# I need to vent.



## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

So some have you have likely seen me around, and likely have seen me mention I sharpen knives on the weekends for cash. 

What has me so resentful right now is an incident that happened what could have been at least a month ago, maybe longer. 

So I was sharpening a customers knife, when another potential customer comes up and hands me a knife to sharpen. (He was latino, maybe 65 years old) I set his knife down, and am about to continue sharpening the knife I'm currently working on, when he suddenly grabs the knife I'm working on and starts doing what I think, he thinks is feeling if its sharp. So i say, "I'm still working on that one", and hand him one of my personal knives that, if I may say so, was fairly sharp. Then he starts to try feeling the edge the same way he was before with that one. All never having said a word to me, from the beginning. 

The thing is, he wasn't feeling the edge he was rubbing it the way you do when you check for a burr. This guy had no clue what he was supposed to be doing. When he obviously didn't feel something, I guess he thought it meant it wasn't sharp, when in reality it was a well polished, stropped, edge with no burr for him to feel. So again with out saying anything to me, he grabs his knife back. Which by the way might as well have been a freaking butter knife the edge was so rounded. Then walks off. 

I really wish I didn't just blow it off at the time. I wish I would have said something. Or showed him how to ****ing actually feel an edge, maybe while shouting "hey idiot, this is how you feel an edge!". Or maybe stopped sharpening the one I was working on and shaved my arm with the one he felt right in front of him, and said " you wouldn't know a sharp knife if someone stabbed you in the hand". 

God, idk why this bothers me so much. Maybe because I dont know anyone I can vent to about this to in person. That knows anything about sharpening or knives in general. Maybe it wouldn't bother me so much if the knife he had didn't look like it had never been sharpened in anyway, and hadn't been completely rounded on the edge. 

Idk. **** that guy.


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## tostadas (Mar 18, 2021)

F that guy. He's not worth the energy spent to think about it. If you have to dedicate any brain power to it, just consider how consistently lovely and neat his "sliced/diced" tomatoes must be without your services.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

tostadas said:


> F that guy. He's not worth the energy spent to think about it. If you have to dedicate any brain power to it, just consider how consistently lovely and neat his "sliced/diced" tomatoes must be without your services.


Yeah. It kinda helped writing this out. I know I shouldn't let that rent space in my head, but sometimes it's hard to let things go. It's not like I'm always thinking about this, but every once in a while I'll remember it, and think **** that guy.


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## Moooza (Mar 18, 2021)

You dodged a bullet mate. He would have been a pain no matter what happened.


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## ian (Mar 18, 2021)

Sounds like a guy with some issues that are unrelated to you.


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## Midsummer (Mar 18, 2021)

With so much potential stress (there are tons of difficult people out there), I hope you get great satisfaction or riches from your sharpening. 

Some will be appreciative; but if they pay for the service they will rightfully feel that they owe you nothing more than what you charged.

Most people do not know how to sharpen and have not bought sharpening supplies so they are unaware of the effort and investment it represents.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

Midsummer said:


> With so much potential stress (there are tons of difficult people out there), I hope you get great satisfaction or riches from your sharpening.
> 
> Some will be appreciative; but if they pay for the service they will rightfully feel that they owe you nothing more than what you charged.
> 
> Most people do not know how to sharpen and have not bought sharpening supplies so they are unaware of the effort and investment it represents.


The only people that have not been completely satisfied, that have paid for my services, are ones that have knives similar too if not identical to this one 

With those if I feel I literally cannot get a good edge, I will straight up offer their money back. Usually it will be knives made with these Damascus that are likely not heat treated at all. It makes getting a hair shaving sharp edge surprisingly difficult.


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## lemeneid (Mar 18, 2021)

Sorry you had to go through that. I too sharpen knives a little for some side cash, so I don't let it get to me as its just a hobby. I sharpen privately in my own home, but I guess you do it in a stall in public? If so, it could have been an opportunity for a little customer interaction and education, something you missed. I know once you're in the groove to sharpen, its hard to get back the momentum, but I would never pass up an opportunity to interact with a customer. If you had talked to him and got a little casual conversation going on, the outcome could have been different.

As for customers who send in dollar store knives, I do tell them upfront they will never get sharp. I don't waste time on those, but if they insist on sharpening them, I just go through 100 grit > 400 grit > 1000 grit, all in 5-10 mins. It won't cut paper, but it sure as hell will be sharper than 99% of dollar store knives and most definitely sufficient for most kitchen tasks, even though it will never cut better than a wusthof.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

lemeneid said:


> Sorry you had to go through that. I too sharpen knives a little for some side cash, so I don't let it get to me as its just a hobby. I sharpen privately in my own home, but I guess you do it in a stall in public? If so, it could have been an opportunity for a little customer interaction and education, something you missed. I know once you're in the groove to sharpen, its hard to get back the momentum, but I would never pass up an opportunity to interact with a customer. If you had talked to him and got a little casual conversation going on, the outcome could have been different.
> 
> As for customers who send in dollar store knives, I do tell them upfront they will never get sharp. I don't waste time on those, but if they insist on sharpening them, I just go through 100 grit > 400 grit > 1000 grit, all in 5-10 mins. It won't cut paper, but it sure as hell will be sharper than 99% of dollar store knives and most definitely sufficient for most kitchen tasks, even though it will never cut better than a wusthof.


The guy didn't really say anything to me. I'm not sure if he didn't speak english, or what. I do sharpen at a little table I set up in front of a knife shop (the kind that sells pocket knives, swords, nunchucks, etc.) I will usually try to educate as well. Mostly I will go over what my process is from burr to burr removal, and polishing. All that.


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## gregfisk (Mar 18, 2021)

There are some people who it’s better to just not deal with. He would have been unhappy no matter what. I completely understand that this interaction is bothering you. I ran my own business for 35 years before retiring and I had this type of customer on occasion. The reason it probably bothers you so much is because you care. That says a lot about you. He’s just a dick and it has nothing to do with you. He isn’t worth your caring thoughts.


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## Keith Sinclair (Mar 18, 2021)

What a older Latino that doesn't know how to sharpen a knife


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Mar 18, 2021)

In the future you will look back on some of these interactions and just laugh. 

I've run a welding business for over 40 years. My favorite quip from a customer as I was writing out an invoice and apparently his way of letting me know that he thought I was charging too much.

"There used to be a guy in town who did welding real cheap"... wait for it... "but he went out of business"!!!!

I howl every time I think about that one.


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## daveb (Mar 18, 2021)

VICTOR J CREAZZI said:


> In the future you will look back on some of these interactions and just laugh.
> 
> I've run a welding business for over 40 years. My favorite quip from a customer as I was writing out an invoice and apparently his way of letting me know that he thought I was charging too much.
> 
> ...



You can have it: a) Cheap b) Good c) Fast

Pick two.


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## DavidPF (Mar 18, 2021)

People pay you to sharpen knives.

If all of the people were as difficult as he was, you'd have to charge a lot more. You charge what you do because - on average - you're paid enough. Sometimes you get an easy customer with easy knives, sometimes not so easy, but in the end it's close enough.

Someone like him throws your "average customer" off so badly that it ruins the _entire_ job. Not just the bit while he's there, but all of it. With people like him in the mix, it's not even worth showing up for work. So don't accept him, send him away if necessary.

If this was happening to you every day with a lot of different customers, then it would be your fault, either for choosing a really bad place to set up, or because you were the one with the problem. But that's not the case. You didn't do anything wrong, you just met that rare person who is really bad to have around.

What he did, and what you did, in the few minutes/seconds he was there, doesn't really matter, as long as nobody got hurt and nothing was broken or stolen. What matters is he's not there anymore and isn't coming back.

Bright side: you didn't waste any work time on him.


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 18, 2021)

I can't get over he would pickup someone else's knife without asking. What if he had dropped it and tipped the end or worse. Or if he cut himself would you be liable for the injury. Crazy.


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## captaincaed (Mar 18, 2021)

Yeah the liability thing made my @ss pucker up as soon as I started reading. 

Yeah any rebuke of your work can haunt you even when you KNOW the other person is living in Mars. Critique from someone who knows what they're talking about stings less for some reason I can't explain. 

Last, I don't want to make a big thing of it, but I was curious if the fact he was an older Latino man figured into the encounter?


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

VICTOR J CREAZZI said:


> In the future you will look back on some of these interactions and just laugh.
> 
> I've run a welding business for over 40 years. My favorite quip from a customer as I was writing out an invoice and apparently his way of letting me know that he thought I was charging too much.
> 
> ...


Yeah, some people act like the 5 dollars I ask for is some exorbitant amount (before they give me there stuff to sharpen).


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> I can't get over he would pickup someone else's knife without asking. What if he had dropped it and tipped the end or worse. Or if he cut himself would you be liable for the injury. Crazy.


I know. He didn't actually pick up it though. He grabbed it while it was in my hand, and started feeling the edge while I was obviously still sharpening it. So it never left my hand, but he was kinda groping itm Which, for some reason, was, at least in my eyes even ruder/weirder. I suppose I would rather him do what he did than potentially mess up another customers knife though.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> Last, I don't want to make a big thing of it, but I was curious if the fact he was an older Latino man figured into the encounter?


Because I wasn't sure if he spoke english, because he never said anything. Which I feel like fits into the story, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 18, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I know. He didn't actually pick up it though. He grabbed it while it was in my hand, and started feeling the edge while I was obviously still sharpening it. So it never left my hand, but he was kinda groping itm Which, for some reason, was, at least in my eyes even ruder/weirder. I suppose I would rather him do what he did than potentially mess up another customers knife though.


And when Covid restrictions are in effect, makes it triply concerning. No wonder cases are growing......


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## McMan (Mar 18, 2021)

If you're dealing with people and providing a service, you'll get some combination of:

(1) nice people
(2) appreciative people (because they know what's up)
(3) appreciative people (because your service surpasses their expectations)
(4) people who want to learn more

(5) people with unrealistic expectations that are impossible to meet
(6) people with more assertiveness than knowledge
(7) not nice people

Cultivating relationships with 1-4 helps. Lets you get to know nice folks, share your knowledge, and earn repeat business and word of mouth.
Nothing you can do about 5-7. Zero. 
Better to think about the people who appreciate your work and whose cutting is more enjoyable because of it. These are the people you want on your side going forward anyhow


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

McMan said:


> If you're dealing with people and providing a service, you'll get some combination of:
> 
> (1) nice people
> (2) appreciative people (because they know what's up)
> ...


Yeah. Thankfully, I do see 1-4 regularly. It's what keeps me going. A guy like this one, isn't very common. I feel like its human nature, or at least the way I'm wired. To skip over the whole group of positive interactions, to obsess on the one that went badly.

You're right though, I should be more worried about the repeat customers I get, and the good word of mouth that has fortunately been happening since I started doing this gig.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> Yeah any rebuke of your work can haunt you even when you KNOW the other person is living in Mars. Critique from someone who knows what they're talking about stings less for some reason I can't explain.



There definitely is something to this.


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## DavidPF (Mar 18, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> Yeah any rebuke of your work can haunt you even when you KNOW the other person is living in Mars. Critique from someone who knows what they're talking about stings less for some reason I can't explain.





jwthaparc said:


> There definitely is something to this.


You guys are right - I thought it was just me who felt that way.

Maybe it's the fact that criticism from people who clearly know nothing (but think they do) benefits only their ego, but when it's from a knowledgeable person it can benefit me.

I think when a person is knowledgeable but is criticizing just to pump up their ego, it might not feel that much different compared to when it's from someone who knows nothing. Criticism that's sincere and focused on work, not an ego thing, is much less of a problem to me - even if it's stated kind of harshly.

I guess that's my new opinion - ego-crazed people seem like way more of a problem than honest critics.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 18, 2021)

Texas right? Didn't think these things happen with guns so big there. Everyone carries, I'd be afraid to piss the wrong person off.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Texas right? Didn't think these things happen with guns so big there. Everyone carries, I'd be afraid to piss the wrong person off.


I mean stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason I suppose. I personally am not a big gun guy, or a gun person at all for that matter. As far as knives go, I just look at them as tools. I'm sure there's no more risk of something happening here than up north.


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## juice (Mar 18, 2021)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Texas right? Didn't think these things happen with guns so big there. Everyone carries, I'd be afraid to piss the wrong person off.


Civilisation could still happen, but it won't be soon.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

juice said:


> Civilisation could still happen, but it won't be soon.


What does that mean?


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## Wagnum (Mar 18, 2021)

Someone that old wouldn't have Listened to you anyway good on you for not telling home to f**k off. Gotta love when people act like they know what they are doing and clearly don't have a clue. Sharpening is big one, I remember a ex co-worker showing me how to sharpen knives. I had some old stone from the hardware store and he was taking it in one hand and the knife if the other and smacking them together like a maniac while explaining what he was doing. At the time I knew nothing about sharpening but I was certain that whatever this guy was doing was horribly wrong. The knife did at least get a little sharper


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## DavidPF (Mar 18, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> What does that mean?


It means that always being afraid of pissing off the wrong guy because you could end up dead is a hell of a way to have to live, more like a battlefield than a country.


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## Delat (Mar 18, 2021)

I think it’s very natural to get upset when someone mistakenly believes something negative about you, and the misunderstanding happens via a direct interaction with no opportunity to correct the false impression. This happens to me every once in a while, and always leaves me upset for days. 

I think this is what’s really at the root of your upset over the situation, not necessarily the weirdness/rudeness of him not speaking or grabbing your knives. If you had silently done something like sliced some paper, and he smiled and nodded and gave you $5 and his knife, it would’ve been a happy story despite all the other stuff. 

At the end of the day there’s not much you can do to feel better about it but vent to an understanding audience, and this is a great place for it.


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## Doug (Mar 18, 2021)

Unhappy people are the most sharing people in the world. There's no need to accept what they offer.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Mar 18, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> It means that always being afraid of pissing off the wrong guy because you could end up dead is a hell of a way to have to live, more like a battlefield than a country.


That may be what he means, but not quite accurate. I meant one should always act civilized and polite, not like a buffoon with no bearings.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 18, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> It means that always being afraid of pissing off the wrong guy because you could end up dead is a hell of a way to have to live, more like a battlefield than a country.


I feel sorry for anyone that lives like that.

I just try not to be an ******* (edit: maybe anal orifice is more appropriate for the forum)to people when I can because I feel like it's the right thing to do. Not out of fear of what might happen to me.


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## GeneH (Mar 18, 2021)

two pages worth of responses today. You should be feeling better by now. Just skimming the responses I totally agree that you dodged a bullet. customer from hell. I would put up a sign that asked people not to pick up the knives. That was bullet number one. He didn’t cut himself that was bullet number two. And you didn’t waste any time working on his knife which he would not have been satisfied with anyway. Bullet number three. You win.


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## ecchef (Mar 19, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> What does that mean?


Nothing worth thinking about.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 19, 2021)

GeneH said:


> two pages worth of responses today. You should be feeling better by now. Just skimming the responses I totally agree that you dodged a bullet. customer from hell. I would put up a sign that asked people not to pick up the knives. That was bullet number one. He didn’t cut himself that was bullet number two. And you didn’t waste any time working on his knife which he would not have been satisfied with anyway. Bullet number three. You win.


Yeah I do feel much better. It seems everytime I NEED to get to sleep (I had to get up a 530 for work), my mind just goes,"hey remember when this one thing happened", or I remember when I did something stupid/embarrassing.


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## cotedupy (Apr 7, 2021)

Ah what a tit!

If it makes you feel any better - I get this all the time with people rubbing their thumbs over an edge side to side, whilst looking pensive and pretending to know what they're doing. And yes... I don't say anything either.


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## big_adventure (Apr 7, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Yeah I do feel much better. It seems everytime I NEED to get to sleep (I had to get up a 530 for work), my mind just goes,"hey remember when this one thing happened", or I remember when I did something stupid/embarrassing.



Having done certainly hundreds and likely thousands of stupid and embarrassing things in my life, I feel what you are saying there.


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## jwthaparc (Apr 12, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Ah what a tit!
> 
> If it makes you feel any better - I get this all the time with people rubbing their thumbs over an edge side to side, whilst looking pensive and pretending to know what they're doing. And yes... I don't say anything either.


Yeah. Most of the time I dont say anything. Especially if it's someone much older than me. I've started showing some people the murray Carter 3 finger edge test when I see them trying to feel the edge the wrong way. Usually I gauge the situation if I'm going to do that though.


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## big_adventure (Apr 12, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Yeah. Most of the time I dont say anything. Especially if it's someone much older than me. I've started showing some people the murray Carter 3 finger edge test when I see them trying to feel the edge the wrong way. Usually I gauge the situation if I'm going to do that though.



Good plan - you don't want to have to clean bloody fingertips off of your work area.


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## jwthaparc (Apr 12, 2021)

big_adventure said:


> Good plan - you don't want to have to clean bloody fingertips off of your work area.


Yeah just my own fingertips. Yesterday I was using sandpaper to do some rough work on a chisel. I had on hand holding it in place, and I literally shaved the fingertip off my middle finger on my left hand with the chisel. Did not feel good. Thankfully I had bandaids, acetaminophen, and ibuprofen on me. So I could get back to work.


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## big_adventure (Apr 12, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Yeah just my own fingertips. Yesterday I was using sandpaper to do some rough work on a chisel. I had on hand holding it in place, and I literally shaved the fingertip off my middle finger on my left hand with the chisel. Did not feel good. Thankfully I had bandaids, acetaminophen, and ibuprofen on me. So I could get back to work.



I was washing a blindingly sharp Hinoura 240 gyuto today when I turned to talk to my girlfriend. The brand-new sponge slipped and I sliced deeply into my left middle finger. I now am 50/50 on whether I need to go to the hospital. I stopped the bleeding with pressure, drowned it in surgical betadine, pressure wrapped it, and I tested all directions and don't feel pain or weakness in ligaments or tendons, but I'm relatively sure I cut deep into the dermis. So - nasty scar or stitches tomorrow. One or the other.


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## cotedupy (Apr 12, 2021)

There must be some kind of excellent battle-wound thread somewhere? And if not - one should definitely be started!

I've got a kinda weird calloused gauge at the knuckle of my left thumb from running it hard into a 40 grit sanding belt on numerous occasions. That's pretty painful too :/


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## jwthaparc (Apr 12, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> There must be some kind of excellent battle-wound thread somewhere? And if not - one should definitely be started!
> 
> I've got a kinda weird calloused gauge at the knuckle of my left thumb from running it hard into a 40 grit sanding belt on numerous occasions. That's pretty painful too :/
> 
> View attachment 122414


Yeah someone should while I still have my finger messed up. So at least something would come of it.


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## jwthaparc (Apr 12, 2021)

big_adventure said:


> I was washing a blindingly sharp Hinoura 240 gyuto today when I turned to talk to my girlfriend. The brand-new sponge slipped and I sliced deeply into my left middle finger. I now am 50/50 on whether I need to go to the hospital. I stopped the bleeding with pressure, drowned it in surgical betadine, pressure wrapped it, and I tested all directions and don't feel pain or weakness in ligaments or tendons, but I'm relatively sure I cut deep into the dermis. So - nasty scar or stitches tomorrow. One or the other.


Oh man I had a bad one like that on my thumb from a freshly sharpened opinel I was using to chip off fingerstones from a worn down cerax 1000 on the base thing. Anyway I slipped and stabbed my thumb with a lot of force. Never went to the hospital though I should have probably, the pad of my thumb doesn't have feeling anymore around it. I think it went to the bone actually. Have a nasty scar now. It was a couple months ago.


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## Kippington (Apr 12, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Yeah. Most of the time I dont say anything. Especially if it's someone much older than me. I've started showing some people the murray Carter 3 finger edge test when I see them trying to feel the edge the wrong way. Usually I gauge the situation if I'm going to do that though.


There was a dude on this forum a while back who was testing by slicing the sharp edge across his thumb nail...


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## Kippington (Apr 12, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> There must be some kind of excellent battle-wound thread somewhere? And if not - one should definitely be started!
> 
> I've got a kinda weird calloused gauge at the knuckle of my left thumb from running it hard into a 40 grit sanding belt on numerous occasions. That's pretty painful too :/
> 
> View attachment 122414


Oh yeah, I've been there.




__





Ouch.


Who wants to see what my thumb looks like after I slipped and pushed it into the 2x72 grinder, which was set up for fastest metal removal... NSFW.




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## ian (Apr 12, 2021)

Kippington said:


> There was a dude on this forum a while back who was testing by slicing the sharp edge across his thumb nail...



more than one dude, I gather from the discussion that followed


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## cotedupy (Apr 12, 2021)

ian said:


> more than one dude, I gather from the discussion that followed



I sort of do something similar, though I'm not really slicing. More just rest it on my nail and see how grippy it feels. Don't know where I got it from, but seems to work for me.


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## cotedupy (Apr 12, 2021)

Kippington said:


> Oh yeah, I've been there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OMFG. That's gnarly af.


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## ian (Apr 12, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> I sort of do something similar, though I'm not really slicing. More just rest it on my nail and see how grippy it feels. Don't know where I got it from, but seems to work for me.



That’s the “real” test afaik. You can test how refined and acute the apex is by resting it on your thumbnail at an acute angle and seeing if it catches. I favor the three finger test personally, but that works. Think Kipp was just horrified by the actual slicing motion.


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## ian (Apr 12, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> OMFG. That's gnarly af.



I’m not clicking through. The pic is still in my mind after seeing it a year or whatever ago when he posted it.


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## cotedupy (Apr 12, 2021)

ian said:


> That’s the “real” test afaik. You can test how refined and acute the apex is by resting it on your thumbnail at an acute angle and seeing if it catches. I favor the three finger test personally, but that works. Think Kipp was just horrified by the actual slicing motion.



Ah gotcha, I must've read about it somewhere then. I'll have to have a go at the three finger test sometime, what is it in particular I'd be looking for? Or do I just need to try it out a few times and learn what it should feel like?

Yeah the idea of slicing across a nail makes me feel slightly uncomfortable. I have actually cut through the middle of one of my nails when I was quite young, and it's not very nice. A lot of nerves under there!


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## cotedupy (Apr 12, 2021)

ian said:


> I’m not clicking through. The pic is still in my mind after seeing it a year or whatever ago when he posted it.



Haha! Yep - I'm normally not too bad with things like that, but that picture was pretty hardcore. Especially given the amount of time I spend working with belt sanders (luckily not at mega high speeds!)


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 13, 2021)

Stick to newspaper non body part for testing sharpness.


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## big_adventure (Apr 13, 2021)

My test progression is to run the pad of a finger lightly along the apex bevel (I refuse to say primary or secondary now) to feel for a rough burr. Three-finger test for a smaller burr or to check the edge when there isn't a burr. I'll also use thin kleenex for verifying a clean edge after deburring on fine stones. 

I've used the thumbnail test to gauge for "toothiness" - I'm not a fan, likely because I lack confidence that I won't slice straight through the nail.

I'm relatively certain that I first saw that technique on one of @JBroida 's single-bevel sharpening vids.


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## ian (Apr 13, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> I'll have to have a go at the three finger test sometime, what is it in particular I'd be looking for? Or do I just need to try it out a few times and learn what it should feel like?



Mostly you’re looking for your body to quickly say “stop doing the test!!” when you put your three fingerpads on the edge and start to move them slightly. If it does, you have a reasonable sharp, toothy apex. You can also feel how refined it is, too. A coarse edge will just feel coarse to your fingers, but an ideal gyuto edge will feel pretty refined to the touch but will still cause your body to stay “stop!” super quickly.

I usually slice through a paper towel to check for burrs too.


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## cotedupy (Apr 13, 2021)

ian said:


> Mostly you’re looking for your body to quickly say “stop doing the test!!” when you put your three fingerpads on the edge and start to move them slightly. If it does, you have a reasonable sharp, toothy apex. You can also feel how refined it is, too. A coarse edge will just feel coarse to your fingers, but an ideal gyuto edge will feel pretty refined to the touch but will still cause your body to stay “stop!” super quickly.
> 
> I usually slice through a paper towel to check for burrs too.



That sounds no better than the slicing-through-your-thumb-nail test! I shall send you any medical bills incurred if I start trying it


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## ian (Apr 13, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> That sounds no better than the slicing-through-your-thumb-nail test! I shall send you any medical bills incurred if I start trying it



Heh. I think it’s different since your fingers are super sensitive so the feedback stops you from moving the knife basically as soon as you start. Like if you were watching someone do the test, you wouldn’t even see their fingers moving, it’s just a pressure difference


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## big_adventure (Apr 13, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> That sounds no better than the slicing-through-your-thumb-nail test! I shall send you any medical bills incurred if I start trying it



What @ian said - your fingertips are so sensitive that they will stop you from damaging yourself (too much). Even with my climbing-hardened tips, my automatic reactions stop me from cutting through any more than a few layers of dead-ass epidermis - way before it approaches actual damage.


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## AT5760 (Apr 13, 2021)

I was skeptical about the three finger test at first, but I'm a believer. Once you get used to it, you can quickly get a sense of the edge's condition. No cuts yet.


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## jwthaparc (Apr 13, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> That sounds no better than the slicing-through-your-thumb-nail test! I shall send you any medical bills incurred if I start trying it


I've done both. I definitely prefer the 3 finger test. With a very sharp blade, I really just look for it to have that "sticky" sharp feeling. I know my blades are going to be sharp already. So in my particular case I put my fingers on the edge, and if I move them its literally almost imperceptible, but I'm looking for it to have this sort of feeling from well formed apex whether its toothy or polished it will have almost a sticky quality when you touch it in this way


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## jwthaparc (Apr 13, 2021)

Btw here my middle finger today, it's not looking so good. Idk if you can tell from the picture but I definitely went a few layers of skin deep. 





Here's something else. To take your mind off it.


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## big_adventure (Apr 13, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Btw here my middle finger today, it's not looking so good. Idk if you can tell from the picture but I definitely went a few layers of skin deep. View attachment 122551
> 
> 
> Here's something else. To take your mind off it. View attachment 122550



Nice wound there.

I took off my initial dressing from mine this morning and yes, it's too damn deep. I got freakishly lucky that I didn't take out a tendon, to be honest. 3 steristrips later, then covering it with a waterproof/breatheable bandage, I'm pretty sure I've got it taken care of for the time being. I'll grab a photo for scare factor when I change it up tomorrow.


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## M1k3 (Apr 13, 2021)

For the finger nail test, you don't want to actually move the knife across your nail. Only trying to move it. If there's resistance, it's sharp and has bite, in that spot. If it tries to slide easily, go back to the stones.


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## Corradobrit1 (Apr 13, 2021)

Evan Antzenberger gave himself a nasty cut on a Suji and posted the aftermath on IG yesterday. Bloody mess. Even the pros manage the occasional oopsies


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## MarcelNL (Apr 13, 2021)

big_adventure said:


> I was washing a blindingly sharp Hinoura 240 gyuto today when I turned to talk to my girlfriend. The brand-new sponge slipped and I sliced deeply into my left middle finger. I now am 50/50 on whether I need to go to the hospital. I stopped the bleeding with pressure, drowned it in surgical betadine, pressure wrapped it, and I tested all directions and don't feel pain or weakness in ligaments or tendons, but I'm relatively sure I cut deep into the dermis. So - nasty scar or stitches tomorrow. One or the other.



if it stopped bleeding and the damage is superficial you may be able to avoid stitches and a scar by sticking some suture tape over the wound to close it...or, even better (if not bleeding internally) use a drop of cyanoacrylate glue (they sell a hideously expensive one for medical use)


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## KingShapton (Apr 13, 2021)

This is my standard test! But NEVER move the knife across your nail. I CAREFULLY try to see if the edge bites into the nail. I may try to see if I can easily shave / plan off a very fine chip from my thumbnail, but VERY CAREFULLY!


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## Corradobrit1 (Apr 13, 2021)

If it shaves hair its sharp enough


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## stringer (Apr 13, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Btw here my middle finger today, it's not looking so good. Idk if you can tell from the picture but I definitely went a few layers of skin deep. View attachment 122551
> 
> 
> Here's something else. To take your mind off it. View attachment 122550


looks a lot like mine


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## esoo (Apr 13, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> For the finger nail test, you don't want to actually move the knife across your nail. Only trying to move it. If there's resistance, it's sharp and has bite, in that spot. If it tries to slide easily, go back to the stones.



If you take it too far up the grit ladder, it doesn't bite anymore. Made that mistake on my last sharpening experience.


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## M1k3 (Apr 13, 2021)

esoo said:


> If you take it too far up the grit ladder, it doesn't bite anymore. Made that mistake on my last sharpening experience.


I don't have any problem with bite off my 10k.


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## esoo (Apr 13, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> I don't have any problem with bite off my 10k.



My last sharpening (1k/6k/12k) have me an edge without bite. But I'll admit I did change my technique a bit. I had been using 1k/12k and that was plenty nice.


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## stringer (Apr 14, 2021)

esoo said:


> My last sharpening (1k/6k/12k) have me an edge without bite. But I'll admit I did change my technique a bit. I had been using 1k/12k and that was plenty nice.



My biggest problem with going too fine on synthetic stones isn't loss of bite. On my big workhorse gyutos and Chinese cleavers if I go too fine, I think mainly as a result of my chopping style, the knife will stick in the cutting board after the down stroke and lift the cutting board back up with it on the upstroke. That annoys me. When I feel this happening I temper the edge back a bit by hitting a 2k ceramic hone or my soft arkansas pocket hone. 
I don't notice it as much for nakiris, petties, sujis, etc that are either lighter or don't see much board use or both. I also don't have the same issue going to very fine natural finishers as opposed to synthetic. But my Shapton Pro 12K for instance, turns my Watanabe into a cutting board handle. You feel like you could lift the whole cutting board up and carry it over to the sink if you wanted to.


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## esoo (Apr 14, 2021)

stringer said:


> My biggest problem with going too fine on synthetic stones isn't loss of bite. On my big workhorse gyutos and Chinese cleavers if I go too fine, I think mainly as a result of my chopping style, the knife will stick in the cutting board after the down stroke and lift the cutting board back up with it on the upstroke. That annoys me. When I feel this happening I temper the edge back a bit by hitting a 2k ceramic hone or my soft arkansas pocket hone.
> I don't notice it as much for nakiris, petties, sujis, etc that are either lighter or don't see much board use or both. I also don't have the same issue going to very fine natural finishers as opposed to synthetic. But my Shapton Pro 12K for instance, turns my Watanabe into a cutting board handle. You feel like you could lift the whole cutting board up and carry it over to the sink if you wanted to.



Just confirmation that my technique needs work - my SP1K/SG6K/SP12K progression doesn't bite and doesn't stick into the board. Gotta fix that damn wobble.....


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## esoo (Apr 14, 2021)

esoo said:


> Just confirmation that my technique needs work - my SP1K/SG6K/SP12K progression doesn't bite and doesn't stick into the board. Gotta fix that damn wobble.....



yup..... wobble... redid the blade at 6K and 12K with my stronger technique. Lots of bite now.


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## Rangen (Apr 14, 2021)

esoo said:


> yup..... wobble... redid the blade at 6K and 12K with my stronger technique. Lots of bite now.



How did you change your technique to fix the wobble?


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## esoo (Apr 14, 2021)

Rangen said:


> How did you change your technique to fix the wobble?



For me, I have to use the ”western” method where you sweep the whole blade rather than back and forth across one section. It’s the change in direction that messes me up.


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## Chang (Apr 14, 2021)

It's how "old school" people are, they're just ignorant. I don't sharpen anything for my family because what I do is "too much work" or "unnecessary". my aunt had the nerve to tell me that my knife wasn't sharp after I had just taken it through a full progression and that her kiwi fruit knife was sharper. These people aren't open to new ideas or corrections. just ignore them and let them stay ig'nant


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## Rangen (Apr 14, 2021)

esoo said:


> For me, I have to use the ”western” method where you sweep the whole blade rather than back and forth across one section. It’s the change in direction that messes me up.



Interesting. If I do that, I wind up with an unintended microbevel in the curvy parts, unless the bevel is wide enough to keep me on track. What works for me consistently is the back and forth, but with fingertips behind the bevel so I can sense and control when I've got the angle just right. Works for the edge-leading part afterwards, too.


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## Corradobrit1 (Apr 14, 2021)

esoo said:


> yup..... wobble... redid the blade at 6K and 12K with my stronger technique. Lots of bite now.


The applied pressure can make a huge difference especially on natural stones. Its stone dependent too, so there's a lot of trial and error, with some needing more than others.


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## esoo (Apr 14, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> The applied pressure can make a huge difference especially on natural stones. Its stone dependent too, so there's a lot of trial and error, with some needing more than others.



True. I’ve actually found some great results using more pressure than I do naturally. I used my Shapton Glass 6K to take out a bit of a dent I put in a blade using a lot more pressure than my usual and it made a wicked good edge.


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## juice (Apr 14, 2021)

Chang said:


> These people aren't open to new ideas or corrections. just ignore them and let them stay ig'nant


This is solid life advice, not just for knives.


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 16, 2021)

stringer said:


> looks a lot like mine
> 
> View attachment 122565



You have any animal scratches, nice cats.


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## stringer (Apr 16, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> You have any animal scratches, nice cats.



Nah. We have had them since they were kittens and they are 12 now. They are the tamest, chillest cats in the world. I think one of them is getting thyroid stuff so she has started to get pretty vocal around feeding time. But they have never scratched or bitten anyone but moths and flies.


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## matchplay18 (Apr 17, 2021)

Nothing worse than trying to sharpen cheap kitchen knives.


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## esoo (Apr 17, 2021)

matchplay18 said:


> Nothing worse than trying to sharpen cheap kitchen knives.



Having to use unsharpened cheap kitchen knives


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## jwthaparc (Apr 21, 2021)

matchplay18 said:


> Nothing worse than trying to sharpen cheap kitchen knives.


Maybe having to sharpen cheap Damascus fixed blades. Idk where people get them but they all look exactly the same, and I swear they are alway either not hardened, or made of mild steel of something.


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 26, 2021)

this is an older thread. but it resonates with me. my wife truly made me a better person.

I now can give a flying eff what a total stranger thinks - especially about me. why give that person any power over you? he probably walked back with his dull knife, got into his car and quit thinking about you. I seriously believe he didn't go home, get on his computer and start a thread called, "I met a guy today that cannot sharpen a knife"

ask yourself this when a problem like this comes up..and it will. all the time, come up. ask yourself. in 7 days, will this still bother you? you probably wont even remember it in 7 days. bad driver, forget about it. pull over let them go. someone flips you off, whatever.. move on. I seriously don't give an eff about other people trying to get into my head. (which I perceive as them trying to get into my head - most likely they are NOT)


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## jwthaparc (Apr 28, 2021)

boomchakabowwow said:


> this is an older thread. but it resonates with me. my wife truly made me a better person.
> 
> I now can give a flying eff what a total stranger thinks - especially about me. why give that person any power over you? he probably walked back with his dull knife, got into his car and quit thinking about you. I seriously believe he didn't go home, get on his computer and start a thread called, "I met a guy today that cannot sharpen a knife"
> 
> ask yourself this when a problem like this comes up..and it will. all the time, come up. ask yourself. in 7 days, will this still bother you? you probably wont even remember it in 7 days. bad driver, forget about it. pull over let them go. someone flips you off, whatever.. move on. I seriously don't give an eff about other people trying to get into my head. (which I perceive as them trying to get into my head - most likely they are NOT)


I know he didn't think about me for even a second after he walked off. 

So, I'm in the alcoholics anonymous program. I only bring it up because of the relevance to your post. The program basically goes over the exact things you said. Step four is about writing down the resentments you have built up over the years and looking at your part in them. 

In my case, and most others the resentment stems from some sort of self centered fear, or a need to control others, and unrealistic expectations put on them. 

The whole reason I wrote the thread was to help remove the thought of this guy from my mind. I had a resentment, and I played a part in the incident too.


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 28, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I know he didn't think about me for even a second after he walked off.
> 
> So, I'm in the alcoholics anonymous program. I only bring it up because of the relevance to your post. The program basically goes over the exact things you said. Step four is about writing down the resentments you have built up over the years and looking at your part in them.
> 
> ...


preaching to the choir. yup.

look up the Chinese proverb about these two monks that came to a river where they encountered a young lady...…


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## jwthaparc (Apr 29, 2021)

boomchakabowwow said:


> preaching to the choir. yup.
> 
> look up the Chinese proverb about these two monks that came to a river where they encountered a young lady...…


Wow that's so wierd someone told that story in a meeting last week, and it was the first time I had heard it.


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