# Rust prevention whist using whetstones



## Leo Barr (Jul 17, 2019)

What cheap chemical (that is not harsh on skin) can I add to my sharpening water to retard rust when sharpening Aogami or Sirogami steels rust appear when a long time is spent thinning & flattening blades whist using either natural or synthetic stones? I sharpen daily in different kitchens so cheap & mild is a must.


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## Lotmom (Jul 17, 2019)

A small amount of baking soda may help, but I think it would be better just to sharpen then remove the rust after?


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## Leo Barr (Jul 17, 2019)

I read somewhere there is another chemical apart from baking soda I don’t wish to spoil any finish I have achieved with naturals by treating any rust after sharpening I wish to retard the onslaught of rust in the first place. 
It occurs mostly when flattening hollows on new knives or spending time thinning when a knife has not been thinned behind the edge.


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## Lotmom (Jul 17, 2019)

Leo Barr said:


> I read somewhere there is another chemical apart from baking soda I don’t wish to spoil any finish I have achieved with naturals by treating any rust after sharpening I wish to retard the onslaught of rust in the first place.
> It occurs mostly when flattening hollows on new knives or spending time thinning when a knife has not been thinned behind the edge.


ah. that makes sense. Well, you could also try a very small amount of ultrafine zinc powder. I have no idea if it'll work for sure, but I know that on ships zinc blocks are hung from the hull to act as sacrificial anodes, helping to prevent rust on the hull. Just spewing some ideas as they come.
That being said, Im not sure if your naturals will appreciate very fine soft metal..


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## ojisan (Jul 17, 2019)

Leo Barr said:


> I read somewhere there is another chemical apart from baking soda



Sodium Carbonate (washing soda)?
It's a bit aggressive to skin than baking soda.


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## Leo Barr (Jul 17, 2019)

Lotmom said:


> ah. that makes sense. Well, you could also try a very small amount of ultrafine zinc powder. I have no idea if it'll work for sure, but I know that on ships zinc blocks are hung from the hull to act as sacrificial anodes, helping to prevent rust on the hull. Just spewing some ideas as they come.
> That being said, Im not sure if your naturals will appreciate very fine soft metal..


This is to stop electrolysis the anodes are attacked rather than the hull - interesting thought but the rust is probable not an electrolytic reaction.


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## Leo Barr (Jul 17, 2019)

ojisan said:


> Sodium Carbonate (washing soda)?
> It's a bit aggressive to skin than baking soda.


Thats a thought if I change the water after doing carbon steel blades my skin is on the edge of been sore most of the time. Its not a problem when sharpening knives that are not new & in good order so if I only added it when needed.
What is the green in water I see often in pictures of Japanese sharpeners water?


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## nutmeg (Jul 17, 2019)

baking soda is top.
I used this extensively on carbon knives, cheap, no rust, strange color or anything.
Nothing on the fingers too.


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## ojisan (Jul 17, 2019)

Leo Barr said:


> What is the green in water I see often in pictures of Japanese sharpeners water?



I think it’s something called ジュラロン (Duraron), which is basically cutting fluid. I’m not sure if it’s available at outside of Japan. I heard some people in Sakai also use lime. OsakaJoe should know better.


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## JBroida (Jul 18, 2019)

exactly... its duraron


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## Matus (Jul 18, 2019)

I have searched for duraron high and low to no avail. For outside JP just forget it exists (unless you have a reasonable way to import it)


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## Michi (Jul 18, 2019)

Matus said:


> I have searched for duraron high and low to no avail. For outside JP just forget it exists (unless you have a reasonable way to import it)


@JBroida: Something to add to your list of offerings, maybe?


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## ojisan (Jul 18, 2019)

Using magnesia stones can be another option. Shapton Pro makes water alkaline for instance.


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## Ivan Hersh (Jul 18, 2019)

CorrosionX just add a small drop to your water.


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## marc4pt0 (Jul 18, 2019)

Very interesting topic. Duraron would be awesome to have acces to


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## Matus (Jul 18, 2019)

Ivan Hersh said:


> CorrosionX just add a small drop to your water.


I understand that one should wash the knife VERY thoroughly after using this in the water when sharpening. But this could be of help when grinding knives. I may get some and test. I am not too find of my blades rusting when working on them (especially when it comes to hand sanding)


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## JBroida (Jul 19, 2019)

Michi said:


> @JBroida: Something to add to your list of offerings, maybe?


comes only in huge barrels and is quite tricky to ship internationally... i've been looking into alternatives for a while... found some that are nice, but expensive (though still less than it would be to import from japan).


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## osakajoe (Jul 20, 2019)

Exactly as Jon said, comes in large barrels. 

It’s actually a more neon yellow color but turns green once it mixes into the water.


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## lemeneid (Jul 21, 2019)

I just sharpen as per normal. If rust spots develop, just take a bit of the stone mud and rub your fingers over the area and they should come off easily.


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## zizirex (Jul 21, 2019)

How about using engine coolant, it has a rust prevention additive.


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## GeneH (Aug 8, 2019)

zizirex said:


> How about using engine coolant, it has a rust prevention additive.



Ethylene glycol. Ek. I don't know offhand what some of the other cutting fluids or rust inhibitors contain, but Ethylene glycol isn't getting near one of my kitchen-ready knives.


CorrosionX SDS lists only Mineral oil and Hydrotreated neutral base oil (whatever that is) so that doesn't look to bad.


Google isn't returning anything for Duraron except that it's a company.


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## Benuser (Aug 8, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> I just sharpen as per normal. If rust spots develop, just take a bit of the stone mud and rub your fingers over the area and they should come off easily.


I use a linen or half-linen towel.


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## Consequence (Aug 23, 2019)

I would stay away from corrosionx. The oil could mess up your stones.


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## Matus (Aug 24, 2019)

I have recently ordered the HoneRite Gold that was apparently made for exactly this purpose, but I am yet to try it out:
https://www.shieldtechnology.co.uk/honerite-gold-250ml-i43.htm


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## inferno (Aug 24, 2019)

osakajoe said:


> Exactly as Jon said, comes in large barrels.
> 
> It’s actually a more neon yellow color but turns green once it mixes into the water.



that looks like emusified cnc lathe/mill cutting fluid  is it?

I looked at the msds for one we had at an old job. it was radioactive. not much, but it was radioactive  didn't drink that one.


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## inferno (Aug 24, 2019)

for those of you who want cutting fluid just go to any local cnc/machine shop and ask them for a liter unmixed cutting fluid. its all corrosion inhibiting. and it will be for free.


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## HRC_64 (Aug 25, 2019)

inferno said:


> for those of you who want cutting fluid just go to any local cnc/machine shop and ask them for a liter unmixed cutting fluid. its all corrosion inhibiting. and it will be for free.



the issue seems to be some of that stuff isn't food-safe, although
...my guess nothing neon yellow isn't good to eat


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## dwalker (Aug 25, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> the issue seems to be some of that stuff isn't food-safe, although
> ...my guess nothing neon yellow isn't good to eat


Yeah, but you're not eating it. I betcha there are a few ingredients in the synthetic stones themselves that you don't want to eat. Guess what's in the natural stones we love to use.


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## HRC_64 (Aug 26, 2019)

dwalker said:


> Yeah, but you're not eating it. I betcha there are a few ingredients in the synthetic stones themselves that you don't want to eat. Guess what's in the natural stones we love to use.



I'm pretty sure somone like Jon/JKI would know
why the Knife guys all use something very hard to get.

The other obvious issue with "cutting fluid" is the category
isn't homogenous, various chemistry is needed for major
classes of alloy (alu, steel, etc)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_fluid

Of cousre if you want to YOLO something,
at least read the MSDS sheet.
https://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/wd-40-ae38549276.pdf

here's one for wd40 for example, just so you can see how opaque the ingredient list is


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## osakajoe (Aug 26, 2019)

I also use this (couldn’t find any other English website with it). I can buy online here in Japan 

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/m.alibaba.com/amp/product/50002854749.html


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