# Forgecraft Prices now officially crazy



## gic (May 19, 2015)

well we can blame ourselves, I think it is fair to say the prices have gone at least a little bit crazy, the last one I was bidding on (a 10" in good but not great shape) sold for something close to $60 as a delivered price and one is routinely seeing them in the $70 range.

I like my forgies a lot but considering they often involve thinning-especially the later ones which aren't ground as well, occasionally involve rehandling and always involve a major sharpening session, buying a Fujiwara or Masahiro carbon for around $80 would seem a much better deal, no?


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## tcmx3 (May 19, 2015)

depends on your goal.

there's more to life than raw performance.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 19, 2015)

I am sure you have some good swap meets whatever you call them there in the Bay area. I have found best deals on old carbons. Some guys have a bunch of old knives some are crap but others definitely worth restoring.


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## chiffonodd (May 19, 2015)

Seems a bit morbid but I'm gonna start checking out estate sales.


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## Dardeau (May 19, 2015)

It's nuts. I had a small one I used as a boner when I first started cooking and it was a good and very useful knife. But I paid twelve dollars for it at the flea market. I occasionally get the urge to buy another but every time I do the prices deter me.


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## Dave Martell (May 19, 2015)

I was surfing ebay for Forgies and I've came to the conclusion that not only is there very little available compared to the past but the prices are whacked now. I also believe that everyone bidding is a KKF member.


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## Noodle Soup (May 19, 2015)

Well I took that 10 inch Chef that sold today all the way up to $26 if anyone is wondering.  Mostly out of curiosity. Frankly, I don't see any difference between these knives and Ontario Old Hickory's. At one time every major cutlery company had their own version for their low end consumer line. And many more hardware distributors had one or another cutlery company making knives under their own private label.


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## panda (May 19, 2015)

i don't get the obsession with old carbons, i think they are crap. just because its carbon doesn't make it good, it's still low end steel. i would rather use a brand new kiwi for bargain prices.


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## Livlif (May 19, 2015)

panda said:


> i don't get the obsession with old carbons, i think they are crap. just because its carbon doesn't make it good, it's still low end steel. i would rather use a brand new kiwi for bargain prices.



Agreed!


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## turbochef422 (May 19, 2015)

I'm not a forgecraft guy myself as I've tried twice and just wasn't feeling it both times. But I do love my vintage sabs. The ones I have at least have the sickest taper which I like a lot, gets super sharp, holds it for a good amount of time definitely can be used as beaters and not crazy reactive. Don't really see what's not to like. I got one a few months ago for $60 and feel it's hands down better than anything in that price range.


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## gic (May 20, 2015)

Actually forgies aren't necessarily crappy steel, when the nice folks at Bloodroot rehandled mine and tuned it they also found the HRC was about 61, that's pretty darn good and I can testify that that one at least sharpens pretty easily and stays sharp for a long time. So maybe it depends on the forgie one is looking at?


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## brainsausage (May 20, 2015)

panda said:


> i don't get the obsession with old carbons, i think they are crap. just because its carbon doesn't make it good, it's still low end steel. i would rather use a brand new kiwi for bargain prices.



Not true in many respects. The three forges I've owned had stellar profiles, and pretty decent steel. Performed better than knives many times the price.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 20, 2015)

Restored a few vintage carving sets Forged carbon steel, thin flexible blades 1890's that steel is not crap. One I've kept says double shear steel, gets razor sharp on the stones & breaks down birds quite well.


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (May 20, 2015)

I got forgies for $30 and $40 shipped in the past month off ebay. Got to find the "make an offer" ones. Bidding goes nuts.


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## KitchenCommander (May 20, 2015)

Yeah, I was watching 2 in recent weeks. One sold this week around $55 shipped, the other last week was a little patina-ed for $28 + shipping. I bought mine for like $37 shipped. You can get them around $40 now if your lucky. And for $40 or less I consider it a good buy. I was bidding on the one last week that sold for $28+shipping. I tried to make it $29, but my computer was too slow. I was wanting a backup for mine because I love the flat profile of Forgecraft Chef.


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## panda (May 20, 2015)

I've handled a few and never got the 'hey this is not bad' feeling like I do with tojiro dp. Maybe their quality control was all over the place.


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## boomchakabowwow (May 20, 2015)

panda said:


> i don't get the obsession with old carbons, i think they are crap. just because its carbon doesn't make it good, it's still low end steel. i would rather use a brand new kiwi for bargain prices.



i agree! you dont get it.


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## daveb (May 20, 2015)

I like the forgies but recognize that part of of the reason is because they represent the last American made production cutlery (that's worth a damn). I don't think they are great knives but like them as good knives.

The 10" Chef commands the highest price on the bay and I've seen them north of $100. I've bought three, considerably cheaper, and usually in "sets" with another knife. It's not unusual to see a 10" for $50ish, and on the same day see a 10" and a slicer together for $20ish. The two forgies I acutally use regularly are the Bullnose butcher ($16) and the boning knife ($12). Both of these are uniquely "western" knives and do quite well at the tasks they are designed for. And the cleaver is a fun little chopper that I can whack the hell out of on the BBQ table.

I've got everything I need to thin out and fine tune my set except for knowledge, skill and courage. Some day.


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## menzaremba (May 21, 2015)

I think it's as simple as this: If there was an American production knife we were going to call "a classic" it would be Forgecraft Hi-Carbons. They looked like gyutos before they were cool. They are wide-beveled and beautiful. They can still take a breathtaking edge. Like it or not, they are being bought by collectors and kitchen hipsters for the same reasons you'd buy a vintage mustang over a Hyundai. I wouldn't be surprised if the pricing continued to go up, I'm glad I have a few in storage.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 22, 2015)

Because of this thread started looking at vintage carbon chef knives on E-Bay. Many seem a little overpriced to me. Noticed one guy specializes in older carbon blades his prices are up there.

Even some blades without the full heel bolsters have high heels on them from poor sharpening tech. over the years. It is a common mistake not paying enough attention to the heel area of the knife. If it is not too bad it is fixable.


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## Matus (May 22, 2015)

Are the 'normal' and 'hi-carbon' Forgecraft knives - and if yes - how to recognise them?


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## gic (May 22, 2015)

i believe they are either carbon steel with various levels of grinds from awesome to meh, but all can be tuned to be "awesome" and a rather horrid soft stainless steel that nobody in their right mind would ever buy .


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## menzaremba (May 22, 2015)

keithsaltydog said:


> Because of this thread started looking at vintage carbon chef knives on E-Bay. Many seem a little overpriced to me. Noticed one guy specializes in older carbon blades his prices are up there.
> 
> Even some blades without the full heel bolsters have high heels on them from poor sharpening tech. over the years. It is a common mistake not paying enough attention to the heel area of the knife. If it is not too bad it is fixable.



I know exactly who you are talking about, and I agree there's no bargains, but he does seem to find interesting knives. He has a weird old gyuto on there that I've been eyeing for months. I do wish that he would stop sharpening and buffing his knives. That said, all the purchases I've made from him have gone smoothly.


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## Noodle Soup (May 22, 2015)

menzaremba said:


> I know exactly who you are talking about, and I agree there's no bargains, but he does seem to find interesting knives. He has a weird old gyuto on there that I've been eyeing for months. I do wish that he would stop sharpening and buffing his knives. That said, all the purchases I've made from him have gone smoothly.



I know who you are talking about too. Every old carbon blade seems to be pure gold to him. I "won" a group of three Forgecraft knives today just out of curiosity of what the big deal is. Paid more than I really think they are worth. They are also three patterns I don't normally use much, 6-inch stiff boning, 7-inch butcher and 8-inch slicer. But I know those were the three most common patterns in years past.


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## Dave Martell (May 23, 2015)

Ralph?


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## ecchef (May 23, 2015)

Dave Martell said:


> Ralph?



yeah..."Razor Sharp" Ralph.

menzaremba, which one were you looking at?


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## menzaremba (May 23, 2015)

ecchef said:


> yeah..."Razor Sharp" Ralph.
> 
> menzaremba, which one were you looking at?



It was a LION GENERAL 270mm "proto-gyuto" that was supposed to be from the early 50s/60s. Sold now. Seemed like one of the "missing links" from the Japanese knife industry post WWII. Basically a quality copy of a French chef knife, just the like the Forgecrafts.


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## menzaremba (May 23, 2015)

For those that haven't seen it before, here is an early 60s catalog of the whole Forgecraft Hi-Carbon line. 
http://imgur.com/qETSp1m


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## brainsausage (May 23, 2015)

menzaremba said:


> For those that haven't seen it before, here is an early 60s catalog of the whole Forgecraft Hi-Carbon line.
> http://imgur.com/qETSp1m



That explains why the parer I purchased in a group lot, a couple years ago, looks so funky.


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## sachem allison (May 23, 2015)

http://www.forgecraft.co/about/ been waiting a year for these guys to pull their heads out of their asses.


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## Noodle Soup (May 23, 2015)

so you are saying I was played for a sucker? Doesn't really surprise me with anything on the web. I've had a few little successes doing the same to others I won't go into here but is it scary what you can do if you try.


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## menzaremba (May 23, 2015)

sachem allison said:


> http://www.forgecraft.co/about/ been waiting a year for these guys to pull their heads out of their asses.



Er... woops. Something new will be up there soon. Promise.


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## sachem allison (May 23, 2015)

:razz:i suspected as much, I want the damascus eating set, for waiting so long.lol:spiteful:


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## menzaremba (Oct 29, 2015)

menzaremba said:


> Er... woops. Something new will be up there soon. Promise.



It took awhile, but my forgecraft site has finally been updated.


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## daveb (Oct 29, 2015)

Prety knife. Price is a bit nuts.


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (Oct 29, 2015)

Wait what? Did these guys buy the name?


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## deltaplex (Oct 29, 2015)

Slick sight design, don't particularly care for the tone of their FAQ answers (and I'm not even that old!). I'll second that the knife design is clean an aesthetically nice, but the price is silly.


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## chinacats (Oct 29, 2015)

Does seem very expensive for a new knife to market. While the costs of setting up are high, seems like you'd want to price these so they would move quickly. Maybe they will move quickly...hope they cut as well as they look.

Obviously edited response...as to price, it compares to well known/respected makers and they may be a bit optimistic until people have tried them...market sets the price so maybe it's even under priced (what do I know?) but I wouldn't pay more than ~250 usd for an unknown quality knife by an unknown maker.


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## spoiledbroth (Oct 29, 2015)

chinacats said:


> There, fixed that for you...



what's so unreasonable about 349 for a white 2 japanese made knife?? with a pretty nice handle?

besides the fact this has nothing to do with the original forgecraft company, other than them having the rights to use the name (so we have no way to infer quality by reputation)


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## Corrado (Oct 29, 2015)

When I first saw the knife I immediately thought Gesshin Kagekiyo. Looks to have the same grind, uses the same sanmai steels and the handle is a dead ringer for the lacquered version sold by Jon.


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## deltaplex (Oct 29, 2015)

I could change my comment to optimistic, from silly, to be fair; unknown maker/performance/quality, etc.


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## gic (Oct 29, 2015)

These guys are very clever to have registered a "dead" trademark - they may not have had to pay anything to do this other than PTO fees! MY hat is off to them.

But as far as I can tell what they are using it for is to sell a pretty standard, somewhat overpriced, white #2 san mai Japanese Gyuto - probably a pretty OK knife if it is made by a good Japanese maker as I am sure it will be. But it doesn't look like a forgie and isn't even monosteel.

Personally, I'm not going to buy one for my collection just because they engrave a great name on what seems like a standard knife!


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## spoiledbroth (Oct 29, 2015)

gic said:


> These guys are very clever to have registered a "dead" trademark - they may not have had to pay anything to do this other than PTO fees! MY hat is off to them.
> 
> But as far as I can tell what they are using it for is to sell a pretty standard, somewhat overpriced, white #2 san mai Japanese Gyuto - probably a pretty OK knife if it is made by a good Japanese maker as I am sure it will be. But it doesn't look like a forgie and isn't even monosteel.
> 
> Personally, I'm not going to buy one for my collection just because they engrave a great name on what seems like a standard knife!


Yep, that's what I was thinking. 

Although to be honest I gotta say I don't think the price is insane...


[edited out].. looks like they say the knife is made by dentou kogeishi. These guys are Canadian, in fact, a little town where I helped open up a chain restaurant...

Also the shape of these new forgecrafts looks so much like a moritaka ks its not funny.


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## menzaremba (Oct 29, 2015)

Corrado said:


> When I first saw the knife I immediately thought Gesshin Kagekiyo. Looks to have the same grind, uses the same sanmai steels and the handle is a dead ringer for the lacquered version sold by Jon.



Good eye. They are made by the same smith, with a custom profile that matched the best 1950s Forgecraft we could find.


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## 2010ZR1 (Oct 29, 2015)

I don't think it is too much and it does look pretty good. So I ordered one. I will see how it works out and report back.


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## mikedtran (Oct 29, 2015)

Being from the same maker as the Kagekiyo line the price on this seems very fair. 

Also have to give you props on the savvy to register the trademark and the beautifully designed site. That being said it isn't a knife that is on the top of my list to acquire.

Looking forward to seeing reviews and also seeing more from you =)


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## mikedtran (Oct 29, 2015)

2010ZR1 said:


> I don't think it is too much and it does look pretty good. So I ordered one. I will see how it works out and report back.



Looking forward to your review!


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## Dave Martell (Oct 29, 2015)

menzaremba, maybe you should consider contributing as a vendor before announcing your new knife line here?


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## SousVideLoca (Oct 29, 2015)

Knife is very close to a knife made 100 years ago in Thiers, France. BTW, "Sabatier" isn't protected by copyright law, you should totally release a second line of knives called "Forgecraft: Sabatier Edition" and really watch the panties fly.


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## mikedtran (Oct 29, 2015)

SousVideLoca said:


> Which is very close to a knife made 100 years ago in Thiers, France. BTW, "Sabatier" isn't protected by copyright law, you should totally release a second line of knives called "Forgecraft: Sabatier Edition" and really watch the panties fly.



I'm neutral leaning negative on these 'Forgecrafts'. That being said if this knife is by the same maker as the Kagekiyo carried by JKI, Chubo, Buttermilk it is actually normally/fairly priced. Though personally from the choil shots these knives Kagekiyo look a bit thick behind the edge for my liking and I think there are better knives at the $350 range.

Side note different guys then Misen.



Dave Martell said:


> menzaremba, maybe you should consider contributing as a vendor before announcing your new knife line here?



Would have to agree, that this sounds like a good suggestion.


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## chinacats (Oct 29, 2015)

Love how they use this place for marketing research and straight out product pushing. I'm sure you'll sell your knives but you're not doing so much for the reputation of the company's name you took. Just saying for that money you could've found a North American maker, done monosteel with or without the original cool pattern, step up as a vendor here. If you're the same guys with that last knife (misen) then go make your buck off the mainstream market.
Cheers

BTW, just curious if Jon's Kagekio maker was already known or if you talked to Jon before revealing this?


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## SousVideLoca (Oct 29, 2015)

_Edit - Redacted._


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## Lefty (Oct 29, 2015)

I think it's a pretty awesome idea, from a business standpoint, and truthfully, the knives are going to be top performers. They said pretty openly that they plan on doing an American made version soon/when they find a maker to do so. 

They didn't call themselves knifemakers, but rather said they started a knife company. Just sayin'. 

I think these are great looking knives. You have my vote, so long as you continue and try to keep the history/reputation in mind. Well done, guys.


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## WildBoar (Oct 29, 2015)

Ugh, this thread makes me feel dirty. More power to you guys for riding the coattails of a historic knifemaking company, but it definitely sours me on the product. But then again I doubt people on this forum are really the target market.


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## buttermilk (Oct 29, 2015)

I wondered why the Forgecraft Crazy Price thread hit six pages. I see now.



SousVideLoca said:


> Oh sweet mother of God. Aren't these the same hipster toolbags who designed the Misen knives? How in the **** did this industry get infiltrated by so many Instagram knuckleheads? Pro Tip: sharpening a knife will ruin your manicure, boys, but congrats on co-opting a name, leasing a knife design, and calling yourselves a "knife company."
> 
> You're doing us proud, really.
> 
> ...



Really working that hard-crush, Loca! A proper crush always make me all warm and fuzzy.


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## SousVideLoca (Oct 29, 2015)

I redacted that comment and will remove myself from the thread; I said my piece, anything more is just bullying. Good luck with your "knife company."


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## brainsausage (Oct 29, 2015)

The title for this thread just became much more relevant...


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## daveb (Oct 29, 2015)

Lets back the truck up. I'm going to shut this down - at least temporarily. 

Menz - You can call it informative, promoting, shilling, or pimping. Seems to me you've been here awhile asking "market research" type questions and been doing so under what's easily constued as false pretenses. 

Time out.


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## Lefty (Oct 29, 2015)

Underwear!?! Sorry....


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## daveb (Oct 29, 2015)

FSC


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## brainsausage (Oct 29, 2015)

Nothing about these say Forgecraft to me. I don't understand why you couldn't just honor the artisans that produced these knives, and put their marks on it. Just feels like gimmicky marketing to me.


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## daveb (Oct 29, 2015)

Can't seem to shut it from fon. I've called for reinforcements.


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## spoiledbroth (Oct 29, 2015)

They didn't actually post a link to their site, that was a real forum member what did that... in before close I guess. Sad to see things turned out this way. I have looked at many a japanese made knife and thought that x or y could be changed for the North American market. I'm not so sure this is different.



sachem allison said:


> http://www.forgecraft.co/about/ been waiting a year for these guys to pull their heads out of their asses.


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## Cheeks1989 (Oct 29, 2015)

Not my cup of tea but best of luck menzaremba.


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## pleue (Oct 29, 2015)

On another forgecraft front, I sent hoss an unsharpened 8" and he has the 10" as well. he's planning at some point to get around to an homage to them, albeit without the logo I take it, though I think I like the devin logo better


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## menzaremba (Oct 29, 2015)

pleue said:


> On another forgecraft front, I sent hoss an unsharpened 8" and he has the 10" as well. he's planning at some point to get around to an homage to them, albeit without the logo I take it, though I think I like the devin logo better



I sent him the best (and earliest) 1950s Forgecraft that I have as well. You know that anything that Devin makes is going to be awesome.


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## menzaremba (Oct 29, 2015)

Well, I severely underestimated how much attention this would get. I really just wanted people to know that we'd finally "got our head our of our a***". I'm always happy to talk about knives, and definitely have empathy with a lot of the opinions here (we do kind of like look instagram hipsters). I'm going to bow out of this thread.


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## Lefty (Oct 29, 2015)

Is the plaid shirt itchy? Like, is it flannel, or dress shirt material? Oh, sorry. PM.


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## alterwisser (Oct 29, 2015)

Lefty said:


> Is the plaid shirt itchy? Like, is it flannel, or dress shirt material? Oh, sorry. PM.



Isn't plaid the new black?!?


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## SousVideLoca (Oct 29, 2015)

Only if you wear it with a metro beard.


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## Bill13 (Nov 3, 2015)

Moving the thread back to it's original intent

Here is one on the bay that got too expensive for me. http://www.ebay.com/itm/121798506509


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## spoiledbroth (Nov 3, 2015)

I'm curious to know if vintage forgies are better than newer clones like R Murphy carbon or Ontario Knife old hickory (which even has the forgecraft brick pattern on the faces of the blade... spooky).


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## Noodle Soup (Nov 3, 2015)

It is worth remembering that Ontario originated that faux "handforged" blade pattern and the majority of other cutlery companies copied it later in the 1920-1930 period. Then there are dozens of private label knives produced by Ontario knives. I personally think the Case XX versions were probably the best quality.


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (Nov 4, 2015)

Wow $82?! I bought rehandled and gifted 3 of these in the summer. Most I paid was $30-40


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## Bill13 (Nov 4, 2015)

I've been on the look out for a few months and this was in the best shape, I thought it would go higher, so I didn't follow it closely enough to try a last minute bid.


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