# Ragu



## Nemo (Aug 3, 2017)

Trigaaar asked (in another thread) for my recipee for ragu. I kinda hesitate to post it here because I'm not a pro chef and there are lots of pro chefs here and even a few Italian pro chefs who will undoubtedly know much more about this than me. I'll take this as an opportunity to learn from you guys.

Anyway, here is my recipee. It's my modification of one I found in a Marcella Hazan cookbook. Basically I just made it bigger and increased the proportion of vegetables. Let me know how close I am to authentic or if you have any suggestions for improving it. Or feel free to post your own. I do enjoy making it when I have the time because there's lots of knifework in the soffrito. The different ingredients in the soffrito also allow comparison between knives for various aspects of cutting ability (thinness behind edge, food release, rock chopping, etc...)

To make this quantity, you need a big stockpot.

INGREDIENTS :
Olive oil.
3 large onions, finely diced (2-3 mm dice works well for all soffrito ingredients).
1 kg carrots, finely diced.
Other finely diced veggies can be added to the soffrito (I have used zucchini, yellow button squash and eggplant with success).
1.5 kg high fat minced beef (you can substitute up to about 500g of this with minced pork).
Salt.
About 500 ml full fat milk.
Quarter to half a nutmeg, crushed or grated.
About 500 ml white wine (FWIW, I never cook with wine I wouldn't drink).
2kg fresh or canned tomatoes. Fresh is best if they are in season. Especially if you grew them.


METHOD:
This dish needs frequent stirring.
Sweat the onion over low heat in olive oil for 2-3 mins.
Add carrots, celery and remaining soffrito ingredients and cook on medium for a few minutes.
Add the meat and seperate the grains with a fork. Add the salt and cook until the meat has lost its red raw colour.
Add the milk and simmer on low heat until excess liquid has evaporated (maybe half an hour), stirring frequently.
Add the nutmeg.
Add the wine. Cook until excess liquid has evaporated. I do this on medium heat but I thik that low heat (and longer time) is more authentic. Continue frequent stirring.
Add tomatoes. Cook on low heat until excess liquid has evaporated. Continue frequent stirring. I do this on medium heat if I'm in a hurry. Marcella Hazan's recipee actually says to cook for at least 4 hours on low, adding a little water when it gets dry. This certainly gives a very rich, complex ragu but the quicker version is still pretty nice.

I usually serve with penne because my kids can get it on their fork easily. I think taglitelle may be more authentic. Apparently in Bologna, it is rarely or never served with spaghetti (despite its English language monniker). I also make lasagne with it (sometimes substituting eggplant slices fot lasagne sheets). All of these freeze well and make a quick and easy weekday meal when reheated which is very popular with the kids and contains a lot more veggies than they realise.

Before I was a knife nut, I used a food processor (hangs head in shame). Texture and flavour are much much much better when the sofritto is cut by hand.

How do you make ragu?


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 3, 2017)

Olive oil
Onion
Carrot
Celery
Garlic
Tomato paste
Pancetta
Anchovy fillets
Beef mince
Milk
Passata
White wine
Tomato sauce 
Salt & pepper
Thyme

Render pancetta in an enamelled cast iron pot and remove
I push the mince further and really brown it in the pancetta fat. Remove mince from the pan and cook the the soffrito ingredients and anchovy fillets with thyme and garlic until soft. Add and stir through tomato paste till it catches. Reincorporate meat and slowly add milk and reduce. Add white wine, cook until alcohol heat has burned off. Add passata & tablespoon of ketchup or sugar if it need balancing. Place lid on cast iron and put in 140c oven for 3 hours. Check liquid levels at each hour and top up with milk.

Again, some Italians are probably mortified, but I love it and that's how my dad made it, and hopefully it colours the same memories for my kids


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 3, 2017)

Both of you guys....what time is dinner? &#128539;

Those both sound amazing!


----------



## Nemo (Aug 3, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> Both of you guys....what time is dinner? &#128539;
> 
> Those both sound amazing!



Thanks skipper. Otto's one sounds prettty good too doesn't it?

The beauty of having ragu in the freezer is that dinner time is.... in 10 minutes


----------



## Triggaaar (Aug 3, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Trigaaar asked (in another thread) for my recipee for ragu.


Thank you Nemo! Much appreciated, I will make it.


> I kinda hesitate to post it here because I'm not a pro chef and there are lots of pro chefs here and even a few Italian pro chefs who will undoubtedly know much more about this than me.


That's a really interesting point. Even within the Pro chef's some will be better than others (some will dedicate their lives to cooking, others will just have it as a job they enjoy), so do we want a forum where only the top chefs dare to post tips etc? No. Anything someone likes will do, and like you say, you might even get the odd tip that you use to improve your meals further.

I have a couple of questions, but first let me say that I'm not a good cook (at all). My wife cooks most of the time, but she's bored of it and I'd like to do more of the cooking, so I'm wanting to learn.



> 1.5 kg high fat minced beef


I'm naturally fat averse. I understand that fat within a steak helps make it moist and helps the flavour. Even lean mince is reasonably fatty. May I ask why you go for high fat mince, does it really taste much better?



> Add carrots, celery


Celery wasn't on your list of ingredients, do you use much, and since I don't like it, anything you'd recommend in its place?

Since I'm not a good cook, I need to get better at seasoning - how much salt do you tend to use for this recipe?


> Before I was a knife nut, I used a food processor (hangs head in shame).


Shakes head.

Thank you :doublethumbsup:


----------



## Nemo (Aug 3, 2017)

Only one way to become a better cook.... Roll up your sleves and get cutting.

I say high fat mince because the recipee i was following specified it. In Australia, you can only usually get lean mince these days so I usually do make it with lean mince (I need to order high fat mince in advance) but probably use a little more olive oil in that situation. I guess you could try making a lite version and see if it suits you. I suspect that the fat content is important for the flavour but I'm not sure.

Sorry about the celery- one bunch. You can't really taste it in the finished product. If you really don't like it, use any moderately aromatic vegetable. Over summer, I had a zucchini tsunami, so I used a lot of zucchini instead on at least one occasion and it worked fine. Finely diced zucchini or eggplant will test your knife's food release . I actually named my Mizuno "zucchini slayer" in recognition of it's food release (my Tansu is even better though).

Salt is kinda to taste I guess. I suppose I use around 30-40 grinds for this recipee. I recently bought a lasagne from my butcher (they have an Italian chef who makes some pretty nice stuff) which was VERY salty in comparison. Horses for courses I guess. You can add more at the end, but it probably has a slightly different affect after the meat is cooked.

The recipee that I adapted this from uses 500g of mince and smaller amounts of veg, so you could scale the ingredients down to make a smaller batch. You will still need almost (maybe 300-400 ml) as much milk and wine, though. I find that when scaling recipees up or down, the liquid ingredients often need to be scaled to a much lesser extent, because the cooking time is often dependent on the amount of liquid.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Aug 3, 2017)

Good one Badgie-Boy! Now top of my list for recipes to try. Well thought out simple clear directions. 

Do you then cool it complete, remove the fat then reheat or does the fat emulsify into the sauce with the milk?

Passata, I had to look that one up.




Badgertooth said:


> Olive oil
> Onion
> Carrot
> Celery
> ...


----------



## Triggaaar (Aug 3, 2017)

Nemo said:


> The recipee that I adapted this from uses 500g of mince and smaller amounts of veg, so you could scale the ingredients down to make a smaller batch.


Yeah I'd like to try a small amount first, as close to your recipe as possible. Then depending how we like that, maybe trying so other ideas here before doing large batches.



> You will still need almost (maybe 300-400 ml) as much milk and wine, though. I find that when scaling recipees up or down, the liquid ingredients often need to be scaled to a much lesser extent, because the cooking time is often dependent on the amount of liquid.


Oh, I'd have had no idea, thanks.

Do you not use any Italian herbs?


Oh, we're missing some important information:
What knife are you going to use? It's all veg, so are you going to use a cleaver, nakiri, or are you a strict gyuto guy?


----------



## boomchakabowwow (Aug 3, 2017)

loving the milk and anchovie adds..nice.

i have used chopped up chicken liver in mine. just a few lobs..it is untastable, but adds something.


----------



## Rob_Sutherland (Aug 3, 2017)

The big thing as badgertooth points out is getting getting a good fond in the pot from the browning (maillard reaction if you want to get scientific). Brown = flavour. Bones also = flavour so when I do mine I always use beef neck and/or beef ribs where the meat will fall off the bones and you can just pick them out clean post cooking. Of course you don't need to use beef, boar is amazing if available and the best ragu I may have ever had was made with lamb neck. 

The sugar in the milk also browns which is why it adds so much flavour.


----------



## Rob_Sutherland (Aug 3, 2017)

The big thing as badgertooth points out is getting getting a good fond in the pot from the browning (maillard reaction if you want to get scientific). Brown = flavour. Bones also = flavour so when I do mine I always use beef neck and/or beef ribs where the meat will fall off the bones and you can just pick them out clean post cooking. Of course you don't need to use beef, boar is amazing if available and the best ragu I may have ever had was made with lamb neck. 

The sugar in the milk also browns which is why it adds so much flavour.


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 3, 2017)

Rob_Sutherland said:


> The big thing as badgertooth points out is getting getting a good fond in the pot from the browning (maillard reaction if you want to get scientific). Brown = flavour. Bones also = flavour so when I do mine I always use beef neck and/or beef ribs where the meat will fall off the bones and you can just pick them out clean post cooking. Of course you don't need to use beef, boar is amazing if available and the best ragu I may have ever had was made with lamb neck.
> 
> The sugar in the milk also browns which is why it adds so much flavour.



Exactly and it's why I cook the mince first because there is browned bits which will catch. The steam from your soffrito and your wooden spoon will dislodge and incorporate it into the cook instead of it burning. I have used bacon bones to great effect too which adds complexity to the mouthfeel because of the gelatin it release but it also resulted in me overshooting the mark on seasoning


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 3, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Good one Badgie-Boy! Now top of my list for recipes to try. Well thought out simple clear directions.
> 
> Do you then cool it complete, remove the fat then reheat or does the fat emulsify into the sauce with the milk?
> 
> Passata, I had to look that one up.



I hope it turns out well!! I tend to use leaner mince and it incorporates. Sometimes it separates and I'll remove when warming up leftovers. Worth looking for is Damageinc's recipe I saw a while back on the forum. It made me purr.


----------



## Nemo (Aug 3, 2017)

Triggaaar said:


> Yeah I'd like to try a small amount first, as close to your recipe as possible. Then depending how we like that, maybe trying so other ideas here before doing large batches.
> 
> Oh, I'd have had no idea, thanks.
> 
> ...



The recipe doesn't call for herbs and doesn't seem to miss them.

You use whichever knife you like. I like to use two for comparison because you will pretty quickly discover what each knife is good at and what its limitations are.


----------



## Nemo (Aug 3, 2017)

Rob_Sutherland said:


> The big thing as badgertooth points out is getting getting a good fond in the pot from the browning (maillard reaction if you want to get scientific). Brown = flavour. Bones also = flavour so when I do mine I always use beef neck and/or beef ribs where the meat will fall off the bones and you can just pick them out clean post cooking. Of course you don't need to use beef, boar is amazing if available and the best ragu I may have ever had was made with lamb neck.
> 
> The sugar in the milk also browns which is why it adds so much flavour.



I think the 4 plus hour simmer aims to generate maillard reactions. It is a good idea to kick start this at the start of the cook and this could potentially significantly reduce the total cooking time. I have had some success accelerating maillard reactions by transferring to a pressure cooker after adding tomatoes but it is very easy to burn it if your ragu is already almost dry when you do this.


----------



## Chef_ (Aug 3, 2017)

I dont know much about traditional italian ragu, but i make a braised oxtail ragu at my restaurant .


----------



## Triggaaar (Aug 3, 2017)

I'd like to have have a go at both Nemo & Badger's recipes.


Badgertooth said:


> Olive oil
> Onion
> Carrot
> Celery
> ...


Er, may I ask how much of each :O



> Add and stir through tomato paste till it catches.


What does 'catches' mean :O


----------



## daveb (Aug 3, 2017)

I got skooled by a Hazen fan on making what they called "Sunday Sauce" Love the stuff. Are we talking the same thing?

Key ingredient in the Sunday Sauce was a good size chunk of pork. Whenever I buy ribs I get the whole spares and then cut the chine off to make St Louis ribs and give me that chunk o pork. Rest of ingredients/technique tracks.


----------



## Nemo (Aug 3, 2017)

daveb said:


> I got skooled by a Hazen fan on making what they called "Sunday Sauce" Love the stuff. Are we talking the same thing?
> 
> Key ingredient in the Sunday Sauce was a good size chunk of pork. Whenever I buy ribs I get the whole spares and then cut the chine off to make St Louis ribs and give me that chunk o pork. Rest of ingredients/technique tracks.



Haven't seen it referred to that way but it is possible.


----------



## WildBoar (Aug 3, 2017)

that "big hunk of pork" was the way one of my grandmothers made it. But she was Hungarian, and only Italian by marriage 

The Italian grandmother used sausages and meatballs to flavor the sauce, which is how my mom made it, and the way I usually make it. I do occasionally add porchetta or some other pork to get things started, but that is not something I learned from anyone in the family. (thanks, Food Network!) Putting in a half rack of ribs, etc. can make it a bit too greasy, although the meat is tasty.


----------



## panda (Aug 4, 2017)

meat from braised pork neck bones + pancetta as well as reduced braising liquid from the bones.


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 4, 2017)

Let's try quantities but process and method is more important here. 



Badgertooth said:


> 2tbsp Olive oil
> 1 Onion
> 2 medium Carrot
> 1 large Celery stalk
> ...




Livers can be good
A bay leaf never hurts 
You can experiment with a small amount of star anise while cooking the onion as it can enhance the meatiness of the end dish but it's a fine line between enhanced meatiness and licorice
Gelatin powder is an unconventional but easy win
A few drops of fish sauce can tag in for anchovy fillets 
White and red wine are interchangeable.

"Catches" is the start of a browning process which causes the browned ingredient to stick to a hot surface. If caught to long you get burnt.


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 4, 2017)

Trigaaar, I wasn't meaning to be flippant about quantities. Just trying to point out how much more important it is to learn from the process as once you understand that this is the DNA of a nice meaty braise you can swap so many things in and out and still have something delicious if not Ragu a la bolognese. 

The blue print is:

Browned meat
Aromatics
Umami boost
Braising liquid
Low consistent heat

For example

1. Beef cheek










2. Pancetta





3. Aromatics incl leek and zucchini 





4. Tomato paste





5. Barley 





6. Meat reincorporated 






7. Stock and wine





8. Low and slow


----------



## malexthekid (Aug 4, 2017)

Ummmm... finished product Otto?

That is just mean.


----------



## Nemo (Aug 4, 2017)

Well put Otto. That really breaks it down to nice simple principles.


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 4, 2017)

Sorry mate, this was few months ago and I didn't take a photograph of the end product


----------



## Triggaaar (Aug 4, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> Let's try quantities


Thank you!


> but process and method is more important here.


Noted, thanks, but I saw some of your comments on the process and had no idea about quantities 


> A few drops of fish sauce can tag in for anchovy fillets


Mm, how about Worcestershire sauce instead 


> "Catches" is the start of a browning process which causes the browned ingredient to stick to a hot surface. If caught to long you get burnt.


Thanks 

Loving the photos in the next post, thanks!


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 4, 2017)

You can get beef cheek? Omg sounds delicious.


----------



## Nemo (Aug 4, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> You can get beef cheek? Omg sounds delicious.



It has several layers of really tough connective tissue, so it needs a long cook. But it does reward this with beautifully tender and flavoursome meat and a lovely gelatinous consistency to the braise liquid. My local butcher raises wagyu and I must say, their beef cheeks are some of the best braising cuts I have tried.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Aug 4, 2017)

Ya don't say...



Nemo said:


> My local butcher raises wagyu and I must say, their beef cheeks are some of the best braising cuts I have tried.


----------



## Rob_Sutherland (Aug 4, 2017)

daveb said:


> I got skooled by a Hazen fan on making what they called "Sunday Sauce" Love the stuff. Are we talking the same thing?
> 
> Key ingredient in the Sunday Sauce was a good size chunk of pork. Whenever I buy ribs I get the whole spares and then cut the chine off to make St Louis ribs and give me that chunk o pork. Rest of ingredients/technique tracks.



Sunday Sauce has the meat taken out and served as the second course after the pasta with sauce. Ragu is meat barely held together as a sauce. So very similar but not quite the same IMHO. Also you don't use sausage in a Ragu. 

One other thing I will say is the carrots are one of the most important parts of a good ragu. The sweetness really comes out in a long cook and Ragu is an inherently sweet sauce.


----------



## parbaked (Aug 4, 2017)

^ This
Sunday Sauce or Gravy is an Italian American thing.
It's more braised meats cooked in simple tomato sauce.
You serve the meat first, followed by pasta tossed with the tomato cooking sauce.
Our family used braciole as the meat and add sausage and meatballs 45 minutes before serving.
My grandmother, who was from outside of Naples, sometimes added pork ribs but often just braciole. 

This was traditionally cooked on Sundays. The idea is to start the braise before church and have a large family supper in the early afternoon.

The leftover meat shredded into the leftover tomato sauce make a great 'ragu' for Monday!


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Aug 4, 2017)

Nemo and Badger, Ok I just picked up some fatty brisket at the market. When you say mince, do you ground beef? Or would maybe rectangular chunks would be better? I'm going to serve it over home made hand cut pasta and tons of parsley.




Nemo said:


> Trigaaar asked (in another thread) for my recipee for ragu. I kinda hesitate to post it here because I'm not a pro chef and there are lots of pro chefs here and even a few Italian pro chefs who will undoubtedly know much more about this than me. I'll take this as an opportunity to learn from you guys.
> 
> Anyway, here is my recipee. It's my modification of one I found in a Marcella Hazan cookbook. Basically I just made it bigger and increased the proportion of vegetables. Let me know how close I am to authentic or if you have any suggestions for improving it. Or feel free to post your own. I do enjoy making it when I have the time because there's lots of knifework in the soffrito. The different ingredients in the soffrito also allow comparison between knives for various aspects of cutting ability (thinness behind edge, food release, rock chopping, etc...)
> 
> ...


----------



## parbaked (Aug 4, 2017)

A Ragu Bolognese would traditionally use ground meat, but there are countless ragu recipes that use sliced protein....especially if using something like duck or rabbit.


----------



## Nemo (Aug 4, 2017)

I use ground beef. I think ground beef is actually what is specified in the Hazan recipe. In Australia, ground meat is generally referred to as "minced meat", so that is the term that I used. Sorry for the confusion.

Finely sliced meat or meat minced with a knife would probably work but I suspect that the texture would be somewhat different.


----------



## parbaked (Aug 4, 2017)

If you cook a braising protein low and slow, and shred it when it's super tender, the texture is not that different from ground or minced, but it takes more time. The good thing is that you can choose what cut of meat or meats you're using.
To me Bolognese is minced and in other ragus the protein is cooked down and shredded...but that's just me.


----------



## malexthekid (Aug 4, 2017)

I think a brisket braised long and low till it falls apart would be an amazing ragu


----------



## malexthekid (Aug 4, 2017)

parbaked said:


> If you cook a braising protein low and slow, and shred it when it's super tender, the texture is not that different from ground or minced, but it takes more time. The good thing is that you can choose what cut of meat or meats you're using.
> To me Bolognese is minced and in other ragus the protein is cooked down and shredded...but that's just me.



To be a d!ck here... but bolognese is just a form of ragu from the bologna region... hence why quite often it is called bolognese ragu... (or is that what you were saying).

And also you can use sausage meat in a ragu... you can use any meat in it.

Heaps of options really


----------



## panda (Aug 5, 2017)

If using brisket, cook first, let it cool, then fine dice. But you def want some ground pork in there for texture and flavor.

Save any animal fat, use it to fry tomato paste.


----------



## Nemo (Aug 5, 2017)

parbaked said:


> If you cook a braising protein low and slow, and shred it when it's super tender, the texture is not that different from ground or minced, but it takes more time. The good thing is that you can choose what cut of meat or meats you're using.
> To me Bolognese is minced and in other ragus the protein is cooked down and shredded...but that's just me.



How would ypu cook the meat in this situation? Slow braise? Slow roast? Sous vide? Pressure cooker?

I'm thinking that a beef cheek or beef shin ragu done this way could be woth a try.

Some great ideas and concepts in this thread, I'm glad I started it. Thanks guys. Keep it comming.


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 5, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Nemo and Badger, Ok I just picked up some fatty brisket at the market. When you say mince, do you ground beef? Or would maybe rectangular chunks would be better? I'm going to serve it over home made hand cut pasta and tons of parsley.



I think you could quite safely dice it then flake it when it's spoon tender at the end of the braise. Parsley is excellent for lifting the finished dish


----------



## Sleep (Aug 5, 2017)

I use leftovers from work. Roast eye fillet or cube roll and pork loin. Mince, fry with plenty of oil until dry and crispy, and rehydrate with red wine.


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 5, 2017)

You know you guys are awesome BUT brisket in a ragu? My bbq smoker would divorce me.


----------



## Nemo (Aug 5, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> You know you guys are awesome BUT brisket in a ragu? My bbq smoker would divorce me.



Just don't tell it


----------



## Sleep (Aug 5, 2017)

Brisket flat deserves to go through the mincer. Save the point for smoker.


----------



## parbaked (Aug 5, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> To be a d!ck here... but bolognese is just a form of ragu from the bologna region... hence why quite often it is called bolognese ragu... (or is that what you were saying).



That is kinda what i was saying. Like most things Italian, there are regional differences.

In the North they tend to use minced meat, milk and a smaller amount of tomato, as there is much less tomato in the North. Some older recipes use only tomato paste. Ragu Bolognese is the classic example of this style.

In the South, ragu is made with whole cuts of meat braised in a tomato based sauce. They don't use milk. In this style the meat is often removed and served separately from the tomato sauce, which is served with pasta. Ragu Neapolitan is the classic example of the Southern style ragu. 

Ragu Neapolitan is the basis for the Italian American Sunday Gravy.


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 5, 2017)

Great. Now I'm craving Ragu. Know what's on the meal plan this week.


----------



## parbaked (Aug 5, 2017)

Ragu Neapolitan (Sunday Gravy) for two:







Beef shank, pork shoulder and sweet Italian pork sausage...side of salsa verde...


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Aug 5, 2017)

So I peeled the fat off the flat, large cube then mince. Cooked the Ragu four hours yesterday outside on a very low simmer, reduced 1/5? Cooled it. Going to pull it out this week for an easy weekday meal

Was a fun easy intuitive dish to make. Something different and simple.

Parbaked, now that looks like a comforting meal from by Italian grandmother. We would have had a wilted bitter green and lots of American white bread and butter. You know the rule was, you had to have a piece of bread for every pork chop. [emoji6]


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 5, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> So I peeled the fat off the flat, large cube then mince. Cooked the Ragu four hours yesterday outside on a very low simmer, reduced 1/5? Cooled it. Going to pull it out this week for an easy weekday meal
> 
> Was a fun easy intuitive dish to make. Something different and simple.
> 
> Parbaked, now that looks like a comforting meal from by Italian grandmother. We would have had a wilted bitter green and lots of American white bread and butter. You know the rule was, you had to have a piece of bread for every pork chop. [emoji6]



I reckon if I caught a flight now I'd make a midweek dinner


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 5, 2017)

When the weather turns in the northern hemisphere, try swapping out ground meat for oxtail; dropping the milk and upping the wine & tomato ratio.


----------



## Triggaaar (Aug 5, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> dropping the milk and upping the wine & tomato ratio.


Why?


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 5, 2017)

Triggaaar said:


> Why?



The oxtail has a lot of fat and colagen and gelatin, it would simply be too rich with more milk and the acid of the wine and tomato helps to cut through that


----------



## OliverNuther (Aug 5, 2017)

Mmmmm oxtail. It's ridiculous how dear it is these days.


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 8, 2017)

Even better the next day


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Aug 8, 2017)

Strengthy Capt. I haven't cracked mine yet. Giving it a little cure before serving.


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 8, 2017)

My daughter (14yo) normally does not like anything with tomato in it. She made an exception for this. Finished off all of her plate and half of mine.

Sooooo good! A nice bourbon barrel aged Zinfandel to go with it and done.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Aug 8, 2017)

Not criticizing but the next level for your daughter is to make homemade pasta. Its really not that bad if you do it in stages, don't try to roll it out by hand, fools errand for weekday meals. I make a big batch of dough, then portion in balls, freeze. Then use as needed, they defrost in a few hours too.

I'll roll the pasta sheet in advance of the meal then slice them up into wide noodles one of my fancy knifes. The mouth feel and visual plating of hand cut noodles is very special.

Better yet, ask your daughter to crank the pasta machine, then let her cut the noodles to what ever she wants. Making home made pasta with mom and DH will plant a seed deep in her psyche that she will cherish for the rest of her life. 


That is if you've got the patience to deal with kids in the kitchen ;-)


----------



## parbaked (Aug 8, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> That is if you've got the patience to deal with kids in the kitchen ;-)



Bourbon barrel aged Zinfandel should help with that....


----------



## Rob_Sutherland (Aug 8, 2017)

Sorry but what the hll is Bourbon barrel aged Zinfandel? The vast majority of Zin (like any red wine and many whites) would be barrel aged (as opposed to stainless or concrete eggs or amphora) but I don't know of any non-fortified wine that would be aged in barrels that previously held anything other than regular table wine if they were put in used barrels and not new oak.


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 8, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Not criticizing but the next level for your daughter is to make homemade pasta. Its really not that bad if you do it in stages, don't try to roll it out by hand, fools errand for weekday meals. I make a big batch of dough, then portion in balls, freeze. Then use as needed, they defrost in a few hours too.
> 
> I'll roll the pasta sheet in advance of the meal then slice them up into wide noodles one of my fancy knifes. The mouth feel and visual plating of hand cut noodles is very special.
> 
> ...



We have made home made pasta, and you're right - it's a whole nuther level. Never thought about freezing the dough. If you'd share recipe/measurements I'd appreciate it. That sounds brilliant!


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 8, 2017)

parbaked said:


> Bourbon barrel aged Zinfandel should help with that....



+1. Almost spewed coffee on my screen :biggrin:


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 8, 2017)

Rob_Sutherland said:


> Sorry but what the hll is Bourbon barrel aged Zinfandel? The vast majority of Zin (like any red wine and many whites) would be barrel aged (as opposed to stainless or concrete eggs or amphora) but I don't know of any non-fortified wine that would be aged in barrels that previously held anything other than regular table wine if they were put in used barrels and not new oak.



https://www.saratogawine.com/1000-S...cpa&utm_content=784351&utm_campaign=prodfeeds

I usually try to keep my daily drinkers at $12 a bottle or below. There was a tasting of the above at my local wine store and, this my friend, is the bottle that upped my lower limit for non special occasion wines.

The wine is aged in wood barrels that previously were used to age Bourbon. The Bourbon notes come through and blend very well with the hearty red.

Bourbon barrel aged beer is also a thing. Now I'm not a bourbon fan, but in both these cases it works.


----------



## parbaked (Aug 8, 2017)

It's a new craze in California i.e.. finishing for a few months in used whiskey barrels.

Apparently home wine makers have been doing it for a while in the US due to the abundance of whiskey barrels.

Jacob's Creek (Australia) also introduced a couple of whiskey barrel aged wines a few years back.
They're owned by Pernod Ricard, who also own Chivas and Jameson's, so lot's of used Scotch and Irish whiskey barrels.


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 9, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> My daughter (14yo) normally does not like anything with tomato in it. She made an exception for this. Finished off all of her plate and half of mine.
> 
> Sooooo good! A nice bourbon barrel aged Zinfandel to go with it and done.



This makes me happy. Did you riff on any of our interpretations?
And I can see how a heavy hitter like American zin can incorporate some of the high toned notes you'd get from a whiskey barrel. That said, a highly regarded rum cask aged beer (innis & gunn) made me want to barf.


----------



## TheCaptain (Aug 9, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> This makes me happy. Did you riff on any of our interpretations?
> And I can see how a heavy hitter like American zin can incorporate some of the high toned notes you'd get from a whiskey barrel. That said, a highly regarded rum cask aged beer (innis & gunn) made me want to barf.




Rum and beer? Sound way too sweet to me.

I have my own ragu recipe - typical finely diced onions carrots and celery cooked until soft, then add diced pancetta, ground sirloin, ground veal, and some short ribs and cook until meat is done. Throw in some tomato paste and cook until it's no longer raw then add beef broth and simmer until rib meat is falling off the bones. Pull the bones out and slowly incorporate hot whole milk in and simmer for a few hours until everyone is happy. Salt, pepper, and fresh basil and you're done.


----------

