# Watanabe Stones



## nutmeg

I was already fan of the knives made by Watanabe, now I had to try his stones.

At first, here are some pictures of the same blade sharpened with five of his stones. The AI#1000, Ikarashi-do, Shiro Suita from Maruo Yama, Shiro Suita from Ohira and Ao Renge.

(In fact I hadn't any knife needing to be sharpened with a coarser stone than a Shiro Suita, so this one is an horrible Aura borrowed from a colleague)


AI#1000




Ikarashi-do, hardness 5/10:




Shiro Suita, Maruo-Yama, hardness 6/10 :




Shiro Suita, Ohira, hardness 7/10 :













Ao Renge, Ohira, hardness 8/10 :


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## nutmeg

I can't edit my previous message anymore, so this is with some descriptions


AI#1000
The beast, very fast and agressive. I got this in maybe 20-30 seconds.




Ikarashi-do, hardness 5/10:
Very strong shaping power for for a Jnat. The blade is not clean yet but not so scratchy too. 
Sharp enough for most of kitchen tasks. 




Shiro Suita, Maruo-Yama, hardness 6/10 :
Very strong shaping power, the slurry comes in a few strokes ans stays constant. Very nice haze finish. It remembers me an Uchigumori Hazuya. 
To me it is the last finishing stone people need for a kitchen knife. 




Shiro Suita, Ohira, hardness 7/10 :
Beautiful stone, great feeling. I use it with another small shiro suita als nagura. Very nice semi-mirror finish.
It leaves a sharpness that people need only for high end cuisine.













Ao Renge, Ohira, hardness 8/10 :
With nagura, quite fast stone. Mirror finish.
Sharp enough to cut basil leaves-brunoise without its color changes 









Actually, this is the sharpness I got with this stone on a petty:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FndYUdUlPg&feature=youtu.be


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## nutmeg

Next time, combo synthetic #1000 and #8000.


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## Matus

Very interesting thank you. The way that petty cuts the hair in the video also tells something about your sharpening skills.


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## Badgertooth

That cutting was most impressive. I can echo the insights on Shinichi's Ikarashi, maruoyama shiro suita and Ohira shiro suita. I think you have described it perfectly.


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## nutmeg

nutmeg said:


> Next time, combo synthetic #1000 and #8000.



and once again with an horrible Aura knife! I "understand" lot of knives but these ones, not. They haven't really been made to be used.
Dull, the knife. 
In this condition you can't cut anything with it. Impossible to slice a hard tomato or cut parsley for example:


picupload


Kostenlos Bilder hochladen

The AI#1000 is a nice tool!


Kostenloses Bilderhosting

After about 4 minutes:


kostenlos bilder hochladen


And now the Kitayama #8000.
About 40 seconds to raise an effective slurry with the nagura and then 7-8 minutes to get this:


bilder kostenlos


direct upload

After this stone, my knives are very sharp. 
So ok it is not as sharp as with the from above Jnats but for a human use it is already too sharp. I don't know any tasks where one would need a finer edge.

And.. I got this sharpness in say, 12 minutes.
With the jnats yesterday, I needed about 40 minutes.


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## nutmeg

with Jnats or synthetic I could do it a bit quicker. At work for exemple I could do it in maybe 2/3 the time but I think this time is representative of a stress-free sharpening and good results.


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## nutmeg

Anyway even if there are some very light scratches from #1000 they could be soon removed after a few sharpening with only the #8000. 
And even if a finer say#2000 stone would have its place here between the two, some can see on the pictures that the combination Ai#1000\ #8000 works. 
Fast and good. I find it optimal for professionals whose knives dull fast and who don't have many time to sharpen.


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## Krakorak

Really useful contribution, it makes me want to try the Maruo and maybe even Ao renge suita even more (I already have one Ohira Suita from Maxim for a few weeks, which opened a new world of sharpness and edge retention for me)! I wish there would be more so concise, but instructive threads about Jnats, based on side by side comparisons!


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## nutmeg

I like the haze finish from Ohira Uchigumori and Shiro Suita from Maruo-Yama.....



bilder uploaden


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## nutmeg

kostenlos bilder hochladen



[url=ht


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## nutmeg

same knife


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## fatboylim

Great write up! Say, if you had to chose one of these stones as a finishing stone with bite, which would you pick?


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## Matus

fatboylim said:


> Great write up! Say, if you had to chose one of these stones as a finishing stone with bite, which would you pick?



+1 Wit be Ohira Uchigumori , or Maru Shiro-Suita ?


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## Krakorak

nutmeg said:


> I like the haze finish from Ohira Uchigumori and Shiro Suita from Maruo-Yama.....
> 
> 
> 
> bilder uploaden



I am curious to hear which one do you like more and to what degree are they similar; I have just ordered a Maruo shiro suita and consider Ohira uchigumori as well, but assume, they are quite similar stones, regarding the finish and feedback...


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## nutmeg

The differences are slight bigger in real than on the picture..
The Maruo Shiro Suita leves a slight scratchier jigane and with Uchigumori it was a bit more finer and uniform finish with the biggest contrast.
So I would naturally pick the Uchigumori to polish.

But, wich one is the most useful?
as profesional chef I like fast tools and the Maruo Shiro Suita is definitely a very, very fast one. Not the finest but fast and clean, that's why I like the Maruo so much!!


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## nutmeg

Here are other pictures to make your own mind about the stones.

Uchigumori Hazuya, Ohira 


bilder upload

Shiro Suita, Maruo-Yama


bild hochladen

Uchigumori Hazuya, Ohira 


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Shiro Suita, Maruo-Yama


bild hochladen

As you can see I didn't polished the whole blade, just enough to show the effects of the stones.


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## Krakorak

Wow, great pictures, many thanks! The finish from teh Uchigumori is really beautiful!


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## nutmeg

Krakorak said:


> Wow, great pictures, many thanks! The finish from teh Uchigumori is really beautiful!



and also quick done!
The stone is quite fast too.


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## Krakorak

nutmeg said:


> and also quick done!
> The stone is quite fast too.



Yeah, Shinichi mentions it on his webpage as well...I have finally picked an Ao Renge Suita, next to the Maruo, really looking forward to try them! I would like to try the uchigumori as well, but Shinichi mentioned the Ao renge are his final stock (contrary to Ohira uchigumori), so I decided to get this one first...


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## nutmeg

Even if I've never fount his stones particularely expensive it's really time to make a nice collection with his Christmas Sales! And as I am not sure to find the Ao anywhere else I could buy a second one....
The Ao Renge is very useful and fast with nagura. I didn't use it a long time but since I've made the pictures for the forum it became my everyday finishing stone, even for workhorses in the restaurant. Btw the Benriner mandoline became now an insane tool! It slices food as if was made out of air &#128512; I'll make pictures this next days.


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## Matus

Indeed. I just got buch of stuff from Shinichi and got a very attractive discout on every single item (I did not buy any knives ... sounds strange saying that loud  )


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## Krakorak

nutmeg said:


> Even if I've never fount his stones particularely expensive it's really time to make a nice collection with his Christmas Sales! And as I am not sure to find the Ao anywhere else I could buy a second one....
> The Ao Renge is very useful and fast with nagura. I didn't use it a long time but since I've made the pictures for the forum it became my everyday finishing stone, even for workhorses in the restaurant. Btw the Benriner mandoline became now an insane tool! It slices food as if was made out of air &#128512; I'll make pictures this next days.



He writes that he is the only vendor who sells them, which is not 100% true, Metalmaster has currently two in stock as well (under the name black renge suita), as I was informed by one of the KKF knife nuts, but I like those by Shinichi more, at least visually...And I also got a really big discount (more than 40%) on both stones...and he seemed to be open to offer an attractive discount on basically everything I was considering...So if somebody wants to get a stone from him, it seems to be the right time now!


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## ynot1985

Matus said:


> Indeed. I just got buch of stuff from Shinichi and got a very attractive discout on every single item (I did not buy any knives ... sounds strange saying that loud  )



I'm in the same boat, i have brought numerous stones off him but have never tried any of his knives


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## aboynamedsuita

I've gotten both knives and stones been eyeing the Ao renge Suita as well.

Who's the lucky guy who got #5?






I was gonna grab that later this week on payday :nunchucks:, but now am actually eyeing a bigger one, so should say thanks instead lol


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## Matus

Not me, I just got a nice old Aoto, small uchigumori (plus one super cheap for fingerstones), little Ikarashi-do (could not resist) and small hard Nakayama and ... lo and behold ... a Kamisori (was contemplating to try one for a long time and for this price I could not say no). I would have loved to get Shiro Suita from Marua, but I suppose Shin did not have a stone for me (or at least not in my price range).


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## Krakorak

tjangula said:


> I've gotten both knives and stones been eyeing the Ao renge Suita as well.
> 
> Who's the lucky guy who got #5?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was gonna grab that later this week on payday :nunchucks:, but now am actually eyeing a bigger one, so should say thanks instead lol



You are welcome:wink:! And I am quite sure you are interested in Nr. 2, so take it before it will be gone as well (as I know, there are several people interested in Ao Renge suitas currently, probably mostly due to this thread), I considered that as well, so Shinichi kindly put a discounted price for both!


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## foody518

Krakorak said:


> He writes that he is the only vendor who sells them, which is not 100% true, Metalmaster has currently two in stock as well (under the name black renge suita), as I was informed by one of the KKF knife nuts, but I like those by Shinichi more, at least visually...And I also got a really big discount (more than 40%) on both stones...and he seemed to be open to offer an attractive discount on basically everything I was considering...So if somebody wants to get a stone from him, it seems to be the right time now!



I have not bought from Shinichi before; what is the buying process like, and under what conditions does he tend to offer a discount?


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## Matus

foody518 said:


> I have not bought from Shinichi before; what is the buying process like, and under what conditions does he tend to offer a discount?



If you want some particular stone than just write him an email and ásk about a possible discount. Once you get it he will adjust the price on his webpage and then you use the 'order' butten at the bottom, fill-in a formular and in the description put the name of the item. It sounds a little strange, but it works fine. You will later get an email from him to pay via PayPal. Shinichi answers fast and is very helpful. Me and Krakorak have both had a lot of questions and we didn't manage to push him to his limits quite yet


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## nutmeg

Matus said:


> Not me, I just got a nice old Aoto, small uchigumori (plus one super cheap for fingerstones), little Ikarashi-do (could not resist) and small hard Nakayama and ... lo and behold ... a Kamisori (was contemplating to try one for a long time and for this price I could not say no). I would have loved to get Shiro Suita from Marua, but I suppose Shin did not have a stone for me (or at least not in my price range).



I got some kamisoris from Shinichi, they are the Sharpness itself. Their Edges are wonderfully polished.


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## aboynamedsuita

foody518 said:


> I have not bought from Shinichi before; what is the buying process like, and under what conditions does he tend to offer a discount?





Matus said:


> If you want some particular stone than just write him an email and ásk about a possible discount. Once you get it he will adjust the price on his webpage and then you use the 'order' butten at the bottom, fill-in a formular and in the description put the name of the item. It sounds a little strange, but it works fine. You will later get an email from him to pay via PayPal. Shinichi answers fast and is very helpful. Me and Krakorak have both had a lot of questions and we didn't manage to push him to his limits quite yet




I've ordered honyaki and kintaro-ame knives as well as stones and have always just used email. He'll confirm via email with shipping in sort of in an invoice-esque manner, then I PayPal as G&S. Tracking number follows in due course.

There's a really nice aka renge Suita I was considering on sale but I ended up with a GIANT Ao renge Suita so had to pass on the other one.


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## tgfencer

tjangula said:


>



Nice grab! That sale is tempting. Plue Jon is getting j-nats in stock this week and next at JKI. I sense a smaller wallet in my future.


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## ynot1985

no one touch number 2.. im eying that lol


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## Matus

Just a quick info for those who, similar to me got the urge to get a Shiro suita from Maruo-Yama from Shinichi - he is out of these and will only get some new ones once he visits the mine sometimes in the spring next year.


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## Badgertooth

But well worth it. This is what you're missing:

https://youtu.be/lVI7sfz6e2A


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## Krakorak

tjangula said:


> I've ordered honyaki and kintaro-ame knives as well as stones and have always just used email. He'll confirm via email with shipping in sort of in an invoice-esque manner, then I PayPal as G&S. Tracking number follows in due course.
> 
> There's a really nice aka renge Suita I was considering on sale but I ended up with a GIANT Ao renge Suita so had to pass on the other one.



So finally this one! But its great as well, a REAL brick!

And I was eying that aka renge Nr. 7 for a long time as well, somebody will be really happy, Shinichi described it simply as "perfect"!


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## ynot1985

Krakorak said:


> So finally this one! But its great as well, a REAL brick!
> 
> And I was eying that aka renge Nr. 7 for a long time as well, somebody will be really happy, Shinichi described it simply as "perfect"!



He tried to sell me 7 too but I was holding out for 1 .. and damn someone snapped that one


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## tgfencer

ynot1985 said:


> He tried to sell me 7 too but I was holding out for 1 .. and damn someone snapped that one



Friends at the forums, opponents at the shopping cart.


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## nutmeg

Waiting for these beauties 

http://watanabeblade.com/english/special/img/akarenge22x75x204_big.jpg

http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/img/akarenge26x68x185_big.jpg


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## nutmeg

One of you guys grabbed this one?

http://watanabeblade.com/english/special/img/akarenge25x74x203_big.jpg


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## ynot1985

it was you who grabbed number 1!!!




nutmeg said:


> Waiting for these beauties
> 
> http://watanabeblade.com/english/special/img/akarenge22x75x204_big.jpg
> 
> http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/img/akarenge26x68x185_big.jpg


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## nutmeg

If I were a richer man, I would order #9 Ao Renge suita.


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## nutmeg

ynot1985 said:


> it was you who grabbed number 1!!!


It's a beautiful one, one of the most beautiful I've seen. The #2 is very interessant too!
I had the chance to grab this big one for two years:


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## aboynamedsuita

Krakorak said:


> So finally this one! But its great as well, a REAL brick!
> 
> And I was eying that aka renge Nr. 7 for a long time as well, somebody will be really happy, Shinichi described it simply as "perfect"!



Thanks, and no hard feelings about #5 either that was actually the second time I missed an Ao renge Suita. There used to be a smaller stone about 78x25x155 (used to be #13 I think) that I was originally looking at, but that got nabbed by someone, but now having known of the sale I'm kinda glad it happened


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## aboynamedsuita

nutmeg said:


> Waiting for these beauties
> 
> http://watanabeblade.com/english/special/img/akarenge22x75x204_big.jpg
> 
> http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/img/akarenge26x68x185_big.jpg





nutmeg said:


> If I were a richer man, I would order #9 Ao Renge suita.



Nice grab there! I sent the PayPal yesterday for #9 Ao renge Suita. That stone is huge and the lines kind of give it character, I also like how there is kawa on the end and bottom.





If I was able to get the #5 I originally was looking at I'd have had enough I could splurge for #7 aka renge Suita too, but I figure the ohira renge Suita I already have from JNS is similar and has the reddish/purple renge.


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## nutmeg

tjangula said:


> Nice grab there! I sent the PayPal yesterday for #9 Ao renge Suita. That stone is huge and the lines kind of give it character, I also like how there is kawa on the end and bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I was able to get the #5 I originally was looking at I'd have had enough I could splurge for #7 aka renge Suita too, but I figure the ohira renge Suita I already have from JNS is similar and has the reddish/purple renge.



Very good grab. I can bet this stone will be a heirloom.


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## nutmeg

Some naguras I got from Watanabe. They are not listed yet.



kostenlose bilder

To test them I used the Ao Renge.

Maruoyama Daijo:
I had to slide it 4 or 5 times on the Ao to have slurry. Very fast!

Okudo Akarenge Suita:
Clearly harder, I needed 20-25 times to get a fine slurry.

Ozuku Asagi Awasedo:
Very hard, minimum 40 Times to get a little slorry.


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## aboynamedsuita

I also got some gifts with my recent maruo Yama Suita 





I asked about what they were and was advised as follows:


> I guess the long thin one is Okudo Suita, not ohira Suita.
> Two grey stones are possible from Ozuku.
> The triangle shape one is maybe from Daijo from Maruo.
> Yes, you can use them as Nagura or finger stone.



I also got a bonus mini Aizu with my aoto


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## bennyprofane

I also have this mini Aizu, I use it as a Tomonagura for my Aizu.

Congrats on the AO Renge #9, Tjangula. And thanks for relieving me of the pressure to make that buy, it was a real struggle.

It's interesting that your Kouzaki is so much lighter than Matus and mine.


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## aboynamedsuita

No worries about #9 J, I was also considering #6 but thought the lines and extra height made it look more unique. 

My aoto was actually called "aoto Kouzaki okabana", not sure if the significance of the name? I'm still gonna do several more layers of lacquer but am keen to see how it works


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## Krakorak

nutmeg said:


> One of you guys grabbed this one?
> 
> http://watanabeblade.com/english/special/img/akarenge25x74x203_big.jpg



This one was sold already about 3 weeks ago and for the original (really great!) price, before this "stone-buy mania" caused by nutmeg's thread started...which increases the probability that it was purchased by someone outside the KKF...But if I hand't already an Ohira suita from Maxim, I would probably have grabbed it, its really beautiful!


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## Krakorak

nutmeg said:


> Waiting for these beauties
> 
> http://watanabeblade.com/english/special/img/akarenge22x75x204_big.jpg
> 
> http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/img/akarenge26x68x185_big.jpg



Haha, I noticed that they have been marked as "sold" at the same moment, so I thought someone has bought them both! Congratulations particularly to the Nr. 1, when I first opened Shinichi's web and this particular site with Ohira suitas, I was simply fascinated by the beauty of this stone...Just the mention "never hit any lines during sharpening" discouraged me a bit...although there are definitely not many...


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## Krakorak

tjangula said:


> Thanks, and no hard feelings about #5 either that was actually the second time I missed an Ao renge Suita. There used to be a smaller stone about 78x25x155 (used to be #13 I think) that I was originally looking at, but that got nabbed by someone, but now having known of the sale I'm kinda glad it happened



I was also looking for that small one, 155 x 78, it was Nr. 4 when listed, perfect quality and really beautiful colour, like the current Nr. 2, but the day I intended to ask Shinichi if he could keep it for me, he let me know that its already on the way to Schmitten, Germany...But considering that I have finally bought a much bigger one for the same price as the small was originally listed for, I have no reason to be dissapointed..And your Nr. 9 is definitely phenomenal!


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## nutmeg

a lucky one getting the very beautiful Ohira aka renge #7 ?!


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## nutmeg

If the #12 would be in sale I would rob the bank for it..


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## ynot1985

nutmeg said:


> a lucky one getting the very beautiful Ohira aka renge #7 ?!



I did consider that one as it's almost 1/2 price but I decided to go number 9 instead and number 2 Ao Renge suita


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## Krakorak

nutmeg said:


> a lucky one getting the very beautiful Ohira aka renge #7 ?!



Please, don't mention this one anymore, I already almost forgot I already have one Ohira suita:-D...its really tempting!


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## Krakorak

nutmeg said:


> If the #12 would be in sale I would rob the bank for it..



Just ask Shinichi if he would be willing to give you a discount on it...if not all then at least almost all of the stones that were/are on sale were on sale because somebody was interested in them...and Shinichi put a good price for him! In some cases the people grabbed only one or two stones from let's say four...and the rest remained available, but still for a great price! It was also my case...


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## ynot1985

the #12 (im assuming the shiro suita one) is listed at 90k,

so probably 60k after discount

trust me, these are almost impossible to get even in Japan and you would probably be paying more for it too



nutmeg said:


> If the #12 would be in sale I would rob the bank for it..


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## aboynamedsuita

In addition to the giant ohira Ao renge Suita, I got a couple more

Ohira aka renge Suita





Aizu-do


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## nutmeg

very nice grab! &#128077;


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## aboynamedsuita

nutmeg said:


> very nice grab! [emoji106]


Thanks! I got an aoto and maruo-Yama shiro Suita before the sale too, so have just about all my bases covered now with the addition of the Aizu, Ohira aka renge Suita and Ohira Ao renge Suita. I figure for coarse stones (<1k) I can just use the choseras





nutmeg said:


> Even if I've never fount his stones particularely expensive it's really time to make a nice collection with his Christmas Sales! And as I am not sure to find the Ao anywhere else I could buy a second one....
> The Ao Renge is very useful and fast with nagura. I didn't use it a long time but since I've made the pictures for the forum it became my everyday finishing stone, even for workhorses in the restaurant. Btw the Benriner mandoline became now an insane tool! It slices food as if was made out of air [emoji3] I'll make pictures this next days.


Would love to see the pics!


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## nutmeg

tjangula said:


> Would love to see the pics!



yes.. maybe I should make one in a few minutes..


bilder upload


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## Matus

Nutmeg you are killing me


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## nutmeg

Ok Matus, then fasten your seatbelt, we're moving quick here
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...er-alternative-to-Benriner?highlight=benriner


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## nutmeg

Santa Claus came early this year 


gratis bilder hochladen


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## nutmeg

bilder kostenlos hochladen



bild hochladen



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## nutmeg

gratis bilder hochladen



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## ynot1985

i can look at that ohira suita number 1 all day long!!!


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## Matus

Those stones are jaw dropping beautiful.


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## bennyprofane

nutmeg said:


> a lucky one getting the very beautiful Ohira aka renge #7 ?!



That would be me.  Along with AO Renge #7 It doesnt look as spectacular but Watanabe said its great.

What is that first stone of yours. The Ohira looks beautiful!


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## nutmeg

ynot1985 said:


> i can look at that ohira suita number 1 all day long!!!



yes it's the most beautiful Jnat I've ever seen!

But this Ohira Suita is my big favourite:



more than beautiful, it's impressive in real. 
I believe it is the stone with the highest value I own.


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## bennyprofane

Which stone is that? I don't see it on his website?


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## ynot1985

the number 1 ohira suita was 80,000 yen before discount.. so im assuming this one is 80000 + before discount?



nutmeg said:


> yes it's the most beautiful Jnat I've ever seen!
> 
> But this Ohira Suita is my big favourite:
> 
> 
> 
> more than beautiful, it's impressive in real.
> I believe it is the stone with the highest value I own.


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## nutmeg

They were both Ohira Suita Aka Renge. #1 and #2
Unfortunately both full price without any discount.. :-(


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## nutmeg

My wallet the next 27 months: http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/wm/live/624_351/images/live/p0/2r/z7/p02rz7lq.jpg


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## ynot1985

so how much was the number #2. if number 1 was 80000, this must be 90000+?

I have been eyeing the number 1 for a long long time.




nutmeg said:


> They were both Ohira Suita Aka Renge. #1 and #2
> Unfortunately both full price without any discount.. :-(


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## nutmeg

ynot1985 said:


> so how much was the number #2. if number 1 was 80000, this must be 90000+?
> 
> I have been eyeing the number 1 for a long long time.



A lot and it hurts a bit :-D
But in this case I think, most important is not the price paid but the value of the object. 
How should I compare an extreme beautiful stone with unique pattern (and top quality!) to a bigger one in the same quality but that looks like 10 000 other ones?


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## nutmeg

Edit


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## aboynamedsuita

nutmeg said:


> Santa Claus came early this year
> 
> 
> gratis bilder hochladen



I see Ohira Suita 1&2, but what's in the third box? I'll also have an early Xmas present to post later today


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## aboynamedsuita

tjangula said:


> I'll also have an early Xmas present to post later today



My giant Ao renge Suita from Ohira Yama approximately 208x76x51






I should have more goodies on Friday or Monday.


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## bennyprofane

That is such a nice stone! I really had to restrain myself from getting it!


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## Krakorak

ynot1985 said:


> so how much was the number #2. if number 1 was 80000, this must be 90000+?
> 
> I have been eyeing the number 1 for a long long time.



As far as my numeric brain remembers correctly, it was cheaper than Nr. 1 and was "only" 50 000 - I was looking at Shinichi's stones several times a day for several weeks:-D...Interestingly, the Nr. 2 was probably the only Ohira which I didn't consider to buy at all...although when I see the pictures, I like the look a lot! So I am curious to hear, what exactly makes to stone so specific and unique for you, nutmeg? If it is possible to describe it by words...


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## Krakorak

nutmeg said:


> They were both Ohira Suita Aka Renge. #1 and #2
> Unfortunately both full price without any discount.. :-(



I just want to say that, in my opinion, if there is somebody involved in this thread who would have deserved a big discount, its first and foremost you - I am sure that without this thread and the nice illustrative side by side comparison of the particular stones you made, Shinichi certainly wouldn't have sold so many stones during the last weeks...


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## Matus

+1 what Krakorak said  I think nutmeg should be eligible for a free gyuto from Shinichi :knife:


----------



## Krassi

HihOo!

Here is a nice shot of my Ao still with stamps on it a year ago.
Would you believe that it could be 23000-26000yen? ) (paid 270euros all together of course without customs  )
its around 205x80x27mm or something..and has zero lines and is just perfect.







since i was one of the first around here who got one of those more than a year ago when Shinichi introduced them on his website, i have been asked a lot lately about ao-renge ohiras..
..soo gimme the discount!!! muahah.. well seriously what Shinichi told me about this stones is no blabla.


well i can just confirm that its a awesome finisher that is definitely harder and finer than the best ohira shiro suita aka renge and like a workhorse.

Shinichi described it as "as good as best nakayama" and it combines the speed and silky feedback of the suitas but is sick fine and makes instant black slurry like you expect.
You can also get a fullsize Nakayama but i will not get me a brick size nakayama from buyee japan auctions.. because i got this ao renge suita 

i also got a small but excellent nakayama but i prefer that ao renge in progression with my ohira uchigumori, aka renge suita and than the ao renge.
its the ohira trio! ).

well its hard to say if a good nakayama is better or anything else, but since i have this big one i am happy 

seeya daniel


----------



## nutmeg

Krakorak said:


> I just want to say that, in my opinion, if there is somebody involved in this thread who would have deserved a big discount, its first and foremost you - I am sure that without this thread and the nice illustrative side by side comparison of the particular stones you made, Shinichi certainly wouldn't have sold so many stones during the last weeks...



haha! yes not that wrong, it was a bit of money spent these last two months! 
Some could think it was "advertising" but I really "believe" in Watanabe, what he produces, sells and the way he does it. 
I also believe this stone fever has made us buying with passion and this is good.


----------



## nutmeg

Matus said:


> +1 what Krakorak said  I think nutmeg should be eligible for a free gyuto from Shinichi :knife:



Thanks guys 
A 180 Deba would be good in case of..


----------



## nutmeg

Krassi said:


> HihOo!
> 
> Here is a nice shot of my Ao still with stamps on it a year ago.
> Would you believe that it could be 23000-26000yen? ) (paid 270euros all together of course without customs  )
> its around 205x80x27mm or something..and has zero lines and is just perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since i was one of the first around here who got one of those more than a year ago when Shinichi introduced them on his website, i have been asked a lot lately about ao-renge ohiras..
> ..soo gimme the discount!!! muahah.. well seriously what Shinichi told me about this stones is no blabla.
> 
> 
> well i can just confirm that its a awesome finisher that is definitely harder and finer than the best ohira shiro suita aka renge and like a workhorse.
> 
> Shinichi described it as "as good as best nakayama" and it combines the speed and silky feedback of the suitas but is sick fine and makes instant black slurry like you expect.
> You can also get a fullsize Nakayama but i will not get me a brick size nakayama from buyee japan auctions.. because i got this ao renge suita
> 
> i also got a small but excellent nakayama but i prefer that ao renge in progression with my ohira uchigumori, aka renge suita and than the ao renge.
> its the ohira trio! ).
> 
> well its hard to say if a good nakayama is better or anything else, but since i have this big one i am happy
> 
> seeya daniel



Bennyprofane was at home today! 
It was cool to meet up a bit. He brought stones, knives, mini-lemon (what's their name again?), I tried to cook tee..
Then we picked up the Ao Renge and managed to transform a cute Fujiwara Teruyasu petty to a razor in less than 10 minutes.


----------



## ynot1985

totally agree.. some of my favourite stones are from Shin. Still trying to find a similar stone to the Nakayama he sold me recently. Opened my eyes to what a good stone really is.



nutmeg said:


> haha! yes not that wrong, it was a bit of money spent these last two months!
> Some could think it was "advertising" but I really "believe" in Watanabe, what he produces, sells and the way he does it.
> I also believe this stone fever has made us buying with passion and this is good.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

nutmeg said:


> haha! yes not that wrong, it was a bit of money spent these last two months!
> Some could think it was "advertising" but I really "believe" in Watanabe, what he produces, sells and the way he does it.
> I also believe this stone fever has made us buying with passion and this is good.





ynot1985 said:


> totally agree.. some of my favourite stones are from Shin. Still trying to find a similar stone to the Nakayama he sold me recently. Opened my eyes to what a good stone really is.



Well said, Watanabe was the first Japanese maker I custom ordered a knife from even before my time at KKF and I've gone back for several more. I'm working on a rehandle solution with an Australian KKF vendor given that my original plans with respect to handles haven't worked out. My first jnat from him was an aoto then the maruoyama Suita; now with the sale I have the Ao renge, aka renge and Aizu and on that note, these arrived today:






The aka renge is very clean from the sides, only su layer I see is a couple mm from the bottom so should never be a problem


----------



## nutmeg

beautiful aka


----------



## fatboylim

Nutmeg, is that Mert Tansu working on your handle?


----------



## nutmeg

fatboylim said:


> Nutmeg, is that Mert Tansu working on your handle?



who? wich handle?


----------



## Krakorak

Here are the links to the photos of my two stones from Shinichi; artificial light, so the colours are not 100% authentic, but close to it...I hope to try them out tonight...

http://rhamphorhynchus.rajce.idnes.cz/Maruoyama_shiro_suita_from_Shinichi_Watanabe/
http://rhamphorhynchus.rajce.idnes.cz/Ao_renge_suita_from_Shinichi_Watanabe/


----------



## Krakorak

nutmeg said:


> haha! yes not that wrong, it was a bit of money spent these last two months!
> Some could think it was "advertising" but I really "believe" in Watanabe, what he produces, sells and the way he does it.
> I also believe this stone fever has made us buying with passion and this is good.



Yeah, I could sign particularly the "the way he does it" part, I was curious to try some suita from Maruoyama first and considered also the japan-messer-shop.de vendor, particularly because their stones seemed to be nice and not especially expensive, particularly considering all the expected extra taxes when eventually buying from Shinichi (at that time I didn't know yet how it works with him and the customs;-)), but even after making a call with the German shop and spelling them my email adress, I didn't get any answer to my questions, although they promised to do so...On the other hand, I ever got an answer from Shinichi the same day...so it wasn't a difficult decision anymore, from whom I will buy finally...


----------



## aboynamedsuita

fatboylim said:


> Nutmeg, is that Mert Tansu working on your handle?





nutmeg said:


> who? wich handle?



I'm the one with the handles I've been in discussion with James about some of his ebony with horn and nickel-silver semi customs.
My original plan was to have full customs made but at last word from the vendor they were going to be ready in early August, but haven't heard anything despite trying to make contact several times.





Krakorak said:


> Here are the links to the photos of my two stones from Shinichi; artificial light, so the colours are not 100% authentic, but close to it...I hope to try them out tonight...
> 
> http://rhamphorhynchus.rajce.idnes.cz/Maruoyama_shiro_suita_from_Shinichi_Watanabe/
> http://rhamphorhynchus.rajce.idnes.cz/Ao_renge_suita_from_Shinichi_Watanabe/



Nice looking stones J, looking forward to hearing your thoughts.


----------



## Krassi

hiho!

@NuTmEg:
Ahh! yeah i forgot that you are from munich too!
Well i guess i am one of those evil factors that caused him this serious jnat illness 

Ahh you tried it on his 150mm with the nice western handle!
cool since i have lots of time next week (after sick super karoshi work weeks) ill tesst all my stuff and compare it. i should send me the green aizu soon from buyee.

Well as i said .. this stone is good 
And with my Ohira trio its in good company !

"mini-lemon".. hmm do you mean "Limetten"?

@tjangula:

Woow they look very nice.. i like those super sick wave/damast patterns on his latest aka renge ohiras.
I am watching his site on a daily base since more than a year now and he reeeaaaaly has/had sick stuff and really knows about it.. i thrust him more than any other Stoneseller and he is also a super nice friendly guy 
in one mail he told me he was on a Kyoto business trip and bought stones for a million yen  

I also like that he really knows the miners and meets for example the ohira mine owner.. then tests 50 stones for 3 hours and keeps the best.
this is far more reliable for me than reading fancy copy/paste text on other seller sites from europe )
Well his descriptions are.. well sometimes "very funky and fantasy like" ) but just mail him and its running! 

That Aizu looks also nice i am totally super mega happy with my cheap auction Aizu and this stone is my only middle grit stone that i need any more.
well at the moment theres a 210x120 aizu monster on auction in japan but i dondt need too 

its super hard not to look at the buyee stuff daily.. reeeeeeeally hard.. actually .. impossible )..i like that gambling! (i am actually the last person in the wolrd that would gamble.. but stones.. well thats a different meat)

but still if shinichi recommends you a stone then its interstellar and he also puts his on buyee by the way
I really like shinichi! and his Ao Renge of course too!


Seeya , daniel!


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Thanks D, I'm lacquering them up tomorrow gonna be busy and there's lots of surface area, especially on that Ao renge given that it's about 50mm tall.


----------



## Matus

OK, here are a few stones that just arrived from Shinichi. The knife in photos is just for the scale - Gesshin Ittetsu 180 single bevel petty. I apologise for the weird light (different light sources with different color) in our kitchen. I tried my best to get the color of the stones as close to reality as possible.

Uchigumori from Ohira - medium size, intended for kasumi and possibly also as finisher for the edge:










Uchigumori Aka Renge from Ohira - fantastic looking stone that I bought to make some fingerstones










Little Ikarashi-do, Kasabori, Shitada, with light green color. Should be very fast - I am very curios about it.










Nakayama hard and very fine. Intended as finisher for kamisori.


----------



## Badgertooth

That looks like a great haul. I was surprised by uchigumori as a sharpening stone, it left a lovely edge. I also have aka renge that looks very similar to that and it is a pleasure to sharpen on. Interested to hear your thoughts on the Ikarashi, I've come to love mine now that I understand it a bit better.


----------



## Matus

Some of the stones had reasonable prices already and the discounts Shinichi had made them nearly for free. I also got the AI#1000, but did not try it yet (neither)

I was very tempted by those highly praised shiro suitas from maruo-yama, but according to Shinichi the Uchigumori should be a great finisher too. I should find out soon.


----------



## Badgertooth

The Ikarashi will set a lovely foundation for any finishing work on the edge and the cladding.

I've heard great things about AI1000. Let us know as and when the stones reveal their secrets to you


----------



## Matus

I sure will. You can not imagine how curios I am to compare the AI#1000 with the Gesshin 2000 :viking:

Shinichi had a fantastic, large Ikarashi-do, but it was way out of my price range (I think like 80,000). Now if I like the small one, than the question is - how does it compare to the Ikarashi that Maxim sells ...


----------



## foody518

Nice pickup, Matus


----------



## K1tten

Does anyone have any experience with Tajima from Shin? I see it is listed than finer than Aoto but I ran a search on here and one poster lists this as a coarser stone more like 800-1000. Not much other information about the stone can be found, at least not by me. Would this be a good stone before, after or in place of an aoto? It really is a pretty stone!

As this seems to be the official Wantanabe stone thread I thought I would ask.


----------



## panda

very interested on your thoughts of AI1000 matus


----------



## Krassi

Hiho!

well i could directly test my JNS1000 and the AI1000 and for me the Ai is faster, but feels rougher from the feedback. I guess the ai1000 is the fastest 1000 grit stones i have ever tried but for me it was to small (65mm wide is to small for me after all those giga bricks i have now ) ).

So the ai is totally faster but i like my bigger smoother jns1000.
i totally cant say how the scratch patterns would compare.

i will also soon have a nice j-auction green Ikarashi and hope it will be my natural stone alternativ so i hope i can send all my synthetics into


----------



## bennyprofane

Matus, are you still waiting for that Aoto?


----------



## Matus

benny, it was way past my bedtime when I posted that and forgot to include the Aoto. So yes - it is already here. It feels very fine & smooth to touch. According to Shinichi it would be around 4k and it does feel like that too.

The short white lines appear to be just shallow scratches on the surface.


----------



## cheflivengood

Matus said:


> benny, it was way past my bedtime when I posted that and forgot to include the Aoto. So yes - it is already here. It feels very fine & smooth to touch. According to Shinichi it would be around 4k and it does feel like that too.
> 
> The short white lines appear to be just shallow scratches on the surface.



that was the one from like pre 1930 right? Dope


----------



## Matus

cheflivengood said:


> that was the one from like pre 1930 right? Dope



Jep, and with 50% discount I just could not let it hanging


----------



## cheflivengood

Nope you couldn't, thats history mate.


----------



## mcritchlow

Matus said:


> I sure will. You can not imagine how curios I am to compare the AI#1000 with the Gesshin 2000 :viking:



Very curious to hear your comparison of the AI #1000 and the Gesshin 2k, Matus. I'm thinking of getting a new stone in that range (also considering the JNS 1k), and there's so little info on the AI stones. The naturals you picked up look really fun too


----------



## Matus

I guess once I test that AI #1000 I will have to send it to Krakorak so that he can compare it to JNS 1000 (though he has the previous version, if I recall correctly. Still - he loves that stone).


----------



## Krassi

As mentionend i have the new JNS1000 and Zetieum has the Ai1000 and he is just 1km (ehh lets say a mile) away from me.
I iam actually curious to compare them again.

For me i like my JNS1000 more because its wider and smoother. But on our next "cologne knife night" we will sharpen like demons on tons of stones again like last time 

Also tried a comparison to my Thai orange Binsu today and well the JNS is much faster of course but leaves a much scratchier finish.


----------



## Krakorak

Matus said:


> I guess once I test that AI #1000 I will have to send it to Krakorak so that he can compare it to JNS 1000 (though he has the previous version, if I recall correctly. Still - he loves that stone).



No, I have the new one..And I believe, it was nutmeg who posted somewhere (I unfortunately couldn't find the particular thread) his impressions about Watanabe synthetics, including a comparison (not his, a copied message from Shinichi who obviously knows that stone) of AI 1000 and JNS 1000; I believe that Shinichi wrote that AI 1000 is distinctly faster...Sorry, if I am wrong, I can't remember it exactly anymore, as I mentioned...


----------



## Matus

Such post was indeed made.


----------



## mcritchlow

Matus said:


> I guess once I test that AI #1000 I will have to send it to Krakorak so that he can compare it to JNS 1000 (though he has the previous version, if I recall correctly. Still - he loves that stone).



That would be great 



Krassi said:


> As mentionend i have the new JNS1000 and Zetieum has the Ai1000 and he is just 1km (ehh lets say a mile) away from me.
> I iam actually curious to compare them again.
> 
> For me i like my JNS1000 more because its wider and smoother. But on our next "cologne knife night" we will sharpen like demons on tons of stones again like last time
> 
> Also tried a comparison to my Thai orange Binsu today and well the JNS is much faster of course but leaves a much scratchier finish.



Thanks Krassi and Krakorak! I guess I'd missed nutmeg's review. I'll look for that.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Krakorak said:


> No, I have the new one..And I believe, it was nutmeg who posted somewhere (I unfortunately couldn't find the particular thread) his impressions about Watanabe synthetics, including a comparison (not his, a copied message from Shinichi who obviously knows that stone) of AI 1000 and JNS 1000; I believe that Shinichi wrote that AI 1000 is distinctly faster...Sorry, if I am wrong, I can't remember it exactly anymore, as I mentioned...





Matus said:


> Such post was indeed made.



Found it! 



nutmeg said:


> I remeber him writing about the AI#1000:
> 
> "ai#1000 and Chosera 1000 are similar making process. But ai#1000 is stronger shaping power, keep flat surface more and sharpened surface is finer.
> JNS 1000 is same power as Chosera or weaker shaping power than Chosera 1000.
> JNS say it doesn't need soak, but I think the stone needs 5 min in water. You can think AI #1000 has Chosera #400 of shaping power. But the sharpened surface is #1000."





Matus said:


> nutmeg, was that information you have just shared been posted online, or in private communication between you and Schinichi. I am asking as it makes difference in how it sounds and what people may think about him. Please clarify if possible.





nutmeg said:


> Yes this was a private conversation with Shinichi.
> I hope this can help to compare.


----------



## mcritchlow

tjangula said:


> Found it!



Thanks for digging that up  I'm not sure Schinichi would have wanted that posted publicly, but interesting nonetheless..

I wish, based purely on specs alone, that the AI stones were thicker. 16mm seems a bit thin compared to the more standard 25mm. Though based on the description I assume they wear quite slowly.


----------



## Krassi

Well actually it confirms what we also experience..
And there is nothing bad about it.. he just says his ai1000 is better  and he is right.. in terms of speed 100%

Its just that i like 10mm more wide and less scratchy. Just my personal preference but yes the Ai1000 is the fastest 1000 i have ever tried.
Damned i guess i gotta visit Zetieum soon to try it out again.


----------



## mcritchlow

Krassi said:


> Well actually it confirms what we also experience..
> And there is nothing bad about it.. he just says his ai1000 is better  and he is right.. in terms of speed 100%
> 
> Its just that i like 10mm more wide and less scratchy. Just my personal preference but yes the Ai1000 is the fastest 1000 i have ever tried.
> Damned i guess i gotta visit Zetieum soon to try it out again.



Thanks Krassi, that definitely helps give me a sense of the differences as well. It's nice hearing confirmation, if nothing else, from someone who is not the seller of the product


----------



## Krassi

Yep! And it may sometimes even look like i work for shinichi because i recommend him so hardcore!
He gave me so many good advices in the past and i learned a lot from the tons of mail we send.

Its really cool that finally people recognize the Watanabe Synthetics.. he has got them for at least more than a year if iam correct.
Also his super crazy Diamnondplate is supposed to be deathstar like.

Well at the moment i am nearly done with getting every good typical medium and coarse jnat's (just an omura to go and ill get it from a j-auction seller that Shinichi also recommends .. this guy has some sick bricks for nothing) 
i just hope my stone sickness will soon be cured 

Seeya


----------



## cheflivengood

Krassi said:


> Yep! And it may sometimes even look like i work for shinichi because i recommend him so hardcore!
> He gave me so many good advices in the past and i learned a lot from the tons of mail we send.
> 
> Its really cool that finally people recognize the Watanabe Synthetics.. he has got them for at least more than a year if iam correct.
> Also his super crazy Diamnondplate is supposed to be deathstar like.
> 
> Well at the moment i am nearly done with getting every good typical medium and coarse jnat's (just an omura to go and ill get it from a j-auction seller that Shinichi also recommends .. this guy has some sick bricks for nothing)
> i just hope my stone sickness will soon be cured
> 
> Seeya



Does anyone have the diamond plate?


----------



## Matus

cheflivengood said:


> Does anyone have the diamond plate?



It looks cool, but bit too pricey for something that is meant to 'just' flatten stones


----------



## cheflivengood

Matus said:


> It looks cool, but bit too pricey for something that is meant to 'just' flatten stones



I thought he said it could be used for thinning? maybe not...


----------



## bennyprofane

Today, I have received my stones from Watanabe, an Ohira with lots of Renge Suita and an AO Renge Suita.

*Ohira Renge Suita #7*

A beautiful stone with lots of purple Renge.

















Despite the iron spots, the stone is very fast. After a minute of sharpening the bevel:

















*AO Renge Suita #7*

As expected, finer and a bit slower than the other one but still lots of shaping power and lots of black Renge. Both are amazing stones.

















After minute of sharpening the bevel.







With Watanabe you can always be sure to get great stones as he buys them directly from the miners / wholesalers and tests every stone before he gets it.


----------



## Krassi

WOW!

Sick ones! and very nice closeups!
The aka renge has soooooo much renge!! awesome.
The ao renge is not so melon green like my one .. interesting!!.. even the renge looks different. 
But what counts is the Suita shaping power of doom ! 

very nice catches!!! would be interesting to knwo how they perform ones you get your "super-bogdan system" for them )

best regards, daniel!


----------



## mcritchlow

Those stones are just beautiful bennyprofane, wow.. Thanks for sharing the pics.


----------



## nutmeg

beautiful aka!


----------



## aboynamedsuita

bennyprofane said:


> Today, I have received my stones from Watanabe, an Ohira with lots of Renge Suita and an AO Renge Suita.
> 
> *Ohira Renge Suita #7*
> *AO Renge Suita #7*



Nice suitas J, gives new meaning to the term lucky #7 

I kinda regret passing on that aka renge for the suminagashi one, but am glad it's gotten a good home


----------



## Krassi

HiHo

Meeehh thanks Julius for telling me how awesome your Omura is.. well got one too from the same seller

http://resource.buyee.jp/yahoo/auction/04/8b/42/428b04
i love those magic numbers "&#65298;&#65298;&#65296;×&#65297;&#65296;&#65296;×&#65302;&#65299;mm"Size ..its big like my Mount Thai Binsu 

well this should (i super hope!!!) conclude my natural stone collection with a super course gentle chainsaw like cutting stone 
there are still 2 other one in the buyee warehouse that need some shipping soon.
http://resource.buyee.jp/yahoo/auction/24/70/40/407024 Aiiwatani Karasu
http://resource.buyee.jp/yahoo/auction/2f/b3/41/41b32f Green Ikarashi
Both around 210x80mm

i sould never look on this site again .. well .. forget it )) impossible  its too much fun to see whats new in J-nat Country 

Seeya, and if all the stuff is here ill make a big stonebattle royal .. well naturals only.. 
Daniel


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I was debating getting an omura from Shinichi at the same time as my last shipment, but told myself I'm sticking to jnats for finishers only and will use synths for anything pre-Aoto or pre-Aizu hopefully I can keep my word because shipping would be pricey


----------



## Krassi

Yeah.. i tried that on me but changed my mind 
Ill get the cheapest shipping and it will be there someday 

it s actually curiousity of course to. Shinichi told me same with synthetics in the coarse range
with JNS400+JNS1000 its super synthetics but of course you gotta try and compare them to be convinced yourself and well .. ehh ... ehh... .. ehh i just wanted it  and its sooooo big 
and i tried my course thai binsu and its not so super coarse as that one. so real hardcore beveling would make me insane with that t-nat

30 days time to think how to ship it 

seeya


----------



## Matus

Yeah, trying the coarser natural stones is tempting - that is why I got a little Ikarashi-do from Shinichi  ... I have not used it yet though ...


----------



## Badgertooth

Matus said:


> Yeah, trying the coarser natural stones is tempting - that is why I got a little Ikarashi-do from Shinichi  ... I have not used it yet though ...



Would love to hear your thoughts, I also have the Kasabori flavour of Ikarashi and I love it. It is on loan to a professional sharpener and he is very impressed


----------



## nutmeg

this is a cute one!

#4 Shiro suita, Aka Renge
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone1.htm


----------



## Matus

nutmeg said:


> this is a cute one!
> 
> #4 Shiro suita, Aka Renge
> http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone1.htm



Totally. Even if not too usable with that deep iron lines, it is so beautiful that one could just buy it for its beauty


----------



## Asteger

Badgertooth said:


> Would love to hear your thoughts, I also have the Kasabori flavour of Ikarashi and I love it. It is on loan to a professional sharpener and he is very impressed



Badge, Kasabori is either the town or local area, or both, (I forget precisely, would check if I had more time) where Ikarashi are from, so I don't think there is anything such as a 'Kasabori Ikarashi' as opposed to an 'Ikarashi' generally. I think it's the same as calling a Nakayama a 'Kyoto Nakayama' where the 'Kyoto' would be a bit redundant.

There are one or 2 pictures out there where cheaper stones - the Y2k or Y3k variety in Japan, in general hardware-shop-type plastic wrap - are labelled Ikarashi but are clearly different stones; obvious Amakusa I would think. Not sure why this would have happened. The fellow at tomonagura seems to think there's something to this, nonetheless, and credits Kyushu as the source of Ikarashi, despite the overwhelming evidence legit ones are from Niigata, ie. Kasabori, Niigata. Tried to debate this and he changed his description a bit, but I think you can be confident that a blue-ish stone that looks about right and is called 'Ikarashi' is just that and from Niigata. Aizu were not mined that far away and are blueish, but can always be told apart I think, and there also wouldn't be an incentive to mislabel them as Ikarashi, for eg.


----------



## Krassi

Also Ikarashi and Aizu are very similar and the mines are just 50km away.
I will get a green Ikarashi from a seller from Niigata so the chances are good that it is a good one.

Oh by the way Asteger.. is there any 1000 grit Jnat that is similar fast than a synthetic?
I read about Iyo, numata, blablab.. there is a lot of stuff in that range.. A lot of stuff from swordpolishing is mixed up very often.
It is just pure curiosity because the thai "Binsu" from miles are working pretty good (orange around 800 grit and the grey one at 1500)

best regards, daniel


----------



## Smashmasta

Asteger said:


> Badge, Kasabori is either the town or local area, or both, (I forget precisely, would check if I had more time) where Ikarashi are from, so I don't think there is anything such as a 'Kasabori Ikarashi' as opposed to an 'Ikarashi' generally. I think it's the same as calling a Nakayama a 'Kyoto Nakayama' where the 'Kyoto' would be a bit redundant.
> 
> There are one or 2 pictures out there where cheaper stones - the Y2k or Y3k variety in Japan, in general hardware-shop-type plastic wrap - are labelled Ikarashi but are clearly different stones; obvious Amakusa I would think. Not sure why this would have happened. The fellow at tomonagura seems to think there's something to this, nonetheless, and credits Kyushu as the source of Ikarashi, despite the overwhelming evidence legit ones are from Niigata, ie. Kasabori, Niigata. Tried to debate this and he changed his description a bit, but I think you can be confident that a blue-ish stone that looks about right and is called 'Ikarashi' is just that and from Niigata. Aizu were not mined that far away and are blueish, but can always be told apart I think, and there also wouldn't be an incentive to mislabel them as Ikarashi, for eg.



I'd be interested to see if we (and by 'we' I mean you/other more knowledgeable people than me, haha) could iron this out, despite if it may seem superfluous (we are all 'forum geeks' as Keith says on his site). Despite wanting to know from a 'student' standpoint, I've got an ikarashi from Maxim already, but then I also have a gorgeous ikarashi coming my way (not here yet) from Morihei and so I would like to know if there's a difference from an actual 'user' standpoint. They said it was the 1950s. It was their example they had up for display as a high quality ikarashi from the past (lucky me).

top
bottom
side

It looks somewhat like a whiter aizu.


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## bennyprofane

Could you post some pics if your other Ikarashi?


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## Smashmasta

bennyprofane said:


> Could you post some pics if your other Ikarashi?



Just a 'standard' JNS ikarashi (don't mean 'standard' to suggest it's subpar, it's quite effective)

View attachment 33764

View attachment 33765


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## Badgertooth

Asteger said:


> Badge, Kasabori is either the town or local area, or both, (I forget precisely, would check if I had more time) where Ikarashi are from, so I don't think there is anything such as a 'Kasabori Ikarashi' as opposed to an 'Ikarashi' generally. I think it's the same as calling a Nakayama a 'Kyoto Nakayama' where the 'Kyoto' would be a bit redundant.
> 
> There are one or 2 pictures out there where cheaper stones - the Y2k or Y3k variety in Japan, in general hardware-shop-type plastic wrap - are labelled Ikarashi but are clearly different stones; obvious Amakusa I would think. Not sure why this would have happened. The fellow at tomonagura seems to think there's something to this, nonetheless, and credits Kyushu as the source of Ikarashi, despite the overwhelming evidence legit ones are from Niigata, ie. Kasabori, Niigata. Tried to debate this and he changed his description a bit, but I think you can be confident that a blue-ish stone that looks about right and is called 'Ikarashi' is just that and from Niigata. Aizu were not mined that far away and are blueish, but can always be told apart I think, and there also wouldn't be an incentive to mislabel them as Ikarashi, for eg.



I don't think this is quite as tautologous as I'm being pulled up for. If there is conflicting authority on where they're from, "where" becomes a thing. My info is from a fairly long exchange with Watanabe. Shinichi makes the distinction to differentiate the those that he (as a Sanjo native) and those from other long, storied lines of Sanjo smiths considers the real deal. Good ones are considered heirloom pieces. There are others he knows of from called Ikarashi from Uozo Toyama and Tsugawa. These may well be the plastic-wrapped, shelf-fillers. As such, if the name has come into common use through convenience, ignorance, convention or astute marketing then stating locality serves to define an aspect of typicity. 

Champagne, technically, is only from a DOC region of the same name in France. But, through a 100yr old loophole; accession and non-accession to various treaties - sparkling wine from California may be called Champagne. I'll take the champagne champagne, please.


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## bennyprofane

Smashmasta said:


> Just a 'standard' JNS ikarashi (don't mean 'standard' to suggest it's subpar, it's quite effective)
> 
> View attachment 33764
> 
> View attachment 33765



I cant see the pics :shocked3:


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## Smashmasta

bennyprofane said:


> I cant see the pics :shocked3:



Gah, this forum and attaching images is making my head :shocked3:

Since this is a bit off topic from the original purpose of this thread, and since I just got my vintage 1950/60s Kasabori in, I started a new thread here

Let's not let this thread get :threadjacked:


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## Krakorak

Yesterday I have finally found time to test the big Maruo shiro suita from Shinichi a bit...and the stone seems to be great, very fast, with a really pleasant feedback and the result (on my Yoshikane hakata) also seems to be promising, although it was in fact my first "polishing attempt" - see photos at the end here: http://rhamphorhynchus.rajce.idnes.cz/Maruoyama_shiro_suita_from_Shinichi_Watanabe/


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## cheflivengood

That's either a very nicely ground knife, a pretty soft suita, or you are a very experienced polisher. Or all three :goodpost:


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## Krassi

WOW!

Super hyper clean Maruyama! and the polishing looks awesome!
His Marus are very good.

I had a reason to use my Ao Renge again today as the finishing move stone for my new xerxes custom knife (Pictures will follow tomorrow) and its awesome to use as usual.. )
Still my favorite "last stone" but ill have some other unkown stuff that ill try against it.. still the speed of the Ohira suitas is still there + feedback.. and a good one too.. its really a pleasure to use anytime.. ahhhh pure wellness + knightrider super pursuit mode speed 

Still checking his "special" corner on a daily base since 1,5 years now  and its changing very often and he has added sooooo many new categories over time.. right now iam more interested in his medium stuff.. 

Seeya,daniel


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## Krakorak

Thanks, but the third certainly not:-D...it was really my very first attempt (at least with a natural...and with synthetics I didn't have any ambition for something like that because I knew that the result probably wouldn't be anything special anyway)...its just the stone quality, I would say, Shinichi described it as an "ultimate shiro suita" and probably knew, why...And the hardness should be accorrding to him like in the most Maruo suitas, i.e. 6/10...And to be honest, the polish was not 100% consistent over the whole blade, but still for the most part at least, the part around the tip it was a bit tricky...


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## nutmeg

Krakorak said:


> Yesterday I have finally found time to test the big Maruo shiro suita from Shinichi a bit...and the stone seems to be great, very fast, with a really pleasant feedback and the result (on my Yoshikane hakata) also seems to be promising, although it was in fact my first "polishing attempt" - see photos at the end here: http://rhamphorhynchus.rajce.idnes.cz/Maruoyama_shiro_suita_from_Shinichi_Watanabe/



good cloudy finish! 
Once again, the Maruo Shiro suita as "alternative" to Uchigumori. ;-)
The yellow one above is the Ohira Ao?


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## Krassi

Looks like it.. Uhhh you even got your stamps still on it ) (single diamond plate use and they are gone)


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## Krakorak

nutmeg said:


> good cloudy finish!
> Once again, the Maruo Shiro suita as "alternative" to Uchigumori. ;-)
> The yellow one above is the Ohira Ao?



Yes, exactly, I have there even a separate gallery of that one...And I have also considered to buy an uchigumori from Shinichi, but am pretty happy with the Maruo...at least for now, one never knows;-)..


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## Krakorak

Krassi said:


> Looks like it.. Uhhh you even got your stamps still on it ) (single diamond plate use and they are gone)



They are already gone, of course, look here, that's the current condition: http://rhamphorhynchus.rajce.idnes.cz/Ohirayama_Ao_renge_suita_from_Shinichi_Watanabe/#PB220855.jpg


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## Krassi

Hii!!
Yep very nice one.. for me this is a keeper forever. Glad Shinichi nailed me with the AO  "Dude you need a Ohira ao renge suita" .. so true 
Also today i used all my stones from orange t-nat up to the Ao one and the ohira uchigumori is really funky  (if you have a JNS6000.. thats what its imitating) .. but Shinichi told me to only go for Ohira Uchigumori because a lot of other Uchigumori are suboptimal (well actually crap  )

"I 'm glad to hear about your Uchigumori.
100% true ohira uchigumori is important. Because I tried Mizukihara Uchigumori.
Mizukihara is oposite side of Mt.Ohira. The distance is about 5km?
But quality was too bad. I have heared Chinese broker is selling them."

Well i actually cant compare it to a super awesome Maruyama (cause i dondt have one) .. so i cant tell you whats better or not (the stone that i thought was a Maruyama seems to be a Nakayama suita)..

Still if i find a nice one ill go for it! (a maruyama)
Seeya, daniel !


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## bennyprofane

I actually have a very nice Mizukihara Uchigumori. It's very smooth and fast and even leaves a great cutting edge (so not just a polisher). Sharpchef tested it as well and said the stone is very good.


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## Krassi

wel than it was not a crap one  but still ohiras are considered the best.. and i would never give my aircraftcarrier size uchigumori ever away


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## bennyprofane

Yeah, I agree they might be the best but still it's a really good stone, really nothing bad to say about it...


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## Badgertooth

bennyprofane said:


> I actually have a very nice Mizukihara Uchigumori. It's very smooth and fast and even leaves a great cutting edge (so not just a polisher). Sharpchef tested it as well and said the stone is very good.



I have an incredible piece of mizukihara uchigumori. Clean, leaves a killer edge, polishes without scratching. Doesn't darken up the jigane quite as much as the Ohira I had but that was an exceptional stone.


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## krx927

Krakorak said:


> Yesterday I have finally found time to test the big Maruo shiro suita from Shinichi a bit...and the stone seems to be great, very fast, with a really pleasant feedback and the result (on my Yoshikane hakata) also seems to be promising, although it was in fact my first "polishing attempt" - see photos at the end here: http://rhamphorhynchus.rajce.idnes.cz/Maruoyama_shiro_suita_from_Shinichi_Watanabe/




That really looks nice! And the knife is really nicely ground!


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## TheCaptain

Ok   

Which one of you guys snapped up the akarenge #7?!? I tried to get it shipped to Chicago. Shinichi told me it was sold and on it's way to Georgia.

Sigh. So I'm going for a different one and picking up a few Aoto's as well.

It's a beautiful stone, hope we get to see more of it here.


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## foody518

TheCaptain said:


> Ok
> 
> Which one of you guys snapped up the akarenge #7?!? I tried to get it shipped to Chicago. Shinichi told me it was sold and on it's way to Georgia.
> 
> Sigh. So I'm going for a different one and picking up a few Aoto's as well.
> 
> It's a beautiful stone, hope we get to see more of it here.



I am wondering the same thing hahaha


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## dwalker

foody518 said:


> I am wondering the same thing hahaha



Guilty as charged. I ordered a 300 suji from him and requested he recommend a finisher for it.


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## foody518

dwalker said:


> Guilty as charged. I ordered a 300 suji from him and requested he recommend a finisher for it.



That one really looks like functional art, hope it's wonderful


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## dwalker

I really looking forward to it. I will let you guys know how it does soon after it arrives.


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## TheCaptain

dwalker said:


> Guilty as charged. I ordered a 300 suji from him and requested he recommend a finisher for it.



I'm glad it went here. Friends at the forum and all...

Can't wait to see a review!


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## Smashmasta

Badgertooth said:


> I have an incredible piece of mizukihara uchigumori. Clean, leaves a killer edge, polishes without scratching. Doesn't darken up the jigane quite as much as the Ohira I had but that was an exceptional stone.



Gah, where is everyone getting the mizu uchis at?! :hungry:


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## dwalker

Smashmasta said:


> Gah, where is everyone getting the mizu uchis at?! :hungry:



I'm looking for one as well although I may have to wait a bit for funds to replenish.


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## aboynamedsuita

I have a small Ohira Yama Uchigumori hayuza aka renge on the way with a lefty yanagi


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## Badgertooth

Renge for days! Looks awesome Tanner


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## ynot1985

I have 2 similar ones from Sin.. they may be small but great stones


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## hmansion

Apologies for resurrecting an old(ish) thread, but I found it helpful and thought I'd make my small contribution!

Curious about Jnats, I wrote Shinichi and asked for "a medium-high grit (equivalent of 3000-5000) that I could use as a general touch-up or finish stone in the kitchen. I would mainly want to use this stone to leave a good working edge on gyuto, petty & honesuki, white, blue and VG10 steels. If appropriate, also to lightly touch-up yanagiba each time before I make sushi (or maybe I should still be going to higher polish for yanagiba?). Can you recommend such a stone?" I was also curious about expanding my experience from sharpening to polishing/kasumi finishing. Shinichi gave me a list of stones for consideration and after a few back-and-forth emails, this is what we decided on - a Maruoyama Shirosuita:



Maruo-yama Shirosuita by Steve Page, on Flickr

I had him mount and lacquer the stone to save me the effort. I haven't had a chance to experiment with my first Jnat yet, but I just wanted to say thanks for the helpful contributions in this thread and to also say how helpful and responsive Shinichi is to work with. With purchasing Jnats online, trust is paramount. He's always been outstanding with my knife purchases and he was equally so with this stone purchase!


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## bennyprofane

Congratulations on a great stone! The Maruoyama Suitas are a real joy to use!


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## Badgertooth

That was my first too. And probably still my favourite. He is the best


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## Matus

You got yourself a fantastic stone, enjoy!


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## tommybig

My first too, not from Shinichi thou. Still a still a favorite.


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## hmansion

bennyprofane said:


> Congratulations on a great stone! The Maruoyama Suitas are a real joy to use!





Badgertooth said:


> That was my first too. And probably still my favourite. He is the best





Matus said:


> You got yourself a fantastic stone, enjoy!



Thanks! Still trying to figure out how to use it without messing up the awesome stamps! :scratchhead::wink:


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## valgard

hmansion said:


> Thanks! Still trying to figure out how to use it without messing up the awesome stamps! :scratchhead::wink:


Take pictures, the stamps on top will be gone after lapping.


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## hmansion

valgard said:


> Take pictures, the stamps on top will be gone after lapping.



Yes, I will photo-document it before first use!


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## tommybig

I like that Maruoyama stones have stamps on the sides.

My advice is, stop thinking about it, flatten it asap and remove them. Just get it over and start doing the fun stuff with it. :thumbsup:


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## K813zra

tommybig said:


> I like that Maruoyama stones have stamps on the sides.
> 
> My advice is, stop thinking about it, flatten it asap and remove them. Just get it over and start doing the fun stuff with it. :thumbsup:



I agree, photo, flatten and forget! You won't care one bit about those stamps when you are using the stone.


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## Badgertooth

Once you've lapped it and had a bit of time to bed in with it, let us know what your assessment of the grit range is. Could be really interesting


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## hmansion

Badgertooth said:


> Once you've lapped it and had a bit of time to bed in with it, let us know what your assessment of the grit range is. Could be really interesting



I believe an opportunity to sit with it may come later rather than sooner (seems everyone likes to visit us during summer break from school due to us living less than 5 miles from Walt Disney World :dazed but I will surely report back here after I do!


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## ynot1985

damn.. that's nice.. how much was it?


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## hmansion

ynot1985 said:


> damn.. that's nice.. how much was it?



A bit north of JPY61,000 for stone+wood base+lacquer. Not sure on shipping - he was making me a honesuki and I was fine with waiting for that to be completed if combining the two items would reduce my overall shipping expense. In hindsight, I hear he has discounts around Christmas and I probably could have saved some if I had waited, but then who knows if my stone would still be available...


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## dwalker

hmansion said:


> A bit north of JPY61,000 for stone+wood base+lacquer. Not sure on shipping - he was making me a honesuki and I was fine with waiting for that to be completed if combining the two items would reduce my overall shipping expense. In hindsight, I hear he has discounts around Christmas and I probably could have saved some if I had waited, but then who knows if my stone would still be available...



I got a great suita with his Christmas discount. You are right to pick it up. The best time to buy a special stone is when you see it. These are one of a kind items.


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## hmansion

dwalker said:


> I got a great suita with his Christmas discount. You are right to pick it up. The best time to buy a special stone is when you see it. These are one of a kind items.



I appreciate the post-purchase affirmation. Would not be an easy purchase to explain to my wife and I have every hope she shows the same indifference to it as she does most things kitchen related :whistling:


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## dwalker

hmansion said:


> I appreciate the post-purchase affirmation. Would not be an easy purchase to explain to my wife and I have every hope she shows the same indifference to it as she does most things kitchen related :whistling:



I can relate......


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## aboynamedsuita

hmansion said:


> Apologies for resurrecting an old(ish) thread, but I found it helpful and thought I'd make my small contribution!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maruo-yama Shirosuita by Steve Page, on Flickr



No apology necessary, that's a nice stone and great picture!


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## hmansion

aboynamedsuita said:


> No apology necessary, that's a nice stone and great picture!



Thanks!


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## nutmeg

Stones collection @ Watanabe:


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## valgard

OMG


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## Marek07

:drool:
Thought I'd left my stone lust behind. Lordy!


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## tgfencer

Whoa. Would love to see a video tour or a high-res photo of the whole lot that we could zoom in on.


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## StonedEdge

tgfencer said:


> Whoa. Would love to see a video tour or a high-res photo of the whole lot that we could zoom in on.


My thought as well! Drooling all over the place


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## nutmeg

the BIG green one in the foreground.. ;-)


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## Drosophil

nutmeg said:


> the BIG green one in the foreground.. ;-)



I thought that was a box. Dayum!


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## PalmRoyale

I still don't understand the scale he has for hardness and how he determines how hard a stone is. Does he have special equipment to test how hard it is?


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## StonedEdge

PalmRoyale said:


> I still don't understand the scale he has for hardness and how he determines how hard a stone is. Does he have special equipment to test how hard it is?


I've been wondering this myself. Seems like there's a general disconnect between people's definitions of hardness and density, perceived hardness and tactile feedback/ease of slurry (I'm pretty sure I just made up 'ease of slurry' for lack of a better term)


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## K813zra

PalmRoyale said:


> I still don't understand the scale he has for hardness and how he determines how hard a stone is. Does he have special equipment to test how hard it is?



He says on one of the pages on his site that he can test the surface hardness of a stone with some sort of machine. He one explained to me about the surface hardness, the hardness of the individual granules and the bonding power all being different or something like that. I guess that is why soft but dense stones can feel hard but hard but porous stones can feel not soft but elastic.

His ratings do give me a general idea when I order from him but if I am unsure I just ask how the stone acts in use. He will give you details on how each stone works and even is willing to take photos of the mud etc.


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## krx927

nutmeg said:


> Stones collection @ Watanabe:



Wau!

But you/he should use wider angle of lens when shooting the pic. I am sure there is much more in those rooms.


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## Krakorak

K813zra said:


> He says on one of the pages on his site that he can test the surface hardness of a stone with some sort of machine. He one explained to me about the surface hardness, the hardness of the individual granules and the bonding power all being different or something like that. I guess that is why soft but dense stones can feel hard but hard but porous stones can feel not soft but elastic.
> 
> His ratings do give me a general idea when I order from him but if I am unsure I just ask how the stone acts in use. He will give you details on how each stone works and even is willing to take photos of the mud etc.



Once we had a similar discussion and he mentioned to me the "grain size, grain kind, grain hardness, the bonding power, the consistency and the structure" as factors playing role in the final feeling...And added also "Generally, harder stone is finer. It is often the bottom layer in the mine. The grain becomes finer with mountain weight and vibration of 2.5milion years."...what also makes sense...And also an example "For example, Omura is coarse stone. Grain kind is like Sand. Each Sand is about HS52. But bonging power is very weak. The consistency and the structure is like sponge. You feel about HS25. During sharpening, the stone is worn off very fast."

And he indeed has a machine for testing of the hardness and measuring of the grain size...But you are fully right that often all the numbers give you only a rough impression what the stone is like and best one should ask him about his opinion and feeling...


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## nutmeg

Anyone tried this kind of medium grit Amakusa stones? They look sexy..


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## K813zra

nutmeg said:


> Anyone tried this kind of medium grit Amakusa stones? They look sexy..



I have one and love it. it is very, very soft and very muddy. It cuts quickly too. Will raise a burr about as fast as a medium coarse synthetic in the 600-800 grit range. Works well on stainless and carbon. I have tested it with just the basics such as White, Blue, AS, 10xx, AUS8/10, AEB-L and 19c27. Contrast is meh and the scratch pattern is very visible as one might expect. If working the cladding you may have to flatten within the same session too, wears fast.







Mine is HS 21. That one you listed should be a bit harder, I guess. I also had one that was HS25 and one that was HS19 but they all seemed very similar. I liked the one I kept best though.


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## PalmRoyale

That's a lot of mud :biggrin:


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## K813zra

PalmRoyale said:


> That's a lot of mud :biggrin:



That photo is not a very good representation either. That stone gets very, very freaking muddy if I let it.


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## Valkyrae

@K813zra how does it compare to a synthetic? I feel like I see most people use synthetics for the lower grit stuff.. and I've just been curious as to why? 

Does the Amakusa just require more maintenance to do the same job as a Shapton or Naniwa stone?


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## K813zra

Valkyrae said:


> @K813zra how does it compare to a synthetic? I feel like I see most people use synthetics for the lower grit stuff.. and I've just been curious as to why?
> 
> Does the Amakusa just require more maintenance to do the same job as a Shapton or Naniwa stone?



Yes, it does require more maintenance. It is so very soft that it just melts under a narrow bevel. It disappears under a wide or single bevel! It has an interesting feel in use though. It is sandy/gritty yet it feels very creamy at the same time. This stone works fast enough but where it shines is in tactile feedback and of course mud production, if that is important to you. 

That said, I had a very hard Amaksua and I hated it. Slow, slow, slow! Something in the middle might be more practical. Like the HS33 pictured above. I had three: HS21, 25 and 45. The 25 was very similar to the 21 but the 45 was not even in the same ballpark. 

That all aside, the Amakusa that I have is fast for a natural but slow if compared to something like a chosera 400. Metal removal is more similar to a chosera 800 but the edge might fall somewhere between them. If you want something faster maybe an Omura. Wakayama is easy to find and come in medium hard and soft variety. Mine is probably closer to the 600 grit range, maybe a wee bit below. Just slightly faster and coarser than my Amakusa. 

Now, my favorite is my Natsuya. It is probably around the 800 range in terms of speed and around 1000 in terms of edge left but the cosmetic finish is higher than that. Not a lot of contrast though. However, it has some of the best tactile feedback I have ever felt in use. Just enough of a sandy feel to tell you that it is abrading steel yet it has some chalky feel to it and as it produces mud it becomes creamy. 

Sorry, I am geeking out here. For me natural stones are about feel in use and cosmetic finish. You know, exploiting all of their features. Thing is, practicality is another matter entirely.


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## Valkyrae

Thank you for the detailed reply!

Do you notice a difference in the end-product if you use an Amakusa for low grit, vs a synthetic, when it comes to polishing? Does the natural give you a better foundation? Or does more time on a medium grit natural make it unnecessary?


----------



## K813zra

Valkyrae said:


> Thank you for the detailed reply!
> 
> Do you notice a difference in the end-product if you use an Amakusa for low grit, vs a synthetic, when it comes to polishing? Does the natural give you a better foundation? Or does more time on a medium grit natural make it unnecessary?



It depends on what was used before the Amakusa. Mine will take out mos 500-600 grit scratches without issue. However some of the coarser stones 400 and below, the scratches will hide in the cladding and show up later on my finishing stone and then I have to drop back. If I spent more time on the Amakusa this would not have been an issue but I saw no indication that I needed to. But yes, adding another mid grit natural in the mix would help this too!


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## Jkts

Other pictures from Watanabes workshop.


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## Valkyrae

K813zra said:


> It depends on what was used before the Amakusa. Mine will take out mos 500-600 grit scratches without issue. However some of the coarser stones 400 and below, the scratches will hide in the cladding and show up later on my finishing stone and then I have to drop back. If I spent more time on the Amakusa this would not have been an issue but I saw no indication that I needed to. But yes, adding another mid grit natural in the mix would help this too!



That's very interesting! Thanks for the info.


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## nutmeg

Nice! I recognize some stones of mine on this pic &#128540;


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## Valkyrae

Jkts said:


> Other pictures from Watanabes workshop.
> 
> View attachment 37875
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 37876
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 37877




I would be so scared to stack stones like that..


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## Interapid101

Valkyrae said:


> I would be so scared to stack stones like that..



Those were EXACTLY the words going through my head when I saw that!


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## nutmeg

Here is a new video from the pictures I made during my visit in Watanabe's factory in August:



Enjoy!


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## nutmeg

bild url hochladen


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## nutmeg




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## Ilia

nutmeg said:


> I was already fan of the knives made by Watanabe, now I had to try his stones.


Stones unlike knives, not quite his


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