# What is the best white #2 gyuto you have ever used?



## shinyunggyun (Jan 4, 2021)

or a top 3 or top 5. or even a top 10 if you have used that many


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## tcmx3 (Jan 4, 2021)

Mazaki 240 KU now that I've thinned it out. the steel is ridiculously hard for white 2, lots of heft but thin behind edge, good food release on taller ingredients, KNS handle is among my favorites, profile is cool.

but then Im biased because Ive put work into it and really learned its quirks.

is Kato actually white 2? if so then that.


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## Konig9402 (Jan 4, 2021)

(the infamous) Masamoto KS as my sole purchase so far


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## Helicon (Jan 4, 2021)

Kashima Sanjo 240


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## Runner_up (Jan 4, 2021)

I really like Munetoshi white #2.


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## slickmamba (Jan 4, 2021)

Konig9402 said:


> (the infamous) Masamoto KS as my sole purchase so far


does it cut rope 300 times?


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## talcum (Jan 4, 2021)

Carter Hi Grade 6.8 sun funayuki


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## Helicon (Jan 4, 2021)

talcum said:


> Carter Hi Grade 6.8 sun funayuki


Isn't that White #1, and also not a gyuto?


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## Nemo (Jan 4, 2021)

Best in terms of what?

Sharpening feel? Sharpenability? Edge retention? Toughness? Grind? Pofile?


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## talcum (Jan 4, 2021)

I thought it was a white #2 and funayuki vs gyuto looks about the same to me. But don't tell Murray I said that.


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## Helicon (Jan 4, 2021)

talcum said:


> I thought it was a white #2 and funayuki vs gyuto looks about the same to me. But don't tell Murray I said that.


Looks more like a deba to me


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## GorillaGrunt (Jan 4, 2021)

Gotta be Mazaki or Munetoshi, Kikuchiyo is probably up there but I haven’t tried a gyuto, only a sujihiki


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## Olsen (Jan 4, 2021)

Munetoshi from JNS are fantastic.... price and cutwise!!!


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## Barmoley (Jan 4, 2021)

Nemo said:


> Best in terms of what?
> 
> Sharpening feel? Sharpenability? Edge retention? Toughness? Grind? Pofile?


This ⬆

It's like when kids ask who would win in a fight a lion or a whale.


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## shinyunggyun (Jan 4, 2021)

Nemo said:


> Best in terms of what?
> 
> Sharpening feel? Sharpenability? Edge retention? Toughness? Grind? Pofile?


best in terms of "your" favorite. not mine.


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## rmrf (Jan 4, 2021)

For me in 240 w2, munetoshi > mazaki > kaeru > kochi. I use my kaeru more often than my mazaki though and I rarely use my kochi. 

Disclaimer: I can't differentiate between blue, super blue, and white in any context. I can differentiate between stainless/semi stainless and carbon on the stones, but not anywhere else.

I'm pretty sure that if you made a blue or SS knife with the same dimensions as my munetoshi, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 4, 2021)

Munetoshi and Mazaki.


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## JimMaple98 (Jan 4, 2021)

Mazaki white 2, I have a JNS that holds its edge amazingly well with barely a touch up required. I recently received a K&S Mazaki in a trade and it needed thinning real bad, so a few hours on the stones and it’s a machine, but I will say the steel is pretty hard and glassy on the stones for me, not really fun to sharpen like a conventional white steel knife.

overall for sharpening and use Yoshi stuff is great, almost regret trading that one for a Maz


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## childermass (Jan 4, 2021)

This:


Runner_up said:


> I really like Munetoshi white #2.



And I also enjoyed my Wakui.


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## Chuckles (Jan 4, 2021)

I am going to go with Shigehiro followed close by Gengetsu. 

My Mizuno Honyaki is nice but even though it was made in 2010 or 2011 it has changed from white #2 to white #3 in the last couple of weeks somehow.


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## mcwcdn (Jan 4, 2021)

Masamoto KS is really quite nice, used it tonight and it has a wonderful profile (for my needs). However if I had to pick one for an all around everyday "best" prep and go to in white 2, I think the Wakui takes the cake.


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## shinyunggyun (Jan 4, 2021)

rmrf said:


> For me in 240 w2, munetoshi > mazaki > kaeru > kochi. I use my kaeru more often than my mazaki though and I rarely use my kochi.
> 
> Disclaimer: I can't differentiate between blue, super blue, and white in any context. I can differentiate between stainless/semi stainless and carbon on the stones, but not anywhere else.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that if you made a blue or SS knife with the same dimensions as my munetoshi, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.


What do you use your gyutos for?


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## daveb (Jan 4, 2021)

Gengetsu > Amekiri (Yoshikane) > Kashima Sanjo (Yoshikane) >>>> Mune. The end.


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## Moooza (Jan 4, 2021)

Tsukasa Hinoura.


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## shinyunggyun (Jan 4, 2021)

daveb said:


> Gengetsu > Amekiri (Yoshikane) > Kashima Sanjo (Yoshikane) >>>> Mune. The end.


Is Amekiri the one that is made by Kazuomi Yamamoto?


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## RevJoe (Jan 4, 2021)

daveb said:


> Gengetsu > Amekiri (Yoshikane) > Kashima Sanjo (Yoshikane) >>>> Mune. The end.


Gengetsu? enlighten me please. Also how do you tell the Yoshikanes apart? Although I think the Amekiri is the stainless right? SLD or SKD?


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## dafox (Jan 4, 2021)

Wakui migaki


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## shinyunggyun (Jan 4, 2021)

Wakui. The up and coming superstar. If his 200 dollar knives are this good, imagine how great his 350 dollar knives will be.


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## McMan (Jan 4, 2021)

RevJoe said:


> Gengetsu? enlighten me please. Also how do you tell the Yoshikanes apart? Although I think the Amekiri is the stainless right? SLD or SKD?


Google is your friend


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## RevJoe (Jan 4, 2021)

Lol I see if JKI line.


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## jonnachang (Jan 4, 2021)

Workhorse: Mazaki Nashiji Kurouchi 
Lazer: Ikkanshi Tadatsuna


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## Nemo (Jan 4, 2021)

shinyunggyun said:


> best in terms of "your" favorite. not mine.


Well, as metioned, it depends which aspect of knife performance you are looking at.

Yoshikane Amekiri has a really nice thin grind and good taper. Perhaps feels a little in the harder side while sharpening and edge retention was about average for white2.

Kagekiyo is also thin, maybe not quite as hard (never sharpened them side by side though, so could be wrongmabout this), with similarly average edge retention.

There have been so many iterations of Mazaki and they seem to be so different that I sometimes wonder whether it's even worth mentioning. Certainly Mazaki seems to split opinions. I don't really know if this is because opinions are really split or because the ones that hate Mazaki got one from a poorly performing batch. I like mine. The steel feels pretty hard. It has a moderately chunky (heavy middleweight?) Convex shinogi-less wide bevel grind, decent taper and a thin edge. It's a good cutter. The steel feels pretty hard and has pretty long edge retention.

Hinoura Hyakuren is a middleweight widebevel. It is an OK cutter but nothing special. The steel feels less hard and is a delight to sharpen. Edge retention is still OK and it responds very well to stropping.

My Wakui is a hammered version. A beefy convex wide bevel with great food release but can wedge in hard foods. A little bit of taper. Nothing really jumped out at me sharpening it and edge retention is decent. Note that other versions (hairline) are very thin.

My Hiromoto honyaki needs a good thinning. The steel is obviously hard, but still creamy to sharpen. Can't comment on the edge retention because I keep meaning to thin it but haven't got around to it.

Can I include 1095 as white2? Quite simiar composition. Kippington does a pretty hard feeling 1095. Edge retention is good for simple steel. The laser is ground as a concave wide bevel, but the bevel is hidden in the finish. The taper is ridiculous (in a very good way). The knife is laser thin at the edge but more robust than a laser at the spine.

These knives are all very good in some aspects (different for each knife), some of them in many aspects. That's why actually defining the question was important.


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## Nemo (Jan 4, 2021)

RevJoe said:


> Gengetsu? enlighten me please. Also how do you tell the Yoshikanes apart? Although I think the Amekiri is the stainless right? SLD or SKD?


Gengetsu- great performing middleweight from JKI. Mine is in semistainless, so I did not include in this discussion.

There are thicker Yoshis but the Nashiji/ Amekiri are mostly (?all) thinner.

Nashiji is available in white2 or SKD (SKD12).

My other Yoshi is a SKD Tsuchime (hammered) and it is ground a lot like my hammered Wakui- as a convex wide bevel food release knife. I don't know if this is true of all hammered Yoshis.

How do you tell? Buy from a trusted vendor and ask them.


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## tcmx3 (Jan 4, 2021)

Id like my Yoshikane a lot better if it weren't stainless clad. 

if someone offered me a trade for a hinoura or Kochi I'd take it in a heart beat, but then for me polishing has become a bit of an obsession


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## Corradobrit1 (Jan 4, 2021)

Ashi Honyaki


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## GorillaGrunt (Jan 4, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> This ⬆
> 
> It's like when kids ask who would win in a fight a lion or a whale.



Who wins in a fight between a rhinoceros beetle made 100 times bigger and a rhinoceros made 100 times smaller?


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## Elliot (Jan 4, 2021)

Ashi Ginga.


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## daveb (Jan 4, 2021)

RevJoe said:


> Gengetsu? enlighten me please. Also how do you tell the Yoshikanes apart? Although I think the Amekiri is the stainless right? SLD or SKD?



Gengetsu is offered by JKI as a "house brand". Jon does not disclose who makes it and I frankly have no interest in knowing. They fit me like they're made for me. My two are white. My other two are stainless.

Yoshikane makes a couple different configurations for different vendors. The Amekiri is an exclusive for K&S offered in white or SKD. The Kashima is exclusive to Clean Cut. Don't know how much different the SKD Yoshi is that's offered from CC compared to the K&S variant. I forgot above the Zensho (Yoshikane) SKD that was made exclusively for JNS a few years ago. The best Yoshi (IMHO).


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## Malcolm Johnson (Jan 4, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> Id like my Yoshikane a lot better if it weren't stainless clad.
> 
> if someone offered me a trade for a hinoura or Kochi I'd take it in a heart beat, but then for me polishing has become a bit of an obsession


CKC carries iron clad yoshis. Hammered finish


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## ian (Jan 4, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Who wins in a fight between a rhinoceros beetle made 100 times bigger and a rhinoceros made 100 times smaller?





Elliot said:


> Ashi Ginga.


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## Jason183 (Jan 4, 2021)

So far I only tried 240/270 Masamoto KS, 270 Kochi, and 240 Yoshikane White2.

Performance wise 240mm KS is the best IMO, i really liked the laser thin tip, allows you to do very precise work, liked slicing mango into paper thin to put on top of rolls. If not because all reactive, I wouldn’t be selling it.

Overall, Kochi is the best out of the three, not too thin compared to KS and not too thick compared to Yoshikane, Easy maintenance, and ease to thin and sharpen.


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## ian (Jan 4, 2021)

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about pointless threads, but this one seems particularly ridiculous. I bet 95% of people responding here (myself included) couldn’t tell the difference between white #1, #2, blue #1 and #2 with any accuracy. I mean, I like the steel on some knives better than on other knives, but Ginga Wh 2 feels totally different to Munetoshi Wh 2, so I’m not sure I’d even guess they were the same steel. This is kind of like saying “who’s your favorite American celebrity whose social security number has two 3’s in it?”

That said, I’m gonna go Ginga, just because. Or the Kashima Sanjo. Or... or.... this is fun!!!


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## tcmx3 (Jan 4, 2021)

ian said:


> Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about pointless threads, but this one seems particularly ridiculous. I bet 95% of people responding here (myself included) couldn’t tell the difference between white #1, #2, blue #1 and #2 with any accuracy. I mean, I like the steel on some knives better than on other knives, but Ginga Wh 2 feels totally different to Munetoshi Wh 2, so I’m not sure I’d even guess they were the same steel. This is kind of like saying “who’s your favorite American celebrity whose social security number has two 3’s in it?”
> 
> That said, I’m gonna go Ginga, just because. Or the Kashima Sanjo. Or... or.... this is fun!!!



fwiw my evaluation had nothing to do with which knife was the best ht for white 2, merely my favorite knife that happened to be white 2


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## DT74 (Jan 4, 2021)

I have a geshin ittetsu in w2 i like a lot


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## shinyunggyun (Jan 4, 2021)

ian said:


> Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about pointless threads, but this one seems particularly ridiculous. I bet 95% of people responding here (myself included) couldn’t tell the difference between white #1, #2, blue #1 and #2 with any accuracy. I mean, I like the steel on some knives better than on other knives, but Ginga Wh 2 feels totally different to Munetoshi Wh 2, so I’m not sure I’d even guess they were the same steel. This is kind of like saying “who’s your favorite American celebrity whose social security number has two 3’s in it?”
> 
> That said, I’m gonna go Ginga, just because. Or the Kashima Sanjo. Or... or.... this is fun!!!


I never asked you to compare anything. I asked you which white #2 knives are "your" favorite.


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## Barmoley (Jan 4, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Who wins in a fight between a rhinoceros beetle made 100 times bigger and a rhinoceros made 100 times smaller?


See now, this is a real, valid question. Definitely, rhinoceros beetle. They can get up to 100 grams and lift up to 850 times their size. So if you made it 10 kg it would be able to lift 8.5 tons assuming its strength was kept proportional to increase in size in this scenario, no mammal can compete. We should all be thankful that insects are small.


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## Nemo (Jan 4, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> See now, this is a real, valid question. Definitely, rhinoceros beetle. They can get up to 100 grams and lift up to 850 times their size. So if you made it 10 kg it would be able to lift 8.5 tons assuming its strength was kept proportional to increase in size in this scenario, no mammal can compete. We should all be thankful that insects are small.


Sorry, this is gonna sound pedantic and nerdy, but... The reason that they can do this is not that they are insects. It is because they are small.

The force required to move an animal is proportional to the mass which is proprtional to the volume or length cubed ofnthe animal.

The force that an animal can produce is proportional to the cross sectional area of the muscles, which is in proportion to the square of the length.

This is why elephants have legs of huge diameter but are still relitavely slow to accelerate.


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## ian (Jan 4, 2021)

Nemo said:


> Sorry, this is gonna sound pedantic and nerdy, but... The reason that they can do this is not that they are insects. It is because they are small.
> 
> The force required to move an animal is proportional to the mass which is proprtional to the volume or length cubed ofnthe animal.
> 
> ...



How does one think about a beetle made of atoms 1000 times their usual mass, though?


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## Barmoley (Jan 5, 2021)

Nemo said:


> Sorry, this is gonna sound pedantic and nerdy, but... The reason that they can do this is not that they are insects. It is because they are small.
> 
> The force required to move an animal is proportional to the mass which is proprtional to the volume or length cubed ofnthe animal.
> 
> ...


So in general you are of course correct. We are talking about an imaginary scenario though, poof and bettle is 100 times larger. We also have examples of small mammals which still can't lift nearly as much weight as insects can so even relative to size insect are stronger. Nonetheless, you are correct and large insects would not be as strong as small insects partially because of your points and also purely because if they could produce such forces they would break themselves apart. They would have to be made out of some other materials plus the energies involved would not be sustainable so the materials and energy requirements would not allow them to be as strong.


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## GorillaGrunt (Jan 5, 2021)

ian said:


> How does one think about a beetle made of atoms 1000 times their usual mass, though?



Enlarged beetle or regular size ultra dense beetle? Because yeah if you shrunk the rhino using the Honey I Shrunk The Kids ray and it kept its mass it’d be interesting


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## Gregmega (Jan 5, 2021)

Nemo said:


> Sorry, this is gonna sound pedantic and nerdy, but... The reason that they can do this is not that they are insects. It is because they are small.
> 
> The force required to move an animal is proportional to the mass which is proprtional to the volume or length cubed ofnthe animal.
> 
> ...


Wait is that legit? Cause damn bros- class is in session for real rn!!


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## Iggy (Jan 5, 2021)

Hi there,

tried a lot... Mazaki, Kato Standard, Konosuke Fujiyama, Ashi, several Honyakis.... in the end I'd have to go with the Masamoto KS.

1. love the profile, still a classic
2. love the balance and sort of "middle-weight" of it
3. love the heat tread (can be honed with a Dickoron Micro, has enough edge retention and not too brittle...

Iggy


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## Konig9402 (Jan 5, 2021)

Iggy said:


> Hi there,
> 
> tried a lot... Mazaki, Kato Standard, Konosuke Fujiyama, Ashi, several Honyakis.... in the end I'd have to go with the Masamoto KS.
> 
> ...


Every time I use the KS gyuto I'm blown away by how nimble tip work can be despite the 250mm length.


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## Barry's Knives (Jan 5, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Gotta be Mazaki or Munetoshi, Kikuchiyo is probably up there but I haven’t tried a gyuto, only a sujihiki


Kikuchiyo is underrated


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## pgugger (Jan 5, 2021)

Among the few W#2 I have used, I like my Mazaki KU gyuto the most, then my Munetoshi gyuto. I also have an Ishikawa single bevel nakiri which is not in the same league but is kind of fun and different. I’m comparing these based on how I like the knives overall, not the heat treatment.


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## Barry's Knives (Jan 5, 2021)

pgugger said:


> Among the few W#2 I have used, I like my Mazaki KU gyuto the most, then my Munetoshi gyuto. I also have an Ishikawa single bevel nakiri which is not in the same league but is kind of fun and different. I’m comparing these based on how I like the knives overall, not the heat treatment.


just out of interest, how do you find the heat treat on the ishikawa?


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## DitmasPork (Jan 5, 2021)

"Best"? Of the W2 knives I have, Gesshin Hinoura Ajikataya has been a regular in my kitchen; my Mazakis are a fave; also love the Yoshikazu Tanaka W2.


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## preizzo (Jan 5, 2021)

Mazakis and hiromoto Honyaki


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## Barmoley (Jan 5, 2021)

Oh yeah, those hiromoto Honyaki are supposed to be good once they have been properly worked on.


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## adrianopedro (Jan 5, 2021)

Munetoshi Sanjo Kurouchi (Kouiti Turumaki)
Mazaki Kasumi JNS (charcoal, water quenched) 

Both are fantastic knives after putting some work


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## pgugger (Jan 5, 2021)

Barry's Knives said:


> just out of interest, how do you find the heat treat on the ishikawa?



Honestly, I never feel qualified to compare or evaluate heat treatments. I only sharpened it once after evening out some high/low spots on the bevel and don't use it that much. I mostly got it because I liked the story behind the maker and because the geometry is interesting... hollow above the bevel, so it is almost like just the right half of a Takeda knife. Seems to hold its very acute edge well in the light use I have given it.


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## damiano (Jan 5, 2021)

Two of my most used knives are white #2: the Munetoshi JNS petty and the Sugimoto SF4030 cleaver. They are both quite different to be honest.

The Mune has much better edge retention, sharpens easily and just cuts everything with ease. Not sure if my specific knife is a unicorn or all Munes are like this but it has almost the perfect balance of cutting characteristics. The Sugimoto is still good but loses its edge quicker. It does stand up to abuse though and also sharpens quickly. The Sugi is more reactive than the Mune. 

I now also have 2 new white #2 Masamoto KS knives, a sujihiki and a deba, but I haven’t used them enough to give a proper assessment.


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## Ensis (Jan 10, 2021)

Barry's Knives said:


> Kikuchiyo is underrated


I have been using the Kikuchiyo Kyuso 240 W2 gyuto lately. Excellent balance and cutting performance. But no patina yet! Unusual for an iron clad.


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## M1k3 (Jan 10, 2021)

Kashima (Yoshikane).


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## LostHighway (Jan 10, 2021)

Barmoley said:


> See now, this is a real, valid question. Definitely, rhinoceros beetle. They can get up to 100 grams and lift up to 850 times their size. So if you made it 10 kg it would be able to lift 8.5 tons assuming its strength was kept proportional to increase in size in this scenario, no mammal can compete. We should all be thankful that insects are small.



@Nemo is correct, the physiologies don't scale to anything close to that degree. A 100 times larger rhinoceros beetle would be dead in minutes if not seconds in normal atmospheres and temperatures. An 100 times smaller rhino would probably survive longer but I'm not sure how functional it would be.

IMO this has the makings of a more interesting thread than the OPs nebulous question.


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## Ensis (Jan 10, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> @Nemo is correct, the physiologies don't scale to anything close to that degree. A 100 times larger rhinoceros beetle would be dead in minutes if not seconds in normal atmospheres and temperatures. An 100 times smaller rhino would probably survive longer but I'm not sure how functional it would be.
> 
> IMO this has the makings of a more interesting thread than the OPs nebulous question.



Did I miss the memo? Why do some of these threads get silly?


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## LostHighway (Jan 10, 2021)

Ensis said:


> Did I miss the memo? Why do some of these threads get silly?



Given enough time most of the threads get silly (not entirely a bad thing) but more narrowly focused questions tend to engender more thoughtful responses.


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## GorillaGrunt (Jan 10, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> @Nemo is correct, the physiologies don't scale to anything close to that degree. A 100 times larger rhinoceros beetle would be dead in minutes if not seconds in normal atmospheres and temperatures. An 100 times smaller rhino would probably survive longer but I'm not sure how functional it would be.
> 
> IMO this has the makings of a more interesting thread than the OPs nebulous question.



Let’s assume the use of Ant-Man technology then so as not to be silly about it.

I don’t think it’s a bad question - it’s not “what is the best” or “what should I get” but “what gyuto made with White 2 steel has each individual had the best experience with or do they like the best and why.” Everyone’s criteria and experience may be different and those anecdotes in aggregate are useful.

#teambeetle


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## JaVa (Jan 10, 2021)

Not the biggest fan of white steels. I just don't get the edge retention to fill my hopes and dreams. Still regardless Wakui is an insanely lovely piece of all kinds of goodness in all other aspects.

...Go Beettles!!!


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## Ensis (Jan 10, 2021)

...Go Beettles!!!
[/QUOTE]


LostHighway said:


> Given enough time most of the threads get silly (not entirely a bad thing) but more narrowly focused questions tend to engender more thoughtful responses.


Fair enough...a sign that we are running out of fuel.


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## shinyunggyun (Mar 18, 2021)

Is the profile of the mazaki gyutos very similar to the masamoto ks? 

And are there any differences in the munetoshi gyutos that are offered by JNS and thecooksedge?


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## preizzo (Mar 18, 2021)

Mazaki kiritsuke or hiromoto honyaki


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## daveb (Mar 18, 2021)

shinyunggyun said:


> Is the profile of the mazaki gyutos very similar to the masamoto ks?



Depends on the Maz in question. He makes different profiles on Mon/Tues than he does on Wed/Thurs. Different still on the weekends.


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## panda (Mar 18, 2021)

Chuckles said:


> I am going to go with Shigehiro followed close by Gengetsu.
> 
> My Mizuno Honyaki is nice but even though it was made in 2010 or 2011 it has changed from white #2 to white #3 in the last couple of weeks somehow.


miz honyaki still the best white2 for me
didn't care for shigehiro steel though the knife itself was good

my.old.yoshikane Kasumi white2 steel was awesome, didn't like the knife however lol

my hiromoto honyaki doesn't feel good on stone but is very tough and acts more like a thick virgin carbon.


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