# Ohira renge suita - fair price?



## Nick112 (Jun 1, 2019)

hi all, 
Im looking to buy my first natural and want to buy a nice first stone and eye pleasing stone. 

You experienced guys, im based in Eu, given the offering in eu and no added taxes or shipping (i pay vat ofc)

Are these stones fair priced? And which one would you pick and why? (For sharpening ao/sg knives)
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/ohira-range-suita-lv-3-5-a1814/

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/ohira-range-suita-lv-3-5-a1815/

Thanks in advance


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## childermass (Jun 3, 2019)

I for my part would not buy either of them as my first stone because I would not want to buy a generally overpriced stone, like all Ohira Suita are, without knowing what I really want. Sure, you can always resell a stone if you don’t like it, but you will inevitably loose money in that process.
Apart from that very personal statement I think given Maxim‘s usual prices these are nice priced given their size although still pretty expensive.
If I had to, I think I would take the first one of the two, because of the location and orientation of the lines. If you ever have to dig these in the future because they become toxic, it will be easier to not get the blade caught in there than in the two that run around the middle of stone number two.
As far as sharpening goes, both stones will most likely perform similar on carbon steel knives.


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## Nick112 (Jun 3, 2019)

Thanks for taking your time to reply. I do understand one pay quite a bit for the aestetiques and that the stone is rare, I guess I can get the same sharpening properties with a cheaper asymetric stone.


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## childermass (Jun 3, 2019)

Ohira Suita are not really that rare compared to Suita from other mines, but there is a huge hype about them, hence the high prices. And yes, it’s true that clean shaped stones tend to be higher in price, but there are also stones with odd shapes that can sell for more, a lot depends on how clean they are as well. What I was trying to say is that you can buy Suita stones from different mines with similar sharpening properties and size for a fraction of the price .


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## Matus (Jun 3, 2019)

Yes, Ohira Suita stones have been hyped up, but they are super pleasant to use and also very beautiful.

Regarding the seller - JNS does not sell cheap stones by any stretch of an imagination, but Maksim tests all stones he sells and you can rely on him for getting a top quality stones. 

And if you take the effort of checking the prices of Ohira Suita stones on places like buyee you will find out, that nice looking ones are no cheaper than from JNS - just you have no warranty that you will get a food quality stone.

So unless you manage to get one cheaper from a friend or some experienced KKF member, than - if you really want one - bite the bullet and get it from Maksim.


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## Matus (Jun 3, 2019)

The only reason why I have not bought the first of the two is that I already have one


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## childermass (Jun 3, 2019)

Matus said:


> The only reason why I have not bought the first of the two is that I already have one
> 
> View attachment 54236
> 
> View attachment 54237



And one of the coolest around I want to add [emoji41].


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## musicman980 (Jun 3, 2019)

Matus said:


> ... just you have no warranty that you will get a food quality stone.



Those Ohiras are scrumptious aren’t they!


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## PalmRoyale (Jun 3, 2019)

Ohira suitas are nice stones but there are stones that are just as good or better if you don't care what mine or layer it came from. I would also look into a namito or tomae if I were you. As for Buyee (Yahoo Auctions), prices have gone up a lot. Stones that would have sold for something like €250 now fetch €350 or more. A nice suita from Yahoo Auctions will cost you at least €400 so if you're new to this I would buy from Maksim.


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## Matus (Jun 3, 2019)

I agree with the above, but outside the Ohira Suita club it is often hard to find a stone in a similar hardness/grit range and few sellers give a meaningful description. On top of that many stones are just too hard/fine to make a usable finishers on double bevel kitchen knives - especially for beginners.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 9, 2019)

Guys, what does it mean when a stone goes toxic?


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## Migraine (Jun 9, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> Guys, what does it mean when a stone goes toxic?



I've never heard it phrased that way ("goes toxic") but a toxic line or inclusion in a stone is one which is made up of a material harder/coarser than the stone which can scratch/damage the blade. I'm not an expert but that's what I've gathered from here.


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## PalmRoyale (Jun 9, 2019)

The above is correct. It can even be an entire thin horizontal layer of toxic material that's sandwiched in between good stone layers. That's very rare though.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 10, 2019)

PalmRoyale said:


> The above is correct. It can even be an entire thin horizontal layer of toxic material that's sandwiched in between good stone layers. That's very rare though.


Thanks. I'm edging forward to taking the jnat leap, but it feels expensive and terrifying and I don't have enough knives to sharpen, really, to warrant it yet.


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## Nick112 (Jun 10, 2019)

Hi yes I ageee, I kind of read about the feeling and feedback using jnat and also the edge you can achieve. I also agree its to expensive to justify, but I kind of talked me into that I will get most of the money back if I buy a stone that becomes rarer and rarer (and is in demand), and I have to see the cost of transactions and the bit of the stone that will disappear from sharpening. And also of course, I enjoy the ritual of sharpening and am curious of always improving.


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## Slipstenar (Jun 11, 2019)

Hi all,

I have some good pictures of "toxic" stuff in natural stones. The second picture showing the holes only doesnt need to be toxic, those can be some cooking holes made of gases boiling up through the sediment.













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__ Slipstenar
__ Jun 11, 2019


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 12, 2019)

Slipstenar said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have some good pictures of "toxic" stuff in natural stones. The second picture showing the holes only doesnt need to be toxic, those can be some cooking holes made of gases boiling up through the sediment.
> 
> ...


So what do you do when you get these kinds of toxic inclusions? These aren't cheap or returnable items after all.


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## childermass (Jun 12, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> So what do you do when you get these kinds of toxic inclusions? These aren't cheap or returnable items after all.



Your most common option then is to take a nail or any other pointy metal device and dig the inclusions by scratching them out.
There is always the possibility that a stone holds toxic inclusions that reveal over time, Suita stones more so than stones from other layers.


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 12, 2019)

childermass said:


> Your most common option then is to take a nail or any other pointy metal device and dig the inclusions by scratching them out.
> There is always the possibility that a stone holds toxic inclusions that reveal over time, Suita stones more so than stones from other layers.


I really want a jnat, but the depth of knowledge required is terrifying. There's also sealing, creating a nice base for uneven bases, totally different finishes depending on what stone you get and on and on and on. Terror.


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## childermass (Jun 12, 2019)

Yes I know this is pretty overwhelming in the beginning and it doesn’t get any better the more you get to know. But in the end this is part of that game and a little thrill in life is always welcome.
A positive thing is that as part of this community you have lots of experienced people around to guide and help you along the way.


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## Slipstenar (Jun 12, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> So what do you do when you get these kinds of toxic inclusions? These aren't cheap or returnable items after all.



Well lets say like this, if the seller doesnt accept returns you should choose someone else.. A reputable seller should accept a return of the stone if it just has been tested and that it was not for the liking of the customer.


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## Badgertooth (Jun 13, 2019)

You could test the hell out of a stone and not be able to predict a toxic layer. It would be an inordinately generous vendor that accepts a return on a stone that later in life reveals hidden toxicity


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## lemeneid (Jun 13, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> I really want a jnat, but the depth of knowledge required is terrifying. There's also sealing, creating a nice base for uneven bases, totally different finishes depending on what stone you get and on and on and on. Terror.





DisconnectedAG said:


> I really want a jnat, but the depth of knowledge required is terrifying. There's also sealing, creating a nice base for uneven bases, totally different finishes depending on what stone you get and on and on and on. Terror.


My momma always said, “*Life was like a box of chocolates*. You never know what you're gonna get.”

That’s how it always is with jnats


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## lemeneid (Jun 13, 2019)

Also Maxim’s stuff is typically overpriced for beginners, especially the Ohira suitas. For a first time owner, might I suggest choosing a simpler and cheaper medium finisher to start with. Then when you have a feel for nats you can start splashing the big bucks for the nice Nakayama iromono that’s been listed here 
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/nakayama-rainbow-lv-4-a845/


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## lemeneid (Jun 13, 2019)

—-


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## DisconnectedAG (Jun 13, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> Also Maxim’s stuff is typically overpriced for beginners, especially the Ohira suitas. For a first time owner, might I suggest choosing a simpler and cheaper medium finisher to start with. Then when you have a feel for nats you can start splashing the big bucks for the nice Nakayama iromono that’s been listed here
> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/nakayama-rainbow-lv-4-a845/


No, let's go Deadpool style maximum effort on this one, by all means. That looks like a totally reasonable entry into jnats.


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## tgfencer (Jun 13, 2019)

Slipstenar said:


> Well lets say like this, if the seller doesnt accept returns you should choose someone else.. A reputable seller should accept a return of the stone if it just has been tested and that it was not for the liking of the customer.



This is generally not the case, although Western vendors occasionally make their own judgement calls on a case by case basis. The main exception is Alex Gilmore at JapanStone, who offers returns and full refunds on all his stones minus return shipping.




Badgertooth said:


> You could test the hell out of a stone and not be able to predict a toxic layer. It would be an inordinately generous vendor that accepts a return on a stone that later in life reveals hidden toxicity



Otto's right, toxic inclusions are impossible to predict unless clearly visible in the sides or bottom of a stone. You are buying a natural product and nature sadly isn't perfect. Luckily, most toxic layers/inclusions can be managed or removed so it's rarely the end of the world when they appear. If the idea of having to potentially maintenance a sharpening stone is off-putting, jnats aren't your cup of tea.


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## Bert2368 (Jun 13, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> My momma always said, “*Life was like a box of chocolates*. You never know what you're gonna get.”
> 
> That’s how it always is with jnats


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## valgard (Jun 13, 2019)

DisconnectedAG said:


> I really want a jnat, but the depth of knowledge required is terrifying. There's also sealing, creating a nice base for uneven bases, totally different finishes depending on what stone you get and on and on and on. Terror.


that's what makes it so fun xD


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## valgard (Jun 13, 2019)

Slipstenar said:


> Well lets say like this, if the seller doesnt accept returns you should choose someone else.. A reputable seller should accept a return of the stone if it just has been tested and that it was not for the liking of the customer.


there's no way to tell what's inside some stones, I had a perfectly looking Nakayama Maruka (no less) pop an inclusion out of nowhere after some lapping, there was no way to tell from the outside when I first got it.


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## Slipstenar (Jun 14, 2019)

valgard said:


> there's no way to tell what's inside some stones, I had a perfectly looking Nakayama Maruka (no less) pop an inclusion out of nowhere after some lapping, there was no way to tell from the outside when I first got it.



Ofcourse is when you have tested the stone, not after a week or two.. The customer are not to lap it if there is stamps on it, Im just saying after a quick test run on a piece of steel to get a feel for it. It doesnt say the whole big deal, but you can get a feeling for it and quite fast realize if its good or not.
Any inclusions that show up after a while are hidden gems that no one can predict. I´ve hade those too and its not fun to have a really nice stone and one day there starts to be scratches on your knife 

I´m really sorry for your Maruka !!!


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## BoostedGT (Jun 14, 2019)

I am in the same boat, trying to get my first jnat and scared already with all the options ou there, the different price ranges and the surprises you may get.


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## Slipstenar (Jun 14, 2019)

BoostedGT said:


> I am in the same boat, trying to get my first jnat and scared already with all the options ou there, the different price ranges and the surprises you may get.



Yes its a mess out there, my suggestion is to go with something from a seller from this forum or another forum, then you can have a first impression from the seller. Ebay and other markerplaces is like a minefield..


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