# Bob Kramer Stainless Steel Damascus by Zwilling



## mturkel99 (Oct 8, 2013)

Hello all,

This is my first post. Thank you all for helping me realize that many of the well advertised products I had always assumed to be the pinnacle of modern cutting were little more than puffed up marketing ploys.

I have a load of questions, but I will keep this post confined to a single subject: the Kramer Stainless Steel Damascus Knives by Zwilling. The Shun version of these knives have taken a lot of flak on the forum, but I havent seen anything writing about the Zwilling versions (currently available at SLT [I am not sure if I am allowed to post a link, but google will do the magic just as well]). 

My wife and I are looking for some quality (and pretty) knives and are trying to decide between those and Misono X10s, so if anyone wants to chime in on that comparison, I would be much obliged. However, I am mostly curious as to whether people think that the Zwilling version of the Kramer SS Damascus is more or less on par with the other Zwilling Kramer knife (and thus better than the Shun [now discontinued]).

Thanks in advance for your time!


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## Lefty (Oct 8, 2013)

I've only used the carbon ZKramer, and it's a pretty fantastic knife. I really like the height of the blade, the large handle, the profile and the distal taper. The grind is nice and thin, but does create a fair bit of food sticking, because it's pretty danged flat. When paired with a tall blade, you'll notice more sticktion. Meh. As for whether or not the stainless version is better than Shun's - I'd blindly say yes. Zwilling has done a very nice job with the Kramer line, and if you want to fork out the money, they're really nice knives. You'll get many guys who will tell you not to spend so much on a "knock off", when you can get a lot of other great knives for the same price. However, someone recently said, "it's as close as I'll ever get to a Kramer, so why not?". 

As for Misono, I love their work, but they're nothing fancy, and more of a very nice working knife than they are a piece to use and display, at home.

By the way - Welcome!


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 8, 2013)

Welcome to KKF!

A quick search of the forum came up with this thread, which should answer most of your questions:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7821-New-Zwilling-Kramer-SG2

The search feature of the forum leaves a lot to be desired, so search using the Google function:

"<search term> site:www.kitchenknifeforums.com"

I used "kramer site:www.kitchenknifeforums.com" and the thread was on the second page.

Rick


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## Lefty (Oct 8, 2013)

Without reading it, if I'm not mistaken, the Stainless version was a bit thicker(?), but compared well.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 8, 2013)

Lefty said:


> Without reading it, if I'm not mistaken, the Stainless version was a bit thicker(?), but compared well.



It appears that way, but no actual measurements were provided, other than a weight difference of 16 grams. That, and the tip was said not to be as flexible.


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## mturkel99 (Oct 8, 2013)

Thanks all for the fast reply! The post you linked is exactly what I was looking for. Next time, I'll use the search function as suggested.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 8, 2013)

mturkel99 said:


> Thanks all for the fast reply! The post you linked is exactly what I was looking for. Next time, I'll use the search function as suggested.



You're welcome.

BTW, there is a Zwilling/Kramer stainless damascus paring knife for sale on B/S/T, if you are interested.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/14605-FS-Kramer-Damascus-Paring-Knife


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## Lefty (Oct 8, 2013)

And it's damn sexy!


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## Mucho Bocho (Oct 8, 2013)

The WS Shun Kramer Meiji like is the balls. It SG2 is heated so well done. I think the cladding is a little nicer on the Zwilling I think the the handle on the Meiji is nicer, more custom and I'm into WA anyway. I have the 6" chef knife and at home, grab for it on a regular basis.


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## Frater_Decus (Oct 8, 2013)

I have the Zwilling Kramer 5" carbon utility knife, and I have zero complaints about it. It's quickly become my go-to for all medium and small cutting scenarios. I don't like the profile on the chef's knife, though!


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 8, 2013)

Mucho Bocho said:


> The WS Shun Kramer Meiji like is the balls. It SG2 is heated so well done. I think the cladding is a little nicer on the Zwilling I think the the handle on the Meiji is nicer, more custom and I'm into WA anyway. I have the 6" chef knife and at home, grab for it on a regular basis.



It's too bad they aren't made anymore.


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## gic (Oct 8, 2013)

I have the carbon steel dammy Zwilling Kramer that looks pretty cool and gets scary sharp - not sure if it still made


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 8, 2013)

^^ Gic, is that the limited edition ZK Damascus? 


I have a couple of the ZK carbon and Really like them. I did have the 8" ZK Damascus but returned it a little later. It's a great knife but not near as good as the carbon. Does run a little thicker along the spine which takes away from the wonderful distal taper the carbon line offers. Also, when comparing the ZK Damascus to the shun meiji Damascus, the shun line performs just as great as the ZK but the meiji handle is just way better.
Just my opinion. .


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## EdipisReks (Oct 8, 2013)

gic said:


> I have the carbon steel dammy Zwilling Kramer that looks pretty cool and gets scary sharp - not sure if it still made



Isn't the damascus Z-H _not_ carbon?


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 8, 2013)

^^ they did a limited run of 8" carbon damascus. I believe 250 of them.


http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...Bob-Kramer-Carbon-Damascus-8-quot-Chefs-Knife


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## ThEoRy (Oct 8, 2013)

Why not take a minute to fill out the questionnaire?

The "Which Knife Should I Buy?" Questionnaire - v2
Please refer to the Kitchen Knife Knowledge subforum and the Kitchen Knife Glossary thread (LINK) for general information, including the knife types and other terminology used in this questionnaire.




LOCATION
What country are you in?



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Are you right or left handed?

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS


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## gic (Oct 9, 2013)

God no, I wouldn't spend 2k on that knife - you can get a Devin dammy for that! 

It seems to me that people who buy that knife don't know about great knife makers like Devin or Burke or Rader or Catchside or Marko or .... and are just too enamored of Kramer's reputation IMHO

Mine is apparently a variant on the standard 52100 Zwilling Kramer but one I haven't seen at my local sur la table or even on their on line site. The model number of mine is 34941-263.

The funny thing is that while this knife is available for sale online, none of the pictures shows that this is a dammy variant of the standard 10" Kramer Zwilling Euroline. Price is the same as the non dammy version - which shows you how real the dammy is! The dammy pattern on mine doesn't look anything like the 2k version

I got mine from someone who hated the belly at a good price :- )...


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## EdipisReks (Oct 9, 2013)

EdipisReks said:


> Isn't the damascus Z-H _not_ carbon?



Oh, that thing: yeah, no.


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## cclin (Oct 9, 2013)

gic said:


> God no, I wouldn't spend 2k on that knife - you can get a Devin dammy for that!
> 
> It seems to me that people who buy that knife don't know about great knife makers like Devin or Burke or Rader or Catchside or Marko or .... and are just too enamored of Kramer's reputation IMHO
> 
> ...



could you please post the picture of your carbon damascus Z-Kramer? I never see/heard such knife! I'm very interesting to see it....


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## Gravy Power (Oct 9, 2013)

OP is there any particular reason you want to do damascus?


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## gic (Oct 9, 2013)

You know I looked at it more closely and now I am not so sure it isn't a mustard patina rather than a dammy pattern (I bought it used after all)! Anyway here are some pics, not great however, apologiesView attachment 19229
View attachment 19230


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## mturkel99 (Oct 9, 2013)

Gravy Power said:


> OP is there any particular reason you want to do damascus?



In this case, two reasons.

First, it is pretty. :newhere:

Second, I don't want to go carbon steel since I am not confident in my sharpening abilities. I live in NYC, so I can get my knives sharpened well when I need to, but I'd rather limit that to once in a while. If you guys think that the carbon steel is significantly better, then I might consider going that route.


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## Gravy Power (Oct 9, 2013)

mturkel99 said:


> In this case, two reasons.
> 
> First, it is pretty. :newhere:
> 
> Second, I don't want to go carbon steel since I am not confident in my sharpening abilities. I live in NYC, so I can get my knives sharpened well when I need to, but I'd rather limit that to once in a while. If you guys think that the carbon steel is significantly better, then I might consider going that route.




It is pretty, and if you're looking for a trophy knife it's quite pristine. For the money your willing to spend, you could almost get a custom From Del Ealy. But damascus isn't going to hold an edge anly longer that any other knife.

Carbon is easier to sharpen, typically takes a keener edge and holds it longer, just requires more maintenence. Above all though, if you're investing this much in a knife, I suggest you considering purchasing your own stones and learning to sharpen yourself.


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