# Cutting Board Questions



## Noah (Dec 16, 2016)

Other than aesthetic reasons and utility considerations like size, are there any particularly important features of a wooden cutting board that makes it preferable for working with fine knives?

For instance does hardness of the wood really matter? Or will most any wood be soft enough compared to the hardness of your blade that it's a non-issue?

What about end grain compared to boards that are made along the length of the grain?

Etc...?

Thanks,

Noah


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## bkultra (Dec 16, 2016)

Look for a hardwood that produces edible nuts or sap... these usually are ideal for cutting boards (walnut, maple,cherry, mahogany). End grain is more forgiving on knives when compared to edge grain. You also want to make sure the wood has tight pores.


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## Nemo (Dec 16, 2016)

bkultra said:


> Look for a hardwood that produces edible nuts or sap... these usually are ideal for cutting boards (walnut, maple,cherry, mahogany). End grain is more forgiving on knives when compared to edge grain. You also want to make sure the wood has tight pores.



Not many native Australian hardwoods produce anything edible (by humans- koalas don't seem to mind). Indeed, swallowing too much eucalyptus oil (comes from the leaves) is pretty bad for you. Nonetheless, they make fantastic boards. I love my end grain Jarrah board.


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## Noah (Dec 16, 2016)

I would imagine eucalyptus would have some natural anti-bacterial benefits as well, no?


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## Noah (Dec 16, 2016)

bkultra said:


> Look for a hardwood that produces edible nuts or sap... these usually are ideal for cutting boards (walnut, maple,cherry, mahogany). End grain is more forgiving on knives when compared to edge grain. You also want to make sure the wood has tight pores.



Thanks.


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## Nemo (Dec 16, 2016)

Noah said:


> Other than aesthetic reasons and utility considerations like size, are there any particularly important features of a wooden cutting board that makes it preferable for working with fine knives?
> 
> For instance does hardness of the wood really matter? Or will most any wood be soft enough compared to the hardness of your blade that it's a non-issue?
> 
> ...



My understanding:
Softer wood is easier on knives but surface scores more. Some hardwoods are pretty hard.
End grain is easier on knives and scores less but is more expensive and prone to warping if you leave it wet. Get a high quality one which is burnished and sealed with feet to keep the bottom of the board elevated for ventilation. Keep it really well oiled. I use parrafin oil (a mineral oil sold in pharmacies as a laxative) wirh beeswax melted in about once a week. Feel free to spend 10 times as much on proprietary board oil though.


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## Noah (Dec 16, 2016)

Nemo said:


> Feel free to spend 10 times as much on proprietary board oil though.



Oooo, there's a way I can spend 10x more? Yay! :scratchhead:


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## guari (Dec 16, 2016)

Avoid bamboo


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## Nemo (Dec 16, 2016)

Noah said:


> I would imagine eucalyptus would have some natural anti-bacterial benefits as well, no?



Honestly don't know. My understanding is that any antibacterial effects of wood are less imporant than the fact that bacteria get stuck in between the grains then die before they can get out again (as long as you wash the rest of the bacteria off the surface). FWIW, I only use my end grain board for veggies and I sanitise every few days with vinegar or lemon. Not too much science in that though.


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## Nemo (Dec 16, 2016)

Nemo said:


> Not many native Australian hardwoods produce anything edible (by humans- koalas don't seem to mind). Indeed, swallowing too much eucalyptus oil (comes from the leaves) is pretty bad for you. Nonetheless, they make fantastic boards. I love my end grain Jarrah board.



On reflection, I'm not 100% sure that the oil is only/mainly in the leaves (but the leaves certainly seem to have oil).


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## Noah (Dec 16, 2016)

Don't know about the ones you have there, but the rainbow eucalyptus we used to have near my house in Hawaii was such a beautiful tree. Never saw anything made with it though. <looks at google> Hmm, yup, pretty wood.


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## milkbaby (Dec 16, 2016)

Softer wood will be kinder to your knife edge, and the less sharpening you have to do, the longer your knife will last. But at the same time, I never pay attention to this and just use end grain boards that I liked the look of for the majority of my kitchen prepping. I use plastic for raw meat but that is a rare thing for me, and a small edge grain board for cutting cooked meat or for presentation.

I took a couple of my knives on vacation with a bunch of friends at a rental house where there were only plastic boards and they definitely dulled faster on plastic than at home on end grain wood of any type.

Oak end grain looks awesome to me, but the pores are so large. One day I'll cave and buy or make one though...


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## BorkWoodNC (Dec 16, 2016)

Here is a decent graphic that shows the difference in cutting on face grain vs end grain





You can also look up the Janka scale to get an idea of the differences in relative hardness between wood species. Although, as mentioned previously, hardness should not be the only consideration as there are differences in porosity (drop a piece of red oak in a bucket of water and watch the bubbles), allergens and irritants to also be aware of between species.


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## Noah (Dec 16, 2016)

Thank you for the very helpful information folks!


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## Nemo (Dec 16, 2016)

Noah said:


> Don't know about the ones you have there, but the rainbow eucalyptus we used to have near my house in Hawaii was such a beautiful tree. Never saw anything made with it though. <looks at google> Hmm, yup, pretty wood.



I just looked these up. They are very colorful and quite pretty. I've never seen anything like them. From Wikipedia, they are from the topics to the north of Australia and are the only eucalypts with a natural range that extends into the Northern Hemisphere.

For those who have not spent much time Downunder, the significant majority of our large trees are eucalypts and there are probably thousands of species, with many different characteristics. When we think "hardwood", we usually assume you are talking about a eucalypt. There are some stunning woods that come from them. Also some stunning tree sillhouettes. One of my favourite memories is gazing at the sunset through the Karri forests in SW Western Australia.

Interestingly eucalypts are uniquly adapted to fire. They are much more able to survive fire than most other species. One of the reasons that our bushfires are so devastating is that on hot dry days, eucalypts will release their volatile oils which has the effect of aiding the spread of fire.


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## Nemo (Dec 16, 2016)

BorkWoodNC said:


> You can also look up the Janka scale to get an idea of the differences in relative hardness between wood species. Although, as mentioned previously, hardness should not be the only consideration as there are differences in porosity (drop a piece of red oak in a bucket of water and watch the bubbles), allergens and irritants to also be aware of between species.



Are there any issues using nut bearing species in people with nut allergies?


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## BorkWoodNC (Dec 16, 2016)

Nemo said:


> Are there any issues using nut bearing species in people with nut allergies?



The general consensus is that there are no issues here. I've personally never heard of any adverse events related to this.


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## cncrouting (Dec 16, 2016)

wood with a lot of silica would be a bad choice. but those woods are not usually used in a cutting board. like ipe or desert ironwood and several others.


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## malexthekid (Dec 16, 2016)

Nemo said:


> I just looked these up. They are very colorful and quite pretty. I've never seen anything like them. From Wikipedia, they are from the topics to the north of Australia and are the only eucalypts with a natural range that extends into the Northern Hemisphere.
> 
> For those who have not spent much time Downunder, the significant majority of our large trees are eucalypts and there are probably thousands of species, with many different characteristics. When we think "hardwood", we usually assume you are talking about a eucalypt. There are some stunning woods that come from them. Also some stunning tree sillhouettes. One of my favourite memories is gazing at the sunset through the Karri forests in SW Western Australia.
> 
> Interestingly eucalypts are uniquly adapted to fire. They are much more able to survive fire than most other species. One of the reasons that our bushfires are so devastating is that on hot dry days, eucalypts will release their volatile oils which has the effect of aiding the spread of fire.



I will point out, that most of our native plants are adapted to fire... since Australia typical has two main weather patterns... Bushfire or flood (in a generalised sense).


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## paulraphael (Dec 17, 2016)

Nemo said:


> Honestly don't know. My understanding is that any antibacterial effects of wood are less imporant than the fact that bacteria get stuck in between the grains then die before they can get out again (as long as you wash the rest of the bacteria off the surface).



That's what the research says. These boards are pretty easy to wash and sanitize. Unless you cut very aggressively you can maintain the surface with a bench scraper. Wash with warm soapy water. Sanitizing is optional. I use basic restaurant sanitizer (quaternary ammonium). Spray and let dry. Vinegar and lemon kinda sorta sanitize, but there's a lot of stuff they don't kill. Most notably norovirus, which is the most common foodborne illness.


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## Noah (Dec 17, 2016)

Eeeeeew norovirus. That was going around and I was lucky enough to get in on the joy a couple of years ago.

....skip it!


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## Nemo (Dec 17, 2016)

BorkWoodNC said:


> The general consensus is that there are no issues here. I've personally never heard of any adverse events related to this.



I suspected as much. Good to know. Thanks.


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## Nemo (Dec 17, 2016)

malexthekid said:


> I will point out, that most of our native plants are adapted to fire... since Australia typical has two main weather patterns... Bushfire or flood (in a generalised sense).



You forgot drought....&#128518;

Unfortunately I'm not really joking.


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## Noah (Dec 17, 2016)

Nemo said:


> You forgot drought....&#128518;



Isn't drought just the brief transition period between flood and bushfire?


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## Nemo (Dec 17, 2016)

Noah said:


> Isn't drought just the brief transition period between flood and bushfire?



Not so breif somtimes but yeah, you got the idea.


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## malexthekid (Dec 17, 2016)

Nemo said:


> You forgot drought....&#128518;
> 
> Unfortunately I'm not really joking.



Sorry I took bushfire and drought to be a package deal..... forgot I was educating people but only giving them half the story......

Yeah it is quite scary really.... First comes the flood... then straight after that comes the drought... then the bushfires... cycle that a few times.. then flood again


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## Noah (Dec 17, 2016)

Course you realize if it were all highly habitable you wouldn't just have New South Wales, you'd have New-Entire-Britain, and the convicts would have ended up in the arctic... :sad0:


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## Nemo (Dec 17, 2016)

paulraphael said:


> Sanitizing is optional. I use basic restaurant sanitizer (quaternary ammonium). Spray and let dry. Vinegar and lemon kinda sorta sanitize, but there's a lot of stuff they don't kill. Most notably norovirus, which is the most common foodborne illness.



I haven't seen restaurant sanitiser before, although I am a home cook. I wonder if we call it something else in Australia? Or maybe I need to look in a restaurant supply store?

Does Norovirus contaminate food or is it mainly human to human (presumably feco-oral) transmission? Even if the latter, I guess you dont want to take the risk&#129298;.


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## paulraphael (Dec 17, 2016)

Nemo said:


> I haven't seen restaurant sanitiser before, although I am a home cook. I wonder if we call it something else in Australia? Or maybe I need to look in a restaurant supply store?
> 
> Does Norovirus contaminate food or is it mainly human to human (presumably feco-oral) transmission? Even if the latter, I guess you dont want to take the risk&#129298;.



Norovirus is mostly transmitted human to human, but often through food and cooking surfaces. Cook uses the bathroom, doesn't wash hands well enough, returns to kitchen and handles salad greens ... 12 hours later half the people in the restaurant want to die. There are cases of it contaminating shellfish that are exposed to sewage. This is how a norovirus outbreak shut down the Fat Duck for a week a few years ago (although in this case, I don't know what the restaurant could have done about it ... the shellfish came in contaminated and were served raw). Not sure if it contaminates food by other means.

Luckily it rarely lasts more than a day, but I imagine it can be bad news for anyone with a depressed immune situation.

Re. Sanitizer, yeah, check out a restaurant supply store. It comes as a concentrated liquid or as tablets. Some restaurants just use chlorine bleach, although it's got downsidestoxic, irritating, bleaches clothes, gradually disintegrates side towels, corrodes stainless steel, and works poorly on porous or organic surfaces (like wood).


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## Nemo (Dec 17, 2016)

Thanks Paul


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 17, 2016)

Is there any wood (except bamboo which isn't a wood by some definitions) that WON'T warp if you're a little behind on the oil and do seriously wet stuff on it (dressing blanched tomatoes, messing with citrus....)?


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## cncrouting (Dec 17, 2016)

warpage is fixed with thickness. that makes it more stable. I made a board from strips of 3/4" thick baltic birch glued face to face it was around 1" thick or a bit less with feet it bowed downward a bit. wood warps when it absorbs moisture unevenly or dries unevenly. different parts of the tree are more stable then others too. but there are always so many factors. wood can drive you nuts. customers drop off glued up panels and plywood to my shop and it can be warped the next day when it was flat when they brought it in a bamboo edge grain board should work well I have debated making one but I don't need another cutting board. plus I hate the stink of bamboo.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 18, 2016)

...Wonder how much force is in the warping, and whether one could keep a board flat by reinforcing it with bamboo or steel?


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## cncrouting (Dec 18, 2016)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> ...Wonder how much force is in the warping, and whether one could keep a board flat by reinforcing it with bamboo or steel?


If the wood can't move like it wants too it will split. wood is going to move no matter what you do unless you seal it from moisture with epoxy or heavy wax. you may be able to keep it flat with a bar but you still have to allow the wood to move. the usual way is to have slots in the bar and screws or dowels in the slots the wood is allowed to move in the slots but held flat by the bar. wood is fun but can drive you nuts.


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## paulraphael (Dec 19, 2016)

A simple fix for warping is putting rubber feet on the board. My Boardsmith board came with them; it works so well I put feet on my other biggish board. Feet let the bottom of the board dry more or less as fast as the top.


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## Nemo (Dec 19, 2016)

paulraphael said:


> A simple fix for warping is putting rubber feet on the board. My Boardsmith board came with them; it works so well I put feet on my other biggish board. Feet let the bottom of the board dry more or less as fast as the top.



+1. Makes a MASSIVE difference.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 19, 2016)

I'm hanging them anyway, what difference would the feet make?


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## Nemo (Dec 19, 2016)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> I'm hanging them anyway, what difference would the feet make?


Probably less difference than if you didn't, but with feet, it will still dry underneath while in use I guess.


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## paulraphael (Dec 19, 2016)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> I'm hanging them anyway, what difference would the feet make?



I'm surprised you get any warping if they're hanging. Unless they're hanging flat against a wall or other boards ... in which case feet could give you some separation there.


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## fatboylim (Dec 19, 2016)

paulraphael said:


> A simple fix for warping is putting rubber feet on the board. My Boardsmith board came with them; it works so well I put feet on my other biggish board. Feet let the bottom of the board dry more or less as fast as the top.



Sounds good, did you get self adhesive rubber feet?


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## daveb (Dec 19, 2016)

If you can hang them, they're not big enough.:cool2:


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## Bodine (Dec 19, 2016)

fatboylim said:


> Sounds good, did you get self adhesive rubber feet?



I found some rubber grommets at the hardware store, that screw into the wood with brass screws.
Keeps the board from moving around whatsoever.


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## Bodine (Dec 19, 2016)

cncrouting said:


> warpage is fixed with thickness. that makes it more stable.



And it works, mine is 1&1/2" thick and very stable.
I went to a local cabinet shop and had them cut me a slab of butcher block 18"x24".
Every couple of years I sand it down smooth to keep it looking nice.


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## paulraphael (Dec 19, 2016)

fatboylim said:


> Sounds good, did you get self adhesive rubber feet?



I got screw-on ones. The ones that come on Boardsmith boards are held on with stainless screws. I used regular galvanized, which are predictably rusty after a few years.


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## jljohn (Dec 19, 2016)

Basically, wood, especially end grain, is easy on the edge.


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## merlijny2k (Dec 21, 2016)

Cheap edge grain bamboo boards are indestructible indeed. Got used to that and then got an edge grain board. Left it standing on its side on a wet kitchen counter and found it all cracked . Few holes and some hot glue later the cracks have stopped developing but it looks like sh** now. I recommend getting rubber feet on the sides too. Feels much nicer than edge grain though. It's a real noticeable improvement.


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## miggus (Dec 21, 2016)

I got a question, too. How do you guys clean your end grain boards? Until now, I used relatively small boards which I carry to the sink where I clean them with detergent, rinse and dry them with a towel. Then l leave them to dry, standing upright. But many of the boards I see are really large, and thick, too. I imagine most people won't carry these to the sink every time. Do you leave them in place and simply wipe them? I'm a bit afraid that might not be enough... (I don't eat meat btw, so only veggies on my boards).


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## WildBoar (Dec 21, 2016)

I clean mine in-place. Wet towel followed by drying towel. Occasional flooding surface with white vinegar followed by wet/ dry.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 21, 2016)

I screwed lugs into the sides of the bigger ones (if they have no hanging hole) and hang them in front of lesser-used shelves on two nails...


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## Nemo (Dec 21, 2016)

WildBoar said:


> I clean mine in-place. Wet towel followed by drying towel. Occasional flooding surface with white vinegar followed by wet/ dry.



I do this after clean veggies. Sometimes lemon instead of vinegar. I wash in detergent if any concern of dirt or meat contamination, then re-oil.

Need to get some of the quaternary ammonium restaurant sanitiser.

This is obvoiusly for home use.


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## Noah (Dec 21, 2016)

Nemo said:


> Need to get some of the quaternary ammonium restaurant sanitiser.



As you may know, be a bit cautious with quaternary ammonium compounds when it comes to direct skin contact. I was a bit cavalier with them years ago and ended up with a bunch of tiny blisters and a rather irritating rash for a while on my hands.


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## Nemo (Dec 21, 2016)

Thanks for the heads up.


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## daveb (Dec 21, 2016)

I limit or try to anyway, contact with the wooden board to raw veg. For cleaning I'll use a kitchen towel and water. If protein gets it I'll rub with salt and lemon then go through re-oil process. I've a large, 1" Boos and a mid sized 2" Boardsmith, neither of which is readily carried to / from sink.


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## paulraphael (Dec 26, 2016)

The ideal way to clean is to drag it into the sink, and wash with hot soapy water. Dry it. Mist with some sanitizer and let it air dry. 

My board is pretty big (16"?) so in practice I clean it in place most of the time. A side towel with soapy water, one with clean water, and then some sanitizer.

Noah, does the sanitizer irritate your skin at woking solution, or in the concentrated form? If the dilute working solution gives you blisters, that sounds like maybe you developed a chemical sensitivity. Maybe even from contact with the concentrate.

At any rate, that's a good heads-up. The stuff is safe on food surfaces, but it's probably best to not be soaking in it.


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## gregcss (Dec 26, 2016)

I went with one large end grain board and two small edge grain boards from Catskill. I prepped them with mineral oil, soaked over a night or two, then put on boos board cream/wax. I only use for produce and cooked meat. Wipe of with wet towel or rinse under sink. So far so good.


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## jkao (Dec 26, 2016)

What boards do people usually use for raw meat?


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## milkbaby (Dec 26, 2016)

jkao said:


> What boards do people usually use for raw meat?



I use a cheap plastic board, it can go in the dishwasher no problem. And when it's totally worn out, I can cut it up to use in some other project. 

Some people like those thin plastic cutting liners and just place them over their wooden board while cutting raw meat.


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## Talim (Dec 26, 2016)

Epicurean boards for raw meat or anything that would leave a lot of liquid or juices on the board. Easy to wash and it seems like it could last a lifetime or two.


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## daveb (Dec 26, 2016)

Yep.


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## gregcss (Dec 26, 2016)

milkbaby said:


> I use a cheap plastic board, it can go in the dishwasher no problem. And when it's totally worn out, I can cut it up to use in some other project.
> 
> Some people like those thin plastic cutting liners and just place them over their wooden board while cutting raw meat.



Same here. A plastic (Polypropylene) Oxo board that I can toss in the dishwasher.


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## eddiecharete (Dec 27, 2016)

Noah said:


> Other than aesthetic reasons and utility considerations like size, are there any particularly important features of a wooden cutting board that makes it preferable for working with fine knives?
> 
> For instance does hardness of the wood really matter? Or will most any wood be soft enough compared to the hardness of your blade that it's a non-issue?
> 
> ...



Though there are no scientific evidence it is said that wooden cutting boards kill bacteria, check this link


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## paulraphael (Dec 28, 2016)

Many of the big outbreaks of food-borne illness over the last few years have been from produce ... e.coli in spinach leaves, etc.

You'd be screwed no matter what if making salad, of course, but more broadly speaking this adds to things to consider when cleaning your cutting board. Just because you're not using a board for raw meat doesn't mean it can't be a vehicle for cross-contamination. Veggie boards should be cleaned well.

I think the advantages of wood boards are that they feel good to cut on, they look nice, and they're easy to sand smooth if the surface gets carved up. The advantage of plastic boards is that they're dishwasher safe. Neither has proven to be substantially safer in day-to-day use. They both need appropriate cleaning and attention. Not all the research is in perfect agreement, but if you look at the most thorough studies, the general consensus is that wood and plastic are about even. Buy whichever one you like, and learn how to maintain it safely.


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## paulraphael (Dec 29, 2016)

Here's a questionconventional wisdom says that poly boards can't be sanded when they get carved up. They'll melt. The manufacturers often repeat this. Has anyone figured out a reasonable way to refinish them? Someone in another forum said he'd figured out how to sand his poly boards, and that it was no trouble. But I don't remember his method.


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## cncrouting (Dec 29, 2016)

paulraphael said:


> Here's a questionconventional wisdom says that poly boards can't be sanded when they get carved up. They'll melt. The manufacturers often repeat this. Has anyone figured out a reasonable way to refinish them? Someone in another forum said he'd figured out how to sand his poly boards, and that it was no trouble. But I don't remember his method.


you could sand them or run them through a planer. I have done that many times. but the problem is that the board needs texture on it. I discovered this when I had some hdpe left over and I made a board out of it. the food slid off of it. so without texture it is worthless. a really course textured sandpaper way work. I just tested it with some 40 grit on my random orbit sander worked great nice texture maybe better then the original. but it would need to be flattened one way or the other first and by hand would be a lot of work.


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## paulraphael (Dec 30, 2016)

cncrouting said:


> you could sand them or run them through a planer. I have done that many times. but the problem is that the board needs texture on it. I discovered this when I had some hdpe left over and I made a board out of it. the food slid off of it. so without texture it is worthless. a really course textured sandpaper way work. I just tested it with some 40 grit on my random orbit sander worked great nice texture maybe better then the original. but it would need to be flattened one way or the other first and by hand would be a lot of work.



Interesting! So it's just an old husband's tale that the polyethylene melts? 

What would happen if you took a carved-up board and just ran the sander with 40-grit paper over the whole thing? Could you sand out the grooves, keep it flat enough, and get texture in one step?


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## cncrouting (Dec 30, 2016)

paulraphael said:


> Interesting! So it's just an old husband's tale that the polyethylene melts?
> 
> What would happen if you took a carved-up board and just ran the sander with 40-grit paper over the whole thing? Could you sand out the grooves, keep it flat enough, and get texture in one step?


well it can melt but it depends on how you sand it. if it is kept moving and a course grit it seems fine. but if it is a high speed belt it may melt it. I used a random oribit sander and 40 grit is not going to add much heat. I used my wood thickness planer on it with no problems at all. it can melt if things are dull though. or if you dwell in one spot too long. it is a low temp plastic. usually when I run it through the planer it stays flat but thats been 3/4" thick. 1/2" stuff may not. any material where you take one face off creates uneven tension and can warp.


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## jacko9 (Dec 28, 2019)

milkbaby said:


> Softer wood will be kinder to your knife edge, and the less sharpening you have to do, the longer your knife will last. But at the same time, I never pay attention to this and just use end grain boards that I liked the look of for the majority of my kitchen prepping. I use plastic for raw meat but that is a rare thing for me, and a small edge grain board for cutting cooked meat or for presentation.
> 
> I took a couple of my knives on vacation with a bunch of friends at a rental house where there were only plastic boards and they definitely dulled faster on plastic than at home on end grain wood of any type.
> 
> Oak end grain looks awesome to me, but the pores are so large. One day I'll cave and buy or make one though...



Get White Oak for smaller tighter pore size. Red Oak is pretty open structure and with a very clean end cuts you can blow bubbles through short sections of red oak.


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## jacko9 (Dec 28, 2019)

I have used a RO sander on my plastic boards but you need to sand both sides evenly or they warp (heck they warp most of the time anyway). I've been replacing my plastic boards.


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