# Knifemaker Advice



## Dave Martell

I've been asked before to give advice/tips to new knifemakers. I thought that it might be interesting to make a thread where we can add some little tidbits of wisdom to maybe help others out. We can all learn from others.

To start the ball rolling I'd like to add....

*
Flatten ya platen! *

I find this is something of the upmost importance to speed and quality of work.

Yes even those "ceramic glass" platens need checking and flattening regularly. I just finished doing both my glass and hardened steel platens. A disc (bench) sander loaded with a ceramic disc works great for this task.


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## DevinT

Don't start, there is no known cure.

If you must, buy the best equipment you can, use good materials. 

Find a mentor, learn his method first, then find your own path. 10 makers, 10 different ways to make a knife. If you listen to all of them, you'll be all mixed up.

Hoss


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## Dave Martell

Good advice Devin!


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## Dave Martell

Abrasives - use them like they're FREE!


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## HHH Knives

A 1/4" pin wont fit into a 1/4" hole.


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## Marko Tsourkan

It will take several years before you will feel like you know what you are doing. Don't assume)))


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## Dave Martell

Handle makers should join in the discussion as well.


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## Castalia

Get a drill press, if you want straight holes for pins. You will quickly become frustrated with handheld drilling if you want precision. :doublethumbsup:


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## icanhaschzbrgr

Don't even start. Just buy from good makers. Save yourself tons of time and money.


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## JohnnyChance

Don't take deposits. Wait lists are fine, when someone's name is called and the work starts, then you can ask for a % up front. If they are no longer interested, on to the next person. Too many of y'all are too burdened and stressed by owed work.


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## Lefty

JohnnyChance said:


> Don't take deposits. Wait lists are fine, when someone's name is called and the work starts, then you can ask for a % up front. If they are no longer interested, on to the next person. Too many of y'all are too burdened and stressed by owed work.



Yes...agreed.


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## Dave Martell

JohnnyChance said:


> Don't take deposits. Wait lists are fine, when someone's name is called and the work starts, then you can ask for a % up front. If they are no longer interested, on to the next person. Too many of y'all are too burdened and stressed by owed work.




Yes


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## Lefty

Side note - Dave, one day, I really really want to have a few beers with you. Just sayin'.

Also, another piece of advice from me would be for guys to only make what inspires them. Uninspired work never turns out as well as a piece that makes you get out in the shop.


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## Dave Martell

Lefty said:


> Side note - Dave, one day, I really really want to have a few beers with you. Just sayin'.




I quit drinking (more than) a few years ago (I had done my fair share BTW) but every couple of years I enjoy a good beer or two just because. I'd certainly be down for hanging out with you (regardless of the beer or not) Tom.


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## chefcomesback

Don't take full payment until the knife is finished and give realistic deadlines not best case scenarios


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## mlau

Great tips!


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## WillC

Don't be put off by the big picture, its like a jigsaw made up off little bites or stages. Think about the details, its a great escape, enjoy it, you can start as humbly as you like, you know your Chef knives here and if you have the goal in your head based on your experiences, its a great start you just need to break it into stages and individual problems to solve.......to gain skills, be a specialist, focus on each task, from just getting a knife you own sharp and thin, moving on to regrinds....then setting out geometry on a grinder on a pre heat treated blank. A series of little challenges to overcome with help and advise and ultimately finding your own unique solutions bringing your own skill set and background into play. 

Finally inspiration finds you working so less day dreaming about equipment and space you don't have or really need yet, more working with and enjoying what you have to hand or you can make yourself


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## Delbert Ealy

Don't be afraid to try something you have not done before, you might just find a new love. (SPOONS)
Be honest with you customers. Remember, they are people too, don't make excuses. If you are running behind, don't be afraid to let you customer know. 
Some times as a maker I lose all interest in a project, especially when I have discovered a bright shiny new idea to try.
Take a few minutes to explain to your customer that you need a breather, and that although they are next on the list your creativity needs to be expressed in another project. You will make a better product for the customer, and as important, you will be keeping your creativity fresh. A friend of mine calls these therapy knives. 
Know your limits, don't push yourself too hard. Burnout is more common than most knifemakers will admit to. I have been doing this for close to 30 years now, and I have seen it happen. Injuries happen more frequently when you are tired, know when to call it a day.
Take some time with your family. This may be a passion for you, but if you push too hard, you may find yourself with many regrets. 
Thanks,
Del


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## chefcomesback

Delbert Ealy said:


> Don't be afraid to try something you have not done before, you might just find a new love. (SPOONS)
> Be honest with you customers. Remember, they are people too, don't make excuses. If you are running behind, don't be afraid to let you customer know.
> Some times as a maker I lose all interest in a project, especially when I have discovered a bright shiny new idea to try.
> Take a few minutes to explain to your customer that you need a breather, and that although they are next on the list your creativity needs to be expressed in another project. You will make a better product for the customer, and as important, you will be keeping your creativity fresh. A friend of mine calls these therapy knives.
> Know your limits, don't push yourself too hard. Burnout is more common than most knifemakers will admit to. I have been doing this for close to 30 years now, and I have seen it happen. Injuries happen more frequently when you are tired, know when to call it a day.
> Take some time with your family. This may be a passion for you, but if you push too hard, you may find yourself with many regrets.
> Thanks,
> Del



Great one Del


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## WillC

Sage advise Del.


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## Dave Martell

The 2 very most basic "must have" requirements for custom chef knives are...


*1. Must out perform/cut better than a $60 Tojiro DP*

*2. Must work in conjunction with a cutting board. Rope cutting competitors need not apply.*


Think about that before moving forward....wink wink


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## milkbaby

Dave Martell said:


> The 2 very most basic "must have" requirements for custom chef knives are...
> 
> 
> *1. Must out perform/cut better than a $60 Tojiro DP*
> 
> *2. Must work in conjunction with a cutting board. Rope cutting competitors need not apply.*
> 
> 
> Think about that before moving forward....wink wink



re: requirement 2, so this guy in the video isn't legit? :knife:

[video]https://youtu.be/0NX3enj_NT8[/video]

I'll be cancelling my order then.


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## Dave Martell

milkbaby said:


> re: requirement 2, so this guy in the video isn't legit? :knife:
> 
> [video]https://youtu.be/0NX3enj_NT8[/video]
> 
> I'll be cancelling my order then.




Well sure Bob is legit.

What I was trying to say is that most any sharp knife can cut rope but not any sharp knife can work on a cutting board. Also, just because it's called a kitchen or (chef's) knife doesn't mean that it is. As a new maker one should completely/thoroughly understand this.

Ex. - Google-fu (under images) "custom chef knife" :lol2:


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## milkbaby

Dave Martell said:


> Well sure Bob is legit.
> 
> What I was trying to say is that most any sharp knife can cut rope but not any sharp knife can work on a cutting board. Also, just because it's called a kitchen or (chef's) knife doesn't mean that it is. As a new maker one should completely/thoroughly understand this.
> 
> Ex. - Google-fu (under images) "custom chef knife" :lol2:



I was just joshing you, as the very first thing that came to my mind when you mentioned rope cutting was that Kramer video. 

Wondering though, do you think that knife is sharpened the same way as he would sharpen it for just kitchen work? For a dedicated chopper it would be sharpened to a more obtuse angle than for the kitchen or not?


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## Dave Martell

Yeah he might've optimized the edge a bit for the rope.


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## Dave Martell

Knifemaker Advice - Don't even think about this as a sustainable business, especially if you have a family.


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## ChefJimbo

BREATHE DAVE !! Step away from the shiny sharp objects and take a deeeeeeeeeeep breath


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## Dave Martell

ChefJimbo said:


> BREATHE DAVE !! Step away from the shiny sharp objects and take a deeeeeeeeeeep breath




Good advice, I need to walk away today.


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## Dave Martell

Knifemaker Advice - DO NOT drive your finger tips into a max speed spinning 36x ceramic belt! :scared4:


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## malexthekid

New meaning to manicuring your finger nails


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## valgard

Dave Martell said:


> Knifemaker Advice - DO NOT drive your finger tips into a max speed spinning 36x ceramic belt! :scared4:


Hope it's not too bad Dave


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## Dave Martell

malexthekid said:


> New meaning to manicuring your finger nails



The middle finger is now flat tipped to the bone with matching nail.





valgard said:


> Hope it's not too bad Dave



It's just going to bug the hell out of me for a week or so, I'll live.


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## Don Nguyen

Sharpen before going forward with the final geometry. It sucks to sharpen after the blade is completely done and then you find that it wasn't as thin as you thought it was.


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## chefcomesback

Don Nguyen said:


> Sharpen before going forward with the final geometry. It sucks to sharpen after the blade is completely done and then you find that it wasn't as thin as you thought it was.



That's a good one Don , and sharpen with the angle that knife is going to be used not " if I go steep it will scratch "


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## Nemo

I hope your finger is OK Dave


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## Dave Martell

Nemo said:


> I hope your finger is OK Dave



It's sore to the touch but OK when wrapped up good. The worst part was this morning when I went to change the bandage and found the gauze glued to the bone! I had to do a 1-2-3 rippppp :shocked3:


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## valgard

Dave Martell said:


> It's sore to the touch but OK when wrapped up good. The worst part was this morning when I went to change the bandage and found the gauze glued to the bone! I had to do a 1-2-3 rippppp :shocked3:



Ouch! :scared4:


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## brianh

Dave Martell said:


> It's sore to the touch but OK when wrapped up good. The worst part was this morning when I went to change the bandage and found the gauze glued to the bone! I had to do a 1-2-3 rippppp :shocked3:



"Check, please." *thump*


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## Nemo

Did you see a doc? Very high chance you'll need medical attention if bone is exposed.


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## aboynamedsuita

Earlier today I saw the metal grinding sanding belts at home depot in the 36-80x range i touched one and it felt sharp/abrasive AF, I could only imagine what it'd be like at speed with some torque to it.


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## Dave Martell

Nemo said:


> Did you see a doc? Very high chance you'll need medical attention if bone is exposed.



My wife thought that it would be smart to go to the doctor but I stupider and nixxed that and went back to work. The thought of irrigation and debridement was enough to make me take my chances.


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## Dave Martell

aboynamedsuita said:


> Earlier today I saw the metal grinding sanding belts at home depot in the 36-80x range i touched one and it felt sharp/abrasive AF, I could only imagine what it'd be like at speed with some torque to it.




36x belts produce hanging meat


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## Nemo

Dave Martell said:


> My wife thought that it would be smart to go to the doctor but I stupider and nixxed that and went back to work. The thought of irrigation and debridement was enough to make me take my chances.



I do hope that it's OK Dave.


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## jessf

I've found that thin CA glue is the best for glueing up hardware. Last two knives made use of CA to glue the spacers, brass and mokume. Benifits are almost instant curing, superior heat resistance to all of the epoxies ive used, low viscosity means no glue gaps, and no clamping, just fingure pressure which also helps keep the joints tight as clamping force can be uneven some times.


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## zitangy

valgard said:


> Ouch! :scared4:



had a nasty accident that scraped off a chuck of flesh on the palm near thumb... to remove the gauze every morning.. i wld soak the palm in warm water till it soften up and then remove it. During the day..scabs is the healing process and cracks up adn thus bleeds again when i use my hand. To prevent that i applied tea tree oil ( keeps scab pliant and also anti bacteria)...


shld recover nicely...

rgds z


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## valgard

zitangy said:


> had a nasty accident that scraped off a chuck of flesh on the palm near thumb... to remove the gauze every morning.. i wld soak the palm in warm water till it soften up and then remove it. During the day..scabs is the healing process and cracks up adn thus bleeds again when i use my hand. To prevent that i applied tea tree oil ( keeps scab pliant and also anti bacteria)...
> 
> 
> shld recover nicely...
> 
> rgds z



Is that recent? if so get better z. 
My worst experience with gauze was when I burned my right forearm with an iron, those removal sessions were hell. Close second when I lost a fingernail (smashed in pieces) in a bike accident. :scared4:
Carlos


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## scott.livesey

which is why I say "When you get hurt by your grinder" instead of if.


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## scott.livesey

Decide if knifemaking is a hobby or business. If a hobby, buy what all the other kids have, shop only at knife makers stores, use the steel all the big kids use, and send out all heat treatment. 
If a business, expect to maybe break even. do cost analysis and time/motion studies like a real manufacturer would do. look at the +/- of single piece vs. batch. decide if you are going to do your own heat treat. SHOP and experiment.


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## valgard

Sorry, I meant to say my burn was with an ironing machine not an iron lol. that sure was confusing. It still got the whole interior half of my forearm as I fell over it with my weight behind. Nicely seared meat.


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## Don Nguyen

Make sure your handle fits before you glue it.


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## Nemo

Don Nguyen said:


> Make sure your handle fits before you glue it.



Ahh... a variation on the old "measure twice, cut once" advice?


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## frank358fr

Good advice.


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## scott.livesey

Start small, paring knives and small petty/utility knives.


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## Dave Martell

The best advice I could give today _(for someone starting out)_ is to become popular. Before buying a nice grinder or forge or any of that stuff get yourself a good camera and as many social media accounts as possible and post like your life depends on it...because it does. Forget being a good knifemaker, that can come later, being popular is far more important on the path to success.....well, _these days_.


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## milkbaby

Looking cute can help a little too. And then put some pics of yourself on your website for heaven's sake!


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## scllyjke

Dave Martell said:


> Good advice, I need to walk away today.


hahahaha


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## MattM82

If it’s shiny and you think you might need it, get it!
In all seriousness though, don’t do this! Be selective about the equipment you purchase to make your knives. Otherwise you’ll end up with a shop full of stuff you don’t use and a lot of capital where it isn’t working for you. 
This isn’t advice I subscribe too because I love tools and collect them in excess... but my shop is cluttered with them as a result. Don’t be me.


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## Random

I have never sold a knife, but I have made a few. The best advice I got when starting out was "don't buy any new machines until you have made a few knives with hand tools."

That process taught me a lot, but most important was my level of confidence and commitment before buying a $5000 knife grinder. In the end, I found a nice little hobby, but I'm not a knifemaker.


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## RDalman

Learn to grind well on ribboned contact wheel. It allows insane speed upgrade and precision while grinding very cool.


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## Matus

RDalman said:


> Learn to grind well on ribboned contact wheel. It allows insane speed upgrade and precision while grinding very cool.



Robin, what wheel diameter would you recommend for bulk material removal?


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## RDalman

Matus said:


> Robin, what wheel diameter would you recommend for bulk material removal?


300 mm is the only I use.


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## HSC /// Knives

RDalman said:


> ribboned contact wheel.


Ribboned means the same as "Serrated"...?


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## Bert2368

HSC /// Knives said:


> Ribboned means the same as "Serrated"...?



I didn't know either- But...

https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=1000670106978312&_rdr


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