# Copper pots and pans in a professional kitchen...



## Mucho Bocho

Ok I'm back on my fascination with pans.

Does anybody cook with copper pots and pans anymore in professional kitchens or is I t only reserved for Michelin stared restaurants? 

If you do, do you keep them all shiny and sparkling? 

I have two Falk pots that unfortunately get minimal use. They are superior cookware but so heavy.

I've used barkeeps friend but the copper is still blemished.


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## Von blewitt

I've used small copper pots for soufflés, kept them clean with a mixture of lemon juice, white vinegar, table salt & plain flour.
I have a 3l Mauviel copper sugar pot that I use for caramels, syrups & jams, it gets an occasional polish. When I win lotto, and have my dream restaurant I'll have a lot more


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## ShaggySean

Equal parts egg white, salt, vinegar polishes amazingly


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## Mucho Bocho

Thanks Huw and Sean. The egg white salt vinegar helped a lot. Still not pristine but better


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## Mucho Bocho

Much better. Had to use a little rubber rust eraser for the in unpolishable spots


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## Zwiefel

wow....that's a huge improvement. Nice work Dennis!


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## panda

hell no, only use it for display during buffets and such, never cook with it.


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## 99Limited

You need to buy a giant bottle of Tabasco sauce. Cleans tarnished copper with no effort on your part.


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## Boondocker

At trotter's they used all copper pots. As the staggier I got to wash and polish all of them every night I was there


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## Keith Sinclair

At work did not use them, at home I'm with you Mucho like copper bottoms:cheffry:


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## mr drinky

I just bought a copper pot, so these tips will come in handy. thanks.

k.


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## Mucho Bocho

Uncooked in after salt, water, egg white.


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## 99Limited

I was thinking. Since those handles look so rustic, I don't think you'd want to clean these pans too much.


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## SameGuy

You're going for the rustic look? 

For outright shiny at an ok price I've found little beats Matfer Bistro paste on my newer Mauviel pieces and the cheap copper bowls I've been finding on Amazon. I'm sure I'd prefer more patina on Parisian _trouvailles du marché aux puces_ but for everyday cooking I love the look of shiny-like-new.


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## EdipisReks

I'm not a professional, but I have a lot of copper at home. I don't polish it.


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## SameGuy

I'm now green. With envy. Not oxidation.

I only have a big jam pan and a few egg white bowls.


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## rahimlee54

Are the jam pans worth getting over just using a dutch oven? I have been thinking about one for the last couple of seasons.


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## EdipisReks

rahimlee54 said:


> Are the jam pans worth getting over just using a dutch oven? I have been thinking about one for the last couple of seasons.



If you make a lot of jam, they are. They aren't good for anything that isn't highly sugary and low acid.


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## Mucho Bocho

Actually copper is a preferred material to whip egg whites for soufflés. I've got a 2.5 Q Mauville copper bowl for this purpose.


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## SameGuy

Note that the hand-hammered Mauviel jam pan is wide but ever so slightly convex on the bottom. Fine on gas, not perfect on (my) Ceran cooktop. No uneven heating, the copper conducts so much quicker than anything else so no worries there, but it never gets quite hot enough because the pan reacts so quickly. Every time the burner cycles, the cooking slows or speeds up _immediately_. I'm trying to find out if there's a way to fool the infinite control and thermocouple to stay on longer.


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## apathetic

Mucho Bocho said:


> Actually copper is a preferred material to whip egg whites for soufflés. I've got a 2.5 Q Mauville copper bowl for this purpose.



Do you get a noticeable difference in the egg whites consistency using the copper bowl?


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## SameGuy

Think it's worth finding and paying a local coopersmith to try to flatten the bottom of my pan? Silly me for expecting precision from a $280 hand-crafted metal piece [he says before he looks at his Masamoto KS 270 gyuto. Oh, wait...].


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## EdipisReks

Mucho Bocho said:


> Actually copper is a preferred material to whip egg whites for soufflés. I've got a 2.5 Q Mauville copper bowl for this purpose.



yeah, but that's not a jam pot.


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## SameGuy

I honestly couldn't tell you if it makes a huge difference in the final product. I've read that unlined copper "brightens" jam or helps preserve certain aspects of the fruit's flavor profiles, but I can't quantify any of that. The theory of why a jam pan is beneficial is that it is a wide, relatively shallow pan with flared sides that speeds evaporation and thus gelling, and the highly conductive copper gives super-fine temperature control. 

Alas, we bought this smooth-top range with no thought for making jams. I have NG service, but putting a gas stove in the kitchen would require major retrofitting so I will wait till we win a lotto jackpot and can gut the entire main floor of the house which will result in building my dream kitchen.


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## Lefty

I had some copper, but ended up switching to exclusively deBuyer, cast iron, and a few tri-ply pieces of Zwilling's. for ease of care, and for what I do, what I'm using now is doing the trick just fine. I wanted to like copper, but it wasn't for me. Strange, because I still love carbon steel knives, and they kind of fit into the same category, in my mind. I think I have one copper pan kicking around that I use on my grill, outside (you don't want to see the state of that pan)....

On a side note, I've been on this particular forum for three and a half years, and I'm really glad to see a member like Sameguy start coming to the forefront. For a while there, I was noticing a lot of fodder, but his posts always seem to illicit great conversation.


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## SameGuy

Thanks, Lefty!

How's "winter" so far?  Down east we've been mostly in the mid-70s until a couple of days ago, 50s and wind, back into the 70s next week...


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## GregoryIdler

Those pots look great! What a collection.


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## Casaluz

I do not cook professionally but I do cook often for family and friends and do use Falk pans often. I use bar keepers to clean them and they do not seem to need anything else. You might want to look at the Mauviel M'Cook line (with the cast iron handle) which is 5 ply and are a joy to see and use with less maintenance than the copper ones. Another alternative is De Buyer stainless steel (7 ply) for similar reasons. Both are cheaper than Falk.


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## King_Matt

Copper pans are going out of fashion now unless you do pastry. they are too expensive


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## cheflivengood

ShaggySean said:


> Equal parts egg white, salt, vinegar polishes amazingly



lus1:


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## cheflivengood

Most of the pots at one of my jobs were coppers. They really only shine (as in work better) on a french eye/ flat top. Really good for holding sauces, even if only mm or 2 is touching the edge they will hold close to boil(depending on the power of your top). The biggest downside is polishing them though, especially before photo shoots/ special guests. 2am the whole crew polishing 100 pieces of copper, stinking of vinegar haha good times.


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## WildBoar

With the strong dollar to euro exchange rate right now, those copper pots and pans from that french site are essentially on sale... :spiteful:


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## Bonertyme

some culinary schools still has copper pots.


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## Duckfat

The price of Copper seems more like a bargain than ever before. Has any one else priced decent SS cookware lately? Now THAT seems expensive! The dollar is really helping ease the pain right now as well. It looks like Brooklyn Copper is going to be up and running again soon and Falk USA ditched their previous US distributor so things are getting better there as well. Mauviel 2.5 still makes up most of my set but I also have a tin lined Mazzetti that's 3mm and hand hammered. The copper bug is almost as bad as the knife bug......almost. :surrendar:


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## lancep

About 20 years ago while traveling in Burgundy I purchased a set of 5 steel lined, copper saucepans and lids, with iron handles. Similar to the Mauviel M250 line, perhaps a tiny bit thinner, say 2mm copper vs. 2.5 for the Mauviel. At the time they were quite reasonably priced. I definitely prefer the steel lined pans, no worries about over heating or otherwise abusing a tin lining, which is expensive to have re-done.

The brand is/was Havard. I think they may have gone out of business fairly recently, as there are few web hits when googling; however, I did turn up this site, with what I would say are very attractive prices for the quality: http://www.creativecookware.com/Havard-Copper-Cookware-C634.aspx

They have a couple of the iron handled, heavier copper saucepans still for sale. The brass-handled lids, which are much less expensive than the iron handled lids, seem to be the same sizes and should fit the iron handled saucepans.

Also, today Williams Sonoma has up to 50% off copper cookware, though their site doesn't seem to be properly set up for the promotion, as it is currently not displaying the sale products nor recognizing the discount code (COPPER50) at checkout.


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## Mucho Bocho

I have a 12 saute and 3 qt sauce Falk 2.5 right in front of me on rack quietly starting me in the face. I just never grab for them. I think its the maintenance, which is really isn't much, but one more step. They cook like a dream, hard to describe. <pondering my thoughts....>

As I write this, I'm starting to fall in love again. I think I'll get them both in action tonight maybe do a simple shrimp and grits with some grilled endive topped with sautéed pancetta. 

Thanks for he inspiration to use my own pans!

MB


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## kostantinos

Mucho

I have copper pots at home and i use to use them on and off in kitchens . Usually we would reserve sauces in them.For most applications we would use all clads and cast irons .

Our rotations allowed us to have some pieces for demonstrations and table side presentations . We keep them cleaned using baking soda and water on the inside to soak them and clean them by hand 3 compartment sink. then we would clean them with thishttp://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/Product_618175?kwid=productads-plaid%5E83146369724-sku%5E618175-adType%5EPLA-device%5Ec-adid%5E48542164244

It brings them up and makes em nice removing all blemishes . Buffing rotating circle movement when cleaning them works too.
Just FYI same company makes a stainless cleaner for stainless pots that we use for all clad pots and pans and works pretty decently .You can get this in a lower price from a company like Edward Don as well.


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## Mucho Bocho

Konstantinos great to meet you at the 2015 ECG. I use that wrights cream. It's remarkable how fast it works. Going t make a mushroom risotto in the 3quart tonight server next to a chicken cordon bleu and sous vide maple syrup carrots.


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## kostantinos

I wish i had more time to stick around at the ECG.. it was great though to see the community come together .

Next time around i will plan accordingly


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## larrybard

Why would a copper pan be made with a hammered bottom, rather than smooth?
http://www.atkhandmade.com/collections/product-catalog/products/soyturkiye-copper-frying-pan


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## kostantinos

Larry

From what i remember from culinary school i recall that our teachers use to say that hammered pots and pans where suitable for gas while smooth ones where better for french tops. Now i might be wrong on that as i never really put research behind it but i do recall having hammered pots at school as we used gas more than anything .

As i remember it has to do with even heat distribution and absorption of flame . Now our professors also use to say that they don't make em like they use to back then and thats many summers back in time.


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## Keith Sinclair

Cheap copper clad pots. All my Revere Ware copper clad bought at local swap meet over the years. They made a lot of bakelite handle stainless steel copper clad bottom cookware. 

Was able to buy good condition pots with lids cheap. Some were made in Riverside Ca. & others in Clinton Ill. Have 1-qt., 2-qt., 3-qt., & a 4.5-qt. dutch oven. Take care of them use all the time, they will outlive me if don't get burned up. Did have a roommate leave one of my pots on the burner forgot it left. Lucky the house didn't burn. Amazing the bakelite handle survived the pot did not.


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## Duckfat

larrybard said:


> Why would a copper pan be made with a hammered bottom, rather than smooth?
> http://www.atkhandmade.com/collections/product-catalog/products/soyturkiye-copper-frying-pan



There may be a few reasons but this is just the way a hand made copper pot is often constructed. A sheet of copper is cut and then hammered over a mold into shape. If you look closely you will see all of the copper is hammered not just the bottom. Mazzetti pots are made this way as well. It's truly old school. That pot is also lined with Silver instead of tin. At that price it was a steal assuming the quality was decent. One thing to be aware of though is the thickness. With hammered copper the advertised thickness is typically the foil thickness when they started so often the sides are thinner than you might expect in comparison to machine pressed Copper.
Some hammered pots do have smooth bottoms but overall to me this seemed more like aesthetic preference. 

Dave


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## Adrian

Copper looks great in a pro kitchen when customers come in to meet the team. Best not to actually use it. Too heavy, too inconsistent to heat, too hard to clean, too difficult to stack. 

That said I use 2.5mm Mauviel a great deal at home and we do use copper and SS lined (also Mauviel - various i.5 and 2.5mm) in the restaurant for saucing, sugar work and also use the large saute pans sometimes. We have a shed load of pro stainless steel / hard anodised alloy KitchenAid pans (which I think are similar to All Clad - which you don't see much in the UK) and these have done the bulk of the work for the last 10 years. They appear to be indestructible. These along with De Buyer / Masterclass non-sticks (which we abuse a bit and they don't last long). Plus I absolutely love, in the restaurant and at work, some seriously heavy duty black steel sauce pans made in Germany and available through places like Manufactum. They are hand made and fantastic. Can't remember the name as the labels have worn off. Not cheap. 

I am seriously thinking of switching partially to induction at home, so the copper may get retired. I very rarely polish it anyway as I see the pans as tools not ornaments.


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## LoneWolfGang

We have tons of copper pots an pans. They are kept immaculate at all times.

Our secret? We don't use them! Ever!

Seriously ours are just for show, although it's always tempting when the pot I need is tied up


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## nutmeg

Cooper Pans give a slightly more beautiful cooler to green vegetables but it doesn't take them healthier!


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## nutmeg

Anyway I've never seen any in a Michelin Stared restaurant I worked in, the most important beeing the heat source.


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## Mucho Bocho

So the consensus is copper is a superior cooking surface but most people that own them don't use them, me included. As said, their not induction capable (so I wouldn't use them in the summer indoors), can't be put in the dishwasher and has to be polished inside and out, can be slow to heat are heavy. I wonder why I've invested $1K into them now. Guess I don't sell my 2.5 Falk because their nice shapes and when I do use them, I'm reminded at what even responsive cooking is at its best. That said, try to have a little extra patience when preheating.


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## chinacats

nutmeg said:


> Cooper Pans give a slightly more beautiful cooler to green vegetables but it doesn't take them healthier!





nutmeg said:


> Anyway I've never seen any in a Michelin Stared restaurant I worked in, the most important beeing the heat source.



Just curious if you knew about the edit button...seems multiple times lately where you have back to back posts (and this is an old thread) that could easily be just one post...our maybe you're just trying to sell a knife?


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## nutmeg

Ok sorry..

A bit of science with copper pans, from Herve This:

" KEEPING THE GREEN BEANS GREEN How can we put this knowledge to useand keep green beans green? First, we need to use very fresh beans whose chlorophylls have not been degraded from sitting out in the produce section of the market for too long. Next, we have to be careful not to cook them for too long, lest the magnesium in the chlorophyll molecules be eliminated. Similarly, we must avoid at all costs cooking them in acidic water, for acidity is synonymous with hydrogen, the mortal enemy of magnesium. In earlier times cooks used an ash detergent,made by filtering ashes and water, which yielded a potash solutionpotash being a base that neutralizes acids and therefore protects chlorophyll molecules against magnesium loss. Another classic method involved the use of a regreening tank, made of bare copper. Copper atoms detached from the surface of the tank replaced the magnesium in the chlorophyll molecules, imparting an almost fluorescent green to the vegetablesa dangerous technique, since copper is toxic. Fortunately, the practice of adding copper sulfate to the cooking water, which has the same effect, was outlawed in France in 1902."


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## Ceramik

FYI, there is an article in The WSJ today about a guy who restores copper cookware.


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## drake

I was lucky enough to use all Mauviel at a three star for about two years. They kept them polished throughout service.


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## JLaz

I worked in a one star where we used similar looking copper mauviels. Those were so good for searing steak and making batches of creamy scrambled eggs. Some copper was also used for pastry in sugar work and beating egg whites for souffle. Everything else was heavy bottomed stainless steel.

We were using French tops btw.


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