# Has all major YouTube content devolved into shilling?



## tcmx3 (Nov 23, 2020)

So, as a young(er) and online person, I have been on youtube since the early days. I have felt that YouTube content had improved steadily over the years, and that recently there had been an explosion in good content.

But very recently I've noticed a hugely worrying trend. It feels like anyone making content regularly on YouTube is turning to sponsors. In fact, I dont think I'm alone in this opinion because Google recently announced changes to the YouTube advertising scheme that basically allows them to monetize your video for you, and **** you if you don't like it oh and if you aren't on a certain tier of use then they don't share that revenue. Which I think also confirms it's not the end user using adblockers to skirt ads because then the big GOOG would be looking for something outside of that system.

It can vary in its extremity, but IMO this is a fast track to bad content. And by bad content, there's the "why does this exist?" version such as beer sponsored Thanksgiving stand & stirs featuring suspect recipes, but there's also that dangerous and insidious early TV version where people are promoting garbage (anything to do with vaping, vitamins, loot-box based mobile games, etc) or perhaps engage in a bit of "imaginative" reviewing of the products featured on their channel to insure continued access. 

This is in addition to Patreons, GoFundMes, Kickstarters, etc. Now look, most of these folks aren't making huge money. I know it's tempting to look at the views and Alphabet's market cap/profit numbers but the profit sharing with creators is small. They're doing this because they're getting squeezed. In fact, I'm friends with a content creator with several >500k view videos (so not huge, but not nothing either) and he's lucky to make a few grand a quarter, a far cry less than I make sitting at a desk smashing my head into a wall until my model metrics look good enough. But at any rate, the end result _feels_ awful to me.

It seems to me that YouTube has devolved into shilling, Instagram is just 100 million ads + all the disingenuous influencer stuff, Facebook is an unusable hellsite that should be nuked off the face of the earth, Twitter is just who can be angrier than who, and we're getting pumped for every last cent by the horribly fractured streaming system where no one has enough content anymore and you're often asked to part with six times what you paid for a channel on cable to watch 1 show release 8 episodes over 2 months, plus some really badly made movies. 

I dont know if my noticing this is more to being stuck at home, or if it really is worse recently. What do you all think?


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## WildBoar (Nov 24, 2020)

and please let's not forget the whole forced move away from analog cable TV to digital, which eliminated the ability to watch scrambled Cinemax After Dark and forced people to wait until they were old enough to move out of their parents' house and pay for cable themselves, including the $$$ movie channels that included some "adult content". A huge freakin' scam to bleed money out of the young male population throughout the US (and possibly the world). That likely laid the groundwork for everything else you are pointing out.

On a more serious note, anyone who terms themselves an 'influencer' is anything but one in my book. They are an immediate ignore unless perhaps they are scantily clad in their veiled ads. But it's cool that their content may still exist in 20 years so their little kids can stumble across it and ask mommy why she was in her underwear advertising a sports drink.


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## BillHanna (Nov 24, 2020)

“Look, son. If I can say so myself; I was hot as fuuuck. My hotness bought all those games you wanted. Remember that trip to Disney? These titties paid for that. Be grateful.”


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## ecchef (Nov 24, 2020)

A sad, but accurate commentary on our society as a whole.


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## esoo (Nov 24, 2020)

It's really about people trying to make money. It's easier to try and shill something than come up with original content. Been the case on the Internet for a long time. $1000 in a camera/mic/sound deadened room and you've got a studio and away you go. Cost of entry is low, so lots of people do it.


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## ModRQC (Nov 24, 2020)

Welcome to the desert of the Real. I never subscribed to IG nor Twitter, FB I go contain whatever notifications I get every once in a while, and on YouTube select my content. I also avoided the streaming platforms like the plague. I even buy Paypal direct anytime I can. All this relating to one scheme: avoiding popular platforms because stupidity is aggravating, and avoiding to create accounts every goddamn click I make. I buy printed books and read like 25 years ago. I watch stuff where I can learn something, but so little TV. I think we've yet to see the most debilitating lows these trends will hit.


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## tcmx3 (Nov 24, 2020)

esoo said:


> It's really about people trying to make money. It's easier to try and shill something than come up with original content. Been the case on the Internet for a long time. $1000 in a camera/mic/sound deadened room and you've got a studio and away you go. Cost of entry is low, so lots of people do it.



I'm not sure that really checks out. The amount spent on content on YouTube production for the major content creators has risen significantly over time, to the point where now there's a TON of "produced" content all over the place that is pretty expensive to produce. Unless you're one of the early adopters who has a dedicated audience, the chance is that if you're doing the numbers it's because you've invested a lot of money and time into it.

Yet we're stilling see all this sponsored content.

I would argue that when it was easier to get a little bit of ad revenue from lower production values, things were better. More solid content by people who knew what they were talking about.

One effect that a shill based system has is that content creation by shallow content, loud personalities, and about things that rustle people's jimmies (e.g. look at all the clickbait titles these days) rises to the top. So basically, YouTube is devolving into television, except with the worst millennial sensibilities instead of the worst boomer sensibilities.

I think we're starting to see the real impact of how these social media platforms were specifically designed to take a much larger cut from content creators than the prior generation of platforms. Google's market cap is 1.18 TRILLION dollars on 160 BILLION dollars of revenue per year. YouTube, which is the second largest search engine on the internet, is printing money for them with advertising.

Yet content creators appear to be fighting over the scraps, and now half the content is some awful moron making weird ****ing noises and doing slow motion "b-roll" between hammering me with the newest "box of **** I dont need" or questionably marketed junk.


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## esoo (Nov 24, 2020)

tcmx3 said:


> I think we're starting to see the real impact of how these social media platforms were specifically designed to take a much larger cut from content creators than the prior generation of platforms.



The thing is that is that the platform is not so much taking a cut as reducing the payout.

5 year ago:


> Social Media Platform - let me give you a platform for free, and i'll give you ads you can put in. We both win - I get the money for the eyeball, and I'll share some of that.
> Content Creator: Cool that works.



Today:


> Content Creator: I'm not making as much money from you.
> Social Media Platform: Sorry, but there is additional 10 million of you, I have to share the revenue with them to, and our shareholders want us to see profits every quarter, so we had to share the payout amongst more of you



When the basic point of entry is a smartphone that can record, anyone can be a content creator and try taking a part of the pie. And for every X "content creator/influencer/shill" (where X is some suitably large number) there is 1 content creator that is actually making real content that is worth something but they are swamped by the crap. There is one pie and more people are taking a part of it today than ever before. And that X number is increasing daily because companies will pay to create shill accounts to get people to buy there stuff (for example Kamikoto is one of those as far as I'm concerned)


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## damiano (Nov 24, 2020)

Youtube and ads is getting out of hand, indeed. Though there are still some smaller channels (100-1000 subscribers) where ads are nonexistent or rare, and they still have great content. Whenever a video has too many ads, I just close youtube and do something different. I am also on IG and there it’s much less. No forced ads in stories, unless the content creator again chooses to do so, and then it’s an easy unsubscribe.

I’m still waiting for a less commercial IT giant to stand up and make a platform for content where commercial interests are less prevalent.


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## esoo (Nov 24, 2020)

Ads on the internet in general are out of hand

I run ad block in every browser I can and Adguard ad blocking DNS at home. 

Otherwise the internet is unbearable


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## daveb (Nov 24, 2020)

Once upon a time print reporters would tell a story by putting as many salient facts up front - cause that's what they knew people would read. Then the story was continued on page xx, with all the stuff people wouldn't read. Page xx was also where the advertisements were.

Today there is a catchy headline and then "click" buttons ad nauseum, with express intent of taking you one line at a time by as many advertisements as possible before you get to the "facts" of the story. Which may or may not be related to the headline you started with.

It's no wonder most writers suck - if they told a meaningful story succinctly there would be no money in it for anyone.

Off with their heads.


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## MarcelNL (Nov 25, 2020)

I am cutting Google / Chrome etc use more and more, never was a big fan of Youtube even when it has some GREAT content, have stayed away from social media and do not regret it as everything I do see of it is becoming shallower and shallower and more commercial.
Adblockers rule!
I'm happy to pay for content I choose, like a forum, donate for freeware or pay for commercial software, music books movies etc. To the point where I eagerly await the option to pay a fee to get rid of commercials in TV programs. We do have Netflix and pretty much only watch that bit of TV content that interests us and only if we can view after the fact and skip the ads, our TV consumption is quite low but diminishing. Music is playing like 6hrs a day, Tidal, own collection, no ads please. Somehow Youtube does not add commercials when using a plugin in Daphile (audiophile OS running on my streamer NUC)


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## DavidPF (Jan 13, 2021)

I don't know ...

From my point of view maybe there are two basic responses:

1. (same basic idea as @ModRQC ) The internet in 2021 is a package deal, and if you don't like the deal, don't buy; or send the entire package back and ask for a refund.

2. The internet in 2021 is defective as shipped, and the manufacturer is not interested in repairing it and won't provide a working replacement, so to hell with the manufacturer, rip it apart and try to fix it yourself. (for example, using applications that actually do what you want them to do, blocking out whatever content you don't want, and so on.)


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## GorillaGrunt (Jan 13, 2021)

@ Title question: Yes it has. The purist in me wants to lament it and the economist in me wants to applaud and join in because pimping cheap crap to gullible, apathetic idiots is in fact a viable and lucrative business model.


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## DavidPF (Jan 13, 2021)

My own direct answer to the original question: No, because "major YouTube content" means exactly the same thing as "what's on YouTube that I want to watch". There is no other criterion to make something on YouTube "major" except that I like it or was looking for it. (Or, in your case, that _you_ like it or were looking for it.)

Hint: YouTube isn't how to find stuff on YouTube. That's like sending a truly devoted, committed Bacardi salesman out to buy liquor for you, saying "I don't know, just bring something good". (Actually it's even worse than that.) Anyway, you don't need three guesses to figure out what he'll come back with. Letting YT show you what's good on YT is futile - of course you get shills.


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## DavidPF (Jan 13, 2021)

Shortening and maybe improving my previous reply:

- There is, to put it mildly, a lot of stuff on the internet.

- If you don't want any of it, then just don't. But consider, are you against all of the content, or are you only against the marketing methods?

- If you do want some of it, you'll need a way to find just the parts you're after, because nobody can handle the entire internet at once. This may involve (in any order) actually deciding what you want, sorting, searching, skimming/glancing, and making-actual-use-of. And during that process you may or may not want to use pieces of specialized software that narrow it down by only seeing a certain part of what's available. (for example a communication app that only sees messages, a picture app that only sees pictures, or whatever)

- Here's Google (also owner of YouTube):

- The first thing they did (from most people's point of view), long ago, was catalogue every word on the internet, or close enough. If you wanted to use the internet to find out how to make sauerkraut, you could enter that word on Google to find every instance in which anyone on the internet ever typed "sauerkraut". You would get back a big list.

- But once Google had that list, they looked for ways to put it to work for themselves. And this is where the problem is, because what they came up with was to stand waiting beside their list like an opportunistic kind of panhandler stands beside a parking lot. Instead of offering to sell you a fake parking pass, Google is saying "That's an awfully long list - here, let me sort it for you (heh heh heh)". The reason they want you to let them sort your list, of course, is the same reason the parking-lot panhandler wants you to buy the ticket he's got in his hand instead of one from the machine.

- Google and YouTube don't SAY they're sorting your search results and only showing you the ones that benefit them. They just go ahead and do it. And as they get better and more effective at that, the number of real, non-shill results you get goes lower and lower.

- Solution: use other software, other apps, other search methods, that eliminate Google's opportunity to say "That's an awfully long list - here, let me sort it for you (heh heh heh)".

OK, that wasn't shorter.


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## WildBoar (Jan 13, 2021)

I was skeptical of this claim so a Googled it and confirmed it is nothing but a pack of lies...


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## Rangen (Jan 13, 2021)

I don't know what you mean by "major YouTube content." Maybe I don't ever watch any of that?

All I know is that when I go look for information about sharpening, or how to do some tricky thing like change a bin thermostat in an ice maker, or convert a generator to propane, I find great content from people who seem to just want to help. I'm grateful.


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## Matt Zilliox (Jan 13, 2021)

We have been taught to consume... this is now the cost of that priority. Nothing is sacred, everything now monetized. Its really weird how us sheep just want to be told what to buy by amateurs on the internet... of course it could also be the product of crap job prospects. When you go into debt for college on the promise its an investment then find out its more of a lottery, what else ya gonna do but try to get some cash out of the folks who won't just hire you.


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## LostHighway (Jan 13, 2021)

Matt Zilliox said:


> "...the folks who won't just hire you."



Or the folks who will hire you for zero-hour contract jobs or "gig economy" jobs like driving an Uber. If the oligarchs have their way most of those under 40 can look forward to that brave new world where people have no job security, no safety net, own nothing, and are expected to work until they die and be happy about it.


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## DavidPF (Jan 13, 2021)

Rangen said:


> I don't know what you mean by "major YouTube content." Maybe I don't ever watch any of that?


I'm pretty sure it means "the items that are shown most prominently on the YT website or app, the ones that Google causes to be easy to find"


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## WildBoar (Jan 13, 2021)

damn, sounds like maybe not all people choose a major in college that has good long-term job prospects? I've never heard of obtaining an engineering resulting in a 'lottery' for future employment prospects with the exception of aerospace. In the Civil field in the US we've been short of graduates for over 20 years. If you can make it through the university you can get a job in the field and have a long career.

As far as 'work until you die' that pretty much becomes a reflection on who good you are at saving. Want the gov't to fund everyone in retirement? Then expect to pay a lot more in taxes while you are working, and to be no better off.

Get a degree in a field with good employment prospects and start putting money into a retirement account right away. The sooner you start the sooner you will be able to stop working.

Another way to not work until you die is to move to a place with a lower cost of living. If you want to stay in a major metropolitan area it will be much harder.


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## tcmx3 (Jan 13, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> damn, sounds like maybe not all people choose a major in college that has good long-term job prospects? I've never heard of obtaining an engineering resulting in a 'lottery' for future employment prospects with the exception of aerospace. In the Civil field in the US we've been short of graduates for over 20 years. If you can make it through the university you can get a job in the field and have a long career.
> 
> As far as 'work until you die' that pretty much becomes a reflection on who good you are at saving. Want the gov't to fund everyone in retirement? Then expect to pay a lot more in taxes while you are working, and to be no better off.
> 
> ...



the fact that you dont see a problem with having to go into awful, boring fields to get by doesnt mean it isnt a problem.

there are already too many mbas, lawyers, computer programmers, etc.

you complain that there arent enough grads in your field in the next sentence too, well that's a reflection that young people dont think it's worth their time. there was probably some kid who would have been great at it but decided it was better to be a mediocre front end dev because at least then he could afford to pay back his loans.

btw all the kids in my family get to get whatever degrees they want because there is already money. guess those kids who are really passionate about history or theatre really messed up when they went and decided to be born poor.

I just want to add of all the stuff you've said, the only thing I dont do myself is move out of a major metro area. Im trying to make some money here, there are no prospects outside of cities, and I dont want to move somewhere where the primary export is rx drug addiction.


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## WildBoar (Jan 13, 2021)

The moving out of a metro area is for when you are ready to retire (i.e., not work until you die). Then the money you saved, your social security checks and your IRA/ 401k payouts will support you for more years.

So now 'awful, boring' is added to the equation. Before it was you get a degree and then it's a lottery if you get a good job. I guess I really am out of touch with the newer generations. "I want to change the world! I want to work for a non-profit and do good! And I want my starting pay to be $110k/ year and I want to be able to surf the internet all day!" fuk it -- you want financial security be prepared to work. There is a reason it's called 'work' and not 'fun.'

Part of the reason there are not enough students in this field is because you need good grades to get into a program, and you actually have to work pretty hard the first two years of engineering school. An amazingly high % of students dropped out and went over to the much easier business school. Engineering salaries were ~35% higher than business grad salaries when I graduated, unless the business grad had a masters.

No question engineering is not 'sexy'. Computer stuff and the exploding internet took away many potential students in the late '90s. Hell, the promise of $65k-$80k starting pay and a leased BMW for 3 years if you got into Tech attracted a metric crapload of potential students. And Civil Engineering programs did not help by exclaiming that environmental engineering was the new 'job of the century', and the vast majority of CE students went for environmental engineering degrees. Great money for the schools, as environmental even attracted many non-engineering types. And as the graduates started flooding out of the schools the market immediately became oversaturated with environment engineers, all while there were not nearly enough grads with backgrounds in structural, site development, highway and bridge design, etc. It eventually recovered a bit, but then the economy boomed and the construction management firms jumped in a started hiring students as they finished their junior years. The CM firms had deep pockets (much deeper then the typical smallish engineering firm) and could afford to pay $10k hiring bonuses and wait a year for the student to graduate. It really squeezed engineering firms. But hey, if you were a CE student what wasn't there to like? 

I can't say if the profession is 'worth someone's time', but I sure as crap know a lot of people who went that route and have done very well. Some even do well enough to buy way more chef knives than is needed in a sane household  

Maybe being around construction sites as buildings are built is boring to you. And crawling all around existing buildings figuring out what is wrong with them and how to repair them. Or developing solutions to drinking water supply issues. Or designing better HVAC systems that can help prevent the spread of Covid. Or figuring out how to help p[event flooding from reoccurring in at-risk neighborhoods. But to some of us it is more exciting than sitting all day in an office chair reviewing the latest inventory numbers of the company paperclip supply, or waiting to click on the 'buy' button as soon as the online store puts more PS5s up for sale.


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## tcmx3 (Jan 13, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> The moving out of a metro area is for when you are ready to retire (i.e., not work until you die). Then the money you saved, your social security checks and your IRA/ 401k payouts will support you for more years.
> 
> So now 'awful, boring' is added to the equation. Before it was you get a degree and then it's a lottery if you get a good job. I guess I really am out of touch with the newer generations. "I want to change the world! I want to work for a non-profit and do good! And I want my starting pay to be $110k/ year and I want to be able to surf the internet all day!" fuk it -- you want financial security be prepared to work. There is a reason it's called 'work' and not 'fun.'
> 
> ...



Im not sure what world you live in, but it's not the same one I do.

No one acts the way you describe, undergraduate engineering (especially back when I suspect you got yours) isnt hard, and it mostly sounds like you've built up a lot of stuff to justify your own life choices.

If you want to see someone who works hard go look at the single mom who works two jobs to make ends meet. 

And really, the fact that you're dismissive of people who want to go into non-profit or make the world better, dude you need to get your priorities in line that stuff is important.


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## tcmx3 (Jan 14, 2021)

honest to goodness 99% of people I meet just want some stability and to be treated with a bit of dignity.

if we're going to go full millenial trope Im going to go call someone from the greatest generation and dig up all the stuff they said about you lot come on can we treat each other with some empathy please?


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## simar (Jan 14, 2021)

Content is now the filler to the advertising stream, its all about the eyeballs and advertising.


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## DavidPF (Jan 14, 2021)

simar said:


> Content is now the filler to the advertising stream, its all about the eyeballs and advertising.


I block ALL ads everywhere. I haven't seen an ad I didn't literally search for, in a long time. People may whine that I'm doing something nasty to them by blocking the ads they want me to let their chosen third-party providers sneak in front of me. If that's a legitimate business model, then blocking ads to get a better experience is a legitimate business model too, and I just happen to be the better businessman in that case. (A rare thing, I assure you.)


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 14, 2021)

Interesting posts here. Have noticed a lot I have searched pops up. Latest wanted to aggressively invest with my Roth IRA would go to stock pickers sites pay a low intro fee only to be asked for thousands for special services to make you rich. Paid a site 49.00 after watching a slick video of stock that will make you rich like getting into Amazon early. When looked up the stock it was a biotech noticed the insiders dumped their stocks before giving trail results that were complete failure. This all happened before I watched the video.

Not only that they gave away my email to other get rich quick scams email flooded. Have managed to get rid of most of it.

When I'm on you tube stock picker ads pop up all the time, just ignore them. Like to watch John John Florence videos sailing his Gunboat Catamaran around the Pacific, & surfing empty breaks in far of places.

My Social media is limited to KKF  

TV doesn't almost everyone tape shows & movies on DVR so you can easy skip commercials. 

Just watched on PBS about Alex 
Jones who finally got kicked off social media.
It was mentioned that they were fine with him because had millions of followers who made him & network providers lots of money. Only after the amazing bull he preached ruined people's lives & the lawsuits started coming in.
He was the guy who said Obama was born in Kenya. Then Trump started up about it 
That's when Obama provided birth certificate from Hawaii with David Sinclairs doctor signature. He had passed away & how the family in Hawaii found out about it. That's nothing compared to other stuff Alex Jones has done. Didn't know about any of this until watched on PBS. Like someone said here the internet is vast what you look at comes back to you in ads etc. & similar sites to explore.


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## Matt Zilliox (Jan 14, 2021)

Look. I know some professions still have jobs, my wifes a doctor, always jobs for the high end.. don't go so far in your assessment, im not referring to myself, I graduated in economics some 20plus years ago. Its not the same anymore though. 

Not all folks have a math or engineering brain. 

Nobody tells you before you pick your major which jobs are looking. Not all people live in a city, or want to. 

My generation said go to college and you will get a job good enough to pay off loans.

Period. Just go.

How many 40 yr olds still have student debt?
Lots

So great. Ill tell my buddies kids engineering is a gig w jobs. 

Its an exception. Not the norm. One only has to look around. I used to live in portland, the place where masters degrees cook your food and serve your beer.

Its an odd world, not the one my parents told us about, and changing faster than ever.


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## alterwisser (Jan 14, 2021)

Regarding the Engineering degree:

it might be right, but how does it help someone who has no technical talent and/or desire to work in that field?

my dad also wanted me to go into a technical profession. But what can I do? I struggled with Maths and physics, and I hated it. I had to fight hard just to master the math stuff needed for macro and microeconomics in college. It’s just not me.

Yes, bills need to be paid, but I think you need to follow a career path that you’re gonna be happy in and passionate about. I don’t think you should consider becoming an engineer or anything else if it’s likely that you’re miserable for year or decades.

To each their own. But a fulfilled career and happy life trumps an unhappy one that pays well any day of the week. Ideally, it’s both fulfilling and decently paid, of course.


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## Luftmensch (Jan 14, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> What do you all think?



I agree. It seems to me there was a golden age of YouTube where the content was more raw. It was community lead and it had amateur appeal. We are lucky we had that! But we are living through a live experiment.

YouTube. Marketing companies. Content creators. Viewers. The common denominator is that YouTube is the service provider and can dictate the terms of service (and change them at their convenience).

The behaviour you see on the platform is a consequence of those stakeholders pushing and pulling in their own direction. It would be unreasonable to assume YouTube would remain a static entity. Throughout its history it has had to (and will continue to) adapt to regulation, social expectation/license and competition. Changes to high-level strategy will be echoed in the content that is made prominent on the platform.




tcmx3 said:


> Google recently announced changes to the YouTube advertising scheme that basically allows them to monetize your video for you, and **** you if you don't like it oh and if you aren't on a certain tier of use then they don't share that revenue.





Unfortunately, their platform... their terms of service. If you read the fine print they say wordy things like:



> By providing Content to the Service, you grant to YouTube a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable and transferable license to use that Content (including to reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works, display and perform it) in connection with the Service and YouTube’s (and its successors’ and Affiliates’) business, including for the purpose of promoting and redistributing part or all of the Service.



and to your point, the recent announcement:



> You grant to YouTube the right to monetize your Content on the Service (and such monetization may include displaying ads on or within Content or charging users a fee for access). This Agreement does not entitle you to any payments. Starting November 18, 2020, any payments you may be entitled to receive from YouTube under any other agreement between you and YouTube (including for example payments under the YouTube Partner Program, Channel memberships or Super Chat) will be treated as royalties. If required by law, Google will withhold taxes from such payments.



Again, YouTube are under no obligation to do what _we_ want with their infrastructure. Similarly content creators are free to choose what they produce and how they publish their material. I find it hard to feel empathy for content creators who bemoan changes to 'the algorithm'. I can muster some sympathy.


On another note:



tcmx3 said:


> sitting at a desk smashing my head into a wall until my model metrics look good enough



Fine sir: as a reputable member of KKF, I take it, you are not admitting to the dastardly practice of data dredging and rather admitting to the drudgery of data?


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## tcmx3 (Jan 14, 2021)

Luftmensch said:


> Again, YouTube are under no obligation to do what _we_ want with their infrastructure. Similarly content creators are free to choose what they produce and how they publish their material. I find it hard to feel empathy for content creators who bemoan changes to 'the algorithm'. I can muster some sympathy.
> 
> 
> On another note:
> ...



I get it. YouTube's house, YouTube's rules. I dont have to like the result of it though. Also worth noting, I am not a content creator. But YouTube does have a monetary interest in the content quality though, as they are making huge money off ads, and content is what people go to their site to look at.

As far as your latter point goes, tbh that's a fair accusation, but I haven't been guilty of that since I had to write peer-review and my research director who was from "the golden era" refused to accept non-significant results even if that was reality. I dont do that kind of work anymore, and I was joking.


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## Barmoley (Jan 14, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> Im not sure what world you live in, but it's not the same one I do.
> 
> No one acts the way you describe, undergraduate engineering (especially back when I suspect you got yours) isnt hard, and it mostly sounds like you've built up a lot of stuff to justify your own life choices.
> 
> ...




That's not the issue. Do what you like and feel passionate about, but don't also expect to make a lot of money for it if the society at large doesn't agree with you and doesn't want to pay for it. It sounds like some of you feel that you should be able to live where you want, do what you want, follow professions that you think are important and still get paid well for it. That's all great, but whom do you expect to pay for your passion? Clearly some jobs are valued more than others in our world, not everyone can do these jobs, that's most likely why people who can get paid a lot. You want to be a poet, be a poet, go to school for it if you want, but it would be silly to expect to get out of college and be making a lot of money. You might make it big at some point or not. Presumably you are doing this because you love it not for the money, so better have something else that makes you money.

Some of you guys sound like children, " I want to do what I want and be happy, oh and I want the world to pay for it..." Society pays for what is important to it at the time. It might not be sexy or fun or something you can do, but it is what society needs at the time. We all want to follow our dreams and passions and also make a lot of money doing it, some succeed, but very few. It is unreasonable to expect someone else to pay for your happiness.


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## tcmx3 (Jan 14, 2021)

you know what screw this Im out.


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## Matt Zilliox (Jan 14, 2021)

Yeah I think that misses the point entirely. We know the reality as it is today. Thats the discussion. It used to be in my parents gen, any degree meant security. Anywhere. My gen saw this change some. Today's grads... im not sure how it is for them, but I do know its harder than ever to find a good paying job. 

I dont hear folks whining about wanting to do what they want... I hear folks lamenting the evolution of the economy and consumer priorities. We are lamenting what society values. Of course we all adapt, what choice is there? Its philosophy. Its a conversation. We get reality, thanks for further explaining it, haha.

Id argue a bunch of folks making money dont have special skills beyond a lack of morality... some worked hard, some are specialists ( like my wife). Some of them are simply well connected.. Im not whining for myself, I do fine. 

But sure, spoiled kids... capitalism is great!

We are consumers, Americans especially, and its gotten worse over time. Is it the best way forward? Doubtful, buts it's what marketing tells us we are supposed to be into...


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## Luftmensch (Jan 14, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> you know what screw this Im out.



Easy fella... you're alright!  




tcmx3 said:


> I get it. YouTube's house, YouTube's rules. I dont have to like the result of it though. Also worth noting, I am not a content creator. But YouTube does have a monetary interest in the content quality though, as they are making huge money off ads, and content is what people go to their site to look at.



No, you don't have to like it... and nobody is asking you to! I agree that 'the algorithm' promotes content that is likely to be backed by professional outfits rather than smaller individuals. I agree this means the likelihood of a promoted video trying to sell you something is higher... Smaller content producers are likely to be getting less clicks. I don't know what else to say though? 

I think I pretty much agree with your sentiments. The only productive advice I can give you is that you have more pressing concerns in your life to spend your stress budget on. It is what it is...




tcmx3 said:


> But YouTube does have a monetary interest in the content quality though, as they are making huge money off ads, and content is what people go to their site to look at.



Exactly - they have a profit incentive. Perhaps this is an experiment that will turn sour. Of course, the alternative is that this is working for them 





tcmx3 said:


> As far as your latter point goes, tbh that's a fair accusation, but I haven't been guilty of that since I had to write peer-review and my research director who was from "the golden era" refused to accept non-significant results even if that was reality. I dont do that kind of work anymore, and I was joking.



I was attempting to elbow you in the ribs while simultaneously trying to show that I understood the sentiment of your point. Perhaps the emojis didn't make up for the lack of non-verbal cues?


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 14, 2021)

To be a poet ain't what it used to be. In western or Japanese culture.

Unless you consider rap & hip hop today's poetry. 

Joni Mitchell was influenced by Bob Dylan. Both read the classic poets. It showed in their lyrics. 

Seems to me a young person with musical talent even today could do well to write their own music with serious study of the classic poets.


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## tcmx3 (Jan 14, 2021)

the irony of being XD emoted by a person who's opinions in this thread would make for a good onion article.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 14, 2021)

Hot stocks these days are geared to streaming stay at home jobs. Covid just more the case, is a trend more people will be doing it.

5G will change quite a bit the lines & towers are still mostly 4G. Most carriers of 5G not up to the potential of speed yet. That will change.
It is a huge difference from 4G will benefit hospitals, self driving tech, literally everything 
will be much faster speeds & capabilities.

I wonder how mechanization will put many out of jobs. Years ago in Hawaii garbage men picked up. When recycle bins blue, green, & grey, went to driver only with fork jaws pick up.
So many Garbage men got injury actually saved a lot of money in long run.

The most I missed about work when retired was the action and the people worked with. Had to do things like oil painting, teaching knife sharpening I was happy to volunteer enjoyed teaching young people entering the field. Covid ended that.

I think after this difficult period I will find some ways to volunteer my time helping folks one way or another. It's a good feeling makes you feel useful like your still worth something. 
Thinking about meals on wheels.

No self driving cars for me, I'm a boomer like my 6 speed manual trans.


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## Nemo (Jan 14, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> No self driving cars for me, I'm a boomer like my 6 speed manual trans.



I'm with you there, brother.


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## WildBoar (Jan 14, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> Im not sure what world you live in, but it's not the same one I do.
> 
> No one acts the way you describe, undergraduate engineering (especially back when I suspect you got yours) isnt hard, and it mostly sounds like you've built up a lot of stuff to justify your own life choices.
> 
> ...


Eh, my dad worked three jobs and went to night school. one of my sisters was a single mom with two kids.

You keep changing what you are debating about.

I am dismissive about people who want to work for non-profits and get paid big bucks, and actually not do any real work. The 'I will save the world while playing in Instagram people. If you have not crossed paths then good for you -- they seem to be in abundance where I live.


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## WildBoar (Jan 14, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> I wonder how mechanization will put many out of jobs. Years ago in Hawaii garbage men picked up. When recycle bins blue, green, & grey, went to driver only with fork jaws pick up.
> So many Garbage men got injury actually saved a lot of money in long run.
> ...
> No self driving cars for me, I'm a boomer like my 6 speed manual trans.


They switched us to the claw-loading trucks and the special trash bins that go with them about 10 years ago. After about a year they switched back. More problems with the trucks and it took a lot longer.

I prefer my 5 speed manual, but it's been out of commission for a bit so I have been driving the 6 speed exclusively for a while now. Power brakes, power steering, AC that works, etc. I really need to get the other car back on the street this year because I have gotten way too soft.


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## tcmx3 (Jan 14, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> I am dismissive about people who want to work for non-profits and get paid big bucks, and actually not do any real work. The 'I will save the world while playing in Instagram people. If you have not crossed paths then good for you -- they seem to be in abundance where I live.



every single one of those comments was a direct response to something you said...

plus you're one of the ones who derailed my youtube content thread with your "millennials sure do like avacado toast" bit


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## tcmx3 (Jan 14, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> I prefer my 5 speed manual, but it's been out of commission for a bit so I have been driving the 6 speed exclusively for a while now. Power brakes, power steering, AC that works, etc. I really need to get the other car back on the street this year because I have gotten way too soft.



at least we can agree cars were better before they started adding way too much crap and nannies. 

give me an e46 m3 with an s55 and a usb in and let's be done with all these screens and 'traction control'


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## WildBoar (Jan 14, 2021)

I have no idea who like avocado toast, as I am a home cook and not a professional one. But I did interview a new graduate last year, and after talking a bit about our company and what we do, the position and the expectations, etc. I offered to field questions he might have. His sole question was "What will your company do for me?" Definitely a change in attitude from earlier decades. Thankfully not all are cut from the same cloth though.


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## tcmx3 (Jan 14, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> I have no idea who like avocado toast, as I am a home cook and not a professional one. But I did interview a new graduate last year, and after talking a bit about our company and what we do, the position and the expectations, etc. I offered to field questions he might have. His sole question was "What will your company do for me?" Definitely a change in attitude from earlier decades. Thankfully not all are cut from the same cloth though.



lol that's pretty funny actually. 

well it sounds to me like that young man perceives himself as having choices. he either has a lot, or very few, and little chance of in between based on a response like that.

personally when I interview junior people the vast majority of them seem on the level, but then in my field if you don't have some sort of graduate degree your cv probably will go to the shredder, and after a few semesters of poverty and getting yelled at by a 70 year old adviser most people are just happy to be headed somewhere that will give them a new macintosh computer and a competitive salary.


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## WildBoar (Jan 14, 2021)

Several of my friends picked up e46s over the last decade, although not all were M3s. Some went racing with them since replacement parts were cheap (relatively speaking), and some used them as reliable street cars. They did not seem to need a ton of work to get them in reliable condition, and most of needed work was easier than the DIY stuff they were already doing. We have only had BMW in my family, and that was an E30 my dad bought it when I was a freshman in college. It was the last fun/ cool car he had, as he switched to Toyotas Camrys, and then to Camry hybrids  I caught the car 'bug' from him, although it was only the driving aspects as he did not do any of the maintenance or repairs himself. I had to learn all of that in my late 20s/ early 30s; thankfully car-related listservers had started, and it was easy to find people in the area who were willing to wrench on other people' scars and help teach them.

I cannot imagine having an autotragic for a daily driver, and that includes the dual-clutch 'manuals'. I have no issues sitting in DC-area traffic jambs while driving a manual.

fuk, I really need to get my '87 back on the street this year -- I miss driving it. Noise, oil smells, spine-wrenching suspension, stuck-pig-squealy brake pads, manual steering rack, headlights that barely light anything, etc. ...the way cars should be.


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## Towerguy (Jan 14, 2021)

alterwisser said:


> Regarding the Engineering degree:
> 
> it might be right, but how does it help someone who has no technical talent and/or desire to work in that field?
> 
> ...


Google, and particularly Youtube, have reached the point where I can no longer use their services. I cancelled my Google (and Youtube) account this morning. I'm done with it.


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## tcmx3 (Jan 14, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> Several of my friends picked up e46s over the last decade, although not all were M3s. Some went racing with them since replacement parts were cheap (relatively speaking), and some used them as reliable street cars. They did not seem to need a ton of work to get them in reliable condition, and most of needed work was easier than the DIY stuff they were already doing. We have only had BMW in my family, and that was an E30 my dad bought it when I was a freshman in college. It was the last fun/ cool car he had, as he switched to Toyotas Camrys, and then to Camry hybrids  I caught the car 'bug' from him, although it was only the driving aspects as he did not do any of the maintenance or repairs himself. I had to learn all of that in my late 20s/ early 30s; thankfully car-related listservers had started, and it was easy to find people in the area who were willing to wrench on other people' scars and help teach them.
> 
> I cannot imagine having an autotragic for a daily driver, and that includes the dual-clutch 'manuals'. I have no issues sitting in DC-area traffic jambs while driving a manual.
> 
> fuk, I really need to get my '87 back on the street this year -- I miss driving it. Noise, oil smells, spine-wrenching suspension, stuck-pig-squealy brake pads, manual steering rack, headlights that barely light anything, etc. ...the way cars should be.



well if work from home becomes permanent Im going to "downgrade" from my f82 to an e46.

it's not the gear rowing that I miss, it's the screaming of a high revving NA engine.


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## WildBoar (Jan 14, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> personally when I interview junior people the vast majority of them seem on the level, but then in my field if you don't have some sort of graduate degree your cv probably will go to the shredder, and after a few semesters of poverty and getting yelled at by a 70 year old adviser most people are just happy to be headed somewhere that will give them a new macintosh computer and a competitive salary.


I had always thought a Masters would be a big help in the Civil field. My boss when I was interning had a masters in Geotech, and one of the two engineers working there at the time had just received a Master in Structural. I was positioned to go for a Masters in Structural myself, but surprisingly my boss talked me out of doing it right away, and encouraged me to work for a year first. My advisor wasn't in favor of it, by my parents were happy to hear it.

Fast forward a couple decades and I had enough experience hiring people with Masters degrees to realize they were typically more interested in reading theory in books then they were diving into projects in the field and actually solving problems. They really wanted a job where they only needed to discuss things versus actually producing calcs, designs, etc. -- and they also were generally poor at communicating with clients and especially at communicating with construction workers. Sure, we need CEs with advanced degrees to push forward with research on new materials and methods, etc. in the academic world, but for every one of those we need 10+ engineers who understand formulating and solving problems, and who can communicate. In fact, with those basic skills you can teach them the job-specific while they are working. But if they lack that chances are it will be very difficult to teach them about what aspects of work your CE company specializes in.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 15, 2021)

Many of our bridges & roads need structural engineers. I can imagine the mainland esp. structures past their life span. In Hawaii some bridges are over 100 years old. When heavy rain roads take a beating. Up top of the Pali road boulders come crashing down. After all peaks are always in process of erosion.

My nephew was an engineer he was rebuilding car engines 14 years old. Changed careers now FBI he really likes it. Also met his wife beautiful 
Lebonese lady.


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## alterwisser (Jan 15, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> I have no idea who like avocado toast, as I am a home cook and not a professional one. But I did interview a new graduate last year, and after talking a bit about our company and what we do, the position and the expectations, etc. I offered to field questions he might have. His sole question was "What will your company do for me?" Definitely a change in attitude from earlier decades. Thankfully not all are cut from the same cloth though.



i see nothing wrong with asking that question. The relationship between employer and employee shouldn’t be a one way street. Maybe the question in itself was asked in a weird way and I personally wouldn’t use those words, but the context of it is ok.

a company is nothing with its employees, it’s a symbiosis. I think the idea that a company pays a salary and benefits and thus has fulfilled its part in the relationship with the employee is wrong or outdated, or both.

maybe it’s just me


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## alterwisser (Jan 15, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Many of our bridges & roads need structural engineers. I can imagine the mainland esp. structures past their life span. In Hawaii some bridges are over 100 years old. When heavy rain roads take a beating. Up top of the Pali road boulders come crashing down. After all peaks are always in process of erosion.
> 
> My nephew was an engineer he was rebuilding car engines 14 years old. Changed careers now FBI he really likes it. Also met his wife beautiful
> Lebonese lady.



i remember crossing the old Tappan Zee bridge in NY and seeing massive chunks of concrete missing from the road, where you could actually see the water of the Hudson beneath.

US infrastructure is in dire dire shape. But who’s gonna pay for fixing it?

Imho if you really wanna inject life into the economy and create jobs for “everyday people” you massively invest in infrastructure


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## WildBoar (Jan 15, 2021)

Tons of infrastructure work going on. But unfortunately it is mainly new stuff. So even more going into the inventory that will require maintenance and periodic repair. Once we start taxing people who bike and walk on the roads, sidewalks, bridges, etc. we will have more funds to repair these items. Right now we really only tax vehicle owners


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## tcmx3 (Jan 15, 2021)

alterwisser said:


> US infrastructure is in dire dire shape. But who’s gonna pay for fixing it?



there's plenty of money.

just need the will to spend it on things that matter. 

when I seriously studied such things, the gov's own analysis said we could match the current federal revenue with a top marginal tax rate of between 13-14 percent. it would just require taking away all of the ways people avoid paying their fair share.


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## alterwisser (Jan 15, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> Tons of infrastructure work going on. But unfortunately it is mainly new stuff. So even more going into the inventory that will require maintenance and periodic repair. Once we start taxing people who bike and walk on the roads, sidewalks, bridges, etc. we will have more funds to repair these items. Right now we really only tax vehicle owners



i have a friend who’s a hardcore libertarian. He claims that no way should Citizens be taxed to build and maintain:

Roads
Airports 
Ports

Or to pay for:

firefighters
Nurses
ETc

he said it should all be 100% privatized andum you only pay for it when/if you use it.

interesting concept. I’m not sure it would work, but i have never taken a deep dive into researching it. Just as much as I don’t want to rely on China making crucial products I’m not sure I want to rely on private companies to provide basic but essential services like water.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 15, 2021)

WildBoar said:


> They switched us to the claw-loading trucks and the special trash bins that go with them about 10 years ago. After about a year they switched back. More problems with the trucks and it took a lot longer.
> 
> I prefer my 5 speed manual, but it's been out of commission for a bit so I have been driving the 6 speed exclusively for a while now. Power brakes, power steering, AC that works, etc. I really need to get the other car back on the street this year because I have gotten way too soft.



We have been using claw trucks over 15 years pickup has been regular two times a week. Bulk pickup two guys with dolly, hand trucks, & power lift on back of truck. Guys lifting garbage at speed is faster, but disability injury cost is expensive. I saw show yesterday Americans at work in New Orleans guys were lifting recycle bins designed to be lifted by claw. They have to work fast & only get less than 11.00 an hour. They were on strike for more pay after 6 months most were back at work no settlement. I guess strong young guys with no education are plentiful.

Never minded driving manual in traffic it does mean riding the clutch more that's not so good for wear down the line. Old Portuguese guy taught me years ago keep your foot off the clutch don't ride it will last longer. He drove the Ice trucks for years in Honolulu. Used to deliver 300# blocks to the Hotels I used for ice carvings.

If your driving in DC traffic a few comforts are good. Still driving a older classic sports car is fun. And motorcycles.


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## WildBoar (Jan 15, 2021)

My craziness peaks with kitchen knives. No way am I crazy enough to get into motorcycles. At our track weekends, if there was a motorcycle DE going on at the adjacent track there was usually a helicopter lift at some point. I like my bones and skin. 

No clutch riding either. Just a lot of clutch actuations when needing to roll forward a few feet at a time for a few miles.

After college when I had a 5.0 Mustang I would get cramps in my left leg on the drive home from the gym on leg days. That was never fun, but at least it meant that it had been a good lifting session.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 16, 2021)

Been a two wheel junkie ever since got of my 
tricycle to a bicycle


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## tcmx3 (Feb 5, 2021)

guys come on this is 1. definitely against the no politics rules and 2. not got anything to do with youtube content moving towards shilling because the revenue stream from the platform is unreliable.

unless we want to talk about how every libertarian streamer is pimping gold, supplements or off-brand crypto


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## AT5760 (Feb 5, 2021)

To return to your original post/question, what are major content creators to you? I've never really perceived YouTube as a significant content generation platform.

I use YouTube for pretty much only two functions - to pull up the occasional music video and to get random how-to tutorials on various household tasks that I can't quite remember how to do. I'm guessing I'm not the target audience, because other than ads before and after, the content seems to serve its intended purpose pretty well.


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## tcmx3 (Feb 5, 2021)

AT5760 said:


> To return to your original post/question, what are major content creators to you? I've never really perceived YouTube as a significant content generation platform.
> 
> I use YouTube for pretty much only two functions - to pull up the occasional music video and to get random how-to tutorials on various household tasks that I can't quite remember how to do. I'm guessing I'm not the target audience, because other than ads before and after, the content seems to serve its intended purpose pretty well.



hmm, well for me youtube is a primary medium, and mostly Im looking at guitar gear, cooking, film industry stuff, occasionally other hobby stuff like coffee/knives/guns/motorcycles/cars/etc

food youtube is absolutely massive and I suspect may have eclipsed typical food network viewership in the under 40 demo.


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## AT5760 (Feb 6, 2021)

I could see how those topics could evolve into glorified product placement - all very "gear" heavy. I guess I'm an outlier in the sub-40 food loving crowd in that I really prefer to read over watching when it comes to recipes and food culture.


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## captaincaed (Feb 7, 2021)




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## panda (Feb 7, 2021)

'hit that subscribe button'
every [email protected] intro. it makes me not even want to watch what ever video.


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## aboynamedsuita (Feb 7, 2021)

panda said:


> 'hit that subscribe button'
> every [email protected] intro. it makes me not even want to watch what ever video.


Don’t forget to like that video either while you’re there


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## spaceconvoy (Feb 8, 2021)

If mods aren't going to intervene they could at least change the title to "Do all major YouTube discussions devolve into politics?"


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## panda (Feb 8, 2021)

holy derail.


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## M1k3 (Feb 8, 2021)

panda said:


> holy derail.


But heaven forbid we talk about ****** knife modifiers and makers and their ****** business tactics.


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## juice (Feb 8, 2021)

alterwisser said:


> please enlighten us how the US pulling out of NATO has an effect on healthcare and education in Europe?


Just look at the username and work out why asking for reasons is pointless.


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## alterwisser (Feb 8, 2021)

juice said:


> Just look at the username and work out why asking for reasons is pointless.



he’s been a member here for much longer so I doubt your take is correct


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## Matus (Feb 8, 2021)

The end.


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