgy.


----------



## Rangen

I may have insulted nakiris earlier in this thread.

I apologize to nakiris.

Nakiris are great now.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with my returning from a knife-shopping trip during a vacation with a TF blue steel nakiri. Completely unrelated.


----------



## panda

people that put their nose up at honing rods is cause they suck at using one.


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> people that put their nose up at honing rods is cause they suck at using one.


That's what sea said


----------



## panda

M1k3 said:


> That's what sea said


and the girl


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> and the girl


@Carl Kotte


----------



## juice

Carl is a girl?


----------



## Rangen

panda said:


> people that put their nose up at honing rods is cause they suck at using one.



This one deserves thought. Are you saying that about Euro-knives, in which case I would entirely agree with you, having found a lot of uses for the polished F. Dick steel? Or are you saying it about blue steel/white steel/R2 Japanese knives, in which case I would be forced to admit that there is a frontier I have left unexplored?


----------



## panda

Rangen said:


> This one deserves thought. Are you saying that about Euro-knives, in which case I would entirely agree with you, having found a lot of uses for the polished F. Dick steel? Or are you saying it about blue steel/white steel/R2 Japanese knives, in which case I would be forced to admit that there is a frontier I have left unexplored?


mac black ceramic works well even for high hrc steel if used properly.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

My honing rod is a F Dick Polish


----------



## M1k3

Keith Sinclair said:


> My honing rod is a F Dick Polish


At least you didn't get the F Dick Micro


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> Carl is a girl?


That's what she said?


----------



## simar

juice said:


> Carl is a girl?


Short for Carla or was Carla at some point we may never know


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> mac black ceramic works well even for high hrc steel if used properly.


I agree, you can use them. It's kind of the same as stropping on a ceramic stone, just a different shape. I used an idahone for a long time that i still have. I once slightly nicked a heel on a kono ginsan, because i wasn't totally paying attention, user error. Other than that, never had any issues, it works great for quick touchups. But i do think alot of people are referring to classic european style grooved "steels" rods. Those i won't put anywhere near my nice knives.


----------



## M1k3

simar said:


> Short for Carla or was Carla at some point we may never know


I'm going with Carlos. Wonder if that's a common swedish name?


----------



## labor of love

.


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> .


What happened? Realized you're complaining about something you asked to be sent?


----------



## Carl Kotte

juice said:


> Most boards, no matter what grain type, aren't all that bright. Maybe your standards are too high? (Or is it not beige enough?)


It’s ok. It chipped my knife (that hadn’t chipped before on my old simple boards) on the maiden voyage. That was fun .


----------



## Carl Kotte

You can all call me Carrrrrrrrrrlotta!


----------



## josemartinlopez

IsoJ said:


> 210 gyutos are stupid. If you need to go small, 180 is the way


"We recommend GYUTO knives or SANTOKU knives for the general users

The edge is 180 mm long which is very popular length. If you mind how long is the most useful for you, please confirm the length of which you use."









Japanese Knife Manufacturer TERUYASU FUJIWARA


FAQ. We deliver our products Free Worldwide Shipping! Established a company as a Japanese Swordsmith 140 years ago. We can not provide an opportunity to appreciate how sharp and splendid the traditional swords are directly, however, we make sure how good they are by using the practical kitchen...




www.teruyasu.net


----------



## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> You can all call me Carrrrrrrrrrlotta!


----------



## IsoJ

Jose, so you bought TF santoku?


----------



## panda

M1k3 said:


> I'm going with Carlos. Wonder if that's a common swedish name?


carlgary


----------



## daveb

panda said:


> carlgary



Thats two names...


----------



## M1k3

panda said:


> carlgary


Any relation to Calgary?


----------



## mlau

BillHanna said:


> Kiridashi are dumb. The prices are stupid.


Even use one for woodworking?

They seriously shine as marking knives, and for trimming delicate veneers.


----------



## mlau

Can't believe this thread has over 1400 posts in just over a month...

Here's mine: most hipster knife makers have no idea about good ergonomics. 
e.g. a needlessly long "wa" handle on a chinese cleaver, shows no understanding about how a wa handle works, proper knife skills, or how a Chinese Cleaver works.


----------



## mlau

Also, some people should never touch a good knife.

e.g. The day I received my commissioned Joe Calton Chinese cleaver, my dad hacked two crabs to death with it...making numerous large chips into 4 mm f the blade. My dad also routinely uses good knives to cut directly on plates. He has also drawn blood using a paring knife backwards.

e.g.2 Idiots that over rely on dishwashers,


----------



## parbaked

Pandas make good pets...


----------



## WildBoar

parbaked said:


> Pandas make good pets...


Seriously? In my experience they are very cranky and drink way too much. And they are definitely not suitable for household with impressionable young kids but uptight parents.


----------



## parbaked

WildBoar said:


> Seriously? In my experience they are very cranky and drink way too much.


They just needs lots of hugs and the occasional timeout in the walk-in...


----------



## ma_sha1

parbaked said:


> Pandas make good pets...



Meet my panda pet


----------



## M1k3

ma_sha1 said:


> Meet my panda pet
> View attachment 90619


What kind of booze does your Panda prefer? Knife preference?


----------



## ma_sha1

M1k3 said:


> What kind of booze does your Panda prefer? Knife preference?



She likes only the best of the best Chinese HARD liquor, & her favorite knife is Shig. Kasumi


----------



## parbaked

Jägermeister > Moutai


----------



## ma_sha1

parbaked said:


> Jägermeister > Moutai



What? Is that a cough syrup?


----------



## daveb

Tastes like cough syrup. But doesn't work.


----------



## M1k3

daveb said:


> Tastes like cough syrup. But doesn't work.


Take more.


----------



## ian

ma_sha1 said:


> She likes only the best of the best Chinese HARD liquor, & her favorite knife is Shig. Kasumi
> View attachment 90623



Gotta try some baijiu again. Last time I had it was 10 yrs ago when a girlfriend brought some back from China for me and that bottle was the worst thing I have ever tasted.


----------



## parbaked

ian said:


> Gotta try some baijiu again.


Worst burps ever...


----------



## parbaked

China...5000 years of culture but no good booze...


----------



## ma_sha1

ian said:


> Gotta try some baijiu again. Last time I had it was 10 yrs ago when a girlfriend brought some back from China for me and that bottle was the worst thing I have ever tasted.



lol, it’s an acquired taste for sure, took me couple of years to overcome the initial hurdle. The complexity of good Baijiu has no substitute but it’s important to start with a good one: I recommend starting with Luzholaojiao, ranked within top 5 but still reasonable priced. Dilute it with water by 30% if you don’t to feel like you are drinking gasoline, as it 110 proof, only drink with food, not with empty stomach, & only a little at a time, like half a shot glass.


----------



## parbaked

Life is too short to acquire a taste for sorghum liquor...better options to destroy ones liver.


----------



## spaceconvoy

parbaked said:


> Life is too short to acquire a taste for liquor...


fixed it for you - perhaps the least popular opinion of all


----------



## labor of love

spaceconvoy said:


> fixed it for you - perhaps the least popular opinion of all


Wrong forum.


----------



## labor of love

Jk.
Everybody should drink much much less. Especially those in the industry.


----------



## parbaked

Nobody in the industry should drink any ergoutou...unless they're being entertained in China.


----------



## ma_sha1

parbaked said:


> Nobody in the industry should drink any ergoutou...unless they're being entertained in China.



ergoutou is the bottom shelf liquor from Beijing, it’s dirt cheap in China, like 2 dollar a bottle, I wouldn’t touch it with a 10ft pole.

If your host in China “entertain” you with ergoutou, don’t walk, run


----------



## Rangen

ma_sha1 said:


> lol, it’s an acquired taste for sure, took me couple of years to overcome the initial hurdle. The complexity of good Baijiu has no substitute but it’s important to start with a good one: I recommend starting with Luzholaojiao, ranked within top 5 but still reasonable priced. Dilute it with water by 30% if you don’t to feel like you are drinking gasoline, as it 110 proof, only drink with food, not with empty stomach, & only a little at a time, like half a shot glass.
> 
> View attachment 90659



I have tried to acquire this taste. Oh, how I have tried. I have drunk $300 Maotai and Wuliangye, side by side with $15 Pearl River Bridge, and the only difference I can taste is that the expensive stuff is smoother. All of it smells like a rotting grain silo; I can overlook that. But the magic escapes me.


----------



## simar

Rangen said:


> I have tried to acquire this taste. Oh, how I have tried. I have drunk $300 Maotai and Wuliangye, side by side with $15 Pearl River Bridge, and the only difference I can taste is that the expensive stuff is smoother. All of it smells like a rotting grain silo; I can overlook that. But the magic escapes me.


I guess thats all part of the mystery, what else did you taste besides rotting grain silo, and when was the last time that you tasted a rotting grain silo?


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> Jk.
> Everybody should drink much much less. Especially those in the industry.


this made me pour myself another drink


----------



## Rangen

simar said:


> I guess thats all part of the mystery, what else did you taste besides rotting grain silo, and when was the last time that you tasted a rotting grain silo?



The rotting grain silo is in the smell, not the taste. And your question is not quite sensible, in that the struggle to describe unfamiliar tastes and smells needs all the help it can get, being hard for humans. I have little doubt that dogs would do better, were they granted language. I have not smelled a rotting grain silo, but I have smelled large piles of grain, probably mixed with molasses, at horse barns, when they have been in the bin too long, and it is as close as I can come to the haunting, pungent, dirty smell of sorghum liquor. 

As for the taste, and restricting things to the expensive stuff, it is not like the smell. Not really at all. It's not unpleasant. It's very dry, no sweetness. It's layered. No fruit, no meat in there, but a good dose of umami, and some of the rich character of the more characterful grains, like barley or oats. Maybe a touch of grassiness. I kind of like it, actually; the more one tastes, the easier it is to like. Perhaps your $48.99 suggestion would represent a palatable tradeoff between enjoyment and cost for me. What I cannot see, despite all efforts to see, is the case for $300, which would buy you Chablis or Batard-Montrachet or Cote-Rotie Scotch or Rye from a very very good producer.


----------



## ma_sha1

The grain comments are not me, but starting with $48 Luzhoulaojiao, diluted, was my recommendation.

It takes more than a couple sittings to establish the acquired taste, this one is not as complex but tastes just as good. I wouldn’t spend $300 for Moutai either. Plus, it’s risky if you don’t know the source, there’s lots of fakes for the top two brands, both Moutai & Wulianye, people have gone blind due to MeOH contamination from fakes.

Shoujiou in general do not work in cocktails, one of the reason it could not establish a market in the west outside of China town.


----------



## juice

labor of love said:


> Everybody should drink much much less. Especially those in the industry.


I don't drink at all, so I'm lowering the average, or something...


----------



## labor of love

juice said:


> I don't drink at all, so I'm lowering the average, or something...


I can count on my fingers how many drinks I’ve had this year. Impressive for me, to say the least. Feels great waking up in the morning now.


----------



## ma_sha1

I am a pretty lite drinker, 1-2 drinks a week, & I don’t drink for drinking’s sake. When I cook a perfect dish, the Shoujiou tends to come out, greatly elevates the meal.


----------



## simar

Rangen said:


> The rotting grain silo is in the smell, not the taste. And your question is not quite sensible, in that the struggle to describe unfamiliar tastes and smells needs all the help it can get, being hard for humans. I have little doubt that dogs would do better, were they granted language. I have not smelled a rotting grain silo, but I have smelled large piles of grain, probably mixed with molasses, at horse barns, when they have been in the bin too long, and it is as close as I can come to the haunting, pungent, dirty smell of sorghum liquor.


Sorry I should have not trusted siri to type that out right, but when was the last time you tasted _that_ rotting grain silo?


----------



## M1k3

Who dafuq tastes a rotting grain silo?? 

Back on track: Alcohol is not an unpopular opinion.

I call designated driver.


----------



## Jville

This thread should be called: Hot Mess.


----------



## tchan001

Wow, with that type of transcription ability, trusting siri could get you banned from your replies on BST postings.


----------



## Michi

A bread machine is all you need to make artisan bread.


----------



## Kippington

Michi said:


> A bread machine is all you need to make artisan bread.


Y...you might need flour


----------



## Michi

Kippington said:


> Y...you might need flour


Naw. Ready-to-go bread mix is all that's needed. Just add water…


----------



## juice

Kippington said:


> Y...you might need flour


Oooh, Mr Fancy over here


----------



## Michi

World's best ramen:


----------



## JimMaple98

If you don’t pinch grip and hold a knife just by the handle, you look like you have no idea what your doing.


----------



## Michi

Pinch-grip me this


----------



## JimMaple98

Michi said:


> Pinch-grip me this
> View attachment 90704


ah we may have an exception


----------



## daveb

That's meant to be pointy finger grip. All the better to stab the off hand.


----------



## mlau

That's totally my mom, and my sister in a nutshell.


----------



## tkern

ma_sha1 said:


> What? Is that a cough syrup?


Robitussin> jagermeister


----------



## ModRQC

Buying a new knife never ends up with me (one) almost immediately wanting to buy another one.


----------



## Qapla'

ma_sha1 said:


> lol, it’s an acquired taste for sure...





Rangen said:


> I have tried to acquire this taste. Oh, how I have tried. I have drunk $300 Maotai and Wuliangye, side by side with $15 Pearl River Bridge, and the only difference I can taste is that the expensive stuff is smoother. All of it smells like a rotting grain silo; I can overlook that. But the magic escapes me.





daveb said:


> Tastes like cough syrup. But doesn't work.





ian said:


> ...that bottle was the worst thing I have ever tasted.



So which types of Sinosphere liquors (clearly not baijiu) are more decent?


----------



## daddy yo yo

Keeping stickers on handles (or elsewhere) is ridiculous. This is valid not only for knives.


----------



## M1k3

daddy yo yo said:


> Keeping stickers on handles (or elsewhere) is ridiculous. This is valid not only for knives.


What if it's a Hello Kitty sticker?


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> What if it's a Hello Kitty sticker?


#ParadoxAlert, indeed


----------



## juice

Handles are more interesting than blades


----------



## M1k3

We


juice said:


> Handles are more interesting than blades


Are we talking basic ho wood, burnt chestnut/oak/etc. , multicolored abominations eyesores artistically styled or just nice hardwood (giggity) handles?


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> Are talking basic ho wood, burnt chestnut/oak/etc. , multicolored abominations eyesores artistically styled or just nice hardwood (giggity) handles?


Yes


----------



## Kippington

juice said:


> Handles are more interesting than blades


My brother cares a lot about aesthetic design. He told me that either the handle _or_ the blade should look interesting - never both. If both are competing for visual attention, it's a real mess. The same applies to watches and their straps. I don't know how correct he is, but it sounds good enough to me that I kind of follow it.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Kippington said:


> My brother cares a lot about aesthetic design. He told me that either the handle _or_ the blade should look interesting - never both. If both are competing for visual attention, it's a real mess. The same applies to watches and their straps. I don't know how correct he is, but it sounds good enough to me that I kind of follow it.


I concur with your brothers hypothesis. Take this image of a couple of Ashi honyaki. If the scales were made from some fancy figured wood, the subtle banding and hamon line in the blade would have less impact. There should only be one major focal point for visual harmony.


----------



## parbaked

Kippington said:


> I don't know how correct he is, but it sounds good enough to me that I kind of follow it.


Do you try to use that to tell time when you're messing around with LSD?


----------



## Kippington

parbaked said:


> Do you try to use that to tell time when you're messing around with LSD?


Take enough acid and you'll be seeing that abomination on your wrist, whether you're wearing it or not!


----------



## dafox

parbaked said:


> Do you try to use that to tell time when you're messing around with LSD?


Or take "the spice" and time travel, Lito.


----------



## Kippington

dafox said:


> Or take "the spice" and time travel, Lito.


Hold on tight...


----------



## ian

You could go on a real good bender if you had a stillsuit. Drunk for days, walkin around, no need to go to a bathroom to do your business, and you could easily keep hydrated. Might be hard to have a drunken hookup tho. Fremen sex scenes must involve 30 min of undressing first.


----------



## juice

Kippington said:


> My brother cares a lot about aesthetic design. He told me that either the handle _or_ the blade should look interesting - never both. If both are competing for visual attention, it's a real mess.


Couldn't agree more. One of the questions photographers will ask if a photo is too busy: "What's the hero of this image?" i.e. "what's the main focus - I don't know what to look at here, it's a mess."


----------



## Jville

juice said:


> Couldn't agree more. One of the questions photographers will ask if a photo is too busy: "What's the hero of this image?" i.e. "what's the main focus - I don't know what to look at here, it's a mess."


You just focus on juicing man, leave photography to the pros.


----------



## parbaked

Juice is high in carbohydrates..


----------



## Tim Rowland

parbaked said:


> Juice is high in carbohydrates..



Apparently so.................









Tubby O.J. Simpson is caught stealing COOKIES from prison cafeteria


The former gridiron great was recently caught pilfering the sweet treats from the cafeteria of his Nevada prison - something which is strictly forbidden.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Carl Kotte

juice said:


> Handles are more interesting than blades


So long as I’ve made the handles (moonwalking away)...


----------



## Michi

tkern said:


> Robitussin> jagermeister


A joke term for Jägermeister in Germany is "Leberkleister". It rhymes with the original word and, translated literally, means "liver glue".


----------



## IsoJ

In Finland Jägermeister is called jekku(trick in english). But Gammel Dansk over Jägermeister anyday of the week


----------



## M1k3

parbaked said:


> Juice is high in carbohydrates..


@juice


----------



## juice

parbaked said:


> Juice is high in carbohydrates..


I am amused by the savage irony of that, indeed


----------



## juice

ma_sha1 said:


> The complexity of good Baijiu has no substitute but it’s important to start with a good one:






Like this?


----------



## juice

Damascus is the supermodels of knives - you can appreciate the artform without wanting to have one


----------



## parbaked

Florida is for lovers...


----------



## BillHanna

Virginia would like a word with you


----------



## spaceconvoy

Virginia is trashier than Florida, and we'd be making fun of "Virginia-man" if they had the same Sunshine laws


----------



## labor of love

Virginia is trashier than Florida, but Floridians are trashier than Virginians IMO.

Just a reminder the television show “Cops” was almost exclusively filmed in Florida.


----------



## spaceconvoy

I thought that was because the Florida police departments were more gung-ho about appearing on tv... Outside of NYC, cops in Florida are probably the worst jack-booted authoritarians on the east coast. Most like to think they're playing a part on Miami Vice or Bad Boys, depending on their demographic


----------



## daveb

There's really three Virginias

Inside the beltway is all DC weenies smart enough to not live in MD. A pretentious lot, they can support a Starbucks every block. Rural Va can be very nice, some of it is even still rural. And then there's West Va. So trashy they made it a separate state. Ohio put in a river to keep them from encroaching. Even the Pennsylvania gals are prettier and the Kentucky men are smarter.

In Florida the people are beautiful, fishing is good and it doesn't snow. They do get a bit confused every election time but did I mention it dosen't snow?


----------



## WildBoar

daveb said:


> There's really three Virginias
> 
> Inside the beltway is all DC weenies smart enough to not live in MD. A pretentious lot, they can support a Starbucks every block.


Why you futher mucker!  One can live inside the Beltway in DC and absolutely hate the DC weenies! Well, except for the half-smokes, which actually came from Baltimore but has been claimed as a DC weenie thanks to Ben's. And fluck StarSucks! The people who go there deserve for there to be so many locations, all serving up crappy coffee. Real Virginians have our own grinders and espresso machines, and we don't even fluck around with the siphon, cold press, etc. coffees loved and admired by DC hipsters.

Eh, and you list WVA as one of the 3 Virginias... Well there are at least 3 Virginias, and if anything rural VA is similar to much of WVA. NoVa and Newport News area are not really like other parts of VA. Not saying that they are great, just that they are not like rural VA (well, Michael Vic's dogfighting operation is an exception to the rule -- that's kinda rural...).

Anyway, NoVa has way more to offer than a StarSucks on every corner! Like a Walmart on every corner, a McD's on every corner, a Duncan Donuts on every corner, two 7-Elevens on every corner, etc. You really should come spend some quality time here!


----------



## labor of love

spaceconvoy said:


> I thought that was because the Florida police departments were more gung-ho about appearing on tv... Outside of NYC, cops in Florida are probably the worst jack-booted authoritarians on the east coast. Most like to think they're playing a part on Miami Vice or Bad Boys, depending on their demographic


Gung-ho cops aside, the Zoo that is Florida was put on full display.


----------



## spaceconvoy

True enough.. I live in north central Florida among the gentle, civilized rednecks. The people south of Ocala make the rest of us look bad, and unfortunately they outnumber us.


----------



## bkultra

1911 it's like Glock, but for men.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

bkultra said:


> 1911 it's like Glock, but for men.



1911, it's like driving a Model T.


----------



## simar

applepieforbreakfast said:


> 1911, it's like driving a Model T.


Thats why the 2011 came to the rescue.


----------



## daveb

Rural Virginia has horse farms. West Virginia has pig farms.


----------



## Bert2368

daveb said:


> Rural Virginia has horse farms. West Virginia has pig farms.



I recall driving semi trucks with flatbed trailers loaded with steel through the mountains of West Virginia back when I drove the lower 48 during the off season of our business. It was a beautiful place, yet coud be quite scary and rather dangerous after dark. Nothing like hitting curves and bridges over the valleys between mountains with random strip fog at 0 dark:30 near the end of your 14 hours on duty. I lived.

I always wanted to stop and check out the intrigueing mountain valleys, creeks and small rivers, never could since I was under someone else's load. 

Yes, it was rural. Yes, they were mostly hill people up there. But I knew how to not make them want to kill me. All I had to do was NOT tell them them they were ignorant of the- greater universe and actually listen to what they were saying about their particular cases-


----------



## naader

Ohira suita are lackluster compared to other stones you can get at less than half the price.


----------



## tchan001

I bet a lot of guys on Chelsea Miller's book dream of her grinding and grinding their knife into shape before asking them if they are satisfied with her work.


----------



## labor of love

tchan001 said:


> I bet a lot of guys on Chelsea Miller's book dream of her grinding and grinding their knife into shape before asking them if they are satisfied with her work.


CM is brought up pretty frequently. She must be more relevant than I realize.


----------



## Matus

We should add CM’s name to list of banned expressions for the sake of limiting off topic comments.


----------



## nutmeg

zizirex said:


> is not good because it is promoted in the other FORUM


other forums are for dwarfs


----------



## spaceconvoy

that's really not fair to dwarfs


----------



## ma_sha1

juice said:


> View attachment 91337
> 
> Like this?


You can get very high on MauTai carbs in seed


----------



## zizirex

nutmeg said:


> the other forums are for dwarfs


I thought dwarfs are the famous/better ones for a blacksmith.


----------



## ma_sha1

zizirex said:


> I thought dwarfs are the famous/better ones for a blacksmith.



Dwarf is a derogatory term, I could be wrong, I believe the correct, more sensibly term is vertically challenged.


----------



## juice

ma_sha1 said:


> Dwarf is a derogatory term, I could be wrong, I believe the correct, more sensibly term is vertically challenged.


"Person," maybe?


----------



## M1k3

ma_sha1 said:


> Dwarf is a derogatory term, I could be wrong, I believe the correct, more sensibly term is vertically challenged.


What's the non-derogatory term for Elves? Orcs? Ogre's? Pixies?


----------



## daveb

M1k3 said:


> What's the non-derogatory term for Elves? Orcs? Ogre's? Pixies?



I know a troll who's non-derogatory initials are JML


----------



## Twigg

It was always Belichick's planning, not Brady's ability.


----------



## Byphy

Twigg said:


> It was always Belichick's planning, not Brady's ability.



After 1 game???? Lol (I might agree w this tho...)


----------



## parbaked

Brady did everything Belichick asked of him until he got too old...


----------



## Twigg

Forgot to add this disclaimer: I'm a life long Steelers fan.


----------



## Twigg

parbaked said:


> Brady did everything Belichick asked of him until he got too old...


This agrees with my post.


----------



## juice

Twigg said:


> It was always Belichick's planning, not Brady's ability.


Brady can only operate to his fullest ability inside a well-sorted cheating organisation.


----------



## Byphy

Twigg said:


> This agrees with my post.



I'm ok w Brady failing if it opens the door for Joe Cool to take his GOAT crown back..


----------



## McMan

juice said:


> Brady can only operate to his fullest ability inside a well-sorted cheating organisation.


"well-sorted" and any comment about football are mutually exclusive.


----------



## MoabDave

Look at all the QB's they've shipped off that did great-ish at NE, and then?...
Only Garropolo lived up to the hype. Belichek is the evil genius mastermind for sure.


----------



## daveb

My friends in St Pete / Tampa that follow this juvenile sport are still shell shocked.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

labor of love said:


> Men shouldn’t drive cars period. Only trucks and sometimes SUVs. The El Camino is the only possible exception.



Here the only manly SUV is a 4 wheel drive Toyota 4 Runner


----------



## Keith Sinclair

WildBoar said:


> Men should not drive trucks unless they actually utilize the capacity of the truck. Otherwise they are really just driving an oversized, bloated, slow, heavy car that handles and brakes like poop.



Good luck on that. Totally agree. Going over the Pali in the rain in pickup truck done it not safe at all. Now days trucks are so long with 4 doors & bed. Most are for show & stick out in parking lots.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Lexus SUV for real estate chic's


----------



## Keith Sinclair

panda said:


> automatic transmissions in sports cars are for people who can't drive.



People don't want to drive just press on gas pedal. Americans are *****'s only drive boring automatics.


----------



## WildBoar

Keith Sinclair said:


> People don't want to drive just press on gas pedal. Americans are *****'s only drive boring automatics.


Pfffffft. THIS American drives a boring (Volvo) manual...


----------



## Matus

Keith Sinclair said:


> People don't want to drive just press on gas pedal. Americans are *****'s only drive boring automatics.


Nah, some people are just jealous that others have a sports car as their daily drive


----------



## soigne_west

Matus said:


> Nah, some people are just jealous that others have a sports car as their daily drive
> View attachment 96263



That’s not a sports car


----------



## esoo

Matus said:


> Nah, some people are just jealous that others have a sports car as their daily drive
> View attachment 96263



Not jealous of the car (drive a GTI), jealous of the sceneary


----------



## ModRQC

Drive a Cobalt 2010 starting to rust in places... manual. Mech still decent enough. Not much competition on the highway except for real sports car - newer automatic transmissions are gaining some ground over righteous manual shifting though, this shows in my years of driving manual among automatics. However, invasion of SUVs mean there is lesser and lesser competition still.


----------



## labor of love

Midlife crisis mobile


----------



## parbaked

Needs some stickers!


----------



## ModRQC

4 wheels and a manual transmission allows to smoke 3/4 of rides, used to do this with a Toyota Corolla even.


----------



## Matus

soigne_west said:


> That’s not a sports car


Your membership hangs in balance  



esoo said:


> Not jealous of the car (drive a GTI), jealous of the sceneary


South Germany (close to Zugspitze), it was a great trip.



labor of love said:


> Midlife crisis mobile


Absolutely. I was thinking - I am too old for a motorbike, too cheap/busy for a girlfriend, so I went with the GT86. So basically a logical decision.


----------



## LostHighway

Keith Sinclair said:


> Here the only manly SUV is a 4 wheel drive Toyota 4 Runner J80 or older Land Cruiser



Fixed it for you


----------



## Keith Sinclair

LostHighway said:


> Fixed it for you


Those older land cruisers if I good shape go for good coin.

True new CVT auto trans are being put in everything because programed to get best gas milage. 

Subaru when put turbo in WRX had blown head gaskets couldn't handle extra power. The manual trans very reliable even with extra power.

People were having problems with CVT trans. in their subaru models. Things like slipping & chattering. Subaru extended trans. Warranty. 

Now Honda is using CVT too.

We are into high computer push button driving. Eco, Sport, off-road. More stuff to break drive up the cost of vehicle.


----------



## Twigg

Happy with my Gladiator and 6-speed manual tranny, even if it acts like an old truck 4-speed with 2 overdrives.


----------



## spaceconvoy

The general physics of driving, uniformity of roads, and the concern of safety has lead to cars becoming mechanically homogenous. Progress and technology has made them too stuffed with electronics. As mechanical devices, guns are more interesting.

For the same reasons, their physical design has relatively little consequence on their performance. They're subject to strict regulation, designed by committee, and mass produced. As objects of design, boats are more interesting (not to mention higher status... we're getting to that)

Even as status symbols, they're middle class. True status is not needing to commute for work, and living someplace where cars are an inconvenience - either downtown or in the middle of nature, depending on your preference. Real estate is a higher status symbol.

And for performance, their thrills are mundane. Vroom vroom - big whoop. Having a romantic partner is both more high-testosterone and a more transcendent experience. Sex is the only real thrill in life.

Unpopular opinion: caring about cars is lame.


----------



## Twigg

Sex isn't that big of a thrill if you get lots of it, just saying. Doing things that take you to the edge of your courage, can be more rewarding.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Risking physical danger isn't that thrilling if you get lots of it. Is there anything that brings you closer to the edge of your courage than sex? Not just physically but emotionally, fully grappling with the darkness and lightness of being human. I must be doing it wrong..


----------



## parbaked

spaceconvoy said:


> I must be doing it wrong..


It's same as mastering the Asian language...lots of drills, repetition and flash cards...


----------



## Twigg

I never said anything about physical danger. Im talking about the courage it takes to raise children. To go to work everyday to provide for them and watch them grow. To love them unconditionally. To be there for them no matter what. It is tough AF being a single dad, but it is more rewarding than anything else.

But maybe a perceived religious experience while plowing a field means more to some. The fact is, partners come and go. Sometimes run off, they die, divorce, etc.


----------



## spaceconvoy

I'm not the person you're imagining, and I would never use the term "plowing." For a better sex life I'd recommend going to therapy over any type of physical improvement - you don't even need a partner. I'm sure you're right that raising children is more terrifying and rewarding than anything else on earth, though I'll never know. But I thought we were talking about cars


----------



## M1k3

spaceconvoy said:


> But I thought we were talking about cars


You must be new.


----------



## Twigg

spaceconvoy said:


> I'm not the person you're imagining, and I would never use the term "plowing." For a better sex life I'd recommend going to therapy over any type of physical improvement - you don't even need a partner. I'm sure you're right that raising children is more terrifying and rewarding than anything else on earth, though I'll never know. But I thought we were talking about cars


I apologize, I should not have gone off like I did and I regret belittling your experiences. 

For what its worth, I don't think you are some strange karma sutra cult weirdo. I imagine you are someone that is just very close and connected to your partner. 

BTW- there is a lot to be said for a quick plow though


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> Midlife crisis mobile


im getting a porsche when i hit 40


----------



## parbaked

panda said:


> im getting a porsche when i hit 40


Pandamera?


----------



## WildBoar

panda said:


> im getting a porsche when i hit 40


better to get one when you hit 30. More years to enjoy it, less time commitments in life so you can get out to the track with it a bit, etc...


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Couple of my fun rides in the past.


----------



## blunt_cutter

spaceconvoy said:


> Unpopular opinion: caring about cars is lame.


A car is a tool like a knife so you might as well say caring about knives is lame. Opinions vary.


----------



## spaceconvoy

You're right, caring about knives is lame too. I like knives but I don't _care_ about them. Most arguments here are about what cuts better, sharpens easier, etc. How many arguments on car forums eventually turn towards attacks on masculinity or identity? I don't see that here.

Knife people don't typically define themselves by their knives the way many car people do. Guitar people can be a bit like this but not as bad in my experience. Gun people are interesting, many beginners are toxic but over time they become mellow nerds. In my limited experience car culture seems like the worst (maybe because almost everyone drives a car? a larger pool of potential a holes). Of course I'm stereotyping - anyone can like these things and be reasonable.


----------



## Byphy

Caring is lame.

Sports cars with wack kanji is lame.


----------



## blunt_cutter

one definition of care:
_verb_


1.
feel concern or interest; attach importance to something.
If you have an interest in it, you care about it. So you care about knives.

It sounds as if your personal experience is with those who care more about status than automobiles. They might as well post a picture of their bank account balance on instagram.


----------



## spaceconvoy

I'm using the second definition, "attaching importance." It's not important that I like knives or which knives I like. To some people, "real men play gibsons not strats" - that type of caring is lame no matter what the subject is.


----------



## Twigg

Muramasa was better than Masamune.


----------



## juice

spaceconvoy said:


> o some people, "real men play gibsons not strats" - that type of caring is lame no matter what the subject is.


My Parker Fly is better than either.


----------



## spaceconvoy

You might be right, but debating the difference between electrics is like debating flavors of bottled water  can you tell I'm an acoustic guy?


----------



## Keith Sinclair

I would imagine in the future cars will lose appeal self driving why even own one. Use mass transit. Even the younger generation now is more into new tech not like a bunch of older car crazy guys.

I liked sailboats had a Hobie 16. Sailed on boats that I could never own. Enjoyed open ocean sailing between islands.

Same with surfboards owned several types for diff. conditions. A truck not only to get to work, but to haul surfboards & surf ski kayaks. 

Strapped ice carving tools to back of motorcycles cuz free parking at hotels where had jobs. But did enjoy biker friends. Kimo's house drinking beer oil, engines, gasoline, all that good stuff.


----------



## blunt_cutter

spaceconvoy said:


> To some people, "real men play gibsons not strats" - that type of caring is lame no matter what the subject is.


I know nothing about guitars other than real men only play les paul. Haha. If someone says crap like that seriously they are expressing a prejudice not a feeling of caring for the object in question.


----------



## M1k3

blunt_cutter said:


> I know nothing about guitars other than real men only play les paul. Haha. If someone says crap like that seriously they are expressing a prejudice not a feeling of caring for the object in question.


Ibanez!

Stainless is the bees knees.


----------



## Twigg

Guitars are just tools. What really is important is the guitarist. You can say that a guitar is greatest if it was played to its peak by Eddie Van Halen, Dick Dale or Stephan Paul. Its the master that brings out the qualities.


----------



## Lars

juice said:


> My Parker Fly is better than either.


You would have to be Reeves Gabrels to make that point(and I once owned a deluxe).


----------



## M1k3

Twigg said:


> Guitars are just tools. What really is important is the guitarist. You can say that a guitar is greatest if it was played to its peak by Eddie Van Halen, Dick Dale or Stephan Paul. Its the master that brings out the qualities.


Wrong thread? Or is this an unpopular opinion? What happened to cars and raising children?


----------



## Twigg

I jumped on the guitar bandwagon because I was bored. Either way, guitar people always compare who makes the best, so I threw out that it is the player, not the instrument.


----------



## blunt_cutter

caring about anything is lame, our planet is meaningless within the infinite universe and there are an infinite number of universes like ours which are all equally meaningless


----------



## spaceconvoy

in that case, Wusthofs are the greatest because they were used to their peak by Jacques Pepin


----------



## Twigg

Twigg said:


> Muramasa was better than Masamune.


Either way, I offered up the quote unpopular opinion as well.

Let's say I am being more contrarian than "holier than thou".


----------



## M1k3

Twigg said:


> I jumped on the guitar bandwagon because I was bored. Either way, guitar people always compare who makes the best, so I threw out that it is the player, not the instrument.


Hendrix!


----------



## M1k3

blunt_cutter said:


> caring about anything is lame, our planet is meaningless within the infinite universe and there are an infinite number of universes like ours which are all equally meaningless


So you walk everywhere naked?


----------



## Twigg

spaceconvoy said:


> in that case, Wusthofs are the greatest because they were used to their peak by Jacques Pepin


Does anyone complain about his creations or technique? If the blade didn't work for him, he would have used something different.


----------



## Lars

Twigg said:


> I jumped on the guitar bandwagon because I was bored.


I did it to get girls.


----------



## Twigg

Lars said:


> I did it to get girls.


Plowsmith!


----------



## BillHanna

Macaroni and cheese is disgusting


----------



## M1k3

Lars said:


> I did it to get girls.


You don't even need a guitar. Or skin that doesn't look like jerky.


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> You don't even need a guitar. Or skin that doesn't look like jerky.


Van Hagar was way better


----------



## Twigg

M1k3 said:


> You don't even need a guitar. Or skin that doesn't look like jerky.


Having a silver tongue usually works great.


----------



## Lars

M1k3 said:


> You don't even need a guitar. Or skin that doesn't look like jerky.


In a perfect world..


----------



## parbaked

Lars said:


> I did it to get girls.


You'd get even better girls with your cooking...IMO!


----------



## Lars

parbaked said:


> You'd get even better girls with your cooking...IMO!


----------



## M1k3

Lars said:


> In a perfect world..


Right?


----------



## amithrain

Most chocolate is disgusting. Either too sweet or too bitter. Weird flavor and aftertaste.


----------



## panda

Bleu cheese is foul


----------



## DrEriksson

I would really like to have one of these. 

Chinese Facebook knife, with the copy: "CARING FOR YOUR LOVER STARTS WITH A GOOD KNIFE"


----------



## Carl Kotte

panda said:


> Bleu cheese is foul


This is a knife forum crazy about Japanese knives. Ackschually, I think you should call it ao cheese. How do you like shiro cheese?


----------



## DrEriksson

Carl Kotte said:


> This is a knife forum crazy about Japanese knives. Ackschually, I think you should call it ao cheese. How do you like shiro cheese?



If the wrapping paper is white, you could argue that blue cheese is actually shirogami cheese with a factory patina.


----------



## Matus

parbaked said:


> You'd get even better girls with your cooking...IMO!



I would honestly reply to this, but don't want to risk my wife reading it. So I would just say, maybe it is my cooking ...


----------



## milas555

DrEriksson said:


> If the wrapping paper is white, you could argue that blue cheese is actually shirogami cheese with a factory patina.


The "patina" on the cheese is fine, worse when the cheese appears in the kurouchi


----------



## soigne_west

Being better at cleaning will get you further then being better at cooking in a relationship.


----------



## Dhoff

Sharpening well is more important than what knives you own.


----------



## milas555

Though it's better / more fun to sharpen good knives.


----------



## Dhoff

milas555 said:


> Though it's better / more fun to sharpen good knives.



Indeed, though a challenge is also fun. Who knew a Global knife could be a decent knife cutting wise. Edge retention will always be crap though


----------



## minibatataman

Runny eggs are overrated. The obsession with having your eggs with absolutely no coloration is the dumbest thing I've ever heard


----------



## Dhoff

minibatataman said:


> Runny eggs are overrated. The obsession with having your eggs with absolutely no coloration is the dumbest thing I've ever heard



From thread mate. Wrong thread. At least regarding the first statement.

The second one I've no clue about. Does this mean some people prefer the yolk to be colorless?


----------



## minibatataman

Dhoff said:


> From thread mate. Wrong thread. At least regarding the first statement.
> 
> The second one I've no clue about. Does this mean some people prefer the yolk to be colorless?


Lol I switched posts between threads. The second part was about sunny side up eggs or omlettes, not about yolk


----------



## juice

Dhoff said:


> The second one I've no clue about. Does this mean some people prefer the yolk to be colorless?


Yeah, very confused by that


----------



## minibatataman

But while I'm here I do have a more relevant rant about the forum and BST in general.
To the US members, please, for the love of God, state whether your sale is CONUS only or not. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that but I'm sick and tired of people not stating it, me making an offer which covers shipping to the EU, only to be told they'd "rather not" shop to the EU. Don't be a douche, don't keep EU members on the back burner just in case no one state-side sends an offer. You either are willing to ship to the EU or not. Jesus christ on a candy stick, it's not a difficult concept is it?


----------



## minibatataman

@juice it happened 5 times to me over the last few months, at one point there was a gyuto I wanted to buy and the seller said "he'll consider it" before spending over a week bumping the post and dropping the price till someone in the US bought it. Now you know why my post was so salty :')


----------



## Eziemniak

minibatataman said:


> Lol I switched posts between threads. The second part was about sunny side up eggs or omlettes, not about yolk


Damn these French....
Best fried egg is Thai style, almost deep fried


----------



## tchan001

minibatataman said:


> @juice it happened 5 times to me over the last few months, at one point there was a gyuto I wanted to buy and the seller said "he'll consider it" before spending over a week bumping the post and dropping the price till someone in the US bought it. Now you know why my post was so salty :')


I feel your pain but it's not only BST. I've tried buying from a US based online retailer who canceled my knife order the next day because they didn't want to deal with the overseas shipping situation during this period of coronavirus.


----------



## Iggy

tchan001 said:


> I feel your pain but it's not only BST. I've tried buying from a US based online retailer who canceled my knife order the next day because they didn't want to deal with the overseas shipping situation during this period of coronavirus.



If you ship with a "good" shipping company, it's no problem. Had multiple packages coming from the US (and Japan and Australia) since the pandemic situation and had no problems so far. Just stick to Fedex and DHL Express... 

Last Buy from BST took 2,5 days from US to my home via Fedex...

So... here my unpopular opinion...

People always complain about the unreliable shipping etc. but also complain about it costing more than 3.50... If you want to have a good service/product, accept the price for it.

BTW... +1 on *minibatataman *'s post


Iggy


----------



## Carl Kotte

Dhoff said:


> Indeed, though a challenge is also fun. Who knew a Global knife could be a decent knife cutting wise. Edge retention will always be crap though


Is it that bad? I haven’t noticed.


----------



## Dhoff

Carl Kotte said:


> Is it that bad? I haven’t noticed.



to me it is, but that may be my sharpenkng skills and/or the cutting surface.

my knife from isasmedjan lasts approx 4 times longer before i feel the need to sharpen


----------



## Gregmega

Maz is better than Kato, yep I said it


----------



## tchan001

Better sell all your Katos cheaply and replace them with the better Maz versions.


----------



## Iggy

Gregmega said:


> Maz is better than Kato, yep I said it



Heiji is better than both


----------



## Gregmega

tchan001 said:


> Better sell all your Katos cheaply and replace them with the better Maz versions.


They’re all up for sale except one. It’s on.


----------



## Jville

Gregmega said:


> Maz is better than Kato, yep I said it


Greg put his money where his mouth is, getting that Mazascus. I will say coming into knifes in 2014, i wasnt ready for Katos. By the time i was ready they were difficult and expensive to attain, so I never was able to amass a collection. But ive had my hands on a few. I used to hope Mazaki was going to be a poor mans Kato, but after getting the blues my initial reaction is im more drawn to them than the katos. They are still BNIB though, so i havent even used them. But at the very least Mazaki has really come into his own.


----------



## Colin

Shigefusa's kitaeji gyuto and Masakage's Kumo gyuto look the same to me


----------



## M1k3

The kanji is totally different. And the handles too. The first one doesn't even have any kanji.


----------



## Byphy

M1k3 said:


> The first one doesn't even have any kanji.



I'm out


----------



## alterwisser

The term “hypebeast” was invented with Kato and Shig in mind ...


----------



## BillHanna

Some people who thought it was funny when people wanted kindness during the knives of our wives deal are some of the same people asking for kindness now. *RATM instrumental playing*


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> Some people who thought it was funny when people wanted kindness during the knives of our wives deal are some of the same people asking for kindness now. *RATM instrumental playing*


Uhhh what? Misappropriating Rage? HOW DARE YOU!


----------



## spaceconvoy

Is it a full moon? Mars in ascension? Or something else agitating people tonight... But sure, let's rehash this just so we're clear.

Publicly shaming someone because you're offended on behalf of an imagined third-party whose feelings you're projecting is not kindness. It's a passive aggressive power move deployed to achieve social dominance and satisfy a savior complex, not kindness.

The only similarity between the two situations is they should have been resolved through PM. The way they were handled indicates that both parties were primarily concerned with stoking public conflict, which again, is not kindness.


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Uhhh what? Misappropriating Rage? HOW DARE YOU!


Who dares, wins.


----------



## BillHanna

Would you rather rehash TFTFTFTFTF again?


----------



## BillHanna

Dammit, space! NO.


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> Is it a full moon? Mars in ascension? Or something else agitating people tonight... But sure, let's rehash this just so we're clear.
> 
> Publicly shaming someone because you're offended on behalf of an imagined third-party whose feelings you're projecting is not kindness. It's a passive aggressive power move deployed to achieve social dominance and satisfy a savior complex, not kindness.
> 
> The only similarity between the two situations is they should have been resolved through PM. The way they were handled indicates that both parties were primarily concerned with stoking public conflict, which again, is not kindness.



I don’t want to relitigate this, and I’m not necessarily condoning the tone of the first objection on that thread, but I think it’s sometimes preferable to call attention to something publicly. One should do so in a gentle way that doesn’t rise to the level of shaming, and this is most appropriate when the thing you’re objecting to is commonly accepted by the community. PMing tells that particular person that you’d rather they do something different next time. A public post tells the community that you’d prefer something to be another way, and supports those members who might share your opinion but be too timid to say it. The public post is the one that’s more likely to have an effect on the culture of the community.


----------



## spaceconvoy

ian said:


> I don’t want to relitigate this, and I’m not necessarily condoning the tone of the first objection on that thread, but I think it’s sometimes preferable to call attention to something publicly. One should do so in a gentle way that doesn’t rise to the level of shaming, and this is most appropriate when the thing you’re objecting to is commonly accepted by the community. PMing tells that particular person that you’d rather they do something different next time. A public post tells the community that you’d prefer something to be another way, and supports those members who might share your opinion but be too timid to say it. The public post is the one that’s more likely to have an effect on the culture of the community.


I agree with you in theory, but it only works when done with kindness and empathy. Also, PMing could achieve immediate results since posts are editable.


----------



## spaceconvoy

BillHanna said:


> Would you rather rehash TFTFTFTFTF again?


Yes actually! My new theory is that Masashi now makes every single knife in Sanjo. Mazaki got too famous and now spends all his time riding his harley around rural Japan. This is based on absolutely nothing, but just look at all the Masashi knives at Yoshihiro... suspicious.


----------



## panda

BillHanna said:


> Some people who thought it was funny when people wanted kindness during the knives of our wives deal are some of the same people asking for kindness now. *RATM instrumental playing*


bitching about knives for wives thread was the biggest cry baby move i have yet to witness on this forum.


----------



## Gregmega

My wife uses a Yo Shig petty


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> bitching about knives for wives thread was the biggest cry baby move i have yet to witness on this forum.


I need to revisit this thread and see what i missed.


----------



## labor of love

Jville said:


> I need to revisit this thread and see what i missed.


If Reddit had a wiener and peed all over KKF for a day. That’s what you missed.


----------



## JDC

We are all addicts who keep cheating on ourselves, "I'll stop after buying this, absolutely the last one"


----------



## Gregmega

My wife reminded me that ‘apparently’ I said I was done after I got the Ashi. I don’t remember this. Nor do the 12 knives that came in since that purchase.


----------



## Matus

Off topic comments get removed. Sometimes. Sometimes not. It depends. We apologize for the inconvenience. Sometimes. Sometimes not. It depends.


----------



## blunt_cutter

I wish that moderation a bit ridiculous thread hadn't been closed. It was becoming entertaining.


----------



## panda

blunt_cutter said:


> I wish that moderation a bit ridiculous thread hadn't been closed. It was becoming entertaining.


that thread getting closed only.proved.my.point. there was nothing said in there that warranted to be closed


----------



## blunt_cutter

panda said:


> that thread getting closed only.proved.my.point. there was nothing said in there that warranted to be closed


I find it hard to come to any other conclusion.


----------



## ian

So, I get wanting to clean up threads about knife stuff, because people may want to use them as references and you want the information to be easily extractable. But noone’s going to go to a “too much moderation” thread, or “unpopular opinions” or “The Off Topic Thread” for that kind of stuff. Let the people have their social life. KKF is all we (ok, maybe I) have in this time of pandemic!


----------



## blunt_cutter

Agreed


----------



## tchan001

A paradox. Try to be on topic in an off topic thread.


----------



## Chunkybananahead

Wait, so where can I get in on this “knives vs. wives” debate?


----------



## tchan001

Chunkybananahead said:


> Wait, so where can I get in on this “knives vs. wives” debate?







__





Marriage Deterioration


Just want you less experienced guys know, that it can and does happen whether you buy knives or not. The number of knives in you collection does not cause the issue, but how you prioritize them in your lives may be. Peace.




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Chunkybananahead said:


> Wait, so where can I get in on this “knives vs. wives” debate?







__





The knives of our wives


Hi all, there are 2 groups of wives, I guess. The ones that use our knives or have their own and the ones who use 1 paring knife for everything. So I thought it would be funny, to show the knives of our wives. My wife has her own knives, and she knows how to take care of them. I only have to...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## blunt_cutter

Glasnow looks scared.


----------



## Twigg

Is there a button to ignore a Mod? Just one Mod, not all. Asking for a friend...

Hint, its not @bkultra


----------



## bkultra

Deleting/editing a post does not remove it from our view. There's a history showing every version (pre and post edit)... Tell your friend


----------



## BillHanna

bkultra said:


> Deleting/editing a post does not remove it from our view. There's a history showing every version (pre and post edit)... Tell your friend


I subscribe to spicy threads, to increase my odds of seeing removed content lol


----------



## tcmx3

Texas BBQ is the khaki pants of the food world.


----------



## Unstoppabo

DrEriksson said:


> I would really like to have one of these.
> 
> Chinese Facebook knife, with the copy: "CARING FOR YOUR LOVER STARTS WITH A GOOD KNIFE"
> 
> View attachment 96965



With a bit of tweaking, you could use it like this!


----------



## Twigg

bkultra said:


> Deleting/editing a post does not remove it from our view. There's a history showing every version (pre and post edit)... Tell your friend


I put it back! 

My friend saw it too!


----------



## M1k3

Twigg said:


> I put it back!


That's what she said


----------



## DrEriksson

Unstoppabo said:


> With a bit of tweaking, you could use it like this!




TBH. I’m not quite sure that “I” would be able to do that, but I get what you mean. ;-)


----------



## bahamaroot

DrEriksson said:


> TBH. I’m not quite sure that “I” would be able to do that, but I get what you mean. ;-)


That's what she said.


----------



## Jville

applepieforbreakfast said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The knives of our wives
> 
> 
> Hi all, there are 2 groups of wives, I guess. The ones that use our knives or have their own and the ones who use 1 paring knife for everything. So I thought it would be funny, to show the knives of our wives. My wife has her own knives, and she knows how to take care of them. I only have to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com


Can you point me to the part in the thread where it got crazy. I dont want to have to read a bunch of posts about santokus  . But i do remember seeing some great knives in there.


----------



## panda

Jville said:


> Can you point me to the part in the thread where it got crazy. I dont want to have to read a bunch of posts about santokus  . But i do remember seeing some great knives in there.


people started crying that it wasn't more neutral. such an asinine complaint. like start your own damn thread then or stfu.


----------



## Matus

It is sometimes so hard to take our own advice, isn’t it.


----------



## blunt_cutter

It was entertaining, some very fine folks on both sides.


----------



## bahamaroot

Some got so upset I took all my wifes knives away.


----------



## DavidPF

Lars said:


> Digital audio is flawless. Your turntable is not.


Turntables are certainly flawed, but digital audio as used in CDs is inherently and unfixably flawed; the level of resolution it achieves is an approximation. By analogy with the more generally recognizable terminology of video, all music on all CDs is subtly "audio-pixelated". 

I don't say turntables are better, because that depends on too many things and they're actually often worse. I just say digital is flawed too. 

In the 80s and 90s, many CDs had a symbol "DDD" to indicate "pure digital", which was almost false advertising - they conveniently forgot to mention that music is inherently analog and so are ears. "ADDDA" is *less* pure than "AAAAA", not more. (Unless the conversions to and from digital are performed at an infinite level of resolution, of course - but they're not.)

Knife related content: Purely analog equipment is like a full set of sharpening stones from coarse to extremely fine, but all of the stones are somewhat imperfect. Digital equipment is a sharpening stone that's microscopically absolutely perfect in every way, but by design it's only available in 600 grit.


----------



## Lars

DavidPF said:


> Turntables are certainly flawed, but digital audio as used in CDs is inherently and unfixably flawed; the level of resolution it achieves is an approximation. By analogy with the more generally recognizable terminology of video, all music on all CDs is subtly "audio-pixelated".
> 
> I don't say turntables are better, because that depends on too many things and they're actually often worse. I just say digital is flawed too.
> 
> In the 80s and 90s, many CDs had a symbol "DDD" to indicate "pure digital", which was almost false advertising - they conveniently forgot to mention that music is inherently analog and so are ears. "ADDDA" is *less* pure than "AAAAA", not more. (Unless the conversions to and from digital are performed at an infinite level of resolution, of course - but they're not.)
> 
> Knife related content: Purely analog equipment is like a full set of sharpening stones from coarse to extremely fine, but all of the stones are somewhat imperfect. Digital equipment is a sharpening stone that's microscopically absolutely perfect in every way, but by design it's only available in 600 grit.


That is an impressive amount of audiophile clichés in a single post, well done..!


----------



## DrEriksson

DavidPF said:


> Turntables are certainly flawed, but digital audio as used in CDs is inherently and unfixably flawed; the level of resolution it achieves is an approximation. By analogy with the more generally recognizable terminology of video, all music on all CDs is subtly "audio-pixelated".
> 
> I don't say turntables are better, because that depends on too many things and they're actually often worse. I just say digital is flawed too.
> 
> In the 80s and 90s, many CDs had a symbol "DDD" to indicate "pure digital", which was almost false advertising - they conveniently forgot to mention that music is inherently analog and so are ears. "ADDDA" is *less* pure than "AAAAA", not more. (Unless the conversions to and from digital are performed at an infinite level of resolution, of course - but they're not.)
> 
> Knife related content: Purely analog equipment is like a full set of sharpening stones from coarse to extremely fine, but all of the stones are somewhat imperfect. Digital equipment is a sharpening stone that's microscopically absolutely perfect in every way, but by design it's only available in 600 grit.



I’m glad I’m not an audiophile. If I were, I would not be able to spend all my money on knives.


----------



## Jovidah

The audiophile world is even worse than the knife world. It's basically drowning in snake oil. But at this point I think even most (professional) audiophiles would admit that they have no way of distinguishing a theoretical 'inferior' digital quality from analog. The sample size and resolution is just too good. It's like argueing that analog cameras are better for pictures than 100 MP cameras. 

As for my own controversial opinions. I think it's not so controversial that fillet / tenderloin is overrated... but I actually think that ribeye is overrated as well. The meat parts are great but I don't think they're really better than many other cuts, and the amount of thicker pieces of fat and other crap on them means you're either trimming a decent amount (lowering yield), or pushing up the temperature (just to get all the fat rendered). Personally I can think of several cuts I'd rather have that are usually cheaper. Hanger steak, blade steak, shoulder tender. If it has to be a cut with some fat on it be just as happy with picanha at half the price.


----------



## tcmx3

hmm I mean audiophile is filled with snake oil and floor standers are the single most overpriced items in existence, but redbook is one of the great scientific accomplishments of the 20th century IMO.


----------



## juice

Jovidah said:


> The audiophile world is even worse than the knife world. It's basically drowning in snake oil. But at this point I think even most (professional) audiophiles would admit that they have no way of distinguishing a theoretical 'inferior' digital quality from analog. The sample size and resolution is just too good. It's like argueing that analog cameras are better for pictures than 100 MP cameras.


This, totally. The BS in audio leaves knives for dead.


----------



## SeattleB

juice said:


> This, totally. The BS in audio leaves knives for dead.



That's just like, your opinion, man. 

I get much better sound because Ashi Honyaki cable risers sound better than San Mai.


----------



## captaincaed

SeattleB said:


> That's just like, your opinion, man.
> 
> I get much better sound because Ashi Honyaki cable risers sound better than San Mai.


On now I'm curious. What the hell is so sketchy about the audio world?


----------



## ian

captaincaed said:


> On now I'm curious. What the hell is so sketchy about the audio world?



An entire hobby devoted to extreme subtleties that many people can’t hear at all, and where it’s probably to your emotional advantage to think that your $50,000 speakers sound better than your $1000 ones? Beats me.


----------



## M1k3

Gold plated plugs!
Tin solder to connect the plugs to the cable


----------



## xxxclx

ian said:


> An entire hobby devoted to extreme subtleties that many people can’t hear at all, and where it’s probably to your emotional advantage to think that your $50,000 speakers sound better than your $1000 ones? Beats me.



not to mention $10,000 ethernet cables for audiophiles...


----------



## ian

xxxclx said:


> not to mention $10,000 ethernet cables for audiophiles...



Dude. Like ***. I thought $50,000 speakers was an over the top high end estimate. Shows what I know.


----------



## ExistentialHero

ian said:


> Dude. Like ***. I thought $50,000 speakers was an over the top high end estimate. Shows what I know.


Oh, you sweet summer child. These run about a million bucks a pop: Goodwin's High End - Magico Ultimate III speaker


----------



## xxxclx

ExistentialHero said:


> Oh, you sweet summer child. These run about a million bucks a pop: Goodwin's High End - Magico Ultimate III speaker



genuinely not sure if this is a parody


----------



## M1k3

ExistentialHero said:


> Oh, you sweet summer child. These run about a million bucks a pop: Goodwin's High End - Magico Ultimate III speaker




I... I'm at a loss. Those are ugly.

Oh and the price is ridiculous.


----------



## esoo

captaincaed said:


> On now I'm curious. What the hell is so sketchy about the audio world?



The audio world was doing this kind stuff 30 years ago. It's been interesting to watch


----------



## captaincaed

I can hear...I can hear the rustle of money leaving pockets...


----------



## ian

True audiophiles just plug the ethernet cable directly into their ears, for a truly lossless experience.

Probably we should direct the audio kkf thread here to enrage people.


----------



## tcmx3

10k of room treatment with 10k of gear will smash any amount of gear in a crappy room.

but the margins on those floor standers buys the sales guy a new BMW so guess which you're gonna get sold on D:


----------



## tcmx3

also most audiophile types are so nuts they've convinced themselves that Steely Dan is the greatest band ever (I mean they're fine but come on).

I personally find Adam powered monitors do well enough and I just dont care beyond that point. even most modern classical isnt recorded well enough to justify.

my favorite sounding record is from 1960


----------



## juice

Most audiophiles are on a journey to try to discover how much they need to con themselves - as measured by how much they're spending - in order to prop up their ego to the point that they're able to live with themselves, albeit for a tiny amount of time, before they then need to spend yet more in order to try to regain that fleeting nirvana.

They make the TF-deniers look sane by comparison.


----------



## esoo

I walked away from the audiophile world years ago. Still have my B&W speakers and HD650 headphones and DAC I built myself.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Jeez Years ago had a friend one of those smart guys he would build his own large speakers. Tube amps liked to go over to his house with cool sound effect movies. He taught me about sound waves placement of speakers for sweet spot. 

He bought two large textbooks to become a Microsoft systems engineer. Didn't even go to class read the books went to mainland to take the test passed it. 

Now I have two PSB towers & a subwoofer for TV & music. One thing about good speakers get what you like because they will last for many decades.


----------



## JDC

The usb cable was $110 when I bought it five years ago. Somehow the price is doubled today. It must be good.


----------



## Michi

Uni-directional speaker cables. At $1,000 a meter. They are the thing man!

Just make sure to connect them in the correct direction. Otherwise, they'll sounds like sh*t, man. But, it's easy to tell when they are wrong. It'll sound awful. So, just connect them the other way 'round, man. It'll all be good then…


----------



## esoo

Michi said:


> Uni-directional speaker cables. At $1,000 a meter. They are the thing man!
> 
> Just make sure to connect them in the correct direction. Otherwise, they'll sounds like sh*t, man. But, it's easy to tell when they are wrong. It'll sound awful. So, just connect them the other way 'round, man. It'll all be good then…



You're forgetting the mass loaded risers so that they are not affected by physical movements. 

I so wish I was joking.....


----------



## DavidPF

ian said:


> An entire hobby devoted to extreme subtleties that many people can’t hear at all


Replace the word "hear" with the words "benefit from", and this phrase could be the subtitle/description for KKF.


----------



## Barmoley

DavidPF said:


> Replace the word "hear" with the words "benefit from", and this phrase could be the subtitle/description for KKF.


That is a definition of any hobby, if you are not interested in the extreme subtleties you shouldn't be playing. Gets silly at times sure, but again, any hobby is like that.


----------



## ian

DavidPF said:


> Replace the word "hear" with the words "benefit from", and this phrase could be the subtitle/description for KKF.



Seems pretty different to me. Differences (in terms of aesthetics and performance) between knives are tangible and real. The joke was about buying a $10,000 ethernet cable that isn’t going to make a difference in the aural experience. But hey, maybe it looks sexy, and placebos are real.

On the other hand, it’s true that Denkas cut and sharpen better than Mabaroshis because they cost more. So, maybe you’re right!


----------



## DavidPF

ian said:


> Seems pretty different to me. Differences (in terms of aesthetics and performance) between knives are tangible and real. The joke was about buying a $10,000 ethernet cable that isn’t going to make a difference in the aural experience. But hey, maybe it looks sexy, and placebos are real.
> 
> On the other hand, it’s true that Denkas cut and sharpen better than Mabaroshis because they cost more. So, maybe you’re right!


I know the cable is utterly insignificant... I have a total of 3 or 4 old vinyl LPs somewhere, and everything I listen to happens on my phone, because it's on me. I don't own anything with a speaker bigger than about 3 inches.

A lot of people here remember their "first good knife", and of those, a very high percentage have achieved little to no _usable_ benefit from buying other ones after it.


----------



## Jovidah

I think most people here would beg to differ on that. After good knives usually come even better knives. Then there's different types of knives... different approaches to the same kind of knife, etc.... Sure, there's diminishing returns, and maybe a few cases where there's some placebo going on, but it's nothing like the audio world where selling complete nonsense is a viable business model.


----------



## DavidPF

(I seem to have a slight problem, in which I accidentally post _actual_ unpopular opinions on "unpopular opinions" threads. Sorry about that.  )


----------



## McMan

DavidPF said:


> I know the cable is utterly insignificant... I have a total of 3 or 4 old vinyl LPs somewhere, and everything I listen to happens on my phone, because it's on me. I don't own anything with a speaker bigger than about 3 inches.
> 
> A lot of people here remember their "first good knife", and of those, a very high percentage have achieved little to no _usable_ benefit from buying other ones after it.


How do you know whether this is the case? Or even how different people, with different use habits, goals, skill levels, etc. define "usable benefit"?


----------



## Barmoley

DavidPF said:


> A lot of people here remember their "first good knife", and of those, a very high percentage have achieved little to no _usable_ benefit from buying other ones after it.



You are absolutely wrong but this being unpopular opinion thread you are right.


----------



## M1k3

DavidPF said:


> I know the cable is utterly insignificant... I have a total of 3 or 4 old vinyl LPs somewhere, and everything I listen to happens on my phone, because it's on me. I don't own anything with a speaker bigger than about 3 inches.
> 
> A lot of people here remember their "first good knife", and of those, a very high percentage have achieved little to no _usable_ benefit from buying other ones after it.


No car or took the speakers out?


----------



## BillHanna

This might be more unpopular at mall ninja dot com, but tanto tip/square tip pocket knives are u g l y.


----------



## ModRQC

BillHanna said:


> This might be more unpopular at mall ninja dot com, but tanto tip/square tip pocket knives are u g l y.



There you go... hurting my Higo’s feelings. But it still folds - with friction - under your argument.


----------



## bkultra

BillHanna said:


> This might be more unpopular at mall ninja dot com, but tanto tip/square tip pocket knives are u g l y.



Gecko45 disapproves this comment.

Any unfamiliar with that name should use their Google-Fu and strap in for the true origins of the original Mall Ninja.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> This might be more unpopular at mall ninja dot com, but tanto tip/square tip pocket knives are u g l y.



Don't let Ernie E. or his glaze-eyed army hear you say that or someone might show up at your door and operator-deploy a Wave-equipped, chisel ground, tanto-tipped, knife-like-wedge-thing that cost two bills and go all tacticool on your unlearned, unappreciative self.

Now, if one of them does show up, I recommend just deploying a simple slip joint and calmly slicing and eating an apple, Granny Smiths really stand out and snatch their gaze. It sends them into a frenzy of anger and confusion and they generally run away.


----------



## BillHanna

There are a couple French slipjoints I’m looking at, since it seems I’m falling into that particular rabbit hole.(lapin?)


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> There are a couple French slipjoints I’m looking at, since it seems I’m falling into that particular rabbit hole.(lapin?)



Chambriard and Fontenille Pataud.


----------



## captaincaed

BillHanna said:


> This might be more unpopular at mall ninja dot com, but tanto tip/square tip pocket knives are u g l y.


And useless too!


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

captaincaed said:


> And useless too!



If you think those are bad. Don't look at a Grimsmo Norseman!


----------



## BillHanna

HumbleHomeCook said:


> If you think those are bad. Don't look at a Grimsmo Norseman!


You’re rude for making me look that up.


----------



## captaincaed

I want to slap you Humble. Now I know someone was dumb enough to make that knife, and I'm all sad for humanity again.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Those were selling for well over $1000 for a while too. Got some YouTube hype and those boys rolled in cash.


----------



## bkultra

Knives are more useful with a reverse edge, and yes I'm 1/64th mall ninja


----------



## bkultra

Ok maybe 1/32...


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Don't even get me started on AMTAC.


----------



## BillHanna

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Don't even get me started on AMTAC.


I’m not looking that up, you rat fink.


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Don't even get me started on AMTAC.


School or suppressors?


----------



## bkultra

M1k3 said:


> School or suppressors?



I believe this...









Amtac Blades • Amtac Blades


The history of the development of Amtac Blades and the Northman knife. Amtac Blades makes sturdy fixed blade knives for backcountry and combative use.




amtacblades.com


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> School or suppressors?





bkultra said:


> I believe this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amtac Blades • Amtac Blades
> 
> 
> The history of the development of Amtac Blades and the Northman knife. Amtac Blades makes sturdy fixed blade knives for backcountry and combative use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amtacblades.com



School and knives are the same dude if I remember right.

I spent a few weeks emailing the flag-draped elite warrior asking where his expensive tacticool knives were made and of what material. Never did get an answer. I sure have my guesses.


----------



## tcmx3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Those were selling for well over $1000 for a while too. Got some YouTube hype and those boys rolled in cash.



yeah they were selling out in seconds at that price too.

pocket knife people are wild; the whole hobby worships completely useless knives as long as they meet one criteria; can you use it is a fidget toy. Id estimate at least 75% of what I saw on any pocket knife classifieds was a knife that had never cut anything, or if it had just a piece of printer paper one time.


----------



## tcmx3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> School and knives are the same dude if I remember right.
> 
> I spent a few weeks emailing the flag-draped elite warrior asking where his expensive tacticool knives were made and of what material. Never did get an answer. I sure have my guesses.



looks like m390 on the steel, so could be anywhere really.

m390 is a garbage steel for a fixed blade though. extremely difficult to sharpen and not very tough in the grand scheme of things. besides at half those prices you can buy the best production fixed blades on the market; Bark River. you can EASILY get a 3V fox river, bravo 1 or drop point hunter for under 300 that you couldnt break if you use it as a prybar.

there's a company with provenance and proven products.

if someone shows me a "survival" or combat knife in m390, s45vn, etc I instantly know how much the knife has been used (zero)

oh boy I went to close the tab and I saw this gem. this is tooooo perfect lol. you definitely dont look dorky wearing this lolololololol


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

tcmx3 said:


> yeah they were selling out in seconds at that price too.
> 
> pocket knife people are wild; the whole hobby worships completely useless knives as long as they meet one criteria; can you use it is a fidget toy. Id estimate at least 75% of what I saw on any pocket knife classifieds was a knife that had never cut anything, or if it had just a piece of printer paper one time.



Far from the whole hobby but a segment for sure.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

tcmx3 said:


> looks like m390 on the steel, so could be anywhere really.
> 
> m390 is a garbage steel for a fixed blade though. extremely difficult to sharpen and not very tough in the grand scheme of things. besides at half those prices you can buy the best production fixed blades on the market; Bark River. you can EASILY get a 3V fox river, bravo 1 or drop point hunter for under 300 that you couldnt break if you use it as a prybar.
> 
> there's a company with provenance and proven products.
> 
> if someone shows me a "survival" or combat knife in m390, s45vn, etc I instantly know how much the knife has been used (zero)
> 
> oh boy I went to close the tab and I saw this gem. this is tooooo perfect lol. you definitely dont look dorky wearing this lolololololol
> 
> View attachment 120185



I wouldn't accept a Bark River knife if you offered it to me for free.


----------



## tcmx3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Far from the whole hobby but a segment for sure.



I mean obviously Im being hyperbolic on this one.

but, if any appreciable subset actually used their knives then William Henry would be the most popular company out there.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

tcmx3 said:


> I mean obviously Im being hyperbolic on this one.
> 
> but, if any appreciable subset actually used their knives then William Henry would be the most popular company out there.



Sure. Okay.


----------



## tcmx3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I wouldn't accept a Bark River knife if you offered it to me for free.



hmm ok I have been out of the loop for a while a google search has revealed theyve gone south lately.

that's a shame, my fox river 3v has been a great knife that Ive used for ages.

thanks for bringing that to my attention


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

tcmx3 said:


> hmm ok I have been out of the loop for a while a google search has revealed theyve gone south lately.
> 
> that's a shame, my fox river 3v has been a great knife that Ive used for ages.
> 
> thanks for bringing that to my attention



Mike Stewart has always been, um, south.


----------



## BillHanna

Looks like this convo is in the right thread lol


----------



## tcmx3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Sure. Okay.



it sounds like youre personally offended and I dont get why. 

most pocket knives are absolutely useless, including a lot of really popular brands, especially the Striders, Medfords and Hinderers of the world. I know Hinderer has finally gotten around to making decent knives but theyre still sharpened pry bars.


----------



## tcmx3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Mike Stewart has always been, um, south.



no worse than Chris Reeve, Mick Strider, etc. 

it used to at least be the case you could count on getting a decent knife from them. even that looks questionable now.


----------



## BillHanna

I know nothing on this. What do you mean by useless? What’s your bare minimum capability for a pocket knife.


----------



## bkultra

tcmx3 said:


> If someone shows me a "survival" or combat knife in m390, s45vn, etc I instantly know how much the knife has been used (zero)



I could care less what steel my fighting or "combat" knives are made from... Because they are never used, and that's the point. We have training blades (drones) made. Often one of steel to work on draws and a Nok for FoF training. I'm fine with m390,440,O1.

The first knife I posted is 3V and the 2nd O1


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

tcmx3 said:


> no worse than Chris Reeve, Mick Strider, etc.
> 
> it used to at least be the case you could count on getting a decent knife from them. even that looks questionable now.



Well, I'll give you that Mick Strider is indeed worse than Mike Stewart.


----------



## tcmx3

BillHanna said:


> I know nothing on this. What do you mean by useless? What’s your bare minimum capability for a pocket knife.



it should actually cut things. maybe even cut them well.

as a group the most useful pocket knives are actually traditionals; things like opinels or gecs.

anyway Im gonna exit stage left now because it looks like you cant even offer a light criticism of any of the tough guys without folks who probably arent even that type getting prickly about it.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

tcmx3 said:


> it should actually cut things. maybe even cut them well.
> 
> as a group the most useful pocket knives are actually traditionals; things like opinels or gecs.
> 
> anyway Im gonna exit stage left now because it looks like you cant even offer a light criticism of any of the tough guys without folks who probably arent even that type getting prickly about it.


----------



## BillHanna

tcmx3 said:


> it should actually cut things. maybe even cut them well.
> 
> as a group the most useful pocket knives are actually traditionals; things like opinels or gecs.
> 
> anyway Im gonna exit stage left now because it looks like you cant even offer a light criticism of any of the tough guys without folks who probably arent even that type getting prickly about it.


THIS. IS. THE THREAD. FOR THAT. 


BURN IT ALL.


----------



## bkultra

Topic change...

FoH earns all those tips


----------



## BillHanna

Circus peanuts are great


----------



## ian

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Don't look at a Grimsmo Norseman!



Ooooooh! Sexy. @nakiriknaifuwaifu, is it Mass Drop 3 material?


----------



## bkultra

Mathematics are overrated 

Edit: No fun when it starts a new page and you don't see the post just above


----------



## BillHanna

ian said:


> Ooooooh! Sexy. @nakiriknaifuwaifu, is it Mass Drop 3 material?


If Massdrop 3 isn’t a nakiri, I’m kicking his adze


----------



## ian

bkultra said:


> Mathematics are overrated



I'm going to tip FOH 200% next time I go out. That's the standard rate, right? I never can remember percentages.


----------



## tcmx3

BillHanna said:


> THIS. IS. THE THREAD. FOR THAT.
> 
> 
> BURN IT ALL.



Im good on the pocket knives.

Im happy to offer nuclear takes on other topics:

* daylight savings time, the imperial measuring system, tipping and toll roads should all be nuked out of existence
* Elon Musk is actually incredibly dumb, and it's a real shame that Peter Thiel couldnt completely destroy him in the 90s
* Darren Aronofsky's 2006 film The Fountain is actually an incredible movie. Also, Harakiri is better than ANY Kurosawa film
* Queen is the greatest rock band of all time, full stop.


----------



## bkultra

tcmx3 said:


> * Queen is the greatest rock band of all time, full stop.


/Reported


----------



## tcmx3

bkultra said:


> /Reported



I dont know who you think is better, but they didnt write Princes of the Universe, the main theme from the 1986 movie Highlander starring Christopher Lambert, so I rest my case.


----------



## M1k3

Meat Puppets > Queen


----------



## ian

Vanilla Ice > Queen.

I think Freddie Mercury acknowledged that in that famous interview where he admits that he stole the beat from Ice, Ice Baby.


----------



## tcmx3

ian said:


> Vanilla Ice > Queen.
> 
> I think Freddie Mercury acknowledged that in that famous interview where he admits that they stole the beat from Ice, Ice Baby.



ok for my own clarification are you joking because I cant tell.

but Under Pressure was released 9 years before in case not...


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

I too will move on so...

Premium vodkas are marketing hype designed to take your money.

Vodka is, by definition, essentially odorless and flavorless. You can get that for about $25USD a bottle. Whatever the well brand is, if mixed, as most vodka orders are, would probably never be discernable over a premium brand. 

Most spirits strive to get unique flavors and scents but vodka strives for purity. So, um, how much less flavorful is $50 vodka versus $25 vodka?


----------



## xxxclx

captaincaed said:


> And useless too!



watching the epic epic masterpiece Surviving Edged Weapons just might change y’all’s minds


----------



## chefwp

OnionSlicer said:


> Magnetic knife strips are space inefficient and look tacky.


but my block was full! Overflow parking...


----------



## BillHanna

Zealots calling zealots zealots with such zeal is a lot.


----------



## bsfsu

Most pro chefs don't know how to cut propers or look after their knives. Let alone know much about knives.


----------



## M1k3

bsfsu said:


> Most pro chefs don't know how to cut propers or look after their knives. Let alone know much about knives.


Or sanitizer. Cross contamination. Like "how the hell did you get your food handlers and have a job? ANNNDDDDDDdddddd haven't poisoned anyone?"


----------



## Lars

M1k3 said:


> Meat Puppets > Queen


I think the puppets might disagree..


----------



## M1k3

Lars said:


> I think the puppets might disagree..


----------



## juice

I would have thought this was common sense, but it appears from BST that this is an unpopular opinion: If you're selling multiple knives and you're not smart enough to make multiple posts (unless you're selling them together), make some sort of effort to group the descriptions and photos together (or at least name the photos intelligently) so it makes sense to the human brain rather than just dumping everything randomly into a post that makes it look as though your dog ate it all and then threw up behind the fridge.


----------



## Barmoley

Agree on labeling photos and organizing. Also, prefer single thread per knife, but this is actually forum dependent. There are forums that actually want you to dump all the items you sell into a single thread instead of having a thread per item. Most likely this is due to very high volumes of sales, so thread per item would just create pages and pages of new threads.


----------



## M1k3

juice said:


> I would have thought this was common sense, but it appears from BST that this is an unpopular opinion: If you're selling multiple knives and you're not smart enough to make multiple posts (unless you're selling them together), make some sort of effort to group the descriptions and photos together (or at least name the photos intelligently) so it makes sense to the human brain rather than just dumping everything randomly into a post that makes it look as though your dog ate it all and then threw up behind the fridge.


1 or 2, maybe 3 in a single post, if put together intelligently, works. But agreed.


----------



## spaceconvoy

[I was going to post this in the thread about greatest living knife makers, but it turned into a rant I'm not qualified to make]

The best knife maker is probably whoever has a singular talent, no? Would that be one of the many septuagenarians who have been working with simple carbon steels for decades, or someone who can forge vg10 honyaki  The reason why young self-taught smiths focus exclusively on carbon is because it's less difficult to master (looking at you Sweden). These knives are becoming ubiquitous and forgettable. I predict the future will be forged stainless: the Stainless 20s


----------



## ian

Save yourself @spaceconvoy! Sweden is coming to **** you up!


----------



## inferno

spaceconvoy said:


> [I was going to post this in the thread about greatest living knife makers, but it turned into a rant I'm not qualified to make]
> 
> The best knife maker is probably whoever has a singular talent, no? Would that be one of the many septuagenarians who have been working with simple carbon steels for decades, or someone who can forge vg10 honyaki  The reason why young self-taught smiths focus exclusively on carbon is because it's less difficult to master (looking at you Sweden). These knives are becoming ubiquitous and forgettable. I predict the future will be forged stainless: the Stainless 20s




i'm swedish. thank you 

and i'm also a hobby maker. it was around 2003-4 or so cliff stamp simply told me to borrow a book about steel at the library.
and it turned out we had the most ****ing awesome books about steel ever printed. and i read them all. i know all the ins and outs with all types of steel.
i read it in a book. a book that condensed 500 years of steel knowledge to 3-400 pages. written by bofors! yeah, that bofors.

imo the reason why most low volume knife makers concentrate on carbon steels is this:

you can HT with a flame or charcoal. so no electric furnace needed. i HT with a weed burner with propane in a "house" of fire bricks. like 1 brick deep.
after i crack the steel to check grain size. its always just matte gray.

so this is very easy to do at home right. but forging damascus its not very easy to do. Aand if they do it by hand expect to pay 1k. this is no joke. i tried to manually forge out a bearing in 52100 with acetylene (free acetylene) and to be honest i would still have to charge you 7-800 for that. no joke.

you get waht you pay for. you want truly handmade you have to pay for it too. for several years have wondered how dalman can be so cheap it dont make sense at all. but somehow he makers it work. and he has done all calcultations on how to survive on making knives. trust me.

when i see one of his knives for like 500€ or a hss for 800€ i feel its ****ing cheap because i know how much work that goes into that to become a finished product. its cheaper for me to simply just buy it if i want it.

i make my own knives out of uddeholm 15n20 and krupp 80crv2. its the best for me. its very forgiving when flame hardening. i can get 62-63hrc after temper and imo this is much much better steel than white 1,2,3. much tougher for a given hardness. i made a sword out of 80crv2. 

its not hard to find swedish makers only doing stainless .but why the F would you want that. just get a misono in 19c27. sandvik. swedish too. its not gonna be better just because someone makes it by hand.

this is the national anthem


(edited because i dont know how to spell)


----------



## juice

M1k3 said:


> 1 or 2, maybe 3 in a single post, if put together intelligently, works. But agreed.


It's like you could tell I put that specific carve-out in there for you, because when you do it, you do it intelligently


----------



## ian

I’m fine with multiple knives in the same thread, although it can get confusing if there are more than 3 or 4. If you’re gonna list multiple knives, though, have a section of the OP devoted to each knife, with individual pics of that knife included there as part of the text. Do NOT list all the knives and prices and then do a pathetic group shot of all the knives at the end, especially if you don’t even bother to label them. Drives me up the wall.

Also, if you’re listing multiple knives in the same thread, include periodic updates on ALL the knives. Like if one knife sells, don’t just say “Misono sold”. Say

“Misono SOLD
Mac SPF
Takamura $3000 shipped CONUS
Xerxes $100 shipped globally via DHL”

or whatever every time, so that the readers don’t have to scroll through all the pages of comments to find out which knives are still available, they can just look at the last comment.

If there are only a couple posts and you can edit the OP this isn’t a big deal, but it becomes frustrating if there are a billion posts and bumps and such.


----------



## BillHanna

@ian you’re so fxcking sexy when you make sense.


----------



## WiriWiri

Ian always makes sense. He must be permasexy to you

Anyway, judging by the price list above, we need to harness Ian’s good sense and elevated bargaining skills. I’m mounting a coup and declaring Ian the chief dictator in charge of the Xerxes Massdrop for a start.


----------



## matchplay18

I really like this thread. Take it in stride just comments


----------



## BillHanna

I hope everyone who has complained about people on welfare returned their stimulus checks.


----------



## big_adventure

People who complain about people on welfare (or any other social program) should be shot back behind the woodshed.

Or forced to live the life of the person they are complaining about for a year. Do social programs have issues? Of course they do. Is there occasional fraud and whatnot? Of course. But they do infinitely more good than harm, and any fraud or cheating is a feature, not a flaw: you can completely eliminate fraud in social programs, in health care, in taxes, in anything, but the cost to do so is much more expensive then the problem. Facts, backed up by literally centuries of data. 

/rant


----------



## juice

big_adventure said:


> People who complain about people on welfare (or any other social program) should be shot back behind the woodshed.


You sound like some sort of Australian communist, or something.


----------



## big_adventure

juice said:


> You sound like some sort of Australian communist, or something.



Win some, lose some?


----------



## M1k3

Whatsapp


----------



## ian

Forum does not need a block function.


----------



## M1k3

A good Sous Chef. Been watching my Chef show the Sous Chef how to make the desserts and other assorted stuff for the past 4 hours. He could of just handed me the recipes and been done with it.


----------



## Qapla'

big_adventure said:


> People who complain about people on welfare (or any other social program) should be shot back behind the woodshed.





juice said:


> You sound like some sort of Australian communist, or something.


Communists are well-known for murdering dissenters, so that does check out.


----------



## panda

ian said:


> Forum does not need a block function.


why didn't you reply to the original post this is in reference to? 

fwiw i dont think it's necessary either, I ignore most posts anyway


----------



## Luftmensch

M1k3 said:


>



Most overrated movie


----------



## xxxclx

Luftmensch said:


> Most overrated movie


----------



## Barclid

Holy **** this thread is still going?


----------



## Qapla'

Barclid said:


> Holy **** this thread is still going?


The opinions are unpopular, but that doesn't mean the thread is.


----------



## Barclid

Qapla' said:


> The opinions are unpopular, but that doesn't mean the thread is.



Last I remember, people were mostly stating popular opinions.


----------



## M1k3

Barclid's fanfiction.


----------



## Barclid

M1k3 said:


> Barclid's fanfiction.



Oh right, I forgot I had promised that. I totally forgot who I was going to include and what sort of raunchy stuff they'd be doing.


----------



## Luftmensch

Luftmensch said:


> Most overrated movie



Ok... I have to break...


.... its probably in my top 5...


----------



## xxxclx

Luftmensch said:


> Ok... I have to break...
> 
> 
> .... its probably in my top 5...



for a second I thought you were a nihilist


----------



## Luftmensch

xxxclx said:


> for a second I thought you were a nihilist



say what you want about the tenants of National Socialism... at least it's an ethos!


----------



## labor of love

Spend more time with your wife than your knives. Even if you’re...ya know.


----------



## ian

panda said:


> why didn't you reply to the original post this is in reference to?
> 
> fwiw i dont think it's necessary either, I ignore most posts anyway



heh, cause i don’t really care that much one way or another and just like stirring ****!


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> why didn't you reply to the original post this is in reference to?
> 
> fwiw i dont think it's necessary either, I ignore most posts anyway


The cool part is where you look forward to the like emoji your comment gets on a knife forum.


----------



## spaceconvoy

People who use wa handled honesuki also see no problem with putting their spoon back into the peanut butter jar after licking it


----------



## captaincaed

People who say "never sharpened, just stropped on stones" are going to the special hell reserved for pedophiles and Prius drivers.


----------



## ian

captaincaed said:


> People who say "never sharpened, just stropped on stones" are going to the special hell reserved for pedophiles and Prius drivers.



 I have a snickers bar I could mail you if you are low on blood sugar.


----------



## captaincaed

I just laughed so loud I woke the cat up

With the exception of a midnight to 6am break, I've been coding since 8am yesterday.


----------



## captaincaed

I'm fuelled by mollases cookies and thesis rage.


----------



## daveb

spaceconvoy said:


> People who use wa handled honesuki also see no problem with putting their spoon back into the peanut butter jar after licking it



I do both. Is there a problem?


----------



## labor of love

daveb said:


> I do both. Is there a problem?


You dropped this  King.


----------



## Luftmensch

captaincaed said:


> People who say "never sharpened, just stropped on stones" are going to the special hell reserved for pedophiles and Prius drivers.





ian said:


> I have a snickers bar I could mail you if you are low on blood sugar.





Does that mean you drive a Prius?


----------



## Luftmensch

captaincaed said:


> I'm fuelled by mollases cookies and thesis rage.



Theses are 70% presentation 30% content??


----------



## captaincaed

And another 80% recoding because I wasn't smart enough the first time >.<


----------



## refcast

cs, or coding for another subject? (it's all cs though . . . )


----------



## captaincaed

Biostats. R.


----------



## captaincaed

Recent reviews in a nutshell


----------



## RDalman

I've enjoyed kms greatly actually. And met alot of them and awesome folks. Any review is a good one


----------



## tcmx3

captaincaed said:


> Biostats. R.



Id go on a long rant about why R is the worst programming language but this is the unpopular opinions thread so...


----------



## captaincaed

I like any review as well. I don't think tongue in cheek is coming through very well. It's good natured ribbing...

Also, R 4eva. If you have tidy verse. I hear Python is nice too.


----------



## captaincaed

RDalman said:


> I've enjoyed kms greatly actually. And met alot of them and awesome folks. Any review is a good one


I just signed up. Their reviews are brutally honest. I appreciate the visuals they put together. And their unabashed love for jigs


----------



## tcmx3

captaincaed said:


> I like any review as well. I don't think tongue in cheek is coming through very well. It's good natured ribbing...
> 
> Also, R 4eva. If you have tidy verse. I hear Python is nice too.



Python pays the bills. At least I dont have to use SAS/SPSS/Matlab anymore which was how I did that for the first 5 or 6 years of my career.

Ultimately though Im a Rust shill:


----------



## captaincaed

Oh god bless ****** Antiquated Software...
Honestly have no clue what Rust is... To Google...


----------



## spaceconvoy

true kings use haskell


----------



## captaincaed




----------



## tcmx3

me and the boys getting ready to save a jpg on our vintage computer


----------



## spaceconvoy

It's sad when you see knives of BST that you know will end up with the wrong person. I just want all good knives to find their forever home.


----------



## Jville

This thread was good once upon a time, a long, long , time ago.


----------



## Luftmensch

captaincaed said:


> And another 80% recoding because I wasn't smart enough the first time >.<



In keeping with the previous theme:






Good luck!




captaincaed said:


> Recent reviews in a nutshell



I would also guess that the percentage of thesis completed is inversely proportional to amount of knowledge accrued of internet memes and jokes.




captaincaed said:


> View attachment 125266



Well... since you opened that can of worms... and this is the unpopular opinions thread....

emacs > vim

Did you try


Code:


C-x C-t thesis-auto-fill

It puts parentheses... everywhere... but it can get you out of a bind...


----------



## esoo

Luftmensch said:


> emacs > vim



20 years as a unix admin and I think I've started emacs twice....


----------



## captaincaed

Luftmensch said:


> Well... since you opened that can of worms... and this is the unpopular opinions thread....
> 
> emacs > vim
> 
> Did you try
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> C-x C-t thesis-auto-fill
> 
> It puts parentheses... everywhere... but it can get you out of a bind...


You are such an evil bastard

For the record, all I know is Rstudio, which is a pretty killer IDE


----------



## stringer

captaincaed said:


> You are such an evil bastard
> 
> For the record, all I know is Rstudio, which is a pretty killer IDE



I like R. Thought about making a career move to data science but somehow got sucked into another chef job.


----------



## captaincaed

stringer said:


> I like R. Thought about making a career move to data science but somehow got sucked into another chef job.


Seriously? How did you get started? 
It's funny, because now having to do generalized linear mixed model regressions for a quarter, I'm also thinking about going back into a kitchen. Ugg.


----------



## tcmx3

stringer said:


> I like R. Thought about making a career move to data science but somehow got sucked into another chef job.



(a serious aside)

if you ever decide you want to go for it, feel free to ping me. Im coming up on my 10 year anniversary in data science work here in a few months.

that goes for anyone else, too. whether it's education, interviewing, honest takes on what it's like to do it, even pointing you to a recruiter, etc.


----------



## stringer

captaincaed said:


> Seriously? How did you get started?
> It's funny, because now having to do generalized linear mixed model regressions for a quarter, I'm also thinking about going back into a kitchen. Ugg.



The pandemic took away my job and my feet are no good. So I thought I would retire from cooking. A friend of mine is a statistician and she told me I would like data science stuff. I made it through 7 courses of a Coursera R/data science specialization. But then I found a new gig that will hopefully be a little less strenuous and crazy than typical kitchen work.


----------



## captaincaed

**** man. Well good luck on our feet. My partner wears crocs inside at home from foot issues, and says it helps tremendously. I tell her the crocs suck all the sexy out of the room, and she correctly ignores me.

Did you enjoy the coding you started? R can be hard to get into, and it's quirky, but really flexible in ways I appreciate the more I use it.


----------



## captaincaed

tcmx3 said:


> (a serious aside)
> 
> if you ever decide you want to go for it, feel free to ping me. Im coming up on my 10 year anniversary in data science work here in a few months.
> 
> that goes for anyone else, too. whether it's education, interviewing, honest takes on what it's like to do it, even pointing you to a recruiter, etc.


I think I will....


----------



## stringer

captaincaed said:


> **** man. Well good luck on our feet. My partner wears crocs inside at home from foot issues, and says it helps tremendously. I tell her the crocs suck all the sexy out of the room, and she rightly ignores me.
> 
> Did you enjoy the coding you started? R can be hard to get into, and it's quirky, but really flexible in ways I appreciate the more I use it.



I really enjoy coding in R. I don't have a computer science background so I can't really compare it to other languages. But I've always been into math and statistics and spreadsheets. And I was planning to use the knowledge to stay doing something related to food and beverage. And R is pretty intuitive for they kind of stuff. Like building generalized linear models off of sales history to make predictions about future demand to help with purchasing and scheduling. Or isolating the seasonality effect of your hotel occupancy.


----------



## Mikeltee

Bro you need to get a coding job while you still can! I have a software engineering degree and applied for a year and didn't get 1 call. 20+ years in the restaurant business. I got a gig as an electrician doing mainly PLC programming so I'm happy. It's 125k a year and 6 weeks vaca to start so I'm kinda glad I didn't get any calls.


----------



## tgfencer

Mikeltee said:


> Bro you need to get a coding job while you still can! I have a software engineering degree and applied for a year and didn't get 1 call. 20+ years in the restaurant business. I got a gig as an electrician doing mainly PLC programming so I'm happy. It's 125k a year and 6 weeks vaca to start so I'm kinda glad I didn't get any calls.



I've chosen all the wrong professions.


----------



## Mikeadunne

tgfencer said:


> I've chosen all the wrong professions.


ditto


----------



## stringer

Mikeltee said:


> Bro you need to get a coding job while you still can! I have a software engineering degree and applied for a year and didn't get 1 call. 20+ years in the restaurant business. I got a gig as an electrician doing mainly PLC programming so I'm happy. It's 125k a year and 6 weeks vaca to start so I'm kinda glad I didn't get any calls.



I am going to keep working on it. But now I have to open a new restaurant first, lol. I'm think I'm going to take a few community college courses over the next couple of years (it has been twenty years since I took calculus or linear algebra, and I need some basic computer science and some python). Then I might apply to a grad program.


----------



## tcmx3

Mikeltee said:


> Bro you need to get a coding job while you still can! I have a software engineering degree and applied for a year and didn't get 1 call. 20+ years in the restaurant business. I got a gig as an electrician doing mainly PLC programming so I'm happy. It's 125k a year and 6 weeks vaca to start so I'm kinda glad I didn't get any calls.



please correct me if this is a wrong understanding, but that salary seems pretty fair for a job where half the training is how to avoid dying a horrible death.


----------



## Mikeltee

tcmx3 said:


> please correct me if this is a wrong understanding, but that salary seems pretty fair for a job where half the training is how to avoid dying a horrible death.


Safety is shoved down your throat on day 1. It's our #1 priority. Every day we deal with 4mv to 4160v. We burn trash and turn it into steam which inturn turns it to electricity. We don't do anything we aren't comfortable with. My team consists mainly of guys that have been there for over 20 years. The lockout/tagout procedures are in place for a reason. I have more risk of having a heart attack from climbing the 200' smokestack than I do of electrocution. Not many electricians make 125k a year bro I assure you. I got lucky AF! Luck defined as preparation meets opportunity! It took my until I was 45 to get out of the restaurant business. That place will kill you! I must admit though I am grateful for my knife and saute pan tossing skills!


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Back on topic... Stainless clad carbon is for non-committal wussies.


----------



## esoo

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Back on topic... Stainless clad carbon is for non-committal wussies.



clad knives are for wussies afraid of work....


----------



## captaincaed

stringer said:


> I really enjoy coding in R. I don't have a computer science background so I can't really compare it to other languages. But I've always been into math and statistics and spreadsheets. And I was planning to use the knowledge to stay doing something related to food and beverage. And R is pretty intuitive for they kind of stuff. Like building generalized linear models off of sales history to make predictions about future demand to help with purchasing and scheduling. Or isolating the seasonality effect of your hotel occupancy.


This is the same kind of idea I had for a side hustle once I'm done with my degree. I think with your subject area knowledge of how the industry works, you could have both a fruitful career _and_ help smaller restaurants make good decisions off the bat and avoid some easy pitfalls. 

Let me know if you ever want any (always free) R resources. After two years in the program, I have a whole pile, and have sorted some wheat from chaff. One course in particular is entirely available online, and it's all centered around making reports directly from your code that others can read. R Markdown. All lectures on youtube too, really good, energetic instructor.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Back on topic... Stainless clad carbon is for non-committal wussies.



when it comes to choosing cladding for a carbon core, it's a bit like shopping for fishnets - depending on your outlook, there are some that are a lot more exciting and a lot less smelly than others


 vs


----------



## refcast

Well i'm glad my off topic comment helped lead to something nice


----------



## Luftmensch

esoo said:


> 20 years as a unix admin and I think I've started emacs twice....



But this _*is*_ an unpopular opinions thread... dare I ask... is that because in those 20 years you only figured out how to close Vim twice?  




captaincaed said:


> You are such an evil bastard





Is that because emacs == vim??



Code:


;; Enable Evil
(require 'evil)
(evil-mode 1)


... a mediocre joke that 3 people will appreciate


----------



## Luftmensch

captaincaed said:


> tell her the crocs suck all the sexy out of the room, and she correctly ignores me.



#unpopularopinions 


I don't know why... but YouTube recommended a video to me where this guy reviews boots. His schtick is cutting boots in half. I had to watch because YouTube told me to.

In one of his videos, he cuts a croc in half to see what is inside. Spoiler: the inside of crocs are exactly what you think they are. If you are in the market for some really unsurprising media, enjoy:



That said... if you need a new pair of boots his comparison videos my have value!


----------



## captaincaed

Luftmensch said:


> But this _*is*_ an unpopular opinions thread... dare I ask... is that because in those 20 years you only figured out how to close Vim twice?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that because emacs == vim??
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ;; Enable Evil
> (require 'evil)
> (evil-mode 1)
> 
> 
> ... a mediocre joke that 3 people will appreciate


I'm not kidding when I say I wish I got the joke.


----------



## big_adventure

captaincaed said:


> I'm not kidding when I say I wish I got the joke.



Evil is a set of different settings for emacs. This set of commands loads the module and sets the mode. Evil puts vi commands into emacs.


----------



## esoo

Luftmensch said:


> But this _*is*_ an unpopular opinions thread... dare I ask... is that because in those 20 years you only figured out how to close Vim twice?



:x!

How about this:


Code:


rm -rf / --no-preserve-root


Make sure you have backups.....


----------



## Lars

esoo said:


> Make sure you have backups.....


Real men don't have backups..


..they just cry themselves to sleep at night..


----------



## esoo

Lars said:


> Real men don't have backups..
> 
> 
> ..they just cry themselves to sleep at night..



Other part of my day job is backups. I never imagined I'd be dealing with the backup footprint I currently have.


----------



## big_adventure

esoo said:


> :x!
> 
> How about this:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> rm -rf / --no-preserve-root
> 
> 
> Make sure you have backups.....



I did something similar. I was configuring a couple of FTP gateways for a client. I had a work directory set up to do the build, complete with the various builds and patches and whatnot, plus setting up all of the quotas and client controls and junk. I went to delete the work area, "rm -r ." I didn't realize that there were some RO files. So, frustrated, I ran it again... and double tapped the "." When the operation took more than a few seconds I realized and escaped it. Having only deleted half of /. Ooops.

Fortunately, the other one was there and I just copied everything back.


----------



## Luftmensch

captaincaed said:


> I'm not kidding when I say I wish I got the joke.



It is barely worth a laugh!

@big_adventure has it. Evil mode is basically a vi(m) emulator in emacs. The code i included enables it in Emacs.

Here is an editor rant for no reason...

In hacker culture there is an on-going (good humoured) editor war: Emacs vs Vim. The two have converged over time and offer similar functionality. They both have massive communities with lots of extensions. Their main difference is philosophical. Emacs largely operates off key-chords or bindings (like most applications' hotkeys) whereas Vi(m) has a modal interface - key presses mean different things depending on what mode you are in.

Emacs is often teased for containing everything but the kitchen sink (being bloated) - this is pretty much the punch line of the XKCD cartoon you linked to. A golden oldie is that "emacs is a great operating system, lacking only a decent editor" - which is almost double funny given that it has Evil mode .




Luftmensch said:


> It puts parentheses... everywhere... but it can get you out of a bind...



I also made two lame jokes here... Emacs runs on Lisp - one of the oldest high-level languages. The code is written in S-expression, which I find syntactically ugly. Basically you get parenteses everywhere (my first joke). Randall made a better joke about this:






The second 'joke' was word play on 'bind' - again from the notorious Emacs keybindings... Perhaps I should have said "get you into a bind"?





captaincaed said:


> all I know is Rstudio, which is a pretty killer IDE



Vim and Emacs are both extremely powerful. They lack the slickness of IDE's but offer much of the same functionality. Like programming, getting good at either is a long journey that yields only as much as you put into it. It is tempting to grab a popular configuration off the internet and forget about the settings... but this is their strength. They are best when you configure them to your productivity needs.

They truly shine if you edit source code across multiple languages. You can effectively combine 5 IDEs into one - with common bindings/modes/patterns. They both offer more exotic editing/navigation (which IDEs often lack) that free you from the mouse more. They can be quite addictive once they soak into your habits.

If coding is not a big part of your day, or you don't switch between lots of languages... they probably arent worth investing the time to learn. The learning curve can be quite steep/frustrating.


----------



## Luftmensch

esoo said:


> How about this:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> rm -rf / --no-preserve-root





(hey @rmrf... you've been tagged!)




esoo said:


> Make sure you have backups.....



Unpopular opinion: a great way to backup your computer is using sequential tar files. 'backup_01.tar.gz' for the first backup... 'backup_02.tar.gz' for the second backup... and so on. Keep these on the main drive.

I tried your code riddle in a root shell and now I don't have anything... not even my backups 


Sent from myPhone


----------



## esoo

big_adventure said:


> I did something similar. I was configuring a couple of FTP gateways for a client. I had a work directory set up to do the build, complete with the various builds and patches and whatnot, plus setting up all of the quotas and client controls and junk. I went to delete the work area, "rm -r ." I didn't realize that there were some RO files. So, frustrated, I ran it again... and double tapped the "." When the operation took more than a few seconds I realized and escaped it. Having only deleted half of /. Ooops.
> 
> Fortunately, the other one was there and I just copied everything back.



CentOS 7 (the only play machine I have right now), refuses rm -rf . or rm -rf ..

rm -rf * from root works though.


----------



## M1k3




----------



## big_adventure

esoo said:


> CentOS 7 (the only play machine I have right now), refuses rm -rf . or rm -rf ..
> 
> rm -rf * from root works though.



I love that they thought to block out . and .. but left the splat. Nice one, guys.

This was an age and a day ago - Solaris 10 on (well, obviously) Sun hardware. No such protection from CKIEs.


----------



## big_adventure

Luftmensch said:


> I also made two lame jokes here... Emacs runs on Lisp - one of the oldest high-level languages. The code is written in S-expression, which I find syntactically ugly. Basically you get parenteses everywhere (my first joke). Randall made a better joke about this:



The oldest Lisp joke is still the best: what does Lisp stand for? Lost In Stupid Parentheses. And you are.


----------



## esoo

big_adventure said:


> I love that they thought to block out . and .. but left the splat. Nice one, guys.
> 
> This was an age and a day ago - Solaris 10 on (well, obviously) Sun hardware. No such protection from CKIEs.



Well splat is actually valid depending on where you are in the tree. But they could do a check if you're at / and block it and require the flag.

I've been doing this long enough to know to do "ls -l" before doing a rm -rf on anything.


----------



## captaincaed

Luftmensch said:


> They truly shine if you edit source code across multiple languages. You can effectively combine 5 IDEs into one - with common bindings/modes/patterns. They both offer more exotic editing/navigation (which IDEs often lack) that free you from the mouse more. They can be quite addictive once they soak into your habits.



Yeah, the more time in front of a keyboard, the fussier I am about my setup, I could see this as a huge win. God I love this little infight whenever I see it in the wild. The "paper or plastic" of the computing world.

@M1k3 right you are. 

Pineapple pepperoni pizza is godlike, and balances all five tastebud flavors into a harmonious umami better than any other offering. All other options are too salt/grease forward. Fight me.


----------



## captaincaed

Behold the glory. Salty, sweet, spicy, tangy, umami, crispy. Delicious. 




Canadian bacon is for communists and those who were "just helping the sheep over the fence"


----------



## spaceconvoy

corn and potato pizza with toasted mayo is really good in its own way. if chicago pizza can be considered pizza, than almost anything goes


----------



## esoo

A coworker led me to the beauty that is a spicy potato pizza....


----------



## captaincaed

spaceconvoy said:


> corn and potato pizza with toasted mayo


----------



## ian

captaincaed said:


>



What’s wrong with that? Corn and potato are A+ toppings.

Also, w t f is toasted mayo? Do you mean you put mayo on the pizza and it gets toasted a bit? In that case, ok.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Home cooks being so paranoid about chicken that they have separate cutting boards is nuts. Convenience and speed so you can keep chopping without cleanup I get and can get, _uh hum_, on board with but all these folks buying three, four, or more cutting boards dedicated to different things just because of a fear of cross contamination is crazy.

Soap. It works.


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Home cooks being so paranoid about chicken that they have separate cutting boards is nuts. Convenience and speed so you can keep chopping without cleanup I get and can get, _uh hum_, on board with but all these folks buying three, four, or more cutting boards dedicated to different things just because of a fear of cross contamination is crazy.
> 
> Soap. It works.


Cut non-meat stuff first. Then any previous cooked stuff, if applicable. Then raw meat.

Eazy peazy, lemon squeezy. Into the dish washy we go. (Unless the cutting board is wood or warps easy)


----------



## Dhoff

OT:

Carbon knives are smelly and provide little benefit over stainless


----------



## daveb

Dhoff said:


> OT:
> 
> Carbon knives are smelly and provide no, zoppo, nada, benefit over stainless



FTFY


----------



## ian

Shiny knives are ugly


----------



## Lars

This thread has run it's course.


----------



## Dhoff

Lars said:


> This thread has run it's course.



You heretic! that has to be one of the most unpopular opinions, making it one of the most OT replies. Thereby you've created a paradox in strengthening the value of the thread continuing while at the same time trying to call it dead!

I might just burst a brainy blood vessel here


----------



## esoo

SKD12 is the best knife steel.


----------



## spaceconvoy

ian said:


> Also, w t f is toasted mayo? Do you mean you put mayo on the pizza and it gets toasted a bit? In that case, ok.







It's a Japanese thing


----------



## Luftmensch

ian said:


> Also, w t f is toasted mayo?


----------



## AT5760

Green olives are the only vegetable that should ever go on a pizza.


----------



## BillHanna

Onions aren’t vegetables?


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

AT5760 said:


> Green olives are the only vegetable that should ever go on a pizza.



phew thank god Pineapple is a fruit


----------



## Luftmensch

AT5760 said:


> Green olives are the only vegetable



Olives are a vegetable?? Thats an unpopular opinion


----------



## M1k3

AT5760 said:


> Green olives are the only vegetable that should ever go on a pizza.





nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> phew thank god Pineapple is a fruit


*Olives*, plums, tomatoes, artichokes and cucumbers are fruit.


----------



## Dhoff

M1k3 said:


> *Olives*, plums, tomatoes, artichokes and cucumbers are fruit.



Funny thing is fruit has a clear definition botanically. It must contain mature seeds and be edible (vastly simplified and lacking the nuances). This is not to say there are other definitions e.g. in culinary relation.

Under this definition, the olives, plums tomatoes and cucumbers are indeed fruit. the Artichokes on the other hand is a vegetable since it does not belong as a fruit not having mature seeds, but being the immature "flower".

Vegetable on the other hand is a trashbin of edibles including some that are also fruits.

Just to go completely biologist on ya all:

Coconuts are not nuts, they are stone fruit.
Cucumbers are berries
Strawberries are an aggregate fruit, being multiple tiny flowers inside what we call a flower that then each form tiny individual fruits.

*I wish to thank you all for triggering my latent nightmares and trauma from botanical class, where the most interesting thing I found was a spider I caught and examined while the speaker rambled on*

I have now become the rambler.


----------



## M1k3

Convertible Serbian Cleaver > Slåsskniv > Serbian Cleaver > Gyuto > Puukko > Fredligkniv > Nakiri.


----------



## IsoJ

M1k3 said:


> Convertible Serbian Cleaver > Slåsskniv > Serbian Cleaver > gyuto > fredligkniv > Nakiri>Lasers and 210s


FIFY


----------



## AT5760

Fine! Green olives are the only FRUIT or vegetable that should ever go on a pizza.


----------



## esoo

AT5760 said:


> Fine! Green olives are the only FRUIT or vegetable that should ever go on a pizza.



Considering tomatoes are fruit, I guess you want to get rid of the fruit sauce on the pizza as well?


----------



## AT5760

Nope. Tomato sauce is part of the pizza. I’m only talking about toppings.


----------



## big_adventure

Dhoff said:


> Coconuts are not nuts, they are stone fruit.



Enjoy this video then...


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Stone Fruit. Now that's a band name.


----------



## BillHanna

Stoned Fruit


----------



## parbaked

Stoned Fruits


----------



## Grayswandir

Dhoff said:


> OT:
> 
> Carbon knives are smelly and provide little benefit over stainless



They're easier to sharpen (or used to be until better stainless steels were developed), get sharper then most stainless steels (or used to, until better stainless steels were developed), and they have courage and pluck!


----------



## M1k3

Grayswandir said:


> They're easier to sharpen (or used to be until better stainless steels were developed), get sharper then most stainless steels (or used to, until better stainless steels were developed), and they have courage and pluck!


----------



## Luftmensch

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 125840



Hey @M1k3, you got 18 minutes?

If youre a fan of storytelling humour, Chappelle has gone postmodern:



ends in a justified, unpopular opinion...


----------



## daveb

Science says:


M1k3 said:


> *Olives*, plums, tomatoes, artichokes and cucumbers are fruit.



Chefs know not to put them in a fruit salad


----------



## Dhoff

Grayswandir said:


> They're easier to sharpen (or used to be until better stainless steels were developed), get sharper then most stainless steels (or used to, until better stainless steels were developed), and they have courage and pluck!



Carbon knives are actually meditation tools as you need to sharpen them all the time.

Ok... I admit I'm tryharding to make this unpopular enough.


----------



## Grayswandir

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 126100



Hehe!

I'm in deep man, I'm a card carrying member of the carbon steel knife cult. I was just preempting those silly stainless steel hipsters that were bound pipe up and cut into my mini diatribe and tell us all how superior modern stainless steels are compared to our dirty, smelly, barbaric and outdated carbon steel blades.


----------



## btbyrd

Yeah, those people don't exist. Or if they do, they're over on forums dedicated to folding knives, EDC, and guns.


----------



## Dhoff

Grayswandir said:


> Hehe!
> 
> I'm in deep man, I'm a card carrying member of the carbon steel knife cult. I was just preempting those silly stainless steel hipsters that were bound pipe up and cut into my mini diatribe and tell us all how superior modern stainless steels are compared to our dirty, smelly, barbaric and outdated carbon steel blades.


----------



## ian

Dhoff said:


> View attachment 126285



Ain’t nothing worse than some know-it-all saying they know how to improve your life.


----------



## Migraine

Carbon knives are better because patina is cool.


----------



## daveb

Patina = Managed rust


----------



## Migraine

=cool


----------



## Grayswandir

ian said:


> Ain’t nothing worse than some know-it-all saying they know how to improve your life.


Especially if the word "hack" is used. I never want to hear my surgeon talking about some new hack he learned right before I go under the knife!


----------



## tcmx3

Grayswandir said:


> Especially if the word "hack" is used. I never want to hear my surgeon talking about some new hack he learned right before I go under the knife!



ever notice how people who use that word are always on linked in reposting stuff liek: 

13 hacks to supercharge your day:
1. dont sleep. you only have 24 hours in a day, every hour you sleep you're not out there hustling!
2. dont eat. in addition to wasting time, you waste money too. terrible.
3. weekends? more like workends! keep your spreadsheets on your phone so you can corporate while you corporate! your boss will totally invite you to the his next round of gold

etc


----------



## captaincaed

Jigs make sharper edges.


----------



## BillHanna

Someone please invite me to their next round of gold.


----------



## Grayswandir

tcmx3 said:


> ever notice how people who use that word are always on linked in reposting stuff liek:
> 
> 13 hacks to supercharge your day:
> 1. dont sleep. you only have 24 hours in a day, every hour you sleep you're not out there hustling!
> 2. dont eat. in addition to wasting time, you waste money too. terrible.
> 3. weekends? more like workends! keep your spreadsheets on your phone so you can corporate while you corporate! your boss will totally invite you to the his next round of gold
> 
> etc



I couldn't take being around someone like that. They'd push me over the edge.


----------



## Migraine

captaincaed said:


> Jigs make sharper edges.


Who is Jigs?


----------



## WiriWiri

People who believe in homeopathy are not harmless alternative types that should be left in peace. These people honestly believe that water has a memory and that treatment becomes more potent through dilution. 

Their wholesale rejection of logic and common sense represents a threat to humanity. They should be mocked and forcibly isolated to neverending folk/psytrance concentration raves until they can bother nobody else with their foolishness.


----------



## TSF415

WiriWiri said:


> People who believe in homeopathy are not harmless alternative types that should be left in peace. These people honestly believe that water has a memory and that treatment becomes more potent through dilution.
> 
> Their wholesale rejection of logic and common sense represents a threat to humanity. They should be mocked and forcibly isolated to neverending folk/psytrance concentration raves until they can bother nobody else with their foolishness.



That's a little aggressive. Did you favorite store run out of Diet Coke or something?


----------



## WiriWiri

I guess so, Psytrance is the worst kind of repetitive torture after all, but this is the unpopular opinions thread ffs. 

PS. If you do believe in homeopathy I have some magic beans to sell you (and a Shig disguised as a Shun)


----------



## TSF415

WiriWiri said:


> I guess so, Psytrance is the worst kind of repetitive torture after all, but this is the unpopular opinions thread ffs.
> 
> PS. If you do believe in homeopathy I have some magic beans to sell you (and a Shig disguised as a Shun)



magic mushrooms and we might have a deal.


----------



## WiriWiri

TSF415 said:


> magic mushrooms and we might have a deal.



Done. You can either choose from:
a) The bag you just indirectly reminded me of, the one I hastily shoved in the spare room wardrobe after a mate gave me a surprise bonus gift a few months back. I’m now really hoping they weren’t of the freshly picked variety
b) A vial of water that I’ve shook a minuscule fragment of mushroom in and then diluted twohundredfold, whilst adhering to the appropriate homeopathic processes. It’ll be much stronger in potency, apparently


----------



## ian

tcmx3 said:


> ever notice how people who use that word are always on linked in reposting stuff liek:
> 
> 13 hacks to supercharge your day:
> 1. dont sleep. you only have 24 hours in a day, every hour you sleep you're not out there hustling!
> 2. dont eat. in addition to wasting time, you waste money too. terrible.
> 3. weekends? more like workends! keep your spreadsheets on your phone so you can corporate while you corporate! your boss will totally invite you to the his next round of gold
> 
> etc



I’ve seen three types of “hacks”: the harmful kind that you mentioned, the stupid kind that doesn’t actually save you any effort, and the useful stuff that normal people just call common sense.

“Brushing your teeth! Master this great tooth hack in 4 easy steps and prevent cavities, discoloration and the gum disease gingivitis!!!”


----------



## M1k3

tcmx3 said:


> ever notice how people who use that word are always on linked in reposting stuff liek:
> 
> 13 hacks to supercharge your day:
> 1. dont sleep. you only have 24 hours in a day, every hour you sleep you're not out there hustling!
> 2. dont eat. in addition to wasting time, you waste money too. terrible.
> 3. weekends? more like workends! keep your spreadsheets on your phone so you can corporate while you corporate! your boss will totally invite you to the his next round of gold
> 
> etc


Check out this hack that'll revolutionize your life with one little change that will supercharge your workflow and workends!


----------



## daveb

Yeah. Takes longer to eff with the lid than it does to just cut them in half under your palm.


----------



## M1k3

daveb said:


> Yeah. Takes longer to eff with the lid than it does to just cut them in half under your palm.


I used plates that were large enough to hold 1 package on them. Super quick.


----------



## ian

Yea, that’s a good one actually. I do them under my palm tho since I’m never doing that many. Too bad the guy in the example vid completely destroys the tomatoes in the process.


----------



## M1k3

Save the good content for the YouTube awesome thread!


----------



## BillHanna

This is prolly popular but: Just cook your own steak. You will only be disappointed buying out. And the black garlic mash was uninspired as well.


----------



## ian

Mmmmm black garlic.


----------



## panda

TSF415 said:


> That's a little aggressive. Did you favorite store run out of Diet Coke or something?


x2


----------



## panda

daveb said:


> Yeah. Takes longer to eff with the lid than it does to just cut them in half under your palm.


mac bread knife perfect for this, line em up and go at it


----------



## WiriWiri

panda said:


> x2



Pah. Meek people are to be laughed at, especially on this opinionated thread. Isn’t honesty next to godliness? Pulling punches is a sin


----------



## ian

Fwiw, I also think this tendancy toward pseudoscience is dangerous. It’s not very far from holisticism(?) to vaccine skepticism. That the latter is a problem became extra clear recently, but i also remember when my son was born 6 yrs ago there were all these people in medically-adjacent professions (chiropractors, birthing-class teachers) who were trying to convince us to change the gov’t suggested schedule for vaccinations with no real evidence to back up their assertions. I think it’s likely these are the same people that are taking placebos all the time instead of real meds.


----------



## AT5760

BillHanna said:


> Just cook your own steak.



Not as unpopular as you might think. My wife and I had that discussion last night when talking about places to go for our anniversary.


----------



## WiriWiri

ian said:


> Fwiw, I also think this tendancy toward pseudoscience is dangerous. It’s not very far from holisticism(?) to vaccine skepticism. That the latter is a problem became extra clear recently, but i also remember when my son was born 6 yrs ago there were all these people in medically-adjacent professions (chiropractors, birthing-class teachers) who were trying to convince us to change the gov’t suggested schedule for vaccinations with no real evidence to back up their assertions. I think it’s likely these are the same people that are taking placebos all the time instead of real meds.



FWIW, I was clearly on a bit of a justified troll given the thread title, but there‘s a vaguely serious point in there.

Frankly I don‘t care what mystical chakric bollocks people buy into. I also strongly suspect that many of the people embracing homeopathic therapies haven‘t done any research on the ludicrous nature of homeopathy and its hundreds of years of laughable quackery, they just buy it becomes it seems more ‘natural’ somehow. That said, showing your opposition to ‘big pharma’ by becoming a thought-free sucker for any old nonsense isn‘t exactly creditworthy either. We know where that leads


----------



## WiriWiri

Anyway, I feel vaguely guilty for taking this thread down a more serious alley, so let‘s throw in a less controversial unpopular opinion. Surely this can‘t offend anyone:

The LOTR books are a hyperextended, tedious dirge not worth bothering with, and Tolkien is the worst kind of odious bore. I get that he wrote the convention for much of the subsequent fantasy genre, but the magic ring, sword, little people shite remains trite and overfamiliar whichever way you cut it. There’s a fair bit of imagination, but the laboured prose and dull focus on family backstory/ unnecessary scripting of other fictional languages comes across like a self-congratulory wankfest, the academic equivalent of a progrock guitar solo.

And you don’t fool me with all that masked talk of dark, light and barbaric orcs from over yonder JRR-boy. I understand that you liked Britain as it used to be and you had Christian pastoral influences aplenty, but your pal Enid Blyton covered much the same ground in her books and much more concisely as well. And her story about the golliwogs ransacking toytown and pulling Noddy’s pants down had more slapstick comedy to boot.


----------



## M1k3

The best movie franchise is Jackass.


----------



## WiriWiri

The unreleased Jackass X Home Alone reboot was a concept ahead of its time admittedly, but I agree that franchise is a monster.


----------



## Migraine

WiriWiri said:


> Anyway, I feel vaguely guilty for taking this thread down a more serious alley, so let‘s throw in a less controversial unpopular opinion. Surely this can‘t offend anyone:
> 
> The LOTR books are a hyperextended, tedious dirge not worth bothering with, and Tolkien is the worst kind of odious bore. I get that he wrote the convention for much of the subsequent fantasy genre, but the magic ring, sword, little people shite remains trite and overfamiliar whichever way you cut it. There’s a fair bit of imagination, but the laboured prose and dull focus on family backstory/ unnecessary scripting of other fictional languages comes across like a self-congratulory wankfest, the academic equivalent of a progrock guitar solo.
> 
> And you don’t fool me with all that masked talk of dark, light and barbaric orcs from over yonder JRR-boy. I understand that you liked Britain as it used to be and you had Christian pastoral influences aplenty, but your pal Enid Blyton covered much the same ground in her books and much more concisely as well. And her story about the golliwogs ransacking toytown and pulling Noddy’s pants down had more slapstick comedy to boot.


Lol if you think that about LOTRs you'd have an actual aneurysm with the Silmarillion.


----------



## big_adventure

Migraine said:


> Lol if you think that about LOTRs you'd have an actual aneurysm with the Silmarillion.



So much so.


----------



## juice

WiriWiri said:


> The LOTR books are a hyperextended, tedious dirge not worth bothering with, and Tolkien is the worst kind of odious bore. I get that he wrote the convention for much of the subsequent fantasy genre, but the magic ring, sword, little people shite remains trite and overfamiliar whichever way you cut it. There’s a fair bit of imagination, but the laboured prose and dull focus on family backstory/ unnecessary scripting of other fictional languages comes across like a self-congratulory wankfest, the academic equivalent of a progrock guitar solo.



+1000



Migraine said:


> you'd have an actual aneurysm with the Silmarillion.



Which was the first Tolkien I tried to read...


----------



## WiriWiri

Migraine said:


> Lol if you think that about LOTRs you'd have an actual aneurysm with the Silmarillion.



Aneurysm? Confronted by that mountainous pile of Celtic-inspired piffle it‘s near impossible not to question the whole point of human existence, the dull plod of detail draining any joy out of life.

You can‘t explode or get angry to dry Tolkien - your life force and very spine eventually liquifies through oppressive tedium, like some deadly silent coma-inducing Ebola variant.


----------



## daveb

LOTR: Long or Other Term Relationship?


----------



## ian

daveb said:


> Long or Other Term Relationship(s)





WiriWiri said:


> are a hyperextended, tedious dirge not worth bothering with


----------



## labor of love

Describing how a knife cuts as being “better than sex” says a lot about your sex life.


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> Describing how a knife cuts as being “better than sex” says a lot about your sex life.


☠


----------



## panda

nerd level is mega strong in this thread.


----------



## M1k3

Jimmy Pop > John Lennon


----------



## BillHanna




----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Whenever I get asked, "Beatles or the Stones?" I answer AC/DC.


----------



## WiriWiri

Elton John Is abusing his ’national treasure‘ status and now takes the piss out of the public by murdering his own songs in the style of a particularly awful pub performer. He also apparently sings with three hard boiled eggs nestled in each cheek as an added jape

I can‘t think of any other explanation for this anyhow


----------



## Helicon

WiriWiri said:


> Elton John Is abusing his ’national treasure‘ status and now takes the piss out of the public by murdering his own songs in the style of a particularly awful pub performer. He also apparently sings with three hard boiled eggs nestled in each cheek as an added jape
> 
> I can‘t think of any other explanation for this anyhow



Oof. Now I'm concerned that he's suffered a recent stroke or had major dental surgery and decided to perform before the lingering effects of novocaine wore off. WTAF


----------



## WiriWiri

Helicon said:


> Oof. Now I'm concerned that he's suffered a recent stroke or had major dental surgery and decided to perform before the lingering effects of novocaine wore off. WTAF



I did consider that, but it‘s been in circulation for over a year (including mockery from Charlie Brooker) and nobody’s mentioned anything, albeit it‘s suspiciously difficult to find online for something so funny. It cheers me up every time I hear those catchy nasal tones anyway.

Obviously the logical extension here is to blame Princess Di for all this. Elton wouldn’t be spared ridicule if it wasn‘t for that connection eh?

I could give an unpopular opinion about Princess Di, Queen of Hearts to us Brits apparently, but I believe that to be a step too far. Despite being a board overstacked with big men with knives, it’s actually a bit gentle and very polite here.


----------



## Helicon

WiriWiri said:


> I did consider that, but it‘s been in circulation for over a year (including mockery from Charlie Brooker) and nobody’s mentioned anything, albeit it‘s suspiciously difficult to find online for something so funny. It cheers me up every time I hear those catchy nasal tones anyway.
> 
> Obviously the logical extension here is to blame Princess Di for all this. Elton wouldn’t be spared ridicule if it wasn‘t for that connection eh?
> 
> I could give an unpopular opinion about Princess Di, Queen of Hearts to us Brits apparently, but I believe that to be a step too far. Despite being a board overstacked with big men with knives, it’s actually a bit gentle and very polite here.


It's probably a fair assessment of Elton's work to acknowledge that he peaked in the early 70s and has been largely coasting since. Although I still find it deeply disturbing that no one rang 0118 999 881 999 119 7253 on his behalf when they first watched that clip.


----------



## esoo

WiriWiri said:


> Elton John Is abusing his ’national treasure‘ status and now takes the piss out of the public by murdering his own songs in the style of a particularly awful pub performer. He also apparently sings with three hard boiled eggs nestled in each cheek as an added jape
> 
> I can‘t think of any other explanation for this anyhow




The explanation is that it is cover, and not Elton John. The guy has tried to sync his own audio over a real Elton video.


----------



## Helicon

esoo said:


> The explanation is that it is cover, and not Elton John. The guy has tried to sync his own audio over a real Elton video.


I don't think that's the case, actually. Take a listen:


----------



## WiriWiri

esoo said:


> The explanation is that it is cover, and not Elton John. The guy has tried to sync his own audio over a real Elton video.



I realise that it’s so awful as to seem implausible, the same remarkable footage (without subtitles) and audio was shown on national tv for some Charity telethon and subsequently on Charlie Brooker’s review type show a few months later,

it is so hard to believe and initially was so difficult to find online that i began to doubt myself. Will try and find another link without the annoying subtitles, but that **** is real.


----------



## esoo

WiriWiri said:


> I realise that it’s so awful as to seem implausible, the same remarkable footage (without subtitles) and audio was shown on national tv for some Charity telethon and subsequently on Charlie Brooker’s review type show a few months later,
> 
> it is so hard to believe and initially was so difficult to find online that i began to doubt myself. Will try and find another link without the annoying subtitles, but that **** is real.



I was calling it a cover as the title on the youtube called it a cover. As well, in part as the audio for the piano looked out of sync.

It could also be that this shows up how bad his voice sounds without a professional sound engineer to balance out the mic.


----------



## big_adventure

WiriWiri said:


> I could give an unpopular opinion about Princess Di, Queen of Hearts to us Brits apparently, but I believe that to be a step too far. Despite being a board overstacked with big men with knives, it’s actually a bit gentle and very polite here.



Screw Princess Di. ***** cost me an afternoon of watching football in a sports bar, because all of the US networks spent all ***** day covering her death rather than televising the games. She's a British nobleperson. Why is that something that any non-British person would care about at all? She used money that she didn't earn to help some charities - whoop-dee-****ing-doo. I don't expect that they'll cancel a day of televised football when Bill Gates kicks it, and that dude has done more for charities, the poor, the downtrodden and the world in an average Tuesday afternoon than Diana did in her entire life.


----------



## WiriWiri

esoo said:


> I was calling it a cover as the title on the youtube called it a cover. As well, in part as the audio for the piano looked out of sync.
> 
> It could also be that this shows up how bad his voice sounds without a professional sound engineer to balance out the mic.



Ok, here‘s some more footage via a link from NME. It was the Beckham associated Oneworld shindig apparently, so he was clearly bringing his A game.

I honesty found it too hard to believe at first too, but that‘s what _they_ want you to think


----------



## spaceconvoy

Good for Elton, I think he looks great and I wish I had his energy even though I'm a few decades younger. I heard Paul Simon perform in his early sixties and it was like watching a corpse.  Elton 

And  Lady Di  you don't love people for the work they do but for who they are (also Bill Gates is probably a pedophile)


----------



## Lars

spaceconvoy said:


> Good for Elton, I think he looks great and I wish I had his energy even though I'm a few decades younger. I heard Paul Simon perform in his early sixties and it was like watching a corpse. ❤ Elton ❤



If you haven't been there already, his biography "Me" is an awesome read.


----------



## btbyrd

We watched that Elton performance live on broadcast TV for the COVID relief concert, and my wife and I were both like "*** did we just watch?". 

Every once in a while, out of the blue, one of us will bust out a slurred and stupid "I'M SDILL SDANDING!" just for laughs.


----------



## tcmx3

At the risk of repeating myself, stating in an ad how much you paid for something is wack.

Also asking basically new price for a knife you used is ludicrous IMO. Even a NIB knife should be discounted from retail.


----------



## BillHanna




----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> View attachment 126851


----------



## big_adventure

Ku finishes are very overrated. Bad for passage through produce and for food release, impossible to maintain/restore if they get scratched.


----------



## Michi

parbaked said:


> Stoned Fruits


Stone fruit nutcases…


----------



## Grayswandir

big_adventure said:


> Ku finishes are very overrated. Bad for passage through produce and for food release, impossible to maintain/restore if they get scratched.



Blasphemer!


----------



## jwthaparc

SolidSnake03 said:


> Yeah took me a lot of money and time but so far I can say the C's have it down really well but outside that it gets really dicey as to what performs at all.
> 
> C's being Carter, Catcheside and Cris (Anderson)


What about the three b's? Big brown, and bear


----------



## jwthaparc

captaincaed said:


> All square knives are for squares


@nakiriknaifuwaifu


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Everyone talks mad shyt about rectangles, but pull one out with the same length as their gyutos and they start crying cuz their wrists are weak and their balls workstation's too small


----------



## stringer

I need to find a new old bastard to fix up. All of mine have shipped out to better homes


----------



## SolidSnake03

jwthaparc said:


> What about the three b's? Big brown, and bear



Haven’t owned or used one so can’t say but his stones are badass. Have his vitrified diamond 400 and it’s an absolutely monster, it’s wonderful


----------



## Rangen

SolidSnake03 said:


> Have his vitrified diamond 400 and it’s an absolutely monster, it’s wonderful



Same. Agreed.


----------



## jwthaparc

SolidSnake03 said:


> Haven’t owned or used one so can’t say but his stones are badass. Have his vitrified diamond 400 and it’s an absolutely monster, it’s wonderful


Well I know he uses amazing steels, and grinds super thin, to get the most out of the steel he uses. Which I like the idea of.


----------



## Rangen

Having accidentally posted a popular opinion, I feel a certain obligation to post an unpopular one.

Everyone who uses carbon steel knives a lot should move to the desert.

I did. No oiling your knives. A quick dry with a towel and a wave in the air, and you're good to go. I've almost forgotten what rust looks like.


----------



## jwthaparc

I might as well do the same. 

Once you get past the 150 usd point for the most part you are wasting your money on knives. You can get any decently heat treated steel, with on ok composition to perform quite well. You just need to know how to thin, and sharpen.


----------



## M1k3

Rangen said:


> Having accidentally posted a popular opinion, I feel a certain obligation to post an unpopular one.
> 
> Everyone who uses carbon steel knives a lot should move to the desert.
> 
> I did. No oiling your knives. A quick dry with a towel and a wave in the air, and you're good to go. I've almost forgotten what rust looks like.


I live near the coast. 
Work near the beach. 



No rust on wrought iron or the carbon steel core.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

9" tongs are superior to 12" tongs.


----------



## Rangen

HumbleHomeCook said:


> 9" tongs are superior to 12" tongs.



You are not getting your charcoal hot enough.


----------



## rickbern

HumbleHomeCook said:


> 9" tongs are superior to 12" tongs.


7” tongs are better than both


----------



## daveb

Rosle tongs are the only tongs. Them above are line cook toys. Click, Click.


----------



## Jovidah

What's so good about the Rösle ones (genuine question)? Saw them on sale at Amazon yesterday (40 cm variant for 15 bucks) but even at that price point I was struggling to justify it... so far all my dirt cheap ones seem to do what I need them to do just fine.


----------



## daveb

I didn't get the high price either - until I bought a pair. Now I have several and at least one is always in my bag.

They are much stronger than the cheap ones. It's not uncommon for me to hold a hot product with tongs on one side and towel on the other. Being confident in their capabilities is a large part of the reason I buy them. The tips stay together. The cheap ones I found myself having to realign the tips so they would hold anything throughout their life expectancy. And finally the best part is how they stay closed when you close them upright and open when you squeeze them while they are oriented down. Completely one handed. Close them, lay them down, they stay out of the way. Pick them up, open them, use them then repeat. Buy one pair and that's all you'll be buying.


----------



## rickbern

daveb said:


> I didn't get the high price either - until I bought a pair. Now I have several and at least one is always in my bag.
> 
> They are much stronger than the cheap ones. It's not uncommon for me to hold a hot product with tongs on one side and towel on the other. Being confident in their capabilities is a large part of the reason I buy them. The tips stay together. The cheap ones I found myself having to realign the tips so they would hold anything throughout their life expectancy. And finally the best part is how they stay closed when you close them upright and open when you squeeze them while they are oriented down. Completely one handed. Close them, lay them down, they stay out of the way. Pick them up, open them, use them then repeat. Buy one pair and that's all you'll be buying.


Who you calling a line cook?

Different in a home kitchen. I’ve never had one go out of whack and they have a place to live. The larger ones are probably 20 years old.


----------



## daveb

I guess if you've never driven anything but a Yugo you'll think it's a pretty good car  

The "Y" veg peeler and plating tongs are worth every dime as well.


----------



## BillHanna

I got a Y peeler as a throw in with a knife.


The knife is sold.


----------



## Jovidah

I actually don't like the Y peelers... got an Oxo one becuase it was supposed to be good but I actually prefer the cheaper U model ones (the pretty common Swiss one, originally called Rex or something but sold under a million rebrands).
Ordered the Rösle ones... right now they're half-price so I might as well give it a go.

Plating tongs are not for me. I already consider it 'going out of my way on presentation' when we're not just eating off the cutting board...


----------



## daveb

Can't find the tongs as a Prime Day thing.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Rangen said:


> You are not getting your charcoal hot enough.




If you can't take the heat...


----------



## Jovidah

Amazon Germany. Sorry to get your hopes up... For some reason Amazon has different sales in every country. It's the main reason I'm holding on to my Amazon GE subscription, because the Dutch sales are always crap.


----------



## cawilson6072

I can’t quit my J.A. Henckels Twin Signature 7” Chef Knife. Like my ‘07 F150 - it’s worth so much more to me than it’s perceived value.


----------



## Rangen

Buying Rösle tongs is a terrible experience. It makes you never want to use your other tongs. And just _what _am I supposed to use those other tongs for?

...Well?

Update: OK, picking up dog turds in the yard is one possible use.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Rangen said:


> You are not getting your charcoal hot enough.




DAMNIT!

Damnit.

Damnit...

I'm currently grilling over hot coals and...

I mean, I have a nice glove but without it...

You're right...

But I mean, the glove...


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

HumbleHomeCook said:


> DAMNIT!
> 
> Damnit.
> 
> Damnit...
> 
> I'm currently grilling over hot coals and...
> 
> I mean, I have a nice glove but without it...
> 
> You're right...
> 
> But I mean, the glove...


----------



## rickbern

daveb said:


> I guess if you've never driven anything but a Yugo you'll think it's a pretty good car
> 
> The "Y" veg peeler and plating tongs are worth every dime as well.


If I get one of those plating tongs can I make my presentation look as good as @Lars ?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

applepieforbreakfast said:


>



Actually I do and it turns out the longer ones are better for some _very specific_ applications but the 9" are still overall superior. And only crazy people use 7" tongs.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Why is does every gyuto now have the same hockey stick profile?

Y'all know what I'm talking about, gyutos that are nearly dead flat from the heel to midpoint, then some gentle curve, increasing exponentially towards the tip. Who on god's green earth feels comfortable raising their elbow high enough for the tip to contact the board? Am I just short with a too-tall cutting board??

The perfect gyuto would have a k-tip edge profile without the fugly k-tip, except no one makes them.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

spaceconvoy said:


> Why is does every gyuto now have the same hockey stick profile?
> 
> Y'all know what I'm talking about, gyutos that are nearly dead flat from the heel to midpoint, then some gentle curve, increasing exponentially towards the tip. Who on god's green earth feels comfortable raising their elbow high enough for the tip to contact the board? Am I just short with a too-tall cutting board??



Sort of like a Zwilling Kramer?


----------



## tostadas

spaceconvoy said:


> Why is does every gyuto now have the same hockey stick profile?
> 
> Y'all know what I'm talking about, gyutos that are nearly dead flat from the heel to midpoint, then some gentle curve, increasing exponentially towards the tip. Who on god's green earth feels comfortable raising their elbow high enough for the tip to contact the board? Am I just short with a too-tall cutting board??
> 
> The perfect gyuto would have a k-tip edge profile without the fugly k-tip, except no one makes them.


something like this?




__





SOLD - HSC/// 210mm Gyuto


Been on a spending spree and quite frankly, I don’t have enough room for my knives right now lol. So this is the first to get axed. I would love to keep it as it was my first custom from Harbeer and my first custom knife from a Western maker. I asked for a really flat profile, as you can see. It...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## spaceconvoy

tostadas said:


> something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOLD - HSC/// 210mm Gyuto
> 
> 
> Been on a spending spree and quite frankly, I don’t have enough room for my knives right now lol. So this is the first to get axed. I would love to keep it as it was my first custom from Harbeer and my first custom knife from a Western maker. I asked for a really flat profile, as you can see. It...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com


Yes! That's very nice.
But goes to show that you need a custom knife or something completely weird (to me) like that Kramer to find this profile. I'm not seeing it from Sanjo or Sakai though


----------



## tostadas

spaceconvoy said:


> Yes! That's very nice.
> But goes to show that you need a custom knife or something completely weird (to me) like that Kramer to find this profile. I'm not seeing it from Sanjo or Sakai though


Arent the new Mazaki's really flat? I havent used the newest ones, but one of the vendors told me that the flat spot was like 1/2 to 2/3 of the blade.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

@spaceconvoy
Wait... I'm ripping on Zwilling Kramers because the profile is stupid.

Your opinion of them?
Just curious.


----------



## spaceconvoy

applepieforbreakfast said:


> @spaceconvoy
> Wait... I'm ripping on Zwilling Kramers because the profile is stupid.
> 
> Your opinion of them?
> Just curious.


I see, I should have actually looked it up before mouthing off  I meant the standard Yoshikane and Migoto/Kagekiyo/etc

In some ways the Kramer is less objectionable because the transition is smoother, even if the tip is higher in reality.

I'm buzzed and this is unpopular opinions, so you get what you pay for


----------



## Qapla'

spaceconvoy said:


> The perfect gyuto would have a k-tip edge profile without the fugly k-tip, except no one makes them.


They do, but they don't call it "gyuto". They call that "santoku".


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

spaceconvoy said:


> I see, I should have actually looked it up before mouthing off  I meant the standard Yoshikane and Migoto/Kagekiyo/etc
> 
> In some ways the Kramer is less objectionable because the transition is smoother, even if the tip is higher in reality.
> 
> I'm buzzed and this is unpopular opinions, so you get what you pay for



No worries, me too!



KS profile is best profile!


----------



## spaceconvoy

Qapla' said:


> They do, but they don't call it "gyuto". They call that "santoku".


yes please! 250mm santoku sounds like the perfect knife


applepieforbreakfast said:


> KS profile is best profile!


----------



## tally-ho

tostadas said:


> Arent the new Mazaki's really flat? I havent used the newest ones, but one of the vendors told me that the flat spot was like 1/2 to 2/3 of the blade.


I received a Mazaki 240mm gyoto from cleancut today, flat spot 2/3 of the blade, tip 12mm above the cutting board when the edge sit on its flat spot on the cutting board.


----------



## spaceconvoy

yeah Mazaki has a good profile, also TF is pretty close... but both are niche knives to me, not into workhorses or project knives (anymore at least 

To get back on topic: Nakagawa is the coolest blacksmith. Check out his instagram today. Mazaki and his motorcycle have dropped to second place in my eyes.


----------



## tostadas

spaceconvoy said:


> yeah Mazaki has a good profile, also TF is pretty close... but both are niche knives to me, not into workhorses or project knives (anymore at least
> 
> To get back on topic: Nakagawa is the coolest blacksmith. Check out his instagram today. Mazaki and his motorcycle have dropped to second place in my eyes.
> 
> View attachment 132139


Is that a security tag still on the shoe?


----------



## spaceconvoy

some collector's thing I think... though he would be even cooler if he went around stealing rare shoes like a sneakerhead pink panther


----------



## tostadas

The Henckels 4-star is one of the worst knives I've ever used.

A list of cheap knives that I liked better includes Kiwi knife ($7), IKEA 360 santoku ($7.99), no name Chinese cleaver ($10).


----------



## coxhaus

I don't see how anyone uses a santoku knife. It is like dragging your tip around the cutting board. There is a reason they make chefs knives.


----------



## spaceconvoy

coxhaus said:


> I don't see how anyone uses a santoku knife. It is like dragging your tip around the cutting board. There is a reason they make chefs knives.


Santokus are great for people who like cleavers and know that the tip is the most important part of the knife. We can't understand why anyone would want an unusably narrow petty when you could have a santoku.


----------



## Kippington

spaceconvoy said:


> View attachment 132139



I turn round', *nek minnit...*


----------



## coxhaus

spaceconvoy said:


> Santokus are great for people who like cleavers and know that the tip is the most important part of the knife. We can't understand why anyone would want an unusably narrow petty when you could have a santoku.



Yea, I don't understand Chinese Cleavers at all. They are awkward and very uncomfortable to hold. I own one but I never use it.


----------



## ian

coxhaus said:


> Yea, I don't understand Chinese Cleavers at all. They are awkward and very uncomfortable to hold. I own one but I never use it.



Which one do you have? How do you hold it?


----------



## BillHanna

coxhaus said:


> Yea, I don't understand Chinese Cleavers at all. They are awkward and very uncomfortable to hold. I own one but I never use it.


I had this issue until I was advised to change my grip. I’ll see if I can find it.


----------



## mise_en_place

Yeah sounds like a grip issue, but they aren't for everyone!


----------



## coxhaus

I have an old Henckels 4star Chinese cleaver from 1968. It was my mom's and she never used either. I was thinking about using it to scoop up vegetables off the cutting board. I currently use my chef knives to scoop vegies after cutting.


----------



## BillHanna

On Topic: 

Cleavers are just sharp bench scrapers


----------



## Woshigeren

Kurosaki Senko line (pre-forged) being basically a factory blade finished by Kurosaki team with Kurosaki magical hype branding. Still great cutter but why a Takamura cost $140 and Senko costs $250+ is beyond me


----------



## panda

spaceconvoy said:


> Why is does every gyuto now have the same hockey stick profile?
> 
> Y'all know what I'm talking about, gyutos that are nearly dead flat from the heel to midpoint, then some gentle curve, increasing exponentially towards the tip. Who on god's green earth feels comfortable raising their elbow high enough for the tip to contact the board? Am I just short with a too-tall cutting board??
> 
> The perfect gyuto would have a k-tip edge profile without the fugly k-tip, except no one makes them.


since shigs became high demand


----------



## Jville

coxhaus said:


> I have an old Henckels 4star Chinese cleaver from 1968. It was my mom's and she never used either. I was thinking about using it to scoop up vegetables off the cutting board. I currently use my chef knives to scoop vegies after cutting.
> 
> View attachment 132846
> 
> 
> View attachment 132847


No wonder you hate Chinese cleavers. It’s like hating pizza, but all you ever ate was a Totinos pizza.


----------



## Qapla'

Chinese-style chef's-knives. Not "cleavers".


----------



## Michi

Bench scrapers are cleavers that were abandoned by their makers.


----------



## coxhaus

Thanks, Michi. Rough crowd. And I am no expert.

My Issue is cleavers are a different way of cutting. I like chef's knives. Santoku' knives are different also. They are just not my cup of tea.


----------



## Luftmensch

Kippington said:


> I turn round', *nek minnit...*



"If you need a knife that can cut through a shoe...":


----------



## Jovidah

tostadas said:


> The Henckels 4-star is one of the worst knives I've ever used.
> 
> A list of cheap knives that I liked better includes Kiwi knife ($7), IKEA 360 santoku ($7.99), no name Chinese cleaver ($10).


To be fair IKEA stuff is generally good bang for the buck. Wouldn't be surprised if their knives are actually pretty decent.



coxhaus said:


> I don't see how anyone uses a santoku knife. It is like dragging your tip around the cutting board. There is a reason they make chefs knives.


I think there's 2 problems... one is you have a western one which is rather heavy and clunky. IMO they work much better when they're light and thin. Then it also becomes much easier to use them the with push-cuts or just straight up chopping. If you're trying to use it to rock chop like you would a chef knife, and/or you're using a heavier German model, then yeah.... that's not exactly the best santoku experience you can have.


----------



## Oshidashi

I dislike santokus, don't see the utility vis-a-vis a gyuto. On the other hand, I love my Chinese cleaver (CCK 1303), which is fun to chop with, sharp as hell, and can do practically anything.


----------



## tostadas

Jovidah said:


> To be fair IKEA stuff is generally good bang for the buck. Wouldn't be surprised if their knives are actually pretty decent.


The steel is actually not terrible. It can take a reasonable edge with retention you would expect for a low end knife. The blade itself is on the thinner side, so the geometry helps make up for any deficiencies in sharpness. Handle is cheapo rubber plastic, but overall the knife has held up since my college days. It's definitely not one of the first knives I'd recommend to someone looking for a new chef knife, but for less than $10 you could do a lot worse.


----------



## jsph

ikea:

it's funny, they have lots of different kinds but the super-cheapo ikea knives are a good upon the world in all sorts of ways, and i liked their ergonomics and feel especially, never mind that they are usually the price of a big mac and fries, but steel-wise, they were as soft as cheese. ... which, even still, was both good and bad, because while the total lack of edge retention would drive you nuts, it meant that (1) you weren't going to chip them much, doing pretty much anything, and (2) you could sharpen them so easily, like even just on the bottom of a mug or bowl. ... so that if you didn't mind doing that pretty regularly, actually you could get a very sharp edge out of them, or at least, decently sharp for a <$10 knife. now here's the big finish: in the last couple of years, i saw they have some higher tier knives -- how expensive? still not more than about $15 - $20 canadian -- made of just about the same kind of steel as you'd get in, e.g., a wusthof, and in amazingly good shapes and sizes; these particular ones were made to be copycats of global knives, with all-steel construction going to steel handles with stripes cut out for grip. not only was the weight and balance incredibly well done, but the edge from the factory was truly sharp. i couldn't understand what the hell was going on. bought a few for friends, kids, etc, because we need to get more of these into people's hands, not least of all considering that [as in a parallel thread today/yesterday] they will be "gateway" knives to both better japanese and german knives. ... even though, i have to say again, they are themselves already easily worth quadruple their price in terms of true steel quality, build, edge, profile, etc, even if you never upgrade. love them. (aside: when you find a knife like this at half the price of a victorinox...?! what the hell is going on? [still, get the victorinox, too, for the handle, or if you want >8", convex grind, extremely fine grain, etc.])









IKEA 365+ Chef's knife, stainless steel, 8" (20 cm) - IKEA CA


IKEA 365+ Chef's knife, stainless steel, 8" (20 cm) Divide, cut and chop? This long and durable cook's knife helps you do it with a gallant touch. The sharp edge easily cuts through all kinds of food and is made to be used every day, year in and year out.




www.ikea.com













IKEA 365+ Utility knife, stainless steel, 6" (14 cm) - IKEA CA


IKEA 365+ Utility knife, stainless steel, 6" (14 cm) Slicing some fruit, shredding vegetables and trimming meat? A durable utility knife like this can handle most things. Made of durable stainless steel and made to be used every day, all year round. For easy slicing and trimming.




www.ikea.com













IKEA 365+ 3-piece knife set - IKEA CA


IKEA 365+ 3-piece knife set Divide, cut and chop ingredients of all sizes. It’s simple with these 2 cook's knives and an utility knife. A perfect starter set that helps you succeed in the kitchen – every day, all year round.




www.ikea.com





( trust me. )


----------



## Jovidah

A few years ago they even had a VG-10 line (I think it was called Slitbar or something like that), but they no longer carry them. Don't know about the actualy quality - never even saw them up close - but they were the cheapest VG-10 knives on the market at the time, and actually looked quite okay (on the pictures at least).


----------



## tally-ho

Jovidah said:


> A few years ago they even had a VG-10 line (I think it was called Slitbar or something like that), but they no longer carry them.


I first seen it about 10 years ago in a friend's kitchen just a few weeks after this knife was being discussed on our french straight razor forum, I never purchased one, nore I tried it but it was less than 40€. It has good reputation.
Coincidentally, today I bought an Ikea 365+ chef knife 200mm in X50CrMov15 steel for 20€ to left it in the kitchen at work (I'm not a pro-cook). A bit handle heavy (balance point at the "integrated" bolster), quite thin but you can feel the transition at the edge between the blade road ant the secondary bevel contrary for example to a takamura, so it's very acceptable for the price. It's probably not difficult to thin this part to have a transition convexified.


----------



## BillHanna

Time to get unpopular.


50mm+ tall gyutos get the gas face. 45mm tops. 40 gets the chef's kiss. If you need something that tall, get a rectangle.


----------



## spaceconvoy

BillHanna said:


> Time to get unpopular.
> 
> 
> 50mm+ tall gyutos get the gas face. 45mm tops. 40 gets the chef's kiss. If you need something that tall, get a rectangle.


I have sujihikis taller than that... but excellent content, v on topic


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> Time to get unpopular.
> 
> 
> 50mm+ tall gyutos get the gas face. 45mm tops. 40 gets the chef's kiss. If you need something that tall, get a rectangle.


Convertible Serbian Cleavers are superior! @Isasmedjan told me so! Order quickly!

P.S. Bbbbooooo!! Liar!


----------



## Qapla'

BillHanna said:


> Time to get unpopular.
> 
> 
> 50mm+ tall gyutos get the gas face. 45mm tops. 40 gets the chef's kiss. If you need something that tall, get a rectangle.



So something like this?









SHIKI VG-10 Handmade French Style Chef Knife 210mm (8.2 inch, Brown Camel Bone Handle)


Mr. Masui's experience in knife making and finishing techniques are assertively applied to create the custom handle and perfectly mirror polished Gyuto Knife.




japanesechefsknife.com





Stuff like Zanmai's discontinued "French Slicer" also come to mind. Though I don't think it's that common a height overall for gyuto's of any major length.


----------



## BillHanna

That’s more like it. If you wanna be a winner, you’ll go even thinner. Suji > Gyuto


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> That’s more like it. If you wanna be a winner, you’ll go even thinner. Suji > Gyuto


Won't have to take her skinny ass out to a fancy dinner
Like Sizzler she got a beef we'll chew the fat


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Won't have to take her skinny ass out to a fancy dinner
> Like Sizzler she got a beef we'll chew the fat


You know what the ten coolest things about New Jersey are?
1. 
2.
3.
4. 
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.


----------



## ian

I feel like we have numbers in other states too.


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> I feel like we have numbers in other states too.


But Boston goes:
1. Ian
2. Did you see #1?
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> You know what the ten coolest things about New Jersey are?
> 1.
> 2.
> 3.
> 4.
> 5.
> 6.
> 7.
> 8.
> 9.
> 10.



I absolutely love your sentiment but I will say touring the USS New Jersey is really cool. Then the other nine things you have listed.


----------



## spaceconvoy

I might catch some smoke for this given the status of the person I'm criticizing... but a broken gyuto with the tip cut off is not a nakiri, and suggesting it's what a gyuto user would want in a nakiri is almost insulting. 

I am a gyuto user and I like nakiris because they are _different_ from gyutos. A taller heel height and much flatter profile are crucial features in my opinion. It would have made a great santoku, if people weren't so prejudiced against them.


----------



## tostadas

spaceconvoy said:


> I might catch some smoke for this given the status of the person I'm criticizing... but a broken gyuto with the tip cut off is not a nakiri, and suggesting it's what a gyuto user would want in a nakiri is almost insulting.
> 
> I am a gyuto user and I like nakiris because they are _different_ from gyutos. A taller heel height and much flatter profile are crucial features in my opinion. It would have made a great santoku, if people weren't so prejudiced against them.



A broken gyuto and a nakiri are the same thing in my book


----------



## tally-ho

tostadas said:


> A broken gyuto and a nakiri are the same thing in my book


Yeah maybe, but not in my kitchen.


----------



## WiriWiri

BillHanna said:


> Time to get unpopular.
> 50mm+ tall gyutos get the gas face. 45mm tops. 40 gets the chef's kiss. If you need something that tall, get a rectangle.



Yes to this. As an old man, I shake my head wistfully at how things have turned out, For example, the classic Sakai lasers, with theIr dinky heel heights, were attractive design classics - all sleek purpose and nimbleness. And now they;re increasingly bloated and ugly, puffed up like snouty hatchbacks rather than the darting racers they were. And all to fit the whiny, tradition-disrespecting demands of fat fingered western types, demanding extra mms ln the style of desperados ordering Ukranian child brides.

I despair, I really do. Golden geese murdered (sob), all because few precious primadonnas were too proud to opt for a nakiri or santoku.


----------



## AT5760

Zwilling santokus are pretty decent knives (except for the tiny handle and razor sharp choil/spine).


----------



## M1k3

AT5760 said:


> Zwilling santokus are pretty decent knives (except for the tiny handle and razor sharp choil/spine).


So.... project, not huge project, knife?


----------



## stringer

Rounded spines and choils should be earned the old fashioned way. Easing the steel corners slowly over the years by hand rubbing it away with your own calloused skin as you spend thousands of hours cutting things up.


----------



## ian

I deburr on my eyeballs.


----------



## stringer

ian said:


> I deburr on my eyeballs.


This is the way
PS: this would be dangerous, even if effective and so it is not the way.


----------



## M1k3

stringer said:


> This is the way


I have spoken.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> I deburr on my eyeballs.



Compound or no?


----------



## WiriWiri

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Compound or no?



Surely this is an unnecessary question?

Clearly yes, or why else would why they put diamond spray in convenient dispenser bottles, perfect to nestle amongst your other cosmetics and Bro beauty products.

Sharpening like this should be a part of every modern male’s daily routine.How else can you get that special sparkle in your eye?


----------



## MarcelNL

I skip doing that for stainless, as removing the particles with a Neodymium magnet does not work well...how do you cope with that, is there a trick?


----------



## ian

MarcelNL said:


> I skip doing that for stainless, as removing the particles with a Neodymium magnet does not work well...how do you cope with that, is there a trick?



There’s this cool life hack where if you blink a lot, particles get pushed into the corners of your eyes. So I usually just blink for a couple hours afterward, and then let my deep, soul-penetrating sadness wash them away.


----------



## ian

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Compound or no?



I don’t have compound eyes, but I’ll look into them next time I upgrade.


----------



## tostadas

ian said:


> There’s this cool life hack where if you blink a lot, particles get pushed into the corners of your eyes. So I usually just blink for a couple hours afterward, and then let my deep, soul-penetrating sadness wash them away.


This is how you get that mirror finish


----------



## Jville

spaceconvoy said:


> I might catch some smoke for this given the status of the person I'm criticizing... but a broken gyuto with the tip cut off is not a nakiri, and suggesting it's what a gyuto user would want in a nakiri is almost insulting.
> 
> I am a gyuto user and I like nakiris because they are _different_ from gyutos. A taller heel height and much flatter profile are crucial features in my opinion. It would have made a great santoku, if people weren't so prejudiced against them.


Why are you saying it is a broken gyuto?


----------



## spaceconvoy

Jville said:


> Why are you saying it is a broken gyuto?


Because the profile is exactly like a 240mm gyuto that was cut down to salvage it


----------



## Jville

spaceconvoy said:


> Because the profile is exactly like a 240mm gyuto that was cut down to salvage it


Are you saying that you know he cut one of his sgrind gyutos down to salvage it or that it looks like it was a gyuto cut down? To me the profile still looked flatter than a gyuto, but pics can be tricky.


----------



## Jville

spaceconvoy said:


> Because the profile is exactly like a 240mm gyuto that was cut down to salvage it


I didn’t follow the making of the knife, so when I saw your comment I thought maybe you knew something about the making that I didn’t. But it seems like it was purposely made into a nakiri. And the profile I don’t think seems to non nakirish. There is a range and it seems to be in the nakiri range still. It still seems somewhat flatter than most gyuto profiles. And while many nakiris can be taller, I have seen them in this height range. I have a takeda large nakiri that is only 53mm at the heel, although it is a little shorter in length.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

M1k3 said:


> So.... project, not huge project, knife?


I have similar experience. The zwilling santokus are decently thin every where. Totally different grind than the chef's knife.


----------



## Jville

spaceconvoy said:


> Because the profile is exactly like a 240mm gyuto that was cut down to salvage it


Actually, I looked at it again on IG and I am confused, so I honestly don’t know, perhaps you are right.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Jville said:


> Actually, I looked at it again on IG and I am confused, so I honestly don’t know, perhaps you are right.


Just my hot take, no idea really, that's why I posted it here in the garbage pile. Wouldn't have said anything if it was presented differently. To each their own and I'm sure someone will love it. But don't tell me it's what I would want - like I have no appreciation for the subtleties of the classic nakiri design because I'm primarily a gyuto user? Bugs me for some reason


----------



## ian

Jville said:


> Actually, I looked at it again on IG and I am confused, so I honestly don’t know, perhaps you are right.



Don't think it really matters if it used to be something else. Pretty sure every knife used to be bigger before grinding. Since the maker is a gyuto user, I imagine he was speaking for himself when he said it's what a gyuto user wants in a nakiri, although I do see @spaceconvoy's complaint. Anyway, it looks like it has an awesome grind. Hope the lucky buyer enjoys it; it looks badass.


----------



## juice

ian said:


> Hope the lucky buyer enjoys it; it looks badass.


Yep, this is the bit that ACTUALLY matters.


----------



## BillHanna

Ricotta is terrible


----------



## ian

BillHanna said:


> Ricotta is terrible
> 
> --------
> You're all variants



You made it yourself yet? Store bought is terrible.

I really like that show.


----------



## Jville

BillHanna said:


> Ricotta is terrible


Yup, I’m with Ian, we would make in house at a restaurant that I worked at and it was exquisitely delicious! Hard for me to imagine anyone not liking it, much different than the store bought stuff.


----------



## WiriWiri

Halloumi is great and grills superbly, but it is not a cheese. It is a byproduct of the orthopaedic mattress industry. The authorities humour this deception because it gives vegetarians something nice to eat at BBQs


----------



## Jovidah

Bunkas are for insecure men who don't want to buy a santoku.


----------



## WiriWiri

Jovidah said:


> Bunkas are for insecure men who don't want to buy a santoku.



Yep. I thoroughly agree. You and i know the kind of people who buy bunkas - henpecked middle aged men who drink Coke Zero or `Pepsi Max and secretly like big show tunes.


----------



## chefwp

Here is a twofer:
When U2 comes on the radio, I switch stations
When I see a tsuchime/hammered knife online I don't even pause as I keep scrolling.


----------



## juice

chefwp said:


> When U2 comes on the radio, I switch stations


First three albums were good, back before Bono outed himself as a massive wanker.


----------



## jsph

juice said:


> First three albums were good, back before Bono outed himself as a massive wanker.



so long as you keep calling him bono vox, you're part of the problem.


----------



## juice

jsph said:


> so long as you keep calling him bono vox, you're part of the problem.


Yeah, calling him by his legal name that exactly nobody knows makes a lot of sense.


----------



## jsph

try it and see. break the cycle. that's the smell of empower-mint in the air. #RED


----------



## M1k3

jsph said:


> so long as you keep calling him bono vox, you're part of the problem.


----------



## madmotts

WiriWiri said:


> Yep. I thoroughly agree. You and i know the kind of people who buy bunkas - henpecked middle aged men who drink Coke Zero or `Pepsi Max and secretly like big show tunes.



Big show tunes? Come on! gawd.


----------



## MarcelNL

WiriWiri said:


> Yep. I thoroughly agree. You and i know the kind of people who buy bunkas - henpecked middle aged men who drink Coke Zero or `Pepsi Max and secretly like big show tunes.



So you mean that a Bunka is a pathway to an outing completed by buying a Santoku? Works for me, I got a Santoku and I like it.


----------



## Aidan

chefwp said:


> Here is a twofer:
> When U2 comes on the radio, I switch stations
> When I see a tsuchime/hammered knife online I don't even pause as I keep scrolling.


What? Even a TF?


----------



## WiriWiri

MarcelNL said:


> So you mean that a Bunka is a pathway to an outing completed by buying a Santoku? Works for me, I got a Santoku and I like it.



This is not the necessary path. These are more enlightened times: men should not need to pretend to like Marlboro Cigarettes and country and western. Liking a santoku is fine - it doesn’t need to be called a mini-gyuto max and have a fatuous point to make you feel macho - and you can even wear pink if you like. Say it loud - I have santoku and I am proud

Musicals remain shite though. I want no part of any musical scene or reality where Andrew Lloyd Webber reigns as some kind of toad-like deity.


----------



## jsph

M1k3 said:


>




classic. m1k3 gets it. perfection....


----------



## captaincaed

I regret starting this thread


----------



## M1k3

captaincaed said:


> I regret starting this thread


----------



## Jville

captaincaed said:


> I regret starting this thread


It was fantastic when you started it. People vented for the first idk 12-20 pages, can’t remember, then it turned to s$&!. People were forcing it and just blah blahing about whatever.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

T shirts with picture on the back are the hight of fashion, Esp. if about food.


----------



## tcmx3

Keith Sinclair said:


> T shirts with picture on the back are the hight of fashion, Esp. if about food.
> View attachment 134576
> View attachment 134577
> View attachment 134578
> View attachment 134579
> View attachment 134579
> View attachment 134580



this may be an unpopular opinion in 2021 but let me tell you in 1994 Gainesville Florida if you werent wearing a t-shirt with a big ass fish on the back you were SUPER lame.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Added bonus for fashion is pocket T
so you can clip on your reading glasses.

Or a pack of smokes.


----------



## spaceconvoy

tcmx3 said:


> this may be an unpopular opinion in 2021 but let me tell you in 1994 Gainesville Florida if you werent wearing a t-shirt with a big ass fish on the back you were SUPER lame.


RIP Skeeters

Nowadays if you aren't nonbinary in downtown gville, you're super lame


----------



## WiriWiri

captaincaed said:


> I regret starting this thread





Jville said:


> It was fantastic when you started it. People vented for the first idk 12-20 pages, can’t remember, then it turned to s$&!. People were forcing it and just blah blahing about whatever.



I


chefwp said:


> Here is a twofer:
> When U2 comes on the radio, I switch stations
> When I see a tsuchime/hammered knife online I don't even pause as I keep scrolling.



I blame Bono


----------



## jsph

WiriWiri said:


> I blame Bono



paul david hewson!


----------



## M1k3

jsph said:


> robert paulson!


----------



## Keith Sinclair

spaceconvoy said:


> RIP Skeeters
> 
> Nowadays if you aren't nonbinary in downtown gville, you're super lame



Gainesville sounds like from hicks to swishy.


----------



## IsoJ

Peanut butter sucks


----------



## WiriWiri

IsoJ said:


> Peanut butter sucks



Pah, you Finns are all the same. Big arachibutyrophobian wusses

Peanut butter is the only thing which makes Reeses cups bearable, allowing an American choc product to be exported reasonably successfully. American chocolate is a true wonder of grimness, low quality vomity tasting weirdness that you can’t believe anyone could get away with selling.


----------



## IsoJ

WiriWiri said:


> Pah, you Finns are all the same. Big arachibutyrophobian wusses
> 
> Peanut butter is the only thing which makes Reeses cups bearable, allowing an American choc product to be exported reasonably successfully. American chocolate is a true wonder of grimness, low quality vomity tasting weirdness that you can’t believe anyone could get away with selling.


The original product/dish must have unimaginable things going wrong when someone thinks that peanut butter will safe it. I don't know what phobies are but if I try real hard, maybe I can work it out in time .


----------



## MarcelNL

Cadbury's is US made too


----------



## juice

MarcelNL said:


> Cadbury's is US made too


And it's also awful unless you want to just eat sugar. Thank you for agreeing.


----------



## WiriWiri

MarcelNL said:


> Cadbury's is US made too



US owned, but they’ve given the usual (useless) assurances that things won’t change (much)

Not that classic Cadburys chocolate is great in any quality sense, but it’s cloyingly, comfortably sweet and you can at least see the appeal there to children. And at least those Quakers tried to do some good when releasing the sugary temptation to a mass market starved of such treats before.

I know childhood tastebuds have a lot to answer for, but much US chocolate is utterly grim, that whiff of sour dustiness prevailing. If a choice between a Hershey‘s Kiss and the Glasgow variety I’m not altogether certain I wouldn‘t go for the Scottish option


----------



## MarcelNL

I've raised my kids on 'grown up' chocolate, my youngest son (5) vastly prefers dark chocolate and recently commented 'this chocolate is far too sugary" which made me grin.

(not that he does not like sweet at all, that is pre-programmed in our instinct)


----------



## Jville

WiriWiri said:


> Pah, you Finns are all the same. Big arachibutyrophobian wusses
> 
> Peanut butter is the only thing which makes Reeses cups bearable, allowing an American choc product to be exported reasonably successfully. American chocolate is a true wonder of grimness, low quality vomity tasting weirdness that you can’t believe anyone could get away with selling.


Green & Black is American made and it’s great chocolate. Also while not healthy, Reeses Peanut Butter cups are delicious. But I will admit that most American chocolate is low grade. If you take the health aspect away, some are still tasty like Twix.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Only reason Scotland & England have good food is because of brown people.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Wow this thread has been spicy.


----------



## tcmx3

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Wow this thread has been spicy.



as spicy as cracked white pepper


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Janice is third generation local Hawaii Japanese. She loves all those English shows like Masterpiece theater. Some are good don't mind watching. Now have Net Flicks binge watching the Crown. I want to shoot myself.


----------



## tcmx3

Keith Sinclair said:


> Janice is third generation local Hawaii Japanese. She loves all those English shows like Masterpiece theater. Some are good don't mind watching. Now have Net Flicks binge watching the Crown. I want to shoot myself.



oh come on The Crown is hardly the worst thing Ive watched for a woman, if youre complaining about that I think you've gotten off lucky in the past.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Only thing have ever binge watched is Outlander. She got into that even read the books. We watched that as years went buy as they aired. It's different all these options on Net Flicks where you have 4 years of the Crown
that's a lot of watching TV.


----------



## MarcelNL

we have an agreement, to not make the other watch the few programs we watch (we hardly watch TV)


----------



## Michi

Santokus are for people with aichmophobia.


----------



## spaceconvoy

I think you mean nakiris... or would you not mind being stabbed with a santoku?


----------



## Keith Sinclair

The reason Santoku are made by many makers
all over planet is because they sell. Why because they work actually cut better than the box set they bought. Finger guard, crappy grind,
soft stainless chef knives. That don't work anymore because their pull through sharpener
doesn't put a edge worth a damn.


----------



## Michi

I don't need no stinkin' kitchen knives because I only eat TV dinners. They come pre-cut, so all I need is a fork.

Knives are for people who can't afford TV dinners and are stupid enough to cook their own…


----------



## mise_en_place

The only acceptable way to eat filet mignon is deep fried to mid-rare/rare. No, I'm not joking.


----------



## tcmx3

Michi said:


> I don't need no stinkin' kitchen knives because I only eat TV dinners. They come pre-cut, so all I need is a fork.
> 
> Knives are for people who can't afford TV dinners and are stupid enough to cook their own…


----------



## dafox

Michi said:


> Santokus are for people with aichmophobia.


Had to look that up!


----------



## mmiinngg

Good food release knife is just for poor knife skills users


----------



## tcmx3

mise_en_place said:


> The only acceptable way to eat filet mignon is deep fried to mid-rare/rare. No, I'm not joking.



isnt most tenderloin technically shallow fried? certainly I wouldnt be cooking it without some additional fat, probably from grapeseed oil and (copious) butter.

now for an actual unpopular steak opinion; I would rather have a steak that's a little bit over but has a proper crust than one of those "perfectly cooked" sous vide steaks with weak ass caramelization. 

furthermore, a well done burger is actually perfectly tasty if the fat content of the beef is high enough, and not every burger should be cooked medium. in fact, unless you're spending up for a proper, super fresh high cut blend, well done is probably a safer choice not only for safety but for taste/texture.

and Im really going to get it for this one, but chicken fried steak is an inherently flawed dish, where you have a deep fried food that you are introducing a wet sauce too. it just doesnt make any sense. please stop.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

tcmx3 said:


> and Im really going to get it for this one, but chicken fried steak is an inherently flawed dish, where you have a deep fried food that you are introducing a wet sauce too. it just doesnt make any sense. please stop.


----------



## coxhaus

tcmx3 said:


> isnt most tenderloin technically shallow fried? certainly I wouldnt be cooking it without some additional fat, probably from grapeseed oil and (copious) butter.
> 
> now for an actual unpopular steak opinion; I would rather have a steak that's a little bit over but has a proper crust than one of those "perfectly cooked" sous vide steaks with weak ass caramelization.
> 
> furthermore, a well done burger is actually perfectly tasty if the fat content of the beef is high enough, and not every burger should be cooked medium. in fact, unless you're spending up for a proper, super fresh high cut blend, well done is probably a safer choice not only for safety but for taste/texture.
> 
> and Im really going to get it for this one, but chicken fried steak is an inherently flawed dish, where you have a deep fried food that you are introducing a wet sauce too. it just doesnt make any sense. please stop.



I think steak or hamburgers need a little crust to taste good. I have had slow cooked meat which I call grey meat. Not much flavor in my mind.

I can even eat Pittsburg red if it can be cooked right and not overdone as I like my steak rare.

I am a strange one in Texas that I like fresh squeezed lemon juice on my chicken fried steak. I even like tomato based hot sauce on my mashed potatoes instead of gravy because hardly anybody makes good old gravy anymore. I think there is too much instant gravy out there.

PS
The tomato hot sauces in Texas are homemade and everywhere. If I had to choose tomato jar hot sauce or instant gravy, I would not choose jar hot sauce. I basically don't eat tomato jar hot sauce. I mean dipping jar hot sauce. I eat stuff like Tabasco hot sauce.


----------



## ian

tcmx3 said:


> isnt most tenderloin technically shallow fried? certainly I wouldnt be cooking it without some additional fat, probably from grapeseed oil and (copious) butter.
> 
> now for an actual unpopular steak opinion; I would rather have a steak that's a little bit over but has a proper crust than one of those "perfectly cooked" sous vide steaks with weak ass caramelization.
> 
> furthermore, a well done burger is actually perfectly tasty if the fat content of the beef is high enough, and not every burger should be cooked medium. in fact, unless you're spending up for a proper, super fresh high cut blend, well done is probably a safer choice not only for safety but for taste/texture.
> 
> and Im really going to get it for this one, but chicken fried steak is an inherently flawed dish, where you have a deep fried food that you are introducing a wet sauce too. it just doesnt make any sense. please stop.



Mostly agree here. If a burger doesn’t have a good crust, it’s worthless. Ideally, it would have a good crust and allso some pink in the middle, but I’d sacrifice the pink if necessary.

Don’t agree with the chicken fried steak bit, tho. If you catch it at the right moment, crispy + saucy is awesome. Even more extreme: tempura in noodle soup.


----------



## mise_en_place

I mean 3-stepped or chicken fried. But I've been a part of some experiments and 3-stepped is the way to go with filet. 

I also agree burgers must have a good crust. I have enjoyed more than plenty of well-done burgers. Fat content is key.

In general, I think sous vide steak kind of sucks. Unless you have a very thick cut that you set to several degrees below desired temperature so that you have enough time with the grill or time to baste in a pan to create something worth a damn. "Boiled" steak with a flash sear over a typical home range is for the birds.


----------



## matchplay18

Funny thing you click on to this thread. The subject matter infinite. I find myself either in alignment or off center with the topics discussed. My wheels are turning. There are some really great exchanges


----------



## rstcso

coxhaus said:


> I am a strange one in Texas that I like fresh squeezed lemon juice on my chicken fried steak.


Then you're in the right place! Just order a sweet tea and ask for extra lemons on the side. No explaining necessary.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

As a home cook, I just don't care that much about food release.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Like Costco Salmon burgers. Grilled onions, mushrooms, Vine ripe tomato, grillo's dill pickle, extra sharp cheddar cheese, lettuce, arugula, avocado, homemade tarter sauce.
Butter browned buns.

Better than beef & esp. fake meat burgers.
Those awful crispy chicken burgers.

Mahi Mahi grilled over coals makes awesome 
Fish burger.


----------



## Ben.G.

HumbleHomeCook said:


> As a home cook, I just don't care that much about food release.


As a professional cook, I don’t care that much about food release. I have never heard any chef mention food release from a knife. I think it is only a home cook thing. Pros just learn how to deal with it.


----------



## ian

Ben.G. said:


> As a professional cook, I don’t care that much about food release. I have never heard any chef mention food release from a knife. I think it is only a home cook thing. Pros just learn how to deal with it.



I think it’s more likely that it’s a knife nerd thing. There are plenty of pro cooks/chefs on here that love food release.


----------



## Barmoley

ian said:


> I think it’s more likely that it’s a knife nerd thing. There are plenty of pro cooks/chefs on here that love food release.


Great point. I bet pros can adjust to anything and we know that most pros who are not knife enthusiasts use relatively crappy knives, so being a pro doesn’t necessarily make one a knife connoisseur.


----------



## M1k3

I care about food release. Sucks to stop while cutting something to pry it off. That said, if it doesn't suction on, I can make it work.


----------



## coxhaus

So, doesn't a knife taper keep food from sticking? I don't really have an understanding of this. Is it because I use German knives?


----------



## M1k3

coxhaus said:


> So, doesn't a knife taper keep food from sticking? I don't really have an understanding of this. Is it because I use German knives?


Taper from spine to tip, not really. The blade face being rounded does. 2 flat surfaces have more friction than a flat and curved surface. Less surface area in contact with each other.


----------



## stringer

coxhaus said:


> So, doesn't a knife taper keep food from sticking? I don't really have an understanding of this. Is it because I use German knives?



One benefit of the German knives is they have nice convex faces that aid in food release. The drawback is that they tend to wedge or split denser foods before cutting all the way through. Very thin knives have less room for convexity. Flatter grinds have more issues with suction.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

M1k3 said:


> I care about food release. Sucks to stop while cutting something to pry it off. That said, if it doesn't suction on, I can make it work.View attachment 136264



If that's spine of knife on peeled potato in picture it looks pretty thick.  is that a Deba? Don't peel potato always skin on home cook. Cut before cook.

My blue moon has relatively thick spine Nashiji finish potatoes don't stick because top of knife 
is thick bottom assem. grind.


----------



## Jovidah

stringer said:


> One benefit of the German knives is they have nice convex faces that aid in food release. The drawback is that they tend to wedge or split denser foods before cutting all the way through. Very thin knives have less room for convexity. Flatter grinds have more issues with suction.


What convexing? :| My Wüsthof is only second to my Robert Herder in stickage...
At least the Herder has thinness behind the edge / lack of wedging as an excuse.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

coxhaus said:


> So, doesn't a knife taper keep food from sticking? I don't really have an understanding of this. Is it because I use German knives?



German knives are far from immune to food sticking and sticktion.


----------



## M1k3

Keith Sinclair said:


> If that's spine of knife on peeled potato in picture it looks pretty thick.  is that a Deba? Don't peel potato always skin on home cook. Cut before cook.
> 
> My blue moon has relatively thick spine Nashiji finish potatoes don't stick because top of knife
> is thick bottom assem. grind.


Bad picture, taken with crappy camera phone, in the middle of service. It was the Milan Gravier pass around knife.


----------



## coxhaus

Jovidah said:


> What convexing? :| My Wüsthof is only second to my Robert Herder in stickage...
> At least the Herder has thinness behind the edge / lack of wedging as an excuse.



So, I guess my German knives have convex faces because I use belts to sharpen with instead of stones?


----------



## M1k3

coxhaus said:


> So, I guess my German knives have convex faces because I use belts to sharpen with instead of stones?


Do your belts touch the edge, or most of the face of the blade?


----------



## Jovidah

coxhaus said:


> So, I guess my German knives have convex faces because I use belts to sharpen with instead of stones?


I honestly don't know what results your belt have. Could be simply because yours were older so they were still manually ground. This discussion is more about the original factory grind (so not so much the edge itself, but the but everything above it).

I just checked and to be fair, it's not 100% flatgrind on mine, there seems to be a tiny little bit of convexity, it's just not enough to contribute anything positive. So as a result my Wüsty is both sticky & wedgy. And mine hasn't really been thinned or polished, so apart from some minor edge sharpening it's still in essentially it's stock configuration. 

On the Robert Herder I have a feeling it's also caused by the excessive amount of polishing they do. Yes, it looks better, and it might make it rust slower, but mirror-ish polishes just have a habbit of sticking a lot more; found that out accidentally on some of my other knives when I went nuts practising.


----------



## coxhaus

M1k3 said:


> Do your belts touch the edge, or most of the face of the blade?


I think just the edge.


----------



## Kippington

coxhaus said:


> I think just the edge.
> 
> View attachment 136333


Yeah that's just sharpening the edge, not really what people here consider any kind of grind that relates to food release.
This image from a different thread might help explain:


----------



## WiriWiri

stringer said:


> One benefit of the German knives is they have nice convex faces that aid in food release. The drawback is that they tend to wedge or split denser foods before cutting all the way through. Very thin knives have less room for convexity. Flatter grinds have more issues with suction.



I agree, but I also have a sneaking suspicion that Coxhaus’s vintage 4-stars are a fair bit thicker behind the (obligatory mention: *Ken Onion Worksharp *cultivated) edge than some of us here may be accustomed to. Add in what seems a likely preference for a hammer grip and perhaps more downward Texan chopping style force and I’m not envisaging fine slices sticking to a laser in classic sticktion style. It would be uncharitable to suggest that the separation is achieved in a fashion more akin to an axe splintering wood, but I suspect the reality is somewhere inbetween


----------



## coxhaus

So, the axe method keeps food from sticking from what I gather here. 

I was reading on Worksharp's web site and with the latest Ken Onion attachment you can adjust the belt tension for how much convex you would like.

But it sounds like the knife style overrides the sharpening type if I am understanding this.


----------



## Jville

Whoever says food release is only a matter of technique, as meaning grinds of a knife can not create food release, are just trying to sound cool or either stup…endously unaware of the knives out there. I’m not saying that you can’t create food release with technique, but some knives you don’t have too.


----------



## juice

Jville said:


> Whoever says food release is only a matter of technique, as meaning grinds of a knife can not create food release, are just trying to sound cool or either stup…endously unaware of the knives out there. I’m not saying that you can’t create food release with technique, but some knives you don’t have too.


Nice avatar matching.


----------



## Bobby2shots

According to David Holly from KnifeMerchant.com, the Glestain knives are the only Granton-type edges that really work at food release. David's a chef as well as a knife dealer.





__





Glestain 210mm Gyuto | knifemerchant.com


Scalloped blade for effortless slicing, cutting, chopping, and mincing.



www.knifemerchant.com





Go to the 1:15 mark of this video.


----------



## spaceconvoy

"This is a single bevel edge?"
"It is, yeah."



At least you're in the correct thread


----------



## Jville

juice said:


> Nice avatar matching.


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> "This is a single bevel edge?"
> "It is, yeah."
> 
> 
> 
> At least you're in the correct thread



Heh, yea.



Bobby2shots said:


> According to David Holly from KnifeMerchant.com, the Glestain knives are the only granton-type edges, really work at food release. David's a chef as well as a knife dealer.



I can't really tell what you're saying here, but I think a lot of people here agree that most grantons don't do much for food release, but the Glestain grantons work pretty well. (I haven't tried one.)

There are certainly ways to create food release without grantons though.


----------



## stringer

If I'm trying to slice something with a knife and stuff sticks then watch me grab a food processor or a mandoline.


----------



## Luftmensch

Kippington said:


> Yeah that's just sharpening the edge, not really what people here consider any kind of grind that relates to food release.
> This image from a different thread might help explain:



Hey Kip...

"Asymmetrical sharpening - done to counter the steer from above"

How is this done? Is there a more obtuse bevel on the left side (of the image) to counteract the grind on the right side?


----------



## ian

Luftmensch said:


> Is there a more obtuse bevel on the left side (of the image) to counteract the grind on the right side?



That's what I do.


----------



## Kippington

coxhaus said:


> So, the axe method keeps food from sticking from what I gather here.
> 
> I was reading on Worksharp's web site and with the latest Ken Onion attachment you can adjust the belt tension for how much convex you would like.
> 
> But it sounds like the knife style overrides the sharpening type if I am understanding this.


Sharpening with a convex bevel is generally reserved for blades that go through tougher jobs than kitchen knives normally do. Although we do a similar thing with microbevels and the like.

What is the axe method?



Luftmensch said:


> Hey Kip...
> 
> "Asymmetrical sharpening - done to counter the steer from above"
> 
> How is this done? Is there a more obtuse bevel on the left side (of the image) to counteract the grind on the right side?


The rest of the explanation is in the original thread:






A Basic Explanation of Asymmetry


A Basic Explanation of Asymmetry Way back when I began sharpening I remember reading through many forum threads about asymmetry in double bevel knives and having no idea what was going on. All this talk about 70/30 and 80/20, "You should be doing this and shouldn't do that", but no real...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## coxhaus

Kippington said:


> Sharpening with a convex bevel is generally reserved for blades that go through tougher jobs than kitchen knives normally do. Although we do a similar thing with microbevels and the like.
> 
> What is the axe method?





WiriWiri said:


> I agree, but I also have a sneaking suspicion that Coxhaus’s vintage 4-stars are a fair bit thicker behind the (obligatory mention: *Ken Onion Worksharp *cultivated) edge than some of us here may be accustomed to. Add in what seems a likely preference for a hammer grip and perhaps more downward Texan chopping style force and I’m not envisaging fine slices sticking to a laser in classic sticktion style. It would be uncharitable to suggest that the separation is achieved in a fashion more akin to an axe splintering wood, but I suspect the reality is somewhere inbetween



I am referring to this as the axe method.


----------



## Luftmensch

Kippington said:


> The rest of the explanation is in the original thread:



Nice one. On ya' Kip!


----------



## Oshidashi

Wondering if anyone here believes a kurouchi or nashiji finish on the blade makes a difference as far as sticktion. At least compared to a thin blade with a mirror finish.

Also, it seems to me sticking is mostly a problem when you want slices to stay together after slicing, all lined up in order and looking pretty, in which case the index finger is likely needed anyway to keep it right. For normal slicing and dicing I simply ignore the phenomenon and let the next slice of product displace the former from the blade face.


----------



## Matt Jacobs

I


Oshidashi said:


> Wondering if anyone here believes a kurouchi or nashiji finish on the blade makes a difference as far as sticktion. At least compared to a thin blade with a mirror finish.
> 
> Also, it seems to me sticking is mostly a problem when you want slices to stay together after slicing, all lined up in order and looking pretty, in which case the index finger is likely needed anyway to keep it right. For normal slicing and dicing I simply ignore the phenomenon and let the next slice of product displace the former from the blade face.


I absolutely think they make a difference. A ton of little things make a huge difference. Carbon steel alone can make a difference with only a little patina. Full flat ground stainless knives are the worst for sticking. Any tweak to the grind or finish gets better for food release in my opinion


----------



## tcmx3

Oshidashi said:


> Wondering if anyone here believes a kurouchi or nashiji finish on the blade makes a difference as far as sticktion. At least compared to a thin blade with a mirror finish.
> 
> Also, it seems to me sticking is mostly a problem when you want slices to stay together after slicing, all lined up in order and looking pretty, in which case the index finger is likely needed anyway to keep it right. For normal slicing and dicing I simply ignore the phenomenon and let the next slice of product displace the former from the blade face.



cant speak about the finish specifically because Ive never tested it directly, but I can say observationally that many Ku/nashiji knives have a shinogi that is elevated over the top of the blade with the ku/nashiji finish such that you actually do get better release than the very flat thinner blades. but this is a geometry issue not a finish issue.

on the issue of kasumi and sticking, I refinish all of my serious users and I cant say that Ive ever had a knife not improve after a bead blast is taken off.


----------



## esoo

White 2 steel sucks. Sure it is supposed to get super sharp, but I've never gotten it sharper than any semi-stainless (HD2/SKD), and the fact that edge retention goes "Sharp, Sharp, I'm not cutting" annoys me.


----------



## ModRQC

Mazaki - fourth prep - lots of acidics - no wiping - OOTB edge…






And some onions already in the pan.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

esoo said:


> White 2 steel sucks. Sure it is supposed to get super sharp, but I've never gotten it sharper than any semi-stainless (HD2/SKD), and the fact that edge retention goes "Sharp, Sharp, I'm not cutting" annoys me.


Sharpen white 2 steel at very acute angle will help with edge retention. Like <10 degree per side. But I get you. I like blue 2/1/super steel far better.


----------



## esoo

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Sharpen white 2 steel at very acute angle will help with edge retention. Like <10 degree per side. But I get you. I like blue 2/1/super steel far better.



Yeah, Blue is a great steel. The Blue 2 I have (Kono MM) is great for sharpening and then it holds that edge forever. 

Never used White 1 in a gyuto so my judgement is still out on that.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

esoo said:


> Yeah, Blue is a great steel. The Blue 2 I have (Kono MM) is great for sharpening and then it holds that edge forever.
> 
> Never used White 1 in a gyuto so my judgement is still out on that.


I sold all my white steels too with exception to the honyakis, but tbh even the white honyakis are not much better. I'm keeping a Shig (steel similar to white) just to appreciate how easy it is to sharpen and how ridiculously sharp it gets.


----------



## ModRQC

White is okay. Shouldn’t look for Blue retention out of it. But longevity still depends on technique to a good extent. I’d say surface too but anyone around here could boast a good end grain or hasewaga so… moot point.


----------



## esoo

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I sold all my white steels too with exception to the honyakis, but tbh even the white honyakis are not much better. I'm keeping a Shig (steel similar to white) just to appreciate how easy it is to sharpen and how ridiculously sharp it gets.



The only White I have left is Tojrio Shirogani. They were cheap ($40CDN each). They make great beaters - they get better than German sharp, but are I guess around 60HRC so take a lot of abuse. I've watched the fiancee spatchcock chicken with them and nothing happens with the edge.


----------



## dafox

Ya, I rarely ever use my white steel knives any more except yanagibas.


----------



## Oshidashi

The best sharpening stones are splash and go with a base. Because people are inherently lazy, especially at the end of a long day. A stone with which you can finish sharpening a knife or two only a couple of minutes after you pull it out of the drawer, is a stone that will be used more often.


----------



## ian

Oshidashi said:


> A stone with which you can finish sharpening a knife or two only a couple of minutes after you pull it out of the drawer, is a stone that will be used more often.



Wrong thread. 

But seriously, the only solution is making your permasoaked soakers just as convenient as your s&g. Def not possible for everyone tho.


----------



## WiriWiri

I woke up in an admittedly quite bad mood today and made the inadvisable decision to click on a old JCK email link. It took me to a selection of Takeshi Saji blades

Now Takeshi Saji may be billed ‘the leading knife maker in Takefu city’ - aka the big daddy goldfish in a diminished shoal of minnows - but I have never really been tempted by his knives, despite much urging and availability over the past 15 years or so. They strike me as thick, heavy things with little distal taper, often more concerned with appearance rather than function. Rainbow damascus does look nice admittedly, but I have in mind an image of an old man well connected with Takefu steel corp, bashing the latest pre-laminated billets into something resembling a knife. It’s been suggested by unkind observers - not graceful types like me you understand - that his knives are probably thick because he’s a slack dotard too lazy to bash or wheel out the power hammer more.

He may also be at least slightly blind, or how else do you explain the horror of some of his handles. He makes Mr Itou look like the champion of good taste, which is a remarkable feat in itself. The examples below look like props from a 60s set involving the Joker and Riddler, most likely being sneered at by Adam West in unflattering batsuit

Saji. NO


----------



## TokushuKnife

Oshidashi said:


> The best sharpening stones are splash and go with a base. Because people are inherently lazy, especially at the end of a long day. A stone with which you can finish sharpening a knife or two only a couple of minutes after you pull it out of the drawer, is a stone that will be used more often.


I agree mate, have you tried Hap Stanley’s Nano Hone stones? Best splash and go I’ve ever used. Especially 200, 400, and 1000


----------



## Oshidashi

ian said:


> Wrong thread.



I was imagining that the disparagement of soaking stones would be an 'unpopular opinion', but maybe it is not. You are right that leaving stones permanently soaking may not be practical for all of us, and it my case leaving them around in a tub for long in our apartment would result in my wife throwing out my babies with the bathwater.


----------



## ian

Oshidashi said:


> I was imagining that the disparagement of soaking stones would be an 'unpopular opinion', but maybe it is not. You are right that leaving stones permanently soaking may not be practical for all of us, and it my case leaving them around in a tub for long in our apartment would result in my wife throwing out my babies with the bathwater.



You don’t have room for a small plastic container of water? Doesn’t take much more space to store them wet than it does to store them dry. But it does require you to remember to change the water once in a while, unless you’re one of those toilet tank people.


----------



## matchplay18

All right time to air it out great thread


----------



## Oshidashi

ian said:


> You don’t have room for a small plastic container of water? Doesn’t take much more space to store them wet than it does to store them dry. But it does require you to remember to change the water once in a while, unless you’re one of those toilet tank people.


People keep stones in the toilet tank? Hmm...


----------



## stringer

Oshidashi said:


> People keep stones in the toilet tank? Hmm...



I tried that for awhile. Eventually stone dust started leaking down into the bowl from the tank. My wife asked me what it was and I played dumb, but I knew. Then we moved.


----------



## Jville

stringer said:


> I tried that for awhile. Eventually stone dust started leaking down into the bowl from the tank. My wife asked me what it was and I played dumb, but I knew. Then we moved.


Bought you just enough time, pro move.


----------



## stringer

Jville said:


> Bought you just enough time, pro move.


Luckily the stone that was dissolving was a rusty color and not turquoise or bright yellow or something. I said, "Old building, must be the pipes."


----------



## Jovidah

Saji, like Mr Itou, is kinda all over the place aesthethically. Some of it actually looks good IMO, some of it looks like it got an intense beating with the ugly stick. No clue how they perform, but I think when it comes to looks this is all very much personal preference. Some of the stuff I consider hideous actually sold, so someone must be digging it somewhere.


----------



## ian

stringer said:


> I tried that for awhile. Eventually stone dust started leaking down into the bowl from the tank. My wife asked me what it was and I played dumb, but I knew. Then we moved.



Be careful what you say. Given that she bought at knife at the ECG, she may join KKF soon.


----------



## Michi

WiriWiri said:


> The examples below look like props from a 60s set involving the Joker and Riddler, most likely being sneered at by Adam West in unflattering batsuit


You will definitely be unpopular with that opinion


----------



## ian

WiriWiri said:


> The examples below look like props from a 60s set involving the Joker and Riddler, most likely being sneered at by Adam West in unflattering batsuit



Agreed!


----------



## M1k3

Oshidashi said:


> People keep stones in the toilet tank? Hmm...


Yes.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Question for y'all toilet tank users: do you have giant 'american standard' size tanks, or low-flow? The eco model in my apartment struggles enough already, and I imagine displacing that much water would make it unflushable in certain situations


----------



## BillHanna

@spaceconvoy the struggle is real


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

these opinions are not unpopular enough let me try

anyway, a good portion of the advice on this forum are by people on the top left half of this graph (in retrospect, sometimes myself included) that haven't spent enough time on stones, in kitchens, and trying knives to have valuable opinions

on the other hand you have people on the right that gatekeep unnecessarily


----------



## Jville

I like to clean my stones off using the bidet.


----------



## spaceconvoy

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> View attachment 136748
> 
> these opinions are not unpopular enough let me try
> 
> anyway, a good portion of the advice on this forum are by people on the top left half of this graph (in retrospect, sometimes myself included) that haven't spent enough time on stones, in kitchens, and trying knives to have valuable opinions
> 
> on the other hand you have people on the right that gatekeep unnecessarily


The people on the right side of the curve don't spend their time giving advice on internet forums. You get what you pay for ¯\_(ツ)_/¯... at the current sample size of two, your opinion is 100% popular. Please try again  

How about my opinion, the reverse of the old Bill Murray maxim: I'm suspicious of people who don't like cats, but I trust a cat when it doesn't like a person. Dogs can't be trusted, they can be loyal to literal serial killers.


----------



## Kippington

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> View attachment 136748
> 
> these opinions are not unpopular enough let me try
> 
> anyway, a good portion of the advice on this forum are by people on the top left half of this graph (in retrospect, sometimes myself included) that haven't spent enough time on stones, in kitchens, and trying knives to have valuable opinions
> 
> on the other hand you have people on the right that gatekeep unnecessarily


----------



## Barmoley

spaceconvoy said:


> The people on the right side of the curve don't spend their time giving advice on internet forums. You get what you pay for ¯\_(ツ)_/¯... at the current sample size of two, your opinion is 100% popular. Please try again



This part definitely fits with this thread. To say that experts don't share their opinions on internet freely is both unpopular and totally incorrect. Good job.


----------



## M1k3

spaceconvoy said:


> Question for y'all toilet tank users: do you have giant 'american standard' size tanks, or low-flow? The eco model in my apartment struggles enough already, and I imagine displacing that much water would make it unflushable in certain situations


Regular low flow. And only one stone. I imagine two or more stones and I'll run into trouble.


----------



## tostadas

M1k3 said:


> Regular low flow. And only one stone. I imagine two or more stones and I'll run into trouble.


There's extra space in the bowl


----------



## WiriWiri

tostadas said:


> There's extra space in the bowl



There is indeed. Cunningly, if you get some of that blue-coloured lacquer, repurpose a plastic thing into a rim-hanger and hey presto you’ve disguised your whetstone as one of those newfangled Japanese toilet block cleaning devices. It’s oversized admittedly, but it doesn’t have any of that cheapo bleach smell - the latest Japanese ionic cleaning technologies odourlessly descale and clean the water, allegedly

I‘m not sure even Stringer could pull off that wheeze tbh…


----------



## ian

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> View attachment 136748
> 
> these opinions are not unpopular enough let me try
> 
> anyway, a good portion of the advice on this forum are by people on the top left half of this graph (in retrospect, sometimes myself included) that haven't spent enough time on stones, in kitchens, and trying knives to have valuable opinions
> 
> on the other hand you have people on the right that gatekeep unnecessarily



I think I recently got past the sharp corner, and am maybe 1/3 of the way down the hill into the trough. Hard to judge one’s own competence, but assuming linear progress over time, the confidence curve seems completely accurate so far.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

You can still get a knife sharp on a dished stone.


----------



## M1k3

Keith Sinclair said:


> You can still get a knife sharp on a dished stone.


You can still get a knife sharp on a dish.


----------



## Michi

You can still get a knife by breaking a dish. The edges are quite sharp…


----------



## spaceconvoy

"Soooo cool!!"  There's just no accounting for taste. But those of us with good taste should know better than to piss into another man's wheaties. Or at least know the proper place to share our curmudgeonly opinions.


----------



## M1k3

spaceconvoy said:


> View attachment 138379
> 
> "Soooo cool!!"  There's just no accounting for taste. But those of us with good taste should know better than to piss into another man's wheaties. Or at least know the proper place to share our curmudgeonly opinions.


That handle looks unsanitary.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Machi gaps are the al dente pasta of knives.

Not done.


----------



## captaincaed

spaceconvoy said:


> Question for y'all toilet tank users: do you have giant 'american standard' size tanks, or low-flow? The eco model in my apartment struggles enough already, and I imagine displacing that much water would make it unflushable in certain situations


The trick is doubling up on morning coffee, cigarette on really rough days.


----------



## tcmx3

here's one though I dont know how unpopular it will be:

IMO it's much preferable to not be engaged in the buying and selling of any items that are too hot; e.g. Katos, Konosukes, Jiros, etc. I far prefer to buy and sell to/from folks I recognize and who I think understand what the deal with knives is wrt expectations. i.e. Im not a retailer and I dont like dealing with retail customers too much.


----------



## esoo

Highly skilled Damascus can result in some highly fugly knives.


----------



## Jovidah

In general I have to say I don't particularly care about damascus. I understand and appreciate the craftmanship involved, but it's too 'busy' in the aesthethic department for my taste. It's only when you get up to the really exquisite stuff like feather damascus that I occasionally see something I like.


----------



## captaincaed

The one and only


----------



## spaceconvoy

captaincaed said:


> The one and only
> View attachment 139353


Looks like tv static to me


----------



## captaincaed

Harumph


----------



## tcmx3

you wouldnt **** talk damascus if you had to stare down this guy:


----------



## Qapla'

tcmx3 said:


> you wouldnt **** talk damascus if you had to stare down this guy:
> 
> View attachment 139374


What is it, and where was it made?


----------



## tcmx3

Qapla' said:


> What is it, and where was it made?



as per your comment in the other thread about how informed you are, Im sure you can figure it out.


----------



## Jovidah

Whale hunting harpoon? Would probably work for dragons too...


----------



## tcmx3

Jovidah said:


> Whale hunting harpoon? Would probably work for dragons too...



made for killing something far bigger/tougher than whales


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Machi gaps are the al dente pasta of knives.
> 
> Not done.


This is brilliant  Even though I'm not against machi. Not anymore


----------



## esoo

tcmx3 said:


> you wouldnt **** talk damascus if you had to stare down this guy:
> 
> View attachment 139374



If I was staring down that guy, I likely wouldn't notice it's damascus.


----------



## Barmoley

Like Jon from JKI explained in the past machi gap has a purpose.


----------



## Heckel7302

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Machi gaps are the al dente pasta of knives.
> 
> Not done.


 Could say the same about a 1K edge. Toothy, but not done.


----------



## spaceconvoy

I'm including myself in this picture and I still don't like it

Also, machi gaps are just a symptom of the real problem: burn-in handle installation is a barbaric holdover from the past century. Just use hot glue and make the machi flush, it's not rocket appliances


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

spaceconvoy said:


> View attachment 139478
> I'm including myself in this picture and I still don't like it
> 
> Also, machi gaps are just a symptom of the real problem: burn-in handle installation is a barbaric holdover from the past century. Just use hot glue and make the machi flush, it's not rocket appliances



I've been doing forums before there were forums. I'm here for the knives, stones, cooking, etc. and will not engage in those topics. I don't want to ruin any relationships and arguing volatile topics on the internet can do that quickly.

Just say no brother.


----------



## M1k3

Barmoley said:


> Like Jon from JKI explained in the past machi gap has a purpose.


Yes, but, still the gap is unappealing, imo.


----------



## Barmoley

M1k3 said:


> Y
> 
> Yes, but, still the gap is unappealing, imo.


I don't like it either, just pointing out that it is there not because the knife is unfinished......


----------



## refcast

Qapla' said:


> What is it, and where was it made?



shoichi hashimoto damascus





__





Osaka Museum of History


Osaka Museum of History




www.mus-his.city.osaka.jp


----------



## M1k3

Barmoley said:


> I don't like it either, just pointing out that it is there not because the knife is unfinished......


Sounds more like a 'fact' rather than 'unpopular opinion'.


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> View attachment 139478
> I'm including myself in this picture and I still don't like it
> 
> Also, machi gaps are just a symptom of the real problem: burn-in handle installation is a barbaric holdover from the past century. Just use hot glue and make the machi flush, it's not rocket appliances



Hot glue is also effective at preventing covid infection, according to a number of recent studies. One applies it inside the nasal cavity. After the mass hardens, it stops 99.999% of particles from entering the respiratory system through the nose.

But yea, hot glue for the win when installling handles!


----------



## jwthaparc

ian said:


> Hot glue is also effective at preventing covid infection, according to a number of recent studies. One applies it inside the nasal cavity. After the mass hardens, it stops 99.999% of particles from entering the respiratory system through the nose.
> 
> But yea, hot glue for the win when installling handles!


I've heard contact cement is 100% effective. Just apply the adhesive, squeeze your nostrils with your fingers, and let it cure. You won't need to worry about applying again for quite a while.


----------



## M1k3

jwthaparc said:


> I've heard contact cement is 100% effective. Just apply the adhesive, squeeze your nostrils with your fingers, and let it cure. You won't need to worry about applying again for quite a while.


As long as you use enough.


----------



## Michi

spaceconvoy said:


> Looks like tv static to me


Heathen!


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

Barmoley said:


> I don't like it either, just pointing out that it is there not because the knife is unfinished......


ok, this is going to be fun

I wasn't satisfied with Jon's explanation back in 2013 nor I'm satisfied with it now. Being an ignorant dicкhead I'm free to come up with my own explanations. Any my own explanation is simple: lots of Japanese makers/dealers don't even know how to make a good knife. Sounds provocative, so I'm going to dive a bit to provoke you even more 

Let's read first reason that Jon list. It starts with "When the neck of the knife is short". Actually we don't even need to read the rest of paragraph. When bladesmith is unable to make a neck of proper length, it's a freaking bladesmith's fail. Just make things right from the begining. If bladesmith is unable to make a properly sized neck, then he should practice more. Or switch to full tang western designs. Or became a tiktoker and stop wasting metal. 

That's especially true for those N-th generation bullshitsmiths that can't even do a knife from start to finish properly. Forged by mr.Blablabla, sharpened by mr.Blublublu, polished by mr.Blobloblo. Yet the end result can't compete with knives from western makers. Not even freaking close. Mert Tansu started making knives maybe 7-10 years ago. Yet his knives are better ground, better finished and better heat treated than 90% of all that N-th generation Japanese nonsense. And we are talking kitchen knives here. Not arts. If you take a knife from (let say) Mareko Maumasi that would be a totally another league. Have you seen a machi gap on Mareko's knives? Maybe that's because he knows what he is doing and not trying to cut corners everywhere. 

And 'cutting corners' is IMO the only real reason for machi gaps. When one guy forge a hundred blades, another guy put sloppy grind on them, then third guy put a China made handles on them — that's where machi gaps shine. They save time and money. So I'm fine with machi gaps when I see them on mass produced knives. But on something like Shigefusa? Or any other $$$$ knife? That's just makes no sense to me. It's like buying a Ferrari and putting used sloppy wheels from your grandmas Opel. 

There are also custom handle makers who makes machi gaps. I guess there's a special place in hell for them. I'll find it out at some point, as I've done it once or twice myself. I think the only reason for custom handle maker for a machi gap is a direct customer request. 

There are people who like al dente pasta. And there are normal people. Just kidding, Al dente is fine. I mean machi gaps are also fine as long as people talk about personal preferences. Some like them, others not. They save time and allow poorly designed/executed knives to be functional and comfortable. They do have their place in our endless peaceful universe.

So peace and love brothers, peace and love


----------



## jwthaparc

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> ok, this is going to be fun
> 
> I wasn't satisfied with Jon's explanation back in 2013 nor I'm satisfied with it now. Being an ignorant dicкhead I'm free to come up with my own explanations. Any my own explanation is simple: lots of Japanese makers/dealers don't even know how to make a good knife. Sounds provocative, so I'm going to dive a bit to provoke you even more
> 
> Let's read first reason that Jon list. It starts with "When the neck of the knife is short". Actually we don't even need to read the rest of paragraph. When bladesmith is unable to make a neck of proper length, it's a freaking bladesmith's fail. Just make things right from the begining. If bladesmith is unable to make a properly sized neck, then he should practice more. Or switch to full tang western designs. Or became a tiktoker and stop wasting metal.
> 
> That's especially true for those N-th generation bullshitsmiths that can't even do a knife from start to finish properly. Forged by mr.Blablabla, sharpened by mr.Blublublu, polished by mr.Blobloblo. Yet the end result can't compete with knives from western makers. Not even freaking close. Mert Tansu started making knives maybe 7-10 years ago. Yet his knives are better ground, better finished and better heat treated than 90% of all that N-th generation Japanese nonsense. And we are talking kitchen knives here. Not arts. If you take a knife from (let say) Mareko Maumasi that would be a totally another league. Have you seen a machi gap on Mareko's knives? Maybe that's because he knows what he is doing and not trying to cut corners everywhere.
> 
> And 'cutting corners' is IMO the only real reason for machi gaps. When one guy forge a hundred blades, another guy put sloppy grind on them, then third guy put a China made handles on them — that's where machi gaps shine. They save time and money. So I'm fine with machi gaps when I see them on mass produced knives. But on something like Shigefusa? Or any other $$$$ knife? That's just makes no sense to me. It's like buying a Ferrari and putting used sloppy wheels from your grandmas Opel.
> 
> There are also custom handle makers who makes machi gaps. I guess there's a special place in hell for them. I'll find it out at some point, as I've done it once or twice myself. I think the only reason for custom handle maker for a machi gap is a direct customer request.
> 
> There are people who like al dente pasta. And there are normal people. Just kidding, Al dente is fine. I mean machi gaps are also fine as long as people talk about personal preferences. Some like them, others not. They save time and allow poorly designed/executed knives to be functional and comfortable. They do have their place in our endless peaceful universe.
> 
> So peace and love brothers, peace and love


Ooooh provocative


----------



## jwthaparc

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> ok, this is going to be fun
> 
> I wasn't satisfied with Jon's explanation back in 2013 nor I'm satisfied with it now. Being an ignorant dicкhead I'm free to come up with my own explanations. Any my own explanation is simple: lots of Japanese makers/dealers don't even know how to make a good knife. Sounds provocative, so I'm going to dive a bit to provoke you even more
> 
> Let's read first reason that Jon list. It starts with "When the neck of the knife is short". Actually we don't even need to read the rest of paragraph. When bladesmith is unable to make a neck of proper length, it's a freaking bladesmith's fail. Just make things right from the begining. If bladesmith is unable to make a properly sized neck, then he should practice more. Or switch to full tang western designs. Or became a tiktoker and stop wasting metal.
> 
> That's especially true for those N-th generation bullshitsmiths that can't even do a knife from start to finish properly. Forged by mr.Blablabla, sharpened by mr.Blublublu, polished by mr.Blobloblo. Yet the end result can't compete with knives from western makers. Not even freaking close. Mert Tansu started making knives maybe 7-10 years ago. Yet his knives are better ground, better finished and better heat treated than 90% of all that N-th generation Japanese nonsense. And we are talking kitchen knives here. Not arts. If you take a knife from (let say) Mareko Maumasi that would be a totally another league. Have you seen a machi gap on Mareko's knives? Maybe that's because he knows what he is doing and not trying to cut corners everywhere.
> 
> And 'cutting corners' is IMO the only real reason for machi gaps. When one guy forge a hundred blades, another guy put sloppy grind on them, then third guy put a China made handles on them — that's where machi gaps shine. They save time and money. So I'm fine with machi gaps when I see them on mass produced knives. But on something like Shigefusa? Or any other $$$$ knife? That's just makes no sense to me. It's like buying a Ferrari and putting used sloppy wheels from your grandmas Opel.
> 
> There are also custom handle makers who makes machi gaps. I guess there's a special place in hell for them. I'll find it out at some point, as I've done it once or twice myself. I think the only reason for custom handle maker for a machi gap is a direct customer request.
> 
> There are people who like al dente pasta. And there are normal people. Just kidding, Al dente is fine. I mean machi gaps are also fine as long as people talk about personal preferences. Some like them, others not. They save time and allow poorly designed/executed knives to be functional and comfortable. They do have their place in our endless peaceful universe.
> 
> So peace and love brothers, peace and love


In all seriousness your totally right, and I feel like there are more examples of cut corners on insanely expensive knives than just machi gaps.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> ...Forged by mr.Blablabla, sharpened by mr.Blublublu, polished by mr.Blobloblo...




Now that's funny right there.


----------



## sansho

tcmx3 said:


> made for killing something far bigger/tougher than whales



yep. i bet you could kill an angel with that thing. in orbit.


----------



## btbyrd

Lao Gan Ma chili crisp is bad. Uses way too much MSG and tastes like cheap bouillon cubes.


----------



## MarcelNL

I wonder; is there an easy way to make it, skipping the MSG?

edit: apparently so...
Homemade Spicy Chili Crisp Recipe


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

btbyrd said:


> Lao Gan Ma chili crisp is bad. Uses way too much MSG and tastes like cheap bouillon cubes.


The original/most popular Lao Gan Ma is the Black Bean Chili Sauce. I don't like the chili crisp either.


----------



## MarcelNL

I like and use both probably equally much, I'll see if I can find the chillies and try making some.


----------



## btbyrd

I'd make it myself if it wasn't so time consuming. Having a mandoline helps expedite the thinly sliced shallots and garlic, but it's still kind of a pain. And I'd be left with a bunch of chilis and spices I have no other use for. Someone on the Serious Eats recipe suggested making a double batch, which is not a bad idea. But still. I don't like it enough to go through the effort. There are other brands of chili crisp I do enjoy, but they're expensive for what they are.


----------



## MarcelNL

it probably keeps well, so I may give it a go as we go through quite a few of these jars with all the Sichuan cooking I do.


----------



## Ochazuke

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> ok, this is going to be fun
> 
> I wasn't satisfied with Jon's explanation back in 2013 nor I'm satisfied with it now. Being an ignorant dicкhead I'm free to come up with my own explanations. Any my own explanation is simple: lots of Japanese makers/dealers don't even know how to make a good knife. Sounds provocative, so I'm going to dive a bit to provoke you even more
> 
> Let's read first reason that Jon list. It starts with "When the neck of the knife is short". Actually we don't even need to read the rest of paragraph. When bladesmith is unable to make a neck of proper length, it's a freaking bladesmith's fail. Just make things right from the begining. If bladesmith is unable to make a properly sized neck, then he should practice more. Or switch to full tang western designs. Or became a tiktoker and stop wasting metal.
> 
> That's especially true for those N-th generation bullshitsmiths that can't even do a knife from start to finish properly. Forged by mr.Blablabla, sharpened by mr.Blublublu, polished by mr.Blobloblo. Yet the end result can't compete with knives from western makers. Not even freaking close. Mert Tansu started making knives maybe 7-10 years ago. Yet his knives are better ground, better finished and better heat treated than 90% of all that N-th generation Japanese nonsense. And we are talking kitchen knives here. Not arts. If you take a knife from (let say) Mareko Maumasi that would be a totally another league. Have you seen a machi gap on Mareko's knives? Maybe that's because he knows what he is doing and not trying to cut corners everywhere.
> 
> And 'cutting corners' is IMO the only real reason for machi gaps. When one guy forge a hundred blades, another guy put sloppy grind on them, then third guy put a China made handles on them — that's where machi gaps shine. They save time and money. So I'm fine with machi gaps when I see them on mass produced knives. But on something like Shigefusa? Or any other $$$$ knife? That's just makes no sense to me. It's like buying a Ferrari and putting used sloppy wheels from your grandmas Opel.
> 
> There are also custom handle makers who makes machi gaps. I guess there's a special place in hell for them. I'll find it out at some point, as I've done it once or twice myself. I think the only reason for custom handle maker for a machi gap is a direct customer request.
> 
> There are people who like al dente pasta. And there are normal people. Just kidding, Al dente is fine. I mean machi gaps are also fine as long as people talk about personal preferences. Some like them, others not. They save time and allow poorly designed/executed knives to be functional and comfortable. They do have their place in our endless peaceful universe.
> 
> So peace and love brothers, peace and love


So I actually won't buy a yanagiba without a machi. It's actually a super useful feature for pros. Notice a couple key points: you've never seen a deba with a machi, right? If it was shoddy workmanship I'm sure you would have seen at least one, right?

Of the many ways of holding sashimibochi, one of the more old school ways is to grasp the handle rather than the knife and have your index finger resting at the 2 o'clock position of a D or octagonal handle (notice also that for older makers of yanagiba that you're not likely to see an oval handle). So we wouldn't hold the knife blade itself or do the pointer finger on the spine thing (to be clear: there are plenty of chefs who hold knives in those styles and there's nothing wrong with it). 

Now the reason that machi helps with this particular, older style of grip is that you're using entirely the weight of the knife to do the cut. If the balance is off it gets more difficult. Having a big machi means there's a lot of room to adjust as you sharpen your knife and adjust the balance point. This is also done with usuba. That's why you see machi on usuba and yanagiba. 

Nobody in their right mind would hold a deba with this particular grip which is why there is no machi on deba. 

Of course styles change a lot and different areas do things differently. But it was a thing that a lot of older sushi chefs actually asked for because it was useful. I think the reason it's not popular in America is because 99% of sushi chefs aren't trained by Japanese sushi chefs, don't hold the knives in this style, and don't know the reason for it themselves. Even Japanese people doing sushi in America are very rarely trained by old school Japanese sushi chefs. Most of the ones I meet are just regular immigrants or 二世 who happen to sushi because they can get a job doing it and have never had classic training.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I like the design that makes the neck wider than the tang, but I don’t like the machi gap. The wider neck makes the spine lining up with the handle better. This is where I think my Kato is better than my Toyama. Kato’s neck is so wide that it feels very comfy/ample for pinch grip, but Kato doesn’t leave a machi gap. Shig sells a lot yanagibas but I’ve never seen one with a machi gap. I’ve rehandled my Shig gyuto so I know his neck even for gyuto is wider than the tang, but his handle is installed all the way through. No gap left either. I don’t believe in the balance thing. Many high end yanagibas use expensive hard wood handle which screws the balance way much than having a machi gap or not. The size and material of the handle play way much important role than machi gap in the balance given the same blade and tang.


----------



## Ochazuke

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I like the design that makes the neck wider than the tang, but I don’t like the machi gap. The wider neck makes the spine lining up with the handle better. This is where I think my Kato is better than my Toyama. Kato’s neck is so wide that it feels very comfy/ample for pinch grip, but Kato doesn’t leave a machi gap. Shig sells a lot yanagibas but I’ve never seen one with a machi gap. I’ve rehandled my Shig gyuto so I know his neck even for gyuto is wider than the tang, but his handle is installed all the way through. No gap left either. I don’t believe in the balance thing. Many high end yanagibas use expensive hard wood handle which screws the balance way much than having a machi gap or not. The size and material of the handle play way much important role than machi gap in the balance given the same blade and tang.
> 
> View attachment 140239


haha, I think it’s like spoilers for cars. It had a purpose once, then somebody thought it looked cool and now you find them in all sorts of places where they don’t make much sense.

That’s why you see machi on ebony handled gyuto and spoilers on minivans 

Like I said, this is kind of an old school design feature so it was implemented back before any fancy handles were a thing. The overwhelming majority of sushi chefs in Japan use ho wood for their yanagiba handles including myself. 

Keep in mind it was also a very regional thing too. It’s definitely a product of Tokyo chefs. The only reason I know about it because I was trained by a chef from Tsukiji.


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

Ochazuke said:


> So I actually won't buy a yanagiba without a machi. It's actually a super useful feature for pros. Notice a couple key points: you've never seen a deba with a machi, right? If it was shoddy workmanship I'm sure you would have seen at least one, right?


This is the most satisfying explanation of machi gaps I've seen to date. Something that actually makes sense!


----------



## agp

If you are at fault for a car accident and it caused a traffic back up, you/your insurance ought to compensate those affected for their time, gas, and wear and tear on the car from idling.


----------



## rickbern

agp said:


> If you are at fault for a car accident and it caused a traffic back up, you/your insurance ought to compensate those affected for their time, gas, and wear and tear on the car from idling.


Car hit a motorcycle on the Brooklyn bridge this morning, this was the cab driver one car in front of me, we were sitting for a half an hour. Bet he agrees with you


----------



## MarcelNL

half an hour, pah...I've been driving around and driven around Manhattan when traffic was so crazy it literally took a detour of 15 or so miles zigzagging up and down through streets and avenues to get to the west side. Even without accidents everyone driving there ought to be compensated.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Y'all are wishing for a world where lawyers dominate. Try to embrace the chaos instead. Also, curious if you think this idea should be extended to victims of climate change


----------



## MarcelNL

I secretly (almost) wish for a lawyer-less world...far too often and far too easy people get all hot and bothered and lawyer up for issues so trivial that I expect a judge to laugh it out of court, sadly that hardly happens.


----------



## tcmx3

spaceconvoy said:


> Y'all are wishing for a world where lawyers dominate. Try to embrace the chaos instead. Also, curious if you think this idea should be extended to victims of climate change



uh... they already do.

I have lawyers for my taxes, in the case I get a traffic ticket, for dealing with inheritances, dealing with property ownership, etc. etc. etc. it just goes on and on.

we may not like them but things dont function without them.


----------



## MarcelNL

a lawyer for taxes, for a traffic ticket....you do not even need one for a divorce, at least where I live.


----------



## tcmx3

MarcelNL said:


> a lawyer for taxes, for a traffic ticket....you do not even need one for a divorce, at least where I live.



they pay for themselves very quickly.

especially the tax lawyers.


----------



## Jovidah

If a lawyer for traffic ticket pays for himself then maybe it's time to change your driving habbits...


----------



## rickbern

tcmx3 said:


> they pay for themselves very quickly.
> 
> especially the tax lawyers.


Divorce lawyers too


----------



## MarcelNL

I mean, I see how things can get to the point where you need a lawyer, but in most cases they surely can be avoided....

A tax lawyer? I have an accountant that is pretty good, as a freelancer even when working internationally things do not get as complicated that I need a lawyer....yet 


driving tickets, who is driving in a lockdown  and when I feel the need for real speed I pop over to the Autobahn tp let it rip where possible.

Divorce lawyer, yeah I hear you.....someone I worked with said 'you know why getting a divorce is so expensive?"...nope I said as I really had no experience at that time..... his comeback was 'because it's worth it' 

A divorce later I get what he said


----------



## rickbern

MarcelNL said:


> I mean, I see how things can get to the point where you need a lawyer, but in most cases they surely can be avoided....
> 
> A tax lawyer? I have an accountant that is pretty good, as a freelancer even when working internationally things do not get as complicated that I need a lawyer....yet
> 
> 
> driving tickets, who is driving in a lockdown  and when I feel the need for real speed I pop over to the Autobahn tp let it rip where possible.
> 
> Divorce lawyer, yeah I hear you.....someone I worked with said 'you know why getting a divorce is so expensive?"...nope I said as I really had no experience at that time..... his comeback was 'because it's worth it'
> 
> A divorce later I get what he said


If you’re in a situation where one more traffic ticket will revoke your driving privileges and by extension your livelihood, a lawyer to overturn a speeding ticket could be a gigantic bargain.


----------



## tcmx3

rickbern said:


> If you’re in a situation where one more traffic ticket will revoke your driving privileges and by extension your livelihood, a lawyer to overturn a speeding ticket could be a gigantic bargain.



I mean the reality is even the difference between 0 and 1 is pretty big. Insurance, points, etc. etc. Much easier to just pay the fine and have it go in as a non-moving violation.

FWIW I havent actually gotten pulled over since like 2013? 2014? I will admit it helps that Im not being a early 20s year old in an M3 anymore, but still, best to have one ready to go.

Sadly I have still had to pay taxes every year though.



MarcelNL said:


> A tax lawyer? I have an accountant that is pretty good, as a freelancer even when working internationally things do not get as complicated that I need a lawyer....yet



you would not believe what the tax lawyers can get away with.

when I was younger I visited my grandfather around tax season. he pulled out a box full of papers and for the day we drove down to the office where his lawyer worked. he simply dropped the box on the table, made some small talk and we left. he told me on the way home he paid 10,000 dollars a year, and he estimated his tax bill was 100,000 lower. you dont get that kind of ROI everywhere. anyway I learned a valuable lesson that day about who the system is set up to benefit and if it's you how you do that. I will say I dont get that kind of return but such services have never been worse for me than break-even, so you might as well.


----------



## MarcelNL

rickbern said:


> If you’re in a situation where one more traffic ticket will revoke your driving privileges and by extension your livelihood, a lawyer to overturn a speeding ticket could be a gigantic bargain.


sure, so far I have been able to avoid those cases as I like to have some control over my life rather than having to hope a lawyer can get me out of the predicament I managed myself into.


----------



## MarcelNL

if your tax bill can be lowered by paying 100.000 it means that your income is stellar, and that you now pay like 500K or so rather than 600K.....that is indeed where tax lawyers come into play.


----------



## Delat

rickbern said:


> Car hit a motorcycle on the Brooklyn bridge this morning, this was the cab driver one car in front of me, we were sitting for a half an hour. Bet he agrees with you
> 
> View attachment 140740



So I have a traffic accident story. Driving home from Vegas with the family, about a 5 hour drive. 45 mins from home, 1/8th tank of gas remaining, 110F, getting ready to exit the highway. Traffic comes to a complete stop when I’m about 300 yards from my exit. 

Sit idling for a while with the a/c until I become concerned about running out of gas, so we have to sit and swelter in the heat. Literally 3 hours later cops drive down the shoulder and tell everybody to turn around. Everybody reverses around and goes back to the previous exit to get off the highway.

Found out later some numbnut cut off a tractor trailer causing a rollover and a fatality. I think the investigation took 8+ hours.


----------



## MarcelNL

WOW, do they do everything that is needed with all folks sitting around in their car!  

I have been stopped and sitting in my car on the Autobahn seeing the trauma chopper land on the other side of the road and still be able to continue in an hour or two....driving away humbled and much slower and all that, but still.


----------



## spaceconvoy

The best thing about nakiris is how discussing them reveals who is insecure about their peepee


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

spaceconvoy said:


> The best thing about nakiris is how discussing them reveals who is insecure about their peepee


Do you mean it's not the nakiri length, but knife skills that's important?


----------



## Dhoff

I'd like to give you a tip on nakiris, but its hard.


----------



## BillHanna

Dhoff said:


> I'd like to give you a tip on nakiris, but its hard.


Psshhh. That’s bunk(a).


----------



## M1k3

Dhoff said:


> I'd like to give you a tip on nakiris, but its hard.


Yeah, it's kind of pointless.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

spaceconvoy said:


> The best thing about nakiris is how discussing them reveals who is insecure about their peepee



You want to see mine?




My nakiri I mean. Sheesh.


----------



## agp

Mandatory voting and simple majority democracy.


----------



## btbyrd

Ugh. That's too much popular opinion.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

Using a ceramic rod on a knife counts as sharpening.


----------



## M1k3

applepieforbreakfast said:


> Using a ceramic rod on a knife counts as sharpening.


And a couple of edge leading strokes on a stone?


----------



## applepieforbreakfast

M1k3 said:


> And a couple of edge leading strokes on a stone?



Is the knife sharper than it was before?


----------



## M1k3

applepieforbreakfast said:


> Is the knife sharper than it was before?


Depends on the user.


----------



## esoo

S-grinds are a compromise that should only be on nakiri.


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

esoo said:


> S-grinds are a compromise that should only be on nakiri.


I think nothing can beat a properly executed S grind. Well maybe a double or triple S grind


----------



## spaceconvoy

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> I think nothing can beat a properly executed S grind. Well maybe a double or triple S grind







Behold, perfection.


----------



## esoo

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> I think nothing can beat a properly executed S grind. Well maybe a double or triple S grind



An S-grind is a compromise to improve food release. The deeper behind the edge, the better the food release. But that causes two problems:
- the tip sucks as it is thicker than a proper convex or wide bevel by design (unless you do what @KAMON Knives does, and that to me is just trying a band-aid on the compromise). 
- if it is too thick it wedges (think the issues with certain generation Takedas) 

Further is that every thinning reduces the effectiveness of the the grind (as you was slowly remove the depth of the s). At some point, you'll lose the s completely and then have to figure out how to re-grind the blade.

So to solve the s-grind compromise, it should be on nakiri made of a very wear resistant steel (so little thinning needed). Something like a Rex-121 nakiri would fit the bill.

Good technique with with a convex/wide bevel will get you to the same place a s-grind does.


----------



## xxxclx

spaceconvoy said:


> View attachment 141996
> 
> Behold, perfection.



I'm surprised they didn't include "ribbed for your cutting pleasure" on the box


----------



## esoo

spaceconvoy said:


> View attachment 141996
> 
> Behold, perfection.



Needs some grantons - I think stuff might stick.


----------



## chefwp

spaceconvoy said:


> View attachment 141996
> 
> Behold, perfection.


I contacted the maker about our next massdrop, more to follow...


----------



## spaceconvoy

esoo said:


> Needs some grantons - I think stuff might stick.


Grantons would ruin the aesthetic, how about vertical S-grinds? Or better yet, tightly spaced tri-directional S-grinds!


----------



## esoo

spaceconvoy said:


> Grantons would ruin the aesthetic, how about vertical S-grinds? Or better yet, tightly spaced tri-directional S-grinds!
> View attachment 142012



I think Chelsea Miller has already patented this though....


----------



## captaincaed

edit: I respect the hell out of her for making it happen. She has just what a lot of people want, and she's not taking candy from anyone else. I'm with you, Chelsea. 

...but I'll take my own knives "grater-less" thank you.


----------



## esoo

captaincaed said:


> View attachment 142082



Well Masaki is very busy as an OEM these days....


----------



## juice

spaceconvoy said:


> Behold, perfection.


It's just embarrassing. I have decided to blame the recent Solidteknics push into the US for that thing.


----------



## Kippington

spaceconvoy said:


> View attachment 141996
> 
> Behold, perfection.


Carbon steel, cast and cold forged? That hurts my brain so much.


----------



## M1k3

Kippington said:


> Carbon steel, cast and cold forged? That hurts my brain so much.


But you're cool with the 'corrugated' part?


----------



## Kippington

M1k3 said:


> But you're cool with the 'corrugated' part?


Well that part at least makes a bit of sense. The steel part of the description is like saying: Push bike - Four wheel drive - Electric motor


----------



## Kippington

Actually, it's bugging me enough to call in some bigger brains. @Larrin - Is it reasonable to cast and cold forge a carbon steel? I feel like I'm totally missing something here...


----------



## spaceconvoy

It's not corrugated, it's an SSSSSSS-grind!


----------



## tcmx3

spaceconvoy said:


> It's not corrugated, it's an SSSSSSS-grind!



more S' than a late arc episode of Dragon Ball.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

*hello and welcome to this rant:*​
if you're a baller out here with a different knife for every week and just want to buy a new one when the OTB edge then you're too cool for this message please ignore

buuuuuuuuut anywayzzz

folks need to learn to sharpen knives well

if you're unable to get a clean paper towel cutting edge then your knife isn't sharp enough 

it's not

and it's never been sharp

all OTB edges I've had have sucked without exception and a sharp edge goes a long way in changing the character of a knife esp. through things like tomatoes, peppers, etc. 

LEARN TO SHARPEN YOUR KNIVES

it's like buying a ferrari and then not knowing how to fill it with gas (hamaguri/bevel polishing and thinning is like oil changes or something idk but we digress)

of course again if you're too cool 4 everyone and have a different ferrari (knife, per this analogy) every week like i said above then again I wish I were you this isn't about you have a good day sirs and ma'ams

just take a shiddy swedish carbon or stainless knife and sharpen on a 1k every day till you can pass the paper towel test without a strop or something

my suspicion is that a lot of folks are like oh simple carbon has poor edge retention and stuff because they don't sharpen fast enough and can only get their knives to max 69.420% sharpness (or some arbitrary number, idk u pick), which then decays super fast because they don't have a clean edge (rounded, not deburred, etc.)

ALSO PLEASE JUST
USE A KOBA AND/OR HAMAGURI THE BEVEL BEFORE KNOCKING A STEEL FOR BEING TOO CHIPPY 
maybe watch your technique too 
66 HRC white 1 sharpened to a super ultra thin bevel isn't meant to be wiggled around and slammed against the board 

o mai god 


o mai god


also not really part of the rant but kitchen pros - if you can afford it why don't ya'll go vitrified diamond, like 1k and 4k. drastically decreases the time to sharpen. not sure why this isn't a more popular thing.



*okplsthxkbai*


----------



## Larrin

Forged steel is generally superior to cast so I would not see cast steel as a selling point.


----------



## Kippington

Larrin said:


> Forged steel is generally superior to cast so I would not see cast steel as a selling point.


This is where I see them saying, "Yes, that's why we cold forge after casting."


----------



## WiriWiri

Kippington said:


> This is where I see them saying, "Yes, we cold forge after casting."



I think you may be using too much reason here. This is where I see them saying ”Balls, we need a fifth ’c’ for the dubious C5 PowerBranding and we’ve already used up ‘corrugated;”


----------



## juice

Look, the Furi knives they make are AWFUL, so I'd expect this to be similar, irrespective of their marketing terms (or perhaps their marketing reflects the fact that the make awesome pans and have zero idea about knives


----------



## choochoochop

Not a fan of vendors who open a supporting membership account to bypass the mimimums and set up shop in BST.


----------



## M1k3

choochoochop said:


> Not a fan of vendors who open a supporting membership account to bypass the mimimums and set up shop in BST.


Sounds like a popular opinion. Or should be.


----------



## Michi

choochoochop said:


> Not a fan of vendors who open a supporting membership account to bypass the mimimums and set up shop in BST.


Wealth hath its privileges. What else is new?


----------



## Knivperson

I think Bryan Raquins knives are boring.


----------



## crockerculinary

Knivperson said:


> I think Bryan Raquins knives are boring.


 have you ever used one?


----------



## BillHanna

OH OH! I THINK RAQUINS ARE BORING AS WELL. SOMEONE SHOULD MAKE ME TRY ONE. PUIG SUCKS TOO. (did it work?)


----------



## spaceconvoy

Not necessarily boring, but lazy (which is boring). Any maker who doesn't remove the KU is lazy. If it's not kasumi/migaki, it's an unfinished knife.


----------



## BillHanna

Nashiji is the best finish


----------



## Rangen

All knives that I have not tried yet and that I might possibly be tempted by are boring. By definition. It's kind of a defense mechanism for my wallet.


----------



## Knivperson

Actually I think one of those biohazard Myojin handles could make the Raquin gyutos cheer the **** up. (never used either)


----------



## tostadas

spaceconvoy said:


> Not necessarily boring, but lazy (which is boring). Any maker who doesn't remove the KU is lazy. If it's not kasumi/migaki, it's an unfinished knife.


How about only KU?


----------



## Jville

Knivperson said:


> I think Bryan Raquins knives are boring.


What’s boring about them?


Knivperson said:


> Actually I think one of those biohazard Myojin handles could make the Raquin gyutos cheer the **** up. (never used either)


Dont you dare put one of those fugly handles on them. I Love Raquin handles, rustic yet super comfy, feel well balanced, wonderful handles.


----------



## Jville

spaceconvoy said:


> Not necessarily boring, but lazy (which is boring). Any maker who doesn't remove the KU is lazy. If it's not kasumi/migaki, it's an unfinished knife.


This comment is lazy.


----------



## Knivperson

I think this thing about Raquin is maybe the most unpopular opinion yet .

Better be serious to not be excommunicated from kfs. I think the look of the blade is a bit boring with the ku finish. Sometimes the edge is beautiful. Like the handles too.


----------



## M1k3

Honyaki is a half finished mono steel blade.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Knivperson said:


> I think this thing about Raquin is maybe the most unpopular opinion yet .
> 
> ...



Were you in on the Great Machi Debate? Woosh. People have some strong opinions about gaps.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Wild duck is nasty and best used for dogfood and fertilizer.

Yes, I did grow up hunting them and as soon as I was old enough to not have to go with my dad to hunt those flying mud fish, I stopped. Now, a nice roasted pheasant or grouse, I'm all in.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

If it helps @Lars , you make it look fantastic!


----------



## KnightKnightForever

Monosteel stainless knives are boring and lack soul.


----------



## Lars

HumbleHomeCook said:


> If it helps @Lars , you make it look fantastic!


It helps a bit


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

spaceconvoy said:


> Not necessarily boring, but lazy (which is boring). Any maker who doesn't remove the KU is lazy. If it's not kasumi/migaki, it's an unfinished knife.


I'd say leaving rough grinder marks on bevels is lazy. Especially if knife is selling at premium price level. In fact I wouldn't accept anything besides hand polish on any expensive knife. 

KU finish? It's awesome


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

KnightKnightForever said:


> Monosteel stainless knives are boring and lack soul.


Only cause they don't require you to baby sit them? Do you believe that chrome content removes any traces of sould from the blade?


----------



## WiriWiri

Few here would argue in favour of child labour, which is rightfully seen as something best avoided, So why then KKF folks, are we so complacent to the OAP-torturing antics present in much Japanese knife production. Wrinkled pensioners of truly advanced ages - when they should really be sucking boiled Werther‘s originals and boring young people in peace - are literally being toasted near blast furnaces and encouraged to bash blades until their brittle bones break, all because seniority tends to mean higher prices for collectors and their bosses

It’s brutal and nobody should fall for this craftsmen ‘too dedicated to retire’ nonsense. Shadowy cabals in Sakai round up and extort these pensioners, squeezing their elderly pips and threatening them with a life in Takefu Knife concentration camp City if they don‘t comply. These craftsmen aren’t often credited by their Sakai masters, not because of commercial obligations, but because their advanced ages and corpse-like appearances could scare away buyers. I even hear rumours that Masama Asai was actually dead for 4 years, operated as an animatronic puppet, just so _they_ could get more of a return on his reputation (and make an example of him for his impudence). No wonder Yamamoto seems to have become reclusive and mostly downed tools in recent years.

We should really take a little more care. The guilt is even beginning to get to a heartless wanker like me.


----------



## M1k3

Ginsanko = 
AEB-H = 
AEB-L =


----------



## tostadas

Shun makes some of the most comfortable shaped handles of all knives I've tried.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> Ginsanko =
> AEB-H =
> AEB-L =




Do you need glasses?


----------



## M1k3

tostadas said:


> Shun makes some of the most comfortable shaped handles of all knives I've tried.


Shun handle + moisture = slip n slide


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Do you need glasses?


CPM A11 > 10v


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> CPM A11 > 10v



Kids. Whatever. All I know is 20CV is way better than M390 and M390 is better than 204P.


----------



## Barmoley

M1k3 said:


> K294 > PM A11 > CPM 10v


----------



## EricEricEric

The knife and stone market is highly overpriced, and the market is starting to respond by not buying at previous prices 

I’ve been watching BST pile up as sellers keep lowering price and complaining items aren’t selling

I believe we are on our way to a very strong devaluation in the very near future


----------



## Jville

EricEricEric said:


> The knife and stone market is highly overpriced, and the market is starting to respond by not buying at previous prices
> 
> I’ve been watching BST pile up as sellers keep lowering price and complaining items aren’t selling
> 
> I believe we are on our way to a very strong devaluation in the very near future


Part of that is flipping. More people are starting to push back some. Of course, it still happens.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

EricEricEric said:


> The knife and stone market is highly overpriced, and the market is starting to respond by not buying at previous prices
> 
> I’ve been watching BST pile up as sellers keep lowering price and complaining items aren’t selling
> 
> I believe we are on our way to a very strong devaluation in the very near future



Do you mean custom knives and J-natural stones or across the board?


----------



## Rangen

EricEricEric said:


> The knife and stone market is highly overpriced, and the market is starting to respond by not buying at previous prices
> 
> I’ve been watching BST pile up as sellers keep lowering price and complaining items aren’t selling
> 
> I believe we are on our way to a very strong devaluation in the very near future



Nice contrarian post. I also read with interest your other post, about how we maybe should all be using sword stones to sharpen our knives. If that sounds like I am ribbing you, it's not. For all I know it could be the best wisdom I've heard in two years. I couldn't possibly know, without my hands on some of those stones.

It would be a bit odd to see this happening just when inflation is turning the screw. But I guess any market will wax and wane.

I am helping undergird the market, I guess, with one BST knive just arrived, and one stone arriving (I hope) Wednesday. Should I say "you're welcome?"


----------



## spaceconvoy

I'm shocked that a member who named themselves after a misspelled neofascist cultural touchstone and a professionally duplicitous chauvinist would turn out to be acting in bad faith


----------



## tcmx3

EricEricEric said:


> The knife and stone market is highly overpriced, and the market is starting to respond by not buying at previous prices
> 
> I’ve been watching BST pile up as sellers keep lowering price and complaining items aren’t selling
> 
> I believe we are on our way to a very strong devaluation in the very near future



knives for sure.

JNats? sadly I think it's more likely to happen in my dreams than real life. that said, if anyone wants to unload some end game stones at 2015 or even 2017 prices please DM me my credit card and body are ready


----------



## tcmx3

play by the rules or dont BST seems simple enough to me.

also dont try to avoid taxes.

idgaf anymore Im just gonna add anyone who complains to my ignore because after seeing multiple incidents it's safest just to assume that anyone who carps about G&S is a risk to deal with. anyone who has dealt with me knows that if you ask me to pay fees I will too **** this is driving me up the wall.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Tomatoes? Bah, screw them. Peppers and celery are the real edge tattle tales.


----------



## ian

Celery?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> Celery?



Yeah. If I cut it from the back it often wants to split as much or more than slice. At least the fat ends.


----------



## Rangen

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Yeah. If I cut it from the back it often wants to split as much or more than slice. At least the fat ends.



That...never happens to me. Are you using that weird narrow bitter super-green organic celery, or the usual pale green watery huge stuff?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Oh no... I have a weird celery thing...



Stop looking at me!


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Rangen said:


> That...never happens to me. Are you using that weird narrow bitter super-green organic celery, or the usual pale green watery huge stuff?



In all seriousness, maybe it's just the tactile sensation. I cut it fine, but it feels like it wants to split but I guess it never actually does. Flip it over and cut from the curved side and I don't notice anything.


----------



## ian

Hmm, if it’s splitting instead of slicing cleanly, I feel like that’s more of a thin-ness behind the edge problem than an edge problem. Or maybe I haven’t been paying attention. I just feel like all my knives cut celery fine, dull or sharp. But everyone picks up on different parts of the cutting experience!


----------



## BillHanna

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Oh no... I have a weird celery thing...
> 
> 
> 
> Stop looking at me!


Cut it from the back….


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> Hmm, if it’s splitting instead of slicing cleanly, I feel like that’s more of a thin-ness behind the edge problem than an edge problem. Or maybe I haven’t been paying attention. I just feel like all my knives cut celery fine, dull or sharp. But everyone picks up on different parts of the cutting experience!



Well now I opened my digital mouth and just gotta pay more attention. Like I say, it's not like a carrot wanting to split. It sometimes feels, I don't know, like maybe it wants to pop before it slices.

So anyways... About them tomatoes. They can sure be a ***** to slice huh?


----------



## ian

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Well now I opened my digital mouth and just gotta pay more attention. Like I say, it's not like a carrot wanting to split. It sometimes feels, I don't know, like maybe it wants to pop before it slices.
> 
> So anyways... About them tomatoes. They can sure be a ***** to slice huh?



Eh, whatever. I like it when people have different cutting experiences than I do. Gonna pay attention to how celery feels from the back next time.


----------



## M1k3

Celeriac > Celery

P.S. turn over the celery


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> Eh, whatever. I like it when people have different cutting experiences than I do. Gonna pay attention to how celery feels from the back next time.



It might actually be my propensity for rather vertical push cuts too. I could stand to introduce a bit more slice.


----------



## ian

M1k3 said:


> Celeriac > Celery
> 
> P.S. turn over the celery



Cilantro roots > cilantro leaves

Kaffir limes > @M1k3 > everything else


----------



## M1k3

ian said:


> Cilantro roots > cilantro


I'm more of a coriander guy. Thanks though.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> Celeriac > Celery
> 
> P.S. turn over the celery



Celeriac! Man I remember having to buy that powdered stuff for the girls when they were babies. Criminally expensive!

Wait...


----------



## heldentenor

Sujihikis are redundant if you have the right gyutos.


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Celeriac! Man I remember having to buy that powdered stuff for the girls when they were babies. Criminally expensive!
> 
> Wait...


 Celery OD?


----------



## ian

heldentenor said:


> Sujihikis are redundant if you have the right gyutos.



Are your gyutos 38mm tall?


----------



## M1k3

heldentenor said:


> Sujihikis are redundant if you have the right gyutos.


So are paring, debas and other assorted knives. In fact THE grail knife is....



@Isasmedjan Serb-Ian Clever!


----------



## ian

Man, I have to say that @isasmedjan’s Serbians are pretty amazing looking. They have a refinement that’s unusual for that kind of knife, and they seem to actually be that perfect knife that does combine the useful features of a gyuto and a cleaver, unlike a lot of other Serbians that are worse than either. I think his books might be open right now, at least for Serbians since he’s trying to make that one of his new specialities. You can PM him on the forum, or DM him on Instagram. Just put Serbian Cleaver somewhere in the title, so he can prioritize your message.


----------



## Barmoley

heldentenor said:


> Sujihikis are redundant if you have the right gyutos.


Anything you can do with gyuto you can do with a suji and experience better food release.


----------



## Delat

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Well now I opened my digital mouth and just gotta pay more attention. Like I say, it's not like a carrot wanting to split. It sometimes feels, I don't know, like maybe it wants to pop before it slices.
> 
> So anyways... About them tomatoes. They can sure be a ***** to slice huh?



I think the fat part that fans out near the root is actually under a bit of tension with the sides pulling outward from the middle. Do a longitudinal slice (i.e. in the direction of the fibers) down the middle and you’ll see the stalk split apart to the left and right of the cut.

When you cut crosswise from the convex part there’s less material holding the middle together so it wants to split. Cut from the back/concave side and you’re first severing the parts that are exerting the outward force, so no splitting.

I just made all that up but it seems to align with my observations.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Sticking to my "in all seriousness" theme... How the hell do you pronounce Isasmedjan? Every time I read it I try but I'm genuinely not sure how to say it in my head.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Delat said:


> I think the fat part that fans out near the root is actually under a bit of tension with the sides pulling outward from the middle. Do a longitudinal slice (i.e. in the direction of the fibers) down the middle and you’ll see the stalk split apart to the left and right of the cut.
> 
> When you cut crosswise from the convex part there’s less material holding the middle together so it wants to split. Cut from the back/concave side and you’re first severing the parts that are exerting the outward force, so no splitting.
> 
> I just made all that up but it seems to align with my observations.



Ha! Science and vindication!


----------



## ian

Ee sahs maid yan, iirc?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Barmoley said:


> Anything you can do with gyuto you can do with a suji and experience better food release.


Once cut my middle finger chopping onions with my suji. The blood did release well. I have huge respect for all the Japanese chefs who do everything with Yanagiba just fine.


----------



## ian

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Ha! Science and vindication!



Heh but weren’t you talking about a difference between a fresh and nonfresh edge just on the concave side, instead of concave vs convex side?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> Heh but weren’t you talking about a difference between a fresh and nonfresh edge just on the concave side, instead of concave vs convex side?




Um... Russia... wall wracks... I put it in the thread title...


----------



## Rangen

HumbleHomeCook said:


> It might actually be my propensity for rather vertical push cuts too. I could stand to introduce a bit more slice.



Put a Chinese cleaver in your hand and you'll be doing it just right.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Rangen said:


> Put a Chinese cleaver in your hand and you'll be doing it just right.



Fair enough. I actually do take quite well to a nakiri and use one often.


----------



## panda

BillHanna said:


> Cut it from the back….


that what she said


----------



## panda

M1k3 said:


> Celeriac > Celery
> 
> P.S. turn over the celery


fennel > both


----------



## Isasmedjan

ian said:


> Man, I have to say that @isasmedjan’s Serbians are pretty amazing looking. They have a refinement that’s unusual for that kind of knife, and they seem to actually be that perfect knife that does combine the useful features of a gyuto and a cleaver, unlike a lot of other Serbians that are worse than either. I think his books might be open right now, at least for Serbians since he’s trying to make that one of his new specialities. You can PM him on the forum, or DM him on Instagram. Just put Serbian Cleaver somewhere in the title, so he can prioritize your message.



Ian has clearly gone mental so ignore this post....


----------



## KnightKnightForever

Isasmedjan said:


> Ian has clearly gone mental so ignore this post....



️


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Sticking to my "in all seriousness" theme... How the hell do you pronounce Isasmedjan? Every time I read it I try but I'm genuinely not sure how to say it in my head.


I-sass-med-jan(us). Not Isis-med-jan(us)


----------



## McMan

I have it on good authority it's pronounced "bork bork bork vooty-vooty-voo".


----------



## Knivperson

M1k3 said:


> I-sass-med-jan(us). Not Isis-med-jan(us)


Hahha, please, some of you english speaking guys, record yourself pronouncing Isasmedjan @Isasmedjan can judge the execution. I imagine you'll say something like "eye-say-smee-chan"


----------



## M1k3

Knivperson said:


> Hahha, please, some of you english speaking guys, record yourself pronouncing Isasmedjan @Isasmedjan can judge the execution. I imagine you'll say something like "eye-say-smee-chan"


Listen to the Knivpodden English episode.


----------



## M1k3

Scallops are delicious.

Burrata + Maldons + fresh cracked pepper + Heirloom Tomatoes =


----------



## tostadas

M1k3 said:


> Scallops are delicious.
> 
> Burrata + Maldons + fresh cracked pepper + Heirloom Tomatoes =


Yea I love scallops. My fav vegetarian dish.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

tostadas said:


> Yea I love scallops. My fav vegetarian dish.



Especially when you turn them into potatoes.


----------



## M1k3

tostadas said:


> ...vegetarian...


Why are you using such vulgar language?


----------



## tostadas

M1k3 said:


> Why are you using such vulgar language?


I suppose you could turn it into a seafood dish by substituting in rocky mountain oysters.


----------



## M1k3

M1k3 said:


> Scallops are delicious.


----------



## bahamaroot

HumbleHomeCook said:


> ....People have some strong opinions about gaps.


That's what she said.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 146124


Delicious indeed, but how is this unpopular though? lol


----------



## tostadas

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 146124


damn that looks super good


----------



## M1k3

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Delicious indeed, but how is this unpopular though? lol


 Someone said scallops aren't good.



tostadas said:


> damn that looks super good


Was my "lunch" meal at work. Mixing things from different stations while staying out of the other cooks way while hurrying up to get off the clock.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I think the whole Overrated Foods thread should be moved into this thread. I like most of the foods mentioned when being properly cooked.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

For a daily driver in a home kitchen, 180mm is superior to 210mm.


----------



## IsoJ

HumbleHomeCook said:


> For a daily driver in a home kitchen, 180mm is superior to 210mm.


Agreed


----------



## Qapla'

HumbleHomeCook said:


> For a daily driver in a home kitchen, 180mm is superior to 210mm.


I personally disagree, but I'm curious where would you classify a 195mm then?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Qapla' said:


> I personally disagree, but I'm curious where would you classify a 195mm then?



15mm worse than a 180mm.  


Honestly never used one of that length so I might like it.


----------



## sansho

people who post pictures of knives without writing what they are should be whipped.


----------



## Michi

sansho said:


> people who post pictures of knives without writing what they are should be whipped.


Wrong thread. That’s a _popular_ opinion.


----------



## ian

sansho said:


> people who post pictures of knives without writing what they are should be whipped.



Are you my brother? That has been my position for years! Even my commenting “Nice Mazaki” on every unlabeled post for a month did nothing to change this behavior!


----------



## Rangen

ian said:


> Are you my brother? That has been my position for years! Even my commenting “Nice Mazaki” on every unlabeled post for a month did nothing to change this behavior!


Maybe try "Wow, the Shenzhen factories are really catching up!"


----------



## ian

To me, unlabeled posts are like people who went to Harvard saying “Where did I go to school, you ask? Oh, in Boston. Well, not actually in Boston, you know, just a little across the river. It was great being there, I had lots of friends at all the _other_ Boston area colleges, like Tufts, Brandeis, MIT, BC, BU, Northeastern, Clemson, Emerson, and Babson, to name a few. But what I liked best about my college was being right on the red line, only four stops up from downtown. It was just so nice to be able to be on a beautiful red brick campus while still having all of Boston and Cambridge accessible. Oh, it’s not important what the name of the school was, everyone’s college education is equally important.”



*I think the first sentence or two of the quote is from some comedy act or something. I forget whose act it was though


----------



## tcmx3

ian said:


> To me, unlabeled posts are like people who went to Harvard saying “Where did I go to school, you ask? Oh, in Boston. Well, not actually in Boston, you know, just a little across the river. It was great being there, I had lots of friends at all the _other_ Boston area colleges, like Tufts, Brandeis, MIT, BC, BU, Northeastern, Clemson, Emerson, and Babson, to name a few. But what I liked best about my college was being right on the red line, only four stops up from downtown. It was just so nice to be able to be on a beautiful red brick campus while still having all of Boston and Cambridge accessible. Oh, it’s not important what the name of the school was, everyone’s college education is equally important.”



that is the best description of a Harvard alum Ive ever heard lmao

although I do have a slightly hard time believing that anyone from Northeastern would ever associate with an ivy leaguer


----------



## spaceconvoy

ian said:


> *I think the first sentence or two of the quote is from some comedy act or something. I forget whose act it was though



It was from 30 Rock:


But ok, Mr. 'I spent four years in New Haven'


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> It was from 30 Rock:
> 
> 
> But ok, Mr. 'I spent four years in New Haven'




Oh, right!


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> But ok, Mr. 'I spent four years in New Haven'



Me? 3 years. I worked at Yale for a bit. Wasn’t fancy enough go to an Ivy college. Went to a hippie liberal arts college in Ohio.


----------



## Rangen

tcmx3 said:


> that is the best description of a Harvard alum Ive ever heard lmao



Having met some, and even been associated with some, closer than I would ideally like, I agree. 

But the power move among those types is to not mention Harvard, but only the dorm they lived in. They will speak the name as though it has powers.


----------



## spaceconvoy

More 30 Rock... here's another move they like to pull:


----------



## stringer

ian said:


> To me, unlabeled posts are like people who went to Harvard saying “Where did I go to school, you ask? Oh, in Boston. Well, not actually in Boston, you know, just a little across the river. It was great being there, I had lots of friends at all the _other_ Boston area colleges, like Tufts, Brandeis, MIT, BC, BU, Northeastern, Clemson, Emerson, and Babson, to name a few. But what I liked best about my college was being right on the red line, only four stops up from downtown. It was just so nice to be able to be on a beautiful red brick campus while still having all of Boston and Cambridge accessible. Oh, it’s not important what the name of the school was, everyone’s college education is equally important.”
> 
> 
> 
> *I think the first sentence or two of the quote is from some comedy act or something. I forget whose act it was though



Oh cool, I know some people that went to Lesley.


----------



## xxxclx

spaceconvoy said:


> It was from 30 Rock:
> 
> 
> But ok, Mr. 'I spent four years in New Haven'




That yale thing?


----------



## Knivperson

I can't really tell a Raquin gyuto from a The 9 or a Puig, if it wasn't for the makers mark.


----------



## spaceconvoy

When people say Shaptons have poor feedback I have no idea what they're talking about

... or is this a humble-brag


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> When people say Shaptons have poor feedback I have no idea what they're talking about
> 
> ... or is this a humble-brag



220 and 500 feel great. 4k doesn’t, to me.


----------



## tcmx3

spaceconvoy said:


> When people say Shaptons have poor feedback I have no idea what they're talking about
> 
> ... or is this a humble-brag



which shapton? frankly shaptons vary WAY more between grits/series than any two shiro suitas from the same mine Ive owned


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I don't quite understand what feedback is either. Almost all my synthetics are from Chosera and Shapton and they are all very effective to me.


----------



## tostadas

spaceconvoy said:


> When people say Shaptons have poor feedback I have no idea what they're talking about
> 
> ... or is this a humble-brag





tcmx3 said:


> which shapton? frankly shaptons vary WAY more between grits/series than any two shiro suitas from the same mine Ive owned


yea depends on the grit. My SP2k is awesome. But on the other hand, I honestly have no idea what the SP5k is good for. It doesnt feel good to use, the sharpened edge is not to my liking, and it's not particularly good for polishing. I'd sell it, but after shipping costs and paypal fees, it hardly seems worth my time to do even that.


----------



## Barmoley

Feedback is feel and sound when sharpening. Some stones feel creamy that's what I prefer. I don't like rough feel or hard feel of high grit stones. Ultimately though feel is the last thing I care about as long as it is better than diamond plates, those are bad enough that I don't use them even though they work too.


----------



## esoo

spaceconvoy said:


> When people say Shaptons have poor feedback I have no idea what they're talking about
> 
> ... or is this a humble-brag



The Shapton Pro 5K I had had no feedback. Felt like rubbing a knife back and forth on a perfectly flat surface. It worked but wasn't enjoyable. Even the Shapton Pro 12K I have has more feedback.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

if you claim that your knife edge passes the toilet paper cutting test but you didn't wipe your ass with the TP before, you're cheating plain and simple


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> if you claim that your knife edge passes the toilet paper cutting test but you didn't wipe your ass with the TP before, you're cheating plain and simple



Is that like requiring a receipt of original purchase to sell on BST?


----------



## spaceconvoy

tcmx3 said:


> which shapton? frankly shaptons vary WAY more between grits/series than any two shiro suitas from the same mine Ive owned


GS 500, SP 1500 and 2K


----------



## tostadas

spaceconvoy said:


> GS 500, SP 1500 and 2K


Those are all good ones


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

_Most decent_ cutlery stainless steel isn't as hard to sharpen as it is often made out.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

I like shapton pro 2k in as a touchup stone. It is a splash & go, very dish resistant, puts on touchup edge in a jiffy who cares if doesn't have feedback as long as it works.


----------



## Jovidah

HumbleHomeCook said:


> _Most decent_ cutlery stainless steel isn't as hard to sharpen as it is often made out.


I think it depends on what you call 'decent steel' and 'hard to sharpen'. Even on decent the main difference IMO is that on carbon it's just easier. I just throw the knife in the general direction of the stone and it'll get screaming sharp with barely any application of time or technique.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Decent is more expensive


----------



## spaceconvoy

Thanks to @FishmanDE for starting this conversation. I was also disturbed by the 9/11 commemorative knife, but hesitated to bring it up in that thread. Hopefully this is a better venue.

The argument that it's 'art' inspired by tragedy rings hollow to me. How is it art? What message does it convey? It's a kitchen knife with a tacky engraving that happens to be made out of a piece of the WTC... How is that significant or related to the attacks of September 11th, other than as a grotesque 'memento mori'?

If anything, it evokes a very different aspect of that time period - the retaliatory attacks on innocent Muslim-Americans in the aftermath of blind patriotism and violent hyper-nationalism:

"On September 30, 2001, Swaran Kaur Bhullar, a Sikh woman, was attacked by two men who stabbed her in the head twice as her car was idling at a red light in San Diego. The men shouted at her, "This is what you get for what you've done to us!""

To me, the _best_ case scenario is that it represents a hollow cash grab by a knife maker who happened to get his hands on steel from the Twin Towers. But claiming it's art makes it far worse and much darker - what does it mean to turn a piece of the Trade Center into a potential weapon?

Never forget. Not only the initial attacks but also the violence committed afterwards in the name of "patriotism." Never forget the ~200,000 Iraqi civilians killed by an illegal and immoral invasion - how many of them were stabbed to death?

Tasteless, crass, and offensive. The maker should be ashamed.


----------



## captaincaed

I've never been quite sure how to interpret the making of one object out of another to commemorate a tragedy. I just know this wouldn't be my first choice. 

What about making a ceremonial fireman's axe to commemorate the FDNY personnel who died in the towers?


----------



## M1k3

Labels, instead of having to be a clear container.


----------



## Jovidah

M1k3 said:


> Labels, instead of having to be a clear container.


Surprising preference considering the label-writing you presented in the meme-thread.


----------



## SilverSwarfer

Don't blame the knife in your hand; but rather blame your hand.


----------



## M1k3

Jovidah said:


> Surprising preference considering the label-writing you presented in the meme-thread.


----------



## sansho

idk why every product (food, cosmetics, detergents) needs to be colorful and smelly. wt f is wrong with these 
people?

food coloring annoys me. not everything needs to be decorated.

fragrances in soap are whack. the smell of clean isn't some f'd up _eau de industrie_ perfume. the smell of clean is the complete absence of aroma. why would i want my hands contaminated with fake ass fruit and flower fragrance chemicals after washing them? lol. cleaning products should remove residues, not introduce them!

i remember back in school, some big industry rep (could have been from unilever or something, idk) lectured us. bragging about how she fancied herself a 'disruptive innovator'. was also talking about how she was so proud of working on some laundry detergent full of fragrance-impregnated microplastics that bind to fabrics and slowly release offensive odor for longer than ever before. are these people insane? lol. luckily, that one never made it to market afaik.

it's surprisingly very hard to find simple but high quality soaps and detergents. if you can find them at all, they're usually 'natural' hippie dippy crap that doesn't work as well.

i bought this soap a while ago and was completely trolled:






palmolive 'PURE + CLEAR'
'NO UNNECESSARY Ingredients'
'residue-free'
'no *heavy* fragrances' (emphasis mine)

i thought, 'great, that's what i'm talking about!'
but no, it smells like sһit. it's jam packed with fragrance. i guess the key word was 'heavy'. smelly af, but with a fragrance they arbitrarily decided wasn't heavy. haha


----------



## Michi

The goddamn stinking dish soaps and washing powders are a pet peeve of mine. Dish soap doesn't smell of lemon; instead, it reeks of something entirely unlike lemon. And, guess what, I don't want my dishes to smell of _anything_. The same is true of my clothes. I want them to smell like cloth, not like artificial lavender aroma.

Here in Australia, I've been searching high and wide for dish soap that doesn't stink. I made the same experience as you. All the non-smelly dish soaps don't work. I tested about half a dozen and they work only marginally better than hot water. If I have a greasy pot, the fat is still in there after having washed it three times, each time with an unreasonably large amount of non-smelly dish soap. I suspect that, by the time the pot is clean, I have put more harmful stuff into the wastewater than I would have by using an ordinary amount of non-alternative dish soap. Go figure…

I came across the Palmolive Pure + Clear in my searches, but it is not for sale in Australia. I even toyed with the idea of importing some, but the cost is prohibitive. Now you are telling me that this one stinks, too 

I guess the choice is between dishes that are dirty and dishes that stink


----------



## sansho

my man! if you ever find an unscented dish soap that isn't worthless, please lmk. i'll do the same if i find one.



Michi said:


> I've been searching high and wide for dish soap that doesn't stink. I made the same experience as you. All the non-smelly dish soaps don't work.



and just think... technically, that added fragrance eats up some of the detergent's lipophilic capacity. dawn, palmolive, etc. would work even better if they didn't add that crap. maybe only slightly better, but still.



Michi said:


> I came across the Palmolive Pure + Clear in my searches, but it is not for sale in Australia. I even toyed with the idea of importing some, but the cost is prohibitive. Now you are telling me that this one stinks, too



unbelievable, right? 'NO UNNECESSARY Ingredients'
i guess they can't wrap their head around the idea that fragrance could be unnecessary. haha
but yeah, there's no point of seeking out that product. it's pretty much just as smelly as regular dawn or whatever.


----------



## TSF415

M1k3 said:


> Labels, instead of having to be a clear container.


 Ripping off labels before putting the container in the dish pit.


----------



## M1k3

TSF415 said:


> Ripping off labels before putting the container in the dish pit.


My kryptonite!


----------



## daveb

I like nice clean labels...


----------



## Pisau

I don't mind face grain bamboo chopping boards at all.


----------



## Michi

Pisau said:


> I don't mind face grain bamboo chopping boards at all.


That's the unpopular opinion jackpot!


----------



## M1k3

Pisau said:


> I don't mind face grain bamboo chopping boards at all.


They make great charcuterie boards. And firewood.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

I tried to experiment with bamboo cutting boards but my Pandaweiler kept chewing on them so I gave up.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

The term "KKF level" is pretentious and dismissive. 

Is there a certain dollar scale for these folks that puts a knife into KKF level status? I guess an inexpensive kitchen warrior that has prepped thousands of pounds of ingredients wouldn't count as KKF level but a $1k never used honyaki would.


----------



## Dhoff

Pisau said:


> I don't mind face grain bamboo chopping boards at all.



they are great for stropping and removing burrs


----------



## MarcelNL

I read 'grainfed' bamboo board, reading the post from @Pisau , probably just inventing a whole new level of pointless

If I ever find a non artificial smelling soap that works on dishes I'll report, I have been looking for such for ages....so far I have been able to source old fashioned soap from Italy and France both without muck you don't want in it next tp the stuff from companies like Weleda, but dish washing stuff and clothing detergents no luck yet...mostly that stuff claiming to be 'natural' is just greenwashing the crap they sell through confusing their customers via the label by using silly marketing dept invented buzzwords without any real meaning. Brent crude is 100% natural too...


----------



## ian

HumbleHomeCook said:


> The term "KKF level" is pretentious and dismissive.
> 
> Is there a certain dollar scale for these folks that puts a knife into KKF level status? I guess an inexpensive kitchen warrior that has prepped thousands of pounds of ingredients wouldn't count as KKF level but a $1k never used honyaki would.



I guess if you just take it to mean "a knife that KKFers find it interesting to talk about" it's more descriptive than pretentious. Plenty of us use non-fancy knives, we just don't talk about them as much on here, cause there's not as much to say about them.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> I guess if you just take it to mean "a knife that KKFers find it interesting to talk about" it's more descriptive than pretentious. Plenty of us use non-fancy knives, we just don't talk about them as much on here, cause there's not as much to say about them.



I get it and I guess my sensitive side was coming out.  I still think there's a lot of interesting to be found and talked about in non-fancy knives that perform well.


----------



## Barmoley

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I get it and I guess my sensitive side was coming out.  I still think there's a lot of interesting to be found and talked about in non-fancy knives that perform well.


We talk about old sabatier and the like knives and these are not expensive or fancy. Just has to be interesting or special in some way. Can mean expensive too though, but "KKF level" is a good descriptive term that most will understand. Political correctness is getting the best of you


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Barmoley said:


> We talk about old sabatier and the like knives and these are not expensive or fancy. Just has to be interesting or special in some way. Can mean expensive too though, but "KKF level" is a good descriptive term that most will understand. Political correctness is getting the best of you



I prefer the term "sensitive" thank you very much.


----------



## Hassanbensober

Cleaning the meat slicer with out the machine on and the blade spinning is completely inefficient.


----------



## stringer

Hassanbensober said:


> Cleaning the meat slicer with out the machine on and the blade spinning is completely inefficient.



No one needs ten fingers anyway. One or two of them are really just extra dead weight you're hauling around for no reason.


----------



## spaceconvoy

The acronym 'NKD' makes me irrationally angry. Keep this trash off the forum and go back to Reddit where you belong!


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> The acronym 'NKD' makes me irrationally angry. Keep this trash off the forum and go back to Reddit where you belong!



As in this? Does seem nativist / xenophobic ...

Or are you talking about @NakiriKnaifuDiefu? Anyway, I'm confused.


Edit: oh... you probably mean "new knife day". That one doesn't bother me so much, but I do get irrationally angry at a significant proportion of the posts in the newest knife buy thread, so you have my sympathy and understanding.


----------



## M1k3




----------



## Dhoff

ian said:


> As in this? Does seem nativist / xenophobic ...
> 
> Or are you talking about @NakiriKnaifuDiefu? Anyway, I'm confused.
> 
> 
> Edit: oh... you probably mean "new knife day". That one doesn't bother me so much, but I do get irrationally angry at a significant proportion of the posts in the newest knife buy thread, so you have my sympathy and understanding.



NKD obviously is "No Ken Doll"

It means the knife is only for "Barbies" aka women. In these MeToo times it is frowned upon to use NKD.


----------



## Kippington

stringer said:


> No one needs ten fingers anyway. One or two of them are really just extra dead weight you're hauling around for no reason.


It's funny having the perspective of growing up in hospo, getting told how dangerous all the kitchen equipment is... then moving to metal/wood working.
A tablesaw feels like a meat slicer on steroids - Screaming like a bat outta hell, and willing to take a hand off you if you zone out for half a second.
And there's this soft and fluffy looking killer, which all knowledgeable bladesmiths fear:




And that's just the small home shop. I've watched a few gore videos of industrial metalworking accidents too... I'm talking death in seconds. Far out

For those of you not afraid of watching a clip of someone straight up dying, Google "russian lathe accident" for the full gore video. I won't link it here though.


----------



## Dhoff

Kippington said:


> It's funny having the perspective of growing up in hospo, getting told how dangerous all the kitchen equipment is... then moving to metal/wood working.
> A tablesaw feels like a meat slicer on steroids - Screaming like a bat outta hell, and willing to take a hand off you if you zone out for half a second.
> And there's this soft and fluffy looking killer, which all knowledgeable bladesmiths fear:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's just the small home shop. I've watched a few gore videos of industrial metalworking accidents too... I'm talking death in seconds. Far out
> 
> For those of you not afraid of watching a clip of someone straight up dying, Google "russian lathe accident" for the full gore video. I won't link it here though.



The soft wheel of death really dangerous or just sarcasm?


----------



## captaincaed

It's the Month Python rabbit. 1/2 HP of spinning white death. If you catch an edge, kiss your toes goodbye.


----------



## Kippington

Dhoff said:


> The soft wheel of death really dangerous or just sarcasm?


Not sarcasm, unfortunately.  They've caused at least two deaths.
They spin fast, and if you're not paying attention, will grab a knife and throw it at high speed.






British knifemaker fatal injury


No names,, young kids left without dad and partner on her own now. Just before Christmas a well known successful British knifemaker and u tuber was taken well before his time in a tragic workshop accident.. The tool he was using was a buffer wheel (people who use one often call it the most...



www.mig-welding.co.uk









Buffers the most dangerous tool in the shop.. sadly proven..


Earlier in the week I read about a tragedy, some of you might have read this on Facebook, a fellow knife maker has died in his shop, I didn't know Mr Dempsey, but there is a kinship with others that follow a similar path, and he was quite obviously a brother of the blade. The report is that a kni...



www.bladesmithsforum.com









Lost finger from buffing wheel


I'm thinking about trying my hand grinder with a buffing wheel to polish handles with and I was wondering if anyone else had tried this before? A friend of mine lost a finger when a bench mounted buffer tossed a blade across the room so Im a little nervouse about using one.



www.bladesmithsforum.com


----------



## Pisau

Yikes. 

Guys. Come on. 

Enough of gore please....

Have some more bamboo to calm you down a bit.


----------



## Kippington

Whoa, hang on there, now! You can't just go dialling it up to 11 like that, this forum is accessible to some sensitive folk...


----------



## Dhoff

Kippington said:


> Whoa, hang on there, now! You can't just go dialling it up to 11 like that, this forum is accessible to some sensitive folk...



I completely agree, that Radish in the top was showing an inappropriate amount of fruit-meat for a top part!


----------



## BillHanna

ian said:


> As in this? Does seem nativist / xenophobic ...
> 
> Or are you talking about @NakiriKnaifuDiefu? Anyway, I'm confused.
> 
> 
> Edit: oh... you probably mean "new knife day". That one doesn't bother me so much, but I do get irrationally angry at a significant proportion of the posts in the newest knife buy thread, so you have my sympathy and understanding.


Nice mazaki


----------



## chefwp

stringer said:


> No one needs ten fingers anyway. One or two of them are really just extra dead weight you're hauling around for no reason.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Kippington said:


> Whoa, hang on there, now! You can't just go dialling it up to 11 like that, this forum is accessible to some sensitive folk...



My feelings...


----------



## tally-ho

A sauté pan is a superior frying pan.
Wider cooking surface at same diameter, higher wall that stop more projections.


----------



## captaincaed

Woks are pointless on home stoves. If you don't have the bayou burner, stick to the sauté pan.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Mount your buffing wheel on a drill press. 
With belt you can slow down the speed too.

Most vertical machine spin too fast anyway.


----------



## Knivperson

Japanese knives are overrated


----------



## Barmoley

Knivperson said:


> Japanese knives are overrated


Japanese knives or Japanese style knives?


----------



## Knivperson

Barmoley said:


> Japanese knives or Japanese style knives?


First


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Knivperson said:


> Japanese knives are overpriced.


Fixed that for you.


----------



## spaceconvoy

If you account for the labor required to obtain one (following IG accounts, waiting on drops, trying again and again until you're successful), then knives from small-batch western makers are vastly overpriced


----------



## AT5760

I don't get it. I know this thread is primarily jokes with a hint of truth to them, but Japanese knives (a huge category) are overrated and overpriced compared to __________?


----------



## Lars

AT5760 said:


> I don't get it. I know this thread is primarily jokes with a hint of truth to them, but Japanese knives (a huge category) are overrated and overpriced compared to __________?


Trolling explained


----------



## SirCutAlot

Most handmade knives are overpriced .. Beeing a chef, i don`t know what i have to take for a Kebab if i earn the money the known knifemakers take for an hour  even with the highest reputation the knife maker take more money an hour... This is sad.

Hashtag **** OVERPRICED KNIVES.. So nearly every knife  

SirCutALot


----------



## Knivperson

Once again, my unpopular opion really stirs the pond


----------



## big_adventure

Most artisanal ANYTHING is overpriced, when you are strictly talking value-for-money.

A Vic Fibrox (for example) costs less than peanuts (if they are suitably artisanal) and can be used to prep literally everything a Kato or Shig or Ashi Honyaki can prep. No knife makes someone a better chef/cook by itself. 

This isn't why we buy them.

OTOH, the skill required to forge, shape, sharpen and polish a beautiful awesome piece of cutlery is significantly higher than the skill required to make a good hamburger, and it requires a lot more equipment. This is why knives cost more than burgers.


----------



## Barmoley

spaceconvoy said:


> If you account for the labor required to obtain one (following IG accounts, waiting on drops, trying again and again until you're successful), then knives from small-batch western makers are vastly overpriced


It's not like you could get Kato, Shig, Fuji, etc any easier. So it is a wash there. I think you get more from western makers in general.


----------



## chiffonodd

ian said:


> Yes! Although really it’s 51mm as a lower limit. Get over your short knife phobias, people!



Knives under 54mm don't even cut.


----------



## tcmx3

Barmoley said:


> It's not like you could get Kato, Shig, Fuji, etc any easier. So it is a wash there. I think you get more from western makers in general.



Interestingly enough, of all the knives I own that are "hard to get", the easiest was actually shig, but it was a Ku santoku.

but I will admit that a kitaeji 240 is the sort of thing that makes scoring a Raquin/Nine/etc. look kind of like a normal Tuesday.


----------



## ian

Don’t you just have to pay 2x retail on BST? Seems like a piece of cake.


----------



## Barmoley

The main reason all these knives are hard to get is that they are underpriced.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Where is the western Sukenari? And does the lack of decent midrange knives say something about inequality and the slow death of the middle class


----------



## Barmoley

I'd say that Kramer Zwilling is the western Sukenari. We could argue which is better or whatever, but that comes down mostly to personal preference. The hole in the western line up is more in the $100-$225 range the kaeru stainless, gesshin stainless, gonbei, tojiro dp, etc. In this price range Japanese knives give you a lot of performance for relatively low price.


----------



## spaceconvoy

but...





Zwillings are just Shuns for people who would be embarrassed to admit they own a Shun


----------



## Barmoley

spaceconvoy said:


> but...
> View attachment 157123
> 
> 
> Zwillings are just Shuns for people who would be embarrassed to admit they own a Shun


Totally different, but fits in this thread. They are made in Japan though.

HHH production line from years back was very cool and reasonably priced.


----------



## Michi

spaceconvoy said:


> Zwillings are just Shuns for people who would be embarrassed to admit they own a Shun


I own both a Shun and a Zwilling, so there!


----------



## mpier

What I find more outrageous than the price of custom or hand made chefs knives is this custom made pocket knife fad where there going for $2500 and up, I mean what do you use it for cutting open a box once in awhile. Don’t get me wrong some of them are beautiful and I can see the amount of labor it takes but it loses its value as a tool.


----------



## Michi

A pocket knife that costs less than $1000 isn't worth owning.

Remember, this is the _un_popular opinion thread, so please, _do_ try!


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

Michi said:


> A pocket knife that costs less than $1000 isn't worth owning.
> 
> Remember, this is the _un_popular opinion thread, so please, _do_ try!


And since we all know that knives below 240mm aren't even knives, that means pocket knives don't exists. Unless you have veeeery deep pockets


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

And since I expect large number of forum members wanting to get rid of what they thought were their pocket knives, I'll start offering a free utilization services. You pay only for shipping.

DM me for address


----------



## mpier

Michi said:


> A pocket knife that costs less than $1000 isn't worth owning.
> 
> Remember, this is the _un_popular opinion thread, so please, _do_ try!


Yes you are absolutely right, this is what I meant to say

Expensive chefs knives are garbage, but what we all need is a $2000 pocket knife, there luster and beauty can intimidate a box or envelope to open all by themselves, and you can get ours of enjoyment from admiring them and flipping them open as you watch re-runs of Forged in Fire.

Better?


----------



## Dhoff

Small knives are better for homeusers than 240+


----------



## coxhaus

Dhoff said:


> Small knives are better for homeusers than 240+


Why? I like big knives. I am a home user. I think they cut better or at least that is the way it feels to me. Almost every time I used a small knife, I ended up wishing I had used a bigger knife. I rarely use anything smaller than a 10-inch knife. It is my Goto knife size. I have 3 and one 11.5 inch knife for big stuff.


----------



## stringer

Barmoley said:


> I'd say that Kramer Zwilling is the western Sukenari. We could argue which is better or whatever, but that comes down mostly to personal preference. The hole in the western line up is more in the $100-$225 range the kaeru stainless, gesshin stainless, gonbei, tojiro dp, etc. In this price range Japanese knives give you a lot of performance for relatively low price.



There's really no reason to go past this for "performance". If you need more then practice


coxhaus said:


> Why? I like big knives. I am a home user.



Here's something @coxhaus and I can agree on. Bigger is better.

I use 240s for work but only 250+ at home.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

stringer said:


> There's really no reason to go past this for "performance". If you need more then practic
> 
> 
> Here's something @coxhaus and I can agree on. Bigger is better.
> 
> I use 240s for work but only 250+ at home.


I think it partly depends on how tall you are compared to the cutting surface. I’m just 5”9 - 5”10, using a 270’s tip to slice means I would need to raise my wrist and elbow by a lot.


----------



## Barmoley

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think it partly depends on how tall you are compared to the cutting surface. I’m just 5”9 - 5”10, using a 270’s tip to slice means I would need to raise my wrist and elbow by a lot.


You just need a thinner board or elevator shoes


----------



## M1k3

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think it partly depends on how tall you are compared to the cutting surface. I’m just 5”9 - 5”10, using a 270’s tip to slice means I would need to raise my wrist and elbow by a lot.


Push cut. Forearm workout.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think it partly depends on how tall you are compared to the cutting surface. I’m just 5”9 - 5”10, using a 270’s tip to slice means I would need to raise my wrist and elbow by a lot.


KS profile. Ditch the bullnose.


----------



## esoo

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think it partly depends on how tall you are compared to the cutting surface. I’m just 5”9 - 5”10, using a 270’s tip to slice means I would need to raise my wrist and elbow by a lot.



Didn't Kippington show a proof that you actually raise you wrist less with a 270?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

esoo said:


> Didn't Kippington show a proof that you actually raise you wrist less with a 270?


I was specifically talking about using the tip to slice. All my knives are relatively flat and the profile doesn’t matter as much here as I would raise the knife regardless by 30-40 degree to expose the very tip.


----------



## elliowb

Sharp knives of any length are overrated and overpriced. You risk losing a finger tip, an entire finger, and possibly your hand. The blood stains a perfectly good bamboo cutting board. Dull knives all the way.


----------



## Greasylake

elliowb said:


> You risk losing a finger tip, an entire finger, and possibly your hand


A full set of fingers is entirely overated. You don't really need 10 of them, getting rid of a few is a fast and easy way to get rid of some extra weight.


----------



## M1k3

elliowb said:


> Sharp knives of any length are overrated and overpriced. You risk losing a finger tip, an entire finger, and possibly your hand. The blood stains a perfectly good bamboo cutting board. Dull knives all the way.


----------



## Dhoff

coxhaus said:


> Why? I like big knives. I am a home user. I think they cut better or at least that is the way it feels to me. Almost every time I used a small knife, I ended up wishing I had used a bigger knife. I rarely use anything smaller than a 10-inch knife. It is my Goto knife size. I have 3 and one 11.5 inch knife for big stuff.



mostly it was an opinion in the extreme spectrum to showcase the tendency towards some kkf memers being extreme in the opinion of "no knives under 240mm is worth a ****"

Also, I do honestly think many homecooks prefer knives brlow 240, maybe the amounts to be prepared are just not big enough or the work area so small that larger knives do not really provide a benefit


----------



## Michi

Dhoff said:


> Also, I do honestly think many homecooks prefer knives brlow 240, maybe the amounts to be prepared are just not big enough or the work area so small that larger knives do not really provide a benefit


I have a kitchen that is very generously sized. Despite that, I reach for my 240 or 255 knives only rarely. Almost always, 210 is just about perfect.

Size matters, but only up to a point.


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

If only I could keep katana in the kitchen I wouldn't even bother with those tiny pieces of steel that you call chefs knives.


----------



## stringer

Dhoff said:


> mostly it was an opinion in the extreme spectrum to showcase the tendency towards some kkf memers being extreme in the opinion of "no knives under 240mm is worth a ****"
> 
> Also, I do honestly think many homecooks prefer knives brlow 240, maybe the amounts to be prepared are just not big enough or the work area so small that larger knives do not really provide a benefit




American produce is also much larger than that found in other countries. I remember doing an internal sales convention for a national wine distributor at my last hotel. Basically a meet and greet for the sales reps to talk to the European wine makers whose products they sold. They also flew over a Sicilian Michelin starred fine dining chef to do food pairings. He got a real kick out of the size of all of our produce. Taking pictures of the football sized eggplants and horse carrots to show to his friends back home.


----------



## Marshmallo

A Shibata Koutetsu and a paring knife of your choice, are the only knives you need for veg processing and meat slicing.


----------



## esoo

Damascus cladding is waste of money.


----------



## Dhoff

stringer said:


> American produce is also much larger than that found in other countries. I remember doing an internal sales convention for a national wine distributor at my last hotel. Basically a meet and greet for the sales reps to talk to the European wine makers whose products they sold. They also flew over a Sicilian Michelin starred fine dining chef to do food pairings. He got a real kick out of the size of all of our produce. Taking pictures of the football sized eggplants and horse carrots to show to his friends back home.



definitely true... in Denmark when they sell "large watermelons" it is basically a seed in Spain... this goes for a lot of produce, some of the carrots in the cutting videos are beasts that are as large as a courgette is in Denmark


----------



## stringer

Dhoff said:


> definitely true... in Denmark when they sell "large watermelons" it is basically a seed in Spain... this goes for a lot of produce, some of the carrots in the cutting videos are beasts that are as large as a courgette is in Denmark


We call it zucchini. Try cutting one of these up with a 185 "gyuto" (the vegetable not the child).


----------



## esoo

When we lived in Edmonton, my mom grew zucchini - they were probably as long as that, but larger in diameter.


----------



## tostadas

Oval handles are more comfortable than octagonal.


----------



## IsoJ

Ho wood 6 - Ebony 0


----------



## coxhaus

It's hard for me to understand small knives. I have always had large kitchens even growing up. And my only restaurant job when I was 16 for the summer, I used a 11.5 inch knife for everything. I became comfortable with large knives which stuck with me for life, I guess.

You may have large zucchini but we have large watermelons in Texas. They may be 10 to 12 inches across and 24 in length. Even my wife uses my large 11.5 Henckels 4star knife to cut them.


----------



## tally-ho

stringer said:


> American produce is also much larger than that found in other countries
> [...CUT...]
> Taking pictures of the football sized eggplants and horse carrots to show to his friends back home.


Bigger isn't always better, for example with carrots, the core generally tastes much stronger so young carrots with a small core have a more subtle taste.


----------



## stringer

tally-ho said:


> Bigger isn't always better, for example with carrots, the core generally tastes much stronger so young carrots with a small core have a more subtle taste.



Bigger produce isn't better. But if all you work with is the jumbo stuff then a 210 just won't cut it.


----------



## ethompson

The only reason I don’t have 300mm gyutos is because there aren’t many options. Bigger is better.

But… as soon as I’m out of the commercial kitchen for good I’m ditching all but 1 gyuto and switching to a 300mm suji and 180 nakiri as my daily drivers. Any meal one knife can do, two can do better.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Viva la' 180!


----------



## BillHanna

Buffalo plaid is garbage


----------



## spaceconvoy

Everyone debates the best length for a suji but they rarely talk about the ideal height, which is 52mm.


----------



## Jville

ethompson said:


> The only reason I don’t have 300mm gyutos is because there aren’t many options. Bigger is better.
> 
> But… as soon as I’m out of the commercial kitchen for good I’m ditching all but 1 gyuto and switching to a 300mm suji and 180 nakiri as my daily drivers. Any meal one knife can do, two can do better.


This is the only 300 + gyuto I have, but I do find it quite versatile: 330 mm Raquin weighing at a nimble 8.6 ounces.


----------



## ethompson

Jville said:


> This is the only 300 + gyuto I have, but I do find it quite versatile: 330 mm Raquin weighing at a nimble 8.6 ounces. View attachment 158492



Uhhhhh… when do you plan on not being home next? Do you have an alarm? Any tricks to getting your dogs to be friendly?

But seriously, that’s a knife!


----------



## Jville

ethompson said:


> Uhhhhh… when do you plan on not being home next? Do you have an alarm? Any tricks to getting your dogs to be friendly?
> 
> But seriously, that’s a knife!


Just leave some beef jerky or wrap up some rare steak in a napkin and put it in your pocket. Don’t worry about taking it out. They can get it themselves.


----------



## BillHanna

Unless you have 615819651 knives, it don't daggone matter which master sharpened your knife. One day, YOU are gonna sharpen it; and you ain't him.


----------



## ian

BillHanna said:


> Unless you have 615819651 knives, it don't daggone matter which master sharpened your knife. One day, YOU are gonna sharpen it; and you ain't him.



Very true, although when people say “who’s the sharpener?” they mean “who ground the knife?”. Not sure why one says sharpener.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> Unless you have 615819651 knives, it don't daggone matter which master sharpened your knife. One day, YOU are gonna sharpen it; and you ain't him.



You think a Work Sharp would be okay?


----------



## BillHanna

HumbleHomeCook said:


> You think a Work Sharp would be okay?


Ken Onion Only


----------



## tostadas

HumbleHomeCook said:


> You think a Work Sharp would be okay?





BillHanna said:


> Ken Onion Only


15 degrees only


----------



## M1k3

I thought the perfect angle was 18.5? @RDalman


----------



## ModRQC

ian said:


> Very true, although when people say “who’s the sharpener?” they mean “who ground the knife?”. Not sure why one says sharpener.



Interesting question: is it even Japanese? Or some "regularized" wester mistranslation of the term they use say in Sakai when we get to read "Sharpener".

Possibly two or three things then:

- nobility of the title: "grinder" sounds a bit ratchet and I guess that anything that would resemble "shaper" would be too close to what the maker did in the forge.

- at one point most of the grinding was done on what was commonly called "sharpening stones"

- single bevel tradition with a 0 grind meant that grinding the bevel was basically giving primary sharpness

If anyone like @KenHash has got anything to add onto that, it won't be unpopular with me.


----------



## ModRQC

In the spirit of the present thread:

@ModRQC isn't interested much with trying JNats. What a douche. Just sayin'!


----------



## coxhaus

tostadas said:


> 15 degrees only



I know you guys are making fun but you don't have all your facts right. I use 20 degrees for my large and heavy Henckels 11.5-inch 4star knife so it will cut through raw chicken bones and split chickens in half.


----------



## tcmx3

coxhaus said:


> I know you guys are making fun but you don't have all your facts right. I use 20 degrees for my large and heavy Henckels 11.5-inch 4star knife so it will cut through raw chicken bones and split chickens in half.



probably an unpopular opinion but these are better for splitting poultry IMO


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

coxhaus said:


> I know you guys are making fun but you don't have all your facts right. I use 20 degrees for my large and heavy Henckels 11.5-inch 4star knife so it will cut through raw chicken bones and split chickens in half.



Just poking fun friend.


----------



## ian

I like shears too


----------



## Michi

If you want to use shears to break up poultry, proper poultry shears are the way to go, IMO.




These days, I hardly use them and break up a chicken with just a boning knife. It turns out better that way: less of a mess, and cleaner cut lines.


----------



## BillHanna

145mm is too long for a honesuki. 120 is perfect. If it isn’t, your bird is too big. Just say no to drugs. And saline.


----------



## spaceconvoy

What did you say about my woman?! And how did you know I call it my honesuki?


----------



## BillHanna

Yeah. Those OTHER saline injections are unwelcome as well.


----------



## Pisau

ModRQC said:


> Interesting question: is it even Japanese? Or some "regularized" wester mistranslation of the term they use say in Sakai when we get to read "Sharpener".
> 
> Possibly two or three things then:
> 
> - nobility of the title: "grinder" sounds a bit ratchet and I guess that anything that would resemble "shaper" would be too close to what the maker did in the forge.
> 
> - at one point most of the grinding was done on what was commonly called "sharpening stones"
> 
> - single bevel tradition with a 0 grind meant that grinding the bevel was basically giving primary sharpness
> 
> If anyone like @KenHash has got anything to add onto that, it won't be unpopular with me.



I'm sure @KenHash could expound this better, but the title of the occupation is _hatsukeya_ (刃付け屋) which is a bladesmith, but specifically the job is _togishi_ (研ぎ師) or a sharpener.



Now here comes the unpopular bit:



BillHanna said:


> it don't daggone matter which master sharpened your knife. One day, YOU are gonna sharpen it; and you ain't him.



If we inevitably have to sharpen knives, do we _really_ need sharpeners?


----------



## M1k3

Pisau said:


> I'm sure @KenHash could expound this better, but the title of the occupation is _hatsukeya_ (刃付け屋) which is a bladesmith, but specifically the job is _togishi_ (研ぎ師) or a sharpener.
> 
> 
> 
> Now here comes the unpopular bit:
> 
> 
> 
> If we inevitably have to sharpen knives, do we _really_ need sharpeners?



Just by the before and after pictures in that Instagram post, yes, yes we do.


----------



## ian

M1k3 said:


> Just by the before and after pictures in that Instagram post, yes, yes we do.



Idk man, I use my knives hard and they always seem to turn back into a blank after a month. Maybe I should stop using them to chop out concrete blocks.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> Idk man, I use my knives hard and they always seem to turn back into a blank after a month. Maybe I should stop using them to chop out concrete blocks.



Nah man. Just make more knives.


----------



## ModRQC

Pisau said:


> I'm sure @KenHash could expound this better, but the title of the occupation is _hatsukeya_ (刃付け屋) which is a bladesmith, but specifically the job is _togishi_ (研ぎ師) or a sharpener.
> 
> 
> 
> Now here comes the unpopular bit:
> 
> 
> 
> If we inevitably have to sharpen knives, do we _really_ need sharpeners?




Thanks for that


----------



## spaceconvoy

'Sharpener' makes perfect sense to me, and only falls short if you underestimate the effect of blade geometry on perceived sharpness.

It's those guys with a bench grinder in a van who corrupted the term, so we should call them edgers instead. Or just blade ruiners.


----------



## tostadas

Did JML reach his question limit on the forums and create a new account just for cleavers and sharpening?


----------



## ModRQC

tostadas said:


> Did JML reach his question limit on the forums and create a new account just for cleavers and sharpening?



I guess it r0bz you the wrong way?


----------



## sansho

there's no point to doing those horizontal swipes through an onion when dicing. it makes no difference. no one will notice that you did it. it's a waste of time.


----------



## Delat

sansho said:


> there's no point to doing those horizontal swipes through an onion when dicing. it makes no difference. no one will notice that you did it. it's a waste of time.



It really is unnecessary. But it’s just so much damn fun I can’t help myself; even when the dish calls for a rough chop there I am doing a fine dice with horizontal swipes.


----------



## Bico Doce

sansho said:


> it's a waste of time.


100% agree, why worry about horizontal swipes when the food probably isn’t going to be good anyways


----------



## ModRQC

Dicing onions is so much fun sometimes I want slices and only realize too late I've went for a full dice. Especially happens when trying new knives...


----------



## Migraine

sansho said:


> there's no point to doing those horizontal swipes through an onion when dicing. it makes no difference. no one will notice that you did it. it's a waste of time.



It also makes it way harder to keep the onion together whilst doing the rest of the chopping.

My personal preference is to cut it in half, leave the root end on and cut the other end off. Peel, then slice with the knife tip towards the root slightly following the curve of the onion but not aiming all the way to the centre, then slice perpendicular to dice. NO horinzontal swipes. 

Someone linked me a research paper which also concluded that is the best method, I'll see if I can find it.


----------



## r0bz

ian said:


> Mazaki is Meh-zaki.



what is Meh-zaki.


----------



## M1k3

r0bz said:


> what is Meh-zaki.


A cousin of Beige-zaki.


----------



## r0bz

Southpaw said:


> And on that note....
> Paper test doesn’t prove ****!


yeha thats right


----------



## Southpaw

Migraine said:


> It also makes it way harder to keep the onion together whilst doing the rest of the chopping.
> 
> My personal preference is to cut it in half, leave the root end on and cut the other end off. Peel, then slice with the knife tip towards the root slightly following the curve of the onion but not aiming all the way to the centre, then slice perpendicular to dice. NO horinzontal swipes.
> 
> Someone linked me a research paper which also concluded that is the best method, I'll see if I can find it.


Lol well I don’t know about your method, but the horizontal cuts thing I totally agree.

I’m assuming your talking about those couple cuts that are parallel with a cutting board, those are a complete waste of time. Is that a non chef knife collector thing or what?


----------



## Migraine

Southpaw said:


> Lol well I don’t know about your method, but the horizontal cuts thing I totally agree.
> 
> I’m assuming your talking about those couple cuts that are parallel with a cutting board, those are a complete waste of time. Is that a non chef knife collector thing or what?









My method is like that, with the first set of cuts shown on the left and the second set on the right (looking at the onion end on on the left and from above on the right).

The horizontal cuts people are talking about are the ones parallel to the board yeah. Awful.


----------



## Michi

sansho said:


> there's no point to doing those horizontal swipes through an onion when dicing. it makes no difference. no one will notice that you did it. it's a waste of time.


Wrong thread. That’s a popular opinion.


----------



## stringer

Migraine said:


> My method is like that, with the first set of cuts shown on the left and the second set on the right (looking at the onion end on on the left and from above on the right).
> 
> The horizontal cuts people are talking about are the ones parallel to the board yeah. Awful.



This is another one of those things where I don't think we're comparing apples to apples. It depends on the size of the onion. Skipping the horizontal cuts might be fine for a small onion. But try doing a brunoise on a half kilo restaurant supply jumbo Spanish without a couple swipes and it just won't work.


----------



## AT5760




----------



## Barmoley

stringer said:


> This is another one of those things where I don't think we're comparing apples to apples. It depends on the size of the onion. Skipping the horizontal cuts might be fine for a small onion. But try doing a brunoise on a half kilo restaurant supply jumbo Spanish without a couple swipes and it just won't work.


That's what I was going to ask. Doesn't it purely depend on the size of the ? I am glad I am not alone.

Another weird thing about onions that I think is totally in my head is that I prefer to cut them lengthwise, root to stem axis, when I need slices, but I think they taste better, stronger when cutting them perpendicular to the root/stem axis.


----------



## ian

Totally depends on onion size vs dice size. If you want a super fine dice/mince, you won’t get it with only radial cuts, because your cut size is limited by the width of the onion segments. 

Anyway, horizontal swipes are hella fun. What are you doing with your time that’s better? Nothing!


----------



## Michi

stringer said:


> It depends on the size of the onion. Skipping the horizontal cuts might be fine for a small onion. But try doing a brunoise on a half kilo restaurant supply jumbo Spanish without a couple swipes and it just won't work.


I was being a little facetious there  We had a previous thread on this:






Le Onion Cutting - drives me crazy


One of my favorite parts of knives is watching people cut with them. I often even watch myself cut with them. something about dicing an onion ... just perfection. BUT it drives me nuts when i dont see horizontal cuts. and even more NUTS seeing half fast horizontal cuts. It must be said ... if...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





For large onions, it's possible to do the radial cuts such that the first cut (closest to the board) is nearly parallel with the board. So, rather than making slightly slanted "vertical" cuts, they are closer to truly being radial. That gets rid of the larger pieces from the side of the onion, at the cost of having smaller dice from near the centre of the onion.

I suspect there is no one true answer. It's bit like the different map projections for a globe. No matter what you do, they are aways wrong in one way or another


----------



## ModRQC

Even on a small onion I’m liable to do parallel to board swipes. Just a couple at the bottom depending on onion size and dice size so that the side pieces are roughly equal to the rest.

I do agree that these are unnecessary and even problematic past the bottom segment. They’ll probably mess the size of the dice because the vertical cuts might - almost probably will - not intersect evenly with those.

Don’t know if I’m making sense - I find it difficult to articulate these thoughts in english.


----------



## ModRQC

Also so called horizontal swipes are an excellent test for tip thinness and sharpness - especially through the biggest part of the onion ergo the important « bottom » ones. Love them for that.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Team Horizontal!


----------



## M1k3

Team dead horse!!


----------



## Bernoulli

sansho said:


> there's no point to doing those horizontal swipes through an onion when dicing. it makes no difference. no one will notice that you did it. it's a waste of time.


I don't slice vertically either - just angle down towards the midpoint.


----------



## parbaked

Folk who don't do horizontal swipes on an onion probably don't double clutch when they're downshifting either....


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

Onions are overrated.
Just stop putting that crap into the food. Problem solved


----------



## spaceconvoy

Serious question for once: do chinese/asian chefs ever do horizontal onion cuts, or is it purely a western thing?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

spaceconvoy said:


> Serious question for once: do chinese/asian chefs ever do horizontal onion cuts, or is it purely a western thing?



I don't know if that cooking style lends itself to fine dice.


----------



## Michi

parbaked said:


> Folk who don't do horizontal swipes on an onion probably don't double clutch when they're downshifting either....


I wonder how many people here actually know what "double clutch" means. I doubt that there are more than a handful who've driven a car that actually requires this


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Michi said:


> I wonder how many people here actually know what "double clutch" means. I doubt that there are more than a handful who've driven a car that actually requires this



I do. Along with rotary phones and real operators.


----------



## ian

Michi said:


> I wonder how many people here actually know what "double clutch" means. I doubt that there are more than a handful who've driven a car that actually requires this



What is a clutch?


----------



## sansho

.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> What is a clutch?




There must a middle finger emoji around here some where...


----------



## tcmx3

Michi said:


> I wonder how many people here actually know what "double clutch" means. I doubt that there are more than a handful who've driven a car that actually requires this


----------



## Delat

ian said:


> What is a clutch?



It’s hitting a 3 pointer to take the lead as the buzzer goes off.


----------



## spaceconvoy




----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> There must a middle finger emoji around here some where...


----------



## ian

Is it like one of those things they used to have back when people drove non-electric cars?

Edit: sorry, I’ll see myself out.


----------



## captaincaed

M1k3 said:


> A cousin of Beige-zaki.


Third cousin twice removed of Taupe-zaki


----------



## IsoJ

ian said:


> Is it like one of those things they used to have back when people drove non-electric cars?
> 
> Edit: sorry, I’ll see myself out.


Electric cars? Have you heard about winter?


----------



## Michi

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I do. Along with rotary phones and real operators.


You must be about as ancient as me then


----------



## MarcelNL

I'm guilty too, although double clutching was already very rare even in my early days of (illegal) driving.


----------



## M1k3

Heel and toe is where it's at!


----------



## MarcelNL

M1k3 said:


> Heel and toe is where it's at!




somehow that worked better in a stick shift than in a car with a sequential gear box...99.9% of my driving is on open roads so these days I favor the sport+ mode for Autobahn as the car uses a more aggressive power mapping for the engine, and 'manual' shifting for everything else


----------



## torbaci

Michi said:


> I have a kitchen that is very generously sized. Despite that, I reach for my 240 or 255 knives only rarely. Almost always, 210 is just about perfect.
> 
> Size matters, but only up to a point.



i cook for a living, and my favorite knife is 21cm masamoto KS

i own or used all kinds of knives from many craftsman, sanjo makers, Y tanaka, fujiwara, TF and more
all shapes and sizes. KS is the one knife i would buy a second time. 

Ok since im in the thread i want to add an item i quess

so here is my thought: home cooks do not need carbon steel knives.
Imagine having a friend over and having to say `_hey dont cut that fruit with my carbon steel knife, and if you do, please clean it but not with the rough side of scrubby or you might damage the finish and after you clean it make sure its dry so it doesnt rust`_

thats some big time nerd energy.
If the homecook had a VG10, they could just say `yeah sure use any knife you like`, that is quality of life.


----------



## Michi

I have a few carbon steel knives. I do like how easy they are to sharpen, and how sharp they can get. I don't like having to baby them, which is why I pull them out only rarely.

To me, pragmatism is where it's at. I rather use a knife that is a smidgen less sharp and that I can leave on the board for fifteen minutes without having to wipe and dry it.


----------



## talcum

I don't post often, but there are a few...

Starbucks coffee always tastes burnt. Darker isn't always better (except in beer)

Calamari is just a hoity toity test to see if you can get someone else to swallow something with way too many legs. Corollary is anything is edible if battered and fried.

A good heat treat on a modern steel will do better than any tamehagane without all the drama

A carbon steel santoku is an oxymoron. Anyone using carbon steel, wouldn't be caught dead using a santoku

Poly cutting boards are just as good (and are dishwasher safe)

A knife review without living with it for at least a month is just an opinion, not a review.

A real knife doesn't fit in an Scanning Electron Microscope (there are only 3 in the world large enough). All the images published are from knives cut up as samples. People who say they looked at how sharp their bevels are on a Shig (etc.) with an SEM, are ********.


----------



## ian

torbaci said:


> so here is my thought: home cooks do not need carbon steel knives.



nobody needs carbon steel knives….




talcum said:


> A real knife doesn't fit in an Scanning Electron Microscope (there are only 3 in the world large enough). All the images published are from knives cut up as samples. People who say they looked at how sharp their bevels are on a Shig (etc.) with an SEM, are ********.



Heh, this is an extremely specific rant. Who are these people claiming to SEM image their Shigs?


----------



## Bico Doce

talcum said:


> A knife review without living with it for at least a month is just an opinion, not a review.


No matter how long you have it, it’s all opinion. If it takes some a month to form that opinion then so be it but tell me you haven’t picked up a knife and knew it wasn’t a good fit immediately


----------



## M1k3

Bico Doce said:


> No matter how long you have it, it’s all opinion. If it takes some a month to form that opinion then so be it but tell me you haven’t picked up a knife and knew it wasn’t a good fit immediately


I've done that before. Immediately had some reservations upon picking it up. I tried to give it a chance. About 30 minutes later, cutting different things, it was time to pack it up.


----------



## Bico Doce

M1k3 said:


> I've done that before. Immediately had some reservations upon picking it up. I tried to give it a chance. About 30 minutes later, cutting different things, it was time to pack it up.View attachment 159806


Help me out here. What am I looking at?


----------



## tcmx3

talcum said:


> A carbon steel santoku is an oxymoron. Anyone using carbon steel, wouldn't be caught dead using a santoku



strong disagree. santokus own.


----------



## Bico Doce

tcmx3 said:


> strong disagree. santokus own.
> 
> View attachment 159807


Im not a santoku guy but this one looks very nice. Should I already know who the maker is and am I displaying my ignorance just by asking?


----------



## tcmx3

Bico Doce said:


> Im not a santoku guy but this one looks very nice. Should I already know who the maker is and I’m displaying my ignorance just by asking?



shigefusa


----------



## Bico Doce

tcmx3 said:


> shigefusa


Thanks! This is the KU that is somewhat reasonably priced or is it something else?


----------



## M1k3

Bico Doce said:


> Help me out here. What am I looking at?


Potato suctioned onto the knife, instead of staying in my hand.


----------



## tcmx3

Bico Doce said:


> Thanks! This is the KU that is somewhat reasonably priced or is it something else?



yep that's the one


----------



## torbaci

ian said:


> nobody needs carbon steel knives….



im older than 30 and have to sharpen my knives daily or bi daily.
its not me but my wrists, elbows and fingers that need the carbon knife, something that i can sharpen daily without spending too much time and effort.

Ok lemme try to blurp out another unpopular thought

Knife sharpening is easy AF and people are over thinking it. There are too many videos, products, lectures, faqs and such about it. its one of the oldest technologies there is, and everyone used to do it at home with their razors and such without watching 9 hours of YouTube guides.

ofcourse if you are %100 new to it, you should watch a few videos, but afterwards u should just grab a knife and go at it, stop watching videos of nerds talking about this stuff, just find the angle and scrape away


----------



## coxhaus

Michi said:


> I wonder how many people here actually know what "double clutch" means. I doubt that there are more than a handful who've driven a car that actually requires this


I do, as I have an old Ford diesel pickup that won't shift worth a dam when it is cold unless you double clutch. I don't drive it much because the clutch is pretty heavy and it is hard on these old legs.


----------



## talcum

Bico Doce said:


> No matter how long you have it, it’s all opinion. If it takes some a month to form that opinion then so be it but tell me you haven’t picked up a knife and knew it wasn’t a good fit immediately


Ah. Too true. I forgot about knives that are "Bad Out of the Box" (BOOTB) I agree there are knives you pick up and immediately know they are gifts for relatives you don't like at Xmas.


----------



## talcum

tcmx3 said:


> strong disagree. santokus own.
> 
> View attachment 159807


So you got this because they were out of the gyutos? - And Wat makes a very nice one too.


----------



## esoo

tcmx3 said:


> strong disagree. santokus own.
> 
> View attachment 159807



While pretty, the copy I had of one of these was one of the worst performing j-knives I've ever had. Way too thick at the shinogi. Sold it after one prep.


----------



## tcmx3

esoo said:


> While pretty, the copy I had of one of these was one of the worst performing j-knives I've ever had. Way too thick at the shinogi. Sold it after one prep.



I could see that; but I like how thick they are ground. thin santokus are a dime a dozen and it's nice to have the power of something like a Tsourkan but in a small package. JMO though.


----------



## esoo

tcmx3 said:


> I could see that; but I like how thick they are ground. thin santokus are a dime a dozen and it's nice to have the power of something like a Tsourkan but in a small package. JMO though.



At the shinogi line, mine was the same thickness that it was at the spine. So 15mm from the edge mine was 2.1mm thick making it a wedge monster. And with the forged in hollow behind the shinogi, if you thin it, you mess up the geometry.

It was a pretty knife and well executed - just not a great cutter.


----------



## ethompson

All the santoku hate is completely overblown. My santoku is what I use half the time for weeknight dinners. Its got enough height to be comfortable on the board, is small and nimble enough that I don't need to be too focused like I would using one of my larger knives, flat enough that it suits my tappy-tap cutting preference, and is just a touch more versatile than my beloved nakiris for when I am prepping proteins as well. They also tend to be dramatically cheaper than other knives for the same steel / maker. 

Not a replacement for a good gyuto, but they are a good small versatile shape. I'd much rather have a santoku than an equivalent bunka.


----------



## tcmx3

ethompson said:


> All the santoku hate is completely overblown. My santoku is what I use half the time for weeknight dinners. Its got enough height to be comfortable on the board, is small and nimble enough that I don't need to be too focused like I would using one of my larger knives, flat enough that it suits my tappy-tap cutting preference, and is just a touch more versatile than my beloved nakiris for when I am prepping proteins as well. They also tend to be dramatically cheaper than other knives for the same steel / maker.
> 
> Not a replacement for a good gyuto, but they are a good small versatile shape. *I'd much rather have a santoku than an equivalent bunka.*



big same.


----------



## tcmx3

talcum said:


> So you got this because they were out of the gyutos? - And Wat makes a very nice one too.



honestly if I could get a gyuto Id get one too.

but I like santokus. theyre fun to polish because of the small size but unlike a petty you have plenty of height so you can actually use them on a board. also I mostly only cook for myself or one other so I rarely actually need a big knife to blast through tons of produce. and when I do, usually Im pulling out a real tank like a Shi.Han or Tsourkan.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ethompson said:


> ...
> 
> I'd much rather have a santoku than an equivalent bunka.



Curious, why?


----------



## Southpaw

talcum said:


> I don't post often, but there are a few...
> 
> Starbucks coffee always tastes burnt. Darker isn't always better (except in beer)
> 
> Calamari is just a hoity toity test to see if you can get someone else to swallow something with way too many legs. Corollary is anything is edible if battered and fried.
> 
> A good heat treat on a modern steel will do better than any tamehagane without all the drama
> 
> A carbon steel santoku is an oxymoron. Anyone using carbon steel, wouldn't be caught dead using a santoku
> 
> Poly cutting boards are just as good (and are dishwasher safe)
> 
> A knife review without living with it for at least a month is just an opinion, not a review.
> 
> A real knife doesn't fit in an Scanning Electron Microscope (there are only 3 in the world large enough). All the images published are from knives cut up as samples. People who say they looked at how sharp their bevels are on a Shig (etc.) with an SEM, are ********.



Agree with a lot of this… especially to have a legit opinion on a knife you need to have used it long enough to have sharpened it a few times.

Your carbon steel santoku point is def wrong. I’m a professional and I go through stints of using Santoku Knives (age 28-30)as my line knife and for some prep.

Also people talking about professionals and carbon steel- it’s only really practical for prep work. If you are cooking on line maybe a SS clad or monosteel will work (if they already have a patina), but iron cladding really can be a b if your trying to care for it during a dinner rush.


----------



## ethompson

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Curious, why?


Not a big fan of anything k-tip beyond traditional kiritsuke to be honest. They're just so darn fragile that even on a soft board, being careful, with good technique the tips often break off (not massively so necessarily, but at least somewhat). The shape of the tip on a santoku carries a little more mass and really makes that less likely. Given I want a knife in this size to be an all rounder I can use for a prepping an easy dinner without stress, a bunka and its needlessly fragile tip runs counter to that goal.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Maybe this is actually a popular option, but anyone who "wouldn't be caught dead" with a santoku is insecure about their masculinity. Reminds me of my father-in-law who refuses to use an umbrella (because holding things with your wrist in the air is effeminate? I honestly don't know) or a straw. The more energy you spend worrying about this stuff, the more obvious it is what you're insecure about.. and everyone is probably laughing at you behind your back.

That said, I don't really like santokus, but that's because of how the handle is angled lower compared to a short gyuto, and the tip isn't as useful.


----------



## tgfencer

spaceconvoy said:


> Maybe this is actually a popular option, but anyone who "wouldn't be caught dead" with a santoku is insecure about their masculinity. Reminds me of my father-in-law who refuses to use an umbrella (because holding things with your wrist in the air is effeminate? I honestly don't know) or a straw. The more energy you spend worrying about this stuff, the more obvious it is what you're insecure about.. and everyone is probably laughing at you behind your back.
> 
> That said, I don't really like santokus, but that's because of how the handle is angled lower compared to a short gyuto, and the tip isn't as useful.



I refuse to use an umbrella too, as I stubbornly and vainly rail against the fact they're incredibly annoying when used on a sidewalk. I'm quite tall and whenever most anybody else uses an umbrella, all the pointy end bits tend to be right at face level for me. Of course, they don't notice they're about to poke my eyes out because they can't see anything underneath the damn thing except their own two feet.


----------



## jedy617

I am just here to say santoku gang till I die (especially carbon)


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ethompson said:


> Not a big fan of anything k-tip beyond traditional kiritsuke to be honest. They're just so darn fragile that even on a soft board, being careful, with good technique the tips often break off (not massively so necessarily, but at least somewhat). The shape of the tip on a santoku carries a little more mass and really makes that less likely. Given I want a knife in this size to be an all rounder I can use for a prepping an easy dinner without stress, a bunka and its needlessly fragile tip runs counter to that goal.



Cool, thanks. I use two different bunkas a fair bit and have never worried about the tips. Neither is super thin but thin enough. Now that I think about it, I'll have to look and see if either of them are actually thinner than my Akifusa gyuto.


----------



## spaceconvoy

tgfencer said:


> I refuse to use an umbrella too, as I stubbornly and vainly rail against the fact they're incredibly annoying when used on a sidewalk. I'm quite tall and whenever most anybody else uses an umbrella, all the pointy end bits tend to be right at face level for me. Of course, they don't notice they're about to poke my eyes out because they can't see anything underneath the damn thing except their own two feet.


If you were using an umbrella too, it would protect you from the other umbrellas 

I understand not liking something, but that's very different from the whole "I refuse for any reason" mentality that only certain men seem to have. He visited my wife and I in Japan when we were studying there over a decade ago, and forgot to bring a raincoat during the rainy season. Still, he stubbornly refused to use an umbrella the whole time, caught a cold on the second day, and was sick the entire trip. But at least he had his dignity? I still don't get it.


----------



## tgfencer

spaceconvoy said:


> If you were using an umbrella too, it would protect you from the other umbrellas
> 
> I understand not liking something, but that's very different from the whole "I refuse for any reason" mentality that only certain men seem to have. He visited my wife and I in Japan when we were studying there over a decade ago, and forgot to bring a raincoat during the rainy season. Still, he stubbornly refused to use an umbrella the whole time, caught a cold on the second day, and was sick the entire trip. But at least he had his dignity? I still don't get it.



Yeah, fair enough. There's a point where being reasonable comes into play, especially when it comes to common sense things like not getting sick.

I'll still stick to holding my personal grudge against these items of public endangerment though.


----------



## stringer

tgfencer said:


> Yeah, fair enough. There's a point where being reasonable comes into play, especially when it comes to common sense things like not getting sick.
> 
> I'll still stick to holding my personal grudge against these items of public endangerment though.



You aren't the only one. I, too, harbor an umbrella embargo for the same reason. I think using an umbrella on a crowded city sidewalk should be illegal unless you are really tall. And then the tall people can hold the umbrellas for shorter people. But since this unlikely to become the law of the land, I keep raincoats in my vehicles and my backpack.


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

torbaci said:


> im older than 30 and have to sharpen my knives daily or bi daily.
> its not me but my wrists, elbows and fingers that need the carbon knife, something that i can sharpen daily without spending too much time and effort.
> 
> Ok lemme try to blurp out another unpopular thought
> 
> Knife sharpening is easy AF and people are over thinking it. There are too many videos, products, lectures, faqs and such about it. its one of the oldest technologies there is, and everyone used to do it at home with their razors and such without watching 9 hours of YouTube guides.
> 
> ofcourse if you are %100 new to it, you should watch a few videos, but afterwards u should just grab a knife and go at it, stop watching videos of nerds talking about this stuff, just find the angle and scrape away


While I agree with 90% of what's written here, I can't understand why the hell are you sharpening knives daily. Are you cutting 8 hours a day? Can't you justify 3-5 knives so you can just swap them when one became dull?


----------



## Southpaw

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Nope. Do they cut electricity
> 
> While I agree with 90% of what's written here, I can't understand why the hell are you sharpening knives daily. Are you cutting 8 hours a day? Can't you justify 3-5 knives so you can just swap them when one became dull?


I don’t even sharpen my Teppanyaki knife more than once or twice a week! That’s cutting on straight metal. There is no reason to sharpen daily!


----------



## ian

Maybe he's a sushi chef.


----------



## McMan

jedy617 said:


> I am just here to say santoku gang till I die (especially carbon)
> 
> View attachment 159835


What's the one on the right?


----------



## torbaci

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> While I agree with 90% of what's written here, I can't understand why the hell are you sharpening knives daily. Are you cutting 8 hours a day? Can't you justify 3-5 knives so you can just swap them when one became dull?



thats what i usually do actually, got 3 knives i rotate thru, and sharpen them all on my offday

but sometimes i just want to use my favorite day after day, and in that case i would need to sharpen it after each shift

i like/want my work knives to be hair popping sharp, or i get very frustrated

for example, we got duck breast with crispy skin on our menu, and anything less then a screaming sharp edge will murder that bird, no matter what steel type i got, i would need to sharpen daily to tackle that piece of ****, urgh, i hate duck


----------



## jedy617

McMan said:


> What's the one on the right?


Hinoura aogami super with a custom handle


----------



## M1k3

Southpaw said:


> Agree with a lot of this… especially to have a legit opinion on a knife you need to have used it long enough to have sharpened it a few times.
> 
> Your carbon steel santoku point is def wrong. I’m a professional and I go through stints of using Santoku Knives (age 28-30)as my line knife and for some prep.
> 
> Also people talking about professionals and carbon steel- it’s only really practical for prep work. If you are cooking on line maybe a SS clad or monosteel will work (if they already have a patina), but iron cladding really can be a b if your trying to care for it during a dinner rush.


I disagree. But I'm crazy. Now if you said don't let coworkers use reactive knives on the line, yes. Agreed!


----------



## JASinIL2006

Santokus are the Nickelback of KKF.


----------



## spaceconvoy

JASinIL2006 said:


> Santokus are the Nickelback of KKF.


The band that sold 50 million albums? If you mean because they're very popular and yet no one will admit to liking them, then I think you're right.


----------



## Qapla'

spaceconvoy said:


> Where is the western Sukenari?



Well, what do you mean by "western Sukenari"? Sukenari makes various knives at various price levels, both western and trad-j.

If you mean western-handle high-alloy gyuto's, I'm currently aware of things like the Yoshihiro HAP40 and the Kanjo ZDP-189, but have no experience with them so I have no idea if they rival Sukenari.


----------



## esoo

Burrs are not required to get sharp knives.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Qapla' said:


> Well, what do you mean by "western Sukenari"? Sukenari makes various knives at various price levels, both western and trad-j.
> 
> If you mean western-handle high-alloy gyuto's, I'm currently aware of things like the Yoshihiro HAP40 and the Kanjo ZDP-189, but have no experience with them so I have no idea if they rival Sukenari.


I meant western makers who sell similar quality knives for similar prices. There don't seem to be any 'high-end factories' in the west, just expensive small batch makers and mediocre factories.


----------



## captaincaed

esoo said:


> Burrs are not required to get sharp knives.


----------



## M1k3

esoo said:


> Burrs are not required to get sharp knives.


The ghost of Cliff Stamp.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> The ghost of Cliff Stamp.



Yeah, that was one I could never get behind. I know a lot of people profess it, but it's never been something I could get behind.


----------



## Bico Doce

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Yeah, that was one I could never get behind. I know a lot of people profess it, but it's never been something I could get behind.


I’ve never heard his name until he passed but he seemed to be a polarizing figure in the knife world. I just watched a video of his and it appeared he achieved the intended result with his method faster than I ever have. Could you point to something specific that you felt was dead wrong in his approach? I’m not a Cliff Stamp proselyte but I can’t seem to pin point why the push back against him.


----------



## Krisman

torbaci said:


> im older than 30 and have to sharpen my knives daily or bi daily.
> its not me but my wrists, elbows and fingers that need the carbon knife, something that i can sharpen daily without spending too much time and effort.
> 
> Ok lemme try to blurp out another unpopular thought
> 
> Knife sharpening is easy AF and people are over thinking it. There are too many videos, products, lectures, faqs and such about it. its one of the oldest technologies there is, and everyone used to do it at home with their razors and such without watching 9 hours of YouTube guides.
> 
> ofcourse if you are %100 new to it, you should watch a few videos, but afterwards u should just grab a knife and go at it, stop watching videos of nerds talking about this stuff, just find the angle and scrape away


Completely agree, even to the point that I thought I was doing something wrong, even though my knives come sharp after not much effort. I thought "it can't be this easy, YouTube says differently". I have mostly cheap knives, with the exception of my new Yu Kurosaki 240 sg2. All are sharp. I'm glad someone else said it


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Bico Doce said:


> I’ve never heard his name until he passed but he seemed to be a polarizing figure in the knife world. I just watched a video of his and it appeared he achieved the intended result with his method faster than I ever have. Could you point to something specific that you felt was dead wrong in his approach? I’m not a Cliff Stamp proselyte but I can’t seem to pin point why the push back against him.



To be clear, I also agreed with Cliff a lot so in no way do I think he was dead wrong, even in this specific example. 

I'm a burr sharpener. I will always be a burr sharpener and I will always teach people how to be a burr sharpener. I'm not entirely convinced you can truly apex without at least some amount finite burr.

But by all means, if you like that style, have at it. There's a lot of roads to sharp edges and the only absolute truth is if your results work for you, then you're method is the right method.


----------



## ian

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I'm a burr sharpener. I will always be a burr sharpener and I will always teach people how to be a burr sharpener. I'm not entirely convinced you can truly apex without at least some amount finite burr.



I guess Cliff's point is that you don't need to rely on feeling a burr to know you've properly apexed an edge. (Yes, there will basically always be a burr, but you don't need to make it pronounced enough to actually feel.) His method seems to be to blunt the entire edge by breadknifing it, so that now light reflects off it when you hold the edge facing a light source, and then verify that you've apexed the edge properly by making sure that the edge no longer reflects direct light. Seems generally sound. His points about never stropping are interesting too. I don't really follow any of his advice, but I may experiment with some of it.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> I guess Cliff's point is that you don't need to rely on feeling a burr to know you've properly apexed an edge. (Yes, there will basically always be a burr, but you don't need to make it pronounced enough to actually feel.) His method seems to be to blunt the entire edge by breadknifing it, so that now light reflects off it when you hold the edge facing a light source, and then verify that you've apexed the edge properly by making sure that the edge no longer reflects direct light. Seems generally sound. His points about never stropping are interesting too. I don't really follow any of his advice, but I may experiment with some of it.



Correct. That was Cliff's method.


----------



## esoo

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I'm a burr sharpener. I will always be a burr sharpener and I will always teach people how to be a burr sharpener. I'm not entirely convinced you can truly apex without at least some amount finite burr.
> 
> But by all means, if you like that style, have at it. There's a lot of roads to sharp edges and the only absolute truth is if your results work for you, then you're method is the right method.



As you said, you have to use what works. For me, that means heel to tip passes, with less than 20 passes per side before I flip. As a result, I really don't develop a burr. 

Are my knives as sharp as some of the top sharpeners here? Probably not, but they do what they need to do in my kitchen, which is cut all the product that I need to with great efficiency.


----------



## ian

I usually count down from 99 to 1, then I do a single edge leading stroke and my knife is sharp. The counting is really important. It's like Zen sharpening; you need to prepare your mind perfectly if you want to condense 15 minute of sharpening into a single stroke.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> I usually count down from 99 to 1, then I do a single edge leading stroke and my knife is sharp. The counting is really important. It's like Zen sharpening; you need to prepare your mind perfectly if you want to condense 15 minute of sharpening into a single stroke.



_"99 edge leading strokes on the wall. 99 edge leading strokes..."_


----------



## Bico Doce

ian said:


> 15 minute of sharpening into a single stroke.


So Ken Onion?


----------



## Bear

torbaci said:


> Imagine having a friend over and having to say `_hey dont cut that fruit with my carbon steel knife, and if you do, please clean it but not with the rough side of scrubby or you might damage the finish and after you clean it make sure its dry so it doesnt rust`_


That's what the forbidden drawer is for, the knife block on the counter is for everyone else, including my better half, not a nerd just a grumpy old man.


----------



## ian

You all let people into your houses?


----------



## big_adventure

ian said:


> You all let people into your houses?



Only when I'm hungry.


----------



## sansho

torbaci said:


> Imagine having a friend over and having to say `_hey dont cut that fruit with my carbon steel knife, and if you do, please clean it but not with the rough side of scrubby or you might damage the finish and after you clean it make sure its dry so it doesnt rust`_



imagine having a post-it note by your wall-mounted magnetic knife strip that says "DO NOT TOUCH (that means you!)"
i actually used to have that for when people would come over. they could use the vic beater "guest knife" if they wanted.

this is probably why i don't have friends anymore. covid is just a convenient excuse.


----------



## talcum

Bear said:


> That's what the forbidden drawer is for, the knife block on the counter is for everyone else, including my better half, not a nerd just a grumpy old man.


No. That might hurt their feelings. You tell them to go ahead and use the stainless steel santoku in the block.


----------



## big_adventure

I have a mag strip with all stainless or mostly-stainless _good _blades on it. They are open-access blades for my kids (who know how to use knives) or friends who also know what they are doing. The only rule is to clean and hang it back up after use.

Then there's the beater strip with 20 year old Mundials on it plus scissors. Those are for anyone who doesn't qualify as knowledgeable to use something good.


----------



## r0bz

spaceconvoy said:


> Serious question for once: do chinese/asian chefs ever do horizontal onion cuts, or is it purely a western thing?


from what i have seen they dont


----------



## stringer

I do far far more damage to my knives than any careless coworker or clueless family member could ever hope to. My knives are far safer in the hands of anyone but me.


----------



## BillHanna

big_adventure said:


> Only when I'm hungry.


----------



## big_adventure

stringer said:


> I do far far more damage to my knives than any careless coworker or clueless family member could ever hope to. My knives are far safer in the hands of anyone but me.



Generally speaking that's true here as well, but then, I use my knives for 99% or so of their total usage, so even if I were much gentler than everyone else, I'd still do the vast majority of the damage.


----------



## big_adventure

BillHanna said:


> View attachment 160011



Exactly.


----------



## M1k3

I just leave a cheap stainless Chinese cleaver out. Plenty of metal to fix any damage that may occur. Enough weight to help cutting for when I neglect sharpening it. Handles being whacked into a sheet pan also.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> I just leave a cheap stainless Chinese cleaver out. Plenty of metal to fix any damage that may occur. Enough weight to help cutting for when I neglect sharpening it. Handles being whacked into a sheet pan also.



Just whack the heel into the olive oil can and walk away.


----------



## Dull_Apex

sansho said:


> imagine having a post-it note by your wall-mounted magnetic knife strip that says "DO NOT TOUCH (that means you!)"
> i actually used to have that for when people would come over. they could use the vic beater "guest knife" if they wanted.
> 
> this is probably why i don't have friends anymore. covid is just a convenient excuse.


Knifewear have already identified the market gap and have stickers :


----------



## spaceconvoy

Sure, his consistency is impressive, but it's getting really dull seeing almost the exact same massdrop knife over and over again. This is why TF is superior


----------



## WiriWiri

spaceconvoy said:


> Sure, his consistency is impressive, but it's getting really dull seeing almost the exact same massdrop knife over and over again. This is why TF is superior



I absolutely agree. It does indeed show a special dedication to achieve such elevated levels of studied inconsistency over decades on the same product lines, resolutely resisting improvement. I must salute Mr TF and his resolute commitment to mitten-fingered welding and unbending resistance to consistent rivet spacing on yo handles, let alone his sterling work in randomising grind quality.

He is indeed a champ with a winningly sincere smile, and we should in no way believe the ill found rumour that WabiSabi actually equates to ‘factory seconds’ in this particular Tokyo neighbourhood.


----------



## Jville

spaceconvoy said:


> Maybe this is actually a popular option, but anyone who "wouldn't be caught dead" with a santoku is insecure about their masculinity. Reminds me of my father-in-law who refuses to use an umbrella (because holding things with your wrist in the air is effeminate? I honestly don't know) or a straw. The more energy you spend worrying about this stuff, the more obvious it is what you're insecure about.. and everyone is probably laughing at you behind your back.
> 
> That said, I don't really like santokus, but that's because of how the handle is angled lower compared to a short gyuto, and the tip isn't as useful.


You went through all that masculinity shaming just to say, you don’t like santokus. Just be secure enough in your masculinity to say santokus are for girls 







stringer said:


> I do far far more damage to my knives than any careless coworker or clueless family member could ever hope to. My knives are far safer in the hands of anyone but me.


I don’t know that Judi chop to that hard squash through the stem with the watanabe was impressive. I would take my chances with you over the aunt who is tossing my knife in the dishwasher.


----------



## Jville

spaceconvoy said:


> Sure, his consistency is impressive, but it's getting really dull seeing almost the exact same massdrop knife over and over again. This is why TF is superior


I think He approves. I can see it in his eyes.


----------



## ModRQC

The "whole Santoku thing" being still fresh at the 89th page of this thread says a lot about shortages of assumed masculinity.

And that's not even going into what's that thing about handles angling lower than same length gyuto. 

So I'm figuring... irony?


----------



## Luftmensch

I get anxious about using santokus because I am worried people will imagine what it looks like when I hold a penis.
I get anxious about holding an umbrella... because I am worried people will imagine what it looks like when I hold a penis.
I get anxious about eating bananas... because I am worried people will imagine what it looks like when I eat a penis.

Fortunately I dont get anxious about holding a penis because I dont have to worry that other people will image what it looks like when I hold a penis. Although... sometimes I worry about holding my own penis because I am worried people will imagine what it looks like when I hold somebody else's penis.


----------



## timebard

Not to yuck anyone's yum, but... sanmai knives with deep s-grinds and strong etching to bring out the core steel halfway up the blade face look weird and hella blotchy. Same to a lesser degree with really jagged, steep wavy cladding lines.


----------



## captaincaed

I could be pretty happy with a King 250/1000, a denim strop, and barely notice a difference in my daily cooking.


----------



## M1k3

captaincaed said:


> I could be pretty happy with a King 250/1000, a denim strop, and barely notice a difference in my daily cooking.


How about a sidewalk, king 6k and a cardboard strop?


----------



## Luftmensch

ethompson said:


> All the santoku hate is completely overblown. My santoku is what I use half the time for weeknight dinners. Its got enough height to be comfortable on the board, is small and nimble enough that I don't need to be too focused like I would using one of my larger knives, flat enough that it suits my tappy-tap cutting preference, and is just a touch more versatile than my beloved nakiris for when I am prepping proteins as well. They also tend to be dramatically cheaper than other knives for the same steel / maker.
> 
> Not a replacement for a good gyuto, but they are a good small versatile shape. I'd much rather have a santoku than an equivalent bunka.



same big same...



tcmx3 said:


> strong disagree. santokus own.



Siblings!! Hey... @tcmx3... there is something wrong with the fit and finish of yours...


----------



## Keith Sinclair

ian said:


> What is a clutch?



They are so rare have to wear it on licence plate cover So much more fun to drive that's a rare opinion because most people don't know how.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Walk around punchbowl crater for exercise crowds not a problem at all. Esp. if it's raining. 

Had a small day pack with gore Tex light rain jacket. The if stopped raining just unzip it. 

If chance of rain now carry a umbrella it's light if starts raining open it up. I think the structure of an umbrella is pretty cool.


----------



## WiriWiri

Keith Sinclair said:


> They are so rare have to wear it on licence plate cover So much more fun to drive that's a rare opinion because most people don't know how.
> 
> View attachment 161413
> View attachment 161414



You realise that well over 50% of European cars are still manual/stick shift? Some estimates are over 80%, with parity in purchases only really coming in the last few years in the UK

<Realises that this is the unpopular opinions thread… Smiles>

…This is because most US drivers are lard-arsed incompetents, driving badly-handling meat tanks in straight lines down idiot-proof grid layouts. Frankly you may as well replace many US roads with travelators, carrying lazy bloaters past a succession of drive throughs and malls.

My parents took me on a road trip in the US when I was young. This remains of the defining boring experiences of my life - hours down a long featureless stretch, occasionally enlivened by a sign or somewhere to eat. I do remember being really puzzled by Harley Davidsons as an 7 year old though - what were these primitive vehicles? They looked like a cross between a child’s trike and a geriatric’s mobility scooter, driven by portly bearded types in midlife crisis mode. I still find the Hells Angels ridiculous to this day


----------



## M1k3

WiriWiri said:


> …This is because most US drivers are lard-arsed incompetents, driving badly-handling meat tanks in straight lines down idiot-proof grid layouts. Frankly you may as well replace many US roads with travelators, carrying lazy bloaters past a succession of drive throughs and malls.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Liked short wheel base sport bikes. When I hear % like that hard to believe. In the US manuals are going extinct. That's because dealers don't carry manuals anymore. Only in sports cars, think you can still buy Jeeps with manual. In US many of Porsche for sale are automatics. It's disgusting.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Wiri you Brits eat greasy fish & chips. Build fancy unreliable cars land rovers that if you did off road like show on commercials better look for a tow truck. When I was in England saw tits on TV & in the newspapers. Tradition princess Margaret's love of well hung men &. Prince Andrew of teenage girls.  Have to say though like your Boxers Lennox Lewis & the Gypsy King.


----------



## WiriWiri

Keith Sinclair said:


> Wiri you Brits eat greasy fish & chips. Build fancy unreliable cars land rovers that if you did off road like show on commercials better look for a tow truck. When I was in England saw tits on TV & in the newspapers. Tradition princess Margaret's love of well hung men &. Prince Andrew of teenage girls.  Have to say though like your Boxers Lennox Lewis & the Gypsy King.



That‘s more like it. I largely agree, albeit I’m confused whether this is meant to be a popular or unpopular set of opinions tbh. Fish and chips is generally greasy dullness, British cars used to almost be as bad as American ones when we still made them, The Queen and her dense nonce children can do one frankly. Oh and Princess Di was a loose slapper who slept with half the ex sportsmen in the Harbour Club to boot

Kind of miss the ’phwoor’ primitivism of the UK tabloids and tits on P3 of a national paper though. No great fan - I am a terribly woke mongrel at heart - but at least it was honest out of date nonsense and largely to be dismissed as tongue in cheek. Rather that than the fake prudism of the US, where people claim piety and there‘s a prissy attitude to swearing and sex, whilst the reality is that the US is the premier producer of porn and violent content worldwide, literally the world leaders in wanking


----------



## chefwp

Keith Sinclair said:


> They are so rare have to wear it on licence plate cover So much more fun to drive that's a rare opinion because most people don't know how.
> 
> View attachment 161414


I admit that I think of my 5-speed also as an additional anti-theft device here in the US...
Sometimes when I am sitting in bumper to bumper crawling traffic I lose that feeling of how much more fun it is to drive and even regret not going automatic, luckily those feelings are fleeting and dissipate as soon as I break free of the jam.


----------



## captaincaed

M1k3 said:


> How about a sidewalk, king 6k and a cardboard strop?


Fuk that king 6k, least favorite stone I've ever used. Take it and leave me the brick.


----------



## ian

M1k3 said:


> How about a sidewalk, king 6k and a cardboard strop?



Sidewalk, bottom of coffee cup, strop on pants.


----------



## tcmx3

chefwp said:


> I admit that I think of my 5-speed also as an additional anti-theft device here in the US...
> Sometimes when I am sitting in bumper to bumper crawling traffic I lose that feeling of how much more fun it is to drive and even regret not going automatic, luckily those feelings are fleeting and dissipate as soon as I break free of the jam.



how do you break free from a traffic jam?

asking for me and the millions of other people in major Texas cities.


----------



## chefwp

tcmx3 said:


> how do you break free from a traffic jam?
> 
> asking for me and the millions of other people in major Texas cities.


I can see how my post was confusing. I didn't realize until I moved away from the Washington DC area that in some parts of the country traffic jams just end on their own, cars achieve separation and start moving at decently high speeds again, and of no doing of your own you've broken free, it's wild!


----------



## tcmx3

chefwp said:


> I can see how my post was confusing. I didn't realize until I moved away from the Washington DC area that in some parts of the country traffic jams just end on their own, cars achieve separation and start moving at decently high speeds again, and of no doing of your own you've broken free, it's wild!



must be nice...


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

tcmx3 said:


> how do you break free from a traffic jam?
> 
> asking for me and the millions of other people in major Texas cities.


----------



## tcmx3

icanhaschzbrgr said:


>



while it's true this is the actual solution in the long run, at least as of today this is an excellent way to get killed by a Dodge Ram 1500 in Texas.


----------



## ethompson

Yeah, I cordially invite @icanhaschzbrgr to take a bike from the burbs of Houston, DFW, or Austin into the city center. I died twice just thinking about having to ride a bike from Katy to downtown Houston and I don't even own a bike or live out there... Also not a viable form of transport in the summer when the low temperatures can be in the high 80s or 90s with matching high humidity unless you plan on showering at the office each day. I wish Texas cities would push for density, public transit, and usable bike-infrastructure, but I don't see the sprawl stopping anytime soon.


----------



## Kippington

timebard said:


> Not to yuck anyone's yum, but... sanmai knives with deep s-grinds and strong etching to bring out the core steel halfway up the blade face look weird and hella blotchy. Same to a lesser degree with really jagged, steep wavy cladding lines.







Actually, that reminds me of handles that match the saya perfectly, which to me looks like this:


----------



## esoo

icanhaschzbrgr said:


>



Don't ride a bike in Texas








A Teenager Hit Six Cyclists While Trying To Roll Coal And Was Not Arrested


The driver is considered a minor in Texas, so the legal consequences are unclear for now.




jalopnik.com


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Wheeler Dealers is one of the better of a lot of stupid car shows here. Like seeing old classics 
brought back to life. Mikey, mechanics started with China, then Ant, & now Elvis.


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

esoo said:


> Don't ride a bike in Texas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Teenager Hit Six Cyclists While Trying To Roll Coal And Was Not Arrested
> 
> 
> The driver is considered a minor in Texas, so the legal consequences are unclear for now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jalopnik.com


To be honest I'm struggling to find any reasons to go to Texas


----------



## Greasylake

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> To be honest I'm struggling to find any reasons to go to Texas


Yeah this is about it





The 72oz Steak - The Big Texan Steak Ranch


How the FREE 72oz STEAK DINNER legend was BORN and the RULES...Soon after the original Route 66 Big Texan open it's doors in 1960, owner Bob (RJ) Lee was amazed ...




www.bigtexan.com


----------



## tally-ho

torbaci said:


> Knife sharpening is easy AF and people are over thinking it. There are too many videos, products, lectures, faqs and such about it. its one of the oldest technologies there is, and everyone used to do it at home with their razors and such without watching 9 hours of YouTube guides.


What about cast iron / carbon skillet seasoning ?
Did our grand-parents bother to know which oil was best for seasoning or how many coats to do before doing the first egg test ? They just used their skillets.


----------



## esoo

tally-ho said:


> What about cast iron / carbon skillet seasoning ?
> Did our grand-parents bother to know which oil was best for seasoning or how many coats to do before doing the first egg test ? They just used their skillets.



When I think about seasoning a pan, I think of my grandmother - cook with fat and don't give a crap otherwise


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

ethompson said:


> Yeah, I cordially invite @icanhaschzbrgr to take a bike from the burbs of Houston, DFW, or Austin into the city center. I died twice just thinking about having to ride a bike from Katy to downtown Houston and I don't even own a bike or live out there... Also not a viable form of transport in the summer when the low temperatures can be in the high 80s or 90s with matching high humidity unless you plan on showering at the office each day. I wish Texas cities would push for density, public transit, and usable bike-infrastructure, but I don't see the sprawl stopping anytime soon.



Well I have few more options (remember what thread we are in)

1. Make all public roads in Texas paid ones. And make them expensive. 

2. Close roads for private cars and develop public transportation.

3. Develop new driving id/license for Texas with Very strict rules and very tough exams. Make it mandatory to pass exams every year.

I could go on, but I think bicycles weren't the worst option.


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

Greasylake said:


> Yeah this is about it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 72oz Steak - The Big Texan Steak Ranch
> 
> 
> How the FREE 72oz STEAK DINNER legend was BORN and the RULES...Soon after the original Route 66 Big Texan open it's doors in 1960, owner Bob (RJ) Lee was amazed ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bigtexan.com


And even this one doesn't look very convincing if you are a vegetarian


----------



## ethompson

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> 3. Develop new driving id/license for Texas with Very strict rules and very tough exams. Make it mandatory to pass exams every year.



You've got my vote for governor!


----------



## parbaked

esoo said:


> Don't ride a bike in Texas


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Electric & self driving vehicles are thought to be the future. 5G with it's huge advantage makes it a possiblity. Batteries have to get better before electric gains dominance over ICE. Hybrids can be a good choice.

We have more bicycle Lanes in recent years. drivers & cyclist have to be aware when making turns. Cars have all these safety things like lane change sensors and warning sounds, lights. 
Some places it's downright dangerous to ride a bike on the street. Folks will ride on the sidewalk I don't blame them as long as courteous to the pedestrians.


----------



## Luftmensch

parbaked said:


>




Do you think he doped for that event??


----------



## chefwp

esoo said:


> Don't ride a bike in Texas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Teenager Hit Six Cyclists While Trying To Roll Coal And Was Not Arrested
> 
> 
> The driver is considered a minor in Texas, so the legal consequences are unclear for now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jalopnik.com


also this:


----------



## Heckel7302

Grantons are just a half-assed S grind.


----------



## M1k3

Grantons are just well executed and strategically placed overgrinds.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Heckel7302 said:


> Grantons are just a half-assed S grind.



S grinds are just overly thick blades with a fuller.


----------



## esoo

M1k3 said:


> Grantons are just well executed and strategically placed overgrinds.



So TFs are just granton ground blades?


----------



## btbyrd

Wabi sabi grantons.


----------



## javi_rome

ethompson said:


> Yeah, I cordially invite @icanhaschzbrgr to take a bike from the burbs of Houston, DFW, or Austin into the city center. I died twice just thinking about having to ride a bike from Katy to downtown Houston and I don't even own a bike or live out there... Also not a viable form of transport in the summer when the low temperatures can be in the high 80s or 90s with matching high humidity unless you plan on showering at the office each day. I wish Texas cities would push for density, public transit, and usable bike-infrastructure, but I don't see the sprawl stopping anytime soon.




Galleria area, hwy 290 and i-45 I hated before, it's ridiculous now with so many out of towners moving in.


----------



## captaincaed

parbaked said:


>



This is a classic. Love it.


----------



## M1k3

esoo said:


> So TFs are just granton ground blades?


No. I said, "well executed and strategically placed"


----------



## esoo

M1k3 said:


> No. I said, "well executed and strategically placed"



meets "wabi-sabi"


----------



## parbaked

TF's grantons are hammer forged, not ground....


----------



## spaceconvoy

Replacing a Slap Chop blade with a Takeda nakiri bent into a zigzag would be a great idea.


----------



## M1k3

spaceconvoy said:


> Replacing a Slap Chop blade with a Takeda nakiri bent into a zigzag would be a great idea.


Ashi Honyaki or bust! Nothing but the best! Or maybe some Mazascus for your Slap Chop? Or Bob Kramer Damascus?


----------



## spaceconvoy

But can you bend those with your bare hands? Does it blend?


----------



## M1k3

spaceconvoy said:


> But can you bend those with your bare hands? Does it blend?


You donate one and I'll run the scientific experiment.


----------



## Troopah_Knives

Unpopular opinion: Low alloy steels are highly overrated. Unless you are talking straight razors there is almost certainly high alloy steel that does everything you want but better.


----------



## Dull_Apex

Troopah_Knives said:


> Unpopular opinion: Low alloy steels are highly overrated. Unless you are talking straight razors there is almost certainly high alloy steel that does everything you want but better.


Which one will rust better?


----------



## M1k3

Troopah_Knives said:


> Unpopular opinion: Low alloy steels are highly overrated. Unless you are talking straight razors there is almost certainly high alloy steel that does everything you want but better.


High alloy steels suck for watching patina formation.

#ChangeMyMind


----------



## captaincaed

Troopah_Knives said:


> Unpopular opinion: Low alloy steels are highly overrated. Unless you are talking straight razors there is almost certainly high alloy steel that does everything you want but better.


Unpopular opinion:
High alloy steels lack the subtlety you need for a truly great kitchen edge. Best for folders. They’ll hold an edge longer, but you won’t like it
Ba-zing!

In all seriousness, a simpler steel with softer carbides gives you so many more sharpening options than the really premium hard carbide steels. It makes touch ups so much easier, and gives you a bit more flexibility on the type of edge you want. A hard precision stainless is a champ at pure function, but sometimes feels a bit numb. Definitely a place for both, just wanted to play along.


----------



## Barmoley

captaincaed said:


> Unpopular opinion:
> High alloy steels lack the subtlety you need for a truly great kitchen edge. Best for folders. They’ll hold an edge longer, but you won’t like it
> Ba-zing!
> 
> In all seriousness, a simpler steel with softer carbides gives you so many more sharpening options than the really premium hard carbide steels. It makes touch ups so much easier, and gives you a bit more flexibility on the type of edge you want. A hard precision stainless is a champ at pure function, but sometimes feels a bit numb. Definitely a place for both, just wanted to play along.


Depends on if you like cutting or sharpening more

For sharpening and polishing affecionados low alloy clad in wrought all the way. For knives to cut with, high alloy ftw.


----------



## M1k3

Z-wear is the best stainless. 

Followed by 52100.


----------



## M1k3

Barmoley said:


> For sharpening and polishing affecionados low alloy clad in wrought all the way.


I resemble the second half of your statement, and reject the first part of it.


----------



## Troopah_Knives

captaincaed said:


> Unpopular opinion:
> High alloy steels lack the subtlety you need for a truly great kitchen edge. Best for folders. They’ll hold an edge longer, but you won’t like it
> Ba-zing!
> 
> In all seriousness, a simpler steel with softer carbides gives you so many more sharpening options than the really premium hard carbide steels. It makes touch ups so much easier, and gives you a bit more flexibility on the type of edge you want. A hard precision stainless is a champ at pure function, but sometimes feels a bit numb. Definitely a place for both, just wanted to play along.



Counterpoint: CPM-3V sharpens up well on stone, has a better hardness-toughness balance than pretty much all the low alloy steels, and has a lower volume of smaller carbides than a large number of low alloy steels. All this while maintaining better wear resistance and as a bonus a pinch of corrosion resistance.


----------



## stringer

Troopah_Knives said:


> Counterpoint: CPM-3V sharpens up well on stone, has a better hardness-toughness balance than pretty much all the low alloy steels, and has a lower volume of smaller carbides than a large number of low alloy steels. All this while maintaining better wear resistance and as a bonus a pinch of corrosion resistance.



How well does it patina? If it's any more stain resistant than 52100 it's a deal breaker. I prefer my knives to have a little more personality than just, "Look at me I am shiny and I stay sharp a long time." Some people become chefs because they like to cook. I became a chef because I like to play with fire, curse like a sailor, and have more excuses to buy knives and spend time sharpening them.


----------



## captaincaed

I am a sailor. I curse when my carbon knife gets dropped in saltwater.


----------



## captaincaed

Troopah_Knives said:


> Counterpoint: CPM-3V sharpens up well on stone, has a better hardness-toughness balance than pretty much all the low alloy steels, and has a lower volume of smaller carbides than a large number of low alloy steels. All this while maintaining better wear resistance and as a bonus a pinch of corrosion resistance.


Ok I admit I haven’t spent much time looking at 3v, looks like a pretty nice steel though. I’m not quite as addicted to patina as some. What I am addicted to is getting a toothy edge that lasts. And not needing diamonds. 3% vanadium seems like Diamond territory to me. What’s been your experience?


----------



## Troopah_Knives

stringer said:


> How well does it patina? If it's any more stain resistant than 52100 it's a deal breaker.



I was only talking pure performance-wise of course there are reasons to want low alloy stuff. For example Hamons. All I'm saying is as far as performance goes there is better stuff out there than low alloy steels.



captaincaed said:


> Ok I admit I haven’t spent much time looking at 3v, looks like a pretty nice steel though. I’m not quite as addicted to patina as some. What I am addicted to is getting a toothy edge that lasts. And not needing diamonds. 3% vanadium seems like Diamond territory to me. What’s been your experience?



It's less about the amount of vanadium than it is about the MC(the really hard carbides) carbide volume. 3V is 4-5% MC carbide volume because it's a very different steel than 4V (lower C higher Cr). For reference AS is like 2% MC carbide volume and its carbides are much larger than 3V and I haven't heard anyone complain about sharpening that on non-diamond stones. I've never had an issue with 3V sharpening.


----------



## captaincaed

Troopah_Knives said:


> It's less about the amount of vanadium than it is about the MC(the really hard carbides) carbide volume. 3V is 4-5% MC carbide volume because it's a very different steel than 4V (lower C higher Cr). For reference AS is like 2% MC carbide volume and its carbides are much larger than 3V and I haven't heard anyone complain about sharpening that on non-diamond stones. I've never had an issue with 3V sharpening.



I may have to admit to being a mediocre sharpener, and I’m happy to wear that mantle (and be unpopular). For my money, it’s less about carbide volume than hardness. I this case, 3V has both more MC carbide volume, and harder carbides. If I were going for a toothy edge that’s relatively easy to achieve on different types of stones, I would personally lean toward toward AS/52100/Blue/White#x. I’m not exactly sure where carbide size/hardness factors into edge quality (I know larger carbides reduce toughness), but it seems I get an edge I’m happy with in the kitchen for longer periods of time with smaller, softer carbides. Sharpening is more satisfying, takes less time, can be done with a wide variety of stones/mug bottoms (great for travel knives), blah blah I’m an old fogey.


----------



## M1k3

captaincaed said:


> Ok I admit I haven’t spent much time looking at 3v, looks like a pretty nice steel though. I’m not quite as addicted to patina as some. What I am addicted to is getting a toothy edge that lasts. And not needing diamonds. 3% vanadium seems like Diamond territory to me. What’s been your experience?


Psst, it's Z-wear with less carbon. Pretty good stainless.


----------



## Troopah_Knives

@captaincaed I will absolutely die on this hill  . A2 has a better hardness toughness balance and a low volume of soft carbides for better wear resistance.YXR7 has a similar MC carbide volume to AS but they are smaller and it has better hardness toughness balance. My point is basically with a little searching you could find something in the high alloy range that works better for you performance-wise. Although it certainly doesn't/shouldn't be the most important part of the equation.



M1k3 said:


> Psst, it's Z-wear with less carbon. Pretty good stainless.



Absolutely although the actual structure is a bit finer than z-wear because it doesn't have any chromium carbides.


----------



## ethompson

I'll admit, I tend to steer clear of stainless knives because I like the character you get from reactive steels, so my experience is limited. But I've owned/used Ginsan, SKD, and VG10 and none of them, in my experience, offered anything beyond corrosion resistance compared to my favorite carbon steels. My 52100 Z-Kramer that I used for a long time had plenty of toughness for my use, holds an edge decently well, and most importantly, was easy to bring back to life with a few haphazard swipes on a basic king 1000 stone at the end of each day. My favorite steel I've used so far was my Takeda AS. That could keep a good edge of a few days, I never had issues with chipping even at a zero-grind, and also was easy to sharpen as needed after a long day of prep with whatever I already had out and around. I felt like with all the stainless I've used I had to work just a bit harder to get a nice toothy, stable, crisp edge.

That said, I'm open to having my mind changed on this, so what stainless should should I be looking for as a comparison to AS, @Troopah_Knives? Most important to me is the ability too quickly and easily refresh an edge without specialized abrasives and edge retention. I'd take one through its paces for a month or so at work and report back to see if I can be won over.


----------



## captaincaed

ethompson said:


> Most important to me is the ability too quickly and easily refresh an edge without specialized abrasives and edge retention.


☝


----------



## Troopah_Knives

ethompson said:


> That said, I'm open to having my mind changed on this, so what stainless should should I be looking for as a comparison to AS, @Troopah_Knives?



btw high alloy isn't the same as stainless it's basically a shorthand for all the steels with 4% cr+. As for something kinda similar to AS A2, 3V, and Caldie at the high end of their hardness range are all going to be fairly easy to sharpen have finer carbides than AS, better wear resistance, and a pinch of corrosion resistance. That said of course it's much easier to find AS than some of those steel. However, my argument is on the theoretical end, not the practical.


----------



## tcmx3

3V is amazing and I wish more kitchen knives used it.

frankly I dont prefer aogami super myself; blue 1 and 2 and 52100 are the best compromises I've used in knives, at least for my taste.


----------



## M1k3

tcmx3 said:


> 3V is amazing and I wish more kitchen knives used it.
> 
> frankly I dont prefer aogami super myself; blue 1 and 2 and 52100 are the best compromises I've used in knives, at least for my taste.


@HSC /// Knives uses Z-wear, which is 3V with a little extra carbon added.


----------



## Barmoley

3V is an interesting steel, but it is usually not hardened very hard, since it looses a lot of what makes it special at high hardness. I've never actually seen it above 62 HRC. Have you guys tried it at higher hardness? On paper I would prefer Z-wear class, but I don't think Z-wear is hard to sharpen or touch up. Now days, with existence of MagnaCut, hard to make an argument for anything else in that class of steels.


----------



## Troopah_Knives

Barmoley said:


> 3V is an interesting steel, but it is usually not hardened very hard, since it looses a lot of what makes it special at high hardness. I've never actually seen it above 62 HRC. Have you guys tried it at higher hardness? On paper I would prefer Z-wear class, but I don't think Z-wear is hard to sharpen or touch up. Now days, with existence of MagnaCut, hard to make an argument for anything else in that class of steels.



I've run it at 64rc with no real issues still maintained good toughness especially with the right process. I was talking 3v because it has a much lower carbide volume (5% vs 10%). I agree Magnacut is preferable to either unless you are super picky about sharpening in which case Z-wear is nice because it has only 3.5% MC carbide volume along with easy-to-cut enriched Chromium carbides.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

To continue off topic... BRING ON THE MAGNACUT!!!


----------



## M1k3

ApexUltra!


----------



## captaincaed

No more MagnaCut!


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

captaincaed said:


> No more MagnaCut!



Way to bring us back on topic.


----------



## captaincaed

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Way to bring us back on topic.


----------



## captaincaed

1084!


----------



## spaceconvoy

440C is the best stainless steel because it's one of the oldest. I don't trust MagnaCut because no one knows what the long term effects are yet.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

spaceconvoy said:


> 440C is the best stainless steel because it's one of the oldest. I don't trust MagnaCut because no one knows what the long term effects are yet.



I will not bite this.


----------



## WiriWiri

HumbleHomeCook said:


> To continue off topic... BRING ON THE MAGNACUT!!!





captaincaed said:


> No more MagnaCut!



I’m not sure about this MagnaCut stuff. The very mention seems to make even mild mannered peeps like HHC a little bit shouty. There’s also something about the very name itself that can’t help but bring to mind red faced people wearing silly little red slogan caps. I’ve seen them on Fox News, where I believe they were often worn by patriots on a recent peaceful outing to the capitol, an entirely appropriate event that should in no way be confused with a domestic terrorism or clumsy anti-democratic coup attempt.

Anyway MagnaCut Is badly named. It’s not an acronym or anagram - it’s just one badly misplaced letter from an offensive verbal disaster, And what’s an ‘n’ between friends anyway?

Perhaps I’m warming to MagnaCut after all. I’d like to see _that_ on some of those caps anyway.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

WiriWiri said:


> I’m not sure about this MagnaCut stuff. The very mention seems to make even mild mannered peeps like HHC a little bit shouty. There’s also something about the very name itself that can’t help but bring to mind red faced people wearing silly little red slogan caps. I’ve seen them on Fox News, where I believe they were often worn by patriots on a recent peaceful outing to the capitol, an entirely appropriate event that should in no way be confused with a domestic terrorism or clumsy anti-democratic coup attempt.
> 
> Anyway MagnaCut Is badly named. It’s not an acronym - it’s just one badly misplaced letter from an offensive verbal disaster, And what’s an ‘n’ between friends anyway?
> 
> Perhaps I’m warming to MagnaCut after all. I’d like to see _that_ on some of those caps anyway.



@Larrin did have reason for the naming.

Among the many other sources of so far of very positive news on MagnaCut, there are two great threads on the Spyderco forum. One is by Surfingringo on it's corrosion resistance. If you don't know Lance, I assure you, no one will put their knives through more than he does. And there's another by Deadboxhero on edge retention.

Both are on going but being well executed and updated. So far, this steel is making me very excited to see it in the kitchen.


----------



## M1k3

Why does no one pattern weld 1095 and rex 121 for the ultimate sawtooth edge?


----------



## Dhoff

I swear, all you youngsters. 

I only want to use my flint-knife, talk about character development when it chips! way better than patina


----------



## Larrin

Magna is a Latin word and it hasn’t been used by any political groups in recent years that I am aware of. Geologists aren‘t providing a coded political message when discussing magma either.


----------



## captaincaed

Be honest. When the steel was being melted (forgive me for not knowing the correct term), were there any MagmaCut jokes passed around?


----------



## bahamaroot

@Larrin Is MagnaCut now ApexUltra or are we talking to different things?


----------



## M1k3

bahamaroot said:


> @Larrin Is MagnaCut now ApexUltra or are we talking to different things?


Different.


----------



## Barmoley

bahamaroot said:


> @Larrin Is MagnaCut now ApexUltra or are we talking to different things?


2 totally different steels.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Wiri we Americans are not all rednecks & hillbilly's that are guilty of incest.


----------



## WiriWiri

Keith Sinclair said:


> Wiri we Americans are not all rednecks & hillbilly's that are guilty of incest.



I agree, This is the unpopular opinions thread after all

(and at least 50% are you are wishy-washy metrosexual immigrant types too)

Cheers, I’m off to drink tea through my bad teeth, whilst singing ‘rule Britannia’ under a pic of her majesty.


----------



## WiriWiri

Anyway, changing tack. Swedish Bladesmiths can do one. Yeah, you heard me right.

Inspired by the knives that make you go whoa thread, I found myself browsing the Birgesson blades site and - between unfortunate drooling incidents - had a cotton picking epiphany of a moment. I mean, I originally came here to look at Japanese knives, gradually, gloriously bankrupting myself in the pursuit. Why then do I find myself now looking at floods of Swedish knives from multiple makers, bloody fine ones at that, getting all tempted again.





Not only that, look at that pic of Bjorn. The hefty macho git is mancrush material, mocking those wizened fish-eating Japanese masters by mastering his art early and with big muscles to boot. Plus all those Swedes seem to be such amiable, intelligent and sickeningly co-operative, level headed Euro-types. You can imagine Bjorn, Dalman and that Issa fellow all getting together every Eurovision night, singing along in amusing costumes and joyously drinking aquavit, shatting Honyakis out along the way.

We don’t tend to like successful. attractive people on this bitter little island. We like to cut tall poppies down. I’m starting now - I, for one, will definitely not be buying knives from these cocky Viking wankers.*



*not in the immediate future anyway, but I’d welcome anyone sending me any of these beautiful knives to assess in the meantime. Cheers


----------



## spaceconvoy

I guess some things never change





Text:
One 13th century chronicle attributed a slaughter of Danes by Anglo-Saxons in 1002 to the former’s irresistibility to the latter’s spouses: “The Danes made themselves too acceptable to English women by their elegant manners and their care of their person. They combed their hair daily, according to the custom of their country, and took a bath every Saturday, and even changed their clothes frequently, and improved the beauty of their bodies with many such trifles, by which means they undermined the chastity of wives.”


----------



## tcmx3

usually when someone says they dont want where they live to turn into some other place, the other place is better.

especially around where I live.


----------



## captaincaed

Knife pictures in cars are the mullet-and-sagging-jeans of this little knife world. You can wait 20".


----------



## stringer

captaincaed said:


> Knife pictures in cars are the mullet-and-sagging-jeans of this little knife world. You can wait 20".



But if one were to have a mullet and happen to wear sagging jeans then would knife pics in the car from the redneck flea market parking lot still be okay? Asking for a friend.


----------



## captaincaed

stringer said:


> But if one were to have a mullet and happen to wear sagging jeans then would knife pics in the car from the redneck flea market parking lot still be okay? Asking for a friend.


As someone cleaning sagging jeans out of his own closet...let's say fine for personal use on weekends.


----------



## Jville

M1k3 said:


> Z-wear is the best stainless.
> 
> Followed by 52100.


Perhaps, I misunderstood your statement. Is 52100 your favorite carbon steel, obviously it’s not stainless.


----------



## M1k3

Jville said:


> Perhaps, I misunderstood your statement. Is 52100 your favorite carbon steel, obviously it’s not stainless.


----------



## Jville

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 165559


That's mean lol, but yeah I missed your "joke." Perhaps, I overlooked your comments leading up to it. Or just wasn't picturing your personality with the statement. A subtle zinger.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Mr. Rodgers was the greatest military strategist of the 20th century


----------



## MarcelNL

@WiriWiri You forgot the limp because of rachitis


----------



## M1k3

Jville said:


> That's mean lol, but yeah I missed your "joke." Perhaps, I overlooked your comments leading up to it. Or just wasn't picturing your personality with the statement. A subtle zinger.


It's the "Unpopular Opinions" thread. Popular Opinion would be like "Ginsan is better than AEB-H".


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Food release is heavily overrated.


----------



## stringer

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Food release is heavily overrated.



I hear this thing is incredible for food release



Amazon.com


----------



## Jville

M1k3 said:


> It's the "Unpopular Opinions" thread. Popular Opinion would be like "Ginsan is better than AEB-H".


True dat, I was being too literal.


----------



## Rangen

Cutco >> TF Denka

Lifetime sharpening service? Cutco: yes. TF Denka: no
Corrosion-resistant? Cutco: yes. TF Denka: no
If you want more knives, will the salesman visit your house? Cutco: yes TF Denka: no
Do buyers often correct the grind? Cutco: no, almost never TF Denka: sometimes


----------



## Jville

Rangen said:


> Cutco >> TF Denka
> 
> Lifetime sharpening service? Cutco: yes. TF Denka: no
> Corrosion-resistant? Cutco: yes. TF Denka: no
> If you want more knives, will the salesman visit your house? Cutco: yes TF Denka: no
> Do buyers often correct the grind? Cutco: no, almost never TF Denka: sometimes


He hears you, and he is not smiling


----------



## JASinIL2006

This is the only knife anyone needs. It does it all, and looks cooler than a Serbian cleaver.


----------



## M1k3

JASinIL2006 said:


> This is the only knife anyone needs. It does it all, and looks cooler than a Serbian cleaver.
> 
> 
> View attachment 165640
> 
> View attachment 165641


Thems is fightin' words! @Isasmedjan

P.S. Can you one up it?


----------



## Jovidah

That knife looks like it got attacked and chewed up by a dragon. I bet the dragon fire ruined the heat treatment...


----------



## pavhav

JASinIL2006 said:


> This is the only knife anyone needs. It does it all, and looks cooler than a Serbian cleaver.


If a dually became a cutting implement. Lifted, with chrome rims of course. The finger choil your ego thinks it needs and a cowlick to boot.


----------



## JASinIL2006

And it has a holster, for god's sake! A holster!


----------



## spaceconvoy

pavhav said:


> ...and a cowlick to boot.



My first thought was bottle opener? But it looks too big, seems like a missed opportunity. And apparently someone else already had this terrible idea.




This is the more reasonable amazon version. There's one on ebay that truly should be a criminal offense to produce and distribute.




Mmmm, love the taste of glass and blood in my beer. If anyone's curious, it's called the Skull Cleaver Hunting Survival Knife Full Tang w/ Cord Cutter Bottle Opener


----------



## M1k3

spaceconvoy said:


> My first thought was bottle opener? But it looks too big, seems like a missed opportunity. And apparently someone else already had this terrible idea.
> View attachment 165699
> 
> This is the more reasonable amazon version. There's one on ebay that truly should be a criminal offense to produce and distribute.
> View attachment 165701
> 
> Mmmm, love the taste of glass and blood in my beer. If anyone's curious, it's called the Skull Cleaver Hunting Survival Knife Full Tang w/ Cord Cutter Bottle Opener


With cord? 
Oh wait punctuation isn't a thing with this knife's description Such a pity Would make all the random descriptive words make more sense Especially for people that need more caffeine in their blood stream


----------



## spaceconvoy

M1k3 said:


> With cord?
> Oh wait punctuation isn't a thing with this knife's description Such a pity Would make all the random descriptive words make more sense Especially for people that need more caffeine in their blood stream


I think it's a legal strategy. If a customer complains the unsharpened notch obviously can't cut cord, they can claim it's really just a bottle opener shaped like a cord cutter, and vice versa.


----------



## Jovidah

Honestly as long as it doesn't hurt the usability as a knife I don't have a problem with adding a bottle opener _somewhere._ It might lok a bit crappy but some might find it really useful for something like a BBQ knife.


----------



## M1k3

Has no one just used the spine of a knife to open beer bottles? I do it at work...for beer batter.


----------



## M1k3




----------



## Jovidah

Pretty much any piece of cutlery, furniture, and even the bottles themselves are quite easy to open other bottles with... yet some people are still buying bottle openers for some reason, so there must be market for it.
My normal go to is the back end of a fork or spoon. Well used to be when I could still drink beer without getting sick.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Bottle Opener: Everyone should carry a Victorinox Rambler. I use my for something or another almost daily.






Check this out:Rambler


Victorinox Rambler - 0.6363 ++ Explore the world of perfect Swiss quality online ++ Home of the Original Swiss Army knife ++ Order online ++




www.swissarmy.com


----------



## JASinIL2006

If you get the Klingon War Cleaver (with holster!) that I found, you don't remove the bottle cap, you just chop off the neck of the bottle!


----------



## Jovidah

I think I do enough rambling on my own that I don't need a seperate tool for it...


----------



## M1k3

JASinIL2006 said:


> If you get the Klingon War Cleaver (with holster!) that I found, you don't remove the bottle cap, you just chop off the neck of the bottle!


In old country, bottle cap chop off the neck of you!


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> In old country, bottle cap chop off the neck of you!



Baaaaaah! Weak! In _myyyyyy _old country we get cow drunk and then drink from teet! 

bwahahahahaha


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Baaaaaah! Weak! In _myyyyyy _old country we get cow drunk and then drink from teet!
> 
> bwahahahahaha


In old country, cow get you drunk and then drink from teet.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> In old country, cow get you drunk and then drink from teet.



Impressive. Can I touch your clever?


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Impressive. Can I touch your clever?


----------



## captaincaed

'Ow doez uone, myeaszhure ze geyooto gchReatness? Deuez he zeek ze szarpness, ze ghRind, ze un-ottainubleness? Ze myth aund myzteek?

**** off. Go cut with it. 

Or use my recommended test. Self circumcision with the least pain. Be honest with yourself on how it feels. Remember you don't have much to practice with.


----------



## Bico Doce

captaincaed said:


> 'Ow doez uone, myeaszhure ze geyooto gchReatness? Deuez he zeek ze szarpness, ze ghRind, ze un-ottainubleness? Ze myth aund myzteek?
> 
> **** off. Go cut with it.
> 
> Or use my recommended test. Self circumcision with the least pain. Be honest with yourself on how it feels. Remember you don't have much to practice with.


So would you recommend using a petty for such a small ingredient? Asking for a friend…


----------



## Jovidah

Actually I think cutting foreskins would be a pretty poor test; soft meat is pretty forgiving to mediocre grinds, and I don't think anyone will be able to muster up the excitement to properly test for wedging...


----------



## captaincaed




----------



## MarcelNL

Jovidah said:


> Actually I think cutting foreskins would be a pretty poor test; soft meat is pretty forgiving to mediocre grinds, and I don't think anyone will be able to muster up the excitement to properly test for wedging...


If you can think this up there is someone eager to accept out there and likely they have a dedicated forum...


----------



## ian

captaincaed said:


>


----------



## Philip Yu

This happened to me in another club. Someone threatened to take me to the Authorities because he thought I was intoxicated doing a cutting video with my son holding the camera. I don't think I did anything wrong, even legally. I wasn't drunk, didn't lash out or act out in the video but am I the only one getting these comments?


----------



## Bico Doce

Philip Yu said:


> This happened to me in another club. Someone threatened to take me to the Authorities because he thought I was intoxicated doing a cutting video with my son holding the camera. I don't think I did anything wrong, even legally. I wasn't drunk, didn't lash out or act out in the video but am I the only one getting these comments?


What were you cutting in the video??


----------



## M1k3

Philip Yu said:


> This happened to me in another club. Someone threatened to take me to the Authorities because he thought I was intoxicated doing a cutting video with my son holding the camera. I don't think I did anything wrong, even legally. I wasn't drunk, didn't lash out or act out in the video but am I the only one getting these comments?


Some people just suck. I've had someone say some really horrible things to me, just for pointing out their Instagram was private. After they said to check it out.


----------



## Philip Yu

Bico Doce said:


> What were you cutting in the video??


Diakon Radishes, lotus roots, tomatoes, peppers. I made an obstacle course test mostly of root vegetables cuz I had a friend tune my 210 Nakiri, which I was going to make my root veggies knife.


----------



## ian

Philip Yu said:


> Diakon Radishes, lotus roots, tomatoes, peppers. I made an obstacle course test mostly of root vegetables cuz I had a friend tune my 210 Nakiri, which I was going to make my root veggies knife.



As long as you weren’t following @captaincaed’s advice, it’s super strange that the other person commented like that.


----------



## Philip Yu

M1k3 said:


> Some people just suck. I've had someone say some really horrible things to me, just for pointing out their Instagram was private. After they said to check it out.


Everybody else was very gracious from commenting about my son's camera work to his timely commentary. A couple said I could try do something rather that push straight down all the time which I took to heart.


----------



## M1k3

Philip Yu said:


> Everybody else was very gracious from commenting about my son's camera work to his timely commentary. A couple said I could try do something rather that push straight down all the time which I took to heart.


Nothing wrong with mixing it up. Or liking what you like.


----------



## stringer

Philip Yu said:


> This happened to me in another club. Someone threatened to take me to the Authorities because he thought I was intoxicated doing a cutting video with my son holding the camera. I don't think I did anything wrong, even legally. I wasn't drunk, didn't lash out or act out in the video but am I the only one getting these comments?



People on the internet suck. Keep doing what you are doing


----------



## Jovidah

M1k3 said:


> Nothing wrong with mixing it up. Or liking what you like.


What if you're a Russian dictator who likes Ukraine?


----------



## Philip Yu

stringer said:


> People on the internet suck. Keep doing what you are doing


Thank you. I'm only saying this cuz I found when my son is behind the camera, I stutter less, I'm not so worried on not making mistakes and the video actually flows instead of awkward silence as I think up what to say. I really want to keep my son behind the camera, especially when he wants to grow up to be an influencer.


----------



## M1k3

Jovidah said:


> What if you're a Russian dictator who likes Ukraine?


Then ride your horse shirtless, showing off your weird nipples?


----------



## MarcelNL

I'm very happy we can still make those jokes, the area on the globe where that is impossible is increasing as we type...


----------



## Jville

Philip Yu said:


> Everybody else was very gracious from commenting about my son's camera work to his timely commentary. A couple said I could try do something rather that push straight down all the time which I took to heart.


You were chopping in front of your son as he sat there watching you and videotaping? You freaking pervert; you should be ashamed of yourself.


----------



## captaincaed

ian said:


>


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

.


----------



## Lars

I love White #2


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Lars said:


> I love White #2



Yeah but you also really like duck so...


----------



## M1k3




----------



## captaincaed

Carter's shark jumping has gone to new heights. Even Japanese makers have gone double bevel "yanagiba", but now he has "stealth damascus", or as I like to call it "an unfinished knife." Wait, both of those sound like TF. Is he becoming the American TF? Will we soon see his face on boxes?


----------



## Carl Kotte

More face box! More face box! More face box!


----------



## IsoJ

Carl Kotte said:


> More face box! More face box! More face box!


Carter needs to up his enjoyment face quite a bit before printing


----------



## Carl Kotte

IsoJ said:


> Carter needs to up his enjoyment face quite a bit before printing


Any pic from honest ranch Will do


----------



## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> Any pic from honest ranch Will do


I'm not sure I'd like to see one of him in his "traditional Japanese hot tub"


----------



## DitmasPork

Carl Kotte said:


> More face box! More face box! More face box!


----------



## bahamaroot

captaincaed said:


> ...Even Japanese makers have gone double bevel "yanagiba".....


Otherwise known as a sujihiki...


----------



## JASinIL2006

Carl Kotte said:


> More face box! More face box! More face box!


----------



## Carl Kotte

JASinIL2006 said:


> View attachment 175677


’Said the man comparing his own knives’


----------



## JASinIL2006

Carl Kotte said:


> ’Said the man comparing his own knives’



Touché!


----------



## Jville

Carl Kotte said:


> More face box! More face box! More face box!


----------



## Chicagohawkie

JASinIL2006 said:


> View attachment 175677


Only here to cash checks at this point!


----------



## MSicardCutlery

If colloquially, hunting knives are called "hunters" skinning knives are called "skinners", and fighting knives are called "fighters" then it stands to reason that boning knives should be known as "boners"


----------



## Heckel7302

MSicardCutlery said:


> If colloquially, hunting knives are called "hunters" skinning knives are called "skinners", and fighting knives are called "fighters" then it stands to reason that boning knives should be known as "boners"


I always refer to my vintage forgecraft boning knife as my 6 inch boner. IMHO this should be in the "popular opinions" thread.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

Heckel7302 said:


> I always refer to my vintage forgecraft boning knife as my 6 inch boner. IMHO this should be in the "popular opinions" thread.


I'm good with the term, but you'd have to be the only other person I've encountered that is.


----------



## captaincaed




----------



## MowgFace

MSicardCutlery said:


> I'm good with the term, but you'd have to be the only other person I've encountered that is.



Haha 






Search results for query: Boner







www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## MSicardCutlery

MowgFace said:


> Haha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Search results for query: Boner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com


I didn't think to deliberately search for it. That's just asking for trouble on the internet


----------



## esoo

Boner Music (NSFW)


----------



## Eziemniak

There is a design department making sure gastro trays don not stack up, even if they have the same dimensions. This particular department hires people who as kids used to torture small animals.


----------



## tcmx3

Eziemniak said:


> There is a design department making sure gastro trays don not stack up, even if they have the same dimensions. This particular department hires people who as kids used to torture small animals.



just saw a review of 54mm burr coffee grinders and 1 company made their screw hole pattern not fit all the rest like come on


----------



## Barmoley

People who say that a knife/steel holds an edge forever have very low standards or don't use the knife.

I understand that as long as the knife is pretty thin behind the edge it can continue cutting even when dull. I've tried many steels from the best makers and sharpeners and none of them stayed super sharp, as in cutting ripe tomatoes easily or paper towel effortlessly for extremely long. Some steels/knives stay sharp much longer than others, but not for months or years as some claim, not in my use.....


----------



## spaceconvoy

Everyone has different standards.. some "passionate" home cooks may only make two meals a week.

Technique plays a role in perceived sharpeness too. Maybe you only consider a knife to be sharp if it can chop straight up and down through tomato skin like butter. If someone else only makes draw cuts, their knife will seem just as sharp for much longer.

edit: I forgot what thread I was in, my apologies for posting such a sensible opinion


----------



## Tea_Hills

Barmoley said:


> People who say that a knife/steel holds an edge forever have very low standards or don't use the knife.
> 
> I understand that as long as the knife is pretty thin behind the edge it can continue cutting even when dull. I've tried many steels from the best makers and sharpeners and none of them stayed super sharp, as in cutting ripe tomatoes easily or paper towel effortlessly for extremely long. Some steels/knives stay sharp much longer than others, but not for months or years as some claim, not in my use.....



At least I know I'm not crazy out here. I have also found that an edge with some bite will outlast a perfectly smooth and sharp edge at least in terms of a working edge.


----------



## Barmoley

spaceconvoy said:


> Everyone has different standards.. some "passionate" home cooks may only make two meals a week.
> 
> Technique plays a role in perceived sharpeness too. Maybe you only consider a knife to be sharp if it can chop straight up and down through tomato skin like butter. If someone else only makes draw cuts, their knife will seem just as sharp for much longer.
> 
> edit: I forgot what thread I was in, my apologies for posting such a sensible opinion


You are not wrong on both accounts, standards/technique having a difference and the nature of this thread. I agree and get all this and yet the talk of forever sharp edges just bugs me. I also use draw cuts on tomatoes when the knife stops cutting well when cutting in the down with slight forward motion, but I wouldn't say that it is optimally sharp at that point. I can continue cutting all sorts of things long after and it's fine and draw cuts extend this time. But, but, but the knife is not as sharp at this point and it continues dulling and even I, an armature home cook can tell the difference. Will the knife still cut at this point, it sure will. Since sharp is not a quantitative term we run into these conundrums.


----------



## tcmx3

"Am I the only one" should be illegal. 

Firstly, in a world of 8 billion people it's almost impossible you're the only one. Secondly, the person asking always knows this.

Be honest and phrase it as "please agree with me"


----------



## ModRQC

tcmx3 said:


> "Am I the only one" should be illegal.
> 
> Firstly, in a world of 8 billion people it's almost impossible you're the only one. Secondly, the person asking always knows this.
> 
> Be honest and phrase it as "please agree with me"


You are a snowflake, unique and beautiful.


----------



## spaceconvoy

To make up for the lack of controversy in my last statement:

Am I the only one who thinks flat-earthers have a point? The earth _is_ flat for the vast majority of people. After all, spacetime is curved, but physicists pretend that 'local flatness' is a legitimate concept. In that sense, the earth is 'locally flat' for most people who aren't flying commercial planes or working with satellites. 

Physicists, a.k.a. 'flat-spacers' are hypocrites.


----------



## Bear

Birds aren't real?


----------



## Heckel7302

Barmoley said:


> People who say that a knife/steel holds an edge forever have very low standards or don't use the knife.
> 
> I understand that as long as the knife is pretty thin behind the edge it can continue cutting even when dull. I've tried many steels from the best makers and sharpeners and none of them stayed super sharp, as in cutting ripe tomatoes easily or paper towel effortlessly for extremely long. Some steels/knives stay sharp much longer than others, but not for months or years as some claim, not in my use.....


As a home cook with almost 40 knives, since I try to rotate through them all, I end up using each knife less than once a month for cutting like three things. Sometimes I wish they would dull faster so I can enjoy sharpening them more often.


----------



## blokey

tcmx3 said:


> just saw a review of 54mm burr coffee grinders and 1 company made their screw hole pattern not fit all the rest like come on


I love my Eureka but their soft screws are driving me crazy...


----------



## Barmoley

Heckel7302 said:


> As a home cook with almost 40 knives, since I try to rotate through them all, I end up using each knife less than once a month for cutting like three things. Sometimes I wish they would dull faster so I can enjoy sharpening them more often.


Here's a solution to your problem https://www.amazon.com/Tempered-Gla...ocphy=9061252&hvtargid=pla-495537185038&psc=1


----------



## blokey

Heckel7302 said:


> As a home cook with almost 40 knives, since I try to rotate through them all, I end up using each knife less than once a month for cutting like three things. Sometimes I wish they would dull faster so I can enjoy sharpening them more often.


More white#2 and a lot of lemons?


----------



## Tea_Hills

tcmx3 said:


> "Am I the only one" should be illegal.
> 
> Firstly, in a world of 8 billion people it's almost impossible you're the only one. Secondly, the person asking always knows this.
> 
> Be honest and phrase it as "please agree with me"


Am I the only one who thinks Please agree with me that rhetorical phrases are okay.


----------



## JASinIL2006

Barmoley said:


> People who say that a knife/steel holds an edge forever have very low standards or don't use the knife.
> 
> I understand that as long as the knife is pretty thin behind the edge it can continue cutting even when dull. I've tried many steels from the best makers and sharpeners and none of them stayed super sharp, as in cutting ripe tomatoes easily or paper towel effortlessly for extremely long. Some steels/knives stay sharp much longer than others, but not for months or years as some claim, not in my use.....



I think you’re being a bit overly literal in your reading of the word “forever.’


----------



## JASinIL2006

spaceconvoy said:


> To make up for the lack of controversy in my last statement:
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks flat-earthers have a point? The earth _is_ flat for the vast majority of people. After all, spacetime is curved, but physicists pretend that 'local flatness' is a legitimate concept. In that sense, the earth is 'locally flat' for most people who aren't flying commercial planes or working with satellites.
> 
> Physicists, a.k.a. 'flat-spacers' are hypocrites.


 They have a point… on top of their heads.


----------



## Barmoley

JASinIL2006 said:


> I think you’re being a bit overly literal in your reading of the word “forever.’


No I am not. I don’t think they literally mean forever, but even the meaning of many month or years must be a hyperbole. Only if the knives are used very rarely or the standard of sharpness is very lax. I wish instead we used hours of use when discussing how long something is sharp, then again without the definition of what sharp is it is all futile, I am just whining.


----------



## BillHanna

Barmoley said:


> I am just whining.


isn’t that what this thread _IS?_


----------



## esoo

White 2 has sucky edge retention as it dulls before I think I should have to sharpen it. Blue 2 has good edge retention as it doesn't get dull before I think I have to sharpen it. VG-10/SG2 suck as I can't get them as sharp as W#2 or B#2 but they never get dull before I think I should sharpen them. 

Dull equals not being able to cut whatever I've got in front of me with my preferred technique. 

My timeline for should sharpen has to do with vague recollections of how often I've used the knife since I last sharpened it.


----------



## Rangen

Bear said:


> Birds aren't real?



Crap. I'm eating robots? Pretty tasty robots, though.


----------



## Heckel7302

Barmoley said:


> Here's a solution to your problem https://www.amazon.com/Tempered-Gla...ocphy=9061252&hvtargid=pla-495537185038&psc=1


I said sharpen, not fix chips…


----------



## McMan

Barmoley said:


> People who say that a knife/steel holds an edge forever have very low standards or don't use the knife.
> 
> I understand that as long as the knife is pretty thin behind the edge it can continue cutting even when dull. I've tried many steels from the best makers and sharpeners and none of them stayed super sharp, as in cutting ripe tomatoes easily or paper towel effortlessly for extremely long. Some steels/knives stay sharp much longer than others, but not for months or years as some claim, not in my use.....


This is a good point. Indeed, perceptions of edge holding are inseparable from perceptions of sharpness.

Edit: "Unpopular Opinions" thread version:
There's no such thing as edge holding. It's all sharpness.


----------



## Wagnum

Unless it's for work you do need more than 3-5 knives and even if you work with knives chances are you still don't... says the guy with like 40


----------



## andrewsa

esoo said:


> White 2 has sucky edge retention as it dulls before I think I should have to sharpen it. Blue 2 has good edge retention as it doesn't get dull before I think I have to sharpen it.


I would agree that W#2 doesn't have as good edge retention as B#2 but it is softer and much more faster and pleasant when I take it to stones which makes the entire process more enjoyable  I look at sharpening my knives like I have to cut my grass. It is what is to maintain things in life.


----------



## Barmoley

McMan said:


> Edit: "Unpopular Opinions" thread version:
> There's no such thing as edge holding. It's all sharpness.


Ooohhh! I like it. It is all just degrees of sharpness on an infinite sharpness curve


----------



## blokey

Barmoley said:


> No I am not. I don’t think they literally mean forever, but even the meaning of many month or years must be a hyperbole. Only if the knives are used very rarely or the standard of sharpness is very lax. I wish instead we used hours of use when discussing how long something is sharp, then again without the definition of what sharp is it is all futile, I am just whining.


I have seen people claim their Shun haven't been sharpen for years and still sharp, probably it microchipped so much it become a serrated blade.


----------



## Delat

esoo said:


> White 2 has sucky edge retention as it dulls before I think I should have to sharpen it. Blue 2 has good edge retention as it doesn't get dull before I think I have to sharpen it. VG-10/SG2 suck as I can't get them as sharp as W#2 or B#2 but they never get dull before I think I should sharpen them.
> 
> Dull equals not being able to cut whatever I've got in front of me with my preferred technique.
> 
> My timeline for should sharpen has to do with vague recollections of how often I've used the knife since I last sharpened it.



Something crazy is going on with my Wakui white 2 nakiri. I’ve used it several times since the last stropping and it’s still sticking into my board. I haven’t sharpened it since I got it, just stropped it the one time. Edge retention so far is really impressive for white 2.


----------



## M1k3

Am I the only one that thinks there's some pretty popular opinions around here?


----------



## blokey

Delat said:


> Something crazy is going on with my Wakui white 2 nakiri. I’ve used it several times since the last stropping and it’s still sticking into my board. I haven’t sharpened it since I got it, just stropped it the one time. Edge retention so far is really impressive for white 2.


He did some magic on his knives, kind regret I didn't buy a 240mm gyuto when CKC had them for $200.


----------



## esoo

Delat said:


> Something crazy is going on with my Wakui white 2 nakiri. I’ve used it several times since the last stropping and it’s still sticking into my board. I haven’t sharpened it since I got it, just stropped it the one time. Edge retention so far is really impressive for white 2.



My quality example of White 2 was a Kono FM. It dulled sooner that I thought it should have and I found it a PITA to get sharp. My FM White 1 nakiri is way easier to deal with (easier to sharpens and keeps it longer)

Never tried a Wakui, but sounds interesting


----------



## McMan

M1k3 said:


> Am I the only one that thinks there's some pretty popular opinions around here?


It's a tough format. 
I always forget to add "What is..." when I'm yelling at reruns of Jeopardy too.


----------



## esoo

M1k3 said:


> Am I the only one that thinks there's some pretty popular opinions around here?



How about this: all knife cladding sucks. Iron rusts too easily compared to the core, and stainless scratches too easily. Monosteel for the win.


----------



## blokey

esoo said:


> How about this: all knife cladding sucks. Iron rusts too easily compared to the core, and stainless scratches too easily. Monosteel for the win.


Until you need to thin the blade.


----------



## Naftoor

Probably already stated somewhere already, but I don’t get the purpose of stainless cladding with carbon cores. You still need to wipe down and potentially oil the most important part of the blade, the edge. The difference between caring for the core, and caring for the core + iron cladding is minimal. 

Either go all stainless, or go all carbon. No shame in either one.


----------



## Barmoley

blokey said:


> I have seen people claim their Shun haven't been sharpen for years and still sharp, probably it microchipped so much it become a serrated blade.


I have experienced this myself. This is why shun and vg10 the way they make it are my favorite knife/steel combinations. Have you heard of self sharpening knives, the more you use them the better they cut? Shun was first, they spoiled me so much that I don't buy vg10 at all now. I just know I'll be disappointed.


----------



## Barmoley

Naftoor said:


> Probably already stated somewhere already, but I don’t get the purpose of stainless cladding with carbon cores. You still need to wipe down and potentially oil the most important part of the blade, the edge. The difference between caring for the core, and caring for the core + iron cladding is minimal.
> 
> Either go all stainless, or go all carbon. No shame in either one.


Iron clading is often more reactive than the core. Much more.


----------



## Naftoor

Barmoley said:


> Iron clading is often more reactive than the core. Much more.




Honestly I’m beginning to think it’s more with the specific iron cladding. My wat and mazaki irons reacted so fast they went orange on their first onion cuts before moving to blue. The mazaki settled down and I would say it’s not much different then caring for the white#2 steel which still feels a bit more reactive than regular mono steels. 

On the other hand I’ve got an iron clad catchie where the core is reacting faster than the cladding. Have another on route so we’ll see if that situation repeats but it’s been weird to see it happen so far. 

Stainless cladding on carbon just feels so soulless to me, nothing against monostainless or stainless clad stainless though. Just seems weird to mix it


----------



## sumis

a good food processor is a far better tool for anything and everything you would ever attempt with a knife.

.


----------



## blokey

sumis said:


> a good food processor is far better for anything and everything you would ever attempt with a knife.
> 
> .


Quartering squashes, remove sliver skin, thin slice roast, sashimi, butchering fowls, cut things into even cubes, cut finger precisely without feeling pain…


----------



## Pisau

sumis said:


> a good food processor is a far better tool for _anything and everything _you would ever attempt with a knife.
> 
> .



Bloody Thais politely smiled when I tried to enter my Kenwood in their fruit carving competition....


----------



## esoo

blokey said:


> Until you need to thin the blade.



Diamonds. CBN. Belt Sander.


----------



## Jovidah

I couldn't care less about being slightly harder to thin; I just prefer the cuttting feedback monosteels give versus clad knives. They just feel better to me.


----------



## ian

spaceconvoy said:


> To make up for the lack of controversy in my last statement:
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks flat-earthers have a point? The earth _is_ flat for the vast majority of people. After all, spacetime is curved, but physicists pretend that 'local flatness' is a legitimate concept. In that sense, the earth is 'locally flat' for most people who aren't flying commercial planes or working with satellites.
> 
> Physicists, a.k.a. 'flat-spacers' are hypocrites.



Love it. Although isn’t “the earth is locally flat” a pretty popular opinion, disputed only by mountain climbers like @valgard?


----------



## captaincaed

I like seeing speculators on BST. Lets me know who to ignore.


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

blokey said:


> Until you need to thin the blade.


Until you have a blade with hard stainless cladding (60-61HRC) and a Rex121 core (67ish HRC). That one will make you hate sharpening and forget about thinning.


----------



## timebard

Naftoor said:


> Honestly I’m beginning to think it’s more with the specific iron cladding. My wat and mazaki irons reacted so fast they went orange on their first onion cuts before moving to blue. The mazaki settled down and I would say it’s not much different then caring for the white#2 steel which still feels a bit more reactive than regular mono steels.
> 
> On the other hand I’ve got an iron clad catchie where the core is reacting faster than the cladding. Have another on route so we’ll see if that situation repeats but it’s been weird to see it happen so far.
> 
> Stainless cladding on carbon just feels so soulless to me, nothing against monostainless or stainless clad stainless though. Just seems weird to mix it



Agree re iron cladding. I tried a couple Mazaki and Munetoshi knives in the past, they reacted like crazy and I said "iron cladding sucks, I'm done." Messed around with monosteels only for a bit. But after a while I got the itch to try a Y Tanaka and a couple others and dipped my toe back in, only to find that knives like my Kono MM are a lot calmer. Now like 4 of the last 5 knives I've picked up are ironclad. So far, all good!


----------



## esoo

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Until you have a blade with hard stainless cladding (60-61HRC) and a Rex121 core (67ish HRC). That one will make you hate sharpening and forget about thinning.



Yeah, but it's REX121. Will you ever really need to thin it?

I know, you will eventually. Send it out to someone with right wet belt sanding setup


----------



## jjlotti

Naftoor said:


> Honestly I’m beginning to think it’s more with the specific iron cladding. My wat and mazaki irons reacted so fast they went orange on their first onion cuts before moving to blue. The mazaki settled down and I would say it’s not much different then caring for the white#2 steel which still feels a bit more reactive than regular mono steels.
> 
> On the other hand I’ve got an iron clad catchie where the core is reacting faster than the cladding. Have another on route so we’ll see if that situation repeats but it’s been weird to see it happen so far.
> 
> Stainless cladding on carbon just feels so soulless to me, nothing against monostainless or stainless clad stainless though. Just seems weird to mix it


"She is nothing but a soulesss one wandering 
Waiting for a soul to fill her"


----------



## Naftoor

jjlotti said:


> "She is nothing but a soulesss one wandering
> Waiting for a soul to fill her"


I shall be using this line on my better half after dinner prep. If I’m sleeping on the kitchen floor with my knives I shall do so with no regrets.


----------



## Pikehaus

A nakiri is just as versatile as a caidao, gyuto, or santoku. I mean, performance-wise it's a short cleaver.


----------



## M1k3

Pikehaus said:


> A nakiri is just as versatile as a caidao, gyuto, or santoku. I mean, performance-wise it's a short cleaver.


Looking forward to your video of you removing silverskin with a Nakiri


----------



## Feiii

jjlotti said:


> "She is nothing but a soulesss one wandering
> Waiting for a soul to fill her"
> View attachment 180194


Which gyuto is that? Looks like it is 240mm+ but might be just a perspective


----------



## jjlotti

Feiii said:


> Which gyuto is that? Looks like it is 240mm+ but might be just a


----------



## blokey

M1k3 said:


> Looking forward to your video of you removing silverskin with a Nakiri


Just get the right nakiri!








Gesshin Ginga 270mm Stainless Wa-Nakiri


Product Description Detailed Specs Measurements The Gesshin Ginga line is a custom line we have produced for us exclusively. These knives are very thin and light and have great fit and finish. The spine and choil are rounded and polished. The steel is a very fine grained stainless steel...




www.japaneseknifeimports.com


----------



## jjlotti

Hitohira Tanaka Kyuzo b1 240 stainless clad... Corners like a 911


----------



## jjlotti

blokey said:


> Just get the right nakiri!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gesshin Ginga 270mm Stainless Wa-Nakiri
> 
> 
> Product Description Detailed Specs Measurements The Gesshin Ginga line is a custom line we have produced for us exclusively. These knives are very thin and light and have great fit and finish. The spine and choil are rounded and polished. The steel is a very fine grained stainless steel...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.japaneseknifeimports.com


And a angle grinder...


----------



## jjlotti

jjlotti said:


> Hitohira Tanaka Kyuzo b1 240 stainless clad... Corners like a 911


Hers a pic when new


----------



## jjlotti

jjlotti said:


> Heres a few pics when new


----------



## spaceconvoy

lord forbid a massdrop knife not conform to the most average forum preferences... another 225-250 carbon gyuto with distal taper and a wa handle, shocking!


----------



## Feiii

Extreme beauty! Does it perform as well as it looks? What is the height on it?


----------



## ethompson

The best handles are really high quality ho. The only reason I use anything else is I don’t love a super forward balance point and on bigger knives sometimes you need something to shift the balance back.

Even hotter take - a good D is better than octagonal


----------



## Tea_Hills

All new sharpeners should start with a jig.

The kitchen knife world needs a Spyderco type maker with fairly standard products, decent fit and finish, and a slew of different knife steels instead of many makers all using the same tried and true 5 - 10 knife steels.


----------



## Jovidah

I think a jig is a horrible idea for 'new sharpeners'. It's a significant investment that creates a far higher bar to entry, and would be a waste for the many who will eventually conclude that it's 'not for them'. Then there's the long list of issues related to jigs.

I really don't see the point in having the same knife in 10 different flavors either; in the end the knife steel isn't all that superduper important for performance, especially for 'the masses'.
What makes more sense is a knife that ticks all the actually useful boxes, like proper grind, good geometry, and if possible quality of life stuff like rounded spine and choil, at a pricepoint acceptable to normal people. Ideally in Europe...


----------



## Naftoor

I’m not sure I would say a jig, but a set of angle blocks is an excellent thing for new people. 

I learned freehand by approximating angles, and using one of those heavy digital angle cubes (don’t recommend) and my edges have always been more then serviceable. Push cut, shaving all good. 

Recently I picked up a set of angle blocks intended to stick near the stone to use as a reference during sharpening, and for 20 bucks they’ve definitely upped my sharpening game since it helps me learn the muscle memory for an exact angle. The knives do the same stuff, but the edges feel a little better at the above tests now. 

I also focused more on learning to deburr at the same time so maybe that’s the real cause though


----------



## Tea_Hills

I mean like a 30 dollar jig. Sharpening is 2 main components rifht


Jovidah said:


> I think a jig is a horrible idea for 'new sharpeners'. It's a significant investment that creates a far higher bar to entry, and would be a waste for the many who will eventually conclude that it's 'not for them'. Then there's the long list of issues related to jigs.
> 
> I really don't see the point in having the same knife in 10 different flavors either; in the end the knife steel isn't all that superduper important for performance, especially for 'the masses'.
> What makes more sense is a knife that ticks all the actually useful boxes, like proper grind, good geometry, and if possible quality of life stuff like rounded spine and choil, at a pricepoint acceptable to normal people. Ideally in Europe...


Nah I'm talking about a 30 dollar jig like a hapstone t1 not a whole system. It allows a newbie to focus on pressure and procedure rather than holding an angle perfectly. It also is a great way to get a visual feel for what say 15 degrees looks like. There is never the question "Did I wobble like hell or did I deburr incorrectly". And chances are a new sharper will be able to get shave sharp on their first try and avoid some discouragement. King 1000 and cheap jig and you got yourself a sharper knife than you will ever need in the kitchen. Once you have the knowledge of what process to follow to sharpen then you can build your skill if you want to.

And sure there are a lot of other things that go into a great knife but I feel that steel choice is still fairly underrepresented in knives under 500 dollars when compared to ginds, finish, geometry. Would be nice to have more steels more accessible.


----------



## pleue

I think every new sharpener should get a chosera 400 or a shapton glass 500 or something along those lines and learn bevel setting, pressure, and getting a good sharp knife from a coarse stone before getting lost in polishing a bad edge or relying on a jig and getting a super wonky tip because of it.


----------



## Jovidah

You can just fold a piece of paper to get a 15 degree angle... just use that to sort of get a feel for the angle and boom you're done.
I don't think angle guides are all that helpful though. The angle guides are problematic on any knives that actually have any curve to them (they won't give the same angle at every spot of the knife).
People also really shouldn't be focusing on getting exactly X degrees... it's putting emphasis on the wrong aspect IMO. 

As to steels... it's again putting emphasis on the least relevant aspect IMO. Different steel won't make a knife cut any different. Part of the reason you see a limited amount of steels is that 'the market' (including us) chooses to focus on a limited amount of makers from a very limited geographic origin. 
And on top of that most people insist on limiting themselves to these few 'known' steels. It's a bit of a chicken & egg problem.


----------



## tostadas

Of those that are very picky about knife weights +/- 10 or 15g, I wonder how many have seen how much variance exists in the thickness/length of the blade tangs hidden inside of their WA handles.


----------



## MowgFace

tostadas said:


> Of those that are very picky about knife weights +/- 10 or 15g, I wonder how many have seen how much variance exists in the thickness/length of the blade tangs hidden inside of their WA handles.



I have noticed many knives that are obvious western conversions. VERY short inconsistent tangs, with the rivet holes still present.

Just rehandled a Gesshin Ginga and that bad boy had a tang that was close to 75% of the entire handle length. TWICE as long as the knives that were western tang conversions.


----------



## M1k3

tostadas said:


> Of those that are very picky about knife weights +/- 10 or 15g, I wonder how many have seen how much variance exists in the thickness/length of the blade tangs hidden inside of their WA handles.


Or those that act like "52mm?? How could I even use that!??!!?! Gah. Duh! 55.6mm+ tall or die inside!!"


----------



## blokey

M1k3 said:


> Or those that act like "52mm?? How could I even use that!??!!?! Gah. Duh! 55.6mm+ tall or die inside!!"


That’s how we got Serbian cleaver.


----------



## M1k3

blokey said:


> That’s how we got Serbian cleaver.


@Isasmedjan


----------



## Jovidah

In general I don't really understand the tall preference to be honest. 48-50mm is pretty much my sweetspot for a 240 but beyond that it just starts getting in the way. If you want something tall just consider yourself lucky, spend 50 bucks on some Chinese cleaver and be happily ever after!


----------



## Tea_Hills

Jovidah said:


> In general I don't really understand the tall preference to be honest



I hate it when my claw knuckle hits the top of a shorter Gyuto.


----------



## Naftoor

I like my knives as tall as possible. A combination of fat, sausage fingers, and looking at 60 or 70mm over 50 and going “yup, that’s a few more years of sharpening.” I call it a knife poverty mind set. I worry constantly about using up sharpening stones, and sharpening my knives away even though I have no issues either using the knives, or sharpening them. As such as stock pile stones and seek out tall knive, to make sure I can be neurotic for years to come. Although with the edge retention of harder steels, quite frankly a single 50mm knife would probably last me the rest of my life.

Plus I like super thick spines, and more height gives the maker space to play with the geometry a little bit more in my opinion.


----------



## stringer

Wa handles suck. Knives shouldn't have necks.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

stringer said:


> Wa handles suck. Knives shouldn't have necks.



But... But... You use a knife with no handle!


----------



## Tea_Hills

stringer said:


> Wa handles suck. Knives shouldn't have necks.



Now that is an opinion. Just a bad one


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Tea_Hills said:


> Now that is an opinion. Just a bad one



Well, so is asserting new sharpeners should use highly restrictive jig units but hey, see the thread title right?


----------



## Tea_Hills

I propose that all new sharpeners should use a jig to grind out a neckless knife with a western handle from Rex121 with a king 1000. To learn of course


----------



## blokey

That reminds me, Machi gap serves absolutely no purpose aside from wiping the blade dry extra annoying.


----------



## Tea_Hills

Big true, also looks like ass.


----------



## esoo

Yo handled knives generally suck as they all balance too far back.


----------



## stringer

esoo said:


> Yo handled knives generally suck as they all balance too far back.



If the balance is too far back then the knife isn't long enough.


----------



## tostadas

esoo said:


> Yo handled knives generally suck as they all balance too far back.





stringer said:


> If the balance is too far back then the knife isn't long enough.


Or tang isn't tapered enough


----------



## blokey

I do find myself wanting to try the 240 Ryusen Blazen Yo handle, the only one I have now is the red handle Takamura which have surprisingly good balance but falls short in other areas.


----------



## M1k3

Machi serves a purpose. Food storage and towel ripping.


----------



## esoo

stringer said:


> If the balance is too far back then the knife isn't long enough.


Admittedly, I haven't tried a 300 yo handle yet....


----------



## BillHanna

stringer said:


> Wa handles suck. Knives shouldn't have necks.


Buy more cleavers.


----------



## Barmoley

stringer said:


> Wa handles suck. Knives shouldn't have necks.


Actually, this is an interesting point, why does a knife need a neck? Plenty of western handled knives without necks are comfortable and balance fine. Western handle doesn't have to be full tang construction so doesn't have to be heavier than WA, technically speaking. Are necks on Japanese knives a result of handle construction that is somewhat unique to Japanese knives?


----------



## stringer

esoo said:


> Admittedly, I haven't tried a 300 yo handle yet....


YOLO, with all due respect, what are you waiting for?


HumbleHomeCook said:


> But... But... You use a knife with no handle!


No handle so no neck. My fingers get cramped and pinched between the choil and the top of a wa handle. Maybe a wa handle would be okay if it didn't have a neck and a tapered integral steel bolster instead of a round horn ferrule.


BillHanna said:


> Buy more cleavers.


Honestly, why do wa handles have to have necks? Neckless cleavers are much much more comfy than a typical wa.


Barmoley said:


> Actually, this is an interesting point, why does a knife need a neck? Plenty of western handled knives without necks are comfortable and balance fine. Western handle doesn't have to be full tang construction so doesn't have to be heavier than WA, technically speaking. Are necks on Japanese knives a result of handle construction that is somewhat unique to Japanese knives?


My point exactly


----------



## Jville

stringer said:


> YOLO, with all due respect, what are you waiting for?
> 
> No handle so no neck. My fingers get cramped and pinched between the choil and the top of a wa handle. Maybe a wa handle would be okay if it didn't have a neck and a tapered integral steel bolster instead of a round horn ferrule.
> 
> Honestly, why do wa handles have to have necks? Neckless cleavers are much much more comfy than a typical wa.
> 
> My point exactly


When it comes to gyutos, I have found that I strongly prefer when the neck and handle is somewhat seemless. When the neck width, is basically the same height as the handle. My Tansu honyaki is very good at this. It’s probably the first knife that I experienced this type of construction, and I have loved that style ever since. For a Japanese version, the migoto white 1 also do this. Maybe not quit as seemless as my Tansu, but it is done pretty well. Both wa handles.


----------



## Barmoley

Jville said:


> When it comes to gyutos, I have found that I strongly prefer when the neck and handle is somewhat seemless. When the neck width, is basically the same height as the handle. My Tansu honyaki is very good at this. It’s probably the first knife that I experienced this type of construction, and I have loved that style ever since. For a Japanese version, the migoto white 1 also do this. Maybe not quit as seemless as my Tansu, but it is done pretty well. Both wa handles.


I was also going to say this, which in turn supports @stringer ’s point. When handle and neck are of the same height in a way this just makes the neck part of the handle, it’s just a handle that tapers toward the choil in a very dramatic way.


----------



## Jovidah

Congratulations on discovering the valid reason for machis.


----------



## MowgFace

Barmoley said:


> I was also going to say this, which in turn supports @stringer ’s point...



Starting to sound like a popular opinion to me. Though, I do disagree.


----------



## Pikehaus

M1k3 said:


> Looking forward to your video of you removing silverskin with a Nakiri


Sadly, "nakiri" was thrown away years ago. It was technically a Caidao, but it was 70mm tall. The family used that knife for everything.


----------



## LostHighway

Barmoley said:


> I was also going to say this, which in turn supports @stringer ’s point. When handle and neck are of the same height in a way this just makes the neck part of the handle, it’s just a handle that tapers toward the choil in a very dramatic way.


It also puts the top of the handle in the same plane as the spine (or very nearly so) which IMO makes the knife balance better.


----------



## Jovidah

So... we want more machi? Just less gap!


----------



## Michi

Jovidah said:


> So... we want more machi? Just less gap!


Stop the steel!


----------



## M1k3

Michi said:


> Stop the steel!


Start the steel!


----------



## JASinIL2006

My proposal for the next massdrop: wa handled Serbian cleaver in VG10 with a machi gap. (Handle will be easily removable for @stringer ).


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

massdrops are overrated


----------



## Jville

Jovidah said:


> So... we want more machi? Just less gap!


If we let you talk long enough, you would prove our point. For it to be machi , there must be a gap. So we want no machi, no gapi . Also machi doesn’t necessarily provide the flushness with the handle, nor is it necessary to provide flushness with the handle. It just provides a gap. No machi, no gapi.


----------



## Jovidah

Eh semantics schemantics. You're probably right that machi refers to the 'gap'. But in general the point still stands; if you insist on having a wa handle you can choose between either having the spine be offset from the top of the handle, or having some kind of 'step' in the tang to make it flush. Whether there's a machi gap or it's hammered in all the way isn't much of a difference from a knifemaking perspective.
For some reason even if the tang is stepped it's still not flush most of the time because... I don't know why. It doesn't seem to be a cost issue either? Expensive fancypants knives still tend to have an offset spine, whereas one of the cheapest wa-handle knives I've handled was the onethat was closest to being flush; a Sukenari Gin3 gyuto.
Personally I'd prefer them all to be flush. Even if that means technically losing some blade height.


----------



## esoo

The neck of the knife is the emoto (afaik). The machi is there for historical reasons - on a burned in handle, if it got loose, you could tap it in further. In today's hot glue knives, it is 100% not needed.

Depending on your grip, the step from handle to neck actually makes the knife effectively taller.


----------



## bahamaroot

There are definitely some very picky hard to please MF's around here. Talk to your doctor about some OCD meds....


----------



## Jville

bahamaroot said:


> There are definitely some very picky hard to please MF's around here. Talk to your doctor about some OCD meds....


Not sure if you are referring to me. But I still will buy a knife with machi and the handle doesn’t need to be flush with the neck. But since it came up, just figure I’d mention that preference. I’m not really that OCD.


----------



## Jovidah

I think 'hard to please' kinda comes with the territory of 'niche forums dedicated to 10x more expensive than average versions of regular everyday tools'. If someone was easy to please I don't think they'd be foolish enough to stick around here...


----------



## Barmoley

Jovidah said:


> I think 'hard to please' kinda comes with the territory of 'niche forums dedicated to 10x more expensive than average versions of regular everyday tools'. If someone was easy to please I don't think they'd be foolish enough to stick around here...


Exactly, if you are not OCD or rather hard to please you won't be here. @bahamaroot you just need to realize you must be OCD about some other aspect of this hobby and not the handle or machi gap specifically.


----------



## sansho

only hicks use "#" as a symbol for the pound (mass)


----------



## henkle

Late to the game - No one needs a >$200 USD knife.


----------



## Pikehaus

Well... technically no one needs a knife...


----------



## Hockey3081

Mochi > machi


----------



## captaincaed

The"like" button should be disabled on this thread.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook




----------



## M1k3

Hockey3081 said:


> Mochi > machi


----------



## McMan

captaincaed said:


> The"like" button should be disabled on this thread.


I've said it before... I think there should also be a vomit emoji in addition to the variety of 'like' emojis.
Mods?


----------



## captaincaed

McMan said:


> I've said it before... I think there should also be a vomit emoji in addition to the variety of 'like' emojis.
> Mods?


 it would make the forum more colorful!


----------



## ian

Jville said:


> If we let you talk long enough, you would prove our point. For it to be machi , there must be a gap. So we want no machi, no gapi . Also machi doesn’t necessarily provide the flushness with the handle, nor is it necessary to provide flushness with the handle. It just provides a gap. No machi, no gapi.





Jovidah said:


> You're probably right that machi refers to the 'gap'.



He is not right.


----------



## Jville

ian said:


> He is not right.


How am I wrong?


----------



## Heckel7302

Jville said:


> How am I wrong?


All knives have a machi. Only some knives have a machi gap. The machi is the shoulder, not the gap.


----------



## MowgFace

Not all knives have a Machi.

Regular Kochi for example. The emoto is just the exposed portion of the tang.


----------



## Heckel7302

MowgFace said:


> Not all knives have a Machi.
> 
> Regular Kochi for example. The emoto is just the exposed portion of the tang.


Fair. I suppose I was over generalizing.


----------



## MowgFace

I do agree though. The gap does not make the Machi.


----------



## M1k3

McMan said:


> I've said it before... I think there should also be a vomit emoji in addition to the variety of 'like' emojis.
> Mods?


----------



## MowgFace

For further example of “KnifeNoMachi”


----------



## ian

Jville said:


> How am I wrong?



I guess some people do equate the machi with the gap. Maybe this is common with some Japanese vendors, since with traditional Japanese knives one main reason to have machi (the step) is to be able to reinstall the handle via a burn-in multiple times, so naturally those come with a gap. Imo it’s more useful to say that the machi is the step from the neck to the tang (if present), though, since otherwise I don’t know a name for it, and it’s an important feature of a knife. Here’s also a link supporting that view.









Kochi 240mm Kurouchi Wa-Gyuto with Machi


Product Description Detailed Specs Measurements The Kochi line is exclusive to Japanese Knife Imports. We had some made with a machi, whereas knives from Sanjo usually do not feature this. Having a machi helps align the spine of the blade with the top of the handle (closer than what could be...




www.japaneseknifeimports.com





But yea, I guess ZKnives agrees with your definition too, so I was too quick to call your post “not right”. Apparently the term is used differently by different people.


----------



## parbaked

Machi is the step in the tang, not the gap. Lots of knives have machi installed flush with no gap.
If you can have a machi without a gap, then machi can’t mean the gap.


----------



## captaincaed

The gap is the short between the earphones


----------



## bahamaroot

parbaked said:


> Machi is the step in the tang, not the gap. Lots of knives have machi installed flush with no gap.
> If you can have a machi without a gap, then machi can’t mean the gap.


Says you, others say different.


----------



## Heckel7302

bahamaroot said:


> Says you, others say different.


I’d say that is an unpopular opinion, so you picked the right thread to rekindle the debate.


----------



## blokey

Deep enough hammer pattern does help food release but most of them are ugly as sin.


----------



## M1k3

Machine Gun Kelly is the male version of Paramore.


----------



## labor of love

blokey said:


> Deep enough hammer pattern does help food release but most of them are ugly as sin.


I’ll just go a step further…I’d love to try more stuff from the Echizen knife village but 95% of the time the weird patterns are ugly flashy and gimmicky. The other 5% are permanently out of stock


----------



## mengwong

I have an unpopular opinion to share …

After keeping a set of stones in the car and offering to sharpen when we visit friends (their knives get sharp, I get to practice), my tentative finding is this:

“A sharp knife is a safe knife” turns out to be an unpopular opinion.

Because most domestic cooks handle their knives in such a way that properly sharp knives will actually injure them within the first week of sharpening.

So, most people prefer their knives dull, and if I’m going to sharpen their knives without also teaching them – and everyone who uses their knives – proper knife skills, I’m actually not doing them any favours.

And people who might say “yes” out of politeness don’t actually want to change the way they operate, so it’s better not to offer at all!

Change my mind?


----------



## KingShapton

mengwong said:


> Because most domestic cooks handle their knives in such a way that properly sharp knives will actually injure them within the first week of sharpening.


Plain and simple because they are used to blunt knives. And from getting used to it comes the wrong way of dealing with it.





mengwong said:


> So, most people prefer their knives dull, and if I’m going to sharpen their knives without also teaching them – and everyone who uses their knives – proper knife skills, I’m actually not doing them any favours.


I wouldn't say most people prefer dull knives - most people are just used to dull knives and how to use them.

Most of the time, these are people who rarely buy a new knife. And even if you buy a new knife every now and then, it doesn't take long to dull a new, sharp knife. Especially if you have little idea how to use a knife properly.

And you have to keep in mind that most "normal" people have a different understanding of sharp knives than we do here in the forum.... So they first have to learn what a sharp knife really is and how to use it without injuring themself. And also how to handle a sharp knife sensibly so that it doesn't immediately become blunt again.

And once they have learned that, they no longer want to work with blunt knives.

As with many things, there is a learning curve.

I saw exactly this learning curve in my wife's family when I started sharpening their knives.

It was almost funny at times because I could predict things blindly...despite my warnings.

Of course, every now and then there is a "learning-resistant" case - if we stick to the example of my wife's family, then it's her mother's new husband. This is the kind of case where every effort is futile, he doesn't want to change or learn anything, but that's true for his whole life. That's when I really gave up, it was pointless and a waste of time. I ended up buying him a pack of plasters...


----------



## sansho

the tesla logo looks like the female reproductive system. i've thought this since the very first time i saw the logo.
edit: i guess i'm not the only one


tesla logo female reproductive - Google Search


----------



## captaincaed




----------



## Naftoor

sansho said:


> the tesla logo looks like the female reproductive system.




That does explain something about musk attempting to single handedly repopulate the earth…


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

captaincaed said:


> View attachment 183658



Ah. Amber Heard.


----------



## Aidan

Salvador Dali painted this


----------



## Knivperson

People gotta relax with the Jiro knives.


----------



## Campbell

Knivperson said:


> People gotta relax with the Jiro knives.


The hype is real.


----------



## Knivperson

Campbell said:


> The hype is real.


A friend of mine has got 7 jiros over the last 3 months....


----------



## M1k3

Knivperson said:


> A friend of mine has got 7 jiros over the last 3 months....


But does he know how to sharpen?


----------



## Campbell

Knivperson said:


> A friend of mine has got 7 jiros over the last 3 months....


 Wow! So that's where they are all going!


----------



## Naftoor

Knivperson said:


> A friend of mine has got 7 jiros over the last 3 months....


Can you ask him what his secret is so I can land a raquin at long last?


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> But does he know how to sharpen?


He's got until Aug/Sept.


----------



## stringer

Knivperson said:


> A friend of mine has got 7 jiros over the last 3 months....


How do they cut?


----------



## esoo

I owned a Jiro for 20 minutes, until I realized I didn't need a 300g 225mm. Ai & Om handled the return before shipping excellently.


----------



## Campbell

Naftoor said:


> Can you ask him what his secret is so I can land a raquin at long last?



Persistence


----------



## Campbell

stringer said:


> How do they cut?


#285 cut beautifully.


----------



## Naftoor

Campbell said:


> Persistence



Good god, that’s impressive! Even more so for how infrequent the drops are and how they sell out in 5 minutes 

Curious if anyone in the community has built a bot for acquiring grails. I don’t really enjoy the process of chasing them down, but that may be hovering close to an unpopular opinion in and of itself


----------



## M1k3

The only good bot is named Mazaki.


----------



## M1k3

215mm X 60mm?

Why not just get a cleaver?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> 215mm X 60mm?
> 
> Why not just get a cleaver?



It's like a mini Serby!

Ko Serby?


----------



## M1k3

Am I the only one that thinks the next best thing should be a Ko Sir.B Ian Cleaver.


----------



## Aidan

Deleted


----------



## tostadas

M1k3 said:


> 215mm X 60mm?
> 
> Why not just get a cleaver?


When you already got enough different cleavers to cover even the niche tasks, and a couple spares for "guest cleavers", need to come up with creative needs to keep buying

But good suggestion to get another cleaver... Will have to take that into consideration


----------



## Knivperson

Naftoor said:


> Can you ask him what his secret is so I can land a raquin at long last?


Money?


----------



## Knivperson

tostadas said:


> When you already got enough different cleavers to cover even the niche tasks, and a couple spares for "guest cleavers", need to come up with creative needs to keep buying
> 
> But good suggestion to get another cleaver... Will have to take that into consideration


"guest cleavers"


----------



## Knivperson

stringer said:


> How do they cut?


They cut like **** man. But they look pretty.

Kidding, he only had a suji when i saw him. It cut well but I only tried it on some carrot. And just the tip, as you say.


----------



## Knivperson

tostadas said:


> When you already got enough different cleavers to cover even the niche tasks, and a couple spares for "guest cleavers", need to come up with creative needs to keep buying
> 
> But good suggestion to get another cleaver... Will have to take that into consideration


Would be bad ass to have a guest ashi honyaki.


----------



## M1k3

tostadas said:


> When you already got enough different cleavers to cover even the niche tasks, and a couple spares for "guest cleavers", need to come up with creative needs to keep buying
> 
> But good suggestion to get another cleaver... Will have to take that into consideration











Verawood Shibuichi Cleaver 185mm | Eatingtools.com


Bladesmith Nick Anderson delivers a Chinese Cleaver in magnificent style, pairing verawood, shibuichi & fine silver for a stunning handle on a forged blade.




www.eatingtools.com


----------



## tostadas

M1k3 said:


> Verawood Shibuichi Cleaver 185mm | Eatingtools.com
> 
> 
> Bladesmith Nick Anderson delivers a Chinese Cleaver in magnificent style, pairing verawood, shibuichi & fine silver for a stunning handle on a forged blade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eatingtools.com


Perfect! I'm going to pass on that one, and now I'm suddenly up $3k that can go toward my next purchase!


----------



## PeopleoftheSun

tostadas said:


> Perfect! I'm going to pass on that one, and now I'm suddenly up $3k that can go toward my next purchase!


Now _that’s_ my kinda math! 

I have a coworker who’s husband is a fan of the justification “Well I _could_ be sitting on the curb under a bridge shooting up, you know… so I’m really not doing _that_ bad”


----------



## stringer

Oxo sucks. The Good Grips handles are too fat and mushy. I prefer forward balanced utensils with simple wooden or steel handles that don't try to jump out of saute pans onto the floor.


----------



## Jovidah

I really like their measuring cups though (the ones you can readout from above).


----------



## M1k3




----------



## MSicardCutlery

Basically anything George Carlin ever said, in the eyes of those people who were the objects of his humor.


----------



## Knivperson

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 186083


Somehow in the same line


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Just as the humble iceberg is the king of lettuce, the simple Saltine is the king of crackers.


----------



## jwthaparc

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Just as the humble iceberg is the king of lettuce, the simple Saltine is the king of crackers.


All crackers except ritz are trash. 

Deal with it.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

jwthaparc said:


> All crackers except ritz are trash.
> 
> Deal with it.



Ritz are just round buttery Saltines.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

A nakiri is just a circumcised gyuto.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

MSicardCutlery said:


> A nakiri is just a circumcised gyuto.



Reckon them French folks had the whole culinary thing mostly figured out after all.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Reckon them French folks had the whole culinary thing mostly figured out after all.


Aha! So there's the connection.


----------



## M1k3

A Nakiri is just a grinder away from being a petty.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

Or one well angled chip from being a bunka


----------



## captaincaed

Mike's gyuto is just one coworker away from being a SANTOKU 

I'll see myself out.


----------



## Naftoor

Also lettuce is a nearly pointless vegetable. Little flavor beyond the vinaigrette or dressing it carries. I’ve never met a burger improved by its presence. Baby spinach, arugula and other bitter greens are better options for salad bulk, more interesting flavors.

I concede it may serve a purpose in lettuce wraps.


----------



## Greasylake

Naftoor said:


> Also lettuce is a nearly pointless vegetable. Little flavor beyond the vinaigrette or dressing it carries. I’ve never met a burger improved by its presence. Baby spinach, arugula and other bitter greens are better options for salad bulk, more interesting flavors.
> 
> I concede it may serve a purpose in lettuce wraps.


Lettuce exists only for texture, otherwise it tastes like nothing and generally is unpleasant


----------



## PeopleoftheSun

Lettuce is the tortilla chip of the vegetable world. It’s there to carry delicious other flavors to your mouth and add a little crunch.


----------



## jwthaparc

Greasylake said:


> Lettuce exists only for texture, otherwise it tastes like nothing and generally is unpleasant


Honestly I find it doesn't even do that in a way that makes up for all of the flavor it takes away with its wateryness. You could have a bunch of layered flavors coming from everything else in the burger. Then you have just a piece/shredded bits of iceberg lettuce watering down the rest of it. 

It's like pouring ice water into a soda to cool it down, rather than chilling it in the fridge. 

I think it's about time we come together as a society, and find better alternatives to this hydrated crutch of crunch. Whether it be those fried onions you find on green bean casseroles, or something else. I think we can do better. 

Who's with me!?


----------



## Michi

jwthaparc said:


> Who's with me!?


Ahem… No-one?


----------



## Jovidah

I am actually. Lettuce is just crispy water... even its nutritional value is negligible. Would use spinach over lettuce in salad any day of the week.


----------



## Michi

Jovidah said:


> I am actually.


Spoilsport!


----------



## M1k3

Am I the only one that thinks Arugula, and Butter Lettuce when making lettuce wraps, are the only legitimate lettuce?


----------



## Knivperson

An ashi honyaki is just a flap disc away from being a knitting needle.


----------



## cooktocut

MSicardCutlery said:


> Basically anything George Carlin ever said, in the eyes of those people who were the objects of his humor.


I just watched his HBO special, or at least the first part. The balls he had to stand up on stage and say the things he said, during the times he said them... what a legend.


----------



## Delat

M1k3 said:


> Am I the only one that thinks Arugula, and Butter Lettuce when making lettuce wraps, are the only legitimate lettuce?



I challenge your premise that lettuce wraps are even legitimate. Lettuce wraps are stupid. You want me to wrap that hot delicious meat filling in a cold, wet, tasteless, watery leaf so it loses half the flavor?

I always just eat the stuffing and leave the lettuce. 

[But I actually like arugula so if you’re going to use arugula just mix it into the darn filling and call it a salad so I can use a fork.]


----------



## Delat

All the pans I see used in cooking videos are way too small and overcrowded. 

Seriously, everybody is very delicately and slowly pushing ingredients around because they’re worried stuff will fly out the side of the pan because it’s way too small. Would it kill you to use a bigger pan with a higher edge so you can stir more vigorously? 

I saw a Bingeing with Babbish where he realized his pan was too small and swapped it for a marginally bigger one, then realized that one was also too small and swapped it again. Like, are you that terrified of washing the bigger pans that you hate to use them?


----------



## MSicardCutlery

cooktocut said:


> I just watched his HBO special, or at least the first part. The balls he had to stand up on stage and say the things he said, during the times he said them... what a legend.


I've seen all of his specials, the guy was brilliant. If you get a chance, check out his National Press Club speech, it was magnificent.


----------



## Lizzybee55

jwthaparc said:


> All crackers except ritz are trash.
> 
> Deal with it.


Oh yes. That’s a Fact. Thank you-


----------



## McMan

Anyone else notice how different Ritz crackers are now from not long ago?--crumbly, not buttery, and even the color's different (now pale and yellow with no orange). 
File Ritz under "things that used to be good".


----------



## MSicardCutlery

The ratio of substance to air is currently higher in a bag of Doritos than North American politics...


----------



## jwthaparc

MSicardCutlery said:


> The ratio of substance to air is currently higher in a bag of Doritos than North American politics...


Slander!


----------



## MSicardCutlery

jwthaparc said:


> Slander!


Lays?


----------



## jjlotti

Butter lettuce is like that unattainable girl from your youth.....


----------



## Luftmensch




----------



## Michi

Luftmensch said:


> View attachment 186681


Yeah. I dunno what to do wid one o dem dang things either.


----------



## jjlotti

Michi said:


> Yeah. I dunno what to do wid one o dem dang things either.


Correct response lol! I would've suggested pasta alla Norma, just make sure dem dang things are salted for at least 2 hours first or salt petered depending on the guests invited


----------



## Luftmensch

Kids these days seem pretty into healthy eating.... ???

... maybe they just like nasu dengaku??


----------



## stringer

McMan said:


> Anyone else notice how different Ritz crackers are now from not long ago?--crumbly, not buttery, and even the color's different (now pale and yellow with no orange).
> File Ritz under "things that used to be good".


I do agree. My guess is they might be trying to gradually get rid of transfats. Partially hydrogenated cottonseed oil is still listed as an ingredient so they haven't eliminated it completely. But they have definitely had to change their recipe when the trans fat "ban" went into place (in 2018 I think?). And if I had to guess I would say they are probably trying to eventually transition to a 100% non trans fat recipe. The old full trans fat version had more flavor, was crunchier/less crumbly, and had a longer shelf life after opening before going stale. Those are all qualities easier to achieve with a bunch of transfat. Ritz can't sell them with transfats much of anywhere in the world except most of the US. Here the current FDA "ban" has a loophole where if your product has less than .5 grams of transfats per serving then you can claim that it has zero. But Ritz probably wouldn't mind being in other markets. And the US market is shrinking as more states and localities are moving toward a stricter ban than the current FDA regulation. Companies will often try and do things like reduce salt, fat, or sugar gradually so that customers are less likely to notice and backlash. But I do remember back in the day that a Ritz cracker was sturdy enough to handle smoked whitefish dip or pimento spread without crumbling into nothing. Probably going to create a black market of people cooking Oreos and Twinkies and Ritz in their basements with vegetable oil that they hydrogenate themselves in clandestine laboratories.


----------



## Jovidah

They could just make a proper version with butter for those of us who like to actually enjoy our food.... have the vegan fundamentalists chew on the bland tropical oil blend version...
Over here a lot of the cookies are made with crap oils these days but the motive is usually a financial one; it's simply a lot cheaper than making stuff with proper butter.


----------



## jjlotti

As far as the flavor Nabisco errrrrr kraft/PM errrrrr modelez have moved most of the traditional plant locations to Mexico.....nothing smells better than driving past a plant cranking them out. So much better than they ever tasted


----------



## M1k3

You're coworker saying they just burnt themself is NOT an invitation to start showing off your old burn scars.

It *IS* an invitation to help fix them up.


----------



## BillHanna

I don’t know. It sound like a PERFECT time to talk about me and my mistakes.


----------



## M1k3

Well yes. While you help them out though. Right? Right?!?!


----------



## coxhaus

When it comes to BLT sandwiches there is no substitute to cold iceberg lettuce in my opinion. And of course, home grown tomatoes.


----------



## Jovidah

I bet BLT sandwiches were just something that was invented by someone who didn't have cheese to put alongside his bacon and just improvised a poor man's substitute...


----------



## stringer

coxhaus said:


> When it comes to BLT sandwiches there is no substitute to cold iceberg lettuce in my opinion. And of course, home grown tomatoes.


Iceberg? Yuck. Green leaf lettuce, romaine, arugula, anything but iceberg. Iceberg is only allowed in 2 circumstances: Cobb salad or Wedge salad. And even then I would probably go baby iceberg.


----------



## tostadas

Jovidah said:


> I bet BLT sandwiches were just something that was invented by someone who didn't have cheese to put alongside his bacon and just improvised a poor man's substitute...


BLT = When you want to make a real sandwich, but only have the toppings


----------



## Bico Doce

tostadas said:


> BLT = When you want to make a real sandwich, but only have the toppings


Then you might not be doing right


----------



## M1k3

tostadas said:


> BLT = When you want to make a real sandwich, but only have the toppings


I'll have a Club sandwich, minus onion and turkey.


----------



## BillHanna

Iceberg is to lettuce as Serbian cleavers are to cleavers.


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> Iceberg is to lettuce as Serbian cleavers are to cleavers.


Oxymoron?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> I'll have a Club sandwich, minus onion and turkey.



But you didn't say hold the lettuuuuucccce!


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Oxymoron?


----------



## BillHanna

HumbleHomeCook said:


> But you didn't say hold the lettuuuuucccce!


That’s because it ended up in the compost. Iceberg’s true value.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> That’s because it ended up in the compost. Iceberg’s true value.



I remain unshaken.


----------



## esoo

BillHanna said:


> That’s because it ended up in the compost. Iceberg’s true value.



Iceberg has more value than kale.


----------



## BillHanna

esoo said:


> Iceberg has more value than kale.


Ehhhhhhhh. You hide the cookies under the bag of kale chips. Can’t do that with a head of lettuce.


----------



## M1k3

esoo said:


> Iceberg has more value than kale.


Yeah, to catch the Kale you throw in the trashcan.


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> But you didn't say hold the lettuuuuucccce!


I'll hold it. While I walk to the trashcan.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> I'll hold it. While I walk to the trashcan.



Dedicated to the lettuce in your hand...


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Well played @M1k3. Well played.


----------



## Naftoor

BillHanna said:


> Iceberg is to lettuce as Serbian cleavers are to cleavers.




Isasmedjan is starting a iceberg lettuce farm? Don’t know how he finds the time with all those cleavers. I’M IN!


----------



## sumis

iceberg = sweet, bitter, crunchy = good and underrated stuff.

.


----------



## Wagnum

I actually like the triangle Mazakis more than the pre-triangle


----------



## Greasylake

We domesticated the most boring fruits


----------



## BillHanna

Greasylake said:


> We domesticated the most boring fruits


Tell me more. Truly. What should I be looking for?


----------



## Greasylake

BillHanna said:


> Tell me more. Truly. What should I be looking for?


Ice cream beans, peanut butter fruit, kiwano, lablab beans, the large variety of strawberries and melons out in the world. I guess my complaint isn't that we domesticated boring fruits but the largely commercialized ones aren't all that fun. Pawpaw trees are even native to the U.S. but most people have never heard of them


----------



## BillHanna

Being a Pennsylvanian, pawpaw is what I was thinking of when you brought this up.


----------



## M1k3

Pew pew is lame imitation of a gun.

You just sound stupid. 

Look even stupider using an "air hand/finger gun".


----------



## Delat

M1k3 said:


> I'll have a Club sandwich, minus onion and turkey.



Hold the chicken.


----------



## BillHanna

Flippin’ servers, man.


----------



## sansho

M1k3 said:


> Pew pew is lame imitation of a gun.
> 
> You just sound stupid.
> 
> Look even stupider using an "air hand/finger gun".


----------



## M1k3

sansho said:


>



Yeah, I'm have to double down on my previous comment.


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Yeah, I'm have to double down on my previous comment.


Dadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadadada


----------



## ian

Greasylake said:


> We domesticated the most boring fruits



Tautology. Fruit only becomes boring when domesticated and widely available.


----------



## sansho

imo grocery store fruit (and produce in general) is boring because flavor isn't the main priority.


----------



## sansho

lamps are the lowest form of room lighting. get that ѕhit out of here.

bulky and always in the way. taking up valuable counter/desk/nightstand space. or for floor standers, it's in the way of a sofa or chair or something. and often not even controlled by remote switches. and don't get me started on the wasted power receptacles.

also, lamp shades? come on. what moron came up with that one? that's like wrapping you sound system in blankets. lights are already inefficient enough without these brainless schemes.

why do most hotel rooms make extensive use of lamps? they're so bad.

ugly, sad trash


----------



## Michi

Knives are overrated. I can buy all my salami, cheese, and ham already pre-sliced.


----------



## spaceconvoy

sansho said:


> lamps are the lowest form of room lighting. get that ѕhit out of here.
> 
> bulky and always in the way. taking up valuable counter/desk/nightstand space. or for floor standers, it's in the way of a sofa or chair or something. and often not even controlled by remote switches. and don't get me started on the wasted power receptacles.
> 
> also, lamp shades? come on. what moron came up with that one? that's like wrapping you sound system in blankets. lights are already inefficient enough without these brainless schemes.
> 
> why do most hotel rooms make extensive use of lamps? they're so bad.
> 
> ugly, sad trash
> 
> View attachment 187024


I love it. This is an excellent unpopular opinion


----------



## M1k3

sansho said:


> lamps are the lowest form of room lighting. get that ѕhit out of here.
> 
> bulky and always in the way. taking up valuable counter/desk/nightstand space. or for floor standers, it's in the way of a sofa or chair or something. and often not even controlled by remote switches. and don't get me started on the wasted power receptacles.
> 
> also, lamp shades? come on. what moron came up with that one? that's like wrapping you sound system in blankets. lights are already inefficient enough without these brainless schemes.
> 
> why do most hotel rooms make extensive use of lamps? they're so bad.
> 
> ugly, sad trash
> 
> View attachment 187024


----------



## coxhaus

sansho said:


> imo grocery store fruit (and produce in general) is boring because flavor isn't the main priority.



Home grown tomatoes. Nothing like it especially for BLTs.


----------



## stringer

coxhaus said:


> Home grown tomatoes. Nothing like it especially for BLTs.


This we can agree on. The iceberg we're going to have to agree to disagree.


----------



## coxhaus

I grow 15 tomatoes plants every year just so I have a good supply. I freeze what I can't eat. The frozen ones taste great in the winter.


----------



## sansho

people who don't post actual links to things are lazy morons. "google this thing"

why don't _you_ google it for us if your thing is so great and worth sharing?

do the work _once_ and save everyone else reading your (likely useless) post the trouble.

also, referring to posts by numbers ("see post number 103 in this thread") instead of linking to posts is for boomers.


----------



## labor of love

Kale Caesar is better than any regular Caesar. 
Iceberg should never be consumed.
Bibb lettuce is the greatest of all the lettuces.


----------



## RDalman

coxhaus said:


> I grow 15 tomatoes plants every year just so I have a good supply. I freeze what I can't eat. The frozen ones taste great in the winter.


Try growing some lettuce of the variety "little gem" if you can find it. It's our favourite, like a inbetween of romaine and iceberg.


----------



## Jovidah

Why would you voluntarily eat kale unless there's a food crisis or something and the only alternative is eating something like turnips, tulips or animal fodder?


----------



## jwthaparc

coxhaus said:


> When it comes to BLT sandwiches there is no substitute to cold iceberg lettuce in my opinion. And of course, home grown tomatoes.


I can agree to that.


----------



## esoo




----------



## labor of love

What’s the deal with all these popular opinions about kale on this thread?


----------



## BillHanna

Jovidah said:


> Why would you voluntarily eat kale unless there's a food crisis or something and the only alternative is eating something like turnips, tulips or animal fodder?


Turnip greens are good.


----------



## Jovidah

labor of love said:


> What’s the deal with all these popular opinions about kale on this thread?


Hey you brought it up, I'm just giving my opinion on it... 
I genuinely don't understand why kale suddenly became so hip in the US in the last decade or so. People started putting it in smoothies, salads... anything. Over here it's basically one of those traditional vegetables I associate with the absolutely horrenduous food known as 'Dutch cuisine' and grandma's stories of the hunger winter...


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Jovidah said:


> Hey you brought it up, I'm just giving my opinion on it...
> I genuinely don't understand why kale suddenly became so hip in the US in the last decade or so. People started putting it in smoothies, salads... anything. Over here it's basically one of those traditional vegetables I associate with the absolutely horrenduous food known as 'Dutch cuisine' and grandma's stories of the hunger winter...



The hunger winter? Wasn't that a vampire dragon series?


----------



## labor of love

Yeah most of the time kale is quite overrated. I do enjoy Lacinato kale. And somehow basic kale makes for a great Caesar.


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> The hunger winter? Wasn't that a vampire dragon series?


Sounds like a mashup of GoT and Hunger Games.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> Sounds like a mashup of GoT and Hunger Games.



And to stay on topic, both franchises sucked.


----------



## MarcelNL

on topic is off topic in most threads


----------



## ethompson

I actually quite like kale. Even more so when I consider I sell almost a literal ton of it a week… those j-nats don’t pay for themselves!


----------



## Jovidah

HumbleHomeCook said:


> The hunger winter? Wasn't that a vampire dragon series?


It was the winter of 1944-1945. The WW2 frontline basically split the country in half after the failure of Operation Market Garden and as a result the food situation was extremely problematic. It was worst in the areas still occupied where thousands starved, but even in already liberated areas like where my grandma lived it was no picknick.


----------



## MarcelNL

people ate tulip bulbs, I tried them being a kid on an adventure.... and I liked them as much as I like kale....

We should add that the Nazi's had robbed all resources to begin with and blocked food transport for weeks in revenge for the railroad strike, the coal mines in the south were no longer a resource for the north for keeping houses heated adn the combination of the two resulting in approx 20.000 deaths as the winter was quite fierce.


----------



## Rangen

I have never liked kale. I doubt I would like it in any kind of salad whatsoever (too bitter, plus it insists on itself). But I've always suspected that I would probably like it, if it were cooked to softness with some sort of cured pork product containing lots of fat. Bacon, guanciale, salt pork, something. And maybe some vinegar.


----------



## stringer

Rangen said:


> I have never liked kale. I doubt I would like it in any kind of salad whatsoever (too bitter, plus it insists on itself). But I've always suspected that I would probably like it, if it were cooked to softness with some sort of cured pork product containing lots of fat. Bacon, guanciale, salt pork, something. And maybe some vinegar.




Cooked greens of some sort (collards, kale, chard, turnip, mustard, etc) should be served at every meal.


----------



## Rangen

Unpopular opinion: stir-fried lettuce, with chicken stock and garlic, is awesome.

Caveat: the lettuce in question is Taiwanese in origin, and is called A choy.


----------



## stringer

Rangen said:


> Unpopular opinion: stir-fried lettuce, with chicken stock and garlic, is awesome.
> 
> Caveat: the lettuce in question is Taiwanese in origin, and is called A choy.


I bet it's actually cabbage if it's a choy


----------



## MarcelNL

Turnip greens, mustard greens, seared romaine, etc fine, but Kale.....in the dumpster


----------



## ethompson

stringer said:


> Cooked greens of some sort (collards, kale, chard, turnip, mustard, etc) should be served at every meal.


Or of all sorts! My favorite southern style silky greens is a mix of collards, turnip, and mustard


----------



## ethompson

Also had some wok fried collards at a now closed restaurant in Houston that were among the absolute best I’ve ever had! I miss that place


----------



## Rangen

stringer said:


> I bet it's actually cabbage if it's a choy


OK, unless that was a joke, you lost me (I guess even if it was a joke, you lost me). Choy is vegetable, and if you see A choy in a Chinese market, the sign will actually have the letter A, followed by the character for choy.


----------



## stringer

Rangen said:


> OK, unless that was a joke, you lost me (I guess even if it was a joke, you lost me). Choy is vegetable, and if you see A choy in a Chinese market, the sign will actually have the letter A, followed by the character for choy.


Choy is Chinese for cabbage. Or brassica family more generally.


----------



## stringer

stringer said:


> Choy is Chinese for cabbage. Or brassica family more generally.


A choy is a variety of choy.


----------



## M1k3

Am I the only one that thinks being at home, on July 4th, is better than earning double time?


----------



## Rangen

stringer said:


> Choy is Chinese for cabbage. Or brassica family more generally.


Ah, very interesting. I did not know that. I thought it was just vegetable. Now you've got me wondering whether I've had it wrong for years, or whether it's common to use choy for any vegetable, regardless of the literal meaning. Things like that are not unheard of.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

@Jovidah and @MarcelNL please know that I meant no disrespect whatsoever and I hope you didn't take it as such.


----------



## stringer

Rangen said:


> Ah, very interesting. I did not know that. I thought it was just vegetable. Now you've got me wondering whether I've had it wrong for years, or whether it's common to use choy for any vegetable, regardless of the literal meaning. Things like that are not unheard of.


It could be. But looking at pictures it looks like the Chinese cabbage family (bok choy, Napa cabbage, gai lan, etc).


----------



## labor of love

Smash burger phenomenon occurred simply because many line cooks are too lazy to portion and patty proper burgers.


----------



## parbaked

stringer said:


> Choy is Chinese for cabbage. Or brassica family more generally.


There are Chinese choy that are not cabbage or brassica family. 
One example is ong choy, also known as morning glory or water spinach.


----------



## Jovidah

HumbleHomeCook said:


> @Jovidah and @MarcelNL please know that I meant no disrespect whatsoever and I hope you didn't take it as such.


Oooh no worries... tragedy + time = comedy.  I just gave the super-short version of what happened because I realized that while it's well-known in our national history it's not exactly known in the rest of the world.


----------



## Rangen

parbaked said:


> Their are Chinese choy that are not cabbage or brassica family.
> One example is ong choy, also known as morning glory or water spinach.


Thank you. Not only for the linguistic clarification, but also because you have reminded me of a mind-blowing dish of stir-fried water spinach with shrimp paste that I once had at a working-class Sichuan restaurant in North Point.


----------



## MarcelNL

regular baby spinach..... stir fried with a hint of garlic, some ginger and finished off with a spoon full of Lobster butter


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

I don't fear moving ingredients with my edge.

Not far, not perpendicular scraping, but slightly angled and moving aside.


----------



## coxhaus

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I don't fear moving ingredients with my edge.
> 
> Not far, not perpendicular scraping, but slightly angled and moving aside.



I am with you as I do it all the time. I may not be as careful as you as I just scrape.


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I don't fear moving ingredients with my edge.
> 
> Not far, not perpendicular scraping, but slightly angled and moving aside.


I fear the sound of nails on chalkboard.


----------



## bahamaroot

I don't fear it but I also don't do it. Not that hard to turn the knife and use the spine to do the same thing and it's safer than using the edge.


----------



## ethompson

Apples are better than carrots for testing the grind on knives


----------



## Jovidah

Doigh


bahamaroot said:


> I don't fear it but I also don't do it. Not that hard to turn the knife and use the spine to do the same thing and it's safer than using the edge.


...or a dough scraper, that fits 3x as much food.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Jovidah said:


> Doigh
> 
> ...or a dough scraper, that fits 3x as much food.



I use the hell out of a scraper. I wasn't talking about that kind of thing in my post. Just sliding some herbs or garlic a couple inches over as I get back to chopping.


----------



## jacko9

I bought one of those food scrapers with the side walls and a rolled up section for a handle but, I should have just cleaned off my 6" drywall blade it is much easier to use and a whole lot cheaper.


----------



## coxhaus

Jovidah said:


> Doigh
> 
> ...or a dough scraper, that fits 3x as much food.


I should try to be better and use one. I do sometimes. It is just hard for me to stop and get my scraper out. It is so much faster to use the knife. Maybe I will try flipping the knife and use the back side.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

coxhaus said:


> I should try to be better and use one. I do sometimes. It is just hard for me to stop and get my scraper out. It is so much faster to use the knife. Maybe I will try flipping the knife and use the back side.



I have a flat metal scraper and it lives right in front of my board so it's always right there. Until I moved it there, I would also not bother half the time.


----------



## DitmasPork

I've used but never wanted to get a scraper, just don't have the counter space, or need for an additional tool—definitely not an essential in my kitchen. I drag my knives against the board to move and pick up chopped ingredients—really don't like flipping the blade, getting food on the top side of my knife—just my personal preference. I've not had issues with quickly dulled blades—even if it did, that's why I have sharpening stones.


----------



## coxhaus

DitmasPork said:


> I've used but never wanted to get a scraper, just don't have the counter space, or need for an additional tool—definitely not an essential in my kitchen. I drag my knives against the board to move and pick up chopped ingredients—really don't like flipping the blade, getting food on the top side of my knife—just my personal preference. I've not had issues with quickly dulled blades—even if it did, that's why I have sharpening stones.



I have never chipped or dulled my blade that I noticed using it as a scraper. With all this talk I thought I have just been lucky but maybe not.


----------



## Jovidah

DitmasPork said:


> I've used but never wanted to get a scraper, just don't have the counter space, or need for an additional tool—definitely not an essential in my kitchen. I drag my knives against the board to move and pick up chopped ingredients—really don't like flipping the blade, getting food on the top side of my knife—just my personal preference. I've not had issues with quickly dulled blades—even if it did, that's why I have sharpening stones.


Space is a non-issue; you can just stick them below your cutting board.


----------



## DitmasPork

Jovidah said:


> Space is a non-issue; you can just stick them below your cutting board.


My cutting board doesn’t have feet so they it can’t go under the board. Even if space weren’t an issue, I simply find the scraper unnecessary, don’t like using them—changing tools and flipping a knife slows me down when cooking in deadline for a supper party. I typically like to have the fewest tools out on the counter.


----------



## Naftoor

labor of love said:


> Smash burger phenomenon occurred simply because many line cooks are too lazy to portion and patty proper burgers.




Finally an ACTUAL unpopular opinion. A smash burger is everything a burger should be. Crispy crust from high heat like a good steak, juicy from the fat, and oozing melted cheese that soaks into the toasted bun. It’s everything that makes a burger good, a celebration of the cow that gave its life to make it. None of that frufru **** like sprouts or fried eggs or lettuce heathens add to burgers


----------



## Giovanny Torres

DitmasPork said:


> My cutting board doesn’t have feet so they it can’t go under the board. Even if space weren’t an issue, I simply find the scraper unnecessary, don’t like using them—changing tools and flipping a knife slows me down when cooking in deadline for a supper party. I typically like to have the fewest tools out on the counter.


I work in a fine dining restaurant with lots of pressure and deadlines and I have time to flip my knife, it takes literally a second to do it and find it hard to believe if someone says that is making them slower.


----------



## DitmasPork

Giovanny Torres said:


> I work in a fine dining restaurant with lots of pressure and deadlines and I have time to flip my knife, it takes literally a second to do it and find it hard to believe if someone says that is making them slower.


It's not like I've never flipped a knife—I just don't do it; counter-intuitive to me; don't find it necessary; and yeah flipping a blade does slow me down. Everyone has their own methods. My knives are generally quite robust, their edges don't mind being dragged on the board.


----------



## MowgFace

DitmasPork said:


> My cutting board doesn’t have feet so they it can’t go under the board. Even if space weren’t an issue, I simply find the scraper unnecessary, don’t like using them—changing tools and flipping a knife slows me down when cooking in deadline for a supper party. I typically like to have the fewest tools out on the counter.



I usually just scrape with my knife, but if I do end up using a scraper I also tuck under the board. Though mine is flat on one side







It does bother me that it stands proud of the board, but it’s not all that big of a deal.


----------



## Jovidah

Yeah you don't need feet to actually stick them under the board. Especially when it's one of those completely flat ones (like most of the plastic ones). Can just tuck it right under there no problems.


----------



## timebard

Naftoor said:


> Finally an ACTUAL unpopular opinion. A smash burger is everything a burger should be. Crispy crust from high heat like a good steak, juicy from the fat, and oozing melted cheese that soaks into the toasted bun. It’s everything that makes a burger good, a celebration of the cow that gave its life to make it. None of that frufru **** like sprouts or fried eggs or lettuce heathens add to burgers


Sprouts on a burger are ridiculous but a fried egg is delicious as hell. Messy, sure, but worth it.


----------



## coxhaus

I think lettuce is great on a burger, but I don't use it on smash burgers. I just use grilled onions, preferably Doctor Pepper onions, and sometimes grilled peppers. A little DP on your onions makes for some nice grilled onions for a smash burger.


----------



## DitmasPork

MowgFace said:


> I usually just scrape with my knife, but if I do end up using a scraper I also tuck under the board. Though mine is flat on one side
> 
> View attachment 187797
> 
> 
> It does bother me that it stands proud of the board, but it’s not all that big of a deal.


Cheers. Appreciate the photo—though that wouldn't work in my kitchen, I often pick up my board to rinse to rinse between ingredients, grabbing the board by the edge; I'll also move my board often, so the scraper would really get in the way, couldn't handle something under the board. Ultimately, I simply don't like or need a scrapers, and will likely never get one—a scraper would be useless to me, and would collect dust. I do love my kitchen tools, but tend to only acquire non-knife stuff when there's a need. Scrapers were never a tool in my grandmas or mom's kitchens. As mentioned, when I cook, I typically just drag my blade along the board to move or pick up ingredients—it's expedient; never had issue with dulled blades.


----------



## noj

jacko9 said:


> I bought one of those food scrapers with the side walls and a rolled up section for a handle but, I should have just cleaned off my 6" drywall blade it is much easier to use and a whole lot cheaper.



Actually .. yes. Though I use it for scaping a tabletop after making dough or pasta more than the cutting board.


----------



## captaincaed

These are the same, just with the handle on the other side.


----------



## sansho

f cemeteries.







f the entire funeral industry. the head stones, the caskets, the embalming process. the funeral processions that jam up traffic. the weird upcharges and preying upon grief and guilt when a family is at its most vulnerable. the financial stress.

*but most of all, f cemetaries.* what a waste of space. imagine if every cemetery was a public park instead. land that was actually useful to people and didn't pollute the ground with pickled corpses and chemicals.

if i had my way, i'd remove 99% of them and turn them into something useful. i'd only leave ones that have great historic, archaeological, artistic, or some other value.

i'll be cremated when i go. people can scatter my ashes somewhere if they want, but it's better to just not even pick them up from the crematory. i want all my friends and family to have a really nice party somewhere instead. or just have drinks at someone's house if they're broke (but they're not).

*i get that cemeteries are a place to mourn and remember, but let's be real. you can do that sһit at a really nice park instead.*


----------



## Bico Doce

sansho said:


> i'll be cremated when i go. people can scatter my ashes somewhere if they want


My ashes will be used in a tamahagane for the very last custom I booked on my deathbed. What would have been spent on the funeral will cover the $5k bill from the maker. The only question left is what size gyuto and grind should i be? Should i get a saya or is that too much like a coffin?


----------



## Delat

sansho said:


> f cemeteries.
> 
> View attachment 189727
> 
> 
> f the entire funeral industry. the head stones, the caskets, the embalming process. the funeral processions that jam up traffic. the weird upcharges and preying upon grief and guilt when a family is at its most vulnerable. the financial stress.
> 
> *but most of all, f cemetaries.* what a waste of space. imagine if every cemetery was a public park instead. land that was actually useful to people and didn't pollute the ground with pickled corpses and chemicals.
> 
> if i had my way, i'd remove 99% of them and turn them into something useful. i'd only leave ones that have great historic, archaeological, artistic, or some other value.
> 
> i'll be cremated when i go. people can scatter my ashes somewhere if they want, but it's better to just not even pick them up from the crematory. i want all my friends and family to have a really nice party somewhere instead. or just have drinks at someone's house if they're broke (but they're not).
> 
> *i get that cemeteries are a place to mourn and remember, but let's be real. you can do that sһit at a really nice park instead.*



I’ve told my daughter to cremate me and if anybody’s tailgating her on the way home to open the sunroof and fling my ashes at them.


----------



## tostadas

"I don't know why people on this forum seem so angry when all I ever wanted to do was try and start arguments"


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Just so ya know, George Carlin wasn't right about everything.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Just so ya know, George Carlin wasn't right about everything.


True enough. I find my prayers answers with a frequency off about 51% if they're directed towards Joe Pesci...


----------



## M1k3

tostadas said:


> "I don't know why people on this forum seem so angry when all I ever wanted to do was try and start arguments"


You need some PhD students.


----------



## Knivperson

Bob kramer knives are overrated


----------



## Bico Doce

Knivperson said:


> Bob Cramer knives are overrated


I once paid $18k for one of these. I was surely disappointed when I saw "Cramer" on the box. Never again


----------



## Knivperson

Bico Doce said:


> I once paid $18k for one of these. I was surely disappointed when I saw "Cramer" on the box. Never again


Corrected


----------



## MSicardCutlery

I am profoundly amazed that dad jokes have not compelled the entirety of our species into medically induced sterility, or at least permanent, voluntary celibacy.


----------



## Rangen

Dad jokes are part of the glue that keeps civilization going.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

MSicardCutlery said:


> I am profoundly amazed that dad jokes have not compelled the entirety of our species into medically induced sterility, or at least permanent, voluntary celibacy.



Dude.

I am renowned for such jokes and while I may solicit some groans and eye rolls, I nearly equally solicit chuckles and thank you's. Joke depending of course, but it is my experience, from nine to fifty nine, folks like a good dad joke.

Perhaps you're just not well versed or maybe you're not all that well read. I mean, some time ago I read a study that we only retain 50% of the books we read so I started buying two of each afterward.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

Oh please, dad jokes are the Toronto Maple Leaf's of humor. Seems like there's genuine potential, but you're always disappointed by the end, and they're far better suited to a golf course than the arena.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

MSicardCutlery said:


> Oh please, dad jokes are the Toronto Maple Leaf's of humor. Seems like there's genuine potential, but you're always disappointed by the end, and they're far better suited to a golf course than the arena.



Hmmm...

I don't know anything about Canadian trees so I don't know if they should be denigrated or not but ya know, it seems like you enjoy nature so maybe we can find some common ground. For example, do you know why squirrels swim on their backs?

It's to keep their nuts dry.


----------



## labor of love

For centuries people have been eating blue cheese believing it’s a sign of a quality palate or there’s some secret wonderful nuance to it.
France has been playing a prank of massive proportions on society at large, selling fart flavored mold to the rest of the world for exotic prices.


----------



## labor of love

That being said sysco or whatever cheapo blue cheese makes for killer blue dressing (Maytag is the goat).
Leave it to Buffalo NY to find the only true purpose for this hideous cheese’s existence.


----------



## M1k3

Apparently I have an "unpopular opinion" with the management at my work:

Only doing the job I'm classified for, paid for and scheduled for.


----------



## M1k3

M1k3 said:


> Apparently I have an "unpopular opinion" with the management at my work:
> 
> Only doing the job I'm classified for, paid for and scheduled for.


"Don't you want to be Sous Chef?" - Management

"Sure. Promotion with pay to reflect my new responsibilities." - Me

"....." - Management (which I assume is some variation of "HA! NO!" or "No one wants to work")


----------



## runninscared

M1k3 said:


> Apparently I have an "unpopular opinion" with the management at my work:
> 
> Only doing the job I'm classified for, paid for and scheduled for.


this 100%. i literally go out of my way to avoid doing **** that my job doesnt pay me for. the amount of times i've just played dumb about stuff at work is staggeringly high. almost daily i get to listen to a co worker ***** to me about having to do all this additional **** and having to work extra hours because he thought he would be nice a few times and volunteer to "help out" here and there, now these are part of his job and hes miserable. 

i have no intention of becoming the new maintenance man or getting network administrator duties added to the list of **** to do that im not being paid for.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

M1k3 said:


> "Don't you want to be Sous Chef?" - Management
> 
> "Sure. Promotion with pay to reflect my new responsibilities." - Me
> 
> "....." - Management (which I assume is some variation of "HA! NO!" or "No one wants to work")


Just to be clear, you're not referring to a sort of baptism by fire period where you're being tried on without officially having been given the position to see if you can do the job? But being qualified and competent, and being leveraged without fair recompense? 

Not making presumptions about you're ability. And admittedly I am one of those saps who never says no to management in my own industry and who has frequently ended up doing jobs for periods which warranted considerable pay adjustments, without any.


----------



## M1k3

MSicardCutlery said:


> Just to be clear, you're not referring to a sort of baptism by fire period where you're being tried on without officially having been given the position to see if you can do the job? But being qualified and competent, and being leveraged without fair recompense?
> 
> Not making presumptions about you're ability. And admittedly I am one of those saps who never says no to management in my own industry and who has frequently ended up doing jobs for periods which warranted considerable pay adjustments, without any.


I was verbally told I was going to be promoted by Exec Chef.

Round of promotions happen, I'm not included.

Ask about promotion with Exec, shrugged off and told "at least you got a $1/HR raise".

Exec and Sous act like jackass's towards me now.



I've been going the extra mile since Day 1. I'm done doing extra for the Exec and Sous. I won't leave my coworkers struggling though, within reason.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

Eesh, that's a rough go. I don't blame you one bit.


----------



## M1k3




----------



## miggus

hahaha nice one @M1k3.

OK now my contribution: Thank god my (9) housemates treat their kitchen knives like crap - so I got stuff to sharpen on a regular basis.


----------



## Rangen

miggus said:


> hahaha nice one @M1k3.
> 
> OK now my contribution: Thank god my (9) housemates treat their kitchen knives like crap - so I got stuff to sharpen on a regular basis.


They must have stainless steel knives, or you would not be so cheerful about it.


----------



## miggus

Hehe true @Rangen . They might have had carbon once. If they did, it has long been disintegrated without leaving a trace by weekly runs in the dishwasher


----------



## agp

If you are at fault for a car accident and you cause a traffic jam, you should compensate those affected for their time, gas, and wear and tear on their cars. Typing this as I idle away in my normally 8mpg car.

Pay more tax if you want a bike lane.


----------



## esoo

I can't be bothered to check if I've said this already here: chamfered spines suck (looking at you Kono FM)

I know that it takes skill the make the perfect chamfer down the distal taper, but it generally takes a nice size spine and makes it thinner than it needs to be. Just round the spine and be done with it - ultimately it is more comfortable in use.


----------



## M1k3

esoo said:


> I can't be bothered to check if I've said this already here: chamfered spines suck (looking at you Kono FM)
> 
> I know that it takes skill the make the perfect chamfer down the distal taper, but it generally takes a nice size spine and makes it thinner than it needs to be. Just round the spine and be done with it - ultimately it is more comfortable in use.


Yeah! Scalloped spine is where it's at!


----------



## myguidingmoonlight

ethompson said:


> Apples are better than carrots for testing the grind on knives


But apples will patina your knives while carrots don't; I consider that when I'm just trying out some cuts.


----------



## Rangen

M1k3 said:


> Yeah! Scalloped spine is where it's at!


Please tell me that is a Photoshop, not a real knife.


----------



## M1k3

Rangen said:


> Please tell me that is a Photoshop, not a real knife.


No clue. Got the picture from @Kippington


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Yeah! Scalloped spine is where it's at! View attachment 199469


Breadji? Slice the ham, then slice the bread?


----------



## tostadas

M1k3 said:


> Yeah! Scalloped spine is where it's at! View attachment 199469


Does it have a ktip at the front and a pizza cutter at the back too?


----------



## M1k3

tostadas said:


> Does it have a ktip at the front and a pizza cutter at the back too?





M1k3 said:


> No clue. Got the picture from @Kippington


----------



## Reptyle

I'm usually a little bit disappointed when the mods clean up a BST thread. 

I get it's better for the seller, but it's fun reading the drama. 
Always want to respond with a popcorn gif, but don't want to clog the thread.


----------



## ian

Reptyle said:


> I'm usually a little bit disappointed when the mods clean up a BST thread.
> 
> I get it's better for the seller, but it's fun reading the drama.
> Always want to respond with a popcorn gif, but don't want to clog the thread.



*care*

I made you a thread. Don't keep your popcorn all bottled up inside you. It will explode.





__





The high drama thread


:popcorn:




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## ethompson

myguidingmoonlight said:


> But apples will patina your knives while carrots don't; I consider that when I'm just trying out some cuts.


You’re describing a feature not a bug

2nd unpopular opinion - unless youve cut enough product to leave a healthy patina, you can’t make a proper judgement about its utility unless there is something glaringly wrong with its construction


----------



## tcmx3

ethompson said:


> You’re describing a feature not a bug
> 
> 2nd unpopular opinion - unless youve cut enough product to leave a healthy patina, you can’t make a proper judgement about its utility unless there is something glaringly wrong with its construction



I'll take it a step further, until you have put a knife down on the stones (or the belts, for the very brave amongst us), you don't get to talk about the grind without qualifying that you're guessing.


----------



## ian

Agreed! You are in no position to comment on the quality of a knife’s grind until you have put it on a 60 grit belt for at least half an hour. After that, you can confidently say the grind is sh*t.


----------



## Naftoor

tcmx3 said:


> I'll take it a step further, until you have put a knife down on the stones (or the belts, for the very brave amongst us), you don't get to talk about the grind without qualifying that you're guessing.



Shouldn’t grind be evident in how a knife cuts though? Food release, ease of how it moves through product, wedging, striction should all be tied to the geometry of the grind and unfortunately there’s only so much you can change on stones beyond thinning. A lot of that is determined by the maker between using radiused platens when initially grinding the blank or adding hollows during the forging process


----------



## tcmx3

Naftoor said:


> Shouldn’t grind be evident in how a knife cuts though? Food release, ease of how it moves through product, wedging, striction should all be tied to the geometry of the grind and unfortunately there’s only so much you can change on stones beyond thinning. A lot of that is determined by the maker between using radiused platens when initially grinding the blank or adding hollows during the forging process



I mean, we got people on here talking about how good the grind on their new knife is and posting photos with obvious holes that go all the way down to the edge.

My comment is less that you can't know without going to the stones, it's more around people's behavior.


----------



## Naftoor

tcmx3 said:


> I mean, we got people on here talking about how good the grind on their new knife is and posting photos with obvious holes that go all the way down to the edge.
> 
> My comment is less that you can't know without going to the stones, it's more around people's behavior.



Ohhhh touché, agreed. I don’t think there’s a ton that can be taken from choil shots without use, but there seems to be a fetish for them in the knife community. I’ve had knives that have thick as oatmeal super workhorse choils with no cracking issues, and midweights that crack like nobodies business, even though choil shots would say the opposite should be true


----------



## Bico Doce

Naftoor said:


> I don’t think there’s a ton that can be taken from choil shots without use, but there seems to be a fetish for them in the knife community.


I'm certainly guilty of being mislead by a choil shot and maybe even misleading someone with a choil shot but... I would rather have this data point than not. I really dislike when retailers do not offer a choil shot and all we have to assess the grind is the specs and the description. I feel like choil shot combined with length and weight gives me decent idea of the grind - i.e. if the choil doesnt look very thick or thin but the knife is 220 mm 210 grams (depending on the handle) there is a chance that the taper & distal taper just isnt there and it's too thick bte for my taste. I dont have any hard and fast rules here just more of a intuition after looking at the numbers


----------



## esoo

Naftoor said:


> Ohhhh touché, agreed. I don’t think there’s a ton that can be taken from choil shots without use, but there seems to be a fetish for them in the knife community. I’ve had knives that have thick as oatmeal super workhorse choils with no cracking issues, and midweights that crack like nobodies business, even though choil shots would say the opposite should be true



Lefties can tell a ton from choil shots....


----------



## myguidingmoonlight

Bico Doce said:


> I'm certainly guilty of being mislead by a choil shot and maybe even misleading someone with a choil shot but... I would rather have this data point than not. I really dislike when retailers do not offer a choil shot and all we have to assess the grind is the specs and the description. I feel like choil shot combined with length and weight gives me decent idea of the grind - i.e. if the choil doesnt look very thick or thin but the knife is 220 mm 210 grams (depending on the handle) there is a chance that the taper & distal taper just isnt there and it's too thick bte for my taste. I dont have any hard and fast rules here just more of a intuition after looking at the numbers


I think a choil shot, a spine shot to show the taper, and a close up of the edge to see how large the microbevel is gives the best picture for an online buyer of the knife's performance.

I certainly didn't think Kippingtons were great cutters judging by the choil alone, until I saw pictures of that insane taper.

However, these are just my unprofessional opinions.


----------



## ch_br

Choil shots are very similar to cars sitting stationary on a lot.
Without a test drive, you definitively know nothing about the experience of the thing_... which is the whole point of USING the thing!!!_

It doesn't matter what the 'latest & greatest' generations of data over-analyzing people (who watch the same YT, IG promo & advanced release videos 75times) tell you.

Until you viscerally experience anything that is meant for USE ( such as a knife for a vehicle)----under a variety of situations--you're guessing at its capabilities at best.

I've been blown away by so many seemingly "unimpressive" vehicles and knives at this point that I cant even count. AND was happy to do so!

/endrant


----------



## ch_br

I know people will quickly say, but you can see x, y , and z from examination which can lead to a, b, and c conclusion.

While some of that is accurate for clues to points knowledge, its far from definitive to an overall conclusive summary.

What I am talking about specifically here is the experience of real use here... Meaning: the visceral and practical knowledge of said useage.

Just a preemptive counterargument


----------



## Bico Doce

ch_br said:


> Choil shots are very similar to cars sitting stationary on a lot.
> Without a test drive, you definitively know nothing about the experience of the thing_... which is the whole point of USING the thing!!!_
> 
> It doesn't matter what the 'latest & greatest' generations of data over-analyzing people (who watch the same YT, IG promo & advanced release videos 75times) tell you.
> 
> Until you viscerally experience anything that is meant for USE ( such as a knife for a vehicle)----under a variety of situations--you're guessing at its capabilities at best.
> 
> I've been blown away by so many seemingly "unimpressive" vehicles and knives at this point that I cant even count. AND was happy to do so!
> 
> /endrant


I would happily take a "test drive" with a knife over specs but that just isnt going to happen when almost every knife purchase is made online (at least this is true for me). True, you never truly know until you use it but without some type of judgment call based on pics and specs you are going to end up being disappointed more often than not. I would also add that I have bought enough from some makers that based on pics and specs I know exactly how the knife will perform prior to using it.


----------



## ch_br

Bico Doce said:


> I have bought enough from some makers that based on pics and specs I know exactly how the knife will perform prior to using it.



I can understand that and it makes sense....

I believe we are agreeing and essentially saying the same thing_... drawing off practical and visceral knowledge, based on collective experiences from using that maker's style, tendencies, or preferences in certain aspects of design and execution_?


----------



## Bico Doce

ch_br said:


> I can understand that....
> 
> _But isn't that you drawing off your practical and visceral knowledge, based on your collective experiences from that maker's style, tendencies, or preferences in certain aspects of design and execution_?


Most definitely. To be honest, in those cases I dont even need to look at pics. Just basic specs and I can probably guess how it's going to feel, the balance, etc.. But that usually takes owning 5 or more from the same maker to get to that point. Not necessarily helpful if you're just starting out. This is a good reason to reach out to trusted friends/knife associates who have experience with a maker you're interested in. So whole heartedly agree with you experience > pics/specs but I still do love a good money shot...


----------



## ch_br

Bico Doce said:


> But that usually takes owning 5 or more from the same maker to get to that point.



You're a big baller then! 

And now I KNOW who to inquire with about makers I have no experience with!


----------



## Keith Sinclair

True most knives are bought on line except for me at A Frames. 

Think it's important for sellers to provide choil shot pictures. Few sellers like JKI give detailed description of knife. Going by what others praise is a crap shoot. What I like in a knife others may not. Like thin lasers, but also thicker up top with KU, Nashiji, Hammer, just so thin behind the edge. Can see a lot from a choil shot. Unless distal taper your thing then spine shot gotta have too.


----------



## Bico Doce

Keith Sinclair said:


> Few sellers like JKI give detailed description of knife.


I'll take Jon's word to the bank but I've been mislead some retailers and their "descriptions" even after chatting with them. If the specs and pics are telling me a different story than the retailer then I have to go with my gut on it and trust the specs/pics


----------



## esoo

Bico Doce said:


> I'll take Jon's word to the bank but I've been mislead some retailers and their "descriptions" even after chatting with them. If the specs and pics are telling me a different story than the retailer then I have to go with my gut on it and trust the specs/pics



That only works until the spec's are wrong. I've received a knife that was 10% lighter than the published specs.


----------



## Bico Doce

esoo said:


> That only works until the spec's are wrong. I've received a knife that was 10% lighter than the published specs.


Thats a pretty big swing. Did you end up returning it?


----------



## esoo

Bico Doce said:


> Thats a pretty big swing. Did you end up returning it?



Wasn't worth the effort - once you cross a border and have paid fees already (which would be pain to try and get back).

Knife was a Kono FM W#2 210. Posted spec was 132g, knife I got was 121g.


----------



## captaincaed

10% seems reasonable for handmade items, especially with wooden handles. There's so much variation in wood density, especially with hardwoods. 

How did the knife end up cutting based on expectations from other knives in that line?


----------



## esoo

captaincaed said:


> 10% seems reasonable for handmade items, especially with wooden handles. There's so much variation in wood density, especially with hardwoods.
> 
> How did the knife end up cutting based on expectations from other knives in that line?



It was first FM I'd had. The grind was no better than a HD2 (it was almost flat ground). I used to attribute this to not enough steel to do a good convex, but then recently I had a Takada which wiped out that idea. The White 2 annoyed me - sharpness dropped of a cliff suddenly, and at the time at least I found it super challenging to sharpen. As well, I highly disliked the chamfered spine. Bottom line opinion was that it was no worth the hype.

My only other FM (a White 1 nakiri), I like the profile, weight and steel very much. The grind I find "meh", but this may be the result of me being a lefty. Still hate the chamfered spine.


----------



## captaincaed

Gotcha. I've found Ashi knives to have nice convexity even with the thinness. Bazes and Trimarchi do a great job with very slim knives as well. I think it's possible, but apparently a challenge to really nail it. 

Good luck lefty searching!


----------



## jedy617

I might get some flak for this one but this is something that irks me. Not just in the knife industry too but in a lot of other industries.

It is makers who are stubborn and stuck in their old ways, or who think they know best. Now I know there is a flip side. Annoying customers who think they know everything.

Now I want to give an example of the first point. I saw one certain European maker with a beautiful Damascus clad magnacut gyuto. He said the hrc was 62. I commented on the post "why 62?".

Now after the comment I realized it would be best to talk to the maker in DM's because I felt like that would be a better place to have a longer discussion. I gave a long explanation on why I thought harder magnacut would be a better fit, showing graphs of hrc vs toughness and edge retention, and then sharing my real world experience...and you know what he said? "I ordered thousands of dollars in magnacut and I talk to Larrin so I know what I'm doing."

This really irked me, because in my explanation I was kissing his ass. I said how I've been following his knives for awhile and how I've wanted one for a long time, etc etc and he brushes me off like I don't know any better because I'm a user and not a maker. I doubled down and gave him more data and my personal useage notes and I was kissing his ass again saying how amazing his knives looked. And you know what he said? That it was all nonsense....and this was literally after giving him testing data by Larrin showing magnacut at 65 is tougher than common stainless steel like SG2 and VG10 even...

What he didn't know was I am a huge collector and I've had magnacut before the maker probably even knew it existed. Definitely before makers were getting it in Europe. I have 8 folders in it, with 4 more on the way from makers all over the world, and 2 gyutos being made with it. But I didn't open up with "I have $25,000 in magnacut knives so I know best". I've talked with Larrin for years and I don't go around saying that...

I don't know man it feels like people aren't open minded or humble anymore. The great news is I have found a ton of amazing makers who are actually willing to listen and not just say they know best. I'm giving those makers a lot of money and business. Especially when I don't have to kiss makers assess and get treated like crap before I even own a knife by them.


----------



## jedy617

By the way...I am good friends with a popular folder maker (he has double the following or more than the chef knife maker) and he only uses super steels, follows Larrin religiously, and is pretty well regarded in the space for the niche area of PM steels in knives. He literally has a video of him hammering 65hrc magnacut into a bolt and the edge rolls, and doesn't chip lol. I'm sure you guys lots of you guys know Sean at BBB. He is the same way with passion in regards to heat treat My good maker friend is Brian at transparent knives. Used to do kitchen knives but now only folders. Brian James Kim (@transparentknives) • Instagram photos and videos
If you ever have any questions about PM steels Brian is an expert. I know our resident maker @Troopah_Knives knows him


----------



## Jovidah

Maybe he keeps it at 62 so you can still maintain it with a Micro-Dick?


----------



## jedy617

Jovidah said:


> Maybe he keeps it at 62 so you can still maintain it with a Micro-Dick?


What is that?


----------



## jedy617

Not sure if that was a joke, but if you want an actual answer, that's not going to change much in regards to sharpening. You'd still want diamond stones for the vanadium carbides in magnacut regardless of how hard it is. I have a 65.1hrc blade which is a joy to sharpen compared to other PM steels I sharpen like s90v and m390.


----------



## esoo

So you tried to get a maker to change what they were doing and you're upset when they basically blew you off? 

Every maker makes choices that suits their purposes and processes. As you said there is plenty of other makers that suit your needs. No need to get upset when they don't do what you want. Move on.


----------



## jedy617

esoo said:


> So you tried to get a maker to change what they were doing and you're upset when they basically blew you off?
> 
> Every maker makes choices that suits their purposes. As you said there is plenty of other makers that suit your needs. No need to get upset when they don't do what you want. Move on.


No need to get upset? I wanted a knife from this maker and it's just a shame they turn out to be rude. I'm allowed to be upset about that. When I present a graph showing a steel is this tough, or has this much edge retention, and the fact I have been using it extensively gets written off because I'm not a maker? Yeah I am going to get annoyed. Maybe you wouldn't but I guess I'm different. It's more of the fact that they also had no good answer or data, so they resorted to talking down on me when I would have spent many thousands of dollars with them. If he just flat out said, yeah I run it a little bit tougher for more toughness, and it's easier to sharpen...that would have been fine. I wouldn't have even gone back and argued in the contrary. But it's the "I know more than you and don't challenge me" mentality which is just dismal to see.


----------



## jedy617

For example, one reason a maker won't run a steel like magnacut that hard is it is a pain to grind, will use more belts and is a pain in the ass to hand satin. I get all those reasons why it could be ran softer. This is just a discussion about demeanor really. 

Also it was more of a shock because 95% of makers I have worked with have been above and beyond to work with.


----------



## Jovidah

jedy617 said:


> What is that?


Dickoron Micro. The most popular sharpening rod in Germanic areas. A lot of knife afficionados there prefer lower hardness so they can maintain it on a rod easier.


----------



## jedy617

Jovidah said:


> Dickoron Micro. The most popular sharpening rod in Germanic areas. A lot of knife afficionados there prefer lower hardness so they can maintain it on a rod easier.


Ahh my apologies I thought you were implying I had uhh...yeah. LOL. Anyway it's very possible that could have been the intended reason but with a steel like that...yeah I think people would want to be using diamond.

But would have been totally cool if he said literally ANYTHING other than something that implied the feeling of "I know more than you, so your question is invalid" lol.


----------



## esoo

jedy617 said:


> No need to get upset? I wanted a knife from this maker and it's just a shame they turn out to be rude. I'm allowed to be upset about that. When I present a graph showing a steel is this tough, or has this much edge retention, and the fact I have been using it extensively gets written off because I'm not a maker? Yeah I am going to get annoyed. Maybe you wouldn't but I guess I'm different. It's more of the fact that they also had no good answer or data, so they resorted to talking down on me when I would have spent many thousands of dollars with them. If he just flat out said, yeah I run it a little bit tougher for more toughness, and it's easier to sharpen...that would have been fine. I wouldn't have even gone back and argued in the contrary. But it's the "I know more than you and don't challenge me" mentality which is just dismal to see.


I'm not saying that you don't have a point about the maker being rude. But think about it from the other side - you're a maker who is quite happily making knives, have reviewed the data, tested your processes and are quite happy with your results. Then someone comes along and tells you you're wrong with your choices and sends you some data sheets to prove it. 

Depending on the person and day I can understand the rudeness. Especially since you have no idea how the maker took your messages - if English is not their first language who know how they interpret what you said. To them you could have been the rude one.


----------



## jedy617

esoo said:


> I'm not saying that you don't have a point about the maker being rude. But think about it from the other side - you're a maker who is quite happily making knives, have reviewed the data, tested your processes and are quite happy with your results. Then someone comes along and tells you you're wrong with your choices and sends you some data sheets to prove it.
> 
> Depending on the person and day I can understand the rudeness. Especially since you have no idea how the maker took your messages - if English is not their first language who know how they interpret what you said. To them you could have been the rude one.


But see this is the reason why in the DM's I was literally sucking him off telling him how amazing his knives looked and I wanted one forever. I was short in saying why 62, but again I went to his DM's right after, before he even responded to the comment. I also didn't say that lower was wrong. Again the question was why first and foremost. I get the language barrier thing. My carbon supplier is russian, working with 2 czech maker...two from south africa. I always open up with something to show I mean no disrespect and I am a fan of their work because I know there are cultural and language differences.


----------



## ian

Hard to tell only having half the conversation, but if I was happy with my methods and stressed about getting all my orders completed, I’d find it exhausting and frustrating to have someone who’s never made a knife clamoring for me to change the methods I’d developed based on a bunch of data I don’t have time to currently read.


----------



## jedy617

ian said:


> Hard to tell only having half the conversation, but if I was happy with my methods and stressed about getting all my orders completed, I’d find it exhausting and frustrating to have someone who’s never made a knife clamoring for me to change the methods I’d developed based on a bunch of data I don’t have time to currently read.


There was one chart that showed toughness vs HRC. There was also no clamoring, or even asking to change a method. Again, the question was why, and they could not answer it. If you find that exhausting or frustrating, you should not be selling $1000 chef knives based on performance which no one really needs. If you are a maker selling direct you also have to have some customer service skills. Otherwise be Y. Tanaka or any of the other smiths who sell to wholesalers only. There is a reason for that. But when you have an IG page and sell direct, you need to open up another aspect of your business.

Maybe I am conditioned because I have been going to shows and buying from makers in person and instagram for years now. I have had one instance where a maker has not been pleasurable to talk about method with in 8 years of collecting. and many hundreds of knives. Well now it's 2 I guess.


----------



## M1k3

Back on topic....

Perseverating on something. Like, ok. Got it


----------



## jedy617

M1k3 said:


> Back on topic....
> 
> Perseverating on something. Like, ok. Got it


Lol fair enough. Nothing more outta me. At least I recognize it haha


----------



## More_Gyutos

Damascus is frequently not that attractive, surely not worth the typical price jump, and often when super dark, just plain terrible looking.

Also, unpopular opinion in my house: I don’t need more gyutos.

Thoughts?





PS Just bought my first Damascus.


----------



## jedy617

More_Gyutos said:


> Damascus is frequently not that attractive, surely not worth the typical price jump, and often when super dark, just plain terrible looking.
> 
> Also, unpopular opinion in my house: I don’t need more gyutos.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS Just bought my first Damascus.


I only like it when highly polished.


----------



## Greasylake

More_Gyutos said:


> Damascus is frequently not that attractive, surely not worth the typical price jump, and often when super dark, just plain terrible looking.


Damascus has been ruined for me by all the mall ninja stuff. I see Damascus and automatically cringe haha (I say this having had some Damascus knives during my middle school Damascus phase). But seriously though there's often times too much going on with the pattern and I don't like that. I prefer a nice clean kasumi with a pretty cladding line way more. Beauty through simplicity


----------



## esoo

Most Damascus cladding is just stupid. Then there is the stuff that is art

I still want to handless a coreless Damascus knife to see how they are.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Shun makes a good knife, and their geometry is far superior to any in the same price range


----------



## Rangen

I never thought I'd buy a Damascus knife. Too showy. Then I saw how subtle and beautiful Toyama Damascus is, and...

Still only have the one Damascus knife, though.


----------



## myguidingmoonlight

spaceconvoy said:


> Shun makes a good knife, and their geometry is far superior to any in the same price range


Even Takamura?


----------



## MSicardCutlery

More_Gyutos said:


> Damascus is frequently not that attractive, surely not worth the typical price jump, and often when super dark, just plain terrible looking.
> 
> Also, unpopular opinion in my house: I don’t need more gyutos.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS Just bought my first Damascus.


I don't totally disagree. The price jump is time and material related, especially with mosaic damascus. Kyle Royer made a mosaic damascus sword some time ago. He started with over 30lbs of steel stock that turned into under 7lbs (I think) by the time the forging and drawing was all said and done, and the blade itself was just over 2lbs after all the grinding and shaping. Normal simple patterns like twist/ladder/raindrop usually result in a material loss of about 30% by the time the forging is done, and with twist its worse since the stars don't show up unless you grind very deeply so everything has to be made more oversized than normal. More material is lost with mosaic pattern from the repeated cutting and resquaring It's worse if you have venturi burners in the forge, you can't get to welding heat without an oxidizing flame so the steel really flakes into scale. Forced air on the other hand can give a welding heat with a reducing flame, just mind the carbon monoxide. I think Salem Straub spends around 20-30 hours plus just doing the pattern development for his mosaic chef knives. 

Also; start collecting nakiris?....wait, we already have a nakiri guy..............udon kiri?


----------



## M1k3

jedy617 said:


> Lol fair enough. Nothing more outta me. At least I recognize it haha


It's ok. You may sharpen 3 Globals as penance.


----------



## M1k3

Wait, wait, wait....did @Greasylake just admit to being a "Mall Ninja"?!?


----------



## spaceconvoy

myguidingmoonlight said:


> Even Takamura?


I've never held or used a Takamura but I'm going to say yes  Takamura doesn't have distal taper


----------



## Rangen

spaceconvoy said:


> I've never held or used a Takamura but I'm going to say yes  Takamura doesn't have distal taper


Takamuras are so laser-y that if they had a distal taper, the point wouldn't even exist.


----------



## Greasylake

M1k3 said:


> Wait, wait, wait....did @Greasylake just admit to being a "Mall Ninja"?!?


Reformed


----------



## jedy617

M1k3 said:


> It's ok. You may sharpen 3 Globals as penance.


No the horror!


----------



## myguidingmoonlight

spaceconvoy said:


> I've never held or used a Takamura but I'm going to say yes  Takamura doesn't have distal taper


I disagree that distal taper is the end-all-be-all in deciding how a knife cuts. I've handled Takamura knives, they are pure lasers, convex, and falls through carrots; no Shun that I've seen from any William Sonoma nearby looks impressive to me.


----------



## More_Gyutos

MSicardCutlery said:


> I don't totally disagree. The price jump is time and material related, especially with mosaic damascus. Kyle Royer made a mosaic damascus sword some time ago. He started with over 30lbs of steel stock that turned into under 7lbs (I think) by the time the forging and drawing was all said and done, and the blade itself was just over 2lbs after all the grinding and shaping. Normal simple patterns like twist/ladder/raindrop usually result in a material loss of about 30% by the time the forging is done, and with twist its worse since the stars don't show up unless you grind very deeply so everything has to be made more oversized than normal. More material is lost with mosaic pattern from the repeated cutting and resquaring It's worse if you have venturi burners in the forge, you can't get to welding heat without an oxidizing flame so the steel really flakes into scale. Forced air on the other hand can give a welding heat with a reducing flame, just mind the carbon monoxide. I think Salem Straub spends around 20-30 hours plus just doing the pattern development for his mosaic chef knives.
> 
> Also; start collecting nakiris?....wait, we already have a nakiri guy..............udon kiri?


uhhh, no the opinion is just wrong! Gyutos rock! Like, c’mon I need more of them. They could all get stolen tomorrow. Then what!?

More seriously, Damascus can be done well. I’ve been rethinking it due to Tanaka, Takada, Nakagawa and Myojin among others that I don’t even know their names. Who made you reconsider damascus or some other finish or grind?


----------



## MSicardCutlery

More_Gyutos said:


> uhhh, no the opinion is just wrong! Gyutos rock! Like, c’mon I need more of them. They could all get stolen tomorrow. Then what!?


Well you'd have to replace them of course  and come up with a good explanation for why the mattress is lumpy .....


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Damascus sucks. Adds weight and thickness with zero performance benefit. The "ooo and ahh" high contrast stuff usually just drags through wet veg. And you're probably bound to mess it up in sharpening and thinning anyway.

Give me a good, intentionally applied kurouchi finish that is, again, purposefully made but meant to look like a "blacksmith finish" and invoke romantic notions but has zero benefit and will wear off slowly (or quickly) over time.

I mean, still better than "Damascus".


----------



## jedy617

I don't know man I would take a sg2 suminigashi from mert any day: 

or some beautiful damasteel from him as well: 

Damasteel is a really great steel being pretty much CPM154. Don't think there is going to be much of a weight or thickness change either if you are doing san mai anyway. I have had FM dama knives, and a myojin nakagawa that were super thin and light...

But makes sense this thread is unpopular opinions


----------



## Naftoor

More_Gyutos said:


> Damascus is frequently not that attractive, surely not worth the typical price jump, and often when super dark, just plain terrible looking.
> 
> Also, unpopular opinion in my house: I don’t need more gyutos.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS Just bought my first Damascus.



I kinda agree on this. I don’t really get Damascus cladding for blades. It’s going to get scuffed up really quick if it’s soft enough to be used as cladding instead of core, adds quite a bit in terms of cost to a knife, and nowadays just looks like the vg10 Damascus billets that come out of china.

I’m not a massive fan of mosaic, I can appreciate the craftsmanship involved and understand why someone would buy a blade in it, just too much for my taste.

I also strongly dislike ball bearing Damascus, it looks chaotic, messy, unplanned. Like something a backyard smith found laying around his yard and forge welded together versus an intentional product.

Same issue with lower layer count Damascus billets. They just end up looking like something that would come out of Khyber pass 

That being said, a good coreless feather Damascus is a thing of beauty. I can’t justify the cost of it, but I can drool over it and quickly change tabs when my better half enters the room.


----------



## Jovidah

spaceconvoy said:


> I've never held or used a Takamura but I'm going to say yes  Takamura doesn't have distal taper


As someone else already said; if they added more taper to a Takamura there'd be no tip. The Takamura is not a perfect knife and has a few flaws (compromises have to be made in a knife so cheap) but tip performance is definitly not one of them.
Tip works better than forum favorites like Yoshikane and Y. Tanaka, and even the 'famous taper of a Mazaki' doesn't entirely keep up.

Regarding damascus... I can appreciate the workmanship but it's just not a look I really care for; too 'busy'. There's only a handful of damascus patterns that I really like (feather damascus for example).


----------



## M1k3

Am I the only one that thinks Bugatti should lower the price on the Veyron? And Ferrari and Lamborghini should slash their prices 50%? Porsche also.


----------



## jedy617

Lol. I think it's more fair to say a Chevy dealer asking for $50k over MSRP for a new C8 Corvette and Chevy not taking their dealer status away.


----------



## jedy617

M1k3 said:


> Am I the only one that thinks Bugatti should lower the price on the Veyron? And Ferrari and Lamborghini should slash their prices 50%? Porsche also.


Also since the Veyron has not been in production for 8 years I think they should lower their price to zero... Oh wait they did


----------



## M1k3

Am I the only one that thinks Bugatti should lower the price of the Chiron? (Happy @jedy617? )


----------



## M1k3

jedy617 said:


> Lol. I think it's more fair to say a Chevy dealer asking for $50k over MSRP for a new C8 Corvette and Chevy not taking their dealer status away.


A used C8 though, right?


----------



## jedy617

M1k3 said:


> A used C8 though, right?


Nope, new

Also thank you with the bugatti correction. Haha


----------



## jedy617

@M1k3 

I think this is what our complainer is talking about with knives. And I agree. Read that official blurb from a dealer lol. What a joke. The people that can pay that much for a car could still probably afford the price increase but doesn't make it right


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

jedy617 said:


> @M1k3
> 
> I think this is what our complainer is talking about with knives. And I agree. Read that official blurb from a dealer lol. What a joke. The people that can pay that much for a car could still probably afford the price increase but doesn't make it right
> 
> 
> View attachment 201405



Right according to who?

It all looks pretty clearly spelled out to me.


----------



## jedy617

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Right according to who?
> 
> It all looks pretty clearly spelled out to me.


For the guy that has worked and saved for awhile, wants to buy a corvette for himself and can pay for MSRP but not 90k over......or someone who wants to not be gouged out their minds. Why would you defend this stuff man. Bad look. If the manufacturer gives a price for something and you are happy to pay that, you should be able to pay that and not a hugely inflated price.

The dealer is not adding any value to the process. I think you could make the point that they have one "in stock" but you can order corvettes.


----------



## sansho

f new car dealers. can't wait until they get disrupted out of existence. need direct sales.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

jedy617 said:


> For the guy that has worked and saved for awhile, wants to buy a corvette for himself and can pay for MSRP but not 90k over......or someone who wants to not be gouged out their minds. Why would you defend this stuff man. Bad look. If the manufacturer gives a price for something and you are happy to pay that, you should be able to pay that and not a hugely inflated price.
> 
> The dealer is not adding any value to the process. I think you could make the point that they have one "in stock" but you can order corvettes.



It's not bad look and you're not understanding. I'm not defending it beyond the realities of a free market.

These are luxury goods. No one is going to die if they don't get their Corvette or Kramer.

If I see a price for something I think is insane, then I vote with my dollar, hell even my "voice" and denounce it. But if other people keep buying it, well then, I guess I'm out and it's time to move on. Do I think they are stupid? Yeah, but it's their money.


----------



## jedy617

Well you are saying it's not right or wrong because it's a luxury good. I still think there are rights or wrongs. No one is going to die over it. But for 99% of us who do have to work and budget, but still want our luxury goods, practices of mark ups and hype markets do suck. Again, of course there are levels to it and there isn't an end of the world if we don't get what we want. More of a shame to me I guess.

We do share most of the same thinking. I guess I just find retailer practices more egregious than you even though people will still spend that money.


----------



## esoo

This is when I like living in Ontario - dealers are not allowed to sell over MSRP. 

That said, I've seen some shady stuff where one dealer sells it to another and then the car gets sold for a markup with no mileage.


----------



## jedy617

esoo said:


> This is when I like living in Ontario - dealers are not allowed to sell over MSRP.
> 
> That said, I've seen some shady stuff where one dealer sells it to another and then the car gets sold for a markup with no mileage.


That's great. But yeah there will always be people trying to find loopholes


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

jedy617 said:


> Well you are saying it's not right or wrong because it's a luxury good. I still think there are rights or wrongs. No one is going to die over it. But for 99% of us who do have to work and budget, but still want our luxury goods, practices of mark ups and hype markets do suck. Again, of course there are levels to it and there isn't an end of the world if we don't get what we want. More of a shame to me I guess.
> 
> We do share most of the same thinking. I guess I just find retailer practices more egregious than you even though people will still spend that money.



Yeah buddy, I hate a lot of what people do with products and what they pursue and/or are willing to pay. But they do it.

I can think a dealer charging that markup is wrong but my disdain is almost always directed at the buyers who participate.


----------



## ethompson

MSRP for a bottle of Pappy 15 has been $120 for years. I haven’t seen a bottle on the shelf for that price since I was in middle school. Now that I’m old enough and could afford that, it’s not to be found for less than 5-20x msrp. You don’t see me whinging about it on the internet. There is plenty of excellent stuff for me to explore besides. 

Same with knives, maybe the knives that I originally dreamed of are now unattainable for one reason or another, but there are still tons of options to get good thrills. Never been a better time to be a kitchen cutlery consumer IMO


----------



## Rangen

ethompson said:


> MSRP for a bottle of Pappy 15 has been $120 for years. I haven’t seen a bottle on the shelf for that price since I was in middle school. Now that I’m old enough and could afford that, it’s not to be found for less than 5-20x msrp. You don’t see me whinging about it on the internet. There is plenty of excellent stuff for me to explore besides.
> 
> Same with knives, maybe the knives that I originally dreamed of are now unattainable for one reason or another, but there are still tons of options to get good thrills. Never been a better time to be a kitchen cutlery consumer IMO


In other news, you were shopping for bourbon in middle school


----------



## jedy617

ethompson said:


> MSRP for a bottle of Pappy 15 has been $120 for years. I haven’t seen a bottle on the shelf for that price since I was in middle school. Now that I’m old enough and could afford that, it’s not to be found for less than 5-20x msrp. You don’t see me whinging about it on the internet. There is plenty of excellent stuff for me to explore besides.
> 
> Same with knives, maybe the knives that I originally dreamed of are now unattainable for one reason or another, but there are still tons of options to get good thrills. Never been a better time to be a kitchen cutlery consumer IMO


Agreed that there is whining, and now is the best time to be buying chef knives in history. But there are a lot of grumpy people ragging on the guy for whining. Let him whine if it makes him feel better. Hell his friends or family certainly won't care to listen, at least some of us can sympathize lol.


----------



## M1k3

jedy617 said:


> @M1k3
> 
> I think this is what our complainer is talking about with knives. And I agree. Read that official blurb from a dealer lol. What a joke. The people that can pay that much for a car could still probably afford the price increase but doesn't make it right
> 
> 
> View attachment 201405


Don't buy from that dealer?
Luxury items are going to luxury.


jedy617 said:


> For the guy that has worked and saved for awhile, wants to buy a corvette for himself and can pay for MSRP but not 90k over......or someone who wants to not be gouged out their minds. Why would you defend this stuff man. Bad look. If the manufacturer gives a price for something and you are happy to pay that, you should be able to pay that and not a hugely inflated price.
> 
> The dealer is not adding any value to the process. I think you could make the point that they have one "in stock" but you can order corvettes.


Want to buy a Munetoshi? $300 nonrefundable deposit. Will be $900 over list price. If order is cancelled, deposit will be used for sharpening stones. Maybe some bills. Otherwise deposit will be applied to purchase.


----------



## jedy617

Lol


----------



## M1k3




----------



## Bico Doce

Ban all individual Konosuke FM WTB threads. Have all newly registered members added to an existing thread dedicated to people willing to give their left n*t for a Konosuke FM. Saves time for the members and declutters the forum. This feels like a no brainer.


----------



## jedy617

I support this. Also can we ban anyone selling kaiju for over 2k? Swear there is no ulterior motive there...


----------



## ian

ethompson said:


> whinging



!!

I had imagined you as having the Texas drawl I so loved from the Lubbock of my youth.


----------



## ethompson

ian said:


> !!
> 
> I had imagined you as having the Texas drawl I so loved from the Lubbock of my youth.


Alas! For better or worse, Despite growing up in Arkansas, schoolin in Appalachia, and living in Texas for several years, I have no discernible accent. No one was more surprised than ole @nakiriknaifuwaifu 

That said, give me about 10 pour of aforementioned bourbon and some Southern company and I somehow manage to slip into a drawl that eludes my normal self. What that says about me… I’m not sure.

Back to unpopular opinions - anyone who says their edges don’t need resharpening for a year or more (or some other hyperbole) either isn’t using their knives or doesn’t mind a dull but functional knife.


----------



## sansho

hah. i'd say that jedy seems to complain a lot, but i don't really mind. i think his complaints are reasonable.


----------



## jedy617

sansho said:


> hah. i'd say that jedy seems to complain a lot, but i don't really mind. i think his complaints are reasonable.


Haha thanks. I definitely do.


----------



## superworrier

ethompson said:


> Alas! For better or worse, Despite growing up in Arkansas, schoolin in Appalachia, and living in Texas for several years, I have no discernible accent. No one was more surprised than ole @nakiriknaifuwaifu
> 
> That said, give me about 10 pour of aforementioned bourbon and some Southern company and I somehow manage to slip into a drawl that eludes my normal self. What that says about me… I’m not sure.
> 
> Back to unpopular opinions - anyone who says their edges don’t need resharpening for a year or more (or some other hyperbole) either isn’t using their knives or doesn’t mind a dull but functional knife.


Edge retention is great! After a year it still splits hairs. BTW I’m a home cook who cooks once a week and it’s in rotation with 100 different knives.


----------



## jedy617




----------



## Jovidah

jedy617 said:


> Well you are saying it's not right or wrong because it's a luxury good. I still think there are rights or wrongs. No one is going to die over it. But for 99% of us who do have to work and budget, but still want our luxury goods, practices of mark ups and hype markets do suck. Again, of course there are levels to it and there isn't an end of the world if we don't get what we want. More of a shame to me I guess.
> 
> We do share most of the same thinking. I guess I just find retailer practices more egregious than you even though people will still spend that money.


My biggest issue with it is that it's not so much a problem for the hardcore hobbyist (prices are still in a range where if you really want something, most of the knives on the market right now are still within reach), but it creates a bigger obstacle for getting people into the hobby. The price to entry is significantly higher than it was 5-10 years ago.


ethompson said:


> MSRP for a bottle of Pappy 15 has been $120 for years. I haven’t seen a bottle on the shelf for that price since I was in middle school. Now that I’m old enough and could afford that, it’s not to be found for less than 5-20x msrp. You don’t see me whinging about it on the internet. There is plenty of excellent stuff for me to explore besides.
> 
> Same with knives, maybe the knives that I originally dreamed of are now unattainable for one reason or another, but there are still tons of options to get good thrills. Never been a better time to be a kitchen cutlery consumer IMO





jedy617 said:


> Agreed that there is whining, and now is the best time to be buying chef knives in history. But there are a lot of grumpy people ragging on the guy for whining. Let him whine if it makes him feel better. Hell his friends or family certainly won't care to listen, at least some of us can sympathize lol.


Experience here in Europe might be different due to exchange rates also factoring into this, but I really don't agree that right now is the best time to be a kitchen cutlery consumer. 5-10 years ago the high-end was a lot more accessible price-wise.


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr

Jovidah said:


> My biggest issue with it is that it's not so much a problem for the hardcore hobbyist (prices are still in a range where if you really want something, most of the knives on the market right now are still within reach), but it creates a bigger obstacle for getting people into the hobby. The price to entry is significantly higher than it was 5-10 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Experience here in Europe might be different due to exchange rates also factoring into this, but I really don't agree that right now is the best time to be a kitchen cutlery consumer. 5-10 years ago the high-end was a lot more accessible price-wise.


High end 10 years ago was a boring Shige. Or Kato. Or (God forbid) a Hattori KD

But these day we have custom makers everywhere making unicorns as we speak. High end steels, top HT, crazy Damascus patterns, etc

There were no knives on IG 10 years ago. And KKF was ugly.


----------



## Jovidah

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> High end 10 years ago was a boring Shige. Or Kato. Or (God forbid) a Hattori KD
> 
> But these day we have custom makers everywhere making unicorns as we speak. High end steels, top HT, crazy Damascus patterns, etc
> 
> There were no knives on IG 10 years ago. And KKF was ugly.


I remember thinking those Shigefusa knives seemed quite expensive at 300e...


----------



## blokey

I don't like fancy PM stainless steels, they suck to sharpen and feels weird to me. I'd rather have everything in either Aebl or 52100 instead. (Or Hitachi stuff)


----------



## jedy617

I feel I'm one of the rare one on here that does lol, I think that's plenty popular. I feel like I did a loop. Going into using/collecting I wanted the craziest PM steels. Then I mixed a few carbon in. Then, pretty much exclusive carbon. And now I'm mixing a few more PM steels into the mix lol. They don't feel the best on the stones but I don't mind on my venev.

I am curious with one of the fancy vitrified diamond from BBB, JKI, or upcoming from tosho will feel. But not sure I want to make a $3-$500 investment on one diamond stone.


----------



## Rangen

jedy617 said:


> I feel I'm one of the rare one on here that does lol, I think that's plenty popular. I feel like I did a loop. Going into using/collecting I wanted the craziest PM steels. Then I mixed a few carbon in. Then, pretty much exclusive carbon. And now I'm mixing a few more PM steels into the mix lol. They don't feel the best on the stones but I don't mind on my venev.
> 
> I am curious with one of the fancy vitrified diamond from BBB, JKI, or upcoming from tosho will feel. But not sure I want to make a $3-$500 investment on one diamond stone.


My knives are completely bifurcated:

Kitchen knives: Mostly simple carbon, with some stray SG2 and VG-10
Pocket knives: A festival of trendy steels

For the fancy steels, I've been using the BBB vitrified diamond 1000. Love it. Not only is it very effective, but it makes stainless steels that are otherwise really annoying to sharpen (Hello, ZDP-189) seem easy. And it makes Maxamet, of all things, seem straightforward to sharpen, as though it were like any other steel.

There are fancy steels that are not stainless, and reasonably fun to sharpen. One of the big ones on the hype train now is K390, and I'm on the train. Takes a nice edge, fun to sharpen if you're not comparing to White steel, good edge retention. I'm somewhat surprised it's not showing up much (AFAIK) in the kitchen knife world. I'd imagine it would do pretty well.


----------



## Barmoley

Rangen said:


> My knives are completely bifurcated:
> 
> Kitchen knives: Mostly simple carbon, with some stray SG2 and VG-10
> Pocket knives: A festival of trendy steels
> 
> For the fancy steels, I've been using the BBB vitrified diamond 1000. Love it. Not only is it very effective, but it makes stainless steels that are otherwise really annoying to sharpen (Hello, ZDP-189) seem easy. And it makes Maxamet, of all things, seem straightforward to sharpen, as though it were like any other steel.
> 
> There are fancy steels that are not stainless, and reasonably fun to sharpen. One of the big ones on the hype train now is K390, and I'm on the train. Takes a nice edge, fun to sharpen if you're not comparing to White steel, good edge retention. I'm somewhat surprised it's not showing up much (AFAIK) in the kitchen knife world. I'd imagine it would do pretty well.


K390 in mono is very difficult to deal with from the manufacturing perspective since it is very wear resistant and kitchen knives are huge as compared to pocket knives. If there was an easy source of laminated K390 then it might be different. I've only ever heard of 2 sources of laminated K390 and neither is really available. Even then you need diamond stones and most here will rather buy another $1K gyuto than spend the same on a few diamond stones.


----------



## bahamaroot

Rangen said:


> ...I've been using the BBB vitrified diamond 1000. Love it...


The Better Business Bureau makes vitrified diamond stones?


----------



## sansho

bahamaroot said:


> The Better Business Bureau makes vitrified diamond stones?











1000 Grit Super Vitrified Diamond Waterstone — Triple B Handmade


NEW Ultra premium, high performance sharpening stone. A very hard diamond abrasive at high concentration with a unique Super Vitrified bonding. Dimensions: 200 mm x 70 mm x 20 mm Fast cutting speed Retains flatness Splash & Go, no soaking required Feedback like traditional c




www.triplebhandmade.com


----------



## Heckel7302

Buying fancy knives saves you money!

Owning fancy knives makes you want to cook more and eat out less. If you have a couple people in your family, and eat out one or two times less per week, it would be easy to save about $50 a week. that’s $2500 a year! More than enough for a good knife budget. 

Cutting with fancy knives makes you want to cut more and interesting things. Most of those interesting things are vegetables. So you eat more vegetables. Resulting in a healthier lifestyle which saves on medical bills, long-term.

Suffice to say, spending money on fancy knives is a good financial decision.


----------



## blokey

Heckel7302 said:


> Buying fancy knives saves you money!
> 
> Owning fancy knives makes you want to cook more and eat out less. If you have a couple people in your family, and eat out one or two times less per week, it would be easy to save about $50 a week. that’s $2500 a year! More than enough for a good knife budget.
> 
> Cutting with fancy knives makes you want to cut more and interesting things. Most of those interesting things are vegetables. So you eat more vegetables. Resulting in a healthier lifestyle which saves on medical bills, long-term.
> 
> Suffice to say, spending money on fancy knives is a good financial decision.


I started to buy good cookwares because of this exact reason, now i'm eating like a broke college student.


----------



## esoo

Heckel7302 said:


> Buying fancy knives saves you money!
> 
> Owning fancy knives makes you want to cook more and eat out less. If you have a couple people in your family, and eat out one or two times less per week, it would be easy to save about $50 a week. that’s $2500 a year! More than enough for a good knife budget.
> 
> Cutting with fancy knives makes you want to cut more and interesting things. Most of those interesting things are vegetables. So you eat more vegetables. Resulting in a healthier lifestyle which saves on medical bills, long-term.
> 
> Suffice to say, spending money on fancy knives is a good financial decision.



I buy fancy knives to relieve the stress. Then I have to fight the wife to actually prep a meal. And then I have to fight her to actually cut up ingredients as she wants to help with her dull as sh!t serrated knives.

I'm not sure I'm relieving my stress.


----------



## BillHanna

esoo said:


> I'm not sure I'm relieving my stress.


Buy more knives


----------



## esoo

BillHanna said:


> Buy more knives



Then I get stressed that I'm not using them.


----------



## jedy617

esoo said:


> Then I get stressed that I'm not using them.


This is me. A purge of the collection is imminent.


----------



## M1k3

esoo said:


> Then I get stressed that I'm not using them.


Get more wives to feed?


----------



## esoo

M1k3 said:


> Get more wives to feed?



And that is supposed to be less stressful?


----------



## M1k3

esoo said:


> And that is supposed to be less stressful?


I was just trying to help your "not enough stuff to cut to feed just 2 people" problem.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

esoo said:


> And that is supposed to be less stressful?


Get a couple of dogs and pamper them with cooked meals?


----------



## BillHanna

Start a cooking/sharpening class out of your home? More money for more knives


----------



## MowgFace

MSicardCutlery said:


> Get a couple of dogs and pamper them with cooked meals?


----------



## MSicardCutlery

MowgFace said:


>



I have a cat that looks very similar to that  

But no sushi for her.


----------



## BillHanna

If it’s *80*x210 it’s a big nakiri

If it’s *90*x210 it’s a cleaver 

If it’s *80*x180 it’s a big nakiri

If it’s *90*x180 it’s a small cleaver


----------



## BillHanna

If the handle isn’t all the way up, you (knifemaker) cannot call it a cleaver. 

Source: Bro. I sweartogawd.


----------



## superworrier

BillHanna said:


> If it’s *80*x210 it’s a big nakiri
> 
> If it’s *90*x210 it’s a cleaver
> 
> If it’s *80*x180 it’s a big nakiri
> 
> If it’s *90*x180 it’s a small cleaver


We need this in graph form


----------



## blokey

Makers call those whatever they want, there's actually quite alot double bevelled usuba out there, and there's bunch of Chinese manufacturers call their nakiri mini cleaver.
This one here is labelled nakiri but the kanji on the box is Usuba.








En 165mm Ginsanko Wa-Nakiri


Product Description Detailed Specs Measurements The En Ginsanko series is a thin Ginsanko (stainless) knife with stainless cladding. While not quite as thin as our Gesshin Ginga or Ikazuchi series, they are almost as thin. Ginsanko is a great stainless steel that is generally easy to sharpen and...




www.japaneseknifeimports.com




Tadokoro not only have double beveled Usuba, he actually dose the whole Kamagata usuba/nakiri thing.








鎌型薄刃包丁（関西型） | 田所刃物


まことシリーズ／両刃／鎌型薄刃包丁（関西型）野菜の繊維を崩さず調理できるよう刃は非常に薄く鋭くなっています。刃全体が食材に均等にあたるよう造られていて、大根の桂剥きに適した包丁ともいえます。野菜を切る、きざむ、皮を剥くことを専門とした包丁です。食材を切る中で一番多いのが実は野菜なのです。野菜専用の包丁が欲しい方にはおすすめの１本です。調理をするうえでクオリティーや時短効果も高いので和食の料理人には欠かせない包丁でもあります。※写真の刃渡り；180mm（ひめシリーズ） ■ 長さ（刃渡り）；150mm～240mm■...




www.tadokorohamono-marushin888.com




and this is just whole other thing.


https://a.co/d/66SerVE


----------



## blokey

Not even the worst offense lol








Sugimoto Stainless Steel Large Nakiri (Chuka) 190mm CM4030


Sugimoto History of Sugimoto cutlery can go back to 1830s, started our from a metal smith that specialized in sword and knife making, After World War II Sugimoto was the first to begin producing Western and Chinese-style knives. Sugimoto Cutlery has now become recognized by professional chefs...



knivesandstones.us


----------



## BillHanna

blokey said:


> Not even the worst offense lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sugimoto Stainless Steel Large Nakiri (Chuka) 190mm CM4030
> 
> 
> Sugimoto History of Sugimoto cutlery can go back to 1830s, started our from a metal smith that specialized in sword and knife making, After World War II Sugimoto was the first to begin producing Western and Chinese-style knives. Sugimoto Cutlery has now become recognized by professional chefs...
> 
> 
> 
> knivesandstones.us


I’m not a cleaver, I’m just big boned.


----------



## captaincaed

BillHanna said:


> If it’s *80*x210 it’s a big nakiri
> 
> If it’s *90*x210 it’s a cleaver
> 
> If it’s *80*x180 it’s a big nakiri
> 
> If it’s *90*x180 it’s a small cleaver


Sizing more coffins?


----------



## BillHanna

Coffins for the nonbelievers


----------



## captaincaed

**** it. Have an upvote.


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> If it’s *80*x210 it’s a big nakiri
> 
> If it’s *90*x210 it’s a cleaver
> 
> If it’s *80*x180 it’s a big nakiri
> 
> If it’s *90*x180 it’s a small cleaver


What if it's:

210x80

210x90

180x80

180x90


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> What if it's:
> 
> 210x80
> 
> 210x90
> 
> 180x80
> 
> 180x90


Tall petties


----------



## BillHanna

No. Wait. Cletties. Careful with that first vowel.


----------



## sansho

i'm an idiot who has trouble remembering users without the visual aid of a consistent avatar.

quit changing your avatars.

and if you don't have one, set one.


----------



## captaincaed

sansho said:


> i'm an idiot who has trouble remembering users without the visual aid of a consistent avatar.
> 
> quit changing your avatars.
> 
> and if you don't have one, set one.



Looking at you @M1k3


----------



## superworrier

sansho said:


> i'm an idiot who has trouble remembering users without the visual aid of a consistent avatar.
> 
> quit changing your avatars.
> 
> and if you don't have one, set one.


I’ve been meaning to do this


----------



## sansho

captaincaed said:


> Looking at you @M1k3



lol. he changed it back!

what is your avatar anyways, @M1k3 ?
shinji in food prep hell?

mine's a sһitty, low-res pic of (ripe) sansho. or is it sichuan peppercorn? who knows, who cares.


----------



## Dhoff

sansho said:


> i'm an idiot who has trouble remembering users without the visual aid of a consistent avatar.
> 
> quit changing your avatars.
> 
> and if you don't have one, set one.



Wrong thread mate, now make an unpopular opinion post to make up for it!


----------



## superworrier

sansho said:


> lol. he changed it back!
> 
> what is your avatar anyways, @M1k3 ?
> shinji in food prep hell?
> 
> mine's a sһitty, low-res pic of (ripe) sansho. or is it sichuan peppercorn? who knows, who cares.


Just throw a green filter on it and you got (typical) Sansho


----------



## Matus

Possibly unpopular for some … if anyone thinks, that they can unload whatever they fail to deal with in their life in The Off Topic forum with no consequences, then I have a bad news for you. At some point it gets Too Much Drama, if you get my drift.


----------



## M1k3

LOL


captaincaed said:


> Looking at you @M1k3





sansho said:


> lol. he changed it back!
> 
> what is your avatar anyways, @M1k3 ?
> shinji in food prep hell?
> 
> mine's a sһitty, low-res pic of (ripe) sansho. or is it sichuan peppercorn? who knows, who cares.


I had good reason for changing... but that thread is closed now and I'm choosing to have the 2 people on ignore now.

Someone sitting in dismay with lids that don't fit the cambro.


----------



## sansho

ah yeah. pretty sure that someone is the character IKARI Shinji btw.


----------



## M1k3

sansho said:


> ah yeah. pretty sure that someone is the character IKARI Shinji btw.


They work in the kitchen?


----------



## Matus

If you put people on ignore, then you may miss if they get banned. Just something to consider.


----------



## sansho

M1k3 said:


> They work in the kitchen?



nah

mainly, he pisses and moans an awful lot.
he also molested a coworker once while she was in a coma in the hospital.

oh yeah, and he sometimes pilots giant, cybernetically modified humanoid entities and fights aliens with them.


----------



## DamageInc

All white furniture looks bad.


----------



## sansho

btw i think there are some eps of the show free on youtube if you want to check it out


----------



## BillHanna

@MSicardCutlery is doing it wrong. The knives should be twice as tall, and they seem to have this weird point at the front.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

BillHanna said:


> @MSicardCutlery is doing it wrong. The knives should be twice as tall, and they seem to have this weird point at the front.


One day at a time....


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> @MSicardCutlery is doing it wrong. The knives should be twice as tall, and they seem to have this weird point at the front.


And needs to run them at a higher HRC?


----------



## MSicardCutlery

Anyone know if you can get a concussion from facepalming too hard? Asking for a friend.


----------



## Hockey3081

MSicardCutlery said:


> Anyone know if you can get a concussion from facepalming too hard? Asking for a friend.



No one can know if you “got” a concussion because we didn’t see you face palm.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

M1k3 said:


> And needs to run them at a higher HRC?


Here, was looking for this....


----------



## M1k3




----------



## jedy617

Wow those are some old school crap memes, saving those for the cringe compilation haha


----------



## superworrier

ahshitherewegoagain.jpeg


----------



## jedy617

superworrier said:


> ahshitherewegoagain.jpeg


We aint going anywhere. Me calm. People can say whatever they want. I know Dave locked up the last thread, but I actually stopped responding to anything hours before it got locked. I have found inner peace.


----------



## spaceconvoy

M1k3 said:


>



fixed it


----------



## jedy617

Bullies gonna bully. I'm not going to make fun of any user. You guys can have at me if you feel the need.


----------



## Barclid

There is only one objective right way to do any given thing. If you think it's a matter of preference: you're wrong.


----------



## Naftoor

Cheese and fruit is excellent. Cheese WITH fruit is an abomination. Looking at you Stilton with cranberries or blueberries.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

Naftoor said:


> Cheese and fruit is excellent. Cheese WITH fruit is an abomination. Looking at you Stilton with cranberries or blueberries.


Various fruit cheese-cakes ?


----------



## BillHanna

MSicardCutlery said:


> Various fruit cheese-cakes ?


----------



## tostadas

MSicardCutlery said:


> Anyone know if you can get a concussion from facepalming too hard? Asking for a friend.


Is it considered facepalming if you use a fruit?


----------



## stringer

blokey said:


> and this is just whole other thing.
> 
> 
> https://a.co/d/66SerVE


That looks like a Peking duck knife


----------



## Jovidah

Although I appreciate it as much as the next man, and make it quite regularly myself, I kinda fail to see how carbonara classifies as fancy.
It's simple comfort food posing as something culinary.


----------



## blokey

stringer said:


> That looks like a Peking duck knife


Kind short to be one, they are usually over 8 inches.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

stringer said:


> That looks like a Peking duck knife





blokey said:


> Kind short to be one, they are usually over 8 inches.



I had one of those. It was first dabble into a "Japanese style" knife in that resembled a nakiri but was cheap. 

Not a bad knife actually, I mean for what it is. I thinned it some and it convinced me to dive into the bigger pool. My niece has it now and loves it.


----------



## stringer

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I had one of those. It was first dabble into a "Japanese style" knife in that resembled a nakiri but was cheap.
> 
> Not a bad knife actually, I mean for what it is. I thinned it some and it convinced me to dive into the bigger pool. My niece has it now and loves it.


I gave one I refurbished to my mom. She loves it. I buy them every once in awhile on eBay. They are a nice in-between style for a Chinese cleaver. More versatile than a nakiri, even if less fun. Since they are designed to cut thin slices of the duck breast but be sturdy enough to handle some incidental bone contact. They aren't as good at cutting up veggies, but it works fine, and much better at butchering stuff.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

tostadas said:


> Is it considered facepalming if you use a fruit?



Eesh


----------



## Delat

tostadas said:


> Is it considered facepalming if you use a fruit?



OMG I was laughing so hard while everybody in the audience looked horrified   

Does this mean I’m a sociopath or was it actually funny as h3ll???


----------



## BillHanna




----------



## GeneParmesan

Hockey3081 said:


> I was being a little hyperbolic but in my opinion, he’s not a great guy.


Also the books of Kenji López-Alt are overated. Especially the last book did not live up to the hype. I am honestly surprized about all the positive reviews 'The wok' receives on amazon.


----------



## Michi

GeneParmesan said:


> Also the books of Kenji López-Alt are overated. Especially the last book did not live up to the hype. I am honestly surprized about all the positive reviews 'The wok' receives on amazon.


I take your word for it. I was considering buying the book, but have held off for the time being.

I'm interested in _why_ you say that it doesn't live up the hype. What, in your opinion, are the problems with the book?

I have no agenda here, just curious…


----------



## Ruso

Iron Maiden is overrated.


----------



## captaincaed

Ruso said:


> Iron Maiden is overrated.


You take that back


----------



## esoo

GeneParmesan said:


> Also the books of Kenji López-Alt are overated. Especially the last book did not live up to the hype. I am honestly surprized about all the positive reviews 'The wok' receives on amazon.



I have found some useful information in The Food Lab, but for a book that size, it is poorly laid out and organized. Needs an editor to make it useful.

I was thinking about getting The Wok, but I've heard tell the production value of it is quite poor (crap phtographs, bad layout etc). My local library had it for ebook loan and I NoDRM'ed it. One day I'll read through it and see if the content is of any value.

I tend to stay away from most of the social media platform, so don't know the drama around him. The few recipes I do use of his I like, but I've always had to cut back the salt.


----------



## captaincaed

esoo said:


> I have found some useful information in The Food Lab, but for a book that size, it is poorly laid out and organized. Needs an editor to make it useful.
> 
> I was thinking about getting The Wok, but I've heard tell the production value of it is quite poor (crap phtographs, bad layout etc). My local library had it for ebook loan and I NoDRM'ed it. One day I'll read through it and see if the content is of any value.
> 
> I tend to stay away from most of the social media platform, so don't know the drama around him. The few recipes I do use of his I like, but I've always had to cut back the salt.


I agree the food lab is pretty sparse for the tome that it is. Every time I remember a cool food lab recipe I want to use, I remember it was actually a good serious eats article online. I’m happy I paid for the book since it funds the SE empire, but then I gave it away.


----------



## GeneParmesan

@Michi
Basically what's been said about the foodlab plus a few other things.

- The organization of the book is not very good. I know that if I wanted to look some background information up I would have to search for some time.
- The book does not focus on the wok but rather on american asian cuisine. There is, for example, a chapter on congee. Because, you know, you can make that in a wok. Feels kinda forced.
- There is actually only a little of new information he presents compared to other books. Also since the book does not match the expected focus I found a lot of the information not interesting.
- (The pictures do not look very good; not a real issue for me but )

Here you can at least see the table of content

I won't say that this is bad. But if you are into a book that gives you a condensed, well structured summary of information about techniques to cook with a wok (especially stir-frying) you may will be disapointed.
Please take my information with a grain of salt and decide for your self.


----------



## sansho

curious? grab it from libgen. decide if you like it and then (optionally) buy it.


----------



## sansho

this thread is almost more for venting popular opinions than sharing unpopular ones


----------



## Mlan

sansho said:


> this thread is almost more for venting popular opinions than sharing unpopular ones


How about this. Tall gyutos are overrated


----------



## superworrier

I actually like his second book. There's complaints about poor picture quality but that doesn't really matter to me. The first book I didn't like as much, because as someone said, it's all just stuff that was already on Seriouseats. 
I would say it definitely does have info on cooking (maybe not as much wok specific, but tbh there's not too much to talk about) but it is kind of sprinkled randomly throughout the book.


----------



## superworrier

Mlan said:


> How about this. Tall gyutos are overrated


Weirdest take I saw here was that tall gyutos were for people to disguise their poor knife skills.


----------



## superworrier

A lot of the well-known websites for Asian cooking are not very good. Recipes are often very underseasoned/basic and their strength is probably SEO/pictures more than cooking. The problem is there are so few people doing this that just dumping a ton of basic recipes + basic SEO is enough to be ranked highly.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

sansho said:


> this thread is almost more for venting popular opinions than sharing unpopular ones



You musta' missed my stance on iceberg lettuce. That rattled some cages.


----------



## BillHanna

Mlan said:


> How about this. Tall gyutos are overrated


AND LET THE CHURCH SAY AMEN


----------



## stringer

BillHanna said:


> AND LET THE CHURCH SAY AMEN


If I needed a tall knife I would have just grabbed a cleaver, right @BillHanna?


----------



## tostadas

The correct height for a gyuto is 60mm


----------



## Mlan

tostadas said:


> The correct height for a gyuto is 60mm


Blasphemy!!!


----------



## Duukt

Western handles are more comfortable than Wa handles.


----------



## captaincaed

Anything over 50mm is wasted


----------



## M1k3

captaincaed said:


> Anything over 50mm is wasted


Welp, I'm going to start sharpening on the sidewalk until all my knives are no longer taller than 50mm *cries in cheap Chinese stainless cleaver*


----------



## bahamaroot

Oval handles are more comfortable than octagonal handles.


----------



## JASinIL2006

tostadas said:


> The correct height for a gyuto is 60mm



Just admit that you really want a nakiri or a santoku.


----------



## tostadas

JASinIL2006 said:


> Just admit that you really want a nakiri or a santoku.


The correct dimensions for a nakiri/santoku is 210x90mm. And it should also be rectangular.


----------



## GeneParmesan

sansho said:


> this thread is almost more for venting popular opinions than sharing unpopular ones


This thread should be renamed to 'Popular and unpopular opinions'. Or just 'Optinions!'.


----------



## Naftoor

JASinIL2006 said:


> Just admit that you really want a nakiri or a santoku.



Actually yes though, except santokus don’t seem to get the wild distal taper so crave. Probably why my eye is always drawn it jiros past design, since he basically made a Santoku. Not willing to pay that much for a non-western maker though


----------



## sumis

blade height over 50mm on a gyuto is obviously only to compensate for the lack of something (else).

.


----------



## Bear

tostadas said:


> The correct height for a gyuto is 60mm


63mm on a 260 is perfect, I'm not proud. It's all about comfort.


----------



## jedy617

More tall is more better


----------



## ethompson

functional height is way more complicated than a mm measurement. Regardless, it's all overrated. People who say"ugh, love this knife but wish is was 56mm instead of 53mm because I can't use something that short" are delusional IMO.

On the height issue, I'd rather have a 270 Suji than full size cleaver as my sole use knife. I don't believe in rectangles >185x60 and think the ideal size is 178x55.

I'd also be welling to bet there is at least one TF apologist who has sent a custom knife back to a western maker because it was a couple mm or <10g off spec.


----------



## BillHanna

ethompson said:


> I don't believe in rectangles >185x60 and think the ideal size is 178x55.


----------



## tostadas

sumis said:


> blade height over 50mm on a gyuto is obviously only to compensate for the lack of something (else).
> 
> .


Yea, this one in particular is a bit short


----------



## captaincaed




----------



## BillHanna

tostadas said:


> Yea, this one in particular is a bit short
> View attachment 203969


nice nakiri


----------



## Duukt




----------



## esoo

Duukt said:


> View attachment 203992



Takamura Chromax is better


----------



## Naftoor

Gyuto? Santoku? The world may never know!


----------



## blokey

Naftoor said:


> Gyuto? Santoku? The world may never know!





Naftoor said:


> Gyuto? Santoku? The world may never know!


Thats a just a small cleaver with a weird tip


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Naftoor said:


> Gyuto? Santoku? The world may never know!



Ah. The classic Baluga profile.


----------



## BillHanna

blokey said:


> Thats a just a small cleaver with a weird tip


Not tall enough


----------



## MowgFace

Naftoor said:


> Gyuto? Santoku? The world may never know!


Ahh the OG Masahi profile.

I like to call them
Shachi (Orca, @HumbleHomeCook on brand too!)
Or Gigan-toku


----------



## blokey

Nakiri is just a small cleaver, at least that's what most people in China would call them.


----------



## BillHanna

Cleaverling

Cleaverito 

Cleaverlet


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> Cleaverling
> 
> Cleaverito
> 
> Cleaverlet



I believe the proper term is Ko Cai Dao.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

BillHanna said:


> Cleaverling
> 
> Cleaverito
> 
> Cleaverlet


Clea-tus?


----------



## JASinIL2006

Kitchento?


----------



## Jovidah

esoo said:


> Takamura Chromax is better


Legit curiosity...better how? I assumed they were quite similar?


----------



## esoo

Jovidah said:


> Legit curiosity...better how? I assumed they were quite similar?



As the knives are consistent (as I believe they use templates), I simply think Chromax/A2/SKD12 is a better steel in kitchen knives. Sure it gives up edge retention to SG2/R2, but I find it super simple to sharpen, get wicked edges and gives you that carbon feel. 

All that is said with having owned the Tak Chromax and not having had the R2 (but other knives in SG2) so I may be spewing random inaccuracies


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Who needs thin flimsy petty overated. Thick spine tuff, white steel, most of KU worn off over the years cuz mist it when looks crappy. 

Knives that always look pristine hardly or never used.


----------



## MarcelNL

MSicardCutlery said:


> Clea-tus?


Cleavererette is the only proper word IMHO


----------



## MSicardCutlery

MarcelNL said:


> Cleavererette is the only proper word IMHO


Idk, clea-get has a nice ring to it.


----------



## captaincaed

Seinfeld isn't funny. It's merely amusing.


----------



## esoo

captaincaed said:


> Seinfeld isn't funny. It's merely amusing.



It's not even amusing.


----------



## Barmoley

captaincaed said:


> Seinfeld isn't funny. It's merely amusing.


Take it back, it is hilarious.


----------



## M1k3

Barmoley said:


> Take it back, it is hilarious.


That sounds like a popular opinion to me.


----------



## Barmoley

M1k3 said:


> That sounds like a popular opinion to me.


True, guilty. It just hurt me deeply so I lashed out. I apologize profusely


----------



## spaceconvoy

early seinfeld is only merely amusing, but it becomes actually funny as the characters slowly reveal that they're really just horrible people

actual unpopular opinion: the finale was hilarious and the perfect end to the series


----------



## blokey

Cleaver is better with curved profile.


----------



## tostadas

blokey said:


> Cleaver is better with curved profile.


Even better when the curve is along the spine


----------



## DavidScubadiver

esoo said:


> I buy fancy knives to relieve the stress. Then I have to fight the wife to actually prep a meal. And then I have to fight her to actually cut up ingredients as she wants to help with her dull as sh!t serrated knives.
> 
> I'm not sure I'm relieving my stress.


Consider sharing your knives with her. Maybe stand behind her and guide her hands as she holds the cucumber and knife of your choosing. Soon you will be prepping in harmony and allow her to put your knife in the dishwasher without a word.


----------



## M1k3

tostadas said:


> Even better when the curve is along the spine


@Isasmedjan 🫶


----------



## BillHanna

Sausage and gravy is atrocious.


----------



## BillHanna

BillHanna said:


> Sausage and gravy is atrocious.


Hot. Garbage.


----------



## Naftoor

BillHanna said:


> Sausage and gravy is atrocious.


I feel like sausage gravy is a mixed bag, when done right it’s fantastic. Peppery, salty, savory. When not done right it’s awful. Clumpy, tastes of undercooked flour or nothing at all and under seasoned


----------



## BillHanna

@M1k3 and @Hockey3081 have terrible taste in breakfast food.


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> @M1k3 and @Hockey3081 have terrible taste in breakfast food.


----------



## Vadoche

M1k3 said:


> Welp, I'm going to start sharpening on the sidewalk until all my knives are no longer taller than 50mm *cries in cheap Chinese stainless cleaver*


This gave me abdominal pain from laughing.


----------



## Vadoche

BillHanna said:


> Cleaverling
> 
> Cleaverito
> 
> Cleaverlet


Cleaverito is a proper contender


----------



## blokey

Most mainstream German companies make worse knives than dalstrong


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> Sausage and gravy is atrocious.



I thought I knew you.


----------



## M1k3

Vadoche said:


> This gave me abdominal pain from laughing.


You should get that checked out.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

M1k3 said:


> You should get that checked out.



Could be residual mineral oil.


----------



## blokey

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Could be residual mineral oil.


They usually help with abdominal pain tho.


----------



## enrico l

If I ever move my Yanick, i’m going to make someone buy a knife they don’t want with it. Because, bundle.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

blokey said:


> They usually help with abdominal pain tho.



Life can be complicated my friend.


----------



## blokey

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Life can be complicated my friend.


They did made my life very complicated one time, a spoonful of the stuff and I have to stay up all night or **** the bed.


----------



## M1k3

enrico l said:


> If I ever move my Yanick, i’m going to make someone buy a knife they don’t want with it. Because, bundle.




Do you have some Cutco's you never use? Global's? Or *GASP* Big box store cheapo knives?


----------



## enrico l

M1k3 said:


> Do you have some Cutco's you never use? Global's? Or *GASP* Big box store cheapo knives?


I have a fine serbian cleaver from Instagram with YOUR name on it for one low price…..


----------



## M1k3

enrico l said:


> I have a fine serbian cleaver from Instagram with YOUR name on it for one low price…..


Is it made by @Isasmedjan?


----------



## enrico l

M1k3 said:


> Is it made by @Isasmedjan?


pshhh real knives only


----------



## M1k3

enrico l said:


> pshhh real knives only


----------



## tostadas

enrico l said:


> pshhh real knives only



That meat cutting was amazing


----------



## BillHanna

If your cake needs icing, your cake isn’t good.


----------



## superworrier

enrico l said:


> If I ever move my Yanick, i’m going to make someone buy a knife they don’t want with it. Because, bundle.


I'd really want to see a Yanick + CM bundle go down. Why not throw in a Ryky Limited Edition and Dalstrong Shogun while you're at it too?


----------



## superworrier

Or you can sell it to ma sha...


----------



## enrico l

BillHanna said:


> If your cake needs icing, your cake isn’t good.


I am kidding btw. Probably going to trade it at some point though.

Although I EXTREMELY disagree with your statement. I flipping love icing


----------



## BillHanna

enrico l said:


> I am kidding btw. Probably going to trade it at some point though.
> 
> Although I EXTREMELY disagree with your statement. I flipping love icing


----------



## superworrier

Pancakes merely exist to be syrup sponges

And I'm all for it


----------



## BillHanna

superworrier said:


> Pancakes merely exist to be syrup sponges
> 
> And I'm all for it


Waffles better


----------



## BillHanna

Waffles > French toast > crêpes > pancakes


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> Waffles better



Sausage gravy on biscuits. Now we're talkin'!


----------



## M1k3

superworrier said:


> Or you can sell it to ma sha...


I miss @ma_sha1


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> Waffles > French toast > crêpes > pancakes


Biscuits and gravy > biscuits and gravy > biscuits and gravy > and as always, biscuits and gravy


----------



## BillHanna

Biscuits and honey


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> Biscuits and honey



Yes.


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> Biscuits and honey


Donde esta mantequilla?


----------



## Hockey3081

BillHanna said:


> Biscuits and honey gravy


----------



## McMan

Unpopular opinion:
English muffins are better than biscuits.


----------



## superworrier

McMan said:


> Unpopular opinion:
> English muffins are better than biscuits.


Wrong


----------



## DavidScubadiver

superworrier said:


> Wrong


Meaning it’s a popular opinion?


----------



## Michi

DavidScubadiver said:


> Meaning it’s a popular opinion?


That's the problem with double negatives…


----------



## BillHanna

McMan said:


> Unpopular opinion:
> English muffins are better than biscuits.


I bet that’s a VERY unpopular opinion.


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Donde esta mantequilla?


Option 2


----------



## Michi

BillHanna said:


> I bet that’s a VERY unpopular opinion.


Depends on which side of the pond you are from.

But, honestly, muffins are better


----------



## sansho

i'd probably rather have an average english muffin than an average biscuit, but a really good biscuit wins. i've never had a fancy/'gourmet'/homemade muffin though, so idk.


----------



## Michi

sansho said:


> i'd probably rather have an average english muffin than an average biscuit, but a really good biscuit wins. i've never had a fancy/'gourmet'/homemade muffin though, so idk.


Now, come on @sansho! I was really trying to troll here and start a proper flame war. And all you can come up with is "idk"?

Please, try harder! Otherwise, this thread will never go anywhere near anything interesting


----------



## Naftoor

An English muffin is only as good as what you fill with it. 

A good biscuit is just as good on its own as it is smothered or filled.


----------



## BillHanna

Naftoor said:


> An English muffin is only as good as what you fill with it.
> 
> A good biscuit is just as good on its own as it is smothered or filled.


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> Option 2


Gravy? 🫶


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Gravy? 🫶


Option 0


----------



## Naftoor

Leaked image of the horror unleashed upon @BillHanna

It explains so much 🥹


----------



## BillHanna

Naftoor said:


> Leaked image of the horror unleashed upon @BillHanna
> 
> It explains so much 🥹


g r o s s


----------



## nickw_

Savory biscuits > sweet biscuits.


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> Option 0


No biscuits?


----------



## Hockey3081

BillHanna said:


> g r o s s



Love ya


----------



## BillHanna




----------



## BillHanna

**yelling loudly out the window*

SAUSAGE GRAVY MIGHT NOT BE THAT BAD. WHO DOES NOT LIKE SAUSAGE? AMIRITE?!?!*

*sobs rustily*


----------



## ian

That’s called giving in to peer pressure.


----------



## BillHanna

You can’t fight city hall


----------



## esoo

Naftoor said:


> An English muffin is only as good as what you fill with it.
> 
> A good biscuit is just as good on its own as it is smothered or filled.



An English muffin is a great conveyance device. can't image Eggs Bennie with anything else. That said too many places sell an English muffin that is essentially a round piece of bread.


----------



## tostadas

Is there a difference between what you guys are referring to as "English muffin", and the 2 pieces of cardboard they use as buns for the Egg McMuffin?


----------



## esoo

I can't speak for the US version, but the ones in Canada are actually quite reasonable. 

Now head over to Tim Hortons and you can find a company that make crap muffins.


----------



## Naftoor

tostadas said:


> Is there a difference between what you guys are referring to as "English muffin", and the 2 pieces of cardboard they use as buns for the Egg McMuffin?



As far as I’m aware the McMuffin is considered peak British cuisine, so no I don’t think there’s a difference


----------



## coxhaus

I like both but I don't think I have really had a great English muffin, good but not great. I have had great biscuits I think mainly in the south. I have had great sausage and biscuits only in Arkansas, Tennessee, and South Carolina. I never really had good biscuits and gravy in Texas only biscuits. I think it kind of a south thing more southeast.

My wife says her dad had a great muffin recipe, so she is on the spot to make it for me. I will let you know.


----------



## bahamaroot

Sausage gravy biscuits are a food group in Kentucky.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Biscuits really are nasty. Greasy wheat paste that turns to gum in your mouth. Just eat a few tablespoons of butter instead


----------



## sansho

fuk 3-way electrical switches. i hate it when it's possible for 'up' to not mean 'on'.
looks really bad in a gangbox with a bunch of switches where all of them are off, but one of them is randomly sticking up!!

if you install that crap, it better be for a good reason. those switches better be REALLY far away from each other, and it better be really inconvenient to walk from one to the other.


----------



## sansho

corn tortillas smell like DMT


----------



## MSicardCutlery

sansho said:


> corn tortillas smell like DMT


Like mothballs?


----------



## Bico Doce

sansho said:


> corn tortillas smell like DMT


You don’t enjoy a good street taco?? Damn, this is a legit unpopular opinion.


----------



## sansho

Bico Doce said:


> You don’t enjoy a good street taco?? Damn, this is a legit unpopular opinion.


no, i love the smell of corn tortillas. you misunderstand.


MSicardCutlery said:


> Like mothballs?


not 100% sure. i haven't smelled naphthalene in a long time.
edit: i googled it, and it seems like many people think dmt and naphthalene smell similar, so yes. do corn tortillas smell like mothballs to you?


----------



## Bico Doce

sansho said:


> no, i love the smell of corn tortillas. you misunderstand.


Ah, Im with you. I love a good corn tortilla as well, preferably lathered up in some type of fat


----------



## sansho

welcome to the Snack Zone. about to eat these rn
some pork butt from the smoker with achiote and other seasonings


----------



## Hockey3081

spaceconvoy said:


> Biscuits really are nasty. Greasy wheat paste that turns to gum in your mouth. Just eat a few tablespoons of butter instead



It sounds like you’re eating them before they go into the oven?


----------



## naader

A 1500 dollar knife doesn't actually perform that much better than a 15 dollar one.

Jnats are slower, less efficient and for the *vast majority* of people, inferior for knife edges than a synthetic setup plus a strop.


----------



## sansho

naader said:


> A 1500 dollar knife doesn't actually perform that much better than a 15 dollar one.



no



naader said:


> Jnats are slower, less efficient and for the *vast majority* of people, inferior for knife edges than a synthetic setup plus a strop.



yes


----------



## naader

sansho said:


> no


How much time does that extra 1485 save you lmao


----------



## Jovidah

naader said:


> A 1500 dollar knife doesn't actually perform that much better than a 15 dollar one.
> 
> Jnats are slower, less efficient and for the *vast majority* of people, inferior for knife edges than a synthetic setup plus a strop.


I never used 1500 dollar knives so I can't say too much about those, but I think the difference between 15 dollar knives and... 100 dollar knives is already quite significant. What I'll agree with is that the extra performance from 300 or 400 dollar knives compared to 100 dollar knives isn't as large as that between the 100 and 15 dollar knives.


----------



## Michi

naader said:


> 1500 dollar knife doesn't actually perform that much better than a 15 dollar one.


Wrong thread. That’s a popular opinion.


----------



## coxhaus

Maybe used but a new $15 knife today wouldn't be very good. Even cheap fishing filet knives in the fishing stores cost more than $15 nowadays. Inflation has changed that saying, .... just saying,


----------



## MSicardCutlery

sansho said:


> do corn tortillas smell like mothballs to you?


Plain, sort of. Multigrain, not really.


----------



## ian

Multigrain?


----------



## Jovidah

The corn tortillas I've tried tasted like moldy cardboard... way worse than the more regular fare of flour tortillas with sometimes a bit of corn thrown in. But I have a feeling this has more to do with the atrocious quality available here than being an inherent flaw of corn tortillas.


----------



## Naftoor

naader said:


> A 1500 dollar knife doesn't actually perform that much better than a 15 dollar one.



I would say the cut off for diminishing returns seems to be around 600-700. I used to think it was around 300, until I jumped up the price bracket. My bench mark is a workhorse that can cut like a knife half it’s thickness, because anyone can make a laser that cuts like the devil for cheap (aka takamura). The difference between a mazaki and a markin has been in my experience similar to the difference between a wusthof and a mazaki.


----------



## stringer

sansho said:


> View attachment 205104
> 
> 
> welcome to the Snack Zone. about to eat these rn
> some pork butt from the smoker with achiote and other seasonings


I miss El Milagro. That's what we used when we lived in Chicago and Michigan. 

I haven't seen them since I moved to the east coast.

I miss El Matador tortilla chips too. Some surprisingly good Mexican food in the Midwest.


----------



## M1k3

MSicardCutlery said:


> Plain, sort of. Multigrain, not really.


Multigrain tortillas? You're in the right thread.


----------



## Jovidah

I don't see how you'd make a whole tortilla out of just one grain of corn.


----------



## naader

Jovidah said:


> I don't see how you'd make a whole tortilla out of just one grain of corn.


could be a really small tortilla

or a really big grain of corn


----------



## deltaplex

sansho said:


> View attachment 205104
> 
> 
> welcome to the Snack Zone. about to eat these rn
> some pork butt from the smoker with achiote and other seasonings


Chicago FTW


----------



## EnderzShadow

Rangen said:


> I have never liked kale. I doubt I would like it in any kind of salad whatsoever (too bitter, plus it insists on itself). But I've always suspected that I would probably like it, if it were cooked to softness with some sort of cured pork product containing lots of fat. Bacon, guanciale, salt pork, something. And maybe some vinegar.


That reminds me how my family made collard greens.

You're not missing out on much though. Kale doesn't taste good and despite what you've probably heard it's definitely not healthy.


----------



## zizirex

Vegan restaurant is a rip-off, and most Vegan are either poor or too cheap.


----------



## blokey

zizirex said:


> Vegan restaurant is a rip-off, and most Vegan are either poor or too cheap.


This is definitely a popular opinion, tho I whole heartly agree. To get more people into vegan, the option should be cheaper, not more expensive than their meat counterpart, especially one of the big argument for vegetarian and vegan is lower cost of ingredients.


----------



## Michi

blokey said:


> This is definitely a popular opinion, tho I whole heartly agree. To get more people into vegan, the option should be cheaper, not more expensive than their meat counterpart, especially one of the big argument for vegetarian and vegan is lower cost of ingredients.


Some of the pros here might be able to comment. I was under the impression that the lion's share of costs in a restaurant are not the ingredients, but things such as rent, wages, electricity, insurance, and so on. If that is indeed correct, there is probably not that much reason to have vegan meals that much cheaper than non-vegan ones? (Within reason, of course. Kobe beef or caviar would obviously change that.)


----------



## Jovidah

blokey said:


> This is definitely a popular opinion, tho I whole heartly agree. To get more people into vegan, the option should be cheaper, not more expensive than their meat counterpart, especially one of the big argument for vegetarian and vegan is lower cost of ingredients.


Part of the problem is that a lot of the vegetarian and vegan protein sources _aren't _cheaper than most meats at all... Unless you want to eat pulses and soy all day. The sustainability argument runs into similar problems when you stop comparing everything to beef. It's really hard to beat chicken & eggs when it comes to efficiency and cost.


----------



## ethompson

This year in particular inflation has hit produce much, much harder than proteins. In fact I’ve seen chicken and beef prices at my restaurant fall slightly since January as compared to produce prices which continue to break my heart on a weekly basis.

Producing composed plant based courses with to be more labor intensive than, say, grilling a piece of meat and throwing in a sauce and garnish. Labor is a bigger cost driver for most restaurants than food.

So “they should be cheaper” doesn’t always hold true. Sometimes, but not always.


----------



## Jovidah

Milk prices have more than doubled here over the last year and a half. It's a combination of things. Primarily a rise in demand while production levels have remained stagnant or even somewhat fallen, and certain production costs have gone up significantly (energy and grain prices). It was going on for a while already and then the RU invasion of Ukraine made everything worse. It's most visible in the price of butter, that has doubled in a relatively short time.


----------



## stringer

Extremely thin behind the edge lasers are the best knives for dealing with really hard vegetables like butternut squash. Just slides through like butter.


----------



## Naftoor

Jovidah said:


> Part of the problem is that a lot of the vegetarian and vegan protein sources _aren't _cheaper than most meats at all... Unless you want to eat pulses and soy all day. The sustainability argument runs into similar problems when you stop comparing everything to beef. It's really hard to beat chicken & eggs when it comes to efficiency and cost.



I think another problem is that to make ‘good’ vegetarian food, that is food that appeals to people who aren’t just vegetarians and isn’t just side dishes, from what I’ve seen it takes huge amounts of work on the chefs part.

Think about how much work decent black bean burgers are compared to the real deal, even the cheapest 80/20 ground chuck can make incredible burgers in under a minute flat (time to remove it from the package, loosely form it and smash it in a hot pan with a sprinkle of salt). To make a decent black bean burger STARTS with 15-20 minutes of bean roasting from the recipes I’ve looked at. The best vegetarian food I’ve had (beyond simple roast vegetables) was a Chinese Buddhist restaurant in New York City, they had a number of faux meats on the menu (not the beyond nonsense, seitan based stuff) that when stir fried was almost indistinguishable from the real meat equivalents. Closest thing I’ve ever come to culinary magic, but I can’t imagine the work that went into it compared to just deboning a chicken.


----------



## Barmoley

It's because it is totally unnatural for humans to be vegan.






Ancient Humans Were Apex Predators For 2 Million Years, Study Finds


Paleolithic cuisine was anything but lean and green, according to a study on the diets of our Pleistocene ancestors.




www.sciencealert.com


----------



## blokey

Most Aliexpress knives are not scam, Kamikoto is a scam because they sell $10 420J2 knife for $300 and pretend they worth $1200. AliExpress sell $30 worth of subpar VG10 clone knife for $30, they are not good but not really scam. Some Chinese made mass produce knives are actually very good, just hard to spot them among all the cheap stuff.


----------



## blokey

Barmoley said:


> It's because it is totally unnatural for humans to be vegan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ancient Humans Were Apex Predators For 2 Million Years, Study Finds
> 
> 
> Paleolithic cuisine was anything but lean and green, according to a study on the diets of our Pleistocene ancestors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencealert.com


The Agrarian Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.


----------



## superworrier

blokey said:


> Most Aliexpress knives are not scam, Kamikoto is a scam because they sell $10 420J2 knife for $300 and pretend they worth $1200. AliExpress sell $30 worth of subpar VG10 clone knife for $30, they are not good but not really scam. Some Chinese made mass produce knives are actually very good, just hard to spot them among all the cheap stuff.


Yeah. Also QC issues, but Japanese makers are not immune either. I think AliExpress knives are not a bad budget option for someone who wants hard steel if you go for a semi known one like XinZuo


----------



## superworrier

What’s crazy is paying 100+ for a rebadged one (most knife brands)


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

stringer said:


> Extremely thin behind the edge lasers are the best knives for dealing with really hard vegetables like butternut squash. Just slides through like butter.



k-keanu reeves????


----------



## Barmoley

blokey said:


> The Agrarian Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.


Not at all, but in no way did it make humans vegan.


----------



## blokey

Barmoley said:


> Not at all, but in no way did it make humans vegan.


It's a joke on the Unabomber manifesto.


----------



## Dhoff

Mac and cheese is disgusting as hell.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Dhoff said:


> Mac and cheese is disgusting as hell.


Finally a good unpopular opinion! Crapping on vegetarians is like the most basic thing people do on this forum. Boring


----------



## Dhoff

Oh, and american pancakes are bland 

Just to soften the blow, cheesecakes are great


----------



## blokey

Dhoff said:


> Oh, and amarrican pancakes are bland
> 
> Just to soften the blow, cheesecakes are great


Agree on the pancake part.


----------



## Rangen

Dhoff said:


> Oh, and american pancakes are bland


Not if they contain enough buckwheat.


----------



## M1k3

Dhoff said:


> Oh, and american pancakes are bland
> 
> Just to soften the blow, cheesecakes are great


Ok, now you're out of the "should I ignore them?" pile.


----------



## M1k3

Rangen said:


> Not if they contain enough buckwheat.


No.


----------



## Dhoff

M1k3 said:


> Ok, now you're out of the "should I ignore them?" pile.



phew good. I would hate that, too much fun.


----------



## JASinIL2006

Dhoff said:


> Mac and cheese is disgusting as hell.



Boo! Liar!


----------



## Dhoff

JASinIL2006 said:


> Boo! Liar!



sorry... i know... its worse


----------



## NotAddictedYet

Dhoff said:


> sorry... i know... its worse


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but All Clad pans' handles are awful for home users. It's painful to hold with a bare hand. Might be fine for commercial users who hold with cloth or pad all the time.


----------



## coxhaus

I love my All Clad pans on gas.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Knifewear likes to perpetuate an elitist, exclusive club air. They only want to engage if you buy from them.

Other than Naoto, my experience is most of them really don't know a lot about steel properties, grinds, etc. beyond their product line and even then it's largely superficial but they claim to speak with authority. 

Oh and they charge too much.


----------



## Naftoor

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Knifewear likes to perpetuate an elitist, exclusive club air. They only want to engage if you buy from them.
> 
> Other than Naoto, my experience is most of them really don't know a lot about steel properties, grinds, etc. beyond their product line and even then it's largely superficial but they claim to speak with authority.
> 
> Oh and they charge too much.



Omg yessss. I appreciate the production value of their videos, and they make fun ways to pass the time but some of it just plain incorrect. They had a video on honing rods, that they were (from my understanding of the science behind it and my reading of science of sharp) flat out incorrect in regarding the mechanism. They just dug their heels in claiming that their ceramic sharpening rods aren’t abrasive and therefor don’t remove material.


----------



## NotAddictedYet

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Knifewear likes to perpetuate an elitist, exclusive club air. They only want to engage if you buy from them.
> 
> Other than Naoto, my experience is most of them really don't know a lot about steel properties, grinds, etc. beyond their product line and even then it's largely superficial but they claim to speak with authority.
> 
> Oh and they charge too much.


Yeah I follow their Instagram, sometimes the sales pitch is a bit much. Other NA sellers tends to be much less pushy and shouting buy baby buy at you all the time. If it works tho I guess more power to them.

Sometimes their price is fine, especially if you like the stuff available during their garage sale. Service/shipping is pretty good.


----------



## ethompson

D shaped ho handles are the best


----------



## Bico Doce

If you constantly hit up people asking for more specs, pics, info of a knife for sale and then you ghost the seller after they have responded you are a putz that doesn’t deserve access to BST.


----------



## captaincaed

ethompson said:


> D shaped ho handles are the best


Octagon, but yes Ho is correct


----------



## ethompson

Bico Doce said:


> If you constantly hit up people asking for more specs, pics, info of a knife for sale and then you ghost the seller after they have responded you are a putz that doesn’t deserve access to BST.


This seems like a popular opinion, but yes...


----------



## Bico Doce

ethompson said:


> This seems like a popular opinion, but yes...


I was thinking that it could be but then why do so many people do it?


----------



## ethompson

Bico Doce said:


> I was thinking that it could be but then why do so many people do it?


I think its probably a small subset, but it definitely happens! I also love the people who show tons of interest, take a lot of engagement, then offer half or less of list price...


----------



## Greasylake

ethompson said:


> I think its probably a small subset, but it definitely happens! I also love the people who show tons of interest, take a lot of engagement, then offer half or less of list price...


Hey man I know you're asking 800 but would you take $200 and this baby alligator? He's gonna grow so he's gotta be worth at least 500 for sure


----------



## ethompson

Greasylake said:


> Hey man I know you're asking 800 but would you take $200 and this baby alligator? He's gonna grow so he's gotta be worth at least 500 for sure


If someone offered me an alligator I’d definitely be tempted…


----------



## Heckel7302

ethompson said:


> If someone offered me an alligator I’d definitely be tempted…


There are alligators in Texas, go out and get one! They make lovely fried nuggets.  I'm sure someone close by you has a gun you can use.


----------



## ethompson

Heckel7302 said:


> There are alligators in Texas, go out and get one! They make lovely fried nuggets.  I'm sure someone close by you had a gun you can use.


Oh, I see them weekly haha 

But I want a nice domesticated pet one. Guard gator!!


----------



## Jeff

ethompson said:


> If someone offered me an alligator I’d definitely be tempted…




Would you take a camin ?


----------



## M1k3

Jeff said:


> Would you take a camin ?


I'd take a Kamon.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

You want to keep Ben as a pet? 


M1k3 said:


> I'd take a Kamon.


----------



## M1k3

MSicardCutlery said:


> You want to keep Ben as a pet?


Now that you mention it, a pet knife maker sounds awesome!!


----------



## ethompson

MSicardCutlery said:


> You want to keep Ben as a pet?


----------



## MSicardCutlery

Someone warn his wife....


----------



## Hockey3081

Bico Doce said:


> If you constantly hit up people asking for more specs, pics, info of a knife for sale and then you ghost the seller after they have responded you are a putz that doesn’t deserve access to BST.



Please expound.


----------



## Bico Doce

Hockey3081 said:


> Please expound.


There are a few chronic offenders. Truth is I blame myself. I know it’s going to happen and I should just blow them off but I’m holding on to the fool’s hope that it may be different this time. When it inevitably ends in being ghosted I loathe myself for not having told them to piss off.


----------



## KnightKnightForever

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but All Clad pans' handles are awful for home users. It's painful to hold with a bare hand. Might be fine for commercial users who hold with cloth or pad all the time.


I don't really like my All Clads.. The rivets are just one more thing to keep clean. I like my Demeyre pans and my Falk 10" the best. Nice and clean and efficient cooking tools.


----------



## Jeff

KnightKnightForever said:


> I don't really like my All Clads.. The rivets are just one more thing to keep clean. I like my Demeyre pans and my Falk 10" the best. Nice and clean and efficient cooking tools.



Agreed. 

Copper-Core has a different handle.

I have become used to A-C and the handle does not bother me like it used to.


----------



## Jeff

KnightKnightForever said:


> I don't really like my All Clads.. The rivets are just one more thing to keep clean. I like my Demeyre pans and my Falk 10" the best. Nice and clean and efficient cooking tools.



Re: rivets: 
Heston has flush rivets. Looks nice in the store but on the stove it is still something that needs to be cleaned.


----------



## Barmoley

Bico Doce said:


> There are a few chronic offenders. Truth is I blame myself. I know it’s going to happen and I should just blow them off but I’m holding on to the fool’s hope that it may be different this time. When it inevitably ends in being ghosted I loathe myself for not having told them to piss off.


I feel that the experience teaches you a valuable lesson, whom to deal with and whom not to. Plus as sellers we should provide all the information the buyer asks for. It is rude on the buyer's side to not let seller know if they choose not to buy ofcourse. It also bugs me when the buyer doesn't tell me they received the knife. I have tracking so I know it was dropped off, but it would be nice for a buyer to also let me know. Not a big thing, but still.


----------



## BillHanna

Bay scallops.


----------



## KnightKnightForever

BillHanna said:


> Bay scallops.


 Terrible.


----------



## nickw_

I love my thick copper and tin lined pans. They are naturally non stick and better than stainless lined pans.


----------



## coxhaus

Heckel7302 said:


> There are alligators in Texas, go out and get one! They make lovely fried nuggets.  I'm sure someone close by you has a gun you can use.


I like fried alligator. It tastes like chicken.


----------



## Luftmensch

Jovidah said:


> It's really hard to beat chicken & eggs when it comes to efficiency and cost.








Insects for food and feed







www.fao.org







Surely that is an unpopular opinion


----------



## Jovidah

Luftmensch said:


> Insects for food and feed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fao.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surely that is an unpopular opinion


Personally I'd prefer to feed the insects to the chicken... 
I'm curious how all the... animal friendly people look at this though. They're certainly less cuddly...


----------



## nickw_

Jovidah said:


> Personally I'd prefer to feed the insects to the chicken...
> I'm curious how all the... animal friendly people look at this though. They're certainly less cuddly...



If an animal is not cute, cuddly, or relatable, then I’ve see very few people trying to intervene on their behalf.


----------



## ch_br

Spam is completely unappetizing unless severely doctored to taste nothing like-- well spam.

(apologies to any offended Hawaiian or Korean knife brethren)


----------



## ch_br

BillHanna said:


> Bay scallops.



Mr. Squareman Bill: I retort with ALL Scallops.

I dunno what it is, but my palate hates em. And I love most all seafood


----------



## BillHanna

ch_br said:


> Mr. Squareman Bill: I retort with ALL Scallops.
> 
> I dunno what it is, but my palate hates em. And I love most all seafood


I understand that thought. I could go ahead and never have lobster again. Gimme crab all day. Except my son is allergic.


----------



## Rangen

ch_br said:


> Spam is completely unappetizing unless severely doctored to taste nothing like-- well spam.
> 
> (apologies to any offended Hawaiian or Korean knife brethren)


I remember the first time I encountered spam sushi roll. I was in the basement of a Japanese department store branch in Hawaii, gawking at all the food, and there it was. Labeled something like "Spam Musabi." Slices of roll, chunk of spam inside, thick rice layer, seaweed outside. I think I stood and stared at it for a couple of minutes, trying to tell myself it must be a practical joke.

With the accumulated wisdom of additional years, I have gained some acceptance. I figure if you are going to eat Spam, and I can't think why you would if you could afford food, this might be the way to eat it. Treat it like Marmite/Vegemite, as just a small accent, to add some umami and salt to the thing you are really eating.


----------



## Rangen

Give me all your scallops (both kinds!) and lobster, and I will give you my bluefish and mackerel.

There are other oily fish I like, but these two, especially bluefish, taste like eating random proteins that have been fermenting in a dumpster for 10 days.


----------



## blokey

I prefer western handle over Wa-handle on a Cleaver, tho I like the traditional barrel handle the most.


----------



## BillHanna

blokey said:


> , tho I like the traditional barrel handle the most.


That’s gonna be on my wishlist for customs. We’ll see how many makers are into making a barrel.


----------



## jjlotti

nickw_ said:


> I love my thick copper and tin lined pans. They are naturally non stick and better than stainless lined pans.


Sautéing scallops sure.... Searing steak? ..... Not so much.


----------



## Luftmensch

Jovidah said:


> I'm curious how all the... animal friendly people look at this though.



It is a pretty diverse group!

I am sure most vegans won't eat insects for the same reasons they dont eat other animals. It depends how far down evolutionary tree an individual is willing to consider animal consciousness/pain and welfare thresholds (or other philosophies). I can certainly imagine a large group of vegetarians might consider eating insects. I have met quite a few vegetarians who are happy to cross a threshold... be it honey, eggs, dairy, leather, seafood. Why not add bugs?

I also get the impression many hipsters are trying to eat less meat. I am one of those virtue signalers. I think treating meat as an infrequent treat is a well balanced compromise of philosophies (enjoying life's pleasures, animal welfare and environmental concerns). I certainly have no qualms about eating processed insects. I imagine many others in the 'less meat' category would feel similarly.

I doubt I will ever go full vegan. But the day they make good and cheap artificial milk is the day I _might_ consider it.


----------



## SwampDonkey

KnightKnightForever said:


> I don't really like my All Clads.. The rivets are just one more thing to keep clean. I like my Demeyre pans and my Falk 10" the best. Nice and clean and efficient cooking tools.


I've never really jived with my All-Clads either, at least the skillet and saute pans. My well-seasoned Lodge cast irons outperform them and are way more nonstick. The best of all worlds is Staub's Perfect Pan, once I got that I don't even touch my All-Clads.


----------



## spaceconvoy

spam musubis are good though. there's something about the spam flavor that pairs really well with the nori

also don't forget our okinawan spam loving brethren


----------



## M1k3

Spam Loco Moco is da bomb! Fight me!


----------



## bahamaroot

The first time my brother served me Spam off the smoker he made a believer out of me. And the handles on my All-Clad suck too....


----------



## blokey

All clad really need to step up their game since their patent expired, D7 and MC line were pretty good but discontinued. On the lower end you got stuff like Tramontina and Cusinart MCP that perform on par with D3 and D5, on the higher end Demeyere and stuff like William Sonoma Thermoclad simply have more useful feature to home cooks.


----------



## esoo

I've got some of the Zwilling Sol II pots that are fully clad. No complaints at all. 

The D3 handles are junk.


----------



## Jovidah

Honestly I'm not enthusiastic about the Demeyere handles either. Really made me hold off on buying them. Too small, too round.


----------



## btbyrd

I like the handles on my All Clads.


----------



## nickw_

jjlotti said:


> Sautéing scallops sure.... Searing steak? ..... Not so much.



If searing steak, I use cast iron or carbon steel.


----------



## Greasylake

There are no single bevel gyutos, only mioroshi deba


----------



## esoo

Greasylake said:


> There are no single bevel gyutos, only mioroshi deba



There are no single bevel gyuto, just yanigaba that weren’t forged properly.


----------



## M1k3

Greasylake said:


> There are no single bevel gyutos, only mioroshi deba





esoo said:


> There are no single bevel gyuto, just yanigaba that weren’t forged properly.











Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan Hon Kasumi Series Gingami No.3 Wa Gyuto (Single Bevel Edge, 210mm to 270mm, 3 sizes)


Top-ranking forge-smiths, sharpeners and craftsmen in Sakai City are working together to make Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan quality Wa Gyuto knives absolutely perfect!




japanesechefsknife.com


----------



## Naftoor

esoo said:


> There are no single bevel gyuto, just yanigaba that weren’t forged properly.



There are no single bevel knives. Only actual knives an old Japanese craftsmen fell asleep making and forgot to put a second bevel on


----------



## M1k3

Naftoor said:


> There are no single bevel knives. Only actual knives an old Japanese craftsmen fell asleep making and forgot to put a second bevel on


----------



## sansho

follow
 read

 drop
 release
 come out

 dm
 pm

 "NKD"

 on accident
 by accident

 discord
 irc

 mobile clients
 "mobile first"
 mobile-last design philosophy -- my websites intentionally break on mobile web browsers 

 fb
 ig
 twitter
 reddit
 tiktok
 independently owned special interest forums without network effects (like kkf)


----------



## Luftmensch

irregardless
 regardless
 irrespective


----------



## BillHanna

Hey y’all. 

For the sake of clarity. 


ALLLLLLLLLLLL gravy is garbage.


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> Hey y’all.
> 
> For the sake of clarity.
> 
> 
> ALLLLLLLLLLLL gravy is garbage.


Even 'red eye'?


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Even 'red eye'?


Coffee is also gärbåjj


----------



## Naftoor

gravy in all forms is amazing, because gravy is just a variety of French sauces if they were instead developed where it’s best not to ask if a couple is related.


----------



## BillHanna

Frosting is gross, too. Just add more butter to the cake.


----------



## ian




----------



## BillHanna

Dawg. That ain’t gravy. For the purposes of the opinion, gravy contains animal fat.


----------



## Rangen

BillHanna said:


> Dawg. That ain’t gravy. For the purposes of the opinion, gravy contains animal fat.


Things that don't contain animal fat should be cooked in animal fat.


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> Dawg. That ain’t gravy. For the purposes of the opinion, gravy contains animal fat.


Bet you wouldn't say that with Nana hitting you with a wooden spoon!


----------



## esoo

BillHanna said:


> Dawg. That ain’t gravy. For the purposes of the opinion, gravy contains animal fat.


Gravy is made from pan drippings. 

Everything else is sauce.


----------



## ethompson

BillHanna said:


> Coffee is also gärbåjj


You, sir, are crossing lines!!


----------



## MSicardCutlery

ethompson said:


> You, sir, are crossing lines!!


Here here!


----------



## nickw_

Light roast coffee is the best. The lighter the better. 

If you like dark roast coffee, you probably also like well done steak and burnt toast, and/or don't know any better.


----------



## sumis

nickw_ said:


> Light roast coffee is the best. The lighter the better.



yes, there’s absolutely a place for tea in this world. 

.


----------



## Bear

nickw_ said:


> Light roast coffee is the best. The lighter the better.
> 
> If you like dark roast coffee, you probably also like well done steak and burnt toast, and/or don't know any better.


 No burnt rubber


----------



## ian

nickw_ said:


> Light roast coffee is the best. The lighter the better.



I will send you some ground raw beans. Heh, is this really an unpopular opinion? Seems like it’s universal among people who like to be seen drinking coffee. 



nickw_ said:


> If you like dark roast coffee, you probably also like well done steak and burnt toast, and/or don't know any better.



On a serious note, I do love the taste of light roast coffee, but I can’t drink it since it sends me into immediate GI distress. Darker roasts can also taste very good, and they’re much easier on my stomach for some reason.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

ian said:


> I will send you some ground raw beans. Heh, is this really an unpopular opinion? Seems like it’s universal among people who like to be seen drinking coffee.
> 
> 
> 
> On a serious note, I do love the taste of light roast coffee, but I can’t drink it since it sends me into immediate GI distress. Darker roasts can also taste very good, and they’re much easier on my stomach for some reason.


Lower acidity.


----------



## ch_br

nickw_ said:


> Light roast coffee is the best. The lighter the better.


Spoken like a true Caffeine fiend. 


The darker the roast (more roast time) the less caffeine the beans have.


----------



## Rangen

nickw_ said:


> Light roast coffee is the best. The lighter the better.
> 
> If you like dark roast coffee, you probably also like well done steak and burnt toast, and/or don't know any better.


It is a complicated business, and I mean the business part literally. 

I agree that coffee roasted to Full City or Full City+ is, for most beans, better than taking them significantly into second crack.

Some coffees take a lighter City roast well, some do not.

If you are going to have stale coffee, coffee that was roasted and then sealed into vacuum bags and kept there for a long time, dark roasts seem to stay tasting mostly the same ("burnt"), while light roasts deteriorate badly.


----------



## mengwong

Have you tried home-made cold brew? I used to set up a Clever overnight in the fridge, ready in the morning.


----------



## Dan-

Gravy is just integral pan sauce. Clever is still plastic and therefore a terrible choice for coffee. Dunkin’ Donuts coffee tastes like coffee tea mixed with cigarette ash. Their donuts taste like they were made in China and shipped over in a container. Anyone who owns a cat other than to kill vermin is immediately suspect.


----------



## ethompson

Dan- said:


> Anyone who owns a cat other than to kill vermin is immediately suspect.


You clearly don’t understand how this works. Cats own people, not the other way around. My cat would happily feast on your heretical corpse.


----------



## Dan-

more like the toxoplasmosis parasite owns you


----------



## nickw_

sumis said:


> yes, there’s absolutely a place for tea in this world.


Coffee is tea. Roasted cherry pit tea, and it's my favourite. 





Bear said:


> No burnt rubber


Agreed. 
PS: I like your not notNeutral mugs, we run the same set.




ian said:


> I will send you some ground raw beans. Heh, is this really an unpopular opinion? Seems like it’s universal among people who like to be seen drinking coffee.


I have tried making coffee from green beans, and it's different but can be nice. Although grinding green beans is quite difficult. I bent the shaft in an expensive coffee grinder this way....





ch_br said:


> Spoken like a true Caffeine fiend.
> 
> The darker the roast (more roast time) the less caffeine the beans have.



It is often said dark roast has less caffeine, but I believe this has been debunked. The roast doesn't change things, unless you are burning the coffee.

My understanding is that caffeine is relative stable temperature wise until 235°C. Most light roasts start around 196°C, and go to about 225°C for a dark roast.

People do roast coffee darker than this, but beyond 225/230°C the coffee is well and truly burnt. The only way to make this palatable is usually to pump it full of heavy amounts of cream and sugar. Which some people do... So in the case of burnt coffee, then yes, it can have less caffeine.


Edit: Just thinking, if anything light roasts will have slightly less caffeine (<10%) in the final cup of coffee. As when roasting the coffee, the darker you roast the less mass the final yield becomes (compared to starting green weight). Thus 18g of light roast will have less actual beans than 18g of dark roast. Or said another way, volumetrically there will be more coffee in a dark roast. So when brewing according to a ratio (say 16:1, water:coffee), there would end up being more caffeine in the dark roasted cup of coffee once extracted. Simply because you are using a higher number of actual beans when brewing. 




Rangen said:


> It is a complicated business, and I mean the business part literally.
> 
> I agree that coffee roasted to Full City or Full City+ is, for most beans, better than taking them significantly into second crack.
> 
> Some coffees take a lighter City roast well, some do not.
> 
> If you are going to have stale coffee, coffee that was roasted and then sealed into vacuum bags and kept there for a long time, dark roasts seem to stay tasting mostly the same ("burnt"), while light roasts deteriorate badly.


City+ to Fully City is about as dark as I think coffee should ever go, but this is only one mans opinion. Personally speaking, I like roasts in the New England area. However, they are significantly harder to extract well and maintain balance/sweetness. One needs a high quality grinder and experience to do a good job here. Even most high end coffee shops to a pitiful job imho. Which is why I think the current trend is towards medium roasts. They have less origin flavours, but they are far easier to the average coffee geek to extract. As you say, it becomes about business and economics....





mengwong said:


> Have you tried home-made cold brew? I used to set up a Clever overnight in the fridge, ready in the morning.


I have, it's a good way to make bad coffee (ie: hotel coffee) palatable.

But when starting with a high quality light roast coffee, it's not my favorite. I like some acidity in the coffee. That said, you can start to play with something called a hot bloom, which does help imho. I have done this, and you can make a tasty cup.


----------



## tostadas

Rangen said:


> Things that don't contain animal fat should be cooked in animal fat.


Interesting story: had some out of town friends come visit and we went to chinatown to the place where they sell buns. The friend wanted to know if they used pork fat to make some of the buns. The owner was so happy to show us that they did not. Even proudly brought us to the back to point out this great product that they use instead. "We don't use pork fat, we use 'lard!'


----------



## tostadas

Rectangles have 4 sides and 4 corners. Not 3 corners and a round thing. Even my kid with crayons knows this.


----------



## mengwong

tostadas said:


> Not 3 corners and a round thing.


Yo, you got three right angles and one wrecked


----------



## jjlotti

The best option for Thanksgiving in so many ways.....


----------



## Dan-

What are you doing to that turkey that you need a sawzall?


----------



## Dan-

jjlotti said:


> The best option for Thanksgiving in so many ways.....
> View attachment 210245


----------



## Rangen

jjlotti said:


> The best option for Thanksgiving in so many ways.....


Sure, but not if you actually like your relatives.


----------



## tostadas

Rangen said:


> Sure, but not if you actually like your relatives.


Agreed. Angle grinder is better


----------



## jjlotti

My shrubs are emaculate and soest be my turkey.....


----------



## MSicardCutlery

tostadas said:


> Agreed. Angle grinder is better


Chainsaw ?


----------



## tostadas

MSicardCutlery said:


> Chainsaw ?


D. All of the above


----------



## Qapla'

M1k3 said:


> Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan Hon Kasumi Series Gingami No.3 Wa Gyuto (Single Bevel Edge, 210mm to 270mm, 3 sizes)
> 
> 
> Top-ranking forge-smiths, sharpeners and craftsmen in Sakai City are working together to make Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan quality Wa Gyuto knives absolutely perfect!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> japanesechefsknife.com



The only time a gyuto should ever have a Wa handle is if it's a single-bevel gyuto and the blade has urasuki. (Your link is an example of the few cases where a Wa handle on a gyuto is justifiable.)


----------



## M1k3

Qapla' said:


> The only time a gyuto should ever have a Wa handle is if it's a single-bevel gyuto and the blade has urasuki. (Your link is an example of the few cases where a Wa handle on a gyuto is justifiable.)






You should let the Japanese know. Also let TF know he needs to either A) up his yo handle game or B) up his urasaki game.


----------



## nickw_

If you need to saw your turkey, then it's overcooked.


----------



## Qapla'

M1k3 said:


> You should let the Japanese know. Also let TF know he needs to either A) up his yo handle game or B) up his urasaki game.



It was the other way around--Japanese forumites informed me about the matter. From what I understand, Wa handles on a western knife are meant for the weaboo market. I've dug up a few threads so far:






Yo-Deba vs Gyuto


So I have been doing a lot of research. No, really. I have got bookmarks for days. I have probably poured over a hundred hours into researching knives. I see a lot of repeating terminology, such as VG-10 and blue steel, Damascus, hammered finish, and I see brands such as Mac, Global, and Shun...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com









Help ID’ing knife


Hi, does anyone know what the knife on the cover of this book is?




www.kitchenknifeforums.com









Oct/Wa Handle Bread knife recommendations


Looking for an octagon handled bread knife any recommendations would be helpful. I really love these handles on my other knifes we are doing more of our own bread now and my cutting with the western/eruo handles sucks compared to my use of the Wa handles.




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





I can't say about TF though as I have no experience with his knives at this time, though people here have warned me away from his urasuki-bearing knives.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Qapla' said:


> It was the other way around--Japanese forumites informed me about the matter. From what I understand, Wa handles on a western knife are meant for the weaboo market. I've dug up a few threads so far:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yo-Deba vs Gyuto
> 
> 
> So I have been doing a lot of research. No, really. I have got bookmarks for days. I have probably poured over a hundred hours into researching knives. I see a lot of repeating terminology, such as VG-10 and blue steel, Damascus, hammered finish, and I see brands such as Mac, Global, and Shun...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Help ID’ing knife
> 
> 
> Hi, does anyone know what the knife on the cover of this book is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oct/Wa Handle Bread knife recommendations
> 
> 
> Looking for an octagon handled bread knife any recommendations would be helpful. I really love these handles on my other knifes we are doing more of our own bread now and my cutting with the western/eruo handles sucks compared to my use of the Wa handles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't say about TF though as I have no experience with his knives at this time, though people here have warned me away from his urasuki-bearing knives.



People talk about how yo handles came first and then wa, but our too-long absent friend Ken Hash would post drawings and paintings from many many years ago showing the crude Japanese knives of the time having what are essentially wa handles.


----------



## ian

HumbleHomeCook said:


> People talk about how yo handles came first and then wa, but our too-long absent friend Ken Hash would post drawings and paintings from many many years ago showing the crude Japanese knives of the time having what are essentially wa handles.



Isn’t the question about having wa handles on _gyutos_, specifically? I don’t know anything about the history, or the current thoughts of Japanese purists, though.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> Isn’t the question about having wa handles on _gyutos_, specifically?



Fair.


----------



## M1k3

Qapla' said:


> It was the other way around--Japanese forumites informed me about the matter. From what I understand, Wa handles on a western knife are meant for the weaboo market. I've dug up a few threads so far:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yo-Deba vs Gyuto
> 
> 
> So I have been doing a lot of research. No, really. I have got bookmarks for days. I have probably poured over a hundred hours into researching knives. I see a lot of repeating terminology, such as VG-10 and blue steel, Damascus, hammered finish, and I see brands such as Mac, Global, and Shun...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Help ID’ing knife
> 
> 
> Hi, does anyone know what the knife on the cover of this book is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oct/Wa Handle Bread knife recommendations
> 
> 
> Looking for an octagon handled bread knife any recommendations would be helpful. I really love these handles on my other knifes we are doing more of our own bread now and my cutting with the western/eruo handles sucks compared to my use of the Wa handles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't say about TF though as I have no experience with his knives at this time, though people here have warned me away from his urasuki-bearing knives.


Cool. But none of those posts say "a wa handled Gyuto has to be single bevel."


----------



## spaceconvoy

being a purist (about anything really) is the most weeaboo thing of all


----------



## Rangen

Qapla' said:


> The only time a gyuto should ever have a Wa handle is if it's a single-bevel gyuto and the blade has urasuki. (Your link is an example of the few cases where a Wa handle on a gyuto is justifiable.)


Dang, you just hit on the first thing I ask myself when considering a knife purchase: "is the handle _justifiable_?"

I thought I was the only one who did that.


----------



## jedy617

Turkey is overrated

Usually I do a turkey+ prime rib on Thanksgiving, smoking a brisket this go around


----------



## enrico l

jedy617 said:


> Turkey is overrated
> 
> Usually I do a turkey+ prime rib on Thanksgiving, smoking a brisket this go around


I’ve done pastrami brisket, duck, and now this year we are going to do a chipotle turkey with cranberry salsa and jalapeño stuffing. Gotta mix it up from all the traditional stuff 🫠


----------



## jedy617

enrico l said:


> I’ve done pastrami brisket, duck, and now this year we are going to do a chipotle turkey with cranberry salsa and jalapeño stuffing. Gotta mix it up from all the traditional stuff 🫠


Nice! My best turkey was a Peruvian turkey recipe and was actually really solid. Going with a dry brine for the first time this year and doing a honey+orange glaze, anything above mediocre and I'll be happy with. Also first time with a heritage breed


----------



## Dan-

Smoked turkey >>> deep fried turkey

Brined an air chilled one from a local farm in cider and stuff. The brine kinda smelled like a Negroni of all things.


----------



## jedy617

Dan- said:


> Smoked turkey >>> deep fried turkey
> 
> Brined an air chilled one from a local farm in cider and stuff. The brine kinda smelled like a Negroni of all things.


I would do a smoked turkey but my mom doesn't love BBQ so no go. We are doing a compromise, I'm smoking a brisket and roasting a turkey, best I could get


----------



## zizirex

nickw_ said:


> Light roast coffee is the best. The lighter the better.
> 
> If you like dark roast coffee, you probably also like well done steak and burnt toast, and/or don't know any better.


Dark Roast is the only coffee senior people drink, and they drink it with cream and sugar. Just like you see old people on Beans Around The World.

Also, Tim Horton's black coffee is good enough and better than Starbucks.


----------



## Jovidah

Although I think it's good to emphasize there's nothing 'traditional' or 'better' about wa-handles - and that people shouldn't casually pass over yo-handles.... I don't think there's anything inherently wrong about them either. 
They are lighter...and some find them prettier. Nothing wrong with finding a personal preference for them. Knives aren't a religion; no need for dogma.

But I do wish yo-handles and yo-handle knives would get some more attention; these days it seems like wa handle has pretty much become the default choice & recommendation, which is a bit of a shame. 
Even after a few years of using both I still don't have any strong preference either way, but I do have certain use-cases where I find the yo-handle knives simply more practical.


----------



## esoo

The problem with most yo handles is balance. They tend to be heavier than wa, pulling the balance too far back. And this seems to be about design/scale choice as my ZKramers have always balanced at the pinch


----------



## bahamaroot

jedy617 said:


> Turkey is overrated
> 
> Usually I do a turkey+ prime rib on Thanksgiving, smoking a brisket this go around


No, turkey isn't overrated, it just flat out sucks!


----------



## Bear

jedy617 said:


> Turkey is overrated
> 
> Usually I do a turkey+ prime rib on Thanksgiving, smoking a brisket this go around


I usually smoke them, it's just me and my wife today so I'm going to Spatchcock it too, we'll see. To me the best part of a smoked turkey are the sandwich's the next day.


----------



## ethompson

If you think turkey isn’t good you either don’t know how to cook it properly or aren’t buying good enough turkey. Probably both.


----------



## Lars

Turkey is awesome - just think of all the great kebab and mezze dishes they have..!


----------



## ian

Without turkey, there would be no turkey burgers.


----------



## DitmasPork

Many people I've known that hate turkey meat—either haven't had it cooked properly (based on their description); or haven't cooked it properly themselves. 

I dig the craft and ritual of cooking up a whole turkey.

Turkey is just an ingredient—countless ways to cook it.

An Israeli chef I know swears that turkey meat makes some of the best shawarma in Israel.

One of my fave preparations is the classic Turkey in Mole Poblano. Although I'm most nostalgic for the post-Thanksgiving 'turkey jook.'

Below, turkey drumstick awesomeness for noshing.


----------



## stringer

I am pit roasting a chicken in my smoker. I bought sides from my Cafe. Desserts from a local bakery. And a couple dozen oysters. Just four of us celebrating so trying to keep it easy setup and cleanup.


----------



## Rangen

Turkey is...ok. It doesn't taste as good as chicken, but it's not bad. I try to always be the one to cook it, because most of my relatives overcook it. One year, my sister-in-law had difficulties turning the turkey, so she jammed a knife deep into the breast to use as a handle, and left it in.


----------



## labor of love

Jovidah said:


> Although I think it's good to emphasize there's nothing 'traditional' or 'better' about wa-handles - and that people shouldn't casually pass over yo-handles.... I don't think there's anything inherently wrong about them either.
> They are lighter...and some find them prettier. Nothing wrong with finding a personal preference for them. Knives aren't a religion; no need for dogma.
> 
> But I do wish yo-handles and yo-handle knives would get some more attention; these days it seems like wa handle has pretty much become the default choice & recommendation, which is a bit of a shame.
> Even after a few years of using both I still don't have any strong preference either way, but I do have certain use-cases where I find the yo-handle knives simply more practical.


  The only reason I don’t own more yo handled knives is because much of the brands/smiths I’m into don’t seem to offer them. However after seeing that heiji western at strata I might have to reach out.
Shihan outdoor knives have truly magnificent western handles. Would love to beg him for a western gyuto soon.


----------



## Bear

Almost there.


----------



## ch_br

Turkey is the 10th best meat, or further down the list..

Basically only good for thin slicing for sandwiches, not as a featured meat for a dish or meal.


----------



## ch_br

ian said:


> Without turkey, there would be no turkey burgers.


Lol, you're not exactly bolstering you case for turkey here...


----------



## ch_br

stringer said:


> I am pit roasting a chicken in my smoker. I bought sides from my Cafe. Desserts from a local bakery. And a couple dozen oysters. Just four of us celebrating so trying to keep it easy setup and cleanup.


This is the WAY!

Smoked chicken and oysters...

Great choices man!


----------



## ian

ch_br said:


> Lol, you're not exactly bolstering you case for turkey here...


I make no cases! I only state unassailable facts.


----------



## tcmx3

Turkey is fine but I have actually never had a good one that was cooked in an oven.

The real issue though is you're eating Turkey (fine) instead of chicken (extremely good), quail (extremely good), or duck (double secret extremely good)


----------



## DitmasPork

ch_br said:


> Turkey is the 10th best meat, or further down the list..
> 
> Basically only good for thin slicing for sandwiches, not as a featured meat for a dish or meal.


Hmmm, never thought about how’d I rank turkey—I’d probably do this order for proteins:

Fish/shellfish
pork
Beef
Duck
Tofu
Goose
Lamb
Goat
Chicken
Turkey

I love turkey, but there’re others above it—blessed to have the luxury of eating it all.


----------



## Rangen

DitmasPork said:


> Hmmm, never thought about how’d I rank turkey—I’d probably do this order for proteins:
> 
> Fish/shellfish
> pork
> Beef
> Duck
> Tofu
> Goose
> Lamb
> Goat
> Chicken
> Turkey
> 
> I love turkey, but there’re others above it—blessed to have the luxury of eating it all.


Hmmm. I tried to make my own, but it got complicated.

I haven't found goose in the US to compete with those I've had in Hong Kong.

Tofu is a vehicle for the dish it's in, and I find it impossible to rate on its own.

So absent a competing list, I have to find a fortified position in opposition, and it should be unpopular. Here goes:

(young) goat is MUCH better than lamb.


----------



## labor of love

Turducken=San mai poultry preparation and my fave turkey dish.
If you have to have a turkey dish atleast stuff it with other birds that actually taste good.


----------



## DitmasPork

Rangen said:


> Hmmm. I tried to make my own, but it got complicated.
> 
> I haven't found goose in the US to compete with those I've had in Hong Kong.
> 
> Tofu is a vehicle for the dish it's in, and I find it impossible to rate on its own.
> 
> So absent a competing list, I have to find a fortified position in opposition, and it should be unpopular. Here goes:
> 
> (young) goat is MUCH better than lamb.


Yeah, this ain’t a final list—difficult to make one, but gave it a shot.

Goose for me a special treat, love, love, love it, but don’t have it often, cook it only a few times.

Had to include tofu, view it as a protein along with animal flesh—sometimes preferring a dish made from well crafted tofu over a dry aged steak.

Goat easy for me to find in my neighborhood—big Caribbean and Pakistani/Bengali community in my part of Brooklyn. Goat curry galore.


----------



## Rangen

DitmasPork said:


> Yeah, this ain’t a final list—difficult to make one, but gave it a shot.
> 
> Goose for me a special treat, love, love, love it, but don’t have it often, cook it only a few times.
> 
> Had to include tofu, view it as a protein along with animal flesh—sometimes preferring a dish made from well crafted tofu over a dry aged steak.
> 
> Goat easy for me to find in my neighborhood—big Caribbean and Pakistani/Bengali community in my part of Brooklyn. Goat curry galore.


Well of course we all have our own opinions. But I do have a tiny bit of experience to bring to bear on the goat thing: while in Hong Kong, I somehow grew obsessed with mutton curry, to the point of asking a Pakistani tailor who was the proprietor of the store that was selling me a suit. He reacted as though I had asked a very serious question, and spent many minutes answering it, down to just what time of day I should order it for best results.

For the purposes of this discussion, though, the point was that it was _mutton_ curry. I will advocate all day for young goat over lamb. But old goat is a different sort of thing. I should know, being one myself.


----------



## ch_br

ch_br said:


> Turkey is the 10th best meat, or further down the list..
> 
> Basically only good for thin slicing for sandwiches, not as a featured meat for a dish or meal.


My ranking of meat/flesh:

Beef
Chicken
Oysters
Fish (so many types - )
Scrimps, Crab, Lobster
Pork
Lamb
Goat
Bison/Buffalo
Quail
Ostrich
Then there's Turkey (gobble gobble). Which I only eat on sandwiches, thanksgiving, and once a year a turkey leg at the Renaissance faire.


----------



## DitmasPork

ch_br said:


> My ranking of meat/flesh:
> 
> Beef
> Chicken
> Oystera
> Fish (so many types - )
> Scrimps, Crab, Lobster
> Pork
> Lamb
> Goat
> Bison/Buffalo
> Quail
> Ostrich
> Then there's Turkey (gobble gobble). Which I only eat on sandwiches, thanksgiving, and once a year a turkey leg at the Renaissance faire.


Rankings of meat are so darn difficult—like trying to rank the best gyuto—so many variables. If having to make a desert island choice of one type of animal to eat for the rest of my life (excluding fish/seafood), it’ll probably be the pig simply for its versatility. 
I’d not bring a turkey to the island.


----------



## ch_br

DitmasPork said:


> Rankings of meat are so darn difficult—like trying to rank the best gyuto—so many variables. If having to make a desert island choice of one type of animal to eat for the rest of my life (excluding fish/seafood), it’ll probably be the pig simply for its versatility.
> I’d not bring a turkey to the island.



I agree. Completely.

Some days sushi is #1 (actually almost any day). Or I could be seriously craving a curry.

Lol I'm just continuing my ridiculous diatribe about how I only like turkey in small quantities.

Maybe a lifetime of Thanksgivings wore my tastebuds out for gobble gobble flesh.


----------



## blokey

I‘d rather just every one have a Cornish hen than a huge tasteless turkey, there is literally nothing a turkey can do better than chicken, duck or goose apart from cheap.


----------



## blokey

ch_br said:


> My ranking of meat/flesh:
> 
> Beef
> Chicken
> Oysters
> Fish (so many types - )
> Scrimps, Crab, Lobster
> Pork
> Lamb
> Goat
> Bison/Buffalo
> Quail
> Ostrich
> Then there's Turkey (gobble gobble). Which I only eat on sandwiches, thanksgiving, and once a year a turkey leg at the Renaissance faire.


Fish, crab and lobster can so many variations they deserve their own listing.


----------



## ch_br

blokey said:


> I‘d rather just every one have a Cornish hen than a huge tasteless turkey, there is literally nothing a turkey can do better than chicken, duck or goose apart from cheap.


Oh yea 

I knew I was missing one.. I guess I combined Cornish hen and quail in my mind.

Cornish hens are a lot of work (bones) bit great flavor!


----------



## Greasylake

I went to the store earlier this week to buy a turkey, determined to finally cook the bird in a way that I could say I did the ingredient justice... and I left with a duck. Oh well, we'll get em next year


----------



## Dan-

blokey said:


> Fish, crab and lobster can so many variations they deserve their own listing.


Each fish deserves its own listing if we're talking about turkey. Then all the soy and seitan things, and then the fake meats, and all the vat meats. And ****, mushrooms are practically meat, so we should put those down too, before turkey.

Edit: let's not forget eggs, even turkey eggs.


----------



## spaceconvoy

since apparently this is an unpopular opinion around here: I like turkey


----------



## coxhaus

Me too, I like turkey. Here is one we cooked a few days ago. We went to our neighbors for turkey day, and it was a little dry. It is hard to keep the breast moist.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

spaceconvoy said:


> since apparently this is an unpopular opinion around here: I like turkey



Me too!

Tofu is meh and duck is nasty and goose is worse yet. Farm raised is slightly better than the wild stuff I grew up on but not by much. 

Pheasant, partridge, quail, grouse...now those eatin' birds!

Goat is tricky but my memories of mutton from 40+ years ago have been enough for those 40+ years to keep me away from old goat.

Personally, I wish full-sized turkeys were available all year round.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

coxhaus said:


> Me too, I like turkey. Here is one we cooked a few days ago. We went to our neighbors for turkey day, and it was a little dry. It is hard to keep the breast moist.
> View attachment 210461



Break it down buddy and cook the parts at different times.

I cook the turkey for Thanksgiving and the last couple years my mother in law has insisted on a whole bird for the "Thanksgiving experience" and since she's 81, I've been obliging but it's a suboptimal way of cooking them.


----------



## jedy617

Turkey came out well..brisket still way better


----------



## mengwong

On the opposite end of the planet, we went out to a Teochew restaurant for raw “sashimi” crab in garlic soy vinegar; oyster porridge; crunchy chinese chives; black ink squid sausage; and braised duck. No turkeys were harmed.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

But turkey's a great pre-nap meal...


----------



## Hockey3081

MSicardCutlery said:


> But turkey's a great pre-nap meal...



Because of the tryptophan or because…it’s. so. f’king. boring.


----------



## blokey

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Me too!
> 
> Tofu is meh and duck is nasty and goose is worse yet. Farm raised is slightly better than the wild stuff I grew up on but not by much.
> 
> Pheasant, partridge, quail, grouse...now those eatin' birds!
> 
> Goat is tricky but my memories of mutton from 40+ years ago have been enough for those 40+ years to keep me away from old goat.
> 
> Personally, I wish full-sized turkeys were available all year round.


Duck and goose have a gamey taste even when raised in farm maybe that’s why some people don’t like them. But their meat is just so tender and juicy, from breast to leg every bit is as enjoyable as dark meats on a good chicken. I do have bias tho, coming from a city where duck consumption is probably the highest in the world.


----------



## Justinv

The rotisserie on my grill was broken in with a goose. Yum. Wouldn’t have it any other way.


----------



## tostadas

labor of love said:


> Turducken=San mai poultry preparation and my fave turkey dish.
> If you have to have a turkey dish atleast stuff it with other birds that actually taste good.


LOL omg san mai poultry. Man I wish the people I knew would understand that reference.


----------



## Justinv

tostadas said:


> LOL omg san mai poultry. Man I wish the people I knew would understand that reference.


Isn’t it go mai?
On another note, nickel clad turkey might be good.


----------



## M1k3

Justinv said:


> Isn’t it go mai?
> On another note, nickel clad turkey might be good.


I guess if each chicken and turkey count as 2 layers, yes.


----------



## Justinv

i’m thinking porchetta may be perfect food. Can a turduckin be wrapped in pork belly? Pork belly cladding might be critical for optimal turkey.


----------



## Jovidah

esoo said:


> The problem with most yo handles is balance. They tend to be heavier than wa, pulling the balance too far back. And this seems to be about design/scale choice as my ZKramers have always balanced at the pinch


Yeah if you prefer something really far forward balanced you're out of luck, but I never found the balance on my western knives problematic. The 210s tend to balance at the front edge of the bolster, the 240s and up tend to balance about a centimeter in front of it. Works fine for me. As long as it's not midway down the handle like on my damn Wüsthof! 
I think they might actually be deliberately shooting for that 'neutral' balance. Could be interesting to see what a ho-wood yo-handle would feel like.


labor of love said:


> The only reason I don’t own more yo handled knives is because much of the brands/smiths I’m into don’t seem to offer them. However after seeing that heiji western at strata I might have to reach out.
> Shihan outdoor knives have truly magnificent western handles. Would love to beg him for a western gyuto soon.


It also doesn't really help that 95% of yo handles are all the same looking black pakkawood stuff. Most of them just look so damn boring... In that sense I can't really blame people shopping for a new knife for giving them a pass just based on looks alone.


----------



## labor of love

Justinv said:


> i’m thinking porchetta may be perfect food. Can a turduckin be wrapped in pork belly? Pork belly cladding might be critical for optimal turkey.


yeah just throw out the turkey and make Porchducken.


----------



## labor of love

Jovidah said:


> It also doesn't really help that 95% of yo handles are all the same looking black pakkawood stuff. Most of them just look so damn boring... In that sense I can't really blame people shopping for a new knife for giving them a pass just based on looks alone.


This isn’t a problem for me, even w wa handles ho is usually what I prefer


----------



## Jovidah

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Break it down buddy and cook the parts at different times.
> 
> I cook the turkey for Thanksgiving and the last couple years my mother in law has insisted on a whole bird for the "Thanksgiving experience" and since she's 81, I've been obliging but it's a suboptimal way of cooking them.


Exactly... they don't really sell whole turkeys here, but just like with any other bird I think just dumping it in the oven whole as a ball of flesh & bones without any preparation is just setting yourself up for failure.
I'd either cut it into parts, debone it entirely (turkey galantine anyone?) or spatchcock it.

Oh and on the 'which bird is best' discussion: guineafowl!


----------



## Jovidah

labor of love said:


> This isn’t a problem for me, even w wa handles ho is usually what I prefer


Admittedly this is argueing taste, but IMO even the most basic ho wood + buffalo horn handle already looks a lot more aesthethically pleasing than your basic black pakka yo-handle. 
My gf is the same, at the first sight of wa-handles her condition for any future knife gifts was 'Japanese handle only', just because she's a sucker for the look.


----------



## labor of love

Denka western handle with typical TF finger notch is the most comfortable handle I’ve ever used.


----------



## labor of love

Jovidah said:


> Admittedly this is argueing taste, but IMO even the most basic ho wood + buffalo horn handle already looks a lot more aesthethically pleasing than your basic black pakka yo-handle.
> My gf is the same, at the first sight of wa-handles her condition for any future knife gifts was 'Japanese handle only', just because she's a sucker for the look.


You’re arguing for popular opinions!


----------



## Naftoor

mengwong said:


> Have you tried home-made cold brew? I used to set up a Clever overnight in the fridge, ready in the morning.



I’ll caveat this by saying I’m no coffee snob, I can put folgers through my bonavita and be fine with it if I’m adding cream. But some of my favorite coffee at home was done through warm brew with the sous vide. 150F for 2 hours, then strained and kept in the fridge made a great brew been out of petes beans. Much lower acidity than the drip brewer which made it nice for sipping even without any cream added and easier on the stomach.


----------



## zizirex

Jovidah said:


> Although I think it's good to emphasize there's nothing 'traditional' or 'better' about wa-handles - and that people shouldn't casually pass over yo-handles.... I don't think there's anything inherently wrong about them either.
> They are lighter...and some find them prettier. Nothing wrong with finding a personal preference for them. Knives aren't a religion; no need for dogma.
> 
> But I do wish yo-handles and yo-handle knives would get some more attention; these days it seems like wa handle has pretty much become the default choice & recommendation, which is a bit of a shame.
> Even after a few years of using both I still don't have any strong preference either way, but I do have certain use-cases where I find the yo-handle knives simply more practical.


Yo handle > wa Handle.


Wa Handle is just to please western market.


----------



## blokey

I like wa handle because it’s easier to change it.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Justinv said:


> Isn’t it go mai?
> On another note, nickel clad turkey might be good.


I think it's more like double-warikomi


----------



## DitmasPork

Justinv said:


> i’m thinking porchetta may be perfect food. Can a turduckin be wrapped in pork belly? Pork belly cladding might be critical for optimal turkey.


…then stuffed into a lamb, which is stuffed into a milk fed calf. Think there’s a Roman dish like that.
Dammy.


----------



## M1k3

zizirex said:


> Yo handle > wa Handle.
> 
> 
> Wa Handle is just to please western market.


I wish there were more yo handle options. Like a yo handled Munetoshi.


----------



## esoo

If you hold your knife properly (pinch grip), the only point of the handle is to balance it at the pinch (or maybe just in front of that). Yo vs wa is irrelevant.


----------



## blokey

Here’s the one truly superior handle


----------



## BillHanna

blokey said:


> Here’s the one truly superior handle
> View attachment 210514


pandering will get you _everywhere_


----------



## chefwp

blokey said:


> Here’s the one truly superior handle


In all seriousness, one thing I hate about these is it is too easy to miss drying this nook thoroughly and rust will quickly form.


----------



## tostadas

chefwp said:


> In all seriousness, one thing I hate about these is it is too easy to miss drying this nook thoroughly and rust will quickly form.View attachment 210516


I fill that gap in that area with epoxy. That front is actually the most comfortable part of this design


----------



## chefwp

Justinv said:


> i’m thinking porchetta may be perfect food. Can a turduckin be wrapped in pork belly? Pork belly cladding might be critical for optimal turkey.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

chefwp said:


> View attachment 210545


Further proof that wants a **** gets involved, it's just not as good.


----------



## ian

Luftmensch said:


> irregardless
> regardless
> irrespective



Irregardless of your views on this topic, I must agree, even though the word can be used logically in a sentence.


----------



## Naftoor

Turkey is awful. Turkey soup the day after though, is better than chicken soup.


----------



## Justinv

Leftover turkey gravy goes with eggs. I’m sure of it. Somehow. As long as it doesn’t involve leftover turkey.


----------



## M1k3

Pictures taken inside a car are the best!


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Pictures taken inside a car are the best!


While driving


----------



## ian

BillHanna said:


> While driving



While chopping


----------



## ch_br

spaceconvoy said:


> since apparently this is an unpopular opinion around here: I like turkey


For real: I think you're verging on contrarian! 

Or comedian?


----------



## ch_br

M1k3 said:


> Pictures taken inside a car are the best!



_Only if its @BillHanna taking the pictures though_*.*

Because he's the only one who does it right.

In the background's he's got the windows down, stereo cranked, and maybe on the verge of a single tear, as he serenades his new packages with:

_*"Aaaannnnd IIIIIIIIIIIIIII-IUH Will ALLLLLLLLWAAAAYS Love Yoouuuuuu" *_

By Whitney Houston

At the top of his lungs as he gently caresses the packages between verses.

Go ahead, tell me you can't hear him belting Whitney with this pic:


----------



## BillHanna

ch_br said:


> _Only if its @BillHanna taking the pictures though_*.*
> 
> Because he's the only one who does it right.
> 
> In the background's he's got the windows down, stereo cranked, and maybe on the verge of a single tear, as he serenades his new packages with:
> 
> _*"Aaaannnnd IIIIIIIIIIIIIII-IUH Will ALLLLLLLLWAAAAYS Love Yoouuuuuu" *_
> 
> By Whitney Houston
> 
> At the top of his lungs as he gently caresses the packages between verses.
> 
> Go ahead, tell me you can't hear him belting Whitney with this pic:
> 
> View attachment 211348


The only fuel I need is rectangles. ️


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> The only fuel I need is rectangles. ️



Hey wait, is that a pun?


----------



## coxhaus

Jovidah said:


> Yeah if you prefer something really far forward balanced you're out of luck, but I never found the balance on my western knives problematic. The 210s tend to balance at the front edge of the bolster, the 240s and up tend to balance about a centimeter in front of it. Works fine for me. As long as it's not midway down the handle like on my damn Wüsthof!
> I think they might actually be deliberately shooting for that 'neutral' balance. Could be interesting to see what a ho-wood yo-handle would feel like.
> 
> It also doesn't really help that 95% of yo handles are all the same looking black pakkawood stuff. Most of them just look so damn boring... In that sense I can't really blame people shopping for a new knife for giving them a pass just based on looks alone.


If you hold the Wusthof Classic not with a pinch grip they balance great for me.


----------



## coxhaus

Jovidah said:


> Exactly... they don't really sell whole turkeys here, but just like with any other bird I think just dumping it in the oven whole as a ball of flesh & bones without any preparation is just setting yourself up for failure.
> I'd either cut it into parts, debone it entirely (turkey galantine anyone?) or spatchcock it.
> 
> Oh and on the 'which bird is best' discussion: guineafowl!


I think turkey works great whole. Cooking is no problem. And the gravy you get cooking it whole is great.


----------



## M1k3

ch_br said:


> _Only if its @BillHanna taking the pictures though_*.*
> 
> Because he's the only one who does it right.
> 
> In the background's he's got the windows down, stereo cranked, and maybe on the verge of a single tear, as he serenades his new packages with:
> 
> _*"Aaaannnnd IIIIIIIIIIIIIII-IUH Will ALLLLLLLLWAAAAYS Love Yoouuuuuu" *_
> 
> By Whitney Houston
> 
> At the top of his lungs as he gently caresses the packages between verses.
> 
> Go ahead, tell me you can't hear him belting Whitney with this pic:
> 
> View attachment 211348


Whitney works. So does Def Leppard - Poor Some Some Sugar On Me


----------



## Jovidah

coxhaus said:


> If you hold the Wusthof Classic not with a pinch grip they balance great for me.


But I don't _want _to grab it by the rear end. It's a knife, not a woman... 


coxhaus said:


> I think turkey works great whole. Cooking is no problem. And the gravy you get cooking it whole is great.
> View attachment 211377
> 
> 
> View attachment 211378


Sure it's possible...but it's pretty much opting into 'difficult mode'. Yes, you can get great results this way, but it's basically the hardest method can use... If you can pull it off, great, but it's no surprise that many lesser cooks fail. 
You can get the same jus / gravy when you spatchcok it, but it's much easier to get the internal temperatures properly. 
And if you just debone the whole thing à la Peppin, like he does for a galantine, you just get a giant even thickness boneless slab that you can literally just fry in a pan, and have it coming out absolutely perfect with perfect crispy skin all over. Only complication I see is that chickens and guineafowls already require a 28 cm frying pan, so the turkey probaby comes out bigger than most people can fit in their largest pan, but I think you have just the right copper paella pan for it!


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

coxhaus said:


> I think turkey works great whole. Cooking is no problem. And the gravy you get cooking it whole is great.
> View attachment 211377
> 
> 
> View attachment 211378



To each their own for sure, but break it down into primals, dry brine, and then cook the pieces for different lengths and it comes out excellent. Much easier to control temps. Can run the legs up to180+ but keep the breasts down around 155.

Use the carcass and trimmings for stock to go into the gravy and it will still be outstanding.


----------



## MowgFace

Yeah whenever I don't spatchcock my birds, my best results came from a flip of the bird at some point to not overcook the breasts, or having to make a tinfoil breast plate that i need to remember to remove at somepoint.

Though, I feel like if you prefer the breasts, then you likely eat your meat overcooked anyway


----------



## Jovidah

HumbleHomeCook said:


> To each their own for sure, but break it down into primals, dry brine, and then cook the pieces for different lengths and it comes out excellent. Much easier to control temps. Can run the legs up to180+ but keep the breasts down around 155.
> 
> Use the carcass and trimmings for stock to go into the gravy and it will still be outstanding.


Yeah that's another advantage of dissasembling the bird before cooking; you can turn all the bones & trimmings into stock _before_ cooking and then use that to deglaze whatever drippings you have in the pan. 


MowgFace said:


> Yeah whenever I don't spatchcock my birds, my best results came from a flip of the bird at some point to not overcook the breasts, or having to make a tinfoil breast plate that i need to remember to remove at somepoint.
> 
> Though, I feel like if you prefer the breasts, then you likely eat your meat overcooked anyway


I'm still shaking my head at the western world's insistence of collectively opting for the breasts as the 'meat of choice'. But it suits me; it means the tastier, juicier, and far more forgiving to cook legs end up being the cheaper cut to buy.
If I was asked to prep thanksgiving turkey I'd be tempted to just get a stack of legs and debone them...


----------



## ian

French bread pizza is the worst food on earth.


----------



## jedy617

For me that would be tuna salad...the look...the smell. Just a grey mass of gross smelly mush


----------



## Rangen

ian said:


> French bread pizza is the worst food on earth.


It's probably a bad concept, but I've only had the frozen prepackaged version, which is hardly fair. But...worse than jello containing meat or cottage cheese? Worse then green bean casserole made with Campbell's Cream of Mushroom Soup? Worse than salads made entirely with iceberg lettuce and a few stray thin slices of carrot? It is a tough position you've staked out.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Rangen said:


> It's probably a bad concept, but I've only had the frozen prepackaged version, which is hardly fair. But...worse than jello containing meat or cottage cheese? Worse then green bean casserole made with Campbell's Cream of Mushroom Soup? Worse than salads made entirely with iceberg lettuce and a few stray thin slices of carrot? It is a tough position you've staked out.



You take that last part out!


----------



## Jovidah

It's hard to hate iceberg lettuce when it's basically just crispy water.


----------



## MowgFace

Jovidah said:


> It's hard to hate iceberg lettuce when it's basically just crispy water.


Water I can fork.


----------



## ch_br

ian said:


> French bread pizza is the worst food on earth.



Sir, I have to respectfully disagree...

Its a far second behind creamed spinach tuna casserole with gobs of truffle oil!


----------



## Rangen

Jovidah said:


> It's hard to hate iceberg lettuce when it's basically just crispy water.


I don't hate iceberg lettuce at all. I like it for a bit of crunch in a salad. I especially like it as a wrapper for stir-fries.

But expecting its flavorless watery crunch to carry a dish all by itself runs into serious problems.


----------



## Jovidah

Yeah no disagreement there. But while it's hard to love iceberg lettuce, it's also pretty hard to hate it... Something that's just bland, boring and flavorless isn't really offensive enoguh to be the worst food on earth. Admittedly, neither is French bread pizza...


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Iceberg! King of Lettuce!


----------



## Rangen

ch_br said:


> Sir, I have to respectfully disagree...
> 
> Its a far second behind creamed spinach tuna casserole with gobs of truffle oil!


Truffle oil is the worst ingredient on earth.

I've had would would have been wonderful dishes, like perfectly crisped sweetbreads, ruined by that crap. Now I know to never order anything that has truffle oil.

I like truffles a lot. But truffle oil is disgusting.


----------



## esoo

ian said:


> French bread pizza is the worst food on earth.



Allow me to introduce you to kale.


----------



## ch_br

Rangen said:


> Truffle oil is the worst ingredient on earth.
> 
> I've had would would have been wonderful dishes, like perfectly crisped sweetbreads, ruined by that crap. Now I know to never order anything that has truffle oil.
> 
> I like truffles a lot. But truffle oil is disgusting.



Only one word for this perfect response:


----------



## ch_br

If I even smell truffle oil I tell my wife "I gotta go"

And I peace out... No matter where we are.

Sh*+ is rank!


----------



## Jovidah

I tried truffle oil once. Tasted like a damn gas leak. Never again.


----------



## ch_br

esoo said:


> Allow me to introduce you to kale.



Kale tastes as good as a liter of water, after crossing the Sahara in 50C, when your last drink was 3 days ago...

Compared to truffle oil!


----------



## Dan-

The truffle industry is a big scam. Not just truffle oil, everything


You may be familiar with the truffle oil scam, but everything else you think you know about truffles is probably a lie too.



www.tasteatlas.com


----------



## Dan-

Also kale is delicious if prepared correctly.


----------



## esoo

ch_br said:


> Kale tastes as good as a liter of water, after crossing the Sahara in 50C, when your last drink was 3 days ago...
> 
> Compared to truffle oil!



Considering kale tastes like someone shredded a piece of box board that makes truffle oil pretty bad (I've never had it)


----------



## jedy617

Shame me if you like, but a tiny bit of truffle oil+ parmesan on fries is pretty good. That is one of the only acceptable uses for me. That being said, I do have some olive oil with shaved truffle actually visible inside and not the fake artificial stuff, and it aint bad with a light touch on some stuff.


----------



## Justinv

If lentils are on the menu- order them. They are the best item on the menu.


----------



## M1k3

Rangen said:


> Truffle oil is the worst ingredient on earth.
> 
> I've had would would have been wonderful dishes, like perfectly crisped sweetbreads, ruined by that crap. Now I know to never order anything that has truffle oil.
> 
> I like truffles a lot. But truffle oil is disgusting.











Hákarl - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org













Surströmming - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





I'll take my chances with the truffle oil, thank you very much.


----------



## sumis

M1k3 said:


> Surströmming - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll take my chances with the truffle oil, thank you very much.



Truffle is of course great. Truffle oil, rarely imho. I use a barolo balsamic vinegar reduced with truffle. What's _really_ in it, I dunno really, but it actually tastes and smell like the real deal – not the concentrated bitter taste of many pre fabricated oils.

But **** truffles! The important thing here is: SURSTRÖMMING is delicious awesomeness!

.


----------



## spaceconvoy

The worst dish in the world is actually steak. It tastes good, but should really be an ingredient in something else, not a standalone dish. It's revolting to imagine consuming an entire steak. Truly barbaric


----------



## jedy617

spaceconvoy said:


> The worst dish in the world is actually steak. It tastes good, but should really be an ingredient in something else, not a standalone dish. It's revolting to imagine consuming an entire steak. Truly barbaric


----------



## Rangen

sumis said:


> The important thing here is: SURSTRÖMMING is delicious awesomeness!.


I tried to think of something positive to say about Surstromming, and it is this:

I like how the YouTube videos of people trying Surstromming for the first time are usually clearly labeled as to whether the person vomited or not.


----------



## chefwp

If you are making your BLTs with some other "L" besides iceberg, you're doing it wrong.


----------



## Naftoor

spaceconvoy said:


> The worst dish in the world is actually steak. It tastes good, but should really be an ingredient in something else, not a standalone dish. It's revolting to imagine consuming an entire steak. Truly barbaric



I’m on the opposite end from this. There’s something beautifully primal about picking up a chunk of meat, the exterior freshly charred by the fire, dripping fat and juices from a perfectly pink interior and eating it with your bare hands. My favorite meal was a 64 oz grass fed ribeye from a place in the middle of farmland California. No regrets about ignoring the utensils. 

I also have issues with most veg unless it’s cooked to death in some fashion, so that would explain all of my top foods are meat based…


----------



## Jovidah

spaceconvoy said:


> The worst dish in the world is actually steak. It tastes good, but should really be an ingredient in something else, not a standalone dish. It's revolting to imagine consuming an entire steak. Truly barbaric


Unpopular opinion indeed... 
I somewhat agree with you though. A steak should always be part of a dish also consisting of salt, pepper and butter. Maybe some rosemary, thyme and garlic too, but that's pushing it...


----------



## tally-ho

Horse meat tastes better than beef and is healthier.


----------



## Jovidah

I'm not sure about the healthy part but when it comes to taste I have to admit that even the worst horse I've eaten could challenge some of the best beef.


----------



## chefwp

Jovidah said:


> Unpopular opinion indeed...
> I somewhat agree with you though. A steak should always be part of a dish also consisting of salt, pepper and butter. Maybe some rosemary, thyme and garlic too, but that's pushing it...


I've seen my opinion here change over the years. I remember, very fondly, going to the market with my buddies when we were in our 20s, each of us selecting our giant piece of beef flesh to throw on the grill later, I'd usually opt for a big 'ol porterhouse, and I relished eating the whole damn thing. By the time I was in my mid thirties I said goodbye to those days, and in my 40s when the kids were young, one nice thick NY strip could satisfy my whole family of 4, now that the kids are teens, that might not work out the same way. Presently, a few nice slices of steak is really just a vehicle to enjoy the rosemary demiglace I made to accompany it... However, my oldest friend, who I haven't known very long, but he is about 25 years my senior, still loves to order large steaks when we go out, so there you go... 
Oh well, if you're like me and you find the prospect of consuming a ton of beefsteak in one sitting a bit off-putting, remember recipes like the Thai waterfall beef salad, Nam Tok, are waiting for you to use up your leftovers the next day, you might even enjoy that more.


----------



## Lars

tally-ho said:


> Horse meat tastes better than beef and is healthier.


Someone has a sweet tooth..


----------



## Dan-

Meat should be the side not the main.


----------



## Greenbriel

Jovidah said:


> But I don't _want _to grab it by the rear end. It's a knife, not a woman...


Is this kind of inconsiderate boorish remark an example of another unpopular opinion? Certainly from where I'm sitting. Have some respect dude.


----------



## M1k3

Someone once said "Practice makes perfect."

They didn't say "Endless discussion makes perfect."


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> Someone once said "Practice makes perfect."
> 
> They didn't say "Endless discussion makes perfect."


Measure twice, cut once. 

Ask four times, sharpen once.


----------



## M1k3

BillHanna said:


> Measure twice, cut once.
> 
> Ask four times, sharpen once.


But once it's ask twenty times, sharpen none....


----------



## Hockey3081

BST: 

“If I didn’t already have XYZ, I would buy this.”


----------



## BillHanna

Hockey3081 said:


> BST:
> 
> “If I didn’t already have XYZ, I would buy this.”
> 
> View attachment 211669


Guilty


----------



## More_Gyutos

Hockey3081 said:


> BST:
> 
> “If I didn’t already have XYZ, I would buy this.”
> 
> View attachment 211669


Too popular.


----------



## Jovidah

Greenbriel said:


> Is this kind of inconsiderate boorish remark an example of another unpopular opinion? Certainly from where I'm sitting. Have some respect dude.


It's not disrespectful as long as it's consentual.


----------



## stringer

Soaking soiled pots and pans is almost always an unnecessary waste of time and water that makes it so you have to change the sink water faster and is liable to gum up your plumbing over time. Scrape, scrub, and scour your aluminum and stainless steel cookware.
Scrape all the grease and crap off that you can with a metal scraper so that stuff goes to the trash can and not into your pipes.
Scrub with hot soapy water. Hot soapy water is not sufficient to lift grease, you gotta scrub too to make the stuff work. Read the damn label.
Scour down to shiny polished bare metal with a stainless steel scrubber or a Scotchbrite pad.
Rinse and dry upside down on a rack with plenty of ventilation.
Save some water, save some time, save your pipes. 
Say no to soaking pots and pans.
Say no to greasy sinks and floors and sheet pans.


----------



## Rangen

I do soak, because it makes the scrubbing easier; I've experimented. I don't do it in the sink, though. I do it to the side of the sink (I'm just soaking the inside). 5 minutes with hot water and a bit of Dawn does seem to really help.

Of course it's different for cast iron (that Scotch stainless steel ringlets scrubber is great). I guess I could use that. I'm really cautious with the tinned copper, though; not sure what you'd advocate for that.

Always pour off the grease first, especially since it's lard or tallow or ghee most of the time.


----------



## Dan-

The point of soaking is to hope that someone else will come along and wash them.


----------



## stringer

Rangen said:


> I do soak, because it makes the scrubbing easier; I've experimented. I don't do it in the sink, though. I do it to the side of the sink (I'm just soaking the inside). 5 minutes with hot water and a bit of Dawn does seem to really help.



I am mostly thinking about commercial style equipment. Although I follow the same principles at home. One of my pet peeves is when people throw dirty pots and pans straight into a pot sink full of clean soapy water "to soak" and instantly ruin the sink water.








Rangen said:


> Of course it's different for cast iron (that Scotch stainless steel ringlets scrubber is great). I guess I could use that. I'm really cautious with the tinned copper, though; not sure what you'd advocate for that.


Copper pans, like end grain cutting boards or an atoma 140, is something I have never had the pleasure of experiencing but look forward to trying some day.




Rangen said:


> Always pour off the grease first, especially since it's lard or tallow or ghee most of the time.


This is the real key. Gotta keep the fat out of the drains.


----------



## Dan-

Plus whatever it is sinks to the goddamned bottom of the sink, and I don’t care how tough your hands are, the backs of your upper arms aren’t.


----------



## blokey

Half of my cookwares are carbon steel, soaking would kill them.


----------



## bahamaroot

tally-ho said:


> Horse meat tastes better than beef and is healthier.


But I can't find horse meat at the grocery.


----------



## Naftoor

stringer said:


> Scrape all the grease and crap off that you can with a metal scraper so that stuff goes to the trash can and not into your pipes.


I’ll say, for home cooks an excellent tool for this if you don’t want to scrape up a pan ( and damage your seasoning on your carbon steel) is old hotel room key cards if you’ve ever forgotten to turn them in, or old credit cards. I use last years AAA card for this. It’s the first tool for cleaning any pots or pans since it’s difficult to cause damage with it and has a large flat surface with a thin enough edge to remove most offending material. After that, soap, hot water and non-abrasive sponges on most things. Copper wool since it’s softer than steel if you really need to scour something.

Helps to identify what your offending material is as well, actual food remains or charred food I prefer to remove as soon as possible. If it’s a large amount of oil I prefer to let the pan cook naturally when possible, since it’s easier to scrape the fat in the trash without worrying about a liquid fat finding a tiny hole in the bag somewhere.


----------



## stringer

Naftoor said:


> If it’s a large amount of oil I prefer to let the pan cook naturally when possible, since it’s easier to scrape the fat in the trash without worrying about a liquid fat finding a tiny hole in the bag somewhere.


At work I pour all that stuff right into the heavy duty can liner. At home I save empty glass jars with lids from jam or pasta sauce or whatever. Put the grease in that. And keep it under the sink until it is full then throw it in the trash.


----------



## Heckel7302

stringer said:


> Soaking soiled pots and pans is almost always an unnecessary waste of time and water that makes it so you have to change the sink water faster and is liable to gum up your plumbing over time. Scrape, scrub, and scour your aluminum and stainless steel cookware.
> Scrape all the grease and crap off that you can with a metal scraper so that stuff goes to the trash can and not into your pipes.
> Scrub with hot soapy water. Hot soapy water is not sufficient to lift grease, you gotta scrub too to make the stuff work. Read the damn label.
> Scour down to shiny polished bare metal with a stainless steel scrubber or a Scotchbrite pad.
> Rinse and dry upside down on a rack with plenty of ventilation.
> Save some water, save some time, save your pipes.
> Say no to soaking pots and pans.
> Say no to greasy sinks and floors and sheet pans.


My wife hates this opinion, no matter how much I try to convince her (she hates that too).


----------



## mpier

It’s okay to send disrespectful, condescending and meaningless replies as long as it has a wink  emoji at the end of it.


----------



## M1k3

mpier said:


> It’s okay to send disrespectful, condescending and meaningless replies as long as it has a wink  emoji at the end of it.


----------



## sumis

stringer said:


> Soaking soiled pots and pans is almost always an unnecessary waste of time and water that makes it so you have to change the sink water faster and is liable to gum up your plumbing over time. Scrape, scrub, and scour your aluminum and stainless steel cookware.
> Scrape all the grease and crap off that you can with a metal scraper so that stuff goes to the trash can and not into your pipes.
> Scrub with hot soapy water. Hot soapy water is not sufficient to lift grease, you gotta scrub too to make the stuff work. Read the damn label.
> Scour down to shiny polished bare metal with a stainless steel scrubber or a Scotchbrite pad.
> Rinse and dry upside down on a rack with plenty of ventilation.
> Save some water, save some time, save your pipes.
> Say no to soaking pots and pans.
> Say no to greasy sinks and floors and sheet pans.



^ this this this!

even at home.



Dan- said:


> The point of soaking is to hope that someone else will come along and wash them.



yes.

i have also experimented. even done anal a/b tests.
yes, there are cases where soaking are beneficial (for different reasons), but those cases are in a small minority.

.


----------



## M1k3

sumis said:


> even done anal a/b tests.


----------



## esoo

Rainbow Damascus/Cu-mai knives are ugly.


----------



## blokey

esoo said:


> Rainbow Damascus/Cu-mai knives are ugly.


----------



## esoo

blokey said:


>




I can appreciate the first pic where copper is the whole cladding. Just having it as a layer between core and more cladding is ugly.


----------



## MowgFace

M1k3 said:


> Someone once said "Practice makes perfect."
> 
> They didn't say "Endless discussion makes perfect."



I like "Practice makes Permanent."


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

esoo said:


> Rainbow Damascus/Cu-mai knives are ugly.



Agreed.

I also look at copper all day, every day at work so I'll be damned if any of it is going into my kitchen. The latter helps me forget about the former.


----------



## sumis

M1k3 said:


>



yup. what can i say …

.


----------



## ModRQC

sumis said:


> yup. what can i say …
> 
> .


Rephrasing could help.


----------



## Justinv

ModRQC said:


> Rephrasing could help.


Nope. Hard to improve on anal testing in a knife forum.


----------



## MowgFace

I hear #soaking is popular in places like Utah.


----------



## ModRQC

Justinv said:


> Nope. Hard to improve on anal testing in a knife forum.



Discussing an option c to a-b ?


----------



## sumis

ModRQC said:


> Rephrasing could help.


it’s about practice, not language. but sometimes words brings us unexpected gifts, like, from behind.

.


----------



## zizirex

People who only eat chicken breast have no soul.


----------



## jedy617

zizirex said:


> People who only eat chicken breast have no soul.


They have more soul than vegans at least?


----------



## zizirex

jedy617 said:


> They have more soul than vegans at least?


Vegans are HelWalkers


----------



## Justinv

jedy617 said:


> They have more soul than vegans at least?


I’m not sure- are we talking vegans vs people that only eat chicken fingers + fries?


----------



## Dan-

Justinv said:


> I’m not sure- are we talking vegans vs people that only eat chicken fingers + fries?


So people who eat only fries vs people who eat only chicken nuggets and fries? Why are there so many obese “vegans”?


----------



## Bert2368

Sweden stayed in the 30 years war because the food on the continent was better than Swedish cooking?!

-----------

(Quote)


As a part Swede I suspect it was the quest for better meals that kept the Swedish troops in Europe as it seems like everyone but the Norwegians, Finns, and Russians generally cook better than the Swedes. The real thrust may have been to get Italian, French, and Spanish meals rather than the Protestant-Catholic assumptions for the war. An army travels on it’s stomach, not it’s sermons










Why were the forces of Swedish King Gustavus Adolphus so effective in the Thirty Years' War?


Answer (1 of 4): The Swedish army was a product of several military reforms and innovations. The standard formation in use in Europe in those days was based on that used by King Carlos of Spain—the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. His grandmother, Isabella I of Castilla y Léon, had defeated the Musl...




www.quora.com


----------



## sumis

Bert2368 said:


> Sweden stayed in the 30 years war because the food on the continent was better than Swedish cooking?!
> 
> -----------
> 
> (Quote)
> 
> 
> As a part Swede I suspect it was the quest for better meals that kept the Swedish troops in Europe as it seems like everyone but the Norwegians, Finns, and Russians generally cook better than the Swedes. The real thrust may have been to get Italian, French, and Spanish meals rather than the Protestant-Catholic assumptions for the war. An army travels on it’s stomach, not it’s sermons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why were the forces of Swedish King Gustavus Adolphus so effective in the Thirty Years' War?
> 
> 
> Answer (1 of 4): The Swedish army was a product of several military reforms and innovations. The standard formation in use in Europe in those days was based on that used by King Carlos of Spain—the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. His grandmother, Isabella I of Castilla y Léon, had defeated the Musl...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.quora.com



viable hypothesis. good traditional swedish stuff is usually from somewhere else originally anyway. so historically, yes.

not everything though – i grew up on some of the stuff magnus nilsson made world famous by enhancing it at fäviken. kolbulle, nävgröt (finnish, i know), kalvdans … amazing stuff.

and at large, these days, swedes are back with a vengeance when it comes to making great food based on what is at hand around these parts.

.


----------



## ian

I'm not vegetarian, but sometimes I wonder if vegan hate is about "yes, I know what they're doing is better for the world, and that makes me feel bad about my own choices, but I love meat too much to stop eating it, so I'll make fun of vegans." Again, I'm not vegetarian. And I get that when you invite someone over to your house for dinner, it's kinda annoying if they have dietary restrictions.


----------



## Barmoley

ian said:


> I'm not vegetarian, but sometimes I wonder if vegan hate is about "yes, I know what they're doing is better for the world, and that makes me feel bad about my own choices, but I love meat too much to stop eating it, so I'll make fun of vegans." Again, I'm not vegetarian. And I get that when you invite someone over to your house for dinner, it's kinda annoying if they have dietary restrictions.


Vegetarian is one thing and is survivable. Vegan is a whole other phenomenon and is only manageable in a modern well to do society with the technology we have, so not sure it is better for the world since it requires all sorts of supporting industries to exist.


----------



## stringer

Veganism is also an impossible ideal. It is not actually possible in the world we live in. I have many vegan friends and they all recognize that completely avoiding animal products isn't possible. They have made a decision for health or ethics or ecological reasons or whatever to eliminate as much animal products and byproducts from their diet as they can. That is their prerogative and I respect it.

As someone who teaches health and nutrition and culinary classes I preach to people to eat less animal products and more plant foods, vegans just take it a step further, or many steps further. But at the same time, I don't know how far each vegan will take their veganism. So I try not to label things vegan anymore, or I'll put 'vegan friendly', list all of the ingredients, and then let them make their own decision.

For instance I do a non dairy yogurt parfait with oat milk, coconut yogurt, berries, and granola. But I don't label it vegan because the granola I use has honey in it and many vegans won't eat honey because it is a byproduct of bees. Great, so just get rid of honey right? Well if honey is a byproduct of bees then so are pollinated fruits so I would have to get rid of the berries. I'm not going to research every ingredient to it's origin to make sure that they aren't using animal products. But if you do, go ahead. I did my best to provide something without animal products that's thoughtful and tastes good and is healthy. If it's not quite vegan enough, then I will not be offended.

And one time I was trying to make sure that I was using only vegan friendly stuff for a vegan organization event. So I did research on what kind of things I can serve stuff on, cook stuff with, etc. Turns out almost all industrial materials stuff has animal products and byproducts in it. Paper, plastic, glass, steel, wood. At some point in the process animal stuff gets used in the binders, epoxies, glues, dyes, soaps, paints, solvents, clarifying agents, emulsifiers, etc. For basically everything that is manufactured, which is most everything.

So in most ways, I actually am a vegan. Just a highly disillusioned one.


----------



## Dan-

People hate vegans for the same reasons they hate anyone who is sanctimonious. Unfortunately, there are enough obnoxious ones that the good egg-substitutes have been painted with the same brush. 

That said, we've adopted a vegetable-first diet with fish once a week and some other kind of meat once a week. Not like we're going to give up eggs or butter or milk though.


----------



## Lars

sumis said:


> viable hypothesis. good traditional swedish stuff is usually from somewhere else originally anyway. so historically, yes.
> 
> not everything though – i grew up on some of the stuff magnus nilsson made world famous by enhancing it at fäviken. kolbulle, nävgröt (finnish, i know), kalvdans … amazing stuff.
> 
> and at large, these days, swedes are back with a vengeance when it comes to making great food based on what is at hand around these parts.
> 
> .


The Swedish Julbord is pretty awesome too.


----------



## LostHighway

I have no kick against vegans but I do have trouble with both vegetarians and vegans whose diets seem to be based entirely around often highly processed fake meat* and fake dairy products. It is such a narrow perspective.

*I'm not counting tofu, tempeh, mushrooms, legumes, nuts or any of the other food stuffs that are sometimes used to assume, at least to an extent, the role of meat without trying to look like or have the texture of meat as fake meat.


----------



## ian

Barmoley said:


> so not sure it is better for the world since it requires all sorts of supporting industries to exist.



Hmm, not sure I find this convincing. I mean, _everything_ about the way we consume food nowadays requires all sorts of supporting industries to exist. Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought it was uncontroversial that animal farming is an inefficient way to feed people*, and worse for the environment. The fact that veganism wasn’t an option for the pioneers isn’t relevant to whether it’s better or worse for society nowadays.

*Processed fake meat is probably not so great either, so I’m mostly talking about vegetarians/vegans (like my parents) who don’t eat much of those.


----------



## Lars

I'm too greedy to diss on any diet, but this discussion inspired me to put Channa Masala on next weeks meal plan. So on Thursday, around dinnertime, I will be vegan for a little while..


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

ian said:


> I'm not vegetarian, but sometimes I wonder if vegan hate is about "yes, I know what they're doing is better for the world, and that makes me feel bad about my own choices, but I love meat too much to stop eating it, so I'll make fun of vegans." Again, I'm not vegetarian. And I get that when you invite someone over to your house for dinner, it's kinda annoying if they have dietary restrictions.



I don't hate vegans but I also do not think it's better for the world.

There's no free lunch.

Pun thrown in for my buddy @BillHanna.


----------



## Jovidah

ian said:


> Hmm, not sure I find this convincing. I mean, _everything_ about the way we consume food nowadays requires all sorts of supporting industries to exist. Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought it was uncontroversial that animal farming is an inefficient way to feed people*, and worse for the environment. The fact that veganism wasn’t an option for the pioneers isn’t relevant to whether it’s better or worse for society nowadays.


That this has been so uncritically accepted and become a 'mainstream opinion' is arguably the biggest success of the anti-meat lobby. Especially considering the questionable and manipulative usage of numbers, deliberate oversimplification and misrepresentation of sustainability problems and variables, especially when considering the complete picture of an individual's consumption.

In the Netherlands we've seen the anti-meat lobby use round-about ways to try and kill off the meat industry by deliberately creating legal problems around nitrogen emissions. Basically the anti-meat / animal-friendly lobby has shifted tactics to campaigning on environment because it'd get them more traction than focusing on animal cruelty and cuddlyness.
When I still studied social psychology courses the professor who gave my courses was also one of the most vocal people in that anti-meat lobby...and let's just say I recognize a lot of what they've done over the last 10 years.

Although my nr 1 problem, and by far the most dramatic effect of this damn vegan lobby, is that it has resulted in most cookies, puff pastries, etc becoming 'vegan-friendly' and having replaced butter with palm oil crap in almost all products.


----------



## ian

Jovidah said:


> That this has been so uncritically accepted and become a 'mainstream opinion' is arguably the biggest success of the anti-meat lobby. Especially considering the questionable and manipulative usage of numbers, deliberate oversimplification and misrepresentation of sustainability problems and variables.
> In the Netherlands we've seen the anti-meat lobby use round-about ways to try and kill off the meat industry by deliberately creating legal problems around nitrogen emissions. When I still studied social psychology courses the professor who gave my courses was also one of the most vocal people in that anti-meat lobby...and let's just say I recognize a lot of what they've done over the last 10 years.



I mean, ok, but can you point me to some competing evidence? I'm always happy to be convinced that my assumptions are incorrect, but the fact that the anti-meat lobby has been successful doesn't mean they're not right.


----------



## sansho

stringer said:


> But I don't label it vegan because the granola I use has honey in it and many vegans won't eat honey because it is a byproduct of bees. Great, so just get rid of honey right? Well if honey is a byproduct of bees *then so are pollinated fruits* so I would have to get rid of the berries.



haha. wait, so if i pollinate my garden with a qtip, that ѕhit's not vegan anymore since i'm an animal (just like a bee)? is a dish prepared by humans not vegan for the same reason, then? i think this is a hilarious argument that i will definitely keep in my back pocket to troll any obnoxious vegans i may encounter, but where does the madness end?


----------



## Jovidah

sansho said:


> haha. wait, so if i pollinate my garden with a qtip, that ѕhit's not vegan anymore since i'm an animal (just like a bee)? is a dish prepared by humans not vegan for the same reason, then? i think this is a hilarious argument that i will definitely keep in my back pocket to troll any obnoxious vegans i may encounter, but where does the madness end?


The main problem with honey is that many producers will simply kill off most of their bees after harvesting since it's more economical. So commercial honey production often involves a lot of bee killing.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

sansho said:


> .......but where does the madness end?




Right here:





Whats cooking? **** Making something fine and fancy?** Just plain good? Show us!


Hot buns, just out of the oven. And who doesn't like hot buns?




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## Barmoley

ian said:


> Hmm, not sure I find this convincing. I mean, _everything_ about the way we consume food nowadays requires all sorts of supporting industries to exist. Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought it was uncontroversial that animal farming is an inefficient way to feed people*, and worse for the environment. The fact that veganism wasn’t an option for the pioneers isn’t relevant to whether it’s better or worse for society nowadays.
> 
> *Processed fake meat is probably not so great either, so I’m mostly talking about vegetarians/vegans (like my parents) who don’t eat much of those.


I think we need to separate vegan and vegetarian, not the same thing at all. One is maybe possible one is not if we take humanity as a whole. Another issue I have with this is that vegetarianism doesn't automatically mean better for the environment, it can be, but it doesn't have to be so equating the two is wrong and misleading. Cutting down Amazon forest to plant soybeans or rice could be as bad as cutting it down to plant animal feed.


----------



## sansho

Jovidah said:


> The main problem with honey is that many producers will simply kill off most of their bees after harvesting since it's more economical. So commercial honey production often involves a lot of bee killing.



sure, but i'm specifically questioning the claim that pollinated fruit is nonvegan (which i have never heard before), not that honey is nonvegan.

i see some problems with the exploitation of bees (and other animals)... no argument there.


----------



## mengwong

Jovidah said:


> So commercial honey production often involves a lot of bee killing.


I’ll stick to figs and milk, then, nothing objectionable there whatsoever!


----------



## Jovidah

ian said:


> I mean, ok, but can you point me to some competing evidence? I'm always happy to be convinced that my assumptions are incorrect, but the fact that the anti-meat lobby has been successful doesn't mean they're not right.


Not sure if I have the time to write something more expansive with proper sources tomorrow so I'll just throw out the first few things that come to mind in short-form:

-Right now, food is usually only a minority part of people's CO² footprint. So if I use the first 'pro-vegan' numbers I can find right now, whether you're a vegan with a co2 footprint of 1,5 tonnes per year vs the worst possible meat-eater can design at 3,3 tonnes per year isn't a 'gamechanging' difference when the average total co2 footprint is about 16 tonnes of co2.

-Almost all 'meat is bad' comparisons rely heavily on comparing vs beef, which is indeed by far the worst polluter, and massively stacks the deck. When you start looking at fish, eggs & chicken the picture changes drastically. Insects would likely be even better but I think no one wants to go there... But the difference between vegetarian and vegan is actually quite minimal as a result.

-Similarly, most of these comparisons deliberately compare kilograms of product instead of kilograms of protein... while there's still a difference in favor of plant-based proteins, the difference is a lot less dramatic due to the higher protein content in animal products. 

-I have yet to see a comparison that includes 'organic' vs 'industrial / bioindustry' produced meat. Probably because they prefer to hide the uncomfortable truth that _animal-friendlyness_ and _environmental-friendlyness_ are often at odds with eachother. Large scale, industialized produciton with fast-growing breeds is usually significantly more efficient when it comes to resources consumption / CO2. But the fact that these aren't seperated / specified properly is on its own indicative that the numbers are deliberately 'vague', considering there's a significant difference in their footprint.

-There's more to sustainability than just Co²...there's also things like water consumption. And just as an example, a lot of nuts are actually quite horrible at their water consumption. A kilo almonds costs about 16k liters of water. A kilo of cashews 14k. A kilo of chicken? Only 4k.

-As stringer pointed out it's not as simple as 'simply feeding all the soy to people and live happily ever after'. Animal products are in _everything. _Especially in industrial production, everything from head to tail gets used in one way or another. For many of these products the most likely replacement would be a petroleum product, or something artificial with a high co2 footprint. 
Similarly, livestock is often fed with a lot of sub-par products and waste streams that wouldn't otherwise be considered fit for human consumption.


----------



## chefwp

stringer said:


> At work I pour all that stuff right into the heavy duty can liner. At home I save empty glass jars with lids from jam or pasta sauce or whatever. Put the grease in that. And keep it under the sink until it is full then throw it in the trash.


I soak grease up with soiled paper towels, then put them in a big sealed tin I keep in the garage, makes great fire starter for fire pit nights.


----------



## Naftoor

I know a few folks who are vegetarian, and one who is a Jain. Never bothered to ask why they do it, as frankly it’s not my business and as long as they are happy then so be it. There’s definitely a lot of tasty vegetarian foods, but I could never see myself going that route. When I do a vegetarian day, it’s mostly by accident and definitely never vegan. 

I was at my healthiest when I went full on carnivore. Breathing improved due to a huge amount of visceral fat loss. Building muscle in the gym was significantly easier. I never dealt with hunger cramps, even though I was only eating every 2 days (48 hour fast broken by about 2 lbs 80/20 ground beef, 6-8 slices of American cheese and not infrequently some bacon for good measure). Didn’t have to think about food, never worried about eating excessively, brain felt clearer, waking up was easier, digestive system was happier, I didn’t run into issues with blood sugar crashing and energy dropping, fat melted off and muscle piled on, teeth were in the best condition since I grew them. Did that at the start of 2020. 

Went into the pandemic in the best shape of my life, now in my worst. I pretty much can’t tolerate (most) raw vegetables, steamed vegetables are the devils food and while I adore roast vegetables it’s simply too much prep work to get the calories needed out of them. Grains get me fat because my brain doesn’t seem to register satiety from them, even if I mix them with protein or fat to try and trigger it. Digestible carbs including grains wreak havoc on my digestion. 

I’m pretty convinced through my self experimentation humans are meant to be primarily carnivores, with supplementation for micronutrients from vegetables and mushrooms. How that works in a world with too many people I have no idea, but I know it’s the best way for me. Living with a significant other who prefers variety though, and crazy rising food costs have kept me on a more mixed diet.


----------



## Jovidah

sansho said:


> sure, but i'm specifically questioning the claim that pollinated fruit is nonvegan (which i have never heard before), not that honey is nonvegan.
> 
> i see some problems with the exploitation of bees (and other animals)... no argument there.


Yeah don't get me wrong I share your befuddlement... I just wanted to share that there are some valid concerns one could have about eating honey. Maybe it's one of those situations where someone had the right idea but just gave the wrong explanation, I don't know.
If you drew this 'animals were involved in production in one way or another' argument to its logical conclusion you couldn't eat anything considering the role bacteria, worms and other organisms play in soil fertility.


----------



## chefwp

Rangen said:


> I do soak, because it makes the scrubbing easier; I've experimented. I don't do it in the sink, though. I do it to the side of the sink (I'm just soaking the inside). 5 minutes with hot water and a bit of Dawn does seem to really help.


Instead of detergent, try baking soda with the soak water, it really helps loosen the last remaining crud I couldn't scrape into the trash.


----------



## Jovidah

Naftoor said:


> I know a few folks who are vegetarian, and one who is a Jain. Never bothered to ask why they do it, as frankly it’s not my business and as long as they are happy then so be it. There’s definitely a lot of tasty vegetarian foods, but I could never see myself going that route. When I do a vegetarian day, it’s mostly by accident and definitely never vegan.
> 
> I was at my healthiest when I went full on carnivore. Breathing improved due to a huge amount of visceral fat loss. Building muscle in the gym was significantly easier. I never dealt with hunger cramps, even though I was only eating every 2 days (48 hour fast broken by about 2 lbs 80/20 ground beef, 6-8 slices of American cheese and not infrequently some bacon for good measure). Didn’t have to think about food, never worried about eating excessively, brain felt clearer, waking up was easier, digestive system was happier, I didn’t run into issues with blood sugar crashing and energy dropping, fat melted off and muscle piled on, teeth were in the best condition since I grew them. Did that at the start of 2020.
> 
> Went into the pandemic in the best shape of my life, now in my worst. I pretty much can’t tolerate (most) raw vegetables, steamed vegetables are the devils food and while I adore roast vegetables it’s simply too much prep work to get the calories needed out of them. Grains get me fat because my brain doesn’t seem to register satiety from them, even if I mix them with protein or fat to try and trigger it. Digestible carbs including grains wreak havoc on my digestion.
> 
> I’m pretty convinced through my self experimentation humans are meant to be primarily carnivores, with supplementation for micronutrients from vegetables and mushrooms. How that works in a world with too many people I have no idea, but I know it’s the best way for me. Living with a significant other who prefers variety though, and crazy rising food costs have kept me on a more mixed diet.


Although I generally agree with your observation that I feel a lot better when I eat a lot more meat, I think some of the problems you had after switching back to a more conventional diet might simply be because your gut biome was simply not adjusted to it anymore.

My bigger concern though is that right now our understanding of food / diet on health is so incredibly flawed and patchy that it's an incredibly dangerous gamble to make such massive changes to diet (like trying to push everyone into veganism) on a larger scale. The data we have right now is so limited that it's at best one big giant blind experiment.

Like it or not, by nature we are omnivore animals. Not herbivores. A lot of health indicators actually became worse when humans moved from a hunter-gatherer life-style to an agricultural life-style. If you look at research done on hunter-gatherers in the last century they usually found rather meat-heavy diets yet they were completely devoid of all the health problems we see in the west.


----------



## Lars

Jovidah said:


> Like it or not, by nature we are omnivore animals. Not herbivores. A lot of health indicators actually became worse when humans moved from a hunter-gatherer life-style to an agricultural life-style. If you look at research done on hunter-gatherers in the last century they usually found rather meat-heavy diets yet they were completely devoid of all the health problems we see in the west.


And they all lived happily untill they died aged 35.


----------



## Jovidah

Lars said:


> And they all lived happily untill they died aged 35.


Actually this is a myth. _Average_ lifespan might be significantly lower in populations without access to modern medical care due to a far higher ratio of deaths in the early years (this is where modern healthcare has really worked most of its magic) but after you get through that life expectancy is surprisingly decent. The main difference you see in life expectancy is from a difference in access to medical care, not from 'bad diet'.


----------



## ian

Barmoley said:


> I think we need to separate vegan and vegetarian, not the same thing at all. One is maybe possible one is not if we take humanity as a whole. Another issue I have with this is that vegetarianism doesn't automatically mean better for the environment, it can be, but it doesn't have to be so equating the two is wrong and misleading. Cutting down Amazon forest to plant soybeans or rice could be as bad as cutting it down to plant animal feed.



Ya, separating veganism and vegetarianism is smart here. I’m mostly thinking about eating meat vs not eating meat here.

“vegetarianism doesn't automatically mean better for the environment, it can be, but it doesn't have to be so equating the two is wrong and misleading” seems like an evasion though. It’s at least a well posed question whether the average vegetarian taxes the environment more than the average meat eater. And I can also ask “would the world be infinitesimally better off if I just didn’t include meat in my diet, and otherwise ate basically the same way I do now.”





Jovidah said:


> yet they were completely devoid of all the health problems we see in the west.


Wait, so they didn’t get carpal tunnel?

Seems hard to attribute this to diet, given the innumerable lifestyle and environmental differences between hunter/gatherers and modern humans.



Jovidah said:


> Not sure if I have the time to write something more expansive with proper sources tomorrow so I'll just throw out the first few things that come to mind in short-form:
> 
> -Right now, food is usually only a minority part of people's CO² footprint. So if I use the first 'pro-vegan' numbers I can find right now, whether you're a vegan with a co2 footprint of 1,5 tonnes per year vs the worst possible meat-eater can design at 3,3 tonnes per year isn't a 'gamechanging' difference when the average total co2 footprint is about 16 tonnes of co2.
> 
> -Almost all 'meat is bad' comparisons rely heavily on comparing vs beef, which is indeed by far the worst polluter, and massively stacks the deck. When you start looking at fish, eggs & chicken the picture changes drastically. Insects would likely be even better but I think no one wants to go there... But the difference between vegetarian and vegan is actually quite minimal as a result.
> 
> -Similarly, most of these comparisons deliberately compare kilograms of product instead of kilograms of protein... while there's still a difference in favor of plant-based proteins, the difference is a lot less dramatic due to the higher protein content in animal products.
> 
> -I have yet to see a comparison that includes 'organic' vs 'industrial / bioindustry' produced meat. Probably because they prefer to hide the uncomfortable truth that _animal-friendlyness_ and _environmental-friendlyness_ are often at odds with eachother. Large scale, industialized produciton with fast-growing breeds is usually significantly more efficient when it comes to resources consumption / CO2. But the fact that these aren't seperated / specified properly is on its own indicative that the numbers are deliberately 'vague', considering there's a significant difference in their footprint.
> 
> -There's more to sustainability than just Co²...there's also things like water consumption. And just as an example, a lot of nuts are actually quite horrible at their water consumption. A kilo almonds costs about 16k liters of water. A kilo of cashews 14k. A kilo of chicken? Only 4k.
> 
> -As stringer pointed out it's not as simple as 'simply feeding all the soy to people and live happily ever after'. Animal products are in _everything. _Especially in industrial production, everything from head to tail gets used in one way or another. For many of these products the most likely replacement would be a petroleum product, or something artificial with a high co2 footprint.
> Similarly, livestock is often fed with a lot of sub-par products and waste streams that wouldn't otherwise be considered fit for human consumption.



I agree with all of this, and they are definitely good points, but also none of it actually contradicts that the world would be better off if more people were vegetarian. If your point is that there are complicating factors, and that extremism is never the way to go, I agree, but it also seems like there’s some whataboutism going on with a lot of these arguments.


----------



## ian

Heh just realized I’m arguing about the merits of vegetarianism while at the grocery store buying meat.


----------



## Barmoley

ian said:


> Ya, separating veganism and vegetarianism is smart here. I’m mostly thinking about eating meat vs not eating meat here.
> 
> “vegetarianism doesn't automatically mean better for the environment, it can be, but it doesn't have to be so equating the two is wrong and misleading” seems like an evasion though. It’s at least a well posed question whether the average vegetarian taxes the environment more than the average meat eater. And I can also ask “would the world be infinitesimally better off if I just didn’t include meat in my diet, and otherwise ate basically the same way I do now.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, so they didn’t get carpal tunnel?
> 
> Seems hard to attribute this to diet, given the innumerable lifestyle and environmental differences between hunter/gatherers and modern humans.
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, I agree with all of this, but also none of it actually contradicts that the world would be better off if more people were vegetarian. If your point is that there are complicating factors, and that extremism is never the way to go, I agree, but it also seems like there’s some whataboutism going on with a lot of these arguments.


Do you include poultry, fish, seafood in meat eating? If you are specifically talking about not eating beef, pork, lamb, goat, basically mammals, but allow for the rest your argument might be stronger. Once you cross over to not eating any animals, or not eating any animal products and expend it to a large number of humans I am not sure. For one, there are studies and arguments that indicate that this would not be possible at all since we need some of the nutrients found in animal products, so these would need to be synthesized on a massive level. On individual level many things work, some swear by carnivore diets some by vegetarian, etc. in my experience with my friends and family no one got healthier when switching to being a vegetarian. Protein, carnivore diets helped many. This could ofcourse be a coincidence or due to something else. What is clear is that reducing consumption of any type is best for the environment.


----------



## Naftoor

Jovidah said:


> I think some of the problems you had after switching back to a more conventional diet might simply be because your gut biome was simply not adjusted to it anymore.



Hah, I wish. The biggest issue I run into with uncooked veg is tingling lips, some breathing problems and the moment it hits the stomach it feels like swallowing handfuls of broken glass. Likely an intolerance, if not a mild allergy. 

Unfortunately that means I can’t really be the canary in the coal mine regarding the dirt. There’s a few pretty big Reddit communities regarding carnivore/zero carb and it’s benefits. I don’t recommend going there though. I’ve found when it comes to diets, just like politics the extremes of both sides are pretty intolerant. The reddit tend to fill a niche pretty similar to the stereotype of militant vegans which doesn’t do great things for the diets optics.


----------



## miggus

Seeing this classic discussion highlights for me how unusual is to not have come across it until now on KKF.


Jovidah said:


> Like it or not, by nature we are omnivore animals. Not herbivores.


The nature-argument... a tricky one. Is it natural to have central heating and a dentist fixing or replacing rotten teeth? To me, a lot of ideology is involved in discussing about what is natural for a species like humans that has so far evolved into a civilization.

I'd argue that the main point should be if suffering and other types of harm are reduced or increased by certain routes of action. And while there is a ton of different research coming out all the time, very often looking at particular elements that seem contradictory to other studies, the following things seem to be recommendations across the bank:

- No big amounts of refined sugars
- no big amounts of highly processed foods.
- not too many saturated fats
- a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables

And, yeah, not too much meat in general also seems a recommendation that pops up a lot. High quality meat 1-2x a week is almost certainly not harmful per se, sausage every day definitely is. So no, it isn't necessary to go full vegan for a healthy lifestyle.

Of course then, looking at the metrics of suffering and harm, there are the questions about animals' fate and resource consumption. In these regards, meat has a worse track record than plant-based protein. And there is enough evidence now that it is at least possible to satisfy our protein requirements by plants as well. So yeah, if one watches the Earth on a global scale, there seems to be quite a few very good arguments to significantly reduce our meat production and consumption. That doesn't mean we all need to go 100% vegan.


----------



## ModRQC

Whatever the argument this is something hard to digest for a bit of everyone ain't it?

My argument is that in trying to save itself humanity finds causes that allow each and everyone to forget how everything else is also just plain wrong... just for a while.

One rule of thumb to detect such causes is just how it ever only sacrifices what one "leader" (many cells) is willing to sacrifice... if one can ever truly will at that.

The Vegetarian/Vegan argument scales rather severely on that front because it intimately affects how everyone came to love or look at foods... and well typically food comes thrice a day and probably occupies the most of a human life after sleep and work. Shortage of any or both the latter not necassarily downscaling food-related activities/preoccupations. Not counting food related jobs OBVIOUSLY.

But if you're to be honest to God about Nature being your preoccupation - what you really need to do is to abandon most of everything that makes your life around which you've made your habits. Much more DIRE and DIRECTLY affecting sacrifices. Irreversible draining of unplausiby renewable resources stopped. Birthrate limited worldwide. Cities abolished to seeds planted in hope of renewing a better equilibrium. We'd truly probably need to eradicate half of the population up front for it to even work. I'm willing but then who's next to make even two lives readily sacrificed for the sakes of a better humanity?

Then half-problems like food/world self-consuming/self-destroying gimmicks that only exist with humanity. It's not gonna be fun when we'll start to abolish things that cause more harm than good like TV, Internet, cars... in some places you couldn't even confiscate a gun without having four more pointed back at you, even if that's one thing that we truly don't really need so widespread in so many more lethally involved variations that's just f*****g obvious.

Even more obvious, whom of us needs another Japanese knife? Where's the limit that each will start to argue back that to any industry there's a need and a local economy going on... what's serious and what's not if it means more unemployment and social decay at the very forefront.

I don't hate Veg-any-existing-and-soon-to-be-created "garden variety" of food preocuppation. Or any preoccupation. I mean do what you feel is right. Just because you certainly won't sacrifice some things. And then you'll need to defend those things. And if those things become worldwide concerns, you'll have your balls skins and whole lives chewed right out of you.


----------



## blokey

Jovidah said:


> Like it or not, by nature we are omnivore animals. Not herbivores. A lot of health indicators actually became worse when humans moved from a hunter-gatherer life-style to an agricultural life-style. If you look at research done on hunter-gatherers in the last century they usually found rather meat-heavy diets yet they were completely devoid of all the health problems we see in the west.


This also has alot to do with the building of towns and cities, concentrated population=more waste, more waste=breeding ground of disease. In mostly hunter gather society plague are harder to develop to a really large scale while in agriculture society trading and concentration of population made it easier. 
Diet and health is a messy subject, Hong Kong and Japan both have some the longest living population, yet Hongkongese eat the most meat consumption in the world, a whooping 200kg per person in one year, almost 2 times of the Americans and triple some of the European countries. While Japan is more modest, usually below 50 kg per person per year, that's below most developed or even developing countries. Yet they both live to well over 80s. Of course well established health care is a factor, but both population still have a healthier, less obesity, less heart related disease and generally better end of life condition. So there are alot of factors in diet and health.


----------



## jedy617

Uh oh my bad, didn't expect to spawn this with the vegans had no soul thing lol. I have a lot of respect for vegans and vegetarians, and there is no way it's not better for the environment and health (at least vegetarianism). Vegans are hard to cook for and host but I do it. Some are a bit annoying, some are very easy to please. That being said...every vegetarian is just so much easier man. Just make my life easier people and be vegetarian so I can make you a latte when you come over. I forget to have oat milk on hand lol. Milk and eggs are just the best


----------



## Barmoley

jedy617 said:


> ……and there is no way it's not better for the environment and health (at least vegetarianism).


It’s definitely an opinion, doesn’t make it true, but definitely an opinion, might even be a popular one.


----------



## jedy617

Barmoley said:


> It’s definitely an opinion, doesn’t make it true, but definitely an opinion, might even be a popular one.


I can at least agree from an evolutionary perspective (I'm a biologist so that happens to be a favorite perspective lol.) that humans got to where we are by eating meat, no question. In modern times I think the need is questionable. I know some unhealthy vegans, and a lot of healthy meat eaters as an aside. As a whole, I think vegetarianism is better for the body, while it is difficult for vegans to get the protein and vitamins they need although it can be done for sure.


----------



## zizirex

Fake Milk and Nut Juice are worst part of drinks that you can Get from Grain and Water.

The best part from grain? Make a beer


----------



## jedy617

Not gonna lie I do like oatmilk. It does make coffee taste like oatmeal...but like good oatmeal. But still for me, hides the taste of coffee more than normal milk


----------



## zizirex

I always have problem drinking those fake milk, straight to toilet or farting like after eating those beans.

I like my cortado with whole milk or I rather drink black coffee rather than have to deal with fake milk.


----------



## spaceconvoy

I have never met a stereotypical 'annoying vegan,' but I've met so many obnoxiously smug carnivores. This thread is reinforcing that perception


----------



## blokey

Don't think them as milk replacement, people has been drinking soy based beverage for centuries in Asia and almond milk in Europe, they all have a distinct flavor. It's the same problem what people are doing with tofu nowadays, it is used as meat replacement sometimes but it is very much a delicacy on its own, there are so many good tofus, some with minimum flavoring so you can enjoy the gentle taste and texture.


----------



## M1k3

Unpopular Opinions....or Unpopular Discussions?


----------



## zizirex

spaceconvoy said:


> I have never met a stereotypical 'annoying vegan,' but I've met so many obnoxiously smug carnivores. This thread is reinforcing that perception


I thinks it’s more on the west (worse) coast. I’ve seen it multiple time. I also have a very nice vegan co worker that is not pushy like those Karen’s. So it really depends.


----------



## zizirex

blokey said:


> Don't think them as milk replacement, people has been drinking soy based beverage for centuries in Asia and almond milk in Europe, they all have a distinct flavor. It's the same problem what people are doing with tofu nowadays, it is used as meat replacement sometimes but it is very much a delicacy on its own, there are so many good tofus, some with minimum flavoring so you can enjoy the gentle taste and texture.


I know, I saw people eating Tempe as a healthy meal replacement where it’s actually a pair for tofu set.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Early Homo Sapiens lived in costal caves in South Africa. Eating fish, clams, lots of pure protein tide pools, shells clinging to rocks. Some of the first jewelry were tiny shells strung together. Homo Erectus over one million years ago walked out of Africa & populated much of the planet. Also started using fire making meat much easier to digest. 

Extremes in diet esp. a lot of the claims on the web of miracle powders & pills. It's snake oil salesmen for all the gullible folks who waste money on it. 

I remember when egg yolks we're considered bad. Egg yolks are packed with nutrition. Cut out sugar, most processed food. Lost weight, bad colesterol level went down as did blood sugar. Eating more eggs seafood, Greek yogurt unsweetened, lots of fresh fruits & vegetables. Cut down on large quantities of rice. Still eat bread can't give that up. Complex carbs are good for you like sweet potatoes. Atkins diet & guys who say no carbohydrate don't believe. Why do think endurance athletes like tour cyclists load up on carbs. Atkins died young.

We are endurance walkers sweating instead of panting. Animals are faster but get exhausted. We walked them down. Trouble is have become sedentary that causes health problems.


----------



## Jovidah

ian said:


> Wait, so they didn’t get carpal tunnel?
> 
> Seems hard to attribute this to diet, given the innumerable lifestyle and environmental differences between hunter/gatherers and modern humans.


I'm talking cardiovascular diseases and a lot of the other welfare diseases and a lot of the other stuff that's usually correlated with (meat-forward) diets in the west.


ian said:


> I agree with all of this, and they are definitely good points, but also none of it actually contradicts that the world would be better off if more people were vegetarian. If your point is that there are complicating factors, and that extremism is never the way to go, I agree, but it also seems like there’s some whataboutism going on with a lot of these arguments.


My point is that 'it depends', and it isn't as simple as often represented. Depending on dietary choices you could actually make certain problems worse; short-term you would only really find any _guaranteed _gains if people switched to a diet of _grains and pulses. _And how big that gain would be is very much dependent upon the diet these people initially ate. If the main protein consumed is chicken / egg the difference is acutally quite marginal. On top of that, within the bigger scope of current human consumption, dietary choices are only a small part of their footprint... Even if everyone went vegan tomorrow you wouldn't solve our climate problem at all for example.
In the long-term, if agriculture is further defossilized the gap will likely close further, leaving mostly the issue of methane from cows to deal with (which is currently heavily researched for that reason).

So my issue is that the issue is often misrepresented, and the truth is often distorted to push an argument. And for a lot of the groups the 'sustainability' was never the core issue; it was just a way to get more traction on their progrems to stop livestock farming because the compassion argument and shock tactics weren't working.
In all honesty I have a lot more respect for people argueing for vegetarianism or veganism based on compassion for animals; I have no argument against that.


----------



## blokey

A lot of problems with modern fad diet is they treat food as a yes or no question, when it should be a more or less question. You got tons of different diet forbidden meat, fat, sugar or carb, those diet are not going to attract majority of people because lets be frank those things are delicious. Most people would go like a month with fad diet and immediately went back into indulge on whatever they like. In reality most problem lies in over consumption, people eat too much meat, fat, sugar and carb, the best way is just to enjoy them in moderation, eat less but higher quality meat, enjoy fresh bread and fruits, use good fat to stir fry vegetables.


----------



## jjlotti

jedy617 said:


> I can at least agree from an evolutionary perspective (I'm a biologist so that happens to be a favorite perspective lol.) that humans got to where we are by eating meat, no question. In modern times I think the need is questionable. I know some unhealthy vegans, and a lot of healthy meat eaters as an aside. As a whole, I think vegetarianism is better for the body, while it is difficult for vegans to get the protein and vitamins they need although it can be done for sure.


Don't are teeth give a good clue how we should be eating from this perspective? Combo diet.....


----------



## jjlotti

"Who's willing" is just not an easy question to answer but, more and more, seems to be the question....


----------



## EShin

Jovidah said:


> -Almost all 'meat is bad' comparisons rely heavily on comparing vs beef, which is indeed by far the worst polluter, and massively stacks the deck. When you start looking at fish, eggs & chicken the picture changes drastically. Insects would likely be even better but I think no one wants to go there... But the difference between vegetarian and vegan is actually quite minimal as a result.
> -I have yet to see a comparison that includes 'organic' vs 'industrial / bioindustry' produced meat. Probably because they prefer to hide the uncomfortable truth that _animal-friendlyness_ and _environmental-friendlyness_ are often at odds with eachother. Large scale, industialized produciton with fast-growing breeds is usually significantly more efficient when it comes to resources consumption / CO2. But the fact that these aren't seperated / specified properly is on its own indicative that the numbers are deliberately 'vague', considering there's a significant difference in their footprint.
> -There's more to sustainability than just Co²...there's also things like water consumption. And just as an example, a lot of nuts are actually quite horrible at their water consumption. A kilo almonds costs about 16k liters of water. A kilo of cashews 14k. A kilo of chicken? Only 4k.


It always depends on the particular circumstances. Beef is a bad polluter in a large-scale, industrialised setting with their fodder being produced as cheap as possible on larger areas than food is produced for human consumption, many of them being deforested, and antibiotics being fed standardly. And that is the reality for most beef production on the globe. Then we find out that it's bad for our health, too, surprise surprise. All these things change if the cattle is held free-range and managed well, by which the carbon that is sequestered in soil outweighs pollutions by far, stimulate the growth of the pasture and the meat is rich in omega-3s instead of omega-6s etc (so yes, sustainability is so much more complex than Co2; you don't restore ecosystems just by being carbon neutral). Prices are much higher, but only because so many costs of the industrial production are externalised. That being said, if we would just let all the cows go onto grasslands, we'd see many ecosystems collapse, which happens everywhere we try large-scale monocultural food production, also with fishes etc. The same even applies to some large-scale industrialised biodynamic farms...



Naftoor said:


> I’m pretty convinced through my self experimentation humans are meant to be primarily carnivores, with supplementation for micronutrients from vegetables and mushrooms. How that works in a world with too many people I have no idea, but I know it’s the best way for me. Living with a significant other who prefers variety though, and crazy rising food costs have kept me on a more mixed diet.


What recent research has shown is that we really can't generalise these things. A diet that works for someone could be the cause of all sorts of diseases for somebody else, and what is good for you at one point in your life might not be good at another. Humanity has seen cultures with all kinds of diets, and among those cultures that didn't deplete their lands within a few centuries, there's the whole range from diets that are mostly based on meats or fish to mostly (but not exclusively) vegan cultures. So as @Jovidah said, we're omnivores. What all of them have in common is that their diet was strictly local and seasonal, fresh, varied across the years both in variety and in amount, and that all these people spent a lot of time with food-related activities. Oh, and none of them were trying to extract as much profit as possible in as short as possible out of the grounds.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Let's get things back on track...

TF knives are a rip off.


----------



## EShin

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Let's get things back on track...
> 
> TF knives are a rip off.


Isn't it about _unpopular_ opinions?


----------



## sansho

M1k3 said:


> Unpopular Opinions....or *Unpopular Discussions*?



i've been secretly hoping this becomes the new covid thread. (half joking)

oops, secret's out.

unpopular (?) opinion: that thread got closed really abruptly and seemingly out of nowhere, and i think that was a mistake and possibly a disservice to the community. especially without explanation.


----------



## BillHanna

sansho said:


> i've been secretly hoping this becomes the new covid thread. (half joking)
> 
> oops, secret's out.
> 
> unpopular (?) opinion: that thread got closed really abruptly and seemingly out of nowhere, and i think that was a mistake and possibly a disservice to the community. especially without explanation.


The reason was some hate speech, wasn’t it. Some jerk doesn’t believe that people deserve to be treated as people, right?


----------



## sansho

i see 
i must have missed that. was it deleted?

still, why not just deal with the offender?


----------



## BillHanna

I mostly stayed out of that thread, but I’m willing to bet it was going in circles, and annoying to moderate.


----------



## spaceconvoy

BillHanna said:


> I mostly stayed out of that thread, but I’m willing to bet it was going in circles, and annoying to moderate.


just like covid itself


----------



## BillHanna

spaceconvoy said:


> just like covid itself


----------



## ch_br

jedy617 said:


> Not gonna lie I do like oatmilk. It does make coffee taste like oatmeal...but like good oatmeal. But still for me, hides the taste of coffee more than normal milk



Hmmmm, I love coffee and I love oatmilk.

I never thought about the combo tasking like oatmeal coffee though....

You've given me something to think about with tomorrow morning's cup.


----------



## Dan-

Eating local isn’t the solution people think it is. 









Eating local is still not a good way to reduce the carbon footprint of your diet


A recent paper claimed that 'food miles' accounted for 20% of food emissions. But this is wrong.




hannahritchie.substack.com


----------



## Justinv

Oat milk? Heavy cream is great in coffee. And cereal.


----------



## esoo

ch_br said:


> Hmmmm, I love coffee and I love oatmilk.
> 
> I never thought about the combo tasking like oatmeal coffee though....
> 
> You've given me something to think about with tomorrow morning's cup.



While I don't drink coffee (but do drink oat milk to due to lactose intolerance), the wife loves one brands Barista Oatmilk, which is made for use in coffees and lattes. 









Oat Barista | Earth's Own


Easy to steam and foams like a dream, enter Oat Barista! Made by baristas with oats grown using 7x less water than cow's milk.



earthsown.com


----------



## esoo

Justinv said:


> Oat milk? Heavy cream is great in coffee. And cereal.



Works fantastic in Cream of Wheat.


----------



## esoo

Speaking of cream of wheat,

cream of wheat >>>> oatmeal.


----------



## ch_br

esoo said:


> Speaking of cream of wheat,
> 
> cream of wheat >>>> oatmeal.



Hmm lots of oat types...

But all big grocery chain stuff, absolutely

However,

Real grits, made properly >>>>>> cream of wheat


----------



## ch_br

esoo said:


> While I don't drink coffee (but do drink oat milk to due to lactose intolerance), the wife loves one brands Barista Oatmilk, which is made for use in coffees and lattes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oat Barista | Earth's Own
> 
> 
> Easy to steam and foams like a dream, enter Oat Barista! Made by baristas with oats grown using 7x less water than cow's milk.
> 
> 
> 
> earthsown.com



My wife swears by Califia,

Its on a standing 2 week delivery cycle from Amazonia.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

BillHanna said:


> The reason was some hate speech, wasn’t it. Some jerk doesn’t believe that people deserve to be treated as people, right?


When fresh water supplies are more scarce esp. if rising sea levels get into natural fresh water, we will be eating Soylent Green starving human population worldwide plentiful protein rich food supply.


----------



## ian

sansho said:


> i see
> i must have missed that. was it deleted?
> 
> still, why not just deal with the offender?



Ya kinda agree. There was one person that was going on a rant about trans people, and then the thread was closed. It’s not like the thread was going amazing places — there was a lot of repetition in the discussion — but it was a good place to vent and connect about covid related stuff. RIP covid thread. Also RIP High Drama Thread, which was the best thread.


----------



## BillHanna

ian said:


> Also RIP High Drama Thread, which was the best thread.


Totally objective opinion


----------



## ian

BillHanna said:


> Totally objective opinion


----------



## esoo

ch_br said:


> Hmm lots of oat types...
> 
> But all big grocery chain stuff, absolutely
> 
> However,
> 
> Real grits, made properly >>>>>> cream of wheat


Being north of the border, I can attest to having real grits. So my comment stands


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Cooking for vegans, vegetarians, palio, keto, host of others who don't like this or that is a pain in the a#@.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

The longest living group of Americans are 7 day Adventist. Not just what they eat, low impact walking, giving more than taking, Spiritual like minded folks. 

Many live to over 100 esp. women. Diet heavy on fresh fruits and vegetables. Nuts, whole grain breads, beans. Some are vegetarians others eat small amounts of meat. Eat a hardy breakfast, lunch like a king, dinner like a mouse. 

We eat omelet, mostly protein frozen fruit smoothie for breakfast. Sometimes bowl of coaches oats with fresh fruit, cinnamon. 

Lunch main meal salads dressing from scratch, Various Seafood, fresh fish, crab, shrimp, vegetable stir fry, Curries, cut down on rice smaller portion. Other stews ethnic dishes to mix it up. 

At night just snack on plain popcorn, nuts. Greek yogurt no sugar or sweeteners. 

Cut out most processed foods & sugar still eat whole grain breads, buns with Salmon burgers. Can't gain weight eating like this, not starving at all just don't eat heavy after lunch. That is key. And exercise. Stretch. 
We are early 70's don't take any medication.
Still enjoy a beer or glass of wine. No more pakalolo only thing put in my lungs these days is the air that breathe.


----------



## blokey

Sugimoto no.6 is the KS of Chinese cleavers, it is a good knife but way over priced due to the hype.


----------



## blokey

Some of you have terrible taste in handles.


----------



## Rangen

blokey said:


> Some of you have terrible taste in handles.


What? You take that ba...




Wait, never mind. Carry on.


----------



## Naftoor

I agree with the opinion of terrible handles every time I see a handle made in the 21st century that still involves a horn piece at the front


----------



## ian

Is using buffalo horn any worse than eating meat or using leather? Thought it was just one part of the dead animal that’s used for a bunch of things, but maybe I’m misinformed. Or maybe the point is that we shouldn’t be eating meat in the 21st century?


----------



## blokey

Rangen said:


> What? You take that ba...
> View attachment 213473
> 
> Wait, never mind. Carry on.


Watanabe certainly have a very unique taste…


----------



## M1k3

Eating Offal 🫶

Using the horn of the animal


----------



## Rangen

blokey said:


> Watanabe certainly have a very unique taste…


Huh, you knew what it was. I'm impressed.


----------



## Naftoor

Meat is the food of the gods (as are Brussels sprouts), leather ages better than people, and horn handles just look bad. The horn almost never matches the woods coloration, and 9/10 times the wood would look better as a single piece construction. If you want a multicolored handle just buy one of those resin stabilized pieces and embrace it, horn is a hollow imitation from the era of non-stabilized woods where you needed to protect end grain from moisture.


----------



## M1k3

Horn ferrule's also have the added benefit of added durability from lateral forces. Ask me how I know.


----------



## esoo

Don't mind horn ferrules - full horn handles on the other hand are hideous


----------



## myguidingmoonlight

I'll take good old well-oiled ho wood handles over fancy stabilized wood multi-spacers handles anyday. 

Far too few vendors are selling good, minimalist handles these days.


----------



## tostadas

When people say they don't like the feel of stabilized wood, I suspect they actually mean that they don't like the feel of the coating (Tru-oil, polyurethane, etc) that the maker decides to finish with. I'd be very surprised if most people could tell the difference between a stabilized and unstabilized wood blank if both were simply sanded to 220 grit with no coating.


----------



## IsoJ

tostadas said:


> When people say they don't like the feel of stabilized wood, I suspect they actually mean that they don't like the feel of the coating (Tru-oil, polyurethane, etc) that the maker decides to finish with. I'd be very surprised if most people could tell the difference between a stabilized and unstabilized wood blank if both were simply sanded to 220 grit with no coating.


Agreed. And the handle gets scratches anyway and it isn't the night and day difference in finish look lets say 400vs1500 grit if the knife is meant to be used as a "tool".


----------



## esoo

tostadas said:


> When people say they don't like the feel of stabilized wood, I suspect they actually mean that they don't like the feel of the coating (Tru-oil, polyurethane, etc) that the maker decides to finish with. I'd be very surprised if most people could tell the difference between a stabilized and unstabilized wood blank if both were simply sanded to 220 grit with no coating.



Well, one issue with stabilized wood is that is heavier, throwing the balance off.

But in general I agree - all someone cares about is how the top millimetre of the wood feels to the hand.


----------



## tostadas

esoo said:


> Well, one issue with stabilized wood is that is heavier, throwing the balance off.


Agreed.

Another maybe unpopular opinion: makers should not be doing stabilized wood handles with the same dimensions as the original ho wood handle they're intended to replace. A 145mm long 20x24 stabilized handle or other dense material like ebony/ironwood is way too heavy unless you intend on adjusting the balance


----------



## MSicardCutlery

The thing is though, that with the really nice woods, stabilized or not, especially the ones that exhibit some chatoyance, you need to have both a fine surface finish and a coating of some sort to enhance the depth and contrast of the wood in question. The best compromise I've found is wax. It doesn't interfere with the oil finish, and provides some good tac.


----------



## tostadas

MSicardCutlery said:


> The thing is though, that with the really nice woods, stabilized or not, especially the ones that exhibit some chatoyance, you need to have both a fine surface finish and a coating of some sort to enhance the depth and contrast of the wood in question. The best compromise I've found is wax. It doesn't interfere with the oil finish, and provides some good tac.


I found carnauba wax and hardwax oil to be the best solutions so far for 1) providing depth to the finish and 2) don't feel like plastic


----------



## Jeff

Rangen said:


> What? You take that ba...
> View attachment 213473
> 
> Wait, never mind. Carry on.




Is that a vintage line knife from Howard Johnsons?


----------



## blokey

Jeff said:


> Is that a vintage line knife from Howard Johnsons?


Looks like Wat to me





Chinese cleaver knife | WATANABE BLADE


Hand forged Chinese cleaver, blue steel with a custom handle.




www.kitchen-knife.jp


----------



## Dan-

Communication about sought-after versions of custom knives should be plentiful and regular.


----------



## M1k3

Dan- said:


> Communication about sought-after versions of custom knives should be plentiful and regular.


Sounds like a popular opinion to me.


----------



## martchap

I'll have to go taste my handles and get back to you...


----------



## ethompson

If you've ever gotten a nice stock ho / horn or burnt chestnut / horn handle and thought "I need to replace this" for a reason other than size or shifting the balance point, you've got bad taste in handles


----------



## jedy617

I've got bad taste in handles 🥹


----------



## ethompson

jedy617 said:


> I've got bad taste in handles 🥹


The first step to recovery is acknowledging the problem


----------



## jedy617

Screw recovery, give me all the burls!!! And I need figure baby, not the straight grain junk. Life is too short for plain wood when there's so much amazing stuff out there


----------



## ahhactive

mengwong said:


> On the opposite end of the planet, we went out to a Teochew restaurant for raw “sashimi” crab in garlic soy vinegar; oyster porridge; crunchy chinese chives; black ink squid sausage; and braised duck. No turkeys were harmed.View attachment 210466


this i gotta try. what's the restaurant called?


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Black horn is bad ass on burnt chestnut or burls. It can smell funky when working with it though. Looks good polished. Protects blade end of handle better than wood.

Like stag horn handles on vintage carving knives too, good grip & feel good in the hand. Skinny wa handles on full size knife suck. Unless you have tiny little hands.

Reather wear a Croc belt than be eaten by one.


----------



## Jovidah

myguidingmoonlight said:


> I'll take good old well-oiled ho wood handles over fancy stabilized wood multi-spacers handles anyday.
> 
> Far too few vendors are selling good, minimalist handles these days.


I wonder where all the D-handles have gone. I have to admit that that even though asymmetrical handles irk my OCD, the one D-handle I have is actually my most comfortable wa-handle.


----------



## esoo

Based on the ones I've handled, right handled D-handles are actually better for lefties than righties.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Double D handles are superior to all.

Also, wa handles are overused. Slapping an octagonal wa handle on a bolsterless blade is lazy and cheap. Customers should be demanding better, but many of y'all have bought the marketing and are allowing manufacturers to lead you by the nose


----------



## BillHanna

spaceconvoy said:


> Double D handles are superior to all.
> 
> Also, wa handles are overused. Slapping an octagonal wa handle on a bolsterless blade is lazy and cheap. Customers should be demanding better, but many of y'all have bought the marketing and are allowing manufacturers to lead you by the nose


Integral wa?


----------



## blokey

spaceconvoy said:


> Double D handles are superior to all.
> 
> Also, wa handles are overused. Slapping an octagonal wa handle on a bolsterless blade is lazy and cheap. Customers should be demanding better, but many of y'all have bought the marketing and are allowing manufacturers to lead you by the nose


Yeah it's really hard to find a good western handled knife these days without going custom. And stop putting wa handles on everything, there are knives just works better with other types of handles.


----------



## spaceconvoy

BillHanna said:


> Integral wa?


Yes!
Now for a truly unpopular opinion: this is best knife handle being mass produced today




Remove the end cap, seal the cavity with JB Weld, sand the butt smooth, and you've got the ideal perfectly balanced handle


----------



## blokey

BillHanna said:


> Integral wa?


Probably gonna look like this








Chinese Cleaver - ZANMAI - Betsu Atsurae Serie - Damascus VG-10 - S...


Specifications Knife 18cm Blade Length 180mm (7.08") Overall Length 305mm (12") Blade Height at Base 90mm Blade Thickness 2,1mm Weight 328g Steel Typ...




miuraknives.com


----------



## blokey

spaceconvoy said:


> Yes!
> Now for a truly unpopular opinion: this is best knife handle being mass produced today
> View attachment 213754
> 
> Remove the end cap, seal the cavity with JB Weld, sand the butt smooth, and you've got the ideal perfectly balanced handle


I like what LaSeur did with his cleaver, one of the best knife handle I ever used.








Cleaver — LaSeur Knives


This is a small-to-midsized slicing cleaver, also called a Chinese cleaver or Chinese chef’s knife in AEB-L stainless steel. It has a thin asymmetric compound grind, and is designed for right-handed use (the finger notch is also on the right side of the blade). The handle is turned from some very ha




www.laseurknives.com


----------



## tostadas

spaceconvoy said:


> Yes!
> Now for a truly unpopular opinion: this is best knife handle being mass produced today
> View attachment 213754
> 
> Remove the end cap, seal the cavity with JB Weld, sand the butt smooth, and you've got the ideal perfectly balanced handle


The shape of the shuns are really comfy


----------



## Jovidah

If nothing else I really like the look of the blonde pakkawood. Wished you had that option on more knives; looks better than the standard plain black to me.


----------



## mushroom

Keith Sinclair said:


> Reather wear a Croc belt than be eaten by one.


That's only an unpopular opinion among complete lunatics.


----------



## blokey

I don’t like Kiwi, bought them couple times, try to like them but can’t. I just don’t like thin and light knives no matter the price.


----------



## Rideon66

Scanpan spectrum in all yellow has been a great knife. Cost like $10 and takes a hell of an edge that lasts. I have had it for years and I even cut frozen stuff and around bone with it. It is a go to when I don't want to destroy a knife and if I am cutting my super hot peppers since I have to use the cheap plastic cutting board for that.


----------



## Dan-

Extremely fragile knives are defective. If it can’t process garlic or slightly frozen meat without chipping, it has no place in a kitchen.

Edit: leaving the original but plz read “knife” as “gyuto”


----------



## Rangen

Dan- said:


> Extremely fragile knives are defective. If it can’t process garlic or slightly frozen meat without chipping, it has no place in a kitchen.


BRB. Cutting all my garlic cloves with a yanagiba to see which one has the hardest shell.


----------



## Barmoley

Dan- said:


> Extremely fragile knives are defective. If it can’t process garlic or slightly frozen meat without chipping, it has no place in a kitchen.


I would agree if you said gyutos instead of knives. Most extremely fragile edges can be fixed with a change to geometry.


----------



## Dan-

Yeah I thought gyuto and wrote knife. Nakiri also fits here. Interesting how strong that association is.


----------



## nickw_

jedy617 said:


> Screw recovery, give me all the burls!!! And I need figure baby, not the straight grain junk. Life is too short for plain wood when there's so much amazing stuff out there



Both have their place. But if you only like highly figured wood, I’ll happily take your entire supply of Brazilian rosewood, ebony, mahogany, etc, the boring straight grained woods that they are.


----------



## mengwong

ahhactive said:


> this i gotta try. what's the restaurant called?


shao.sg


----------



## Grayswandir

tostadas said:


> I found carnauba wax and hardwax oil to be the best solutions so far for 1) providing depth to the finish and 2) don't feel like plastic


Have you tried beeswax?


----------



## Grayswandir

blokey said:


> I like what LaSeur did with his cleaver, one of the best knife handle I ever used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaver — LaSeur Knives
> 
> 
> This is a small-to-midsized slicing cleaver, also called a Chinese cleaver or Chinese chef’s knife in AEB-L stainless steel. It has a thin asymmetric compound grind, and is designed for right-handed use (the finger notch is also on the right side of the blade). The handle is turned from some very ha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.laseurknives.com


And you can get it for the low, low, low price of only $650.00! 

It is beautiful.


----------



## blokey

Grayswandir said:


> And you can get it for the low, low, low price of only $650.00!
> 
> It is beautiful.


I did. Consider the effort he put into it if say worth it.


----------



## tostadas

Grayswandir said:


> Have you tried beeswax?


Yes. It's OK, but leaves a slightly sticky layer and doesn't last very long. However it's easy to reapply.


----------



## Grayswandir

blokey said:


> I did. Consider the effort he put into it if say worth it.
> View attachment 214383


The craftsmanship is amazing, that's for sure.


----------



## Kippington

stringer said:


> One of my pet peeves is when people throw dirty pots and pans straight into a pot sink full of clean soapy water "to soak" and instantly ruin the sink water.


Reminds me of people who - after using any kind of sponge or scourer - appear to have dipped it in some kind of fat...


----------



## Dan-

The purpose of a sponge is to make everything smell of wet sponge.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Clean sponge good & toss it in the microwave kills all those microscopic critters.


----------



## sansho

i throw sponges in the top rack of the dishwasher every few days. game changer for me.


----------



## DitmasPork

Unpopular opinion:
Take your good knives when traveling—lost/stolen luggage is a rarity.


----------



## ethompson

DitmasPork said:


> Unpopular opinion:
> Take your good knives when traveling—lost/stolen luggage is a rarity.


Totally agree, I take thinks that are good, but I know I could replace if needed


----------



## miggus

Knives that don't stain are like those people who you go for a run with and they barely sweat. You can't blame them for it, but something's not right about it.


----------



## DitmasPork

ethompson said:


> Totally agree, I take thinks that are good, but I know I could replace if needed


Yeah, life is short, I figure why buy good knives if they aren’t gonna by used? Sure, I’d be upset if I lost my knife roll, but at day’s end, knives are tools, not works of art—got replacements if anything got lost/stolen. 
Here’s the travel kit for tomorrow’s trip:


----------



## labor of love

chefwp said:


> If you are making your BLTs with some other "L" besides Bibb, you're doing it wrong.


FIFY


----------



## DitmasPork

Iceberg on my blt please.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

DitmasPork said:


> Iceberg on my blt please.


@HumbleHomeCook


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

DitmasPork said:


> Iceberg on my blt please.



Preach brother!


----------



## chefwp

This opinion is extremely unpopular with my beer-nerd friends:
The age of IPAs needs to be over, no longer when you walk into a beer pub should 80% or more of the taps be dominated by barely drinkable IPAs.
For the official record: back in the early 90s, when the North American microbreweries really took off and began to be noticed for brewing interesting and delightful beer, I enjoyed an occasional IPA because back then there was still a chance that it was a well balanced brew that didn't completely dismiss important building blocks of beer that were not hops. Sadly though, it seems to have become a pissing contest to see who can out-hop the competition and the consequence of that has been to mostly ruin IPAs currently on market. -rant over, Chefwp out


----------



## labor of love

IPA dominance certainly needs to end. Whenever I get off work after closing shifts I can’t even get a simple Newcastle or Guinness at gas stations anymore. It’s always domestics+a dozen IPAs or other random crap.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

I like a _good _IPA but those are getting much harder to find among all the "try to be different" crap. I mean, how many possible different ways are there to make an IPA and still be good?

Black Raven Trickster reigns supreme for me but getting harder to find.


----------



## esoo

I gave up on IPA a number of years ago. Now I'm about stouts and porters. 

This year's discovery is fantastic: 








INNIS & GUNN + THE GLENLIVET = VANISHING POINT 06 | Innis & Gunn Canada







www.innisandgunn.com


----------



## tostadas

Yoshikane profile sucks


----------



## McMan

chefwp said:


> in the early 90s, when the North American microbreweries really took off and began to be noticed for brewing interesting and delightful beer, I enjoyed an occasional IPA because back then there was still a chance that it was a well balanced brew that didn't completely dismiss important building blocks of beer that were not hops. Sadly though, it seems to have become a pissing contest to see who can out-hop the competition and the consequence of that has been to mostly ruin IPAs currently on market.


So true. The hazy-IPA craze ruined everything.


----------



## Dan-

True, almost all of them except Fiddlehead, Pliny, and Heady Topper are just bad.


----------



## ian

Hazy IPA = Best IPA


----------



## jedy617

Puts on flame suit....IPA tastes like dirt and pine cones.


----------



## blokey

I like watery beer.


----------



## jedy617

Even worse. I actually hate beer in general. Now that has to be up high in unpopular opinions. Give me a cocktail or a whiskey on the rocks


----------



## enrico l

Red wine is the best


----------



## M1k3

Root beer > beer


----------



## MSicardCutlery

M1k3 said:


> Root beer > beer


A&W, the bottled kind....screw the cans, not the same flavour at all.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

MSicardCutlery said:


> A&W, the bottled kind....screw the cans, not the same flavour at all.



I'm old enough to remember A&W drive-ins and bringing our A&W gallon jugs in to get refilled.


----------



## enrico l

Why does KKF count to 1 million when the forum counts the comments for us.


----------



## M1k3

enrico l said:


> Why does KKF count to 1 million when the forum counts the comments for us.


In case you miss it the first time. You're welcome.


----------



## More_Gyutos

enrico l said:


> Why does KKF count to 1 million when the forum counts the comments for us.


Because maybe you just want to BS on the way. Enrico, you are just trying.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

enrico l said:


> Why does KKF count to 1 million when the forum counts the comments for us.



You're outside the box! Outside the box!!!


----------



## enrico l

HumbleHomeCook said:


> You're outside the box! Outside the box!!!


Thats the point of this thread!


----------



## Naftoor

I’ll preface this by saying I don’t really like any alcohol. Every wine I’ve had, red or white tastes like vinegar with occasionally a flavor added. Traditional US beers like Budweiser taste like piss, lagers taste flat, and liquors mostly taste like fire, solvent and regret. 

An IPA where all you can taste is the hops, and a cider where all you can taste is apple juice though?


----------



## Dhoff

Naftoor said:


> I’ll preface this by saying I don’t really like any alcohol. Every wine I’ve had, red or white tastes like vinegar with occasionally a flavor added. Traditional US beers like Budweiser taste like piss, lagers taste flat, and liquors mostly taste like fire, solvent and regret.
> 
> An IPA where all you can taste is the hops, and a cider where all you can taste is apple juice though?



Mostly I agree, but I like most sweet desert wine like port


----------



## Justinv

Naftoor said:


> cider where all you can taste is apple juice though


Try a good traditional dry cider, some terrific small batch ones are made in USA that have plenty of complex flavors. You might find you like burning bowling ball flavor.


----------



## Rangen

Naftoor said:


> An IPA where all you can taste is the hops, and a cider where all you can taste is apple juice though?


Pliny the Elder should suit you well, then. I remember picking up a bottle after first hearing that it got 100 points from someone. It was very well crafted and over-the-top extreme in hop flavor. Very impressive. I am very glad that I got the opportunity to try it, and I hope never to drink it again.

As for ciders, I mostly don't like them, because really dry apple tastes bad to me. I've tried tons -- British style, Frankfurt style, and various others. Not for me.

The kind of sparkling cider they do in British Columbia though, like Grower's, just tastes wonderful to me, the best thing about apples captured in a delicious and refreshing drink.


----------



## timebard

ian said:


> Hazy IPA = Best IPA


Apparently the real unpopular opinion, but the hazy craze has been a godsend for the drinkability of your average craft IPA. A decade ago outside the Northeast you got way too many piney, resiny, dank IPAs that got overwhelming after a third of a glass. Like taking an Atoma to your palate. Yeah plenty of hazy beers are mediocre but it's rare I want to pour one down the sink... and the good ones are delicious and easy to put a few away.


----------



## stringer

timebard said:


> Apparently the real unpopular opinion, but the hazy craze has been a godsend for the drinkability of your average craft IPA. A decade ago outside the Northeast you got way too many piney, resiny, dank IPAs that got overwhelming after a third of a glass. Like taking an Atoma to your palate. Yeah plenty of hazy beers are mediocre but it's rare I want to pour one down the sink... and the good ones are delicious and easy to put a few away.


New England is a cess pool of hazy IPA. I remember when I moved there from Michigan which has an amazing craft beer scene. Roll into the brewery and ask what's on tap. They had eleven hazy IPAs that were all identical except for the hop variety. Went to the next brewery, same thing. Next brewery, same thing. Everywhere in New England, same thing. Now I'm living in Virginia and the beer is much better. More breweries and more variety. Pilsners, stouts, ales, porters, ESBs, Belgian styles, etc. And out of ten or 12 taps at a typical brewery they might have 2 IPAs. Much more reasonable situation for those of us that don't like to eat botanical soap.


----------



## ZeeVee

I guess the real unpopular opinion here is liking hazy IPAs or IPAs in general..... Guilty....


----------



## ian

stringer said:


> New England is a cess pool of hazy IPA. I remember when I moved there from Michigan which has an amazing craft beer scene. Roll into the brewery and ask what's on tap. They had eleven hazy IPAs that were all identical except for the hop variety. Went to the next brewery, same thing. Next brewery, same thing. Everywhere in New England, same thing. Now I'm living in Virginia and the beer is much better. More breweries and more variety. Pilsners, stouts, ales, porters, ESBs, Belgian styles, etc. And out of ten or 12 taps at a typical brewery they might have 2 IPAs. Much more reasonable situation for those of us that don't like to eat botanical soap.



Embrace the soap!


----------



## DitmasPork

Honestly can’t think of a beer type I don’t fancy. I’ll happily drink cans of PBR at a backyard bbq, do beer flights at microbreweries, or drink Belgium beer served by dudes in monks robes. Gimme an IPA.


----------



## Greasylake

Beer sucks

I wasn't gonna say anything but it was getting too pro-beer in here, had to balance things out


----------



## spaceconvoy

Too pro-alcohol imo. Having strong opinions about about beer or wine or whatever is a red flag to me


----------



## sumis

beer drinkers get what they deserve (i.e. a world saturated with mediocre ipa). 
fermented grape juice is a thing – why bother with anything else?

.


----------



## Naftoor

Rangen said:


> Pliny the Elder should suit you well, then. I remember picking up a bottle after first hearing that it got 100 points from someone. It was very well crafted and over-the-top extreme in hop flavor. Very impressive. I am very glad that I got the opportunity to try it, and I hope never to drink it again.
> 
> As for ciders, I mostly don't like them, because really dry apple tastes bad to me. I've tried tons -- British style, Frankfurt style, and various others. Not for me.
> 
> The kind of sparkling cider they do in British Columbia though, like Grower's, just tastes wonderful to me, the best thing about apples captured in a delicious and refreshing drink.



I’ll have to give Pliny a shot! I’ll also have to give growers a chance if I find it. Angry orchard is go to for ciders, even if it is just apple juice with vodka. The higher end ciders I’ve tried to date just end up not being sweet enough. 



sumis said:


> beer drinkers get what they deserve (i.e. a world saturated with mediocre ipa).
> fermented grape juice is a thing – why bother with anything else?
> 
> .



Because wine tastes like vinegar  if I wanted something that tasted healthy instead of good I’d drink an over fermented kombucha 

Here’s an opinion I’m sure will rustle some Jimmie’s: homemade eggnog is the best cocktail.


----------



## ethompson

People who only drink whiskey, wine, beer, or whatever their poison of choice is and look down on other beverages are snobby. Every drink has its proper occasion and there is good stuff in every aspect. Stop limiting yourself the flavors of distillation and fermentation are fascinating and far fetched. I don’t want an old growth burgundy on a hot summers day by the pool (gimme a cheap beer please) and I don’t want a cocktail tucking into a cassoulet (wine it up) and I don’t want a beer when im sitting around late at night with friends. Everything has its place in the drink world except needless dogmatism.

Also Americans make the best and worst beers. For every excellent IPA, wild ale, or ingenious stout there are 12 mediocre brews.


----------



## Rangen

Naftoor said:


> Here’s an opinion I’m sure will rustle some Jimmie’s: homemade eggnog is the best cocktail.


You, sir, have a sweet tooth.

If you want to try the best cocktail in the universe, and adjust it to your tastes, just add extra simple syrup to a Sazerac.


----------



## Rangen

ethompson said:


> Also Americans make the best and worst beers. For every excellent IPA, wild ale, or ingenious stout there are 12 mediocre brews.


I have had many excellent American beers. But not one that equaled Koelsch in Cologne, or Real Ale in London.


----------



## M1k3

Every wine I've tasted, I think tastes like grape juice gone bad. And I've tried some expensive, well regarded stuff.

Wine in food though 🫶


----------



## tostadas

I don't care for wine/beer/etc. I like the taste of La Croix.


----------



## M1k3

tostadas said:


> I don't care for wine/beer/etc. I like the taste of La Croix.


The previously recalled La Croix?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer is a terrible movie that both scared and scarred me as a child. My crap was bad enough but then you're gonna plunk my toddler ass down in front of the TV and show me that?

I mean, it's bad enough that his dad was ashamed of him but Santa too? An entire Island of Misfit Toys?

Happy ending my ass.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer is a terrible movie that both scared and scarred me as a child. My crap was bad enough but then you're gonna plunk my toddler ass down in front of the TV and show me that?
> 
> I mean, it's bad enough that his dad was ashamed of him but Santa too? An entire Island of Misfit Toys?
> 
> Happy ending my ass.


Hm....someone's still mad about getting socks and undies as a kid....


----------



## BillHanna

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer is a terrible movie that both scared and scarred me as a child. My crap was bad enough but then you're gonna plunk my toddler ass down in front of the TV and show me that?
> 
> I mean, it's bad enough that his dad was ashamed of him but Santa too? An entire Island of Misfit Toys?
> 
> Happy ending my ass.


And then they wanna act like everything is cool? Nah, dawg. Find your own way; I’m out. 


For years I’ve been telling people “I don’t want to play your reindeer games” because of that movie. Even my wife says it now.


----------



## BillHanna

MSicardCutlery said:


> Hm....someone's still mad about getting socks and undies as a kid....


I. WANTED. A. NINTENDO.


----------



## ian

BillHanna said:


> I. WANTED. A. NINTENDO.



It makes me angry just to hear the pain you experienced!


----------



## Rangen

BillHanna said:


> For years I’ve been telling people “I don’t want to play your reindeer games” because of that movie. Even my wife says it now.


My wife still says "I'm In-dee-PEN-dant" when she does something like open a jar without asking for my help.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

BillHanna said:


> I. WANTED. A. NINTENDO.



Silly youngster. We didn't have Nintendo's. We played pong.


----------



## M1k3

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Silly youngster. We didn't have Nintendo's. We played pong.


I had one of those. And Atari. Never got a Nintendo though..


----------



## BillHanna

M1k3 said:


> I had one of those. And Atari. Never got a Nintendo though..


2600? My cousin had colecovision.


----------



## BillHanna

My dad said he bought the Atari 7800 one year, but when he played it ahead of time, he thought it’s sucked and returned it. Smart man.


----------



## M1k3

If you eat store bought whole eat pita bread, you should not get an opinion on people taking photos in their car.


----------



## esoo

BillHanna said:


> 2600? My cousin had colecovision.


My dad's work had a 2600 they'd loan out. 

My first computer games were played on a HP 97S calculator my dad brought home from work. Lunar lander all with just numbers.


----------



## DitmasPork

spaceconvoy said:


> Too pro-alcohol imo. Having strong opinions about about beer or wine or whatever is a red flag to me


Point taken. What’s all’s y’all’s favorite nonalcoholic beer?


----------



## M1k3

DitmasPork said:


> Point taken. What’s all’s y’all’s favorite nonalcoholic beer?
> View attachment 214935


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

DitmasPork said:


> Point taken. What’s all’s y’all’s favorite nonalcoholic beer?
> View attachment 214935



I'll get back to you when I'm done ironing my red flag.


----------



## ethompson

DitmasPork said:


> Point taken. What’s all’s y’all’s favorite nonalcoholic beer?


I've found Athletic brewing to make some passable stuff as well. Brooklyn's amber NA is pretty good. As is Weihenstephaner's NA. None are my favorite, but sometimes I want that fermented malty hoppy goodness at the end of the day but don't want the booze.


----------



## bahamaroot

I drink






While playing


----------



## coxhaus

I like Heineken beer, but a lot of my friends won't drink it anymore as they want IPA. I like IPA but I have gotten tired of it as I think it is overdone nowadays.
So many beers so little time.


----------



## Heckel7302

Sticking with the adult beverage theme:

Clear spirits are almost all inferior to brown ones
Gin is gross
Vodka is tasteless 
White/Silver rum is inferior to spiced rum
White/silver Tequila, ok maybe that gets a pass...


----------



## labor of love

Heckel7302 said:


> Sticking with the adult beverage theme:
> 
> Clear spirits are almost all inferior to brown ones
> Gin is gross
> Vodka is tasteless
> White/Silver rum is inferior to spiced rum
> White/silver Tequila, ok maybe that gets a pass...


 people don’t want to hear the truth. 

Must mention the one exception to this rule is the Bloody Mary.
It’s the only application of clear spirits I enjoy.


----------



## esoo

labor of love said:


> people don’t want to hear the truth.
> 
> Must mention the one exception to this rule is the Bloody Mary.



As I Canadian, I must say Caesars are better


----------



## MSicardCutlery

esoo said:


> As I Canadian, I must say Caesars are better


Here here


----------



## sansho

salting pasta water is a complete waste of good salt

salt cellars are dumb. picking up salt with your hand to season stuff is dumb unless it's a finishing salt like maldon, and you need very precise application. i just laugh when i see people reaching their dirty ass hands into those things in youtube vids. i know salt's very antimicrobial, but still.


----------



## sansho

which leads me to my next point...

*kosher salt* is a silly choice for a general purpose salt. which boneheaded celebrity brainwashed everyone into using that?

the overall best choice is clearly fine, granulated salt. it has optimal balance of high surface area:volume ratio (for quickly dissolving) and handling characteristics. it's the most widely sold salt for good reason. i prefer without anticaking agent since smacking it against my palm works fine for me (even in humid areas). i think 'morton natural sea salt' is a fine choice, but the cheapest store-brand thing of salt is also fine.











i dispense directly from the cardboard container when i'm doing 'bulk' cooking. shaking your hand back and forth while you dispense gives even coverage and predictable flowrate. i also have keep some in a smaller container with a perforated lid for when i only need a little.

that and a box of maldon are all i need.


----------



## Rangen

sansho said:


> *kosher salt* is a silly choice for a general purpose salt. which boneheaded celebrity brainwashed everyone into using that?


Getting seriously into different salts has been very rewarding. With the exception of finishing salts, where I am looking for that crunch, dissolvability isn't really even on my radar when making choices. Getting salt to dissolve has not really been an issue.

What is on my radar is flavor nuances. Sea salt has a bite. Sometimes I want that. Sometimes I want a really pronounced version of that; there's a chili recipe I make that absolutely comes alive when you use that Celtic grey salt, which has a ton of bite.

If I were doing all Western cooking, I might well be content with using sea salt for everything (update: except eggs). But for a lot of Chinese recipes, I absolutely do not want that extra peaky bite that sea salt gives. I want as pure a neutrality as I can find. Never found anything that meets that specification better than Kosher salt; I prefer the Diamond Crystal brand.


----------



## Rangen

esoo said:


> As I Canadian, I must say Caesars are better


Hadn't heard of that, so I looked it up. Sounds really good. If there is one thing that a Bloody Mary is generally missing, it's a bit of umami. Always did wonder why there was such a thing as clam juice mixed with tomato juice, but this makes it all make sense.

However, I could do without the version touted by a New York Times article, which refers to one bartender whose Caesar is "a pickled pineapple and a bacon-wrapped, cream-cheese stuffed pickle."


----------



## JASinIL2006

Rangen said:


> Hadn't heard of that, so I looked it up. Sounds really good. If there is one thing that a Bloody Mary is generally missing, it's a bit of umami. Always did wonder why there was such a thing as clam juice mixed with tomato juice, but this makes it all make sense.
> 
> However, I could do without the version touted by a New York Times article, which refers to one bartender whose Caesar is "a pickled pineapple and a bacon-wrapped, cream-cheese stuffed pickle."



How about this for over-the-top?


----------



## DitmasPork

SALT.

Diamond Kosher, plus Maldon for finishing are kitchen stalwarts in my kitchen. I can live without the Maldon, but kosher salt is an essential for me—a ramekin of kosher salt always presents near the stove to grab pinches to season as I cook. 

I’ve never gotten along with fine sea salt. Given a big container of it, thinking of tossing it, since it never gets used and takes up space.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

DitmasPork said:


> SALT.
> 
> Diamond Kosher, plus Maldon for finishing are kitchen stalwarts in my kitchen. I can live without the Maldon, but kosher salt is an essential for me—a ramekin of kosher salt always presents near the stove to grab pinches to season as I cook.
> 
> I’ve never gotten along with fine sea salt. Given a big container of it, thinking of tossing it, since it never gets used and takes up space.



My wife bought a jug of sea salt that broke down easily. I did not like using it and it just sat. I finally put it out on the counter and used it in soups, braises, etc. and for dry brining. For those applications it was fine and I was able to use it up (albeit over a long period) and not waste it.


----------



## jjlotti

DitmasPork said:


> Point taken. What’s all’s y’all’s favorite nonalcoholic beer?
> View attachment 214935


Topo chico


----------



## sansho

Rangen said:


> What is on my radar is flavor nuances. Sea salt has a bite. Sometimes I want that. Sometimes I want a really pronounced version of that; there's a chili recipe I make that absolutely comes alive when you use that Celtic grey salt, which has a ton of bite.



i'm honestly not sure i can tell the difference, but i've never tried. is it super obvious?


----------



## ian

I can hardly tell a difference at all, but my palate’s sh*t. Kosher salt (Diamond Crystal) ftw, for ease of use and reasonably accurate hand measurements, at least in my kitchen. Everyone has their own way, I suppose. Never had any issue whatsoever getting salt to dissolve, unless it’s huge coarse salt.


----------



## Rangen

sansho said:


> i'm honestly not sure i can tell the difference, but i've never tried. is it super obvious?


I think so, yes, at least if the Celtic salt is the same stuff I am getting. The label is blue, and it comes in bags or, I think, jars. It's got a megadose of minerally flavors, and a bit more than a touch of bitterness. I doubt you'd mistake it for Morton's.

If you're talking more generally about salt differences, yes, they are easy to taste. Just moisten a finger and start tasting. Regular table salt is more acrid and bitter than Kosher salt. Sea salt tastes, well, like the sea. Hawaiian black salt, my favorite finishing salt, tastes mild and mellow up front, with a back end kick that is still mellow in a way, but more intense.


----------



## ian

I like the Celtic grey stuff. Got some on rec from @labor of love. Tasting straight is one thing, but I do think that in 99% of recipes, I can’t tell much difference.


----------



## ian

@sansho 



















Trigger warning!


----------



## sansho

noo! precious, precious salt! you're literally pouring a whole FOUR CENTS of salt down the drain!
big salt propaganda... they _want_ you to use it up...

edit: nice chef emeril


----------



## coxhaus

I was given a bunch of different salts, 6 or 8 for one of my birthdays many years ago. If you tasted them side by side, you could tell a difference.


----------



## ian

sansho said:


> noo! precious, precious salt! you're literally pouring a whole FOUR CENTS of salt down the drain!
> big salt propaganda... they _want_ you to use it up...
> 
> edit: nice chef emeril



Heh I have two Emerilware pans. They’re pretty solid! And were cheap. I’ve never watched the show.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

I don't care how good of a knife someone makes, when you're on the second round of being chased for communication in just a few months and a third party has to again step in to help "explain" the lapse, I'm out.


----------



## sansho

ian said:


> Heh I have two Emerilware pans. They’re pretty solid! And were cheap. I’ve never watched the show.



i never watched it either, but i have some kind of emeril turkey roaster pan. it has oversized, bulky handles kinda like yours. i'm guessing that's a trait of his line of cookware. the handles are nice to use but make the cookware annoying to store.

edit: it's not just the handle size. it's the angle. it looks like those handles go up and over the top of the pot...


----------



## esoo

I used my smoker to smoke some sea salt a number of years ago. Tasty stuff that I don't use enough


----------



## MowgFace

I’m one of those disgusting grubby finger salt cellar savages.

Diamond Kosher salt, finish with Maldons.

Gonna try my hand at making some fleur de sel during the Christmas weekend.


----------



## More_Gyutos

sansho said:


> which leads me to my next point...
> 
> *kosher salt* is a silly choice for a general purpose salt. which boneheaded celebrity brainwashed everyone into using that?
> 
> the overall best choice is clearly fine, granulated salt. it has optimal balance of high surface area:volume ratio (for quickly dissolving) and handling characteristics. it's the most widely sold salt for good reason. i prefer without anticaking agent since smacking it against my palm works fine for me (even in humid areas). i think 'morton natural sea salt' is a fine choice, but the cheapest store-brand thing of salt is also fine.
> 
> View attachment 215113
> 
> View attachment 215114
> 
> 
> i dispense directly from the cardboard container when i'm doing 'bulk' cooking. shaking your hand back and forth while you dispense gives even coverage and predictable flowrate. i also have keep some in a smaller container with a perforated lid for when i only need a little.
> 
> that and a box of maldon are all i need.


Have you tasted Morton table salt on its own lately? Taste it, then then taste Diamond Krystal, then taste Maldon back to back. Then if you can taste the difference you will understand why professional cooks prefer kosher salt and at times Maldon or other sea salt. It’s not a gimmick. It is also easier to use. When I grab a pinch of kosher salt, I know exactly how much it is. When I season fish or meat, I can feel and see how much I am using. It’s much easier to use too much with table salt. Especially true when curing or brining. 

Also, breaking the rules since I bet most people feel this way, but Morton kosher salt sucks.


----------



## jedy617

I don't think I've used a salt besides morton kosher or maldon for at least 10 years


----------



## labor of love

Celtic grey is my general finisher at home. Maldon too. Fleur de sel is excellent. Love cooking with Redmond. 

Impossible burgers are delicious actually.

Knives without Wabi sabi have no soul.

Even fresh truffles taste like ass, use morels or literally any other mushroom instead.

If your eggs aren’t pasture raised they’re not worth eating.


----------



## Wolffire99

esoo said:


> Rainbow Damascus/Cu-mai knives are ugly.


Rainbow Damascus/Cu-Mai knives are ugly.


----------



## tally-ho

Why debating and disserting about salt when there's MSG to enhance flavor...FUIYOH !


----------



## DitmasPork

tally-ho said:


> Why debating and disserting about salt when there's MSG to enhance flavor...FUIYOH !



Ew. I find Uncle Roger to be immensely annoying.


----------



## sansho

i also hate sous vide everything / guga foods guy


----------



## coxhaus

tally-ho said:


> Why debating and disserting about salt when there's MSG to enhance flavor...FUIYOH !



I don't agree that MSG can replace salt. I would never give up salt. I rarely use MSG. Do you guys put MSG in everything? I have a friend that she says she gets headaches eating MSG. It does not bother me.


----------



## jedy617

sansho said:


> i also hate sous vide everything / guga foods guy


Guga is kind of annoying. But I will say he does have some good tips and interesting experiments which I found useful


----------



## Heckel7302

I’ve got this giant block of pink salt that the previous owner of my last house left behind. Never figured out what to do with it. Maybe I should try polishing something on it. 

(Jiro 240 for scale)


----------



## ethompson

Salt polish! *actually prob a terrible idea*


----------



## Heckel7302

ethompson said:


> Salt polish! *actually prob a terrible idea*


Lol. Stainless only.


----------



## Greasylake

ethompson said:


> Salt polish! *actually prob a terrible idea*


"Why I season my knife, not the food"


----------



## Rangen

Heckel7302 said:


> I’ve got this giant block of pink salt that the previous owner of my last house left behind. Never figured out what to do with it. Maybe I should try polishing something on it.
> 
> (Jiro 240 for scale)


Get the awesome knife away from the corrosive salt block right this minute.


----------



## KnightKnightForever

Diamond crystal all day baby


----------



## Heckel7302

Rangen said:


> Get the awesome knife away from the corrosive salt block right this minute.


Don’t worry, I washed it just for being in close proximity.


----------



## Rangen

Heckel7302 said:


> Don’t worry, I washed it just for being in close proximity.


Heh. I woulda done the same. Hey, you never know what those molecules are up to.


----------



## enrico l

Heckel7302 said:


> I’ve got this giant block of pink salt that the previous owner of my last house left behind. Never figured out what to do with it. Maybe I should try polishing something on it.
> 
> (Jiro 240 for scale)
> 
> View attachment 215360




Wonder what kind of polish it would give the Jiro


----------



## BillHanna

Heckel7302 said:


> I’ve got this giant block of pink salt that the previous owner of my last house left behind. Never figured out what to do with it. Maybe I should try polishing something on it.
> 
> (Jiro 240 for scale)
> 
> View attachment 215360


Rest your steak on it.


----------



## Heckel7302

BillHanna said:


> Rest your steak on it.


I don't eat steak. Another unpopular opinion, I guess. I just think steak is gross. Will try it with a big pork chop though.


----------



## Heckel7302

enrico l said:


> Wonder what kind of polish it would give the Jiro


I'm not going to find out.


----------



## esoo

Heckel7302 said:


> I’ve got this giant block of pink salt that the previous owner of my last house left behind. Never figured out what to do with it. Maybe I should try polishing something on it.
> 
> (Jiro 240 for scale)
> 
> View attachment 215360





https://seasalt.com/salt-101/about-himalayan-salt/using-himalayan-salt-blocks


----------



## deltaplex

Heckel7302 said:


> I’ve got this giant block of pink salt that the previous owner of my last house left behind. Never figured out what to do with it. Maybe I should try polishing something on it.
> 
> (Jiro 240 for scale)
> 
> View attachment 215360


People cook on them?


----------



## bahamaroot

coxhaus said:


> ....I have a friend that she says she gets headaches eating MSG...


She must get a lot of headaches.


----------



## coxhaus

bahamaroot said:


> She must get a lot of headaches.


She orders her food made without MSG in Chinese food restaurants. People are pretty good about that here in Texas.


----------



## Ocanada

coxhaus said:


> She orders her food made without MSG in Chinese food restaurants. People are pretty good about that here in Texas.


MSG is naturally occurring in many foods, including tomatoes. The seasoning is just a chemically isolated version of that.

Maybe there is a case that some people are sensitive to large doses, but generally most restaurant dishes (in my experience) don't really use that much. Chinese cuisine in particular doesn't call for a particularly high amount - watch Chef Wang Gang on YouTube, for example. Generally at the last stages of a dish, he will add roughly equal small spoonfuls of sugar/salt/MSG.

Some brief history to 'Chinese restaurant syndrome'








'Chinese Restaurant Syndrome' - what is it and is it racist?


Makers of a flavouring agent launch a campaign against "racist" dictionary entry.



www.bbc.com


----------



## coxhaus

There are a lot of restaurants here in Austin Texas that have signs up made with no MSG.


----------



## Justinv

A steak seared on a salt slab sounds awesome.


----------



## stringer

coxhaus said:


> There are a lot of restaurants here in Austin Texas that have signs up made with no MSG.


MSG naturally occurs in food, including broccoli, tomatoes, yeast, milk, and meat. Would be a pretty strange restaurant without any of those ingredients. They have to put those signs up so that white people who think ethnic food makes them sick will eat there.


----------



## jjlotti

Heckel7302 said:


> I’ve got this giant block of pink salt that the previous owner of my last house left behind. Never figured out what to do with it. Maybe I should try polishing something on it.
> 
> (Jiro 240 for scale)
> 
> View attachment 215360


Buy a cow?


----------



## Heckel7302

stringer said:


> MSG naturally occurs in food, including broccoli, tomatoes, yeast, milk, and meat. Would be a pretty strange restaurant without any of those ingredients. They have to put those signs up so that white people who think ethnic food makes them sick will eat there.


To be fair, Glutamates occur naturally in all those things. Mono sodium glutamates are man made. Doesn’t make most people’s perceived allergies to them any less BS though.


----------



## stringer

Heckel7302 said:


> To be fair, Glutamates occur naturally in all those things. Mono sodium glutamates are man made. Doesn’t make most people’s perceived allergies to them any less BS though.


To be fair, this is a meaningless distinction.


Source: FDA, Questions and Answers on Monosodium glutamate (MSG).
"The glutamate in MSG is chemically indistinguishable from glutamate present in food proteins. Our bodies ultimately metabolize both sources of glutamate in the same way. An average adult consumes approximately 13 grams of glutamate each day from the protein in food, while intake of added MSG is estimates at around 0.55 grams per day."


----------



## stringer

Heckel7302 said:


> To be fair, Glutamates occur naturally in all those things.



This is a meaningless distinction


Source FDA









Questions and Answers on Monosodium glutamate (MSG)


Questions and Answers on Monosodium glutamate (MSG)




www.fda.gov





The glutamate in MSG is chemically indistinguishable from glutamate present in food proteins. Our bodies ultimately metabolize both sources of glutamate in the same way. An average adult consumes approximately 13 grams of glutamate each day from the protein in food, while intake of added MSG is estimates at around 0.55 grams per day.




Heckel7302 said:


> Mono sodium glutamates are man made.




In the same way that all food is man made I guess

Same source

Today, instead of extracting and crystallizing MSG from seaweed broth, MSG is produced by the fermentation of starch, sugar beets, sugar cane or molasses. This fermentation process is similar to that used to make yogurt, vinegar and wine.



Heckel7302 said:


> Doesn’t make most people’s perceived allergies to them any less BS though.


This we can agree on

Same source

FDA considers the addition of MSG to foods to be “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS). Although many people identify themselves as sensitive to MSG, in studies with such individuals given MSG or a placebo, scientists have not been able to consistently trigger reactions.

**Edited a smidge because I accidentally posted while I was still typing.


----------



## Heckel7302

stringer said:


> To be fair, this is a meaningless distinction.
> 
> 
> Source: FDA, Questions and Answers on Monosodium glutamate (MSG).
> "The glutamate in MSG is chemically indistinguishable from glutamate present in food proteins. Our bodies ultimately metabolize both sources of glutamate in the same way. An average adult consumes approximately 13 grams of glutamate each day from the protein in food, while intake of added MSG is estimates at around 0.55 grams per day."


A glutamate is a glutamate, that’s true. I was just being annoying about semantics. It doesn’t make sense to say MSG occurs naturally because the sodium molecule isn’t bonded to the glutamate in nature.


----------



## stringer

Heckel7302 said:


> A glutamate is a glutamate, that’s true. I was just being annoying about semantics. It doesn’t make sense to say MSG occurs naturally because the sodium molecule isn’t bonded to the glutamate in nature.


No worries. I'm just trying to dispel a myth that is based on racist stereotypes.


----------



## Heckel7302

stringer said:


> No worries. I'm just trying to dispel a myth that is based on racist stereotypes.


I’m 100% on that train with you.


----------



## chefwp

My wife tried out a new soup recipe last week, it came out very bland and she asked me if there was any way to save it. Some salt, a hint of lemon juice, and a dash of MSG helped bring some life to the flavors. I convinced her to serve it with some tasty toasted bread and it was a pretty decent meal. I don't use MSG often, I actually bought some a while back to try to use in a cocktail recipe I was playing with (fail!), but sometimes it is just the thing that will get a dish over the finish line, moderation is key.
For those of you that are fans of the Japanese mayo, Kewpie, I believe it is MSG that is one of the main things that sets it apart from other brands.


----------



## jcsiii

MSG is just that natural white powder on Kombu that's been extracted. Afraid of the powder...just use some dry seaweed.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

The MSG headache thing is indeed a myth.


----------



## sansho

stringer said:


> white people who think ethnic food makes them sick will eat there.





stringer said:


> No worries. I'm just trying to dispel a myth that is based on racist stereotypes.



using one racist stereotype to 'dispel' another


----------



## stringer

sansho said:


> using one racist stereotype to 'dispel' another


This is not how racist stereotypes work. Racism is about reinforcing the power of the dominant hierarchy. Saying that there exists a cultural myth among a sizable amount of white people in the USA that Chinese restaurants use dangerous foreign ingredients in their food that make them sick despite zero scientific evidence to the contrary is not racist. It is a fact. Or else there wouldn't be Chinese restaurants all over the USA with signs that say No MSG. Ironically, MSG is used in the processed food at most of the "American" fast food places for stuff like fries and chicken nuggets and sandwiches.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

*sigh*


----------



## sansho

i agree with most of what you're saying. i don't have a problem with you. 

that said...



> a sizable amount of *people in the USA* that Chinese restaurants use dangerous foreign ingredients in their food that make them sick despite zero scientific evidence to the contrary



national stereotype



> a sizable amount of *white people* in the USA that Chinese restaurants use dangerous foreign ingredients in their food that make them sick despite zero scientific evidence to the contrary



racial stereotype



> Racism is about reinforcing the power of the dominant hierarchy.



no. racism is racism.


----------



## sansho

i also don't even necessarily have a problem with stereotypes, racial or otherwise. i don't think they'd exist if there was no absolutely zero truth to them. sometimes they make sense. they are very rarely polite, though, and their wanton use is inconsiderate and inappropriate. especially when applied to an individual.

my point is that if the objective is to dispel them, then i personally think using one to dispel another is the wrong approach.


----------



## Rangen

While I certainly don't freak out about MSG, and I even find occasional uses for it in my kitchen, I get really annoyed when I encounter stock/soups in which it has been used in excess, to attempt to cover for excessively diluted real stock flavors. If you can taste MSG directly, you used too much.


----------



## sumis

perhaps racism is racism. but it is certainly a fact that paying customers are paying customers – even if they wear tinfoil hats, are hypochondriacs, less informed, or … prejudiced. 

.


----------



## btbyrd

Jeeze louize. You can talk about attitudes held by members of certain groups without being racist or relying on objectionable stereotypes. I'm a white American. I believe that Stringer is also a white American. And as a white American, I know plenty of white people in the USA like the ones Stringer was talking about. Making a claim about "a sizable amount of white people in the USA" does not necessarily invoke stereotypes about white people or people from the USA (or white people from the USA).

I think we can all agree that people who seek out Chinese food (and only Chinese food) that is made without MSG are doing something wrong. They either don't understand that MSG is used in all kinds of cuisine and that they should therefore (by their own lights) also stop eating parmesan cheese, Doritos, tomatoes, and boxed/canned broth. Or they have some racist attitudes about food. And in either case, their beliefs rest on falsehoods about the "dangers" of MSG.

Also, racism is racism. You can be a racist without being in a position of privilege or power. Racism doesn't have to reinforce power structures to count as racism. I've met people in academic circles who believe those things, but they're wrong and I've told them why they were wrong. I think the main reason they perpetuate that myth is so that they can turn their perceived victimhood into a "get out of racism free" card. But I digress...

Anyway, back on topic.

Most French fries suck.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Curly parsley is better than Italian parsley.


----------



## sansho

if personal experience counts for anything, mine indicates that MSG phobia is not limited to white people, despite its possible origins (Dr. Howard Steel) and the xenophobia that helped popularize it. anyway, i don't actually care that much. i just think it's a bad way to make an argument.


----------



## btbyrd

If personal experience counts for anything, nobody in this thread has indicated that MSG phobia is limited to white people.


----------



## sansho

i strictly agree with that statement. however



> They have to put those signs up so that white people who think ethnic food makes them sick will eat there.



do you strictly disagree that this is racial stereotyping? do you see positive value in this statement?

how does its value compare to that of the following modified statement?



> They have to put those signs up so that people who think ethnic food makes them sick will eat there.


----------



## blokey

TBH MSG is like salt and sugar, they are perfectly fine ingredients, just take them in modest amount, excessive use will overwhelm other flavors and cause people to be thirsty.
MSG phobia is not limited to any nation tho, there were people against MSG in Hongkong in early 1960s, Mainland China don't get much MSG til 80s but soon you can see a lot of people against MSG, a lot of old masters proud themselves in not using MSG as short cut.
Here's an article on MSG effect on thirst 


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0031938486904129


----------



## sansho

blokey said:


> there were people against MSG in Hongkong in early 1960s, Mainland China don't get much MSG til 80s but soon you can see a lot of people against MSG, a lot of old masters proud themselves in not using MSG as short cut.



interesting. i've thought like that too sometimes. i like msg, but i have an appreciation for umami boosting with natural ingredients. kind of like making your own stock instead of using bouillon.

edit: nvm, i think you answered my question through an edit


----------



## blokey

sansho said:


> interesting. do you know what the beef was? did people view MSG as "cheating" or what?


Same phobia as in other countries, but also pride to be able to develop the flavors by using natural ingredients, some younger cooks do over reliant on MSG and didn't put effort to develop other flavors, Umami is just one of 5 basic tastes, like saltness or sweetness it shouldn't be overpowering. 
Here's a channel run by couple state banquet chefs, they hardly use any msg.


https://www.youtube.com/@LaoFanGu


----------



## coxhaus

I agree. I'm just not having that conversation with her anymore. We have a few friends who are very stubborn about msg and other food things (won't open that can of worms, but you can imagine) and I won't convince them otherwise. There's a lot of "bring your own whatever" in our group of friends and it works just fine.

PS
So, I have a bottle of Accent, MSG, what should I be putting it on besides Chinese food? I am open for suggestions.


----------



## bahamaroot

btbyrd said:


> ....Anyway, back on topic.... Most French fries suck.


Unless you add MSG.

MSG is the most common flavor enhancer used in the food industry. Anyone that thinks they are avoiding it is fooling themselves.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

coxhaus said:


> I agree. I'm just not having that conversation with her anymore. We have a few friends who are very stubborn about msg and other food things (won't open that can of worms, but you can imagine) and I won't convince them otherwise. There's a lot of "bring your own whatever" in our group of friends and it works just fine.
> 
> PS
> So, I have a bottle of Accent, MSG, what should I be putting it on besides Chinese food? I am open for suggestions.



You can put it in pretty much anything you want. Dips and soups are good starters. I'd advise being very conservative to start as it can be overpowering.

Look on the back of a powdered ranch dressing packet sometime. Mucho MSG.


----------



## DitmasPork

HumbleHomeCook said:


> My wife bought a jug of sea salt that broke down easily. I did not like using it and it just sat. I finally put it out on the counter and used it in soups, braises, etc. and for dry brining. For those applications it was fine and I was able to use it up (albeit over a long period) and not waste it.


Yeah, perhaps I was exaggerating when saying I'll toss the fine sea salt. But it is just gathering dust in the rear of the cupboard—I use kosher salt for everything from soups, braises, steaks, partially out of convenience; no room for multiple salts. The fine sea salt does get used when I run out of kosher, and too lazy to buy kosher.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

stringer said:


> while intake of added MSG is estimates at around 0.55 grams per day."


not if i can help it 
*dumps


----------



## DitmasPork

On MSG.

Personally I don't use MSG, viewing it as a shortcut, a vice for cooks too lazy, rushed, or cheap to build flavors. 

When cooking Chinese, Korean or Japanese cuisine (foods I grew up eating and cooking)—I avoid MSG like the plague. Not a fan for the hyper-umami taste that MSG imparts on everything it touches. Not difficult for me to taste MSG used in foods at French, Pakistani, Italian, Chinese or American restaurants.

With Chinese cooking—I'm often chasing an 'authentic,' 'traditional' taste' (subjective terms), that excludes MSG—MSG isn't a requirement for Chinese cooking (see me lazy cook comment above). 
A reference for me is my grandmother's cooking—a talented cook who didn't use MSG, which wasn't even produced commercially when she learned to cook.

Admittedly, there're a few condiments in my kitchen that with MSG—oyster sauce, lao gan ma, etc.


----------



## Rangen

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Curly parsley is better than Italian parsley.


Parsley and bay leaves are the ultimate optional ingredients.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Rangen said:


> Parsley and bay leaves are the ultimate optional ingredients.



FLAME WAR!


----------



## DamageInc

Walnuts are a bad nut.


----------



## Hockey3081

sansho said:


> using one racist stereotype to 'dispel' another



When you leave out the “They have to put those signs up so that” in the full quote about white people who think ethic food who makes them sick, you’re leaving out context to imply he was being racist which is nonsense. It was posted prior, but the “we don’t cook with msg” is rooted in xenophobia and junk science.


----------



## DitmasPork

A bag of MSG is probably the first thing I’d toss out from the kitchen cupboard—especially if cooking Chinese food.


----------



## jedy617

Now that's unpopular


----------



## DamageInc

I've never tried cooking with MSG but after all this discussion I'm gonna try to source some.


----------



## jedy617

DamageInc said:


> I've never tried cooking with MSG but after all this discussion I'm gonna try to source some.


Fish sauce or soy sauce will also give the glutamate punch along with other flavors, but could use it in some recipes. I use both in soups and gravies often. Shouldn't be hard to find msg in pure form tho


----------



## sumis

.


----------



## coxhaus

HumbleHomeCook said:


> You can put it in pretty much anything you want. Dips and soups are good starters. I'd advise being very conservative to start as it can be overpowering.
> 
> Look on the back of a powdered ranch dressing packet sometime. Mucho MSG.


I would say I had MSG in my Taco soup today for lunch, but my ranch dressing powder does not contain it. I use those 2 spices for my seasoning in Taco soup.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

coxhaus said:


> I would say I had MSG in my Taco soup today for lunch, but my ranch dressing powder does not contain it. I use those 2 spices for my seasoning in Taco soup. View attachment 215497



If you used HVR powder it most certainly does contain it.

From their site:

*Ingredients:*_ Maltodextrin, Buttermilk, Salt, *Monosodium Glutamate,* Garlic*, Onion*, Lactic Acid, Calcium Lactate, Spices, Citric Acid, Less Than 1% Of: Calcium Stearate, Artificial Flavor, Xanthan Gum, Carboxymethylcellulose, Guar Gum, Natural Flavor. *Dried_

It also contains soy which might have MSG.









Hidden Valley Original Ranch® Seasoning Mix | Hidden Valley Kitchens®


Add a zesty ranch flavor consumers love to lots of menu items - fries, wings, veggies, mozzarella sticks, burgers and more. Packed in a ready-to-use canister.




www.hiddenvalleykitchens.com


----------



## sansho

i believe he has this one









Homestyle Seasoning Dip & Dressing Shaker | Hidden Valley® Ranch


Shake our Hidden Valley® homestyle seasoning on anything for ranch magic in no time! Whether you prefer to use it in a dip, dressing, or seasoning, we've got you covered!




www.hiddenvalley.com











the umami is probably in the 'natural flavors'? idk


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

sansho said:


> i believe he has this one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Homestyle Seasoning Dip & Dressing Shaker | Hidden Valley® Ranch
> 
> 
> Shake our Hidden Valley® homestyle seasoning on anything for ranch magic in no time! Whether you prefer to use it in a dip, dressing, or seasoning, we've got you covered!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hiddenvalley.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 215500
> 
> 
> the umami is probably in the 'natural flavors'? idk



Thank you.


----------



## parbaked

MSG is a synthetically derived and highly concentrated flavor enhancer.
It contains a much higher concentration of glutamates than occur naturally in foods.
In small quantities it's harmless, but it's It is not hard to see how it can cause a reaction to hypersensitive individuals.

Quantities are controlled in packaged foods, but restaurant cooks use it indiscriminately.

It's definitely not a white, US thing. When I lived in Hong Kong in the 1990s, people had reactions to MSG. It was common to ask for no MSG when ordering. Eventually, some Chinese restaurants began advertising that they didn't use MSG. Foodies felt that good cooks don't need it.


bahamaroot said:


> MSG is the most common flavor enhancer used in the food industry. Anyone that thinks they are avoiding it is fooling themselves.



That might be true when eating out, but it's not that hard to avoid MSG, if one reads ingredients labels.
Whole Foods, for example, do not sell any products with added MSG.

I eat it cause it's in some Asian ingredients that I use, but I'd never think of adding it to something I'm cooking...


----------



## DitmasPork

bahamaroot said:


> Unless you add MSG.
> 
> MSG is the most common flavor enhancer used in the food industry. Anyone that thinks they are avoiding it is fooling themselves.


I'm pretty good at avoiding MSG or other chemical flavor enhancers—aside from a few condiments in the 'fridge. I really don't consume or cook with much canned/packaged ingredients, and tend to shun those with unnecessary ingredients.

TBH, I've been kinda off of restaurants since the pandemic—mainly because prices have spiked, menus are more limited, and restaurant food just isn't as good as it was IMO. So no worries of MSG tainted soups.


----------



## Justinv

HumbleHomeCook said:


> If you used HVR powder it most certainly does contain it.
> 
> From their site:
> 
> *Ingredients:*_ Maltodextrin, Buttermilk, Salt, *Monosodium Glutamate,* Garlic*, Onion*, Lactic Acid, Calcium Lactate, Spices, Citric Acid, Less Than 1% Of: Calcium Stearate, Artificial Flavor, Xanthan Gum, Carboxymethylcellulose, Guar Gum, Natural Flavor. *Dried_
> 
> It also contains soy which might have MSG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hidden Valley Original Ranch® Seasoning Mix | Hidden Valley Kitchens®
> 
> 
> Add a zesty ranch flavor consumers love to lots of menu items - fries, wings, veggies, mozzarella sticks, burgers and more. Packed in a ready-to-use canister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hiddenvalleykitchens.com


Nothing with its first ingredient being maltodextrin has culinary value.


----------



## Dan-

I better stop adding so much kombu to my stocks then


----------



## Heckel7302

Debates about MSG are the the worst of all debates. Unpopular opinion?


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Heckel7302 said:


> Debates about MSG are the the worst of all debates. Unpopular opinion?



Nah. Just go back a page or so and you'll see the worst kind of all debates.


----------



## Dan-

I think we can do better than that in terms of worst. 

The personal pronoun nonsense is useful in the sense that it tells you a great deal more about the person insisting on them than he or she might expect or want.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Dan- said:


> I think we can do better than that in terms of worst.
> 
> The personal pronoun nonsense is useful in the sense that it tells you a great deal more about the person insisting on them than he or she might expect or want.



Okay, well, I'll see ya when this thread gets fun and worthy again.


----------



## BillHanna

Edited due to an Airing Of Grievances. Happy Festivus!

(I misunderstood intent. Rough day on this side coming to an end)


----------



## tostadas




----------



## Dan-

BillHanna said:


> Shut up, Dan


I spent at least 10 minutes coming up with mixed phrasing to make the most unpopular opinion possible.

Ps msg


----------



## spaceconvoy

Dan- said:


> I think we can do better than that in terms of worst.
> 
> The personal pronoun nonsense is useful in the sense that it tells you a great deal more about the person insisting on them than he or she might expect or want.


or they or xey or whatever

but yes, that is a terrible opinion


----------



## Dhoff

puns and dad jokes are the best kind of humor.

When combined they sre unstoppable.

Where does santa like to sleep when on vacation?

Hoe-ho-tel


----------



## blokey

I might be wrong on this one but I don’t think Santa is real.


----------



## spaceconvoy

blokey said:


> I might be wrong on this one but I don’t think Santa is real.


what do you mean? I saw him at the mall last weekend


----------



## DarwellianEmpire

Crab does not taste good.


----------



## M1k3

blokey said:


> I might be wrong on this one but I don’t think Santa is real.


----------



## Michi

If you have not tried black salt yet, put that on your bucket list. It has a _very_ strong sulfur aroma, and is absolutely delicious with eggs.


----------



## Dhoff

DarwellianEmpire said:


> Crab does not taste good.



For me, it depends on type of crab but also freshness. 

Ive tried oven baked Greenland crab. That was one of the best experiences of food in my life, maybe surpassed by the musk ox burger!


----------



## DarwellianEmpire

Dhoff said:


> For me, it depends on type of crab but also freshness.
> 
> Ive tried oven baked Greenland crab. That was one of the best experiences of food in my life, maybe surpassed by the musk ox burger!


I really want to like crab but it really just doesn’t do it for me. I’ve had so many kinds prepared so many ways and even though the smell is tantalizing the taste is always a let down. It’s the only food I feel that way about.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

blokey said:


> I might be wrong on this one but I don’t think Santa is real.



I've been real for 32 years now.


----------



## DitmasPork

DarwellianEmpire said:


> I really want to like crab but it really just doesn’t do it for me. I’ve had so many kinds prepared so many ways and even though the smell is tantalizing the taste is always a let down. It’s the only food I feel that way about.


Why do you continue to eat crab if you don't fancy it? I love it—fresh, canned, frozen, preserved; boiled, raw, grilled or baked—although crab is not to everyone’s liking.


----------



## DarwellianEmpire

DitmasPork said:


> Why do you continue to eat crab if you don't fancy it? I love it—fresh, canned, frozen, preserved; boiled, raw, grilled or baked—although crab is not to everyone’s liking.


I never said I was smart


----------



## coxhaus

Michi said:


> If you have not tried black salt yet, put that on your bucket list. It has a _very_ strong sulfur aroma, and is absolutely delicious with eggs.View attachment 215638


The only black salt I have had was black crystals.


----------



## McMan

DarwellianEmpire said:


> Crab does not taste good.


I will see your crab, and raise you lobster.


----------



## DarwellianEmpire

McMan said:


> I will see your crab, and raise you lobster.


I’ll take 20lbs of boiled crawfish over lobster any day


----------



## DitmasPork

This year and the foreseeable future—I’m shunning crab, lobster and unagi for environmental reasons. Love cooking and eating them, but moved on to different ingredients for now.


----------



## coxhaus

A crawfish boil is always good. 

I was up in Maine a few years maybe 20 or more. I ate lobster 3 meals day. I had never even heard of scrambled eggs and lobster for breakfast. I finally got my fill.


----------



## Dan-

The smaller the lobster the better it is. Anything over 1.5 lbs is too big. Ergo crawfish (and I have done 450lb boils) are the best of all. 

Also, try boiling your lobster in Tony’s crawfish boil. It’s way better, though it’s hard to beat that co-op in Booth Bay.


----------



## Naftoor

DitmasPork said:


> This year and the foreseeable future—I’m shunning crab, lobster and unagi for environmental reasons. Love cooking and eating them, but moved on to different ingredients for now.



Watching videos on unagi makes me quite sad. It looks absolutely delicious, and I’d like to try it once in my life but the entire species seems to have spent the last 10-20 years rapidly approaching extinction due to it’s use so I probably won’t get around to it.


----------



## blokey

I like my Y Tanaka knives, but I really don’t feel that his HT is step above lets say Nakagawa or Manaka. Blue #1 is blue #1, maybe there are super bad examples out there but the one I have and had are pretty consistent, only the Manaka is noticeable different on board.


----------



## Justinv

Dark chocolate is not fit for human consumption. According to recent news. Apparently conditions in growing regions deposit excessive heavy metals on soil/drying beans.


----------



## sansho

conditions?


----------



## Dhoff

DitmasPork said:


> This year and the foreseeable future—I’m shunning crab, lobster and unagi for environmental reasons. Love cooking and eating them, but moved on to different ingredients for now.



Eat the invasive ones, plenty to go around 

Still requires a environmentally sound way of catching them though


----------



## DitmasPork

Dhoff said:


> Eat the invasive ones, plenty to go around
> 
> Still requires a environmentally sound way of catching them though


Wish more trash fish and tasty invasive species were available! There’re a few vendors specializing in such seafoods, but outta my price comfort zone. Easier for me just to avoid certain seafoods.


----------



## blokey

DitmasPork said:


> Wish more trash fish and tasty invasive species were available! There’re a few vendors specializing in such seafoods, but outta my price comfort zone. Easier for me just to avoid certain seafoods.


Asian carp need some effort but can be pretty tasty.


----------



## blokey

BTW if you are in Western States and adventurous enough bull frog is quite nice.


----------



## Justinv

sansho said:


> conditions?


Here is a recent article on heavy metal in chocolate:
ChocolateHeavyMetals


----------



## DarwellianEmpire

Dhoff said:


> Eat the invasive ones, plenty to go around
> 
> Still requires a environmentally sound way of catching them though


We catch and eat lionfish in the gulf coast of America quite frequently. IMO very underrated and pretty tasty while also doing a service to the snapper and grouper population.


----------



## Naftoor

I believe sea urchin is pretty devastating on the west coast of the US. So eating that particular population to near extinction would probably also be beneficial at least until natural habitats regenerate


----------



## bahamaroot

blokey said:


> BTW if you are in Western States and adventurous enough bull frog is quite nice.



We have a restaurant Bullfrog Garden in Louisville. Love frog legs!


----------



## DitmasPork

Naftoor said:


> I believe sea urchin is pretty devastating on the west coast of the US. So eating that particular population to near extinction would probably also be beneficial at least until natural habitats regenerate


No, no, no! Sea urchins are an important part of the ecosystem—exterminate them and the ecosystem collapses. Other contributing factors cause sea urchin overpopulation in certain areas, not the sea urchins fault—i.e. overfishing; people insisting on driving gas guzzling SUVs; etc.


----------



## timebard

DitmasPork said:


> Wish more trash fish and tasty invasive species were available! There’re a few vendors specializing in such seafoods, but outta my price comfort zone. Easier for me just to avoid certain seafoods.


Not unreasonably far from you is Miya's in New Haven, which has an extensive invasive species sushi menu - I'm certainly not gonna say it's the best sushi I've ever had but it's a unique and interesting dining experience for sure. Miya's Sushi


----------



## DitmasPork

timebard said:


> Not unreasonably far from you is Miya's in New Haven, which has an extensive invasive species sushi menu - I'm certainly not gonna say it's the best sushi I've ever had but it's a unique and interesting dining experience for sure. Miya's Sushi


Cheers! If I’m in New Haven, I may need to get apizza right before sushi. There’re a couple sustainable sushi joints in NYC, which will no doubt increase in numbers once the majority of sushi cooks come to their senses. I’m disappointed and disgusted still seeing bluefin tuna at sushi bars.






Thankfully Hawaiian yellowfin tuna is sustainable!


----------



## pleue

DitmasPork said:


> No, no, no! Sea urchins are an important part of the ecosystem—exterminate them and the ecosystem collapses. Other contributing factors cause sea urchin overpopulation in certain areas, not the sea urchins fault—i.e. overfishing; people insisting on driving gas guzzling SUVs; etc.




I don't think you're exterminating purple urchins on the west coast even if you dredge the whole coastline time over time. Sea star wasting disease (which is seemingly a bacterial infection) is a big reason for this among other things. And the effect on the kelp forest and its effect on subsequent populations feels far more impactful to me but I'm no scientist but I do free dive and harvest/spear fish at points in my life. Purple urchin is still tasty but its gonads are much smaller and sporadic. So yeah, if you aim to exterminate by harvesting, my guess is you'd barely make a dent.


----------



## tally-ho

DitmasPork said:


> View attachment 215810
> 
> 
> Thankfully Hawaiian yellowfin tuna is sustainable!


Color seems a bit off, are you sure this is tuna ?


----------



## jjlotti

DitmasPork said:


> Wish more trash fish and tasty invasive species were available! There’re a few vendors specializing in such seafoods, but outta my price comfort zone. Easier for me just to avoid certain seafoods.


If you want some trash fish go buy a pole and take a stroll down to your famous Hudson......


----------



## mpier

With the world population where it is at the biggest one word lie is “ sustainable “ nothing on this planet is sustainable.


----------



## sansho

i broached the topic of (over)population once here.. 
it was indeed an unpopular opinion!


----------



## DitmasPork

jjlotti said:


> If you want some trash fish go buy a pole and take a stroll down to your famous Hudson......


Nah, more interested in avoiding certain ingredients than adding—also more cook than fisherman. Also, can’t afford spending the over $1k on reel, poll, tackle just for trash fish from the Hudson (where I’d not prefer to fish), that’s absurdly silly.

Thankfully Hudson is cleaner than it had been back in the 70s, stripers can be caught there. Love NYC!


----------



## DitmasPork

tally-ho said:


> Color seems a bit off, are you sure this is tuna ?
> 
> View attachment 215829


Yes, fresh Hawaiian ahi.


----------



## Naftoor

tally-ho said:


> Color seems a bit off, are you sure this is tuna ?
> 
> View attachment 215829


I hear it takes 6 years to master sharpening, 7 years to master scaling and 5 years to master removing the ginger organ to not kill your customers


----------



## Martyn

ok here is one - 
forget about jnats. trans ark with forced slurry is the best polishing stone of all time. end of story.


----------



## SwampDonkey

DarwellianEmpire said:


> I’ll take 20lbs of boiled crawfish over lobster any day


Speaking my language


----------



## blokey

I don't get this, this got to be one of the least attractive honyaki out there.








Nigara Hamono - Custom - Blue #2 Abura Honyaki - 180mm Fixed Blade Outdoor Knife - Custom Ironwood Handle - Kydex Sheath


Brand: Nigara Hamono 二唐刃物鍛造所Smith: Yoshizawa Gou 吉澤 剛Sharpener: Yoshizawa Shu 吉澤 州Made in: Hirosaki, Aomori - JapanLine: Custom HonyakiProfile: Outdoor/HuntingEdge Length: 178mmBlade Height: 42mmEdge Steel: Aogami #2/Blue #2Steel Type: CarbonConstruction: HonyakiCladding: N/AFinish: Forced...




strataportland.com


----------



## Dan-

DitmasPork said:


> Thankfully Hudson is cleaner than it had been back in the 70s, stripers can be caught there. Love NYC!


Whereas before, you could go to Times Square.


----------



## Naftoor

Dan- said:


> Whereas before, you could go to Times Square.


One step forward, 2 steps back really


----------



## DitmasPork

Dan- said:


> Whereas before, you could go to Times Square.


Hahaha, stripers not strippers. TBH, I miss the grit and craziness of the old Times Square—where you’d always come back with a bizarre story or experience. Now it’s a tourist theme park, which I try to avoid.


----------



## Greasylake

Speaking of invasives, perhaps someone would like to indulge in the plentiful bayou tilapia? No need to worry about toxins, that's just a myth spread by big tilapia


----------



## DitmasPork

Greasylake said:


> Speaking of invasives, perhaps someone would like to indulge in the plentiful bayou tilapia? No need to worry about toxins, that's just a myth spread by big tilapia
> 
> View attachment 216163


Those would be lovely fried up—if from clean waters! Tilapia can be quite tasty.


----------



## Rangen

DitmasPork said:


> Those would be lovely fried up—if from clean waters! Tilapia can be quite tasty.


There seems to be a wide variation. Most of what I've gotten is good basic whitefish, very suitable for a simple steaming with ginger and scallions (slits cut into the side and rubbed with Kosher salt), or for more a more elaborate Sichuan fried whole fish preparation. But one live seafood market in San Francisco's "real" Chinatown (one street over from tourist Chinatown) had some green-tinged ones that were amazingly sweet and delicious.

On the downside, you can run into ones that taste kind of dirty, and they generally aren't really thick enough to get chunks of fish for fish chowder or stir-fries.

Uh oh. I think I made myself hungry.


----------



## Greasylake

DitmasPork said:


> Those would be lovely fried up—if from clean waters! Tilapia can be quite tasty.


The clean waters are the issue unfortunately. I would love to be able to pop down to the creek and catch a few tilapia then be home in time to make po'boys for lunch, but the waters around Houston are pretty heavily polluted. One fish you might be able to get away with, but the PCBs and dioxins become a threat before long...


----------



## ethompson

Yeah, I’m not eating anything that comes out of the bayous lol


----------



## RecoveringChef

Life was better before social media...


----------



## blokey

RecoveringChef said:


> Life was better before social media...


I don't think that's an unpopular opinion


----------



## sansho

RecoveringChef said:


> Life was better before social media...



true, but what was the point if you couldn't brag about it on social media?


----------



## RecoveringChef

sansho said:


> true, but what was the point if you couldn't brag about it on social media?


Touche!


----------



## enrico l

But, isn’t this social media?


----------



## Dan-

No, forums aren’t social media. What you see isn’t:
1) determined for you by an algorithm,
2) monetized directly, or 
3) sent to the Chinese govt


----------



## tostadas

I order my pizza with extra pineapple.


----------



## KnightKnightForever

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Curly parsley is better than Italian parsley.


.. Are you ok?


----------



## DitmasPork

tostadas said:


> I order my pizza with extra pineapple.


Yum! Hawaiian Pizza (pineapple and Canadian bacon), Meat Lover’s Pizza (pepperoni, Italian sausage, bacon, ham, etc.), Pizza Margherita, Anchovy Pizza, Pepperoni Pizza; Brooklyn, New Haven, Chicago, Naples; thin crust, thick, deep dish; coal/gas/electric oven, skillet, grill—BRING IT! I’ll happily eat a well made pizza with a variety of toppings, in different styles. I’m no purist. Just love good food.


----------



## labor of love

tostadas said:


> I order my pizza with extra pineapple.


----------



## tally-ho

tostadas said:


> I order my pizza with extra pineapple.


----------



## Dhoff

tally-ho said:


>




Considering the look without pineable, Id not trust the opinion of the "cook". Holy hell that looks like it already passed through a human centipede


----------



## blokey

There's no point of buying a Higonokami apart from tradition


----------



## JayS20

blokey said:


> There's no point of buying a Higonokami apart from tradition


??? Cheap and perfect for opening packages


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

JayS20 said:


> ??? Cheap and perfect for opening packages



So is a Douk Douk and it's a much better package.


----------



## Naftoor

If you put ranch dressing or other salad dressing on your taco salad because “it’s a salad”, or cook the taco meat without any seasoning, I hope your knife isn’t sharp enough for tomato’s and you squish them.


----------



## blokey

JayS20 said:


> ??? Cheap and perfect for opening packages


So is Opinel and Ontario Rat


----------



## JayS20

blokey said:


> So is Opinel and Ontario Rat


So you are admitting it's definitely not unreasonable to buy one?
Mine was quite cheap, not much more than Opinel


----------



## blokey

JayS20 said:


> So you are admitting it's definitely not unreasonable to buy one?
> Mine was quite cheap, not much more than Opinel


The others actually have locking mechanism tho. Especially with cheaper D2 folders out there I just find it bit outdated.


----------



## Rangen

Naftoor said:


> If you put ranch dressing or other salad dressing on your taco salad because “it’s a salad”, or cook the taco meat without any seasoning, I hope your knife isn’t sharp enough for tomato’s and you squish them.


Eating ranch dressing is punishment enough.


----------



## More_Gyutos

I sometimes like blue cheese dressing on my pizza.


----------



## Justinv

More_Gyutos said:


> I sometimes like blue cheese dressing on my pizza.


Awesome combo! Never ranch!


----------



## parbaked

Blue cheese > nothing > ranch


----------



## blokey

I still like Durian pizza


----------



## jedy617

Ranch>>>>

Midwest gang unite


----------



## M1k3

No one likes Kranch?


----------



## DitmasPork




----------



## ian

btbyrd said:


> Also, racism is racism. You can be a racist without being in a position of privilege or power. Racism doesn't have to reinforce power structures to count as racism. I've met people in academic circles who believe those things, but they're wrong and I've told them why they were wrong. I think the main reason they perpetuate that myth is so that they can turn their perceived victimhood into a "get out of racism free" card. But I digress...





sansho said:


> no. racism is racism.




One word about this, which has been percolating in my mind for a while:

Let’s compare

1) stereotying based on nationality or race

2) stereotyping based on nationality or race, but where the stereotyped party is part of a disadvantaged minority.

For the purposes of this post, let’s assume that the content is similar in both cases, e.g. is a dismissive comment about personal appearance. I’m not going to discuss things like “Most Chinese people eat rice!” or “Many white Americans are wary of MSG!”

So, do you call both statements racism, or just 2)?

In a vacuum, it doesn’t matter. It’s useful to have words to describe both types of statements. The argument I see presented above in favor of calling 1) racism is “well, the word is race-ism, and 1) is an ism about race”, which is fine. However, the impact of 2) on the stereotyped party is _much_ different than the impact of 1), since it’s more constant and builds upon existing feelings of exclusion and the memory of real harm. So, maybe it’s worth having a separate word for 2)? The argument for calling 2) racism, and not 1), is just that this is what most people think of when they think of the word.

In any case, I think that if you spend too much time defending 1) as “racism” then you risk minimizing the difference between 1) and 2), which is the real point here, definitions aside.


----------



## stringer

ian said:


> One word about this, which has been percolating in my mind for a while:
> 
> Let’s compare
> 
> 1) stereotying based on nationality or race
> 
> 2) stereotyping based on nationality or race, but where the stereotyped party is part of a disadvantaged minority.
> 
> For the purposes of this post, let’s assume that the content is similar in both cases, e.g. is a dismissive comment about personal appearance. I’m not going to discuss things like “Most Chinese people eat rice!” or “Many white Americans are wary of MSG!”
> 
> So, do you call both statements racism, or just 2)?
> 
> In a vacuum, it doesn’t matter. It’s useful to have words to describe both types of statements. The argument I see presented above in favor of calling 1) racism is “well, the word is race-ism, and 1) is an ism about race”, which is fine. However, the impact of 2) on the stereotyped party is _much_ different than the impact of 1), since it’s more constant and builds upon existing feelings of exclusion and the memory of real harm. So, maybe it’s worth having a separate word for 2)? The argument for calling 2) racism, and not 1), is just that this is what most people think of when they think of the word.
> 
> In any case, I think that if you spend too much time defending 1) as “racism” then you risk minimizing the difference between 1) and 2), which is the real point here, definitions aside.


You are exactly right. We already have language to deal with this. Racism is about structures of inequality that dehumanize and subjugate marginalized identities to preserve current hierarchies. Prejudice and discrimination are more general purpose words about applying preconceived generalizations not based on fact or reason to a situation or group of people or whatever. It is not racist for a white cis hetero (mostly) able bodied male citizen to say that lots of white people in the USA are scared of stuff that isn't white enough for them and that is a large part of the reason why they think Chinese restaurants will poison them with MSG while they drink gallons of MSG laden ranch dressing. However, in this case, I'm not engaging in prejudicial or discriminatory behavior because I have spent my life being a white person observing white people doing everything they can to preserve racist power structures while saying that they don't like racism.

Chinese food might seem like an odd place to stake a claim. But one of the foremost ways that I have observed white people reifying these structures linguistically is by arguing that talking about racism is racist. That identifying racist power structures in language and society is racist. And that attempts to dismantle racism are reverse racist. Nevermind the fact, that the argument has no more rational validity than the kindergarten quip, "I know you are but what am I?"

I will admit that talking about how there is a dominant racial class that gains benefits from unfair power dynamics in the way our entire society is constructed makes the people that have historically enjoyed those privileges uncomfortable. It might even make them feel guilty or angry or sad. I don't care. Just because it makes them squirm doesn't mean that it is "reverse racist." Or that reverse racism can even exist. The truth is, we have to talk about this stuff if we want the world to be more just and fair.


----------



## Dan-

Very well stated, @stringer


----------



## Dhoff

stringer said:


> You are exactly right. We already have language to deal with this. Racism is about structures of inequality that dehumanize and subjugate marginalized identities to preserve current hierarchies. Prejudice and discrimination are more general purpose words about applying preconceived generalizations not based on fact or reason to a situation or group of people or whatever. It is not racist for a white cis hetero (mostly) able bodied male citizen to say that lots of white people in the USA are scared of stuff that isn't white enough for them and that is a large part of the reason why they think Chinese restaurants will poison them with MSG while they drink gallons of MSG laden ranch dressing. However, in this case, I'm not engaging in prejudicial or discriminatory behavior because I have spent my life being a white person observing white people doing everything they can to preserve racist power structures while saying that they don't like racism.
> 
> Chinese food might seem like an odd place to stake a claim. But one of the foremost ways that I have observed white people reifying these structures linguistically is by arguing that talking about racism is racist. That identifying racist power structures in language and society is racist. And that attempts to dismantle racism are reverse racist. Nevermind the fact, that the argument has no more rational validity than the kindergarten quip, "I know you are but what am I?"
> 
> I will admit that talking about how there is a dominant racial class that gains benefits from unfair power dynamics in the way our entire society is constructed makes the people that have historically enjoyed those privileges uncomfortable. It might even make them feel guilty or angry or sad. I don't care. Just because it makes them squirm doesn't mean that it is "reverse racist." Or that reverse racism can even exist. The truth is, we have to talk about this stuff if we want the world to be more just and fair.


Out of genuine interest, in your opinion can a person if a given race not be racist towards said race? (I might have read incorrectly into the part about white cis male)

Just to inject some fun:


----------



## sumis

ian said:


> In any case, I think that if you spend too much time defending 1) as “racism” then you risk minimizing the difference between 1) and 2), which is the real point here, definitions aside.



… as well as raising the question: exactly _why_ do you feel it is so important to assert or defend 1) ?

.


----------



## Naftoor

The R word has been dropped, I fear this thread is not long for this world and will be following in the footsteps of the Covid thread.

I must disgorge my opinions while it lives.

Cilantro is a terrible herb and proof that god exists and he hates us. It doesn’t taste of soap, it just tastes gag worthy. It’s ok if it’s used extremely sparingly (if you can see it, it’s too much) to blend with the other flavors but people tend to use it as a garnish which is horrible. Corianders aight though.

Raw onions are not fit for human consumption. If you’re putting them on a burger then stop being an animal and caramelize them. If you put them in a salad you probably put salad dressing on taco salad.

Sausage gravy is amazing if done right and served hot, and horrifying concrete if not made right. The folks I’ve met out in WV who grew up with it apparently can’t tell the difference.

Butter boards seem like a really gross idea. With how porous wood is the last thing I want is to rub a piece of bread over a fat that’s been left to sit and soak up residuals.

TikTok/youtube shorts have done terrible things for cooking videos. They all are cut for folks with extreme unmedicated ADHD who can’t watch something longer than 30 seconds and the only explanation for the video requires you to open other videos or read the description. I’m watching the video to learn first and be entertained second, stop making me put extra work to figure out what you made the freaking video about.

Guy fieri killed the food network. It used to be about cooking and food, now it’s about 30 minutes cooking challenges. That’s probably why shows like the great British bake-off exploded in the US because people are tired of cut throat competition on the goddamn food network.

Just about every YouTube chef loses their magic once they grow large enough to be a recognizable name. Guga, Weissman, babish. Not sure if it’s running out of content or tweaking content to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

People tend to **** on American cuisine unnecessarily. There’s a pretty tremendous amount of food variety, and local specialties. The country is just bigger than Europe, and came about when faster transportation was becoming a thing. The next village does have a unique specialty, it’s just the ‘next village’ in the US happens to be 2 hours away instead of 20 minutes.

Food traditions are generally silly and worth little. Food should stop at a plateau because someone’s great grandfather declared that to be the ultimate fashion, food should continue to the asymptote of flavor perfection, like how all of life continues to evolve into crabs. Also I haven’t found an Italian dish that isn’t improved by garlic, Alfredo included.



DitmasPork said:


> View attachment 216718


I also stared at this for about 30 seconds before I realized it was the message I was waiting to load, and not just an ad.


----------



## Barmoley

Naftoor said:


> The R word has been dropped, I fear this thread is not long for this world and will be following in the footsteps of the Covid thread.
> 
> I must disgorge my opinions while it lives.
> 
> Cilantro is a terrible herb and proof that god exists and he hates us. It doesn’t taste of soap, or just tastes gag worthy. It’s ok if it’s used extremely sparingly (if you can see it, it’s too much) to blend with the other flavors but people tend to use it as a garnish which is horrible. Corianders aight though.
> 
> Raw onions are not fit for human consumption. If you’re putting them on a burger then stop being an animal and caramelize them. If you put them in a salad you probably put salad dressing on taco salad.
> 
> Sausage gravy is amazing if done right and served hot, and horrifying concrete if not made right. The folks I’ve met out in WV who grew up with it apparently can’t tell the difference.
> 
> Butter boards seem like a really gross idea. With how porous wood is the last thing I want is to rub a piece of bread over a fat that’s been left to sit and soak up residuals.
> 
> TikTok/youtube shorts have done terrible things for cooking videos. They all are cut for folks with extreme unmedicated ADHD who can’t watch something longer than 30 seconds and the only explanation for the video requires you to open other videos or read the description. I’m watching the video to learn first and be entertained second, stop making me put extra work to figure out what you made the freaking video about.
> 
> Guy fieri killed the food network. It used to be about cooking and food, now it’s about 30 minutes cooking challenges. That’s probably why shows like the great British bake-off exploded in the US because people are tired of cut throat competition on the goddamn food network.
> 
> Just about every YouTube chef loses their magic once they grow large enough to be a recognizable name. Guga, Weissman, babish. Not sure if it’s running out of content or tweaking content to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
> 
> People tend to **** on American cuisine unnecessarily. There’s a pretty tremendous amount of food variety, and local specialties. The country is just bigger than Europe, and came about when faster transportation was becoming a thing. The next village does have a unique specialty, it’s just the ‘next village’ in the US happens to be 2 hours away instead of 20 minutes.
> 
> Food traditions are generally silly and worth little. Food should stop at a plateau because someone’s great grandfather declared that to be the ultimate fashion, food should continue to the asymptote of flavor perfection, like how all of life continues to evolve into crabs. Also I haven’t found an Italian dish that isn’t improved by garlic, Alfredo included.
> 
> 
> I also stared at this for about 30 seconds before I realized it was the message I was waiting to load, and not just an ad.


You started so well with the first few of your opinions being unpopular and just wrong, but then you started making a lot of sense and ruined it…..


----------



## spaceconvoy

while people love to change the subject when racism comes up


----------



## Rangen

Naftoor said:


> Food traditions are generally silly and worth little. Food should stop at a plateau because someone’s great grandfather declared that to be the ultimate fashion, food should continue to the asymptote of flavor perfection, like how all of life continues to evolve into crabs. Also I haven’t found an Italian dish that isn’t improved by garlic, Alfredo included.



There is something to this (except the garlic part, not gonna put that stuff on my Panettone, for example), but there is a strong counterargument. My culinary perspective is mostly Chinese, and there are dishes that have survived for centuries in an extremely competitive environment. They have survived for good reasons, usually (and bad reasons, sometimes). I get really sick of reading things like "Oh I made Bon Bon Chicken but I didn't have Sichuan peppercorns so I used black pepper." In no conceivable way did you make Bon Bon Chicken, because you cut the essence out of what made the dish great. You made something worse, and stole the name of a great dish to tag it.

We could probably agree that, once you have made the original of something properly, and shown that you get it, feel free to riff on it from there, with suitable disclaimers.


----------



## Barmoley

spaceconvoy said:


> while people love to change the subject when racism comes up


Well, it is a pointless discussion in the form that it is being conducted. This is not the place for it. Moreover, as has been pointed out a few times MSG attitude that sort of started it is not limited to one group of people.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Naftoor said:


> The R word has been dropped, I fear this thread is not long for this world and will be following in the footsteps of the Covid thread.
> 
> I must disgorge my opinions while it lives.
> 
> Cilantro is a terrible herb and proof that god exists and he hates us. It doesn’t taste of soap, it just tastes gag worthy. It’s ok if it’s used extremely sparingly (if you can see it, it’s too much) to blend with the other flavors but people tend to use it as a garnish which is horrible. Corianders aight though.
> 
> Raw onions are not fit for human consumption. If you’re putting them on a burger then stop being an animal and caramelize them. If you put them in a salad you probably put salad dressing on taco salad.
> 
> Sausage gravy is amazing if done right and served hot, and horrifying concrete if not made right. The folks I’ve met out in WV who grew up with it apparently can’t tell the difference.
> 
> Butter boards seem like a really gross idea. With how porous wood is the last thing I want is to rub a piece of bread over a fat that’s been left to sit and soak up residuals.
> 
> TikTok/youtube shorts have done terrible things for cooking videos. They all are cut for folks with extreme unmedicated ADHD who can’t watch something longer than 30 seconds and the only explanation for the video requires you to open other videos or read the description. I’m watching the video to learn first and be entertained second, stop making me put extra work to figure out what you made the freaking video about.
> 
> Guy fieri killed the food network. It used to be about cooking and food, now it’s about 30 minutes cooking challenges. That’s probably why shows like the great British bake-off exploded in the US because people are tired of cut throat competition on the goddamn food network.
> 
> Just about every YouTube chef loses their magic once they grow large enough to be a recognizable name. Guga, Weissman, babish. Not sure if it’s running out of content or tweaking content to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
> 
> People tend to **** on American cuisine unnecessarily. There’s a pretty tremendous amount of food variety, and local specialties. The country is just bigger than Europe, and came about when faster transportation was becoming a thing. The next village does have a unique specialty, it’s just the ‘next village’ in the US happens to be 2 hours away instead of 20 minutes.
> 
> Food traditions are generally silly and worth little. Food should stop at a plateau because someone’s great grandfather declared that to be the ultimate fashion, food should continue to the asymptote of flavor perfection, like how all of life continues to evolve into crabs. Also I haven’t found an Italian dish that isn’t improved by garlic, Alfredo included.
> 
> 
> I also stared at this for about 30 seconds before I realized it was the message I was waiting to load, and not just an ad.



We agree and disagree but either way, I 1000% support your intent!


----------



## Dan-

Stollen >>> panettone 

Especially if you soak the fruit in rum.


----------



## sumis

there are two kinds of food: food that tastes great, and food without copious amounts of cilantro.

.


----------



## Justinv

Dan- said:


> Especially if you soak the fruit in rum.



Nothing tastes good after soaking in rum.


----------



## rmrf

Justinv said:


> Nothing tastes good after soaking in rum.


I agree! Even nothing tastes good after soaking it in rum!

But seriously, thats why I use armagnac if I'm eating it straight or cognac if I'm cooking it. If you don't want to drink it, don't cook (or soak in this case) with it!


----------



## Dan-

Sorry, have to share a proper opinion:
If you don’t like rum (but like brown liquor), try something by Foursquare, Mt Gay, Flor de Cana, or Appleton Estate. 

Also, why the Armagnac/Cognac split?


----------



## jedy617

Just tried flor de cana for the first time recently, really enjoy it


----------



## rmrf

Dan- said:


> Sorry, have to share a proper opinion:
> If you don’t like rum (but like brown liquor), try something by Foursquare, Mt Gay, Flor de Cana, or Appleton Estate.
> 
> Also, why the Armagnac/Cognac split?


I find cognac a little harsh on my throat compared to armagnac. I drink armagnac, but I find most cognac's either too harsh or too boring. If I'm cooking, I don't need great quality because cooking makes it more mild.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

rmrf said:


> I find cognac a little harsh on my throat compared to armagnac. I drink armagnac, but I find most cognac's either too harsh or too boring. If I'm cooking, I don't need great quality because cooking makes it more mild.



30 odd years ago I used to be able to walk into a tiny, dive of a bar named Adrian's in Mt. Home ID and without a word I'd get served up a Black Russian with a Courvoisier floater.

One of the bartenders made it up for me and damn it was good.

I miss that bar.


----------



## Justinv

Cognac is my most used when cooking savory food. I have a modest price brand I really like for cooking. I’m getting a craving for steak au poive now…

I’ve tried spendy bottles of cognac for cooking and its not good due to not adding enough flavor (too smooth and mild). Some roughness is good for cooking. However, E&J brandy is just bad for cooking, you gotta aim higher than that.


----------



## tcmx3

TikTok food may suck compared to what else is out there but it's still leagues better than your average TGIF's so I think we've made some progress, at least. The real issue with TikTok/food youtube it is that when your audience is mostly folks who have never been exposed to good cooking you can just steal stuff and it will go viral. "Thousand layer potato" yeah ************ that's called Potato Pave and it aint new. BTW the person who started that is a trained chef and definitely knew of the original.

Also, Ethan Chlebowski. Guy literally only has a career because Samin Nostra wrote Salt Fat Acid Heat. Launch him into the sun. Just an absolute worthless existence and the world wouldn't be any better or worse if he just stopped making "content" (that word = )


----------



## DitmasPork

tcmx3 said:


> TikTok food may suck compared to what else is out there but it's still leagues better than your average TGIF's so I think we've made some progress, at least. The real issue with TikTok/food youtube it is that when your audience is mostly folks who have never been exposed to good cooking you can just steal stuff and it will go viral. "Thousand layer potato" yeah ************ that's called Potato Pave and it aint new. BTW the person who started that is a trained chef and definitely knew of the original.
> 
> Also, Ethan Chlebowski. Guy literally only has a career because Samin Nostra wrote Salt Fat Acid Heat. Launch him into the sun. Just an absolute worthless existence and the world wouldn't be any better or worse if he just stopped making "content" (that word = )


I only go to TikTok to upload my Japanese knife inspired dance videos.


----------



## M1k3

DitmasPork said:


> I only go to TikTok to upload my Japanese knife inspired dance videos.


Not the "Tide pod challenge"?


----------



## blokey

M1k3 said:


> Not the "Tide pod challenge"?


King 1000 challenge


----------



## M1k3

blokey said:


> King 1000 challenge


That one is easy. Are you even trying?


----------



## blokey

M1k3 said:


> That one is easy. Are you even trying?


Drink the orange slurry or eat the whole brick part?


----------



## BillHanna

blokey said:


> Drink the orange slurry or eat the whole brick part?


Crumble it on cobbler or ice cream.


----------



## Dan-

Too much msg?


----------



## Jovidah

tcmx3 said:


> Also, Ethan Chlebowski. Guy literally only has a career because Samin Nostra wrote Salt Fat Acid Heat. Launch him into the sun. Just an absolute worthless existence and the world wouldn't be any better or worse if he just stopped making "content" (that word = )


I'm actually going to disagree on that one.... say of him what you will but at least he's honest about citing his sources and references, that's actually more than you can say for a lot of YT.
And he has done quite a few videos with deep dives and (blind) testing that I actually found quite interesting. And at least his videos are a lot more organized and structured than many other youtubers. There's far worse on YT IMO.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

One thing I notice about dis place
How we like to tease da other Race
It's a wonder we can live in da same place.


----------



## ThirdJewel

Cooked mung bean sprouts are better than raw mung bean sprouts in pho


----------



## rmrf

ThirdJewel said:


> Cooked mung bean sprouts are better than raw mung bean sprouts in pho


Thats not unpopular, that's being safe. CDC Alert: Mung Beans Sprouts | EH&S .


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

rmrf said:


> Thats not unpopular, that's being safe. CDC Alert: Mung Beans Sprouts | EH&S .


What vegetables haven't had a Salmonella warning/recall in the last 10+ years?


----------



## rmrf

HumbleHomeCook said:


> What vegetables haven't had a Salmonella warning/recall in the last 10+ years?


While its true that many vegetables have salmonella warnings, sprouts (mung bean in particular) are among the most likely to cause food poisoning. At least that's what I remember reading. I always ask for my bean sprouts steamed, especially in Vietnamese restaurants.


----------



## Dan-

Or listeria. It’s weird when cantaloupe is more dangerous than cold cuts. Anyway, when you add pho broth (last, of course) it should be boiling so it cooks the raw tripe and tendon and slice. 

Secondary opinion: tripe is the best pho meat


----------



## M1k3

Being asked what stones I like? Cool!

Telling me I can only pick 2? Not cool!


----------



## Rangen

Dan- said:


> Secondary opinion: tripe is the best pho meat


Well, no one ever said that boiled steak was the highest expression of beef.


----------



## sansho

pho meats, eh?

best: tendon
worst: tripe


----------



## ethompson

Tendon flank and meatball


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

Salad spinners are a waste of space.


----------



## Rangen

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Salad spinners are a waste of space.


OK, I'll bite. How do you dry your lettuce?

More specifically, how do you dry 3-4 heads of lettuce at a time, as my salad spinner does when it is not wasting that precious space on top of the freezer in the garage?


----------



## Bear

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Salad spinners are a waste of space.


For iceberg


----------



## stringer

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Salad spinners are a waste of space.


 How do you wash and dry your lettuce and greens? I am not really fan of gritty collards or soggy romaine, but you do you.


----------



## Dan-

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Salad spinners are a waste of space.


I used to think this too, and I was wrong.


----------



## sansho

i grab greens, step outside, and whip them around a bit until dry. i'd probably use a spinner if i had one, but my way seems to work fine. annoying in the winter, though.


----------



## BillHanna




----------



## ethompson

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Salad spinners are a waste of space.


LOL I’d bet my Yannick I prep more leafy greens than anyone else on this forum and you simply cannot do without one of these if you buy whole heads. Lettuces are filthy and need to be cleaned well and getting them dry enough to take a salad dressing well is basically impossible even at home scale.


----------



## Dan-

BillHanna said:


> View attachment 218475



Yeah the wife slips her lasso of truth around the stems of the greens and whamo!


----------



## HumbleHomeCook

I knew that would be unpopular.  

Don't get me wrong, I use mine, just when space is a premium as it is for me, it just isn't a priority.

It's just my wife and I and I usually prep everything in advance enough that isn't a huge issue.


----------



## ethompson

ethompson said:


> LOL I’d bet my Yannick I prep more leafy greens than anyone else on this forum


In case anyone is tempted to call me on this:
• 330+ bunches of kale
• 650+ heads of romaine 
• 170+ lbs of spinach
• 55+ lbs of arugula 
… daily. Obviously I don’t solo prep it all, but still. Leafy greens are life and you need a salad spinner. Also romaine prices caused me to have multiple panic attacks in November lol


----------



## Dan-

So uh what commercial spinner do you recommend then? The retail ones all break way too quickly.


----------



## MSicardCutlery

ethompson said:


> In case anyone is tempted to call me on this:
> • 330+ bunches of kale
> • 650+ heads of romaine
> • 170+ lbs of spinach
> • 55+ lbs of arugula
> … daily. Obviously I don’t solo prep it all, but still. Leafy greens are life and you need a salad spinner. Also romaine prices caused me to have multiple panic attacks in November lol


It's not a salad spinner you need, it's a washing machine!


----------



## ethompson

MSicardCutlery said:


> It's not a salad spinner you need, it's a washing machine!


The ones we use are roughly the same size as a top loader haha


----------



## Rangen

Dan- said:


> So uh what commercial spinner do you recommend then? The retail ones all break way too quickly.


I got a Matfer, which I am quite happy with (though I would not mind a larger drain opening with a spigot). It was about twice as costly as the ones that look like you'd only see them in a commercial kitchen, but that was a necessary aesthetic choice to keep peace in the family.

Update: I agree with you about the home ones. Crappily made, fragile, too hard to crank, not enough capacity. That's why I went with something more on the commercial side.


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## ch_br

ethompson said:


> LOL I’d bet my Yannick...



Yannick schmannick


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## ethompson

Dan- said:


> So uh what commercial spinner do you recommend then? The retail ones all break way too quickly.





https://www.webstaurantstore.com/hobart-sdps-11-20-gallon-stainless-steel-salad-dryer/425SDPS11.html


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## M1k3

ethompson said:


> https://www.webstaurantstore.com/hobart-sdps-11-20-gallon-stainless-steel-salad-dryer/425SDPS11.html


Love these! Set timer. Do something else. Done.


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## Keith Sinclair

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Salad spinners are a waste of space.


You nailed it is unpopular opinion. We eat salads almost everyday. Salad spinner in constant use. doesn't even get put away.


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## spaceconvoy

I eat salads everyday. And yeah a salad spinner is a waste of space. Only cause lettuce is a waste of salad. Spinach too, they both get soggy, gross, and wilted. Green pepper, tomato, cucumber, carrot, etc. these are proper salad vegetables. Lettuce is a garnish


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## sansho

lettuce can be good on a sandwich (but only when shredded)

lettuce as a salad base is bogus


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## rmrf

spaceconvoy said:


> I eat salads everyday. And yeah a salad spinner is a waste of space. Only cause lettuce is a waste of salad. Spinach too, they both get soggy, gross, and wilted. Green pepper, tomato, cucumber, carrot, etc. these are proper salad vegetables. Lettuce is a garnish





sansho said:


> lettuce can be good on a sandwich (but only when shredded)
> 
> lettuce as a salad base is bogus



Green pepper, tomato, cucumber, carrot makes a completely different salad than a leaf-based salad. They belong in the same hemisphere as grain bowls, pasta salads and potato salads. None of these replace arugula, little gem, frisee, escarole, kale, red leaf, or endive. You're better off making a parsley salad. 

Now, if we're talking about romaine, I only use them if they're amazing, I'm desperate (and then only with some sort of caesar), or as a substitute for the top bread in a sandwich. Iceburg is great for adding a nice crunch to my compost. Even raw cabbage or raw brussel sprouts makes better salad than iceburg.


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## rmrf

Dan- said:


> So uh what commercial spinner do you recommend then? The retail ones all break way too quickly.


Not OP, but I have this one: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/2-5-gallon-plastic-salad-spinner-dryer-with-brake/599SD6.html 

It hasn't broken, and when it does, the gears are replacable. I've burned through 2 or 3 salad spinners before I got pissed and bought this one. It takes a little more muscle to use, but it gets lettuce dry. I heard you can also dry clothes in it, but the 5 gal would probably be more appropriate for that.

I also got pissed at dirt finding its way into salad, so I fill a 12 or 22qt cambro with water and dunk by greens it. I used to fill my sink, but the extra height is a big plus for getting the dirt to separate. Also, I can carry it outside to water plants during droughts.


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## bahamaroot

I've never owned a salad spinner and never even thought I needed one.


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## Keith Sinclair

Wash all lettuce. Grow different types of lettuce in raised Styrofoam fish boxes. 

Arugula grows like a weed up here in the valley. Use it in salads, on sandwich, Salmon burgers. 

After working banquets for years finished my career as Head Gardemanger in charge of cold kitchens in Hotel. Made all the cold stuff salads for buffets line & sit down dinners, dressings, sushi Maki rolls & nigiri.
Sashimi platters the list goes on worked harder union hotel so skeleton crew to get job done. Hot side banquets was easier, but cold side was cooler Also all the ice carvings at Kahala Hilton & bunch of other Waikiki Hotels, Country Clubs, Restaurants. 
Grew word of mouth kept me super busy esp. certain times of the year. We used 5 gallon spinner at work .

Senior citizen had to eat more healthy lost weight eat more fresh organic food. Of coarse make own salad dressing not most of the processed crap sold in stores. People that don't like lettuce are idiots.


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## stringer

rmrf said:


> Not OP, but I have this one: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/2-5-gallon-plastic-salad-spinner-dryer-with-brake/599SD6.html
> 
> It hasn't broken, and when it does, the gears are replacable. I've burned through 2 or 3 salad spinners before I got pissed and bought this one. It takes a little more muscle to use, but it gets lettuce dry. I heard you can also dry clothes in it, but the 5 gal would probably be more appropriate for that.
> 
> I also got pissed at dirt finding its way into salad, so I fill a 12 or 22qt cambro with water and dunk by greens it. I used to fill my sink, but the extra height is a big plus for getting the dirt to separate. Also, I can carry it outside to water plants during droughts.


I have 2 of the 5 gallon model at work. We wash a couple of bushels of collard greens each week. Can't imagine doing it without one of these.


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## Bear

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Salad spinners are a waste of space.


This place is a money pit, now I'm looking at commercial salad spinners for the house. Oxo's are a PITA


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## stringer

Here are my babies. Someone broke the crank on one so I bought another unit and now I have a backup pail and colander. And it is one of the first things I reserve a nice safe space for. Can't run my operation without it.


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## ethompson

M1k3 said:


> Love these! Set timer. Do something else. Done.


Got 6


Bear said:


> This place is a money pit, now I'm looking at commercial salad spinners for the house. Oxo's are a PITA


FWIW I’m pretty sure what I use at home is an OXO and for 2-4 people several times a week it’s plenty good enough


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## Bear

ethompson said:


> Got 6
> FWIW I’m pretty sure what I use at home is an OXO and for 2-4 people several times a week it’s plenty good enough


I’m on my third one, they work but if you drop the lid they break, ask my wife.

Just picked up one of these
1 1/2 gallon should be perfect.


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## Rangen

Bear said:


> I’m on my third one, they work but if you drop the lid they break, ask my wife.
> 
> Just picked up one of these
> 1 1/2 gallon should be perfect.


The OXO also does not drain, so I always found myself doing multiple rounds of emptying the water pool still wetting the bottom leaves, and spinning again.


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## Bear

Rangen said:


> The OXO also does not drain, so I always found myself doing multiple rounds of emptying the water pool still wetting the bottom leaves, and spinning again.


It's a two shot machine.


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## sansho

drill a hole in it?


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## M1k3

stringer said:


> Here are my babies. Someone broke the crank on one so I bought another unit and now I have a backup pail and colander. And it is one of the first things I reserve a nice safe space for. Can't run my operation without it.
> 
> View attachment 218517


Chef's Toys carries replacement tops and gears.


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## stringer

M1k3 said:


> Chef's Toys carries replacement tops and gears.


I did look into getting just a top. But restaurant Depot had the whole thing on sale for less than I could find a replacement for.


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