# Gesshin (400, 2000, 6000) and JNS (800, 6000) stone "shootout"



## Matus (Nov 19, 2013)

It just so happens that for a short period of time I have the possibility to use in parallel 3 Gesshin stones (400, 2k, 6k) and 2 JNS stones (800, 6k). I am the lucky owner of the Gesshin setup, but the JNS stones are meant as a present.

Anyhow - I though that I should get my hands on the JNS stones before passing them on to their rightful owner and share here my impressions and thoughts 

Please note that this is not supposed to be a full review or head-to-head comparison. Mainly because I am not experienced enough for the former and because of the differences in grit and personal preferences for the latter.

These stones are a mix of soakers G400, G2k and JNS800 and splash&go stones (both 6k). But since all of these stones can be perma-soaked, I have soaked them all for about the same period of time prior to use. The shortest soak time for 30 minutes which should be enough for all of these stones.

So - the stones soaking nicely. This is after about 20 minutes. The G400 and JNS800 still bubble slightly. From left to right: G400, G2k, G6k, JNS800 and JNS6k:





*The knives.* 

I have used a mix of carbon, stainless and semi-stainless knives. Some needed just a slight retouch, but some had light blade damage or micro-chipping, that justified the use of coarser stones.
(a) 130 mm no-name low end wwestern style stainless petty/pairing knife which is rather thick behind the edge. Was rather dull, so it got a full workout.
(b) 80 mm SLD Yoshikane petty - had some edge damage after I tried to trim a bunch of flowers without noticing that there are some thinner branches in the bunch what resulted in chipping and even some edge-rolling. I misused the knife and got the results I had to get :-\
(c) 150 mm VG10 (core) SHUN petty with micro-chips along the full length of its edge.
(d) 150 mm Zakuri Sabaki Bocho in Super Blue #1. This is a stronger knife (4.5 mm at the spine close to handle), but the edge is not as robust - had a few micro-chips from the same work as the Yoshi, but these were really minor. My plan is to make the edge a little stronger in the course of the future sharpening sessions as the main task for this knife is supposed to be de-boning.
(e) 210 mm Tanaka R2 (damascus clad) thin laser gyuto - the knife only needed slight touch-up so it was only sharpened with 2000 and 6000 stones.

It needs to be noted that while none of knives sharpened have wide bevels, so the the finish of each of the stones could only be observed close to the edge.

The knives:




I have used the Suehiro stone holder + plastic base from JKI which I found very practical. (I got my hands on the Naniwa bridge sink, but did not like it and returned it - I will make a separate thread about that later)


*The process:*

Gesshin 400:





I have started with knife (a) and (b) on the G400 stone. The (a) knife is not particularly nice to sharpen, but the process was fast. The G400 is to me a stone of medium hardness. It will work up some nice mud, but it did take a while (about half way through working on the first knife). It is a thirsty stone. I was adding a few drops of water (not too much - just to keep the mud) for every time a flipped the knife. Sharpening the (b) on the G400 was a pure joy - It took me just a few minutes and the edge was repaired.The G400 would be the fastest wearing stone of the bunch, but I would definitely NOT consider it wearing fast. After working on 10 blades it starts to show hints of wear, but still not enough to justify flattening. This is a coarse stone, so it is not going to give you a silky feel, but it does give you nice feedback. Also remember - this is a coarse stone and it leave scratches you may not find attractive for a surface finish IMO.


Gesshin 2000

Left: ready to use, Right: After some 20 strokes


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I then moved to G2k with (a) and (b) knives. The G2k is much harder stone. In fact - as you can see in photos - it takes some of the steel and gives the optical impression of clogging. BUT that is just optics. It keeps cutting VERY fast and raising a burr was right down easy. Again, the SLD steel of knife (b) was pleasure to work with. (a) was not much effort either, just not so pleasurable. Concerning the wear - the stone has seen some 20 blades and there are no signs of wear yet. The stone feels nice (not as smooth as the 6000 though). The step from 400 to 2000 felt just right. Even though the scratch pattern of the 400 is rather obvious, the speed of the 2000 removed these with just few movements. The stone needed just a little more water than either of the 6k stones and much less than the coarse ones. The scratch pattern is smooth. One could probably use it as last stone for some knives, I personally would find the edge a bit too toothy, but it could be done.

Gesshin 6000

Left: ready to use, Right: After some 20 strokes:


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Finally - both (a) and (b) knives got a final round on G6k stone. This stone feels really nice. It is not as hard as the G2k, but still on the harder side. It feels great and gives nice feedback. Dishing is not going to be a problem - the stone dishes slow and as it is a finishing stone - the heavy lifting was done by coarser stones.

_(It needs to be noted that during the second part I concentrate more on sharpening and less on photographing and so I missed the "action" photos of the JNS stones. I will fix that with my next session - if I manage one before shipping the JNS stones)_

JNS 800 (the big one)





Now onto knives (c) and (d). The (c) - Shun - needed bit more work because of the micro-chipping. Now I took the JNS800 for the job. This stone is harder than Gesshin 400, but softer than the rest of all these stones. It feels really nice for 800 and leaves surprisingly smooth scratch pattern (mat of course). It proved to have no problem eating away the VG10 and the microchips disappeared faster than I have expected. The (d) knife did not need all that much work (few microchips), but I wanted to get the blade a bit thicker. The carbon steal felt great on the stone. I got the job done in no time. Dishing of this stone is on the slow side - I did not manage to get too much mud out of it. Feels very nice too. And I LOVE the size. I wish all stones would come in this size  The water 'consumption' was very comparable to Gesshin 400. So on the thirsty side - but again - I do not find that to be a problem.

JNS 6000





Finishing both (c) and (d) knives was a pure joy - the stone has very silky feel - actually very similar to Gesshin 6000. But is is harder than the Gesshin. I also expect the stone to last for a very long time in home environment. Thanks to very smooth scratch pattern of the JNS 800, the step all the way up to JNS 600 was no-issue. I did not feel the need for a stone in between. This stone will - similarly to G2k - give the optical impression of clogging, but it keeps cutting very fast.

Tanaka R2 @ G2k, G6k, JNS6k





I kept the Tanaka to be sharpened as last - remember - I am still learning the technique and this is my best knife. I started on G2k and got the burr VERY fast. Needles to say - the knife did not need much work. Then I moved on the 6k stones - on purpose I switched them twice to see whether I am going to see some relevant difference. I was surprised, but there was not much difference. The JNS is harder then Gesshin, but this only became visible during trailing (I could get a very slight 'trace' on the G6k if I would make the movement wrongly). and even then it was rather subtle. Both 6k stones give great feel, need very little water and both produce pretty much a mirror polish. 


After the work:




So - my final thoughts:

G400: fast, produces mud, medium wearing, medium hardness, thirsty

G2k: fast, no mud, little wear, hard, needs little water, good feel, 

G6k, fast, no mud, medium hard, very little water, great feel, nice finish

JNS 800: fast, not muddy, hard-ish, slow wear (tbc), thirsty, smooth scratch pattern

JNS 6000: fast, no mud, hard, slow wear (tbc), needs little water, great feel, nice finish

*************

I really enjoy my Gesshin setup - the 2000 stone is in particular a great one for me, since if knife does not need any repair or is not completely dull it is a great stone to start. I grab the 400 for the rougher work.

On the other hand the JNS 800 and 6000 stones work really well together. The JNS is fast enough to do nearly all you need (for re-profiling one would probably get a really coarse stone - the JNS 300 would be my first guess) with a dull of micro-chipped blade and thanks to its smoothness the 6000 works great as a finisher.

Thanks goes to Jon @ JKI and Maksim @ JNS for their help choosing these setups :thumbsup:

I hope you enjoyed this LOOONG write-up


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## quantumcloud509 (Nov 19, 2013)

Holy crap dude that is the longest write up ever! Glad youre enjoying your stones. That Yoshi petty is badass man.


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 19, 2013)

Thanks for the pics Matus.Thats a great set of stones in that plastic bin.Reciently picked up a couple J-Nats fr. JNS.Gesshins are nice too.My poor Gesshin 2K got thinner sharpening lots of knives.Have fun wt. your sharpening


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## labor of love (Nov 19, 2013)

interesting...i think i need a gesshin 6k. thank you for the write up. its weird to think of any of the gesshin stones as being thirsty. they arent nearly as thirsty as many of the cheaper stones i used before gesshin. but they do seem to be thirstier than chosera i suppose.


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## Frater_Decus (Nov 19, 2013)

I just picked up a JNS 1000 from B/S/T and am exited to compare my observations of its performance with the notes regarding the 800! I expect it will perform similarly.


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## JDA_NC (Nov 19, 2013)

Cool write up. Thanks for doing that!

I also recently picked up the Gesshin 400 and JNS 800 & 6000

Very happy with all three.

The Gesshin 400 is my first (nice) coarse stone - and it has good feedback and cuts extremely quick. I was surprised by the finish it provided - I'm not someone who gets worked up over finishes but it took very little work for me to remove the scratch patterns. I found it to be quicker dishing than you did. After thinning and sharpening 3 knives it was noticeably dished and required flattening, but for being so coarse & quick cutting, that's to be expected IMO.

The JNS 800 is an awesome stone. I love the size as well and it really shines after spending some serious time in the water. I have mine permasoaking and the difference between 30 minutes, 2 hours and a day + soaks are noticeable. Better feedback and more mud. I was looking to replace my 1k - Shapton GS and that-which-shall-not-be-named stones. Very, very happy with it.

The JNS 6000 is a very nice feeling stone as well, although I think the resulting edge is a little too smooth for most stainless knives. I prefer the feel and edge from my Rika 5k more but I don't pretend to be an expert sharpener.

Both Jon & Maxim were great to deal with and as a side note, their free shipping was incredibly fast. I ordered from both on the same day and both packages arrived 4 or 5 days later. Which is impressive considering I live far from both!


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## labor of love (Nov 19, 2013)

anybody have enough experience with JNS 1k and JNS 800 to compare them? i also just got a 1k, but i had no idea the 800 was this popular.


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## Frater_Decus (Nov 19, 2013)

labor of love said:


> anybody have enough experience with JNS 1k and JNS 800 to compare them? i also just got a 1k, but i had no idea the 800 was this popular.



I suppose we could just ask Maxim, heh. The reviews on the JNS 1000 are totally stellar on his site.


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## Matus (Nov 19, 2013)

I am glad that you like the write-up  Took quite some time to put together.



labor of love said:


> anybody have enough experience with JNS 1k and JNS 800 to compare them? i also just got a 1k, but i had no idea the 800 was this popular.



My understanding is that JNS 800 is not that long on the market and if you browse around you will find many more comments about the JNS 1k.

When I was choosing the 2-stone combo from JNS I directly asked Maksim for an advice. He pointed me to 800 & 6000 (instead of say 1000 & synthetic Aoto) as these two are a bit softer then the other ones what for less experienced sharpener would be an advantage.

JNS 1k and 800 comparison would be definitely interesting  Maksim?


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## Justin0505 (Nov 19, 2013)

Great write up! Thanks for taking the time to share this.

Nothing surprising: they all sound like excellent stones, but I think that the direct comparison will be useful for folks considering all of them and looking for something specific. 

I have a slightly different Gesshin setup (just 400 and 4k soaker) and really love them. I'm impressed by how good the Gesshin 400 finish looks on kasumi knives considering how coarse it is and I'm considering adding a JNS 800 after reading your write-up. 

The 4k is a great stopping place for soft stainless and the 400 to 4k combo is often all I do when sharpening other peoples German and American factory blades.


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## LZ962 (Nov 19, 2013)

Thank you so much for testing these stones, I will probably buy a gesshin 2000, it seems really good


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## Matus (Nov 20, 2013)

- Justin - 
I think you will like the finish of JNS 800. Concerning the Gesshin 400 - I had the impression that the scratch pattern is a bit too pronounced for surface finish, but I would say that it is related also to my ability to us it - probably too much force. I have a lot to learn when it comes to sharpening. And I have yet to buy a wide bevel knife (been eyeballing the wide bevel Shigefusa petty over at JNS, but in a few month time I should have my time with Marko, so I need to reserve some funds for that  ).

On top of that - the JNS 800 may fit nicely between Gesshin 400 and 4000 (I have no experience with this stone yet though). I have actually considered the 400 - 4000 combo myself, but just followed Jons advice who thinks that this is a bit too large of a step. I agree though that 4000 may be a better finisher for softer stainless than 6000. But the 6000 works well there too.


- LZ962 -
Gesshin 2000 really is an incredible stone. Period.


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## Justin0505 (Nov 20, 2013)

Yeah, the JKI 4k is great for the edge/ primary bevel, but way too hard, low mud, and aggressive to put a nice finish on the 2ndary bevel or finish a single bevel knife.

The Gesshin 400 finish is coarse (duh) but also incredibly even and provides are great base for that type of finishing work, but then the next suitable stone that I have before getting into jnat final finishers is Dave's blue/green synth aoto, which is also a fantastic stone, but I think would be a lot less work with something like the JNS 800 between it and the 400.


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## dmccurtis (Nov 20, 2013)

Great review. The JNS 800 really is an incredible stone. What it does for wide bevels is just unbelievable. If you enjoy sharpening, it almost makes it too easy to create a consistent finish. If I weren't largely using naturals for finishing, I'd wish for a finer equivalent. In any case, the JNS 800 is far and away my favourite medium stone, and will be a fixture in my lineup from now on. If you have single or wide beveled knives, it's a must.


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## pkjames (Nov 20, 2013)

My experience with JNS800 is, that it is born for single bevel carbon knives 

I a, getting a JNS6K soon, so JNS 800, 6000, Jnat finisher will be my final set up.


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## Ruso (Nov 21, 2013)

I really love Gesshin 2K stone. So far it is my favorite one. If there there is no need for repairs this is the only stone I use for cheap stainless and the start point for more decent knives.


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## GeneH (Sep 17, 2015)

Gonna bump this 2 year old thread to see if Matus has any new updates to comp or supplement his review ... I've linked this thread because it has such good info...


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## mkriggen (Sep 17, 2015)

Well, seance you bumped it, I'll make a comment. I've found that the combination of the Gesshin 1200 and the Gesshin 4000, or the Gesshin Jinzo Aoto and the G4000 (it depends on the steel, the 1200 is a lot softer then the JA) will put a great edge on almost all your chef knives. The only knives that I go higher on now are my suji's and my Kagekiyo 240 gyuto (that edge just screams for refinement)

Be well,
Mikey


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## Matus (Sep 17, 2015)

Well, since you ask GeneH, here it comes 

The Gesshin 2000 remains my all-time favourite - it amazes me every time I use it. I have flattened it once so far. The 400 has lost some 40% of its thickness and the 6000 looks like new (minus the fact that I have mounted it on a ceramic pad as it started to get hairline cracks - result of me not handling it properly). I have JNS 300 that I plan to use in parallel and compare in more detail. The JNS300 is S&G and not thirsty in use and seems also harder. But I can not comment on the speed yet.

In the mean time I lean more towards less fine edge so the 6000 is used only to touch up the edge after the 2000. I plan on getting either the 4000 or the very new synthetic natural from Jon - but that order has a few more months, so I have time to decide. I will order one more 2000 - just to make sure I have one when I will need a replacement 5-10 years from now.

I have also got 2 natural stones in the process (a very soft hakka and a hideriyama - both from Maksim), but it seems that for standard kitchen use these knives give too fine edge (and I cook fish very rarely so while I do have a deba it was not sharpened yet). But I plan to get a single bevel petty from Jon, so maybe I will find the use 

I have not used the JNS stones (those were a present), but actually may manage to get my hands on them in a few days since I will be visiting my friend for who I bought them.

I have to admit that I am tempted to try the new JNS1000 stone, but did not find the right excuse yet 

On top of that Jon has his new S&G stones (320, 1500, 3000) that could make an awesome setup - I am trying to lobby for Europe pass-around. Should that materialise (main obstacles are crazy expensive shipping because of the weight and import duties in EU), than a similar write-up will appear.


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## mark76 (Sep 17, 2015)

I guess it's two years since you wrote this review. But great! I don't read that many reviews of stones. Thanks!



> I will order one more 2000 - just to make sure I have one when I will need a replacement 5-10 years from now.







> On top of that Jon has his new S&G stones (320, 1500, 3000) that could make an awesome setup - I am trying to lobby for Europe pass-around. Should that materialise (main obstacles are crazy expensive shipping because of the weight and import duties in EU), than a similar write-up will appear.



I can also promise a review if this pass-around materializes  . Anyone from Europe? Please drop in!


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## Lizzardborn (Sep 18, 2015)

mark76 said:


> I guess it's two years since you wrote this review. But great! I don't read that many reviews of stones. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dropping in from the eastern parts of EU - DHL are ripping bastards for anything that is heavier than a feather


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## GeneH (Sep 18, 2015)

Matus said:


> Well, since you ask GeneH, here it comes
> 
> The Gesshin 2000 remains my all-time favourite - it amazes me every time I use it. I have flattened it once so far. .... the 6000 looks like new (minus the fact that I have mounted it on a ceramic pad as it started to get hairline cracks - result of me not handling it properly).
> 
> On top of that Jon has his new S&G stones (320, 1500, 3000) that could make an awesome setup - I am trying to lobby for Europe pass-around. Should that materialise (main obstacles are crazy expensive shipping because of the weight and import duties in EU), than a similar write-up will appear.




That's quite an endorsement for the Gesshin 2000. What did you do to the 6000 (is that Gesshin 6000?) causing the hairline cracks? I'll add that to my list of "don't do this" to stones.

I'm curious to see how Jon's new S&G plays out before I purchase. Jon did have some pretty good things to say about the 3000 in his video review. The 320-1500-3000 might be a pretty good set for me to get started.

Thanks Matus for the update!


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## Matus (Sep 18, 2015)

Mark - a passaround in Europe would be great, but I do not want to push on Jon too much (I did a bit already  ). He knows that people are interested - it is just quite some work (and risk probably too - the stuff is heavy) for him, so let's just let him to see whether it makes sense or not. Even if it will happen, it would be by about end of the year or later.

GeneH - Yes - the Gesshin 2000 is truly an excellent stone + it is hard (I seem to prefer hard stones for the sharpening & I do not do wide bevels yet, so the finish does not matter that much to me). The Gesshin 6000 is meant for 2 modus operandi. You either use it as splash & go, or you store it in water permanently. This stone does not like to be soaked before every sharpening session and the dried - and that is what I did (I soaked it together with the 400 and 2000). It is actually described in detail on JKI webpage - I just did not read properly. Still - the cracks were very fine, the stone did not break or something. I glued it cracks-down, so that is no issue. On top of that - I can not imagine to spend the stone within 20 years (you have basically zero wear on a stone this fine). Mine did not have to be flattened yet.


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## _PixelNinja (Sep 18, 2015)

Just a note to say that I am looking forward to your feedback on the JNS 300, Matus.


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## JBroida (Sep 18, 2015)

i am really thinking about how i can do this kind of passaround... maybe if we have a member visiting the US, we can get someone to bring them back to Europe with them or something like that. Who knows... still thinking it through. Gotta get the US one going at some point too.


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## Matus (Sep 19, 2015)

Jon, it seems like the seed was planted  I am already amazed that you are planning the US passaround with all those stones. It will take some time I guess as one can not possibly test 20+ stones in a week (most of us do not simply have enough knives for that)


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## JBroida (Sep 19, 2015)

it really comes down to my confidence in our products.... i know how good they are, so this way,we can make it easier for everyone else to see how badass they really are


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## cave_dweller (Sep 19, 2015)

JBroida said:


> it really comes down to my confidence in our products.... i know how good they are, so this way,we can make it easier for everyone else to see how badass they really are



That's a great attitude. I love the fact that you have so much confidence in your products. :doublethumbsup:


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