# Guided sharpening



## suntravel (Sep 22, 2019)

After about 40 years of freehand sharpening, and some trys with Gatco or Edge Pro wich were not better or as convinent to use like sharpening on bench stones, i made a guided system build after an invention of an russian knife grinder...



























The movements are the same as grinding freehand, but this takes out any wobble, way faster then freehand, because every stroke hits the edge, more precision on the angle, and with the pressure control from the spring you can sharpen with almost no pressure on the egde. Removes any problems with burrs right from the stone and gives a signifantly longer lasting edge without removing the joy of sharpening on bench stones.

Regards

Uwe


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## kayman67 (Sep 22, 2019)

I've used something similar maybe 2 years ago. Sharp edges, true even bevels, but I didn't like it. I don't like anything fixed over freehand sharpening for kitchen use. I think I have tried anything possible. I usually do more than just the very edge and that's the reason. Also, I don't struggle getting a good even edge. 
But I'm glad someone sees and understands that a proper edge build lasts longer. And a system like this could help a lot of people.


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## suntravel (Sep 22, 2019)

well i am testing the results after shaprening with an Laser Goniometer, or a 3d Mitutoyo machine...

https://sharpeningtool.eu/de/catalog/accessories

You would be suprised what comes out freehand in comparison to guided ....

... but the main benefit is the perssure control, way less pressure than possible freehand 

To be not to theoretical, i was convinced to use guides sharpening by an Pro Chef, because his knifes lasts a lot longer after using a guided system and i could not beat him freehand 

Regards

Uwe


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## Benuser (Sep 22, 2019)

How about thinning? And how can you get a convexed bevel?


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## suntravel (Sep 22, 2019)

Thinning ist best by freehand (on the beltgrinder) for me, but also possible with the system, as convex, just set the high and low angle with the stop screws and wobble around beetwen the stops 

Regards

Uwe


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## Benuser (Sep 22, 2019)

Thanks Uwe! What is the lowest angle the system allows?


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## suntravel (Sep 22, 2019)

Benuser said:


> Thanks Uwe! What is the lowest angle the system allows?



flat, so 0° up to 35°

but for single mikrobevel on Debas would be better if i have made it to 45°

Regards

Uwe


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## kayman67 (Sep 22, 2019)

suntravel said:


> well i am testing the results after shaprening with an Laser Goniometer, or a 3d Mitutoyo machine...
> 
> https://sharpeningtool.eu/de/catalog/accessories
> 
> ...



I know a proper edge lasts longer. I've been saying it for a long time, but I was rather alone in a game where most people don't trouble themselves with kitchen knives that much. We might seem like a lot of people here, but in real life things are a lot different.
It is doable by hand as well.
If I were to use this, I would do some freehand first and finish on this. A good maintenance routine might be possible on a fix system, but makes little sense to me to waste time and not gain anything. At the end of the day, for kitchen knives, I would not want to use any fixed system. After using them. I'm not dismissing anything by default. I always took my time for this, months, different knives, pro environment and so on.

This being said, I understand the advantages you have and that I acknowledge. There is one that's really important and most people are not even aware of. With this system every edge has a high probability of starting fresh. While with free sharpening most people induce metal fatigue to some degree by the time they are done and thus different problems while cutting. Add to this other factors and I really understand your point here.


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## Matus (Sep 22, 2019)

I actually had a chance to test the beta version of this system a few years back - obviously further improvements of the details were made after that. It was interesting. The feel during sharpening was VERY different to using the same stones free hand. I think that it would be hard to argue that ability to keep a pre-defined angle would be detrimental to the final result. For me it felt strange to attach and detach knife to change sides for every stone (not a problem, just did not enjoy doing it). 

If one were to look for technical limitations, than I can think of 2: (1) constant sharpening angle along the whole blade is not always what one is looking for (but yet, most of the time it is - give or take) and (2) - in regard to natural stones - one need to make sure, that the surface of the stone is plane-parallel to the base.

I did not consider getting such a system mainly because it takes away the joy of learning to do something new with my own hands. Getting a good edge freehand on stones has a learning curve. Plus I like the feel and feedback when sharpening knives.

I can imagine that such a system would be excellent for knifemakers - in particular when it comes to outdoor and pocket knives (where buyers care most about cutting paper napkins and having super even, polished edge bevel) where it would be next to impossible to get a clean, even result without a jig of some sort.

I think it is fair to say, that it is probably the most though-out and quality made sharpening jig out there which makes the well known mass products look like toys.


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## nutmeg (Sep 22, 2019)

Nice machine and pictures!
I used to try a similar one at Bastl's place and the results were day and night with what I could reach by free hand! The part of the blade where it was the most obvious was at the tip. A good cutting tip is not easy to get by free hand.

Like for photography I like manual focus over auto focus. I guess the talent comes from the motivation to do things and after time, get better. (Ok, some guys use their camera in full manual and adjust the shutter speed by themselves but this is a level I won't reach this next decade!)

So I can't see such a machine as main part of the process but sometimes I'd like to add it when I need to do a specific job.
I'm thinking about setting a grind on a honyaki for example. Because after that the Jnat finisher only follows the grind and can't change the geometry of the hard/indestructible metal.
But is it possible to apply say 10-15 kg pressure on the stone with your machine?

In an other hand, knives geometry are always from poor to very good but never perfect so I like being flexible and find strategies to get the best geometry my hands and eyes can give but without removing to much meat.
The blade near the heel for example is often over ground or has a funky grind compared to the rest of the blade. If I set the same angle on the whole blade I should remove a lot of metal. By free hand I can leave an angle that slightly changes over the blade length.

Anyway, if I had a system like yours, I would definitely use use it with good conscience.


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## Benuser (Sep 22, 2019)

Matus said:


> I actually had a chance to test the beta version of this system a few years back - obviously further improvements of the details were made after that. It was interesting. The feel during sharpening was VERY different to using the same stones free hand. I think that it would be hard to argue that ability to keep a pre-defined angle would be detrimental to the final result. For me it felt strange to attach and detach knife to change sides for every stone (not a problem, just did not enjoy doing it).
> 
> If one were to look for technical limitations, than I can think of 2: (1) constant sharpening angle along the whole blade is not always what one is looking for (but yet, most of the time it is - give or take) and (2) - in regard to natural stones - one need to make sure, that the surface of the stone is plane-parallel to the base.
> 
> ...


How easy is it to change angles? As far as I understand, that isn't that easy with other jig systems what made them far from simple at use with asymmetric blades.


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## suntravel (Sep 23, 2019)

Adjusting the angle ist done by the two screws, to change from 17,5 to 18° i need maybe 3 seconds.

Applying pressure ist the same like freehand, push the blande down with the fingertips.

But for sharpening single bevel knives i use the jig only to set a mikrobevel as last step, anything else is better done freehand.

Regards

Uwe


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