# King stone info



## mpukas (Jan 4, 2013)

I've seen at least a few different models of King stones floating aorund - Deluxe, Ice Bear, Hyper, plain 'ole King brand - but I can't find any info anywhere on what's what. 

Does anyone have any info on the different stones King sells? 

I don't even have any King stones myself, but when people ask me for a recomendation, it's usually what I tell people to start with. I figure since I'm slinging their name around, I should at least have them myself. I'm just not sure which ones to get. Cheers! mpp


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## Dave Martell (Jan 4, 2013)

http://www.matsunaga-corp.co.jp/index2.html


_

FYI - IceBear is a rebranding name that's also found on Kitayama and other make stones brought into the US by an importer._


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## franzb69 (Jan 5, 2013)

the hyper is their higher end stuff afaik.

=D


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## gentlecook (Jan 5, 2013)

franzb69 said:


> the hyper is their higher end stuff afaik.
> =D


true +1


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## franzb69 (Jan 5, 2013)

from the descriptions on the hyper, they're less likely to dish and more aggressive cutters.


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## JBroida (Jan 5, 2013)

hyper dishes pretty fast


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## mpukas (Jan 5, 2013)

Thnx. 

What about Ice Bear vs Deluxe - are they same type of stones or different? Splash-n-go or soaker? Fast or slow cutting? Fast or slow dishing?


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## franzb69 (Jan 5, 2013)

i stand corrected =D


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## Dave Martell (Jan 5, 2013)

mpukas said:


> Thnx.
> 
> What about Ice Bear vs Deluxe - are they same type of stones or different? Splash-n-go or soaker? Fast or slow cutting? Fast or slow dishing?




IceBear is just an importer name that they slap on stones. This name isn't a King type of stone whereas Deluxe is.


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## mpukas (Jan 5, 2013)

Dave Martell said:


> IceBear is just an importer name that they slap on stones. This name isn't a King type of stone whereas Deluxe is.



Thanks Dave, that makes sense. But what are the IceBear stones like compared to the Deluxe stones? Are they the same stones with different names, or different stones all together?


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## Dave Martell (Jan 5, 2013)

mpukas said:


> Thanks Dave, that makes sense. But what are the IceBear stones like compared to the Deluxe stones? Are they the same stones with different names, or different stones all together?




It's likely that Matsunuga (King) or the importer just slaps a Deluxe stone into an IceBear box. Depends on what the importer wants.


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## Dave Martell (Jan 5, 2013)

Also, as I mentioned before, Ice Bear sells Kitayama and many others relabeled.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 7, 2013)

I used a big brick as my medium stone for yrs. at work.I am sure it was a King,because I got it fr.Cherry Japanese Imports,same place I bought my Masamoto gyuto's over the yrs.Cherry sells the King Deluxe for 28.00.I still have my massive old brick 9.5"x4"X2.75" thick.I stopped using it when I discovered Bester's.

I still reccom the King for someone on tight spending just getting into freehand,however I encourage them to spend an extra 20.00 & get a Bester.


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## ChiliPepper (Jan 7, 2013)

Not 100% sure but I've heard somewhere that the brand Sun Tiger is also a rebranded King


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## mpukas (Jan 7, 2013)

keithsaltydog said:


> I used a big brick as my medium stone for yrs. at work.I am sure it was a King,because I got it fr.Cherry Japanese Imports,same place I bought my Masamoto gyuto's over the yrs.Cherry sells the King Deluxe for 28.00.I still have my massive old brick 9.5"x4"X2.75" thick.I stopped using it when I discovered Bester's.
> 
> I still reccom the King for someone on tight spending just getting into freehand,however I encourage them to spend an extra 20.00 & get a Bester.



I did a sharpening seminar/session at a retaurant recently, and the chef had a massive red brick - literally the size of a real building brick. It was super muddy and cut fairly quickly. Didn't seem like it needed to be soaked. I was wondering if it was the XL King 1000.


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## wsfarrell (Jan 7, 2013)

JBroida said:


> hyper dishes pretty fast



IME it doesn't dish as nearly as fast as the Deluxe. Also, it's complicated. There are relatively soft stones that do their work so quickly that they don't have a chance to dish. Stu Tierney did a nicely controlled test of this on 14 stones, including King Hyper, Deluxe and Neo, here.

Here are his conclusions on the Hyper:

Another fly in the ointment is the King Hyper. While it sits solidly on the right side of the graph, the amount of observed dishing and follow up strokes is quite low. Why is that? Again, theres a logical explanation. The King Hyper is made of similar stuff as the hard, ceramic stones but in a softer binder so it does spend itself to get the work done quickly. However, because the abrasive is quite tough and high quality, whats being shed and left on the stone is still working very hard and not spent as it might be if the abrasive used was less durable.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 10, 2013)

mpukas said:


> I did a sharpening seminar/session at a retaurant recently, and the chef had a massive red brick - literally the size of a real building brick. It was super muddy and cut fairly quickly. Didn't seem like it needed to be soaked. I was wondering if it was the XL King 1000.



Probably a King,It was my main stone for yrs.Yes it is a soaker,I usually soaked half hour before end of my shift.


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## Schtoo (Jan 10, 2013)

franzb69 said:


> i stand corrected =D



Don't be so hasty.

There are two different King Hyper, one soft like the Deluxe, another quite a bit harder and more dish resistant. Chances are, you may have the hard and John has used the soft. 

It's confusing because the 'hard' is actually labelled as 'normal' IIRC, but the soft is clearly marked as 'soft'.

In my experience and testing, the hard Hyper is not particularly hard, but compares favorably with a Naniwa Superstone 1K, is a lot faster and more capable but they're a little pricy for what you're actually getting. Not bad, but not great.

Stu.


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## franzb69 (Jan 10, 2013)

alrighty =D 

thanks.


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## mpukas (Jan 13, 2013)

King offers an 800, 1,000, & 1,200 - all seemingly very close in grit range. Anyone any better/worse than another? I can possibly see using the 800 as a coarse stone, and the 1,200 as a medium grit stone. 

Also - are the Bester equivalents really worth the extra cost?


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## mpukas (Jan 13, 2013)

keithsaltydog said:


> Probably a King,It was my main stone for yrs.Yes it is a soaker,I usually soaked half hour before end of my shift.



thanks for the info. 

Could it be one of the red brick stones being discussed in the other thread? mpp


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## franzb69 (Jan 14, 2013)

> Also - are the Bester equivalents really worth the extra cost?



in my opinion, yes. 

with the exception of the king hyper model (the harder kind)......


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