# 5-6k synth?



## madmotts (Jul 9, 2021)

I’m thinking about my synth stones and I’d like to add some variation to my set up. I think Id like a Rika alternate. Not really into > 5k stones unless it’s going to make a massive difference. Here’s where I’m at without stones below 800.

shapton pro 1k
Chosera 1k
Kohetsu 800
Nanohone 1k

nubatama plat 2k
Shapton pro 2k
Kohetsu 2k
KorinMizuyama 3k

rika 5k
nanohone 6k

Suehiro 10k

diamond emulsion 1nm, 0.5nm


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## Qapla' (Jul 9, 2021)

What steels are the knives that you are sharpening?


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Jul 9, 2021)

A little under budget, but how about these for a 5k-6k synth?








Waldorf Quantum 8-Voice Analog/Digital Hybrid Synthesizer


Buy Waldorf Quantum 8-Voice Analog/Digital Hybrid Synthesizer featuring 61-Key Fatar TP8 Keybed, 8-Voices + Multitimbrality, Three Digital Oscillators per Voice, Four Synthesis Algorithms per Oscillator, Wavetable Creation, Two Analog Low-Pass Filters per Voice, Color Multitouch Display, 6 LFOs...




www.bhphotovideo.com





lol anyway
Recommendations are:
Gesshin 6k (haven't heard so many pleasant things about the Gesshin 5k  Gesshin 5k is no longer made rip)
Kitayama 8k

Then
Arashiyama 6k/Takenoko 8k
Gesshin 4k (if you want something slightly higher but remain unconvinced to go above the rika)


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## madmotts (Jul 9, 2021)

Qapla' said:


> What steels are the knives that you are sharpening?



Yeah good question- in order wh1, b2, wh2, skd and sld. Got others in singular representation.


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## Qapla' (Jul 9, 2021)

madmotts said:


> Yeah good question- in order wh1, b2, wh2, skd and sld. Got others in singular representation.



What do you think of the Morihei 6k?


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## branwell (Jul 9, 2021)

My favorite high grit finisher is the King 8K Gold. Its splash and go, fast, and leaves a super keen edge that has surprising bite for its grit rating, way more than stones like the Nubatama Bamboo 5k, SG 6k, Arashiyama 6k. If you are looking for aggression in a high grit finisher, might consider that.


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## inferno (Jul 9, 2021)

madmotts said:


> I’m thinking about my synth stones and I’d like to add some variation to my set up. I think Id like a Rika alternate. Not really into > 5k stones unless it’s going to make a massive difference. Here’s where I’m at without stones below 800.
> 
> shapton pro 1k
> Chosera 1k
> ...



glass 4 or 6k. you wont be disappointed with these!


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## JBroida (Jul 9, 2021)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> A little under budget, but how about these for a 5k-6k synth?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


we haven't produced the 5k in literally years


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## Benuser (Jul 9, 2021)

Naniwa Junpaku 'Snow-white' 8k. Refinement with a good bite.


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## madmotts (Jul 9, 2021)

Oh damn. I forgot i bought a nanohone 6k (added to list). Still... Here are my musings.

The snow white can be bought with a even tho the picture is a shrimp/prawn.

The kitayama may/not come with a base (confusing). Furthermore I don't need a booster to sharpen my knife. Also referred to as a Kity 

The KING 8k amazon listing is odd. It's listed as Tokyo Design Studio and the color "silver". Maybe i might lean towards this to make my mother happy with more "traditional japanese culture".

*Features traditional japanese culture*
*Ideal DIY product*
Gesshin 6k is a "soaker", I lean towards S&G, but could be open to it. Maybe if i'm looking at 8k too, is the Gesshin 8k way better (way more expensive too)?

Morihei 6k- Ivan likes it, so it must be good,. There is nothing funny about it. the video is very serious.


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## Qapla' (Jul 9, 2021)

madmotts said:


> Morihei 6k- Ivan likes it, so it must be good,. There is nothing funny about it. the video is very serious.


It's available significantly cheaper at Carbon Knife Co. What video do you refer to?


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## zizirex (Jul 10, 2021)

madmotts said:


> Morihei 6k- Ivan likes it, so it must be good,. There is nothing funny about it. the video is very serious.


+1 
my all-time fav finisher grit.


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## zizirex (Jul 10, 2021)

Qapla' said:


> It's available significantly cheaper at Carbon Knife Co. What video do you refer to?


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## Garm (Jul 10, 2021)

I agree with @branwell here. The King 8k G1 was the first finishing stone I ever bought years ago, and after trying a bunch of others it still remains my most used high grit stone. I get way better edges(both keen and agressive) with it than any other stone I've tried in the 5-10k range(Arashiyama, Kitayama, Shaptons, Naniwas, etc.)


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## Jurrian (Jul 10, 2021)

I think all the mentioned stones are great. The ground work on the 1-3 k range will determine how well a +5k stone will let jou get your knife to hair popping sharp. It can also be done on a 1k. But steel and timewise not the best idea. If you can do that, it doesn’t really matter what +5k stone you need. Jnats are the next step


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## KingShapton (Jul 10, 2021)

Jurrian said:


> I think all the mentioned stones are great. The ground work on the 1-3 k range will determine how well a +5k stone will let jou get your knife to hair popping sharp. It can also be done on a 1k. But steel and timewise not the best idea. If you can do that, it doesn’t really matter what +5k stone you need. Jnats are the next step


I don't want to start a "religious war", but here a reader can easily get the impression that Jnats are the only real thing when someone wants a really sharp knife ... and that's not right. There are also good natural whetstones outside of Japan and regardless, many people prefer a finish in the 4-6K range, some even significantly lower.

There are so many ways to sharpen and finish a knife that you just can't generalize, everyone finds their own way.


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## Jurrian (Jul 10, 2021)

KingShapton said:


> I don't want to start a "religious war", but here a reader can easily get the impression that Jnats are the only real thing when someone wants a really sharp knife ... and that's not right. There are also good natural whetstones outside of Japan and regardless, many people prefer a finish in the 4-6K range, some even significantly lower.
> 
> There are so many ways to sharpen and finish a knife that you just can't generalize, everyone finds their own way.



totally agree. I get razorsharp knives both jnats and synthetic. It’s just another feel, natural, you can smell the stone, the mud, it polished differently. No use starting any religious war. As a pro sharpener I just have a lot of stones. Or should I say, my customers finance my addiction


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## SolidSnake03 (Jul 10, 2021)

I used A LOT of stones in this range (like basically everything from JNS, JKI, Carbon Knives, All the Shaptons Pro and Glass, Chosera, and more) and my current favorites and ones I'm greatly enjoying at below. Happy to comment more on any one in particular you would like to know more about. Haven't tried the King 8k but feel like I need to now.

*Morihei 6k
Morihei 9k Karasu* (my current favorite high end finisher, leaves a very useable edge and fairly toothy, wrote about this in another post but basically this is one of the few stones in this range that I can actually get a useable edge out of on knives with excellent heat treat. I can put this edge on a TF petty or a Murata gyuto and whack on it for hours and it's still cutting well, can't say that about too many other edges in this realm in terms of stability and tooth. Leaves a slightly hazy finish still on the cladding with a close to/mirror on the core if you work it and let it load a bit)
*Kitayama 8k?* (finishes more mirror polish and higher than you think, beautifully polished edge, still a slight bit of tooth for all around use but seems to lose it fast compared to the Karasu, mirror finish all around, cladding and core I've gotten mirror finishes on, not good for hazy or contrast. Seems to benefit more from a larger jump like a 2k to Kitayam or something to help keep more tooth on the edge vs. the Karasu which works great coming from the 6k stone.)


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## madmotts (Jul 10, 2021)

@SolidSnake03 I'm leaning towards an 8k, but how would you compare the Morihei 6k to the Nanohone 6k (forgotten & found yesterday...)?


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## SolidSnake03 (Jul 10, 2021)

Good question, I have owned most all the Nanohone stuff as well, not too much of the Diamond Matrix but all the regular stuff and the flattening plates. The Nanohone 6k finishes above its grit to me and it’s a more smooth 6k stone. It’s more likely to lead to slightly over polished edge. I’ve not had that happen at all on the Morihei. I find the Morihei better for edge tooth and leaving more contrast in steels. The Nanohone is more shiny mirror type polish and seems to erase some contrast. Reminds me a lot of the higher grit shaptons regarding the erasing polish part.

If it was me I’d get the Morihei every time out of the two unless you are looking for something that polishes really well and you want smoother edges like a Yanagi but really for everything else the Morihei is more useful all around.


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## crockerculinary (Jul 10, 2021)

I’m no expert on stones, especially not high grit, but Gesshin 6k splash & go is the jam, with the caveat that they recommend soaking it. My guess is it would be great unsoaked as well, but I never tried it that way. Mine has been soaking for more than a year and a half now and it’s been amazing.


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## rocketman (Jul 11, 2021)

So years ago, at least 20, but who can remember all of those trips, I was in a knife shop next door to the Tokyo Fish Market..
Being a virgin , I bought a mid range single bevel, and the owner took it in the back, and put an edge on it, with a stone, 
did not resort to the giant stone in the water trough. I asked about a sharpening stone, and he had all kinds of Jnat, and then 
synthetics. Of course all of this was discussed with hand signals, as my Japanese is nil.. He told me not to bother with the jnat,
and go for the synthetic. 
Could have been he thought is a sacrilege to sell a jnat to a novice, virgin.


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## Jurrian (Jul 11, 2021)

rocketman said:


> So years ago, at least 20, but who can remember all of those trips, I was in a knife shop next door to the Tokyo Fish Market..
> Being a virgin , I bought a mid range single bevel, and the owner took it in the back, and put an edge on it, with a stone,
> did not resort to the giant stone in the water trough. I asked about a sharpening stone, and he had all kinds of Jnat, and then
> synthetics. Of course all of this was discussed with hand signals, as my Japanese is nil.. He told me not to bother with the jnat,
> ...


That certainly was his thought. In the end all that matters is a sharp knife, no wire edge. Both ways will work fine if you know what you’re doing.


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## daveb (Jul 11, 2021)

IIRC synthetics were developed for Pro knife makers to get more efficient results than nats provide. More consistent, work faster, etc.

Hard to beat G2K, G4K, for gyuto, G2K, G6K for suji for a soaker lineup.
Shapton for S&G lineup.


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## adam92 (Jul 11, 2021)

I have the Arashiyama 6k & naniwa snow white 8k, I tried my friend morihei 9k karasu, for the edge I prefer naniwa snow white 8k, toothy edge & speed much better compare with others two.


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## Jurrian (Jul 12, 2021)

Haven’t tried the morihei, don’t like the araashiyama that much. I also like the snowwhite very much.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jul 12, 2021)

adam92 said:


> I have the Arashiyama 6k & naniwa snow white 8k, I tried my friend morihei 9k karasu, for the edge I prefer naniwa snow white 8k, toothy edge & speed much better compare with others two.




Had the Snow White a while back, I like it and liked it then but mine had cracking issues despite it being used only at home and thoroughly babied. How do you find the finish that it leaves compared to Morihei on stuff like wide bevels? I did like the tooth and the edge that stone provided but I can’t seem to remember the finish on it it. I think it was more mirror without a lot of contrast or haze but I could be wrong?


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## jwthaparc (Jul 12, 2021)

I'll throw my opinion in too I guess. 

The kitayama. It does a great job. What the others have said about it is true. Still has bite. It does give a (near) mirror polish. 

I will actually add that, what you may be looking for is naturals. Synthetics, as varied as they may be will still give quite a similar edge to other synthetics. Naturals, seem to give (at least me) something different to my edges. 

You won't get better results, just different ones.


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## Jurrian (Jul 12, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I'll throw my opinion in too I guess.
> 
> The kitayama. It does a great job. What the others have said about it is true. Still has bite. It does give a (near) mirror polish.
> 
> ...


And this answer supports the idea that there is no truth. I like what you say about different results, so true. Tknx for this insight.


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## jwthaparc (Jul 12, 2021)

Jurrian said:


> And this answer supports the idea that there is no truth. I like what you say about different results, so true. Tknx for this insight.


No problem. Good luck on the search for the next stone!


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## Jurrian (Jul 12, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> No problem. Good luck on the search for the next stone!


 Tknx


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## adam92 (Jul 12, 2021)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Had the Snow White a while back, I like it and liked it then but mine had cracking issues despite it being used only at home and thoroughly babied. How do you find the finish that it leaves compared to Morihei on stuff like wide bevels? I did like the tooth and the edge that stone provided but I can’t seem to remember the finish on it it. I think it was more mirror without a lot of contrast or haze but I could be wrong?


My snow white have the spider web cracking issue as well, but doesn't effect the sharpening . After I seal the non sharpening surface, now is fine. 

Snow white speed is much better than morihei, & yes. Is mirror finish without contract, but heeps of bite compare to morihei.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jul 12, 2021)

Looks like I’ll have to try a Snow White again  given how much I enjoy my Karasu. The lack of finish may be a deal breaker or reason I keep both


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## daveb (Jul 12, 2021)

I see another sale coming......


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## adam92 (Jul 12, 2021)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Looks like I’ll have to try a Snow White again  given how much I enjoy my Karasu. The lack of finish may be a deal breaker or reason I keep both


If you gonna get Snow White again, I suggest you seal the non sharpening surface to prevent spider web cracking issue.


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## SolidSnake03 (Jul 13, 2021)

Great suggestion on that! Thanks


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## da_mich* (Jul 18, 2021)

I`m collecting stones and tryed much stones at this grit range. In my opinion the Rika 5k is one of the best stones. Maybe it´s the best stone. It´s not necessary to replace him. But this is only my opinion.


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## madmotts (Aug 5, 2021)

Finally had a chance to dabble with the King (Gold) 8k G1. Per glowing comments by @branwell and @Garm. I'm really digging it- Interesting stone. I was expecting it to glide like a piece of glass (like my 10k suehiro), but theres a hint of grit and sorta of feels like a 5k type stone as you slide your blade across it. There's no mudd only swarf. it left a nice toothy edge that felt dangerously sharp. I did 3 knives 2k to 8k. Curious to see how much a 5k before the 8k matters. Glad i bought it. 

Oh and the stone separated from the stand with a little bit of prying. there's some blobs of glue, but i don't think i'll mess with it.


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## branwell (Aug 5, 2021)

madmotts said:


> I'm really digging it- Interesting stone.


Glad you are liking it. 

If you haven't, try it with a little slurry. I use one of those small blue dmt plates ( 320 grit ish ) or a chunk of Aoto, but anything you have will do


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## madmotts (Nov 3, 2021)

3 months later with moderate use on a few projects. The king 6k is a great stone. I’m glad I bought it. I do a quick run under the water and atoma flattening, just enough to get some cream going (lol). Softish feel, swarf gets going fast, nice bite.

I just revisited my rika 5k. Thirsty, thirsty stone takes over 15mins of soak -maybe 30? So creamy and muddy but damn if it ain’t great if you’re into sloppy mud. Nice bite and for whatever reason I can get it a hint more prickly over the King 6k. Yeah I’m sure it’s technique.

I still towards the rika but the presoak is a working problem and there’s a firmer feedback with the king 6k. Perma soak is a no go for me. Both really nice inexpensive synths.


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## Jovidah (Nov 3, 2021)

Perhaps a bit redundant since it's an old thread... but with my limited sample of a Naniwa Pro/Chosera 5k and an Arashiyama 6k I vastly preferred the latter. I like my NP 1k and 3k, but the 5k is quite different. Dries out a lot, feels gummy. It works quite okay when you soak it, but since it's a magnesium stone you're not supposed to, because it'll get these spiderweb cracks (which mine did). 
The Arashiyama works much better and is far more usable as a real splash and go stone.


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