# Naniwa Diamond, Are they worth?



## adam92 (Mar 1, 2022)

I tried to find feedback in the forum but actually not much people using them, because they're overpriced? Are they any different than SG, Cerax, King hyper, SP? 

I can sharpen my honyaki with those stone, just want to know is Naniwa diamond will be faster in term of cutting speed ?


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## M1k3 (Mar 1, 2022)

adam92 said:


> I tried to find feedback in the forum but actually not much people using them, because they're overpriced? Are they any different than SG, Cerax, King hyper, SP?
> 
> I can sharpen my honyaki with those stone, just want to know is Naniwa diamond will be faster in term of cutting speed ?


If they're anything like the cutting speed of the Venev diamond stones, no, they are not faster.


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## Bico Doce (Mar 1, 2022)

there was a pretty great write up on diamond stones, here’s a part of the conclusion 



SolidSnake03 said:


> The Venev in my testing work just as well, cut as was, cut everything, feel about the same give or take (see my big diamond write up for more specifics on this but I'm generalizing here). You don't get a nice holder or the cleaning nagura but you save a bucket load. If the Venev didn't exist these JKI would still be the hottest thing around in diamond plates. They load less than the Naniwa and see to cut faster, maybe a higher concentration of diamonds or the matrix compositon they are in? This is a question for someone with more knowledge than me. Basically the Gesshin Diamonds are awesome but really hard to justify for the price given what Venev offers you and given that in terms of just average home use they work about the same. Maybe over the long run the Venev will wear faster or something but for a normal home user you shouldn't use up any of these, even the Naniwa that seem to load faster/wear quicker by comparison.


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## Bico Doce (Mar 1, 2022)

I have a naniwa diamond 1k and venev. I really like the feel of the naniwa but can’t really justify spending that extra money over the venez


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## KingShapton (Mar 1, 2022)

From what I've read, the Naniwa Diamond are a bit harder, in comparison, Venev with OCB-resin has a slightly better feeling/feedback for that, the Venev is more prone to wear and gouging.

The finish of the Naniwa Diamond should be cleaner, brighter and more consistent, some Russian sharpening nerds swear by these stones.

The Naniwa Diamond is much more expensive, but you also get a small cleaning Nagura.

I find the topic very interesting right now. In the long term I may be planning to buy some pocket knives with high wear-resistant supersteels and that's where a diamond stone might come into play for me. I hope that I can get by with such a knife with my "small" collection of sharpening stones... but just in case...

For me it would be particularly interesting if one of the two stones - Naniwa or Venev - produced significantly more bite on the edge than the other stone. Especially with an everyday pocket knife I don't need a polished edge but an aggressive, everyday edge with bite.

So far I've come to the realization that Venev is the best bang for the buck...and at the same time I get the impression that Naniwa might make the better-quality diamond?!

Looking at the price and my potential budget, I'm really left with Venev (if at all necessary), but I'd still like to hear opinions from people who know both stones.

For me it's more of a theoretical nature at the moment, as I said "in the long term" but this thread fits my thoughts so well that I just had to jump in.


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## KingShapton (Mar 1, 2022)

It is currently questionable how long the Venev stones will still be available...due to the global situation. Therefore, the decision could be taken from me by higher circumstances before I could make a purchase decision...


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## Troopah_Knives (Mar 1, 2022)

Unless you are running steels with a decent volume of MC-type carbides (Vanadium, niobium etc) and it sounds like you aren't I wouldn't bother.


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## KingShapton (Mar 1, 2022)

Troopah_Knives said:


> Unless you are running steels with a decent volume of MC-type carbides (Vanadium, niobium etc) and it sounds like you aren't I wouldn't bother.


As I said, at the moment the consideration is of a theoretical nature, the "problem" only arises for me when I reach my limits with the mentioned steels. And that will be sometime in the future.

Nevertheless, I would be interested in an answer from someone who knows diamond stones from both manufacturers.


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## kayman67 (Mar 1, 2022)

With Venev (questionable availability now), Matrix and Nanohone, I don't see Naniwa as an option. I don't remember being impressed by anything for the money. So, beyond Venev, I would most likely consider Matrix (CGSW is a poor name) first (more grits) and Nanohone. I'm very pleased with Matrix, tbh. I want a coarser one from them.


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## esoo (Mar 1, 2022)

I have the Naniwa 3K Diamond. Bought it as I was going to be needing to sharpen REX121. In my average sharpeners ability, it is not any faster than my SG3K when I've tried to sharpen simpler carbon steels (Blue 2 at 62hrc, 26c3 at 65hrc). It did seem easier to get a good edge when I was trying to sharpen SG2. This however may simply be a reflection of my ability more than the stones.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 1, 2022)

KingShapton said:


> From what I've read, the Naniwa Diamond are a bit harder, in comparison, Venev with OCB-resin has a slightly better feeling/feedback for that, the Venev is more prone to wear and gouging.
> 
> The finish of the Naniwa Diamond should be cleaner, brighter and more consistent, some Russian sharpening nerds swear by these stones.
> 
> ...


So you can get by with diamond plates for these steels, and I can say they do tend to leave a very bitey edge, and they are relatively fast even on simpler steels. 

Where the problem with plates lie is, they wear out much more quickly in time. Eventually having to replace them much sooner. 

The resin bonded diamond last much longer. I can say I really like the edge that is left by them though.


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## adam92 (Mar 3, 2022)

I found the review on YouTube Burrfection video, I realise Naniwa diamond stone are better for HRC 64 or above, all of my knives less than HRC64, I think I better stick with my current stone, as I can handle Honyaki with my current stone as well.


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## kayman67 (Mar 3, 2022)

HRC is just part of the story. Less than you have learned there. This is why the mentioned channel is not liked in a lot of places.


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## Troopah_Knives (Mar 3, 2022)

adam92 said:


> I found the review on YouTube Burrfection video, I realise Naniwa diamond stone are better for HRC 64 or above, all of my knives less than HRC64, I think I better stick with my current stone, as I can handle Honyaki with my current stone as well.



It's much less (arguably not at all) about HRC than it is about what sort of carbides are in the steel. Unless you plan on picking up some steels like HAP 40 or k390 sticking with your current setup is a good plan.


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## Rangen (Mar 3, 2022)

I like the Naniwa diamonds. I have 3K and 6K. The 6K is prone to glazing, but they give you a stone for that.

I prefer them to the Venev, probably because I prefer harder stones.

But the Venevs are great, and I cannot possibly justify the difference in price.

The Nanohones are strange, and take some getting used to. I've obtained excellent results from them, and I think it's possible they are superior to both the Naniwa and the Venev, but they are so odd that I don't reach for them enough to have formed a solid comparative opinion.


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## M1k3 (Mar 3, 2022)

Rangen said:


> I like the Naniwa diamonds. I have 3K and 6K. The 6K is prone to glazing, but they give you a stone for that.
> 
> I prefer them to the Venev, probably because I prefer harder stones.
> 
> ...


What do you find odd about the Nanohone's?


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## Rangen (Mar 3, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> What do you find odd about the Nanohone's?



I fear that your question means that we are not talking about the same stones. The ones I'm talking about are an odd mesh, as though they were woven from strands of resin. You can catch a tip in one of those holes. The feel is rubbery, almost numb. Are those the stones you mean?


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## M1k3 (Mar 3, 2022)

Rangen said:


> I fear that your question means that we are not talking about the same stones. The ones I'm talking about are an odd mesh, as though they were woven from strands of resin. You can catch a tip in one of those holes. The feel is rubbery, almost numb. Are those the stones you mean?


The diamond ones. Not the surf stone. The resin ones. Nano Hone Diamond Resin Plates


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## Rangen (Mar 3, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> The diamond ones. Not the surf stone. The resin ones. Nano Hone Diamond Resin Plates



Yeah, that's what I meant. You don't find them self-evidently odd in use, compared to conventional diamond resin stones like Venev and Naniwa?


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## M1k3 (Mar 3, 2022)

Rangen said:


> Yeah, that's what I meant. You don't find them self-evidently odd in use, compared to conventional diamond resin stones like Venev and Naniwa?


I haven't used them. Which is why I was asking what you find odd about them. The Naniwa ones are out of my "willing to spend on diamond stones since I'm liking the Venev so much" range. Which might change with what's going on in the world right now.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 3, 2022)

I checked the gritomatic site. At least a couple days ago they were available still.


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## SolidSnake03 (Mar 4, 2022)

I’ve written about all of these things in much greater detail in my diamond write up but I’ll add a few quick comments here. 

Generally speaking Venev, JKI and Naniwa are all pretty darn similar, way more similar than different. Venev is cheaper, not as nice of a product overall but work just as well. JKI and Naniwa are both about the same price give or take a little bit and are about the same quality/build with the JKI coming with a nice holder and such. The Naniwa are color coded which is cool but not needed. Overall these all do a great job and any difference between them is extremely minor, Naniwa seem to load a smidge faster maybe, JKI maybe are a bit more tactile? It’s pretty much splitting hairs between them to me. They are work great, last a long time and are easy to use  

The Nanohone matrix diamonds are a whole different thing in terms of feeling and all that, different discussion with those.


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## jwthaparc (Mar 4, 2022)

SolidSnake03 said:


> I’ve written about all of these things in much greater detail in my diamond write up but I’ll add a few quick comments here.
> 
> Generally speaking Venev, JKI and Naniwa are all pretty darn similar, way more similar than different. Venev is cheaper, not as nice of a product overall but work just as well. JKI and Naniwa are both about the same price give or take a little bit and are about the same quality/build with the JKI coming with a nice holder and such. The Naniwa are color coded which is cool but not needed. Overall these all do a great job and any difference between them is extremely minor, Naniwa seem to load a smidge faster maybe, JKI maybe are a bit more tactile? It’s pretty much splitting hairs between them to me. They are work great, last a long time and are easy to use
> 
> The Nanohone matrix diamonds are a whole different thing in terms of feeling and all that, different discussion with those.


Have you tried the cgsw stones yet?


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## Troopah_Knives (Mar 4, 2022)

jwthaparc said:


> Have you tried the cgsw stones yet?



I have! They are excellent. IMO definitely better than the Venev stones. They seem like they have a slightly higher density of diamonds and the resin bonding feels to me like it's a bit more robust (I saw very few instances where diamonds had been pulled out of the stone). Overall they pack in a bit more value, the real question do they pack in enough extra value to give the same bang for your buck as a Venev. I'd tend towards no but it's really a very close call. They are still an excellent product!


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## jwthaparc (Mar 5, 2022)

Troopah_Knives said:


> I have! They are excellent. IMO definitely better than the Venev stones. They seem like they have a slightly higher density of diamonds and the resin bonding feels to me like it's a bit more robust (I saw very few instances where diamonds had been pulled out of the stone). Overall they pack in a bit more value, the real question do they pack in enough extra value to give the same bang for your buck as a Venev. I'd tend towards no but it's really a very close call. They are still an excellent product!


I was super close to pulling the trigger on buying the 160 micron to round out my resin bonded diamond stone progression yesterday. I know it's just a matter of time until I do buy it. Right now I have 240/400 1200/2000 of the venev, and I have been wanting something lower than the 240 (325 ish? Jis) for a while.


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## SolidSnake03 (Mar 5, 2022)

I have used these as well. To me they are a weird middle ground between Venev and going whole hog on Vitrified stuff either from BBB or JKI. I liked them, like they cut everything, do so quickly and cleanly, less loading than Venev and the like, will last for a crazy long time and price wise are fairly priced. Yet at the same time they seem like more of a half step to me in the whole diamond world. Like either go cheap and get Venev or just go big $$$ and get the absolute top in the Vitrified stuff. That’s just my mind set mind you.

I do absolutely find that they have benefits over the Venev plated diamond type stuff and all those but at the same time they don’t have the mind blowing speed of the Vitrified stuff and that stuffs resistance to loading and such. 

Hope that helps? I do like them, really I do but they are in a word spot financially to me


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## jwthaparc (Mar 6, 2022)

SolidSnake03 said:


> I have used these as well. To me they are a weird middle ground between Venev and going whole hog on Vitrified stuff either from BBB or JKI. I liked them, like they cut everything, do so quickly and cleanly, less loading than Venev and the like, will last for a crazy long time and price wise are fairly priced. Yet at the same time they seem like more of a half step to me in the whole diamond world. Like either go cheap and get Venev or just go big $$$ and get the absolute top in the Vitrified stuff. That’s just my mind set mind you.
> 
> I do absolutely find that they have benefits over the Venev plated diamond type stuff and all those but at the same time they don’t have the mind blowing speed of the Vitrified stuff and that stuffs resistance to loading and such.
> 
> Hope that helps? I do like them, really I do but they are in a word spot financially to me


Not for me. Im just literally too broke to get the vitrified stones. So if they're even only a half step in the direction of those they're worth it. 

I think next time I get paid I'll pick one up.


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## SolidSnake03 (Mar 6, 2022)

jwthaparc said:


> Not for me. Im just literally too broke to get the vitrified stones. So if they're even only a half step in the direction of those they're worth it.
> 
> I think next time I get paid I'll pick one up.



Oh 100% in that case then yes it’s a good buy for sure. I tend to think too much in a go cheap or go expensive but not enough about the middle ground. That’s purely my mentality of course and everyone is at different places when it comes to what they can or want to spend on stuff like this. 

I think you’ll enjoy it, they are a really good buy if one doesn’t want to make the jump to the Vitrified stuff. I think I should have made that clearer myself. Like they are still a really solid product and given the whole war thing it remains to be seen if Venev will still be an option going forward so these represent a great choice in something different plus their American made.


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