# JNS Kato Workhorse



## ChipB

I'm very interested in Kato knives and have been emailing Maksim to try to get a couple answers about his workhorse line, but haven't gotten a response so thought I'd try my luck here. Was looking for answers to the following:

1) How does the Yoshiaki Fujiwara line differ from regular Kato knives if at all?
2) What is the cladding? Iron, softer carbon steel etc.
3) Is the listed weight of 270 grams correct on the 240? That's approaching heavy deba weight and seems a bit high especially as the 210 is listed at 183 grams. Adding nearly 100 grams for an extra inch of knife is odd
4) Is the steel white number 2?

If anyone knows the answer to any of these questions it would be much appreciated


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## Asteger

I'll have a go, because I like my Katos.

I've seen other Kato in Japan, and they look pretty much the same but are apparently made with Blue #2. Actually, blue #2 is really popular in Japan and would be considered good. The JNS ones, though, do have a special steel - some kind of old stuff, I forget. It's harder and can get sharper, etc. Great stuff, and no not white #2.

Cladding - actually, I don't know, but it's quite hard. It's not like a Shig, for example, so you would be putting nice hazy kasumi patterns on it.

270g - yes, I believe it is. I think mine is there. On the heavy side for sure.


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## ChipB

Awesome, thanks Asteger. Very helpful indeed!


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## schanop

IMO, if you look carefully, JNS workhorse and kikuryu are also generally a bit taller and has slightly different profile, especially towards the tip. My kikuryu 240 is 270g with handle.


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## daveb

I used Pitonboy's 270 Kato during a passaround, it scaled at 302g. You might be interested in the passaround thread at: 

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...ked-you-whined-now-here-it-is-Kato-passaround


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## schanop

Some pictures, JNS, japan-tool, tosho:


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## Asteger

Just to clarify as I made a typo - I wrote:

'Cladding - actually, I don't know, but it's quite hard. It's not like a Shig, for example, so you would be putting nice hazy kasumi patterns on it.'

But I meant that the cladding is hard (which is one reason why the knife's been described as performing more like a honyaki) and so you would NOT be able to sand a pretty kasumi haze onto it.


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## labor of love

I could definitely be mistaken, but didnt Mark have some Katos for sale in white steel a few monthes ago? Either way, FWIW the workhorse series that Maxim carries is the way to go if you get a Kato. Awesome Steel and grind atleast, but they're certainly for people who prefer heavy gyutos. The cladding is not too reactive either for soft cladding but who knows that could just be my imagination.


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## ChipB

Interesting, and great color guys. I do prefer a bit more heft in my knives which is what drew me to the knives. If you guys were going to contrast these with a Shig (own a kasumi in 240), what would your thoughts be there?


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## labor of love

ChipB said:


> Interesting, and great color guys. I do prefer a bit more heft in my knives which is what drew me to the knives. If you guys were going to contrast these with a Shig (own a kasumi in 240), what would your thoughts be there?



Kato would make a good contrast with a shig, or any other knife really lol. Theres nothing else out there that is quite like Kato, its pretty unique due to its weight, spine thickness and size.


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## Matus

It seems that this thread would be a good place to ask the following question - are _all_ Kato gyuto knives available via JNS designed as 'workhorse'? My concern is the weight as 270g is definitely more that I would like a 240mm gyuto to weight


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## ChipB

That's kind of where I was going with this as well. 9.5 oz is really heavy German territory. I've noticed non-JNS Kato 240s are about 1.5 oz lighter


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## brainsausage

They don't feel heavy during use. And It's my understanding that Maxim has them made to his specs, as such they are only available in that weight range (and only available on his site in that style). Never heard of anyone doing a special order, which makes me think it would've happened by now considering some of the deep pockets that hang out around here. I could be wrong... Somebody please prove me wrong...

My 240 Kato is the one knife that I've sold over the last year, that I truly regret letting go of during my search for new gyutos. And that included: A new batch DT, Pierre Midtech, old school Masamoto KS, and Itonomonn Kurouchi(as well as a couple passarounds: Watanabe pro, Singatrin, and one or two that I've forgotten because they didn't impress me). All very fairly different in terms of grind, and weight. But none held a candle, both in terms of feel, performance, and edge retention to the Kato IMO(Watanabe was in the ballpark). I stopped my search last fall with a Kasumi Shig. It's the only other gyuto I've used thus far that has the same character, and level of performance. You really can't compare the two, as the edge retention on the shig is nowhere near the Kato. And the Shig weighs at least 30-40 grams less. But they're both the most unique feeling gyutos I've worked with. Both have a very singular character, and that nice wow factor when cutting(and chunkier emotos, which is a must IMO)

I'm definitely picking up another Kato at the end of the summer when I get my loyalty bonus... 

Miss that sucker...


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## ChipB

brainsausage said:


> I stopped my search last fall with a Kasumi Shig. It's the only other gyuto I've used thus far that has the same character, and level of performance. You really can't compare the two, as the edge retention on the shig is nowhere near the Kato. And the Shig weighs at least 30-40 grams less. But they're both the most unique feeling gyutos I've worked with. Both have a very singular character, and that nice wow factor when cutting(and chunkier emotos, which is a must IMO)



Couldn't agree more about the neck. One of the first, and most pleasing things I noticed about my Shig. Absolutely smitten with the knife and, is by far the best blade in my block (which is admittedly far smaller/less seasoned than yours). But, like you, the I approach I take to knife connoisseurship is to sample many variants of a given pattern (in this case gyuto), to better my understand the nuances of the blade and, ultimately, define what my ideal knife is. To that end, from what I have heard/read about Kato blades, I would be remiss if I didn't grab one.

Side note, Tosho and CKTG both carry Kato knives with different weight profiles (can't really tell if the edge profile and blade geometry differs) from JNS. Both sites claim White #1 for the steel. I get a little skeptical of the JNS line when I can't get answers to some very basic questions about the knife. I'm not questioning whether or not they are Katos, but it does raise some flags inre steel, quality, comparative performance etc., when some very basic questions about the knife seemingly can't/won't be answered.


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## labor of love

You can use the JNS website to ask Maxim questions in real time if he is available. If he isnt online he always gets back in touch via email promptly with whatever questions you may have. Or you can PM him here. Or you can even start a thread in his sub forum.


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## ChipB

Emailed him multiple times with no response. A bit discouraging to be honest. Doesn't exactly endear me to his product. Especially when Tosho, CKTG, Japan Woodworker etc. are all reliable, and responsive alternatives.


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## ChipB

He lost a potential sale on a Shigefusa, and will likely lose one on a Kato as a result


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## ChipB

Guess losing a sale on either smith doesn't mean a lot as both sell quick, but that is short sighted. Tosho can thank JNS for the Kato 240 purchase (in stock on both sites) as Maxim couldn't be bothered to respond to multiple info requests for weeks.


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## ChipB

Update, purchased a 210 from CKTG.


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## daveb

You've made your point guy. Hope you enjoy your knives.


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## maxim

I just seen that post. 

So i will try to explain politely . 

When i start to read my emails in the morning i look them all quickly through first. And if i have 2 same emails in the inbox one with questions and another one with threatening text where it says if i don't answer right away he go and buy els where, i simply delete that emails. So simple is that. They was send same day as i can see 

I am not a professional web store as it also says on my website. I am alone to answer all emails do all bookkeeping ordering everything researching testing packing. Do all paperwork for export import etc. etc. 
And i enjoying it very much !  But please understand sometimes it will take more then one day to answer your emails 

Also as i am one man i do take things personal sometimes :O as all products i sell is only selected by me in japan where i meet the makers talk to them get good relationship with them then test a lot before i put them on the store. Thats why i have only 3 makers in the store ! I wait in many cases for knives 2 or 3 years !!! To get my knives finished like i want them.
So when costumer can not wait one day to get answer i just don't take that serious, Sorry ! 

Now for my answers to your questions:

1) How does the Yoshiaki Fujiwara line differ from regular Kato knives if at all?
*Profile, Steel, FF, Heat-treat, Handle, Grind *

2) What is the cladding? Iron, softer carbon steel etc.
*Soft iron 
*
3) Is the listed weight of 270 grams correct on the 240? That's approaching heavy deba weight and seems a bit high especially as the 210 is listed at 183 grams. Adding nearly 100 grams for an extra inch of knife is odd
*Yes it is correct it is taler knife thats why wight a lot more 
*
4) Is the steel white number 2?
*No*


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## Matus

DELETED: I took too long to answer and my post is not relevant anymore.


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## maxim

Also i like to point out that many emails get in the spam folder. Or just get missed. Thats how it is  
But even so there is Soooooo many places to contact me and ask some question. 
Also i have huge Wiki where almost everything can be answered. Videos even video of Kato making that workhorse 

And you will never waist my time to ask questions !!! I will love to answer them ! All i say dont be rude when you do it


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## Matus

Thank you Maksim. I have one question left - could there ever be a lighter version of Kato gyuto (like 'non workhorse'), or is the current design simply the way Kato forges his gyutos and does not make any thinner/lighter versions.


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## maxim

I did try all designs before we went for workhorse. 
All the good stuff about Kato is lost if you make it thiner and lighter 
He can do or do make them thinner and lighter. But i just dont like them that way thats why i will not have them


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## Matus

Fair enough


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## rami_m

One question from me, in terms of performance how different is the Damascus from the clad? Should I get clad for next knife or worth it to save more and get Damascus. 

Ps sorry but I forgot what's it's actually called k something or other. Not sure what's the difference between that and Damascus.


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## schanop

You can have a look at western handle version, Matus. Although it is not lighter per see, but it is slightly thinner at the spine as far as I have seen.


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## maxim

rami_m said:


> One question from me, in terms of performance how different is the Damascus from the clad? Should I get clad for next knife or worth it to save more and get Damascus.
> 
> Ps sorry but I forgot what's it's actually called k something or other. Not sure what's the difference between that and Damascus.



The cladding is even harder then on Kasumi. Kikuryu actually quenched like honyaki blades with more clay on the spine. 

But workhorse have all the good stuff as Kikuryu have  I think it is more workmanship of Kikuryu and looks. Where workhorse is just workhorse


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## rami_m

Thanks Maksim, give me a few month and I will come knocking.


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## ChipB

Thanks Maksim. Sorry we couldn't connect earlier. You carry some fantastic knives and have provided a great intro to the world of natural stones and some of the better smiths in Japan


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## Andrey V

Hi, folks
I use all the lines of Kato- i can admit, this is something which make you smile every time use grip it for cutting tasks. 
The 210 Dragon ( my Dragon at least) is the lightest version of his all Gyutos. My favorite as well 
Damascus is much havier, a very sturdy knife. Kikuryu is , of course, the samurai sword. Heavy, sturdy, aggresive, great. 
Comparing Shigs and Kato- Kato is better in any sence. IMO, of course. I say it having them all ( almost . Inkl all the Yanagis ( 210/240/270/300), in Kasumi and Kitaeji. I like Kato just more. Even in Petty- the cut is different.. Kuro is better on Shigs, but Kato cuts better! I mean their Kuroushi lines. I will even sell some of my Shigs . 
And the lines Maksim sells are by far not the lines you my find- i saw Kato in Shirogami 2- here he uses a different steel, the knives are harder, better done, you feel a real weapon in the hand while cutting.. There are my 2 cents


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## rami_m

I am so confused now. I love the single shig I got. Your words lead me to want to try a Kato but which one to get?


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## labor of love

rami_m said:


> I am so confused now. I love the single shig I got. Your words lead me to want to try a Kato but which one to get?



Its just one persons opinion. I personally would take a Shig Kasumi over any of the Kato lines.


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## chefcomesback

rami_m said:


> I am so confused now. I love the single shig I got. Your words lead me to want to try a Kato but which one to get?




If you can find one get a kikuryu or a new workhorse


Sent from my iPhone using Kitchen Knife Forum


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## Von blewitt

labor of love said:


> Its just one persons opinion. I personally would take a Shig Kasumi over any of the Kato lines.



Yeah, personal preference plays a big part, I have owned Shig Kasumi & Kitaeji, and Kato workhorse & Kikuryu, Wa & Yo from both makers. I know what i like, but I wouldn't say someone else was wrong for having a varying opinion. If there was one knife which was the best we'd all own it?


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## rami_m

Very true. But there are things every one agrees on like the Richmond knives or shuns. I don't need to own said knives but if someone I respect have an opinion I better listen. After all they are more experienced.


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## chefcomesback

rami_m said:


> Very true. But there are things every one agrees on like the Richmond knives or shuns. I don't need to own said knives but if someone I respect have an opinion I better listen. After all they are more experienced.



FWIW The japanese made As laser is a decent knife , but keep in mind everybody has different preferences you should take people's advice with a grain of salt


Sent from my iPhone using Kitchen Knife Forum


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## labor of love

Von blewitt said:


> Yeah, personal preference plays a big part, I have owned Shig Kasumi & Kitaeji, and Kato workhorse & Kikuryu, Wa & Yo from both makers. I know what i like, but I wouldn't say someone else was wrong for having a varying opinion. If there was one knife which was the best we'd all own it?


FWIW Katos are definitely worth checking out. Especially the workhorse line. My only point is that we can come to different conclusions about things sometimes.


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## CoqaVin

any of the Japanese made ones that are re-branded are pretty good AFAIK, the L&G's are the ones you should stay away from IMHO


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## Andrey V

rami_m said:


> I am so confused now. I love the single shig I got. Your words lead me to want to try a Kato but which one to get?



Absolutely no need to be confused! Shigs and Katos are great anyway, you should have your preferences. I prefer Kato over Shige, but this are my preferences . I can explain( also technically ) why, but this is still not an advise. 
Better try them out in action, then you'll know it for sure!


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## rami_m

Andrey V said:


> Absolutely no need to be confused! Shigs and Katos are great anyway, you should have your preferences. I prefer Kato over Shige, but this are my preferences . I can explain( also technically ) why, but this is still not an advise.
> Better try them out in action, then you'll know it for sure!



ok, send me a few and i will give it a shot . i would need to spend some time with each blade to work things out.


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## Andrey V

rami_m said:


> ok, send me a few and i will give it a shot . i would need to spend some time with each blade to work things out.



Aha


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## sachem allison

ChipB said:


> Guess losing a sale on either smith doesn't mean a lot as both sell quick, but that is short sighted. Tosho can thank JNS for the Kato 240 purchase (in stock on both sites) as Maxim couldn't be bothered to respond to multiple info requests for weeks.



Maxim has been on vacation and isn't around. He posted he will be gone and that is why you haven't gotten a response from him. As for the dubious nature of his Kato's be aware that he was the on that introduced Kato and that the the other sellers began selling their versions after the success of his line. He worked with the maker and designed the line with his specs. Others imitated. Do not question the quality or integrity of his products. Maxim is very guarded with the information about the specs of his stuff because he has had other vendors including one you mentioned steal his ideas, sources and products. Please before you bad mouth someone find out the facts.


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## sachem allison

Well, I jumped the gun here and I apologize. I did not see Maxims reply and the Op's response. I just don't like it when folks make unfounded claims and unfortunately, I did it myself.


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## Andrey V

sachem allison said:


> Maxim has been on vacation and isn't around. He posted he will be gone and that is why you haven't gotten a response from him. As for the dubious nature of his Kato's be aware that he was the on that introduced Kato and that the the other sellers began selling their versions after the success of his line. He worked with the maker and designed the line with his specs. Others imitated. Do not question the quality or integrity of his products. Maxim is very guarded with the information about the specs of his stuff because he has had other vendors including one you mentioned steal his ideas, sources and products. Please before you bad mouth someone find out the facts.



I confirm it!!


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## echerub

I'm pretty sure the one vendor mentioned a few posts up hasn't stolen anything or any ideas. I've seen and handled the Katos there and they are noticeably different from the workhorse line. They are of the "standard" lower-height Kato profile as opposed to the workhorse profile. The folks who run the place were also introduced to Kato himself by one of the other makers whom they work closely with - and who praises Kato quite highly - so saying any ideas were stolen here is rather misplaced.


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## schanop

echerub said:


> I'm pretty sure the one vendor mentioned a few posts up hasn't stolen anything or any ideas. I've seen and handled the Katos there and they are noticeably different from the workhorse line. They are of the "standard" lower-height Kato profile as opposed to the workhorse profile.



Thank Len, great to hear that they are different out loud from someone who has handle them besides vendors themselves.


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## maxim

Thanks Len 

My point is also that they are very different then other Katos thats what i try to explane  
I worked with Kato quite long time on our knives, before i start to sell them. 

I think we went for 4 or 5 prototypes before i got them in the store. And it was both me and Kato that made the improvements.



echerub said:


> I'm pretty sure the one vendor mentioned a few posts up hasn't stolen anything or any ideas. I've seen and handled the Katos there and they are noticeably different from the workhorse line. They are of the "standard" lower-height Kato profile as opposed to the workhorse profile. The folks who run the place were also introduced to Kato himself by one of the other makers whom they work closely with - and who praises Kato quite highly - so saying any ideas were stolen here is rather misplaced.


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## maxim

I think it was ok for him to make that post  As i have to remind people and my self sometimes that it is totaly one man show. 
And maybe i have to make it more clear on my website 



sachem allison said:


> Well, I jumped the gun here and I apologize. I did not see Maxims reply and the Op's response. I just don't like it when folks make unfounded claims and unfortunately, I did it myself.


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## ChipB

So, want to say a few things. First, I apologize for the rather aggressive tone of my back-to-back posts early on as it regards my purchase. It was a bit late at night after a few drinks and much time spent trying to decipher which Kato I wanted to purchase and was a bit antsy. 
Second, the Kato I did buy is absolutely unreal. Still getting to know the knife (and the Shig for that matter), but my initial impression is that the Kato is indeed a better cutter than the Shig. This says a lot as my Kato is a 210 and my Shig Kasumi is a 240 and I have a strong preference for larger format knives. While the Kato is a better cutter, I can't yet say it is the better knife as the Shig seems like a more complex, nuanced blade which is considerably lighter. That said, I'm so impressed with the Kato in 210, that I'm going to be grabbing one in 240 in very short order.
Third, Maksim, you have been very knid in your responses to my posts and provided great color into how your line of knives differ from Kato's own production. Indeed, owning a non-workhorse, I can certainly verify that the stat line at least is very different from your spec knives. 
Fourth, to the fanboys that want to jump down my throat, I'm curious what is was about anything I posted prior that was "uninformed"? Knowing that there are multiple iterations of a bladesmith's knives out there, would I not be remiss in performing my due diligence on the differences before making a purchase? Indeed, if during that diligence process, I could not receive concrete answers to some of the questions I have about a highly modified version of a master's work, would I be foolish to decide to trust the master's own design developed over decades of refinement instead of a few anonymous guys on a forum?


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## labor of love

ChipB said:


> Fourth, to the fanboys that want to jump down my throat, I'm curious what is was about anything I posted prior that was "uninformed"? Knowing that there are multiple iterations of a bladesmith's knives out there, would I not be remiss in performing my due diligence on the differences before making a purchase? Indeed, if during that diligence process, I could not receive concrete answers to some of the questions I have about a highly modified version of a master's work, would I be foolish to decide to trust the master's own design developed over decades of refinement instead of a few anonymous guys on a forum?


You started a thread because you wanted to know the differences between the Kato lines. We had an intelligent discussion where your questions were answered. I feel that perhaps next time if you can try to be more respectful to Maxim and others that you too will also be met with respect. You also used quotation marks around uniformed but no one accused you of being "uniformed"?
Hopefully you understand by now that the different Kato lines are just that, different. One line isnt any better than the other but information was revealed in this thread to make your decision making easier which is what you wanted. If you want to pick up more non workhorses Katos thats your decision.


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## labor of love

Also I would like to say that I think "highly modified version of a master's work" is very misleading. As discussed earlier the Workhorse is entirely different in grind, performance, hardness, steel and profile. Its just a different knife altogether. Seeing as "a few anonymous guys on a forum" doesnt sway your decision any, let me ask you this....Do you think this knife would be in production if the bladesmith didnt stand behind his work?


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## labor of love

"uninformed" not uniformed. sorry.


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## Andrey V

labor of love said:


> You started a thread because you wanted to know the differences between the Kato lines. We had an intelligent discussion where your questions were answered. I feel that perhaps next time if you can try to be more respectful to Maxim and others that you too will also be met with respect. You also used quotation marks around uniformed but no one accused you of being "uniformed"?
> Hopefully you understand by now that the different Kato lines are just that, different. One line isnt any better than the other but information was revealed in this thread to make your decision making easier which is what you wanted. If you want to pick up more non workhorses Katos thats your decision.



Very good and intelligent answer indeed. 
The matter is who has modified the knives . Not Maxim, not you, not me. Kato-san himself. . Don't you suppose that Kato-san had done his other lines following somebody's requests?? Finally, he sells his knives to the clients, dealers, to get his money for this job. Maksim has asked him to improve it due to expectations, why not to believe that he stands behind this product?? He has his Kanji on it, so this is his product, done by great Craftman. And everybody is free to agree or disagree with improvements, to get or not to get it, as labor of love said very correctly.


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## Andrey V

The answer was adressed to ChipB, of course


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## ChipB

Andrey V said:


> The matter is who has modified the knives . Not Maxim, not you, not me. Kato-san himself. . Don't you suppose that Kato-san had done his other lines following somebody's requests?? Finally, he sells his knives to the clients, dealers, to get his money for this job. Maksim has asked him to improve it due to expectations, why not to believe that he stands behind this product?? He has his Kanji on it, so this is his product, done by great Craftman. And everybody is free to agree or disagree with improvements, to get or not to get it, as labor of love said very correctly.



So, this is a very good point and well taken. That said, to call it an improvement may be a bit of a stretch, and exactly what I was getting at. If it were such an improvement, why not begin to alter his signature design to more closely resemble the custom run? Not that I doubt Maksim when it comes to understanding the character of what a bladesmith is doing and, along with the smith, altering the design such that it meets certain demands that the buyer may have, but I tend to think a highly regarded swordsmith and bladesmith with the pedigree of Kato may know a thing or two about making knives and, assuming a custom run will be an improvement over the original is basically saying you know more about what makes a great knife than the smith. 
It is also worth mentioning that Kato will do knives made to specification for customers of distributors, including thinner blades etc. So assuming that because he produced them, makes them the epitome of his personal style and craft probably isn't correct.


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## James

ChipB said:


> So, this is a very good point and well taken. That said, to call it an improvement may be a bit of a stretch, and exactly what I was getting at. If it were such an improvement, why not begin to alter his signature design to more closely resemble the custom run? Not that I doubt Maksim when it comes to understanding the character of what a bladesmith is doing and, along with the smith, altering the design such that it meets certain demands that the buyer may have, but I tend to think a highly regarded swordsmith and bladesmith with the pedigree of Kato may know a thing or two about making knives and, assuming a custom run will be an improvement over the original is basically saying you know more about what makes a great knife than the smith.
> It is also worth mentioning that Kato will do knives made to specification for customers of distributors, including thinner blades etc. So assuming that because he produced them, makes them the epitome of his personal style and craft probably isn't correct.



It seems like the only way you'll be satisfied is if you try a JNS Kato and compare it with the one you got from the other vendor. Kato's standard line may be geared to perform one way, while Maxim's line has some changes which he feels are an improvement. Different strokes for different folks. 

Anyways, if I were to get one, I'd get it from JNS. I trust Maxim enough to believe that his Kato, for me, would perform better than the standard one. Plus, JNS ones are cheaper and sport a sexier steel.


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## labor of love

The wording of "improvement" was just an expressed opinion. Im not sure why you believe the Workhorse line was entirely Maxims brainchild. And Im not sure why youre having a hard time putting your head around the idea that a blade smith cant make 2 entirely different yet awesome knife lines with different steels, heat treats, grinds, profiles etc etc. If a blade smith accepts the custom work at all it is only because he feels he can make a great knife with whatever the custom specs are, alot of custom work/custom specs are denied very often.


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## ChipB

labor of love said:


> You started a thread because you wanted to know the differences between the Kato lines. We had an intelligent discussion where your questions were answered. I feel that perhaps next time if you can try to be more respectful to Maxim and others that you too will also be met with respect. You also used quotation marks around uniformed but no one accused you of being "uniformed"?
> Hopefully you understand by now that the different Kato lines are just that, different. One line isnt any better than the other but information was revealed in this thread to make your decision making easier which is what you wanted. If you want to pick up more non workhorses Katos thats your decision.



Look, I do appreciate the fact that I got a bit aggressive and apologized for that and will apologize again. That said, my questions, until Maksim joined the discussion, were largely not answered. All I could glean was that the workhorse is heavy but still performs well. No one could say, beyond selection of steel, how the knife differed except for Maksim.
You're right that it is unlikely one line of Kato knives would be seen as clearly superior to the next, but that really wasn't my point at all. The workhorse is a custom run and , as such, is a departure from what I'm assuming the smith thinks is an optimal design for general production. Do the people who own the workhorse love it? Yes. That I had no doubt when I started the thread. The problem is, I think only one person who responded, much later in the thread, had even handled a Kato that wasn't a workhorse. All I wanted to know, given that the workhorse is indeed custom, was how it stacks up to Kato's non-custom knives. It would be like a certain Ferrari retailer deciding that they wanted a spec version of a Ferrari F458. Would it probably be a great car? Sure. Is it better than the nearly hand built car from the factory? I'd be skeptical which is only fare.


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## ChipB

James said:


> It seems like the only way you'll be satisfied is if you try a JNS Kato and compare it with the one you got from the other vendor. Kato's standard line may be geared to perform one way, while Maxim's line has some changes which he feels are an improvement. Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> Anyways, if I were to get one, I'd get it from JNS. I trust Maxim enough to believe that his Kato, for me, would perform better than the standard one. Plus, JNS ones are cheaper and sport a sexier steel.



I'm not dissatisfied at all with anything. Just an opinion. But you're right. Only way to know is try both


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## ChipB

labor of love said:


> The wording of "improvement" was just an expressed opinion. Im not sure why you believe the Workhorse line was entirely Maxims brainchild. And Im not sure why youre having a hard time putting your head around the idea that a blade smith cant make 2 entirely different yet awesome knife lines with different steels, heat treats, grinds, profiles etc etc. If a blade smith accepts the custom work at all it is only because he feels he can make a great knife with whatever the custom specs are, alot of custom work/custom specs are denied very often.



Jesus dude. I'm not trying to piss on your dead grandmother. I fully appreciate that a knife maker can handle different styles of knives. I'm also not saying that the workhorse is better or worse, but was trying to explain my hesitancy in purchasing one vs. one of Kato's own without more detail or an objective view on what separates them. Maksim did provide a lot of color but, he is the designer and retailer so not completely objective, and I'd already pulled the trigger at that point.


----------



## labor of love

ChipB said:


> Look, I do appreciate the fact that I got a bit aggressive and apologized for that and will apologize again. That said, my questions, until Maksim joined the discussion, were largely not answered. All I could glean was that the workhorse is heavy but still performs well. No one could say, beyond selection of steel, how the knife differed except for Maksim.
> You're right that it is unlikely one line of Kato knives would be seen as clearly superior to the next, but that really wasn't my point at all. The workhorse is a custom run and , as such, is a departure from what I'm assuming the smith thinks is an optimal design for general production. Do the people who own the workhorse love it? Yes. That I had no doubt when I started the thread. The problem is, I think only one person who responded, much later in the thread, had even handled a Kato that wasn't a workhorse. All I wanted to know, given that the workhorse is indeed custom, was how it stacks up to Kato's non-custom knives. It would be like a certain Ferrari retailer deciding that they wanted a spec version of a Ferrari F458. Would it probably be a great car? Sure. Is it better than the nearly hand built car from the factory? I'd be skeptical which is only fare.



I feel like youre answering your question/concerns here. If you want a knife that embodies purely the blade smiths vision for a knife then maybe you should go straight to the source or atleast as close as possible. And I understand wanting user feedback before investing that much cash in a new knife, I also try and do the same thing. Good luck in finding feedback on that. You may want to start a different thread outside of this sub forum though(Im not being snarky, and yes I realize the mods probably moved this thread to this subforum as workhorse pertains to JNS). And perhaps check several other forums as well.


----------



## ChipB

Labor, you're right on the thread move and the general intent of the thread. I did re-read what I wrote early on and was not proud of the tone and understand that isn't the best way to go about starting a decent dialogue on the subject. Appreciate the suggestion and absolutely do plan on grabbing a workhorse as I think Y.Fujiwara knives are pretty absurd and the iteration produced by JNS is completely unique to say the least. Not to mention, Kato is what, 75? how much longer will any of us be able to grab his stuff?


----------



## ChipB

Building off the my last post, let me start fresh with you guys. I love what Maksim has done in promoting some of the best bladesmiths in japan for consumption by a Western audience. I'd love to know more about the genesis of the Workhorse line designed by Kato and how it evolved from his basic line to meet the requirements of JNS clientele. Only briefly owning a Kato in 210, albeit non-Workhorse, I am tending to agree that his knives outperform Shigefusa Kasumi in cutting ability, though they are really two very different knives. I'd love to stack a Kato against the heavier Kitaeji which sports a pattern that is pretty close to Kato, Mizuno etc. 
Again, I apologize for the antagonistic, then defensive tone. The intent of the thread didn't start that way and really devolved because I got drunk and testy.


----------



## ChipB

I did grab another standard Kato W#2 in 240 yesterday, only because I was so immensely impressed with the 210 and didn't want to mess with a good thing. I imagine that is how many Workhorse owners feel. I am very excited to try a Workhorse. I think though, based on need, my first foray into the line might with the 270 suji. Really need a slicer upgrade (still clinging to a Global) as I put one to work anywhere between 1-3x per week. I will keep my fingers crossed that it remains in stock!


----------



## Chefu

I got one of Maxim's western Kato with the white ebony handle. They are much thinner than the wa version. I really want to pick up another in wa with the thicker blade to try. It's funny about the western Kato. I've got several knives that do many things better than the Kato but I still find myself reaching for it over and over. I just like how it feels / looks / and how it cuts product. It has one of those intangible qualities that just draws me to use it.......


----------



## Matus

There has been some heated discussion going on here, but it seems like things got sorted out, so let me add one question on the Kato workhorse topic. 

Whether WA or western - it seems that all 240 Kato gyutos weight some 270g. What I would like to ask is - how do you guys find the weight? My current gyuto is ca 250g (it went back to be thinned so it will probably loose a bit of weight) and find that definitely on the heavy side. I would actually love to try Kato one day, but fear the weight would be too much ...


----------



## labor of love

Matus said:


> There has been some heated discussion going on here, but it seems like things got sorted out, so let me add one question on the Kato workhorse topic.
> 
> Whether WA or western - it seems that all 240 Kato gyutos weight some 270g. What I would like to ask is - how do you guys find the weight? My current gyuto is ca 250g (it went back to be thinned so it will probably loose a bit of weight) and find that definitely on the heavy side. I would actually love to try Kato one day, but fear the weight would be too much ...


The 240mm workhorse is about as heavy as I would ever want a gyuto to weigh. I used a 270mm Kato for awhile and I just couldnt adapt to its weight.


----------



## Chefu

Matus said:


> There has been some heated discussion going on here, but it seems like things got sorted out, so let me add one question on the Kato workhorse topic.
> 
> Whether WA or western - it seems that all 240 Kato gyutos weight some 270g. What I would like to ask is - how do you guys find the weight? My current gyuto is ca 250g (it went back to be thinned so it will probably loose a bit of weight) and find that definitely on the heavy side. I would actually love to try Kato one day, but fear the weight would be too much ...



Both western and wa weigh in at around 270. The spine on my western is 2.95 mm above the heel / 2.15 half way down / and 1.45 about 1 cm from the tip. It has a full tang and western handle. The knife is still blade forward heavy. With that said it just feels good when using it. It certainly heavy by most Japanese knife standards but it feels like it can take on just about anything!


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## matt79

@matus
Concerning the weight of the kato workhorse i personally adapted really quickly to the weight it felt awkward maybe for two or three days and has been an absolute joy to use since.There is no Gyuto i prefer using for a prep intense day.I also dont think the difference between a 250g and a270g would be that different.Before the Kato i was mainly using a heiji 240mm which is about 210g.I also have shig 240mm which weighs about the same as the heiji and a kagekiyo which is super light(170g i think).I love all of them for different reason but If i had to choose to keep only one,it would definitely be the kato.If you want to test it pm me seeing your in the germany i could send it over to you and you can give it a spin for a week or two.


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## Matus

matt79, that is very generous from you. You will soon have a PM


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## ChipB

Matus said:


> There has been some heated discussion going on here, but it seems like things got sorted out, so let me add one question on the Kato workhorse topic.
> 
> Whether WA or western - it seems that all 240 Kato gyutos weight some 270g. What I would like to ask is - how do you guys find the weight? My current gyuto is ca 250g (it went back to be thinned so it will probably loose a bit of weight) and find that definitely on the heavy side. I would actually love to try Kato one day, but fear the weight would be too much ...



Hey Matus, non-workhorse Kato are a bit lighter. My 210 in W#2 is about 200 grams or so and the 240 I have coming is around 225 grams. Not light by any stretch. Something I noticed which is a bit quirky, the 210 in W#2 is actually a shade heavier than the 210 Workhorse, but the 240 in W#2 is a good bit lighter. Makes me want to try the workhorse side by side with the W#2 blades even more.

I had the same reservation about weight as you which is one of the main reasons I went with the W#2 versions. Hoping I can mess around with a workhorse in 240mm sooner rather than later. Maybe I can swing by Sachem's joint once the 240 gets back from a re-handle to compare the two versions and report back


----------



## Matus

ChipB - did you get your Kato knives from Maksim or elsewhere?


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## ChipB

Got them elsewhere. Tosho Knife Arts carries the W#2 as does the store that shall not be named.


----------



## ChipB

Matus, one thing worth noting, those retailers also are about 25% more expensive than JNS (though with VAT, as you are in the EU, it might even out a bit). That's another thing that made the decision very hard for me. That's quite a premium to pay for familiarity.


----------



## ChipB

Not sure if any of you guys have checked out Masakage's Kujira line, but they've piqued my interest as well. I love the edge profile on Masakage and find them to be pretty close to Kato in that regard (at least the edge profile on my Shimo was very similar). The Kujira is definitely a heavier knife as well. Think the 240 clocks in around 220 grams. Can't seem to find anyone who has a lot of experience with this line though.


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## maxim

hmm i think by now with soooo many of my blogs, videos, info on website, i have explained enough but apparently not  

Kato workhorse is just high end Kato knife. Upgraded FF, upgraded steel (more expensive steel was used), more handmade process and just more care been taken when making it. Thats about it 
small profile changes was made but that was due to the sizes of knives etc 
It is like buying KU knife or Kasumi knife etc etc. 

Don't see really why so many confusion


----------



## ChipB

maxim said:


> hmm i think by now with soooo many of my blogs, videos, info on website, i have explained enough but apparently not
> 
> Kato workhorse is just high end Kato knife. Upgraded FF, upgraded steel (more expensive steel was used), more handmade process and just more care been taken when making it. Thats about it
> small profile changes was made but that was due to the sizes of knives etc
> It is like buying KU knife or Kasumi knife etc etc.
> 
> 
> Don't see really why so many confusion



Thanks Maksim and your videos are great! I think the confusion just gets introduced when looking at the weight on the 240 and 270 vs. the lighter versions of his standard knives. Your answers before were very helpful. I'd also add, that it seems as though your Workhorse line is the most widely used (at least on this side of The Pond) so it is very difficult to find an unbiased impressions of the Workhorse vs. a standard W#2 from a customer. 

Based upon what you have said, it sounds like the same sort of distinction that is drawn between the various Teruyasu Fujiwara lines. But TF knives are more widely distributed across all of his lines which makes it much easier to get a sense for what delineates them.

Again, thanks for the response, and sorry for the tone I set earlier on in the post.


----------



## Matus

No confusion at all, Maksim. I am just trying to find a last excuse NOT to buy a workhorse Kato from you  It is even worse that you seem to have some available most of the time


----------



## Andrey V

Matus said:


> No confusion at all, Maksim. I am just trying to find a last excuse NOT to buy a workhorse Kato from you  It is even worse that you seem to have some available most of the time



Don't even try, Matus, just take it!


----------



## Andrey V

A kuroushi Gyuto would be great. 240. 
Kato knives are damn reactive, this is the only problem they have. But Kuro Nakiri and Santoku not. I suppose such a Gyuto would be a hammer!


----------



## matt79

to be honest i dont think the kato workhorse i have is extremely reactice, not as reactive as shig kasumi or even gesshin kagekiyo


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## ChipB

With matt79 on this one. While the cladding will respond to certain ingredients OOTB, it doesn't have the same violent reactivity of other iron clad knives I have. The worst I've seen is a Masakage Shimo which produced sludge and foul odor when it touched pretty much anything early on. My Shig was also more reactive when it comes to ingredient discoloration etc. than the Kato. Regardless, I force a patina no matter what on iron cladding now. Think users that say reactivity isn't an issue, and a damp wipe followed by a dry wipe during cutting keeps the blade pristine, are either cutting proteins first, non-reactive ingredients for the knife in question, or are completely full of it. Own at least five iron clad blades from different makers now, and if, early cuts are done on certain onions or sweeter fruits, there is nothing that will stop an immediate formation of a brown patina on the iron upon contact.


----------



## James

ChipB said:


> With matt79 on this one. While the cladding will respond to certain ingredients OOTB, it doesn't have the same violent reactivity of other iron clad knives I have. The worst I've seen is a Masakage Shimo which produced sludge and foul odor when it touched pretty much anything early on. My Shig was also more reactive when it comes to ingredient discoloration etc. than the Kato. Regardless, I force a patina no matter what on iron cladding now. Think users that say reactivity isn't an issue, and a damp wipe followed by a dry wipe during cutting keeps the blade pristine, are either cutting proteins first, non-reactive ingredients for the knife in question, or are completely full of it. Own at least five iron clad blades from different makers now, and if, early cuts are done on certain onions or sweeter fruits, there is nothing that will stop an immediate formation of a brown patina on the iron upon contact.



just curious, have you tried a light ferric chloride/vinegar etch? That may help things along


----------



## ChipB

James, haven't tried an etch yet. But am planning to. No particular reason why I haven't yet, and probably should've as it is the more efficient solution. Dicked around with various bizarre methods using different proteins, blade temperature etc. to achieve a specific hue with varying degrees of success. That said, those methods take an absurdly long time and cost some coin on top of it.


----------



## nerologic

I took a chef's advice and sliced 10 lbs of onions into 1/8" ribbons with my new Shig, making sure to contact the full blade with the onions as it sliced. Don't dilly dally, do it fast and steadily (or you'll be there all night). It stank like sulfur at first, but that subsided. It was enough of an onslaught that the Shig built up a bulletproof patina, and a bluish one at that, no brown. I could let the juice sit on there for 30 mins (and even dry on, as a test) without any rust. That's a semi-forced patina, I'd say, since I'm a home cook and usually only need 1-2 onions. I hear people paint the juice on, but I think a consistent barrage of fresh juice may be more helpful, maybe because it wipes the surface of the knife clean.

Then I made caramelized onions with the whole bucket of ribbons. That part took far more work than setting the patina. Any little bit of discoloration from the first few slices didn't make any difference, since the whole mess was going to end up deep brown anyway. And now I have both a years supply of caramelized onions and a stable blade. Win-win, I'd say (except the whole house smelled a bit funky for the evening). Anyone who wants to drop by for French onion soup, just let me know.


----------



## daveb

ChipB said:


> Think users that say reactivity isn't an issue, and a damp wipe followed by a dry wipe during cutting keeps the blade pristine, are either cutting proteins first, non-reactive ingredients for the knife in question, or are completely full of it. Own at least five iron clad blades from different makers now, and if, early cuts are done on certain onions or sweeter fruits, there is nothing that will stop an immediate formation of a brown patina on the iron upon contact.



You missed Carnegie's book?


----------



## ChipB

nerologic said:


> I took a chef's advice and sliced 10 lbs of onions into 1/8" ribbons with my new Shig, making sure to contact the full blade with the onions as it sliced. Don't dilly dally, do it fast and steadily (or you'll be there all night). It stank like sulfur at first, but that subsided. It was enough of an onslaught that the Shig built up a bulletproof patina, and a bluish one at that, no brown. I could let the juice sit on there for 30 mins (and even dry on, as a test) without any rust. That's a semi-forced patina, I'd say, since I'm a home cook and usually only need 1-2 onions. I hear people paint the juice on, but I think a consistent barrage of fresh juice may be more helpful, maybe because it wipes the surface of the knife clean.



You can clean a certain immediate patinas off with various acidic ingredients, and remove most visible elements of a patina after a night's work with a baking soda slurry. The entirety of the patina is usually not removed though which gives the impression that the blade is pristine but, acidization hasn't actually been fully removed, hence the erroneous assumption that fastidiously cleaning a blade after use "breaks it in" and will keep it Summer's Eve fresh. 
To your experience with onions, I have no doubt you built a strong patina. Plowed through a lot of produce and protein with my shig, and yellow seems to be the color the cladding wants to take. I'd love it if a blue patina from pounds of onions on fresh iron with that knife happened for me.


----------



## ChipB

Dave,
The book came by the apartment to say hello the other day but I was out of town. Felt really bad about missing it, but what can you do?


----------



## brainsausage

I did the onion julienne/wipe patina when I first got my Shig last fall. Hacked up about 10 quarts, and the patina set in perfectly. No discoloration/staining after the fact. Nice blue patina. Asked Jon to do a natural stone, Kasumi finish over the winter, and the patina set in even faster with the same technique, and brighter blues.


----------



## matt79

I clean the patina of my knives every night after service.When I do my prep i will leave highly reactive stuff like onions/shallots for last.By the time I get there I have a nice patina already and avoid brown onions etc. .,works with all the knives I have used so far even highly reactive ones such as shigs. I also have a couple of stainless I can use just in case.


----------



## Von blewitt

This is my Shig, my main knife for the last month, I haven't forced any patina or taken any deliberate steps to minimise patina, and I don't baby it, just wipe regularly, no brown no reactivity, the heiji Swedish carbon Gyuto i had was pretty reactive though and it took a brown patina.




[/URL][/IMG]


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## Sambal

Von blewitt said:


> This is my Shig, my main knife for the last month, I haven't forced any patina or taken any deliberate steps to minimise patina, and I don't baby it, just wipe regularly, no brown no reactivity, the heiji Swedish carbon Gyuto i had was pretty reactive though and it took a brown patina.
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]






Von B. have you noticed any difference in reactivity between the kasumi and kitaeji Shigs?

My kasumi Shig gyuto was reactive for a while but after a large batch of onions, not just cutting but rubbing the waste ends on the blade as well, it just lost its reactivity altogether. Worked well for me!


----------



## matt79

I havent got a brown patina with my shig or my heiji to be honest .The way your shig looks is pretty much the way all my carbons look after service.Then I clean them with baking soda.Love the cleaning my knives ritual at the end of service means I have survived another day, dont have to deal with any work related crap for the next 12hours and its time for cold beer


----------



## ChipB

Von blewitt said:


> This is my Shig, my main knife for the last month, I haven't forced any patina or taken any deliberate steps to minimise patina, and I don't baby it, just wipe regularly, no brown no reactivity, the heiji Swedish carbon Gyuto i had was pretty reactive though and it took a brown patina.
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]



That's an amazing patina. For the life of me, outside of more esoteric protein forcing, can't get anything other than a champagne color out of the Shig naturally. This reminds me a someone who has been building a natural patina on his Mizuno Hontanren naturally, though he is achieving some seriously striking electric blue. That said, he is working a chicken station on the line, so building a base with fresh protein.


----------



## glestain

If patina is built up, will it still get rust?


----------



## chefcomesback

glestain said:


> If patina is built up, will it still get rust?



My experience with Kato workhorse was that it wasn't as reactive as my other carbon knives , if it has patina , if you walk away after cutting something you have some time before you need to grab scotch brite, with my shig and kochi you have seconds. In short yes it will rust , not as fast I have seen from watanabe, kochi or shig 


Sent from my iPhone using Kitchen Knife Forum


----------



## JBroida

yes, if not cared for properly


----------



## Matus

Since this topic has not been discussed to death IMO, let me try 

I would like to ask whether there is a difference in performance between western and WA Kato. I am asking because there is obviously difference in the thickness of these two versions.

thanks


----------



## Andrey V

My new project in progress


Kato Dragon
The first photo: the difference between Katos: Kikuryu, Dragon, Suji
Two last were the same ( polished)- now I change it into deep gray Kasumi with Uchigumori fingerstones 
Will keep on polishing. But the change is already visible &#128540;&#128540;


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## Matus

Having Kato Dragon on loan right now - I am just wondering that once this knife will need thinning (sooner than later I guess given that the blade is not particularly thin behind the edge) - how high up the blade will one have to go - will not the dragon engraving be also affected by the thinning?

@Matt: Please do not worry, I do not intend to learn thinning on your Kato


----------



## Andrey V

Guys, i tried out a rare Kato Yanagi 330 mm...... Till that moment i was pretty sure Shigefusa is better in single bevel. He is a King. But: when i saw that beauty, looking almost like a sword, i though: OMG!!! 
Slicing fish or meat was a " brutal" pleasure. Not cutting- but SEPARATION. Scaring.... Buhhhh
Since that time I can't stop thinking of it...
I have a 240 Kato Yanagy, and a bunch of Shigefusa Yanagi from 210 to 300, ink Kitaeji.. 
But this one.........


----------



## Andrey V

This is that, BTW


----------



## orange

LOL...Andrey, you have a talent of making others, especially me, being intrigued by Katos.
I have a few shig yanagis and wanted to know about a kato yanagi. 
Now, I am sure I will have to get a kato yanagi. ^^


----------



## chinacats

Well my first Kato (long overdue) is headed my way. I am looking forward to the Workhorse--240 gyuto. :knife:


----------



## Andrey V

orange said:


> LOL...Andrey, you have a talent of making others, especially me, being intrigued by Katos.
> I have a few shig yanagis and wanted to know about a kato yanagi.
> Now, I am sure I will have to get a kato yanagi. ^^



&#128540;&#128540;&#128540;&#128077;&#128077;
The main difference in Yanagibas between them is the way you cut/feel. 
Shigefusa is very sofisticated, i would say- a golden standard. It makes the job you want him to make, it means it can and does follow your hand.it cuts there , where you want to cut.
Kato make the other job- you have the feeling, the the knife allows you to hold it, sliding through the food with a sense of separation, not cutting it. Much more aggresive. Shigefusa is a perfect tool, Kato is a beast. Not everyone can really like it- Kato needs, like a real hot mighty horse , a real man , knowing what to do with.
Kato will not forgive nothing- false angles, wrong cuts- it can chips, ( Shigefusa as well, btw). But if you know to ride........
O M G!!!!!!!
You get this crazy fun of using it, it cries out to be used, it needs respect, same respect, as Kato-san gave to the . Great tools, especially in Maksim's agreed with Kato-san version. Wild mustangs.
I've got a rare version of Shigefusa Honesuki- WOW- this is the knife which IMHO beats Kato in same version( though the Kato is bigger and has 2 bevels). Just to inform you- I'm not the crazy fan, i know the stuff, that's all. F.ex i took Deba from Shigefusa- and it's great, very fine, very sharp, really classic. 
Having tried out so many knives, having over 50 high- end knives in my collection ( to use, btw), i can separate " heaven from hell", i hope &#128526;. I just see that these 2 greatest Masters make really enjoyable stuff... Which differs from the rest. Again, in my honest opinion...


----------



## Andrey V

chinacats said:


> Well my first Kato (long overdue) is headed my way. I am looking forward to the Workhorse--240 gyuto. :knife:



240 - is a really nice size for Gyuto from Kato. All his best knives come in this size. Damascus, Kikuryu, Dragon... I have them all, they are fantastic knives. Really different from the other stuff. Quite heavy, but cut like a real Katana. Very aggresive, but without visible aggression- the only right picture i get is the Katana movement- to chance to stop it , no recall. It goes through, that's all. All Kato's knives need and deserve real good care, again like a good sword. Then they serve endless. Kato has a Katana maker's license, that's why his knives are so different. I think so. He makes them as swords, he quenches them as swords, he cools them with same sword movement. That's the style- that's the result.


----------



## orange

Andrey V said:


> &#128540;&#128540;&#128540;&#128077;&#128077;
> The main difference in Yanagibas between them is the way you cut/feel.
> Shigefusa is very sofisticated, i would say- a golden standard. It makes the job you want him to make, it means it can and does follow your hand.it cuts there , where you want to cut.
> Kato make the other job- you have the feeling, the the knife allows you to hold it, sliding through the food with a sense of separation, not cutting it. Much more aggresive. Shigefusa is a perfect tool, Kato is a beast. Not everyone can really like it- Kato needs, like a real hot mighty horse , a real man , knowing what to do with.
> Kato will not forgive nothing- false angles, wrong cuts- it can chips, ( Shigefusa as well, btw). But if you know to ride........
> O M G!!!!!!!
> You get this crazy fun of using it, it cries out to be used, it needs respect, same respect, as Kato-san gave to the . Great tools, especially in Maksim's agreed with Kato-san version. Wild mustangs.
> I've got a rare version of Shigefusa Honesuki- WOW- this is the knife which IMHO beats Kato in same version( though the Kato is bigger and has 2 bevels). Just to inform you- I'm not the crazy fan, i know the stuff, that's all. F.ex i took Deba from Shigefusa- and it's great, very fine, very sharp, really classic.
> Having tried out so many knives, having over 50 high- end knives in my collection ( to use, btw), i can separate " heaven from hell", i hope &#128526;. I just see that these 2 greatest Masters make really enjoyable stuff... Which differs from the rest. Again, in my honest opinion...



Thanks a lot again for your elaborate explanation. 
A shige's edge ootb is rather delicate. So, I tune it for my taste. Then it becomes beastly robust yet light and nimble. This is good and bad; For me I hope it has a little more weight but it is just me. I can see, for a professional, it's just perfect. 
I really look forward to Katos, hopely, in the near future. 
I'd like to feel the "separation" ^^


----------



## orange

Andrey V said:


> View attachment 25459
> 
> This is that, BTW



Andrey,

look what I found...^^
[video=youtube;CsryFuIXKsk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsryFuIXKsk[/video]


----------



## Andrey V

orange said:


> Andrey,
> 
> look what I found...^^
> [video=youtube;CsryFuIXKsk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsryFuIXKsk[/video]



That's us last Gathering. That was cool. Next one in 2 days!! Can't wait [emoji41][emoji41]


----------



## orange

Andrey V said:


> That's us last Gathering. That was cool. Next one in 2 days!! Can't wait [emoji41][emoji41]



I envy you guys. Have fun!! :doublethumbsup:
and please post lots of pictures and videos after.


----------



## HomeCook

Getting one of these is as difficult as hitting the lottery. 6am eastern standard the email went out. Half hour later when I read the email all five were sold out. The knife gods aren't happy with me I guess ;(


----------



## mark76

Half an hour? 15 minutes after I got the mail they were gone...


----------



## marc4pt0

Heck, like I said before, I never even Got the dang email


----------



## joyless

I managed to grab one, luckily i had my gmail open when i received the email 
Wondeful knife, but it came with slightly damaged handle, obviously Maksim offered to replace the handle. Great service.


----------



## marc4pt0

Good for you, you're going to really enjoy this knife for certain. And if not, let me know, I'll be glad to take it off your hands.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Looks like someone else will be enjoying it as it is in BST:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/25025-Kato-240mm-workhorse-looking-for-Kochi-240mm


----------



## jacko9

Very good thread with a lot of the answers that I have been asking in other posts. This helps to narrow down what knife I want to get next and since I have two 240 and one 210 Gyutos the only question I still wonder about is which Kato Workhorse I will get when the opportunity presents itself the 210 or 240?


----------



## DamageInc

jacko9 said:


> Very good thread with a lot of the answers that I have been asking in other posts. This helps to narrow down what knife I want to get next and since I have two 240 and one 210 Gyutos the only question I still wonder about is which Kato Workhorse I will get when the opportunity presents itself the 210 or 240?



I got both. The 210 is thinner at the tip. Better for onions. Both are great knives.


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## jacko9

DamageInc said:


> I got both. The 210 is thinner at the tip. Better for onions. Both are great knives.



My other Gyuto's are;

1) 240mm Konosuke HD2
2) 240mm Teruyasy Fujiwara Nashiji
3) 210mm Konosuke Fujiyama B#2
4) 300mm high carbon steel (45 years old from spring steel kit)

So I'm leaning toward the 210 Kato but, if a 240 becomes available first I'll try to grab that.

Jack


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## DamageInc

The good thing with Katos are that they straight up sell themselves if you happen to not like them. That's why I wasn't worried dropping all that cash for a 240. But I won't be selling mine any time soon.


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## jacko9

I did get the Kato Workhorse 210 Gyuto and I like it a lot!!! It has become my go to knife almost every day unless I'm cutting large produce then I go to my 240 knives. If a 240 Kato becomes available I'll jump on it and probably sell one of my other knives.


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