# extra wabi sabi nakiris + grinder update.



## inferno (Mar 23, 2021)

so i decided to make a few nakiris. 15n20. hardened with propane outside my house. quenched in warm old motor oil/hydraulic oil. then 165C temper. should get me 62-63 hrc. 

these will be extra wabi sabi just like TF. since i love TF knives so much i decieded to with a similar naming scheme too. 
so these 3 will be called: sänka, dränka and kränka. 

haven't really decided yet on the final design on any of them.







then when i was grinding these i noticed how ****** my belts were for my lidl grinder. its a 75x457mm or 3x18 for you US guys. basically my bosch belts lost bite after maybe 1 minute. and then completely stopped working after maybe 3-4 minutes. so **** belts.

now in the US you can buy 3M belts made with cubitron abrasive. and i have tried very hard to find these here in europe. but these are not available and i'm not gonna import them. also these are 9-10 bucks a pop. 

so i searched all morning to see if there was something better than what i have in 75x457, preferably locally. AND there was!
*mirka hiolit xo. *mirka is one of the best abrasive brands. not as good as 3m but maybe #2-3. 


https://www.mirka.com/HIOLIT-XO-590/



now these belts cost me around 3€ a pop instead of the 1,50 a pop **** belts. and i could get them in a real store on my lunch.
highlights of these belts: 


Grain*Blue fired aluminium oxide*ColorMaroonBackingPolyester cloth P36-P80, X-weight cotton cloth P100-P240BondingResin over resinGrit rangeP36-P240CoatingSemi-open


*Suitable Materials* 

Hard woodMDF / HDF*Mild steel / carbon steel*Paint stripping / removalSoft / Resinous wood*Steel*Veneer*Cast iron*ChipboardComposites

my review of the belts: ****ing awesome!!
i was grinding full hard 15n20 for about 1h 15min on one single 40 grit belt, and it still has bite!! every 15 minutes or so i ran the tang into the belt with high pressure and then it started cutting like new again. 

these belts throw sparks when grinding 15n20 (which my **** belts dont do). and even after well over an hour on the same belt they still throw sparks! how awesome. 
i can highly recommed these if you are on a budget and want to use a 3x18 or 3x21 grinder for you knives. 

i'm gonna run my lidl grinder until it burns up! it was 30-40€ and i intend to extract everything from it.


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## tostadas (Mar 23, 2021)

Do you mount your belt vertically or horizontal when using the sander?


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## Bear (Mar 23, 2021)

I think I'd rather have Mirka than 3M, Indasa abrasives are my favorites but I don't think they produce belts.


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## inferno (Mar 23, 2021)

tostadas.

its upwards like a stone basically. i clamp the wooden plate thats clamped to the grinder on an L-iron i welded to a round bar of steel.

it looks like this in action. the belt is maybe 30cm below my eyes when grinding. so its very ergonomic in use.


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## inferno (Mar 23, 2021)

my setup is found in this thread.






low tech HT friendly steels?


is the second lower bulge to the right the bainite bulge?? i'm thinking bainite katanas, bainite :) the magic steel. bainite nakiris. :)




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## big_adventure (Mar 23, 2021)

Love the extra wabi-sabi.


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 23, 2021)

Less Wabi Sabi more Heath Robinson


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## inferno (Mar 23, 2021)

everybody loves wabi sabi.


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## daveb (Mar 23, 2021)

Looks like you may be violation of trademark law. Aren't those CCK's registered grind marks on the side of the blade?


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## Corradobrit1 (Mar 23, 2021)

daveb said:


> Looks like you may be violation of trademark law. Aren't those CCK's registered grind marks on the side of the blade?


If true, Mazaki better lawyer up


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## inferno (Mar 23, 2021)

i like to think of them like TF signature grind marks.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Mar 23, 2021)

inferno said:


> now in the US you can buy 3M belts made with cubitron abrasive.



I just started using some Cubitron II belts on my 2 x 72. So far I'm very impressed.


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## GorillaGrunt (Mar 23, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> If true, Mazaki better lawyer up


Mazaki is also the lawyers that represent all court cases involving knives, knife makers, smiths... he just puts on a different pocket watch, vest, and bow tie each time and nobody ever catches on. Even when he’s representing both sides


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## big_adventure (Mar 24, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Mazaki is also the lawyers that represent all court cases involving knives, knife makers, smiths... he just puts on a different pocket watch, vest, and bow tie each time and nobody ever catches on. Even when he’s representing both sides



It's a little known fact that all famous smiths are in fact actors, and Mazaki actually makes all the knives himself. This is why some lines are famous for their wabi-sabi - he just doesn't have the time to actually finish them.

There is a corollary of course, that, surprisingly nobody seems to sort out: there is actually only one Kono Kaiju and one Kato WH and one yo-handled Kitaeji 240. All the pictures and videos are just Mazaki changing clothes and posting them.


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## GorillaGrunt (Mar 24, 2021)

Is he selling it to himself to drive up the price?

I'm looking at buying a building and encountered a jackass who did just that


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## big_adventure (Mar 24, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Is he selling it to himself to drive up the price?
> 
> I'm looking at buying a building and encountered a jackass who did just that



Yeah, that's not totally uncommon in large scale capital investment. Imagine you have investors who want to see numbers. What better way to show them by showing that a sale went through for 20% over asking? The fact that you bought them is just opportunity cost, especially if you have other investors lined up to buy.


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## GorillaGrunt (Mar 24, 2021)

I get the idea behind it, but the guy is nevertheless a jackass outside of the wheeler-dealing too


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## big_adventure (Mar 24, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> I get the idea behind it, but the guy is nevertheless a jackass outside of the wheeler-dealing too



Well, someone who is that much of a jackass _in _the wheeler-dealer part is almost certainly a jackass out of it too. Surprise level approaching 0.


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## gregfisk (Mar 24, 2021)

If the company you’re getting your new belts from sells ceramic belts you will be miles ahead. Cubitron belts are ceramic belts as well.


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## inferno (Mar 27, 2021)

gregfisk said:


> If the company you’re getting your new belts from sells ceramic belts you will be miles ahead. Cubitron belts are ceramic belts as well.



i dont think mirka makes any 3x18 belts with "ceramic" abrasive. the blue fired alox is a quite premium material imo. 

we run green norton r929 2x72 belts at work. supposed to be a premium ceramic abrasive. and to be honest these kinda suck. they lose bite quite fast. 

in the US you can get 3x18 belts with cubitron abrasive. but these are not sold here. 


https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Classic-Power-Tool-Sanding-Belts/?N=5002385+3289891739&rt=rud




https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Premium-Power-Tool-Sanding-Belts/?N=5002385+3293948883&rt=rud



i have purple cubitron sheets and god damn these are good. also i use cubitron cutoff discs and flapdiscs daily at work so i know how good this stuff is.

the belts i have right now seems to be as good as its gonna get for me here. sure i'd love some cubitrons or norton blaze but its impossible to find here.


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## gregfisk (Mar 28, 2021)

Someone on here said that you can get Red Label belts in the EU. I use their ceramic belts on my 2x72 and on my 6x48. They work very similar to Cubitron and cost much less. Not sure if they make the size you need but you may want to take a look.


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## coxhaus (Jul 2, 2021)

I have a couple of Bosch radial sanders and I agree the 3M discs are better than the Bosch discs. I live in the US so no problem finding 3M. I have one belt sander and I don't use that many belts to worry about it but 3M would be mu choice. I forget whom I am buying for flat sand paper I would have to go look. I use a lot of wet or dry for my metal projects lately.


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## NO ChoP! (Jul 3, 2021)

Bosch makes pretty decent hand tools, but things like saw blades, drill bits and belts are crap! They'll work for someone doing a singular project just fine, which is probably most consumers making the purchase at the local hardware store, but for me, who uses a 3/8" bit 1000 times, longevity is vitally important.


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## coxhaus (Jul 4, 2021)

What brand of bits do you use? I have a drill press and I have been buying cheap ones and throwing them away.


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## TB_London (Jul 4, 2021)

Bnd abrasives can make most belt sizes out of most abrasives, worth a call if you’re serious about getting cubitron or other 3m in Europe.


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## gregfisk (Jul 4, 2021)

coxhaus said:


> What brand of bits do you use? I have a drill press and I have been buying cheap ones and throwing them away.


If you want to save money and who doesn’t? Check out Banggood out of China. You can get very good cobalt drill bits for a fraction of the cost in the US. They are metric so if that’s not your thing you’re out of luck but I have been extremely happy with the cobalt bits I have purchased.


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