# which Jnats for max contrast??



## inferno (Oct 31, 2019)

I'm considering getting 1 or 2 jnats for doing bevels with. 
I would like the darkest jigane and the brightest hagane possible.  

Which stones would get me very good contrast? I know there are probably quite many of that will, but lets say 1 coarse-ish one and one fine one. I'm looking for a sure fire way of doing this.
I have seen some quite impressive pics on here so i guess you guys know how to do this.

I have a few 1k synths that give so-so contrast, the king hyper 1k for instance. but the surface is just too coarse, i would like that but with a much finer surface. 

is it recommended to start with coarser one that creates good contrast and then step up to a finer one that does not remove it or can i use whatever as long as the finishing stone creates good contrast??

I guess i would like to know which mines/stratas/hardnesses that are mostly used for this, or those that are known to do it exceptionally well.

aframes/jns/watanabe are the primary shops i'm looking at now.

the cheaper the better obviously.


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## RDalman (Oct 31, 2019)

In what angle/ light? It's a impossible question imo. You kindof have to play around a little with it to see what you like/if you like the process. And then it's far from all up to the stone, maybe even most is dependant on your technique and progression.
Maybe try getting something midgrit, and something ~suita. For budget, smaller stones like koppa and mount them on wood base.


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## RDalman (Oct 31, 2019)

You can make kasumi with both hard and soft stones. Soft will be more forgiving but also take away some potential for better precision. I prefer on the hard side stones because I feel like this. Easy to wreck edge geo using soft stones.


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## SilverSwarfer (Oct 31, 2019)

Finger Stones.


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## inferno (Oct 31, 2019)

RDalman said:


> In what angle/ light? It's a impossible question imo. You kindof have to play around a little with it to see what you like/if you like the process. And then it's far from all up to the stone, maybe even most is dependant on your technique and progression.
> Maybe try getting something midgrit, and something ~suita. For budget, smaller stones like koppa and mount them on wood base.



any specific midgrits that are good for this? i see aotos/ikarashis/aizus/natsuyas seem popular. would these be a good starting point?

I have read up a bit lately and found out that uchigumoris seems to enhance this contrast well. but obviously these stones are always expensive.


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## inferno (Oct 31, 2019)

what do you guys use for good kasumi contrast?? what has worked for you?


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## RDalman (Oct 31, 2019)

inferno said:


> what do you guys use for good kasumi contrast?? what has worked for you?


Super flat and even bevel, the coarse work is 96%, then I just go through hard synths and finish on hard suita for the contrast myself. Raise some slurry for the final mudwrestle if necessary.


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## RDalman (Oct 31, 2019)

The uchi I have is softer and coarser than I like but do contrast sure. Maybe ~4k


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## inferno (Oct 31, 2019)

i see. do you use any nagura for the slurry or just a diamond plate? 

would you recommend a hard uchi over a soft for general use?

i just tried to bring out some contrast with a few 1k's i have here. jns and chosera/ naniwa pro 800. only the 800 made some contrast. I could get the finish even and all but its a bit underwhelming to be honest. its just dull and matte all over. on white/iron. gonna try out the king hyper next.


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## RDalman (Oct 31, 2019)

inferno said:


> i see. do you use any nagura for the slurry or just a diamond plate?
> 
> would you recommend a hard uchi over a soft for general use?
> 
> i just tried to bring out some contrast with a few 1k's i have here. jns and chosera/ naniwa pro 800. only the 800 made some contrast. I could get the finish even and all but its a bit underwhelming to be honest. its just dull and matte all over. on white/iron. gonna try out the king hyper next.


Diamond or nagura don't make huge difference imo. I don't even go for contrast on the synths, just on the finisher, fine natural. Very different with a decent polish finish on a fine natural.


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## inferno (Oct 31, 2019)

i see. thanks for taking time to explain.

i did some experiments here with my synths.

king hyper 1k. a bit darker jigane than the nanipro800 BUT it was full of these silver streaks/scratches, and the longer i used it the worse it got, completely unusable imo. and its a quite well used stone so no top crust on it.
coticule nagura slurry (thick) on jns1k. erased all contrast.
coticule nagura slurry, thick (belgian blue side) on a glass 4k. restored about half of the contrast from the king (and no streaks). and it made the hagane very polished so thats cool. 

but yeah it has become clear i need at least 1 good jnat for this. gonna have to read up on this obviously.


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## M1k3 (Oct 31, 2019)

I have no idea but what about the Oouchi and Hideriyama from JKI? Just curious as they aren't terribly expensive and from a good vendor.


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## nutmeg (Oct 31, 2019)

A soft finisher with relative coarse grain size should give you good results f you‘re looking for contrast in color.
Maybe 2-3K like a very soft suita or uchigumori. I guess finer than 3k, the contrast decreases.
Btw uchigumori gives a whiter ha for the same „grit“ and „hardness“.
My eyes see Ikarashi< Aizu< Aoto are from 1 to 2,5k. I would prefer synth for this.


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## geoff_nocon (Nov 1, 2019)

Best contrast in my experience is using both synth and a good soft hazuya. Bring the core up to mirror on a synth then darken the cladding using the uchi. A good hazuya for kasumi polishing shouldnt alter the finish on the hardened steel.


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## inferno (Nov 1, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> I have no idea but what about the Oouchi and Hideriyama from JKI? Just curious as they aren't terribly expensive and from a good vendor.



everything from the US will be (too) expensive for me. The SEK-USD rate used to be 1/7 or so and now its 1/10 since our country is, well, lets just say, severely mismanaged. on all levels.


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## inferno (Nov 1, 2019)

thanks guys. i see there are more than 1 way to skin a cat. 

on the jns site they have some koppas. https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/for-knives/?sort=priceasc
aiiwatani koppa and aiiwatani nashiji kiita, well the cheaper ones. 

do you think these would be good for this? would any of the more expensive stones from that very page be quite promisng for this? if so which ones?

i'm quite tempted to just do as robin says and get a hardish suita though. i have read good things about suitas.


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## RDalman (Nov 1, 2019)

yes the koppas from jns should be great also. Björn a friend smith got a aiiwatani koppa like that that's really nice.


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## Barry's Knives (Nov 1, 2019)

Uchigomori stones are the most famous, and arguably easiest stones to achieve this contrast. Softer stones are easier to use, harder stones will leave a more refined finish. As has been mentioned already, fingerstones are certainly a secret weapon here. You can use synths up to a polishing stone and then let uchi fingerstones do the rest. In terms of wanting that contrast and doing it on a budget, start with finger stones which wont cost you more than 100 dollars maximum, then you can invest in awesedo stones if you want to. I got decent uchigomori fingerstones off ebay for 30 bucks. Havent looked back.


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## inferno (Nov 1, 2019)

cool, then i probably try that first! thank you very much.

edit: this was a reply to robins post above..


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## Barry's Knives (Nov 1, 2019)

inferno said:


> thanks guys. i see there are more than 1 way to skin a cat.
> 
> on the jns site they have some koppas. https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/for-knives/?sort=priceasc
> aiiwatani koppa and aiiwatani nashiji kiita, well the cheaper ones.
> ...


Koppas are a good way to go, but it would be a far better learning curve to go with a softer one, especially with aiiwatani which can be extremely fine.


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## inferno (Nov 1, 2019)

Ok anything in specific from the jns site you think would be better suited for me?

not gonna buy a 2000€$ stone though.  

i have quite a lot of experience in sharpening and finishing knives. i have flattened the bevels on all knives i have ever owned. i have about 30 stones or so. i guess i'm fairly experienced with even ultra hard stones such as shaptons (this is how i finish knives now). i think i'm fairly adaptive.


barry can you tell me a bit more about aiiwatanis in general? what are they good for and bad for?


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## Barry's Knives (Nov 1, 2019)

inferno said:


> Ok anything in specific from the jns site you think would be better suited for me?
> 
> not gonna buy a 2000€$ stone though.
> 
> ...


Aiiwatani would work, it's just they can be quite hard, making it trickier to get an even finish if you havent used naturals before. For that reason I would suggest the level 3 koppa from jns rather than the level 4. For best contrast from everything on the site, my money would be in the ohira level 3.


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## nutmeg (Nov 1, 2019)

Yes if you‘re looking for good results and with only one Jnat, take a soft one. Otherwise and depending on what you are getting, a too hard stone could make your blade look scratchy and with little contrast.
And if you‘re lucky with the softer stone you won‘t need finger stones in a first time.


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## Barry's Knives (Nov 1, 2019)

I've just seen nutmeg has posted a bunch of pretty nice looking uchigomori on BST... maybe he can chime in if theres any there he could recommend?


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## nutmeg (Nov 1, 2019)

Barry's Knives said:


> I've just seen nutmeg has posted a bunch of pretty nice looking uchigomori on BST... maybe he can chime in if theres any there he could recommend?



If Inferno means *brightest hagane*, then 3) or alternatives. Very challenging to get brighter without being scratchy.
3)etc. give a totally matte surface so you don't have any reflections on the blade, only shadows. The light is trapped. You can get rainbow colors with the good light and angle of view.
Like on a 2,5k synth but scratch free.

A finer finish is easily doable with 2)etc. as single Jnat.
Contrast would be almost equal: slightly less on color, slightly more on texture. I find it is more esthetic on clad but I couldn't read something with semi-mirror core in Inferno's OP so 2) may not match with his project.

Jizuya are too fine and the Narutaki is too coarse for a single Jnat IMO.


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## inferno (Nov 4, 2019)

i'm currently considering a karasu stone for like 1 grand from jns. lol. i really feel i need to have it. the rabbit hole is also a black hole with good gravity it seems. 

not gonna get it though. for some weird reason a 500bux stone seems completely normal all the sudden. even though i dont really know enough about them. thats like 8-10 premium synths worth.


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## SilverSwarfer (Nov 4, 2019)

I convinced myself to get a 1k+ JNS stone back in April. Probably overpaid but I got something incredible that has really developed my skills and perspective. 

I’m still learning from this stone, this past week I broke it out and for the first time finished some Gyuto edges (instead of solely kiraha polishing). I am floored by the results I got. Toothy, super extra crisp apexes that are (to me) impossible with any combination of synths I’ve ever tried. 

so jump in that rabbit hole. Both feet first!


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## valgard (Nov 4, 2019)

inferno said:


> i'm currently considering a karasu stone for like 1 grand from jns. lol. i really feel i need to have it. the rabbit hole is also a black hole with good gravity it seems.
> 
> not gonna get it though. for some weird reason a 500bux stone seems completely normal all the sudden. even though i dont really know enough about them. thats like 8-10 premium synths worth.



yep, that's exactly how it works. Sadly I'm waaaay past that point and 1k+ stones populate my current collection


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## tgfencer (Nov 4, 2019)

valgard said:


> yep, that's exactly how it works. Sadly I'm waaaay past that point and 1k+ stones populate my current collection



Haha, likewise. I sometimes worry that if I died suddenly, my poor wife would sell them for a pittance or use them to line a path in the yard. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe I should put into my will that I want all my jnats made into an awesome tombstone/whetstone smorgasbord and ask that there always be a spray bottle full of water resting on my grave. At the very least it would force my damn hypothetical children to visit me if they wanted to use my knives.

But to back to the point OP, I think everyone would agree that you should try grabbing a few different $100-300 rocks on the way down the hole, rather than going face first for that glory stone at the very bottom. 

You can do all the research you want, but at some point, much like knives, it’s ‘a gotta try them all to figure out what works for you’ kind of game to jnat polishes/edges.


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## kayman67 (Nov 4, 2019)

SilverSwarfer said:


> I convinced myself to get a 1k+ JNS stone back in April. Probably overpaid but I got something incredible that has really developed my skills and perspective.
> 
> I’m still learning from this stone, this past week I broke it out and for the first time finished some Gyuto edges (instead of solely kiraha polishing). I am floored by the results I got. Toothy, super extra crisp apexes that are (to me) impossible with any combination of synths I’ve ever tried.
> 
> so jump in that rabbit hole. Both feet first!



This is why I've started to finish on a natural. Gives that something that was missing. But getting that natural is not as easy as it is for me write about it.


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## nutmeg (Nov 4, 2019)

tgfencer said:


> But to back to the point OP, I think everyone would agree that you should try grabbing a few different $100-300 rocks on the way down the hole, rather than going face first for that glory stone at the very bottom.
> 
> You can do all the research you want, but at some point, much like knives, it’s ‘a gotta try them all to figure out what works for you’ kind of game to jnat polishes/edges.



Good tools are important, no question. But I believe an experienced sharpener/polisher would get much better results with a $300 stone than a newbie with a $2k stone.
The magic stone doesn't exist: for any sharpener/polisher, newbie or experienced, three well chosen $300 Jnats are much better than any $2k stone IMO.


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## tgfencer (Nov 4, 2019)

nutmeg said:


> Good tools are important, no question. But I believe an experienced sharpener/polisher would get much better results with a $300 stone than a newbie with a $2k stone.
> The magic stone doesn't exist: for any sharpener/polisher, newbie or experienced, three well chosen $300 Jnats are much better than any $2k stone IMO.



Sure, can’t argue with that, there is no replacement for skill or technique (and I say that as someone who frequently lacks both).


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## erezj (Nov 5, 2019)

I have a hypothesis I had not encounter before, it might have some merits, it might be nothing, appreciate input from the pro's.

I totally agree that Natural Vs Synthetic is a major difference in the contrast due to the different scratch patterns (Synthetics being much more 'V' shaped grooves.)
I also agree about the difference between a Natural ~2k Vs a Natural ~6K due to the depth of the scratches and how light is reflected back.

My hypothesis assumes that there is another major player in the contrast quest, acidity.

each natural stone, when being abraded (by sharpening back and forth) and mixed with water (added during the sharpening) creates a slurry, this very slurry has a PH<7 (my assumption), basically you get a light acid. 
This very light acid etches the knife ( similar to coffee/vinegar/muriatic acid) and has some contribution to the contrast between the soft and hard steel.

doe this make sense?


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## valgard (Nov 5, 2019)

erezj said:


> I have a hypothesis I had not encounter before, it might have some merits, it might be nothing, appreciate input from the pro's.
> 
> I totally agree that Natural Vs Synthetic is a major difference in the contrast due to the different scratch patterns (Synthetics being much more 'V' shaped grooves.)
> I also agree about the difference between a Natural ~2k Vs a Natural ~6K due to the depth of the scratches and how light is reflected back.
> ...


Yes, on top of depth, shape, and length of scratches, there's absolutely a chemical component to how different stones finish too. That chemical component part is likely dominated by acidity; however, that's likely not the only factor involved in that either.


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## inferno (Nov 6, 2019)

geoff_nocon said:


> Best contrast in my experience is using both synth and a good soft hazuya. Bring the core up to mirror on a synth then darken the cladding using the uchi. A good hazuya for kasumi polishing shouldnt alter the finish on the hardened steel.



on the watanabe hardness scale what would you think is a "good soft hazuya". he has several to choose from. 37-51HSD (i'm looking at the cheaper ones from no 20-24 or so. not ohira ones.
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone6.htm

also looking at these here http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone4.htm
especially the 2 uchigumori and green/yellow Aisa layer Maruo-yama ones. the aisas are about 40HSD. i think the green and yellow stones are very beautiful and if i can both get good contrast and a nice looking stone i will probably get one of these (aaand maybe a cheap uchi from the other page) but now i see there is ton of uchis in the bst...

well yeah, anyone willing to speculate on the possible kasumi effect of the watanabe stones above?? especially the Aisa layer green/yellow ones.

the more i learn, the less i know...


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## inferno (Nov 6, 2019)

Barry's Knives said:


> Uchigomori stones are the most famous, and arguably easiest stones to achieve this contrast. Softer stones are easier to use, harder stones will leave a more refined finish. As has been mentioned already, fingerstones are certainly a secret weapon here. You can use synths up to a polishing stone and then let uchi fingerstones do the rest. In terms of wanting that contrast and doing it on a budget, start with finger stones which wont cost you more than 100 dollars maximum, then you can invest in awesedo stones if you want to. I got decent uchigomori fingerstones off ebay for 30 bucks. Havent looked back.



i was under the impression that "the more mud/softer stone" the more contrast. And in my experience you have to work up a mud. and i just fail to see how this could be done effectively with finger stones. I have never used finger stones though. i'm just trying to make sense of it all. but I think i still want a real bench stone. whatever it now might be in the end.


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## inferno (Nov 6, 2019)

valgard said:


> yep, that's exactly how it works. Sadly I'm waaaay past that point and 1k+ stones populate my current collection





SilverSwarfer said:


> I convinced myself to get a 1k+ JNS stone back in April. Probably overpaid but I got something incredible that has really developed my skills and perspective.
> 
> I’m still learning from this stone, this past week I broke it out and for the first time finished some Gyuto edges (instead of solely kiraha polishing). I am floored by the results I got. Toothy, super extra crisp apexes that are (to me) impossible with any combination of synths I’ve ever tried.
> 
> so jump in that rabbit hole. Both feet first!



how many jnats (or synths) did it take before you went above the 1k border? 
I can imagine some time buying a 1k stone. but for me then it gotta be a stone that i will have the rest of my life. it has to be that "good" whatever now good is. 
i see watanabe has 5k stones... 

am i being crazy for even considering 4-500€$ stones as my first (and hopefully only) jnats??

i mean i know quality stuff cost money. they always do. and i almost never get crap just because its cheap. i rather buy quality once. i'm that kinda guy. 

But now i feel like i'm asking for advice from the staff off a booze store on how to stop drinking.


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## Hanmak17 (Nov 6, 2019)

inferno said:


> everything from the US will be (too) expensive for me. The SEK-USD rate used to be 1/7 or so and now its 1/10 since our country is, well, lets just say, severely mismanaged. on all levels.



+1 on the finger stones!!!! A cheaper and perhaps easier way to achieve the effect is to polish with a progression of sand papers (search it, there is a whole thread on this), then use a progression of softer finger stones. It is almost impossible to F' this up, is cheaper then experimenting with jnats and doesn't require a perfectly flat bevel. If suffering the pain and cost of discovery is your thing, do what many do and fall down the rabbit hole. Just be prepared for a lot of disappointment early on.

PS: your talking to the right people in @valgard & @tgfencer & @nutmeg


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## inferno (Nov 6, 2019)

Hanmak17 said:


> is cheaper then experimenting with jnats and doesn't require a perfectly flat bevel.
> 
> If suffering the pain and cost of discovery is your thing, do what many do and fall down the rabbit hole. Just be prepared for a lot of disappointment early on.
> 
> PS: your talking to the right people in @valgard & @tgfencer & @nutmeg



all my knives have flat bevels. thats the first thing i do pretty much.

2: yeah thats why i'm asking here first. to dampen the fall.

3 it seems all the pros are here  so now its just up to me to interpret the written text hehe. and this is the hardest part of it all of course, as always.


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## Hanmak17 (Nov 6, 2019)

erezj said:


> I have a hypothesis I had not encounter before, it might have some merits, it might be nothing, appreciate input from the pro's.
> 
> I totally agree that Natural Vs Synthetic is a major difference in the contrast due to the different scratch patterns (Synthetics being much more 'V' shaped grooves.)
> I also agree about the difference between a Natural ~2k Vs a Natural ~6K due to the depth of the scratches and how light is reflected back.
> ...



Yes it does, and I have witnessed this myself with one of my hard Uchi's and an Aizu I own. Some stones have what is I suspect (haven't tested just guessing) a high Ph level (more alkaline then acidic). If mud is left on a blade it will tarnish the blade. But that is different then the abrasive pattern of the mud and the resulting color brought out in the softer steel. I'd defer to the experts here, but each stone/steel combo has it's own color, which is further influenced by pressure and technique. Thus the worm hole analogy.


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## Hanmak17 (Nov 6, 2019)

inferno said:


> all my knives have flat bevels. thats the first thing i do pretty much.
> 
> 2: yeah thats why i'm asking here first. to dampen the fall.
> 
> 3 it seems all the pros are here  so now its just up to me to interpret the written text hehe. and this is the hardest part of it all of course, as always.



LMAO, you just think your bevels are flat.....


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## inferno (Nov 6, 2019)

flat enough for me at least : ) they actually are quite flat. 
i do them on diamond plates, flattened 220ies, 500eds, 1ks, 2ks, 4ks. up to 12k sometimes (mostly shaptons). and then it really shows if you are off. i actually did quite a few up to 12k but then reverted back to like 4k because 12k is not actually a real mirror finsih. i wanted mirror finish on my bevels then. but now i want dramatic contrast instead. and the heavy lifting is already done.


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## inferno (Nov 6, 2019)

btw you can test ph with one of those cheap digital meters, they cost like 30bux. just work up some slurry and mix it with already ph tested water, then measure it again. either it goes up or down. my money would be on absolutely zero difference though. or at most like 0,5 ph up or down (and thats almost nothing). ph means potential of hydrogen. hydrogen is acidic.


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## nutmeg (Nov 6, 2019)

inferno said:


> i was under the impression that "the more mud/softer stone" the more contrast. And in my experience you have to work up a mud. and i just fail to see how this could be done effectively with finger stones. I have never used finger stones though. i'm just trying to make sense of it all. but I think i still want a real bench stone. whatever it now might be in the end.



Actually, you can much mud and get very low contrast.
My soft uchigumori #3 gives tons of mud but you won't never get great contrast on kasumi.


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## inferno (Nov 6, 2019)

i see.

which ones of the ones you have for sale would be good for me (and what i want to achieve) you think?
you can recommend several ones 

also does soft stainless cladding get dark too with any of them? does it usually do this with any uchigumoris? that would be cool.

can you speculate on the soft green/yellow Maruoyama stones from watanabe? better or worse kasumi than uchigumori you think?


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## Barry's Knives (Nov 6, 2019)

inferno said:


> i was under the impression that "the more mud/softer stone" the more contrast. And in my experience you have to work up a mud. and i just fail to see how this could be done effectively with finger stones. I have never used finger stones though. i'm just trying to make sense of it all. but I think i still want a real bench stone. whatever it now might be in the end.


Honestly, it sounds crazy but fingerstones give the most even finish. They're forgiving to any undulations on the blade road and likewise dont leave any smeary marks. Take a look at jns Instagram from today, he polished an entire tanaka with kiita stones and the contrast is pretty remarkable. A pack of those is less than 50 bucks and you could use them after your fine grit synthetic. Dont feel like you have to buy all your stones at once. But fingerstones will certainly work really well, work really easily and cost the least anyway.


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## kayman67 (Nov 6, 2019)

inferno said:


> i was under the impression that "the more mud/softer stone" the more contrast. And in my experience you have to work up a mud. and i just fail to see how this could be done effectively with finger stones. I have never used finger stones though. i'm just trying to make sense of it all. but I think i still want a real bench stone. whatever it now might be in the end.



It's a bit the opposite. Best contrast I got with harder stones, mirror/different shades of haze. 

Are you sure those bevels were supposed to be fully flat? Most are convex. There might be some low spots to take out, but I'm not sure about making the entire bevel flat.
With finger stones, you don't even have to take care of the low spots, as they adapt quite easily.


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## inferno (Nov 26, 2019)

hello fellow sharpeners.

i now i have a small medium hardness uchigumori. ohira. mine is darker gray/green when dry and dark green when wet.

I have done some testing with it this last week. on both kurosaki AS/SS, yoshikane skd/SS, hinoura white2/iron. and the best results comes from the white/iron. what a surprise. but the kurosaki was very good too. the yoshikane was worthless for this.

i tried to do get some good contrast out of the following: 
king hyper 1k. gets very dark but scratchy. unusable
naniwa pro 800, gets aaalmost as dark and no scratches.
naniwa pro 2k. very good actually. 
cleancut kaitayama 4k. 
glass 6k hc gray. 

i chose these ones because i knew from before they had the capacity to do some contrasty stuff.

vs the uchigumori.

ok i did not shoot the king or the chosera 800 since i have pics of these in the 1k shootout thread. and the finish is too coarse for me anyway.

2k chosera/pro
wet 
and dry, completely dry, no film left.











big difference there.

then as a reference. i'll throw in the uchigumori dry.







the uchi has a lot higher polish here but the camera can't catch it. it is what it is. 

ok moving up to kit 4k. 
first: wet blade
then half blade dry and half with water film still on it.










then the 6k glass hc.
first the end result and then what i looked like in between. the whole blade infact turned to mirror then back to hazy again when lightening off the pressure.
the edge of the 6k hc is almost a true mirror. its at least twice quad as much mirror as the uchi imo. 











here you can see that this stone can take everything to mirror if you want to. the mirrors are creeping close to each other here. or away actually. 






then a reference after all synth sharpening was done. the uchigimori again.





i think the uchi looks good. but its not really shiny and polished. the contrast is good for its level of polish though. the 6k hc result is quite striking in reality. maybe i could have gone a few minutes more the whole blade would have been the same finish as in the 4th pic up. but hey its a test. 

also i noticed the uchi was the by far easiest to get this kinda finish off. it never creates silver lines or anything. and its very fast at doing what it does. always the same result pretty much. unlike the synths. these have a learning period.


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## CiderBear (Nov 27, 2019)

@inferno Thank you for making the thread and documenting your experience!


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