# all things being equal, Arkansas Stone Vs Waterstones?



## boomchakabowwow

i find more videos with folks sharpening with Waterstones. 

and i do realize removing steel is removing steel. but why do Waterstones seem to have the bigger following?

are they more forgiving?

any definitive listing of pro/cons of each?

i kinda trust the sharpeners here the most.

THANKS!! (at first glance A-stones appear less expensive)


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## chinacats

Waterstones=fast!
Oilstones=extremely slow, longer time sharpening=more time to make mistakes

While all waterstones feel a bit different, I prefer the feel over Ark's.

I used to use oilstones with h2o but if used with oil they are nasty. They are often a bit smaller (more narrow) than standard waterstones as well. I'd never consider going back.

As with anything, ymmv but I don't know anyone that has tried waterstones that is still using oilstones on knives or tools. Some people do seem to like to use them on straight razors, but even there Japanese or Belgiums seem to be more popular.


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## rick alen

Arks are slow, slow, slow, and not well suited for harder steels which would also sustain damage from any imperfections along the edge of the stone. I have heard it said they leave a more durable edge, there may be some truth to that. But if you give a slight round to an edge they make a super-fine replacement for a ceramic hone. And I feel they are unsurpassed for micro-bevelling [so long as the stone has good edges to work off of].

Rick


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## Adrian

I used to use oilstones on plane blades and flat chisels. When I discovered waterstones and learnt how to use them, the oilstones were put away and have not been used since. Faster by far, different feel, less messy.


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## rick alen

Arks are actually best used dry. For gummy-soft steels water can be used but is not necessary for finishing.

Rick


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## Steampunk

I first learned how to sharpen on Arkansas stones, and have since expanded out into synthetic waterstones (Shaptons), diamond plates, and Belgian natural stones. All of their pluses and minuses, and I'm glad that I have a selection to chose from for various applications. 

Arkansas stones are made from Novoculite (Quartz), which is an interesting material. As a stone, it is extremely hard (Harder than anything this side of a nickle-bonded diamond plate.) and dense, but as an abrasive it is actually relatively soft (7 on the Mohs scale.). As such, I find these stones to be of limited usefulness on more heavily alloyed steels, or the harder Japanese steels favored by most on this forum. Arkansas stones are best suited to simpler steels (Like 10xx-series carbons preferably, or 440-series stainless with slightly greater difficulty.), at relatively low hardness levels (<60 HRC for carbon, and <57 HRC for stainless in my experience.). Natural stones vary, and are hard to assign a grit level to, but compared with synthetics my Soft Ark from Dan's is in the 1-2K grit range, my Dan's White-Hard in the 3-5K range depending upon pressure, and my vintage Norton Translucent can refine an edge beyond the 8K level; I'm guessing to the 10-12K level depending upon how it is lapped. 

Arkansas stones are pretty much the slowest sharpening media around, but with time, practice, and a compatible steel, can deliver one of the best edges I have seen. My experience with Ark edges - whether it be soft, white-hard, true-hard, translucent, or surgical black - is that they are very crisp (I presume due to low or non-existent slurry dulling.), sharper than their 'grit' level would otherwise suggest, and have a good combination of bite and smoothness on food. My translucent produces the best shaving edge of any of my stones. Arkansas stones are very good for experimentation, also; different lubricants, and lapping techniques can completely change the cutting/polishing performance of the stone. The true-hard, translucent, and surgical black grades are particularly interesting to play with due to their density... By burnishing the surface of the stone until it takes on a polish, you can increase the fineness of the stone, giving a very good polish on the bevel. At the same time, you can slurry the stone with a piece of sandpaper (I wouldn't recommend diamond plates for this; Arks wear them down in no time.) or add some other type of abrasive slurry (Diamond or CBN emulsion, or a nagura from another type of natural stone like a J-Nat or a Coticule). and massively increase the cutting power. Using these techniques, I have actually managed to sharpen VG-10 (Spyderco) at about 58-59 HRC from about the 1K level to final finish with my translucent arkansas, but it's not something I've made a habit of....With the very hard arks, you also have more options with lubricant, as they are essentially non-porous; you can very easily use plain water on a true-hard or translucent, which I find increases the cutting power of the stone slightly. You can also use them dry, but this is not my preferred method for various reasons. On the soft and white-hard grades, I would use oil however, as they are surprisingly porous stones; my personal choice being jojoba. 

The one thing that I would pay attention to with Arkansas stones is technique; they are not easy stones to master. They can generate some pretty crazy burrs (Particularly on the soft arks, with stainless steels.), but removing this burr using edge trailing passes (As is the norm with most water stones) is extremely difficult if not impossible in some cases. The best method (Particularly with soft stainless) is to use edge leading passes, and count your passes as you go, keeping the number of sharpening passes to a minimum on each side of the bevel. This keeps the burr formation from ever getting out of hand... For example: Five passes on the right side, five passes on the left, four passes on the right side, four passes on the left, three passes on the right, etc until you finish down to your final edge. On softer carbon steels, this is less of an issue, but still decent practice if you want shaving-levels of sharpness. 

Another note: due to the extreme density of Arks, they are very slow to dish, but will do so and do periodically need to be flattened. The best way to do this is with silicon-carbide sandpaper on glass or granite, as they trash diamond plates pretty quickly, and surprisingly SiC also cuts the fastest. For burnishing the surface of the stone for a finer polish, I would use another Arkansas stone of the same type.

Due to the extreme slowness (A full Ark progression to a shaving sharp edge can take hours.), and adoption of more Japanese knives, I rarely use my arks these days and typically don't recommend them to someone just starting out in sharpening. Particularly at the bevel setting stage, they can be so slow and frustrating that it's worth it to simply use synthetics or diamond in the sub-2000 grit range to start the sharpening process. However, I do pull out my vintage Norton Translucent for finishing my Sabatier Nogent carbon parer. I start with a DMT Dia-Sharp Fine/Extra Fine to establish a bevel, move onto my Belgian Blue Whetstone with slurry to erase the diamond scratch pattern, then the coarse-lapped (P1000) side of Trans Ark, then the polished side, and finally onto a hanging veg-tanned leather barber's strop. The resulting edge can shave my beard with only a little bit of tugging. 

For my Japanese knives, and even my remaining European stainless knives, I use my Shaptons and my Belgian Blue these days. They produce fantastic edges on more types of steel in a fraction of the time, and are much easier to work with. The feedback is also more enjoyable as well, particularly on harder steels. Soft arks are very scratchy, and a well burnished Translucent is like sharpening on a piece of ice; neither are very tactile. In regards to mess, I would place them about even. With Arks, you have oil that you need to wash off the blade and your hands, but with waterstones (Even splash & go) you tend to end up with a bigger puddle of water that you need to mop up so horses for courses... 

Hopefully this helps. If you want to learn more about Arkansas and other natural stones, I would recommend searching the straight-razor forums like Badger & Blade or Straight Razor place, as they are having a bit of a resurgence there at the moment...

- Steampunk


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## psfred

The main advantage of Arkansas stones is that they generally wear very slowly (if at all with softer steels) and do not require regular flattening. Otherwise, I personally do not see any advantage to them over waterstones. Sharpening anything with a RC hardness over 60 on Arkansas stones is an exercise in severe frustration -- my mother was given a K-Bar small chef's knife for her wedding in 1951, and it's never been used until I found it and sharpened it on my waterstones -- she, and her friend who usually sharpened all her knives when he visited, could never get a decent edge on it with Arkansas stones.

I have never obtained an edge that I would consider better than what I get from a 6k waterstone and stropping on an oilstone of any kind, although I must say I have not had the opportunity to try on a translucent stone and Grandpa's black Arkansas is pretty badly worn after 150 years, so the lack of a good edge could easily be not having access to really good stones rather than their actual abilities.

I don't plan to spend a pile of money to compare them, I'm quite happy with my waterstones. Woodworking tools get and stay sharp just fine, and I've got sharper knives now than I ever have had before. 

Peter


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## Keith Sinclair

Thanks for the read Steam. I would keep soft, Translucent, Black slipstones in my Ice Carving chisel bag. I used both stainless and carbon Ice Chisels. Usually waiting for ice to temper would touch up my tools. 

Like Peter said prefer whetstones for both kitchen knives & wood chisels. Fast, easy to clean just rinse them off.


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## Adrian

Very interesting post Steampunk. Thanks for taking the time.


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## rick alen

keithsaltydog said:


> Like Peter said prefer whetstones for both kitchen knives & wood chisels. Fast, easy to clean just rinse them off.



I believe all sharpening stones are whetstones, whet means "sharpen." You mean waterstones here.

And Yup, great post by Steampunk.


Rick


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## CutFingers

Subjective...at the end of the day an edge is an edge. For fast efficiency basic water stone will be better. But there is nothing wrong with a good old fashioned black arky.


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