# New Stones



## Dave Kinogie (Feb 1, 2015)

So I'm sure this thread pops up a lot, but I'm looking to get some new, good quality stones. 

As of now I only have one King Combo 1000/6000 grit stone. I've heard it get a bad rap, but it's served me well for probably about a year and a half, but I'm finally looking to upgrade once my tax return comes in.

I'd say my budget is about $80 to $120 total. I'd like to get 2 or 3 stones. A lower grit, an intermediate and a higher grit. 

I'm open to any suggestions though. I'm a pretty novice sharpener, but I can keep a good angle, raise and remove burr, etc. 

Probably need some type of flattening plate or stone as well, my King is beginning to dish, well it has dished I'd say. It isn't awful or unusable, but it's getting there. I'd like to reshape(terminology?) that stone just to have it around to use and to maintain my new stones. That could be separate from my budget though. 

I'm going to read through this board when I get a chance the rest of this week and really just leading up to my return arriving, which probably won't be for almost a month, but would love to hear any suggestions and info itt. 

Thanks in advance.


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## Benuser (Feb 1, 2015)

Where do you live? It might be important for availability, prices, shipping costs, import duties etc.


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## ThEoRy (Feb 2, 2015)

http://www.japaneseknifesharpenings...ore-Set-of-Sharpening-Stones-p/set1dmcore.htm


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## ThEoRy (Feb 2, 2015)

Doesn't leave much room for a diamond plate but it's a solid foundation to start from.


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## CoqaVin (Feb 2, 2015)

beat me to it theory


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## Dave Kinogie (Feb 2, 2015)

Benuser said:


> Where do you live? It might be important for availability, prices, shipping costs, import duties etc.



New Jersey.


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## Matus (Feb 2, 2015)

Well, if you are on budget, that you can replace pricey flattening stone with piece of sanding paper on flat floor tile. I did that in the past and it worked OK.

But the question to ask is - what it is that makes you to upgrade your King combo stone? If at least one of the sides performs to your liking, that just get one stone to replace the other. Or if both are actually acceptable and you need coarse/fast stone - than just get a good quality coarse stone (Gesshin 400 comes to my mind) and eventually replace the King later when you have the funds.

Lastly - should you be able to stretch your budget by some means, than you can get Gesshin 400, 2000 and 6000 for $200 - and have some of the best stones out there.


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## Dave Kinogie (Feb 3, 2015)

Thanks guys. That's a nice set and only a tad above my budget.

Matus, the King stone is solid, but it's slow and I just don't get the results I really crave even when being slow and precise. I am certainly novice, but I keep a prettyn consistent angle and motion, etc. and although my knives come off the stones wildly better than ootb or when dull or sightly rolled/chipped, its nothing like others' knives I've tried which came off better stones. The feedback has gotten duller as well and was always muted compared to thoughts on other better stones I've read up on, on here and other forums.

Don't get me wrong, as an amateur, I'd still recommend the King to people who are where I was as a noob and I could easily get away with it if I invested in a flattening plate and fixed the dishes and gouges in it, but I think I'm at the point I'd like to step up a level and also try my hand at thinning and repair with a low grit as well.

But you raise a great point, I was honestly thinking this myself... As in just decide which side of the King I really like enough to live with and invest in one really good stone and a finishing plate instead for now.


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## psfred (Feb 3, 2015)

You should be able to get a perfectly good edge off that combo stone, but I suspect it's now dished to the point it will not give you anything but a very convexed edge. Just the nature of waterstones, and that King 1000 dishes very quickly. That is why I don't use mine anymore.

The 6000 however is a much better stone. Still needs to be flat to work properly, but I use mine all the time. 

Get some coarse sandpaper (wet and dry) and flatten that combo stone, should work much better. Not to say you should not get other stones if you want them, but your combo stone should give you a very nice edge.

All waterstones require regular flattening, otherwise you get seriously rounded bevels on both sides, makes the knife wedge and feel dull.

Peter


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## chinacats (Feb 3, 2015)

I believe you can get great edges off a King...

My recommendation is to start with a flattening plate save yourself the hassle and buy a nice diamond plate, save a bit more cash and buy the JKI set.

Cheers


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## daveb (Feb 3, 2015)

I've seen it alluded to here but have not seen it expressed crystal clear: Suggest you spend your next coin on a flattening stone. A flat king can be fine. A diished wonderstone sux. Atoma, DMT XXC, JKI's flattening stone, will get you to the next base.:2cents:


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## Dave Kinogie (Feb 3, 2015)

Psfred and everyone, yeah, it's honestly dished pretty bad now, especially the 1k side. It wasn't too bad til the last couple sessions when I sharpened 5+ knives each session, with a little soaking break in between (not sure that, that even made that big a difference, I usually soak the 1k side about half an hour and splash it a lot while sharpening while trying to keep a slurry, maybe that's not even correct?), and the last two sessions while it has a reasonably bad u is when I dug into it and gouged it.

I mean I really do like the stone, like I was saying, in my very noob opinion I feel it gets a bad rap, but if a set like the one suggested is a sizable upgrade, I'd love to invest in that and by June cop a flattening plate/stone to maintain the new ones and fix the King. I don't use my stones so much where I'd kill the new ones before copping a flattener by June anyway. 

Thoughts?


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## chinacats (Feb 3, 2015)

Dave Kinogie said:


> Psfred and everyone, yeah, it's honestly dished pretty bad now, especially the 1k side. It wasn't too bad til the last couple sessions when I sharpened 5+ knives each session, with a little soaking break in between (not sure that, that even made that big a difference, I usually soak the 1k side about half an hour and splash it a lot while sharpening while trying to keep a slurry, maybe that's not even correct?), and the last two sessions while it has a reasonably bad u is when I dug into it and gouged it.
> 
> I mean I really do like the stone, like I was saying, in my very noob opinion I feel it gets a bad rap, but if a set like the one suggested is a sizable upgrade, I'd love to invest in that and by June cop a flattening plate/stone to maintain the new ones and fix the King. I don't use my stones so much where I'd kill the new ones before copping a flattener by June anyway.
> 
> Thoughts?



I flatten *every* time I sharpen. And flatten a new stone (and shape the edges the way you like) before using it.

Nobody is arguing against new stones--I love to see people upgrade--but do this in the correct order and you will find things work a bit better.


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## Geo87 (Feb 4, 2015)

Okay I know it's already been said but I'm going to say it one more time because it's that important! 
Flatten your stones!  
Frequently! 
Dished stones create horrible rounded edges with no bite! (Please don't ask how I know this.)
All stones need flattening. Like Jim said... Flatten your stones a little bit every time you sharpen. This stops them from glazing over which would also create bad results. don't ask me how I know that either.


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## Matus (Feb 4, 2015)

I agree with all the advice on flattening. On top of that you may try to use the corners of your 1k stone (do not bother on 6k - those dish slowly anyhow). I did that last time with my Gesshin 400. It was a long session where I used the 400 a lot - and I managed to keep it nearly flat (with some very light higher order waviness that I will flat away next time). It surely saved me some of the stone.


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## Ruso (Feb 4, 2015)

If your king stone is very dished, you can use a cinder block or asphalt to remove high spots fast and then move to diamond plate to finish the process.


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## psfred (Feb 4, 2015)

There isn't anything really wrong with a King 1k other than they dish quickly. They cut well and have nice feedback, but I could never get plane blades properly sharp on them, they dish so fast the edge was not straight, or was rounded too much. Too much pressure didn't help, either.

I greatly prefer my Bester 1200, but you can get a knife or three very nicely sharp on that King IF you flatten it all the time.

Peter


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