# Watanabe - where to buy?



## @ftermath (May 24, 2021)

Tried a few Toyamas and would like to try a Wat 240 for comparison. Is there any downside to ordering from the MTC store over direct or anywhere else?


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## TM001 (May 24, 2021)

In the US the only places I have seen them listed is MTC and Arizona Custom Knives (store is actually in FL).


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## @ftermath (May 24, 2021)

Just wanted to double check. I never see anyone actually mention MTC as the vendor they purchased from.


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## Carlo (May 24, 2021)

@ftermath said:


> Just wanted to double check. I never see anyone actually mention MTC as the vendor they purchased from.



I have purchased (a Sukenari) from the NYC store. They were courteous but I didn’t have the impression that it was staffed by knife aficionados.

Used to go in all the time to ogle knives. It is located about a dozen blocks uptown of where I worked for years.


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## @ftermath (May 24, 2021)

I’m half tempted to take the train up for a day just for this and to spend a day in the city. Any recommendations for food nearby?


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## Carlo (May 24, 2021)

Lol, nope, not in NYC 

Around midtown it’s geared towards lunch for office workers. I assume those places are struggling now.

There’s a lot of Japanese places near MTC but I don’t know what to recommend.

Halal Guys cart on 53rd & 6th for the best street meat in Manhattan 

Maialino isn’t too far away, at Gramercy Park. That’s been a favorite of myself and my wife.

Honestly, all the best food, imho, is in Queens... Coco (Malaysian) in Elmhurst... Little Pepper (Chinese) in Flushing... Asian Bowl (Burmese) in Forest Hills ...omg I’m going to cry, I miss NYC.

PS: you should check out Kalustyans if you’ve never been. Every spice you can think of.


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## RockyBasel (May 25, 2021)

Carlo said:


> Lol, nope, not in NYC
> 
> Around midtown it’s geared towards lunch for office workers. I assume those places are struggling now.
> 
> ...


Can’t go wrong with maialino and on 22 and Park, there is neighborhood gem called Novita / another Italian. And a few blocks away, you have Eately. The fresh pasta station there never disappoints


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## RockyBasel (May 25, 2021)

@ftermath said:


> Just wanted to double check. I never see anyone actually mention MTC as the vendor they purchased from.


MTC has Watanabe in stock - even a 270mm


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## DitmasPork (May 25, 2021)

@ftermath said:


> Just wanted to double check. I never see anyone actually mention MTC as the vendor they purchased from.


I love MTC, go there often, bought knives and stones from them.


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## aaamax (May 25, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> MTC has Watanabe in stock - even a 270mm



I just checked the site and damn if Wats aren't still one of the more reasonably priced, good knives out there. Considering what has happened to a lot of the prices for other makers...
I bought a 270 from Sin in around '02 and I think that maybe it was about $100 less. CAn't say that about Shig or TAkeda, etc.


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## Cliff (May 26, 2021)

I have had nothing but good experiences at MTC


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## DitmasPork (May 26, 2021)

I was in MTC a couple of weeks ago and was drooling over their Wats.


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## @ftermath (May 26, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> I was in MTC a couple of weeks ago and was drooling over their Wats.
> 
> View attachment 128765


That does it. This will have to be an in person purchase.


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## Cliff (May 26, 2021)

I have a relatively recent, slimmer iron-clad Wat 240 and love it


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## aaamax (May 28, 2021)

@ftermath said:


> That does it. This will have to be an in person purchase.




In for the4 win!
Nothing like being able to feel a knife before you buy it. 

The 270 is imo the perfect size for balance and getting the job done.
Granted, if you have a really small station, then maybe, _maybe_, go less. But for me there is no going back and anything shorter slows me down significantly.
Cheers.


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## Cliff (May 28, 2021)

aaamax said:


> In for the4 win!
> Nothing like being able to feel a knife before you buy it.
> 
> The 270 is imo the perfect size for balance and getting the job done.
> ...



My thoughts, too, even as a home cook -- as soon as I'm cooking for more than 3-4 people, which happens a fair amount. I picked up the Toyama version on sale recently and feel like it's really dialed in for my tastes in terms the balance it strikes between heft and finesse. Those stainless 240's look a little light. Has anyone tried one? My iron-clad Wat 240 is on the slim side, but still about 230g. The specs I'm seeing on the stainless ones are closer to 200g.


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## daveb (May 28, 2021)

aaamax said:


> The 270 is imo the perfect size for balance and getting the job done.
> Granted, if you have a really small station, then maybe, _maybe_, go less.



With a 270 Wat you can make your station as large as you want it  

I've had both the stainless clad and the iron clad Wats. (Still have iron clad). The iron is significantly more substantial and is the unique Wat I was looking for.. The stainless clad is certainly nice but to me it's just another nice knife. I've got weights around somewhere....


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## Cliff (May 28, 2021)

With the iron clad, it depends when you got it. My more recent vintage is quite a bit lighter than they used to be.


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## timebard (May 28, 2021)

Cliff said:


> My thoughts, too, even as a home cook -- as soon as I'm cooking for more than 3-4 people, which happens a fair amount. I picked up the Toyama version on sale recently and feel like it's really dialed in for my tastes in terms the balance it strikes between heft and finesse. Those stainless 240's look a little light. Has anyone tried one? My iron-clad Wat 240 is on the slim side, but still about 230g. The specs I'm seeing on the stainless ones are closer to 200g.



My stainless clad Toyama 240 is 205g which I think is pretty typical. Has some heft in hand and performs very well IMO but I can see how it might not be love at first cut for someone after the "definitive workhorse" experience that the older Watoyamas are associated with.


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## Barmoley (May 28, 2021)

Both versions are very nice knives, but I agree with @daveb the older heavier ones are the ones that made these famous. The newer, lighter ones are still very good, just not as unique and the stainless clad versions are definitely more practical for most users.


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## Nemo (May 29, 2021)

Is it no longer possible to get these knives directly from Mr Watanabe?


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## toddnmd (May 29, 2021)

Nemo said:


> Is it no longer possible to get these knives directly from Mr Watanabe?


Still possible to buy direct. The web store has announced being closed several times recently from 


2-3 months each time.


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## joneal (May 29, 2021)

Website to buy direct is open right now - and can always email him, very quick to respond!


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## tally-ho (May 29, 2021)

Nemo said:


> Is it no longer possible to get these knives directly from Mr Watanabe?


I ordered a 240 gyuto stainless clad yesterday after several emails exchange, I probably caught Shinichi Watanabe when he was behind the computer because he responded immediately, it was around 06:30AM in France and 01:30PM in Niigata, Japan.
He is shipping with DHL only but I wanted another carrier that he finally accepted despite the extra hassle for him. Very responsive and helpful/arranging.


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## daveb (May 29, 2021)

joneal said:


> Website to buy direct is open right now - and can always email him, very quick to respond!



If you're joining us - welcome. Pls do so with a new member intro. Thanks.


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## joneal (May 29, 2021)

daveb said:


> If you're joining us - welcome. Pls do so with a new member intro. Thanks.


Hey Dave - new member intro was done about a month ago now. Thanks!


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## jacko9 (May 29, 2021)

I have purchased directly from Shinichi several times always with great results. I did find a rare bargain for a Wat 210mm Gyuto at Epicurean Edge last year but I noticed that they are not in stock very often.

I agree with others that Shinichi does respond to emails very quickly and he is very easy to do business with. If you don't see something on his web site, ask him is its available to be made.


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## daveb (May 29, 2021)

joneal said:


> Hey Dave - new member intro was done about a month ago now. Thanks!



My mistake. Forum software kicks 1st post and/or up to first 5 posts if containing a link to a moderation queue.


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## Receiver52 (May 29, 2021)

If you like Sake and Japanese food, Sakagura is a couple of blocks from MTC. In the basement of an old office building and a really cool place. They have several hundred varieties of Sake and the place is highly unpretentious. It’s at 211 E 43rd street. Haven’t been for a few years. Hopefully it survived COVID.


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## aaamax (May 30, 2021)

daveb said:


> With a 270 Wat you can make your station as large as you want it
> 
> I've had both the stainless clad and the iron clad Wats. (Still have iron clad). The iron is significantly more substantial and is the unique Wat I was looking for.. The stainless clad is certainly nice but to me it's just another nice knife. I've got weights around somewhere....



You're right Dave. The beast could certainly double as a machete...

Didn't know that the newer ones are forged lighter nowadays. The weight of the older ones certainly aid in self-driving, but I wonder if the light ones feel like they have more finesse? 
A 270 Takeda is a whole lot lighter than my Wat and is a completely different animal because of it. Strike that. A completely different animal because it is SOO much taller. Lol. Takeda certainly had his own path way back when and couldn't have been easy to forge and keep true. 
Cheers


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## RockyBasel (May 30, 2021)

@ftermath said:


> Tried a few Toyamas and would like to try a Wat 240 for comparison. Is there any downside to ordering from the MTC store over direct or anywhere else?


 One thing I don’t know whether the MTC or AZ knives are the Watanabe pro series or watanabe standard 

I ordered a watanabe pro 210 nakiri and shinichi was great to work with

one thing I have learned however, that watanabe, they do not make their own knives. They farm it out to other knife makers, Toyama being one of them. This is something maksim clarified for me recently. But other knife makers make the knives too For shinichi

if you to Japan, you are unlikely to find watanabe knives being sold anywhere - according to maksim.
that being said, I love my nakiri and other knives I have ordered from Shinichi

but when I want a Toyama…I go to JNS

off-topic question - a Toyama Damascus sold recently on WTS - seller said he got the knife from a vendor, but not JNS - does anyone know of vendors besides JNS that sell Toyama noborikoi?


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## Hz_zzzzzz (May 30, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> off-topic question - a Toyama Damascus sold recently on WTS - seller said he got the knife from a vendor, but not JNS - does anyone know of vendors besides JNS that sell Toyama noborikoi?


I believe it’s this Japanese local vendor. I placed an order for the 240 dammy through Zenmarket (forwarding service). Paid 53,523 yen to zenmarket before shipping fee to US. Let’s see how it goes.
鋭い切れ味！美しい波紋！三条手打ち鍛造鍛冶職人　外山作　臥龍　積層 青紙二号　 和牛刀　水牛桂鎬柄


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## G8trwood (Jun 11, 2021)

Watanabe is back open. Ordered a Pro 180 Nakiri and it arrived in Fl in 4 days! Super responsive by email, had a knife available and shipped immediately.


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## damiano (Jun 11, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> one thing I have learned however, that watanabe, they do not make their own knives


With all due respect, but how can we be sure this is accurate info? I’ve never heard this before and fwiw Watanabe always boasts how they are a family with multiple generations of knife makers. If the source is Maksim, how accurate can we believe it to be given that he has an incentive to sell Toyamas?


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 15, 2021)

Wahnamhong said:


> With all due respect, but how can we be sure this is accurate info? I’ve never heard this before and fwiw Watanabe always boasts how they are a family with multiple generations of knife makers. If the source is Maksim, how accurate can we believe it to be given that he has an incentive to sell Toyamas?


Dont know about the other Wat knives, but the stainless clad blue 2 gyuto is likely made by Toyama. 
1. The 2 knives look and feel similar. 
2. The hand written characters that says “blue 2 gyuto” on the boxes of 2 knives are similar and written by the same person I believe.
3. Wat and Toyama stopped making iron clad blue 2 around the same time. I know Wat resumed selling it recently but it’s now a different profile and finish.
4. Maksim insists Toyama made those knives and I don’t believe he’s gonna lie about it just to sell the Toyama.


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## Ochazuke (Jun 15, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Dont know about the other Wat knives, but the stainless clad blue 2 gyuto is likely made by Toyama.
> 1. The 2 knives look and feel similar.
> 2. The hand written characters that says “blue 2 gyuto” on the boxes of 2 knives are similar and written by the same person I believe.
> 3. Wat and Toyama stopped making iron clad blue 2 around the same time. I know Wat resumed selling it recently but it’s now a different profile and finish.
> 4. Maksim insists Toyama made those knives and I don’t believe he’s gonna lie about it just to sell the Toyama.


This is definitely a thread that's been discussed before. But here's my thoughts:
1.) If you like knives sold under the Watanabe brand, then buy them. If you don't then don't.
2.) How Watanabe makes or sources their knives is their business.
3.) Since this forum is a source of information - we should represent factual information as such and hearsay as such. If a competing vendor wants to put their reputation on the line and make claims about another vendor - that's on them. But maybe hearing something about a vendor from another vendor (hearsay) shouldn't be treated as fact. @RockyBasel 
4.) While personally I am not a huge fan of speculation that can affect someone's business, I respect others' right to do so. But I really think it should be made clear that it's speculation or rumor. 
5.) If y'all really care about this so much, maybe one or two of you should throw your claims and speculations directly at Watanabe (again). See what the reply is directly from the source.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 15, 2021)

Just to add some proofs regarding the box.

This a picture of the box of a Toyama SS 210 from BST SOLD - Kagekiyo 240, Toyama 210






This is a picture of the box of my Watanabe SS 240


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## Ochazuke (Jun 15, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Just to add some proofs regarding the box.
> 
> This a picture of the box of a Toyama SS 210 from BST SOLD - Kagekiyo 240, Toyama 210
> View attachment 131406
> ...


And I never once said anybody was wrong either.

All I'm saying is that if your kid and your neighbors kid "just happened" to look the exact same, I wouldn't go around telling the whole world who did what with whoever's wife either.  

Just respecting the right to privacy.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 15, 2021)

Ochazuke said:


> And I never once said anybody was wrong either.
> 
> All I'm saying is that if your kid and your neighbors kid "just happened" to look the exact same, I wouldn't go around telling the whole world who did what with whoever's wife either.
> 
> Just respecting the right to privacy.


Yea I really love my Wat SS and I don't care who made it either. I chose Wat SS over Toyama at the time knowing it was probably made by Toyama but I liked Wat kanji a little more.


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## damiano (Jun 15, 2021)

This is a pic of my Wat. If it’s indeed made by Toyama that would be awesome. In the end I want a good knife and both are highly respected makers. This is also common knowledge so far.

It would be different of course if Wat would outsource to lesser quality makers, but so far I haven’t heard any negative feedback on Wat quality.


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## daveb (Jun 15, 2021)

Even if the box guy is the same for both, it doesn't mean the knife guy is. I treat the speculation that the maker is the same as speculation. Had both and prefer Wats. So I buy Wats


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## Matus (Jun 15, 2021)

As funny as it is, this Watanabe - Toyama duality comes up every couple of months. At the end of the day it is quite simple. Watananbe is a vendor that sources his knives from different places, including Toyama (long standing business between the two families). On older version of Watanabe webpage there were even photos of Toyoama in his workshop. It was the obvious similarity between these two knives that led to numerous question and finally a confirmation from Maksim (a long time ago) - something that would not have happened if that information was supposed to stay 'secret'. As we all know this is a perfectly common practice in the world of Japanese knives, just in this case we happen to know. It does not seem to cause any harm to the maker what is the main point to me. The only thing that matters at the end of the day is that Watanabe sells good knives (and stones - have a few myself) and is one of the few Japanese vendors capable to communicate (and doing business with) western buyers - what is a great thing. 

On the variation of weight - there is quite some among the Toyama knives. In general carbon clads are about 10% heavier, but when I was buying my stainless clad Toyama nakiri I could pick from 2 knives - one was 175g (the one I got - because I am weak and feeble) and the other 230g (more than most carbon clad ones), so the variation can overshadow the systematic difference at times.


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## Barmoley (Jun 15, 2021)

Ochazuke said:


> This is definitely a thread that's been discussed before. But here's my thoughts:
> 1.) If you like knives sold under the Watanabe brand, then buy them. If you don't then don't.
> 2.) How Watanabe makes or sources their knives is their business.
> 3.) Since this forum is a source of information - we should represent factual information as such and hearsay as such. If a competing vendor wants to put their reputation on the line and make claims about another vendor - that's on them. But maybe hearing something about a vendor from another vendor (hearsay) shouldn't be treated as fact. @RockyBasel
> ...



Let me preface that everything I will write is not factual, these are my opinions, observations and conclusions I've made from my personal experience and thinking about the subject. I absolutely agree that what a vendor does is their business. I disagree that we can't or shouldn't discuss it. These forums are about discussing and learning about knives and everything around these knives. The idea that we shouldn't discuss who made the knives, what steel was used, etc is just bizarre to me. The boxes being the same doesn't really prove the knives are the same since it is pretty common to outsource things like that to a specialist, but I've tried multiple versions from both vendors over the years and in my opinion the knives from the same time period are identical, the only way I would be able to tell which is which is the different kanji. There are of course variations like with all handmade products, but in general they are basically same.

I also don't understand the claims that Watanabe is somehow hurt by this or that Maksim has vested interest in saying that Watanabe sells Toyama. How does it benefit Maksim to claim that very popular, well regarded knives that were believed to only be available from him can in fact be bought somewhere else and sometimes cheaper. There were also many times when Maksim was sold out, but you could still buy these from Watanabe. How does this benefit Maksim and hurt Watanabe?

In any case Toyama vs Watanabe has been discussed to death. I just don't understand when people are shamed for discussing knives on a discussion forum about knives. Lack of information is what causes rumors and even though I understand why makers and vendors hide sources or steels or whatever consumers and enthusiasts should absolutely discuss these things.


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## tally-ho (Jun 15, 2021)

Communication in english with Shinichi Watanabe was easy and immediate.
He finally sent a gyuto pro 240mm to me via Japan Post that I received 7 days after payment.
For the ease of the process, ordering from Watanabe was worth it (I never tried to order from Toyama yet).


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 15, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> The boxes being the same doesn't really prove the knives are the same since it is pretty common to outsource things like that to a specialist,


I have a different opinion. Of course they could buy boxes from the same vendor, but my guess is the label is hand-written in house. If the label is outsourced to a specialist, the specialist would most likely print the label instead of hand-writing it because a specialist needs to deal with volume to make a living.


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## Barmoley (Jun 15, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I have a different opinion. Of course they could buy boxes from the same vendor, but my guess is the label is hand-written in house. If the label is outsourced to a specialist, the specialist would most likely print the label instead of hand-writing it because a specialist needs to deal with volume to make a living.


I agree with you, I think they are same and handwritten at the source, but since we can't know for sure this in itself is not proof. In addition to all the other information we have this is a pretty strong point though.


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## Matus (Jun 15, 2021)

For what it's worth, I would not put too much weight into boxes when it comes to knife identification ...


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 15, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> I agree with you, I think they are same and handwritten at the source, but since we can't know for sure this in itself is not proof. In addition to all the other information we have this is a pretty strong point though.


Yea totally make sense. It's nothing concrete just one reason for the speculation.


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## hmh (Jun 15, 2021)

What about the stickers (they are the same too)?


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## jacko9 (Jun 15, 2021)

I have a Wat 210mm Gyuto B#2 stainless clad and a Toyama 240mm Gyuto B#2 stainless clad and they are both excellent blades.


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## parbaked (Jun 15, 2021)

I'll admit that I not comfortable with the speculation that Watanabe doesn't make *any* of their knives because Watanabe's website clearly states that he and his family make their knives. There is even a section with photos of them making knives in their workshop.

From Watanabe website:
_*"Here you will find original hand forged blades of all kinds, painstakingly crafted by the Watanabe family."

"I make hand forged knives to your custom specifications."*_

Also Shin's comments in the "Specials" sections consistently state that he makes those knives, including his own unique Kintaro-ame.

I wouldn't contradict his word without stronger evidence than presented here e.g. Maksim's comments from some time ago or a picture of Toyama on Watanabe's old website. Things may have changed.

Maybe we change the narrative to "Watanabe doesn't necessarily make all the knives they sell"?

As far as current production is concerned, Watanabe stainless clad Blue seem to sell for 10%-15% less than the equivalent Toyama, so not sure it makes sense to presume Toyama makes today's Watanabe's....

I just don't think it helps this community when hearsay is parroted as fact...


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## hmh (Jun 15, 2021)

This is definitely only assumptions. But pretty much all the evidence from prior threads and so on points to the fact that Toyama makes the knives from the pro line. Toyama sells the identical same knives with the same stickers through other places than JNS (i.e. zahocho). Watanabe stating that he makes knives might be true, but he most likely does not make the pro line. The knives sold in the special section might be his (they often look a bit odd and not on par with Toyama's f&f level and his regular profiles). My personal impression reinforced by email exchanges with him is that Watanabe is intentionally leaving a lot of information open for interpretation as to which knives he's actually forging.


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## daveb (Jun 15, 2021)

hmh said:


> points to the likelihood / possibility, supports the presumption, gives cause to speculate, that Toyama makes the knives from the pro line.



FTFY. Calling it a fact does not make it one.


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## Jason183 (Jun 16, 2021)

Last year I heard a lot about “Watoyama”, I don’t know what it means, now I kinda understand, I wouldn’t be surprised if these different brands made by same maker. There’s lot of examples out there. 
Before I thought Konosuke YS/SKD/K&S Amekiri/Kashima Sanjo/Gengetsu etc were different maker, but as I explored further, founded out they are basically same makers selling by different company/Vendors. Personally it’s no big deal to me as long as they’re great knives.


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## Hamesjo (Jun 16, 2021)

On another note, has anyone else been getting an access denied message when trying to email Shin?


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 16, 2021)

Jason183 said:


> Last year I heard a lot about “Watoyama”, I don’t know what it means, now I kinda understand, I wouldn’t be surprised if these different brands made by same maker. There’s lot of examples out there.
> Before I thought Konosuke YS/SKD/K&S Amekiri/Kashima Sanjo/Gengetsu etc were different maker, but as I explored further, founded out they are basically same makers selling by different company/Vendors. Personally it’s no big deal to me as long as they’re great knives.


Wait…Gengetsu is Yoshikane?


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## timebard (Jun 16, 2021)

I don't get why people get so invested and worked up over this. Both Toyama and Wat Pro gyutos are near-universally acclaimed, have very similar characteristics within the same line, and while not a cheap knife also are meant to be used, not collected based on a rare provenance. Some people prefer one over the other but I don't see much pattern to it, which leads me to suspect that random variation in the individual knives someone happens to try has more to do with that preference than anything else.

If they are made by separate craftsmen, it's an interesting case of convergent evolution/extremely faithful imitation. If they're all from Toyama, then... they're all from Toyama, and it doesn't make either label's offerings any worse. 

To bring it back around to more substantial questions... How do the Wat KU gyutos compare performance wise to new and old Wat Pro/Toyama? Are they still iron clad? Has anyone been able to get one in 225mm?


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## Jason183 (Jun 16, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Wait…Gengetsu is Yoshikane?


I’m not sure, just guessing from the profile, specs and steel used(White 2 and Semi stainless), I might be wrong though.


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## lemeneid (Jun 16, 2021)

Matus said:


> For what it's worth, I would not put too much weight into boxes when it comes to knife identification ...


Can definitely vouch for this. Ordered a Masamoto KS few years back. Label on the box said HS3124 instead of KS3124.

If only the knife that I received was the HS instead  and probably closest I’ve gotten to that knife.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 16, 2021)

Jason183 said:


> I’m not sure, just guessing from the profile, specs and steel used(White 2 and Semi stainless), I might be wrong though.


Make sense. I’ve always wanted to try a Gengetsu to see what makes it special, but if it’s similar to Yoshi I know I’ll most likely like it since I like Yoshi a lot.


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## 4wa1l (Jun 16, 2021)

Hamesjo said:


> On another note, has anyone else been getting an access denied message when trying to email Shin?



On Friday I received an email and responded fine. It was about shipping details on a custom ordered late last year, so not a new order.

His website does state that it's closed until the end of August but new knives keep popping up on the specials and cleaver pages so I'm not too sure what to think.


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## friz (Jun 16, 2021)

I wanted to buy a knife from Watanabe website, when adding to cart it will stop you there. So I emailed Shinichi about the knife I was interested and he emailed me back in the next few hours with details on how to purchase.
So, yes the website is closed for purchases, but if you email Shinichi he can assist you.

P.S: Do not buy the Honyaki Gyuto #25!


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## Hamesjo (Jun 16, 2021)

That's exactly the knife I was interested in but I received an access denied message when I reached out to Shinichi...within a few hours it was labelled as sold on the website


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## friz (Jun 16, 2021)

I bought that knife, I returned it the day after.


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## Matus (Jun 16, 2021)

parbaked said:


> I'll admit that I not comfortable with the speculation that Watanabe doesn't make *any* of their knives because Watanabe's website clearly states that he and his family make their knives. There is even a section with photos of them making knives in their workshop.
> 
> From Watanabe website:
> _*"Here you will find original hand forged blades of all kinds, painstakingly crafted by the Watanabe family."
> ...



They might well be making some knives in their family, I might be mistaken but I recall reading that there is a blade smith in the family (I think I found that somewhere on the Japanese version of his webpage). Also, part of the knives in the 'special' selection look quite experimental or one-offs. Plus Watanabe ordered larger amount of 125SC steel directly from Germany about 2 years ago (from Achim Wirtz who is also source of the information) and he does usually have a few kitchen knives from this steel in his special section. With that said - it is common for vendors to source steel for the craftsmen they order from.


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## Matus (Jun 16, 2021)

friz said:


> I bought that knife, I returned it the day after.


What was wrong with it?


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## friz (Jun 16, 2021)

Matus said:


> What was wrong with it?


extra thick, very poor! grinding, evident! scratches from sharpening.
Nowhere near the Honyaki I handled 4 years ago, and the petty honyaki I use at home.


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## Matus (Jun 16, 2021)

Did you happen to take some more photos?


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## lemeneid (Jun 16, 2021)

friz said:


> extra thick, very poor! grinding, evident! scratches from sharpening.
> Nowhere near the Honyaki I handled 4 years ago, and the petty honyaki I use at home.


So Watanabe is now churning out garbage like TF?


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## Jovidah (Jun 16, 2021)

SW SW SW SW!


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## BillHanna (Jun 16, 2021)




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## friz (Jun 16, 2021)

Matus said:


> Did you happen to take some more photos?


I do not feel comfortable sharing the pictures. Please just trust me, I don't think you would like the knife.




lemeneid said:


> So Watanabe is now churning out garbage like TF?


I do not have experience with TF, I don't know, and the 2 Honyaki Watanabe I mentioned above weren't purchase by me directly.

With that said, Shinichi response to my email, where I share my disappointment, was a little shock.
He didn't spend anytime explaining the reasons why the knife was made/finished that way, he straight said they have the return policy and I will have to pay the round shipping.

Also to me is worth mentioning: 1)the Kanji on the blade was a simple 'W'.2)I couldn't see any Hamon under any light.
I care about these things, some people don't.


----------



## Ochazuke (Jun 16, 2021)

Here's some more food for thought:
- I bought an usuba from Watanabe about 6 years ago. It was and still is a fantastic single bevel. It came perfectly finished with one of the best hamaguri sharpenings I've ever seen.

- I bought a new yanagi from him this year. (Side story: one of my yanagi got absolutely wrecked when somebody brand new to the kitchen just picked it up and used it to cleave apart chicken bones). We've talked and he knows I've been working in the business for a while. I don't know if this is because he knows that, but the new yanagi I just bought from him came unfinished. 

There are still plenty of shops where you can buy an unfinished knife because they trust that pros have their own preferences for finish and type of edge. I bring this up to see if others have bought from the single bevel pro line recently (not special or standard) and had a similar experience or if he did that just because he trusts that I have my own preferences.

I also bring it up because it points out that even if somebody else is doing many of the knifemaking steps in a particular line, it doesn't necessarily mean that Watanabe is always receiving finished product just to resell. For instance (pure conjecture) if his single bevel pro line is outsourced to another reputable maker and he receives all or most of them in the same shape that I received mine, then it stands to reason that Watanabe is (or has) a very capable sharpener. 

Again, none of this is fact - just strong evidence that Watanabe might not be simply reselling finished product from another maker. Either that or the other maker has less than stellar quality control (which I doubt).


----------



## Barmoley (Jun 16, 2021)

I don't think anyone is claiming that Watanabe is purely a reseller, he might be, but that's not what is being said. Some of us are saying that his Pro line gyutos and suji are so close to Toyama that if it is not made by Toyama someone is making an excellent copy of it, profile, grind, steel, even heat treat are same or so similar that they can be treated as same. Individual variations exist and seem to be one of the reasons why some people doubt, but individual variations also exist within Toyama line itself. Over many knives these 2 lines are very, very similar so it really doesn't matter if they are made by one person or multiple people building them to the same "spec". This is why some of us call them Watayoma, since it really doesn't matter which you get, just go by kanji, price, availability. In use there is no difference on average.

I have no experience with his single bevel. Also comparing knives today to same line 6 years ago doesn't mean anything since they change over time. For all we know they are now sourced from different maker or the maker just changed the line, Toyama did during this time. There is also a huge difference between claiming that the knife was fully made by a craftsman and claiming that it was sharpened by one.

In any case both are excellent regardless of who makes them and unless Watanabe writes on his website that he gets some of his knives from Toyama some people won't believe it. This is the beauty of the forums, we share information and everyone decides what they want to do with it.


----------



## ian (Jun 16, 2021)

Ochazuke said:


> Here's some more food for thought:
> - I bought an usuba from Watanabe about 6 years ago. It was and still is a fantastic single bevel. It came perfectly finished with one of the best hamaguri sharpenings I've ever seen.
> 
> - I bought a new yanagi from him this year. (Side story: one of my yanagi got absolutely wrecked when somebody brand new to the kitchen just picked it up and used it to cleave apart chicken bones). We've talked and he knows I've been working in the business for a while. I don't know if this is because he knows that, but the new yanagi I just bought from him came unfinished.
> ...



Yea, he offered to tailor a couple knives for me a while ago, with a wait time that was too little to believe he was going to send them out. I’m sure they do a lot of work in house

I’m of the “it’s fine to discuss provenance” camp, although I personally haven’t seen enough evidence to state anything as fact rather than informed speculation. (Others like Matus perhaps have? Idk.) I guess it’d be nice if people who don’t know for sure would always qualify their statements tho.

I feel like on balance, both Watanabe and Toyama probably benefit much more from this forum (with all its faults) than they’re hurt by it.


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## Carlo (Jun 16, 2021)

Well

I’ve been on tenterhooks for days waiting for this thread to turn beige.


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## preizzo (Jun 16, 2021)

Purchased this Watanabe from a member here early this year.
Was from the special section 
270 gyuto extra heavy and tall and bla bla bla 
While thinning the knife I start to see a delamination ,so I decided to send it to a Smith friend who helped me thinning the knife more and then the rest you can see on the photos.

Watanabe is selling garbage lately, that is my humble opinion


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## Matus (Jun 16, 2021)

Never saw one quite that bad ... did you contact Sin about it?


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## McMan (Jun 16, 2021)

That's just “deep Damascus”.


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## preizzo (Jun 16, 2021)

Matus said:


> Never saw one quite that bad ... did you contact Sin about it?


Do you have a email I can use ?


----------



## M1k3 (Jun 16, 2021)

preizzo said:


> Purchased this Watanabe from a member here early this year.
> Was from the special section
> 270 gyuto extra heavy and tall and bla bla bla
> While thinning the knife I start to see a delamination ,so I decided to send it to a Smith friend who helped me thinning the knife more and then the rest you can see on the photos.
> ...


----------



## lemeneid (Jun 16, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 131578


----------



## Matus (Jun 17, 2021)

preizzo said:


> Do you have a email I can use ?



Last time (quite a while ago) he used to use [email protected] but unfortunately there have been recent reports that this one does not work.

EDIT: Try this one, it can be found on his jewelry online shop (www.jblade.jp/) : [email protected]


----------



## friz (Jun 17, 2021)

preizzo said:


> Do you have a email I can use ?


[email protected]


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## preizzo (Jun 17, 2021)

friz said:


> [email protected]


Grazie nicola


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## TSF415 (Jun 17, 2021)

Matus said:


> Last time (quite a while ago) he used to use [email protected] but unfortunately there have been recent reports that this one does not work.
> 
> EDIT: Try this one, it can be found on his jewelry online shop (www.jblade.jp/) : [email protected]



both of these are in his email signature


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## preizzo (Jun 17, 2021)

Matus said:


> Last time (quite a while ago) he used to use [email protected] but unfortunately there have been recent reports that this one does not work.
> 
> EDIT: Try this one, it can be found on his jewelry online shop (www.jblade.jp/) : [email protected]


Tanks mstus


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## Matus (Jun 17, 2021)

Please do let us know how this went


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## preizzo (Jun 17, 2021)

Apparently Shinichi just doesn't give a ****


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## riba (Jun 17, 2021)

preizzo said:


> Apparently Shinichi just doesn't give a ****


That's crappy.

From his own page 'Our knives are handmade. It has some differences. The thick, height, length, weight, tip, scratches, delamination parts, each blades have the differences. Our blades have uneven thick, uneven bevel, uneven surface, uneven grind, bent, twisted and not straight. However these things are not inferior at our inspecting standard. If you want 100% perfect products, you must not buy Watanabe blades.'
That sounds inspiring....

Guess I just got lucky. Very disappointing


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## preizzo (Jun 17, 2021)

Advice to people who want to buy from him .
Be sure there are no delamination even small one and in that case just return the knife immediately


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## lemeneid (Jun 17, 2021)

Anyway I’m my opinion, the “special knives” are mostly garbage. Weird profiles, steels, handles, grinds, etc and all exorbitantly priced. Don’t buy from the specials as it just seems those are knives Watanabe made to give the middle finger to collectors. Only nice knife I saw there was that 250mm honyaki in 125sc.


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## Matus (Jun 17, 2021)

Sorry to hear that Preizzo. I would have hoped that he would be a little more forthcoming. It is a second hand knife, but still, this is a major issue, not a 'beauty error'.


----------



## preizzo (Jun 17, 2021)

Matus said:


> Sorry to hear that Preizzo. I would have hoped that he would be a little more forthcoming. It is a second hand knife, but still, this is a major issue, not a 'beauty error'.


Exactly,he is just washing his hands


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## riba (Jun 17, 2021)

The return policy on his site rather changed.

Partial copy and paste:
-------
*Now*






How to buy | WATANABE BLADE


How to buy knives from Japan we accept Paypal, IPMO and bank transfer




www.kitchen-knife.jp





*Our Return Policy*
No matter that you used or not, we will exchange a inferior merchandise within 15 days. The 15 days are from when you received the item in new.
If the product has any problem or major error, we never have the guarantee beyond the 15 days. We will not accept any complaint or request for refund.
-----------
*2019*






How to buy | WATANABE BLADE


How to buy knives from Japan we accept Paypal, credit card, IPMO and bank transfer




web.archive.org





*Our Return Policy*
No matter that you used or not, we will exchange a inferior merchandise within 20 days.
While defects in the products we sell are rare, if you do have a problem due to a manufacturing defect, we will gladly replace the item at any time.


-------

Outrageous


----------



## friz (Jun 17, 2021)

We got to order a Toyama instead. Now I know.

How is the Watanabe Professional line doing though?


----------



## Ochazuke (Jun 17, 2021)

preizzo said:


> Apparently Shinichi just doesn't give a ****


Wow, yeah that’s pretty terrible. 

I understand having a strict return policy - I’ve had a lot of people try and return things at my shop that were their own stupidity. But if it’s our fault we always do our best to correct the issue.

There should be some recourse for a manufacturing defect like this case.


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## Knife.Knut (Jun 17, 2021)

Think this is Shinichi’s email [email protected]


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## Matus (Jun 17, 2021)

Hrayson said:


> [email protected]


As one can see above the contact was already established. May I ask where you have that email address from?


----------



## ian (Jun 17, 2021)

You can also try [email protected]



Edit: fwiw, I’ve only had good experiences with Watanabe


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## anko (Jun 17, 2021)

I've probably seen a knife posted here every month this year from his specials that is:
1. is fubar with lamination / grind / not straight OR
2. is listed WTS because it cuts like a meat cleaver OR
3. has been thinned for hours so it cuts well
Deal with that considering his prices, communication, and refusal to make problems right?


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## William Hunt (Jun 17, 2021)

I really hate reading the last few posts. I’m visiting family in NYC and I was seriously considering a trip to MTC. I guess I will keep the $440 that I was planning to spend there.


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## Ochazuke (Jun 17, 2021)

William Hunt said:


> I really hate reading the last few posts. I’m visiting family in NYC and I was seriously considering a trip to MTC. I guess I will keep the $440 that I was planning to spend there.


Bear in mind that while his "specials" and customer service are getting lambasted, the professional line is still a well-regarded line of knives.

MTC also does their own QC and has their own return/refund policies which are different from Watanabe's. You can probably buy from MTC with more peace of mind.


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## DitmasPork (Jun 17, 2021)

William Hunt said:


> I really hate reading the last few posts. I’m visiting family in NYC and I was seriously considering a trip to MTC. I guess I will keep the $440 that I was planning to spend there.



I’m horrified at Matteo’s experience.

That said, I’m a big fan of MTC, have 2 older Wats that I love. If you’re in NYC, by all means visit MTC, you can inspect the knife yourself.


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## William Hunt (Jun 17, 2021)

I’m still planning to go to MTC. I can’t imagine walking out of there empty handed. I will even pay the five cent for a bag lol


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 17, 2021)

I got my Wat stainless clad blue 2 from MTC and I really love it. The grind I love. The steel I love love. The price is lower than a Denka, a Kato or a wide bevel Y Tanaka with blue steel, and for my use I rank this blue 2 steel over Kato WH steel and Y Tanaka blue steel.


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## William Hunt (Jun 17, 2021)

That’s high praise. Thanks for restoring my confidence.


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## DitmasPork (Jun 17, 2021)

William Hunt said:


> That’s high praise. Thanks for restoring my confidence.



TBH, my confidence towards Wats have been shaken, knives from the 'specials' section, customs, bought online.


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## Jovidah (Jun 17, 2021)

At least if you can stop by the store and inspect the knife in person you know what you're getting in to. Significantly different level of risk from just ordering online and hoping you don't get a dud. Quite a shame people had somewhat of a Watasabi experience lately. I always had them in my head as a bit of a 'safe bet' (regardless of who actually makes the knives).


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## Matus (Jun 17, 2021)

Well, the specials' section looks like a quite a mixed collection of one-off knives that ware made likely by a variety of makers (very different shapes, grinds, finishes, steels, etc.), so it is hard to assign some quality measure to them via user experience. But I am yet to hear any complains about his Pro or Standard knives. The negative experience shared here was maybe 2 or 3 of his special knives, so I would not scratch him off a list of good vendors just yet.


----------



## anko (Jun 17, 2021)

I personally wouldn't buy an MTC Watanabe simply because I don't want to buy anything that puts money in his pocket. I'm sure they're great knives, but I'd buy a JNS Toyama instead.


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## DitmasPork (Jun 17, 2021)

anko said:


> I personally wouldn't buy an MTC Watanabe simply because I don't want to buy anything that puts money in his pocket. I'm sure they're great knives, but I'd buy a JNS Toyama instead.



I'm happy with my Wats, though the last one was bought in 2014. Matteo's experience does leave a sour taste for me.


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## Carlo (Jun 17, 2021)

William Hunt said:


> I really hate reading the last few posts. I’m visiting family in NYC and I was seriously considering a trip to MTC. I guess I will keep the $440 that I was planning to spend there.


You should definitely go. The showroom is well worth visiting.
And I think you will see no one has any real complaints about the “Pro” line aka Watoyayabnabe or whatever.

edit: I see I’m like the 5th to post this sentiment
Never was the quickest draw


----------



## riba (Jun 17, 2021)

Matus said:


> The negative experience shared here was maybe 2 or 3 of his special knives, so I would not scratch him off a list of good vendors just yet.


Personally, I am pretty shocked with the change in return policy.

To me, 'good vendor' equates service and quality control. The current return policy implies very little service.

(I actually own 3 specials (out of 5 Wats), and I am pleased with them.)


----------



## Barmoley (Jun 17, 2021)

He probably got tired of people complaining about measurements and variations that are very common and expected with hand made knives. As more people last year got into these knives, many of them lacked experience or knowledge of these. They just came on different forums, saw what was good and bought knives without understanding what they were buying. Still sucks and specials page knives are definitely suspect.

I wish in this case he stood behind his product as it is clearly a manufacturing issue and it would be nice of him to do something for Matteo.


----------



## Hamesjo (Jun 18, 2021)

Ai wey


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## Knife.Knut (Jun 18, 2021)

Matus said:


> As one can see above the contact was already established. May I ask where you have that email address from?


Have been corresponding with him for months on this address.
Like some others, I have had only good experiences w Shinichi n he has been very communicative.


----------



## hmh (Jun 18, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I believe it’s this Japanese local vendor. I placed an order for the 240 dammy through Zenmarket (forwarding service). Paid 53,523 yen to zenmarket before shipping fee to US. Let’s see how it goes.
> 鋭い切れ味！美しい波紋！三条手打ち鍛造鍛冶職人　外山作　臥龍　積層 青紙二号　 和牛刀　水牛桂鎬柄



Would really love to know how that turns out when you get the knife. Please keep us posted


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## superworrier (Jun 18, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I believe it’s this Japanese local vendor. I placed an order for the 240 dammy through Zenmarket (forwarding service). Paid 53,523 yen to zenmarket before shipping fee to US. Let’s see how it goes.
> 鋭い切れ味！美しい波紋！三条手打ち鍛造鍛冶職人　外山作　臥龍　積層 青紙二号　 和牛刀　水牛桂鎬柄



Curious about the fee/shipping costs. 360 USD for a 240mm SS clad there. I assume once you add fees and whatnot it comes out similar to MTC, but that damascus is not a bad price.


----------



## Mikeadunne (Jun 19, 2021)

is there a translate button?


----------



## tostadas (Jun 19, 2021)

Mikeadunne said:


> is there a translate button?


If you copy the link and paste it into google translate, it will give you a link for a translated page.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 19, 2021)

Mikeadunne said:


> is there a translate button?


I think if you open it with chrome you can right click on anywhere of the page and see a translate to English button.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 19, 2021)

hmh said:


> Would really love to know how that turns out when you get the knife. Please keep us posted


I’m supposed to get it by end of the June. That vendor has a 3-week back order time.


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## Chefget (Jun 21, 2021)

This is probably already been said but it looks like AZCK has literally dozens of them for sale


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## superworrier (Jun 21, 2021)

Chefget said:


> This is probably already been said but it looks like AZCK has literally dozens of them for sale


The 240mm is much cheaper than MTC, but interestingly they had it listed previously for more, but this one has a machi gap. Wonder if it's different or if Watoyama just has a machi gap sometimes.


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## kpham12 (Jun 21, 2021)

superworrier said:


> The 240mm is much cheaper than MTC, but interestingly they had it listed previously for more, but this one has a machi gap. Wonder if it's different or if Watoyama just has a machi gap sometimes.


Yeah, the 240 with the machi gap looks kind of curious. They list it at 8.75 inches, so it’s like 223 mm and the picture of the left side towards the tip kind of looks like an ura like it’s a single bevel knife. And they list the weight at 12oz when these usually weigh around 8oz, so if the specs are correct, I don’t think it’s a standard Wat Pro. The 240 with the Honduran rosewood handle looks great though.


----------



## Ochazuke (Jun 21, 2021)

superworrier said:


> The 240mm is much cheaper than MTC, but interestingly they had it listed previously for more, but this one has a machi gap. Wonder if it's different or if Watoyama just has a machi gap sometimes.


AZCK mixed up the photos of the gyuto and mioroshi deba. If you look at the mioroshi deba listing you can see it’s a gyuto photo and vice versa.


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## kpham12 (Jun 21, 2021)

Ochazuke said:


> AZCK mixed up the photos of the gyuto and mioroshi deba. If you look at the mioroshi deba listing you can see it’s a gyuto photo and vice versa.


Yeah, I see now. If the prices are correct, then that’s a great deal for a 240. Also the price on the 300 mm gyuto looks great. I wish I had a use for one.


----------



## tostadas (Jun 21, 2021)

Ochazuke said:


> AZCK mixed up the photos of the gyuto and mioroshi deba. If you look at the mioroshi deba listing you can see it’s a gyuto photo and vice versa.





kpham12 said:


> Yeah, I see now. If the prices are correct, then that’s a great deal for a 240. Also the price on the 300 mm gyuto looks great. I wish I had a use for one.


I think actually they swapped the names. Based on the specs listed, it seems the 240 should be $475, and the deba is $375


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## superworrier (Jun 21, 2021)

The 240mm gyuto with the ebony handle sold for 375 though hmm. It looks like they've sold some in the past, each at different prices. I see a 210mm sold for 325 and 375. And a 240mm sold for 415 in addition to the ebony at 375. It's usually a 100+ upgrade.

Digging around looking at Toyamas, the machi gap is consistent with the pics/listings being swapped. Single bevel Toyamas have machi with gap, no machi on double bevels. It kind of looks like they just messed up the names, the gyuto listing says chisel grind (single bevel).


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## Chefget (Jun 22, 2021)

AZCK stock is mostly consignment, and though they recommend prices to the consigner, it is up to the individual to set the price depending on how fast they wish to sell.


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## lemeneid (Jun 30, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I’m supposed to get it by end of the June. That vendor has a 3-week back order time.


Any update on your Dammy?


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jun 30, 2021)

lemeneid said:


> Any update on your Dammy?


No update. The seller hasn't shipped it out. : (


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 13, 2021)

lemeneid said:


> Any update on your Dammy?


Finally the knife has arrived the forwarding service’s warehouse. Now waiting for it to be shipped out.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 13, 2021)

I liked my old iron clad Watanabe. Some years
ago made a African Blackwood & Spalted Hawaiian signature wood ferrel. Oval comfortable in hand reddish tan streaking in the Blackwood.

Love the grind on this old Wat. Very assem. 

Have a Watanabe fish Deba too. Bought a dedicated fish steamer. It has rack, large oval dish with elevated edges. Even special tongs to
Lift dish out of steamer. Get fresh fish from
Chinatown. They get it from morning fish auction.

With fish steam broccoli, mushrooms, cherry tomato. Near finish add very thin matchstick cuts of fresh ginger, slivers of green onion, & cilantro on top fish. Add some citrus ponzu steam couple minutes more than pour hot oil on platter combo of peanut & sesame oils.
The fish will crackle when hot oil hits it 
Serve with rice. My better half likes when I steam fish chinese style


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 13, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> I liked my old iron clad Watanabe. Some years
> ago made a African Blackwood & Spalted Hawaiian signature wood ferrel. Oval comfortable in hand reddish tan streaking in the Blackwood.
> 
> Love the grind on this old Wat. Very assem.
> ...


Man you need the seasoned soy sauce for seafood to complete the recipe.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 13, 2021)

That's what ponzu is


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 13, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> That's what ponzu is


If you say so…


----------



## parbaked (Jul 13, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> That's what ponzu is



Sounds yummy but ponzu ain’t Chinese…
We finish with some combination of soy, sesame oil, scallions and/or cilantro


----------



## tostadas (Jul 13, 2021)

parbaked said:


> Sounds yummy but ponzu ain’t Chinese…
> We finish with some combination of soy, sesame oil, scallions and/or cilantro


Soy sauce, sugar, white pepper, hot oil and as much ginger, scallion and cilantro as you can physically cram onto the dish. Mmmm


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Jul 13, 2021)

Yes there are different versions of Chinese style
steamed fish. I had to cut out sugar don't miss
It. Fresh ginger & soy sauce go good with diff. 
fish dishes. We grow green onion & cilantro use them both. Broccoli & cherry tomato not used
traditionally but I like it. 

Chinese guy at work used peanut sesame oil 
mix for hot pour over. 

Get ponzu on sale citrus flavor soy sauce, vinegar, bonito, lemon juice, yeast extract.

It's Japanese, but works with steam fish.


----------



## superworrier (Jul 14, 2021)

I’ve been eating it the traditional Chinese way my whole life but ponzu doesn’t sound bad at all


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 14, 2021)

Yea cherry tomato and ponzu sound reasonable. It just reminds me of lemon juice or vinegar and feels fusion-like. When I eat steamed fish, I always pour some soup (the mixture of the seasoned soy sauce, fish juice and oil) on the rice. The rice with that soup is so delicious that I weigh it as important as the quality of fish. Not saying you can't make it sourer though.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Jul 14, 2021)

Was able to bring blood sugar back to normal
Not starving at all just changed way of eating.

We both lost a lot of weight, I got so skinny just cutting out sugar & processed foods. It was hard at first love potato chips. Eaten seafood all my life. No way give up fish, crab, shrimp, oysters, just don't use sauces with lots of sugar in them. Chinese & Japanese add sugar to sauces, but nothing compared to Americans
High fructose corn syrup is cheaper than cane 
sugar & even worse for your health they put it in everything. It's why type 2 diabetes & obesity is a major health concern in USA. People are addicted to sugar. 

It is amazing how many healthy foods taste good. Fresh ground cinnamon can be used instead of sugar & is very healthy. Make curries from scratch. Ginger & garlic, lemongrass, basil tumeric, chili peppers. Anything fresh spices, vegetables & fruits. Natural sugar fructose in whole unprocessed fruit.

OK sorry stop preaching. I love food got older
had to change.
.


----------



## riba (Jul 14, 2021)

Alright, I will attempt to prepare some fish this way. Thanks for the inspiration. (We have to increase the amount of fish we eat, so I am on the lookout for nice recipes.)
Will prepare with a Wat


----------



## Cliff (Jul 14, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> I liked my old iron clad Watanabe. Some years
> ago made a African Blackwood & Spalted Hawaiian signature wood ferrel. Oval comfortable in hand reddish tan streaking in the Blackwood.
> 
> Love the grind on this old Wat. Very assem.
> ...



What size is this? How much does it weigh?


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Jul 14, 2021)

Older more beefy Wat.
216mm heel to tip
50mm high at heel
7.33 oz

The handle has more weight than stock.


----------



## Cliff (Jul 14, 2021)

That is a nice, beefy one.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Jul 14, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Yea cherry tomato and ponzu sound reasonable. It just reminds me of lemon juice or vinegar and feels fusion-like. When I eat steamed fish, I always pour some soup (the mixture of the seasoned soy sauce, fish juice and oil) on the rice. The rice with that soup is so delicious that I weigh it as important as the quality of fish. Not saying you can't make it sourer though.



I hear you white pepper & sweeten soy sauce for steam fish is tasty. Steaming, not over cooking fish so it is moist not dry full of flavor
that is good on rice.


----------



## FishmanDE (Jul 15, 2021)

I just found this thread and thought it pertinent to pass along some information shared with me by the staff last time I was at MTC. They told me once the stainless clad Wats sell out, they will not be receiving any more. This is apparently a decision made by Mr. Watanabe


----------



## AT5760 (Jul 15, 2021)

@FishmanDE, no more stainless clad Wat, or no more Wat or any kind?


----------



## FishmanDE (Jul 15, 2021)

AT5760 said:


> @FishmanDE, no more stainless clad Wat, or no more Wat or any kind?


If I remember correctly, he said no more stainless. But it was a couple weeks ago now, my memory is a bit hazy and English was not his first language. I believe he said “these are stainless, once they’re gone, no more!” I foolishly didn’t ask for elaboration as I was enamored with the purchase I was making and I already have my dream Wat.


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## FishmanDE (Jul 15, 2021)

They also did have a 270 iron clad, which is the first time I’ve seen that there, so maybe they’re just switching to those. Regardless, the MTC stainless are 80ish cheaper than the average one from Arizona knives, so if someone’s looking to grab one through a third party to avoid a potential nightmare situation as was posted earlier, I’d buy sooner rather than later.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 19, 2021)

Finally got it today. Ordered on 5/31 and delivered by DHL today. Costed about $522 in total. I think the shipping fee by zen market is quite reasonble. The cost breakdown is 57,016 yen =50,700 knife + 950 local shipping + 3,371 DHL + 1,995 Zenmarket fee when you add the fund. The service is cheaper than I expected given how much TF and Heiji charge for DHL shipping.

The profile is almost identical to my Watanabe stainless clad blue 2, but it's heavier (237 gram vs 210 gram) because the spine is a little thicker from heel to the middle, and the grind a little more convex. It's actually a little heavier than the Toyama iron clad 240 I had until recently. I love these measurements as it's exactly what I want ----- something similar to Wat stainless clad blue 2 but a little beefier.


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## superworrier (Jul 19, 2021)

Curious to see whether the Dammy is reactive


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## lemeneid (Jul 19, 2021)

Such an awesome knife. Always loved my Watoyamas.

Now back to the scheduled Watanabe bashing.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Jul 20, 2021)

preizzo said:


> Apparently Shinichi just doesn't give a ****


what a knob, eh?



i have been waiting so goddamn long to make this joke


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## superworrier (Jul 20, 2021)

FishmanDE said:


> I just found this thread and thought it pertinent to pass along some information shared with me by the staff last time I was at MTC. They told me once the stainless clad Wats sell out, they will not be receiving any more. This is apparently a decision made by Mr. Watanabe


New delam edition


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 21, 2021)

superworrier said:


> Curious to see whether the Dammy is reactive


Here it is after just one meal. Cut some bell pepper, green onion, cucumber, sausage and tofu.


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## Mikeadunne (Jul 21, 2021)

are the Damascus at jns reactive as well?


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## tgfencer (Jul 21, 2021)

Mikeadunne said:


> are the Damascus at jns reactive as well?



Yes.


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## Mikeadunne (Jul 21, 2021)

tgfencer said:


> Yes.


thank you, that actually makes them a heck of a lot more appealing. not that I necessarily needed that in my life


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## BillHanna (Jul 21, 2021)

@Mikeadunne I don’t see any 180mm petties


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## Mikeadunne (Jul 22, 2021)

BillHanna said:


> @Mikeadunne I don’t see any 180mm petties


thank god, or my money would already be spent.


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## superworrier (Jul 25, 2021)

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Here it is after just one meal. Cut some bell pepper, green onion, cucumber, sausage and tofu.
> 
> View attachment 134970


Btw, was this handle hard to remove? Did you need to heat it?


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 26, 2021)

superworrier said:


> Btw, was this handle hard to remove? Did you need to heat it?


It’s burnt in so not difficult to remove at all. How I removed and installed the handle is similar to what this video shows. Just one note if you want to install a hard wood handle like ebony I wouldn’t recommend burn in though.


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## superworrier (Aug 13, 2021)

Got mine today. Ordered on June 23, arrived at the forwarder (FromJapan) a week ago, and arrived via EMS today. Total cost was 55460 yen. No loading fee at FromJapan, but it was re-packaged in a large-ish box so the shipping fee was somewhat high. 

Weighs around 240g for a 240mm. Quite heavy. Gonna put an initial edge on it and try it out tonight.


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## tostadas (Aug 13, 2021)

superworrier said:


> Got mine today. Ordered on June 23, arrived at the forwarder (FromJapan) a week ago, and arrived via EMS today. Total cost was 55460 yen. No loading fee at FromJapan, but it was re-packaged in a large-ish box so the shipping fee was somewhat high.
> 
> Weighs around 240g for a 240mm. Quite heavy. Gonna put an initial edge on it and try it out tonight.


Where did you order from originally?


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## superworrier (Aug 13, 2021)

tostadas said:


> Where did you order from originally?


Same place as the other guy. hamono.ocnk.net


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## superworrier (Aug 21, 2021)

Ok as I promised. Super reactive to onions so I flitzed it after the first use. Afterwards it got a nice patina and isn’t that reactive

Sharpened it once but I did a poor job or the huge weight made me dull it. Redid it with a micro bevel on one side but might need to keep this one at a lower grit as it is not as toothy as I like (I did SP1k-> arashiyama6).

Geometry and heft I like. Lives up to my super high expectations. Kinda cai dao like where more of the work is lifting the knife and the cutting is letting it fall. Just need to dial in the sharpening for this one. Ordered a nicer handle, but got delayed by USPS. The stock handle is horrible.


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## riba (Aug 21, 2021)

Looks like my Wat. Fantastic knife


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