# If you could do it all over again...



## tdh (Jan 12, 2020)

Note: Cross-listed on Reddit, so feel free to comment there if it's easier.

Hey there, in thinking through the standard request for knife advice, I thought it might be more interesting to hear how you all would go about building your quiver if you had to do it all over again. Take the question any way you want -- perhaps you'd look for cheaper blades because you ruined a few sharpening, or maybe you'd go big for a few top-shelf blades early on, or maybe you'd never buy something sight unseen or from a particular vendor, or maybe you bought a bunch of blades that looked good but were impractical, etc. Anyway, just hoping to get some interesting lessons learned, and some practical advice.

As to particular knife advice, I'm hoping to find a Gyuto, Nakiri, small knife combo that would meet the needs described below. I have or plan on getting a Martiini fillet knife, Robert Herder peeling knife, Tojiro bread knife and Tojiro kitchen shears, as these are perfectly functional for my purposes and spare my budget for the other items. I have a Shun chef knife and paring knife that I'd keep for guest usage and to continue practice sharpening, but will otherwise hope the gyuto-nakiri-small knife combo will be my daily drivers.

Style? Japanese
Steel? Carbon clad in stainless, though open to some powdered steel in the lineup
Handle? Japanese (d-shaped, round, or octagonal) or hybrid
Grip? Either, I'm flexible
Length? Gyuto 210mm, Nakiri 160-180mm, small knife up to 150mm. For the small knife, we're open to paring, ko-bunka, ko-bocho, or other type.
Use cases? We're very active home cooks, so this is not a professional environment. We eat >85% veggies, so the Nakiri is the most important one to get right. The Gyuto would be used for slicing proteins, and jack of all trades. The small knife is another jack of all trades, but would ideally focus on fine board work with bonus points if it can de-bone small proteins (chicken, fish). It's highly likely that my wife would end up using the smaller knife as a mini-chef knife.
Care? Paid service to start, until I'm more comfortable on whetstones.
Budget? Up to $300 a knife, if sufficiently confident that it'll be at least a 10 year knife. But lord knows I don't want to spend that much, so am gladly happy to follow the collective wisdom to a cheaper knife.
Other? Stylistically, we don't need fancy damascus or other beauty marks, but ideally fit and finish should be high.
We want to support craftsman, so not looking for factory-made. Some producers we've been looking at include:

Takeda -- Particularly like their Nakiri and collection of small knives. Gyuto seems like a weird shape, and would like to get my hands on that and/or their Sasanoha to see if it'll work for us.
Watanabe -- Mainly interested in the Nakiri Pro, but perhaps their Gyuto as well. I would be interested in thoughts about where to upgrade the handle or if this could be DIY. Any in-depth comparisons between this and the Takeda Nakiri would be much appreciated.
Masakage Koishi AS -- Seems like a solid line all the way through, but don't want to be boring and just buy all from the same provider. The Ko-Bunka seems like a good possibility for the small knife, and the Gyuto looks good too.
Anryu -- Same as above.
Shibata -- Super interesting in their grind and sharpening, and am thinking the Gyuto would be a really interesting contrast with either Takeda/Watanabe Nakiri. Although generally aiming for carbon clad, his R2 collection could be a good fit for the small knife in particular and would be interested to hear what people prefer--clad carbon or R2.
Others -- Yoshimitsu, Konosuke, Takamura (don't love the Western handle), Ikazuchi, Gesshin, Yamamoto (but $$$)
Finally, if anyone knows of a reputable proprietor of Japanese knives in the Seattle area, it'd be great to be able to hold a few of these before making any decisions. Thanks in advance for all the advice.


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## BlueSteel (Jan 12, 2020)

In your general area there is Epicurean Edge - great store. They carry none of the lines you mention. However, they do have Wakui, Yoshikane, and other good makers. I have bought both Wakui and Yoshikane there...some of my best bang-for-buck knives that can hold their own with almost anything I have.


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 12, 2020)

Lots of your choices are in my collection. Excellent mostly modestly priced knives that provide great performance. I don’t see any mistakes in your list. I’d just dive in. I don’t know about knife dealers in Seattle but Vancouver has a couple of excellent dealers in Knifewear and AI&OM. Also Kevin Kent has published a great book on the subject which will answer a lot of questions. Here’s a link. 

https://knifewear.com/products/the-knifenerd-guide-to-japanese-knives


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## BlueSteel (Jan 12, 2020)

As an aside, I find it interesting to see Anryu mentioned a fair bit now...never really happened before.

I have an Anryu nakiri and it is probably the worst knife I own. Terrible fit and finish, and rusts like crazy. No patina can stop it from rusting. Would never buy again.


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## BlueSteel (Jan 12, 2020)

Brian Weekley said:


> Lots of your choices are in my collection. Excellent mostly modestly priced knives that provide great performance. I don’t see any mistakes in your list. I’d just dive in. I don’t know about knife dealers in Seattle but Vancouver has a couple of excellent dealers in Knifewear and AI&OM. Also Kevin Kent has published a great book on the subject which will answer a lot of questions. Here’s a link.
> 
> https://knifewear.com/products/the-knifenerd-guide-to-japanese-knives



Of these 2, I prefer Knifewear (I'm in Vancouver, and unrelated to these vendors...just a customer). And Knifewear does stock Takeda, Masakage, and Shibata from the OP. Also they have a Masakage sale once a year with discounts across the lines...cannot remember what month but maybe in the spring?


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 12, 2020)

Hmmmmm ... I have several of Anryu’s knives in my collection. I can’t say that my experience matches yours but then my knives are all of his Karouchi Damascus white #2 blades. Anryu is one of the founders of the Takefu Knife Village and seems well thought of. Then again like most things YMMV. Kurosaki isn’t in the list and makes some nice knives as well.


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## M1k3 (Jan 12, 2020)

tdh said:


> Takamura (don't love the Western handle)


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## zeaderan (Jan 12, 2020)

Epicurean in Kirkland prob has the largest selection in the seattle area. The knife store in pikes place seems to have the full range of tojiros. Uwajimaya has full range for Mac knives. I think you'd have to travel to van BC or Portland to have a chance of finding some of the ones you're listed though


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## ian (Jan 12, 2020)

There’s a Wat nakiri on BST with an already upgraded handle, fyi.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/anyru-210mm-gyuto-and-wat-180mm-nakiri.44706/


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## SilverSwarfer (Jan 12, 2020)

My experience with the Tojiro Shears compels me to suggest “Silky Chef X Pro” instead. They can be found for about $40. 

I was involved in outfitting a Sushi/Raw Bar station last year. Outfitted the station with Tojiro scissors for AK Crab and Shrimp Cocktail prep. High volume situation. I brought in both versions of the Tojiro shears (black handle sets and “stainless” sets). Aside from not being very comfortable in use, they ended up rusty (abused I’m sure) and they’re not quite powerful enough. 

The Silky shears, on the other hand are very impressive. We use them across 5 locations and they’re nearly indestructible. They’ve got a good shape for more detailed work yet lend plenty of leverage for heavy shells (lobster) & small bones, and don’t blister your fingers nearly as quickly. Ours are heavily used/abused and I recommend these with confidence. One drawback however: they are riveted together. Bummer but IME with these, I’ve found no frustration to result.


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## SilverSwarfer (Jan 12, 2020)

Considering it seems you may have some need to work on sharpening skills, I might suggest you skip the Nakiri for now and use part of those funds for “better” or more sharpening supplies. Don’t skimp on the stones! It would be good to have a bit of a flexible over-budget to try different things to find your preferences. Gyuto can do everything well and unless you have prior experience, it might confuse your progress to have another knife that does the same stuff, to learn simultaneously. 

Regarding kitchen tools in particular, comfort and confidence impact joy of use and effectiveness/efficiency immensely. For that reason, I have learned through the years that nothing substitutes for wisdom gained through experience. I suggest you try as many different things as possible and change/upgrade as you grow. With sharpening, most folks are prone to mistakes in the early going. It may benefit to set a goal and upgrade once you reach a certain level of proficiency on the stones.

You may also find a particular passion (affliction) that haunts many on this forum, which is: the love of the character and the shaping of the steel(s). In this case, you may find yourself wanting more, especially when you gain the skills to do whatever you want to do with (and to) the knife. So be aware that when you find great stuff and skills improve, it keeps getting better as you continue to upgrade or try new stuff. 

The good news is that most all the preferred recommendations carry resale value. So maybe focus on buying something(s) you can resell. And, since I buy knives to use as tools in the kitchen, I strongly enjoy buying and using pre-owned knives.

In summation, instead of focusing on things that will be in your kit for 10yrs (any legitimate steel at whatever price point will far surpass 10yrs), focus on getting a good “big knife” and a good “small knife.” Plus plenty of sharpening supplies and an upgrade fund for when you hit your goals. Stay flexible and remember the only right answer is your answer, once you’ve made many mistakes and built the experience to know how to answer your own original question.


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## Chuckles (Jan 12, 2020)

Best thing I did was join this forum. Go to a get together and try a bunch of knives. The blades I liked best at the first get together I went to are still among my favorites after years of trying to find better.


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## rickbern (Jan 12, 2020)

SilverSwarfer said:


> Considering it seems you may have some need to work on sharpening skills, I might suggest you skip the Nakiri for now and use part of those funds for “better” or more sharpening supplies. Don’t skimp on the stones! It would be good to have a bit of a flexible over-budget to try different things to find your preferences. Gyuto can do everything well and unless you have prior experience, it might confuse your progress to have another knife that does the same stuff, to learn simultaneously.
> 
> Regarding kitchen tools in particular, comfort and confidence impact joy of use and effectiveness/efficiency immensely. For that reason, I have learned through the years that nothing substitutes for wisdom gained through experience. I suggest you try as many different things as possible and change/upgrade as you grow. With sharpening, most folks are prone to mistakes in the early going. It may benefit to set a goal and upgrade once you reach a certain level of proficiency on the stones.


Plus one on this. Buy the stones you need and the equipment to go with it. Any money you have left over, buy the best gyuto you can.


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## labor of love (Jan 12, 2020)

Try everything you can possibly afford. I have stainless, stainless clad, mono Carbon, soft iron clad, Honyaki all in my roll at the moment. Try not to pigeonhole your curiosity.


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## bahamaroot (Jan 12, 2020)

If your looking for knives that you'll be happy with "long term" then start with knives that experienced users like and don't go with lower cost "starter knives". Starter knives will be good quality compared to their western mass produced counterparts but they are knives you will be more likely to want to move on from in a few years. To me these are knives <$150 - i.e. Tojiro DP is a good starter knife for the money but after a little experience you'll want to move on from it.
To me, the $200+ range is a good place to start if you want knives to keep long term and have good resale value should you get something you don't jive with to start.


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## Receiver52 (Jan 12, 2020)

If I could do it over, I would research a ton first and start to buy second. Luckily for me, I only made a few mistakes which I will be living with as those knives have very limited market appeal.

It’s a great hobby. You also need an understanding other half. Mine is a pastry chef so that helps a bit when the knives keep rolling in.


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## dafox (Jan 12, 2020)

...I'd go slow, try the knives that you buy for a while before letting them go. 
...Keep the knives that actually work for you, not those that look cool or have some quality that you think you like or are popular.
...try highly recommended knives and find out what YOU like, it's a learning process, highly personal, like taste. 
...some of my favorite knives are rather inexpensive, some cost quite a bit more.


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## panda (Jan 12, 2020)

i wouldnt change a thing. i know what i like because of the history. dont regret any purchase even the ones i hated.


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## ian (Jan 12, 2020)

Probably would have skipped the 8 years of shuns. There was a moment back when I was in grad school when one of the people in Northwestern Cutlery (in Chicago) was recommending that I try such and such a knife, but somehow I bought a Shun instead. In retrospect, that was one of those all important moments, like in a movie where famous actor A makes a fateful decision to betray famous actor B for some lowly monetary gain, and then famous actor A has to live with the shame for the rest of his life.


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## labor of love (Jan 12, 2020)

ian said:


> Probably would have skipped the 8 years of shuns.


Yeah, after the 3 years of using globals I convinced myself that maybe chef knives just aren’t supposed to be very sharp.


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## ian (Jan 12, 2020)

Yea, although I think mine weren’t sharp because I wasn’t sharpening them, not because they were Shuns. Should have learned how to sharpen sooner, but it took getting good knives to motivate me to do so. Definitely spent too long sending my Shuns out to be sharpened by someone with a powered wheel and not many skills, and thinking that smashing knives on a ceramic rod Gordon Ramsay style was beneficial.


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## Garner Harrison (Jan 12, 2020)

I kind of regret not looking up the blacksmith of the knives I brought more and not looking around more here before purchasing. Shigeki Tanaka makes great blades but the final finish can be really lacking depending on the vendor. I also later, found out it would of been cheaper to buy from KnS and it would have had a better final finish. 

I would recommend Shigeki Tanaka gyuto from KnS if you want a blade from a Japanese blacksmith at a really nice price. I dont think Ive seen cheaper forged blades from other Japanese blacksmiths. I stress this again, get them from KnS cause they will spruce up the blade and do a great final finish!  

Wish you luck on your blade hunt!


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## Bert2368 (Jan 13, 2020)

Would have ditched my allegedly high end German knives for lighter, sharper, HARDER Japanese knives A LOT sooner, mostly. What the heck, at least I got more sharpening practice?


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## LostHighway (Jan 13, 2020)

+1 on buy good sharpening supplies immediately but at this juncture you don't need a large collection of stones. Two (500 + 2k is one possibility) or even just a single stone (800 or 1k) are adequate while you learn. Gesshin, JNS, Shapton, Chosera, and probably Morihei, Imanishi, Suehiro, or King Hyper (I've never used these) are all capable stones. You will also need something to flatten stones and bevel edges.
Personally, I would start with a single, fairly inexpensive, knife to learn sharpening on. I'm somewhat partial to some of the Tosa makers as having "good bones" coupled with lowish prices to make up for the often slightly rough fit and finish. Munetoshi Sanjo knives are another possibility albeit a bit more expensive. The Tojiro Shrogami 2 knives are yet another budget option as are the Dao Vua knives. A $300 knife that has been scarred up and had its profile altered by a beginner sharpener is going to lose a significant amount of resale value. Barring great luck I think the notion that your first purchase or two is going to be a "final" knife is a tad naive. Following consensus opinions will only get you so far.


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## CiderBear (Jan 13, 2020)

I regret spending 30 bucks on this thing from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HFI2KIE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_BRjhEbWK8CCZG

A year later and I never even opened it.


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## tdh (Jan 13, 2020)

Wow, y'all are thorough! Thank you kindly for the robust responses. Based on the good advice here (@SilverSwarfer, @rickbern, @ian), I'm shifting focus from knives to stones. Super appreciative of the recommendations for specific stones (@LostHighway), and the proprietor recommendations to continue my research (@Garner Harrison, @Brian Weekley, @BlueSteel). Randomly, I'll be in LA next week and will make a trip to Japanese Knife Imports to discuss sharpening and stones. But will also head over to Epicurean Edge soon, and will make a pilgrimage to Vancouver in February to coincide with the KnifeWear Masakage sale that @BlueSteel mentioned. For specific blades, will check out the Silky shears @SilverSwarfer recommended, and the used Wat that @ian mentioned.

Seems like joining this forum was my smartest move (head nod @Chuckles). Thanks to all for pointing me in the right direction!


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## BlueSteel (Jan 13, 2020)

Glad to help!

For the Knifewear sale, if you did not know BC sales tax is 12%. So if you carry a knife from the sale out the door with you, the 15% discount does just a little better than erasing the sales tax. 

However, you might be able to pick your knife out and have them ship to you in WA. Looks like they have free shipping in North America for a $200+ purchase. Talk to them - if they ship to you in the US, they should not have to charge sales tax.

And of course, your $1 US is worth about $1.32 CDN...so the prices are a lot easier to handle in your currency.


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## McMan (Jan 13, 2020)

panda said:


> i wouldnt change a thing. i know what i like because of the history. dont regret any purchase even the ones i hated.


+1

NO REGRETS


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 13, 2020)

tdh ... if you’re in Van don’t miss AI&OM. Check out their website. Doug is very knowledgeable and nice to deal with as is Knifewear.


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## YumYumSauce (Jan 14, 2020)

I wouldnt make any changes in my knife journey so far either. I like my steady progession as I gain more skills and knowledge of knives. Bought a tojiro dp in Culinary school and eventually learned how to sharpen on it. Got an internship and wanted a new knife, did some research and learned about carbons and picked up a gesshin uraku and started picking up some stones. Learned to care for carbons and picked up a cck carbon cleaver and gesshin ginga petty. Next on the list are single bevels but Im southpaw.


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## toddnmd (Jan 14, 2020)

Tdh , if you’re going to take a trip to JKI, I’d seriously consider picking up a knife along with a stone or two. I’ve never met Jon IRL, but hope to some day. I’ve seen many instances of him “down selling” to match a knife to a user. Especially those who are just starting out. A seller with the highest level of integrity. And his YouTube sharpening vids are a great resource.
I also think it’s hard to go wrong with a KNS Tanaka. I have a Ginsanko, which is a great knife, but have heard great things about B#2 as well.


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## krx927 (Jan 14, 2020)

Majority of important things were already written. I will repeat them and some additional info:





SilverSwarfer said:


> My experience with the Tojiro Shears compels me to suggest “Silky Chef X Pro” instead. ...... One *drawback *however: they are riveted together. Bummer but ...




For me that is the main point of buying Tojiro shears (in my case Diawood Kitchen Scissors which are the same). For kitchen work it is necessary to properly clean them -> you need to take them apart!




SilverSwarfer said:


> Considering it seems you may have some need to work on sharpening skills, I might suggest you skip the Nakiri for now and use part of those funds for “better” or more sharpening supplies. *Don’t skimp on the stones!* ..... Gyuto can do everything well .....
> 
> 
> With sharpening, most folks are prone to mistakes in the early going.....
> ...




Very valid feedback about sharpening supplies. The biggest mistake I did form the beginning was that I was not buying good enough sharpening supplies. First I went with Gatco system which is complete crap. Then I invested heavily in EdgePro which is better but still has it’s limitations -> you cannot thin knives. Only after that I bought a proper set of stones.


I suggest that you buy good stones immediately. In my opinion at the beginning you need 1000&3000. Any finer you need to first evaluate 3k. Anything coarser you will not need at the beginning as it is used for thinning.


There were already some suggestions which are good stones. At first it might seem hat is a lot of money to pay for the stones (perhaps even before you bought first good knife) but in the long run it will save you money.


Also obviously do not learn how to sharpen on the good knives you will buy, but for this you have your old Shuns 






Chuckles said:


> Best thing I did was join this forum...




Good suggestion -> just read a lot on the forum first.





rickbern said:


> … Buy the stones you need and the equipment to go with it. Any money you have left over, buy the best gyuto you can.




Like mentioned above about stones. And I also second the “buy the nest gyuto you can”. I use gyuto for 90% of all cutting.




bahamaroot said:


> If your looking for knives that you'll be happy with "long term" then start with knives that experienced users like and don't go with lower cost "starter knives". Starter knives will be good quality compared to their western mass produced counterparts but they are knives you will be more likely to want to move on from in a few years. To me these are knives <$150 - i.e. Tojiro DP is a good starter knife for the money but after a little experience you'll want to move on from it.
> 
> To me, the $200+ range is a good place to start if you want knives to keep long term and have good resale value should you get something you don't jive with to start.





About the knives, I think this is best advice that was written. You do not need all the knives you mention from the beginning. Buy one good gyuto! Unfortunately it will be more like +300$ but you will never be sorry.


If I could suggest one it would surely be Toyama (or Watanabe which is the same knife). Now they come in SS cladding so you will also not have such an issue with reactivity.


One other thing that you must take into account is that J knives require proper handling like carbon ones tend to rust. You should not leave them on the counter dirty and forget on them for half a day or so.


Also one thing that is not discussed much on KKF is the fact that these knives are really fragile beasts -> you can easily chip them, especially the tip. You just touch the sink with the tip and a millimeter is gone. Also they are not usable to cut anything really hard (frozen food, parmigiano, hard crusted bread…) -> you will chip the cutting edge.


Read also about this aspect of J knives as for sure you have to be aware of this.





Receiver52 said:


> If I could do it over, I would research a ton first and start to buy second. ….QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Again, as mentioned above.
> ...


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 14, 2020)

Available on Amazon


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## Michi (Jan 14, 2020)

Brian Weekley said:


> Available on Amazon


Anyone here who has read this? Reviews on Amazon are rather mixed…


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## Barmoley (Jan 14, 2020)

Brian Weekley said:


> Available on Amazon
> 
> View attachment 68800
> 
> ...


Such a show off, nice Evan honyaki, looks like the one I used to have, great knife.


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 14, 2020)

I’ve read it. Been collecting knives for a long time. Been sharpening for over fifty years. I refer to it regularly. For a noobie it’s full of information that would take years to discern and assemble by reading posts on KKF. I had two complaints with it. Firstly it focuses on the smiths working out of the Takefu Knife Village. There are lots of others. Secondly there was no consideration of western makers of Japanese style knives. However at 312 pages it covers the basic subjects well. As a jumping off point on Japanese knives it is, in my opinion, an excellent read.


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 14, 2020)

Haha Barm ... it’s called a teaser! I’m still planning the meal I’ll use to introduce it on “New Knives”! Great knife though. I’m indebted to the seller. Great guy!


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## Luftmensch (Jan 15, 2020)

@Brian Weekley; thanks for the mini review!



Brian Weekley said:


> there was no consideration of western makers of Japanese style knives



To be fair the title suggests it might lean that way 

The 'Knife finishes' and 'Steel lessons from a nerd and super-nerd' chapters look like potentially interesting reads


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 15, 2020)

Luft... Good point and at 312 pages the line had to be drawn somewhere. You have to give Kevin Kent credit. It was a big effort and it’s not like he’s going to sell a million copies. I found it to be an easy informative read that didn’t really dive into any subject too deeply. I liked the steel chapters too. I really liked the coverage of the Takefu village and some of the makers.


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## LucasFur (Jan 15, 2020)

If i could do it all over ... I wish i bought a few i missed, and didnt buy a few i later re-sold. 
Live and Learn.


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## GorillaGrunt (Jan 15, 2020)

Hard to say, because I had to do all the trying things out to learn what I liked and what I needed. I maybe would have taken the plunge on a few of the more expensive ones earlier, and skipped over some of the more entry level ones — but I didn’t have the knowledge to do so yet. I also might have waited until I was more comfortable sharpening and thinning before getting some of the exotic high alloy steels or before giving up and selling some of the knives.

The only one I could say I ruined was a Tsubaki bunka from CKTG and it had problems to start with; I learned a lot by trying to fix it though that helped me with later projects and purchases. Even that one can probably be fixed eventually with a lot of time or a belt grinder.

One big surprise was an Unshu Yukimitsu; at first I liked it out of the box, then I didn’t anymore, then I decided the geometry wasn’t actually good so I listed it but it didn’t sell. So I kept playing with it as I learned more and now it’s one I like a lot at home - just needed some thinning, and the bad sharpening jobs I did a year or two ago (putting too big of an edge bevel on, mostly) were part of the problem.

And I hated the Masamoto KS.


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## LucasFur (Jan 15, 2020)

GorillaGrunt said:


> And I hated the Masamoto KS.



How many times have you sold a knife that everybody seems to love? 

And you read the reviews after selling again, and think " jeez, did I just not sharpen it?!? , why didn't I like it"


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## Barmoley (Jan 15, 2020)

LucasFur said:


> How many times have you sold a knife that everybody seems to love?
> 
> And you read the reviews after selling again, and think " jeez, did I just not sharpen it?!? , why didn't I like it"


This is a real thing, happened multiple times to me. I even bought some knives multiple times just to make sure. This is why you don't really know until you try for yourself, sometimes the likes and dislikes just can't be explained in any reasonable way. Some knives just work even though on paper they shouldn't and the other way around.


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## GorillaGrunt (Jan 15, 2020)

LucasFur said:


> How many times have you sold a knife that everybody seems to love?
> 
> And you read the reviews after selling again, and think " jeez, did I just not sharpen it?!? , why didn't I like it"



Probably 5 or 6. Takeda I didn’t thin right (although it was not one of the Takedas everyone liked, but one of the newer ones that needed a regrind). Sukenari powder steels I bought all at once and early on, definitely needed more practice sharpening and thinning and will probably try HAP40 again and maybe YXR7 if I can find one. KS edge retention stank and I preferred every knife I’ve ever bought for the price over that one, beautiful as it is. Ikeda honyaki wanted thinning, but I had just done that with my Kageura and I like the height and grind on the latter.

More frequent though is getting a knife everyone loves, and deciding it just isn’t for me, or isn’t for me at that time, or I didn’t get the right size or shape: Akebono was too long and flat of a Ktip for me, Toyama maybe I didn’t need a 270 (although I don’t know that I’ll get another now that I have a Shigehiro and Togashi), Takamura petty I got too small of one...

Shigehiro is a good example because the 240 I was so excited to get was totally wrong, but then I got a 270 and it’s totally right. Bet I could have ground the Tsukiji Masamoto V1 into something awesome though.


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## labor of love (Jan 15, 2020)

The $450 KS priced itself right out of the market lol. Yes, I bought many KSs over and over again now I’m permanently moved on from it.
Shigehiro is just so good for bulk protein prepping, it wouldn’t be the knife I’d choose for lots of vegetables. Nevertheless it’s a fun bruiser.
As much I like the Akebono I’m starting to gravitate more towards less “pointy” gyutos.


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## CiderBear (Jan 30, 2020)

I thought of one thing. If I could do it all over again I would've bought that last 210mm Watanabe KU gyuto from Carbon Knife Co. I added the damn thing in my cart way too many times.


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## refcast (Jan 30, 2020)

How is the Unshu Yukimitsu like? At least heat treat wise. I've been meaning to buy knives from KnifeJapan, though they mainly have smaller ones . . . I think I'd rather buy one of those than a takagi the first time around . . .


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## lemeneid (Jan 31, 2020)

If I could do it all over again, I’d buy just TFs and Wats for cutting and I would have dipped my toes into collecting much earlier before the prices went silly.


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## Gregmega (Jan 31, 2020)

CiderBear said:


> I thought of one thing. If I could do it all over again I would've bought that last 210mm Watanabe KU gyuto from Carbon Knife Co. I added the damn thing in my cart way too many times.



Don’t worry- it’s safe [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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## daddy yo yo (Jan 31, 2020)

Probably Watanabe, Toyama, Mazaki. Nothing else.


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## CiderBear (Jan 31, 2020)

Gregmega said:


> Don’t worry- it’s safe [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]



I call it if you get bored of it!!!


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## Boynutman (Jan 31, 2020)

If I could do it all over again... 

The only thing bugging me is this: ‘I wonder if should have bought the 240 version instead of the 210. I wonder how that 120 would have felt instead of my 130. I wonder if I should have bought the 210 instead of the 180, and gotten thàt one in 180?’ etc. etc.


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## GorillaGrunt (Feb 7, 2020)

refcast said:


> How is the Unshu Yukimitsu like? At least heat treat wise. I've been meaning to buy knives from KnifeJapan, though they mainly have smaller ones . . . I think I'd rather buy one of those than a takagi the first time around . . .



Not as good as TF but better than most other white steel out there. You mean Junichi Takagi, the Tesshu honyaki? I’ve read here that the steel is great but grinding it into a high performing knife is quite a project.


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## Michi (Feb 7, 2020)

If could do it again, I would not have bought the smallish generic sharpening stones you can find on Amazon and eBay for $20 or $30. The seemed like good value at the time, seeing that they are two-sided. But the reality was that I found out very quickly that these stones are really bad.

For one, they are _way_ coarser than their stated grit rating. (My 1000-grit was more like a 300 or 400, and the 300-grit was more like 120.) Second, those stones were extremely soft. So soft that I had noticeable dishing after sharpening a single knife (an old and cheap yanagiba), which dished the 1000-grit side by something like 25% of its thickness.

I thought I was clever by buying something cheap first so, if I decided that I wouldn't want to keep this up, I wouldn't have lost much. Not so 

The smart thing for a beginner's stone would have been a King KDS. That's a good stone that is true to grit and has decent size, and it doesn't disappear in front of my eyes while I'm sharpening.


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## refcast (Feb 7, 2020)

The steel on the takagi is . . . on the softer side of honyaki on the hardened edge. . . . . . its hard to compare though, since most of my knives are thinner. 

purely steel speaking . . . i guess a little worse edge taking than watanabe blue, a bit more tough, a bit similar in edge retention. . . . speaking only of the hagane, the watanabe is actually harder to sharpen. . . i guess same tier as watanabe, mainly different. . . but watanabe is way more functional


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## panda (Feb 7, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Yeah, after the 3 years of using globals I convinced myself that maybe chef knives just aren’t supposed to be very sharp.


dardeau gifted me a global santoku to use as a room mate proof knife, which i thinned the absolute crap out of and basically made my own grind and that thing was a sweet cutter! it would go dull after one day of use but hey, it cut pretty damn good!!


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## stringer (Feb 7, 2020)

panda said:


> dardeau gifted me a global santoku to use as a room mate proof knife, which i thinned the absolute crap out of and basically made my own grind and that thing was a sweet cutter! it would go dull after one day of use but hey, it cut pretty damn good!!



Globals make great re-gifts.


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## Bert2368 (Feb 8, 2020)

I remember when Globals seemed awesome. It's all relative- 

When I gave the first Globals to my girlfriend, she had "The Ginzu" knives, guaranteed to be just as dull after cutting a beer can or a lead pipe in two as before you started to saw on them...


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## Michi (Feb 8, 2020)

$9.95 in 1980 is about the same $30 today. Awesome deal, I have to admit!


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## Carl Kotte (Feb 8, 2020)

I would have bought a set of Globals and never looked at anything else. Ignorance is bliss [emoji16]


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## bahamaroot (Feb 8, 2020)

Bert2368 said:


> I remember when Globals seemed awesome. It's all relative-
> 
> When I gave the first Globals to my girlfriend, she had "The Ginzu" knives, guaranteed to be just as dull after cutting a beer can or a lead pipe in two as before you started to saw on them...


I still own a Ginsu. Never underestimate the usefulness of a beer can cutting knife!


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## Michi (Feb 8, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Ignorance is bliss


There's that, yes. Come to think of it, the food I cook today with my fancy Japanese knives tastes no better than the food I cooked two years ago with my not so fancy German knives. But the Japanese knives definitely look prettier


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