# Coffee gear and discussion thread



## Craig

This isn't terribly new for me, but here's my coffee gear.

Grinder (Hario ceramic burr grinder):







Maker (Bodum vacuum): 






Next step is a roaster, I suppose. One of these days.


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## Jim

I love my Vac pot!
You really must start to roast your own, nothing like it!


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## Pensacola Tiger

Craig said:


> You have a roaster you recommend? I've seen some that aren't practical for me, my counters are just too cluttered as it is.


 
The Behmor roaster is the size of a large toaster oven, and is the best home roaster available, in my experience.


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## Craig

Pensacola Tiger said:


> The Behmor roaster is the size of a large toaster oven, and is the best home roaster available, in my experience.


 
Yeah, I want something smaller than that.

Well, I really just want a bigger kitchen with one of those in it. But you know.


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## Jim

Roasting in a kitchen without a serious range hood can be very smokey


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## Kyle

We really need a coffee/gear thread. I'm not a huge coffee nerd, but I certainly appreciate a good cup of coffee. I can still stomach some office Folgers, so I'm not quite to snobbery levels yet. Right now I'm just buying bulk coffee and coarse grinding at the store and then brewing in a French press. 

I know, I need a grinder but I haven't been ready to plunk down the money. I'll probably go with a manual burr grinder, I don't have the budget for a good automatic. Plus I usually only make coffee on the weekends, so the extra effort doesn't bother me.

I've also been thinking of replacing the French press, it's just a cheapy I bought for $10 at Bed Bath & Beyond. I've heard really good things about the AeroPress but I don't know much else about it. Maybe I'll look into the vacuum pot that Craig posted. Is there anything else I should look into? One of the things that draws me to the AeroPress is I've heard it's good for brewing ahead of time and then serving as iced coffee later, which I do like to drink during the summer, but I don't know much about that.


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## Pensacola Tiger

Think of the AeroPress as a one-cup French press with a really good filter. No sediment at all. 

For iced coffee, I'd look into cold-brewing. 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006H0JVW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## WildBoar

eBay is good for finding a smaller commercial-grade burr grinder at a substantial discount from new. Depending on your local, CraigsList can be pretty good as well. Always lots of small shops going out of business or owners retiring.


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## so_sleepy

The Aeropress makes coffee concentrate, I use it to make iced coffee drinks. I use a Chemex for my drip coffee and prefer the results.


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## Andrew H

so_sleepy said:


> I use a Chemex for my drip coffee and prefer the results.


IMHO chemex is the only way to go for drip. I've never tried roasting my own - mainly because I've been spoiled with intelligentsia coffee. Family friend works there, he gets to travel to all of their farms and "check" on the beans, lucky bastard.


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## Lars

The Aeropress is very versatile - I just had a very nice cup of light roasted Kieni from Kenya.

Here is the recipe(the Aeropress is used upside down):
17g of coffee ground just a little coarser than a traditional filter brew.
200g of water @ 95 celsius.
30 sec steep time, turn it over and press.
Turned out a very clean, well balanced cup of coffee.

For espresso and milk based drinks I use a Dalla Corte mini and a Ditting KE640 grinder.


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## rahimlee54

Is there something I can look for at a store that tells me if they brew good coffee. I have never been a fan of coffee as of yet, but I want to give it a good try before I write it off completely. So any suggestions as to what to look for and try would be helpful.

Thanks
Jared


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## Lars

rahimlee54 said:


> Is there something I can look for at a store that tells me if they brew good coffee.


 
Look for a place that serves black coffee brewed to order. No pour over machine allowed..

Good coffee should taste great, with lots of flavours and not be served too hot.

Espresso can be great but is kind of an acquired taste.

Milk based drinks are more like cocktails, they taste great, but you don't taste the coffee so much..


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## StephanFowler

there's a place local here that only serves french press, you order a coffee and press it yourself at the table.


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## so_sleepy

rahimlee54 said:


> Is there something I can look for at a store that tells me if they brew good coffee.



Ask if they roast their own coffee or get it from a local roaster. Coffee is getting past its prime about a week after roasting. If the menu has a selection of single-origin coffees, it is an indication they take it more seriously (or take themselves too seriously). 

That said, coffee has a variety of flavors based on origin and the roast. I like coffee a lot, but that doesn't mean i automatically enjoy every product no matter how exotic or expensive.


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## Craig

StephanFowler said:


> there's a place local here that only serves french press, you order a coffee and press it yourself at the table.



I'm not sure I like that setup, though it's obviously better than most places. Do they pour the water for you? If so, do they do it at the table? I would worry that they pour the water then let it sit for an unknown amount of time before it gets to you, so you don't know how long to steep for. For similar reasons, I'm not much of a fan of French Press' in general. I prefer to have my coffee and tea removed from the liquid entirely. 



so_sleepy said:


> Ask if they roast their own coffee or get it from a local roaster. Coffee is getting past its prime about a week after roasting. If the menu has a selection of single-origin coffees, it is an indication they take it more seriously (or take themselves too seriously).
> 
> That said, coffee has a variety of flavors based on origin and the roast. I like coffee a lot, but that doesn't mean i automatically enjoy every product no matter how exotic or expensive.


 
When people who really don't know coffee ask me that question, I usually just tell them to look for a place with the illy sign in the window and to ask for an Americano instead of just a coffee. The above steps only make sense for people who are already into decent coffee, imo.


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## l r harner

so_sleepy said:


> The Aeropress makes coffee concentrate, I use it to make iced coffee drinks. I use a Chemex for my drip coffee and prefer the results.


 
funny i thought it jsut made a nice strong cup 
i use 2 scoops of grounds fill the press to the top swish the mix let settle out and then press i do top off the cup cause its not all the way full 
love the cup of coffee it makes (tho no one lieks to drink coffee like this at the house sept for me )


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## StephanFowler

Craig said:


> I'm not sure I like that setup, though it's obviously better than most places. Do they pour the water for you? If so, do they do it at the table? I would worry that they pour the water then let it sit for an unknown amount of time before it gets to you, so you don't know how long to steep for. For similar reasons, I'm not much of a fan of French Press' in general. I prefer to have my coffee and tea removed from the liquid entirely.


 
They roast their own beans daily, and they pour each order immediately when you ask for it and your handed your mug and the french press to go to your table..




http://www.drinkcoffeedogood.com/ <--- this place


it's funny because the building their in used to be a luthier's shop that my dad would take his '64 Martin to for tune up work, they had a beautiful assortment of very very nice guitars. I'd been going there since I was a young teenager. so it's a weird memory lane type thing for me to go there.


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## so_sleepy

l r harner said:


> funny i thought it jsut made a nice strong cup
> i use 2 scoops of grounds fill the press to the top swish the mix let settle out and then press i do top off the cup cause its not all the way full
> love the cup of coffee it makes (tho no one lieks to drink coffee like this at the house sept for me )


 
yep, that is exactly how to do it. two scoops should be right for around 10 ounces of coffee once you top it off. It's just right for a good sized mug of coffee. Sweet Maria's directions are better than the manufacturer:
http://www.sweetmarias.com/aeropress/aeropress_instructions.php


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## Craig

StephanFowler said:


> They roast their own beans daily, and they pour each order immediately when you ask for it and your handed your mug and the french press to go to your table..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.drinkcoffeedogood.com/ <--- this place
> 
> 
> it's funny because the building their in used to be a luthier's shop that my dad would take his '64 Martin to for tune up work, they had a beautiful assortment of very very nice guitars. I'd been going there since I was a young teenager. so it's a weird memory lane type thing for me to go there.


 
Oh, that's fine then. I've been some places where you order from the table and they eventually bring you a press, which annoys me.


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## obtuse

My favorite brew methods include the Bonmac no.2 single hole dripper, the Hario V60 no.2 dripper and the Aeropress. For the drippers I use a grind between filter and espresso, medium fine. I use about 22-26 grams of coffee per 10oz cup; I like the added strength and body. I use a Hario Bueno kettle and ride the bloom for a 3:30-4:30 minute pour; cooler water temperature is key for this, 190°F to 180°F. I can't stand the taste of astringent or overly bitter coffee. I'm still playing with the Aeropress, but I usually use the inverted method and let it steep for 2-3 minutes&#8212;I also can't stand the taste of overdosed, underextracted coffee. I'm getting ride of my Chemex because the Hario V60 has a design I like better. I seldom use a french press, but when I do I use a 6 min steep time and insulate my press. Going to finally order my Behmor today! Cheers


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## wenus2

I haven't hardly touched my Aeropress since I picked up a Clever Coffee dripper about a year ago. I only use it on the go with a hand grinder or on lazy days where I don't feel up to washing the vac pot, otherwise I use a Yama TCA-5 vacuum brewer about 90% of the time. I don't feel like anything else touches that brewing method for a straight cup, but it can be a PITA some days.

Cold brew is great, whoever said they wanted iced coffee. I love cold brew all summer, it's actually one of the few things I'll splash an inch of milk into. You can brew it up thick like tar  Ice dripped is also fantastic stuff, a whole different experience in coffee. The equipment is kinda spendy, but if you ever happen in a place that offers it, don't pass it by.

Congrats on the Behmor Obtuse, don't forget to download the "behmorthing." It goes a long way to helping keep track of what/how you are roasting.


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## SpikeC

I start my day with an americano from my La Pavoni Strativari. I souped up a Kitchenaid Proline grinder with Mazzer Mini burrs, and it does a very nice job of grinding.
When I need to make a pot for some reason I use a Technivorm Mocca Master. It is a very simple machine and does a great job of temperature control of the water.
I get my beans from Stumptown Roasters, they roast the beans a mile from my house and date the bags with the roasting date, so you know how fresh it is and whether you need to let it rest before brewing.


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## obtuse

One day I want to add a syphon to my brew lineup! wensus2, what do you use for cold brewing? I have not tried a cold brewed coffee. I remember working for a place that sold the Toddy.


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## Jim

*



*




*Fun with COFFEE*


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## Rotary

Jim,

Do you like your Technivorm? I've been toying with the idea of getting one for my wife, who's a total coffee nut.


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## Jim

Rotary said:


> Jim,
> 
> Do you like your Technivorm? I've been toying with the idea of getting one for my wife, who's a total coffee nut.


 
I never regreted buying it. Works well.


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## Eamon Burke

I grind my beans with a cheap grinder, and a mortar and pestal before that. I put the ground up beans in a saucepan of 200F water, let it sit, stir it, let it sit, and strain it into a cup.


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## obtuse

johndoughy said:


> I grind my beans with a cheap grinder, and a mortar and pestal before that. I put the ground up beans in a saucepan of 200F water, let it sit, stir it, let it sit, and strain it into a cup.


 
I played around with a version of that. Total immersion brewing in a vacuum carafe, for 3-4 minutes, then poured through a chemex filter. I found it takes as much tweaking as any other brew method. I prefer pouring water out of a fancy kettle.


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## SpikeC

The Appaloosa horse club used to do a version of that on the annual trail ride, butt they put the coffee in a pair of panty hose and the water was 212º!


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## Eamon Burke

SpikeC said:


> The Appaloosa horse club used to do a version of that on the annual trail ride, butt they put the coffee in a pair of panty hose and the water was 212º!


 
Funny comparison, this forum keeps making me feel like I am some kind of range-loving cowpoke. 

I just don't like specialized equipment! I wouldn't even keep pantyhose around just to filter coffee.

In my experience, there is very little difference between a pot of hot water with powder in it and any other method(aside from espresso, of course!), with the exception of a bit of ground up beans in the bottom of the cup, which I love. I mean, they soak up so much of the bourbon flavor, why not drink them too?:rofl:


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## SpikeC

I just got back from an introductory coffee roasting class. Brought home a pound of Ethiopian green beans to play with!


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## obtuse

Ooooh What kind? Where did you take the class?


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## SpikeC

I think they are peaberry. The class was at a small roaster in NE Portland, AJ Java. She is a big proponent of direct trade coffee, which is what I have been buying of late.


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## JohnnyChance

I use an electric grinder, Capresso, that has a good range of grind size and conical burrs. Hario Buono kettle and a Chemex. I get my beans from a local place that roasts their own. I use about 28 grams of coffee for 500 grams of water. Weigh the beans, grind, put Chemex on scale, add about 30-40 grams of water to bloom for 45 seconds to a minute. I use Brown Coffee Company's "Island" method for brewing in the Chemex. I use the bleached Chemex filters. Orginally I just used unbleached, but then got a box of the bleached and you really can taste the difference. They have great beans as well if you are into the mail order thing or are local to San Antonio.

http://www.browncoffeeco.com/

[video=youtube;8h-0ewcbHko]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h-0ewcbHko[/video]


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## obtuse

There's a place here that uses brown coffee. I like their cottonwood espresso.


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## Tristan

Oh good! A coffee thread! My newfound hobby - which has unfortunately sucked up some money for knives. More marginal utility from $$ in coffee now though.

I do 3 Lattes each morning for the girlfriend, colleague and myself - just to practice latte art.

Using an expobar dual leva E61 machine, and got a baratza vario grinder - quite happy with it for anyone who is thinking of getting a small footprint burr grinter. 

Just purchased a gene cafe as well (I saw one a few posts back), and some bags of greens have arrived. More fun for the weekend. 

Pictures to follow


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## Kyle

OK, so it's getting warm and I'm craving a hot cup of coffee less and less and can't afford a knife addiction and a $4/day Starbucks habit either. Last summer I simply brewed hot coffee at night, let it get to room temp and then pour into a caraffe and put it in the fridge overnight and serve iced the next morning. It was OK at best, but I don't know if that's simply an imperfect method or if it can be poorly brewed (I just used an auto drip machine) or crummy beans. I want to be able to make a decent iced coffee.

Right now I think my two options are a cold brew system 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006H0JVW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Or the Aeropress. My understanding is I can make concentrate with the Aeropress and that it refrigerates well. I know I asked a similar question a while ago in this thread, but at the time I was leaning towards something that could do it all. Now I'm looking to get something specifically for making iced coffee. Are either of these two good bets or is there something better I don't know about. 

I am planning on buying my own grinder, either a manual grinder or maybe a Capresso Infinity but probably won't pay anymore than what that will cost on a grinder.


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## swarfrat




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## wenus2

The Toddy makes very good iced coffee, better than the aeropress, and the real plus is that with the toddy you only have to make a batch about once a week and that will yield a good volume of coffee, the aeropress is something you would have to make a single serve of everyday/night and chill it. Either way you make it, it should be cut with ~%50 water (to taste).
The advantage to the aeropress is that it will also function to make hot coffe as well, where the Toddy brewer is a specialty device and only serves that one function.

For a grinder I always give two thumbs up to Baratza refurbs, they are one of those products that really are better than new. They go over all of their returned products with a fine tooth comb to be sure they never come back. I've purchased several as gifts and they are all running strong. IMHO the Baratza Maestro Plus blows the Infinity away.
http://www.baratza.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=385R

Personall my favorite summer coffee style is prepared ice dripped, but unfortunately the device to brew this unctuous goodness comes at a steep price. One of these days though, one of these days


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## Tristan

My Grinder - a malkonig vario. Been extremely happy with it so far. Very tweakable





This is what makes me happy most mornings. Expobar dual leva (Expobar brewtus II in the USA). Great consistent performer





Just arrived... gonna play with it this weekend. A genecafe roaster


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## Tristan

All these just arrived too... can't wait to see how it tastes!!


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## Tristan

The first decent looking rosetta I managed after struggling with the new hobby



 Got another one out the next morning...



 And my favorite one to date. Its been about 6 weeks of pouring 2 cups a day so far...


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## Lefty

Wow! I thought I was a coffee junkie!
I like you guys more and more every day!!!
For iced coffee, make French press coffee and freeze it in an ice cube tray. Make your preferred coffee, let it cool for about an hour, add coffee cubes, and serve!
It doesn't get watered down this way. It's a little trick I came up with back in University


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## mano

Very nice Tristan!


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## Lefty

Oh, one more thing.
Heaven will serve french vanilla ice cream with strong, black delta espresso poured over top for dessert ANY time you want it!
It's so simple, but is quite honestly, my favorite dessert!


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## WildBoar

Nice, Tristan! I can't pour rosettas to save my life; it looks like you are getting close to mastering the art! I really wanted to go with a Brewtus, but instead had to pick one my wife can use with the push of a button. It's pretty versitile though, so I can play w/ boiler temps and run in semi-auto mode. And one day I will restore the trashed La Pavoni lever I picked up 2 years ago, and learn how to survive in full manual mode :rolleyes2:

Please post as you play with the home roasting!


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## Vertigo

My ex was one hell of a barista, real world class. Used to go to the expos and competitions. Despite all our differences and the other crap that split us up, I sure miss her insisting on making my mochas every morning (and the wacky designs she'd put in the foam).


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## EdipisReks

i'm perfectly happy with decent beans ground in my cheap bodum grinder and brewed in a french press. i have friends who are nuts about coffee, and roast their own, and have similar neat-o stuff, and i totally get it, but i reserve my heated liquid obsession time and money for green tea.


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## apicius9

I just had to laugh a few days ago when I read in a book something like 'green tea is really nice if you like grassy-tasting water, and if you add honey, it becomes almost drinkable'  Love to see the coffee setups. I'm getting really embarrassed about still not having had my machine repaired. This will be one of the summer projects. I have a Quick Mill Anita that doesn't heat up, no repair service out on the island, and I am just not a tech guy... I also tried roasting with a smaller IRoast II before the Anita died. Had mixed success, it definitely has a learning curve. What makes it difficult is that more and more places don't ship green beans to Hawaii - it's illegal to do so in order to protect the Hawaiian growers from imported pests (or better, protect the local growers from losing business...). 

Stefan


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## EdipisReks

like in any other acquired taste something that at first blush should be a negative, the grassy astringency in some of the teas in this case, is what makes it so good.


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## Tristan

WildBoar said:


> Nice, Tristan! I can't pour rosettas to save my life; it looks like you are getting close to mastering the art! I really wanted to go with a Brewtus, but instead had to pick one my wife can use with the push of a button. It's pretty versitile though, so I can play w/ boiler temps and run in semi-auto mode. And one day I will restore the trashed La Pavoni lever I picked up 2 years ago, and learn how to survive in full manual mode :rolleyes2:
> 
> Please post as you play with the home roasting!



Thanks to you and Mano for the compliments. Its been rather tough, since i was learning from forums and occasional videos (reminds me of sharpening) and mostly managed to only get what looked like smashed spiders on the crema every morning. The epiphany happened one day. Now just picking up consistency.

Definitely will keep you guys updated as the roasting progresses.


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## Tristan

apicius9 said:


> Love to see the coffee setups. I'm getting really embarrassed about still not having had my machine repaired. This will be one of the summer projects. I have a Quick Mill Anita that doesn't heat up, no repair service out on the island, and I am just not a tech guy... I also tried roasting with a smaller IRoast II before the Anita died. Had mixed success, it definitely has a learning curve. What makes it difficult is that more and more places don't ship green beans to Hawaii - it's illegal to do so in order to protect the Hawaiian growers from imported pests (or better, protect the local growers from losing business...). Stefan


 
You ought to be embarassed. I shipped my Brewtus over from the UK, because they only sell superautomatic (saeco, krupps) machines and nespresso machines locally, and the one importer of high end espresso machines is charging $1K MORE for the machine than I paid for mine AFTER shipping the 50kg package over. You need to find more motivation Stefan :jumpy:

And you're in the land of the homegrown Kona Coffee... I have to ship my greens in from the US/UK. Seriously, don't make me go over there... :viking:


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## Lars

I am digging the geeky stuff in this thread.

Here is a - very bad - picture of my setup :thumbsup:


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## Tristan

Eh?? That looks like your kitchen. But given the ridiculous number of cups and the four frothing pitchers... (and two tampers, because... we each have two hands) it has got to be a place of work right? Either that or you're perpetually buzzy


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## Jim

Congratulations Tristan!


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## Lars

Tristan said:


> it has got to be a place of work right?


 
It's in my kitchen at home..


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## wenus2

oohhh, a Dalle Corte, very nice!
I had a coffee counter setup similar to this in my last place, it sure was convenient. 
I dont have the space anymore 
I had to get rid of my Astoria too, a larger place is on the horizon though, and perhaps a GS3 if I'm lucky 

And yes Tristan, we all need at least 2 tampers !


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## WildBoar

Hey, isn't one tamper for keeping the beans in the grinder feeder when you don't use the hopper, and the other actually for tamping??? Surely I am not the only one with that system :help4:


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## Silas

I've found that the one variable on great coffee is the Roaster!

In Baton Rouge, at the foot of Louisiana State University, is a coffee shop called Highland Coffee. They roast their own beans. 

Now they are online and an order from them will get me fresh roasted coffee (dated) in 2 days.

The thing I like about them is I like medium roast coffee: Kenya, Sumatra, Costa Rican, Ethiopian....and they do a MEDIUM roast. Not like the local CHARbucks. One CAN over-roast coffee and make it bitter.

No matter how good your coffee making equipment is, a fresher, correctly roasted bean is a mandatory first consideration.


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## Tristan

I hear you... hence I have my trusty Genecafe roaster ready and waiting for nice green beans. You can't blame charbucks, (although if you've ever had a cup from a place called the coffee bean and tea leaf... THEIR coffee bean is 2 steps down from charcoal) they buy crap coffee to it is better to over roast and let you have a charry cup than to reveal the 'origin' character of the crud they buy in bulk.

I'm very excited about the whole roasting process.

And I'm thrilled the guys here are absolute nutjob foodies as well as knifenuts.

Oh and Jim, if you're looking, thanks for your Spice Rub and BBQ Sauce (aka Goose Juice) recipe. That went over really well with about 30 people (and counting) that I know.


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## Tristan

Lars said:


> I am digging the geeky stuff in this thread.
> 
> Here is a - very bad - picture of my setup :thumbsup:



I hate you. 

I need a bigger home.

Seriously, when I'm gonna retire, I'm gonna sell everything here and buy myself a well planned huge home at puget sound and get the kitchen of my dreams. Pity I'll have no friends to cook for after moving...


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## Jim

Tristan said:


> I hear you... hence I have my trusty Genecafe roaster ready and waiting for nice green beans. You can't blame charbucks, (although if you've ever had a cup from a place called the coffee bean and tea leaf... THEIR coffee bean is 2 steps down from charcoal) they buy crap coffee to it is better to over roast and let you have a charry cup than to reveal the 'origin' character of the crud they buy in bulk.
> 
> I'm very excited about the whole roasting process.
> 
> And I'm thrilled the guys here are absolute nutjob foodies as well as knifenuts.
> 
> Oh and Jim, if you're looking, thanks for your Spice Rub and BBQ Sauce (aka Goose Juice) recipe. That went over really well with about 30 people (and counting) that I know.


 
You are most welcome!

I am looking forward to your adventures with the Gene' ....Do you know your line voltage at the outlet? The Gene' is pretty fussy with it.


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## Tristan

I'm in Singapore, and try as I might with the internet, I can't get a steady read on what the current output is supposed to be... I don't have those thingies (you can tell i'm REALLY mechanically/electrically inclined) that measure voltage output so I can't be sure.

From what I know, I should be getting between 230-240v here. So I have the 240V UK model, as opposed to the 230V Europe model, and I think the common literature on the Gene is that it will perform better if the voltage throughput stays consistently high.


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## Jim

Tristan said:


> I'm in Singapore, and try as I might with the internet, I can't get a steady read on what the current output is supposed to be... I don't have those thingies (you can tell i'm REALLY mechanically/electrically inclined) that measure voltage output so I can't be sure.
> 
> From what I know, I should be getting between 230-240v here. So I have the 240V UK model, as opposed to the 230V Europe model, and I think the common literature on the Gene is that it will perform better if the voltage throughput stays consistently high.


 
Yep, I have the US model which is woefully fussy with a 120v line. I use a VariAC to boost- With 240v you should have better results.


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## Tristan

The only issue I have is that in Singapore the ambient temperature is already 30deg celsius - so from the roasting charts I see from people, the time to roast will be reduced as the initial reactions will happen much faster. Hope it settles down ok.


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## Jim

Its a bit easier to roast when its warm out, just keep good notes on what you do.


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## apicius9

I feel like such a dunce. My Quickmill Anita has been sitting there for almost 2 years, and I didn't get my act together to have it repaired - that's just something I know nothing about and there doesn't seem to be a repair service on the island. So, last week an old German friend and her husband visited, and he happens to be an electronics engineer. In three minutes he had found the problem, bridged a switch with a fuse and the thing works again. The replacement part costs $10.50 :bashhead: if I think about all the crappy coffee I had in the meantime...

Now it's off to find some good coffee. Ken (are you here, Ken?) has recommended two local sources that sound interesting. Never made espresso from dark roasted peaberries before but he swears by it - and I love to buy local if I can. Of course, Kona or Ka'u coffees for $40 per pound are not my first choice for a cappuchino, but I will see what I find. I will als try to reactivate my IRoast if I find green beans for espresso on a neighbor island. I loved the Vivace dolce that I had flown in from the mainland, but I'll first look for local beans. F anybod happens to know anything in Hawaii....

Stefan


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## Tristan

If you're happy to roast greens you can get very well graded kona greens for less than half that - around $16/lb. You only need to add hot air and electricity and it'll transform in 15mins to $40/lb product. =D


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## Kyle

Well, it's not nearly as fancy as the rest of the stuff being discussed in this thread but I bought a Toddy cold brewer today. I had a $10 off coupon for World Market so I snatched one up. I'm just really excited to kick my $5/day summer iced coffee habit! If anyone has any tips or tricks for getting the most of the Toddy I'm all ears!


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## Kyle

Kyle said:


> Well, it's not nearly as fancy as the rest of the stuff being discussed in this thread but I bought a Toddy cold brewer today. I had a $10 off coupon for World Market so I snatched one up. I'm just really excited to kick my $5/day summer iced coffee habit! If anyone has any tips or tricks for getting the most of the Toddy I'm all ears!


 
I asked for tips last night before I even opened the box, but everything was so straight forward and easy. I'm drinking my first cup of iced coffee from it and it's really good. I wish I would have bought this sooner!


----------



## Lefty

I can't remember whether or not it was here, but I have mentioned this before...oh well...
Kyle, try freezing an ice cube tray full of strong Toddy coffee and use them in the iced coffee. Mmmm.
I work days and overnights, and one of the only things that makes me feel human during overnights is waking up at 4pm and having a cup of "two and a half tablespoons to about 400 ml of just before boiled water" coffee, on my deck in the sun. I bring my mug and French press out with me and wait for it to "brew" while waking up in the sun.
Man, I hope it's sunny this afternoon!


----------



## wenus2

apicius9 said:


> but I'll first look for local beans. F anybod happens to know anything in Hawaii....


 
http://rustyshawaiian.com/
http://www.smithfarms.com/coffee.asp

enjoy


----------



## geezr

apicius9 said:


> I feel like such a dunce. My Quickmill Anita has been sitting there for almost 2 years, and I didn't get my act together to have it repaired - that's just something I know nothing about and there doesn't seem to be a repair service on the island. So, last week an old German friend and her husband visited, and he happens to be an electronics engineer. In three minutes he had found the problem, bridged a switch with a fuse and the thing works again. The replacement part costs $10.50 :bashhead: if I think about all the crappy coffee I had in the meantime...
> 
> Now it's off to find some good coffee. Ken (are you here, Ken?) has recommended two local sources that sound interesting. Never made espresso from dark roasted peaberries before but he swears by it - and I love to buy local if I can. Of course, Kona or Ka'u coffees for $40 per pound are not my first choice for a cappuchino, but I will see what I find. I will als try to reactivate my IRoast if I find green beans for espresso on a neighbor island. I loved the Vivace dolce that I had flown in from the mainland, but I'll first look for local beans. F anybod happens to know anything in Hawaii....Stefan



Stefan - thanks for telling me about this great forum !!!!

Hope Anita is dialed in with temperature, grind, etc. = great espresso :coffeelots:


----------



## tychoseven

As a former coffee roaster and full-time coffee snob, I must agree with Craig's choice of brewer. A vacuum pot makes the cleanest cup of brewed coffee I've ever tasted. I used to rock a vintage 1940s Cory vacuum pot; the coffee touched only glass throughout the brewing process. Sadly the Cory took a tumble off the counter and I haven't yet been able to replace it.

If you want to have your tastebuds blown, check out George Howell at http://www.terroircoffee.com George and his roasters are the definition of obssesed, and they get the best Kenyans ever. Seriously, they're that good. I roast my own at home, but when I want a treat I swallow my pride and order a bag or two.


----------



## Terger

These are insanely good setups! My friends think I'm a coffee guy just because they see the Keurig on my counter. I'm looking into getting a French Press today...


----------



## SpikeC

My friendly neighborhood coffee roaster, Stumptown Coffee Roasters, has a single varietal espresso made with Ethiopian Duromina. It isn't the cheapest espresso beans around, butt boy howdy, what a nice cup it produces! 
I ran across a video by the Seattle Coffee folks about lungos. It is using double shot grounds to pull a 4 ounce shot. Some of the machines that they used produced bitter results, but some came out nice, so I tried it with my La Pavoni lever, and it made a really nice cup! 
This single bean espresso is very nice!


----------



## Kyle

A local shop started carrying Chemex and I wanted to get one but I'm hoping someone can convince me why it's so great. It basically just looks like a jar with a special filter. Maybe I don't know enough about coffee. Is their filter just that good? 

And what kind of grind does Chemex require? I haven't had the funds to get a decent grinder yet, so I'm hoping that I can get by with store bought ground beans for the time being until I finally get a good grinder.


----------



## cnochef

Very simple: French press and grinder for my dark Ethiopian locally-roasted beans, Bialetti s/s stovetop espresso pot for my weekend Cafe du Monde chicory coffee fix (1/2 coffee and 1/2 steamed milk, of course).

Oh, I almost forgot, I've also got a couple of those units that fit on top of the glass for brewing Vietnamese style coffee. In case you don't know what this is, it's espresso dripped slowly into a glass filled with ice and some condensed milk in the bottom. Greatest cold caffeine beverage ever during the Summer.


----------



## Pensacola Tiger

Kyle said:


> A local shop started carrying Chemex and I wanted to get one but I'm hoping someone can convince me why it's so great. It basically just looks like a jar with a special filter. Maybe I don't know enough about coffee. Is their filter just that good?
> 
> And what kind of grind does Chemex require? I haven't had the funds to get a decent grinder yet, so I'm hoping that I can get by with store bought ground beans for the time being until I finally get a good grinder.



I owned a Chemex and found that the filters were ridiculously expensive. The brewed coffee also cooled rapidly in the Chemex brewer. To top it off, it's awkward to clean.

An excellent alternative is a plastic filter cone that uses standard #4 filters, brewing into a standard thermos bottle.

http://www.sweetmarias.com/sweetmar...filtercone-6-size-with-thermos-extension.html

Regular drip grind works just fine.


----------



## littleroundman

My everyday machine:





A Ponte Vecchio Lusso

I alternate between having 1 or 2 a day from my



Clever Coffee Dripper and my



Bellina syphon


----------



## Hattorichop

http://www.coffeeforums.com/

JUST SAYIN...............:wink:


----------



## littleroundman

Hattorichop said:


> http://www.coffeeforums.com/
> 
> JUST SAYIN...............:wink:



Sorry, I'm a newbie here and didn't realize it's not _de riguer_ to have more than one interest.

I could have sworn the thread title was: *Thread: Coffee gear and discussion thread* :O:O

It won't happen again.


----------



## Hattorichop

No biggie, that's what the off topic section is for.

I was just tryin to point out that there is a forum for everything while tryin to be a little funny!


----------



## Lars

Kyle said:


> A local shop started carrying Chemex and I wanted to get one but I'm hoping someone can convince me why it's so great. It basically just looks like a jar with a special filter. Maybe I don't know enough about coffee. Is their filter just that good?
> 
> And what kind of grind does Chemex require? I haven't had the funds to get a decent grinder yet, so I'm hoping that I can get by with store bought ground beans for the time being until I finally get a good grinder.



I don't think the Chemex lives up to the hype it got a couple of years ago. 
It makes good coffee, but so does french press, Hario cones and the Aeropress cylinder.

My advise would be to get a good grinder first - freshly ground beans and and good quality water are my personal top priority's when brewing coffee..

Lars


----------



## obtuse

I gave my chemex away.... I just use a bonmac 1hole #2 filter cone or the hario 02.


----------



## SpikeC

My La Pavoni lever does all the coffee work around here unless there is a crowd. Kitchenaid Proline grinder with Mazzer Mini burrs and filtered Bull Run water round out the picture.


----------



## Kyle

Lars said:


> I don't think the Chemex lives up to the hype it got a couple of years ago.
> It makes good coffee, but so does french press, Hario cones and the Aeropress cylinder.
> 
> My advise would be to get a good grinder first - freshly ground beans and and good quality water are my personal top priority's when brewing coffee..
> 
> Lars



I have a press and I get beans ground for me at a local shop. I don't like the oily/slick mouth feel I get from it, also the grounds at the bottom are pretty gross. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, maybe I'm too used to office brewed drip coffee, I don't know, but it turns me off and makes me not want to use it any more. 

Advice?


----------



## geezr

Thought about replacing old Sylvia/Rocky combo then recalled a post on the coffee forums about turning-on the steam switch before pulling the shot. Been doing this since earlier this year - get consistent good shots and dry grounds puck. coffee seems better dissolved :coffeelots: 
Keeping Sylvia/Rocky :thumbsup:


----------



## Hank

I have been drinking snob coffee for the better part of 30 years and roasting my own for 10-12 years.

A couple of thoughts:

Here are some standard limits known as the rule of 15's

Coffee should be roasted within 15 months of leaving the processor in the country of origin.

Coffee should be ground within 15 days of roasting

Coffee should be brewed within 15 minutes of grinding

I have had coffee just about every way imaginable. My preference is a triple or quad shot Americano. with the coffee beans rested 5 days after roasting. With a real barista I will have a macchiato. Generally I don't make these for myself.

If I carry coffee with me when I travel I use an Aeropress and am quite satisfied with the product it produces. (I carry an electric tea kettle and a grinder). I really like the Areopress. It is the coffee maker I suggest as a first purchase for someone wishing to be a coffee snob. Much cleaner than a French Press but with the body provided by the French Press.

Water temps are really important. Brew temps should be between 200-204 degrees. If you make drip coffee run some water through it prior to brewing to bring the coffee maker up to temp.

Water Quality. Coffee is 97% water. The better the water, the better the coffee. When I don't carry coffee on the road, I ALWAYS use bottled water to make the coffee in the room. Not great, but it is drinkable.


----------



## Lars

Kyle said:


> I don't like the oily/slick mouth feel I get from it, also the grounds at the bottom are pretty gross.
> 
> Advice?



Well, it seems you are not a fan of the french press, so my advise would be to use something else..
If you are okay with brewing one cup at a time, the Hario could be great for you since you are used to drip coffee.

I still think you need a grinder as well..

Lars


----------



## WildBoar

littleroundman said:


> My everyday machine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Ponte Vecchio Lusso


Nice! I really wanted one of these, but bought a semi-auto instead so my wife could use it. And of course she doesn't, because the whole grinding and tamping thing is too complicated 



SpikeC said:


> My La Pavoni lever does all the coffee work around here unless there is a crowd.


I picked up a used one on CL to play with, but have not had the time/ motivation to rebuild it yet since the semi-auto works so well. I really need to get on this project over the winter!


----------



## Kyle

Lars said:


> Well, it seems you are not a fan of the french press, so my advise would be to use something else..
> If you are okay with brewing one cup at a time, the Hario could be great for you since you are used to drip coffee.
> 
> I still think you need a grinder as well..
> 
> Lars



Well that's good to know. People always told me to try a press, but I've never had coffee from a press that someone else had made. I wasn't sure if this was normal or if I had somehow screwed up a very simple brewing process.

I will definitely look into a new grinder. Thanks so much for the help.


----------



## obtuse

I'm roasting some coffee tonight. A pound of Sumatra Onan Ganjang cultivar, for a friend, a half pound of El Salvador La Divina Providencia and maybe another half pound of Costa Rica Cafetalera Herbazu for myself.


----------



## EdipisReks

Kyle said:


> I have a press and I get beans ground for me at a local shop. I don't like the oily/slick mouth feel I get from it, also the grounds at the bottom are pretty gross.



all of that stuff is feature, not bug! hmm, maybe an aeropress? i don't think you really need a new grinder. i've been using the same Bodum blade grinder for years. the secret is that i know that three table spoons of beans, then 15 pulses, plus a shake, then 7-8 more pulses, gets me the perfect grind. i would seriously try to like press coffee, though. you are missing out on a lot of flavor if you exclude much of the oil. i've used a bunch of methods, including Hario drip, and the simple press is still my favorite.


----------



## obtuse

EdipisReks said:


> all of that stuff is feature, not bug! hmm, maybe an aeropress?



if you only need to brew a cup at a time try a clever coffee dripper. if you have to brew a bunch on the clever you could do a 50% bypass brew or just use It like any other #4 cone. I gave up on the aeropress... not to say that you can't get good results with it, I just suck at it and I always end up with sediment in my cup


----------



## EdipisReks

as a Frech presser who is also a fan of cowboy coffee, i think a bit of sediment is a good thing.


----------



## obtuse

as far as sediment goes, you either love it or hate it or kinda tolerate it. I guess I would fall into the tolerate it category because I go enjoy a French press every now and again. I think I'll bust out the bodum tomorrow morning :thumbsup:


----------



## EdipisReks

you should!


----------



## Eaglewood

Kopi Luwak fresh ground in a French Press maker-- the best!!!!!!


----------



## littleroundman

obtuse said:


> if you only need to brew a cup at a time try a clever coffee dripper. if you have to brew a bunch on the clever you could do a 50% bypass brew or just use It like any other #4 cone. I gave up on the aeropress... not to say that you can't get good results with it, I just suck at it and I always end up with sediment in my cup



+1

The Lusso for espressos and a Clever mean I'm in coffee nirvana these days.


----------



## ColinCB

I still need to get a burr grinder, but right now I've got my Bodum Bean double-walled french press doing my coffee making. Along with a keurig mini for when I'm too lazy to do do all the work.


----------



## Kyle

EdipisReks said:


> all of that stuff is feature, not bug! hmm, maybe an aeropress? i don't think you really need a new grinder. i've been using the same Bodum blade grinder for years. the secret is that i know that three table spoons of beans, then 15 pulses, plus a shake, then 7-8 more pulses, gets me the perfect grind. i would seriously try to like press coffee, though. you are missing out on a lot of flavor if you exclude much of the oil. i've used a bunch of methods, including Hario drip, and the simple press is still my favorite.



The flavor is great, it's the feeling in my mouth that kind of bugs me. Maybe I'll bust out the press tonight and give it another shot.


----------



## JohnnyChance

Kyle said:


> The flavor is great, it's the feeling in my mouth that kind of bugs me. Maybe I'll bust out the press tonight and give it another shot.



You can also change your bean/water ratios, or switch up beans (something less oily) and get some different results out of your press.


----------



## Kyle

JohnnyChance said:


> You can also change your bean/water ratios, or switch up beans (something less oily) and get some different results out of your press.



Thanks for the tip, I'm actually getting anxious to start doing more testing with it. 

Now I just need to get a grinder. Is there a good grinder to be had for under $100? I always heard good things about the Capresso Infinity but then some coffee snob always chimes in to say that it's a POS and you can't get a good grinder for under $XXX and that's when I end up re-considering the whole thing...


----------



## Lars

Kyle said:


> I wasn't sure if this was normal or if I had somehow screwed up a very simple brewing process.



It's perfectly normal and there is nothing indicating that you screwed anything up.

In fact, I salute you for having an opinion about the coffee you drink - most people are happy as long as it's screaming hot and very bitter :thumbsup:

Lars


----------



## Lars

Kyle said:


> Is there a good grinder to be had for under $100? I always heard good things about the Capresso Infinity but then some coffee snob always chimes in to say that it's a POS and you can't get a good grinder for under $XXX and that's when I end up re-considering the whole thing...



Unless you want to spend the money to get something like a Mahlkoenig Tanzania I think you would be happy with the Infinity - not the most uniform grind you can get, but it beats store-ground beans anytime..

Lars


----------



## Johnny.B.Good

I have always enjoyed a strong cup of coffee. I enriched Starbucks for years (and still do on occasion) before breaking myself of the habit and making drip coffee through a simple filter fitted to a plastic cup. My sister gave me an inexpensive ($25) Capresso grinder and Bodum French press for Christmas last year, and I've never looked back. It's one of those things that always seemed like too much trouble until I started doing it. I don't think it takes me any longer to pulse some whole beans and press my coffee in the morning than it did to slowly pour water through a paper filter, and the results are night and day. I don't like tasting grounds in my coffee, but don't find that to be a problem with the press. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing with a more expensive grinder and/or roaster, but the setup I have is cheap and effective.


----------



## JohnnyChance

Kyle said:


> Thanks for the tip, I'm actually getting anxious to start doing more testing with it.
> 
> Now I just need to get a grinder. Is there a good grinder to be had for under $100? I always heard good things about the Capresso Infinity but then some coffee snob always chimes in to say that it's a POS and you can't get a good grinder for under $XXX and that's when I end up re-considering the whole thing...



I have the Capresso Infinity. It works fine. Especially if you are using a French Press, Chemex or Pour-over. I don't think you benefit from having a grinder that costs 10 times what your brew setup does. If you were super serious and had some of the crazier brewing methods, then yeah, go big on the grinder.

You could even get a manual hand crank burr grinder if you don't mind putting some muscle into your morning brew.


----------



## GlassEye

I just rebuilt the La Pavoni Europic a week or two ago and have been rather satisfied with what I can get from that. My technique is lacking, I think, due to so much time with the machine out of service. And I need to find a decent tamper that isn't stupid expensive.
Press pot is probably still my favorite method, so simple and great. 
Grinding with Baratza Virtuoso, has performed nicely so far.
Always fresh, locally roasted beans; origin to suit my mood.


----------



## littleroundman

Kyle said:


> The flavor is great, it's the feeling in my mouth that kind of bugs me. Maybe I'll bust out the press tonight and give it another shot.



Just a sugestion, but if you get the chance to sample a coffee from the recently released press from the Canadian company, Espro, try it.

In their own words:

_"The espro&#8482; press helps you make a clean cup, with all of the delicate flavours and aromas that fully express your coffee. You will taste the coffee, and not the grounds. And the cup you drink tomorrow is as good as the cup you drink today.

It is robust enough for home, coffee shop and restaurant use

The espro&#8482; press is a precision coffee brewer. It preserves all of the freshly brewed flavours and aromas by micro-filtering twice with a unique metal filter. This micro-filter keeps grounds out of your cup, and lets the aromatic oils in"
_
http://www.espro.ca/espro-press/


----------



## PhaetonFalling

littleroundman said:


> Just a sugestion, but if you get the chance to sample a coffee from the recently released press from the Canadian company, Espro, try it.
> 
> In their own words:
> 
> _"The espro press helps you make a clean cup, with all of the delicate flavours and aromas that fully express your coffee. You will taste the coffee, and not the grounds. And the cup you drink tomorrow is as good as the cup you drink today.
> 
> It is robust enough for home, coffee shop and restaurant use
> 
> The espro press is a precision coffee brewer. It preserves all of the freshly brewed flavours and aromas by micro-filtering twice with a unique metal filter. This micro-filter keeps grounds out of your cup, and lets the aromatic oils in"
> _
> http://www.espro.ca/espro-press/





I really like the Espro actuated tamper. I have one and it's pretty nice.



As for the other bit about the mouth feel of a french press.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfN116i4mVg



Lastly,

My coffee set up at home.


----------



## PhaetonFalling

From http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/670-Kitchen-Scores-Post-your-new-gear-here/page16



geezr said:


> :coolsign:
> checked out Stumptowns site and had no clue what coffee I should order :dontknow: so used their side-bar and reviewed different ways to make coffee.
> I will be ordering Ethiopian heirloom single origin espresso roast - thanks Spike - now I have 2 additional sources for coffee :running:
> PhaetonFalling and Spike, any other coffees you like from Stumptown?
> I brew espresso but also use Aeropress sometimes.
> 
> I did the Black cat coffee, forums fave etc. back in the day but have bought local since and it is costly and about time for variety - thanks :thumbsup:




Stumptown changes what's available all the time, but they always have their blends. For their blends, the Holler Mountain Roast was pretty good. I liked the brew at around 200-202.

As a general rule, I buy anything Columbian that they have. The first coffee I had from them was the Columbia Las Vegas (which is no longer around)... just a gorgeous cup when brewed at 197-198.

They had another Columbian that was really good that was good in the 195-196 range and honestly tasted heavily of blackberry jam (scrumptious!)

Their tasting notes are pretty spot on. I tend to like the coffees that are brought out at the lower temps because I feel the cup is more nuanced and subtle. The flavors brought out at the higher temps like dark chocolate tones slap you in the face really hard, but that's just my opinion. Get your grind down, and your tamp down, and then experiment with temps, you'll be amazed at what you taste!

In a way, coffee and kitchen knives are pretty similar. It's all very technical, and you get out what you put in.


----------



## PhaetonFalling

PhaetonFalling said:


> My coffee set up at home.




BTW, can anyone else see the above picture? It shows up on one of my computers, but not on the other one...

the link is below.

http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/2381_IMG_0698_1.jpg


----------



## obtuse

Check out counter culture coffee too, 5 dollar flat rate shipping.


----------



## Tristan

If anyone finds a great company selling raw beans online, with lots of experience doing bulk shipments overseas, please do give me a shout out. Would be much appreciated.


----------



## wenus2

On the topic of Stumptown, I'm currently drinking a Guatemalan bean from their Grand Cru series: Finca El Injerto- El Tanque.

While the price tag is a bit tough to swallow (nearly $40/lb) the coffee sure ain't!


Also, a good source to buy roasted beans is http://www.gocoffeego.com/ they only offer coffee from some of the best roasters in ths biz and they rotate weekly specials for free shipping (or sometimes coffee).


----------



## DarrenSwerid

I used to use a low key approach to making my Caramel Macchiato. When I found myself spending WAY too much at Starbucks I picked up these three items and started making my own:

Krups Coffee Grinder
Bialetti Moka Express
Aerolatte Stream Free Milk Frother

I was starting to make a damn good Latte. Then I went on this diet to lose some pounds before I get married in September. The hardest part was the cleanup afterwards. Good thing I got the "missus" the do that part for me!


----------



## geezr

:thankyou::thanx: and THANK YOU!! All the coffee provider sites are bookmarked :goodpost:
Really good to know there will be variety going forward :coffeelots:
Also appreciate moving my posts to this thread as my 1st post on this forum may have been on this thread


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Anyone who would like to really get to know about coffee, espresso, and gear, once again go to home-barista.com. It's the kitchenknifeforums of coffee.

Jason


----------



## The Edge

I've never been a huge fan of coffee. The only way I've been able to drink most restaurants stuff is to fill it with milk and sugar. That being said, about 6 months ago, I was eating at a restaurant and had a Turkish coffee. Wow!! Never had anything taste so good that was called coffee. Since then, I've bought an Ibrik, and a small can of finely ground Turkish coffee, and now I can't get enough. Maybe I need to just try a good cup of coffee, but this has been my experience so far.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Fresh coffee is different tasting than what you find in a supermarket. Correction, quality fresh coffee. When done right, with an experienced hand, it is like wine in the type of flavors that arise. Flavors such as fruity, chocolate, caramel, tobacco, acidic, balanced, winey, and bitter. I've tasted all these. Some are bold, others taste like tea. Unfortunetely, most people are introducted to stale, bitter coffee so they assume thats what coffee tastes like. That couldn't be further from the truth.


----------



## PhaetonFalling

Tristan said:


> If anyone finds a great company selling raw beans online, with lots of experience doing bulk shipments overseas, please do give me a shout out. Would be much appreciated.



I hear the place to go is http://www.sweetmarias.com/


----------



## l r harner

just checked the temp on my water and im lower then i thouhgt guess di ll haveot have a different plan for heating my water for my arropress (yes im a cheap ass but i do at least grind my own beans by hand in a bur grinder


----------



## compaddict

Second vote for the Behmor coffee roaster. I have no problem roasting indoors.
Many say that other roasters give more control but the Behmor does roast a full pound of green at a time which is a big plus.


----------



## obtuse

I dont like doing a full pound in the behmor because it roasts too slowly. I like to target 9 to 10 minutes otherwise the coffee tastes flat. In order to achieve this on the behmor I roast a quarter pound at a time.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

I know it's a no-no by the warranty, but I roast 1/2 lb using the 1 lb buttons. It's true, especially after 50+ roasts, the roasts take too long. It does require cleaning, specifically the fan and heat sensor. 

Also, to address a question:
www.sweetmarias.com 
www.roastmasters.com 
www.coffeeshrub.com (for businesses, owned bye sweetmarias) 

can solve your greens issue. There are others, but these are my favs.


----------



## geezr

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Anyone who would like to really get to know about coffee, espresso, and gear, once again go to home-barista.com. It's the kitchenknifeforums of coffee.
> 
> Jason



lus1:
used to lurk there as well at coffeegeek. so went to HB and found this:
http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/favorite-espresso-blends-2012-t20955.html


----------



## UCChemE05

For those who do not roast their own beans, I would highly suggest trying Red Bird Coffee. http://redbirdcoffee.com/

I LOVE the Red Bird espresso. I've tried several different roaster the past couple years but always come back. I order 5 lbs at a time and with free shipping you can't beat the price. As soon as I get the delivery, I seal the excess in pint mason jars and freeze them. Works great through the last jar...


----------



## obtuse

We should just start a coffee sub-forum here


----------



## PhaetonFalling

obtuse said:


> We should just start a coffee sub-forum here



+1


----------



## geezr

3rd day with Red Bird espresso - I think I got it for - grind, tamp etc. :thumbsup:


----------



## UCChemE05

geezr said:


> 3rd day with Red Bird espresso - I think I got it for - grind, tamp etc. :thumbsup:



So, what do you think?


----------



## geezr

UCChemE05 said:


> So, what do you think?



Still trying to dial-in taste but OK espresso and Americano 
Very different from local beans I use at 2x + the cost, these are smaller beans, milder roast and less aroma all around (bag, grind, cup).


----------



## SameGuy

For espresso my benchmark is Black Cat. It is also way too expensive -- I live in Canada so I need to bring in an unreasonable quantity to get the cost/ounce down from the exosphere to just the stratosphere... That said, it's damn good espresso. I've had better, but not often. It is consistently good, which is why it is a benchmark for me. Looking around for cheaper alternatives, I have tried Counter Culture Coffee's various espresso blends with some success. Their Rustica and Toscano blends work well with my very humble setup (cheap burr grinder, Rancilio Silvia v.3), and I was able to dial in the grind and tamp quickly. Next I'd like to try either Red Bird or Paradise Roasters, mainly because of the cost -- less than half the price per ounce compared to Black Cat for small quantities. If it is decent enough, I may switch.

Do either Red Bird or Paradise put their roast dates on the packages (as do IC and CCC)?


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

The problem with current day Black Cat is it is not the chocolate bomb it once was. Additionally, it changes quite often, as coffee's do. I can't quite remember as I am not home and can't check my bag, but I don't think Red Bird puts the roast date on the package; I am not worried, as I know it gets to me within 2 days of ordering. He always roasts right before he ships. Also, I love this as well: http://www.caffefresco.us/offerings/suggested_ambrosiaEspresso.php

Jason


----------



## UCChemE05

SameGuy said:


> For espresso my benchmark is Black Cat. It is also way too expensive -- I live in Canada so I need to bring in an unreasonable quantity to get the cost/ounce down from the exosphere to just the stratosphere... That said, it's damn good espresso. I've had better, but not often. It is consistently good, which is why it is a benchmark for me. Looking around for cheaper alternatives, I have tried Counter Culture Coffee's various espresso blends with some success. Their Rustica and Toscano blends work well with my very humble setup (cheap burr grinder, Rancilio Silvia v.3), and I was able to dial in the grind and tamp quickly. Next I'd like to try either Red Bird or Paradise Roasters, mainly because of the cost -- less than half the price per ounce compared to Black Cat for small quantities. If it is decent enough, I may switch.



I thought BC was decent but definately not worth it for me for the price. I used to be more of a "choc bomb" kind of guy but my preferences have evolved to a bit brighter blends (though definately not in-your-face bright).

I can't remember if Jeff puts the date on the bags. (ordering 5# at a time, i don't get them too often  ) I do know all my past orders have been shipped the same day as roasted. During non-summer months he includes a free small chocolate with each lb. ordered which I think is a nice touch.



AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Also, I love this as well: http://www.caffefresco.us/offerings/suggested_ambrosiaEspresso.php
> 
> Jason



I've heard that Ambrosia is good but haven't tried it yet myself.


----------



## geezr

Red Bird bag has hand written date - upper right corner of label.
This am brewed RB espresso beans using Aeropress with metal filter and coarser grind. Good :happymug: 
Will do Aeropress again tomorrow, then to espresso machine.


----------



## SameGuy

Redirecting from another thread...



obtuse said:


> The cory is much better made syphon, but they both opperate on the same principles. What is your current yama procedure?




Pretty basic, actually. Though our tap water is perfectly alright, I prefer to use filtered water in all my coffees. For the Yama I just start the flame and bring quart of Brita water to a boil in an electric kettle. I pour a couple of ounces into the Yama for a few seconds to reduce the thermal shock, then fill it up and slide the flame underneath, and insert the coffee chamber. When the upper chamber is full and roiling, I give it a quick stir and time one minute, at which point I remove the flame and watch the magic. Eventually I may get the butane burner and skip the kettle for pre-heating the water. After my cup, I clean the upper chamber, rinse the filter under cold running water while I re-boil the rest of the water in the kettle. I throw the filter in a small marmalade jar, fill it with boiling water and screw on the lid. When it cools and vacuum seals itself, I put it in the fridge until next time. I get about 40 brews before the muslin gets a bit too tattered.

I've been using different single origins from Intelligentsia and Counter Culture, letting them grind for vacuum siphon brewers for me (my little grinder is always full of espresso blend and is too fiddly on a normal day).


----------



## foreleft

Nice, a coffee thread! Been roasting my own for about a year now off and on in a Whirley Pop. I mostly use an aeropress, but occasionally a french press if I have company, and I have an inexpensive espresso setup too but the results are mixed with that. 

I had to put a plug in for the roaster of my absolute favorite espresso blend ever veltonscoffee.com/. One guy roasting small batches weekly. The Bonsai blend is an amazing espresso blend and the Twilight blend is good for those who like a bit darker roast for drip/pour over. He's a super nice guy too.


----------



## Kyle

So now that I moved to Texas and it's going to start getting very hot, I decided I'm going to make my own cold brew for iced coffee in the morning. I finally picked up a grinder. I decided to cheap out and get a hand crank since I'll be making coffee concentrate and I'll only need to grind maybe once a week, plus I'll most likely be using it in my office and don't want to disturb others.

I bought this grinder

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004QDVNVW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

And I'll brew in this French press 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003NG922U/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

So am I doing OK for an office cold brew setup? What type of beans are good for iced coffee? I'm just not sure where I should even begin.


----------



## WildBoar

You gonna drink it straight up, or add sugar and/ or milk?

Chilling the coffee will dull some of the finer flavor nuances, and adding milk (and to a lesser extent sugar) will dull it even more. So while I do not have any specific bean/ roaster recommendations, just keep in mind going for single origins, etc. may not provide much benefit.

I'm not knocking iced coffee though -- I like it every now and then.


----------



## wenus2

Kyle if you want iced coffee you will be far better off to brew in a toddy brewer, cold French press isn't that clean and I feel like the end product can often be more bitter than it should be.
Try: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040ZR0VS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I have a couple hand grinders myself, nothing at all wrong with using them. Despite also having 2k in electric grinders, I enjoy using mine frequently, especially when doing the more manual process of pour-over.

For beans one needs to realize that in cold brew more of the nutty and earthy tones come forward and that you lose all of the floral and mostly all of the fruitiness. So as David said, your bean choice should reflect this, and lesser coffees will taste better as an iced brew than they would have hot. Personally I still believe in drinking single origin iced coffee though, just don't spend $25/lb on a Guat because it exhibits a beautiful honeysuckle note. I like to look for things with black fruit and chocolate as descriptors, as well as good earthiness. Also, while I don't mind spending $25+/lb on something I will vac-pot, I try to keep an iced candidate around 15-18. Some suggestions for origins would be Brazil, Nicaragua, Papa New Guinea, Bali, Ethiopia.

If you really get into it you can get an ice drip brewer one day, that is actually next on my coffee item list.
It produces an end product that is oddly rich and unctuous, picture a cocktail of Frangelico and Kahlua on ice. I find 4oz to be an ample serving on ice, and it also dilutes well for a daily type drink.

Find it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RL9DW6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I hope some of this info is useful for you. Happy brewing.


----------



## cnochef

Vietnamese iced coffee is deliciously sweet and addictive, not to mention easy!
http://coffeegeek.com/guides/vietnameseiced


----------



## SpikeC

A trip to the coffee geek web site might be very helpful to you in this endeavor.


----------



## geezr

SpikeC said:


> A trip to the coffee geek web site might be very helpful to you in this endeavor.


lus1:
went to coffee geek site and may try making iced Vietnamese coffee :biggrin:
usps just delivered Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Adado from Stumptown Coffee Roasters - just in time as the local beans are almost gone.
Was able to dial-in Red Bird for tasty espresso/Americanos - typically about 50% crema. Also 50/50 blend was good with darker roasted local beans.


----------



## SpikeC

I'm using Ethiopia Mordecofe single origin espresso roast organic hereloom from Stumptown. Whew!


----------



## Kyle

wenus2 said:


> Kyle if you want iced coffee you will be far better off to brew in a toddy brewer, cold French press isn't that clean and I feel like the end product can often be more bitter than it should be.
> Try: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040ZR0VS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> 
> I have a couple hand grinders myself, nothing at all wrong with using them. Despite also having 2k in electric grinders, I enjoy using mine frequently, especially when doing the more manual process of pour-over.
> 
> For beans one needs to realize that in cold brew more of the nutty and earthy tones come forward and that you lose all of the floral and mostly all of the fruitiness. So as David said, your bean choice should reflect this, and lesser coffees will taste better as an iced brew than they would have hot. Personally I still believe in drinking single origin iced coffee though, just don't spend $25/lb on a Guat because it exhibits a beautiful honeysuckle note. I like to look for things with black fruit and chocolate as descriptors, as well as good earthiness. Also, while I don't mind spending $25+/lb on something I will vac-pot, I try to keep an iced candidate around 15-18. Some suggestions for origins would be Brazil, Nicaragua, Papa New Guinea, Bali, Ethiopia.
> 
> If you really get into it you can get an ice drip brewer one day, that is actually next on my coffee item list.
> It produces an end product that is oddly rich and unctuous, picture a cocktail of Frangelico and Kahlua on ice. I find 4oz to be an ample serving on ice, and it also dilutes well for a daily type drink.
> 
> Find it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RL9DW6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> 
> I hope some of this info is useful for you. Happy brewing.



I had a Toddy and loved it, but my roommate broke the carafe that came with it and then it got cold again so I stopped cold brewing. When I moved I chucked the remnants of it. I honestly only went with the French press because it's all in a much more elegant package than the Toddy, and since this will be in my office I just figured it would look a little nicer. I'm not questioning you, but if cold brew is simply soaking grinds in water overnight and then filtering out the beans, how does the French press produce a more bitter product? My plan was to press and pour the remaining concentrate in a separate carafe for storage in the fridge. If the Toddy will be better I will return the press. I wanted an Hourglass brewer since that seems like a much more elegant design than the Toddy but I guess it's discontinued now.

I've seen those cold drip coffee makers, but I only drink iced coffee when I need my fix in the summer months and a hot cup of coffee doesn't sound too appealing when it's 100+ outside. Doing cold brew myself is to just save me from spending $4 daily at Starbucks.

Thanks for all the advice!


----------



## wenus2

Too bad you tossed the Toddy pieces, you can get a polycarbonate replacement carafe for like $10.
But hey, if you already have the FP then go for it, I thought you were buying a new device. 
Like the differences in most brewing methods, assuming all other factors to be equal, the wild card is the means of filtering. The FP doesn't filter off oils, which is its draw for hot coffee because it contains more flavonoids. IMHO I find they become tannic and the cold coffee from the FP doesn't hold as well as from the Toddy over time. Your experience may be different. Also, I haven't tried this particular design of the FP for this, just the standard rig.
Either way you're getting a superior product compared to pouring brewed coffee over ice, so good for you for doing things right.
I do love a good cup of iced coffee in the summer!


----------



## obtuse

Just cold brew it in the FP then pour it through a number 4 filter into a carafe. That's what i would do.


----------



## foreleft

For cold brew I look for any cheapo dark roast. You lose a lot of the flavors when cold especially with milk & sugar. My usual is something from World Market in the big 2 lb bags. I dump the grounds and water into a big stainless bowl, let it sit for 12-18 hours stirring it once or twice, and then strain through a strainer lined with a flour sack/tea towel. 

I threw my Toddy away, too messy for me.


----------



## Dieter01

Lots of good information in this thread. Here is me cupping a few batches roasted on the Quest M3. Great, casual way to start a Sunday morning


----------



## Dieter01

Double post... Deleted


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Dieter...awesome!


----------



## obtuse

Sounds like fun


----------



## JMac

anyone have experience with a Eva solo?


----------



## obtuse

It's like a french press without the press. I think it's a little easier to clean.


----------



## Duckfat

I just killed my second Brevile smart grinder. Does any one have any experience with Baratza? I'm thinking about ordering a refurb Virtuoso.
Any grinder input or vendor tips greatly appreciated.


Dave


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Buy a used Mazzer and call it a day. They are tanks. I have two mini's.


----------



## Duckfat

The mazzer might be a bit out of my budget and it probably would have helped if I had said I'm a French Press guy. Hoping to stay under $250.

Dave


----------



## GlassEye

Duckfat said:


> I just killed my second Brevile smart grinder. Does any one have any experience with Baratza? I'm thinking about ordering a refurb Virtuoso.
> Any grinder input or vendor tips greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Dave



I have been using a Baratza Virtuoso for a couple of years, been happy with it. I can grind finer than I need for espresso to coarser than press pot needs, button on the front is nice too if you are grinding directly into a portafilter or small press pot. Easier to break down for cleaning than previous grinders I have had.


----------



## SpikeC

I have a KA Proline with Mazzer burrs in it. It's my budget hot rod!


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## apicius9

Rancilio Rocky here. Have the doser-less one, works well enough but is a bit messy.

Stefan


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Duckfat said:


> The mazzer might be a bit out of my budget and it probably would have helped if I had said I'm a French Press guy. Hoping to stay under $250.
> 
> Dave



If you look on the bay you could get one about there or a little less. You would have to spend $40 on new burrs, likely.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Frankly though, for french press you could have a whirly blade for all it matters. Fresh coffee is more important.


----------



## Namaxy

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Frankly though, for french press you could have a whirly blade for all it matters. Fresh coffee is more important.



Really?? I'm not a guru, but I've always liked a press. I could never get my family to buy in because of the small amount of sludge/mud in the cup. TBH - I like that aspect - but to them it was a deal killer - they had to have drip. That changed when I got a Virtuoso - I'm not saying there is no mud - but enough less that my old fashioned parents/grandparents will now drink press coffee with me after dinner.


----------



## wenus2

For press a good consistant grind is important because (that mud IS annoying, and) the weird flat pieces and the powder from a whirly blade will over extract and make your brew bitter. You needs a decent burr grinder for sure. 
My number 1 suggestion: if you are a little crazy and have the space... find a used Bunn or Grindmaster commercial machine, the tall rectangle box ones. Those things do a great job with a super even grind, I've seen em' for 250 on Craigslist and Ebay here and there, just might have to be a bit patient.

Second suggestion: get that refurb Virtuoso, it's a great deal I think. I got a buddy a refurb from them, it came like new and it's been running great for going on 4 years now.
I gave my dad a Maestro from them about 10 years ago, its also still going strong and it was the cheaper one.

Third sugggestion: Throw caution to the wind and spring for a Mahlkonig Guatemala, keet it real, be the envy of all your friends.... and me


----------



## Duckfat

I could never go back to a whirly blade. That's like turning in my blades for Cutco or going back to a gas grill. :eek2: Funny any one should mention the Bunn. I used to own one. Selling coffee beans was the first business I ever owned but that was many years ago. I wish I would have kept that grinder even though it was a monstrosity.
It did work well.
A Mahlkonig Guatemala would go nicely with a new Speedster or La Pavoni. 
Has any one ordered from WholeLotteLove? 

Dave


http://www.keesvanderwesten.com/news_new-speedster4.html


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## Namaxy

Yup.... My Guatemala is coming right after the vintage Berkel.....well and the lottery win of course....:rofl2:


----------



## GlassEye

Duckfat said:


> Has any one ordered from WholeLotteLove?


I think I may have once, can't remember too well. I also ordered from Orphan Espresso few months ago, they were great to deal with. 

This thread has made me need some coffee, looks like I get to go coffee shopping tomorrow before work.


----------



## wenus2

I've ordered from WLL a few times. They used to be about all there was for a web presence, how times have changed. Anyway, they are a long standing and legitimate company, if that's what you were wondering.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

wenus2 said:


> For press a good consistant grind is important because (that mud IS annoying, and) the weird flat pieces and the powder from a whirly blade will over extract and make your brew bitter. You needs a decent burr grinder for sure.
> My number 1 suggestion: if you are a little crazy and have the space... find a used Bunn or Grindmaster commercial machine, the tall rectangle box ones. Those things do a great job with a super even grind, I've seen em' for 250 on Craigslist and Ebay here and there, just might have to be a bit patient.
> 
> Second suggestion: get that refurb Virtuoso, it's a great deal I think. I got a buddy a refurb from them, it came like new and it's been running great for going on 4 years now.
> I gave my dad a Maestro from them about 10 years ago, its also still going strong and it was the cheaper one.
> 
> Third sugggestion: Throw caution to the wind and spring for a Mahlkonig Guatemala, keet it real, be the envy of all your friends.... and me



I respectfully disagree. I have some serious equipment and I can't notice the difference.

Two most important things with french press are freshness of coffee and steeping time, 3-4 mins. Pour it into a thermos and discard grounds.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

I probably should mention, I say these things because most people aren't going to flop down $100 on a good grinder, let alone $600+. I try to be realistic and practical. Pretty much grinders under $150 are all POS, unless you can swipe a used good grinder. I use the whirly/FP combo at work, and a mazzer at home. Not much difference, if any at all.


----------



## Duckfat

Gosh I don't know Jason. I can tell the difference between a FP with a consistent grind and a FP ground with a whirly blade. Those blade grinders wind up with chunk and dust. That makes a murky cup and you get a lot more silt at the bottom. I agree fresh coffee and brew times are very important and I sure don't want to sound like I don't value the feedback because I do. I think your spot on that most FP drinkers wouldn't spend that Much $$ on a grinder but I'm a pretty eccentric FP drinker. I weigh my grind and water for every pot and use the FP to froth milk. 
I'll gladly spend $250 on a good grinder. What really roasts my bean is when I drop $200+ on a unit like the Breville and kill two of them in a year.
I just want something that is consistent and will last. Looks like I missed out on the refurbs so I'm going with a new Baratza virtuoso. 
I looked at the mazers and I think if I wanted to my wife would even say go ahead and grab one and a la Pavoni but I'm just not that into espresso. Plus I gotta feed my other hobbies! 
Thanks guys I really appreciate the help.

Dave


----------



## Lars

You can "cheat" a little with the Baratza and shift the ground coffee with a tea strainer to get rid of the fine dust.
I think unless you go for a big shop grinder, a Baratza or similar is a great choise for home use.

Lars


----------



## wenus2

Duckfat said:


> What really roasts my bean is when I drop $200+ on a unit like the Breville and kill two of them in a year.


Well take comfort, the reason Baratza has those refurbs all the time is because they stand by their product, and they have notoriously excellent customer service. I've read of many people even getting replacements on units that are out of warranty. So while it's a much better grinder than the Breville to begin with, even if you get a lemon, they will fix it.

Also, if you wanted to save a buck, those refurbs come back in all the time. You might even be able to call them up and have them put you down for the next one.

Anyhow, i hope you enjoy your new grinder. I do love my Vario (no more weighing beans).


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

I think this abbreviation sums it up, YMMV!


----------



## Duckfat

I almost tripped the trigger but I'm capitulating now about ordering a Vario and the SS Ditting burrs. 

Dave


----------



## Duckfat

Lars said:


> You can "cheat" a little with the Baratza and shift the ground coffee with a tea strainer to get rid of the fine dust.
> I think unless you go for a big shop grinder, a Baratza or similar is a great choise for home use.
> 
> Lars



That's actually a very good idea. Thanks for the tip. 
Dave


----------



## Duckfat

Wound up tripping the trigger on a Baratza Virtuoso preciso. I'd sure like to hear any input you guys that are roasting at home can offer on a roaster. I've been reading as much as I can on the subject but I've zero experience in that department.

Dave


----------



## l r harner

so what say you about hand cranked grinders that you can adjust the grind on


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Duckfat said:


> Wound up tripping the trigger on a Baratza Virtuoso preciso. I'd sure like to hear any input you guys that are roasting at home can offer on a roaster. I've been reading as much as I can on the subject but I've zero experience in that department.
> 
> Dave



Anyone starting out roasting must get a Behmor, it's pretty much the standard. One of these days I am going to secure a used sampler roaster, one of these days...


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

l r harner said:


> so what say you about hand cranked grinders that you can adjust the grind on



I have one, nothing wrong with them. I have a Zassenhaus I never use. May I suggest I (if you want the rolls royce of them): http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-PHAROS-Hand-Coffee-Grinder_p_3977.html


----------



## foreleft

Duckfat said:


> Wound up tripping the trigger on a Baratza Virtuoso preciso. I'd sure like to hear any input you guys that are roasting at home can offer on a roaster. I've been reading as much as I can on the subject but I've zero experience in that department.
> 
> Dave



If you want to give roasting a try without the $300 investment of a Behmor pick up a whirly pop. At www.sweetmarias.com you can get the whirly pop and 8 lbs of green coffee for about $50. They also have a decent book on home coffee roasting there for $15.


----------



## Dieter01

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I have one, nothing wrong with them. I have a Zassenhaus I never use. May I suggest I (if you want the rolls royce of them): http://www.orphanespresso.com/OE-PHAROS-Hand-Coffee-Grinder_p_3977.html



I own a few vintage Zassenhaus grinders, the Zassenhaus knee grinder, the OE PFP and the OE Pharos. I have tried quite a few more because I need to have a non-powered version at work. The Pharos is the only one that can remotely compare to the better electric grinders. It does a decent job but don't expect a high-end grinder at a low-end price - there is a sginifican difference between a Pharos and the Mahlkönig Tanzania I use at home.

That said, buying a grinder from Orphan Espresso is probably the best option for a hand grinder at the moment. Some used vintage grinders are quite good also but it is a bit hit-and-miss trying to find a good one.


----------



## JanusInTheGarden

Anyone ever rig up a home made cold press coffee system? I've owned a Toddy before and I can never understand how they can sleep at night charging $40 for essentially a plastic tub, a rubber stopper, and a piece of cheap filter. 

My initial thoughts are a glass pitcher to go through the process of "brewing" then pass it through my fine mesh sieve? Maybe add cheesecloth to the equation (would that block passage of the oils?)?


----------



## Pensacola Tiger

JanusInTheGarden said:


> Anyone ever rig up a home made cold press coffee system? I've owned a Toddy before and I can never understand how they can sleep at night charging $40 for essentially a plastic tub, a rubber stopper, and a piece of cheap filter.
> 
> My initial thoughts are a glass pitcher to go through the process of "brewing" then pass it through my fine mesh sieve? Maybe add cheesecloth to the equation (would that block passage of the oils?)?



http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...cussion-thread?p=111032&viewfull=1#post111032


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## JanusInTheGarden

Ah, missed that one. Did a "thread" search on this one and that particular one didn't show up. Appreciate it.


----------



## apicius9

I shouldn't even ask, it will only give me evil GAS thoughts :spiteful:, but how are you doing with the Preciso, Dave? I was o.k. with my Rocky, but right now the doserless design annoys me because of the mess I get when I use it, and I also switch more back and forth between espresso, french press and drip coffees than I used to. So, I was wondering how the Preciso holds up. I am also not sure - compared with the Rocky, would it be more of a lateral move or a step up, especially for espresso? CoffeeGeek seemed to be very happy with the Preciso, but there are also a lot of forum posts with issues from what see...

Stefan



Duckfat said:


> Wound up tripping the trigger on a Baratza Virtuoso preciso. I'd sure like to hear any input you guys that are roasting at home can offer on a roaster. I've been reading as much as I can on the subject but I've zero experience in that department.
> 
> Dave


----------



## Duckfat

I'm really liking the Preciso. Truly one of the best all purpose grinders I've owned. It's quiet, clean and I don't get road gravel on a FP grind. The burrs are very nice and easy to clean. The grind by time Vs grind by weight is a bit different for me but that was easy to get used to. If any one wants to see any detailed pics just ask. As far as Espresso grind I can't imagine this machine not being up to the task but I expect that will vary considerably with your machine. Now I just need to order some Organic Kona....

Dave


----------



## rahimlee54

Guys a little help here, wife decided she wanted an espresso machine. She was talking about the nespresso but I decided against the pods. So now with no prior knowledge I am going to be buying a machine. I just browsed the thread here and found homebarista so I'll be living there this week.

Onto the question, I guess we will be spending around 1k on a machine plus grinder and I plan on going semi automatic. My friend has a lelit so I naturally started there 

This looks like it would be very handy Lelit Combi (PL042EM)  but other opinions would be great. I wonder if the grinder included is decent quality or would I just be paying extra for it to be in the box, so to speak. Any direction would be great.

Thanks
Jared


----------



## UCChemE05

http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/lelit/index.htm

Unless you need the space, I'd save a coupe bucks and go separates. Plus if one dies, you don't lose both. The PL04 is a pretty well regarded machine but I've never used it. I had the PL53 and liked it but sold it to jump on the Vario band wagon.


----------



## SameGuy

I think I've (we've) said it before: it's _easy _to make *great *coffee with a _so-so_ espresso machine and a _good_ grinder, but it's hard to make *good *coffee with a _great _espresso machine and a _so-so_ grinder. Spend a little extra money on the best grinder that fits your budget and you will get consistent results once you've dialed in all the parameters. Go with a cheap grinder (like I have) and despite your best efforts, great coffee and a good espresso maker, you'll probably only get one good pull out of three. 

Start with a great grinder and a sturdy starter espresso maker like the Silvia v.3 or the Le'Lit P041 and you will be making consistently good shots for years before choosing to upgrade the espresso machine. If you really want even more consistency, get the factory-PIDed 041 or add an Auber Instruments PID to a Silvia and you may never choose to upgrade the machine (I've had my "temporary" Silvia for seven years and if I PID it I doubt I'll every upgrade).


----------



## chokobo

From what I've heard, the Lelit Combi is a decent choice in that price range but for the same reasons listed by I too would rather separates.

If you can stretch your budget a tad, and possibly wait for the 30% Williams Sonoma sales, you can get the following for around 1k:
- Breville Dual Boiler http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/breville-dual-boiler-espresso-machine/?pkey=e|breville%2Bdual|1|best|0|1|24||1&cm_src=PRODUCTSEARCH||NoFacet-_-NoFacet-_-NoMerchRules-_-
- Breville Smart Conical Burr Grinder http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/breville-conical-burr-grinder-bcg800xl/?pkey=e|breville%2Bgrinder|3|best|0|1|24||3&cm_src=PRODUCTSEARCH||NoFacet-_-NoFacet-_-NoMerchRules-_-

Check out the CoffeeGeek first look review (http://coffeegeek.com/proreviews/firstlook/brevilledualboiler/details) and the associated forums for details on the espresso machine, or check out the slightly annoying video review by Seattle Coffee Gear at http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7NIGabvnD2w. Lots of good features for home users, such as built in water filter and very temperature stable. The group temperature is also configurable, which is good if you want to delve into excellent roasts by the speciality coffee joints like Intelligentsia and Stumptown to dial in the precise balance between sourness and bitterness. The only cavaet being that they are relatively new, and don't have established reliability records, but at the price they are a bargain!

Don't forget the importance of the grinder though. I think it's actually more important than the espresso machine itself, but never really gets the recognition it deserves. If you don't mind buying used gear, then look out for a used Mazzer Mini or a Super Jolly. Mazzer's are somewhat the commercial standard and they really are built like tanks. If you don't mind hand grinding then the Orphan Espresso Pharos (with voodoodaddy mods) is excellent or the new HG One, which is about to be released looks absolutely fantastic and user-friendly. We don't have many Vario grinders here in Australia, so haven't had much experience with those, but from most accounts they are probably a good/better option than the Breville Grinder listed above.

And.. for lever lovers, finally a commercial lever which is home use friendly is about to be released - the Londinium I. Lots of info at http://londiniumespresso.com/blogs/londinium-espresso-blog but you might have to read through quite a few blog posts to get to the initial info.


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## WildBoar

Highly recommend picking up a used Mazzer Super Jolly. If it's one that's seen some use, you can replace the burr. For ~$450-500 you will be set for a very long time with a first-class grinder.


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## rahimlee54

It is looking like a Vario and Silvano or maybe an anita. I think the vario will fit in a smaller space better for me mostly. Any detractors? I think either machine and that grinder would have me setup until one or both of them die.


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## chokobo

Silvano has a thermoblock for steam which generally means sub-optimal performance especially for larger milk coffees. Anita is a good choice but I still think you should consider the Breville. Not as shiny as some of the Italian E61's but I don't really think the Italian machines are that well made anyway... If height is an issue with the Super Jolly, you could always get a smaller hopper (the plastic thing on the top which holds the beans). Either way you go, looks like you'll have an awesome set up. It all takes a while to learn and get the hang off, but this is always a handy guide to dialling in your shots - http://www.home-barista.com/tips/espresso-101-how-to-adjust-dose-and-grind-setting-by-taste-t16968.html.


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## rahimlee54

Ya I was concerned about the milk performance as that is my wife's main use, which is why I considered the Anita. I'll give the breville a look tonight. A reviewer commented on the SJ vs the vario that he only had 3 inches with the short hopper under his cabinets and if it isn't convenient it will see less use and I'd prefer convenience if performance is about equal.


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## SameGuy

Well, if you're (more than) doubling your budget now, you've opened up a LOT of doors. There are many, many decent machines in the $1500 to $2500 range, but note that at $1500 you are getting close to the point of diminishing returns. You have to honestly ask yourself how many espressos and how many milk drinks you intend to prepare on a _daily_ basis (not just special occasions or when you have guests over). A $2000 machine needs its own type of commitment to master. If you're only making a couple of espressos a day and the occasional cap or latte on weekends, you might do better getting a top-notch grinder and a decent single-boiler machine for now. The beauty of a Rancilio Silvia or the Le'Lit P041 (among a handful of sub-$1000 standouts) is that when you think you are ready to graduate to a Quick Mill or La Spaziale you can sell your "starter" machine for pretty good money -- they are always in high demand if they've been well maintained.


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## SameGuy

If your wife is "concerned" about milk performance but was considering a Nespresso, and now has you looking at an Anita... ROTFL!


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## chokobo

Grinders aren't too heavy to shift, they just slide on your bench top? I really can't comment on the Vario, from what I've read it is a good choice, but imo the SJ would still have consistently better performance with less need to potentially groom the puck or worry so much about distribution. I'm not sure how much reviewers actually mention the ease of getting a good shot, they usually assume that one will do everything necessary to fix the deficiencies such as WDT. Fair enough if you go to the trouble of WDT each shot (time consuming) then the Vario may perform just as well, but that's a lifestyle choice you have to make. Unlike the Italian espresso machines, Mazzers are really built like a tank. If anything all you would have to do is replace the burrs, quite cheaply, and chuck a couple of kgs of supermarket beans through the new burrs to run them in and you'll have a great grinder that should last forever.


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## SameGuy

Absolutely. Let's not forget that most who would submit a review at a coffee equipment vendor's site (or CG or HB) don't mind fiddling for 20 minutes to extract a good shot. I doubt rahimlee's wife wants to spend 20+ minutes every morning to get her Half-Caf-Non-Fat-Low-Foam-Venti. Isn't that what the queue at Coffee Club or Gloria Jean's is for?


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## rahimlee54

SameGuy said:


> Absolutely. Let's not forget that most who would submit a review at a coffee equipment vendor's site (or CG or HB) don't mind fiddling for 20 minutes to extract a good shot. I doubt rahimlee's wife wants to spend 20+ minutes every morning to get her Half-Caf-Non-Fat-Low-Foam-Venti. Isn't that what the queue at Coffee Club or Gloria Jean's is for?



Pretty much. She isn't concerned with anything, milk or performance related, she just assigned me research duty. She just wanted the nespresso but I couldn't just leave it alone, I did try though. Would I just be better off getting a machine around the 1k mark and trying it out for a while? I am usually into buying higher up and not worrying about buying again until whatever I have no longer works. I end up spending less money and don't want an upgrade for a long time. In this case since I have no prior experience I can be swayed by more experienced opinions.

Thanks for the hep guys.

Jared


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## SameGuy

I am the same way. But I'm also a hands-on geek, so I decided to save a bit and get a good, solid machine that is by far the best-selling entry-level home barista unit (the Rancilio Silvia). It's not perfect by any stretch -- the temperature dead band is huge and it vapor locks every initial heating cycle requiring a purge. But for $629 it can make outstanding espresso and surprisingly good milk drinks with some hands-on time. For another $150 you can add a PID kit to get rid of the temperature swings and it is close to perfect. Now to find an easily-installed vacuum breaker to get rid of the vapor locks and it would be the best sub-$1500 machine around.


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## chokobo

If you have the discretionary, get the best you can get. I find re-sale a hassle and you end up not having to re-learn how to get the best out of your equipment. That being said, demand is there entry level gear so it'll probably be easy to move on when the time comes. Problem with buying something good is there is always an upgrade (more expensive usually) around the corner, regardless of how good a machine you get =)


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## WildBoar

RE Super Jolly height -- I do not use the hopper. I pour the beans for the shot into the grinder and then cover the hole w/ a tamper -- it fits perfectly. Ideally you would not be leaving beans in the hopper unless you were using them up each day, as they are just getting staler and staler when they are in there.

W/ no hopper, there is no real height issue w/ cabinets.


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## chokobo

Just a reminder to have good filtration in place for your water. Scale from unsuitable water can lead to very costly repairs or maintenance.


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## wenus2

WildBoar said:


> RE Super Jolly height -- I do not use the hopper. I pour the beans for the shot into the grinder and then cover the hole w/ a tamper -- it fits perfectly.  Ideally you would not be leaving beans in the hopper unless you were using them up each day, as they are just getting staler and staler when they are in there.



This is what I do as well. My 58mm tamper just lives in the throat of the grinder. 
I own a Vario also, but I have never tried to use it for espresso. It just makes coffee. But I can quickly and easily adjust the grind between drip in the Technivorm, or siphon brewed coffee in the Yama, or cold brew in the Toddy.

This is well above your stated budget, but....
If I were going to buy an espresso machine it would be a Vibiemme DoubleDomo from Stefano at EspressoCare.com
Given your location on the other coast though, I would suggest the Izzo Alex Duetto II from ChrisCoffee.com

I can't think of any sub $1,000 espresso machine that isn't a glorified toy. You can learn to fool around with one to work ok most of the time, but they don't "just work." I suffered through several different types of machines before finally realizing cheap machines are simply that. I would have saved a lot of time, money, and frustration just ponying up to begin with.

And no, upgraditis doesn't end. I have my eyes on a Speedster.


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## SameGuy

LOL! Not denying the "they just work" aspect, but even with my crappy grinder I can pull decent doubles with my un-modded Silvia. The mods I indicated above would still keep the price below $1000 and help with the consistency. I still think the grinder would be the biggest factor in any setup. A sub-$1000 machine can make great espresso with a good grinder, while a crappy grinder will hinder the performance of a $2000+ machine. Where a more-expensive machine beats the Silvia and the P041 (among others) is in milk capabilities. A double boiler or heat exchanger machine will run circles around a thermoblock when it comes to steaming milk quickly, effortlessly and repeatedly. Between the $629 Silvia and the next step up is a wide, empty gap that ends around the QM Anita or Andreja Premium at ~$1600.


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## WildBoar

I will admit to spending way more then I originally intended on our espresso machine because I wanted one I could manually control, yet also wanted semi-auto features so my wife could use it. Temp surfing on a Silvia, etc. was not an option for her. And due to her really liking cappuccinos and lattes a double boiler was important. But in the end, even the semi-auto was too complicated for her (well, really the grinding/ tamping), so I make all the espressos, cappuccinos, etc. :lol2: Three years later, the sting of the machine cost is a distant memory, and I enjoy a nice cappuccino before heading to work each morning. And the machine gets a good workout when we host dinners and parties; the double boiler really helps out when making half a dozen cappuccinos (yes, we do not adhere to the 'no milk after 10:00 am' rule, and neither do our friends!).


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## UCChemE05

chokobo said:


> Not as shiny as some of the Italian E61's but I don't really think the Italian machines are that well made anyway...



Based on what? This is completely false. Most high quality espresso machines are still made in Italy with pretty much the rest coming from the US.


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## apicius9

I have the Anita and I do have somewhat mixed feelings about it. I think I just got frustrated in the beginning and was overwhelmed by learning how to use it - and there is a learning curve. I also made it harder on myself by buying a machine, a mediocre grinder (Rocky) and a small roaster (IRoast II) at the same time. Needing to learn how all three machines worked and how to get them to work together to make a good coffee got frustrating at times. I am just in the process of starting over again and working with the Anita a bit more, hoping I will master it better with more practice. I always envy a friend who gets better and more consistent shots with a Mazzer mini grinder and an unmodded Silvia than I get with my setup. If I had to do it again, I would buy a double boiler machine. Most of the frustration comes with dealing with the heat exchanger and getting the temperatures right (even with a little thermometer in the heat group). And I definitely would also get a better grinder. That's not in the budget right now, so I will have to work with what I have. 

That said, I just watched the little video on the Alex duetto II at Chriscoffee.com and this has to be the most beautiful thing I ever saw. Well, at least when it comes to coffee machines. Total overkill for someone who makes maybe 3-4 shots a day, though. Just like owning a $500 kitchen knife is overkill  

Stefan


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## SameGuy

UCChemE05 said:


> Based on what? This is completely false. Most high quality espresso machines are still made in Italy with pretty much the rest coming from the US.


Except for the Brevilles, which come from chokobo's neck of the woods (Australia)!


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## SameGuy

apicius9 said:


> That said, I just watched the little video on the Alex duetto II at Chriscoffee.com and this has to be the most beautiful thing I ever saw. Well, at least when it comes to coffee machines. *Total overkill for someone who makes maybe 3-4 shots a day, though. Just like owning a $500 kitchen knife is overkill*
> 
> Stefan


Ain't that the truth!


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## chokobo

UCChemE05 said:


> Based on what? This is completely false. Most high quality espresso machines are still made in Italy with pretty much the rest coming from the US.



Based on my previous experience owning an Alex Duetto II. Pretty much all the Italian machines are made with off the shelf parts made by ageing industry. The QC on the the parts itself is the annoying part. Maybe I got a lemon but it annoyed me so much with rattles, reliability - the pump is vertically on top of the motor (I had a motor failure too) and overshoot on the PID. With conservative settings on the PID, steam recovery was subI'm all up for honouring the history in Italian espresso, but in terms of quality I would think that only La Marzocco or Bosco are really that decent over there. The States on the other hand have some innovative stuff in Synesso and Slayer Espresso.


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## chokobo

SameGuy said:


> Except for the Brevilles, which come from chokobo's neck of the woods (Australia)!



Haha I have no horse in that race. I own a machine from the Netherlands =). But let Mr. CoffeeGeek from Canada tell you the same thing - http://twitter.com/FRSHGRND/status/245401004307251200. In reality, quality and reliability of all machines are unacceptable. Commercial machines fail just as much as domestic ones. It's just that you have a support network of technicians who can service the commercial machines quickly with their slew of generic parts.


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## geezr

apicius9 said:


> ..........That said, I just watched the little video on the Alex duetto II at Chriscoffee.com and this has to be the most beautiful thing I ever saw. Well, at least when it comes to coffee machines. Total overkill for someone who makes maybe 3-4 shots a day, though. Just like owning a $500 kitchen knife is overkill  Stefan


:coolsign::coffeelots::coffeelove::yeahthat:
but - footprint too big


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## Carl

Sadly, I just go to Dutch Brothers, but at least I can afford the payments.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

chokobo said:


> Based on my previous experience owning an Alex Duetto II. Pretty much all the Italian machines are made with off the shelf parts made by ageing industry. The QC on the the parts itself is the annoying part. Maybe I got a lemon but it annoyed me so much with rattles, reliability - the pump is vertically on top of the motor (I had a motor failure too) and overshoot on the PID. With conservative settings on the PID, steam recovery was subI'm all up for honouring the history in Italian espresso, but in terms of quality I would think that only La Marzocco or Bosco are really that decent over there. The States on the other hand have some innovative stuff in Synesso and Slayer Espresso.



I have to disagree as well, Italy still is the king of espresso machines. While a few companies are making a dent, it's just that, a dent. My Viebemme Domobar Super is a tank, love the thing. Reality is, pick any major coffee shop and see what is behind the counter, 95% of the time it's an Italian made machine. With that said, I hope more competition from other countries pushes the prices down so I can try a double boiler at a reasonable price.


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## chokobo

Ok, I think I just expected too much from my Italian machine. All relative, it just didn't meet my expectations.

Actually, if you look at most of the speciality coffee cafes in Melbourne or Sydney, they are mainly using 30% La Marzocco, 50% Synesso (5 Senses do an amazing job of marketing and distribution here) and 20% KvdW and Slayer machines. Rarely do you see another "Italian" machine other than the LaMar in these speciality cafes. Fair enough if you go to your local strip you may see more Wega's, Victoria Arduino's, La San Marco's or San Marino's, but they are more associated with places where coffee isn't the focus and generally serve Italian-style choc bombs with stale grinded coffee from full dosers. Can the other Italian machines make good coffee - absolutely, but the other brands mentioned above in the speciality cafes offer more control and consistency to the barista.


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## Lars

chokobo said:


> Ok, I think I just expected too much from my Italian machine.



You are comparing your prosumer Alex to commercial machines like La Marzocco, Synesso and KVDW. Not fair imo.

Lars


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## apicius9

Aarrgghhh:slaphead::angry1::doublebanghead: I just looked on Craigslist and someone sold 2 Mazzers from closing down a coffee shop 3 days ago. Now, does anybody know what grinder this is?





Stefan


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## wenus2

Looks like a Rossi RR45, I would generally consider it a good deal at 250.
It is stepped with rather large steps though. Commercial quality, you see a lot of them branded for Astra.


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## chokobo

Lars said:


> You are comparing your prosumer Alex to commercial machines like La Marzocco, Synesso and KVDW. Not fair imo.
> 
> Lars



My point was that prosumer Italian machines are not as good as they are hyped are to be or should be for their price point - imo anyway. Either way they will produce good coffee. More so the grinder, beans and most importantly the barista will be the defining factor.

Stefan, I believe that is one of the commonly rebranded Italian grinders, specifically the Rossi RR45 grinder. Rebranded also as the Nuova Simonelli MDX and Eureka MDM. Not sure exactly which model it is, so would be good to check it out in person so that you can check on burr size, but you should be able to source new burrs quite easily.


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## apicius9

Thanks guys, would that be a step up from my doserless Rancilio Rocky? The seller didn't find any name (but Made in Italy) on it but she also doesn't know anything about it - bought a business that came with it. She says it runs smoothly and the asking price is more than reasonable, so maybe I play around and replace the burrs if necessary. Or would I be better off with the Rocky?

Stefan


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## chokobo

Should be somewhat Super Jolly quality if 64mm burrs? Apart from it not being stepless, it should still be step up in grind quality from the Rocky.


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## SameGuy

The machines at all the Virgin Lounges I've visited (Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne) use Rancilios. The original Gregan's on Pitt in Central, Sydney uses (used, when I was there in 2009 and again in 2010) a LM. I tend to see more LMs and Rancilios than any other brand. I have yet to see a Synesso up here.


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## chokobo

Err I meant speciality 3rd wave cafes. Melbourne - eg. St Ali's, Seven Seeds, Patricia's Coffee Brewers, Clement Coffee, Auction Rooms, Proud Mary, etc. Sydney - Coffee Alchemy, Mecca Espresso, Sample Coffee Bar, Toby's Estate, Reuben Hills, Single Origin Roasters, etc.


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## wenus2

apicius9 said:


> Thanks guys, would that be a step up from my doserless Rancilio Rocky? The seller didn't find any name (but Made in Italy) on it but she also doesn't know anything about it - bought a business that came with it. She says it runs smoothly and the asking price is more than reasonable, so maybe I play around and replace the burrs if necessary. Or would I be better off with the Rocky?
> 
> Stefan



If I were Starting up I might choose the Rossi, but I wouldn't upgrade from the Rocky to get it. The cost/benefit isn't there.
If you upgrade go stepless and keep an eye out for these brands in particular: Mazzer, Macap, Compak.


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## WildBoar

Stefan, just be patient and keep checking CL (and ebay). SJs come up all the time.


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## SameGuy

chokobo said:


> Err I meant speciality 3rd wave cafes. Melbourne - eg. St Ali's, Seven Seeds, Patricia's Coffee Brewers, Clement Coffee, Auction Rooms, Proud Mary, etc. Sydney - Coffee Alchemy, Mecca Espresso, Sample Coffee Bar, Toby's Estate, Reuben Hills, Single Origin Roasters, etc.


Hehehe. Thanks for the rounded lists. Last summer (your winter -- it was effing cold!) in Melbourne I managed to get to Patricia and a couple others in and near Little Bourque, Aix in Centre place and a few more. I guess I'm old-fashioned, but one of the best milk drinks I had was (not surprisingly) at Brunetti's in Carlton. Atmosphere may have had a lot to do with my perception, though. LOL


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## SameGuy

PS: Tiamo 2 was one of the best trattoria meals I've had outside Italy, while T1 next door had a very authentic espresso bar experience.


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## chokobo

Haha yes winter is too cold here. I suspect you like the traditional Italian espresso then. Coffee is really exciting at the moment as coffee cultivating countries are really improving practises, processing techniques and speciality coffee companies are directly investing in the farms to enable better and more efficient production. What has been found is that other than the nuts, choc bomb, toffee or malt that you normally associate with Italian espresso - which still uses a lot of cheap Robusta beans, rather than Arabica, you can get a lot of different fruit flavours through the different methods of extraction. Melbourne coffee from these speciality cafes are especially geared more towards these fruit flavours which also means lighter roasts. If you're drinking a lot of milk drinks using their espresso blends, this doesn't particularly work all that well for the old-school drinkers as there isn't enough of the choc type flavours to really cut through the milk. All thats left is an eminently balanced milk drink which sometimes doesn't have enough kick. Everyone's palate is different but if you can next time, definitely try all the coffee black.. from the espresso machines either as short blacks or a long black if you really need to. The flavours of some of these beans we're importing now are really fantastic, especially without the milk to kill it all.

Or, ideally, you could try the filter brews from all the places listed above. Filter allows for more delicate flavours as espresso with its 9 bar of water pressure tends to destroy them. You need time to drink them though as you need to let them cool to room temperature to really let the flavours bloom. Proud Mary imports some really special Panama geisha beans which are awesome through filter. Or you can try filter from our very own World Coffee Brewing champion 2012, Matt Perger from St Ali's.

Thanks for the tip. Will try it out next time I'm in Carlton. Try out D.O.C. Pizza there for an authentic Neopolitan style pizza, or Cecconi's and Lupino in the city for pasta/mains.


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## SameGuy

Next time you're up in Brissie, try Alen's Espresso on George Street near the Roma transit centre. Good espresso.

FWIW, I'm a straight espresso drinker more often than not. I've added your lists to my Dropbox and will check them out next time I swing 'round (early next year I suspect).


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## rahimlee54

Bought a grinder!


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## Lars

Thats a very nice grinder..

Lars


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

A pourover station a buddy of mine just made for me. I think it's pretty nice...




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## apicius9

Nice setup, Jason!

O.k. grinders again: What about an Anfim Caimano with commercial use but new burrs? Worth $350 with a cracked hopper and a missing doser lid? Any thoughts?

Stefan


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## Lars

apicius9 said:


> What about an Anfim Caimano with commercial use but new burrs? Worth $350 with a cracked hopper and a missing doser lid? Any thoughts?
> 
> Stefan



Stefan,

I am not a big fan of stepped grinders for espresso, but I like that it runs slower than the Super Jolly that also uses 64mm flat burrs and is in the same price range.

Maybe you could take it for a test drive, to see if it works ok for you..

Lars


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## Toriss

Well I would like to have similar items for my house because I am looking for huge shopping for my newly built house. I watched some splendid variety there at Hsn using discounts from http://www.ezcouponsearch.com/HSN-Coupons_cm_607.aspx and that worked nicely but I will be looking to see more coupons for my next shopping. If anyone having some opinion about better store with more quality items, then please let me know.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

I doubt you are going to get anything of quality on HSN, but I am a buy once, cry once type of guy. Go to home-barista.com if you want to know more about getting a quality set-up for coffee. You don't have to spend a fortune, but if you get into espresso be prepared to spend some coin unless you get deals on craigslist or ebay. Sweetmarias.com is my favorite place to shop for coffee, but there are other good vendors.


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## rahimlee54

1 week and a quick training session with the guy I bought my setup from and I got a pretty decent cup/shot going here.







I did a little plus sign before I just plopped it on top, I'll have to work on that. Thanks for the input guys.


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## wenus2

Jason, I'm jealous of your drip station. That's pretty slick lookin, ceramic V60 and all.


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## SameGuy

Nothing new to add, except that: along with roasting some damn fine espresso and decaf espresso (I ordered 5 lbs. of each again), Jeff at Red Bird is one of the friendliest guys with whom you could ever do business. I have to order by phone because the site isn't set up to accept non-US Paypal payments. Damn fine coffee!


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## Johnny.B.Good

Anyone else catch the premiere of "Dangerous Grounds" on Travel Channel tonight?

I thought it was pretty interesting and well done. Pretty sure the man knows and loves his coffee!

http://www.travelchannel.com/tv-shows/dangerous-grounds/articles/dangerous-grounds

(I was watching the final episode of "No Reservations," and this came on afterwards.)


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## joetbn

IMHO the Baratza Virtuoso Preciso is the best grinder for home use at any price. The only thing that more expensive commercial grinders do better is high volume, and they are actually much worse at low volume home use. The preciso leaves only about 0.2 grams of coffee in its chute after grinding, other home grinders, even the more expensive Vario by the same company leave over a gram, and commercial grinders like Mazzer leave up to 7 or 8 grams. That means when you grind for a cup you either have to first grind and throw away a few grams of coffee or have a significant percentage of stale grounds in your brew. It is also extremely versatile, I have never seen another grinder that is exceptional at espresso, and can also do a coarse grind for french press with almost no fines. The vario grinds very well for espresso too, but is no where near as good on the coarse end or even in the middle for drip or pour over. For me, espresso aside, the ultimate home coffee setup is a Preciso and a Hario V60 dripper. People think I'm nuts for telling them to buy a $300 grinder and a $15 coffee maker, but the results are infinitely better than using a $15 grinder and a $300 coffee maker. As far as home roasting goes, it seems like a fascinating and rewarding hobby, but I would rather buy beans from a great local roaster that has spent his whole life perfecting the art of roasting, and travels around the world hand picking beans from individual farmers. I will never be able to produce roasts of that quality at home, not even close. Oh, I do not work for a coffee equipment maker or store, this is all based on personal experience and years of research and tasting.


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## joetbn

This analogy just came to me, using a blade grinder is the coffee grinding equivalent of using an electric knife sharpener on the back of a can opener. If you aren't willing or able to spend money on a good burr grinder get a Hario Skerton or mini mill hand grinder. Or do a 3mil dice on your beans with a good usuba. :knife:


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## mano

joetbn, what other burr grinders have you personally compared the Baratza Virtuoso Preciso to? At $700 the Mazzer isn't a consideration for a drip home brew. At around $170 there's the Kitchenaide ProLine and the basic Capresso burr grinders will get a great cup of coffee.


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## chokobo

Not sure that the Preciso is the best at any price? Lots of others have talked about the advantages of larger conical burrs and commercial grinders - more clarity in flavours, greater forgiveness factor in grind adjustment, fluffier grinds leading to less channelling/distribution issues, slower rpm grinding due to larger motor (the Preciso can heat up the grinds significantly when grinding large filter doses), etc. There are quite a few home-friendly grinders out there which imo are better than the Preciso - Versalab, Malk K30, or even the Elecktra Nino which retains 4 grams but essentially rivals the mighty Mazzer Robur. Hand grinder users should rejoice at the new HG One grinders which are available to pre-order. That being said I'm sure the Preciso is awesome for all the reasons you mentioned above and easily a contender for best home grinder under $1k :biggrin: Haha would love to see a video of someone attempting to brew coffee with the 3mm dice of beans!


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## WildBoar

It's pretty easy to get trhe grinds out of a Mazzer chute if you don't leave the 'protector' in place. You can use the end of a chopstick, or even a pastry brush. But I actually get most of it out by dropping the tamper in the throat of the hopper opening on top (I do not have the hopper in place). All it take is about a half inch drop. The air pressure pushes out the bulk of the grinds. And that works even with the protector left in place.

There are always Mazzers for sale on eBay, and sometime on Craigslist. You should be able to score a good used one in the $350 range.


----------



## joetbn

I have directly compared the Preciso to a Mazzer SJ on a Marzocco machine in a very good small cafe with 3 pro baristas, same beans, same machine. Our conclusion was that the SJ grinds were indeed a tiny bit fluffier and definitely better distributed but with careful technique and a bit more time spent on distribution (5-6 seconds tops) the shot quality was nearly identical. There was as much variation shot to shot with either grinder as between the two. In a commercial environment those 5-6 seconds per shot are critical, but not at home. Grind speed was also about a second or two longer per shot on the Preciso. The new gearbox on the preciso slows the burs down to the point where there is no heat problem. For press pot grinding the Mazzer simply didn't even come close, way more fines than the preciso and noticeably more sludge in the cup. There is a different commercial grinder in the shop that they use for pour overs and press pots, I can't remember the name of it but it was great at the coarse grinds and couldn't do espresso at all. My point is that high end commercial grinders were designed with a different set of criteria, and no barista would even think about using a preciso all day in a cafe, but for making a couple shots a day at home the preciso is 99% as good, a third the price, and a third or less the size, and better suited to different grinds. 

That being said, preference in gear of any kind and what is "the best" is ultimately up to the individual users experience, and there are probably other grinders in the $1,000 and up price range that are better suited for home use than the Mazzer SJ I used. I have never had the opportunity to try Versalab, Malk K30, or the Elecktra Nino. I will therefore retract my "best at any price" comment and say probably the best under $1,500.

At the lower price end, I had a Mr. Coffee branded bur grinder that was I think $60.00 and still have a Capressio Infinity that is $100 (I leave that one for my roomate that likes dark oily beans that I won't let near my grinder) And while they are both way better than a blade grinder neither will do espresso at all, both leave a ton of fines at press pot, but both are ok at drip. I can definitely taste a difference in a pour over though, the preciso gives a much sweeter cup.


----------



## Duckfat

joetbn said:


> IMHO the Baratza Virtuoso Preciso is the best grinder for home use at any price. The only thing that more expensive commercial grinders do better is high volume, and they are actually much worse at low volume home use. The preciso leaves only about 0.2 grams of coffee in its chute after grinding, other home grinders, even the more expensive Vario by the same company leave over a gram, and commercial grinders like Mazzer leave up to 7 or 8 grams. That means when you grind for a cup you either have to first grind and throw away a few grams of coffee or have a significant percentage of stale grounds in your brew. It is also extremely versatile, I have never seen another grinder that is exceptional at espresso, and can also do a coarse grind for french press with almost no fines. The vario grinds very well for espresso too, but is no where near as good on the coarse end or even in the middle for drip or pour over. For me, espresso aside, the ultimate home coffee setup is a Preciso and a Hario V60 dripper. People think I'm nuts for telling them to buy a $300 grinder and a $15 coffee maker, but the results are infinitely better than using a $15 grinder and a $300 coffee maker. As far as home roasting goes, it seems like a fascinating and rewarding hobby, but I would rather buy beans from a great local roaster that has spent his whole life perfecting the art of roasting, and travels around the world hand picking beans from individual farmers. I will never be able to produce roasts of that quality at home, not even close. Oh, I do not work for a coffee equipment maker or store, this is all based on personal experience and years of research and tasting.





+1. I've had a lot of grinders and after using the Preciso for several months it is freakin awesome. Even more so when you consider the price point. Here's a link to a very detailed review that may be of interest. Did some one mention Breville??? I can't post what I really think of those but I will say I killed three of them in a year. I'll leave a link to a review I did on that for another forum.

Dave


http://coffeegeek.com/proreviews/quickshot/baratzavirtuosopreciso/details

http://www.cheftalk.com/products/breville-bcg800xl-smart-grinder/reviews/4072


----------



## WildBoar

joetbn, you are right -- Mazzers are great for espresso, but really not the best for pour-over, drip, etc. I'm thinking about a grinder for coffee at some point, but will never, ever give up the Mazzer. But my pro-Mazzer comments belong in the Espresso thread, and not the Coffee thread :O


----------



## joetbn

WildBoar, your pro Mazzer comments are welcome here, to me espresso IS coffee, elevated to it's highest potential.


----------



## chokobo

Fwiw there are places like Coava Coffee brewing filter coffee exclusively through a Mazzer Kony by choice. I use mine for both espresso and filter, and it works quite well. Maybe not well enough to stop me getting a dedicated Ditting, Bunn, Tanzania or über grinder more so for the laziness factor of not having to change my espresso grind settings.

What's tasting good for you guys at the moment? I'm loving the Panama Geisha Mario Carnival at the moment. Absolutely stunning coffee!


----------



## jmforge

Waiting for the "i don't drink burnt coffee" insults to start. :lol2:


joetbn said:


> WildBoar, your pro Mazzer comments are welcome here, to me espresso IS coffee, elevated to it's highest potential.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

******* said:


> Waiting for the "i don't drink burnt coffee" insults to start. :lol2:



No one said Starbucks did they? :groucho:


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

So got 5 lbs of Red Bird in the other day, let it rest for two days and froze the rest. In the cup:




[/IMG]

Steamed up some whole milk for a cap. I really pay attention to my microfoam, 75%+ shops don't know how to steam milk, this cup was 1/5 full and now it's a 3/5 full:




[/IMG]




[/IMG]

Of course, after all that I was multitasking and didn't even attempt latte art:




[/IMG]

Still tasted good


----------



## wenus2

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I really pay attention to my microfoam, 75%+ shops don't know how to steam milk



Thats an optimistic figure if I ever saw one. 

Looks good J, thanks for the pics. 
Almost enough inspiration to get me to tear into my poor broken Oscar and replace the SSR.
Merry Xmas.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Very optimistic, but it's Christmas eve so what the heck!


----------



## rahimlee54

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Very optimistic, but it's Christmas eve so what the heck!



Do you have any tips on steaming the milk, I usually don't stretch mine that much but seeing your post I figured I would try. The milk turned out nice and creamy but I didn't have enough on top for any sort of art so I thought my technique was a bit off. I obviously need a little more practice, just want to make sure I practice correctly. I think tonight's caps had an some of the best mouth feel though and that is important.

Thanks
Jared


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

First find a good milk. Some milk is treated with (can't remember the term) and doesn't foam well. Not all milks microfoam the same and the fresher the better. You probably already know, but the higher the fat the easier to microfoam. Other than that make sure the milk is very cold, even put the container in the freezer until you get good. I usually stretch from 70F-80F, then dunk the tip deep in the milk at an angle. I also tilt the container so I get a good whirlpool going. I usually finish off at 140F-150 depending on how old the milk is. Swirl in cup while base is on counter. If you get a "marshmellow" top, you stretched the milk too much and consider dunking earlier in the temp. 

It's a learned skill, and one that needs to be practiced. If I hadn't made microfoam in a month or so, I sometimes make mistakes.


----------



## miketayl0r

Just got a Keurig for Christmas.  

Perfect for a cook constantly on the go


----------



## rahimlee54

Right before I finished it off, a good way to end a day at work.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Looking forward to this coming in. All is green, I will roast.

Jamaica Blue Mountain Clifton Mount - 2lbs
Arianna Farms Ono Kona - Kona Festival Winner - 2lbs 
Panama Carmen Estate - 5lbs
Panama Esmeralda Boquete Geisha -1lb

Only about $135 for total 10lbs. I LOVE Carmen Estate. Looking forward to see how it stands up to the others. It's been a few years since I had some Kona, looking forward to it. Of course the crown jewel is the Esmeralda, albeit it's not the auction version.


----------



## Lars

The first time I tasted Esmaralda it really did my head in.
It was in a cupping session and I almost thought it was a cup of tea when I smelled it :biggrin:

Have fun roasting..

Lars


----------



## Duckfat

Let us know how the Kona turns out Jason. It sounds like you should be all set for at least a few weeks.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Thanks, should be in tomorrow. I plan on roasting some Kona first. I've always had a love affair...


----------



## mano

How much time does it take and how big a pita is roasting your own? What's the best home roaster?


----------



## WildBoar

mano said:


> How much time does it take and how big a pita is roasting your own? What's the best home roaster?


Your avatar is perfect, 'cause you are about to get drawn down into the rabbit hole :biggrin:


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Best roaster is an open ended question. Best roaster for a newbie is a Behmor. Lots of ways to roast, just depends on how deep your pockets go and how much effort you want to put in.


----------



## HHH Knives

Hi guys and Gals. Im getting ready to roast my first beans!! I placed a order for a few pounds and am excited about trying this. Yet after reading some of this thread. I have a feeling its gona become yet another addiction, that costs much money and trial and error to get to where I can get constant results and a GREAT coffee! Yet the rewards will be great, and the coffee even better! So Im ready! :cool2:

If I may ask you guys a few questions along the way. I would appreciate any pointers and help ya might give! :thumbsup:

Heres the plan so far. Get beans... CHECK. I have Guatemala beans, Ethiopia, Colombia, and a French Roast Blend. Heading this way, expected first part of the week. 

Use a air popper (popcorn) :laughat: to roast the first few batches. also plan to par roast a batch, as well as might try and Bake some? 

Finaly after cooling them and letting them rest. Grind and Enjoy. ( I have a one button grinder at the moment ) That is soon to be replaced im sure! :wink:

I think the first or next step would be to purchase a entry level roaster. And more coffee.  

Im reading reviews, and searching the net and found many choices and options good and bad reviews on the same roasters. and was pointed right back to my popcorn maker. lol 
Have you tried or used your air popper to roast beans? if so, how did it do? What roasters would be recommended under 200.00 that actually works well and would make dark roast?


----------



## HHH Knives

Well the beans arrived this morning and I roasted 2 batched, Here are some images. 

Any advise as to how long I have to let them rest B4 grinding and brewing would be appreciated.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Looks like a good roast. You will find air popper roasting and drum roasting will create a slightly different taste (if you decide to get a drum roaster). Resting is a bit subjective, and the usual recommendation can depend on the bean...Sweet Marias and Roastmasters will many times give you recommendations. I'd say at least 24 hours. A fun thing to do is to try it at every time interval i.e. right after roasting, 24 hours, 48 hours, etc. You can really learn about the beans and their maturity/flavor potential. Just remember that the CO2 release will be much higher the closer to the roast, so a lot of blooming will happen (grinds will "bloom" when you put hot water over them). Usually a well rested bean will have minimal blooming, but just enough to prove it is still fresh. Some roasts, particurally espresso roasts, recommend resting for 5-7 days to get the right flavor profile out of them. 

I think you will find roasting beans a science, much like baking is a science. People can get real techy with gadgets and DIY set-ups in order to be able to repeat roasts. Seems like you have the ability to do well with it, keep it up!


----------



## HHH Knives

So far its been alot of fun, after roasting a couple pounds with the air popper. I was HOOKED and went ahead and picked up a Drum Roaster and a Burr grinder!  Looking at a new brewer at the moment! 

Having a blast! 
Randy


----------



## apicius9

Very cool, when I grow up I want one of those...

Stefan


----------



## Dieter01

Great to see other people roasting in here as well 

Randy, did you like the result? Looks like quite a dark roast by the oily sheen.


----------



## Eric

Randy: Looks great! I have been roasting for about a year with my hottop, another drum roaster. I too love it. I imaging you have found sweet marias, but if not check out their website. If you are looking for an esspreso machine, check out wholelattelove.com. How do you like your Behmor? Anyway good luck and enjoy. ERIC


----------



## HHH Knives

Dieter, Im having a blast trying new beans from around the globe! 

The coffee was a little over roasted.. OK maybe alot for most peoples tastes. But I mixed it with another batch that was a bit under roasted in my opinion. and come up with a great combination that really has a deep rich taste.  

Main thing is, Im enjoying my coffee more then ever. The new roaster is doing a great job. and Im having great success at doing 1lb at a time, which I read was not something this machine did well. I added a photo of the last 1 lb batch I roasted.

Eric. I have found Sweet Maria's and thats where I ordered my first beans from. I got the Bemore at Roastmasters.com They had free shipping!! and sent along a 10.00 coupon of my next order and 8 pounds of beans.  

Now Im hooked. lol. I think the next purchase will be a better coffee maker. Im open to suggestions. Was hoping to stay under 150.00 for it. But after looking at the fancy ones on the coffee sites. I see thats gona be hard to do. 

God Bless.


----------



## Duckfat

Just grab a French Press Randy. It doesn't have to be expensive. :cool2:


----------



## HHH Knives

Dave, I seen them and was actually planning on getting the Aeropress. (I think its called) single cup press that also doubles to make espresso. Yet would love one that makes 10 cups of coffee. Ill have a look tonight and see what I find. Thanks


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Like Dave said a French press.


----------



## SameGuy

I know some of you have way more elaborate setups and top-shelf grinders and machines (oh, how I yearn for an Andreja Premium), but does anyone have experience with *Hi-Tech Espresso* in LA? 

I've long wanted to PID my Silvia and was ready to send my cash to Auber Instruments, but I wonder if Hi-Tech's rants about (against) Auber hold water. Hi-Tech won't sell the PID kit, I'd have to ship them my Silvia and let them do the mod. Even so, that ~$300 investment should help my $600 toy play more like a $1500 vibe machine until I can justify the big upgrades (I'll need a top-shelf grinder before I even consider something superior to the Silvia).

Any thoughts?


----------



## Dieter01

Randy, If you like a more clean cup you should also consider a Hario V60 (or similar). Great coffee!


----------



## Eric

Just roasted some Kenya! Hottop. Took it to FC. View attachment 13478


----------



## HHH Knives

The Kenya looks good Eric. I had a few pound of it and its now gone  I roast mine a bit darker.

OK. I have a question. Im ready to invest in a coffee pot. Yep its time. Suggestions welcomed. 

a few things I would like. Carafe pot. low profile. 
a few things I dont need . Brew timers. digital settings. 


Please give me some input. 
Randy


----------



## Duckfat

Randy did you find any Morels this spring? I never did get out to look like I had hoped. 
For Coffee I think you were right on track with either an Aeropress, FP or Hario. Heck you can buy all three for a fraction of what many electronic coffee contraptions cost and they will all work better. If you want a carafe just but a separate carafe or make fresh coffee. 

Dave


----------



## HHH Knives

We did get out and found a good batch of Shrooms. And as always . Enjoyed every bite! Im gona try and take a walk this weekend to a location I have found the Large white morels. heres a picture of the first finds of the season. 

Im all about doing what you suggested. But my other half wants to be able to brew a pot of coffee. So Im looking for a pore over style pot at the moment. Has anyone tried Cuasanart? I found a nice looking set up with a grind and brew feature. Where the grinder is built into the pot.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Randy,

Don't buy the Cuisinart. The grind and brew sounds convenient, but what do you do when it breaks? I had one before I became knowledgable about coffee and it sucked. This is why I don't like multi-taskers in electronics, too many things can go wrong and affect the whole thing. Plus the grinder sucks and the water doesn't get hot enough to extract properly. I have a Technivorm brewer I rarely use, but if I were to buy again I would get this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005YQZNO8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


----------



## mpukas

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Randy,
> 
> Don't buy the Cuisinart. The grind and brew sounds convenient, but what do you do when it breaks? I had one before I became knowledgable about coffee and it sucked. This is why I don't like multi-taskers in electronics, too many things can go wrong and affect the whole thing. Plus the grinder sucks and the water doesn't get hot enough to extract properly. I have a Technivorm brewer I rarely use, but if I were to buy again I would get this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005YQZNO8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



Why would you get this Bonavita over the Techivorm?


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

mpukas said:


> Why would you get this Bonavita over the Techivorm?



Easy, half the price and SCAA certified. The only reason I got the Technivorm (at the time) is because it was one of the few home machines that was SCAA certified and could count on it to extract the coffee at the right temp.


----------



## jalanpipes

Hey guys,

I'm new to the forum, and was delighted to just discover this gem of a thread. One of my other hobbies/passions is coffee. I've been roasting for 11 years and have gone through a ton of machines and grinders in that time. We just remodeled our kitchen a few years ago and designed it around our Elektra T1 espresso machine. I'm currently using that machine with a Mazzer mini, use an Aeropress with a Zassenhaus grinder when I'm traveling, and roast with a Behmor. Here's a shot I posted to instagram of some latte art in my morning cup.






Glad to be here and I look forward to the discussion.

Jeff


----------



## jalanpipes

AFKitchenKnivesGuy: I'm curious about the Bonavita. I've not used it before, and don't read much on drip coffees since I drink mostly espresso, so wasn't aware of it. How's it stack up against the Technivorm? Is it a simple matter of the water being precisely set at the optimum temperature or is it customizable like the Behmor Brazen? I've not used the Brazen before either, but saw an early product demo at our local roasting club. The owner/inventor, Joe, is part of the group and showed it to us all before taking it to SCAA for its debut. But, I had to leave before tasting anything from it. I've contemplated getting a new drip machine for variety and the Brazen was going to be the top choice, but if the Bonavita is recommended it may be worth consideration.

Thanks.

Jeff


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

jalanpipes said:


> AFKitchenKnivesGuy: I'm curious about the Bonavita. I've not used it before, and don't read much on drip coffees since I drink mostly espresso, so wasn't aware of it. How's it stack up against the Technivorm? Is it a simple matter of the water being precisely set at the optimum temperature or is it customizable like the Behmor Brazen? I've not used the Brazen before either, but saw an early product demo at our local roasting club. The owner/inventor, Joe, is part of the group and showed it to us all before taking it to SCAA for its debut. But, I had to leave before tasting anything from it. I've contemplated getting a new drip machine for variety and the Brazen was going to be the top choice, but if the Bonavita is recommended it may be worth consideration.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Jeff



Just to be clear, i've never used it. When I am not drinking espresso based drinks, I am usually a french press guy. I don't see much difference with it compare to the Technivorm other than one being hand built versus machine built. The Brazen is another good choice (I have a Behmor myself and it's good quality for price). We are starting to see a lot of great options for home brewers as technology in the industry becomes normalized, and the prices in turn are coming down. When I bought the Technivorm many years ago, there wasn't many options for a properly brewed drip machine. Considering the price, either the Brazen or Bonavita seem a good choice.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

jalanpipes said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm new to the forum, and was delighted to just discover this gem of a thread. One of my other hobbies/passions is coffee. I've been roasting for 11 years and have gone through a ton of machines and grinders in that time. We just remodeled our kitchen a few years ago and designed it around our Elektra T1 espresso machine. I'm currently using that machine with a Mazzer mini, use an Aeropress with a Zassenhaus grinder when I'm traveling, and roast with a Behmor. Here's a shot I posted to instagram of some latte art in my morning cup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to be here and I look forward to the discussion.
> 
> Jeff



Nice latte art!


----------



## JPizzzle

Cool thread. I've been dying to get a rocket espresso cellini, but the price is a bit above my budget and there are no deals on these guys


----------



## HHH Knives

Thanks guys for the input. I am going to buy the Bonavita.. Ill let ya all know what think of it once It arrives and I have had a chance to brew some coffee through it. 

I also secured a Bunn which will be for summer camping trips and a backup. Just in case. 

Blessings
Randy


----------



## vinster

For you guys who like latte art, here's a link to the best howto videos I've found on the topic:

http://www.howcast.com/guides/1067-How-to-Do-Latte-Art

Unfortunately, the series doesn't really address my biggest weakness, which is the ability to regularly create microfoam. I was doing well on my old espresso machine (La Spaz vivaldi), but with the newer beefier setup, I always get air bubbles.


----------



## Basecadet

Great thread, hadn't noticed it before. 

Vinster, thanks for that link, excellent videos. I had a lot of trouble getting good microfoam on my Pasquini Livia 90 when I first got it, one thing that helped was changing out the stock nozzle. The original nozzle had four larger holes which made controlling the steam flow difficult and resulted in lots of bubbles, the new one I picked up had 2 much smaller holes and that gave me much more control on the flow and my mircofoam improved greatly.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Let me know your thoughts on it Randy.


----------



## Flawless Victory

Just picked this up off Craigslist for $45 I think it will be a nice upgrade from my Mr. Coffee model.


----------



## Flawless Victory

Well I guess I cant Figure out how to imbed from Flickr Links Below. 


http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8951194238/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8949991875/in/photostream/


----------



## SpikeC

Score!


----------



## Duckfat

Flawless Victory said:


> Just picked this up off Craigslist for $45 I think it will be a nice upgrade from my Mr. Coffee model.




Now there's the under statement of the year. As long as it's working well that was a smoking good deal!

Dave


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

I think your screen name indicates my feeling.


----------



## jalanpipes

That'll do, for sure!


----------



## Flawless Victory

Ya I might have hit a little gold mine. While getting info about the Grinder as her Ad had no pictures I discovered that she misspelled Esspreso and did not know if the grinder was a doser or not. So she seemed to be a novice in this area at best. When asked why she was selling it her father is aparently a coffe fanatic and just hands down his stuff when he gets new ones. Not Sure what he has now but this http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/baratza-vario-burr-grinder-with-upgraded-h2-display she had on her counter in her Kitchen. So I requested that she rember my number next time she gets a hand me down so I can be third in line. :groucho:


----------



## Duckfat

The Baratza grinders are very nice. I haven't looked back since I bought the Preciso.

Dave


----------



## vinster

I had that Baratza Vario for a year but found it to be inconsistent from shot to shot. It worked OK if you kept the hopper full of beans but when you wanted to dose one shot at a time, my shots were all over the place. The last straw was when I started having static clumping issues. I tried to clean everything but no luck resolving the static. I then bought a used Super Jolly off CL for about $125 bucks and the difference was like night and day. Shot times stayed consistent and I was happy. But... It wasn't long before I got "curious" about a a grinder with larger burrs, so I got a Mazzer Major. To be honest, I cant tell much of a difference between the SJ and the Major.... So if you're serious about espresso, I highly recommend a SJ.


----------



## rahimlee54

Maybe I can score a baratza to play around with some drip or pour over coffee. I have never really drank many types of coffee, just went straight to espresso. Only one grinder as well. Nice score there.


----------



## Duckfat

If you are a dedicated espresso drinker probably any of the multi-grinders are going to disappoint compared to the Mazzer, Rocky etc. However if you want a machine that can jump from FP to pour over and still get good results for some espresso machines then the Baratza Preciso is a very good option. What you get out of the Vario depends on the burr set you use. I thought about going that route but I there was a very detailed article on line that concluded the precisco actually is more consistent and costs a lot less. 

Dave


----------



## compaddict

I tried the Vario-W and found that it would never go back to the same settings.. Vario indeed. 
I ended up with a big Kitchenaid and kitted it to work with high end burrs.
Much better! When I turn the knob.. Things change!


----------



## HHH Knives

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Let me know your thoughts on it Randy.



I received the Bonavita last week and wanted to give it a few days of use testing and tasting.. Before I reported on it.. 

Overall. I am IMPRESSED! I have recently had some of the worst luck with coffee pots. in the last 6 months I have went through 4 pots. this makes number 5. I wish I would of started with this pot when I first started roasting beans.  

My new Bonavita BV1800 makes a great cup of coffee, and by far the best cup I have experienced at home. My wife also has stated more then once this week about the coffee being the best she has ever had. 

Thanks so much for the recommendation. 
Randy


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

HHH Knives said:


> I received the Bonavita last week and wanted to give it a few days of use testing and tasting.. Before I reported on it..
> 
> Overall. I am IMPRESSED! I have recently had some of the worst luck with coffee pots. in the last 6 months I have went through 4 pots. this makes number 5. I wish I would of started with this pot when I first started roasting beans.
> 
> My new Bonavita BV1800 makes a great cup of coffee, and by far the best cup I have experienced at home. My wife also has stated more then once this week about the coffee being the best she has ever had.
> 
> Thanks so much for the recommendation.
> Randy



Now don't be stirring up my AD! My current list of coffee toys will likely last me forever but that is definately the one to get right now. I wish more people would learn the buy once, cry once mantra!


----------



## HHH Knives

Im just really pleased with this coffee pot and wish I would of spent the cash to begin with rather then wasting all them fresh roasted beans on inferior brewers! 

Live and learn.  

Blessings
Randy


----------



## SameGuy

Finally getting around to replacing my crappy Krups grinder with a real espresso grinder after having found a decent deal for a Vario on eBay.

Vario users: what should my initial settings for espresso be before I start dialling in? I have just received a fresh 5 lb. bag of Red Bird (roasted Friday), and will be pulling with an unmodded Silvia through a VST basket. I plan to PID Miss Silvia soon.


----------



## tripleq

I have a Silvia and an older Mokita machine (which is running strong after 12 years). I grind my coffee with a Rocky grinder. Despite the great coffee these machines make I find myself turning to my Nespresso machine a lot just for the convenience factor.


----------



## DerSnap

ECM Espresso Machine myself with Mazzer Mini Mod B grinder 64mm Burrs.
Did a quick test shot video yesterday of it and usually with a triple basket.
Got the VST basket on the way.

Coffee is a big love of mine, right up there with cocktails, and cooking.
Yes knives are part of that cooking thing 

[video=youtube;pdNzBV0zqyw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdNzBV0zqyw[/video]


----------



## SameGuy

I did a couple of test pulls this morning with the factory-recommended starting point of 1-K on the Vario. My usual 19.5 g in a Synesso 18 g basket choked the stock (but fairly well-used) Silvia. 23 g in the VST triple yielded a slightly bitter, powdery shot but a pretty decent cone with the naked PF. Dialled the micro back to O and dosed the same and the VST blonded a bit early, but there was no powder. I'll play some more this afternoon, but MAN what a difference from a cheap burr grinder!


----------



## vinster

I had a Baratza Vario for about a year. It worked pretty well, as long as you had some beans in the hopper. It was horribly inconsistent if you were dosing one shot at a time. If you use the manufacturer's instructions to calibrate your zero point, I think I was usually grinding around 1 notch down on the left (macro) side and about a third of the way down in the micro adjustment. If I changed beans, I normally only had to change the micro adjustment up or down a few notches. it was very rare that I had to move the macro lever.


----------



## DerSnap

SameGuy said:


> I did a couple of test pulls this morning with the factory-recommended starting point of 1-K on the Vario. My usual 19.5 g in a Synesso 18 g basket choked the stock (but fairly well-used) Silvia. 23 g in the VST triple yielded a slightly bitter, powdery shot but a pretty decent cone with the naked PF. Dialled the micro back to O and dosed the same and the VST blonded a bit early, but there was no powder. I'll play some more this afternoon, but MAN what a difference from a cheap burr grinder!




How you liking the VST filters? I have mine on the way (somewhere in the mail) and pretty excited to use.
I been advised that a flatter tamper is also better well currently I am using a slightly convex version. 
Today I came down to 22grams and got a much better extraction. Still they are pulling a bit long over the 34 second mark, but taste great.

My steaming though for milk has taken a turn for the worse. Not sure if its the milk I have (same brand) or if I am just off.


----------



## SameGuy

I learned this morning not to use the naked PF after working a taxing graveyard shift and taking muscle relaxants before bed. What a mess!


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

DerSnap said:


> How you liking the VST filters? I have mine on the way (somewhere in the mail) and pretty excited to use.
> I been advised that a flatter tamper is also better well currently I am using a slightly convex version.
> Today I came down to 22grams and got a much better extraction. Still they are pulling a bit long over the 34 second mark, but taste great.
> 
> My steaming though for milk has taken a turn for the worse. Not sure if its the milk I have (same brand) or if I am just off.



You really have to try different milks out. When I lived in Germany, I had a hard time finding milk that wasn't ultra pasturized/shelf stable; it's hard to get good microfoam with it. Try finding the freshest milk you can find, and use whole milk.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

SameGuy said:


> I learned this morning not to use the naked PF after working a taxing graveyard shift and taking muscle relaxants before bed. What a mess!



Please, do tell...


----------



## SameGuy

Just didn't do something right, dosing, distribution, tamping... I'm still honing the new grinder for Red Bird. Had three different micro-jets beside the main cone, one spraying the backsplash of the machine, one my hand and one the counter and even the floor. Tiny little espresso dots everywhere!


----------



## SameGuy

Yes, the chrome has peeled off the plastic group head cowl...


----------



## DerSnap

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> You really have to try different milks out. When I lived in Germany, I had a hard time finding milk that wasn't ultra pasturized/shelf stable; it's hard to get good microfoam with it. Try finding the freshest milk you can find, and use whole milk.



I use a good Organic (Bio) Milk here Alpine stuff with 3.8% fat. It was just this specific one that was a bit flat for frothing. Today it was fine.
By off I meant my latte art is just not as fancy as when I used to make 400+ a day as a barista.

VST 20 gram just arrived last night, and dialing it in. So far seems pretty good.


----------



## vinster

SameGuy said:


> Just didn't do something right, dosing, distribution, tamping... I'm still honing the new grinder for Red Bird. Had three different micro-jets beside the main cone, one spraying the backsplash of the machine, one my hand and one the counter and even the floor. Tiny little espresso dots everywhere!



When I get uneven extractions, I often fall back to using the WDT and/or dosing down. For whatever reason, dosing "too much" in a basket makes my shots more prone to channelling.


----------



## vinster

SameGuy said:


> Yes, the chrome has peeled off the plastic group head cowl...



It looks like the coffee is coming out fast here. How long did this shot run? Was the picture taken towards the end?


----------



## SameGuy

Towards the end, yes. This was at about 24 seconds. I'm still dialling in the grind, but the channeling is definitely just operator error. I'll try dosing down and refining my initial distribution.


----------



## SameGuy

For the amount of espresso made in this household I'm not ready to plunk down two grand for a rotary pump HX or DB machine, and the Silvia can make decent shots from time to time. It occurs to me that using the Weiss Disribution Technique in a Synesso double basket and tamping with all my might (while blaming the old grinder for the need to do that!) for years was providing a lot of coverage for any deficiencies. The grinder is no longer a source of inconsistency, and tamping the fine, fluffy, fresh coffee at 30-35 lbs should at least get me close to a nice, long pull. Rather, I'm getting channeling and micro-jets, and it pours at close to gusher rates. 

I am now wondering what the GH pressure is during a brew. Another couple hundred for a pressure gauge and (while I'm in there) a PID should at least eliminate the equipment as sources of problems and inconsistency, and leave the operator as the main variable in the system.


----------



## WildBoar

Sounds like you may need to tighten the grind a bit.


----------



## SameGuy

Yeah, still tweaking that, but I'm already almost as fine as the Vario goes (1-H this morning).


----------



## SameGuy

Come to think of it, Vin, I put away my yogurt container upon acquiring the Vario, figuring the new grinder would solve several problems off the bat (uneven grind, clumping and distribution). I suppose I should fall back to it temporarily to see if that is indeed needed until I can get more proficient with Schomer or Stockfleth and the fluffier grind. A good pull using my old method would (at least temporarily) delay more expense in the form of a pressure gauge, but I really want temperature stability. Surfing is for kids.


----------



## DerSnap

Channeling is almost always caused by uneven distribution in the filter or tamping too hard. I have seen so many Barista's learning and torquing down on the tamp that is creates this problem. It is like honing on a fine stone where you go too hard it may bite in and get gouged by the knife, but not enough pressure and you receive no results.

Update:
VST basket 20 grams: Not sure I am really liking this basket. It makes really nice even espresso pulls and I totally am impressed with the technology. However I think I am missing the triple shots so a 22 gram may be on order. 

As for the 25-34ish second pulls. This is just a guideline, abet a decent one. When you start going larger doses, like triples this may change. Oddly single shots pull around the same time :/ When we where testing out various roasts (fresh with in a few days) on the triples we often found shots did not fully develop to 45 seconds


----------



## vinster

SameGuy said:


> Yeah, still tweaking that, but I'm already almost as fine as the Vario goes (1-H this morning).



There were some beans and roasts that I couldn't get slow enough, even at the Vario's finest grind setting. I agree with Wildboard -- keep going finer. Also, having beans in the hopper really helps a lot with getting consistent grinds.


----------



## DerSnap

vinster said:


> There were some beans and roasts that I couldn't get slow enough, even at the Vario's finest grind setting. I agree with Wildboard -- keep going finer. Also, having beans in the hopper really helps a lot with getting consistent grinds.



If you have to keep going finer, or too fine then it can also be the beans are not fresh enough, or over roasted. The darker the roast the more likely it is you will need to go finer.

This shot I did with a less fine grind, on the old triple basket. Decent crema, decent flow, not too light either, although its a tad lighter than the phone picked up. Also a big factor I found was to take the temperature down on my machine as it was pushing 1.5+ bars on the boiler. I still need to adjust the brew pressure but have not figured out how to do this in this specific machine.


----------



## apicius9

Looks nice. I had struggled with my HX Anita the last time I tried, shots were way too bitter. I wish I could just get a PID'ed dual boiler machine, that seems so much easier. When I move again in a couple of weeks I can get it out of storage, set it up and dial it in again from scratch. I'll probably fly in a few pounds of roasted espresso beans for that, not yet sure what the best one would be. I liked the Sweet Maria blend and also remember Vivace fondly. Any other recommendations for beans that are more on the chocolatey side? 

Stefan


----------



## WildBoar

Note on the hopper: I only make 1-2 double-shots per day, so keeping enough beans in the hopper to help with the grind was not really an option. Plus the cabinet above was too low to allow the grinder to be pushed back enough from the front of the counter. So I removed the hopper, and whenever I go to grind I load beans in the throat of the grinder and then put a metal tamper into the throat to keep the beans weighed down. This method works really well, assuming the throat of the grinder is big enough. If you are having to leave a lot of beans in the hopper and they are getting stale, you will constantly be tightening the grind and may eventually reach a point where it is not possible to get the extraction time you want. But by then the espresso won't be tasting all that great anyway.


----------



## vinster

The tamper serves a similar purpose, and that's actually what I do with my current grinder. But when I had the Vario, having beans to keep an even flow of beans to the burrs seemed to make a big difference in consistency. I didn't keep the hopper full -- just enough beans in the hopper for 2-3 days of drinks.


----------



## rahimlee54

apicius9 said:


> Looks nice. I had struggled with my HX Anita the last time I tried, shots were way too bitter. I wish I could just get a PID'ed dual boiler machine, that seems so much easier. When I move again in a couple of weeks I can get it out of storage, set it up and dial it in again from scratch. I'll probably fly in a few pounds of roasted espresso beans for that, not yet sure what the best one would be. I liked the Sweet Maria blend and also remember Vivace fondly. Any other recommendations for beans that are more on the chocolatey side?
> 
> Stefan



I enjoy Counter Culture Tuscano and Rustico at my house but if there is anything else fresh roasted at the local shops I usually grab that and branch out.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

apicius9 said:


> Looks nice. I had struggled with my HX Anita the last time I tried, shots were way too bitter. I wish I could just get a PID'ed dual boiler machine, that seems so much easier. When I move again in a couple of weeks I can get it out of storage, set it up and dial it in again from scratch. I'll probably fly in a few pounds of roasted espresso beans for that, not yet sure what the best one would be. I liked the Sweet Maria blend and also remember Vivace fondly. Any other recommendations for beans that are more on the chocolatey side?
> 
> Stefan



Red Bird would be perfect.


----------



## apicius9

Thanks guys. I will also eventually scout the local roasters but for value Red Bird seems hard to beat if I want to use a lot to dial in the machine. And I had always wanted to try it, anyway, so I see a 5 pound bag in my near future.

Stefan


----------



## WildBoar

rahimlee54 said:


> I enjoy Counter Culture Tuscano and Rustico at my house but if there is anything else fresh roasted at the local shops I usually grab that and branch out.


x2 on the CC blends.



AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Red Bird would be perfect.


I just tried this a few months ago, and found it very, very flat in relation to the CC blends. I played with doseage, shot duration, etc. and nothing made much of a difference.

Took a page out of rahimlee's playbook and picked up a 5 lb bag from a fairly new local roaster/ coffee shop about 2 months ago. The price was higher then Red Bird, but a bit less than CC. Flavor intensity sits in between those two; has a decent amount of chocolate and citrus. Company is swingscoffee.com.


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## vinster

A blend I like is Redline from Metropolis. Their prices are decent and shipping is free if you spend 50 bucks (4lbs). There is loads of chocolate, particularly at finer grinds and lower doses.


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## SameGuy

WDT FTW! I tightened the grind a little (now 1-E, or five clicks from the finest), stirred and distributed, tamped to 35 lbs and let her rip. The result? One of the best cups I've ever brewed at home. The dark streams came together after about 8 seconds into a fine cone, followed by beautiful striping. 32 seconds to 50 ml with no channeling or micro-jets, and it was heavenly!

FWIW, I find Red Bird to be very smooth yet plenty interesting. True, it's not like the Black Cat of yore, but it has lots of subtle notes, great fruit or berry sweetness and excellent mouth feel. It makes great crema, though I find that the crema doesn't last anywhere near long enough for some reason, even three days off the roast. Then again, IC's prices have gotten insane, have you shopped them lately? For the price ($50 for five pounds, shipped) and Jeff's great customer service, it's truly hard to beat Red Bird.

Unfortunately, all the local roasters are out to lunch. Either they base their prices on IC's, or they produce a bland, uninspired Illy/Lavazza knockoff that is marketed specifically to the large, under-informed but patriotic Little Italy community here. Every time I discuss coffee with a local of Italian descent, they always say, "Have you tried 'Prima Goccia'? It's what I buy." Blech.

Thus my choices are rather bad: either spend silly money for good coffees like Black Cat, Saint Henri's God Shot or Pilot's Big Bro, or buy five pound bags of Red Bird, divvy it up into 8-oz packs (yes, I vac seal and freeze them) and deal with the consequences. I split a bag with my mom, and can go through my three pounds in about a month.


----------



## DerSnap

Great that your shots are turning out. I know when I started to get them tuned in that suddenly I made a very wise investment. I rarely go out now for coffee, but I will search or go to a few great places (around the world) just to search them out. It is like fine wines, or spirits where they are all different but good.

Here I only have one good roaster, but Berlin Bonanza Coffee Hero's does one of the Best coffees anywhere in the world with awesome machines. Used to be a Synesso then they moved up to the Kees Van Der Western Spirit http://keesvanderwesten.com/spirit-pictures.html. Also there is a great roaster in Hamburg. 

The picture I linked was on espresso almost a month old, so you should not be loosing crema that fast. Perhaps its time you became the next famous local roaster 

Cheers,
Shamus


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## SameGuy

Maybe I should come over to try them! I need some parts for my little smart fortwo cabrio, and have found them in Duisburg, Berlin and Stuttgart at less than half the price I can get them here!

For what it's worth, I am the same way: when I travel, I seek out the best local third wave coffee establishments, like Barista Jam in Hong Kong or Alen's Espresso in Brisbane.


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## DerSnap

SameGuy said:


> Maybe I should come over to try them! I need some parts for my little smart fortwo cabrio, and have found them in Duisburg, Berlin and Stuttgart at less than half the price I can get them here!
> 
> For what it's worth, I am the same way: when I travel, I seek out the best local third wave coffee establishments, like Barista Jam in Hong Kong or Alen's Espresso in Brisbane.



Once you been touched by the God Shots its always a quest. I got to say its really sad when your away, or abroad and can't get a good shot. France was one of the worst places I found coffee, and Copenhagen pretty much top quality across the board. Germany has a lot to learn though, but like Gin or Chef's when they are on it is absolutely top level.

Personally I been considering trying my luck at the roasting also, but so far I have not made the commitment.


----------



## SameGuy

I was able to almost choke the Silvia/VST 22 this morning with Red Bird (11 days off roast) with a setting of 1-C and 30 lbs tamp. 43 seconds to 50 ml, but really nice striping and good, lasting crema.

I ordered a full kit of goodies to mod the Silvia last night: liquid-filled pressure gauge and fittings, PID, SSR and thermocouple, silicone insulation for the boiler, group head and steam pipe, a new shower screen... I will also try to mute some of the noise it creates, using Dynamat Extreme and some foam soundproofing, both of which I already have from a long-ago automotive project. Along with the new cowling and a v.3 steam knob (for looks), I think this will be the last money I put into my coffee habits for quite some time.


----------



## SameGuy

Even though I rarely make milk beverages at home, I decided to order the v3 steam valve and wand kit, this time from JL Hufford. $69.95 and free shipping, it's cheaper than anywhere else. I figure with the much more consistent shots I'm getting now, plus with temperature stability with the PID, it will be less of a PITA to make milk drinks, so why not upgrade the wand, too? 

This will definitely be the last of my investments in coffee gear for some time! I think I'm into the Silvia for close to a grand at this point, but for all intents and purposes it is now an upgraded v3 with PID, pressure gauge and naked v3 portafilter. Will it make espresso as good as a $3000 DB machine? Not likely, but it will be so close as to not matter. I'm already pulling better shots than anything I'm able to find in cafes around here, and it's costing me about 60¢ a shot...


----------



## rahimlee54

That should be a nice setup, hope you enjoy it.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

SameGuy said:


> Even though I rarely make milk beverages at home, I decided to order the v3 steam valve and wand kit, this time from JL Hufford. $69.95 and free shipping, it's cheaper than anywhere else. I figure with the much more consistent shots I'm getting now, plus with temperature stability with the PID, it will be less of a PITA to make milk drinks, so why not upgrade the wand, too?
> 
> This will definitely be the last of my investments in coffee gear for some time! I think I'm into the Silvia for close to a grand at this point, but for all intents and purposes it is now an upgraded v3 with PID, pressure gauge and naked v3 portafilter. Will it make espresso as good as a $3000 DB machine? Not likely, but it will be so close as to not matter. I'm already pulling better shots than anything I'm able to find in cafes around here, and it's costing me about 60¢ a shot...



It definitely has the capability to make some great drinks, but the key will be you. More expensive machines just make it easier to make great drinks, but still won't with a barista and no skills.


----------



## SameGuy

...like at all my local coffee places (not to mention the all the chain places at the airport where I work).


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## rahimlee54

I was weak and bought a new machine it will be here tomorrow, this is my last machine ever haha. I'll throw up a pic tomorrow evening or early Wednesday morning.


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## SameGuy

Hehe. I feel that. I'd have to sell my car to get the machine I want...


----------



## vinster

SameGuy said:


> Hehe. I feel that. I'd have to sell my car to get the machine I want...



Speedster?


----------



## SameGuy

Aw, man. I even keep forgetting about the Speedster. See? My dreams are actually down-to-earth! LOL

Nah, I just want a DB QuickMill. But that's still two grand for a one-double-a-day habit. And after I've spent maybe a grand on a souped up Silvia.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

rahimlee54 said:


> I was weak and bought a new machine it will be here tomorrow, this is my last machine ever haha. I'll throw up a pic tomorrow evening or early Wednesday morning.



Can you give us more?


----------



## rahimlee54

I have pretty much just sat down had to drive a decent ways to pick it up. This was a review for a local coffee forum, the guy that runs the place wanted to keep it but with his already great setup couldn't justify the money so I got a new machine at an incredible price. I didn't think I'd ever have anything at this level but I couldn't resist it.


La Marzocco GS3




\


----------



## SameGuy

Jeezus. Grats!


----------



## rahimlee54

SameGuy said:


> Jeezus. Grats!



I'll actually pull a few shots tonight . It is a monster at 70 plus pounds. Should be a step up. Who needs a Silvano haha.


----------



## SameGuy

Uhh, how much for the Silvano? Sis/BIL were looking at Brewtus...


----------



## vinster

rahimlee54 said:


> I'll actually pull a few shots tonight . It is a monster at 70 plus pounds. Should be a step up. Who needs a Silvano haha.



Are you using it on a tank or plumbed in?


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Damn that is awesome, I'm jelly.


----------



## geezr

rahimlee54 said:


> I have pretty much just sat down had to drive a decent ways to pick it up. This was a review for a local coffee forum, the guy that runs the place wanted to keep it but with his already great setup couldn't justify the money so I got a new machine at an incredible price. I didn't think I'd ever have anything at this level but I couldn't resist it.
> La Marzocco GS3 /QUOTE]
> 
> Congrats re. great buy and having the space for it :thumbsup:


----------



## DerSnap

Yes awesome machine!

You can really make the God Shots on those once you take some time to get to know it, slight mods to. I have always loved working on LaMrz machines, and for home its just awesome.


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## rahimlee54

I'll actually pull a shot tonight and see how it goes. Had to take a day off the gym to clean and read instructions and set the thing up. I have a hard time missing my workouts but sometimes you need to drink a few espressi.


----------



## DerSnap

rahimlee54 said:


> I'll actually pull a shot tonight and see how it goes. Had to take a day off the gym to clean and read instructions and set the thing up. I have a hard time missing my workouts but sometimes you need to drink a few espressi.




There is a lot you can adjust.
Group pressure, I think pressure profiles?
Temp at head, boiler, etc.
Pretty deep kit!


----------



## chokobo

Congrats on the GS3!!! Are you going one step further and getting the Strada MP mod?


----------



## WildBoar

rahimlee54 said:


> I have pretty much just sat down had to drive a decent ways to pick it up. This was a review for a local coffee forum, the guy that runs the place wanted to keep it but with his already great setup couldn't justify the money so I got a new machine at an incredible price. I didn't think I'd ever have anything at this level but I couldn't resist it.\


Sweet! You will love it. I got one 4 years ago as a wedding present for my wife and I. Once the credit card bill was paid I never regretted the purchase :biggrin:


----------



## vinster

WildBoar said:


> Sweet! You will love it. I got one 4 years ago as a wedding present for my wife and I. Once the credit card bill was paid I never regretted the purchase :biggrin:



That's a *really* nice wedding present :doublethumbsup:


----------



## WildBoar

hey, I felt we were worth it


----------



## rahimlee54

Got everything setup and pulled a couple of shots, as good as my old machine but I am still getting a feel for it. Ruined some perfectly good milk by steaming it poorly for my wife, and I couldn't figured out how to turn the thing off haha. It should be a fun learning experience and an awesome piece of equipment.


----------



## WildBoar

Steaming was the toughest thing for me to nail down. It goes quick if you are only steaming enough for one cappa. When I bought mine it was common for people to change out the wand, but I stuck with the stock one. Not sure if the wand on the current machines is the same one or not.


----------



## vinster

My stock wand is very very powerful! Took me a while to get used to it, and I still have problems with it from time to time. I've found that it's easiest to steam a small amount of milk (< 4oz) using an 8oz pitcher. I submerge the tip for just a second or two to get some hissing, then I plunge it to get the whirlpool going.

If you're looking to do a short cap or machiato, you're just going to have to accept the fact that you're going to dump some milk. I usually dump just a bit off the top which happens to be the most fluffy anyway.

A friend swears by his sproline tip. I'm not sure if I'm ready to spend the $100+ on it.


----------



## vinster

rahimlee54 said:


> Got everything setup and pulled a couple of shots, as good as my old machine but I am still getting a feel for it. Ruined some perfectly good milk by steaming it poorly for my wife, and I couldn't figured out how to turn the thing off haha. It should be a fun learning experience and an awesome piece of equipment.



Turning off the machine? or the steam wand? Take caution turning off the machine!!! if you push the wrong button, you might get a handful of hot water from the tea spout.


----------



## WildBoar

vinster said:


> Take caution turning off the machine!!! if you push the wrong button, you might get a handful of hot water from the tea spout.


This WILL happen. A bunch! They really do not intend for the machine to be turned on and off a lot. I'm surprised they have not changed that over the last 4+ years.

For frothing, I go with the same amount of milk (around 3-3.5 oz) and pitcher size as Vinster. I initially used a bigger pitcher but it just did not work.


----------



## rahimlee54

One for good measure why not






Thanks for all the good info here guys, its been helpful.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

I just ordered some Rustico and Toscano from Counter Culture, would love to pull those shots with that!


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

BTW, all you need to do now is customize it. This is the guy to do it:

http://www.home-barista.com/marketplace/custom-wood-for-your-espresso-machine-t10642.html

My Vibiemme Domobar Super has some cocobolo knobs made by him, and they are awesome!


----------



## rahimlee54

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I just ordered some Rustico and Toscano from Counter Culture, would love to pull those shots with that!



That shot is Rustico, it is prob my favorite blend from them.

I can't do any work to this for quite sometime, a new shower install and espresso machine all within a couple of weeks of one another makes my bank account sad :lol2:.


----------



## SameGuy

Nice coffee pr0n!


----------



## SameGuy

Jason, thanks for the link! That's great stuff. I only ever visit CG or HB once in a blue moon, usually when I'm shopping or have a problem.

Anybody know if black palm can be turned? I can imagine a steam knob, PF and Reg handles, and a dosing funnel all in dark black palm with golden leopard spots!


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

SameGuy said:


> Jason, thanks for the link! That's great stuff. I only ever visit CG or HB once in a blue moon, usually when I'm shopping or have a problem.
> 
> Anybody know if black palm can be turned? I can imagine a steam knob, PF and Reg handles, and a dosing funnel all in dark black palm with golden leopard spots!



Ask Dave (in the link). Ironically, he is from my the town next to my home town. Never met him in person, but he did turn me knobs for my Vebiemme.


----------



## jalanpipes

Black palm is tough to turn. It needs stabilized first or you get really bad tearout.

I turned the levers and porta-handle on my Elektra out of curly maple. Lovely wood, and it responds really well to dyes.


----------



## rahimlee54

You guys should put up some pics of your tampers and other such mods, always cool to see what people have done.


----------



## DerSnap

man I could use a good coffee right about now. Too bad machine is at home and what we have at work is beyond your worse nightmares.

Speaking of Tampers, I been considering a new Torr Titanium model, 50/50 on flat vs convex this time round?


----------



## SameGuy

Did you notice the "slack" with the VST baskets? They're 58.35 mm instead of the standard LM or Synesso 58.0 mm. I am considering either a Cafelat in 58.35, or a new base from Reg at 58.3 mm.


----------



## SameGuy

Meanwhile, I think I found the source of my poor extractions... I changed the shower screen on the Silvia's group head. Holy cow, what a difference! I guess five-plus years of daily scrubbing with a Pallö brush took its toll and caused really poor dispersion. The water now comes out evenly across the entire screen instead of a few strong streams near the middle.

Of course, now I have to adjust the grind and tamp again because without all the channeling it seems like it's almost choking.


----------



## DerSnap

SameGuy said:


> Did you notice the "slack" with the VST baskets? They're 58.35 mm instead of the standard LM or Synesso 58.0 mm. I am considering either a Cafelat in 58.35, or a new base from Reg at 58.3 mm.



I noticed my tor which is 57.5, or something similar is a touch loose on the edge. Even on my old triple.
However as it is convex it will fit tight as long as you don't over dose.

On the screen I find if I do not do back flush and clean regularly it will not shower in a fine way, but more towards the centre in a harder flow. Of course clean makes for a much more precise taste that I notice.


----------



## rahimlee54

I just got the VST baskets with my new machine. I use the same 58 mm tamper with no real problem, both the supplied tamper and the one I purchased are rounded and not flat.


----------



## vinster

SameGuy said:


> Did you notice the "slack" with the VST baskets? They're 58.35 mm instead of the standard LM or Synesso 58.0 mm. I am considering either a Cafelat in 58.35, or a new base from Reg at 58.3 mm.




There's a guy on eBay who does precision 58.35mm tampers for fairly cheap, or at least cheaper than reg. I think I paid around $30 bucks for my flat bottom.


----------



## quantumcloud509

I like to drink my coffee out of a mug.


----------



## DerSnap

Torr has them in 58.4, but I wonder if this too large?
http://cafe-kultur.de/products/torr-xs-palisander

Different types of base also in convex, flat, etc.

I am also searching out, and may try a Titanium next from them, with wood handle.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

quantumcloud509 said:


> I like to drink my coffee out of a mug.



Cool story bro.


----------



## SameGuy

Hey, if Ricardo thinks it's "good to the last drop," who are we to question him?


----------



## rahimlee54

Coffee in a small mug.


----------



## SameGuy

*Before

*





*
During [gulp]


*






*After
*







Now to clean it all up and do a final calibration. Pretty cool, though.


----------



## cord_steele

That's amazing. No more guessing about temperature.


----------



## SameGuy

Not (or only somewhat) visible: I insulated the boiler and PID, swapped the old-style steam wand for the commercial-style v.3 wand, replaced the peeling plastic cowling, and applied about ten pounds of Dynamat Extreme sound-deadening material to the insides. HUGE difference!


----------



## rahimlee54

That should help alot looks good. Hope the coffee is better for you .


----------



## SameGuy

Well, the coffee was already "pretty good," but this will definitely help with shot-to-shot consistency, water and energy savings, convenience, and noise mitigation. Wife is already loving the sound-deadening! Plus, no more bleed-off of air locks from overshooting the temperature? She'll love that that noise is gone, too!


----------



## apicius9

Cool! A friend has a pimped Silvia and loves it. Next weekend I will finally get my Anita out of storage and play around a bit. Just before I had packed it up, I had replaced a few tubes and tried to run it in but I guess I have to start over. Shots were way too bitter and I need to play around with the boiler pressure. Better order some coffee, so I have material to play with...

Stefan


----------



## SameGuy

I was struck by how imilahe Anita sounds compared to the Silvia, except that it's a bit more subdued (lots more heft to the QM's construction). I guess they share a very similar Ulka pump. I wonder if the Anita would also benefit from some sound deadener -- the Silvia has lots of flexible, thin panels that vibrate like crazy.

First couple of shots this morning are impressive. I had to bleed off a few times because I couldn't believe there was no huge overshoot (and thus, boil-off) causing vapor-lock. But, as I should have trusted, no vapor-lock! With 22.5 g in the VST tamped about 35 lbs, the pump built up to 9 bar and sat there until the end of the 28 second shot. Cool.


----------



## DerSnap

Just got my new base/piston for my Torr Tamper. This time I went with a 85.4 to and convex 2 bottom. Basically a convex with a flat bottom in the middle. Fits the VST basket perfectly. Not sure if it is the fit, or the different curve but shots are seriously a step up.

If I was to describe the taste I would say there was always this very slight slight hint of bitterness hiding in the background. Not really there but more implied like when you know someone is standing behind you. Now that has subsided and brought forward some flavours like cinnamon or butterscotch. Very interesting, and a bit of a surprise. Same grind settings, heat settings, pressure, etc. Did a couple of side by sides just to be sure. 

Pulling 20grams in a 20 gram VST. 
Also a bit energized and ready to spring my bike to work (too much coffee).


----------



## SameGuy

DerSnap said:


> Not really there but more implied like when you know someone is standing behind you.


How very existentialist, Mr. Sartre! LOL

These are interesting observations; I may have to consider getting the new base for my Reg Barber.


----------



## CoqaVin

SameGuy said:


> How very existentialist, Mr. Sartre! LOL
> 
> These are interesting observations; I may have to consider getting the new base for my Reg Barber.



what is the best coffee to you?

I am sure this has been asked before....don't have the time to go back through all the thread plus my computer stinks LOL

Ethiopian Yergacheffe? 

I am wondering because I really love my coffee in the AM as I am in such a rush usually I just go with the Keurig...I know I should be roasting and using a french press or whatever but I just don't have the time


----------



## SameGuy

Ordered a 58.35 mm (VST) base for my Reg Barber tamper from eBay seller precisiontampermaker and I couldn't be happier. After a series of emails to confirm the size and style I wanted, the part was shipped quickly from West Palm Beach, FL, to my address in waaaay upstate NY and got there in three days over the holiday weekend by USPS Priority Post. The workmanship and finishing is impeccable, And my digital calipers measure the base at _precisely _58.350 mm. The only noticeable difference with the Reg base is that his is cut to set the handle in, providing a flush transition from the handle to the base. The new base is flat above the bevel, but together they still look like an original piece. At $27.50 plus shipping, this is a great deal. As noted above, it had an instant impact (no pun intended) on my shots.


----------



## SameGuy

Calibrated the Vario this morning as I was noticing I needed quite a bit more than 150 N (~33 lbs) of force to slow my shots at a very fine setting; the "multiple-pass" tamping style that was necessary with the undersized piston probably hid this from me while the new one made it obvious. The Vario needed five full turns of the adjuster screw to get in tune! Now I have to dial in my grind again, but set around 2/3 _down _the micro scale and tamped to a measured 33 lbs in one stroke, the first shot was a leisurely ten seconds to first drops and 43 seconds total to 50 ml. Interesting flavors and notes at this rate.


----------



## apicius9

Ok, I'm back in on the fun, kind of. Got the Anita running last night after the brew pump needed a bit of help at first - had been sitting in storage for a year. Used some cleaner for the boiler and tubes, scrubbed the screen and gasket which did not need replacement after all, soaked and cleaned all the filters etc. Now the real fun begins, even though with a small delay. Need to adjust the brew pressure first but the tubing is a bit short and I am waiting for some new tubing to come in. Then it's time to dial it in. Just got 5# of Redbird to play with the fine-tuning. Still a long way to go but it was already good enough to make a decent latte this morning, needs more work before I can pull an espresso I am proud of. Already found myself looking at grinders again, but the Rocky will have to do for a little while more, I just barely avoided bankruptcy... Need to get a small scale, though. I want to keep it at a reasonable level and not make a science experiment of every shot, but I learned before that it helps to measure it all up in the beginning to figure out the routine. This should be fun, I missed the coffee rituals at home.

Stefan

P.S. I think I will have to read up on VST baskets...


----------



## DerSnap

SameGuy said:


> Ordered a 58.35 mm (VST) base for my Reg Barber tamper from eBay seller precisiontampermaker and I couldn't be happier. After a series of emails to confirm the size and style I wanted, the part was shipped quickly from West Palm Beach, FL, to my address in waaaay upstate NY and got there in three days over the holiday weekend by USPS Priority Post. The workmanship and finishing is impeccable, And my digital calipers measure the base at _precisely _58.350 mm. The only noticeable difference with the Reg base is that his is cut to set the handle in, providing a flush transition from the handle to the base. The new base is flat above the bevel, but together they still look like an original piece. At $27.50 plus shipping, this is a great deal. As noted above, it had an instant impact (no pun intended) on my shots.



So if I understand your basically on a Euro type base also (convex 2)? Torr who I got my tamper base from also said despite VST suggesting a flat base that a slightly bevelled base seems to work better. I do know now with the VST that its pretty much exact in espresso weight, tamp pressure, etc. 20 grams is what its rated at and basically this is where I get my best shots from. If not then I did not tamp correct or set grind correct, or the espresso is just ****.

I am liking the 20 over former 23g. Give that nice clean flavour with just the right amount of depth that the 18 never hit.


----------



## aaamax

Now if we just start a thread on old Panhead Bobbers all my bases would be covered, lol (I ride an old Evo to work).
One of the best things I ever talked myself into was a first class espresso machine and grinder (Expobar Lever & Mazer Mini). Wasn't easy pulling the trigger on so much dough, but I figured it would pay for itself in one year. And yes, it did and I've been livin' good ever since.


----------



## DerSnap

aaamax said:


> Now if we just start a thread on old Panhead Bobbers all my bases would be covered, lol (I ride an old Evo to work).
> One of the best things I ever talked myself into was a first class espresso machine and grinder (Expobar Lever & Mazer Mini). Wasn't easy pulling the trigger on so much dough, but I figured it would pay for itself in one year. And yes, it did and I've been livin' good ever since.




I totally agree with you. 
For years I was sort of looking what machine to get. I had ECM in mind and then they had it at a new Media Markt here in Germany. Demo model, but never used. Of course all the porno german types wanted these **** bling machines that do it all. Some even cost over 3K euro. Anyways a few months go by and its sitting there all sad so I say I will give 800 euros. A lot of haggling and I took it with 12 months zero interest. Ran a Graef grinder for about a year with it. Then I got my Mazzer Mini Mod B with 12 month zero interest. That was 4 years or so ago and they have been dream machines ever since. 

Of course I had worked as a barista in many places including the Drake Hotel when back in Canada. Did some local competitions, etc and used some very fine pro machines. I would say with the exception of a few shots I pulled on a Synesso I can get better quality at home now. 

I wake, hit the machine to warm up, shower, have my cappuccino and ride to work. Its a great way to start the day


----------



## SameGuy

First good fix in a week, after too much Costa Coffee, I'm posting this from the tiny front bar at Raw Coffee in Al Quoz, Dubai UAE. First slap in the back of the head was a triple ristretto single-origin Sidamo Ethiopia. Huge citrus up front, very interesting profile, but not something I'd like to take home with me. Felix the barista asked me if I prefer something darker -- an obvious test, trying to weed out the Starbucks/Gloria Jeans/second Cup pretenders, I suppose -- and when I said I prefer a more rounded profile he suggested I try the "Walk In" (house) blend. It is _superb_&#8203;. More later!


----------



## aaamax

DerSnap said:


> I had ECM in mind and then they had it at a new Media Markt here in Germany.



A friend of mine has an ECM and it seems like a damn good machine.

Since you are in Germany, do you have any opinion on what the reality of buying a La Marzocco in Italy would be? Is there any savings to be had? So tempted to get one, but everything here in Sweden is so over-the-top expensive.


----------



## rahimlee54

aaamax said:


> A friend of mine has an ECM and it seems like a damn good machine.
> 
> Since you are in Germany, do you have any opinion on what the reality of buying a La Marzocco in Italy would be? Is there any savings to be had? So tempted to get one, but everything here in Sweden is so over-the-top expensive.



If you can manage to get a price you can live with grab a La Marzocco. I am really enjoying mine, even though it took me a bit to figure out how to do maintenance on it .


----------



## vinster

rahimlee54 said:


> If you can manage to get a price you can live with grab a La Marzocco. I am really enjoying mine, even though it took me a bit to figure out how to do maintenance on it .



What sort of maintenance do you do on yours? I do a backflush with detergent and clean the grouphead every week or so. Backflush with water nightly. and generally try to move water through both boilers a few times a week. I think that's about all I do...


----------



## rahimlee54

vinster said:


> What sort of maintenance do you do on yours? I do a backflush with detergent and clean the grouphead every week or so. Backflush with water nightly. and generally try to move water through both
> boilers a few times a week. I think that's about all I do...



Draining the boilers was new to me but not big deal, the biggest problem I had was the brew pressure adjustment piece got stuck and was sending the pressure to like 15 on the gauge. Just the learning curve of a new machine. The machine I had before didn't have anything you could do to it besides flush with detergent.


----------



## apicius9

O.k., I finally replaced a few tubes in my Anita and will clean the grouphead tomorrow and dial it in with Redbird until I get shots I don't have to pour into milk... Of course, I haven't even gotten there and find myself researching upgrades already - it's a disease, at least as bad as knives... Here is the question: what will get me the bigger quality improvement, upgrading from my doserless Rancilio Rocky (to Macap M4, Mazzer Mini, Compak K3 - or a Baratza Vario(-W)?) or getting a Behmor to roast my own beans? I will have to save up for either one, and I am not sure what the best strategy is. The grinder would be for espresso only, and the Rocky would then be dedicated to French press and drip coffee, so I am leaning more toward one of the Italian metal monsters right now, but I am open to suggestions. However, since the doserless Rocky is throwing grinds all over the place (even with the yoghurt cup...), I am thinking about a grinder with a doser. As for roasting, I did that for a while with an IRoast 2 but the Behmor seems to be the better solution on all kinds of levels. Of course, it is illegal to import green beans to HI, so I will have to think of creative solutions for that...

Anyway, any thoughts on the best sequence here? Anybody selling a Mazzer mini for cheap or trading for knives or handles 

Stefan


----------



## WildBoar

My opinion -- If you can source decent roated beans spend the $ on the grinder first. No sense roasting your own if you're not getting the best grind you can.


----------



## vinster

I have a mazzer major I am maybe looking to sell. It's been sitting unused for about 6 months. It is a beast!


----------



## CoqaVin

After beans are roasted or grind what is the optimal usage time or freshness ?


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

CoqaVin said:


> After beans are roasted or grind what is the optimal usage time or freshness ?



After I roast, I use within a 2 week period (usually only roast enough for a week) and they are kept in a double valve bag. After ground, the freshness takes a huge dive, so I usually grind right before using. Remember, it's the oils that provide the flavor, and they dry up quick after exposed to oxygen, hence the stale flavor. To answer your second question, use in less than an hour after grinding, but preferably right away.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

vinster said:


> I have a mazzer major I am maybe looking to sell. It's been sitting unused for about 6 months. It is a beast!



PM me I may be interested.


----------



## apicius9

vinster said:


> I have a mazzer major I am maybe looking to sell. It's been sitting unused for about 6 months. It is a beast!



Tempting as it is, that may be too much for me to handle - not enough space for it either, and I would not seriously be looking to buy before February. Jason, if you take the MM, what will you be selling? 

Stefan


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

Right now I have a couple Mazzer Mini's, but have been looking for a used Major for awhile.


----------



## apicius9

Mmhh, I think a Mini would fit here.  On local Craigslist someone is offering a used Jolly with new hopper, new lids and burrs in 'excellent shape', that made me think also. Again, bigger than I wanted and at $475 a touch more than it should be, but saving the hassle and cost of shipping one of these monsters out here is probably worth some extra cash. Dor the same money I get a factory refurbished Baratza Vario-W which supposedly is on one level with the Jolly but has a much smaller foot print - and much more plastic. Any thoughts on the Jolly vs. Mini vs. Vario-W? I guess all are ugrades over the Rocky, and I know there is no final word on this, I read the home-barista and coffee-geek discussions.

Stefan


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

I don't know if I'd put the Vario on the same level as the Jolly, but it's a very capable machine. I'm not a fan of all the plastic for such an expensive grinder (in comparison to commercial grinder tank build). $475 for a used Jolly is too expensive. Considering burrs will almost always have to be replaced for a well used one, the usual sale price for a used one should be around $300, give or take the condition and how much it was used. I'd love to get a $2K grinder, but thats way above my needs at this point in life. Out of the three, if you go used you can't go wrong. For your situation, a used Vario may be the best option.


----------



## vinster

apicius9 said:


> Mmhh, I think a Mini would fit here.  On local Craigslist someone is offering a used Jolly with new hopper, new lids and burrs in 'excellent shape', that made me think also. Again, bigger than I wanted and at $475 a touch more than it should be, but saving the hassle and cost of shipping one of these monsters out here is probably worth some extra cash. Dor the same money I get a factory refurbished Baratza Vario-W which supposedly is on one level with the Jolly but has a much smaller foot print - and much more plastic. Any thoughts on the Jolly vs. Mini vs. Vario-W? I guess all are ugrades over the Rocky, and I know there is no final word on this, I read the home-barista and coffee-geek discussions.
> 
> Stefan



I never had the mini, but I had both a vario and a super jolly. The vario was good and happy for about 6 months or so, then started to have lots of issues with consistency and static. I couldn't shake it off and I got a great deal on the SJ. The SJ I think was way better in terms of consistency.... then it got me curious, so I got a Major (for the bigger burr), and more recently I was more curious and wanted to try out a conical, so I got the K10. I didn't find the major to be much of an improvement over the SJ...

I'd recommend getting a used SJ if you can. they are built solid and fit great into the home environment.


----------



## apicius9

Thanks guys, the more I am thinking about it, the more interesting the SJ sounds. I just contacted the person on Craigslist and offered him $350 for the used SJ, and if we agree on something under $400 I will just go for it. I decided I will drink espresso-based drinks 90% of the time at home, so if I can sell my Rocky, which is in very good shape, and offset the cost a bit, this could work out fine even if it was not planned right now. We'll see. Oh, and the reliability of the Varios has been my main concern about them, so hearing that yours had issues after 6 months is another argument for the true and tried SJ. Of course, the SJ won't fit under the cupboard, but I'll deal with that if it gets to that point... And if not, I am not desperate... They just don't come up used out here very often and I want to at least check it out.

Stefan


----------



## WildBoar

x100 on the SJ. Picked mine up used, and the burrs were still in good condition. I don't use the hopper; I keep a tamper in the throat and it fits under the wall cabinets.


----------



## apicius9

Score. Picked up the SJ today. :doublethumbsup: Lost a little bit of paint in a few tiny spots, but the burrs, hopper, and both lids are new. Paid $400 for it in the end. But with the new parts and close to $100 it would cost just to ship one I haven't seen from the mainland that sounded fair in the end. Big, but somehow not as big as I had feared. But, of course, it doesn't fit under the cupboard... :scratchhead: Funny thing, the seller also has an Anita, so it may be more than half way dialed in already. Will play with it over the next week or so. Anybody need a Rocky? 

Stefan


----------



## wenus2

WildBoar said:


> I don't use the hopper; I keep a tamper in the throat and it fits under the wall cabinets.


Same here, I find it looks much better with a Reg Barber in cocobolo than it ever thought about with that hopper.

I actually have an old Gaggia single filter basket that happens to fit so that the lip rests right on the grinder collar, then the tamper sits in that to weight it down. Helps protect the tamper and keep it smooth.

Congrats on the SJ!


----------



## erikz

I use a phillips filter machine, and a Quigg cold grinder. I get my coffee at a local coffestore, called Simon Levelt.


----------



## wenus2

vinster said:


> so I got the K10.


Vinster, I'm gonna play 20 Qs cause I've been eyeballing that grinder for a minute.

What do you think of it? 
Conical > flat?
Do the Titan Shootout results hold up?

I'm presently down to 1 SJ, was considering a K10 Fresh maybe next summer, but then I read a review (cafeculture.com) that stated it held a lot of grounds in the chute. I was talked out of a Robur-E several years ago for the same reason, you essentially have to flush at least a whole dose every time you come to the machine. Fine in a commercial setting where you are steady, but not practical at home. 50% is too much waste. I don't think the dosered version has this problem as bad, or at least you can scrape the chute.

Which version do you have?
Do you know what its grind retention is?
Care to weigh it?
(I realize that sounds tedious to most, but coffee nerds understand each other, lol)

One nice thing about the Fresh I guess is that there are 2 presets, so say your grind retention is 7g, you can set one preset to ~7g for a chute flush and then go live with the other preset at ~20g. 
If those numbers were real (they are not)... I guess I could live with 25% waste, begrudgingly.


----------



## rahimlee54

I have the k10 wbc and it holds around 7 g in the chute. For single dosing I suspect the wbc would be less wasteful since you can sweep the chute. That is what I do, it works great.


----------



## vinster

wenus2 said:


> Vinster, I'm gonna play 20 Qs cause I've been eyeballing that grinder for a minute.
> 
> What do you think of it?
> Conical > flat?
> Do the Titan Shootout results hold up?
> 
> I'm presently down to 1 SJ, was considering a K10 Fresh maybe next summer, but then I read a review (cafeculture.com) that stated it held a lot of grounds in the chute. I was talked out of a Robur-E several years ago for the same reason, you essentially have to flush at least a whole dose every time you come to the machine. Fine in a commercial setting where you are steady, but not practical at home. 50% is too much waste. I don't think the dosered version has this problem as bad, or at least you can scrape the chute.
> 
> Which version do you have?
> Do you know what its grind retention is?
> Care to weigh it?
> (I realize that sounds tedious to most, but coffee nerds understand each other, lol)
> 
> One nice thing about the Fresh I guess is that there are 2 presets, so say your grind retention is 7g, you can set one preset to ~7g for a chute flush and then go live with the other preset at ~20g.
> If those numbers were real (they are not)... I guess I could live with 25% waste, begrudgingly.



Doh! I was typing a long post and I accidentally closed the browser window... So here goes again.

I have a K10 PB. I picked the PB over the Fresh because of cost and the grinds retention issue (IMO present in nearly all doserless models). I only make 1-2 drinks a day, so the waste was a deal breaker for me. I picked the Compak over the Robur and Kony because the Mazzer titans wouldn't fit under the cabinets in my kitchen. I wasn't really planning to switch from the Major, but came across a good deal and was curious to try a titan conical. The K10 is a solid heavy duty grinder, but not in the same class as the Mazzers. The Mazzers look and feel more substantial. I also like the feel of the doser on the Major over the K10. That being said, I'm happy with the purchase and have decided to keep the K10 and put the Major up for sale.

I have to admit that my palate (and skills) aren't sophisticated enough for me to consistently discern taste differences between a large burr and a large conical. If anything, it might be a little easier to make out the distinct floral/fruity notes with the K10. I also get more consistency with the K10 and I find it much easier to dial in shots because the adjustments to the collar aren't as sensitive on the K10 as they were on the Major. Meaning, for a same rotation on the collar, the resulting difference in grind was bigger on the Major. 

The K10 PB doesn't grind as fast as I expected it would -- it's probably ~25% slower than a Major... something like 7s vs 10s for a 18g dose. Don't put too much stock in my numbers because a hopper full of beans would obviously grind faster. I'd consider modding my grinder one day to add a timer and running it with a hopper if I had the space. I've found that using a hopper loaded with beans results in MUCH more grind consistency on all the grinders I've tried. It would be nice to have a loaded hopper and pretty a button to get a preset amount of grinds...

Regarding grinds retention, I single dose on my K10 without the hopper and I sweep the chute clean, so I don't have any solid numbers for you to work with. With the electrical tape on the doser vanes mod, there's virtually 0 grinds rentention. I measured .1-.2g (lost in the burr assembly or chute) in the beginning when I first got the machine, but I don't bother to weight the output anymore. The design of the K10 chute causes more retention than the Mazzers. Whereas the Mazzer chute is a smooth and slightly sloping, the Compak chute is virtually level, and there's a plastic piece that creates a lip for the grinds to traverse on their way out. If I didnt sweep, there would be significantly more grinds retained in the K10 chute vs the Major or SJ. You can cut/file the plastic component to reduce this, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. If I had to guess, I'd probably have at least 5g hiding in my K10 chute if I didn't sweep it out.

If I remember, I'll weigh how much is retained tomorrow morning on a couple shots.

So if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably stick with with an SJ or maybe a Major, depending on the deal I can get. If I wanted to go with a doserless conical (and had the space), I'd probably go with a Kony or Robur, since the design of the chute results in lower grinds retention. For a doser conical, I've been happy with the K10, which I picked up as a demo unit from Chris Coffee.

I dont know if you've guys have seen this video before, but it's funny (and appropriate):
[video=youtube;sK7pnwQ8YpA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK7pnwQ8YpA[/video]


----------



## apicius9

Played around a bit tonight until I at least produced a few donuts... So much to do, need to take out the finger guard and do the tape mod, get a small scale and then see what I can come up with. Somehow the doser is much messier than I expected, have to figure that out and maybe I will do this mod with the dispensing hole that I saw somewhere. Any other Jolly tips you guys can give me?

Oh, and I like the animation 

Stefan


----------



## vinster

Here's a thread that should help: http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/how-to-tame-messy-mazzer-doser-t6499.html

I usually tame donuts with WDT. Or turn the PF all around as you're dosing and focus on getting the grinds around the sides.


----------



## apicius9

Great, thanks! I read about this sophisticated technological device but did not know exactly what it was. I did WDT the Rocky output in my yoghurt cup all the time, maybe I have to adapt one to the height of the Jolly. With a Shnozzola and a yoghurt cup, what could go wrong? And how stupid must this sentence sound to the uninitiated?  

Stefan


----------



## vinster

wenus2 said:


> Which version do you have?
> Do you know what its grind retention is?
> Care to weigh it?
> (I realize that sounds tedious to most, but coffee nerds understand each other, lol)



I pulled two shots this morning and weighed the grinds that had to be manually swept out. The grinder kept ~ 6.3g and 5.9g in the chute. I've never seen the K10 fresh so I cant comment on whether the retention would be similar there.


----------



## wenus2

vinster said:


> I pulled two shots this morning and weighed the grinds that had to be manually swept out. The grinder kept ~ 6.3g and 5.9g in the chute. I've never seen the K10 fresh so I cant comment on whether the retention would be similar there.





rahimlee54 said:


> I have the k10 wbc and it holds around 7 g in the chute. For single dosing I suspect the wbc would be less wasteful since you can sweep the chute. That is what I do, it works great.



That's awesome, thanks guys. I guess I was only half making up that 7g retention number. Now I just need to figure out what the Fresh holds.

Enjoying some Blue Bottle Ethiopian Lima Wolenso this morning.


----------



## CoqaVin

Wow this thread is confusing me I personally LOVE coffee and did not know there was so much different equipment etc...


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

CoqaVin said:


> Wow this thread is confusing me I personally LOVE coffee and did not know there was so much different equipment etc...



Yeah, the rabbit hole is pretty deep, similar to many hobbies. Just depends how involved in the process you want to get.


----------



## CoqaVin

I hear ya...


----------



## RGNY

wow, thread was a slog, feel like a slacker. 

all i use is either a french press or Vietnamese phin. 

do roast my own green beans though....


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy

I would normally do this in the "for sale" section, but if anyone is looking for a moderately used, well maintained Mazzer Mini then IM me. I just picked up a Mazzer Major and already have two Mini's.


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## apicius9

Sounds like a great opportunity I would have jumped on a couple of weeks ago, but now I am on the middle of modding the Jolly I picked up locally. I hope the Mini will find a good home.

Stefan


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## tripleq

RGNY said:


> wow, thread was a slog, feel like a slacker.
> 
> all i use is either a french press or Vietnamese phin.
> 
> do roast my own green beans though....



Nothing wrong with a French press. I use one occasionally and I get a pretty good brew out of it. My fav from it is pre-ground Serrano from Cuba. I'm sipping some right now. Passed over a real espresso shot for it. The heart wants what the heart wants


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## Orcasite

I used to use a French Press every morning, but then discovered the "Clever Coffee Dripper." It worked great - make a much cleaner (less grit), but full-flavored cup then french press. However, it was made of relatively thin plastic and couldn't take the heat stress and cracked. However, I discovered that Bonavita make a similar design in white porcelain - and so I got one and couldn't be happier. I used a metal filter instead of paper filters and it makes a wonderful clean tasting, full-bodied cup with no fuss. I just let the coffee steep, place the Bonavita on top of my cup, open the valve and let it drip. Wonderful and easy morning coffee.


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## pitonboy

So just because I went through most of this thread looking for it but didn't find it: Is there a good mail-order source for roasted whole beans and I don't mean S-------- crap?


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

Start here: http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/favorite-espresso-blends-2012-t20955.html

And continue here: http://www.home-barista.com/coffees/

I personally like Redbird and Cafe Fresco Ambrosia.


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## apicius9

I just had a cup of Redbird of beans that had been in the freezer for some time and it still tasted good. Will definitely order again, but not the 5 pound bag, too much to handle for me by myself... 

Stefan


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## WildBoar

I'm a big fan of Counter Culture. Tried Redbird recently and is was not my thing (I like more citrus, chocolate, etc.). But lately I've been buying locally from Swing's, as I can, uhm, swing by and pick it up.


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## rahimlee54

I drink mainly counter culture as well, I do the espresso recurring order which gives a 10% discount and it usually gets here in one day since I am close to the warehouse. I will grab other brands if they are fresh at the high end grocery stores: whole foods, Earthfare etc.


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## JCHine

Just picked up a chemex as I'm moving away from espresso (basically got a choice give up wine or espresso). Any hints on getting the best out of it? Using a Mazzer mini grinder and one of them fancy bon(whatever) kettles @ 93C, but am struggling to get a good flavour profile.


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## CoqaVin

ok being a coffee nut on a budget what is the best for roasting, grinding, and brewing?


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## JCHine

Roasting is a popcorn maker! 

Grinding, buy as expensive as you can afford; it sounds strange but a uniform repeatable grind is incredibly important and will make up for a poor machine (if that is your thing). I've heard mixed reports about hario hand grinders but there are some niche makers out there that make good stuff.

If you really have to have espresso style coffee and are not prepared to drop some serious cash go nespresso until you can afford better. 

Before folks get all bent out of shape a for me a good setup is an lever machine or an E61 with PID and a serious grinder like a Mazzer to get close to replicating a commercial machine. Typically that setup won't leave you much change out of $1.5K if you shop around. There are smaller machines but they suffer durability issues and never really make a good cup IMHO.

Chemex's make a good coffee and are reasonably cheap (and increasingly fashionable) go for the mid sized version. Never underestimate a stovetop Bialetti with a good grinder they do a pretty good italian style short black albeit without crema.

Moving up there is an Australian stovetop called an OTTO which is an improved Atomic that some of the coffee nerds I know (who work for roasters) like.


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## DerSnap

Just adding to the blog some more posts and finally starting off with a little introduction to my latest kitchen espresso setup. I will add in time some extra steps along the journey to the God Shot such as tampers, baskets, espresso, etc.

http://www.dersnap.com/snap-tools/k...ll-the-espresso-ecm-espresso-machine-360.html

Cheers!


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## Pcol2000

So I recently (and finally) figured out how to post pictures on the forum so I figure I'll show my set-up. Expobar brewtus 4. It's my first machine and I love it. I got the one without the reservoir as I want to plumb in someday. So now the hose sits in my typhoon preparedness water bottles.


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## WildBoar

Nice! That tamper looks special -- is it a custom?


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## daddy yo yo

As a bicycle freak, I absolutely LOVE Chris King's tampers: 







And I'd love to get into that espresso madness :coffeelots: myself, :butbutbut: but I simply cannot afford another addiction (besides my road bike, my mountain bike, and my knives). :sad0: A friend of mine, who passed away, was an espresso maniac. He served the best espresso I've ever had. He bought his roast unground, had a grinder himself, and a high value espresso machine. He said it took him months to find out the perfect balance (coffee, grinding degree, amount of water, amount of coffee, water temp, water pressure). But the result was simply perfect! His espresso machine looked like you must have studied rocket science, with all those wheels, valves, and so on... Pretty though!

Fortunately I am blessed with 2 REALLY good Cafés/Restaurants where I live. All I can say, one uses Illy, the other uses Hausbrandt and a Cimbali professional machine. I prefer the latter!


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## Pcol2000

WildBoar said:


> Nice! That tamper looks special -- is it a custom?



It's not a custom but it's pretty nice. I'll be away from home for a bit so I can't tell ya exactly who made it. I would love to have Magnus turn me some nice burl for it. And those Chris kings do look amazing. Might have to pick one up. Ive been riding fixie / single speed for about 15 years now and love it


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## Namaxy

We had Chris King hubs on our racing tandem. I had no idea they made tampers.


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## daddy yo yo

Oh yeah! Best hubs and headsets out there. I am even considering buying a high-value espresso machine just to have a justification to buy their tamper! 

They also offer salt and pepper shakers! 

Oh, have a look at their CIELO branded steel frames: awesome!!!


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## DerSnap

daddy yo yo said:


> Oh yeah! Best hubs and headsets out there. I am even considering buying a high-value espresso machine just to have a justification to buy their tamper!
> 
> They also offer salt and pepper shakers!
> 
> Oh, have a look at their CIELO branded steel frames: awesome!!!



20 thousand KM over last 5 years on my king hubs, second set of rims now just because I changed from 29er size to 650b. It simply amazes me how precision the engineering is on them, and when I did a rebuild last year for cleaning how great they really are on the inside. Besides that Chris King is one of the few factories to offer gourmet century tours, chef with real good food in his factory, gives meal allowances on how far you bike to work, and many other great things. Do I mind paying more for a company like that? No F'n way and I would/do go out of my way to support companies like this, and made in USA.

As for tamper I am still more than satisfied with my Torr tamper made here in Germany and my VST baskets. I think 5-6 years also with my ECM Espresso Machine and Mazzer grinder. Best dam investment every single morning I wake for work and start my day on the right cup. 

Don't buy Illy and that **** as these big corp brands simply are wasting resources. Fresh coffee + local roaster is the only way to go as coffee is best with in 2-3 days of roasting.

I will post more soon on my blog thebadboystories.com about the wheels, and other extras to the bike. The Kings are really over due for their write up, but I been sort of wanting to do a special write up for them.

Cheers,


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## DerSnap

Pcol2000 said:


> So I recently (and finally) figured out how to post pictures on the forum so I figure I'll show my set-up. Expobar brewtus 4. It's my first machine and I love it. I got the one without the reservoir as I want to plumb in someday. So now the hose sits in my typhoon preparedness water bottles.



Awesome Machine ! Dual boiler I take it?


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## Pcol2000

Oh yeah dual boiler. I shopped around for close to a year before I took the plunge.


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## 99Limited

That Expobar is such a bad-ass machine. I had narrowed my choice down between a ECM Technika and the Expobar Brewtus IV. In the end, I ended up not doing anything. I just couldn't justify spending $2k on a machine just for me. 

Maybe now that I can roast my own beans I can look into something that a little bit more budget friendly. I guess I should give Craig's List a view.


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## rahimlee54

99Limited said:


> That Expobar is such a bad-ass machine. I had narrowed my choice down between a ECM Technika and the Expobar Brewtus IV. In the end, I ended up not doing anything. I just couldn't justify spending $2k on a machine just for me.
> 
> Maybe now that I can roast my own beans I can look into something that a little bit more budget friendly. I guess I should give Craig's List a view.



You know you want it go ahead and take the $2k plunge. You'll forget about the money after about a month. I had the Quickmill Silvano for about a year, I never tried a 2k ish machine but the silvano put out some really good coffee.  I'd recommend it unless you can spend the extra in which case treat yourself pretty.


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## DerSnap

99Limited said:


> That Expobar is such a bad-ass machine. I had narrowed my choice down between a ECM Technika and the Expobar Brewtus IV. In the end, I ended up not doing anything. I just couldn't justify spending $2k on a machine just for me.
> 
> Maybe now that I can roast my own beans I can look into something that a little bit more budget friendly. I guess I should give Craig's List a view.



I was also looking at the Expobar but i got my ECM for about 800 Euros. It was a floor model that never got used, and people would rather have spent 3K euro for terrible automatic machines than the only good machine in the whole city. Loved it ever since.


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## DerSnap

rahimlee54 said:


> You know you want it go ahead and take the $2k plunge. You'll forget about the money after about a month. I had the Quickmill Silvano for about a year, I never tried a 2k ish machine but the silvano put out some really good coffee. I'd recommend it unless you can spend the extra in which case treat yourself pretty.



My philosophy on this subject is simple:
If the first thing you can start your day off is with the absolute best coffee, and hopefully breakfast that even the richest man in the world might not have, then it is a good start. Puts one into a good ritual of a fine art that I feel sets the pace. I also shave with a straight razor of a good quality for the same reasons (if I shave), and naturally we all are here because of this with knives also.

BTW the money I have likely saved on going to shops was well worth it and when I go to a shop it is more of a special treat and it will be a very special shop indeed.


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## apicius9

Good thoughts, starting the day with treating ourselves with care and dignity can make a big difference. I just wish I didn't have to get up so dang early when I am really more a night person. 

As for 'you will forget the money in a month' - that may be true, but your wife will never forget 

Stefan


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## 99Limited

apicius9 said:


> ... As for 'you will forget the money in a month' - that may be true, but your wife will never forget
> 
> Stefan



Since I don't have a wife anymore, I don't have to worry about that. Unfortunately, I'm going to have a super humongous tax bill for 2014 that I've saved for. A one year anomaly.


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## daddy yo yo

DerSnap said:


> I was also looking at the Expobar but i got my ECM for about 800 Euros. It was a floor model that never got used, and people would rather have spent 3K euro for terrible automatic machines than the only good machine in the whole city. Loved it ever since.



Which ECM? The Technika? If you eher find such bargain again, PLEASE let me know, I'll even drive those 500km to get wherever necessary!


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## larrybard

apicius9 said:


> . . . .
> As for 'you will forget the money in a month' - that may be true, but your wife will never forget
> 
> Stefan



I'm beginning to think there ought to be a coffee mug inscribed with some of your quotes.


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## Vesteroid

I still drool over a machine or two that I see on the interwebs, but basically have my coffee down to a science at this point.

I have a r58 and a K10 PB and use a 18g vst basket with home roasted beans. I drop somewhere around 25 g in my 6 oz cup and use a small espro frothing pitcher to steam up a little milk, mix into a pretty shape and drink.

Oddly enough I do one cup on weekdays and two on weekend, and for the cost of those two machines, thats a ton of money per cup.

On the other hand, I am happy and am drinking what I like now each morning of my life, and that counts for something. I suppose its why I work, is to be able to have some of the things I want.


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## WildBoar

Vesteroid said:


> Oddly enough I do one cup on weekdays and two on weekend, and for the cost of those two machines, thats a ton of money per cup.


9 cups/ week would run you ~$30/ wk or $1,560/ yr. You are probably paying less than $15/ wk for beans, milk and electricity. So each year you are putting ~$800 towards the cost of that gear. You will be ahead many years before your equipment is no longer functional.

And the ritual of grinding/ brewing/ drinking is a nice relaxing start to the day; much better than standing in line at StarSucks. Hard to put the value on that, but to me it is pretty high.


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## DerSnap

daddy yo yo said:


> Which ECM? The Technika? If you eher find such bargain again, PLEASE let me know, I'll even drive those 500km to get wherever necessary!




Mechanika III

http://www.dersnap.com/snap-tools/k...ll-the-espresso-ecm-espresso-machine-360.html

If they had a second one I would have snapped it up in a second for the office. Never found a deal similar, but then again I have not been looking hard anymore as I am more than satisfied with this machine. If I change machines it would be custom model like a Kees Van Der Westen. Maybe someday when I build my own house with a studio when I sell a million records *dreams**


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## rahimlee54

I finally got a air popper and roasted my first batch of coffee. I wasn't sure if it actually went to second crack but it looked dark enough to me. I'll give it a try tomorrow.







I didn't realize it was that out of focus until now. You can get the idea though.


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## HHH Knives

Ahh This photo brings back memory's of when I roasted my first beans. 2 air poppers later. and now on my second real roaster. and Im LOVIN it! Have fun and enjoy! 
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


OK so what is the "Ninja" coffee brewer Im seeing commercials for on TV and will I like it? Guess Im gona find out as I am getting one for Christmas this year.  
I just spent some time looking at it online, and reading about what it does and I gota say im intrigued.. Sorta excited even.. I think its gona be alot of fun. Although, I dont think its gona replace my main brewer. But I do see it getting some use and possibly even attaining a permanent spot on my counter.. Based on what I see.. The functions, if they work as described are great. ALOT of bang for the buck, That said. The name NINJA leaves me wondering if the design and construction will be durable. 

Anyone have experience with these yet. thoughts. Input. good or bad. 
Im looking forward to hearing from you coffee nuts! and if I dont hear much. Once I get mine I will try and offer some info about this Ninja! 

Blessings
Randy


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## Gark

How did the coffee turn out? I have been thinking about roasting my own coffee for years but every time I researched it, it seems to get more and more expensive


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## HHH Knives

Update on the Coffee Ninja. It does everything they claim. and makes a good cup of coffee. Im stoked. and have been using it for a couple weeks as my morning brewer. And have made a few iced coffee drinks. The blender it comes with is also pretty slick and works great for the few things I have used it for so far. Still not sure its worth the money and or will last the test of time and use. But so far Im hopeful! 

Gark. Roasters are not cheap. but in my experience. are worth what ya pay for them if you decide to go this wrought. I just roasted 4 pounds of coffee. 2 Colombian and 2 Hawaiian yesterday and was thinking how many pounds I have roasted in mine in the last 2 years. Its paid for itself many times and brought me much pleasure, both in having fun roasting beans and in trying new coffees from around the globe. 

Have fun and God Bless
Randy


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## Gark

Thanks for the Advice, Randy! As far as value, I feel the same way about my espresso machine which costs over $2K but has paid for itself many times over already. I guess we never tell our wives how much we spend on our hobbies (for me guns, knives, motorcyles, espresso, photography....) I would probably be retired now if not for my hobbies : )


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## Gark

.... and another very expensive hobby is Whisky and witnessed by the Yamazaki 18 in front of me right now : )


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## Gark

.... okay, and fine cigars....... but who's counting.....


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## 99Limited

Gark said:


> .... I guess we never tell our wives how much we spend on our hobbies (for me guns, knives, motorcyles, espresso, photography....) I would probably be retired now if not for my hobbies : )



Wives know EVERYTHING. Good one just don't say anything until they need some leverage.


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## aaamax

99Limited said:


> Wives know EVERYTHING. Good one just don't say anything until they need some leverage.



+1
I'm with ya on that one.


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## Nomo4me

Waking this thread up for other forum newbs:

My longtime gear: Behmor roaster (3rd one, replaced motor and door is held closed by a bungee during roast. They are crap), Rocky grinder, 10 YO Technivorm brewer. Costa Rica Tres Rios Magnolia beans. I used to experiment and especially liked horse hide beans from Yemen. Now just want a consistent cup that isn't stale. 

Had the digital hot top, mid-range 'spresso machine, vac pots etc etc. Now I just like simple.


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## Quaints

SameGuy said:


> *I think I've (we've) said it before: it's easy to make great coffee with a so-so espresso machine and a good grinder, but it's hard to make good coffee with a great espresso machine and a so-so grinder. Spend a little extra money on the best grinder that fits your budget and you will get consistent results once you've dialed in all the parameters. Go with a cheap grinder (like I have) and despite your best efforts, great coffee and a good espresso maker, you'll probably only get one good pull out of three.
> 
> Start with a great grinder and a sturdy starter espresso maker like the Silvia v.3 or the Le'Lit P041 and you will be making consistently good shots for years before choosing to upgrade the espresso machine. If you really want even more consistency, get the factory-PIDed 041 or add an Auber Instruments PID to a Silvia and you may never choose to upgrade the machine (I've had my "temporary" Silvia for seven years and if I PID it I doubt I'll every upgrade).*




Which is the great grinder to use for this purpose or espresso machine is enough for this? if espresso is ok then which espresso would be best for this?


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## WildBoar

Quaints said:


> Which is the great grinder to use for this purpose or espresso machine is enough for this? if espresso is ok then which espresso would be best for this?


That is a confusing question. Are you thinking of some of the 'fully automatic' home espresso machines that have grinders built in? The post you quoted is a discussion about separates -- an espresso machine and a grinder. There are many good grinders for espresso. A Mazzer Super Jolly or relabeled variant (mine is an Astoria) is always a good bet, plus there are always a few used ones for sale online. Visit a seller like Chris's Coffee online and you will find several good makes/ models of grinders optimized for espresso.


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