# Toothy finishing stone?



## Illyria (Apr 1, 2019)

I have a fair amount of a2 and skd knives, and am currently sharpening them with a chosera 800 and a shapton pro 5,000. It gives the knives a great refined finish, but I'm wanting a finish with a bit more toothyness.

My friend lent me some other try out.

Gesshin 2000 - too coarse, not refined enough
Gesshin 4000 - finish feels more like a 2000 grit stone and just not refined enough.
Gesshin 6000 - too refined, and prefer actually prefer the shapton 5000.

He also lent me one that I was not expecting to enjoy so much is the king f3 4000 with a 6000 nagura. It leaves a great refined finish with a good amount of toothiness.

Currently planning on picking up the king f3, but wondering if anyone would recommend something else. Maybe a jnat?

Thanks.


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## refcast (Apr 2, 2019)

Yeah, try any muddy jnat. 

Aizu is popular, but its not muddy. The edge that one makes people describe more as bitey or crisp.
Aoto is more muddy. So are softer finishing stones.

Watanabe Blade is reputable source. Find a stone with a relatively lower HS, or email Shinichi Watanabe direct since his English is serviceable.

Alternatively, with the Gesshin 6000, try using only edge leading strokes for your final strokes. Also have the edge perpendicular to the stroke push. This tended to produce more bite when I used stones. Have your fingers close to the blade edge, too; tends to produce more bite. You could also use a nagura on the Gesshin 6000 . . . or a diamond plate to rough it up a bite. Whatever works.


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## lemeneid (Apr 2, 2019)

I second an Aizu. It’s got a real nice bite to the edge which will help with waxy produce.

It’s a little hard but a good nagura will go a long way to making the stone slurry up and sharpen.


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## mikaelsan (Apr 2, 2019)

how does the king 4000 behave/feel during sharpening? i've really stopped using synthetic for finishing (i mostly use my binsui (jnat) now, with slurry from a soft coarseish jnat finisher) disclaimer: its a slow stone.
but i do keep coming back to the idea of another synthetic finisher, i got the king 6000, but like you i feel like the 6000grit is too smooth in use, besides i hate the way the stone feels unless you get a fair share of slurry on it. i have personally been looking at especially the king 4000 and bester 4000 for soaking options, but something like the cerax 3000 also looks interesting.
From what i recall, a lot of people thinks the shapton pro 5000 is a tad too polished/smooth on the edge for kitchen knives, have you considered just bumping down to the 3000 grit version? the chosera/profesional 3000, to match your 800 grit, is also one of the most popular stones out there


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## Bensbites (Apr 2, 2019)

I have a big aizu I could be convinced to part with.


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## Matus (Apr 2, 2019)

Well, if Gesshin 4000 is too toothy and 6000 too refined, than you can first try to use the 6000 after 4000 just lightly so that you do not 'erase' all of the tooth of the 4000 (Actually - I would go from 2000 to 6000 as there would be little reason to use the 4000 in-between). Another option could be to get Gesshin Synthetic Natural stone (that I used and gave the 4000 to my friend) - that is what I did. I also sold the 6000 (it was too fine for me). I should have kept it though as later I got into straight razors


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## K813zra (Apr 2, 2019)

Yeah, an Aizu will leave you with loads of subtle bite. Refined but yet not. Lovely edge. Can be a bit of a challenging stone at first or at least mine have proven to be so but one of my favorite edges for a carbon double bevel.


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## PappaG (Apr 2, 2019)

Chosera 3000?


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## galvaude (Apr 2, 2019)

Splash and go
Shapton Glass 3000
Naniwa Pro 2000 or 3000

Soak
Suehiro Rika 5000
Naniwa Lobster 40000


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## inferno (Apr 2, 2019)

The glass 3k has bite. But its not so coarse it feels dull. I think this is where it starts to get really sharp. also the 4k glass will have bite, but it is finer and it is slower and it clogs more.


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## Drayquan (Apr 2, 2019)

inferno said:


> The glass 3k has bite. *But its not so coarse it feels dull*. I think this is where it starts to get really sharp.


I'm curious about your opinion about this; what do you mean here exactly? When you say dull, you just mean the surface texture feel of the shapton glass 3k stone?

What about the Shapton Pro 2k for bite/toothy finish?


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## inferno (Apr 2, 2019)

I mean that I don´t think anything below the 3k feels very sharp to me. but the 3k does. and everything above it.
I like the 2k for stuff that will not benefit from a higher grit stone, like globals and worse.


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## Knife2meatu (Apr 2, 2019)

galvaude said:


> Splash and go
> Shapton Glass 3000
> Naniwa Pro 2000 or 3000
> 
> ...



I assume that's a typo and should be Lobster 4000 -- in which case, I'm pretty sure soaking the Lobster 4k would result in it melting -- what _I am sure_ about is that my Lobster 4k has the same printing on its side as do the Choseras; the text which warns against soaking the stone for longer than 1 hour to avoid damaging it.


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## bahamaroot (Apr 2, 2019)

The Aizu and Suehiro Rika 5k were the first two I thought of. Shapton Glass 4k would be another.


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## XooMG (Apr 3, 2019)

I use naturals most of the time but I've had a generally good time using the Sigma (I think...?) artificial renge suita.


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## dan (Apr 3, 2019)

refcast said:


> *when I used stones*


Off-topic, but what do you do now?


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## refcast (Apr 3, 2019)

I still use stones. It's just I've experimented with stropping a lot and pressure distribution. Now when I sharpen on stones:

(1) starting with my fingers close to the edge with hardish pressure
(2) lighten up and do shorter strokes.
(3) move my fingers away from the edge
(4) repeat 2 and 3 until fingers are at the spine

I also do this with stropping after stones or between sharpenings.

I tried stropping edge leading, . . . it doesn't seem to work magnificently well. Bitier but, also duller at the same time. Interesting, but I need to try it some more.


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## Garm (Apr 3, 2019)

@refcast: That's an interesting approach I can't remember seeing described before. What would be the rationale for moving your fingers gradually away from the edge until they reach the spine?


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## labor of love (Apr 3, 2019)

If you go the Aizu route definitely go w watanabe website and read the descriptions carefully before you buy.
Surprised gesh 4k wasn’t what you were looking for here.
I like the rika in your situation. Cheapest finisher I own and also the most used one.


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## Grunt173 (Apr 3, 2019)

There's that word again,Rika. That was one of my first 5k stones and I do believe it is still one of my favorite stones for finishing. I still like using mine a lot too,even though I have others that a more expensive,way more expensive.


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## hennyville (Apr 3, 2019)

Shapton kuromaku 1k and 5k is definitely best synthetic combo i ve tried in last few years.


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## KingShapton (Apr 3, 2019)

I've had very good experiences with the Cerax 700, followed by the Shapton Glass HR 4000. The cutting edge is refined with a lot of bite.

Or you try to get a Balkan Gray (natural stone from the Balkans) via the member trade. With slurry there is a cutting edge with a lot of bite around the 2000 grit, without slurry there is an aggressive cutting edge around 5000 grit.

Another possibility would be a more unknown stone from Naniwa, the Hayabusa, it's splash and go, relatively inexpensive to order via Amazon as a Japan import or via toolsfromjapan. Officially the stone has 4000 grit, I think it leaves a finish more like 6000 grit with good bite. The feedback is significantly more than the Shapton Pro 5000 gives.


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## labor of love (Apr 3, 2019)

The hayabusa leaves a nice polished edge for sure but is it really in the 6k ballpark?


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## vicv (Apr 3, 2019)

I like the sigma select 2 3k. Gives a great toothy but refined edge and is very fast and stays flat


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## Milkman420 (Apr 3, 2019)

labor of love said:


> If you go the Aizu route definitely go w watanabe website and read the descriptions carefully before you buy.
> Surprised gesh 4k wasn’t what you were looking for here.
> I like the rika in your situation. Cheapest finisher I own and also the most used one.


How does one actually read the scale. Some rated in 20s some in the 30 what does that actually mean I’m a total newbie on that kind of stuff


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## refcast (Apr 3, 2019)

Just see it as relative for Aizu: harder aizu or softer. Both are fine to use. The softest I saw for any stone on the site was like 13? And the hardest is 67 for razors. Softness / hardness expresses how easily grit is released. Whether that grit actually cuts is a different matter. Just ask Watanabe if the stone is appropriate for knives if you are unsure and you should be good.

I move gradually toward the spine to distribute pressure more evenly, which is helpful for final refinement. It acts kinda like a damper, so that I can actually have more refinement of the edge.


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## Milkman420 (Apr 3, 2019)

What numbers are appropriate for knives normally. I guess what I’m asking is there a preferred sweet spot you look for stones at like between 28-32 or something like that or does it just depend on the user preferring hardness to softness. I just assumed the stones that cost the most were the best lol and the number thing was a rating of the overall quality but then was seeing a disparity between the numbers not correlating to that theory.


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## HRC_64 (Apr 3, 2019)

I'm not a Jnat expert, but from reading alot about Aizu on the forum, those stones seem to be (best) rated relative to one another when talking about hard and soft.

For the OP, I think Cho3k is splash and go has just the right grit level to be very useful in many applications.
Also in this ballpark are Gesshin Syn Nat and Shapton GS3000...but these are not cheap at $100+/-

The Rika is half the cost of all those, worth looking at for $50


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## ThaFurnace (Apr 3, 2019)

Shoubudani Iromono for awesome bite. Bernal has entry level versions starting around $100.


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## KingShapton (Apr 4, 2019)

The Hayabusa is (for me) definitly in the 5000 - 6000 grit--range, I think more like a 6000.


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## labor of love (Apr 4, 2019)

Either way Hayabusa is a terrific finisher for the price. It’s been a couple years since I owned one. Honestly my favorite 4k(ish) edges are Aizu and gesh 4k. Rika is just so cheap and easy to use, it’s really irresistible if you have it on hand. Which reminds me, I really need to clean the dust of my takashima.


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 4, 2019)

Can you still get the 5K Rika's with a base? Different strokes for different folks. I have a 6K gesshin that don't use too much as a home cook these days. Like the 4K gesshin Puts a good toothy edge on my thin edged carbons. Thin a little at around 3% put a final bevel less then 15%. The knives my better half uses put the micro bevel a little higher. Use the 4K as a stand alone for most of my trained knives.


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## Michi (Apr 4, 2019)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Can you still get the 5K Rika's with a base?


Available on Amazon with and without base.

https://www.amazon.com/Suehiro-Fini...5000&qid=1554356791&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmrnull

https://www.amazon.com/Suehiro-5000...5000&qid=1554356774&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull


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## F-Flash (Apr 4, 2019)

Chosera 3k sounds perfect for you


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## labor of love (Apr 4, 2019)

F-Flash said:


> Chosera 3k sounds perfect for you


Never used chosera 3k before...but if the OP says the gesshin 4k is too coarse I would think the chosera would be as well.


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## refcast (Apr 4, 2019)

Cost for jnat is based on rarity, prettiness in color or pattern, no broken corners, no toxic lines that release sand and stuff, stamps, mine name, size. 

Cutting and sharpening ability isn't really factored into cost. A good starter jnat is one that cuts and releases grit. You could just give Watanabe a price range and that you want to use it one knives, and he can select one for you. Of all the online knife makers he probably has the largest stone inventory and knowledge.


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## Illyria (Apr 4, 2019)

How does an aizu finish compared to a gesshin 4000? Or a King 4000? (obviously all are different, but as a general reference) toothy, but refined? More toothy? 

Right now I want to try out an aizu, but the price seems a bit steep, to be honest. Have around 2-300 budget..

Also Jon from recommended his synthetic natural, but both his 4k and 6k don't really feel like what I want.


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## osakajoe (Apr 4, 2019)

vicv said:


> I like the sigma select 2 3k. Gives a great toothy but refined edge and is very fast and stays flat



Signa medium stones are quite aggressive and do leave a nice bite to your edge. I do like the 3000 but own and use the 1,000. Just be aware the 1,000 both cuts and dishes fast. I don’t own the 3,000 because I have the Hayabusa which is a great finisher. 

My home use setup is the Sigma Select II #240 & #1000, and finishing on the Naniwa Hayabusa #4000


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## Grunt173 (Apr 4, 2019)

Humm,unless I am reading this wrong,you say you don't think the 4k or 6k is something you are interested in.Maybe you just need a Shapton Pro 2000 grit stone.Now there is some nice teeth with bite.I love this stone.I love my Gesshin 2k stone as well.Both are great stones. Sometimes I follow up with my JKI Synthetic Natural lightly for just a little refinement and then done or I may even lightly go to the Aizu. I just go with what feels good to me.


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## KingShapton (Apr 4, 2019)

Does the Sigma Select II #240 dishes fast as the #1000?


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## Stonetherapy (Apr 4, 2019)

Grunt173 said:


> Humm,unless I am reading this wrong,you say you don't think the 4k or 6k is something you are interested in.Maybe you just need a Shapton Pro 2000 grit stone.Now there is some nice teeth with bite.I love this stone.I love my Gesshin 2k stone as well.Both are great stones. Sometimes I follow up with my JKI Synthetic Natural lightly for just a little refinement and then done or I may even lightly go to the Aizu. I just go with what feels good to me.


+1, this is where i often find myself when sharpening.


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## lemeneid (Apr 4, 2019)

Illyria said:


> How does an aizu finish compared to a gesshin 4000? Or a King 4000? (obviously all are different, but as a general reference) toothy, but refined? More toothy?
> 
> Right now I want to try out an aizu, but the price seems a bit steep, to be honest. Have around 2-300 budget..
> 
> Also Jon from recommended his synthetic natural, but both his 4k and 6k don't really feel like what I want.


You can probably get an Aizu far cheaper. I got mine from BST for a very worthwhile and reasonable price.


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## osakajoe (Apr 4, 2019)

KingShapton said:


> Does the Sigma Select II #240 dishes fast as the #1000?



No the 1000 dishes faster. The 240 is a medium hard stone imo. It will dish but don’t apply extreme force to make it last longer. I’ve gone through several and some clog more often than others. Just lap it here and there and should be good.


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 4, 2019)

Michi said:


> Available on Amazon with and without base.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Suehiro-Fini...5000&qid=1554356791&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmrnull
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Suehiro-5000...5000&qid=1554356774&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull



Thanks Michi have not checked them out in a while had only seen the non base models. I had a couple of the older wood base 5K Rika's used at work they are long gone. Always did like that stone. I know it's just mental but prefer Rika's with a base


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## galvaude (Apr 4, 2019)

I have the Sigma Power Select II 3000, coarsest 3000 stone ever. Finishes like a Shapton Pro 2000 or even a chosera 1000.


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## JBroida (Apr 4, 2019)

Illyria said:


> How does an aizu finish compared to a gesshin 4000? Or a King 4000? (obviously all are different, but as a general reference) toothy, but refined? More toothy?
> 
> Right now I want to try out an aizu, but the price seems a bit steep, to be honest. Have around 2-300 budget..
> 
> Also Jon from recommended his synthetic natural, but both his 4k and 6k don't really feel like what I want.



For what it’s worth, the synthetic natural feels like a slightly softer and toothier gesshin 6k splash and go


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## refcast (Apr 4, 2019)

I have ikarashi which are bit too fine and slow for me. It possibly has the most consistent finish of my jnat stones . . . I mention this because the ikarashi and aizu mines are close, and Shinichi told me they're pretty similar.

Anyway, Illyria, did you check out the site page for Aizu on Watanabe Blade? There are plenty that are in the $200-300 range, and shipping shouldn't be too bad.

http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/aizu.htm

You should expect the stone to be very bitey . . . but perhaps you want a stone that is more muddy. At least that's what I would feel.

What I can compare is Gesshin 6k vs Ikarashi. So both finer than your Gesshin 4k vs aizu, but the appropriate analogues. I liked the Ikarashi more edge-wise and finish-wise, it was just slower, and the stone was kinda small and hard to use because the edges were champhered.


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## KCMande (Apr 4, 2019)

Illyria. 
If you are interested in trying out a Gesshin synth Nat, let me know, I'd be willing to let you borrow mine if you pay shipping both ways.


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## zizirex (Apr 5, 2019)

Morihei Hi 6000... it polish like 8k, but still have that toothy feel.


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## Benuser (Apr 5, 2019)

Naniwa Junpaku 'Snow-white' 8k. Like to jump to it from the Chosera 2k, which is rather aggressive. 
Love it for deburring and maintenance. 
Even with full sharpening it leaves a toothy edge.
Gives an huge tactile feedback, and is very fast if you've raised a bit of mud. 
Not the best polisher for single-bevelled though, but that's what others told me.


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## inferno (Apr 5, 2019)

Illyria said:


> How does an aizu finish compared to a gesshin 4000? Or a King 4000? (obviously all are different, but as a general reference) toothy, but refined? More toothy?
> 
> Right now I want to try out an aizu, but the price seems a bit steep, to be honest. Have around 2-300 budget..
> 
> Also Jon from recommended his synthetic natural, but both his 4k and 6k don't really feel like what I want.



I see lots of people recommending natural stones, but for 300 you could get like 6 shapton glass stones. or 4 or so chosera/pros.

I dont exactly know what you mean with toothy, and i guess we all have different definitions of this. but from my experience even up to 6k on my glass stones i can cut tomatos, bell peppers, chilis, and so one. Its like they're not even there. At 8 i start to see hesitation to break the skin. And then at 12 again its like they not even there. Just glides right through.

I'n my mind toothy = 1k  and its basically a fine saw.

Stones that i think are worth a look are the 3k and 4k glass, I have both of those and they are good. Lots of bite. The 3k will be more of a saw than the 4k obviously.
The 6k gray glass was also nice, I had no real problems with the knives hesitating on anything. I had no problems cutting anything without hesitation straight off the gray 8k either. But the results from that one looked shinier than off my 12k pro.

I have not tried it yet but the 4k gray glass might be very good. The gray ones polish a step or 2 above its grit rating and they give up cutting speed for this, not much but if you have 2 of the same grit (one gray, one white) you will notice it. 

Also the chosera or naniwa pro as they call them now seems good, the 3k seems to be a favorite with many. From experience these polish above their grit rating. I think my 1k was more like a 1500 and the 800 is above 1k, yet they still cut according to they grit rating, talking speed. I have heard they can crack. Mine have not cracked but I only had the lower grit ones. Not the 3k and 5k. The 5 and 10k seems to be notorious for cracking, ymmv I guess.


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## Grunt173 (Apr 5, 2019)

Yep.My Naniwa Pro 400, 800 and 3k all show spider web cracks even with extreme care and only using as splash and go. It does happen,how often? I don't know.


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## Illyria (Apr 6, 2019)

Ended up buying the 4k king and 8k nagura that my friend preached. Tried some of his other stones (Rika, couple of natural stones, chosera 3000, etc.) but the king was still my favorite finish.

Thinking of picking up a synthetic natural from Jon to try that out. Or maybe a finer natural finisher, but the prices just seem too high.


Thanks to everyone for the insights and recommendations. Learned a lot and appreciate the help.


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## rob (Apr 6, 2019)

Tend to agree with inferno. I would describe a toothy edge as lower grit, 1000-2000. At the moment I am sharpening most of my knives up to Chosera 3000 and then finishing very lightly on an 8000 followed with an extra light strop on kangaroo leather. Very sharp with a bit of initial bite!


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## bahamaroot (Apr 6, 2019)

Illyria said:


> ...Thinking of picking up a synthetic natural from Jon to try that out...


Synthetic natural...isn't that one of those oxymoron things?....


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## stringer (Apr 7, 2019)

I keep my work arsenal sharp primarily with a naniwa super stone 2000. I use it as a one stone solution. I have an almost worn out shapton glass 500 that I use to deglaze it every couple of minutes. Toothy but more polished than 2000 relatively. It looks pretty close to my shapton glass 4000. Although it doesn't feel that refined. But definitely still toothy.


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## Brandon Wicks (Apr 7, 2019)

I've been finishing on my Aoto more and more lately. Only use my Aiiwatani a couple time a week on my yanagi but sometimes I just leave it at the Aoto. Refined and toothy. I have a Oiishi 3000 for my home knives that does a bang up job for toothy edges.


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## Marek07 (Apr 7, 2019)

labor of love said:


> ... Which reminds me, I really need to clean the dust of my takashima.


Are you sure? Thought I bought it from you. Then again, you my have had multiples...


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## labor of love (Apr 7, 2019)

Marek07 said:


> Are you sure? Thought I bought it from you. Then again, you my have had multiples...


Really? I don’t remember that.


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## Marek07 (Apr 7, 2019)

labor of love said:


> Really? I don’t remember that.


You don't remember because it didn't happen - *sorry!* 
Mixed you up with another member.


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## KingShapton (Apr 7, 2019)

I love this thread.
I am always looking for new finishers in the medium range with lots of bite, I would like to find the optimum for me.

This thread has helped me a lot, I still had some stones as possible candidates in mind, some have been confirmed by this thread.

Disadvantage of this thread - I have to explain to my wife that new stones will come soon and that I still do not have enough of them ...


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## frank358fr (Apr 8, 2019)

Shapton Glass 3000


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## Illyria (May 1, 2019)

Finally gave in and bought the synthetic natural. 

Sharpened all of my knives and the initial impression is good. Taking it to work here in a bit to really try them out. 

Will post this week with a final impression.


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## NBrewster (May 2, 2019)

KingShapton said:


> I love this thread.
> 
> Disadvantage of this thread - I have to explain to my wife that new stones will come soon and that I still do not have enough of them ...



I will never forget the day I got my first flattening plate and had to explain "no this isn't for knives, this is a 'stone' to flatten the other stones"


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## ian (May 2, 2019)

Seriously. Thank god we don't have to buy flatteners for our flattening plates...


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## Illyria (Jun 6, 2019)

Have been using the synthetic natural over the last month. 

I found jumping from my Chosera 800 to it was too steep of a progression. 
Adding the King 4000 between the two makes the progression perfect. 

The final edge has, in my opinion, the perfect balance between refinement and toothiness for a professional kitchen.


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## Benuser (Jun 6, 2019)

Illyria said:


> Have been using the synthetic natural over the last month.
> 
> I found jumping from my Chosera 800 to it was too steep of a progression.
> Adding the King 4000 between the two makes the progression perfect.
> ...


How about edge retention?


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## Illyria (Jun 6, 2019)

The edge that it gives has a great edge retention, especially on my A2 Shihan blades.

It gives my Watanabe much better edge retention than the other finishing stones that I have tried.


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## Benuser (Jun 6, 2019)

OK, thanks!


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## Illyria (Jun 13, 2019)

Just did a 2 day trial in a 3 Michelin star restaurant. 

My first task was to cut a quart container of perfect brunoise chile.

The finish from the synth natural is perfect for pepper skins. The second day, my knife worked just as well. 

(Shihan A2 nakiri)


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## Slipstenar (Jun 25, 2019)

Well this is hard to say anything about...

How toothy do you want it?

I use the hardest nubatama ume 1000 for a toothy edge and strop on leather. Cuts protein like a champ. And holds the edge much longer than if you go higher in grit. 

If you want toothy but on the much finer side i go for one of my softer/muddy suita stones. But these the edge dulles alot faster because it's more acute.


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## hennyville (Jun 25, 2019)

i have very good results with AI1000-Aizu-Suita, i mean in pro kitchen.


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## Huntdad (Jun 25, 2019)

PM Badgertooth. He will hook you up and save you a ton of time and money!


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## captaincaed (May 24, 2022)

I’m digging this thread up out of the graveyard to ask @Illyria if he still likes the synth nat. I’ve been trying to love mine, but isn’t giving great tooth. Any recommendations for getting the most out of it?


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## Illyria (May 24, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> I’m digging this thread up out of the graveyard to ask @Illyria if he still likes the synth nat. I’ve been trying to love mine, but isn’t giving great tooth. Any recommendations for getting the most out of it?



I don't use it anymore. I didn't like how soft it was, despite liking the finish.

My current progression is my Gesshin 800 Vitrified diamond stone followed up with an aizu with an 8k King nagura slurry, or a natural stone I found (6-7kish) with an aizu nagura.

I'll see if I can dig it out to compare, as I honestly don't remember the finish too well.


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## captaincaed (May 24, 2022)

Illyria said:


> I don't use it anymore. I didn't like how soft it was, despite liking the finish.
> 
> My current progression is my Gesshin 800 Vitrified diamond stone followed up with an aizu with an 8k King nagura slurry, or a natural stone I found (6-7kish) with an aizu nagura.
> 
> I'll see if I can dig it out to compare, as I honestly don't remember the finish too well.


Thanks so much for the return to the old topic. I was excited about mine when I first got it, but enthusiasm waned when I had different options as well. I'll say the JKI lineup by and large is excellent. 

Even still, I may use it for friends knives, I think it's a nice option, but I don't think I'm getting as much out of it as others describe. Still want to nail it.


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## JPO (May 28, 2022)

A Tsushima jnat after a 2-3k works really well. It does not cut fast but it leaves a nice edge with bite. 
Vetrified Venev diamond plates gives you allot of bite with a mirror bevel. They are also nice for deburring and micro bevels.


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## Pikehaus (May 28, 2022)

I've heard from some that a jnat produces a toothier edge for the refinement it gives, due to the uneven stone texture. Not sure whether that's right though.


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## Tristan (May 28, 2022)

There are quite a few sciency threads on the differences of the polish under magnification. 
I have both low/mid grit Jnats and chosera/king, and for my money I always finish on jnats as I prefer the bite and how it cuts.


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## Wagnum (May 29, 2022)

For what it's worth I'm a big fan of the tooth off of a shapton glass 4000. It's very possible that I'm not taking all the teeth from the 1000 though


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## EricEricEric (May 29, 2022)

Binsui super inexpensive and super fast


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## JPO (May 29, 2022)

This is a 1k Morihei edge on a straight razor. This type of stone cut different then a pure synthetic. Notice that the bevel does not have deep striations like you get with other stones. Even the 12k Morihei leaves a little serrated apex. A jnat works a little similar, but it is really hard to find a good one in the 1 to 2 k range.
The Morihei strikes a good balance with the natural mix in the stone.
The razor grade jnats I have is way to fine to leave any tooth in the edge. Ref the second attached image.

The magnification is around 600.





1k Morihei




Nakayama asagi lv 5




9k Morihei (mirror finish to the naked eye)


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## branwell (Jun 2, 2022)

Don't forget you can do slurry in the opposite direction as well. For example, I feel the Morhei 4K with Suehiro Cerax 1K slurry not only leaves an awesome aggressive edge, but it also feels amazing to strop on.


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## JPO (Jun 2, 2022)

branwell said:


> Don't forget you can do slurry in the opposite direction as well. For example, I feel the Morhei 4K with Suehiro Cerax 1K slurry not only leaves an awesome aggressive edge, but it also feels amazing to strop on.


That would speed up the stone and give you an edge with bite. 
I have always used a slurry stone that is finer then the base stone. 
I have had mixed results with synthetic slurry, but I have never tried the cerax stones. 
Some stones have a binder that really eats up the edge. 
I have a 10k Suehiro that works quite well with the included slurry stone. Maybe they are using the same binder..


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