# Is SHUN a Japanese knife?



## driver

Sorry for question, but It seems made in China...


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## Customfan

Probably need better pics, believe it or not... there are FAUX shun! ;-)


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## Michi

From the Shun website: "Shun cutlery is handcrafted in Japan by the Kai Corporation."


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## driver

Customfan, thanks for responding.
I was embarrassed by a strange inscription "Handcrafted in Japan"...


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## driver




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## Customfan

No worries

Like Michi said, quick answer is.... they are... they are made in japan

And in some part of the process, im sure they are touched by one or more ¨hands¨

Hope this answers your question.

The whole Shun topic tends to delve into a popcorn discussion.... ;-)


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## driver

Customfan said:


> No worries
> 
> Like Michi said, quick answer is.... they are... they are made in japan
> 
> And in some part of the process, im sure they are touched by one or more ¨hands¨
> 
> Hope this answers your question.
> 
> The whole Shun topic tends to delve into a popcorn discussion.... ;-)



OK, thanks again, dear Customfan.
That's from AliExpress))):
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32700834147.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7dae33edw9TNrb
https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32891091622.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7dae33edw9TNrb


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## Matus

What is your point? Aliexpress is full of cheap Chinese (and probably others too) stuff. Most likely made from some crap steel.


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## milkbaby

Counterfeit goods could be manufactured anywhere regardless of what is printed on them. If you want to buy only the legitimate product, then buy only from trustworthy retailers and sellers, which basically excludes anything from AliExpress. #facepalm


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## driver

Matus said:


> What is your point? Aliexpress is full of cheap Chinese (and probably others too) stuff. Most likely made from some crap steel.


My point? Hm...
I've restored a lot of knives, but It's my hobby - nothing commercial...
My problem is my English, maybe You would know about me much earlier.
OK, China.
All info about China is outdated. They do a lot of crap and perfect thing in the same time.
My sources of blades are Value Village, some auction in Japan and AliExpress.
By the way I've bought knives with VG10 core on Rakuten and had a rusty edge.
VG10 never come under rust, but they said, like It's my fault - didn't clean properly)))...
Whatever, all knives with blades from Ali were very good!
About my concern? I just suspect - Shun is not realy Japanese knives, stile, handle, etc.
That's a sample of my work.


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## driver

milkbaby said:


> Counterfeit goods could be manufactured anywhere regardless of what is printed on them. If you want to buy only the legitimate product, then buy only from trustworthy retailers and sellers, which basically excludes anything from AliExpress. #facepalm


You are right, dear and I'm following that rule.


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## parbaked

driver said:


> About my concern? I just suspect - Shun is not realy Japanese knives, stile, handle, etc.



That's because the Chinese knife companies are copying Shun knives as a model for making and marketing "fancy" factory made knives to the mass market.


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## driver

parbaked said:


> That's because the Chinese knife companies are copying Shun knives as a model for making and marketing "fancy" factory made knives to the mass market.


Yes, that sounds logical, but I've never seen "Handcrafted in Japan" on Japanese knives...


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## parbaked

driver said:


> Yes, that sounds logical, but I've never seen "Handcrafted in Japan" on Japanese knives...


Shun is owned by Kai Corporation, which has many brands that are focused on the global market, including Shun.
"Handcrafted in Japan" is their marketing department's idea of what will appeal to consumers in the US and Europe.
This is why the lettering is in English, not Kanji.
https://kaiusaltd.com/about
https://www.kai-group.com/global/en/


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## ojisan

Shun is a very well known brand of Kai mainly for foreign markets (they use the Seki Magoroku brand in Japanese market). Shun knives are made in Japan. It's a completely different question whether an online seller sells genuine products or fakes.

Is Shun a Japanese brand and are genuine Shun knives are made in Japan? Definitely yes
Is my Shun bought form an online seller a genuine Shun knife? Unfortunately no body can tell


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## driver

parbaked said:


> Shun is owned by Kai Corporation, which has many brands that are focused on the global market, including Shun.
> "Handcrafted in Japan" is their marketing department's idea of what will appeal to consumers in the US and Europe.
> This is why the lettering is in English, not Kanji.
> https://kaiusaltd.com/about
> https://www.kai-group.com/global/en/





ojisan said:


> Shun is a very well known brand of Kai mainly for foreign markets (they use the Seki Magoroku brand in Japanese market). Shun knives are made in Japan. It's a completely different question whether an online seller sells genuine products or fakes.
> 
> Is Shun a Japanese brand and are genuine Shun knives are made in Japan? Definitely yes
> Is my Shun bought form an online seller a genuine Shub knife? Unfortunately no body can tell


Thanks a lot, guys!
I live in Toronto, Canada.
May be some one want to make good handle for a knife, tell me.
That's gonna be free, no money, You pay only shipping.
That's my last movie(sorry for Russian):


Find a russian translator)))...


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## zizirex

I thought Shun is factory-made in Portland, OR. Where Kai Knives headquarter is in. Then put a stamp in "handcraft in Japan".


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## JChooMtl

@driver - wait, what? Am I misunderstanding you or are you offering to make free handles for KKF members?


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## Matus

@driver - sorry, I might have misunderstood your post I have reacted to. Yes, of course China can (and does) make a lot of top quality products. My point only was - a product for $30 on Aliexpress that mimics a $150 one is most likely going to be a crap of some sort. Whether it was made in China or not is actually nor relevant.


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## driver

JChooMtl said:


> @driver - wait, what? Am I misunderstanding you or are you offering to make free handles for KKF members?


I understand my offer seems pretty suspiciously)))...
Explanation:
I'm 70. I like to help people. I want to live good memory before I'll pass away. I'm not an idiot and I'll make only one handle for each person. Of course the handle material will not be from amboyna))).. Bat may be...
And again - shipping cost is Yours.


Matus said:


> @driver - sorry, I might have misunderstood your post I have reacted to. Yes, of course China can (and does) make a lot of top quality products. My point only was - a product for $30 on Aliexpress that mimics a $150 one is most likely going to be a crap of some sort. Whether it was made in China or not is actually nor relevant.


You are right, dear Matus. In our mix world with global companies You can't find 100% exactly "made in Japan".
May be except knives from "family business"


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## WildBoar

You are offering a free handle? Nyet way, eh? That is very generous of you. Heck, some forum members with stashes of wood blocks might even send you some for your inventory -- I know I have some blocks I may never use in the next few years. Do you make japenese-style handles as well, or do you focus on western?


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## driver

WildBoar said:


> You are offering a free handle? Nyet way, eh? That is very generous of you. Heck, some forum members with stashes of wood blocks might even send you some for your inventory -- I know I have some blocks I may never use in the next few years. Do you make japenese-style handles as well, or do you focus on western?


I can make any kind of handle - european, or WA. And again - I know,
my offer's very weird, but It's better, than just make a post...


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## ModRQC

driver said:


> I understand my offer seems pretty suspiciously)))...
> Explanation:
> I'm 70. I like to help people. I want to live good memory before I'll pass away. I'm not an idiot and I'll make only one handle for each person. Of course the handle material will not be from amboyna))).. Bat may be...
> And again - shipping cost is Yours.
> 
> You are right, dear Matus. In our mix world with global companies You can't find 100% exactly "made in Japan".
> May be except knives from "family business"



I was reading this and still not 100% sure that you OP did understand what other people were saying, which was not that Shun may or may not subcontract in other countries part of the production even of their most higher end stuff (though I don’t think they need to go that far; just like Wusthof and Zwelling they have cheapened production to a great extent without subcontracting much of anything, and just like them they could have a line of knives made elsewhere under the pretence of a lower price point which they should offer on their main knives instead), but that Shun knives for 30$ are probably fake.

As in counterfeits... falsification... not the real Shun thing whatever it is...

Like me stamping knives in my garage and selling them as Shun. Do I look like I’m an official Shun representative? Of course not...

Of course the notion of quality, even that of real Shun knives, tainted this discussion because people here have quite a set opinion on Shun, Global pretending to be japanese, and Wusthof, Zwelling, pretending to offer real quality.

But the main point was to tell you, whatever the true quality of a true Shun knife, that the one selling for 30$ on Ali wasn’t nowhere near the real thing, just a (name your favorite country for these kind of hacks) counterfeit.

edit: to be clear I was referencing to the very last part of the quote I used.


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## driver

ModRQC said:


> I was reading this and still not 100% sure that you OP did understand what other people were saying, which was not that Shun may or may not subcontract in other countries part of the production even of their most higher end stuff (though I don’t think they need to go that far; just like Wusthof and Zwelling they have cheapened production to a great extent without subcontracting much of anything, and just like them they could have a line of knives made elsewhere under the pretence of a lower price point which they should offer on their main knives instead), but that Shun knives for 30$ are probably fake.
> 
> As in counterfeits... falsification... not the real Shun thing whatever it is...
> 
> Like me stamping knives in my garage and selling them as Shun. Do I look like I’m an official Shun representative? Of course not...
> 
> Of course the notion of quality, even that of real Shun knives, tainted this discussion because people here have quite a set opinion on Shun, Global pretending to be japanese, and Wusthof, Zwelling, pretending to offer real quality.
> 
> But the main point was to tell you, whatever the true quality of a true Shun knife, that the one selling for 30$ on Ali wasn’t nowhere near the real thing, just a (name your favorite country for these kind of hacks) counterfeit.
> 
> edit: to be clear I was referencing to the very last part of the quote I used.


Thanks for responding.
But I still with my opinion - Shun, may be a global company, but not exactly Japanese...
And I agree - knives under 50$ can not be from Japan.


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## ModRQC

And your opinion is sound and shared by most here I believe.

Still the debate was not to show you that they may be a crappy brand, but to warn you that usually a Shun knife is about 150$ and more, and this was not one of them. Not the authentic thing. A fake. Like a rubber dinosaur...


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## Chef Doom

U.S Flags are made in China. Does that make it any less of an American symbol?


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## Carl Kotte

Chef Doom said:


> U.S Flags are made in China. Does that make it any less of an American symbol?



YES it does!!!


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## M1k3

Chef Doom said:


> U.S Flags are made in China. Does that make it any less of an American symbol?



Trump hats are made in Mexico...


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## labor of love

M1k3 said:


> Trump hats are made in Mexico...


By Mexico do you mean Mexicans living in California?


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## M1k3

labor of love said:


> By Mexico do you mean Mexicans living in California?



Whoops, not the hats. His Signature Collection Menswear is made in Mexico and China. Carry on..


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## driver

TO Mod RQK
Let me add something...
Before they made Chinese copies, or some knives from no name producers in Japan in an a chip prices.
But now they create a new stile - same BS, but in expensive price)))...


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## driver

Yes, guys - that's right about flags and hats, whatever...
But knives - a bit another things...
You are all remember the problem with VG10.
It was a long time ago, but heat treating problem with VG10 still even now.
Japanese company TAKEFU could sell any steel to any country.
But!
Then starting problem with heat treating!
And then we could see the difference between hands from Japanese family and and all another BS...)))


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## ModRQC

driver said:


> TO Mod RQK
> Let me add something...
> Before they made Chinese copies, or some knives from no name producers in Japan in an a chip prices.
> But now they create a new stile - same BS, but in expensive price)))...





driver said:


> Yes, guys - that's right about flags and hats, whatever...
> But knives - a bit another things...
> You are all remember the problem with VG10.
> It was a long time ago, but heat treating problem with VG10 still even now.
> Japanese company TAKEFU could sell any steel to any country.
> But!
> Then starting problem with heat treating!
> And then we could see the difference between hands from Japanese family and and all another BS...)))



Entirely legit point of view... then again, not changing anything to the argument made to you in this thread about that « Shun » knife on Ali... but seeing your answers I’m quoting, I can’t help but wonder: why consider a 30$ knife on Ali just because its tagged Shun, if you’re aware of the scam it might be? Why not instead hunt down what looks like the most solid offer for future tweaking at 30$, branding not considered as its probably meaningless, if not misleading...


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## driver

ModRQC said:


> Entirely legit point of view... then again, not changing anything to the argument made to you in this thread about that « Shun » knife on Ali... but seeing your answers I’m quoting, I can’t help but wonder: why consider a 30$ knife on Ali just because its tagged Shun, if you’re aware of the scam it might be? Why not instead hunt down what looks like the most solid offer for future tweaking at 30$, branding not considered as its probably meaningless, if not misleading...


Dear ModRQC, honestly Your English is very nice, but to complicated to me)))...
Sorry))).
Well...
I've never trusted to big companies, like Solingen&Co and KAI with SHUN together.
I'm not a communist and I don't care about global companies, but I don't like their product.
I'd prefer any knives from individual, or family business of knife making. 
Especially since I have been making knives myself for a long time and I know all the existing technologies.
But marketing (I agree) - that's another stile, another technologies)))...
About AliExpress all my experience is negative - all tools and knives were bad quality.


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## ModRQC

Ok then that sounds like its settled.

My english can be good at times but still a second language. Yours is fit for communication and I think you understand it well, but don’t like to argue all that much using it. 

You sound like a good man and I didn’t want to argue with you, just make sure the most important point was understood. Then again you know your way around knives more than I do so who am I to tell you what to buy?


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## Eugene Kim Sung

Is it legal for Shun to market "crafted in Japan" and have literally no "made in" stickers?


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## ModRQC

If you mean like the stickers they often put on crafted japanese knives handles, then I'd say yes, and add that for Shun it is probably better not to put any stickers anywhere as this does detract from the usual western sterile presentation of things. Shun is marketing mostly for the western market obviously, like Zwilling's Miyabi and the likes. Better give folks japanese-like making before they truly get interested in the real J market and realize it offers a much wider variety of steels and styles at the same price. Compared to Zwilling or even Boker, Wusthöf is a stupidly boring brand, always doing X50 steels, and then mostly doing full bolsters, and then charging more for half-bolsters knives of their overexpensive lines......... Surprised that not only are they not extinct right now, but that a lot of folks are advising them as the best to buy on a serious review basis.

Edit: Shun are quite boring in that way too... VG-10 and VG-Max, some AUS-8 I think in the less expensive lines, and then let's step up to really overexpensive series that aren't reinventing or trying anything, like Wusthöf...


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## Michi

ModRQC said:


> Surprised that not only are they not extinct right now, but that a lot of folks are advising them as the best to buy on a serious review basis.


I'm curious… Suppose I want to buy a soft-steel knife (X50 or similar), because I want something that can take abuse. What would you recommend instead of Wüsthof?


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## M1k3

Messermeister?


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## Michi

M1k3 said:


> Messermeister?


Yeah, OK. But I have only one word there. Is there something that makes a Messermeister better than a Wüsthof?


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## daveb

Balance on Messr is a little blade forward. Semi bolster is standard and has been.

Wustie is neutral, semi bolster on Ikon series with a price premium. 

Messr targets the pro market. Wustie the housewife market.


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## M1k3

Michi said:


> Yeah, OK. But I have only one word there. Is there something that makes a Messermeister better than a Wüsthof?



Umm, semi-bolsters?


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## Michi

OK, I get the semi-bolster. But that's available from Wüsthof, too. Prices seem about the same.

I've never used a Messermeister, so I have no idea how they differ from a Wüsthof. Is the 1.4116 steel significantly different from the X50CrMoV15? Composition seems to be very similar.


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## M1k3

Honestly, besides the balance and somewhat different looks, there's not much difference. It's like Honda vs Toyota.


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## Michi

M1k3 said:


> Honestly, besides the balance and somewhat different looks, there's not much difference. It's like Honda vs Toyota.


From looking at the knives and going by the specs, that was my conclusion, too. I would expect the Messermeisters to perform much like the Wüsthofs. The profiles look quite similar as well.

I'll keep an eye out for a Messermeister to try, but don't expect any great revelations if I do get a chance to use one.


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## SeattleBen

At the cheaper end of things, though I don't know what's easily available in AU, I'm partial to the K Sabatier. I have one of the vintage carbon's and I really love it. I'm quite partial to the profile, I'm guessing from what I can see the stainless is going to be about the same. YMMV


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## M1k3

Michi said:


> From looking at the knives and going by the specs, that was my conclusion, too. I would expect the Messermeisters to perform much like the Wüsthofs. The profiles look quite similar as well.
> 
> I'll keep an eye out for a Messermeister to try, but don't expect any great revelations if I do get a chance to use one.



It's pretty much a better balanced Wusthof, generally.


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