# Watanabe Renge and Kuro Renge Maruoyama Shiro Suita



## Smashmasta (Nov 7, 2016)

Here's my review of my new Maru shiro suita. It's a mouthful of a complete title. Shinichi-san labeled it as having both black and 'regular' renge (which I guess the default color is red. Anyone know if that's the case?). I don't really see any black renge, but a lot of orange with a red tint. There's also some beautiful red momiji (again, does anyone know if the default color is red, ie, when a stone is labeled as having momiji without a specific color mentioned, is it being implied that it's red?).
Anyways, it's beautiful. A Maru shiro suita has been one of my grails for awhile. Definitely splurged on it, even with the generous discount Shinichi-san gives. I've heard lots of good things about Maruoyamas - they're fast, perfectly practical sharpness, generally easy to use, and IMO, are some of the most beautiful stones. 

For this stone, I would agree with all of the above, except in this case, mine is not fast unless you whip up a slurry. Shinichi-san had it rated at a 6. I think it's way harder, more like an 8 (in my limited experience). I was initially bummed about the need to stir up a slurry, as I was hoping the the words of a super fast maru coming true in my case. BUT, once you get a slurry, things do go fast. And the edge gets SCARY sharp. I actually cut myself (just a little booboo) for the first time in months while inspecting the edge. Sharpest edge of gotten so far on my lineup. I think this also reinforces my view that it's harder than rated (although you can obviously get sharp with some softer stones). It also provides a visible, but very fine scratch pattern (couldn't capture it with the crappy phone camera).

THOUGHTS: In the end it's a great stone. I'm not 100% happy with it given the discrepancy between what it was rated, and what I think it is, and given how much it is, you'd want to be 100% happy. I wish it was just a tad bit softer so it would whip up a slurry without a nagura. I'm not saying I'm unhappy with it, but sometimes you win completely, sometimes you lose completely, and sometimes you get a stone in between. That's the danger of not trying a stone before buying, which for many of us, is impossible. I'm sure I'll figure it out a bit more as time goes on, and I really like the edge. Shinichi-san is really easy to work with, and all of his stuff so far has been quality. So if you want to splurge on a maru from him, I'd say go for it. If you're concerned about hardness, you can ask for the softest he has.

PROS: Beautiful, provides a stellar edge, fast and fine once you get a slurry going (for this stone)
CONS: Expensive. This stone requires slurry, from either atoma, or other nagura/ really hard. 

Sharpening a Zakuri blue 2 gyuto with tomo slurry from an atoma (sorry but the wife still has the nice camera):


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## bennyprofane (Nov 7, 2016)

Thank you for the review! It seems that your Maru is quite different than mine. Mine is fast, it starts removing steel the moment you start sharpening on it, and develops a little bit of thin slurry quite fast.

I guess, I was lucky. When I wrote Shinichi how much I liked it, this is what he replied:

"Yes, your Maruo is the finest which I have seen. You should keep. 
I had test sharpening at your stone. Then all stamps were removed. So I brought it my business trip to the mine in Kyoto. 
I remember, the miner was surprised during grasping his stone again. He said "This stone is amazing good." He is proud of your stone."


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## aboynamedsuita (Nov 7, 2016)

Thanks for reviewing Smash, was yours the 6 figure (jpy) one on sale?

I got one of these and am looking forward to it




It has a namazu but not as much as Benny's


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## ynot1985 (Nov 7, 2016)

did you guys buy all the maru shiro suitas. I was eyeing one and then it's all sold out. I guess i'll just get myself an ohira and nakayama then



tjangula said:


> Thanks for reviewing Smash, was yours the 6 figure (jpy) one on sale?
> 
> I got one of these and am looking forward to it
> 
> ...


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## Smashmasta (Nov 7, 2016)

tjangula said:


> Thanks for reviewing Smash, was yours the 6 figure (jpy) one on sale?
> 
> I got one of these and am looking forward to it
> 
> ...



Yes, it was one of the 6 figure ones, but thankfully with Shinichi-san's discount, it was less.


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## Smashmasta (Nov 7, 2016)

Smashmasta said:


> Yes, it was one of the 6 figure ones, but thankfully with Shinichi-san's discount, it was less.





ynot1985 said:


> did you guys buy all the maru shiro suitas. I was eyeing one and then it's all sold out. I guess i'll just get myself an ohira and nakayama then



Yeah, they're all gone. I would get number 5 on this page. It's GORGEOUS :bigeek: and softer, but too expensive, especially since I got the maru shiro already
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone.htm


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## Smashmasta (Nov 7, 2016)

Smashmasta said:


> Yes, it was one of the 6 figure ones, but thankfully with Shinichi-san's discount, it was less.





bennyprofane said:


> Thank you for the review! It seems that your Maru is quite different than mine. Mine is fast, it starts removing steel the moment you start sharpening on it, and develops a little bit of thin slurry quite fast.
> 
> I guess, I was lucky. When I wrote Shinichi how much I liked it, this is what he replied:
> 
> ...



That's what I was hoping for. I mean I still really like mine. It's a tad bit softer than my okudo and ohira suitas, so it still fits a small niche in my lineup, I was just hoping for slightly softer. Still happy to have it, and they're all lookers :groucho:


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## Smashmasta (Nov 7, 2016)

Smashmasta said:


> Yes, it was one of the 6 figure ones, but thankfully with Shinichi-san's discount, it was less.





ynot1985 said:


> did you guys buy all the maru shiro suitas. I was eyeing one and then it's all sold out. I guess i'll just get myself an ohira and nakayama then



Ynot - I'm almost positive Shinichi-san buys from Tsuchihashi-san at Totoriya, which he digs himself. Basically everything they have is from Maruoyama.

http://toishi.jp/


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## bennyprofane (Nov 7, 2016)

Smashmasta said:


> Ynot - I'm almost positive Shinichi-san buys from Tsuchihashi-san at Totoriya, which he digs himself. Basically everything they have is from Maruoyama.
> 
> http://toishi.jp/



Wow, they have some nice stones! Love how the google browser translates some of the stone names: "Laying in the Cloudy". Just what I always wanted.

I'll try to take a video sharpening on my stone so you can compare to yours. Been meaning to make a video of the Watanabe AI 220 for panda, too. :whistling:


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## Smashmasta (Nov 7, 2016)

Smashmasta said:


> Yes, it was one of the 6 figure ones, but thankfully with Shinichi-san's discount, it was less.





bennyprofane said:


> Wow, they have some nice stones! Love how the google browser translates some of the stone names: "Laying in the Cloudy". Just what I always wanted.
> 
> I'll try to take a video sharpening on my stone so you can compare to yours. Been meaning to make a video of the Watanabe AI 220 for panda, too. :whistling:



I was just going to ask you if you could make a video. I just tried out my shobu tomae from MM and it's pretty much amazing - like almost exactly what I thought my maru was going to be like. I'll put up a review. Makes me feel much better to realize how good a deal the shobu was. Like I said, you win some you lose some (although I don't think I lost with the maru, just doesn't sound like the one you got, and I think it was upon seeing pics of yours that made me go out and get mine, haha).


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## bennyprofane (Nov 7, 2016)

The Shobu is definitely softer and muddier (at least mine is), the Maru's slurry is very little and watery, definitely a much harder and finer stone.


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## Badgertooth (Nov 8, 2016)

bennyprofane said:


> The Shobu is definitely softer and muddier (at least mine is), the Maru's slurry is very little and watery, definitely a much harder and finer stone.



There's a little trick, as mine starts like yours. That slurry sometimes seems like it's going nowhere. Use slightly less water, a few drops at first. Lower your knife angle so that a bigger bit of surface area behind the edge is hitting the stone. Start to work it until it thickens, then add to it little by little with water as you build it up. The mud formation then gains momentum and you'll soon have ample mud, then it gets fast.


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## Krakorak (Nov 8, 2016)

I didn't read your review yet, just the title - but I knew it was YOU who bought that stone! I was also interested and Shinichi kindly offered a big discount for me, it was still in stock when I found that discount, I knew you posted a thread that you are looking for a maruo suita exactly at that time, so that it might a bit risky business to ask first, wanted to buy it the next morning after reading his answer...but he wrote "its already on the way to New York"...so I looked at your profile, where are you from...no suprisingly NY:-D...But I am not dissapointed by any means, got another Maruo suita from him two days later..its justy funny..

Now I can read the review, finally..


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## Smashmasta (Nov 8, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> There's a little trick, as mine starts like yours. That slurry sometimes seems like it's going nowhere. Use slightly less water, a few drops at first. Lower your knife angle so that a bigger bit of surface area behind the edge is hitting the stone. Start to work it until it thickens, then add to it little by little with water as you build it up. The mud formation then gains momentum and you'll soon have ample mud, then it gets fast.



I'll definitely try this out. Benny doesn't need any advice - his stone already has superpowers haha 



Krakorak said:


> I didn't read your review yet, just the title - but I knew it was YOU who bought that stone! I was also interested and Shinichi kindly offered a big discount for me, it was still in stock when I found that discount, I knew you posted a thread that you are looking for a maruo suita exactly at that time, so that it might a bit risky business to ask first, wanted to buy it the next morning after reading his answer...but he wrote "its already on the way to New York"...so I looked at your profile, where are you from...no suprisingly NY:-D...But I am not dissapointed by any means, got another Maruo suita from him two days later..its justy funny..
> 
> Now I can read the review, finally..



Haha, yeah sorry about that. I got mine after strong remarks from Benny. Yours looks great, too. Let us know how it turns out.


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## bennyprofane (Nov 8, 2016)

Here is my video: https://vid.me/wK4L - note that I haven't focused on properly sharpening in that vid and only wanted to quickly demonstrate the stone.

The video displays in low quality by default, press the settings wheel to set better quality.

Badger is right, it takes a moment to kickstart. Also, I am not sure what you compare your stone to but a finisher always removes less metal than mid grit stone as it's job is not to shape the edge but refine and polish it. My Shobu is probably much faster than my Maru. My first jnat, an Ohira Renge Suita from MM seems to be removing no metal (much slower than my Ohira Suita from Watanabe) at all but it still makes an amazing sharp edge and I still use it. As you can see the stamps on my stone are still there, I haven't been using it that much, just because I have been trying out other stones which came after it and I haven't been sharpening that much. No need when the knives are sharp. 

Curious to know if you expected more from my stone.


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## Badgertooth (Nov 8, 2016)

bennyprofane said:


> Here is my video: https://vid.me/wK4L - note that I haven't focused on properly sharpening in that vid and only wanted to quickly demonstrate the stone.
> 
> The video displays in low quality by default, press the settings wheel to set better quality.
> 
> ...



Benny, that was genius as we now have a yardstick. Mine acts exactly the same with the same amount of water. And I bet it would kick up mud quicker if you build up to that amount of water from a dryer start and work behind the edge


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## Smashmasta (Nov 8, 2016)

Guess that means I have to submit a video. If I can recall correctly (since yesterday was sooo long ago), that mine is still slower, but maybe not to the degree I suspected. It could be that I just have to adjust my speed expectations for it. Combined with the tip of starting with less water, things could certainly change. Again, still like it, just not as 'fast' as suspected. I was assuming more of the shobu tomae speed that we touched on yesterday, but it makes sense it wouldn't be that fast as it's harder. Did Shinichi-san grade yours as a 6 (not that such a review is the ultimate word)? If so, what would you rate it as?

Thanks, Benny. Good work.


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## bennyprofane (Nov 8, 2016)

He rated it a 7, I guess it's right, it's a bit softer than an Ohira Suita but harder than the Shobu.


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## Smashmasta (Nov 8, 2016)

bennyprofane said:


> He rated it a 7, I guess it's right, it's a bit softer than an Ohira Suita but harder than the Shobu.



Meh, I guess one reason I was initially displeased was the fact that it was rated a 6, which is what I'd rate our Shobus. Can't get the ratings right every time, and should only be used as a guiding post. But since I still think mine is harder than yours, I would've rated it an 8. I'll get a video up tomorrow. Wife just got back with the good camera!


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## Badgertooth (Nov 8, 2016)

So for reference - Mine behaves exactly Bennyprofane's stone which is why I can't stress water management and bevel angles enough. See how the stone is only flecked with water to start with. Very soon things go black, work it until it almost seizes up and add another half spritz. Knife is thoroughly sharpened about a minute later.

https://youtu.be/lVI7sfz6e2A


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## Smashmasta (Nov 9, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> So for reference - Mine behaves exactly Bennyprofane's stone which is why I can't stress water management and bevel angles enough. See how the stone is only flecked with water to start with. Very soon things go black, work it until it almost seizes up and add another half spritz. Knife is thoroughly sharpened about a minute later.
> 
> https://youtu.be/lVI7sfz6e2A



Very good technique, badger. I'll attempt reenactment such expert technique when I try it tomorrow. 

Unfortunately, as an American, I'm a bit distracted with the wholly confusing and anxiety-inducing presidential race that is happening right now. If the terrible outcome that looks like might happen, I sincerely apologize to the rest of the world. I do not know anyone voting for trump, and I do not understand why the current polls show trump ahead. I'm in shock. Complete shock. My heart and chest are racing. 

I'm stunned. Absolutely stunned. At the least, I don't even know how this election result will affect trade among the world. 

If trump wins, I don't know what to say, or what to do. 

I'm embarrassed. Admins, if you need to remove this post, than do so. 

As an American, I apologize.


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## Smashmasta (Nov 9, 2016)

But also, both of your marus are definitely faster than mine. They look like exactly what I was hoping for. I'll attempt the badger/benny technique tomorrow and do an upload. That's as long as I have the willpower after tonight's absolute nightmare come true. Also, if the world doesn't end in nuclear disaster as well...


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## Nife (Nov 9, 2016)

I am one of the worst knife sharpeners on this forum. I too am very anxious about the Presidential race. America will be much safer if Trump wins. I have never shot a gun. I "celebrated" the impending Clinton victory by attending a CCW class today to be able to get a concealed carry permit. I somehow passed the loading the gun and shooting test and will go downtown tomorrow to submit my application to get my permit. If Trump would win, I will not purchase a hand gun. But if as expected Hillary wins, I may. 

In my opinion, I am creative, and a fairly good debater. In my younger days, I wrote a few comedy songs, and I wrote one today to help me get through this depressing day while at my 9 hour class: The tune is pretty good. Easy to write melody, lyrics tougher. 

Gonna get myself a gun.
I will have a little fun.
I will shoot it at the moon.
I may shoot a pigeon too.

Hillary is back in town.
Riots in the street again.
All the cops are standing down.
Gonna get myself a gun.

Borders open and they're here.
And they're on a looting spree.
Rapes and murders everywhere.
Now I got myself a gun.

I appreciate the expertise of the excellent posters and the information conveyed on this site and have enjoyed reading smashmasta's posts.


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## Krakorak (Nov 9, 2016)

Haha, yeah sorry about that. I got mine after strong remarks from Benny. Yours looks great, too. Let us know how it turns out.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I will! And I will also certainly take use of the advices regarding the proper use of the stone, thanks also from me!


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## Krakorak (Nov 9, 2016)

Sorry for the strange last post from me, the first line is part of an older post of Smashmasta I responded to...


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## Jacob_x (Nov 10, 2016)

Nice videos guys.
I remember when I got my maruo I had quite a bit of trouble with it, as couldn't manage the slurry well enough, and was much harder than I had expected, much like what you seem to be experiencing smash. Badgers technique seems to be spot on.
Will try and get a video up when they let me out of the kitchen!


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