# Nanohone



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 21, 2019)

Seems Carter has been promoting this system quite heavily recently. What do people who have actually used it think? Who is this system really aimed at? The amateur looking to up his game or will it satisfy the accomplished whetstone sharpeners?


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## Matus (Sep 22, 2019)

I am yet to google what it is, but I am getting the feel that is yet another cool aid that is about to take KKF by storm


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## parbaked (Sep 22, 2019)

Some early impressions linked in this thread.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/nanohone-preview.40276/


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 22, 2019)

Def not a fan of their IG contributor ('Cait') or their online demeanor and marketing in general. 
Seems like an overpriced sharpening system. 
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2pvNibgS2P/


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## Walla (Sep 22, 2019)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Def not a fan of their IG contributor ('Cait') or their online demeanor and marketing in general.
> Seems like an overpriced sharpening system.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B2pvNibgS2P/



I agree about their ig person Cait. Definitely leaves questions about their attitude.

Take care

Jeff


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## M1k3 (Sep 22, 2019)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Def not a fan of their IG contributor ('Cait') or their online demeanor and marketing in general.
> Seems like an overpriced sharpening system.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B2pvNibgS2P/



The stones are pretty good. Everything else is pretty much overpriced.

P.S. Cait is rude, to say it nicely.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 22, 2019)

It does turn me off the *Carter* brand. For me Carter was more appealing 3-7 years ago when it was a one-man show. Its become a lot more production orientated these days. A little too slick for their own good.


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## M1k3 (Sep 22, 2019)

I wouldn't dismiss Nanohones because of Cait and Carter Cutlery. I will say the stones are no better than other good, known brands. They're another option. If the lapping plates were about 15-25% cheaper, I would recommend them. Right now, if price isn't an issue, go for them. Otherwise get an Atoma or DMT Dia-flat. Or Suehiro Tairagain for coarse stones.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 22, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> I wouldn't dismiss Nanohones because of Cait and Carter Cutlery. I will say the stones are no better than other good, known brands. They're another option. If the lapping plates were about 15-25% cheaper, I would recommend them. Right now, if price isn't an issue, go for them. Otherwise get an Atoma or DMT Dia-flat. Or Suehiro Tairagain for coarse stones.


I meant Carter knives not Nanohone but I can see I wasn't clear.


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## kayman67 (Sep 22, 2019)

Some were cheaper. I have no idea why the prices went up quite a bit.


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## Cbt (Sep 23, 2019)

They've came under my radar a few days ago. Couldn't find out why they were so special so I decided to put the idea aside.


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 23, 2019)

I guess I just don’t get it. I have a lot of respect for Murray’s knives and awesome sharpening skills. I spent 55 years sharpening on a 2x8 soft Arkansas stone and a hard Arkansas pocket stone when I wanted a finer finish. Now I have a variety of water stones yet I seem to always use the same 2 or 3. A $2000 Nano hone setup. Would I get sharper knives? Maybe, but it seems anything past 1000 grit is mostly for looks. I just don’t get it. I seem to recall Murray saying sharpening is 95% technique and 5% equipment. I just don’t get it.


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## dwalker (Sep 23, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> I guess I just don’t get it. I have a lot of respect for Murray’s knives and awesome sharpening skills. I spent 55 years sharpening on a 2x8 soft Arkansas stone and a hard Arkansas pocket stone when I wanted a finer finish. Now I have a variety of water stones yet I seem to always use the same 2 or 3. A $2000 Nano hone setup. Would I get sharper knives? Maybe, but it seems anything past 1000 grit is mostly for looks. I just don’t get it. I seem to recall Murray saying sharpening is 95% technique and 5% equipment. I just don’t get it.


The answer to all your questions is : money.


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 23, 2019)

Sad but true!


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## milkbaby (Sep 23, 2019)

It's weird because he always just taught using an inexpensive King 1000/6000 and that was what he sold online. /shrug


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 23, 2019)

milkbaby said:


> It's weird because he always just taught using an inexpensive King 1000/6000 and that was what he sold online. /shrug


Exactly. Spoke to him on the phone last year and thats exactly what he recommended, poopooing Jnats etc. Wonder what changed?


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## M1k3 (Sep 23, 2019)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Exactly. Spoke to him on the phone last year and thats exactly what he recommended, poopooing Jnats etc. Wonder what changed?



$$$$?


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 23, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> $$$$?


Further confirming my thoughts re Carter Cutlery


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 23, 2019)

You can’t fault somebody from trying to build their business. I like Murray’s knives and his sharpening skills are unparalleled. I guess the problem is how the public handle his 180 from a couple of stones and lots of practice to an expensive sharpening “system” with the implication that the expensive system is the route to sharpening skills. Next thing you know you will be able to buy nano hones on Amazon and eBay. Then what?


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## bahamaroot (Sep 25, 2019)

When I started sharpening years ago I remember finding a video of Carter dogging every "system" and "gadget" out there and explaining why each where junk and overpriced.


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## Michi (Sep 26, 2019)

Wow:

https://nanohone.com/collections/the-universal-system-1/products/round-sharpening-pond

$195 for a serving tray with a bit of rubber stuck to the bottom.

It's a bargain though, considering that the rectangular version costs $230:

https://nanohone.com/collections/the-universal-system-1/products/large-sharpening-pond

This is the rectangular one I have:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hubulk-Dog...n-Slip-Mess-/273834292029?hash=item3fc1cbb33d

Admittedly, it's not quite as pretty. But it was eighteen times cheaper…


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## kayman67 (Sep 26, 2019)

Yeah, I'll stick with my pizza tray, thank you very much! 
Don't call me, I'll call you...


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 26, 2019)

I just use a dish cloth beside my sink.


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## Matus (Sep 26, 2019)

I would like to hear some feedback about the 200.

The stones have OK price, offering bases for 3rd party stones is interesting, the accessories are badly overpriced.


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## KingShapton (Sep 26, 2019)

The bases for 3rd party stones are just aluminum plates. They are badly overpriced. Check the prices for aluminum plates online....


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## SilverSwarfer (Sep 26, 2019)

I discuss my overall experience with the NH stones here:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/nano-hone.38980/

I agree with most folks’ comments about the accessories that make the “system.” I use all my stones with towels and a basic rubber stone holder when necessary. For me, sink bridges and ponds are useless: never had a need for those things. 

However, the stones are well- made and effective tools. I do not find the prices of the stones themselves offensive at all.


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## jaeysehn (Sep 26, 2019)

unsure about the stones, but the lapping plates do seem to provide an advantage. agree that the prices are questionable for someone who is not constantly flattening but i can imagine if youre doing it daily multiple times then the button construction ones (nl8, nl10) could be beneficial. Anecdotally when i tested them out, they were much heavier compared to atoma which helped to flatten faster, got stuck less due to the button construction, and feel better in the hand (atoma has sharp edges).


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## SilverSwarfer (Sep 26, 2019)

The “Button Tech” plates seem to only make sense for heavy use. Anyone who’s had the Atoma 140 likely has a sense of the effective life of that plate. The unique design of the BT plates keep them near full effectiveness, regardless of how old or worn the plate is. For me the decision was based on cost of frequency~replacement for A140’s, my positive experience with the NH stones, and curiosity.


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## Dave Martell (Sep 26, 2019)

The lapping plate buttons remind me of the diamond grinding pads that concrete polishing machines use.


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## Walla (Sep 27, 2019)

Back to the original topic...I feel that Carter may have"jumped the shark" there seems to be a definite change in philosophy...from look you can achieve this with a cinder block and cardboard if you have the right technique... to look how wonderful this whole system is ( Nano hone may well be a good system...never tried it...so I can't comment either way)...and very suddenly at that...

Guess it's pretty lucrative for him... He wants to go and flog Nano hone...his business.,but it flies in the face of everything he's said up until now...it can't be all wrong... we'll see what he has to say...and ultimately have to make our own decisions..

And their Instagram presence/ person responsible for it just lacks people skills...no wait...I lack people skills... they're at a whole different level...

Take care

Jeff


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 27, 2019)

Let me say that the outset that I am a Murray Carter fan. I own several of his knives and will probably buy more in the future. Though I have sharpened knives for about 60 years I have bought, studied and learned from Murray’s sharpening videos and YouTube posts. Learning from him has definitely improved my skills. I looked on his conversion to Nano Hone with confusion. It seemed to go against many things he taught.

I just watched his newest video on his conversion to nano hone. Nothing he said in the video convinced me that his conversion was anything more than attempting to improve profits through paid testimonials for a commercial enterprise. It wasn’t the same as being told there was no Santa Claus ... but close. He also alluded to his upcoming enterprise of Murray Carter Signature Series Spyderco Kitchen Knives. Yikes ... I hope Murray realizes that what he is doing to his brand is much more dangerous than the most recent Food Network Chef is doing to their brand by branding a line of kitchen knives or pots and pans.

Maybe he is following in Kramer’s footsteps.

I don’t know but I know I won’t be changing my sharpening gear to nano hone any time soon and I doubt that any of the expert sharpeners here on KKF will either. I also doubt that many nano hone purchasers will be buying Murray’s $1000 plus knives any time soon. Time will tell.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 27, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> Let me say that the outset that I am a Murray Carter fan. I own several of his knives and will probably buy more in the future. Though I have sharpened knives for about 60 years I have bought, studied and learned from Murray’s sharpening videos and YouTube posts. Learning from him has definitely improved my skills. I looked on his conversion to Nano Hone with confusion. It seemed to go against many things he taught.
> 
> I just watched his newest video on his conversion to nano hone. Nothing he said in the video convinced me that his conversion was anything more than attempting to improve profits through paid testimonials for a commercial enterprise. It wasn’t the same as being told there was no Santa Claus ... but close. He also alluded to his upcoming enterprise of Murray Carter Signature Series Spyderco Kitchen Knives. Yikes ... I hope Murray realizes that what he is doing to his brand is much more dangerous than the most recent Food Network Chef is doing to their brand by branding a line of kitchen knives or pots and pans.
> 
> ...


He lost me a long time ago.


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 27, 2019)

Sad because Murray has invested a lifetime of effort to build his brand. I hope he knows what he is doing.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 27, 2019)

LOL. Damage limitation in full swing


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## KingShapton (Sep 28, 2019)

the video is embarrassing!
it does not look authentic, Carter gives the impression of an actor. A bad actor!


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 28, 2019)

Social media is not Murrays forte to say the least. He should stick to forging and sharpening.


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## M1k3 (Sep 28, 2019)

Corradobrit1 said:


> LOL. Damage limitation in full swing




I started not being a big fan when he showed off his "ultimate kitchen knife" and was struggling with tomatoes. Then seeing Caid on Instagram.... Now this.


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## Walla (Sep 28, 2019)

WOW...just watched the video... he's trying very hard to justify it... I fear he's jumped the shark...

Definitely damage control going on...


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## McMan (Sep 28, 2019)

“Instead of promoting a generic product that would never recognize my faithful endorsement of over 30 years…” (3:1.

King (1000, 6000)


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## danemonji (Sep 28, 2019)

Disapointed!
Used to watch this guy sharpen knifes on newspaper or an old beaten down king stone and i really appreciated his enthusiasm and honesty.
What corporate ******** does to a man...strips him bare of identity reading a speach written by PR advisor with words he can't even digest, trying to make a positive of a nasty situation. Employing cheaper labor to make knives he signs as his own...or partnering with mass producing corporations which just want to brand products with his name, i guess he went a long way from that small shop where he was pouring soul in his work. The only way forward i see is for him, is to open a factory in China and say he is sharing his knowledge with even more people helping their community and familly.


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## suntravel (Sep 28, 2019)

Well he ist learning, maybe not very fast needing 30 years to figure out King 1/6k is not the best stone in the world 

Regards

Uwe


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## M1k3 (Sep 28, 2019)

suntravel said:


> Well he ist learning, maybe not very fast needing 30 years to figure out King 1/6k is not the best stone in the world
> 
> Regards
> 
> Uwe



He basically says, a company that's  willing to throw money at him respect him for using their product, he's willing to work with.


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## suntravel (Sep 28, 2019)

Making money with his work ist nothing bad i think.

But allways shouting out his stuff is perfekt and the best, is kind of suspicius for me, as is also telling people he is innovative making 30 years the same stuff with the same steel, same HT and same sharpening stone and compares this with the innovation level of the modern automotive industry 

He even wants to tell us making half tang like on 3$ kinves is an innovation 

Saying half tang saves steel and time an selling them for maybe 50$ less than full tang would be honest from my piont of view.

Regards

Uwe


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## M1k3 (Sep 28, 2019)

suntravel said:


> Making money with his work ist nothing bad i think.
> 
> But allways shouting out his stuff is perfekt and the best, is kind of suspicius for me, as is also telling people he is innovative making 30 years the same stuff with the same steel, same HT and same sharpening stone and compares this with the innovation level of the modern automotive industry
> 
> ...



I'm not saying don't make money. I'm saying don't spout the same talk about King 1k/6k stone and newspaper, White steel, anything else is for inferior Smith's, for how long? And now Spyderco and Nanohone are so good now that you have to brag about them without saying how wrong you were? How much you've learned and moved past that? Nope, just "HEAR! LOOKS! SHINY NEW TOYS! with only marketing circular explanations"


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## kayman67 (Sep 28, 2019)

Yeah, damage control with playing a card that looks like it's not working.

Now, I know for a fact that Carter can sharpen really well. So that's his forte. And it would have been really easy to justify the nanohone approach from this perspective, saying something simple like this. "I've been developing my sharpening skills for years and shared them with others to the best of my abilities. You have been following me in countless videos. During this period I saw many struggle with my approach on very soft stones. I've learned a lot from this and decided to try something different, considering that I plan to make my products available for more and more people and I want them to be able to get the best cutting experience. And since a change was happening, why not get the best on the market right now? (you see, I'm promoting them already to best possible options and I hold some reality over it) So, after much consideration I've decided to fully endorse Nanohone, an American company bla bla bla (I could go on)... " this takes a couple of minutes to tell people and that was that. And would have been real.


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## M1k3 (Sep 28, 2019)

I just want to say, I'm not crapping on Nanohone, the stones (400, 1k and 6k) were quite nice, really great polish. Everything else I felt was well made but overpriced. And I still feel Nanohone should of came out with a universal stone holder plate instead of the blank plates.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 28, 2019)

Guess Murray graduated from the Timmy Bros School of Social Media


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## Brian Weekley (Sep 28, 2019)

Fabulous ... Saving the world one drop at a time. Where do I buy?

if they could develop an app for it they could be presenters at the next Apple event.


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## kayman67 (Sep 28, 2019)

I just can't remember something even if my life would depend on it. It's like I can touch them, I know them, but nothing. 
What's the name of those huge sharpening stones made to be used on a base resembling a "rhino" I think. I saw some maybe 3-4 years ago.


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## KingShapton (Sep 28, 2019)

I know the "rhino-stones". 
It is an older series by Shapton. If I remember correctly, then the stones were intended only for the Japanese market, especially for restaurants and restaurants. these stones also had a special holder, only with this holder stones could be used.


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## Dave Martell (Sep 28, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> I just can't remember something even if my life would depend on it. It's like I can touch them, I know them, but nothing.
> What's the name of those huge sharpening stones made to be used on a base resembling a "rhino" I think. I saw some maybe 3-4 years ago.



Hippo?


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## kayman67 (Sep 28, 2019)

Much appreciated! 
Indeed, the hippo stone. All I could think of was "rhino"... Silly me. 
http://hamono.ocnk.net/product-list?keyword=替砥石
So, it's not all lost since the guys at Nanohone didn't conditioned the stones to be used in a very specific way. They could have. 
All accessories might have been considered after own Shapton's Glass line, as if I remember right, Shapton also has a stupid expensive pond amongst other things. This might have been a mistake. Also some products got more expensive over time.


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## galvaude (Sep 29, 2019)

There is a post on IG where they stick a glass stone to their plate, seriously ? 

I never used anything from this company but I never been so repelled buy an abrasive company than this one. To me this is total snake oil.


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## kayman67 (Sep 29, 2019)

What are you talking about?


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## Matus (Sep 29, 2019)

Several people me mentioned poor social skills and behavior of the Nanohone team, I would appreciate if you guys could post a few links. The briefly checked their IG and did not notice anything out of the ordinary.


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## Walla (Sep 29, 2019)

The discussion flip flops between Carter cutlery and Nano hone...the comments about less than wonderful responses are about Carter cutlery...as seen here...



Corradobrit1 said:


> Def not a fan of their IG contributor ('Cait') or their online demeanor and marketing in general.
> Seems like an overpriced sharpening system.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B2pvNibgS2P/




Take care


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## M1k3 (Sep 29, 2019)

Matus said:


> Several people me mentioned poor social skills and behavior of the Nanohone team, I would appreciate if you guys could post a few links. The briefly checked their IG and did not notice anything out of the ordinary.



Nanohone is fine on IG. Carter Cutlery's Cait is the one with no 'social' media 'skills'.


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## Matus (Sep 29, 2019)

@M1k3 I can agree on that


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## Knife2meatu (Sep 29, 2019)

I was watching the Carter promotional video for Nano Hone stuff, which put particular emphasis on the $25 colored-aluminium blank back plates and 2-sided tape, for using other stones with the proprietary Nano Hone base. And I thought I noticed substantial slop in the tolerances used to machine the matching divots/studs in the plates/base. If that's indeed the case, and the plates can actually shift noticeably even as they're positioned on the studs -- because the designers opted for looser tolerances to save on production cost...

Can anyone with experience of the product confirm that the studs on the base and the divots in the plates are tightly matched enough to prevent any noticeable movement of one relative to the other, at least?


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 29, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> Nanohone is fine on IG. Carter Cutlery's Cait is the one with no 'social' media 'skills'.


+1 as well as Murrays disingenuous damage control efforts via vlog. Its just all a bit cringeworthy. No issues with Nano hone _per se._


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## M1k3 (Sep 29, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> I was watching the Carter promotional video for Nano Hone stuff, which put particular emphasis on the $25 colored-aluminium blank back plates and 2-sided tape, for using other stones with the proprietary Nano Hone base. And I thought I noticed substantial slop in the tolerances used to machine the matching divots/studs in the plates/base. If that's indeed the case, and the plates can actually shift noticeably even as they're positioned on the studs -- because the designers opted for looser tolerances to save on production cost...
> 
> Can anyone with experience of the product confirm that the studs on the base and the divots in the plates are tightly matched enough to prevent any noticeable movement of one relative to the other, at least?



I haven't tried the blank plates. I did try the regular stones and holder system. There wasn't any play in the holding mechanism.


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## Dave Martell (Sep 29, 2019)

Are there different size plates/blanks for different sized stones?


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## M1k3 (Sep 29, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> Are there different size plates/blanks for different sized stones?



1 size hopefully fits all


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## Walla (Oct 1, 2019)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Guess Murray graduated from the Timmy Bros School of Social Media




Found this... thought you might like it..


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## Cbt (Oct 1, 2019)

Walla said:


> Found this... thought you might like it..


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 1, 2019)

Walla said:


> Found this... thought you might like it..



There you go. Everybody's doing it.


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## Walla (Nov 12, 2019)

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B4sl8kNjUW3/?igshid=1mj7dd4k7r0ih

New ig video...it feels perfect to me...I feel like cutting up some vegetables right now...


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## M1k3 (Nov 12, 2019)

I got about halfway. Couldn't watch anymore.


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## Brian Weekley (Nov 12, 2019)

Watched it to the end. I guess I can accept what they are trying to accomplish and wish them well in their efforts to build their business. I visited my local knife store today to pick up some board butter. On a “specials” table were any number of gizmos to sharpen knives. Some with carbide inserts, some with vibrating pads, a couple of stones, some with rotating belts and a few other varieties of things guaranteed to put a sharp edge on your knives with virtually no effort. Some work sort of ... some will do more damage to your blade than good. Now we have Nanohone. Pretty soon there will be a batch of Nanohone products on the “Specials” table. Why ... because none of them will provide the results the purchaser is looking for ... a sharp knife with little or no effort. Half of them should be simply thrown in the garbage. I could use the other half of the products to put a decent to good edge on a knife. If I took the stones I could put an excellent edge on the knife. Why? ... because fifty years ago I took a simple Arkansas stone and taught myself the mechanics of sharpening a blade. It wasn’t tough to learn but it took some time and effort on my part. I had to learn how to do it. What I liked about Murray’s previous sharpening methods is that it put the focus on learning the techniques to sharpen a blade. I don’t even think his preferred King stones are even particularly good stones. The point was that with the right technique you could get excellent results from mediocre tools. Murray didn’t even suggest that having a flat stone was important. My fifty year old soft Arkansas stone is curved like a French curve. Until a few years ago it didn’t even occur to me that I should grind off the prized surface of my stone to make it flat. Even with the softer Japanese synthetic stones that I use mostly today I still don’t flatten them. I put the edge of the blade where it needs to be to accomplish what I want to accomplish. The human hand is capable of incredible precision if it knows what it should be doing. With a single edged blade I can see the importance of an absolutely flat stone. But I really don’t use single edged blades.

So ... what’s the deal with Nanohone products. If you have the cash and want to buy their stuff ... great ... have at it. Will it guarantee that you can go home a produce a factory edge on your dull Wustoff. Sorry ... it won’t do that! By the time you learn how to use your Nanohone collection to produce factory edge on your Wustoff you could probably buy a couple of King stones and get the same results. Nothing you are going to buy at the knife store will teach your how to do that. It takes old fashioned time and effort.

Let me end by saying that all of the foregoing is just my .02. I am no sharpening guru. There are many here on KKF who can put a better edge on a blade that I can. .... And they could do it with a couple of mediocre King stones.


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## M1k3 (Nov 12, 2019)

I actually think King stones are great for beginners, at least the common 1k/6k KDS (not the KW one) combo. They are softish and cheap. Forced me to learn proper control so I didn't gouge the stone. Easy to flatten. Doesn't load up. That said, in my opinion, it's a great beginner stone. Not really for advanced people that form preferences that the King stone doesn't have.


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## kayman67 (Nov 12, 2019)

They are still trying too hard to sell these. And someone made everything just too much. The entire system is just too much on any level. Beginners would not understand what these guys are saying and wouldn't know how to pick the right stuff out of everything, while more advanced users are not interested at all in that particular manner. I'm not sure who will be impressed here. Maybe some will, but only by pure chance. 
The stones are good. I have some of them and they are above average in terms of performance and maybe the best or some of the best in terms of finish scratch pattern consistency. And for me this translates in making everything easier. This was the reason I wanted to try anyway, not all that talk about unimportant things. I just don't get how people with a great deal of experience just can't understand how to sell them. Or maybe I'm just wrong and these will sell like crazy due to the "commercial" above.


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## Steel+Fire (Nov 13, 2019)

Tough crowd here. I try not to ever fault people for innovating or evolving. I can see why people are annoyed as Mr. Carter has changed his tune of late and is endorsing a boutique type of sharpening system. I have never used his knives but do follow him and his apprentices on IG.

In my own experience I have been in similar positions with products and even techniques throughout my life. For example in my early 30's while still serving in the military I kind of thought of customizing firearms as a civilian preoccupation. Then I trained with tier 1 guys and found out how much better our weapons could be with a nice upgraded trigger and rails to hang useful item like lights, lasers and forward grips. Now in my mid 40's I do not carry a gun I own unless it has been customized to my specs. Just an example of how my own preferences or the context of my experiences changed over the years.

In regard to Nonohone I can't comment on Mr. Carter shilling for them other than to say he probably has some financial motivations in addition to possibly evolving from his previous opinions.

As for the actual products, I will say it, they are a tad overpriced. I cannot comment on their actual stones as I only own their NL-4 and NL-5 lapping plates. These are well built, seem very high quality, and make all other plates and coarse stone fixers I have used seem lacking in performance. I use the NL=4 on my coarse stones under 1000 grit and the NL-5 for all others including on Jnats I own. They work awesome. No sticking to the stone and it leaves the surface of the stone gritty and ready to sharpen. Their design sets them apart and they work as advertised in my experience. As another poster has mentioned, if price is not a major concern then they really are nice to use. If I was a pro I would likely step up to the button tech as it is my guess they last much longer. Also the price likely reflects that the products (lapping plates) are manufactured in Japan where labor and materials are not cheap.


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## kayman67 (Nov 15, 2019)

Well, I don't know if it's the crowd. 

I remember looking at the NL-4 and 5 for some time when the prices were 140 and 160. Right now those prices are 180/195 (Carter's site and sharpening supplies I think) or 200/212$ on most sites. Even this difference that we see at the moment, is bothering me somehow. But from 140 to 200, that's a big jump. Same for the other one. And I am supposed to get them both. It's really not good for business to start making them more and more expensive or have different prices (although I think eventually they will all be the same or should be). The price increase was not in one go either. They pretty much adjusted little by little (for NL-5 I think it was 160-180-195-212 or something like that).


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## Matus (Nov 15, 2019)

Well, they either miss-estimated the business case, or there is more interest and they raise prices because they can simply afford to do so. One can only speculate.


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## kayman67 (Nov 15, 2019)

I have no idea. Maybe they are, but that's a big jump (might not be the last either). The challenge would be to adjust everything and keep the prices within a reasonable percentage increase.


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## M1k3 (Nov 15, 2019)

Just buy the stones, a non-nanhone universal stone holder and atoma. Or Dia-Flat. Or Suehiro Tairagain. Or loose SiC....


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## kayman67 (Nov 15, 2019)

Exactly what I have.


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## tgfencer (Nov 15, 2019)

I have two of the diamond flattening plates (the one for coarse stones and the cheaper one for finer grits). Both are much faster than my atoma (which admittedly isn’t new).
Got both on sale (wouldn’t buy at full price or if they weren’t going to get much use), but if anyone is interested I’d wait until MTC Kitchen has another 20% off sale.


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## inferno (Nov 15, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> Well, I don't know if it's the crowd.
> 
> I remember looking at the NL-4 and 5 for some time when the prices were 140 and 160. Right now those prices are 180/195 (Carter's site and sharpening supplies I think) or 200/212$ on most sites. Even this difference that we see at the moment, is bothering me somehow. But from 140 to 200, that's a big jump. Same for the other one. And I am supposed to get them both. It's really not good for business to start making them more and more expensive or have different prices (although I think eventually they will all be the same or should be). The price increase was not in one go either. They pretty much adjusted little by little (for NL-5 I think it was 160-180-195-212 or something like that).



its probably not worth it to get these imo. you can get about 3 atomas for this price. or one of the big diaflats. and afaik the nanohone plates are just the low grade plating like everyone else uses and wears out quite fast. 
the diaflat is at least coated like the do on industrial wheels. and its 250x100 big. 

personally i'm gonna get a button plate and then just get a shapton 120 for all coarse work and keep it flat. and not worry about the diamonds wearing out ever again. its a lot of diamond on those plates. i think the button plates will last 10-20 years even for us knife nuts.


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## kayman67 (Nov 15, 2019)

If opportunity knocks, who knows. The way I sharpen, flatness is not an issue often. So my main focus with these, would be surface conditioning. They are supposed to be really good at this. I would need to test for myself improvements over Atoma 1200 with some stones.


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## inferno (Nov 15, 2019)

i still think they are too expensive. but who knows maybe those weird patterns works wonders. but i kinda doubt it.


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## kayman67 (Nov 15, 2019)

I couldn't say until I would do some testing myself. Atoma 1200 makes a good difference with razors. And this is it, this is the step where we always ask ourselves if there's room for improvement or not. This is the drive.


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## Steel+Fire (Nov 15, 2019)

My favorite part of all this discussion is that many people here will shell out $300-$1000 for a knife that does exactly what the $40 Victorinox will do but they split hairs over paying another $100 bucks for a lapping plate that will last most of us for years for the amount of sharpening a home user or collectors do.

Like I said, tough crowd, most forums are by nature. I own the Nanohone and couple Atoma products and a DMT plate and there is no comparison. Just the backing plate with finger grooves and the fact that there is no suction between the plate and the stones provides a huge upgrade in performance and ease of use. I have only had my NL-5 for 6 months and have used it for maybe 3 sharpening session. No wear is visible and I do not detect any loose diamonds in the slurry like cheaper plates often have issues with. When I flatten a Jnat with my NL-5 I never get the sensation of a larger particle making a scratchy noise and vibrating the knife like when I use DMT or Atoma stuff. Previously I had been rinsing off my naturals after lapping to avoid this. I have not felt this is necessary with the Nanohone plates.


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## inferno (Nov 15, 2019)

well i guess no one really knows if its worth it with the nono diamond plates. *there has to be some kind of general consensus before people jump in*. no one wants to "bite into the sour dick" as we say around here. 

most "marketing/promotion/info" from manufacturers in the knife/stone biz is just plain BS through and trough. and we all know this. so people take claims with a grain of salt, or 7. you know.

personally i'm wearing out 1 plate a year. no matter the maker. so should i wear out a 70 bux plate or a 200 one? the regular nanos might last longer than atomas/dmts and they simply might not. 

I think the button plates looks promising though. yeah those will last looong. so if i'm getting one of the nanohone products its the button plates. i have the rest kinda covered for all prossible grits from 220 to 15-20k. with several stones in each bracket. its like a candy shop here.


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## M1k3 (Nov 15, 2019)

Exactly. We're not sure how long they'll last. I've only ever used the NL-4 for a week. It was well made with nice touches of the finger grips. For me it was really the price VS unknown long term durability. About $200 for unknown long term durability or $70-80 for Atoma with known weaknesses, about $180ish for DMT Dia-Flat with known weaknesses...


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## inferno (Nov 15, 2019)

i think the diaflats are better than atomas and regular dmts. i have had mine for like 1-1,5 years and its much smoother than new, but not really smooth at all. so i'd say it works as advertised somewhat.

And i have not babied it for a single minute. its always max possible pressure on flat, full hard bevels and coarse (220) stones. also flattened 4 banana shaped missarka sintered alox stones (think spyderco) / 8 sides... that would easily have killed an atoma by far. i dont care. i bought it because it was made for abuse so i do that.

its like having a ferrari f40 in your garage. that only stays in your garage. then *** is it good for? you know. fuk that sh1t.


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## kayman67 (Nov 15, 2019)

Steel+Fire said:


> My favorite part of all this discussion is that many people here will shell out $300-$1000 for a knife that does exactly what the $40 Victorinox will do but they split hairs over paying another $100 bucks for a lapping plate that will last most of us for years for the amount of sharpening a home user or collectors do.
> 
> Like I said, tough crowd, most forums are by nature. I own the Nanohone and couple Atoma products and a DMT plate and there is no comparison. Just the backing plate with finger grooves and the fact that there is no suction between the plate and the stones provides a huge upgrade in performance and ease of use. I have only had my NL-5 for 6 months and have used it for maybe 3 sharpening session. No wear is visible and I do not detect any loose diamonds in the slurry like cheaper plates often have issues with. When I flatten a Jnat with my NL-5 I never get the sensation of a larger particle making a scratchy noise and vibrating the knife like when I use DMT or Atoma stuff. Previously I had been rinsing off my naturals after lapping to avoid this. I have not felt this is necessary with the Nanohone plates.



It's a bit more complicated.
A 40$ Vic doesn't really do what a good knife can. Is a 400$ one 10x better? That's something else. It doesn't work like that. Are there bad expensive knives? Sure, but that's more like one of the ideas here. How good is it? And above all, there's a principle at play here. The commercial is not great. Different prices (especially lower on Carter's site) won't look good unless they decide to make all of them the same. Prices going up right now, again not great.
Do you compare the slurry and surface made by NL-5 with Atoma 1200? If not, I would expect them not to be on par when something lower is used.


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## inferno (Nov 15, 2019)

yeah i would just like to add something about the diaflat (i have the finer variety, there are 2 different ones).

while it might have lasted longer than atomas and regular dmts. i'm still not sure if it was worth it. i mean i could have bought 3 atomas or dmts for this money. 
and since its not finished yet. i cant really say if its economically better than them. to be honest it feels like its on par. 

but who knows, it might stay slightly dulled/slow for the rest of eternity and never get worse. and the borgs will excavate it in like 7000 years and asses its quality. its a possibility. but i kinda doubt it...

price per hardened steel gram abraded i'd guess its on par with everything else. unfortunately. and i dont believe in the fairytales of the other makers either. diamonds are not forever. unless you have 5 fukn mm of them!!
which the button plates seems to have.

my future coarse stone strategy will be a button plate and shapton 120/220 as sacrifical stones. done. fukn done! its gotta be the fastest and cheapest way in the long run. and when somebody invents something more effective for the money than the shapton i will switch to that.


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## Brian Weekley (Nov 15, 2019)

Just finished re-watching Carter’s YouTube video on sharpening a knife to push cut single ply toilet paper. It’s worth a watch.


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## inferno (Nov 15, 2019)

one of my coworkers showed me a guy on instagram cutting "household paper" (thicker toilet paper) with his single bevels. so i set out to do the same (but with actual toilet paper)

took some carbon blade to 12k. 2 different stones superstone 12k and shappro12k - it just slides on the paper, will not grab. i could however filé the paper in 2 or 3 if i folded into a tube.

shappro 8k same deal. but now it wont filé the toilet paper.

glass 6k hc. now it starts to grab the toilet paper. just barely, its rips 90% and cuts 10%

glass 4k rips 80% cuts 20%.

glass 3k rips 50% cuts 50%

you can see where this is going right.

didn't even try a 1k or whatever i would have to do for it to cut 100% and tear 0%

so whenever i see someone cutting toilet paper as some kind of demonstration of how sharp something is, i feel i should just fax them a pic of my dick with a smiley face on it. since this impress me about 0,73%.very low on my impressed scale to be honest.

imo anything under 2k is not even sharp at all. so why the hell even put such an edge on there?? its laughable. a parlor trick. **** that **** imo.


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## Barclid (Nov 15, 2019)

inferno said:


> one of my coworkers showed me a guy on instagram cutting "household paper" (thicker toilet paper) with his single bevels. so i set out to do the same (but with actual toilet paper)
> 
> took some carbon blade to 12k. 2 different stones superstone 12k and shappro12k - it just slides on the paper, will not grab. i could however filé the paper in 2 or 3 if i folded into a tube.
> 
> ...



If you can't slice the toilet paper/paper towel with a more refined edge, you're probably doing something wrong. https://imgur.com/a/npG8uW9 This is some of the shittiest toilet paper I've ever wiped my ass with. That's a 6k edge, and I could get similar results with a finer stone.


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## Brian Weekley (Nov 15, 2019)

Actually what impressed me the most about the video was how Murray sharpened the knife on a “U” shaped King 1000 stone and stropped it on a piece of newspaper laid on the “U” shaped stone. Nary a $200 Nanohone flattening plate to be seen. Imagine how much sharper the knife would have been if Murray could afford “modern” sharpening gear!


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## inferno (Nov 15, 2019)

Barclid said:


> If you can't slice the toilet paper/paper towel with a more refined edge, you're probably doing something wrong. https://imgur.com/a/npG8uW9 This is some of the shittiest toilet paper I've ever wiped my ass with. That's a 6k edge, and I could get similar results with a finer stone.



i did not hold my paper at a down tilted angle. it was 90 degrees out. when doing this i also noticed it was much easier to cut the paper holding it like in the vid posted.

i was trying to do it the hardest way possible.

good luck doing it holding the paper horizonthal with the 6k edge. just saying. and i did not try to cut mine 1cm from my fingers. i did it about 4-5 cm out. that being said. the best results is to be had with a zero edge at 1k stone or so. not a very impressive test for me at least.


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## inferno (Nov 15, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> Actually what impressed me the most about the video was how Murray sharpened the knife on a “U” shaped King 1000 stone and stropped it on a piece of newspaper laid on the “U” shaped stone. Nary a $200 Nanohone flattening plate to be seen. Imagine how much sharper the knife would have been if Murray could afford “modern” sharpening gear!



very often its not the arrow, its the indian...


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## Barclid (Nov 15, 2019)

inferno said:


> i did not hold my paper at a down tilted angle. it was 90 degrees out. when doing this i also noticed it was much easier to cut the paper holding it like in the vid posted.
> 
> i was trying to do it the hardest way possible.
> 
> good luck doing it holding the paper horizonthal with the 6k edge. just saying. and i did not try to cut mine 1cm from my fingers. i did it about 4-5 cm out. that being said. the best results is to be had with a zero edge at 1k stone or so. not a very impressive test for me at least.


Toilet paper doesn't stay 90 degrees when 4-5cm from your fingers unless the other end is held in place with something. What are you on?


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## inferno (Nov 16, 2019)

Exactly! its hard to do.
If you hold 1 sheet it definitely stays at 90 deg, 5cm out. almost impossible to cut though.

I did some testing today with a kurosaki AS santoku.
starting with a worn dmt325 then strop on linen/leather. no good.
glass 500, coarse linen, leather. so so result. sometimes its would cut the paper cleanly but most of the time it would tear somewhere halfway.
glass 1k, linen, leather, ok result but its too unpredictable.
glass 2k, linen only (from a razor strop), cuts it every time! mystery solved.

this was at an angle sloping down. maybe 1,5cm from my fingers.
i also noticed that the paper is easier to cut in one direction than the other.


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## Michi (Nov 16, 2019)

inferno said:


> glass 4k rips 80% cuts 20%


Recently, someone posted a video of a knife sharpened to 5 nm cutting double- and single-ply tissue paper. That was for a folding knife made of a steel with very small (1 nm) carbides. (Sorry, I can't remember which steel and can't find the link.) That knife seemed to cut the paper quite well.

Regardless, I agree that doing this is just a parlour trick. For real-life use in a kitchen, there is absolutely no point in sharpening to that degree. Especially considering that, after the first five cuts of pretty much anything, that 5 nm edge will have turned into a 1 µm edge anyway (which is still extremely sharp).

To me, the sweet spot is between 1,000 grit finishing (for soft-steel knives, e.g. Wüsthof or Opinel) and 5,000 grit for my Japanese knives. Pragmatically, 3,000 grit gets a knife bloody sharp. For my yanagiba, I go up to 10,000 grit but, likely, that's a waste of time. I may well be deluding myself that the knife cuts better after the 10,000-grit sharpening than it did after the 5,000-grit sharpening.

For general-purpose knives, going to grits above 5,000 seems counter-productive. I find that things such as fresh chilli are harder to cut with a more refined edge because the "bite" goes missing and the blade has a tendency to just glide over the waxy skin (which matches your observation that a rougher edge cuts tissue paper better than a highly-refined one).


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## Michi (Nov 16, 2019)

inferno said:


> i also noticed that the paper is easier to cut in one direction than the other


Paper has fibres and, depending on the type of paper, they are typically aligned mostly in one direction. Cutting across the fibres is harder than cutting along them.


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## inferno (Nov 16, 2019)

yeah i agree. i like 2-3k for SS and 6k or so for carbon and i don't really care that i personally cant cut paper with the 6k, its still sharper no matter what.

i just found it funny when my buddy showed me some vids of a guy cutting toilet paper. "its so sharp he can cut toilet paper"... 
and while it looks impressive it only took a 2k edge for me. so not that impressive in real life i guess.


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## parbaked (Nov 16, 2019)

I never cut toilet paper...I just feel bad that someone took so much time and effort to put all those little perforations in exactly the right place...


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## Barclid (Nov 17, 2019)

Michi said:


> Recently, someone posted a video of a knife sharpened to 5 nm cutting double- and single-ply tissue paper. That was for a folding knife made of a steel with very small (1 nm) carbides. (Sorry, I can't remember which steel and can't find the link.) That knife seemed to cut the paper quite well.
> 
> Regardless, I agree that doing this is just a parlour trick. For real-life use in a kitchen, there is absolutely no point in sharpening to that degree. Especially considering that, after the first five cuts of pretty much anything, that 5 nm edge will have turned into a 1 µm edge anyway (which is still extremely sharp).
> 
> ...


The TP in that video doesn't. It's the super cheap industry **** that tears up your ass. My TP at home does and also happens to be easier to slice because of it. Anyway, nuances of toilet paper aside, I agree with you that it's just for show. Just saying that you can certainly slice it with a finer edge with little issue.


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## Carl Kotte (Nov 17, 2019)

inferno said:


> imo anything under 2k is not even sharp at all. so why the hell even put such an edge on there??



I don’t get this opinion to be frank. Why do you categorically assert that a knife isn’t sharp if it’s sharpened on a grit below 2k? I agree that 2k edge behaves differently from an 8k edge. Still, when properly sharpened a 2k can be screaming sharp. 
As a side-note: I’ve done everything on Shapton glass 1k the last months. It makes for sharp edges for sure.


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## inferno (Nov 17, 2019)

well i atleast dont put low grit edges on knives that takes much finer edges. it feels different with higher grit and to me it feels much better.
there is a hell of a difference between a 1 and 6k edge. that being said, i dont take edges above what i deem them capable off,

even a 500 edge or 325 cuts stuff quite well. but calling it sharp (for a kitchen knife) is a bit exaggerated i think.

if you think a 1k edge is enough for you, use that. we all have different preferences. there is no universal right or wrong.
but for me to get a 1k good i would have to strop it quite well i noticed, and if so, then i can just as well put it on a 3k stone instead, because the invested time is the same. and i dont usually like to strop knives at all (and thats my preference)


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## kayman67 (Nov 17, 2019)

I cut anything just to feel stuff. 
The biggest problem with this cutting is not the cutting itself, but the way it feels and that's something you can't experience in front of the screen. I think this pushed things in the wrong direction of understanding at some point. Maybe this should be explained more often. For example, I sometimes cut paper not to see or show that I can cut paper, but to feel how the edge is or the knife itself. Tissue is even better for some applications. That's about it.


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## Nikabrik (Nov 19, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> I cut anything just to feel stuff.
> The biggest problem with this cutting is not the cutting itself, but the way it feels and that's something you can't experience in front of the screen. I think this pushed things in the wrong direction of understanding at some point. Maybe this should be explained more often. For example, I sometimes cut paper not to see or show that I can cut paper, but to feel how the edge is or the knife itself. Tissue is even better for some applications. That's about it.


Exactly. The point for me is to slice using the entire edge, and locate any spots where it catches or stalls out. Then I can evaluate those areas for burr removal.


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## M1k3 (Nov 19, 2019)

Cktgo has the stones on closeout, for anyone interested in them. Unfortunately the 200 and 3k aren't available from them. Wonder if that's an effect from Murray Carter carrying and endorsing them.


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## Barclid (Nov 20, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> Cktgo has the stones on closeout, for anyone interested in them. Unfortunately the 200 and 3k aren't available from them. Wonder if that's an effect from Murray Carter carrying and endorsing them.


Those are the old plates and in some cases old formulation of the stone.


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## M1k3 (Nov 20, 2019)

Barclid said:


> Those are the old plates and in some cases old formulation of the stone.



Eww lol


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## KingShapton (Nov 20, 2019)

This is the first time I hear of a Nanohone 3000, I have always looked at the German provider Dictum, there are only 400, 1000 and 6000.

With a 3000 stone, it is unfortunately interesting .... Has anyone tested the 3000 already? Is there a review somewhere online?

And how can one distinguish whether it is the old formulation of the stones or the new formulation?


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## kayman67 (Nov 20, 2019)

I don't think it's out yet. About 2 weeks ago was announced as possible pre order option.


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## KingShapton (Nov 20, 2019)

I found the Nanohone 3000 on Carter's homepage. $ 80 + $ 70 shipping to Germany.

I would be curious about others' experiences with this stone, but as long as it is not available in Germany, that is theoretically anyway. And I would only be interested if the stone is a big improvement to the Shapton Glass 3000, and that's hard to imagine.


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## kayman67 (Nov 20, 2019)

Dictum should get the #200 option. Maybe 3000 will be there as well.


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## M1k3 (Nov 20, 2019)

I'd imagine the 3k stone would be similar to Shapton Glass but with a higher polish


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## inferno (Nov 20, 2019)

if everybody in this thread starts emailing dictum to stock up on the 200 and 3k maybe they will?
we could also do a spam campaign telling them to lower the button plate prices by 50%, that would be cool


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## inferno (Nov 20, 2019)

KingShapton said:


> And I would only be interested if the stone is a big improvement to the Shapton Glass 3000, and that's hard to imagine.



i kinda doubt it.


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## Matus (Nov 20, 2019)

Dictum already has the 200 - i will be ordering one soon


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## kayman67 (Nov 20, 2019)

200 should be 100%, as it was announced by the company. Maybe 3000 is just with Carter's site for a while. Who knows. They also announced some improvements for some diamond plates. Not sure exactly what. They're really not good at communicating stuff.

So far the 400 seems more natural than synthetic, the slurry starts a really good polish for that grit or even higher (never seen anything like it in this range), the edge pretty much tops Shapton Pro 2000 with proper technique, as the stone is quite fast. It might work as one stone deal for many.
*these guys should start paying me.


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## Barclid (Nov 20, 2019)

KingShapton said:


> This is the first time I hear of a Nanohone 3000, I have always looked at the German provider Dictum, there are only 400, 1000 and 6000.
> 
> With a 3000 stone, it is unfortunately interesting .... Has anyone tested the 3000 already? Is there a review somewhere online?
> 
> And how can one distinguish whether it is the old formulation of the stones or the new formulation?


I've tried the 3k. Feels pretty much the same as the 6k in use but not as fine (duh). Friability, speed of loading, feedback all very similar.


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## inferno (Nov 20, 2019)

for me with a low grit stone, like under 500. i simply want the fastest cutting/slowest dishing/slowest clogging/s&g stone that needs the fewest touchups due to worn abrasives.

I dont really care if it break down to a 2k edge or so. i have 30 other stones. i want max performance and durability in its grit range.

I think the only stone that "breaks down" i have liked enough to keep that is the chosera 800 and 1k. yeah and also the shapton 220ies. those are good too.


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## inferno (Nov 20, 2019)

Barclid said:


> I've tried the 3k. Feels pretty much the same as the 6k in use but not as fine (duh). Friability, speed of loading, feedback all very similar.



good enough to buy in your opinion?


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## kayman67 (Nov 20, 2019)

Not sure about touch ups, as this is highly user dependent, but everything else is best in class, plus a few extras that most people might like or need.


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## KingShapton (Nov 20, 2019)

Which extras are we talking about here?


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## kayman67 (Nov 20, 2019)

Maybe all of them. What would you want it to do?


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## KingShapton (Nov 21, 2019)

I want it to be fast, I want a aggressive edge with lots of bite, slow dishing.


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## kayman67 (Nov 21, 2019)

It's fast. The other 2 will be influenced by how it's used.


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## KingShapton (Nov 21, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> The other 2 will be influenced by how it's used.


can you explain that in more detail? Or something more accurate?


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## kayman67 (Nov 21, 2019)

You can make a great slurry on it or pretty much none at all, depending on how it's used and I guess this is experience related. Same thing with pressure. The good part is that even if pushed, the edge won't plunge into the stone, as it is on the hard side, but it's also fast. Both these elements will determine the edge you get. With a few low pressure passes I got my deba to cut paper with no marks at all, very clean, no feeling of cutting. Before that, the edge was overly aggressive.


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## KingShapton (Nov 21, 2019)

Thanks you


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## kayman67 (Nov 21, 2019)

To some extent, the same applies to #200. If I were to guess, this was done on purpose with the changes they made.


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## Barclid (Nov 22, 2019)

inferno said:


> good enough to buy in your opinion?


It's just not my style. Loads very quickly on mono steel and is both slow to dish while being easy to gouge. Not my cup of tea. It has a niche for me as a middling fine pre-polish stone if I'm going for a no scratch finish but that's rare.


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