# anyone try iyoto stone?



## panda (Dec 30, 2013)

they're available from 330mate but i can't interpret much useful information from their listing.

still in search of a fast cutting jnat near 1k grit.


----------



## Asteger (Dec 30, 2013)

I've got the one that was recently up on JNS. It's nice and big and clean, if a bit narrower than I'd like, but I've barely tried it so far. First impressions were that it was quite close to my Ikarashi also from JNS, but I haven't done a side-by-side comparison. (Can, in the future, if you'd like...)

I'm a big fan of the Ikarashi, by the way. Aren't you currently trialling Vinster's? If that one hasn't impressed you, then lower med naturals might not be your cup of tea. Generally, a natural's not going to be as fast as a synthetic as everyone will say. However, I hear that hard black Saeki can really do the job. There was one on JNS for ages, which finally sold this month. 

Actually, there are other non-finisher stones out there that we never hear of. Let us know if you dig up anything more.


----------



## icanhaschzbrgr (Dec 30, 2013)

and it would be nice if anyone explain to jnat noobs like me, why would you want to use slower medium grit jnat instead of synthetic stone? Does it leaves better finish? Other reasons?


----------



## Asteger (Dec 30, 2013)

Basically because of their feel and because there's a lot more too them. Not to overdo it, but they've all got a bit of personality and even maybe some history too. There are also more technical differences with edges, etc, but maybe someone else can cover that...

Oh, and another point is: why is fast always better?

... Sure, many people have time pressures if you work in a pro-kitchen even more so, but if you're investing in your equipment and you enjoy using what you have then surely speed wouldn't be your #1 concern. Perhaps the opposite.


----------



## tagheuer (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks Asteger for info on Iyoto stone. 

I thought of getting one, but I think I have enough med grit natural stones.


----------



## Asteger (Dec 30, 2013)

tagheuer said:


> Thanks Asteger for info on Iyoto stone. I thought of getting one, but I think I have enough med grit natural stones.



You mean an Iyoto too? Well, they're not that common anyway.

Don't know if anyone has any thoughts on this, but for me I'm increasingly interested in medium naturals. Yes, the prestige and the high prices tend to be with awasedo or finishers, and - it's probably fair to say - more money is made off of them too, but I'm thinking that mediums are often where's it's at: in a practical sense, when it comes to actually using the knife after. Not really a revelation, but it kind of goes against what we're being sold. Awasedo if I want a knife to look polished, kasumi-ed and good - but mediums aren't that far off and they can perform very well or better. (I tend to use knives on vegetables, and don't own anything like yanagiba honyaki by the way which of course I'd want to put the finest edge on.)

Anyway, to get back to Panda, it would be good if more attention were given to med naturals.


----------



## ChuckTheButcher (Dec 30, 2013)

I have not used one but be very careful buying jnats from 330mate. I have gotten a couple and was very disappointed. I have heard a lot of them are scraps. Don't know if that part is true though. A lower grit stone might be fine but I would suggest not buying any "high end" finishing stones.


----------



## panda (Dec 30, 2013)

yes, iyoto/ikarashi comparison would be cool.

i like the ikarashi just fine, but the beveled faces are really annoying as it gets in the way of sharpening and vastly reduces the surface area.

don't like polished edges so i have no interest in fine stones.
currently trying to find a coarse aoto which could be a nice progression since ive got a medium aoto that i adore.

chuck - tell us about the black saeki.

why use naturals:
i already find sharpening a chore and not enjoyable, so sharpening with synthetics is not a task i look forward to. naturals make that less of a nuisance because they don't make you feel like you're dragging the feet of heavy furniture across pavement. plus they're truely splash n go.

also the edges are different from jnats in a way you can't really ascertain from description rather you have to feel it in use. my guess is naturals have a more variable scratch pattern vs the single uniform scratches that synthetics leave.


----------



## tagheuer (Dec 30, 2013)

Asteger said:


> You mean an Iyoto too?



Yeah, I was interested in the Iyoto too.



Asteger said:


> Well, they're not that common anyway.



You never know what Maksim can pull out of his rabbit hat 



Asteger said:


> Don't know if anyone has any thoughts on this, but for me I'm increasingly interested in medium naturals. Yes, the prestige and the high prices tend to be with awasedo or finishers, and - it's probably fair to say - more money is made off of them too, but I'm thinking that mediums are often where's it's at: in a practical sense, when it comes to actually using the knife after. Not really a revelation, but it kind of goes against what we're being sold. Awasedo if I want a knife to look polished, kasumi-ed and good - but mediums aren't that far off and they can perform very well or better. (I tend to use knives on vegetables, and don't own anything like yanagiba honyaki by the way which of course I'd want to put the finest edge on.)



I'm with you on this. 



Asteger said:


> Anyway, to get back to Panda, it would be good if more attention were given to med naturals.



Sorry OP for slight distraction on the topic. I'd better :running: now...


----------



## ChuckTheButcher (Dec 30, 2013)

I like the saeki. It is not the fastest stone but has great feel and leaves a really nice edge. The first time I used it I didn't think it was doing much. Then I tried a push cut test and it went right through the paper. I've never used a stone quite like it. I am always on the hunt for a great medium grit jnat. On why use medium jnats instead of synthetics? One of the reasons is for the finish it puts on single and wide bevel knives that you tend to not get from synthetics. Although Dave swears by the king 800. Another big reason for me is that I like the thought of using all natural stones. It's kind of pointless but I like the idea that I get a beautiful finish and screaming edge all for plain old rocks.


----------



## Asteger (Dec 30, 2013)

panda said:


> yes, iyoto/ikarashi comparison would be cool. i like the ikarashi just fine, but the beveled faces are really annoying as it gets in the way of sharpening and vastly reduces the surface area.



Well, _coincidentally_ I just had a quick comparison. These are just for the two I own of course, no two stones being identical:

appearance - My Iyoto is bigger but narrower; Ikarashi gets that kind of slightly luminescent aqua glow about it when wet, whereas my Iyoto is white with salt&pepper style specks on it that look very much like my cheap kitchen countertop; I think there's an old review of an Iyoto on here and that stone looks completely different to mine. 

feel - Both are quite hard but feel uniform and smooth when sharpening; the Ikarashi offers slightly better feedback and is maybe slightly smoother

sharpening - The Iyoto is slightly coarser and feels a tiny bit grittier but still is uniform and smooth; both are a similar speed (good, fast) and give off a nicely manageable slurry, not too much or too little, and don't dry up when sharpening; no need to use slurry stone with either too, though you can if you want; overall I guess if you're worried about speed the Iyoto is probably a bit more agressive and quick and probably a good one to have around to restore a dulled but not damaged edge in one go

finish/edge - The Ikarashi can leave a nice looking finish with fine stratch patterns and the Iyoto leavers a stratchier finish; I don't know about the edge as I went on to use a finer stone after, would guess thout that the Iyoto leave a very toothy edge, which could be useful if you needed that


----------



## Asteger (Dec 30, 2013)

ChuckTheButcher said:


> ... Another big reason for me is that I like the thought of using all natural stones. It's kind of pointless but I like the idea that I get a beautiful finish and screaming edge all for plain old rocks.



Plain old rocks?? Not as plain as synthetics to me, which are just man-made, with any one identical to all the others of its type. These old rocks have a bit of personality and reflect something about where they're from, they're natural and less predictable, and in comparison I think synthetics are a bit dull.


----------



## JDA_NC (Dec 30, 2013)

Asteger said:


> You mean an Iyoto too? Well, they're not that common anyway.
> 
> Don't know if anyone has any thoughts on this, but for me I'm increasingly interested in medium naturals. Yes, the prestige and the high prices tend to be with awasedo or finishers, and - it's probably fair to say - more money is made off of them too, but I'm thinking that mediums are often where's it's at: in a practical sense, when it comes to actually using the knife after. Not really a revelation, but it kind of goes against what we're being sold. Awasedo if I want a knife to look polished, kasumi-ed and good - but mediums aren't that far off and they can perform very well or better. (I tend to use knives on vegetables, and don't own anything like yanagiba honyaki by the way which of course I'd want to put the finest edge on.)
> 
> Anyway, to get back to Panda, it would be good if more attention were given to med naturals.



Definitely. I don't think you're alone on this.

To clarify though - from my perspective, which for sure ain't the most well informed - medium naturals are in the Aoto stone realm (which appear to be completely mined out and very rare to find these days).

To compare with synthetic stones and grit ratings, which I know is inaccurate and a poor gauge, but something we can all relate to:

Coarse naturals (binsui, aizu, ikarashi, iyoto etc) are more in the 1k to 2k grit realm and like what we consider medium synthetics

and 

Medium naturals being around 3k to 8k realm. What most of us here consider to be the most practical 'finishing' grit for double bevel edges.

I would love to hear from posters their experiences with stones that they felt left a toothy, durable 'final' edge for double bevels


----------

