# worst stones you ever tried?



## inferno (Jun 6, 2021)

and why?

1 spyderco UF - slow. needs to be used dry to work. not wide enough. not flat from the factory.
almost impossible to flatten (needs sic powder). lots of stray particles that sticks up from the surface from the factory.
too hard to be of any knife use. total pos stone imo.

2 missarkas - its just like a spyderco but now its a god damn soaker instead that takes a week to dry. i mean they work, but not very fun to use.

3 noname 100 grit black sic stone. i use this with water. this stone abrades steel for about 30 seconds then it just makers grinding sounds. i think i would need to push down with 10-15kg or so to make this stone work.

4 green sigma 240. this stone cant hold any water. doesn't matter how long you soak it. every 30 sec or so it feels "dry".
i sealed mine with spray paint and now its better. the scratches are atoma 140 deep. no kidding. need to follow up with another coarse stone which takes extra time. no me gusta! 

------------------

name your ****** stones guys. dont hold back. this is free therapy for you.


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## M1k3 (Jun 6, 2021)

Naniwa Super Stone 220. Muddy, dishes, cuts slow, dishes, is muddy... 

Only redeeming qualities is the scratches are very even and smooth, and removes old, built up patina pretty good.


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## Iggy (Jun 6, 2021)

Standard cheap 1000/3000 Kombistones like you get branded from all the "not so good" knife companies... mine were from Solicut, Linder and Zwilling.

Rubbish...


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## stringer (Jun 6, 2021)

Naniwa Lobster Chemical 4k. The abrasive that gets released sticks to the knife and provides it with a protective shell that prevents any meaningful contact between the stone and the edge making actual abrasion near impossible.


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## Benuser (Jun 6, 2021)

I once had a Sun combination 320/1000. The 1000 was pleasant, a bit creamy, fast. The coarse side whose grit I'm not sure about did exactly nothing but leaving deep scratches without removing any steel, how paradoxical that might sound.


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## Mr.Wizard (Jun 6, 2021)

I think almost every stone has a place unless it's garbage to begin with. This seems to be borne out by the fact that whatever one person hates another likes. The Spyderco Ultra Fine is very popular in some circles for example. I've seen Atoma described as both "the worst diamond plate I've ever used" and "the best diamond plates ever made." So I recommend including how and on what you were using these stones you hate.

I nearly tossed out my Cerax 320 in frustration because it wore so fast while doing so little. However I was misinformed as to the nature of the stone and thought it would be good for thinning and beveling. Now what remains of it sits on a shelf waiting for the day I want to apply a kasumi finish.


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## tcmx3 (Jun 6, 2021)

I have a very, very hard shobu iromono that, if it can be used to polish knives, requires super expert skill to not basically polish at 2 different grits, one what you'd expect and one about 200 grit -_-


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## spaceconvoy (Jun 6, 2021)

Beston 500, never understood why that used to be a popular stone. Slower than many 1ks and feels like sharpening on a concrete paver. Also the blue nonpareil synth aoto, ludicrously muddy and slow... I guess it's been a while since I bought a bad stone


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## Rangen (Jun 6, 2021)

I agree with Mr. Wizard. No doubt there are stones out there that are just crap. But when think about stones I disliked most, it's mostly a history of me failing to appreciate them.

I have JNats I have never found a use for, but I think I just need to figure out what they are good for, and how to manage them. A couple of them are probably really really good.

I owned a 6000 Naniwa diamond stone for decades. I had put it aside because it seemed to barely do anything. Now I know that it just glazes easily; if I go over the surface often, it's actually wonderful to sharpen on, with very good feedback for a diamond stone.

I have a Jasper stone that seems to put nasty scratches on my edges, and is sitting unused, but apparently I need to learn a lot more about surface management to use this sort of stone. Someday.

Meanwhile, while I don't use them much, because I have better alternatives for my tasks, I do like my Spydercos, and at one point used them all the time. They are great for pocketknives. I even have the larger version of the UF. I also found them useful for developing my sharpening technique, precisely because they were slow. I could work on my hand and arm placement without doing too much damage. I agree they should come flat.

Update: Actually I do have a stone to nominate here: the King 6000, the yellow stone on the wooden base. Hard and slick and slow...hmmm, maybe that one just needs a glazed surface fixed, too.


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## Qapla' (Jun 6, 2021)

Rangen said:


> I owned a 6000 Naniwa diamond stone for decades. I had put it aside because it seemed to barely do anything. Now I know that it just glazes easily; if I go over the surface often, it's actually wonderful to sharpen on, with very good feedback for a diamond stone.


What constitutes "going over the surface" for a diamond stone? What material do you use?


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## Rangen (Jun 6, 2021)

Qapla' said:


> What constitutes "going over the surface" for a diamond stone? What material do you use?



Naniwa diamond stones actually come with a conditioning stone. I had long ago lost the one that came with the 6000, so I use the one that came with the 3000, under running water.

I sometimes use a Nanohone NL-10, which can be used with resin-bonded diamond stones.

Haven't tried silicon carbide powder on glass/granite, but I assume that would work too. You're cutting resin, not diamonds.


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## M1k3 (Jun 6, 2021)

Rangen said:


> I agree with Mr. Wizard. No doubt there are stones out there that are just crap. But when think about stones I disliked most, it's mostly a history of me failing to appreciate them.
> 
> I have JNats I have never found a use for, but I think I just need to figure out what they are good for, and how to manage them. A couple of them are probably really really good.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah! King 6k sucks! Resurfaced or not.


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## pgugger (Jun 6, 2021)

spaceconvoy said:


> Beston 500, never understood why that used to be a popular stone. Slower than many 1ks and feels like sharpening on a concrete paver.



Yup, I was gonna add this one when I first saw the thread but momentarily had decided to shy away from controversy. Certainly my least favorite of the now large number of stones I have! I agree with your reasons plus it seems to glaze and need flattening fairly often (not the worst) and soaks forever and still drinks.


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## Jovidah (Jun 6, 2021)

Not a ton of experience with different stones, but the cheap Chinese knockoff crap I started out with were definitly the worst. Grits were...well... advertised amibitously, the feel was atrocious on the low grits, while the higher grits were so soft you'd cut into it about as easy as cheese.
Although they sort of tie with the cheap ass Naniwa flattening stones. Those things just clog up and glaze over, and while they start off doing the job reasonable it's sort of like they go 'dull' over time. Really should have just bought an Atoma straight away.


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## Carl Kotte (Jun 6, 2021)

My worst experiences: Ohishi 220. Sg220, sg3000, sg8000.


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## Ruso (Jun 6, 2021)

I never understood the newly appeared hype over shapton glass stones. They are just okay (subjective, obviously) at least the ones I tried.
The worst stone I tried must be $10 stone in hardware store. It concaved 50% during 2 sharpenings. 
JNS 1000 SnG (new one), is definitely a disappointment. 
Super Stone 5K good for mirror, bad for sharpening. So depends on ones needs.


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## Carl Kotte (Jun 6, 2021)

This is not the appreciation thread, but... for balance, I do love sg320, sg1000 and sg4000.


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## Rangen (Jun 6, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Oh yeah! King 6k sucks! Resurfaced or not.



I've never, before or since, used a stone with no feedback whatsoever. I never want to use one again.


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## Rangen (Jun 6, 2021)

Carl Kotte said:


> This is not the appreciation thread, but... for balance, I do love sg320, sg1000 and sg4000.



I was prepared to say that I have Shapton Glass stones from 320 through 30K, and they all seem consistently good to me, and very similar to use, grit aside. (I have the 220, but that one is not similar)

But it turns out that I don't have either the 3K or the 8K. So maybe I dodged a bullet? Or, maybe, if I had them, what seems so obvious to you would escape me.


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## M1k3 (Jun 6, 2021)

Rangen said:


> I've never, before or since, used a stone with no feedback whatsoever. I never want to use one again.


Ignoring the feedback of the stone, it still sucks. Leaves a smooth edge with no bite (my 10k stone leaves more bite). Random small stray scratches when trying to polish. To hard yet soft enough to cut into.. at least it's splash and go enough?


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## zizirex (Jun 6, 2021)

Naniwa Pink 220, Tanaka 150, Naniwa Pro 400, naniwa lobster 150/180.


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## GorillaGrunt (Jun 6, 2021)

Naniwa SS 12k until I realized that it was a soaker and I was using it as a splash and go. Beyond that hard to say, I’d want to say a lot of my beginner stones but I likewise didn’t really know how to use them.


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## esoo (Jun 6, 2021)

Shapton Pro 5000 - super hard with minimal feedback. My higher grits stones responded better.


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## Michi (Jun 6, 2021)

Any of the unbranded el-cheapo two-sided stones that you can buy on Amazon for $20 are terrible. Smaller than a normal stone, much coarser than the nominal grit rating, and they wear away in no time.

The best low-cost stone setup I'm aware of is the King KDS 1000/6000. Good enough to sharpen anything, and the only stone non-sharpening nerds will ever need.


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## Pie (Jun 6, 2021)

Naniwa traditional 220. I may not have tried enough stones to qualify but it’s easily the least pleasant one I own. Scratchy, thirsty, easily gouged and glazes fast. Coarse stones I’ve tried never feel peaceful to use but it’s night and day with SG220.




GorillaGrunt said:


> Naniwa SS 12k until I realized that it was a soaker and I was using it as a splash and go. Beyond that hard to say, I’d want to say a lot of my beginner stones but I likewise didn’t really know how to use them.


Wait, what? Soaker?


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## M1k3 (Jun 7, 2021)

Pie said:


> Wait, what? Soaker?


It's a resinoid stone. It can be soaked.


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## NO ChoP! (Jun 7, 2021)

Pink Naniwa Superstone 3k. The thing gums up so damn quick. I have the 5k and it doesn't gum up nearly as fast as the 3k; I don't get it.


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## Pie (Jun 7, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> It's a resinoid stone. It can be soaked.


Looks like I’ll be getting an hour less sleep tonight


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## mrmoves92 (Jun 7, 2021)

The worst stone that I have used is a $4 two sided coarse aluminum oxide stone that I found at H Mart. It loaded up almost immediately and became pretty useless after.


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## M1k3 (Jun 7, 2021)

NO ChoP! said:


> Pink Naniwa Superstone 3k. The thing gums up so damn quick. I have the 5k and it doesn't gum up nearly as fast as the 3k; I don't get it.


Try soaking it?


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## cotedupy (Jun 7, 2021)

I picked up a very crumbly bit of incredibly coarse sandstone off the side of the road the other week, to prove a point about being able to sharpen a knife to a usable state on almost any rock you see. I just about managed it, but that was a piece of s**t... 

Seriously though - at the risk of further damning some Naniwa stones - my least favourite stone is a Naniwa Kagayaki 3k (thin version of SS I believe), for exactly the reason that @NO ChoP! mentioned above.


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## cotedupy (Jun 7, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> Try soaking it?



Can you do this with SSs? I thought I read somewhere it was very bad for them for some reason...

[Edit - sorry I've seen you've answered that already. Guess it's going in the bucket!]


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## Matus (Jun 7, 2021)

My buyee suita ...


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## M1k3 (Jun 7, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Can you do this with SSs? I thought I read somewhere it was very bad for them for some reason...
> 
> [Edit - sorry I've seen you've answered that already. Guess it's going in the bucket!]


As long as you're aware of how to dry resinoid stones evenly.


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## cotedupy (Jun 7, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> As long as you're aware of how to dry resinoid stones evenly.



I am not currently but will look up. Ta.

What about permasoaking? (That’s what I was thinking.)


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## Boynutman (Jun 7, 2021)

Kitchen Knives Handcrafted in Japan | Shun Cutlery


Incredibly sharp edges and unmatched aesthetics set Shun kitchen knives apart. Every Shun requires at least 100 handcrafted steps to complete. Stunning beauty, top performance.




shun.kaiusa.com





I assume this is what @Benuser was referring to. 300 side releases sand and crumbles and scratches without doing anything. Absolute crap. 1000 side is nice and creamy though.


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## Benuser (Jun 7, 2021)

Boynutman said:


> Kitchen Knives Handcrafted in Japan | Shun Cutlery
> 
> 
> Incredibly sharp edges and unmatched aesthetics set Shun kitchen knives apart. Every Shun requires at least 100 handcrafted steps to complete. Stunning beauty, top performance.
> ...


Indeed, that was the one! Thanks!


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## M1k3 (Jun 7, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> I am not currently but will look up. Ta.
> 
> What about permasoaking? (That’s what I was thinking.)


No problem. Just the drying part to be cautious about.


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## Se1ryu (Jul 6, 2022)

King KW-65 1000/6000 combo stone. It's a whetstone for home use and I didn't know it back then because it's not explained it in the description. 

I used it on my Blue 2 yanagiba and the results: 
• 1000 grit stone are slow and soft. But ok for home use Sharpening softer steel. After all, this is a stone that is meant for home use
• 6000 grit stone also fell very soft and the polishing result looks like it was polished using 1000 grit. I tried slicing some fish for nigiri and the blade is very sticky. Doesn't give me that smooth cutting feel like when I use king kds 3000 grit side. 
I thought I just received a fake king stone lol, then I did some research and it turned out KW-65 is a whetstone for home use.


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## Nemo (Jul 6, 2022)

Mr.Wizard said:


> I nearly tossed out my Cerax 320 in frustration because it wore so fast while doing so little. However I was misinformed as to the nature of the stone and thought it would be good for thinning and beveling. Now what remains of it sits on a shelf waiting for the day I want to apply a kasumi finish.


I was similarly disappointed with Cerax 320 at first. I bought it intending to do a big chip repair (10ish mm high). I watched the stone melt before my eyes, but not the steel. It did put a nice kasumi on the blade face. I ended up doing the chip repair on coarser sandpaper but the Cerax did come in handy refining the polish on the wide bevel.


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## Nemo (Jul 6, 2022)

Rangen said:


> I owned a 6000 Naniwa diamond stone for decades. I had put it aside because it seemed to barely do anything. Now I know that it just glazes easily; if I go over the surface often, it's actually wonderful to sharpen on, with very good feedback for a diamond stone.


I have the same stone which I use as a finishing stone for steels with hard carbides.

I don't mine it either, there is some feedback and it leaves a pretty nice edge. I haven't noticed glazing but I guess glazing is less of an issue if only used for finishing?


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## Nemo (Jul 6, 2022)

zizirex said:


> Naniwa Pink 220... Naniwa Pro 400.


Agree on the Naniwa Pink 220- sounds and feels awful, without seeming to do much except mess up the surface. And water just runs through it. I need to seal it and see if that changes it.

Interesting to see your perpective on the Pro400... I have the Chosera 400 rather than the Pro, but they are supposed to be similar. I quite like this stone. Good feedback, removes a decent amount of metal (keeping in mind that it's really a circa 600 grit stone), works well on most high alloy steels, doesn't load much, wears pretty slow. It's the stone that I do light to medium thinning jobs with and it's my mainstay for sharpening Western stainless knives.


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## Luftmensch (Jul 6, 2022)

Nemo said:


> Interesting to see your perpective on the Pro400... I have the Chosera 400 rather than the Pro, but they are supposed to be similar. I quite like this stone. Good feedback, removes a decent amount of metal (keeping in mind that it's really a circa 600 grit stone), works well on most high alloy steels, doesn't load much, wears pretty slow. It's the stone that I do light to medium thinning jobs with and it's my mainstay for sharpening Western stainless knives.



Agreed. I have a worn Chosera 400 that is now a bit of a skateboard half-pipe.... and a Pro 400 that i am keeping flat. I'll confirm what others have said... I am sure they are the same... and If they aren't... I _can't_ tell the difference... just different packaging.

The Chosera/Pro 400 is a great stone! The worst thing about it is how soft it is... and while it might not deserve to be on the list of best stones.... I cant really see why it deserves a spot on the list of worst stones!!



"worst stones you ever tried?"



zizirex said:


> Naniwa Pro 400



I guess you have only used pretty great stones!!! 

Nah, seriously... I would like to hear more on this perspective


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## Jovidah (Jul 6, 2022)

I don't like the 400 either. It always felt rather underwhelming and slow to me. Like it's not really goign any faster than my 1k. It feels like crap (I guess all course stones do).


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## cotedupy (Jul 6, 2022)

I actually used a Superstone 400 a while back at a friend's house when sharpening his knives for him - part of his 400/1k combi. The 1k side was only ok, the 400 though was really quite good I thought.


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## Nemo (Jul 6, 2022)

Luftmensch said:


> The Chosera/Pro 400 is a great stone! The worst thing about it is how soft it is...



In my mind's eye (well, in my mind's fingertips, I guess), it's not that soft.

I have some Vics to sharpen in the next few days, so I will pay attention to it's hardness and see if I have missed this.


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## Luftmensch (Jul 6, 2022)

Nemo said:


> In my mind's eye (well, in my mind's fingertips, I guess), it's not that soft.
> 
> I have some Vic's to sharpen in the next few days, so I will pay attention to it's hardness and see if I have missed this.



By soft I mean prone to dishing...

It is decent when working on a secondary bevel (small surface area)... but if you are thinning (e.g. zero grind), the stone releases abrasives quickly.... (at least relative to, say the 1k). But I think this is par for the course in low grit stones?? If you want fast(ish) cutting, you need to release fresh abrasives. If the stone is releasing binder and abrasives, the geometry of the face will be changing (dishing)!

I really like the Cho/Pro 400... I haven't bothered trying out all the low-mid stones out there. But from what I read, the Cho 400 is not the best at anything... nor is it the worst. It seems like a good compromise between speed, hardness and feedback - yet not excelling at any department in particular?


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## Nemo (Jul 6, 2022)

Luftmensch said:


> By soft I mean prone to dishing...
> 
> It is decent when working on a secondary bevel (small surface area)... but if you are thinning (e.g. zero grind), the stone releases abrasives quickly.... (at least relative to, say the 1k). But I think this is par for the course in low grit stones?? If you want fast(ish) cutting, you need to release fresh abrasives. If the stone is releasing binder and abrasives, the geometry of the face will be changing (dishing)!
> 
> I really like the Cho/Pro 400... I haven't bothered trying out all the low-mid stones out there. But from what I read, the Cho 400 is not the best at anything... nor is it the worst. It seems like a good compromise between speed, hardness and feedback - yet not excelling at any department in particular?


Yeah, this is pretty close to my experience. 

However, it certainly dishes orders of magnitude less than my Cerax 320.


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## ModRQC (Jul 6, 2022)

Reason I sold the NP400 is it was pretty useless for thinning/polishing, either too slow or too dishy. As said above, secondary bevel/sharpening it's alright. Saying it feels like crap however is far fetched to me, especially in the grit range it's at. But for this kind of use I much prefer SG320 or SG500 depending on the job. 

I have the Imanishi 220 pink brick - think they're all the same anyhow - and concur it's terrible. It IS the worst stone I ever used by far. 



Nemo said:


> Agree on the Naniwa Pink 220- sounds and feels awful, without seeming to do much except mess up the surface. And water just runs through it. I need to seal it and see if that changes it.



I don't think it will help much - but didn't try it. Just that the behavior is close to the Pride 220 I still own, and sealing that one didn't help much indeed. The Pride does feel a bit nicer since a bit finer, softer and muddier, requires a bit less splashes, is a bit slow for grits but at least if thinning the scratch pattern is easier to pick upon, and does at least improve moderately from soaking. Pride is probably the second worse stone I ever used but it's still not the same category as the Pink Brick. And both are very prone to loading, unless maybe you use them under running water - which is probably the best way to drive them anyhow. POS like these two have been replaced in my main use on good knives by a Nanohone 200. Don't need it often, but when in need the Nanohone is quite a superior stone. 

I can say permasoaking the Pink Brick doesn't help one bit, so basically it "can" be used as a S&G... keeping in mind you'll be constantly splashing it again, which in my mind doesn't correlate the idea of S&G, buuuuut... since soaking it is a waste of time anyhow, I'd call it S&G. 

I've kept it because well, super coarse stone can always get use for the resell money. In this case, repairs, reprofiling, getting a primary on subpar cheap SS - or basically any job I'd rather save the Nanohone from.


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## Jovidah (Jul 6, 2022)

ModRQC said:


> I can say permasoaking the Pink Brick doesn't help one bit, so basically it "can" be used as a S&G... keeping in mind you'll be constantly splashing it again, which in my mind doesn't correlate the idea of S&G, buuuuut... since soaking it is a waste of time anyhow, I'd call it S&G.


Splash & grumble?


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## ModRQC (Jul 6, 2022)

Jovidah said:


> Splash & grumble?



Something along that line… 

I’d accept Splash & Gag as well.


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## MowgFace (Jul 6, 2022)

Naniwa Green Brick.

Dislike the feedback, and finish. For all the hell i give it, it's really not all that _bad_ of a stone. What always bothered me was the INSANE hype that it was given, just to find what it was.


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## Ruso (Jul 6, 2022)

Another vote of confidence for NP400. I quite like the stone. I like it for minor thinning, bevel blending, setting up the bevels. I like the feedback and sound. Good overall stone.


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## Pie (Jul 6, 2022)

NP400 has to be one of my favourite synthetics. I don’t have a ton but it behaves well (much better than the cerax 320) and you can manipulate the finish easily. It’s great for blending, not too fast and you can actually see what you’re doing most of the time. 

I think I said it before in this thread.. but man pink 220 is atrocious in my hands. Still can’t use it.


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## M1k3 (Jul 6, 2022)

Pie said:


> I think I said it before in this thread.. but man pink 220 is atrocious in my hands. Still can’t use it.


Naniwa SS 220 might just beat it. In uselessness.


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## ian (Jul 7, 2022)

I did not like Suehiro Debada 320, or any of the Sigma PowerSelect II stones, except maybe the 240, although plenty do like them it seems. Debado dishes like sand and the Sigma stones feel like death. But whatevs.


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## labor of love (Jul 7, 2022)

All low grit pink bricks regardless of brand, morihei 3k, naniwa hayabusa 4K, splash and go 3k from a major vendor, 90% of jnats


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## zizirex (Jul 7, 2022)

Nemo said:


> Agree on the Naniwa Pink 220- sounds and feels awful, without seeming to do much except mess up the surface. And water just runs through it. I need to seal it and see if that changes it.
> 
> Interesting to see your perpective on the Pro400... I have the Chosera 400 rather than the Pro, but they are supposed to be similar. I quite like this stone. Good feedback, removes a decent amount of metal (keeping in mind that it's really a circa 600 grit stone), works well on most high alloy steels, doesn't load much, wears pretty slow. It's the stone that I do light to medium thinning jobs with and it's my mainstay for sharpening Western stainless knives.





Luftmensch said:


> Agreed. I have a worn Chosera 400 that is now a bit of a skateboard half-pipe.... and a Pro 400 that i am keeping flat. I'll confirm what others have said... I am sure they are the same... and If they aren't... I _can't_ tell the difference... just different packaging.
> 
> The Chosera/Pro 400 is a great stone! The worst thing about it is how soft it is... and while it might not deserve to be on the list of best stones.... I cant really see why it deserves a spot on the list of worst stones!!
> 
> ...


After using it a while longer, and trying other stones, I have grown a bit to use it. Some people swear by it for polishing, but it's definitely not for me. it's a bit hard and Morihei 500 did a better job. SG 500 has nicer feedback for major sharpening and finishing. It's kinda oddball as well because my Tanaka 320 fits my purpose better since it cuts faster and leaves a more even finish for progressing.

I found that it's good for sharpening a western knife and a chisel or a plane. Still, for these tools, it's not quick enough for dealing with super blunt tools esp if I need to remove a lot of material from a whole bevel.


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## Naftoor (Jul 7, 2022)

I’ve actually had no issues with my spyderco stones. Although I wish they were larger. Full disclaimer I purchased all 3 second hand, and the guy actually flattened them so I haven’t had to deal with them being out of flat from the factory thankfully. I think that would influence my opinion if I did, they’re hard stones so flattening them is probably a nightmare. 

They are incredibly slow, and very fine. For comparison sake even the medium feels closer to a king 6k rather than a king 1k. Definitely not for thinning or repair work, but it’s a very resistant to dishing, splash and go that works fine for touch ups at a price that isn’t too crazy. Would I buy them again? Frankly I’d probably buy them for a wood shop for touching up tools, but not for the kitchen. But I wouldn’t be offended if someone gave me one. 

The king 6k side of the king combistone however? That stone sucked. 6k was more then I needed grit wise (but I bought it when I first got into sharpening and didn’t realize it). It gouges something awful, if your angle slips (as it will when learning, many times) your stone gets ugly as sin real quick and you can feel a piece of your soul die everytime you hear that scrape.


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## M1k3 (Jul 7, 2022)

Naftoor said:


> The king 6k side of the king combistone however? That stone sucked. 6k was more then I needed grit wise (but I bought it when I first got into sharpening and didn’t realize it). It gouges something awful, if your angle slips (as it will when learning, many times) your stone gets ugly as sin real quick and you can feel a piece of your soul die everytime you hear that scrape.


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## Pie (Jul 7, 2022)

ian said:


> I did not like Suehiro Debada 320, or any of the Sigma PowerSelect II stones, except maybe the 240, although plenty do like them it seems. Debado dishes like sand and the Sigma stones feel like death. But whatevs.


This is helpful. I was looking at the debado 320 hoping it wouldn't dish like the cerax. 

I have this odd impression that I’ll find a low grit stone I love. Somehow I don’t think that’s going to happen. Sigma was (and probably is) going to be my next attempt.


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## Cliff (Jul 7, 2022)

Have you tried the Debado 180? It's the first low grit I really like. I also have SP120, Nubatama Platinum 220, and Cerax 320


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## BoSharpens (Jul 8, 2022)

Got one to beat them all, and I guarantee you will agree!

'Sharpening' on a concrete curb is definitely for losers.


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## Rangen (Jul 8, 2022)

Nemo said:


> I have the same stone which I use as a finishing stone for steels with hard carbides.
> 
> I don't mine it either, there is some feedback and it leaves a pretty nice edge. I haven't noticed glazing but I guess glazing is less of an issue if only used for finishing?


I was using it for finishing too, but not on steels with hard carbides. I'm not sure what the difference is in our experiences. Maybe the hard carbides help keep the stone from glazing?


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## Rangen (Jul 8, 2022)

Naftoor said:


> The king 6k side of the king combistone however? That stone sucked. 6k was more then I needed grit wise (but I bought it when I first got into sharpening and didn’t realize it). It gouges something awful, if your angle slips (as it will when learning, many times) your stone gets ugly as sin real quick and you can feel a piece of your soul die everytime you hear that scrape.


If it's anything like the King 6k standalone I had...I gouged that one sometimes too, and not, I think, just in the newbie phase. It was so darned slippery, condition it as I might, that I couldn't keep it consistently on the bevel. What an awful stone.


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## Nemo (Jul 8, 2022)

Rangen said:


> I was using it for finishing too, but not on steels with hard carbides. I'm not sure what the difference is in our experiences. Maybe the hard carbides help keep the stone from glazing?


Maybe. But I do tend to use the conditioning stone every time I break it out, so probably every 1 or 2 knives. So maybe I would notice more loading if I didn't. Especially given that I've only used it to polish an already existing edge.


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## Rangen (Jul 8, 2022)

Nemo said:


> Maybe. But I do tend to use the conditioning stone every time I break it out, so probably every 1 or 2 knives. So maybe I would notice more loading if I didn't. Especially given that I've only used it to polish an already existing edge.


Oh. That sounds like sufficient explanation, and is about what I do.


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## rob (Jul 8, 2022)

While the Naniwa 1000 diamond cuts fast and is great for a quick reset of bevels. It doesn't feel or sound very nice.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 19, 2022)

A brown saeki and a sasaguchi-do. Both coarse, but much slower than i antecipated.
I'm still figuring out if i can find a use for both.


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## jwthaparc (Jul 19, 2022)

mrmoves92 said:


> The worst stone that I have used is a $4 two sided coarse aluminum oxide stone that I found at H Mart. It loaded up almost immediately and became pretty useless after.


This is similar to one of the things i was going to list. 

However the one I bought at hmart was a silicon carbide stones and I have never seen a stone dish faster in my life, and I've used the cerax 320. Its absurd. One sharpening, or thinning and most of the stone is gone. The good thing about it though, is it's so friable its pretty good for getting out deep scratches after thinning. 

On the opposite side of the spectrum. I bought a silicon carbide oil stone from ace hardware. The fine and the coarse side were terrible. It glazed immediatel. It's to the point of be unusable if you ask me. I've never found a practical application for this stone, and I should honestly just throw it in the trash. Its so bad, it made me think that other oilstones, and particularly the crystalon would be terrible too. Thankfully i was wrong. 

Moral of the story, buy your stones from real abrasive companies.


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## jwthaparc (Jul 19, 2022)

ModRQC said:


> Something along that line…
> 
> I’d accept Splash & Gag as well.


Idk..... that sounds like something else...


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## refcast (Jul 19, 2022)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> A brown saeki and a sasaguchi-do. Both coarse, but much slower than i antecipated.
> I'm still figuring out if i can find a use for both.



How's it like compared to the black saeki? The black one is supposed to be finer but that one was so fast. Omura I have is kinda weird or slow. . . just sorta glazes but wears down. I also had a black saeki that was super hard and fine like a fine aoto. It had the saeki spots and coloration though.


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## zizirex (Aug 14, 2022)

Gonna add Naniwa Pro 5000. I got to use it for some knives, and I never realize it is that bad and overpriced.


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## M1k3 (Aug 14, 2022)

zizirex said:


> Gonna add Naniwa Pro 5000. I got to use it for some knives, and I never realize it is that bad and overpriced.


Try out the Naniwa SS 220. I'm pretty sure it'll make that Pro 5k seem actually worth something.


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## zizirex (Aug 14, 2022)

M1k3 said:


> Try out the Naniwa SS 220. I'm pretty sure it'll make that Pro 5k seem actually worth something.


Nahh, both is just a WOM LOL


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## daveb (Aug 14, 2022)

spaceconvoy said:


> Beston 500, never understood why that used to be a popular stone. Slower than many 1ks and feels like sharpening on a concrete paver. Also the blue nonpareil synth aoto, ludicrously muddy and slow... I guess it's been a while since I bought a bad stone


 The Bestor 500 is also my worst ever. One of my first stones, thirsty bastard, but could be too wet in a minute. Never could get the balance. Tried it again after a couple years and still didn't work for me. Eff it.

The Shapton Pro 5000 is the only Shapton I've not found a use for. Just Meh. 

And pink 220's. Rather go to the dentist.


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## EricEricEric (Aug 14, 2022)

That 180 Suehiro, SP 120 is really hit or miss or needs a lot of special prep.

I’m using the 120 Gritomatic now, but then still check with my SP120 afterwards 

As for natural stones I instantly sold my Natsuya and Aizu 

SP 5000 is for final polishing before suita or tomae or if you have a super fine nagura, I use this stone for all of my polishes/sharpening


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## jwthaparc (Aug 14, 2022)

I feel like theres so much variation in natural stones, they might as well be left off of this thread. Maybe one aizu is terrible, but another could be perfect for certain jobs. It's such a roll of the dice, I don't think it would be fair to put any of them as terrible.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Aug 14, 2022)

I don't like King 800 to set a bevel on cheap stainless as there are so many faster alternatives, but it works when used for polishing.


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## Nemo (Aug 15, 2022)

zizirex said:


> Gonna add Naniwa Pro 5000. I got to use it for some knives, and I never realize it is that bad and overpriced.


I just bought the Gokuen Arata (Baby Chosera) 5k out of interest, as others had said that it was very soft with poor feedback. After another thread where it was mentioned that stone to stone variation is a thing, I wondered whether these views reflected the whole line or were just bad examples of the line.

I found it to be softer than my Chosera 3k, but not ridiculously soft. The feedback is there although different to the 3k. It's quite useful feedback, though. The main thing I noticed was how thirsty the stone is, even though I sealed it. It's only 15mm thick but needed a splash every couple of seconds. Where does the water go?

I quite liked the edge it gave (after Chosera 1k then 3k). It was definitely finer than the 3k. Reminiscent of a Belgian Blue.


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## zizirex (Aug 15, 2022)

Nemo said:


> I just bought the Gokuen Arata (Baby Chosera) 5k out of interest, as others had said that it was very soft with poor feedback. After another thread where it was mentioned that stone to stone variation is a thing, I wondered whether these views reflected the whole line or were just bad examples of the line.
> 
> I found it to be softer than my Chosera 3k, but not ridiculously soft. The feedback is there although different to the 3k. It's quite useful feedback, though. The main thing I noticed was how thirsty the stone is, even though I sealed it. It's only 15mm thick but needed a splash every couple of seconds. Where does the water go?
> 
> I quite liked the edge it gave (after Chosera 1k then 3k). It was definitely finer than the 3k. Reminiscent of a Belgian Blue.


the edge is okay, Arashiyama 6k or Morihei 6k produced a better edge for me. even Chosera 3K + Nagura is more than enough for most job.


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## zizirex (Aug 15, 2022)

Shapton 5K vs Naniwa Pro 5k,

Battle of the worst 5k... at least one is half the price.


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## labor of love (Aug 15, 2022)

Yeah I tried a coworkers shapton pro 5k once. It was in terrible condition, very clogged and had never been flattened. After about 10 minutes with an atoma it performed about the same as it did clogged lol. Definitely recommend staying away from that stone.


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## Cmfuen (Aug 15, 2022)

I’ll say my Nubatama Ume 4k because I paid too much for it before I knew much about stones. Also, I don’t really need a 4k, so now I have a creamy green paper weight.


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## Famima (Aug 16, 2022)

I really dislike my Shapton Pro 1k - first stone I got and, looking back, wish that a) the shop that sold it to me didn't sell it to me and b) I'd bought another medium grit sooner! Still have it but months go by without me using it, then I think "hmm, maybe it wasn't so bad, i should use it more" promptly to re-appreciate the reasons I hadn't used it for months... It cuts fast and wears slowly but has absolutely minimal feedback.


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## Mr Kooby Shemayrew (Aug 16, 2022)

Weird to see the Shapton 5K and Aizu getting some hate on here. I had assumed they were good. I’ve never had either one so I don’t have a say. 

I have a 60 grit Naniwa Lobster. I thought if a 220 grit stone is good, a 60 grit has to be four times as good. Nope. Zero water retention and doesn’t cut at all. Worked good for sanding down some fiberglass though.


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## ethompson (Aug 16, 2022)

Aizu is still the GOAT mid-grit edge stone IMO


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## Ben.G. (Aug 16, 2022)

My first stone, about 15 years ago, was a Messermeister 400/1000 combo stone. It’s a fairly coarse and thirsty stone that cuts slow. Only upside is it’s slow wearing. I didn’t know how bad it was until I started using better stones about two years ago. Now my NP400 and SP1k, SP2k feel like heaven in comparison to that old Messermeister. Even Norton oil stones feel better.


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## Tapio (Aug 16, 2022)

Suehiro Kongou-to Coarse 80. It's just too soft. Fells like trying to sharpend a knife on a warm block of butter. Debado 200 (180), on the other hand, is perfect.


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## Choppin (Aug 16, 2022)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I don't like King 800 to set a bevel on cheap stainless as there are so many faster alternatives, but it works when used for polishing.


Agree! I use mine for polishing only, jumping from a King 300 or SG500 and before starting on naturals. Don't like them for edges in general.


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## Heckel7302 (Aug 16, 2022)

Choppin said:


> Agree! I use mine for polishing only, jumping from a King 300 or SG500 and before starting on naturals. Don't like them for edges in general.


Same here. For polishing, King 300>King 800 (both permasoaked) then on to naturals.


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## MowgFace (Aug 16, 2022)

Mr Kooby Shemayrew said:


> Weird to see the Shapton 5K and Aizu getting some hate on here. I had assumed they were good. I’ve never had either one so I don’t have a say.



I am not surprised to see the shapton pro 5K. That stone has sucked for years. I remember getting hate for not liking it almost 10 years ago.

For Aizu, I think the variability is part of it, but also many different people here have different dislikes and likes. I would be hard pressed to find anything that doesn’t have at least a handful of members who hate highly regarded Knives/Stones.


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## miggus (Aug 16, 2022)

I have a Kai Combination stone 400/1000 that is straight from knife hell. 

The 400 side is extremely hard and will get polished and shiny when trying to sharpen knives on it. I have been using this to flatten all my stones for the last 8 years, it hasn't lost much height at all. Something must be wrong with it lol, it is just super super hard.
The 1000 side is the other extreme - so soft that it will get dished with just a few minutes of sharpening, one has to be very careful not to cut into it with a knife because it is so soft.
I don't think the stone should be THAT bad. A big company like Kai should now what they're doing. I assume it is some kind of factory defect, but it is just a spiteful stone.


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## Choppin (Aug 16, 2022)

Heckel7302 said:


> Same here. For polishing, King 300>King 800 (both permasoaked) then on to naturals.


Isn’t the King 300 a splash n go? The Deluxe


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## Heckel7302 (Aug 16, 2022)

Choppin said:


> Isn’t the King 300 a splash n go? The Deluxe


Technically yes, but on the advice of some KKF members I dropped it in the tank. It's been soaking for about 6 months with no deleterious results. I like it a lot more now. It's a little softer and releases grit much more readily and is impervious to glazing, which is great for initial polishing work, and that's what I mostly use it for. If I was using it for edges, I'd probably prefer it in it's splash and go state.


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## daveb (Aug 16, 2022)

Re: 800 grit stones. I've used examples from JKI (jinzo), JNS and the King. IME all were good for setting up initial kasumi finish - prob by design. None were worth spit when trying to sharpen. The only 800 that's a sharpening stone is the Shapton Pro 1000. It will raise a burr on anything.



miggus said:


> I don't think the stone should be THAT bad. A big company like Kai should now what they're doing. I assume it is some kind of factory defect, but it is just a spiteful stone.



Never underestimate the suckiness of a rebranded stone from a knife company.


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## MowgFace (Aug 16, 2022)

miggus said:


> I have a Kai Combination stone 400/1000 that is straight from knife hell.
> 
> The 400 side is extremely hard and will get polished and shiny when trying to sharpen knives on it. I have been using this to flatten all my stones for the last 8 years, it hasn't lost much height at all. Something must be wrong with it lol, it is just super super hard.
> The 1000 side is the other extreme - so soft that it will get dished with just a few minutes of sharpening, one has to be very careful not to cut into it with a knife because it is so soft.
> I don't think the stone should be THAT bad. A big company like Kai should now what they're doing. I assume it is some kind of factory defect, but it is just a spiteful stone.



I mean... Apple is a pretty big company, and they finally upgraded their webcams away from 720P in 2022...


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## Mr Kooby Shemayrew (Aug 17, 2022)

miggus said:


> I have a Kai Combination stone 400/1000 that is straight from knife hell.
> 
> The 400 side is extremely hard and will get polished and shiny when trying to sharpen knives on it. I have been using this to flatten all my stones for the last 8 years, it hasn't lost much height at all. Something must be wrong with it lol, it is just super super hard.
> The 1000 side is the other extreme - so soft that it will get dished with just a few minutes of sharpening, one has to be very careful not to cut into it with a knife because it is so soft.
> I don't think the stone should be THAT bad. A big company like Kai should now what they're doing. I assume it is some kind of factory defect, but it is just a spiteful stone.



My first stone was a Kai 400/1000, light blue on one side and darker blue on the other. Piece of junk soft Chinese stone that Kai rebrands and marks up. Seriously, you’d think a Japanese company would at least rebrand and mark up a Japanese stone. I ended up giving it away after buying a King 800/6000.


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## jwthaparc (Aug 18, 2022)

daveb said:


> Re: 800 grit stones. I've used examples from JKI (jinzo), JNS and the King. IME all were good for setting up initial kasumi finish - prob by design. None were worth spit when trying to sharpen. The only 800 that's a sharpening stone is the Shapton Pro 1000. It will raise a burr on anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Never underestimate the suckiness of a rebranded stone from a knife company.


Idk I will always have a place in my heart for the old chosera 800.


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## Heckel7302 (Aug 18, 2022)

jwthaparc said:


> Idk I will always have a place in my heart for the old chosera 800.


Right there with you, though maybe that doesn’t count because everybody knows it’s really a 1200 grit stone.


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## Mr Kooby Shemayrew (Aug 18, 2022)

jwthaparc said:


> Idk I will always have a place in my heart for the old chosera 800.



For me it didn’t get much love in here but my second ever stone was a King 800/6000. I much enjoyed the 800 and still have high opinion of it. 

This thread is interesting for the fact that people can come to two very different opinions about the same unchanging object.


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## jwthaparc (Aug 20, 2022)

Mr Kooby Shemayrew said:


> For me it didn’t get much love in here but my second ever stone was a King 800/6000. I much enjoyed the 800 and still have high opinion of it.
> 
> This thread is interesting for the fact that people can come to two very different opinions about the same unchanging object.


I have noticed some combination stones seem to use a different formula for one grit than they for the single stone. I can't confirm that, and it's completely anecdotal, but it seems to me to be the case. 

Idk if that's how it is for the king 800, but idk. 

I honestly have liked pretty much all the king stones I have had. They're muddy, and dish, and the fine stones load, but I've had stones that do those things much worse than all the kings I've owned. Like the cerax 1000 I had. I personally liked my king 1000, and 1200 (also the king soft hyper 1000 but that's a different story) they seem to dish slower, and do the jobs I need them for well.


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