# Cheap stones in Canada for beginner



## Gareth (Apr 9, 2016)

Hi All,

I have a cck 1302 and 1103 and a bunch of Stainless steel knives that are about mid grade. Looking for some economical stones to keep things sharp. I have played around a bit with a very large hard and smooth stone I got from chinatown years ago but I am basically a newbie to sharpening. There is much less choice here in Canada and importing low cost stones from the U.S. you lose any savings with the shipping. The local Lee Valley carries the king 800, 1000, 1200, 4000, and 1000/4000. The 1000/4000 would be the easiest and cheapest but I have heard quite negative things about both the 1000 and 4000 here. The 1200 sounds like a good one though as Dave Martell and others seem to love it and I think it would be a good stone for me as I plan to keep my knives in good shape so am looking more at maintaining the edge. If I got the large 1200, I could add either the large King 4000 for $72 CAD or the Imanishi 4000 for $80. CAD, both available locally from Lee Valley. Another option would be to get a Naniwa 3000 or 5000 super stone from Pauls Finest for about $72 or $80 CAD respectively. They also carry a Naniwa 1000/5000 combo super stone for $95. CAD which would be the cheapest option. 

Thanks very much for any suggestions or thoughts!

All the best,
Garth


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## mqphoto (Apr 9, 2016)

King combo 1/6K best value for beginners =)


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## fujiyama (Apr 9, 2016)

Hi Garth,

I always avoid combo stones. 

For King, 1200 & 4000 is a better option. For $72 CAD, hands down the cheapest.

For Naniwa Super Stone, the 1000 and 3000 are a better option. This costs $133. Silly expensive. You're better off with a single stone - the Naniwa Professional 1000 for just $87. Still more costly than the two King stones. 

I assume you don't yet have a preference for hard or soft stones. The Naniwa Pro is a hard, slow dishing stone. Complete opposite of the King, which is a soft quick wearing stone.


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## aboynamedsuita (Apr 9, 2016)

I've bought my atoma plates from LV here in Winnipeg, and got my Chosera stones (similar to Naniwa professional) from Paul's finest earlier. Had I thought to look at LV for sharpening stones (who knew?) beforehand, I'm sure I would've found a set there


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## fujiyama (Apr 9, 2016)

It's too bad Paul sold most of the original Naniwa Chosera stones. They were on sale for a long time!


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## spoiledbroth (Apr 9, 2016)

LV carries a lot more than king and if the local one does not they will surely ship a bester to the local location for you if you ask nicely, or should. You can also import stones directly from Japan quite easily and typically unless they are expensive jnats will not be assessed for customs by Canada post. Easy enough to find through eBay or Amazon or rakuten if you are adventurous.

Go back to lee valley and ask for the bester 1000 or 800 stone you saw in their online catalogue. Peruse their full size waterstone category for a polishing stone and you're set, and can even return the stone on the off chance it is somehow defective. The king 6k is not a bad stone at all. I don't care for the models with the plastic base glued on and had some issues perma soaking the stone in a working kitchen, however it left good edges and did not dish as badly as the lower grit kings. My bester 1000 from lee valley serves me well!


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## Gareth1 (Apr 9, 2016)

miyabi said:


> Hi Garth,
> 
> I always avoid combo stones.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this. Just to clarify, the King 4000 (large) is $72, the large 1200 is $38. The combo King 1000/4000 9large size) is $92. So you think I would be better off to just go with a Naniwa Professional 1000 and forget about a higher grit stone? They also sell the 1000/5000 superstone for $95.


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## berko (Apr 9, 2016)

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store...t_info&cPath=335_405_583_585&products_id=2055


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## fujiyama (Apr 9, 2016)

Being Canadian I'll vouch for Tools From Japan. Cheap shipping and in my experience, no worry of extra costs. 

They sell Shapton Pro stones and many others. The best Suehiro stones are available but the 1000 grit alone is over $160. If you like the Suehiro Rika line I suggest buying the 1000 and 5000 separate. 



Gareth1 said:


> Thanks for this. Just to clarify, the King 4000 (large) is $72, the large 1200 is $38. The combo King 1000/4000 9large size) is $92. So you think I would be better off to just go with a Naniwa Professional 1000 and forget about a higher grit stone? They also sell the 1000/5000 superstone for $95.



No problem! 

Funny coincidence, it comes to $71.40 for the standard King 4000 (with no base) & King 1200. I skimmed over the fact that you were quoting the large King (which honestly isn't a requirement). So I rounded it up to $72. :lol2:

The Naniwa Pro 1000 is a great single stone to have. Leaves an edge that any chef will appreciate.


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## jessf (Apr 9, 2016)

I've collected 7 stones in short order. A combination os bester, sigma, naniwa, king and norton. They all cut differently on different steel. The norton 220 does a piss poor job on D2 steel, but my king 800 and 1200 do a fine job on the same steel, and with less dishing than the norton. If you know someone that might buy it off you, don't be afraid to test a few brands on your various knives.


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## Gareth1 (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for all the input! I went to Lee Valley yesterday and picked up the King 1200 and played with it a little bit on my cleavers. As I mentioned before, I have a large grey stone I got from Chinatown years ago which seem to be a very high grit, maybe 10,000(?) and almost exactly the same size as the large King. I have taken it to a couple of knife stores and no one seems to have a clue but they say it is a good stone. No idea how you can tell that just my looking. Anyway, I sharpened my cleavers with the King and finished with the other stone and things got noticeably sharper. Lee Valley has sharpening classes from time to time so I may take on and see what they say about that stone. Perhaps I can get away without buying another stone. I think I may just see how I do with this combination for a bit. Likely it is too big a jump from the 1200 to whatever my other stone is but if it works..... If it doesn't, I guess I would look at either a 3000 or 5000 grit Naniwa from Paul's or the Bester/Imanishi 4000 from Lee Valley.

Cheers,
Garth


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## aboynamedsuita (Apr 10, 2016)

Gareth1 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thanks so much for all the input! I went to Lee Valley yesterday and picked up the King 1200 and played with it a little bit on my cleavers. As I mentioned before, I have a large grey stone I got from Chinatown years ago which seem to be a very high grit, maybe 10,000(?) and almost exactly the same size as the large King. I have taken it to a couple of knife stores and no one seems to have a clue but they say it is a good stone. No idea how you can tell that just my looking. Anyway, I sharpened my cleavers with the King and finished with the other stone and things got noticeably sharper. Lee Valley has sharpening classes from time to time so I may take on and see what they say about that stone. Perhaps I can get away without buying another stone. I think I may just see how I do with this combination for a bit. Likely it is too big a jump from the 1200 to whatever my other stone is but if it works..... If it doesn't, I guess I would look at either a 3000 or 5000 grit Naniwa from Paul's or the Bester/Imanishi 4000 from Lee Valley.
> 
> ...



Which Lee Valley do you go to? I took the evening class in Winnipeg some time ago and will say that it is more targeted towards the average home user. Everyone brought their cheap stainless, I brought my cheap moritaka AS gyuto. We used king 1000 and 4000 stones, and the drywall screen & glass plate to flatten (reasonable hack for a home user / moderate enthusiast). Started with a brief lecture on the basics (angle, apex, burrs, grits, etc.), then got into the hands on. There was also mention of the "bottom of the coffee mug" trick :spin chair:
The technique was what I remember being the most unique part we were encouraged sharpen the entire length of the blade one pass at a time, then flip over and repeat one stroke per side. Although there are many ways to make a piece of metal sharp(er), the consensus IMO is the sections per side similar to the JKI videos, although bob Kramer uses the entire length in his videos. 

Bottom line the knife would be sharper than at the start of the class; I ended up reverting to the technique I was most comfortable with. If they're still only ~$25 CAD I suppose there are worse ways to spend money. The best benefit I thought is that I was actually dedicated to sharping for several hours something I have difficulty to do at home

Edit- I should add that I got the knife sharp enough that I cut thru my nail similar to knerd in this thread (post 4):
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/12294-Cut-through-nail

Here's the pic from the thread in case you don't want to click the link:




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## Gareth1 (Apr 10, 2016)

tjangula said:


> Which Lee Valley do you go to? I took the evening class in Winnipeg some time ago and will say that it is more targeted towards the average home user. Everyone brought their cheap stainless, I brought my cheap moritaka AS gyuto. We used king 1000 and 4000 stones, and the drywall screen & glass plate to flatten (reasonable hack for a home user / moderate enthusiast). Started with a brief lecture on the basics (angle, apex, burrs, grits, etc.), then got into the hands on. There was also mention of the "bottom of the coffee mug" trick :spin chair:
> The technique was what I remember being the most unique part we were encouraged sharpen the entire length of the blade one pass at a time, then flip over and repeat one stroke per side. Although there are many ways to make a piece of metal sharp(er), the consensus IMO is the sections per side similar to the JKI videos, although bob Kramer uses the entire length in his videos.
> 
> Bottom line the knife would be sharper than at the start of the class; I ended up reverting to the technique I was most comfortable with. If they're still only ~$25 CAD I suppose there are worse ways to spend money. The best benefit I thought is that I was actually dedicated to sharping for several hours something I have difficulty to do at home
> ...



Ouch! It is the Lee Valley just outside of Victoria B.C. I think the class is free. I tend to use the whole blade in one pass technique but am also experimenting with sections. 

Cheers,
Garth


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 15, 2016)

Gareth1 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thanks so much for all the input! I went to Lee Valley yesterday and picked up the King 1200 and played with it a little bit on my cleavers. As I mentioned before, I have a large grey stone I got from Chinatown years ago which seem to be a very high grit, maybe 10,000(?) and almost exactly the same size as the large King. I have taken it to a couple of knife stores and no one seems to have a clue but they say it is a good stone. No idea how you can tell that just my looking. Anyway, I sharpened my cleavers with the King and finished with the other stone and things got noticeably sharper. Lee Valley has sharpening classes from time to time so I may take on and see what they say about that stone. Perhaps I can get away without buying another stone. I think I may just see how I do with this combination for a bit. Likely it is too big a jump from the 1200 to whatever my other stone is but if it works..... If it doesn't, I guess I would look at either a 3000 or 5000 grit Naniwa from Paul's or the Bester/Imanishi 4000 from Lee Valley.
> 
> ...



Sounds good Garth a free class cannot hurt many ways to sharpen a knife. I would suggest checking out Jon's sharpening at(knife sharpening playlist). The advantage of the sectional method is that finger pad pressure is closer to the edge cutting bevels is faster and more efficient when you master it.


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## Gareth1 (Apr 17, 2016)

Thanks Keith, and everyone else. Enjoying getting to know the King Stone. Very different from my very hard and very smooth Chinatown stone of unknown make and grit. Knife store folks have guessed my old stone to be around 10,000 which feels about right, comparatively, to me. It is probably acting more like a hone than anything else.

I suspect before too long I may want to get either that Imanishi 4000 or Naniwa 3000/5000 Super Stone to fill in the gap. I can get both these stones in Canada for around $80. CAD. Although perhaps it makes sense to just concentrate on "learning" my King Stone until I feel I am approaching the limit of its potential sharpening effect on my CCK cleavers. I doubt I am there yet! Opinions?

Any suggestions re. Imanishi 4000 vs Naniwa 3000 and 5000 would be welcome!

Thanks,
Gareth


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