# which japanese knife?



## guga (Apr 9, 2011)

Hi! I am new to the forum and would like to know which knife would you recomend. I've been cooking for several years (not pro), and just recently started culinary school. I own a few wusthof ikon classic knives (chefs, paring, utility) and I am very pleased with them. Now I want to buy a japanese knife, and been looking on the shops you people have recomended on this forum.



This is what i've found (i want a gyuto knife):

The one I liked the most was the Hattori gyuto kd, until I saw the price, I cant pay $1,000 for a knife no matter how good it may be. 

so, I look at all of this:


hattori hd gyuto
ryusen tsuchime damascus series
shiki damascus premium
kanetsugu saiun damascus
hiromoto Tenmi Jyuraku Damascus Series (VG-10)


well, of all of them, the one that I liked the most is the Kanetsugu, so....is it a good choice for a go to knife?? or any of the rest may be a better choice?


thanks

guga


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## FryBoy (Apr 9, 2011)

I have a few "Hattori" HD knives and like them very much, but I can't comment on how they compare with the others you've listed. However, understand that Hattori does NOT actually make the HD line. Rather, those knives are manufactured by Ryusen and sold under several different brands. According to Koki of JCK, the Kanji (Chinese characters) on my knives indicate that they are Hattori, Takahisa, and Maruyoshi brands. He says that Hattori takes extra care to make sure the knives are up to their standards, refinishing if necessary. However, all of my samples seem to be of the same high quality, regardless of how they're labeled. And they are excellent knives, don't get me wrong about that. 

If you want to go that way and save a few bucks, look at the HD knives with the Maruyoshi Kanji sold by CKTG: http://www.**************.com/hattoriknives.html Same knives, a few bucks cheaper.

I also have a Hiromoto T-J Suji that I like very much -- nice knife for the money.


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## Dave Martell (Apr 9, 2011)

Welcome to KKF! 

The guys will come along shortly I'm sure and get you sorted out, they always have great advice and love to spend other people's money.


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## Lefty (Apr 9, 2011)

I don't have experience with any of the knives you've mentioned, other than the Ikons (great knives by the way...nice choice there).
I just wanted to say welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of j-knives!
I hope you have a good savings account


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## guga (Apr 9, 2011)

add a knife and the links to all of them:

- hattori hd gyuto (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HDSeries.html)
- ryusen tsuchime damascus series (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/Ry...cusSeries.html)
- shiki damascus premium (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SH...cusSeries.html)
- kanetsugu saiun damascus (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/Sa...cusSeries.html)
- kanetsugu pro j series (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ProJSeries.html)
- hiromoto Tenmi Jyuraku Damascus Series (VG-10) (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/Te...EIGHT: 184px)


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## RRLOVER (Apr 9, 2011)

Welcome to the forum.Are you opposed to carbon?? A Konosuke white #2 Wa gyuto would blow your mind compared to a Hattori hd and the likes.It would not bump the price up to much either.


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## kalaeb (Apr 9, 2011)

guga said:


> Hi! I am new to the forum and would like to know which knife would you recomend. I've been cooking for several years (not pro), and just recently started culinary school. I own a few wusthof ikon classic knives (chefs, paring, utility) and I am very pleased with them. Now I want to buy a japanese knife, and been looking on the shops you people have recomended on this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Welcome to the forum, just out of curiosity...you mentioned you are starting culinary school. Is the knife you are looking into for school? If so, you might want to stay away from the fancy damascus patterns. I have never been to culinary school, but have heard they tend to have some people with sticky fingers. If you are using it for school, I would get something simple and plain, maybe the JCK vg-10 line, a Tojiro, or even a forschner. On the other hand, if you are using it for home, or in a work environement where you can trust your co-workers, then I would splurge some more and get a really good knife.


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## Eamon Burke (Apr 9, 2011)

Hey, our first "I'm new, what knife to buy" thread! Now we have everything!

What exactly IS your budget, and can you tell us a bit about how you use the knife(grip, cutting techniques, etc)?


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## Lefty (Apr 9, 2011)

I'll mention it, because I'm pretty sure it's become an obligatory response.
If it's for school, you can always check out the Fujiwara FKM.
Great reputation and value!


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## guga (Apr 9, 2011)

johndoughy said:


> Hey, our first "I'm new, what knife to buy" thread! Now we have everything!
> 
> What exactly IS your budget, and can you tell us a bit about how you use the knife(grip, cutting techniques, etc)?


 
sorry if I was rude, my english is not very good (i'm from argentina) and try to keep it simple.

i dont really know how to describe how I use the knife, I am just an amateur cook, but if it helps, the wusthof ikon classic that i own feels very confortable on my hand.

my budget is $200 +/-

thanx


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## Eamon Burke (Apr 9, 2011)

No problem! Then let me ask you a different question:

What about your Wusthof Icon Classic would you like to improve? Why do you want a different knife?


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## guga (Apr 9, 2011)

kalaeb said:


> Welcome to the forum, just out of curiosity...you mentioned you are starting culinary school. Is the knife you are looking into for school? If so, you might want to stay away from the fancy damascus patterns. I have never been to culinary school, but have heard they tend to have some people with sticky fingers. If you are using it for school, I would get something simple and plain, maybe the JCK vg-10 line, a Tojiro, or even a forschner. On the other hand, if you are using it for home, or in a work environement where you can trust your co-workers, then I would splurge some more and get a really good knife.


 
thanks for the response.

The knife will be used on my home, not in culinary school....I know about the "sticky fingers" and I would hate to lose an expensive knife.


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## guga (Apr 9, 2011)

johndoughy said:


> No problem! Then let me ask you a different question:
> 
> What about your Wusthof Icon Classic would you like to improve? Why do you want a different knife?


 
I want a different knife just because I like knives a lot. 

I dont have a lot of experience with knives, before the wusthof I had a $20 knife so the change was huge for me, but the problem that I have with the wusthof is that I find very difficult to keep it sharp. Maybe is me, that I dont do a good job shapening the knife


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## El Pescador (Apr 9, 2011)

Having worked on lines for years I have to recommend that you go as "plain Jane" as you can. People grab other peoples knives and stuff can walk away pretty easily. I'd look at the for sale boards here and other sites for a carbon gyuto that's used and seasoned. If its used and little beat up you aren't going to feel bad when you put scratches in it while you're learning to sharpen it or feel bad if someone grabs it and opens a can w/ it. One of the great things about carbon is its pure joy to sharpen. 

Pesky


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## Citizen Snips (Apr 9, 2011)

if you like how the wusthof fits your hand i would probably go with the hiromoto AS. the damascus are pretty but in my opinion the hiromoto is as well. it gives you the experience of a carbon knife while protecting you if this is your first purchase in the japanese knife world. i usually recommend this knife to people who would like to get into japanese knives but are only really used to german cutlery. this was my first knife and i couldn't be happier with what it provided me with. it will also come in under budget. 

http://www.**************.com/higykn24.html


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## Lefty (Apr 9, 2011)

Take a look at this beauty! 
I wish I had a reason to buy it!
http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?10319-Masamoto-HC-240mm-gyuto-like-new


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## SpikeC (Apr 9, 2011)

I would recommend not buying just yet. I think that you will greatly benefit form spending more time with the tools that you have, and learn how to sharpen them. If you spend more time on the forums you will get a better handle on what makes the different knives better than one or the other. Things that you may think are desirable now may not be so with more knowledge. Some people buy and sell knives until they land on what works best for them, and that is valid, butt you can spend a lot of money that way.


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## El Pescador (Apr 10, 2011)

Good catch Lefty! That's a hell of a knife. 

Pesky


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## kalaeb (Apr 10, 2011)

All the knives you listed use VG-10 and are not bad knives, but I think you limit the possibilites by looking at only one steel.

If I had to choose between those knives I would pick the Hattori, although I think Ryusen makes the Hattori and are basically the same steel with the exception of some cosmetic differences.

The Hiromoto seems pricey for vg-10, maybe it is the Damascus patterning, but I would not pay for it. 

Is there a reason you like vg-10? Again, it is not bad, but in terms of performance, the Hiromoto with the AS carbon core that Citizen Snips recommends is a better knife (steel), as is the monosteel virgin carbon linked in Leftys reply, imo. Both those knives will require more care
than VG-10, but I like that using carbon forces me to take care of my knives.


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## Cadillac J (Apr 10, 2011)

Do you use the traditional European "rock chop" as your technique...if so, are you open to changing to a "push-cut" which is preferable for most Japanese knives due to the profile and hardness?

Like asked before, do you want to stick with stainless or would you be open to carbon?

Are you looking for something to use a steel with to touch up quickly, or do you think you will really get into this and purchase some sharpening stones/strops/etc.?

What kind of cutting board do you have...is it a plastic poly board? Depending on the steel and technique you use, an end-grain wood or sani-tuff rubber board would be a great investment for you at home, as it would protect your edges and make them last much longer.

Even without these questions answered above, my two current suggestions would be:
-Fujiwara FKM gyuto 240mm
or
-JCK CarboNext gyuto 240mm
-and then you could purchase a Bester 1200 sharpening stone and keep it all under $200


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## guga (Apr 10, 2011)

Cadillac J said:


> Do you use the traditional European "rock chop" as your technique...if so, are you open to changing to a "push-cut" which is preferable for most Japanese knives due to the profile and hardness?
> 
> Like asked before, do you want to stick with stainless or would you be open to carbon?
> 
> ...


 
hi, thanks for all the answers. I am open to carbon, I pick those knives because I read and thought the were made from good companies and also because I liked how they look, but I have no problem buying another knife. 
I will take a look on the knives you recomended me.

thanks again


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## Cadillac J (Apr 10, 2011)

I have owned many knives both on the high and lower ends, and recently made a thread about 'knife progression'...and after down-sizing my collection, I still have a Fujiwara FKM and a JCK CarboNext in my arsenal, if that tells you anything. The CarboNext is a higher performer in general, but the Fujiwara is more durable with a great profile.

Great knives for all levels, but I think they are perfect to get started with--Low cost of entry, will blow away 90% of knives on the market, stain-resistant, not too hard/chippy, and have western handles that will be an easier transition for most at the start.


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## guga (Apr 10, 2011)

Cadillac J said:


> I have owned many knives both on the high and lower ends, and recently made a thread about 'knife progression'...and after down-sizing my collection, I still have a Fujiwara FKM and a JCK CarboNext in my arsenal, if that tells you anything. The CarboNext is a higher performer in general, but the Fujiwara is more durable with a great profile.
> 
> Great knives for all levels, but I think they are perfect to get started with--Low cost of entry, will blow away 90% of knives on the market, stain-resistant, not too hard/chippy, and have western handles that will be an easier transition for most at the start.



I really liked the kanetsugu damascus (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SaiunDamascusSeries.html), but is seems that no one recomended it.

Well, i have read every post available and I have narrow my search on this knives:

- Hiromoto AS (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuSeries.html)
- Fujiwara FKM (http://www.**************.com/fufkmgy21.html)
- Masamoto VG (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/VGSeries.html#WIDTH: 323px; HEIGHT: 181px)
- Tojiro DP (http://www.**************.com/tojiro-dp-f-8081.html)

I like the hiromoto the most....but is also one of the most expensive

As for sharpening, I was thinking about spyderco's sharpmaker



any thoughts?


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## FryBoy (Apr 10, 2011)

The Edge Pro is head and shoulders above the Sharpmaker. I've used both -- had the Sharpmaker first, wasn't happy with the results, bought the EP, very happy with it, sold the Sharpmaker on Ebay. Also have some experience with free stones -- don't use them enough to feel confident, which isn't a problem with the EP. 

BTW, don't eliminate the Hattori/Ryusen HD knives simply because they're made by Ryusen instead of Hattori -- they are superb knives.


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## NO ChoP! (Apr 11, 2011)

Well, since you said the main reason you want to go with a Jknife over your current Ikon is sharpness, and ease of keeping it sharp, I am going to +1 on the carbon. Konosuke white #2, like Mario said, is superior in many a way, I feel. It will get wickedly sharp very quickly. 

I feel allot of the knives you like, you may be paying a premium for the look; ie: damascus, over performance..... 

The konosuke will give you high end performance for around $175 (drop the saya). 

http://www.**************.com/kowh2wa24.html


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## oivind_dahle (May 18, 2011)

I love the Hiromoto!

But you need to rehandle it 
Dave does an awesome job 

There are many great knives out there. The Hiro got its fans all over the world. I use my Hiro often and love it. It will never leave my kitchen and Im glad the first japanese knife I ever bought was a Hiro AS. Love it and will never leave it


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## MadMel (May 19, 2011)

I'd recommend the Hiro AS over a pure carbon as I'm guessing you have not had any experience with carbon knives. Takes a great edge and great edge retaining as well. And it fits nicely into your budget and leaves you with some $$ to get a few stones. 
Otherwise a CN is a great choice too. If you decide on the CN, do not get the ES. Not worth the $10 extra.
I'd recommend trying free-hand sharpening over using a gig. Unless of course you want a super precise angle, which I don't think is a necessity.


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## Lefty (May 19, 2011)

A precise angle won't hurt. 
To be honest, it's just worthwhile to learn to freehand. You have more versatility and it's just plain fun!
For me, the addiction has turned from what do I cut with, to how much can I cut with it before it dulls? Once you get hooked on sharpening, you see a knife and wonder how it feels on the stones.


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## MadMel (May 19, 2011)

Lefty said:


> A precise angle won't hurt.
> To be honest, it's just worthwhile to learn to freehand. You have more versatility and it's just plain fun!
> For me, the addiction has turned from what do I cut with, to how much can I cut with it before it dulls? Once you get hooked on sharpening, you see a knife and wonder how it feels on the stones.


 
+1 Agree with that tho the reason I free hand in the first place was cause I couldn't afford a gig. Got hooked and have now spent more on stones then I would on an EP LOL


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## Lefty (May 19, 2011)

You gotta be a minimalist like me and Murray Carter!  
It's so much more rewarding!


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## MadMel (May 19, 2011)

Lefty said:


> You gotta be a minimalist like me and Murray Carter!
> It's so much more rewarding!


 
Actually going by what some of you guys have, I'm a minimalist haha. A total of 5 stones, 2 J-knives and a couple of henckels and victorinoxes. Stones are mad expensive here. Imagine a Naniwa SS 10k costing more then an EP with shipping...


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## Lefty (May 19, 2011)

Yeah, but what does a house cost? 
I have far too many...I take that back. A LOT of knives, but only have 2 stones.


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## Seb (May 19, 2011)

Everyone should have a Naniwa SS10K... so much fun.


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## MadMel (May 19, 2011)

Lefty said:


> Yeah, but what does a house cost?
> I have far too many...I take that back. A LOT of knives, but only have 2 stones.



:lol2:
Owning a house in land scarce Singapore = millionaire
We usually just get by with apartments haha.
Prolly gonna trim my stones down to 3. And build the knives up a 'couple' more


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