# Do any Japanese makers produce coreless damascus blades?



## khashy (Apr 1, 2017)

All in the title really. 

If there are any makers, are these any good?


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## laxdad (Apr 1, 2017)

Yes, including Shun! :doublethumbsup:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/21077-Shun-Dual-Core-Knives-does-the-description-even-make-sense


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## JBroida (Apr 1, 2017)

echizen had some coreless options


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## panda (Apr 1, 2017)

damascus is whack, just get another honyaki.


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## khashy (Apr 1, 2017)

JBroida said:


> echizen had some coreless options



Is there a performance benefit to this, or is it more of an aesthetic/romantic thing?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 1, 2017)

khashy said:


> Is there a performance benefit to this, or is it more of an aesthetic/romantic thing?



Read my posts in this thread: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...e-Knives-does-the-description-even-make-sense

Yes, there is a small, but real, performance benefit.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Apr 1, 2017)

I guess its like the kid who gets told off for his fake thug demeanor once too often and goes rob a real bank 

Wonder if the japanese can outdo the german and russian blacksmiths at the coreless game?


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## richard (Apr 1, 2017)

Mcusta Zanmai also makes them:

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/mcusta-zanmai-kuronami


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## khashy (Apr 1, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Read my posts in this thread: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...e-Knives-does-the-description-even-make-sense
> 
> Yes, there is a small, but real, performance benefit.



Thanks. Did you ever manage to test them?


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## khashy (Apr 1, 2017)

richard said:


> Mcusta Zanmai also makes them:
> 
> http://www.cutleryandmore.com/mcusta-zanmai-kuronami



God that's expensive


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## aboynamedsuita (Apr 2, 2017)

I also thought hattori made some on the old JCK special page


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## jklip13 (Apr 2, 2017)

I believe there are only performance disadvantages to a Damascus cutting edge. You have 2 or more steels making up the cutting edge (if not worse - nickel) and the knife maker has to decide which one to heat treat optimally, or make a compromise between the two. We already know how difficult it is to bring out the best in just one steel.


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## malexthekid (Apr 2, 2017)

jklip13 said:


> I believe there are only performance disadvantages to a Damascus cutting edge. You have 2 or more steels making up the cutting edge (if not worse - nickel) and the knife maker has to decide which one to heat treat optimally, or make a compromise between the two. We already know how difficult it is to bring out the best in just one steel.



Do some searching on Del Ealy and damascus. He writes great piece which disproves everything you just said.

Though i will add that that is only for his Damascus and others selected in similar fashion.

You must realise that soft Damascus cladding and a solid damascus blade are two different beast and must be treated as such.


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## khashy (Apr 2, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Do some searching on Del Ealy and damascus. He writes great piece which disproves everything you just said.
> 
> Though i will add that that is only for his Damascus and others selected in similar fashion.
> 
> You must realise that soft Damascus cladding and a solid damascus blade are two different beast and must be treated as such.



Links please


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## malexthekid (Apr 2, 2017)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/897-A-bit-about-the-damascus-I-make


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## khashy (Apr 2, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/897-A-bit-about-the-damascus-I-make



Thank you


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Apr 2, 2017)

How is the MCusta truly expensive - Unlike some damascus-clads in the same price region, it uses an unusual probably custom-made material, has great F&F if the photos don't misrepresent it, will be a bummer to grind with no soft cladding...


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## khashy (Apr 2, 2017)

For my budget


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## jklip13 (Apr 2, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Do some searching on Del Ealy and damascus. He writes great piece which disproves everything you just said.
> 
> Though i will add that that is only for his Damascus and others selected in similar fashion.
> 
> You must realise that soft Damascus cladding and a solid damascus blade are two different beast and must be treated as such.



I'll check it out, I'd love to learn how it's possible


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Apr 2, 2017)

@khashy for mine too  But if you compare it with what eg an Uli Hennicke will cost, or even a known-fully-handmade damascus clad like Hinoura...


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## khashy (Apr 2, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @khashy for mine too  But if you compare it with what eg an Uli Hennicke will cost, or even a known-fully-handmade damascus clad like Hinoura...



Agreed, relatively speaking there are more expensive stuff. 

I had never seen an Uli btw. Nice.


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## tchan001 (Aug 13, 2020)

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but I was wondering about the worth of a Japanese hand forged coreless damascus made from white 1 and blue 1 steel.
Any thoughts?


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## Bear (Aug 13, 2020)

Google *Hitohira - Kyuzo Limited Special - Coreless Damascus - 240mm Gyuto*


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## tchan001 (Aug 13, 2020)

Hitohira Kyuzo Limited Special Coreless Damascuss Gyuto 240mm Taihei Makassar Ebony Handle (Saya)


Detailed SpecBrand: Hitohira ひとひら (一片) Profile: Gyuto Size: 240mm Steel Type: Stainless Steel Steel: VG-2/ VG-10 Handle: Taihei Makassar Ebony & Buffalo Horn Ferrule Octagonal Come with Saya Total Length: 388mm Edge Length: 230mm Handle to Tip Length: 242mm Blade Height: 45mm Thickness: 1.5mm...




hitohira-japan.com




That one is SS made from VG-2/VG-10. 

Looking for info on one made from White 1 and Blue 1. Thanks


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## chiffonodd (Aug 13, 2020)

Takeshi Saji does some . . .









Takeshi Saji Coreless Damascus Gyuto Japanese Knife 240mm White Stone Handle


Takeshi Saji One of the most well known and revered bladesmiths in Japan, Takeshi Saji captivates his customers with the beauty and finesse of his knives. Combining traditional forging techniques with new and innovative designs, Saji crafts beautiful, functional works of art. People say that his...




www.seisukeknife.com





Although a lot of this sounds a bit like marketing to me:

"Coreless Damascus steel combines layers of VG10 and VG2 stainless steels in a lamination process that does not require the use of an inner core steel. This creates an extremely even crystal structure within the steel allowing for increased durability and sharpness. *The added benefit of Coreless Damascus steel is that the cutting edge does not change with sharpening. This allows you to adjust the bevel to any desired style without compromising the structure of the blade*."

What?


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## tchan001 (Aug 13, 2020)

Specifically looking for info on this. Looks like it is made by 鬼才刀匠, but I can't find info on it in English. Wondering if it's worthwhile to consider ordering it especially the one that looks kind of like River Jump style.


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## btbyrd (Aug 13, 2020)

chiffonodd said:


> Although a lot of this sounds a bit like marketing to me:
> 
> "Coreless Damascus steel combines layers of VG10 and VG2 stainless steels in a lamination process that does not require the use of an inner core steel. This creates an extremely even crystal structure within the steel allowing for increased durability and sharpness. *The added benefit of Coreless Damascus steel is that the cutting edge does not change with sharpening. This allows you to adjust the bevel to any desired style without compromising the structure of the blade*."
> 
> What?



I think they're trying to point out that unlike san mai blades, you don't have to worry about the effect of sharpening and thinning on cladding versus the core steel. At least that's an charitable interpretation of what they said.


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## tchan001 (Aug 13, 2020)

My understanding is that Coreless Damascus means it's not Sanmai but is forged like western makers making their damascus. Those Japanese knives seem to be made with a combination of Hitachi white 1 steel and Hitachi blue 1 steel. So is there any advantage to such a knife compared with perhaps a similar style Damascus made by a well respected Western custom maker from other combinations of carbon steel.


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## chiffonodd (Aug 13, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> My understanding is that Coreless Damascus means it's not Sanmai but is forged like western makers making their damascus. Those Japanese knives seem to be made with a combination of Hitachi white 1 steel and Hitachi blue 1 steel. So is there any advantage to such a knife compared with perhaps a similar style Damascus made by a well respected Western custom maker from other combinations of carbon steel.



I think the answer must be "no." Shirogami and aogami are great steels, but there is nothing "magical" about them that would make a coreless damascus knife forged from one of those steels necessarily better than one made by a skilled western maker with comparable high carbon steel.


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## Bear (Aug 13, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> Hitohira Kyuzo Limited Special Coreless Damascuss Gyuto 240mm Taihei Makassar Ebony Handle (Saya)
> 
> 
> Detailed SpecBrand: Hitohira ひとひら (一片) Profile: Gyuto Size: 240mm Steel Type: Stainless Steel Steel: VG-2/ VG-10 Handle: Taihei Makassar Ebony & Buffalo Horn Ferrule Octagonal Come with Saya Total Length: 388mm Edge Length: 230mm Handle to Tip Length: 242mm Blade Height: 45mm Thickness: 1.5mm...
> ...



Sorry I knew I had seen one, I didn't realize it was VG-10


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## inferno (Aug 14, 2020)

these are pretty badass.








iiZA | Echizen Brand Products Consortium


Echizen Brand Products Consortium launches "iiza" products series. Hope you to discover innovated products through our door.




www.iiza.jp


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## Nokaji (Aug 14, 2020)

Zanmai 
Saji
Ryujin
Kamo - to order 
iiza - by Ryusen and from this year by Takamura
All above are in stock at Japanese Knife Company 
I know you asked for Japanese makers but have a look at the Nesmuk Exclusive Series from Germany - with 400, 800 upto 10,000 layer Niobium Steel are TOTALLY AWESOME also in stock


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## Jville (Aug 15, 2020)

Saji had a coreless blade i believe.


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## Qapla' (Aug 15, 2020)

Takayuki also has a VG-10/VG-2 one.








Sakai Takayuki VG10-VG2 Coreless Damascus Japanese Chef's Gyuto Knife 210mm with Desert Ironwood Handle


The Coreless Damascus Stainless Steel Knives are made of VG10 & VG2 multi-layered damascus steel throughout the entire blade.These knives have extremely hard edge, more excellent edge retention (durability x2) and better sharpness (cutting x 1.5) than the standard VG10 blades.The beautiful...



www.hocho-knife.com


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## JayS20 (Aug 15, 2020)

Nokaji said:


> Zanmai
> Saji
> Ryujin
> Kamo - to order
> ...


Having handled a few Nesmuks, not impressed at all, especially for the price.


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## Nokaji (Aug 15, 2020)

I am really surprised, I’ve been using a Janus for almost a year and it keeps an amazing edge for a long time and comes up beautifully on a 6000 grit stone.


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## sododgy (Aug 15, 2020)

Qapla' said:


> Takayuki also has a VG-10/VG-2 one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Makoto Kurasaki is doing a VG10/VG2 as well


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 15, 2020)

sododgy said:


> Makoto Kurasaki is doing a VG10/VG2 as well




That handle, makes me wonder if he is color blind?


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 15, 2020)

I thought this might be a cool project. Convert 340g of Kato dammy paperweight (???) into a something useful like a couple of knives.


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## Qapla' (Aug 15, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> I thought this might be a cool project. Convert 340g of Kato dammy paperweight (???) into a something useful like a couple of knives.View attachment 90539
> View attachment 90540


I know zero about metalworking, but I'd be watching this with interest.


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## Olsen (Aug 15, 2020)

Maksim had a one piece damascus Kato bowie for sale for around 4000$ 4-5 years ago


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 15, 2020)

Qapla' said:


> I know zero about metalworking, but I'd be watching this with interest.


Price went above what I thought I wanted to spend to make it happen. Plus I have no idea what steels were used to make the dammy blob so it's difficult to know what HT and quench would be optimal. Would have been a cool project though.


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## j22582536 (Aug 16, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> Specifically looking for info on this. Looks like it is made by 鬼才刀匠, but I can't find info on it in English. Wondering if it's worthwhile to consider ordering it especially the one that looks kind of like River Jump style.




I know this Hong Kong seller quite well, I've ordered few knives from him in the past and he does supply some very unique knives. These blades specifically are made by a Japanese damascus artist named Shouichi Hashimoto (橋本庄市); according to the seller, these damascus are a combination of white I & blue I steel; very special blades indeed but really depends on you whether it is worth ordering. 

Oh and by the way, "鬼才刀匠" means "Talented Blacksmith" in Mandarin


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## M1k3 (Aug 16, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> That handle, makes me wonder if he is color blind?


At least it's not oversized


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## Jaszer13 (Aug 18, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> Specifically looking for info on this. Looks like it is made by 鬼才刀匠, but I can't find info on it in English. Wondering if it's worthwhile to consider ordering it especially the one that looks kind of like River Jump style.




This is Hashimoto Shoichi he is a legend in Japan for co-creating the Lance of Longinus along side Master Swordsmith Sadanao Mikami. He is an artist of Damascus and offers both core and core-less Damascus knives. HK has been heavy trying to push his knives, but they are super expensive because he is more known as an "artist" rather than a blade smith.

Here's his website. I actually have one of his knives (with core) if you need specs.




http://www.layer-i.com


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## Alwayzbakin (Aug 18, 2020)

Jaszer13 said:


> This is Hashimoto Shoichi he is a legend in Japan for co-creating the Lance of Longinus along side Master Swordsmith Sadanao Mikami. He is an artist of Damascus and offers both core and core-less Damascus knives. HK has been heavy trying to push his knives, but they are super expensive because he is more known as an "artist" rather than a blade smith.
> 
> Here's his website. I actually have one of his knives (with core) if you need specs.
> 
> ...


Ummm does anyone else see genitals in the fourth pic?


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## Jaszer13 (Aug 18, 2020)

Alwayzbakin said:


> Ummm does anyone else see genitals in the fourth pic?


Don't see them. But if anyone is interested in the coreless blue1/white1 gyuto's @the_homebutcher just got one of the ladder one's for $1050. No handle.


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## tchan001 (Aug 18, 2020)

Thanks for the info.


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## friz (Aug 19, 2020)

Jaszer13 said:


> Don't see them. But if anyone is interested in the coreless blue1/white1 gyuto's @the_homebutcher just got one of the ladder one's for $1050. No handle.


I can't find it. Have you got the link of the product?


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## Jaszer13 (Aug 19, 2020)

friz said:


> I can't find it. Have you got the link of the product?



You need to DM him he doesn't post those. I spoke to him today and he has it.


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## friz (Aug 19, 2020)

Jaszer13 said:


> You need to DM him he doesn't post those. I spoke to him today and he has it.


How do you find his knives? Him being an artist I am scared of performance being overlooked over design.


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## friz (Aug 19, 2020)

I have seen a Honyaki gyuto made by Hashimoto Shoichi, and he has a beatiful banding showing, it was a white#2.
Also I have seen the pictures of his gyutos with damascus cladding and damascus core (core being white2 and blue2). Honyaki and damascus both listed for 250.000JPY each.


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## Jaszer13 (Aug 19, 2020)

friz said:


> How do you find his knives? Him being an artist I am scared of performance being overlooked over design.



HK (JP) is his main distributor depending on where you live he will most likely forward your request to Syuokon (China) or Home Butcher (USA). He produces only a few knives as most of his time he is assisting Master Mikami-san on projects.

As far as his work, his Damascus is stupid nice. But his craftsmanship could use work. For instance the first knife I tested of his had great cutting performance, but rough edges on the coil and spine (something a non-knife maker would know is important). The latest batch has been a lot better. Still haven't cut with it yet though.


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## parbaked (Dec 23, 2020)

Hitohira - Kyuzo - Limited Special Coreless Damascus - 135mm Petty - Kurokaki Persimmon Handle - Saya


Brand: Hitohira ひとひら (一片)Sharpener: Kyuzo 久蔵Profile: PettySteel Type: Stainless Coreless DamascusBevel: Double BevelBevel Symmetry: 50:50Hand Orientation: AmbidextrousTotal Length: 270mmEdge Length: 136mmSpine Length: 148mmBlade Height: 26mmThickness at Spine: 1.7mmThickness ½ way...




strata-portland.myshopify.com


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