# Help me choose better beater knives



## mast3quila (Oct 1, 2013)

I have my knives (Takeda, Heiji) and the family has theirs (Calphalon Classic Forged). This question is about theirs.

It bugs me seeing Made in China with German Steel every time I use one.
It also bugs me that the bolster is huge and prevents me from sharpening the heel. I've sharpened them enough that there is a gap at the heel on a few of them.

So...I want to replace them.

Is there a general consensus on which German brand/line is most desirable?

I will take care of them as far as sharpening goes and pulling them out of the dishwasher when I see one in there. However, they will see granite and disposable thin plastic cutting surfaces most of the time. It's a battle I can't seem to win ullhair:

I'll probably replace just the 8" chefs, boning, paring, and that serrated tomato/bagel thing unless I find a killer deal on a whole block from one of those big stores that always has coupons and clearances.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.


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## Dusty (Oct 1, 2013)

Victorinox, no bolster, not horrible to sharpen, not crazy thick, not too expensive... Try to keep them off the granite I guess.


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## mhlee (Oct 1, 2013)

I would forego the other European stuff and go for a Global. My Global G-2 has been extremely durable over the 10+ years I've had it.


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## Dusty (Oct 1, 2013)

Probably a good call as well, I guess make a call based on budget.


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## Lefty (Oct 1, 2013)

Global are still pretty damn good knives for the masses. In fact, I'd recommend them to someone who needs pure indestructible construction, combined with pretty nice cutting. There was the rumor years ago, about them snapping off at the handle, but I haven't seen it come up in a while. It seems like a strange suggestion, sure, but the look also makes non-knife nuts ooh and ahh, and rightfully so. If you could snag one for $90 or less, they're a pretty good choice. Every knife has its pros and cons, right?

***I'd also like to add that I wish the Calphalon knives were made in the US, or Japan. I still love the look of the Katana line. There, I said it.


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## mast3quila (Oct 1, 2013)

Thanks. My thinking with the Eurosteel is that is will have a low HRC so will be less likely to chip on the counter. I have heard good things about Victorinox but the look a little thin to me to be prying apart frozen sausages and stuff. I've never used one though.


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## mast3quila (Oct 1, 2013)

Lefty said:


> ***I'd also like to add that I wish the Calphalon knives were made in the US, or Japan. I still love the look of the Katana line. There, I said it.



Homegoods had those in stock a year or so ago. I picked up the Santoku for $19.99 and it is really a good cutter. But again that "China" stamp is there, and even if I remove it I'll still know the truth.


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## Baby Huey (Oct 1, 2013)

Get a thin putty knife and sharpen the edge for prying. I would not recommend using any knife for that if you can help it.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 1, 2013)

mast3quila said:


> It also bugs me that the bolster is huge and prevents me from sharpening the heel. I've sharpened them enough that there is a gap at the heel on a few of them.



Tip the point up and grind the finger guard so you can sharpen the whole edge.


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## mast3quila (Oct 1, 2013)

now that's a good idea. like why didn't I think of that


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## kungpao (Oct 1, 2013)

Another vote for Global here.


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## Mrmnms (Oct 1, 2013)

I still have a Messermeister in my kitchen for rough work as well as Globals. You can sharpen the whole edge. Knife as soe weight to it.


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## mast3quila (Oct 1, 2013)

I never would have considered Global. Clearly I have an inaccurate opinion that they are semi-delicate like Shun. Not sure why I thought that because I've never really looked at their stuff. Just seems like the name gets tossed in with Shun I guess. Ok I will heard over to the Global site and see what they are all about.


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## JKerr (Oct 1, 2013)

+1 on Rick's suggestion. I still buy old french knives from time to time and just grind the bolster off as suggested to "get into" the edge. Alternatively, the Fujiwara stainless could be a good option, pretty sure it's a bit cheaper than Globals and probably not substantially more then Victorinox, but they still stand up favorably with many of the knife nerds around here.


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## mast3quila (Oct 1, 2013)

Messermeister Meridian Elite looks perfect. Do we like Cutleryandmore?


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## Mrmnms (Oct 1, 2013)

EE carries them, a forum member . I've had fine service from both.


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## Lefty (Oct 1, 2013)

Globals are thin, so people think they're delicate, but the relative softness of the steel allows for them to roll before they chip, much like a German knife. They're kind of a more nimble, slightly harder, better profiled futuristic looking knife that is made in Japan. It doesn't make sense, but it makes perfect sense.  I'll upload a pic of my "beauty" when I get home, shortly. 

Also, I like the Messermeister suggestion. They have an option that doesn't have the annoying finger guard, and a slightly nicer profile (still Rick Ross belly, but nicer than a Wusty). It was years ago that I used them, but I think it's the Meridien Elite. It's worth looking at for the family, and there's something to be said for not having the same German knives as your neighbors. 

I'd like to add that I'm enjoying this thread, because so far we've dodged the trend of naming the currently chic choice. Sometimes we forget that the knives that got us here are still more than acceptable tools.


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## daveb (Oct 1, 2013)

Another happy (albeit occasional) user of Messermeister Meridian Elite. A little blade heavy, robust, with semi-bolster, knife will take almost any abuse. You want 2 cups of chopped walnuts - you got 2 cups of chopped walnuts. And still have an edge. 

Not a fan of Global. The metal handles are uncomfortable to me, the edges and spine are all sharp. People I know that have them, like them a lot. 

At that price point some of the less expensive Japanese stainless knives are also available.


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## DSChief (Oct 1, 2013)

Have a few Messermeister's, They are pretty good as entry level beater's. I use a 4" chef's as my poor man's Deba
the profile & size make it really handy for breaking down whole chickens.






Amazon.com carries the complete line. you can also order online direct from the So. Cal distributor

One Caveat , I don't really care for their parer's, It seems like they used photo shop
to shrink the prints of a slicer down to 3". Just because I want a smaller blade
doesn't mean my hands shrink to match. The handles feel like #2 pencils


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## easy13 (Oct 1, 2013)

Togiharu Moybdenum 210 - $86. We used to keep one of these around on the beater magnetic strip at a previous job for prep cooks/trails without knives/general beater usage. Maybe saw the stones once or twice in a year, definitely not used delicately though got used and honed frequently. I was always surprised that it was in good shape and had a decent edge on it when I would grab it to open something or demo a task for someone.


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## mast3quila (Oct 1, 2013)

Here's my shopping cart:
Messermeister Meridian Elite 2.5-in. Bird's Beak Peeling Knife (I like it for coring strawberries, splitting sausage casing)
Messermeister Meridian Elite 5-in. Tomato Knife (wife likes it for almost everything)
Messermeister Meridian Elite 6-in. Utility Knife (wife's other favorite)
Masahiro 6.25-in. Boning Knife (my go to for most anything when I don't feel like unboxing the good knives)
Togiharu Molybdenum 210 Gyutou (to replace the 8" chefs)

All for $367 and avoids the current brands du jour. Also they don't look a whole lot different than what we have now (aka wife probably won't notice)


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## mast3quila (Oct 1, 2013)

oh and thanks guys for the Global recommendation. I looked and learned much more about them but they just don't do it for me aesthetically. Not that that should matter, but it does.


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## aaamax (Oct 1, 2013)

What is your price point? If you're in the global range that's an expensive beater. Thriftstores are an xlnt resource for cheap knives. The Ikea knives from the 70s-80s with wood handles are easy to sharpen and you won't cry when your $1 purchase ends up in the dishwasher. Up from that I still say the old 4 star Henckles are a good knife if you don't mind stainless, that is if you buy used in the $15-20 range. Globals... I see more of those in cook's rolls than ANY other and they are always so proud of them. To each their own, but I would rather use a shity Henckle, just feels better in the hand. And I'm a die hard Wa handle guy.
Go thriftin'


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 1, 2013)

aaamax said:


> What is your price point? If you're in the global range that's an expensive beater. Thriftstores are an xlnt resource for cheap knives. The Ikea knives from the 70s-80s with wood handles are easy to sharpen and you won't cry when your $1 purchase ends up in the dishwasher. Up from that I still say the old 4 star Henckles are a good knife if you don't mind stainless, that is if you buy used in the $15-20 range. Globals... I see more of those in cook's rolls than ANY other and they are always so proud of them. To each their own, but I would rather use a shity Henckle, just feels better in the hand. And I'm a die hard Wa handle guy.
> Go thriftin'



True I have bought a bunch of blades from the swapmeet


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## mast3quila (Oct 1, 2013)

Price was under 400USD for 5-6 knives. I wanted to step up a little bit. We don't have many thrift stores around us, in fact I can only think of one but I really should go there more often. Knowing our area I might just find a chipped Shun or two in there.


Just noticed I need 50 posts to sell in BST.


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## aaamax (Oct 1, 2013)

mast3quila said:


> Price was under 400USD for 5-6 knives.
> Just noticed I need 50 posts to sell in BST.



Well hell then, lets keep posting!
If you're up in that range I'd tell the family that it's time for them to learn to take care of knives and buy some simple Carbon, but decent, cheap ones like a couple of country style Tosagatas. We're talking roughly 60 bones for a new 240ish Gyuto type or a Nakiri and then throw in a 120ish parer for $35. You don't need more than that and when the kids leave them in a puddle of orange juice, just revel in the new patina! lol.


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## mast3quila (Oct 1, 2013)

See then I will start caring too much about their knives. And next thing you know I'll have to hide them all and start over with a cheapie block for them. The only time they really cook is when I'm not around - which would mean I wouldn't be there to pull the blade out of the dish water, etc. Half way to 50!


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## Lefty (Oct 1, 2013)

I hate to say it, but carbon is a big no or non-knife enthusiasts. They don't get it, it's too much effort and they won't use them. My wife won't touch any carbon knives, even after all these years, and the same goes for my friends/their wives.


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## mhlee (Oct 1, 2013)

Agreed. If there is any chance that the knives are going into a dishwasher, carbon steel is definitely out. I wouldn't even recommend semi-stainless steel knives.

The fact that Globals are entirely steel, and a very stainless steel, makes them great for people who throw knives into dishwashers. They'll get scratched, but they wont degrade. And, if they stain, a softer scrubbing sponge will take off most stains. Even pakkawood handles get thrashed in the dishwasher or if soaked in standing water.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 1, 2013)

I have never owned or used a Global,but have sharpened them.Just sharpened one the other day that was close to 12" long a real beast.I did like the long flatter edge profile on it.Was able to raise a burr after a little work on the stone & it took a keen edge.It is chrom moly wt. a good heat treatment.I imagine the edge holding is decent at best.I never could get past those handles either,but have known cooks who use & like them.

The Gesshin Uraku is a much better knife at around the same price as the Global.


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## Lefty (Oct 1, 2013)

Agreed....


But I haven't tried one.


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## gic (Oct 1, 2013)

Get the tramontina damascus VG10 set available on amazon and ebay for around $70, they are shun clones - even the silly damascus is similar and thus make superb beater knives. The Ikea knive in VG10 also aren't bad but would probably run more than the Tramontina....


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## mhlee (Oct 1, 2013)

keithsaltydog said:


> I have never owned or used a Global,but have sharpened them.Just sharpened one the other day that was close to 12" long a real beast.I did like the long flatter edge profile on it.Was able to raise a burr after a little work on the stone & it took a keen edge.It is chrom moly wt. a good heat treatment.I imagine the edge holding is decent at best.I never could get past those handles either,but have known cooks who use & like them.
> 
> The Gesshin Uraku is a much better knife at around the same price as the Global.



I agree that the Uraku is a better performing knife. But, the OP is looking for knives that can handle abuse, including being washed in a dishwasher. Since pakkawood handles can get damaged by being washed in a dishwasher, wa handles will likely get destroyed in a dishwasher.


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## mast3quila (Oct 2, 2013)

thanks guys. I purchased those I listed. Once they arrive I'll begin operation switch-a-roo and see if anyone but me notices.


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## Seb (Oct 2, 2013)

Pure Komachi:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0029XAAQ0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## mano (Oct 2, 2013)

mast3quila said:


> However, they will see granite and disposable thin plastic cutting surfaces most of the time. It's a battle I can't seem to win ullhair:



Buy a bunch of 2mm flexible cutting mats and always take a few with you. https://www.google.com/search?q=flexible+cutting+mats&rlz=1C1LENP_enUS534US534&oq=flexible+cutt&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.5363j0&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8


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## Mucho Bocho (Oct 2, 2013)

Are we talking about being washed by a dishwasher or in a dishwasher?

Just trying to understand? If you were cooking in a professional setting, wouldn't this mean you'd be going through a lot of knives. At home, I just wipe the blade, rinse it and dry the blade and handle with dry cloth. I consider myself pretty a disciplined cook with effective kitchen work flows but just can't seem to get into the habit of wiping the blade down after cutting.

Can you imagine running a Takeda, Carter or Kato through a dishwasher cycle. When I think about it, a little part of me dies.


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## Keith Sinclair (Oct 2, 2013)

No kidding washing & wiping down a knife is second nature.Education about knife care only takes a few minutes.It works too,most people in modern western society are clueless


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## mast3quila (Oct 3, 2013)

The Togiharu showed up yesterday. Korin got it to me overnight which was a huge surprise. The edge is going to need some work (extremely uneven grind) and I don't get the feeling that it is going to kill carrots like the heavy German blade it replaces. It is very light and thin in comparison. I'll add that it went through potatoes very nicely even with the crummy edge.


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## mast3quila (Oct 3, 2013)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Are we talking about being washed by a dishwasher or in a dishwasher?



A dishwasher. My wife kind of gets it, but the rest of her family, friends, etc who are often the ones cleaning the kitchen after a gathering will toss the knives in the washer along with the wooden spoons and anything else they can find. It's not every time, but a few times a year some of those knives go through the wash cycle.


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## Seb (Oct 3, 2013)

Granshe Original series: http://japan-blades.com/chef-knives/206.html


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## CoqaVin (Oct 3, 2013)

Seb said:


> Granshe Original series: http://japan-blades.com/chef-knives/206.html



That looks cool the Grandshe wonder how she performs/holds an edge?


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## CoqaVin (Oct 3, 2013)

CoqaVin said:


> That looks cool the Grandshe wonder how she performs/holds an edge?



Mast what did you end up getting the Togiharu stainless molybednum


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## mast3quila (Oct 3, 2013)

yeah the one easy mentioned for $86. I have a feeling I'm going to sell it and get the Messermeister 8" chefs. The Togiharu may be a beater J knife, but I need this thing to handle cutting through ears of corn, rough chopping carrots, ice-cream cakes, rock-chopping herbs, getting tossed in the sink and having plates dropped on top of it and what not. It was an impulsive buy that I didn't really research or think too much about. I saw the recommendation and for some reason just clicked BUY. I already have a nice gyuto.


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## CoqaVin (Oct 3, 2013)

mast3quila said:


> yeah the one easy mentioned for $86. I have a feeling I'm going to sell it and get the Messermeister 8" chefs. The Togiharu may be a beater J knife, but I need this thing to handle cutting through ears of corn, rough chopping carrots, ice-cream cakes, rock-chopping herbs, getting tossed in the sink and having plates dropped on top of it and what not. It was an impulsive buy that I didn't really research or think too much about. I saw the recommendation and for some reason just clicked BUY. I already have a nice gyuto.



Oh...I would like to have some non GERMAN beaters at home was looking forward to your review


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## mast3quila (Oct 3, 2013)

I am so freakin OCD sometimes. I just ordered the 9" Messer... I'm going to keep the Togi for my traveling case. I'll take some pictures of it later.


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## daveb (Oct 3, 2013)

You could do a lot worse than that Messermeister. A 9" is on my list, but not today's list. FWIW the bread knife in the series is (IMHO) way better than the Henckels, Wustie options and I prefer it to the Torijo (sp?).


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