# Diamond spray concentration question



## Adrian (Jul 24, 2015)

I am investigating diamond sprays for stropping purposes (having previously used only leather strops and stropping balsam). 

Obviously lots of people sell little spray bottles of 1 micron (or whatever) diamonds suspended in solutions. These are usually 25ml bottles. What is hard to find is the amount of diamond versus the quantity of suspension solution. Having investigated commercial supplies of this stuff, usually sold for industrial polishing applications and available in a huge range of micron sizes and different types of solutions, few suppliers detail the ratio of diamond to solution. Mostly the industrial supplies are sold in 250ml or 1 litre bottles. They are a great deal cheaper than the small spray bottles for example in the UK a 25ml bottle from a store selling razor stropping supplies is around £15, whereas a 250ml bottle from a commercial supplier is about £30 (for ten times the quantity). 

The commercial suppliers seem to be selling a concentration of 20ct/l usually, though double that concentration is available for a modest price increment. 

My question is what concentration is used for stropping kitchen knives on balsa or felt?

Adrian


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## Dave Martell (Jul 24, 2015)

I've been deep down this rabbit hole more than a few times over and I'd like to add some of my findings. 

In most every case the source of a suspension will not indicate the amount of diamond contained within their solution and the reason for that is they're making a proprietary product. They neither want to tell their competition how to make a similar product nor do they want to be compared against their competitors. This works out OK for them as long as everyone plays by the same rules, which most do, but then you have some rogue distributors/producers/retailers/salesmen who use this as a selling point - meaning they tell you what you want to hear to separate themselves from the competition. I say that "they tell you what you want to hear" because I've seen proof (from laboratories) of false claims. And speaking of laboratories, never trust a companies' own lab results...do I even have to explain why?

So what's the answer here? Well if you really want to know what's in a suspension there's only two ways to go about it to be 100% sure....

1. Make it yourself. If you purchase the dry diamond and liquid suspension and mix it yourself then you'll know the ratio at least.

2. Have an independent lab do an analysis on a retail product that you purchase. 


In my trials and errors I've come to look more for how a product works than what it's stats are. I've purchased thousands of dollars of diamond sprays/suspensions from well over a dozen sources and tested them. Some work good on some substrates but no one ever works great on them all. Sorry but there's no easy answer here.


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## CompE (Jul 24, 2015)

<removed>

Just trust Dave.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 24, 2015)

Something else to watch out for from retailers is that they water down the product with extender fluid. This is what's commonly found in diamond sprays/suspensions that settle out when sitting on the shelf.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 24, 2015)

CompE said:


> Concentrations will vary. Back when Dave used to recommend the stuff, I bought a bottle of This Site Not Allowed Here.com diamond spray. You can find a 2oz bottle now at 10ct/2oz. That's over 160ct/l.



I used to sell HA's diamond spray and liked the product. I never tested it on balsa but did on many different types of leather and felts. 

Please note that when I sold that stuff I was simply stating the concentration levels based on what HA provided to me. I have not been able to verify those concentration levels through laboratory testing.


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## Adrian (Jul 25, 2015)

I should add that I live in the UK and this stuff is a lot more difficult to find over this side of the pond than in the US. The sites I have looked at are selling their products for industrial use really and I suspect the statements they make about concentration levels are fairly true. Even if I buy the dry diamond and liquid suspension separately, I still don't know what the optimum ratio is for stropping. Hence some guidance on that would be welcome as I may as well learn from the experience of others.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 25, 2015)

I can appreciate you wanting to know the ratio and how that would help you make your own but I doubt anyone's done that, or done it enough to know for sure what to recommend. You never know though, hopefully someone will chime in.


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## cave_dweller (Jul 25, 2015)

Adrian said:


> I should add that I live in the UK and this stuff is a lot more difficult to find over this side of the pond than in the US.



I went looking recently and had similar problems finding the right information. Kemet was recommended to me, and while it's available in the UK there is a minimum order charge, which had prompted someone nearby to get it sent from the US! Their data sheet is next to useless, though it did confuse me by showing that the product has a "best before" date. For diamonds? Really?


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## Dave Martell (Jul 25, 2015)

For you UK guys...

http://www.agarscientific.com/diamond-polishing-paste.html

http://www.agarscientific.com/diamond-polishing-paste-lubricant.html


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## cave_dweller (Jul 25, 2015)

Thanks Dave, very useful.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 25, 2015)

cave_dweller said:


> Thanks Dave, very useful.




You're welcome!


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## Zwiefel (Jul 25, 2015)

the only thin i have to offer on this thread is: I'm so glad Dave jumped in. I have his 1U spray and have been quite pleased with it on a leather strop from Marko.


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## Adrian (Jul 25, 2015)

Thanks Dave. 

I mentioned the diamond lubricating fluid to my wife tonight at some party we were at. She said "you take care of the diamonds and i'll take care of the lubrication".


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## Tall Dark and Swarfy (Jul 25, 2015)

Holy sh!t that is funny!!!


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## Dave Martell (Jul 25, 2015)

Adrian said:


> Thanks Dave.
> 
> I mentioned the diamond lubricating fluid to my wife tonight at some party we were at. She said "you take care of the diamonds and i'll take care of the lubrication".




:doublethumbsup:


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## gic (Jul 26, 2015)

Oh that is hilarious  +2


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## chiffonodd (Jul 26, 2015)

Adrian said:


> Thanks Dave.
> 
> I mentioned the diamond lubricating fluid to my wife tonight at some party we were at. She said "you take care of the diamonds and i'll take care of the lubrication".



That's a keeper lol


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## rick alen (Jul 26, 2015)

Back on topic, US products told me that their diamond slurry uses just water.

The former knife guru at cheftalk told of using the USP stuff and having to wait a while for it to dry as it was rather dilute.

Questioning USP further they suggested just letting their product settle a few days then pouring/siphoning off some liquid.

Does lubricant really make any difference when using diamond on leather or balsa?


Rick


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## Dave Martell (Jul 26, 2015)

You don't need the lubricant at all on this type of strop but you need some sort of carrier if using a spray bottle and that's where this comes in to play.


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## MAS4T0 (Jul 28, 2015)

Dave Martell said:


> You don't need the lubricant at all on this type of strop but you need some sort of carrier if using a spray bottle and that's where this comes in to play.



How much paste should be applied and how would you recommend it to be applied and spread (on a leather strop)?
Would you recommend the 1um tube of compound and would there be any benefit in buying/ using any of the other grades?


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## Dave Martell (Jul 28, 2015)

MAS4T0 said:


> How much paste should be applied and how would you recommend it to be applied and spread (on a leather strop)?
> Would you recommend the 1um tube of compound and would there be any benefit in buying/ using any of the other grades?




I can't say how much to use, you'll have to try it and see where you go. I like a decent coating but not a build up, spread it around with your finger.

1 micron is the base line, or what most of us consider to be a good grade to try. You can go either way though, it's all experimental - no set rules here.


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## MAS4T0 (Jul 28, 2015)

Dave Martell said:


> I can't say how much to use, you'll have to try it and see where you go. I like a decent coating but not a build up, spread it around with your finger.
> 
> 1 micron is the base line, or what most of us consider to be a good grade to try. You can go either way though, it's all experimental - no set rules here.



Thank you Dave. :thumbsup:


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## Dave Martell (Jul 29, 2015)

You're welcome Mark


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## Slowth (Jul 29, 2015)

Dave for your diamond sprays,

How much should be sprayed on a balsa strop and how frequently?


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## Dave Martell (Jul 31, 2015)

Slowth said:


> Dave for your diamond sprays,
> 
> How much should be sprayed on a balsa strop and how frequently?




The general rule for any diamond spray (or any compound for that matter) is to apply as much as you feel you need to and reapply when the strop isn't doing what it once did or isn't doing what you expect it to. There's no rules here, too many variables, it's all trial and error.


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