# Copper Conical Braiser/ Curved Sauté Evasée?



## MAS4T0 (Mar 27, 2016)

Hi KKF!

First I'm going to apologise for all the 'which pan should I buy' threads which I've been starting recently, this one should be the last. I've decided to to go mostly with Demyere Atlantis pans, as the lady doesn't like cleaning rivets. :wink: 

I have got permission for one copper riveted pan and I would appreciate some opinions on the De Buyer Prima Matera Conical Braiser/ Curved Sauté Evasée.

I'm thinking that it would look great for serving directly at the table and it seems to me that it should be quite versatile. I'm thinking that it could be used for big batches of risotto (it's a 5 litre capacity), quickly reducing tomato sauce for Italian cooking and could also be used as a braiser and sauté pan. 

I'd appreciate some advice on how copper compares to cast iron for braising, and if this is as versatile a pan as I'm thinking. If this is not a good choice, what else from their range would you choose and why. The other pan I'm thinking of at the moment is a straight walled sauté pan, but I'm open to suggestions I'm also thinking of going for bigger pans to get the most benefit from the copper.


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## DamageInc (Mar 27, 2016)

Do you have a gas stove? No reason to go for an "induction ready" copper pot if you are not using induction.

I've tried De Buyer copper and I prefer Mauviel. The De Buyer copper is only 2mm thick vs Mauviel's 2.5mm. I have the 28cm stewpan and I use it all the time for long braises.

The prices are also a whole lot better here: http://eshop.e-dehillerin.fr/en/copper-cuprinox-extra-thick-xsl-243_270.html than at WS.

Also, stainless steel lined copper is a whole lot better for long braising than cast iron. First of all, you have not leeching from the cast iron if you want to do an acid based braise. You don't have to worry about seasoning. The copper will also heat way more evenly, helping you make sure that there are no big hot spots and that all of the braise cooks close to the same temperature.


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## MAS4T0 (Mar 27, 2016)

DamageInc said:


> Do you have a gas stove? No reason to go for an "induction ready" copper pot if you are not using induction.



I'm on Halogen at the moment. I'm intending to switch it out for a Siemens Free Induction cooktop, so I do want to go for induction compatible pans:

[video=youtube;QSJzq8rbR2c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSJzq8rbR2c[/video]



DamageInc said:


> The prices are also a whole lot better here: http://eshop.e-dehillerin.fr/en/copper-cuprinox-extra-thick-xsl-243_270.html than at WS.



Thank you for the link, I had it bookmarked from when you posted it previously and I am intending to drive over to France shortly and buy the pan(s) from their store while I'm there. There's a referendum here shortly on if we're staying in the EU so I should get on this quite quickly or start making plans to relocate to the continent.



DamageInc said:


> I've tried De Buyer copper and I prefer Mauviel. The De Buyer copper is only 2mm thick vs Mauviel's 2.5mm. I have the 28cm stewpan and I use it all the time for long braises.
> 
> Also, stainless steel lined copper is a whole lot better for long braising than cast iron. First of all, you have not leeching from the cast iron if you want to do an acid based braise. You don't have to worry about seasoning. The copper will also heat way more evenly, helping you make sure that there are no big hot spots and that all of the braise cooks close to the same temperature.



That's what I was thinking regarding braising, I was unsure if there was some benefit to cast iron which I couldn't think of. If the copper Sauté Evasée can do double duty and save me needing to buy another Le Cruset/ Staub then it makes it much better value. I should maybe specify that I was referring to enameled cast iron.


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## DamageInc (Mar 27, 2016)

Honestly, if you don't have gas and you want to switch to induction, I would not invest in copper cookware. You just don't get the full benefits of it and if you have to use "induction compatible", and at those prices, it's crazy. You are getting an inch and paying for a mile.

I've made hundreds of braises in my Staub and Le Creuset enameled pots before I purchased my copper and they've all come out absolutely fine. I consider copper a luxury but only if using it on gas. Plus, if your induction cooktop is good, you will not have hotspot problems with cast iron anyway.

I would say stick with enameled cast iron. And if it's between Staub and Le Creuset, I prefer Staub. They also sell Staub at E. Dehillerin.


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## daveb (Mar 27, 2016)

The pan you linked to is stunning. But.

I think Damage is on the track I would / did choose. 1 LeC and 2 Staub braising pans. Great on electric, gas or induction as well as slow braising in the oven. 

Curious how the thinner walled copper would do for pan roasting or oven braising. 

Regardless of the material I think you'll find the size and shape very versatile.


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## bkultra (Mar 27, 2016)

I know value is subjective, but the de Buyer is priced very high for 1.8 mm of copper (.2 mm is the interior stainless). The pan also has a stainless steel lid (another cost saving feature), and at this price point? Sure it out preforms the Demeyere Atlantis conical sauteuse, but not by very much. Now if you love the look (and who wouldn't) and price is no object, by all means.


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## MAS4T0 (Mar 29, 2016)

Thanks everyone!

I must admit that I was mostly going for it because of the light weight (comparatively) and because I liked the looks... 

I wanted to make sure that it would perform at least as well as the cheaper options before pulling the trigger. I was thinking that it would work well for the wife as it's quite a bit lighter than the similar size Demeyere pans and far lighter than cast iron (which she struggles to lift when empty). I'm now thinking that the responsiveness of copper would maybe be a bad thing for oven use as the internal temperature would tend to fluctuate much more as the oven cycles whereas cast iron should help to regulate the internal temperature and buffer the fluctuations of the oven. I would also agree about the lids, I've been entirely on glass and cast iron lids for a long time so I went to a Le Cruset store yesterday to see how their lids were and they felt like the lids from cheap metal trash cans.

In that case, what would you recommend for the wife?
At present the only things she uses in the oven are thin baking trays, a Scanpan roasting tin and pyrex glass cookware (as she can't lift the cast iron when it's loaded with food). Would some good quality stoneware work well (like the Emile Henry flame range) or should I buy a couple of smaller Staubs so that she can sub-divide things into more manageable sizes/ weights?


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## Jovidah (Mar 29, 2016)

Get a stronger wife. 

By the way, if you're switching stovetops anyway, isn't it an option to switch to gas?


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## MAS4T0 (Mar 29, 2016)

Jovidah said:


> Get a stronger wife.
> 
> By the way, if you're switching stovetops anyway, isn't it an option to switch to gas?



It is an option. Maybe I should start a thread on that too. I'm intending to go with a "zoneless" induction hob so that pans of any shape and size fit and heat evenly - I think the induction hob's I'm looking at have about 50 small coils on them.

I like the idea of not having gas in the house (at all) and only having the outdoor wok and BBQ running on gas.


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## bkultra (Mar 29, 2016)

I'm out of the house now, but I'll PM you when I get a chance. Once I get a better idea of her needs I can recommend you something.


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## Castalia (Mar 29, 2016)

Sorry to sort of derail your thread, but I vote for gas as well. We did a kitchen remodel a few years ago and tried an Electrolux induction for a week or so. The odd buzzing, not heating a pot of water as quickly as advertised, along with the prospect of replacing lots of cookware with induction compatible gear kind of turned us off. We switched to a Wolf gas range and have been very happy. If you are a fanatic about kitchen gear like many of us are, you can't go wrong with gas. Works with any pot, easy to adjust etc.


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## MAS4T0 (Mar 29, 2016)

bkultra said:


> I'm out of the house now, but I'll PM you when I get a chance. Once I get a better idea of her needs I can recommend you something.



Thank you!



Castalia said:


> Sorry to sort of derail your thread, but I vote for gas as well. We did a kitchen remodel a few years ago and tried an Electrolux induction for a week or so. The odd buzzing, not heating a pot of water as quickly as advertised, along with the prospect of replacing lots of cookware with induction compatible gear kind of turned us off. We switched to a Wolf gas range and have been very happy. If you are a fanatic about kitchen gear like many of us are, you can't go wrong with gas. Works with any pot, easy to adjust etc.



Thank you for the heads up on the buzzing, that would drive me insane. I'll have to look into them and see if the ones I'm considering would be audible, if they are it'll be a deal breaker and it will have to be gas.


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## Castalia (Mar 29, 2016)

I think the humming buzzing is related to particular pots. If there are other kitchen sounds going on you are unlikely to hear it, but when we tried it for a week at home with other things being quiet, the sound was quite noticeable. Of course gas has its own sound as well (but not as annoying as the induction). :doublethumbsup:


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## aboynamedsuita (Mar 29, 2016)

As you've already noted the Atlantis is rather heavy, and in the non-clad items (sauce pan, saute pan, etc.) the weight is almost entirely in the base so it feels heavier as you tilt to pour. I have to be extra careful one-handing the 20cm saucepan and 24cm saute pan (24cm fry pan is no problem, but the 32cm is something else).

Since there is now discussion about gas vs induction, my choice would be gas. I have no experience with induction, and wouldn't mind having induction capability (in addition to gas) in my "dream kitchen", but there are some concerns with it as well in addition to the fan/EMF noise. Many cookware manufacturers advise against using the booster (I'd have to check to be sure, but I believe the literature that came with my Staub and Atlantis say not to use it), and there is also some research that indicates it may interfere with cardiac pacemakers (links below). 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16635999
http://www.bag.admin.ch/themen/strahlung/00053/00673/03156/index.html?lang=en


I like the idea of having both gas and an electric (i.e. induction) source in the event of either a gas or power outage. An old-school purist would go for a wood stove lol.


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## MAS4T0 (Mar 29, 2016)

tjangula said:


> As you've already noted the Atlantis is rather heavy, and in the non-clad items (sauce pan, saute pan, etc.) the weight is almost entirely in the base so it feels heavier as you tilt to pour. I have to be extra careful one-handing the 20cm saucepan and 24cm saute pan (24cm fry pan is no problem, but the 32cm is something else).
> 
> Since there is now discussion about gas vs induction, my choice would be gas. I have no experience with induction, and wouldn't mind having induction capability (in addition to gas) in my "dream kitchen", but there are some concerns with it as well in addition to the fan/EMF noise. Many cookware manufacturers advise against using the booster (I'd have to check to be sure, but I believe the literature that came with my Staub and Atlantis say not to use it), and there is also some research that indicates it may interfere with cardiac pacemakers (links below).
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16635999
> ...



Thank you for letting me know. I'm debating whether gas is necessary. We're in the planning stages for a new house (which might be a few years away from actually being built) and the cooktop will be the deciding factor on whether or not we install a gas line to the house. That's part of the reason why I'm looking into induction compatibility now - I don't want to have to change the pans a few years from now.

I've been looking into hobs seriously over the last week or so and this one by Miele is currently out in front. I think it has 36 small inductor coils, so maybe we can get relatively even heating out of lighter weight pans.


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## DamageInc (Mar 29, 2016)

I would never pay such a large amount of money for an induction hob. Miele is good and all, but for that kind of cash you could get a serious pro level gas stove.


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## Mucho Bocho (Mar 29, 2016)

I have a Buxton 1800 portable induction hob and use it mostly with liquids. Even though gas is still king for sauté its also a lot more versatile that induction. But gas but has its drawbacks too. Personally I wouldn't not want to be cooking without either. For the home cook, a portable Induction hob is a very affordable and useful kitchen tool.


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## MAS4T0 (Mar 29, 2016)

DamageInc said:


> I would never pay such a large amount of money for an induction hob. Miele is good and all, but for that kind of cash you could get a serious pro level gas stove.



I'd assume that the gas option would last a lot longer too.



Mucho Bocho said:


> I have a Buxton 1800 portable induction hob and use it mostly with liquids. Even though gas is still king for sauté its also a lot more versatile that induction. But gas but has its drawbacks too. Personally I wouldn't not want to be cooking without either. For the home cook, a portable Induction hob is a very affordable and useful kitchen tool.



It probably would be a good idea for me to pick up one of these now so that I can get a feel for induction and then I'll know with certainty whether it would be viable to forgo gas.

Are the cheap portable ones for around $100 okay?


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## bkultra (Mar 29, 2016)

MAS4T0 said:


> Are the cheap portable ones for around $100 okay?



Yes, the best of the cheaper units is the DUXTOP 9100MC (currently $70). Infact if you want better you have to spend $400+ (Vollrath 59500P)

https://www.centurylife.org/how-to-...-portable-induction-cooker-countertop-burner/


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## daveb (Mar 29, 2016)

+1 Duxtop. With an "energy efficient" electric stove top it's about the only way I can boil water.


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## Mucho Bocho (Mar 29, 2016)

daveb said:


> +1 Duxtop. With an "energy efficient" electric stove top it's about the only way I can boil water.



If your using an electric stove with Heij knives something is ass-ended.


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## daveb (Mar 30, 2016)

Can't argue that. But only 1 Heiji (I think)


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## Jovidah (Mar 30, 2016)

If I had the choice I would always take gas over induction. Reasons for me would be:
-easier to control; gives direct feedback and you can just see what is going on
-it still works when you lift a pan; very useful when you saute by tossing stuff instead of stirring stuff
-far more flexible when choosing pans

Also keep in mind most induction models come in counter-top models. I would always prefer a seperate stove model - the big kind with an oven (which you have a lot of choice in when it comes to gas). Reason for this is that while the integrated cooktops might look fancy, they are often rather cramped and offer less space for your pans. This is often because it's not as 'deep' (often just over 50cm compared to a more generous 60 for stoves) which makes it impossible to put several larger pans behind or next to eachother.
This is really something to watch out for. A lot of countertop models, whether gas or induction, often have trouble fitting more than 2 large frying pans, regardless of whether it's a 4 or 5 burner model.


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## krx927 (Apr 7, 2016)

Jovidah said:


> Also keep in mind most induction models come in counter-top models. I would always prefer a seperate stove model - the big kind with an oven (which you have a lot of choice in when it comes to gas). Reason for this is that while the integrated cooktops might look fancy, they are often rather cramped and offer less space for your pans. This is often because it's not as 'deep' (often just over 50cm compared to a more generous 60 for stoves) which makes it impossible to put several larger pans behind or next to eachother.
> This is really something to watch out for. A lot of countertop models, whether gas or induction, often have trouble fitting more than 2 large frying pans, regardless of whether it's a 4 or 5 burner model.



This is so true. I am still kicking my self for buying 5 burner 60cm countertop stove almost every time I cook. Like Jovidah says you can only fit 2 pans on it. No place for potato&veggie pots


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