# Help me choose a new knife - settled on a Denka, now I'm in doubt!



## Knivperson (Dec 22, 2020)

LOCATION
I'm in Denmark, Scandinavia



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in? *A gyuto.*

Are you right or left handed? *Right*

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? *Wa-handle*

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? *240mm*

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) *No.*

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? *750 USD (before taxes etc.)*



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? *Only at home*

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) *Cutting vegetables - mainly onions, carrots, celery, peppers, potatoes, spring onions, kale etc. - also slicing meat.*

What knife, if any, are you replacing? *Not really replacing, but supplementing my Konosuke HD2 210 gyuto.*

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) *Pinch grip for vegetables, finger point for meat using a slicing motion.*

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) *1. push-cut, 2. chop*

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

*I thought it would be nice to try a knife not quite as light as my Konosuke HD2 210mm gyuto (it's 123 grams). I'm not especially into damascus (although I just today saw some cool "feathered" pattern!). I'd like it to cut well out of the box, although I get my knives hand sharpened 2 times a year by a professional. (update: Ill learn to sharpen as soon as possible) 

The most important thing is performance in cutting e.g. onions, using a push-cut/chopping and claw technique. I'd like good edge retention. A bit better food release than the HD2 would be nice as well. Wouldnt appreciate to thick/wedging a knife I think, but still something a bit heavier for that "fall through the food"-feel. A good amount of belly is preferable for chopping/push-cutting.*



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) *Wooden, both end grain and not (walnut and teak for the end grain).*

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) *No (update: Ill learn asap) *

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) *Yes*



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

*Actually I thought about getting a Fujiwara Denka 210 mm gyuto through EpicEdge, but maybe theres something better for me out there, that I don't know of, but you guys do!

Thanks!!!*


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Dec 22, 2020)

I don't know how else to put this as it is an unfortunate truth about knives, but after 3 or so months of home use, _a knife will only be as sharp as the edge you can put on it. _

Especially with carbon steel, as acids will degrade the edge (tomatoes, onions, etc.)

$750 is a very nice budget, it would be a shame to acquire a beautiful piece and then be sawing through tomatoes halfway into the year.



If you want a denka my choice would be to buy direct so you can resell it at a minimal loss. Just make sure the blade is straight. The 4 or so I've seen in the past month have been relatively consistent, and there's not much to go wrong with wa handle F&F (as compared to TF yo handles).


----------



## Knivperson (Dec 22, 2020)

Of course, and if the performance falls and I can't correct it myself, I will get i sharpened.

But any knife suggestions you can think of concerning chopping performance?


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Dec 22, 2020)

"KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? *Only at home*

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) *Cutting vegetables - mainly onions, carrots, celery, peppers, potatoes, spring onions, kale etc. - occasionally slicing meat.*

What knife, if any, are you replacing? *Not really replacing, but supplementing my Konosuke HD2 210 gyuto."*



You want to supplement a gyuto with a knife that does primarily vegetables - have you considered a nakiri? 


Not sure how much of a supplement you'd be getting by adding another 210/240 gyuto.

I like the steel on my denka, but I sharpen mine at least once a month. If a denka is what you want, get it! A good denka is great.

If you're sharpening twice a year, maybe look at steels with longer edge retention like ZDP 189, Hap40, SG2 etc.

How about a Sukenari gyuto in ZDP189?

Watanabe makes a good workhorse as well.


----------



## Knivperson (Dec 22, 2020)

That's interesting. Seems there is both a damascus and a non-damascus type.

I have a moritaka blue #2 nakiri, but the lack of a tip is not the best for my cutting technique. I like the gyuto best, I don't know why. The HD2 gyuto is my go-to veggie cutter atm.


----------



## Jovidah (Dec 22, 2020)

I think there's room for a non-laser gyuto next to the Kono without becoming overly redundant... no need to go buying half-knives just yet. 
If you want less overlap you could consider getting a 240, but it's hard to figure out if that's your cup of tea without trying - or whether you have the board space for it.
I'm not sure aobut the whole 'sharpening twice a year' thing though. If anything I'd recommend getting sharpening stones and learning how to sharpen instead. Otherwise it feels kinda wasteful to get a top-end knife.
If you insist on sticking to the current setup I'd be inclined to second nakiri's suggestion of looking at the higher end PM steels.


----------



## Leon.B (Dec 22, 2020)

If you're sharpening your knives twice a year I probably subscribe on getting something with a pretty solid edge retention. Sukenari, Nigara, Yoshida Hamono, just to name a few, produce excellent ZDP and SG2 blades. I wouldn't call their product beefy but they have certainly more weight than a Kono. I agree on trying a 240. I use 210's and 240's both and I have no problem at all switching. I disagree with Jovidah on one thing tho.. It's never wasteful acquiering high-end knives..  Said that learning to sharpen can be quite fun!
If you decide to buy a PM and then, after a while, you want to learn sharpening I advice to buy a different stone or a knife that is easier to sharpen than a ZDP.. I can suggest Munetoshi for example. Cheap and truly great.
I've close to none experience with Denkas but if you want to go down that rabbit hole plenty people can advice you in here.


----------



## Knivperson (Dec 23, 2020)

Okay, thank you guys. It seems that I really have to learn to sharpen. I think youre rigth. So I will. 

I agree on the 240mm as well.

About the nakiri, i dont like it for onions for instance because it's lacking a point tip. A bunka could be an option, but I think my small collection can take one more gyuto with some more heft than my kono. 

So, with this new information, what would be a good choice, with the above specifications in consideration?


----------



## juice (Dec 23, 2020)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> You want to supplement a gyuto with a knife that does primarily vegetables - have you considered a nakiri?


Honestly, I read this in the OP and thought you'd be ALL OVER IT and I was pretty significantly disapointed with your first reply, I thought you'd missed the free hit


----------



## Knivperson (Dec 23, 2020)

So at this price point and with me learning to sharpen, and setting on 240mm (just had to cut some red cabbage and the hd2 210mm really struggled), and a bit more heft, what should I consider? 

Just learned about dalman and 9nine. Anything else? The dalman warikomi looks really sexy!


----------



## toddnmd (Dec 23, 2020)

Watanabe or Toyama stainless clad Blue #2 would complement an HD2 nicely. Use the leftover $ for a couple stones. 
I just can’t justify TF’s 210 to 240 price jump, but I love my 210 Denka. Even more with its new handle. 
Or Kurosaki Chiku from KNS if you really want AS.


----------



## WifeNotUnderstand (Dec 23, 2020)

I completely agree with @toddnmd a Toyama 240 would complement the Kono

I have a 210 TF Denka and a 240 Toyama, in your setup I would get Toyama before the Denka


----------



## Knivperson (Dec 23, 2020)

Like this one, fx?

Toyama Noborikoi Stainless Clad Blue Gyuto 240mm - Japanese Natural Stones


----------



## JoBone (Dec 23, 2020)

I think Sukenari, Denka and Toyama are all good suggestions for killer performance. Each one has its strength. 

Personally, I would go for a white steel TF, Hinoura, Y Tanaka or Mazaki and a good set of stones.


----------



## WifeNotUnderstand (Dec 23, 2020)

Knivperson said:


> Like this one, fx?
> 
> Toyama Noborikoi Stainless Clad Blue Gyuto 240mm - Japanese Natural Stones



That's the one

a Wat is basically the same knife





__





Professional kitchen knives list | watanabe blade


There are so many kinds of kitchen knives. Professional knives.



www.kitchen-knife.jp


----------



## MrHiggins (Dec 23, 2020)

I'll add my name to the list of folks recommending a 240 Toyama. I have iron-clad ones in both 240 and 270 and they're some of my absolute favorites (I haven't tried the stainless-clad ones that he makes now, but I'm sure they're great). 

Toyama's blue 2 steel keeps sharp for quite a while, but obviously will eventually dull, so get a few sharpening stones while you're at it! (And watch the sharpening video series from Japanese Knife Imports to get the basics, especially the Sharpie trick).

Have fun and let us know how it goes.


----------



## Knivperson (Dec 23, 2020)

And jns is in denmark, which is perfect for me


----------



## damiano (Dec 23, 2020)

Knivperson said:


> And jns is in denmark, which is perfect for me


Exactly, I was actually going to suggest contacting JNS. He has other great knives besides Toyama as well, like the cheaper but awesome Munetoshi. The Mune would be an excellent starting knife, add some JNS stones and you’ll be set for the next few months.


----------



## Knivperson (Dec 23, 2020)

So I was just reading on the forum about Watanabe vs toyoma, and fell upon Kono Kaiju. The specs on the Kaiju 240 and the F&F and research is really appealing.

Anyone have comments on how a Toyoma 240mm stainless clad blue 2 is compared to Konosuke Kaiju 240?

The measurements of the Konosuke is a bit bigger in every way - it does also weight a bit more, which is appealing to me, since I need something to compliment my 210mm hd2 laser (mine is 123 grams!).


----------



## daveb (Dec 23, 2020)

Cleancut in Sweden is also a very good retailer - and has both a .se and .eu website. 

Knives and Stones, a vendor here (au), ships worldwide and has a lot of nice offerings. Including Yoshikane that don't need any work out of the box.


----------



## Leo Barr (Dec 23, 2020)

M


Knivperson said:


> LOCATION
> I'm in Denmark, Scandinavia
> 
> 
> ...


Much as I like Denkas I would be tempted to look at Jikko knives or Takeda its price range that has many possibilities Jikko knives have a great finish whereas the Denkas are more rustic out of the box if you are good at sharpening & polishing that need not be a problem but the Jikkos I have come across have a great finish out of the box. I am sure a lot of people will have other great suggestions there are also some great bladesmiths in Europe its probable worth spending the holidays researching. I think for the price you are looking to spend it will be worth a couple more weeks of research.


----------



## Knivperson (Dec 23, 2020)

MrHiggins said:


> I'll add my name to the list of folks recommending a 240 Toyama. I have iron-clad ones in both 240 and 270 and they're some of my absolute favorites (I haven't tried the stainless-clad ones that he makes now, but I'm sure they're great).
> 
> Toyama's blue 2 steel keeps sharp for quite a while, but obviously will eventually dull, so get a few sharpening stones while you're at it! (And watch the sharpening video series from Japanese Knife Imports to get the basics, especially the Sharpie trick).
> 
> Have fun and let us know how it goes.



Any suggestions on what stones to get? Actually I wrote JNS to hear his opinion. I have the following knives, apart from the HD2


Moritaka Aogami #2 Nakiri 150mm
Moritaka Aogami #2 Honesuki 150mm (ishime finish)
Takamura Migaki R2 Petty 150mm


----------



## Nemo (Dec 23, 2020)

Or consider @ashy2classy 's Akebono on BST. It's thinner than the Toyama, but not as thin as a laser.


----------

