# which whetstones should i buy to sharpen my carter 240 gyuto?



## stevenn21 (Oct 14, 2013)

which whetstones should i buy to sharpen my carter 240 gyuto?
im buying this knife:






Length: 241mm
Width: 55mm
Thickness: 2mm
Weight: 219g
Handle is Cocobolo, Ironwood and Ebony

Price $796.88 

but i dont know which whetstones to buy. I live in the uk so would like to buy here to save on shipping and import duty

i am new to whetstones and would like some suggestions on which to buy

a, are cheap stones as effective as expensive ones?
b, what grit? i have a 400/1000 combo at the moment

i know people say learn to sharpen on a cheap knife at first and i have some i can practice on.
to put things into perspective:
i own a boker straight razor and was unable to get that sharp on a norton 4000/8000 (i dont have the norton anymore)
so im useless at the moment at sharpening:sad0:

any suggestions on stones and grits?


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## rdm_magic (Oct 14, 2013)

Do you sharpen the straight razor on something else now? Whats the budget for the stones? 
To be honest, it seems kind of silly to me to be spending +£500 on a knife, when you aren't able to sharpen at all yet, but thats just me..


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## Mucho Bocho (Oct 14, 2013)

Steven, Welcome but RDM makes a good point. $800 on a single knife. :bigeek:


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## toddnmd (Oct 14, 2013)

Definitely get a less expensive knife for practice.

Jon Broida at Japanese Knife Imports has some good sharpening videos on youtube. Murray has sharpening techniques available for a reasonable cost for streaming (haven't seen these specifically, but on some other videos he seems like a good teacher). If you want to get the most out of your investment, you'll want to keep it sharp.


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 14, 2013)

I'll say awesome knife and congrats on the purchase! I really like my Carter 240 and it takes a very nice edge. 
I was using Naniwa stones before I bought the 3 stone set from Dave Martell. These stones get me exactly what I want out of all my knives this far. There are some really excellent stones out the and the 3 are just some of them. Check em out

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7033-Dave-Martell-s-Core-Set-of-Sharpening-Stones


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## daveb (Oct 14, 2013)

There used to be a discount coupon(?) that would make it a mere 600 and change. 

Suggest contact Maxim at JNS for specific stone advice. He'll have what you need at your door before you hang up. JCK also has good rep for European shipping.


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## Anton (Oct 14, 2013)

I would get a <$250 carbon kitchen knife to practice on first 
Then post a "WTB a Carter" thread, likely to find a nice example for lots less


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## NO ChoP! (Oct 14, 2013)

Pretty sure Carter himself uses, sells and suggests King stones. Can't get much more affordable, and his ootb edge is the best in the biz.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 14, 2013)

stevenn21 said:


> which whetstones should i buy to sharpen my carter 240 gyuto?
> im buying this knife:
> 
> 
> ...



Beautiful knife Steven.Since you have such a fine blade recomm. getting your freehand skills up to snuff.The Martell stones with DVD you cannot lose.Esp. for beginning sharpeners in English language covers alot of ground in the DVD set.

AS mentioned Jon Broida-knifesharpingplaylist-is another excellent freehand tutoral.Since you got a Carter you can check out some of his videos.You are in good company with all of these guys.

Practice on your cheaper knives first & check your bevels,sharpness etc.I don't think you need to use a coarse stone on the Carter a good medium stone like the 1200 Bester is a good place to start.And do not put it to the stones until you feel comfortable with your tech.


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## stevenn21 (Oct 14, 2013)

i have some ziganof knives to practice on
they came with a 400/1000 stone:eyebrow:









they cost alot but i think i made a bad choice my friend has some and swears by them they were expensive cost me £350 for a cleaver and a 3 peice set they are a lot more expensive on the website i got them at a trade fair in my local area there were two well known tv chefs promoting them (they were at the fair)
i got quite a lot of stick from the members of another knife forum for buying these but you learn from your mistakes thats why im buying a carter:lol2:


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## TB_London (Oct 14, 2013)

Nice Carter, big fan of mine, they're cutting machines.

A king 1k/6k would be a good starting point, lots of places in the UK.

Different stones have different feedback and cut at different speeds, so personal preference comes into play.

Where in the uk are you, there may be a member nearby who could show you the ropes.

Eu sources for stones are Eden webshops, dieter Schmidt, dictum and jns in no particular order.


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## TB_London (Oct 14, 2013)

> Made from Damascus steel, these chefs knives have been crafted to the same exacting standards that were used to create the Samurai swords of old. Each knife takes up to two days to manufacture and is sharpened for the first time for over 10 hours by a blade expert.



Haha, sorry had to post Ziganof's spiel, 10 hours of sharpening per knife?!?!?!
They must have left the production line in a sorry state.


Also wondering why, with the recommendations you've asked for over the past 2 years, you ended up with those knives?


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## El Pescador (Oct 14, 2013)

Watch Carters sharpening videos and you should be able to use a concrete cinder block and a grocery bag. (joke)


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## bkdc (Oct 14, 2013)

I'd just strop that thing all day as psychotherapy and stress reduction.  No stones. Hahaha.


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## stevenStefano (Oct 15, 2013)

Yeah I'd just get a King 1/6k until you're more proficient at sharpening then upgrade. I'd say yes more expensive stones are better but if you're starting off the King ones should do fine


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## Brad Gibson (Oct 15, 2013)

looks like that carter has a high spot near the heel.... 800 bucks is pretty insane for that kind of stuff


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 15, 2013)

Looking at the profile of that Ziganof gyuto it looks an awful lot like an 8' Zhen "damascus" gyuto.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 15, 2013)

They remind me of shuns.big production promotion VG-10 core damascus.And overpriced for what they are.Like shun carry their own combo stone.Alot of hype about production.Questionable blade geometry.

They are not junk knives.I find VG-10 pretty easy to sharpen & you can get a fine edge.Good knives to practice on.I am sure you can find good use for that cleaver.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 15, 2013)

Brad Gibson said:


> looks like that carter has a high spot near the heel.... 800 bucks is pretty insane for that kind of stuff



Doesn't look that way to me, but you can't tell much from a photo, can you?

To the OP: Enjoy your Carter! They are among the best knives out there and worth every penny.

Rick


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## Lefty (Oct 15, 2013)

Start with the King Stones if budget is of importance. Otherwise, contact Jon or Maksim (Maksim might be better for you, since you're in UK). 

And as far as your knife choice goes - I guarantee you're going to love the Carter. It's a great looking knife, and Murray knows a thing or two about making a knife that performs. Congrats on the new knife.


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## Brad Gibson (Oct 15, 2013)

i am not trying to bag on carter obviously. i love my carter sujihiki. but this one looks like a strange high spot in the heel area from the photo. only problem i have with my carter is I have to sharpen it religiously. it doesnt hold an edge very well. I have two of the H stamped carter blades. they get insanely sharp and i take them to around 6000, but they fade very fast. and need touch ups during service!

congrats on the gyuto!


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## cheezit (Oct 15, 2013)

Diagnosing issues on a knife you haven't held across the internet, based on a Wide-Angle shot? Just speculating or is that a fact, Brad?


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## Brad Gibson (Oct 15, 2013)

Fact. I believe there is an overgrind in the heel of this knife.


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## Benuser (Oct 15, 2013)

The photo suggests the heel area to be a tad thicker and the bevel a little wider. Even if this were real, it has nothing to do with an overgrind.


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## labor of love (Oct 15, 2013)

it appears that the bevel is raised a little at the heel. and sticker price is what it is because people are willing to pay it. i would definitely practice sharpening on something alot cheaper maybe a tojiro shirogami,before attempting to sharpen that carter. maybe you could just purchase a strop and try and maintain the edge that way for a while.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 15, 2013)

Benuser said:


> The photo suggests the heel area to be a tad thicker and the bevel a little wider. Even if this were real, it has nothing to do with an overgrind.



Exactly. Just as the bevel is wider on this heel:


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## daveb (Oct 15, 2013)

Brad Gibson said:


> Fact. I believe...



Too easy.


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## Justin0505 (Oct 15, 2013)

Nice thing about Carter's white #1 is that its very easy to sharpen and you dont have to remive much metal or make many passes. 

You already have a coarse med stone, so IMO all you really need is a nice finisher in the 6-8k range. As others have mentioned, jns is a great so ce if you want to try jnat.

You can get by just stopping on a high grit stone for a long time until youre more confident. 

Also, dont take Brad too seriously.


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## Dave Martell (Oct 15, 2013)

It's very common to see a wide bevel at the heal on the left side of Murray's knives, been noticing this for years. It's not a problem though, it'll sharpen right out, it's just a result of the way Murray sharpens is all.


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## Lefty (Oct 15, 2013)

Dave, that's actually pretty cool. It's almost like how you can tell a person's writing (someone commented on how I do my A's) just by looking at it. We're all human and our own little nuances can be found all over what we do. 

Oh, and again - Murray's knives are ridiculous performers (not to mention, I really like the handle on the one the OP got).


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## stevenn21 (Oct 22, 2013)

TB_London said:


> Haha, sorry had to post Ziganof's spiel, 10 hours of sharpening per knife?!?!?!
> They must have left the production line in a sorry state.
> 
> 
> Also wondering why, with the recommendations you've asked for over the past 2 years, you ended up with those knives?



they were the first knives i bought on an impulse they looked alright at the time this was before i saw there site. i have realised that they are not as good as they say and for that price the funny thing is my friend is in denial and defends the knives on a regulaur basis when i mock them


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## stevenn21 (Oct 22, 2013)

thanks for all the advice guys you have all been great i forgot about this thread until now (sorry):O i actually bought this stone

Toishi-Ohishi - Combination Stone 6000/10000: J-TO6010 £82.50 from here:

http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Toishi-Japanese-Waterstones.html

it came through the post ive received it now the 10,000 side is about a third of the stone and the 6,000 is about 2 thirds i guess this is because you would use the 10,000 less than the 6,000
any comments on the stone? 
i will post some pics when i find my camera phone also i will post some more pics of the carter when i receive it


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 22, 2013)

stevenn21 said:


> any comments on the stone?



to quote the maker of your knife....



Murray Carter said:


> It's 99% technique, 1% the tools


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## TB_London (Oct 22, 2013)

No experience of the stone, but 6k and 10k wouldn't have been the grits I'd have gone for. Let us know how you get on


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## Timthebeaver (Oct 22, 2013)

I guess he's already got a 400/1000.

I'm of the school of 10k is way too fine for a gyuto, so I'm probably not well placed to comment, haha


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## stevenn21 (Oct 22, 2013)

Timthebeaver said:


> I guess he's already got a 400/1000.
> 
> I'm of the school of 10k is way too fine for a gyuto, so I'm probably not well placed to comment, haha



yes ive already got the 400/1000 the 10k is just to give me a easier learners curve plus i have a cut throat razor to sharpen too so it wont go to waste


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