# Why are Jnats all from Japan?



## heliosphere (Mar 2, 2020)

OK, obviously _Japanese_ natural stones are from Japan. But what I'm really wondering is, why do all natural waterstones come from Japan? Is it because it's the only place where suitable stones can be found? Or is it because it's the only place with a market that can support the business of quarrying natural waterstones? Or is there some other reason?


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## AT5760 (Mar 2, 2020)

Razor folks swear by stones from France/Belgium: coticule/Belgian blue. You’ve also got Arkansas stones. I’m sure there are plenty of other places from which sharpening stones are quarried.


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## brooksie967 (Mar 2, 2020)

Lots and lots of natural stones are mined all over the world. As mentioned Belgium, France, Arkansas, Thailand, thuringians and goldfisch wetzstein from Germany are also extremely popular with razor guys etc etc etc. Use your google fu!


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## slickmamba (Mar 2, 2020)

if you google natural whetstones youll find all kinds. Of course if you are searching jnats or japanese natural stones youll only find japanese ones...


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## heliosphere (Mar 2, 2020)

I've heard of the other kinds of natural stones, but aren't they typically oilstones? My question is why all natural _waterstones_ are from Japan.


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## childermass (Mar 3, 2020)

In my experience all natural stones regardless of their origin can be used with water as well, western culture somehow managed to establish oil as standard lubricant.
Lots of razor folks use classical oil stones like Arkansas, Dalmore blue etc. with water instead of oil.


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## torbaci (Mar 3, 2020)

Island of Crete in Mediterranean is famous for its natural stones used in sharpening, actually the island lended its name to to the word `GRIT` 
Such stones are used commonly in the region


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Mar 3, 2020)

Most slates work well with water. Some Thuringians come with a warning that oil will permanently ruin the stone. The mines where the Japanese stones come from are all pretty local to one another. A relatively small geological phenomena. My understanding is that they are from shales formed in a sea with a high radiolaria content that was then metamorphosed.


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## Illyria (Mar 3, 2020)

When I was working in Colombia, I had a friend who mined natural stones from there. 

It was truly a pain in the ass to flatten (3-4kg and super uneven), but after doing so, it finished to around 2-3k.


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## erbw02 (Mar 3, 2020)

So my impression is that there are a lot of natural stones from all around the world, but most of them are kind of mid-grit-ish? There doesn't seem to be many non-japanese high grit naturals that are useful for kitchen knives... is this correct or just something I made up?


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## Nikabrik (Mar 3, 2020)

Of course, one big draw of jnats is the particular finish they produce. Some types of stone will never produce a kasumi finish due to their composition (eg, Arkansas)

However, I've been following Cape Natural Stones on IG for a while - they're collecting natural stones in South Africa: https://www.instagram.com/p/B7GNkJCpjRz/?igshid=gpq4ktx74zl4


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## inferno (Mar 3, 2020)

there have always been coarse and fine sharpening stones from pretty much all countries and regions of the world. they have mined these for the last 2-3000 years or so.


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## inferno (Mar 3, 2020)

erbw02 said:


> So my impression is that there are a lot of natural stones from all around the world, but most of them are kind of mid-grit-ish? There doesn't seem to be many non-japanese high grit naturals that are useful for kitchen knives... is this correct or just something I made up?



there is about 20 or so common ones for razors at least.


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## RDalman (Mar 3, 2020)

erbw02 said:


> So my impression is that there are a lot of natural stones from all around the world, but most of them are kind of mid-grit-ish? There doesn't seem to be many non-japanese high grit naturals that are useful for kitchen knives... is this correct or just something I made up?



coticule is one famous example of typically very fine grit. But also naturals always vary stone to stone also. Heard many times from older swedes about fine sandstones for razors, but the ones I have seen and tried (orsa and gotlands) have been coarse, like 300 grit.


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## inferno (Mar 3, 2020)

the old romans used coticules supposedly. i wonder which vein they liked the best? la veinette? la dressante?


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## erbw02 (Mar 3, 2020)

RDalman said:


> coticule is one famous example of typically very fine grit. But also naturals always vary stone to stone also. Heard many times from older swedes about fine sandstones for razors, but the ones I have seen and tried (orsa and gotlands) have been coarse, like 300 grit.



Yeah that's true, I even own a BBW lol. It gives an enjoyable edge I think when hitting it directly after a 1k, but it's a bit to hard for my liking. Maybe the coticules are softer (and faster, and finish finer from what I hear)

I also own a Losbrynet that I got from you @RDalman when I picked up a knife at you shop just before you moved. But that one seems to finish significantly lower than eg. the BBW.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Mar 3, 2020)

erbw02 said:


> There doesn't seem to be many non-japanese high grit naturals that are useful for kitchen knives... is this correct or just something I made up?





inferno said:


> there is about 20 or so common ones for razors at least.


 And at least an order of magnitude or two more, of natural stones that would be usable for kitchen knives.

Natural sharpening stones quarries in every country were considered strategic... Until the invention of gunpowder.

One of my hobbies is hunting for natural stones in Colorado and surrounding states that are useful for knife and razor sharpening/honing.


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## inferno (Mar 3, 2020)

if i could afford i would hone on a moon rock. no, a mars rock!


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## erbw02 (Mar 3, 2020)

Ok, sorry OP for hijacking the thread but... if there are so many good alternatives readily available all around, why are we all obsessed with jnats? =D


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Mar 3, 2020)

E


erbw02 said:


> Ok, sorry OP for hijacking the thread but... if there are so many good alternatives readily available all around, why are we all obsessed with jnats? =D


Try buying an Escher at a reasonable price. Other stones besides Jnats have their followers. Part of the attraction to Jnats is the aesthetics. Many of the stones are very beautiful.


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## PalmRoyale (Mar 3, 2020)

Nikabrik said:


> However, I've been following Cape Natural Stones on IG for a while - they're collecting natural stones in South Africa: https://www.instagram.com/p/B7GNkJCpjRz/?igshid=gpq4ktx74zl4



Discovered his page as well. Asked him about prices. $350 is a lot of money for an unknown stone.


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## erbw02 (Mar 3, 2020)

VICTOR J CREAZZI said:


> Try buying an Escher at a reasonable price.



First: what is an Escher? Second: might the reason that it is hard to get an Escher at a reasonable price be that it is, in fact, not readily available?


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## torbaci (Mar 3, 2020)

I want all stones from every source and grind stuff on them

i want belgian blue whetstones,turkish oilstones,original grit stone from crete,and jnats,everything

my wife disagrees.


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## inferno (Mar 3, 2020)

eschers were handpicked thuringen stones "thüringian" sold by the escher company as razor stones about 100 years ago. 10-15k grit or so.


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## Ruso (Apr 25, 2020)

I thought JNATs were sought after because of the intoxicating smell, I mean finish, they produce.


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 25, 2020)

It’s good marketing, along with community developed by vendors & forums made them popular riding the Jknife wave.


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## Marek07 (Apr 26, 2020)

torbaci said:


> Island of Crete in Mediterranean is famous for its natural stones used in sharpening, actually the island lended its name to to the word `GRIT`
> Such stones are used commonly in the region


Although the idea that grit is related to Crete appeals to me, it's without foundation. According to etymonline.com, it comes from Old English greot "sand, dust, earth, gravel," from Proto-Germanic *greutan "tiny particles of crushed rock. Other dictionary sources support this.


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## rocketman (Apr 26, 2020)

My first Japanese knife came from the knife shop just outside, I think North, of the old Tokyo fish market maybe 20 years ago on a trip for fireworks all over northern Japan. I knew NOTHING, was just looking, and bought two knives the shop keeper recommended, lower end of each shape. Of course then he sharpened them on his giant water covered wheel in the back, and finished with hand polishing....
He also showed me a big selection of natural stones, and artificial stones to accompany the knives, but said , with hand motions etc. , in Japanese, the artificial ones are much more practical, and that is the way to go. Probably good advice for a knife virgin gringo.


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## Luftmensch (Apr 26, 2020)

Beyond J-nats going hand-in-glove with the trending Japanese knife love affair... Let me offer a different perspective! 

There is nothing special about Japanese stones... There are mountains all over the world! That said, I think there is something special about Japanese culture. They celebrate perfection and attention to detail - generating a huge industry for craftsmen. You could 'just' quarry stones for honing... or you could turn it into a skilled craft in and of itself. I think this is demonstrated by the rich language set used to describe J-nats. Another is that stones are graded and priced according to appearance. There is a dimension of appreciation that extends beyond simple utility (almost in a suiseki-like way).

Every pre-industrial culture would have used natural materials for whetstones. Some of these have already been mentioned. So that 'richness' with regards to natural stones may have existed in other parts of the world at some point in time. Either it died out or never developed beyond fulfilling basic utility. 

I think that 'richness' plays a large role for collectors and hobbyists. It creates a lot of options to try while enjoying the journey. If you take Arkansas whetstones as a counter example; they generally look very similar. Same for Coticules or Escher stones. That doesn't leave a lot of room for over-indulging in the experience. But perhaps I am being unfair to these stones?!


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## kayman67 (Apr 26, 2020)

I always felt like coticules might be the closest thing to them.


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## aaamax (Apr 27, 2020)

Ruso said:


> I thought JNATs were sought after because of the intoxicating smell, I mean finish, they produce.


Seriously! I am always sniffing mine. That sweet earthy smell is like no other. Just don't do that to granite because of the Radon. Hell, Jnats might too have some radioactive element to them...


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## parttimevegan (Apr 27, 2020)

a bit off topic but I have never found a reason to use oil when water works fine. you can never get the oil out of your stone so to me that is just throwing money away. you also need to pay for the oil. I just don't see why anyone would want oil.


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## Razor (Apr 28, 2020)

Apache Strata from the southwest are well thought of by experienced Jnat users.


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## mlau (Apr 28, 2020)

You might want to contact David Weaver (youtube) or Stan Covington.

As for Japanese natural stones....they're variable. 
While they're nice (and I swear by them), I've found that a good Arkansas stone can work as well....ditto for Jasper, and other stones around the area. 

A good translucent arkansas stone is a thing of beauty (and utility). I might actually prefer it over my fancy Kyoto J-nat.

Speaking of which--if you have some Jasper nearby, you should try using it!


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## kidsos (Apr 28, 2020)

I'am always a bit interested in natural stones from China. Aliexpress has a few different kinds. 









31.5US $ 10% OFF|Natural Red Whetstone 800# Double faced polishing stone professional promotion sharpness Sharpening stones|Abrasives| - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com













87.18US $ |(accept Selection) Natural Whetstone Knife Sharpener Whetstone Songhua ( Sungari) Whetstone ,water Whetstone ,grinding Sharpener - Sharpeners - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com













34.07US $ 10% OFF|8000 Knife Sharpener Whetstone Pedicure/woodworking Grinder - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com





These are few different ones, no idea about the finish or quality tho


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## mlau (Apr 28, 2020)

Being Chinese (American, which means that mainland Chinese don't see me as one of them), I'd be really skeptical of buying most things out of China---unless you have a friend living locally over there.

There's a lot of over inflated claims and specs in most things Chinese.

That being said, there's some really great stuff being made in China--almost exclusively for the Chinese. You'll see this in the Audio Chi-Fi wave of surprisingly decent amplifiers, headphones, DACs, etc.


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## Desert Rat (Apr 28, 2020)

Geological factors.


Aritcle_hardstone


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