# Looking for a KS clone



## alanhuth (Aug 29, 2017)

I am seeking recommendations for a good KS clone, preferably at least as good as the original Masamoto. Has anyone come up with a generally accepted equal or improvement? 

I am on the CKTG waiting list for an original. Are there other lists I should try to get on? Ive read that no more originals are coming. Does anyone know, or suspect, otherwise? 

All feedback appreciated. 

Thanks,

Alan


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## StephenYu (Aug 29, 2017)

People said the Doi gyuto at CKTG has a KS profile. I think the next batch is coming in soon.


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## DeepCSweede (Aug 29, 2017)

The Marko Tsourkan being sold in BST looks pretty darn close to a KS profile while only being a 225mm. Probably a better grind too. Marko does occasionally do KS profile knives.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 29, 2017)

Alan, Check out Yusuke Sakai. KS Clone in Swedish SS.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=yusuke sakai&ssPageName=GSTL


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## labor of love (Aug 29, 2017)

James at [email protected] carries an akebono gyuto that I think has a similar profile.


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## Timthebeaver (Aug 29, 2017)

The Sakai Yusuke SS has a "regular" Sakai profile. There were (literally) a couple of the KS "clone", which were thicker as well as "extra harden" (sic). Rare as hen's teeth.


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## JaVa (Aug 29, 2017)

Doesn't the stainless version have the same profile and those can still be found?


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## Timthebeaver (Aug 29, 2017)

A regular Yusuke has a similar profile to an Ashi, Tad or Kono SS. But not a KS.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 29, 2017)

Tim, Ten four, yea the ones I have extra hard and extra thick


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## Timthebeaver (Aug 29, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Tim, Ten four, yea the ones I have extra hard and extra thick



Regret not picking one of those up when they were (briefly) available. Was one click away from the white ferrule one haha.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 29, 2017)

Yep, that when I got mine. I don't think Keiichi has seen them since, The Extra Thin are pretty rare too. I sold my extra thin White 210, why, who knows something better right?


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## brooksie967 (Aug 29, 2017)

StephenYu said:


> People said the Doi gyuto at CKTG has a KS profile. I think the next batch is coming in soon.



I can see the profile being similar but nothing about the grind is the same. My 270 KS is approaching laser territory.


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## Duckfat (Aug 29, 2017)

JaVa said:


> Doesn't the stainless version have the same profile and those can still be found?



Yes. IIR I just saw one online at Korin the other day. 
The Doi in Blue #2 looks mighty tempting for the $$!

Dave


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## dwalker (Aug 29, 2017)

The Doi is similar to the KS in profile only. The grind is heavy and convex. It is a nice knife indeed but there could not be a bigger difference in how these two perform.


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## Droahrig3 (Aug 30, 2017)

Get with marko.. my 225 s ground ks does everything so well.. I want other gyutos, just don't need them..


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## Omega (Aug 30, 2017)

KS clones are a tricky thing, because there are definitely a few different aspects that contribute to what people mean when they talk about a KS- Profile, grind, length and balance being big players. I won't pretend to have tried them all, but generally speaking, with respect to the KS clones out there, most people will say "it's a good knife, but it's not a KS". 

While every knife has it's differences, the commonalities I see posted about MOST true KS are- 
The 240 sits around 255mm in length.
Heel height around 48-50
The balance point is super well placed, helping such a long knife feel surprisingly nimble
Monosteel in White #2, with a laser-style grind.

If you're just looking for the profile, it is utilized often, and can be found by a few makers. Konosuke had a 'Funayuki' shape in both their HD2 and Fujiyama lines that took inspiration from this. Ikeda (not Yoshikazu or Tatsuo) makes some blades for CKTG with this shape. They have one in R-2 by Shibata Kashima. The aforementioned san mai by Itsuo Doi. And then there's western makers that have takes on it too. 

The Doi san mai in B#2 is a good example of being iterative on the KS profile. It's san mai vs monosteel. It's around 240 vs the 255 of most KS. And the grind is wildly different. It is a very thick and substantial blade (by comparison). So if you're looking for something that's as close as you can get to an original KS, I'd recommend looking elsewhere. But if it's just the profile you'd like to try, then the Doi gets a big thumbs up from me. In hand, it kind of reminds me of a Shigefusa. While not as long and suji-feeling as a KS, the Doi feels like it has a lot of power. Vastly superior food stickage, too- I'm not one that usually cares for this, but it was good enough to be noticeable and pleasant to me. The longer, thinner tip still gives some of the dexterity that the KS provides. Reactivity was a lot less than my KS as well.. And the price is really stellar.. It feels like a lot of knife for $300.


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## K813zra (Aug 30, 2017)

Omega said:


> KS clones are a tricky thing, because there are definitely a few different aspects that contribute to what people mean when they talk about a KS- Profile, grind, length and balance being big players. I won't pretend to have tried them all, but generally speaking, with respect to the KS clones out there, most people will say "it's a good knife, but it's not a KS".
> 
> While every knife has it's differences, the commonalities I see posted about MOST true KS are-
> The 240 sits around 255mm in length.
> ...



The Ikeda knives on CKTG no longer have a KS profile. That R2 by Shibata is getting a lot of traction, it seems.


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## Timthebeaver (Aug 30, 2017)

No mention of the OG KS "clone"/ripoff, the Moritaka KS.

Come to mention it, surely it's Moritaka's turn to come back into vogue?


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## HRC_64 (Aug 30, 2017)

You know this is a dead end, right?
Just think... if masamoto cannot even clone the KS, nobody else can.


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## Meesterleester (Aug 30, 2017)

I've read that the Funayuki profile used for the Konosuke lines was originally based on the Murray Carter Funayuki and also out of production and really hard to come by. I agree with the sentiment that most clones are good knives but don't really clone that special something. I've heard some poor reviews of the Doi clone that recently can out as well, shibata seems better executed.


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## labor of love (Aug 30, 2017)

Meesterleester said:


> I've read that the Funayuki profile used for the Konosuke lines was originally based on the Murray Carter Funayuki and also out of production and really hard to come by. I agree with the sentiment that most clones are good knives but don't really clone that special something. I've heard some poor reviews of the Doi clone that recently can out as well, shibata seems better executed.



I had an HD funayaki, it was like 225-228mm long though, unlike a 250mm KS.


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## zitangy (Aug 30, 2017)

Timthebeaver said:


> The Sakai Yusuke SS has a "regular" Sakai profile. There were (literally) a couple of the KS "clone", which were thicker as well as "extra harden" (sic). Rare as hen's teeth.



Hey... reference the extra hardness for the Stainless Steel, that might be interesting... in which range.. 62/63 Hrc? 

tks and rgds Z


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## Timthebeaver (Aug 31, 2017)

zitangy said:


> Hey... reference the extra hardness for the Stainless Steel, that might be interesting... in which range.. 62/63 Hrc?
> 
> tks and rgds Z



61HRC compared with the "standard" 59HRC, as stated in the description/listing.


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## zitangy (Aug 31, 2017)

Timthebeaver said:


> 61HRC compared with the "standard" 59HRC, as stated in the description/listing.



Thanks Tim... i am looking for 63 hrc stainless steel. Not many bladesmiths do stainless in Sakai. I only know of 1 in Sakai....

at 59/60.. needs frequent touch ups/ sharpenings

rgds z


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## ChrisLehrer (Aug 31, 2017)

I've been a little out of the loop lately. What's happened to Masamoto KS knives? Their catalog still has a full list.


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## fatboylim (Aug 31, 2017)

Nothing will be an identical clone to the KS. That said, there are certain upgraded/downgraded versions with the same French profile. 

Doi gyuto 240 is blue 2 and convex which is an upgrade to edge retention and food release, but a downgrade to ultimate sharpness and performance. For those that like Toyama over Konosuke might like this one. 

The Shibata R2 looks to be an upgrade on edge retention, with a downgrade to ultimate sharpness, equal performance, potentially downgraded edge stability.

As with everything, the French profile is a classic. The KS is the white 2 monosteel classic. Note: the monosteel feel on the board is something some will find addictive with the KS!


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## K813zra (Aug 31, 2017)

HRC_64 said:


> You know this is a dead end, right?
> Just think... if masamoto cannot even clone the KS, nobody else can.



Sounds like poor quality control...


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## HRC_64 (Aug 31, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Sounds like poor quality control...



handmade is as handmade does. 

the original design appears to be very sensitive
to minor changes in materials and geometry

no surprise other smiths cannot replicate the work.


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## K813zra (Aug 31, 2017)

HRC_64 said:


> handmade is as handmade does.
> 
> the original design appears to be very sensitive
> to minor changes in materials and geometry
> ...



I don't know, the whole Masamoto thing has always sounded very esoteric to me. Loads of makers have blades that are very similar when compared to other makers. Then you have this one knife that nobody seems to be able to replicate...Sounds awful fishy to me. :laugh:


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## brooksie967 (Aug 31, 2017)

I've never tried anything like a KS other than a KS


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## fujiyama (Aug 31, 2017)

Just buy a Swedish Steel KS (SW-3124).


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## labor of love (Sep 1, 2017)

fujiyama said:


> Just buy a Swedish Steel KS (SW-3124).



I owned one for a 24hrs. It really is the same knife in every way except for steel.


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## fujiyama (Sep 1, 2017)

Did someone here purchase the KS honyaki from Buyee? I had my eye on it!


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## khashy (Sep 1, 2017)

fujiyama said:


> Did someone here purchase the KS honyaki from Buyee? I had my eye on it!



It was never available. They had no expected delivery date


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## fujiyama (Sep 1, 2017)

khashy said:


> It was never available. They had no expected delivery date



Dang. Not surprising though; the KS3124 I ordered from them wasn't available either.


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