# Can never seem to get my knives sharp enough (Victorinox)



## Martyk (Jul 15, 2012)

I have 2 sharpening tools.

One is this:







Which is damaging my knives and taking out the metal of them.

Im not sure how hard i should be pressing down?

But i always use quite a lot of force.

Then this:






Which i dont think is diamond.

I'm not quite sure what i should be using in order to keep my knives sharp which doesnt damage them?

Can anyone recommend what i should use?

I mainly collect victorinox... all these sharpeners are doing is damaging the knives.

Do i need a steel which has diamonds in or an electric sharpener?

Also how hard do i press when i sharpen and what angle do i sharpen at?

Thanks guys.

Mart.


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## tk59 (Jul 15, 2012)

The easy answer is to get yourself a 500 grit stone to reset those bevels and then a 1-3k stone to finish your edges. Probably the more realistic and convenient solution is to use a Chef's Choice. Get one with a fine wheel and a stropping wheel. If your edges are totally destroyed, start with the coarse for just a pass or two. Then go to the fine and stropping. Never again use your coarse wheel. You can use your steel to touch up. When that doesn't work well, go to the strop. If that does not work, go to the fine while then back to the strop. Oh, and do not strike your steel rod with your knife and vice versa.


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## Martyk (Jul 15, 2012)

tk59 said:


> The easy answer is to get yourself a 500 grit stone to reset those bevels and then a 1-3k stone to finish your edges. Probably the more realistic and convenient solution is to use a Chef's Choice. Get one with a fine wheel and a stropping wheel. If your edges are totally destroyed, start with the coarse for just a pass or two. Then go to the fine and stropping. Never again use your coarse wheel. You can use your steel to touch up. When that doesn't work well, go to the strop. If that does not work, go to the fine while then back to the strop. Oh, and do not strike your steel rod with your knife and vice versa.



Wow! ok thank u.

Will look into that.

TBH i would much rather go for the Chef's Choice after seeing them on ebay.
Would u pls be able to recommend a particular model number?

I was looking at these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BUTCHERS..._Equipment&hash=item4167750af5#ht_1511wt_1396

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BUTCHERS..._Equipment&hash=item3f18e3054e#ht_1408wt_1396

they do mention stropping but not fine im wondering if these would do fine anyway?

Do u know if i would be able to get one from the states to work on 240 volts?

Thank u


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## Noodle Soup (Jul 15, 2012)

I second the suggestion of the ChefsChoice. Great machines for people that lack hand sharpening skills and don't have the time or desire to learn them.


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## Martyk (Jul 15, 2012)

Hi there

Yes this seems best suited to me i think.
Is there a particular model i should go for?

Thanks

Btw i cant seem to find the 500 grit stones anywhere i can find 400 whetstones but struggling to find the 500's.

Are u able to guide me?

Thank you.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jul 15, 2012)

Martyk said:


> ...
> Btw i cant seem to find the 500 grit stones anywhere i can find 400 whetstones but struggling to find the 500's.
> 
> Are u able to guide me?
> ...



You can consider 400 and 500 grit the same for all practical purposes.

Rick


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## GLE1952 (Jul 15, 2012)

My Chef's Choice was so bad it actually led me to finding forums like this to find a better way!

I would search this and other forums for insight into how others are sharpening.

Your victorinox would be great knives to learn on. When you see how sharp you can get them you will probably be moving on to a greater "expense" of knives:spiteful:

Glen


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## Eamon Burke (Jul 15, 2012)

Holy moly, I never looked up how much a Chef's Choice is. I would not drop that much cash on a sharpening machine. Sharpening isn't that hard.

For your Victorinox knives, assuming you just want to sharpen them and do not want to get better knives, here's the low budget option:
1. get yourself one of these. Doesn't matter which brand, just something coarse so you can grind a new edge in.
2. Get a honing rod, like the 1200 grit Idahone Rod.
3. Buy one more sharpening stone. Whichever one you feel like. It truly does not matter which, just make sure it's 1,000-2,000 grit. Some common suggestions are the King 1000, Bester 1200(my pick), and Naniwa Aotoshi. You are out less than 100 bucks, and you can throw those other things(the pull-through and the steel rod) away. You are set for life, unless you decide to drop some bigger dollars on knives.

You can sharpen your knives, I assure you. It's not like performing Lasik surgery.


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## James (Jul 15, 2012)

+1 to everything Eamon said. Freehand sharpening is a very rewarding activity and frankly, with enough practice, you can get your knives much sharper by hand than by using the chef's choice.


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## pitonboy (Jul 15, 2012)

[/QUOTE]You can sharpen your knives, I assure you. It's not like performing Lasik surgery.[/QUOTE]

Even Lasik surgery ain't that hard


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## UCChemE05 (Jul 15, 2012)

If you don't want to learn the hand method, use a check out the Minosharp. There's a couple different models which are much cheaper and some say are superior to the Chef's Choice.


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## skewed (Jul 15, 2012)

BurkeCutlery said:


> Holy moly, I never looked up how much a Chef's Choice is. I would not drop that much cash on a sharpening machine. Sharpening isn't that hard.
> You can sharpen your knives, I assure you. It's not like performing Lasik surgery.



Holy moly! I would not have guessed half that price for the Chef's Choice.

Get a couple of stones and I am sure you will learn how to 'free hand' sharpen. It is really rewarding being able to put a nice edge on your knifes. You will love it!

Cheers,
rj


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## Keith Neal (Jul 15, 2012)

BurkeCutlery said:


> Holy moly, I never looked up how much a Chef's Choice is. I would not drop that much cash on a sharpening machine. Sharpening isn't that hard.
> 
> For your Victorinox knives, assuming you just want to sharpen them and do not want to get better knives, here's the low budget option:
> 1. get yourself one of these. Doesn't matter which brand, just something coarse so you can grind a new edge in.
> ...



Even I have learned to do it in the last few months. It isn't that difficult, and the rewards are nice. My knives are really sharp, thanks to the folks here and in particular to Jon Broida and his videos.

Try it. You'll be amazed.


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## Crothcipt (Jul 15, 2012)

First of all Welcome!!!! 

You could even get quite a few sharpening aids that are well thought of here for cheaper than that. But I would recommend learning hand sharpening.


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## JBroida (Jul 15, 2012)

for what its worth, here is a link to the sharpening playlist i put together:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEBF55079F53216AB&feature=view_all


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## Martyk (Jul 15, 2012)

Some incredibly helpful suggestions there.

Well ive gone from wanting the chefs choice now to wanting the stone and possibly even the minosharp.

Thanks for all your tips and recomendations!


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## Martyk (Jul 15, 2012)

Hey!

Thats great guys u have been most helpful.

Those youtube videos are fantastic.

Got wednesday off work so hope to start looking properly at those videos then!

Great work there!

:thumbsup:


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## ThEoRy (Jul 15, 2012)

Yeah definitely just go with hand sharpening on waterstones. After the learning curve you will be much better off and your knives will last you much longer. Plus you will have acquired a new skill to boot.

Just get a 400-500 like the beston 500 or Gesshin 400 and a 1000-1200 grit stone like the bester 1200 or king 1200 a ceramic rod like the black one from mac and maybe a strop. If you start using japanese knives I would suggest a 5-6k stone as well.

Keep us posted on what you are deciding upon.


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## Martyk (Aug 1, 2012)

How long should it take me to actually reset (recreate) the bevel?


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## chinacats (Aug 1, 2012)

What stone did you wind up getting? It shouldn't take too long, but putting a new bevel on will take a bit longer than normal sharpening. I wouldn't rush, just try to hold a consistent angle.


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## obtuse (Aug 1, 2012)

You might want to watch Murray Carter's Videos and Get Dave's DVD.


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## JBroida (Aug 1, 2012)

Martyk said:


> How long should it take me to actually reset (recreate) the bevel?



depends on the knife, the stone, your angle consistency, and the condition of the edge... could be 2 minutes or could be 2 hours (though i doubt it)... maybe we can help you out and figure out whats going on. Have you used the sharpie (marker) trick?


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## bluntcut (Aug 2, 2012)

I had a few embrassing sharpen-until-dull Forschner/Victorinox chef & scimeter knives. Failed attempts included AlO, SiC, waterstone, diamond, granite/rock - edge seem getting more dull after 320+ grit - although I see clean edge at 125x- 400x usb microscope . Took a few times but finally found that after finished 800 grit, went back take 2 edge trailing strokes (per side) on a 180grit, tore up the edge, now it bites. Paper wheel is a better way to get Victorinox & other soft steel knives super sharp - I only use the slotted/buffing wheel.


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## Martyk (Aug 3, 2012)

Hi there thanks for your replies people.

Well i have been using the minosharp and so far havnt been too impressed with it andi m not sure if thats because its aimed at working better with japanese knives?
It just isnt giving me that VERY sharp edge.

In fact i actually resulted in using this:






It seemed to make it VERY sharp but a lot of you are against those pull throughs arent you?

So im not sure ifi m doing something wrong with my minosharp.

I had a lot of minor nicks in the fine tip of the blade so i ground that down with the coarse wheel and no matter how much going from fine to medium medium to fine after that i just wasnt getting a good edge.
I also noticed that with the sharpener it had quite a gritty sound at times and then sometimes not.. was wondering what sound i should get from the sharpener to know the knife is properly sharp?

What is the paper wheel is that a wheel for the minosharp or is it something i use for a bench grinder?

Pls people tlel me what you would use for your victorinox knives to make them razor sharp?

so far that victirnox brand hand sharpener has been the best but i know a lot of you are against the pull through.

I might start using the stones like a lot of you have recommended me. Ohterwise what about a diamond steel that most butchers use?

I do have a victorinox knife block set with a steel rod but i dont think that actually sharpens does it?

I just need peoples recommendations who actually own victorinox knives and who have experience of many different sharpeners and could tell me what they found to be the best..

thanks people.


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## Martyk (Aug 3, 2012)

JBroida said:


> Have you used the sharpie (marker) trick?



no??? whts that??


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## chinacats (Aug 3, 2012)

When using waterstones, the edge or bevel is marked so you can see what material you are removing from the blade, as well as helping to make sure you are 'scratching' where you think you are. Just so you know, there are stones available that cost less (than the Minosharp) and will do a better job, just require a learning curve. There are some excellent videos from Jon at JKI that will help make learning much easier. I think you will be able to make any knife very sharp once you learn the technique. It is a skill that will allow you to always have an edge as sharp as you like.

Good luck


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## jayhay (Aug 3, 2012)

Martyk said:


> Hi there thanks for your replies people.
> 
> Well i have been using the minosharp and so far havnt been too impressed with it andi m not sure if thats because its aimed at working better with japanese knives?
> It just isnt giving me that VERY sharp edge.
> ...



Honestly man, don't worry about what we think. If the pull thru makes the knife "VERY sharp", your good to go. Most knife nuts are against pull thrus because we are purists, and spend a lot of time and money trying-to-do-it-better. But in the end, its all about what works for you and makes you happy. If you are satisfied with the pull thru edge, awesome! Most here are seldom satisfied and are always looking for that product or technique that gives them the edge (no pun intended). For me, it's all about price/performance. And it looks like you've found your sweet spot.

That said, I have a Forschner scmitar and a boning knife. I usually stop at around 1000 grit and strop on balsa with 1 micron boron carbide. I'm happy with the results.


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## Eamon Burke (Aug 3, 2012)

The pull through will do something, but your knife will need thinning eventually no matter what. A pull through is more akin to a honing rod than a sharpening stone in that it will not provide a permanent solution.

The marker trick is really all you need--just color in the edge with a magic marker, and rub it on the stone a few swipes and then stop to check and see if you are hitting the edge and shoulder. Adjust accordingly. Nothing to it.


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## Crothcipt (Aug 4, 2012)

The pull through will also work well for about 5times then you will start to notice something looking like this.






Which is a over grind at the heal. And also what Eamon from Burkecutlery said about thinning you will see a line starting and scratching were it needs to be thinned.


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 4, 2012)

I have used & sharpened alot of other's Forchners.A 1000 med grit stone works well gives a functional edge.

Yes learn to freehand it's not really that hard,just get good tutoral & some practice.Use a stone not a steel to sharpen


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## Tristan (Aug 5, 2012)

I started on steels. Then got a pull through and was so pleased with the results that I thought it was the be all end all in sharpness. Then I found globals. Then I sought out ceramic rods. Followed shortly after with a department store bought Kai stone after I stumbled onto this great community on another site. Those tools were all binned and gave way to a chosera 400/1000/5000, and now I've added a Red Aoto and an Ohira Renge Suita. 

At every point, I thought I was improving what I had. Getting sharper. And was satisfied with the improvement in results. My journey took 8 years, and intensified in the recent 1.5 years. Sometimes we try to swing non nuts a bit too fast perhaps - people take time to get to where many on this forum already are. 

I wish someone showed me how to use a King combo stone when I was going to buy my first diamond steel, but I'm glad I got here in the end.

P.S.: My victorinox never gets as sharp as my carbon steels and when I try it doesn't last anywhere near as long. That is the next thng you'll figure out if you arent overwhelmed and eventually upgrade your knife choices.


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