# Improving the clarity on hardwood knife handles...



## Mucho Bocho (Mar 7, 2015)

I've got a question about what I can do to get the hardwood to pop on my Carter Muteki. 

I think it's Ironwood and there is some contrast in the wood but the finish has a dull mat grey haze finish. I'd like to be able to clearly see the details in the wood.

I've tried putting board butter and that does make it darker but that it still has a dull look. 

The handle is covered with what looks like the hue that's left on a chalk board after its been dry erased. 

I appreciate any insight on what I can do to improve the contrast in the wood. I don't think it's been stabilized either.


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## chinacats (Mar 7, 2015)

A light sanding will help bring back the original look, but it will soon darken again. Maybe a wax after sanding may help to protect the color/look?


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## ThEoRy (Mar 7, 2015)

Shine it up with micro mesh pads then treat it with mineral oil.


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## pleue (Mar 7, 2015)

Ironwood doesn't take to stabilization as far as I know. You could sand it down to bare wood and finish to the type of finish you prefer, or you could take it to a buffing wheel and see what happens. Tape that edge up really well before you do.


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## CPD (Mar 8, 2015)

You can definitely add shine (reflection) to it with a mix of sanding/buffing. Clean with alcohol....then, I'd run from a 400 grit to 1000 to 1500. You can further buff it out with white rouge, or protect it with a good wax (try Renaissance wax).

If you want to pop the grain of the wood itself, and not just add surface reflectivity, that's usually more easily achieved using some type of coating/finish that can penetrate some - likely a drying oil/varnish like danish oil or tung oil. Ironwood, and many oily exotics, can be tricky because they don't like to absorb oil ...but you can finish ironwood that way. I've used a product called Waterlox for blackwood, ironwood and other exotics with good results....and there's a bunch of other products people like that are similar. Some will also use CA glue as a finish to get high sheen. 

Apart from preference of just simple oil or buffed handles, versus coatings...which many have different takes on -the negative for drying oils (versus mineral oil/butcher block oil) is they might make the grip more slippery than you like if you polish it out to a high sheen. And you've got to give them time to cure/dry.... CA glue (basically superglue), does work well to polish. Woodturners love it but the fumes (and breathing saw dust from it) are not good.


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## toddnmd (Mar 9, 2015)

If you already have a hard or penetrating finish, you will have to remove it (by sanding or chemicals) to start over. Posting some pics might help. Any idea what the original finish is? Might be worth asking if you can find out.
I've never worked with ironwood before, but for some oily woods, you have to wipe with some type of solvent just before applying a finish. 
I had a handle that was a little big, so I sanded it down and then used Tru Oil finish. Very happy with the results.


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## Mucho Bocho (Mar 9, 2015)

Thanks for all the FB guys. My first attempt was to do as Rick suggested. Sanded with a micro mesh progression. Maybe five steps then mineral oil the board butter and let it do overnight. The handle feels better not sure it looks any different. 

Before:






After:


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## apicius9 (Mar 9, 2015)

No disrespect to others, but I have learned a lot from CPD's posts and would definitely try those ideas out. Gettig curious myself, wondering how a CA glue finish will hold up in a kitchen environment....

Stefan


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## chinacats (Mar 9, 2015)

apicius9 said:


> No disrespect to others, but I have learned a lot from CPD's posts and would definitely try those ideas out. Gettig curious myself, wondering how a CA glue finish will hold up in a kitchen environment....
> 
> Stefan



It sounds like it may be a way to prevent the somewhat inevitable darkening of the wood...I may try it on some ironwood myself. Not a pro, but have to think it would leave a pretty durable finish.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Mar 9, 2015)

chinacats said:


> It sounds like it may be a way to prevent the somewhat inevitable darkening of the wood...I may try it on some ironwood myself. Not a pro, but have to think it would leave a pretty durable finish.


Very durable indeed, but a bit tricky to apply properly. If you look for "CA glue finish" on youtube you'll get a basic idea of problems that you'll need to overcome when working with CA glue.


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## Mucho Bocho (Mar 9, 2015)

I checked out a few UT videos. 

Apply product to clean substrate, let dry, sand, clean, reapply product... Apply four or five cycles. Simple right?

Some thoughts come to my mind:
1. Will the glue slough off after the wood expands and contracts with moisture. 

2. At the seam of say a full tang western, will the glue tolerate the differential expansion of the wood and metal at the seam. 

3. Should the wood before the first layer be roughed up with lowish grit to give the polymer something to hold on to? 

I'm curious


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## toddnmd (Mar 9, 2015)

MB, I don't think you have to worry about #1 and #2. 
I think you would want the wood pretty smooth before finishing. Wood, even sanded, should have remaining texture for the glue to hold on to.

I had my MAC bread knife rehandled (with koa). The guy who did it finished the koa with a CA finish. Not that I've really tested in anything like harsh conditions, but it's held up well. The wood grain shows through beautifully.


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## mkriggen (Mar 10, 2015)

MB, I dont know how much effort youre looking to put into this, but this is how I treat ironwood (start to finish, jump in wherever you like)

1. Sand with 120g

2. Generously apply a 50/50 mix of denatured alcohol and shellac using 220 wet/dry paper. By applying with the wet/dry sandpaper, this acts as a grain filler. This is very important if you want to bring out the best of the woods figure.

3. After 15 or 20 minutes, knock off any excess surface buildup with a quick scrubbing with 180g paper. Allow to dry for another hour.

4. Sand back down to bare wood with 180g.

5. Repeat step 2.

6. Repeat step 3 using 220g.

7. Sand down to bare wood using 220g.

8. Repeat step 2 using 320g wet/dry sandpaper.

9. Repeat step 3 using 320g.

10. Sand down to bare wood using 320g.

11. Continue to sand the wood through a progression of 400, 600, 1200, and 2000g.

12. Using a lint free cloth, rub in a thin coat of tung oil that has been diluted with about 50% mineral spirits. The dilution helps it penetrate the wood and speeds up the cure.

13. After about 10 minutes apply another coat. Repeat as you like. I generally do about 6 coats, but sometimes I lose count. You do not need to sand between coats of tung oil.

14. Let cure for at least 24hrs. Ironwood likes a long cure, so 48hrs is even better

15. Sand down with 2000g until the whole surface has a uniform sheen. This removes the very top dead layer of the finish and evens it out for the final polishing.

16. Polish using 3micron 3M micro polishing paper (http://www.knifemaking.com/product-p/wd103.htm ). Follow with 2micron then 1micron.


Be well,
Mikey


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## CPD (Mar 10, 2015)

apicius9 said:


> No disrespect to others, but I have learned a lot from CPD's posts and would definitely try those ideas out. Gettig curious myself, wondering how a CA glue finish will hold up in a kitchen environment....
> 
> Stefan



Thanks, Stefan. (Speaking of past posts - but without hijacking here - been experimenting with hide glue for handles. Have a test run planned later this week..will let you know the result) 

Back to this - As for durability of CA - it's sturdy. The stuff dries to a brittle hard finish. While it can chip if you drop something, it's also pretty easy to repair. Just add more and re-polish 

The biggest trick to using it is to make sure you buy a thin variety (it usually comes in different gel thicknesses for gap filling) and build up coats slowly so you don't get too much of a mess. 
Sand between coats to level as needed and then, you can polish it to high gloss with mineral oil as a lubricant to wet sand. 

Pen turners use CA quite a bit this way to impressive results. In their case, they can apply it on a lathe to a spinning project which takes away some of the challenge of applying such a fast drying finish. Personally - I tend to avoid the stuff but that's only because the dust is a nasty irritant both to breathe and to skin ... if I'm not super careful with some exotic woods, or CA glue, my eyelids will itch for days. 

Back to the original post questions - I'd likely follow a schedule similar to Mikey's. My variation would be few changes, but that's just a matter of my style of working.... no criticisms to his approach, just the opposite, would add a +1 to it (and thanks for taking the time to write it out) My variations:

Grain filling with shellac is always a good step. I often don't bother on super dense woods like ironwood, but on the other hand, base-coating with shellac will not only help grain fill, it will also seal in some of the natural oil, and it can add an increase in shine. I'd use a blonde or super-blonde higher grade shellac at a 2lb cut. Premium shellacs are expensive than something like bullseye but they do help more depth and sheen to a finish. The effect would be pronounced on something with strong contrasting figure like curly maple...and lighter woods....probably not so much on ironwood. Keep in mind, the shellac will add some golden coloring. 

If I'm going for a glossier finish, i'll do two coats of shellac, sometimes three. Sanding to barewood with 220 between the first coats...then sanding to 300-400 between second and third, if two coats. 
(shellac by itself can build to incredible piano finish shines but it's not a fan of heat and can melt so only light coatings for sealing and sheen are best for kitchen stuff, in my opinion)

Unlike Mikey, I don't sand to high grit before applying the first coat of a long-oil finish. I've never found it worth the effort relative to result... I wipe on a thinned coat after sanding to 400 max...let dry and then add one or two coats at lesser dilution. After that, I'll build up more coats as needed - exact amount depending on the project - before polishing. Sanding between coats is not really needed with the oils I use other than to knock down any areas that got uneven..or catch anything that got stuck in the finish. 

most oil finishes will darken things up some and add a little amber tone. If you want to keep a really clear finish, it's better to use a spray lacquer after the shellac. A few companies sell spray cans for guitar finishes that will work great. These finishes will also "build and leave a nice durable shine.


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## Sabaki (Mar 12, 2015)

Dont like CA glue, to toxic fumes/dust and cracks/flakes when it get's damaged, maybe it will work on such hard wood as Ironwodd?
I use mostly softer wood's and after the sanding to 400-600 i first treat it with tung oil to prevent the wood from soaking and makes the structure more visible in the wood, i then apply 4-7 layer's of Danish oil (24 hour dry time every layer) to make the handle durable and shiny. 
it will never crack or flake off even if the knife get's dropped! after 24 hour polish with a soft cloth or soft buffing wheel.
The best is to let it dry for at least a week or two after the last coating, it makes the handle even more durable.

Provides a very good grip in water also:thumbsup:


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## Mucho Bocho (Mar 12, 2015)

Thanks so much for the feedback Mikey, Sabak and CPD. 

Mikey, thats amazing how much work you put into your handles. I had no idea, I'm quite impressed. I might just have you do my Muteki. 

If that was the case, I'd be open to getting creating with then new handle. Hidden tang, tapering western?

I'm not so crazy about the handle but I really like the knife.


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