# Best school for Culinary education



## mille162 (Apr 29, 2017)

Considering mid-life change and getting some more formal culinary education. Always thought CIA to be the best but not looking forward to living in Hyde Park so looking into other alternatives.

What are your thoughts on the top 3 choices, and what stands out as the best for you/why?

These seem to keep coming up in the top lists:
Institute Culinary Location (NYC)
CIA (Hyde Park, NY)
CIA (CA)
International Culinary Center (NYC)
Le Cordon Bleu (Chicago)
Kendall College (Chicago)
New England Culinary Institute (VT)
L'Academie de Cuisine (Wash DC)
Auguste Escoffier school of culinary arts (CO)


I have a BS in Bus Admin already, so not concerned about the overall education, just the kitchen based studies (history, basic prep, sauces, menu creation, etc). Future direction is unknown at this point, but already involved in a startup RTD food business. Not sure I'd ever want to go down the road of launching my own restaurant or working as ex chef and being tied to one specific location.

Thoughts on where to study moving forward?

Thanks

Ron


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## JBroida (Apr 29, 2017)

have you considered just working in kitchens first for a bit before thinking about school?


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## jklip13 (Apr 29, 2017)

I did the CIA, great place and teachers, but you're right about the location, no bueno


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## cheflivengood (Apr 29, 2017)

JBroida said:


> have you considered just working in kitchens first for a bit before thinking about school?



If you consider yourself a human worth your metal, just get an internship somewhere, the best place you can. Do whatever it takes. This will not only save on the absurdity of culinary school cost, but will challenge you to the point of seeing if you actually want to be a cook/chef.


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## JBroida (Apr 29, 2017)

cheflivengood said:


> If you consider yourself a human worth your metal, just get an internship somewhere, the best place you can. Do whatever it takes. This will not only save on the absurdity of culinary school cost, but will challenge you to the point of seeing if you actually want to be a cook/chef.



this


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## Wdestate (Apr 29, 2017)

JBroida said:


> have you considered just working in kitchens first for a bit before thinking about school?



i agree with this fully. The % of culinary grads that come to me from an assortment of schools CIA, Johnson and Wales, New England culinary institute etc etc ( i work in new England if you couldn't tell by the schools) just to work a bit and decide that the field is not what school made it out to be and what they thought is very high. cooking is a field that you do not need school, im not saying dont go, but you can learn quite a bit just by doing and being a sponge, take it all in, ask questions, be willing to learn... after that decide if you want to give a school a lot of money ( which btw generally takes a while to pay back on a intro cook salary ha)


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## Droahrig3 (Apr 29, 2017)

The school of getting hollered at by a talented chef until you get it right worked for me


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## labor of love (Apr 29, 2017)

mille162 said:


> I have a BS in Bus Admin already, so not concerned about the overall education, just the kitchen based studies (history, basic prep, sauces, menu creation, etc). Future direction is unknown at this point, but already involved in a startup RTD food business. Not sure I'd ever want to go down the road of launching my own restaurant or working as ex chef and being tied to one specific location.


Interesting. Maybe pick up cordon bleu and other books that teach the curriculum. Maybe do some staging here and abroad. think long and hard about the business venture you're a part of and find hands on ways you could gain experience that would be relevant. Sounds like you most likely won't be the one toiling away in the kitchen but understanding those that do as a career would help your perspective.


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## _PixelNinja (Apr 30, 2017)

I agree with the above  get an internship, bring a pocket notebook and write down everything and anything of importance, do your best, and see if it is for you. Also, this might seem obvious and it also depends on what you are aiming for, but stay curious, get (good) books, research on the internet and read, read, read whenever you have the time.


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## TheCaptain (Apr 30, 2017)

My apologies to anyone here who may have gone to any of the Le Cordon Bleu schools in the US, but as someone with insider knowledge trust me when I say stay as far away from them as you can.


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## jklip13 (Apr 30, 2017)

Realistically 99.9% of what I learned in school could have been done from home and a restaurant for a tiny fraction of the cost. I would have been too lazy to do it on my own though. I probably would not have read On Food and Cooking cover to cover so many times if i wasn't being tested on it, or stayed up all night studying wine. It is 100% doable but it's up to you to make it happen without the structure of school. I think there is also something to be said for studying topics you aren't interested in. Generally this only happens when it's part of a curriculum you're locked into. Not too many people pickup books that they aren't interested in, unless you have to for school (or an employer asks you to for some reason.) 
Will these small lessons be worth the huge cost of school? No idea!


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## StonedEdge (Apr 30, 2017)

Droahrig3 said:


> The school of getting hollered at by a talented chef until you get it right worked for me



This type of education typically is the best one can get in almost any field. I learn more in 1 day at work than I did throughout my 4 years of undergrad combined. Schools are just a money making venture like anything else.


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## Droahrig3 (Apr 30, 2017)

Used to be called an apprenticeship..


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## mille162 (Apr 30, 2017)

Thanks all for the response. I've worked in several restaurants through my teens and early 20's. Had a very focused catering business for a bit (nutritional gourmet meals to professional racers), and then a smaller corporate catering business that was just me cooking. I'm beyond your typical home chef, and I would love a gig in a kitchen somewhere and prob should look more into it, especially considering my connections in the industry.

The desire for a culinary education is more on personal interest. My non-business electives were in the hospitality school (ethnic cooking, regional cuisines, wine & spirits, etc) and Im bored in my career. I enjoyed these classes. I'm looking to learn about food. I want to know more about the differences in each pasta shape. The science in making the dish. Im looking for the formal knowledge/education behind the preparation of certain ingredients across different cultures as well as the specific recipes of those cultures. i want to geek out on sauces. Yes, I want more kitchen experience than I have already, but I also want to take these classes and learn more than just preparation. I am not looking for a career cooking in a kitchen, but the areas I'm considering next would require me to have the overall knowledge of a chef's pains/daily routine, restaurant owners daily concerns, the managers job, etc. most of my jobs have been in the consulting world and my position with the new food based venture is on the business side of things.

So, I'm looking to compare the top cooking schools because I want the knowledge of studying and discussing/debating food and related topics with others in the industry. I WANT to spend time learning about all of the related topics (you can only go to so many guest lectures, author appearances, VIP dinkng experiences before you jump in to learn even more). In addition, I'd live to find something in the Philadelphia/NYC area where I could work in a kitchen and learn more....if any of you are looking for some help in your kitchen, I'm a jack of many trades and tons of experience 

For now, think of the knowledge you gained from the culinary school as far as theory, method and knowledge of ingredients, history and applications, and what you would recommend to someone else


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## cheflivengood (May 1, 2017)

mille162 said:


> Thanks all for the response. I've worked in several restaurants through my teens and early 20's. Had a very focused catering business for a bit (nutritional gourmet meals to professional racers), and then a smaller corporate catering business that was just me cooking. I'm beyond your typical home chef, and I would love a gig in a kitchen somewhere and prob should look more into it, especially considering my connections in the industry.
> 
> The desire for a culinary education is more on personal interest. My non-business electives were in the hospitality school (ethnic cooking, regional cuisines, wine & spirits, etc) and Im bored in my career. I enjoyed these classes. I'm looking to learn about food. I want to know more about the differences in each pasta shape. The science in making the dish. Im looking for the formal knowledge/education behind the preparation of certain ingredients across different cultures as well as the specific recipes of those cultures. i want to geek out on sauces. Yes, I want more kitchen experience than I have already, but I also want to take these classes and learn more than just preparation. I am not looking for a career cooking in a kitchen, but the areas I'm considering next would require me to have the overall knowledge of a chef's pains/daily routine, restaurant owners daily concerns, the managers job, etc. most of my jobs have been in the consulting world and my position with the new food based venture is on the business side of things.
> 
> ...



I understand What you are looking for as far as higher learning. I went to Kendall. Although having a base knowledge of mother sauces, etc.. is important, my experience in internship completely changed how I thought about those techniques. I could not only do them better taste-wise, but technique and efficiency (which is the most important part of translating food to a business) were way beyond my peers when I returned. Buy the books and study, which as a learn-ed man you will have no problem absorbing, but just like in the military, you must be pushed beyond your physical and mental capacity before you can really improve in those areas, and as an experienced cook and an educated person I think you will find the classes laughable.


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## Salty dog (May 2, 2017)

My Sous Chef elected to attend culinary school (part time and locally) after 14 years of working in my kitchen. I have to admit it has made him a more rounded professional. He's a very smart guy and thirsts for knowledge. He knows how to sift through the dirt to discover the gold. It's also a motivator for him. I didn't go to culinary school so all he knew was real world based. Another side benefit is he gets the sanitation certification in school. I don't have to deal with it.


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## Nomsdotcom (May 2, 2017)

TheCaptain said:


> My apologies to anyone here who may have gone to any of the Le Cordon Bleu schools in the US, but as someone with insider knowledge trust me when I say stay as far away from them as you can.



I did. And I have to agree. I was lucky the school I went to had good teachers, who were willing to teach outside the lesson plans. One quick example is we had to share chickens when learing to break them down  I learned a lot there but nothing you can't pick up with on the job experience and a few books. And save yourself +20grand. Hell for that much you can travel around and stage under great chefs. Once you have applicable skills!


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## Nomsdotcom (May 2, 2017)

mille162 said:


> Thanks all for the response. I've worked in several restaurants through my teens and early 20's. Had a very focused catering business for a bit (nutritional gourmet meals to professional racers), and then a smaller corporate catering business that was just me cooking. I'm beyond your typical home chef, and I would love a gig in a kitchen somewhere and prob should look more into it, especially considering my connections in the industry.
> 
> The desire for a culinary education is more on personal interest. My non-business electives were in the hospitality school (ethnic cooking, regional cuisines, wine & spirits, etc) and Im bored in my career. I enjoyed these classes. I'm looking to learn about food. I want to know more about the differences in each pasta shape. The science in making the dish. Im looking for the formal knowledge/education behind the preparation of certain ingredients across different cultures as well as the specific recipes of those cultures. i want to geek out on sauces. Yes, I want more kitchen experience than I have already, but I also want to take these classes and learn more than just preparation. I am not looking for a career cooking in a kitchen, but the areas I'm considering next would require me to have the overall knowledge of a chef's pains/daily routine, restaurant owners daily concerns, the managers job, etc. most of my jobs have been in the consulting world and my position with the new food based venture is on the business side of things.
> 
> ...



I had a friend who went to CIA and loved it. Probably the best well rounded education out there to my knowledge. Ever checked out the Modernist Cuisine books? Delves into the science of cooking, good read if you want to know some of the "why" instead of just "how"


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## daveb (May 2, 2017)

I came into cooking for money as a twilight career. No culinary school, just a lifelong hobby that I now get paid to do. Worked with many chefs over the few years and I like working with the grads from J&W. They seem to me to have the best culinary foundation. (That may be in part because there is a J&W in Miami - the only "big" school in Fl) I've also worked with CIA grads and they've been pretty well rounded except the ones who've gone the 6 months and your done program. Our local schools are pretty pathetic.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 2, 2017)

Sounds like you have experience in the field. One thing I liked about the industry was how busy it kept me. You have to be organized and work fast. No time to be bored. A busy kitchen is a good thing.

Never went to culinary school, but taught Ice Carving at our local school and now teach knife sharpening it is not so bad for the local kids the tuition is not as high as many culinary programs. The out of state(most Japan, Korea, China) students pay quite a bit more for the classes. They do give a rounded education, including ordering, cost control, food safety. Some of the local executive chefs in Hawaii went through the program, but they were the go getters talented creative cooks, good organizers. Some of these students will never make it in a production kitchen. 

I can't see putting out the big bucks for school. Best to have a paycheck in a good kitchen and stay on your own time to learn from the guys, most people will teach you. If you taste a dish or sauce that you like compliment them on it they show you how to make it.


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