# Elmax Super Steel? How does it compare to other powdered steel.



## DitmasPork (Feb 11, 2019)

Elmax Super Steel? Wondering how it compares to other powdered steel. The only powdered steel knive I have is a Kagero gyuto.

This popped up in my IG, for a forthcoming Kickstarter.

https://artisanrevere.com/

Personally, not a big fan of the knife makers tagline:
“Artisan Revere crafts super steel kitchen knives so sharp, so durable—your food almost cuts itself. (Almost.)”

Profile of the knife looks Kramer-esque.


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## Dhoff (Feb 11, 2019)

Similar to M390 as far as I've been able to find out. Max HRC about 61-62.


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## HRC_64 (Feb 11, 2019)

They use this in Bark river hunting knives...it has a reputation for being a difficult steel unless its perfectly heat treated. Even BR doesn't like it above or below a very narrow range of hardness around ~61 IIRC


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## Interapid101 (Feb 11, 2019)

I used to EDC a ZT folder made of Elmax, and I abused the hell out of it, including batoning. Not one chip (but the blade was quite thick with a fairly obtuse edge), and edge retention was good. Not the worst steel to sharpen, either. I'd compare it to D2 in that regard, although it seemed to take a nicer edge than D2. Good steel, but I don't think I'd really like it in the kitchen. I'd prefer something easier to sharpen, and I'd gladly trade that for wear resistance.


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## Matus (Feb 11, 2019)

As very nicely shown in one of the articles from Larrin - this kind of steels (with lots of carbides) do not work too well with very acute edges. After all - all of these are modern tool steels meant for steel-working rather than knives. I have a pocket knife with M390 blade and it microchips with 30 inclusive edge angle with normal tasks (slicing cardboard for example)


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## Barmoley (Feb 11, 2019)

Yep, it is supposed to be a little tougher but a little less wear resistent than m390 given best heat treats for each.

We deal with such thin edges and cross sections in kitchen knives that it is difficult to draw conclusions from other types of knives since geometry can drastically change performance of any steel.


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## RDalman (Feb 11, 2019)

It's really good actually when you find it's (very narrow) sweet spot for the geometry you're going to grind. It's datasheet hardnesses are not in line with what you get at all imo. Needs a fair bit of playing around with. I've had it up to 66-67 I believe one tested.
Gave a local chef (also good sharpener) a prototype about four months back when I was happy with a new heat treat recipe, and he told me a few weeks ago it's the only knife he uses now. It retired about 15 good japanese


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## Matus (Feb 11, 2019)

Robin I would guess that the steel is not the only reason there [emoji6]


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## DitmasPork (Feb 11, 2019)

RDalman said:


> It's really good actually when you find it's (very narrow) sweet spot for the geometry you're going to grind. It's datasheet hardnesses are not in line with what you get at all imo. Needs a fair bit of playing around with. I've had it up to 66-67 I believe one tested.
> Gave a local chef (also good sharpener) a prototype about four months back when I was happy with a new heat treat recipe, and he told me a few weeks ago it's the only knife he uses now. It retired about 15 good japanese


Is it a steel you’re keen on working with? I’m a pretty basic carbon guy, but fascinated with some of the newer steels.


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## RDalman (Feb 12, 2019)

Well sure, but I don't know how much I will end up using it. Like you I feel more for the easier to sharpen steels.


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## pennman (Feb 12, 2019)

It’s an excellent steel for chef knives. Takes a very thin edge and really is not a pain to sharpen. But I use and make lots of M4 and S110V blades and Elmax sharpens like butter compared to them. If you are comfortable sharpening SG2/R2 blades, Elmax is not much different.


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## Cyrilix (Feb 12, 2019)

pennman said:


> It’s an excellent steel for chef knives. Takes a very thin edge and really is not a pain to sharpen. But I use and make lots of M4 and S110V blades and Elmax sharpens like butter compared to them. If you are comfortable sharpening SG2/R2 blades, Elmax is not much different.



How big are the carbides and how much by volume?


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## HRC_64 (Feb 12, 2019)

Cyrilix said:


> How big are the carbides and how much by volume?



has 18% chromium...


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## Cyrilix (Feb 12, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> has 18% chromium...


I mean carbide volume, not Chromium. This usually tells you a little bit about edge stability.


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## madelinez (Feb 12, 2019)

Well most chromium over 12% contributes to carbides, and it's got 3% vanadium as well. So it's definitely on the heavy side.


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## vicv (Feb 12, 2019)

Elmax is my favorite stainless steel. That being said I wouldn't want it in a kitchen knife. I just don't feel the high wear resistance is necessary cutting vegetables. But otherwise probably the best all around steel there is. Tough, hard, wear resistant, resistant to corrosion, easy to sharpen. I consider it to be what s30v promised to be but fell far short


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## inferno (Feb 14, 2019)

just gonna leave this here


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## Cyrilix (Feb 14, 2019)

inferno said:


> just gonna leave this here




I'm curious if R2 would've fared better.


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## inferno (Feb 14, 2019)

highly unlikely. They are all very high carbon, high Cr steels. Very similar all in all. you would probably have to drop down to 0,8 or lower C to notice a big difference and most likely lower Cr too.


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## Cyrilix (Feb 14, 2019)

inferno said:


> highly unlikely. They are all very high carbon, high Cr steels. Very similar all in all. you would probably have to drop down to 0,8 or lower C to notice a big difference and most likely lower Cr too.


Just by composition though, I would imagine R2 is more durable. Still not necessarily considered durable, but probably making good tradeoffs.


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## vicv (Feb 16, 2019)

As all things many factors can influence results but it's not going to shatter if you sneeze on it


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## PC315 (Mar 29, 2019)

This knife (https://kickstarter.artisanrevere.com/) started popping up on my FB feed ads... Did anyone buy one to try out?


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## Nikabrik (Mar 29, 2019)

RDalman said:


> It's really good actually when you find it's (very narrow) sweet spot for the geometry you're going to grind. It's datasheet hardnesses are not in line with what you get at all imo. Needs a fair bit of playing around with. I've had it up to 66-67 I believe one tested.
> Gave a local chef (also good sharpener) a prototype about four months back when I was happy with a new heat treat recipe, and he told me a few weeks ago it's the only knife he uses now. It retired about 15 good japanese





PC315 said:


> This knife (https://kickstarter.artisanrevere.com/) started popping up on my FB feed ads... Did anyone buy one to try out?



Well, it turns out (per their own admission on Kickstarter) that they're only taking them to 60 HRC.

Heat treating is done by "Brad" in Pennsylvania, so maybe that's Peters'.

Grinds are done by "Hector" in Michigan - no idea who that is or what his level of experience/skill is. They do say it's a convex grind.

I do like how they're doing a campaign to do a batch, using individuals who are presumably good at a particular task. It does make me uncomfortable that we have nothing to go on except their solicited endorsements.


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## AT5760 (Mar 29, 2019)

What a sales pitch. Look at the sharpener they throw in! My favorite part though:

“2,3, and 4 are normally diametrically opposed.”


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## inferno (Mar 29, 2019)

vicv said:


> As all things many factors can influence results but it's not going to shatter if you sneeze on it





you are aware that you can do this with almost any stainless steel if hardened properly right?
3V would probably not have chipped out at all there.

there was a guy on bladeforums destruction testing striders in s30v maybe 10 years back.
and he really did test to destruction. his name was noss. search for noss. these vids are still out there floating around.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noss+knife+test


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## Bert2368 (Feb 13, 2021)

Just tripped over their Facebook advertisements.

Hey, ONLY $445!


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## DavidPF (Feb 13, 2021)

It's been about a year since this thread started, and still nobody here seems to have tried one of the knives.

The way people spend money on knives here, that kind of surprises me. Is everyone waiting for someone else to go first? It appears they have a 2-month trial period...

"Not trying it because it's likely to chip" isn't much of an explanation coming from KKF... just about _everything_ on here is likely to chip.


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## DitmasPork (Feb 13, 2021)

Bert2368 said:


> Just tripped over their Facebook advertisements.
> 
> Hey, ONLY $445!
> 
> View attachment 114094



Ha! Totally forgot I started this thread. Interestingly, last night I just stumbled onto Greg's IG post using that knife. I've no issue with the price, like the idea of supporting another US maker. That said, I've instituted a moratorium on knife acquisitions for the time being.


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## DavidPF (Feb 13, 2021)

Greg doesn't count - he's like that old Sabatier warehouse a few years ago - "Oh look, here are ten thousand extra knives, who knew these were here?"


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## Bert2368 (Feb 15, 2021)

...


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## Bert2368 (Jul 23, 2021)

Just tripped over the Farcebook advertisement AGAIN. Anything on Farcebook is automatically given 2 extra grains of salt, personally.

Their web site is quite gushy, claims 2.3 x edge retention over Wusthoff. They MIGHT have picked a higher mark than such a German mass market, softish, "newbee safe" grade steel.

Costs like a good quality J knife. Claims to be a "laser". What does it cut like... And how much harder is elmax to sharpen than White #2, because EVERYTHING needs to be sharpened, eventually.

Enquiring minds want to know! But in my case, not enough to spend over 50% of what I pay myself per month for working full time.


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## coxhaus (Jul 23, 2021)

It is interesting in that they recommend a Worksharp for sharpening.

I have no problems with my Henckels 4star and Wusthof Classic knives. The handle does look nice. I don't like knives with handles that don't fit me.

PS
I wonder if my wife would use it? I could replace the MAC Pro I bought her. Maybe the handle would fit me.


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## MOCDaddy (Jul 23, 2021)

I have one of the earlier prototypes, not sure if they have made any changes, but I’m quite happy with the knife, I’ve only sharpened it on stones 2-3x it wasn’t quite as miserable as I was expecting. 

About 2-3 months ago I put one of Harbeer’s Z wear knives in the kitchen drawer as my go to knife when quickly prepping something for the family and I don’t want to bring out the whole roll. As a result, the Artisan Revere is not getting much use these days, but honestly it’s probably seen more total use than all my other knives as it was nice to have a easy to deal with blade while cooking for a young family.


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## Ggmerino (Jul 24, 2021)

I have one of their pairing knives. I really like the broad blade for my big thumb, nice belly and handle Too. The grind is nice- very thin but not a laser. Nice taper. The Elmax is pretty incredible for a stainless steel. Contrary to what I expected, it sharpens easy on my Shapton glass stones. It does remind me of R2/SG2, maybe a little tiny bit less sharp but better wear. It does have an odd slightly “rough” feel on the stones - like SV35N maybe. It has a 50/50 straight bevel. All the other Artisan Revere knives have a convex bevel if I remember correctly, that is why they recommend the belt sharpening system- I didn’t want to deal with it so I stuck with the pairing. Don’t think I’d buy one of their other knives, but I do like the pairing a lot.


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## Bert2368 (Jul 24, 2021)

Ggmerino said:


> I have one of their pairing knives. I really like the broad blade for my big thumb, nice belly and handle Too. The grind is nice- very thin but not a laser. Nice taper. The Elmax is pretty incredible for a stainless steel. Contrary to what I expected, it sharpens easy on my Shapton glass stones. It does remind me of R2/SG2, maybe a little tiny bit less sharp but better wear. It does have an odd slightly “rough” feel on the stones - like SV35N maybe. It has a 50/50 straight bevel. All their other knives have a convex bevel if I remember correctly, that is why they recommend the belt sharpening system- I didn’t want to deal with it so I stuck with the petty. Don’t think I’d buy one of their other knives, but I do like the pairing a lot.


Thanks to you all who have actually had these in your hands!

Keep 'em coming...


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