# Gyuto Showdown



## JVoye (Nov 13, 2012)

In the market for a new Gyuto 240mm-focusing on performance in a professional kitchen
Candidates so far include-

JCK Carbonext 
Hiromoto AS
Kikuichi TKC
Konosuke HD

So many options...:scratchhead:

I'm targeting the semi-stainless/carbon line as I need great edge retention, a super sharp blade with some discoloration protection. Any thoughts? I believe all of these blades are either 60/40 or 70/30-at this point I don't have preference in this department. Thanks.


----------



## jayhay (Nov 13, 2012)

Cheap route, Carbonext and a good sharpen. More $ route, Hiromoto with Dave's performance package  That would be a real performer. And AS steel is stellar.


----------



## schanop (Nov 13, 2012)

Yoshikane SKD Kasami wa, or yo and yo from Maxim could be a good fit. Then there is Gesshin Heiji Semi Stainless from Jon at a higher budget.


----------



## ecchef (Nov 13, 2012)

jayhay said:


> Cheap route, Carbonext and a good sharpen. More $ route, Hiromoto with Dave's performance package  That would be a real performer. And AS steel is stellar.



+1


----------



## tk59 (Nov 13, 2012)

If you don't want to go the custom route, the best in class all arounder is the Gengetsu in semi-stainless, in my opinion. The grind is impeccable, the steel takes a great edge, it's tough and stays sharp a long time. I love the Heiji too, but I think that requires more care to get the most out of it. The CarboNEXT is the low budget choice. I think the HD steel seems to hold it's edge longer and sharpen up a little easier than the CN though. If you're looking at a HiroAS, I would rather go with a Gengetsu in white 2. I would wager that this would easily outperform the HiroAS in every useful category: keener and longer lasting edges. The semi-stainless version doesn't quite get as keen but the edge retention will hold its own with anything save Devin's swr.


----------



## WiscoNole (Nov 14, 2012)

I had a TKC and wasn't as impressed with its retention as some others have been. I also think there are much better options (thinner, solid steel) than the Hiromoto, especially since I have had problems with F&F with them. I'd go with the HD, or if you'll consider stainless, the Gesshin Ginga line is outstanding.


----------



## Duckfat (Nov 14, 2012)

I've had a JCK WA Kagayaki for years. It still amazes me when I use it considering the price point. I wouldn't hesitate at all to suggest the Carbonext from Koki. If your considering the Kono HD I'd also suggest looking at the Sakai Yusuke and certainly the Masamoto KS.

Dave


----------



## daddy yo yo (Nov 14, 2012)

i LLLOOOVVVEEE my konosuke hd, wouldn't want to trade it against anything else... it's a 270mm western gyuto, btw, and i was shocked at first as i had been using 210mm gyutos only. i still don't know which 240mm to go for, but the konosuke is still in the race. on the other side, i also consider geshin ginga or even smth fancier, such as a western shig which is a totally different price range... anyway, going off-topic here. the konosuke hd is scary sharp!!


----------



## franzb69 (Nov 14, 2012)

i'm aiming for the carbonext myself. and that hiromoto with dave's performance package will not disappoint. after the carbonext i'm getting the hiromoto also.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Nov 15, 2012)

The Kono Hd is a good blade for production work.The Sakai Yusuke knives on blueway are fine tools at a reasonable but not cheap price point.Someone here wrote a review on the Sakai Swedish SS Hrc. 61 Thick & flat profile.(not really that thick 2.8 at spine).

Gesshin Ginga said to be good line knife,think JKI is out of stock on the Wa- 240,it comes wt. a Saya as well,or western handle,give him a call.


----------



## bieniek (Nov 15, 2012)

Are you oriented what thickness, height, weight, balance point you want, what handle style? 

If you think about that, it might be little easier to pick one blade up. 
Whichever shop would you like to choose from the vendors we have here, on the forums, and whatever brand you will get a nice blade anyway. 

And the Hiromoto is for sure not the best choice. Its just kind of mediocre. I personally dont enjoy the steel or the grind, it is a workhorse.


----------



## jayhay (Nov 15, 2012)

I'd still go with the Hiromoto and the performance package. You won't be anything but elated with the blade.


----------



## Notaskinnychef (Nov 15, 2012)

That performance package really does seem to elevate that blade


----------



## Notaskinnychef (Nov 16, 2012)

KAGAYAKI is on sale atm, and with their ES (extra sharpness) package its only 140 bucks. roughly 50 bucks off. I am also looking for a good first knife, home cook, pinch grip most of the time, novice sharpening, would this be a good deal while the sale is on?

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html


----------



## scotchef38 (Nov 17, 2012)

Really like the carbonext but I was disappointed with the extra sharp service.If your sharpening skills are decent,sharpen it yourself.


----------



## Notaskinnychef (Nov 17, 2012)

well my sharpening skills arent too good, at least not yet, and with it only being 12 dollars to have them do, i'd assume they will do a better job than i would lol


----------



## Notaskinnychef (Nov 17, 2012)

"posting again since the edit button seems to have disappeared while I'm on my phone" 

I am torn on going with the 240 or 210. I've never used a 240 and I've always been happy with the 8 inches knives I've used at home before. Not a huge price difference but I don't know what I'd prefer. My block is a 20" square so i can manage either size.


----------



## Notaskinnychef (Nov 17, 2012)

Or. Two other options here, anyone's opinion on these two? 

www.sliceandsear.com/moritaka-gyutou-chef-knife-9-5-240mm/

http://www.knifewear.com/knife-family.asp?family=18

Two other carbon based options, damn so many lol

Sorry for kinda hijacking the thread but at least it is about gyoto blades


----------



## chinacats (Nov 17, 2012)

2 opinions, 
1) 240 will be comfortable to use and at least over time you will enjoy it likely more than the 210
2) run away from the Moritaka...


----------



## cclin (Nov 17, 2012)

chinacats said:


> 1) 240 will be comfortable to use and at least over time you will enjoy it likely more than the 210


+1 & if you decide to upgrade your knife in future; 240mm is more easy to sale.......


----------



## Notaskinnychef (Nov 17, 2012)

Ok. So go with the 240, and avoid moritaka, thoughts on the other suggested knives I posted?


----------



## chinacats (Nov 17, 2012)

I'd go back to the original responses about Carbonext and some cash on a few stones.


----------



## Chefdog (Nov 17, 2012)

chinacats said:


> 2 opinions,
> 1) 240 will be comfortable to use and at least over time you will enjoy it likely more than the 210
> ...



I second the recommendation for 240. Once you get comfortable with the new knife, it'll be much more productive and versatile.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Nov 17, 2012)

240 not too big not to small ,just right.This is the second time I have seen the Masakage San Mai posted.Not too many specifics on the knife,the white steel will take an extremely sharp edge.I really like the looks of that blade,why don't you try it,a blade like that will be user friendly toward increasing your freehand skills.


----------



## Notaskinnychef (Nov 17, 2012)

I'm torn, like the looks of that carbonext but also like the looks of that masakage. 

Gonna roll with the 240 tho after further thought and your answers ty.


----------



## Thirsty (Nov 17, 2012)

chinacats said:


> 2 opinions,
> 1) 240 will be comfortable to use and at least over time you will enjoy it likely more than the 210
> 2) run away from the Moritaka...



CC, do you speak from experience with this knife, or is it from things read here and there? I just bought the Moritaka, and was assured by the shop owner, made mention here numerous times, that the quality was poor on about 5 out of 1000 knives. I really like the whole package this knife delivers. 

If from experience though, I would love to hear additional comments. This is a xmas present to myself from my wife, so I will not get a chance to peek at it or use it for another 38 days!


----------



## chinacats (Nov 17, 2012)

Thirsty said:


> CC, do you speak from experience with this knife, or is it from things read here and there? I just bought the Moritaka, and was assured by the shop owner, made mention here numerous times, that the quality was poor on about 5 out of 1000 knives. I really like the whole package this knife delivers.
> 
> If from experience though, I would love to hear additional comments. This is a xmas present to myself from my wife, so I will not get a chance to peek at it or use it for another 38 days!



I do not own one, but it is because of what I have read here that I have stayed away. People that have them either enjoy them or they find they have a lemon. My thought is only that since there are lemons in the mix that I would just buy products which are known as having better qc. People here understand what they have when they have an overgrind and unfortunately for most users they will never know the difference--and maybe not even notice the hole in their knife. My theory is that if 5 of 1000 get returned (and you trust who told you this--and his name is not Mark) then many more have the same problem. One other thing to make note of is that many of these knives don't show the overgrind until a few sharpenings so you may not even notice on a new blade while you still have a chance to return it.

All makers of hand made knives can have some issues (see thick Takeda thread), but overall these makers do not have many issues that are known. There are too many quality manufacturers that put in time and effort to avoid these problems (and at the same time have the business sense to acknowledge when there is a problem) for me to take a chance buying from ones that have known issues. 

If you decide to keep your Moritaka then I am sure you will find pleasure in using it either way because it is something that your wife bought for you. That is cool and I hope you don't have a lemon...on the other hand if you haven't used it yet then why not take a little time to figure out if that is what you really want or maybe there is something else that you just haven't found yet. 

That said, there are plenty of Moritaka users here, many happy ones at that so maybe better to wait to see what they say, but you might want to start a different thread for that purpose.

Good luck and cheers!


----------



## Dave Martell (Nov 17, 2012)

Thirsty said:


> CC, do you speak from experience with this knife, or is it from things read here and there? I just bought the Moritaka, and was assured by the shop owner, made mention here numerous times, that the quality was poor on about 5 out of 1000 knives.



Wow that's better than what I've seen, I say 7 out of 10 of the Moritakas that I see are the worst knives I've ever seen. Maybe my view is skewed because I service them vs sell them?


----------



## Thirsty (Nov 18, 2012)

Dont want to hijack the thread, but I do have my fingers crossed that I will be getting a nice piece. 

This is my first Japanese knife, got a funny feeling though I will be getting several more! 

Without having anything to compare to, it may be tougher for me to spot poor crafting. We'll find out come xmas! 

Thanks for the feedback


----------



## Notaskinnychef (Nov 18, 2012)

So for the 147 it will cost me shipped, is the carbonext my best bet? I wanna order it while the sale is on


----------



## wenus2 (Nov 18, 2012)

Notaskinnychef said:


> So for the 147 it will cost me shipped, is the carbonext my best bet? I wanna order it while the sale is on


IMO,
Yes.
I think this line is currently the best value in Jknives; you really can't get more knife for less money.


----------



## bieniek (Nov 18, 2012)

Notaskinnychef said:


> I wanna order it while the sale is on



That sale is on for like last 100 years


----------



## Notaskinnychef (Nov 18, 2012)

bieniek said:


> That sale is on for like last 100 years




Oh, looks like marketing got me lol. I bought one anyways, thought it was a good price, esp for my new budget. Thanks


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Nov 18, 2012)

Since we are on Carbonext,I hear alot that it is a good bang for the buck.How is it's geometry say compared to another good starter blade the Fujiwara FKM?From what I read it should be good on the stones as well.Is it really close to carbon wt. it's sharpening & edge holding?

My knowledge of stainless & semi stainless is limited for extended time on board,however I have sharpened alot of stainless for other people esp.VG-10 Shuns.,Forschners.I do own a Fujiwara FKM,I like it's thinness behind the edge,think the steel is not bad for stainless,but it is the geometry that makes it a better blade than say a Forschner.Anyone own a Fuji & carbonext to compare?


----------

