# Best Workhorse Gyuto for $500



## Yertle27 (May 4, 2019)

Looking for some advice or suggestions-- Workhorse Gyuto.

LOCATION
What country are you in?

U.S.A.


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

240 Gyuto- Workhorse that can fly through prep anything from herbs to root veggies. 

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

$600 but would like to stay at $500 if possible


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

Veggie Prep (chopping/mincing). Slicing some meats like skirt steak, 

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Not replacing any knife. Have a 210 Ikazuchi 

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

Mainly Pinch (and some hammer)


Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

I like the Ikazuchi but it seems a little light at times. 

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

Prefer something that doesn't wedge and is decently tough. 

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

A week or two. 

I like the look for Halycon Forge knifes...have also looked into Wantabe, Toyoma, etc. Anyone have something they absolutely love out there before I pull the trigger? Thanks for the help


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## Jville (May 4, 2019)

Do you really need to break down chicken and break poultry bones with this knife? I think that might change sone peoples recs.


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## Nemo (May 4, 2019)

Workhorse is a bit of an ambiguous term. Can you confirm that you are using it to mean "a fairly tough knife that can deal with anything" rather than "a thicker knife with a grind optimised for food release". Depending on the type of veggie, the latter will fly through veggie prep faster than the former, but may wedge a bit more. Also be aware that tougher knives are often a bit softer and often not a thin behind the edge as harder, more brittle knives. Lots of tradeoffs here.

Can't comment on the Halcyons.

Watanabe (and I think Toyama) are firmly in the latter camp- food release knife. Great for plowing through mountains of prep.

I like Hinoura Hyakuren as a fairly tough, ready for anything workhorse.

If you really want a thin yet relitavely tough knife, Sukenari's YXR7 knives may fit the bill. It's stainless clad semistainless, very tough, thin behind the edge. Food release isn't terrible and it's not too hard to sharpen (and importantly, to deburr, given its toughness).

At this price point, you could look at one of Kippington's knives. He does monosteel carbon workhorses, workponies, and lasers. He also does a hook grind, which has an excellent food release to thickness ratio.


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## ian (May 4, 2019)

Jville said:


> Do you really need to break down chicken and break poultry bones with this knife? I think that might change sone peoples recs.



That’s part of the questionnaire, not part of the response.


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## Marcelo Amaral (May 4, 2019)

Do you like taller knives? If yes, i would recommend a Takeda. It is tougher than most japanese blades at its price point and offer great release. If you decide for a Takeda, be careful to look for one that is thin behind the edge.


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## MrHiggins (May 4, 2019)

Easy: Toyama, Toyama, Toyama.


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## 5698k (May 4, 2019)

Did anyone mention Toyama? If no..Toyama.


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## McMan (May 4, 2019)

First, this removes chicken bones from the equation and 80 bucks from the budget: https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...roducts/rinkaku-semi-stainless-150mm-honesuki

Past that, my suggestion would be to grab the Wakui from Ashy on BST: https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/wakui-migaki-ss-white-2-240mm-gyuto.41596/

These two knives would together would be $250. Then, hang tight with the rest of the budget. Spend some time using the Wakui and the Izakuchi that you have and reflecting on what you like and don't like about each. Then, report back for round two 

The term workhorse isn't really an absolute... For some, a Mac Pro checks the box perfectly, for others everything pales in comparison to a Kato.
The Wakui will tackle everything on your list well, it's an excellent value, and it's easy to sharpen.

Oh yeah, another way to spend that extra $250 is on stones


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## Elliot (May 4, 2019)

Toyama is the play.


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## Jville (May 4, 2019)

ian said:


> That’s part of the questionnaire, not part of the response.


Lol, my bad. Im kinda of tired tonight. Toyama and the new mazakis would both fit the bill. The old mazakis that i used werent that great with root veg. Toyama was much better imo. But the new mazaki i used was a really great cutter. I put it through cabbage and it was great. It might be even better cutter than toyama, maybe. Im a huge fan of takayuki ginsan. Its one of my favorite knives. It might not be quite as good on root veg as the others mentioned, but its pretty good on them.


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## MrHiggins (May 4, 2019)

Like I (and others) have said, Toyama is a solid choice. However, I recently received a Kochi Migaki from JKI that also might fit your needs. Because I haven't played around with it as much, I didn't remember to recommend it.

Compared to my Mizakis, it's a bit more robust. The convex grind is absolutely flawless, and JKI's burnt chestnut handle is the best off-the-shelf handle you can buy. 

Anyway, if you can't find a toyama, Kochi Migaki may be another nice option to consider.


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## Yertle27 (May 4, 2019)

Jville said:


> Do you really need to break down chicken and break poultry bones with this knife? I think that might change sone peoples recs.



Nope- never would


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## Yertle27 (May 4, 2019)

Thanks for all of the suggestions! Might have to go Toyoma if I can find one. I've read quite a bit about them on here.


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## MrHiggins (May 4, 2019)

Kochi choil vs Toyama choil:


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## labor of love (May 5, 2019)

Which kochi line is that? None of mine ever looked like that at all.


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## lemeneid (May 5, 2019)

Yertle27 said:


> Thanks for all of the suggestions! Might have to go Toyoma if I can find one. I've read quite a bit about them on here.


If you can't get a Toyama, you can always get a Watanabe. They're the same knife and both come in stainless clad options if that appeals to you too


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## Jon-cal (May 5, 2019)

So, I had a 240 Toyama based on a lot of workhorse recommendations here and it really didn’t click with me. It was a nice knife but a lot thinner and lighter than I was expecting and not quite in the workhorse camp. Seems like the newer ones are thinner like mine. I recently picked up a 270 Wat and it’s killer. I love it. It’s a lot thicker and a lot more convex than the Toyama I had. I’m not trying to start another Wat vs Toyama thing. Just, try for a heavier Wat or Toyama if a workhorse is really what you’re after. It makes a difference.


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## YG420 (May 5, 2019)

Kochis are so underrated


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## Nemo (May 5, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> If you can't get a Toyama, you can always get a Watanabe. They're the same knife and both come in stainless clad options if that appeals to you too


A lit of people assert that they are the same knife but I wonder about this.


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## labor of love (May 5, 2019)

Nemo said:


> A lit of people assert that they are the same knife but I wonder about this.


I say stuff like that in passing using a sarcastic tone. But I agree. Wat and Toyama aren’t that interchangeable with regard to grind.


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## Gregmega (May 5, 2019)

For 500 get a Kochi and a Mazaki. Problem solved.


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## Matus (May 5, 2019)

Kochi, Munetoshi, Hinoura (the one in white#2 from cleancut.se), Toyama, Watanabe (=Toyama), Kochi, Mazaki, Wakui, the list goes on. Obviously - these have quite different grinds. I had recently the Hinoura in hand and it was very nicely made.


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## labor of love (May 5, 2019)

Can the OP elaborate on what he means when he says “workhorse”?
I’m guessing you want a heavy knife that doesn’t wedge through food?
Best bet is to find a super tall knife with a high grind up most of the blade. Watanabe and Toyama is probably the best bet. Maybe Mazaki.


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## ThinMan (May 5, 2019)

Toyama 270 is in stock at JNS. It is a beast of a knife that cuts everything well.


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## Michi (May 5, 2019)

Kramer 10” Carbon might be another option.


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## MrHiggins (May 5, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Which kochi line is that? None of mine ever looked like that at all.


Blue 2 Migaki.


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## DitmasPork (May 5, 2019)

Gregmega said:


> For 500 get a Kochi and a Mazaki. Problem solved.


+1 Yes, what he said!


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## Tanalasta (May 5, 2019)

I have the Toyama and Mazaki. As well as a Takayuki Syousin Sakura Ginsan. 

The Toyama is very much a lighter, more nimble knife with a thin edge but I’d pick the 240mm Mazaki with the handle upgrade from KNS for a daily user. It’s relatively more affordable and I just very much enjoy its profile and versatility. 

White2 iron clad so will need to be wiped and cared for more so than Ginsan of stainless blue options. The Takayuki is a monster. Blade heavy. But the sharpest out of box edge I’ve had. I’m not sure how easy it will be to keep that way!


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## labor of love (May 5, 2019)

MrHiggins said:


> Blue 2 Migaki.


Okay never used one of those.


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## DitmasPork (May 5, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Can the OP elaborate on what he means when he says “workhorse”?
> I’m guessing you want a heavy knife that doesn’t wedge through food?
> Best bet is to find a super tall knife with a high grind up most of the blade. Watanabe and Toyama is probably the best bet. Maybe Mazaki.



Three tallish profile gyutos—Watanabe, Kochi, Mazaki.


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## daddy yo yo (May 5, 2019)

I would reckon those qualify as 240 workhorses:

Kochi Migaki 205g
Kochi KU 215g
Watanabe KU (with small spine change) 230g
Watanabe (with small spine change) 205g
Toyama 215g


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## Carl Kotte (May 5, 2019)

daddy yo yo said:


> I would reckon those qualify as 240 workhorses:
> 
> Kochi Migaki 205g
> Kochi KU 215g
> ...



WOW!


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## ian (May 5, 2019)

daddy yo yo said:


> I would reckon those qualify as 240 workhorses:
> 
> Kochi Migaki 205g
> Kochi KU 215g
> ...



My hero.


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## mc2442 (May 5, 2019)

That is a great collection of choil shots which can be a pain in the ass to do!

And sorry, useless repetition of what has been said before....you can never go wrong with Kochi's, normally considered a workhorse but very thin behind the edge, great cutter. My 240 Toyoma feels like a much more substantial knife (recently got a stainless clad 210 which feels like a much different, lighter and more nimble, knife than its big brother), plows thru food.

I just got a workhorse knife from Kippington that promises to be a great knife. It is a beast (for me as a home cook) at 255 mm x 57 mm, and 286 grams. I have not used it extensively but it has very good food release, cleanly and easily cuts thru large carrots, just a little little wedging on some hard granny smith apples. I already had a work pony and will get a laser from him at some point to complete the collection. Great guy to work with.


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## daveb (May 5, 2019)

A 210 by any maker would be too light for my primary prep knife. If you like the Ikazuchi, suggest you hit Jon up with your requirements and ask him for a recommendation. 

I play around with different knives when I can but my money maker is always a Gengetsu.


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## chinacats (May 5, 2019)

MrHiggins said:


> Like I (and others) have said, Toyama is a solid choice. However, I recently received a Kochi Migaki from JKI that also might fit your needs. Because I haven't played around with it as much, I didn't remember to recommend it.
> 
> Compared to my Mizakis, it's a bit more robust. The convex grind is absolutely flawless, and JKI's burnt chestnut handle is the best off-the-shelf handle you can buy.
> 
> Anyway, if you can't find a toyama, Kochi Migaki may be another nice option to consider.



Curse you! I've owned a couple of the wide bevel Kochis and had convinced myself I'd not like the blue 2 migaki...now i want one.


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## labor of love (May 5, 2019)

Love that KU watanabe


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## ian (May 5, 2019)

chinacats said:


> Curse you! I've owned a couple of the wide bevel Kochis and had convinced myself I'd not like the blue 2 migaki...now i want one.



I know, I had the same reaction. Last time I was at JKI I handled one of the migaki for a couple minutes and thought it felt super heavy. It’s probably because the balance point is farther forward, since JKI lists it as 212g vs 200 for the KU. Or maybe it’s just my inaccurate memory. But now I want one.

PSA: there’s only one left at JKI. May the odds be forever in your favor.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 5, 2019)

Kochi stainless clad is a beautiful blade. The ku clading is tough and highly textured. Has a lot of character why get another shiny knife mix it up a little. Chestnut handle is sweet.


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## Chef Doom (May 5, 2019)

Heiji semi stainless


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## dwalker (May 5, 2019)

Chef Doom said:


> Heiji semi stainless


The beastiest.


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## lucabrasi (May 5, 2019)

Watanabe is my favorite of this type by far, as long as you’re ok with a good bit of reactivity. 

Powers through ingredients better than any I’ve tried. Have not tried the Toyama though the stainless clad, if it’s anything like the Watanabe in performance may be my perfect blade. 

Just heard about that for the first time in this thread. Just a matter of time now.


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## chinacats (May 5, 2019)

lucabrasi said:


> Watanabe is my favorite of this type by far, as long as you’re ok with a good bit of reactivity.
> 
> Powers through ingredients better than any I’ve tried. Have not tried the Toyama though the stainless clad, if it’s anything like the Watanabe in performance may be my perfect blade.
> 
> Just heard about that for the first time in this thread. Just a matter of time now.



I found that once i sanded the face after a thinning that it became much less reactive than the stock finish. Ymmv

Oh and Wat is now selling ss clad pro gyutos now as well (hmmm)...


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## labor of love (May 5, 2019)

Maybe it’s all in my head but watanabe is some of the least reactive soft iron I’ve ever used.


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## ian (May 5, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Maybe it’s all in my head but watanabe is some of the least reactive soft iron I’ve ever used.



Agreed. My Watanabe wears a raincoat, while my Mazaki wears blue suede.


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## chinacats (May 5, 2019)

daddy yo yo said:


> I would reckon those qualify as 240 workhorses:
> 
> Kochi Migaki 205g
> Kochi KU 215g
> ...



Those are by far the sexiest Wats I've ever seen--especially that ku. I'm curious what you asked for when ordering? Do they cut as nice as they look?


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## lucabrasi (May 5, 2019)

Hmm. Hasn’t been my experience, doesn’t seem to take much for mine to take on rust. More so than other full reactive blades I have tried. 

I looked at Watanabe’s site and didn’t see that he’s doing stainless clad in 240. I asked him years ago and got no response. I’d definitely be picking one up...at some point.


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## chinacats (May 5, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Maybe it’s all in my head but watanabe is some of the least reactive soft iron I’ve ever used.



That's funny, I've seen much worse but it was enough to make me glad it improved w refinish... definitely enjoyed it more after thinning (well of course i did). I think it must have a lot to do w specific ingredients people tend to cut...for example i never thought Shigs were very reactive.


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## chinacats (May 5, 2019)

lucabrasi said:


> I looked at Watanabe’s site and didn’t see that he’s doing stainless clad in 240. I asked him years ago and got no response. I’d definitely be picking one up...at some point.



http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/index.htm

But something is strange...i only see 270 ku? I also don't see the kasumi 240 listed?


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## labor of love (May 5, 2019)

Mazaki and shig were way more reactive than watanabe in my experience. 
OP you still here somewhere?


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## mattador (May 6, 2019)

Anyone try one of these yet? https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/new/products/itsuo-doi-aogami

They seem to be a solid contender in the workhorse category.


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## Illyria (May 6, 2019)

Loving my 210 Watanabe. Had a bit of thinning (tip) and rounding of the spine and choil, which improved the comfort by a lot.

Reactivity isn't bad at all. 

Feel just a tiny bit underwhelmed by the edge retention after hearing how good it's supposed to be, though.


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## labor of love (May 6, 2019)

mattador said:


> Anyone try one of these yet? https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/new/products/itsuo-doi-aogami
> 
> They seem to be a solid contender in the workhorse category.


If I was right handed I’d take a chance.


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## Nemo (May 6, 2019)

Illyria said:


> Loving my 210 Watanabe. Had a bit of thinning (tip) and rounding of the spine and choil, which improved the comfort by a lot.
> 
> Reactivity isn't bad at all.
> 
> Feel just a tiny bit underwhelmed by the edge retention after hearing how good it's supposed to be, though.


Factory edge on the Wats is often zero grind. Did you put your own edge on it?


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## Illyria (May 6, 2019)

Nemo said:


> Factory edge on the Wats is often zero grind. Did you put your own edge on it?



I did.

Currently going chosera 800 > king 4000 > Gesshin synthetic natural, which leaves a great refined edge on it, with plenty of toothiness. 

Just feels like it gets dull a bit quicker than I expected it to. Maybe from cutting fairly acidic ingredients at work?


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## labor of love (May 6, 2019)

Illyria said:


> I did.
> 
> Currently going chosera 800 > king 4000 > Gesshin synthetic natural, which leaves a great refined edge on it, with plenty of toothiness.
> 
> Just feels like it gets dull a bit quicker than I expected it to. Maybe from cutting fairly acidic ingredients at work?


Well first of all, when you say the edge retention is underwhelming I wonder what knife you’re comparing it to.


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## Illyria (May 6, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Well first of all, when you say the edge retention is underwhelming I wonder what knife you’re comparing it to.



Shihan A2 line and to a slightly lesser extent his 52100 line. 

Definitely better than the SKD Yoshikane I had, though.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 6, 2019)

Daddy yo that is a fine group of 240mm. Most pro cooks ever own knives as good as those. Nice how you went through the choil shots.


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## daddy yo yo (May 6, 2019)

chinacats said:


> Those are by far the sexiest Wats I've ever seen--especially that ku. I'm curious what you asked for when ordering? Do they cut as nice as they look?


My request was quite simple: I had a side shot of a standard Watanabe 240 and only drew a new spine curve to the tip (tip position unchanged). Everything else remained as standard. You can see the difference in spine shapes especially between the (modification requested by me) Watanabe and the (standard) Toyama. Usually the Watanabe comes with that Toyama-like spine shape.

And yes, they cut as nice as they look!


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## Marcelo Amaral (May 6, 2019)

@daddy yo you: In your first choil shot, the Toyama choil seems to be much fatter behind the edge than the Watanabe. How does it cut compared to your Watanabes?


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## lucabrasi (May 6, 2019)

Perhaps Watanabe will no longer make the iron clad kasumi line? As much as I love mine, it would be in my hand a whole lot more if it were stainless clad. Will probably be pulling the ole switcheroo after my mortgage application gets through digging through my reckless spending habits.


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## DitmasPork (May 6, 2019)

lucabrasi said:


> Perhaps Watanabe will no longer make the iron clad kasumi line? As much as I love mine, it would be in my hand a whole lot more if it were stainless clad. Will probably be pulling the ole switcheroo after my mortgage application gets through digging through my reckless spending habits.


Watanabe is only doing Ss clad now, as of last month.


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## Elliot (May 6, 2019)

DitmasPork said:


> Watanabe is only doing Ss clad now, as of last month.



Hahaha, as if we needed more proof of the Toyamanabe truth.


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## DitmasPork (May 6, 2019)

Elliot said:


> Hahaha, as if we needed more proof of the Toyamanabe truth.


Watayama.


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## labor of love (May 6, 2019)

Only Stainless Clad?


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## daveb (May 6, 2019)

Got a carbon suji from him last week. Seems the rumor mill is spinning pretty quick.


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## Nemo (May 6, 2019)

Elliot said:


> Hahaha, as if we needed more proof of the Toyamanabe truth.


Or his steel supplier is the same as Toyama's.

Remember that people look to this forum as an authoritative source of information. We should try not to post speculation as though it is fact.


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## Matus (May 6, 2019)

For the sake of the OP let’s not turn this thread to another Watanabe/Toyama thread. Thank you.


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## daveb (May 6, 2019)

Wat's up with the Toys?

Gengetsu is still the correct answer.


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## chinacats (May 6, 2019)

I liked the Gengetsu a lot but if i were leaning this way I'd say go w the somewhat similar Kagero... and get you some pm steel.

I'm not a big fan of stainless or western handles but i really liked this knife and would call it a WH.


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## labor of love (May 6, 2019)

Where is the OP?


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## daveb (May 6, 2019)

In Minneapolis showing his buddies how crazy we are.....


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## chinacats (May 6, 2019)

...while using his new kamikota...


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## DitmasPork (May 6, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Only Stainless Clad?



According to Shinichi via email:

Me (April 18): Thanks for the info. When did you stop making iron clad gyutos?
Shinichi (April 18): Thanks for your reply. I stopped it in this month.
Shinichi (April 19): Sorry, we no longer make carbon clad Gyuto.


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## chinacats (May 6, 2019)

Me: Well **** Me!


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## labor of love (May 6, 2019)

Sheeeeit.


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## labor of love (May 6, 2019)

Edit


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## ian (May 6, 2019)

daveb said:


> Wat's up with the Toys?
> 
> Gengetsu is still the correct answer.



Indeed. Surprisingly to some, the answer to "TF or Watanabe" is not Toyama, but Gengetsu.


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## Jville (May 6, 2019)

DitmasPork said:


> According to Shinichi via email:
> 
> Me (April 18): Thanks for the info. When did you stop making iron clad gyutos?
> Shinichi (April 18): Thanks for your reply. I stopped it in this month.
> Shinichi (April 19): Sorry, we no longer make carbon clad Gyuto.



Interesting. I actually like the iron clad toyamas, oh well.


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## labor of love (May 6, 2019)

Jville said:


> Interesting. I actually like the iron clad toyamas, oh well.


Oh collectors item!


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## Keith Sinclair (May 6, 2019)

I've had & have Ku iron clad liked them at work not as much at home. A little more care so they stay looking good. The Kochi changed my mind on stainless Ku blades.


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## Jville (May 7, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Oh collectors item!



I should probably grab a gyuto, while tgey are still obtainable. Im not a big 210 guy, but i loved the toyama 210 gyuto i had.). The 240 was obviously great too.


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## labor of love (May 7, 2019)

I owned 2 Toyamas, one was 215grams the other was 240grams. The 240gram tank I much preferred.
Both were 240mm


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## Jville (May 7, 2019)

labor of love said:


> I owned 2 Toyamas, one was 215grams the other was 240grams. The 240gram tank I much preferred.
> Both were 240mm


Both of the 240s i had were a little thinner i think than some others that ive heard of. I believe around 7.5 oz. They were great though, really good cutters, especially through dense product like sweet potatoes. I would think the food release on them was probably not as good, but they were all around pure cutters.


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## lemeneid (May 7, 2019)

My Toyama 240mm was 261grams. It was a lot of knife, but I’d go even heavier if I could, maybe 270??


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## labor of love (May 7, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> My Toyama 240mm was 261grams. It was a lot of knife, but I’d go even heavier if I could, maybe 270??


Yes. My wat 270mm was a monster. At a certain point the heft is doing all the work for you. You just have to find the strength to hold such a mighty blade for long periods of time.
Maybe more fun than practical, or maybe not.


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## MrHiggins (May 7, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> My Toyama 240mm was 261grams. It was a lot of knife, but I’d go even heavier if I could, maybe 270??


My toyama 270 is 260gr. Seems like a ton of variation with these knives.


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## labor of love (May 7, 2019)

The 270mm(260mm) shigehiro I just purchased is an elegant beast. Much more narrow than watanabe but still quite a force to be reckoned with. 264grams.
OP is missing out on some great dialogue here.


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## valgard (May 7, 2019)

My Watanabe Kasumi is something like 238mm long and 239g, the KU is 260mm is 284g. Both have a few g shaved off the spine as I made them pointier but also a few extra g from having wider neck. Both are beasts of their own but the KU is my heaviest gyuto by a good 20g.


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## Gregmega (May 7, 2019)

labor of love said:


> The 270mm(260mm) shigehiro I just purchased is an elegant beast. Much more narrow than watanabe but still quite a force to be reckoned with. 264grams.
> OP is missing out on some great dialogue here.



If only those Shigehiro weren’t so short in the heel. They look so sick. But even the 240 is south of 48. [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]


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## labor of love (May 7, 2019)

Gregmega said:


> If only those Shigehiro weren’t so short in the heel. They look so sick. But even the 240 is south of 48. [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]


Yeah. I know. I stared at the product page for years before taking a chance.
Happy I did though. We’re still on our honeymoon but I’m pretty sure we’re gonna get along just fine.
There’s something about the profile and grind and how nimble it feels in use that just makes me forget it’s only 50mm tall.
If nothing else it’s a very cool knife worth test driving if you ever get the chance.


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## Gregmega (May 7, 2019)

I’m still looking myself. Probably going to grab one in the 240 eventually. And a 180 petty. Oh and probably the 270 suji as well. [emoji23]


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## lemeneid (May 7, 2019)

MrHiggins said:


> My toyama 270 is 260gr. Seems like a ton of variation with these knives.


Well I swapped out the D handle for an ebony and marble one. I’m guessing it adds a few grams but I’m not sure. The default weight is probably closer to 230-240g.


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## rickbern (May 7, 2019)

McMan said:


> First, this removes chicken bones from the equation and 80 bucks from the budget: https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...roducts/rinkaku-semi-stainless-150mm-honesuki
> 
> Past that, my suggestion would be to grab the Wakui from Ashy on BST: https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/wakui-migaki-ss-white-2-240mm-gyuto.41596/
> 
> ...



McMan, don’t know what happened to the op but I took your advice and bought Ashy’s wakui. Thanks!


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## DitmasPork (May 7, 2019)

Jville said:


> Interesting. I actually like the iron clad toyamas, oh well.



From a practical perspective, SS makes more sense, but personally I like carbon cladding, and the stainless are 2,000JPY more than what the carbon clad were.


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## ashy2classy (May 7, 2019)

rickbern said:


> McMan, don’t know what happened to the op but I took your advice and bought Ashy’s wakui. Thanks!


It's a fantastic knife, Rick (thanks again!). It's pretty light and thin so I wouldn't call it a workhorse, per se, but it should do everything you need without issue. Wakui makes great blades and is amazingly consistent with F&F. IMO, his knives are THE BEST value around. Hope you enjoy it!


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## Nemo (May 7, 2019)

ashy2classy said:


> It's a fantastic knife, Rick (thanks again!). It's pretty light and thin so I wouldn't call it a workhorse, per se, but it should do everything you need without issue. Wakui makes great blades and is amazingly consistent with F&F. IMO, his knives are THE BEST value around. Hope you enjoy it!


Agree on the Wakui value proposition.

Mine is a Tsuchime and it's definitely a workhorse. Great knife.


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## McMan (May 7, 2019)

rickbern said:


> McMan, don’t know what happened to the op but I took your advice and bought Ashy’s wakui. Thanks!



Ha! Good call. Hope you like it [emoji846]


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## Jville (May 7, 2019)

DitmasPork said:


> From a practical perspective, SS makes more sense, but personally I like carbon cladding, and the stainless are 2,000JPY more than what the carbon clad were.


Agree


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## Chef Doom (May 9, 2019)

dwalker said:


> The beastiest.
> View attachment 52758
> View attachment 52759
> View attachment 52760


It's good to have like minds around the globe.


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## labor of love (May 9, 2019)

Nemo said:


> Agree on the Wakui value proposition.
> 
> Mine is a Tsuchime and it's definitely a workhorse. Great knife.


I never got a chance to thank you for the description of your wakui that you PMed me.
Gracias


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## Nemo (May 9, 2019)

labor of love said:


> I never got a chance to thank you for the description of your wakui that you PMed me.
> Gracias


No problem.

Did you get to use one?


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## labor of love (May 9, 2019)

Nah, my interest are elsewhere at the moment.


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## bahamaroot (May 9, 2019)

Marko convex grind in 52100.


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## Yertle27 (May 12, 2019)

daddy yo yo said:


> I would reckon those qualify as 240 workhorses:
> 
> Kochi Migaki 205g
> Kochi KU 215g
> ...




Thanks for posting this, extremely helpful!


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## Yertle27 (May 12, 2019)

Thanks everyone for your input, really appreciate it.


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## lumo (May 12, 2019)

Gregmega said:


> If only those Shigehiro weren’t so short in the heel. They look so sick. But even the 240 is south of 48. [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]


Same, I like 'em tall and thick



Gregmega said:


> I’m still looking myself. Probably going to grab one in the 240 eventually. And a 180 petty. Oh and probably the 270 suji as well. [emoji23]


Got you covered on the 270 suji, used a few times never sharpened, was gonna drop it off with Jon tomorrow, trade?

Sorry to derail!

Also sorry to sound like a broken record but Toyama has been my go to for years.
Beside that I'll forever regret gifting a KU kochi and today's Mother's Day brunch was conquered by a Heiji semi stainless. I rarely go full stainless but when I do I use a Mario Ingoglia


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## Gregmega (May 12, 2019)

lumo said:


> Same, I like 'em tall and thick
> 
> 
> Got you covered on the 270 suji, used a few times never sharpened, was gonna drop it off with Jon tomorrow, trade?
> ...



Yeah man, let’s chat[emoji7].


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## daddy yo yo (May 14, 2019)

bahamaroot said:


> Marko convex grind in 52100.


I really don't think he's an option*. There are plenty of fantastic makers out there. 

*I have met him once, very nice guy. Had a chat with him over a beer. We discussed my custom order from January 2013. I am waiting for my custom ever since (that is more than 6 years). And we have all seen plenty of custom knives ordered (even years) later than January 2013... Contacted him again last September when he last posted some Honyaki blades here. As always, you write back and forth with him 2 or 3 times, we discussed my knife, he said "_won't take me long_". Haven't heard from him since September. Apparently he doesn't need my money, so I gladly spend it elsewhere.


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## daveb (May 14, 2019)

Two 240mm Gengetsu avail on Reddit Chef Knife Swap. 1 stainless, 1 carbon. (I have no $$ interest in either)


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## chinacats (May 14, 2019)

daddy yo yo said:


> I really don't think he's an option*. There are plenty of fantastic makers out there.
> 
> *I have met him once, very nice guy. Had a chat with him over a beer. We discussed my custom order from January 2013. I am waiting for my custom ever since (that is more than 6 years). And we have all seen plenty of custom knives ordered (even years) later than January 2013... Contacted him again last September when he last posted some Honyaki blades here. As always, you write back and forth with him 2 or 3 times, we discussed my knife, he said "_won't take me long_". Haven't heard from him since September. Apparently he doesn't need my money, so I gladly spend it elsewhere.




LOL, i got on his waiting list in 2012... bought a ready made ~2013...seen plenty of his knives... think he really doesn't need anyone's money... only sure thing here is bst.


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## Yertle27 (May 14, 2019)

daveb said:


> Two 240mm Gengetsu avail on Reddit Chef Knife Swap. 1 stainless, 1 carbon. (I have no $$ interest in either)


 
Thanks for the heads up!


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## daveb (May 14, 2019)

Now there's one on here - great price.


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## labor of love (May 14, 2019)

chinacats said:


> LOL, i got on his waiting list in 2012... bought a ready made ~2013...seen plenty of his knives... think he really doesn't need anyone's money... only sure thing here is bst.


Yeah it is what it is. You can have knives ready in literally 2 weeks or 4 years from Marko. More often than not it’s the later.
Oh well, I’d rather focus on the guys that are really great to work with like the 9 and Kippington.


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## chinacats (May 14, 2019)

Kippington is my next custom.

What exactly is the 9 all about? Keep reading mentions but don't seem to see many knives? You rocking one?


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## labor of love (May 14, 2019)

Had one a while back-will be working him again soon. Just a super cool dude that makes pretty knives down under.


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## labor of love (May 14, 2019)

China you should find him Instagram.


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## chinacats (May 14, 2019)

Will do, thanks!


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## thebradleycrew (May 14, 2019)

@chinacats : FWIW, I've had a TheNine gyuto that I used then sold and have a honyaki on the way next week. They are excellent knives and Robert is a really good guy making nice stuff in Australia. I suspect he'll get more and more popular with time. His knives are already excellent. I'd compare them in terms of quality and overall style as similar to Joe at Halycon Forge or Trey at Comet, both superb makers.


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## lemeneid (May 15, 2019)

All the OZ knife makers make really good ****!


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## chinacats (May 15, 2019)

Thanks tbc, heard very good things about Joe and Trey as well. So many really good makers now it's rather hard to decide


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## Nemo (May 15, 2019)

chinacats said:


> So many really good makers now it's rather hard to decide



I reckon that this is a pretty good problem to have.


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## Huntdad (Jul 3, 2019)

Concur.


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## panda (Jul 3, 2019)

japanese - heiji, tf maboroshi
non *** - mario, marko, kippington


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## Kozuka (Jul 3, 2019)

Japanese - WataPro / Wakui
EU - Kamon Knives


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## Jville (Jul 3, 2019)

Takayuki ginsans are really good!


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## jonnachang (Jul 3, 2019)

Heji, Watanabe and Toyama will all fit the bill very nicely


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 5, 2019)

Would never limit myself to one type of blade. Like thick & thin, tall and narrow. Different blades are suited for various types of foods and prep. Like sushi and sashimi, forward push cut & chopping tall blades, peeling, slicing narrow blades.


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## Eitan78 (Jul 5, 2019)

Tsourkan 52100 workhorse


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## Barclid (Jul 5, 2019)

Eitan78 said:


> Tsourkan 52100 workhorse View attachment 56273



I'm not one for chunkier blades in general, but I got to see and use these the other day and I'll just say this: impressive work. Great distal taper, nice and thin behind the edge, great fit and finish and a breeze to sharpen.


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## Eitan78 (Jul 5, 2019)




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## Kippington (Jul 6, 2019)

Barclid said:


> I'm not one for chunkier blades in general, but I got to see and use these the other day and I'll just say this: impressive work. Great distal taper, nice and thin behind the edge, great fit and finish and a breeze to sharpen.


I agree 100%. As a laser fan myself, it's surprising how popular these thicker knives are.


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## Barclid (Jul 6, 2019)

Kippington said:


> I agree 100%. As a laser fan myself, it's surprising how popular these thicker knives are.



I'm in the same boat. But it's like they say; there's no accounting for taste. I think it also depends on what sort of prep/cutting tasks you do and the type of food you cook. These are plenty thin behind the edge for me, but I'm used to having my guard hand much closer to inline with the apex. I don't think I worded that well but hopefully you get my drift.


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