# Chinese cleavers- lend me your knowledge.



## Nemo

I've been thinking about cleavers/ chukabus. Realised I don't know enough.

Are there diffferent styles? Is stainless or carbon best (I realise the answer is probably "depends", but tell me what it depends on)? Who makes good ones? What are the pros & cons of the different makers and styles? In comparison to gyutos, what's good and problematic about them?

Thanks for your perspectives.


----------



## khashy

If you want to try one out, get a CCK 1303. Very cheap and super thin. Fantastic for veg and takes a keen edge. Really good bang for buck.

Don't expect f&f but I think it's a great starter if you've never used cleavers.

Don't get the super cheapo supermarket crap. It'll put you off cleavers forever


----------



## khashy

I'd add that in terms of style, there definitely are huge variations. I've tried CCK 1301,1302,1101,1102,1103 and their bone/barbecue cleavers. They are all different and have a different feel to them. For me for example, I found the extra length of the 1302 and the 1301 kind of messed up the balance and the wider 110x range was a bit too heavy for me. 
It's best to try them in person if you can.

I also have a Leung Tim stainless barbecue cleaver which is just a beast. Far too heavy, but man, it makes me feel like Thor when I use it [emoji6]


----------



## Nemo

Thanks Khashy


----------



## Noodle Soup

China is a big place and there are lots of regional variations in cleavers. The CCK 1303 is a good place to start but I like a slightly larger blade with a little rocker in the edge. I collect Asian cleavers from where ever I travel so I have a few dozen to pick from but my fall back model is one I bought in a Hanoi cutlery shop. Not much to look at but it cuts well and has the rocker I like.


----------



## Bobbin

Noodle Soup said:


> The CCK 1303 is a good place to start....



It looks like there is a new version of the CCK 1303 out now in stainless. Anyone tried this steel? If it's something like AEB-L, it might hold up well, but could also be a softer steel.


----------



## labor of love

Trusted members have spoken highly of sugimoto stainless cleavers in the past, personally I'd rather go in that direction.


----------



## valgard

If you want to try for CHEAP look into aliexpress.com. There are Shibazi and Deng cleavers for $30 or less. It's a bit of a pain to find out things but you will pay a lot less to try. I've ordered a $30 from there to alleviate my need to buy something but it's still on the way.
Disclaimer: I know nothing about Chinese cleavers other than what I've read or been told by people.
Just an example (I hope this link is not against the rules)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/11-11-Special-Offer-Shibazi-Carbon-Composite-Steel-Professional-Fillet-Knife-Kitchen-Cooking-Chef-Slicing-Meat/32510865321.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.286.ykZgIN


----------



## wind88

I bought a CCK 1303 recently and had prepared a few meals with it.

I love it, it feels really natural to me after using it just 2-3 times.

The height and thinness of the blade make it an absolute joy in prepping veggies.

It even did a superb job handling a few racks of spareribs when I made dinner last night.

For the money (paid about $73 CAD), I'm kind of wondering why I spent all those $$ on expensive gyutos when it does everything I wanted pretty darn well for a home cook.


----------



## Noodle Soup

valgard said:


> If you want to try for CHEAP look into aliexpress.com. There are Shibazi and Deng cleavers for $30 or less. It's a bit of a pain to find out things but you will pay a lot less to try. I've ordered a $30 from there to alleviate my need to buy something but it's still on the way.
> Disclaimer: I know nothing about Chinese cleavers other than what I've read or been told by people.
> Just an example (I hope this link is not against the rules)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/11-11-Special-Offer-Shibazi-Carbon-Composite-Steel-Professional-Fillet-Knife-Kitchen-Cooking-Chef-Slicing-Meat/32510865321.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.286.ykZgIN



I'm a fan of Shibazi cleavers. They make a wide range from inexpensive home use types to full professional grade. Given a choice I would probably take them over CCK but the difference is very small.


----------



## Nemo

Thanks guys. Keep the opinions coming.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

The biggest thing for me is radious of the blade. If it's not nearly flat it's unusable for me. Nothing is more disappointing than finding your cleaver accordions just about everything after paying big money for it.


----------



## Noodle Soup

Chicagohawkie said:


> The biggest thing for me is radious of the blade. If it's not nearly flat it's unusable for me. Nothing is more disappointing than finding your cleaver accordions just about everything after paying big money for it.



And I totally disagree. A cleaver needs some rocker in the edge to be a good general purpose blade. I have used plenty of both to come to that conclusion. I have a heavy, very straight edged model from Yangshuo I use for dicing meat but I have never found it to be useful for much else.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Noodle Soup said:


> And I totally disagree. A cleaver needs some rocker in the edge to be a good general purpose blade. I have used plenty of both to come to that conclusion. I have a heavy, very straight edged model from Yangshuo I use for dicing meat but I have never found it to be useful for much else.



a bit of radious towards the nose is great. If you use a cleaver as I do, as a chopper, then a flat cleaver I find is best. I'm not the only one who perfers flat cleavers, there are many and the topic comes up frequently.


----------



## schanop

This semi-stainless chukka is quite ideal for an all-rounder home use, at least for me any way. It has a bit of curve, but still relatively straight. Nose can be rounded/raised a little so that it won't dig into the soft cutting board too much. And it is semi-stainless so keeping it clean is easy, but still sharpen and hold an edge like a good quality carbon steel one.








Rush to BST for a very good deal as is.


----------



## Nemo

It's beginning to look like a whole nuther rabbit hole!


----------



## XooMG

I recommend not spending big money unless you have a pretty clear idea what sort of profile and size are most appealing to you. Even then, it is sometimes the case that you won't feel pressure to get an expensive one.

My first kitchen knife was a common 18*10cm household cleaver that worked reasonably well, but after a bit of exploration, I decided I liked either smaller (18*8) or slightly longer (19.5*10) models. With belly, I'm in the middle group...I like a shallow continuous curve for sliding cuts.

Chinese cooking and cook preferences are varied enough that a personal exploration of what's available is probably better than letting a few internet folks try to steer you.


----------



## Nemo

Good advice. Thanks Xoo.


----------



## labor of love

If you want to take it slow and not invest much maybe check these out. http://pacificknives.com/product/shibazi-chinese-cleaver-210mm/
Upgraded handles yet still affordable.


----------



## Noodle Soup

Chicagohawkie said:


> a bit of radious towards the nose is great. If you use a cleaver as I do, as a chopper, then a flat cleaver I find is best. I'm not the only one who perfers flat cleavers, there are many and the topic comes up frequently.


Cleavers are used for a lot more than just chopping in Chinese cooking. I would agree with you about the straight edge if chopping was my only use for the knife. Like XooMG said, a long gentle curve makes a good compromise.


----------



## foody518

I use my Suien VC to halve corn on the cobs so they'll fit in my pot :3
IMO the curve/belly question has a height relative to cutting surface dependency as well


----------



## mise_en_place

XooMG said:


> I recommend not spending big money unless you have a pretty clear idea what sort of profile and size are most appealing to you. Even then, it is sometimes the case that you won't feel pressure to get an expensive one.
> 
> My first kitchen knife was a common 18*10cm household cleaver that worked reasonably well, but after a bit of exploration, I decided I liked either smaller (18*8) or slightly longer (19.5*10) models. With belly, I'm in the middle group...I like a shallow continuous curve for sliding cuts.
> 
> Chinese cooking and cook preferences are varied enough that a personal exploration of what's available is probably better than letting a few internet folks try to steer you.



I'm going to piggyback on this advice. Don't spend a lot of money on your first cleaver. 

As for my personal preference, I prefer cleavers in the 180-210 range. Height is more of a feel thing for me than a requirement, but after trying a handful of them I learned I don't like doing any sort of extended cutting with heavy 225ers. As for the profile, a not too pronounced continuous belly is best for me. 

Good luck and enjoy.


----------



## Nemo

Thans f or the advice guys


----------



## Choppin

Is anyone familiar with Nahozumi cleavers? Found them on CKTG and liked them, but google doesn't tell me anything about it...


----------



## labor of love

Choppin said:


> Is anyone familiar with Nahozumi cleavers? Found them on CKTG and liked them, but google doesn't tell me anything about it...



I wouldn't touch something like that until I heard great feedback about the product. Since it's pretty new that might take awhile.


----------



## berko

they remind me of the kagayaki ones from jck.


----------



## Silky

I have two cleavers, a Tojiro DP VG10 cleaver that is very light and laser-esque and a heavy Mizuno Tanrenjo virgin carbon cleaver. I find that the weight makes them feel significantly different. The Mizuno is significantly heavier than my regular gyutos and I found I had to adjust to the weight and different techniques to make the most of it. The Tojiro DP was much lighter, I'd compare the in-hand feeling to of a heavy 270 gyuto as far as weight is concerned, and was much more nimble and intuitive for me. The stainless is also nice on the Tojiro as I don't have to worry about wiping the blade face as much on such a huge blade while cooking, though if you like patina that might change things.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

I just got my first one - CCK 1303. Used it for prep and on the line yesterday; of course, as I expected, since I had a new knife that I was itching to use I didn't have much knife work to do, but nevertheless I enjoyed using it. It doesn't seem that there will be as much learning as I had thought/feared: going in knowing that it is a slicing knife, not a chopper or Western cleaver, and using it as a tall chef's knife, really helped. A few of my coworkers have some mass market chukas (a Shun, a Michael Symon, and a Martin Yan) and this is nothing like those. The thinness surprised me, despite the fact that it's one of the attributes everyone talks about. It was sharp enough to use out of the box, but I can't yet comment on the edge taking or edge holding because I was too excited to wait until I sharpened it. I'll definitely be thinking about upgrading at some point, but I'll join the consensus that this is a great first Chinese knife.

Also, I like how I don't have to worry about tipping it in a tight space.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what top Chinese chefs in China use? Do they use Japanese, or are there Chinese-made high-end knives that might not necessarily show up on English web searches for international sales?


----------



## Noodle Soup

I can't say there isn't a chef in some fancy Beijing place using a Japanese blade but he would be a minority. High end in China is way different than Japan. When I was in Chengdu my cooking instructor sent me to a shop he said was were the local pros shopped. Most of their cleavers ran in the $20-$40 range. A local home use model was more in the $10.00 or less range. Knife skills come before high end knives in that part of the world. 
My instructor also told me he had a buddy that was cooking in Chinese restaurant in Japan. The buddy had been telling him about the super cleavers made in Japan but there was no way he would believe anyone would pay that much for one.


----------



## foody518

@Noodle Soup - that kind of outlook makes sense to me, considering the viewpoints of my relatives and also typical income levels

Here's what I found at my grandpa's place


----------



## Noodle Soup

I have one pretty close to the top left hand one I bought from the maker in a little metal working shop never Yangshuo. Good all purpose chopper I tend to drag out when there is stock to make.


----------



## NO ChoP!

I have bought both Ching Kee Lee and Three Rams brand carbon Chinese cleavers via Ebay for far less then CCK. Unfortunately, the popularity of CCK has shot a once $25 cleaver to $60+. Also, for stainless, Shibazi is hard to beat.


----------



## Noodle Soup

I'm a fan of Shibazi too. They offer all levels of cleavers from home use to serious professional. Shibazi is one brand I found in the shops scattered in land around China. CCK I've never saw anyplace but on the web and here in the U.S.


----------



## fatboylim

Generally there are 3 types of cleaver: 
1. thin and light slicer ~300g (e.g. CCK 1303) for boneless protein and vegetables 
2. general chopper for small bones, protein and veg 400g (e.g. CCK 1103), and
3. Bone chopper +550g. Everything big. 

Generally worth experimenting with option 1, then progress to option 2 if you like clravers. Option 3 really requires a thick Butchers block to get full value.

The Japanese made Chinese cleavers will generally be option 2 size and slightly heavier if made by high end makers.


----------



## Noodle Soup

I've been playing with a Sugimoto No. 7 that the dealers refer to as a general purpose cleaver. So far it has held up to chopping chicken bones. It would be a lot of money to ding up on poultry bones so I hope that continues.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Noodle Soup said:


> I can't say there isn't a chef in some fancy Beijing place using a Japanese blade but he would be a minority. High end in China is way different than Japan. When I was in Chengdu my cooking instructor sent me to a shop he said was were the local pros shopped. Most of their cleavers ran in the $20-$40 range. A local home use model was more in the $10.00 or less range. Knife skills come before high end knives in that part of the world.
> My instructor also told me he had a buddy that was cooking in Chinese restaurant in Japan. The buddy had been telling him about the super cleavers made in Japan but there was no way he would believe anyone would pay that much for one.



Reminds me of the story of the butcher cutting an ox for the king!


----------



## Sillywizard

I agree fully with XooMG as well.
Once you do get your Chinese slicer, put away all your other knives except for your paring knives, and only use the cleaver for everything! Do this for a month to become well acquainted with your new knife before reintroducing your other knives into the rotation. This is to force you to adapt and give the cleaver a fair chance. It's a wonderful tool, the height is really an advantage, particularly in prepping vegetables!


----------



## fatboylim

Sillywizard said:


> I agree fully with XooMG as well.
> Once you do get your Chinese slicer, put away all your other knives except for your paring knives, and only use the cleaver for everything! Do this for a month to become well acquainted with your new knife before reintroducing your other knives into the rotation. This is to force you to adapt and give the cleaver a fair chance. It's a wonderful tool, the height is really an advantage, particularly in prepping vegetables!



+1 and to XooMG +1


----------



## Nemo

Yeah, I can imagine it might need a bit of technique adjustment.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

I haven't used a gyuto in a week. I'm finding the draw slice to be very good with this knife, and that's not a motion I was previously accustomed to using. Gotta watch some videos of Chinese chefs cooking with them.


----------



## doudou

well, As chinese and a big fan of Chinese Clevers, I must point out that , in China we have multipal models of the kitchen knives shares different profile.

here we have 2 Major type are made from 2 big provide which famours for its dilicious food: Sichuan and Guangdong.

Sichuang province: their knives have some kind of German chef's knive style, big curve bely. very efficent for rocking and chopping. there're several famous brands: Deng's and Lipeide shines much more than others IMHO. Both brand have carbon version and the material is something like 1055 and the HRC would be like 56-58. Deng's Stainless verion use 913(chinese version of AUS10) steel which can holds a very steep edge, but the blade edge only have like 1 inch from the blade and the rest is soft 304or 310. Lipeide is famouse for this forging process and their stainless knife use a whole 815(chinese version of AUS8) steel, their knives have perfect convex edge. if you a rock profomer, you will have big fan by using this 2 brands.

Guangdong province: Unlike Sichuan province, the knives made from this province have way much more flat bely. and the profile is almost straight. Shibazi is the biggest knive MFG is China and their knives have very standard profile, use 713 or 813 for their chef's line and have very good wood handle. the problem is their knives might have QC problem and you may find their blade is not perfectly staight, I have 2 knives have the same problem, but not a problem by using them. Shibazi's materil is something like Deng's core steel wides is only 1 inch from the blade with Sanmai structure. CCK is orginaly made from HK, however with growing labor cost, they chose some OEM to made of their knives and their material is unknown. CCK's Pro lines is for pro chefs, and if you are a home cook ,K19XX series if perfect for you.

For chinese knives , we classify them by thickness of the spine/length/weight.

we have 300g slicing knives with thin spine and works like gyuto

500g heavy knives works like deba. and also a lot of veriations like Sang Dao in Guangdong province for ultra detial work with very big blade or something like Yusheng Dao like Yanagiba to cut ultra thin fish.

In China, our Pro chef's do not focus on the knives but more on the cutting skills , some chef can cut Toufu like hair and make dishes...LOL


----------



## GorillaGrunt

How are the "Double Lions" and "Double Swords" brands compared to, e.g., Shibazi"


----------



## Noodle Soup

I have all three. I prefer Shibazi by a very small margin but I haven't really found a big difference between them.


----------



## foody518

Noodle Soup said:


> I have all three. I prefer Shibazi by a very small margin but I haven't really found a big difference between them.



Was wondering about this as well, so thank you. Good to know


----------



## Choppin

Any recommendations for an inexpensive Chinese cleaver, carbon, 180-200mm, in the "thin and light" category? Preferably with a flatter profile.


----------



## loong

you can try Sugimoto #30, I use Sugimoto OMS # 7, which is the best cleaver i have used so far.


----------



## mise_en_place

Choppin said:


> Any recommendations for an inexpensive Chinese cleaver, carbon, 180-200mm, in the "thin and light" category? *Preferably with a flatter profile.*



Have you ever used a cleaver before? Before I used them (and they're what I mostly use these days), I thought I would prefer a flatter profile. While I don't like them to be too round, I think they're continuously curved for a reason-- because it works with the technique. 

Also, how inexpensive is inexpensive? Take a look at Shibazi cleavers, regardless.

Edit: typo


----------



## Choppin

mise_en_place said:


> Have you ever used a cleaver before? Before I used them (and they're what I mostly use these days), I thought I would prefer a flatter profile. While I don't like them to be too round, I think they're continuously curved for a reason-- because it works with the technique.
> 
> Also, how inexpensive is inexpensive? Take a look at Shibazi cleavers, regardless.
> 
> Edit: typo



I'm new to cleavers, this would be my first one. I was looking for a flatter one because I'm used to nakiris and they are usually flatter that the cleavers I see around (at least my nakiris are). But you have a good point - different technique, different profile.

Will take a look at Shibazi 

Inexpensive - preferably under US$50, but cheaper the better. 

Thank!

@loong thank's!


----------



## Choppin

Also, are there any significant difference between vintage cleavers - Bernal comes up with some once in a while - and new ones? In terms of construction, profile, price-to-quality ratio, etc


----------



## mise_en_place

Choppin said:


> Also, are there any significant difference between vintage cleavers - Bernal comes up with some once in a while - and new ones? In terms of construction, profile, price-to-quality ratio, etc



I think a lot of the cleavers (especially vintage) you find on that site are Western meat cleavers. Whole different ballgame from Chinese cleavers.


----------



## Choppin

mise_en_place said:


> I think a lot of the cleavers (especially vintage) you find on that site are Western meat cleavers. Whole different ballgame from Chinese cleavers.



They offer Chinese cleavers as well (Three Sheep and Ho Ching Kee Lee are some of the makers). I was curious is there's anything about them that makes them more attractive then the new ones (in the same price range), other than collectible value


----------



## loong

Choppin said:


> Also, are there any significant difference between vintage cleavers - Bernal comes up with some once in a while - and new ones? In terms of construction, profile, price-to-quality ratio, etc



No difference in performance. You an also find a Chinese cleaver in such vintage look. My grandma use one cleaver like that.


----------



## WOK-a-holic

Read post by Andy 777 .A discourse and why I love Chinese cleavers.

go carbon steel or go home. the thinner the blade the better.

SUIEN vc Cleaver is excellent .you can buy at www.Japanesechefknives.com $160 shipped.


----------



## WOK-a-holic

Chicagohawkie said:


> The biggest thing for me is radious of the blade. If it's not nearly flat it's unusable for me. Nothing is more disappointing than finding your cleaver accordions just about everything after paying big money for it.



I agree flattered is better blade only needs the slightest possible Arc.


----------



## WOK-a-holic

Noodle Soup said:


> And I totally disagree. A cleaver needs some rocker in the edge to be a good general purpose blade. I have used plenty of both to come to that conclusion. I have a heavy, very straight edged model from Yangshuo I use for dicing meat but I have never found it to be useful for much else.



If you want belly ,German made Chef's knives offer that.

a flatter profile and thinness of blade is what separates a Chinese Cleaver from the rest.

I realized that a lot of people in China only own one knife, and they might prefer a little bit more Arc to Blade profile ,because they use that blade for every single task .


----------



## Noodle Soup

Ultra thin blades are not that popular in the parts of China I've been in. They tend to use an all-purpose weight knife that can stand up to poultry, waterfowl, large fish and other light bone chopping. They also enjoy dishes prepared with the meat still on the bone chopped up into bite sizes chunks a lot more that westerners. If I chop a chicken that way here at home everyone comes un-glued about finding bones in their food.


----------



## XooMG

I cook mostly vegetarian and the ultra thins have some advantages in that sphere. Sadly I never got into the breakdown of animals with a Chinese knife, though I think a more robust blade than what I normally use would be wise, if I were using just one knife (quite a few cooks use at least two).

Belly is something people disagree on, and I see no reason to be overconfident in my own preferences or in my very limited experience with more heterogeneous market than many claim.


----------



## Noodle Soup

This is a good example of how everyday cleavers are used in China. Duck chopped up for something I don't remember but I know we started with a live one. Bone in is normal. The instructor bought a dozen of these cleavers in the market earlier in the day. I didn't think it was heavy enough for bone chopping but he seemed to know better.


----------



## tsuriru

Noodle Soup said:


> View attachment 36217
> 
> 
> This is a good example of how everyday cleavers are used in China. Duck chopped up for something I don't remember but I know we started with a live one. Bone in is normal. The instructor bought a dozen of these cleavers in the market earlier in the day. I didn't think it was heavy enough for bone chopping but he seemed to know better.



Im sorry to sway off topic for a second, but....That is a very impressive cutting surface! could you say a few words about it?


----------



## Noodle Soup

It was the standard cutting board at the Yangshuo School of Cooking is about all I can tell you about it. Sorry.


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts

+1 to that question - bugger the duck, bugger the cleaver, but what's the board?


----------



## Benuser

WOK-a-holic said:


> Read post by Andy 777 .A discourse and why I love Chinese cleavers.
> 
> go carbon steel or go home. the thinner the blade the better.
> 
> SUIEN vc Cleaver is excellent .you can buy at www.Japanesechefknives.com $160 shipped.



https://japanesechefsknife.com/products/suien-virgin-carbon-steel-chinese-cleaver
Link corrected


----------



## Noodle Soup

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> +1 to that question - bugger the duck, bugger the cleaver, but what's the board?



Sorry I can't be of more help other than to say they sold them all over Yangshuo.


----------



## WOK-a-holic

Benuser said:


> https://japanesechefsknife.com/products/suien-virgin-carbon-steel-chinese-cleaver
> Link corrected



I stand corrected. that is the right link. thanks . ...that website has a lot of good offerings


----------



## WOK-a-holic

wow noodle soup. That's a nice looking blade you got there. what make and model is it?

Also that chopping block looks like a piece of art!:doublethumbsup:


----------



## WOK-a-holic

Sillywizard said:


> I agree fully with XooMG as well.
> Once you do get your Chinese slicer, put away all your other knives except for your paring knives, and only use the cleaver for everything! Do this for a month to become well acquainted with your new knife before reintroducing your other knives into the rotation. This is to force you to adapt and give the cleaver a fair chance. It's a wonderful tool, the height is really an advantage, particularly in prepping vegetables!



lus1: I concur. :biggrin:


----------



## Noodle Soup

WOK-a-holic said:


> wow noodle soup. That's a nice looking blade you got there. what make and model is it?
> 
> Also that chopping block looks like a piece of art!:doublethumbsup:



Sorry, it isn't my knife, it was the school's as was the chopping block. The knife wasn't anything real fancy. Like I said, they bought around a dozen in the local market while I was there. Maybe $10-$15 each.


----------



## XooMG

tsuriru said:


> Im sorry to sway off topic for a second, but....That is a very impressive cutting surface! could you say a few words about it?





Noodle Soup said:


> It was the standard cutting board at the Yangshuo School of Cooking is about all I can tell you about it. Sorry.





LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> +1 to that question - bugger the duck, bugger the cleaver, but what's the board?


They are a somewhat common board made of bamboo chunks glued together and bound with a metal ring. They look neat but I prefer wood, and have not bothered to buy one.


----------



## 905870477

I think for a cleaver you can either buy a thin one and chop/slice vegetable quickly and better handling harder food than Gyuto. But it feels better and easy to control when using gyuto to slice meat. Or you can buy a middle thick cheap cleaver that can do almost anything in a family kitchen including chopping bones and that's many Chinese families do.


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts

I wonder if traditional users of chinese cleavers also use them for peeling and paring (which I find far more awkward with a cleaver than with a gyuto or santoku)?


----------



## XooMG

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> I wonder if traditional users of chinese cleavers also use them for peeling and paring (which I find far more awkward with a cleaver than with a gyuto or santoku)?


Not really for in-hand stuff. I don't see a whole lot of peeling in Chinese cooking and the bit that I do see is either done on the board or with a dedicated peeler/parer. My experience is limited though.


----------



## fatboylim

XooMG said:


> Not really for in-hand stuff. I don't see a whole lot of peeling in Chinese cooking and the bit that I do see is either done on the board or with a dedicated peeler/parer. My experience is limited though.





LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> I wonder if traditional users of chinese cleavers also use them for peeling and paring (which I find far more awkward with a cleaver than with a gyuto or santoku)?



I was just thinking the same. Very rare to peel foods in Far East Asian cooking. Even the delicate garnish is made using a cleaver.


----------



## loong

I think one important usage of a cleaver is to smash cucumber and garlic.:cool2:


----------



## Nemo

loong said:


> I think one important usage of a cleaver is to smash cucumber and garlic.:cool2:



Pardon my ignorance, but why do you smash cucumber?


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts

Isn't there a dish called squashed cucumber salad in chinese cuisine? Can you substitute cucumbered squash?


----------



## loong

Nemo said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but why do you smash cucumber?



A Chinese dish called Smashed Cucumber Salad. You can google it for recipes. Smashing is the key to this dish to make the cucumber more juicy, highly enjoyable with a touch of sesame oil and vinegar.


----------



## loong

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Isn't there a dish called squashed cucumber salad in chinese cuisine? Can you substitute cucumbered squash?



I am pretty sure it's called smashed cucumber salad.


----------



## 905870477

loong said:


> I am pretty sure it's called smashed cucumber salad.



yes, it is smash by the cleaver, but don't do it with a expensive cleaver....add some dark vinegar and spicy powder or some other sfuff and it's done.


----------



## WOK-a-holic

I use Chinese Cleaver for everything except cutting cheese, bread or a sandwich.
For spreading butter or mayonnaise I used butter knife.

warning: DO NOT CUT CHEESE with Chinese Cleaver. the giant surface area of blade sticks to cheese causing you to put a lot of pressure on blade then it can abruptly lets loose.


----------



## Noodle Soup

They work pretty good for sandwiches though.  I use one for BLT's when I actually have ripe "T's" but being from the Northwest you understand how hard that is.


----------



## WOK-a-holic

Noodle Soup said:


> They work pretty good for sandwiches though.  I use one for BLT's when I actually have ripe "T's" but being from the Northwest you understand how hard that is.



Ripe tomatoes are a rare treat here. I always use cleaver for tomatoes, also for preparing ingredients for sandwich. when I cut sandwich in half I use 8" chefs knife for that single cut only. I can put my hand over the spine of knife and hold sandwich down better while cutting.


----------



## qjlforever

shibazi is the most famous brand in China.


----------



## Noodle Soup

And they make some good cleavers. The thing to be careful with on Shibazi is they make a full range from economical home use knives to top of the line pro models.


----------



## TheCaptain

So I'm looking at shibazi for my first "better" chinese cleaver. How do you differentiate between home and pro lines? In all seriousness does a home cook need a pro model? Na. Scratch that...if you're on this forum I doubt you.would be happy with the home model.


----------



## daveb

You could glue/weld two of your Nakiri together.....

(Sat morn humor - the worst)


----------



## Triggaaar

Where is the best (cheapest) place to get a CCK delivered in the UK?


----------



## TheCaptain

daveb said:


> You could glue/weld two of your Nakiri together.....
> 
> (Sat morn humor - the worst)



HERESY!!!

&#128539;


----------



## Noodle Soup

If your laws allow it, I think Chefs Mall in China has the best selection of both CCK and Shibazi along with several other brands. Prices, I don't know.


----------



## fatboylim

Triggaaar said:


> Where is the best (cheapest) place to get a CCK delivered in the UK?



I picked up a CCK1302 in London. I think it was £58. It came factory blunt but gets razor sharp on Japanese Naturals. It's very thin and falls through food due to thinness and power through its height. 

The CCK is worth a try, but it does not beat my Toyama Nakiri 210 except on price (£360 RRP). 

I could sell you mine as it's only been used twice. It even has the original newspaper sheath it came it!


----------



## Triggaaar

fatboylim said:


> The CCK is worth a try, but it does not beat my Toyama Nakiri 210 except on price (£360 RRP).


Well it definitely wins on price 



> I could sell you mine as it's only been used twice. It even has the original newspaper sheath it came it!


Thanks. How much?

Do you use your Nakiri with meat too, or just veg?
Do you have other Nakiris too?


----------



## fatboylim

Price wise I was thinking £55 including shipping. I think Royal Mail Special Delivery is £5 to £6 which I can cover.

Alternatively, I'm happy to provide you details on where I bought the knife I used to London. You can pick out your own there! 

I do have other Nakiri knives and had others too. Currently a 180 Kato KU Nakiri and the Toyama 210 Nakiri. Two very different profiles and grinds. 165mm Nakiri are too short for me both in length and usually height. 

Nakiri can be used with meat too as a slicer or a push chopper.


----------



## WOK-a-holic

Noodle Soup said:


> If your laws allow it, I think Chefs Mall in China has the best selection of both CCK and Shibazi along with several other brands. Prices, I don't know.



I recently bought a CCK 1103 from chef knives to go 
as far as slicers go the only have 1303 (small ),and 1103 (large)

I would recommend CCK 1103 or CCK 1102 , 1102 slightly larger and weighs 460 Grams , instead of 400 grams.
if you want the 1102 you will have to go through Chefs mall ,1103 can be purchased from either of the two.
These are the only two Distributors I know that carry CCK ,not sure if they ship to UK or not

However , if you were interested in a SUIEN vc Cleaver you could buy one from Japanese chef knives
($160 us ) .....they ship worldwide including UK


----------



## Noodle Soup

I don't know if this fits here but I bought a Sugimoto No. 7 a few months ago. It's billed as a heavy duty all purpose cleaver which to me means poultry and other light bone chopping along with vegetables. Heavy it is for sure. Great for reducing boneless meat to a fine grind. I've been doing a certain amount of bone chopping with since I bought it but yesterday a made my favorite Thai lemon grass chicken curry. This required chopping up a bunch of thighs bone-in. The edge of the cleaver now looks like a micro saw. Not good at all for a cleaver that handles like a hatchet. I plan to sharpen the dings out at a little steeper angle and see if that corrects the problem. I've never been sure the Japanese really understand Chinese cooking.


----------



## dominasia

I have a CCK carbon 1303 and love it. Later i got a green plastic handled stainless at twice the size and rarely use it. It is just too big for me and doesn't fit in my knife block. It looks great though. I also have various Thai cleavers that are thick and soft enough for chicken bones and ribs.
I would recommend the Shibazi, and will probably get one myself at some point. They do one that is a little heavier than the CCK but similar in size to the 1303.

If light slicers are your thing, i'd also look into Victorinox and Mercer who both do a light slicer that i suspect works very well. I really like Victorinox fibrox products and their prices are very good. The Mercer has a nice looking grippy plastic barrel handle. I personally do not like metal handles. Wood or plastic/rubber is better.

Don't spend too much money until you've decided what suits you.


----------



## Vladimir

Unfortunately ,you never understand what you need, until you spend a lot of money ...


----------



## dominasia

Here are my cleavers.





[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## TheCaptain

Nice! What is the second from the top?


----------



## dominasia

[/URL][/IMG]

2nd from top is the CCK 1303 with the unseemly end filled in with resin. Top is the plastic handled 1102 stainless.






Below are 3 cheap Thai knives. Top two are Kiwi, the little one is Penguin.

My cheap and cheerful Thai knives get used more than my CCK or Tojiro gyuto.


----------



## TheCaptain

Thanks for the reply but photobucket is blocking some pictures :sad:


----------



## dominasia

Sorry. Cant you see them when you click on them?


----------



## TheCaptain

Nope. Still see the photobucket pay me meter...


----------



## dominasia

Hmmmm...

But you can see the first picture presumably? You asked me about the second knife down so you must have.

Sorry, i haven't posted a picture here before and am new to photobucket too. I can see them on my computer, and i can see them accessing the site on my phone too, but i have to click on them there. Perhaps someone else will chime in at some point?


----------



## TheCaptain

It's weird (btw - most images are blocked at work so I do most of my viewing on the app).

In your first post the first picture shows up as a broken link. I can see the second picture.

In your next post The first picture shows as a broken link and the second and third pictures show the photobucket thingy.

It'll be at least 10 hours until I can get home and tell you what it looks like on a normal desktop.


----------



## Noodle Soup

dominasia said:


> I have a CCK carbon 1303 and love it. Later i got a green plastic handled stainless at twice the size and rarely use it. It is just too big for me and doesn't fit in my knife block. It looks great though. I also have various Thai cleavers that are thick and soft enough for chicken bones and ribs.
> I would recommend the Shibazi, and will probably get one myself at some point. They do one that is a little heavier than the CCK but similar in size to the 1303.
> 
> If light slicers are your thing, i'd also look into Victorinox and Mercer who both do a light slicer that i suspect works very well. I really like Victorinox fibrox products and their prices are very good. The Mercer has a nice looking grippy plastic barrel handle. I personally do not like metal handles. Wood or plastic/rubber is better.
> 
> Don't spend too much money until you've decided what suits you.



I tried the Mercer. Too small, light and thin for my taste. Vic's cleavers used to be made by Lamson here in the U.S. the same as Chicago Cutlery's. Not sure where they source them these days.


----------



## dominasia

Noodle Soup said:


> I tried the Mercer. Too small, light and thin for my taste. Vic's cleavers used to be made by Lamson here in the U.S. the same as Chicago Cutlery's. Not sure where they source them these days.



Well they are around the same weight as a cck1303 i think, and a little smaller too, and the 1303 has many followers, including me, so i think others may like them. However, i get your point and my next cleaver will be a little heavier as i have come to appreciate the benefits of the extra weight. If my 1102 wasn't such a beast i'd probably use it more often but i have not yet got used to it's size and it won't fit in my knife block.

BTW, can you see my photos?


----------



## Chef Doom

Vladimir said:


> Unfortunately ,you never understand what you need, until you spend a lot of money ...


+1

Only the lucky few get things right early on and avoid making rookie mistakes.


----------



## Noodle Soup

dominasia said:


> Well they are around the same weight as a cck1303 i think, and a little smaller too, and the 1303 has many followers, including me, so i think others may like them. However, i get your point and my next cleaver will be a little heavier as i have come to appreciate the benefits of the extra weight. If my 1102 wasn't such a beast i'd probably use it more often but i have not yet got used to it's size and it won't fit in my knife block.
> 
> BTW, can you see my photos?


Nope, I can't see any of your photos.


----------



## Chef Doom

Noodle Soup said:


> I've been doing a certain amount of bone chopping with since I bought it but yesterday a made my favorite Thai lemon grass chicken curry. This required chopping up a bunch of thighs bone-in. The edge of the cleaver now looks like a micro saw. Not good at all for a cleaver that handles like a hatchet. I plan to sharpen the dings out at a little steeper angle and see if that corrects the problem. I've never been sure the Japanese really understand Chinese cooking.



Maybe you should thicken the edge of your sugimoto for bones and stop blaming the Japanese.

Maybe you should use a different knife better suited for bones.

Maybe the Japanese don't give a ****.


----------



## Noodle Soup

Chef Doom said:


> Maybe you should thicken the edge of your sugimoto for bones and stop blaming the Japanese.
> 
> Maybe you should use a different knife better suited for bones.
> 
> Maybe the Japanese don't give a ****.


Like I said, they market the No. 7 as an all purpose cleaver. In China that means chicken, waterfowl, large fish and light pork bone chopping along with the usual vegetables. I have plenty of real Chinese cleavers that will do that fine but I wanted to try this supposed top of the line Japanese model. I have yet to find a Japanese cleaver I have been really that happy with.


----------



## Marek07

@dominasia - Unfortunately, I can't see any photos no matter what I click.


----------



## dominasia

Marek07 said:


> @dominasia - Unfortunately, I can't see any photos no matter what I click.



Sorry. I've never been on a website that requires a 3rd party to show an image. I never used photobucket before either. Usually i just post an image from my PC. This site won't allow me to do that for some reason?


----------



## Chef Doom

Noodle Soup said:


> Like I said, they market the No. 7 as an all purpose cleaver. In China that means chicken, waterfowl, large fish and light pork bone chopping along with the usual vegetables. I have plenty of real Chinese cleavers that will do that fine but I wanted to try this supposed top of the line Japanese model. I have yet to find a Japanese cleaver I have been really that happy with.


So let me get this straight. You bought a knife from a Japanese maker who uses a japanese kitchen knife forging process that leans towards hardness, sharpened it (I am assuming) on low angles for thinness, did not reprofile the edge for tougher jobs for your own needs, and you blame the edge chipping on poor advertising?

Maybe the Japanese don't give a frack?


----------



## Noodle Soup

They call it an all purpose cleaver, it weights as much as hatchet and it didn't seem that thin edged for a cleaver of its size. They claim their line is the most popular in Japan with chefs in Chinese restaurants. Are those actually Chinese chefs in those restaurants? Is it ignorance or not giving a 'frack?" This is forum for people above average interest in kitchen knives. I try different knives constantly.


----------



## Chef Doom

They also said I could get 0% APR at my local car dealership. My local politicians like to say they are honest men and women who wish to serve the public. I had a stripper who once convinced me sex was available in the champagne room.


----------



## Chef Doom

All jokes aside, my main question is did you sharpen the knife before you started using it or did you use it straight out the box?


----------



## Noodle Soup

Straight out of the box edge. Worked fine until it didn't. I probably touched it up on a 1000 grit stone a time or two but I didn't try to change any angles. That is going to change but I really wasn't looking for a specialized bone chopper. All purpose should be all purpose. Among other uses, all purpose type cleavers are what I pick up when I need to make stock.


----------



## Chef Doom

Well whenever you get around to fixing those angles...

a. If it chips again, I will blame the blade.

b. If it doesn't chip, or even better improves, then I will blame YOU!

Besides, you own enough knives to know not to trust those factory edges. Why are you making rookie mistakes?


----------



## TheCaptain

Why are you being such a jerk?

In case you missed the memo a majority of the folks here are positive and supportive.

But go ahead and keep offering negative feedback and opinions on tools you've never used. It will do wonders for your reputation.


----------



## Chef Doom

TheCaptain said:


> Why are you being such a jerk?



Because I can.


----------



## Nemo

Chef Doom said:


> Because I can.


Well please stop it. It really doesn't fit with the generally supportive culture of this site.


----------



## edgedude

Pretty jerky if you ask me :laugh:


----------



## WOK-a-holic

The topic is CHINESE CLEAVERS . on a knife forums site.
for those with diarrhea of the mouth, should go on Craig's list rant and rave. oke1:


----------



## Chef Doom

foody518 said:


> Here's what I found at my grandpa's place



Nothing line a good amount of rust to help protect the blade &#128514;&#129315;


----------



## Chef Doom

WOK-a-holic said:


> Read post by Andy 777 .A discourse and why I love Chinese cleavers.



Andy 777's thread is what convinced me to purchase my first cleaver. It was a good write-up and is worth the read.


----------



## Chef Doom

WOK-a-holic said:


> The topic is CHINESE CLEAVERS . on a knife forums site.
> for those with diarrhea of the mouth, should go on Craig's list rant and rave. oke1:


I stopped ranting on Craiglist once the authorities cracked down on my main reason to browse the site.


----------



## Keith Sinclair

As was mentioned the Chinese cut through bone Duck & Chicken. The Carbon bone cleavers are in the 50's hardness. I used CCK carbons for ginger chicken platters. 10 platters (2 chix a platter) cutting through thigh bones. Could get the edge sharp it would take a little beating cutting so much bone, but easy to re sharpen. 

I bought a Japanese medium cleaver over one pound stainless VG10 it was thicker grind than my CCK bone cleaver. It chipped cutting Chix thigh. The steel was too hard & not suitable for cutting bone.

Most people here wanting to try a cleaver will not be cutting bone. The CCK 1303 is a good smaller light blade to get one started. They have shot up in price. Esp. on line. China Town here can still get one for 45.00. My first one at same place over 25 yrs. ago was around 20.00.

I wasted money trying to find a decent stainless cleaver, most Chinese stainless is sub par in performance. Wanted a vegetable cleaver for home use. Bought several sold them not as good as my carbons.

I like cleavers have sold most of my old carbon work blades since I retired. Only one I kept is a medium carbon Kau Kong chopper that can handle anything.

The best stainless light cleaver I have found is the Sugimoto 3040. It has user friendly SS gets very sharp & holds a good edge. I use it quite a bit at home. It is another good choice for someone wanting to try a cleaver that is not carbon.


----------



## WOK-a-holic

ANDY777 is responsible for turning me into the Chinese cleaver addict I am today.:biggrin:


----------

