# Help me Choose a 210mm Gyuto from Mizaki, Yoshikane, Wakui, and Hinoura



## Twotimehojo (Jun 26, 2020)

Hello!! The decision making is almost overwhelming. Need some help. I know the advice to buy them all. But not practical here

Deciding between these knives. Can someone comment on the grind and ease of sharpening. Why would I choose one over the other?
My questionaiire was filled out here: 





Gyuto or Bunka? Decision advice needed to start rabbit hole descent!


So very new as my number of posts attests. Filled questionnaire is below. What I have: Shun Classic 8in Chef for now over 10 years which I like a lot. I like the way it feels and the way it looks. But the forum suggests I am missing out on what a knife could be. I could get another gyuto but...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





Wakui 210 W2 Gyuto from CC.eu, Nashiji Finish





Gyuto


Gyuto Wakui Blade length: 215 mm



www.cleancut.eu





215mm Mizaki Gyuto from CC.eu, Migaki Finish





Gyuto


Gyuto Mazaki Blade length: 215 mm



www.cleancut.eu





210 (214mm) Mizaki Gyuto from CKC, Nashiji Finish








Mazaki White#2 Kuro Nashiji Gyuto 210mm


Naoki Mazaki is a blacksmith located in Sanjo, Niigata. He works alone in his small workshop and handles all aspects of his knife making. He focuses primarily on forging Shirogami (White) #2 carbon steel cladded in iron. The nashiji kurouchi displays all of the character and detail that happens...




carbonknifeco.com





210 Yoshikane Gyuto, W2 Iron Cladding, K Finish. Great looking knife IMO. Height is only 47mm though.








Yoshikane Kurouchi Tsuchime White #2 Gyuto 210mm Chestnut Handle


Yoshikane Hamono is located in Sanjo, Niigata and founded in 1919. It is lead by Mr. Kazuomi Yoshida who continues to excel and evolve in making high grade kitchen knives. This line is forged from a core steel of shirogami 2 (white 2) with iron cladding rated at 62-63 hrc. The blade has tsuchime...




carbonknifeco.com





210 Yoshikane Gyuto, W2 Iron Cladding, Nashiji Finish from CC.eu, There is the almost same knife in Kurochi finish too.





Gyuto


Gyuto Yoshikane Blade length: 210 mm



www.cleancut.eu





And to really throw into the mix.
210 Hinoura Gyuto, SS cladding. This may be my favorite but the most expensive.





Gyuto


Gyuto Hinoura - Aogami Super Blade length: 210 mm | Macassar ebony okto



www.cleancut.eu


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## VincentBeek (Jun 26, 2020)

I like the 210 Yoshikane Gyuto, W2 Iron Cladding, K Finish. Great looking knife IMO. Height is only 47mm though.

47 mm is not an issue with pinch grip and normal hands, should be fine.
I would not worry on sharpening on any of these knifes at all.


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## ian (Jun 26, 2020)

They'll all be a joy to sharpen, the Hinoura less so because it's Aogami Super (AS). The weight differences between the rest of them will be noticeable. In particular, the Carbon Knife Co (CKC) Mazaki will feel the most authoritative, I'd imagine. I haven't tried one of that batch yet, but people seem to like them. Had a knife very similar to the Wakui at some point and thought it was great. If you want a knife that'll just blow through produce, though, get the Yoshikane.


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## ian (Jun 26, 2020)

Also, the Hinoura and the Wakui are both "wide bevel" blades, meaning that you sharpen them a bit differently. You can touch up the edge when it needs it, but then you also sharpen the whole part of the knife under the black finish (kurouchi) with some frequency, so the knife stays thin behind the edge. Some people don't like the performance of wide bevels, others (including me) do like them for the ease of maintenance and the aesthetics. 

I don't think the other blades are true wide bevels.

You'll also have to decide whether you want an iron clad blade or a stainless clad one. All the knives are reactive at the edge (the Hinoura a bit less so than the others) but the most reactive part of the iron clad ones will be the iron, by far. It can require some care. You'll have to decide if you're up for that.


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## ian (Jun 26, 2020)

Don't think about this for more than 5 days, though. Just buy one. If you don't like it after a while, sell it and buy another one.


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## coffeelover191919 (Jun 26, 2020)

I like the Yoshikane with the hammered finish!!! 

My first 2 japanese gyutos were Aogami Super so you'll see that i prefer the edge retention on those. White steel has the capability of getting sharper than blue, but you'd need to have those sharpening skills to attain that. I don't think i'm there yet, but can get a knife shaving sharp, which is good enough for any food. 

My first 2 knives were 1. Kurouchi finish, 2. Hammered Kurouchi finish. (Kurouchi is the cheaper of most finishes) so my next one would likely be a migaki / polished finish either with or without hammering. 

Keep some available budget for 1 or 2 sharpening stones if you don't have them already.


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## Vladimir (Jun 26, 2020)

Hinoura +1


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## SeattleBen (Jun 26, 2020)

What Ian said. Plus it’ll be up to you to find out what you like and you’ll only find that out by using a knife. You’ll only lose a few dollars by reselling here and those will all move pretty quick.


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## daveb (Jun 26, 2020)

Yoshi ftw. Several good options out there, I'm partial to the one from Cleancut. CKC variant would also be a strong choice.


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## Kristoffer (Jun 26, 2020)

Mazaki is always the right answer  Seeing as how I have the 240 version of the CleanCut Migaki I would have wanted to try the KU from CKC  

I do love the migaki, but a word of warning - I find the cladding to be fairly reactive. Despite a decent patina it still stains onions pretty bad.


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## daveb (Jun 26, 2020)

I might be the only one here that's underwhelmed with Mazaki. Great example of a very average knife..

Isben was right!


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## soigne_west (Jun 26, 2020)

My maz was very underwhelming...at first. After hours upon hours of thinning, a new handle, and a semi decently looking petina it still just sits in my drawer... though it’s WAY better than it was.


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## sidey (Jun 26, 2020)

Flip a coin, you’ll almost certainly love whichever of those knees you go for.


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## Nagakin (Jun 26, 2020)

I'm biased towards Hinoura and then Yoshi. Wakui's other line is my favorite budget pick at $200 for 270 and cheaper. Never been interested in Maz either.


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## madmotts (Jun 26, 2020)

I picked up a Yoshi 240 W2 nashi from the forums and was impressed. It's just a pretty knife and a great cutter. I'm with you on the height, but I don't think it's deal breaker. Imo 47mm is not short for a 210. If cutting power and heft are your thing, the Mazaki fits the bill. I'm still trying to figure out what to make of mine. I don't have any experience with Hinoura... Got some great choices.


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## Nemo (Jun 26, 2020)

daveb said:


> I might be the only one here that's underwhelmed with Mazaki. Great example of a very average knife..
> 
> Isben was right!


I like my Mazaki as a heavily tapered heavy middleweight (even if the cladding is uber reactive), but there do seem to have been a lot of iterations of the grind and I do get the impression that some of them do not get as high regard.


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## Nemo (Jun 26, 2020)

Wakui and Yoshikane both produce knives of varying grinds/ thicknesses and I haven't used the exact knives that you linked. My Yoshi Tsuchime (hammered) SKD (noth white2) is a thicker knife with excellent food release, as is my Wakui Tsuchime. Many of their knives are much thinner, for example the Yoshikane Amekiri/ Nashiji Yoshikane Amekiri White 2 Gyuto 240mm Stainless Clad Nashiji Finish

Have you decided whether you want a thinner or a thicker knife or a middleweight?


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## zizirex (Jun 27, 2020)

All Sanjo makers and all makers are Ex-Yoshikane or Have Apprentice in Yoshikane.
I have all (kinda.. some are 240 version and other types) except the Yoshikane. In terms of performance, hands down Hinoura. In terms of ease of use, Mazaki and Wakui but the Mazaki cladding is a *****, it reacts stupidly fast than others. either one, you will not be disappointed. just the steel choice and finish are different. if you want edge retention, go with blue, if you want scary sharp, go with white. Mazaki has a big cult following here, I like it, but it's a bit to wedgy for me.


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## danemonji (Jun 27, 2020)

ian said:


> They'll all be a joy to sharpen, the Hinoura less so because it's Aogami Super (AS). The weight differences between the rest of them will be noticeable. In particular, the Carbon Knife Co (CKC) Mazaki will feel the most authoritative, I'd imagine. I haven't tried one of that batch yet, but people seem to like them. Had a knife very similar to the Wakui at some point and thought it was great. If you want a knife that'll just blow through produce, though, get the Yoshikane.


Just a coment on the Hinoura AS, its very easy to sharpen( i don't feel the difference to white 2) due to heat treat and will hold the sharpness for a lot longer. I would try Yoshikane for the wider bevel and geometry and refinement over the Mazaki. I find it to be the better knife.


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## kevin (Jun 27, 2020)

Hinoura's AS is pretty easy to sharpen


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## Jville (Jun 27, 2020)

daveb said:


> I might be the only one here that's underwhelmed with Mazaki. Great example of a very average knife..
> 
> Isben was right!


I was very underwhelmed by my older mazaki, but I tried one of the newer ones and it was a fantastic performer, much different, much, much better. But I do think yoshikane are phenomenal. The ys I had was top notch.


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## zizirex (Jun 27, 2020)

kevin said:


> Hinoura's AS is pretty easy to sharpen


I thought you hate Sharpen Blue steel.


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## M1k3 (Jun 27, 2020)

Just get a Yoshikane. Or Gengetsu.


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## Twotimehojo (Jun 27, 2020)

Thank you all for the great responses. I think it is between the Yoshi KT in White 2 and the Hinoura AS SS. I guess i am looking for a middleweight. Thin enough to slice through soft veggies but just a bit sturdy since it is my first real Japanese knife. If the Hinoura sharpens easy and gives a nice edge and clad in SS, that would seem to be the easier knife long term. But I do love the hammered Yoshi KT look and handle! I will make the decision on Monday so any additional comments are welcome.


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## kevin (Jun 27, 2020)

zizirex said:


> I thought you hate Sharpen Blue steel.



Depends on the maker haha


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## Malcolm Johnson (Jun 27, 2020)

I think the Yoshikane... but I like the iron cladding... if it were a iron clad Hinoura it would definitely be a hard choice....


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## RockyBasel (Jun 27, 2020)

soigne_west said:


> My maz was very underwhelming...at first. After hours upon hours of thinning, a new handle, and a semi decently looking petina it still just sits in my drawer... though it’s WAY better than it was.


I tend to agree with you - I just got a new CKC mazaki 240 Gyuto and I loved it on the first day or two - but now, it sits there unused - I use my Toyoma, my Heiji, jiro, kagekiyo, whatever. I actually never reach for the mazaki - I think I am a victim of the mazaki hype on this forum and I think that.’a why I said I love it - but objectively- it’s OK, a $280 knife, nothing more and nothing less. Sure he rode a Harley around japan, and we as Americans glorify that, but it does not mean he makes an outstanding knife. He makes a decent knife. I think I drunk the cool aid like everyone else and bought a mazaki: nice knife, I do enjoy it, decent but nothing more. I am not in awe of it like my Togashi-Tosa Aogami Gyuto. I have stated more than that on this forum, but I started to suspect I was not being objective


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## Twotimehojo (Jun 27, 2020)

Iron clad Hinoura is sold out. Another interesting option is the 240mm Yoshi KT. The height is then 50mm and it has a bit more heft. Height and wt is what I am used too. The length not so much. I have a 210 Shun Classic chef already.


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## soigne_west (Jun 27, 2020)

If i was in your position I would honestly just buy that Kochi 210 on BST


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## jwpark (Jun 28, 2020)

I have both a Hinoura KU and Mazaki. owned a Yoshi about 9 year ago. My rec would be Mazaki, tallest knife, best blade geometry.


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## IsoJ (Jun 29, 2020)

Don't over think it, just get one and start to use it, if you don't like it, it is easy to sell or trade here. Every option you have there are very good value for the money.


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## RockyBasel (Jun 29, 2020)

Best value for 


jwpark said:


> I have both a Hinoura KU and Mazaki. owned a Yoshi about 9 year ago. My rec would be Mazaki, tallest knife, best blade geometry.



And it’s the best value for price - super sharp OOTB and you can get them now, but maybe not in a few months - he is a maker whose knives are getting rarer and rarer

great knife and at below $300, hard to beat this kind of artisan craftsmanship that you get with a Mazaki - here is a 240 mm Gyuto from CKC that I got 2 weeks ago. I just used it yesterday, and it’s fantastic - amazing distal taper and has some heft


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## daveb (Jun 29, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> Best value for
> 
> And it’s the best value for price - super sharp OOTB and you can get them now, but maybe not in a few months - he is a maker whose knives are getting rarer and rarer
> 
> great knife and at below $300, hard to beat this kind of artisan craftsmanship that you get with a Mazaki - here is a 240 mm Gyuto from CKC that I got 2 weeks ago. I just used it yesterday, and it’s fantastic - amazing distal taper and has some heft



Huh???? Rare? He's making a thousand knives a day and he's only 17 yrs old.  

Yoshi FTW


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## RockyBasel (Jun 29, 2020)

daveb said:


> Huh???? Rare? He's making a thousand knives a day and he's only 17 yrs old.
> 
> Yoshi FTW



not rare as in kato - but rarer in the sense there only 2-3 sites that have any new 2020 stock

only CKC, Knives and stones, and K&S 2 new blues are sold out, Knifewear is old stock, and clean cut is old stock too - and the weight on the clean cut knives is less than 200 gems - very unmazaki.

hence the term rare - increasingly harder to find new stock

since he is evolving, the newer stock seems to be better, flatter, and feedback is that its improved. Though some still prefer the bull-nose

but you are right, it’s not rare as in shig etc.


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## M1k3 (Jun 29, 2020)

Yoshihirio carries Mazaki also.


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 29, 2020)

I had 3 put of the 4. Yoshi was the sharpest but low heel height was undesirable to me. 

Hinoura KU and Mazaki Nashiji surface finish looks very similar, i’d call them even. Mazaki spine was too thick, without the Kato grind spine to edge, it wedged in watermelon hard! My Mazaki cladding also had a puke yellow patina, gross looking. My pick among the three would be Shinoura.






Hinora 

owned a Yoshi about 9 year ago.


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## M1k3 (Jun 29, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> I had 3 put of the 4. Yoshi was the sharpest but low heel height was undesirable to me.
> 
> Hinoura KU and Mazaki Nashiji surface finish looks very similar, i’d call them even. Mazaki spine was too thick, without the Kato grind spine to edge, it wedged in watermelon hard! My Mazaki cladding also had a puke yellow patina, gross looking. My pick among the three would be Shinoura.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you'd like Masashi? They've got some Yoshi influence and taller. Can also get them in a profile that doesn't look like a torpedo.


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## panda (Jun 29, 2020)

what's a mizaki?


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## IsoJ (Jun 29, 2020)

panda said:


> what's a mizaki?


Katos father reincarnation


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## soigne_west (Jun 29, 2020)

panda said:


> what's a mizaki?



Kato’s bastard child.


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## M1k3 (Jun 29, 2020)

panda said:


> what's a mizaki?


It's the Romexxx of knives.


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## RockyBasel (Jun 29, 2020)

One more mizaki zinger please...


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## M1k3 (Jun 29, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> One more mizaki zinger please...


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## jwpark (Jun 29, 2020)

Hinoura KU is really light. On my Hinoura, some of the KU has already faded, and its hard to tell the difference between KU & patina.

The Mazaki thickness is only at the spine leaving the handle. If you grab by a pinch grip, the knife feels thin, on par with the Hinoura.

the bevel on Mazaki is taller. As a result, you get less wedging.

The ichi handle on the Hinoura is nicer, but the ho on the Mazaki is not bad. 

last, the Mazaki is a lot taller, making my big hands


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## RockyBasel (Jun 29, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 85518



LMAO - needed it!


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## Twotimehojo (Jun 29, 2020)

When you say light, you mean less than 180 grams? Thats what the Hinoura knives are weighing in currently (in stock)?






jwpark said:


> View attachment 85529
> Hinoura KU is really light. On my Hinoura, some of the KU has already faded, and its hard to tell the difference between KU & patina.
> 
> The Mazaki thickness is only at the spine leaving the handle. If you grab by a pinch grip, the knife feels thin, on par with the Hinoura.
> ...


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## NO ChoP! (Jun 30, 2020)

I just got a tsuchume Wakui stainless clad white #2 240mm from K&S and I can tell you I haven't been that impressed with a knife close to that price point ever! I have knives from every maker you listed. The Wakui has beautifully rounded spine and choil. Terrific finish. Mirrored core steel. Sick grind. Super thin tip and edge. I couldn't recommend any knife higher.


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## jwpark (Jun 30, 2020)

I meant the kurouchi finish on the Hinoura is light

Here are knife weight:
Hitohira Kikuchiyo Kyuzo White #2 Kuro Gyuto 210mm: 145 grams 
Mazaki White#2 Kuro Nashiji Gyuto 210mm: 196 grams

Hinoura is lighter in weight, but not noticeably so. Both knives weight balance point is right at the pinch point so it they both feel light


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## RockyBasel (Jun 30, 2020)

NO ChoP! said:


> I just got a tsuchume Wakui stainless clad white #2 240mm from K&S and I can tell you I haven't been that impressed with a knife close to that price point ever! I have knives from every maker you listed. The Wakui has beautifully rounded spine and choil. Terrific finish. Mirrored core steel. Sick grind. Super thin tip and edge. I couldn't recommend any knife higher.



inhave hread the same re Wakui from other fiorum members

here are some quotes:
”Yeah I havent really tested it yet on anything like potatoes...and its nothing special with cooked proteins either. But it does a fantastic job on all kinds of veggies. Im very happy with the knife. I usually carry multiple gyutos for work anyway, Wakui seems to shine whenever I need real fine cuts/brunoise or fine veg slicing. The edge is thin enough to where Im not going bother using it at all for tougher tasks. I was surprised how great it was for carrots. Some food sticks from time to time, but it doesnt bother me.”

“
Got my wakui and I have to say it's a super knife.! Thin, light, tall just my cup of the &#128516;”

“I gotta say I got my 270 in today and I think it's a silly good knife for the money.”

apprentice of Yoshikane and people really like his knives


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## Vladimir (Jun 30, 2020)

I just looked at wakui gyuto from k & s and it is amazingly similar (almost twin) to my kochi from jki.


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## jlm46 (Jul 1, 2020)

Vladimir said:


> I just looked at wakui gyuto from k & s and it is amazingly similar (almost twin) to my kochi from jki.



Exactly my thoughts too!


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## Runner_up (Jul 1, 2020)

Jville said:


> I was very underwhelmed by my older mazaki, but I tried one of the newer ones and it was a fantastic performer, much different, much, much better.



This has been my experience with Mazaki as well. Picked up a new batch 240 KU gyuto from ckc and it is a very good knife. He is definitely getting better.


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## jlm46 (Jul 1, 2020)

Runner_up said:


> This has been my experience with Mazaki as well. Picked up a new batch 240 KU gyuto from ckc and it is a very good knife. He is definitely getting better.


Glad to hear this as I've got a ku240 from ckc arriving in 10 days


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## Twotimehojo (Jul 2, 2020)

After much deliberation, data collection, analysis and winging it, I went with a Yoshi bunka 165mm nashiji skd from Ckc. Since I have a chef knife I'm happy with, I figured my first knife should be something different. Thank you for all the help. I went with SS since I do want to cut onions with it. And my understanding is that SKD is fairly easy to sharpen. And I have heard mostly good things about Yoshi.


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## Nemo (Jul 2, 2020)

Skd (Skd-12) is a semistainless steel rather than fully stainless. Should be fine with onions (hell, I cut onions with my Mazaki white2, which has a very reactive cladding). The exposed core steel will slowly patina. FWIW, I tend to quickly rinse or wipe the blade after cutting acidic foods such as onion.


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## Ruppertsreef (May 19, 2022)

RockyBasel said:


> not rare as in kato - but rarer in the sense there only 2-3 sites that have any new 2020 stock
> 
> only CKC, Knives and stones, and K&S 2 new blues are sold out, Knifewear is old stock, and clean cut is old stock too - and the weight on the clean cut knives is less than 200 gems - very unmazaki.
> 
> ...


Any idea about these. Can’t tell it new or old and not sure if legit. Looking for one of these but everywhere seems out of stock. Japanese Chef Knife Mazaki Naoki White 2 Black Nashiji Gyuto 180-240mm Japan(IF_6D936C17)★


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## M1k3 (May 19, 2022)

Ruppertsreef said:


> Any idea about these. Can’t tell it new or old and not sure if legit. Looking for one of these but everywhere seems out of stock. Japanese Chef Knife Mazaki Naoki White 2 Black Nashiji Gyuto 180-240mm Japan(IF_6D936C17)★


Ikkyu is a legit site.


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## Loam (May 21, 2022)

I own a Yoshi that I'm really happy with. I owned a Mazaki and I loved it, but I find it very particular. You love it or you hate it.


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## EricEricEric (May 21, 2022)

Yosh!


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## Feiii (May 21, 2022)

What is the new hinoura like?


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