# There's a new king of flattening plates in town.



## PalmRoyale (Dec 28, 2018)

I've been using this plate (made specifically to flatten stones) a while now at work and now that I have a good amount of experience with it, it's time to introduce it to the rest of you. It says Ken-syou on the label but I suspect it's made by Atoma because the diamonds are arranged in the same cluster pattern (and the blue sticker is the same one Atoma uses). For this plate though Atoma has gone a step further and they've made a diamond pattern as well. Because of the grooves this plate is even faster with less suction. If you're in the market for a new dedicated flattening plate, forget about the regular Atoma and get this one. Here's where I bought it: http://noborihamono.com/ He speaks a bit of English but you have to keep it simple and to the point. He will also ship internationally.


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## Knife2meatu (Dec 28, 2018)

That's very interesting.
The page says something which the computer translates to "Because it is diamond exclusive for grinding surface polishing, it can not be used for polishing of cutlery."
I wonder if this means that it's just bad for sharpening and gives poor results; or if sharpening on it is somehow bad for the plate, and wears it faster.
I'm guessing the former.


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## PalmRoyale (Dec 28, 2018)

I'vr tried to sharpen a chisel on it and it went quite poorly. This plate is really only meant to flatten stones. Btw, I only bought the plate and made a base myself from Corian. Nobori Hamono als sells a cheap aluminium base.


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## HRC_64 (Dec 28, 2018)

Stu sells the Atoma base-plates pretty cheap also at TFJ if memory is correct (<$20).
How do you rate the corian DIY base-plate vs the Atoma ALU?


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## PalmRoyale (Dec 29, 2018)

Nobori Hamono has the Atoma base plate for 1750 yen which comes down to $15. If you want the plate and base plate you can just as well buy them both from him.

I prefer my Corian base plate. Corian is very stable so once you've flattened it and put the diamond plate on it, it stays flat.


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## HRC_64 (Dec 29, 2018)

Knife2meatu said:


> That's very interesting.
> The page says something which the computer translates to "Because it is diamond exclusive for grinding surface polishing, it can not be used for polishing of cutlery."
> I wonder if this means that it's just bad for sharpening and gives poor results; or if sharpening on it is somehow bad for the plate, and wears it faster.
> I'm guessing the former.



"grinding surface polishing" means I think stone flattening only. 

On metal you probably don't want (huge/XL) gaps in the abrasive,
because the metal edge will have similar gaps in polish/grind,
which sounds like a hassle.

This looks like an interesting option, if
the diamonds are well bonded/high quality,
which atoma seems to be known for.


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## HRC_64 (Dec 29, 2018)

PalmRoyale said:


> I prefer my Corian base plate. Corian is very stable so once you've flattened it and put the diamond plate on it, it stays flat.



Cheers, thanks for the tip... I need to look into making a corian base


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## Bert2368 (Dec 30, 2018)

What might be the cost for this flattening plate shipped to USA?

I do have an Atoma with the slight diamond pattern, the suction is not a huge bother to me usually- But willing to knife nerd out on a new thing.


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## PalmRoyale (Dec 30, 2018)

Do you seriously expect someone else to contact Nobori Hamono to ask on your behalf?


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## Bert2368 (Jan 1, 2019)

No. Not expecting someone else to contact the seller on my behalf. Asking how much the item cost THEM.

Please pardon my assumption that the transaction of OP for this item might resemble one I might carry out.

I rather expect that the person who just negotiated purchase of this item knows how much it costs. And I have a sense that while the membership here is diverse, international and cosmopolitan, a majority of members are USA residents. Hence, their costs + shipping might be similar to what I might pay.

My humble appologies if my phrasing of this question offended you, and appologies to the OP if I have otherwise transgressed.

All that asside, how much does one of these cost. Enquiring minds want to know.


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## Bert2368 (Jan 1, 2019)

Appologies for the double post as well.


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## PalmRoyale (Jan 1, 2019)

I see I didn't include the price in my opening post, my mistake. It's 5500 yen. Shipping was 2400 yen.
https://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/charge/list/ems_all_en.html


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## Matus (Jan 1, 2019)

Interesting, thanks

EDIT: Did you get the #400 or #600 version? How is the speed compared to more commonly used 140 Atoma? Thanks


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## PalmRoyale (Jan 1, 2019)

I got the 400 grit plate but I don't know how it compares to the regular Atoma 140 because I've never used it. I can say though it's faster than the regular Atoma 400. Because you have many small pressure points it cuts much faster and the channels allow material from to stone to easily flow away.


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## Matus (Jan 1, 2019)

Thank you


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## bahamaroot (Jan 1, 2019)

I can't get the site to translate....


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## Matus (Jan 1, 2019)

Google translator worked fine for me:
https://translate.googleusercontent...700248&usg=ALkJrhhUjEvd_hlIlI2tsHXYXzvGhELtuQ

The product is under ‘Artificial wheel’


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## Bert2368 (Jan 1, 2019)

According to Google, the 5,900 Japanese yen for product + shipping paid for this flattening plate is approximately equal to $54.00 US. I can handle that- My niece was employed as an English/Japanese translator for a tourist bureau in Japan before the tsunami and meltdowns made her position superfluous, I will let HER handle the transaction!

In 2017, I went to Omagari for a conference. On the way in and out (at Kyoto and Tokyo), I visited the equivalent of USA "home improvement" stores. And in Kyoto, a specialty knife, cutlery & scisors store. 

I regret not spending more time and money in various Japanese tool and knife stores I saw while there, the several items I did bring home have all been outstanding values.


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## HRC_64 (Jan 1, 2019)

Here's the direct link...
http://noborihamono.com/kensyomennaosi-pg.html

Note the shop sells a custom baseplate for another $25-30,
it looks like the plate is sized for ATOMA but thicker (?)

http://noborihamono.com/arumibeltutyuu-pg.html

....Maybe somebody can confirm atoma thickness,
but the new plate is 15mm vs maybe 10mm original?


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## HRC_64 (Jan 1, 2019)

Also, there seems to be some discussion on the site
about ways to improve atoma performance,
as if there are end users making bespoke tweaks..

for example, the customize the sticky tape (use more),
and grind the plate on a 1k or something to flatten
the Atoma baseplate (and maybe roughen it slightly).

...interesting to see end users finding tweaks here and there


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## PalmRoyale (Jan 2, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> and grind the plate on a 1k or something to flatten


I tested an Atoma plate myself for flatness and there's no need to tweak it. I stuck a piece of 2000 grit wet and dry to the bed of my jointer, which is a dead flat surface, and the scratches showed me the plate was pretty much dead flat.


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## Bert2368 (Jan 2, 2019)

Thanks for the English translation link- I am SO going to use up all my disposable income.

https://translate.googleusercontent...700248&usg=ALkJrhitzhHP1j5CBvFdhi3_4y7RXcMOSw


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## bahamaroot (Jan 2, 2019)

Matus said:


> Google translator worked fine for me:
> https://translate.googleusercontent...700248&usg=ALkJrhhUjEvd_hlIlI2tsHXYXzvGhELtuQ
> 
> The product is under ‘Artificial wheel’


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## deskjockey (Jan 13, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Thanks for the English translation link- I am SO going to use up all my disposable income.



How did it all go? Did you new 'toys' arrive? Are you having any fun with them?


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## PalmRoyale (Feb 5, 2019)

Has anyone tried the plate yet?


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## big D (Feb 6, 2019)

PalmRoyale said:


> Has anyone tried the plate yet



Thanks for the heads up on this. I may give this a go if _ can figure out which is the 400. Have a bunch of expenses though so may have to wait a bit._


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## PalmRoyale (Feb 6, 2019)

You need to e-mail him for an international shipping. This is his e-mail: [email protected]
He understands a bit of English so you need to keep it simple. Ask for the Kensyou 400 grit diamond plate to flatten stones. His name is Ryota-san.

If anyone wants the plate but has trouble with all of this I'm willing to act as a middle man. Tell me if you want the 400 or 600, give me your paypal and I'll give to him so he can send you a paypal invoice.


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## big D (Feb 6, 2019)

Kind of you to offer to act as go-between but I am sure to manage. Nice to know his name though.
Thank you
D.


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## tongas (Mar 8, 2019)

Received my new plates today from Nobori hamono. Ken-Syou #400 & Atoma 140. 
Didn't pay for shipping as a friend brought them back from Japan.
Bought the aluminium base for the #400, surprised by it's thickness compared to Atoma's one.

Taking the french leave to tropical area on Sunday , hence won't have much time to use any of these ...When I'm back in April.


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## PalmRoyale (Mar 8, 2019)

I'm sure you will love the Ken-syou, it's a terrific flattening plate.


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## Dutchie3719 (Mar 10, 2019)

I've just tried ordering one. Will report back.


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## inferno (Oct 18, 2019)

palmroyale. 

is there a long term review on this plate yet?

better or worse than atoma? dmt? 

lost any bite?


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## PalmRoyale (Oct 18, 2019)

I've used it a lot to flatten synthetics and to generate a slurry on my jnats. It hasn't lost any of it's bite and it's far more efficient than an Atoma or DMT. I can highly recommend it.


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 2, 2019)

My #400 turned up today. Looking forward to putting it through its paces.


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## PalmRoyale (Nov 2, 2019)

I have the 600 which is already more than fast enough. Glad I didn't go for the 400.


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 2, 2019)

PalmRoyale said:


> I got the 400 grit plate.


I'm confused.......


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 2, 2019)

Curious how you tell the #400 from the #600. Only difference I can see is the small red vs blue label. But the kanji don't correspond to a grit#.

@tongas says he bought the #400 but got a red label. I also got #400 but received blue sticker with 'in the eyes' kanji. I'm even more confused.


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## dreamwalker (Nov 2, 2019)

※替刃は別売りのアルミ台などに貼り付けてお使いください。
　※砥面直し専用のダイヤモンドなので、刃物の研磨には使用出来ません。

　*粒度は細目(#600)と中目(#400)*
　どちらも「*替刃のみでの販売*」と「*替刃+別注アルミ台での販売*」が可能です。

*【サイズ】*
　ダイヤモンド替刃：210×75
　 アルミ台(別売り) :210×75×15mm

So red label is *細目(#600).*
Blue label is *中目(#400)*


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## kayman67 (Nov 2, 2019)

You guys are killing me. I really want one.


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## PalmRoyale (Nov 3, 2019)

@ Corradobrit1: Have you used the plate yet?


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 3, 2019)

Not yet. I'm waiting for a friend to cut an acrylic block which I'll use as a backing plate. So what do you have a #400 or #600 grit diamond plate? Can there really be that much real world difference between 400 vs 600?


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## Qapla' (Nov 3, 2019)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Curious how you tell the #400 from the #600. Only difference I can see is the small red vs blue label. But the kanji don't correspond to a grit#.
> 
> @tongas says he bought the #400 but got a red label. I also got #400 but received blue sticker with 'in the eyes' kanji. I'm even more confused.



In this context 中目 and 細目 might be better interpreted as "mid texture" and "fine texture".


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## Qapla' (Nov 3, 2019)

So how would it compare to things like Nanohone Surf Stones?


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## PalmRoyale (Nov 3, 2019)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Not yet. I'm waiting for a friend to cut an acrylic block which I'll use as a backing plate. So what do you have a #400 or #600 grit diamond plate? Can there really be that much real world difference between 400 vs 600?



I found the PVC case and has this on it *中目 *but in red. Seems I do have the 400  I really thought I ordered the 600 lol


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## inferno (Nov 4, 2019)

is there a 140 of this one too? or a really coarse one like 200ish?


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## ojisan (Nov 5, 2019)

inferno said:


> is there a 140 of this one too? or a really coarse one like 200ish?



No they don't have: https://tsukiyama.buyshop.jp/categories/1031610


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## ojisan (Nov 5, 2019)

By the way, Atoma is not considered as a true sorce of flatness in the Japanese community. People say it's just better than others.
As already pointed out in this thread, those who care the true flatness tune up the base plate. If you get a flat base plate ootb, you are lucky.

The "straight edge" is another "must have" tool to check the flatness of things in micro meter scale.
http://noborihamono.com/matuiseimitu-pg.html

However, here is the thing, if you don't deal with hand tools like planes and chisels, you probably don't need that level of flatness (even for single beveled knives). I myself have a straight edge, but rarely use it for knife sharpening indeed. It seems carpenters tend to go further than knife sharpners...


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## kayman67 (Nov 5, 2019)

They are flat enough even for razors. While they are used for lapping or sharpening, flatness can change. 

All measured by me were within 0.1mm differences at worst, 0.01mm at best. Atoma gives an average of 0.05mm. My "ultra flat" diamond plate made for planes and chisels is guaranteed at 0.04mm. 
Still the worst difference is good enough. The cheaper ones and some DMT I had, were at 1-3mm.


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## ojisan (Nov 5, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> They are flat enough even for razors. While they are used for lapping or sharpening, flatness can change.
> 
> All measured by me were within 0.1mm differences at worst, 0.01mm at best. Atoma gives an average of 0.05mm. My "ultra flat" diamond plate made for planes and chisels is guaranteed at 0.04mm.
> Still the worst difference is good enough. The cheaper ones and some DMT I had, were at 1-3mm.



It seems there are worser cases that have much larger errors. This example seems larger than 0.2mm. You might be a lucky guy (or the guy of this page was a unlucky guy. Mine was not bad like this either). 
http://hakuhatu-ken.com/2016/04/167/

End results depend on the position of higher/lower spots, how to flatten stones, thickness of tapes and so on, so it's hard to tell how much unflatness is acceptable anyway.


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## kayman67 (Nov 5, 2019)

I guess one could commission a plate as flat as possible and use the spare part on it. But with Atoma my main concern would be usage. They can develop unevenly usage dependent. I always try to use the entire surface evenly and now gave up mixing sharpening with lapping.


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## M1k3 (Jun 14, 2020)

I just picked this up. Will report back after I've had more time with it.


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## Qapla' (Jun 14, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I just picked this up. Will report back after I've had more time with it.View attachment 83945


What is it?


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## M1k3 (Jun 14, 2020)

Qapla' said:


> What is it?











Large Flattening Plate


Product Description Detailed Specs Measurements The large flattening plate is a two-sided device, featuring extra-coarse and coarse sides. The extra-coarse side is for quick flattening of all stones, while the coarse side can be used to refine finer grit stones after using the extra coarse...




www.japaneseknifeimports.com


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## Chang (Jun 14, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I just picked this up. Will report back after I've had more time with it.View attachment 83945


Subbing, been on the fence about grabbing this one or the other one Jon has. Looking forward to your review.


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