# OT - I Hate Apple!



## BertMor (Jun 4, 2011)

I don't get why there are so many Apple lovers out there. Yeah their technology is pretty cool, one you accept the fact that they are going screw you big time. Like I can't change the iPhone battery???? Whats with that?

So my wife's iPhone died and they gave her a new one. Then the new one started just turning off in the middle of calls. The non-Genius people said her os was an old version and needed updating.

What they didn't tell me was that the update wiped the SIM card of all her contacts!!!! She had numbers on there from 10 years ago or more. And I can't figure out how to get them back. Updating and syncing and backing up with iTunes is like trying to hit a pinata blindfolded. It doesn't tell you what you are doing, where the files go or anything. :doublebanghead:

I HATE APPLE (but I Love the Beatles, I can't believe that Apple actually won the use of that name what is the world coming to!):rant:


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 4, 2011)

Bert,

You've never heard of backing up the data on your phone? What happens if you lose the phone?

By the way, Apple provides Mobile Me, which backs up and synchronizes data among iPhones, iPads and computers automatically. I never have to worry about losing data.

Just my 2 cents.

Rick


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## Andrew H (Jun 4, 2011)

Apple, in my experience, is a user friendly OS and company. 

Gotta hate their prices though.


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## FryBoy (Jun 4, 2011)

I ain't too fond of Micro$oft, either.


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## MadMel (Jun 4, 2011)

I was actually thinking of switching to an iPhone.. my samsung sucks...


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 4, 2011)

MadMel said:


> I was actually thinking of switching to an iPhone.. my samsung sucks...


 
The biggest issue with the iPhone is the reception with AT&T, so you may want to go with Verizon.

Where I'm at AT&T is OK, so that's the carrier I use.


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## BertMor (Jun 4, 2011)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Bert,
> 
> You've never heard of backing up the data on your phone? What happens if you lose the phone?
> 
> ...


 
Its my wife's phone, she doesn't know how to back up her computer let alone her phone. I will check the MobileMe, but its kinda late. As I understand it, the data it still really there just that its not accessed by the OS.

I've got a Samsung Captivate phone, and I think its fine, of course I hacked the phone and put on a XDA developers ROM.

As far as user friendly, I have always have had problems navigating and understanding Apple sw. Even going back to my ole IIc. Granted Microsoft aint no ray of sunshine, but they don't treat you like an ignoramus.

We are on AT&T and have been for ages. We have so many free minutes accrued we would take a bath switching. Plus we don't have any reception issues


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## so_sleepy (Jun 4, 2011)

At $100/yr, Mobile Me is not an option most people will consider.

Apple used to offer iSync for free, it would sync contacts wirelessly. The only phone is was incompatible with was the iphone.

The problem is apples business model is to capture you within their ecosystem. Itunes is the worst part of owning an iphone especially if you have to use the PC version. I have music I want to add to my phone but it is on the wrong PC and I don't want to take an hour with itunes to add a few songs.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 4, 2011)

so_sleepy said:


> At $100/yr, Mobile Me is not an option most people will consider.



You're already spending $70+ a month for service, Mobile Me adds $8.33 per month, and is, IMHO, worth it. If I add a contact to my phone, it is automatically added to to my wife's iPhone, my iPad and both our laptops. Not to mention the schedules and bookmarks also synchronize, and I get some cloud-based storage thrown in as well.



> Apple used to offer iSync for free, it would sync contacts wirelessly. The only phone is was incompatible with was the iphone.



Yep, you use iTunes for that, now. I'd like to be able to sync without having to use a cable, though.



> The problem is apples business model is to capture you within their ecosystem. Itunes is the worst part of owning an iphone especially if you have to use the PC version. I have music I want to add to my phone but it is on the wrong PC and I don't want to take an hour with itunes to add a few songs.


 
If your computers aren't networked, it shouldn't take an hour to copy a few files to a thumb drive and move them between computers. If they are, then share your iTunes libraries between computers. A song transfers in less than ten seconds.

As far as "capturing you within their ecosystem", well, I'd need to know specifically what you are alluding to. If you are complaining about the so-called "walled garden" of the App Store, that's a non-starter for me.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 4, 2011)

BertMor said:


> Its my wife's phone, she doesn't know how to back up her computer let alone her phone. I will check the MobileMe, but its kinda late. As I understand it, the data it still really there just that its not accessed by the OS.
> 
> I've got a Samsung Captivate phone, and I think its fine, of course I hacked the phone and put on a XDA developers ROM.
> 
> ...


 
Bert,

Before you do anything else, read this article. If your wife has been synching her iPhone with her computer, chances are the information may still be there are recoverable.

http://ipod.about.com/od/iphonetroubleshooting/ss/restore-iphone.htm

Rick


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## EdipisReks (Jun 4, 2011)

i love Apple. i've been using their products for years. i run technology at my department (everything from NMR machines to fluoroscopy to desktops) and i really wish i had the budget to have a department wide Mac roll out. well, to be honest, i wish i had the budget to buy 5 new computers of any make, but that's academia for you.


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## rockbox (Jun 4, 2011)

I like the iphone and ipad other than the fact that it has a crappy browser that doesn't support flash. I ambivalent about Macs. I hate itunes with a passion. What a piece of crap software. I bogs down the system and keeps trying to install a whole bunch of stuff I don't want like Safari during updates.


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## so_sleepy (Jun 4, 2011)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> You're already spending $70+ a month for service, Mobile Me adds $8.33 per month, and is, IMHO, worth it. If I add a contact to my phone, it is automatically added to to my wife's iPhone, my iPad and both our laptops. Not to mention the schedules and bookmarks also synchronize, and I get some cloud-based storage thrown in as well..



Apple's UI and integration are slick if you have an Apple household, but you can get contact/calendar/bookmark sync from Google or Yahoo for free.



Pensacola Tiger said:


> Yep, you use iTunes for that, now. I'd like to be able to sync without having to use a cable, though..



That is more or less my point about Apple being business-model driven. Wireless calandar/contacts sync was a standard feature of all smart phones when the iphone arrived, but it doesn't serve them any purpose. Itunes, despite being bloated and buggy, drives business to thier music and app stores. So, they very intentionally glued the sync piece into itunes. My Mom knows what iSync does, but she can't figure out the sync options in Itunes.



Pensacola Tiger said:


> If your computers aren't networked, it shouldn't take an hour to copy a few files to a thumb drive and move them between computers. If they are, then share your iTunes libraries between computers. A song transfers in less than ten seconds.



Nope, not talking about file transfer time. It takes an hour to sync and backup whether you are adding 1 song or 100 to a 32GB iphone. You would think they could perform an incremental sync and backup by now. I'm hoping they will add over the air updates to the OS, but I don't think they are feeling much pressure from Android.



Pensacola Tiger said:


> As far as "capturing you within their ecosystem", well, I'd need to know specifically what you are alluding to. If you are complaining about the so-called "walled garden" of the App Store, that's a non-starter for me.



There isn't anything wrong with the App Store, but it does look like they are about to drive Pandora and LastFM out with the new in-app subscription policy. That is just the sort of move you would expect Apple to make before launching their own music subscription service.

I could go on but I'm not trying to bash Apple. It just seems to me that some people cut them a lot of slack. If Microsoft were to make similar busines decisions or have a similarly dominant market position they would be viewed with more suspicion. I've had iphones since the 3G, but I aknowlege their flaws and limitations.


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## EdipisReks (Jun 4, 2011)

iTunes is completely different in OS X. the iPhone and the iPad have great browsers. it's not the browser that dictates whether the devices support flash. i hate flash, and i'm glad that sad sack piece of crap software isn't on either device.


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## so_sleepy (Jun 4, 2011)

EdipisReks said:


> iTunes is completely different in OS X. the iPhone and the iPad have great browsers. it's not the browser that dictates whether the devices support flash. i hate flash, and i'm glad that sad sack piece of crap software isn't on either device.


 
Haha, the ecosystem argument again. Why would Apple fix iTunes on the PC when the obvious solution is to have everyone buy a Mac? 

Web-based flash apps compete with the App store. It isn't religion, its business.


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## Eamon Burke (Jun 5, 2011)

Regardless of their business model or their software, they boast about their hardware like they are doing the world a favor by making phones and tablets and using "green" parts that make the world a better place. I work with guys from Taiwan that know people who work in factories where they are imprisoned, and treated like hostages, driving some to suicide...all because of Apple's highly profitable "intellectual property".

People should hate Apple for real reasons.


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## JohnnyChance (Jun 5, 2011)

Yeah, at the Foxconn dormitories where they manufacture parts for apple, they had to install nets above the ground floor to discourage jumpers.


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## Gator (Jun 5, 2011)

so_sleepy said:


> Haha, the ecosystem argument again.


A prison can be considered an ecosystem by the same token 



so_sleepy said:


> Why would Apple fix iTunes on the PC when the obvious solution is to have everyone buy a Mac?


Lemme get that straight, an excuse to produce a crappy software for any platform is to force people to the "right" platform, mac in this case? SJ always said, users have no clue what they really want, but I don't think so, do you?
And why is it obvious? To me it's obvious that the product (itunes) is crap... And if it's on purpose, to make me do something, then it's crystal clear to stay away from that company. For the record, or to be fair, itunes is the same POS on macs too. Don't have to look too far, any mac forum is full of complaints/issues about itunes.



so_sleepy said:


> It isn't religion, its business.


Theoretically it isn't, but practically, when my coworker seriously argues with me that even though on mac he can't resize window except from the lower right corner, or can't find anything in the file system(let alone copying file path), he's still somehow more productive on macs(I made him time same simple tasks on windows and macs, things were faster on win 7, but who cares...), or lots of people seriously believe macs are impervious to viruses(even though safari is one of the easiest to hack on hackercons), including those already infected, I tend to consider the possibility...


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## rockbox (Jun 5, 2011)

EdipisReks said:


> iTunes is completely different in OS X. the iPhone and the iPad have great browsers. it's not the browser that dictates whether the devices support flash. i hate flash, and i'm glad that sad sack piece of crap software isn't on either device.



You have really low standards as browsers go. I have had an ipad since it came out and love the form factor, but there are times when I want to chunk across the room because it won't render pages correctly including some on this site. 

And don't get me started on them pushing people to upgrade the software on their hardware only find out that the upgrade makes the device perform like crap and there is no way to downgrade back to a previous version.


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## BertMor (Jun 5, 2011)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Bert,
> 
> Before you do anything else, read this article. If your wife has been synching her iPhone with her computer, chances are the information may still be there are recoverable.
> 
> ...


 
I did this, but evidently the restore function is what created this probledm. I am deducing that the restored file was actually empty of data, and iTunes in its infinite wisdom decided no data is new data to replace all the goodies already there. And of course the first thing restore warns you of is that that its going to wipe your data and reset factory settings. 

That is not what I wanted to do. I just wanted back up my contacts. N o ability to do only that, and its buried somewhere but I don't know where. And it wiped my sim???? D&mn that is no place Apple should be going. 

iTunes is designed to funnel you to buy music, it is not good for maintaining your devices. One of my true pet peeves is that it tells you not to disconnect while it performs some actions, but no where does it have a nice cutge icon telling you it is busy at work, it appears like its frozen, inducing you to do something stupid like shake vigorously

OK my friend who is an engineer with Motorola said the data may be recoverable from my wife's previous iPhone. I sure hope so.


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## BertMor (Jun 5, 2011)

Does anybody know where the default file for the back ups are stored on the PC? If I could check that it might be possible for me to do something. Right now I have no clue where iTunes stores the backup or the filename....


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## sw2geeks (Jun 5, 2011)

Here is were it is located on a pc.

Windows XP:
C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\Application Data\Apple Computer\MobileSync\Backup

Windows 7 and Vista:
C:\Users\YOURUSERNAME\AppData\Roaming\Apple Computer\MobileSync\Backup

iTunes usually stores older backups along with the most current. You should be able to access all of them and be able to restore from previously saved backups. To do this open up iTunes and plug your phone in. Now right click the iPhone in iTunes and click Restore from Backup. You should have multiple backups to choose from in the pull down, and can restore back to any of those backups.


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## BertMor (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks I will try that. A friend who works for Motorola managed to get an older iPhone that my wife had and d/l much of the lost data from there. And that was the stuff that would be hard to get back, it was so old.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Jun 6, 2011)

So basically we all have a love/hate relationship with Apple. I'm on board.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 6, 2011)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> So basically we all have a love/hate relationship with Apple. I'm on board.


 
I've had a love/hate relationship with every computer/operating system I've ever worked with, from CP/M to OS X.


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## JohnnyChance (Jun 6, 2011)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> So basically we all have a love/hate relationship with Apple. I'm on board.


 
No love here.


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## Eamon Burke (Jun 7, 2011)

JohnnyChance said:


> No love here.


 
+1


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## moggi1964 (Jun 7, 2011)

Love/hate Apple and I love/hate Microsoft and I love/hate technology in general.

Not a fan of iTunes though I have to say it doesn't take more than a minute to synch my iPhone and I love the interface with Outlook - stops me forgetting stuff. These days I listen to more music on vinyl then I do on iTunes.

I just downloaded the Atomic Web Browser for my 3GS so we'll see how that works out. Didn't like Safari and couldn't get along with Opera Mini (though like Opera Desktop).

I buy what I think will work for me and have no brand loyalty. I have never changed to a Mac because the PC has always done what I needed it to do. If I needed something a Mac offered that a PC didn't (or wasn't as good at) I would get a Mac.

I don't see the point of an iPad but if it would send texts as my iPhone does I would get one because the font is so much larger so I could finally read incoming and outgoing texts without having to find my glasses


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## AUSSIE BURLS (Jun 7, 2011)

Hello/my pc died last week! That was my 4th one in 7 years. I just purchased a mac. I was wondering where the tower was - there is none. It's all in the screen. What happens when the screen gives?? So far I love my big mac . Marek


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## moggi1964 (Jun 7, 2011)

MAREKZ said:


> ........... What happens when the screen gives?? ......... Marek


 
I think I would have asked that BEFORE I plumped down a couple of grand :razz::razz::razz:


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## mainaman (Jun 7, 2011)

I am glad i never got on apple band wagon.
The only thing I might consider buying is the ipod touch but I am still very far away from it seeing how they do not even have custom equilizer and the sound quality is less than many other makers devices.


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## BertMor (Jun 8, 2011)

mainaman said:


> I am glad i never got on apple band wagon.
> The only thing I might consider buying is the ipod touch but I am still very far away from it seeing how they do not even have custom equilizer and the sound quality is less than many other makers devices.


 
I was in the Apple store yesterday, and the place looked like Xmas-time, packed. And not a single person who understood even the basics of technology. Everything is done by magic. Pitiful!


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## Michael Rader (Jun 8, 2011)

MAREKZ said:


> Hello/my pc died last week! That was my 4th one in 7 years. I just purchased a mac. I was wondering where the tower was - there is none. It's all in the screen. What happens when the screen gives?? So far I love my big mac . Marek



I was just thinking of getting an iMac myself, but I can get a similarly powered desktop for 1/3 the price if I went the pc route.  Is it worth it? I've never had any problems with any of my previous desktops or my current laptop. Aside from all the virus's aimed at Microsoft, is Apple really that good? 
-m


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## 99Limited (Jun 8, 2011)

Michael Rader said:


> ... is Apple really that good? -m



Is your Damascus knives worth what your charge for them? Well I voted with my pocket book and said yeah, because some things are worth what they cost. Thing is I've never been able to convince myself that Apple products are worth it.


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## FryBoy (Jun 8, 2011)

Michael Rader said:


> I was just thinking of getting an iMac myself, but I can get a similarly powered desktop for 1/3 the price if I went the pc route.  Is it worth it? I've never had any problems with any of my previous desktops or my current laptop. Aside from all the virus's aimed at Microsoft, is Apple really that good?
> -m


Yes, Apples good -- but so are many PCs. You do get what you pay for, but there's simply no need to spend the extra money on an Apple computer unless your main goal is to impress the other kids who think they're cool. Windows 7 is rock-solid, and it will run all of your old software and use your old data without any problem.


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## sw2geeks (Jun 9, 2011)

Bert, ever get your phone contacts back? I know on my Mac my phone numbers on my phone are also backed up in my contacts on my computer.


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## sw2geeks (Jun 9, 2011)

FryBoy said:


> Yes, Apples good -- but so are many PCs. You do get what you pay for, but there's simply no need to spend the extra money on an Apple computer unless your main goal is to impress the other kids who think they're cool. Windows 7 is rock-solid, and it will run all of your old software and use your old data without any problem.


 
Glad Windows 7 is work out for you, I have been using macs since 1986 with no problems. There really was no pc option for publishing back then. Once pc's caught up with the mac's I was already hooked. I don't think macs got it's cool factor until the iPod came out. So i guess i was using them before they would impress anyone. One thing that is brought up all the time by none Mac people is the price. Apples prices are very completive for similar pc hardware. Apples philosophy is all about user experience, so they really won't sell any hardware that will not run there software well, since they do both the hardware and the software. And there software is usually on the cutting edge. Other pc companies are mainly selling the boxes and go for a cheaper entry level computer with a weak video card and processor, knowing that a lot of software will have trouble running on it, but it is really not there problem since they don't make the software. So you will see an entry level pc start around $300 and an entry level Mac start out around $1,000. but if you look a the Mac specs and then match it on a pc the price is usually pretty close. I guess a lot of it also depends on what you use your pc for. A $300 pc is fine for word processing, but you would not want to play high end video games on it.

On the high end Mac Pros that I use they are a lot cheaper than dells with the same hardware. The last Mac I bought was 3 years ago and has dual quad processors (I do a lot of 3D work and need the horsepower). I tried configuring a Dell with the same hardware and they wanted triple the cost.


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## Potato42 (Jun 9, 2011)

MAREKZ said:


> Hello/my pc died last week! That was my 4th one in 7 years. I just purchased a mac. I was wondering where the tower was - there is none. It's all in the screen. What happens when the screen gives?? So far I love my big mac . Marek


 
Apple did have an issue with some iMacs a few years back with screens going bad. I have one of them. I don't regret the purchase. I bought used/refurbished though when it arrived everything was wrapped up and packaged like brand spankin' new. I paid about 1/3 less that way.

The screen didn't give problems until after a couple years. I deal with it using an external monitor, no big deal. My entire family has been using Macs as long as I can remember, and every one has performed wonderfully pretty much until they just got so outdated they were replaced. We're talking about over a dozen models in the last 20 years or so. The towers can be upgraded for a long time, the all in ones (like iMac) can be relegated to other uses. Somewhere we have an old school Mac plus that will still fire up, though with hard drive memory measured in MB, it's not the tool it once was. In my experience, Macs are very much overbuilt.

One thing that drives me nuts in the whole Mac vs PC comparison debates is software. I don't care how cheap your PC is, unless you buy extra software for it, you can't do squat out of the box. Apple provides a tremendous package with all their iStuff and you can actually get things done. True, professional programs are typically much more full featured and what I usually use myself, but often I like the user interface on the Mac better when comparing those very same programs (photoshop for example). For the record I *HATE* interfacing to my computer with itunes. I really, really wish I could plug my iphone in and see it like a removable device same as I would a camera card. Nope. I have learned the workarounds to deal with it.


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## BertMor (Jun 10, 2011)

Yeah Mac is just an overpriced PC now anyway. Same processor and chipsets.....And no one has come up with a new innovative OS in decades. Maybe with Intel's new 3d architecture somebody will start from scratch and forge ahead with new ideas.


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## Michael Rader (Jun 10, 2011)

Hmmm. Very interesting. Still on the fence, but luckily I'm in no hurry. 
-M


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## WildBoar (Jun 10, 2011)

I think what we all need is a nice damascus computer, with a custom wood operating system :wink:


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