# Beginner - Looking for a decent knife



## cpotter638 (Sep 12, 2016)

*LOCATION
What country are you in?*
United States.

*

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?*
Chef's knife.

* Are you right or left handed?*
Right.

*Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?*
Western.
*
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)*
No.
*
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?*
$200.



*KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?*
Only at home.

* What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)*
Slicing, chopping, and mincing vegetables. Slicing and trimming meats.
*
What knife, if any, are you replacing?*
8" chef's knife that came in a $100 block at a department store. It's probably 15-20 yrs old.
*
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)*
Pinch grip.
*
What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)*
Push cut, rock, chop.

* What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?*

Don't care about aesthetics very much. Want the knife to be comfortable. Don't have huge hands, so don't want a massive handle. Would like a knife that has booth edge retention and is easy to sharpen.

*KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)*
We have a pretty crappy plastic cutting board. If I'm going to buy a quality knife, I also plan on purchasing some better cutting boards. After researching, I'll probably buy 2 nice cutting boards - one for raw meat and one for all others. Any recommendations here would also be appreciated.

* Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)*
20 years ago I was OK with a honing steel. Have not sharpened since then. Have never used a sharpening block. 
*
If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)*
Yes.
*
Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)*
Yes. But don't know what sharpening option would be best. I'm pretty naïve here. Honing steel would be easy for me to pick up again. But sharpening block may be better? Haven't researched enough to know.



*SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS *
This weekend, I was looking at knives. Almost bought a Wusthof Epicure 9" Chef's Knife. I liked the feel of the knife very much, but thought I'd research before purchasing. Thanks for all of your help!!!


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## Benuser (Sep 12, 2016)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/28654-Misono-Swedish-210mm-Gyuto-(like-new)


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## foody518 (Sep 12, 2016)

By sharpening block are you referring to whetstones?

Do you have a budget for either sharpening supplies and/or the cutting boards?


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## frog13 (Sep 12, 2016)

You'll get a lot of direction here, but I thought I would throw these two into the ring, good knives and under your budget ....... 

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-vg10-damascus-gyuto-210mm-western-handle/

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-vg10-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-with-custom-octagonal-bubinga-handle/


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## richard (Sep 12, 2016)

What length of chef knife are you wanting?


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Sep 12, 2016)

OK, kick me for again recommending a Global or upmarket Wusthoff and the manufacturer-endorsed sharpening device for that kind of application. Or maybe a reputable Sabatier brand (K Sabatier, Thiers Issard, vintage Jeune Garanti...).

Are you willing to deal with the added attention needed of a non-stainless knife?


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## JaVa (Sep 12, 2016)

+1 for the Tanaka VG10 western handle
It is a serious all round performer. I like that recommendation for anyone who's new to Japanese kitchen knives. It's an easy transition from european chef knives with all the J-knives benefits and without most of their challenges. And it's a far superior knife compared to a Wusthof. It has far better edge retention and is much easier to sharpen. Being quite inexpensive it's a safe option to get your feet wet with. I still love mine even when compared to a few of my more expensive knives.

Japanese knives don't respond well to honing. A very easy, quick and effective way to keep your edges sharp is a flat sharpening diamond file with 600/1000 grit sides. That's how I kept my knives sharp for years and years before I started learning sharpening with Japanese water stones.

Honing will only realign your edge when it's bent and it can micro chip your edge in the proses. The round shape of the honing rod will start slowly gauging the holes bigger that are created by chipping. If you use a flat diamond file, it removes metal giving you a crisp new bevel. Meanwhile that'll keep your knives sharp until you get interested in sharpening stones. (if you do?) That's what I keep preaching my kitchen staff all the time.


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## Talim (Sep 12, 2016)

I would go for the misono on bst as well and spend the rest on a set of sharpening stones.


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## richard (Sep 12, 2016)

I was also thinking of recommending Misono as I think most will find their western handles quite comfortable. But I don't know if the OP is fully prepared for something as reactive as the Misono Swedish carbon. Would instead recommend 440 series, or possibly UX10 in either 210 or 240 mm size.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Sep 13, 2016)

Is VG10 a good idea to recommend to someone wary of sharpening? While it will keep an edge for sure, once it does need resharpening it will be comparatively difficult... and the factory edge might not be long lasting also, requiring first sharpening very soon...


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## Fedusa (Sep 13, 2016)

How about an AEB-L knife? CKTG has some for cheap and they're pretty pure steels akin to sharpening carbon steel.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Sep 13, 2016)

Uh... you are aware there is an anti-CKTG politics game played throughout this forum, as an identity-refining exercise I guess?


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## cpotter638 (Sep 13, 2016)

*


foody518 said:



By sharpening block are you referring to whetstones?

Do you have a budget for either sharpening supplies and/or the cutting boards?

Click to expand...

*
Yes, was referring to whetstones. Sorry for my misuse of terminology. Don't have a budget for sharpening supplies or cutting boards. 

Re: sharpening supplies - would be willing to spend more to make the sharpening process easier / quicker. Again, I have little knowledge of knife sharpening other than using a honing steel.

Re: cutting boards - would like to get some quality boards, but nothing ridiculous. Don't have a frame of reference as to how much a nice cutting board would cost.


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## bennyprofane (Sep 13, 2016)

Just received my second Teruyasu Fujiwara Nashiji knife. It is White #1 steel in stainless clad, I have read that his heat treatment of the steel is one of the best, and it really does take an amazing edge.
You can get the 8" (210mm) Gyuto (including free shipping) for 180$ at http://www.teruyasu.net/products/detail_5.html 

This knife will probably be my next purchase as well. I have the western handle on my petty and actually like it a lot. His Fit & Finish is not the best but that doesn't compromise usability at all and personally, I like the rustic feel and appearance better than any "factory" knife. Total recommendation!


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## cpotter638 (Sep 13, 2016)

richard said:


> What length of chef knife are you wanting?



In the past, I've used an 8". When looking at the Wusthof knives, I looked at both 8" and 9". I had planned on getting an 8" as I'd never used a 9" before. But cutting with the 9" seemed easier / quicker. Currently, looking at both 8" and 9" with slight preference of 9".


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## cpotter638 (Sep 13, 2016)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> OK, kick me for again recommending a Global or upmarket Wusthoff and the manufacturer-endorsed sharpening device for that kind of application. Or maybe a reputable Sabatier brand (K Sabatier, Thiers Issard, vintage Jeune Garanti...).
> 
> Are you willing to deal with the added attention needed of a non-stainless knife?



After researching, I think I'd like to stick with a stainless knife.


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## JaVa (Sep 13, 2016)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Is VG10 a good idea to recommend to someone wary of sharpening? While it will keep an edge for sure, once it does need resharpening it will be comparatively difficult... and the factory edge might not be long lasting also, requiring first sharpening very soon...



Well, the thing is it's Tanaka VG10 and I guess that makes all the difference in the world. Now I don't have much experience with VG10 over all, but my Tanaka is actually quite a breeze on the stones. It's Noticeably easier to get sharp then my Mac Pro or Mac Superior (I don't know what steel Mac uses, but it has similar qualities with VG10) or my colleagues Tojiro DP. 

So in my experience, yeah I'd say it's a good idea. 
...at least regarding Tanaka.


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## bennyprofane (Sep 13, 2016)

JaVa, would you say Tanaka's VG10 compares well to other high quality stainless steels like AEB-L?


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## ThEoRy (Sep 13, 2016)

In who's hands are any steel considered high quality? Both vg10 and aebl run the gamut from ****** to excellent depending upon the maker.


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## bennyprofane (Sep 13, 2016)

Sorry, I should have perhaps specified well treated AEB-L like Ashis or even DT. Haven't seen much VG10 love on this forum and was interested how Tanakas VG10 compares.


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## foody518 (Sep 13, 2016)

Oof, those two groups occupy somewhat different price ranges, hard to directly compare.
Have not had troubles sharpening Tanaka VG10 nakiri, nor my Tojiro DP. And I started my J-knife/sharpening journey on these knives and really godawful cheap stainless


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## laxdad (Sep 13, 2016)

Since everyone is giving you knife recommendations, I'll suggest some boards. 

At home, we have an end grain walnut board for veggies and and a Sani-Tuff for meat. End grain boards tend to cost more than edge grain because of the labor involved in manufacturing a butcher block. However, end grain is gentler on your knives. Maple, cherry, and walnut are the woods you traditionally find. There are less expensive end grain boards using teak or acacia, but I have no experience with them. Reportedly, teak wood can contain sand which is tough on your knives. Another option is hinoki (Japanese cypress). These are edge grain boards, but the hinoki wood is very soft (~1/3 of maple, or ~1/2 of walnut or cherry).

Our Sani-tuff board is new, but so far so good. It's made from synthetic rubber and is said to be easier on your edges than poly boards. I couldn't find a synthetic rubber board at any of the local restaurant supply stores, so we ordered it on the internet from KaTom. One word of caution if you order from KaTom. Some of their boards are sold in multi-packs, not singly. I placed my order by phone to make sure I was only getting one board, not 3 or 4 or 6.


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## JaVa (Sep 13, 2016)

bennyprofane said:


> Sorry, I should have perhaps specified well treated AEB-L like Ashis or even DT. Haven't seen much VG10 love on this forum and was interested how Tanakas VG10 compares.



Sorry, can't help you there. I have no experience with the AEB-L steel. 

I have a few times wondered where the bad rep for VG10 comes from. From my limited experience with the VG10 knives I've used, it's been from good to great steel. I've had no deburring issues, no chipping, it feels ok on the stones, gets nice and sharp and has a decent edge retention. It's no carbon by any means, but a very nice steel over all when treated right by the maker. There's still many very respected smiths using it (like Tanaka) and I don't think that would be the case if the problems would be the steel itself.

Maybe it just doesn't respond well to mass production (and/or shortcuts made in mass production) and because there's so many brands mass producing it and there's just so many such knives out there that that's what's causing the over all reputation.

Also as it's probably the most used "better" ss in mass production and that's why it is losing some of it's "special-ness" too?

Whoops, sorry for the thread hijack. Maybe we should get this back on track. :shy:


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## cpotter638 (Sep 13, 2016)

Curious. How about Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef 240mm. Priced around $155.

Thanks.


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## cpotter638 (Sep 13, 2016)

laxdad said:


> Since everyone is giving you knife recommendations, I'll suggest some boards.
> 
> At home, we have an end grain walnut board for veggies and and a Sani-Tuff for meat. End grain boards tend to cost more than edge grain because of the labor involved in manufacturing a butcher block. However, end grain is gentler on your knives. Maple, cherry, and walnut are the woods you traditionally find. There are less expensive end grain boards using teak or acacia, but I have no experience with them. Reportedly, teak wood can contain sand which is tough on your knives. Another option is hinoki (Japanese cypress). These are edge grain boards, but the hinoki wood is very soft (~1/3 of maple, or ~1/2 of walnut or cherry).
> 
> Our Sani-tuff board is new, but so far so good. It's made from synthetic rubber and is said to be easier on your edges than poly boards. I couldn't find a synthetic rubber board at any of the local restaurant supply stores, so we ordered it on the internet from KaTom. One word of caution if you order from KaTom. Some of their boards are sold in multi-packs, not singly. I placed my order by phone to make sure I was only getting one board, not 3 or 4 or 6.



Thanks for the suggestions. Any specific brand or site to purchase a good end grain board?

I'll check out the Sani-tuff boards.


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## laxdad (Sep 13, 2016)

www.cuttingboard.com has a big selection

www.theboardsmith.com if you want something really nice

WS, SLT, and especially C&M are good if you catch the sales. We purchased our two Boos walnut boards from C&M several years ago, and am glad we did. The price of walnut has really increased.

Sani-Tuff, Hi-Soft, and the other synthetic rubber cutting boards seem to be limited to internet restaurant supply stores and Amazon. Korin carries some. We visited three large restaurant supply stores in Los Angeles (including Surfas) and none of them had these boards.


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## foody518 (Sep 13, 2016)

I've got a cherry end grain board from Top Chop Butcher Block. 24x18x2 for I recall under $150. Lots of oiling after getting it and a little buffing with micromesh pads and it feels glorious. The one manufacturing error I guess if it is termed like that is that the board is not dead flat. It will rock a little from all 4 corners not being at the same height, so I stick a folded paper towel under one of the corners and it completely mitigates that problem.


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## Fedusa (Sep 13, 2016)

I think the main reason is it doesn't sharpen or hold an edge well, granted my experience has only been with Globals. There's also mention that certain makers treat VG10 better than others giving better edge retention, maybe edge taking too.

It just seems like the generic cheap do it all steel and because it has a name that's referenced in many other knives, the price goes up. What is it they say, you can have it fast, cheap, or good; pick 2.


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## foody518 (Sep 13, 2016)

I thought Global knives used CROMOVA 18 which is not very much like VG10?


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## Fedusa (Sep 13, 2016)

My bad, you're right. Disregard what I said about how the steel performs.


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## richard (Sep 13, 2016)

cpotter638 said:


> In the past, I've used an 8". When looking at the Wusthof knives, I looked at both 8" and 9". I had planned on getting an 8" as I'd never used a 9" before. But cutting with the 9" seemed easier / quicker. Currently, looking at both 8" and 9" with slight preference of 9".



It seems from your other responses/questions you like the feel of something European like a Wusthof as a reference point. For a Japanese knife that feels a bit similar, with a comfortable handle, nice balance, good fit and finish, easy to sharp/solid edge holding within your budget, my top picks for you would be:

Masahiro MV 240 mm gyuto






Misono 440 240 mm gyuto 





Gesshin Stainless 240 mm gyuto





They have a similar style of handle, generally similar profiles, good F&F, will be easy to sharpen and at around HRC59, will have pretty solid edge retention. The Sakai Takayuki grand chef is generally similar to these, but the hardness reported on it is all over the place, but there was a thread on this forum that clarified that it is hardened to ~HRC58. AEB-L when heat treated well can be very good, but in this case it seems they are skipping cryo and heat treating it softer for greater toughness (and also lower cost).

Yeah it would probably still be a decent choice to go with that, but with some of the ones listed here you can get equal or better quality and even save a little money, and the online community has a lot of collective experience with Masahiro and Misono Western knives, and they are also well-known and respected in pro circles. Similarly Jon at JKI who carries the Gesshin gets a lot of deserving praise as a vendor.

I'd say there isn't very much that separates them overall, so you could let the subtle differences in the handle, the look or the cost be your deciding factor. I'll also mention that in my experiences Misonos while very well finished and come appearing as though they are fully sharpened, still need to be properly sharpened on whetstone to unleash their full potential. The one Masahiro I came across had not been deburred, so it also had to be sharpened before use. You might have some luck asking Jon if he could do you a favor and touch up the edge for you before shipping the Gesshin...his website says he has a big sharpening backlog right now, but if you're not in a rush this might be a good bet to go this route.


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## cpotter638 (Sep 15, 2016)

Thanks for everyone's help. Much appreciated.

I've decided on a 240mm stainless gyuto. I like each of the 3 knifes that Richard suggested. I'm going to spend some time looking at pricing. Not yet familiar with online knife retailers. 

Re: sharpening:
JaVa suggested looking into a flat diamond file. I've searched a little. Something like a DMT Double sided file (fine - 600 / extra fine -1200)? I've looked at some sharpening videos using diamond file and whetstones. I probably could get comfortable with either. The diamond file I just referenced costs around $30. What pricing am I looking at for whetstones? And I'm a little confused about the sharpening process as a whole. If I purchased a diamond file or whetstone, is this all I would ever use to sharpen? Is there any place for a honing steel with Japanese knives?

Thanks again.


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## JaVa (Sep 15, 2016)

The diamond file is a little bit of a cheat, but it really works ok. It's a fast and easy fix and a much better option then a honing rod. Also the file will not damage your edge. I sometimes recommend the diamond file when I get the sense that someone might feel water stones too much of a hassle to learn sharpening on. 

Some knife nuts might sniff at the idea of the diamond file because you wont get the real potential out of your knives with it. 1200 grit is about the finest option and that's still quite coarse, but with it you can get a knife nice and sharp. The only down side is, it leaves the edge still a bit rough and you wont get that smooth and crisp edge that would be possible with the stones. 

...But Japanese water stones is the best option by far and if your open to take the time to learn sharpening with them, later you'll be happy you did. Most recommend that the way to start is to get a 1000/6000 grit combo stone. And yes that's all you need to keep your knives very sharp. That could be all you ever need. 

After few years of practise I still don't long for anything more then that, but having one stone more in the 3000-4000 grit range could be a good idea. Some say it helps to work through the progressions step by step with the added stone, but you won't need it for a long time.

The cheapest King combo stone is around 40$. It's quite basic and most start with that. I use it and it's fine, but there are better options out there and others with more knowledge about them will chime in for sure.

...And finally: no there's no real benefit in honing J-knives.


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## richard (Sep 15, 2016)

You can take a look at the last couple pages from another recent beginner thread to see a list of some different recommendations.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/28545-Beginner-looking-for-a-good-knife/page6

As for the diamond file, I have a DMT extra fine myself, but it definitely wouldn't be my choice for sharpening a fine sharpening knife. It's not going to get you the qualities of a wonderfully polished edge off a 5000 or 6000 grit stone. I use my DMT for sharpening peeler blades and the such.

As for a honing rod, a knife like the ones I've mentioned are right about at the hardness limit where it is okay (though not preferred) to use a steel to hone the edge using light, gentle pressure. A smooth steel is definitely preferred over a grooved steel, or you can get a fine ceramic rod like a Mac or Kyocera for around $20. But really, if you already have a usable steel, it's OK to help maintain the edge between sharpenings, but definitely don't go and spend a lot of money on buying a new honing steel. Instead one of the highly suggested methods (also my choice) is to strop/touch up the edge on your fine whetstone (~5000 - 6000 grit) either wet or dry as you prefer (I use wet, and my stones are splash and go, which are very convenient). In a pro environment where the pace is hectic, volume is high, and you may not have time to break out a whetstone, then having something like a fine ceramic rod is kind of handy.

As for pricing of those knives I suggested, I did look this up on Google and a few well known online vendors, and the best price I currently found for the Masahiro and the Misono were on Amazon. The Gesshin is available from Japanese Knife Imports.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-240mm-stainless-gyuto


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## BlueWolf (Sep 16, 2016)

You should get a Japanese Cyprus cutting board. I like mine fine it's basic good on the knoves and naturally anti-bacterial.


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## JBroida (Sep 16, 2016)

richard said:


> You can take a look at the last couple pages from another recent beginner thread to see a list of some different recommendations.
> 
> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/28545-Beginner-looking-for-a-good-knife/page6
> 
> ...



FYI, the picture you posted is our gesshin ginga 240mm stainless gyuto, not the gesshin stainless 240mm gyuto, which would be this one:


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## KeithA (Sep 18, 2016)

Last night, I told my wife that I'd probably buy all of my knives in the future from Jon of Japanese Knife Imports, due to my being stunned by what a joy my most recent knife purchase from them has been. Their customer service is beyond the pale and, if you call them, they'll listen to your needs and parameters and really guide you as far as what knife would best fit your purposes. They'll probably give your purchase a tune up on their stones prior to sending it to you, if you ask, but you might have to wait a bit longer as they're backlogged at the moment with sharpening orders. They have some amazing knives there at a very competitive price, but Jon has also advised that the prices will be increasing due to the fact that a great segment of the Japanese knife making community is in the process of raising their prices.


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## daveb (Sep 18, 2016)

Yep


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 18, 2016)

Hand written notes from Sarah is a really nice touch too.


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## cpotter638 (Sep 19, 2016)

Recent posts have convinced me. I'm going to go with the Gesshin. I'd like to get a saya for it as well, but didn't see any on Jon's site. If need be, I can purchase one off of Amazon.

I need to research sharpening supplies some more. Could start with the King combo stone. Saw some posts in favor of the Gesshin stones, but those are probably more than I'd like to spend to start. Don't know if stepping up from the King combo stone is worth it at this point or not. Also, what is recommended for flattening the stones? Saw the diamond flattening plate on Jon's site, but that is more than I need at this point.


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## JBroida (Sep 19, 2016)

cpotter638 said:


> Recent posts have convinced me. I'm going to go with the Gesshin. I'd like to get a saya for it as well, but didn't see any on Jon's site. If need be, I can purchase one off of Amazon.
> 
> I need to research sharpening supplies some more. Could start with the King combo stone. Saw some posts in favor of the Gesshin stones, but those are probably more than I'd like to spend to start. Don't know if stepping up from the King combo stone is worth it at this point or not. Also, what is recommended for flattening the stones? Saw the diamond flattening plate on Jon's site, but that is more than I need at this point.



we've got 'em (the sayas)... just give me a call... they run $35


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## JaVa (Sep 20, 2016)

You really can't go wrong with Gesshins and JKI. Good call! :doublethumbsup:


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## Marek07 (Sep 20, 2016)

KeithA said:


> Last night, I told my wife that I'd probably buy all of my knives in the future from Jon of Japanese Knife Imports, due to my being stunned by what a joy my most recent knife purchase from them has been. Their customer service is beyond the pale and, if you call them, they'll listen to your needs and parameters and really guide you as far as what knife would best fit your purposes. They'll probably give your purchase a tune up on their stones prior to sending it to you, if you ask, but you might have to wait a bit longer as they're backlogged at the moment with sharpening orders. They have some amazing knives there at a very competitive price, but Jon has also advised that the prices will be increasing due to the fact that a great segment of the Japanese knife making community is in the process of raising their prices.



I think you are praising Jon of JKI and quite rightly. Although I've yet to buy from him (shipping costs from USA to Oz) a major factor, he's been extremely helpful to me on many ocassions. Brilliant knowledge and seriously customer focussed. However, you used the term "beyond the pale". In Australian English at least, the expression means "Outside the bounds of acceptable behavior". This is obviously not what you meant. Perhaps the term "beyond reproach" would have been a much better fit for your intended meaning.

Sorry - I'm a pedant at heart.


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## richard (Sep 20, 2016)

Hope you really enjoy your new knife.



cpotter638 said:


> Don't know if stepping up from the King combo stone is worth it at this point or not. Also, what is recommended for flattening the stones? Saw the diamond flattening plate on Jon's site, but that is more than I need at this point.



The 1000# side on the King dishes (becomes not flat) *really easily. As in after one or two sharpening sessions easy. Going to a better stone - not only are they a much greater pleasure to use, but IMHO you will learn much quickly and effectively. They will stay flatter longer, cut faster (so you can work up a burr more easily), and are more stable providing a significantly greater width and surface area. They will also be able to better handle harder steels should you decide to go into them one day.

The Gesshin combo stone is good but a bit spendy. I highly recommend considering the Shapton 1000 and 5000 Kuronomaku off Amazon; you can get both for just under $100, and you will be pretty much set after that. I got my Shapton 1000 from Tokyo over ten years ago, and I've probably sharpened a few dozen knives on it, and it has still has plenty of life left (over 80%).

As for a budget flattening solution, I haven't tried it (maybe others can comment), but I've before heard of using sandpaper and the basement concrete floor. There are cheaper flattening stones, but they are a bit of a stop gap measure since they are just coarse stones with channels cut into them, and they can become non flat.


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## KeithA (Sep 20, 2016)

Oops. Sorry for that. Should have used above and beyond.


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## richard (Sep 20, 2016)

Further to my post, it did occur to me after that harder stones like the Shapton are less forgiving to those starting out with sharpening, who may not be as practiced at keeping the angle steady. Oh well...I suppose that is the trade off for them wearing and dishing slowly (less feedback as well).


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## cpotter638 (Sep 20, 2016)

richard said:


> The 1000# side on the King dishes (becomes not flat) *really easily. As in after one or two sharpening sessions easy. Going to a better stone - not only are they a much greater pleasure to use, but IMHO you will learn much quickly and effectively. They will stay flatter longer, cut faster (so you can work up a burr more easily), and are more stable providing a significantly greater width and surface area. They will also be able to better handle harder steels should you decide to go into them one day.
> 
> The Gesshin combo stone is good but a bit spendy. I highly recommend considering the Shapton 1000 and 5000 Kuronomaku off Amazon; you can get both for just under $100, and you will be pretty much set after that. I got my Shapton 1000 from Tokyo over ten years ago, and I've probably sharpened a few dozen knives on it, and it has still has plenty of life left (over 80%).
> 
> As for a budget flattening solution, I haven't tried it (maybe others can comment), but I've before heard of using sandpaper and the basement concrete floor. There are cheaper flattening stones, but they are a bit of a stop gap measure since they are just coarse stones with channels cut into them, and they can become non flat.



Yesterday, I watched some of Jon's sharpening videos and looked through several forum posts for sharpening equipment. A couple of questions:

1.) I'll probably step up from the King Combo stone. Reading through forum postings, there was a lot of love for the Bester 1200 and Suehiro Rika 5k. Looks like this can also be had on Amazon for around $100. How does this combination of stones compare with the Shapton 1000 and Kuromaku 5000 suggested above?

2.) If I purchase stones of the above caliber, how often do they need to be re-flattened? After how many sharpenings (I'm sure this depends on the skill level of the sharpener)? Any more opinions on budget flattening solutions would also be welcomed.

3.) After watching Jon's sharpening videos, I can probably handle the sharpening. Removing the burr seems a little more daunting to me, but maybe I'm overthinking this. What is the easiest way to remove the burr for a newbie? Stroping with the fine stone (strokes looked more daunting than general sharpening method), stroping with stone / newspaper, stroping with a separate leather strop, or some other method?


Thanks again for all the help.


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## frog13 (Sep 20, 2016)

cpotter638 said:


> Yesterday, I watched some of Jon's sharpening videos and looked through several forum posts for sharpening equipment. A couple of questions:
> 
> 1.) I'll probably step up from the King Combo stone. Reading through forum postings, there was a lot of love for the Bester 1200 and Suehiro Rika 5k. Looks like this can also be had on Amazon for around $100. How does this combination of stones compare with the Shapton 1000 and Kuromaku 5000 suggested above?
> 
> ...



My $.02, I started here not that long ago. There is a lot of love for the Bester 1200 and the Rika 5k. I started with Shapton Pros, 320, 1K, 5K. They work fine for me but I will probably try others as I go. 

I flatten my stones every time I use them but that's me, probably not necessary to do it every time. Budget solution, drywall screen or sandpaper with a flat surface.

Don't overthink it ...... just start doing it. I was so scared when I started and I'm still a rookie. My first go on the stones, I honed one of my knives on the 5K and it was sooooo sharp, I thought this is so easy! Next knife was a little dull so I hit it on the 1K and it came off pretty sharp, went to 5K and I could drag it across my arm with no fear. I read a little more here and watched some videos, couldn't see I was doing anything really wrong. So, patiently and carefully, 320, 1K, 5K paying close attention to angle and form, I got a sharp knife. A real sharp knife. Then a little balsa stropping with compound to plain leather, holy crap, I was so pleased. I still have tough times but just be patient, the more we do it the better we will get.


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## ThEoRy (Sep 20, 2016)

cpotter638 said:


> Yesterday, I watched some of Jon's sharpening videos and looked through several forum posts for sharpening equipment. A couple of questions:
> 
> 1.) I'll probably step up from the King Combo stone. Reading through forum postings, there was a lot of love for the Bester 1200 and Suehiro Rika 5k. Looks like this can also be had on Amazon for around $100. How does this combination of stones compare with the Shapton 1000 and Kuromaku 5000 suggested above?
> 
> ...



While sharpening try and use the entire surface of the stone so you are not grinding down any one particular spot for too long. Even doing this I still like to flatten my stones about every two sessions. 

I like stropping on hard felt with diamond spray to finish.


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## Keith Sinclair (Sep 23, 2016)

Good choice on the knife you will enjoy it. The bester 1.2K & Rika 5K are good stones for the coin will get that Ginga razor sharp.

It is a good knife to hone your skills on the stones takes & removes a burr easy.


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## cpotter638 (Sep 24, 2016)

Re: cutting board. Looking at an end-grain board that is about 2/3 walnut and 1/3 tiger wood. Several websites have boards that are partially tiger wood. Boardsmith.com indicates that tiger wood is a harder wood and thus harder on knives. I really like the look of the tiger wood board, but don't want to kill my new knife. I'm guessing that this is not a huge deal (especially since board will be end-grain). Anyone have experience with end grain boards partially made of harder woods (Bloodwood, Tigerwood, Purpleheart, Bubinga, etc.)?

Thanks again.


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