# Katana



## CB1968 (Jul 11, 2015)

Just picked this up from a good friend, any idea on legitimacy and era??


----------



## XooMG (Jul 11, 2015)

Tourist item, likely Chinese-made.


----------



## 420layersofdank (Jul 11, 2015)

XooMG said:


> Tourist item, likely Chinese-made.



Really? That sword looks legit. Most Chinese knockoffs don't have the damascus looking pattern but this one actually looks like a patinaed shig kitaeji. Right?


----------



## XooMG (Jul 11, 2015)

420layersofdank said:


> Really? That sword looks legit. Most Chinese knockoffs don't have the damascus looking pattern but this one actually looks like a patinaed shig kitaeji. Right?


Yes, Chinese pieces have the gaudy damascus patterning and the poor geometry and the mediocre leatherwork on fake gunto mountings.

Sorry.


----------



## CB1968 (Jul 11, 2015)

XooMG said:


> Yes, Chinese pieces have the gaudy damascus patterning and the poor geometry and the mediocre leatherwork on fake gunto mountings.
> 
> Sorry.



There is nothing gaudy about the Damascus patterning and the geometry is not poor, this was purchased approx 15 years ago from an antique shop in Japan, the scabbard is also very well made, the serial numbers make me believe that this may be an officers kit from the Second World War? 
It is also very well made and heavy, the Damascus reminds me very much of a Shig Kitaeji.


----------



## XooMG (Jul 11, 2015)

CB1968 said:


> There is nothing gaudy about the Damascus patterning and the geometry is not poor, this was purchased approx 15 years ago from an antique shop in Japan, the scabbard is also very well made, the serial numbers make me believe that this may be an officers kit from the Second World War?
> It is also very well made and heavy, the Damascus reminds me very much of a Shig Kitaeji.


It is not Japanese in origin. Pakistan and India also sometimes make replicas like these, but China has been most responsible for them in the last few decades.


----------



## dough (Jul 11, 2015)

I personally have no idea about these things but if you would like to check with someone that might on a different forum. you can try knifedogs forum (i hope this isnt a no-no to recommend) but the member in particular is bubba-san. I have no reason to doubt XooMG but just another option for you to consider.

goodluck


----------



## jklip13 (Jul 12, 2015)

Sorry to be blunt, but this is not a Japanese sword


----------



## MAS4T0 (Jul 12, 2015)

Hi David,

Try posting on the NMB (Nihonto Message Board), you'll receive a definitive answer.
http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/index.php?showtopic=

Unfortunately, it doesn't look authentic to me. There is no hamon, the blade has been etched, and the condition of the blade relative to the fittings would indicate that they have been artificially aged.

The damascus like pattern does look like a modern made Chinese blade, it is far more coarse grained than the hada of a Nihonto. I may be mistaken, but it seems to be a replica of a type 98 Gunto. 

If it was definitely purchased in Japan then it is somewhat odd, all swords in Japan have to be registered in order to be legal to own and only Japanese made blades can be registered. There should have been paperwork with the sword when it was purchased. If the blade was purchased in Japan then it would mean that it is either:
A) an authentic Japanese blade
B) an illegal blade which was imported illegally and sold illegally
C) a Mogito (imitation sword) not a Shinken (live blade) and therefore not bound by the legislation

Is the blade sharp?

I know that pattern is similar to what you'd see on a Japanese damascus knife, but the grain on a Nihonto is far finer. If you're curious I can take and upload a photo showing the pattern of my Nihonto, with a Japanese damascus kitchen knife alongside for reference.


----------



## Asteger (Jul 13, 2015)

Sorry also to be on the anti-authenticity side. I don't know about katana, but just looking at the engraving... Is it common to engrave kanji on katana like it is with kitchen knives? I'm not sure.

At any rate, a proud maker would be even less likely to engrave in hiragana instead of kanji, which is what's been used, and it only says 'Toyota' and so sounds dubiously generic. Worse, it looks about as well-styled as I could manage, which isn't saying much, maybe like a Japanese child leaning to write? and so doesn't look at all pro or done by a Japanese swordsmith, or like cheap Japanese restaurant signs you see outside of Japan or cheesy kanji tatooes done by someone far from Japan who obviously doesn't know what they're writing.


----------



## Dave Martell (Jul 13, 2015)

I am way far from being able to comment from a knowledgeable standpoint but I'll add that I too don't think this is Japanese, not compared to what I've previously seen. If someone can validate as authentic please let us know, I'd love to hear about it and maybe learn something.


----------



## TimoNieminen (Jul 13, 2015)

Asteger said:


> I don't know about katana, but just looking at the engraving... Is it common to engrave kanji on katana like it is with kitchen knives? I'm not sure.
> 
> At any rate, a proud maker would be even less likely to engrave in hiragana instead of kanji, which is what's been used, and it only says 'Toyota' and so sounds dubiously generic.



It isn't common, but it's been done. There are also antique examples with hiragana. But most of the writing I see in horimono (i.e., engravings on the blade) is in bonji. Most common is pictures, not text (dragon reaching for the pearl (often seen on modern cheap Chinese-made katana without the pearl), Fud&#333;-my&#333;&#333;, vajra, and straight double-edged swords are common).
Bonji: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhaṃ_script

An antique example with hiragana:






An antique example with kanji:




http://www.nihonto.ca/hiromasa/

For a nice example of bonji horimono, and how to tell fake from real: http://www.jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html

The one under discussion here is fake, without doubt. The over-etched folded pattern is characteristic of modern Chinese-made fakes, and unlike the pattern (hada) seen in Japanese katana.


----------



## CB1968 (Jul 14, 2015)

Thanks for everyone's input, I think it is fairly obvious that it is a fake, it has been interesting and I have learnt quite a bit about Japanese swords.
Once again thanks to all the knowledgeable people who have made comments.


----------



## Keith Sinclair (Jul 17, 2015)

You must have a Japanese Sword Society Down under. Take it to those guys and prepare for the worst. As mentioned most older Japanese swords must be registered. However even the paperwork is sometimes fake. I know the Japanese sword society here has to deliver bad news to persons who bring in swords that are not as advertised.


----------

