# Whatever happened to Aritsugu A-type?



## TDj (Oct 3, 2011)

Hey guys,

Whatever happened to Aritusugu A-type? Is that soooo 3 years ago? I just thought about it when I was posting at KF - but I figure that over here it might get more response - especially b/c I'm sure that Dave has sharpened his fair share of A-types. So do they live up to their hype? Are they tougher than anything else out there? Semi-stainless, right? And at 240, they're not super-thick. Souns like a winner, no?


----------



## bprescot (Oct 3, 2011)

I had one and ended up selling it. I've no idea if the steel is as awesome as it's cracked up to be, simply because the profile was such that I never really used it. It's super easy to keep an edge if all you do is sit in a knife block. For me, the profile was just too dead flat, and the angle of attack was wrong... I just didn't like the shape of the blade.


----------



## SpikeC (Oct 3, 2011)

There are discussions of it here and there, mostly about how much it needs to be thinned behind the edge.


----------



## memorael (Oct 3, 2011)

Its a monster of a knife, the steel gets a real aggressive edge and its a real pain to sharpen for the first time since it comes with no edge whatsoever and the steel is real abrasive resistant. As mentioned for it to shine it has to be thinned and well good luck with that.

BUT! if you put the work into it you will reap the rewards of a good knife. You can also just purchase something like a HD or other tool steel knife and skip the whole thinning shenanigans. I guess it really so last 3 years.


----------



## TDj (Oct 3, 2011)

i think the 270 was indeed a monster - extremely thick. But the 240, from what I recall was as thin as Suisin at the spine - maybe a little beefier behind the edge, but nothing like the 270. With all this talk, I kind of want to get a 240 to check it out ... and if i'm in over my head, i can always have our local expert work his magic ...


----------



## JohnnyChance (Oct 3, 2011)

TDj said:


> i think the 270 was indeed a monster - extremely thick. But the 240, from what I recall was as thin as Suisin at the spine - maybe a little beefier behind the edge, but nothing like the 270. With all this talk, I kind of want to get a 240 to check it out ... and if i'm in over my head, i can always have our local expert work his magic ...



IIRC, Dave no longer accepts thinning jobs for A-types because they are so time consuming.


----------



## Dave Martell (Oct 3, 2011)

JohnnyChance said:


> IIRC, Dave no longer accepts thinning jobs for A-types because they are so time consuming.



Yes this is true.....and I'm happy to have made that decision.


----------



## tk59 (Oct 3, 2011)

I still have, use and enjoy my 240 A-type. It isn't absurdly thick at the spine (just over 2 mm) but that is thicker than you might expect when the knife is 45 mm tall. If it was 50+ mm tall at the heel, it would feel significantly thinner. The steel is wear resistant but it doesn't seem as much so as everyone makes it out to be. The edge also seems to deform more easily than I expected at the reported ~60 hrc. Sometime later, someone (Rottman, I believe.) tested it at 58 hrc and also tested the composition which proved to be fairly unremarkable, if I recall correctly. It was a pretty clean carbon steel with a fair bit of chromium in it. I learned a lot about geometry by essentially using this knife as a blank to slowly make my own custom knife. I'd grind some and test and grind and test, etc. ...a very cool experience.


----------



## Seb (Oct 3, 2011)

I have a 210mm which I have sharpened to 99/1 at 10-degrees. It took about an hour or maybe a bit more... it is a great performer.


----------



## TDj (Oct 3, 2011)

that was a fairly informative post - i seem to remember that post now that you mention it. thanks for reminding me.


----------



## Citizen Snips (Nov 11, 2011)

so i found this thread while i was doing some searching and would like to revisit this.

i have recently decided that i want a 240mm gyuto to go along with my 270mm HD. i am not looking for a laser, but more of a workhorse. i want something that will take some abuse and will act as the opposite of the HD. i need something that will withstand like 20lb of winter squash and then some. my HD could do it but i want to reserve it for a bit more delicate work. 

also having a spare gyuto in the bag will be advantageous and as much as i would like the HD to have a suisin inox brother, it will not be as versatile of a setup.

i feel like an a-type could be exactly what im looking for. i know they take some time to thin out and i dont mind spending the time if it is going to be what i want in the end. it took me a few hours to get my HD where i want it anyway. i feel like i sharpen my HD currently the way you would have to sharpen the a-type.

so anyway, if i could get some advice on whether to pass or pull the trigger here or any other suggestions for a knife that would fit my description, it would be appreciated.


----------



## JohnnyChance (Nov 11, 2011)

Shoulda grabbed that Heiji that was in the BST earlier this week!

Do you want to keep it stainless/semi stainless? I prefer my DT ITK to my A-Type, both are more robust than lasers, but still cut well. With a little more work the A-type could be as good or better than the ITK, perfomance wise. The A-type is obviously cheaper and more readily available, but I find the stock handle to be completely unsatisfactory. Plan on a new one...maybe Darkhoek or mhenry can make you an ebony and marble horn handle to match the rest of your kit. I would also get it stock and put an edge on it yourself. Even if you have to buy a new stone to do the job and have never tackled something like this before, it will most likely come out better than the farmed out "pro" jobs that are offered some places.


----------



## tk59 (Nov 12, 2011)

+1 on the Heiji... I'm kicking myself for not grabbing that. What other knives to consider... I love my A-type. It had enought meat on it to modify the geometry to exactly what I wanted. +1 on the UNSHARPENED. The handle is a little odd in that it is normal height and length but narrow in width. I don't really mind it but I can see why someone would want to switch it out. The other knife I'd consider is a Yoshikane. One thing about those is I've seen two 270's (one wa and the other yo) and seen measurements for another wa and yo. It seems the thickness of the knives may vary considerably. Both the thick one I tried and the thin one are excellent cutters but one is a BEAST. I would recommend it but you should call up the seller and get dimensions so you get what you're expecting. The same thing goes with the DTITK suggestion. Depending on which batch it came from, there will be significant differences.


----------



## James (Nov 12, 2011)

don't forget about the hiro as too


----------



## rhygin (Nov 12, 2011)

Agreed with tk,totally. For better or worse, the forums tend to be a reflection on what's new and interesting at the moment. But that doesn't mean there aren't tons of other great tools out there - it's just that they have been discussed already, so people move on to newer topics. It's a personal peeve of mine, since the knives that we're great 5 years ago may still be great now.

My experience with my own wa - Yoshikane has been great. It's definitely a beast, a workhorse, but it's a great knife. I don't know if we're allowed to reference this forum (if we're not, I apologize), but a good review is at: http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?1989-My-new-favorite-gyuto&highlight=yoshikane

Another workhorse that doesn't get many comments now, but is absolutely worth looking at is the Watanabe gyuto. Have one of those and consider him a master craftsman.

Never tried the A-type, but one comment that I remember is that some buyers had negative comments about the original sharpening. The thought back in day was that it might be best to order one without a bevel to be able to tune it to your own preference. But someone with more experience can probably address whether that's a good idea.


----------



## Sarge (Nov 12, 2011)

Another option could be a Yoshihiro from JKI. Not a laser but a clunker either all the feedback I have heard has been very positive. I'm planning on purchasing one as soon as I donate enough plasma to cover it and my current gyuto wears out.

I'm also still considering an A-type myself I prefer knives with flatter profiles and it certainly has one.


----------



## tk59 (Nov 12, 2011)

One more thing about the A-type: I wish it were more pointed. And +1 to the Yoshihiro. The one I bought from Ben is holding up very nicely.


----------



## jonnachang (Nov 12, 2011)

I have a Mizuno-Tenrenjo to go along with my Ikkanshi and it is a work horse.


----------



## ecchef (Nov 12, 2011)

So far, discussion has centered on gyutos. How about the single bevels?


----------



## obtuse (Nov 12, 2011)

I have a 270mm a-type. I might finally use it the day I get a belt grinder.


----------



## tk59 (Nov 12, 2011)

ecchef said:


> So far, discussion has centered on gyutos. How about the single bevels?


I don't think of single bevel knives as all around workhorses. What are you suggesting?


----------



## heirkb (Nov 12, 2011)

I think he meant the A-type single bevels. As in, what do people think of those?


----------



## Chef Niloc (Nov 12, 2011)

I got one, it took me hours and hours to get it right but once I did the thing stayed sharp longer then any other knife, and it's sharpness can be maintained if you stay on top of it (diamond spray on glass or felt) It's almost completely stainless if not completely ( ive never noticed it stain). The biggest problem I had with the A- type is that it was a bit small for me. I used it for a year or so then got a Heiji and stopped using it. The Heiji is far from stainless. it staines easily a mater a fact, it just won't rust in front of your eyes. This is a problem with Heiji's single bevel SS knives as most of the stain resistant steel is removed from the back side. 
I put a A-type up for sale a few weeks ago just because I don't use it, it's still there if you want it.












As you can see I did all the hard work


----------



## tk59 (Nov 12, 2011)

Chef Niloc said:


> ...The Heiji is far from stainless. it staines easily a mater a fact, it just won't rust in front of your eyes. This is a problem with Heiji's single bevel SS knives as most of the stain resistant steel is removed from the back side...


I hadn't thought about how useful the semi-stainless would be for single bevel knives. I guess it would be more useful to just go with stainless for those if you are afraid of rust?


----------



## ecchef (Nov 12, 2011)

Thanks, Colin. Too many yanagiba already. 
I'm thinking about an Usuba, and this climate is murder on straight carbon.


----------



## Dave Martell (Nov 12, 2011)

Aritsugu single bevels come without an edge at all. They can be a tremendous amount of work to set up initially.


----------



## Dave Martell (Nov 12, 2011)

BTW, I'm happy to see the A-type gyuto craze die away. That knife caused almost as many problems for people as Moritakas do.


----------



## welshstar (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave

Whats your thoughts on the Heiji's that seem to be very popular right now

Alan


----------



## Dave Martell (Nov 12, 2011)

welshstar said:


> Dave
> 
> Whats your thoughts on the Heiji's that seem to be very popular right now
> 
> Alan




I can't say that I've handled many if any, can't recall a problem anyway.


----------



## Citizen Snips (Nov 13, 2011)

thanks for all the info. i still am considering the a-type along with a few others

a few more points for this purchase include my lack of desire to buy a clad knife again (nothing against mizuno or hiromoto but i just dont care for clad anymore) and the cost. i dont want to break the bank here. i want something like a backup gyuto that will be able to take a beating.


----------



## Sarge (Nov 13, 2011)

If that is your criteria I really think you should look at yoshihiro. Its not a laser but won't need massive thinning either to perform really well and it should handle just about anything.


----------



## Citizen Snips (Nov 13, 2011)

Sarge said:


> If that is your criteria I really think you should look at yoshihiro. Its not a laser but won't need massive thinning either to perform really well and it should handle just about anything.



i am not really looking for another laser so that is one of the points that makes me have some interest in the yoshihiro. i dont mind a little work but from what everyone has said about the a-type the last few years is that when you put the time into it, it will be a wonderful knife. i dont mind putting in time, but i also dont want to put in the time if it is not going to be what im looking for 

also in regards to the heiji and watanabe, i have been thinking about clad knives as being the better choice for what i am looking for. really, i have been steering away from the clad knives after owning the hiromoto for 3+ years and although i do recommend that knife to people for a lot of reasons, its just not really what im looking for at the moment. the biggest problem with these two makers is the knives im probably going to look into are going to be a little more on the expensive side. 

anyone know where to learn more about watanabe or suggestions from those who may own one??


----------



## JohnnyChance (Nov 13, 2011)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?3632-Devin-Thomas-ITK-270mm-Wa-Gyuto-AEB-L-350.00

I know you wanted a 240...and it might be over your budget...but at least you wouldn't have to wait and maybe get one when a few new ones come up for sale.


----------



## rhygin (Nov 14, 2011)

I'm sure lots of people on the forum either have Watanabes now or have owned one in the past. My own thoughts are that they're great knives, even if they aren't a current fad. Traditional clad construction, with pretty reactive (at first cladding), fairly robust, blade heavy, with a generous curve that suits them to either rocking of push cutting. A lot of those qualities aren't celebrated right now, but they are well made and the blades are beautifully finished. Probably worth getting the octagon handle option in my opinion.

I'm sure if you wanted to learn more and started a topic many others would offer other thoughts.


----------



## SpikeC (Nov 14, 2011)

Already covered that ground, in spades.


----------

