# New to sharpening and need help...



## JASinIL2006 (Oct 7, 2021)

I'm pretty new to sharpening and I'm struggling a bit with my technique. I could really use some advice.

I picked up a Daovua 240 mm gyuto to use as a practice knife, and I've been using SG500 and SP2000 stones for sharpening. I've been using Peter Nowlan's Knife Planet school series as my guide. To dull the knife before sharpening, I've been rubbing it on the edge of a 320 stone until the edge is dull. When sharpening, I've been keeping the knife in my right hand and flipping it over (rather than switching hands) and using edge trailing strokes.

My problem (well, the biggest one, anyway) right now is that I'm having a very difficult time maintaining constant contact between the blade and the stone when sharpening the right side of the blade. I seem to be catching the edges of the stone (rocking the blade, I suppose) much more than when I'm sharpening the left side of the blade. In the pictures below, you can see the sharpie marks on the right side show I'm all over the place in making contact with the stone, while the left side picture shows only a nice, think line of contact at the edge.

I figure there has to be something screwy with my technique when sharpening the right side of the blade. Any ideas - other than 'keep practicing' - to help me find a more consistent stroke on the right side?

The only encouraging thing right now is that I'm actually starting to get a knife that's sharper than when I started. (That sadly was not the case on my first few attempts...) After my most recent session, the knife actually cut cleanly and smoothly through both printer paper and phone book paper, for pretty much the entire length of the blade. (Right at the heal was a bit grabbier, but even that cut cleanly.) The blade also cut some small carrots nicely; this is a fairly stout knife and it tends to wedge a fair amount; this was much more noticeable in the front 1/3 of the blade compared to the middle and back portions. (I'm assuming that may be partly due to my inability to hold my sharpening angle consistently the length of the blade?)

Any thoughts or suggestions on how to get my stroke on the right side a bit more consistent and level to the stone? I'd like to get this down a bit more before I try putting some of my better knives to the stones.

Thanks!


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## ian (Oct 7, 2021)

JASinIL2006 said:


> My problem (well, the biggest one, anyway) right now is that I'm having a very difficult time maintaining constant contact between the blade and the stone when sharpening the right side of the blade. I seem to be catching the edges of the stone (rocking the blade, I suppose) much more than when I'm sharpening the left side of the blade. In the pictures below, you can see the sharpie marks on the right side show I'm all over the place in making contact with the stone, while the left side picture shows only a nice, think line of contact at the edge.





JASinIL2006 said:


> Any thoughts or suggestions on how to get my stroke on the right side a bit more consistent and level to the stone? I'd like to get this down a bit more before I try putting some of my better knives to the stones.



Hmmm, where are you left hand fingers pressing? I could maybe imagine that you're pressing too high up the blade, with too much force, or with more of a forward motion when you're sharpening the right side of the blade. That would cause the blade to wobble as you go back and forth. That's at least one thing that really changes if you flip sides, since on the left side the edge will be away from you and your fingers won't tend to push the knife angle down as much. Otherwise, try to lock your wrist and use large muscles more than small muscles if possible. Also, try to feel the bevel contact the stones. It's easier to react to feeling than to visual feedback about the angle you're holding.

It's also possible that you're using a shallower angle on the right side, which makes it hard not to scuff the rest of the bevel. In particular, if the blade is asymmetrically ground for a righty and you use the same spine height over the stone to determine the angle on both sides, the bevel you create on the right side will be closer in angle to the wide bevel than it is on the left side, making it easier to scuff the rest of the blade. Maybe this paragraph is more likely to apply than the first, actually.


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## Benuser (Oct 7, 2021)

Not sure it has to do with your technique: both sides aren't identical. Often the right one is convex, the left one flatter. Doing exactly the same with both sides won't lead to identical bevels. By the way, there's no reason they should be.


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## Delat (Oct 7, 2021)

Assuming you're not seeing under grinds, you might try increasing the angle of attack. That is, instead of the tip pointing towards 10:00 have it point towards 11:00. That'll give you more blade surface in contact with the stone at once for stability, then you move your left hand further up the blade as you need to change the pressure point. Also try keeping your left hand closer to the edge.

You might also try pointing your index finger along the blade, and position it so that it's in contact with the stone. That can help with maintaining an angle as it forms a reference point at least for back half of the edge.

Also closely watch your right hand as you're sharpening, and you may see it dipping and rising. I have a tendency to dip at the end of a push and rise at the end of a pull. Knowing I do it and seeing it helps me to counteract it. Recently I realized that shorter strokes helps to negate that tendency, so you might try that as well.


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## JASinIL2006 (Oct 7, 2021)

ian said:


> Hmmm, where are you left hand fingers pressing? I could maybe imagine that you're pressing too high up the blade, with too much force, or with more of a forward motion when you're sharpening the right side of the blade. That would cause the blade to wobble as you go back and forth. That's at least one thing that really changes if you flip sides, since on the left side the edge will be away from you and your fingers won't tend to push the knife angle down as much. Otherwise, try to lock your wrist and use large muscles more than small muscles if possible. Also, try to feel the bevel contact the stones. It's easier to react to feeling than to visual feedback about the angle you're holding.



My left hand fingers are pretty close to the edge being sharpened, but I think you're probably right about applying to much pressure with my fingers on the pushing strokes away from me when sharpening the right side. Controlling my pressure with the left hand is something I'm still not very good at. As I think about it, I might be getting a bit 'wristy', too, when sharpening that side.



> It's also possible that you're using a shallower angle on the right side, which makes it hard not to scuff the rest of the bevel. In particular, if the blade is asymmetrically ground for a righty and you use the same spine height over the stone to determine the angle on both sides, the bevel you create on the right side will be closer in angle to the wide bevel than it is on the left side, making it easier to scuff the rest of the blade. Maybe this paragraph is more likely to apply than the first, actually.



I am pretty sure my angle is not terribly consistent yet. I have some of those plastic wedges and I've been shooting for about 12 degrees. I honestly am not sure about assymetry... I've been assuming the blade has a 50/50 grind, but it's not really a highly refined knife, so I'm unsure. 

Thanks for the reply; you've given me some things to think about (and to try).


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## JASinIL2006 (Oct 7, 2021)

Delat said:


> Assuming you're not seeing under grinds, you might try increasing the angle of attack. That is, instead of the tip pointing towards 10:00 have it point towards 11:00. That'll give you more blade surface in contact with the stone at once for stability, then you move your left hand further up the blade as you need to change the pressure point. Also try keeping your left hand closer to the edge.
> 
> You might also try pointing your index finger along the blade, and position it so that it's in contact with the stone. That can help with maintaining an angle as it forms a reference point at least for back half of the edge.
> 
> Also closely watch your right hand as you're sharpening, and you may see it dipping and rising. I have a tendency to dip at the end of a push and rise at the end of a pull. Knowing I do it and seeing it helps me to counteract it. Recently I realized that shorter strokes helps to negate that tendency, so you might try that as well.



Thanks, that is helpful. I think comment about my right hand dipping is probably correct; I think I have more wrist action than I should, which is maybe involved in the dipping/rising.


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## JASinIL2006 (Oct 7, 2021)

Benuser said:


> Not sure it has to do with your technique: both sides aren't identical. Often the right one is convex, the left one flatter. Doing exactly the same with both sides won't lead to identical bevels. By the way, there's no reason they should be.



I think the part I was most aware of was my 'wobbling' on the right side, although I hadn't really considered the sides being different and leading to different bevels. The part I'm most aware of is feeling the blade riding or catching the edges of the stones (what I call a wobble). If the right side is more convex, would that contribute to my failure to keep even contact with the stone?


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## ian (Oct 7, 2021)

JASinIL2006 said:


> The part I'm most aware of is feeling the blade riding or catching the edges of the stones (what I call a wobble). If the right side is more convex, would that contribute to my failure to keep even contact with the stone?



You might check to see if the blade is straight. If it bends toward the right a bit, you’ll feel the catching on the edge of the stone thing when you sharpen the right side, but not the left. Wouldn’t be so surprising with a Dao Vua.


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## IsoJ (Oct 7, 2021)

It is DaoVua and the one that I have, it wouldn't be impossible if the edge isn't straight with yours either. Good thing is, if the edge isn't straight, the blade bends easily, so with little effort you can straighten it. The grind is awful inconsistent in mine, propably the worst that I have seen, so I wouldn't pay attention what is happening +10mm behind the edge for now and just focus of getting clean and sharp edge.


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## Benuser (Oct 7, 2021)

JASinIL2006 said:


> I think the part I was most aware of was my 'wobbling' on the right side, although I hadn't really considered the sides being different and leading to different bevels. The part I'm most aware of is feeling the blade riding or catching the edges of the stones (what I call a wobble). If the right side is more convex, would that contribute to my failure to keep even contact with the stone?


No, I don't think so. But don't worry about bevels being equal or not. At the same angle, the bevel on the convex side will be wider.
If you have troubles in keeping even contact with the stone, the blade may be far too thick, which is often the case with neglected ones. Or the angle too low and you don't reach the edge. You only remove steel behind the edge, which is fine, but not what you're aiming for at this point.
What might be helpful at this stage, is a reference for the angle. If the wedges you're currently using are fixed to the blade, they will cause problems at the belly and tip. I made pieces of wood or cork, cut at an angle corresponding to some standard sharpening angles, say 8 degrees for a back bevel, 12 , 15 and 18 for the final one. The absolute value isn't all that interesting: it's about keeping a constant angle and verifying when it becomes more difficult. At the beginning you may want to verify every stroke by laying the blade on that piece of wood or cork, to fix your wrist. Later on, you will use it only at the beginning. Even later, you will hardly use it any longer. As you now feel uncertain about keeping the sharpening angle it may help.
Another suggestion, if you don't mind: you already use a sharpie to make sure where you're actually abrading steel. It's an excellent tool. However, it happens that you raise a burr, but the very edge, where the bevels are supposed to meet, hasn't yet been reached. Strange, because the ink seems to be gone. If you were to look at it with a loupe you would see there still is a tiny line of ink. So, the burr occurred before the very edge was reached. There's no fresh edge, and you're only accumulating debris on top of the old edge. So, get a loupe, say 8x-12x. Perhaps you have a standard lens from a SLR camera. It works as well. Use the front lens as an occular, so turn it around.
After this severe text, above all, have fun!


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## Delat (Oct 7, 2021)

Benuser said:


> What might be helpful at this stage, is a reference for the angle. If the wedges you're currently using are fixed to the blade, they will cause problems at the belly and tip. I made pieces of wood or cork, cut at an angle corresponding to some standard sharpening angles, say 8 degrees for a back bevel, 12 , 15 and 18 for the final one. The absolute value isn't all that interesting: it's about keeping a constant angle and verifying when it becomes more difficult. At the beginning you may want to verify every stroke by laying the blade on that piece of wood or cork, to fix your wrist. Later on, you will use it only at the beginning. Even later, you will hardly use it any longer. As you now feel uncertain about keeping the sharpening angle it may help.



I used a set of these when I first started sharpening.


Amazon.com


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## JASinIL2006 (Oct 7, 2021)

Benuser said:


> No, I don't think so. But don't worry about bevels being equal or not. At the same angle, the bevel on the convex side will be wider.
> If you have troubles in keeping even contact with the stone, the blade may be far too thick, which is often the case with neglected ones. Or the angle too low and you don't reach the edge. You only remove steel behind the edge, which is fine, but not what you're aiming for at this point.
> What might be helpful at this stage, is a reference for the angle. If the wedges you're currently using are fixed to the blade, they will cause problems at the belly and tip. I made pieces of wood or cork, cut at an angle corresponding to some standard sharpening angles, say 8 degrees for a back bevel, 12 , 15 and 18 for the final one. The absolute value isn't all that interesting: it's about keeping a constant angle and verifying when it becomes more difficult. At the beginning you may want to verify every stroke by laying the blade on that piece of wood or cork, to fix your wrist. Later on, you will use it only at the beginning. Even later, you will hardly use it any longer. As you now feel uncertain about keeping the sharpening angle it may help.
> Another suggestion, if you don't mind: you already use a sharpie to make sure where you're actually abrading steel. It's an excellent tool. However, it happens that you raise a burr, but the very edge, where the bevels are supposed to meet, hasn't yet been reached. Strange, because the ink seems to be gone. If you were to look at it with a loupe you would see there still is a tiny line of ink. So, the burr occurred before the very edge was reached. There's no fresh edge, and you're only accumulating debris on top of the old edge. So, get a loupe, say 8x-12x. Perhaps you have a standard lens from a SLR camera. It works as well. Use the front lens as an occular, so turn it around.
> After this severe text, above all, have fun!



I'll give the loupe a try to look at the sharpie line... I have one but I've not been entirely sure what I'm looking for... 

The angle guides I have aren't attached to the knife; I just set them on the stone every so often to check my angle or remind me to be consistent. 

Thanks for all the suggestions!


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## JASinIL2006 (Oct 7, 2021)

Delat said:


> I used a set of these when I first started sharpening.
> 
> 
> Amazon.com



Those are exactly what I've been using. For now, they are pretty helpful!


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## Benuser (Oct 7, 2021)

JASinIL2006 said:


> I'll give the loupe a try to look at the sharpie line... I have one but I've not been entirely sure what I'm looking for...


You want any ink to have gone. No ink line on top of the edge.


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## Matt Jacobs (Oct 7, 2021)

you could try switching hands when you flip the knife. I started with always holding the knife in my dominant hand. I then tried switching hands and got better results. Recently I switched back to just one hand to see if I could improve and maintain more constant pressure. It is working well for me but I have to really concentrate and go slow.


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 6, 2022)

Reviving this thread for an update and a question.

I have continued practicing my sharpening on the Daovua and while I've really become much better, I still have had trouble with the right side of the knife. I was still getting scuffs in the Sharpie marking similar to (but not as bad as) the first photo in post #1 above. The left side looks great, but I continued to have problems on the right. Even so, I was getting nice clean cuts both printer paper and phone book paper.

After re-reading some of the suggestions above, I started to wonder if the problem was at least partly caused by the knife and its relative lack of refinement. To check, I pulled out a better knife, a 240mm Yuki and sharpened it. I found that, while the right side was a little less consistent than the left, it nevertheless was WAY better than when I sharpened the Daovua, and I was able to get a really good edge on the Yuki. I still have some work to do, but I'm getting the basics of sharpening (holding a fairly consistent angle, raising and remove a burr, etc.).

In looking at the Daovua, I think the grind on the right side of the blade is somewhat irregular - I'd almost describe it as bit 'wavy'. This knife is also pretty chunky behind the edge (partly due to my repeated practice on it), and I'm thinking I might be ready for some refinement/thinning practice on this knife. My question: what is the best way to go about this? I have several lower grit stones: an Atoma 140 diamond plate (used thus far for flattening stones), a Shapton Pro 320, a Shapton Glass 500 and a Shapton Pro 1000. From what I've read, it sounds like I'd want to start no higher than the 320, but I've also seem some suggestions to use sandpaper for thinning. I'm just not sure what makes the most sense to start with. Thanks for any suggestions!


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## M1k3 (Jan 6, 2022)

Start on the 320. Go from there.


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## cotedupy (Jan 6, 2022)

Yeah I'd be with @M1k3 . Try flattening the main bevel to some level of consistency on the 320, then build the edge from the 500 going up. If you've got similar bevels on both sides of the knife then you should be able to tell more easily if you need to sort any lapses of technique.

The other thing I'd say is... I sharpen in the same way as you; I'm right handed and always hold the knife in my right hand, I don't sharpen ambidextrously. Below are a couple of pictures of how I hold the knife, this blade doesn't have a handle, so it's not exactly accurate, but you get the gist. The second picture obviously shows how I'm holding it to sharpen the RHS. If you're not already holding it with your forefinger on the spine like that - try it. It gives a lot more stability in terms of maintaining angle. (And obviously I'm going to be using the left hand to apply pressure, I just couldn't take a picture of that otherwise I'd drop my phone!)

Otherwise obviously it's just practice! Sounds like you're on the right path though .


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## cotedupy (Jan 6, 2022)

(p.s. Very well-described original post btw, in terms of pictures, and explaining important details about your technique etc. Kudos!)


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## ian (Jan 6, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> My question: what is the best way to go about this? I have several lower grit stones: an Atoma 140 diamond plate (used thus far for flattening stones), a Shapton Pro 320, a Shapton Glass 500 and a Shapton Pro 1000. From what I've read, it sounds like I'd want to start no higher than the 320, but I've also seem some suggestions to use sandpaper for thinning. I'm just not sure what makes the most sense to start with. Thanks for any suggestions!



I agree with @M1k3, but also, don't stress too much about which stones you're going to use at this stage. If you start at too high a grit, you'll know you should go lower because it'll take forever to make any progress. If you start too low, the worst that'll happen is you'll create some deep scratches that'll take a while to get out. (As long as you keep checking your work, it's hard to really f up the geometry of a knife on stones, because it takes so long. The exception to this is that knives that are super thin behind the edge will get much less thin behind the edge quickly if you use a coarse stone.) In terms of which coarse stones to use, or whether to use sandpaper, or whatever, it's all about solving issues that you've been getting annoyed with while thinning for hours. People use sandpaper because they get sick of flattening their stones and would rather just throw out the paper. People prefer one coarse stone over another because they prefer the stone dishing to having to deal with it glazing over, etc.. etc...

Moral: basically any stone works for anything*. Try it out. If you eventually find some part of it frustrating, you can ask around to see if other solutions would work better. 



*ok, don't try to thin anything on a 12k.


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 17, 2022)

OK, so I'm trying to thin this DaoVua gyuto and I (of course) have a question: as I'm thinning (originally on a SG500 and now on a SP 320), I'm seeing shiny spots where the blade clearly has made contact with the stones, but there are other spots that remain untouched (or barely touched; see circled areas in photo below). My interpretation is that these untouched spots are a reflection of an inconsistent grind on the knife, and these spots are bridging between thicker parts of the blade. In the clearest example of this, at the heel of blade, I'm getting good contact with the very heel and with a spot just in front of the logo, about an inch and half from the heel. If I am understanding this correctly, I'm going to need to keep thinning until I'm getting consistent contact over that entire region of the blade. 

Does that make sense?


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 17, 2022)

Yes it makes sense but I personally would not worry about grinding until everything is even. It is also possible there's some subtle bends in the blade that could cause a similar result but sticking with the uneven grind idea, it's just the way it is.

Nearly every knife I've ventured into thinning is uneven to some degree or another. You could be grinding forever and lose a ton of metal trying to get everything even. Successive work might sort it out over time. Tackle the majority and call it a day.

That's what I do anyway and I'm surely no expert. Others may have different advice.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Jan 17, 2022)

If it were mine I would just keep thinning the areas that you are hitting until I was satisfied with those spots. The areas that you are not hitting is because they are already thin.

After you've worked up through finer grits you can clean up the spots that were un touched with finger stones or sand paper if the aesthetics are a problem.


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 17, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> OK, so I'm trying to thin this DaoVua gyuto and I (of course) have a question: as I'm thinning (originally on a SG500 and now on a SP 320), I'm seeing shiny spots where the blade clearly has made contact with the stones, but there are other spots that remain untouched (or barely touched; see circled areas in photo below).
> View attachment 161129



I don't even see shiny spots here, I see mud over the top of the marker you applied to witness abrasion. This reminds me of the aggravating mess that is the Cerax 320 when one attempts to use it this way. Assuming those really are low spots (use a straightedge to check) I would use something less muddy and a lot more aggressive to even out an area that large. I really mean aggressive, like 80 or 120 grit Cubitron II sandpaper, or the coarse side of the Zandstra FOSS 7205 speed-skating stone.


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## M1k3 (Jan 17, 2022)

I would focus more on evening out right near the edge. The rest is more aesthetic. Just my opinion in balancing out fixing it and keeping material.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 17, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> I would focus more on evening out right near the edge. The rest is more aesthetic. Just my opinion in balancing out fixing it and keeping material.



I agree. The most benefit I ever get from thinning is the shoulders of the edge bevel.


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 17, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> I would focus more on evening out right near the edge. The rest is more aesthetic. Just my opinion in balancing out fixing it and keeping material.



Part of what I was hoping to accomplish was to smooth out the shoulder because I was having trouble maintaining an even edge because the blade is kind of wavy on the right side. I ground it down a bit more on that side and it’s looking better. Interestingly, the left side was pretty eve down the length of the blade.

I did work on the area right above the edge and the did a simple progression (SG500, SP2000) and the knife is sharper than I’ve seen it. Cuts very nicely on copier paper and phonebook paper, but less great on paper towel. It could be a little bit thinner behind the edge, but good enough for today’s practice.

Other than the finish, which looks like heck, it feels like progress. At this point, I’m not very concerned about the appearance of the knife, since I really got it just to practice.


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 17, 2022)

Mr.Wizard said:


> I don't even see shiny spots here, I see mud over the top of the marker you applied to witness abrasion. This reminds me of the aggravating mess that is the Cerax 320 when one attempts to use it this way. Assuming those really are low spots (use a straightedge to check) I would use something less muddy and a lot more aggressive to even out an area that large. I really mean aggressive, like 80 or 120 grit Cubitron II sandpaper, or the coarse side of the Zandstra FOSS 7205 speed-skating stone.



No mud on the blade at all. It was washed and wiped before I took the picture. The light spots are shiny from the stone.


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## ModRQC (Jan 17, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> OK, so I'm trying to thin this DaoVua gyuto and I (of course) have a question: as I'm thinning (originally on a SG500 and now on a SP 320), I'm seeing shiny spots where the blade clearly has made contact with the stones, but there are other spots that remain untouched (or barely touched; see circled areas in photo below). My interpretation is that these untouched spots are a reflection of an inconsistent grind on the knife, and these spots are bridging between thicker parts of the blade. In the clearest example of this, at the heel of blade, I'm getting good contact with the very heel and with a spot just in front of the logo, about an inch and half from the heel. If I am understanding this correctly, I'm going to need to keep thinning until I'm getting consistent contact over that entire region of the blade.
> 
> Does that make sense?
> 
> View attachment 161129



I think there we mostly see where your fingers were pressing on the other side. Usually comes from two things with a beginner's technique: you're trying to go too fast/robotize your movements, which always seem a good idea to hit the entire bevel until realizing most of the stuff happens just where you tend to repeatedly press yout fingers. Otherwise, another thing that happen is often looking on the "other side" of the blade to see if doing right, and upon seeing that scratch pattern has gone "out of countrol" aka "out your preset area you colored with Sharpie" you're sort of getting scared of totally messing the knife up and use much less pressure for a while until force of habit kicks in and you're back to full pressure and robotized finger placement that is not efficient. They sort for work together quite well as you see, one leading into the other.

Start with just two fingers pressure, kept touching together. Start with just the heel section, two fingers covering from the very tip of the heel/area to where they land at that position. Use long strokes, but few. Yes, scratch pattern will go forward of pressure, but continue on with only just the next "two fingers area" right beside the original and so on. Always use long stokes, but always use as few also. See what it gives you once your two fingers step reach the tip. If some area seem to be a bit less touched compared to overall, don't focus on it immediately, but do a second round of the same. And a third round. If spots are still quite obvious that don't seem to get touched as much, NOW you may start to think there MIGHT be an overgrind there.

Best way to chase an overgrind is to alternatively focus pressure on the two spots that are on each side of the low spot, and then on the low spot, and see which of both, or if both, seem to carry the same improvements to the situation, and continue with alterning with more focus on the way that seems to work faster if any.

From there is the grey zone: do you really want to _totally _flatten the bevel you're cutting/following. And if all of the above doesn't seem to pan out, when do you stop and reconsider this and ask more questions before going on? Or decide to live with the consequences and learning of your deciding to press forward and see what you get at...

I'm so very really happy for you. It's not cool to be thinking we're doing wrong, but there's only once place to start my friend, and it's a nice place soon enough, and you've just found yourself unlocking it and getting right in the middle of it, looking around you at everything that is so mysterious about it...

Good continuation!


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 17, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> No mud on the blade at all. It was washed and wiped before I took the picture. The light spots are shiny from the stone.



Are we looking at the same image? Maybe it is an optical illusion but I cannot see this as anything other than mud.


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## ian (Jan 17, 2022)

ModRQC said:


> In think there we mostly see where your fingers were pressing on the other side.



There’s no way that’s just from finger pressure. They’re low spots. It’s not like some parts are thinned a little more than others… there are barely any scratches on the low spots.

OP: you can get rid of all low spots, but it might essentially mean you regrind the knife. Those Dao Vua knives are not known for consistent grinds. Making it nice and consistent for a few mm behind the edge or so, like @M1k3 was saying, is a good idea. If desired, you can refinish the blade with sandpaper, which will go in and out of the low spots, and then put on an even looking edge bevel with stones.


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## stringer (Jan 17, 2022)

Mr.Wizard said:


> Are we looking at the same image? Maybe it is an optical illusion but I cannot see this as anything other than mud.
> 
> View attachment 161152


I think he's saying those are high spots that got shiny


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## ModRQC (Jan 17, 2022)

ian said:


> There’s no way that’s just from finger pressure. They’re low spots. It’s not like some parts are thinned a little more than others… there are barely any scratches on the low spots.
> 
> OP: you can get rid of all low spots, but it might essentially mean you regrind the knife. Those Dao Vua knives are not known for consistent grinds. Making it nice and consistent for a few mm behind the edge or so, like @M1k3 was saying, is a good idea. If desired, you can refinish the blade with sandpaper, which will go in and out of the low spots, and then put on an even looking edge bevel with stones.



Unless I see the guy grinding that bevel, I'm quite surprised you'd say that. Typical results in my mind of very little work carried yet and getting scared so I do not see your point at all.

Edit: I've never seen such obvious untouched spots with ANY knife whatsoever unless pressuring some same spots and stopping dead out of scare or just not being conscious at all and applying full pressure at a 15* angle in some places while working low pressure at a very low angle at others, and anything in between.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 17, 2022)

Mr.Wizard said:


> Are we looking at the same image? Maybe it is an optical illusion but I cannot see this as anything other than mud.
> 
> View attachment 161152



I don't see that at all.

OP, I'd just soldier on.


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## ModRQC (Jan 17, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I don't see that at all.
> 
> OP, I'd just soldier on.



He's half right I believe.... on the edge, wasn't wipped correctly. Out of not wanting to cut himself or not realizing the different angles the towel/rag did not meet. The rest seems clean and yes, some of it results of mud overheads, but I indeed do not see the mud itself being still there.


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 17, 2022)

It's the dress all over again!


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## ModRQC (Jan 17, 2022)

Mr.Wizard said:


> It's the dress all over again!



Aaah yes... if Blue and Black or White and Gold would be my only of two absolute choices for that picture and natural light refraction and/or filter, I'll just renounce eyesight entirely at that point.

Black? Who sees black in these stripes?

Studies into perception can stop there. That is just plain, sold all around bad screen RGB on many devices if there's black there.


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## ian (Jan 17, 2022)

ModRQC said:


> Unless I see the guy grinding that bevel, I'm quite surprised you'd say that. Typical results in my mind of very little work carried yet and getting scared so I do not see your point at all.
> 
> Edit: I've never seen such obvious untouched spots with ANY knife whatsoever unless pressuring some same spots and stopping dead out of scare or just not being conscious at all and applying full pressure at a 15* angle in some places while working low pressure at a very low angle at others, and anything in between.



 I see untouched spots all the time when the blade has low spots. The OP started on SG 500 and then went to SP 320 iirc, presumably because the work wasn’t going fast enough. I don’t think this is a case of “5 swipes and I’m too scared to continue”, although if the blade road was flat I still think there’s no way it would look like that even if he did stop after 5 strokes. That blade just looks like the grind is crazy uneven. Which is not surprising at all given that it’s a Dao Vua.

Anyway, you’re right that I don’t know what his thinning mechanics looked like. Presumably the OP can verify that they’re high/low spots, though, if that’s the case.


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## ModRQC (Jan 17, 2022)

You don't know SP320 if he did anything more than a few, pressured at the same place on same areas strokes. There's no way you do a full heel to tip thing on a sufficiently watered SP320 and don't develop some mud enough that there's no bad grind to look like this, even a Dao Vua, that wouldn't also show with any factory finish because it means VERY IMPORTANT grind wonks are happening there. Like impossible grind wonks. Impossible like it looks so obvious to me from that picture. 

Unless... 

But yeah whatever.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 17, 2022)

I don't know about the SP, but the SG500 isn't leaving mud on the blade.


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## ian (Jan 17, 2022)

ModRQC said:


> You don't know SP320 if he did anything more than a few, pressured at the same place on same areas strokes. There's no way you do a full heel to tip thing on a sufficiently watered SP320 and don't develop some mud enough that there's no bad grind to look like this, even a Dao Vua, that wouldn't also show with any factory finish because it means VERY IMPORTANT grind wonks are happening there. Like impossible grind wonks. Impossible like it looks so obvious to me from that picture.
> 
> Unless...
> 
> But yeah whatever.




Only the OP can tell us, I suppose! ❤


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## ModRQC (Jan 17, 2022)

Good luck on that if we dissected this that much ahead of any answer of his. In more than 75% of human cases such an answer would be tainted by the follow-up of answers one likes the most.

Oh God... can't ever get rid of both my analyst side and my pessimistic side.... 

In effect I almost included that in my last answer... but I just CAN'T believe what I don't see against what I do.


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 17, 2022)

ModRQC said:


> ... but I just CAN'T believe what I don't see against what I do.



That's what I am suffering; I see mud even if I am assured that it is absolutely not there.


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## ModRQC (Jan 17, 2022)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> I don't know about the SP, but the SG500 isn't leaving mud on the blade.



Not on the blade road. What @Mr.Wizard remarks about the edge though is indeed weird, but not surprising if one considers OP just took a picture after some quick wiping of water/dirt he readily saw on the blade.


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## ModRQC (Jan 17, 2022)

Mr.Wizard said:


> That's what I am suffering; I see mud even if I am assured that it is absolutely not there.



The above.


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## ModRQC (Jan 17, 2022)

To keep adding to already edited picture, we see 7 different red circles/ellipses I added, from left (1) to right (7):

1 - it just happened out of hitting the stones in angles all kind of wrong or applying much pressure on the very heel at first not knowing; getting afraid; trying to keep the scratches thereoff lower still unsure do I want to go there/what's there. Checking my other side often. OR... distancing my pressure points way too much because these where my first strokes and I didn't know what to expect at all.

2 - a clear two finger falling back into more pressure yet getting quite shy right after again. In the right after, we see...

3- a shift of one of those two fingers in 2, for a couple strokes. Hard to determine, was it seeing that spot, or just the much more plainer #2, that got the OP so shy in the following segment? That following segment I did not circle is what makes me doubt of the otherwise so very obvious first "overgrind" I did NOT circle neither. In my sense, no real as much pressure/work at all ever happened there. If a getting scared thing it was applyting pressure close to tip of heel in an exploratory fashion and realizing angle was off/these stone things are acting weird with angle/what I see. SP320 is good at that.

4-Another clear two fingers, now somewhat distanced. Trying to get the bearing of this thing and close/distanced fingers or wrong judging of how the sratch pattern carries have proven real scary real fast so far.

5- I'd say, starting to understand pressure level has more effeciency. and understanding there is no going back for sure by now. Two fingers but with one now overriding the other? A common mistake/happenstance of unsure sharpening/thinning/polishing of such kind almost naturally occurs where a blade gets much narrower for someone not execting/foreseeing it as a more delicate area to thread on. More pressure also a common mistake of feeling the angle applied before not touching/feeling like it did an inch before.

6-7 bla bla bla....


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## M1k3 (Jan 17, 2022)

If OP didn't let us know the maker and wanted us to guess, I would of picked TFTFTFTFTFTF


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 17, 2022)

I truly appreciate the input from everyone. To clarify, there is absolutely no mud or anything on the blade. The light spots that you see are not mud, they are shiny spots from where I was rubbing the blade over the stone. Absolutely nothing on the blade, other than the marker. Of this, you can be 100% certain. The marks you see in the kurouchi are scuffs, not mud. The stuff in the red ovals in @ModRQC’s edited pic are either shiny spots from the stone or, near the edge, places where the sharpie was worn off.

Also, I did not just run the right side of the knife over my SP 320 stone four or five times. I worked on it for a good 15 or 20 minutes, maybe longer. Although my technique is pretty rudimentary, I was moving the pressure points of my fingers up and down the blade and towards and away from the edge, in the hopes of figuring out why I had these spots that were not getting cleaned up. I don’t think it’s the hollows are caused by where I was putting pressure on the blade.

@ian in post #38 has it exactly right.


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 18, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> If OP didn't let us know the maker and wanted us to guess, I would of picked TFTFTFTFTFTF



I think the TFs look pretty refined compared to my DaoVua!


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## madmotts (Jan 18, 2022)

Sympathizing with the OP. I’m pretty novice to thinning but that untouched/low area is giving me flashbacks. Sometimes you gotta let it be low. There can be irregularities that prevent the knife from being totally flat/even. In a few of my projects last year I gave up and free hand sanded it so it didn’t annoy me as much.


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## Garm (Jan 18, 2022)

I agree with @ian here, given how the OP is describing his process.
I'm working on a Munetoshi atm with some similar, albeit less dramatically, troublesome areas. I've just decided to let a few of them remain rather than losing too much material.
But then again, I also see a blue dress with black stripes..


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 18, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> The stuff in the red ovals in @ModRQC’s edited pic are either shiny spots from the stone or, near the edge, places where the sharpie was worn off.
> 
> Also, I did not just run the right side of the knife over my SP 320 stone four or five times. I worked on it for a good 15 or 20 minutes, maybe longer.



Thanks, that helps my brain. I can now see the edge as mostly sharpie with some places worn off. Before I was seeing the dark parts as reflection from a clean bevel

If you are determined to even out the grind my earlier advice stands: get something a lot more aggressive. #320 is really too fine for working an area this large.


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## M1k3 (Jan 18, 2022)

Mr.Wizard said:


> Thanks, that helps my brain. I can now see the edge as mostly sharpie with some places worn off. Before I was seeing the dark parts as reflection from a clean bevel
> 
> If you are determined to even out the grind my earlier advice stands: get something a lot more aggressive. #320 is really too fine for working an area this large.


Sigma 240 or coarse crystolon are good not expensive options.


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 18, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Sigma 240 or coarse crystolon are good not expensive options.



Something like this?



https://www.amazon.com/Norton-Abrasives-Crystolon-Combination-Benchstone/dp/B00CQ884UW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2ASLRKR3ECHQE&keywords=Norton+Abrasives+-+St.+Gobain+85450+Crystolon+Coarse%2FFine+Combination+Grit+Benchstone%2C+Premium+Silicon+Carbide+Abrasive%2C+6%22+L+x+2%22+W+x+1%22+H&qid=1642537207&sprefix=norton+abrasives+-+st.+gobain+85450+crystolon+coarse%2Ffine+combination+grit+benchstone%2C+premium+silicon+carbide+abrasive%2C+6+l+x+2+w+x+1+h%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-1


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Jan 18, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> Something like this?


Yes, but I would prefer a single grit coarse stone available for about the same price. I have an older version of that combo and while the fine side is usable I think most of us already own far nicer stones in the range of the fine Crystolon.


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## M1k3 (Jan 18, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> Something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Norton-Abrasives-Crystolon-Combination-Benchstone/dp/B00CQ884UW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2ASLRKR3ECHQE&keywords=Norton+Abrasives+-+St.+Gobain+85450+Crystolon+Coarse%2FFine+Combination+Grit+Benchstone%2C+Premium+Silicon+Carbide+Abrasive%2C+6%22+L+x+2%22+W+x+1%22+H&qid=1642537207&sprefix=norton+abrasives+-+st.+gobain+85450+crystolon+coarse%2Ffine+combination+grit+benchstone%2C+premium+silicon+carbide+abrasive%2C+6+l+x+2+w+x+1+h%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-1


That's the 6x2 version. If you can deal with that stone size, yes. Otherwise get the 8x2 one.









Norton Combination Crystolon Stone


Made from silicon carbide abrasive, these Norton Combination Crystolon stones can quickly put an edge on your tool or knife. These two-sided stones feature a coarse side for establishing an edge, and a fine side for refining the edge.



www.sharpeningsupplies.com


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## M1k3 (Jan 18, 2022)

Norton Crystolon Bench Stone 8" x 3"


SPECIAL: Save when you purchase all 3 grits. The Norton Crystolon bench stones are made of silicon carbide.



www.sharpeningsupplies.com


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 18, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Norton Crystolon Bench Stone 8" x 3"
> 
> 
> SPECIAL: Save when you purchase all 3 grits. The Norton Crystolon bench stones are made of silicon carbide.
> ...



Thanks!


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 18, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> Thanks!



I've used Crystolons for years and I use them with oil. Others do not. For the kind of work you're talking about, you can use laxative grad mineral oil.


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 18, 2022)

Oil rather than water? Are there advantages to using one or the other for this type of work?


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 18, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> Oil rather than water? Are there advantages to using one or the other for this type of work?



They are oil stones and already impregnated. But, some folks don't like messing with oil so they use water. I find they clog too fast with water, especially for heavy work.


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 18, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> Something like this?



I favor a large stone for flattening, at least 10" long. A 6" stone would drive me nuts unless I were using it like an axe puck. If you don't want to buy a big stone try a pack of 3M Pro Grade Precision with Cubitron II sandpaper. 

Here is a list of large stones I put together.


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## Nemo (Jan 18, 2022)

I tend to use sandpaper for heavy thinning jobs. You can choose your grit and it never dishes. It will wear out after a while and you will need a new strip of sandpaper, but probably less often than you would need to flatten a very coarse stone.

I mount it on a Kasfly, which is great but moderately expensive.

You could possibly rig up a sandpaper holder out of easily and cheaply available hardware supplies. Maybe a sandpaper holder/ sanding board and a bench vice to hold the handle of the sanding board? Make sure that the sanding board has a rigid backing unless you want convexity in the sanded surface.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 18, 2022)

I often just wrap sandpaper around a stone and use my stone holder to keep it in place. For gross removal work it is sufficient.

Kasfly's are sweet though.


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## ModRQC (Jan 18, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> I truly appreciate the input from everyone. To clarify, there is absolutely no mud or anything on the blade. The light spots that you see are not mud, they are shiny spots from where I was rubbing the blade over the stone. Absolutely nothing on the blade, other than the marker. Of this, you can be 100% certain. The marks you see in the kurouchi are scuffs, not mud. The stuff in the red ovals in @ModRQC’s edited pic are either shiny spots from the stone or, near the edge, places where the sharpie was worn off.
> 
> Also, I did not just run the right side of the knife over my SP 320 stone four or five times. I worked on it for a good 15 or 20 minutes, maybe longer. Although my technique is pretty rudimentary, I was moving the pressure points of my fingers up and down the blade and towards and away from the edge, in the hopes of figuring out why I had these spots that were not getting cleaned up. I don’t think it’s the hollows are caused by where I was putting pressure on the blade.
> 
> @ian in post #38 has it exactly right.



Mud along the edge... if those are bright spots I don't know what you were doing since anyway you want to put it, the rest of your edge is much more polished, so then these white spots that, as numerous as they are, none of them can't seem to just cover the edge bevel entirely where they are, nor rise above it as they are... are what?

My red circles weren't for mud, but for obvious insisting with finger pressure where there wasn't at other places. These kind of marks don't appear out of nowhere.

15-20 minutes? That's about the time it would take getting a real bad bevel to get much more decent, even coverage on both sides than what pictured, and show more localized if dire low spots. And that's something very very terrible, which I surmise DaoVua can be. But if it is as much as that spot shows vs. what you're saying, I'd like to see the edge and the other side of that knife. Thing with DaoVua, they may not be grinding straight very much, but their blades are very thin to start with, and they grind them all kind of crazier thinner - and yes, wrong - closing to the edge. That kind of a BIG low spot there after like 5-10 minutes actual grinding of the one right side shown? You have a twisted edge and a wavy primary beveling. 

But of course it's not that... Of course your first time trying to flatten a bevel, you almost did perfect but that blade was a mess. All along the edge and bevel that is, because it's not like the covered spots are anywhere consistent or done right or that the edge would carry such "bright spots" makes sense after you showing us sharpening work on both sides that made much more sense and didn't carry such "bright spots" along the edge bevel.

I've seen bad knives. A lot. Bad OGs will get surrounded and highlitened with scratch pattern much more readily than that. IF they're not, and that's a big IF, you've got yourself quite a thicker blade to start with that could carry such OG within reason. Or you should be clearly able to see that the blade road or the edge is totally twisted. Which BTW where edge is concerned also doesn't make sense with pictures of sharpening you've shown earlier.

Which, if not a bit of what I said at least, then is plain wrong, almost out of this world angle wobbling. And then again, albeit obvious in your earlier sharpening pictures that you might not get the angle right on both sides, which various explanations were offered that made sense to tell you it's pretty normal that if using one very same angle on both sides of most J-knives, you'll get some more or less obvious difference with resulting edge bevel width. Myself I thought your angle was plain wrong on the right side, because there is different edge bevel width, and then there's what you've shown. But no matter how wrong your left and right angle side were to each other and to the knife at hand, they were consistent. 

To suddenly get less consistent with flattening/polishing, is quite normal. Not the same move, not the same job. Yet, from the consistency you've shown with maintening a same angle on a same side with sharpening, it sure shouldn't ever look like that after 10 minutes grinding a bevel. Not only the supposed "low spot" BUT AT ANY point along the blade road as I see it. 

So... as I said about what I expected out of this... it figures. Yet I'll just mention this: none of my post was aimed to downfire you. The only point of them all is the obvious as what is pointed out here.


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## M1k3 (Jan 19, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> Something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Norton-Abrasives-Crystolon-Combination-Benchstone/dp/B00CQ884UW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2ASLRKR3ECHQE&keywords=Norton+Abrasives+-+St.+Gobain+85450+Crystolon+Coarse%2FFine+Combination+Grit+Benchstone%2C+Premium+Silicon+Carbide+Abrasive%2C+6%22+L+x+2%22+W+x+1%22+H&qid=1642537207&sprefix=norton+abrasives+-+st.+gobain+85450+crystolon+coarse%2Ffine+combination+grit+benchstone%2C+premium+silicon+carbide+abrasive%2C+6+l+x+2+w+x+1+h%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-1











XL Oil Stone


Large Surface American Made Stones For those times when you need a good sharpening stone in a larger size. These aluminum oxide and silicon carbide stones fit the bill, and at a great price too.



www.sharpeningsupplies.com


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 19, 2022)

ModRQC said:


> Mud along the edge... if those are bright spots I don't know what you were doing since anyway you want to put it, the rest of your edge is much more polished, so then these white spots that, as numerous as they are, none of them can't seem to just cover the edge bevel entirely where they are, nor rise above it as they are... are what?
> 
> My red circles weren't for mud, but for obvious insisting with finger pressure where there wasn't at other places. These kind of marks don't appear out of nowhere.
> 
> ...



Below are pictures of both sides of the blade after I finished. All the Sharpie marks are removed and the blade is clean. The left side is far from perfect, but it doesn't have the thin spots like the right side does. There is still problems with me scuffing the kurouchi finish; I think that was from pressing with my fingers too far from the edge? 

On the right side of the blade, you can still see the thin spots (pointed to by red arrows) where the blade was not making contact with the stone. When holding the knife and running my finger along that bevel, I can feel depressions in those spots. This blade is anything but thin, and it's actually pretty chunky behind the edge, so I don't think those spots are caused by pressure on the blade. (Clearly, the scuff marks higher on the blade are from my inconsistency with pressure and angle, but this is my first try at this kind of work, so I can live with that for now.)

Here's the pics:


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## ian (Jan 19, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> Below are pictures of both sides of the blade after I finished. All the Sharpie marks are removed and the blade is clean. The left side is far from perfect, but it doesn't have the thin spots like the right side does. There is still problems with me scuffing the kurouchi finish; I think that was from pressing with my fingers too far from the edge?
> 
> On the right side of the blade, you can still see the thin spots (pointed to by red arrows) where the blade was not making contact with the stone. When holding the knife and running my finger along that bevel, I can feel depressions in those spots. This blade is anything but thin, and it's actually pretty chunky behind the edge, so I don't think those spots are caused by pressure on the blade. (Clearly, the scuff marks higher on the blade are from my inconsistency with pressure and angle, but this is my first try at this kind of work, so I can live with that for now.)
> 
> ...



 keep at it. Given how f’d the grind is, and how straight the transition to kurouchi was, I assume the transition from polished steel to kurouchi is just cosmetic, and there’s no actual ridge (shinogi) there. In that case it’s pretty hard to thin the polished part without touching the kurouchi, especially with such a wonky grind. Yea, probably you can improve your pressure and angle control (we all can) but don’t sweat the spots.


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## M1k3 (Jan 19, 2022)

Here's a little video of them being made. Notice the small wheel used for grinding.


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 19, 2022)

Those are much easier to view photos. That looks a lot like the grind on a cheap Chinese cleaver I got. Since the edge is free of overgrinds now you could leave it as is and consider them grantons, but as it is still "pretty chunky behind the edge" I would get that coarse stone or Cubitron II sandpaper and keep going.


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 20, 2022)

Ok, so I've ordered a coarse Norton Crystolon 8"x3" and now I just have to wait for it to get here. I went with the 8" stone since that is the size of my others and I figure the less variablility I add to this learning process, the better. 

So while I wait, I'm just practicing getting a good edge. It's amazing to me how one day I can hold a pretty consistent angle while sharpening and the next day I feel like I'm wobbling all over. Very weird...


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 20, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> So while I wait, I'm just practicing getting a good edge. It's amazing to me how one day I can hold a pretty consistent angle while sharpening and the next day I feel like I'm wobbling all over. Very weird...



You could try the method shown starting at 5:30 in this OUTDOORS55 video. Don't drag your thumb on the stone, just use it to check spine height before each stroke.


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## M1k3 (Jan 20, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> Ok, so I've ordered a coarse Norton Crystolon 8"x3" and now I just have to wait for it to get here. I went with the 8" stone since that is the size of my others and I figure the less variablility I add to this learning process, the better.
> 
> So while I wait, I'm just practicing getting a good edge. It's amazing to me how one day I can hold a pretty consistent angle while sharpening and the next day I feel like I'm wobbling all over. Very weird...


If you have a "good" and "bad" side, where you say get good results on the right side, not so good results on the left side. Start on the bad side first.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jan 20, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> Ok, so I've ordered a coarse Norton Crystolon 8"x3" and now I just have to wait for it to get here. I went with the 8" stone since that is the size of my others and I figure the less variablility I add to this learning process, the better.
> 
> So while I wait, I'm just practicing getting a good edge. It's amazing to me how one day I can hold a pretty consistent angle while sharpening and the next day I feel like I'm wobbling all over. Very weird...



Relax. If you start putting pressure on yourself you'll start messing up. Some days though, you just don't feel it so don't force it. Call it a day and come back to it when you are feeling it.


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## ian (Jan 20, 2022)

JASinIL2006 said:


> So while I wait, I'm just practicing getting a good edge. It's amazing to me how one day I can hold a pretty consistent angle while sharpening and the next day I feel like I'm wobbling all over. Very weird...



Takes a while to get really consistent. Don't sweat it.



HumbleHomeCook said:


> If you start putting pressure on yourself you'll start messing up.



It's usually ok as long as the pressure is distributed evenly throughout your body. Just don't let it concentrate in specific places.


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 26, 2022)

So, my Norton Crystolon stone came and I spent a good hour or so working on the DaoVua. I made some good progress on the right side of the blade (see first two pics). I have not moved to finer grits, so you can still see lots of scratches from the Norton stone.

I still have some areas of concavity (see red arrows), but I'm getting close. You can some some scratches in the largest one (#1), near the heel, which I think means those areas are getting pretty shallow. The areas nearer the tip on the right side are also pretty close to being gone (#2 in the first photo, and the areas marked by red arrows in second photo). 










I'm not sure if I'll try to complete remove these highlighted areas. The blade already feels quite a bit thinner behind the edge. I may just clean up these areas and then do a full progression and see how it cuts. 

Progress on the left side next...


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## JASinIL2006 (Jan 26, 2022)

The left side... The left side is very different from the right, but it's looking/feeling pretty good (see first photo). This side also saw some time on the Norton stone. On the left, there is a concave section right below the shinogi that runs the most of the length of the blade (see area circled in red in second photo). When trying to thin this side, I've been unable to get this part of the blade to make contact with the stones. I'm not very worried about that, as this side has a much more consistent grind along the edge. I'm mainly trying to keep things fairly even so the apex remains in the center of the blade as I take material off the other side. 











At some point, I'm going to have to figure out what to do with the kurouchi finish that I've messed up. For now, I'm pretty happy with how this is going.


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## M1k3 (Jan 26, 2022)

The concave parts look shallow enough to hopefully not be a problem in the future 

Sandpaper or rubbing loose stone mud is an easy way to make an even finish.


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