# Best diamond plate for my needs?



## BrockSamson (Feb 26, 2017)

I'm just beginning my sharpening journey and was planning on starting with a Cerax 1k (I think the old version) and Rika 5k combo to sharpen my 19C27 and blue #2 knives. I'm definitely open to feedback on that selection but whatever I get I know I'll need something to flatten them.


$15 - Sandpaper or drywall screen on glass, granite, or something else flat
$30 - Sk11 150/600
$35 - Sk11 400/1000
$53 - iWood 150
$75 - iWood 150/800
$80 - 150 grit "Diamond Flattening Plate"
$90 - Atoma 140
[*}$? - Others? (not really l feeling DMT though, for some reason)
I only plan to use the diamond plate for flattening or preparing stones and will never touch it with a knife. I like the idea of the iWood 150/800 because my inexperienced beginners brain is thinking that the 150 side would be suitable for flattening any stones, even if I got a lower grit ~320 for repairs, while the 800 grit side would possibly help smooth or prepare the surface of higher grit stones like the 5k after I've flattened them with the 150 side. The sk11 isn't too different though, and with approximately $45 of savings I could always buy a 1000-1500 grit diamond foil or finger plate to finish/prepare the surface high grit stones (if this even matters) and still have almost enough left over for a Tojiro DP paring or bread knife, a knife for sharpening practice, an additional stone or sharpening accessory, or a wooden magnetic knife holder for the wall. I know it's cheaper for a reason though, so I'm caught between wanting to save money on something that won't see excessive use (I will only have 2-4 knives, used relatively infrequently) and wanting to get something good so that it lasts and I don't have to spend even more money to replace it. Any thoughts or recommendations on this?


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## daveb (Feb 26, 2017)

Welcome to the forum Brock.

My first flattener was a DMT XXC - I already had it and it did well until I upgraded to a JKI flattener. 

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...accessories/products/diamond-flattening-plate

The Atoma is also well regarded. 

I've not used a Cerax but have had the 5K Rika. For me the Rika was at it's best for German stainless.

For your med grit the Gesshin 2K is a very good stone on any knife I used it on. Gesshin 6K is also very nice for finishing. 

JNS also has some nice offerings, especially in splash and go stones.


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## foody518 (Feb 26, 2017)

You don't need more than the iWood 150 grit then use extra budget for other items. You can smooth your Rika with your Cerax 1k and then wash off the grit.


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## Ruso (Feb 26, 2017)

I tried multiple method for flattening, and Atoma 140 is the best hands down. Well worth the price from my experience.


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## jklip13 (Feb 26, 2017)

I would spend the extra 10 and get the Atoma. The way the diamond clusters are structured on the plate allows it to hold onto a lot of slurry. I find they stick to stones a lot less than other plates and are also very handy when you are trying to generate slurry


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## BrockSamson (Feb 26, 2017)

Thanks for the fast replies!

daveb, thanks for the welcome. The $80 plate in my list is the JKI you mentioned just with shipping added. I wasn't 100% sure on the rules so I listed it more generically. I've also considered a Chosera 800/3k combo and looked at the Gesshin since they seem highly regarded. I've avoided JNS as best I can, not because of the store or anything, but because I know if I spend too much time there browsing I will enter a black hole of spending haha.

I guess my dilemma is not really the cost but how do I justify it. My wife doesn't "get it" about these knives yet so I've been limited to the $60-90 range. It feels odd to spend $90 on a diamond plate when that is as much or more than I've spent on any of my (planned) stones or knives. Is the Atoma 140 really that much better than the $53 iWood 150 and would that in turn really be that much better than the $30 SK? I can do it if it's really worthwhile but what does the extra $40-60 get me or what do I lose by not spending it?


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## Jovidah (Feb 26, 2017)

Where do you live / order from? For example the Atoma can be had for cheaper... even with shipping factored in. Same goes for the iWood. Depends on whether you're paying customs though.


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## fujiyama (Feb 26, 2017)

Welcome! 

In your situation, I would go with the SK11 150/600 and a Tojiro bread knife. 

Also, a knock off Atoma 140 can be had for $30. Good option, but I like to have a finer grit to smoothen the whetstone. I use Atoma 140/600.


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## BrockSamson (Feb 26, 2017)

I'm in the Chicago USA area but have previously ordered knives from japan-blades and was planning to use toolsfromjapan for the Cerax/Rika combo. I'm familiar with most of the common sites though so there are other options if appropriate. On that subject I should probably note that all the prices I listed above included shipping so that would be my actual cost rather than the listed prices.


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## Krassi (Feb 26, 2017)

One thing about cheap plates and even the DMT.. They are made of Metal that will rust.. I totally hate my DMT for this.. if i dondt dry it like a maniac it will get instant rust all around.. Atoma is made of Aluminium and stainless.. This comfort is worth any money!


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## Nemo (Feb 26, 2017)

Yeah, never had any problem with rust on my Atoma. I really like the handle for a flattening plate too.


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## daveb (Feb 26, 2017)

I have a full set of DMT and have never had a rust problem. I rinse them off and let them air dry. Now I've not used them in a few years, they were part of what I kept hunting knives sharp with, but did not require any extra care.


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## Jovidah (Feb 26, 2017)

Well so much for that.... toolsfromjapan was exactly what I would recommend to look at. Didn't know you had included the shipping, so that makes sense. Sometimes www.japan-tool.com and www.metalmaster-ww.com can have nice prices as well, though I expect the differences to be marginal. There's actually one retailer in Europe with pretty decent prices as well but that's off the table for you.

The main 'issue' usually plagueing the cheaper diamond plates is that they're either less flat than the quality stuff, and / or the bonding of the diamonds is crappier, resulting in them dying sooner. Just a short look around renders at least some unsatisfied buyer reviews of SK11 stuff, but your mileage might vary; you might just win the inconsistent-product-lottery.

Regarding the iWood... well... I have a feeling they might actually be pretty good. If you already plan to order from toolsfromjapan, you could also just e-mail the owner and ask him about the iWood vs Atoma. The iWood combo-plate looks like a killer deal.


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## BrockSamson (Mar 2, 2017)

I apologize for not replying sooner it's been a busy week. I do have some additional information I wanted to share though.

I decided to try the S&K 150/600 plate. If it works it will save me a lot of money but at the same time it's cheap enough where I won't lose a lot if I don't like it. I also had a lot of trouble finding solid first-hand information on this item so whether it's good or bad I'd be able to pass on my experience and hopefully help out future readers.

On that note it was delivered today and my initial impression is positive. The 600 side is as flat as I can measure with my eyes, quartz counter, or anything else in my house. The 150 side didn't seem quite as flat, it was able to rock between two corners by the thickness of a thin sheet of paper, but then I noticed that a few millimeters from one of the other corners there is a tiny particle on the surface that ever-so-slightly raises it off the counter. I can't get a good picture because of the size and shininess but I can see it with my eyes at the right angle. After inspecting it carefully I'm fairly certain that the 150 side will also be flat once that little particle is removed. I'm fairly confident that it will come off when I bevel my stones but if not I'm quite certain that I can remove it myself without damaging the surface. So it's not quite perfect (yet) but is pretty close.

Having said that, this is a sample size of 1. I don't have a proper straight edge nor do I have experience with other plates to make a comparison. I also have no idea how much it sticks or how durable it will be. I will try to update for some of these things later on when I can but at least for now this is looking like a good plate and a great deal.


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## fatboylim (Mar 3, 2017)

Jovidah said:


> Well so much for that.... toolsfromjapan was exactly what I would recommend to look at. Didn't know you had included the shipping, so that makes sense. Sometimes www.japan-tool.com and www.metalmaster-ww.com can have nice prices as well, though I expect the differences to be marginal. There's actually one retailer in Europe with pretty decent prices as well but that's off the table for you.



Can you provide the link to the EU retailer. I need a new one!


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## Jovidah (Mar 3, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Can you provide the link to the EU retailer. I need a new one!



The cheapest one for Atoma in Europe is Dieter Schmid from feine werkzeuge... the English site can be reached at www.fine-tools.com
You'll be hard-pressed to get them cheaper even from Japan, if you factor in the customs costs. They also offer the replacement plates, which would bring the price down even more.

Haven't seen iWood anywhere else in Europe so toolsfromjapan is the place to go for those. 

The cheapo plates can be found left and right, but when looking around for reviews you'll find many people complaining about flatness. So personally I'd rather stick to either Atoma or iWood. If you're feeling adventurous, www.japansemessen.nl offers some. KATO recently started offering the EZE-LAP plates. What I read on the latter ones wasn't very encouraging though.


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## fatboylim (Mar 4, 2017)

Jovidah said:


> The cheapest one for Atoma in Europe is Dieter Schmid from feine werkzeuge... the English site can be reached at www.fine-tools.com
> 
> KATO recently started offering the EZE-LAP plates. What I read on the latter ones wasn't very encouraging though.



Awesome link and I forgot about these guys in Germany. 

Say, where does Kato sell the EZE-LAP?


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## Jovidah (Mar 5, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> Awesome link and I forgot about these guys in Germany.
> 
> Say, where does Kato sell the EZE-LAP?



It's just mixed among the other sharpening stuff they have... if you look by brand it shouldn't be an issue to find it (www.knivesandtools.co.uk). But after I googled around a bit it turned out their standards for flatness are pretty low, rendering it a bit of a gamble for a flattening stone.


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## brooksie967 (Mar 5, 2017)

Just don't use your atoma for sharpening........... I learned that the hard way and blew through a 400 grit in a matter of months. Now there's a giant circle in the middle of the thing with no diamonds left on it.


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## Sharp-Hamono (Mar 8, 2017)

I don't know for sure because I only have the Atoma 400, but there is a Youtuber, Burrfection, who thinks that using a 140 grit diamond plate as a flattener scratches up the tops of your stones a little too much, and if you flatten water stones with such a low grit diamond stone, you're going to need to take a moment to dress the stone surface against a higher grit stone to smooth it out fully before using it anyway. Again, this is second hand information and I'm not really a pro sharpener, but I got the Atoma 400 and it really doesn't take that long to get a stone surface perfectly flat. Just passing it on for your consideration.


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## Ruso (Mar 8, 2017)

Sharp-Hamono said:


> I don't know for sure because I only have the Atoma 400, but there is a Youtuber, Burrfection, who thinks that using a 140 grit diamond plate as a flattener scratches up the tops of your stones a little too much, and if you flatten water stones with such a low grit diamond stone, you're going to need to take a moment to dress the stone surface against a higher grit stone to smooth it out fully before using it anyway. Again, this is second hand information and I'm not really a pro sharpener, but I got the Atoma 400 and it really doesn't take that long to get a stone surface perfectly flat. Just passing it on for your consideration.



Jon mentioned that coarser scratches on top of the stone speed up the process, finer scratches polish better.


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## Jovidah (Mar 10, 2017)

Sharp-Hamono said:


> I don't know for sure because I only have the Atoma 400, but there is a Youtuber, Burrfection, who thinks that using a 140 grit diamond plate as a flattener scratches up the tops of your stones a little too much, and if you flatten water stones with such a low grit diamond stone, you're going to need to take a moment to dress the stone surface against a higher grit stone to smooth it out fully before using it anyway. Again, this is second hand information and I'm not really a pro sharpener, but I got the Atoma 400 and it really doesn't take that long to get a stone surface perfectly flat. Just passing it on for your consideration.


I'd take most of what he says with a grain of salt. He's the kind of guy who just watched all the other movies on youtube, then bought all the stones and decided to make a series. It's mostly repackaged hearsay with a tiny little bit of personal experience sprinkled in. A camera does not an expert make...
He may be right in this case (don't know) but going through some of his stuff I've also found him to be 'missing' some basic knowledge.


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## Sharp-Hamono (Mar 10, 2017)

Jovidah said:


> I'd take most of what he says with a grain of salt. He's the kind of guy who just watched all the other movies on youtube, then bought all the stones and decided to make a series. It's mostly repackaged hearsay with a tiny little bit of personal experience sprinkled in. A camera does not an expert make...
> He may be right in this case (don't know) but going through some of his stuff I've also found him to be 'missing' some basic knowledge.



To each their own: I don't really care how much his video camera costs, what forums he reads or what brand of hair gel he uses, but rather, I see the relevant questions being, is what he said true and why/why not? Or maybe it doesn't really matter what grit the flattening plate is.


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## Jovidah (Mar 10, 2017)

Well that's exactly the problem... he has a fancy camera and everything looks good...but too often I've heard him repeat hearsay, falsehoods or simply leave out important parts. This makes it very hard to judge which parts of what he says are good advice and which parts aren't. The quality of the footage and the camera mask the fact that he's not an expert.
Whether or not he's actually right or wrong in this case I don't know - still saving up for my own diamond plate myself. As Ruso said, I think Jon said a thing or two about it at some point. Might want to look that up.


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## brooksie967 (Mar 10, 2017)

I can tell you one thing: Dressing a stone properly is hugely important when doing things like honing straight razors. Leaving a 140 atoma surface on a stone then running a razor across it does very different things than running it across the same stone with a surface 'conditioned' to 600 or 1200 grit. 

On top of that, this is exactly how arkansas stones and novaculite work. Dressing the stone is hugely important to the fineness of Arks and they act completely differently when dressed with 140 grit or 1200 grit. 

This is LESS important when dealing with knives on soft stones that will be run over the surface many many times which basically conditions the surface as you go.


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## malexthekid (Mar 10, 2017)

Jovidah said:


> Whether or not he's actually right or wrong in this case I don't know - still saving up for my own diamond plate myself. As Ruso said, I think Jon said a thing or two about it at some point. Might want to look that up.



Check out jon's flattening stones video i think it is. He explains why it is a bit of a misnomer.


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## Lars (Mar 10, 2017)

For my lower grit stones I just enjoy the added speed. For higher grit stones I have a tiny 1200 grit diamond plate I use to smooth the surface after the Atoma 140.

Lars


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## Sharp-Hamono (Mar 11, 2017)

brooksie967 said:


> I can tell you one thing: Dressing a stone properly is hugely important when doing things like honing straight razors. Leaving a 140 atoma surface on a stone then running a razor across it does very different things than running it across the same stone with a surface 'conditioned' to 600 or 1200 grit.
> 
> On top of that, this is exactly how arkansas stones and novaculite work. Dressing the stone is hugely important to the fineness of Arks and they act completely differently when dressed with 140 grit or 1200 grit.
> 
> This is LESS important when dealing with knives on soft stones that will be run over the surface many many times which basically conditions the surface as you go.



Interesting. What are some of the undesirable things that happen to a straight razor when sharpening it on a roughly flattened stone? It sounds like it would generally have a rougher scratch pattern in the steel than the grit whetstone would intend.


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