# Sharpening crappy knives



## Southpaw (Apr 19, 2021)

I need help... I’ve started sharpening knives for a few cooks around my area... but this one cool gave me THE crappiest knives I’ve ever sharpened.

ive brought your standard Chicago Cutlery up to a pretty respectable edge on the stones, but these are just killing me. Really crappy paper test, won’t go through magazine or newspaper.

I figure it should only need a 1k treatment, should I try lowering my edge?

anyone run into a really low ceiling on a crap knife?


----------



## Southpaw (Apr 19, 2021)

Btw this is her santoku...


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Apr 19, 2021)

It may not really be sharpenable. Some of those truly crappy knives aren't properly tempered.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Apr 19, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> Btw this is her santoku...View attachment 123488



Me? I'd give that back to her and give her this link:





__





Forschner Fibrox 8 in. Chef Knife | knifemerchant.com


Stamped high carbon steel blade with a Fibrox handle. This Chefs knife is great to have for everything in the kitchen, from cutting meat, vegetables and fruit.



www.knifemerchant.com


----------



## Rangen (Apr 19, 2021)

My rules for sharpening crappy knives:

Always use diamond.
Always assume there is still a burr hanging on, unless otherwise proven.

Wait. What is that? Is it some sort of souvenir knife sold at theaters where Twilight was shown?


----------



## M1k3 (Apr 19, 2021)

Norton Crystolon. If in bad shape coarse > fine > strop on cardboard or whatever. If not so bad just the fine one and strop.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Apr 19, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Norton Crystolon. If in bad shape coarse > fine > strop on cardboard or whatever. If not so bad just the fine one and strop.



100% agree on the Crystolon.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Apr 19, 2021)

I have some success using JNS 300 on my crappy knives.

It is not pretty when these blades cut a sheet of paper, but at least they work better on food.


----------



## M1k3 (Apr 19, 2021)

I've had ok results with Shapton Pro 120 (freshly resurfaced) > Shapton Glass 500.


----------



## Up_dog128 (Apr 19, 2021)

Dude, she's gonna be so stoked with what you've done to that blade! Did you do that all with finger nail polish?
Maybe you should stop sharpening and get a job in a high end nail salon.

But for real, lately I've been doing crap knives on my Atoma 400, then a quick finish up & deburring on an SG 2k. Sometimes these poopoo knives really need a few edge leading strops to help pull that floppy burr off


----------



## Southpaw (Apr 20, 2021)

Up_dog128 said:


> Dude, she's gonna be so stoked with what you've done to that blade! Did you do that all with finger nail polish?
> Maybe you should stop sharpening and get a job in a high end nail salon.
> 
> But for real, lately I've been doing crap knives on my Atoma 400, then a quick finish up & deburring on an SG 2k. Sometimes these poopoo knives really need a few edge leading strops to help pull that floppy burr off


Dude when I opened her roll I was speechless...

they can move through product, but maybe you’re right, take it to the damage stones...


----------



## tostadas (Apr 20, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> Dude when I opened her roll I was speechless...
> 
> they can move through product, but maybe you’re right, take it to the damage stones...


I'd like to see the rest of the roll


----------



## Southpaw (Apr 20, 2021)

tostadas said:


> I'd like to see the rest of the roll


Lol okay gimme a sec


----------



## IsoJ (Apr 20, 2021)

I've had decent success with coarse sandpaper followed by Sharon glass 320 and stropped with cardboard


----------



## Southpaw (Apr 20, 2021)

@tostadas


----------



## Michi (Apr 20, 2021)

Oh, those knives are sooo pretty!


----------



## Southpaw (Apr 20, 2021)

IsoJ said:


> I've had decent success with coarse sandpaper followed by Sharon glass 320 and stropped with cardboard


So people keep saying strop on cardboard... why is that? Like why cardboard over leather?


----------



## tostadas (Apr 20, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> @tostadas
> View attachment 123537


I had to google the knife. The 6pc set is on amazon for like $60, and has 5star average rating with over 2k reviews. They look like trash, but very pretty trash.


----------



## M1k3 (Apr 20, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> @tostadas
> View attachment 123537


Marshall's?


----------



## Alder26 (Apr 20, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> @tostadas
> View attachment 123537


Milkyway Damascus forged by Carl Sagan


----------



## nwshull (Apr 20, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> @tostadas
> View attachment 123537


Edit: damnit someone got in a damascus joke before me.


----------



## cotedupy (Apr 20, 2021)

Alder26 said:


> Milkyway Damascus forged by Carl Sagan



Though the petty appears to be an example of a highly-coveted 'Olympus Mons' honyaki.


----------



## ian (Apr 20, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> So people keep saying strop on cardboard... why is that? Like why cardboard over leather?



It’s coarser. Leaves the edge with more bite.


----------



## cotedupy (Apr 20, 2021)

+1 for stropping on paper and cardboard. An old phone book / yellow pages is great if you've got any.


----------



## IsoJ (Apr 20, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> So people keep saying strop on cardboard... why is that? Like why cardboard over leather?


It is coarser than plain leather and I have better results with in on crap knives. I use leather too but only with high carbon when I want more refined edge and only 1-3 sweeps per side


----------



## Benuser (Apr 20, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> So people keep saying strop on cardboard... why is that? Like why cardboard over leather?


Cardboard contains clay IIRC. Anyway, it's abrasive. You may see traces of the steel on it after stropping.


----------



## Benuser (Apr 20, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> I need help... I’ve started sharpening knives for a few cooks around my area... but this one cool gave me THE crappiest knives I’ve ever sharpened.
> 
> ive brought your standard Chicago Cutlery up to a pretty respectable edge on the stones, but these are just killing me. Really crappy paper test, won’t go through magazine or newspaper.
> 
> ...


The worst I ever have sharpened was a Kai Wasabi with huge, clotting carbides. Go coarse. @IsoJ 's suggestion sounds good to me. Make sure to keep the Shapton wet and avoid glazing.


----------



## whirlwynds (Apr 20, 2021)

for cheap steel knives like this, I usually stop at the 45 micron range, which is about 400 grit max. any higher and i find you get diminishing returns

also you may have to increase angle. 15º can be too low. you may have to try 20º or 22-23º dps.


----------



## Mr.Wizard (Apr 20, 2021)

Really soft steel simply won't hold an edge. You can put on a low angle back bevel (relief bevel, secondary bevel) to let geometry do as much of the work as possible, then put on a small edge bevel at a very steep angle, like 60° inclusive. The small steep bevel resists rolling over, and if it is finished coarse it can still saw through things a bit.


----------



## Rangen (Apr 20, 2021)

BRB. Putting full-color images of the solar system on my Denkas.


----------



## Walla (Apr 20, 2021)

I'm in complete disbelief...I just can't stop looking at those knives....I had no idea what I've been missing...here I've been waisting my time with Japanese knives....

Take care

Jeff


----------



## stringer (Apr 21, 2021)

Now these things are following me all over the internet


----------



## Kawa (Apr 21, 2021)

Woooaah, that damascus breadknife!


----------



## matchplay18 (Apr 21, 2021)

Funny thing so you want to sharpen knives you watched some video's. You remember watching your Father and Grandfather sharpen knives on the old oil stone. To get some experience you ask friends family, neighbors. And you are totally ignorant to the amount of abuse you are going to exposed yourself to. You might have a guided systems or stones or diamond plates. The frustration of your splash or water stones continually loading up with cheap steel. The amount of time you put into each knife only to settle and tell yourself good enough. Question is are you a better knife sharpener if you can put a decent edge on a cheap knife I think so. Does it make you appreciate the better quality steel? I think so. It can be very frustrating for the novice or the experienced sharpener. And sometimes what should be an easy knife to sharpen it not. For me I bought a Chef Pro 15/20'' with the diamond strop only for the cheap knifes. Life it to short


----------



## GorillaGrunt (Apr 21, 2021)

My kit for the farmers market was Sigma 240, Chosera 400, red brick 1k, Rika 5k for deburring and if anyone showed up with a decent knife. I’d generally set the bevel on the coarse grit stones as 1) the edges were usually not just dull but damaged and 2) I’d assume that most of the edges on these sort of knives had been steeled back and forth repeatedly


----------



## ian (Apr 21, 2021)

Yea, that kind of progression is what I typically do too. Start on something super coarse (SG 120 or 220 or Sigma 240) for the damaged edges, then Cho 400, then usually Cho 800 unless the steel is total crap or it’s an inexpensive butcher knife. If it’s a nicer knife I might finish with a few strokes on a higher grit stone. I always finish by doing some edge leading strokes on whatever stone I finish on and stropping on cardboard. Often I repeat the last two steps, returning to stones, then to cardboard again.

Sometimes with tenacious burrs I’ll rip them off using a cork or something before the last two steps.


----------



## jwthaparc (Apr 21, 2021)

Southpaw said:


> Btw this is her santoku...View attachment 123488


I didn't read though this all the way, but on a truly crapy knife (which I sharp A LOT of at work [albeit pocket knives]) I recommend jumping from a coarsish stone to a polishing stone. So you get all the apexing done at somewhere around 300-500 grit then jump to maybe 4k-6k and deburr. 

The 2 biggest difficulties I run into with them are 1 it's very easy to round the apex of a cruddy knife, and 2 they are harder to deburr than normal.


----------



## Deadboxhero (Apr 21, 2021)

Low grit is best, low quality knives just don't have the microstructure to support a nice polished edge.


----------



## matchplay18 (Apr 22, 2021)

Great reply's real world situations. Has anybody tried using a Chorsera 800 with continuous lighter progressions on cheaper knives?? Once the string is gone and you have a little tooth call it a day.


----------



## ian (Apr 22, 2021)

matchplay18 said:


> Great reply's real world situations. Has anybody tried using a Chorsera 800 with continuous lighter progressions on cheaper knives?? Once the string is gone and you have a little tooth call it a day.



Yea, it's fine.


----------



## stringer (Apr 29, 2021)

I opened the knife drawer at my new non profit gig. Imagine my surprise. We're all set on knives.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Apr 29, 2021)

stringer said:


> I opened the knife drawer at my new non profit gig. Imagine my surprise. We're all set on knives.
> 
> View attachment 124900




That's all well and fine until you have to cut something other than a cucumber, bread, orange, red onion, or grapefruit. Then what???!!! Sheesh.


----------



## Rangen (Apr 29, 2021)

The grapefruit knife is smaller than the orange knife, and the cucumber knife is largest of all. Someone did not think this through properly.


----------



## esoo (Apr 29, 2021)

stringer said:


> I opened the knife drawer at my new non profit gig. Imagine my surprise. We're all set on knives.
> 
> View attachment 124900



I think I've seen this exact set at my cousin's.


----------



## Kawa (Apr 29, 2021)

stringer said:


> I opened the knife drawer at my new non profit gig. Imagine my surprise. We're all set on knives.
> 
> View attachment 124900



I feel a HHT challenge coming up...

Show us whos boss!


----------



## Boynutman (Apr 29, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> That's all well and fine until you have to cut something other than a cucumber, bread, orange, red onion, or grapefruit. Then what???!!! Sheesh.



Then there's always the tiger and peacock set...


----------



## stringer (Apr 29, 2021)

I got a new toy in the mail that will get those beauties sharp in a hurry. Baryonyx Mutt.


----------



## HumbleHomeCook (Apr 29, 2021)

Boynutman said:


> Then there's always the tiger and peacock set...



I lived on a cattle ranch in my teenage years. There were peacocks and peahens. They scream. I hated those damn things. So I'll take those on, you get started with the tiger.


----------



## Rangen (Apr 29, 2021)

stringer said:


> I got a new toy in the mail that will get those beauties sharp in a hurry. Baryonyx Mutt.



That is the stone these knives deserve. Although it would be tempting to pull out the Manticore and grind them into nonexistence.


----------



## jwthaparc (Apr 29, 2021)

matchplay18 said:


> Great reply's real world situations. Has anybody tried using a Chorsera 800 with continuous lighter progressions on cheaper knives?? Once the string is gone and you have a little tooth call it a day.


I used to finish nearly everything on my chosera 800, sometimes deburring on an aoto. It can work well. Depends how bad the steel is. If it's truly awful though ( no heat treat, possibly mild steel) now days I don't even bother with the chosera. I just try to get an apex with something low grit, then deburr with something high enough grit to not be able to remove the teeth left from the low grit. 

Steel that just isn't great i.e. 3cr13, stuff like that a chosera might be a fine edge for it.


----------



## jwthaparc (Apr 29, 2021)

stringer said:


> I got a new toy in the mail that will get those beauties sharp in a hurry. Baryonyx Mutt.
> 
> View attachment 124903


I got the manticore recently. I really like it, I wanted the mutt but they were out of it in full sized bench stones. Looks interesting to me.


----------



## cotedupy (Apr 30, 2021)

stringer said:


> Now these things are following me all over the internet
> 
> 
> View attachment 123704





stringer said:


> I opened the knife drawer at my new non profit gig. Imagine my surprise. We're all set on knives.
> 
> View attachment 124900



Feckin' hell! Online advertising algorithms have got pretty advanced, haven't they...


----------



## Kawa (Apr 30, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Feckin' hell! Online advertising algorithms have got pretty advanced, haven't they...




Hmm.. from what I see right now, maybe @stringer is part of the ad


----------



## cotedupy (Apr 30, 2021)

Kawa said:


> Hmm.. from what I see right now, maybe @stringer is part of the ad



You reckon @stringer 's an accomplice eh? These are dark times indeed.

Oh for the innocence of yore! When the apogee of Zuckerberg's ambition extended no further than sitting alone and having a wank over pictures of his classmates.


----------



## Pie (May 15, 2021)

I’ve been tinkering with my own edges and polishing for over a month, and lo and behold this this thing comes in for sharpening 







I said I’d never remove serrations again, but what the heck, let’s eat some steel. Proudly stamped “Made in China”.


----------



## VICTOR J CREAZZI (May 15, 2021)

Is the owner left handed?


----------



## jwthaparc (May 15, 2021)

Pie said:


> I’ve been tinkering with my own edges and polishing for over a month, and lo and behold this this thing comes in for sharpening View attachment 127195
> View attachment 127196
> 
> 
> I said I’d never remove serrations again, but what the heck, let’s eat some steel. Proudly stamped “Made in China”.


Oooo fun. What do you plan on using for that?


----------



## Pie (May 15, 2021)

Owner is right handed, basically just going to grind it to 50/50. Tried to explain grinds and bevels last time, was met with a blank stare.

Naniwa lobster for the heavy lifting and SG220 for cleanup, if all goes according to plan


----------



## jwthaparc (May 15, 2021)

Pie said:


> Owner is right handed, basically just going to grind it to 50/50. Tried to explain grinds and bevels last time, was met with a blank stare.
> 
> Naniwa lobster for the heavy lifting and SP220 for cleanup, if all goes according to plan


Yeah that's what happens when I try to explain toothy and polished edges.


----------



## dafox (May 15, 2021)

Good luck, check back in with your progress.


----------



## lemeneid (May 15, 2021)

Pretty certain, if you're offering to sharpen such knives for someone, they are either your mother or you want to boink them.


----------



## Pie (May 16, 2021)

Well the serration removal went quickly but getting this thing keen is tough. Got sloppy with the NP400 but it’s way the hell better than it used to be. It threw up a bunch of weird sticky swarf as well - crappy steel is much, much less fun than j-steel.


----------



## cotedupy (May 16, 2021)

Pie said:


> View attachment 127306
> View attachment 127307
> 
> 
> Well the serration removal went quickly but getting this thing keen is tough. Got sloppy with the NP400 but it’s way the hell better than it used to be. It threw up a bunch of weird sticky swarf as well - crappy steel is much, much less fun than j-steel.



Well it's already going to be a load better than when you got it I'm sure 

It _looks _like it could just do with a bit of thinning and evening up, which shouldn't take too long. I assume it was only serrated on one side originally...?


----------



## ian (May 16, 2021)

Yea, make sure to test cut some carrots with it before sending it back to the owner. Geometry behind the edge matters a ton, especially with crap knives where the apex will be dull in like a week.


----------



## Pie (May 16, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Well it's already going to be a load better than when you got it I'm sure
> 
> It _looks _like it could just do with a bit of thinning and evening up, which shouldn't take too long. I assume it was only serrated on one side originally...?



Yup just on one side, had to create the bevel on both sides as the original single bevel was like 45 degrees. Definitely could use some thinning but it’s got this weird hollow grind that I’m not going to bother with. I do plan on taking it a bit higher grit to clean it up but mostly for aesthetics and my own benefit


----------



## jwthaparc (May 16, 2021)

Pie said:


> Yup just on one side, had to create the bevel on both sides as the original single bevel was like 45 degrees. Definitely could use some thinning but it’s got this weird hollow grind that I’m not going to bother with. I do plan on taking it a bit higher grit to clean it up but mostly for aesthetics and my own benefit


You just thin granton knives like normal knives. You won't grind enough metal away to effect the hollows of it.


----------



## ian (May 16, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> You just thin granton knives like normal knives. You won't grind enough metal away to effect the hollows of it.



Think he might be talking about the concave grind near the edge, not the grantons. It should def be thinned tho.


----------



## jwthaparc (May 16, 2021)

ian said:


> Think he might be talking about the concave grind near the edge, not the grantons. It should def be thinned tho.


Oh ok, yeah that will be removed in no time if that's what he means.


----------



## Pie (May 16, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Oh ok, yeah that will be removed in no time if that's what he means.


Yeah the concave was my excuse. My rubber arm has been twisted, back to the 220.


----------



## jwthaparc (May 16, 2021)

Pie said:


> Yeah the concave was my excuse. My rubber arm has been twisted, back to the 220.


Yes. Good. My plan is all coming together *does the villain hand gesture thing*


----------



## Pie (May 16, 2021)

The path to madness has begun - thinning and polishing an at most $10 knife. SG220 surprisingly effective and smooth (for the grit) with excessive pressure. Upgrade over NT220 for sure.


----------



## Kawa (May 17, 2021)

Id like to see a choilshot to compare vs. post #62 when you are done.

Looking good!


----------



## jwthaparc (May 17, 2021)

Pie said:


> View attachment 127429
> 
> The path to madness has begun - thinning and polishing an at most $10 knife. SG220 surprisingly effective and smooth (for the grit) with excessive pressure. Upgrade over NT220 for sure.


Looks very nice so far.


----------



## Jovidah (May 18, 2021)

As hideous as some of those coated knives might actually look... did you test the food release? I've seen some cheapass teflon-coated knives and I can imagine that the food release on them might actually be decent; for all its flaws, teflon does actually work.


----------



## Pie (May 20, 2021)

Kawa said:


> Id like to see a choilshot to compare vs. post #62 when you are done.
> 
> Looking good!


Appreciate the positive comments guys 




Before, after serration removal (roughly post #62), after thinning. It’s not much thinner behind the edge unfortunately, but the wonky hollow is gone and the end result somewhat resembles a knife.

Next up, polishing!


----------



## Kawa (May 20, 2021)

Woah, looking good. Nice and straight


----------



## jwthaparc (May 20, 2021)

I think it looks much better.


----------



## Pie (May 23, 2021)

Pre and post thinning and polishing - polished on NP400 with no mud. Weird low grit mirror effect but quite smooth to the touch.


----------



## dafox (May 23, 2021)

Pie said:


> Pre and post thinning and polishing - polished on NP400 with no mud. Weird low grit mirror effect but quite smooth to the touch. View attachment 128178


Looks nice, what does a choil shot look like now?


----------



## Pie (May 23, 2021)

dafox said:


> Looks nice, what does a choil shot look like now?







Thanks!
Not mind blowing but better overall. Didn’t do much more after the “after thinning” stage a few posts ago.


----------



## Grayswandir (May 24, 2021)

Are you going to try and thin the knife down more, are are you close to being done?


----------



## Pie (May 24, 2021)

I’m done with this one, spent about 3 hours total on it and learned a few things. The steel is really gummy soft weirdness and not quite worth taking all the way down to proper thinness/geometry with how slow I am at thinning.


----------



## stringer (May 24, 2021)

Pie said:


> I’m done with this one, spent about 3 hours total on it and learned a few things. The steel is really gummy soft weirdness and not quite worth taking all the way down to proper thinness/geometry with how slow I am at thinning.



@Grayswandir 

The steel is also not hard enough to handle it. You'll end up with a weak foil edge that crumples


----------



## Mr.Wizard (May 30, 2021)

Too late, but I would have kept the serrations as they help saw through things with a steel that otherwise won't hold a edge. A heavy thinning from the back side only would have made it cut a lot better.


----------



## Pie (May 30, 2021)

Mr.Wizard said:


> Too late, but I would have kept the serrations as they help saw through things with a steel that otherwise won't hold a edge. A heavy thinning from the back side only would have made it cut a lot better.


Serrations removed was the request, I merely complied. Chances are it won’t hold the edge beyond a couple uses, but the idea was to have it not destroy the food it goes through. The good news is it survived 2 (gentle) preps with little loss in keenness.


----------



## jwthaparc (May 30, 2021)

Eh the serrations those kind of knives have are kinda useless imo


----------



## ian (May 30, 2021)

stringer said:


> @Grayswandir
> 
> The steel is also not hard enough to handle it. You'll end up with a weak foil edge that crumples



Idk, I feel like the way to make these crap knives perform decently is to have them be reasonably thin behind the edge, but then put a conservative bevel on it. The edge will dull immediately, but it'll still cut because of the reasonable geometry.


----------



## stringer (May 30, 2021)

ian said:


> Idk, I feel like the way to make these crap knives perform decently is to have them be reasonably thin behind the edge, but then put a conservative bevel on it. The edge will dull immediately, but it'll still cut because of the reasonable geometry.



You just gotta be careful. Cheap stamped blades start out pretty thin already. If you thin behind the edge too much, when you go to put your conservative bevel on it there won't be enough meat to support it.


----------



## ian (May 30, 2021)

Ya, that's often true. His choil shot doesn't look super thin tho.


----------



## Pie (May 31, 2021)

ian said:


> Ya, that's often true. His choil shot doesn't look super thin tho.



Most definitely not thin enough to worry about edge integrity. Being completely honest I got distracted by how strange the NP400 “polished” and said screw thinning, let’s play with the finish and decided not to put more effort in.

I agree, it’s not nearly thin enough to perform like I want my own knives to perform, but the end user in this case isn’t going to be able to tell. Laziness won this round.


----------



## Mr.Wizard (May 31, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Eh the serrations those kind of knives have are kinda useless imo



Not when someone is using a glass "cutting board" as seems more common that I wish were true. The points flatten but there is still enough tooth to break the skin and fibers of food. Users of this kind of knife and board may only bring one for sharpening when they have mashed the serrations completely flat along the edge and the "knife" no longer saws. If you sharpen off the serrations they bring it back in a week and say it doesn't cut. This after you got them to promise not to cut on glass/ceramic/quartz/granite/etc.


----------



## Bobby2shots (May 31, 2021)

A properly designed serrated knife, does not "SAW",,,, and you only need a bevel on one side of the blade. The back of the blade should be completely flat.

The serrations merely exist to provide proper spacing between the so-calleed "teeth". *The fewer serrations, the better.*

"sawing" implies a chisel cutting action, with a forward-facing cutting edge to each "tooth",,,, and that is simply not how proper serrated knives are designed. Each "tooth" is actually a single-bevel knife-edge.

When sharpening, you should never need to touch the 'gullets",,,, Just sharpen the same as you would with any single-bevel blade. The gullets aren't involved in actual cutting,,,only the peaks of the "teeth" are cutting,,,, while the gullets themselves, merely help to reduce drag, and to space the "peaks" of the teeth" properly.

Think of it this way; start out with a straight-edged single-bevel blade,,, then apply a cylindrical rotary grinding tool at the same angle, and same depth of cut, indexed every sayyyyy .333" along the entire edge. With a 10" blade for example,,, you'd end up with a 30 tooth serrated blade, with each tooth being identically spaced, and the same height.

I've got a very old Zwilling 10" bread knife,,, probably 40 years old, which my girlfriend picked up in a yard sale. There are virtually no gullets left because the teeth are so badly rounded over from wear. When you place the blade-edge vertically on a flat surface,,, the gullets are so shallow that barely allow light to pass through. The gullets are probably 1mm deep,,,, yet,,,, that knife still cuts like a charm.

A while back,,,America's Test Kitchen tested a dozen or so "10" Bread Knives", ranging fron a few $, to $100. (or so). Their top pick was a Mercer Millenia with 31 serrations. It literally "fell" through heavy-crusted artesenal breads, with no signs of crushing. They probably paid $20. as I recall. I've bought three of those that I've given away as gifts, and kept one for myself, and I can fully understand why it was their top pick.


----------



## Oshidashi (May 31, 2021)

I sympathize with those of us tasked with sharpening the horrific blades of acquaintances, especially when the steel is crap and the edge barely sharper than the spine. One such friend last week brought to me 4 such knives (thankfully without images of the universe). Welcoming the challenge, I toiled well over an hour doing my best, starting with a Suehiro Cerax #320 that ended up so badly dished that it is probably ruined. I eventually got her blades sharp beyond her expectations. But in the future, faced with such bad edges I will start with something like my #140 diamond flattening plate or some sandpaper or a file. Or a brick. I do appreciate everyone's tips in this thread.


----------



## coxhaus (May 31, 2021)

I use a Work Sharp knife sharpener. I think it will sharpen those knives. I can sharpen all my kitchen knives fairly quickly.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Jun 1, 2021)

Oshidashi said:


> I sympathize with those of us tasked with sharpening the horrific blades of acquaintances, especially when the steel is crap and the edge barely sharper than the spine. One such friend last week brought to me 4 such knives (thankfully without images of the universe). Welcoming the challenge, I toiled well over an hour doing my best, starting with a Suehiro Cerax #320 that ended up so badly dished that it is probably ruined. I eventually got her blades sharp beyond her expectations. But in the future, faced with such bad edges I will start with something like my #140 diamond flattening plate or some sandpaper or a file. Or a brick. I do appreciate everyone's tips in this thread.



I can sympathize with that. A while back, I offered (over the phone) to sharpen a batch of 16 knives for a friends' wife. Unknown to me at the time, she had bought these knives at a donation-center, and she told me the most expensive knife of the bunch, had cost her one dollar, and the others were between 25 cents to 50 cents a piece. Since I had not actually seen these knives before offering help, I was unaware of just what a mistake that blanket offer was to become. 

Some blades were actually split, and all of them were so badly rolled over at the edges that they looked like hundreds of tiny mushrooms along the entire length of the edges. I presume they had done a lot of bone chopping and cutting frozen foods, and that someone had hammered on the spines to get these knives to cut. Brand new, there was only one knife in the entire bunch that might have originally cost $30. The rest were probably selling for $10. or less when new. They should all have simply been thrown out, but, I did my best to salvage as much as I could.. After seeing what kind of damage I was doing to my stones, I finally decided to run them through my Chef's-Choice TriZor 3-stage diamond sharpener, and that did an "OK" job. At least, by the time I was done,,,roughly 6 hours later,,, they were all "paper-cutting" sharp, and she was completely thrilled with the performance. I was more relieved than 'thrilled".

Hard Lesson learned;,,,,examine the damned knives BEFORE blindly offering.


----------



## M1k3 (Jun 1, 2021)

Oshidashi said:


> I sympathize with those of us tasked with sharpening the horrific blades of acquaintances, especially when the steel is crap and the edge barely sharper than the spine. One such friend last week brought to me 4 such knives (thankfully without images of the universe). Welcoming the challenge, I toiled well over an hour doing my best, starting with a Suehiro Cerax #320 that ended up so badly dished that it is probably ruined. I eventually got her blades sharp beyond her expectations. But in the future, faced with such bad edges I will start with something like my #140 diamond flattening plate or some sandpaper or a file. Or a brick. I do appreciate everyone's tips in this thread.


Norton crystolon coarse and medium and Norton india fine.


----------



## Kawa (Jun 1, 2021)

You are all describing the average knife I sharpen.

'Normal' (not chefs/cooks) friends and family only have those kind of kitchen drawer knives. I have to sharpen a lot to get better right. I can't be picky.
As long as I get them sharpen then before, they are happy and I have practised: win win.
And ofcourse I do get better in sharpening this horrible soft knives with high angles, so I see progression over the line.

Good thing about this is, it's a joy to sharpen my own knives once in a while.



The few people that actually own a Wusthof or Zwilling are always kind of scared to let me sharpen them: 'but they are really expensive and are still sharp'.
By word I can't convince them.
When they come over to my place for a visit (I don't like that kind of family-in-law uncles and aunts kinda visits ) that's my chance. I can show them what my proper knives are, and how they cut. Most of the time it results in me being allowed to sharpen their 10 years neglected Wusthof 


Only one family member owns a Jknife, and she threats it like its a fork or spoon: in the dishwasher, in the drawer.... I got it to sharpen and didnt know what it was (the kanji's all dissapeared somehow). Untill I got it rediculously sharp for a cheap knife. I told her it was a very pleasent knife to sharpen. 'Yes, its a good knife. My uncle bought it in Japan when he visited'... Most be a real thing, sadly I will never know what it is.


----------



## natto (Jun 1, 2021)

Kawa said:


> Good thing about this is, it's a joy to sharpen my own knives once in a while.


Good point.


----------



## jwthaparc (Jun 2, 2021)

Idk I've never seen a glass cutting board in person.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Jun 2, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Norton crystolon coarse and medium and Norton india fine.




Yes, yes, yesssss,,,,,,,*EXCELLENT recommendation*,,,,,, silicon carbide,,, and they probably feel a helluva lot better than many diamond plates. Dirt cheap, great value, long life,,,, and indestructible. Ideal "repair" stones. Seems perfect for those badly rolled-over "friends and relatives" knives. I'm ordering their 3 stone set.


----------



## M1k3 (Jun 2, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Yes, yes, yesssss,,,,,,,*EXCELLENT recommendation*,,,,,, silicon carbide,,, and they probably feel a helluva lot better than many diamond plates. Dirt cheap, great value, long life,,,, and indestructible. Ideal "repair" stones. Seems perfect for those badly rolled-over "friends and relatives" knives. I'm ordering their 3 stone set.


Sharpening Supplies sells a house brand version also. XL Oil Stone

Granted the coarse one doesn't feel or sound very nice in use. But definitely gets the job done.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Jun 2, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Sharpening Supplies sells a house brand version also. XL Oil Stone
> 
> Granted the coarse one doesn't feel or sound very nice in use. But definitely gets the job done.



I've even used an axe file in extreme cases. Last time I did that, was with a Chinese cleaver with a split blade. I had to remove the entire edge of the blade, to a depth of roughly 1/4". I clamped the cleaver in a vise, then using smooth full-length strokes,,, heel to toe, I was able to get rid of the damage, while preserving the blade geometry. I then used the same file to rough-in a bevel,,, then restoring and refining a new edge with my water stones. Worked like a charm.


----------



## Mr.Wizard (Jun 2, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> A properly designed serrated knife, does not "SAW",,,, and you only need a bevel on one side of the blade.
> 
> The serrations merely exist to provide proper spacing between the so-calleed "teeth".



This I surely know. I used "saw" derisively. When abused the points get mashed flat and don't cut; instead they are forced into the item which is then torn by the gullets. This _is not how it is supposed to work_ but it does allow these abused knives to keep working _to a degree_ when their non-serrated counterparts would just slide hopelessly back and forth without much effect.



Oshidashi said:


> But in the future, faced with such bad edges I will start with something like my #140 diamond flattening plate or some sandpaper or a file. Or a brick.



A file is the way to go on soft steel if you don't have power tools. The downside is that you have to support blade so that it doesn't flex and it needs to be clamped down so you can use both hands on file.


----------



## Bobby2shots (Jun 2, 2021)

Mr.Wizard said:


> This I surely know. I used "saw" derisively. When abused the points get mashed flat and don't cut; instead they are forced into the item which is then torn by the gullets. This _is not how it is supposed to work_ but it does allow these abused knives to keep working _to a degree_ when their non-serrated counterparts would just slide hopelessly back and forth without much effect.



Hi Mr. Wizard;
I wasn't responding specifically to your post,,,, I was merely offering a counter-view to the all-too-often used reference that serrated knives are "sawing". This may be true with a badly abused and neglected blades, but not necessarily true with a properly designed blade that's been reasonably well cared for.. A well-designed serrated blade should be very easy to care for, and yet, they are generally maligned as being "all the same", and requiring wayyy too much maintenance, when in actuality, it should be one of the easiest blades to care for,,,,, "if" it's "properly designed" in the first place.


----------



## Pie (Jun 4, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> I can sympathize with that. A while back, I offered (over the phone) to sharpen a batch of 16 knives for a friends' wife. Unknown to me at the time, she had bought these knives at a donation-center, and she told me the most expensive knife of the bunch, had cost her one dollar, and the others were between 25 cents to 50 cents a piece. Since I had not actually seen these knives before offering help, I was unaware of just what a mistake that blanket offer was to become.
> 
> Some blades were actually split, and all of them were so badly rolled over at the edges that they looked like hundreds of tiny mushrooms along the entire length of the edges. I presume they had done a lot of bone chopping and cutting frozen foods, and that someone had hammered on the spines to get these knives to cut. Brand new, there was only one knife in the entire bunch that might have originally cost $30. The rest were probably selling for $10. or less when new. They should all have simply been thrown out, but, I did my best to salvage as much as I could.. After seeing what kind of damage I was doing to my stones, I finally decided to run them through my Chef's-Choice TriZor 3-stage diamond sharpener, and that did an "OK" job. At least, by the time I was done,,,roughly 6 hours later,,, they were all "paper-cutting" sharp, and she was completely thrilled with the performance. I was more relieved than 'thrilled".
> 
> Hard Lesson learned;,,,,examine the damned knives BEFORE blindly offering.


New batch of crappy knives coming in blind this weekend!


----------



## Bobby2shots (Jun 5, 2021)

Pie said:


> New batch of crappy knives coming in blind this weekend!



I'll be praying for ya. Have you got an axe file???


----------



## Marcelo Amaral (Jun 5, 2021)

I've got this one from my father-in-law and i was surprised how difficult it was to thin and sharpen.
I asked him if he would exchange this knife for a better one and he was glad to make the trade.
I was using basically JNS300 with no good results, so it was the excuse i was looking for to order a Shapton Pro 120 that's on its way.
It has become my standard to judge low grit stones on crappy knives.


----------



## Pie (Jun 5, 2021)

Let’s get it, no serrations this time! Plenty of belly to practice on and no serious repairs. I’m loving the cheap amakusa -> binsui combo, toothy as all hell.


----------



## jwthaparc (Jun 9, 2021)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> View attachment 130195
> 
> 
> I've got this one from my father-in-law and i was surprised how difficult it was to thin and sharpen.
> ...


The shapton should do well on it. Just whatever you do don't lap it with an atoma 140, you need low grit sic powder. An atoma with completely glaze the surface, and it will act like a stone of a much higher grit.


----------



## jwthaparc (Jun 9, 2021)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> View attachment 130195
> 
> 
> I've got this one from my father-in-law and i was surprised how difficult it was to thin and sharpen.
> ...


Also if the shapton doesn't cut it you can always order a bryxco manticore. It's a 60 grit sic waterstone.


----------



## Benuser (Jun 9, 2021)

This is what I use with coarse stones to spare the Atoma. 





Glass Polish Nr. 60 Polierschwamm mit Diamantbeschichtung, zum Abschleifen und Polieren von Oberflächen und von scharfen Kanten geeignet: Amazon.de: Auto


Kaufen Sie Glass Polish Nr. 60 Polierschwamm mit Diamantbeschichtung, zum Abschleifen und Polieren von Oberflächen und von scharfen Kanten geeignet im Auto & Motorrad-Shop auf Amazon.de. Große Auswahl und Gratis Lieferung durch Amazon ab 29€.



www.amazon.de


----------



## Jovidah (Jun 9, 2021)

Do you mind illustrating how exactly you use that (from a biomechanical perspective)? Looks like an interesting and affordable solution...


----------



## Benuser (Jun 9, 2021)

You just scrub the surface. The problem I've got with coarse Shaptons was above all they became far too smooth, think a 220 stone eventually delivering a 800 edge.


----------



## Jovidah (Jun 9, 2021)

Aah so you just use them like a normal small sharpening stone. I thought maybe you'd somehow clamp the knife and freehand the pad or something.


----------



## Benuser (Jun 9, 2021)

No, I use it so scrub the surface of a coarse Shapton, to get it rough again. Not going to spend my Atoma on a 120 or 240 grit stone.


----------



## Jovidah (Jun 9, 2021)

Aaah.... I actually thought you were just using those pads to thin your knife. Who knows maybe it works? They're cheap enough that it's less of an issue if they die.


----------



## M1k3 (Jun 15, 2021)

Here's my quickish and dirtyish way to sharpening crappy knives.


----------

