# First Wa Handle Install (noob question)



## Bico Doce (Jan 3, 2022)

Hi!

Im looking for some guidance here on my first wa handle install. I purchased a handle from Sugi Cutlery. I noticed it has a generous size hole in the handle for the tang. I was planning on doing a hot glue install and my question is could there be any issues if tang doesn’t fit snug in the handle (i.e. there is space around the tang to spare)? Should I add shims or anything like that to help stabilize it?

Thanks in advance for any of your insight

Here’s a pic of the handle


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## M1k3 (Jan 3, 2022)

Is it a little loose or "OH MY GOD THIS OVERSIZED!" loose?


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## Mikeadunne (Jan 3, 2022)

I would ask the man himself @JoBone is a member here


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## Bico Doce (Jan 3, 2022)

Just for reference, the knife I would like to rehandle is a Myojin SG2 240 so it is on thinner side at the tang. I measured and there is just over a 1mm on each side of the tang if centered in the handle (which feels like a lot but compared to my other knives)


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## birdsfan (Jan 3, 2022)

I am certainly not an expert, but...

1mm on either side isnt that much, but I assume that is where the tang meets the ferule. there could be a little more play, deeper in the tang slot. To pack out the void, I have used a pocket knife to whittle some thin strips of glue off of a glue stick, then slip a few of them down in the slot. When I do the install, I heat the tang of the knife with a heat gun, fill the tang slot with hot glue from the glue gun, then insert the hot tang into the slot. The heated tang gives you more time to work before the glue sets, At the same time, it will allow the tang to have a bit more play in the slot. It is important to hold the knife in the correct orientation until the tang cools and the glue sets.


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## M1k3 (Jan 3, 2022)

What I've done is make some wood shims/splinters to fill in some of the space. Insert hot/melt glue pieces in the handle, heat up tang to hot enough to melt the glue and install handle. While the glue is still soft, insert the pieces of wood. Clean off any excess. Cap the hole with beeswax.


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## Bico Doce (Jan 3, 2022)

Thanks for the insight everyone. I think I can make it work but bottom line is it won’t look great because there will be quite a bit of visible space between the tang and handle filled with glue/beeswax


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## Bico Doce (Jan 3, 2022)

Here is a shot of the tang pushed to one side which shows about 2.35 mm of space that will need to be filled with glue/beeswax . I guess it may not sound like a lot but it sure looks like it


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## TB_London (Jan 3, 2022)

I’d shim it otherwise you’ll have a struggle keeping everything in line and centred while the glue dries.


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## enchappo (Jan 3, 2022)

birdsfan said:


> I am certainly not an expert, but...
> 
> 1mm on either side isnt that much, but I assume that is where the tang meets the ferule. there could be a little more play, deeper in the tang slot. To pack out the void, I have used a pocket knife to whittle some thin strips of glue off of a glue stick, then slip a few of them down in the slot. When I do the install, I heat the tang of the knife with a heat gun, fill the tang slot with hot glue from the glue gun, then insert the hot tang into the slot. The heated tang gives you more time to work before the glue sets, At the same time, it will allow the tang to have a bit more play in the slot. It is important to hold the knife in the correct orientation until the tang cools and the glue sets.



Plus one for this method. But I usually whittle enough hot glue chips to pack the entire slot (packing them in as you go to reduce dead space), and then insert the heated handle.


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## Bico Doce (Jan 3, 2022)

@JoBone gave me a call and was very helpful with answering my questions. Great service from a great guy, based on this interaction I would definitely recommend Sugi Cutlery. Thanks to everyone for weighing in. Im going to roll with the hot glue method and I'll post a pic of the handle post installation (at the very least it will be a good laugh)


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## Bensbites (Jan 3, 2022)

in my experience, fill the hole with hot melt glue and it will hold fine. 

HOWEVER, alignment will be easier if you shim it do the dry fit is straight.


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## ian (Jan 3, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Here is a shot of the tang pushed to one side which shows about 2.35 mm of space that will need to be filled with glue/beeswax . I guess it may not sound like a lot but it sure looks like it
> View attachment 158876



You can dye the glue or wax black if you want it to match better.


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## Bico Doce (Jan 3, 2022)

ian said:


> You can dye the glue or wax black if you want it to match better.


That’s a great idea - would you mind elaborating on how I would do that?


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## AT5760 (Jan 3, 2022)

@Bico Doce pro tip with hot glue (from James at K&S, not me) - underfill the hot glue by a very small amount and use silicone to seal up the tang to the hole. It makes for a much smoother look.


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## Bico Doce (Jan 3, 2022)

AT5760 said:


> @Bico Doce pro tip with hot glue (from James at K&S, not me) - underfill the hot glue by a very small amount and use silicone to seal up the tang to the hole. It makes for a much smoother look.


Joe mentioned that as well. Would this type of silicone work?

Permatex 81158 Black Silicone Adhesive Sealant, 3 oz. Tube, Pack of 1


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AL6WLA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_P7NZ65W8H25F6CGM9SK8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


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## ian (Jan 3, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> That’s a great idea - would you mind elaborating on how I would do that?



Idk, I’ve only done it with epoxy, but I imagine it’d work the same. I used something like this.

I seem to remember someone also saying that you could mix appropriately colored wood dust in with the glue or wax to get a good color, but I haven’t tried that.


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## AT5760 (Jan 3, 2022)

I'm guessing that it would. I think I used something like this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-Advance...GKvw0J0kQO3kdzz4cJsaAt4NEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## McMan (Jan 3, 2022)

Permatex is automobile gasket silicone--and really good stuff for that!
This stuff, at least says it's "food contact safe" (looks like it's also USAD approved, FWIW):





Silicone RTV 4500 Food Contact Safe High Strength Silicone Sealant, Clear (2.8 FL. Ounce): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


Silicone RTV 4500 Food Contact Safe High Strength Silicone Sealant, Clear (2.8 FL. Ounce): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com




Some metal tables in restaurant kitchens technically require bolts/holes to be covered with silicone caulk to be formally NSF approved. If you could find whatever the recommended caulk for that was, you'd be good to go.

Edit:
Looks like it's this stuff:
"Commercial Kitchen silicone":





DAP 08660 Commercial Kitchen 100% Silicone Sealant, 9.8-Ounce, Stainless Steel: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


DAP 08660 Commercial Kitchen 100% Silicone Sealant, 9.8-Ounce, Stainless Steel: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com


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## @ftermath (Jan 3, 2022)

I would recommend filling the hole with glue shavings as tightly as possible. There will be a small amount of overflow if you do it properly but better that than underfilled. You’ll have plenty of time to center the blade as the glue dries. Once it’s solidified into a position that you like, let it sit until everything has fully cooled, maybe 20-30 minutes. Then go back with a razor, a rag, and *mineral spirits*. Trim the excess glue very carefully with the razor. Don’t get picky here, just square things up and remove the big chunks. Then pour some mineral spirits on a rag and rub until you get all the remaining excess glue off/smoothed out. You can wrap the rag around a butter knife to use it as a backing to get tightly into corners. Hands down the cleanest way to finish the install I have come across. You will barely even notice the excess space from the hole size if you are careful because everything will be blended and flush.


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## M1k3 (Jan 3, 2022)

Another tip, put tape around the ferrule so it creates a wall to catch any glue that may spill out.


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## Bico Doce (Jan 4, 2022)

here’s the handle attached to the knife. I used a hot glue gun and heated up the tip of the tang with my creme brûlée torch. Handle was taped to account for the glue mess. I left a small gap at the top to seal off with dark silicone (should deliver tomorrow). The knife seems to be straight enough where it shouldn’t affect its performance or feel. Thanks for all the pro tips and advice


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## Bico Doce (Jan 6, 2022)

Finally topped off the handle with black silicone. Here are the pics of the finished result


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## Bico Doce (Jan 6, 2022)

Here is what it looks like with the original handle (this is not a before pic, the shop accidentally sent me a second knife so I thought I’d take a pic for comparison)


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## tostadas (Jan 6, 2022)

Bico Doce said:


> Finally topped off the handle with black silicone. Here are the pics of the finished result
> 
> View attachment 159101
> 
> ...


Looks great! Is the silicone removable in the future?


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## Bico Doce (Jan 6, 2022)

tostadas said:


> Looks great! Is the silicone removable in the future?


Thanks! The silicone won’t melt at the same temp of the glue but once the glue softens the force from pulling the handle off will break the silicone seal


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## silylanjie (Jan 6, 2022)

Looks great, good job!


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## ian (Jan 6, 2022)

Purty.


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## Bico Doce (Jan 6, 2022)

ian said:


> Purty.


I will be your handle man for the mass drop your taking on. We got this


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## toddnmd (Jan 7, 2022)

You did a nice job. I use the melt glue and usually seal with plain beeswax, which works fine. Might have to try to colored silicone. Or I suppose some coloring could be added to beeswax.
I always like knowing that a melt glue handle install can be adjusted with a low oven later, if needed.


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## Bico Doce (Jan 7, 2022)

toddnmd said:


> I always like knowing that a melt glue handle install can be adjusted with a low oven later, if needed.


I ended popping this one back in the oven prior to adding the silicone to make some minor adjustments


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## JoBone (Jan 7, 2022)

Looks great!!!

For tang slots, it’s tricky to make one for all size knives. I shoot for 4.5x13mm for a 165-210 handle and a 5.2x14mm for a 240 handle.

I don’t shim with holes that have leeway, as the hot glue does the trick. When I first started with hot glue, I received feedback of a couple loose blades. That was the result of not using enough glue. Ensuring there is plenty of glue fixed that.

Use a neutral curing silicone with carbon knives to avoid any rust concerns. They also have greater adhesive qualities, which is nice.


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## Bico Doce (Jan 7, 2022)

Thanks @JoBone for walking me thru your process! I really like the handle I got from you, a big upgrade over the stock handle


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## cotedupy (Jan 7, 2022)

Top work both @Bico Doce and @JoBone !



M1k3 said:


> Another tip, put tape around the ferrule so it creates a wall to catch any glue that may spill out.



Another tip fwiw - a smear of oil on your fingers then rub on handle and blade, and you can just wipe any excess glue or epoxy off after. Changed my life (genuinely!)


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