# Line Work Horse Stainless Gyuto/Kiritsuke $70-90 Preferred!?! "Which Knife Should I Buy?"



## TEWNCfarms (May 12, 2018)

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto or Kiritsuke

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
180-210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Sadly for this knife, Yes

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$160 but preferably between $70-100, or at most $100-130. $160 if for something that is unbelievable that I have to buy because it won't be there in a few months.


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Everything really, it's going to be general work horse for the Line at the restaurant I work. Hence why I Need stainless, because I won't be able to spend time maintaining it and preventing rust.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
a Cheap Sekizo Santoku 180mm

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
All of them; Push-Cut, Rock , Slice, Draw, Chop, and Walk.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Better edge retention, a stronger steel, better holding and looking, just an all around better knife.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Any uniqueness is preferred, I would prefer damascus and an exoctic wood, but At Least a wooden handle.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Heavier knife and improved balance

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Better food release, maybe, and the rest regardless of what it is i'm sure will be better!

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
At least a few days of continual 10+ hours of use each day.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Synthetic

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
I'm always learning more

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes actually have a natural stone on the way as we speak.



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS


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## ThEoRy (May 13, 2018)

I don't think you need a kiritsuke. That's a totally different animal than what you may be looking for. It's a single bevel hybrid knife that's a cross between usuba and yanagiba. So unless you are working the sushi bar and are doing katsuramuki and slicing sashimi and need to save space you most likely don't need one. 
And even if you did need one you certainly aren't going to find it for $90. Not even close.

So anyway if I could make a suggestion that ticks a few of your boxes check out this 210mm Gesshin stainless wa-gyuto. 
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-stainless-210mm-wa-gyuto


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## daveb (May 13, 2018)

What he said. From Jon's description he brought this knife to the market to meet the requirements you've described - an entry level priced knife that will perform well. 

As noted you're not going to touch a traditional kiritsuke within your budget. I expect you're looking for a double bevel knife with a cool looking tip that's better described as a K-tip gyuto. You may find a cheap one but it will likely be all show and no go.


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## Jville (May 13, 2018)

That gesshin stainless looks like a spot on rec. I would still probably take my chances on the kaeru.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 13, 2018)

That gesshin looks to have a good grind on it often cheaper knives are lacking in this most important category. Even comes with a saya. 

Another cheap knife that performs well is the JCK Natures Blue Moon series Gyuto. Oval Chestnut handle resin bolster. San Mai Nashiji Blue#2 core steel stainless cladding. I know you said stainless, but the carbon core steel takes a razor edge and patina only on edge of knife. 98.00 210mm gyuto. Also has a good grind that cuts well.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 13, 2018)

ThEoRy said:


> I don't think you need a kiritsuke. That's a totally different animal than what you may be looking for. It's a single bevel hybrid knife that's a cross between usuba and yanagiba. So unless you are working the sushi bar and are doing katsuramuki and slicing sashimi and need to save space you most likely don't need one.
> And even if you did need one you certainly aren't going to find it for $90. Not even close.
> 
> So anyway if I could make a suggestion that ticks a few of your boxes check out this 210mm Gesshin stainless wa-gyuto.
> https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-stainless-210mm-wa-gyuto



Yeah I just realized that a few days ago, I guess a Kiritsuke style gyuto, not a traditional Kiritsuke

And I like that knife Ive seen it before thanks for the suggestion


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## TEWNCfarms (May 13, 2018)

daveb said:


> What he said. From Jon's description he brought this knife to the market to meet the requirements you've described - an entry level priced knife that will perform well.
> 
> As noted you're not going to touch a traditional kiritsuke within your budget. I expect you're looking for a double bevel knife with a cool looking tip that's better described as a K-tip gyuto. You may find a cheap one but it will likely be all show and no go.



Yeah exactly. I dont know my Gekko has turned out to be a rockstar honestly


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## TEWNCfarms (May 13, 2018)

Keith Sinclair said:


> That gesshin looks to have a good grind on it often cheaper knives are lacking in this most important category. Even comes with a saya.
> 
> Another cheap knife that performs well is the JCK Natures Blue Moon series Gyuto. Oval Chestnut handle resin bolster. San Mai Nashiji Blue#2 core steel stainless cladding. I know you said stainless, but the carbon core steel takes a razor edge and patina only on edge of knife. 98.00 210mm gyuto. Also has a good grind that cuts well.



Id love to get that but the only thing is I wont be the only one using it, others will and I cant rely on them especially when busy to wipe it down. Would it rust on the edge Im assuming? If not taken care of?


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## Keith Sinclair (May 14, 2018)

Even a days cutting will start to form a protective patina. Just wash & wipe the blade dry at end of shift. What are you cutting on the line? Proteins either knife should work well. You & your compadre's should not bang the edge into anything hard. At work was kind of picky who I let use my knives. They got borrowed because I kept them very sharp.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 14, 2018)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Even a days cutting will start to form a protective patina. Just wash & wipe the blade dry at end of shift. What are you cutting on the line? Proteins either knife should work well. You & your compadre's should not bang the edge into anything hard. At work was kind of picky who I let use my knives. They got borrowed because I kept them very sharp.



Pretty much everything. From raw proteins of all sorts, veggies, to cooked proteins and sandwiches, etc. yeah I dont really let people use my blue #2 Gekko if they ask Ill let them but Im watching them closely to make sure they wipe it off! So youre saying that it wont rust on me? I cut an onion one time with blue No.2 and forgot to wipe and a friend says you better be careful, not even five minutes after it had a crazy insane yellow stain on it that looked like it could have turned into rust really easy


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## TEWNCfarms (May 14, 2018)

Any other suggestions?! I like both of the suggestions so far, but why would those be better than a cheaper one? Just asking. Wondering what is good about these knives and anything unique? Compared to like some Dalstrong haha! Not that Id buy a dalstrong but just using that as an example. Or this knife for $52 https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/323020927482 simple like the other ones, just not a Japanese handle...


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## daddy yo yo (May 14, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Any other suggestions?! I like both of the suggestions so far, but why would those be better than a cheaper one? Just asking. Wondering what is good about these knives and anything unique? Compared to like some Dalstrong haha! Not that Id buy a dalstrong but just using that as an example. Or this knife for $52 https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/323020927482 simple like the other ones, just not a Japanese handle...



Because they are from reliable sellers with a very good reputation, and people made good experience with these knives.


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## ThEoRy (May 14, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Any other suggestions?! I like both of the suggestions so far, but why would those be better than a cheaper one? Just asking. Wondering what is good about these knives and anything unique? Compared to like some Dalstrong haha! Not that Id buy a dalstrong but just using that as an example. Or this knife for $52 https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/323020927482 simple like the other ones, just not a Japanese handle...



Because that knife looks ****.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 14, 2018)

Grind is everything on a knife. Take a look at the Gesshin Stainless it has a grind choil shot picture. It is thicker and tapers to a thin edge. Many cheaper knives are thick behind the edge don't cut as well & dull fast.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 14, 2018)

ThEoRy said:


> Because that knife looks ****.


Haha! I mean to me the JKI one suggested isnt that great looking either if Im going to spend that much especially on a stainless knife Id rather have a better looking one. And the one you say looks like s hut isnt much worse than the JKI one. And I dont want some bland knife that cant develop a patina which I cant with stainless. So Id rather have a Damascus blade or something else that is unique


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## TEWNCfarms (May 14, 2018)

Id rather buy these for the around the same price honestly...
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/221595665801
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/222525927880
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/372289859127
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/332638088360


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## daddy yo yo (May 14, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Id rather buy these for the around the same price honestly...
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/221595665801
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/222525927880
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/372289859127
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/332638088360



Go for it! I got it now, I think, you want bling for the buck, not bang...

ON TOPIC: don't know, maybe a VG10 Damascus gyuto from Tanaka? And there are Blue #2 in stainless clad Nashiji gyutos too from Tanaka...


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## ThEoRy (May 14, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Haha! I mean to me the JKI one suggested isnt that great looking either if Im going to spend that much especially on a stainless knife Id rather have a better looking one. And the one you say looks like s hut isnt much worse than the JKI one. And I dont want some bland knife that cant develop a patina which I cant with stainless. So Id rather have a Damascus blade or something else that is unique



You misunderstand. I'm not saying the knife looks like **** aesthetically. What I'm saying is that the quality of that knife you posted looks like **** in comparison. As in the one I posted is a better made, better performing knife. But what do I know? I've only actually used the one and not the other. Why don't you stop ******* around and just give Jon a call already. I'm sure he could explain it better than I could.


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## Jville (May 14, 2018)

Op you do seem rather concerned with aesthetics. If that is your goal, there is nothing wrong with that necessarily. I would perhaps just get what you want or follow the Tanaka rec although it might be a little more. Also you could go with a takayuki vg10 Damascus hammered. I will say there are plenty of knive nuts that may not own a single Damascus knife, currently I'd be one, not that there is anything wrong with Damascus. But there is much more to a knife than Damascus cladding. Usually when you are on a budget alot of people will try to steer you to a knive that gets the most performance for your money, rather than, focusing on blingy cladding. In the end it's your cash and you should spend it how you want it to satisfy your preferences.


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## Jville (May 14, 2018)

You could also walk in to your local Williams and Sonoma and maybe catch a shun premier on sale.


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## Nemo (May 14, 2018)

Pretty knives cost more with no gain in performance. In this price bracket, if you get a pretty knife, it's unlikely to perform well.

Saying it another way, if you want a knife which which will perform, you need to spend (a lot) more to also get a knife which is pretty.


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## Jville (May 14, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Haha! I mean to me the JKI one suggested isnt that great looking either if Im going to spend that much especially on a stainless knife Id rather have a better looking one. And the one you say looks like s hut isnt much worse than the JKI one. And I dont want some bland knife that cant develop a patina which I cant with stainless. So Id rather have a Damascus blade or something else that is unique



Although some Damascus knives are really cool and unique the ones you r looking at aren't really that unique. You r probably just not used to seeing them so they come off as unique. Shun classics come off as amazing knives to newbs(you may even hear them heralded as the best), partially because of the cladding and their supposed super steel, but they are fairly average or entry level jks and there are arguably much better entries into jks, some have already been mentioned.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 14, 2018)

Any Other Suggestions Anyone?!



ThEoRy said:


> You misunderstand. I'm not saying the knife looks like **** aesthetically. What I'm saying is that the quality of that knife you posted looks like **** in comparison. As in the one I posted is a better made, better performing knife. But what do I know? I've only actually used the one and not the other. Why don't you stop ******* around and just give Jon a call already. I'm sure he could explain it better than I could.



haha yeah I mean i'm not really questioning that the gesshin will be better, but really how much better...??! I will say you all have almost convinced me to buy it, I watched the video Jon made and it definitely seems like a great knife, but I don't know...



Jville said:


> Op you do seem rather concerned with aesthetics. If that is your goal, there is nothing wrong with that necessarily. I would perhaps just get what you want or follow the Tanaka rec although it might be a little more. Also you could go with a takayuki vg10 Damascus hammered. I will say there are plenty of knive nuts that may not own a single Damascus knife, currently I'd be one, not that there is anything wrong with Damascus. But there is much more to a knife than Damascus cladding. Usually when you are on a budget alot of people will try to steer you to a knive that gets the most performance for your money, rather than, focusing on blingy cladding. In the end it's your cash and you should spend it how you want it to satisfy your preferences.



Yeah and I guess that's where i'm at, I just don't really understand yet Exactly what makes a "good" knife good. And I guess that's kind of why I want to buy that knife just so I can see the difference. Like I can tell minor differences, and I like my Gekko Way Better than the sekizo I was gifted because it's heavier and holds an edge better and is bigger And It Looks Better. And so if I can get a decent knife that looks cool and unique i'd rather do that.. I don't know!!!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 14, 2018)

daddy yo yo said:


> Go for it! I got it now, I think, you want bling for the buck, not bang...
> 
> ON TOPIC: don't know, maybe a VG10 Damascus gyuto from Tanaka? And there are Blue #2 in stainless clad Nashiji gyutos too from Tanaka...


haha yeah I guess you could say that, but not necessarily either... like I said I don't really know what the difference is!!
I haven't really used a good knife, the only "good" knives I have really used have been either wustof pros or shun knives that cost no more than $100. So I haven't ever really used a Good knife in all honesty the Gekko I have that was $111 haha is the Best knife I have actually used, and I Definitely know even though I love this knife that there are Way Better Knives out there.


Jville said:


> You could also walk in to your local Williams and Sonoma and maybe catch a shun premier on sale.


haha definitely! I think i'll have to pass on that, I Hate Shuns! and by the time I buy a shun at W&S i'd could have Actually gotten a Good knife.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 14, 2018)

Jville said:


> Although some Damascus knives are really cool and unique the ones you r looking at aren't really that unique. You r probably just not used to seeing them so they come off as unique. Shun classics come off as amazing knives to newbs(you may even hear them heralded as the best), partially because of the cladding and their supposed super steel, but they are fairly average or entry level jks and there are arguably much better entries into jks, some have already been mentioned.


yeah see that's exactly what I don't want, like I want a damascus, but I also want a Unique Damascus. A pattern that doesn't resemble shun or other average ones. Like an HHH or Kramer pattern haha! But I know that's not possible without spending $500-1000 At Least. 

The more I keep talking about this more I feel like the Gesshin may be what I should get. I guess another thing is that I am just antsy to buy another knife, and I can buy a $70 much sooner than I could a $140 knife (because even though it says $120 i'm sure the shipping is going to be high...?)

Any discount codes and or deals for some Knives from JKI Jon?!


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## daveb (May 14, 2018)

That knife is probably the best deal in the knife world at $120. If you pay attention you'll notice Jon offers free shipping, within the states, for purchases over $100. $120 is over that threshold.

I work with a guy that asks for advice only to have something to argue about. Tell me you're not that guy??? hehehe


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## panda (May 14, 2018)

this dude sound like he wants a shun but doesnt want to be made fun of for it.

dave i called out someone for the same thing on the forum just a few minutes ago about miyabi.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 15, 2018)

daveb said:


> That knife is probably the best deal in the knife world at $120. If you pay attention you'll notice Jon offers free shipping, within the states, for purchases over $100. $120 is over that threshold.
> 
> I work with a guy that asks for advice only to have something to argue about. Tell me you're not that guy??? hehehe


Haha no Im not haha! Though I do like to question everything. But nice I guess I may have to buy it, you guys I think have talked me into it... I want to see if this knife really is that much better.?


panda said:


> this dude sound like he wants a shun but doesnt want to be made fun of for it.
> 
> dave i called out someone for the same thing on the forum just a few minutes ago about miyabi.


Haha nah bra no way bro beans! I dont want a miyabi either. I dont want any sort of mass produced hyped knife, and shuns are all ugly to me.

What about a better knife going up to $160 like that kaeur that jville mentioned?!?


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## ThEoRy (May 15, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Haha no Im not haha! Though I do like to question everything. But nice I guess I may have to buy it, you guys I think have talked me into it... I want to see if this knife really is that much better.?
> 
> Haha nah bra no way bro beans! I dont want a miyabi either. I dont want any sort of mass produced hyped knife, and shuns are all ugly to me.
> 
> What about a better knife going up to $160 like that kaeur that jville mentioned?!?




I don't know your sharpening experience so don't take this the wrong way but maybe ask Jon to do the initial sharpening on the knife so you have a baseline on how the knife should perform.


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## Nemo (May 15, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> I just don't really understand yet Exactly what makes a "good" knife good.



My take- in decending prder of priority (for a knife which you intend to actually use):
1) A grind which optimises the tradeoff between thinness behind the edge and food release.
2) A heat treatment which offers a good balance of sharpenability, edge retention and toughness appropriate to the knife's intended use.
3) A profile appropriate to the knife's intended use.
4) A vendor who provides excellent pre-, intra- and post- sales service.
5) A steel appropriate to the knife's intended use. 
6) A comfortable handle and spine and choil.
7) Pretty handles and pretty blade face treatments (such as damascus).
8) Special, difficult to make and expensive processes such as honyaki or integral/ monosteel damascus

Priorities for collectors obviously are a little different.

At your price point, if you can get even close to fulfilling points 1 through 5, you are on a winner.


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## Nomsdotcom (May 15, 2018)

Think about it like you are buying a car. You can get a car on ebay with a bunch of neon and a big wing on it. It's going to break down on you, and drive terribly. You've got bling but no bite. Better to get a knife that will perform. Especially at your price bracket. Trying to buy a Ferrari for Geo Metro money from some random street corner (to stick with the car analogy) isn't going to work out well for you.


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## Jville (May 15, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Haha no Im not haha! Though I do like to question everything. But nice I guess I may have to buy it, you guys I think have talked me into it... I want to see if this knife really is that much better.?
> 
> Haha nah bra no way bro beans! I dont want a miyabi either. I dont want any sort of mass produced hyped knife, and shuns are all ugly to me.
> 
> What about a better knife going up to $160 like that kaeur that jville mentioned?!?



The kaeru 210 is out of stock but it would have only been $128. Some guys on the kaeru thread said the tip isn't the whispiest, which isn't always a bad thing. But the gesshin by specs looks like it should have a nice thin tip and be an all around good performer. Also it comes with a saya, which is quite a nice feature imo.

One thing with getting any of these softer stainless knives and putting them through +10 hour shifts in a pro kitchen there is a good chance you will need to hone them. Depending on how much prep you do maybe a couple of times in a shift. That is something to consider. You could get a ceramic rod to use at work or carry a stone or some type of strop.

I started on two softer stainless steel jks, when I first started and would sometimes hone multiple times a day depending on what was going on. I finally moved into an srs 15 steel and I could always make it through a shift. I would just do a touch-up at the house and be good to go again for the next day. Getting into a powdered steel is something you may want to consider, and it is something that may help you realize increase in cost. The softer steel can take a little more abuse, but my srs15 was actually uite tough considering the steels hardness. You could always upgrade later and appreciate it then. But having a sharp knive the whole day in a pro environment is one aspect investing in your tools pays off.


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## Nemo (May 15, 2018)

Only PM steel I can think of close to this price range is Tojiro HSPS. Not a bad knife at all for the price although fit and finish can be a little indifferent.


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## Jville (May 15, 2018)

Nemo said:


> Only PM steel I can think of close to this price range is Tojiro HSPS. Not a bad knife at all for the price although fit and finish can be a little indifferent.



It definitely starts to stretch the budget a little, but he could also get into a takamura r2 in the range.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 15, 2018)

ThEoRy said:


> I don't know your sharpening experience so don't take this the wrong way but maybe ask Jon to do the initial sharpening on the knife so you have a baseline on how the knife should perform.


No offense taken at all, I am actually pretty good at sharpening, but.... that is a Great Idea!!! Thanks for suggesting that, so I can get a feel of what is professionally sharp. Maybe Im right on the money, or more likely Im pretty far off. Thanks


Nemo said:


> My take- in decending prder of priority (for a knife which you intend to actually use):
> 1) A grind which optimises the tradeoff between thinness behind the edge and food release.
> 2) A heat treatment which offers a good balance of sharpenability, edge retention and toughness appropriate to the knife's intended use.
> 3) A profile appropriate to the knife's intended use.
> ...


I really appreciate this this was really helpful! See I didnt realize the grind is what makes things stick. How exactly do different grinds make one knifevsticky and the other not? This might be a good topic for a new thread!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 15, 2018)

ThEoRy said:


> I don't know your sharpening experience so don't take this the wrong way but maybe ask Jon to do the initial sharpening on the knife so you have a baseline on how the knife should perform.



Is the initial sharpening free? Or is it $20?


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## Nemo (May 15, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> I really appreciate this this was really helpful! See I didnt realize the grind is what makes things stick. How exactly do different grinds make one knifevsticky and the other not? This might be a good topic for a new thread!



It's kinda already been done.

For example:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=33951

And for a theoretical/ experimental exploration of what may be possible:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=35641


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## JBroida (May 15, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Is the initial sharpening free? Or is it $20?



Free... theres a notice about that and the free shipping at the top of my website


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## daveb (May 15, 2018)

Me thinks he needs pictures....[emoji41]


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## Keith Sinclair (May 15, 2018)

Tricked out ride with big wing, neon lights all over, couple inches off the ground. Looks rad don't get near curbs or bumps will mess it up. A knife with a lot of bling that's not sharp & doesn't cut well is kind of make a$$ in a work place. Better to have a plain Jaine under the radar that cuts well.


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## Nomsdotcom (May 15, 2018)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Tricked out ride with big wing, neon lights all over, couple inches off the ground. Looks rad don't get near curbs or bumps will mess it up. A knife with a lot of bling that's not sharp & doesn't cut well is kind of make a$$ in a work place. Better to have a plain Jaine under the radar that cuts well.


And if you really like that entry level knife/ car you can eventually improve it. Changing profile/thinning (like adding an new airfilter or tires) or get some fancy custom handle (blingy wheels). 

And I think it would be a good idea for OP to read through the sharpening side of the forum. There are a lot of good post that are going to help you in the future, I can almost guarantee you aren't sharpening nearly as well as you think you are...


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## TEWNCfarms (May 15, 2018)

Jville said:


> The kaeru 210 is out of stock but it would have only been $128. Some guys on the kaeru thread said the tip isn't the whispiest, which isn't always a bad thing. But the gesshin by specs looks like it should have a nice thin tip and be an all around good performer. Also it comes with a saya, which is quite a nice feature imo.
> 
> One thing with getting any of these softer stainless knives and putting them through +10 hour shifts in a pro kitchen there is a good chance you will need to hone them. Depending on how much prep you do maybe a couple of times in a shift. That is something to consider. You could get a ceramic rod to use at work or carry a stone or some type of strop.
> 
> I started on two softer stainless steel jks, when I first started and would sometimes hone multiple times a day depending on what was going on. I finally moved into an srs 15 steel and I could always make it through a shift. I would just do a touch-up at the house and be good to go again for the next day. Getting into a powdered steel is something you may want to consider, and it is something that may help you realize increase in cost. The softer steel can take a little more abuse, but my srs15 was actually uite tough considering the steels hardness. You could always upgrade later and appreciate it then. But having a sharp knive the whole day in a pro environment is one aspect investing in your tools pays off.



Thats interesting you say that because that cheap sekizo is very soft and I can get it sharp enough where it lasts two to three days of continuous line work granted its not falling through paper but its better than the house knives still.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 15, 2018)

Nomsdotcom said:


> And if you really like that entry level knife/ car you can eventually improve it. Changing profile/thinning (like adding an new airfilter or tires) or get some fancy custom handle (blingy wheels).
> 
> And I think it would be a good idea for OP to read through the sharpening side of the forum. There are a lot of good post that are going to help you in the future, I can almost guarantee you aren't sharpening nearly as well as you think you are...



Eh... I dont know about that I sharpen any knife now to a polished razor edge where I can shave with it. Now Im definitely Not saying I couldnt learn more theres Always more to learn and experience to gain no matter what the field.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 15, 2018)

Nemo said:


> It's kinda already been done.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


Awesome thanks for the links cant wait to read!


JBroida said:


> Free... theres a notice about that and the free shipping at the top of my website



And awesome thanks for letting me know and free shipping and sharpening. I definitely think Ill be buying it in a few months


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## Nemo (May 15, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Eh... I dont know about that I sharpen any knife now to a polished razor edge where I can shave with it. Now Im definitely Not saying I couldnt learn more theres Always more to learn and experience to gain no matter what the field.


Do you use the knife to shave?


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## TEWNCfarms (May 15, 2018)

Haha yes thats the real reason I want a new knife


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## Nemo (May 15, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Haha yes thats the real reason I want a new knife


My point is, the edge that you would put on a knife that you want to shave with is different to the edge you would put on it to cut food with.


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## Nomsdotcom (May 15, 2018)

Nemo said:


> My point is, the edge that you would put on a knife that you want to shave with is different to the edge you would put on it to cut food with.


Also if you are able to achieve true shaving level sharpness with cheap cheap stainless steel, that's probably only lasting for one or two board contacts...


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## TEWNCfarms (May 15, 2018)

Nemo said:


> My point is, the edge that you would put on a knife that you want to shave with is different to the edge you would put on it to cut food with.





Nomsdotcom said:


> Also if you are able to achieve true shaving level sharpness with cheap cheap stainless steel, that's probably only lasting for one or two board contacts...


Well why not? Its been quite well for me. You want a bite Im sure is the answer. Well it hasnt slipped away from me yet, it cuts through exactly where I need when I need it. 

And it actually lasts a half a day at that razor sharpness, and about two days of good sharpness; the cheap soft steel knife thats used all day.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 15, 2018)

So what about this knife? How much better would this one be? Jon are you going to be stocking it back up in the next few months? https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...oducts/gesshin-uraku-210mm-stainless-wa-gyuto


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## ThEoRy (May 16, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> So what about this knife? How much better would this one be? Jon are you going to be stocking it back up in the next few months? https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...oducts/gesshin-uraku-210mm-stainless-wa-gyuto



I've gotten SOOOOO MANY of those uraku for employees, friends, family members etc. Based on budget and needs I highly recommend them for first timers "taking the plunge".


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## JBroida (May 16, 2018)

its on order, but no clear eta... we actually just restocked them and they sold out again in a few days, but i've already got quite a few more on order


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## panda (May 16, 2018)

that wont work, it's not damascus!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 16, 2018)

Awesome thanks for the advice.

Oh I know panda I know...! But you all talk so highly about it I want to see what all the hype is about this amazon prime membership 

Again, Any Other Suggestions Anyone!?! I only got two, there has to be more out there.


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## labor of love (May 16, 2018)

Not alot of sub $100 wa handle stuff to choose from. Spend more money and youll find more options.


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## panda (May 16, 2018)

better get a 20k grit stone


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## TEWNCfarms (May 16, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Not alot of sub $100 wa handle stuff to choose from. Spend more money and youll find more options.


What about for $160?


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## labor of love (May 16, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> What about for $160?



Yes. Many more options. $160 for a 210mm wa gyuto? Hold my beer. Ill make you a list.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 16, 2018)

JBroida said:


> its on order, but no clear eta... we actually just restocked them and they sold out again in a few days, but i've already got quite a few more on order



Must be a good sign if they sold out that quick! Which one would you recommend that one or the 125 one? Not because youre trying to sell it haha but which one would be sturdier and hold an edge better? Also do either of them have a grind that food doesnt stick to it?


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## JBroida (May 16, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Must be a good sign if they sold out that quick! Which one would you recommend that one or the 125 one? Not because youre trying to sell it haha but which one would be sturdier and hold an edge better? Also do either of them have a grind that food doesnt stick to it?



depends... the uraku has slightly better edge retention and is a tiny bit more tough and durable, but the gesshin stainless is thinner in the middle and behind the edge, and is easier to sharpen.


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## labor of love (May 16, 2018)

Ive been working with this kaeru for the past week and I really enjoy it. Cool profile and is good for line cook stuff.
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kasumi-stainless-gyuto-210mm/

Wakui is great for people on a budget, thin grinds(use caution) however the core steel is carbon but it sharpens up quickly and is a lot of fun.
http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=95732

Tanaka ginsanko that K&S has is also great. Not quite as thin as wakui but quite good.
http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-ginsan-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-lite/

Sukenari ginsanko for around $150ish including shipping 
https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...to-210mm-to-270mm-3-sizes?variant=29955777923

Gonbei is right at $160. 
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ducts/gonbei-210mm-hammered-damascus-wa-gyuto


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## TEWNCfarms (May 16, 2018)

JBroida said:


> depends... the uraku has slightly better edge retention and is a tiny bit more tough and durable, but the gesshin stainless is thinner in the middle and behind the edge, and is easier to sharpen.


Easier to sharpen isnt really a concern for me. And from the knives that labor of love sent are nice but I think Id rather go with the uraku... do either of these have a grind that food doesnt stick too? You have any specials going on with these or other knives?!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 16, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Ive been working with this kaeru for the past week and I really enjoy it. Cool profile and is good for line cook stuff.
> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kasumi-stainless-gyuto-210mm/
> 
> Wakui is great for people on a budget, thin grinds(use caution) however the core steel is carbon but it sharpens up quickly and is a lot of fun.
> ...


Thanks! Id yoy were to pick what would you pick?! From all of the suggestions so far including JKI


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## Keith Sinclair (May 16, 2018)

Nice list Craig, just going up around 50.00 you get a lot more selection.


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## labor of love (May 16, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Thanks! Id yoy were to pick what would you pick?! From all of the suggestions so far including JKI



Ive owned or used all the knives I mentioned with exception of the sukenari. I also owned uraku too. I recommended them because I like all of them haha. If I were you Id compare the profiles, blade shapes, weights, handles and everything else. Come back and tell me which one jumps out at you.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 16, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Ive owned or used all the knives I mentioned with exception of the sukenari. I also owned uraku too. I recommended them because I like all of them haha. If I were you Id compare the profiles, blade shapes, weights, handles and everything else. Come back and tell me which one jumps out at you.


Okay cool I appreciate it


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## TEWNCfarms (May 16, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Ive owned or used all the knives I mentioned with exception of the sukenari. I also owned uraku too. I recommended them because I like all of them haha. If I were you Id compare the profiles, blade shapes, weights, handles and everything else. Come back and tell me which one jumps out at you.


I think I like that Tanaka the best... but I dont know the weight it doesnt say. Of that and the uraku and the JKI 125 which do you think is the best? You say you owned them all, did you get rid of them? Why?


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## labor of love (May 16, 2018)

Theyre all different...we dont like to think of things in terms of better or best in knifeland. Different knives have different attributes, different strengths and weaknesses. Jon is really good to talk to, I recommend discussing any of his knives directly with him as he is obviously more of an expert on his stuff than I am. Tanaka is a great choice too. 
Dont let the fact that I used own this stuff have an impact on your decision. I buy and sell ALOT.


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## daveb (May 16, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> ...Of that and the uraku and the JKI 125 which do you think is the best? You say you owned them all, did you get rid of them? Why?



Pay attention silly man. LoL changes knives more often than most change their shorts. I like to pay attention to what he's buying cause it will be for sale soon at a nicely discounted price:cool2:


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## ThEoRy (May 16, 2018)

Just buy a knife already. Like any knife!!!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 16, 2018)

daveb said:


> Pay attention silly man. LoL changes knives more often than most change their shorts. I like to pay attention to what he's buying cause it will be for sale soon at a nicely discounted price:cool2:


Hahaha!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 16, 2018)

ThEoRy said:


> Just buy a knife already. Like any knife!!!


Haha I know I know! I just cant decide! I want to just get a cheap knife but then I also want to spend the money and see what all the fuss is about and then if Im spending $125 Im like I might as well spend an extra $30 and get something even better ! I dont know!!!


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## panda (May 17, 2018)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XT4GJO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## ThEoRy (May 17, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Haha I know I know! I just cant decide! I want to just get a cheap knife but then I also want to spend the money and see what all the fuss is about and then if Im spending $125 Im like I might as well spend an extra $30 and get something even better ! I dont know!!!



You know what my Grandpa said? "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things." So instead of buying several cheaper unsatisfactory products, just buy one good one that will last you.


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## JBroida (May 17, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Easier to sharpen isnt really a concern for me. And from the knives that labor of love sent are nice but I think Id rather go with the uraku... do either of these have a grind that food doesnt stick too? You have any specials going on with these or other knives?!



they are both pretty normal with regard to food release... better than lasers, not as good as wide bevels


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## Jville (May 17, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Haha I know I know! I just cant decide! I want to just get a cheap knife but then I also want to spend the money and see what all the fuss is about and then if Im spending $125 Im like I might as well spend an extra $30 and get something even better ! I dont know!!!



Spend $199 and get a harakaze srs15 the edge retention will definitely awaken you to the benefits of a powdered steel. And actually I find it a really great pro knife.

Although pandas rec might be more practical for you.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 17, 2018)

ThEoRy said:


> You know what my Grandpa said? "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things." So instead of buying several cheaper unsatisfactory products, just buy one good one that will last you.



Thats a Great quote! I love that! So true, quality not quantity. Thanks for saying that.


panda said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XT4GJO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


Sold!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 17, 2018)

Jville said:


> Spend $199 and get a harakaze srs15 the edge retention will definitely awaken you to the benefits of a powdered steel. And actually I find it a really great pro knife.
> 
> Although pandas rec might be more practical for you.


Do you have a link?
I found it thanks. Not really my style especially for $200


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## Jville (May 17, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Do you have a link?
> I found it thanks. Not really my style especially for $200



I forgot it doesn't have Damascus cladding :biggrin:. The edge will most likely last more than double than that Mizuno. Also from what I've heard I think the harakaze should be thinner behind the edg and better performer, but I haven't used the mixuno. But clad you found what you want.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 17, 2018)

Jville said:


> I forgot it doesn't have Damascus cladding :biggrin:. The edge will most likely last more than double than that Mizuno. But I'm clad you found one you liked.


Haha! Yeah i just really dont like a non Wa handle.

And thus following question is for anyone... 

So saltydog has a video of the Sakai Takayuki Ginsan Wa Gyuto... which i didnt realize some of the ebay selections I had were Takayukis, though they werent the specific Ginsan Wa.

But so this Tanaka Ginsan is definitely probably my new favorite, from the weight and it being Ginsan, aesthetics, etc... But would this Tanaka Ginsan have close to the same grind as the Sakai Tanaka Ginsan that is shown on saltydogs video? Because that potato didnt stick whatsoever! 

I really appreciate the suggestion labor of love i think that Tanaka is my new goal!



labor of love said:


> Ive been working with this kaeru for the past week and I really enjoy it. Cool profile and is good for line cook stuff.
> http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kasumi-stainless-gyuto-210mm/
> 
> Wakui is great for people on a budget, thin grinds(use caution) however the core steel is carbon but it sharpens up quickly and is a lot of fun.
> ...


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## Jville (May 17, 2018)

Op you know often pros approach knives as tools for their work in the kitchen. And focus on performance, but this time around your eyes were elsewhere. I've had and kept that srs15 knive and it phenominal in a pro environment. Just something to think about for your next purchase.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 17, 2018)

Jville said:


> Op you know often pros approach knives as tools for their work in the kitchen. And focus on performance, but this time around your eyes were elsewhere. I've had and kept that srs15 knive and it pheneminal bin a pro environment. Just something to think about for your next purchase.


Cool thanks man. Yeah Im getting there slowly but surely...


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## Keith Sinclair (May 17, 2018)

Have the Tanaka Ginsan Lite 240mm. Has a dark octagon handle with horn bolster. It is a tall bevel blade, thin behind the edge & easy to sharpen. You mentioned ease of sharpening not that important, well with 4-5 banquet sheets up on the weekend feel that ease of sharpening is as important as other properties of a blade. That's why like Carbon knives stupid easy to keep edges sharp.

Tanaka also has chisel carved Kanji, all my knives have that. It is kind of like Damascus does not make the knife cut better. It does usually mean that the knife is hand forged. The 210mm is 49mm at the heel not bad for a smaller knife, also like that the heel extends back some. The Ginsan is quality stain resistant steel. The powder steels I have used SRS15, R2, SKD have a little better edge retention and cost more than the Tanaka. The strength of the Tanaka is geometry it cuts as well or better than blades that cost much more. Most all knives food like potatoes stick to side of the blade it is not a deal breaker. Tanaka is decent, my Kochi has little better release. You should google Tanaka forging video's gives a little juice to getting a hand forged blade.

From AUS. there is some shipping cost. Jon's knives come with saya's and shipping is free.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 17, 2018)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Have the Tanaka Ginsan Lite 240mm. Has a dark octagon handle with horn bolster. It is a tall bevel blade, thin behind the edge & easy to sharpen. You mentioned ease of sharpening not that important, well with 4-5 banquet sheets up on the weekend feel that ease of sharpening is as important as other properties of a blade. That's why like Carbon knives stupid easy to keep edges sharp.
> 
> Tanaka also has chisel carved Kanji, all my knives have that. It is kind of like Damascus does not make the knife cut better. It does usually mean that the knife is hand forged. The 210mm is 49mm at the heel not bad for a smaller knife, also like that the heel extends back some. The Ginsan is quality stain resistant steel. The powder steels I have used SRS15, R2, SKD have a little better edge retention and cost more than the Tanaka. The strength of the Tanaka is geometry it cuts as well or better than blades that cost much more. Most all knives food like potatoes stick to side of the blade it is not a deal breaker. Tanaka is decent, my Kochi has little better release. You should google Tanaka forging video's gives a little juice to getting a hand forged blade.
> 
> From AUS. there is some shipping cost. Jon's knives come with saya's and shipping is free.


Awesome thanks for the feedback! The shipping I didnt think about! That might be a deal breaker. If it was you would you pick the Tanaka, Gesshin for 125 or the Gesshin Uraku? And you say kochi? Do you have a link? I really want the Sakai Takayuki Ginsan Wa that salty dog has a video of but I definitely cant spend $400+ and even then I could maybe get something even better for that price. $160 is the most Im willing to spend for now


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## panda (May 17, 2018)

just get the misono now and then save up for what you really want.


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## daveb (May 17, 2018)

I would rather have the Gessin than the Misono. But unlike politics either is good choice.


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## Jville (May 17, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Awesome thanks for the feedback! The shipping I didnt think about! That might be a deal breaker. If it was you would you pick the Tanaka, Gesshin for 125 or the Gesshin Uraku? And you say kochi? Do you have a link? I really want the Sakai Takayuki Ginsan Wa that salty dog has a video of but I definitely cant spend $400+ and even then I could maybe get something even better for that price. $160 is the most Im willing to spend for now



You would get a real lesson in grinds with that knife. I have the non Damascus version and you r not ready for that knife :biggrin:


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## Keith Sinclair (May 17, 2018)

Think the 210 Tanaka Lite with shipping is around 160.00 maybe a little less. What's best hard to say if you are sharing it on the front line with others. A couple Do Do's can wreck havoc with a fine blade that does not belong to them. For toughness either the Uraku or Misono would be best. 

The Tanaka is a better knife, but the edge cannot hit hard objects like burner grates, skillets, plates, etc.

The Stainless clad Kochi is a JKI knife. 210mm around 260.00. Great blade, handle, knife worth every cent.


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## panda (May 17, 2018)

the tip smacking into steel prep table is the single biggest danger to fine japanese knives in pro kitchen. also co-workers carelessly knocking it on to the floor. them trying to use it on any surface besides a cutting board be it plate glass or table is not so bad, you can always resharpen. its the big damage that you gotta watch out for.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 17, 2018)

Hopefully the tip gets saved by the rubber mats. Yep Stainless steel table tops take a toll, in back of the house sheet & roasting pans.

I mentioned the Blue Moon right off because it is a workhorse blade. At the handle the spine is 4.5mm thick & that's on a 210mm! Does not thin out much on the spine until hits the tip grind. All that thickness goes into a rather tall grind that gets thinner at the edge. It has a attractive Nashji stainless clad finish, potatoes just fall off this blade no sticking. 

You mentioned concern about carbon core rust. The edge will patina quickly because your cutting all kinds of food. Don't fret about every little stain Geeez just cut with the darn knife no worry! Carbon works best when used a lot!! All you have to do is wash & dry completely at end of shift. The exact same knife is 35.00 more at CKTG under a different name, JCK is the best deal at 95.00. If the edge takes a hit easy to put a razor edge back on it. You do not have to baby this knife. Just keep it sharp. Only thing do not care for is the resin bolster expected at this price point, other than that no complaints.

It has chisel carved kanji, nice nashiji pear finish and a quality carbon core what more can you ask for?


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## Jville (May 17, 2018)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Hopefully the tip gets saved by the rubber mats. Yep Stainless steel table tops take a toll, in back of the house sheet & roasting pans.


I had a petty that was knocked off my board due to a false plate from above. Fortunately the rubber mat saved it. It came out unscathed.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

panda said:


> just get the misono now and then save up for what you really want.



Which one is the Misono!?!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

Jville said:


> You would get a real lesson in grinds with that knife. I have the non Damascus version and you r not ready for that knife :biggrin:



Haha youre talking about the Sakai Takayuki right?


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Think the 210 Tanaka Lite with shipping is around 160.00 maybe a little less. What's best hard to say if you are sharing it on the front line with others. A couple Do Do's can wreck havoc with a fine blade that does not belong to them. For toughness either the Uraku or Misono would be best.
> 
> The Tanaka is a better knife, but the edge cannot hit hard objects like burner grates, skillets, plates, etc.
> 
> The Stainless clad Kochi is a JKI knife. 210mm around 260.00. Great blade, handle, knife worth every cent.



Wait which one is the Misono!?! I dont remember this one! Is that the Gesshin $125 one? And yeah sadly thats what Im going to need though is a tougher blade, Id be Realll pissed when some dumb ass chips it or breaks the tip!


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## labor of love (May 18, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Which one is the Misono!?!



Hes referring to the moly. Do I need you to hold my beer again?


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Hopefully the tip gets saved by the rubber mats. Yep Stainless steel table tops take a toll, in back of the house sheet & roasting pans.
> 
> I mentioned the Blue Moon right off because it is a workhorse blade. At the handle the spine is 4.5mm thick & that's on a 210mm! Does not thin out much on the spine until hits the tip grind. All that thickness goes into a rather tall grind that gets thinner at the edge. It has a attractive Nashji stainless clad finish, potatoes just fall off this blade no sticking.
> 
> ...



Nice thanks for the reassurance on that!

And wait so which knife are you talking about exactly?! The blue moon? Do you have a link?


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Hes referring to the moly. Do I need you to hold my beer again?



To the moly at Japanese chef knives!?! Im so confused! The one that you suggested?


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

Ohhh the ******* western Swedish steel ****!? Nah bra no way Im not getting a Misono!


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## labor of love (May 18, 2018)

https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...0mm-to-gyuto360mm-8-sizes?variant=29221557571

Get it together noob &#128512;


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

daveb said:


> I would rather have the Gessin than the Misono. But unlike politics either is good choice.



Which Gesshin? The $125 one or the Uraku?


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

labor of love said:


> https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...0mm-to-gyuto360mm-8-sizes?variant=29221557571
> 
> Get it together noob &#128512;


Haha I know Im sorry bro beans! But yeah Im going to have to pass on that. Ive never liked Misonos, I actually have used one of those before the Swedish steel gyuto and I just didnt like it hahaha and I just looked at the prices of the Swedish carbon and the chef who had it was telling me how it was a $1000 knife that one of his old chefs gave him for free. This was well before I started getting into knives like a year or more before I got into them. I knew he was such a liar he lied about everything!


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## labor of love (May 18, 2018)

Stop asking questions. Just buy a tanaka. Gonbei and uraku is out of stock. Just buy a tanaka.


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## panda (May 18, 2018)

i give up trying to show de way to da queen, lost cause.


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## valgard (May 18, 2018)

Holy ****! a 100+ messages what knife should I buy thread? Dude! just buy a knife!


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## ThEoRy (May 18, 2018)

valgard said:


> Holy ****! a 100+ messages what knife should I buy thread? Dude! just buy a knife!



BUY A ******* KNIFE! lol

































































































No but seriously buy a ******* knife already.


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## McMan (May 18, 2018)

In 3, 2, 1..... Thanks for the advice but I changed my mind. Im saving up for a Kato.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 18, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Nice thanks for the reassurance on that!
> 
> And wait so which knife are you talking about exactly?! The blue moon? Do you have a link?



It's OK like to see what you end up with. I cannot post links on my better half's computer. I will give you 3 sites to look up the same knife under different names.

I'm on my second beer- 1) Japanesechefknives - Natures Blue Moon series 210mm 98.00 oval chestnut handle resin bolster the wood handle is not bad has a good feel, but like I said the bolster leaves a little to be desired. Cheap Japan shipping 7.00

2)Chef Knives To Go- Kohetsu Nashiji Blue #2 Gyuto 210mm 140.00. Exact same knife and handle 42.00 more. Rip off.

3)Blueway Japan (E-Bay) Japanese Sakai Ichimonji Kichikuni Blue steel wa gyuto Ichii. Think the price was 138.00 Same knife with a upgraded handle Ichii wood octagon with buffalo horn collar. Blueway site has best pictures by far has close ups of blade spine and choil grind shot. It looks pretty fat at the top of grind, but looks are deceiving this is a good cutter, push, slicing or chopping. Also he offers your name chisel engraved. Again cheap 7.00 Japan shipping. 40.00 more for a upgraded octagon handle is not bad. Both Japanese vendors are good JCK and Blueway Japan.


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## labor of love (May 18, 2018)

Seriously,
If you buy a shun after all of this Ill be pissed.


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## panda (May 18, 2018)

kamikoto


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## daveb (May 18, 2018)

I'm done until I've seen a bleeding digit.


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## daveb (May 18, 2018)

McMan said:


> In 3, 2, 1..... Thanks for the advice but I changed my mind. Im saving up for a Kato.



But, but, but, Which Kato?????????????


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## Nemo (May 18, 2018)

So, which knife did you buy? [emoji16]


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## Jville (May 18, 2018)

panda said:


> i give up trying to show de way to da queen, lost cause.



I think we should push him out of the rabbit hole. Then, naturally he will try to do the opposite, buy a knife to spite us, and push to get back in.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

McMan said:


> In 3, 2, 1..... Thanks for the advice but I changed my mind. Im saving up for a Kato.


Hahaha! 

All of you are cracking me up though!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

Keith Sinclair said:


> It's OK like to see what you end up with. I cannot post links on my better half's computer. I will give you 3 sites to look up the same knife under different names.
> 
> I'm on my second beer- 1) Japanesechefknives - Natures Blue Moon series 210mm 98.00 oval chestnut handle resin bolster the wood handle is not bad has a good feel, but like I said the bolster leaves a little to be desired. Cheap Japan shipping 7.00
> 
> ...


Thanks so much! Haha I think Ive now chosen the Natures Blue! If you were to pick would you pick the Natures Blue, Gesshin 125 or uraku, or the Tanaka? I think the natures blue is calling my name especially being only $100!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Seriously,
> If you buy a shun after all of this Ill be pissed.


Haha already bought the sign its on the way thanks for the help!

And kamakoto panda, theyre just so beautiful and stamped in China! You cant beat that!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

daveb said:


> But, but, but, Which Kato?????????????


Haha!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

Nemo said:


> So, which knife did you buy? [emoji16]



Nothing yet its going to be a couple months


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

Jville said:


> I think we should push him out of the rabbit hole. Then, naturally he will try to do the opposite, buy a knife to spite us, and push to get back in.


Hahaha this is true!


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## McMan (May 18, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Nothing yet its going to be a couple months



:bashhead:
:surrendar:
:butbutbut:
:beatinghead:
:censored:
:angry1:


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## panda (May 18, 2018)

get a global and a minosharp


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## Keith Sinclair (May 18, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Thanks so much! Haha I think Ive now chosen the Natures Blue! If you were to pick would you pick the Natures Blue, Gesshin 125 or uraku, or the Tanaka? I think the natures blue is calling my name especially being only $100!



Take it with a grain of salt I think the durability of the Natures Blue Moon is a plus in your case. The Blue #2 core steel gets very sharp with relative ease depending on your sharpening abilities. It is a good looking knife not your typical polished blade. All that is nice, but it performs well to, reason one of my favorite bang for the buck knives along with the Tanaka.

The Tanaka ginsan from James is a nice blade, it is pretty thin behind the edge where it counts, you should exercise diligent knife care to protect the edge. You should do that with any knife for that matter, some are more forgiving than others.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 18, 2018)

McMan said:


> :bashhead:
> :surrendar:
> :butbutbut:
> :beatinghead:
> ...



Hahaha! I said it earlier in this thread, I dont have the money right now to buy it haha!


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## daveb (May 18, 2018)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FEJ0WO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Nomsdotcom (May 19, 2018)

daveb said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FEJ0WO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


+1


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## TEWNCfarms (May 19, 2018)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Take it with a grain of salt I think the durability of the Natures Blue Moon is a plus in your case. The Blue #2 core steel gets very sharp with relative ease depending on your sharpening abilities. It is a good looking knife not your typical polished blade. All that is nice, but it performs well to, reason one of my favorite bang for the buck knives along with the Tanaka.
> 
> The Tanaka ginsan from James is a nice blade, it is pretty thin behind the edge where it counts, you should exercise diligent knife care to protect the edge. You should do that with any knife for that matter, some are more forgiving than others.



Good well then the natures blue it is because I definitely would be upset if someone messes up the Tanaka especially it being over $160 when you include shipping and a thinner edge. Thanks for your help for real I really appreciate it!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 19, 2018)

panda said:


> get a global and a minosharp



Good idea! Scratch the natures blue! Those metal handles are really something special !


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## TEWNCfarms (May 19, 2018)

daveb said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FEJ0WO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



We have a winner! And it kind of have a k tip too


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## K813zra (May 19, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> We have a winner! And it kind of have a k tip too



And you don't need anything more than your Amakusa to maintain it. (Not being a smart ass.) Mine loves soft stainless. Such as 420j at 52-54.


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## daddy yo yo (May 19, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> We have a winner! And it kind of have a k tip too



Bu it's not damascus! :viking:


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## Xenif (May 19, 2018)

daddy yo yo said:


> Bu it's not damascus! :viking:



Problem solved !

https://www.redbubble.com/people/impaler118/works/21936140-damascus-steel?p=sticker


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## TEWNCfarms (May 19, 2018)

K813zra said:


> And you don't need anything more than your Amakusa to maintain it. (Not being a smart ass.) Mine loves soft stainless. Such as 420j at 52-54.


You only use your Amakusa? No finishing stone? When I used it I had to use that cheap king 6000 to get it polish and smooth. It definitely would be sharp to slide through paper but it wasnt razor where it would just push through it without the final polishing.


daddy yo yo said:


> Bu it's not damascus! :viking:


Haha I know I know...! Buttt it does have that nashiji finish which is not like an average polished stainless blade. Which is another reason I love it


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## ThEoRy (May 19, 2018)

I'm bout to start a go fund me for this guy...


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## TEWNCfarms (May 19, 2018)

ThEoRy said:


> I'm bout to start a go fund me for this guy...


Haha please do! Thats a great idea!


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## K813zra (May 19, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> You only use your Amakusa? No finishing stone? When I used it I had to use that cheap king 6000 to get it polish and smooth. It definitely would be sharp to slide through paper but it wasnt razor where it would just push through it without the final polishing.
> 
> Haha I know I know...! Buttt it does have that nashiji finish which is not like an average polished stainless blade. Which is another reason I love it



I never polish cheap stainless. Not worth the time, to me. Even good stainless like G3 I don't take beyond 2k(ish).


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## TEWNCfarms (May 19, 2018)

K813zra said:


> I never polish cheap stainless. Not worth the time, to me. Even good stainless like G3 I don't take beyond 2k(ish).


I do it makes such a huge difference even if it is cheap.

Oh and everyone I bought a knife finally! $250 shun nakiri kaji Damascus, what do you think?!


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## daveb (May 19, 2018)

You missed Apr 1st by 6 weeks.


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## labor of love (May 19, 2018)

Perfect knife for you. 



TEWNCfarms said:


> I do it makes such a huge difference even if it is cheap.
> 
> Oh and everyone I bought a knife finally! $250 shun nakiri kaji Damascus, what do you think?!


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## ThEoRy (May 20, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> I do it makes such a huge difference even if it is cheap.
> 
> Oh and everyone I bought a knife finally! $250 shun nakiri kaji Damascus, what do you think?!



You're the worst.


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## daveb (May 20, 2018)

Hey Craig, 

Can we just hijack this thread and talk about wimins, whiskey or cigars? 

I like med smokes, 50ish ring size, 5 - 6 inches, esp those from the Dominican Republic. You? Anyone else? 

Happy to discuss Jesus's politics as well.:spin chair:


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## TEWNCfarms (May 20, 2018)

ThEoRy said:


> You're the worst.


Hahaha Im just kidding i didnt buy that! I just actually put an edge on it for a buddy at work tonight. Sharpening it really made me hate shun! And really appreciate the Gekko k tip everyone talks sh it about


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## TEWNCfarms (May 20, 2018)

daveb said:


> You missed Apr 1st by 6 weeks.


Haha I just got this!

And I love JESUS CHRIST Im a friend of his. I like American Spirit Black and Cuban Cohibas. Howling moon moonshine, and Blantons; I really want to get some Michters 25yr! And I love all women


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## ThEoRy (May 20, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Hahaha Im just kidding i didnt buy that!



I know. I was returning the sarcasm.


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## labor of love (May 20, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Haha I just got this!
> 
> And I love JESUS CHRIST Im a friend of his. I like American Spirit Black and Cuban Cohibas. Howling moon moonshine, and Blantons; I really want to get some Michters 25yr! And I love all women



All women? &#129300;


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## Consequence (May 20, 2018)

props to all of you for dealing with this dude. its probably 95 posts too many.


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## K813zra (May 20, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> I do it makes such a huge difference even if it is cheap.
> 
> Oh and everyone I bought a knife finally! $250 shun nakiri kaji Damascus, what do you think?!



I think, for me, the difference a polished edge makes is a loss of feedback in the cut and particularly in a steel that does not hold bite well off of the stone but to each their own. But I don't even like to take good carbon past about 3-5k.


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## panda (May 20, 2018)

this guy is related to farberware


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## TEWNCfarms (May 20, 2018)

K813zra said:


> I think, for me, the difference a polished edge makes is a loss of feedback in the cut and particularly in a steel that does not hold bite well off of the stone but to each their own. But I don't even like to take good carbon past about 3-5k.


Thats funny you say that because Love having a smooth polished edge, it just falls through stuff, I dont like the bite. Thats what makes the world go round


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## chinacats (May 20, 2018)

Okay, I made it through 8 pages...if I knew nothing going in I could tell you that 1)there is no best/perfect knife 2) all the recommendations are solid 3) the recs are good because these people have all tried a bunch of knives...4) $ do not equal performance
If you have any interest in this at all, you need to buy a knife, use it a while, sell it and buy something else...repeat until you can answer all your own questions.
Finally, were I in your shoes I'd either buy a Gesshin stainless or a Tanaka blue2 Damascus depending on how much I wanted to spend...completely different knives but both are solid deals and very good performers.
PS polished edges are good for very few things...to include straight razors and yanagibas.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 20, 2018)

chinacats said:


> Okay, I made it through 8 pages...if I knew nothing going in I could tell you that 1)there is no best/perfect knife 2) all the recommendations are solid 3) the recs are good because these people have all tried a bunch of knives...4) $ do not equal performance
> If you have any interest in this at all, you need to buy a knife, use it a while, sell it and buy something else...repeat until you can answer all your own questions.
> Finally, were I in your shoes I'd either buy a Gesshin stainless or a Tanaka blue2 Damascus depending on how much I wanted to spend...completely different knives but both are solid deals and very good performers.
> PS polished edges are good for very few things...to include straight razors and yanagibas.


Awesome I appreciate your input. I guess Ive turned the corner for having Damascus I would still like a Unique knife, but I will say I think Im more into performance now. Haha and again everyone says the polished edges dont matter and yeah I mean I guess you dont ever need any knife That sharp and some dont want knives really sharp, but I prefer the polished razor edge, I can control the knife just fine and have no problem with it slipping (thank YOU LORD, haha I know that as soon as I would have said that tomorrow at work it would slip on me!) and it just falls through food with no effort. No perhaps Im not getting to the exact polishing level you all are saying but I think so, even Theory said he didnt like going above 5k.

But anyways, I appreciate the recommendation brother! Im so torn! Im still searching around and looking but I definitely have learned a Ton and now know different Smith names that Im interested in like Tanaka and Takayuki. But I guess now my biggest question is...

If the knife is stainless clad with a carbon core, will the edge rust after a full day of use of cutting acidic items and onions and other such items? Or will it just stay clean? Or will it patina if I keep it wiped every few hours (some days especially during the summer and weekends im seriously Non stop cooking on the line from 8-4 hours, not including the two hours of set up before and two hours of prep after), but will it patina and prevent the rust? Because on those busy days I wont be able to maintain wiping the blade every 5-10min to prevent the rust starting.

Seriously I appreciate everyones help!!!

Oh yeah also I guess my now new favorite thing after this thread and another one where someone posted salty dogs video on The Grind, Now my new most important thing to me is A Good Grind! One that keeps things from sticking. Like the Takayuki Ginsan Wa saltydog has. Because man, my Gekko sticks like glue and the only thing getting it off is when it pushes up and hits my knuckle and then goes rolling off into something or the floor!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 20, 2018)

Actually just talked to JCK about the blue moon and they mentioned how sharpening will remove any beginning rust if it were to appear, which I completely forgot about! And I sharpen just about every other day because it gets used so much.


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## Jville (May 20, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Actually just talked to JCK about the blue moon and they mentioned how sharpening will remove any beginning rust if it were to appear, which I completely forgot about! And I sharpen just about every other day because it gets used so much.



You shouldn't have to sharpen any of these knives daily. Touchups yes, but not full sharpening. Also, I'm curious about the tip on the blue moon. I may have tried a knife that is supposedly similiar, I think, and the tip on that one was quite clumsy. Maybe someone can comment on it that has used that particular knive, because I have not. This takayuki ginsan may come back to haunt you. I think sometimes, when people first get started there is some knives available that later aren't, and we look back and think dang why didn't I buy that when I had a chance. But the takayuki ginsan, 240s, are quite heavy. I love mine, but I'm just saying.


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## chinacats (May 21, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Awesome I appreciate your input. I guess Ive turned the corner for having Damascus I would still like a Unique knife, but I will say I think Im more into performance now. Haha and again everyone says the polished edges dont matter and yeah I mean I guess you dont ever need any knife That sharp and some dont want knives really sharp, but I prefer the polished razor edge, I can control the knife just fine and have no problem with it slipping (thank YOU LORD, haha I know that as soon as I would have said that tomorrow at work it would slip on me!) and it just falls through food with no effort. No perhaps Im not getting to the exact polishing level you all are saying but I think so, even Theory said he didnt like going above 5k.
> 
> But anyways, I appreciate the recommendation brother! Im so torn! Im still searching around and looking but I definitely have learned a Ton and now know different Smith names that Im interested in like Tanaka and Takayuki. But I guess now my biggest question is...
> 
> ...




I think you maybe mistaking what we mean by slipping...if you try to cut a vine ripe tomato with a highly polished edge, it won't slide through the tomato, it will slip across the skin whereas a 2-5k edge will bite and actually cut vs sliding across. Polish is nice on a razor because you want it to slide across your skin vs cutting into it. I doubt you find many pros here who finish a gyuto above 6k and many like a finish closer to 2-3k. 

As to grind, you'll only know it when you try it...i prefer more release myself but that comes at the expense of 'sliding through product'...you'll have to find your own sweet spot for that...if you're all about release then perhaps you should look to a wide bevel knife.

As to cutting paper, you should be able to do that off your coarse stone (200 or whatever you use)...that's more about defining the edge rather than refining it...should make less noise as you go through your progression...but really no need to be cutting paper anyway...Google/learn the Murray Carter 3 finger test for knowing when your edge is right.

One final note as I remember you talking about k-tip gyuto...while looking cool, the net effect is usually shorter heel height and flatter profile...I personally dislike the short heel and the tips tend to be a bit more fragile which I don't see being a plus in a pro kitchen...there are some with higher heels but the ones I know of are all way above your budget.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 21, 2018)

Jville said:


> You shouldn't have to sharpen any of these knives daily. Touchups yes, but not full sharpening. Also, I'm curious about the tip on the blue moon. I may have tried a knife that is supposedly similiar, I think, and the tip on that one was quite clumsy. Maybe someone can comment on it that has used that particular knive, because I have not. This takayuki ginsan may come back to haunt you. I think sometimes, when people first get started there is some knives available that later aren't, and we look back and think dang why didn't I buy that when I had a chance. But the takayuki ginsan, 240s, are quite heavy. I love mine, but I'm just saying.



The tip on the Blue Moon is not bad at all. The grind to the edge starts at bottom of nashiji finish. There is no Nashiji at the tip so it has a relatively thinner grind. Not thin like a laser but very functional with good knife skills. Most knives food sticks to the side of the blade. The blue moon is better than most because it is thicker at top of blade with a nice semi rough Nashiji. 

Don't know what stones you have no need to take it above 2-3K. I take my carbon gyuto's to 4K on a very aggressive gesshin soaker it has a good cutting edge even at 4K but that's partly because of the stone. 

Don't know how to make this stick in your brain, mentioned it already in this thread. I'll put it this way used Japanese mono carbons at work for close to 25 years. Putting out banquets and even Gardemanger cutting plenty acidic foods. I never worried about rust, flex, acidic foods, food sticking to knife. Those carbon knives worked great even peeling cases of pineapples. Half the stuff people fret over in forums never even crossed my mind. CARBON KNIVES WORK BEST WHEN USED ALOT!!!!!!! They rust when not being used with poor storage.

Carbon core stainless clad only the edge will turn color. After even a couple days with your use it will start to form a nice patina. It is also good for sharpening beginners don't need a magic marker to see if have a nice even bevel heel to tip. Where the stone contacts the edge will be shiny cutting through the patina at the very edge.

The Blue Moon OOTB doesn't have a great edge, but you can make it razor sharp on a stone.


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## TEWNCfarms (May 22, 2018)

Jville said:


> You shouldn't have to sharpen any of these knives daily. Touchups yes, but not full sharpening. Also, I'm curious about the tip on the blue moon. I may have tried a knife that is supposedly similiar, I think, and the tip on that one was quite clumsy. Maybe someone can comment on it that has used that particular knive, because I have not. This takayuki ginsan may come back to haunt you. I think sometimes, when people first get started there is some knives available that later aren't, and we look back and think dang why didn't I buy that when I had a chance. But the takayuki ginsan, 240s, are quite heavy. I love mine, but I'm just saying.



Yeah Im really glad you said that I think that sold me I dont want to miss out on it!


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## TEWNCfarms (May 22, 2018)

Keith Sinclair said:


> The tip on the Blue Moon is not bad at all. The grind to the edge starts at bottom of nashiji finish. There is no Nashiji at the tip so it has a relatively thinner grind. Not thin like a laser but very functional with good knife skills. Most knives food sticks to the side of the blade. The blue moon is better than most because it is thicker at top of blade with a nice semi rough Nashiji.
> 
> Don't know what stones you have no need to take it above 2-3K. I take my carbon gyuto's to 4K on a very aggressive gesshin soaker it has a good cutting edge even at 4K but that's partly because of the stone.
> 
> ...



And thanks I remember it said earlier but just wanted to make sure thanks for reaffirming it!


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