# #1 is Done - FINALLY!!



## Dave Martell

After many many many problems and a lot of learning curve and even more hard knocks I've finally got knife #1 finished and ready to go. Is it exactly the way I want it though? No - not quite - but it's as best as I can do for my first attempt at making a knife. 

A few of the issues....

1. Bolsters

I wanted to go with mokume bolsters but this just isn't going to happen. I'll use mokume in the future for sure but it's too great of a loss to keep experimenting with at the moment. 

On the plus side I've made my standard option (linen micarta) work just fine and is giving me just the look I wanted. This is what I had planned to use after the first 12 were done in mokume. 

I'm not so certain that I love the silver pin in the bolster though, any thoughts on this?



2. Edge Length

It started out as a 240mm but I snapped off a good bit of heal by mistake and had to shorten the blade as a result. It's now 233mm.


3. Choil/Bolster spacing

Due to the length shortening I had to adjust this area as well. Normally I would prefer a western bolster to be closer to the choil.


4. Logo/Markings

They didn't come out nearly as nice as I had hoped for. I did some practice runs which I really screwed up on so this is a huge improvement but still they're light. I guess not bad for a first though.



5. Tang 

The tang is a little too thick for my liking, it brings the weight back into the handle a bit too much. Fortunately the switch from mokume to micarta brought the balance point back out to 1" in from of the bolster - phew! 

Knife #2 can't be corrected for this either (scales are already on) but the rest will have thinned tangs from then on out.


So what do you think?


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## oivind_dahle

I think you did good 

The logo shouldn´t be underlined....


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## EdipisReks

looks good, Dave.


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## Jim

Woo! Looks great.


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## JohnnyChance

Well done Dave! I like the logo and the underlining, reminds me of 1950's logos and advertising.

The silver pin through the black linen looks okay, maybe a mosiac might look better?


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## unkajonet

Damned fine job! Looks great! And +1 on the logo.


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## El Pescador

Looking good Dave. I like the spalted maple.


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## SpikeC

Very cool! And that logo looks great!


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## HHH Knives

That's a really nice looking #1!! Great job Dave.


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## Dave Martell

Thanks for the kind words guys. 

It's funny about the logo as I anguished over this decision for ages and finally went with this design pretty much for the reason that Jonnychance noted why he liked it. Doing the logo design and actually marking the knife has been the hardest mental part for me by far.

So what about the silver pin in the bolster? I have some micarta pins on the way which will blend in better but I'm wondering if anyone likes the silver or if it's just a matter of that's OK....what's your preference? John mentioned a mosaic pin which I considered but didn't do on this one because the center handle pin is mosaic.


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## EdipisReks

i think the pin in the bolster is just fine. if the bolster is going to have a pin, i would prefer that it be silver. having it stand out makes it stand out less, if that makes sense.


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## kalaeb

Dave, that looks great! :thumbsup:

I personally like the pin in the bolster, but think it could be smaller. Maybe just an 3/16. 

Overall, very impressive.


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## l r harner

never had the balls for silver nic-silver or SS but not silver


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## Pensacola Tiger

Try one without any pin at all - just AcraGlas.


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## oivind_dahle

I hope I didnt offend you Dave.

I have no clue why you underline the logo, its so.....eh....1990.
Underlining is almost not used anymore. If you want to draw attention we in 2010 use *bold to show the importance*. But if you feel like underlining is the way to go you should do that. But as I think the font already draws attention, I have no idea why you underline things. *Things can get to much*, yet simple style is still the best. See Bill Burke and Devin


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## mhlee

I would prefer that the bolster is all black without the silver pin. Just MHO. 

Otherwise, it looks great! :thumbsup:

How did you end up grinding the knives?


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## apicius9

Not bad  I like te pin but also would likle to see a slightly smaller version and then decide. Mosaic pin would be too much. In a less busy handle, I can also see red liners and a red pin. 

Stefan


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## so_sleepy

I don't like the pin in the bolster and the micarta doesn't compliment the wood very well. Why not try a pinned stainless bolster?


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## Kyle

so_sleepy said:


> I don't like the pin in the bolster and the micarta doesn't compliment the wood very well. Why not try a pinned stainless bolster?


 
I think stainless or something similar would look better as well.

Dave, any chance that by, say, knife #19 you'll be able to offer mokume bolsters as an option?


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## bprescot

I also tend to prefer no pin. I don't know, the pin just makes the bolster look smaller ... or is it just me. Anyway, I viewed the below and your pic side by side and think I prefer the below.


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## Dave Martell

kalaeb said:


> I personally like the pin in the bolster, but think it could be smaller. Maybe just an 3/16.




It is 3/16" LOL


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## Dave Martell

No offense taken Oivind!

Keep the comments coming - I WANT feedback!


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## Dave Martell

Kyle said:


> I think stainless or something similar would look better as well.
> 
> Dave, any chance that by, say, knife #19 you'll be able to offer mokume bolsters as an option?




Mmmmmmmaybe! :tongue:


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## Dave Martell

Stefan I also thought red as well for liners but not the pins. I was also picturing copper liners and pins.


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## Dave Martell

bprescot said:


> I also tend to prefer no pin. I don't know, the pin just makes the bolster look smaller ... or is it just me. Anyway, I viewed the below and your pic side by side and think I prefer the below.


 

Nice photoshop Ben, I think I prefer this too.


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## Dave Martell

mhlee said:


> How did you end up grinding the knives?




The knives are triple beveled up the sides in what I can only find words to describe as "modified convex". They're damn near almost flat with the slightest of bevels ground and then blended. The bevels on the side of the blade are done very much like the Japanese grind their knives using only applied pressure to set the bevels. When I run my fingers down the blade I feel a slight convex but when using a straight edge (spine to edge) I see the bevels clearly.


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## Dave Martell

Oh I almost forgot - the best part is how sharp this thing is and how easy it sharpened - VERY nice on both counts. :bliss:


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## oivind_dahle

Well you now have my opinion. I would like a more personal logo. Martell is for me a cognac...

I would like "Dave" or "Dave Martell" 

I like the font, but not the glowing. Cool D


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## monty

Love the logo. Keep it as is. The knife looks great, too. Well done!!


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## monty

Dave Martell said:


> The knives are triple beveled up the sides in what I can only find words to describe as "modified convex". They're damn near almost flat with the slightest of bevels ground and then blended. The bevels on the side of the blade are done very much like the Japanese grind their knives using only applied pressure to set the bevels. When I run my fingers down the blade I feel a slight convex but when using a straight edge (spine to edge) I see the bevels clearly.


 
How do you suggest folks sharpen? Is it possible to reproduce the three bevels, or do you suspect most folks will cut right through that and leave a typical bevel(s)? Or would you suggest convexing?


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## mainaman

Dave this looks great.


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## WildBoar

Congrats, Dave! I think the handle looks too busy with that pin in the bolster, though.


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## Dave Martell

monty said:


> How do you suggest folks sharpen? Is it possible to reproduce the three bevels, or do you suspect most folks will cut right through that and leave a typical bevel(s)? Or would you suggest convexing?




There's only one edge bevel. The three bevels are up the side of the knife and will not come into play with sharpening.


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## tk59

I have no business commenting but I can't say I like the micarta either and aesthetically, odd numbers are generally preferred for most things. If you want to put a noticeable pin in the bolster like that maybe it would work if you lost on of the other pins in the handle.


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## Marko Tsourkan

Looking good, Dave.

I wouldn't put any marking on the blade besides' maker's mark. Most people who will buy your knives will know what steel you used and most probably won't care if it cryo treated or not, as long as the performance lives up to the expectation. 

I would also use micarta pins in the bolster, so they are as least visible as possible. Otherwise, the handle looks too busy taking away from the wood figure. Damn, I just saw that David posted the same thing, almost word for word. Funny. 

M


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## monty

Dave Martell said:


> There's only one edge bevel. The three bevels are up the side of the knife and will not come into play with sharpening.



Now that I think about it, we covered this in your class (if I could find a good emoticon for shame, I'd insert it here). I misunderstood your post. My bad!


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## Line cooked

That is sweet knife and congrats on finishing # 1...I am not sure how much my opinin is worth especially considering I am a huge fan of most of the work I see on this forum but I like the look without the bolster pin.


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## Dave Martell

Well I think it's pretty clear that most don't care for the silver bolster pin and that's OK by me since it wasn't in the cards anyway. I had already ordered a boatload of black micarta pinstock so that's the direction I'll be going. It's real great to hear everyone's opinion on this though.

Oh BTW, I'm 100% certain that I'll use different materials for bolsters in the future but the time being micarta is going to be the stuff I'm running with.


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## EdipisReks

Marko Tsourkan said:


> I wouldn't put any marking on the blade besides' maker's mark. Most people who will buy your knives will know what steel you used and most probably won't care if it cryo treated or not, as long as the performance lives up to the expectation.



i agree, less is more.


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## mr drinky

Dave Martell said:


> Oh BTW, I'm 100% certain that I'll use different materials for bolsters in the future but the time being micarta is going to be the stuff I'm running with.



I think you are just playing with us, and in the future you will offer some re-bolstering coupons once you show off some super sexy mokume bolster 

k.


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## Dave Martell

mr drinky said:


> I think you are just playing with us, and in the future you will offer some re-bolstering coupons once you show off some super sexy mokume bolster
> 
> k.




:idea2:


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## 99Limited

I think your logo with that font and being underlined looks good. It would look even better if it was laser etched and that's it, no coloring of the lettering.


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## bprescot

Yeah. I like the logo in that font. I _would_, however, get rid of the "cryo treated" and "O1" on the back. That's just me though.


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## Dave Martell

I'm 100% cool with not adding the stuff on the backside - less work is OK.


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## mhlee

bprescot said:


> I _would_, however, get rid of the "cryo treated" and "O1" on the back. That's just me though.


 
lus1:

We KNOW it's O1 and Cryo treated. :razz:


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## Dave Martell

What if I switch to white#1 and don't use cryo....how will you know which is which in 10 years time?


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## mano

Dave,

It made me smile. 

Leave out the bolster pin and cryo.

Unless it's pre-sold or you intend to keep it how about auctioning it off?


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## mhlee

Dave Martell said:


> What if I switch to white#1 and don't use cryo....how will you know which is which in 10 years time?



:slaphead:

Smart*ss.

:chin: 

I will look forward to that day! :crossfingers:


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## Dave Martell

Michael, I grew up thinking that my middle name was smartass since my Dad called me that so much, he always said that I've got an answer for everything.


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## Dave Martell

mano said:


> Dave,
> 
> It made me smile.
> 
> Leave out the bolster pin and cryo.
> 
> Unless it's pre-sold or you intend to keep it how about auctioning it off?




This one was already sold but I offered the customer out of it yet he chose to stay with it - such loyal customers I have! :thumbsup:


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## sudsy9977

oivind_dahle said:


> I hope I didnt offend you Dave.
> 
> I have no clue why you underline the logo, its so.....eh....1990.
> Underlining is almost not used anymore. If you want to draw attention we in 2010 use *bold to show the importance*. But if you feel like underlining is the way to go you should do that. But as I think the font already draws attention, I have no idea why you underline things. *Things can get to much*, yet simple style is still the best. See Bill Burke and Devin


 





simple is best i think also but i don't know if i would pick devin or bill's mark as a good example of that.....ryan


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## SteveD

Hey Dave sure looks good to me. I happen to like the pin. Can't wait to see more.






steve:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Pensacola Tiger

I like your maker's mark, but agree that the steel type and treatment are distracting.

For identification purposes, though, continue to serialize your knives. It would be nice when knife #116 is sold as part of an estate sale in 2037, the new owner can trace the knife back to when it was made in early 2012, and see it was made from triple-quenched 52100 steel.


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## tgraypots

I like the bolster, especially with the dark liner and the dark areas in the wood. Underlined logo is cool too. Steel type on the blade and 4th. pin, not so much.


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## obtuse

I like the steel type, It's nice to know it's cryo too.


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## kalaeb

Dave Martell said:


> It is 3/16" LOL



Doh! It looks bigger because it is so shiny.


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## ecchef

JohnnyChance said:


> Well done Dave! I like the logo and the underlining, reminds me of 1950's logos and advertising.


 
I totally agree with this. Don't change it. This is all the info you need on the blade.

However, I really don't like the micarta bolsters at all. If it absolutely has to be, then maybe two small pins, top & bottom, like Pierre or Phil Wilson does. Maybe if it was faux ivory...?

You really can't beat the look of mokume. I'd be willing to cover the cost of 'mistakes' on mine to keep that option. 

Looks great otherwise. :my2cents:


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## stevenStefano

I think this looks awesome and I basically agree with everyone. Numbering all the knives is a great idea. Is your name silk screened or engraved? I think proper engraved logos are sort of a sign of quality when I buy knives


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## ecchef

I stand self corrected. Martell logo & serial numbers. 
If you stamped or engraved the steel type on the tang spine, now that would be the sh!t. :idea2:


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## Dave Martell

The logo is etched using chemical + electric current. It basically burns the mark in like a branding iron would on a cow's backside. The look and feel is that of stamping. 


All points being noted fellas - thanks for the feedback!


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## SpikeC

The idea of putting the steel type on the tang is appealing to me. If the knife is ever thinned the info will still be there, and it is subtle butt clear.


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## Marko Tsourkan

To get it on the tang, I think it would have to be laser engraved after the handle is finished, which adds to the cost (engraving, shipping both ways, waiting time). I also doubt that the knife would even need thinning all the way to the spine, unless you completely re-profile and make a smaller knife out of it. 

If etching steel type on a blade, *O1* would look better, than *Cryo Treated O1 Steel*


M


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## Dave Martell

Yeah if these knives need thinning then I'm quitting right now!


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## so_sleepy

I don't think it adds anything to etch the steel type. 

A serial number might be ok. You could eve embed date of manufacture, steel type and other info in it. 

However, I think less is better. Stick to the maker's mark on the knife and send a birth certificate along with each one with all the details.


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## ecchef

so_sleepy said:


> Stick to the maker's mark on the knife and send a birth certificate along with each one with all the details.




Yeah... stick to the Makers Mark......or George Dickle! :wink:

A birth certificate? Like a Cabbage Patch Kid?!? You're scaring me Sleepy. :scared1:


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## kalaeb

I don't think a "birth certificate"/certificate of authenticty is a bad idea. Pierre did it with one that I got from him and I thought it looked nice and was informational.


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## dough

ecchef said:


> I totally agree with this. Don't change it. This is all the info you need on the blade.
> 
> However, I really don't like the micarta bolsters at all. If it absolutely has to be, then maybe two small pins, top & bottom, like Pierre or Phil Wilson does. Maybe if it was faux ivory...?
> 
> You really can't beat the look of mokume. I'd be willing to cover the cost of 'mistakes' on mine to keep that option.
> 
> Looks great otherwise. :my2cents:


 +1
yea micarta bolster is not my favorite... maybe a different type of wood or faux ivory like had been mentioned... i dont know.

the wood on that handle looks great though.


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## mhenry

Beautiful knife Dave!!! Like everything except the pinned bolster


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## oivind_dahle

wrong post


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## Kyle

Would it be possible to have options available for those that have ordered a knife? Maybe have a couple bolster materials available that you feel comfortable working with and go from there? So after the blade is ground out you can ask the person ordering the knife if they want stainless or micarta bolster, with or without pin, etc. Not sure if that's getting too complicated or not but just a thought.


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## Dave Martell

Hi Kyle,
I'd love to say yes but at this point I'm not sure I can do that. I'm trying some new things on the side so let's see where I go from here. 

One of the things that isn't evident as a problem is balance. A metal bolster adds a lot of weight to what is already a handle heavy style of knife (western) and then add in a thin blade grind and heavy stabilized woods and the bolster choice can really make a difference in how the knife feels and works for you. I'm very concerned about this so the issue of having troubles fitting metal bolsters is only part of the problem that I'm trying to figure out.

I am very sorry if this black bolster option isn't exactly what you're looking for though, I really want you to get a look that suits your tastes. If it's at all possible I'll accommodate where I can.

Dave


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## Dave Martell

I just mounted black micarta bolsters to knife #2 using a black pin, we'll see soon how this looks.


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## obtuse

I wonder if it's possible to remove more material from the tang (drill more holes) or material from the scales (hollow them out) to bring the balance forward. I think drilling some big holes in the tang Between the bolster Pins might be a possible solution.


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## Dave Martell

This gets brought up in knifemaking forums often and the consensus seems to be that the weight of the extra epoxy being held by the holes with be nearly the same as the steel removed. I've obviously never tested that so I'm just repeating what I've heard. 

The better way seem to be narrowing the tang which is what I'm doing.


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## obtuse

That makes sense. How many knives do you have on order?


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## Kyle

Dave Martell said:


> Hi Kyle,
> I'd love to say yes but at this point I'm not sure I can do that. I'm trying some new things on the side so let's see where I go from here.
> 
> One of the things that isn't evident as a problem is balance. A metal bolster adds a lot of weight to what is already a handle heavy style of knife (western) and then add in a thin blade grind and heavy stabilized woods and the bolster choice can really make a difference in how the knife feels and works for you. I'm very concerned about this so the issue of having troubles fitting metal bolsters is only part of the problem that I'm trying to figure out.
> 
> I am very sorry if this black bolster option isn't exactly what you're looking for though, I really want you to get a look that suits your tastes. If it's at all possible I'll accommodate where I can.
> 
> Dave


 
Even though I mentioned that a metal bolster would look more appealing, it's not a huge concern either. I'm just brainstorming here. But I'm not concerned with little details. Honestly, when you posted the picture of the knife with the exposed pin with the mokume bolsters I didn't even notice an issue with it. If you would have shipped me that knife I would have never thought the pin was a problem.


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## bprescot

Actually, the exposed screw kind of reminds me of the intentional bolster pin. In person, I'm sure there's absolutely no confusing them, but in photos it's not that far off!


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## Dave Martell

I've heard that from a few people but yeah if you saw it in person it was pretty bad.


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## Dave Martell

obtuse said:


> How many knives do you have on order?




I'm afraid to count but I believe it's over 20.....maybe 25. :eek2:


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## obtuse

Yikes! You'll be a grind master by knife 25!


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## Eamon Burke

Dave Martell said:


> This gets brought up in knifemaking forums often and the consensus seems to be that the weight of the extra epoxy being held by the holes with be nearly the same as the steel removed. I've obviously never tested that so I'm just repeating what I've heard.


 

This seems like a problem with a good solution. Maybe remove entire cavities of wood, and fill them in with something lightweight and permanent? It doesn't have to be pretty, it's the interior. Maybe Great Stuff? With the low level of abuse kitchen knives see, this seems solvable.


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## SpikeC

I have a problem with the idea that the epoxy would weigh the same as the steel. Given that steel has over 7 times the specific gravity of steel, any steel that is replaced with epoxy is going to reduce the weight. As most wood has similar weight as epoxy, maybe that is what they are talking about.


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## Audi's or knives

Dave, looks excellent. Like others have said I prefer the look of the pin-less bolster. Logo looks good, I'd skip the steel info on there to save time/work. All in all it looks like one hell of a knife and if it performs as good as it looks we have another great knife option. 

What is your expected timeframe to finish each knife from this point on?


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## apicius9

johndoughy said:


> This seems like a problem with a good solution. Maybe remove entire cavities of wood, and fill them in with something lightweight and permanent? It doesn't have to be pretty, it's the interior. Maybe Great Stuff? With the low level of abuse kitchen knives see, this seems solvable.


 

You could fill the wood cavities with your nasty styrofoam thingies instead of sending them to people 

Stefan


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## Dave Martell

Audi's or knives said:


> Dave, looks excellent. Like others have said I prefer the look of the pin-less bolster. Logo looks good, I'd skip the steel info on there to save time/work. All in all it looks like one hell of a knife and if it performs as good as it looks we have another great knife option.
> 
> What is your expected timeframe to finish each knife from this point on?




I'm reluctant to say....or even guess. 

Thanks for the feedback!


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## Dave Martell

apicius9 said:


> You could fill the wood cavities with your nasty styrofoam thingies instead of sending them to people
> 
> Stefan


 

That's it.....now I'm saving them up.....all for you again. :razz:


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## Burl Source

oivind_dahle said:


> I think you did good
> 
> The logo shouldn´t be underlined....


 
I thought that was a link.
Kept clicking on it but nothing happened.

Beautiful knife Dave.
If I could give an opinion from a cosmetic point of view?
The Martell & # marking look good, like a handmade limited edition.
But.......the cryo treated and O1 steel markings start to give it the look of a factory production knife.

I am probably way off base, but that was my first impression.

I like the plain silver pin in the bolster and only 1 mosaic pin in the handle.


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## Vertigo

apicius9 said:


> You could fill the wood cavities with your nasty styrofoam thingies instead of sending them to people
> 
> Stefan


I sent him my last knife packed in luxurious, high end lime green packing peanuts, and the bastard had the _unmitigated audacity_ to return the knife with _his crappy ones_ mixed into mine.

I was appalled.


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## PierreRodrigue

Vertigo said:


> I sent him my last knife packed in luxurious, high end lime green packing peanuts, and the bastard had the _unmitigated audacity_ to return the knife with _his crappy ones_ mixed into mine.
> 
> I was appalled.


 

I swear! That man has no limits to what he'll try to get away with! Blending peanuts! :tease:irate2: Gotta be the hair cut!


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## Jim

Like any other "pusher" he cuts the good stuff with junk to stretch it!


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## Dave Martell

:lmao:


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