# Sharpening.... where to start?



## jamaster14 (Feb 17, 2014)

So, i'd like to learn to sharpen... why invest in good knives and not be able to care for them properly right? 

Where do I start? What stones should I get? where should i go for begginer techinques(there are a bajillion videos, so its counterproductive with the overkill of info without know where to look). Is practicing on old cheap stainless knives a good starting point or will that not translate to semi steel or carbon steel knives?

thanks!


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## CoqaVin (Feb 17, 2014)

Jon's videos are very informative in my opinion

I would not practice on stainless as they can be harder to sharpen then some carbons (not always true but most of the time)

Do you have some junkier knives you can practice on? Such as maybe some German ones you are shying away from

To start out there is a king Combo Stone 1k/6k that is a good recommendation as a first stone

Which can be found at Dave's site for not to expensive here :

http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/Combination-sharpening-stone-1000x-6000x-p/combo1x6x.htm


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## jamaster14 (Feb 17, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> Jon's videos are very informative in my opinion
> 
> I would not practice on stainless as they can be harder to sharpen then some carbons (not always true but most of the time)
> 
> ...



i have a bunch of knives i dont care about i can practice on... wustoff and henkle knives mostly. but they are all stainless. i could buy a cheapie just to practice on if people think thats a better route.

any specific videos from jon? i really need a starting point. im a blank slate at this point


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## CoqaVin (Feb 17, 2014)

Not sure which ones specifically but just go here and look around :

http://www.youtube.com/user/JKnifeImports

You can practice on those German knives they are just a little softer than J Knives so they might not be as hard to sharpen since they are stainless

Not sure what cheap carbon options there are to practice on let me do some research and get back to you


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## Paradox (Feb 17, 2014)

This >LINK< is one of Jon's playlists on youtube. I'd go with the order he has them set up to get started. Then go where you need to. The Dave Martell DVD is also another good starting point.


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## CoqaVin (Feb 17, 2014)

There you go...only thing I can find is Old Hickory knives by Ontario Knife Co they are cheap and made of 1095 Carbon Steel


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## mhlee (Feb 17, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> There you go...only thing I can find is Old Hickory knives by Ontario Knife Co they are cheap and made of 1095 Carbon Steel



You're recommending that he buy a new carbon steel knife solely for the purpose of practicing how to sharpen?


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## Farrant (Feb 17, 2014)

I just got a 1k/4k combo stone, watched johns videos, then had a few practise goes on an old Victorinox (forschner in the us?) chefs knife. Learned to get an edge on that and then moved up to my more expensive knives. 

I'm far from good at it but slowly improving


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## The Edge (Feb 17, 2014)

I wouldn't suggest buying new knives to practice on. Just use your knives you don't care about. They won't give you quite the same feedback, and you most likely won't need to take them to anything higher than 1k with the softer steel. In freehand sharpening, the key is to keep a consistent angle when sharpening. Besides the king combo stone, I would also suggest something to flatten the stone on, whether it be a piece of granite with some sandpaper attached, or a flattening stone. If your stone isn't completely flat, it will be next to impossible to keep a consistent bevel. Good luck, and don't feel you have to rush anything when you start out. The magic marker trick is also a great tool when you are starting out on the stones...


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 17, 2014)

Yes there are a ton of video's out there it deff. pays to be selective.On JKI Jon's -knife sharpening playlist-the first 10 videos cover double bevel knives.If you watch these a few times there is much info. & he explains why as well.

You can practice with the German blades,but most have those full bolsters at the heel which make correct heel sharpening impossible.

The other option is to get a J-Gyuto reasonable price to practice on,then you also have a nice knife too.Couple Fujiwara FKH carbon,Suisin Inox,Carbonext.

I also like to reccom. a diamond plate.They work very well flattening your stone,& are also good for thinning out dull knives.You can get alot of use out of a plate including chip & tip repair.


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## jamaster14 (Feb 17, 2014)

Farrant said:


> I just got a 1k/4k combo stone, watched johns videos, then had a few practise goes on an old Victorinox (forschner in the us?) chefs knife. Learned to get an edge on that and then moved up to my more expensive knives.
> 
> I'm far from good at it but slowly improving



thats cool... im not looking to be an expert, just get to the point where i feel comfortable sharpening my good knives without ruining them


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 17, 2014)

Great you are on your way:thumbsup:


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## CoqaVin (Feb 17, 2014)

He wanted to know how Carbon felt sharpening compared to stainless so I recommended those because they are cheap that's all


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## mhlee (Feb 17, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> He wanted to know how Carbon felt sharpening compared to stainless so I recommended those because they are cheap that's all



SMH. He asked whether sharpening on cheap stainless would translate to semi-stainless or carbon steel knives. 

It absolutely does.


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## Ruso (Feb 17, 2014)

Cheap stainless knives is the way to go to learn the technique. And the technique is the most important and it will translate to any kind of knives. 
I would add that as the beginner you should check the edge sharpness in the same way all the time. You can try Murray Carter's 3 finger test or the thumbnail bite test but as the novice "tester" it will be hard to tell. Paper test seems to be the easier one to start with, make sure that you use the same paper on every test. Phone book or Yellow Pages works great.

To flatten the stones you can use drywall screen, less stickiness compared to the sand paper and wears off less quickly. "Nothing" beats diamond plate though :--/


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## Talim (Feb 17, 2014)

I bought a set of stones and learned how to sharpen before even buying my first knives. I learned to sharpen on my mom's cutcos and henkels. You have to practice a lot to get the basic motion consistent so the more knives you can sharpen the better you'll get. Every now and then I rewatch Jon's vids to pick up stuff I missed before and also reading discussions about thinning and sharpening in this forum helps a lot. Combo stones are good if you're on a budget but buying individuals stones might serve you better in the long run. Dave Martell sells a set which is a great starting point.


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## CoqaVin (Feb 17, 2014)

mhlee said:


> SMH. He asked whether sharpening on cheap stainless would translate to semi-stainless or carbon steel knives.
> 
> It absolutely does.



I misunderstood my mistake.

As someone stated above me technique will translate to any knife you use that't the key keeping in the same angle and motion no matter what knife you are sharpening


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## jamaster14 (Feb 17, 2014)

thanks for all the info everyone.


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## Chutotoro (Feb 19, 2014)

I agree that King 1000 is a good place to start. I think its better to just buy the 1000 solo stone than the 1000/6000 combo though, since its bigger, and he probably wont need a 6000 for a year or so anyway until he has learned to use the 1000 ;D But learning to flatten the stone is important when using King stones though, since they are pretty soft and wear out fast. Cheapest way to flatten is to buy those 3M wet sandpapersmade for drywalls. Think this is the one (not sure about grit, it should be around 140 or something) http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...0000_nid=XDWRTV3QHMgsRJ5GMFSMV0glZTL2R6R49Kbl


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## jamaster14 (Feb 20, 2014)

Chutotoro said:


> I agree that King 1000 is a good place to start. I think its better to just buy the 1000 solo stone than the 1000/6000 combo though, since its bigger, and he probably wont need a 6000 for a year or so anyway until he has learned to use the 1000 ;D But learning to flatten the stone is important when using King stones though, since they are pretty soft and wear out fast. Cheapest way to flatten is to buy those 3M wet sandpapersmade for drywalls. Think this is the one (not sure about grit, it should be around 140 or something) http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...0000_nid=XDWRTV3QHMgsRJ5GMFSMV0glZTL2R6R49Kbl



how to measure the flatness of a stone? do you use like a level or something?


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## ThEoRy (Feb 20, 2014)

Just make some marks on it with a pencil, then flatten it until all the marks are gone.


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## Chef Doom (Feb 21, 2014)

I agree with getting a stone buy itself. A 1000 stone should be enough to get anyone started. After a while it will guide you to which direction you want to go. I'm a fan of the big red muddy brick. Still use it till this day. 

Although you can practice on a cheap or softer German knife, if you are not going to actually use the knives you are practicing on, I say get a okay sub $100 J-knife as a short term go to knife for a few months to practice on. Dealing with the frustrations of your sharpening mistakes during the cooking process is half the fun. No pain no gain.


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## labor of love (Feb 22, 2014)

When you consider which stone(s) to purchase, one of the things to consider is what kind of knife will you be using to do the sharpening with. some stones work better for simple carbons knives, some are great for stainless knives, some are really great and necessary for stubborn stainless knives. For instance, i can tell you from personal experience i much prefer hard 1k stones generally for stainless knives and 1200 grit softer stones for carbon. What knives do you use currently and what kinds of knives to you plan to purchase in the future?


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## jamaster14 (Feb 24, 2014)

labor of love said:


> When you consider which stone(s) to purchase, one of the things to consider is what kind of knife will you be using to do the sharpening with. some stones work better for simple carbons knives, some are great for stainless knives, some are really great and necessary for stubborn stainless knives. For instance, i can tell you from personal experience i much prefer hard 1k stones generally for stainless knives and 1200 grit softer stones for carbon. What knives do you use currently and what kinds of knives to you plan to purchase in the future?



i have all stainless now, but recently purchased a carbon and semi-stainless


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## jamaster14 (Feb 24, 2014)

ThEoRy said:


> Just make some marks on it with a pencil, then flatten it until all the marks are gone.



does this work? what if i over flatten in some area's woulnd the pencil marks go away but the stone still not be flat?


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## Talim (Feb 24, 2014)

jamaster14 said:


> does this work? what if i over flatten in some area's woulnd the pencil marks go away but the stone still not be flat?



[video=youtube;ZFahNJEkTGg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFahNJEkTGg&list=PLEBF55079F53216AB&index=18[/video]


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## daveb (Feb 24, 2014)

I asked the same questions re flattening and got some good info here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/8590-How-flat-is-flat


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## jamaster14 (Feb 25, 2014)

daveb said:


> I asked the same questions re flattening and got some good info here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/8590-How-flat-is-flat




thanks!


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## mhpr262 (Feb 25, 2014)

For flattening my stones I use a super cheap whetstone I bought at the German version of Home Depot. It is so hard that it is useless for anything else but it works suprisingly well for that purpose.


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