# First Whetstones



## Ardaqlaq (Jan 30, 2021)

Hi. Iam going to buy my first Japanese knife. It will be a Yoshikane Nashiji white 2. So I think I need to buy some whetstones as well. Iam planning to buy a shapton glass 1k, a 3k and a chef knives to go diamond flattening stone for 30 dolars. I don’t want to spend to much on flatenning stones. Do I need to buy a stone holder or a sink bridge. Finally which tutorial I should follow?

Thanks in Advance


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## daveb (Jan 30, 2021)

Congrats on choosing Yoshi as your first knife. It's a good one.

Shaptons are good stones and a very good value. If you'll google search this site you'll find many discussions on which serve what needs the best. I'm a fan of the Shapton Pro 1000 (I've not used the glass) followed by SP2000 or SG4000. The SG4000 shines as a finishing stone for your gyuto, petty, suji and other double bevel knives. No experience with the SG3000. So my rec is SP1000, SP2000 or SG4000. At some time in future may want to add SG500 (extra thick) and / or SP2000.

The Shapton Pro boxes will serve as a stone holder should you go that route. MTC Kitchens sells a "Field Holder" that will hold 3 glass stones and serve as a holder as well. The sink bridge may or may not be a requirement depending on how you sharpen. Many make homemade ones that function well. Again a site search will find threads that address this.

And finally you're in LA? You would do well to give Jon (or any of his crew) a call at Japanese Knife Imports. I don't know if or when he's open now due to Covid but he's a great source of information, and a great retailer. (His flattening plate is one I've used for almost 10 years). 

And for sharpening videos again recommend JKI's series.


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## Ardaqlaq (Jan 30, 2021)

daveb said:


> Congrats on choosing Yoshi as your first knife. It's a good one.
> 
> Shaptons are good stones and a very good value. If you'll google search this site you'll find many discussions on which serve what needs the best. I'm a fan of the Shapton Pro 1000 (I've not used the glass) followed by SP2000 or SG4000. The SG4000 shines as a finishing stone for your gyuto, petty, suji and other double bevel knives. No experience with the SG3000. So my rec is SP1000, SP2000 or SG4000. At some time in future may want to add SG500 (extra thick) and / or SP2000.
> 
> ...


What is the main difference between shapton glass and pro.


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## esoo (Jan 30, 2021)

My only kit right now is a Sharpton Pro 1000 and a Sharpton Glass 6000. I find it a very usable set. 

The Pro and Glass are slightly different compositions. The Pro is 15mm of stone, while the the Glass is a thinner stone attached to a glass plate. 

While the box of the Pro makes an ok stone holder to start with I finally bought a stone holder and it makes the sharpening experience much nicer. I got one of these and the spring release makes it so nice to work with.


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## ModRQC (Jan 30, 2021)

For a fine edge with moderate aggressiveness, SP1K - Rika work well. Good stones to learn, both of them.

For a bitty edge, King #1200 and Suehiro Ouka/Cerax 3K will work nice together.

A more expensive set that would do wonder too is NP800 - NP3000.

I just bought a combo brick I didn't knew existed and covers those basis well as well: Imanishi #1200/4000 it's a brick, should last for a good while. Got it for the price of one fine stone of the lower end tier - around 80$ CAD, same price as SP5K or Rika alone.


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## M1k3 (Jan 30, 2021)

daveb said:


> Congrats on choosing Yoshi as your first knife. It's a good one.
> 
> Shaptons are good stones and a very good value. If you'll google search this site you'll find many discussions on which serve what needs the best. I'm a fan of the Shapton Pro 1000 (I've not used the glass) followed by SP2000 or SG4000. The SG4000 shines as a finishing stone for your gyuto, petty, suji and other double bevel knives. No experience with the SG3000. So my rec is SP1000, SP2000 or SG4000. At some time in future may want to add SG500 (extra thick) and / or SP2000.
> 
> ...


This is a very good place to start.


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## ModRQC (Jan 30, 2021)

What kind of edge do you guys get out of SG4K?


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## Delat (Jan 30, 2021)

Ardaqlaq said:


> What is the main difference between shapton glass and pro.



There was a thread posted here with some long detailed information from a Shapton vendor. I forget the specifics, but my takeaway was that the Pros are intended for high-carbon steels and the Glass is for stainless alloys. People on this site seem happy with both for either case, so I suspect it’s a pretty subtle difference in practice.

Chef Knives has a set of Shapton Glass for $167 which includes the SG500, 1k, and 4k. I bought that as my starter set but my knives are VG10 and R2. There’s also universal stone holders ranging from $20 - $50 depending on how much you want to spend. One of those and a cookie sheet should be enough to get you started. I picked up an Atoma 140 from Amazon for about $80 for flattening, but I’m sure you get something cheaper.


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## M1k3 (Jan 30, 2021)

ModRQC said:


> What kind of edge do you guys get out of SG4K?


Great ones!


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## ModRQC (Jan 30, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Great ones!



It would be quite appalling if it was the other way around...


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 30, 2021)

Yes to the stone holder if you go with Shapton Glass.

I have the SG500 and SG2k and think it is an excellent combo. 

Add in a strop of some sort and with the flattening plate you'll be in good shape.

The Pro line that was mentioned is also very popular.


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## JBroida (Jan 30, 2021)

daveb said:


> Congrats on choosing Yoshi as your first knife. It's a good one.
> 
> Shaptons are good stones and a very good value. If you'll google search this site you'll find many discussions on which serve what needs the best. I'm a fan of the Shapton Pro 1000 (I've not used the glass) followed by SP2000 or SG4000. The SG4000 shines as a finishing stone for your gyuto, petty, suji and other double bevel knives. No experience with the SG3000. So my rec is SP1000, SP2000 or SG4000. At some time in future may want to add SG500 (extra thick) and / or SP2000.
> 
> ...


we're here and working away. We haven't had any customers in the store since last march, but we're doing what we can to make up for that with the customer experience. We have a contactless pickup system in place for local orders, have been doing video chats with customers, and also setting up appointments using the outdoor space behind our store (we can bring knives and stones out for customers to check out and sit and talk about knives, sharpening, etc). Its not quite the same as being in store, but its safer and possible right now.

Aside from that, just trying to keep up with demand and get work done.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 30, 2021)

Oh yeah, I missed the LA part. I would absolutely go see Jon! I'd check out their knives too before buying something else. Great resource to have near you.


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## ModRQC (Jan 30, 2021)

JBroida said:


> we're here and working away. We haven't had any customers in the store since last march, but we're doing what we can to make up for that with the customer experience. We have a contactless pickup system in place for local orders, have been doing video chats with customers, and also setting up appointments using the outdoor space behind our store (we can bring knives and stones out for customers to check out and sit and talk about knives, sharpening, etc). Its not quite the same as being in store, but its safer and possible right now.
> 
> Aside from that, just trying to keep up with demand and get work done.



First dibs to customers that bring in a six-pack of beer?


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## JBroida (Jan 30, 2021)

ModRQC said:


> First dibs to customers that bring in a six-pack of beer?


lol... kind of hard to enjoy a beer together mid covid

But post covid... well, I cant say it wont help


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## ModRQC (Jan 30, 2021)

Set every can at least two meters apart. You won’t even have to police social distancing this way...


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## ModRQC (Jan 30, 2021)

I hope all of you LA commuters have caught on to this: bring Jon beer and he’ll get out the rarities for you.

Conversely, get him drunk enough and he might do 50% off + 3 years uchimugori polishing any time you have a small scuff.


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## inferno (Jan 30, 2021)

JBroida said:


> we're here and working away. We haven't had any customers in the store since last march, but we're doing what we can to make up for that with the customer experience. We have a contactless pickup system in place for local orders, have been doing video chats with customers, and also setting up appointments using the outdoor space behind our store (we can bring knives and stones out for customers to check out and sit and talk about knives, sharpening, etc). Its not quite the same as being in store, but its safer and possible right now.
> 
> Aside from that, just trying to keep up with demand and get work done.



what do you think is the best general "starter system" from the gesshin lineup?


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## JBroida (Jan 30, 2021)

it really depends on where people are likely to go in terms of their sharpening hobby... its not such a simple black and white thing. Honestly, in many cases, when people are just looking for pragmatic sharpening, its hard to not recommend something simple like the king stones.


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## inferno (Jan 30, 2021)

what about a 2 stone solution for new knife nuts? which gesshin ones would you choose jon? something that would work for everything.

-------------------------

personally i would go for 1k shapton pro and then the 3 or 4k glass if i was only sharpening my own knives.
but as soon as other peoples knives gets involved i would go for the 500 glass double thick and the 3k glass. it just works.

and all that pretty much breaks down as a system as soon as any real coarse stone gets bought, such as any 220.
then the 500 might not be needed and instead a 2k would be good. and then a 4-5-6k, if one is trying to keep stone count to a minimum.

also a diamond plate could be the coarse stone in the system.

at work right now i have the 240 sigma and then a pink 2k bester, basically because those are my most unwanted stones at the moment  .
but i have also had the 1 and 2k shappros, and 220 glass/3k glass/d-plate. i would never stop at 2k for my own stuff though.


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## Ardaqlaq (Jan 31, 2021)

Which one do you think is better shapton glass vs naniwa chosera 800?


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## Benuser (Jan 31, 2021)

Ardaqlaq said:


> Which one do you think is better shapton glass vs naniwa chosera 800?


The Naniwa Pro 800 offers an huge versatility when you vary pressure, amount of mud, water. The end result will be in the range of JIS1200. Most noticeable though is the tactile feedback it gives.


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## mooncake (Jan 31, 2021)

Most Glass stones and Chosera are over-priced product . 
Glass stones is just 5mm thick .Chosera is not value of money .
Eg.Chosera 5000 is just slightly harder than Rika 5000, while the price is nearly double .


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## KingShapton (Jan 31, 2021)

Ardaqlaq said:


> Which one do you think is better shapton glass vs naniwa chosera 800?


That is a question that is difficult or impossible to answer.

It is always a question of personal feelings, personal preferences, etc.

User A will give you a different answer than User B etc.

With a little search you will find so much reading material and opinions on this topic here in the forum that you are busy for days.

From my own experience I can tell you that there is only one way you can find out which of these two stones is better for you ..... buy both, use them both in parallel over a longer period of time and make your own picture ...


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## Ardaqlaq (Jan 31, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> That is a question that is difficult or impossible to answer.
> 
> It is always a question of personal feelings, personal preferences, etc.
> 
> ...


Ok I understand. Let me reask my question. Which one is your personal favourite and why?


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## KingShapton (Jan 31, 2021)

Ardaqlaq said:


> Ok I understand. Let me reask my question. Which one is your personal favourite and why?


The question is easier to answer ..

Glass Stone 1000 vs. Chosera 800 - they are both very good stones.

My personal favorite (of the two) would be the Glass Stone.
First of all, I like the feedback better (in this regard I personally like Shapton more than Chosera), the speed is a bit higher (personal feeling) and I like the results better.

One more word about the "only 5mm thick", that is correct, but the Glass Stones (with the exception of the coarse stones) wear out very slowly, significantly more slowly than other stones. You cannot compare the 5mm with a Chosera in 5mm thickness, for example, in terms of longevity. Another advantage of the Glass Stones is that they don't have to be flattened as often.

One more word about the Chosera / Professional series, they are good stones, but I think they are overpriced from a certain grit size.
I don't like the pricing policy of Naniwa, the Chosera's have been renamed Professional and have been reduced from 25mm to 20mm thick and the Nagura (which was part of the Chosera) was deleted.

Now there is the next "further development" (one could also say marketing measure) in the Naniwa Gouken Arata and the same stone shrinks to 15mm ... Expressed as a percentage, the same stone has lost 40% of its thickness due to 2 renaming ... .but not at its price ...

In addition, the Naniwa Chosera's are known for that they tend to develop hairline cracks at the higher grit numbers ...

In the end I have to say, if I would like the Chosera's more personally, then none of that would matter to me ... but I'm lucky, the Shaptons are more to me!


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## mikemac (Jan 31, 2021)

Ardaqlaq said:


> Hi. Iam going to buy my first Japanese knife. It will be a Yoshikane Nashiji white 2. So I think I need to buy some whetstones as well. Iam planning to buy a shapton glass 1k, a 3k and a chef knives to go diamond flattening stone for 30 dolars. I don’t want to spend to much on flatenning stones. Do I need to buy a stone holder or a sink bridge. Finally which tutorial I should follow?
> 
> Thanks in Advance



Tutorial? Jon from Japanese Knife Imports has a bunch on YouTube that are a great place to start.....and maybe finish.
Sink Bridge? Yes, maybe. AND....depending on your situation maybe just use a 2x6 cut to fit across your sink to start.
Stone Holder? Yes, especially with the Shapton Glass stones as they are significantly thinner than 'traditional' stones and splash & go's
Flattening Stones? pass for today. If you have a reasonably flat surface handy...granite counter top, concrete garage floor, then $5 worth 200 or 500 grit wet/dry sandpaper will do fine, as in an excellent solution for the next few years.
Shapton Glass stones vs. the world? You identified that you were going to buy the SG 1k & 3k. Great stones. There are other great stones, but since you've decided on the SG's go for it... you have to start somewhere and these are an excellent choice. My only recommendation would be 1k & 4k. 
I used to use a Shapton Pro 1k (passed on to my daughter) and SG's, and IIRC, the Pro had a 'harder, glassier feel / feedback than the SG's. 

This forum is full of excellent information, much of which has a tinge of 'the new black', and all of which can lead to analysis paralysis. Remember to enjoy.


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## daveb (Jan 31, 2021)

You may have realized from the lack of consensus above that stones are very subjective - probably more so than knives. But at the end of the day it's the carpenter that makes the difference, not the hammer he is swinging.

I like Shapton Pro largely because I use Shapton Pro a lot. I know what to expect from each stone and a little bit about how to get the best from each. The Shapton Glass I've used, I've liked. May be buying more. My favorite stones are soakers, I prefer the feel of them. The Gesshin series as well as the Bestor 1200 and Rika 5K all live at my house and see use. I've not used the Naniwa,, Chosera or many others listed above as I've had no need to. I like what I already have. 

Suggest you try what appeals to you from this discussion. Learn to use it. As you develop proficiency you may want to try different grits in a stone you like or may want to something different altogether.

Good luck.


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## Ardaqlaq (Jan 31, 2021)

mikemac said:


> Tutorial? Jon from Japanese Knife Imports has a bunch on YouTube that are a great place to start.....and maybe finish.
> Sink Bridge? Yes, maybe. AND....depending on your situation maybe just use a 2x6 cut to fit across your sink to start.
> Stone Holder? Yes, especially with the Shapton Glass stones as they are significantly thinner than 'traditional' stones and splash & go's
> Flattening Stones? pass for today. If you have a reasonably flat surface handy...granite counter top, concrete garage floor, then $5 worth 200 or 500 grit wet/dry sandpaper will do fine, as in an excellent solution for the next few years.
> ...


What is your other recommendations for a beginner? Iam open for other suggestions.


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## jwthaparc (Jan 31, 2021)

I skipped to the end, so I'm sorry if this has been said already. 

If you go with shapton glass stones you will definitely need a stone holder, they are much to short to use without one. You can sharpen off the side of the counter, but that is really not comfortable.


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## big_adventure (Jan 31, 2021)

I have not been sharpening very long. I started with a basic kit of poor combo stones, and, despite good results, decided to upgrade immediately. I decided on a Chosera 1000, a Chosera 3000, and a Suehiro Debado LD 601 6000. They are night and day from what I started with - fast, controlled, durable. That said, that's a lot of scratch to drop on stones - 70euros for the 1000, 120euros for the 3000 and 145euros for the 6000. I'm happy with it, but it's a lot unless you use them a lot.


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## Twotimehojo (Jan 31, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I skipped to the end, so I'm sorry if this has been said already.
> 
> If you go with shapton glass stones you will definitely need a stone holder, they are much to short to use without one. You can sharpen off the side of the counter, but that is really not comfortable.



What if you have a bridge and put the stone atop of another one to gain clearance?


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## big_adventure (Jan 31, 2021)

You could do this, just put a towel or something to reduce slip between the stones. Having a stone slip isn't amusing at all.


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## jwthaparc (Jan 31, 2021)

Twotimehojo said:


> What if you have a bridge and put the stone atop of another one to gain clearance?


Yeah you can use a bridge like that. If you want to go the cheaper route a stone holder is the way to go. If you buy a bridge, the kind that looks like a giant stone holder may be your best bet in this case.


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## daveb (Jan 31, 2021)

If you mix in SP to your set, the box they come in is an adequate stone holder. If all glass the SG500 comes in a plastic box like the SP. Or for $50ish the "Field Holder" will hold 3 glass stones and is a pretty good holder as well.









Shapton Glass Sharpening Stone Field Holder


Shop Japanese knives, knife sharpening stones, Japanese tableware, kitchenware, restaurant supplies and equipments, take out containers, sushi and ramen supplies




mtckitchen.com


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## Twotimehojo (Jan 31, 2021)

@daveb. Just to clarify... The SG500's double thick box is adequate or not as a stone holder?


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## daveb (Jan 31, 2021)

Is. It's the same type box the SP comes in.

See pics 2 - 4.









Shapton #500 Glass Sharpening Stone Double Thick 10mm HR


Shop Japanese knives, knife sharpening stones, Japanese tableware, kitchenware, restaurant supplies and equipments, take out containers, sushi and ramen supplies




mtckitchen.com


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## mikemac (Jan 31, 2021)

Ardaqlaq said:


> What is your other recommendations for a beginner? Iam open for other suggestions.


Other Recommendations...?

For Videos/Tutorials? None for now. too much information becomes too hard to digest. Watch some of Jon's. Sharpen your new knife. Use and enjoy your new knife. Sharpen some of your older knives. Rewatch Jon's videos. Repeat the above. 

For Stones? I think for beginners, the two sided stones are often overlooked. King, Suehiro, Gesshin. My King 1k/6k, also in the custody of my daughter, is 20+ years old. If I had it in my bucket I'd use it. And it could easily last this home cook another 25 years. BUT...because I like the slightly larger stones (8x3" vs 7x2.5") the Gesshin and Shap Glass work out to being about the same price, so thats a toss up (except Jon provides a huge level of support to this community)


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## big_adventure (Jan 31, 2021)

I mentioned my stones earlier, but... as someone who only started sharpening recently:

1. Hit YouTube and watch some videos there. There are a bunch of good ones. Just remember that nobody is "right." There are a ton of different ways to skin this cat. Which is a strange analogy, and now an unneeded digression. Watch a few different ones - Jon Broida is good and an active member of this community, other good ones are Korin, Sharp, Carter, Kramer, etc. All of them have forgotten more about sharpening than you'll probably ever learn.

2. For added confidence, go ahead and test out your new, inexistant skills on something not all that important to you. I'll mention this again below: except in crazy rare cases, it's almost impossible to do permanent, irreversible harm to your knives, but you also probably don't want to start off on a 500 dollar blade - the fear factor alone will probably stunt your learning. I had a few 17 year old mid-quality knives around, the chef's was in good shape as it goes, but a utulity and paring were pretty rough. I also spent 3 euros at the extreme discount store down the street from me on an piece of stamped absolute garbage. I did the paring, the utility (both of which had chips and other deformations) first, dulled the 3 euro special on a rock and did that one. Results were... eh? But it gave me the confidence to attack my acceptable-conditioned chef's and bring it back to better than new. Yeah, they are all scuffed up thanks to horrible technique, but I learned what works for me and what doesn't, really. And I now have a 17 year old, soft steel Mundial chef's knife that shaves hair, slices paper and horizontally push-cuts micro-thin wafers of tomato, just like a real YouTube star.

3. Once you are there, go ahead and take a whack at something lovely. I have a beautiful Moritaki AS Nakiri. I love the form, I haven't had any issue with the Ku finish, the knife and I were made for one another. It was very sharp out of the box, but the edge was significantly dulled after just two hour-long prep sessions. It went from "show off video to a friend" sharp to "can't cleanly slice a tomato." I used my still-learning skills on the 3k (I didn't have the 6k yet) to refine the edge a bit, stropped it, and it was back to razor sharp. I didn't damage the finish, and felt pretty confident. I also didn't significantly change the stock edge. Well, a bit later, after several more hard core prep sessions, it was feeling again a bit dull - not bad per se, but no badass razor either. Basically, I questioned the OOB edge geometry. I examined it as closely as I could, and came up with my plan of action. 10 minutes later, after a new edge, deburr and polish on the 1k, then a lengthy polish on the 6k, then stropping with very fine compound, and it's effortlessly shaving hair and what not. I'm still learning, and it's an amazing feeling to make incremental progress on beautiful tools, making them fit your needs. As I mentioned above, it's almost impossible that you outright destroy your knife doing this. You might wear it a bit more, you might have to sharpen it twice or three times if you make a mistake, but you won't ruin it unless you TRY to ruin it.

That's my two cents, and they may well not be worth even that much.


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## inferno (Jan 31, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> One more word about the Chosera / Professional series, they are good stones, but I think they are overpriced from a certain grit size.
> 
> 
> In addition, the Naniwa Chosera's are known for that they tend to develop hairline cracks at the higher grit numbers ...



imo the naniwa are too expensive for the 3k and up. the 2k is kinda expensive too but its very good.
i'd say the 800 and 400 are fair priced.

did anyone say naniwa cracks?


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## M1k3 (Jan 31, 2021)

I'd definitely recommend watching the playlist Japanese Knife Imports has on YouTube. Including the video with Peter Nowlan A.K.A. @Sailor. And watch his videos also. That will give you good base to start sharpening with. Once you're able to consistently get your knife sharper than it was when you started, explore some other videos.

Like @stringer's video 
@TSF415


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## TSF415 (Jan 31, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> I'd definitely recommend watching the playlist Japanese Knife Imports has on YouTube. Including the video with Peter Nowlan A.K.A. @Sailor. And watch his videos also. That will give you good base to start sharpening with. Once you're able to consistently get your knife sharper than it was when you started, explore some other videos.
> 
> Like @stringer's video
> @TSF415




You should watch this video a few times.


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## branwell (Feb 1, 2021)

inferno said:


> did anyone say naniwa cracks?



That's art right there. People pay good money for that.


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## ModRQC (Feb 1, 2021)

inferno said:


> imo the naniwa are too expensive for the 3k and up. the 2k is kinda expensive too but its very good.
> i'd say the 800 and 400 are fair priced.
> 
> did anyone say naniwa cracks?



Did you seal it?!?


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## Benuser (Feb 1, 2021)

Haven't seen cracks with the Naniwa Pros. Perhaps the fact they're thinner and have no base has an effect: both allow a more even drying.
I experienced cracking with the Chosera 5k after letting it soak by inadvertance. Was meant for a few minutes and I forgot it. My guess is the upper side got dry while the inner part stayed wet for a much longer time due to the base. Have been told that changes permanently the structure of magnesia bound stones. Since, I only apply a bit of water on the upper side.
I certainly would not use sealing, as it hinders even drying.


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## ModRQC (Feb 1, 2021)

Obviously not sealing NPs, but the stone pictured looked either like it was sealed, either like it rot all throughout but the surface or something. Of course light+angle play tricks, hence why I asked....


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## Benuser (Feb 1, 2021)

On the @inferno picture I easily recognise the 800 and 3k NP. Not so with the cracked one. My Chosera 2k is ochre-yellow. What is it?


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## ModRQC (Feb 1, 2021)

NP5000?


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## spaceconvoy (Feb 1, 2021)

Benuser said:


> Haven't seen cracks with the Naniwa Pros. Perhaps the fact they're thinner and have no base has an effect: both allow a more even drying.
> I experienced cracking with the Chosera 5k after letting it soak by inadvertance. Was meant for a few minutes and I forgot it. My guess is the upper side got dry while the inner part stayed wet for a much longer time due to the base. Have been told that changes permanently the structure of magnesia bound stones. Since, I only apply a bit of water on the upper side.
> I certainly would not use sealing, as it hinders even drying.


Isn't that the opposite theory behind sealing natural stones? Usually naturals prone to cracking are sealed on all sides but the top, which is said to prevent cracking by making the stone dry more slowly. Is there something different about chosera's stone composition that would make evenness of drying more important than speed?


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## inferno (Feb 1, 2021)

Benuser said:


> On the @inferno picture I easily recognise the 800 and 3k NP. Not so with the cracked one. My Chosera 2k is ochre-yellow. What is it?



its a snow white 8k supposedly. not my stones. just one of the most spectacular surface cracking i have seen on a stone.


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## mooncake (Feb 1, 2021)

magnesium based stones such as Chosera will easily crack if prolong soaked in water.


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## Oshidashi (Feb 1, 2021)

Ardaqlaq said:


> Hi. Iam going to buy my first Japanese knife. It will be a Yoshikane Nashiji white 2. So I think I need to buy some whetstones as well. Iam planning to buy a shapton glass 1k, a 3k and a chef knives to go diamond flattening stone for 30 dolars. I don’t want to spend to much on flatenning stones. Do I need to buy a stone holder or a sink bridge. Finally which tutorial I should follow?
> 
> Thanks in Advance



I'm sure these 30 posts have resolved any confusion you may have started with! My $0.02 is that you may find a leather strop with some diamond spray or other compound very helpful to complement your stones, and stropping is an inexpensive, effective and pleasurable way to provide a finishing touch after sharpening. I often strop right after even light kitchen use to maintain an edge. Stropping on leather takes just a few seconds and there's no mess.


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## daveb (Feb 1, 2021)

Noooooooooooooooooooo................


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## Benuser (Feb 2, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> Isn't that the opposite theory behind sealing natural stones? Usually naturals prone to cracking are sealed on all sides but the top, which is said to prevent cracking by making the stone dry more slowly. Is there something different about chosera's stone composition that would make evenness of drying more important than speed?


I'm fully aware my approach is controversial. Very experienced and respected members have defended the base with the old Choseras as the way to protect against cracking, while I have reasons to believe it's rather one of the sources of a lot of problems. 
Have no experience with Japanese naturals, so I can't comment on sealing them. I just wouldn't seal my own Choseras or Naniwa Pros as it hinders even drying.


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## spaceconvoy (Feb 2, 2021)

Benuser said:


> I'm fully aware my approach is controversial. Very experienced and respected members have defended the base with the old Choseras as the way to protect against cracking, while I have reasons to believe it's rather one of the sources of a lot of problems.
> Have no experience with Japanese naturals, so I can't comment on sealing them. I just wouldn't seal my own Choseras or Naniwa Pros as it hinders even drying.


I don't doubt you, we're just in different boats - I have a few natural stones but never tried choseras. My experience is that naturals crack when they're unsealed, so I'm curious why they behave differently.


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## big_adventure (Feb 2, 2021)

I'm a total newb to sharpening but one of the reasons I avoided the Snow White was the stories of cracking. I'm really happy with the Suehiro Debado LD601 (6000 rated).


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## KKL81 (Feb 2, 2021)

That possessed razor honer with the strong opinions that sounds like he uses too many stimulants on youtube says that Gouken Arata doesn't crack.


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## mpier (Feb 2, 2021)

inferno said:


> imo the naniwa are too expensive for the 3k and up. the 2k is kinda expensive too but its very good.
> i'd say the 800 and 400 are fair priced.
> 
> did anyone say naniwa cracks?


My Snow White looks just like that one, IMO the 5000k and 10000k are way over priced but I would buy the 3000k again and again. All my Chosera’s have a base, no soak, no seal, no cracks after three years.


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## inferno (Feb 3, 2021)

Benuser said:


> Haven't seen cracks with the Naniwa Pros. Perhaps the fact they're thinner and have no base has an effect: both allow a more even drying.
> I experienced cracking with the Chosera 5k after letting it soak by inadvertance. Was meant for a few minutes and I forgot it. My guess is the upper side got dry while the inner part stayed wet for a much longer time due to the base. Have been told that changes permanently the structure of magnesia bound stones. Since, I only apply a bit of water on the upper side.
> I certainly would not use sealing, as it hinders even drying.



my 800 pro has started showing a few spiderweb cracks just from regular use. and its not really one of my high use stones.

so i decieded to seal my 2k and 800 with clear coat. so when in use at least only the top of the stone can leach out magnesia binder. i guess it would reduce the risk of it cracking in 2.

i dont think the water gets very deep in the pros, maybe a mm or 2. they dry fairly fast. as opposed to a cerax or similar that takes a week to dry.


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## Oshidashi (Feb 3, 2021)

Chicken livers sautéed, with shallots, mushrooms, port wine, and dried cranberries. Recipe was from Jacques Pépin. Chicken liver is very inexpensive, but rich and very delicious -- unless you simply don't like liver.






Also, I trimmed the livers before cooking, including removal of the tiny gall bladders and the hilar biliary duct complex. I bet ya'll didn't know chickens get gallstones! Here's one of two that I came across during tonight's dissection:

(Actual diameter was around 1 mm.)


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## big_adventure (Feb 4, 2021)

Oshidashi said:


> Chicken livers sautéed, with shallots, mushrooms, port wine, and dried cranberries. Recipe was from Jacques Pépin. Chicken liver is very inexpensive, but rich and very delicious -- unless you simply don't like liver.
> 
> View attachment 112698
> 
> ...



Damn, I did not realize they did that.

This is why I limit my liver consumption to vastly overfed duck and goose. 

Did that sound too elitist, or too French? Sorry. 

Boca Raton, huh? I mostly grew up there. Went to Spanish River.


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## branwell (Feb 4, 2021)

OMG humans. Livers a filter filtering up all the bodies cra& and you want to eat it. This is why we cant have nice things


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## ian (Feb 4, 2021)

branwell said:


> OMG humans. Livers a filter filtering up all the bodies cra& and you want to eat it. This is why we cant have nice things



From what I understand, the liver doesn't filter, it converts. Nothing I've read indicates it stores toxins, but it's extremely vitamin rich. Maybe someone who actually knows some biology can comment here, since I don't, but this seems like a comment based on an inaccurate understanding of what the organ is. It's probably not healthy to eat a ton of it for other reasons, but I can't find any reliable source saying not to eat it because it stores toxins.

#IHaveNoSenseOfHumor


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## branwell (Feb 4, 2021)

ian said:


> the liver doesn't filter, it converts



To be fair to the liver, I was making a haha at its expense, poor thing. I'm sorry Liver and those who love you


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## spaceconvoy (Feb 4, 2021)

this thread took a weird turn


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## LostHighway (Feb 4, 2021)

ian said:


> From what I understand, the liver doesn't filter, it converts. Nothing I've read indicates it stores toxins, but it's extremely vitamin rich. Maybe someone who actually knows some biology can comment here, since I don't, but this seems like a comment based on an inaccurate understanding of what the organ is. It's probably not healthy to eat a ton of it for other reasons, but I can't find any reliable source saying not to eat it because it stores toxins.
> 
> #IHaveNoSenseOfHumor



Vitamin A is the culprit - several early arctic and antarctic explorers died from eating too much liver, primarily polar bear and marine mammals although I think dog liver was implicated in at least one case.


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## daveb (Feb 4, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> this thread took a weird turn



Somebody goosed it...

(Sry)


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## choochoochop (Feb 4, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> this thread took a weird turn


It's about that time anyways


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## branwell (Feb 4, 2021)

The dogs. Not the dogs. No wonder Aliens wont come visit us.


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## big_adventure (Feb 4, 2021)

branwell said:


> The dogs. Not the dogs. No wonder Aliens wont come visit us.



If they do, we better hope they are nothing at all like us, if they are, we're soooooooo screwed.


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## LostHighway (Feb 4, 2021)

big_adventure said:


> If they do, we better hope they are nothing at all like us, if they are, we're soooooooo screwed.



Don't eat the liver of the humans, not even with a fava beans and a nice Chianti.


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## Oshidashi (Feb 4, 2021)

Sorry, I meant to put that chicken liver post in the thread "Whats cooking? **** Making something fine and fancy?** Just plain good? Show us!." But that's what happened when I tried posting while half dozing off. Appreciate the replies, though!



ian said:


> From what I understand, the liver doesn't filter, it converts. Nothing I've read indicates it stores toxins, but it's extremely vitamin rich. Maybe someone who actually knows some biology can comment here, since I don't, but this seems like a comment based on an inaccurate understanding of what the organ is. It's probably not healthy to eat a ton of it for other reasons, but I can't find any reliable source saying not to eat it because it stores toxins.
> 
> #IHaveNoSenseOfHumor



Okay, this is the price I now must pay for accidentally posting liver in the whetstone post: The food that is absorbed through the intestinal wall goes into veins surrounding the intestines and into what is called the portal venous system and then through the main portal vein into the liver, which then filters the nutrient rich blood for impurities. So, everything we eat is monitored by the liver. The impurities and any toxins are then metabolized to less harmful molecules that can now be safely delivered back to the systemic blood circulation. However, some toxins that cannot be safely converted are eliminated through the biliary system in the bile, which is delivered back into the intestines via the common bile duct. Bile also contains beneficial emulsifiers that help digest ingested fat. In fact, excess bile is stored in the gall bladder, which will squirt a bolus of bile into the duodenum through the common bile duct in response to a fatty meal. The liver also gets oxygenated blood via the hepatic artery and can also metabolize many toxins from that source. The liver has amazing metabolic sophistication and is crucial in all but the lowest animal phyla. There ya go.


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## branwell (Feb 4, 2021)

Oshidashi said:


> The liver has amazing metabolic sophistication



Well damn. We shouldn't be eating it, we should be bowing to it.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Feb 4, 2021)

My liver is evil. It must be punished.


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## Oshidashi (Feb 4, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> My liver is evil. It must be punished.



And several ways to do that come to mind.


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