# Suita Showdown



## tgfencer (Mar 26, 2017)

Suita Showdown

Hey folks, so I've been meaning to do a comparison of the many suitas I have for quite some time. There have been some arrivals and departures since I first planned this, but at the moment I have ten suitas: 7 ohira, 1 okudo, and 2 mystery suitas. My original plans were to be super thorough by comparing multiple blades and different steels on each stone, much like a huge version of one of Smashmasta's or Badgertooth's reviews. After all, some stones sing with stainless and fall flat on certain carbons and vis versa, etc, etc...Unfortunately that ideal plan had to give way to a more time-efficient test or this probably would never have happened. Life is busy. I tried to stay brief and I'm sure I've forgotten a few things here and there, but below are my general impressions of each suita. At the end I give some final ramblings and rank the suitas on a few criteria. Hope you enjoy it!

The Knife: 
I have a laminated carbon scandi-ground blade (1095 I believe, but cant be 100%) that I use much in the same way some use kanna blades when testing natural stones. Its a little softer than kitchen knives at 59-60 HRC, but I've found its generally a good indication of how stones will perform on the harder steels of Japanese knives.


The Cast:




(Please ignore the background clutter and that annoying light. Still unpacking after the move and this farmhouse built in the 1920's needs some TLC.)






The Fuel: Some say don't drink and sharpen. Usually I would agree, but I'm not sharpening for edge performance so...





The Stones:

#1 Watanabe Ohira Suita: The earliest suita I purchased that is still in my possession, its remains one of my go-to stones. Its among the fastest of the ohira suitas, quick to slurry with pretty much every steel. It has almost buttery feedback and is softer than many of my other suitas. Sharpening with it is relatively quiet and smooth. Think less steel grating on stone and more steel rubbing on leather. Approx: Lvl 3.5/4








#2 'White' Ohira Suita: Definitely the hardest feeling suita I have but also one of the most beautiful. It cuts more slowly than the rest and benefits from use of a nagura. I didnt use one in this test and you can see the slurry is a bit on the weak side. Once a good slurry is generated however, its works more quickly and can leave an almost mirror polish. Feedback is pretty good, but there is a hint of a glassy undertone to it, though not to the extent of a razor stone. Not the most forgiving of suitas, but very rewarding when used correctly. Approx: Lvl 4.5








#3 'Long' Ohira Suita: A quintessential ohira suita with nice renge throughout the profile. The archetypal ohira with all the characteristics that make these stones so sought after. I have the sneaky, perhaps unfounded, suspicion that this suita and #4 below might actually be two pieces cut from the same stone block. They behave extremely similar when sharpening, have similar compositions, and were bought from the same source. This suita is quick to develop a slurry and leaves a lovely clear finish, cloudy to slightly mirror depending on how long you work on it. Feedback is excellent, much more forgiving than #2 but slightly less responsive than #1. Approx: Lvl 4








#4 'Fat' Ohira Suita: Nearly identical in form and function to #3 in my experiences. Aesthetically, this suita has more pronounced renge on the surface than #3, though less obvious renge along the sides. Approx: Lvl 4











#5 Umegahata Renge Suita: An interesting stone, mine unknown. Probably the next hardest after #2 and #8, it takes a bit time to develop a slurry. I would not call it slow, but its not super fast either. A nagura would speed up the process, but certainly isn't necessary and I probably wouldnt find a need to use one unless I was in a rush. Sharpening is a joy once the slurry is formed. Feedback is good, perhaps a touch less responsive than #3 & 4 above, but still well within what I'd consider the average range for all the suitas I've used. Finish is very close to mirror. Approx: Lvl 4/4.5











#6 Ohira Renge Suita: Lots of purple renge in this one. Attractive when dry, it becomes super beautiful when wet. A straight forward ohira suita, its very enjoyable to use. Develops a nice black slurry, though I stopped a bit short of getting a really great one going in the picture below. Feedback is nice, very similar to #3 & 4 above and also about the same hardness. Approx: Lvl 4











#7 Ohira Tenjou Suita: Relatively new to me, I'm a bit undecided on this oddball of a suita. Its an unusual color, mostly a blueish grey reminiscent of some uchimugori stones. This was only my 2nd use of this suita and perhaps my water control was poor, but I had difficulty producing a good slurry on this stone. Part of that could be down to the greyish color of the slurry and the stone simply making it harder to see, yet I think I missed a beat somewhere along the line. Its feels quite soft, but it didn't seem to cut as fast as I expected it would. Maybe its more of a polisher than a cutter. I will definitely have to go back and revisit this stone with other knives and more focus on water control. I suspect user error on my part rather than under-performance of the stone. (Also a bit bummed out by the crack.) Approx: Lvl 3. 











#8 Ao Ohira Suita: I have a bit of a love affair with this suita, from the beautiful black renge I find reminiscent of water color painting to the speed at which its cuts any and all steels. I actually tried to sell this a while back for whatever idiotic reason and I am a happy man that no one capitalized on my mistake! This stone is fairly hard, but it masks the hardness with feedback that really is fantastic, not at all glassy or dull like one might suspect. And boy does it cut quickly! As for the finish...mirror, mirror on the wall, which ohira suita leaves the most mirrored finish of them all? This one. Approx: Lvl 4.5








#9 Unknown Suita (Okudo?): I don't the mine this stone came from, but my personal suspicion is that it may very well be an okudo. This is due to its cutting speed and the formation of the side which reminds me most strongly of many okudo I have seen and used. However, I am no expert so I could very well be wrong. It also has a lovely purple pattern, almost suminagashi-esque. As for the stone itself, I took a bit of a gamble when I bought it, not knowing how prominent the large su holes would be, but while one or two can be felt a bit during sharpening, I have yet to notice evidence of them affecting the edge. It cuts very quickly indeed, swiftly producing slurry. Its a relatively hard stone, but with excellent feedback and good speed. Finish is light fog. Approx: Lvl 4 











#10 Okudo Suita: There is a reason okudo suita are often called the king of suitas. In fact, I might even go so far as to say I prefer them in some ways to ohiras. The sheer speed at which they cut and develop black slurry I find very satisfying and makes sharpening seem a breeze. This okudo pretty much fits the billing in every way. Definitely on the softer side of the suitas tested, it has pleasantly smooth feedback and leaves a nice finish, much cloudier than most of the suitas I tested here. Approx: Lvl 3












Conclusions: I did this comparison in part because I was curious how much difference there could possibly be in my suita stones, especially all the ohiras. I suspected there wouldn't be a great deal between them to really make one stand out from the others. In many ways that suspicion was correct, they all acted roughly the same in the sense that they feel very much related to one another and in the same range and class of whetstone, pre-finisher to finisher. Surprise, surprise, they can all sharpen a knife. What differentiates them is in the aesthetics and feel during use. I think most jnats users are drawn to one stone over another by its intrinsic characteristics such as feedback, hardness, speed, and looks. When one or more of those factors jives with the personal preferences of the sharpener, whether they are aware of those preferences of not, that is where the line of good vs bad, enjoyment vs indifference, sell vs keep, etc is drawn.

For instance, if I were to try to simplify things into a list of importance, I would personally find that I favor faster cutting speed above all else. After that, I rank feedback as second in importance as I find this factor plays a big part in my enjoyment of using a stone. My third criteria would be aesthetics because, although it is not a performance factor, if I'm going to spend money on jnats when a synthetic would otherwise do the job for much cheaper, I want something that rewards that expenditure and is visually appealing. Next up on the list would be hardness, which I tend to find less important to me, as long as I find the cutting speed and feedback are acceptable. Many users would probably also include the level/type of finish as a criteria and rate it highly important. However, as I only rarely sharpen for aesthetics since most of my knives are users, I don't find it matters as much to me. I have all my bases covered in that regard should I wish produce a certain finish, so I now mostly just focus on what pleases me. Just a final note, all of the suitas above, in my experience, tended to leave relatively similar finishes in the foggy/cloudy merging into almost mirrored range.

My Top 5 (in no particular order):
#8 Ao Renge Suita
#1 Watanabe Ohira Suita
#4 Fat Ohira Suita
#3 Long Ohira Suita
#10 Okudo Suita

When you compare my Top 5 with the lists I give below, you'll probably be able to notice my personal preferences I mentioned in the paragraph above reflected in the attributes of my chosen stones.

I have ranked the suitas on Speed, Hardness, and Feedback by their corresponding number in the original list above. Please bear in mind that all of these factors are subjective to the user and I can guarantee you that each person here would probably rank them all slightly differently. Such is the joy and frustration of jnats!


Cutting Speed (Fast to Slow):
8 Ao Ohira Suita
10 Okudo Suita
9 Unknown Suita (Okudo?)
1 Watanabe Ohira Suita
3 'Long' Ohira Suita
4 'Fat' Ohira Suita
6 Ohira Renge Suita
7 Ohira Tenjou Suita
5 Umegahata Renge Suita
2 'White' Ohira Suita

Hardness (Soft to Hard):
10 Okudo Suita
1 Watanabe Ohira Suita
7 Ohira Tenjou Suita
3 'Long' Ohira Suita
4 'Fat' Ohira Suita
6 Ohira Renge Suita
5 Umegahata Renge Suita
9 Unknown Suita (Okudo?)
8 Ao Ohira Suita
2 'White' Ohira Suita

Feedback during Sharpening (Responsive to Unresponsive):
1 Watanabe Ohira Suita
10 Okudo Suita
7 Ohira Tenjou Suita
8 Ao Ohira Suita
3 'Long' Ohira Suita
4 'Fat' Ohira Suita
6 Ohira Renge Suita
9 Unknown Suita (Okudo?)
5 Umegahata Renge Suita
2 'White' Ohira Suita


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## Doug (Mar 26, 2017)

Impressive lineup! Beautiful stones. Thanks for the review.Great contribution to the Jnat knowledge base here. Lot's to digest.:thumbsup:


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## Matus (Mar 26, 2017)

This is way past cool. Just boost the urge to get a nice suita


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## dwalker (Mar 26, 2017)

Great review. I'm reading it for the 3rd time.


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## aboynamedsuita (Mar 26, 2017)

Good post, lots of interesting stones. I like your cat tower too [emoji76]




tgfencer said:


> My original plans were to be super thorough by comparing multiple blades and different steels on each stone, much like a huge version of one of Smashmasta's or Badgertooth's reviews. After all, some stones sing with stainless and fall flat on certain carbons and vis versa, etc, etc...Unfortunately that ideal plan had to give way to a more time-efficient test or this probably would never have happened. Life is busy.


This resonates with me, perhaps I need to stop being so particular and just review my stones


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## tgfencer (Mar 26, 2017)

Haha when the lady first moved back to the US she wanted to get cats. I told her not til she got a job. 24hrs after she got hired...2 cats.

Yes, I'm always hesitant to review stones, too. It's hard to toe the line between acknowledging one is not an expert yet also offering up solid opinions. The way I look at it, jnats are inherently elusive and personal objects. It's also a fact that others know way more than me or you on the subject as a whole, but it's difficult for anybody to know your stones except you. Once you get past the realization that people may disagree or have different experiences with their own stones, it becomes an interesting, if complex comparison of notes. 

As for thoroughness or lack thereof, well, there is never enough time to do everything you want to do. Gotta earn the money to afford this habit after all...


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## K813zra (Mar 26, 2017)

Thank you for posting this! I found it very insightful.


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## Badgertooth (Mar 28, 2017)

Magnificent review Todd. I love that it's a subjective account of why they resonate with you, that's why it resonated with me. After all, they're yours, so why shouldn't it be a personal account of why you like them. That's what I wanna read. Oh and if you ever get tired of that nasty sounding #10 you know who to call


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## Matus (Mar 28, 2017)

Todd, should the amount of stones become unbearable one day, you know we are here for your


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## krx927 (Mar 28, 2017)

Matus said:


> This is way past cool. Just boost the urge to get a nice suita



Maksim has a new batch of suitas on his webpage. Some real beauties, perhaps this on would be perfect for you:

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/ohira-range-suita-lv-3-a1236/

Pity that you would need to sell your left arm to buy it :bigeek:


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## tgfencer (Mar 28, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> Magnificent review Todd. I love that it's a subjective account of why they resonate with you, that's why it resonated with me. After all, they're yours, so why shouldn't it be a personal account of why you like them. That's what I wanna read. Oh and if you ever get tired of that nasty sounding #10 you know who to call



Thanks Otto, I enjoyed doing it. Pretty much everything is subjective with jnats so might as well embrace it!

And Matus, one of the reasons I pushed this comparison through is because I wanted to finally get it done before selling some stones after my move. Glad you enjoyed it.


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## Jacob_x (Mar 28, 2017)

Great stuff, thanks dude.


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## Smashmasta (Jun 8, 2017)

Awesome! This inspires me to get back into it! Well done, and thanks!


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## mikedtran (Jun 8, 2017)

This is an awesome thread! I had just 1 Okudo and 1 Ohira and I definitely found the Okudo much easier to use due to the softness and speed. I did enjoy the nuances and differences in using the Ohira as well though!


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## dwalker (Jun 8, 2017)

Tgfencer, i think i have the twin to your Watanabe suita #1. Great review!


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## tgfencer (Jun 8, 2017)

dwalker said:


> Tgfencer, i think i have the twin to your Watanabe suita #1. Great review!View attachment 35874



Ooh it does! We should unite to create one all powerful sumingashi suita.... By the way, how do you like yours?


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## dwalker (Jun 8, 2017)

tgfencer said:


> Ooh it does! We should unite to create one all powerful sumingashi suita.... By the way, how do you like yours?



The world is not ready for that level of awesomeness.


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## Badgertooth (Jun 9, 2017)

both renge colours and pink lapping slurry!


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## dwalker (Jun 9, 2017)

That's something I've never seen before.


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## aboynamedsuita (Jun 9, 2017)

dwalker said:


> Tgfencer, i think i have the twin to your Watanabe suita #1. Great review!





tgfencer said:


> Ooh it does! We should unite to create one all powerful sumingashi suita.... By the way, how do you like yours?



I think I have the 3rd Watanabe suminagashi suita


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## dwalker (Jun 9, 2017)

The trifecta!


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## tgfencer (Jun 12, 2017)

Ah and of course Otto and Tanner both have beautiful sumingashi suita as well. That one batch Shinichi had last year (?) I think was full of jaw droppers.


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## Krassi (Jun 12, 2017)

Yep he had pretty sick ones.. But still looks are just looks. i got also so many Suitas and they are pretty similar. Ok only the Ao Renge ones are super harder. But hey .. i buy stones by the looks  so that counts most for me.


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