# Gear Patrol



## Chips (Jul 30, 2021)

This thread is unique in that it provides tips and recommendations for those who are about to score some new hardware for their kitchen and looking for the best price. It's an inviting place where users can provide feedback, input, or recommendations for a better alternative for what the OP seeks. Please share links whenever possible. If you have an alternate suggestion that may suit OP's needs better, please share those thoughts and recommendations. 

I'd like to see each OP contiributing to this thread begin by sharing what they're seeking, their preferences and budget, and then be willing to accept input from the hive mind of experienced cooks who dwell here on this forum.
My goal is to have key utensils and tools needed for good cooking highlighted, and links provided for how to obtain them at the best price.I would like it to include all aspects of cookware and knives, and in the case of the knives, what makes them unique to the task or what about them enriches the experience.



I'll start.

I've gone back and forth over the years with wanting various sauce pans (with long handles) ideal for soups/stews, reductions, pastas, etc, but I haven't had a nice long-handled 4 quart sauce pot. I have a run of the mill stockpot with an aluminum disk at the base that I picked up at Costco in college, but now want something more. I've kept an eye out on the market for a high quality induction capable, (but not not the main focus) sauce pot that I can lean on for the bigger recipes, that has long handles and helper handles. I already have 1/3 of my gear built out based on All-Clad, so naturally that was my inclination to begin searching there.

Looking at the high-tier sauce pans from All-Clad I see the D5 line, which satisfies all my needs (but I sorta wish they offered a 5 quart instead of only a 4) and it comes in at around $270 USD. Digging thru reviews it appears the only thing better that is easily sourced is the De Meyere Atlantis line, but it lacks the helper handle on the other side. Those appear to be 7 layers, heat evenly, and are induction capable. But at near $600 or more, I'm looking for other options.

Bringing me back to the All-Clad d5 polished 4 quart sauce pan, I see it regularly for about $270, with shipping or tax, the better part of $300. I'd spent a great deal of time hunting online and found what looked too good to be true, a nice site offering one for $90 that wasn't a second or reject. I bought it and am now 2 weeks in to a fraud claim since the seller wasn't legit at all. Lesson learned.

Next steps… decide this is still what I'm looking for, and I turn my attention locally to Craigslist and eBay. I end up finding a like-new 4 quart All-Clad polished stainless steel D5 sauce pan with lid for $115 in gentle used condition. Snatched it up right away. Hopefully arrives next week.

The seller mentions one slight scuff on the lid, otherwise appearing new. I can't imagine doing much better, shopping-wise. It should last a few lifetimes and pair well with my other All-Clad.


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## tcmx3 (Jul 30, 2021)

Chips said:


> This thread is unique in that it provides tips and recommendations for those who are about to score some new hardware for their kitchen and looking for the best price. It's an inviting place where users can provide feedback, input, or recommendations for a better alternative for what the OP seeks. Please share links whenever possible. If you have an alternate suggestion that may suit OP's needs better, please share those thoughts and recommendations.
> 
> I'd like to see each OP contiributing to this thread begin by sharing what they're seeking, their preferences and budget, and then be willing to accept input from the hive mind of experienced cooks who dwell here on this forum.
> My goal is to have key utensils and tools needed for good cooking highlighted, and links provided for how to obtain them at the best price.I would like it to include all aspects of cookware and knives, and in the case of the knives, what makes them unique to the task or what about them enriches the experience.
> ...



great pan. for what it's worth, Demeyere also makes a 5 layer pan, and I was able to get one on sale at Overstock though it took AGES to show up. 






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my recollection is I paid just about 180

I will say I dont think this is a better pan, but the all-clad 4 quart pan is SO popular actually getting one can be kind of tough.

(also sorry if Im misunderstanding the spirit of the thread)


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## Chips (Aug 4, 2021)

The All-Clad sauce pot arrived. Very happy with the deal, it's in great condition. 

I've got three other kitchen items on my "soon to buy" radar. I want to get a proper sausage stuffer, can't decide between a 5lb, 7 lb, or 11 lb size. Also, I find I don't use my Kitchen Aid food processor much, but I kinda want one with a wider bowl. And lastly, I'm again perusing Craigslist for a meat slicer!

If anyone here does their own charcuterie or sausage making, I'd love to hear input on the pro's/con's of the sausage stuffers mainly.


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## Jovidah (Aug 4, 2021)

If you already have the KitchenAid, isn't there some sausage attachment / accessory for it?

Meat slicer I've considered as well. They're not expensive and given how much cheaper big chunks of ham are it would pay itself back in a few months. Just don't really know where to put the damn thing and in general I just hate big unit ask appliances soaking up a ton of space.


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## Chips (Aug 4, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> If you already have the KitchenAid, isn't there some sausage attachment / accessory for it?
> 
> Meat slicer I've considered as well. They're not expensive and given how much cheaper big chunks of ham are it would pay itself back in a few months. Just don't really know where to put the damn thing and in general I just hate big unit ask appliances soaking up a ton of space.



You're thinking of the stand mixer, not the food processor. But I have the stand mixer too. My meat grinder also has a stuffing attachment, but I'm steering towards a better stand-alone unit. 

My tiny apartment is already crammed full of kitchen gear. 3 metro racks packed with stuff. But I really want these!


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## Michi (Aug 4, 2021)

Chips said:


> If anyone here does their own charcuterie or sausage making, I'd love to hear input on the pro's/con's of the sausage stuffers mainly.


I have a 7 pound (3 l) stuffer. I think that's the minimum sensible size. I sometimes wish I had gone one size up from that, but the stuffers with more capacity are even taller. Unless you really want to make big lots, I think 7 pounds is enough. Keep in mind that these are really big and that you need to store it somewhere. While more than 7 pounds is nice, if you have the storage space, it's no big deal to briefly pause and re-fill the stuffer.

Also keep in mind that there are almost identical stuffers around that are, in fact, not the same. I bought a Hakka stuffer, which differs in some important details, in particular:


Note the difference in the crank shape. The look-alikes usually also come with fewer horns or horns made out of plastic.

It's important to have the entire thing really solid because the amount of pressure for some of the denser sausage mixes is considerable. You really want a decent gear box, for example. The Hakka stuffer I have is built like a tank and I expect that it will outlast me. It also comes with a number of spare seals, cleaning brush, extra churro insert, etc.

You can get a stuffer identical to the Hakka one under several different brand names. (They are made in China and just re-branded by various sellers.) Check the crank shape, number of horns, and accessories to decide whether you are getting the real thing or a cheaper imitation.

One thing that is never made clear in the instructions is how to fit the seal onto the piston. (You need to remove that each time for cleaning.) When re-fitting the seal, you will notice that there is U-channel on the seal. That U-channel must point in the down direction. When the piston descends, the farce fills the channel and expands it a little, so the outside of the U gets pressed against the inside of the cylinder.


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## Michi (Aug 4, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> If you already have the KitchenAid, isn't there some sausage attachment / accessory for it?
> 
> Meat slicer I've considered as well. They're not expensive and given how much cheaper big chunks of ham are it would pay itself back in a few months. Just don't really know where to put the damn thing and in general I just hate big unit ask appliances soaking up a ton of space.


The meat grinder attachment for the KitchenAid is not great. Do yourself a favour and get a separate grinder, or get a Kenwood mixer with a meat grinder attachment. The Kenwood attachment works way better than the KitchenAid one.

Trying to stuff sausages with a meat grinder (whether an attachment or stand-alone) is a pain. It's possible, but you will get really sick of it in short order. If you are planning on making sausages, get a separate sausage stuffer. You won't look back, trust me.


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## Michi (Aug 4, 2021)

Chips said:


> Also, I find I don't use my Kitchen Aid food processor much, but I kinda want one with a wider bowl.


The Kenwood Chef is a good kitchen mixer. I have the 1 kW version. There are also XL versions with a larger bowl and a more powerful motor. I really wanted to buy the Titanium Chef, but it won't fit into my cupboard, so I settled for the smaller version.

When it comes to kitchen mixers, larger is generally better, especially if you are into making sausage. 2.5 kg is the absolute maximum my Kenwood can just barely handle when mixing for protein extraction.

This is the one I would get if I had the room: Chef XL Titanium - KVL8300S | Stand Mixer | Kenwood

Nice large bowl, and a 1.7 kW motor. (It makes a difference when dealing with low-hydration dough.) There are models with built-in scales and also a Cooking Chef. Personally, I think those are a waste of time. The more things an appliance does, the more things can go wrong, and the harder it becomes to use. If I want to weigh something, I have separate kitchen scales that will weigh stuff even without me first putting them into the mixer bowl. If I want to cook, I cook on my stove or in my oven…


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## Kgp (Aug 4, 2021)

I bought one of these several years ago and it works quite well, but you have to have the proper setup. Works on water pressure, using a hose from a washing machine. 





Sausage Stuffers - Elk Mountain Products


Our Sausage Stuffers are the perfect sausage making machines for stuffing homemade sausage links and salami-type sausages.




www.dakotahsausagestuffer.com


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## Michi (Aug 4, 2021)

Kgp said:


> I bought one of these several years ago and it works quite well, but you have to have the proper setup. Works on water pressure, using a hose from a washing machine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm… Forgive me for being skeptical. But I'm really hard pressed to see the advantage of this setup compared to something with a crank, which gives me immediate tactile feedback and allows me to control the flow literally to the millimetre.

I'm sure that it can be used to make sausage. But I'm entirely unsure that it can be used to make sausage easily and well.

Have you tried a more conventional (upright) stuffer with a crank? If so, I'd be keen to hear your comparative impressions!


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## Kgp (Aug 4, 2021)

Yes, I've used both. At the time I bought this, it was about half the price of a good crank model, less than $100. There's a learning curve to it. You need to control the water pressure via small valve on the supply line. Worst part is having a work surface close to a faucet that can connect to the hose. I usually do it in the laundry room on top of the washing machine, which is not ideal. Clean up is very easy and the unit is well made. 

The crank unit I used worked well (belonged to a friend). This is probably a little quicker, but as seldom as I make sausage, that's not a big deal. Sourcing the casings is biggest issue. I prefer the to buy tubed casings, and in order to get a good price on them, I need to buy more than I need or will use before they go bad. I need to find a couple of friends and have sausage making day!

Bottom line, both work well. I like gimmicks and "the better mousetrap', so I thought I'd try the water unit. Not disappointed, can't say it's better, just different.


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## Michi (Aug 4, 2021)

Kgp said:


> Bottom line, both work well. I like gimmicks and "the better mousetrap', so I thought I'd try the water unit. Not disappointed, can't say it's better, just different.


My apologies, I didn't mean to rain on your party. It's just that, quite often, gadgets such as that are a solution in search of a problem.

On a positive note, I admit that your unit is way smaller and lighter than the 11+ kg stuffer I use. As always, it's a trade-off.

One thing that I wish for, even with my cranked stuffer, is a third arm. I need one to turn the crank. I need the other one to control the pressure of the casing against the tube to avoid over- or under-filling the casing. And I need a third one (which I lack) to move the stuffed casing out of the way and coil it up so it doesn't fold over itself and potentially break.

Ideally, you'll have two people when you stuff sausages. That way, there is one arm left over


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## Kgp (Aug 4, 2021)

No apologies necessary, it was a legitimate question. I know what you mean about a third arm! With this unit, if I set the water to a small trickle, I have both hands free to control the pressure and move the filled casing. Once set up properly, it really is as easy as the video they show.


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## Michi (Aug 4, 2021)

Kgp said:


> No apologies necessary, it was a legitimate question. I know what you mean about a third arm! With this unit, if I set the water to a small trickle, I have both hands free to control the pressure and move the filled casing. Once set up properly, it really is as easy as the video they show.


Right, I can see that working. But then, you will have to have a lot of patience? The thing with any device that is driven by a mechanism is the lack of feedback. Too slow, and I get bored. Too fast, and I can't keep up. And no way for me to instantly tell the mechanism to "speed up" or "slow down".

I have an Atlas pasta machine with a motor. It's nice. The motor does all the work, I get to use two hands to feed in the dough sheet, and it all looks good and works well. Until something unexpected happens. And, moreover, I don't get to find out that something unexpected happened until way too late. The result is a dough sheet that gets mangled, and I have to start over.

With a crank, I can instantly feel what's happening because the resistance of the crank tells me a lot about what's going on at the rollers. And I can stop as quickly as my nervous system is able to react. Way quicker than the time it takes to move my hand to press the "off button".

For some things, motors are just unbeatable. Preparing low-hydration dough for example. If I had to knead the dough for all my breads by hand, I would have stopped making bread after the very first one. Same thing with meat grinders. Give me a motorised meat grinder any day. Hand-cranked meat grinder? Forget it. I'm not interested.

For things that require some degree of finesse, such as pasta dough, or a sausage stuffer, I'll take the manual approach any day. I can feel what's happening that way.

And, yes, I've seen people using hydraulic or motorised sausage stuffers. These people can effortlessly make perfect sausage for tens of meters at a time. But "these people" are professional butchers who make sausage for hours every day, as opposed to me making sausage once a month…


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## btbyrd (Aug 4, 2021)

I mentioned this over in the high end cookware thread, but if you're looking for good deals on All Clad, check out Capital Cookware on eBay and Amazon. They're an authorized retailer who sells a lot of open box and factory seconds at great prices. You can also sign up for All Clad's official factory seconds sale at this website.


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## Kgp (Aug 4, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> I mentioned this over in the high end cookware thread, but if you're looking for good deals on All Clad, check out Capital Cookware on eBay and Amazon. They're an authorized retailer who sells a lot of open box and factory seconds at great prices. You can also sign up for All Clad's official factory seconds sale at this website.


I’ve also bought sevreal pieces from tjmax, home goods, and marshal’s.


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## btbyrd (Aug 4, 2021)

+1 on that. I got an 8 quart copper core stock pot for $225 at Home Goods. They're $500+ at official retail outlets.


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## Kgp (Aug 5, 2021)

btbyrd said:


> +1 on that. I got an 8 quart copper core stock pot for $225 at Home Goods. They're $500+ at official retail outlets.


I found the same one for $90, handle was slightly bent and no lid. I look every time I go there. Great gifts for family members even if I don't need it.


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## sumis (Aug 5, 2021)

Michi said:


> This is the one I would get if I had the room: Chef XL Titanium - KVL8300S | Stand Mixer | Kenwood
> 
> Nice large bowl, and a 1.7 kW motor. (It makes a difference when dealing with low-hydration dough.) There are models with built-in scales and also a Cooking Chef. Personally, I think those are a waste of time. The more things an appliance does, the more things can go wrong, and the harder it becomes to use. If I want to weigh something, I have separate kitchen scales that will weigh stuff even without me first putting them into the mixer bowl. If I want to cook, I cook on my stove or in my oven…



This is what I have. Tried many of the other options and this does it for me.

And I agree with the Michi's sentiment: bigger = better + less = more.

Only drawback is that it is obviously not the best choice if making small batches of stuff, or whipping like small amounts of cream, stuff like that. But that's what your hands, arms and other (cough) necessary smaller appliances are for 

I use the meat grinder from time to time and, while not being an alternative to a larger heavy duty stand alone unit, it sure does the trick.

.


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## Chips (Aug 8, 2021)

I pulled the trigger on a 11lb Hakka. They had one on Amazon in a damaged box for $60 less than buying it brand new. My only concern about the Hakka was the comments in the reviews about the aluminum gears not being very robust or reliable. But searching for reviews elsewhere showed it at the top of the rest.


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## Bear (Aug 8, 2021)

Chips said:


> I pulled the trigger on a 11lb Hakka. They had one on Amazon in a damaged box for $60 less than buying it brand new. My only concern about the Hakka was the comments in the reviews about the aluminum gears not being very robust or reliable. But searching for reviews elsewhere showed it at the top of the rest.


If you have the room I don't think you could go wrong with that one, your going to need some replacement gaskets for it eventually, I'm having kind of a hard time finding the exact ones for my 3L unit. I used my Kitchen-Aid as a grinder for years I finally replaced it with a LEM #12, picked up on Ebay, what a difference.

PS. I have a Dakota stuffer as mentioned above that I would give to someone, just cover my shipping charges, US only. It was just too much of a hassle.


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## Chips (Aug 9, 2021)

Thank you @Michi for the heads up! I was leaning towards one of those clones, but a different label. I also ordered some hog skins and a few pounds of high temp cheddar cheese mini-cubes for some inaugural jalepeno-cheddar sausage, then likely some Hungarian Kolbasz sausages to follow.


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## Michi (Aug 9, 2021)

Chips said:


> Thank you @Michi for the heads up! I was leaning towards one of those clones, but a different label. I also ordered some hog skins and a few pounds of high temp cheddar cheese mini-cubes for some inaugural jalepeno-cheddar sausage, then likely some Hungarian Kolbasz sausages to follow.


I look forward to your progress reports, with photos!


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## Chips (Nov 4, 2021)

Best bang for the buck petty knife?

There's new old stock again at Bernal Cutlery. I bought one about 5 months ago at a paltry $36 and love it. These are Masakane carbon steel 150mm petty knives that were made in the early 1990's. They take an edge extremely quickly and easily and I thoroughly enjoy using mine. I modified mine a tad bit, rounding out the harder edges and making a nice rounded choil for more forward hand-holding. Bernal Cutlery just posted again on their social media their new allotment of NOS units at a very good price.









Masakane 150mm Petty SK Carbon Steel New Old Stock Pakka Handle


New old stock SK carbon steel petty from Masakane with composite Pakka wood handle. Ground 80/20 right hand finished. Contact us for a different finish. Thin light springy hand ground blades sharpen super easily and cut very well. Wood handles have exposed tang along the spine of tang and are...




bernalcutlery.com


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## rickbern (Nov 9, 2021)

@Chips Tom, good call on the petty!

you should consider getting a clay pot. I use mine for beans, soups, bolognese, many stews. Really opens you up to a new pace of cooking.

the four quart is a useful size






Black Clay, La Chamba Rounded Soup Pot - Small


Shop at Ancient Cookware for a full line of cookware from Colombia, featuring Black Clay, La Chamba Cookware, as well as other unique Clay items from deep inside the Amazon.




ancientcookware.com


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## Chips (Nov 9, 2021)

rickbern said:


> @Chips Tom, good call on the petty!
> 
> you should consider getting a clay pot. I use mine for beans, soups, bolognese, many stews. Really opens you up to a new pace of cooking.
> 
> ...



Good minds think alike! I've had several La Chamber pots for many years!


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## rickbern (Nov 10, 2021)

Chips said:


> Good minds think alike! I've had several La Chamber pots for many years!


If I was in the market for stainless 4 qt saucepan this would be my pick. I have the lower 2.5 liter version, gotta be my favorite stainless pan 









original-profi collection High Sauce Pan 7.9in 4.1qt with Metal Lid | Fissler Shop


original-profi collection High Sauce Pan 7.9in 3.9qt with Metal Lid - now available in the official fissler webshop!



www.fissler.com


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