# higher grit finish question



## TamanegiKin (Jul 12, 2011)

Hey there everyone,
I'm curious to hear from y'all what benefits come from really high grit stones. Right now I stop at 5K. I hear about not refining the edge too much and leaving a toothy edge with bite to it.
So my question is, are there certain tasks that would benefit from a higher grit finish? 12000 and so on. 
Thanks.


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## JBroida (Jul 12, 2011)

even with higher grit stones, there are some that leave smoother edges and some that leave toothier edges

this goes for pretty much all knives

pick the stones to suit the tasks/edge feel you're looking for


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## Citizen Snips (Jul 12, 2011)

i agree with jon. 

smooth edges (that you will generally get from very high grits) are for shaving and toothier edges are for kitchen work. each knife and steel is going to react differently to different stones. you have to find what you like and what works best for your sharpening style and needs.

i usually recommend stopping in the 4k-6k range for double bevel knives. i prefer a toothy edge and do not like my edge slipping on food. it might not shave the arm hair as clean but it will be more useful to me on hour 8 of a 12 hour shift


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## TamanegiKin (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks for the insight.
I was just thinking about the gesshin 15000 and the takashima awasedo.
Looking to add another stone to try out.


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## JBroida (Jul 12, 2011)

TamanegiKin said:


> Thanks for the insight.
> I was just thinking about the gesshin 15000 and the takashima awasedo.
> Looking to add another stone to try out.


 
shoot me an e-mail or a pm if you want to talk to me about those... otherwise, its best if i let other people speak about these (there are quite a few people here who have used them)


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## TamanegiKin (Jul 12, 2011)

Jon,
I should mention that the edge I'm getting on the skd nakiri with the gesshin stones is my ideal edge. I'm getting a toothy edge with great cutting ability and it remains highly functional for very long.


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## TamanegiKin (Jul 12, 2011)

JBroida said:


> shoot me an e-mail or a pm if you want to talk to me about those... otherwise, its best if i let other people speak about these (there are quite a few people here who have used them)


 
Sounds good, thanks!


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## JBroida (Jul 12, 2011)

TamanegiKin said:


> Jon,
> I should mention that the edge I'm getting on the skd nakiri with the gesshin stones is my ideal edge. I'm getting a toothy edge with great cutting ability and it remains highly functional for very long.


 
if you're getting the edge you're looking for, i say dont mess with it


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## TamanegiKin (Jul 12, 2011)

JBroida said:


> if you're getting the edge you're looking for, i say dont mess with it


 
But that'd make me a rational person, LOL..


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## JBroida (Jul 12, 2011)

haha... guess so


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## jhmaass (Jul 12, 2011)

TamanegiKin said:


> Thanks for the insight.
> I was just thinking about the gesshin 15000 and the takashima awasedo.
> Looking to add another stone to try out.


 
The Gesshin 15,000 leaves the nicest feeling edge out of any stone I've used. I think it's a nice balance of tooth and smooth that just makes cutting quite nice, for me at least. I take all of my knives up to it (I love sharpening... sometimes I wish my knives would dull faster so I could justify doing it), and it's also the nicest feeling stone I have used. A little harder than a SS10k, and definitely a toothier edge.


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## slowtyper (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm thinking I'd like to try out another stone to see how it feels. I have bester 1200 and Arashiyama 6k. I've read the 6k actually acts like a higher stone like 8k, but I have no experience. If I get a 10k or 12k stone what can I expect? Also opinions on Naniwa ss10k, ss12k, sigma power 10k, imanishi 10k? Those are just what I see are available locally to me (well there is another store that has lots of stones but no online list so I may have to take a look one day). Also I don't mind buying online at all.


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## Eamon Burke (Jul 12, 2011)

Wait, you mean we don't all need a full-size Shapton Pro 30,000 for our chef's knives?

J/K. I agree, putting a kitchen knife on a stone beyond about 5k is just asking for trouble IMO. Not necessary and sometimes can screw things up.


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## jm2hill (Jul 12, 2011)

I agree with Eamon. I stop all my kitchen knives at 5k. I have taken it to 10K but find I get a bit more of a toothy edge with the 5 and it seems to cut food better.

All other knives I usually take up to 10K, usually just for a more polished finish. And as they're used to open boxes or for display, this works for me.

Now I also wouldn't be opposed to getting a higher grit stone to try, but its not on the list right now.


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## Chef Niloc (Jul 12, 2011)

Ok this kind of came up in another three but I did not go into depth B/C it would have been to far off topic there, this thread is more the place for such talk.
1st I would say most non knife nuts would like the way a very toothy edge cuts, I'd say a 220 grit edge. They just feel it's sharper do to how aggressive it cuts.

2nd for me I'm a big believer in sharpness + edge retention makes a great edge, nether is more important. The trouble with toothy edges it the little teeth bend and brake under normal kitchen use and a very fine edge bends and rolls over under that same stress, fine edge also is to smooth a cut for most kitchen use. Thing is there are a lot of different surfaces cut in a kitchen. Hard on the out side soft on the inside, soft and squishy, slick, rough and abrasive, soft outside hard inside, the list goes on and on. 

"What's sharp enough, that is the question" 
For me if the knife cuts basil that stays green for a day it's sharp enough. So what I try to do is get a knife that will
1) have a aggressive cutting feel to it
2) last for days ++ of hard use knocking on a cutting board.
3) keep shaved basil green all day

What I have come up with so far.
I polish a toothy edge. Rather then take a knife threw a long progression of stones refining the edge down to a micron.
Hers what I have tried out and had results I like.
King 800 followed by soft fast cutting J-nat ( around 6k grit) then strop on felt and diamond.
Bester 500 to a aoto to felt strop or bester 500 to a power leather strop. Side note I want to try Jon's Gesshin 400 Grit Stone here but he's always sold out of it :bat:
500 grit 3M silicon carbide belt then leather belt.
Naniwa 600 diamond stone then aoto then felt diamond or skip aoto and power belt it


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## Citizen Snips (Jul 12, 2011)

johndoughy said:


> Wait, you mean we don't all need a full-size Shapton Pro 30,000 for our chef's knives?
> 
> J/K. I agree, putting a kitchen knife on a stone beyond about 5k is just asking for trouble IMO. Not necessary and sometimes can screw things up.



this

@slowtyper- the arashiyama is a great stone to finish professional knives for those who are looking for a little more finish. i personally got the gesshin in order to go to a lower grit but i finish my deba on it. i wouldn't go much higher than that as it is about as far as you are gonna want to take any kitchen knife, especially professional


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## spaceconvoy (Jul 12, 2011)

Chef Niloc said:


> ...I polish a toothy edge...


 
Exactly - for me, I've been using an SS2k then going straight to 1 micron BC on horsebutt, but I've been itching to get the green brick aoto once it's back in stock.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 12, 2011)

Chef Niloc said:


> Ok this kind of came up in another three but I did not go into depth B/C it would have been to far off topic there, this thread is more the place for such talk.
> 1st I would say most non knife nuts would like the way a very toothy edge cuts, I'd say a 220 grit edge. They just feel it's sharper do to how aggressive it cuts.
> 
> 2nd for me I'm a big believer in sharpness + edge retention makes a great edge, nether is more important. The trouble with toothy edges it the little teeth bend and brake under normal kitchen use and a very fine edge bends and rolls over under that same stress, fine edge also is to smooth a cut for most kitchen use. Thing is there are a lot of different surfaces cut in a kitchen. Hard on the out side soft on the inside, soft and squishy, slick, rough and abrasive, soft outside hard inside, the list goes on and on.
> ...


 

I like the way you think. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## stevenStefano (Jul 12, 2011)

In my experience, a 5k-ish edge is toothy and will stay toothy for a while whereas a 10k edge will be very smooth but will not stay smooth for as long as the 5k stays toothy if you get me. I used to go to 10k but now I stop at 5k, it gives more functional cutting ability for what I do and it seems to stay useable for much longer than a 10k edge. That is just my experience, I don't do any super super fine cutting that would necessitate a 10k edge though it does look awesome


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## slowtyper (Jul 12, 2011)

Citizen Snips said:


> this
> 
> @slowtyper- the arashiyama is a great stone to finish professional knives for those who are looking for a little more finish. i personally got the gesshin in order to go to a lower grit but i finish my deba on it. i wouldn't go much higher than that as it is about as far as you are gonna want to take any kitchen knife, especially professional


 
Thanks! 

I guess I am just itchy to try new things!


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## 99Limited (Jul 12, 2011)

slowtyper said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I guess I am just itchy to try new things!



That's me, so I go on and buy the higher grit stones knowing full well that they aren't necessary. I get so much pleasure out of sharpening and ending up with a very nice polished edge that it's worth spending the money and time going this route. It's also a lot of fun testing my edges on the pages of the WSJ and seeing/hearing the improvements as I progress to the finer grit stones. Some say that this is a time waster and prematurely wears out the knife. Since I'm retired I've got all the time in the world until my personal clock stops. And as far as prematurely wearing out the knife, well I have 9 gyutos and will give each of them a three or four stone sharpening job maybe once every 30 days or so. At that rate they'll last me 10 or more years and that's without me buying any more knives, which is unlikely. 

I bought a 10k Chosera based on feedback I read from several years ago from Dave and another fellow, whom we do not speak, about how great that stone is. If the 10k stone was a great finishing stone in the past, it still is today and that's probably about as far as I'll go. Well maybe a Gesshin 15k could find a home here.


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