# Pizza sauce/dough recipes?



## Audi's or knives (Mar 23, 2011)

As the title states, does anyone have any good pizza sauce/dough recipes, now that it is getting nice out I'd like to try making some on the grill. Tried a test and I can get the heat on the grill up past 750ºF, should make for a nice crisp crust. If anyone is willing to share a recipe they like I'd appreciate, I plan on experimenting and if I find a good recipe I'll post up.

Thanks
Dan


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## SpikeC (Mar 23, 2011)

This is the official government recipe, with the substitution of 2 kinds of flour in place of the sometimes hard to find 00 flour from Italy. 

Neapolitan Dough

*1 1/2 cups warn water (105-115 degrees)
*1 teaspoon dry yeast (that's right, 1 teaspoon!)

3 cups all-purpose flour	
1 cup cake flour 1 T. sea salt

*Combine water and yeast, proof for 5-8 minutes.
Mix flours and salt in stand mixer with dough hook.
Add yeast mixture to flour and knead at low speed for 30 minutes
Shape dough into a round, place in lightly oiled bowl, turn to coat.
*Cover bowl with plastic wrap and let rise for 4 hours in a warm spot. Punch down and divide into 2 or 4 pieces,
shape into balls. Brush lightly with oil, cover with plastic wrap and let rise another 2-4 hours.
*Shape by pressing fingertips into dough, leaving edge puffy to create a rim. Grasp rim with your hands,
working your way around the circle. As the dough dangles it stretches while the edge stays plump.
*Or you can roll it out with a rolling pin for a nice thin crust.*

**


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## UnConundrum (Mar 23, 2011)

First off, remember that most pizza is comprised of simple recipes. That means that quality ingredients are very important. I assume you live near/in Philly. If you live North, Bova Foods, near Montgomeryville handles the 28 oz. cans of 6 in 1 tomatoes. They're the best for sauce. (well, 7/11 is a tie IMHO). If you're not close, you can buy direct from Escalon HERE. My recipe is simply tomatoes, salt, sugar, and basil. You can find the details HERE







Now, dough is another thing. There are many, many recipes for many, many styles. I like a Neapolitan like Spike, but I use baker's math instead of a recipe.... more of a formula, and I make my dough by hand without kneading. The formula is 100% flour, 80% water, 2% salt and .3% yeast (or less). Once again, the flour you use is important. I use different flour depending on the temperature I'm baking at. 500-600F I use King Arthur High Gluten (you could substitute their bread flour that may be more available to you). 700-800 I use King Arthur All Purpose flour. Above 800, I use Caputo flour imported from Italy (You can buy that at Bova too). 

With the dough, procedure is as important as the ingredients and the recipe. A long slow fermentation is best, and even better yet is using a natural levain (sourdough). If using yeast, the longer you want to go in the fermentation the less yeast you use. The idea is to let the fermentation develop flavor in the dough. Letting a dough sit 24 - 48 hours is not unusual for those really into their pizza. I've done that several times, but rarely know I'll be in the mood for pizza that much in advance. If I want a same day dough, I'll follow the procedure I've set out in my baguette recipe recipe and a lot of step by step pictures here. Another recipe of mine with pictures of making the pizza on a BGE is HERE. 











Or, you could show up at the ECG and we'll make some pizzas together


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## SpikeC (Mar 23, 2011)

About that time thing--When I make the above recipe I make a pizza with half of it and put the other half in the refrigerator to use the next day. The second day it is better!
I'm lazy about sauce, I'll often use leftover spaghetti sauce!


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## apicius9 (Mar 23, 2011)

Having eaten his pizza, I would say just do whatever Warren tells you. 

Stefan


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## StephanFowler (Mar 23, 2011)

Pizza has always been one of my favorite things to make, I've been doing it for nearly 20 years now.

(in fact my avatar is me getting ready to toss a crust)

I never have had a recipe for the dough, it's always just been what I was taught and memorized from my Mom.

Recipe is per 1 pizza baked in a standard kitchen oven on a 12x20 baking sheet
1 cup of tepid water
1/2 tsp salt
1 heaping tablespoon sugar
1 tsp yeast
proof the above until yeast bubbles
add flour until the dough feels right.... (I've always likened it to a particularly fine booty, firm but not hard, very smooth skinned)

roll/toss/etc to pizza shape desired
I brush with olive oil and pre-cook the dough slightly at 350 for 10 minutes before topping. mostly because I could never manage to get the dough too cook thoroughly once sauced. and precooking a little give's me the crispness I wanted.

probably heresy from a traditional standpoint but it's what I've always done.


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## wenus2 (Mar 24, 2011)

Some pretty good advice so far. 
I've become a pretty hard core pizza guy over the past few years, trying to take full advantage of the brick oven.
My love affair actually got started at a traditional pizza joint in Miami Beach and then blossomed at Kens Artisan Pizza in Portland, OR. I bet I ate there a couple of times a month for the couple of years I lived there. 
As was mentioned good pizza is all about the ingredients, and (generally) the more simple you keep your pizza, the better it will taste. The toughest lesson to learn was "less is more." If you pile on the toppings they just don't ring through like they otherwise would.
The single greatest improvement to my pizza was when I made the move from King Arthur flour to Molino Caputo 00 flour (I'm baking at 8-900F).
Use D.O.P. certified San Marzano tomatoes. 
Use fresh mozzarella - strain overnight on cheese cloth, over a bowl, covered. 
Use fresh basil - I prefer to add it to the pizza just as it comes out of the oven.


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## UnConundrum (Mar 24, 2011)

You must mean like this one


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## spinblue (Mar 24, 2011)

SpikeC said:


> Mix flours and salt in stand mixer with dough hook.
> Add yeast mixture to flour and knead at low speed for 30 minutes



Spike,
Knead for 30 minutes, that seems like a really long time. I have no issue trying it but just wanted to make sure. Thx


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## StephanFowler (Mar 24, 2011)

spinblue said:


> Spike,
> Knead for 30 minutes, that seems like a really long time. I have no issue trying it but just wanted to make sure. Thx


 
depends on how you want to build up the gluten in the dough, I usually kneed by hand for a good 15 minutes (I was taught the warmth from my hands was important)


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## SpikeC (Mar 24, 2011)

The Italian government recommends using a stand mixer because of the 30 minute kneading. I also mostly cook in a 500º oven on a pizza stone on the bottom rack, unless I'm using the BGE.


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## Craig (Mar 24, 2011)

Seems like I haven't been kneading my pizza dough enough. I'll have to give this a shot in the mixer sometime, as I've never been that thrilled with the crusts I make myself. They typically seem somewhat like thick pitas, I could never get the kind of rise out of them I want.


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## chazmtb (Mar 24, 2011)

All this talk takes me back to my youth, working at a pizzaria and delivery boy. 

I'm looking around to get a Cordierite stone for my oven to start making some home made pizzas.


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## so_sleepy (Mar 24, 2011)

I use Peter Rienhart's recipe. I don't have it in front of me but it is about 70% hydration 1% yeast and some salt.
There isn't much kneading. You do four cycles of kneading for 2 minutes and rest for 10.
The neat part is that you retard the rise by keeping the dough in the fridge. you have four days to use it with the best flavor on day 3. When you are ready to bake you just proof the dough for 90 minutes and shape it. 
I bake in the oven at 550 I'm using a cast iron "pizza stone" that makes a great crispy crust.


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## UnConundrum (Mar 24, 2011)

You can't make a 80% hydration dough in the mixer. Well, you can, but you'll have close to a batter and not a dough that comes together like by hand... The added hydration adds to the lightness of the dough as the water expands, turns to steam, and evaporates.


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## apicius9 (Mar 24, 2011)

chazmtb said:


> All this talk takes me back to my youth, working at a pizzaria and delivery boy.
> 
> I'm looking around to get a *Cordierite stone* for my oven to start making some home made pizzas.


 

Okay, time to expand my vocabulary: What on earth is this? I still haven't gotten my act together to get a stone for the oven, I was thinking granite because my local HD doesn't even have fire bricks (I guess they don't build too many fire places in Hawaii...). But I am still open to alternatives as long as I don't have to ship them in for a fortune...

Stefan


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## chazmtb (Mar 25, 2011)

Stefan,
The material is high temperature ceramic mineral mix that is used to line kiln and commercial baking ovens. They are known as kiln shelves. Cost around 40 for a 20x20x.75 shelf. There are other sizes and round ones too. A 15" round is around 20. Check them out at your local pottery supply store. Make sure it is an entreated kind. It is heavy. I am going to cut mine down to a 20x16 size to fit my oven. Heat it up for an hour at 500 and you are ready to go. These are more durable than pizza stones and don't tend to crack.


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## mhlee (Mar 25, 2011)

Nice crust!

Personally, I use a modified no-knead pizza recipe started by Jim Lahey. It's easy to make because it doesn't require kneading the dough. However, it's hard to work with because it's extremely wet and is best after a three (3) day cold rise so you can't make it and cook it the same day. 

My trick to using this wet dough is to flour it heavily on the outside after taking it out of the refrigerator, and then shaping the dough on parchment paper. Because it's so wet, it will stick in about one (1) minute after putting it on a peel if it's not really heavily floured on the bottom (which can also lead to a floury bottom - not good). I use a pizza stone in my DCS stove cranked up to 550 and I get a pretty good crust still. Nothing like a BGE or wood oven, but it's good enough for me until I'm able to get either a BGE (or similar cooker) or a wood oven (after a sack of money falls out of the sky into my lap).

I highly recommend checking out Slice on seriouseats.com. They have great recipes for all things pizza, including a homemade sausage receipe I need to try as well as various pizza sauce recipes and dough recipes for all types of pizza, e.g. Sicilian, Neopolitan, and reviews of brands of cheese. There are also pizza making forums as well that can assist you.


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## mhlee (Mar 25, 2011)

Or let them rise longer. Try letting them rise in the refrigerator after kneading for a day.


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## chazmtb (Mar 25, 2011)

Stefan,

Don't use granite. They tend to crack easily if heated. If you want, go get a unglazed Terra Cotta planter dish at Home Depot. I think there are 15" rounds that fit most ovens. It is not ideal, but it might work. The kiln shelf are the best options. There has to be something in Oahu that sells pottery supplies.


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## Audi's or knives (Mar 25, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies. From what I have been reading (as people have pointed out) is using a high hydration dough (around 75%), using a sourdough starter and doing cold rises in the fridge. And there is no substitute for fresh mozzerella in my opinion, plenty of good cheese shops here in Philly. Will there be any textural difference using KA bread flour vs Caputo, I've read that the Caputo is very fine and can give bad results. I am laid off at the moment so I have plenty off time to experiment and eat pizza.

Warren, that is exactly the crust rise/texture I hope to achieve and your comments are greatly appreciated. Yes I am in Philly and have access to those ingredients, as well as the San Marzano and Basil I grow in my garden, well not yet but hopefully weather warms up and I can get planting in the next month. I would love to come to the ECG but have prior commitments, I'll take you up on the offer for next year though. Have you experimented with different tomato brands and found that one the best?

Time to buy a couple more pizza stones and get cracking on this.


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## UnConundrum (Mar 25, 2011)

I've tried a few. The San Marzanos never did much for me.... I tried a few different brands. The 6 in 1's are made from top quality, vine ripened, California tomatoes which are pretty hard to beat. Try a can.

Also, no one has mentioned it yet, so I will. There's another excellent forum out there, www.pizzamaking.com Tremendous knowledge and friendly people there. Highly recommended for the pizza nuts among us


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## wenus2 (Mar 25, 2011)

UnConundrum said:


> You must mean like this one



Aye, tis an Alan Scott style oven...





I use a 20x15 Fibrament stone in my home oven, I like it quite well. Was around $80 iirc, but that was years ago and it's more than paid for itself; barring I drop it or something, it's unlikely I will have to replace it for a long time to come. I got mine from Pleasant Hill Grain, great company. They also sold me a Bosch Universal when my sourdough insanity snapped the drive shaft in half on my (6 months old) 600w Kitchenaid pro, the Bosch makes the Kitchenaid look like really bad, I highly recommend it. I will also buy my Vacmaster 112 from them as soon as I can justufy it to the sous vide gods 

Some tomatoes are better than others, no doubt about that. 
I have had good results with the Strianese D.O.P. San Marzano's, also with the domestic brand Mur Glen.


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## Audi's or knives (Mar 25, 2011)

That is a sweet brick oven up above there, wish I had room in the yard for an outdoor kitchen with intergrated pizza oven, grill, smoker and bar area; guess I can dream.

I've used the Strianese before, I also stock up on 28oz cans of Jersey Fresh crushed tomatoes (have 3 cases in the basement) at the end of the summer, there pretty good if any sees a can give them a try. Def gonna give the 6 in 1 a try.

Got any favorite pizza joints. My go to places are Vince's in NE Philly (local spot, family spinoff of Charlie's if any local remembers the TV commercial), Taconelli's and Osteria (when I want a fancy $$$ pizza), Dilorenzo's and Freddie's in Trenton area. Planning on making a trip up to Pepe's/Sally's in CT when I do a Phils vs Mets roadtrip in NY.


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## rahimlee54 (Apr 8, 2011)

Anyone else having problems with Warren's links? In fact I cant even get on the entire website.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 8, 2011)

rahimlee54 said:


> Anyone else having problems with Warren's links? In fact I cant even get on the entire website.


 
The links are OK, but the website they point to is having problems.


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## tgraypots (Apr 8, 2011)

1-1/2 tablespoons instant yeast
1-1/2 tablespoons kosher salt
1 tablespoon sugar or honey
6-1/2 cups unbleached all-purpose flour
2 & 3/4 cups of room temperature water
1/4 cup of olive oil

This is another cold-fermentation recipe, and if that seems like too much yeast for you, use what you want and wait until it doubles before placing the batch in the fridge. Enough for 4 - 10" crusts.

I use an old hi-alumina kiln shelf that had cracked on one end. Chopped off the bad end and keep it in the oven pretty much all the time. I use this same recipe on the grill, and will probably use it in the brick oven too, once it's up and running.

I seldom use a red sauce anymore, preferring slow roasted paste tomatoes, basil pesto or roasted garlic paste, all from stuff grown in my garden.


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## cnochef (Apr 8, 2011)

UnConundrum said:


> I've tried a few. The San Marzanos never did much for me.... I tried a few different brands. The 6 in 1's are made from top quality, vine ripened, California tomatoes which are pretty hard to beat. Try a can.



I agree, San Marzano Tomatoes are a victim of their own success and nowhere near the product they used to be. Most cans I have bought in the last few years contain less tomato and way more juice. Then there is the problem of counterfeit products, believe it or not, and brands that lead you to believe they are genuine by putting phrases like "San Marzano type" on their labels. I always use 6in1 tomatoes from Cali too.


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## cnochef (Apr 8, 2011)

Some of my tips for you:

1) I use 00 or at least a high quality bread flour like KA, a fermentation of at least 24 hours in the fridge is necessary to develop the dough.
2) A couple of tablespoons of olive oil in your dough adds great flavor. I make my own chile, garlic and herb oil for this purpose.
3) I also brush this oil on the exposed dough before I put it in the oven to bake, it keeps the crust from drying out too much during baking.
4) I make my pizza on a square of parchment paper, then transfer it onto the stone in the oven with my peel, bake for a couple of minutes, then use the peel to remove the parchment paper and let the pizza sit directly on the stone for the remaining 6-7 minutes of baking time. This is much easier than trying to slide the pizza onto the stone with a floured peel.
5) Match your tomato sauce to the rest of the toppings on your pizza. For example, if I'm making a simple Margherita pizza, the "sauce" will be nothing more than crushed raw tomatoes. However, something more substantial like a sausage and mushroom pizza demands a cooked sauce with a lot of garlic and herbs. 
6) Fresh mozzarella, buffalo milk mozza and even burrata are great cheeses to use on your pizza. If I'm making a more North American style of pizza, I will use a 50/50 blend of full-fat and part-skim mozza with some parm dusted on top to help it brown nicely.


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## tgraypots (Apr 8, 2011)

I've used parchment paper as well, but have recently transferred my grilled pie techniques to my kitchen oven. I shape the dough, paint on olive oil, pick it up and flip it onto the kiln shelf in the oven. After a few minutes of baking I pick it up with tongs, paint the other side with oil, flip it, top it, and place back in the oven for a few more minutes. 




Garlic paste, ham and cheese, sliced potatoes and rosemary.


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## cnochef (Apr 8, 2011)

When I get back from vacation, I promise I'll share some photos of my pizzas with y'all.


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## Craig (May 12, 2011)

SpikeC said:


> This is the official government recipe, with the substitution of 2 kinds of flour in place of the sometimes hard to find 00 flour from Italy.
> 
> Neapolitan Dough
> 
> ...


 
I've got some people coming over Friday night for pizza, which I have promised to make for them. I'm struggling a little with the logistics though, as I work a 9-5 and folks are coming over at 7. Is there a problem with this plan:

- Make the dough with the ingredients above, and do the 4 hour rise as described
- Shape into balls, brush with oil and cover with plastic wrap as described
- Instead of another 2-4 hour rise, let it sit in the fridge for about 20 hours. Or would it be better to give it both rises the night before, then refrigerate?


Also, since I'm planning on doing 4 pizzas and I'd like them to all come out relatively close together, would it be bad to give all the 4 crusts a 8 or so minute pre-cook before topping any? That would let me knock them all out in pretty quick succession once people show up, but I'm not sure what cooking then allowing to cool then cooking again would do to the end product.


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## aaronsgibson (May 12, 2011)

That is the normal recipe I do, do mine a little different but that is basically it. You do need to knead it for 30 mins though. I've tried 10-15 and the crust isn't as chewy as if you let it go for 30. As for fridge time, you can get away with easily doing it three days ahead no problem I do that all the time and it gives the crust more flavor, but one day or over night is also cool. Oh and I put mine in the fridge after its finished kneading cover with plastic. As for your last part about pre-cooking them I don't and I've done this for a 100 people once (and didn't blow my brains out) but if you ask me let your pie sit and cool for a good 10 minutes or so. Cleaner cuts and also won't burn the hell out of your mouth. Someone on here might have done it in the way your thinking but if it were me I would just pound them all out and server them as they finish. And also if you use a rolling pin you really wont have a great edge crust because you flatten it but if you're not up for tossing them it works out good and it will be even. Hope this helps.


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## MadMel (May 12, 2011)

This is the recipe I used at my previous workplace. The dough can be kept for 3 days in the refridgerator. Just place a moistened towel on top and cover with cling film.

7200g mid-protein content flour
4000g water (cold, not freezing)
250g salt
120g olive oil
11g yeast (live yeast)

Flour and yeast goes in first. When its well mixed, add the water and salt. drizzle in oil last. We mix it in the machine for about 15-20 minutes. Shape into a large ball, cover with a wet towel and rest the dough for 20 mins. After that cut portions of 90 to 110 grams depending on how big you want your pizza to be. Round into balls. They can now be stored. Remove from refridgerator anywhere from 15 minutes to 1 hour before use, depending on the weather: temperature, humidity etc High temperature means you can remove them later.
As for the sauce, we use canned tomatoes and taste them before deciding on how much fresh tomatoes to add. It actually depends on how sweet/sour you want your sauce to be. Basic seasoning like salt, pepper, basil, dried oregano and believe it or not some soy sauce is added.


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## SpikeC (May 12, 2011)

The above dough that I make does nothing but improve when rested in the fridge overnight. If you cook at the high temp recommended they cook quickly enough that I just whack them out and serve as they are ready, like aaron said.


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## Craig (May 13, 2011)

After you shape into balls and brush with oil, does "cover with plastic wrap" mean just put them all in their own bowls and cover to bowl, or are you actually wrapping the dough itself?

I decided to only make 3 pies, so I'll just whack 'em out like you guys suggested. I'm not really sure what temp I'll be baking at, I guess we'll see what my PoS little electric oven can produce. The big differences between this time and my previous experiences are firstly less yeast and thus a slower+longer rise and much more kneading. The extra kneading I think will be a big difference maker, the raw dough after the first rise felt a lot more springy than normal, which is what I would expect from pizza dough.


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## SpikeC (May 13, 2011)

Get the oven as hot as it will go, and use a heavy pizza stone. I use parchment paper under the pie as it makes things easier still allows good bottom browning.


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## WildBoar (May 13, 2011)

SpikeC said:


> Get the oven as hot as it will go, and use a heavy pizza stone. I use parchment paper under the pie as it makes things easier still allows good bottom browning.


x2. The hotter the better, and make sure the stone is thoroughly heated before sliding the first pizza in place. We sprinkle cornmeal on the parchment as well. I don't know if that helps or hurts as far as shooting for a crisp crust though (it reduces contact w/ the stone a little, but the cornmeal itself adds some crunch).


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## Craig (May 13, 2011)

I use parchment paper usually just because if I don't I'm prone to making a mess of the uncooked pie when trying to transfer it to the stone. That's probably because I normally roll my crusts as thin as I can.


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## Craig (May 14, 2011)

It worked out beautifully by the way. Just doing them in order ended up being the obvious choice, as by the time I had the 2nd one all topped the way I wanted it, the first was done. Timed freakishly well that way actually.

My only real issue was I found the results to be a touch runny. Not like soupy or anything, and everyone else didn't really know what I was talking about when I mentioned it, but I felt like there was just a touch too much moisture in the pie. I'm wondering if that's a side effect of using fresh mozz?


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## SpikeC (May 14, 2011)

Yes on the fresh mozz. And thanks for the followup report!


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## wenus2 (May 15, 2011)

Craig said:


> I'm wondering if that's a side effect of using fresh mozz?


 
Indeed, fresh mozz works best over 700F. Either way though, one really should strain it overnight prior to use. wrap it in cheese cloth and suspend over a bowl in the fridge. 

Another very helpful tip is to try and use about half the amount of cheese your brain is telling you that you need. It will still be yummy, don't worry, and your other flavors will be more pronounced as well.

GJ on the pizza btw, beats the hell outta pizza hut, eh?


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## azmark (Jun 14, 2011)

chazmtb said:


> Stefan,
> 
> Don't use granite. They tend to crack easily if heated. If you want, go get a unglazed Terra Cotta planter dish at Home Depot. I think there are 15" rounds that fit most ovens. It is not ideal, but it might work. The kiln shelf are the best options. There has to be something in Oahu that sells pottery supplies.


 
I use unglazed tiles and rounded off the edges to throw in my Weber. Mine cracked after numerous uses and drove to Home Depot again and shelled out another $5. They work great. I've been tempted to try a kiln shelf just for fun since it isn't a bad investment for around $20


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## Jim (Jun 14, 2011)

azmark said:


> I use unglazed tiles and rounded off the edges to throw in my Weber. Mine cracked after numerous uses and drove to Home Depot again and shelled out another $5. They work great. I've been tempted to try a kiln shelf just for fun since it isn't a bad investment for around $20



I found a pottery supply not too far from me and I may go this route.


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## azmark (Jun 14, 2011)

Jim said:


> I found a pottery supply not too far from me and I may go this route.


 
I went to look at them at a local place and they say they sell them for pizzas all the time. I'm sure if you tell them you are using them for pizzas they will know exactly what you are talking about. They can also be cut down to size.

Try a tile too, you'll be surprised how well it works.


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