# Dragons Tongue, Purple Llyn Melynllyn, Green Slate



## Badgertooth (Aug 18, 2016)

Wrap your chops around those names. A gift from a forum member of some vintage Franconian slate got me a little curious then outright obsessed with slate as a sharpening medium.

I took a crapshoot on a British seller and gave them a cursory run through today. The dragons tongue is estimated at 8k, the purple Llyn Melynllyn at 12k and grey Llyn Melynllyn at 15k. 

They feel nice to sharpen on, almost too nice when slurried with the accompanying slurry stones or when hit with a DMT XC. I kept waiting for that jarring moment you sometimes get on an ozuku when a rogue particle comes and takes a dump on your whole progression. The 8K certainly has application as a kitchen knife finisher and it finishes about as refined as I want an edge. I still have lots of experimentation to do to see where different slurry weights and dilutions take things but it should be fun.

The 12k is notable for its Aubergine lustre when wet and trippy pink slurry. The best way to describe it is the contrast between a hippo's nostrils and the rest of the hippo. Cuts decently when slurried, polishes and hones when just wet. It starts veering into parlour trick territory with very little real world application though it could be interesting to finish a yanagiba on it. 

The 15k is pointless. It's dreamy and creamy when slurried and feels amazing and leaves an HHT2, maybe closer to HHT3 edge. Which is handy when you want to make a shredded newsprint and kitchen towel coleslaw.

Hippo slate





The trio


----------



## DanHumphrey (Aug 18, 2016)

I have nothing to add except that I was reading GoT last night and now my head is in the exact same place. Thems are some _names_!


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 18, 2016)

The double Ll in Welsh is pronounced by forcing air between a gap in your molars and the side edge of your tongue before saying the L.


----------



## foody518 (Aug 18, 2016)

I think I've got a similar set...the purple 12k makes me smile. Overkill, but a really fun colored slurry. I should be smart like you and sharpie the tops of the slurry stone for ID


----------



## Kippington (Aug 18, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> The double Ll in Welsh is pronounced by forcing air between a gap in your molars and the side edge of your tongue before saying the L.



Hah, my brother's name is Llewellyn. It's cool to know we've been pronouncing it wrong the whole time!


----------



## Timthebeaver (Aug 18, 2016)

Llyn = Lake
Melyn = Yellow

The tarn in question is in the Carneddau mountains, in the North. Very nice spot.


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Aug 18, 2016)

That cracked me up..Funny Dan



Kippington said:


> Hah, my brother's name is Llewellyn. It's cool to know we've been pronouncing it wrong the whole time!


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Aug 18, 2016)

"Which is handy when you want to make a shredded newsprint and kitchen towel coleslaw."

Or maybe for a nakiri/usuba/light chinese cleaver?


----------



## Sharpchef (Aug 18, 2016)

I don`T like slates for knives, because they are quite slow and mostly too fine......

@Badgertooth: The frankonian is another type of slate, it is quarzite slate, that makes them so fast.

You can find real good slate honing stones at 
http://www.thuringianhones.de/epages/80014041.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/80014041/Categories/Category1

But i don`T recommend the thuringian stones for knives!, just for razors they are lovely.

The other stones are very good for knives, like the La Lorraine, the better Belgian Blue stone, or the Levant that leaves a super sharp and toothy edge!. The Artaunon is stupid hard (most likely harder then an Trans Ark) but gives a very refined edge on knives with DMT/Atoma Slurry.

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## chinacats (Aug 18, 2016)

I've tried these with razors and imo they are a bit too grabby which I find rather annoying...edges are fine but again just felt like crap compared to Belgiums or J-nats...which I'm guessing is why they are so inexpensive.


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 18, 2016)

Kippington said:


> Hah, my brother's name is Llewellyn. It's cool to know we've been pronouncing it wrong the whole time!



Haha or the millions of Lloyds who aren't Hhhhhhsssshhhhlllloyds


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Aug 18, 2016)

The edge or the stones felt like crap? So you would recommend to get a similarly priced piece of purple Belgium instead of these?

....

A German shopping site translated "with slurry stone" to "mit Gülle-Stein" .... that could explain why they felt like crap... (Gülle is the kind of slurry you definitely do not want on any whetstone!)


----------



## chinacats (Aug 18, 2016)

No, I was saying the stones felt like crap...the edges were actually nice but again they seemed to grab the blade...I can only think of the term grabby which I don't believe actually means anything...but should say that I think a blade should feel no (well little) resistance even on a much more coarse stone. In use they reminded me more of the cheap but somewhat useful Chinese finishers. I had naguras (from same stones) to match these stones as well. Again, not knocking them for others but I believe that is why they don't command a higher price or hold more market share among either knife or razor users.


----------



## Steampunk (Aug 18, 2016)

Thank you for the review on these! I've been looking at them for some time, as they are affordable to the average man in a world where many natural stones are not... Have you tested the blade road finish they give on wide or single bevel knives? 

- Steampunk


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 18, 2016)

Yeah it does a serviceable job on a wide bevel petty I always use. I'd be hesitant to put my Doi on it.

This is my arm this morning where i shave tested. Ouch.









Regarding the tactile feedback, I actually think they feel pretty darn smooth and compared to an Ozuku and and ungrabby compared to a Tsushima.


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Aug 19, 2016)

Errr... even a cheap synthetic 8000, sloppily used, will usually not make an edge that irritating?

...

The kind of "little resistance" you want ... not the kind of "nothing seems to happen" feel like you get from cheap carborundum I guess?


----------



## psfred (Aug 21, 2016)

Being silly, I too bought a set of these, mostly for woodworking tools rather than knives, though. I am making end grain cutting boards, and need a very fine and long lasting edge on block planes to finish them since I don't have a drum sander like rich people have.

Besides, they are cheap enough and it's always fun to try new stones....

8k equivalent is more than enough for most kitchen knives, but the plane irons may benefit from a finer edge. Might not, who knows.

Peter


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 22, 2016)

psfred said:


> Being silly, I too bought a set of these, mostly for woodworking tools rather than knives, though. I am making end grain cutting boards, and need a very fine and long lasting edge on block planes to finish them since I don't have a drum sander like rich people have.
> 
> Besides, they are cheap enough and it's always fun to try new stones....
> 
> ...



The fella who sells these is a tradesman and uses these to sharpen his tools in a professional context so it may well be that you end with the purpose most suited for these stones. Let us know how you get on.


----------



## Badgertooth (Aug 22, 2016)

Sharpchef said:


> The other stones are very good for knives, like the La Lorraine, the better Belgian Blue stone, or the Levant that leaves a super sharp and toothy edge!. The Artaunon is stupid hard (most likely harder then an Trans Ark) but gives a very refined edge on knives with DMT/Atoma Slurry.
> 
> Greets Sebastian.



You and Krassi will bankrupt me. I got a notification that the Levant is back in stock and have just pulled the trigger. Any advice on how to use these?


----------



## khashy (Jan 2, 2017)

@Badgertooth, I managed to find these for sale for about 85USD for all three inc shipping. Would you say it's worth going for these or save the $$ and get another jnat?


----------



## Badgertooth (Jan 2, 2017)

khashy said:


> @Badgertooth, I managed to find these for sale for about 85USD for all three inc shipping. Would you say it's worth going for these or save the $$ and get another jnat?



They're fun but finish super duper fine. I'd be tempted to put that towards a jnat


----------



## tgfencer (Jan 2, 2017)

And on the third day, God turned all our money into stone.....


----------



## khashy (Jan 3, 2017)

Badgertooth said:


> They're fun but finish super duper fine. I'd be tempted to put that towards a jnat



Right, okay I'll hold off then. He has the set in smaller size, 52mm width, for half that price. 

Is 52mm way too narrow?


----------



## foody518 (Jan 3, 2017)

khashy said:


> Right, okay I'll hold off then. He has the set in smaller size, 52mm width, for half that price.
> 
> Is 52mm way too narrow?



Don't do that to yourself


----------



## khashy (Jan 3, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Don't do that to yourself



Haha, understood. Thank you


----------



## psfred (Jan 4, 2017)

These stones work fine for straight razors (I have a set honed up but have not tried them yet for a variety of reasons, including a broken ankle  last week ).

They are quite fine, but work very well for woodworking tools and razors. 12k equivalent grit and up, much to high for normal kitchen knives.

Peter


----------



## khashy (Jan 5, 2017)

psfred said:


> These stones work fine for straight razors (I have a set honed up but have not tried them yet for a variety of reasons, including a broken ankle  last week ).
> 
> They are quite fine, but work very well for woodworking tools and razors. 12k equivalent grit and up, much to high for normal kitchen knives.
> 
> Peter



I hope the ankle gets better soon.

I'm really tempted by these given the positive feedback, I drew the outline of the smaller stones on paper and they are much too small for knives. 

From what you are saying, only the 8k equivalent is suitable for knives then. I think they guy sells them individually too.


----------



## mikaelsan (Jan 6, 2017)

I recently got the dragons tounge from a guy on etsy, and I was very sceptic beforehand but I was only about 22 euro with shipping. I decided to get it after watching a post on one of the razor forms where a couple of guys tested it simultaneously, this was the lm though, and they were all pleasantly surprised, I'm really happy with it, the feel and results it leaves, but bear in mind i haven't tried that many stones as this is still a fairly new hobby to me, about one year, so you could imagine how blown away I was cutting news paper afterwards


----------



## khashy (Jan 6, 2017)

mikaelsan said:


> I recently got the dragons tounge from a guy on etsy, and I was very sceptic beforehand but I was only about 22 euro with shipping. I decided to get it after watching a post on one of the razor forms where a couple of guys tested it simultaneously, this was the lm though, and they were all pleasantly surprised, I'm really happy with it, the feel and results it leaves, but bear in mind i haven't tried that many stones as this is still a fairly new hobby to me, about one year, so you could imagine how blown away I was cutting news paper afterwards



That's actually cheaper than what I found on ebay. Link?


----------



## mikaelsan (Jan 6, 2017)

I'll try to remember to post it when I get home, see if I remembered the price correctly


----------



## mikaelsan (Jan 6, 2017)

Okay I'm apparently bad art quick math, it was about 26.5 euro for me  https://www.etsy.com/dk-en/listing/...ning-stone-chisel-plane?ref=related_listings# he also have the two other lm's. and hey if you can't use them as sharpening stones I hear they are great as roof tiles


----------



## khashy (Jan 6, 2017)

mikaelsan said:


> Okay I'm apparently bad art quick math, it was about 26.5 euro for me  https://www.etsy.com/dk-en/listing/...ning-stone-chisel-plane?ref=related_listings# he also have the two other lm's. and hey if you can't use them as sharpening stones I hear they are great as roof tiles



Thank you for this. It's the same dude. I can ask him for a deal for two stones. 

Would you guys say the 8k-10k + the 12k would be better or 8k-10k + 15k as a set?


----------



## mikaelsan (Jan 6, 2017)

No problem, I'll see if I can dig out the thread later  maybe someone with experience with the two lm's can come in on that one, I know the stone they mainly tested in the thread was the 12k and that was on straight razors, I use my dt on my knives, white steel blue steel and cheap ss seems to work good all around


----------



## foody518 (Jan 6, 2017)

I can try to use again soon but by previous recollection I was kind of ehh about the supposed 15k stone compared to the other 2


----------



## khashy (Jan 6, 2017)

Thanks both. It'd be great to get a freshly exercised opinion in addition to Badgertooth's excellent review.

I kind of think with my not-so-advanced sharpening skills, I wouldn't be able to get much use from the '15k' stone


----------



## Smashmasta (Jan 6, 2017)

khashy said:


> Thanks both. It'd be great to get a freshly exercised opinion in addition to Badgertooth's excellent review.
> 
> I kind of think with my not-so-advanced sharpening skills, I wouldn't be able to get much use from the '15k' stone



Even with advanced skills, you won't get too much out of anything that fine vs something even as 'low' as 10k or 12k. You'd need a knife with a HRC in the mid 60s so that it can be hard enough to take on such a fine edge. Really most stones 10k+ are entering razor fineness zones and you won't see too much 'improvement' vs even 8k in terms of practical use, and not many users take their knives to 8k except to finish and polish. That being said, such high grit stones can be fun to use to see how far you can take a knife. And as always, the higher you go, the less kirenaga (edge retention life).


----------



## khashy (Jan 6, 2017)

Smashmasta said:


> Even with advanced skills, you won't get too much out of anything that fine vs something even as 'low' as 10k or 12k. You'd need a knife with a HRC in the mid 60s so that it can be hard enough to take on such a fine edge. Really most stones 10k+ are entering razor fineness zones and you won't see too much 'improvement' vs even 8k in terms of practical use, and not many users take their knives to 8k except to finish and polish. That being said, such high grit stones can be fun to use to see how far you can take a knife. And as always, the higher you go, the less kirenaga (edge retention life).



Agreed. For me it's really more of a learning exercise without breaking the bank. Kind of feel I'm sinking lower and lower in the natural stones rabbit hole...


----------



## foody518 (Jan 6, 2017)

khashy said:


> Thanks both. It'd be great to get a freshly exercised opinion in addition to Badgertooth's excellent review.
> 
> I kind of think with my not-so-advanced sharpening skills, I wouldn't be able to get much use from the '15k' stone



Don't be shy to prodigiously use the slurry stones!


----------



## khashy (Jan 6, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Don't be shy to prodigiously use the slurry stones!



Definitely, the purple stuff actually looks pretty cool!!


----------



## psfred (Jan 7, 2017)

In my limited experience with these stones, slurry cuts faster and coarser than water, and for razors you want them water only to finish. 

That said, I won't be using these stones for knives, I don't have a need for highly polished razor edges on cooking knives particularly, other than for fun. 6k is the end for me on anything I use, works well and lasts with an occasional dry strop on the 6k stone.

The slates are great for razors, but as all natural stones, fairly slow (about 50 to 100 x strokes per stone minimum). Serious over-kill for cooking knives. 

Will be using them with some plane blades soon, or at least as soon as I can walk again with my broken ankle as I have orders for three or four cutting boards and will need to use block planes to flatten them (no drum sander, alas).

Peter


----------

