# Henckels stones



## mainaman (Mar 1, 2013)

I can't remember fully well who makes the new stones in the Kramer line by Henckels can anyone remind me?
I keep thinking rebranded thinner Choseras, but not 100%?

Thanks


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## cwrightthruya (Mar 1, 2013)

It's Chosera...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqqVN3LFFz8


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## mainaman (Mar 1, 2013)

cwrightthruya said:


> It's Chosera...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqqVN3LFFz8


Thanks.
Those Henckels stones are referred to as ceramic, do you know if they are different than the common chosera line?


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## cwrightthruya (Mar 1, 2013)

That I am not sure about.... but their grit ranges fall in the normal Chosera line, so I would assume they are no different.


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## mainaman (Mar 1, 2013)

cwrightthruya said:


> That I am not sure about.... but their grit ranges fall in the normal Chosera line, so I would assume they are no different.


Yes and also the name would not be Chosera if they were not the same stone I would think, but not 100% sure.


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## kartman35 (Mar 1, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFhMGJYhYpU

In this video at right about one minute in he says they're Choseras (Actually says 'choiseras' but whatever...) But they look a heck of a lot more like Shaptons to me...Am I the only one who thinks so??

He continues to describe 'choisera' as the top stone making company in Japan....If they were actually Choceras, you'd think he'd know the company is called Naniwa...


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## dmccurtis (Mar 1, 2013)

Zwilling's Miyabi stones are rebranded Choseras, and their Twin combo stones are rebranded Super Stones. The Kramer stones might be made by Naniwa, but I don't think they're Choseras.


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## kartman35 (Mar 1, 2013)

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/henckels-bob-kramer-carbon-steel/glass-water-stone-set-p124806

Really? Not Shaptons?...they even call them Glass stones...


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## EdipisReks (Mar 1, 2013)

the Miyabis are Choseras (i have the 1k, and it's exactly the same as a 1k Chosera), but i think the Henckels Kramers are Shaptons.


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## franzb69 (Mar 1, 2013)

they've got the glass backing.... like a shapton glass.


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## Knifefan (Mar 2, 2013)

If Mr. Kramer himself says they are Choseras, I think he should know. You can't simply claim something like that in a public video if it's not right.


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## kartman35 (Mar 2, 2013)

Knifefan said:


> If Mr. Kramer himself says they are Choseras, I think he should know. You can't simply claim something like that in a public video if it's not right.



He also says that Chosera is the top Japanese synthetic stone company in Japan...but we all know that Chosera is not a company but rather a product line of Naniwa...

Just look at them....then look at Shapton glass stones...then look at Choseras...


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## Paradox (Mar 2, 2013)

Look like Shapton Glass stones to me. But the grits don't match up. Hard to say. Shapton doesn't offer 400 or 5000 in the Glass line. Might be special for this private label run?


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## franzb69 (Mar 2, 2013)

maybe they're choceras with glass backing?


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## dmccurtis (Mar 2, 2013)

My guess is they're a special run for Zwilling by Naniwa, since they've already got the relationship.


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## cwrightthruya (Mar 2, 2013)

dmccurtis said:


> My guess is they're a special run for Zwilling by Naniwa, since they've already got the relationship.



This is my guess also. I had the opportunity to use one in a SurLaTable, and they feel more similar to the chosera than to the shapton glass stones.


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## labor of love (Mar 2, 2013)

why are the kramer stones so expensive? they appear to be pretty small stones too.


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## Benuser (Mar 2, 2013)

The nagura cleaning stone they sell with them seems to me identical to the one you get with the Choseras. You may get one separately in Europe for 6, but sold with the Kramer they cost some $25, announced as a great saving...


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## labor of love (Mar 2, 2013)

the kramer leather strop looks good. i might get one.


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## brainsausage (Mar 2, 2013)

Knifefan said:


> If Mr. Kramer himself says they are Choseras, I think he should know. You can't simply claim something like that in a public video if it's not right.



That's a very naive statement sir...


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## zitangy (Mar 2, 2013)

Naniwa does make a "ceramic" range. It is a thin piece, like a plate and mounted on a metal plate of that size.

a) hard like hell adn it cost more

b) i have used the 1000 grit also green color > I tried using it over a period of 10 times No joy for me and didn't develop any feeling for the stone. It is somewhere at the bottom of the stone stack

c)Being me, I still prefer the Super Stones series as being soft, it does give a feedback. Apart from ocasionally cutting into it and it dish faster ( being soft) it is still my main stone.

Have fun.

Stay sharp and hv fun..

d


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## Knifefan (Mar 3, 2013)

brainsausage said:


> That's a very naive statement sir...



The video is shown on the SLT website. The Zwilling Kramers were SLT exclusives when they were launched. So you may assume that SLT and Henckels do have some sort of collaboration. Who most likely produced the video? BK? SLT? Or Henckels? I suppose Henckels should know who makes the stones...


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## Paradox (Mar 3, 2013)

Knifefan said:


> The video is shown on the SLT website. The Zwilling Kramers were SLT exclusives when they were launched. So you may assume that SLT and Henckels do have some sort of collaboration. Who most likely produced the video? BK? SLT? Or Henckels? I suppose Henckels should know who makes the stones...



You'd think that would in fact be the case? But clearly it is not. There is NO company called Choesera that makes sharpening stones, the video tells us there is though. There is a company called Naniwa that makes several lines of stones, one of them being the Choesera line? 

If they can't even get that straight in the video why would you assume they can get anything correct?


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## jgraeff (Mar 3, 2013)

```

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Why doesn't someone contact Henkel and ask..?


I'm assuming they would get sued for using chosera name if they didn't have the rights to..


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## Knifefan (Mar 3, 2013)

jgraeff said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> I'm assuming they would get sued for using chosera name if they didn't have the rights to..



Exactly.


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## kartman35 (Mar 4, 2013)

Well, I would like to hereby officially retract my statement that they appear to be Shaptons as it was pointed out by a member here that they felt like choseras, and another who pointed out that Shapton doesn't make the grits that Henckel sells. It just never occurred to me that Naniwa would make a stone that looked so much like Shaptons (glass backing and all)

HOWEVER

The more interesting question is is who really cares..Since Henckels are selling stones that are only 1/4 the thickness of Naniwa choseras (the henckels are 1/4 inch thick) for almost the same price....Would any of US by these stones for that price???? Unless the Henckels are 400% better than Choseras seems like a pretty bad deal to me....


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## franzb69 (Mar 4, 2013)

> The more interesting question is is who really cares..Since Henckels are selling stones that are only 1/4 the thickness of Naniwa choseras (the henckels are 1/4 inch thick) for almost the same price....Would any of US by these stones for that price???? Unless the Henckels are 400% better than Choseras seems like a pretty bad deal to me....



obviously not. =D

we'd rather get choseras straight from naniwa and not a rebranded one with a lot less product.


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## labor of love (Mar 4, 2013)

well, you do get a "professional" discount of some sort at sur la table if you work in the industry. is it 15%? even after that, theyre pricy.


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## Lemieux (Mar 4, 2013)

too expensive... you can get the same thing cheeper


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## MashMaster (Feb 19, 2021)

I am looking at the Kramer stones, why because the 5K supposed to be different and better than the 5K from chosera harder better feedback, but the 3K worse feedback softer is worse. burrification comments and 3K chosera is his fav stove. 

The real reason I am looking at the Kramer stones is do they suffer cracking like the chosera. Obviously they have not sold anywhere near as many stones as chosera. Just curious anyone had are Zwilling Bob Kramer Glass stones crack, spider cracking.


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## Benuser (Feb 20, 2021)

I would be extremely cautious with this kind of information. After all, the gentleman is a salesman as well. 
The Naniwa Pro series are more recent than the Kramer's Choseras. Can't tell about the Kramer series. I know about differences between the NP's and the Choseras. For the ones I could compare — NOT the 5k, only know the Chosera — the NP are thinner, denser, even less susceptible to dishing, have no base and dry faster and more evenly. There's a minor downside to the NP's being slightly more likely to show glazing.
There’s absolutely no reason not to buy the NP3k. As you probably know, the end result it offers is in the JIS4k range. Which is all one needs or even far above with double-bevelled blades used in Western cuisine, including board contact. 
What kind of improvement would you expect after this NP3k a Kramer 5k is supposed to offer? 
What kind of steel is involved? Is it for deburring only? Do you care about a higher polish? Is it for use with single-bevelled blades? 
With the budget a Kramer 5k requires a lot of alternatives are present.


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## MashMaster (Feb 20, 2021)

The kind of improvement I am after over the NP3K with the Kramer is no cracking. I have had chosera crack. This makes them poor investment. I actually really like the chosera/pro 3K. I didn't feel any difference between them but a lot of years between the 3K chosera and the professional I used the 3K when I used to have a straight razor but sold it as a kit when I stopped using the straight razor, it had micro spider web cracks I did lap down a couple mm to make disappear.

I dont mind the nice polish the 5K Chosera produces, it is softer than the rest of the chosera range I think it is super stone soft. I am deeply disappointed with the spider cracking and now full crack in the 10K. If they did not crack I would not think twice about it.

I don't mind making the investment but I dont want to do it again in a few years time. 

Steels vary mostly kitchen knives White#2 Blue#2 X55CrMo14/DIN 1.4110 SWIBO 52100 plus a few EDCs spiderco. Been eyeing off Elmax kitchen knife from a certain custom knife maker for awhile..


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## Benuser (Feb 20, 2021)

I meant: what kind of improvement do you expect from the edge after a NP3k?


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## MashMaster (Feb 20, 2021)

People have report after lapping a bit the kramer stone performs more like a chosera 3k. But it is really about crack prevention.


Benuser said:


> I meant: what kind of improvement do you expect from the edge after a NP3k?


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