# What (or rather, where) is the point of a nakiri?



## ian (Jul 2, 2019)

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere. What's the benefit of the curved lack-of-tip that you see on a nakiri (or usuba)? I realize that it will be harder to damage, but I'm looking for something more performance based. Why would that shape be better than a slight upcurve to a rectangular tip, as on a cleaver? Tempted to buy one, but I keep thinking about putting vertical cuts in onions. (To nakiri users: how do you put vertical cuts in onions without going through the whole thing from front to back? Or am I overthinking this and the little part of the onion that the lack of tip won't contact is not a big deal.)

I realize there are nakiris that don't have this shape. Asking about the ones that do.


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## Noodle Soup (Jul 2, 2019)

Its the Japanese take on the traditional Chinese cleaver. You will find some variation of the theme in every Asian country that uses a wok or something like stir fry.


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## ian (Jul 2, 2019)

Noodle Soup said:


> Its the Japanese take on the traditional Chinese cleaver. You will find some variation of the theme in every Asian country that uses a wok or something like stir fry.



I get that, but I'm asking why the (non)-tip is shaped like it often is...


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## Mute-on (Jul 2, 2019)

Yes you are overthinking it (a bit). Nakiris are awesome. I love them. I have about seven. 

Vertical cuts in onions are almost no different with a Nakiri as they are generally very thin overall, and particularly at the tip. The lack of point actually gives you a very distinct marker to gauge how far into the onion you are going with vertical cuts. I actually find them more accurate / easier to control than Gyutos in that regard. 

I have no problems with the monster Toyama 210 Nakiri doing vertical cuts in onion, so most other Nakiris should be even better, unless they are particularly thick and/or have a blunt leading edge. 

As to curve, or lack of it, Nakiris are generally flatter and as a result excel at chopping, as opposed to slicing, for which more curve is more useful. A Nakiri will have a longer flat spot than a Gyuto of the same length. There is always some curve, even if it is shallow. Without it, the knife would become very clunky in use. 

Lastly, Nakiris are just plain fun to use. A bonus is that you are less likely to stab yourself with the tip, which some find less intimidating, and equally, it is harder to chip the tip (but not impossible if you are careless). 

Buy one. Buy many. Enjoy. 

J


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## Xenif (Jul 2, 2019)

I think I can answer this : 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Btto-UFh5dL/?igshid=tka3hi7tqddx

Thats with a Mazaki nakiri which has a more upswept tip than most nakiris I own. The more curved tip allows for pull or push cutting without killing tip and higher angle of of attack vs tipped knives.


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## stringer (Jul 2, 2019)

Nakiris can cut onions better than pretty much anything.


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## ojisan (Jul 2, 2019)

Nakiris almost have been wiped out in the Japanese market and only senior people buy them. Santokus and gyutos are more useful or versatile for most people.

But I still love my nakiris. They are simple and fun to use.


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## Paraffin (Jul 2, 2019)

I use my nakiri more than any other knife. From my perspective, the shape has these advantages:

The curved part of the blade, the transition from the bottom to the front is sharpened just like the bottom edge. The bottom edge gets more abuse with chopping, but that spares the front curve. The front curve remains super sharp for precision draw slicing, vertical cuts on an onion, etc. In other words, chopping doesn't affect the more precise use of the knife, the way it might (depending on your technique) with a gyuto/Western chef knife.

The 90 degree flat part of the front is perfect for turning the knife more vertical and moving product around the board, like a scraper when organizing piles of garlic or ginger for chopping. It's faster and less messy than flipping the knife over to use the spine when you want to scrape and move product around without risk of damaging the sharpened edge.

A nakiri has a lot more vertical surface area than a gyuto or Western chef knife, so when slicing or chopping food, it doesn't climb up over the top of the blade as much. That flat area is also useful for transferring cut product to a bowl, again as a scraper, using a very low angle to avoid damaging the blade edge. I can move a larger pile of sliced or chopped food around with a 165mm nakiri than I can with anything except a much longer gyuto.

Due to the blade height, the blade weight of a nakiri is higher than a gyuto shape of equivalent length. This means that for free-hand, off-board vertical chopping, I can get a nice controlled rhythm with some power (weight) behind it. 

Finally, it's really easy to sharpen compared to some other shapes.


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## panda (Jul 2, 2019)

it's a one trick pony designed specifically to chop stuff.


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## Paraffin (Jul 2, 2019)

panda said:


> it's a one trick pony designed specifically to chop stuff.



No! It's great for push-cuts on firmer veg using more of the blade edge, or for very fine, precision draw-slicing using the 90 degree curve at the tip. I use it all the time for draw-slicing super narrow ribbons of green onions or fresh chilis for garnish. It's good for chopping but that's not all it can do.


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## stringer (Jul 2, 2019)

I have no use for a nakiri in my current gig. But they are really fun for project knives and available cheap for new or vintage. I like to fix old ones up and gift them to my vegan friends.


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## Hbeernink (Jul 3, 2019)

I don’t use and have no use for one


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## Matus (Jul 3, 2019)

For me, too, nakiri is a fun knife. I currently have 180 AS Moritaka which has a pretty pointy tip. Some nakiris I tried had the tip rounded a bit too much for my taste (Masakage Koishi), but the pointy tip of Moritaka also has some disadvantages - chopping close the a tip may result in digging the tip in the cutting board. I may round the tip gently over time.


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## Qapla' (Jul 3, 2019)

I'm not so certain all nakiri's have the same point or front-area design. On Rakuten I remember seeing some bunka-point ones (labeled as "imo-kiri", presumably meaning "potato-cutter") and upswept-spine ones (labeled as "naginata-gata", presumably meaning "halberd-shaped") as well.


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## ian (Jul 3, 2019)

Thanks all! In terms of the actual question posed in the OP, it seems the consensus is that a rounded tip allows for:

1) less worry about tip damage during chopping
2) greater variation in angle of attack during draw tip-slicing, and perhaps less worry about the part of the knife used for draw slicing contacting the board during chopping, which increases edge retention there.

And maybe I am indeed overthinking when it comes to the cons of such a tip, e.g. with vertical cuts in onions. (Although, is there really such a thing as overthinking knives on KKF?) I liked the videos @Xenif and @stringer included. However, I guess I was mostly talking about minimizing the small amount of onion left after the main chop, that has to be dealt with separately, and which invariably is of a slightly different shape. Still seems like a pointy tip would help with that. However, I think I should chill the **** out about that millimeter of onion, and just try one at some point.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 3, 2019)

Besides all the points already made for nakiris, i feel it's better balanced to chop and the flatter profile adds another point, again while chopping. Most nakiris i've tried also do vertical cuts very well, which makes them perfect for dicing (vertical cuts plus chopping).


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## osakajoe (Jul 3, 2019)

Nakiris are leafy green vegetable knives. Old school ones had a curve but nowadays most are flat with a slight round at the tip designed for Push/pull flat cutting on vegetables (mostly leafy greens). 

Vertical straight down cuts defeat the purpose of a sharp knife. You sharpen a knife to create serrations on the edge. These work like a saw if moved forward or backward they cut. A sharp knife is a serrated knife, you just can’t see them with the naked eye when dealing with proper steel and quality sharpening. When combined with a thin grind and edge they perform well. 

True vertical cuts are actually push flat cuts to allow the edge to do the job. If just pushing straight down go buy a thin sheet metal and force it through 

When cutting leafy greens with a curved blade and a flat push style of cutting the last few centimeters are not cut on large leafs. Hence why a more flat blade profile is desired for this style of cutting. 

This is corrected with a curved blade such as a santoku or gyuto by “nose diving” into the item then flattening or “landing” your heel out on the push cut or the opposite by heel dragging and lifting it up to drag the tip to the board. 

So as others said it’s mostly a one trick pony for push/pull flat cutting of mostly leafy green vegetables or Push flat cutting of hard vegetables. Yes you need a little force and push to get through carrots onions and such. 

If you want a multipurpose knife, don’t buy a Nakiri. 

Only buy one if you like the style of cutting and will actually use it.


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## panda (Jul 3, 2019)

joe i dont think most in here actually care about technique, theyre just in it for the nerdom. ie sports cars with automatic transmissions.


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## WPerry (Jul 3, 2019)

n00b question - so a santoku (or bunka?) would be similar but would give up a bit in terms of chopping while gaining slightly in versatility with the slight belly and more pronounced tip?


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## ian (Jul 3, 2019)

osakajoe said:


> Nakiris are leafy green vegetable knives. Old school ones had a curve but nowadays most are flat with a slight round at the tip designed for Push/pull flat cutting on vegetables (mostly leafy greens).
> 
> Vertical straight down cuts defeat the purpose of a sharp knife. You sharpen a knife to create serrations on the edge. These work like a saw if moved forward or backward they cut. A sharp knife is a serrated knife, you just can’t see them with the naked eye when dealing with proper steel and quality sharpening. When combined with a thin grind and edge they perform well.
> 
> ...



Interesting post. Didn’t know they were only for leafy green vegetables originally. Most of this makes sense, but do you have an opinion on how the OP question about the “tip” shape fits in to this discussion? Is post #15 accurate? I don’t see that addressed directly here.

I might push back on your “never cut straight down” assertions, though. I think that what makes a knife feel sharp is a combination of an acute, fairly regular apex, plus the serrations you mention. Sometimes it’s much easier/faster to chop more or less straight down, although I think there’s always a small bit of a push/pull. Anyway, it’s all a spectrum, right? For instance, when doing vertical onion cuts, I try to minimize the pull in order to make sure to cut the bottom layer as much as I do the top layer, but there’s a bit of pull...



panda said:


> joe i dont think most in here actually care about technique, theyre just in it for the nerdom. ie sports cars with automatic transmissions.



The unexpected longevity of that thread about horizontal cuts in onions might indicate that enough people do care, though, if not most.


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## SeattleBen (Jul 3, 2019)

I've also heard people using them as a test to see if they like a smith since they're usually some measure less expensive than a gyuto.


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## Hoonis (Jul 3, 2019)

ojisan said:


> Nakiris almost have been wiped out in the Japanese market and only senior people buy them. Santokus and gyutos are more useful or versatile for most people.
> 
> But I still love my nakiris. They are simple and fun to use.


I agree with this. A gyuto will slay an onion just as much as a nakiri will. And a gyuto has more versatility


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## Forty Ounce (Jul 3, 2019)

ian said:


> Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere. What's the benefit of the curved lack-of-tip that you see on a nakiri (or usuba)? I realize that it will be harder to damage, but I'm looking for something more performance based. Why would that shape be better than a slight upcurve to a rectangular tip, as on a cleaver? Tempted to buy one, but I keep thinking about putting vertical cuts in onions. (To nakiri users: how do you put vertical cuts in onions without going through the whole thing from front to back? Or am I overthinking this and the little part of the onion that the lack of tip won't contact is not a big deal.)
> 
> I realize there are nakiris that don't have this shape. Asking about the ones that do.


You trying to start a war?


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## Forty Ounce (Jul 3, 2019)

Since I'm here now.. nakiris are pointless, literally. Gyuto can do everything a nakiri can do, plus more.. so why a nakiri? If you want a knife that's modeled after a cleaver, just get a cleaver.......


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## ian (Jul 3, 2019)

Forty Ounce said:


> You trying to start a war?



I thought I was just asking why certain nakiris have very rounded tips, but that seems to be like .002% of the thread.  It’s probably my fault for making the title of the thread sort of combatitive. I just really liked the point/point pun.


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## Forty Ounce (Jul 3, 2019)

ian said:


> I thought I was just asking why certain nakiris have very rounded tips, but that seems to be like .002% of the thread.  It’s probably my fault for making the title of the thread sort of combatitive. I just really liked the point/point pun.


It's cool.. saw this go up yesterday.. been waiting patiently for the drama to ensure


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 3, 2019)

The nakiri's smallish size and flatter profile combo (when comparing it to a gyuto) makes it easier (at least for me) to chop and dice. The taller nakiri also offer more support to my fingers on its sides, specially near the tip. This way i can lift the nakiri a bit higher and that is nice for dicing with the tip for taller product like big carrots and onions. Also i feel the nakiri's balance is better, in general, for chopping.

I remember when i got a Kato workhorse kasumi 240mm gyuto. I found it a bit clunky and the taper wasn't near as nice as Kato 180mm kurouchi nakiri. Sold the gyuto and kept the nakiri in that situation.


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## Forty Ounce (Jul 3, 2019)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> The nakiri's smallish size and flatter profile combo (when comparing it to a gyuto) makes it easier (at least for me) to chop and dice. The taller nakiri also offer more support to my fingers on its sides, specially near the tip. This way i can lift the nakiri a bit higher and that is nice for dicing with the tip for taller product like big carrots and onions. Also i feel the balance is better for chopping.
> 
> I remember when i got a Kato workhorse kasumi 240mm gyuto. I found it a bit clunky and the taper wasn't near as nice as Kato 180mm kurouchi. Sold the gyuto and kept the nakiri in that situation.


Or.. you could buy a gyuto with the profile that you like, and call it a day


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## slickmamba (Jul 3, 2019)

ojisan said:


> Nakiris almost have been wiped out in the Japanese market and only senior people buy them. Santokus and gyutos are more useful or versatile for most people.
> 
> But I still love my nakiris. They are simple and fun to use.


Says the oji-san.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 3, 2019)

Forty Ounce said:


> Or.. you could buy a gyuto with the profile that you like, and call it a day



I love gyutos, but there's a trade-off here. If you get a gyuto with as much flat area and as tall as a nakiri, it will probably be bigger. There will be a shift in balance and/or in weight. You could grind a gyuto thinner with more taper than a nakiri in order to get that balance/weight back, but then you would be comparing a gyuto to a nakiri with very different grinds and tapers, which will then affect how it cuts hard product once more.

Anyway, that's just my reasoning and limited experience with nakiris and gyutos talking. I agree that if it doesn't work for you while using it, it doesn't make sense to have one. It works for me, but ymmv.


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## Xenif (Jul 3, 2019)

Forty Ounce said:


> Since I'm here now.. nakiris are pointless, literally. Gyuto can do everything a nakiri can do, plus more.. so why a nakiri? If you want a knife that's modeled after a cleaver, just get a cleaver.......


Although I can agree that gyuto are more versatile than nakiri, I disagree that cleaver and nakiri are one of the same. Cleavers generally have a diffrent profile vs nakiri.


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## refcast (Jul 3, 2019)

I think that the nakiri is useful for when you want to bash a knife and not want to break off the tip or gouge the board. Especially for deep plunge cuts. You can have a thin edge there while still having support. The curved tip of the nakiri lets you do a rocking motion at the tip, but with a higher angle that with almost every other knife. Though the length of the rocking part is pretty small.


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## refcast (Jul 3, 2019)

(double posted)


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## stringer (Jul 3, 2019)

I confess. I own a nakiri (and two santokus). Sometimes I tell people they belong to my wife, but they are mine. She only uses gyutos. If I need a point when I'm using a nakiri or santoku then I flip it around, blade toward me, handle out. Grip the spine and use the heel. It's very pointy. I frankly very rarely use the point of my "all purpose" knives for anything so I'm not sure why this is always everyone's go-to argument. I can't remember the last time I cored a tomato or removed silverskin with a gyuto. If I need something pointy then I grab my Ginga petty or an ice pick. 

And refcast brings up a good point. I'll take it three steps further. I actually round the tips of all my Chinese cleavers and santokus so they are upswept like a rounded nakiri. It makes it easier to rock chop with them. Yeah, I said it. I rocked and walked for too many years before I learned about push, draw, guillotine and glide. So I'll rock with about anything. If it screws up my edge then I sharpen the knife. The upswept tip keeps me from gouging the board or breaking the tip off as often. The best thing about nakiris though: My current nakiri is iron clad white #2 and I paid $36 for it.


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## Elliot (Jul 3, 2019)

Well, if I missed someone making this point already, I apologize. 

But -- the point? Let's be honest now all, how many of us have less than five knives? Even that is more than one "needs," but for the sake of being easy, I will stretch it to five. 

Since the answer to that question is surely zero, we can, at some level, disregard things being "necessary." As such, I say everyone should have a Nakiri. They're just a whole lot of freaking fun.


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## Michi (Jul 3, 2019)

I have a Takeshi Saji rainbow Nakiri, 165 mm:



The tip is sharpened around the curve for a few millimetre, so the whole front corner is sharp.

I find that it is actually easier to use for chopping onions than a Gyuto. There is no problem when making the vertical cuts. I can control very easily how far the cuts go towards the root. Because the blade is tall, when lifting it out of a vertical slit to make the next one, nothing catches, and there is much less of a tendency to lift up the adjacent top one or two layers of onion. (With a Gyuto, I have to pull the blade out more towards the rear rather than straight up, otherwise layers of onion catch on the spine of the blade above the tip.)

So, no problem when chopping onions. I did 3 kg recently, and they were done in a flash.

In general, I find a Nakiri fun to use and a bit more effective than Gyuto if I need lots of small dice or julienne. Having said that, a Nakiri is definitely optional. A Gyuto is a true all-rounder, whereas Nakiri is not: the Nakiri is hopeless at slicing and fine tip work (although, surprisingly, the Nakiri rocks quite well, more so than one would guess from looking at it).

I you plan on buying only one knife, the vote goes to the Gyuto, without question.


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## osakajoe (Jul 3, 2019)

panda said:


> joe i dont think most in here actually care about technique, theyre just in it for the nerdom. ie sports cars with automatic transmissions.



Yeah I know. Most my posts are when I’m 6 or 8 drinks deep and don’t care much either 

I saw a question about vertical cuts and serrations. So here an easy test. 

Take a sharp knife carefully rest the edge on your open palm and press down with a little firm pressure. Didn’t cut or break the skin right? Now do it again but now with light pressure and with a slight movement forward. 

Well actually don’t do that. Pull out a tomato you fool and do the same test. A sharp knife will do the work as long as there is a movement forward or backward to allow the micro serrations to cut.


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## tgfencer (Jul 3, 2019)

Another in a large percentage of threads that devolves into a revolving door of mini knife-related existential crises. Usually makes for an entertaining read. If anybody follows Joe's advice and test cuts their hand, I applaud you.

As for the topic at hand. I own a few nakiri. I like them. I own plenty gyutos. I like them too. Have many more knives. I like them as well. Cutting things is fun. Don't much care why.


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## ian (Jul 3, 2019)

... don’t think anyone’s arguing here that microserrations aren’t important to perceived sharpness, nor is anyone going to argue that having a refined acute apex doesn’t help. Anyway, I’m taking my vertically sliced onions to bed. We will both dream of this thread ‘till the morn.


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## KenHash (Jul 3, 2019)

ian said:


> I get that, but I'm asking why the (non)-tip is shaped like it often is...



Rather than looking at it from a knife perspective, I think a possible answer lies in culture and history. I believe the Nakiri/Usuba may be the oldest Japanese cooking knife. used by commoners and peasants. I also think that it has cultural origins in the Cai Dao of China during the Tang Dynasty when there is something of a similarity in blade shape. Closer than today's version. I suspect that peasants were permitted to have cooking knives that had no point, lessening their effectiveness as a weapon.

There is a theory that Chopsticks developed in China by Rulers as a means of keeping untrustworthy Generals sitting at the table from using knife points to eat. A practice which I believe also existed in the West until the advent of the fork.


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## Paraffin (Jul 3, 2019)

Forty Ounce said:


> Since I'm here now.. nakiris are pointless, literally. Gyuto can do everything a nakiri can do, plus more.. so why a nakiri? If you want a knife that's modeled after a cleaver, just get a cleaver.......



A nakiri isn't a Chinese cleaver. It works differently and feels different in the hand.

I have a couple of Chinese cleavers I use for double-hand chopping of pork and fish for mincing. If I liked what a Chinese cleaver did better than the nakiri on vegetables, I'd use it. Everyone has a different opinion on this though, and I know there are fans here of the big Chinese (thin) cleavers.

For me, one big difference is the Chinese cleaver's sharp 90 degree angle at the tip vs. the nakiri's curved 90 degree angle at the tip (getting back to the OP's main question). The sharp angle of a cleaver tip digs into the board more when draw-slicing. The front curve of a nakiri glides more smoothly on the board without digging in, when doing precision draw cuts.

The smaller size and proportionally more weight in a nakiri also moves more quickly in my hand than a big Chinese cleaver. It's more nimble for freehand (off the board) fast chopping. I do a lot of that for garlic and ginger. I can flick my ring finger underneath the handle with a pinch grip for a pivot, to get a nakiri moving very quickly when freehand chopping. Can't do that with a big cleaver. Can't do that with a gyuto either, because the weight distribution and balance is different.

To be clear, I'm not dissing Chinese cleavers for those who can make use of them. I've seen experts doing amazing things, like videos of expert Chinese chefs cutting tofu "threads," for example. But for the mix of Western and Asian meals I make at home, a nakiri is a better vegetable weapon for the way I cook. That said, Chinese cleavers can be had for so little money that everyone should try one. See for yourself if it fits your style.


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## Hoonis (Jul 3, 2019)

Elliot said:


> Well, if I missed someone making this point already, I apologize.
> 
> But -- the point? Let's be honest now all, how many of us have less than five knives? Even that is more than one "needs," but for the sake of being easy, I will stretch it to five.
> 
> Since the answer to that question is surely zero, we can, at some level, disregard things being "necessary." As such, I say everyone should have a Nakiri. They're just a whole lot of freaking fun.


So you're saying I have to spend more bux Elliot? Damn it.


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## ian (Jul 3, 2019)

KenHash said:


> Rather than looking at it from a knife perspective, I think a possible answer lies in culture and history. I believe the Nakiri/Usuba may be the oldest Japanese cooking knife. used by commoners and peasants. I also think that it has cultural origins in the Cai Dao of China during the Tang Dynasty when there is something of a similarity in blade shape. Closer than today's version. I suspect that peasants were permitted to have cooking knives that had no point, lessening their effectiveness as a weapon.
> 
> There is a theory that Chopsticks developed in China by Rulers as a means of keeping untrustworthy Generals sitting at the table from using knife points to eat. A practice which I believe also existed in the West until the advent of the fork.



Now that is an interesting theory.


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## ojisan (Jul 3, 2019)

ian said:


> Didn’t know they were only for leafy green vegetables originally.



I don’t think this is true. It was/is just a vegetable knife, as its name shows (na-kiri, means vegetable-cutting). I think Joe just meant the current flat profile is good especially for leafy greens.

Some research say Nakiri style knives were found in pictures in the Muromachi era in 14th century (before that, knives looked like small samurai swards were used at kitchens. I don’t know if there were influence from Chinese cleaver), and the current profile was established in the Edo era around 1800 through 1860. At that moment, I don’t think we had much leafy vegetables in Japan (popular leafy vegetables today in Japan like cabbage, napa cabbage and spinach became popular after the Edo era). The star vegetable at the time was daikon radish, so it’s hard for me to think Nakiris were made for leafy vegetables.

You can see some photos of old kitchen knives: http://www.kiya-hamono.co.jp/hamono/wa_rekishi.html

Gyutos were developed around the very end of the Edo era through the Meiji era as Japan started trade with other countries and consuming meat/beaf/pork. Then the santoku was invented as a mixture of gyutos and nakiris (and potentially debas) after WW2 as consuming meat at home got more popular. So the santoku makes much more sense at home kitchens as a general purpose knife. I might choose a santoku if my wife brought KonMari to my home.

There are two types of Nakiris by the way, the western style and the eastern style. The western style has a flatter blade, while the eastern profile has a more curved blade. As Joe said, somehow the eastern style is very rare these days. My random guess is that’s because the western style looks smarter and we use plastic cutting boards nowadays that won’t warp.

I like the direct feedback from my 165mm light nakiri. It's a different feeling from what I get from my 27cm heavy gyuto cutting with its weight.


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## Hoonis (Jul 3, 2019)

ojisan said:


> I don’t think this is true. It was/is just a vegetable knife, as its name shows (na-kiri, means vegetable-cutting). I think Joe just meant the current flat profile is good especially for leafy greens.
> 
> Some research say Nakiri style knives were found in pictures in the Muromachi era in 14th century (before that, knives looked like small samurai swards were used at kitchens. I don’t know if there were influence from Chinese cleaver), and the current profile was established in the Edo era around 1800 through 1860. At that moment, I don’t think we had much leafy vegetables in Japan (popular leafy vegetables today in Japan like cabbage, napa cabbage and spinach became popular after the Edo era). The star vegetable at the time was daikon radish, so it’s hard for me to think Nakiris were made for leafy vegetables.
> 
> ...


Someone please send me a nakiri so I can decipher if it's a functional tool or not


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## Marek07 (Jul 3, 2019)

tgfencer said:


> ... If anybody follows Joe's advice and test cuts their hand, I applaud you.


But what is the sound of one hand clapping? 



tgfencer said:


> As for the topic at hand. I own a few nakiri. I like them. I own plenty gyutos. I like them too. Have many more knives. I like them as well. Cutting things is fun. Don't much care why.


Very well reasoned! Worthy of applause. (avoid clapping if still healing)


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## Forty Ounce (Jul 4, 2019)

Paraffin said:


> A nakiri isn't a Chinese cleaver. It works differently and feels different in the hand.
> 
> I have a couple of Chinese cleavers I use for double-hand chopping of pork and fish for mincing. If I liked what a Chinese cleaver did better than the nakiri on vegetables, I'd use it. Everyone has a different opinion on this though, and I know there are fans here of the big Chinese (thin) cleavers.
> 
> ...


Fair. I like your argument.


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## rickbern (Jul 4, 2019)

Ian, I thought this image might be helpful for this discussion. Maybe not, we'll see.

I compared the profile of both my wakui 240 and kochi 240 gyuto to my itonimmin 180 nakiri.

As you can see, the wakui is, indeed, pretty much a nakiri with a tip and a little less height, while the kochi (image on the right) has a considerably different profile. I didn't shoot my ginga, but it's even more "different" from the nakiri than the kochi is.

I've never really been attracted to a 180 nakiri as an all purpose knife, mine makes it's living on all kinds of cabbage and chiffonading collard greens for caldo verde. (it may come as no surprise that I made cole slaw for dinner last night).

I used to have a little 165 mac nakiri that I thought was a much more generally useful knife, but not actually so great at cabbage and greens in general.

I decided on the itonimmin rather than a watanabe because it was half the price and I didn't think a nakiri was going to be useful enough to justify spending twice as much on one. I was right, but, who knows, self fulfilling prophecy?


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## gstriftos (Jul 4, 2019)

So the conclusion is that a nakiri is a *pointless *buy for knife?


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## osakajoe (Jul 4, 2019)

gstriftos said:


> So the conclusion is that a nakiri is a *pointless *buy for knife?



Nope. Depends on how you prefer your knife profile, how you use it, and what you intend to cut. I like to think of it as a secondary knife to support your main multipurpose knife. Unless your a vegan and mainly do salads, then it’s the opposite.

End thread.


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## gstriftos (Jul 4, 2019)

@osakajoe yes I see what you mean, I am too intrigued to buy one as I cannot easily find an affordable tallish gyoto with a large flat to enjoy my beloved chopping.
A CCK might be a good altenative but since I am not a pro and don't need to prepare massive amounts the CCK weight and volume is useless to me.
Or maybe get a hakata. [email protected] looking knife, large flat, not so tall on the other hand.

(I waited patiently until someone made the ''pointless'' joke. Did not see anyone taking the liberty to so I did . )


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## ian (Jul 4, 2019)

gstriftos said:


> @osakajoe
> (I waited patiently until someone made the ''pointless'' joke. Did not see anyone taking the liberty to so I did . )



To be fair, it's basically in the title of the thread...


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## ian (Jul 4, 2019)

rickbern said:


> Ian, I thought this image might be helpful for this discussion. Maybe not, we'll see.
> 
> I compared the profile of both my wakui 240 and kochi 240 gyuto to my itonimmin 180 nakiri.
> 
> ...



That's cool to see the profiles superimposed. Thanks for the pics.


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## parbaked (Jul 4, 2019)

This Nakiri talk makes me miss @TheCaptain....


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## Xenif (Jul 4, 2019)

I [emoji173]️ Nakiri
Even when shes holding a gyuto


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## ian (Jul 4, 2019)

Xenif said:


> I [emoji173]️ Nakiri
> Even when shes holding a gyutoView attachment 56214
> View attachment 56215



Looks more like a deba, no? She’s also wearing my fish-breakdown face.


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## Xenif (Jul 4, 2019)

ian said:


> Looks more like a deba, no? She’s also wearing my fish-breakdown face.


Hmm considering the length of the handle and that it is burnt chestnut, the blade must be quite heavy, so yes I stand corrected.


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## ian (Jul 4, 2019)

Xenif said:


> Hmm considering the length of the handle and that it is burnt chestnut, the blade must be quite heavy, so yes I stand corrected.



Love your collection, though. What’s the cleaver in the foreground?


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## CiderBear (Jul 4, 2019)

Xenif said:


> I [emoji173]️ Nakiri
> Even when shes holding a gyutoView attachment 56214
> View attachment 56215



Honestly everyone in that anime seems to using a santoku 100% of the time 

Tell us a bit about your other Nakiris?


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## Xenif (Jul 4, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> Honestly everyone in that anime seems to using a santoku 100% of the time [emoji14]
> 
> Tell us a bit about your other Nakiris?


Just a bunch of pointless knives apparently ... 
Tanaka Ginsan, Hinoura White#1, Shigefusa, The Big Maz, Heiji 210 SemiStainless



ian said:


> Love your collection, though. What’s the cleaver in the foreground?



Yu Kurosaki Mini (175x73) Chuka, its almost a marriage between a chuka and nakiri


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## stringer (Jul 4, 2019)

Xenif said:


> Just a bunch of pointless knives apparently ...
> Tanaka Ginsan, Hinoura White#1, Shigefusa, The Big Maz, Heiji 210 SemiStainless
> 
> 
> ...



I often think of my nakiri as the little sports car in my knife drawer. I got the Fiero. You got the Ferraris.


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## Michi (Jul 4, 2019)

Xenif said:


> Just a bunch of pointless knives apparently ...
> Tanaka Ginsan, Hinoura White#1, Shigefusa, The Big Maz, Heiji 210 SemiStainless


Yeah, all cheap junk…


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## ian (Jul 4, 2019)

Xenif said:


> Yu Kurosaki Mini (175x73) Chuka, its almost a marriage between a chuka and nakiri



Oh, right! I was intrigued by this when you included it in the under $300 thread, but couldn't find any retailer selling it. Where did you get it?


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## CiderBear (Jul 4, 2019)

ian said:


> Oh, right! I was intrigued by this when you included it in the under $300 thread, but couldn't find any retailer selling it. Where did you get it?



I believe I saw one on KnS under his Syousin Chiku house brand


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## Lazyboy (Jul 5, 2019)

gstriftos said:


> @osakajoe yes I see what you mean, I am too intrigued to buy one as I cannot easily find an affordable tallish gyoto with a large flat to enjoy my beloved chopping.
> ...



(off topic: not sure what you call "tallish", but Yoshimune are under US$200, & have big flat spots: my 240 is 51mm at heel, KnS say they range 52-53 for 240 & 210, http://www.knivesandstones.com/yoshimune-sanjo-gyuto-240mm-white-2/ )


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## gstriftos (Jul 5, 2019)

In EU they are way over 200 euro..


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Jul 30, 2020)

oh I guess threads like these were what people meant when they said that nakiris weren't popular on the forum...

rip


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## M1k3 (Jul 30, 2020)

My condolences.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Jul 30, 2020)

A gyuto is the better all-round knife hands down. You need length and a tip to be able to nicely draw cut proteins IMO, like trimming fat caps and such. A 240mm nakiri workhorse would carry too much metal too far down the blade making it unwieldy, so for longer lengths a tip would be a practical choice to extend the edge without adding too much weight.

That being said, for most all other tasks, my 160mm nakiri has the same flat spot (a bit more) than my old 200mm Miyabi SG2 Birchwood gyuto.

My nakiri is a shorter knife, taking up less space on my counter and board. The length gives me more control, and I can just place an index finger at the tip if I want to guide my knife if I'm thinly slicing shallots or something. It's thinner, meaning it parts through root vegetables and tubers much easier. The slight curve at the tip means I can chiffonade green onions, basil, cilantro, etc. no problem. My claw grip can only hold like 4.5 inches of food max, so as long as the edge is longer than that and sharp enough to go straight down, why would I need a longer length?

I've been using my nakiri almost exclusively for the past year, and while it took a bit to get used to the knife, I don't feel like I need a gyuto anymore (since I'm vegetarian and don't process larger veggies like napa cabbage)


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## spaceconvoy (Jul 30, 2020)

Agreed! I don't get people who say you can't de-seed a bell pepper without a tip. Just do it, it's not a problem - you will never need to stab produce if your edge is sharp enough. And as an omnivore, I find a 150mm petty is better for all the meat processing I do at home (mostly chicken, though I'm sure something larger would be necessary in a pro kitchen or for more carnivorous home cooks).

Why do so many people collect multiple 240mm gyutos, rather than diversifying with a wider variety of specialized knives? For what I cook, I use my nakiri probably more than any other knife, closely tied with my cleaver. I used to own a few gyutos, but sold them all after realizing they're never my first choice for any task. 

The only problem with most nakiris is they're too short. The dearth of 180mm options is almost criminal.


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 30, 2020)

Many discoveries were by accident. 
Japanese discovered Nakiri after broken a big gyuto in half by accident. Who needs the tip? They said, & went on defending the broken gyuto as Nakiri and managed to gather a small gollowing


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## Ruso (Jul 30, 2020)

You are killing it with this title man! Its obvious that the point of a nakiri is at furtherest bottom corner! 

I personally find nakiris kinda useless, I pick mine time to time, but just to use something different. Gyutos are way superior.


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## Xenif (Jul 30, 2020)

Y'all missin' the point


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## Ruso (Jul 30, 2020)

Xenif said:


> Y'all missin' the point


Nah, “only” the Nakiris and Usabas do


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## ian (Jul 30, 2020)

Xenif said:


> Y'all missin' the point


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