# Low baller alert!



## M1k3 (Jun 4, 2021)

Post em up!


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## BillHanna (Jun 4, 2021)

I sold a Shinko Seilan 210 gyuto at a net loss of 30USD. I got offers IMMEDIATELY. Clearly, I should have tried to make a profit or at least break even.


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## ian (Jun 4, 2021)

@SolidSnake03 sold a bunch of stuff recently at stupid prices (his own words). Is this an intervention thread? Is there a KKF staff of therapists ready to work with members to understand their own worth, and to make sure they never sell anything for less than market value?


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## LostHighway (Jun 4, 2021)

I have a small shrine set up for @soigne_west, possibly one of the Taoist immortals


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## ian (Jun 4, 2021)

I also am a disciple of @soigne_west.


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## Carl Kotte (Jun 4, 2021)

I’m a love baller


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 4, 2021)

Oh they certainly were stupid prices haha. Planning to keep doing that for a while going forward as I work down my collection so I’m guessing I’m a low baller then?


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## tostadas (Jun 4, 2021)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Oh they certainly were stupid prices haha. Planning to keep doing that for a while going forward as I work down my collection so I’m guessing I’m a low baller then?


This absolutely needs to stop. If you feel the urge to dump more stuff for those kind of prices, shoot me a PM and we can talk through it instead. Lemme go find my credit card first...


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## Corradobrit1 (Jun 4, 2021)

Too soon.


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## matchplay18 (Jun 4, 2021)

Buyers sellers remorse. When the old isn't new enough anymore. You That idea of that new Unicorn. You sometimes need to pave the monetary path. What is going to motivate the would be buyer other than a good price.


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## McMan (Jun 4, 2021)

There can only be a "low ball offer" not a low ball price.
In which case, no one selling anything can low ball.
You're welcome


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## matchplay18 (Jun 4, 2021)

Sorry for the miscue and somehow I hit the wrong keys didn't finish my thread. Needed funds or impulse, there is usually a cost for moving on or away from something. What if a day or two passes and you didn't get any inquiry's? And you feel the Unicorn is fading away. You might have a different perspective. After the sale we all have the benefit of hindsight. Maybe you will get a smoking deal somewhere else tell yourself the scales have again balanced.


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## btbyrd (Jun 4, 2021)

Recently saw someone on a forum selling a $300 knife in good condition for $250 -- a fair asking price. To which someone with 5 posts responded "150$?". Ugh. That's the kind of crap I often get when trying to sell on eBay -- even when I'm not selling with "or best offer" selected. This forum is usually pretty good about this kind of thing, and I'm not opposed to haggling at the margins. But to publicly ask someone to ask for a 40% discount on a fairly priced item is a bad look.


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## ian (Jun 4, 2021)

McMan said:


> There can only be a "low ball offer" not a low ball price.
> In which case, no one selling anything can low ball.
> You're welcome



Grammer has no place hear in the KKF! Go back to the ivery towel.


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## TSF415 (Jun 4, 2021)

Yea I'm confused, I thought this thread was going to be about ridiculous offers people send. In which case someone reached out to me about the Dalman Honyaki I got from @ian . I told him I wasn't interested in selling it but if I was going to, I'd pass it along for how much I got it for. He responded with well I'll give you $450 for it, someone else offered me there's for $400 but I'll take yours. Huh?! lol


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## Jville (Jun 4, 2021)

TSF415 said:


> Yea I'm confused, I thought this thread was going to be about ridiculous offers people send. In which case someone reached out to me about the Dalman Honyaki I got from @ian . I told him I wasn't interested in selling it but if I was going to, I'd pass it along for how much I got it for. He responded with well I'll give you $450 for it, someone else offered me there's for $400 but I'll take yours. Huh?! lol


Lol, yeah I’m really concerned about money, so I’ll low ball you and tell you I’m willing to pay more just to do you a solid... You actually meet/make friends here selling and trading and that’s when I think it’s at its best here. That’s what draws me to trade/sell/buy here, but there’s definetely some shady  s and I think it’s good to call them out.


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## ian (Jun 4, 2021)

TSF415 said:


> Yea I'm confused, I thought this thread was going to be about ridiculous offers people send. In which case someone reached out to me about the Dalman Honyaki I got from @ian . I told him I wasn't interested in selling it but if I was going to, I'd pass it along for how much I got it for. He responded with well I'll give you $450 for it, someone else offered me there's for $400 but I'll take yours. Huh?! lol



Oh, I know that “someone else” he’s talking about! I’m going on a date with them tonight!

At my house.

Drinking boxed wine.

Watching Friends reruns.

Alone.


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## tcmx3 (Jun 4, 2021)

TSF415 said:


> Yea I'm confused, I thought this thread was going to be about ridiculous offers people send. In which case someone reached out to me about the Dalman Honyaki I got from @ian . I told him I wasn't interested in selling it but if I was going to, I'd pass it along for how much I got it for. He responded with well I'll give you $450 for it, someone else offered me there's for $400 but I'll take yours. Huh?! lol



that's some kind of crazy psychological play.

Id be concerned the dude has a bunch of dead animals buried in his back yard.

(that is a joke)


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## tostadas (Jun 4, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> that's some kind of crazy psychological play.
> 
> Id be concerned the dude has a bunch of dead animals buried in his back yard.
> 
> (that is a joke)


Better than live animals buried though right?


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## nwshull (Jun 4, 2021)

I don't see what the issue with low balling is ethically. I understand some forms of flipping, particularly, when you buy something in high demand new then immediately reselling it. You're essentially a parasite on the market transaction to a honest buyer. You've done nothing to make or develop a global supply chain to match the maker and buyer.

On the other hand, low balling is not that. If I have 200 bucks to spend on a knife, and someone wants to sell a knife for 350 because they need cash, its up to them to decide whether that 200 bucks on the table today is worth it or hold out for 350. I don't owe them the additional 150, anymore than they owe me the knife. I bring the value of putting 200 bucks in their pocket immediately, not possibly at some point in the future. 

If the seller feel it will be worth more and can afford to hold it they should. I really don't see how that's any different than say choosing to hold onto or sell a stock or mutual fund, or really anything else. If you're selling knives either because you over extended yourself financially, or you thought of it as a speculative investment and it doesn't pay out, that's really on you as the seller.


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## ian (Jun 4, 2021)

It's just annoying and a little disrespectful. If you explain "hey, I'm short on funds right now, so please let me know if you ever come down to $200 on that knife, since I can't afford it otherwise" then that's ok imo, but typically what happens is you post a knife for $300 and then in like 3 hrs someone says "will u take 200" and like, no, of course I won't take $200 because I just posted the stupid thing. You think I'm going to choose to lose $100 rather than wait for another buyer? If I'm desperate to sell, I'll just lower the price, and 4-word low ball offers tell me that the buyer doesn't really value the product and is just trying to score something for cheap. I guess there's more grey area with a knife that's been sitting for a long time, but in general, unless someone says specifically that they'll take lower offers, I don't make them as a buyer.


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## nwshull (Jun 4, 2021)

ian said:


> It's just annoying and a little disrespectful. If you explain "hey, I'm short on funds right now, so please let me know if you ever come down to $200 on that knife, since I can't afford it otherwise" then that's ok imo, but typically what happens is you post a knife for $300 and then in like 3 hrs someone says "will u take 200" and like, no, of course I won't take $200 because I just posted the stupid thing. You think I'm going to choose to lose $100 rather than wait for another buyer? If I'm desperate to sell, I'll just lower the price, and low ball offers without context tell me that the buyer doesn't really value the product and is just trying to score something for cheap. I guess there's more grey area with a knife that's been sitting for a long time, but in general, unless someone says specifically that they'll take lower offers, I don't make them as a buyer.


Other perspective: I have 200 bucks, I see a 400 dollar product not moving for 2-3 weeks and the person goes down by increments of 5 dollars. Its clearly overpriced based on what demand is, if your goal is to move the knife quickly. I like many people don't NEED a new knife to cook my dinner. But if that's a knife I'd like to have at some point and I see its not moved I may put a bid in that's lower. Its just the marginal value I get out of 400 bucks from it isn't that high because I already own several similar knives. Offering 200 to me seems perfectly reasonable. For example, my first Y Tanaka wide bevel blue 1 I brought to me is worth the 450 I paid for it. I would gladly buy a second if someone offered me 200 on the secondary market, but buying a second has substantially less marginal utility and value to me than my first because I already own my first one. But to a different buyer without one, its probably worth that. I think resellers need to recognize those different perspectives among buyers.

I agree with you though if you just put it on the market and I try to massively undercut the price right away, I deserve to be laughed off. I disagree with putting someone on blast if they shoot a significantly lower price for something that hasn't moved in a while.


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## LostHighway (Jun 4, 2021)

ian said:


> It's just annoying and a little disrespectful. If you explain "hey, I'm short on funds right now, so please let me know if you ever come down to $200 on that knife, since I can't afford it otherwise" then that's ok imo, but typically what happens is you post a knife for $300 and then in like 3 hrs someone says "will u take 200" and like, no, of course I won't take $200 because I just posted the stupid thing. You think I'm going to choose to lose $100 rather than wait for another buyer? If I'm desperate to sell, I'll just lower the price, and 4-word low ball offers tell me that the buyer doesn't really value the product and is just trying to score something for cheap. I guess there's more grey area with a knife that's been sitting for a long time, but in general, unless someone says specifically that they'll take lower offers, I don't make them as a buyer.



This is something of a gray area for me. Usually I just pay the asking price if it seems fair but I have occasionally offered ~10% less either because I perceive the item as slightly overpriced or because those extra dollars move a purchase from insane to kinda-sorta justifiable. I'm certainly not miffed if the seller says "no". Unless the seller has posted a crazy price (almost never seen on B/S/T) I perceive really lowball offers (<70% of asking) as crass and insulting but that is just my personal perception.


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## soigne_west (Jun 4, 2021)

You all think I’m Fxcking crazy but I swear only good things come from offering good prices on knives. Also my prices are always relative to what I paid so that should tel you something. The flippers may make a few hundred bucks but lose much more respect. Is it worth it? Up to them to decide.


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## ian (Jun 4, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> This is something of a gray area for me. Usually I just pay the asking price if it seems fair but I have occasionally offered ~10% less either because I perceive the item as slightly overpriced or because those extra dollars move a purchase from insane to kinda-sorta justifiable. I'm certainly not miffed if the seller says "no". Unless the seller has posted a crazy price (almost never seen on B/S/T) I perceive really lowball offers (<70% of asking) as crass and insulting but that is just my personal perception.



Yea, it is a little grey if you just ask for a bit off. I think I did that a couple times at first, but don’t anymore because it bugs me a bit when people do it to me. But that’s just my personal hang-up, probably others don’t mind.




nwshull said:


> Other perspective: I have 200 bucks, I see a 400 dollar product not moving for 2-3 weeks and the person goes down by increments of 5 dollars. Its clearly overpriced based on what demand is, if your goal is to move the knife quickly. I like many people don't NEED a new knife to cook my dinner. But if that's a knife I'd like to have at some point and I see its not moved I may put a bid in that's lower. Its just the marginal value I get out of 400 bucks from it isn't that high because I already own several similar knives. Offering 200 to me seems perfectly reasonable. For example, my first Y Tanaka wide bevel blue 1 I brought to me is worth the 450 I paid for it. I would gladly buy a second if someone offered me 200 on the secondary market, but buying a second has substantially less marginal utility and value to me than my first because I already own my first one. But to a different buyer without one, its probably worth that. I think resellers need to recognize those different perspectives among buyers.



If the price goes down every week by only $5 I’d take that as a good indication that the seller doesn’t want to take $200 off the price. Your example of “I have another of these, so it’s not worth as much to me” seems like a perfect example of the buyer not properly valuing the knife. I’m not sure why that’s supposed to make it better. Like, I’m supposed to be more inclined to sell my treasured knife to someone because he already has one? In this scenario I’d find a $200 offer on my $400 knife pretty insulting. It’s stupid too, because if I wanted $200 for it I could just list it for $200 and it’d sell in like 5 minutes. The buyer isn’t doing the seller a favor in this situation, which is why it’s different from @LostHighway’s scenario, where it’s not clear if there’d be another buyer at the suggested 10% less price.


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## ian (Jun 4, 2021)

soigne_west said:


> You all think I’m Fxcking crazy but I swear only good things come from offering good prices on knives. Also my prices are always relative to what I paid so that should tel you something. The flippers may make a few hundred bucks but lose much more respect. Is it worth it? Up to them to decide.



It’s also just better to have your stuff sell fast. I don’t got the brain power to monitor a sale for more than a couple days! A couple things I’ve bought new I’ve initially posted for optimistic prices because I got sick to my stomach losing $100 on them after a couple weeks of home use, but my usual MO is to buy good deals on BST and then sell them again for slightly less.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jun 4, 2021)

Sometimes the only way to get mentioned on every page of a thread is to do it yourself!


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## M1k3 (Jun 4, 2021)

nwshull said:


> I don't see what the issue with low balling is ethically. I understand some forms of flipping, particularly, when you buy something in high demand new then immediately reselling it. You're essentially a parasite on the market transaction to a honest buyer. You've done nothing to make or develop a global supply chain to match the maker and buyer.
> 
> On the other hand, low balling is not that. If I have 200 bucks to spend on a knife, and someone wants to sell a knife for 350 because they need cash, its up to them to decide whether that 200 bucks on the table today is worth it or hold out for 350. I don't owe them the additional 150, anymore than they owe me the knife. I bring the value of putting 200 bucks in their pocket immediately, not possibly at some point in the future.
> 
> If the seller feel it will be worth more and can afford to hold it they should. I really don't see how that's any different than say choosing to hold onto or sell a stock or mutual fund, or really anything else. If you're selling knives either because you over extended yourself financially, or you thought of it as a speculative investment and it doesn't pay out, that's really on you as the seller.


I'll take your whole knife and sharpening stone collection for $123.87. I'll pay $4 towards shipping also.


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## ian (Jun 4, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> I'll take your whole knife and sharpening stone collection for $123.87. I'll pay $4 towards shipping also.



Cheapskate. What about the paypal fees?


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## M1k3 (Jun 4, 2021)

ian said:


> Cheapskate. What about the paypal fees?


I forgot! An additional $0.64 for PayPal fees and $1.27 towards your KKF membership.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jun 4, 2021)

No, no... You go F&F.


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## gregfisk (Jun 4, 2021)

It really pisses me off when someone offers an obviously low ball price. If I wanted to sell it for said price I’d just post it for that. It just wastes my time and makes me never want to sell anything to that person ever.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jun 4, 2021)

New page... new name showing opportunity...


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## M1k3 (Jun 4, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> New page... new name showing opportunity...


BargainOfferBob?


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## BillHanna (Jun 4, 2021)




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## timebard (Jun 4, 2021)

I don't see anything wrong with offering a little below asking, I've done it before on occasion when I had a stricter budget. But I think if you're offering below asking by more than, I don't know, 15-20%, you ought to at least make a reasonable case that the seller has mispriced it and/or have the decency to be a little sheepish about it.

If I put a knife up for $400, it's languishing and I'm dropping it by $5-10 a week, someone who makes a $200 offer and tells me the same item went for $200 a couple months ago is at least sharing info, whether I want to take their offer or hold out for more. If they say "hey, I know this is kinda low but it's what I have right now, let me know if you're looking to move it quick," probably won't accept it but no harm done (assuming they don't turn around and post a fistful of shiny new Shigs a week later).

Dropping a lazy "will you take [50% of asking]?" isn't unethical... it's just tacky.


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## nwshull (Jun 4, 2021)

ian said:


> Yea, it is a little grey if you just ask for a bit off. I think I did that a couple times at first, but don’t anymore because it bugs me a bit when people do it to me. But that’s just my personal hang-up, probably others don’t mind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then don't sell?

I guess I'm not sure the point of this thread.... I don't think a seller needs to sell. But I do think, and I've seen, a seller wants to get liquidity fast, but isn't willing to come down at all. That doesn't make sense to me. I don't see it as disrespectful if you need liquidity quickly, and I have the money, just not as much as you want, to offer you the money I do price the knife to you then and there.

If someone wants to move product quickly, I don't think they should take offense to someone offering significantly lower prices. If they are fine with holding the knife and not accepting the lower price, just like any other asset like a stock, bond, or piece of art, etc. they hold it till they get what they want... My issue is purely thinking low ballers are a problem the same way flippers are which is the other thread... which to be clear, my main issue is with the flippers who buy up new stock Shigs/Kato types to resell.


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## nwshull (Jun 4, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> I'll take your whole knife and sharpening stone collection for $123.87. I'll pay $4 towards shipping also.


No thanks. I'm good.

I guess this is the part I don't get about the other side of the argument...Was that hard?


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## DrEriksson (Jun 5, 2021)

Carl Kotte said:


> I’m a love baller


Ball lover.


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## big_adventure (Jun 5, 2021)

nwshull said:


> No thanks. I'm good.
> 
> I guess this is the part I don't get about the other side of the argument...Was that hard?



But, but, he also offered nearly two whole dollars to cover PP fees and part of your KKF membership. doesn't that move the needle?


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## M1k3 (Jun 5, 2021)

nwshull said:


> I guess I'm not sure the point of this thread....


Someone said if there was a thread on it, they would be posting a lot. Here is said thread. In the off topic section. Take that as you want.*









*If you take it seriously and get upset, I absolve myself and anyone else in any way, shape or form from any responsibility of you not enjoying the thread.


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