# Pinch grip comfort?



## kbright (May 4, 2020)

Wa handles are new to me. 
For a comfortable pinch grip, how much tang extension do you like between the choil and the ferrule? 
How much drop distance from the top and bottom of the ferrule to the tang edge do you like? 
How round or beveled do you like the front of the ferrule? 

What don't you like about the feel and comfort of some wa handled chefs knives, regarding pinch grip.?


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## LostHighway (May 4, 2020)

At least relative to the German knives I've used I prefer the balance of Wa-handles* as well as the easier handle replacement aspect. I prefer the front edge of the ferrule tapered or beveled both on the sides and top & bottom. Personally I tend to like taller emotos/necks that almost extend the full vertical height of the handle (Sanjo-style?). Optimum emoto length is rather situational IME but worst case is a slender (vertically) neck with just enough space to make your middle finger "want" to slide into the cavity below the emoto between the choil and the handle but not enough space to have the finger actually comfortably fit. Everyone has their own hand and finger size and not all pinch grips are exactly alike so this is very much a YMMV situation.
*150 - 165mm is sort of a hinge point for me, below that knife length I prefer Western or hybrid handles.


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## kbright (May 4, 2020)

Most of my experience has been with Western style handles. I spend alot of time and effort shaping and contouring the handle to fit the hand. I have seen a few modified wa handles with a side bevel on the ferrule, but most are traditional flat faced ferrules. I see discussion about hexagonal and D shaped profiles, but not much about the front of the ferrule, where the pinch grip is used.


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## Barmoley (May 4, 2020)

For western handles when used in a hammer/rocket grip ergonomically shaped handles make a lot of sense. When pinch grip is concerned only the smallest 3-2 fingers are loosely holding to the handle so shape of the handle closer to the back is not important. To ma and from what I've seen the distance between the ferrule and the choil of 15-19 mm seems to be preferred. It really does depend on the size of person's hand and fingers. It also depends on the height of the neck vs the height of the handle. If these are close then the length of the neck is not as critical because the middle finger doesn't really go in between since the transition from the handle is smooth. If the transition is abrupt then I like enough room for my finger to fit. I agree with the skinny and short being a bad design, skinny and long enough can work well though. You can also get away with a shorter neck if the transition from it to the choil is radiused vs being more right angle, in the later case the neck needs to be longer. I also like for the front of the handle to taper down, especially from the sides. As far as how tall/wide the neck is, it depends, but about 20 mm in height seems to work well. All of the following work well for me, but they are all different. All are either long enough or radiused and transition from handle to neck is not abrupt or deep.


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## kbright (May 4, 2020)

Thanks, @Barmoley, I have not had the opportunity to test the feel of many wa handled knives. I know people have different size hands, and preferences. The pinch grip is a loose grip, but I wonder if a chef prepping 50 pounds of carrots gets hot spots or cramps from an awkward fit.


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## McMan (May 4, 2020)

Great detail from @Barmoley.
Got this one from Jon at JKI: 80% of the width of your middle fingertip. I've found this to be a helpful starting point is to use.
Another factor to consider is how you like the spine--if it's a thick neck, you might be able to set the spine flush with the top of the handle (or to set the bottom of the neck flush with the bottom of the handle, if that's what you like). I prefer flush at top.


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## Barmoley (May 4, 2020)

kbright said:


> Thanks, @Barmoley, I have not had the opportunity to test the feel of many wa handled knives. I know people have different size hands, and preferences. The pinch grip is a loose grip, but I wonder if a chef prepping 50 pounds of carrots gets hot spots or cramps from an awkward fit.


Hopefully one of the pros comments, but I am sure hot spots and cramps happen. I know that thin spine can be painful after a while.


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## soigne_west (May 4, 2020)

As someone who had used a handful of different knives preparing large volumes of food, I would say across the board I prefer wa handles over westerns. Not to say that there aren’t some very comfy westerners. Rounding of spine and choil, size of handle compared to my hand (on the smaller side) and distance from handle to choil being most important. If a knife is well balancened and comfortable in the pinch, I can adjust grip accordingly


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## Kippington (May 4, 2020)

I *LOVE *this topic! I came into knife-making through handling knives for hours every day, and I definitely copy the positives from what I've used across to what I make.

Unfortunately this topic is incredibly difficult to talk about due to how a lot of it depends on personal preferences. I'd be happy to post all the stuff I personally like to do regarding wa-handles and give you my reasons why... but know that (largely due to my writing style) anything I say about this topic will unfortunately sound like _"X Y and Z *have* to be done to make a knife comfortable"_, and other makers will chime in with valid rebuttals and arguments, and honestly the whole thing will very quickly become a hot mess.
I've done it once before and regretted it. 

It's also good that people have differing thoughts, or all wa-handled knives would look the same in that machi area... and that would suck.


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## soigne_west (May 4, 2020)

Would love to hear it, one of my most comfortable knives is a kippington I got from barmoley.


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## Kippington (May 4, 2020)

soigne_west said:


> Would love to hear it, one of my most comfortable knives is a kippington I got from barmoley.


Pass me the can opener...


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## M1k3 (May 4, 2020)

So far, my experience about it, as long as there's enough room to not pinch a finger, it's ok. More important is not having a sharp spine (it's been extra dry plus all the hand washing).


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## M1k3 (May 4, 2020)

Kippington said:


> Pass me the can opener...



Maybe it'll turn out more like the handle attachment one instead of the distal taper one?


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## Kippington (May 4, 2020)

Nah, it would turn out worse than any of them, haha!


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## M1k3 (May 4, 2020)




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