# I need help with my project.



## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

So I have this fiskars knife which hasnt been treated very well. I could toss it, or try to give it a seccond life.
So i came up with a japanese-ish design for the blade. Was going to dremel some steel.away and buy a 20,- handle from china and epoxy it in.
I have never made or worked on a blade before. Also i know very little about japanese knives.
So i made a plastic mockup of how the knife should look, and it kinda sucks to hold it in my hand. It doesnt seem like it will be good with rocking, or pushcutting. I dont really know what kind of knife it is supposed to be, i hope to get some inspiration and good ideas from you.
Can you look at my design if you can see what i can change to make it useful?
I will attach a picture of how it started as a fiskars knife, how the blade looks now, my concept on paper, and my plastic mockup.


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## daveb (Sep 13, 2020)

Fiskar makes some good gardening tools. But....

Unless you're into this for DIY satisfaction (and nothing wrong with that) I suggest chuck this thing in a bin and buy a knife. Vnox and Wustie Pro offer inexpensive yet solid entry level knives between 30 - 50. Or you can get into entry level Japanese for about 100.


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## IsoJ (Sep 13, 2020)

+ Those Fiskars are among the worst steels to sharpen, dont get sharp and dont hold edge.


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## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

daveb said:


> Fiskar makes some good gardening tools. But....
> 
> Unless you're into this for DIY satisfaction (and nothing wrong with that) I suggest chuck this thing in a bin and buy a knife. Vnox and Wustie Pro offer inexpensive yet solid entry level knives between 30 - 50. Or you can get into entry level Japanese for about 100.


I see it as an opportinity to finaly work on a blade. If i screw up its not the end of the world..
Also this is my first ever 'chefs' knife which i got for my birthday, over 10 years ago. I rather not toss it if i can save it.


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## cotedupy (Sep 13, 2020)

Looks slightly tricky because of the shape and angle of the initial tang, meaning that when you cut a proper tang the knife ends up being much to tall at the heel. 

I'd have thought you'll have to take a lot of the height off at the heel and re-grind, to make a kind of bunka/petty type affair...


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## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

cotedupy said:


> Looks slightly tricky because of the shape and angle of the initial tang, meaning that when you cut a proper tang the knife ends up being much to tall at the heel.
> 
> I'd have thought you'll have to take a lot of the height off at the heel and re-grind, to make a kind of bunka/petty type affair...




Something like this?


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## cotedupy (Sep 13, 2020)

DutchCook said:


> Something like this?
> View attachment 94455



Yep! More that kind of profile would be better I imagine. (I am no expert here btw, just my thoughts).


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## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

cotedupy said:


> Yep! More that kind of profile would be better I imagine. (I am no expert here btw, just my thoughts).


Thank you for tge suggestion. It seems like a good idea to me.
Before i do anything i would like to see if anyone else has other suggestions.


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## kbright (Sep 13, 2020)

I recommend that you consider this to be a practice project. Don't expect this to be your favorite go-to knife in the kitchen. 
Meanwhile, get a good piece of knife steel, and design a knife style that you want and need. Maybe your follow-on knife will be a daily user. There is real satisfaction in using a knife that you made.


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## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

kbright said:


> I recommend that you consider this to be a practice project. Don't expect this to be your favorite go-to knife in the kitchen.
> Meanwhile, get a good piece of knife steel, and design a knife style that you want and need. Maybe your follow-on knife will be a daily user. There is real satisfaction in using a knife that you made.




Do you say that because of the steel or because of the design?


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## daveb (Sep 13, 2020)

For this project the steel will be one of the limiting factors. It's crap and is going to be crap regardless of whatever you do. Too soft, not treated / tempered. 

If the goal is to have a project then it will be a learning experience and worth the time/resources. If the goal is to have a knife, you're not going to get there.


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## kbright (Sep 13, 2020)

I like the design, but the short tang is difficult to overcome. For all the blood, sweat, and tears that you will spend on this project, the steel is not worthy. I believe the Fiskars blade has a hardness of about HRC 54. That will not hold an edge well.


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## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

kbright said:


> I like the design, but the short tang is difficult to overcome. For all the blood, sweat, and tears that you will spend on this project, the steel is not worthy. I believe the Fiskars blade has a hardness of about HRC 54. That will not hold an edge well.



You think i could harden it without a proper furnace?
Ive seen people do that with a blowtorch, or a bbq with a blower beneath it, before dipping it in oil.


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## kbright (Sep 13, 2020)

Maybe if it was a carbon steel blade, but this is stainless. Hardening stainless steel needs precision temperature control.


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## kbright (Sep 13, 2020)

A good knife project might be to buy a knife blade blank, and design and add your own handle. 
Here is one source near you: BRISA Japanese cutlery blades


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## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

kbright said:


> Maybe if it was a carbon steel blade, but this is stainless. Hardening stainless steel needs precision temperature control.



Oke, so i think this is what i will do. Im not going to expect much of the steel, but i still want to make it the best knife design that it can be, and try to learn from this project.

So because of the soft steel it should be an easy job for a dremel 4000, dont you think?

If you have any suggestions or considerations about the design i would gladly read it


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## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

kbright said:


> A good knife project might be to buy a knife blade blank, and design and add your own handle.
> Here is one source near you: BRISA Japanese cutlery blades


Nice blades, but expensive stuff. I still have a Global chefs knife on my wishlist which costs about the same.


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## kbright (Sep 13, 2020)

I like the blade profile design in post #6. Decide how long the edge should be flat from the heel. Try to add a convex edge when you sharpen it. This blade probably does not need thinning. You can look up these terms in the forums.


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## FishmanDE (Sep 13, 2020)

what he^ said. Also, don't get discouraged because its not good steel. I understand the sentimentality. My first knife wasn't very good either, but i still kept it.


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## kbright (Sep 13, 2020)

Your Fiskars blade is about as hard as the old Sabatier chef's knife blades. So it's very usable. You will just need to sharpen it occasionally. 
A Dremel tool is helpful, since you don't need to grind bevels, Files and sandpaper will cut well too.


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## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

FishmanDE said:


> what he^ said. Also, don't get discouraged because its not good steel. I understand the sentimentality. My first knife wasn't very good either, but i still kept it.


Thank you. 
What type and brand is your first knife?


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## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

kbright said:


> Your Fiskars blade is about as hard as the old Sabatier chef's knife blades. So it's very usable. You will just need to sharpen it occasionally.
> A Dremel tool is helpful, since you don't need to grind bevels, Files and sandpaper will cut well too.


I cut away on my mockup knife like the drawing from post 6.
That was way too much to take off. It sucks even more now. My fingers prevent it from making contact with the board now. I think the trimming should be much more subtle.
Im making a new mockup and try again. Also i think i can make the blade just about 2mm or 3mm longer. I think that wil help


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## Benuser (Sep 13, 2020)

DutchCook said:


> Nice blades, but expensive stuff. I still have a Global chefs knife on my wishlist which costs about the same.


Stay away from Globals. The G-2 has a nice profile, but the steel is mediocre. Large carbides, clustering, problematic sharpening, the only soft steel I know where you are to expect chipping to occur. For the same money you can get much better.


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## DutchCook (Sep 13, 2020)

Benuser said:


> Stay away from Globals. The G-2 has a nice profile, but the steel is mediocre. Large carbides, clustering, problematic sharpening, the only soft steel I know where you are to expect chipping to occur. For the same money you can get much better.



Wow. I never knew. Heard so much good about global from some chefs.
What should i look for in a japanese knife, if i have like 150usd to spend?
I would look for a complete knife, not just a blade. Any brands i should look for?


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## daveb (Sep 13, 2020)

The Kaeru line from JNS is a great bang for the buck knife.

The Wa Stainless is another I like but only retailed in the states.


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## Benuser (Sep 13, 2020)

You best open a new thread with this questionnaire:





The "Which Knife Should I Buy?" Questionnaire - v2


Please refer to the Kitchen Knife Knowledge subforum and the Kitchen Knife Glossary thread (LINK) for general information, including the knife types and other terminology used in this questionnaire. LOCATION What country are you in?  KNIFE TYPE What type of knife are you interested in...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com




Please be aware that prices in Europe are much higher than in the US where most members live. Import into the EU means local VAT, import tax, handling costs and shipping costs. 
If you're looking for a decent stainless chef's knife with a Western handle, you may consider the Misono 440 series. 
I bought most of my knives with JCK, japanesechefsknife.com 
and had luck with the customs. 
For local retailers of Misono check misono.nl
For sharpening stones have a look at 
knivesandtools.nl


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## FishmanDE (Sep 13, 2020)

DutchCook said:


> Thank you.
> What type and brand is your first knife?



Zwilling.



DutchCook said:


> Wow. I never knew. Heard so much good about global from some chefs.
> What should i look for in a japanese knife, if i have like 150usd to spend?
> I would look for a complete knife, not just a blade. Any brands i should look for?



You can get a very good knife for that price range. Which one you buy depends on what your using it for, how often, and how knife savvy you are. Tojiro is a great entry knife and mid range for you budget.


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## DutchCook (Sep 14, 2020)

I made a new mockup blade. Its about 4mm longer (174mm blade) than the first mockup and only 1mm was trimmed from the belly, giving it a 60mm flat edge at the back of the blade. It feels pretty good in the hand now, can rock and pushcut. And it chops too!
I also made the dropped point more rounded off than flat. What do you think?


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## Benuser (Sep 14, 2020)

Like the tip who isn't as low as with most santokus, leading to damage if used for anything else than push cutting. At least, that's what I see when sharpening for others. I guess with very little work you may change the deadly flat section in a continuous arc from tip to heel. No rock-chopper here, but isn't it that deadly flat section causing the abrubt feeling with the typical sound of people rock-chopping with good old Sabs — they aren't made for?


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## MarcelNL (Sep 14, 2020)

Benuser said:


> Stay away from Globals. The G-2 has a nice profile, but the steel is mediocre. Large carbides, clustering, problematic sharpening, the only soft steel I know where you are to expect chipping to occur. For the same money you can get much better.



Long time G2 user (approx 20 years, as home cook), I totally agree with the qualities of the steel.


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## kbright (Sep 14, 2020)

I like your latest mock up. I recommend that you try to line up the handle with the spine so it looks straight along the top. If you have enough finger clearance from a cutting board.


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## DutchCook (Sep 14, 2020)

kbright said:


> I like your latest mock up. I recommend that you try to line up the handle with the spine so it looks straight along the top. If you have enough finger clearance from a cutting board.


im finetuning it with a file, trying to take a few hairs of the belly of the blade, it will come close to paralel with the spine.


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## DutchCook (Sep 14, 2020)

There we go.


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## kbright (Sep 14, 2020)

What is your plan for the handle? Will it be a Wa handle with ferrule, split dowel, and main handle? 
How wide will your tang be, maybe 13mm? A quick and dirty method is to just drill a 13mm hole as long as your tang in a block of nice wood, clamp it vertical, fill it with epoxy glue, and insert the blade, let it dry. Try to get the handle and blade in a straight line. Shape the handle with the blade installed. I have a drill press and can drill straight holes, so I would shape the handle first, without the blade. 

Another tip is to file a notch in the top of the tang, and then profile the tang parallel to the spine on the blade. This helps the handle line up with the spine, which looks nice. Also the notch allows the top of the ferrule/handle to have less drop to the spine. Taper the front of the ferrule so it feels good in a pinch grip. Round off the edges on your choil and spine for a comfortable pinch grip.


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## DutchCook (Sep 14, 2020)

kbright said:


> What is your plan for the handle? Will it be a Wa handle with ferrule, split dowel, and main handle?
> How wide will your tang be, maybe 13mm? A quick and dirty method is to just drill a 13mm hole as long as your tang in a block of nice wood, clamp it vertical, fill it with epoxy glue, and insert the blade, let it dry. Try to get the handle and blade in a straight line. Shape the handle with the blade installed. I have a drill press and can drill straight holes, so I would shape the handle first, without the blade.
> 
> Another tip is to file a notch in the top of the tang, and then profile the tang parallel to the spine on the blade. This helps the handle line up with the spine, which looks nice. Also the notch allows the top of the ferrule/handle to have less drop to the spine. Taper the front of the ferrule so it feels good in a pinch grip. Round off the edges on your choil and spine for a comfortable pinch grip.
> ...



The tang is abour 65mm long and 9mm tall at the smallest point.
Note the 2 holes in the tang. The forward hole is in a difficult spot, i think. You think that will affect the handle down a notch?
I was browsing on aliexpress for some simple handles of around 20usd. Most of m are octagonal 135mm long. 19 by 22mm in the front and 22 by 25mm in the back. With hole already in there, usualy around 70mm deep.
Added a picture of tang outline. (The plastic one is a little messed up, but gives an idea)


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## kbright (Sep 14, 2020)

Those are very nice handles. Perhaps you should wait until you have the blade done before you spend money on those handles. 
OK, so your tang is a little narrow from normal, but that's OK. Plan for the handle ferrule to cover that first hole, move the choil farther up if you need to. You might want 15-16mm from the ferrule to the choil for your finger. That first hole can just be buried in glue, and make another hole where you choose. I encourage you to go ahead and cut your blade, get your profile cut, then you can feel it for balance and how heavy a handle you may want.


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## DutchCook (Sep 15, 2020)

Can anyone recomend a Dremel bit for this task? I never used a Dremel before 
Im planning on buying a Dremel 4000 soon. I think that was the best one for the money but im not sure. Anyone got Dremel experience?


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## parbaked (Sep 15, 2020)

I suggest one with a plug instead of the rechargeable batteries...moar, better power!
I have model 2050 but I use it mostly for my pooch's nails so no idea what bit for metal.
i like this one because it is slimmer and designed for detail work.
They come with comprehensive info on all the bits and accessories and best uses...




__





Dremel Tools - Rotary, Saws, Oscillating and more | Dremel


Find the right tool for your project. Since 1932, Dremel® has been helping Makers with its full line of versatile, easy-to-use tool systems that deliver the perfect solution for almost any project.




www.dremel.com


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## DutchCook (Sep 15, 2020)

parbaked said:


> I suggest one with a plug instead of the rechargeable batteries...moar, better power!
> I have model 2050 but I use it mostly for my pooch's nails so no idea what bit for metal.
> i like this one because it is slimmer and designed for detail work.
> They come with comprehensive info on all the bits and accessories and best uses...
> ...


 Wired absolutely! The 4000 is one of the most powerful wired ones. I think only the 4300 is more powerful, but there is something about it i dont like, it has some new bit-attachment system that i dont trust. So the 4000 is my best bet, i think.


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