# What's good about a rounded spine?



## bwurwarg (Jul 17, 2017)

I've read a few times about rounded spines, from them coming from the smith that way as if it's a sign of quality, or people rounding the spine on stones later. What's appealing about a rounded spine - is it performance or aesthetics, or something else?


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## Nemo (Jul 17, 2017)

It doesn't feel like it's cutting into your finger after 15 mins of prep. Easy to put up with until you've experienced a rounded spine but quite hard to go back once you have.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jul 17, 2017)

For me it's about comfort however I prefer an eased as opposed to rounded spine. You'll lose some knife control and feedback if the spine doesn't have distinct shoulders.


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## TheCaptain (Jul 17, 2017)

First consideration is comfort for me. Especially since I use a pinch grip. Then it's appearance. Just looks more "polished" IMHO.


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## StonedEdge (Jul 17, 2017)

The benefits of a rounded spine are rather self-explanatory, no?


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## JaVa (Jul 17, 2017)

It's mostly about comfort. If you pinch grip your index finger will rest on the spine. A rounded spine is much more comfortable. On a long cutting session in a pro kitchen a roughly finished square spine can get even a little painful. 

Also a little bit aesthetics too. Makes the knife a more thoroughly finished product.


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## fatboylim (Jul 17, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> For me it's about comfort however I prefer an eased as opposed to rounded spine. You'll lose some knife control and feedback if the spine doesn't have distinct shoulders.



+1 for eased spine over rounded spine. 

Eased spine will still be square but with softened edges. This means comfort with a flat anchor spot for the index finger. 

A rounded spine is ovalised on the spine which is more comfortable but less of a pronounced anchor for the index finger. 

Personal preference generally.


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## K813zra (Jul 17, 2017)

It depends, for me. A fully rounded spine is needed on a laser, imo, so that it does not dig into your hand. On knives that are 2.5+mm an eased spine is fine.


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## bwurwarg (Jul 17, 2017)

StonedEdge said:


> The benefits of a rounded spine are rather self-explanatory, no?



Not if you're just getting into learning about knives and haven't experienced nice rounded edges...


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## bwurwarg (Jul 17, 2017)

fatboylim said:


> +1 for eased spine over rounded spine.
> 
> Eased spine will still be square but with softened edges. This means comfort with a flat anchor spot for the index finger.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the extra info on the softened edges.


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## Smashmasta (Jul 17, 2017)

In terms of smithing quality, it means that the smith took the extra time and effort to work in a small, but appreciated, characteristic into the knife. Because most knives are forged from flat square stock, once hammered out, the spine is usually left around the same squareness as it started (vs the highly worked edge side, obviously). The squareness can be a quick indication of quality especially if it's a cheaper knife that was stamped in a factory press where quantity and efficiency matters more over quality. A square spine isn't the end-all-be-all of quality, just a small bonus for some.


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## jessf (Jul 17, 2017)

It takes a few seconds to round a spine and a few mins more to polish it. I prefer to ease the corners but leave a flat spot so I can rest the length of my finger on the spine if i choose. Otherwise eased corners seem to do well with a pinch grip. I have noticed a lot of japanese chefs point their index fingure down the length of the blade on pull cuts. A fully rounded and polished spine can be slippery in my opinion. A choil, however, is best eased or rounded then polished. I've found no reason not to.


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## fujiyama (Jul 17, 2017)

Smashmasta said:


> In terms of smithing quality, it means that the smith took the extra time and effort to work in a small, but appreciated, characteristic into the knife.



+1

I think in most cases, a rounded / polished spine and choil are indicators they've finished each blade to the highest standards. The additional labor will cost you a little extra. Some venders (& customers) prefer to save a few bucks, while some blacksmith want to save a few minutes. 

Without a rounded spine, my left middle finger & right index finger take a beating!

I have rounded a couple of spines that were too sharp, but without a vise it is not an easy job. A nagura stone seemed to work better for me than sandpaper.


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## foody518 (Jul 17, 2017)

If you have sharp spines and haven't felt the need to round /haven't used for long enough consecutively that it's mattered to your comfort, then it doesn't really matter at the moment. For the knives I'm likely to use for longer periods of time, I at least ease the sharpest corners of the spine and choil where my fingers are, as needed


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## crockerculinary (Jul 17, 2017)

also professionals who are chopping all day with a pinch tend to develop a pretty gnarly calluses and blisters on their index finger. sharp cornered spines can make this oh so much worse and even cut into your hand.


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## RDalman (Jul 17, 2017)

crockerculinary said:


> also professionals who are chopping all day with a pinch tend to develop a pretty gnarly calluses and blisters on their index finger. sharp cornered spines can make this oh so much worse and even cut into your hand.



One of my chef customers visited me about a year back. I think he's got about 30 years in the kitchen, and since seeing his hands I make damn sure the knives are fully comfy.


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## Ruso (Jul 17, 2017)

As many said that all about the comfort. Also rounded/eased choil is important. I can dig into your middle finger otherwise.


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## DanHumphrey (Jul 17, 2017)

My Ikeda nakiri had a raw, uneased choil and it was immediately uncomfortable for even mild use, but I have no callouses there.


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## Meesterleester (Jul 17, 2017)

Nemo said:


> It doesn't feel like it's cutting into your finger after 15 mins of prep. Easy to put up with until you've experienced a rounded spine but quite hard to go back once you have.



+1 It's a whole new world


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## panda (Jul 17, 2017)

Soooo much more comfortable.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 18, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> For me it's about comfort however I prefer an eased as opposed to rounded spine. You'll lose some knife control and feedback if the spine doesn't have distinct shoulders.





I've heard a ton of feedback on this over the years and your opinion is one of the experienced chef.


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## DanDan (Jul 18, 2017)

Maybe a silly question, but does it have any affect on performance in addition to aesthetic and comfort?


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## Chef_ (Jul 18, 2017)

ask the blisters on my hand .


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## chinacats (Jul 18, 2017)

You can't easily peel a carrot with a rounded spine...I'm with Mucho


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## Customfan (Jul 18, 2017)

Nice and rounded for me, much more comfy, no noticeable loss of control...


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## ThEoRy (Jul 18, 2017)

Round please. Lose knife control? That's like losing control of your hand. I can't even remember my hand without a knife in it.


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## bwurwarg (Jul 19, 2017)

Thanks for all the input so far; very informative. So the next question is how does one go about rounding or smoothing out the spine? Stones?


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## StonedEdge (Jul 19, 2017)

bwurwarg said:


> Thanks for all the input so far; very informative. So the next question is how does one go about rounding or smoothing out the spine? Stones?



If you search there are some fairly extensive threads about different techniques and processes. Most involve files and sandpaper


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## Benuser (Jul 19, 2017)

Sure, but stones can be very effective as well.


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## panda (Jul 19, 2017)

Less control and feedback due to roundedness? Nah, rounder the better.


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## Mrmnms (Jul 19, 2017)

How many guys have cut their hands on a non rounded spine? All the reason I ever needed.


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## K813zra (Jul 19, 2017)

Mrmnms said:


> How many guys have cut their hands on a non rounded spine? All the reason I ever needed.



Cut their hand on the spine? I don't think I own a knife with a spine that sharp.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jul 19, 2017)

What's been said is the truth. Rounded spines is cool for super thin lasery knives but a rounded spine on a 4+ mm spine is nonsense.


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## foody518 (Jul 19, 2017)

K813zra said:


> Cut their hand on the spine? I don't think I own a knife with a spine that sharp.



Broke skin in 2-3 hours straight use of Tojiro DP. Then the next thing I did was ease the spine and thin it


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## K813zra (Jul 19, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Broke skin in 2-3 hours straight use of Tojiro DP. Then the next thing I did was ease the spine and thin it



Interesting. I guess it comes from having never used a knife in the kitchen for hours on end. 30 minutes of prep is a lot of me let alone 3 hours! Is that actually a cut or a broken blister, though? Curious. I was thinking, reach for the knife and cut yourself sort of thing. :rofl2:


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## fujiyama (Jul 19, 2017)

I've bled from the spine of a knife a few times. On guide knuckles from chopping.. from continuous use.

Also my inner index finger has a callus (from knives).. sometimes the spine will open this up.

Overall, the comfort of the spine is a big deal for a professional .


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## Nemo (Jul 20, 2017)

fujiyama said:


> Overall, the comfort of the spine is a big deal for a professional .



And for an amateur once you are used to it


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## ThEoRy (Jul 20, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> a rounded spine on a 4+ mm spine is nonsense.



0 for 2 Mucho. Do you even knife bro? :lol2: My Tojiro Yo Deba and I disagree with you. When you have to split, crack and shell 24 cases of lobsters in one night you really wish that you had rounded that spine. 

[video=youtube;VleV5O0pVgc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VleV5O0pVgc&t=8s[/video]


After the massacre that night my calluses were basically ripped off of my finger. It's the very reason I rounded that spine. 


Here's a less extreme example. 6 cases of whole chickens broken down with the bones left in for fried chicken dinner. 

[video=youtube;urIeUid1TMo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urIeUid1TMo&t=57s[/video]

Yeah, shoulda rounded that spine prior but at that time I didn't have a belt grinder. I think if there's a pattern here it's that there's a heavier knife being used with more force and impact. Why would you want a sharp corner digging into your finger with high impact repeatedly? I ended up borrowing a dremel tool and grinding down the corners. I did a **** job and I even slipped off the spine and scarred the blade face but it didn't matter. I never had to deal with that ever again. Long ago I had since fully rounded that spine and scotch brite belt polished the face and installed a coke bottle handle.



























Now THAT'S a comfortable knife.


Never had a problem with that knife again. In fact it is probably one of the most comfortable knives I've used. Most likely because when you place force or pressure on a small surface area especially thin or angled surfaces the impact is greater than when you distribute that force amongst a larger surface area especially a smooth or rounded one.


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## labor of love (Jul 20, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> 0 for 2 Mucho. Do you even knife bro? :lol2: My Tojiro Yo Deba and I disagree with you. When you have to split, crack and shell 24 cases of lobsters in one night you really wish that you had rounded that spine.
> 
> [video=youtube;VleV5O0pVgc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VleV5O0pVgc&t=8s[/video]
> 
> ...



Nice looking kato! &#128512;


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## richard (Jul 20, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Broke skin in 2-3 hours straight use of Tojiro DP. Then the next thing I did was ease the spine and thin it



Yes the spine on Tojiro is one of the sharpest I've come across. Definitely needs improvement even for home user, let alone pro use.

Also +1 foreased shoulders over fully rounded IMHO.


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## ThEoRy (Jul 20, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Nice looking kato! &#128512;



Are Kato really that thick? This Tojiro DP Yo Gyuto is about 5mm. Surely you jest.


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## panda (Jul 20, 2017)

theory i want to send you all my knives for rounding work, lol.


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## labor of love (Jul 20, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> Are Kato really that thick? This Tojiro DP Yo Gyuto is about 5mm. Surely you jest.



http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/yoshiaki-fujiwara-240mm-gyuto-chestnut/


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## ThEoRy (Jul 20, 2017)

labor of love said:


> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/yoshiaki-fujiwara-240mm-gyuto-chestnut/


Wow, 6mm. That is pretty thick for a Gyuto. I'm sure it cuts better than my Tojiro Yo Deba though based on geometry. I don't know that I would like to use a knife like that all day long however.


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## RDalman (Jul 20, 2017)

I made a little video on how I would do it without powertools. Instead of going through loads of sandpaper. Maybe it's useful for someone.

https://youtu.be/1XO3_MKUxbU


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## Mucho Bocho (Jul 20, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> 0 for 2 Mucho. Do you even knife bro? :lol2: My Tojiro Yo Deba and I disagree with you. When you have to split, crack and shell 24 cases of lobsters in one night you really wish that you had rounded that spine.
> when you place force or pressure on a small surface area especially thin or angled surfaces the impact is greater than when you distribute that force amongst a larger surface area especially a smooth or rounded one.



Rick, HA, I didn't know we were keeping score. First off, if you believe that a knife is more comfortable with a fully rounded spine, I have not reason to doubt you. You spend more time with your knives in one day that I do in a month, and your knife skills have always been a reference for me.

That said, As a home cook I may only use my Deba to cut only one fish, very methodically mind you. I prefer to have a platform with distinct shoulders to use as reference for my eye/finger to control the knife, especially when I can't see the blade. I also feel that a flatter slightly eased spine distributes the pressure from skin on metal more. Also, we could be splitting hairs as the was we define "Rounded" vs "Eased." 

Oh Robin, Your spines are silky, sexy and curvaceous, you must have made my knives female. HA


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## StonedEdge (Jul 20, 2017)

I had to round the choil of my Tojiro DP yo-deba out of necessity, it was so sharp that one slip downward from the handle and you'd slice yourself on the choil.


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## Don Nguyen (Jul 20, 2017)

Rounded spine for life.


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## ThEoRy (Jul 20, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Rick, HA, I didn't know we were keeping score. First off, if you believe that a knife is more comfortable with a fully rounded spine, I have not reason to doubt you. You spend more time with your knives in one day that I do in a month, and your knife skills have always been a reference for me.
> 
> That said, As a home cook I may only use my Deba to cut only one fish, very methodically mind you. I prefer to have a platform with distinct shoulders to use as reference for my eye/finger to control the knife, especially when I can't see the blade. I also feel that a flatter slightly eased spine distributes the pressure from skin on metal more. Also, we could be splitting hairs as the was we define "Rounded" vs "Eased."
> 
> Oh Robin, Your spines are silky, sexy and curvaceous, you must have made my knives female. HA



Deba is different. I hold that with a pointed grip so I agree in this case eased is better than rounded.


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## K813zra (Jul 20, 2017)

I still think that as a home cook a rounded spine, for me anyway, is not needed. Eased, for sure, but fully rounded maybe not so much. I can see how it would be required for those of you who beat the hell out of your hands on a daily basis, though. I round my spines when I get new knives anyway so it is a moot point, in my case.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 20, 2017)

Over the years I've got so much conflicting feedback on this subject that it's crazy. Some people claim that eased is too rounded and others consider super rounded not rounded enough - can't make anyone happy. :dazed:


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## Dave Martell (Jul 20, 2017)

And I forgot to mention the pros who like to use the forward part of the knife for scraping so they want rounded/eased near the handle but not near the tip. :dontknow:


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## panda (Jul 20, 2017)

Just offer Different trim levels &#128513;


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## Nemo (Jul 20, 2017)

Dave Martell said:


> Over the years I've got so much conflicting feedback on this subject that it's crazy. Some people claim that eased is too rounded and others consider super rounded not rounded enough - can't make anyone happy. :dazed:



Repectfully disagree with your last point Dave. You can and do make lots of people happy


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## chefcomesback (Jul 20, 2017)

I prefer mirror polished spines and choils


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## Cashn (Jul 20, 2017)

I've ripped the callous off of my pointer finger from a spine that's uneased. That was after slicing 100lbs of BBQ brisket. Funny thing is I'm in the group that doesn't like a "rounded" spine. The little bit of edge that digs into the base of my pointer finger feels right. Comfortable might be too strong of a word but the way a tight fitting pair of cleats feels good once your used to it.


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## Nemo (Jul 20, 2017)

chefcomesback said:


> I prefer mirror polished spines and choils



I very much like your mirror polished spines and choils too Mert


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## Benuser (Jul 20, 2017)

I only want the right side somewhat eased.


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## ThEoRy (Jul 20, 2017)

Dave Martell said:


> And I forgot to mention the pros who like to use the forward part of the knife for scraping so they want rounded/eased near the handle but not near the tip. :dontknow:



I round a lot of spines for all of my employees and acquaintances but I never do near the tip. Everyone asks me when I give them their knife, "Hey why didn't you round it up here?" I tell them, "It's because I'm going to grind that part down anyway when you break the tip off." They always laugh but I'm like, "No seriously, I'll have to grind that off."


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## labor of love (Jul 20, 2017)

Yeah I don't see a functional reason to round the spine from handle to tip. Still, it just looks nice so I like it nevertheless.


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## panda (Jul 20, 2017)

leaving the tip spine sharp gives you better feels and precision tho!


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## Dave Martell (Jul 21, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> I round a lot of spines for all of my employees and acquaintances but I never do near the tip. Everyone asks me when I give them their knife, "Hey why didn't you round it up here?" I tell them, "It's because I'm going to grind that part down anyway when you break the tip off." They always laugh but I'm like, "No seriously, I'll have to grind that off."




That's a good one, I'll have to remember that.


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## labor of love (Jul 21, 2017)

panda said:


> leaving the tip spine sharp gives you better feels and precision tho!



Oh.


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## Customfan (Jul 21, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> I round a lot of spines for all of my employees and acquaintances but I never do near the tip. Everyone asks me when I give them their knife, "Hey why didn't you round it up here?" I tell them, "It's because I'm going to grind that part down anyway when you break the tip off." They always laugh but I'm like, "No seriously, I'll have to grind that off."



&#128518;&#129300;&#128517;


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## Chef_ (Jul 21, 2017)

As long as its not square edge.

I think the Rounded spine vs Eased spine debate is kind of like wine tasting experts, a bunch of ********


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## Mucho Bocho (Jul 21, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> As long as its not square edge.
> 
> I think the Rounded spine vs Eased spine debate is kind of like wine tasting experts, a bunch of ********



From someone that doesn't drink wine...


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## Chef_ (Jul 21, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> From someone that doesn't drink wine...



Its all subjective, the label and price tag influences your taste buds.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jul 22, 2017)

Again, from someone that doesn't drink wine.


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## malexthekid (Jul 22, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Its all subjective, the label and price tag influences your taste buds.



Yeah like totally that $2 bottle is just as good as that $35 bottle....


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## Ruso (Jul 22, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Yeah like totally that $2 bottle is just as good as that $35 bottle....



$2 a bottle? Wow; I want some of it. Nothing cheaper than $7-8 here.


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