# Scimitars: Practical or just for show?



## linecook854 (Feb 19, 2013)

Are scimitars actually better in some way than a slicing knife or sujihiki for portioning meats or are they really just for show? Are scimitars actually used for anything other than portioning meats and what is the proper motion for using one?


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## jgraeff (Feb 19, 2013)

I used one a while back and loved it both for meat and fish, want to get mike Davis to make me one once I save up some money


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## Canadian (Feb 20, 2013)

There's a reason why they've been the gold standard in butchery for over a millennia. 

For a home cook they are a little superfluous.


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## Deckhand (Feb 20, 2013)

I have big blue handled forschner one i have used for years on fish, and Salty's scimitar is still my favorite knife ever.


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## linecook854 (Feb 20, 2013)

I'm asking because I'm a professional cook and and cut a lot of steaks and do some other simple meat fabrication. I usually use a slicer or a chefs knife depending on what type of fabrication I'm doing. I cut beautiful filets with a slicer but if a scimitar would work better I'd be interested in getting one.


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## Chuckles (Feb 20, 2013)

They are capable of making board contact from a much broader range of angles than a slicing knife. When butchering very thick pieces of meat or separating primals on a carcass this is very helpful. Also when making long draw (pull) cuts through dense proteins the ability to use the knife in a reverse grip increases leverage significantly. This turns what would be two or three cuts with a slicer into one continuous cut which reduces the chances of damaging valuable proteins during fabrication.

I don't think you would notice any appreciable advantage on fillets but if you get into larger butchery tasks you might want one around.

Plus they look cool.


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## Salty dog (Feb 20, 2013)

Depends what you're cutting. I use one for larger cuts of beef. (Ribeye, top sirloin butts, etc) I use a boner on beef tenderloins and anything smaller. The curved tip has many benefits.


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## Chuckles (Feb 20, 2013)

I'm sure you knew it was coming.



> The curved tip has many benefits.



That's what she said.


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## sachem allison (Feb 20, 2013)

pretty much what Salty and the clown said.


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## tkern (Feb 20, 2013)

Wasn't "Salty and the Clown" a buddy cop show in the '80s?


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## brainsausage (Feb 20, 2013)

Chuckles said:


> I'm sure you knew it was coming.
> 
> That's also what she said...


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## tkern (Feb 20, 2013)

She probably thought that, but the guy had no idea.


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## ThEoRy (Feb 20, 2013)

I cut filet with a honesuki, for portioning strips and ribeyes a scimitar works well.


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## franzb69 (Feb 20, 2013)

been looking into these as i'm thinking of taking up butchery classes.


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## brainsausage (Feb 20, 2013)

I love how this devolved into baser comedy- then back on topic without skipping a beat. Have I mentioned lately how cool this forum is?

I've been talking about scimitars all day seems like. Butchery type knives are high on my list right now... Things are changing...


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## franzb69 (Feb 20, 2013)

i can't seem to find any good bull nosed butcher knives except for butch harner's semi custom stuff which are well..... too expensive for my wallet. i know they'll work well but i don't think i'll ever be able to afford those til i actually get a job. lol. there are old hickory ones of course, but the newer ones are too short. can't find any vintage ones at the moment.

scimitars too. i want me one.


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## Chuckles (Feb 20, 2013)

> Butchery type knives are high on my list right now



I can understand if your using a Kato everyday how you might stop drooling over gyutos for a bit. 



> i can't seem to find any good bull nosed butcher knives



There does seem to be a huge void in the middle of the market for some reason. It seems to go from Forschner to Fowler with nothing in the middle except the odd vintage piece.


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## franzb69 (Feb 20, 2013)

> There does seem to be a huge void in the middle of the market for some reason. It seems to go from Forschner to Fowler with nothing in the middle except the odd vintage piece.



yessir! nothing so far in the middle or even in the low-mid bracket either....

just goes to show that there aren't enough folks in the butchery industry and not enough demand for the knives. the decline of traditional butchers is quite disturbing. i see this as an opportunity to get into it though. as there is a slight showing of interest of people getting back into butchery and more traditional vocations.


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## brainsausage (Feb 20, 2013)

You're spot on with the Kato comment Chuck 

I've been effing with a bull nose for about 2 weeks now, that I picked up off eBay about a year ago. Spaced it off(as well as the slicer/mini scimitar, and the weird giant nakiri/cleaver thing that came with it), until I found it in a drawer the other day. I've been thinning/reprofiling/cutting in new bevels every couple nights after work. Tonight I thought I'd screw around with finishes. Kinda broke right now, so I just tried polishing with a cork and some slurry from the Rika 5k, over a 325 scratch pattern. Interesting results. High contrast with some nice gloss. I left a little of the ancient patina on. Gives a weird kurouchi-esque effect. Not gonna stick with this finish, but its fun to experiment on a relatively inexpensive knife, that's made to get beaten on.


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## Stumblinman (Feb 20, 2013)

wildfire has some interesting ones. Not sure on the thickness though. Although since Franz is in the area, maybe you could pick up one of those older type swords for one. I'm thinking a pira would do good.


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## Chuckles (Feb 20, 2013)

There are a ton of people in butchery but with the industrialization of the commodity market and a transition to larger corporate conglomerates driving up production scale there is a corresponding downward pressure on wages to compete. Hence no nice knives for them. When I am left without a choice and must resort to large production sources I am consistently appalled with the quality of the meat cutting. There are, however, many many people in the restaurant industry and in small scale artisanal butcher shops that care deeply about proper practices and refined techniques as well as an affluent customer base providing for relatively livable wages. You would think that that dedicated community would be able to sustain demand for a maker to offer a line of knives suited to these tasks. 

The question for me is what is it about a scimitar that makes it a project so rarely taken on? Amount of steel required? Difficulty in forging a long blade with a pronounced curve?


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## franzb69 (Feb 20, 2013)

> I'm thinking a pira would do good.



i don't even know where to get them locally. lol. i live in Manila, the main metropolitan center of my country. the pira sword is more of a muslim type of sword, most of them are from the southern part of my country. And as my country is, well, an archipelago.... travel is more....difficult. lol. my fellow countrymen and i would also have a bit of a language barrier as each province has their own dialect, so there's literally quite a few dialects that are spoken in each island. not everyone speaks tagalog, and english is much much less so. and then there's this long standing divide with us catholics and muslims....a few militant groups that like kidnapping people for ransom too....

there are sites that sell them if you really want one. they charge an arm and a leg in my opinion though since the finish on them isn't up there as one would like. basic tools and all that.

traditionalfilipinoweapons and kalahi custom blades are the ones that have of a more online presence so that's where i've actually found those. i can probably procure locally made balisongs as balisongs is made closer to where I live. Batangas, where they're made is actually my father's side of the family are from, which kind of is one of the reason why i'm really into knives. Most of them are either cops or in the army, or farmers or ice cream makers.


mora makes pretty good kitchen knives. they have a line of butchery knives. might be worth taking a look at. made in 12c27 if i'm correct. and in 58RC.



> There are, however, many many people in the restaurant industry and in small scale artisanal butcher shops that care deeply about proper practices and refined techniques as well as an affluent customer base providing for relatively livable wages. You would think that that dedicated community would be able to sustain demand for a maker to offer a line of knives suited to these tasks.



this is what i wanted to be in, artisanal stuff. apparently there's not enough of them to have a demand. are there not enough knife knuts in the butchery world? =(


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## brainsausage (Feb 20, 2013)

Maybe cuz scimitars are kinda like swords? I'm only half joking...

And I agree- butchery is making a big comeback in regards to restaurants especially. As well as the concept of people looking to buy from a proper 'butcher'- someone who can cut, describe the cut in terms of texture/taste. The return of the deli is one of the most exciting concepts in our current gastronomical landscape IMO. it's my dream to own a place where we cut fresh every morning, do charcuterie on site, make messy sandwiches, and talk to customers face to face about meat.


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## franzb69 (Feb 20, 2013)

> it's my dream to own a place where we cut fresh every morning, do charcuterie on site, make messy sandwiches, and talk to customers face to face about meat.



if ever you do decide, i'd wanna be part of it. lol. i don't mind smelling like raw meat all day, though of course a long shower would be required, and maybe a good long soak in a hot tub after all that work. there aren't any good butchers here!


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## Chuckles (Feb 20, 2013)

> Interesting results. High contrast with some nice gloss.



The pictures didn't show up for me for some reason. :bat:



> The return of the deli is one of the most exciting concepts in our current gastronomical landscape



Funny. I am in the later planning stages of opening a place like you described. Although I prefer it when pretty girls are the ones "talking to customers face to face about meat."


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## chuck239 (Feb 20, 2013)

Stumblinman said:


> wildfire has some interesting ones.



NOOOOO!!!!!!!! Sorry.... Stay away. Save your money and run.

-Chuck


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## NO ChoP! (Feb 20, 2013)

I use one to skin large sides of fish. The curve helps with skin that curves up, and doesnt lay perfectly flat.


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## skiajl6297 (Feb 20, 2013)

If any of you are in the DC Metro area, try Stachowskis in Georgetown - it is pretty much precisely what brainsausage describes. (And mighty convenient to have within walking distance of the office). Epic grinders, delicious charcuterie (used in said grinder), helpful service, quality sourced meats, and occasionally, attractive greeters.


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## Lefty (Feb 20, 2013)

Butcher knives are what they are. They're perfect for butchering large portions of meat. A scimitar might be a bit much for a home chef, but then again, so are 4 gyutos, 3 sujis, 2 yanagi-ba and a partridge in a pear tree.

However, a good bullnose will come in handy even for a home cook (great for splitting, through joints and working with bone-in quarters). This is coming from a guy who got to do this while trying to stay in university, so trust me.

If it were up to me, I'd have a full set of butchering knives...oh wait, I do.


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## turbochef422 (Feb 20, 2013)

I have an old foster bros carbon and its sick for cutting cowboy cut steaks butchering whole strip loin I love it


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## Mike9 (Feb 20, 2013)

brainsausage said:


> I love how this devolved into baser comedy- then back on topic without skipping a beat



Must be a guy thing - always spitin' distance from the gutter. :devilburn: 

And yeah scimitars are wicked cool looking. My granddaughter calls it my "Pirate Knife" :doublethumbsup:

The thing I like about it is the length of cut is long yet compact because of the curve and I can get a little more leverage at the end of the cut by curving upwards. Great for slicing steaks haven't tried mine on a big fish yet.


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## Noodle Soup (Feb 20, 2013)

I use one for all the big game and occasional steer I home butcher. That said, it is kind of a 2 or 3 times a year knife for me. My last deer was was steaked out with a Chinese made Kershaw 12-inch cimeter (the other spelling) and I thought the knife worked very well for its intended purpose.


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## Salty dog (Feb 20, 2013)

My three. I picked up the vintage carbon Solingen on E-bay (top) Nice knife. Devin's and a Dick.


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## K-Fed (Feb 20, 2013)

I've got the same solingen scimitar and it is pretty great for the money. One tough mother. Use it often to dismember chicken's a la' Theory. Could just as easily take down small saplings and or the odd zombie.






And the fowler


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## Mike9 (Feb 20, 2013)

That DT looks sweet - here's my Dexter.


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## Chuckles (Feb 20, 2013)

I'll take one of the Solingen's please.

Nice knives guys. Thanks for the pics.


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## brainsausage (Feb 20, 2013)

K-Fed said:


> I've got the same solingen scimitar and it is pretty great for the money. One tough mother. Use it often to dismember chicken's a la' Theory. Could just as easily take down small saplings and or the odd zombie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I still covet that Stephan scimitar. So awesome.


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## vicv (Feb 20, 2013)

http://www.chefsmall.net/Chan-Chi-Kee-Chinese-Butchers-Knife-Knives-L
Not sure if that's a scimitar but it'd be fun to cut some stuff with. These things are huge in person!


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## franzb69 (Feb 20, 2013)

prolly chinese version of a gyuto =D


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## vicv (Feb 20, 2013)

It's over 1/4 at the spine. It's a big butcher knife. Far too thick for gyuto. I still want one though


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## franzb69 (Feb 20, 2013)

i see. then it's a chinese version of a western deba.


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## brainsausage (Feb 20, 2013)

I've wanted to pick up one of those mini 'buster sword' looking choppers that CCK makes for a little bit now. Maybe I'll snag one next paycheck, and we can do a very specialized passaround


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## ThEoRy (Feb 20, 2013)

It's a pig sticker!!


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## tkern (Feb 20, 2013)

Pig sticker!


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## K-Fed (Feb 20, 2013)

Chuckles said:


> I'll take one of the Solingen's please.
> 
> Nice knives guys. Thanks for the pics.



There's a couple up on the bay sub 50 bones without shipping. Go grab one ;-)


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## Miles (Feb 20, 2013)

I've got a nice old Dexter with plenty of patina. Great for portioning ribeye and strips. 
Plus it just looks plain cool. You pull that out and everyone knows you mean business. :laugh:


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## brainsausage (Feb 21, 2013)

K-Fed said:


> There's a couple up on the bay sub 50 bones without shipping. Go grab one ;-)



I just did! :spiteful:


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## Dardeau (Feb 21, 2013)

Try R. Murphy knives. The Bossman bought me a carbon bullnose from them for Xmas and I've liked it a lot. Brainsausage, if you ever make it to New Orleans the folks I work for operate a sandwich shop right up your alley, Cochon Butcher.


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## Chuckles (Feb 21, 2013)

Those Murphy knives look pretty cool. The sandwich place looks great! Didn't know there was a sandwich place associated with Cochon. 

Dardeau, I think you need to start posting more. :thumbsup:


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## franzb69 (Feb 21, 2013)

very enticing indeed those murphy knives


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## NO ChoP! (Feb 21, 2013)

Salty dog said:


> I picked up................. a Dick.



Beavis and Butthead moment....

Those F'in Dicks!!!!


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