# Shun Blue vs Dual Core?



## viclauyyc (Nov 15, 2017)

Hello, 
I am new here.

I want to get a Shun Kiritsuke. The choice narrow down to Blue and Dual Core Kiritsuke. The price different is ok with me, cause I plan to use it for long long time.

Can someone tell me which series is better and why? Also which one is easier to take care of?

On side note, is DALSTRONG Gladiator Pro Kiritsuke good? Amazon reviewer gave very high score. The main problem for me is made in china. And I am a Chinese.

Thanks ahead.
Vic


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## daveb (Nov 15, 2017)

Welcome to the forum Vic.

The knives you are looking at are referred to as K shaped Gyuto or Gyutos with a tip like is found on a Kiritsuke. They are all double bevel blades, perhaps a little flatter than their regular Gyuto counterparts (No Shun has ever been accused of being flat) and they have that tip that seems to be the flavor of the month. All of the platitudes about the Kiritsuke being a "Master" chef knife refer to the true single bevel Kiritsuke and are simply marketing hype when used to describe these Shuns.

That said there is nothing wrong with a K tip or K shaped Gyuto. The shape does get some cool points and when the knife is actually flatter and thinner than a similar Gyuto they can have some additional utility. This is not the case with the Shun and certainly not the case with the Dalstrong. Ewwwwwwwwwww.

If you're not set on Shun then consider some of the better made, less marketed, less costly alternatives. This Kochi from Japanese Knife Imports gets a lot of love here.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ainless-clad-carbon-kiritsuke-shaped-wa-gyuto

THere are many others as well. Suggest you fill out the "Which Knife?" questionnaire for some more recs tailored to your requirements.

Hope I didn't rain on your parade. Again, welcome.

Did I mention the Dalstrong sucks? Amazon is probably not the best place for shopping quality knives.


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## viclauyyc (Nov 19, 2017)

Hello Daveb,
The Kochi is a little over my budget. I can get the Shun dual core Kiritsuke 8" for $238 use. Also the Kochi is out of stock and too long for my need. When I check the Kochi in google japan, I can't find any info. Not even the company. So I am not too sure Kochi.

So do the think Shun is good deal for 238? Personally, I like the K shaped with 6-7 inch blade. But it seems if I go down to 6", it called differently.

thanks a lot


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## F-Flash (Nov 19, 2017)

Dont buy shun, fill out questionaire here. Best decision of your life.


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## WifeNotUnderstand (Nov 19, 2017)

I first purchased Shun's - they were great at the time - best knife i had....

I now have J Knives

now the Shuns don't even get touched

Save yourself time and money and fill out the questionnaire and get some advice from people that know their stuff and get something that is way better for you for the same $ - that's why you came here


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## Pensacola Tiger (Nov 19, 2017)

While I agree with the sentiments voiced by other members, that you may be better served with a different knife, I'll attempt to answer your questions rather than ignore them.

Almost three years ago a generous forum member (glc) lent his Dual Core kiritsuke out in a pass around, and I wrote a short review that you can find here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...ore-8-quot-K-tipped-Gyuto?p=348404#post348404. My opinions have not changed.

In the intervening time I've had the chance to use a Shun Blue kiritsuke, though I was not able to compare the two knives side by side. My impressions of the Shun Blue are similar, except for those about the damascus. The tip is still reasonably thin, and the geometry is decent. I found the core steel of the Shun Blue to be easy to sharpen, and it had decent edge retention on non-acidic foods, as is the case with most carbon steel. The sides of the knife are polished stainless, and tend to show every little scratch, unlike the damascus of the Dual Core. 

I hope this helped.


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## Paraffin (Nov 19, 2017)

viclauyyc said:


> So do the think Shun is good deal for 238? Personally, I like the K shaped with 6-7 inch blade. But it seems if I go down to 6", it called differently.



I have a Shun Dual Core Kiritsuke so I can give you some feedback on that. Like many others, Shun was as gateway into Japanese knives for me, and I've since moved on to what I think are better knives. However, I'm not selling my Shun Kiritsuke. It serves a purpose in my kit because it's built a little heavier and feels "tougher" than many of my Japanese knives. I use it for things like slicing potato rounds or squash, where I might not use my thinner knives. 

The Dual Core knife sharpens on a stone about the same as other stainless knives, not as easy as carbon steel but not especially difficult. I haven't noticed the advertised "built-in sawtooth edge" from the dual core feature, it just acts like a regular knife. 

Note: One potential downside of this "dual core design," is that the pattern-weld Damascus goes right to the cutting edge, so when the knife eventually requires thinning to maintain the edge angle, I don't know how that will turn out. It might require a lot of hand-polishing near the edge to maintain the look.

As for whether it's a "good deal" at $238 (assuming we're talking US dollars), I bought my Dual Core Kiritsuke on sale for $200, which is about what I think it's worth compared to other knives out there. You can find better knives once you get into the $150-$200 range, so pay attention to other recommendations here. You you can get many other K-tip Gyuto knives that have this same profile, if not this particular pattern-weld Damascus look.


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## idemhj (Nov 20, 2017)

viclauyyc said:


> When I check the Kochi in google japan, I can't find any info. Not even the company. So I am not too sure Kochi.



Apparently you do not realise that the Kochi is not made by any japanese company (very few of the knives we discuss here are), it is made exclusively for JKI by a small blacksmith. If you prefer a company-knife, then that is up to you, but it is clearly not the wisest approach


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## JBroida (Nov 20, 2017)

for what its worth, I am also avaliable here or via email to answer questions about the kochi line if you would prefer that (being that I have them made for us and have a lot of experience using them and spending time with the craftsman who makes them).


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## viclauyyc (Nov 25, 2017)

Paraffin said:


> I have a Shun Dual Core Kiritsuke so I can give you some feedback on that. Like many others, Shun was as gateway into Japanese knives for me,



thanks for your advice. But I still debating what to get.


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## viclauyyc (Nov 25, 2017)

Thanks for the helpful info, I will take a closer look.

Seems so many people here hate Shun. It is like asking which iPhone I should get in a cellphone forum.

Again, as I said, I am new here. That is why I ask.


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## viclauyyc (Nov 25, 2017)

LOCATION
Calgary, Canada



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Kiritsuke 

Are you right or left handed?
right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? 
Japanese all the way.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 
6-8inch

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) 
yes but not must.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? 
230USD



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? 
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Mostly cutting meat and veg. 

What knife, if any, are you replacing? the utilities knife. 
I already have a set of boning knife, ZWILLING butcher knife, some cheap japanese knife and chinese chop knife.


Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) 
Hammer grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) 
Draw and slice 

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) 
Sharper and a litter heavier. 

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? 
Good to have but not a must.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? 
Heavier than average. Bigger handle. Better balance.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? 
Able to air dry will be the best. Better food release. 

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
We don't cook everyday. So every 2-3 month will be good.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) 
Wood and rubber.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) 
yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) 
already have a lot


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## Nemo (Nov 25, 2017)

Just to clarify: do you want a true kuristuke (single bevel, usually carbon steel, usually longer than 8"/200mm) or a k-tip gyuto (double bevel gyuto with a flat profile where the tip drops down from the spine). Or would you be happy with a standard gyuto with a flat profile?


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## WiscoNole (Nov 26, 2017)

WifeNotUnderstand said:


> I first purchased Shun's - they were great at the time - best knife i had....
> 
> I now have J Knives
> 
> now the Shuns don't even get touched


I think you're confused about the origin of Shun knives.


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## shownomarci (Nov 27, 2017)

If i was you, i would visit Knifewear and a get feel of the knives. (They have a shop local to you.)
Once you've had a few in your hands and tried them (don't know whether they have any veg in the store to cut up), you might even change your mind.
Shibata san's knives do have K-tip and have a really good edge retention, but they're a bit out of your budget.
And i would look at the bunka (type) knives as well. Might find one what suits you.


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 27, 2017)

I am very familiar with the Shun K tip carbon core with black wood saya. Students at culinary school get a big discount on shuns. Retail is over 200.00 their price 130.00.

It is a narrow blade and has a thick grind. I would not even pay the sale price for those knives. 

As was mentioned if you are near Knifeware go check out blades in person. 

I really like my Kochi stainless clad 180mm K tip. Use it at home. It is not much over 200.00 and in stock last time I looked. It looks much better in person than the pictures on JKI site. Hand forged beauty. Feels like more than 180mm because it is so tall. Grind is excellent. Hand carved Kanji.

To think that the Shun at retail is around the same price as the Kochi is a joke.

Welcome to the site, Have Chinese extended family, I am Scottish decent like good quality at fair price Thrifty The Kochi is a good deal, the Shun is not.


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## StonedEdge (Nov 27, 2017)

There are way better deals to be had online vs Knifewear...get a feel for the knives there and then look online


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## erezj (Nov 30, 2017)

I love mu Shun, like many, it was my first 'real knife' and my jumping board to the rabbit hole.

But...  ... 5 j knives later I would have chosen a different path, my 2C:

1. When i bought my Shun, it was supposed to be my 'Knife Forever', but once I was exposed to J knives, I found I want to try more types/blacksmith and materials. I would recommend going to the Buy/Sell section, write what you are looking for and buy a second hand knife for much cheaper than new, after a year or so, you will see you want to try something new...
2. If you are overwhelmed as I initially was by this forum, search for a recommended dealer to talk to. I would highly recommend Jon, already on this thread, he is a bottomless source of knowledge, and just overall an honest guy (watch some of his youtubes), another vendor I like is Maxim...there are a few more out there.
3. there is great joy in having a blacksmith blade. In this crazy modern era, J Knives is one of the only places where you can by an authentic hand made product by an artisan, which is both better and sometimes times cheaper than corporate manufacturing. 
4. A dull knife does not cut ! All knives become dull ! entering the world of high end knives is also entering the world of maintaining your edge. The sphere of sharpening is probably as complex, if not more than the knife itself. Choose a knife that has the geometry to make sharpening easy (wide bevel for me) and working with someone like Jon to suggest the correct stone combination and simple advice (and fixing your initial mistakes) is the most important part.

hope this helps.

ps
Kochi is one of my favorites !


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## knspiracy (Nov 8, 2020)

Keith Sinclair said:


> It is a narrow blade and has a thick grind.


Can u help me understand what this means olz. It seems like an oxymoron..


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## timebard (Nov 8, 2020)

knspiracy said:


> Can u help me understand what this means olz. It seems like an oxymoron..



I'm no expert on grinds but here goes:

Think of the opposite geometry, a thick blade with a thin grind. This is what's desirable in a good workhorse: you have a lot of cross-sectional room between the spine and edge for convexity that helps with food release, while still tapering to a thin edge that penetrates food well. There are trade-offs with this kind of grind (wedging) but the weight and heft of the blade helps it power through product. And a thick spine can be more comfortable in hand than a thin one. So it cuts well.

Now think of a laser geometry: thin at the spine, tapering steadily towards the edge and yielding very little metal behind that edge. This won't have much space for convexity so it won't shed food well, but it'll slide through product with very little resistance. It also cuts well. The thin spine might be less comfortable for extended use but it won't require much force to make cuts and won't wedge.

If you have a lower quality knife, it may be that it's thin at the spine, say 2mm, but rather than having a high grind that makes it very thin by the time you get close to the edge, the grind starts fairly low (close to the edge) and at a more conservative angle. This knife will be the worst of both worlds because it doesn't have the heft, comfort, and convexity of the workhorse nor the absolute thinness behind the edge to cut well. So you'll get neither the 'ghost through product' feeling of the laser nor the authoritative, 'the weight of the knife is doing the work' feeling of the workhorse, nor a happy medium between the two.


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## Boynutman (Nov 8, 2020)

Welcome to the forum!

Consider this. The fact that you ended up here at the forums suggests that you are part of a tiny minority that actually cares about this stuff (self congratulatory thoughts are in order ).
Take your time, and whatever you decide enjoy the ride.


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 8, 2020)

knspiracy said:


> Can u help me understand what this means olz. It seems like an oxymoron..



By narrow blade meant not tall eg. Spine to heel distance. It has a thick grind not thin at all behind the edge.

San Mai stainless clad carbon core is very popular Japan makes a lot of them.

Just saying that particular San Mai Shun blade is not that good IMO.


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## knspiracy (Nov 9, 2020)

timebard said:


> I'm no expert on grinds but here goes:
> 
> Think of the opposite geometry, a thick blade with a thin grind. This is what's desirable in a good workhorse: you have a lot of cross-sectional room between the spine and edge for convexity that helps with food release, while still tapering to a thin edge that penetrates food well. There are trade-offs with this kind of grind (wedging) but the weight and heft of the blade helps it power through product. And a thick spine can be more comfortable in hand than a thin one. So it cuts well.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed response!


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## Southpaw (Nov 10, 2020)

Welcome to the forum! Although asking about Shun and Dalstrong is like jumping into no man’s land with a neon shirt. So happy daveb answered u first before some know-it-all was mean!


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