# limited by knife quality or skill?



## newboy (Jul 17, 2014)

Hi

I've got a 250, 1k and 4k set of king waterstones.

I tried freehand sharpening with the 250 and 1k. I sharpened a real cheep supermarket knife that was warn down past almost all of the bevel. This took some serious time as it was a 8in chef knife. After I was done I tried it out and was pretty pleased with the result. It would cut cleanly through paper and card, though was a little difficult to start the cut from the edge of the paper.

I had another go with the 3in utility knife, again, just as warn. This time I finished it off with the 4k stone, and the edge was about the same, apart from it would cut from the edges silightly easier.

Running the same test with my newish 8.5in victorinox chef knife, with a factory edge, the edge on the victorinox is better than the edge I was able to put on my cheep knifes.

Should I keep practicing on my cheap knives, trying the match the edge on the victorinox, or do you think I've reached the limit of what can be achived with the crap steel, and its time I tried seeing if I can improve the edge on the victorinox? (or atleast not make it worse lol)

Thanks


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## Lizzardborn (Jul 17, 2014)

[video=youtube;CXLaE1JvQ94]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXLaE1JvQ94[/video]

Probably skill.


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## newboy (Jul 17, 2014)

Fair enough. not overly sure the video is relevent... Though its pretty cool none the less. I wanted to know how far low quality steel could go, not what can be done with a ghetto sharpening solution. will be glad I watched that if a zombie apocalypse happens though.

I may have a go with the 4k stone again later tonight, and see if I can refine the finish a bit.

I wasnt really sure how much time to spend on the 4k stone. I did it until I made a burr on both sides of the blade with the 250g and 1000g, should I be aiming for the same with the 4k stone? I just went for a couple mins each side to polish up the edge a bit, presumed a burr wasnt going to happen on the finer grits, though I've based that on nothing...


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## cabarete_cub (Jul 17, 2014)

I'm still yet to see a video of a substandard knife being made really sharp (as opposed to using substandard sharpening materials).
There's one where Murray Carter sharpens a spoon to the point he can shave with it. But again, it is a "white steel" spoon
made my Mr. Carter himself.

And to comment on the topic per se, I feel we are in the same boat, PO. There are people who would start learning to sharpen
with attempts to change geometry of high-end handmade knives. And then there are us preparing for a year before we dare
to touch as much as Victorinox. There are arguments on both sides of the idea of starting with cheap stainless. You might find
some comments in this thread relevant to your question:
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/18570-Inexpensive-knives-to-teach-myself-hand-sharpening-with
But. Since I got my first (and so far only) J-knife, all cheap SS ones went to the deep drawer. Why? There are no fun. To use.
To sharpen. To take care of. To hold. And the J-knife ($30 incl ship from ebay)? I sharpen it every day. Sometimes twice if
I have time. Because it is fun, and when in doubt, I can be always sure it is me and my technique which needs to be improved,
not the steel or the stones. I'm a beginner, like you, so FWIW, and good luck.


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## Benuser (Jul 17, 2014)

Don't waste your time and stones with poor stainless steel. Get a simple basic carbon steel blade -- Old Hickory, Opinel, simple Robert Herder, K-Sabatier. And have fun.


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## panda (Jul 17, 2014)

4k stone on crap knife is going to make it dull, not refine it.


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## LKH9 (Jul 17, 2014)

See how all these crap knives glide through A4 paper like butter. The 2$ Santoku drops through by only the weight. The other 2 thin looking knives were once serrated for cutting steaks, I removed all the serrations and gave them razor edge.

[video=youtube;uAKj4w1uIrM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAKj4w1uIrM[/video]


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## osakajoe (Jul 17, 2014)

Don't bother with cheap steel. You won't get a great edge.


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## LKH9 (Jul 18, 2014)

Seriously, in my life, I have made 3 people cut their own fingers with the crap "Made in China/Thailand" knives that I sharpen for them. Sometimes, people just need to hurt themselves to know how to treat a knife with respect and care. Those "Ouch that's sharp!" experience.

That also shows how sharp any kinds of knives can get. Have some confidence and perseverance in yourself please, and please, don't use these luxurious waterstones for crap knives, just use SILICON CARBIDE(carborundum) or DIAMOND plates, + Oil Stone for finishing. Cheap stones for cheap knives, that simple. And use try to give your knives a microbevel, that's very crucial.

You don't have to listen to Mr.cabarete_cub, I bet he will never achieve that level to sharpen any kinds of steel. No offense but, "a bad carpenter always blames his tools".

The only difference between crap knives and good knives is the edge retention and the level of sharpness they can reach. Cheap knives has a sharpness limit, but that's more than enough for ordinary kitchen use, enough to draw blood easily by careless users.


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## newboy (Jul 18, 2014)

Interesting. A bit of a conflict of opinions in the thread.

the little knife is sharp enough to be usful now, so I'll leave that. I will try the other couple of bigger knives from the cheap set, and see if I can put a better edge onto them than my last effort.

Your video of your paper test certainly shows that your cheap knives are sharper than mine, so there is probably more to be achived with mine.

I can gently run my finger over the edge without getting cut. I will not rest untill blood is shed lol.


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## JohnnyChance (Jul 18, 2014)

I generally don't like to waste my time sharpening cheap steel mainly because it isn't enjoyable. Nice steel has better feedback and is actually fun to sharpen. You end up sharpening more and getting better faster, rather than getting annoyed and frustrated and avoiding it all together. It sounds like you have the basics down and are getting good results, move on to a basic carbon knife like mentioned or just sharpen your Vic. It's not like it is a custom made damascus knife you are afraid to mess up. If it gets some funky spots or scratches, so be it.

And yes, you can get cheap steel sharp. But the edge retention is very poor and usually thinning them is gummy and tedious. In addition to level of sharpness and retention, cheap steel is also usually difficult to deburr. Often when I see or sharpen cheap knives that are very sharp, they simply have a well aligned burr hanging on for dear life that feels wicked sharp. Another reason why the edge retention is poor, once you start using it the burr moves and then it is dull.


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## mhpr262 (Jul 19, 2014)

Yep, burrs are a big problem. I had no idea how much until I started pulling each knife through a piece of wood after sharpening. If the nick the edge leaves is still just a little bit "smudgy" you still have a burr. Also, try stropping. I use some cheap polishing compound on a piece of balsawood (just a few cents all in all) and it makes a huge difference. I can easily get my Wüsthofs and Victorinoxes and IKEA knives to shaving sharpness.


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## LKH9 (Jul 19, 2014)

mhpr262 said:


> Yep, burrs are a big problem. I had no idea how much until I started pulling each knife through a piece of wood after sharpening. If the nick the edge leaves is still just a little bit "smudgy" you still have a burr. Also, try stropping. I use some cheap polishing compound on a piece of balsawood (just a few cents all in all) and it makes a huge difference. I can easily get my Wüsthofs and Victorinoxes and IKEA knives to shaving sharpness.



Yes, stropping, even without any compound, is still highly effective. My steak knife here is almost hair-splitting sharp from the strops. It's become a straight razor.


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## cabarete_cub (Jul 20, 2014)

Apologies for other forum members for posting this silly video (I don't happen to think that cutting A4 is worth the bandwidth), but I am persistently challenged by one of
the Senior Members:

June, 26


> Well, let us know how well your new carbon knives sharpen when you obtain them. Keep us updated. Post videos of the results if possible.


July, 4


> So, can your new knives glide through paper yet?


July, 18


LKH9 said:


> You don't have to listen to Mr.cabarete_cub, I bet he will never achieve that level to sharpen any kinds of steel. No offense but, "a bad carpenter always blames his tools".



and I felt that I should somehow reply, so here it goes:
[video=youtube_share;ymtolz9ULcA]http://youtu.be/ymtolz9ULcA[/video]

So, LKH9 you know what happens when Senior challenges self-confessed novice and loses, do you?


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## Ruso (Jul 20, 2014)




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## LKH9 (Jul 20, 2014)

> So, LKH9 you know what happens when Senior challenges self-confessed novice and loses, do you?



I'm sorry, but this video is not so relevant to what I ''insulted'' you here in this particular topic.. The knife you're using there is a Japanese carbon knife, which is very easy to sharpen. You should post this video at your original topic.



> I bet he will never achieve that level to sharpen any kinds of steel(mainly stainless steel). No offense but, "a bad carpenter always blames his tools".



Any relevance? Good video by the way, even though not relevant to my post.



> So, LKH9 you know what happens when Senior challenges self-confessed novice and loses, do you?



Why I'm pissed here is because you're telling another beginner that it's almost impossible to sharpen cheap knives, which sounds really ridiculous to hobbyist sharpeners. Let's say someone sees you sharpening, "Oh wow, you're so good at sharpening, will you sharpen one of my dull knives?" You:"Let's see, ****, this is a stainless knife, no it can't be sharpened!" Admirer:"WTH??" 

No offense, but just because you can't do it yourself, doesn't mean others can't do it. This is also the 1st time I hear one needs a top quality knife just to learn sharpening. 

Challenge? What challenge? I'm just sharing stuff with OP here, I didn't challenge anyone.:threadjacked:


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## cabarete_cub (Jul 20, 2014)

> I bet he will never achieve that level to sharpen any kinds of steel(mainly stainless steel). No offense but, "a bad carpenter always blames his tools".



Oh, man. You might add interpretations, but you can't change the quotes. You can't put stuff that was never said in quotes (like "insulted") either. 



> Why I'm pissed here is because you're telling another beginner that it's almost impossible to sharpen cheap knives



Where? (direct quotes, please)


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## Mrmnms (Jul 20, 2014)

Back to topic please


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## cabarete_cub (Jul 20, 2014)

Happy to oblige.

I'd compare practicing with cheap SS to football players putting extra weights for the workout. While useful, not for the beginners. Not before one gets a good feel of the game.
For more advanced ones, like LKH9 - yes, absolutely. It is important and mostly overlooked area. I hope I'd get there one day.


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## ThEoRy (Jul 21, 2014)

Sharpening or practicing on cheapo crappy knives is a waste of time. I mean what's the point? If I sharpen it to 5k it fails after 1 cut. Sharpen it to 1k it fails after 2 cuts. You don't get to learn how to properly develop a sharp, strong and lasting edge. YOU ARE NOT LEARNING! In addition you get discouraged by your quickly failing edges.


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## cabarete_cub (Jul 21, 2014)

The only immediate value I see in using cheap (SS or otherwise, but nowadays cheap seems to automatically mean SS)
knives for learning many aspects of sharpening is that one overcomes fear. Want to put a hummer to the knife? Fine! 
Want to learn to operate a sander? No problemo. Your hands are not shaking, because your loss is capped with $2, and
you don't have to observe the (likely ugly) consequences of your experiment and wish you never touched that piece
with your clumsy hands.

Will you learn everything you need to work with good steel? No. Can you learn something (being conscious about
the deficiencies of the material at hand)? I think why not.


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## nerologic (Jul 21, 2014)

Just to chime in here, I think two salient points can be made that satisfy everybody.

LKH9 is relatively new here, barely 3 months in (so don't feel like a long-time senior member is picking on you cab_club, most forum regulars are 100% friendly) but is damned good at sharpening stainless by holding very accurate angle using jigs or his hands. He has a good method that is probably not typical. It isn't as easy as sharpening carbon. I think we can agree, then, that it takes skill to do so. But it seems he also habitually picks fights around here that are rooted in that skill, insisting that various folks are wrong because he is good at sharpening soft stainless. That could merely be how he phrased things (as I interpret them), but most folks around here are quite welcoming to new folks, especially the sharpening gods of the forum whose skill is unparalleled.

I think it still stands that it is nice to learn on carbon and there's no reason to look down on that. I personally have made a point to fix up old carbons and gift them to people who want sharp knives because most stainless just doesn't feel worth the effort for the edge retention, as it dulls so quickly. But maybe I am just too lazy to get soft stainless scary sharp like LKH9 does (impressively successfully). It is clear that soft stainless CAN be made sharp with certain techniques, but I and many others find carbon more responsive and fun in the long run. To each his own.

Now please just get along, folks. It's dangerous when people pick fights with knives in their hands!


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## cabarete_cub (Jul 21, 2014)

My apologies to everybody again. Hope you weren't disturbed. And of course I recognize LKH9's skill.
Which I'm planning to match sometime soon. Yeah!


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## LKH9 (Jul 21, 2014)

@nerologic

Believe me, it doesn't take a lot of time to touch up those crap SS knives. When I do need 1 hour+ to sharpen a SS knife, it's because I want to modify the crap factory bevel, that takes heap loads of efforts to grind by hand. When that secondary bevel is done, the primary/microbevel should be quick to happen. 5-10 mins to touch up a not too dull SS knife, about 6-7" in length. Pass a paper cutting test and it's complete. So fun in fact I'm still waiting for friends to offer me cheap knives to sharpen. Weeks ago, I even tried to sharpen a pair of stainless scissors which was ridiculously dull, it was back to push-cutting sharp on paper, 1st attempt on scissors.

I just feel this forum is a bit different, I've been to some other forums before and those people hardly ever mention about blade material when it comes to sharpening skills, some even say "any steel can be turned into razor blade", quite true. This is the first place I ever hear of this so commonly, no offense!

Over here, carbon kitchen knives are almost non-existent except from butchers and those old Chinese food shops. Kiwi brand stainless knives are the most widely available product, everyone seems to have one in the house.


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## nerologic (Jul 21, 2014)

That sounds like a sensible limitation, gotta work with what's available. It's clearly better than having dull stainless knives. I think we can all agree that caring for our tools, regardless of how fancy they are, is a primary concern around here.

Coming from a place where I can get a box of dinged up old carbon blades for $5, it is easy to default to those and suggest the same to others, though that isn't true in other places (like the UK where knives cannot be sold on eBay). It also makes sense that pro restaurant folks favor whatever retains a good edge for a few work days. We've all got our opportunities and limitations that lead to our preferences. There's no harm in making the best of what's.

I'd say the OP can buy carbon if he would like to, or continue refining his technique on stainless, but with something other than waterstones. If you go carbon, newboy, I hear a guy might sell you his Rader for $10,000....


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## LKH9 (Jul 21, 2014)

I just measured the time again, this time, around 10 minutes total minus all the time wasted on unneeded paper slicing frenzy. :knife:Grind on the medium silicon stone until burr is raised, deburr, switch to Finishing Oil Stone, raise another burr, deburr, strop on cardboard to realign the edge. This is the result within 10 minutes, I just lost another patch of hairs on my arm and leg.

[video=dailymotion;x21uuga]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21uuga_shaving-test[/video]

This knife is quite old and totally abused. See the fine microbevel? I think someone here is going to cut his hand again while peeling fruits.


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## LKH9 (Jul 21, 2014)

Re-posted, account prob on Dailymotion. Mod please help edit the above post.

[video=youtube_share;uhtAbPu3gf0]http://youtu.be/uhtAbPu3gf0[/video]


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jul 21, 2014)

LKH9 said:


> Re-posted, account prob on Dailymotion. Mod please help edit the above post.


Sorry for being rude, but instead of capturing videos you'd better fix that broken tip.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 21, 2014)

The Butchers & old Chinese guys in your area are the smart ones.


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## mhpr262 (Jul 21, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Sorry for being rude, but instead of capturing videos you'd better fix that broken tip.



Maybe it is not his knife and the owner said nothing about the tip ... or maybe it is for a child and a knife without a tip is preferred?


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## jaybett (Jul 21, 2014)

When I started sharpening, there was so many things to consider, that it was a bit much at times. Anything that helped with the learning curve was appreciated. Stones with good feed back. Carbon knives have a better feel on the stones, then certain types of stainless. 

It is scary to hold an expensive knife over the stones, knowing that you can screw it up royally. Most people, pick up inexpensive carbon knives to sharpen. 

I was looking for something where I could practice the motions, of sharpening without using a stone. Stropping turned out to be the answer. The pen trick works with stropping. I could see where I was hitting and adjust the angle. I was able to practice, until I felt confident enough to use the stones. 

Jay


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## LKH9 (Jul 21, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Sorry for being rude, but instead of capturing videos you'd better fix that broken tip.



I picked this knife to sharpen just for the sake of this topic. I don't feel like sharpening this because it's abused every single day by cutting on hard table surface without any cutting boards. I don't want to sharpen this again and see the edge being rolled all over from abuse. Just picked the worst knife in my house to show how quick it is to bring back the edge.

The carbon knives I see from butchers and old food shops are just Chinese style cleavers.


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## rami_m (Jul 21, 2014)

I do not mean to offend, but one of the joys of sharpening for me would be considering the use of the knife and the steel and changing geometry to suit.


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## cabarete_cub (Jul 22, 2014)

So, newboy, if your knife doesn't make it through xerox paper, it's a skill. But don't fret. It's a small skill.
I got mine in a month or so.

[Boring paper slicing and gross-ish hand shaving with $2.50 Perfecto knife]
[video=youtube_share;Y6oZ29HPXFs]http://youtu.be/Y6oZ29HPXFs[/video]

Just get yourself something you enjoy handling and you'd be there in no time.


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## WarrenB (Jul 22, 2014)

I started sharpening with stones a few months ago and started by trying to sharpen cheap stainless ones we already had, not a nice experience, because I didn't care too much if I scuffed the face I don't think I spent long enough learning the feel of the stone, steel, angles and trying to get some muscle memory going.
I got my first decent knife quite quickly, a Hiromoto AS, I used it for a week OOTB and thought it was good then decided to see what I could do with it on a stone, I found myself taking more time and care as it was a more expensive knife and the soft cladding scratches so easily, the result of this was that I was really feeling what the stone and steel was doing and constantly stopped to check my progress, I learnt more in that first sharpening session than I did in the several attempts on the cheap stainless knives. 
I am still improving my sharpening but feel comfortable sharpening any knife I would buy as I have gained the ability to work methodically and realise it's not a race, I was just thrashing the cheap knives up and down the stones to be honest and not learning much at all.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jul 22, 2014)

Millions of mouths have been fed over time with carbon Chinese cleavers. How many meals have been butchered with crappy cheap stainless knives.


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## daveb (Jul 22, 2014)

keithsaltydog said:


> How many meals have been butchered with crappy cheap stainless knives.



All of them?


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## Benuser (Jul 22, 2014)

WarrenB said:


> I started sharpening with stones a few months ago and started by trying to sharpen cheap stainless ones we already had, not a nice experience, because I didn't care too much if I scuffed the face I don't think I spent long enough learning the feel of the stone, steel, angles and trying to get some muscle memory going.
> I got my first decent knife quite quickly, a Hiromoto AS, I used it for a week OOTB and thought it was good then decided to see what I could do with it on a stone, I found myself taking more time and care as it was a more expensive knife and the soft cladding scratches so easily, the result of this was that I was really feeling what the stone and steel was doing and constantly stopped to check my progress, I learnt more in that first sharpening session than I did in the several attempts on the cheap stainless knives.
> I am still improving my sharpening but feel comfortable sharpening any knife I would buy as I have gained the ability to work methodically and realise it's not a race, I was just thrashing the cheap knives up and down the stones to be honest and not learning much at all.


Thanks for this great post!


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## LKH9 (Jul 22, 2014)

keithsaltydog said:


> Millions of mouths have been fed over time with carbon Chinese cleavers. How many meals have been butchered with crappy cheap stainless knives.



My elderly friend here got one made by an old Chinese blacksmith ages ago, quite cheap for the order. She told me that she chopped down a small tree with it and it didn't even have a chip in the edge afterwards.


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## Ruso (Jul 22, 2014)

Am I the only one who practiced on all different kind of cheap stainless and did not "die" in the attempt?
I was borrowing all the knives from my friends and relatives and start rubbing against the stones. Slowly, but steady burrs began to appear, then on another side. As I kept practicing on pretty much the same knives I could tell the level of sharpening based on paper test. I could see my level of refinement going up or be stagnant. Then the concept of wire edge appeared after few times of having the "scary sharp" knife to go dull in one session. I spent quite a time reading and practicing the stropping and other techniques to remove the burr/wire edge. Still working on it though  I think, the main idea is to use more or less the same knives and perform same test for sharpness. This will give you an idea of your skill.
But! When I sharpened my Kono HD for the first time, I was surprise how easy and effortless it was!
So yea, if you can sharpen a cheap knife properly you will have no issues in moving to better stuff. But I am afraid the opposite it not quite true.

As Alexander Suvorov said: "Hard in learning, easy in the combat" (rough translation) = Lessons hard to learn are sweet to know.


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## cabarete_cub (Jul 23, 2014)

So, no pain, no gain. Pain doesn't necessarily mean gain though. Can anybody think of any field 
where substandard materials/equipment are intentionally used for learning _at the beginning stage_?


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Jul 23, 2014)

cabarete_cub said:


> Can anybody think of any field where substandard materials/equipment are intentionally used for learning _at the beginning stage_?


Welcome to Russia. In every field here you'd get substandard equipment when learning. 

The thing is, here on KKF most would bash cheap stainless knives and urge you to dump them as soon as possible. While in some countries (including Russia) such knives are the most popular ones, like 99% of market share. It's hard to ignore 99% of market share you know. And those knives actually works pretty good when you know how to sharpen them: forget about wetstones, just take a steel or bottom of ceramic cup and you could make a working sharp (not heir splitting, but sharp enough for home kitchen tasks) in minutes if not seconds. Yep, those knives won't hold edge, so you'd need to steel them again. But that's fast. And it's cheap. And you don't have to thing about shinogi lines, about cleaning or soaking your stones etc. Just a cheap knife that you would throw away in half a year, because it became unusable from frequent steeling. That's how things are here. And my personal experience tells me that very few people are care to change habits and interested in learning how to use and maintain high end knives. 

Personally I don't share the opinion that you shouldn't waste time sharpening cheap stainless. That's just doesn't makes sense to me. Cheap stainless knife is just another a tool and if you want it too be sharp, then you need know how to make it sharp. Yes, there are subtle differences in technique, but that doesn't means one should discard SS and focus on carbon knives. I was almost proud of myself when I could sharpen any cheap knife in my father's cottage house using just the natural stuff like floor tiles, wooden panels, cardboard etc. 

The basics of sharpening are pretty simple and should allow you to sharpen any metal object to a reasonable sharpening level. Another question is if you should spend time doing it or not.


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## LKH9 (Jul 23, 2014)

Now, that's the spirit of a true knife lover and the Sharpening Station. Over here, even a pocket knife is made of stainless steel. Stainless is preferred in kitchen because it's "maintenance free", and dirt cheap. I have to live with stainless knives.

@cabarete_cub, long ago, I gave you a link to a cheap product made for sharpening these knives, with a very detailed article, but you didn't appreciate it, saying that you don't believe in these items, something like that. The method I'm using is pretty much mimics that commercial angle-guide, that's a classic American technique, precise and effective. I recommend that commercial angle-guide for you because it's a no-brainer item, anyone can hold it and use effectively in no time. My own method with using dowel and office binder clips, or gripping the dowel by hand, needs some time to learn and get used to, which is not too easy for a beginner. This is why I recommend that link to you instead of trying to shove my method down your throat.


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## cabarete_cub (Jul 23, 2014)

LKH9 said:


> @cabarete_cub, long ago, I gave you a link to a cheap product made for sharpening these knives, with a very detailed article, but you didn't appreciate it, *saying that you don't believe in these items, something like that*. The method I'm using is pretty much mimics that commercial angle-guide, that's a classic American technique, precise and effective. I recommend that commercial angle-guide for you because it's a no-brainer item, anyone can hold it and use effectively in no time. My own method with using dowel and office binder clips, or gripping the dowel by hand, needs some time to learn and get used to, which is not too easy for a beginner. This is why I recommend that link to you instead of trying to shove my method down your throat.



my actual response was:


> Of course angle is my main problem, but that's exactly what makes the whole process so interesting for me.



And I appreciate you not trying to shove your method down my throat, especially considering I can achieve the same result free-hand.


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## nerologic (Jul 23, 2014)

Okay, crew. You can both sharpen knives. Now quit bickering. You can only truly tell whose is bigge... I mean sharper by comparing them in person. The Internet is surely no place for such disputes. 

This is a transparent attempt at (another) off-topic change of subject but an honest question: LKH9, in the wake of the two Malaysia Airlines tragedies, it seems like people are steering away from that airline. Are there a lot of alternatives available where you're from? Do you feel like it was merely bad luck, or have there been other concerns with the airline building up to now?


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## LKH9 (Jul 23, 2014)

nerologic said:


> Okay, crew. You can both sharpen knives. Now quit bickering. You can only truly tell whose is bigge... I mean sharper by comparing them in person. The Internet is surely no place for such disputes.
> 
> This is a transparent attempt at (another) off-topic change of subject but an honest question: LKH9, in the wake of the two Malaysia Airlines tragedies, it seems like people are steering away from that airline. Are there a lot of alternatives available where you're from? Do you feel like it was merely bad luck, or have there been other concerns with the airline building up to now?



No no, I'm not starting another fight, he asked for sharpening equipment for beginner, so I just remind him of what I shared with him before.

------------
Airasia. 

About that Ukraine tragedy, from the rumor I heard of, which sounds quite logical, Malaysian plane was chosen as the sacrifice because we have no status in the world, as there were some other planes from other countries passing the same route. Not quite remember the reason they have to shoot down a passenger plane. That's what people here said. But I don't care anyway, life is too short to worry about stuff not related to me. :threadjacked:


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## cabarete_cub (Jul 23, 2014)

I would just ask LKH9 to, please, stop ascribing to me things I never said.
Want a competition? Fine, extra incentive for me to get better.
Post some results for me to beat. More use for both of us and more fun for other forum members.

Now with your, nerologic, permission I'd go and start a new thread titled "Whose is sharper?".


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## LKH9 (Jul 23, 2014)

Ruso said:


> Am I the only one who practiced on all different kind of cheap stainless and did not "die" in the attempt?
> I was borrowing all the knives from my friends and relatives and start rubbing against the stones.
> So yea, if you can sharpen a cheap knife properly you will have no issues in moving to better stuff. But I am afraid the opposite it not quite true.
> 
> As Alexander Suvorov said: "Hard in learning, easy in the combat" (rough translation) = Lessons hard to learn are sweet to know.



When I was totally new to sharpening, I tried all kinds of methods I could think of, sandpaper of different grits, metal file, hard roadside bricks, ceramic cup bottom, all to no avail. I didn't know about the burr and deburr stuff, had horrible angles and very horrible stroking methods.

Edit: Looks like I offended someone with some words that I said wrongly, I apologize now.


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## nerologic (Jul 23, 2014)

cabarete_cub said:


> Now with your, nerologic, permission I'd go and start a new thread titled "Whose is sharper?".



Just sayin', the OP cleared off after 3 posts on the first page. Hopefully he wasn't scared away. That certainly wasn't the goal of everyone giving him sharpening advice. That said, there are some useful nuggets that got stirred up as well. I'm 100% tongue-in-cheek about the Internet being no place for disputes. That's probably its main purpose.

Oh, and I hereby grant thee permission, on this twenty-third day of the seventh month of the two thousand fourteenth year Anno Domini, to start thy thread "Whose doth be most sharpe?"


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## mhlee (Jul 24, 2014)

nerologic said:


> Okay, crew. You can both sharpen knives. Now quit bickering. You can only truly tell whose is bigge...



Hey, Benuser. Be sure to tell neurologic how classy he is too.


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## Benuser (Jul 24, 2014)

mhlee said:


> Hey, Benuser. Be sure to tell neurologic how classy he is too.


Welcome to my ignore list, Michael.


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