# Favorite nakiris?



## perneto (Apr 8, 2017)

So I have quite the stable of gyutos at this point but have yet to try a nakiri. What are your favorites, and what do you like about them? Stainless vs. carbon isn't an issue. 180mm is probably the length I'd go with. Budget isn't too much of a concern; neither is waiting time.


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## Matus (Apr 8, 2017)

I have used only 2 nakiris so far - Kanehiro 165 AS (a loaner from a friend) and a Toyama 180. Both are great. The AS is a great steel for a nakiri (holds up well to the 'chopping abuse'), the Toyama is more up my alley with slightly bigger size and higher weight. I shall get a Moritaka 180 AS in about a month if everything goes well - I do not really need it, but a friend wil be going directly to Moritaka, so he will pick up one for me.

I am still getting to know the Toyama, but I like it a lot. Very even grind (no low spots). After some experimenting I am getting a great finish on the cladding with a fine rust eraser from JKI - I can easily blend it with stone finish (up to Uchigumori) closer to the cutting edge.

I was VERY tempted by the Ikeda from Bernal, but the price was more than I was ready to pay (in particular after shipping and taxes). I would have got it (180mm, blue #1, damascus cladding) if the budget were not limited. It looks fantastic.

And of course you will hear a lot about 180 Watanabe - it seems that those are really good. I nearly got one myself, but could just not resist the Toyama.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Apr 8, 2017)

A love/hate affair in case you are considering it: The Sakon AS migaki. Rather thin OOTB and is going closer to laser territory each time I take a bit of shoulders off when sharpening - and there is something like an orderly kasumi finish starting on the first half inch of the blade by now - still somewhat irregular. The edge has quite a "tuning fork" quality to it. And there is the issue: No shinogi so no perfect looking easy thinning. And as for food release... it is best to lock non-used vegetables away firmly so they don't get stuck to the blade from a meter away. This can be used to advantage: you can store a portion of aromatics on the blade in its entirety and just drop it in the pan with a (plastic!) bench scraper, and you instantly notice any accordeoning... The price for that is a risk of wedging like stiction. And another issue: The edge is probably 1/2 HRC too hard and brittle for board use, and not truly strop friendly.


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## valgard (Apr 8, 2017)

Have only tried one nakiri, the Watanabe Pro KU 180mm nakiri. Went with it because it got a lot of recommendations and very happy I did. Here is what I think about it http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/32260-Impressions-on-Watanabe-Nakiri-Pro-KU-180-mm?p=481112#post481112


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## V1P (Apr 9, 2017)

We all know that Watanabe nakiri is great, but can anyone gives an insight on 180mm Kochi stainless clad nakiri?

I have researched the whole forum but no good reviews to be found.


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## Badgertooth (Apr 9, 2017)

Probably not the most popular knife around these parts but I have a Masakage Yuki Nakiri and I love it. Needs a little love behind the edge before it finds its stride but boy does she go after that.


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## Eitan78 (Apr 10, 2017)

SHIGEFUSA 165MM KU


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## Matus (Apr 10, 2017)

I have to admit I would love to hear more on Shigefusa KU nakiris as I have read a rather conflicting opinions on these. In general my impression is that it is a bit too thick/heavy - 165 is supposed to weight close to 200g.

V1P - Even without trying the Kochi nakiris I am 95% sure that these will fall through the food without noticing it. That is what the 180 Kochi santoku does. Your best option to findout more is probably just asking Jon.


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## V1P (Apr 10, 2017)

Thanks, Matus. I agree with your opinion, I just wonder which one I would like more without buying both.

I like my knives tall, hefty and thin edge. For the kochi, weight is around 180g, i wonder if the Watanabe is heavier. I guess the heavier one will get picked [emoji16].


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## perneto (Apr 10, 2017)

Matus said:


> I have used only 2 nakiris so far - Kanehiro 165 AS (a loaner from a friend) and a Toyama 180. Both are great. The AS is a great steel for a nakiri (holds up well to the 'chopping abuse'), the Toyama is more up my alley with slightly bigger size and higher weight. I shall get a Moritaka 180 AS in about a month if everything goes well - I do not really need it, but a friend wil be going directly to Moritaka, so he will pick up one for me.
> 
> I am still getting to know the Toyama, but I like it a lot. Very even grind (no low spots). After some experimenting I am getting a great finish on the cladding with a fine rust eraser from JKI - I can easily blend it with stone finish (up to Uchigumori) closer to the cutting edge.
> 
> ...




The Ikeda Suminagashi Blue #1 looks really really thin behind the edge: http://bernal-cutlery.shoplightspee...uminigashi-180mm-nakiri-aogami-1-7534816.html
Did it look different in person? That seems like it may be too brittle.


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## alterwisser (Apr 10, 2017)

V1P said:


> Thanks, Matus. I agree with your opinion, I just wonder which one I would like more without buying both.
> 
> I like my knives tall, hefty and thin edge. For the kochi, weight is around 180g, i wonder if the Watanabe is heavier. I guess the heavier one will get picked [emoji16].



The Kochi.... I would go for the regular one, not the stainless clad. The stainless is a little thicker (at least the Gyuto is).

Ask Shinichi about the weight, he'll tell you. I think the Watanabe pro Nakiri is by far the most beloved Nakiri in this forum. I'd even go as far as saying that you won't find another knife type where so many people pick the same knife as their favorite .... especially not among Gyutos.


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## Matus (Apr 10, 2017)

alterwisser said:


> The Kochi.... I would go for the regular one, not the stainless clad. The stainless is a little thicker (at least the Gyuto is).
> 
> Ask Shinichi about the weight, he'll tell you. I think the Watanabe pro Nakiri is by far the most beloved Nakiri in this forum. I'd even go as far as saying that you won't find another knife type where so many people pick the same knife as their favorite .... especially not among Gyutos.



I did ask that question recently - here is the answer from Shinichi:



Kurouchi Nakkiri knife, 165mm blade

Total length: 305mm
Width: 52mm
Taper spine 4.5 - 1.6mm
weight:175g 

Kurouchi Nakkiri knife, 180mm blade

Total length: 315mm
Width: 56mm
Taper spine 4.5 - 1.6mm
Weight: 200g


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## V1P (Apr 10, 2017)

Hmm...i like the heft from 200g. I believe that Kochi is a cutter as well, it's just that no one has tried one and tell the tale.


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## fatboylim (Apr 10, 2017)

Nakiri are push cutting machines. For this reason I prefer heavier workhorse style Nakiri that can take power through the edge (e.g. Watanabe, Toyama or Kato). Thinner lazer type nakiri are fun too, heavier workhorse is just more my thing. 

My personal favourite Nakiri is a Toyama 210 although 180 is more popular and more nimble.


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## jbart65 (Apr 10, 2017)

I asked about 180mm stainless clad nakiris in another thread from a few days ago. No one seems to know much about the Kochi. Or the Kurosaki AS stainless clad that I am looking at. I plan to pick up both the Kochi and Kurosaki and perhaps even the Watanabe Pro SS clad. See which I like best and sell the other(s).

Right now I own a Yuki 165. Best of the nearly dozen 165mm nakiris I have tried. Only a somewhat larger Fujiwara performed better. 

The Yuki sharpens easier than any of my knives and is a fantastic chopper. It will microchip on some ingredients such as sweet potatoes if you aren't very careful, but it doesn't hurt performance much and the chips come out easily. Being so tall for a 165 - mine is 59mm high - means it can be sharpened for years with no loss of performance.

Only thing I wish for is greater length. Hence my new search. I almost bought a Kurosaki AS kurouchi 165mm instead of the Yuki. A little shorter but a bit more authority in cutting. I suspect the longer and taller 180 will be much more to my liking. Kurosaki also makes thinner 180mm nakiris in R2 and VG10. Both are lookers, too.

Based on the specs, the Kuro R2 180mm is the lightest at around 170 grams. Kuro VG10 180mm is 180 grams. Kuro AS 180mm is 185 grams. Kochi Kurouchi 180mm is 190 grams. Kochi Stainless clad kurouchi 180mm is 191 grams. And the Watanabe is around 200 grams.


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## valgard (Apr 10, 2017)

Matus said:


> I did ask that question recently - here is the answer from Shinichi:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would only add that My Watanabe 180mm is noticeably taller than that at 62mm, 56mm is what he has on the website but mine is definitely taller. Don't have the weight though.


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## lumo (Apr 10, 2017)

Just starting to play with nakiri myself I'm but really enjoying the toyama...the kato is great as well just wish it was a little taller. Obviously I also prefer weight and height and still getting used to a different cutting style. 
In order of preference...

Toyama 210
288 g
64.5 mm tall
4.3 - 2.3 taper

Kato ku 180
229 g
53.25 mm tall
6.1 - 1.7 taper

Shigefusa ku 165
186 g
52.75 mm tall
7.5 - 1.4 mm taper 

Shigefusa ku 180
218 g
52.5 mm tall
6.9 - 1.5 taper


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## jbart65 (Apr 10, 2017)

Lumo, is the Toyama weight perfectly fine for you? Personally, I prefer my knives to weigh no more than 215 grams, though I have a few outstanding performers that are somewhat heavier.

I am leaning toward SS clad. The idea of frequently wiping down a very tall, 180mm nakiri just seems ... daunting.


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## Eitan78 (Apr 10, 2017)

Matus said:


> I have to admit I would love to hear more on Shigefusa KU nakiris as I have read a rather conflicting opinions on these. In general my impression is that it is a bit too thick/heavy - 165 is supposed to weight close to 200g.
> 
> V1P - Even without trying the Kochi nakiris I am 95% sure that these will fall through the food without noticing it. That is what the 180 Kochi santoku does. Your best option to findout more is probably just asking Jon.



The shigefusa nakiri is 186g, have it now a little longer than 3 weeks ,so far I love everything about it, super fine edge and amazing finish, that is if you like the rustic look of kurouchi.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 10, 2017)

I've been using a Shigefusa 180 for a number of years. It is a lot heavier than most nakiri of that size so it is my go to knife when I need that extra weight.


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## lumo (Apr 10, 2017)

jbart65 said:


> Lumo, is the Toyama weight perfectly fine for you? Personally, I prefer my knives to weigh no more than 215 grams, though I have a few outstanding performers that are somewhat heavier.
> 
> I am leaning toward SS clad. The idea of frequently wiping down a very tall, 180mm nakiri just seems ... daunting.



Nope, my toyama is definitely a keeper. The weight doesn't bother me at all, especially considering the height and length, it all works for me...but again if the kato was a little taller...!
I hear you on the ss clad, especially on a busy line. There's a Harner on the BST. I have no experience with them but I hear good things.


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## richard (Apr 11, 2017)

A bit of a tangent but still somewhat related...is there significant difference between a bunka and a nakiri other than the bunka having a tip? I.e. Can the nakiri do something significantly better than a bunka can?


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## XooMG (Apr 11, 2017)

richard said:


> A bit of a tangent but still somewhat related...is there significant difference between a bunka and a nakiri other than the bunka having a tip? I.e. Can the nakiri do something significantly better than a bunka can?


Depends on the knife. If a bunkabocho has the same basic dimensions as a nakiri (not necessarily so), it loses a bit of tip weight and the tip will be more exposed and fragile. If you are resourceful, you can figure out cutting techniques that take advantage of the shapes. Pick the shapes that suit you, and don't think there is orthodoxy to it.


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## Matus (Apr 11, 2017)

Bunka will have different edge profile than a nakiri and more belly towards the tip.


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## zetieum (Apr 11, 2017)

In my eyes, there are two schools for Nakiri from the ones I sampled: the heavy convex one (toyoma, watanabe, ...), and super thin ones (wakui, kurosaki/masakage). The in between (like TF) brings nothing to my eye. 
I would advocate for the thin ones, especially compared to the other recommandations that have been made on this thread. Because one uses always a nakiri with a up down movement because of the shape (i.e. I mean no rocking and no lateral pressure on the blade), and because it is going to be used only on vegetables, it is for me the blade that should be super thin from the edge to at least 1cm above. You will get some weight because of the height: nothing to worry. you can get a convex and food release properties for far above the cutting edge: there is plenty of room on the blade to make that. 
Moreover, because it is straight and short, it is a blade that very easy to maintain extremely thin. 
Naturaly, this is my 0.02$.


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## V1P (Apr 11, 2017)

Zetieum: I agree with your reasoning completely!


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## fatboylim (Apr 11, 2017)

This could quickly turn into a laser vs workhorse debate... Both are good for different reasons...


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## daddy yo yo (Apr 11, 2017)

Here's my 2 nakiri knives:


daddy yo yo said:


> Handle is an upgraded handle (ho & horn), left knife is Watanabe 180mm Nakiri from his Pro line. KU Shig (right knife) is 165mm and speaks for itself...
> 
> Shigefusa KU Nakiri:
> 162mm
> ...


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## zetieum (Apr 11, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> This could quickly turn into a laser vs workhorse debate... Both are good for different reasons...



Indeed. But I think because NAkiri have a particular shape and a specific use, this debate could be very relevant here. Moreover, for Nakiri what matter is not the spine region, it is only the bottom up to 1/3, because those blades a very high. So it is not "laser" but thin being thin behind and above the edge that matters. 
I am not a guy that swear only on lasers. Actually, I own only one laser. But, concerning nakiri, I am all the way for the thinner the better.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Apr 11, 2017)

@zetieum this would make a case for zero grinding at the shinogi angle, then putting a microbevel....


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## Matus (Apr 11, 2017)

I would only add that my Toyama 180 nakiri has thickness of the blade ca 1mm @ 10 mm behind the edge. That is on the thin side IMO. One should also not forget that edge of the nakiri is rather heavily used because it is used primarily for chopping, so very thinly ground knives will need a mini/micro bevel to give the edge certain toughness. I actually managed to sharpen my Toyama too thin at the edge.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 11, 2017)

To each his own, but i favor Watanabe-heavier nakiris. I have two 180mm Itinomonn nakiris that show this: one kasumi, one kurouchi. The former is lighter, the latter heavier. The lighter one (kasumi) feels too nimble for me and the heavier feels better in the sense that it offers enough momentum when push cutting.
As for favorites, Watanabe, Shigefusa kurouchi and Teruyasu Denka.


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## Matus (Apr 11, 2017)

I am in the same camp as Marcelo - I have a Kanehiro 165 stainless clad AS (150g) on loan from a friend but felt like I wanted a heavier & bigger one. Toyama 180 with just under 200g fits me like a glove


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## jbart65 (Apr 11, 2017)

Neither light or heavy is what I want. 

I want a nakiri with a thin but not fragile edge as well as some heft to let the knife do a lot of the work. Yet I dont want it so heavy that it deters from frequent and rapid chopping. I staccato chop with a nakiri with a barely perceptible push motion.

I find my sweet spot with gyutos to be between 6.5 and 7.5 oz. With 165mm nakiris its less. Around 6.3 to 6.5 oz.

I figure I want a 180 to weigh about 6.8 oz. The Watanabe is at the high end of my range. Ill try a Kochi and Kurosaki, and if I am not satisfied, a Watanabe.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 11, 2017)

I would add a Denka nakiri (wa version): lighter than Watanabe, but still heavy enough (or balanced right, not sure) to take more advantage of its weight on push cuts. Never weighed those nakiris, that's only based on my feeling when those are being used.


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## trvn (Apr 16, 2017)

I got a Munetoshi 180mm nakiri last week and I really like it. 55mm tall and gets quite thin behind the edge. Needed some work on the stones to smooth out the edge, but it's so easy to sharpen that it's not a problem at all

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/311w3jcik4767c3/AADiKmQJbDiIRpeqo6oNaG3Ga?dl=0


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## fatboylim (Apr 16, 2017)

trvn said:


> I got a Munetoshi 180mm nakiri last week and I really like it. 55mm tall and gets quite thin behind the edge. Needed some work on the stones to smooth out the edge, but it's so easy to sharpen that it's not a problem at all
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/311w3jcik4767c3/AADiKmQJbDiIRpeqo6oNaG3Ga?dl=0



I wish munetoshi made a tall 180 bunka, that would be fun!


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## Matus (Apr 16, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> I wish munetoshi made a tall 180 bunka, that would be fun!



Than you need to try to find that Itinomonn 190 bunka Maxim had in the past. It is with very high probability from the same maker.


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## brianh (Apr 16, 2017)

Lerrrrrve my all carbon Kochi 180mm nakiri. Replaced a Watanabe.


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## mc2442 (Apr 16, 2017)

V1P said:


> We all know that Watanabe nakiri is great, but can anyone gives an insight on 180mm Kochi stainless clad nakiri?
> 
> I have researched the whole forum but no good reviews to be found.



I have a Kochi stainless clad nakiri and love it. It is my only nakiri so I don't have anything to compare it to. It has a bit more heft than a similar gyuto, but is extremely thin behind the edge and falls thru anything you are cutting. Not sure how it compares to the others mentioned here, but I highly doubt anyone would be disappointed in their purchase of it.


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## V1P (Apr 16, 2017)

Finally, someone with a Kochi nakiri! Thank you for the input, you just made my decision harder, [emoji23].


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## brianh (Apr 16, 2017)

V1P said:


> Finally, someone with a Kochi nakiri! Thank you for the input, you just made my decision harder, [emoji23].



It's hard to remember the Watanabe so much now, but I want to say the Kochi is heavier. Definitely thinner behind the edge. I make a decent amount of paper thin onion preps (pickled onions, fried onion frizzles,) and this does the job effortlessly.


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## JayGee (Apr 17, 2017)

I have a masamoto KK (Kurouchi) which I love - don't need to baby it at all - slightly less finesse but incredibly practical (even though all carbon).


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## V1P (Apr 17, 2017)

brianh said:


> It's hard to remember the Watanabe so much now, but I want to say the Kochi is heavier. Definitely thinner behind the edge. I make a decent amount of paper thin onion preps (pickled onions, fried onion frizzles,) and this does the job effortlessly.



I think as a cutter, there is no wrong choice between the two, it all comes down to preference. Hmm.. I think I may have a solution to this.


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## jbart65 (Apr 17, 2017)

The Kochi and Watanabe are listed at similar weights, around 190 grams. I intend to buy a Kochi once I finish a few passarounds.

At some point I want to try a Watanabe. The asymetric grind might be an issue for me as a lefty. Most with such grinds don't affect my cutting but a few steer on me unless I adjust how I cut.

Haven't seen much comment to that effect regarding the Watanabe, though. Nor I have I found sharpening such knives 50-50 to be a problem.


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## Panamapeet (Apr 17, 2017)

I have the Itinomonn kasumi nakiri and I absolutely love it


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## Troy G (Apr 19, 2017)

I just got a toyama-noborikoi nakiri and sure like it but I have no frame of reference as I have not owned any others. Was going to go with a Watanabe or Toyama.


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## jbart65 (Apr 19, 2017)

How reactive is the Toyama? Is it a180mm, and if so, how weighty does it feel?


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## fatboylim (Apr 19, 2017)

jbart65 said:


> How reactive is the Toyama? Is it a180mm, and if so, how weighty does it feel?



I have the 210 Nakiri and it is like most carbons: 3 weeks in a pro kitchen or 3 months home use and the natural patina takes over.


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## Troy G (Apr 19, 2017)

How reactive- I did some veg, chicken, potato, and onion,slight patina forming. Did not taint any of the food or my cooking is not so good.*


180mm- with a pinch grip it only feels slightly front heavy which I really like.


Caveat- I am not a knife whore nor am I an experienced chef so my opinions are very subjective. I have owned Masakage Koishi knives and a Kato workhorse as my references.*


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## Troy G (Apr 19, 2017)

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## jbart65 (Apr 19, 2017)

Seems quite manageable. Might have to consider the Toyama given all the good things I hear. I assume the grind is 50-50.


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## Matus (Apr 19, 2017)

The grind is slightly asymmetrical on the Toyama.


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## fatboylim (May 5, 2017)

lumo said:


> Just starting to play with nakiri myself I'm but really enjoying the toyama...the kato is great as well just wish it was a little taller. Obviously I also prefer weight and height and still getting used to a different cutting style.
> In order of preference...
> 
> Toyama 210
> ...



Say Lumo, how is the Toyama 210 comparing to the Kato 180 after some use? Hoping to compare notes in the future!


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## Customfan (May 5, 2017)

Shigefusa Nakiri 165mm Kitaeji blade.. its the best one i´ve found...


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