# 1k stone hunt



## panda

what i am after is a bit of a unicorn. 
FAST cutting, but with EXCELLENT feedback, absolutely NO loading. preferably splash & go. 

my current is watanabe ai1000. it's probably the fastest 1k out there but i'm afraid the feedback is not good enough for me.

i have on order a king hyper #1000 from japan but that'll take weeks to arrive via SAL. this is a soaker so will be permasoaked.

according to my research i need to get a chosera 800. i love the 400, hated the 600, and 1k too slow. maybe 800 is the sweet spot.

if you can think of any other contenders that fit my criteria please comment. keep in mind i am very picky when it comes to stone feedback.


----------



## labor of love

JNS mid grit?


----------



## RDalman

Diamonds for speed, chosera 1k... That's what I like.


----------



## panda

you completely disregarded my criteria. 
diamonds horrible feedback, and i said cho 1k is too slow.

forgot to add, i like feel of shapton glass 1k, just needs to be a little faster


----------



## Smashmasta

Maybe this?

Although this benefits from a quick soak, it can totally handle S&G.

Diamonds are (forever) S&G, so that might be your best bet. Most magnesia based stones like the Choseras synth stones are solely S&G because otherwise they'd fall apart after a short while.


----------



## panda

I've tried jki 1k diamond and while miles better than dmt it's still very much diamond feedback. 

Tell me about the gesh 1200. How's the speed, what's feedback like? I'd be more interested if it were 800 grit. How prone to loading?

Doesn't have to be s&g, just that soakers tend to dish quicker than I'd like. This is for use in pro environment for quick touchups, not much time for flattening.


----------



## labor of love

I've already told panda that the gesshin 1200 is the PERFECT stone for him. Splash and go, cuts fast, feedback is nice-not quite chosera nice but nice. Could somebody back me up here?


----------



## Smashmasta

panda said:


> you completely disregarded my criteria.
> diamonds horrible feedback, and i said cho 1k is too slow.
> 
> forgot to add, i like feel of shapton glass 1k, just needs to be a little faster



I know that's not directed at me, and although I can't speak from experience since I don't own one, not all diamonds have horrible feedback - the JKI vitrified diamond stone is extremely highly regarded on this forum at least, and seems to fit your bill except being 800, which is pretty close.

Missed the Chocera being too slow. Sorry. But look for magnesia based stones for S&G,


----------



## panda

To be fair, everything from jki is highly regarded so I take it with a grain of salt..
That one is too expensive.

I'm betting (hoping) that once I get a cho800 my problem will be solved, lol.


----------



## rick_english

Great thread. This is exactly what I've been seeking-----for 5 years. Good luck......


----------



## berko

> Great thread. This is exactly what I've been seeking-----for 5 years. Good luck......



whats the result?


----------



## jaknil

panda said:


> what i am after is a bit of a unicorn.
> FAST cutting, but with EXCELLENT feedback, absolutely NO loading. preferably splash & go.


JNS 1K 
It fits the bill, including the splash and go.

Sold out at the moment though: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-1000-matukusuyama/


----------



## Ruso

Cho 800 is sloow slooooow slow.
If you want a really fast stone and especially S&G feedback should be your 3rd concern. At the end of day you will not spend much time on a super fast stone.


----------



## Ruso

Also JNS1K is similar to Cho800 IMHO slightly faster with slightly worse feedback.


----------



## foody518

Has anyone used the Sigma Select II 1200?


----------



## Lars

JNS800 is fast and great feeling, but dishes and needs soaking..

Lars


----------



## Krassi

Watanabe Ai#1000 best 1k synthetic IMHO
i got used to it and its more versatile than the JNS1k .. but having both is even better!


----------



## nutmeg

Ruso said:


> Cho 800 is sloow slooooow slow.



I found this one very slow too. 

BTW with all respect for what you are looking but why are you searching a great feedback for a stone you don't use more than 60 seconds? (I mean a fast 1000 grit)


----------



## nutmeg

and the AI#2000?


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> To be fair, everything from jki is highly regarded so I take it with a grain of salt..
> That one is too expensive.
> 
> I'm betting (hoping) that once I get a cho800 my problem will be solved, lol.



So you want the perfect splash and go stone that excels in all categories but don't want to spend more than $75? Btw both chosera 800 and gesh 1200 cost $75, so how is gesh is too expensive?


----------



## rick_english

berko said:


> whats the result?



At the moment I would agree with Lars: The JNS 800 is the best stone I've used in this range as far as cutting power, coloring of jigane, and feel. It needs soaking though and does dish quickly. I'm starting to suspect that getting many of these characteristics in a splash-and-go just isn't feasible.


----------



## panda

he was referring to the $400 super special 800grit diamond stone

@ why feedback important in lower grit, because i detest sharpening that much and want it to suck as little as possible


----------



## Benuser

I would indeed suggest the Chosera 800. The Naniwa Pro is if possible denser and less dishing.


----------



## chinacats

Gesshin 1.2k splash and go is a very nice stone. Cuts fast, doesn't dish too much and feels good. Feels nice though not Chosera feel. I only sold mine when I shifted to naturals.

I'd go with the Gesshin of what I've tried...of stones I've not tried, I think I'd go for a Shapton pro but mainly out if curiosity...I know someone so uses then for tools so I'll get you some eventual feedback.

One other thought is more expensive and a soaker but I think the Gesshin 2k would make you smile the most...and it's fast.


----------



## labor of love

chinacats said:


> Gesshin 1.2k splash and go is a very nice stone. Cuts fast, doesn't dish too much and feels good. Feels nice though not Chosera feel. I only sold mine when I shifted to naturals.
> 
> I'd go with the Gesshin of what I've tried...of stones I've not tried, I think I'd go for a Shapton pro but mainly out if curiosity...I know someone so uses then for tools so I'll get you some eventual feedback.
> 
> One other thought is more expensive and a soaker but I think the Gesshin 2k would make you smile the most...and it's fast.



Yeah, I miss 2k gesh. Isn't it on the hard side?


----------



## preizzo

Jck have a combo 400 /1200 so far the best medium grit I ever had, unfortunately it s a combo and need to be soaked. 
Agreed about the chosera 1k, that stone it s just to slow. 
Right now I am using a shampton glass 1 K and I enjoy using it s lot, but it's to slim.


----------



## Benuser

Just wondering people finding the 800 Chosera or Naniwa Pro particularly slow??


----------



## labor of love

Benuser said:


> Just wondering people finding the 800 Chosera or Naniwa Pro particularly slow??



I've been using a chosera 800 for a while now and have found no problem with the speed that it sharpens.


----------



## Ruso

Benuser said:


> Just wondering people finding the 800 Chosera or Naniwa Pro particularly slow??



What are you wondering about I wonder? It is a slow stone. It has other benefits like feedback and nice scratch pattern for grit. If it was marked ~1500 I would be happy with it.


----------



## Lars

What about Chosera/Pro 400 then - it is pretty nice to sharpen on and finishes more like 6-800 grit..
I used to go Chosera 400 --> Chosera 2K --> Superstone 5K and that worked just fine even though the SS is a pita tu use.

Lars


----------



## panda

preizzo, can you get into more detail about the jck combo stone? 
if the shapton glass 1k was thicker and had slightly more speed, it would be great stone.

i already have cho400 (love that stone). i need closer to 1k scratch pattern because i finish a lot of my edges on it. (petty, suji, beaters)
believe me i've tried jumping from cho400 to my finisher (jnat 3-4k) and it takes too long.


----------



## Chuckles

The Gesshin 2K is a nice stone. But it's a soaker. If you've never tried it I can send it your way.


----------



## Krassi

@panda
As mentioned the Watanabe Ai1000 is as fast as my JNS400, Scratchpattern like the JNS1000, incredible fast and finishes like a 1500+
I nearly scrubbed 3mm away on a Aogami2 in no time because i didnt check what i was doing. Black ink was running down like a waterfall but i didnt realize that i was cutting the kinfe away 
Feels rougher at the beginning, but if polished with a DMT its ok.


----------



## panda

krassi how do you not realize by now that i already have a wat ai1000!!?? i swear most of you don't actually read threads thoroughly and just wander in your own thoughts...

thanks chucks, but i don't think i would have any use for a 2k stone. i'm not averse to soaker, i just prefer the convenience of s&g is all. i'm kind of excited for the king hyper that is also a soaker to arrive, mostly cause nobody ever talks about it.


----------



## labor of love

Panda, what about a diamond stone?


----------



## panda

I'm gonna kill you Craig &#128512;


----------



## Lars

panda said:


> mostly cause nobody ever talks about it.



If this is your criteria for selecting a stone, it is very hard to help you talking about stones on a forum..

..just saying.. 

Lars


----------



## panda

It's hard to talk about stones because nobody seems to pay attention to what I'm looking for..


----------



## Krassi

hahahah! 
Sorry @panda ..dang that happens if you are suddenly sober 
I totally forgot that! so i shut up


----------



## Lars

Yeah so my plug for chosera 400 seems a little off after reading your first post again..

..however i absolutely refuse to sober up..

:biggrin:

Lars


----------



## bennyprofane

Panda, have you tried using a fine diamond stone (for example Atoma 1200) on the Watanabe AI 1000? Mine felt much nicer afterwards...


----------



## panda

haha, cheers lars.

benny: i have not tried that, i only have atoma 140. that seems like a compromise though, i'm looking for straight up usage.


----------



## Krassi

Yeah that really did the trick! And would be a cheap solution for better feedback.
On a 1 hour direct comparison with JNS1000 there was suddenly not a real big difference anymore.
I used a worn out DMT and a worn out Atoma600 that are also fine for finishing jnats. 

Because of the insane shapingpower of the stone it could drill away anything besides diamondplates.
Sorry i wrote so many posts in the past days that you loose any sight of the OP


----------



## bennyprofane

panda said:


> haha, cheers lars.
> 
> benny: i have not tried that, i only have atoma 140. that seems like a compromise though, i'm looking for straight up usage.



I don't mean that you have to do that repeatedly, once did the trick. Perhaps the 140 will do it...

Edit: Perhaps you could also start on Atoma and then try a hard mid grit jnat...


----------



## panda

Yeah I do initial flattening on all new stones


----------



## daveb

I've got DMTs thru xf (correlates to 1200 (I think)) if you want to give Krassi's approach a go.


----------



## preizzo

Well the 1,2 k cut pretty fast and does not load that much, nice finish on the carbon steel knives. 
The 400 grit side was a bit to soft, wear off fast, didn't like it like my chosera 400.


----------



## Sharpchef

The Sigma Select 2 1200 stone should fit your needs.....

it is faster then chosera, but a little softer, nice feedback.... No loading, but it wears too fast for my likes.....

The Pro stones from Naniwa are littel faster then chosera, but only testet 800, 5000 and 10000......

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## JBroida

Posted in wrong thread


----------



## bugbear

Just to add a negative data point, I bought a JNS1K on the basis on many favourable comments; it was intended to be my workhorse stone in a 2 stone sequence (second stone, the lovely Suehiro Rika 5000).

The JNS (in fact) gave me close to zero abrasion/feedback on a VG-10 knife, nor my JCK Carbonext. The only way I could make it do anything useful was to use a fragment of King 6000 stone as a pseudo-nagura.

I no longer use it, and should probably sell it.

BugBear


----------



## chinacats

bugbear said:


> Just to add a negative data point, I bought a JNS1K on the basis on many favourable comments; it was intended to be my workhorse stone in a 2 stone sequence (second stone, the lovely Suehiro Rika 5000).
> 
> The JNS (in fact) gave me close to zero abrasion/feedback on a VG-10 knife, nor my JCK Carbonext. The only way I could make it do anything useful was to use a fragment of King 6000 stone as a pseudo-nagura.
> 
> I no longer use it, and should probably sell it.
> 
> BugBear




When the stone is new, you likely need to abrade it a bit too get to useable surface...


----------



## bugbear

chinacats said:


> When the stone is new, you likely need to abrade it a bit too get to useable surface...



Yes - that was suggested when I told my take of woe else where; It's been extensively/repeatedly flattened, to no avail. The behaviour is what it is.

BugBear


----------



## Marcelo Amaral

bugbear said:


> Just to add a negative data point, I bought a JNS1K on the basis on many favourable comments; it was intended to be my workhorse stone in a 2 stone sequence (second stone, the lovely Suehiro Rika 5000).
> 
> The JNS (in fact) gave me close to zero abrasion/feedback on a VG-10 knife, nor my JCK Carbonext. The only way I could make it do anything useful was to use a fragment of King 6000 stone as a pseudo-nagura.
> 
> I no longer use it, and should probably sell it.
> 
> BugBear



Are you sure you are hitting the edge? Mine is pretty fast both on carbon and on stainless. Not the fastest there is, but much faster than my previous 1k, a Mizuyama 1k stone. By the way, do you see any black slurry showing up?


----------



## bugbear

Marcelo Amaral said:


> Are you sure you are hitting the edge? Mine is pretty fast both on carbon and on stainless. Not the fastest there is, but much faster than my previous 1k, a Mizuyama 1k stone. By the way, do you see any black slurry showing up?



What does "hitting the edge" mean, please? (I even checked the jargon glossary)

EDIT: I googled, and found it; yes, I'm pretty confident, I use a "trick" (don't ask) so that I freehand sharpen at very repeatable angle, and I don't have this lack-of-abrasion issue on other stones.

(that difference would it make anyway - at the risk of an ugly double negative, it doesn't matter where I'm not getting abrasion)

BugBear


----------



## panda

marcelo, mizuyama, that is the stone from korin? they also have a togiharu house brand 1k that looks like a rebranded king deluxe.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral

Hi there bugbear, what i meant is that your stone could be abrading, but not at the right place (the edge). If you are getting a black slurry in your stone, it is abrading metal. Now, you'll only need to adjust the angle to get it right. If you paint your edge using a sharpie pen, you may see if you are hitting the edge. If you are positive the stone is not abrading anything, you might give Maxim a head's up and see what's going on.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral

Hi Panda. Yes, Mizuyama is the stone from Korin. The problem is that i don't think you'll like it very much as it is slower than JNS 1k. The feedback is great in my opinion ( it feels grainier/sandier than King). Never used Togiharu, but it sure looks like King!


----------



## bugbear

Marcelo Amaral said:


> Hi there bugbear, what i meant is that your stone could be abrading, but not at the right place (the edge). If you are getting a black slurry in your stone, it is abrading metal. Now, you'll only need to adjust the angle to get it right. If you paint your edge using a sharpie pen, you may see if you are hitting the edge. If you are positive the stone is not abrading anything, you might give Maxim a head's up and see what's going on.



Ah, I see. No, no black slurry, no friction, no metal removal. :-(

BugBear


----------



## panda

king hyper 1000 arrived and it is awesome. its single best trait is completely immune to clogging. it's hard and doesn't dish, good feedback and cuts pretty fast too. it could be slightly faster and feedback could be more silky, but it's right below the sweet spot on those two points and that's perfectly ok as this is a great compromise. i don't think i could ask for much more than what this stone brings to the table in terms of balance of the traits i look for.

i can't believe nobody talks about this stone, i guess cause it's a king people think 'why even bother?'

this will be living in its own dedicated third pan pond happily permasoaking near the sink.


----------



## Ruso

Is hyper a different stone compared to regular King (Deluxe)?


----------



## panda

it is TOTALLY different plus dense & heavy. it's a high end stone in the level of choseras.

oh, in the photo the edges have a chunk missing cause i dropped it while carrying it into work


----------



## foody518

panda said:


> king hyper 1000 arrived and it is awesome. its single best trait is completely immune to clogging. it's hard and doesn't dish, good feedback and cuts pretty fast too. it could be slightly faster and feedback could be more silky, but it's right below the sweet spot on those two points and that's perfectly ok as this is a great compromise. i don't think i could ask for much more than what this stone brings to the table in terms of balance of the traits i look for.
> 
> i can't believe nobody talks about this stone, i guess cause it's a king people think 'why even bother?'
> 
> this will be living in its own dedicated third pan pond happily permasoaking near the sink.



Looks very swarfy! Nice pickup
I'll admit having a King bias as well. So much is written about the dishing of the standard line...but my first one (King Neo 800) should be coming in soon...


----------



## mcritchlow

Very interesting. Hadn't even heard of it. Your description of the properties/tradeoffs does indeed make it sound pretty ideal for a 1k.


----------



## Krassi

Wow!
So you finally got YOUR 1k  .. nice and puhh lucky that only a little bit broke of ! So its a hard stone 
Really interesting because really no one had this stone on the radar.
No clogging on a 1k!! Wow thats sick.. 

I got my own Ai1000 yesterday but i know what i get and wanted it badly 

Seeya Daniel!


----------



## berko

i liked the king hyper 1k as well but unfortunately sold it when i was looking for splash an goes. did you buy yours as a second now? also, the king hypers come in different hardness, soft and hard. any idea which one you have? has anybody tried the king hyper 2k?


----------



## panda

krassi: the unofficial spokesperson for watanabe synthetics.  i will be trading my ai1000 for a chosera 800 shortly. it's a hell of a stone (ai1000), i just thought it fell a little short on the feedback department but the pure speed more than makes up for it.

yes i found MY 1k, finally!! berko actually helped confirm my suspicions on this hidden gem through PMs, thanks dude. for those reading this thread though, keep in mind i am extremely particular when it comes to stone preferences, i would take my posts with a grain of salt as what i say probably doesnt apply to most of you out there. plus i have yet to try gesshin 1200 or newer JNS 1000 or sigma 1000 (i really dig that it's a black stone, kind of want to try one just because of that lol).

i didnt feel like creating a new account for the buyee site and dealing with translation barriers so got mine new from ebay, took just over 3 weeks for delivery via free shipping. i have the hard version, not a fan of soft stones. the soft version is cheaper also if anybody was interested.


----------



## berko

> i would take my posts with a grain of salt as what i say probably doesnt apply to most of you out there



yea, i bought an ikkarashi just because of you and didnt like it at all  then again its a natural stone, and we know they all vary...


----------



## labor of love

berko said:


> i liked the king hyper 1k as well but unfortunately sold it when i was looking for splash an goes. did you buy yours as a second now? also, the king hypers come in different hardness, soft and hard. any idea which one you have? has anybody tried the king hyper 2k?



Answer the question panda, did you buy the soft or the hard?


----------



## panda

I did answer it, read my last post


----------



## Lars

How can you tell what is the regular and what is the hard King Hyper 1K?

Lars


----------



## panda

I dunno, but the soft version is specified on eBay.


----------



## bennyprofane

Panda, could you post an ebay link to the hard one, I can only find the soft one...


----------



## panda

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-KING...%3Ae2431cfb1590a60cca2bdc67ffad7207%7Ciid%3A1

It appears hard is standard. Soft version is marked on the box bellow where ot says 1000 in a white rectangle background on the text.


----------



## panda

berko said:


> yea, i bought an ikkarashi just because of you and didnt like it at all  then again its a natural stone, and we know they all vary...



Haha sorry berk. Was yours from jns? What did you not like about it?


----------



## panda

sorry guys, i just checked my box and it has the white background sticker with black text indicating it is the SOFT version. so now i want to try the standard version!


----------



## bennyprofane

So the one you linked to is also the soft version? Where is the hard version then?


----------



## valgard

Does anyone know if the one that Chubo carries is the soft or hard one?


----------



## panda

The ebay link I posted is standard version. Keep in mind mine is soft version and I love it (I prefer hard stones btw) this is pretty hard stone still..

You can figure out which version because it says 'soft version' on eBay listing also white text box below the "1000" on the box.

I doubt there is much difference, standard probably dishes slower.


----------



## berko

the jns ikkarashi was just too slow for my prefernece and worked way better on stainless steel than on carbons.





looks like i had the standard hardness. all i remember is it doesnt load up, has awesome feedback and cuts plenty fast. metalmaster offers them as seconds for cheap on his yahoo auctions:

http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/v475488926

http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/p541423996


----------



## panda

Yeah I remember always saying how good ikarashi was on stainless even though I don't own any stainless &#128513;

The single greatest trait of the hyper is it's resistance to loading, that alone won me over. I'll probably order myself a standard one just out of curiosity.


----------



## Krassi

Oh! i can totally confrim this with Ikarashi and Stainless- especially Standard Solingen Germany Stainless Steel knifes Work awesome on a Ikarashi... It cuts the Steel like a Chainsaw with quick dark Grey swarf..
I got 2 nice ones that are similar but one is finer one is faster.


----------



## valgard

:goodpost:


berko said:


> the jns ikkarashi was just too slow for my prefernece and worked way better on stainless steel than on carbons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks like i had the standard hardness. all i remember is it doesnt load up, has awesome feedback and cuts plenty fast. metalmaster offers them as seconds for cheap on his yahoo auctions:
> 
> http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/v475488926
> 
> http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/p541423996


----------



## Keith Sinclair

Panda how are you liking your Hyper? Using it as a S&G at work?


----------



## labor of love

keithsaltydog said:


> Panda how are you liking your Hyper? Using it as a S&G at work?



Welcome back Keith!


----------



## panda

Keith, I'm.loving this stone. It's a soaker so it lives in a 3rd pan in a secret spot at work
. I just sharpened my suji today, took 45 seconds.

I'll be doing a comparison with chosera 800 later on.


----------



## JBroida

i remember when i tested this stone (the soft one) it felt awesome and cut fast, but dished rather quickly... has that been your experience so far?


----------



## panda

i've only used it a few times, but i don't notice any dishing. then again i use very light pressure and i know you've got a heavy hand


----------



## Keith Sinclair

panda said:


> i've only used it a few times, but i don't notice any dishing. then again i use very light pressure and i know you've got a heavy hand



Some reason thought it was a S&G. I have a heavy hand too taking the shoulders off the V grinds of Mercers & Victorinox knives. Do that on the Gesshin 600 S&G. I got the large size worn it down about a 1/3 over almost two years. My own trained knives much less pressure.

Howzit Craig been busy working on the house & the yard, garden etc. + 4 days a week at the school.


----------



## berko

> I'll be doing a comparison with chosera 800 later on.



can't wait!


----------



## panda

Berko, just buy the standard version again so we can compare notes &#128578;


----------



## Gareth1

This sounds like a great stone and not expensive at all. I have a large standard King 1200 and a Rika 5000. How would the feedback compare to those? Sorry, my only points of reference. Love the feedback on the Rika! King 1200 not so much. I didn't mind it until I got the Rika. 

Thanks,
Gareth


----------



## panda

wayyyy better feedback


----------



## Matus

Just a quick question to clarify the situation around the King 1000 stones. Do I understand correctly that there are just two: the 'normal' one and the 'hyper', the hyper being softer (also much more expensive, at least here in DE) than the normal one?


----------



## panda

there are 2 versions of the hyper. the standard, and a soft. it is an entirely different series from the normal king 1000 deluxe model.


----------



## panda

i'm really confused now. it appears i DO have the normal 'hard' version.
listing where i bought it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262703031006
the same seller lists the soft version
http://www.ebay.com/itm//252618416214

the printing on the two stones look different. easier difference being the photo from the listing i bought mine it says 'made in japan' on the bottom where the soft version does not.


----------



## panda

there is also suehiro debado 1k, i wonder what that is like
http://www.knivesandstones.com/suehiro-debado-1000wa-md-100-waterstone/


----------



## Jovidah

panda said:


> there is also suehiro debado 1k, i wonder what that is like
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/suehiro-debado-1000wa-md-100-waterstone/



Might be the same as the Gesshin 1000?


----------



## chinacats

Jovidah said:


> Might be the same as the Gesshin 1000?



???


----------



## JBroida

Jovidah said:


> Might be the same as the Gesshin 1000?



But it's not


----------



## foody518

panda said:


> i'm really confused now. it appears i DO have the normal 'hard' version.
> listing where i bought it:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/262703031006
> the same seller lists the soft version
> http://www.ebay.com/itm//252618416214
> 
> the printing on the two stones look different. easier difference being the photo from the listing i bought mine it says 'made in japan' on the bottom where the soft version does not.



Prices on that eBay listing are wonky. I swear just the other day it was listed at $56


----------



## Jovidah

Damnit. Just when you think you have the confusopoly of sharpening stones figured out...


----------



## berko

i talked to stu about the difference between cerax 1k and debado 1k, he said that the cerax is faster, but the debado has better feedback and dishes less.



> Berko, just buy the standard version again so we can compare notes &#128578;



must resist wanting to rebuy stones that i already sold once, its hard enough without that...


----------



## panda

Foody the soft one is listed at 56. Regular costs more. That is consistent with other sellers as well.


----------



## Jovidah

Surprisingly no one linked this yet in this thread.... so I figured I'd link this. It's a pretty comprehensive review of 1000 grit stones by a Japanese retailer. It's a few years old and doesn't cover all the brands, but still pretty useful I'd say:

Results 1
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=672

Results 2
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=678

Results 3
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=726

Results 4
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=756

Results 5
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=713

If you want the whole background and methodology, just click backwards towards the older posts; there's 3 posts in which he explains the whole how and why. 
It's the most comprehensive (and one of the rare few) attempts at objective comparisons of sharpening stones I've seen on the net.
It also explains quite a few of the conflicting / contradicting / confusing arguments floating around.


----------



## JBroida

panda said:


> i'm really confused now. it appears i DO have the normal 'hard' version.
> listing where i bought it:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/262703031006
> the same seller lists the soft version
> http://www.ebay.com/itm//252618416214
> 
> the printing on the two stones look different. easier difference being the photo from the listing i bought mine it says 'made in japan' on the bottom where the soft version does not.



that makes a lot more sense to me... the harder one acts more like what you're describing


----------



## panda

to make things easy, i've been informed blueway carries the hyper now, both versions.
here is the standard one (cause i don't think anybody wants the soft version? i could be wrong)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Whetstone-KING-HYPER-1000-Grit-Standard-Hardness-/381953048275

standard shipping is expensive, but probably get it in 1-2 weeks instead of 3 or 4

but i would just wait and get it from japanissimo with free shipping, the seller i got mine from. they've lowered the price too. normally i say pay the fee for faster delivery, but in this case it's a huge difference. because it's a smaller scale. $257 vs 290 is not as big deal. but 57 vs 90 is hard pill to swallow.


----------



## LucasFur

I am not a 1k stone master ... but here is another option for you if you desire. https://www.toshoknifearts.com/collections/stones/products/konosuke-sakura-1000-br-whetstone 

I use this then my 3k super stone and it feels like a konosuke fresh out of the box.


----------



## Badgertooth

Not to throw a spanner in the works but there are in fact three versions of the King Hyper 1000:
Soft; standard; hard. Good hunting


----------



## panda

how can you tell?

chubo knives offers king hyper now. lol did i help start a new demand for these? are they based in the US? http://www.chuboknives.com/products/king-1000-hyper-medium-sharpening-stone


----------



## bennyprofane

Its relatively cheap available in Germany here: https://www.dictum.com/en/sharpenin...-sharpening-stone-bdquo-hyper-ldquo-grit-1000

No idea which version. They say its softer than the regular King. Do all versions look the same?

Edit: Actually on the Japanissimo page, the soft version has an extra Kanji below the black line, so it appears the version I linked to is not the soft version. Interesting that the hard version is still described as softer than the regular King which is quite soft already. Please keep us updated on how fast it dishes, panda.


----------



## berko

dictum has the standard hardness.


----------



## Badgertooth

Assessment to follow after weekend. Standard hardness King Hyper 1000:





Very generously discounted by Metalmaster for tiny defect that I'm not even going to bother lapping out for now.


----------



## TheCaptain

Looking forward to it!


----------



## panda

Benny I'm really confused why they would list it as soft, it is definitely a hard stone. I would have dismissed it otherwise as I don't care for soft ones.

Been so busy haven't even done touchups, just getting by using mac black on misono carbon lol. I'll report for sure when I give it serious use. Still gotta compare with chosera 800 as well.


----------



## Krassi

@Panda 
Since its Dictum.. they "invent" the weirdest stuff.. 
Double bevel nakiris are called usuba. 
Amakusa jnats are just calle "aka"(its like i call a red ferrari just "red"..like "i drive with my red") 

So thats Dictum magic!  And no need to be confused.


----------



## Badgertooth

This thing is like a turkey singing Megadeth...



... It gobbles metal.












And I may have found a solution to that pesky Tanaka ginsanko cladding problem


----------



## foody518

Wow! Good finish on that stainless cladding


----------



## TheCaptain

Badgertooth said:


> Assessment to follow after weekend. Standard hardness King Hyper 1000:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very generously discounted by Metalmaster for tiny defect that I'm not even going to bother lapping out for now.



I will be very interested to read this. Tried finding this stone in Metalmaster's store but no go? I was shocked at how much of a difference the AI#1000 from Watanabe made and am actually working up more than a mild interest in synthetics...


----------



## Garm

After looking at Matsunaga's webpage(Japanese section and not English), it seems the way of identifying the soft version from the standard Hyper is by the number of kanji below the 1000 stamp and the line on the stones themselves. The soft version will have seven symbols and the standard version will have four.
So before buying one I would check out a picture of the stone itself rather than the box.


----------



## richard

Have you considered the Shapton Pro 1000x?


----------

