# How to understand the strengths and differentiating factors of different custom makers



## josemartinlopez (Aug 23, 2020)

As someone quite new to the forum, I found it initially confusing trying to understand the different Japanese knife brands people were discussing. I had no idea where to start, and I honestly fairly late in the process realized it helped to mentally group knives into workhorse, middleweight and light/laser. Then I realized it's even more initially confusing trying to understand the different custom makers. Necessarily, they make less knives and there would be less people able to post about them, and even less people able to compare across makers.

Some wonderful KKF members I spoke to mentioned some of their favorite non-Japanese makers and I began looking up old threads about them. Thing is, a lot of comments in older threads can be generic. People can praise their favorite custom makers or draw up wish lists, but not always with a lot of specifics. Even where you have old passaround threads available, the specific feedback in those does not provide a point of comparison. What I mean is, most people are not in a position to try 10 relatively new makers recommended by some members, each making knives that cut well, with outstanding distal taper, etc. 

Short of reaching out to individual makers and just asking them, is there some way to get background information on them such as what their signature/house profile is, what steels they specialize in, and what they are particularly good at? What differentiates them from the other custom makers around the world one might patronize? What are they honestly not very good at? I know a custom order is supposed to allow complete freedom, but I doubt anyone would claim to be good at everything in the same way one would probably not ask Chris Martin, Beyonce and Yo Yo Ma to play the same music.

Also, how do people initially evaluate new custom makers (such as based on Instagram) without the chance to evaluate an actual knife they made? Are there certain things people look out for to at least check if someone makes the first cut?

I'm interested in this topic partly because I would eventually love to patronize a non-Japanese maker in East Asia but I don't know who they are and how to evaluate them. I'm positive tiny Singapore does not have any, but for the rest of my region, I think you'll find at least one each in Indonesia and the Philippines. Various countries have their own knifemaking traditions with rich histories, and I even saw a note in an old thread that there are great custom knife makers in Pakistan if you look hard enough for them.


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## M1k3 (Aug 23, 2020)

While definitely incomplete, check out the 'pass around' sub-forum.

P.S. Acetone works great at removing sharpie from metal.


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## Qapla' (Aug 23, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> I'm positive tiny Singapore does not have any...


Sadly, you might have missed it. The last traditional Singaporean blade-makers may have died out in recent decades.









Singapore’s Keris Collector defends his Malay heritage one blade at a time


While his peers were into comics and trading cards, Khairi Johari fell in love with the keris as a teenager. Today, he’s hoping to revive this passion for the traditional cultural artefact among the younger generation.




www.channelnewsasia.com


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 23, 2020)

Heh, but arguably the keris or kris tradition is associated more with Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines than Singapore itself.


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## JayS20 (Aug 23, 2020)

It's a bit complicated with Custom knifemakers you never held a knife from in hand. It's of course always a gamble and you should know what you want and like before going that way. I'm not asking a knifemaker to make this and that knife if it's not his style. You should be aware of that and there should be a general interest considering knife profile, aesthetics... Maybe you find some sources which make you curious enough.
Then you ask them what you would like to know and if the conversation was pleasant enough and the answers pleased you, you dive in.
In general there should be some basic knowledge which you will get over time with trying knives and an understanding what you want and what he is capable of.
Looks like you got yourself a fan in soigne


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 23, 2020)

There’s a lot of opinions but little real unbiased reviews of custom knifes, much much less than Japanese knives.

Besides trying it with your own hands, I don’t think opinions will help much, they certainly did not translate for me

However, you can get your money back on BST, they do well in resale.


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## Barmoley (Aug 23, 2020)

What’s the difference between opinion and “unbiased” review when it comes to reviews of knives on forums?


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 23, 2020)

Barmoley said:


> What’s the difference between opinion and “unbiased” review when it comes to reviews of knives on forums?



Unbiased Review has substance, compare with different knives on cutting different things. With measurements & specs to help substantiate the observations, review both pros & cons because nothing is perfect. These are very helpful.

Opinions just as such, opinions: The best, amazing, it’s art, perfection, fall through food, it’s like the food is not even there, best knive I’ve ever had, heirloom piece to pass on to my grand kids etc. etc. These are not very helpful IMHO, has more feelings than facts, which don’t transfer well person to person.


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## ian (Aug 23, 2020)

Barmoley said:


> What’s the difference between opinion and “unbiased” review when it comes to reviews of knives on forums?



Yea, seriously, I was about to reply similarly. Everyone uses knives in slightly different ways, with different levels and varieties of techniques, and has different aesthetic preferences. As much as I like your cutting competition threads, ma_sha, I think they’re just as influenced by your opinions and preferences as anyone else’s thoughts.

If what you want is a competition format, though, that’s something else.


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## tgfencer (Aug 23, 2020)

Honestly, Instagram is pretty useful. You can get a good sense of a maker's current sense of aesthetics, regular and one-off design patterns, and tendencies as well as how those things might have changed over time. Also, although not necessarily a concrete measure, how a maker uses instagram and interacts with folks on it as well as the platform itself can give a good indication as to their personality, their flexibility, and how responsive they might be as communicators. 

Looking up makers and following hashtags might seem weird sometimes, but I've learned alot about new and upcoming makers from there and having a visual database of user pictures and videos is very instructive if you have the time to look around. 

Don't have much to say about reviews, there's no easy shortcut to knowing what knife or which maker is best fit for you, but research should narrow down the options.


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## ian (Aug 23, 2020)

@ma_sha1 

Or maybe you’re talking about how many people don’t point out the negatives on the knives they own, perhaps because they want to preserve the value? @captaincaed’s been upset by this too, iirc. That’s a legitimate complaint. I think biased isn’t the right word to use here though.


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## McMan (Aug 23, 2020)

"How to understand the strengths and differentiating factors of different custom makers?"
Step 1: Use a bunch of off the shelf knives to develop taste and preferences.
Step 2: Step 1 is a pre-requisite


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 23, 2020)

ian said:


> @ma_sha1
> 
> Or maybe you’re talking about how many people don’t point out the negatives on the knives they own, perhaps because they want to preserve the value? @captaincaed’s been upset by this too, iirc. That’s a legitimate complaint. I think biased isn’t the right word to use here though.



That’s certainly part of it, but even the positive praises often lacks substance.


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## ian (Aug 23, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> That’s certainly part of it, but even the positive praises often lacks substance.



Ok, maybe you’re looking just for more detailed reviews of many knives, instead of quick one line opinions? That makes sense. You can get this kind of info from KKF, either in the form of the occasional formal review (or every post of @ModRQC to Show Your Newest...), or by reading through conversations in various threads, but I get that it’s very hard to find something about a specific knife you’re interested in.

It’d be great if there were more reviews posted to the Reviews subforum.


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## Barmoley (Aug 23, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> Unbiased Review has substance, compare with different knives on cutting different things. With measurements & specs to help substantiate the observations, review both pros & cons because nothing is perfect. These are very helpful.
> 
> Opinions just as such, opinions: The best, amazing, it’s art, perfection, fall through food, it’s like the food is not even there, best knive I’ve ever had, heirloom piece to pass on to my grand kids etc. etc. These are not very helpful IMHO, has more feelings than facts, which don’t transfer well person to person.


Look at a few recent passarounds, opinions for sure, but many pointed out good and bad points of the knives. If you read enough of such opinions you can get a feel for a knife. It will still not tell you if it will work for you, but you can get an idea. Different people like different things, for some food release is important for some it isn’t and they value how easy it goes through food. Some care about retention, some ease of sharpening, etc. Besides all that, we are talking custom knives here and people have a sample of one in most cases, so do you expect to generalize about makers by comparing single examples of their work? How does that tell you anything? What we cut is different, wet carrots, dry carrot, soaked potatoes, not soaked... cutting technique is different, sharpening skill, and on and on... what kind of reviews do you expect and what use would they be, if they could be done?

Look at how much crap Larrin gets when comparing steels, not knives and he is doing as much unbiased testing as is reasonably possible.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 23, 2020)

I agree even reviews may not be sufficient, my expectations might have been a bit unrealistic. I think we are both saying the same thing on that nothing can replace trying out the knife by yourself.


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## ModRQC (Aug 23, 2020)

Reviews of a knife can’t say much towards experience but blab. I now try to condense mine towards points where personal appreciation and experience meet very tangible aspects, and to provide pictures to support the tangible aspects - not especially what I write. More what the reader can see for himself. If targeted images and full specs don’t answer enough of the reader’s curiosity then I can only hope the words help a bit but I’m sure they won’t convince anyone.


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## cotedupy (Aug 24, 2020)

At this rate Jose, _you're_ going to be the person to ask for advice 

(Another nice buy on the Carter btw!)


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## M1k3 (Aug 24, 2020)

cotedupy said:


> At this rate Jose, _you're_ going to be the person to ask for advice
> 
> (Another nice buy on the Carter btw!)


He has to use them and get to actually know the differences. Not just the theory of the differences.


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## ModRQC (Aug 24, 2020)

Shouldn’t be so harsh - technically it is very possible for one to inflict oneself with a cut from looking at a knife review in a printed magazine. That’s as close to real as it can be as long as you’re in for 2D indigest food as well.


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## labor of love (Aug 24, 2020)

@josemartinlopez my advice is to make more friends (I know you’re already quite popular). And get in the habit of borrowing your friend’s knives. Experience is the best teacher, the more stuff you test the more you begin to understand what kind of knives are right for you.


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 24, 2020)

”All knives are the same, and all are a little different” - The Beige Lion, Tales from the suburbs, 350 B.C.


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## Matt Zilliox (Aug 24, 2020)

How do you tell if this is the woman you are supposed to marry?


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 24, 2020)

How many women do you want to marry?


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## Matt Zilliox (Aug 24, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> How many women do you want to marry?


Japanese or western?


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## panda (Aug 24, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> How many women do you want to marry?


69


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## ModRQC (Aug 24, 2020)

Ain't one trouble enough?


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## Kippington (Aug 24, 2020)

Matt Zilliox said:


> How do you tell if this is the woman you are supposed to marry?


This is how to pick the right woman.


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## Matt Zilliox (Aug 24, 2020)

Kippington said:


> This is how to pick the right woman.



classic. exactly how i choose mine


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## billyO (Aug 24, 2020)

Kippington said:


> This is how to pick the right woman.



Wow, That brought me back to being a snowboard instructor during my early 30s ......thanks for the memories!


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## DitmasPork (Aug 24, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> As someone quite new to the forum, I found it initially confusing trying to understand the different Japanese knife brands people were discussing. I had no idea where to start, and I honestly fairly late in the process realized it helped to mentally group knives into workhorse, middleweight and light/laser. Then I realized it's even more initially confusing trying to understand the different custom makers. Necessarily, they make less knives and there would be less people able to post about them, and even less people able to compare across makers.
> 
> Some wonderful KKF members I spoke to mentioned some of their favorite non-Japanese makers and I began looking up old threads about them. Thing is, a lot of comments in older threads can be generic. People can praise their favorite custom makers or draw up wish lists, but not always with a lot of specifics. Even where you have old passaround threads available, the specific feedback in those does not provide a point of comparison. What I mean is, most people are not in a position to try 10 relatively new makers recommended by some members, each making knives that cut well, with outstanding distal taper, etc.
> 
> ...



Best way is to buy a custom knife, form your own opinion, exchange notes with others, take it all in with a grain of salt. My first custom was a Kippington, the whole process was very educational, the experience helped me to define what my personal knife preferences are. IMO, talk is cheap—but when there's money on the line for a custom, is forces one to commit, to make a decision.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 24, 2020)

I might not be a commitment kind of guy.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 24, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> I might not be a commitment kind of guy.


Probably better for you to buy off-the-shelf, non-custom knives.


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## Kippington (Aug 25, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> I might not be a commitment kind of guy.


Maybe, maybe not...


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 25, 2020)

I enjoyed that old Kippington thread on the possibilities with a knife profile FWIW.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 25, 2020)

Could I use you as a guinea pig Kipp, what would you describe as your best profile and steel to potential customers?


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## _THS_ (Aug 25, 2020)

*"How to understand the strengths and differentiating factors of different custom makers"*
My answer: the only thing you can't skip is trying various knives to define what your taste is. What do you like of this knife, what do you like of that one? Do you think tapered spine is a must have? Do you enjoy a complex convex grind or you find enjoyable a compound grind too? Do you like to sharpen? Do you care about your knives to get a full carbon blade? 
Once you've done that, and it will take a looooot of time imho, you can start to look for those characteristics you enjoy on other blades and go for knives that have a good combination of em.


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## Villanelle (Aug 25, 2020)

I get the sense from this question along with many of your other questions that what you really want is to take out the process of TIME yet still gain intuitive and deep knowledge. I understand your eagerness and I say this with respect (because I have been there) it really is not possible. 

If you keep up with the forum, keep trying different knives and participate in discussions about your first hand experiences you will find over time recognizing the differences between makers will become easier. The problem right now is if you were able to magically line up a few smiths to sit down and talk one on one on their profiles and grinds it won’t mean anything because you won’t know if those are profiles and grinds that work for you. *The more knives you try the more you will be able to meaningfully analyze pictures and written reviews on how the knife will perform for YOUR technique.* Over time your eye will be able to pick out what you like/don’t like based on your experience. You will discover what steels YOU prefer for the ingredients you cut. Or you’ll see something that you haven’t tried and be curious, look up some reviews and GO WITH YOUR GUT if you want to take a chance on a smith. No one here is an expert with all answers because really there aren’t any. People try, learn and either keep or move on. Honestly, if you stick with it and try different knives you will develop an eye to see this stuff, but it will only come with time.


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## Kippington (Aug 25, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Could I use you as a guinea pig Kipp, what would you describe as your best profile and steel to potential customers?


It's always the one that a customer gets the most and best out of!


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 25, 2020)

Heh, it's tough looking you up as it appears you have a number of happy customers who received a variety of profiles among them.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 25, 2020)

I don't think that speaks to the core problem Eitan is facing here. My interpretation is he's struggling with the handmade nature of forged kitchen knives, and the business model of high-end Japanese knives in particular, where brand names don't necessarily signal consistency between different product lines. 

If you pay close attention to reviews here for a while, eventually you'll find people with opposite opinions
- Knife A is taller and more convex than Knife B
- No you're wrong, Knife B is taller and more convex
They're both probably right, based on the knives they own. Brands that aim for roughly similar features (imagine all the different Sanjo-made wa-gyutos, for instance) can have more variation within the same brand than between a different brand.

That's only really true for outlying examples, but it does complicated things. Even if most knives from high-end brands are pretty consistent (and we ignore makers like Fujiwara), there's another issue - brands don't operate how you imagine they do. Most knife makers aren't making knives for individual customers, they're making batches for different retailers. And retailers ask for different specs based on their preference and what they think will sell. So Knife A bought from one retailer might be more similar to Knife B at a different retailer, even if they also carry the "same" Knife A.

To further complicate things, Japanese knife makers will occasionally make batches for other makers they have professional relationships with. So even if you're talking about two Knife As from the exact same retailer, different batches may have been forged by different people.

So don't try to evaluate knives like cars, or some other mass produced product. There's so much variation that you'll never be able to definitively know the difference between brands.


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## ian (Aug 25, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> I don't think that speaks to the core problem Eitan is facing here.



As (I think) the originator of this conspiracy theory, I now believe that there’s a chance that Jose is not Eitan reincarnated, but is actually just an earnest newcomer to the knife world with the time and money needed to immerse himself in it at 1000x the usual pace...


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 25, 2020)

But I am asking about custom makers, not Japanese knife brands and the beautiful inconsistency of handmade products from small shops.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 25, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Heh, it's tough looking you up as it appears you have a number of happy customers who received a variety of profiles among them.


Simple—get one of each from Kip. A laser, work pony, work horse and hook grind.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 25, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Eitan. You can call me Eitan.



I'm just respecting his wishes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## IsoJ (Aug 25, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Simple—get one of each from Kip. A laser, work pony, work horse and hook grind.


I would be lying if I say that this hasn't come to my mind


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 25, 2020)

His books are closed so no go


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## Wander Vanhoucke (Aug 25, 2020)

Just give it some time, when you've been in the community long enough you'll pick out the good knives in no time.


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## Matt Zilliox (Aug 25, 2020)

I actually meant the how do you pick the girl you marry comment, not being cheeky. your ideal woman is different to mine, and you will never know what you like about women without dating them.

I've had some good knives go through my hands, some of the ones with reputations, some without as much (why are there not more Metal Monkeys here? seriously)

My top 3:
Metal Monkey,
Bazes
The9nine
honorable mention: Heldqvistmide

But i have a 2nd metal monkey which is totally different to my favorite metal monkey, totally different knives.
I have 3x the.9nines, a 240 honyaki thats a laser, a 240 ironclad workhorse, a 270 thinner wrought iron. All as different from the next.


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## Ruso (Aug 25, 2020)

If knives reviews do not mean much, then how come CM gets such a bad rep? I bet most people who are vocal about this knives never had a first hand experience, neither d I.

I think reviews are very helpful when you read enough of them and have some point of reference. The problem, however, lies in that the review sub-forum is an abandonrum and most valubale opinion/views are found inside many many many scattered threads.


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## lemeneid (Aug 25, 2020)

Matt Zilliox said:


> I actually meant the how do you pick the girl you marry comment, not being cheeky. your ideal woman is different to mine, and you will never know what you like about women without dating them.


Yup, try/meet as many knives/girls as you can. Just make sure you don't catch herpes or the equivalent of knife herpes at the end.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 25, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Yup, try/meet as many knives/girls as you can. Just make sure you don't catch herpes or the equivalent of knife herpes at the end.



Before getting married—there were girls I wanted to sleep with, fun one night stands, try out—and then there were the ones I wanted a long term relationship, those I wanted to bring home to meet the family—knives are the same for me. Although, I did have a girlfriend that also worked as a stripper that my mom liked (didn’t know what she did for a living).


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 25, 2020)

not sure about the 'bring home to meet the family' part... like women, I prefer to keep my knives as far away from those crazy people as possible, though some holidays it's unavoidable


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## lemeneid (Aug 25, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Before getting married—there were girls I wanted to sleep with, fun one night stands, try out—and then there were the ones I wanted a long term relationship, those I wanted to bring home to meet the family—knives are the same for me. Although, I did have a girlfriend that also worked as a stripper that my mom liked (didn’t know what she did for a living).


If we go by this, this is how I describe my knives

Toyanabe was the girl you ended up marrying, but you always cheated on her with TF who was your mistress who gave you mind blowing sex


Mazaki was the newly moved in girl next door you were attracted to, but was pretty meh in the end

Shig was the high school beauty queen who had a dull personality

Kato was the girl everyone said gave mind blowing sex, but was ordinary in the end

Ashi would be the girl who had everything, beauty, brains, popularity, but you were the peasant and could not chase her lifestyle

Kurosaki was the one who treated you well in the past, but left you for the other guy with more money

Hinoura would be the girl no one took notice of, but one day she just happened to catch your attention and suddenly everything fell into place

Fujiyama was part of Ashi’s posse, you couldn’t get Ashi, so you settled for second best

Hattori, well, ugly, fat and no personality, but somehow everyone wants to sleep with her.


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## daveb (Aug 25, 2020)

Marry em all. Sort em out later.

Gotta have some basis for comparison.


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## ian (Aug 25, 2020)

daveb said:


> Marry em all. Sort em out later.



what number you on now?


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## daveb (Aug 25, 2020)

20 something. 


But are we talking gyuto or wimin?


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 25, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> If we go by this, this is how I describe my knives
> 
> Toyanabe was the girl you ended up marrying, but you always cheated on her with TF who was your mistress who gave you mind blowing sex
> 
> ...




Wow, what a list, elegantly put, well done!

If you don’t mind me adding one more:

Shi.han is the women you married in your second marriage after divorcing Toyanabe. She is everything Toyanabe was plus maturity. You wonder how you’ve managed all these years when Toyanabe would chip her tooth on semi-frozen meat, each & every time.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 25, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> Wow, what a list, elegantly put, well done!
> 
> If you don’t mind me adding one more:
> 
> Shi.han is the women you married in your second marriage after divorcing Toyanabe. She is everything Toyanabe was plus maturity. You wonder how you’ve managed all these years when Toyanabe would chip her tooth on semi-frozen meat, each & every time.



@ma_sha1 's Shig was the homely, average looking girl that became a hot-to-trot stunner, after breast implants, nose job, etc.


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## ian (Aug 25, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> @ma_sha1 's Shig was the homely, average looking girl that became a hot-to-trot stunner, after breast implants, nose job, etc.



I think liposuction may be a more accurate analogy here.


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## Matt Zilliox (Aug 25, 2020)

now this is getting somewhere, sticky to come soon. no more knife questionaire


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 25, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> @ma_sha1 's Shig was the homely, average looking girl that became a hot-to-trot stunner, after breast implants, nose job, etc.



Got to do what you got to do to make it in Hollywood. She’s also got face lift, lip injection, Liposuction & tummy tuck etc.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 25, 2020)

ian said:


> I think liposuction may be a more accurate analogy here.


Definitely a nose job and lipo.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 25, 2020)

Heh going back to custom makers, any difference in choosing between their stainless and non-stainless work? Or does that just depend on what steels they say are their preferred ones to work with, as not everyone does stainless but newer makers increasingly do?


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## Villanelle (Aug 25, 2020)

Oh Jose you’re making me dizzy dizzy dizzy from these circles circles circles

Makers will have their specialties. You will have have your preferences. When these two things match you may enjoy their knife. This goes for stainless/non stainless too just as much as profile/grind.

I’m sorry dude you just really need to READ the responses people are leaving you.


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## Inosuke Hashibira (Aug 26, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> If we go by this, this is how I describe my knives
> 
> Toyanabe was the girl you ended up marrying, but you always cheated on her with TF who was your mistress who gave you mind blowing sex
> 
> ...


Had a laugh when reading this, how would you categorise Jiro in to this list?


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 26, 2020)

You beat me to that question.


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## juice (Aug 26, 2020)

Villanelle said:


> I’m sorry dude you just really need to READ the responses people are leaving you.


It's like a recurring theme...


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## lemeneid (Aug 26, 2020)

Inosuke Hashibira said:


> Had a laugh when reading this, how would you categorise Jiro in to this list?


Don’t have a Jiro or sampled one but let me try.

Jiro is the new girl in town. A little thicc but rumor has from the few people who have dated her, she’s pretty great. But can you keep up with her ever expensive lifestyle?

Here’s a few more.

Wusthof/Henkels is your childhood neighbor girl. She’s probably bathed naked with you in your parents inflatable pool. You lost contact with her when you left for university, and reconnect when you visit your parents once a year during the holidays. She could have been great for you but you were too stupid not to see and chase other girls.

Shun is the girl who has a bad rep. But those are all lies spread by some malicious folk. She’s actually pretty nice.

Kamikoto is the serial liar with the catfish profile on Tinder. But in real life she’s anything but. People are wise enough to avoid her.

If anyone has some to contribute feel free to add or edit.


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## juice (Aug 26, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Shun is the girl who has a bad rep. But those are all lies spread by some malicious folk. She’s actually pretty nice.


This is the reason we need a WIKI, knowledge-bombs like this.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 26, 2020)

Can you add a Takefu edition please?


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## MarcelNL (Aug 26, 2020)

I just wonder who TF is, after all, that mindblowing sex keeps triggering ;-) Terayasu Fujiwara?


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## ian (Aug 26, 2020)

MarcelNL said:


> I just wonder who TF is, after all, that mindblowing sex keeps triggering ;-) Terayasu Fujiwara?



You asking WhoTF is TF? If so, you are correct, it's Terayasu Fujiwara.


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## daveb (Aug 26, 2020)

ian said:


> Terayasu Fujiwara.



Like more than one gf, beauty is but a light switch away......


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## MarcelNL (Aug 26, 2020)

thanks!
I was toying with the idea to buy a TF Gyoto, to complement the Shig Santoku which is a tad short for some jobs and the Hinoura Nakiri (which is indeed growing on me lately). So...using it the dark is the advice....hmm.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 26, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Don’t have a Jiro or sampled one but let me try.
> 
> Jiro is the new girl in town. A little thicc but rumor has from the few people who have dated her, she’s pretty great. But can you keep up with her ever expensive lifestyle?



Jiro is actually the attractive girl from the posh neighborhood, that people often gossips about behind her back. But after a few dates, getting to know her, realizing she's a great girl, the real deal, a keeper.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 26, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Heh going back to custom makers, any difference in choosing between their stainless and non-stainless work? Or does that just depend on what steels they say are their preferred ones to work with, as not everyone does stainless but newer makers increasingly do?



Do you have any genuine interest in buying a custom kitchen knife? Honest question.

Or is this more mental calisthenic?


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## tchan001 (Aug 26, 2020)

Kramer is the beautiful daughter of a nouveau riche dad and loves walking around Milan with her brand name outfits. If you can't afford her tastes, you can only stare from a distance as you whiplash your neck when she walks past you.


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## ian (Aug 26, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Do you have any genuine interest in buying a custom kitchen knife? Honest question.
> 
> Or is this more mental calisthenic?



I think Jose is genuinely interested in buying everything under the sun, given his recent BST activity.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 26, 2020)

ian said:


> I think Jose is genuinely interested in buying everything under the sun, given his recent BST activity.


Yeah, thrilled to see JML pulling the trigger on some nice knives.

IMO, Kip is the one of the best options for a first custom—very reasonably priced, and was open to my million questions when I got him to make me a gyuto.


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## tchan001 (Aug 26, 2020)

Would be more thrilled if he posts pictures of his purchases?


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## lemeneid (Aug 26, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Can you add a Takefu edition please?


How about YOU do it.


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## tchan001 (Aug 26, 2020)

Raquin is the famous French track and field superstar who is fit and sexy. But whenever you think you can get a chance to chat with her, she always makes a quick getaway. Only guys who seem to get to date her are those with the quickest hand with their credit card after she orders her drink at the bar on her occasional days of relaxation.


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## Twigg (Aug 26, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Can you add a Takefu edition please?


Shun is like a dirty ho that got b!tch slapped by Takefu, a far superior ho. Takefu is perfect for that quick down and dirty job, but she has no outstanding qualities.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 26, 2020)

@josemartinlopez Here's my first custom from a couple of years ago—a 225 'work pony' gyuto in 52100 by Kip, asymmetrical lefty grind, Tas blackwood/g10 handle.

I'd thought long and hard before getting a custom. The decision to go with Kip over others was informed by a combination of reading a long thread on Kip's workhorse gyuto; chatting with other people who commissioned Kip on their experiences with the knife and process of working with the maker; and looking at pretty much every blade made by Kip that I could find online. In other words, felt I thoroughly vetted him out as a maker before approaching him.

The process was a whirl wind of text messages discussing profiles, steel and other characteristics I wanted in the knife. Careful not to micromanage—but to give parameters for Kip to work within, letting him make a knife that I wanted and one he wanted to make. It was a fascinating experience, looking at process shots, making decisions on profile adjustments, etc. He then sent me a bunch of options for handle wood, etc.

What helped me in communicating with Kip, was being able to reference characteristics of other knives I had.

Once my spot came up on the list, the process was pretty quick, I got knife in had sooner than expected.

Getting a custom was such a cool and illuminating experience, albeit a little stressful being my first time. Second time much easier, my decisions considerable more concise.


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## tchan001 (Aug 26, 2020)

Kipp is the part-time chef at the reasonably priced 3-star Michelin restaurant who always creates new dishes you want to try when you get a chance. Her cooking knowledge and creativity is astounding. But the waitlist is long and most people only get to see pictures of guys celebrating their appearance at her restaurant.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 26, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> the reasonably priced 3-star Michelin restaurant


...and which one would this be? Lisbon is good for that but only goes up to 2 stars.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 26, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> @josemartinlopez
> I'd thought long and hard before getting a custom. The decision to go with Kip over others was informed by a combination of reading a long thread on Kip's workhorse gyuto; chatting with other people who commissioned Kip on their experiences with the knife and process of working with the maker; and looking at pretty much every blade made by Kip that I could find online. In other words, felt I thoroughly vetted him out as a maker before approaching him.


Thanks, that's a beautiful knife, probably close to something I'd love to get. I'm still feeling out my preferences (and understanding the preferences of others here so I know who to ask about what) so would probably get something close to the house profile the first time I do a custom order. I do know I prefer push cuts to rock chopping, and almost never do the latter. Also, would prefer stainless where that works with the maker, for obvious reasons.

So what customizations did you end up requesting, and what were the options you were going through?


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## lemeneid (Aug 26, 2020)

Lets see if I can come up with a few more. 

Hiromoto, damn her plastic surgeon did an amazing job of transforming her from plain Jane to absolute stunner.

KS is just like dating your mom, old and outdated. There are many younger women to chose from. 

Mizuno is the amazing chick with everything going for her, but has this weird quirk of refusing to date guys who drive on the left side of the road.


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## Barclid (Aug 26, 2020)

God damn this dude's been here just shy of 2 months and he's almost at 500 posts.


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## ian (Aug 26, 2020)

Barclid said:


> God damn this dude's been here just shy of 2 months and he's almost at 500 posts.



Feeling nervous? Maybe if we get unpopular opinions going again you can widen the gap between your post counts.


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## Barclid (Aug 26, 2020)

ian said:


> Feeling nervous? Maybe if we get unpopular opinions going again you can widen the gap between your post counts.


Hah. More that I'm impressed at the level of his interaction. Kind of like you, Ian.


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## ian (Aug 26, 2020)

Barclid said:


> Hah. More that I'm impressed at the level of his interaction. Kind of like you, Ian.



I am actually a bot. Luckily noone has asked me to recognize any stop signs yet.


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## ModRQC (Aug 26, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> If we go by this, this is how I describe my knives
> 
> Toyanabe was the girl you ended up marrying, but you always cheated on her with TF who was your mistress who gave you mind blowing sex
> 
> ...



From this I’d be a Hinoura kind of guy. Very funny and interesting post there.


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## M1k3 (Aug 26, 2020)

ian said:


> I am actually a bot. Luckily noone has asked me to recognize any stop signs yet.


Do you know what a bike looks like?


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## ian (Aug 26, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Do you know what a bike looks like?



No, that’s why I haven’t commented in those threads yet.


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## juice (Aug 26, 2020)

Barclid said:


> God damn this dude's been here just shy of 2 months and he's almost at 500 posts.


Not that there's anything wrong with that...


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## JayS20 (Aug 26, 2020)

Barclid said:


> God damn this dude's been here just shy of 2 months and he's almost at 500 posts.


Quality over quantity. He created over 30 threads in 30 days. Luckily he's getting on a better road. Unluckily he starts to act wise and more knowledgeable than he is sometimes. But he's still on a good way and finally buying knives. Expect some interesting things from him.


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## T85 (Aug 27, 2020)

Ruso said:


> If knives reviews do not mean much, then how come CM gets such a bad rep? I bet most people who are vocal about this knives never had a first hand experience, neither d I.
> 
> I think reviews are very helpful when you read enough of them and have some point of reference. The problem, however, lies in that the review sub-forum is an abandonrum and most valubale opinion/views are found inside many many many scattered threads.


What is CM?


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 27, 2020)

Chelsea Miller? I realize I have no idea either


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## tchan001 (Aug 27, 2020)

Chelsea Miller is known for turning a horseshoe rasp into an $800 knife which people are willing to wait in line to buy.


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 27, 2020)

My algoritm recognizes bikes but can’t handle traffic signs. That’s what gives me away.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 27, 2020)

you're in good company, as many bicyclists don't recognize traffic signals


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 27, 2020)

Uber had to try to figure out the radar of self-driving cars to adjust to kangaroos showing up on Australian highways, so don't feel too bad.


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## T85 (Aug 27, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> Chelsea Miller is known for turning a horseshoe rasp into an $800 knife which people are willing to wait in line to buy.


Ugly ass knives if you ask me, but I always wonder how they perform in pro kitchen.


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## Inosuke Hashibira (Aug 27, 2020)

T85 said:


> Ugly ass knives if you ask me, but I always wonder how they perform in pro kitchen.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. . But also not to my eyes.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 27, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> IMO, Kip is the one of the best options for a first custom—very reasonably priced, and was open to my million questions when I got him to make me a gyuto.



Good choice, sounds like Kip is battle tested to survive legendary questioning. Other custom makers run the risk of being questioned to death, or forced to “Raquin it”, i.e. close the book to survive.


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## lemeneid (Aug 27, 2020)

I passed on my order with Kip when I bought my Kato and Denka, now I'm back in the queue with no end in sight


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## juice (Aug 27, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> Good choice, sounds like Kip is battle tested to survive legendary questioning. Other custom makers run the risk of being questioned to death, or forced to “Raquin it”, i.e. close the book to survive.


Aussies will put up with a lot, but are also capable of telling people to piss off if they get too annoying


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## Ruso (Aug 27, 2020)

T85 said:


> What is CM?


As other people pointed out, it stands for Chelsea Miller. I bet very few ppl on this forum actually tried her knives and judge her work sole based on other people’s reviews.


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## Kippington (Aug 27, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> Good choice, sounds like Kip is battle tested to survive legendary questioning. Other custom makers run the risk of being questioned to death, or forced to “Raquin it”, i.e. close the book to survive.


Closing the books is a tough choice, but it has to be done sometimes.
I have future plans, but every new order throws them further into the future. When my projected wait time hit 2 years, and I was getting five new orders in the time it took me to finish one, I gave up the idea of ever reaching the end and closed it.

On the topic of customer questions, this is one of the main reasons I did those educational write-ups. I can just redirect the questions to an existing resource! 
Also, I have just as many questions for the user, one of those things that needs to be done if I want to make a knife that works well for the buyer.
All of this can be skipped if I go production style, and leave it up to the buyer to decide if an existing knife works for them or not. That's the plan, but not for at least 2 more years...


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## T85 (Aug 28, 2020)

Ruso said:


> As other people pointed out, it stands for Chelsea Miller. I bet very few ppl on this forum actually tried her knives and judge her work sole based on other people’s reviews.


So are they right or wrong? Yes, I have never tried one because I think they look ugly as hell and the profile does not look good either. Maybe one day I’ll pull the trigger on used one. Also, After all these years I have yet to see somebody in a pro kitchen doing massive amounts of prep with a CM. Maybe they are good for home cooks.


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## juice (Aug 28, 2020)

T85 said:


> After all these years I have yet to see somebody in a pro kitchen doing massive amounts of prep with a CM.


Oh, I thought they were something you OWNED, not something you USED. Like a painting.


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## btbyrd (Aug 29, 2020)

I judge her work based on the fact that the knives are visibly garbage.


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## M1k3 (Aug 29, 2020)

btbyrd said:


> I judge her work based on the fact that the knives are visibly garbage.


How can you tell? The knives are out of focus, while she's in focus, on her Instagram.


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## btbyrd (Aug 29, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> How can you tell? The knives are out of focus, while she's in focus, on her Instagram.



That would be one indication.


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

She always looks like she needs to take a shower. 

Knives are ugly and do not look superior to anything.


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## btbyrd (Aug 29, 2020)

Let's keep her appearance out of this.


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

btbyrd said:


> Let's keep her appearance out of this.


Its fixed. Pretty and ugly people can still be dirty and in need of a shower.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 29, 2020)

OK, I gave in and found the Chelsea Miller site. Whoever brought up the topic deserves to be forced to reply to my posts for 3 months. My eyes still hurt, no one ever do that again.


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## RDalman (Aug 29, 2020)

Wasnt it something she rambled on about that you should cherish her knives "unique otherness".


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> OK, I gave in and found the Chelsea Miller site. Whoever brought up the topic deserves to be forced to reply to my posts for 3 months. My eyes still hurt, no one ever do that again.


I believe @M1k3 and @ma_sha1 brought it up at the same time, just saying...


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 29, 2020)

Good point. The knives on that website are up there with the Shigefusa nakiri to gyuto transformation.


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

Look into my eyes... you will love and cherish my modified farrier rasps... they are worth all the money I charge... you want to pull out your AMEX cards now...


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 29, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Good point. The knives on that website are up there with the Shigefusa nakiri to gyuto transformation.



And your ***** jabs are worse than your lame JML questions


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## M1k3 (Aug 29, 2020)

Twigg said:


> I believe @M1k3 and @ma_sha1 brought it up at the same time, just saying...


I don't believe I ever mentioned her name?


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I don't believe I ever mentioned her name?


Maybe is was @ian then?


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## daveb (Aug 29, 2020)

Y'all tread lightly with my next ex-wife. She looks good in a welding suit as well as evening attire. 

And she has a line of people waiting to buy whatever she makes next. She created her own market and they value her product as much as we nerds value "real" knives. Good on her.


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

Getting a new wife can be like buying a vacuum cleaner. You have the opportunity to get a lighter, more flexible model with improved suction.


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## M1k3 (Aug 29, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Maybe is was @ian then?


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## tchan001 (Aug 29, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Getting a new wife can be like buying a vacuum cleaner. You have the opportunity to get a lighter, more flexible model with improved suction.


Sound like the new wife went on the ma_sha1 Shige-fitness program. Also got pregnant quickly thereafter with two great kids popping up soon thereafter.


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## T85 (Aug 29, 2020)

I’m wondering why I never see one on the BST


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

T85 said:


> I’m wondering why I never see one on the BST


Because you now have to pay to get rid of them.


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## juice (Aug 29, 2020)

daveb said:


> And she has a line of people waiting to buy whatever she makes next. She created her own market and they value her product as much as we nerds value "real" knives. Good on her.


I've said it before, and no doubt I'll say it again, but people would (should?) be less worried about this stuff if they thought of them as "knife-shaped collectible art pieces" rather than pro-level working knives.


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

juice said:


> I've said it before, and no doubt I'll say it again, but people would (should?) be less worried about this stuff if they thought of them as "knife-shaped collectible art pieces" rather than pro-level working knives.


But, but, but... its fun to make fun of her out of context. You are right, they are some sort of art, not serious knives.

I really want to see a CM & Ryky collaboration though.


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## T85 (Aug 29, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Because you now have to pay to get rid of them.


 or maybe they like them so much that none wants to sell one ever


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

T85 said:


> or maybe they like them so much that none wants to sell one ever


I love mine!


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## T85 (Aug 29, 2020)

juice said:


> I've said it before, and no doubt I'll say it again, but people would (should?) be less worried about this stuff if they thought of them as "knife-shaped collectible art pieces" rather than pro-level working knives.


like a Ford pinto!


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## juice (Aug 29, 2020)

T85 said:


> like a Ford pinto!


I'd like to see one of them hung on someone's wall


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## M1k3 (Aug 29, 2020)

T85 said:


> like a Ford pinto!


If you rear end it, will it explode?


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

Hey @juice how long is your beard?


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## juice (Aug 29, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> If you rear end it, will it explode?


Wasn't that the Corvair? Or am I confusing my US car disasters?


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## M1k3 (Aug 29, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Hey @juice how long is your beard?


Long enough landscape mode is useless.


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## juice (Aug 29, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Hey @juice how long is your beard?


About 3-4mm now - I got annoyed by it while wearing a mask so I just trimmed it back again. Makes life easier


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

juice said:


> Wasn't that the Corvair? Or am I confusing my US car disasters?


They both were junk. We never had anything really good like Holden.


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## M1k3 (Aug 29, 2020)

juice said:


> Wasn't that the Corvair? Or am I confusing my US car disasters?


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

juice said:


> About 3-4mm now - I got annoyed by it while wearing a mask so I just trimmed it back again. Makes life easier


Sound like you are going for "Rugged Juice"


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## DoubleJJ (Aug 29, 2020)

I know some Amish guys down the road doing the same thing... not much to look at... them or their POS knives.


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

M1k3 said:


>



Nader called it dangerous at any speed.


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

I am so bored tonight I am watch early 90's reruns of The Highlander TV show


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## M1k3 (Aug 29, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Nader called it dangerous at any speed.


That was the corvair he said that about.


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## DoubleJJ (Aug 29, 2020)

So bored tonight I’m reading this!


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> That was the corvair he said that about.


Thought that was what you posted. Got my pieces of sh!t mixed up.


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## DoubleJJ (Aug 29, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Thought that was what you posted. Got my pieces of sh!t mixed up.


It’s easy to do around here.


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

Tracy Lords just made a cameo. She played a psychic.


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

This thread is so far off topic. To try to answer the original question, I think the answer is... 4?


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## DoubleJJ (Aug 29, 2020)

Like asking which food taste the best...


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

DoubleJJ said:


> Like asking which food taste the best...


That's easy, its haggis!


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## T85 (Aug 29, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> If you rear end it, will it explode?


Yes! Just like one of her knives


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## Twigg (Aug 29, 2020)

T85 said:


> Yes! Just like one of her knives


So, its dangerous and a bad idea to rear end pretty much anything.


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## daveb (Aug 29, 2020)

"Life is like a Ford Pinto with a full tank of gas, running on Firestone tires" was the expression from the day.


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## DoubleJJ (Aug 29, 2020)

daveb said:


> "Life is like a Ford Pinto with a full tank of gas, running on Firestone tires" was the expression from the day.


Retrofitted with a takata airbag!


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## juice (Aug 29, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Sound like you are going for "Rugged Juice"


Yes, for values of "rugged" spelled "lazy."



Twigg said:


> I am so bored tonight I am watch early 90's reruns of The Highlander TV show


Ah man, my wife and sister were team watching that show last week. Great accents.


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## T85 (Aug 29, 2020)

Twigg said:


> So, its dangerous and a bad idea to rear end pretty much anything.


Pretty much, even my girlfriend hates it


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## DoubleJJ (Aug 30, 2020)

RDalman said:


> Wasnt it something she rambled on about that you should cherish her knives "unique otherness".


What in the Sam hell does that even mean??? “unique otherness”...I know what unique means... only one of its kind and otherness - quality or state of being different. So isn’t that like saying her knives are sh*tty crap???


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 30, 2020)

Maybe it's the opposite of ordinary ownness?


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## RockyBasel (Aug 30, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> If we go by this, this is how I describe my knives
> 
> Toyanabe was the girl you ended up marrying, but you always cheated on her with TF who was your mistress who gave you mind blowing sex
> 
> ...



Brilliant!!


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## RockyBasel (Aug 30, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Lets see if I can come up with a few more.
> 
> Hiromoto, damn her plastic surgeon did an amazing job of transforming her from plain Jane to absolute stunner.
> 
> ...




You are good, gift that keeps giving


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## MarcelNL (Aug 30, 2020)

I'm quite sure TF sees a jump in sales from this thread alone, he'll have to hire lemeneid to keep sales up soon ;-)


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## tchan001 (Aug 31, 2020)

So in Lemeneid's analogy, a person who handles their knives with Ho wood is basically a pimp. LOL


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## tchan001 (Sep 5, 2020)

Lots of western custom knifemakers to be discovered.
And then we have those who explore new territory like ma_sha1.


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