# Reco. needed; Zwilling vs Messermeister



## Various121 (Apr 14, 2014)

Zwilling Professional S vs Messermeister Meridian Elite

*Location*: New York, USA

*Type*: 7-piece block set (see explanation below)
*Handedness*: Right
*Handle*: Western
*Length*: Various
*Stainless*: not required
*Maximum*: $280

*Use*: Home, novice cook
*Tasks*: Various home tasks, breaking poulty bone not in forseeable future
*Replacing*: Whole set
*Grip*: Nothing in particular
*Motions*: Slice, chop
*Improvements*: All, replacing an Ikea set

*Cutting board*: End grain acacia
*Do you sharpen*: No
*If not, are you interested*: yes
*Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products*: yes

Two-weeks away from marriage and trying to replacing my fiance's old Ikea set. She can care less about the knives but I have a certain appreciation for the art; my EDC rotation consists of a Benchmade Megumi, Kershaw Onion and Case Russlock.

Why a block set when it's universally panned? We're novice cooks, learning together at home. The two big reasons are total cost and that she would still like a nice set to have out on the counter. We're not skilled enough to invest in hundereds per knife (yet) nor do we cook enough (yet) to justify it but I would still like a set that will last for some time with proper care. The two sets consist of:

Zwilling: full bolster, 8" chef, 4" paring, 5" serrated utility, 6" utility, 9" honing steel, shears, 14 slot block

Messermeister: half bolster, 8" chef, 3.5" paring, 6" offset bread, 4.5" utility, 9" honing steel, shears, 10 slot block

Any opinions or insight would be helpful. There's a ton out there on Henkel's but not a lot on Messermeister.

Thanks guys.


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## Jordanp (Apr 14, 2014)

Personally I would go with this http://www.cutleryandmore.com/victorinox-forschner-rosewood/deluxe-knife-block-set-p1715 if you are really into getting a block.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 14, 2014)

Before I got involved with Japanese knives, I was considering Messermeister Meridian Elite, and went so far as to buy a paring knife to check it out. As I recall, the fit and finish were excellent, and the steel took a decent edge. It certainly is the equal of the Zwilling, at least the Four Star chef's I had at that time.

One of the reasons I was considering Messermeister was that it does not have a finger guard to interfere with sharpening. For that reason alone, I would pick Messermeister over Zwilling. 

Oh, yeah - congratulations on your upcoming nuptuals.

Rick


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## daveb (Apr 14, 2014)

Within your constraints I would go with the Messermeister. I have occasion to use either Wustie, Henckel, Shun or Messermeister frequently, I like the Messr - particularly the 9" chef, among those choices. The Messr is not marketed as aggressively as the others but IMO is the better knife. The half bolster will also facilitate sharpening whether you do it yourself or have it done.


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## gic (Apr 14, 2014)

Why not get a forschner/victorinox set at cutlery and more they are on sale at a good price and you can use the money you save to get a king 1000/6000


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## ThEoRy (Apr 14, 2014)

I know you don't want to hear it but... don't get a set. For $300 you can get several knives (3) of a much higher quality to do all of the work you need. Later on get a mag bar and display them near the cutting board. They will still look nice and perform better.


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## Various121 (Apr 15, 2014)

gic said:


> Why not get a forschner/victorinox set at cutlery and more they are on sale at a good price and you can use the money you save to get a king 1000/6000



For whatever reason, my rational side has never been able to compete with gut reaction; it's been that way for pocket knives, watches, whatever else. The Victorinox set doesn't speak to me. I don't know why, even though my brain knows its a good set.



ThEoRy said:


> I know you don't want to hear it but... don't get a set. For $300 you can get several knives (3) of a much higher quality to do all of the work you need. Later on get a mag bar and display them near the cutting board. They will still look nice and perform better.



1) Of the sets I mentioned above, which it the lesser of two evils?

2) I think I might make it into another thread, but with my pricing constraints above ($280, max), what kind of set would you make? Remember, I'll need a block too (unless I just reuse her IKEA block); we plan on getting a mag bar when we move from condo to house (no room now).


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 15, 2014)

Jordanp said:


> Personally I would go with this http://www.cutleryandmore.com/victorinox-forschner-rosewood/deluxe-knife-block-set-p1715 if you are really into getting a block.



I tend to agree more useful blades like boning knife, Ham slicer which can be used for many duties, no bolster's at all. No need shears on a block just take up a lot of space. The Forschner steel is not bad & not that hard to sharpen either.


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## The Anti-Chrysler (Apr 15, 2014)

I've always thought knife sets were kind of a waste of $$. 90% of home food prep can be handled between a 8"-10" gyuto and a 4" paring knife. Throw in a decent bread knife, and a 6" santoku/nakiri/or gyuto, depending on preference, and you'll be set. IMO, $300 spent on four good knives is much better money spent than a $300 seven or eight piece set.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 15, 2014)

The Anti-Chrysler said:


> I've always thought knife sets were kind of a waste of $$. 90% of home food prep can be handled between a 8"-10" gyuto and a 4" paring knife. Throw in a decent bread knife, and a 6" santoku/nakiri/or gyuto, depending on preference, and you'll be set. IMO, $300 spent on four good knives is much better money spent than a $300 seven or eight piece set.



Everybody, we have got to start reading what the poster says, and not put our own prejudices in play. He very clearly said "...she would still like a nice set to have out on the counter...", yet the argument against a set is still brought out in most all of the replies. Let's start responding to the question, okay?


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## Various121 (Apr 15, 2014)

The Anti-Chrysler said:


> I've always thought knife sets were kind of a waste of $$. 90% of home food prep can be handled between a 8"-10" gyuto and a 4" paring knife. Throw in a decent bread knife, and a 6" santoku/nakiri/or gyuto, depending on preference, and you'll be set. IMO, $300 spent on four good knives is much better money spent than a $300 seven or eight piece set.



If you read my original post you'll see the two sets only come with four knives. I'm not going for a 10, 11, 22 piece set. I'm trying to keep it as minimal as possible while still considering my fiance's wishes.



Pensacola Tiger said:


> Everybody, we have got to start reading what the poster says, and not put our own prejudices in play. He very clearly said "...she would still like a nice set to have out on the counter...", yet the argument against a set is still brought out in most all of the replies. Let's start responding to the question, okay?



Thank you. Over time and as I develop my skill set and knowledge, I do plan on investing in better knives because that's just how I am. Unfortunately for now, I'm stuck with the parameters set-forth in my original post.


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## labor of love (Apr 15, 2014)

Is it possible to stretch your budget just a little bit more? if so, you should definitely grab this Mac Pro block set. The mac pro line is alot better than any of the aforementioned knives. http://www.cutleryandmore.com/mac-professional/knife-block-set-p110217


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## Various121 (Apr 15, 2014)

labor of love said:


> Is it possible to stretch your budget just a little bit more? if so, you should definitely grab this Mac Pro block set. The mac pro line is alot better than any of the aforementioned knives. http://www.cutleryandmore.com/mac-professional/knife-block-set-p110217



I wish I could. That's a nice looking set and I'm sure better than my choices but it's also double the price of the lowest of my two sets. Believe it or not $280 is me stretching it out at this point.


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## CoqaVin (Apr 15, 2014)

If you want to save money go with a Tojiro DP 3 piece set then use the block you already have maybe?


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## daveb (Apr 15, 2014)

By my count you've had two responses to your question - both favored the Messermeister. 

And some interesting and well thought though ultimately unresponsive answers to questions you did not ask.

Good luck in your search.


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## Various121 (Apr 15, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> If you want to save money go with a Tojiro DP 3 piece set then use the block you already have maybe?



Hmmm, that might not be a terrible idea. Should I assume the Tojiro DP line is superior to the other two lines, enough to make a difference?


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## CoqaVin (Apr 15, 2014)

I do not know much about the Messers the Zwillings sort of? I personally do not like the profile of a Zwilling it is weird to me? Maybe someone else can chime in on the Tojiro I have not owned one personally but the steel is most likely better VG10. I know that Tojiro does one of the best heat treats on its VG10 steel. I also see this recommended a lot to beginners as well. Just throwing another option out there


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 15, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> If you want to save money go with a Tojiro DP 3 piece set then use the block you already have maybe?



Not a bad idea, the two smaller knives are very similar though. I would go for the the 2 piece set at Cultlery & More Tojiro DP 8.25 gyuto & 3.5 paring knife sale at 99.95. Then you have 2 useful blades that are better quality with VG-10 steel.

I have used & sharpened the 240mm Tojiro DP it works well & has a better profile than most set knives. As long as the 8.25 fits in your block.Then you can add a coupe blades later as you might see a need.


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## CoqaVin (Apr 15, 2014)

keithsaltydog said:


> Not a bad idea, the two smaller knives are very similar though. I would go for the the 2 piece set at Cultlery & More Tojiro DP 8.25 gyuto & 3.5 paring knife sale at 99.95. Then you have 2 useful blades that are better quality with VG-10 steel.
> 
> I have used & sharpened the 240mm Tojiro DP it works well & has a better profile than most set knives. As long as the 8.25 fits in your block.Then you can add a coupe blades later as you might see a need.



This is true salty. If a bread knife is a must the Tojiro ITK bread knife is cool


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## mhpr262 (Apr 15, 2014)

On a side note: The "Messermeister" brand knives are actually "Burgvogel" knives, made by Karl Bahns Ltd., Solingen. They are just sold under a different name in the US.

http://www.burgvogel.de/index2.htm

IMHO there isn't a lot difference between the Zwilling and the Burgvogels, AFAIK they both use the same steel tempered to the same hardness. It msostly depends on how you like the handles.

Have you looked at F. Dick knives? I collect mostly Euro knives and those have have become something of my favourites. The "Premier Plus" and the "Superior" series have great handles. Don't know if you can get over the brand name though :biggrin:


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## Various121 (Apr 15, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> This is true salty. If a bread knife is a must the Tojiro ITK bread knife is cool



I would buy a bread knife and use it to multi-task with tomoates and what not, only because I'm not huge on bread. Although, isn't $80 a bit excessive for a bread knife? From what I've read, because of the serrated edge, a cheaper knife ($15-$20) would work as well as a more expensive knife. Thoughts?



mhpr262 said:


> On a side note: The "Messermeister" brand knives are actually "Burgvogel" knives, made by Karl Bahns Ltd., Solingen. They are just sold under a different name in the US.
> 
> http://www.burgvogel.de/index2.htm
> 
> ...



I didn't know that. If there isn't much difference, I supposed I would lean towards the Burgvogels as they have the half bolster.

F. Dick you say? I'll have to look into them, I have no problem with the name...


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## CoqaVin (Apr 15, 2014)

It is not just a bread knife my friend.

[video=youtube;dvNs4zB6zXg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvNs4zB6zXg[/video]

It is much different then most other bread knives. It has scalloped serrations an offset handle


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## Various121 (Apr 15, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> It is not just a bread knife my friend...
> It is much different then most other bread knives. It has scalloped serrations an offset handle



I can see this forum can get expensive. In an effort to save money and look at other brands besides the Tojiro, I guess what I'm looking for in a bread knife is scalloped serrations and an offset handle? 

If I were to still go with one of my two original sets, that would make me lean more towards the Mess.


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## ThEoRy (Apr 15, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> It is not just a bread knife my friend.
> 
> [video=youtube;dvNs4zB6zXg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvNs4zB6zXg[/video]
> 
> It is much different then most other bread knives. It has scalloped serrations an offset handle




Meh, that guy is ok.


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## rami_m (Apr 15, 2014)

ThEoRy said:


> Meh, that guy is ok.



I heard he frequents these parts


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 15, 2014)

mhpr262 said:


> On a side note: The "Messermeister" brand knives are actually "Burgvogel" knives, made by Karl Bahns Ltd., Solingen. They are just sold under a different name in the US.
> 
> http://www.burgvogel.de/index2.htm
> 
> ...



I have a Dickoron oval polishing steel luv it. It has (DICK polish) in gold letters on the blue handle. Who ever designed that handle had a sick sense of humor:O


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