# Takamura R2 vs VG10



## mayong (Apr 17, 2020)

After trying out my Takamura 210 R2 (red handle) gyuto, my girlfriend wants to get the 165 R2 santoku for her father as a present. She was floored by the slicing performance and wants him to experience the same thing. 

But I hesitate to gift this knife because the edge is so thin and the R2 relatively brittle. I'm wondering if the 165 VG10 (black handle) santoku has similar geometry and would perform close to the red handle version, edge retention aside, and might make a better gift not knowing exactly how, or on what kind of board, her dad cuts.

Anybody have experience with both of these current Takamura lines?


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## bahamaroot (Apr 17, 2020)

I would just get him the R2 and caution him to take it easy at first until you know more about his usage and he gets a feel for it. Most J-knives aren't as delicate as their reputations would suggest. And there are MANY different makers out there in many different steels that perform just as well as the Takamura.


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## refcast (Apr 17, 2020)

The ginga has a mostly similar grind, but the steel is supposed to be a good bit tougher. They do have western handled stainless i think at carbonknifeco.


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## slickmamba (Apr 17, 2020)

Maybe get something that is thin in a less fragile steel. How about a fujiwara fkm? The geometry isn't nearly as thin or nicely convexed, but could be a nice introduction until hes ready for the r2


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## ryanjams (Apr 17, 2020)

Can’t speak to the vg10. Takamura chromax should be marginally tougher without too much performance sacrifice, if any. Little cheaper as well. I helped my old boss upgrade from his shuns, he’s not the pinnacle of good technique but it’s held up nicely.

Tanaka vg10 in either Damascus or nashiji can be had even cheaper if you dig around. Those are my go to in this scenario. Both thin enough, the Damascus a little more so. Great performers and affordable enough not to fret over. I think 330 mate still has them for about the cheapest around, if you don’t mind a little wait time. Stuff has always showed up for me. Get yourselves a little 150 petty while you’re at it, best small beater knife around imo.


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## zizirex (Apr 17, 2020)

mayong said:


> After trying out my Takamura 210 R2 (red handle) gyuto, my girlfriend wants to get the 165 R2 santoku for her father as a present. She was floored by the slicing performance and wants him to experience the same thing.
> 
> But I hesitate to gift this knife because the edge is so thin and the R2 relatively brittle. I'm wondering if the 165 VG10 (black handle) santoku has similar geometry and would perform close to the red handle version, edge retention aside, and might make a better gift not knowing exactly how, or on what kind of board, her dad cuts.
> 
> Anybody have experience with both of these current Takamura lines?


all Takamura non-pro line have the same grind. I have all VG10, SG2 and Chromax. the only difference is the edge retention, finish and handle colour.


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## Simme (Apr 18, 2020)

Get the r2, it was my first j-knife and I had some problems with microchipping, after a couple of sharpenings the microchipping stopped. 
You could give the knife a microbevel before giving it away.


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## Midsummer (Apr 18, 2020)

I gave an R2 to my sisters (along with a bunch of other knives over the years). One tried to cut some frozen food and took a MACRO chip out of it. It was like 2cm long and 1cm into the blade at the apex. I did not grind it down to be a slicer.
I gave another to a cousin who tipped it pretty well. I was able to fix that one. Using the knife in the proper way there should be no issues. If the old man is educable; then you definitely should educate him before he ruins it.


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## DainBramage1 (Apr 18, 2020)

Midsummer said:


> If the old man is educable; then you definitely should educate him before he ruins it.


This brings up the question in my mind… who is going to maintain this knife? If you’re in the same city, the OP could, but maybe including a pre-loaded strop (and some instruction on how and why to use it) would help keep it performing well between sharpenings.


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## mayong (Apr 19, 2020)

Lots of good tips, thanks guys. The Fujiwara and Tanaka are both great budget alternatives that I hadn’t considered. We definitely want to keep the price close to, or below, $150. Also thanks zizirex for sharing exactly the experience I hoped someone could.

Re: maintenance, her dad will be taking care of it, not me, as we live in different states. I think we’ll include a ceramic rod too, just to ward off the Gordon Ramsay.


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## bahamaroot (Apr 19, 2020)

Midsummer said:


> I gave an R2 to my sisters (along with a bunch of other knives over the years). One tried to cut some frozen food and took a MACRO chip out of it. It was like 2cm long and 1cm into the blade at the apex...


This sort of action will damage nearly any knife. This was caused by abuse and not representative of the knife's or steels true toughness. In normal everyday use this is not something you would have to worry about.


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## Chicagohawkie (Apr 19, 2020)

Fwiw, my Tak R2 gyuto is easily my most used knife. It’s a total workhorse and nothing I’ve done to it or anyone else for that matter has put a dent in it. Maybe I’ve been lucky, but I find these knives nearly idiot proof. Best one and done I’ve ever encountered. If they only made a 240........


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## Simme (Apr 19, 2020)

That 240/+50 mm takamura is what dreams are made of.
It is next to impossible to find the proline in EU. And the price hike makes it a tough choice.


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## M1k3 (Apr 19, 2020)

Simme said:


> That 240/+50 mm takamura is what dreams are made of.
> It is next to impossible to find the proline in EU. And the price hike makes it a tough choice.



For me a 240mm Pro is one of the knives on my bucket list.


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## aboynamedsuita (Apr 19, 2020)

zizirex said:


> all Takamura non-pro line have the same grind. I have all VG10, SG2 and Chromax. the only difference is the edge retention, finish and handle colour.


I’d have to agree, i have the petty in vg10.


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## zizirex (Apr 19, 2020)

aboynamedsuita said:


> I’d have to agree, i have the petty in vg10.
> 
> View attachment 77530


How about the pro-line? the grind is it different? if I remember it has a slightly thicker spine


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## Midsummer (Apr 19, 2020)

mayong said:


> After trying out my Takamura 210 R2 (red handle) gyuto, my girlfriend wants to get the 165 R2 santoku for her father as a present. She was floored by the slicing performance and wants him to experience the same thing.
> 
> But I hesitate to gift this knife because the edge is so thin and the R2 relatively brittle. I'm wondering if the 165 VG10 (black handle) santoku has similar geometry and would perform close to the red handle version, edge retention aside, and might make a better gift not knowing exactly how, or on what kind of board, her dad cuts.
> 
> Anybody have experience with both of these current Takamura lines?






bahamaroot said:


> This sort of action will damage nearly any knife. This was caused by abuse and not representative of the knife's or steels true toughness. In normal everyday use this is not something you would have to worry about.



Since this thread is about getting a knife for someone unaccustomed to J-knifes it seemed an appropriate story. 

My sister had done the same with Henkles and other european and lower HRC blades in the past without consequences. 

I suggested that he educate the father about the proper use.

Do you have an objection or are you merely seconding my point?


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## dafox (Apr 19, 2020)

aboynamedsuita said:


> I’d have to agree, i have the petty in vg10.
> 
> View attachment 77530


In use, what does the pro offer that the red handled does not? Other than looks, aesthetics, what do the vg 10 and Chromax offer over the Red handled? Do they all perform the same? How would you rank the edge retention among the steels?Thanks!


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## krx927 (Apr 20, 2020)

I would not say that R2 is chippy knife, quite the opposite compared to all other J knives I own. It's pretty bullet proof if you do not abuse it. juts explain to her what is acceptable use for J knife and what not.


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## bahamaroot (Apr 20, 2020)

Midsummer said:


> ...My sister had done the same with Henkles and other european and lower HRC blades in the past without consequences...


Cutting frozen food with any knife is abuse even with a Henckels. If you cut frozen food with a Henckels you are going to blunt or roll the edge badly and it will be noticeable unless the knife had already been abused or not sharpened in ten years. In that case you won't notice any consequences.


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## Chicagohawkie (Apr 20, 2020)

dafox said:


> In use, what does the pro offer that the red handled does not? Other than looks, aesthetics, what do the vg 10 and Chromax offer over the Red handled? Do they all perform the same? How would you rank the edge retention among the steels?Thanks!


Pro is a tad thicker, but also twice the price. price/performance valuation favors the red handle in my opinion.


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## M1k3 (Apr 20, 2020)

Unless you want a Takamura in 240mm


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## jferreir (Apr 20, 2020)

I own the R2 and Pro, and gifted the VG10. The VG10 was a tad heftier than the R2/red handle (in a good way), but had the same thin grind. The initial edge is a bit delicate (on all of them), but perfectly fine/resilient after the first sharpening. The 240mm Pro is _much_ heftier than the R2/red -- thicker spine with full tang, and feels similar to a 9" Henckels. The finishing is a bit more polished on the Pro as well. If I had to do it again, I'd probably still gift the VG10 -- better weight/feel for the average user, and will likely be steps above what they currently use.


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## Midsummer (Apr 20, 2020)

bahamaroot said:


> Cutting frozen food with any knife is abuse even with a Henckels. If you cut frozen food with a Henckels you are going to blunt or roll the edge badly and it will be noticeable unless the knife had already been abused or not sharpened in ten years. In that case you won't notice any consequences.



There is no way to win when someone decides to become a troll. Out and ignore.


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## bahamaroot (Apr 20, 2020)

Midsummer said:


> There is no way to win when someone decides to become a troll. Out and ignore.


Ah, my feelings are hurt....not. Can't handle honest debate, your problem.


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## mayong (Apr 21, 2020)

Midsummer said:


> I gave an R2 to my sisters (along with a bunch of other knives over the years). One tried to cut some frozen food and took a MACRO chip out of it. It was like 2cm long and 1cm into the blade at the apex. I did not grind it down to be a slicer.





bahamaroot said:


> This sort of action will damage nearly any knife. This was caused by abuse and not representative of the knife's or steels true toughness. In normal everyday use this is not something you would have to worry about.



I read this as the Tak is more prone to catastrophic failure if abused; a Henckels might roll while the Takamura explodes. We'll definitely be cautioning him about use and care. He's a woodworker so he appreciates a good edge and proper tool maintenance.


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## Ceriano (Jul 4, 2020)

aboynamedsuita said:


> I’d have to agree, i have the petty in vg10.
> 
> View attachment 77530



how do you compare R2 and chromax? Which one is your favorite? I’m in the market for a 210mm gyuto and trying to decide between the two.


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## Nagakin (Jul 4, 2020)

R2 is better on the ceramic rod than VG10 ime. I don't know why, but it just responds very well.


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## nexus1935 (Jul 4, 2020)

I think regardless of VG10 or R2, you'll have to educate on how to use the knife properly while gifting. The span between German knives to Japanese knives is much greater than the difference between VG10 to R2 (meaning if he can handle VG10 properly, the R2 will be fine as well). So in that case, I'd suggest just to get the R2 that you've had the great experience with.


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## Benuser (Jul 5, 2020)

If her father isn't used to those very thin geometries and hard steels, a Misono 440 might be worth to have a look at.


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