# Shigefusa and tsukasa finish



## Barry's Knives (Jan 15, 2020)

Both tsukasa hinoura and shigefusa get a beautiful stone finish on their knives with a mirror polished steel and an incredibly matte softer iron cladding. Whilst I can get a decent kasumi finish using natural stones it is nowhere near the contrast these 2 workshops produce. I know people say shig use ohira range suita stones mainly, but is there any secret techniques people are aware of? Is length of time polishing relevant too and likewise is the stone progression important? Is it a case of mirror polishing the whole blade road and then coming back with fingerstones? Likewise, how are these effects created when the blade is not wide bevelled?

Apologies for all of the questions!!


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## Garner Harrison (Jan 15, 2020)

I may be completely wrong and I don't have a solid source so heavy pinch of salt required.

I swear I have heard Maksim say in a thread, he thinks one of the secrets behind Shigefusa's polish is making all the scratches go in the same direction.


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## Ancerill (Jan 15, 2020)

Can't exactly remember, but I think I read somewhere that because Shigefusa knives are hand cut instead of shaped by waterwheel, the finish is different. It could also be that makers have different sources for their cladding materials. Not sure about Hinoura.


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## valgard (Jan 15, 2020)

I have looked at Shig kitaeji polishes up close and I'm confident the finish on most of them on the core is not from a natural stone. I Know for sure that some of their custom orders are finished on naturals (and you can tell when looking at close ups), but the normal kasumi double bevels are not finished on stones at all (except the very edge) and the kitaeji are finished on synthetic at the core and some sort of powder mix for the cladding. 

You can somewhat keep some, or most of synthetic looking mirror on the core when transitioning to naturals by using a slow finisher and not working too long on the core, but I personally prefer the natural finish on the core steel too so I don't normally go through so much trouble.


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## ma_sha1 (Jan 16, 2020)

My Shig Ku Has Kasumi bevel & shinny core steel, but neither the contrast not the beauty comes close to my Kurosaki AS Fujin finish, which is just breath taking. Putting Shigefusa hand finish to shame.

But I think the Kurosaki bevel is either etched or bead blasted final finish, possibly both.


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## Badgertooth (Jan 16, 2020)

I’m not necessarily a 100% on this but the kasumi line is nothing much more than a fancy version of what is called a hairline finish where silicone carbide or other abrasive powder is applied with a double-handled pushing “jig” for want of a better word from handle to tip. It starts to look very different when you stone finish it or fingerstone it.


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## Badgertooth (Jan 16, 2020)

Granted this is quite patinated but it also illustrates how very different the two finishes are.

Second photo is a little better and shows my attempt at refinishing one that had been terribly neglected by its previous owner and is a hybrid hairline and stone finish. The hairline was with sandpaper and not SiC


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## Barry's Knives (Jan 16, 2020)

Badgertooth said:


> Granted this is quite patinated but it also illustrates how very different the two finishes are.
> 
> Second photo is a little better and shows my attempt at refinishing one that had been terribly neglected by its previous owner and is a hybrid hairline and stone finish. The hairline was with sandpaper and not SiC
> 
> ...


So am I right in thinking you samdpapered horizontally along the whole blade and then placed the blade road flat on the stones? Didntoubuse fingerstones?


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## Barry's Knives (Jan 16, 2020)

If anyone is interested, this is the closest I have come to gleaning anything about the shig finishes but seemingly it's all done by hand. 
https://www.japan-tool.com/hamono/Knife_Polishing/Knife_Polishing.html
From the knives I've handled it has looked to me that the blade road/edge was finished on stones to a mirror polish, but then something else was applied in a horizontal direction to create a seriously cloudy kasumi. I've seen the technique be talked about with relation to sword polishing so perhaps it has something to do with applying stone powder? If so, does anyone know how this is done? Do you simply dip a wet cloth in powder and rub?


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## Badgertooth (Jan 17, 2020)

Barry's Knives said:


> So am I right in thinking you samdpapered horizontally along the whole blade and then placed the blade road flat on the stones? Didntoubuse fingerstones?



Sort of. I don’t know that with Shigefusa’s geometry one can speak of a flat on that beautiful hamaguriba bevel so one has to gradually and evenly ride up the bevel to a point that makes sense functionally and aesthetically. The rest is handled with abrasives.


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## nutmeg (Jan 19, 2020)

I had 10-15 Shigefusa knives and like many stated above, their finish otb never looked like a Jnat finish to my eyes.
I could even say that the grind errors were sometimes so deep that I knew these knives have never seen a stone, even a synth.

On Kitaeji I find the finish looks like sand/bead blasted.
When I was in Sanjo I had the chance to make a couple of small knives with Watanabe and other masters in a black smith school. We finished the knives with a sand blaster.
A master showed me other kitaeji knives Shigefusa made in this school and finished with the same sandblaster.
I remember to find these knives very similar to the well known kitaeji serie.


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## Barry's Knives (Jan 19, 2020)

nutmeg said:


> I had 10-15 Shigefusa knives and like many stated above, their finish otb never looked like a Jnat finish to my eyes.
> I could even say that the grind errors were sometimes so deep that I knew these knives have never seen a stone, even a synth.
> 
> On Kitaeji I find the finish looks like sand/bead blasted.
> ...


Cool, thanks for the info. What's the blacksmith school? Sounds interesting


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## labor of love (Jan 19, 2020)

I feel like at some point maxim mentioned that shig core steel was finished w jns 6k.

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-6000-matukusuyama/

he either changed the wording or my memory has failed me.

Also, this doesn’t really help the OP. Lol


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## ma_sha1 (Jan 19, 2020)

Wow, I am shocked! I watched Maxim video on Shig., it’s all by hand, I had no idea.


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## CiderBear (Jan 19, 2020)

labor of love said:


> I feel like at some point maxim mentioned that shig core steel was finished w jns 6k.
> 
> https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-6000-matukusuyama/
> 
> ...



He changed his wording. I remenber the same thing


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## Barry's Knives (Jan 21, 2020)

To anyone who's interested i found the following link which shows more sharpening details at the bottom. It appears they run some sort of abrasive (stone?) Fixed on a wooden jig parallel to the cutting edge. Looking at the ku kasumi shigefusa I've seen, there has been a faint diagonal scratch pattern on the harder steel that implies a mirror finish from a bench stone. Presumably the horizontal scratches on the cladding come from this wooden jig pictured

http://www2.odn.ne.jp/mandaraya/kajikikou-shigefusa.html


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## adam92 (Jan 29, 2021)

nutmeg said:


> I had 10-15 Shigefusa knives and like many stated above, their finish otb never looked like a Jnat finish to my eyes.
> I could even say that the grind errors were sometimes so deep that I knew these knives have never seen a stone, even a synth.
> 
> On Kitaeji I find the finish looks like sand/bead blasted.
> ...


I thought all the shigefusa knife finish by natural stone, not grinding wheel & Sandblaster


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## Corradobrit1 (Jan 29, 2021)




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## jwthaparc (Feb 1, 2021)

I skipped to the end, but what I would do is polish to the highest synthetic stone you have, then use a softer natural for the cladding with a slurry, and very light pressure.


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