# Stabilized woods.



## Danzo (Nov 18, 2017)

Just curious what your guys thoughts are on stabilized vs unstabilized woods. Ive only used stabilize woods so far but its hard to find all the varieties stabilized, plus just regular kiln dried stuff is so much cheaper.


----------



## milkbaby (Nov 18, 2017)

Stabilized wood can still move, it still has some of the same characteristics of natural wood. I've had stabilized scales warp after I received them. The thing that really comes in handy is when trying to use very soft wood like burls, spalted wood, or low hardness woods, stabilization can make these more useable as knife handles.

Black walnut is often used natural or not stabilized, but it's physical properties are very similar to koa which is often used stabilized. Another argument is that natural wood was used for millenia for tool handles before stabilization was invented.

In my opinion, if you want to used natural wood, best option is kiln dried with a good sealed finish like sanded in Tru Oil similar to high end gun stock finish or possibly cyanoacrylate glue (super glue) finish. For a two piece wa handle, you might even get away with no special finish depending on the wood and low variation in relative humidity.

Edited to add: Some woods don't benefit or don't absorb or polymerize the resin stabilant. Heavy, dense, and oily woods are the ones that fall in this category. Some examples are desert ironwood, cocobolo, most rosewoods, ipe, and a bunch of others...


----------



## Danzo (Nov 18, 2017)

So basically the denser the wood, the safer it is to use unstabilized. I remember at one point seeing a hardwood density table around here at some point. If anyone has it please link, Ill look on the web t


----------



## RDalman (Nov 19, 2017)

Stabilized wood is imo something "invented" for knifemakers to make making easier, just buff a finish. I think it takes away some from the wood, makes it more into a block of plastic


----------



## toddnmd (Nov 19, 2017)

Oily woods often don't stabilize well. These are often dense woods, but not exactly the same.
I can see the argument for both. Yes, natural have a beauty, but stabilized offers some advantages about being resistant to moisture, humidity changes, warping, etc.


----------



## Danzo (Nov 19, 2017)

But assuming youre a knowledgeable knife user, and you probably already have a carbon knife anyway, the same treatment you give to your blade you can give to your handles. Theoreticllly is doesnt matter, especially with denser woods. Good stuff fellas.


----------



## Dikristo (Nov 19, 2017)

In my opinion, if you are making a daily, usable knife use only stabilized wood. They where made for a reason! Of course, you can use some types of unstabilized wood (such as melanoxylon/blackwood) but I never recommend it with everyday knives or when a knife will have spacers/bolsters etc. Stabilized indeed are expensive and difficult to find (especially under the proper stabilization method) but well worth the cost imo!


----------



## NO ChoP! (Nov 19, 2017)

I've had great luck with walnut burl, cocobolo, ironwood, toasted maple, koa, rosewood, ebony and a few others. I usually buy in bulk and let it sit for a good year. I use many coats of Danish oil, applied over 3 to 4 days with days to dry, followed by a dew wax and buffs.


----------



## BloodrootLS (Nov 19, 2017)

A lot of it has to do with the construction of the handle youre going with. Full tang and scales or hidden tang with metal spacers I strongly suggest stabilizing, and the best stabilization you can get. Wa handle with wood to wood or wood to horn its not usually necessary as the wood moves in ways that dont stress the joints. The other major consideration involved is who youre making the handles for and where they live. If you let the wood acclimate to your climate or house before you work it and then keep it in that area you will rarely have issues. Ship that knife to another climate thats radically different or building climate thats radically different and you will have problems.


----------



## scott.livesey (Nov 21, 2017)

look at what the stabilize process does, you are filling the pores of the wood with resin. you no longer have a piece of wood, you have a piece of resin. weight is the other factor, most stabilizing sites say wood will almost double in weight after treatment. furniture grade woods, hard maple, walnut, oak, hickory, if properly finished with oil or varnish and properly cared for, will last a life time as a table or a knife handle. 
there is something about the feel of finished real wood that is missing from stabilized wood.


----------



## Matus (Nov 21, 2017)

I would say - look at typical Japanese knife handle made from ho wood and buffalo horn. They were made replaceable for a reason 

P.S. I use both. it is just fun to have all those options.


----------



## Bensbites (Nov 22, 2017)

I make wa handles as a hobby. I only use natural woods because I like my handles to maintain the forward balance point of stock ho wood handles. Handles can be maintained simply by routine application of mineral oil or board conditioner.


----------



## Danzo (Nov 22, 2017)

all makes sense thanks guys. Ive decided that my safest bet is to continue to use stabilized woods for contracted projects just to stay on the safe side and increase longevity. But for personal knives I can stick to natural


----------



## toddnmd (Nov 22, 2017)

I think both have their merits and downsides. Stabilized is much less likely to crack or warp, and generally needs less maintenance and will tolerate a wider range of conditions. Yes, there is a different feel of natural wood finished with oil and/or wax, and it's cheaper than stabilized wood, but it's far more likely for natural wood to move over time.


----------



## Paraffin (Nov 22, 2017)

scott.livesey said:


> look at what the stabilize process does, you are filling the pores of the wood with resin. you no longer have a piece of wood, you have a piece of resin. weight is the other factor, most stabilizing sites say wood will almost double in weight after treatment. furniture grade woods, hard maple, walnut, oak, hickory, if properly finished with oil or varnish and properly cared for, will last a life time as a table or a knife handle.
> there is something about the feel of finished real wood that is missing from stabilized wood.



I'm with this guy. 

Every knife I've purchased since getting back into Japanese knives recently has had a hardwood, unstabilized (I'm pretty sure) wa handle. Two with rosewood handles (which can mean a *lot* of different things), and two with ebony handles (which I hope means just one thing). I just can't get into the look or feel of Ho wood handles. Probably a cultural thing, but it's my preference regardless.

Hardwood wa handles are already on the heavy side; added resin doesn't help with the knife balance. I know enough about wood from other hobbies, mainly musical instruments (including "wet" ones like wooden flutes), to know how they'll respond to wear and water over time. If the wood moves and a horn ferrule doesn't, I'll just sand smooth and refinish. I use a little butcher block wax now and then on the rosewood handles that are more porous than ebony, but that's about it. I like handles that show wear, aren't too slick under my hand, and look like wood instead of plastic.

But that's just one end-user perspective. If I made and sold knives for a living, I'd probably use stabilized wood to avoid returns on long/lifetime warranties where the user did something dumb like throw it in a dishwasher.


----------



## scott.livesey (Nov 25, 2017)

Paraffin said:


> I'm with this guy.
> 
> Every knife I've purchased since getting back into Japanese knives recently has had a hardwood, unstabilized (I'm pretty sure) wa handle. Two with rosewood handles (which can mean a *lot* of different things), and two with ebony handles (which I hope means just one thing). I just can't get into the look or feel of Ho wood handles. Probably a cultural thing, but it's my preference regardless.
> 
> Hardwood wa handles are already on the heavy side; added resin doesn't help with the knife balance. I know enough about wood from other hobbies, mainly musical instruments (including "wet" ones like wooden flutes), to know how they'll respond to wear and water over time. If the wood moves and a horn ferrule doesn't, I'll just sand smooth and refinish. I use a little butcher block wax now and then on the rosewood handles that are more porous than ebony, but that's about it. I like handles that show wear, aren't too slick under my hand, and look like wood instead of plastic. But that's just one end-user perspective. If I made and sold knives for a living, I'd probably use stabilized wood to avoid returns on long/lifetime warranties where the user did something dumb like throw it in a dishwasher.


you cover dishwasher damage in the warranty, just like some makers have the "striking bone or using on a glass cutting board voids this warranty." hard maple or walnut are fairly light and useful if you want to get your 8" chef's knife weight to 3oz. dogwood and locust are very heavy and useful for adjusting the balance point.


----------



## ecchef (Dec 4, 2017)

I had a pair of gorgeous b&w ebony scales move in every possible direction. The torsion eventually broke the mechanical bonds with the tang. I had them replaced with micarta. For me, stabilized is the way to go on working knives.


----------

