# finishing at 1k?



## Goorackerelite (Jul 22, 2020)

I hear advice all the time on finishing on a 1K stone and then deburr for kitchen use. Is there any merit to this? I use a White #2 blade.


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## mise_en_place (Jul 22, 2020)

There's plenty of merit to this. Your mileage may vary, but a 1k edge is more than serviceable. Polishing beyond that point is not uncommon (2-5k), but going beyond 5k is usually done on knives that will be used for raw fish preparations. 

That is not to say people here and in kitchens not doing raw fish can't and won't polish their edges way past 1k. Find the edge that works best for you and your needs.


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## Brian Weekley (Jul 22, 2020)

I sharpen many knives for friends and relatives. Mostly these are generic Wustoff’s at best. Generally I will sharpen them from 400grit to a 800 or 1000 grit Chosera at a 20 degree plus angle. That’s it. The edges are satisfactorily sharp and have a nice edge that lasts a long time. My own knives and quality knives that come to me get a much different treatment at less than a 20 degree angle usually ending the progression at 5000 grit. I like to look at a polished edge but in truth anything beyond 3000 grit is, IMO, for appearances only in a kitchen knife. 1000 grit gives a fine working edge that’s easy to achieve and maintain.


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## ModRQC (Jul 22, 2020)

More of a slicer? Lots of butchery? You may like a 1K edge best.

More of a push cutter - push the grits, but if you go too high you'll eventually loose that initial feeling of readily biting into any kind of peel, skin or whatever.

Of course, within those parameters, personal tastes, sharpening techniques, may provide you with a different experience.


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## GeneH (Jul 22, 2020)

I really like my home inexpensive kitchen and outdoor knives finished at 1k or 2k and stropped a little. Going to 4k or 6k seems to remove that really slicing toothiness. (both carbon and stainless)


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## Goorackerelite (Jul 22, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> More of a slicer? Lots of butchery? You may like a 1K edge best.
> 
> More of a push cutter - push the grits, but if you go too high you'll eventually loose that initial feeling of readily biting into any kind of peel, skin or whatever.
> 
> Of course, within those parameters, personal tastes, sharpening techniques, may provide you with a different experience.


Mm yes I will totally try that!! In a sliicer and am craving more authority in the pull cut area. Thanks for this insight


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## ModRQC (Jul 23, 2020)

Then another one is scratch pattern - if a push and slice, perpendicular (to the edge) may work best, but if going into pure slicing perhaps you want an oblique pattern that follows your pull best. It’s tiny improvements but at the microscopic level your edge is a series of scratches on both sides where metal was abraded until the two sides apexed - and at the 1K level that apex is still rather toothy too. With the scratch pattern you are sort of « directing » the apex - where all those scratches lead into teeth that gained their thinnest, sharpest point according to a direction that suits you. 

If something it will also bring focus to your sharpening, around which you can refine a technique, and play with different stones, grits, pressure, mud, what have you, until you get to the best progression you can to hone that edge to your needs.

I’m using someone else’s wisdom here, but will take all the blame and ridicule of those who’ll just say it doesn’t matter at all. Helping my edge or not, it helped me a lot for sure.


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## spaceconvoy (Jul 23, 2020)

on some steels I prefer an even lower grit - with cheap stainless (CCK cleaver) I'll start/finish on just a 500 glass stone


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## Ruso (Jul 23, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> I’m using someone else’s wisdom here, but will take all the blame and ridicule of those who’ll just say it doesn’t matter at all. Helping my edge or not, it helped me a lot for sure.


While I think this is pretty mush a BS, but it does not matter really. If this belief is helping you and its producing better result for you - awesome.
I like a little bit of fairy dust for my mid grit stones, makes me wobble less.


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## Cliff (Jul 23, 2020)

I'll stop at 1-2K for my Honesuki. I typically take carbon up to around 6-8K


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## Benuser (Jul 23, 2020)

With a White#2, hard to see why you wouldn't try to get the best out of it. It's finely grained, no big carbides, so go for a highly polished edge, I'd say. Better enhance the steel's properties than fighting against them. By the way, a coarse finish won't hold very long on those steels. A highly polished one will, and can easily be restored. 
If you're looking for a more aggressive edge, better do it with a coarsely grained steel.


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## milas555 (Jul 23, 2020)

I prefer to end White2 on a 3K stone (Chosera). The blade is pleasantly aggressive and the sharpness seems to take longer.
I often keep playing and go to the Ohira Suita ...


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## GeneH (Jul 23, 2020)

Benuser said:


> With a White#2, hard to see why you wouldn't try to get the best out of it. It's finely grained, no big carbides, so go for a highly polished edge, I'd say. Better enhance the steel's properties than fighting against them. By the way, a coarse finish won't hold very long on those steels. A highly polished one will, and can easily be restored.
> If you're looking for a more aggressive edge, better do it with a coarsely grained steel.



Regarding, "...By the way, a coarse finish won't hold very long on those steels. A highly polished one will, and can easily be restored..." 

In your opinion, how much / what effect does the hardness of White#2 have on the choice of finishing polished vs 1k/2k finish?


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## Benuser (Jul 23, 2020)

GeneH said:


> Regarding, "...By the way, a coarse finish won't hold very long on those steels. A highly polished one will, and can easily be restored..."
> 
> In your opinion, how much / what effect does the hardness of White#2 have on the choice of finishing polished vs 1k/2k finish?


The hardness allows a very thin edge, at a very acute angle if you prefer. But the steel is far from abrasion resistant. See a coarse edge (I have no 2k in mind) as a fine saw. The only contact with the board will be made with its dents, where all forces are concentrated on. Don't expect them to hold very long. That's why I suggested a so-called closed edge with a larger contact area, and forces spread along the entire edge.
By the way, a Naniwa Chosera 3k delivers a 4k kind of edge, perfectly suited as a last stone on double-bevelled blades used in Western cuisine — with a lot of board contact.


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## inferno (Jul 23, 2020)

if 1k is all you have, go for it. but as others have said it doesn't make any sense one carbon steels. hard ss, high carbide steels and tool steels and such its more suitable for that. but even then. 1k?? i put at least 3-4k edges on everything i own. its a night and day difference compared to 1k i think.


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## Goorackerelite (Jul 23, 2020)

inferno said:


> if 1k is all you have, go for it. but as others have said it doesn't make any sense one carbon steels. hard ss, high carbide steels and tool steels and such its more suitable for that. but even then. 1k?? i put at least 3-4k edges on everything i own. its a night and day difference compared to 1k i think.


yes thank you for this opinion. that's what I was aiming for and normally do. But I'll try different finishing grits then deburr as a learning experience and report back my personal findings.


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## milas555 (Jul 23, 2020)

I agree with Benuser, I often go back to Chosera 3K after playing with Jnats - a few strokes for a sharp, aggressive micro bevel...


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## inferno (Jul 23, 2020)

*Goorackerelite*

go as far as you can on every grit you have, and do them as good as you can, start from the bottom. only then will you know what you want/need.

personally i feel i start liking the sharpness at about 3k and 2k is acceptable.

i find every jump in grit is an improvement. but abouve lets say 4k there isn't really any bit improvements to had.


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## GeneH (Jul 23, 2020)

I'm going to have to get a nice 3k to try.


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## milas555 (Jul 23, 2020)

then try Chosera 3k


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## Benuser (Jul 23, 2020)

Another aspect you may consider: how are you going to maintain a carbon 1k edge? If a 1k is all you have a lot of steel will shortly get abraded. The life span of a white steel treated in such a way will be unnecessary reduced. Remember: the white steel is very hard, but has little abrasion resistance. 
When maintaining my carbons I rarely have to go back to 1k or lower and perform a full sharpening. I normally use a small piece of Belgian Blue Brocken, or Hard Arkansas. A few edge leading strokes as if you were deburring is all you to need to revive an edge — almost at the level of fresh from the stones. If it doesn't go within a few strokes you go lower, say 2-3k.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 23, 2020)

I guess I’m in camp coarse. Not because I can or would dispute everything wise that’s been said above, but simply because a 1k edge (approximately) gives me (given how I sharpen and cut) the most joy in use. I like the feedback which that kind of edge gives when cutting through produce. Also, such edges are more predictable for me: I can keep a constant good pace and let knife fall through produce. (I got used to the edges that a Mac ceramic rod gives a long time ago: I guess it set a standard, good or bad). I often do touch ups on an aiiwatani tomae which gives a much finer finish but it works well for my preferences. If I’m in a hurry the old Mac rod comes to the rescue.


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## inferno (Jul 23, 2020)

GeneH said:


> I'm going to have to get a nice 3k to try.



a nice 3k is the naniwa pro *2k, *it basically cuts like a 2k then the slurry breaks down and it creates a 3k edge. and its cheaper than the naniwa pro 3k.

the glass 3 or 4k is also nice. i think the 3k is the better stone since its faster and does not clog easily, but yeah they 4k edge will be sharper, but its slower and clogs on some steels. 

i also like the cleancut 4k kitayama (this is most likely a bester/imanishi 4k). its a bit softer feeling, and a bit lighter, its a bit creamier, s&g and dries fast. 
i think its a bit slower than the glass 3 and 4k. but its not really important at this grit range imo.

i think all these stones are really nice.


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## BillHanna (Jul 23, 2020)

inferno said:


> a nice 3k is the naniwa pro *2k, *it basically cuts like a 2k then the slurry breaks down and it creates a 3k edge. and its cheaper than the naniwa pro 3k.


How close do you think the Shapton Pro 1.5K is to that Naniwa?


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## inferno (Jul 23, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> I guess I’m in camp coarse. Not because I can or would dispute everything wise that’s been said above, but simply because a 1k edge (approximately) gives me (given how I sharpen and cut) the most joy in use. I like the feedback which that kind of edge gives when cutting through produce. Also, such edges are more predictable for me: I can keep a constant good pace and let knife fall through produce. (I got used to the edges that a Mac ceramic rod gives a long time ago: I guess it set a standard, good or bad). I often do touch ups on an aiiwatani tomae which gives a much finer finish but it works well for my preferences. If I’m in a hurry the old Mac rod comes to the reduce.



is this the regular white rod? (do they have black ones too?)
would you say it puts on a 1k-ish edge?
does the rod clog up much?


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## inferno (Jul 23, 2020)

BillHanna said:


> How close do you think the Shapton Pro 1.5K is to that Naniwa?



not very. unfortuanately. probably twice as coarse.

i dont actually have the 1,5k shapton pro. but i have the 1k and 2k, 2 of my most used stones, (and best stones). 
the 1k is a bit coarser than regular 1k's maybe 800 or so. the 2k is a true 2k imo. 
i guess the 1,5k will be a true 1,5k or at the very most slightly below the 2k in grit.

i feel there is a big difference between my shappro2k/glass 2k and the glass 3k. at the 3k level i feel now its actually sharp, the 2k while your know quite sharp, it just doesn't cross that "really sharp" barrier. i feel about the same difference comparing the 4k glass with the 3k. its a big step up. maybe not as big as the 2-3k one but still. i feel at the 4k glass things start to get scary sharp. 

------------

so the shapton pro 1,5k vs naniwa 2k pro. i think the naniwa 2k pro will create a much sharper edge. comparable to the glass 3k. almost identical. 

i had the naniwa pro 1k for a few years as my baseline stone and that stone creates about a 1,5k edge. and its a bit slower than other 1k stones, and quite messy. for me its was too unrefined to stop on. so i guess the shappro 1,5k would be that too.

the real naniwa 1k pro is the 800. and its a very good 1k! 

---------------

basically the naniwa pros *finish* higher than their stated grit. 800 is 1k - 1k is 1,5k - 2k is 3k, 3k is 4k etc.

the shapton pro 1k is known to be lower, but i feel the 2k is about on par. that makes these 2 stones a quite good C/F combo in reality for cheap/soft SS and such. 

when i had my 1k naniwa pro i did a shootout with the 2k shapton. and the shapton is only a little bit slower, but the edge is much much better.
so i gave the nani to my brother.


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## BillHanna (Jul 23, 2020)

That's actually awesome. So I'm kinda getting a 3K at 2K price. I'm trying to decide if I want to jump to 5K, just to cook at home.


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## inferno (Jul 23, 2020)

its still a quite expensive 3k imo. but all the naniwa pros are "expensive" maybe not the 400/800/1k though. i feel they are worth it though.


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## ian (Jul 23, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Then another one is scratch pattern - if a push and slice, perpendicular (to the edge) may work best, but if going into pure slicing perhaps you want an oblique pattern that follows your pull best. It’s tiny improvements but at the microscopic level your edge is a series of scratches on both sides where metal was abraded until the two sides apexed - and at the 1K level that apex is still rather toothy too. With the scratch pattern you are sort of « directing » the apex - where all those scratches lead into teeth that gained their thinnest, sharpest point according to a direction that suits you.
> 
> If something it will also bring focus to your sharpening, around which you can refine a technique, and play with different stones, grits, pressure, mud, what have you, until you get to the best progression you can to hone that edge to your needs.
> 
> I’m using someone else’s wisdom here, but will take all the blame and ridicule of those who’ll just say it doesn’t matter at all. Helping my edge or not, it helped me a lot for sure.



I think the thing about the teeth of the edge being in the direction of the scratch pattern is probably BS. From what I understand (which may be wrong), the teeth are created when little bits of steel break off the edge. They aren’t little grooves created by abrasive particles. Think mountain range, not city of skyscrapers. And if you go look at some super zoomed in images of edges, there’s never an “orientation” of the teeth that matches the scratch pattern. At least I’ve never seen one.

If anything, maybe the orientation of the scratch pattern on the face of the knife might have some effect on how the knife goes through food. But I’m not convinced yet there’s a huge difference. Seems wiser to sharpen in whatever direction you can do most consistently, absent any other real evidence.


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## demirtasem (Jul 23, 2020)

Do you guys use a leather strop after 1k? I sharpened cheap Jknife with 54-56 HRC with Chosera 800, but I felt little resistance while I was slicing tomato. Then I jumped on Chosera 3k but this time it didn't bite, it slipped. Lastly I tried to jump to a fine leather strop (with Herald's green compound on it) after Chosera 800, this time I felt way better, smoother cuts. I wonder it makes sense or it's delusion.


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## GeneH (Jul 24, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> Do you guys use a leather strop after 1k? ... Then I jumped on...,but this time it didn't bite, it slipped.



Yep. 1K to .5u strop compound, or to 6k and same very minimal stropping. So I’m thinking super light finish on 3k and minimal stropping/maintenance with 4u compound on balsa or hard leather.


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## Carl Kotte (Jul 24, 2020)

inferno said:


> is this the regular white rod? (do they have black ones too?)
> would you say it puts on a 1k-ish edge?
> does the rod clog up much?


Yes exactly - the white cheap one. It does clog up a lot, but there are ways of taking care of that (atoma treatment being the most efficient one). I have no exact idea of what edge it puts on. I’ve heard that it’s like 800 so a 1k-ish edge sounds about right. 
Yeah there’s a black one too (2k finish afaik) and it would be cool to try - but I haven’t found it. Yet!


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## KingShapton (Jul 24, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> Do you guys use a leather strop after 1k? I sharpened cheap Jknife with 54-56 HRC with Chosera 800, but I felt little resistance while I was slicing tomato. Then I jumped on Chosera 3k but this time it didn't bite, it slipped. Lastly I tried to jump to a fine leather strop (with Herald's green compound on it) after Chosera 800, this time I felt way better, smoother cuts. I wonder it makes sense or it's delusion.


Stropping with leather, loaded with abrasives is like stropping on a finer stone. So it is not a true 1k edge...


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## KingShapton (Jul 24, 2020)

inferno said:


> the real naniwa 1k pro is the 800. and its a very good 1k!
> 
> ---------------
> 
> basically the naniwa pros *finish* higher than their stated grit. 800 is 1k - 1k is 1,5k - 2k is 3k, 3k is 4k etc.


Absolutely true!


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## KingShapton (Jul 24, 2020)

Benuser said:


> When maintaining my carbons I rarely have to go back to 1k or lower and perform a full sharpening. I normally use a small piece of Belgian Blue Brocken, or Hard Arkansas. A few edge leading strokes as if you were deburring is all you to need to revive an edge — almost at the level of fresh from the stones.


I am in camp "Arkansas"....love these stones!


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## GeneH (Jul 24, 2020)

As little as possible. Sometimes just my jeans, tight against my thigh. Otherwise I tend to use a hard leather, or balsa with a fast cutting compound. I strop as the last step no matter what knife or chisel or grit I sharpen with because no matter how careful I am, there's either a minor burr or wire edge to contend with. Also considering moving from .5u boron carbide to a 4u diamond compound to see if the edge stays a little more aggressive over time.


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## Cliff (Jul 24, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> Do you guys use a leather strop after 1k? I sharpened cheap Jknife with 54-56 HRC with Chosera 800, but I felt little resistance while I was slicing tomato. Then I jumped on Chosera 3k but this time it didn't bite, it slipped. Lastly I tried to jump to a fine leather strop (with Herald's green compound on it) after Chosera 800, this time I felt way better, smoother cuts. I wonder it makes sense or it's delusion.



That makes sense to me. the Choseras finish above their stated grit rating, compared to other stones, and tomato needs some teeth.


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## Matt Jacobs (Jul 24, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> Do you guys use a leather strop after 1k? I sharpened cheap Jknife with 54-56 HRC with Chosera 800, but I felt little resistance while I was slicing tomato. Then I jumped on Chosera 3k but this time it didn't bite, it slipped. Lastly I tried to jump to a fine leather strop (with Herald's green compound on it) after Chosera 800, this time I felt way better, smoother cuts. I wonder it makes sense or it's delusion.



I have really been liking my Chosera 800 followed by a denim strop with diamond micron spray. I get longer lasting results with my 800 followed by my rikka 5k but but it's not as toothy. For me even though this may seem backwards my carbon steals do better at the 800 and strop. I find that Hap40 and BD1-N do really well with the 800 and 5k. I also stopped doing edge trailing strops on my stones but do a good amount of edge leading to remove the burr and this has helped a lot.


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## Goorackerelite (Jul 25, 2020)

Ok so after some work and finishing at different grits. I most def prefer a higher grit finish on my Shirogami knives and lower grit finishes on my ****** stainless knives.


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## M1k3 (Aug 1, 2020)

I've been experimenting a little lately with lower grits. SG500 -> 1 micron balsa strop. Which could be replaced with cardboard or something...

I've only used it for 2 days on my Gengetsu, so I haven't completely made up my mind.

I do like my other good knives finished on SG4k or Gesshin 4k and that's it though..


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## ian (Aug 1, 2020)

I've been enjoying Cheerios boxes recently. Might have to branch out and try some different cereals, though. I wonder if there's a different quality to Special K stropping.


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## dafox (Aug 1, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I've been experimenting a little lately with lower grits. SG500 -> 1 micron balsa strop. Which could be replaced with cardboard or something...
> 
> I've only used it for 2 days on my Gengetsu, so I haven't completely made up my mind.
> 
> I do like my other good knives finished on SG4k or Gesshin 4k and that's it though..


I'm looking at getting a Gesshin 4000, i like a toothy edge, either that or the synthetic natural.


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## M1k3 (Aug 1, 2020)

ian said:


> I've been enjoying Cheerios boxes recently. Might have to branch out and try some different cereals, though. I wonder if there's a different quality to Special K stropping.


Crunch Berries


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## M1k3 (Aug 1, 2020)

dafox said:


> I'm looking at getting a Gesshin 4000, i like a toothy edge, either that or the synthetic natural.


The Gesshin 4k leaves a decently aggressive edge for 4k. Haven't tried the synthetic natural though.


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## inferno (Aug 2, 2020)

ian said:


> I've been enjoying Cheerios boxes recently. Might have to branch out and try some different cereals, though. I wonder if there's a different quality to Special K stropping.



try cracklin oat bran!


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## Michi (Aug 2, 2020)

Last weekend, I spend a few hours sharpening a whole bunch of knives, using Suihiro Cerax 1000 and 3000, and Suehiro Rika 5000 stones. The knives included Wüsthof, Opinel Carbone, Aogami #2, White #2, SG-2, and HAP-40 steels.

I figured that this would be a good opportunity to figure out what grit finish I prefer for what kind of knife. Here are some observations.

For the Wüsthof knives, a 1000 finish followed by a few swipes on a strop with green compound is more than adequate. They get really sharp, somewhat toothy, and following up with a 3000-grit stone doesn't make them cut any better. (If anything, slightly worse for tomatoes.)
The one exception where I do like a finer edge is for my boning knife and my (flexible) fish filleting knife. There, it does pay to go all the way to 5000. But I'm not cutting tomatoes with those knives.
For the Opinel knives 1000-grit grit is plenty enough. Stepping up to 3000 grit doesn't really make much of a difference.
With powdered steel knives (SG-2 and HAP-40), I found that they cut well after the 1000 stone and better after the 3000 stone. Still going through tomatoes perfectly. I then tried a 5000 finish. The knives were objectively sharper, slicing through paper with less effort and less noise. But they didn't work that well for tomatoes anymore. There was this tendency for the blade to glide on the skin before starting the cut. After I roughed them up a little on the 3000 stone again, they worked better for tomatoes.
The Aogami #2 and white #2 knives kept improving. Very good after the 3000 stone, and even better after the 5000 stone, both with paper and with tomato.
So, this is my take-away:

For Wüsthof, Opinel, and similar soft-steel knives, 1000 is the sweet spot. 5000 will make them cut a little better with proteins, so this is worth doing for something like a boning knife.
PM steels do get sharper at 5000 vs 3000 (at least when cutting paper) but, to me, don't work as well for waxy skins, so 3000 is the sweet spot for me. (3000 also works a treat when they lose the edge just a little, to freshen them up.)
The Aogami #2 and white #2 knives just get sharper as I follow the progression. 5000 is the sweet spot for me, except possibly for my Yanagiba, where I tend to go to 10000 because I can (but I'm not sure that the difference is really all that noticeable).


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## dafox (Aug 2, 2020)

Michi said:


> Last weekend, I spend a few hours sharpening a whole bunch of knives, using Suihiro Cerax 1000 and 3000, and Suehiro Rika 5000 stones. The knives included Wüsthof, Opinel Carbone, Aogami #2, White #2, SG-2, and HAP-40 steels.
> 
> I figured that this would be a good opportunity to figure out what grit finish I prefer for what kind of knife. Here are some observations.
> 
> ...


Thanks Michi, I just got a set of Cerax, 320, 1000, and 5000, looks like I may get a 3000 now  For yanagiba sharpening do you think the 3000 is needed or, using the stones you have, do you need the 3000, or ok to jump from 1000 to 5000 to 10000?


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## demirtasem (Aug 2, 2020)

Have a question to you all. 

I used to work with house knives at restaurant. Couple days ago I bought a MAC MTH-80 to try at work. On restaurant type polyethylene board I used it two days. At first, out of box performance was really good. No chips nothing. I worked on let's say 10-30 lbs of brussels sprouts, zucchini, squash, red/green bell pepper, onions, 40 lbs of each idaho, sweet and red potatoes. I do this process 2-3 times in a week. (I only used black MAC hone 2-3 times.)

Now it resists cutting a bit. I don't want to say dull cause it's not. It's still in decent shape (now I understand to MAC's reputation) but for example I can't easily cut tomatoes. 

I can not say I'm experienced with AUS-8 steel and don't know where to stop.
So here's my question what would you suggest me:

1) Sharpen it on Chosera 800 and Strop (Herald's Red Compound)
2) Sharpen it on Chosera 800+3000 / with or without strop?
3) Thin it (cause it's brand new) and go with option 1 or option 2 above?

Thank you.


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## Qapla' (Aug 2, 2020)

dafox said:


> Thanks Michi, I just got a set of Cerax, 320, 1000, and 5000, looks like I may get a 3000 now  For yanagiba sharpening do you think the 3000 is needed or, using the stones you have, do you need the 3000, or ok to jump from 1000 to 5000 to 10000?


I won't speak for anyone else, but I'll state that I go 800 -> 3000 -> 8000 on single-bevel knives, and that I'm finding that changing the pressure can be of use here. Considering that the correlation between grit ranges and the effects on sharpening aren't an exact science to begin with (and grit-ratings cease to be applicable above JIS 8000 anyways), I don't see a reason a priori why you can't go 1000 -> 5000 -> 10000 if you so choose. Is it the best way to go, or better than some other way? I don't know.


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## msk (Aug 2, 2020)

dafox said:


> I'm looking at getting a Gesshin 4000, i like a toothy edge, either that or the synthetic natural.


If you like toothy, you'll love the Gesshin 4k. I was using the Gesshin 6k (and Shapton Pro 5k before that). Been finishing with the 4k for about a month and haven't had much desire to go back to the others (although the 6k is very nice as well, just noticeably less toothy).


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## Michi (Aug 3, 2020)

dafox said:


> Thanks Michi, I just got a set of Cerax, 320, 1000, and 5000, looks like I may get a 3000 now  For yanagiba sharpening do you think the 3000 is needed or, using the stones you have, do you need the 3000, or ok to jump from 1000 to 5000 to 10000?


I initially bought the 1000 and the 5000. I added the 3000 only because I wanted a touch-up stone for re-sharpening knives that were getting a little dull, but not so dull that I'd want to put them onto the 1000.

I see no problem with going from 1000 to 5000, that's perfectly fine if you want a 5000 edge.


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## dafox (Aug 3, 2020)

Michi said:


> I initially bought the 1000 and the 5000. I added the 3000 only because I wanted a touch-up stone for re-sharpening knives that were getting a little dull, but not so dull that I'd want to put them onto the 1000.
> 
> I see no problem with going from 1000 to 5000, that's perfectly fine if you want a 5000 edge.


On another note, do you have the Shapton glass 3000, I wonder how it compares to the Cerax 3000 for R2, paper and tomatoes?


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## Kawa (Aug 3, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> Have a question to you all.
> 
> I used to work with house knives at restaurant. Couple days ago I bought a MAC MTH-80 to try at work. On restaurant type polyethylene board I used it two days. At first, out of box performance was really good. No chips nothing. I worked on let's say 10-30 lbs of brussels sprouts, zucchini, squash, red/green bell pepper, onions, 40 lbs of each idaho, sweet and red potatoes. I do this process 2-3 times in a week. (I only used black MAC hone 2-3 times.)
> 
> ...



I'd say, alywas finish on a strop, no matter what. It's more for cleaning the edge (removing tiny burr and removing 'loose' particles) then it is an 'extra polishing' step.

Thinning is your own preference. Do you think your edge retention is good enough? You expect (want?) it to stay sharp longer? Dont thin it.
Do you want it to cut even better at first, but you are willing to touch up more often? You can thin it.
Beware of what the steel allows though. Too thin and your edge might not hold at all.

Try both finishing at 800 and 3000. You will notice what you like better. Both ways are easily adjustable if you dont like it and none of the gritts will ruin your knife...

For me, an 800 gritt finish is too coarse to call my knife 'sharp enough'. Also, the lower gritt your finish on, the better you have to become at removing burrs.
A 800 burr can't easily be stropped away. A 3k burr is easier to remove with a strop (because its much smaller and nimble)


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## demirtasem (Aug 3, 2020)

Kawa said:


> Try both finishing at 800 and 3000. You will notice what you like better. Both ways are easily adjustable if you dont like it and none of the gritts will ruin your knife...
> 
> For me, an 800 gritt finish is too coarse to call my knife 'sharp enough'. Also, the lower gritt your finish on, the better you have to become at removing burrs.
> A 800 burr can't easily be stropped away. A 3k burr is easier to remove with a strop (because its much smaller and nimble)



Thank you. If it was a softer steel or a German knife I would probably stop at coarse stone + strop. But I don't know yet where to stop on AUS-8 steel that's all. I'm gonna try both ways then.


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## ModRQC (Aug 3, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> Thank you. If it was a softer steel or a German knife I would probably stop at coarse stone + strop. But I don't know yet where to stop on AUS-8 steel that's all. I'm gonna try both ways then.



Although the logic behind sharpening soft ss on coarser grit is sound, when hardened enough it’s not so much a matter of steel as of preferences. I mean that your AUS-8 (something like ~58 HRC) can take an edge to your liking within reason (I think 5K is the mark here), so you could decide that you like one from 800 grits best, and I sure don’t see no reason why you couldn’t take it up to the 3K if that’s what you prefer.


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## demirtasem (Aug 3, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Although the logic behind sharpening soft ss on coarser grit is sound, when hardened enough it’s not so much a matter of steel as of preferences. I mean that your AUS-8 (something like ~58 HRC) can take an edge to your liking within reason (I think 5K is the mark here), so you could decide that you like one from 800 grits best, and I sure don’t see no reason why you couldn’t take it up to the 3K if that’s what you prefer.



That's good to know. Thanks.


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## M1k3 (Aug 3, 2020)

There's also the option of get sharp on low grit. Then a few passes on your higher grit, not fully smoothing out the previous stones teeth.

EDIT: It's basically what I was talking about previously. When I strop, I just do 2 passes per side.


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## ModRQC (Aug 3, 2020)

I think it’s the best method with softer and med steels, when you don’t like that sharky edge out of coarse, but I was wary to say it. A couple of light edge leading strokes is my way, would you advise rather for trailing?


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## M1k3 (Aug 3, 2020)

I prefer edge leading. Try out both though.


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## ian (Aug 3, 2020)

Especially for soft stainless, edge leading is gold.


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## M1k3 (Aug 3, 2020)

Edge trailing = burr may or may not fall off

Edge leading = GOOD RIDDANCE BURR!


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## panda (Aug 3, 2020)

dafox said:


> I'm looking at getting a Gesshin 4000, i like a toothy edge, either that or the synthetic natural.


its the best stone


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## M1k3 (Aug 3, 2020)




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## panda (Aug 3, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> Have a question to you all.
> 
> I used to work with house knives at restaurant. Couple days ago I bought a MAC MTH-80 to try at work. On restaurant type polyethylene board I used it two days. At first, out of box performance was really good. No chips nothing. I worked on let's say 10-30 lbs of brussels sprouts, zucchini, squash, red/green bell pepper, onions, 40 lbs of each idaho, sweet and red potatoes. I do this process 2-3 times in a week. (I only used black MAC hone 2-3 times.)
> 
> ...


option 1


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## ModRQC (Aug 3, 2020)

How I figured it. Thanks guys!


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## GeneH (Aug 3, 2020)

demirtasem said:


> .... 10-30 lbs of brussels sprouts, zucchini, squash, red/green bell pepper, onions, 40 lbs of each idaho, sweet and red potatoes. I do this process 2-3 times in a week. (I only used black MAC hone 2-3 times.)



Everytime I read how much a real user does with their knife, I realize I don't know shtufff from shinola about sharpening for a longer lasting working edge. I'm such an amateur, even for a home cook and occasional Whitetail deer butchering. It's humbling.


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## kayman67 (Aug 3, 2020)

With the right sequence and proper technique, edge retention gets pretty good even for "poor" alloys. Edge leading is still the leading way to get things working as best as possible the fastest way possible, but proved to be quite a challenge for most people. Same as fine grits, especially if the stones are a bit softer.


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## M1k3 (Aug 3, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> With the right sequence and proper technique, edge retention gets pretty good even for "poor" alloys. Edge leading is still the leading way to get things working as best as possible the fastest way possible, but proved to be quite a challenge for most people. Same as fine grits, especially if the stones are a bit softer.


Reminds me of the times my attention slightly dwindles... Progression being 500 -> 4k ->  -> 500 -> 4k


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## ian (Aug 3, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Reminds me of the times my attention slightly dwindles... Progression being 500 -> 4k ->  -> 500 -> 4k



I’ve had progressions with crap stainless that were like 800 -> 2000 -> hmmmm -> 800 -> 2000 -> rrrrrg -> Atoma 140 -> 300 -> 800 -> 2000 ->


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## M1k3 (Aug 3, 2020)

Definitely crap stainless, especially extremely dull crap stainless, need low grit. Got to get past the "bent back and forth steel that's acting like a paperclip" steel.


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## Goorackerelite (Aug 3, 2020)

What exactly is a burr? Is it like the sloppy sex towel that needs to get tossed out after every act?


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## ModRQC (Aug 3, 2020)

Steel that’s been pushed beyond the apex through abrasion and plastic deformation; « underneath » is the fresh edge, if apexed well. As @Benuser would say do not confuse with accumulating debris on the edge bevel.


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## OnionSlicer (Aug 3, 2020)

Goorackerelite said:


> What exactly is a burr? Is it like the sloppy sex towel that needs to get tossed out after every act?



You're close. As you grind your hard steel against the soft, wet stone, a build up inevitably begins to take place that soon overflows the apex of your blade. This formation must be removed to keep your tool clean and in good working order, but care must also be taken not to let it load up into the stone in order to avoid problems down the line.


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## ian (Aug 3, 2020)

Goorackerelite said:


> What exactly is a burr? Is it like the sloppy sex towel that needs to get tossed out after every act?



Pro tip: wiping with those towels builds a quick patina.


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## panda (Aug 3, 2020)

i only take stainless to chosera 400.


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## M1k3 (Aug 4, 2020)

panda said:


> i only take stainless to chosera 400.


Lies! You don't like stainless!


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## TSF415 (Aug 4, 2020)

M1k3 said:


>




Damnit. I was reading thru from the last page and started laughing because I had a feeling it was coming but I resisted from watching it again.


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## M1k3 (Aug 4, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> Damnit. I was reading thru from the last page and started laughing because I had a feeling it was coming but I resisted from watching it again.


I was going to tag you but thought the surprise would be better.


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