# What's your favourite jnat?



## Barry's Knives (Nov 8, 2019)

I have a great okudo suita 2.9 micron from sinichi, an atagoyama iromon 3.5 from maxim and a super fine natsuya from japan. They all have things I like about them but all are very different. The atagoyama for example is very muddy, the natsuya gives the best feedback of anything I've ever tried. I have a couple more jnats on the way, but wanted to know which are the favourites in your collection and why? Is there anything that has particularly surprised you (good or bad) with a particular stone, or type of stone?


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## Marcelo Amaral (Nov 8, 2019)

My favorite is an ohira renge suita. It has a lot of renge. Beautiful and fast stone. Just perfect hardness for a knife in my opinion (between lvl3.5 and lvl4 is my guess) and it is usually my favorite finishing stone for carbon steels that can take that kind of refinement. It's not even close to the hardest stone i own, but it feels perfect for knives, leaving just enough bite to go through tomatoes' skin, but feeling very smooth while cutting meat.

Second one in my list is a stone that will only be useful if one likes to sharpen 100% on jnats. It's a numata from JNS that can set a bevel very quickly if compared to other jnats. It's not as coarse as a coarse omura, so it holds the water well, but it sharpens as fast as a coarse omura. It is part of my regular progression for carbon blades.

Third is the stone that follows the numata in my favorite progression, a special ikarashi Todd (aka tgfencer) sold me. Very useful to prepare the bevel to get something finer. Fast and beautiful stone offered by Watanabe-san originally. It doesn't have one of its corners, but it works so well, it became one of my favorites. https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/jnats-suitas-ikarashi.30876/

Fourth is a kouzaki aoto from Yamashita-san that is a pleasure to use. I find it good for sharpening aeb-l blades that are thin behind the edge. It leaves a toothy edge and it sharpens that metal fast.

Another favorite is an ohira ao renge suita from Watanabe-san that is extra fine and hard (HS69), but it is a pleasure to use to get extra refinement, if you are into it. It is surprisingly fast for such a fine and hard stone. Amazing, in my opinion.


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## Barry's Knives (Nov 8, 2019)

Amazing collection. How is the ao renge suita for polishing? Am looking to get an aoto too! What sort of grit would you say yours finishes on?


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## Marcelo Amaral (Nov 8, 2019)

Sorry, can't say as i've never really polished on it. Still have to start learning polishing one day.

If you plan to get an aoto, Yamashita-san (at Japan Tool) used to have great kouzaki aotos. I would definitely grab one from him. He's a really nice person with an awesome knowledge about jnats.

As for the grit i finish my edges, it really depends on the use and on the blade. I like using that kouzaki aoto, for instance, as a final stone for a Dalman's aeb-l laser gyuto. It can easily cut the tomatoes' skin while not being too coarse to leave a tearing feeling while dicing. Maybe it is a bit too fine for it as it looses its teeth sooner than i would like.

Usually, my progression on carbon gyutos is numata, ikarashi, a not too fine suita, sometimes with a harder green aoto (atagoyama) between the ikarashi and the suita. Finish among 4k and 6k.
For fun or for single bevel blades, that ohira ao renge is nice. That ao renge leaves a finish around 10k, but it is really an over the top finish for a gyuto, not ideal for me. It works for single bevel blades, though.

How is usually your progression for carbon gyutos? That okudo sounds nice, how do you use it?


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## Barry's Knives (Nov 8, 2019)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> Sorry, can't say as i've never really polished on it. Still have to start learning polishing one day.
> 
> If you plan to get an aoto, Yamashita-san (at Japan Tool) used to have great kouzaki aotos. I would definitely grab one from him. He's a really nice person with an awesome knowledge about jnats.
> 
> ...


I normally set the bevels on synths then go the natsuya. To be honest I can happily leave the edge like that but the other 2 stones refine it to something witha a bit more zing. Probably overkill for most uses. I generally use the suita for blue steels as it works so fast, but the atagoyama mud breaks down substantially and for white steel you can easily get a searingly sharp edge on it. I've been lucky with the stones I have so far. I have a medium hard karasu and a soft kiita arriving in the next couple of days to play around with different polishing effects a bit more.


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## PalmRoyale (Nov 8, 2019)

The first suita I ever bought (an Ohira) is still my all time favourite jnat. I didn't really know anything about jnats back then so it was rather risky. I've tested loads of suitas since then and none have ever come close. It has the most satisfying abrasive feeling with a slurry and it's very fast. The finish is also outstanding. It's not a knife stone because the edge is too smooth but that makes it great for my chisels. My second favourite is a sand stone of unknown origin. It needs a slurry to really perform and it puts a 6-8k finish on a blade with a lot of tooth. Great stone for all round kitchen use. The third top contender is a true habutae suita. It's stupendously hard and turns into a metal eating monster with a slurry.


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## K813zra (Nov 8, 2019)

I don't know that I can answer this question but I'll try.

To look at my favorite is a binsui that I got from Mr. Watanabe. It is white but has what looks to be purple renge and lightning bolts or something. Very pretty. Meh to use though-lol.

Favorite in terms of feedback is easily my Takashima. It feels smooth and creamy but also has a grippy feel when the bevel is 'on' so you know just what is being done to the edge. It however is finer than I typically like to take my knives. 

Favorite for wide bevels I'd say is my Hideriyama. Medium dark, solid contrast with no streaking. 

My Ikarashi is my favorite for softer stainless. 

My Aizu is my favorite specifically for my KS. 

My Monzen is my favorite for a butchery edge. It is also fun to use as it is a freaking mud monster from the first stroke, even on a narrow bevel. Oddly it doesn't feel too soft either.

My favorite 1k replacement is my super soft Amakusa though it is more like 800 if I am being honest.\

My most practical stone is likely my Aono Aoto. Not too fine nor too coarse. Not fast and not slow. Not hard and not soft. Medium mud production and not overly thirsty. Leaves a 2-3k edge. 

But what is my most used natural stone, my humble Yaginoshima Asagi, inclusions and all. Why, it is fast, easy to use and give an edge with lots of refinement with just enough bite. 

I could likely draw this out more if I really wanted to...I do have more stones but those are the standouts. Take from that what you will.


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## nutmeg (Nov 8, 2019)

Ultra soft Ohira uchigumori
183*62mm
The ultimate one can dream of as honyaki finisher. Perfect hardness and grain size, say 2,5k.




Soft-middle soft Ohira uchigumori
120*80mm
My ultimate allrounder uchigumori.
I can use it on any blade and know it will work.




Ultra fein Narutaki jizuya (about 2 micrometer), awesome feeling. Perfect on core AND clad but only for very time consuming polishing works.
90*60mm usable now



gave my most perfect natural mirror, almost scratch free with naked eye, very elegant contrast:
http://uchigumori.com/blog/2017/07/15/some-work-on-a-kato-damascus/p1000664/
http://uchigumori.com/blog/2017/07/15/some-work-on-a-kato-damascus/p1000659/

And an other small one from Nakayama.
160*63*15mm
Not better than the Narutaki but gives a more bling bling mirror due to its hardness. I guess a bit too hard for kitchen knives. So, strong mirror on core but the clad has to be cleaned with finger stones afterwards


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## nutmeg (Nov 8, 2019)

Barry's Knives said:


> Amazing collection. How is the ao renge suita for polishing? Am looking to get an aoto too! What sort of grit would you say yours finishes on?


I'd say the grain size on Ao renge is not that fine but its hardness gives the strongest mirror IMO. And the contrast is good for kasumi so the clad won't turn into mirror too.
It is also extremely dense. Water never penetrates the stones so once you get your slurry it won't break down.
I also had great results using it under running water with lowest pressure.
http://uchigumori.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/IMG_4043.jpg
http://uchigumori.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/IMG_3180.jpg
http://uchigumori.com/blog/2017/05/21/kato-damscus-polish-on-natural-stones-part-2/

I guess this sharpness is perfect for speciality knives.
I turned a petty Kintaro ame Blue steel into a razor with this stone and this combination gives me the best tool to cut grapes for example. Like one piece into 20 slices or when I have to cut very rape raspberries or for "sculpting" fish or meat.
I would use it for my Benriner slicer for example.


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## GoodMagic (Nov 8, 2019)

Aizu. It is just a perfect medium finisher. My first was from morhei/ carbon knife, just added another from shinichi. I also like my red Aoto from Jns. For finishers I like an Ohira Suita from jns, I’ve had it since 2012.


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## lemeneid (Nov 9, 2019)

Definitely got to be my giant Aoto. Big as hell, yet so fine and creamy. Finishes at about 5-6k but with hell of an aggressive edge!


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## lemeneid (Nov 9, 2019)

Also this nice Narutaki from @Badgertooth . Super hard, super fine and the finishing edge is stupidly sharp! Only my TFs are worthy of being finished on this stone.


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## Matus (Nov 9, 2019)

Probably my large Ohira Suita koppa from JNS. I am not looking for for another suita. It is fast, super nice feel and gives a perfect edge. I have more natural stones that I like, but this one is special.


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## inferno (Nov 9, 2019)

i dont own any jnats yet, but so far my favorite ones are nutmegs uchigumoris


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## nutmeg (Nov 9, 2019)

inferno said:


> i dont own any jnats yet, but so far my favorite ones are nutmegs uchigumoris


wise words


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## K813zra (Nov 9, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> Definitely got to be my giant Aoto. Big as hell, yet so fine and creamy. Finishes at about 5-6k but with hell of an aggressive edge!
> 
> View attachment 64423



I like the looks of that mud. Not thick and not thin. It does indeed look like it would feel creamy in use.


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## Xenif (Nov 9, 2019)

For polishing, my two favourites right now are a Nakayama Karasu, around 3/3.5 hardness, very smooth, gives the nicest kasumi, high contast while keeping hagane bright. The other favourite is a Mizukihara Namito around 4 hardness, smoother than a baby dolphin once you get it goin' , gives very nice polish, but also reveals every single scratch you've put on, earning the tile of "Stone of Revelation"

For my edge, Okudo suita koppa, my very first suita, and it was a total winner. For lower grit applications I really like my Aoto, puts out a really aggressive edge.


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## inferno (Nov 9, 2019)

Xenif said:


> For polishing, my two favourites right now are a Nakayama Karasu, around 3/3.5 hardness, very smooth, gives the nicest kasumi, high contast while keeping hagane bright.



i for one, feel that you need to show pics of this!! 
show pr0n!


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## Xenif (Nov 9, 2019)

inferno said:


> i for one, feel that you need to show pics of this!!
> show pr0n!







Dry




Wet




Kiradashi polish




Polish on the bevel of Mazaki Nakiri with aforementioned Namito, really hard Kouzaki, and the karasu


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## inferno (Nov 9, 2019)

god damn!


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## PalmRoyale (Nov 10, 2019)

This is another suita I like a lot. It's very soft and the particles are hard enough to put a 5-6k scratch pattern on the jigane but soft enough to put an almost flawless polish on the hagane. Only the lightest pressure in required because the jigane pulls material from the stone from the first light stroke. There's one line that sometimes releases some crunchy material though so I just dig it out.


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## Barry's Knives (Nov 10, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> Definitely got to be my giant Aoto. Big as hell, yet so fine and creamy. Finishes at about 5-6k but with hell of an aggressive edge!
> 
> View attachment 64423


Whered you get it?


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## lemeneid (Nov 10, 2019)

Barry's Knives said:


> Whered you get it?


Got it from a member here who got it from Aframes.

this was the one.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/rare-hard-aoto.42015/


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## Barry's Knives (Nov 10, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> Got it from a member here who got it from Aframes.
> 
> this was the one.
> https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/rare-hard-aoto.42015/


Thinking of picking one of these up! Do you use it as a finisher?


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## Badgertooth (Nov 10, 2019)

This one.






Or this one.


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## lemeneid (Nov 10, 2019)

Barry's Knives said:


> Thinking of picking one of these up! Do you use it as a finisher?


I do. It’s a finisher for some of my knives. It’s actually very fine if you keep working on it so it will work excellent as a finisher.


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## aboynamedsuita (Nov 10, 2019)

Badgertooth said:


> This one.
> 
> View attachment 64532



Beautiful inky slurry [emoji76]


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## _THS_ (Nov 11, 2019)

Definitely this as my favourite jnat, shobudani suita, soft, quite fast, and clean.
The second one is a suita I recently acquired and it's rapidly becoming a personal favorite


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## Marcelo Amaral (Nov 11, 2019)

Badgertooth said:


> This one.
> 
> Or this one.



Which stones are those, Badgertooth?


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## childermass (Nov 20, 2019)

Finally getting around to answer this:
My favorite pair (at the moment [emoji4]):





Super cool Ikarashi, a really great stone for edge work and a fine polishing stone too:





Yaginoshima Suita, perfect to refine the edge off the Ikarashi and a very capable polishing stone leaving great contrast quite easily:


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## Badgertooth (Nov 20, 2019)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> Which stones are those, Badgertooth?



Ohira Hatanaka suita is the first one. And I don’t know what the second is. I wrote to Morihei thinking the serial number might be one of theirs hoping to ascertain some provenance but they confirmed it wasn’t one of theirs but that the quality was of a high standard.


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## valgard (Nov 21, 2019)

Probably these three. The Nakayama suita is my all time favorite stone, the Aizu has been my go to edge stone for a very long time now, and the Mikawa nagura is maybe the best polisher I have used.


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## Badgertooth (Nov 21, 2019)

valgard said:


> Probably these three. The Nakayama suita is my all time favorite stone, the Aizu has been my go to edge stone for a very long time now, and the Mikawa nagura is maybe the best polisher I have used.View attachment 65239
> View attachment 65240
> View attachment 65241



Yeah.. dasnaaais


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## Xenif (Nov 21, 2019)

I think I might've found a new favourite suita .... This one from Yaginoshima, it gives a spectacular edge on the carbs. It has really nice feel and feedback, looks pretty and decent size


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## XooMG (Nov 22, 2019)

I think my favorite Japanese stones are a soft finisher I got from a questionable vendor, and a hard finisher that was a reject from Otto and Carlos.


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## valgard (Nov 22, 2019)

XooMG said:


> I think my favorite Japanese stones are a soft finisher I got from a questionable vendor, and a hard finisher that was a reject from Otto and Carlos.


Calling that stone a reject is harsh [emoji23]. But I'm glad you still enjoy it.


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## XooMG (Nov 22, 2019)

valgard said:


> Calling that stone a reject is harsh [emoji23]. But I'm glad you still enjoy it.


I need to experiment with it more but I imagine it's only a reject due to looking boring.

Seems like it can put a solid layer of pretty on knives though.


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## XooMG (Nov 28, 2019)

And some evidence that even untrustworthy sources happen upon some decent stones from time to time:


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## tgfencer (Nov 29, 2019)

I’ve got the brother to Otto’s Hatanaka ohira, which is an awesome stone, but I honestly use this okudo suita the most. You can get a great polish off it if you’re careful with your pressure. However, as a final finishing stone it’s pure gold. I can jump to it from anything 1k+, and the grabby feedback it provides beneath the edge makes it so, so easy and fast to sharpen with.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Nov 29, 2019)

Beautiful stone, Todd. Just out of curiosity: the brighter area, with a lot of pink renge is faster than the other areas?


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## tgfencer (Nov 29, 2019)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> Beautiful stone, Todd. Just out of curiosity: the brighter area, with a lot of pink renge is faster than the other areas?



Hard to say whether it's faster per se, but it definitely feels smoother and slightly less grabby. I'm hoping that this section is indicative of the next layer coming up as the surface gradually wears away. Honestly though, once there's some mud on this thing, the whole stone is super smooth, even with a big wide bevel pressed down on the stone.


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## musicman980 (Nov 29, 2019)

tgfencer said:


> I honestly use this okudo suita the most. You can get a great polish off it if you’re careful with your pressure. However, as a final finishing stone it’s pure gold. I can jump to it from anything 1k+, and the grabby feedback it provides beneath the edge makes it so, so easy and fast to sharpen with.



Very nice Okudo. My favorite is this Okudo suita.


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## Xenif (Nov 29, 2019)

musicman980 said:


> Very nice Okudo. My favorite is this Okudo suita.
> 
> View attachment 65745
> 
> ...


Is that an Ikarashi the the left? Looks cool!


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## musicman980 (Nov 29, 2019)

Xenif said:


> Is that an Ikarashi the the left? Looks cool!



Thanks! It sure is, a very clean one. I smoothed the other sides after this pic was taken, so it looks even better now in my opinion. The JNS 300, Ikarashi, and Okudo all in the photo make a great progression. I’m thinking of moving the Okudo and my Nakayama Asagi to chisel duty though, and finishing my knives on a Kouzaki Aoto.


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## inferno (Nov 29, 2019)

how is an ikarashi? compared to synths i guess and also compared to finer grained nats. 
talking speed for synths and talking kasumi finish/contrast for nats.


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## musicman980 (Nov 29, 2019)

inferno said:


> how is an ikarashi? compared to synths i guess and also compared to finer grained nats.
> talking speed for synths and talking kasumi finish/contrast for nats.



I haven’t tested mine enough to give a great answer, I don’t even have it with me right now. I noticed it cut well after a 100 grit SiC flattening. Can’t compare it to a similar synth, but with slurry it removed the JNS 300 scratches in minutes. After prepping the surface with 600 grit sandpaper and not using any slurry the cutting speed dropped, if I remember correctly. I was planning on refreshing the surface with an atoma the next time I use it. Kasumi has a good contrast, haven’t tested that enough with slurry, but with no slurry it can be a bit uneven and maybe slightly scratchy. It’s been a while, sorry!


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