# The Knives of Yesteryear



## banzai_burrito (Aug 26, 2020)

So, I always get the feeling that no matter what hobby I get into, I'm always one step too late and a dollar short. Because of this, I find myself constantly chasing the long discontinued or obscure items

I'd love to hear what knives were the KKF flavors of the month / the knives that, at the time, was *the* knife to buy. The ones where excitement and buzz followed them cause it was either the new best thing or something unique but now have fallen out of the spotlight or just cannot be found easily anymore

Examples that I can think of are Delbert Ealy, Aritsugu, Hiromoto, the "gyutohiki", Masamoto KS (yeah yeah I know)

Really interested in hearing y'all's thoughts especially those that have been around since the ITK days


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## wind88 (Aug 26, 2020)

Suisin inox and Tadafunsa during the laser craze days.


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## tchan001 (Aug 26, 2020)

Singatirin honyaki. Cheapest mizu-honyaki ever as far as I know. Was under USD350 back then. Probably was on sale back then?

Feast your eyes on my Singatirin 240mm Wa Gyuto BNIB. Direct from JNS circa 2014. Not for sale or trade.


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## soigne_west (Aug 26, 2020)

Anything KS profile...


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## McMan (Aug 26, 2020)

Takeda with "extra belly", then the laser craze, then the flat spot craze (thanks, KS).
Watanabe was selling the 7-piece set for $300 (or whatever crazy low price it was).
People still liked good old Sabatiers and talked about them.


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## Kristoffer (Aug 26, 2020)

McMan said:


> People still liked good old Sabatiers and talked about them.



They don’t anymore? I’m shocked and bewildered. @Carl Kotte is this really true?


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## Alder26 (Aug 26, 2020)

Certainly they are still talked about but so much less so, Konosuke HD2's, Kurosaki's (although that has a lot to do with knives taking a dip), Gingas. Not that long ago lasers were everything


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## banzai_burrito (Aug 26, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> Singatirin honyaki. Cheapest mizu-honyaki ever as far as I know. Was under USD350 back then. Probably was on sale back then?
> 
> Feast your eyes on my Singatirin 240mm Wa Gyuto BNIB. Direct from JNS circa 2014. Not for sale or trade.
> 
> ...



Oh man. Y u do dis. That is a stunner for sure! <3


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## Twigg (Aug 26, 2020)

Can we count Mazaki? He was the in-guy back in the first part of 2020. There were long threads about him, even touching on his fashion sense. I know the thread title is asking about "Yesteryear", but 2020 is dragging on like hemorrhoids across 80 grit sandpaper.


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## Robert Lavacca (Aug 26, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Can we count Mazaki? He was the in-guy back in the first part of 2020. There were long threads about him, even touching on his fashion sense. I know the thread title is asking about "Yesteryear", but 2020 is dragging on like hemorrhoids across 80 grit sandpaper.


WHERES LABOR AT


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## Blerghle (Aug 26, 2020)

I definitely remember Aritsugu A series being the go to rec for edge retention. Don't think I've enjoyed any gyuto less.


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## daveb (Aug 26, 2020)

When I started to play, the Carbonext was THE knife for those entering the kitchen knife world. Fortunately I missed that one.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 26, 2020)

Before that was the TKC... or rather, first the Kikuichi TKC then the Ichimonji TKC. And yeah I still have bad memories of the Aritsugu A craze. At least I learned the value of paying for well-crafted geometry, and the stupidity of buying knives that need thinning OOTB


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## MowgFace (Aug 26, 2020)

Many already listed above. A few more:

Anything Blue Super was the best thing on the market. 
Wa handled Hiromotos (Stainless clad AS) were peoples unicorns
All the "Super Steels" M390, S35VN, etc.
Stabilized Burl all the things. 
Edge Pro/Wicked Edge
Stropping with all kinds of different micron diamonds
90/10 sharpening
Videos of people blasting through onions with no consistency nor regard for accordion cuts.

I know not all are actual knives, but fads none-the-less.


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## soigne_west (Aug 26, 2020)

There was a forgecraft fade for a while which I seem to be still stuck in.


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## VicVox72 (Aug 26, 2020)

I am too late to the kitchenknifeforum party to know where it came from, but I have seen a lot of mazaki-mehzaki memes here... 
I am a little confused, given that it's often uttered in the same breath as comparing to, say, Toyama or TF. Which confuses me, as the former are 2x more expensive, so it seems like an unfair comparison?

Another meme (not knife) of yesteryear, that I'd love to figure out what it means is the Toyama Watanabe Toyanabe Watayama "conspiracy theory". Why do people suggest that one is making the knives of the other?


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## daveb (Aug 26, 2020)

I can never remember which one is making knives for the other. Makes my brain hurt. But make mine a Wat.


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## parbaked (Aug 26, 2020)

VicVox72 said:


> Why do people suggest that one is making the knives of the other?


I thought I heard that someone read online that a friend who visited Japan told them that Toyama is too old to still be making any knives and they are all the Watanabe family's work...


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## Robert Lavacca (Aug 26, 2020)

VicVox72 said:


> I am too late to the kitchenknifeforum party to know where it came from, but I have seen a lot of mazaki-mehzaki memes here...
> I am a little confused, given that it's often uttered in the same breath as comparing to, say, Toyama or TF. Which confuses me, as the former are 2x more expensive, so it seems like an unfair comparison?
> 
> Another meme (not knife) of yesteryear, that I'd love to figure out what it means is the Toyama Watanabe Toyanabe Watayama "conspiracy theory". Why do people suggest that one is making the knives of the other?


I would just do a quick forum search man. Anytime I had a question when I first joined, the search bar had 98% of my questions answered.


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## ian (Aug 26, 2020)

VicVox72 said:


> a lot of mazaki-mehzaki memes here



Hey, I thought I was the only one to write that! Who's been plagiarizing?? Let me at em.

I dunno, Mazaki's fine, I've just never been in love with any that I've tried. There are other things in the same price range that I like better, e.g. Yoshikane, Wakui.  

The Toyamanabe stuff started here. Have fun reading.


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## banzai_burrito (Aug 26, 2020)

Blerghle said:


> I definitely remember Aritsugu A series being the go to rec for edge retention. Don't think I've enjoyed any gyuto less.





spaceconvoy said:


> Before that was the TKC... or rather, first the Kikuichi TKC then the Ichimonji TKC. And yeah I still have bad memories of the Aritsugu A craze. At least I learned the value of paying for well-crafted geometry, and the stupidity of buying knives that need thinning OOTB



Oh dear....I just bought one too...


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## Moooza (Aug 26, 2020)

Heiji KU Damascus semi stainless.


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## M1k3 (Aug 26, 2020)

Toyama makes some knives for Watanabe.

Mazaki is rumored to be a fashionista-bot turned solo knifemaker-bot. Rumored to be the OEM for ALL non-factory made Japanese knives.


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## Runner_up (Aug 26, 2020)

Hiromoto AS gyuto


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## wind88 (Aug 26, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Toyama makes some knives for Watanabe.
> 
> Mazaki is rumored to be a fashionista-bot turned solo knifemaker-bot. Rumored to be the OEM for ALL non-factory made Japanese knives.



Yes, Toyama makes some knives for Watanabe. In fact, you can find a knife with Toyama kanji on Watanabe’s website. His old sites used to have pictures of Toyama’s workshop and the man himself IIRC.


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## Midsummer (Aug 26, 2020)

Tilman Leder had some attractive knives...Seemed to have some appeal. I haven't heard anything about them in a long while.


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 26, 2020)

Konosuke (Ashi) Honyaki sold by Mark Richmond. Tesshu (Shiraki) Honyaki made for Aframes


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 26, 2020)

remember when Richmond knives were the rage? yeah, me neither


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## Chicagohawkie (Aug 26, 2020)

How about mailing in an international money order for a wide bevel Takeda?


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## tchan001 (Aug 26, 2020)

I've heard that in the colonial years of Hong Kong, Henckels were bestsellers when the different Triad gangs went to war fighting each other. Guns being illegal in Hong Kong.


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 26, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> remember when Richmond knives were the rage? yeah, me neither


My first proper Jknife was a Richmond badged Kurosaki AS laser. Decent knife for the price. It was tipped so got returned.


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## daveb (Aug 26, 2020)

Midsummer said:


> Tilman Leder had some attractive knives...Seemed to have some appeal. I haven't heard anything about them in a long while.



I've got a couple. Like. Might be in my "If you could only keep 12 knives" list.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 26, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> My first proper Jknife was a Richmond badged Kurosaki AS laser. Decent knife for the price. It was tipped so got returned.


To be honest, I bought one too, swayed by the price. Quickly dumped on BST. Was this when he jumped the shark? My memory is hazy... IIRC there was some grumbling among vendors before this, but those R I C H M O N Ds lead to a more widespread realization. That's my memory at least. 

And not knives, but remember when people passionately debated the difference between Arashiyama and Takenoko  Sigma Power was hot (not sure why they aren't anymore) and most people crapped all over Shaptons. For good reason, Suehiro Rika is one trend that's lasted.


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## parbaked (Aug 26, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> I've heard that in the colonial years of Hong Kong, Henckels were bestsellers when the different Triad gangs went to war fighting each other. Guns being illegal in Hong Kong.


No...choppers have always been the triads preferred tool...


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## Ruso (Aug 26, 2020)

Tanaka Ironwood used to get lot of attention


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## tchan001 (Aug 27, 2020)

Ruso said:


> Tanaka Ironwood used to get lot of attention


Still does if priced right.


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## James (Aug 27, 2020)

Sakai yusuke


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## Nagakin (Aug 27, 2020)

This thread makes me feel like all I missed out on was price.


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## cotedupy (Aug 27, 2020)

Kristoffer said:


> They don’t anymore? I’m shocked and bewildered. @Carl Kotte is this really true?



Definitely a trend that needs re-starting!


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 27, 2020)

cotedupy said:


> Definitely a trend that needs re-starting!


My giant Sab is actually one of the best knives I’ve tried. But it has more to do with the amazing work @RDalman put into it than the fact that it’s a Sabatier. It just works and it’s a heavy hitter that allows you to let the blade do the work.


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## juice (Aug 27, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> My giant Sab


I read this as "giant SAAB" and I'm all "Typical showoff Swede."


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 27, 2020)

juice said:


> I read this as "giant SAAB" and I'm all "Typical showoff Swede."


Sharpie can be removed Juice!


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 27, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> My first proper Jknife was a Richmond badged Kurosaki AS laser. Decent knife for the price. It was tipped so got returned.


Would you know how the original Kurosakis perform compared to the current ones?


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## Twigg (Aug 27, 2020)

Walnut handled Chicago Cutlery block sets were popular in Eastern Ohio in the mid 80's


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## jonnachang (Aug 27, 2020)

Ikkanshi Tadatsuna was a great laser for me back before Konosuke was a thing....2008 ish? Then POOF!


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## cotedupy (Aug 27, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> My giant Sab is actually one of the best knives I’ve tried. But it has more to do with the amazing work @RDalman put into it than the fact that it’s a Sabatier. It just works and it’s a heavy hitter that allows you to let the blade do the work.



Go on then... show us yer giant Sab...

(Ooh er missus!)


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 27, 2020)

cotedupy said:


> Go on then... show us yer giant Sab...
> 
> (Ooh er missus!)


I’ll just leave this here. 

One thing though! Before I sent it to @IsoJ it had the perfect weight of 337 g. But after he’s done with it it might be slightly lighter.


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 27, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> I’ll just leave this here.
> 
> One thing though! Before I sent it to @IsoJ it had the perfect weight of 337 g. But after he’s done with it it might be slightly lighter.



No worries Jari, I can always coat it in lead later.


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## IsoJ (Aug 27, 2020)

You mean it was 347 originally? And now 337? So I have to grind 10gr off with the stones


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 27, 2020)

IsoJ said:


> You mean it was 347 originally? And now 337? So I have to grind 10gr off with the stones


More than that! I think I took off 30 grams in total. I’m an extremely boring person


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## IsoJ (Aug 27, 2020)

Did you measure how many g/hour


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 27, 2020)

IsoJ said:


> Did you measure how many g/hour


Yeah that was terrible. At most 1 gram/hour. Probably less


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 27, 2020)

IsoJ said:


> Did you measure how many g/hour


Sabs are so soft you could whittle that off in mins


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 27, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Yeah that was terrible. At most 1 gram/hour. Probably less


And I loved every second of it. Now back to knives of yesterday. Did someone say gigantic old carbon Dicks?!


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## banzai_burrito (Aug 27, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> And I loved every second of it. Now back to knives of yesterday. Did someone say gigantic old carbon Dicks?!



That's what said sea?


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## F-Flash (Aug 27, 2020)

banzai_burrito said:


> That's what said sea?



Or he?


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## daddy yo yo (Aug 27, 2020)

Alder26 said:


> Certainly they are still talked about but so much less so, Konosuke HD2's, Kurosaki's (although that has a lot to do with knives taking a dip), Gingas. Not that long ago lasers were everything


I‘ll add Konosuke HD‘s!


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 27, 2020)

What's the difference between the HD2 period and the Fujiyama period by the way?


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## M1k3 (Aug 27, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> What's the difference between the HD2 period and the Fujiyama period by the way?


More letters and 1 less number.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 27, 2020)

The Fujiyama period was a little-known era in Japanese history, spanning from late July to early August of 1914, when Emperor Taisho ascended Mount Fuji, briefly making it the seat of imperial power.


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## M1k3 (Aug 27, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> The Fujiyama period was a little-known era in Japanese history, spanning from late July to early August of 1914, when Emperor Taisho ascended Mount Fuji, briefly making it the seat of imperial power.


Sweet little history lesson.
What can tell us about the HD2 period?


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 27, 2020)

No one knows yet, it's a premonition of things to come - the Heian Dynasty 2


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## TB_London (Aug 27, 2020)

Tojiro DP used to be the standard starter rec 

When Hoss put out the ITK I remembered hitting refresh a hundred times to get one of the first batch

Carters were reasonable money and solid performers

Mizunos were the single bevel of choice and put out some 240 gyutos that were high on my wishlist 

Fishandpoi was starting the custom rehandle trend


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## NO ChoP! (Aug 27, 2020)

Misono Dragon
Suien VC cleaver
Masamoto virgin
Hattori forum
Kikuichi ITK
Hiromoto AS
Yusuke extra thin or extra hard or extra whatever
Zwilling twin cermax
CCK 1303
Yoshikane tsuchime
Blazen
Dojo
Itou


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## McMan (Aug 27, 2020)

NO ChoP! said:


> Misono Dragon
> Suien VC cleaver
> Masamoto virgin
> Hattori forum
> ...


Forgot all about Dojo. Those were the jam. Still have a Dojo paring knife.


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## tchan001 (Aug 27, 2020)

Let's show some pictures as well. I'm sure there must be lots of new members who have no idea what these Yesteryears might look like.


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## Chuckles (Aug 28, 2020)

In the olden days you used to be able to go to parties where the piles of sweet knives got out of control. And pass arounds and loaners would find you home alone with 15 knives to get acquainted with and compare.


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## MowgFace (Aug 28, 2020)

McMan said:


> Still have a Dojo paring knife.



Ugh, I miss mine. Got the little guy at Japan Woodworker’s storefront. Gifted away. I didn’t think they would become impossible to find.


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## McMan (Aug 28, 2020)

Chuckles said:


> View attachment 92273
> View attachment 92274
> 
> In the olden days you used to be able to go to parties where the piles of sweet knives got out of control. And pass arounds and loaners would find you home alone with 15 knives to get acquainted with and compare.


RESPECT


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## banzai_burrito (Aug 28, 2020)

MowgFace said:


> Ugh, I miss mine. Got the little guy at Japan Woodworker’s storefront. Gifted away. I didn’t think they would become impossible to find.



Which Dojo are y'all's talking about? Hayashi or Kobayashi?


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## McMan (Aug 28, 2020)

banzai_burrito said:


> Which Dojo are y'all's talking about? Hayashi or Kobayashi?


The one that cost 60 bucks with the half-tang and stamped stainless cladding.


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## juice (Aug 28, 2020)

banzai_burrito said:


> Which Dojo are y'all's talking about?


_Cobra Kai_


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## JBroida (Aug 28, 2020)

MowgFace said:


> Ugh, I miss mine. Got the little guy at Japan Woodworker’s storefront. Gifted away. I didn’t think they would become impossible to find.


they're around, but the price is higher nowadays


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## sododgy (Aug 29, 2020)

juice said:


> _Cobra Kai_



Get him a body bag! YEAH!


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## Cheeks1989 (Aug 29, 2020)

Mizuno Tanrenjo Ao Hagane DX Suminagashi Wa Gyuto 240 via saltydog suggestion.

absolutely worth the hype.


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## Chuckles (Aug 29, 2020)

Speaking of Salty and his influence..
Here’s a good one. On the bottom the original white steel Mizuno Honyaki Gyuto. Maybe the genesis of forum obsession with honyaki gyutos? A 2014? Masamoto KS in the middle and a pre makers mark Mario Ingoglia on the top. It seems none of these knives are quite like this anymore.


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## TB_London (Aug 30, 2020)

Chuckles said:


> View attachment 92344
> 
> Speaking of Salty and his influence..
> Here’s a good one. On the bottom the original white steel Mizuno Honyaki Gyuto. Maybe the genesis of forum obsession with honyaki gyutos? A 2014? Masamoto KS in the middle and a pre makers mark Mario Ingoglia on the top. It seems none of these knives are quite like this anymore.



There’s that honyaki mizuno I was on about, still want one!


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## stevenStefano (Jan 5, 2021)

Apologies for digging up an old thread, but I basically stopped posting for about 6 years. Last time I was still around, Delbert Early, Pierre Rodrigue, Mario Ingoglia, BIll Burke, HHH, Devin Thomas, Marko Tsourkan and Will Catcheside were all vendors here.

The Carbonext was the new hotness and 210 sujis/line knives were the next big thing. Konosuke HD, Nenox G Type, Suisin Inox Honyaki were all highly regarded. Here's a screenshot of the forum from March 2015


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## jonnachang (Jan 5, 2021)

Aritsugu A type Gokinko steel.


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## stereo.pete (Jan 5, 2021)

stevenStefano said:


> Apologies for digging up an old thread, but I basically stopped posting for about 6 years. Last time I was still around, Delbert Early, Pierre Rodrigue, Mario Ingoglia, BIll Burke, HHH, Devin Thomas, Marko Tsourkan and Will Catcheside were all vendors here.
> 
> The Carbonext was the new hotness and 210 sujis/line knives were the next big thing. Konosuke HD, Nenox G Type, Suisin Inox Honyaki were all highly regarded. Here's a screenshot of the forum from March 2015



Same here Steven, good to see you back. Let’s not forget my favorite American Master Smith, Michael Rader as well. It’s interesting how things fall in and out of fashion on web forums when it comes to hobbyists and collectors, which most of us are.

@Chuckles I remember a certain party/weekend in Minneapolis where Salty, Mario and I rented a camper to meet up with you, Mr. Drinky, Don Ngyuen and several others. What a blast that was lol!


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## heldentenor (Jan 5, 2021)

stereo.pete said:


> @Chuckles I remember a certain party/weekend in Minneapolis where Salty, Mario and I rented a camper to meet up with you, Mr. Drinky, Don Ngyuen and several others. What a blast that was lol!



Yeah, let's do that again.


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## Chuckles (Jan 6, 2021)

I busted my nose on the zip line on day two of that shindig.


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## mikemac (Jan 6, 2021)

CCK 1303's FOR $25
CARTER HG'S FOR $17 +/ sun, and the original MUTEKI'S
ICHIMONJI TKC...remember the group buy....?
and the original (IMHO) laser...IKKANSHI TADATSUNA, which was one of the nicest knives OOTB in all the most subtle ways.


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## DavidPF (Jan 6, 2021)

tchan001 said:


> Henckels were bestsellers when the different Triad gangs went to war


The butcher knives, or the razors?


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## tchan001 (Jan 7, 2021)

Not sure. Just heard the story from an acquaintance.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 7, 2021)

Knives & chisels

Japanese natural stone & fish Deba. Fish cleaver from 1920's Janice grandfather fisherman Sampan tuna boats Hawaii.

My grandfather's boat building chisels. 1800's

My father's chisels for models for wind tunnels from 1939 to the beginning of space shuttle when he retired have over 100 of his chisels

Did quite a few wood relief with his tools. Most I sold or gave away this is one have left.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 8, 2021)

These were the Hawaii Sampan Tuna boats took this picture around 1970 as Corsair entering Kewalo basin as we were heading out to sea on the Kamome. The Kamome was a beautiful craft. Called a Haole Sampan because had traditional wooden Sampan hull & cabin cruiser topside with flying bridge. Went around the Islands in that boat including billfish tournaments in Kona Big Island of Hawaii.

In those days there were still the old Sampans.
Many had been lost at Sea. They worked well in heading sea, but with low sterns & single screw were tricky in very large following seas.
From early 20th century buy 1970's were on their way out. I supported a movement to save the last remaining wooden Sampan Tuna boat it ran out of steam nobody cared by the 2000's
The head of the movement argued that it would be saving important part of Hawaii's history. I agreed, but never happened.


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## jphy (Dec 4, 2021)

stereo.pete said:


> Same here Steven, good to see you back. Let’s not forget my favorite American Master Smith, Michael Rader as well. It’s interesting how things fall in and out of fashion on web forums when it comes to hobbyists and collectors, which most of us are.
> 
> @Chuckles I remember a certain party/weekend in Minneapolis where Salty, Mario and I rented a camper to meet up with you, Mr. Drinky, Don Ngyuen and several others. What a blast that was lol!


Anyone remember when Don was offloading Doi's what seemed like weekly? Carving turkey with a 330 Hayate Yanagi, all Don's fault...... but I have alot of Keijiro's knives because of him, and one of Keijiros fathers.


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## RRLOVER (Dec 5, 2021)

Chuckles said:


> View attachment 92273
> View attachment 92274
> 
> In the olden days you used to be able to go to parties where the piles of sweet knives got out of control. And pass arounds and loaners would find you home alone with 15 knives to get acquainted with and compare.


I miss the Olden Days!


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## Fynbo (Dec 5, 2021)

Toyama knives with iron cladding falls into the category now imo (
the long discontinued or obscure items) soon all his knives due to his age. Stellar knives from a true master blacksmith.


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## @ftermath (Dec 5, 2021)

Carl Kotte said:


> I’ll just leave this here.
> 
> One thing though! Before I sent it to @IsoJ it had the perfect weight of 337 g. But after he’s done with it it might be slightly lighter.



I want this


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## Carl Kotte (Dec 5, 2021)

@ftermath said:


> I want this


The big Sab? It’s awesome! Find a blank and Someone to do rough grind and HT and you’ll be strangely satisfied forever!


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## @ftermath (Dec 5, 2021)

Carl Kotte said:


> The big Sab? It’s awesome! Find a blank and Someone to do rough grind and HT and you’ll be strangely satisfied forever!


That is definitely going on my list of potential future projects. In the past I’ve thought about getting one and reworking the grind but was always put off by how soft the steel would be. It never occurred to me to just have a blank heat treated at a higher hrc.


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