# Assessing Interest in Henkels-Kramer Passaround



## pitonboy

This post is more of a feeler rather than a formal offer yet because I don't have a Kramer in hand, but if there is a lot of interest in a Henkels-Kramer 10" carbon guyto for a passaround, I think I can get it going. On the other hand, if there is only weak interest, I would let this one go


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## knyfeknerd

I'd be up 4 it.


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## Igasho

i would absolutely positively be up for this  wanna keep my first born while i borrow the knife? :groucho:


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## EdipisReks

i really want to try one.


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## Crothcipt

I would love to try one. Have been wanting one, but with the reviews from here I am not sure if I want to.


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## pitonboy

Alright, consider this a formal sign-up list. Please PM me your mailing address to be included. Igasho, we can do Canada but it may cost you extra to get it over the border


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## chinacats

Thanks Ben, I am interested. pm sent


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## Igasho

piton, i am willing and able  Notaskinnychef lives down the street almost as well. Pm sent


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## JMJones

I am interested, pm sent


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## Von blewitt

If there is a chance it could make a detour into the Southern Hemisphere I would be super keen! Thanks Ben


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## Jmadams13

I'd be down. Sounds interesting


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## Zwiefel

Definitely interested...PM Sent...


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## K-Fed

I'm in


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## JMac

I'm down


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## pitonboy

This may be a double Kramer passaround--someone has volunteered an 8" Shun Kramer so it may be a two-for-one deal


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## Jmadams13

Sweet. Be great trying side by side


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## kalaeb

Crothcipt said:


> I would love to try one. Have been wanting one, but with the reviews from here I am not sure if I want to.



I don't recall the reviews of the blade itself being bad. If I recall (and I am working on no sleep for the past 48 hours so I could be wrong) the only negative I have personally encountered, and heard of others encountering was the scales shrinking to the point were the rivets and tang were very noticable.


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## zoze

kalaeb said:


> I don't recall the reviews of the blade itself being bad. If I recall (and I am working on no sleep for the past 48 hours so I could be wrong) the only negative I have personally encountered, and heard of others encountering was the scales shrinking to the point were the rivets and tang were very noticable.



I can confirm that there are definitely problems with mismatching scales. I was looking for the santoku of the ZK-line in a Zwilling-shop. The whole batch was affected in terms of one scale beeing to small so you could see and feel the edge of the tang. 
I decided to get the 8" gyuot instead. No tang problems but you can still feel the rivets. Doesn't bother me that much, but it's noticeable. 
In my opinion still a great knife, though.


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## cclin

pitonboy said:


> This may be a double Kramer passaround--someone has volunteered an 8" Shun Kramer so it may be a two-for-one deal





Jmadams13 said:


> Sweet. Be great trying side by side



Ben, any chance get Zwilling Kramer SG2 for passaround?? I'm more interesting compare Zwilling Kramer SG2 vs. Shun Kramer SG2 or Zwilling Kramer 52100 vs. Zwilling Kramer SG2!!


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## pitonboy

cclin said:


> Ben, any chance get Zwilling Kramer SG2 for passaround?? I'm more interesting compare Zwilling Kramer SG2 vs. Shun Kramer SG2 or Zwilling Kramer 52100 vs. Zwilling Kramer SG2!!



Only if someone feels like offering it--I don't have one


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## Mrmnms

We'll have a Shun Kramer SG2 to go along with Ben's generous offer. Thanks again Ben.


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## Mike9

I'd like to try a Kramer as well Ben.


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## kalaeb

pitonboy said:


> This may be a double Kramer passaround--someone has volunteered an 8" Shun Kramer so it may be a two-for-one deal



Hmm, Kramer v. Kramer... I feel a custody battle coming along.


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## Notaskinnychef

Sounds fun, cheers


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## marc4pt0

which shun Kramer are you guys passing around? I think everyone will enjoy the ZK, love mine. they just suck on whole potatoes, but outside of that (and the scale shrinkage), phenomenal knife. Hopefully you guys are getting the shun meiji, best stock handle ever IMHO.


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## pitonboy

Will be finalizing the list over the next day or two, so last chance to be in


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## pitonboy

List as it stands:

Mrmnms
Knyfeknerd
chinacats
K-Fed
Zwiefel
Crothcipt
Edipis Reks
JMAdams13
JMac
JMJones
Mike9

(back to me)
Igasho
Notaskinnychef


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## pitonboy

A few notes: It's first going to Mrmnms because he is helping supply one of the knives and then to Chris because he is doing the giveaway work that he does. Will try to send the knife out to Canada myself at the end as shipping will be the costliest and there is always customs to deal with

Could someone please ask K-Fed to send me his mailing address?

Ben


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## Mrmnms

I'll kick in for the postage to Canada Ben, you seem to do the "heavy lifting" on these passarounds. Thanks for your generosity.


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## Mrmnms

I only have the 6 inch Meiji. I really like it. If you'd like to give it a try , let me know Marc.


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## Igasho

pitonboy said:


> A few notes: It's first going to Mrmnms because he is helping supply one of the knives and then to Chris because he is doing the giveaway work that he does. Will try to send the knife out to Canada myself at the end as shipping will be the costliest and there is always customs to deal with
> 
> Could someone please ask K-Fed to send me his mailing address?
> 
> Ben



I am more than happy to supplement the northern shipping as well.


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## Igasho

I will be contacting Canada Customs, they are trying to charge me over $87 in customs fee's, worst case scenario they will be marked return to sender and will be coming back your way. I have never been hit with customs for something like this before  I will be calling them tomorrow on my lunch break.

Sorry guys  I just can't afford $87 in customs and then shipping costs to next person to just try out a couple super awesome knives, might be different if I was buying them and I got a really good price on them. Even then I have hard time paying customs fee's to the greedy government. 


*edit* 
Oh when I saw the package it had been ripped open by customs and had yellow customs tape ALL over it, I hope those heavy handed bastards didn't damage the blades.


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## Jmadams13

Customs blows. They damaged some vintage MTB parts when they ripped open a package I was shipping to Mexico. Still hasn't been resolved, its been 7 months


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## marc4pt0

Mrmnms said:


> I only have the 6 inch Meiji. I really like it. If you'd like to give it a try , let me know Marc.



I have the 8" Meiji, very big fan of it. Love the handle. Had the 8" ZK Damascus but ended up returning it several months later. Gots to love SLT's return policy! The Damascus was nice, but paled in comparison to the carbon. Thanks for the offer!


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## Mrmnms

Do you know what the contents are? You're on the list next for the Glestain, not the Kramers. The Kramers are on my counter as we speak. Just got it Monday night. The Glestain looks like it's at customs. Can we confirm it came from me?


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## Igasho

this is infact not the kramers it is the glestain, i just posted over in that thread :/ this sucks I just went to the post office to confirm its contents


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## pitonboy

Do you possibly have a trusted friend in Seattle who can receive it and then get it to you directly?


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## cclin

marc4pt0 said:


> I have the 8" Meiji, very big fan of it. Love the handle. Had the 8" ZK Damascus but ended up returning it several months later. Gots to love SLT's return policy! The Damascus was nice, but paled in comparison to the carbon. Thanks for the offer!


marc4pt0, I've Shun 8" Meiji & ZK 52100; but, never try ZK sg2 Damascus! I'm curious why you returned ZK sg2 Damascus but keeping/love your Shun Meiji Damascus?:scratchhead: do you think Shun Meiji Damascus has better f/f & performance than ZK sg2 Damascus??


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## marc4pt0

Nah, the ZK Damascus blade itself is a much better body of work than the shun. The Shun handle however takes the win between the two. But comparing the ZK SG2 vs the carbon, the SG2 was noticeably thicker on the spine and slightly thicker behind the edge. It was a fantastic performer, don't get me wrong, but in the end it just didn't make sense for me to keep it.I always reached for the carbon instead. The micarta handle has a MUCH better finish than that of the carbon's, but after I took to sanding and evening out the wood/rivets/spine the carbon handle became more pleasant to use.
I'm kind of a Kramer knock-off enthusiast, having at least one knife from all the runs thus far. Would have loved keeping the ZK SG2,but...

Also, I got the Shun off the Bay, so there was no returning it, and returning the ZK yielded more $$ so I could afford my Shig!


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## cclin

thanks!! that's exactly what I'm feel/think about Shun Kramer & ZK 52100 & sg2!!


marc4pt0 said:


> Nah, the ZK Damascus blade itself is a much better body of work than the shun. The Shun handle however takes the win between the two. But comparing the ZK SG2 vs the carbon, the SG2 was noticeably thicker on the spine and slightly thicker behind the edge. It was a fantastic performer, don't get me wrong, but in the end it just didn't make sense for me to keep it.I always reached for the carbon instead. The micarta handle has a MUCH better finish than that of the carbon's, but after I took to sanding and evening out the wood/rivets/spine the carbon handle became more pleasant to use.
> I'm kind of a Kramer knock-off enthusiast, having at least one knife from all the runs thus far. Would have loved keeping the ZK SG2,but...
> 
> Also, I got the Shun off the Bay, so there was no returning it, and returning the ZK yielded more $$ so I could afford my Shig!


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## marc4pt0

2 peas of the same pod we are my friend. Cheers!


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## Mrmnms

Off they go tomorrow. There's no arguing they're both aesthetically beautiful knives. Both take a great edges and hold it. I don't think I detected a significant difference after using them side by side for a week, but time will tell. Maybe less important for a home user like me as far as edge holding. I prefer the shape and weight of the Henkels Kramer to the Shun. I also like the treatment of the heel on the Henkel. Although larger, it is balanced, lighter and slightly better finished. The Shun handle is larger, some may say too large . I'm more than ok with large handles. I found food release a little better in the Shun.
I've had the Shun since it was first available. I haven't experienced the microchiping some owners talk about. It looks and feels pretty much like the day I got it as a gift ( maybe a little sharper ) I like the look of the Damascus .
The Henkel is very sexy with the brass ferrule . You do notice the pins do stick out on the handle a little.If I only had one real knife, I could be very happy with either of these, although I have a personal reference for stainless or stainless clad over carbon. But I have other knives I would reach for first in my kitchen.
Thank you Piton for the opportunity and first shot.


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## Gravy Power

can we get a pic of the Shun that's being used, as I've seen a different variation of the Shun Kramer I once onwned, most notabely in the handle.


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## Mrmnms

Gravy Power said:


> can we get a pic of the Shun that's being used, as I've seen a different variation of the Shun Kramer I once onwned, most notabely in the handle.



View attachment 14911
Unpacked it for you. Tang is exposed only on the bottom.


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## knyfeknerd

I got these a few days ago. An expert packing job, I might add.
Sooooooooooooo........
.....I'm really enjoying the Zwilling. I took both knives to work with me the 1st day to do a side by side assessment. The Shun is fine, not a bad cutter at all. However, yes all the Shun rumors are true. This thing has got more chips than a family-size bag of Lay's. I only used it on a sani-board with soft-ish veggies too.
I'm going to try to put a micro-bevel on it to remedy the situation, but until then it's staying at home.
I like the fit and feel of the Zwilling. Yes, the rivets do stick up a little-but it doesn't bother me. I would hope to own of these babies some day. It's as close as I'll ever come to owning a Kramer.
I'll post a little more after some more action.
Thanks for the passaround to everyone involved. This forum(STILL) rules!!!


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## chinacats

Knives arrived today. Will use and report back.


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## Zwiefel

hmmm...you have a lot of toys to play with right now


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## Crothcipt

Having more than 1 pass a round show up at your door the same week is a love/hate thing. Not enough time for a thorough work out for either. But you are like a kid in a candy store too.

After typing this I realised chinacats has more than pass a rounds to work with.


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## chinacats

Kramer's have shipped. Highly unusual knives, thanks for the opportunity. Both very nice, but not for me. Must say though that I never would have had a chance to try them if not for this passaround. Thing I enjoyed the most was the cut of the heel on the Zwilling. Off to K-Fed next. Thanks!


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## K-Fed

Got the knives today... Time to think of something to cook. I'm on vacation for the next 6 days so I probably won't get to use them at work but I'll figure something out.


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## K-Fed

First impressions: much thicker at the spine than I expected it would be, not a bad thing, my early run dt itk is my favorite gyuto and they are very similar as far as that goes. I touched up the edge on chosera 5k raising ever slight of a burr and finishing on my light nakayama karasu. The steel feels very very nice on the stones. Very buttery, and very similar to my misono swede. It also took a very nice hair popping edge quickly, I guess it's to be expected though from a well done carbon like 52100. While not my first experience with the steel, I had a r!chm0nd fanatic in 52100 briefly, the kramer felt very different and much more user friendly. The Kramer is also much taller than I'm used to, though not enough so that it felt awkward to use. The edge profile is nice, quite sab like so I'm good there. I did feel like the salad fixings that I cut, radishes, cucs, and onion did stick a little more than I expected. Overall however, I could defineatly see rocking out one of these in a pro setting. It has far more positive things going for it than negative.


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## K-Fed

Sharpened the Henkel and shipped the knives out today. Should make it to little rock in a couple days. I only used the zk and ill post more later as I'm at my girls place and on my phone.


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## Zwiefel

Just in time for a road trip!


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## Zwiefel

They arrived this afternoon. I did a quick unpack to verify that everything arrived as expected, then popped them in the RV for the trip out tomorrow. Going to be the sharpest RV in america for the next few weeks!

Both of them are very aesthetically pleasing...will find something big to turn into something small in the next couple of days.


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## Zwiefel

Hey guys, sorry for the long delay. I'm getting this in the mail to Crothcipt today.

The F+F on these was very good. The handles on both were much better than I'd expect by just looking. The belly on the Shun is just ridiculous though, I can't see how anybody would be OK with that in a pro environment...I'm surprised Ken Onion isn't suing for someone stealing his profile.

The Henckel's had a bit too much belly for me, but the extra height gave it a surprisingly pleasant heft. I'm not sure I'd pay the asking price for it, but I wouldn't mind using it occasionally.


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## Zwiefel

This made it in the post today. I'll be more dilligent about getting passarounds out on time in the future.


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## Crothcipt

Lol. I hope they enjoyed the trip as much as u did.

:bliss:


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## Zwiefel

Crothcipt said:


> Lol. I hope they enjoyed the trip as much as u did.
> 
> :bliss:



Well, everyone I met along the way had the chance to check them out....the uniformity of the responses was surprising...well, not really 

They certainly got an extra bit of a trip...4k extra


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## Crothcipt

Well they got a couple hundred extra miles the last couple weeks. I didn't let others know my new address, so they were in post office purgatory until today, when I picked them up. 

The Zwilling became mine before I even opened up the box. There was about a half inch sticking out of the box, that ended up sticking the palm of my left hand. It looks like it was lucky and no damage was received. 

Haven't taken a look a good look at them yet.


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## Crothcipt

Sent these out on wed. Should arrive on mon., if they didn't yesterday. I'll post my thoughts later tonight.


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## EdipisReks

I had a pink note in my mail box, yesterday, so I bet the knives are what I'll be picking up tomorrow.


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## Crothcipt

I tried both knives on a few things, used them on the line just to see how they would feel with some use. My first reaction was that each one felt like a skinning/hunting knife. The Hinkel was very heavy for all day use. I also found that there was very little room for a flat spot if you didn't want to rock, which was more usable than the Shun. 

I used the Hinkel to make a stew, and got a little reaction on the onions, turning some brown very fast. It had no problem with anything I threw at it, very comfy handle. 

Not much else I can report using them for, busy season is done for us until next summer. I did like the looks of both knives, just like the looks of the Shun better. I didn't like the geometry of either one tho. I think if I got either knife over a year ago I would have been extremely happy. But having used so many knives, and bought others that make these 2 pale in comparison. I think my idea of what a good/great cutter is slightly jaded anymore. I don't even want to go into what they cost compared to what you get. 

Thank you Pitonboy (and who ever offered the Shun) for allowing me to try these guys out. 1 grand saved there.


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## EdipisReks

The knives got here okay. I would say, Crothcript, that the reason you had issues with the flat spot on the Zwilling is because there isn't a flat spot: there is a hole in the edge about 3 inches long, from the heel to the midpoint. The knife is also a pig, towards the heel. Looks like somebody, or several somebodies, had a lot of fun using this for cinder block practice. I'll fix the profile, but I'm not sure if Ben wants me to fix the piggishness. I've only held these in stores (where I have tested the profile for holes and mis-grinds, and have never found any, particularly), and and thus I'm not super versed with the geometry. The Henckels seems like a very nice knife, other than the mis-grind that was applied to it. I really like the distal taper.


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## EdipisReks

As modeled by my wife, on my dead flat shapton glass stone:



 click for full size.

That would be a lovely flat spot in the blade, if it made contact with your board.


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## EdipisReks

Here are tip and choil pics. I sincerely doubt that the heel was like this when it was sent out. I've only seen these new, but they are pretty darn thin behind the edge, OOTB. The tip is bent, I don't think I can do much about that, but in person you can really tell how much sharpening has changed the geometry on the blade by looking at the tip. It's very strange, now.









click both for access to full size images.


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## Crothcipt

I'm glad I only stropped on felt. Even with out the hole, there just doesn't seem to be much room at all for the flat spot. I'm sure if I had it for another week I would have figured out the hole.


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## EdipisReks

The blade is half flat spot, in a non-messed up state. The way it is now, there is no flat spot.


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## jaybett

On my Kramer-Z, the flat area goes from the heel to about an inch before the knife tapers up. 

About a half inch above the edge, you can see where the taper begins. On my Kramer the taper to the edge is smooth. It appears to be a very skinny triangle. The posted image, it appears that the edge is a triangle sitting on top of the taper, instead of blending in with it. 

I hope this helps. 

Jay


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## Zwiefel

EdipisReks said:


> As modeled by my wife, on my dead flat shapton glass stone:
> 
> 
> 
> click for full size.
> 
> That would be a lovely flat spot in the blade, if it made contact with your board.



Ouch. Hope its not too much to fix.


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## EdipisReks

Zwiefel said:


> Ouch. Hope its not too much to fix.



It's a minutes work to fix the hole, but that messes up the geometry even more. I've PM'ed Ben about it. I'm happy to fix it, but the finish will never be the same. Then again, all knives need to be thinned, if they are used, and carbon is more forgiving than stainless, but a country mile.


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## Mrmnms

Where are these now?


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## EdipisReks

pitonboy has them back, due to the condition the Henckels-Kramer was in when I received it.


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## DeepCSweede

Hopefully he got it at SLT and can just return for a new one.


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## pitonboy

No, its fixed. Have a PM out to JMAdams to see if he still wants it; if he doesnt, then JMac would be next


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## Mrmnms

Hope it wasn't too bad Ben.


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## EdipisReks

pitonboy said:


> No, its fixed. Have a PM out to JMAdams to see if he still wants it; if he doesnt, then JMac would be next



i would like to be able to actually try the knife...


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## JMJones

I got them yesterday.


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