# edge pro



## Vesteroid (Aug 8, 2014)

I just picked up a couple nicer carbon knives from a member here and have 3 stainless knives from JCK that I have had for a few years. 

I really want to improve (or learn for that matter) my sharpening skills.

I do see any reference to the edge pro or apex systems here. Are they taboo on higher end knives for some reason?


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## banjo1071 (Aug 8, 2014)

Hey there
There are four main reason why Edge pros get no love here:
1. They are considered unmanly (just like other girly stuff like hello kitty cups or automtic geared cars)
2. They have a flaw in the construction, that makes it very hard (or even impossible) to maintain a totally consistend angle over the entire lenght of the blade. Search the forum for details..
3. It just no fun using them. They lack the zen-component of sharping.
4. They are quite pricy. For the money you could get yourself a very dedent stone setup.

Apart from that i had one (before switching to jnats) and i must say its not that bad. It is very easy to produce a very sharp edge from day one on without any hassle. I gave mine to my brother (who does not care about knives as long as they cut well) and he is very happy with it..

Greets Benjamin


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## Foxy (Aug 8, 2014)

I've been using one for years. They're great. Shaving sharp on anything. I find they do take some getting properly good at but you can produce pretty sweet results very quickly. But I also have not gone all Jedi on the free hand sharpening to compare.

I only have 50/50 bevel knives too. If you have asymmetrical edges it may not be viable I hear.

I'm not sure that the issue with the slight angle change for the tip is really an issue and it can be managed if it is a problem to you. I'm pretty sure free hand sharpening isn't perfectly consistent either.


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## daveb (Aug 8, 2014)

The edge pro and the other one come up periodically here. I remember Pens Tiger giving a pretty reasonable explanation of pros and cons. 

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=site:kitchenknifeforums.com+edge+pro&safe=off


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## knyfeknerd (Aug 8, 2014)

IIRC, it's very difficult to thin a blade as well. 
Different strokes 4 different folks, but I say "go freehand". It's just the best.


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## vai777 (Aug 8, 2014)

banjo1071 said:


> Hey there
> There are four main reason why Edge pros get no love here:
> 1. They are considered unmanly (just like other girly stuff like hello kitty cups or automtic geared cars)
> 2. They have a flaw in the construction, that makes it very hard (or even impossible) to maintain a totally consistend angle over the entire lenght of the blade. Search the forum for details..
> ...



Hey I have a Hello Kitty cup in my automatic Chevy!!!!


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## vai777 (Aug 8, 2014)

You aren't going to be able to thin a blade with it, and if you have J knives you will need to raise and lower the bevel according to the side you are sharpening, as all J knives (at least most) are asymmetrical. So if you want a 30 degree inclusive angle on your gyuto (and lets say it is ground 70/30)and you are right handed you will need to have a 9-10 degree angle on the right hand side of the knife while having a 20-21 degree angle on the left. You would have to switch the angle every time you flip the knife. If you have the patience for it, you can get very nice even bevels and a wicked sharp blade... but you will still need stones/freehand technique for thinning.


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## banjo1071 (Aug 8, 2014)

vai777 said:


> Hey I have a Hello Kitty cup in my automatic Chevy!!!!



I guess that makes you a 8-year old girl then (no offensense, i am a father of two...)


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## Mrmnms (Aug 8, 2014)

We have hello kitty cups, towels , beanbags, storage containers, pillows. I have been known to drink a little scotch from a kitty cup late at night. 
Oh yeah, edge pro. Not well regarded by many here, but I still like using mine on occasion. It has drawbacks, particularly on certain knives, but for many, it's fine. Great for starting bevel angles even if you finish by hand. Best suited for 50/50 edges. Easy to repeat your angles. I used to keep a log book for every knife I did. I really like sharpening by hand, but I'm not giving up the Edgepro any time soon. Sharpening by hand can be much less expensive initially.


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 8, 2014)

I will not knock an edge-pro or wicked edge systems, at least you can get a sharp edge. That said I have several experiences over the years freehanding:

1.Esp. at work a stone is more portable
2.Freehand is just that allows for custom blended bevels, also knives like Deba need a custom heel bevel for chopping off fish heads the list goes on.
3.When you freehand your own knives, the blade gets trained to your sharpening style. This makes touch ups quick & easy to refresh your edge.
4.You can go with more pressure thinning an edge, to very lite tuning an already fairly sharp blade. Burr removal is one second on a stone once you master it. So it is a mixture of different pressures to none at all for a burr sweep. A jig cannot match the sensitivity of the human hand.


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## mkriggen (Aug 8, 2014)

This subject was covered extensively in another thread a couple of months ago... http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/18491-Edge-pro-and-Japanese-knives


Be well,
Mikey


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## Robert (Aug 8, 2014)

Thinning and convex making of a single bevel knife I do freehand , but the cutting edge I still do with the edge pro , It seems I can't get it as sharp freehand as with the edge pro .


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 8, 2014)

Mrmnms said:


> We have hello kitty cups, towels , beanbags, storage containers, pillows. I have been known to drink a little scotch from a kitty cup late at night.
> Oh yeah, edge pro. Not well regarded by many here, but I still like using mine on occasion. It has drawbacks, particularly on certain knives, but for many, it's fine. Great for starting bevel angles even if you finish by hand. Best suited for 50/50 edges. Easy to repeat your angles. I used to keep a log book for every knife I did. I really like sharpening by hand, but I'm not giving up the Edgepro any time soon. Sharpening by hand can be much less expensive initially.



Mrmnms I'll bet all those females have Daddy wrapped around their fingers:rolleyes2:


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## Vesteroid (Aug 9, 2014)

I appreciate all the feedback. I have watched all the videos for sharpening sb and db knives (well basically every video there) on JKI. I am totally hooked on learning to sharpen freehand.

I am wrestling with what selection of stones to start with, and whether or not to go on with the bridge and holder he has on his site. I would much rather buy 2-4 quality (read not 250 a piece, but not 30 a piece) stones now rather than get the cheaper ones and then upgrade in 3 months.

Any advice on sites and specific stones to make my best starting point? So far I have 3 stainless J knives and 2 carbon.

I am fairly confident I can pick this up, as have been a metal fabricator most of my life, and seem to be able to do hand eye type work. Also a geek engineer type, so all the technical details of sharpening make me giddy.

BTW, my other hobbies are wine collecting and, coffee roasting....most of these knives are not too expensive compared to a couple bottles of wine 

And I cant use these more than once


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## Mrmnms (Aug 9, 2014)

keithsaltydog said:


> Mrmnms I'll bet all those females have Daddy wrapped around their fingers:rolleyes2:



Wouldn't have it any other way.

Jon at JKI is great and has a good selection. I have purchased stones and knives from EE, a forum member and have been very happy with their service. I also have some stones from Korin. I have purchased stones from Dave Martell , maybe some folks heard of him too . All four forum members offer good products and good advice . Some even give members a discount .


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## rami_m (Aug 9, 2014)

Vesteroid said:


> BTW, my other hobbies are wine collecting and, coffee roasting....most of these knives are not too expensive compared to a couple bottles of wine



you will fit here just fine.


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## larrybard (Aug 9, 2014)

Vesteroid said:


> BTW, my other hobbies are wine collecting and, coffee roasting....most of these knives are not too expensive compared to a couple bottles of wine



Unless you've been consuming bottles of '92 Screaming Eagle Cabernet, '45 Mouton Rothschild or Chateau D'Yquem you may soon find that the price relationship between your knife purchases and a couple of bottles of wine changes dramatically.


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## rami_m (Aug 9, 2014)

larrybard said:


> Unless you've been consuming bottles of '92 Screaming Eagle Cabernet, '45 Mouton Rothschild or Chateau D'Yquem you may soon find that the price relationship between your knife purchases and a couple of bottles of wine changes dramatically.



wait until he slips into the rabbit hole first


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## Vesteroid (Aug 9, 2014)

Lol, ok you guys crack me up. I dont really drink Burgandy and BDX I collect american pinot and chard...so yeah a couple bottle of my wine equal a "decent" petty. But hey, a case equals a really nice knife !!!!!!

The damascus knives really do it for me, just wondering what their utility is.

Already purchased a few from members here....but going to go single bevel on my next three....really want to get into those and see what I can do with veggies and fish.

May have to drop a mailing list (wines) so the wife doesn't use my new toys against me.

BTW I already see a few members of my wine forum here  Now I know I am in trouble.


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## rami_m (Aug 9, 2014)

Um, really nice Damascus equals several thousand dollars. Look up shigefusa, Burke, Catchside, Devin Thomas, Kato and so many others I can't remember. I thought I don't need all of them a while ago. Now I am saving up to get all of them. Some have several tens of thousand dollar in knives. 

Hope your wife is understanding


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## mark76 (Aug 15, 2014)

knyfeknerd said:


> IIRC, it's very difficult to thin a blade as well.
> Different strokes 4 different folks, but I say "go freehand". It's just the best.



I'm interested in exactly this. I read that an Edge Pro can maintain angles very well. And that, with the right setup, it can also do very low angles. That should make it ideal for thinning.

Why is it not?


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## rami_m (Aug 15, 2014)

Amount of steel to be removed. You will wear out these small stones as well as the time it would take would make it impractical. At least that's my understanding.


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## doylestange (Aug 15, 2014)

rami_m said:


> Amount of steel to be removed. You will wear out these small stones as well as the time it would take would make it impractical. At least that's my understanding.



just use dmt stones then, then they'll never wear out.

edge pro clone for me has it's purpose, like many said it does precise angles and good to grind new angles with the angle cube, precisely. pair them up with dmt aligner stones and you have a good setup to 1000grit. 8k if you get the extra extra fine (tho i find that stone kinda sucks)


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## Ruso (Aug 15, 2014)

> just use dmt stones then, then they'll never wear out.


This is so not true. They do not dish, but they do wear out.


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## knyfeknerd (Aug 15, 2014)

The EP site says the pro model adjusts from 6 to 30 something degrees. If I'm REALLY doing some serious thinning, I'm going lower than 6.


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## gic (Aug 15, 2014)

One can easily buy good third party stones from a company like MoldShopTools and make blanks from cheap aluminum stock and that cuts the cost of basic stones for the edge pro to a fraction of what edge pro charges (and the stones can be more interesting from Moldshoptools). You can't get fancy waterstones cut to the edge pro size cheaply but so what? You can also mount dmt plates on double wide aluminum blanks you cut yourself with a hacksaw. While you can't really use an edge pro to maintain the geometry, still for a consistent angled edge on a double beveled knife an edge pro is much better than what anyone but a experienced freehander can do. The problem is for most people that is a pretty expensive gadget for only part of what stones will do with experience.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 15, 2014)

The primary issues I had with the EP is that you can't thin a knife properly and it leaves very sharp shoulders, even if you contentiously adjust the angle of the stone multiple times on one side. 

I consider myself an EP expert and have used the jig for at least five years until it all finally clicked and the things that Dave/jon and others here on the forum finally sunk in. If you don't remove some metal from behind the edge each time you sharpen, your going to get a very thick bevel. Even if it can split a hair, when you use it on food, the shoulders (bevel behind the edge) will cause resistance to the food being cut.


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## mouton29 (Aug 23, 2014)

Well, this thread has motivated me to try hand sharpening with waterstones and semi-retire my Edge Pro. It definitely lacks Zen and seems especially inappropriate for a Japanese knife -- I just bought two.


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## Benuser (Aug 23, 2014)

I have no experience with the EdgePRO but wonder how you may, when thinning, apply the necessary pressure on the part you want to thin. This besides the minimal angle question that has already been treated.


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## mark76 (Aug 24, 2014)

Mucho Bocho said:


> The primary issues I had with the EP is that you can't thin a knife properly



Why not? Because it can only go to 6 degrees or because of other reasons?


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## mkriggen (Aug 24, 2014)

mark76 said:


> Why not? Because it can only go to 6 degrees or because of other reasons?



Yes, you can't get a low enough angle without jumping through hoops and even then you can't blend the thinned portions of the blade into the rest of the blade face (distinct shoulders).

Be well,
mikey


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## daveb (Aug 24, 2014)

When I started I almost went with an Edge Pro. Idiot proof (for even this idiot) 400 bucks (ouch). Perfect edges every time. What could go wrong?

I got much of the same advice you're getting and decided to try free hand. I've scuffed and scratched through every knife I own. Have dropped close to a grand on rocks. Edges are not perfect. But I've learned much. Got some help on some I screwed up. The knives consistently are sharper when I'm done than they were when I started. And while I've not yet reached any kind of "zen" state, I enjoy it.


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## SolidSnake03 (Aug 28, 2014)

So overall do you think it was the better path? Because the things you have mentioned (stone cost, scuffing etc....) might have been lessened or not occurred with the Edge Pro? I'm just curious if you think it was the better route aside from the enjoyment aspect. If sharpening was just a task for the sole purpose of putting a good usable edge on your knives, would you still have gone free-hand knowing what you know now?

Not trying to be critical or anything of that matter, just wondering if it was worth it if you discount the enjoying it part?


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## mistascoopa (Aug 29, 2014)

SolidSnake03 said:


> So overall do you think it was the better path? Because the things you have mentioned (stone cost, scuffing etc....) might have been lessened or not occurred with the Edge Pro? I'm just curious if you think it was the better route aside from the enjoyment aspect. If sharpening was just a task for the sole purpose of putting a good usable edge on your knives, would you still have gone free-hand knowing what you know now?
> 
> Not trying to be critical or anything of that matter, just wondering if it was worth it if you discount the enjoying it part?



I purchased an edge pro around 8 months ago. Already free-handing long before, just wanted to diversify and try something new at the time. After sharpening a few knives the first week of ownership, I haven't had the urge to use it. I found myself concentrated on the T.V. rather than on the task at hand. It can get your knives sharp with little skills as the basic skill set needed is easy to grasp. As mentioned before, it's short-coming are hard to ignore: thinning, tip-adjusting, asymmetrical sharpening, speed, etc. 

A good sharpening set-up can be had at the same price as well.


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## daveb (Aug 29, 2014)

SolidSnake03 said:


> So overall do you think it was the better path? Because the things you have mentioned (stone cost, scuffing etc....) might have been lessened or not occurred with the Edge Pro? I'm just curious if you think it was the better route aside from the enjoyment aspect. If sharpening was just a task for the sole purpose of putting a good usable edge on your knives, would you still have gone free-hand knowing what you know now?
> 
> Not trying to be critical or anything of that matter, just wondering if it was worth it if you discount the enjoying it part?



Yes. 

The stone cost is because I got a little stupid, I could have stayed with a basic three stone set-up and been fine. Well maybe with 1 800 and just 1 nautural....

Scuffing is part of learning. There is a sentiment here to practice on cheap knives to learn so that one doesn't "ruin" good knives. I think one would have to do something very wrong for a very long time to ruin a knife. I've started digging that hole and when I realized I should stop digging I've sent knives to Jon, DaveM and Korin to "unruin" them. I would still send off good damascus for thinning but that's just knowing my limitations. 

And knowing how to sharpen has some value in and of itself. I take diamond plates to deer camp, s&g's to friends kitchens (if asked) or take friends knives home with me. And can leave them sharper than they were.


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## Zwiefel (Aug 29, 2014)

I've had to sharpen knives for students in my knife skills class on several occasions, b/c either they had to use the beaters in the kitchen or brought something that wasn't really functional. I've done it with a variety of tools from diamond steels, to v-sharpeners, to whet stones...based primarily on what I was handed to sharpen. it never fails to get peoples attention when you strop on brown paper bags or cardboard too! Opens up a good discussion about what's going on in these cases. 

I haven't tried the bottom of a coffee mug yet though!



daveb said:


> Yes.
> 
> The stone cost is because I got a little stupid, I could have stayed with a basic three stone set-up and been fine. Well maybe with 1 800 and just 1 nautural....
> 
> ...


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## gic (Aug 29, 2014)

> I haven't tried the bottom of a coffee mug yet though!



Unglazed ceramic like the bottom of your coffee cup isn't a bad way to sharpen a knife if you don't have anything else available


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