# Difference between a Sujihiki and a carving knife



## Fantality (Apr 10, 2015)

Are there any differences between a sujihiki and a carving knife? Or are they essentially the same knives with just Japanese and English names?


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## wind88 (Apr 10, 2015)

Suji tend to be thinner than the euro slicing knife.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 10, 2015)

Sujihiki or slicing knife:





Carving knife:


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## Fantality (Apr 10, 2015)

The carving knife I am looking at, which is a mundial 5100 carving knife, looks the same as the sujihiki picture you posted.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 10, 2015)

Fantality said:


> The carving knife I am looking at, which is a mundial 5100 carving knife, looks the same as the sujihiki picture you posted.



So? Mundial is confused, perhaps. 

The Sabatier carving knife has the same upswept tip as the Bu-Re-Zen I posted a picture of. 

Maybe the only rational conclusion is that sujihiki = slicer = carving knife?


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## ecchef (Apr 10, 2015)

I always associate a carving knife with an upswept tip or yatagan style blade, and would be utilized FOH for tableside service. 
A 'slicer' would be more like a suji, and be used primarily BOH in my opinion just like what Rick posted.


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## Fantality (Apr 11, 2015)

Lol I see. So if the only real difference between a Sujihiki/slicing knife and a carving knife is the tip, then I will give this mundial "carving" knife a try. Whether mundial is confused or not is less important to me than having a straight pointy tip on my slicing/carving or whatever this knife is identified as. I'm just looking for a knife that has a thinner profile than a chef's knife. 

I'm going to buy the following knives tomorrow. The only reason I haven't yet is because my wallet is in my car and I'm too lazy to go get it right now lol...



Might as well ask for your opinions on the brand and the knives I picked while I wait. 

Mundial 5100 8" carving knife:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002LXWB6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Mundial 5100 santoku knife: 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002LXW98/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

PS- just noticed I am 7 posts away from being granted the authority to create threads in the marketplace. Exciting!


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## daveb (Apr 11, 2015)

I thought I had read this once before, some tired brain cells (and google) found: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/864371/ Didn't see anything I would disagree with.

Opinions on Mudial? I think they are among the worst knives ever made for retail sale. A GF won a set, they are crap Look like crap. Duller than an Al Gore speach. Tried sharpening a chef and a slicer and concluded they are not worth the wear on my stones. Not even the DMTs. Bought her a Suisin Western. She still won't let me throw them away.

Hope your experience is better than mine.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 11, 2015)

If you must buy inexpensive knives, at least buy decent inexpensive knives. A few years ago I picked up a Mundial at T.J. Maxx just to see what it was like. I should have just thrown away the $20 bill. Soft stainless that wouldn't hold a decent edge and a fingerguard that guaranteed problems with sharpening down the road. The fit and finish was execrable. I got $2 for it at a garage sale and felt guilty for taking anything for it. 

For a little less, you can get a Victorinox 7" santoku and 8" slicer. Better steel, better handles and at least some resale value if you want to sell them in the future.

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/victorinox-forschner-fibrox/hollow-edge-santoku-knife-p19770

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/victorinox-forschner-fibrox/carving-knife-p110638

Rick


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## chinacats (Apr 11, 2015)

Good thing you left your wallet in your car...you should listen to these guys ^^.


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## daveb (Apr 11, 2015)

Mercer. The bane of culinary students everywhere. In your quest for POS knives for a nickle don't know how you've missed them.


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## aboynamedsuita (Apr 11, 2015)

I've found that with knives (as with most things) you get what you pay for, however there are always a few exceptions. I'm thinking back to the Shun 7" Asian chef knife post; why not invest in a half decent knife opposed to buying multiple low end ones?


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## cheflarge (Apr 11, 2015)

The only knives, mentioned in this thread, worth thinking about would be the Victorinox/Forschner. Pretty much the only brand I used (for about thirty years) before I discovered Japanese/custom knives. Never cared much for the German style with their big ass bolsters & finger guards.


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## aboynamedsuita (Apr 11, 2015)

cheflarge said:


> ...Never cared much for the German style with their big ass bolsters & finger guards.



Me too, and this comes from someone who's cut himself multiple times at the heel/choil on knives without them during the learning curve transition lol


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## brainsausage (Apr 11, 2015)

have to agree, Mundial is no good. Victorinox is one of the best bangs for your buck though, especially their foodservice oriented products. 

In regards to the slicing vs carver- I seem to recall reading somewheres that the upturned tip came into favor quite some time back in regards to serving, as it was considered rude to aim the point of a knife at your dining companions.


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## Fantality (Apr 11, 2015)

I am kinda hesitant on buying good knives right away because I'm still learning how to sharpen knives. I don't want to get a nice knife and mess it up. I got some nice knives lined up for when I'm confident in my sharpening skills. Until then, I plan on experimenting and practicing on less expensive ones.


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## tcmx3 (Apr 11, 2015)

Fantality said:


> I am kinda hesitant on buying good knives right away because I'm still learning how to sharpen knives. I don't want to get a nice knife and mess it up. I got some nice knives lined up for when I'm confident in my sharpening skills. Until then, I plan on experimenting and practicing on less expensive ones.



If you go slow and pay attention you're not going to do too much damage.

But, if you insist on going inexpensive, get the Victorinox.


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## psfred (Apr 11, 2015)

I suspect the main differences between a sujihiki and a carving knife are profile, both are intended for slicing and the sujihiki is a "western" knife, not a traditional Japanese style.

I will not speculate on the origin of the upturned tip, but that appears to be the main difference. I feel it limits the effective length of the blade quite a bit, but that is just my personal opinion. 

I would expect a sujihiki to have more taper (to a finer spine at the tip) and a thinner blade, too, but that's only because those are japanese knife characteristics in opposition to "German" knives that don't usually have much taper, or my Chicago Cutlery slicer which has no distal taper at all, same thickness down to the primary bevel at the tip. Upturned tip was blunt when I got it, too, but we aren't talking great knives here.

Peter


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## chinacats (Apr 12, 2015)

Peter, I have to disagree...one of the most beautiful full distal tapered knives I own is a turn off the century Henckels. My old Sabatiers have really sweet taper as well.

Cheers


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## PushCut (Apr 12, 2015)

Fantality said:


> I am kinda hesitant on buying good knives right away because I'm still learning how to sharpen knives. I don't want to get a nice knife and mess it up. I got some nice knives lined up for when I'm confident in my sharpening skills. Until then, I plan on experimenting and practicing on less expensive ones.




Granted you should not be buying $300+ knives mirror finish knives, or damascus pattern blades or custom handles or custom blades at this time. But for your own good, please buy something, even a Tojiro or Fujiwara, that has a blade that will take and hold and edge. I still own an ugly carbon Tojiro that is about 100x times better than a Mercer. What you're doing now is buying a pile of thick knives with bad steel. Then when you decide to buy some decent knives, you will need to replace EVERY single one of them. How economical is that?

#Too poor to buy cheap
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=714640
https://www.google.com/webhp?source...1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=i'm too poor to buy cheap


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## natto (Apr 12, 2015)

PushCut said:


> #Too poor to buy cheap
> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=714640
> https://www.google.com/webhp?source...1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=i'm too poor to buy cheap



lus1:

On the other hand, I am looking for affordable knives:O.


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## psfred (Apr 12, 2015)

Chinacats:

They made better knives then, eh? Old Hickory and Forgecraft knives from 60 years ago were much thinner and had more taper than what I've seen in modern "high end" knives on the German model, which seem to have been designed to survive horrible abuse, not to cut things...

No personal experience with Sabatiers, alas.

Peter


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## seattle_lee (Apr 12, 2015)

redisburning said:


> If you go slow and pay attention you're not going to do too much damage.
> 
> But, if you insist on going inexpensive, get the Victorinox.



Absolutely go with the Victorinox. You will learn much more about sharpening, much faster, by working with a knife that will take a good edge.


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## Fantality (Apr 12, 2015)

PushCut said:


> Granted you should not be buying $300+ knives mirror finish knives, or damascus pattern blades or custom handles or custom blades at this time. But for your own good, please buy something, even a Tojiro or Fujiwara, that has a blade that will take and hold and edge. I still own an ugly carbon Tojiro that is about 100x times better than a Mercer. What you're doing now is buying a pile of thick knives with bad steel. Then when you decide to buy some decent knives, you will need to replace EVERY single one of them. How economical is that?
> 
> #Too poor to buy cheap
> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=714640
> https://www.google.com/webhp?source...1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=i'm too poor to buy cheap



I am planning on picking up a few tojiro dp's. Probably a 240 gyuto first and then a 270 Sujihiki or a santoku in the future. someone on here said tojiro dp is hands down the best budget knife to practice and learn on though I don't know how true this is.


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## daveb (Apr 12, 2015)

Fantality said:


> I am planning on picking up ......



You know if you had a knife for every time you've said that - you would have knives.:scratchhead:


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## wind88 (Apr 12, 2015)

Just wondering if suji would be the next best alternative for just occasionally slicing some sashimi therefore owning a yanagiba cannot be justified.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 12, 2015)

wind88 said:


> Just wondering if suji would be the next best alternative for just occasionally slicing some sashimi therefore owning a yanagiba cannot be justified.



A sujihiki will work, but the yanagiba is preferred because the edge angle is half that of a sujihiki. The weight of a yanagiba also makes slicing easier.


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## ecchef (Apr 12, 2015)

daveb said:


> You know if you had a knife for every time you've said that - you would have knives.:scratchhead:


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## Fantality (Apr 13, 2015)

daveb said:


> You know if you had a knife for every time you've said that - you would have knives.:scratchhead:



And I do have knives. I already picked up the henckles and the shun.


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## daveb (Apr 14, 2015)

I forgot the Henckels. That's the one well reviewed on Lemerdeculinaire.com?


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## gic (Apr 14, 2015)

If you have access to a Costco get the tramontina pros made in Brazil they are selling there for peanuts (a 10 and 8" chef) for like $12 for example. They have a very similar profile to the Victorinox and sharpen up just fine...


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## psfred (Apr 14, 2015)

You won't go wrong with a Tojiro DP. inexpensive, take a fabulous edge and hold it well, and similar enough to Western knives to make the transition easy. 

Very plain, but I'm delighted with mine and all I've done with it so far is touch up the edge a bit.

Peter


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## aboynamedsuita (Apr 14, 2015)

wind88 said:


> Just wondering if suji would be the next best alternative for just occasionally slicing some sashimi therefore owning a yanagiba cannot be justified.



Conversely, I'm wondering if using a Yanagi as a Suji for general slicing (such as cooked meats) not just raw fish and/or sushi, etc. would be okay? When I ordered my Kensaki Yanagi from Watanabe, Shinichi mentioned that they're intended for slicing raw fish, so I wouldn't want to be too rough on it. 

Thanks


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## mkriggen (Apr 14, 2015)

> owning a yanagiba cannot be justified



Justified? We don't need no stinking justification...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:gunner::gun1:


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## Fantality (Apr 14, 2015)

psfred said:


> You won't go wrong with a Tojiro DP. inexpensive, take a fabulous edge and hold it well, and similar enough to Western knives to make the transition easy.
> 
> Very plain, but I'm delighted with mine and all I've done with it so far is touch up the edge a bit.
> 
> Peter



Are all the rave reviews of tojiro dp directed at the gyuto only? Or are all tojiro dp line-ups equally good? For example, the tojiro dp Sujihiki. 

Lastly, how are tojiro's other line-ups aside from the dp line? I noticed they had tojiro shiro-ko kasumi yanagibas on Amazon that were in a comfortable price-range for me to get as my first yanagiba and go ham on it practicing and experimenting different techniques of sharpening and cutting.


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## chinacats (Apr 14, 2015)

Fantality said:


> Lastly, how are tojiro's other line-ups aside from the dp line? I noticed they had tojiro shiro-ko kasumi yanagibas on Amazon that were in a comfortable price-range for me to get as my first yanagiba and go ham on it practicing and experimenting different techniques of sharpening and cutting.



Is this a joke?


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## tcmx3 (Apr 14, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Is this a joke?



some people deserve the ignore list.


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## daveb (Apr 15, 2015)

Perhaps the question would be better posed on Amazon? They may know more about a $20 yanagiba there. You don't seem to like the answers you're getting here.


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## Fantality (Apr 15, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Is this a joke?


Why? I don't understand your aggression. 



daveb said:


> Perhaps the question would be better posed on Amazon? They may know more about a $20 yanagiba there. You don't seem to like the answers you're getting here.


This knife is $80 for 270 and $120 for 300...


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## brainsausage (Apr 15, 2015)

Fantality said:


> Why? I don't understand your aggression.
> 
> 
> This knife is $80 for 270 and $120 for 300...



The problem thus far is that you seem to want people to simply respond to your threads. You don't really want any true responses though. Otherwise you wouldn't completely disregard the individuals that have done their utmost to help with your ever changing new taste of: 'is this good enough and can I get it cheaperer?'


'Cheaperer' is a word of my own design. I prefer not to use it unless provoked.


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## Fantality (Apr 15, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Is this a joke?





brainsausage said:


> The problem thus far is that you seem to want people to simply respond to your threads. You don't really want any true responses though. Otherwise you wouldn't completely disregard the individuals that have done their utmost to help with your ever changing new taste of: 'is this good enough and can I get it cheaperer?'
> 
> 
> 'Cheaperer' is a word of my own design. I prefer not to use it unless provoked.



I sort of understand what you're saying. The thing is, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. You guys are probably all experts and I understand the logic behind "too poor to buy cheap" and the qt, or the lack thereof, on budget single bevel knives such as yanagiba's. Your advices have not gone in one ear and come out the other. It's just that after seeing jon's video of sharpening a single bevel knife.. Sharpening the two bevels on the knife, doing uraoish, etc.. I'm not confident that I'll be able to do well on my first knife. Plus, the sushi chefs at my restaurant are all highly recommending that I go with a cheap yanagiba for my first. Another thing is, the stones at the restaurant aren't that well maintained and I don't have my own stones yet. Just the thought of sharpening an expensive yanagi on those stones aren't all that pleasing. 

I do appreciate all your advices. 

I have decided against the tojiro yanagi. I will go see some yanagi's at this local Asian store tomorrow, per my sushi chefs' recommendation, and will come to a conclusion between them and the uraku. 

Ps- idk if that's what chinacats was commenting about


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 15, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Good thing you left your wallet in your car...you should listen to these guys ^^.



:rofl2:

First you have to get a couple stones. Sets can be a good route JKI, Dave Martell. Do not be intimidated about learning. Both Double bevel & single bevel Jon's vids are what you need to get started. Plus you work in a Sushi place you need a Yanagiba been down this route before, 200.00 for a straight white steel yanagi is cheap for what you get. That WS will get razor sharp in a snap & encourage the learning process.

Buying cheap soft stainless to learn on does not make since a waste of money & as a beginner at sharpening you don't need the extra frustration of crappy steel.


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