# Coffee conundrum



## MrHiggins

My drip coffee machine (Bonavita) sprung a leak (you pour water in, and it pours out the bottom. How does that even happen?!?) 

Anyway, I'm now in the market for a new coffee maker. 

I don't necessarily need an electronic drip, and am here to solicit comment on what I should buy to replace the Bonavita for my morning coffee.

Relevant factors are: 1) I like coffee first thing in the morning, and I don't want to work too hard for it; and 2) I don't mind cleaning up, but some of these drip makers have way too many nooks and crannies that get gunked up.

I have a French press that's going to fill the gap for now. I may stick with it, but maybe you coffee aficionados have a better idea for me.

Any opinions?


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## Ochazuke

Aeropress! Once you get used to it, it’s a breeze to use. The coffee is so much better than any drip pot.


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## RonB

I love my Aeropress... I did buy a strainer to replace the paper filters though.


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## MrHiggins

Is it worth getting an aeropress if I already have a French press?


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## RonB

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/aeropress-coffee-maker/


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## Corradobrit1

I never got on with the Aeropress. Besides portability I don't think it offers much more than a good French press. Returned it.

This is considered one of the best regular coffee machines. Comes in different formats like it can collect the coffee in a SS flask or glass. Not cheap but the quality is there and has a 5 year warranty.
https://www.amazon.com/Technivorm-Moccamaster-Coffee-Brewer-Polished/dp/B002S4DI2S

Personally I couldn't live without my lever machine
https://londiniumespresso.com/store/londinium-i


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## MrHiggins

Corradobrit1 said:


> I never got on with the Aeropress. Besides portability I don't think it offers much more than a good French press. Returned it.
> 
> This is considered one of the best regular coffee machines. Comes in different formats like it can collect the coffee in a SS flask or glass. Not cheap but the quality is there and has a 5 year warranty.
> https://www.amazon.com/Technivorm-Moccamaster-Coffee-Brewer-Polished/dp/B002S4DI2S
> 
> Personally I couldn't live without my lever machine
> https://londiniumespresso.com/store/londinium-i


I'm coming over to your house for coffee sometime!


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## Corradobrit1

Its not just the machine. The grinder is equally, if not more, important. Same goes for the beans.


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## Matus

Someone needs to play devil's advocate  so I a, going to suggest you get a $15 Mocca


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## Ochazuke

MrHiggins said:


> Is it worth getting an aeropress if I already have a French press?


They only seem similar. Totally different extraction method from a French press. 

Kinda like a yanagiba and a sujihiki look similar but are very different knives  (not that knives brew coffee yet.... to my knowledge).


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## AT5760

How many people are you making coffee for? I have really good success with a cheap 4-cup Black & Decker. But I grind good quality beans immediately before brewing and only brew about 14oz at a time.


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## Ochazuke

AT5760 said:


> How many people are you making coffee for? I have really good success with a cheap 4-cup Black & Decker. But I grind good quality beans immediately before brewing and only brew about 14oz at a time.


I will say that grinding freshly roasted coffee beans right before use makes a huge difference. I’d rather make that change to my coffee routine than changing my brewing method.

Keep in mind though that when you use freshly roasted beans. The flavor profile will dramatically decrease within 1-3 weeks after roasting (depending on how you store them, temperature and humidity matter).

If I were to suggest one change it would be to get a burr grinder and buy 1 pound of whole beans at a time from a local coffee roaster.


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## Ochazuke

This is not so much for the OP as the other coffee freaks reading this.

If you don’t mind work and haven’t tried it yet, take the time to get good at using a gooseneck kettle and a Hario V60. You’ll never go back to anything else. Your results are purely based on your own skill though, so users beware. (This is in addition to getting a good burr grinder and freshly roasted beans of course).


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## Carl Kotte

I have the technivorm mocca master. It is alright. I wouldn’t replace it, but I cannot give my warmest recommendations either. It is OK.


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## stringer

The wife and I tried a lot of setups before we settled on our current configuration.

1. Hot water pot
2. Adjustable burr grinder with hopper and timer to automate grinding
3. French press

This produces absurdly better coffee than a drip. You can fine tune every step to your particular tastes and to whatever particular bean you are brewing. It's still fast and convenient. Especially if you remembered to make sure there's beans in the hopper, water in the pot, and the French press is clean before you went to bed. Wake up, push two buttons, pour everything in the French press, wait 7 minutes.


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## Xenif

How about just doing Pourover/handdrip?


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## Ochazuke

Xenif said:


> How about just doing Pourover/handdrip?


I agree with pour overs for everybody except the OP. It’s the method with the most variability. If you’re not paying attention to grind, water temp, bloom duration, and pouring technique you can get vastly different results. I think he’s looking for something a little simpler.


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## MrHiggins

Ochazuke said:


> I agree with pour overs for everybody except the OP. It’s the method with the most variability. If you’re not paying attention to grind, water temp, bloom duration, and pouring technique you can get vastly different results. I think he’s looking for something a little simpler.


I'm considering pour over. I buy freshly roasted beans from a very good coffee roasters (they're usually still warm when I pick the up) and use a manual burr grinder. I can easily weigh things out on my digital scale.

I'm enjoying a French press brew right now, and it's way better than my now-broken drip machine (not that I didn't know that before). I was probably just getting lazy. May now that fate has forced my hand, I may stick with these other methods for a while (e.g. French press/aeropress(maybe)/ pour over).

Bottoms up!


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## Bensbites

I am a bit of a coffee nerd, to the point where I roast my own beans and remineralize my RO water. 

My three favorite brewing methods, in no particular order. Aeropress, clever coffee dripper (I have the original and the ceramic version from Bonavita) and my behmor autodrip machine. I have learned I like my coffee steeped and filtered best. 

Good luck.


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## MrHiggins

I just bought (from Amazon) a Kalita pour over vessel and the paper filters. I've always used a gold filter in my drip machine and am surprised to see all the pour over systems use paper. Do you get a cardboard taste? We'll see, I guess!


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## lowercasebill

Do consider the clever coffee dripper. You can let it steep like a french press


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## WPerry

Corradobrit1 said:


> Personally I couldn't live without my lever machine
> https://londiniumespresso.com/store/londinium-i



Oooh - nice machine. I've got a Quickmill Anita (E61 grouphead) and a Mazzer Mini. I'm with you - if/when it breaks down, and it's not feasible to repair, it'll be replaced with something similar. But that's probably not going to happen for a while - I bought an E61 because of the robustness and serviceability. It's about 12 years old now and used every morning (every morning that I'm not out of town, at least). Doing the back-of-the-Starbucks-napkin math, I've been making money on the duo for several years.


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## Corradobrit1

Practice makes perfect.

I buy roasted coffee in 5lb bags from reliable sources (usually Klatch, Redbird coffee, Cafe Lusso and Danesi), weigh out 200g quantities into zip lok bags and store in the freezer.


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## Corradobrit1

Bensbites said:


> I am a bit of a coffee nerd, to the point where I roast my own beans and remineralize my RO water.
> 
> My three favorite brewing methods, in no particular order. Aeropress, clever coffee dripper (I have the original and the ceramic version from Bonavita) and my behmor autodrip machine. I have learned I like my coffee steeped and filtered best.
> 
> Good luck.


When I eventually retire i can see myself getting into roasting my own beans. Do you remineralize the water because you live in a soft water area? My machine is plumbed in and I use a water softening system from Chris Coffee. Scale is your enemy.


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## Bensbites

Corradobrit1 said:


> When I eventually retire i can see myself getting into roasting my own beans. Do you remineralize the water because you live in a soft water area? My machine is plumbed in and I use a water softening system from Chris Coffee. Scale is your enemy.



I place my behmor under the kitchen stove vent and roast start to finish while cleaning the kitchen from dinner or a weekend breakfast. No extra time. 

My drinking water is run through an RO system.


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## lowercasebill

Bensbites said:


> I place my behmor under the kitchen stove vent and roast start to finish while cleaning the kitchen from dinner or a weekend breakfast. No extra time.
> 
> My drinking water is run through an RO system.


Behmor under range hood. Berkey water filter.


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## ThinMan

MrHiggins said:


> I just bought (from Amazon) a Kalita pour over vessel and the paper filters. I've always used a gold filter in my drip machine and am surprised to see all the pour over systems use paper. Do you get a cardboard taste? We'll see, I guess!



I don't want to put you off the Kalita, it makes a great tasting cup of coffee, but coffee from the Kalita made my stomach hurt. 

Most days I use a Hario V60 with the Hario filters, like @Ochazuke recommended. I also use Chemex with the white bleached filters (no cardboard taste). Depending on how much coffee you want, you can make more coffee in a Chemex.


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## lowercasebill

these actually make great pour over. They are popular in Japan. Great if you are traveling.


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## Paraffin

I recently retired our old Bunn electric drip machine and replaced it with a Technivorm Moccamaster 10 cup with a thermal carafe, thanks to recommendations here. Very happy with it so far, using a Baratza Encore grinder for beans. 

I make strong coffee, higher than normal ratio of grinds to water. Two cups (mugs) for me in the morning, and one more for my wife who is usually up an hour or two after I am. The thermal carafe keeps coffee hot that long. We sometimes have guests in the house, so with a "10-cup" electric drip + thermal carafe machine, I can make 5 mugs of coffee for everyone. And then another batch if needed. 

So your choice of method kinda depends on whether you're only making for yourself or a group at times. If I lived alone, I might use a more basic manual pour-over method, or maybe French press, I dunno. With occasional guests, I like the flexibility of an electric auto drip machine.


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## ian

Some thoughts:

1) Freshness of the beans is paramount. IMO, the sweet spot is 2 days after roasting so I roast every morning to keep the supply coming. There’s a certain je ne sais quoi that comes from roasting them over an open fire, so I usually do it outside in a cast iron pan in the BGE, over a combination of apple and pear wood. It’s important to keep the beans turning in the pan, so remember to bring some chopsticks for ultimate control. My roasting process was greatly simplified recently, though, when I found these new implements for starting the fire more efficiently:

https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Wood...words=matches&qid=1563294846&s=gateway&sr=8-5

#lifehack

2) Water quality is important. It’s essential to get the right balance of minerals. I have also found that water quality decreases when stored, so I usually just freshly distill some in the morning, and then I pour it over some river stones that I selected on a recent trip to the Alps, for about 15 min. It’s important to rough up the stones a little with a hammer first for optimal extraction. (Any bits of stone will be filtered out during brewing.) I’ve thought about automating the pouring process with some sort of pump and inclined plane, but I don’t want to sacrifice the control that you get by doing it by hand, and there’s something about the vertical motion (as opposed to just putting the stones in the bucket and stirring) that results in a more complex flavor.

3) I use a simple pourover system for brewing. I prefer the profile of a cup brewed at higher elevations, though. I used to use a drone, but sometimes I’m a little bleary eyed in the morning, and controlling it became difficult. But as a birthday present, my wife gave me a hypobaric chamber, so I can brew at the equivalent of 20,000 ft no problem. You just have to be careful to change the pressure slowly after you enter, otherwise it can be hard to bear.

TLDR: it’s not a big deal to make a great cup every morning. You can do it, and still have time to do other things in the afternoon.

(Seriously, I use a Bonavita or a pour-over system. Prefer the taste of the pour-over, but like the convenience of the Bonavita.)


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## HRC_64

> ...my wife gave me a hypobaric chamber...



ROFL


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## Lars

I wouldn't use beans the haven't rested and degassed for 7-10 days after roasting.


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## Corradobrit1

Lars said:


> I wouldn't use beans the haven't rested and degassed for 7-10 days after roasting.


I wait at least 5 days before use or freezing.


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## Lars

Corradobrit1 said:


> I wait at least 5 days before use or freezing.


It really makes a world of difference.


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## Noodle

lowercasebill said:


> View attachment 56813
> these actually make great pour over. They are popular in Japan. Great if you are traveling.



What is this? Can’t read the writing on the product. We’re pour over people and this looks like something my wife might like when she’s on the road.


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## Paraffin

Heh... I like the BGE cast iron roasting. 

One of these days I might try home roasting, but where we live now, we're a 5 minute drive to a local coffee specialist place that does their own blends and roasting. So I can get roasted beans reasonably fresh, buying them once a week. One of the perks of living out here on the PNW coast; people take coffee seriously. What would kick me over the edge and into home roasting would be if we moved someplace where that wasn't available.


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## Xenif

lowercasebill said:


> View attachment 56813
> these actually make great pour over. They are popular in Japan. Great if you are traveling.


I bought a ton of these, and I make like 10-20 bags before I travel. Brewing one the plane, made everyone sniffing out the coffee.


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## Xenif

MrHiggins said:


> I just bought (from Amazon) a Kalita pour over vessel and the paper filters. I've always used a gold filter in my drip machine and am surprised to see all the pour over systems use paper. Do you get a cardboard taste? We'll see, I guess!









See you on the other side!


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## CoteRotie

This is primarily down to personal taste. I know people who are fine with instant coffee, and people who source, roast and grind their own beans like some of the responders here.

I buy freshly roasted beans from small roasters who put a roast date on the bag, grind my own beans and only make espresso or in a pinch french press coffee because that's what I prefer. 

I recommend buying the freshly roasted beans and grinding yourself, but I'd suggest trying out different coffee making methods to find out what you like best. (It probably has nothing to do with anything called Keurig.)


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## MrHiggins

Corradobrit1 said:


> I wait at least 5 days before use or freezing.


I've never heard you should rest your beans. You learn something new everyday!


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## MrHiggins

Xenif said:


> View attachment 56826
> 
> 
> See you on the other side!


Team Kalita!


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## CTKC

I’ve owned the Technivorm for about two years now and would give it a strong recommendation. It heats the water quickly to a sufficiently high temperature; it’s easy to keep clean. It brews into a stainless steel container (so no burner to ruin the coffee), and there are no fancy electronic gadgets or timers or the like to break. If you clean the parts right after brewing, the plastics don’t seem to absorb bad tastes or smells, so the coffee I get today is pretty much the same as the day I bought it. Simple, so it won’t satisfy any high tech urges, but it will make an excellent cup of coffee every time (with the usual assumptions about quality fresh beans, etc.).

MWH


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## Dragon_Stone

Late to the convo. Another vote for Aeropress. I mainly got it because the acid in regular coffee bothers my stomach.

In a perfect I world I’d buy a $1,000 espresso machine, roast and grind my own bean and savor a cup in my leisure before work.

Even though I like the Aeropress I don’t always have time for it. I do recommend Illy pre ground in the can. Coffee snobs are sure to scorn me but I don’t care.

One thing for sure if you make a black americano you’re going to taste what your coffee really taste like. No hiding bad coffee or even good coffee with a distinctive taste. If you’re use to bland mild coffee masked with cream, sugar and artificial flavors you might be in for an unpleasant surprise. Or you might discover a whole new world you’ve been missing. Either way the Aeropress is so cheap you’re not risking much.


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## Desert Rat

Vacuum pots make a good cup of coffee. The problem with them has always been cleaning through the narrow neck. Not sure what is on the market these days. I broke my last one that was a vintage probably from the 40's.


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## aboynamedsuita

I use a Hario French press 99% of the time. I have the Hario copper V60 setup too but don’t use it much. The Hario Syphon is cool too, I replaced the plastic handle with a custom walnut one.

Here’s a pic and a time lapse video


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## MrHiggins

I appreciate everyone's recommendations and opinions. I almost went for an Aeropress, but opted to stick with my French press and added a pour over system. I prefer the coffee I get from the press and it's working perfectly with my morning schedule.


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## Bert2368

stringer said:


> The wife and I tried a lot of setups before we settled on our current configuration.
> 
> 1. Hot water pot
> 2. Adjustable burr grinder with hopper and timer to automate grinding
> 3. French press
> 
> This produces absurdly better coffee than a drip. You can fine tune every step to your particular tastes and to whatever particular bean you are brewing. It's still fast and convenient. Especially if you remembered to make sure there's beans in the hopper, water in the pot, and the French press is clean before you went to bed. Wake up, push two buttons, pour everything in the French press, wait 7 minutes.View attachment 56803



^^^
This.

I find that either of my French press pots using 180° F water and a 5 minute dwell time before pressing will walk all over any barista coffee I have ever purchased. USING FRESH GROUND WALMART sourced "8 O'clock" brand WHOLE BEAN COFFEE.

If I buy green coffee beans and roast my own, it can get even BETTER.


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## Chips

French press fans might want to take a gander at the "French Pull" method. Makes a cleaner cup, limits potential astringency from over-extraction, and doesn't really take too much more effort.

https://www.home-barista.com/brewing/french-pull-t27325.html


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## stringer

Chips said:


> French press fans might want to take a gander at the "French Pull" method. Makes a cleaner cup, limits potential astringency from over-extraction, and doesn't really take too much more effort.
> 
> https://www.home-barista.com/brewing/french-pull-t27325.html



I'll definitely try it. That looks brilliant.


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## Bert2368

Chips said:


> French press fans might want to take a gander at the "French Pull" method. Makes a cleaner cup, limits potential astringency from over-extraction, and doesn't really take too much more effort.
> 
> https://www.home-barista.com/brewing/french-pull-t27325.html



The first try was enough to convince me.


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## Corradobrit1

^^^^ Thats a VERY coarse grind. I'd be surprised its optimal.


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## gman

i'm a little late to the party. lots of good tips here, but one thing that i think needs to be stressed is the importance of temperature control and timing. too hot, poured too fast, and you'll get bitterness. not hot enough, not poured fast enough, you'll get sourness. somebody mentioned letting beans rest to allow out-gassing, and yes that's important, but not strictly necessary. wetting with hotter water, just enough to cover the grinds, will drive the carbon dioxide out before completing the brew with cooler water. you can use an instant read thermometer, or you can use a stop watch. either way, use trial and error to find the right temp for your particular beans and brew method.


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## Bert2368

Corradobrit1 said:


> ^^^^ Thats a VERY coarse grind. I'd be surprised its optimal.



That rather coarse grind is, by trial and error, about correct for 180° F water in the French press pot used as per manufacturer's instructions ( 5 minute dwell time, push down/pressure, not pull up/vacuum).

It's not half bad used in pull up mode either, I just made another pot and it seems quite fine.

I have been using a little Braun "blender" style grinder, this does not produce a uniform grind. If I erred in the direction of too fine, I got over extraction and poor results.

If I erred in the direction of too coarse, I merely needed to use a bit more coffee to get the desired intensity. Yes, my bean to water ratio has ended up being quite high.

I probably should invest in a burr type grinder for more uniform particle size and start WEIGHING the coffee.

Soon enough, making my breakfast coffee shall take me half way to lunch time...


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## stringer

Those blender grinders are only good for making fine ground black pepper.
This is the conical burr grinder I use for coffee. We've had it about 8 years. We haven't touched the settings in about 7.

https://www.amazon.com/Capresso-560...ocphy=1018127&hvtargid=pla-465686412632&psc=1

I worked in an Indian restaurant for a few years. Turns out that conical burr grinders work great for grinding curry blends from whole spices too.


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## Lars

By the time my kettle has heated the water I will have my beans weight out and ground no problem.

Love the french press though. I always use that for guests. Makes a very rich and satisfying cup. 

For my own morning cup I use a V60. That is my favorite way to brew these days. 

My Aeropress have been in the basement for years and I sold my Dalla Corte Mini and Mahlkonig K30 last year.


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## Corradobrit1

Bert2368 said:


> That rather coarse grind is, by trial and error, about correct for 180° F water in the French press pot used as per manufacturer's instructions ( 5 minute dwell time, push down/pressure, not pull up/vacuum).
> 
> It's not half bad used in pull up mode either, I just made another pot and it seems quite fine.
> 
> I have been using a little Braun "blender" style grinder, this does not produce a uniform grind. If I erred in the direction of too fine, I got over extraction and poor results.
> 
> If I erred in the direction of too coarse, I merely needed to use a bit more coffee to get the desired intensity. Yes, my bean to water ratio has ended up being quite high.
> 
> I probably should invest in a burr type grinder for more uniform particle size and start WEIGHING the coffee.
> 
> Soon enough, making my breakfast coffee shall take me half way to lunch time...


Invest in a used burr grinder. They're not expensive and will make a huge difference to the reproducibility of the extraction. Capresso is an excellent choice. I used a Rancilio Rocky for many years. Now I use a Nouva Simoncelli Clima Pro flat burr grinder. Some say the grinder is more critical than the coffee maker.


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## Paraffin

Bert2368 said:


> I have been using a little Braun "blender" style grinder, this does not produce a uniform grind. If I erred in the direction of too fine, I got over extraction and poor results.
> 
> If I erred in the direction of too coarse, I merely needed to use a bit more coffee to get the desired intensity. Yes, my bean to water ratio has ended up being quite high.
> 
> I probably should invest in a burr type grinder for more uniform particle size and start WEIGHING the coffee.



Yeah, agreeing with the others here -- you need a burr grinder so you can actually experiment with different fine, medium, and course grinds in a predictable way, instead of getting a mix of everything like the cheap blade grinders.

I'm using a Baratza Encore, not super expensive and the quality seems very good. Only complaint is that it's a wee bit messy with grinds escaping the container due to static attraction, but I gather that's a shared problem with most of these grinders.

Weighing your coffee is also a good idea when experimenting with a new setup, or new beans. I started weighing the grounds at first to compare the new Technivorm drip machine to the old Bunn it replaced. Now I'm using it as I work my way through a few different blends of beans from a local roasting company. Keeping the weight of grounds exactly the same each morning with different beans makes it a more fair comparison. After I settle on one blend, I'll probably go back to eyeballing the amount in the filter.



> Soon enough, making my breakfast coffee shall take me half way to lunch time...



Ah, it's not that much extra effort. You get faster with practice.  

And there is always automation. The next thing I'd really like to have, is a grinder with a built-in scale to automatically grind a certain amount by weight, like exactly 65 grams every morning. Those are expensive though, and I would have trouble sneaking it into the kitchen without explanation to the wife, since I just got this Baratza Encore recently.


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## Corradobrit1

Agree with Paraffin. Coffee extraction is a science. Trial and error helps but there are some shortcuts at least from my experience making espresso. I weigh the coffee grounds and the extraction. Basically 15g grounds in a 14g basket. A 15 sec pre-infusion and then pull the shot, aiming at approx 30g in 30secs.

Its possible to tame the static in the grinder by spraying the beans with a little water from a spray bottle prior to grinding.

The more control you have over the variables the better chance you have of fixing issues when they arise.


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## Wasz

One thing I would like to add. I'm not way far down the coffee hole, but I did take a good look. One thing I found is there are a lot of recipes that have very strict instructions, because you need tight controls to be repeatable with so many variables. It makes it easy to get caught up in doing things exactly to recipe.

When you find a cup that you really enjoy, it doesn't matter if it's exactly to a recipe. If the cup tastes great to you, then you did it right. Individual taste is important.


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## Bert2368

And as one is using a natural material, you can never throw the same beans in a river twice.


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## Keith Sinclair

MrHiggins said:


> I appreciate everyone's recommendations and opinions. I almost went for an Aeropress, but opted to stick with my French press and added a pour over system. I prefer the coffee I get from the press and it's working perfectly with my morning schedule.
> View attachment 57518



Conical hand grinder, fresh beans, and a French press make a good cup of coffee. I make for two and sometimes company so a pour over that mists the grinds first and a thermal pot keeps it hot a while.


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## akirapuff

Corradobrit1 said:


> Its not just the machine. The grinder is equally, if not more, important. Same goes for the beans.


what kind of grinder are you using?


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## Corradobrit1

akirapuff said:


> what kind of grinder are you using?


Flat burr Nuova Simonelli Mythos 



ClimaPro


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## akirapuff

very nice. dont tell me thats your strada machine.


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## akirapuff

my grinder has a similar burrset, designed after your mythos burrset. monolith flat 2019


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## Corradobrit1

akirapuff said:


> very nice. dont tell me thats your strada machine.


Nope. I prefer manual lever machines. This is mine


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## Corradobrit1

akirapuff said:


> my grinder has a similar burrset, designed after your mythos burrset. monolith flat 2019View attachment 58623


Think you're right. 75mm flat titanium burr set.

I like the idea of being able to single dose with the Monolith


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## Bert2368

I suffer in grinding poverty...


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## akirapuff

buy a hand grinder , kinu m47 or something from orphan espresso! superb grinding capabilities but no motor power..


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## bm11

Reviving this, as I am just now going down this rabbit hole. I've been a long time Keurig user, and just started with an Aeropress/Porlex hand grinder setup a couple days ago. There is a little bit of a learning curve, my first cup didn't come out that amazing, but now I'm really digging the results. Its fun to see how much difference you can make with the different variables!


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## Chips

The overlap of online enthusiast forums fascinates me a bit. I love seeing all of this awesome coffee/espresso gear, but didn't want to post much about coffee here. I'm TomC on HB, for what it's worth (not much).


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## Keith Sinclair

Hand grinding rules us old farts need the exercise.


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## Paraffin

Keith Sinclair said:


> Hand grinding rules us old farts need the exercise.



That's too much work for this old fart. Maybe if I lived alone, but I grind 65 grams every morning for the two of us. Tonight we have overnight guests, so that will be two 80 gram batches, at least.


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## lowercasebill

Paraffin said:


> That's too much work for this old fart. Maybe if I lived alone, but I grind 65 grams every morning for the two of us. Tonight we have overnight guests, so that will be two 80 gram batches, at least.


Zassenhaus and i do live alone


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## Keith Sinclair

I grind for two also don't mind.

My nieces husband is a coffee guy. 100 percent Kona beans & French press. Only the parents drink coffee the kids love to hand grind the beans


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## Trouthead

We have a Technivorm. It seemed a bit weird at first and has more parts than a regular old Mr. Coffee style drip, but after using it for a week or so the brilliance of its design showed through. Easy to clean, makes good coffee (fresh ground every morning), and will keep it hot for about 90 minutes. almost all the parts are replaceable.


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## Gorrion

I have a Gaggia Clásico espresso machine and a Nemox grinder for it, and for when I use my French Press I have a hand grinder. It is too much trouble trying to change the setting on the Nemox to make it coarser or finer. Beans I prefer are Guatemalan Single Estate but v v expensive so generally settle for Brazilian or Colombian. I notice nobody has mentioned time. My coarseness of grind for the French Press needs 8 minutes to reach full flavour. But it's worth it. I hand grind while the kettle is boiling. I need to rest the boiled water for about 2 minutes to get the temperature down to the mid 90s C so it's a long process. But, what the hell? I'm retired and it's 6 o'clock in the morning.


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## lowercasebill

Gorrion said:


> I have a Gaggia Clásico espresso machine and a Nemox grinder for it, and for when I use my French Press I have a hand grinder. It is too much trouble trying to change the setting on the Nemox to make it coarser or finer. Beans I prefer are Guatemalan Single Estate but v v expensive so generally settle for Brazilian or Colombian. I notice nobody has mentioned time. My coarseness of grind for the French Press needs 8 minutes to reach full flavour. But it's worth it. I hand grind while the kettle is boiling. I need to rest the boiled water for about 2 minutes to get the temperature down to the mid 90s C so it's a long process. But, what the hell? I'm retired and it's 6 o'clock in the morning.


I get my Guatemalan from sweet Maria's and roast my own. Even when i wasn't retired. At $6 lb it eventually pays for the roaster. However ypu said 90c and i suspect you might not be in the states


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## Gorrion

*You're right. UK. Wish I could get Guatamalan for £4 a lb. Single Estate cost me £8 for 250 gm (just over 1/2 lb). I do buy in bulk from Amazon but not single Estate. Anyway it is what it is. I have a kilo of pure Robusta coming soon. I shall be interested to try blending it with pure Arabica. Anyone else do that?*


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## Lars

Robusta is evil and should only be used if you are making traditional italian espresso - and you should really not make traditional italian espresso..


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## lowercasebill

Gorrion said:


> *You're right. UK. Wish I could get Guatamalan for £4 a lb. Single Estate cost me £8 for 250 gm (just over 1/2 lb). I do buy in bulk from Amazon but not single Estate. Anyway it is what it is. I have a kilo of pure Robusta coming soon. I shall be interested to try blending it with pure Arabica. Anyone else do that?*


I did once when i first started roasting. Good reason for only doing it once. Lar's comment is accurate


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## parbaked

Lars said:


> Robusta is evil and should only be used if you are making traditional italian espresso.


 ...or Thai ice coffee or Vietnamese coffee with condensed milk!


----------



## Bensbites

lowercasebill said:


> I get my Guatemalan from sweet Maria's and roast my own. Even when i wasn't retired. At $6 lb it eventually pays for the roaster. However ypu said 90c and i suspect you might not be in the states


Same here.


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## Gorrion

My trainer, when I first acquired my Gaggia Clásico, suggested that up to 15% Robusta in an espresso blend "added a bit of zip" to it, by which he meant that it increased the caffeine content of the espresso. What particularly do you have against Italian espresso, Lars? After all, according to an article in _Scientific American _some time in the 'Eighties (which unfortunately I've lost), it was an Italian named Illy who perfected the espresso (number of beans in a shot, temperature, pressure) and over here, certainly, many of the commercial espresso machines are made in Italy. 

Incidentally, in another issue of _Scientific American_ from the same period, there was a very interesting article concerning the history of Damascene steel and its particular qualities which stemmed from the ore which came from a particular mine in India until it was exhausted. After which time the quality and renown of the swords declined. Does any other member of the forum remember this?


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## Lars

If you are blending with milk, 15 or 20% will make the coffee taste more familiar to a lot of people. 
For me, I think the bitterness of Robusta is unpleasant especially when drinking espresso shots without milk. 
Nothing against Italian espresso machines. My Dalla Corte served me very well when I was still making espresso.


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## lowercasebill

My dislike of robusta is based on highly scientific and extensive research.
I tried it once and didn't like the way it tasted.


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## Luftmensch

Lars said:


> Robusta is evil and should only be used if you are making traditional italian espresso - and you should really not make traditional italian espresso..



"Espresso is the one true coffee
You shall have no other coffee before espresso"



Ya'll espresso pagans be heretics...





Gorrion said:


> What particularly do you have against Italian espresso, Lars?



To be fair @Lars said "_traditional_"... "_italian_" espresso. Why not do "new"... "world" espresso - whatever that is?


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## Paraffin

Luftmensch said:


> To be fair @Lars said "_traditional_"... "_italian_" espresso. Why not do "new"... "world" espresso - whatever that is?



Wouldn't New World Espresso be Cafézinho (Brazilian)? 

Years ago I worked for a while in Brazil, and you couldn't attend a business meeting without people bringing endless trays of that sugary thick stuff. People would get just _wired _on the combination caffiene and sugar high, all day long. 

That didn't stick with me though. What stuck was living and working in Costa Rica for a while, where they do American-style coffee with a cloth "sock" filter on a wire frame (at least that's the traditional way), and they make it really strong. Much stronger than American restaurant coffee. So that's what I make in the Technivorm, just really strong American coffee.


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## Matus

I rarely drink a pure espresso. I am one of those ignorant central Europeans who, without a glimpse of a shame would order cappuccino at 3pm in south Italy  . But when I do have an espresso I can not help but find most of them too sour (and sometimes bitter). Since we at home started to use the simple moka caffe pot I have not desire to get a multi-thousand € espresso maker. I simply love how it tastes - especially with caffe from south America (thought that statement is preliminary).


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## Corradobrit1

Matus said:


> I rarely drink a pure espresso. I am one of those ignorant central Europeans who, without a glimpse of a shame would order cappuccino at 3pm in south Italy  . But when I do have an espresso I can not help but find most of them too sour (and sometimes bitter). Since we at home started to use the simple moka caffe pot I have not desire to get a multi-thousand € espresso maker. I simply love how it tastes - especially with caffe from south America (thought that statement is preliminary).


I can't get the same enjoyment from espresso as I can from a milk based drink. Cappuccino (anytime of the day..... yep the horror) is my go to but at a pinch I'll do a macchiato. For that reason I like coffee blends that have a taste profile that can cut through the milk. It tends to be a mixture of arabica and robusta. Lots of chocolate, nut, dark fruit taste elements and a medium to dark roast.


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## Keith Sinclair

What ever floats your boat. I grind more beans to water ratio to get stronger brew. Pour over CM blooms the grinds first. Used to French Press the CM makes good cup ,& thermal pot keeps it warm a while.

Cultures are diff. Don't care for sugary coffee but plenty people do and drink it every day


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## podzap

We are on our second DeLonghi automatic machine now, I think the model is called Magnfica. You can get espresso or coffee with two button presses:

1. power on
2. choose from 4 buttons (single or double espresso, single or double coffee)

That's it.

There are two output spouts very near one another, so you can output double shots / double coffees into either one cup or two cups. Convenient when you have visitors.

DeLonghi automatic machines stand out above the rest in the consumer market for two major reasons:

1. Ceramic grinder - nobody wants a coffee machine with a bean grinder that is able to wake up the neighbors.
2. Horizontal-loading water tank - can't put your machine under a kitchen cabinet if it has a vertical-loading water tank.


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## Keith Sinclair

Can you foam art with the Delonghi? . Maybe a stupid question wonder if you can use almond milk in foam stage.


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## podzap

Mine only has a steam frother but DeLonghi also makes models with a milk tank and built-in frother.

The built-in frothers in all coffee machines are designed for the specific temperature reactivity of cow milk only. Putting almond or oat milk inside of heating / frothing systems that are temperature designed for cow milk WILL result in clogged up tubes, pumps, etc and a visit from the repairman.

That said, I don't like steam frothers or built-in frothers. The first one sucks and the second one is high-maintenance and fickle. We have a Jura automatic milk frother.


----------



## slickmamba

I really need to get into roasting my own beans. $16 for 12oz of fancy espresso beans is killing my wallet


----------



## podzap

slickmamba said:


> I really need to get into roasting my own beans. $16 for 12oz of fancy espresso beans is killing my wallet



Holy smokes. I buy dark roasted "espresso" beans at my local supermarket for 6.99 EUR (7.81 USD) a kilo (3.55 USD a pound).


----------



## Corradobrit1

slickmamba said:


> I really need to get into roasting my own beans. $16 for 12oz of fancy espresso beans is killing my wallet


You're doing it all wrong. Buy bulk and freeze in small 250g portions. I get some excellent beans from Klatch, Redbird or Caffe Lusso (if I'm feeling flush). Discounted price is around $60 shipped for 5lbs.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

podzap said:


> Holy smokes. I buy dark roasted "espresso" beans at my local supermarket for 6.99 EUR (7.81 USD) a kilo (3.55 USD a pound).[/QUOTE
> 
> I get pretty good deal on Kona beans
> You posted that Jura did some reaserch. Ordered a hand held frother .
> Says you can do soy & almond milk with it. In my older age can't handle muçh diary. Just heat milk to certain temp & froth it. We will see, took the cheap option.


----------



## podzap

Yeah we have one of those little battery-powered whisk frothers. We take it with us when we go up north on vacation, along with the stovetop Bialetti espresso percolator.


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## Luftmensch

Paraffin said:


> Wouldn't New World Espresso be Cafézinho (Brazilian)?



??? Hehe.... I dunno!??... Or parts of Oceania?



Paraffin said:


> Years ago I worked for a while in Brazil, and you couldn't attend a business meeting without people bringing endless trays of that sugary thick stuff. People would get just _wired _on the combination caffiene and sugar high, all day long.



Cafe Bombon can be fun - but this is a dessert class drink - like an affogato. I couldn't do it routinely.



Matus said:


> I rarely drink a pure espresso. I am one of those ignorant central Europeans who, without a glimpse of a shame would order cappuccino at 3pm in south Italy  . But when I do have an espresso I can not help but find most of them too sour (and sometimes bitter).



 Despite my previous (joking) zealousness, I am 100% with you. I am a fan of espresso _based_ coffee - from (mostly) double shot flat whites to piccolo lattes. Occasionally macchiato... very rarely pure esspresso. Absolutely zero shame if milk is involved.



Corradobrit1 said:


> I can't get the same enjoyment from espresso as I can from a milk based drink. Cappuccino (anytime of the day..... yep the horror) is my go to but at a pinch I'll do a macchiato. For that reason I like coffee blends that have a taste profile that can cut through the milk. It tends to be a mixture of arabica and robusta. Lots of chocolate, nut, dark fruit taste elements and a medium to dark roast.



I think another 'coffee' is really just a veiled excuse for me to have more milk. I feel similar - a bean that can cut through the milk without being dominant is my preference. 



Keith Sinclair said:


> What ever floats your boat.



Jokes aside.... basically this ^^^

... there is no wrong way (except if it is not espresso based )


----------



## Bensbites

slickmamba said:


> I really need to get into roasting my own beans. $16 for 12oz of fancy espresso beans is killing my wallet


Only $16... lol. 

Ok seriously, it’s not that hard. I am convinced I can take $6-7/lbs green to the equivalent of $20/lbs roasted coffee in the time it take me to clean the kitchen after a meal. Multitasking means no wasted time. It takes about 20 minutes to roast a pound, about 45 min start to finish. I figure I save about $10 per pound.


----------



## slickmamba

Bensbites said:


> Only $16... lol.
> 
> Ok seriously, it’s not that hard. I am convinced I can take $6-7/lbs green to the equivalent of $20/lbs roasted coffee in the time it take me to clean the kitchen after a meal. Multitasking means no wasted time. It takes about 20 minutes to roast a pound, about 45 min start to finish. I figure I save about $10 per pound.



$16/12oz is like $21/lb . I was originally getting like $24/lb or almost $30/lb beans(bird rock roaster) since they were local, but it was nuts, so I got something a little cheaper. I mostly go to cafe virtuoso nowadays or get something small batch from whole foods/trader joes for like $10-12/lb. 

I'll try roasting my own eventually but don't know if I can match the consistency of dedicated roasters. How do you do it?


----------



## Bensbites

slickmamba said:


> $16/12oz is like $21/lb . I was originally getting like $24/lb or almost $30/lb beans(bird rock roaster) since they were local, but it was nuts, so I got something a little cheaper. I mostly go to cafe virtuoso nowadays or get something small batch from whole foods/trader joes for like $10-12/lb.
> 
> I'll try roasting my own eventually but don't know if I can match the consistency of dedicated roasters. How do you do it?



I have a behmor 1600. They got for about $350 now and I would replace it in a heartbeat if needed. It is one of the only economical priced home roasters that can handle a pound at a time. Basically, once I found the area of coffee I like (central/South American coffees) I figured out I liked coffee labeled “sweet”. It was a fun journey. 

Basically I set up the roaster and stop it once first crack finishes. Plenty consistent for me. PM me if you want me to send you a sample. There are cheaper and more expensive ways to do this but I get what I want out, so I am pretty happy. I have converted several friends. I have many more thoughts, but I want to make sure people are interested before I spew coffee experiences.


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## slickmamba

Bensbites said:


> I have a behmor 1600. They got for about $350 now and I would replace it in a heartbeat if needed. It is one of the only economical priced home roasters that can handle a pound at a time. Basically, once I found the area of coffee I like (central/South American coffees) I figured out I liked coffee labeled “sweet”. It was a fun journey.
> 
> Basically I set up the roaster and stop it once first crack finishes. Plenty consistent for me. PM me if you want me to send you a sample. There are cheaper and more expensive ways to do this but I get what I want out, so I am pretty happy. I have converted several friends. I have many more thoughts, but I want to make sure people are interested before I spew coffee experiences.



Wow that looks interesting. I'd be down to try some out. At first I hated this whole 'bright' third wave espresso thing, but I recently went and tried old school dark roast espresso, and now I prefer the bright stuff. Damnit. I also like 'sweet' and sweet fruit flavors.

I've seen some over the stove options, and some fancy automated $3000 options, haha. I saw that instant pot has a new fancy air fryer with a rotissery option, I wonder if it would take a drum.

edit: Apparently it comes with a drum, but the holes look a little big for greens. Dunno tho


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## Keith Sinclair

podzap said:


> Yeah we have one of those little battery-powered whisk frothers. We take it with us when we go up north on vacation, along with the stovetop Bialetti espresso percolator.



Used a large hand held at work to mix pots of salad dressing. Also a small battery to blend all kinds of stuff for special dishes. 

Love the smell of roasting coffee.


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## lowercasebill

Bensbites said:


> I have a behmor 1600. They got for about $350 now and I would replace it in a heartbeat if needed. It is one of the only economical priced home roasters that can handle a pound at a time. Basically, once I found the area of coffee I like (central/South American coffees) I figured out I liked coffee labeled “sweet”. It was a fun journey.
> 
> Basically I set up the roaster and stop it once first crack finishes. Plenty consistent for me. PM me if you want me to send you a sample. There are cheaper and more expensive ways to do this but I get what I want out, so I am pretty happy. I have converted several friends. I have many more thoughts, but I want to make sure people are interested before I spew coffee experiences.


I do the same. Use Guatemalan but 12 oz at a time and hit the cool button once it hits the second crack.
Behmor has paid for itself many times over. I replaced the halogen heat lights a few years back. No regrets


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## LostHighway

This is all about budget and personal preference but here is what I use:
I grind beans (Baratza Vituoso) while the water is heating and use manual pour over (Chemex or Melitta). Clean up is simple - toss or compost filter and grounds and it makes a carafe of coffee with minimal effort. I also own and occasionally use an AeroPress, a Kalitta 185 (like AeroPress only makes one or two cups at a time), vacuum siphon, and a French Press. I think the AeroPress probably makes the best coffee but is too fiddly for volume AM production.
If I was going to buy an automatic machine I'd probably buy a Technivorm or maybe an OXO or Bonavita. The later two probably won't last as long as the Technivorm but are significantly cheaper (made in PRC unlike the Technivorm).
Per earlier posters the quality of the grinder matters almost as much as the making process. A very good grinder is essential for decent espresso and important for other methods, French Press especially. IMO the Virtuosos is inadequate for good espresso and you need to look at $700+ grinders.
I roast my own beans in a Behmor 1600. This represents a budgetary restraint, there certainly are better roasters but for much more money.
I'm not a fan of freezing roasted beans for storage.


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## Keith Sinclair

When tried almond milk no success with hand mixer. Bought Silk Barista Soy Milk. Problem solved can get thick & thin foam. Has a little sugar in it, gellan gum to help the frothing.


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## LiLimoon

I have been using Aeropress with metal reusable filter. Aeropress coffee turns out way better than Tassimo and somewhat better than french press (at least to me). It also depends on the coffee you drink. I've only been drinking Mushroom Coffee lately. For the morning ritual, this is the best coffee. I haven't seen such a good ingredients in a long time. It is completely organic and suitable even for vegans. I have been drinking this coffee for a month now and I noticed that I became more focused and less irritable. I think it's all thanks to the coffee))


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## Luftmensch

Isnt coffee:



LiLimoon said:


> completely organic and suitable even for vegans.


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## MarcelNL

roasting your own coffee is as much a rabbit hole as as Jknives as is making your own espresso, BUT it's rewarding when it works.

One downside to always having fresh roasted beans is that accepting coffee made with supermarket or wholesale coffee which usually is at least 3 months past its roast date is something I tend to avoid, so I often go without coffee on the go.

Whether it is economical depends on the amount your roast, what beans you source and if you factor in time invested and how you value your end product and what you compare it to. I started making my own espresso when I realized how much I was paying Nespresso for my monthly ration, that investment paid of real quick and it paved the way to a huge jump in quality.

I like to think I'm ahead of buying roasted coffee by roasting my own on a Huky 500 as we go through like 2-3 kilo's per month, yet the sky is the limit for some home barista's using 10k+ pro machines to drink 4 double espresso's a day.

Buying the taste 'overroasted cheap beans roasted 6 months ago' is always cheaper though, because big companies buy ultra cheap greens (not likely even close to fairtrade conditions for the farmers).
I probably could do that 'flavor' for like 8 euro per kilo using direct trade greens if I ever wanted to...any origin flavor is literally burnt out of those beans and for mostly that is done for a reason.


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## Lars

I pay a little more than €35 for a kilo from my favorite roaster, but I only drink one cup in the morning so a little goes a long way.


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## MarcelNL

life is just too short to drink bad coffee!


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## Keith Sinclair

Would imagine smelling the beans roasting is a pleasure. 

Tried the soy milk with a hand frother for a while. Now back to drinking black.

My Camano hand grinder has lasted 7 years grinding every day. It has steel conical gears. The newer model has ceramic gears and has gone up in price.


----------



## MarcelNL

LiLimoon said:


> I have been using Aeropress with metal reusable filter. Aeropress coffee turns out way better than Tassimo and somewhat better than french press (at least to me). It also depends on the coffee you drink. I've only been drinking Mushroom Coffee lately. For the morning ritual, this is the best coffee. I haven't seen such a good ingredients in a long time. It is completely organic and suitable even for vegans. I have been drinking this coffee for a month now and I noticed that I became more focused and less irritable. I think it's all thanks to the coffee))


Are those mushrooms added to the coffee those that 'the elders' used to seek spiritual wisdom? THAT would clarify becoming less irritable ;-)


----------



## MarcelNL

Keith Sinclair said:


> Would imagine smelling the beans roasting is a pleasure.
> 
> Tried the soy milk with a hand frother for a while. Now back to drinking black.
> 
> My Camano hand grinder has lasted 7 years grinding every day. It has steel conical gears. The newer model has ceramic gears and has gone up in price.




roasting smells great but you want to direct the fumes outside as they contain chlorogenic acid, and the amount of smoke makes it an outside the house job anyway.


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## AT5760

@Keith Sinclair how efficient is that hand grinder? time/oz. I like the simplicity of my Hario hand grinder, but it feels like it takes too long to grind my daily cup.


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## Keith Sinclair

I look at it as needed exercise for senior citizen . It is very effective. You can adjust grind with a nut on threaded screw. If you like very fine grind it is too much work more resistance & takes longer. Have found medium grind easier makes a good cup of Joe.

When I shop park on top deck or far side of parking lot. People in Hawall like to park as close to the store possible so don't have to walk. Used to do that it spot open, but would get chips in my paint from big SUV car doors. Came out one day had chipped paint on area right below hood. A SUV had backed into me & long gone.

Another I don't mind walking senior attitude.


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## AT5760

Thanks! My wife complains about the noise of the grinder, so I'm usually hunkered down in the basement getting my coffee ground so that I don't wake her or the kids. Not exactly that "morning ritual" that some people talk about, but it's a lot better than getting a bag of pre-ground, burnt garbage from the grocery store.


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## Keith Sinclair

Another thing like about the Camano is glass ball screw on jar. It is wide enough at base with the short grinder to rest on table top when you grind.

My better half likes to hear the grinding. She doesn't like to do it. If take too long to get started, she says aren't you going to make coffee. A polite way of saying hurry up I want my coffee.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

Coffee has been my first food related hobby, even before knives. In fact I just picked up a Lelit Bianca this weekend to replace my Domobar Super. I've been roasting for a long time too, although I'll occasionally buy some roasted espresso beans.
After reading the initial and recent posts, for a machine nothing beats a Technivorm. For a grinder shoot for a hand grinder to limit noise and its effective and easily storeable.
I have more coffee equipment and beans than I care to share, anyone can PM me with questions.


----------



## WPerry

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> In fact I just picked up a Lelit Bianca this weekend to replace my Domobar Super.



Is this your first machine with pressure profiling? I'm months away, at the very least, but I've been thinking about replacing my old Quickmill Anita with a dual-boiler, rotary pump, PID-controlled, etc, etc, and I'm seeing the pressure control as a $200-300 option on some of the machines that I'm considering (ECM/Profitech, etc). I'm undecided on whether it'd be novelty for me, one that would wear off quickly, or if I'd come down with a case of FOMO if I didn't spend the money on it (though I'm assuming that it wouldn't be that much more expensive or difficult to install after the fact).


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

WPerry said:


> Is this your first machine with pressure profiling? I'm months away, at the very least, but I've been thinking about replacing my old Quickmill Anita with a dual-boiler, rotary pump, PID-controlled, etc, etc, and I'm seeing the pressure control as a $200-300 option on some of the machines that I'm considering (ECM/Profitech, etc). I'm undecided on whether it'd be novelty for me, one that would wear off quickly, or if I'd come down with a case of FOMO if I didn't spend the money on it (though I'm assuming that it wouldn't be that much more expensive or difficult to install after the fact).


Yeah, it is. I'm weak when it comes to new widgets. The machine gets great ratings too.


----------



## WPerry

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Yeah, it is. I'm weak when it comes to new widgets. The machine gets great ratings too.



Very cool. If you'd be so kind, check back in with your thoughts after you've got a good feel for it. Part of me likes to tinker, but part of me likes to KISS. Profiling like this might be a nice compromise between my traditional E61 box and something like a DE1 that might just drive me crazy with options.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

WPerry said:


> Very cool. If you'd be so kind, check back in with your thoughts after you've got a good feel for it. Part of me likes to tinker, but part of me likes to KISS. Profiling like this might be a nice compromise between my traditional E61 box and something like a DE1 that might just drive me crazy with options.


No problem, years ago I picked up a Mazzer Major i haven't used yet. Should be a great match.


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## Lars

I have only tried pressure profiling on a la marzocco strada, but I did not think it improved anything really. Ymmv.


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## MarcelNL

tsss, a major going unused, blasphemy! I'm currently using one with SSP red speed burrs to go with my Urania, no pressure profiling needed here, double ristretto's do me fine.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

MarcelNL said:


> tsss, a major going unused, blasphemy! I'm currently using one with SSP red speed burrs to go with my Urania, no pressure profiling needed here, double ristretto's do me fine.


Its one I bought second hand...I have a Mazzer Mini im have dialed in I've been using.


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## MarcelNL

Mazzer Majors should only be bought second hand, at around the price of the hefty aluminium body!
Mine is at least 25 years old but these things are built like tanks, together with the SSP burrset it'll outlive me.


----------



## WPerry

I've got a Mazzer Mini, as well. Needs a new set of burrs. Trying to decide among: direct replacement of the burrs (cheapest), replacing with Super Jolly burrs/carrier (more expensive), and getting a new Niche Zero (most expensive, but then I could sell the Mini). The single dose aspect does seem pretty appealing to me, so that I could switch beans more readily, etc.


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## MarcelNL

try ditching the hopper , shove a tube in the throat and start using a microhopper...I'm doing that and load with enough beans for a couple of shots but enough the preload the burrs with enough weight to grind evenly. I hate single dosing because you either have to put up with a grind that varies from beginning to end, OR have to load the beans one by one....
My vote would be on the SJ carrier and some SSP burrs IF your mini has the torque (whatever you do don't get the three phase burrs)


----------



## Paraffin

I've tried not to fall too deep down the coffee rabbit hole, which is a little easier because I'm not into espresso. My wife and I just drink a couple cups of very strong American coffee in the mornings. I've been very happy with the Technivorm Moccamaster drip machine I bought last year, and a Baratza Encore grinder.

There is one upgrade I'd really like though, and that's an automatic weight-based grinder like the Baratza Vario-W. I grind by weight every morning, 65 grams measured on a small digital scale before it goes in the Encore hopper. I could simplify my morning routine by just using a marker on the hopper but I like using the weight method for consistency and comparing different beans from the local roasting company.

A weight-based grinder would make for a few less steps on those bleary hangover mornings when I just want my coffee ASAP. On the other hand, I'm not sure I can sneak a new $550 Vario-W grinder into the house past my wife, when the Encore works fine. Is there anything else I should be looking at, or are all the weight-based grinders up in that price range? I need at least an 8oz hopper like the Baratza for times when I'm brewing a larger batch for guests.


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## MarcelNL

You can also put a timer on your grinder, I'm using an old 80ies darkroom timer (yeah I know how that sounds) that automatically cuts power after the 6 or so seconds it takes to grind a double. Adjustable to like 0.2 gram accuracy.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

Just to clarify, I don't drink espresso directly...either with hot water added or steamed milk.


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## MarcelNL

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Just to clarify, I don't drink espresso directly...either with hot water added or steamed milk.


it is forgiven 
To each his own, I do many Cappa's in the morning too! My Liquid breakfast.


----------



## ma_sha1

I might get kicked if this is a coffee forum. I’ve been making steam force-dripped coffee from expresso machine using corse grind, possibly making enemies with both camp? To me, 2-shot Americano style gives better tasting coffee than drip, with expresso foam but without bitterness.

However, I discovered that most expresso makers use aluminum boiler, & slowly dissolved aluminum is toxic to the brain. After a long search, I finally found a replacement with stainless boiler: De’Longhi ECP3220W 15 bar expresso machine. Loving it so far, this is not a high-end machine, but I am drinking Americano aluminum-free.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

Hmm, you must be referring to cheap espresso makers. My boiler is stainless steel. Same with my previous machine.

Also, no judgment you like what you like.


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## ma_sha1

Yes, I am at the entry level, most boilers are aluminum. 

I could be wrong but I’d imagine most coffee drinkers from knife forums are at this level, fewer are in the hobby level with expensive machines?


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## MarcelNL

stainless, or copper does not necessarily mean REAL expensive...


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## WPerry

Yeah, I would think (hope?) that the vast majority of espresso machines, ones that count on pumps rather than steam pressure, use either copper or stainless boilers.


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## MarcelNL

Look up the Cafelat Robot, simple, not even a pump and you can get espresso (without the x) from it that is pn par with the best machines avalable.


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## Keith Sinclair

I can see how a low Rpm power grinder is good esp. when grinding large amount of beans. 

On occasions where have company fill the small hopper on hand grinder full grind and add some more beans. 

Just for two of us one full hopper load of fresh Kona beans is perfect for strong cup of American coffee.

I look at the steel grinding gears they will last longer 7 years already and are functional mechanical art.


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## ian

AT5760 said:


> Thanks! My wife complains about the noise of the grinder, so I'm usually hunkered down in the basement getting my coffee ground so that I don't wake her or the kids. Not exactly that "morning ritual" that some people talk about, but it's a lot better than getting a bag of pre-ground, burnt garbage from the grocery store.



I’ve found that most of the noise is transmitted through the counter. I pick up my entire grinder and hold it during the morning grinding to spare the neighbors and my wife. My wife can’t hear it through the walls anymore.


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## Keith Sinclair

Steel grinding gears on Camano good for many more years. New ones have ceramic gears no way last as long.


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## MarcelNL

ian said:


> I’ve found that most of the noise is transmitted through the counter. I pick up my entire grinder and hold it during the morning grinding to spare the neighbors and my wife. My wife can’t hear it through the walls anymore.



I have a silicone mat under my grinder (Ikea), that indeed cuts noise in half.


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## MarcelNL

ma_sha1 said:


> Yes, I am at the entry level, most boilers are aluminum.
> 
> I could be wrong but I’d imagine most coffee drinkers from knife forums are at this level, fewer are in the hobby level with expensive machines?



I could be wrong but I would expect more folks on this forum to also dive in other rabbit holes such as espresso, I recognize a few nicks from the HB forum if I ain't misstaken. Still, life is too short to drink bad coffee, and even with very little investment you can get to very very good coffee....buy a used pro grinder, those pop up regularly for around 150, get a vintage lever, those go for anything from as low as 300 to the sky is the limit (think Unicorns), buy from a decent roaster and practice a bit.

Same as with knives, once you know how it can cut/taste/etc.....


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## Illyria

Loving my 1zpresso K-plus grinder.

Hand grind 25g of beans for my v60 in 35 seconds
Hand grind 18g of beans for an espresso in 45 seconds.

Way, way more accurate than my old machine grinder and barely requires any effort.


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## Keith Sinclair

MarcelNL said:


> I could be wrong but I would expect more folks on this forum to also dive in other rabbit holes such as espresso, I recognize a few nicks from the HB forum if I ain't misstaken. Still, life is too short to drink bad coffee, and even with very little investment you can get to very very good coffee....buy a used pro grinder, those pop up regularly for around 150, get a vintage lever, those go for anything from as low as 300 to the sky is the limit (think Unicorns), buy from a decent roaster and practice a bit.
> 
> Same as with knives, once you know how it can cut/taste/etc.....



Was researching this. We are only two she liked the straight espresso coffee in Italy.

We don't use milk 

Was looking at La Paroni EPC 8 cup Lever espresso machine chrome. 

Might have to get diff. Grinder mine is too much work for fine grind.


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## Paraffin

MarcelNL said:


> You can also put a timer on your grinder, I'm using an old 80ies darkroom timer (yeah I know how that sounds) that automatically cuts power after the 6 or so seconds it takes to grind a double. Adjustable to like 0.2 gram accuracy.



That could remove the "weight it on a scale" step after some careful calibration, but I've gotten fanatical about wanting to know the exact weight of beans going into the grinder, when exploring different beans from the local roaster. It's one way to limit variables -- just grind by weight and compare. Different beans will grind at different speeds depending on bean size, roast intensity, and density 

The timer method is great if you've settled on a bean source and roast and don't want to change it, just looking for consistency. Personally, I'm still enjoying the "hunt" and using weight gives me a fixed measuring point for comparisons.


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## damiano

WPerry said:


> Yeah, I would think (hope?) that the vast majority of espresso machines, ones that count on pumps rather than steam pressure, use either copper or stainless boilers.


I have a decade old Vibiemme Domobar (bought new) and I believe it has a copper boiler too. Great machine, simple and effective.


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## MarcelNL

there sure is lots of OCD going around in the espresso community ;-)
I find that weight is pretty stable across beans and roasts, half a gram more or less won;t change parameters that much. Looking at flow and flow over time the timer can easily be adjusted by empirically to adress any changes from the sweet spot for weight if coffees are reasonably comparable.


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## MarcelNL

Keith Sinclair said:


> Was researching this. We are only two she liked the straight espresso coffee in Italy.
> 
> We don't use milk
> 
> Was looking at La Paroni EPC 8 cup Lever espresso machine chrome.
> 
> Might have to get diff. Grinder mine is too much work for fine grind.



there are some nice hand grinders that do espresso well and manyy grinders create too much fines to get a nice cup, but be prepared for the effort as grinding finer will be more effort with any grinder.


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## AT5760

Reading the espresso comments is as confusing as reading about single bevel sharpening. Some things in common with "normal" coffee, yet so many differences.


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## Keith Sinclair

Looked up Cafelat Robot gets good reviews for pulling shots of espresso. Excuse my lack of knowledge seems like even with a lever machine you would have to clean out filter add more coffee for each controlled pull. Noticed on Robot has a double spout so can do two small cups at once. 

How about the lever machines like La Paroni ECP 8 cup do you have to change coffee with each pull. How do auto machines work isn't the idea pressure extracts flavor from the grinds you can't use old grinds again?


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## Moooza

I use the Cafelat Robot every day. It definitely bats way out of it's league.


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## Keith Sinclair

Yep since I just want straight espresso no sugar or milk. That looks like a good option. Looks like they are built to last.


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## Keith Sinclair

Moooza said:


> I use the Cafelat Robot every day. It definitely bats way out of it's league.



What kind of grinder do you use & how fine.


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## Moooza

Keith Sinclair said:


> What kind of grinder do you use & how fine.


I have a Niche Zero. Perfect combination, although I have a Kafatek on the way...

Fineness varies quite a bit depending on the bean and puck prep. But the Niche can handle it all. Good beans, then a good grinder is so important.


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## Keith Sinclair

Have access to good beans. Going to pick up a grinder. Looked up puck prep thanks.


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## MarcelNL

The process is fairly straight forward, you need a GOOD grinder (I'm using an older Mazzer Major with SSP burrs). Good grinders are a-plenty but can get as expensive as Unicorn knives....(that Kafatek is the very high end). 
A used Mazzer Super Jolly should not break the bank(150ish) , throw in new burrs for 50 bucks, clean it, align the burrs and you;re set for the rest of your life.

You will need to use fresh grounds for each shot, but you can split double shots into two small single espresso's . Adding hot water makes an Americano which is close to filter/french press. Fresh roasted beans from a good roaster are key to success , as is a good grinder, aim for 14 gram of grounds in, 30-35 grams of espresso out over 30 or so seconds after a short pre infusion of say 10-20 sec.

The Robot makes things ridiculously easy and repeatable, and indeed can keep up with the high end machines. My vintage lever, a Faema Urania makes a fantastic espresso but I'd have trouble identifying which does better; my Urania or the Robot I have for trips.


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## Keith Sinclair

Thanks guys for the help


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## Anton

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Coffee has been my first food related hobby, even before knives. In fact I just picked up a Lelit Bianca this weekend to replace my Domobar Super. I've been roasting for a long time too, although I'll occasionally buy some roasted espresso beans.
> After reading the initial and recent posts, for a machine nothing beats a Technivorm. For a grinder shoot for a hand grinder to limit noise and its effective and easily storeable.
> I have more coffee equipment and beans than I care to share, anyone can PM me with questions.


welcome to the Lelit family !


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## Luftmensch

MarcelNL said:


> The process is fairly straight forward, you need a GOOD grinder (I'm using an older Mazzer Major with SSP burrs). Good grinders are a-plenty but can get as expensive as Unicorn knives....(that Kafatek is the very high end).
> A used Mazzer Super Jolly should not break the bank(150ish) , throw in new burrs for 50 bucks, clean it, align the burrs and you;re set for the rest of your life.
> 
> You will need to use fresh grounds for each shot, but you can split double shots into two small single espresso's . Adding hot water makes an Americano which is close to filter/french press. Fresh roasted beans from a good roaster are key to success , as is a good grinder, aim for 14 gram of grounds in, 30-35 grams of espresso out over 30 or so seconds after a short pre infusion of say 10-20 sec.
> 
> The Robot makes things ridiculously easy and repeatable, and indeed can keep up with the high end machines. My vintage lever, a Faema Urania makes a fantastic espresso but I'd have trouble identifying which does better; my Urania or the Robot I have for trips.



Good advice... and starting parameters. But experiment!

Dose depends on your equipment. You can dose by volume or by weight (I choose volume). Extraction is preference. If the place where you buy your beans is switched on, they will be able to provide a recommended brew-ratio (1:2 - one gram in; two grams out, is pretty standard).


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## Keith Sinclair

My only experience with espresso was at work. Kahala Hilton had machine in the kitchen near waiters station.

I found that when came to work at 3pm for night shift liked to make a double espresso sure beat the cafeteria coffee.

When Janice came back from Italy trip with Hawaii tour, she said my pour over coffee was weak. I knew was because of espresso she had been drinking.

Was thinking of going to Starbucks ordering straight double espresso shot and double ristretto.

Never was into those milk and sugar coffee drinks that are so popular.


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## Luftmensch

Keith Sinclair said:


> My only experience with espresso was at work. Kahala Hilton had machine in the kitchen near waiters station.
> 
> I found that when came to work at 3pm for night shift liked to make a double espresso sure beat the cafeteria coffee.
> 
> When Janice came back from Italy trip with Hawaii tour, she said my pour over coffee was weak. I knew was because of espresso she had been drinking.
> 
> Was thinking of going to Starbucks ordering straight double espresso shot and double ristretto.
> 
> Never was into those milk and sugar coffee drinks that are so popular.



Australia is a coffee mad place. We were lucky to have a big wave of italian immigrants after WWII. They brought good coffee and good food. For several decades you have been able to throw a rock in the big capital cities and hit an independent cafe that makes decent espresso coffee. So much so that it is taken as a basic assumption (it is unremarkable). The generations of yuppies, foodies and hipsters has kept Australian coffee new age and easy to access 'artisanal' coffee.

On milky coffee. It is not for everyone - i like them. Depending on my mood, I like flat-whites (mostly), cappuccinos (with dessert) and piccolo-lattes (had too much milk for the day). The protein and fat in the milk gives the drink a different mouth feel and changes the flavour profile (tip - there are beans for milk and beans for straight espresso). BUT... coffee is a savoury drink. Like tea, don't go ruining it with sugar. Super fresh milk already has a lovely light sweetness to it.

Starbucks tried to open here and collapsed pretty quickly. That said... We do have our own 'fast'-coffee chain. They make sugar infused frappa-mappa-cappa-slappa-ccinos... or whatever.

To be fair, it is all cultural. I feel Australia excels at espresso but was late to the party with cold brew and good pour over coffee. It still might 'suck' in these areas. Filter and drip coffee has not been a significant feature of our culture for a long, long time. So I dont like to say American coffee is 'bad'... it is just not to my taste!


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## Keith Sinclair

_Coffee grows good at little altitude and rich volcanic soil here in Hawaii.

Have been hand grinding Kona coffee beans use pour over gives a pretty good cup of American. Used to use French Press. 

I want to up the game. As someone said life to short to not drink good coffee._


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## Luftmensch

Keith Sinclair said:


> As someone said life to short to not drink good coffee.


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## MarcelNL

Please forget Starbucks, at the coffee forum they are nicknamed Charbucks for a reason, once upon a time long ago they started out making somewhat decent coffee. These days they use automatic machines probably because proper Barista training and final product quality was less important than the bottom line. Their beans are not the quality you;d hope but for most customers all of that misery is drowned in the loads of sugar and fat that gets added to most of the fave beverages (the triple cardiac bypass frappucino's etc, just look at the calory tables in the shop what's in it)


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## Keith Sinclair

I know can find good espresso in Honolulu. Not at this time. We had a shut down, opened up with restrictions.
Cases spiked esp. in Pacific Islanders and other cultural groups that live in multi generation homes. Hospitals were getting busy so shut down again. Many small business are going belly up.


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## Keith Sinclair

Ordered my Cafelat Robot today in retro green.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

Again, this is coming next month, the latest release. Can't wait.


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## MarcelNL

Keith Sinclair said:


> Ordered my Cafelat Robot today in retro green.


I can say that it's a great color for the Robot! You won't regret this purchase!


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## MarcelNL

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Again, this is coming next month, the latest release. Can't wait.
> 
> View attachment 95772


Lelit?
this is my goto machine:


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

MarcelNL said:


> Lelit?
> this is my goto machine: View attachment 95773


Yes sir, a Lelit Biancca.


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## MarcelNL

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Yes sir, a Lelit Biancca.


great machines!


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## Keith Sinclair

Get my coffee from Koko Crater Coffee Roasters. 100 percent Hawaiian. Only10 minute drive from my house. Talked to the roaster he is a coffee expert. Told me when get my Robot will give me samples of different roasts. He said some of his Kona roasts make superb espresso. He does quite a bit for espresso.


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## MarcelNL

Is there any other coffee than espresso?  
With the Robot the only thing you have to find out is how much preheat (if any) you need for the roast type, Ultralight roasts are most challenging. Best start off with a medium roast, with something like a drop temperature of around 215'C, there is a HUGE thread on HB on using the Robot and various rituals people use to beg for great espresso, I never bother and get immensily satisfying cups with the standard grind setting I use for the Urania and just a bit of preheat.


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## Keith Sinclair

Usually espresso is a darker roast. A medium roast for my pour over makes a good cup of American. Most home users use coffee pots. Also pre ground coffee from store or Costco. I have seen people buying a bag of Starbucks beans then grinding the whole bag on Costco grinder. 

Some high end places order espresso but they are just servicing home people who know fresh beans are best a small percent. The hotels & everything that give them business are closed because of Covid. I just learned today that there are a small but growing number of people in Honolulu who want fresh beans for espresso. There is hope yet for us island Hicks.


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## Keith Sinclair

Thanks to you & Moooza for getting me started. Both of you described the pull on the Robot. I have watched plenty videos of people pulling shots since you posted the Robot site. I got the plain model without the pressure gauge.


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## MarcelNL

you definitely do not need the pressure gauge, espresso used to be a darker roast back when but since third wave coffee happened you need to take care not to land beans at or near the Nordic roast profile that seems to be a favorite of many yet most shops cannot extract a decent espresso from it. Medium roasts can be used for espresso or other preparations, the lighter a roast the finer the grind the more you need the hotter you extract and the more water you need to keep the acidity at bay. My sweet spot is medium roast, I don't like battery acid.
If you like Italian espresso you're like accustomed to very dark roast with a decent amount of Robusta beans in it, you may want to shop around for a blend or single origin coffee from a good roaster to your liking and to be able to compare where you are with the preparation learning curve.


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## Keith Sinclair

Thanks the beans I get now are medium roast more brown in color makes good pour over American. Medium grind on Camano hand crank.

Since started getting coffee from them couple years ago my pour over became better over store bought beans.

He said would give me sample roasts. He knew about the Robot.

I am upgrading my grinder. Wanted a power one not too big, easy to clean, single dose friendly. Looked on eBay for used ones most were too big & since new to espresso was not expert at all on power grinders.

Decided on Niche Zero had been looking at other cheaper options very good espresso grinders. Moooza loves his for easy setups for Robot. It got great reviews from coffee geeks. I'm sure it will compliment the Robot well & I won't care about the couple extra hundred bucks later down the line.


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## Lars

Keith Sinclair said:


> Thanks the beans I get now are medium roast more brown in color makes good pour over American. Medium grind on Camano hand crank.
> 
> Since started getting coffee from them couple years ago my pour over became better over store bought beans.
> 
> He said would give me sample roasts. He knew about the Robot.
> 
> I am upgrading my grinder. Wanted a power one not too big, easy to clean, single dose friendly. Looked on eBay for used ones most were too big & since new to espresso was not expert at all on power grinders.
> 
> Decided on Niche Zero had been looking at other cheaper options very good espresso grinders. Moooza loves his for easy setups for Robot. It got great reviews from coffee geeks. I'm sure it will compliment the Robot well & I won't care about the couple extra hundred bucks later down the line.


That sounds like a fun and workable setup. Enjoy.


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## Anton

MarcelNL said:


> Lelit?
> this is my goto machine: View attachment 95773


For real?


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## Keith Sinclair

Looks like the back of his Urania. That's what it says on the label. Vintage lever


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## Chips

I love the overlap between hobbyist forums. His Urania is sweet!


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## MarcelNL

Anton said:


> For real?



yep, It's a bit of a unicorn in the espresso world but a couple of years ago I ran into it and got a great deal, no hard thinking required and I never have regretted that purchase! Temperature stable because of the sheer mass of brass, it's on for like 6 hours a day.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

Chips said:


> I love the overlap between hobbyist forums. His Urania is sweet!


Yup me too. Only if I can get here, Home Barista, Badger and Blade, and AR15.com on one site, I'll be satisfied.


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## WPerry

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Yup me too. Only if I can get here, Home Barista, Badger and Blade, and AR15.com on one site, I'll be satisfied.



I haven't really visited B&B much since getting a Game Changer .68P over the winter, and the photography forums have been dormant for me for more than a year, but that's just as well - I have other obsessions hobbies that need the time and funds, too.


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## AT5760

For those looking for a new grinder and have $3,500 burning a hole in their pocket: EG-1 Electric Coffee Grinder


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## WPerry

AT5760 said:


> For those looking for a new grinder and have $3,500 burning a hole in their pocket: EG-1 Electric Coffee Grinder



That was in a video that James Hoffman uploaded yesterday (though it wasn't [directly] the subject of the video). Looks like a crazy microscope.


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## MarcelNL

AT5760 said:


> For those looking for a new grinder and have $3,500 burning a hole in their pocket: EG-1 Electric Coffee Grinder


for that sort of money I'd probably get a Kafatek Flat max, id at all. I'm good with my Mazzer Major with SSP Red Speed burrs.

Just keep in mind that these grinders cater for a niche; very lightly roasted beans that are notoriously difficult to extract and require ultrafine grinds with a very unimodal distribution.
Compare it to buying a 270 Kato WH to dice some cheese to go with some beer.


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## yubunski

MarcelNL said:


> for that sort of money I'd probably get a Kafatek Flat max, id at all. I'm good with my Mazzer Major with SSP Red Speed burrs.
> 
> Just keep in mind that these grinders cater for a niche; very lightly roasted beans that are notoriously difficult to extract and require ultrafine grinds with a very unimodal distribution.
> Compare it to buying a 270 Kato WH to dice some cheese to go with some beer.


Assuming that you can get your hands on a flat max! Most people have issues getting in on the pre-order. For those interested, the pre-order for the next batch is tomorrow 10/24 at 10pm PDT. They sell out in minutes......


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## MarcelNL

hey if folks here are able to get a Shig in their hands they ought to be able to get a Kafatek ;-)

FWIW I caution against getting an ultra high end grinder unless you are into LIGHT roasted high end coffee....


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## Lars

MarcelNL said:


> hey if folks here are able to get a Shig in their hands they ought to be able to get a Kafatek ;-)
> 
> FWIW I caution against getting an ultra high end grinder unless you are into LIGHT roasted high end coffee....


I’ll bite 
So because you are happy with your Major you are not into high end light roast coffee?


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## Moooza

The Kafatek grinders aren't just for light roasts. However personally, I wouldn't get a Max unless I was into lightly roasted filter coffee, otherwise the flat is more than enough. And the new conical is absolutely amazing if you're into that sort of thing. They're also not too hard to get if you know what you are doing.


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## MarcelNL

Lars said:


> I’ll bite
> So because you are happy with your Major you are not into high end light roast coffee?



It was no bait ;-)

Actually you are right, but the logic is reversed.
I am not into very light roasts and so my Major w SSP burrs does the job more than admirably. The differences between grinders are bigger the lighter roasts get. However, where I always was sure my roast was more medium/dark I have learned that I'm typically more in the light-medium range than I would have thought.

Recently did an exeriment with a darker roast and found it unpalatable, too roasty and lacking most other flavor notes, mouthfeel was great though.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

Hmm, couldn't find a relevant coffee thread, so I'll use this one. Can't wait to get this in, so excited. Awesome price too.









Panama La Esmeralda Gesha 1500


A show stopper when roasted light, floral peach and jasmine aroma, a tightly-knit profile of brown sugar with top notes of orange marmalade, honey tangerine and apricot juice. City to City+.




www.sweetmarias.com


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## Honerabi

* Been on the fence re. roasting my own. Anyone with experience with the **Hottop B KN-8828B-2K? Like the programmable features. Lots of freshly roasted coffee locally, so I've been buying the Yirgacheffe Arabica beans and grinding them just before use. Getting pricey though. 
 re. espresso machines, have been down the La Pavoni, Baby Gaggia, and San Marco route. Clean, pure water has been an issue. *


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## MarcelNL

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Hmm, couldn't find a relevant coffee thread, so I'll use this one. Can't wait to get this in, so excited. Awesome price too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Panama La Esmeralda Gesha 1500
> 
> 
> A show stopper when roasted light, floral peach and jasmine aroma, a tightly-knit profile of brown sugar with top notes of orange marmalade, honey tangerine and apricot juice. City to City+.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sweetmarias.com



somehow the Gesha's don't seem to make it to Europe as greens....I think I dare roasting one now, having upgraded my Huky to RTD's a while ago, which is making roasting so much more controllable.


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## MarcelNL

Honerabi said:


> * Been on the fence re. roasting my own. Anyone with experience with the **Hottop B KN-8828B-2K? Like the programmable features. Lots of freshly roasted coffee locally, so I've been buying the Yirgacheffe Arabica beans and grinding them just before use. Getting pricey though.
> re. espresso machines, have been down the La Pavoni, Baby Gaggia, and San Marco route. Clean, pure water has been an issue. *


find some mineral water with very low hardness and add some potassium bicarb (search HB forum for RPavlis water) to buffer acidity. I'm using it for years now and have never seen scale or corrosion since. 

Roasting your own is great, and affordable (if your coffee consumption is high enough)! Did you check out the Bullet roaster? Higher batch weight and great user reports. (I am using a propane powered Huky 500)


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

MarcelNL said:


> somehow the Gesha's don't seem to make it to Europe as greens....I think I dare roasting one now, having upgraded my Huky to RTD's a while ago, which is making roasting so much more controllable.


How odd, Sweet Maria's doesn't ship there? When all this pandemic passes, remind me to order some and reship to you.


----------

