# Blues - Fujiwara Denka vs takada vs hitohiro



## Dan E (Feb 5, 2021)

Hi everyone,

I've browsed quite a bit but found not enough information to decide on my next knife buy. Concretely, I have the choice between the fujiwara denka, the takada no hamono blue 2 suiboku, the hitohira tanaka migaki, and the hitohira tanaka Yohri.

I am looking for the knife with the best craft and, if possible, best cutting capability. I prefer not to have a laser as I would imagine it to be too brittle with blue 2 steel.

What are your thoughts on this? I know there is a lot of love for the Fujiwara -- but I wondered if there aren't any serious competitors around the same price point.

Best regards,
Dan

Edit: I am aware of the QC issues people experienced with the fujiwara denka. I can buy those kinves locally and have a thorough glance at it, so I have no risk in receiving a "bad" one. So the question above would be about a flawless denka vs the rest.


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## daddy yo yo (Feb 5, 2021)

Dan E said:


> I know there is a lot of love for the Fujiwara


There is also a lot of hate for TF.



Dan E said:


> So the question above would be about a flawless denka (...)


There is no such thing as a flawless Denka.


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## Barry's Knives (Feb 5, 2021)

the takada no hamono blue 2 suiboku (if not from carbon knife co) is forged by nagakawa from shiraki. His Blue 2 is some of the best and feels utterly beautiful to sharpen. The profile is extremely flat - something that some users prefer and others dont. The tanaka yohei has a very similar grind from what i can tell and has a slightly more rounded profile. The steel will likely hold an edge longer and be a bit stiffer on the stones. The Tanaka migaki (I am assuming sharpened by Kyuzo) will be easier to maintain from a thinning perspective and will cut very well. It is the opinion of some users that the full convex bevel of sharpeners like yohei and takada outperforms wide bevels for cutting performance, but the tradeoff is they are not as straightforward to maintain. My money would be on the Tanaka Yohei in Blue 1 steel but each to their own. I've not used TF so wont comment on them but there is a plethora of info out there.


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## Garm (Feb 5, 2021)

Are all the knives you listed available to you locally to hold and inspect, or were you just referring to the Denka?


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## toddnmd (Feb 5, 2021)

TF, Y Tanaka, and Nagakawa/Shiraki are all very highly respected, hard to go wrong with any. 
It’s really hard for me to know what “best craft” means. I think they’d all be capable cutters. 
I wouldn’t call any of those options lasers, so you’re safe there.
My suggestion would be to go with your preferred aesthetic, as I’d expect all to perform extremely well.


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## Dan E (Feb 5, 2021)

Awesome, thanks a lot for your insights. It’s good to know that all of them seem to be 

@Garm I can handle the TF here, and I think the Yohei and Takada as well. The rest I could get through importers but they might not have them for preview.

mill try to see the TF soon and post some updates here.

best regards!


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## Garm (Feb 5, 2021)

Dan E said:


> I can handle the TF here, and I think the Yohei and Takada as well.


Then I would go with whichever you most like the the feel, balance and profile of once you have it in your hands. I haven't used any of the knives you mention(I have used other knives by TF, but not a Denka), but you're choosing between pretty high-end knives that should all perform very well. 
I read a knife review here on the forum which included a score on a criterion that I've not seen mentioned often, but I thought was extremely apt: "grabability"
Which knife has that feel in hand and ease of use that would make you more likely to reach for it most often? This isn't necessarily as simple to gauge just by holding it in a store, but for me personally, that initial feeling is seldom too far off at least.


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## EShin (Feb 5, 2021)

Garm said:


> Then I would go with whichever you most like the the feel, balance and profile of once you have it in your hands. I haven't used any of the knives you mention(I have used other knives by TF, but not a Denka), but you're choosing between pretty high-end knives that should all perform very well.
> I read a knife review here on the forum which included a score on a criterion that I've not seen mentioned often, but I thought was extremely apt: "grabability"
> Which knife has that feel in hand and ease of use that would make you more likely to reach for it most often? This isn't necessarily as simple to gauge just by holding it in a store, but for me personally, that initial feeling is seldom too far off at least.


Completely agree! If you’re actually able to handle most of these knives, let that guide your decision. Craft and cutting capability should
all be outstanding as others have pointed out, but actually trying them is the best way to see which one suits your hands and technique best, or which one just feels special. Especially important with the TF Denka, as there seem to be plenty of not really great examples despite the high price. I hand picked mine at the store in Tokyo a few years back (when prices where much more reasonable) and I’d choose it over any other knive I’ve handled thus far. Some people have the same experience, others dislike them, which is understandable, too. Anyway, let us know how the different knives felt and which one you chose!


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## JimMaple98 (Feb 7, 2021)

I own a Takada white 2 and a Y.Tanaka blue 1 yohei, the Takada knives are significantly more flat, whereas the Tanaka has a gentle continuous curve, which you would find to be more versatile. 
The Tanaka has a sandblasted finish which will make it incredibly reactive, it’s advisable to sand down theface of the blade to decrease this reactivity, but the Takada has a beautiful finish which will get hidden by patina and removed when thinning.

both very very good knives, but they have their significant differences


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## andrewsa (Feb 7, 2021)

Barry's Knives said:


> the takada no hamono blue 2 suiboku (if not from carbon knife co) is forged by nagakawa from shiraki. His Blue 2 is some of the best and feels utterly beautiful to sharpen. The profile is extremely flat - something that some users prefer and others dont. The tanaka yohei has a very similar grind from what i can tell and has a slightly more rounded profile. The steel will likely hold an edge longer and be a bit stiffer on the stones. The Tanaka migaki (I am assuming sharpened by Kyuzo) will be easier to maintain from a thinning perspective and will cut very well. It is the opinion of some users that the full convex bevel of sharpeners like yohei and takada outperforms wide bevels for cutting performance, but the tradeoff is they are not as straightforward to maintain. My money would be on the Tanaka Yohei in Blue 1 steel but each to their own. I've not used TF so wont comment on them but there is a plethora of info out there.



I was wondering have you used Nakagawa's White 2 or 1? If so how do you think it compares to his Blue 2 for the Suiboku? I've stuck myself in the realm of white steel because of the ease of feel and feedback from sharpening. I own his White 2 and I highly rate it for cutting feel and sharpening. As a home cook; I'm not concerned with edge retention but mainly things on "feeling" to make it more enjoyable. 

I haven't reached to the point of thinning but I thought thinning full convex bevel knives would be easier than wide bevels? My main concern when the time comes I'll end up making a wobbly Shinogi line and ruin the Migaki finish on the Hira.


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## Dan E (Feb 7, 2021)

daddy yo yo said:


> There is also a lot of hate for TF.
> 
> There is no such thing as a flawless Denka.



I read that QC was an issue. Locally, there is a retailer who offers to work on the blade to fine-tune it. I planned to look into this soon.


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## Dan E (Feb 7, 2021)

Thanks everyone for the valuable insights. After a lot of reading and thinking I got a Toyama gyuto the other day.

This being said, I am still in for looking at the Takada blue and was advised to check out the Togashi blue (with stainless cladding as I am close to the Sea) as well. Seemingly all of those blades have great finishing and it boils down -- as some of you said -- to own preference in profile and look.

Best regards,
Dan


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## Runner_up (Feb 7, 2021)

Certainly can't go wrong with a Toyama. I am on the hunt for an older 270mm iron clad gyutos. 

His blue#2 is wonderful.


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## adam92 (Feb 8, 2021)

daddy yo yo said:


> There is also a lot of hate for TF.
> 
> There is no such thing as a flawless Denka.


I'm totally agree with you.


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## Corradobrit1 (Feb 8, 2021)

adam92 said:


> I'm totally agree with you.


Didn't you have a Maboroshi?

Lemeneid is expecting delivery of his perfect Denka very soon.


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## adam92 (Feb 8, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Didn't you have a Maboroshi?
> 
> Lemeneid is expecting delivery of his perfect Denka very soon.


I return my TF Maboroshi after get the grind issue knife, TF refuse to take it back & I complain thought PayPal.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Feb 8, 2021)

adam92 said:


> I return my TF Maboroshi after get the grind issue knife, TF refuse to take it back & I complain thought PayPal.



did paypal refund you?


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## adam92 (Feb 8, 2021)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> did paypal refund you?


Yes.


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## Dan E (Feb 8, 2021)

does this mean that they forced you to send the knife back or could you keep cash and blade?


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## adam92 (Feb 8, 2021)

Dan E said:


> does this mean that they forced you to send the knife back or could you keep cash and blade?


They said I have to send the knife back, otherwise they're not gonna pay me back my money, I did, & I didn't need ****** knife as well, so I don't care if I keep the blade or not.


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## nyc (Feb 26, 2021)

TF is probably one of the most misunderstood knife brands out there. That link from a German knife forum which @Corradobrit1 shared on another thread pretty much sums it up.
There exists a chasm between what they offer in terms of finishing and the expectations of buyers (especially in the Western market). We can be certain they face no such issues in their domestic market where they see things differently. (That thread addresses this.)
I had my misgivings having read about the issues here and elsewhere, but felt intrigued enough to take the plunge.
From a purely functional perspective they are uncompromising. @lemeneid was spot on in past posts when he said wonky or not, they cut like nothing else out there. My own experience is that they take an insanely sharp edge and hold it for the longest time. I’ve “abused” mine prep after prep and the edge still holds (like it was freshly sharpened with just a strop on linen). It has no business doing so, but it does.
Is mine wonky? Yes it is. Would it offend some buyers out there? For sure. Does it get in the way of cutting? Not even in the least. To me, they are an absolute joy to use. My only regret is not getting into it sooner.


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## GorillaGrunt (Feb 27, 2021)

Denka is on my list of the next few to buy. I’ve had two Maboroshi: the first was pretty good, certainly worth the money alongside my others at a similar price, but I didn’t like the profile as much. Gave it to someone who ended up giving it back (long story, not because she didn’t like the knife) then traded it. The second I liked the profile more and it again was a perfectly fine cutting tool with excellent steel.

Then during the extra free time I’ve had due to the pandemic I’ve gotten much more practice at thinning, polishing, and reshaping. The Mab is one of the knives I’ve done some more work on and now holy Moses does it go. And I’m sure it can be made even better. For the dream knife thread, how about a Denka ground by Morihiro or Kato?

So I believe TFs are knives that require opening just like traditional single bevels. It ships with a usable edge but almost invariably requires a full opening to release its full potential, and this is a feature of one form of the traditional craft, not a bug.


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## Southpaw (Feb 27, 2021)

I have a Nakagawa Suiboku in blue 2 and let me tell you.... it is LEGIT! Best laser I own and cuts so well with a great treat on Blue 2 (which was at the bottom of my hitachi Carbon list until now)


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## Leo Barr (Feb 27, 2021)

nyc said:


> TF is probably one of the most misunderstood knife brands out there. That link from a German knife forum which @Corradobrit1 shared on another thread pretty much sums it up.
> There exists a chasm between what they offer in terms of finishing and the expectations of buyers (especially in the Western market). We can be certain they face no such issues in their domestic market where they see things differently. (That thread addresses this.)
> I had my misgivings having read about the issues here and elsewhere, but felt intrigued enough to take the plunge.
> From a purely functional perspective they are uncompromising. @lemeneid was spot on in past posts when he said wonky or not, they cut like nothing else out there. My own experience is that they take an insanely sharp edge and hold it for the longest time. I’ve “abused” mine prep after prep and the edge still holds (like it was freshly sharpened with just a strop on linen). It has no business doing so, but it does.
> Is mine wonky? Yes it is. Would it offend some buyers out there? For sure. Does it get in the way of cutting? Not even in the least. To me, they are an absolute joy to use. My only regret is not getting into it sooner.


I agree the finish is not great but once they have been flattened they are awesome they fit two levels for a sharpener those that do not work beyond the edge fine but for a sharpener that works on the wide bevel then the edge there is some work to do I feel that there are many wide bevel knives that have hollows & hills I imagine it is a way to save money for the buyer. Chisels come with a minimal finish & the discerning user will do quite a lot of work on them before using.


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## Checkpure (Feb 27, 2021)

andrewsa said:


> I was wondering have you used Nakagawa's White 2 or 1? If so how do you think it compares to his Blue 2 for the Suiboku? I've stuck myself in the realm of white steel because of the ease of feel and feedback from sharpening. I own his White 2 and I highly rate it for cutting feel and sharpening. As a home cook; I'm not concerned with edge retention but mainly things on "feeling" to make it more enjoyable.
> 
> I haven't reached to the point of thinning but I thought thinning full convex bevel knives would be easier than wide bevels? My main concern when the time comes I'll end up making a wobbly Shinogi line and ruin the Migaki finish on the Hira.


My blue 2 gyuto from nakagawa holds the edge better than my white 2 but not by much. Both are fantastic to sharpen. Def had low spots and an issue thinning the knives which results in a wavy shinogi line on the nakiri. Not going to bother fixing it till it needs more thinning. Lovely knives.


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## Checkpure (Feb 27, 2021)

Also my Denka didn’t get any sharper or hold it’s edge profoundly better than my Nakagawa in blue 2. It also would have required about 8 hours of thinning to get it to perform better on carrots and potatoes.


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## DitmasPork (Mar 1, 2021)

Dan E said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've browsed quite a bit but found not enough information to decide on my next knife buy. Concretely, I have the choice between the fujiwara denka, the takada no hamono blue 2 suiboku, the hitohira tanaka migaki, and the hitohira tanaka Yohri.
> 
> ...



I have both a 240 TF denka and 240 Takada, suibiko, blue 1—both very different knives, both awesome knives, depends on your tastes. Takada f&f is top notch; with denka you gotta embrace rusticness, imperfections—both are very distinctive knives aesthetically. Regarding overall performance—both are wonderful knives in their own right—Takada a more precise, finesse cutter, thinner, more laserish; denka I'll use as a more all-around gyuto. Takada is a better balanced, nimbler knife to me. Steel quality from both makers is stellar IMO. I personally wouldn't rate one over the other, love them both. Denka will probably take more work on your end to work out any wonkiness; Takada suibiko would win a beauty pageant. My long winded way of saying you can't go wrong—once you decide what you value in a knife, what your tastes are.


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## adam92 (Mar 1, 2021)

I gonna try takada one day


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## andrewsa (Mar 1, 2021)

If you are looking to get the Takada no Hamono B2 Suiboku also have a look at the Hitohira Kikuchiyo Yohei 240mm Aogami2. 

The only difference between those two is the finish which reflects upon the pricing and also the specs on paper are just a tad bit thicker (0.03mm) than the Suiboku since you're after something that's not a laser. 

Both are the same steel forged by the same person. Shiraki = Nakagawa = Kikuchiyo along with it being sharpened/finished by the same person. Takada no Hamono = Yohei.


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## Checkpure (Mar 1, 2021)

andrewsa said:


> If you are looking to get the Takada no Hamono B2 Suiboku also have a look at the Hitohira Kikuchiyo Yohei 240mm Aogami2.
> 
> The only difference between those two is the finish which reflects upon the pricing and also the specs on paper are just a tad bit thicker (0.03mm) than the Suiboku since you're after something that's not a laser.
> 
> Both are the same steel forged by the same person. Shiraki = Nakagawa = Kikuchiyo along with it being sharpened/finished by the same person. Takada no Hamono = Yohei.



Strongly endorse this blade. Wish I had gotten one with this finish.


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## DitmasPork (Mar 2, 2021)

So difficult comparing these two very different gyutos. What’s better red or white wine; steak or paella; Harley-Davidson or Triumph?
As I mentioned earlier, I love both these knives.
Denka undoubtedly has a more vocal cult following, potentially easier to sell on, albeit considerably more expensive than Takada.
Personally, if I didn’t have any knives and had to choose between the two—and my parameters were a comfortable knife to use all day, I’d go with the Takada. I prefer the profile more; it goes through food easier; f&f is wonderful; lighter and nimbler than the TF denka.
If wanting a great performing knife with a good dose of rustic wonkiness, then denka all the way.

Takada is beautiful in its understated elegance; denka makes a louder aesthetic statement of rustic authorship.


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## McMan (Mar 2, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> So difficult comparing these two very different gyutos.
> What’s better red or white wine; steak or paella; Harley-Davidson or Triumph?


Red > White
Steak > Paella
Triumph > Harley


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## DitmasPork (Mar 2, 2021)

McMan said:


> Red > White
> Steak > Paella
> Triumph > Harley


Those would be my choices as well.


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## GorillaGrunt (Mar 2, 2021)

Triumph but don’t tell my Milwaukee neighbors I said that


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 2, 2021)

HD are the Takeda AS of the motorcycle world. TF would be a Ducati, full of soul, all about performance and with lots of quirks.


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## Checkpure (Mar 2, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> HD are the Takeda AS of the motorcycle world. TF would be a Ducati, full of soul, all about performance and with lots of quirks.


If your Ducati came in a box with a sticker on it that said "Assembly Required".


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## Alder26 (Mar 2, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> HD are the Takeda AS of the motorcycle world. TF would be a Ducati, full of soul, all about performance and with lots of quirks.



The comparison of TF knives to Italian sports cars may be the most apt I've seen yet. Buying a TF is very much like staring at a Lancia or Alfa Romeo and wanting it soooo bad, but knowing despite how great it probably drives....it might catch on fire just sitting in your driveway


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 2, 2021)

Alder26 said:


> The comparison of TF knives to Italian sports cars may be the most apt I've seen yet. Buying a TF is very much like staring at a Lancia or Alfa Romeo and wanting it soooo bad, but knowing despite how great it probably drives....it might catch on fire just sitting in your driveway


Or rust into oblivion.


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## Dan E (Mar 2, 2021)

Lol I was playing again with the thought of looking at a 210 denka but the more I read about it the more it seems like the knife will frustrate me


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## Checkpure (Mar 2, 2021)

Dan E said:


> Lol I was playing again with the thought of looking at a 210 denka but the more I read about it the more it seems like the knife will frustrate me


I’d buy another 240 in the future once I become a pro at bench stone grinding. Seems like a great place to start a long project if money isn’t a concern. I’ve gone to work on a few knives with basic low spots and that took hours and was a learning process. The diet a Denka needs to shine is a wee bit more than the diet I needed to cut the quarantine fifteen.


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## lemeneid (Mar 2, 2021)

Alder26 said:


> The comparison of TF knives to Italian sports cars may be the most apt I've seen yet. Buying a TF is very much like staring at a Lancia or Alfa Romeo and wanting it soooo bad, but knowing despite how great it probably drives....it might catch on fire just sitting in your driveway


Nah, TF is like buying a Porsche 911R (my unicorn car) and complaining about it’s uncomfortable bucket seats, lack of rear passenger seats, GPS or that it only comes in manual transmission whilst forgetting about the fact this car destroys every car on the Nurburgring.


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## Barmoley (Mar 3, 2021)

I am generalizing but it seems that most people complaining about TFs never used one. Some people did run into bad examples especially a few years ago, but most TFs seem to perform very well, regardless of perceived f&f issues. I get that paying a lot of money and getting a knife with low spots sucks, but most of these don’t make the knife cut bad. One might argue that it decreases the life of the knife, but very few people actually use these knives enough to run into issues due to low spots. Bolster issues are mostly superficial and don’t effect performance. I‘ve only seen 3 denkas and 2 mabs, so very little sample size but all were good knives that cut very well. Clearly there are enough problem TFs out there, but it gets tiresome when people who never used one keep on complaining about fit and finish of these knives.


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 3, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> I am generalizing but it seems that most people complaining about TFs never used one. Some people did run into bad examples especially a few years ago, but most TFs seem to perform very well, regardless of perceived f&f issues. I get that paying a lot of money and getting a knife with low spots sucks, but most of these don’t make the knife cut bad. One might argue that it decreases the life of the knife, but very few people actually use these knives enough to run into issues due to low spots. Bolster issues are mostly superficial and don’t effect performance. I‘ve only seen 3 denkas and 2 mabs, so very little sample size but all were good knives that cut very well. Clearly there are enough problem TFs out there, but it gets tiresome when people who never used one keep on complaining about fit and finish of these knives.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 3, 2021)

lemeneid said:


> Nah, TF is like buying a Porsche 911R (my unicorn car) and complaining about it’s uncomfortable bucket seats, lack of rear passenger seats, GPS or that it only comes in manual transmission whilst forgetting about the fact this car destroys every car on the Nurburgring.



I dont understand your analogy.

Porsche is the most detail oriented car maker; legitimate antithesis of TF aesthetic.

that said I have a less expensive tf as a petty where stainless lamination makes more sense and it has a chestnut handle and as such makes for a perfectly reasonable small knife. in fact there's another thing where the 911R comparison doesnt make sense; stainless clad carbon is definitely a compromise.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 3, 2021)

look if someone wants a TF specifically, go for it. I just cant recommend any of them other than the reasonably priced smaller knives / nashiji knives over any other well made knife just because their pricing is completely disjointed from what they deliver. I would pay that price only if I really wanted a TF specifically.

there are some great knives available at that price, and pretty much all of them offer more for your dollar and again in a head-to-head it's so stark it's hard to ignore.


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## nyc (Mar 3, 2021)

I started out like many here being taken aback by the apparent fit and finish/QC issues - questioning how can the knives with such “issues” have the price tags that they do. That said, I remained intrigued, telling myself that there must be something to them. After all, they continue to be sought after. And so with that, I took the plunge.
I have to say my only regret is not jumping in sooner. Social media, forums have a tendency to amplify issues or problems to the point that they are out of proportion.
All said and done, TFs are still sought after and there are many happy owners out there. Just on this thread alone I can see them. As @Barmoley said most accurately and he isn’t the only one, those “issues” never get in the way of performance. They cut and hold their edge like nothing else.
TFs work for me because I only look at sharpness and retention. It’s a knife after all no? A tool. So all the so-called “issues” don’t bother me. I don’t ease choils or spines, nor fill in gaps between the tang and the scales etc, etc. I just use them. And boy, do they cut well.


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## Checkpure (Mar 3, 2021)

nyc said:


> I started out like many here being taken aback by the apparent fit and finish/QC issues - questioning how can the knives with such “issues” have the price tags that they do. That said, I remained intrigued, telling myself that there must be something to them. After all, they continue to be sought after. And so with that, I took the plunge.
> I have to say my only regret is not jumping in sooner. Social media, forums have a tendency to amplify issues or problems to the point that they are out of proportion.
> All said and done, TFs are still sought after and there are many happy owners out there. Just on this thread alone I can see them. As @Barmoley said most accurately and he isn’t the only one, those “issues” never get in the way of performance. They cut and hold their edge like nothing else.
> TFs work for me because I only look at sharpness and retention. It’s a knife after all no? A tool. So all the so-called “issues” don’t bother me. I don’t ease choils or spines, nor fill in gaps between the tang and the scales etc, etc. I just use them. And boy, do they cut well.


My only questions are, did you thin the knife? If so how much and how long did it take on a low grit stone?

Those two questions go to Lemeneid and all the other Denka fans. They are fine knives for sure but who is using them as they came out of the box? 

Forget fit and finish, how does it move through food stock?


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## nyc (Mar 3, 2021)

Checkpure said:


> My only questions are, did you thin the knife? If so how much and how long did it take on a low grit stone?
> 
> Those two questions go to Lemeneid and all the other Denka fans. They are fine knives for sure but who is using them as they came out of the box?
> 
> Forget fit and finish, how does it move through food stock?



Nope. No thinning. I use as is. No issues at all. For TF it’s the steel, the heat treat, sharpness and edge retention. @captaincaed said his Denka is like a wolf on steroids. I thought how apt when I read that.


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## Helicon (Mar 3, 2021)

nyc said:


> is like a wolf on steroids


Sounds dire


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## Checkpure (Mar 3, 2021)

nyc said:


> Nope. No thinning. I use as is. No issues at all. For TF it’s the steel, the heat treat, sharpness and edge retention. @captaincaed said his Denka is like a wolf on steroids. I thought how apt when I read that.


Thats awesome. Mine was so thick towards the heel wedging was terrible in that section, had to use the tip solely for carrot work. 

If you find the time (no big deal if not) could you put up a video of you cutting a carrot and potato towards the heel/middle of the knife? Would love to see how much better yours is stock than mine. I'm not talking overgrinds or anything like that.


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## captaincaed (Mar 3, 2021)

Back when my knife skills were crap


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## Checkpure (Mar 3, 2021)

captaincaed said:


> Back when my knife skills were crap



Yea I actually saw this on youtube before my purchase. Moves through much better than mine but would need to see more testing etc.


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## nyc (Mar 3, 2021)

And I was just gonna say @captaincaed has a video or two. @lemeneid as well.


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## nyc (Mar 3, 2021)

Helicon said:


> Sounds dire



Actually I think it was cocaine.


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## lemeneid (Mar 3, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> I dont understand your analogy.
> 
> Porsche is the most detail oriented car maker; legitimate antithesis of TF aesthetic.
> 
> that said I have a less expensive tf as a petty where stainless lamination makes more sense and it has a chestnut handle and as such makes for a perfectly reasonable small knife. in fact there's another thing where the 911R comparison doesnt make sense; stainless clad carbon is definitely a compromise.


Their details are never asthetic, but all performance focused. Eg, larger intakes for turbos, magnesium wheels and roof to cut weight, vinyl stickers and nylon door pulls for weight reduction, etc...

If you noticed, asthetic and quality of life details are an afterthought for them. Their infotainment system is archaic, and their interiors are pretty bare and basic, even for their “luxury” Panamera and Cayenne models.

They couldn’t be more similar to TF where what you’re getting is focused solely on performance with aesthetics and finishes an afterthought.

And how is stainless clad “compromising”? As far as we know TF invented stainless cladding and made carbon knives easier to maintain. Again,if you’re comparing it to the 911R, manual transmission is for purists. But if you just want pure speed and power, GT2RS and GT3RS are still there for you.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 3, 2021)

lemeneid said:


> Their details are never asthetic, but all performance focused. Eg, larger intakes for turbos, magnesium wheels and roof to cut weight, vinyl stickers and nylon door pulls for weight reduction, etc...
> 
> If you noticed, asthetic and quality of life details are an afterthought for them. Their infotainment system is archaic, and their interiors are pretty bare and basic, even for their “luxury” Panamera and Cayenne models.
> 
> ...



rofl.

Id say "you cant be serious" but I suspect you are.


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## lemeneid (Mar 3, 2021)

Checkpure said:


> My only questions are, did you thin the knife? If so how much and how long did it take on a low grit stone?
> 
> Those two questions go to Lemeneid and all the other Denka fans. They are fine knives for sure but who is using them as they came out of the box?
> 
> Forget fit and finish, how does it move through food stock?


My Denka was perfect ootb. I did thin it eventually, but found not much tangible benefit to doing so.

Think I posted a video a while back showing it compared to a Toyama honyaki.


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 3, 2021)

I don't think I'd want a denka any thinner than this. Used daily for the past 2.5 years. Edge touched up on a fine grit Jnat once a month. Used for about 80% of the tasks in the kitchen, a beater TF Nashiji which is thicker behind the edge for everything else.


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## Eloh (Mar 4, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> look if someone wants a TF specifically, go for it. I just cant recommend any of them



Basically this, the only reason I sometimes join this discussion is because beginners read these threads for information.


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## Checkpure (Mar 4, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> I don't think I'd want a denka any thinner than this. Used daily for the past 2.5 years. Edge touched up on a fine grit Jnat once a month. Used for about 80% of the tasks in the kitchen, a beater TF Nashiji which is thicker behind the edge for everything else.


Yea thats half the thickness of mine. That would work just fine and was going to be the goal thinness for mine if I kept it. I'll try another one at some point just for fun but that will be one I pick out in person at a shop.


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## DitmasPork (Mar 4, 2021)

Eloh said:


> Basically this, the only reason I sometimes join this discussion is because beginners read these threads for information.



I’ve no issue recommending a TF denka, Kato or other pricey knife to a first time J-knife buyer—provided they go into it with eyes wide open. If they have the funds and wanna jump the queue of ‘intro knives’ then all power to them. Different trajectories for different knife buyers. No harm in learning how to sharpen, chipping and tipping a Kato—it’s their money, their knife journey. Think a Kono Fujiyama was the 2nd j-knife I bought, no regrets.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 4, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> I’ve no issue recommending a TF denka, Kato or other pricey knife to a first time J-knife buyer—provided they go into it with eyes wide open. If they have the funds and wanna jump the queue of ‘intro knives’ then all power to them. Different trajectories for different knife buyers. No harm in learning how to sharpen, chipping and tipping a Kato—it’s their money, their knife journey. Think a Kono Fujiyama was the 2nd j-knife I bought, no regrets.



I actually very much agree with you, it's just that for me I dont think a Kato seriously outperforms all other knives, and I dont even think a TF is a better knife than most knives. 

at least when someone buys a Kato, they get (IMO) a best in class knife. well once you put a reasonable handle on it anyway. I know some people consider TF to be best in class but I simply do not agree.


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 4, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> I know some people consider TF to be best in class but I simply do not agree.


Everyone is welcome to their opinion but many disagree. Personally I do think they are best in class for rustic, in-house forged, performance focused, artisanal handmade blades with an interesting back story. Look at how many actually end up on BST. Very few.


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## DitmasPork (Mar 4, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> I actually very much agree with you, it's just that for me I dont think a Kato seriously outperforms all other knives, and I dont even think a TF is a better knife than most knives.
> 
> at least when someone buys a Kato, they get (IMO) a best in class knife. well once you put a reasonable handle on it anyway. I know some people consider TF to be best in class but I simply do not agree.



Agree. Think is depends on the user, and their preferences, I know some that dislike the performance of denkas, katos, shigs, and other's who're fans. With a denka, a 240mm gyuto costs about $850—there're a huge range of excellent knives at and below that price range depending on what the buyer wants—but devotees would argue that there's nothing like a denka, a great performer and worth every penny. Bang-for-buck probably not a concern if they're considering a denka or kato—performance not the primary objective for some buyers; some would rather have a trendy, collectible piece of kitchen bling than a best-in-class-performer, which is fine. Great thing about a denka, is that if buyer hates it, they can easily sell it. TBH, for most neophyte J-knife buyers, I usually just recommend Gesshin Stainless, Misono or Mac.

Sorry to OP for veering off topic. What have you decided?


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## vxd (Mar 4, 2021)

nyc said:


> I started out like many here being taken aback by the apparent fit and finish/QC issues - questioning how can the knives with such “issues” have the price tags that they do. That said, I remained intrigued, telling myself that there must be something to them. After all, they continue to be sought after. And so with that, I took the plunge.
> I have to say my only regret is not jumping in sooner. Social media, forums have a tendency to amplify issues or problems to the point that they are out of proportion.
> All said and done, TFs are still sought after and there are many happy owners out there. Just on this thread alone I can see them. As @Barmoley said most accurately and he isn’t the only one, those “issues” never get in the way of performance. They cut and hold their edge like nothing else.
> TFs work for me because I only look at sharpness and retention. It’s a knife after all no? A tool. So all the so-called “issues” don’t bother me. I don’t ease choils or spines, nor fill in gaps between the tang and the scales etc, etc. I just use them. And boy, do they cut well.


Another happy TF owner here. Progressed from Nashiji to Denka. Enjoy every second cutting or sharpening.


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## Pisau (Aug 16, 2021)

andrewsa said:


> If you are looking to get the Takada no Hamono B2 Suiboku also have a look at the Hitohira Kikuchiyo Yohei 240mm Aogami2. *Dead link is redirected to 2x Tanaka Yohei 240mm, both sold out*
> 
> The only difference between those two is the finish which reflects upon the pricing and also the specs on paper are just a tad bit thicker (0.03mm) than the Suiboku since you're after something that's not a laser.
> 
> Both are the same steel forged by the same person. Shiraki = Nakagawa = Kikuchiyo along with it being sharpened/finished by the same person. Takada no Hamono = Yohei.





Checkpure said:


> Strongly endorse this blade. Wish I had gotten one with this finish.



Thanks for the push fellas. My first "good" knife. Here's a pic for some closure...







The magnetic single stand was made out of scrap timber by yours truly. I'll post the DIY steps on another thread if anyone is interested...


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## matto (Oct 16, 2022)

Barry's Knives said:


> the takada no hamono blue 2 suiboku (if not from carbon knife co) is forged by nagakawa from shiraki.



What is different about Takadas sent to Carbon? 

And MTC? 

I ask because there's one sitting at MTC but dang it's expensive. I'm trying to understand if I'm even comparing apples to apples or not.


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## blokey (Oct 16, 2022)

matto said:


> What is different about Takadas sent to Carbon?
> 
> And MTC?
> 
> I ask because there's one sitting at MTC but dang it's expensive. I'm trying to understand if I'm even comparing apples to apples or not.


Takada blue #1 is by Yoshikazu Tanaka


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## matto (Oct 16, 2022)

blokey said:


> Takada blue #1 is by Yoshikazu Tanaka


Ah, got it, thanks.

This MTC and this Carbon Knife Co are both #1 and mention Yoshikazu Tanaka.


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