# Spyderco Murray Carter Signature Series



## Nikabrik (Mar 2, 2019)

This looks interesting:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Buhb5z4lmno/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=12fmg0h4qoor5

Murray Carter Signature Series, produced by Spyderco.

I wonder if this is actually produced by Spyderco, or produced by Masahiro for Spyderco, in MBS-26.

In either case, I'm really curious to see what price and features will be.


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## Barmoley (Mar 2, 2019)

That sounds really interesting. I am a fan of both Murray and Spyderco.


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## inferno (Mar 2, 2019)

spyderco has many factories producing for them, I actually dont know if there is any real spyderco factory at all. maybe golden colorado?? 

both spyderco and fällkniven has made kitchen knives before (and I guess these are not very good compared to real stuff). but if they copy a good known pattern I guess these can be very good. 

Allinall i dont think spyderco makes very good knives at all out of the box. and the HT is only so so from what i have read. not really optimal for the steel at hand. I do know that they have the CAPACITY of making totally badass stuff if they want to. and massproducing this too. if they want to that is. I guess we will see.


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## Barmoley (Mar 2, 2019)

I don’t know what your experience with Spyderco is like, but mine has been very positive. I’ve tried a lot of their knives in many different steels and I wouldn’t say that their heat treat is not optimal, they are a mass producer and have to take into account that most of their customers are not knife enthusiast and don’t use or sharpen knives “correctly”. Sure you could improve on the heat treat, grind, etc if you made one knife at a time, but they mass produce so can’t push heat treats and grinds quiet as far. For a mass producer they are very good, in my experience.


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## Nikabrik (Mar 2, 2019)

My understanding is that they work closely with Phil Wilson on some of their HT, and he's done some impressive things with CPM steels in particular. I think they get into a lot of boutique steels that other mass production makers don't, especially with sprint runs and the Mule Team line. I'm thinking they're probably a great fit to do this line.

My understanding is that they're kitchen knife line is all MBS-26 and done by Masahiro, which is why I mentioned that in the first post, but this could also be produced elsewhere, and even from different steels. It's very interesting that they've done some knives in aogami super...


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## Ruso (Mar 2, 2019)

I have very positive experimce with Spyderco and their’s folders. 
I am excited about this collaboration.


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## parbaked (Mar 2, 2019)

Spyderco actually introduced the first commercial santoku to the US market in the early 1980s.
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/K08BK/Santoku/67


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## Barmoley (Mar 2, 2019)

There was talk of them producing their new kitchen knives in CTS-BD1N don't know if that has anything to do with Carter series, but might be a different manufacturer.


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## Larrin (Mar 2, 2019)

Spyderco knives made in the USA are marked Golden, CO. They have Japan marked on them if made in Japan.


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## KenHash (Mar 2, 2019)

Larrin said:


> Spyderco knives made in the USA are marked Golden, CO. They have Japan marked on them if made in Japan.



Actually they say "Seki City Japan".


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## Larrin (Mar 2, 2019)

KenHash said:


> Actually they say "Seki City Japan".


Sorry I wasn't being specific about what the marking says just that they are differentiated.


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## inferno (Mar 2, 2019)

Nikabrik said:


> My understanding is that they work closely with Phil Wilson on some of their HT,



i kinda ****ing doubt that. phil does trial and error of most cpm steels. phil does optimal ht, spyderco has never done that. just saying. they would be better off letting larrin deciede the HT procedure of this line imo. or me. I can surely decide whats the best compromise for their steel. and so so can many others. But they have never ever done this. so its all semi ******.


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## KenHash (Mar 2, 2019)

Larrin said:


> Sorry I wasn't being specific about what the marking says just that they are differentiated.



OK


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## inferno (Mar 2, 2019)

Larrin said:


> Sorry I wasn't being specific about what the marking says just that they are differentiated.


larrin can you talk them straight this time?


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## Ruso (Mar 2, 2019)

inferno said:


> i kinda ****ing doubt that. phil does trial and error of most cpm steels. phil does optimal ht, spyderco has never done that. just saying. they would be better off letting larrin deciede the HT procedure of this line imo. or me. I can surely decide whats the best compromise for their steel. and so so can many others. But they have never ever done this. so its all semi ******.



Talking like a true amateur. Keep it up buddy.


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## Barmoley (Mar 2, 2019)

Ruso said:


> Talking like a true amateur. Keep it up buddy.


He drinks and replies from time to time, this is one of these times. Don’t hold it against him


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## inferno (Mar 2, 2019)

Ruso said:


> Talking like a true amateur. Keep it up buddy.


i will


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## inferno (Mar 2, 2019)

fwiw i have followed phil wilsons posts on BF since like 2002, but yeah i have not read any of his posts from the last 5 years or so. But i still kinda doubt he will make spyderco choose this or that HT regiment. highly unlikely. not one single spydefco knife that i know of has been HT'ed to the max so why would these be?? not gonna happen imo.


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## HRC_64 (Mar 2, 2019)

I would think murray carter's designs are also typically
thin/lasery and with his name on it maybe they will
small batch heat treat or something.

Lets see what they do.

IMHO they don't need to be heat treated to the max 
just need to be 61-62 and not the usual 59.


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## inferno (Mar 2, 2019)

I myself have no Murray Carter knives, but I know he is one of the best regarded makers on here.

Spyderco have designs from maybe 1-200 or so different smiths/knifemakers. In like 30-40 different steels.

And I dont think any one of those had any say on the HT and/or steel choice of their licensed models. So why would this happen now all the sudden??

I would love to have either phil wilson or murray carter to deciede steel and HT. but how likely is that to happen really?


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## Interapid101 (Mar 2, 2019)

Very excited to see what they are offering. I have nothing but (justifiably I think) the highest expectations of Murray Carter and Sal Glesser. Cant think of any other mass producer of folders with better QC, innovation, or ability to develop and work with a variety of steel than Spyderco.


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## Nikabrik (Mar 3, 2019)

Something interesting - I just remembered that Murray Carter sold off his Shiro line (made in Japan) at the end of 2018, saying that he was moving his business model from imported to all American. That makes me think that maybe the Spyderco line is the replacement - and if so, it would be logical that it would be made in Colorado rather than elsewhere.


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## HRC_64 (Mar 3, 2019)

inferno said:


> Spyderco have designs from maybe 1-200 or so different smiths/knifemakers. In like 30-40 different steels.
> And I dont think any one of those had any say on the HT and/or steel choice of their licensed models. So why would this happen now all the sudden??



I was assuming they are made in seki by masahiro, but in any event, 
each line of knives gets HT (see: various steels) already...


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## McMan (Mar 3, 2019)

Looks like the Carter Spydercos are going to be AS clad in 410ss... I wonder who is going to be the OEM for these?
Seems like a smart move for Murray--instead of starting a factory line, partnering with spyderco gets him a broader consumer base, name recognition, and a ton of marketing oooomph.


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## parbaked (Mar 3, 2019)

McMan said:


> Seems like a smart move for Murray--instead of starting a factory line, partnering with spyderco gets him a broader consumer base, name recognition, and a ton of marketing oooomph.


And a lot less headaches....


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## HRC_64 (Mar 3, 2019)

I can see them taking market share from cutco and similar brands
sypederco people probably can sell into outdoor enthusiast market effectively
pretty large market that might not overlap with williams sonoma
but still value decent knives.


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## parbaked (Mar 3, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> I can see them taking market share from cutco and similar brands
> sypederco people probably can sell into outdoor enthusiast market effectively
> pretty large market that might not overlap with williams sonoma
> but still value decent knives.



Spyderco's largest retailers also sell kitchen knives Wusthof, Zwilling J A Henckel, Global etc...so they will get good exposure to a market that likes good knives and might not shop at Williams Sonoma, Sui La table or other sources for decent knives.
IMO, Spyderco wouldn't be doing this if their key retailers weren't asking for it....
https://www.knifecenter.com/shop/kitchen-knives


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## applepieforbreakfast (Oct 31, 2019)

These are available now.
AS clad with SS, full flat grind, G-10 handle and ferrule.

Total package is a hard pass.
Only redeeming thing is blade steel.

https://www.gpknives.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=itamae


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## M1k3 (Oct 31, 2019)

applepieforbreakfast said:


> These are available now.
> AS clad with SS, full flat grind, G-10 handle and ferrule.
> 
> Total package is a hard pass.
> ...



Wow, guess he changed his mind about only using White steel? And yeah, hard pass on these for me.


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## Matus (Oct 31, 2019)

The full flat grind is a bummer


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## Barmoley (Oct 31, 2019)

Must’ve been easier for spyderco to produce, otherwise kind of strange to use full flat grind on gyutos. The whole collaboration is weird. Not his preferred steel and not his grind. I guess the profile is kind of his, so that’s the collaboration part.


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## Interapid101 (Oct 31, 2019)

I love Spyderco but sometimes they really **** it up. This is one of those rare occasions. Sal and Murray, you'll be embarrassed yo put your name on these if you aren't already.


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## McMan (Oct 31, 2019)

The flat-grind really is weird, considering that nice convex is a hallmark of Murray's style.
I'm surprised by the pricing. $400 for a factory-made gyuto is steep and puts it with some serious hand-forged competition.
I had imagined this at about $250 and not flat-ground... Oh well.


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## Nikabrik (Oct 31, 2019)

Wow, disappointing. I'm guessing these must be targeted at Spyderco fans who are thinking of putting something nice in their kitchen.


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 31, 2019)

Anyone familiar with Murray's work is going to give these a wide berth. Yet another money grab by Carter Inc......


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## inferno (Oct 31, 2019)

hmm 350 for this:






i spent about 37 seconds finding 2 other similar knives in ss clad AS
170 bucks and 210 on CC and JCK. 
so now i wonder whats so special about the carter?? i dont get it. at 150-200 or so maybe but 350?? really?


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## M1k3 (Oct 31, 2019)

inferno said:


> hmm 350 for this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It has his name! I bet I know why Murray did this.








$$$$$$


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## inferno (Oct 31, 2019)

lol


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## M1k3 (Oct 31, 2019)

Oh, also, Nanohone.


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## Interapid101 (Oct 31, 2019)

Ouch.


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## inferno (Oct 31, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> Oh, also, Nanohone.



soon to be "carter abrasives"


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## M1k3 (Oct 31, 2019)

inferno said:


> soon to be "carter abrasives"



Nah, I don't see that happening. I do see the "Murray Carter Edition" coming out though. Sold through Carter Knives and Marketing.


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## Nikabrik (Oct 31, 2019)

I did see that the Itamae line is the high end of Spyderco's "Carter Collection". I also saw pictures of similar-profiled knives with one-piece handles, so perhaps there's a future love that will be sightly less expensive.


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## applepieforbreakfast (Oct 31, 2019)

Nikabrik said:


> I did see that the Itamae line is the high end of Spyderco's "Carter Collection". I also saw pictures of similar-profiled knives with one-piece handles, so perhaps there's a future love that will be sightly less expensive.



https://www.gpknives.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Wakiita






Still full flat ground, one piece G-10 handle.


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## M1k3 (Oct 31, 2019)

And none in White steel, hmm...


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## inferno (Oct 31, 2019)

its silver. isnt that almost the same?


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## Barclid (Oct 31, 2019)

Saw these at blade show ATL this year. Blades were warped and profiles were over-ground in spots, showing recurve. When I pointed it out, they seemed surprised. Disappointing level of detail, given the price. I liked the handles better than I thought I would.


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## M1k3 (Oct 31, 2019)




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## applepieforbreakfast (Oct 31, 2019)

Barclid said:


> Saw these at blade show ATL this year. Blades were warped and profiles were over-ground in spots, showing recurve. When I pointed it out, they seemed surprised. Disappointing level of detail, given the price. I liked the handles better than I thought I would.



I wonder if they were surprised that the blades were messed up or surprised that someone actually noticed?


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## bahamaroot (Oct 31, 2019)

Definitely the latter...


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 2, 2019)

Wow. Would love to see the competition this knife was up against
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4YPgA1g47w/


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## Matus (Nov 2, 2019)

That’s what I thought when I saw that post on FB


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## Barmoley (Nov 2, 2019)

To be fair as far as production kitchen knives go it might be the best, what else is out there in this market segment? It’s not like they test performance with these awards. If it wasn’t full flat grind it might’ve been pretty good, if a bit too expensive for production.


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 2, 2019)

Just saw the Kamikoto ad on YT. Chef was cutting meat with the petty. LOL. They looked pretty good


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## Noodle Soup (Nov 2, 2019)

I handled the new Carter/Spyderco knives at Blade Show West yesterday. Not a big fan of the fancy handle material but I but I see no point in a handle that can't take a few knocks around a working kitchen. Most American customs have way too fancy of handles for my taste too. The Nakri looked good blade wise but time will tell about the price point. Obviously, the goal is to use Murray's name to make both of them a little money. The average Japanese smith has about zero name recognition in the U.S. with most home users.


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## Larrin (Nov 2, 2019)

What is so terrible about a full flat grind?


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 2, 2019)

Larrin said:


> What is so terrible about a full flat grind?


I'm assuming food release


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## Barmoley (Nov 2, 2019)

Yep. Very sticky with wet stuff. Fine with hard stuff.


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## M1k3 (Nov 2, 2019)

Larrin said:


> What is so terrible about a full flat grind?



Stiction, especially with potatoes that have been soaked in water and are cold.


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## Ben.G. (Nov 3, 2019)

The 2nd annual BLADE Show West 2019 factory and custom knife awards were bestowed on Saturday, Nov. 2, 2019, at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland.

In the Factory Knife Awards, the Spyderco Bunka Bocho (Murray Carter collaboration) won Best in Show and Best Kitchen Knife.


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## Nikabrik (Nov 3, 2019)

Competition at the show is mainly Bradford's M390 chef knife, Ferrum Technology's MIM chef knife and some Italian knife that didn't even look like a kitchen knife. The Ferrum knife was interesting, partly just because of its MIM blade (their previous knives had MIM bolsters, but not blades) - but mainly because that enables them to make a production S-grind knife in the $100 price range. It also won best kitchen knife, as did the weird Italian one. I wasn't particularly wowed by the profile or hardness, however. The Bradford had a nice profile, and was at 61HRC, but the blade was coated and it seemed to be a flat grind.


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## Iggy (Nov 3, 2019)

Larrin said:


> What is so terrible about a full flat grind?



Yep, food release would be the big issue, not only with potatoes but with nearly every vegetable that tends to stick on the blade.

IMHO a full flat ground kitchen knife is basically useless...


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## DevinT (Nov 3, 2019)

Nikabrik said:


> Competition at the show is mainly Bradford's M390 chef knife, Ferrum Technology's MIM chef knife and some Italian knife that didn't even look like a kitchen knife. The Ferrum knife was interesting, partly just because of its MIM blade (their previous knives had MIM bolsters, but not blades) - but mainly because that enables them to make a production S-grind knife in the $100 price range. It also won best kitchen knife, as did the weird Italian one. I wasn't particularly wowed by the profile or hardness, however. The Bradford had a nice profile, and was at 61HRC, but the blade was coated and it seemed to be a flat grind.



What is MlM? 
Hoss


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## NO ChoP! (Nov 3, 2019)

Metal injection molding? In the 1911 pistol world, MiM is a swear word.


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## NO ChoP! (Nov 3, 2019)

I always found Spyderco to have a much thinner grind, more accute edge, and higher hardness than the competition; Benchmade and ZT. Makes them more palatable and useful in a kitchen setting. I really like my Endura in ZDP-189. 

I guess I had lofty hopes of this collaboration. What a bummer.


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## Noodle Soup (Nov 3, 2019)

That Italian knife came from a company famous for Spec Ops military knives in Europe and other places. The rep button holed me and wanted to know if I could give him a contact with certain American military units. Sorry, no can do.


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## XooMG (Nov 3, 2019)

Iggy said:


> Yep, food release would be the big issue, not only with potatoes but with nearly every vegetable that tends to stick on the blade.
> 
> IMHO a full flat ground kitchen knife is basically useless...


I wonder if folks are perhaps conflating flat _in general concept_ with flat _in execution._ Many knives that are conceptually flat are convex, hollow, or compound-ground in practice.

I haven't seen any of the Spyderco knives and don't know how they're ground, but I'm not going to presume that their sales copy "FFG", which just meant a full edge-spine grind on some knives like my Delica, is a precise nuanced description of the cutting geometry for the kitchen knife enthusiast.


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## Barmoley (Nov 3, 2019)

XooMG said:


> I wonder if folks are perhaps conflating flat _in general concept_ with flat _in execution._ Many knives that are conceptually flat are convex, hollow, or compound-ground in practice.
> 
> I haven't seen any of the Spyderco knives and don't know how they're ground, but I'm not going to presume that their sales copy "FFG", which just meant a full edge-spine grind on some knives like my Delica, is a precise nuanced description of the cutting geometry for the kitchen knife enthusiast.


I am reserving my judgement until a few people try these. If these are indeed not full flat ground as they are described then maybe they will be good. We are only going by the company description. From my previous experience with many, many Spyderco knives, the ones that are described as full flat grind are just that, but maybe these are different. FFG can work fine in narrow blades, but for tall blades it is not ideal in the kitchen and these are not exactly cheap knives. I hope these work out, as I am a fan of both Carter and Spyderco, but at least the marketing material raises some doubts.


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## Larrin (Nov 3, 2019)

I heard that the knives are actually convex.


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## Barmoley (Nov 3, 2019)

Larrin said:


> I heard that the knives are actually convex.


Great if so, very strange to call them FFG if they are in fact convex, better not to say anything I would think. They are probably trying to attract the folder, outdoor, “tactical” crowd, basically their core market segment that likes and asks for full flat grind.


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## Interapid101 (Nov 3, 2019)

XooMG said:


> I wonder if folks are perhaps conflating flat _in general concept_ with flat _in execution._ Many knives that are conceptually flat are convex, hollow, or compound-ground in practice.
> 
> I haven't seen any of the Spyderco knives and don't know how they're ground, but I'm not going to presume that their sales copy "FFG", which just meant a full edge-spine grind on some knives like my Delica, is a precise nuanced description of the cutting geometry for the kitchen knife enthusiast.



This is true for blades ground on belts even against against a platen. I believe the stock removal on Spyderco full flat ground folders isn't done that way, at least the Golden CO blades like the militaries, the paras, and the older UKPKs. They are fly cut on a mill, so the blade is truly flat on the sides. Some of the Seki City blades, if not all, are also done like that. If you look at the blades closely, you can see the fly cutting marks and the (very large) radius of the cut at the ricasso. Hopefully these aren't manufactured that way so there is some convexity.


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## Eloh (Nov 4, 2019)

Even if it's a really good performer, at that pricepoint it's gonna be hard to convince people with a bit of kitchen knife knowledge to buy them. You can get a stainless clad AS laser with a good, convex grind for $150.


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