# Belgian Blue Whetstone



## cotedupy (May 11, 2022)

I posted a little while ago about coticules, but I think BBW deserves its own PSA thread. Because if anything... it’s even better.

Belgian Blue Whetstone might as well have been custom made for Japanese kitchen knives. It rolls around the mid 1000s, but works quicker than other comparable stones, cos garnets are well 'ard. It's soft enough to be easy to use, but not so soft as to make it tricky, or risk digging. Will work well with or without slurry, and even in fact - dry. Giving edges that are pitch perfect for knives; just a gorgeous combination of bite and finesse.






It already holds it's own with the best natural sharpening stones in the world, but here's the kicker: Belgian Blue Whetstone will bevel and kasumi polish in a way that puts many (most?) jnats to shame. While I'm aright at sharpening stuff, I'm a long way from being a polishing whiz, but even a novice like me can get here after just a couple of minutes on BBW:






That's not a special or unusual example either - all Belgian Blue does this. Plus it's easily available, and one of the cheapest natural stones out there. I'm amazed people don't talk about it more here. Who else is in the club...?


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## Martyn (May 11, 2022)

I have 4 BBWs (three standalone BBWs and a coticule/BBW combo). And yeah they are pretty great and very consistent and easy to use. and the feedback is pretty smooth as well.


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## Rainman890 (May 11, 2022)

Hey, are you talking about these: knife length blade 23 - 25 cm | Ardennes-Coticule

Would you recommend them to someone who has no experience with natural stones at all? I've been scared to jump down that hole... Anything special to take into account with these stones?


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## cotedupy (May 11, 2022)

Rainman890 said:


> Hey, are you talking about these: knife length blade 23 - 25 cm | Ardennes-Coticule
> 
> Would you recommend them to someone who has no experience with natural stones at all? I've been scared to jump down that hole... Anything special to take into account with these stones?




Yep those are the ones!

And also yes - they're incredibly easy to use, while also being among the very, very best natural stones around. If it were rarer people would be paying a lot of money for BBW I imagine.


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## Benuser (May 11, 2022)

I use them a lot for reviving an edge. A few edge leading strokes, and a few longitudinal ones for deburring. Grit is about 4k. Once a year I use the Atoma against glazing. The garnets take the burr without creating a new one. For sharpening kitchen knives the result may lack bite, for deburring only it is great. Works well with saliva.


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## deltaplex (May 11, 2022)

I'll second using saliva on them works really well. I think there's a ton of variation within the different layers, but the ones I've used are the ones I can get the best results on out of all of my stones, and I don't need to spend all that much time on them.


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## cotedupy (May 11, 2022)

Benuser said:


> I use them a lot for reviving an edge. A few edge leading strokes, and a few longitudinal ones for deburring. Grit is about 4k. Once a year I use the Atoma against glazing. The garnets take the burr without creating a new one. For sharpening kitchen knives the result may lack bite, for deburring only it is great. Works well with saliva.




This is a good point to note... I tend to use BBW with slurry raised either from a diamond plate or something else. Very aggressive edges that way, and bevel polishes well. Used without slurry they're going to cut and work slightly differently.


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## cotedupy (May 11, 2022)

deltaplex said:


> I'll second using saliva on them works really well. I think there's a ton of variation within the different layers, but the ones I've used are the ones I can get the best results on out of all of my stones, and I don't need to spend all that much time on them.




Ah good to hear another fan! Genuinely out of all the various types of natural stones I have (don't ask) - BBW along with Washitas and Turkish are my favourites and most used for knives.


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## deltaplex (May 11, 2022)

I need that group buy on a Cretan stone to come together...


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## Benuser (May 11, 2022)

As Belgian Blue is a by-product of the rare Coticule mining it comes in huge quantities which makes it very affordable, at least here Europe.


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## cotedupy (May 11, 2022)

Benuser said:


> As Belgian Blue is a by-product of the rare Coticule mining it comes it huge quantities which makes it very affordable, at least here Europe.




I may be wrong about this, but from what I've been told/understand: By far and away the main business of AC is quarrying clay for brickmaking. Which presumably massively subsidises both yellow and blue coticules... (?)


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## riba (May 11, 2022)

I lent a bbw to a former colleague pre-covid. He is ignoring any request to return it ..

Guess he appreciates it


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## cotedupy (May 11, 2022)

riba said:


> I lent a bbw to a former colleague pre-covid. He is ignoring any request to return it ..
> 
> Guess he appreciates it




@riba 's colleague knows where it's at! And they're even cheaper if you can 'borrow' one .


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## Rainman890 (May 11, 2022)

Thanks for all the help! Stupid question - what's the difference between the Coticule and the BBW? And all the different shapes? So many choices! Is there a good thread on this stuff, or can you just tell me which one to buy and start using?


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## deltaplex (May 11, 2022)

A very simplified answer: Cotis are cream colored (top) and BBWs are blueish/purpleish colored (bottom) stones cut from the same layers of rock. BBWs are (generally) quicker and less fine and Cotis are (again, generally) slower and more fine. They often (but not always) come naturally bonded together as the Coti layer is fragile and the BBW layer helps to stabilize it:


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## deltaplex (May 11, 2022)

You can spend time trolling auction sites for vintage stones, but you can buy direct from Ardennes Coticule if you want to get one quickly to test it out.


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## Rainman890 (May 11, 2022)

Yeah, strongly thinking about it, but not sure I have the time to get into natural stones... I might bite the bullet and do it anyways though...


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## brimmergj (May 11, 2022)

A short while ago I bought a set off eBay that contained a Coticule (150x40), BBW/La Pyranees combo (150x40), coticule and BBW slurry stones. I keep the Coticule and BBW combo stones in my knife drawer and they are great for touch-ups. I splash with water over the sink and use them in my hand and do some light edge trailing strokes followed by even lighter edge leading strokes.
I haven't tried them for polishing yet. Some day...
I found the set for around $160 which I thought was a good deal for 3 stones, 2 slurry stones and box.


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## Grayswandir (May 11, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> I posted a little while ago about coticules, but I think BBW deserves its own PSA thread. Because if anything... it’s even better.
> 
> Belgian Blue Whetstone might as well have been custom made for Japanese kitchen knives. It rolls around the mid 1000s, but works quicker than other comparable stones, cos garnets are well 'ard. It's soft enough to be easy to use, but not so soft as to make it tricky, or risk digging. Will work well with or without slurry, and even in fact - dry. Giving edges that are pitch perfect for knives; just a gorgeous combination of bite and finesse.
> 
> ...



Wow cotedupy, very nice looking polish job, better then a lot I've seen to be honest.


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## sansho (May 11, 2022)

Rainman890 said:


> Hey, are you talking about these: knife length blade 23 - 25 cm | Ardennes-Coticule
> 
> Would you recommend them to someone who has no experience with natural stones at all? I've been scared to jump down that hole... Anything special to take into account with these stones?



i'm in the same boat. never used a natural stone but have always been curious to. this seems like a decent place to start.

i wonder where to buy as a US online shopper? the site linked above?


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## esoo (May 11, 2022)

No affiliation: Search


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## blokey (May 11, 2022)

Anyone have the experience with the one sold by sharpening supplies? I'm looking for a nice polishing stone and BBW seems to be the sweet spot.


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## musicman980 (May 11, 2022)

Rainman890 said:


> Thanks for all the help! Stupid question - what's the difference between the Coticule and the BBW? And all the different shapes? So many choices! Is there a good thread on this stuff, or can you just tell me which one to buy and start using?


Coticules most often have a larger quantity of smaller sized garnets than the BBW, making the coticule both faster and finer. This is why it’s so prized compared to the BBW.


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## Benuser (May 12, 2022)

blokey said:


> Anyone have the experience with the one sold by sharpening supplies? I'm looking for a nice polishing stone and BBW seems to be the sweet spot.


You should be well aware of the kind of polish a BB offers: it isn't the bright — some will call it aggressive — shining a synthetic stone offers.


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## blokey (May 12, 2022)

Benuser said:


> You should be well aware of the kind of polish a BB offers: it isn't the bright — some will call it aggressive —shining a synthetic stone offers.


Thanks, I looked at OP's example and it looked like what I wanted, a nice Kasumi finish, if I get one I probably going to use it after synthetic progression polishes.


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## milangravier (May 12, 2022)

I am quite a fan of belgium stones for sharpening. Almost all my sharpenings are finished on a yellow coticule. Belgium Blue is maybe my second choice here but it is just a little bit coarser and a little bit softer, I think it is a matter of preference.
Polishing with coticule is not something I do : finish out of it is quite harsh. Meaning you will get a nice kasumi (strong contrast) and some details in the clad. But the iron and the steel will have a scratch pattern showing off versus some Jnats will give you a smoother finish, scratch pattern will be finer or almost scratch free look. But cotedupuy made me curious, so I just tried again on that test knife.
Here are few pictures I just did. First 2 are a finish with belgium blue. Second 2 are finish with belgium yellow (so you can see that you will get a little bit more refine but not like super refine finish using the yellow). Last 2 are maruoyama shiro suita (jnat) I just used after the yellow. It would need more time to get a very nice and even finish but you can already see the jnat is starting to make a smoother finish


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## sansho (May 12, 2022)

those all look good to me.


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## Rainman890 (May 12, 2022)

@milangravier - How do the edges differ? Or are they more or less similar, and the different finishes are more for the visual aspects?

(sorry, complete newbie, trying to understand...)


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## superworrier (May 12, 2022)

sansho said:


> those all look good to me.


I thought they looked the same until I looked at the bottom left corner, where you can see the scratches. I imagine it's probably easier to see in real life too


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## milangravier (May 12, 2022)

Yeah, sorry if the pictures don't give enough info. True you can look at all parts of the bevel because bottom left corner is giving a view of the scratch pattern more obviously. If you look from far, any kasumi finish will look nice and contrasty. Comparing the finish and the scratch pattern close up, you can see differences and I hope the pictures can show you that.
Blue belgium is the coarsest no question about that. Scratch pattern for me is around 2k or 3k maybe. It is nice. It will look comparable to a natsuya maybe.
Yellow coticule is a little bit more refine but finish is like maybe 4k/5k not above (those stones are used by razors guy normally and they should go far higher in grit, I think that depend of the way you use it, mud dilution etc).
Maruoyama is maybe a 6k, but it's just completly different way to abrade iron and steel. Coticule really show the scratch pattern versus the Maruoyama will hide it. On iron, you will have a scratch pattern, but on steel if you work enough time you can have a bright hazy scratchless look finish.


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## milangravier (May 12, 2022)

Hello,
Here is a link to the picture on google drive, if it is allowed to do that : Meet Google Drive – One place for all your files


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## milangravier (May 12, 2022)

Rainman890 said:


> @milangravier - How do the edges differ? Or are they more or less similar, and the different finishes are more for the visual aspects?
> 
> (sorry, complete newbie, trying to understand...)


Belgium blue and Belgium yellow coticule will give same type of edge because they are same type of stone. Belgium blue will be a little coarser being something like 2k/4k (depending of the way you use it), Yellow coticule will be finer grit so more refined edges, about 5k/8k (depend how you use it).
Maruo shiro suita is about 6k/8k but being a very different stone. Bonding and type of abrasive is different. So you will get a more clean and refine edge.
That's why I am sharpening on yellow coticule : you get quite a refine edge but it is far more agressive (I think because of the garnets) than a Jnat in the same grit.


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## captaincaed (May 12, 2022)

@milangravie do you still find any larger, two layer coticule in France? I started using a blue for edges about a year ago, and I've wanted to find a combination stone ever since. Hard to find in the US. 

Thank you for the pro opinions and pictures, it's really cool to see the direct comparison to Japanese stones.


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## HumbleHomeCook (May 12, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> @milangravie do you still find any larger, two layer coticule in France? I started using a blue for edges about a year ago, and I've wanted to find a combination stone ever since. Hard to find in the US.
> 
> Thank you for the pro opinions and pictures, it's really cool to see the direct comparison to Japanese stones.



Is this what you're after?






Belgian Coticule Razor Hone


Belgian Coticule stones in stock. For those that want the very best! Grit: extra-extra fine 8000 grit.




www.bestsharpeningstones.com





EDIT: Never mind, I thought that was a Blue and Coticule combo but I was wrong.


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## deltaplex (May 12, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> @milangravie do you still find any larger, two layer coticule in France? I started using a blue for edges about a year ago, and I've wanted to find a combination stone ever since. Hard to find in the US.
> 
> Thank you for the pro opinions and pictures, it's really cool to see the direct comparison to Japanese stones.


I regularly see ~7x2" or larger natural combos on auction sites, just matters how the price ends up. If you look regularly you can find one that's at or below what it would cost you from A-C/Etsy/US based vendor.


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## cotedupy (May 12, 2022)

All very interesting to hear and see people's experiences! 

I'm going to offer a slightly different take though. I've only had 8 or 10 CotixBBW stones, so I'm sure others have more experience, but here are my general impressions (perhaps 'generalisations'). FWIW - most of the stones I've had have been natural combis, maybe other BBW can differ (?)

---

Yellow coticule has more variation than BBW. I have a yellow coti that is notably coarser than any BBW I've had, and another that's finer than any of them. But as an average I think they're actually quite similar. BBW will finish a razor pretty happily.

Yellow coticule is generally quicker than BBW. You do get some very slow yellow stones, but more often than not BBW is slower for sharpening. Both stones I'd consider quite quick in comparison to most jnats I've tried at a similar level.

While I'm sure that the speed is in part to do with the amount of abrasive garnet in the stone, I'm also certain it's to do with the shape. If you look at how aggressive and deep a jigane scrath pattern off yellow coticule is compared to BBW you can see this quite clearly. As a substance BBW is more argillite or slate-like; the particles in it are more rounded I think, and it makes it a better polishing stone than the yellow. 

---

Here's a quick jigane comparison I did recently off two sides of the same stone. These deeper scratches on the yellow side haven't come from having finer abrasive (obviously), or more abrasive, it's come from_ pointier, sharper _abrasive. And I reckon that's what makes them quicker.

Yellow:







Blue:







---

Anyhoo... that was all just speculation really! Here's another little look at the Maz polish from my original post. I think BBW is a pretty classy kasumi stone .











Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## captaincaed (May 12, 2022)

Are there auction sites other than ebay?


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## deltaplex (May 12, 2022)

Sure, but ebay is where I spend most of my bargain hunting time.


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## cotedupy (May 12, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> @milangravie do you still find any larger, two layer coticule in France? I started using a blue for edges about a year ago, and I've wanted to find a combination stone ever since. Hard to find in the US.
> 
> Thank you for the pro opinions and pictures, it's really cool to see the direct comparison to Japanese stones.



You wanna come to Aus mate! This is the other side of the BBW stone I was using here:10 x 2.5" of (probably) La Veinette. Twenty of your finest Australian dollars earlier this year 







The coticule side of this stone is just extraordinary, and perhaps the most perplexing whetstone I have. It's pretty much the finest finishing coti I've ever used, and it's _certainly _the fastest. Lots of them are quite quick, but this will do material removal like a Washita or sub 1k synth, while leaving an edge in high 1000s.

I really don't understand what's going on with it tbh. I'll make a video sometime - it's quite impressive to see!


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## esoo (May 12, 2022)

Here's a combo that I got PIF'ed when I was getting into straights. 





Never really focussed on trying to get an edge off it yet. The few times I've tried I've always felt that I've done better on synths, but that may be inexperience talking.


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## captaincaed (May 12, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> You wanna come to Aus mate! This is the other side of the BBW stone I was using here:10 x 2.5" of (probably) La Veinette. Twenty of your finest Australian dollars earlier this year
> 
> View attachment 179243
> 
> ...


How many ways can I say "I hate you" 



I think the US is just getting a bit picked over tbh. Keep seeing good stuff in the other crown colonies.


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## Benuser (May 12, 2022)

Twenty AUD...
For those interested in using BB for sharpening: to my great surprise it was no problem at all to jump from a Shapton Glass 320 to the Belgian Blue as a final stone, and it didn't take more time than with a single next synthetic stone in a much longer progression.
Concerning deburring: ended the sharpening of a Tojiro DP — VG-10 —after the Naniwa Pro 800 successfully with longitudinal strokes on Belgian Blue. I normally use at least two finer synthetics. Again, it's the absence of aggressivity of the almost round garnets: just enough to catch a burr, not enough to create a new one, the common nightmare, even with the lightest touch.


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## Desert Rat (May 12, 2022)

I have never taken a shine to the BB but it might just be because I don't really have one suitable for knife work. I have a few natural combos but they are really razor hone in size. I did notice that one is soft, one middleing and one hard. I think I will lap and see what I come up with.


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## cotedupy (May 12, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> How many ways can I say "I hate you"
> 
> 
> 
> I think the US is just getting a bit picked over tbh. Keep seeing good stuff in the other crown colonies.



Coming from the man who can't leave the house without tripping over another Pike Washita, or stubbing his toe on a Lily White! .

But yeah - it is a fairly happy hunting place here for nice old stones, and certainly in part because there are just fewer people interested in them. The three cotis I have atm, are all bench size natural combis, and for each of them I was the only bidder. $50 in total I think. All good stones, but that massive one is just something else, I don't know anything else like it, it swarfs up like an SG500.

The slight downside being that people seemed to use them mostly for tools, and they tend to be quite dished / beaten up, especially on the coticule side. I actually found another slightly smaller one yesterday where the coti had been almost completely worn through:


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## cotedupy (May 12, 2022)

Benuser said:


> it's the absence of aggressivity of the almost round garnets




Is this accepted wisdom with regards to BBW then? When I said the same above, that was just hunch from using them, and comparing the difference against how I felt yellow coticule was cutting. I'm sure the yellow does have a higher proportion of garnets in it too as people say, but they certainly seem sharper to me too, and why I prefer BBW for aesthetic finishing.


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## bsfsu (May 12, 2022)

I was thinning a knife today so I gave it a polish with my BBW.
The Damascus cladding popped out nicely. I gave the whole knives a bit of garnet love and I like the finish. I had to even out the finish with a bit of 1200 wet n dry 

Original








During King 320





After garnet's over the whole thing




After evening the polish with 1200 wet n dry (I cover the sandpaper in 800 slurry and smear away)












Sharpened it with a Washita and finished on a Turkish


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## captaincaed (May 12, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Coming from the man who can't leave the house without tripping over another Pike Washita, or stubbing his toe on a Lily White! .


Two stones! Slander, slander I say!

Naw it’s true I’ve had some good fortune recently and I’m grateful for it. I’m actually starting to turn a few back into the wild.

I’ve been using the Llyn Myrellen (can’t remember how to spell it) in the kitchen recently, and liking what I see so far. Getting some good edges giving no-hesitation bite with tomatoes


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## blokey (May 13, 2022)

Just found out knifecenter in US also sells Ardennes Coticule sotnes



https://www.knifecenter.com/item/ARD910/ardennes-coticule-belgian-blue-whetstone-large-7-875-x-2-inch-wooden-storage-box


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## Benuser (May 13, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Is this accepted wisdom with regards to BBW then? When I said the same above, that was just hunch from using them, and comparing the difference against how I felt yellow coticule was cutting. I'm sure the yellow does have a higher proportion of garnets in it too as people say, but they certainly seem sharper to me too, and why I prefer BBW for aesthetic finishing.


The difference between BB and Coticule is not only in the amount of garnets, but as well in the matrix — slate vs. clay — allowing much faster freeing of the garnets in the case of the Coticule. I happen to have a small soft one which allows me to make a thick paste full of unbroken garnets: it eats steel. Even an abrasion resistant soft stainless like Victorinox SAK. The unbroken garnets have a grit in the 20 micron size, equivalent to a JIS 800. With BB, you never get them unbroken.


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## Rainman890 (May 13, 2022)

Ugh. This thread is evil. Just ordered a BBW from Schleifstein Deluxe- Original Belgischer Brocken online kaufen - slightly cheaper than the direct site in Belgium. Here we go down another rabbit hole.


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## cotedupy (May 13, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> Two stones! Slander, slander I say!
> 
> Naw it’s true I’ve had some good fortune recently and I’m grateful for it. I’m actually starting to turn a few back into the wild.
> 
> I’ve been using the Llyn Myrellen (can’t remember how to spell it) in the kitchen recently, and liking what I see so far. Getting some good edges giving no-hesitation bite with tomatoes




It was an interesting stone that one wasn't it. I assume it was a Welsh Llyn Melynllyn () type slate. Though it was certainly coarser and more knife-suitable than some of them seem to be. Big old chunk of rock too!


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## musicman980 (May 13, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> You wanna come to Aus mate! This is the other side of the BBW stone I was using here:10 x 2.5" of (probably) La Veinette. Twenty of your finest Australian dollars earlier this year
> 
> View attachment 179243
> 
> ...


That looks so creamy, side pics??


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## hendrix (May 13, 2022)

1Stone in France has a nice selection of coticules and BBW's also.


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## cotedupy (May 13, 2022)

musicman980 said:


> That looks so creamy, side pics??




Yeah very creamy both in colour and feel in use, but then it's absurdly quick as soon as you put a blade on it.

Here are a couple of shots from a just after I'd cleaned it up when I got. I've flattened it a bit since then, but it's still slightly dished / 'V' Shape. I basically have 5 inches flat from either end now, meeting in the middle, so I can work the ends to even it over time.

From reading through G&H4 I suspected it might be La Veinette, and then saw on B&B that everybody loved LaV, which would make sense as this is a truly remarkable stone. A couple of experts there said I was probably right, but couldn't say with 100% certainty. Dunno what you reckon? You know your way round a coticule I believe...


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## simona (May 14, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> @milangravie do you still find any larger, two layer coticule in France? I started using a blue for edges about a year ago, and I've wanted to find a combination stone ever since. Hard to find in the US.
> 
> Thank you for the pro opinions and pictures, it's really cool to see the direct comparison to Japanese stones.


Have bought a knife from this company - super quick service.








Belgian bench stones | Dictum


A selection of Belgian bench stones at specialist retailer DICTUM.




www.dictum.com


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## Nemo (May 14, 2022)

I hate this thread 

It's making me think that I need a Coticule and a Belgian Blue.

Or maybe three.

@cotedupy Where does one find these amazing deals on cotis in Au?


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## Benuser (May 14, 2022)

simona said:


> Have bought a knife from this company - super quick service.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Serious, very serious guys and gals.


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## simona (May 14, 2022)

Benuser said:


> Serious, very serious guys and gals.


Indeed. I have also used this company, another group of, as you say, serious folk.





Dieter Schmid Fine Tools


Home of quite possibly the world's finest selection of outstanding woodworking tools and accessories, Japanese kitchen knives, gardening implements and interesting books. Friendly service, fast shipping and excellent selection!



www.fine-tools.com


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## simona (May 14, 2022)

simona said:


> Indeed. I have also used this company, another group of, as you say, serious folk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Super helpful, fast service, shopping guarantee, great advice.


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## cotedupy (May 14, 2022)

Nemo said:


> I hate this thread
> 
> It's making me think that I need a Coticule and a Belgian Blue.
> 
> ...



Haha... the three big natural combis I've kept atm have all actually been Aus ebay. Though I would have to strongly advise against looking there, as I quite enjoy having the place to myself .

Salvage yards and antiques shops are good too, especially if you can befriend the owner. There's a very nice guy in Adelaide who sells vintage tools and stuff, and has found me some amazing stones. Same day I received that big coti above I popped into his shop later, and got a 10" Yellow-Green Thuringian for a fiver (!)

Whatever way - you should definitely try to pick one up sometime. The combination of Coticule and Belgian Blue is an _extremely _good kitchen knife stone. Quite why people insist on thinking of them as razor stones is beyond me; they have to use all sorts of wizardry, slurry breakdown, and dilution techniques to get a half decent razor edge, while for knives they're just perfect as is.


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## cotedupy (May 14, 2022)

bsfsu said:


> I was thinning a knife today so I gave it a polish with my BBW.
> The Damascus cladding popped out nicely. I gave the whole knives a bit of garnet love and I like the finish. I had to even out the finish with a bit of 1200 wet n dry
> 
> Original
> ...




^This right here^... Holy Trinity of knife sharpening stones. I use those three (/ four) types more than everything else put together.


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## cotedupy (May 14, 2022)

I noticed @milangravier did a very interesting comparison above with a Maruoyama Shiro Suita, which happens to be one of the few fancy jnats I own too, so I thought I'd have a little look at how mine compared on the same knife.








Now the MSS is a world class kasumi stone, with a reputation and price tag to match, so I feared this was going to be a little bit of an unfair comparison against the humble Belgian Blue, but in many ways the results weren't a million miles from each other. I probably don't have a good enough phone camera to capture the differences particularly well, but I'll try to describe them...

The Maruo is also quite an easy stone to use and get good results, with water management it will self slurry nicely and there's no further trickery required. With the BBW I was working with low pressure and slurry on the jigane, and then higher pressure and more water to brighten the hagane (maybe that's how people always polish?), but the MSS does this automatically. It's a very good stone for hagane, and if I worked longer it'll go a lot more mirror than this. BBW by comparison leaves a darker jigane with less shine, the contrast is probably more notable, but the overall effect is less delicate, and the finish a little less lucent than than the Japanese stone. Both very nice though I think.













---

In terms of sharpening the Maruo acts as one might expect from a med-fine Japanese stone, i.e. slooooowly. BBW may not be quite as fast as it's yellow brethren, but it's a considerable step up on the MSS. Though in part that's because the MSS is finer, I'd say around 7k vs BBW at around 4-5k.

TBH I don't often use it for sharpening, usually just when I sell the occasional yanagi. In my mind it has that jnat tendency to produce edges that lean too much toward refinement over bite for my personal tastes on normal kitchen knives. But using it again yesterday I was surprised - though this is a very fine edge, there is still some grip left to it, and I think people who like higher grit finishes would think the result rather good. I don't know if this might be anything to with the Maz being Shiro 2, whereas most knives I sharpen are the slightly higher alloy and hardness paper steels, mostly Aogami 2 and Super. Any steel experts out there know if that makes any sense? (Probably doesn't tbh, I'm just speculating).

Nevertheless there are a lot of better options for sharpening knives out there, including Belgian Blue. For polishing though the Maruo is a very smart bit of kit. Is it worth a grillion times more than the more versatile BBW? Undoubtedly not. But equally - yes of course it is. Depends what you're looking for .


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## Simon082 (May 18, 2022)

Sounds like a BBW is worth playing with.

I had a coticule that wasn't agreeing with me once, it was fast but way to soft and crumbly and put me off from ardennes, also had an ebay find that was insanely to hard and cut to slowly, my favourite charnley was leagues ahead, even an hindustan was faster. 

So makes me think I could be missing out, also like that you can get them 70mm wide. 

And you're not alone on how a knife edge feels with different stones, can't explain it.


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## Rainman890 (May 18, 2022)

So mine just came in, one silly question: is it a soaker or a splash and go? From this thread I think it's splash, but maybe I need to soak it first or something?


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## Simon082 (May 18, 2022)

Rainman890 said:


> So mine just came in, one silly question: is it a soaker or a splash and go? From this thread I think it's splash, but maybe I need to soak it first or something?


Definitely splash and go.


----------



## Benuser (May 18, 2022)

Simon082 said:


> Definitely splash and go.


Spit and go.


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## Simon082 (May 18, 2022)

Benuser said:


> Spit and go.


As long as you got the saliva production, bench size stone gonna take some spitting.


----------



## Homechef (May 18, 2022)

Rainman890 said:


> So mine just came in, one silly question: is it a soaker or a splash and go? From this thread I think it's splash, but maybe I need to soak it first or something?


I bought one too...Thanks @cotedupy for the reco. Not quite as cool as you, but I took my paper towel cut from about halfway to about 3cm short of through. I feel like if I switch to store brand I could make it all the way 

Splash and go worked for me. I started with a King 1000 to set a fresh edge then with the BBW, worked up a slurry and just did a couple quick minutes on each side of the knife. Mine is only the blue variety and doesn't have yellow coticule.


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## cotedupy (May 18, 2022)

Simon082 said:


> I had a coticule that wasn't agreeing with me once, it was fast but way to soft and crumbly and put me off from ardennes, also had an ebay find that was insanely to hard and cut to slowly, my favourite charnley was leagues ahead, even an hindustan was faster.



Oh dear! Sounds like you had some bad luck with the yellows. I've only had a couple that I didn't think that good for knives, both because they were of the hard n slow variety. So maybe 3/4 of the ones I've had have been good.

BBW is (ime) a bit more consistent in terms of how it cuts, and the grit level. I've not seen any mega coarse and quick, or super slow and fine BBWs, whereas yellow coticule bounces around the place a bit.




Homechef said:


> I bought one too...Thanks @cotedupy for the reco. Not quite as cool as you, but I took my paper towel cut from about halfway to about 3cm short of through. I feel like if I switch to store brand I could make it all the way
> 
> Splash and go worked for me. I started with a King 1000 to set a fresh edge then with the BBW, worked up a slurry and just did a couple quick minutes on each side of the knife. Mine is only the blue variety and doesn't have yellow coticule.




Nice work. They're quite easy stones to like I think, as you get great results quite easily, and they're fairly inexpensive. I was fairly confident with the OP that I wasn't going to have a load of people saying I was an idiot and talking complete nonsense, which is rarely a certainty otherwise . Glad you like!


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## Simon082 (May 19, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Oh dear! Sounds like you had some bad luck with the yellows. I've only had a couple that I didn't think that good for knives, both because they were of the hard n slow variety. So maybe 3/4 of the ones I've had have been good.
> 
> BBW is (ime) a bit more consistent in terms of how it cuts, and the grit level. I've not seen any mega coarse and quick, or super slow and fine BBWs, whereas yellow coticule bounces around the place a bit.


To be honest I have had bad luck with all natural stones, but find good ones and there great.


cotedupy said:


> Nice work. They're quite easy stones to like I think, as you get great results quite easily, and they're fairly inexpensive. I was fairly confident with the OP that I wasn't going to have a load of people saying I was an idiot and talking complete nonsense, which is rarely a certainty otherwise . Glad you like!


A good natural stone beats any synthetic in my opinion. Good charnleys are magical, washita are cheap and consistent, hindustans surprise me everytime, dalmore blues are fast with slurry and water and also easy to find.

Jnats are to expensive and over rated.


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## Miguelito's Blade (May 26, 2022)

Well I bit. I ordered one of each.


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## Benuser (May 27, 2022)

Rainman890 said:


> So mine just came in, one silly question: is it a soaker or a splash and go? From this thread I think it's splash, but maybe I need to soak it first or something?


You may first dress it. Some come very polished. I use an Atoma 140 with water before first use. Makes raising a bit of mud much easier.


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## Nemo (Jun 24, 2022)

I got my delivery from AC today.

My Nakagawa Blue1 needed a touch up, so it got first go.

The sharpening experience on the BB is quite interesting. It is a hard stone that releases a bit of mud but is definitely not a muddy stone. Quite similar mud to Chosera 3k. The mud smells earthy, a bit like some Japanese naturals.

Feedback is quite good, especially the aural feedback, even if it is a bit 'screechy'. Tactile feedback is a bit strange. It almost felt like I had bits of broken burr in the mud between the stone and the knife, but there were none. I guess it's the feeling of tiny balls rolling under the knife? This was less pronounced when almost sharpened. Maybe that is part of the feedback?

Burr formation is tiny. I didn't know whether to reduce the burr, so I did (gradually reducing pressure then a longitudinal stroke). However, I didn't do any edge leading strokes and didn't repeat the last few pressure levels as I would with a synthetic.

It's seems a bit slower than a fine synthetic (say, a Chosera 3k). Even a little slower than Naniwa 6k diamond. Maybe similar to a fineish jnat? It could be that I kept going after it was already sharp because I couldn't use burr formation as an endpoint.

Results were pretty good. Very sharp. No indication of residual burr on paper towel. The edge is certainly finer than Chosera 3K. It's been so long since I used anything finer (except Naniwa 6k diamond, which I only use for high alloy steels) that I can't really compare the edge to something finer (say, a Kitayama).

I also polished the wide bevels. Quite a bit of contrast and overall quite bright, almost semi- mirror, without quite the cloudiness of some jnats. I had a few deep scratches in mine, a bit more like @cotedupy 's effort with the coticule. Not sure if this means that my BB has a higher concentration of smaller sharper garnets or maybe I'm just showcasing my lacklustre polishing skills.

I also sharpened my utility knife (made this at @Kippington 's forge out of 15N20 IIRC). It's sharpened at almost 30dps. It cut through paper towel without a problem, something that it has not done before sharpened at this angle.

I also bought a small stone for for my stainless veggie peelers. Took a while to sharpen them but they are very sharp now. So good to have sharp veggie peelers.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with these stones, especially the burr minimisation. Thanks @cotedupy for the PSA.


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## inferno (Jun 24, 2022)

Nemo said:


> Feedback is quite good, especially the aural feedback, even if it is a bit 'screechy'. Tactile feedback is a bit strange. It almost felt like I had bits of broken burr in the mud between the stone and the knife, but there were none. I guess it's the feeling of tiny balls rolling under the knife?





Nemo said:


> I also polished the wide bevels. Quite a bit of contrast and overall quite bright, almost semi- mirror, without quite the cloudiness of some jnats. I had a few deep scratches in mine, a bit more like @cotedupy 's effort with the coticule. Not sure if this means that my BB has a higher concentration of smaller sharper garnets or maybe I'm just showcasing my lacklustre polishing skills.



my newly mined cotis feel the same, they also make that sound! crushing tiny balls. 

i get good contrast out of my cotis, almost without stray scratches, but those tiny balls sometimes break through. atleast thats what it feels like.


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## LostHighway (Jun 24, 2022)

Has anyone tried these on more abrasion resistant steels like 1.2562, SG2, S35VN, XHP or MagnaCut?


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## inferno (Jun 24, 2022)

even the cotis are quite slow on harder higher alloyed stuff. 

i think i tried r2 and srs15 on my cotis and iirc it had almost no effect at all.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 24, 2022)

Been playing around with a Belgian Blue myself recently and have discovered how much I love it. I use a little diamond plate to work up a slurry before sharpening and then go from there. Really clean and crisp edges like others have said, surprised myself a bit on how quickly I had a hair popping edge shaving up and down my arm. Really good. Definitely holding onto this one….or actually buying a bigger one but yeah I dig it, prefer it to the Jnats I’ve tried and you can buy a bench stone sized one for like $100. Crazy deal and can’t image wearing through one anytime, would last forever like a good sized jnat would 

Also if you haven’t tried it on Blue steel or Blue Super you totally should. One of my favorite edges I’ve ever made is Shapton 1.5k right to Belgian Blue and then quick strop on kangaroo tail strop or cardboard. Been using this edge on some Blue Super and Murata Blue #1 and it’s outstanding.


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## cotedupy (Jun 25, 2022)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Been playing around with a Belgian Blue myself recently and have discovered how much I love it.





Nemo said:


> Thanks @cotedupy for the PSA.




No worries. Good to hear that some of the seasoned pros like them as much as I do!

For polishing stuff I always work from a slurried stone, usually atoma or sometimes a BBW nagura, because obviously they don't really self slurry. According to the kind of razor people who look at stuff under microscopes, this has the effect of breaking up the garnet, and as you work the mud it kinda rounds and smooths out further. Like this I've found that almost every BBW I've used will give a very nice finish on cladding, with basically no visible scratch pattern. I'm definitely not an expert polisher myself, but I do find them very good, and quite easy to use for it.

@Nemo - ping me a message if you'd like a little BBW slurry stone. I have a piece that I'm going to cut the end off this weekend, and can send you a bit if you fancy. Works nicely on all sorts of stones.


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## riba (Jun 25, 2022)

LostHighway said:


> Has anyone tried these on more abrasion resistant steels like 1.2562, SG2, S35VN, XHP or MagnaCut?


For R2 edge sharpening, 1K to coticule works well for me


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## Nemo (Jun 25, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> No worries. Good to hear that some of the seasoned pros like them as much as I do!
> 
> For polishing stuff I always work from a slurried stone, usually atoma or sometimes a BBW nagura, because obviously they don't really self slurry. According to the kind of razor people who look at stuff under microscopes, this has the effect of breaking up the garnet, and as you work the mud it kinda rounds and smooths out further. Like this I've found that almost every BBW I've used will give a very nice finish on cladding, with basically no visible scratch pattern. I'm definitely not an expert polisher myself, but I do find them very good, and quite easy to use for it.
> 
> @Nemo - ping me a message if you'd like a little BBW slurry stone. I have a piece that I'm going to cut the end off this weekend, and can send you a bit if you fancy. Works nicely on all sorts of stones.


I certainly can't claim to be a pro.

I'll try with a bit more mud next time.

Thanks for your generous offer but I actually bought a smaller BB to use on veggie peelers that I reckon will do this job well. And it will keep it flat to boot.


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## cotedupy (Jun 25, 2022)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Also if you haven’t tried it on Blue steel or Blue Super you totally should. One of my favorite edges I’ve ever made is Shapton 1.5k right to Belgian Blue and then quick strop on kangaroo tail strop or cardboard. Been using this edge on some Blue Super and Murata Blue #1 and it’s outstanding.




The large majority of stuff I sharpen is A2 and AS. Perhaps this is why I rate BBW so highly - it’s certainly an incredible stone on those steels!

(Though actually the Maz in a lot of my pictures on this thread is Shirogami, and it’s great for that too ).


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## Nemo (Jun 25, 2022)

Looks like the next knives to re-enter my rotation will be Shiro Kamo AS and Sukenari AS.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 25, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> The large majority of stuff I sharpen is A2 and AS. Perhaps this is why I rate BBW so highly - it’s certainly an incredible stone on those steels!
> 
> (Though actually the Maz in a lot of my pictures on this thread is Shirogami, and it’s great for that too ).


Agree 100% it's really outstanding on those steels, also SLD is really nice with BBW as well. I tried it on some white steel as well and it's great as well but it didn't feel as "magically delicious" as it did on the Blue stuff. I'm thinking it's because White is so easy to deburr and get a crazy sharp and nice edge that I don't notice how much better the BBW edge finish is vs. like Blue or SLD that takes a little more work to deburr sometimes and the BBW just does magic then.


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## bsfsu (Jun 25, 2022)

Belgium Blue & Japanese Amakusa double sided.





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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 25, 2022)

Just messaged them about trying to get one shipped to the USA, fingers crossed because I want one


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## inferno (Jun 26, 2022)

today i put my 65hrc or so srs15 santoku on the 220 shapton to roughen it up a bit. experiment time.

then put it on my big coti.

and the results are: almost nothing happens, as close to nothing as you could possibly get imo.
i gave it 5 minutes. lets just say this is the wrong stone for this steel. dont waste your time.

i guess r2 would be similar


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## cotedupy (Jun 26, 2022)

Nemo said:


> I certainly can't claim to be a pro.
> 
> I'll try with a bit more mud next time.
> 
> Thamks for your generous offer but I actually bought a smaller BB to use on veggie peelers that I reckon will do this job well. And it will keep it flat to boot.




Nice rainy day in SA, but here FWIW is what I'd consider a fairly standard few minute polish on atoma slurried BBW looks like, done by someone (me) who doesn't really know what they're doing. Hagane getting on for semi-mirror, and nice contrast because the jigane is quite dark. With pressure on the edge you can get the core steel brighter and more mirror than this.






Your browser is not able to display this video.











The knife btw is my no.1 new favourite thing for polishing, and might be of interest (?): Okeya Shirogami 2 Unagisaki, available from Protooling who have an eofy sale on atm, making it $61 Aud. I almost certainly will never use it for chopping up live eels, but at that price it's pretty difficult to ignore. I might even buy another!





















Okeya Traditional Japanese Knife | 150mm Kanto (White Steel)


Our traditional range of Japanese cooking knives are amazing value, the perfect entry into the world of single bevel Japanese knives. Crafted with high carbon steel (Shirogami 2) and raw timber Japanese style handles, they have a rustic finish with signs of hand forging. We use them ourselves...




protooling.com.au


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## inferno (Jun 26, 2022)

if you dont have any eels to chop up maybe you can find some snakes?


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## Nemo (Jun 26, 2022)

inferno said:


> if you dont have any eels to chop up maybe you can find some snakes?


A somewhat dangerous undertaking in Aus.


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## cotedupy (Jun 26, 2022)

Coupla Asahi tinnies and a bit of Red-Bellied Black Snakeshimi...


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## inferno (Jun 26, 2022)

the eastern brown snakes are supposedly cuddly.


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## bsfsu (Jun 26, 2022)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Just messaged them about trying to get one shipped to the USA, fingers crossed because I want one


I've just paid for one. Now to wait, shipping to New Zealand takes a while at the moment.


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## Luftmensch (Jun 27, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Coupla Asahi tinnies


 

I love Asahi tinnies... great value... and they still sell them in six packs (what the hell... why are so many beers sold as four). But they also make me feel old... a pig's, maybe two, down the hatch and I am ready for a kip.


....eh.... and since I am verging on stereotype.... A full slab of those and i'd be blinder than a dero with a dapto briefcase. Those tinnies are more like tallies. It doesnt take many before I am fuller than a pommy complaint box (that one is specifically for you @cotedupy). Even though its a top drop, one too many and i'll be out for a chunder in the dunny. Good thing I am never the desso though... cobber usually has to blow the bag on the way home. A good reason not to drink with the flies! Not on Sunday either... I can be a bit of a crook sook the day after. Getting up at sparrow's and choofing off to work is less appealing than chucking a sickie....


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 27, 2022)

bsfsu said:


> I've just paid for one. Now to wait, shipping to New Zealand takes a while at the moment.


I’m going to try and grab one myself here soon I believe, saw there are up on the website now


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## cotedupy (Jun 27, 2022)

bsfsu said:


> Belgium Blue & Japanese Amakusa double sided.





SolidSnake03 said:


> I’m going to try and grab one myself here soon I believe, saw there are up on the website now




Umm... am I missing something here? These look to be Amakusa x _La Lune_ combis, not Amakusa x BBW (?)

LaL is a type (or perhaps several types) of very fine French slate used for finishing razors.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 27, 2022)

Looks like you are right in that. He has said blue stone in the message to me when I asked but it looked like he was running things through some translation to get it so maybe something lost there?


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## cotedupy (Jun 27, 2022)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Looks like you are right in that. He has said blue stone in the message to me when I asked but it looked like he was running things through some translation to get it so maybe something lost there?




Ah yeah sounds like something lost in translation, possibly because there is also a black/very dark grey type of La Lune, as well as the purple/blue one. 

They're highly regarded stones for razors, and I'm going to be ordering one for myself when I'm back in Europe next month. Just very different from Belgian Blue, so I thought I'd flag before everyone jumped on!


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 27, 2022)

Yup that is a really good call out because they can look pretty similar from the pics I’m seeing in color so I could see how someone could make the mistake too. Yeah does seem like a translation thing or just a wording thing initially.


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## Benuser (Jun 27, 2022)

SolidSnake03 said:


> One of my favorite edges I’ve ever made is Shapton 1.5k right to Belgian Blue and then quick strop on kangaroo tail strop or cardboard.


Not sure I do understand the idea of using cardboard after BB. If I had to give a corresponding grit to cardboard it would be in the 2k range. What am I missing?


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## SolidSnake03 (Jun 27, 2022)

It probably doesn’t do anything in relation to cardboard but I do it out of habit and maybe it helps a tiny tiny bit clean up the edge a little more? I’ve always got some around so I do it anyhow. A loaded strop makes a more noticeable change but cardboard is maybe psychosomatic? Eh either way I do it


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## Benuser (Jun 27, 2022)

Nothing psychosomatic about the use of cardboard, IMHO. I use it to weaken and reduce burrs anywhere in the progression with carbons, except for the last stage, and the effect is evident from the steel traces it leaves.


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## M1k3 (Jun 27, 2022)




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## bsfsu (Jun 28, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Umm... am I missing something here? These look to be Amakusa x _La Lune_ combis, not Amakusa x BBW (?)
> 
> LaL is a type (or perhaps several types) of very fine French slate used for finishing razors.


Yeah your right, not BB. I've got one on the way to see how they go.


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## MarcelNL (Jun 28, 2022)

I now see what I'm doing wrong.....I need to involve our parrot in the sharpening process...


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## cotedupy (Jun 28, 2022)

bsfsu said:


> Yeah your right, not BB. I've got one on the way to see how they go.




And if you don’t like for knives &c. then I’m sure you could sell it to razor people in NZ. La Lune are highly regarded, and the story of their 'rediscovery' is very interesting. (Give shout if ever you do want to - I know someone there who'd probably be interested, and can put you in touch).


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## bsfsu (Jun 28, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> And if you don’t like for knives &c. then I’m sure you could sell it to razor people in NZ. La Lune are highly regarded, and the story of their 'rediscovery' is very interesting. (Give shout if ever you do want to - I know someone there who'd probably be interested, and can put you in touch).


I actually need some more high grit stones for various sharpening of items. I've been getting a few hairdresser scissors and machine blades in the store so I actually use all the random razor hones I have bought. It will be nice to have something a bit larger than what I currently have. I need a big Turkish now, might have to pay the freight on one of those Crete stones.


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## Leo Barr (Jun 28, 2022)

bsfsu said:


> Yeah your right, not BB. I've got one on the way to see how they go.


I have one that I tend to use to finish European carbon steel knives like Sabatiers its quite a muddy stone probably around 3-4K


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## Se1ryu (Jul 8, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> I posted a little while ago about coticules, but I think BBW deserves its own PSA thread. Because if anything... it’s even better.
> 
> Belgian Blue Whetstone might as well have been custom made for Japanese kitchen knives. It rolls around the mid 1000s, but works quicker than other comparable stones, cos garnets are well 'ard. It's soft enough to be easy to use, but not so soft as to make it tricky, or risk digging. Will work well with or without slurry, and even in fact - dry. Giving edges that are pitch perfect for knives; just a gorgeous combination of bite and finesse.
> 
> ...



Do you recommend it for single bevel knives like Yanagiba? For blending the core steel and the cladding. I saw @Jbro


cotedupy said:


> I posted a little while ago about coticules, but I think BBW deserves its own PSA thread. Because if anything... it’s even better.
> 
> Belgian Blue Whetstone might as well have been custom made for Japanese kitchen knives. It rolls around the mid 1000s, but works quicker than other comparable stones, cos garnets are well 'ard. It's soft enough to be easy to use, but not so soft as to make it tricky, or risk digging. Will work well with or without slurry, and even in fact - dry. Giving edges that are pitch perfect for knives; just a gorgeous combination of bite and finesse.
> 
> ...



Do you recommend BBW for single bevel knife polishing like Yanagiba? For blending the core steel and the cladding. I saw @JBroida single bevel Sharpening video using mud from monzento to blend nicely between hagane and jigane in Hamaguri edge.


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## cotedupy (Jul 8, 2022)

Se1ryu said:


> Do you recommend it for single bevel knives like Yanagiba? For blending the core steel and the cladding. I saw @Jbro
> 
> Do you recommend BBW for single bevel knife polishing like Yanagiba? For blending the core steel and the cladding. I saw @JBroida single bevel Sharpening video using mud from monzento to blend nicely between hagane and jigane in Hamaguri edge.




Yep it does work very nicely for single bevels. 

Though for the very final stage of sharpening, and uraoshi - I'd probably recommend using with clean water, as with mud the edge might be a little toothy.


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## Logan09 (Jul 9, 2022)

Got this today along with 2 coticule slurry stones. Tested it a little bit and am liking it so far. The slurry stones actually cut much faster than my natural coticule I have and were a nice surprise.


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## tostadas (Jul 22, 2022)

Ugh, stones are on their way... I hate you guys.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jul 22, 2022)

tostadas said:


> Ugh, stones are on their way... I hate you guys.



This one is dedicated to @tostadas' new stones.


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## Benuser (Jul 22, 2022)

tostadas said:


> Ugh, stones are on their way... I hate you guys.


Should I tell you how much I love my new _Blue_ Aoto by Maksim from Denmark?


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## tostadas (Jul 22, 2022)

Benuser said:


> Should I tell you how much I love my new _Blue_ Aoto by Maksim from Denmark?


quiet!


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## Olsen (Jul 22, 2022)

I have used my BBW with a thick slurry from a BBW slurry stone (diamond must work just as fine) and it could raise a noticable burr on my japanese B2 blade! But it also has the ability to do much finer with thinner slurry or plain water. I have not tried them for polishing so much but they should be quite capable as well


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## Olsen (Jul 22, 2022)

Benuser said:


> Should I tell you how much I love my new _Blue_ Aoto by Maksim from Denmark?


 
Glad to hear  Is it either this one Blue Aoto (a2776) or this Huge Blue Aoto (a2775) ? Maksim onlys sells the good stuff


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## Benuser (Jul 22, 2022)

Olsen said:


> Glad to hear  Is it either this one Blue Aoto (a2776) or this Huge Blue Aoto (a2775) ? Maksim onlys sells the good stuff


It's neither. Sorry for the confusion. It's the synthetic, the JNS Aoto Matukusuyama


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## Olsen (Jul 22, 2022)

Ahhh... Okay. It is also a great stone. I have it myself


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## tostadas (Aug 8, 2022)

It's really nice to sharpen on and I absolutely love the edge it produces. But I still hate you guys though.


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## Homechef (Aug 9, 2022)

tostadas said:


> It's really nice to sharpen on and I absolutely love the edge it produces. But I still hate you guys though.
> View attachment 192409


Where’s the other half? The coticule adds a level, long ways through the paper towel level!


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## blokey (Aug 9, 2022)

Look what you have done. Picked up 2 of them.


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## Nemo (Aug 9, 2022)

blokey said:


> Look what you have done. Picked up 2 of them.
> 
> View attachment 192440


"Look what you made me do"


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## tostadas (Aug 9, 2022)

Homechef said:


> Where’s the other half? The coticule adds a level, long ways through the paper towel level!


If they had one available in the same size around 8x3", I'd probably be several hundred bucks poorer right now


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## tostadas (Aug 14, 2022)

Update after almost a week. First impressions of this BBW are extremely positive. I got it specifically for sharpening. Using the little slurry stone gets some grit going in a jiff. The stone is quite hard like a Shapton Pro, and has good feedback. The color of the stone itself is pretty dark, so it's hard to tell how much steel is coming off by looking at the swarf itself. Still, I'd say it cuts quick. The edges coming off this thing have serious bite. I estimate somewhere around 3 or 4k. I'm really glad I spent the extra for the full size stone because I think this may be my new go-to finisher for my edges.


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## timebard (Sep 3, 2022)

After reading through this when I couldn't sleep the other night, I've got one on the way. Looking forward to trying it for both edges and polishing. 

Has anyone tried using BB mud or powder like uchi or other jnat powder (on a rag or high grit sandpaper, etc) for quick and easy kasumi finishes? How were the results?


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## timebard (Sep 9, 2022)




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## Stockman (Sep 13, 2022)

Need a little help from the BBW experts on this little Cotti/BBW recently picked up. Size is 150mm x 35 mm and I presume it was used as a razor hone as it was dished in the middle on one side. Whilst flattening the Coti side of the stone, it was moving into another layer of grey/yellow section. This section looks completely different to the reverse side, which is more of a purple/pink shade. Its like this stone has 3 distinct layers, which seems unusual? Any thoughts on what this middle layer could be?


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## deltaplex (Sep 14, 2022)

Looks like a combination/blended layer of BBW and coti to me


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## Logan09 (Sep 14, 2022)

Agree, just is a natural combination. Here's mine.


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## cotedupy (Oct 10, 2022)

Here's a very lovely stone that I got recently, which probably attracted less attention than it ought've because the coticule side is dished and mostly worn through:







A bit of a pity because this stone is a big 9x2 natural combi, and that kinda size is not very common at all. But also good because it means that it didn't go for a million pounds, and we're still left with this prime piece of Belgian rock:







It's generally accepted that BBW next to the coticule layer has a higher abrasive garnet content than that in the middle of the rock. You'll notice that the massive stone I used for all of the sharpening and polishing pics and vids in this thread is part of a natural combi occurring with a coticule from 'La Veinette', and when I received this stone there were also some telltale signs that this too is a LaV combi.

Another way we might be able to get an idea of how it will perform is by measuring the Specific Gravity. Coticule and BBW are among the heaviest of all natural whetstones -off the top of my head I can only think of Jadeites being heavier - because Spessartine Garnet (3.80 - 4.00) is considerably heavier than Silica (2.65). And this pulls the SG of the stones up to around 3.00 for yellow coticule and usually slightly below that for BBW.

Though there are obviously variations in both, and this piece of BBW weighs in at 3.08, which from memory is the second highest measurement I've taken from any BBW or Coti or Combi, after the aforementioned huge one which weighed in at a whopping 3.20. Ergo we might expect this new stone to likewise have a relatively high garnet content and consequently be a faster sharpening stone with brighter core steel polishes than normal. After just a minute or so run out we're already looking pretty good I think, and the edges are predictably superb too:







It's also exceptionally pretty in a way that BBW sometimes is, with a kinda holographic pattern and silvery sheen which makes it appear different colours at different angles:

















Now all this obviously made me very happy, but also a little sad. Because just a couple of days previously I had promised @Pie that I would look out for exactly this type of thing to swap for a razor hone he had little use for. Large pieces of naturally bonded BBW like this just don't come up very often; the stars had aligned, and I knew it had his name on it.

So this, Rolls Royce of Belgian Blue Whetstone, is now on its way to him, to make a new life in North America:


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## stringer (Oct 10, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Here's a very lovely stone that I got recently, which probably attracted less attention than it ought've because the coticule side is dished and mostly worn through:
> 
> View attachment 202473
> 
> ...


What a beautiful piece of stone. If you ever want to part with it @Pie lemme know


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## cotedupy (Oct 10, 2022)

stringer said:


> What a beautiful piece of stone. If you ever want to part with it @Pie lemme know




It's an absolute stunner that one . If it wasn't so precisely what @Pie had said he'd be keen for in the trade, then it'd most certainly be staying with me!


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## PeterL (Oct 10, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Here's a very lovely stone that I got recently, which probably attracted less attention than it ought've because the coticule side is dished and mostly worn through:
> 
> View attachment 202473
> 
> ...


Oh wow that’s a beauty! Seems like I’ll have to get in line but if any more of these come up I would go crazy for one. Love my coti and bbw from you, a bbw like this in a bigger size would be amazing. Where did you find this one? More eBay bidding?


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## Pie (Oct 10, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Here's a very lovely stone that I got recently, which probably attracted less attention than it ought've because the coticule side is dished and mostly worn through:
> 
> View attachment 202473
> 
> ...


I’m honoured to have the opportunity to be on the receiving end of this exchange. I can’t wait until it arrives, frantically prepping polishes and dulling edges to various degrees. 

Giddy to try a European stone, one handpicked by the master himself! Thank you once again


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## cotedupy (Oct 11, 2022)

PeterL said:


> Oh wow that’s a beauty! Seems like I’ll have to get in line but if any more of these come up I would go crazy for one. Love my coti and bbw from you, a bbw like this in a bigger size would be amazing. Where did you find this one? More eBay bidding?




Yep, was a nice ebay pickup where a couple slightly lucky factors combined so I think there may have only been one other bidder... It didn't have any measurements so I had to have an educated guess from the pics that it was quite big. And also - it was set firmly in a nice box someone had made and you couldn't tell how thick it was, or if the bottom was chipped or gouged like they often are. So I was pretty happy when it arrived and I popped it out. Looking forward to seeing what a polishing whizz like @Pie can do with it!

Can certainly keep an eye out for similar for you. That's the second largest Coti or BBW I've ever found, so definitely not an everyday occurrence, but you never know...

Also I just remembered I forgot to reply to your text a while back - apologies, been a bit hectic with helping the family move house. I'll give a shout next time I'm up in town though and we can meet up for some stone fun .


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## cotedupy (Oct 12, 2022)

Here's another (185 x 40) stone I got recently, which is very interesting for a few reasons (more on which in another thread), and goes to show that naturally bonded BBW is not the be-all and end-all...

The coticule side of this stone comes a vein called La Grosse Blanche, which simply because of its geology almost never comes as natural combis, they're pretty much always glued apparently.







I'd go so far as to say the BBW side of this stone is probably the best polishing BBW I've had. It may even be the best kasumi polishing stone I've ever used full stop. My crappy phone fails to do stuff like this justice, but there's contrast, shine, haze, and a core steel that'd go pretty much full mirror if I gave it more time and did a proper progression. If this were a jnat people would be wetting themselves. It's a truly exceptional piece of BBW this one.

I dunno what the orange spots are on it btw, or if they show anything I just thought they were interesting, so took a pic.


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## Cliff (Oct 12, 2022)

All right, this thread made me do it. While I haven't used it a ton yet, my new BBW put an unbelievable edge on my Kaeru SLD, pretty shocking, really.


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## captaincaed (Oct 12, 2022)

SLD is my least favorite steel to sharpen, so that's good news. Big chunky carbides


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## Cliff (Oct 12, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> SLD is my least favorite steel to sharpen, so that's good news. Big chunky carbides


I started with the JNS 800 and finished with the BBW. Didn't take long at all, deburred easily, and left a pretty refined edge -- I tend to like a more refined edge than most, I think -- with a ton of bite.


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## deltaplex (Oct 12, 2022)

Cliff said:


> I started with the JNS 800 and finished with the BBW. Didn't take long at all, deburred easily, and left a pretty refined edge -- I tend to like a more refined edge than most, I think -- with a ton of bite.


It puts a great edge on SG2/R2 as well, fwiw.


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## Cliff (Oct 12, 2022)

I sharpened an R2 suji at the same time but haven't used it yet. Looking forward.


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## M1k3 (Oct 12, 2022)

BBW and Coti work pretty good on Z-wear also.


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## BillHanna (Nov 3, 2022)

So I search la lune, because I enjoy being separated from my money, and I find this. I no longer feel fluent in English.


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## BillHanna (Nov 3, 2022)

BillHanna said:


> So I search la lune, because I enjoy being separated from my money, and I find this. I no longer feel fluent in English.


I quoted a post that has somehow disappeared. Ah well.


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## BillHanna (Nov 3, 2022)

Luftmensch said:


> I love Asahi tinnies... great value... and they still sell them in six packs (what the hell... why are so many beers sold as four). But they also make me feel old... a pig's, maybe two, down the hatch and I am ready for a kip.
> 
> 
> ....eh.... and since I am verging on stereotype.... A full slab of those and i'd be blinder than a dero with a dapto briefcase. Those tinnies are more like tallies. It doesnt take many before I am fuller than a pommy complaint box (that one is specifically for you @cotedupy). Even though its a top drop, one too many and i'll be out for a chunder in the dunny. Good thing I am never the desso though... cobber usually has to blow the bag on the way home. A good reason not to drink with the flies! Not on Sunday either... I can be a bit of a crook sook the day after. Getting up at sparrow's and choofing off to work is less appealing than chucking a sickie....


Here it is! I had to make sure it wasn’t a fever dream, or me slipping away from reality on some sort of foraged scandi shrooms.


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## Luftmensch (Nov 4, 2022)

BillHanna said:


> I no longer feel fluent in English.



Hehe... Ozzie slang?



BillHanna said:


> Here it is! I had to make sure it wasn’t a fever dream, or me slipping away from reality on some sort of foraged scandi shrooms.



Clearly I thought it was a good idea to ham it up in that post... I must say... did enjoy rereading it! Thanks for the reminder 


I also think that became KKF post-zero for "chucking a sickle" (e.g. [1] and [2]).... noting that the 'i' at the end of sickie can look like an 'L'....

Ozzies sure love chucking a sickie . That said... I am sure there are few farmer or communist Ozzies who have chucked a sickle!


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## Nemo (Nov 4, 2022)

Luftmensch said:


> Hehe... Ozzie slang?
> 
> Ozzies sure love chucking a sickie . That said... I am sure there are few farmer or communist Ozzies who have chucked a sickle!


Never mind the sickles.

Down here in the Bush, you really aughtta see the emergency rooms when the farmers start chuckin' combine harvesters around.


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## Luftmensch (Nov 4, 2022)

Nemo said:


> Never mind the sickles.
> 
> Down here in the Bush, you really aughtta see the emergency rooms when the farmers start chuckin' combine harvesters around.



Did you ever watch Outback E.R.? I liked it. Those [email protected] were tough as nails. Patients would drive two or three hours to get treatment at the hospital. They were pretty stoic about their injuries as well.


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## M1k3 (Nov 4, 2022)

Nemo said:


> Never mind the sickles.
> 
> Down here in the Bush, you really aughtta see the emergency rooms when the farmers start chuckin' combine harvesters around.


Oh nice! I learned a new Aussie phrase!


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## Nemo (Nov 4, 2022)

Nemo said:


> Never mind the sickles.
> 
> Down here in the Bush, you really aughtta see the emergency rooms when the farmers start chuckin' combine harvesters around.


Just for disambiguation, this was of course a joke.

As far as I know, no combine harvesters were actually thrown.


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## Nemo (Nov 4, 2022)

Luftmensch said:


> Did you ever watch Outback E.R.? I liked it. Those [email protected] were tough as nails. Patients would drive two or three hours to get treatment at the hospital. They were pretty stoic about their injuries as well.


I saw a few episodes. The long distances involved can definitely make it difficult to get timely care.


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## M1k3 (Nov 4, 2022)

Nemo said:


> As far as I know, no combine harvesters were actually thrown.


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## Whit3Nitro (Nov 9, 2022)

Early Christmas present from my wife today. I’d mentioned this stone, all thanks to this thread, to a friend who inturn told my wife. Great feedback and even better edge.  @cotedupy you should be getting commission for all this publicity!


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## Legion74 (Nov 16, 2022)

I found this absolutely munted stub of a coticule yesterday, but it was cheap enough to pick up and lap for the BBW side.


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## cotedupy (Nov 17, 2022)

Legion74 said:


> I found this absolutely munted stub of a coticule yesterday, but it was cheap enough to pick up and lap for the BBW side.
> 
> View attachment 208774
> View attachment 208775




Lovely, lovely, lovely!

Just about the only way to find a decent sized piece of BBW from next to the coti layer. I sent a really gorgeous piece to @Pie recently that was a similar affair.


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## Pie (Nov 17, 2022)

Legion74 said:


> I found this absolutely munted stub of a coticule yesterday, but it was cheap enough to pick up and lap for the BBW side.
> 
> View attachment 208774
> View attachment 208775


Oh that looks like a fun one. I can confirm the purple stuff is most excellent.


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## Kawa (Nov 23, 2022)

Thinking about asking a BBW for christmas. I only have synthetics now, and I want to try the 'toothy yet refined' experience a natural stone has for myself.
I like to finish my knives at a high gritt(5-8k), but I have to admit most steels don't hold it for long, leaving me with a slick, non cutting edge after a while.

Does it matter where I get my BBW from? I'm not talking shabby places, but I can order directly from ardennes-coticule or from some other respected sharpening gear sites.
I'm talking quality wise, not pricewise per se. Or are all the BBW's more or less the same?


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## Pie (Nov 23, 2022)

Kawa said:


> Thinking about asking a BBW for christmas. I only have synthetics now, and I want to try the 'toothy yet refined' experience a natural stone has for myself.
> I like to finish my knives at a high gritt(5-8k), but I have to admit most steels don't hold it for long, leaving me with a slick, non cutting edge after a while.
> 
> Does it matter where I get my BBW from? I'm not talking shabby places, but I can order directly from ardennes-coticule or from some other respected sharpening gear sites.
> I'm talking quality wise, not pricewise per se. Or are all the BBW's more or less the same?


Sir. It’s a crime, although not necessarily your fault, that you haven’t tried natural stones considering what magic you can extract from synthetics. 

I second this for the glorious edges, as well as almost synthetic speed that BBW bring to the table. 

If it were me, I’d ask if @cotedupy is willing to chase down another goose . Pretesting of natural stones is just about the only way to know exactly what you’re getting in terms of fineness and cleanliness. Perhaps this doesn’t apply as much outside jnats but there’s some… variation sometimes. That being said retailers for this sort of thing do have to maintain a reputation, I can’t imagine they’d sell a bad stone. From the actual origin, no less.


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## Kawa (Nov 24, 2022)

Thx for your answer.
I am aware its a natural product, giving it variations among stones. Not as much as coticules do I believe (if I informed myself correctly), but still.
Thats the scary part of this natural rabbit hole I guess. That's why, if I buy, it will be from a respected place.

I notice the thrustworthy retailers all have about the same price.

When reading the JNAT topics, I sometimes notice people buy a 'fake' stone of ebay or something. Just a weak stone with a stamp on it or whatever the shimmy seller did to get way too much money.

Thats about what I mean with quality. 
Let me rephrase:
What would be reasons to buy directly from ardennes-coticules, instead of dictum or knivesandtools? Can I expect the same quality stone, keeping natural variationsin mind?
Or is it, for example, known that Ardennes-coticules keep the finest stones and sell the coarser ones the other retailers?


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## cotedupy (Nov 24, 2022)

Kawa said:


> What would be reasons to buy directly from ardennes-coticules, instead of dictum or knivesandtools? Can I expect the same quality stone, keeping natural variationsin mind?
> Or is it, for example, known that Ardennes-coticules keep the finest stones and sell the coarser ones the other retailers?




Yes, I think you probably could expect the same quality regardless of vendor. I'm not speaking from first hand experience but that would be an educated guess because...

IME Belgian Blue doesn't have anything like the level of variation that yellow coticule does. Obviously there is some, but really it's all pretty good, and certainly quite similar in terms of sharpening.

The minutiae of polishing can show up small differences between stones, and naturally bonded BBW, or stone that's from next to the coticule layer, tends to be a little bit faster usually. But really - from the dozens and dozens of BBW stones I've used there haven't been any that I didn't think were good, and the variation is small compared to most other types of stone.


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## Kawa (Nov 24, 2022)

I guess i'll send the wife on a quest


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## enchappo (Nov 24, 2022)

A question for the brains trust - looking at you @cotedupy - is this BBW on the back of this glued coti, or is it just “unusable black slate” as the Ardennes-Coticule people put it?


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## captaincaed (Nov 24, 2022)

Looks an awful lot like bbw. Might be clearer with a wet pic. Looks nice!


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## cotedupy (Nov 24, 2022)

enchappo said:


> A question for the brains trust - looking at you @cotedupy - is this BBW on the back of this glued coti, or is it just “unusable black slate” as the Ardennes-Coticule people put it?
> 
> View attachment 210424
> 
> View attachment 210425




Yep - it's BBW. 100%.


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## enchappo (Nov 24, 2022)

That’s the answer I was hoping to hear!! Thanks both. 

Adding a wet pic and one with some Atoma slurry just for fun…






And then one of the coti side (along with another coti I picked up with it) just because we all like pictures of rocks:


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## Skylar303 (Nov 24, 2022)

The slate they use is a jet black, also.


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## enchappo (Nov 24, 2022)

Skylar303 said:


> The slate they use is a jet black, also.


Ah, good to know. Thanks!


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## cotedupy (Nov 25, 2022)

enchappo said:


> That’s the answer I was hoping to hear!! Thanks both.
> 
> Adding a wet pic and one with some Atoma slurry just for fun…
> 
> ...




Sweet stones!

As Skylar said - the colour is a dead giveaway, afaik no one has ever glued a coti onto a purple slate. That’d be confusing af!

The other thing in your first pics that showed it was clearly Belgian Blue are those little pinprick dot patterns it has. The large majority of BBW has that in some form.


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## enchappo (Nov 26, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Sweet stones!
> 
> As Skylar said - the colour is a dead giveaway, afaik no one has ever glued a coti onto a purple slate. That’d be confusing af!
> 
> The other thing in your first pics that showed it was clearly Belgian Blue are those little pinprick dot patterns it has. The large majority of BBW has that in some form.






You mean this stuff? That’s a great tip. 

Tbh I assumed it was BBW when I got it, but that was only because I thought coti and BBW always came paired (naturally or otherwise)… so then when I realised that sometimes coticule was just bonded to slate I thought I better check!


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## cotedupy (Nov 26, 2022)

enchappo said:


> View attachment 210658
> 
> You mean this stuff? That’s a great tip.
> 
> Tbh I assumed it was BBW when I got it, but that was only because I thought coti and BBW always came paired (naturally or otherwise)… so then when I realised that sometimes coticule was just bonded to slate I thought I better check!




Yep exactly. Look like very small, dark pinprick dots, and you get them on most BBW but not on purple slates. They're actually red if you look up close / under a scope so could be garnet for all I know, but I guess not because with visible bits of abrasive like that the stone would be very coarse.

And you're right - it was overwhelmingly likely to be BBW, I've had dozens of old cotis and not one has been slate-backed. It's a relatively recent thing done by AC once people started realising how good BBW was, so they could sell that separately and just use cheap imported slate to back yellow coticules.

In the past BBW was regarded as fairly useless, few older cotis show any sign of wear or dishing on the BBW side, and many have chips or bits out of them like yours does in the middle there. It was just used as backing because that's what they had to hand at the quarries.


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## enchappo (Nov 26, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> Yep exactly. Look like very small, dark pinprick dots, and you get them on most BBW but not on purple slates. They're actually red if you look up close / under a scope so could be garnet for all I know, but I guess not because with visible bits of abrasive like that the stone would be very coarse.
> 
> And you're right - it was overwhelmingly likely to be BBW, I've had dozens of old cotis and not one has been slate-backed. It's a relatively recent thing done by AC once people started realising how good BBW was, so they could sell that separately and just use cheap imported slate to back yellow coticules.
> 
> In the past BBW was regarded as fairly useless, few older cotis show any sign of wear or dishing on the BBW side, and many have chips or bits out of them like yours does in the middle there. It was just used as backing because that's what they had to hand at the quarries.


As usual, both impressed with and appreciative of your knowledge on stones like these! Love it.


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## Kawa (Dec 11, 2022)

Today I opened my frontdoor at 6 a.m to go to work and there was a package laying on the floor in front of the door, on the outside. Huh?
It was from Ardennes Coticules. My BBW!!
^[email protected]#$&
It is literally freezing in Holland right now. The stone layed outside the whole night (I guess). Who did this? The mailman (it's not common in Holland to put mail/ a package in front of a house)? A neighbour with good intentions who answered the mailman?
I was afraid the stone had cracks due to the cold, but I had no time to check at that time. It also could have been stolen..

Finally at home, I opened the package... Everything fine . No cracks, no moisture 

So there was a beautiful 200x60 bbw, 5x5 slurry stone (bbw), a nice wooden case and even a sharpening angler. Soon I know what 15 degrees feels like 

I told myself I was not allowed to take pictures or do anything other then put it back in the box it came with, since it's a Christmass present for me from my wife.

So at the 25th I will show it, maybe even after the initial lapping.

I allready have my Shiro Kamo aogami2 petty dull ready and waiting for it, can't wait to try it out!


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## refcast (Dec 12, 2022)

Feels like a perfect hardness aoto. Specifically the one @Pie has. Edges need a little more deburring work than jnats though. Scratches the steel deeper than jnats though, but the iron is more even and darker than most jnats. Can still show banding but the darker iron obscures more. The edges are interesting. . . More aggressive teeth like pointier. It's easy to feel it on paper. The mud doesn't seem to break down or get viscous the same way like a jnat though. And I think the scratches are definitely not shallow, because I can feel texture on the iron and steel more then with a jnat, at the same scratch width.

I'd rather have @Pie 's aoto though haha


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## HumbleHomeCook (Dec 12, 2022)

Great input @refcast. Having next to no J-Nat experience hearing you compare this to an aoto is very cool.


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## Cliff (Dec 12, 2022)

Mine feels very similar to a hard, Tamba Aoto


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## refcast (Dec 13, 2022)

Kanna with wrought


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## Nemo (Jan 1, 2023)

I touched up a Mundial on my BB yesterday.

I was pretty careful with deburring (including using the Martell double sharpening technique).

I can't recall ever getting Western Stainless this sharp. Effortless slicing through paper towel on the diagonal is not something I typically associate with Western stainless. It does make me think that my limitation on this steel to date has been incomplete removal of a tenacious burr.

Nice stone.


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## Nemo (Jan 1, 2023)

I've also been using a pocket sized BB on veggie peelers. Ours go in the dishwasher so they don't stay sharp that long.

I use a pocket sized SiC stone (the cheap ones that are sold in hardware stores for pocket knives) to create an edge and then to refine the burr with lower pressure. Then I complete the deburring with the BB. Very nice to have sharp veggie peelers again.


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## cotedupy (Jan 2, 2023)

Nemo said:


> I touched up a Mundial on my BB yesterday.
> 
> I was pretty careful with deburring (including using the Martell double sharpening technique).
> 
> ...




That's interesting.

I don't sharpen much stainless tbh, but when I do I tended to finish quite low. Both because the steel is often quite wear-resistant, and also just received wisdom seems to say that it doesn't take higher grit finishes very well. And I often struggle with quite clingy burrs, or when they are 'deburred' the edges sometimes seem a bit ragged, like they haven't deburred as cleanly as other steels do.

Then the other day I was testing out a Llyn Idwal, a very fine stone probably more suited to razors, and in knife terms relatively slow. I grabbed one of my family's cheapy Vitorinox knives for it, and was rather surprised at the end when the edge still had bite and teeth, but was now zinging through kitchen roll in a way it never had before.

Perhaps I need to re-think my approach to inexpensive stainless...


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## Nemo (Jan 2, 2023)

cotedupy said:


> That's interesting.
> 
> I don't sharpen much stainless tbh, but when I do I tended to finish quite low. Both because the steel is often quite wear-resistant, and also just received wisdom seems to say that it doesn't take higher grit finishes very well. And I often struggle with quite clingy burrs, or when they are 'deburred' the edges sometimes seem a bit ragged, like they haven't deburred as cleanly as other steels do.
> 
> ...


I used the BB on the basis that the rolling garnets are supposed to abrade the burr, so in my mind's eye, I was using it as a burr muncher rather than a fine stone.

I did worry about abrading the matrix around the hard vanadium carbides, although the amount of V in these steels is pretty low IIRC. Garnets should be harder than all of the other carbides in the steel, although the matrix is softer than the types of steels I usually sharpen, so maybe there is some scope for preferentially abrading the matrix. OTOH, the garnets in BB are pretty large, so maybe they function a bit more like a coarse stone when it comes to the ability to preferentiallyabrade the matrix?

To be clear, this is all supposition on my part. But the BB did put the best edge on the knife that it has ever had.


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## hendrix (Jan 2, 2023)

Could you speak a little more to the process you use to sharpen a peeler. I have an Oxo peeler with two edges facing each other and would love to be able to sharpen it occasionally but it’s configuration has me stumped as to sharpening.





Your browser is not able to display this video.






Nemo said:


> I've also been using a pocket sized BB on veggie peelers. Ours go in the dishwasher so they don't stay sharp that long.
> 
> I use a pocket sized SiC stone (the cheap ones that are sold in hardware stores for pocket knives) to create an edge and then to refine the burr with lower pressure. Then I complete the deburring with the BB. Very nice to have sharp veggie peelers again.


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## Nemo (Jan 2, 2023)

hendrix said:


> Could you speak a little more to the process you use to sharpen a peeler. I have an Oxo peeler with two edges facing each other and would love to be able to sharpen it occasionally but it’s configuration has me stumped as to sharpening.
> 
> View attachment 217374


Wow, your peeler looks blunt!

I just drag the peeler's edge along the stone, kinda like I'm peeling the stone. I use the stone wet. Start with firm pressure until you can feel a burr, then gradually lighten the pressure to abrade the burr. You could at this stage deburr with a toothpick or similar, I guess.

Then I switched to the BB. I used medium pressure to work up a bit of a slurry (I guess you could use a diamond plate for this), then light pressure until it felt pretty sharp, I guess for a couple of minutes. It makes lots of scrreeeechy sounds


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## hendrix (Jan 2, 2023)

Nemo said:


> Wow, your peeler looks blunt!
> 
> I just drag the peeler's edge along the stone, kinda like I'm peeling the stone. I use the stone wet. Start with firm pressure until you can feel a burr, then gradually lighten the pressure to abrade the burr. You could at this stage deburr with a toothpick or similar, I guess.
> 
> Then I switched to the BB. I used medium pressure to work up a bit of a slurry (I guess you could use a diamond plate for this), then light pressure until it felt pretty sharp, I guess for a couple of minutes. It makes lots of scrreeeechy sounds


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## enchappo (Jan 3, 2023)

Nemo said:


> It makes lots of scrreeeechy sounds


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## cotedupy (Jan 3, 2023)

Nemo said:


> I used the BB on the basis that the rolling garnets are supposed to abrade the burr, so in my mind's eye, I was using it as a burr muncher rather than a fine stone.




Yeah normally an Idwal wouldn't release any particles at all really, but I had slurried it with an atoma in that instance, so perhaps something similar might've been happening.

Unfortunately I'm nothing like enough of a metallurgist to have much of idea as to exactly what's going on. But I'll definitely be experimenting more with using fine grit stones as a final burr reduction or minimisation stage when sharpening inexpensive stainless in the future.

Another stone that might work well for it are Tams. You should keep an eye out for them - a huge number were exported to Sydney in the last 150 years, so you can find 'em on the cheap surprisingly often in Aus.

(I was also going to ask for vegetable peeler tips, but I see you've got there already. Ta - I'll have to give a go sometime.)


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## Case_D (Jan 3, 2023)

Here's a petty in damascus clad VG10. Polished on a Belgian Blue following Cerax 3k. Pretty nice, but can see light scratches in the right lighting. Lighting at my parents house is altogether bad, so sorry the pictures aren't as good as they could be. 







Here you can see some scratches going diagonally. The scratch pattern from the Cerax 3k was perpendicular to the edge. I've done them both diagonally before, and it's a lot more difficult to get rid of those 3k scratches. Do it with the 3k perpendicular and the BBW diagonally was much easier.


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