# Removing a handle



## esoo (Jun 27, 2020)

I'm in the process of trying to get the handle off a Kono HD2 210 so I can replace it. 

Spent the last 20 minutes trying the hammer and block method without success. 

Any suggestions on how to get the dang stock Kono handle off?


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## Carl Kotte (Jun 27, 2020)

I like pouring boiling water over the spot where the tang meets the handle. Others prefer popping the knives in the oven (80-90 degrees celsius for 10 minutes). Good luck!


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## esoo (Jun 27, 2020)

Thanks. 

Took two trips into the oven but the handle is now off


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## Bensbites (Jun 27, 2020)

esoo said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Took two trips into the oven but the handle is now off


I think kono uses hot melt glue. After a few minutes in boiling water the handle slides off.


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## esoo (Jun 27, 2020)

Bensbites said:


> I think kono uses hot melt glue. After a few minutes in boiling water the handle slides off.



I ended up putting the bare tang in boiling water for a bit to clean off the remaining glue. 

Botched the install of the new handle with beeswax a bit, so I'm going to have to do it again


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## birdsfan (Jun 27, 2020)

My apologies if this is hijacking the thread, though it is on topic, but does anyone know what JKI uses to attach handles to the Gesshin Kagero Wa?


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## Bensbites (Jun 27, 2020)

esoo said:


> I ended up putting the bare tang in boiling water for a bit to clean off the remaining glue.
> 
> Botched the install of the new handle with beeswax a bit, so I'm going to have to do it again


I have had beeswax installs go slightly crooked. They are easy to fix, just use the bag method and heat the handle until the beeswax is soft but not totally melted. You can adjust to to straight.


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## esoo (Jun 27, 2020)

Bensbites said:


> I have had beeswax installs go slightly crooked. They are easy to fix, just use the bag method and heat the handle until the beeswax is soft but not totally melted. You can adjust to to straight.



That wasn't my problem - I filled the hole with melted beeswax using a syringe, and dropped the warmed tang in. In the process, seems like I pushed out too much wax as I ended up with an air pocket down at the end of the tang as you can hear it rattle back and forth.


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## Bensbites (Jun 27, 2020)

esoo said:


> That wasn't my problem - I filled the hole with melted beeswax using a syringe, and dropped the warmed tang in. In the process, seems like I pushed out too much wax as I ended up with an air pocket down at the end of the tang as you can hear it rattle back and forth.


Aaahhh. Here is what I have learned with trial and error.
Add the hot wax, then let the handle completely cool. Then add the hot tang. I can’t fully explain why you have to wait for the wax plug to cool, but it makes a difference.


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## esoo (Jun 27, 2020)

Bensbites said:


> Aaahhh. Here is what I have learned with trial and error.
> Add the hot wax, then let the handle completely cool. Then add the hot tang. I can’t fully explain why you have to wait for the wax plug to cool, but it makes a difference.



thanks for that - I was thinking that would be a good tactic and was thinking of that as my next tactic. How full do you fill the slot?


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## Bensbites (Jun 27, 2020)

esoo said:


> thanks for that - I was thinking that would be a good tactic and was thinking of that as my next tactic. How full do you fill the slot?


I syringe in the hot beeswax. I also tape up the handle and insert the hot tang outside or cover the area. Cooled beeswax is a pain to remove.


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## lemeneid (Jun 28, 2020)

I prefer the oven method, the boiling method causes the oils from within the handle to leech out, so you would need to refinish the handle again. Also the boiling method can cause a patina to form on the metal if you’ve immersed the knife partially in water, thus requiring you to spend time removing the patina there too, and if your water is a little heavy, the patina might be harder to remove and will result in completely refinishing the knife.

Just pop it in the oven, simple and easy.


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## Dendrobatez (Jun 28, 2020)

I use a heat gun for the same reason @lemeneid uses the oven, boiling water will pull a lot of the oils out and cause damage. Ive had stabilized wood shatter and buffalo horn collars crack after boiling. I'd like to build a little induction heater eventually.


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## applepieforbreakfast (Jun 28, 2020)

esoo said:


> I ended up putting the bare tang in boiling water for a bit to clean off the remaining glue.



Razor blade works really well to get the leftover glue off.


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## big D (Jun 28, 2020)

Bensbites said:


> I have had beeswax installs go slightly crooked. They are easy to fix, just use the bag method and heat the handle until the beeswax is soft but not totally melted. You can adjust to to straight.


What is the Bag Method if you don't mind explaining?


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## aszma (Jun 28, 2020)

did you happen to video the whole process between removing the handle and reinstalling the new one? Looking to do this soon on a toyama


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## Bensbites (Jun 28, 2020)

big D said:


> What is the Bag Method if you don't mind explaining?


Place knife and handle into a bag. Not everything needs to be sealed, just tall enough to stay dry.


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## big D (Jun 28, 2020)

Bensbites said:


> Place knife and handle into a bag. Not everything needs to be sealed, just tall enough to stay dry.


Took me a few moments..slow sometimes. This is for boiling purposes, was thinking oven. Thank you
Appreciated,
D.


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## M1k3 (Jun 28, 2020)

birdsfan said:


> My apologies if this is hijacking the thread, though it is on topic, but does anyone know what JKI uses to attach handles to the Gesshin Kagero Wa?


Hot/melt glue.


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## birdsfan (Jun 28, 2020)

Thanks M1k3, I see a thrift store toaster oven in my future


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## esoo (Jun 30, 2020)

aszma said:


> did you happen to video the whole process between removing the handle and reinstalling the new one? Looking to do this soon on a toyama



Didn't video the process, but here is how it went down
- use the block and hammer method for 30 minutes to not remove the handle
- post here
- heat the knife in a 170F toaster oven for 8 minutes
- use the block and hammer method, have the handle move about 1cm
- heat the knife again in the oven for 8 minutes
- use the block and hammer method to finally remove the handle
- soak the tang in boiling water and scrub with soap and water to remove the rest of the glue
- melt beeswax in a double boiler, have the tang sitting in the warm water.
- syringe the beeswax into the slot, shove in the tang the hole in the handle, get beeswax everywhere, but it seems like it seated in.
- clean the handle with soap and water
- discover the blade didn't seat properly (I could hear the end of the tang rattling in the handle)
- pull out the blade
- fill the hole with beeswax, let it solidify
- heat up the tang in boiling water
- try to shove the tang in the hole. 
- pull out, heat up tang, insert into the hole, press in.
- on the third time of the above, apply too much pressure, crack the handle. at this point the tang is about half in.
- heat up some more beeswax, preheat oven again to 170F, put tang in boiling water
- syringe in fresh, melted beeswax 
- press tang into hole, goes about 60% in.
- place knife in oven, with the tip upwards for about 5 minutes
- press the blade carefully into the handle, get it to about 80% in, beeswax is pressing out of the hole
- put knife back in oven for 5 minutes
- press the blade into the handle, goes all the way in. align the blade (make sure it is centered, and "vertical")
- let the blade cool
- trim off the beeswax that was pressed out.
- success.

The blade is well set and solid now. I'm sad I messed up a beautiful handle, but it was a first time. What I would do a next time:
- fill the hole about half full with beeswax, let it set
- heat the tang
- fill the hole the rest of the way, insert tang as far as it will go with mild force
- heat knife in 170F oven for 5 minutes
- press tang in as far I can go with mild force
- repeat above two steps until the blade is seated in the handle
- make sure the alignment of blade in handle is correct as the beeswax cools.

Patience is a virtue here.


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## Bensbites (Jun 30, 2020)

If you don’t mind some tips from someone who has done this more times than I can count.
1) I keep beeswax in an old small glass jelly jar. I place the entire thing in the microwave for 1 min intervals. 
2) fill the tang full of beeswax let it cool
Completely 
3) mask off the handle with tape or plastic wrap. Do the next step outside or in a well covered area. I have plenty of cardboard shipping boxes these days. 
4) heat the tang up over a gas burner. Hold the choil, you hand well tell you long before the it gets hot enough to ruin the temper. 
5) plunge this gently into the the tang hole. I have seen other break handles by pushing too hard. I generally take a couple heating cycles to get the tang fully seated.


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## esoo (Jun 30, 2020)

Bensbites said:


> If you don’t mind some tips from someone who has done this more times than I can count.
> 1) I keep beeswax in an old small glass jelly jar. I place the entire thing in the microwave for 1 min intervals.
> 2) fill the tang full of beeswax let it cool
> Completely
> ...



As someone who has now done this once, I'm welcome to every suggestion.

At step 5, do you remove and re-insert, or do you reheat the blade and let the heat travel down to the tang?

My work was split over two days - they second day, I worked over my sink filled with cold water - hot wax hitting cold water solidified instantly making for easy cleanup.


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## Bensbites (Jun 30, 2020)

esoo said:


> As someone who has now done this once, I'm welcome to every suggestion.
> 
> At step 5, do you remove and re-insert, or do you reheat the blade and let the heat travel down to the tang?
> 
> ...


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## captaincaed (Jun 30, 2020)

+1 for this thread. I'm about to do something similar and this is great to read.


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## Dave Martell (Jun 30, 2020)

For the oven handle removers....

The heat doesn't effect the handle finish or anything else?


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## applepieforbreakfast (Jun 30, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> For the oven handle removers....
> 
> The heat doesn't effect the handle finish or anything else?



Knife I stuck in the oven just had Ho wood. Horn didn't loosen up or shift either. I suppose it would depend on the finish and glue used?
I think I set the oven to 175F / 80C.


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## kbright (Jul 1, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> For the oven handle removers....
> 
> The heat doesn't effect the handle finish or anything else?



If you are heating to melt wax or hot melt glue, it is likely to get transfered to the handle. Unless the handle is wrapped well. I don't bother wrapping, so I always do some cleanup and maybe refinish the handle while it is off.


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## guycr (Jul 13, 2020)

For the 4 or 5 handles I have a afixed using beeswax I have filled the hole with melted wax and inserted the moderately warmed tang fairly slowly to minimize spatter. I have been happy with the result so far. But reading this thread I understand that the better method is to let the wax harden and then insert the heated tang in one or two stages. I'm sorry to belabor the point but can you tell me what problem(s) you encounter with the first method? Thanks!


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## Bensbites (Jul 13, 2020)

guycr said:


> For the 4 or 5 handles I have a afixed using beeswax I have filled the hole with melted wax and inserted the moderately warmed tang fairly slowly to minimize spatter. I have been happy with the result so far. But reading this thread I understand that the better method is to let the wax harden and then insert the heated tang in one or two stages. I'm sorry to belabor the point but can you tell me what problem(s) you encounter with the first method? Thanks!



if you are happy with your results, that's all that matters. I have found the wax plug can separate from the wood some of the time if the wax is not cooled. my theory, although I haven't take the time to prove it, is that if the tang is too cold, or the wax hasn't had a chance to fully set into the wood( weak bond) you can end up with a small rattle.


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## Hz_zzzzzz (Jul 16, 2020)

I used oven method multiple times for the ones installed with hot melt glue. I also tried the hot water method and I did put the handle in a zip lock bag so that the finish wasn't ruined. I think both would work.


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