# Sharpening Shigefusa Gyuto



## y32dsm (Nov 28, 2016)

I got a new and my first Shigefusa 240 kasumi gyuto. When I first received the knife, and it wouldn't cut anything, very dull. Therefore, I took it to #8000 stone and was trying to give a sharp edge. However, I couldn't get a stupidly sharp edge that I get from all others. I usually put a new knife all the way to the finest stone to see how sharp it can be. I understand that,Shiggy is low convexed edge and thick behind the edge. I only could get like #4000 grit sharpness. I personally felt Shiggy's blade is not as sharp as Heiji although they use same steel, rather "elastic? or gummy?" . I cant describe how I feel, but Heiji is rather brittle, glass, hige hardness, and insanely sharp. I DO NOT HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE with Shigefusa. Please tell me what i am doing wrong. Thank you in advence.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Nov 28, 2016)

Any knife that is not sharp enough to "cut anything" needs to have bevels established with a coarse stone that meet at an apex before you can do any polishing. Since your new Shigefusa lacked a bevel, using an 8000 grit stone wasn't going to make it any sharper, it was only going to polish a dull edge. (Well, actually if you worked at it long enough you could probably establish bevels with an 8000 grit stone after many hours.)

So grab your 400 grit stone and put an edge on your Shig.


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## Seth (Nov 28, 2016)

Mr. Tiger is probably right on this one though on a new knife I might be chicken to start at anything below 1000... get your marker out so you can see what you are accomplishing. Of the 1.5 dozen shigs I have owned, they have always come new very sharp, sometimes too sharp; i.e., so sharp that you are likely to lose the edge very quickly. You don't seem to be a beginner, so remove some steel at a lower grit and see what happens.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 28, 2016)

Is it conceivable that a new Shig would ship without the correct geometry? I mean we all know some knives don't ship with the final edge in place, but surely no decent new knife needs low grit work out of the box!


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## Benuser (Nov 28, 2016)

A lot of Japanese knives are shipped unsharpened, as the end-user, or, for him, the retailer, is supposed to put the final edge on them.
Better than a poor edge, or one you will change anyway. Any user of these knives is supposed to sharpen his own knives.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 28, 2016)

Benuser said:


> A lot of Japanese knives are shipped unsharpened, as the end-user, or, for him, the retailer, is supposed to put the final edge on them.
> Better than a poor edge, or one you will change anyway. Any user of these knives is supposed to sharpen his own knives.



Well, as I said above, we all know what you just said. But I certainly didn't appreciate - and am surprised to learn - that 'unsharpened' could mean requiring the user to start on a low grit stone. I thought we might be talking about a 2K or upward 'touch up'.

Of my six bought-new J-knives, not one has needed anything like a low grit stone for quite some time.

Given the stories we hear about Shig knives I am even more surprised. Isn't "no knife leaves the shop until it is razor sharp" one of the main stories?


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## Krassi (Nov 28, 2016)

..and Shigefusa uses JNS6000 and then a godlike Ohira Suita ..


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## Benuser (Nov 28, 2016)

Devon_Steven said:


> Well, as I said above, we all know what you just said. But I certainly didn't appreciate - and am surprised to learn - that 'unsharpened' could mean requiring the user to start on a low grit stone. I thought we might be talking about a 2K or upward 'touch up'.
> 
> Of my six bought-new J-knives, not one has needed anything like a low grit stone for quite some time.
> 
> Given the stories we hear about Shig knives I am even more surprised. Isn't "no knife leaves the shop until it is razor sharp" one of the main stories?



Some come indeed with some kind of an edge -- for export purposes, just to ease your own sharpening. And not for any actual use on the board.


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## Benuser (Nov 28, 2016)

You better take your coarsest stone when any new knife arrives -- see it as a part of the fun.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Nov 28, 2016)

Devon_Steven said:


> Is it conceivable that a new Shig would ship without the correct geometry? I mean we all know some knives don't ship with the final edge in place, but surely no decent new knife needs low grit work out of the box!



Correct geometry is a function of grind; edge bevels are a function of sharpening.

I find that when setting a bevel on a really dull knife, a coarse stone works best for me. It takes a lot fewer passes to raise a burr, and the fewer passes you make, the easier it it to get a clean, even bevel.


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## Krassi (Nov 28, 2016)

had this kind of fun on my Ikeda Santoku and Hinoura Sujihiki too.. and i was happy about it 
A lot of "meat" on the knife so i can make it like i like.. but its unexpeted if you awaited a atomcutter


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## Benuser (Nov 28, 2016)

Fewer strokes, less errors, indeed.


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 28, 2016)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Correct geometry is a function of grind; edge bevels are a function of sharpening.



A poor choice of words on my part then; I remain surprised at the extent to which a new Shigefusa knife might need the edge bevels set.


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## chinacats (Nov 28, 2016)

Yeah, i've purchased a handful of Shigs new and all came with extremely sharp edges, this is weird. Curious the source?


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## TheCaptain (Nov 28, 2016)

FWIW I just got a new shig from a smaller Japanese retailer and tested it against my watanabe. Both Nakkiri 180mm with less than 2 grams of weight difference.

The shig was much duller out of the box. Now, granted - the handle "feels" better on the shig but for ease of cutting the watanabe wins hands down.

EEEK. It seems like I may have to sharpen my Japanese knives sooner than expected.


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## chinacats (Nov 28, 2016)

TheCaptain said:


> FWIW I just got a new shig from a smaller Japanese retailer and tested it against my watanabe. Both Nakkiri 180mm with less than 2 grams of weight difference.
> 
> The shig was much duller out of the box. Now, granted - the handle "feels" better on the shig but for ease of cutting the watanabe wins hands down.
> 
> EEEK. It seems like I may have to sharpen my Japanese knives sooner than expected.



The Wat will beat the Shig for cutting due to the geometry more than edge sharpness...


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## DeepCSweede (Nov 28, 2016)

I am floored that it wouldn't come with a finished grind. All three shig's and my DT have been the sharpest knives I have ever received NIB. My Kato and several others needed light touch up to get to proper sharpness.


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## daveb (Nov 28, 2016)

I had a 270 Shig come new that did not cut like I expected it to. I was not ready for the full monty so it went off to visit Jon and came back tuned up. 

Cap, a couple stropping stokes on a 6Kish stone will help keep the wowser edge.


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## TheCaptain (Nov 28, 2016)

chinacats said:


> The Wat will beat the Shig for cutting due to the geometry more than edge sharpness...



That makes sense. Just trying to figure out why Shigs get more love here than Watanabe. Newer japanese knife user here testing different blades to se what I like.

Fwiw DH who worked in a professional kitchen also prefers the Wat.

Any feedback is appreciated!


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## TheCaptain (Nov 28, 2016)

daveb said:


> I had a 270 Shig come new that did not cut like I expected it to. I was not ready for the full monty so it went off to visit Jon and came back tuned up.
> 
> Cap, a couple stropping stokes on a 6Kish stone will help keep the wowser edge.



I will be playing with my jns stones and khao men with my knives this weekend.

Wish me luck!


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## y32dsm (Nov 28, 2016)

Seth said:


> Mr. Tiger is probably right on this one though on a new knife I might be chicken to start at anything below 1000... get your marker out so you can see what you are accomplishing. Of the 1.5 dozen shigs I have owned, they have always come new very sharp, sometimes too sharp; i.e., so sharp that you are likely to lose the edge very quickly. You don't seem to be a beginner, so remove some steel at a lower grit and see what happens.


Yes, I guess I am going to set the bevel.



Benuser said:


> A lot of Japanese knives are shipped unsharpened, as the end-user, or, for him, the retailer, is supposed to put the final edge on them.
> Better than a poor edge, or one you will change anyway. Any user of these knives is supposed to sharpen his own knives.


Just like you said, I posted if Shiggy was honbazuke on show your newest knife. 



chinacats said:


> Yeah, i've purchased a handful of Shigs new and all came with extremely sharp edges, this is weird. Curious the source?


From JNS I sent Maxim the message if Shiggies come with sharp edges. I am also just curious about this, but I dont mind setting the new bevel.


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## y32dsm (Nov 28, 2016)

Do you think I have to thin my Shiggy behind the edge since it is thick behind the edge. I have read some people wanted to thin their Shiggy because of the same reason. The some who did also said they could squeeze more out from thinning jobs. So far, I just cut papers with mine.

I also personlly feel that my Shiggy shares lots common with Mizuno blue 2 gyuto. Just saying.


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## Badgertooth (Nov 28, 2016)

From So Yamashita on Shigefusa shipped edges being ornamental and needing a microbevel:

"You MUST put on the second bevel, it is recommend by Shigefusa too, the edge as is is only ornamental, the edge angle is way too keen for practical use. I put 90 deg very very fine second bevel, i.e. 45 deg from both sides, this will make the edge last far longer, yet will not spoil the sharp feel basically at all, since its kept very fine, less than a hair width."


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## y32dsm (Nov 28, 2016)

Thank you for the comment. I usually put micro when one is too this behind. several light strokes will do.:thumbsup:


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## y32dsm (Nov 28, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> From So Yamashita on Shigefusa shipped edges being ornamental and needing a microbevel:
> 
> "You MUST put on the second bevel, it is recommend by Shigefusa too, the edge as is is only ornamental, the edge angle is way too keen for practical use. I put 90 deg very very fine second bevel, i.e. 45 deg from both sides, this will make the edge last far longer, yet will not spoil the sharp feel basically at all, since its kept very fine, less than a hair width."



In my case, it is opposite. Very dull! lol


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## Badgertooth (Nov 29, 2016)

I didn't in fact microbevel, I opened it up completely on choseras, and it was day and night. The Swedish steel, I think is very low alloy and capable of great refinemement. When you get it on the right stones which I found to be hard synthetics to establish a fresh crisp apex and stone medium to hard jnats, you can get a remarkable edge


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## Devon_Steven (Nov 29, 2016)

Benuser said:


> You better take your coarsest stone when any new knife arrives...



That's certainly not been my experience with new knives:

1 x Itinomonn gyuto (from JNS, ready for use);
1 x Toyama deba (from JNS, ready for use);
1 x Watanabe (mukimono, standard series, from Watanabe, ready to use);
1 x Watanabe (ko deba, standard series, from Watanabe, ready to use);
1 x Tanaka gyuto (from Metal Master, ready to use); and
1 x Tanaka petty(from Metal Master, ready to use).

All of these have been ready to use on the board. I have subsequently modified the bevels on all of these as they have been used and re-sharpended, but I have not needed anything other than a 6K touch-up (or nothing at all) out of the box.

I have bought one other knife, a Masakage honesuki from the BST here. It still had its factory edge (symmetrical grind, 50:50 edge) which featured quite a high angle on each side (and which I've subsequently lowered) but the cutting edge was still very sharp and its performance as a honesuki was still extremely effective.

In other words, the knowledge that knives can ship without the 'final edge' in place is well-understood, but *based on my experience*, I did not imagine that any low grit work would ever be required. 

Even more surprised with a Shigefusa, more so again after reading Badgertooth's comments about the super-fine 'ornamental' edge.


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## Marek07 (Nov 29, 2016)

Pretty new to Shigefusas so please take this comment with a pinch of salt... the two I got were sharp OOTB. Stropping made them positively sing. They're too new and in any case, I'm too green to put them on stones just yet. I imagine it'll be a while before they see anything lower than a 3k grit.


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## YG420 (Nov 29, 2016)

y32dsm said:


> Do you think I have to thin my Shiggy behind the edge since it is thick behind the edge. I have read some people wanted to thin their Shiggy because of the same reason. The some who did also said they could squeeze more out from thinning jobs. So far, I just cut papers with mine.
> 
> I also personlly feel that my Shiggy shares lots common with Mizuno blue 2 gyuto. Just saying.



Fwiw, the double bevelled shigs ive had were wedge monsters and couldve probably used some thinning ootb imo.


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## Mucho Bocho (Nov 29, 2016)

Badgertooth said:


> I didn't in fact microbevel, I opened it up completely on choseras, and it was day and night. The Swedish steel, I think is very low alloy and capable of great refinemement. When you get it on the right stones which I found to be hard synthetics to establish a fresh crisp apex and stone medium to hard jnats, you can get a remarkable edge



Has been my experience too. I set the bevel with JKI 6K diamond stone, then finish on Ohira w/nagura (medium) and Oduku w/400 Atoma slurry (hard, fast and fine) to be a winning combination.


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## Zweber12 (Nov 29, 2016)

Lively discussion and very interesting to read about the wide range of experiences. Other than the 2nd/3rd hand Shigs I acquired, I never had issues with the initial edge on virgin Shigs. I put on a micro edge and they all have been ready to go, no issues whatsoever.


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## Vangelis (Nov 29, 2016)

Same, I had 3 new Shigs guyto, petty and a yanagiba and I hadnt any complaints and in all 3 the initial edge was really sharp. I just add a micro edge.


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## y32dsm (Nov 29, 2016)

I am truly impressed Shiggy's impeccable fit and finish. Mine also has perfect balance with 229g. let me some work on stones and see how it cuts. It looks like very positive after some work.


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## krx927 (Nov 30, 2016)

My experience was the same as the one from y32dsm. My 210 gyuto came without sharp edge. I was also amazed as everybody was saying that it comes with super sharp edge.

No problem I just took it to the stones and it was fine! 

But for me this is a norm, majority of J knives came without really sharp edge: Akifusa, Heiji, Blazen, Yoshikane, Masashi Kobo
The exceptions were Miyabi (that was advertised as honbazuke) and Watanabe which was ultra sharp.


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## spoiledbroth (Nov 30, 2016)

It's not surprising you're buying a knife which is not for beginners. It's conceivable that unsharpened ones mix in with sharpened ones. If you are buying shig you shouldn't have trouble setting a bevel or six... Unless you just collect


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