# Annoying problem. Is this an overgrind?



## idemhj (Jan 5, 2015)

As you can probably see from the (real bad) picture below I have an annoying problem with my otherwise very well liked gyuto, namely a definite frown  or even hole  in the edge. Ive tried to correct this several times by breadknifing, but even though the frown seems to be gone, it pops back up as soon as I thin and resharpen. I know its kind of hard for you to answer, but anyway Is this most likely a result of my poor technique, or is it rather an overgrind which I ultimately can do nothing about?

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated Its driving me nuts :beatinghead:


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## chinacats (Jan 5, 2015)

Sounds more like a sharpening issue to me. Looks like it's been used on a steel. If it's an overgrind, the hole would likely get bigger when you breadknife as opposed to going away and coming back...or I could be mistaken


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## idemhj (Jan 5, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Sounds more like a sharpening issue to me. Looks like it's been used on a steel.



No steel, never. Would not even dream of it... But it still might be a sharpening issue (and for that very reason the knife shall remain nameless. I don't want to give a bad rep to a brand, if it is my own fault...) The hole is, I think, getting smaller and smaller, so perhaps I'll get rid of it in time...


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## zitangy (Jan 5, 2015)

idemhj said:


> As you can probably see from the (real bad) picture below I have an annoying problem with my otherwise very well liked gyuto, namely a definite frown  or even hole  in the edge. Ive tried to correct this several times by breadknifing, but even though the frown seems to be gone, it pops back up as soon as I thin and resharpen. I know its kind of hard for you to answer, but anyway Is this most likely a result of my poor technique, or is it rather an overgrind which I ultimately can do nothing about?
> 
> Any suggestions would be highly appreciated Its driving me nuts :beatinghead:
> 
> ...


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## XooMG (Jan 5, 2015)

Hold the knife up to a light and sight lengthwise down the side of the knife to see if the reflection of the light dips/wobbles around the spot. That'll tell you much more about the grind than the frown on the board.

If it's not significant, then you can compensate by selective sharpening.


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## Lizzardborn (Jan 5, 2015)

I had something similar happen to one of my knives. There were two spots that I didn't sharpened properly - heel and beginning of the belly. And had some recurve between them.


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## chinacats (Jan 5, 2015)

Meant to add that breadknifing shouldn't be used except under extreme conditions as it removes steel so rapidly. Zitangy's advice for how to fix is very good.


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## Benuser (Jan 5, 2015)

A neglected heel, indeed, no overgrind, I would say. Heel area may be a bit thicker and need some special attention while sharpening. For correcting it I would first look at the heel, and only later see if further action is needed.


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## Sabaki (Jan 5, 2015)

Benuser said:


> A neglected heel, indeed, no overgrind, I would say. Heel area may be a bit thicker and need some special attention while sharpening. For correcting it I would first look at the heel, and only later see if further action is needed.



lus1:


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## psfred (Jan 5, 2015)

By the reflection of the cutting board on the knife, it's a substantial but shallow overgrind, at least on the side facing the camera. Notice that the reflection is "bent up" in a curve above the "hole'>

Could also be a bent knife though -- sight down the spine and edge, or hold a true straightedge along the spine. Bend will show up on either side a a space on the shallow one and a gap and both ends on the deep side.

The reflection on the other side will be straighter if it's an over grind, but dip instead of bulge if it's bent.

Getting a clean edge on a bent knife is an exercise in deep frustration!

Peter


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## XooMG (Jan 5, 2015)

Unless you diagnose with measurements or sighting down the side as I described earlier, it's all just conjecture. I am inclined to agree that making sure the heel gets extra attention is the primary fix, but really just take a few seconds to find out if it's you or the knife...it's really not hard to tell.


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## panda (Jan 5, 2015)

What the heck is breadknifing?


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## Benuser (Jan 5, 2015)

See post nr 4

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/20755-how-do-I-fix-this-uneven-blade


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## chinacats (Jan 5, 2015)

panda said:


> What the heck is breadknifing?



90 degrees to the stone--rude and fast.


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## Chuckles (Jan 5, 2015)

I had almost the same reaction as psfred although i couldn't have written it as well. 

The look of the blade above the 'hole' is troubling. It could just as easily be a bent or twisted blade as an over grind. I have had issues like this before on vintage knives but not on a new expensive knife. I hope it works out for you. The problem is that if you keep removing heel height to compensate for an unrelated issue it will quickly become a very odd looking and much less practical tool in the kitchen. Any chance we could see the other blade face?


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## chinacats (Jan 6, 2015)

You guys are so much more observant than I am it pisses me off!

Now that it has been pointed out, maybe a pic where the reflection would be clear--in other words maybe something other than a multi-color cutting board? Also, as Chuckles suggested it may help to see both sides of the knife in clear pics--if you're stressed about the maker just cover the kanji. I'm sure there will be enough people here that recognize it either way, but I likely won't be one of them.

Cheers


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## idemhj (Jan 6, 2015)

Been away at work all day, but here are two more pictures of my knife. (Still taken with my iPad so they are of dubious quality, but hopefully they are of some help)

The blade is not bent.

What I probably should have pointed out in my first post  sorry about that  is that the wavy line on the knife (the top picture) is not a reflection, but the unpolished scratch pattern of the last thinning.

I think it does suggest a shallow over grind, but Im no expert. If that is the case I think Ill be able to thin it down over time, but it is going to take quite a while.


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## XooMG (Jan 6, 2015)

Are you intentionally not checking to see if it's overground? The pics don't tell much of anything really.


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## idemhj (Jan 6, 2015)

XooMG said:


> Are you intentionally not checking to see if it's overground? The pics don't tell much of anything really.



No, no. Sorry about that. The thing is that with the scratches from the thinning it is very hard (at least for me) to read the reflections. I am simply not sure...


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## psfred (Jan 6, 2015)

Use a straight edge, you are never going to tell by looking at scratches.

An overgrind will leave a hollow where the blade has been ground too far, and the bevel on the two sides will be unequal where one side is ground away at the overgrind. the bevels will be nearly equal elsewhere, so if you have a tiny or missing bevel where you think there is an overgrind but one equal along the length on the other side, it's an overgrind.

A bent blade (and it can be twisted so it's not bent at the spine but is at the edge) will show up with a wider bevel on the "fat" side and a smaller or missing one on the hollow side.

A reflection, which you will have even on an unpolished knife, will tell you as well. Won't be anywhere near as clear as on a polished blade, but that blade is shiny enough to show an overgrind.

If it is bent or bowed along the edge but not the spine, or has a serious overgrind, it's going to be very difficult to get a smooth edge. It can be done, but then you are going to have a knife that doesn't cut straight!

Peter


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## JBroida (Jan 6, 2015)

sorry for the off topic post, but that red box really has me even more curious about the brand now... am i alone in this?


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## CoqaVin (Jan 6, 2015)

no I am with you Jon, I NEED TO KNOW NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL


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## schanop (Jan 6, 2015)

Is it Moritaka?


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## mhlee (Jan 7, 2015)

I just want to confirm one thing with the OP - You were using stones to thin, not a grinder, right?


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## idemhj (Jan 7, 2015)

mhlee said:


> I just want to confirm one thing with the OP - You were using stones to thin, not a grinder, right?



No, no grinder, just stones - it looks way more dramatic in the picture than in real life. Anyway, i've looked at the knife again, and I'm now pretty sure that the problem is me... Somehow I am doing something wrong... I am not sure what, but eventually I'll figuren it out, I hope.


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## Chuckles (Jan 7, 2015)

Just spend double the time on the heel than you have been and make sure your pressure applying fingers get all the way to the heel. If it isn't a grind issue this should fix it in a few sharpenings.


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