# Kato Alert



## TheDispossessed

Looks like a handful just got to Denmark...


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## derek1ee

That was quick, wanted the 120mm petty but gone in 5min...


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## TheDispossessed

yeah the 120 called me too.....which is odd i have never really liked anything smaller than 180.


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## judeezy36

was hoping to gift myself a 240 workhorse for Christmas! oh well.


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## TheDispossessed

a 240 gyuto is gonna be the single most sought after knife by any of these guys. good luck w that!


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## judeezy36

yea the WTB threads in the BST tell that story all too well


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## TheDispossessed

ALL GONE! Madness


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## XooMG

I think I might wind up selling my 240 Kato. Will post about it shortly.


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## XooMG

update: just kidding, I don't have any 240s for sale.


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## Smurfmacaw

XooMG said:


> update: just kidding, I don't have any 240s for sale.



You are a bad bad man.

I actually saw the email come in and still wasn't fast enough for the guyto or one of the petty's. Got one of the suji's though.


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## supersayan3

http://www.slipstenar.se/sv/13_kato-san

Does this count as a Kato? If yes, available 2 pcs


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## pjotr

That knife is not made by Kato Kiyoshi.


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## jimbob

Soooo wanted that 270 suji!


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## Asteger

pjotr said:


> That knife is not made by Kato Kiyoshi.



But maybe by another Kato-san


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## pjotr

Asteger said:


> But maybe by another Kato-san



Yeah, I think it is Hiroshi Kato.


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## Asteger

Quite a few Katos in Japan


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## Smurfmacaw

A certain webstore that is not to be mentioned has Damascus and regular Kato Gyutos in stock. 210 and 240.


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## mikedtran

Smurfmacaw said:


> A certain webstore that is not to be mentioned has Damascus and regular Kato Gyutos in stock. 210 and 240.



You are on top of it! Decent prices though nothing crazy amazing.

Did someone already snatch up the 240 Damascus or was there not one to start with?


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## aboynamedsuita

Somebody must have grabbed it because I had a look earlier and there was one in stock. Not really interested myself.

I've heard from someone who bought a standard Kato in Japan that the JNS workhorse version is slightly different than the standard Kato.


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## Smurfmacaw

mikedtran said:


> You are on top of it! Decent prices though nothing crazy amazing.
> 
> Did someone already snatch up the 240 Damascus or was there not one to start with?



He got three of each in. I was lucky and just happened to see the email just as he sent it. I got the second 240 Damascus. They didn't last long at all.


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## labor of love

Yeah the JNS Katos are a little taller with a higher tip and more curve in the profile. The regular Katos are more narrow and have flatter profiles.


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## ynot1985

Are the Damascus knives better because I remember reading somewhere that it's a better knife than the normal ones and he only makes a few a year..

Btw, does this store have a bad rep or something? I know who is it is but I just don't know why


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## mikedtran

Smurfmacaw said:


> He got three of each in. I was lucky and just happened to see the email just as he sent it. I got the second 240 Damascus. They didn't last long at all.



Congrats!!! Any idea what handle you are going to get on it?

Also that is quite absurd that he got 3 of each, especially the Damascus ones!

I've got a 240 Damascus Kato hopefully arriving end of Jan or early Feb...


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## NotThinEnough

kato so popular. i wonder which maker is going to get its next trend-mill.


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## 2010ZR1

I had a 240 Damascus in my cart that did not go through. Got a 210. Now for a handle.


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## HomeCook

I got one of the 240s. There's still one left. If it didn't go through you should try again.


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## 2010ZR1

Showing out of stock for me. The Wenge is in stock but not the Damascus.


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## HomeCook

Oh ok, I was referring to the wenge.

I too would like to know the advantage of a damascus other than decorative value. Is it tougher or does it cut better or have better food release? I know the Shig Kitaeji is supposed to be better than then the Kasumi, but does that also apply to Katos?

I'm looking at the specs between the CKTG and the JNS and they both have the same blade height but the CKTG is 10mm shorter and half an ounce lighter. Don't know if that makes any difference in performance.

What I'm really curious about is the JNS Kikuryu Kato. Is that just a fancy name for a damascus or is it an entirely different better knife? It doesn't seem like that's been available for a long time. Does he still make them?


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## Asteger

How many g is 1/2 an Oz? Anyway, chestnut handles are a little heavier. 

There was only 1 batch of Kikuryu made


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## bkultra

14.175 grams to a half ounce.


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## Smurfmacaw

mikedtran said:


> Congrats!!! Any idea what handle you are going to get on it?
> 
> Also that is quite absurd that he got 3 of each, especially the Damascus ones!
> 
> I've got a 240 Damascus Kato hopefully arriving end of Jan or early Feb...



Haven't decided yet on the handle. I've got a bunch out getting handles at the moment so I'll let the dust settle a bit first and see. I've got a bunch of nicer handle blanks so maybe koa since I don't have any koa knives at the moment.


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## Chicagohawkie

Aghhhhh Fu.......! Missed the Damascus but settled on a 240 std! Hopefully it doesn't come with one of those undersized handles.


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## Asteger

bkultra said:


> 14.175 grams to a half ounce.



Then I'd say the 1cm less in length plus the ho wood vs chestnut would explain the weight difference, without implying any difference in geometry


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## HomeCook

Asteger said:


> How many g is 1/2 an Oz? Anyway, chestnut handles are a little heavier.
> 
> There was only 1 batch of Kikuryu made



The difference is ~20.5g

The CKTG is:
Spine Thickness: 4.3mm
Height: 50mm
Weight: 8.8oz
Length: 230mm

The JNS workhorse is 270g
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/yoshiaki-fujiwara-240mm-gyuto-sold/

I tried repeatedly for a JNS 240 workhorse without luck so this is the next best thing and likely the only Kato to fall into my lap. Still wondering if damascus is worth an extra $325 plus handle cost. Anyone?


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## Asteger

HomeCook said:


> I tried repeatedly for a JNS 240 workhorse without luck so this is the next best thing and likely the only Kato to fall into my lap. Still wondering if damascus is worth an extra $325 plus handle cost. Anyone?



There's no reason to assume that Workhorses are better than Kato's normal work, or visa versa.

Personally, I would go for the non-damascus. These Kato are thick and you won't maintain good performance if you only tend to the edge, which means thinning will be part of normal care, as it should. Kato cladding is on the hard side to begin with, and unless you're a pretty good polisher, that damascus cladding won't be looking so great soon enough. Damascus can take more work to keep looking good (though some people like this).

Otherwise, I stongly doubt there's any difference in performance.


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## inzite

woot congrats boys  you will love your Katos


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## daveb

HomeCook said:


> Still wondering if damascus is worth an extra $325 plus handle cost. Anyone?



It would not be to me. The only Damascus that makes my heart flutter is Watanabe and Yoshikane SLD. 

To you??? I don't know.


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## j22582536

heads up guys, rakuten has some katos in stock


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## ynot1985

Ah 195 and 210 gyuto


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## Badgertooth

I would pull the trigger if I didn't have one on order... Looks a pretty smart buy


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## Badgertooth

There's about 8 coming to JNS


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## TheDispossessed

Looks like maybe 8 shigs. Those blue boxes.....
One Kato possibly a 180 petty


Badgertooth said:


> There's about 8 coming to JNS


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## TheDispossessed

My guess is a big batch of shig KU petty knives.


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## YG420

Where are you guys getting this info from?


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## Iggy

JNS Facebook page :knife:


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## TheDispossessed

The palantir


YG420 said:


> Where are you guys getting this info from?


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## YG420

Ah geeez, might have to reactivate my facebook account for this lol


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## ynot1985

The blue box is definitely shigs. Kato is a black box.. I need that petty for my set!!


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## jacko9

I thought Maxim sent out email notification for Shig and Kato?


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## ynot1985

he does but he also posts photos a few hours before hand on fb and instragram


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## F-Flash

He does. When he puts them for sale. But usually he first posts pics of them on his insta / Facebook when he gets them.


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## jacko9

ynot1985 said:


> he does but he also posts photos a few hours before hand on fb and instragram



Ahh - thanks


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## mikedtran

Anyone else been constantly checking JNS front page?


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## TheDispossessed

I'm not too web savvy, but I'm not sure the links he will provide in the email will show up on the regular page. Could be wrong.


mikedtran said:


> Anyone else been constantly checking JNS front page?


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## mikedtran

They will show up on the front page/Kato page/Shig page. Though I just check the front page as I want to see all of them =)



TheDispossessed said:


> I'm not too web savvy, but I'm not sure the links he will provide in the email will show up on the regular page. Could be wrong.


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## Asteger

mikedtran said:


> Anyone else been constantly checking JNS front page?



No! You guys are obsessed :yammer:


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## F-Flash

They are coming soon..


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## Asteger

F-Flash said:


> They are coming soon..



Yes, eventually. But until then _don't forget to check constantly_


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## mikedtran

Asteger said:


> Yes, eventually. But until then _don't forget to check constantly_



Don't know if Maksim is just toying with us but an item (to not be named) appeared on the "featured item" list and now is off of it. Looked like something he had posted on Instagram/Facebook =p


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## schanop

Email is out now  1 gyuto and 1 petty, not workhorse though.


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## DeepCSweede

Couple up


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## j22582536

too bad I don't need any of them....


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## mikedtran

Those sold fast! =(


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## YG420

I missed out on the petty :/


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## Andrew

So many people chasing the same knives, makes it hard to find or buy what one really wants... I'm feeling fortunate that I "think" I have all the knives I need, and I know all the ones I'm going to buy for 2016...


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## Asteger

mikedtran said:


> Don't know if Maksim is just toying with us



Nah, I don't think he quite imagines that people are peering at their screens, refreshing constantly, even if it nothing seems to be happening.


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## ynot1985

It's a lot of effort refreshing for 8 hours straight!!!


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## mikedtran

Anyone catch how much the Kato 200mm and 150mm where?


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## TheDispossessed

The 200 was about $405


mikedtran said:


> Anyone catch how much the Kato 200mm and 150mm where?


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## Timthebeaver

The 200mm was £396/$573 including VAT (20%)


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## mikedtran

Just got a price quote on latest shipment of Katos, and looks like demand is really driving the prices up on these. I also rounded these to the nearest $10. 

240 Kato Damascus - ~$1050
210 Kato Damascus - didn't ask 

240 Standard Kato - $600
210 Standard Kato - $510


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## Asteger

Where from?


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## Miho

mikedtran said:


> Just got a price quite on latest shipment of Kato this was the prices for those who care. I also rounded these to the nearest $10
> 
> 240 Kato Damascus - ~$1050
> 210 Kato Damascus - didn't ask
> 
> 240 Standard Kato - $600
> 210 Standard Kato - $510



Which vendor is this? Prices seem quite high


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## mikedtran

Miho said:


> Which vendor is this? Prices seem quite high





Asteger said:


> Where from?



Yeah definitely think its very high. I was expecting $750-$900 for the 240 Damascus

PM me if you are interested in the vendor, don't want to put anyone on blast. As I doubt these will even hit their website, probably mostly pre-sold through email.


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## mikedtran

Also got multiple PMs already asking who the vendor is so people can buy them...guess the prices aren't tooo high?


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## Asteger

You just like getting PMs. I see your ploy!


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## Smurfmacaw

mikedtran said:


> Just got a price quote on latest shipment of Katos, and looks like demand is really driving the prices up on these. I also rounded these to the nearest $10.
> 
> 240 Kato Damascus - ~$1050
> 210 Kato Damascus - didn't ask
> 
> 240 Standard Kato - $600
> 210 Standard Kato - $510



CAD or USD?


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## aboynamedsuita

Smurfmacaw said:


> CAD



Now THAT would be a good deal!


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## mikedtran

That is in USD, I received prices in both CAD and USD. =)


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## glestain

So early today!


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## ynot1985

Sold out in about 10 mins


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## YG420

I finally got my 240!


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## jacko9

Good for you YG420 - I woke up last night a little after mid-night local time and decided to check my computer and happened to see the Kata and Shig email - I was a few minutes too late!

I guess I live on the wrong side of the world for this release.


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## YG420

I live in LA but was at work on graveyards and saw the email so I got lucky. Last time I tried I got to add to cart but I was still too late. So you have to be extra fast lol!


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## Iggy

jacko9 said:


> ...
> I guess I live on the wrong side of the world for this release.



Don't worry... doesn't help always to be in the right time zone when you can't sit 24/7 at your computer and press "refresh"... the mail came just after my breakfast break at the office... I have a Kato but the Shig Nakiri would have been nice... :nunchucks:


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## OneS

Doesn't anyone want the 210 kato that Tosho have this morning ?


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## jacko9

OneS said:


> Doesn't anyone want the 210 kato that Tosho have this morning ?



Yes but, did you see the price on those? 

Tosho is USD $ 563 vs JNS USD $376 for the 210mm Gyuto. Unless I'm looking at two different knives?


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## Farnorth

There is a 150m petty as well but that looks to be about double what it would cost from another vendor. Am I missing something?


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## mikedtran

jacko9 said:


> Yes but, did you see the price on those? Is that price comparable with JNS.
> 
> Tosho is USD $ 563 vs JNS USD $376 for the 210mm gyuto.



JNS new price for the 210mm is about $410-$430, but yeah $500+ is ridiculous imo.


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## inzite

probably the crap cdn dollar and massive duty on import are upping the price here. not surprised at all really


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## jacko9

inzite said:


> probably the crap cdn dollar and massive duty on import are upping the price here. not surprised at all really



I actually converted both to USD's but, if that's what the market will bear then it must be worth it to somebody.


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## Miho

I too find the prices to be quite expensive but in the end, tosho is a business and they could sell it for whatever they want.

People are still buying them, I believe there were 3 240s in the shipment and I got a call from them asking me whether I wanted to buy their last one so 2 were already purchased pre arrival. I'll probably hold off and try to buy one 2nd hand from BST.


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## Asteger

mikedtran said:


> JNS new price for the 210mm is about $410-$430, but yeah $500+ is ridiculous imo.



DKK 3000 last time at JNS or 442 USD right now. There must be taxes on the Tosho prices. Otherwise I don't understand.


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## mikedtran

Asteger said:


> DKK 3000 last time at JNS or 442 USD right now. There must be taxes on the Tosho prices. Otherwise I don't understand.



Whoops a little bit off yeah $442 *agree with ger** =D

I've talked to Tosho and also with some local guys around there no. Those prices are their international without tax prices unfortunately. Also there is shipping from Tosho so it is even more than $500 =p


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## jacko9

mikedtran said:


> Whoops a little bit off yeah $442 *agree with ger** =D
> 
> I've talked to Tosho and also with some local guys around there no. Those prices are their international without tax prices unfortunately. Also there is shipping from Tosho so it is even more than $500 =p



I guess I'll be looking elsewhere for my Kato. I so did enjoy buying knives from Olivia!


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## Furminati

Looks like they have a 240 as well


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## jacko9

Furminati said:


> Looks like they have a 240 as well


 They do and a Petty on page two on their web site however, the prices on those are a bit high for my budget.


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## OneS

Here was I thinking us knife nuts would pay 'anything' for a Kato. [emoji12] I'm opting out of the Kato craze only because it's not tall enough for my liking. The $AUD's value makes buying any knife painfully expensive now anyway !


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## masibu

OneS said:


> Here was I thinking us knife nuts would pay 'anything' for a Kato. [emoji12] I'm opting out of the Kato craze only because it's not tall enough for my liking. The $AUD's value makes buying any knife painfully expensive now anyway !



I'm hearing you dude.. still hasn't stopped me from looking and admiring though. Been more into finding cheaper knives and regrinding myself lately trying to find something that will at least let me pretend that I'm getting a good deal. The stainless clad blue steel ichimonji (or however it's spelled) on ebay is a pretty solid knife. It needs heavy thinning out of the box though..I'm opting for the belt sander for ease. I think the best value option for us at the moment is the Itinomonn (provided you order a few extras for JNS to go with it). Been really happy with mine and managed to convince friends just getting into the knife rabbit hole to buy one too.


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## DeepCSweede

Even with the higher price - they are available. I paid more than I should have but had to pull the trigger cuz it was in stock. I have had mine for about a week and if it wasn't for the Devin that just came in, I think I would love it. It could definitely use some more height for my taste. Other than that it is a fantastic piece.


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## masibu

I just can't justify paying such a premium for a knife anymore... as much as im sure i'd love it I'm a bit reluctant bringing truly expensive knives to work now. had a few knocked off in the last couple years


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## OneS

I presume you work in the biz masibu ? I'm sure my opinion of knives that are expensive and reactive would change dramatically if I were not just a home cook. Getting stuffed flogged,as you have, would also colour my actions, no doubt. Thanks for the Itinomon suggestion, but I'm trying to curtail the knife obsession, not feed it ! [emoji3] Hence my passing on the Kato


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## Asteger

OneS said:


> I'm opting out of the Kato craze only because it's not tall enough for my liking.



If you mean the 240 gyuto, aren't they at least 50mm? If you imagine a Kato gyuto with a taller blade, but still with that thick, convex grind, and so keeping the same geometry, then just a few more mm in height would add a huge amount to its overall weight and bulk, for what is already a hefty knife. It wouldn't work unless you otherwise changed the geometry. (An s-grind could be lighter, and sort of requires extra height. A convex gyuto will often be shorter.)


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## Kristoff

I can totally relate to what masibu gone thru. It's very very difficult to keep a reactive knife clean and dry 100% of the time when doing massive amount of prep and slicing/portioning protein during hectic service. But in the end it's the satisfaction of knowing that no matter how ugly the knife looks due to all the stains/smudges/rust spots that I am using a knife that cut thru everything with ease and not ruining any food products. The pristine look of a knife can always come back with some TLC.


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## OneS

Asteger said:


> If you mean the 240 gyuto, aren't they at least 50mm? If you imagine a Kato gyuto with a taller blade, but still with that thick, convex grind, and so keeping the same geometry, then just a few more mm in height would add a huge amount to its overall weight and bulk, for what is already a hefty knife. It wouldn't work unless you otherwise changed the geometry. (An s-grind could be lighter, and sort of requires extra height. A convex gyuto will often be shorter.)



Good point Asteger. The weight of a kato does give me pause too. I have a 270 Watanabe Pro gyuto which I find incredibly sharp, but possibly just a smidge too heavy for me to absolutely love. But I am persisting in trying to get used to it.


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## Asteger

OneS said:


> I have a 270 Watanabe Pro gyuto which I find incredibly sharp, but possibly just a smidge too heavy for me to absolutely love. But I am persisting in trying to get used to it.



No law everyone has tobget a 240. Try a 210?


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## jacko9

Asteger said:


> No law everyone has tobget a 240. Try a 210?



I actually like the 210 length. I picked up a Konosuke Fujiyama B#2 210 gyuto a few months back and I'm finding that I'm liking this size on my home cutting board. I think the only reason I might opt for the 240mm length is re-sale value since most pro users seem to like this longer blade.


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## masibu

OneS said:


> I presume you work in the biz masibu ? I'm sure my opinion of knives that are expensive and reactive would change dramatically if I were not just a home cook. Getting stuffed flogged,as you have, would also colour my actions, no doubt. Thanks for the Itinomon suggestion, but I'm trying to curtail the knife obsession, not feed it ! [emoji3] Hence my passing on the Kato



yeah I do.. not working anywhere special though. chasing the $$$ to apply for a working holiday visa for the uk (which is hard when I really, really like knives). My preferences in knives change all the time but even if I had a kato and would have no problem using it at work there is a creeping sense of paranoia. buying average priced knives also means its a bit easier to resell anything I buy. in the last month ive bought 2 itinomonns, 2 masakage, something off k+s and the ichomonji all in 240mm length and I have found homes for all of them relatively easily. The hardest part is trying to figure out which one I keep for myself..

The itinomonn is truly superb. I sold the first one I had off because I had other knives coming in the mail and really prefer something with a bit more weight but had to buy another one only 2 weeks later because I found myself missing it. I missed the sale both times as well so I'm shooting myself in the foot wasting money. it doesn't have the 'wow' factor I'm sure I would get from a kato or shig etc but from a performance perspective I really like it. 

regarding reactivity.. i used to worry a lot about it but I've recently been trying out my mizuno at work again which was sitting in a drawer for a while sadly. it needed thinning so thought I'd give it a go and forgot how much easier it is to remove iron cladding compared to monosteel or stainless cladding. Haven't done the best job doing it evenly but I think I could put up with a little bit of reactivity if it meant sharpening were that much easier. haven't noticed any produce browning.


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## OneS

Asteger said:


> No law everyone has tobget a 240. Try a 210?



Yeah, I currently oscillate between my 270 Mizuno and my other 240s - can't decide which ones I like better. I don't think I would like smaller (but I have a TF Maboroshi 180 gyuto which I love for small veg, having said that...).


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## OneS

masibu said:


> yeah I do.. not working anywhere special though. chasing the $$$ to apply for a working holiday visa for the uk (which is hard when I really, really like knives). My preferences in knives change all the time but even if I had a kato and would have no problem using it at work there is a creeping sense of paranoia. buying average priced knives also means its a bit easier to resell anything I buy. in the last month ive bought 2 itinomonns, 2 masakage, something off k+s and the ichomonji all in 240mm length and I have found homes for all of them relatively easily. The hardest part is trying to figure out which one I keep for myself..
> 
> The itinomonn is truly superb. I sold the first one I had off because I had other knives coming in the mail and really prefer something with a bit more weight but had to buy another one only 2 weeks later because I found myself missing it. I missed the sale both times as well so I'm shooting myself in the foot wasting money. it doesn't have the 'wow' factor I'm sure I would get from a kato or shig etc but from a performance perspective I really like it.
> 
> regarding reactivity.. i used to worry a lot about it but I've recently been trying out my mizuno at work again which was sitting in a drawer for a while sadly. it needed thinning so thought I'd give it a go and forgot how much easier it is to remove iron cladding compared to monosteel or stainless cladding. Haven't done the best job doing it evenly but I think I could put up with a little bit of reactivity if it meant sharpening were that much easier. haven't noticed any produce browning.



You're a braver man than I - I already find myself wiping my Mizuno furiously throughout my dinner prep, and I don't need the added stress of being in a work environment. That said, I love my Mizuno, like you; I don't know if its the blue steel or what but even as a very average virtually beginner freehand sharpener I can get it pleasingly sharp.


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## brooksie967

Toshoknifearts in Toronto just posted to facebook a 210 and 240mm kato gyuto as well as a 150mm kato petty. 

$830 for the 240!


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## easy13

Those Tosho Kato prices are insulting.


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## aboynamedsuita

And their Hinoura prices are really good, goes to show that there are a number of factors that contribute to price


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## inzite

easy13 said:


> Those Tosho Kato prices are insulting.



if they imported them through the proper channels then they would have been hit with a sizable duty. I paid close to 100 usd for my 240 when i imported it. And the bad cdn dollar might be a cause as well.


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## chinacats

I had to go do the conversion on that...wow. Wow to both the depressed Canadian dollar and Wow to the proudly priced (non-workhorse) Kato.


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## easy13

inzite said:


> if they imported them through the proper channels then they would have been hit with a sizable duty. I paid close to 100 usd for my 240 when i imported it. And the bad cdn dollar might be a cause as well.



How much did you pay for your 240 with the 100 for importing if I may ask?


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## aboynamedsuita

easy13 said:


> How much did you pay for your 240 with the 100 for importing if I may ask?



Duty on knives in Canada ranges from about 7% to >11% depending on the harmonized tariff schedule listing used. Inzite probably also paid federal/provincial tax to the CBSA at the same time, and possible brokerage/handling fees depending on the shipping carrier. The CAD has improved by about 10% recently (but it still sucks), so depending on when the original transactions took place that may also be a factor


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## Badgertooth

I guess it's starting to answer questions as to market elasticity.


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## schanop

Be quick, Maximo has some knives available.


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## YG420

I just picked up the 180 petty


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## DamageInc

YG420 said:


> I just picked up the 180 petty


Had it in my basket..... damn.


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## YG420

DamageInc said:


> Had it in my basket..... damn.


Sorry brother! I guess insomnia paid off for me today


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## aboynamedsuita

Picked up the 210 damascus gyuto. I was hoping that the email would've included the Kikuryu Maksim was showing off earlier, but no dice . I figured that Kato isn't going to be making knives forever so I should get one while I can, plus if a Kikuryu does come along I could sell this one.


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## jacko9

Woke up early today - checked email and they were sold out again!


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## DeepCSweede

tjangula said:


> Picked up the 210 damascus gyuto. I was hoping that the email would've included the Kikuryu Maksim was showing off earlier, but no dice . I figured that Kato isn't going to be making knives forever so I should get one while I can, plus if a Kikuryu does come along I could sell this one.



You can say thank you :knife: I was up when the email came through and almost hit pay on the damascus one, but I already have a 210 and am fine with it. Plus, I figured the wife might shiv me with it since in the last two months, three knives have come into the fold.


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## jacko9

DeepCSweede said:


> You can say thank you :knife: I was up when the email came through and almost hit pay on the damascus one, but I already have a 210 and am fine with it. Plus, I figured the wife might shiv me with it since in the last two months, three knives have come into the fold.



These were sold by the time I woke up at 5 AM - what were the prices on the Damascus 210, 200 Gyuto's and 180 Petty?


----------



## Iggy

jacko9 said:


> These were sold by the time I woke up at 5 AM - what were the prices on the Damascus 210, 200 Gyuto's and 180 Petty?



The price on the Damascus 210 was round about 830 (930-940$) if I remember correctly. Thought about it, but no... not in 210...


----------



## glestain

Is the Damascus finish from chemical etch or polish?


----------



## krx927

Iggy said:


> The price on the Damascus 210 was round about 830 (930-940$) if I remember correctly. Thought about it, but no... not in 210...



It was just too expensive to us from EU! Last week there was one on B/S/T. For sure it would be cheaper to get it form Canada to EU.


----------



## mikedtran

Iggy said:


> The price on the Damascus 210 was round about 830 (930-940$) if I remember correctly. Thought about it, but no... not in 210...



I'm guessing that is including VAT? So around $740-$750 ex-VAT


----------



## YG420

tjangula said:


> Picked up the 210 damascus gyuto. I was hoping that the email would've included the Kikuryu Maksim was showing off earlier, but no dice . I figured that Kato isn't going to be making knives forever so I should get one while I can, plus if a Kikuryu does come along I could sell this one.



Nice score! I wouldve pulled the trigger on it if i ddint have one coming in. Now gotta get my hands on a 240 damascus!


----------



## Iggy

mikedtran said:


> I'm guessing that is including VAT? So around $740-$750 ex-VAT



Yes!


----------



## Chicagohawkie

I was up, got the email, had the 210 Kato Damascus in the cart . Thought about it for a second and passed. Crazy money for a 210.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

The VAT price on the 210 Kato was well over 900! The picture I looked at quick showed a bare blade with no handle, not sure if it included one of those 20-30 dollar chestnut handles. Coupled with the possibility of being taxed at import into the US made this an easy pass by situation.


----------



## YG420

I think maksim is pretty reasonable and the craftsmenship on the kato damascus is just stunning. Compared to what tosho is charging this was a steal!


----------



## Asteger

Chicagohawkie said:


> The VAT price on the 210 Kato was well over 900! The picture I looked at quick showed a bare blade with no handle, not sure if it included one of those 20-30 dollar chestnut handles. Coupled with the possibility of being taxed at import into the US made this an easy pass by situation.



Not sure if you know or not - you don't pay the VAT price if you're ordering from outside the EU. Also, I think it's very rare that any knife-o's in the States pay any import duties, so not a concern either.


----------



## mikedtran

Chicagohawkie said:


> The VAT price on the 210 Kato was well over 900! The picture I looked at quick showed a bare blade with no handle, not sure if it included one of those 20-30 dollar chestnut handles. Coupled with the possibility of being taxed at import into the US made this an easy pass by situation.



I have yet to be taxed on any knife purchases including a $1k+ package from Maksim.

*Price comparison of 210mm Damascus:*
JNS - $740 (unsure on handle)
Site to be not named - $775 (no handle)
Tosho - $978 (with ho-handle)


----------



## aboynamedsuita

mikedtran said:


> I have yet to be taxed on any knife purchases including a $1k+ package from Maksim.
> 
> *Price comparison of 210mm Damascus:*
> JNS - $740 (unsure on handle)
> Site to be not named - $775 (no handle)
> Tosho - $978 (with ho-handle)



Thanks mikedtran, I did the same comparison as well before purchasing.

The 5200 DKK comes as $787.91 USD in Google, and it was $814.95 USD of my PayPal balance due to their conversion fee (I only have CAD and USD at PayPal, so I think most would have to pay the DKK fee anyways). Overall I see it as a good deal; shipping was included and if I got it "to go" it would've been WAY more.

Btw, the handle is apparently d shaped burnt chestnut with Buffalo horn, but it will probably be getting a custom unless a Kikuryu comes along to take its place


----------



## mikedtran

tjangula said:


> Thanks mikedtran, I did the same comparison as well before purchasing.
> 
> The 5200 DKK comes as $787.91 USD in Google, and it was $814.95 USD of my PayPal balance due to their conversion fee (I only have CAD and USD at PayPal, so I think most would have to pay the DKK fee anyways). Overall I see it as a good deal; shipping was included and if I got it "to go" it would've been WAY more.
> 
> Btw, the handle is apparently d shaped burnt chestnut with Buffalo horn, but it will probably be getting a custom unless a Kikuryu comes along to take its place



Even at $810 that is a really solid deal especially if it comes with a handle (even though you will be replacing it).

I also have to say after Mike (smurf's) comment about how great his Damascus Kato is I really want to hunt one of these down.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Got ya on the VAT, that was an oversight, so I guess the price is inline with others. I also haven't been nicked with a tariff as of yet, but I find that the chance increases with larger dollar transactions. I repatriated 2 Gibson les Paul's from Japan a few years ago and was hit with a giant tax, even though Gibson is made in the US - they would not release my guitars to me unless I paid the tax. I had to go to a hearing, which I easily won, for that to be returned - so I guess I'm a little apprehensive at times.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

mikedtran said:


> Even at $810 that is a really solid deal especially if it comes with a handle (even though you will be replacing it).
> 
> I also have to say after Mike (smurf's) comment about how great his Damascus Kato is I really want to hunt one of these down.



We may be able to work something out :wink:


----------



## Furminati

There's two Kato yanagibas in blue steel on Tosho.


----------



## Furminati

I'm left handed, but they may be interesting to some


----------



## YG420

His prices are kinda high. $500 for a 150 petty...


----------



## j22582536

YG420 said:


> His prices are kinda high. $500 for a 150 petty...



Yeah, I bought my 180mm workhorse petty from Maksim for just 300CAD around 6 months ago....


----------



## MAS4T0

I notice that the frequent posters in both the Shigefusa and Kato thread are the same people.:groucho:


----------



## mikedtran

Kato Dasmascus Gytuo 210mm - $775 shipped - http://item.rakuten.co.jp/nzshinkai/262770wk2d/

I have worked with this seller before and he will deduct 8% consumption tax for international orders as well as ship internationlly if you email him

Let's see if it is Kato-fever season. Stopwatch started.



MAS4T0 said:


> I notice that the frequent posters in both the Shigefusa and Kato thread are the same people.:groucho:



=D


----------



## Hianyiaw

looks like its gone


----------



## mikedtran

Hianyiaw said:


> looks like its gone



Under and hour it is then, Kato-fever is still going.


----------



## Hianyiaw

Was about to try purchasing it lol. Thought about checking my account and refreshed the page it was gone. Oh well at least it saved me some money lol.


----------



## mikedtran

Hianyiaw said:


> Was about to try purchasing it lol. Thought about checking my account and refreshed the page it was gone. Oh well at least it saved me some money lol.



If you want to let you know next time I find Katos, let me know and I'll PM you =)


----------



## Hianyiaw

Oh that would be awesome mike! Still on the hunt for a kato deba lol


----------



## Hianyiaw

210 gyuto on JNS


----------



## DamageInc

Already ordered one. There must be multiple.


----------



## YG420

Me too. I wana see how it stacks up against the 210 standard version.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I ordered and had my confirmation email within one min, still available too. It looks like there may have been multiple judging by the numerous black boxes on IG


----------



## DamageInc

It seems there is still on left. Good luck to whoever gets it.


----------



## Badgertooth

Someone buy it already before I do
Something irresponsible


----------



## ynot1985

it's the workhorse one right? i got confused as the photo looked like a standard one based on the handle


----------



## DamageInc

Yes, it's a workhorse. Gone now though.


----------



## jacko9

Yes it's gone - on it's way to my house. I got up at 5 AM this morning to go to the gym and checked my email! It took forever with my Paypal account messed up and with it my main credit card got frozen, it's a good thing I had a second credit card while it was still in my cart. I assume after getting a confirmation from JNS that I did indeed get the 210mm Kato Gyuto (my first).

Jack


----------



## mikedtran

jacko9 said:


> Yes it's gone - on it's way to my house. I got up at 5 AM this morning to go to the gym and checked my email! It took forever with my Paypal account messed up and with it my main credit card got frozen, it's a good thing I had a second credit card while it was still in my cart. I assume after getting a confirmation from JNS that I did indeed get the 210mm Kato Gyuto (my first).
> 
> Jack



Congrats Jack! I know you have been looking for one for a while!

Looks like KKF really came up on Workhorse Gyutos this time =)

I really want a 240mm Workhorse to compare to my 240 original Kato =)


----------



## YG420

jacko9 said:


> Yes it's gone - on it's way to my house. I got up at 5 AM this morning to go to the gym and checked my email! It took forever with my Paypal account messed up and with it my main credit card got frozen, it's a good thing I had a second credit card while it was still in my cart. I assume after getting a confirmation from JNS that I did indeed get the 210mm Kato Gyuto (my first).
> 
> Jack



Congrats Jack on finally being able to get one!


----------



## Asteger

mikedtran said:


> I really want a 240mm Workhorse to compare to my 240 original Kato =)



Surely you've already owned one by now? Thought you had.

(By the way, got your email by too busy to think it through as of yet.)


----------



## mikedtran

Asteger said:


> Surely you've already owned one by now? Thought you had.
> 
> (By the way, got your email by too busy to think it through as of yet.)



I had one but it was one from the first batch and had been used and thinned so wanted to see what the newer and fresh versions were like. =)


----------



## Badgertooth

mikedtran said:


> Congrats Jack! I know you have been looking for one for a while!
> 
> Looks like KKF really came up on Workhorse Gyutos this time =)
> 
> I really want a 240mm Workhorse to compare to my 240 original Kato =)



What do you think of your original Kato?


----------



## mikedtran

Badgertooth said:


> What do you think of your original Kato?



It is unbelievable. I'm definitely understanding what people mean when they say Katos feel magical.

A member kindly reached out to me to lend me a 240mm workhorse so I will be doing a comparison for sure =)


----------



## jacko9

Well I did want the Kato 240mm Gyuto but, I'll have to wait for that opportunity. Now, I'll get a chance to compare my Konosuke Fujiyama B2 side by side with my Kato (each being 210mm).

I went back and added the 170 Wa Butcher to my order also.

Jack


----------



## Asteger

mikedtran said:


> It is unbelievable. I'm definitely understanding what people mean when they say Katos feel magical. A member kindly reached out to me to lend me a 240mm workhorse so I will be doing a comparison for sure =)



I have an original too, my only one, but have had 4 or 5 Workhorses. I'm agreeing with Mike and prefer the original. Max must've 'westernised' Kato's design a bit when he went through his 2 prototypes, basically getting Kato to make the gyuto a bit more conventional looking, rather than with a low tip like the originals (which is probably good PR as his KKF-style buyers seem to be santoku-phobic), and adding more belly and also using the 'mystery' steel. Of course KKF-types were introduced to Katos when JNS started to sell them a few years back, and so maybe Workhorses have enjoyed some prestige as a result as other normal Katos started to appear, and people seem suckers for going for 'customs' over normal knives, but it doesn't mean that customs are always an upgrade. Even with Max's talents, when it comes down to it it seems reasonable that if you have the choice between something done by Kato as he alone wants versus Kato but with some tinkering suggested by a foreign fellow, probably motivated mostly by marketing and sales concerns, then considering the quality of Kato you'd probably want to stick with the original. Kato has to know what he's doing. Yeah, my original is a small one, 195mm or so and formerly belonging to the Dispossessed. The handle was a bit small and I've put a sakura-wood one on. Prob my current fav knife, which formerly probably had been a 180 Workhorse.


----------



## Sharpchef

I own two Kato`s a 240 "original" and a 270 Workhorse, and all i can say is edge retention on the original is much better, the profile of the Workhorse is a litlle bit better to work with and the geometry cutting ability is better also, for my likes.
Edge retention issue can also depend on the much heavier workhorse....

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## inzite

Asteger said:


> I have an original too, my only one, but have had 4 or 5 Workhorses. I'm agreeing with Mike and prefer the original. Max must've 'westernised' Kato's design a bit when he went through his 2 prototypes, basically getting Kato to make the gyuto a bit more conventional looking, rather than with a low tip like the originals (which is probably good PR as his KKF-style buyers seem to be santoku-phobic), and adding more belly and also using the 'mystery' steel. Of course KKF-types were introduced to Katos when JNS started to sell them a few years back, and so maybe Workhorses have enjoyed some prestige as a result as other normal Katos started to appear, and people seem suckers for going for 'customs' over normal knives, but it doesn't mean that customs are always an upgrade. Even with Max's talents, when it comes down to it it seems reasonable that if you have the choice between something done by Kato as he alone wants versus Kato but with some tinkering suggested by a foreign fellow, probably motivated mostly by marketing and sales concerns, then considering the quality of Kato you'd probably want to stick with the original. Kato has to know what he's doing. Yeah, my original is a small one, 195mm or so and formerly belonging to the Dispossessed. The handle was a bit small and I've put a sakura-wood one on. Prob my current fav knife, which formerly probably had been a 180 Workhorse.



my thoughts precisely. was never a fan of "mystery steel" and i love the profile of the kato original based on my cutting habbits.


----------



## LucasFur

Apologies but I must comment: - I honestly feel that what ever knife you use the most, you simply get use to, then grow to like it the most. So when people say its their favorite knife, I have grown to be skeptical. Hence so often old chefs would rather use their same old knife then buy a new "better" knife often if their knife is a masamoto or Tojiro etc. 
Not being contentious, nor claiming the proverbial over-hyped remark but these blades sell out in minutes, and are also often (re)-sold in the BST section. What gives? Is this not the definition of a hyped blade, with mystery steel to boot. Compounded by how it is that ONLY kato has this specific amazing grind? If it is, from my understanding, the grind people lust over. 
Never owned a Kato though, admittedly workhorses don't generally interest me much. 
But this holy grind topic has intrigued me, of course until it needs to be thinned when it becomes, I presume valueless? akin to putting 50,000 kilometers on a Ferrari? 
I have read all I can about Kato's so i would love to hear others thoughts.


----------



## YG420

I side with asteger as well. The workhorse is a great knofe, but I find myself reaching for my 210 std more often and like the nice flat spot on it. You cant lose with either one though.


----------



## YG420

And just to clarify, I LOVE my katos, but just find the std suits me a lil better. Still wont prevent me from buying the workhorse versions though since it is also a great knife.


----------



## Timthebeaver

I thought my Kato 180mm nakiri was pretty unremarkable. You can shoot me now.


----------



## jacko9

mikedtran said:


> Congrats Jack! I know you have been looking for one for a while!
> 
> Looks like KKF really came up on Workhorse Gyutos this time =)
> 
> I really want a 240mm Workhorse to compare to my 240 original Kato =)



Mike you mentioned that you had some Kato's on order. Perhaps when you get them we can get together and compare them to the workhorse.

Jack


----------



## mikedtran

jacko9 said:


> Mike you mentioned that you had some Kato's on order. Perhaps when you get them we can get together and compare them to the workhorse.
> 
> Jack



Definitely jack they should be in around September/October. 

A member also has graciously offered to lend me his 240 workhorse so I should have a comparison of the two quite soon. =)


----------



## jacko9

mikedtran said:


> Definitely jack they should be in around September/October.
> 
> A member also has graciously offered to lend me his 240 workhorse so I should have a comparison of the two quite soon. =)



Michael, Remember that I mentioned to you that I am interested in one of those Kato's you getting this fall. ;-)

Jack


----------



## mikedtran

jacko9 said:


> Michael, Remember that I mentioned to you that I am interested in one of those Kato's you getting this fall. ;-)
> 
> Jack



I got you on that list Jack =)

Though if I love the ones I get in September as much as the 240mm I have right now, you might not even be able to pry it from my bare dead hands hahah


----------



## preizzo

Work horse kato are amazing knives. 
No bull **** about grind tipe, edge retention, etc.....I am working in a pro kitchen and the behavior fantastically &#128521;.you can like as not but they will be always a great knives. 
You can't compare them to others, you just can't!


----------



## mikedtran

preizzo said:


> Work horse kato are amazing knives.
> No bull **** about grind tipe, edge retention, etc.....I am working in a pro kitchen and the behavior fantastically &#128521;.you can like as not but they will be always a great knives.
> You can't compare them to others, you just can't!



I'm definitely curious to see how it is, I imagine it is going to be very unique!


----------



## Asteger

Timthebeaver said:


> I thought my Kato 180mm nakiri was pretty unremarkable. You can shoot me now.



Maybe the nakiri design doesn't allow K-san scope to shine? I've heard the same reaction from a former huge collector upon getting his first Kato, a nakiri.


----------



## TheDispossessed

I like Kato, a lot, but a nakiri is the last knife type I'd buy on the thick side. Let's face it, a nakiri is never gonna be a chuka anyways, it's a sad little compromise IMO. if I'm gonna use a knife without a tip I prefer it be as close to the size of a license plate as possible.


----------



## Godslayer

TheDispossessed said:


> I like Kato, a lot, but a nakiri is the last knife type I'd buy on the thick side. Let's face it, a nakiri is never gonna be a chuka anyways, it's a sad little compromise IMO. if I'm gonna use a knife without a tip I prefer it be as close to the size of a license plate as possible.



Chuka for life


----------



## DamageInc

I like my Kato nakiri very much. I don't have issues with the thickness even on onion dicing. Different something for something something.... 

[video=youtube;eOv4GXn0fHc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOv4GXn0fHc[/video]


----------



## mikedtran

DamageInc said:


> I like my Kato nakiri very much. I don't have issues with the thickness even on onion dicing. Different something for something something....



Out of curiosity is yours a workhorse or a original? Guessing a workhorse?


----------



## DamageInc

Yes, it's a workhorse.


----------



## mikedtran

DamageInc said:


> Yes, it's a workhorse.



Looks like a keeper =)


----------



## aboynamedsuita

DamageInc said:


> I like my Kato nakiri very much. I don't have issues with the thickness even on onion dicing. Different something for something something....
> 
> [video=youtube;eOv4GXn0fHc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOv4GXn0fHc[/video]



I now have the same nakiri and am retiring my Shig KU because I like the Kato so much. 

I only got some hesitation going horizontally through onions (similar cutting at about 7:00 in video) but the ones I was doing are about 12cm diameter once peeled so I am not surprised.


----------



## ynot1985

This has me worried, I have a normal Nakiri on order.. May end up to be a dud


----------



## mikedtran

ynot1985 said:


> This has me worried, I have a normal Nakiri on order.. May end up to be a dud



Doubt it will be, my normal/original gyuto is unreal.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Like your pic Mike :thumbsup:

@ynot, I'll send you an email with my initial thoughts about the Kato nakiri


----------



## ecchef

ynot1985 said:


> This has me worried, I have a normal Nakiri on order.. May end up to be a dud



I don't know...maybe it's me. I watched the last video and in all honesty can get the exact same results with my wife's 20 year old stainless Kiya santoku. 
The knife itself wont improve your skills, practice will. Do I own a Kato? No. Would I like to try one? Sure! But not because I think it has magical properties.


----------



## DamageInc

No knives have magical properties. I can do everything I did in the video with a moderately sharp four star Henckels.

To me, using the types of knives talked about here on the forum is about user satisfaction, not getting a job done. I can get a prep job done with most knives out there, but I get a special enjoyment out of my Katos. I just posted the video to show that onion dicing was not an issue, not to show off some magical results only achievable with a Kato workhorse nakiri.


----------



## ecchef

Sorry, Damage; no offense meant...I wasn't trying to critique your knife skills. 
Because I don't own a Kato and have never used one, I'm trying to understand what the mystique is.


----------



## Mute-on

I think it's one of those things that you have to try for yourself. What feels unique, comfortable and purposeful in my hand on my cutting board might feel like [email protected] to you. Different sensibilities, preferences, expectations, prior experiences, and all that come into play.

I will say that my Katos feel very unique in my hand. I think it's the thickness and the contour of the bevels moving up through the blade to the spine. They are a fairly unique grind. 

I haven't tried a Kato Nakiri yet, so I don't know if this has the same feel as the gyutos. 

Like anything preference related YMMV, but I urge you to try a Kato gyuto if you can.

Cheers

J


----------



## ecchef

Maybe one day. Watch has to go in for service, so there goes a good chunk of this quarter's fun money.


----------



## DamageInc

I know how that feels....


----------



## mikedtran

Decided against making a seperate thread. Wanted to first thank YG420 for lending me his Workhorse to do a quick comparison. 

*Original *- shorter in length and height, lighter, flatter, thinner at the edge
*Workhorse* - longer and taller, heavier, larger handle, lots of belly, thicker at the edge

*Original Kato*
Spine at handle: 5.2mm
Spine over heel: 4.8mm
Spine midblade: 2.0mm
Spine near tip: 0.7mm

Edge Length: 235mm
Height: 51mm
Weight: 223g

*JNS Kato*
Spine at handle: 6.2mm (+1mm)
Spine over heel: 5.7mm (+.9mm
Spine midblade: 2.3mm (+.3mm)
Spine near tip: 0.8mm (+.1mm)

Edge Length: 247mm (+12mm)
Height: 53mm (+2mm)
Weight: 269g (+46g)


----------



## krx927

Mike, Thanks for comparison!


----------



## labor of love

mikedtran said:


> Decided against making a seperate thread. Wanted to first thank YG420 for lending me his Workhorse to do a quick comparison.
> 
> *Original *- shorter in length and height, lighter, flatter, thinner at the edge
> *Workhorse* - longer and taller, heavier, larger handle, lots of belly, thicker at the edge
> 
> *Original Kato*
> Spine at handle: 5.2mm
> Spine over heel: 4.8mm
> Spine midblade: 2.0mm
> Spine near tip: 0.7mm
> 
> Edge Length: 235mm
> Height: 51mm
> Weight: 223g
> 
> *JNS Kato*
> Spine at handle: 6.2mm (+1mm)
> Spine over heel: 5.7mm (+.9mm
> Spine midblade: 2.3mm (+.3mm)
> Spine near tip: 0.8mm (+.1mm)
> 
> Edge Length: 247mm (+12mm)
> Height: 53mm (+2mm)
> Weight: 269g (+46g)



I passed on a really good deal for non workhorse kato Gyuto. Definitely regret it. Which one do you reach for more?


----------



## aboynamedsuita

krx927 said:


> Mike, Thanks for comparison!



+1


----------



## mikedtran

labor of love said:


> I passed on a really good deal for non workhorse kato Gyuto. Definitely regret it. Which one do you reach for more?



I personally enjoy the standard gyuto more. =)


----------



## jacko9

mikedtran said:


> I personally enjoy the standard gyuto more. =)



I just received my Kato Workhorse and I intend to buy a standard Kato when one becomes available and it will be interesting to compare them against each other.

Jack


----------



## Badgertooth

I will be placed to do a workhorse v std comp tonight. Though not like-for-like as its a 240 workhorse and a 210 std. The workhorse is also modified in that Greg of wabocho thinned it and will have changed the weight with a custom handle. 

Thoughts to follow.


----------



## jacko9

I'll be doing the opposite my Workhorse is a 210 and when I get my Standard it will be a 240std. I'm looking forward to your observations Badger.


----------



## Badgertooth

Nothing quite as empirical as Mike has done and much more anecdotal but these are very different knives. Different profile and feels almost dainty compared to a rehandled workhorse. I had worried that it wouldn't cut with quite as much authority but it really does move through food in a manner that might be tricky to explain to anyone outside of this thread.

And I think I might tentatively cast my ballot for the original... It's really special.

I am jonesing to try a 270mm


----------



## Badgertooth

Also, there was a little unexpected razzle dazzle on the ferrule.


----------



## ynot1985

Is that the reverse of mike's ferrule .. Black with splashes of white or is that scratches.. Sorry, can't really make it out


----------



## Hianyiaw

Looks like blond streaks to me


----------



## Badgertooth

Blonde streaks


----------



## Sharpchef

So what you guys thing about edge retention comparison of Workhorse and Standart Kato?

My Standart Kato Gyuto 240 (seems to be Shiro 2) has an obvious much better edge retention them my 270 Workhorse ("mystery steel"). May got something to do with higher impact due to the heavier blade, but i am much more happy with my standart one, it just feels like a nice little Petty in my hands....... (used too work with 290mm+ gyutos).

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## mikedtran

Quick trace of Workhorse vs. Standard. Apologies for not having multiple colors of pen/pencil. 

Emotos are the same height.


----------



## Badgertooth

Bang on Mikey. That's one of my main observations. Standard is also finer tipped and thinner behind the edge.


----------



## Asteger

Sharpchef said:


> So what you guys thing about edge retention comparison of Workhorse and Standart Kato?
> 
> My Standart Kato Gyuto 240 (seems to be Shiro 2) has an obvious much better edge retention them my 270 Workhorse ("mystery steel"). May got something to do with higher impact due to the heavier blade, but i am much more happy with my standart one, it just feels like a nice little Petty in my hands



I've been thinking differently, that my normal Kato doesn't hold the edge as long as the workhorses, but it's also a bit less chippy.


----------



## MAS4T0

Thanks for the pic Mike!

I'd never noticed before, but the workhorse profile is essentially the same as my Mizuno (which is my absolute favourite profile).

If only Maxim would or could take a custom order for a left-handed version...


----------



## mikedtran

Badgertooth said:


> Bang on Mikey. That's one of my main observations. Standard is also finer tipped and thinner behind the edge.



+1

The workhorse has a flat spot that is maybe 1/3rd of the blade while the original has over half the blade.


----------



## mikedtran

MAS4T0 said:


> Thanks for the pic Mike!
> 
> I'd never noticed before, but the workhorse profile is essentially the same as my Mizuno (which is my absolute favourite profile).
> 
> If only Maxim would or could take a custom order for a left-handed version...



I haven't looked too closely but I don't think mine is that asymmetric, though not being a lefty I'm unsure how much it matters. Sounds like your mizuno is perfect for a lefty though!


----------



## Mucho Bocho

mikedtran said:


> +1
> 
> The workhorse has a flat spot that is maybe 1/3rd of the blade while the original has over half the blade.



Mike, This may be true but that doesn't mean it isn't equally adept at push cutting. I used to think super flat was most desirable, but over time and with different knives, 've learned to appreciate a gentle belly more and more. Still needs to be a flat knife overall though.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I'll do a trace of the 210 workhorse and 210 Damascus, hopefully tomorrow. Once mikedtran sells me his 210 standard I'll add that one as well :whistling:


----------



## Smurfmacaw

I'll look at mine. the damascus is thinner but I haven't really looked at the flat spot. The damascus is thinner and is a noticeably better cutter than the workhorse or standard though...


----------



## Badgertooth

What the actual f?


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Interesting I'm quite certain my Damascus is thicker than the workhorse. Hopefully my callipers show up too


----------



## jacko9

I got my 210 workhorse a few days ago and it is a great cutter. I haven't had time to put it through it paces yet since we have had a very light menu after the holidays. It does seem to tarnish (or patina) very easily and I was wondering what you guys do with the finish? Let it patina or use bar keepers friend (or something else)?


----------



## preizzo

I leave mine with patina &#128522;


----------



## jacko9

preizzo said:


> I leave mine with patina &#128522;




Did you force the patina? Like cutting certain product like onions or protein?


----------



## preizzo

Warm Proteins are better!
Chicken, beef, Lamb work really good


----------



## jacko9

preizzo said:


> Warm Proteins are better!
> Chicken, beef, Lamb work really good



Thanks I'll give it try - one thing I already know is that this Kato is going to be my go to knife. I may also get a 240mm Kato Gyuto as well in the future and might have to think about selling my T-F and Konosuke HD2 Gyuto's sometime.


----------



## Mucho Bocho

Jack, Grab some Flitz metal polish as it will both remove the patina and leave a protective residue that will prevent corrosion until you use at again. BKF will move patina, but then when you wash it with water, you start the oxidation process all over. Yes can neutralize BKF with baking soda, but it will be super reactive next time you use it. Give the metal a sniff. If its reactive, it will have a strong smell, as patina grown, the smell will decrease, but still be present. 

I just cleaned and polished my while kit including two Kato W. that has patina, and they came out as new. One important thing to remember is to polish the blade with the grind marks. If their perpendicular to the spine, you'll have to wipe across the blade in short strokes. From spine to edge, spine edge, spine to edge... Wipe to the point that you can't see any streaks of Flitz, then switch to another clean cotton lint free (non-paper) towel to polish the blade. At this point its ok to wipe from handle to tip too. 




jacko9 said:


> I got my 210 workhorse a few days ago and it is a great cutter. I haven't had time to put it through it paces yet since we have had a very light menu after the holidays. It does seem to tarnish (or patina) very easily and I was wondering what you guys do with the finish? Let it patina or use bar keepers friend (or something else)?


----------



## jacko9

Mucho Bocho said:


> Jack, Grab some Flitz metal polish as it will both remove the patina and leave a protective residue that will prevent corrosion until you use at again. BKF will move patina, but then when you wash it with water, you start the oxidation process all over. Yes can neutralize BKF with baking soda, but it will be super reactive next time you use it. Give the metal a sniff. If its reactive, it will have a strong smell, as patina grown, the smell will decrease, but still be present.
> 
> I just cleaned and polished my while kit including two Kato W. that has patina, and they came out as new. One important thing to remember is to polish the blade with the grind marks. If their perpendicular to the spine, you'll have to wipe across the blade in short strokes. From spine to edge, spine edge, spine to edge... Wipe to the point that you can't see any streaks of Flitz, then switch to another clean cotton lint free (non-paper) towel to polish the blade. At this point its ok to wipe from handle to tip too.



Thanks - I'll get some Flitz and I can see what you mean about the grind marks of the finish. The Kato seems to be more reactive than any other of my carbon knives and I would like to see it become a stable patina over time.

Jack


----------



## mikedtran

Flitz definitely will remove patina, polish, and leave a protective layer/residue. Though I wonder is that residue food safe? Flitz has a pretty strong chemical small to me.


----------



## XooMG

mikedtran said:


> Flitz definitely will remove patina, polish, and leave a protective layer/residue. Though I wonder is that residue food safe? Flitz has a pretty strong chemical small to me.





> *You mention countertops, appliances, and serving pieces; Is Flitz safe to use on surfaces in contact with food?*
> Yes, Flitz Polish is completely non-toxic. It has USDA approval to use on surfaces in a food preparation area. Flitz can be safely used on serving pieces, such as silverware, without any danger. After polishing, just wash the piece in warm soapy water and dry off as usual. The Flitz will not leave any flavor or smell behind.


Looks like the polish is food safe. There are probably some solvents in there that evaporate away, but I don't know for sure. The soapy water suggests the film left behind is an oil.


----------



## TheDispossessed

Flitz sketches me out on eating tools. The stuff reeks


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I always wipe with acetone then wash with soapy water after using.


----------



## jacko9

It turns out that I had a container of Flitz in my shop and yes - It stinks but it does clean the blades very nicely. I had to be careful to remember to go with the grind marks on my Kato Workhorse.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Smurfmacaw said:


> I'll look at mine. the damascus is thinner but I haven't really looked at the flat spot. The damascus is thinner and is a noticeably better cutter than the workhorse or standard though...





tjangula said:


> Interesting I'm quite certain my Damascus is thicker than the workhorse. Hopefully my callipers show up too



Here's my 210 JNS Damascus gyuto and 210 JNS workhorse gyuto:





I also took some calliper measurements on the spine (where the Xs are). I don't normally go to two decimal places or round to the nearest 0.05mm, as such there was a time when it was gong all over the place still gives a decent idea though.

I hereby vote that mikedtran sells me his 210 standard Kasumi gyuto to add a third to the the pic lol ;-)


----------



## DamageInc

240 Kato up with ebony handle at JNS.


----------



## USC 2012

Gone as of 12:38


----------



## jklip13

for $850 none the less!


----------



## Badgertooth

Take into account that prices across the board are going up; Kato san is nursing a back injury and is dialling down production and he has no apprentice. This might be the new normal.


----------



## YG420

Im guessin the price increase is for the ebony handle?


----------



## mikedtran

YG420 said:


> Im guessin the price increase is for the ebony handle?



Would guess the same, I find ebony handles usually cost $75-$100 more at least?


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I got one in less than a minute, and I was on my mobile internet irate1:

I did notice the price increase by 500DKK earlier today before the link became active, if the handle is the same Ebony as the kikuryu I had it is really nice!

I also looked back to when I made it thru checkout with a 240 workhorse in September 2015 but the software oversold the knives. There was an additional 500DKK (1000DKK total, or about $200CAD) increase since then; I wish my financial investments were doing as well lol.


----------



## orange

It looks like I have spent too much time on a new hobby and fell behind what's going on in jknives world.
What's up with all the frenzy for kato's and shig's? Someone please fill me in.


----------



## LucasFur

So i bought a KATO workhorse -- time to see what this is all about.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

LucasFur said:


> So i bought a KATO workhorse -- time to see what this is all about.



Good score, nice to see another Kato inbound to Canada


----------



## TheDispossessed

I just received a 240 Kato (stock) after a 6 month wait. It's probably too big for me so if anyone's interested shoot me a PM. I was gonna get to the BST listing a little later, pretty busy right now.
Cheers
Matteo


----------



## YG420

Pm sent


----------



## LucasFur

there goes a sold KATO -- even off the BST section. Im getting pretty excited about mine coming in now. 

one of KKF's highest regarded knives will compete against 
zkramer 52100 - one of america test kitchen highest regarded 
konosuke honyaki - one of Sakai's highest regarded
Teruyasu Denka - one of Knifewear's highest regarded 
takamura uchigumo - one of my highest regarded. 

what a matchup that will occur in my kitchen over the coming weeks. :bliss:


----------



## Iggy

LucasFur said:


> there goes a sold KATO -- even off the BST section. Im getting pretty excited about mine coming in now.
> 
> one of KKF's highest regarded knives will compete against
> zkramer 52100 - one of america test kitchen highest regarded
> konosuke honyaki - one of Sakai's highest regarded
> Teruyasu Denka - one of Knifewear's highest regarded
> takamura uchigumo - one of my highest regarded.
> 
> what a matchup that will occur in my kitchen over the coming weeks. :bliss:




Looking forward to that... at least from my point of view I can compare Kato 240 WH, zkramer 52100 10 Inch and TF Denka (amongst other knives) I think in short.

edge retention: Denka - zkramer and Kato quite similar IMHO
Profile: Kato - Denka - zkramer
sharpability: Kato - denka - zkramer
food release: Kato = denka - zkramer
best cutter: denka - Kato - zkramer
F&F: zkramer - kato - denka

Of course that's totally subjective, so I'm excited to see whiat you think :2cents:


----------



## LucasFur

I will let you know Iggy. I really want to do a full gyuto review ... but I'll probably need a week to do it though


----------



## preizzo

I had the zkramer for just few months so I can't really compare with others two. 
Also I have the moboroshi serie bot the denka 
Any way 
Profile :tf- kato -zk
Sharpbility :tf-kato -zk
Food realise :Kato -tf -zk
Best cutter :Kato -tf-zk 
F&f:zk -kato -tf
All of them are amazing knives only thing I don't believe the zk worth that money.!! &#128516;


----------



## mikedtran

From Tosho on Kato Damascus:

"Kato San will no longer be making his knives with this finish - so if you've been waiting, now is the time! Stock is limited."

Also the petty is $1300 CAD or $983 USD...

I have heard this also from my Kato source, that getting Damascus won't be an option any longer.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Damn, my 210 dammy gyuto was a bargain


----------



## Badgertooth

Suddenly an unhandled Kato Damascus gyuto from they-who-cannot-be-named less than a year ago seems like bargain of the century.


----------



## karif

Are you guys talking the vg10 Damascus? Was just checking one out wondering why it was so cheap, and if it was anywhere near the quality of his fujiwara knives.


----------



## XooMG

karif said:


> Are you guys talking the vg10 Damascus? Was just checking one out wondering why it was so cheap, and if it was anywhere near the quality of his fujiwara knives.


Different Kato.


----------



## Sharpchef

This is no more you get what you pay for, this is just laughable....... Gyus don`T be stupid and buy any more of his knives...... I own two of them and only the original was ok for the money, the workhorse is just a waste of money. And it was at about 400 (240mm) and 650 (270mm Workhorse). Don`T want to know what the next workhorse batch with 270mm will cost....

Nothing special about them, maybe the grind, but this is also doable for a skilled craftsmen in USA or Europe, for maybe 2/3 of that prices in better monosteel.

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## alterwisser

Sharpchef said:


> This is no more you get what you pay for, this is just laughable....... Gyus don`T be stupid and buy any more of his knives...... I own two of them and only the original was ok for the money, the workhorse is just a waste of money. And it was at about 400 (240mm) and 650 (270mm Workhorse). Don`T want to know what the next workhorse batch with 270mm will cost....
> 
> Nothing special about them, maybe the grind, but this is also doable for a skilled craftsmen in USA or Europe, for maybe 2/3 of that prices in better monosteel.
> 
> Greets Sebastian.



You're making enemies here rather quickly LOL ... what's next? Are you telling Australians that Shigs are no good pieces of overpriced junk? 

Just kidding [emoji12][emoji23]


----------



## chinacats

Sharpchef said:


> Nothing special about them, maybe the grind, but this is also doable for a skilled craftsmen in USA or Europe, for maybe 2/3 of that prices in better monosteel.


Dude, you make no sense...nothing special but the grind? This (almost more importantly than even H/T) is what makes me buy a maker's knives. Not a huge fan of Kato for myself but that argument makes no sense at all.:razz:

As to a skilled craftsman in US or Euro doing the same, who?


----------



## mikedtran

Sharpchef said:


> This is no more you get what you pay for, this is just laughable....... Gyus don`T be stupid and buy any more of his knives...... I own two of them and only the original was ok for the money, the workhorse is just a waste of money. And it was at about 400 (240mm) and 650 (270mm Workhorse). Don`T want to know what the next workhorse batch with 270mm will cost....
> 
> Nothing special about them, maybe the grind, but this is also doable for a skilled craftsmen in USA or Europe, for maybe 2/3 of that prices in better monosteel.
> 
> Greets Sebastian.



I'd buy the standard Kato off of you if you don't like it =)


----------



## mikedtran

chinacats said:


> Dude, you make no sense...nothing special but the grind? This (almost more importantly than even H/T) is what makes me buy a maker's knives. Not a huge fan of Kato for myself but that argument makes no sense at all.:razz:
> 
> As to a skilled craftsman in US or Euro doing the same, who?



On the note about the Kato, I really really like the grind (my favorite so far) - I do prefer Shigefusa steel and heat treatment for overall edge retention and feel on stones though.


----------



## jacko9

mikedtran said:


> On the note about the Kato, I really really like the grind (my favorite so far) - I do prefer Shigefusa steel and heat treatment for overall edge retention and feel on stones though.



Mike, I don't have a Shigefusa yet but I like my Kato Workhorse for food separation while cutting potatoes, onions, etc. Can you give us a comparison between the Kato and Shig? I agree that the Kato reactivity is as bad or worse than any carbon knife I have but, I don't mind a patina.

Jack


----------



## mikedtran

Jack, I personally like my standard Kato the best and it is a toss up between Kato Workhorse and Shigefusa after that for different reasons. In many ways the Workhorse and Shigefusa are different but close to equals where as I feel the Kato shines in the cutting feel/grind department. This is just a quick summary, let me know if there are other aspects that you would like me to compare. *I have tried 4 Katos, 3 Workhorses, and 4 Shigefusa gyutos.

*Cutting Feel* - Kato > Kato Workhorse/Shigefusa
Kato glides through almost everything like butter. The Workhorse and Shigefusa have a bit more wedge through tall hard products such as carrots. Different specimens of Shigefusas and Workhorse have had varying degrees and I can't say for certain which is better.

*Food Release* - Shigefusa > Kato > Kato Workhorse
I have had specimens of Workhorses that had poor food release though take this with a grain as salt as it had been thinned. My personal take is good specimens of all these knives have amazing food release and would never leave anyone wanting for more.

*Reactivity* - Shigefusa (most reactive) > Kato/Kato Workhorse 
Shigefusa was by far the most reactive for me though having owned all of these now I have learned to take better care of my blades and have not had any issues including with onions once a light patina sets in.

*Edge Retention* - Shigefusa > Kato
I have not had a chance to fully test Workhorse edge retention, but I can say my Shigefusa holds a similar edge for much longer than my Kato which should come as no surprise as Shirogami is not known for its amazing edge retention. I am testing with different levels of microbeveling on both to find the right balance. My guess is that Workhorse retention would be comparable to the Shigefusa.

*Sharpenability* - Shigefusa > Kato > Kato Workhorse
The Shigefusa definitely is one of the best feeling steels on stones. The Kato feels good as does most Shirogami and the Workhorse feels ok, my suspicion is the Workhorse is made from Aogami but I could be completely off base there (reason I think this is that Tosho stocks Aogami yanagibas from Kato-san)



jacko9 said:


> Mike, I don't have a Shigefusa yet but I like my Kato Workhorse for food separation while cutting potatoes, onions, etc. Can you give us a comparison between the Kato and Shig? I agree that the Kato reactivity is as bad or worse than any carbon knife I have but, I don't mind a patina.
> 
> Jack


----------



## Sharpchef

mikedtran said:


> I'd buy the standard Kato off of you if you don't like it =)



For this i will wait until the prices get up too 2000 Dollars, then we can talk again ......

About the Grind of at least the original standart Katos (Shiro 2) are superb, no questions here! I love mine, for homecooking. In pro business the lacking edge retention sucks...., just a matter of steel, and the bad iron san mai construction is not my favor in pro business, while i nearly use carbon steel knives exclusively. And to be said once more, for shirogami 2 steel the edge retention of original Kato is way the best i always had in hand. But 52100 is way better in EVERY! task in the kitchen, especially as a monosteel, with nearly no reaction after patination has done the protection.....

Blacksmiths/Knifemakers who can do a similar grind? ME, and i am a hobbyist, making 2-5 knives a year, this is really no problem. So every skilled Blacksmith/knifemaker can do this with ease if you give him/her a Kato, they can copy that grind, for sure.

Here are some pics of my attempts, and they finally were much better. (note, i don`t sell selfmade knives, i just gift them to friends, i got no time for knifemaking, this is just a hobby).


















Greets Sebastian.


----------



## mikedtran

I would agree the edge retention is not great, if a maker could mimic the Kato grind I would love one in either higher edge retention carbon or a PM stainless. 

If any maker is up for it shoot me a PM. I told myself no more knives, but would make an exception for this =)


----------



## alterwisser

mikedtran said:


> I told myself no more knives...



What's wrong with you????? [emoji23][emoji12]


----------



## LucasFur

I'm starting to believe we are at the point where the top knives are so close its hard to actually see what you like more. 
to most people the prices these knives carry are on par with a Ferrari and a Lamborghini. How do you decide which is the better car, how do you decide which is the better knife? --- for me the knife you like the most is the knife you use the most, you get use to its properties and it becomes a extension of you. 

ABOVE ALL ELSE People with a lot of knives are selling off a good amount of their collection and buying more of these 2 (amongst other) brands, something is going on.


----------



## LucasFur

Matter of fact, KATO AND SHIG's are the Audemars and Patek of the knife world. I see almost these exact discussions on the watch forms. -- So they are in high demand and will probably only go up. :cheffry:


----------



## Sharpchef

LucasFur said:


> Matter of fact, KATO AND SHIG's are the Audemars and Patek of the knife world. I see almost these exact discussions on the watch forms. -- So they are in high demand and will probably only go up. :cheffry:



Yes indeed.... With all the price increases in the last few years its a good investment, for sure....

I once held a original Kramer damascus in my hands, and could not believe the price it was sold for. I had to sharpen it, tested it a while and don`t saw any little think that a expierenced blacksmith like your damascus heros like HHH etc. could not do. A Hype is a hype, and nothing more. Grinds and heattreatment with the right steel is the only thing that counts, not the maker. If i had the opportunity to get a perfectly forged and heattreated blank (out of F2 Toolsteel)to Kato for its final grind, i would probably pay the full price of a Kato knife, just for the fun.

@mikedtran: you may ask Jürgen Schanz, if he can do a grind like katos have on a Knife with your favorite steel with matching dimension (would be the main problem for sure), or any other maker, here on this forum. I bet they can do it, if they like i don`T know.

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## Mucho Bocho

LucasFur said:


> I'm starting to believe we are at the point where the top knives are so close its hard to actually see what you like more.
> to most people the prices these knives carry are on par with a Ferrari and a Lamborghini. How do you decide which is the better car, how do you decide which is the better knife? --- for me the knife you like the most is the knife you use the most, you get use to its properties and it becomes a extension of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucas, Insightful comments and whole heartedly concur!
> 
> Sebastian, your comments and opinions seem a sharp contrast to what 98.999% of the world thinks about Shig and Kato. You certainly must feel proud by not being duped by those plebeian overpriced knives. And that Maxim guy, T_R_O_U_B_L_E. Every time I send him money, he sends me one of the finest cutting knives I've ever held. I think your right too that he's robbing us, especially when his prices increase significantly less than demand would allow. He's such a shyster, that I heard this week someone received a free nagura with their order. Bad business man for sure.
> 
> You made a knife, maybe two. Of course they cut better than 98.999% of the best knives in the world. Would you be open to passaround? Ah, not a good idea, I think most of the guys on this forum (myself included) really wouldn't be qualified to test it.
> 
> Thanks for providing us with some smiles today. I'm now going to go through my 210/240 WH Kato's in trash.
> 
> Hey Sebastian, Greets.
Click to expand...


----------



## DamageInc

LucasFur said:


> Matter of fact, KATO AND SHIG's are the Audemars and Patek of the knife world. I see almost these exact discussions on the watch forms. -- So they are in high demand and will probably only go up. :cheffry:



Too bad both Patek and Audemars are circling the drain in regards to quality of design and exclusivity. Smaller watch companies like Urban Jürgensen are miles ahead when it comes to handcraft and attention to detail.

Greets sebastian


----------



## LucasFur

Lets not get side tracked here sebastian
miles ahead potentially - but they dont hold their value quite the same way as these katos and shigs we are talking about :threadjacked:
you and i can argue about watches all day (and night (and day (and night))) on anther forum.


----------



## Sharpchef

@MuchoBucho: Don`t throw them away, sale them, there are many people that would instantly buy them.!

I don`t want to fool you or other people around, and yes why not do a passaround. The only thing i like to be done is testing for edge retention and no fit and finish discussion, because i am much too lazy for such things. And it had to be tested in pro environment, at least one of you has to be a pro. I did this on german forums as well, with same statements, not proud of myself etc. Just the truth about knives and hypes. So PM me, in about 3 weeks i am back from holliday and we can talk about it.
I can send you other knives as well that are simply better. My Gyuto was tested very much in the last months and sharpened with different approaches, but still it was better then any Japanese one. The Grind was taken down, but ok, this one would be (the one in the pictures above) the right one for testing.

Btw. what the world think about kato and Shigefusa is simply a hype. And have i mentioned that i think that Kato and maybe Shigefusa too are the best J Knives i ever testet? And i don`t want to offence your thoughts about knives, this is my point of view, and nothing else.

Also i have not ever talked about commercial issues with maxim, he is a nice guy , and i had all the times fun making business with him! so no bad notes about JNS please!

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I'm quite certain Mucho Bucho was being sarcastic in his last comment about JNS and throwing out the katos. I've had only good dealings with Maksim and JNS. 

I've been impressed with the edge retention on my recent 210 workhorse, surprised it still does peppers skin side up. I guess I'll see how the 240 compares. It's no R2 or ZDP189 but so far so good. 

Only thing I find with Kato is the reactivity, F&F was better than I would've thought based on reading comments prior to owning myself.


----------



## Iggy

Hi,

just a quick word about Sebastians Gyuto. Had the chance to test it a few month ago. Geometrywise I can't really compare, because he has extensivly modified it since then but the edge retention of the steel (I'm a home cook, but catered our companys christmas party as a one man show with the knife paired with a smaller Moritaka AS... steaks from hole strips with confit byaldi and starters for 40 people on horrible poly boards...) really impressed me. 

Ok... I work in material science so probably I'm not quite unprejudiced... but a precise heat treat of a really good developed steel will beat hand- and eye-feel every time regarding performance, no matter how much experience is involved. In this case the steel was 1.2562. So after testing the knife, I called my favourite local knifemaker up and he forged me a 28,5 cm Workhorse Gyuto out of this and I'm pretty pleased with it as my "real Workhorse knife" 

Being said... the Kato 240 Workhorse is still one of my favourite and most used knives!! ... why? I love the profile and I really like the grind. Edge Retention and robustness of the cutting edge is good enough for me as a home cook. What I really like about it how fast I can get it scary (HHT) sharp again. And I like them out of - let's say - "romantic reasons"... the idea of Kato San in his shed just appeals to me, as well as to many others I might think 

So... I bought a Kato Workhorse Nakiri a few weeks ago and I'm pretty happy with it as well 
(still prefer the Gyuto though...)
But if you talk steel performance, than I think you have to think of other european, american, japanese or australian makers (many of them active in this forum) instead...


----------



## LucasFur

finally got my kato 240 workhorse in. man it feels amazing in the hand. I see when people use it there is a fluidity that everybody has, and i feel like its the knife thats making us react like that. 
The wife actually mentioned my skills were really on point last night especially my expertly cut carrots :biggrin:, which i found so weird because she NEVER mentions anything. couple notes:
1. IT takes a patina so quickly, one juicy onion and the whole blade had the most patina out of my whole collection. I cant even believe it. 
2. Spine is thick, edge is thin. kinda best of both worlds. 
3. does not handle sweet potato well. carrots are about where you must stop with this thing. it was wedging on any sweet potato cut that was over 3 centimeters tall or so. 
that fat spine is so comfortable though, i see the appeal now ... I wanted to hate this knife bought it used for a quick resale and enough knowledge about why its not worth it, but i might have to keep it and search out another now. :viking: 
All in all,


----------



## aboynamedsuita

LucasFur said:


> finally got my kato 240 workhorse in. man it feels amazing in the hand. I see when people use it there is a fluidity that everybody has, and i feel like its the knife thats making us react like that.
> The wife actually mentioned my skills were really on point last night especially my expertly cut carrots :biggrin:, which i found so weird because she NEVER mentions anything. couple notes:
> 1. IT takes a patina so quickly, one juicy onion and the whole blade had the most patina out of my whole collection. I cant even believe it.
> 2. Spine is thick, edge is thin. kinda best of both worlds.
> 3. does not handle sweet potato well. carrots are about where you must stop with this thing. it was wedging on any sweet potato cut that was over 3 centimeters tall or so.
> that fat spine is so comfortable though, i see the appeal now ... I wanted to hate this knife bought it used for a quick resale and enough knowledge about why its not worth it, but i might have to keep it and search out another now. :viking:
> All in all,



Welcome to the Kato club. I used to dismiss Kato knives as I thought with me being a lefty, and the relative thickness, that they would not be suited for me. After getting my first (210 Damascus gyuto), I learned that this assumption was patently false.

I agree about reactivity, here is my 180 Kurouchi workhorse nakiri after one red onion






I have both the 210 and 240 workhorses I've only had the 240 for about a week, but the 210 seems a bit different almost reminds me of laser like performance but the weight and thickness I've come to appreciate


----------



## Mucho Bocho

Tanner, Yea DamageInc and I both concur about the 210 WH. It might be the PERFECT knife, if there ever was one. The 240 is monstrous comparably.


----------



## YG420

+1 on the 210 wh!


----------



## daveb

I like a 210, any 210, for the ladies...hehehe


----------



## Mucho Bocho

You wish you had a 210 [emoji38]


----------



## daveb

I'm talking knives here ya perve 

And at my age a Ko is all I need...


----------



## aboynamedsuita

On the topic of the 210 workhorse, I also picked up a std. 210 Kato from a forum member

Wait  that doesn't sound good standard 210 Kato


----------



## bennyprofane

How does the standard compare to the workhorse?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

240 standard......for me much better knife than WH. I am partial to flatter knives though. Great distal taper down to a super thin tip.


----------



## LucasFur

Instead of "much better than WH"
I think you meant to say "potentially minutely better than WH, given your preference."
They are both still Kato's were talking about here.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

LucasFur said:


> Instead of "much better than WH"
> I think you meant to say "potentially minutely better than WH, given your preference."
> They are both still Kato's were talking about here.



I meant to say what I said. My personal experience between the two is that I did not care much for the workhorse. Your opinion may differ. Some folks like the workhorse, some like the standard and some don't like katos at all. Different strokes.....


----------



## LucasFur

Alright guys close the forum down ... we have found the best knife. 

only problem is that the kanji looks like a child wrote it, I can live with that though. 

I'll see you guys in the next hobby forum we all fall into. I know it wont be EDC for me. maybe pens ...specifically master kato pens??? - [video=youtube;SByOoh2XK6c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SByOoh2XK6c[/video] - watch out, it may make you write funny :razz::happy2::rofl::dance4:

I will give a little over view of my kato when i use it a little more.


----------



## alterwisser

Chicagohawkie said:


> I meant to say what I said. My personal experience between the two is that I did not care much for the workhorse. Your opinion may differ. Some folks like the workhorse, some like the standard and some don't like katos at all. Different strokes.....



Where can I get the regular one?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

alterwisser said:


> Where can I get the regular one?



I got mine from Mark but he doesn't get many nor very often. I would ask Mike T where they are best available at, he seems to know everything about their distribution.


----------



## Timthebeaver

Which has the more childish kanji? I know the workhorse has more of it, but how does it compare in the childishness stakes relative to the standard shirogami #2? And what of the kurouchi/damascus/kikuryu lines?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

:beatinghead:^


----------



## Marek07

@LucasFur 
Thanks for the video of the fountain pen crafting. My father left me a couple very similar to the ones in the video that he got around the 1950s. I always thought they were pumped out en masse in a plastic factory. I had no idea of the actual source material or intricate work and artistry behind their creation. I will treat them with even more respect now.


----------



## Badgertooth

Get em while they're hot. JNS.


----------



## XooMG

Timthebeaver said:


> Which has the more childish kanji? I know the workhorse has more of it, but how does it compare in the childishness stakes relative to the standard shirogami #2? And what of the kurouchi/damascus/kikuryu lines?


It's basically every line. Childish is the wrong word though. Don't worry about it if you're after a good knife.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Stupid sleep, I wouldn't have minded the petty. Anyone catch what the Damascus knives went for?


----------



## Mucho Bocho

Petty's going to Raleigh to join the 240 & 210 guytos


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Congrats, maybe if I work up at 3:30AM I would've had a chance


----------



## ynot1985

Could have gotten the petty and 210 but decided against it.

Tanner- it was 420 Aud for the petty, 1200 AUD for the 210mm (it was 1030 earlier in the day before the ebony handle was added) and the 240 was 1200 ish AUD before the handle so i would say 1400ish after the ebony handle.. I guess AUD is almost 1:1 to CAD


----------



## YG420

I managed to snag the 240 dammy, been my unicorn for a while. I think the price was around $990 but maxim put on an ebony handle which raised the price another $100. I'll probably end up selling the ebony handle once I can get it rehandled.


----------



## XooMG

I'll probably be selling a 15cm petty once it comes back refreshed from JKI.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Thanks ynot, I did see the petty although it was out of stock, but the Damascus had vanished. And big congrats to you YG! I know that the 240 Damascus was on your radar for some time.


----------



## YG420

thanks man, just wish I didnt have to pay for the handle upgrade...


----------



## ynot1985

YG420 said:


> thanks man, just wish I didnt have to pay for the handle upgrade...



I would have so jumped on the 210 if it was the pre upgrade price that i saw all morning on the site


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I'll have to check what I paid for the 210 dammy earlier this year, it had the burnt chestnut handle. It'd be nice to be able to buy without the handle (especially if you have a custom planned), but at least it's a decent handle.


----------



## bennyprofane

I was able to snatch the 180mm Petty. Looking forward to my first Kato.


----------



## maxim

tjangula said:


> It'd be nice to be able to buy without the handle (especially if you have a custom planned), but at least it's a decent handle.


I will do it next time, nice to know


----------



## YG420

maxim said:


> I will do it next time, nice to know



Sounds like a good plan Maxim!


----------



## SliceNDice

https://toshoknifearts.com/shop/knives/kato-150mm-damascus-petty


----------



## AllanP

SliceNDice said:


> https://toshoknifearts.com/shop/knives/kato-150mm-damascus-petty



that price tag doe


----------



## FISHORDIE

I suppose the good news about the pricing is it the knife did not sell out in the first 30 seconds and is actually still available... At some point these knives were going to find their max price point. The question is Are we there yet?


----------



## Badgertooth

SliceNDice said:


> https://toshoknifearts.com/shop/knives/kato-150mm-damascus-petty



These guys aren't playing games huh?! Wow.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

That's been there for awhile... Almost $300CAD more than I paid for my 210 Gyuto.


----------



## FISHORDIE

There are also some Yanagiba Katos that have been there a while... I think pricing might have found it's level or even slightly above level. But, there is a world wide audience looking at these products... It only takes one to decide the price is acceptable. I have both the Work-horse and Damascus versions of the 240 Gyuto and love them both... I would love a Damascus version of the 300 Yanagiba and Suji but these are no longer at a reasonable price point for me should they actually, magically appear and still be available..... The selfish side of me says let the pricing go to the moon. The more reasonable side of me says, I am not selling mine so the only one that will benefit is my son should I pass.... I am fairly certain he would sell them... Therefore, my son should be grateful and say thank you to those who are setting these prices... LOL

Jamie


----------



## Mucho Bocho

I just received a 180 WH petty. I'm a little underwhelmed for $315 but it cuts very well. It's my third WH and it might me the last at these prices.


----------



## DamageInc

So you are no longer interested in a 180 WH gyuto?


----------



## AllanP

The jump might also due to horrible Canadian dollars


----------



## Mucho Bocho

Damage, oh you bet I still am but we haven't see a 180 gyuto in a while


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I wouldn't mind seeing the dragon engraved gyutos show up again


----------



## merge03

We're happy with the Katos we have. Received the 180 WH petty today and used it for dinner tonight. I love it that Kato san can charge for his knives what goes into them. I also build stuff, and have an appreciation for the cost of time and effort. I think we all get a little spoiled by the prices of mass produced stuff. I'm not questioning any of the performance/cost ratio versus other knives. I'm just saying that if one man wants to make his knife, mostly by hand, and charge what it's worth, then we should expect to pay that, if that is what we want. If that is not what we want, then open the wallet elsewhere. It's a free market. Personally, I value one man's efforts, but that's me. Others will have different opinions, which makes for a beautiful planet. Just being able to discuss these things is a privilege.


----------



## preizzo

Totally agree with you


----------



## Badgertooth

I'm not sure Tosho kicks back those extra few hundies they put on the tag to Kato san.


----------



## Mute-on

Mucho Bocho said:


> Damage, oh you bet I still am but we haven't see a 180 gyuto in a while



I have one. Can't remember what I paid but whatever it was, it was worth it. 

If one comes up, I highly recommend buying it. A fantastic meal for two knife, and every bit the workhorse Kato "product separating" grind. A shrunken 240 WH. I won't be selling anytime soon. Actually, never. 

I agree the prices are getting pretty steep. Luckily I bought my WH Katos over the last few years. In the scheme of things they are still priced consistent with their place in the hierarchy. IMHO, obviously 

Cheers

J


----------



## Mucho Bocho

So I used this petty knife quite a bit this weekend and while the price isn't easy to swallow, the knife performs like a dream and I'm thankful to Maxim for making these available. 




Mucho Bocho said:


> I just received a 180 WH petty. I'm a little underwhelmed for $315 but it cuts very well. It's my third WH and it might me the last at these prices.


----------



## milkbaby

Now i feel stupid for passing up a good deal on a gyuto that was offered to me...

Supply and demand!


----------



## strumke

Anyone see the price on the 325mm suji on JNS this morning? Can't seem to find the listing (I'm sure it went fast)


----------



## Iggy

Was about 900 or 950 inkl. VAT


----------



## mikedtran

*Anyone catch the price for the?*
260 Kasumi Gyuto
240 KU Gyuto


----------



## ynot1985

KU one was high 500 usd .. I think 260 one was 669 usd


----------



## Obsidiank

Does anyone know if there is actually a supply/demand issue or is it that there are not many retailers besides Maxim selling online? Are Shig/Kato knives easier to obtain if you're in japan and went directly to the the company?


----------



## mikedtran

Obsidiank said:


> Does anyone know if there is actually a supply/demand issue or is it that there are not many retailers besides Maxim selling online? Are Shig/Kato knives easier to obtain if you're in japan and went directly to the the company?



With Shigs you can't really go direct to the workshop unless you know a close friend or family member who knows the Shigefusa makers. Shigs as a whole are more expensive these days even direct from Japan.

Katos Maksim has his own line and gets rarer/different stuff so pricing is probably a bit higher. From what I have heard Kato is not as popular in Japan, while Shigefusa is very popular.


----------



## Obsidiank

ignore


----------



## ynot1985

As mike said, shigs are expensive and hard to find even in japan. I found a few in Kiya and some shops online based in Sanjo but you pay for it.. Kato on the other hand is hard to find in general


----------



## aboynamedsuita

240 workhorse wa-gyuto on BST :whistling:


----------



## Micioarch

Looking forward to see how is the lucky ones which got the last batch of kykuryu from Maxim . From the few picture they look amazing knifes


----------



## YG420

Missed out  anybody catch the price?


----------



## ynot1985

I managed to add them cart before it disappear but it won't let me checkout  .. 835 usd if you live outside the EU


----------



## YG420

Dam that sucks!


----------



## copperJon

Was there an email that went out? I don't see one


----------



## KimBronnum

I recieved an e-mail just after two o'clock European time.


----------



## KimBronnum

Didn't get a knife though [emoji45]


----------



## Omega

Yeah, email claims it was delivered at 7:06am central time. But I have alarms set to go off for such emails, and they hadn't alerted me until well after 7:40


----------



## ynot1985

For some reason, mine went straight to junk mail


----------



## Omega

Dude that sucks : /

The new format of the email threw me a bit, too


----------



## YG420

Mine also didnt alert me


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Mine also went to junk on my gmail but didn't even show up on my other email (subsequent email about stones came thru on both).

Came in right around 7:07 CST but the change from JNS Maksim to Japanesenaturalstones must have messed something up with the email filters.


----------



## copperJon

Yep, there it is in junk mail. Bummer. 

Maksim, if you're watching this thread, please send out these emails at precisely 903AM PST so that I might have a chance at picking one of these up.


----------



## jljohn

It was in my junk mail too, and it keeps arriving in the middle of the night (US - Eastern) so when I wake up, they are all gone!


----------



## Asteger

ynot1985 said:


> YG420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Missed out  anybody catch the price?
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to add them cart before it disappear but it won't let me checkout  .. 835 usd if you live outside the EU
Click to expand...


I had a look (was a bit busy at a hospital at the time, though) and remember DKK 6,500 non-EU which today in USD is $925. Pricey


----------



## tgfencer

Kato 210 gyuto on another forum.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...arcia-Alan-Warren-Neck-Knife-amp-Kiyoshi-Kato


----------



## Lazarus

That's an expensive Kato for non damascus


----------



## tgfencer

Oh I agree Lazarus, too rich for my blood. But I figured someone might be interested.


----------



## bkultra

$800 for a 210 mm workhorse... Buy it,don't think about it... Buy it.


----------



## strumke

Wow, I'd be happy to let mine go for $750, shipping included... That's a steal!


----------



## Anton

That's nuts


----------



## brainsausage

Ridiculous. I've bought two 240's in the past for between 4-500 a piece. This is like the forgecraft thing except on a gross scale.


----------



## Timthebeaver

Panacea for those who know jack ****...


----------



## Krassi

Tried one from a friend, was nice, the other knifes were cooler, well ¯\_(&#12484_/¯ .. but gogogo for it!


----------



## easy13

The Kato/Shig stuff is getting as tiresome as the prices ridiculous. Plenty other knives out there to explore


----------



## JaVa

:yeahthat:


----------



## aboynamedsuita

That's kinda pricey when JNS last had them they were $480ish

When I see the price ($1750 CAD is about $1330 USD) for the 210 Damascus at Tosho (https://toshoknifearts.com/shop/knives/kato-210mm-damascus-gyuto) it makes me really want to sell mine for even less than what it's listed at


----------



## Omega

150mm kasumi petty available on eBay. On the expensive side though... $480ish. I BELIEVE it comes in a kiri box though


----------



## bkultra

Standard kato has flatter profile,runs shorter in length and height, uses white steel. It comes down to preference. I have only owned the JNS varieties 

Can't remember where I found this picture originally (maybe CKT2G forum)


----------



## bkultra

I wish I could take credit, or more importantly give credit to whom orginally posted that picture.


----------



## lans8939

Bkultra thanks for re-posing the picture. Great comparison for those that don't have both knives.


----------



## Badgertooth

bkultra said:


> Standard kato has flatter profile,runs shorter in length and height, uses white steel. It comes down to preference. I have only owned the JNS varieties
> 
> Can't remember where I found this picture originally (maybe CKT2G forum)



Perfect. The original is also thinner behind the edge and has a more pronounced distal taper


----------



## Omega

Those changes in geometry and shape definitely make a difference in feel too. While I absolutely enjoy cutting with both, the traditional Kato feels (comparatively) nimble. I really really love how it cuts. And how the distal taper gives it a fantastic tip- the first time I used a standard Kato, coming from laser-style knives like the Konosuke HD2, I thought it was a bit of a fatty. But it zipped through those horizontal cuts on an onion like nothing, and I was immediately and hopelessly smitten. 

The Work Horse / JNS variant feels bigger and heavier, and less nimble because of it. Where the standard Kato feels like a fantastic cutter, the WH feels more like.. "if I can't cut it, I'll crush through it". A fun difference, to be sure.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I really like the 195mm (closer to 188 on the edge) original Kato gyuto I got recently. I like the lower tip compared to my 210 (closer to 217 on the edge) workhorse, but both have a permanent place on my rack.


----------



## Vancouverguy

I spy a kato damascus.. https://www.toshoknifearts.com/collections/kiyoshi-kato/products/damascus-white-2-br-petty  Only a petty tho!


----------



## bkultra

$1000 usd for a petty... GTFO


----------



## Vancouverguy

bkultra said:


> $1000 usd for a petty... GTFO



Truly a ridiculous price to put on a dammy kato. Wonder whats considered " reasonable" now a days..


----------



## TheCaptain

Yea...nope. Hope some reasonable ones come up in BST that I can get in on.


----------



## Moooza

Is Tosho usually so crazy, ridiculously expensive or are they just trying to gouge us this time?


----------



## Vancouverguy

Moooza said:


> Is Tosho usually so crazy, ridiculously expensive or are they just trying to gouge us this time?



I think that's what approximately how much a Kato Dammy goes for.... I think a 210 Kato just sold on the B/S/T for $1700 CAN = ~1330USD approx. so it's not far from "crazy" because they're the only one with it in stock. But that's just my input on it


----------



## chinacats

Moooza said:


> Is Tosho usually so crazy, ridiculously expensive or are they just trying to gouge us this time?



I believe that to be in the holiday spirit of bah humbug...

...these knives are supposed to be about performance...why anyone would give a **** about having a damascus kato is beyond me...off rant, for now


----------



## skewed

chinacats said:


> ...these knives are supposed to be about performance...why anyone would give a **** about having a damascus kato is beyond me...off rant, for now



I am 99% with you on that but they look neat and I suppose if you have the cash to spend... to each their own. Personally, I own zero damascus and do not intend to ever buy one. Higher price (usually much higher) for same performance.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Vancouverguy said:


> I think that's what approximately how much a Kato Dammy goes for.... I think a 210 Kato just sold on the B/S/T for $1700 CAN = ~1330USD approx. so it's not far from "crazy" because they're the only one with it in stock. But that's just my input on it



It did not go for that much, I just put that as the approximate value for the sake of BST since that's what they've sold for previously and I took offers. Didn't want to let it go but had some custom handles to pay for.


----------



## Godslayer

Honestly seems about right, they managed to sell a gyuto for 2k ish. $600 is for a San mai. Kato damascus is rare and tosho knows that. Kato is more about collecting than using now. Sucks but its a sign of the times


----------



## Brucewml

All right. Kato is available in rakuten. Now


----------



## Brucewml

It just get 2 Kasumi gyuto 210. And 1 Damascus gyuto 240 available. Cause I grab the 240 Kasumi gyuto. Lol


----------



## Omega

Wow. Those prices are pretty nice.


----------



## Brucewml

Actually I prefer standard version kato. Lol


----------



## Badgertooth

Damascus is gone. You'll not see a kasumi for cheaper


----------



## XooMG

Shame my card just expired.


----------



## skewed

Badgertooth said:


> Damascus is gone. You'll not see a kasumi for cheaper



I always have difficulties finding them on rakuten. Link plz?


----------



## F-Flash

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/nzshinkai/262770wk1s2/


----------



## skewed

Thanks for the link but my Japanese is not very good (non existent)- oh well


----------



## F-Flash

Google translate helps, at least little bit. :biggrin:


----------



## preizzo

Is it a 210 or a 240??


----------



## XooMG

preizzo said:


> Is it a 210 or a 240??


Short 210 (205). I was going to buy it but my card died so I gotta let someone else have it. Shame.


----------



## preizzo

Omg, it s ask me to write my name in Japanese, how do I gonna do that?


----------



## preizzo

There is someone want to buy it for me??


----------



## preizzo

Then I will send the money! Looking for a 210 for quite a while!!


----------



## preizzo

Why ask me fonetic version of my name??


----------



## skewed

preizzo said:


> Why ask me fonetic version of my name??



Darn, this is comical. I get to the point of adding where I am and can't enter in a valid postal code (looks like they are assuming a Japanese address).


----------



## skewed

Wow- I think I was actually able to get an order placed!


----------



## skewed

Perhaps try this link:

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/nzshinkai/item/262770wk1s2/


----------



## skewed

F-Flash said:


> http://item.rakuten.co.jp/nzshinkai/262770wk1s2/


 
BTW- thanks for your help! It might just have worked out.


----------



## preizzo

Was able to fill out everything, but the knife was sold out &#128529;&#128529;&#128529;


----------



## skewed

preizzo said:


> Was able to fill out everything, but the knife was sold out &#128529;&#128529;&#128529;



Sorry- I posted the link because it showed it was still in stock after my order went through. A few minutes later it was showing out of stock. If I do get the knife and don't like it, I will contact you first.


----------



## fatboylim

skewed said:


> Sorry- I posted the link because it showed it was still in stock after my order went through. A few minutes later it was showing out of stock. If I do get the knife and don't like it, I will contact you first.



Count me 2nd to buy @skewered, if you don't like the Kato. I had it in my basket but the registration process took ages and then it sold out! I'm curious to try it and 200mm is ideal for me.


----------



## preizzo

Si iii iii yesssssss Tk skewed.!! &#128525;&#128525;&#128525;


----------



## Badgertooth

210 original is one of my favourite knives. Enjoy


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Wow! Under 350 bucks! Seems like a lot of price gauging going on.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Badgertooth said:


> Damascus is gone. You'll not see a kasumi for cheaper



Was this a Xmas gift to yourself 




Chicagohawkie said:


> Wow! Under 350 bucks! Seems like a lot of price gauging going on.



That's how prices are in this overseas market 210s routinely go for over $500 on BST. I recently got a 195 gyuto in Japan and after I paid EMS shipping, 8% Japanese consumption tax and PayPal currency conversions it was $303 USD


----------



## Badgertooth

tjangula said:


> Was this a Xmas gift to yourself



I should be so lucky! Na, it's a Gengetsu or a Xerxes or a nice piece of suita.. haven't decided yet. But back to OP. Current madness really only reflects the price elasticity our microcosm and market has created. Japanese prices are more 'normal' and there's a layer of taxes and import duties faced by international vendors not reflected in Japanese pricing. Tosho seems to be leading the charge with its ultra-premium-at-a-cost positioning. Look to their collaboration/new venture called Hitohira where you can pick up NOS Shigs, NOS Takeda single bevels and ornate Kato kiridashi.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

That's how prices are in this overseas market 210s routinely go for over $500 on BST. I recently got a 195 gyuto in Japan and after I paid EMS shipping, 8% Japanese consumption tax and PayPal currency conversions it was $303 USD[/QUOTE]

Toshos prices are a joke in my opinion. I just saw this. https://www.toshoknifearts.com/collections/new-arrivals/products/shiraki-blue-2-br-240mm-gyuto
A shiraki San knive that looks like a konosuke knife with a nice handle for 2600 dollars! ***! Shiraki is a Fujiyama smith for konosuke from what I've been told.


----------



## Brucewml

Looks like mizuno blue 2 as well. That knife


----------



## Omega

Some price stuff I can understand.. Like, nickel Damascus Kato's skyrocketing in price, as they're supposed to be discontinued now. Or even just simple supply and demand breakdowns for Kato- demand vastly outweighs supply, so prices rise. 

But I'm with you entirely- I don't understand that Shiraki honyaki at all. His Konosuke B2 honyaki gyutos went for $1000~ w/ an ebony handle. Even if that had a full natural stone polish, I don't see how you can add $1600 /more/ to the price.


----------



## Krassi

Well if someone is willing to pay for it then its a market so ¯\_(&#12484_/¯


----------



## tgfencer

I think that is a bit past even an inflated market rate. The Shiraki honyaki 240 gyuto w/ ebony handle I got from James in November was almost 2000 dollars less. It was on the cheaper side and made of white 1, but even so, I doubt I'd see a major difference for my extra money.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

I just scored a konosuke blue 1 funayuki made by Shiraki with a rosewood/buffalo horn handle for 475. I guess the the toshow variant is worth 6 times that..... please. Absolutely absurd!


----------



## Brucewml

I feel tosho just accidentally add extra zero. Lol


----------



## Omega

Well.. That Konosuke Blue 1 Funayuki wasn't a honyaki.. so it's not the best comparison. But even still, lets say it was, at 2x the price you're still sub $1000.

Looking at the blade on Tosho, and trying to give them ever benefit of the doubt-
Perhaps it has a very rigorous and serious natural stone polish.
Perhaps the handle is incredibly high end. 
Perhaps the Canadian dollar isn't doing well compared to the Yen, so it cost more for them to purchase all the above..

...even with all of those things.. Hard to justify $2600. I'd be interested to hear what the "lineage" is- how the knife was commissioned. Unfortunately my ability to read kanji is next to nil, so I don't know what the markings on the blade signify.


----------



## rick_english

With Tosho being a vendor here, I'm surprised this thread hasn't been shut down already.


----------



## Moooza

They have a chance to respond. I don't think it would be in the spirit of this forum to stifle rational opinions


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Honyaki would easily double the cost of a knife, and the handle appears to be snakewood which is expensive and difficult to work with. Not sure what other factors to consider, but a knife is only too expense if someone isn't willing to pay for it.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

rick_english said:


> With Tosho being a vendor here, I'm surprised this thread hasn't been shut down already.



Well, in the spirt of reality I hope that wouldn't happen.


----------



## Badgertooth

I'm pretty sure being a vendor here doesn't mean your pricing isn't allowed to be discussed. What it does give you the opportunity to do is respond to your increasingly alienated forum members.


----------



## Aleque

preizzo said:


> Why ask me fonetic version of my name??



I tried to buy this yesterday and ran into the same problem. I have no idea what it was asking me for in that field. Just out of curiosity, what is the correct thing to type into those two text fields?


----------



## Badgertooth

It's the katakana version of your name, I think


----------



## skewed

Regarding Tosho, I see their business as a niche market/boutique or haute magasin de couteau (sorry if I mangled the French). The target audience is not us for the most part. BTW- this isn't meant as a criticism rather an observation.


----------



## Vancouverguy

I think this is a Kato Workhorse right here... http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...arcia-Alan-Warren-Neck-Knife-amp-Kiyoshi-Kato $800 seems steep for me but maybe not others!


----------



## ynot1985

seems like soreal is already on to it


----------



## Vancouverguy

ynot1985 said:


> seems like soreal is already on to it



Looks like he backed out if he messaged on the 26th, and the OP said every knife is available on the 30th


----------



## tgfencer

Vancouverguy said:


> I think this is a Kato Workhorse right here... http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...arcia-Alan-Warren-Neck-Knife-amp-Kiyoshi-Kato $800 seems steep for me but maybe not others!



Yeah I posted this a while back on this thread. For his asking price you might as well start looking for a honyaki or a custom and get a better deal.


----------



## preizzo

It is that a 210 Damascus or kasumi?


----------



## Moooza

Kasumi


----------



## preizzo

Wow 800 usd, just meet a guy on Instagram, he is from Japan and he found one over there for 180 usd. The people are just making money on this knives instead to use them. Crazy......


----------



## ynot1985

Most of the Japanese shops I have seen are selling them for 400usd for 240mm.. this is after they get their cut in profit so whatever they are going for online now is just crazy


----------



## preizzo

Incredible.....


----------



## Moooza

Where are these Japanese shops you talk of?


----------



## Moooza

I just got back from Japan (Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto). I went to many knife stores. Prices were cheaper online.


----------



## Evilsports

Seller is in Poland and the eBay account was created yesterday... I don't have the nerve to bid on that.


----------



## bkultra

Evilsports said:


> Seller is in Poland and the eBay account was created yesterday... I don't have the nerve to bid on that.



Seller is in Malta, knife was listed as in Poland (now says New York). The seller was banned yesterday and I'm assuming the user posting the link is the seller on a new account (IP can confirm this)


----------



## bkultra

Groszek said:


> Yes I am selling the knife. I am polish living in malta and unfortunately E-bay is not really popular in malta and Poland so i Create a sell in ebay.com not poland. I was banned yesterday and I send the message to admin becouse I dont know why. I think it was mistake becouse I didnt do nothink wrong. Sorry to make you confused I am going to post nothing from now on .



It was due to your selling practices (your behavior makes the sale appear to be fraudulent). Linking to live auctions is also not allowed. This is a knife Im interested in but wont be bidding on this one because of the above.


----------



## bkultra

Although I do now believe you do have this knife for sale, its just not how we do things around here. Im sure you will receive plenty of bids, but I am turned off by your selling practices. It was my WTB post you originally posted in and you believed you had a workhorse verity at that time. I helped you correctly identify the knife via PMs and asked you for your asking price once we figured out it was in fact the knife I was after. You then deiced to list it on ebay.pl and sent me a link... If you wanted to sell the knife here then fine, if you prefer ebay... cool. Just dont mix the two together trying to up the price


----------



## daveb

RE: Spastick007 / Groznak

We have bst rules in place for a reason, primarily to protect our members from less than ethical sellers. 50 posts or supporting member seems to screen most out. When a user intentionally circumvents these rules, it is cause for immediate banning - really nothing to discuss. C ya. 

I personally don't believe the above user has anything for sale. This "method" of selling, searching the bst posts and pm'ing the searcher is an ongoing problem. The same method has been used for Kato, Shig, and other high end knives, always to a overseas country where the buyer would have no recourse in a failed transaction.

Eff him.


----------



## jklip13

BLee said:


> kato so popular. i wonder which maker is going to get its next trend-mill.



My bet is Wusthof


----------



## ryanjams

mispost..


----------



## derek1ee

So I received my first Kato from JNS yesterday, and all I can see is, WOW. It's beautifully made, and just slice thru food effortlessly. I thought Shigs are good but out of box, Kato is another level. I also found it interesting that hagane and jigane looks alike and it's hard to tell. In fact my wife asked me whether it's a honyaki.


----------



## khashy

derek1ee said:


> So I received my first Kato from JNS yesterday, and all I can see is, WOW. It's beautifully made, and just slice thru food effortlessly. I thought Shigs are good but out of box, Kato is another level. I also found it interesting that hagane and jigane looks alike and it's hard to tell. In fact my wife asked me whether it's a honyaki.



Lucky man you are that your wife knows/cares what honyaki is....

All my wife knows/cares about is whether a particular knife makes me happy or not [emoji4]


----------



## krx927

khashy said:


> Lucky man you are that your wife knows/cares what honyaki is....
> 
> All my wife knows/cares about is whether a particular knife makes me happy or not [emoji4]



Does she need too know more?:thumbsup:


----------



## Evilsports

khashy said:


> All my wife knows/cares about is whether a particular knife makes me happy or not [emoji4]



Mine as well. Now I just need to find a way to convince her to give a damn about whether or not I'm happy!


----------



## khashy

krx927 said:


> Does she need too know more?:thumbsup:



Not at all, So long as she abides by our memorandum of understanding that 'the man's knives shall not be touched'


----------



## aboynamedsuita

derek1ee said:


> So I received my first Kato from JNS yesterday, and all I can see is, WOW. It's beautifully made, and just slice thru food effortlessly. I thought Shigs are good but out of box, Kato is another level. I also found it interesting that hagane and jigane looks alike and it's hard to tell. In fact my wife asked me whether it's a honyaki.



Congrats on the Kato! I find that after using for awhile the patina will be different on the hagane/jigane. Here is my 195 non-workhorse gyuto where you can notice towards the tip






Likewise when/if you sharpen and/or polish it is easier to apply a finish to the softer jigane that the harder hagane


----------



## Badgertooth

Tanner... hustle on to JNS you southpaw lefty weirdybeardy


----------



## TheCaptain

Two unhandled Kato's posted to the JNS website. Left handed grind so useless to me but good luck to all our lefties.

http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/yoshiaki-fujiwara-workhorse-kikuryu/


----------



## TheCaptain

Annnndddd.... wouldn't you know. The ONE TIME I actually see a JNS kato alert and it's for southpaws.

:viking:


----------



## Moooza

He doesn't say what finish they have. At that price point, is it just the normal kasumi?


----------



## valgard

Maksim is shown online in the store so maybe try to chat with him using his store's chat?


----------



## tgfencer

They are kasumi. https://www.instagram.com/japanesenaturalstones/


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Badgertooth said:


> Tanner... hustle on to JNS you southpaw lefty weirdybeardy



Otto you have no idea how much it pains me to have to sit this out. I've never seen a lefty Kato before, also told myself I'd limit my Kato collection to gyutos only, but still even if I sold my dammy Kato it wouldn't cover the yanagi which is the only one of the two I'd want.


----------



## ynot1985

Do it Tanner....

you'll never see another left handed one for a long time .. possibly forever...this is probably the only reason its still available.. 2 hours and not sold is almost a record for a kato these days




aboynamedsuita said:


> Otto you have no idea how much it pains me to have to sit this out. I've never seen a lefty Kato before, also told myself I'd limit my Kato collection to gyutos only, but still even if I sold my dammy Kato it wouldn't cover the yanagi which is the only one of the two I'd want.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Can't swing it unfortunately, even I have a limit.


----------



## tgfencer

Still there even now, not many lefties with deep pockets on these forums I guess. Early Christmas/birthday/anniversary/easter/valentines etc present for the next several years all rolled into one?


----------



## mcritchlow

I'm tempted too. But I just can't justify the cost/value of those, regardless of the rarity.


----------



## Moooza

I'm a lefty but resale on these things won't be great. It's too much of an investment for something that is priced so high because of the single bevel rarity


----------



## BlueSteel

mcritchlow said:


> I'm tempted too. But I just can't justify the cost/value of those, regardless of the rarity.



Agreed. The price on this one is 4X what I paid for my Yoshikane 300 lefty yanagiba from Epicurean Edge's Cyber Monday sale...and I winced a bit when I bought that one (though I knew it was an excellent sale price)!

Cheers,
Blair


----------



## aboynamedsuita

tgfencer said:


> Still there even now, not many lefties with deep pockets on these forums I guess. Early Christmas/birthday/anniversary/easter/valentines etc present for the next several years all rolled into one?



I've dug deep with the knives and jnats pre 2017, then the 240 dammy Kato came along recently and I couldn't resist, so cannot at this time.

Maybe we'll win the lotto pool at the office this weekend, or perhaps I'll magically get a tax refund lol. Now that I'm no longer attending school part time while working I don't get my tuition deductions


----------



## tgfencer

aboynamedsuita said:


> I've dug deep with the knives and jnats pre 2017, then the 240 dammy Kato came along recently and I couldn't resist, so cannot at this time.



We've all been there! Aside from the Katos, the extra premium on single-bevels makes me glad I'm not a lefty.


----------



## daveb

Take one for the team TJ, it will only hurt a little bit :cool2:


----------



## Kingkor

Im a lefty but got a custom on the way. The price is just too high for now.


----------



## tgfencer

Glance at JNS shows that the yanagiba is gone. Curious after all the this chat where its gone. Can anybody here admit to it?


----------



## Badgertooth

Meeeeeee!


----------



## tgfencer

'Amputation: Justifying unnecessary purchases one limb at a time'.


----------



## nevin

Badgertooth said:


> Meeeeeee!



Congratulations!!!!


----------



## Badgertooth

Wasn't me mate. Just being a smartarse.


----------



## Marek07

Badgertooth said:


> Meeeeeee!



Looks like Rick from The Walking Dead after his run in with the Govenor. (comic book version)
Not the nicest way to become a leftie.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

tgfencer said:


> Glance at JNS shows that the yanagiba is gone. Curious after all the this chat where its gone. Can anybody here admit to it?



Thank goodness that sold, I was debating doing something stupid I'd regret. I was only interested in the yanagi even though I barely need a suji as it currently stands lol


----------



## lagrangeL2

so...who got the Yanagiba...? Or is this just one giant troll? :biggrin:


----------



## brooksie967

INCOMING! 270 workhorse!


----------



## valgard

Beast mode ON


----------



## lagrangeL2

Ahh, did JNS toss some up?


----------



## tgfencer

Not JNS, I think Brooksie lucked out here on the forums. Beautiful knife!


----------



## brooksie967

Yessir just got very very lucky today!


----------



## preizzo

Cat includes?


----------



## brooksie967

No kitty cat lol.


----------



## preizzo

&#128514;&#128514;


----------



## Troy G

So who scored the Kato 150 and 180 petty. Had a horrible sleep and did not hear my phone. GRRRRR!


----------



## Troy G

What was the asking price?


----------



## lagrangeL2

I think the 150 petty was in the mid 200s


----------



## lagrangeL2

The 180 petty was in the mid 300s*


----------



## Troy G

Noooooooooo!!! Curse you sleep. Thanks guys.


----------



## DeepCSweede

I was up - they were gone before I could even pull them up on the website. I really wanted to see what the 150 petty looked like.


----------



## jacko9

I woke up an hour too late - I've been wanting a Kato Petty.


----------



## lagrangeL2

Does anyone know what the balance and weight of the pettys are like? I'm interested to see if they're blade-heavy and if the grind is similar to Kato's gyutos.


----------



## Lazarus

Don't worry, I am sure someone will sell them here on BST with a markup as has happened the last few times.


----------



## Troy G

Lazarus said:


> Don't worry, I am sure someone will sell them here on BST with a markup as has happened the last few times.



ullhair: Bad Karma!


----------



## Lazarus

Troy G said:


> ullhair: Bad Karma!



Yet it still happens, every time shigs and katos show up on JNS.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Lazarus said:


> Don't worry, I am sure someone will sell them here on BST with a markup as has happened the last few times.



That would be great! Looking for one!


----------



## Moooza

I got the 150. The 180 was gone so quickly.


----------



## Troy G

Moooza said:


> I got the 150. The 180 was gone so quickly.



Nice work.


----------



## s0real

Nice one mate @moooza. Looks like all 3 of them are going to be heading to the same place. Wink2


----------



## ynot1985

s0real said:


> Nice one mate @moooza. Looks like all 3 of them are going to be heading to the same place. Wink2



seems like Australia might be the land of the katos too


----------



## Moooza

s0real, you got the 180? If so, I was cursing you!


----------



## preizzo

Sweden has to be!!!


----------



## ynot1985

We need a stock check ... schanop has a fair share of both shigs and katos


----------



## s0real

Yes i did get both.


----------



## ynot1985

Damn 2 x 180 petties?


----------



## Moooza

Curse you s0real ;-)

Oh well, I got the 150 and a kitaeji santoku...


----------



## ynot1985

If you ever want to part with the katos.. let me know.. just making sure it stays in our shores lol


----------



## Omega

@ynot1985 I dunno man.. as long as I have YG420 for support, the States might have you beat for the land of Kato


----------



## ynot1985

Omega said:


> @ynot1985 I dunno man.. as long as I have YG420 for support, the States might have you beat for the land of Kato



Nah, mikedtran is the man.. he has at least 5-6.. one of each standard one from 180-270mm. He is American unfortunately but he has enough shigs to get direct entry to be an Aussie citizen


----------



## Mute-on

I have 7 Down Under


----------



## ynot1985

Mute-on said:


> I have 7 Down Under



7 katos or shigs?

I have 3 katos (many on order though), schanop has a few and brucewml has a few too (even a rare western)


----------



## Mute-on

Seven Katos including one kiridashi (that counts, right?). 
Shigs: about 14 ...


----------



## Mute-on

Whoops, forgot one: 15


----------



## Zweber12

ynot1985 said:


> Nah, mikedtran is the man.. he has at least 5-6.. one of each standard one from 180-270mm. He is American unfortunately but he has enough shigs to get direct entry to be an Aussie citizen



Lol, how many Shigs are needed for a permanent AUS residency?


----------



## ynot1985

Zweber12 said:


> Lol, how many Shigs are needed for a permanent AUS residency?



you have more shigs than anyone so you get it I reckon if you applied lol


----------



## Zweber12

ynot1985 said:


> you have more shigs than anyone so you get it I reckon if you applied lol



are there different levels, like "regular," "special," "honorary;" that would make it worth considering.. :doublethumbsup:


----------



## preizzo

I have 9 Katos!! That make me the king of the Kato knives?? &#128561;&#128561;&#128561;&#128525;&#128525;


----------



## preizzo

Missing only a parer, gyuto 270 and a 210 gyuto wh!! 
&#128514; &#128514;


----------



## aboynamedsuita

preizzo said:


> I have 9 Katos!! That make me the king of the Kato knives?? &#128561;&#128561;&#128561;&#128525;&#128525;





preizzo said:


> Missing only a parer, gyuto 270 and a 210 gyuto wh!!
> &#128514; &#128514;



I won't say who, but there is someone I know with a lot more several kikuryu gyutos, several Damascus gyutos, various knives in both workhorse and standard, single bevels, etc.


----------



## Badgertooth

Zweber12 said:


> Lol, how many Shigs are needed for a permanent AUS residency?



None, just a criminal record should suffice


----------



## ynot1985

Badgertooth said:


> None, just a criminal record should suffice



nah, we are deporting them back to NZ (for anyone who doesn't know, NZ and AU citizens have the right to live in either country but recently, we are sending all the criminals back to NZ if they aren't an AU citizen)


----------



## khashy

aboynamedsuita said:


> I won't say who, but there is someone I know with a lot more several kikuryu gyutos, several Damascus gyutos, various knives in both workhorse and standard, single bevels, etc.



Are we talking about Kiyoshi-san himself here?


----------



## F-Flash

I think he means one guy who lives in tennen toishi house.. If he is who i think he is, he also has tamahagane knife from kato.


----------



## Jacob_x

Kato tamahagane? You should be careful uttering such words around here, someone might have heart attack...


----------



## ynot1985

Jacob_x said:


> Kato tamahagane? You should be careful uttering such words around here, someone might have heart attack...



They do exist.. but so bloody rare and $$


----------



## Mucho Bocho

So many Romantics around here...


----------



## Kingkor

So who got the petties and the santoku?


----------



## preizzo

Why in a Sunday???


----------



## lagrangeL2

Do only the JNS workhorses/kikuryus use secret steel and have a unique grind, or are the JNS pettys also made to non-standard specifications?


----------



## geoff_nocon

A bit pricey

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/kiyoshi-kato-petty-knife-150mm/322495364204


----------



## Anton

A bit???


----------



## Omega

So someone bought them. Didn't use them. And is charging $200 MORE /per/ blade, plus shipping. 

Yeah. A bit more expensive.


----------



## ynot1985

That's pretty much 2-2.5x the price in Japan.. damn


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Capitalism at work!


----------



## Von blewitt

The seller is a member here


----------



## preizzo

.....


----------



## Troy G

If only I was quicker on the draw when Maxim had Katos and Shigs for sale. Maxim must be selling his Shigs and Katos at wholesale price.


----------



## geoff_nocon

Anton said:


> A bit???



Was being nice because he's a member here


----------



## lagrangeL2

I...suspect that the seller in question actually has 4 of them: 2 150s and 2 180s. He....could hypothetically be selling 2 of them at near 2x the price, to pay for the other 2.

I also suspect that most of us know who this person is...


----------



## Jacob_x

Hard not to feel ill will towards people catch and release buying like this with such high profit margins. Balls-out profiteering from their pot-luck and a temporary fad. At least it's on ebay and not on the bst here, which would probably lead to all sorts of chaos... 
That said, I have paid slightly higher than market price for a rare knife before


----------



## Kingkor

The kato prices have gone over the roof thats the price of a 210 gyuto at least thats crazy.


----------



## brooksie967

I got my 270 workhorse for cost essentially. Score!


----------



## ynot1985

Kingkor said:


> The kato prices have gone over the roof thats the price of a 210 gyuto at least thats crazy.



The price of that petty is more than my ku 240 gyuto


----------



## lagrangeL2

I see the 150mm up there for the mid 400s $....is what it is I guess.


----------



## preizzo

Can't find the shigefusa alert so I will post it here


----------



## preizzo

Cleancut has some Kitaeji and a few kasumi


----------



## ashy2classy

They're actually in stock. Anyone know the dimensions of the 210? If I didn't just buy a DT ITK I'd pick one of these up.


----------



## Mucho Bocho

Ok it might be catch and release as I've never been a nakiri fan but am a big Kato Workhorse and in a KU 180 nakiri. The force was too strong. We'll see


----------



## Moooza

That price at cleancut....


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Wonder if the Cap'n got lucky with the WH Nakiri?


----------



## Troy G

Actually got to see the Kato Nakiri available for sale. Had I not just bought a Toyama Nakiri I wouldve been stoked to own a Kato.


----------



## TheCaptain

aboynamedsuita said:


> Wonder if the Cap'n got lucky with the WH Nakiri?



Nooooooooo!

(Goes back to the corner to continue sobbing quietly)

In all seriousness I consider myself very fortunate to have shigs in 210 240 and a 165 Nakiri (even if it was a lousy sharpening job, yes - I got it much better). 

Only been at this game for about 7 months or so and I can be patient. At a minimum I'd love to get Kato's in 210 and any size Nakiri...

So any catch and release folks out there, please keep me in mind.


----------



## fatboylim

TheCaptain said:


> Nooooooooo!
> 
> (Goes back to the corner to continue sobbing quietly)
> 
> In all seriousness I consider myself very fortunate to have shigs in 210 240 and a 165 Nakiri (even if it was a lousy sharpening job, yes - I got it much better).
> 
> Only been at this game for about 7 months or so and I can be patient. At a minimum I'd love to get Kato's in 210 and any size Nakiri...
> 
> So any catch and release folks out there, please keep me in mind.



I might have scored a 180 Kurouchi Nakiri last night. I can give you an idea how it compares to the Toyama 210 Nakiri that you have. 

Can't wait to learn its nuances in sharpening.

I'll give you first dibs if I am unable to tame this one!


----------



## TheCaptain

fatboylim said:


> I might have scored a 180 Kurouchi Nakiri last night. I can give you an idea how it compares to the Toyama 210 Nakiri that you have.
> 
> Can't wait to learn its nuances in sharpening.
> 
> I'll give you first dibs if I am unable to tame this one!



That would be freaking awesome!!! I have both the Toyama 210 and 180 from JNS. Love them both but they do feel very different in the hand (as I would expect them to).

Do you have another 180 you can compare it to?


----------



## lagrangeL2

I feel ya Cap. I'm taking a couple of trips to Japan. If I can make an appointment, I may stop by in Hokkaido with a sack full of cash and pay Kato san a visit.


----------



## fatboylim

TheCaptain said:


> That would be freaking awesome!!! I have both the Toyama 210 and 180 from JNS. Love them both but they do feel very different in the hand (as I would expect them to).
> 
> Do you have another 180 you can compare it to?



Nothing in the heavy weight nakiri range, apologies. I used mainly lazer and middleweight knives before finding heavier weight Toyamas. I have never looked back!

I know what you mean regarding 180 vs 210 Nakiri. 180 nakiri feels like a nimble, flat profile, vegetable razor. A 210 feels more like an ultra sharp vegetable cleaver.


----------



## ynot1985

lagrangeL2 said:


> I feel ya Cap. I'm taking a couple of trips to Japan. If I can make an appointment, I may stop by in Hokkaido with a sack full of cash and pay Kato san a visit.



I think you might be mistaken by the city name.. there are 2 hokuto city in Japan.. one near Tokyo and the other Hokkaido.. I don't think kato is in the Hokkaido one


----------



## lagrangeL2

I think you're right ynot, it's probably the one in Yamanashi prefecture. I also don't know if a formal introduction is needed to make an appointment, or really if Kato san has an email address, but there's plenty of time.


----------



## Jacob_x

210 standard on ebay, more than market price, but be it a gyuto i'm surprised it's still there...


----------



## Kingkor

Nothing on ebay &#128546;


----------



## fatboylim

Jacob_x said:


> 210 standard on ebay, more than market price, but be it a gyuto i'm surprised it's still there...



If it were a 180 or 195 Gyuto I would have definitely gone for it!


----------



## ynot1985

fatboylim said:


> If it were a 180 or 195 Gyuto I would have definitely gone for it!



but a 210 standard kato is basically a 190 gyuto.. they are smaller than normal

a 180 one would be closer to a petty


----------



## Chicagohawkie

My kato 210 measures in at 205mm
My kato 240 is 232mm

So each knive will vary slightly.


----------



## fatboylim

ynot1985 said:


> but a 210 standard kato is basically a 190 gyuto.. they are smaller than normal
> 
> a 180 one would be closer to a petty



That is tempting, I'm after a small Gyuto / very tall petty. 170mm to 180mm is ideal but needs to be at least 45mm height. How tall are yours?


----------



## Jacob_x

well a few of you have asked for the link, so I'll just post it here and you can fight it out! £475 for a 200mm, not worth it guys!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kyoshi-Ka...273243?hash=item1c8305b39b:g:sEsAAOSwN6JY-kHR


----------



## Moooza

That's not a workhorse right?


----------



## inzite

not surprised it's at that price since price at Tosho is on the higher side but they might have taken into the account of all the import tax we get hit with.


----------



## bkultra

Moooza said:


> That's not a workhorse right?



Correct that is a standard profile


----------



## Kingkor

Way way too high its insane and thats before any shipping...


----------



## lagrangeL2

Quick question, did anyone receive a JNS email for the Kato and shigs that where instagramed on....sunday/monday?


----------



## Kingkor

No kato only shigs.


----------



## TheCaptain

Huh, I didn't even get the one for shigs...


----------



## preizzo

Don't think &#129300; he send any email... Captain there a Kato on ebay.. &#128522;


----------



## TheCaptain

*Snort* Yea, ummm over $600usd for a 210 non-workhorse?

Not in that much of a rush. I can be patient and wait. SOMEDAY I will win the JNS lottery irate1:


----------



## inzite

TheCaptain said:


> *Snort* Yea, ummm over $600usd for a 210 non-workhorse?
> 
> Not in that much of a rush. I can be patient and wait. SOMEDAY I will win the JNS lottery irate1:



if he bought it from tosho, that's not too far off for a resale lol.


----------



## lagrangeL2

Same, Cap'n.

Edit: for the JNS email.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

fatboylim said:


> That is tempting, I'm after a small Gyuto / very tall petty. 170mm to 180mm is ideal but needs to be at least 45mm height. How tall are yours?



47mm


----------



## preizzo

Mine it s 48 mm tall 208 mm long


----------



## Eitan78

Apologies in advance
I'm relatively new to the Kato world, not to knives just kato...(only 2)

could anyone explain the differences in shapes and benefits of Standard vs JNS design, workhorse?


----------



## inzite

Eitan78 said:


> Apologies in advance
> I'm relatively new to the Kato world, not to knives just kato...(only 2)
> 
> could anyone explain the differences in shapes and benefits of Standard vs JNS design, workhorse?



original has a flatter profile and possibly thinner and lighter too. Maksim has not disclosed the steel in the WH version but original is white 2.


----------



## Eitan78

inzite said:


> original has a flatter profile and possibly thinner and lighter too. Maksim has not disclosed the steel in the WH version but original is white 2.



thank you!


----------



## lagrangeL2

lagrangeL2 said:


> Quick question, did anyone receive a JNS email for the Kato and shigs that where instagramed on....sunday/monday?



So...are the above: clean-up shots of his previous sale, or were the Kato and Shig spoken for, or is something else going on?


----------



## DeepCSweede

lagrangeL2 said:


> So...are the above: clean-up shots of his previous sale, or were the Kato and Shig spoken for, or is something else going on?



Shigs and Kato's tend to be bought within a minute or so of posting. I have literally received the email, gone into the website, put it in my cart and lost it due to someone checking out before me. It is that quick on JNS. You might have a shot with a deba or yanagiba, but a gyuto will be gone instantly. I got inpatient and finally pulled one of the Kato 210's off of Tosho, but still am a little chafed that I ponied up the extra $$$ to do it. Perfect example of supply, demand, impatient nature and $$ available at the time.


----------



## lagrangeL2

DeepCSweede said:


> Shigs and Kato's tend to be bought within a minute or so of posting. I have literally received the email, gone into the website, put it in my cart and lost it due to someone checking out before me. It is that quick on JNS. You might have a shot with a deba or yanagiba, but a gyuto will be gone instantly. I got inpatient and finally pulled one of the Kato 210's off of Tosho, but still am a little chafed that I ponied up the extra $$$ to do it. Perfect example of supply, demand, impatient nature and $$ available at the time.



Ahh, to clarify: on 5/7-8, JNS put up an Instagram post, without an accompanying item-listing-email (at least to some of us). I was wondering if the items have been posted for sale yet? If they haven't, is the Instagram post a post-cleanup shot of previously sold items, or does it indicate something else?


----------



## inzite

lagrangeL2 said:


> Ahh, to clarify: on 5/7-8, JNS put up an Instagram post, without an accompanying item-listing-email (at least to some of us). I was wondering if the items have been posted for sale yet? If they haven't, is the Instagram post a post-cleanup shot of previously sold items, or does it indicate something else?



instagram contains to be release and already sold items.


----------



## ynot1985

Tosho has a Damascus petty but *** is that price... 2000CAD

that's 2 x what I paid for my 210 Damascus gyuto


----------



## Moooza

I bought the same Damascus petty from Tosho a little while ago. Paid significantly less but was still a ridiculous price. They are taking the piss at 2000 CAD. The petty is the most beautiful knife I own however.


----------



## ynot1985

Moooza said:


> I bought the same Damascus petty from Tosho a little while ago. Paid significantly less but was still a ridiculous price. They are taking the piss at 2000 CAD. The petty is the most beautiful knife I own however.



wasn't it 1300CAD before?

at 2000 CAD, I might as well get a custom one from a MS instead


----------



## Badgertooth

I think we've hit Peak-Tosho.


----------



## lagrangeL2

I've....a bad feeling about things to come :O


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Tosho says at the bottom of the listing that this is the last Damascus knife that kato is making? If that's the case I could see katos Damascus knives reaching Hattori KD levels!


----------



## Badgertooth

That's a big claim but then there is a photo of them shooting the **** with him at a knife show in Japan so i guess their info is first hand and current.


----------



## ynot1985

Badgertooth said:


> That's a big claim but then there is a photo of them shooting the **** with him at a knife show in Japan so i guess their info is first hand and current.



I'm 50/50 on it.. he has told other people he has stopped making them and then a year afterwards they are still been made


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Badgertooth said:


> That's a big claim but then there is a photo of them shooting the **** with him at a knife show in Japan so i guess their info is first hand and current.



Whatever the case I'm lucky to have secured my two kato Damascus gyutos when I did! 1500.00 bucks for a 150 petty is beyond belief! Extrapolate that out to a 240 gyuto and it would be priced at 3000.00


----------



## Mute-on

I have a Kato kasumi kiridashi I bought in Japan last month. 
Anyone else have one or heard of one?


----------



## Mucho Bocho

The Nakiri arrived. Its a monster

185mm edge length
54mm height at heel
5.8mm spine at handle
214g with quality ho/streaky buffalo handle

the finish is rough, very rough. Looks almost like it came out of the scrap pile. gouges and unevenness in the cladding. The blade has a shallow continuous belly. I'm amazed at how consistent his kanji is (even if its child-like ;-). The tip is such that you can actually rock chop if desired. As stated below, I've never been a Nakiri fan (Moritaka & Takeda) but Kato San has really created something special. the weight and grind just power through veg. The core steel is almost 4mm thick coming out of the handle. I think that's one of the things that make Kato's knives so magical, using thick core and thin clad. Thanks Maxim and of course Mr Kato. Guess this will be a catch for now. 

Cap't your day will come and it will be so worth the quest. 



Mucho Bocho said:


> Ok it might be catch and release as I've never been a nakiri fan but am a big Kato Workhorse and in a KU 180 nakiri. The force was too strong. We'll see


----------



## TheCaptain

Mucho Bocho said:


> Cap't your day will come and it will be so worth the quest.



I'm glad a few of our group got in on these. FWIW I have both Watanabe and Toyama Nakiri's (among several other masters) and really, REALLY like them. At this point getting a Kato is more of an exercise in curiosity to compare against what I currently love using, to see if there is something better out there. 

Anyone else out there with lighting quick reflexes - if these come up again and your finger happens to stutter and you get two instead of one, keep me in mind.


----------



## inzite

kato nakiri is very interesting really want to see how it goes up against my denka mini cleaver (175mm by 81mm)

@tanner, canada post over ur nakiri


----------



## fatboylim

Mucho Bocho said:


> The Nakiri arrived. Its a monster
> 
> 185mm edge length
> 54mm height at heel
> 5.8mm spine at handle
> 214g with quality ho/streaky buffalo handle
> 
> the finish is rough, very rough. Looks almost like it came out of the scrap pile. gouges and unevenness in the cladding. The blade has a shallow continuous belly. I'm amazed at how consistent his kanji is (even if its child-like ;-). The tip is such that you can actually rock chop if desired. As stated below, I've never been a Nakiri fan (Moritaka & Takeda) but Kato San has really created something special. the weight and grind just power through veg. The core steel is almost 4mm thick coming out of the handle. I think that's one of the things that make Kato's knives so magical, using thick core and thin clad. Thanks Maxim and of course Mr Kato. Guess this will be a catch for now.
> 
> Cap't your day will come and it will be so worth the quest.



Great round up Mucho Bocho. 

I just received my Kato Nakiri 180 from the same batch. A slight variation on dimensions, as would be expected. Mine sits at:

180mm length on the nose
52m tall at heel
5mm spine thickness
203g weight with light high grade buffalo horn handle

A very even grind and the kurouchi finish is even and much nicer than expected. More rustic than a Shig kurouchi but still very even on mine. 

The stand out character of this knife is: 
a) noticeable heft/density of steel for such a small knife. This is my type of knife! 
b) there is a noticeable taper from heel to tip that continues down the spine through the grind. This means there is more convexity and power at the heel and yet is very thin at the tip. If you make longer push cuts, it feels like delicate position at the tip that glides to power at the heel. I have never seen this type of grind so pronounced and it works! 
c) the edge you can get is amazing. I thought I knew shaving sharp on my Toyamas. This is another level of sharpness and gets SCREAMING sharp (confirming Badgertooth's kind advice). 

When comparing to Toyama, I would say the Toyama works for larger knives with the toughness and sharpness to power through dense product. The toughness really matters and it is still shaving sharp. 

This Nakiri Kato has extra sharpness and hardness but less toughness on the edge as would be expected. It is excellent for fine detailed work and smaller blade size. (note: I have yet to try a Kato 240 Gyuto where the grind is likely to be different to the Nakiri). It is a nimble size and comfortably handles cross cuts on onions, fine chopping zucchini and power push cutting carrots and butternut squash (although peeling the squash was easier with the Toyama 210 Nakiri). 

If you like sharpening and hefty blades definitely get/try a Kato if you already like Toyama/Watanabe (Cap'n you are still 1st in line for this nakiri although it maybe staying a little while).

This Nakiri came screaming sharp great thanks to Maksim. I am openly biased towards JNS and their great work. 

This Kato Workhorse Nakiri is making we want a 180mm to 195mm Kato Gyuto! I'll be keeping my Toyama 240 Gyuto and 210 Nakiri for the tougher ingredients 

Early reports so I might update as I get to know the Kato.


----------



## Badgertooth

Great write ups Mucho and Lim, these really sound special. These also get real fun on the stones. Lim you've had a taste of the core steels refinement possibility but things also get interesting with the cladding and how best to polish it


----------



## fatboylim

Badgertooth said:


> Great write ups Mucho and Lim, these really sound special. These also get real fun on the stones. Lim you've had a taste of the core steels refinement possibility but things also get interesting with the cladding and how best to polish it



That sounds awesome Otto. The rabbit hole just gets bigger!

I have very limited experience with kurouchi. After the kurouchi wears off does it become nashiji? And, can you polish it up to a kasumi finish?


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Mucho Bocho said:


> The Nakiri arrived. Its a monster
> 
> 185mm edge length
> 54mm height at heel
> 5.8mm spine at handle
> 214g with quality ho/streaky buffalo handle





fatboylim said:


> Great round up Mucho Bocho.
> 
> I just received my Kato Nakiri 180 from the same batch. A slight variation on dimensions, as would be expected. Mine sits at:
> 
> 180mm length on the nose
> 52m tall at heel
> 5mm spine thickness
> 203g weight with light high grade buffalo horn handle




Mine arrived yesterday:
180mm blade length heel to tip/radius (184mm on spine)
53mm blade height at heel (45-48mm at tip/radius)
5.7mm spine thickness above heel (1.6mm at tip)
224g with 127mm long magnolia & Buffalo horn D-handle (nice quality with a hint of streaking on the bottom side, think Shig league) I have a similar sized octagonal burnt chestnut handle which will be going on in due course (will also match my KU gyuto )

Some pics: https://www.instagram.com/p/BT7yJhagFrw/?taken-by=aboynamedsuita&hl=en



inzite said:


> kato nakiri is very interesting really want to see how it goes up against my denka mini cleaver (175mm by 81mm)
> 
> @tanner, canada post over ur nakiri



Perhaps we can have a Canadian gathering sometime


----------



## Marek07

This flood of Kato nakiris has me seriously wanting. :hungry:
Desire for a 240mm gyuto has waned after seeing latest prices but would love to try one of his nakiris - need to compare it to my other six! So... could I stand in line behind TheCaptain and request any that might be released?


----------



## valgard

aboynamedsuita said:


> Perhaps we can have a Canadian gathering sometime



lus1:


----------



## fatboylim

I think a 180 workhorse gyuto and 210 workhorse gyuto went up on JNS and sold straight away!


----------



## Troy G

Yeah and apparently a Shigefusa or two. I thought Maxim usually sent out an email? Oh well!


----------



## fatboylim

Yeah no email for me too...


----------



## preizzo

No mail for me


----------



## Mucho Bocho

Nada


----------



## Badgertooth

Looks like there's a Damascus too


----------



## tgfencer

Yup, a 240 Damascus, first thing I noticed. Haven't gotten an email for the last few myself, though I do expect that sometimes given the iffy reliability of them in the past.


----------



## preizzo

Email arrived and 30 sec later the item were gone...


----------



## inzite

fingers crossed..!!!


----------



## Lazarus

preizzo said:


> Email arrived and 30 sec later the item were gone...



Gone 8 seconds later for me, lol I was staring at my inbox when it came in, instantly went to the site, could have picked up the Shigefusa though.


----------



## lagrangeL2

Yah, the Katos and the Shig were gone within 3 minutes. Someone should publish a paper on this craze.


----------



## strumke

Ah, so they went up on the site earlier but the email that came out a few min ago was just really really late


----------



## inzite

strumke said:


> Ah, so they went up on the site earlier but the email that came out a few min ago was just really really late



nah, the went up but was not enabled for sale yet, just did around same time email was sent. fair competition.  dammy dammy woohooo


----------



## tgfencer

You snagged the damascus Inzite? Rounding out your collection if so!


----------



## lagrangeL2

Congrats!

Who picked up the 210 and 180?


----------



## ecrphoto

Ah! I tried an missed.... on the Shig, it went a few minutes later than the Katos, but I still wasn't fast enough - rookie mistake, didn't have an existing JNS account.


----------



## inzite

tgfencer said:


> You snagged the damascus Inzite? Rounding out your collection if so!



just keeping up with you hahah


----------



## lagrangeL2

I apologize for derailing the thread, but since you fellas have the fastest clicks/pushes(?) in the land...

Can anybody recommend a good app/program that will notify you when an email arrives (for a client other then Outlook)? And what do you guys use currently?


----------



## inzite

lagrangeL2 said:


> I apologize for derailing the thread, but since you fellas have the fastest clicks/pushes(?) in the land...
> 
> Can anybody recommend a good app/program that will notify you when an email arrives (for a client other then Outlook)? And what do you guys use currently?



just gmail on my phone, never got anything very delayed.


----------



## ynot1985

I gave up shopping at jns after all my notification emails go to junk mail instead. Am I the only person having this issue?


----------



## inzite

ynot1985 said:


> I gave up shopping at jns after all my notification emails go to junk mail instead. Am I the only person having this issue?



which email provider? i find my personal domain is spotty at getting jns email while gmail always gets it.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Congrats on the dammy inzite!

Only time I had it hit the junk email when it first changed from JNSMaksim to JapaneseNaturalStones 210 kikuryu gyutos


----------



## ynot1985

inzite said:


> which email provider? i find my personal domain is spotty at getting jns email while gmail always gets it.



I use hotmail


----------



## inzite

ynot1985 said:


> I use hotmail



try gmail


----------



## inzite

aboynamedsuita said:


> Congrats on the dammy inzite!
> 
> Only time I had it hit the junk email when it first changed from JNSMaksim to JapaneseNaturalStones 210 kikuryu gyutos



thank you my friend in all ways!


----------



## aboynamedsuita

inzite said:


> thank you my friend in all ways!


----------



## Anton

How much did the dammy go for?


----------



## aboynamedsuita

It was like $1280 CAD iirc


----------



## ynot1985

aboynamedsuita said:


> It was like $1280 CAD iirc



That's the part I love about maksim.. very fair price for it.. only slightly more than the price in Japan considering freight to Denmark and out.. unlike some other sellers of Katos


----------



## aboynamedsuita

ynot1985 said:


> That's the part I love about maksim.. very fair price for it.. only slightly more than the price in Japan considering freight to Denmark and out.. unlike some other sellers of Katos



And someone still bought it lol.


----------



## inzite

aboynamedsuita said:


>



canada, the great land for katos


----------



## ynot1985

aboynamedsuita said:


> And someone still bought it lol.



OMG.. people are either vey rich.. or just gullable


----------



## inzite

ynot1985 said:


> OMG.. people are either vey rich.. or just gullable



wouldnt be suprised its a local buyer... if you buy else were then import it, the tax and duty can be heavy and then you add on the exclusivity kf it.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

inzite said:


> wouldnt be suprised its a local buyer... if you buy else were then import it, the tax and duty can be heavy and then you add on the exclusivity kf it.



Would make sense, the house prices in some parts of the GTA are insane too saw some on the news selling for $2-5M that'd look like they'd be $500k here, and some are big time fixer-uppers.


----------



## danemonji

I wonder how hard it is to fake these kato's if you have an experienced anonymous japanese smith. I mean with an example knife any of them can forge a kato and chiesel the Kato kanji and sell it for many times it.s value. I mean did you guys ever think you might be buying a fake? What is the proof that kato actually touched that blade. Because he has been retiring for a long time yet knifes keep pouring. I can bet knifes will continue to show long after his death (from an immaginary stockpile)


----------



## Badgertooth

I don't think they could. If they could, they'd be making knives that good in their own right and you'd have heard of them.


----------



## jklip13

danemonji said:


> I wonder how hard it is to fake these kato's if you have an experienced anonymous japanese smith. I mean with an example knife any of them can forge a kato and chiesel the Kato kanji and sell it for many times it.s value. I mean did you guys ever think you might be buying a fake? What is the proof that kato actually touched that blade. Because he has been retiring for a long time yet knifes keep pouring. I can bet knifes will continue to show long after his death (from an immaginary stockpile)



Here's why I wouldn't worry about that. Most of these craftsmen have devoted their life to practicing their trade. No one goes into blacksmithing for the money. Even if Kato's stuff eventually sells for double what he charges, if you copied his knives to look exactly like his, you would probably still be making less than the minimum wage in any American city. If a cunning blacksmith wanted to make a buck, maybe a job at the library would be more lucrative. 
On the same note, shout out to all our knife makers salving over their trade and trying to improve every day.


----------



## malexthekid

I also think of that was the case you would see them popping up in places other than the 2 or 3 vendors that have been selling them since before they were popular.


----------



## ynot1985

malexthekid said:


> I also think of that was the case you would see them popping up in places other than the 2 or 3 vendors that have been selling them since before they were popular.



from what I can remember only 4-5 vendors have ever sold katos outside of Japan.. and nowadays.. only 2 still does


----------



## fatboylim

aboynamedsuita said:


> It was like $1280 CAD iirc



Can anyone confirm how much the 180 and 210 gyutos went for? I think I saw the 180 at US$440 before VAT; but the link has gone after sale, as would be expected.


----------



## valgard

425 and 475 before VAT IIRC


----------



## lagrangeL2

did anyone see whether the 180 and 210 were workhorses, or standards?


----------



## aboynamedsuita

They didn't say workhorse but the pic of the 180 was a WH I think


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Looks like that kato 150 Damascus petty sold at tosho! Has to be the highest price inch for inch I have ever seen paid for a kato.


----------



## ynot1985

Chicagohawkie said:


> Looks like that kato 150 Damascus petty sold at tosho! Has to be the highest price inch for inch I have ever seen paid for a kato.



Tosho said it's the very last Damascus kato will ever make.. hmm but JNS just sold a 240 mm gyuto this week


----------



## inzite

ynot1985 said:


> Tosho said it's the very last Damascus kato will ever make.. hmm but JNS just sold a 240 mm gyuto this week



maybe mine is the last!


----------



## Lazarus

ynot1985 said:


> Tosho said it's the very last Damascus kato will ever make.. hmm but JNS just sold a 240 mm gyuto this week



I think Tosho is full of **** and doing the salesman pitch to drive up prices.


----------



## Anton

Lazarus said:


> I think Tosho is full of **** and doing the salesman pitch to drive up prices.



Yup


----------



## brooksie967

Lazarus said:


> I think Tosho is full of **** and doing the salesman pitch to drive up prices.



Yup!


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Never bought a thing from tosho and probably never will.


----------



## jacko9

I bought a Konosuke HD2 Gyuto from Tosho at a very good price a few years ago but, I can't see paying what they are asking for the very rare Kato's. They are a small shop with excellent customer service and it was a pleasure doing business with them.


----------



## inzite

jacko9 said:


> I bought a Konosuke HD2 Gyuto from Tosho at a very good price a few years ago but, I can't see paying what they are asking for the very rare Kato's. They are a small shop with excellent customer service and it was a pleasure doing business with them.



To be fair i think their prices are a reflection of what some of us canadians pay when we import stuff along with our weak CAD and in the case of kato - the exclusivity. I hope they find the balance to stay in business as it is sometimes great to be able to handle the knives in person.


----------



## jacko9

Perhaps my Comcast Internet server is slow but all of the Kato's and Shigs were sold within one minute of my getting the last JNS email. Has this also happened to others?


----------



## StonedEdge

Lazarus said:


> I think Tosho is full of **** and doing the salesman pitch to drive up prices.



I get the same feeling as well


----------



## inzite

jacko9 said:


> Perhaps my Comcast Internet server is slow but all of the Kato's and Shigs were sold within one minute of my getting the last JNS email. Has this also happened to others?



they sell fast man!


----------



## danemonji

1300 usd for a 150mm petty. In Romania we have a saying...you're not stupid for asking...you are for paying. I think some would just pay anything to join the hype. retailers will always sell the immage of a hermit who trained with some swordsmith and working on his own at a remote forge doing all by hand am polishing the knife with the sking of some unborn goat...so that it.s better then machine processing...in order to make your knife feel special. You are not paying the tool which is a knife or the steel or the workmanship ...you are just paying for the fantasy.


----------



## nutmeg

I see handcrafted things like paintings. Once you understand and love they become art and their price is not important as long as you can afford them.
I have/had 10 Katos, I feel Kato's grind perfect and their damascus version worth any prices.


----------



## labor of love

If people are willing to pay then what's the problem?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

There is always someone who's willing to pay! You really can't go wrong with a kato Damascus blade. I would have many more if I could afford them.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

The Toronto housing market is one of the hottest in the world right now I'm sure inzite can vouch for this. $2k CAD for a rare knife is like chump change compared to the $3M price tags on homes, some of which are nothing special.


----------



## wind88

Tosho's pricing used to be all over the place.

I remember when I bought my Kono HD2 180mm petty, it was actually priced $25 CAD less than the 150mm.


----------



## fatboylim

fatboylim said:


> Early reports so I might update as I get to know the Kato.



A quick follow up comment on the Kato KU nakiri 180mm.

I think I can define what makes the feedback so good with the Kato:
The feel on the chopping board is emensely satisfying. The sharpness glides into the food, followed by the weight accelarating through the produce. When it hits the chopping board it almost echos the impact back through the knife handle... in short addictively enjoyable. 

I think this is the definition of feedback. Perhaps honyaki owners with Katos could compare. 

Sorry if the review sounds cheesey...

Also, I've never enjoyed making potatoes into French fries more!

I just received my Kato Workhorse 180 Gyuto so some comparisons to follow.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Huh!? My kato nakiri is sharp, has a ton of mass, is long and flat and makes quick work of veggies. Kinda like a wrecking ball that goes through a building. It's just a tool, a real nice tool.


----------



## Badgertooth

fatboylim said:


> A quick follow up comment on the Kato KU nakiri 180mm.
> 
> I think I can define what makes the feedback so good with the Kato:
> The feel on the chopping board is emensely satisfying. The sharpness glides into the food, followed by the weight accelarating through the produce. When it hits the chopping board it almost echos the impact back through the knife handle... in short addictively enjoyable.
> 
> I think this is the definition of feedback. Perhaps honyaki owners with Katos could compare.
> 
> Sorry if the review sounds cheesey...
> 
> Also, I've never enjoyed making potatoes into French fries more!
> 
> I just received my Kato Workhorse 180 Gyuto so some comparisons to follow.



Nah, I'm with you. There is an subjective, tactile element that is so important to the experience. And I think this is well articulated


----------



## XooMG

> I just received my Kato Workhorse 180 Gyuto so some comparisons to follow.


Hope it does not disappoint.


----------



## fatboylim

XooMG said:


> Hope it does not disappoint.



It looks great XooMG and I'll give it a little time before gathering my thoughts.


----------



## Mute-on

fatboylim said:


> It looks great XooMG and I'll give it a little time before gathering my thoughts.



You got one?! Congratulations!!

I predict you will like it a LOT!

Cheers 

J


----------



## Badgertooth

Erm.. am I seeing right?! Is that a monster kikuryu chukabocho on JNS IG?


----------



## lagrangeL2

Saw that too badger. If its not a custom order...then I'm wondering how many people will be placing that order at the same time.


----------



## wind88

I think it'e Toyoma. It looks gigantic


----------



## aboynamedsuita

It looks like the back side of Toyama with noborikoi kanji &#26119;&#39881;


----------



## Badgertooth

Still. That'd be one hell of a knife.


----------



## lagrangeL2

Did anyone get an email for the recent JNS IG?


----------



## pjotr

Patience... public holiday in Denmark today!


----------



## inzite

Badgertooth said:


> Still. That'd be one hell of a knife.



yeah kasumi one's choil shot looks impressive, the height of a full size cleaver but with a paper thin hard edge, must be a great cutter.


----------



## wind88

I guess this Toyoma will join the JNS Kato/Shig lottery.


----------



## preizzo

All ready for it!! That petty and 180 mm gyuto will be mine!! &#128525; &#128525;


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Where do you see all this?


----------



## wind88

JNS instagram.


----------



## ynot1985

Is that a petty? It's cute how he can't fit all the kanji on it


----------



## preizzo

Parer sorry


----------



## DamageInc

Seems like the gyuto and the parer came and went. Anybody got the newsletter? I haven't received one.


----------



## tgfencer

I suspect Maxim had added the item info to the website, but that they haven't actually been put up for sale yet.


----------



## DamageInc

Maybe. If that's the case, heads up.


----------



## jacko9

I keep waiting for the email which arrives at either 5:00 AM or 1:00 AM our time.


----------



## Omega

Dude what is with these wild JNS Email times. We went 9 months of everything being in a 4am-7am window, and then the past three have been all over the place.


----------



## fatboylim

Omega said:


> Dude what is with these wild JNS Email times. We went 9 months of everything being in a 4am-7am window, and then the past three have been all over the place.



Maybe but remember it's a one man business so real life will get in the way! Also, new house and all...


----------



## Eitan78

That was by far the fastest sale I've seen, congrats to the new owners!


----------



## Omega

fatboylim said:


> Maybe but remember it's a one man business so real life will get in the way! Also, new house and all...



Oh dude yeah- not trying to be critical of Maxim. He can do whatever he wants. I just meant that it's difficult to predict


----------



## aboynamedsuita

I think in fairness Maksim may send emails at various times as not everyone lives in the same timezone.


----------



## Omega

I'm certainly happy to not need to sit awake at 3am waiting for a shot at these


----------



## fatboylim

Omega said:


> I'm certainly happy to not need to sit awake at 3am waiting for a shot at these



More luck to you Omega! By the way I almost bought your Masamoto KS 30 minutes before you on another forum BST. But I was paring back and hoped one of us would get lucky. Glad it was you!


----------



## Omega

Dude I feel you- his post went up at 11:35am. and I had a PM to him by 11:38. Before he replied 10 minutes later, there were two more people behind me in line. It was a close call.


----------



## inzite

hehe happy for those that got what they wanted! its a battle everytime!


----------



## Choppin

That 80mm parer looks sweet.. congrats to the winner


----------



## inzite

Choppin said:


> That 80mm parer looks sweet.. congrats to the winner



haha i never trust myself with in hand cutting let alone something as fierce as a kato lol!


----------



## Choppin

Haha good point. Also the tip looks quite pointy, I would be bleeding before 30 seconds with that thing...


----------



## jacko9

I really shouldn't complain as I'm an old guy I'm awake at all hours and I did get a 210mm Kato Workhorse (which I love).


----------



## Brady686

Managed to get my hands on a 240 kasumi standard, what a great cutter, edge retention isn't what I expected to be honest but not a big deal


----------



## mikedtran

I think this is just a function of anything white #2 knife with a thin edge. I would say it is at least up there with my top white #2 for edge retention, which still doesn't say much ahahah



Brady686 said:


> Managed to get my hands on a 240 kasumi standard, what a great cutter, edge retention isn't what I expected to be honest but not a big deal


----------



## kiso

Damn, saw the JNS email on the 210 kasumis and went straight there and they were gone while I was trying to checkout. You guys are so fast.


----------



## StephenYu

My card didn't went through and the next minute its gone...


----------



## Moooza

Were they workhorses?


----------



## Omega

Yup. 210 kasumi WH.


----------



## labor of love

Lol


----------



## jacko9

LOL When I purchased my 210 Workhorse, my PayPal account was giving me trouble so, I tried a credit card and that was also a problem related to my PayPal
account so I had to use another credit card all the time wondering if the knife would still be there. I even email Maskin thinking that the system was having a problem but the second card went through. Talk about a stressful 10 minutes at 5:AM


----------



## mikedtran

Anyone catch the Kato from CK?


----------



## Badgertooth

Sh*t... no, just seen the email


----------



## mikedtran

It was only the 240mm Standard right?


----------



## jimcrom

Just a standard 240 with a wenge handle.


----------



## mikedtran

jimcrom said:


> Just a standard 240 with a wenge handle.



Anyone see stock - was it one or two?


----------



## dwalker

Three


----------



## mikedtran

dwalker said:


> Three



You get one?


----------



## dwalker

I wish. I was all over it and watching closely. Had to get the kid in the shower and when I checked back they had come and gone. I was away 8 minutes tops.


----------



## zo0316

How did you know that they were going to be released today?


----------



## dwalker

CKTG forum


----------



## zo0316

Ah, Thanks


----------



## Chicagohawkie

They lasted about a minute, mark gave a heads up on the forum about and hour and a half before he listed them. Am curious to know if he had received any others specifically damascus.


----------



## Sharpchef

Chicagohawkie said:


> They lasted about a minute, mark gave a heads up on the forum about and hour and a half before he listed them. Am curious to know if he had received any others specifically damascus.



Here are some damascus ones:

https://www.knifemerchant.com/products.asp?manufacturerID=328

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## dwalker

Sharpchef said:


> Here are some damascus ones:
> 
> https://www.knifemerchant.com/products.asp?manufacturerID=328
> 
> Greets Sebastian.



No 240s. I passed on the 210s.......your welcome.


----------



## Anton

First time I hear about Knife Merchant. Anybody tried them?


----------



## khashy

Have a 210 and would have loved a 240.

Thank you very much Sebastian, fingers crossed on my order of a 180


----------



## jacko9

Anybody with experience with "knifemerchant"? In stock Kato knives?


----------



## mikedtran

I placed an order through PayPal. I think their stock is off though as you can add 10+ of each knife...


----------



## jacko9

mikedtran said:


> I placed an order through PayPal. I think their stock is off though as you can add 10+ of each knife...



Perhaps they cornered the "worlds supply" of Kato Damascus knives ;-)


----------



## Anton

Not holding by breath


----------



## MontezumaBoy

All "Knife Merchant" (San Diego) questions - I work around the corner from these guys and have been over to them / bought (in person) a bunch O' stuff ... no knives though as it has been more checking them out.

PM if you want me to drop in and see what this is all about ...

TjA


----------



## Badgertooth

Hmmm... ordered but suspect I'm about 1000th in the queue


----------



## Chicagohawkie

I suspect this isn't happeneing. Pricing looks like 4 years ago.


----------



## MontezumaBoy

Hi All,

I'll stop in there in the AM to check to see if this offer is legit or not. Will get back to everyone here ... 

Reminder to everyone that I am still looking for DT Damascus Stainless (my very own "Kato") but I am not inferring that this would help anyone's individual cause - since that would just be rude ;-) ....



MontezumaBoy said:


> All "Knife Merchant" (San Diego) questions - I work around the corner from these guys and have been over to them / bought (in person) a bunch O' stuff ... no knives though as it has been more checking them out.
> 
> PM if you want me to drop in and see what this is all about ...
> 
> TjA


----------



## lagrangeL2

After a quick search, one of the youtubers has a line with Knifemerchant.com. 

Some guy named hiroyuki terada.


----------



## jacko9

Chicagohawkie said:


> I suspect this isn't happeneing. Pricing looks like 4 years ago.



What do you have to lose if they are in stock?


----------



## jacko9

I ordered the 210 Damascus Kato and received an email saying that my credit card will be processed. I guess I'll wait and see.


----------



## loopback

I also placed an order for a 180 and 210 (11:33AM Pacific). Their business is M-F, so I expect most of us will be getting "Sorry ..." e-mails tomorrow.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

jacko9 said:


> What do you have to lose if they are in stock?



Playfully I ordered one of each! As soon as I saw the message. Ya never know, ha ha!


----------



## jacko9

Chicagohawkie said:


> Playfully I ordered one of each! As soon as I saw the message. Ya never know, ha ha!



I ordered one and now I'm hoping that they don't have them (after I realized how much money I just spent) Oh Well!


----------



## Badgertooth

jacko9 said:


> I ordered one and now I'm hoping that they don't have them (after I realized how much money I just spent) Oh Well!



Ditto.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

I'm not gonna complain about getting a kato for under current market value!


----------



## khashy

Chicagohawkie said:


> I'm not gonna complain about getting a kato for under current market value!



Yup. Fingers crossed they'll deliver


----------



## jacko9

They must have a very large inventory if they deliver to all interested parties that have expressed interest. I had understood that Kato was not going to produce any more Damascus knives. Could this be the last of that type on the market?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

I will be shocked if even 1 ships.


----------



## Anton

Yup

It will be like a very sad Christmas morning... as in you wake up and there's nothing much under the tree


----------



## lagrangeL2

I'm willing to bet that they have 2-3 of each, but no more than that.


----------



## Moooza

There we go, all changed to unavailable.


----------



## jacko9

Well I guess we cleaned out their inventory unfortunately, I procrastinated way too long before I hit the buy in my cart! Oh well, I might save several hundred dollars tomorrow ;-)


----------



## inzite

Moooza said:


> There we go, all changed to unavailable.



the suspense!


----------



## mikedtran

Very much so. Has anyone seen a Damascus kato nakiri/santoku before?


----------



## jacko9

I am wondering if we are having a failure to communicate with this supplier?


----------



## inzite

mikedtran said:


> Very much so. Has anyone seen a Damascus kato nakiri/santoku before?



cktg sold dammy nakiri before and its on youtube.


----------



## Badgertooth

mikedtran said:


> Very much so. Has anyone seen a Damascus kato nakiri/santoku before?



Never seen a Dammy santoku, just a little Kasumi santoku


----------



## lagrangeL2

Same Badger.

If I had to choose, it'd be one of those 2.

Also, the Katos on the site say unavailable now.

If....we're dreaming....maybe we ALL got one! :biggrin:


----------



## Chicagohawkie

mikedtran said:


> Very much so. Has anyone seen a Damascus kato nakiri/santoku before?



4 years ago! And at those prices! Why I think it's kinda fishy. All these could be sold at twice the current price!


----------



## Omega

Definitely can't wait to hear how this all resolves. 

Can't imagine what the shop owners will think when they get in today


----------



## Sharpchef

As i told you this, you might imagine what i think of kato knives...... ????? I don`t buy them anymore..... I told you all, hope it works out for you, and so on........
So i don`t like profit, otherwise i would have bought them all.... and sell them later... ...

And i really don`t understand why you don`t find them yourselfs.... I just googled Kato knives, and there was it... Even this is an USA Dealer.... ?

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## Anton

Sharpchef said:


> As i told you this, you might imagine what i think of kato knives...... ????? I don`t buy them anymore..... I told you all, hope it works out for you, and so on........
> So i don`t like profit, otherwise i would have bought them all.... and sell them later... ...
> 
> And i really don`t understand why you don`t find them yourselfs.... I just googled Kato knives, and there was it... Even this is an USA Dealer.... ?
> 
> Greets Sebastian.



we are just havin fun, Sebastian


----------



## Sharpchef

Anton said:


> we are just havin fun, Sebastian



This is good! ... Hope you enjoy what you get.

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## MontezumaBoy

Ok Gentlemen & Ladies (?) 

Good news is Kato's have been spotted & I even touched a 210 ... Magnificent work ...

Bad news is you all are crazy & have destroyed what little stock they actually had ... and many will get an email saying "sorry but no stock is left" ... 

Very nice people whom were overwhelmed (to say the least) by the amount of attention &, unfortunately, orders received for these blades.

FWIW - they also know full well that their prices were "very, very good" but they have always strived to "supply the local chef industry with the best they can find at the most reasonable prices". Like I said very cool & good people.

I think they likely had one of each but I only really checked out the 210 ... very, very pretty craftsmanship to say the least.

Owner is hoping to get more (some day) but these were 2+ years in the working ...

Please stop PM'ing me now ...

Tom

PS Just the messenger here ...


----------



## mikedtran

I just got off the phone with them as well. They seem like an awesome bunch and said they are sorting through the orders this morning and need a couple hours and will have it sorted. 

They let me know they actually also had the white #2 in stock about a month ago and those sold quite quickly. 

This Damascus stock has also been sitting for about a month now. It sounded like they had 2 of most items.


----------



## tgfencer

This has become most entertaining! I assume I was much to late to the party (in a theater at the time) but whoever gets them is in for a treat. Whether or not you think Kato knives are the best cutters or have the best grind or are worth the price, his damascus is pretty unreal in person in my opinion.


----------



## loopback

Yes, this has been an exciting and suspenseful 24 hours. Good luck to the "winner(s);" hopefully it is someone on KKF.


----------



## lagrangeL2

MontezumaBoy said:


> Ok Gentlemen & Ladies (?)
> 
> Good news is Kato's have been spotted & I even touched a 210 ... Magnificent work ...
> 
> Bad news is you all are crazy & have destroyed what little stock they actually had ... and many will get an email saying "sorry but no stock is left" ...
> 
> Very nice people whom were overwhelmed (to say the least) by the amount of attention &, unfortunately, orders received for these blades.
> 
> FWIW - they also know full well that their prices were "very, very good" but they have always strived to "supply the local chef industry with the best they can find at the most reasonable prices". Like I said very cool & good people.
> 
> I think they likely had one of each but I only really checked out the 210 ... very, very pretty craftsmanship to say the least.
> 
> Owner is hoping to get more (some day) but these were 2+ years in the working ...
> 
> Please stop PM'ing me now ...
> 
> Tom
> 
> PS Just the messenger here ...



Appreciate the assist Monte. Yah we heathens might've gave them a bit of a start. :biggrin:


----------



## loopback

I received notice from the shop confirming that the 210 was sold before I placed my order. Has anyone gotten confirmation on the 210?


----------



## mikedtran

loopback said:


> I received notice from the shop confirming that the 210 was sold before I placed my order. Has anyone gotten confirmation on the 210?



I have not received either yet. What time did you place your order?

When I spoke with them they said they would go through the orders in chronological order.


----------



## valgard

this thread is popcorn worthy


----------



## loopback

mikedtran said:


> I have not received either yet. What time did you place your order?
> 
> When I spoke with them they said they would go through the orders in chronological order.



The e-mail confirmation came in @ 11:33AM Pacific.


----------



## mikedtran

loopback said:


> The e-mail confirmation came in @ 11:33AM Pacific.



Pretty fast on the draw - I placed an order for one of each so maybe I'll get lucky on the Nakiri or Santoku.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Well, I got nothing! Ha Ha! And I saw the posting literally a minute after it went up. If they got 2 of each then that represents the biggest Damascus order I've ever seen! The previous big order of Damascus was when mark got 6 at to go about a year and a half ago.


----------



## mikedtran

I can say I didn't get a gyuto or a nakiri....


----------



## mikedtran

Chicagohawkie said:


> Well, I got nothing! Ha Ha! And I saw the posting literally a minute after it went up. If they got 2 of each then that represents the biggest Damascus order I've ever seen! The previous big order of Damascus was when mark got 6 at to go about a year and a half ago.



Also I think I was wrong on it was 2 of each, it was 1-2 of each. Still they got at least 5 if not 6 damascus so it is quite the order.


----------



## TheCaptain

Well I will confess to going for a 210 gyuto and of course, a Nakiri. Haven't received the "we're sorry" email yet but I'm not holding my breath.

Sigh. Oh well, actually want a regular blade more than a dammy so maybe it's for the best.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Well if your time stamp is after 11:20 then you get nothing! At least that's what I was told!


----------



## mikedtran

Chicagohawkie said:


> Well if your time stamp is after 11:20 then you get nothing! At least that's what I was told!



Damn us KKFers are fast!

Whoever got the 180mm Gyuto...that thing is a rare piece.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Ha! It's all good! I really don't need anymore katos anyway! That dammy nakiri would have been nice to round out my dammy 210 and 240...... but the KU Nakiri I got is a piece of glory!


----------



## inzite

Chicagohawkie said:


> Well if your time stamp is after 11:20 then you get nothing! At least that's what I was told!



if thats the case looks like i wont be getting it lol but i shall wait for the official decline haha


----------



## jacko9

Well I got a call from David this morning while I was playing golf and he called to confirm my 210 Gyuto purchase but, I had a change of heart and told him that I would pass and that he could sell it to one of you folks on the waiting list. He was very pleasant to talk with and after I hung up I immediately shanked a chip shot and thought crap perhaps I just made a big mistake ;-(


----------



## TheCaptain

Just got off the phone with Megan from the Knife Merchant...

...



...


...


I got a Nakiri!!! Whoot Whoot!!!

Too bad I'm at work, can't jump and scream. Feel like I won the fricking lottery. I will FINALLY get to try a Kato Nakiri.

She was so apologetic that they couldn't ship the gyuto, but I DON'T CARE and told her how excited I was!!!

That is all folks.


----------



## valgard

TheCaptain said:


> Just got off the phone with Megan from the Knife Merchant...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> I got a Nakiri!!! Whoot Whoot!!!
> 
> Too bad I'm at work, can't jump and scream. Feel like I won the ficking lottery. I will FINALLY get to try a Kato Nakiri.
> 
> She was so apologetic that they couldn't ship the gyuto, but I DON'T CARE and told her how excited I was!!!
> 
> That is all folks.


:doublethumbsup:
congrats Captain!!!


----------



## inzite

TheCaptain said:


> Just got off the phone with Megan from the Knife Merchant...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> I got a Nakiri!!! Whoot Whoot!!!
> 
> Too bad I'm at work, can't jump and scream. Feel like I won the fricking lottery. I will FINALLY get to try a Kato Nakiri.
> 
> She was so apologetic that they couldn't ship the gyuto, but I DON'T CARE and told her how excited I was!!!
> 
> That is all folks.



woo congrats! just checked with megan and i didnt get the nakiri but all good, another time!


----------



## TheCaptain

Thanks Val! I know I shouldn't be celebrating until the knife was in my hand, but damn! She was even apologizing for the stock handle which comes with the knife. (does little happy dance)


----------



## Anton

Talk about putting a storefront on the map... At least their good deed of passing these Kato's at actual value and not market value should, hopefully, return in additional traffic for their store.


----------



## MontezumaBoy

lagrangeL2 said:


> Appreciate the assist Monte. Yah we heathens might've gave them a bit of a start. :biggrin:



You have no idea ... I was at their door when it opened (slightly early) and the very first thing one of the sale / floor people said was "I hope you are not here about the Kato's" ... I said "Yes but No" then explained to them what had happened over the weekend on a certain web site ... he got the owner and we chatted ... then the knives came out just to "show me" - they were locked away (& these guys have a lot of other stock that isn't) ...

They were a bit shell shocked (to say the least) ... Super cool people (luckily they at least new my name from purchasing there so that helped a little bit) and I tried to explain the Kato disease/psychosis (on KKF in terms of "Kato Alerts") to them so they would be better aware in the future ...

Glad to see they have since followed up - from what I can see they seem to have a very good relationship with Kato-san and are extremely respective of him and his knives ...


----------



## Anton

MontezumaBoy said:


> Ok Gentlemen & Ladies (?)
> 
> Good news is Kato's have been spotted & I even touched a 210 ... Magnificent work ...
> 
> Bad news is you all are crazy & have destroyed what little stock they actually had ... and many will get an email saying "sorry but no stock is left" ...
> 
> Very nice people whom were overwhelmed (to say the least) by the amount of attention &, unfortunately, orders received for these blades.
> 
> FWIW - they also know full well that their prices were "very, very good" but they have always strived to "supply the local chef industry with the best they can find at the most reasonable prices". Like I said very cool & good people.
> 
> I think they likely had one of each but I only really checked out the 210 ... very, very pretty craftsmanship to say the least.
> 
> Owner is hoping to get more (some day) but these were 2+ years in the working ...
> 
> Please stop PM'ing me now ...
> 
> Tom
> 
> PS Just the messenger here ...



Tom - very nice of you to drop by and the feedback. 
thanks!


----------



## MontezumaBoy

Really cool people Anton ... you don't see it often (very Jon Broida like in that respect) and they way the owner talked of Kato-San and his art/health/family/etc. was pretty incredible. He is also very much into helping the local chef community (pricing) so I was very impressed.



Anton said:


> Tom - very nice of you to drop by and the feedback.
> thanks!


----------



## jacko9

When I spoke to Megan and David today they indicated that they wanted to get quality knives into the hands of cooks and when I cancelled my 210mm Gyuto they were very pleased that they could fulfill another customers request. If I had been earlier and was able to get the 240mm I would have gone ahead with the purchase but I really don't need two 210mm Kato's and a 210 Konosuke Blue#2 Fujiyama (and two 240mm Gyuto's) as a home cook.


----------



## tgfencer

Hah yeah I get a call just now and I was told I was 14th in line for the 210 gyuto. Store lady told me they were overwhelmed by the response and had never heard of KKF.. I laughed and explained it was a forum of kitchen knife nuts and she sounded excited by it and promised to check it out. Seem like super nice folks! 

Also, I apparently got the santoku...

(P.S. Whoever passed on this knife originally, please make yourself known to me either here or via PM.)


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Wow! Congrats to all! This is truly one in a million!


----------



## mikedtran

tgfencer said:


> Hah yeah I get a call just now and I was told I was 14th in line for the 210 gyuto. Store lady told me they were overwhelmed by the response and had never heard of KKF.. I laughed and explained it was a forum of kitchen knife nuts and she sounded excited by it and promised to check it out. Seem like super nice folks!
> 
> Also, I apparently got the santoku...
> 
> (P.S. Whoever passed on this knife originally, please make yourself known to me either here or via PM.)



Looks like they had two Santokus as I got one as well. =D


----------



## fatboylim

TheCaptain said:


> Just got off the phone with Megan from the Knife Merchant...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> I got a Nakiri!!! Whoot Whoot!!!
> 
> Too bad I'm at work, can't jump and scream. Feel like I won the fricking lottery. I will FINALLY get to try a Kato Nakiri.
> 
> She was so apologetic that they couldn't ship the gyuto, but I DON'T CARE and told her how excited I was!!!
> 
> That is all folks.



You are more than worthy of it Capt! Glad you got one


----------



## jacko9

tgfencer said:


> Hah yeah I get a call just now and I was told I was 14th in line for the 210 gyuto. Store lady told me they were overwhelmed by the response and had never heard of KKF.. I laughed and explained it was a forum of kitchen knife nuts and she sounded excited by it and promised to check it out. Seem like super nice folks!
> 
> Also, I apparently got the santoku...
> 
> (P.S. Whoever passed on this knife originally, please make yourself known to me either here or via PM.)



Did you get the 210mm Gyuto today? I spoke with David this morning when he called to confirm my purchase and decided to pass on the knife. If you got that one - good for you!

Jack


----------



## Badgertooth

Weirdly enough, I have heard of them before from a guy at a barbecue who was super stoked about getting his Shun from them as they cost about $350 here at the one store in the whole country that sells em. It's nice to hear they're good folk. We should extend them every courtesy & welcome if they sign up as vendors


----------



## tgfencer

TheCaptain said:


> Just got off the phone with Megan from the Knife Merchant...
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> I got a Nakiri!!! Whoot Whoot!!!
> 
> Too bad I'm at work, can't jump and scream. Feel like I won the fricking lottery. I will FINALLY get to try a Kato Nakiri.
> 
> She was so apologetic that they couldn't ship the gyuto, but I DON'T CARE and told her how excited I was!!!
> 
> That is all folks.



Glad you finally snagged one! Been waiting for you to get your hands on one for what feels like ages now. Also, I can finally stop feeling the compulsion to sell you one of the two I own...


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Congrats to all, especially the cap'n you wanted a Kato nakiri and you got a unicorn Kato nakiri


----------



## TheCaptain

Thanks guys. I'm thrilled beyond belief. To be honest I probably don't deserve this but will not complain. Still looking for a workhorse so if you get tired of yours please keep me in mind.


----------



## Anton

TheCaptain said:


> Thanks guys. I'm thrilled beyond belief. To be honest I probably don't deserve this but will not complain. Still looking for a workhorse so if you get tired of yours please keep me in mind.



If you still feel that way once you get it,let me know, pretty please, I'll help you out.


----------



## mikedtran

TheCaptain said:


> Thanks guys. I'm thrilled beyond belief. To be honest I probably don't deserve this but will not complain. Still looking for a workhorse so if you get tired of yours please keep me in mind.



So happy for you! It is always great to get those knives you have been hunting for so long.


----------



## ynot1985

I'm kicking myself that I have been on and off kkf the last few weeks, completely missed this new lot of stuff.. congrats to all those who nabbed some unicorns .. hope these come up more often


----------



## Sharpchef

I`am happy that i could help you!

Enjoy the knives.....

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## TheCaptain

Sebastian - I did mean to say thanks earlier, still in a bit of shock. FWIW search engines work differently depending on physical location and, to some extent, what it's "learned" from the user. I've googled kato knives seven different ways to sunday and this site never came up. 

So seriously, my thanks!


----------



## Chicagohawkie

5 210 kato standards arriving mid next week at to go.


----------



## ewebb10

So are katos really the big fat Oprah **** that everyone makes them out to be? I mean will I put down my Toyama or kono if I buy one? Or is it just the brand to have right now?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

You get a storied swordmaker with 50 years of experience making your knife and at 500 bucks, maybe worth trying out. Everyone's opinion may very, but for me I'll take one of his over much of what's available today!


----------



## Badgertooth

ewebb10 said:


> So are katos really the big fat Oprah **** that everyone makes them out to be? I mean will I put down my Toyama or kono if I buy one? Or is it just the brand to have right now?



Nah, they're rubbish, leave em to us.


----------



## Anton

They are worst


----------



## Omega

Definitely awful. Too much headache to pursue. Seem expensive. I'd just let other people fight about them


----------



## Mucho Bocho

Kato suck. I hate the five that I own. Freaking rubbish


----------



## labor of love

ewebb10 said:


> So are katos really the big fat Oprah **** that everyone makes them out to be? I mean will I put down my Toyama or kono if I buy one? Or is it just the brand to have right now?



I owned 3. They weren't for me. But that doesn't mean much. Watch some YouTube videos, it might help you decide if kato is something you would be really interested in.


----------



## Choppin

labor of love said:


> I owned 3. They weren't for me. But that doesn't mean much. Watch some YouTube videos, it might help you decide if kato is something you would be really interested in.



What was the issue? Weight, grind?


----------



## labor of love

Choppin said:


> What was the issue? Weight, grind?


Sorta, the way in which the weight was distributed didn't jibe with me. Excellent knives for the right person.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral

labor of love said:


> I owned 3. They weren't for me. But that doesn't mean much. Watch some YouTube videos, it might help you decide if kato is something you would be really interested in.



Same thing here. Too heavy for a gyuto and the balance didn't help. I like the nakiri though.


----------



## XooMG

Liked mine, but sold it because someone else wanted it more.

I've considered buying another, but probably not in the current market with the frenzy and highish prices.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Kato is elderly now, we will miss him when he's retired. Get em while ya can.


----------



## ynot1985

I don't think he has any apprentice so once he quits, that's it I think


----------



## Wdestate

labor of love said:


> Sorta, the way in which the weight was distributed didn't jibe with me. Excellent knives for the right person.



this was also my opinion on these. Was fun to try and use a few but moved on from all of them. if this type of knife sounds like its in your strike zone though you will not be disappointed, they cut well.


----------



## Sillywizard

XooMG said:


> Liked mine, but sold it because someone else wanted it more.
> 
> I've considered buying another, but probably not in the current market with the frenzy and highish prices.



If you were to get another, there will likely always be someone who will want it more than you though!? &#128518;


----------



## Choppin

Chicagohawkie said:


> 5 210 kato standards arriving mid next week at to go.



Anyone here got lucky?


----------



## pd7077

Choppin said:


> Anyone here got lucky?



I was fortunate enough to get one. Ironically, my cousin was as well.


----------



## TheCaptain

Nope. Had one in my cart, hit complete, forgot to enter shipping phone number and by the time I went back and entered it they were gone. Less than 60 seconds.

I'm surprisingly ok with this. Have my eyes out for a Mizuno Tenrenjo instead.


----------



## Choppin

@pd7077 congrats, I got one as well... at least I think so! Got the confirmation email and CC was charged according to my bank 

@TheCaptain they sold really really fast, I guess 60sec is about right. I had to add it twice to my cart (it just disapeared the first time), thankfully all my info was in autofill so it took 10sec from there


----------



## Anton

How were these priced?


----------



## Choppin

Anton said:


> How were these priced?



500. Aparently with a non-stock octagonal handle - that's what the product photo showed at least, not sure it will ship like that


----------



## dwalker

Apparently they oversold by one. Somebody is going to be sad indeed.


----------



## Choppin

dwalker said:


> Apparently they oversold by one. Somebody is going to be sad indeed.



Yeah, I was the unlucky one, just got the email from Mark... can't believe this

At least the other buyers can rest assure their order is safe


----------



## pd7077

Choppin said:


> Yeah, I was the unlucky one, just got the email from Mark... can't believe this
> 
> At least the other buyers can rest assure their order is safe



Sorry to hear that man. Maybe try jumping on one of the Dois. The pics of those look gorgeous!


----------



## khashy

Choppin said:


> Yeah, I was the unlucky one, just got the email from Mark... can't believe this
> 
> At least the other buyers can rest assure their order is safe



Sorry to hear it mate. I know you were keen.

I would recommend putting a WTB on the forum. It is likely that you'll find someone that wants to part with their Kato. 

Don't underestimate the power of WTB


----------



## Choppin

It happens. Part of the chase I guess

Good point about the WTB, will do that!


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Great price on the kato 210. Hasn't changed in 2 years at to go!


----------



## StephenYu

Choppin said:


> Yeah, I was the unlucky one, just got the email from Mark... can't believe this
> 
> At least the other buyers can rest assure their order is safe



I guess they didn't just oversold by one...I feel you man


----------



## Choppin

StephenYu said:


> I guess they didn't just oversold by one...I feel you man



Clearly current e-commerce solutions aren't prepared for Kato-fever :rolleyes2:


----------



## Sillywizard

Choppin said:


> Clearly current e-commerce solutions aren't prepared for Kato-fever :rolleyes2:



&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;


----------



## fatboylim

So who got the latest Kato workhorse from JNS? I think there was a yo in there at 210mm!


----------



## ynot1985

I don't remember seeing a yo.. only saw 210 and 240 wa workhorses


----------



## Omega

Yeah I don't believe there were any yo. 

Chestnut wa 240
Magnolia or Ho wa 210

Prices were 600ish and 500ish respectively. I think a yo 210 would have ran more. Happy to be wrong though, and for there to be another yo Kato floating about.


----------



## ynot1985

I have not seen a yo kato on JNS for the last 2 and a bit years


----------



## Omega

Yeah, I've only ever seen one by digging deep on KKF or searching Google. I've never seen one for sale in a shop or on BST.


----------



## Choppin

Weird, I didn't get any email


----------



## 905870477

seems not many kato left...can not find it anywhere....


----------



## Anton

905870477 said:


> seems not many kato left...can not find it anywhere....



Old news


----------



## labor of love

You guys should stop napping, I'm staring at a 210mm kato instock that I don't even want.


----------



## fatboylim

Yup I let that one go too.


----------



## lagrangeL2

dunno if this is right, but did that last kato 210 have some banding on it?


----------



## Choppin

lagrangeL2 said:


> dunno if this is right, but did that last kato 210 have some banding on it?



I noticed the same, but I imagine it's some reflection only...


----------



## S-Line

labor of love said:


> You guys should stop napping, I'm staring at a 210mm kato instock that I don't even want.



Is it just me are the prices for those kato workhorses higher than they were before?


----------



## labor of love

Oh yeah. Prices are always going up. I owned 3 (2 240mm and 1 270mm) and I paid $400 for each one. Those were the good ole days.


----------



## Pensacola Tiger

labor of love said:


> Oh yeah. Prices are always going up. I owned 3 (2 240mm and 1 270mm) and I paid $400 for each one. Those were the good ole days.



The one I bought in July, 2013 cost me $460. Two months later the JNS price was $490. Yeah, those were the good old days. I also recall buying a BNIB 240 Shig for $400 on B/S/T.

Don't get me going on Carters.


----------



## S-Line

Yeah, must be nice.. I'd snatched them up too at $400 a pop. Almost $600 for a 210mm now, crazy seeing this type of inflation.


----------



## Anton

Pensacola Tiger said:


> The one I bought in July, 2013 cost me $460. Two months later the JNS price was $490. Yeah, those were the good old days. I also recall buying a BNIB 240 Shig for $400 on B/S/T.
> 
> Don't get me going on Carters.



Crazy ah 

Goes for most knives, Going back to the KF days it was even better. How about those KD's as rare as they were they would sell for Now Shig money


----------



## lagrangeL2

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Don't get me going on Carters.



You said it Big T. 

Btw, what are KF and KD?


----------



## S-Line

lagrangeL2 said:


> You said it Big T.
> 
> Btw, what are KF and KD?



The old knifeforums and Hattori KD.


----------



## Customfan

Good old days! :doublethumbsup:

If I knew then what I know now...


----------



## TheCaptain

Well if someone knows of a standard 210 out there somewhere not at crazy prices please let me know. I'd really like to see how it compares to the workhorse version (which yes, I did get at on BST at a higher than vendor price).


----------



## ynot1985

TheCaptain said:


> Well if someone knows of a standard 210 out there somewhere not at crazy prices please let me know. I'd really like to see how it compares to the workhorse version (which yes, I did get at on BST at a higher than vendor price).



Not to sound like a downer but after that thread in the off topics. The chances of finding any kato at non crazy price is very remote. Might be easier to borrow one from someone nearby to try instead if you only want to compare.


----------



## malexthekid

ynot1985 said:


> Not to sound like a downer but after that thread in the off topics. The chances of finding any kato at non crazy price is very remote. Might be easier to borrow one from someone nearby to try instead if you only want to compare.



Might get lucky. I believe the thread in the off topic forum was more referring to your shig yo-kitaji style collectable that are almost at the point of "name your price" desirability for some collectors


----------



## inzite

malexthekid said:


> Might get lucky. I believe the thread in the off topic forum was more referring to your shig yo-kitaji style collectable that are almost at the point of "name your price" desirability for some collectors



ugh... i would suggest you read again and type again...


----------



## malexthekid

If we are talking the BST thread then I have read it all, and know Kato gets a few mentions.

However my comment was based on what prices I have seen on the forums. My response was purely in the frame of that topic aka BST. If you are talking retail prices... Totally different if the are reasonable, I was purely doing a retail to BST comparison on what I have seen.


----------



## ynot1985

malexthekid said:


> Might get lucky. I believe the thread in the off topic forum was more referring to your shig yo-kitaji style collectable that are almost at the point of "name your price" desirability for some collectors



I am just stating facts from that topic.. prices are set by the market.. the most recent prices of katos on BST are 750USD for a standard 210 and 850 USD for a WH 210. These were sold within minutes with many on the waiting list if it fell through which seems to suggest the equilibrium price point for a 210 kato to be higher than this. I suppose the definition of crazy is subjective but as pointed out by the thread, if you want a rare knife, you will need to pay a premium for the privilege


----------



## malexthekid

What was the retail price for them? Happy to be wrong I don't study their prices just keep a reasonable eye hence my comment of comparison with my understanding of retail.

If I am way off then I guess I will be resigning myself to no Kato ever. Would like to try but personally don't see them as in the collectable paying more than 10%ish of retail for them


----------



## S-Line

I believe Maxim's last listing for a kato 210 wh was around $600~USD


----------



## malexthekid

Holy-sh!t-balls... my apologies to everyone I stand corrected and must have been confusing shig and kato prices or something in my mind.


----------



## labor of love

Yeah, kato workhorse 210mm(with ho wood handle) actually retails higher than shig kasumi 240mm now.


----------



## Eitan78

TheCaptain said:


> Well if someone knows of a standard 210 out there somewhere not at crazy prices please let me know. I'd really like to see how it compares to the workhorse version (which yes, I did get at on BST at a higher than vendor price).



Just got my WH yesterday 
Here is a quick comparison:

On the left
Kato Kasumi Gyuto 210 Workhorse 

Weight 199g
Length, overall 379mm 
Length of handle 145mm 
Length, handle to Tip 232mm 
Length, heel to Tip 217mm 
Heigh of blade at heel 47.8mm 
Width of spine at the handle 5.47mm 
Width of spine above the Heel 5mm 
Width of spine at the middle 2.7mm 
Width of spine at 1 cm before tip 1.3mm

On the right 
Kato Kasumi Gyuto 210 standard 

Weight 166g 
Length, overall 350mm 
Length of handle 135.1mm
Length, handle to Tip 215mm 
Length, heel to Tip 200mm 
Heigh of blade at heel 47.2mm 
Width of spine at the handle 4.81mm 
Width of spine above the Heel 4mm 
Width of spine at the middle 2.27mm 
Width of spine at 1 cm before tip

Workhorse choil:



Standard choil:


----------



## TheCaptain

Thanks for the detailed measurements Eitan78. 

I 100% acknowledge that every high end knife is made by hand so they are subject to variations. With this in mind when I first saw the difference in weight my mind immediately leapt to "Ahhh yes, it makes sense the grind would make that much of a difference" But further reading shows the workhorse is 17mm longer in blade length. 

So now I'm even more curious about how two of comparable length would compare. 

The quest continues!


----------



## Choppin

Very nice, Eitan! About two months ago I was digging the KKF archives looking for exactly this (then I sent you a message on Instagram...). I'm also receiving two 210s next week (std and WH). Will post the measurements here, should be interesting to see the variation.

@Captain the workhorse version usually run long, while the standard runs short. Apparently it works like that for Kato gyutos in every length. The two I'm about to receive are 203 and 217 long.


----------



## Eitan78

Choppin said:


> Very nice, Eitan! About two months ago I was digging the KKF archives looking for exactly this... I'm also receiving two 210s next week (std and WH). Will post the measurements here, should be interesting to see the variation.



Awesome!
Will be interesting to see the differences


----------



## TheCaptain

Choppin said:


> Very nice, Eitan! About two months ago I was digging the KKF archives looking for exactly this (then I sent you a message on Instagram...). I'm also receiving two 210s next week (std and WH). Will post the measurements here, should be interesting to see the variation.
> 
> @Captain the workhorse version usually run long, while the standard runs short. Apparently it works like that for Kato gyutos in every length. The two I'm about to receive are 203 and 217 long.



Thanks for the information - I didn't know that!


----------



## Eitan78

TheCaptain said:


> Thanks for the information - I didn't know that!



The 210 Damascus Standard is also 200mm long

KATO Gyuto Damascus standard 210mm

Weight 186g
Length, overall 353mm 
Length, handle to Tip 213mm 
Length, heel to Tip 200mm 
Heigh of blade at heel 46.4mm 
Width of spine at the handle 5.1mm 
Width of spine above the Heel 4.8mm 
Width of spine at the middle 2.89mm 
Width of spine at 1 cm before tip 1.05mm


----------



## Choppin

Eitan78 said:


> The 210 Damascus standard is also 200mm long



And yet the damascus is heavier right? That surprised me, but makes sense...


----------



## Eitan78

another unicorn just arrived today

Yoshiaki Fujiwara Kasumi Sujihiki 270mm

Weight 205g 
Length, overall 451mm 
Length, handle to Tip 288mm 
Length, heel to Tip 279mm
Length of handle 148mm 
Heigh of blade at heel 42.01mm 
Width of spine at the handle 5.21mm 
Width of spine above the Heel 4.91 
Width of spine at the middle 2.46mm 
Width of spine at 1 cm before tip 1mm


----------



## labor of love

Is that ootb?


Eitan78 said:


> another unicorn just arrived today
> 
> Yoshiaki Fujiwara Kasumi Sujihiki 270mm
> 
> Weight 205g
> Length, overall 451mm
> Length, handle to Tip 288mm
> Length, heel to Tip 279mm
> Length of handle 148mm
> Heigh of blade at heel 42.01mm
> Width of spine at the handle 5.21mm
> Width of spine above the Heel 4.91
> Width of spine at the middle 2.46mm
> Width of spine at 1 cm before tip 1mm
> 
> View attachment 36971
> View attachment 36972
> View attachment 36970
> View attachment 36973
> View attachment 36974


----------



## Eitan78

labor of love said:


> Is that ootb?



Ootb?


----------



## valgard

Eitan78 said:


> Ootb?



out of the box. 
@labor yes, that's a new knife


----------



## FoRdLaz

Eitan78 said:


> another unicorn just arrived today
> 
> Yoshiaki Fujiwara Kasumi Sujihiki 270mm



Where do you find all of these?? Clearly I'm looking in the wrong places!! Desperate to add some Katos to my collection but just can't find any around! Feel free to PM me about your secret supplier!!!


----------



## Panamapeet

FoRdLaz said:


> Where do you find all of these?? Clearly I'm looking in the wrong places!! Desperate to add some Katos to my collection but just can't find any around! Feel free to PM me about your secret supplier!!!



Not so secret: japanesenaturalstones.com.


----------



## FoRdLaz

Never in time for the JNS email. Always missing them!! But Eitan seems to be striking it lucky quite often - so thought he might have another "supplier"


----------



## Panamapeet

FoRdLaz said:


> Never in time for the JNS email. Always missing them!! But Eitan seems to be striking it lucky quite often - so thought he might have another "supplier"



He's just very very fast


----------



## Eitan78

FoRdLaz said:


> Never in time for the JNS email. Always missing them!! But Eitan seems to be striking it lucky quite often - so thought he might have another "supplier"



i can tell you but than i have to Kato...


----------



## StonedEdge

I feel that Eitan may actually be Kato...it's only a working theory tho


----------



## StonedEdge

Eitan78 said:


> i can tell you but than i have to Kato...


&#129315; well played good sir!


----------



## DamageInc

My katos in Giveaway forum.


----------



## jacko9

I haven't even seen a JNS email in a few months?


----------



## DamageInc

I think he sent a newsletter just before going on his Japan trip.


----------



## DamageInc




----------



## gic

shigs and kato gone in < 2 minutes


----------



## jacko9

LOL - I was one minute too late!


----------



## jacko9

There seems to be scalpers buying as fast as possible and then selling on another forum for a few hundred dollars more.


----------



## Barmoley

Hey just a week ago knife just like this one sold for $1200 plus shipping, buying from Maxim in the US would cost you $740, so clearly there are people who want these real bad and willing to pay extra for not having to stare at the computer, optimize their ordering process and fight over a few knives. Maxim said a few times he will not raise prices on these, so it is pretty fair in the sense that anyone can try to get one of these if one is quick enough.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Production is down to so few knives a month now. It’s almost impossible to get a new one these days. I don’t even try any longer.


----------



## KimBronnum

Do you know that literally - about production? I heard that both sons work there. I don’t know about their production, I just wonder.


----------



## jacko9

Both sons work at Shig but, as far as I know Kato is working alone and I understand at this time he is helping his elderly mother so I don't see a lot of work coming out of his shop.


----------



## Daizone

Isn’t Kato-san himself getting up there in age too? What is the average age most knife makers retire? I know I hear about many of them working for quite a long time.


----------



## jacko9

Yes he's the same age as me (almost 74 in a few months).


----------



## Anton

StonedEdge said:


> I feel that Eitan may actually be Kato...it's only a working theory tho


yup - he's got something going on


----------



## DitmasPork

Trying to wrap my head around why there's so much excitement and desire towards Kato knives. Valuations are quite high on B/S/T, they often vanish in minutes when available. 

I'm assuming that the primary reasons besides quality are slow production, makers reputation, etc.

I got mine probably around five years ago, when they weren't very difficult to come by. Don't get me wrong, I love my Kato, it's a wonderful knife with a ****-tonne of character. However, when in the kitchen, Kato's not always the first knife I grab—other knives I frequently use are Marko, Kochi, KS, and Mazaki, just depending on what my mood is, etc.


----------



## Anton

Subject has been beaten to death They are good knives no question, just not sure they are worth $1k. Probably a horrible analogy but remember the beanie babies craze in late 90’s, creating scarcity in the market and inspiring collectors to pay up to $5,000 for a plush toy that originally retailed for $5.


----------



## Godslayer

Anton said:


> Subject has been beaten to death They are good knives no question, just not sure they are worth $1k. Probably a horrible analogy but remember the beanie babies craze in late 90’s, creating scarcity in the market and inspiring collectors to pay up to $5,000 for a plush toy that originally retailed for $5.



Pretty much sums it up, my Ikeda petty is honestly a better cutter then my Kato one was, it lacks the Mystic sure, but as a tool katos are 2-2.5x more expensive then they should be.


----------



## Simonsimon

****, so close! Puls was so High. Almost got The 21 KU. Was In My basket [emoji26]Thought The 24 already went But it was hiding further down on The page. [emoji849]


----------



## bruce8088

Simonsimon said:


> ****, so close! Puls was so High. Almost got The 21 KU. Was In My basket [emoji26]Thought The 24 already went But it was hiding further down on The page. [emoji849]



you mean this? saw it on another forum.


----------



## preizzo

bruce8088 said:


> you mean this? saw it on another forum.


Wow.. You are a real lucky bastard.! I wish I could have only one kurouchi gyuto from Kato... For the moment I just have a western.. [emoji26][emoji26]


----------



## vMinh Nguyen

I'm a bit confused I'm a subscriber to the jns Kato/shig email list but I didn't get any email saying that these Kato kuruichi are available for purchase. What am I missing?


----------



## Daizone

These were not sold on JNS. Another seller had one 210 KU and one 240 KU for sale.


----------



## vMinh Nguyen

oh I see. thank you for the clarification.


----------



## ynot1985

preizzo said:


> Wow.. You are a real lucky bastard.! I wish I could have only one kurouchi gyuto from Kato... For the moment I just have a western.. [emoji26][emoji26]



You’re the lucky bastard .. Wanna trade [emoji23]?

I need that western kato


----------



## nevin

preizzo said:


> Wow.. You are a real lucky bastard.! I wish I could have only one kurouchi gyuto from Kato... For the moment I just have a western.. [emoji26][emoji26]



Damn Matteo!!! You have a true unicorn!!


----------



## Daizone

Heard from the BST thread recently Kato working with some blue steel more often. Anybody know any particular reason why or just because he feels like working with blue compared to the usual white I’ve seen in so many knives previously.


----------



## Simonsimon

Kato sword is up on jns


----------



## daddy yo yo

Simonsimon said:


> Kato sword is up on jns


That little cutie would make a nice steak knife...


----------



## Daizone

Okay who was the one who picked up the 340mm tamahagene?


----------



## Simonsimon

How much was it ?


----------



## Daizone

11.6k excluding VAT (14.6k including VAT)


----------



## Simonsimon

[emoji853]


----------



## F-Flash




----------



## vMinh Nguyen

F-Flash said:


>


I like the contrast between the slogan and the price tag on the tamahagene. I was 1 click away from buying it...and had to admit that it was not affordable for me.


----------



## lemeneid

At that price, you could get a kodachi from a mukansa. The price is just ridiculous.


----------



## echou

Now it's an $11k Sakimaru Takobiki...


----------



## Daizone

Yup basically a sword.
*Yoshiaki Fujiwara 365mm Tamahagane Watetsu SAKIMARU TAKOBIKI*


----------



## nutmeg

a $14K blade with such a ridiculously lazy finish..
Time is money.
14k means a perfect knife made with time and passion.
Kato chose to make a blade quickly with a finish that every young polisher would feel ashamed with.


----------



## nutmeg

I checked the pictures again, the knife hasn‘t been „finished“. Not sure it has even seen a Jnat.


----------



## nutmeg

nutmeg said:


> I checked the pictures again, the knife hasn‘t been „finished“. Not sure it has even seen a Jnat.


I was sriting about the yanagi. The Takobiki seems to be much cleaner.


----------



## DisconnectedAG

Can somebody educate me which Kato gets everyone this excited? I know of Yoshimi Kato, but this sounds like another one.


----------



## F-Flash

Kiyoshi kato, yoshiaki fujiwara.

From www.japanesenaturalstones.com

These beautiful knives are made by Mr. Kiyoshi Kato, born 1944 in Tokyo. He began swordsmith training in 1964, at the age of 20, and is currently a licensed sword smith. He now uses his incredible collection of very old, and difficult to obtain, Tamahagane steels to form his own sword masterpieces. 

He entered the field of knife making in 1977 by creating his first hunting and kitchen knives, and currently makes knives in his new Hokuto City workshop, found in the Yamanashi Prefecture.


----------



## lemeneid

nutmeg said:


> a $14K blade with such a ridiculously lazy finish..
> Time is money.
> 14k means a perfect knife made with time and passion.
> Kato chose to make a blade quickly with a finish that every young polisher would feel ashamed with.


I feel like I’m beating a dead horse with this, but at the price Kato tamahagane go for, people can just purchase real swords with full polishes and all the fittings. And the value of swords from sword smiths will appreciate in value greater over time if you want collectible value.

Kato is a really great knife maker, but he’s not a good sword smith IMO. His tamahagane is for knife nut suckers.


----------



## Corradobrit1

+


lemeneid said:


> I feel like I’m beating a dead horse with this, but at the price Kato tamahagane go for, people can just purchase real swords with full polishes and all the fittings. And the value of swords from sword smiths will appreciate in value greater over time if you want collectible value.
> 
> Kato is a really great knife maker, but he’s not a good sword smith IMO. His tamahagane is for knife nut suckers.


+1


----------



## Chicagohawkie

lemeneid said:


> I feel like I’m beating a dead horse with this, but at the price Kato tamahagane go for, people can just purchase real swords with full polishes and all the fittings. And the value of swords from sword smiths will appreciate in value greater over time if you want collectible value.
> 
> Kato is a really great knife maker, but he’s not a good sword smith IMO. His tamahagane is for knife nut suckers.


Get


lemeneid said:


> I feel like I’m beating a dead horse with this, but at the price Kato tamahagane go for, people can just purchase real swords with full polishes and all the fittings. And the value of swords from sword smiths will appreciate in value greater over time if you want collectible value.
> 
> Kato is a really great knife maker, but he’s not a good sword smith IMO. His tamahagane is for knife nut suckers.


When's the last Kato produced a sword?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Doesn't he market his swords under a different name? Thought thats what I read.


----------



## bahamaroot

Not very many Katos in this "Alert" thread.


----------



## Daizone

bahamaroot said:


> Not very many Katos in this "Alert" thread.


Well not sure how many knives have popped up. Anybody know if his output has decreased over the months recently?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Daizone said:


> Well not sure how many knives have popped up. Anybody know if his output has decreased over the months recently?


It's amazing to me that he still is producing knives. He's quite elderly.


----------



## Daizone

Chicagohawkie said:


> It's amazing to me that he still is producing knives. He's quite elderly.


I second this as well but I feel like there are a lot of elderly people in Japan still working doing very specialized work in many different fields not just knife making.


----------



## labor of love

Have you guys seen photos of him? He looks quite remarkable for his age.


----------



## ynot1985

labor of love said:


> Have you guys seen photos of him? He looks quite remarkable for his age.




you can say that for many asians lol


----------



## ynot1985

Daizone said:


> Well not sure how many knives have popped up. Anybody know if his output has decreased over the months recently?



He has had back issues for a long time now - at least a few years from all the sources that i have dealt with.

This is one of the many reasons that he no longer makes dammy Katos. To be fair, he doesn't make much of anything besides gyutos. 

from what I have been told- he makes 1 knife every 2-3 days is a rough estimate.


----------



## Gjackson98

ynot1985 said:


> He has had back issues for a long time now - at least a few years from all the sources that i have dealt with.
> 
> This is one of the many reasons that he no longer makes dammy Katos. To be fair, he doesn't make much of anything besides gyutos.
> 
> from what I have been told- he makes 1 knife every 2-3 days is a rough estimate.



Right on spot, I have received the exact same info


----------



## maxim

Ok need to clean up weird infos here  First of all 
Tamahagene Yanagi is much harder to make then sword, for Kato anyway, first of all because of the size thinner and hardness
Swords never made that hard as yanagi is, Kato use as much time for Yanagi then on sword as do all other sword makers 
I asked ones sword polisher for price to polish Yanagi Kato it was same price as big sword was, again because of hardness thickness and shape etc 
Also Tamahagene Kato uses is very old stock from his grand father that plays also in to the price and he finishes them only with Binsui, Kato is not a polisher 
Kato do still make Swords and they are for sale in Tokyo sword shop, he also have them in stock. So this (but he’s not a good sword smith IMO.) it is weird unless you have seen and handled his swords 

Second He still makes Damascus knives, he makes many single bevels still, many gyutos because of demand


----------



## Luftmensch

maxim said:


> Kato is not a polisher



+1

Since swords have been mentioned... I am sure there is some set of folk here who are into Nihonto. For those who arent (and I am only peripherally aware); polishing is a craft in its own right. Polishing is done by specialists and can take longer than forging the blade. To twist the proverb: "it takes a village"....

Bottom line, a master blacksmith doesnt immediately equate to a master polisher. For that matter, a master swordsmith doesnt equate to a master knifesmith and vice versa!


----------



## bahamaroot

Aren't you guys going to call out Maxim like you do everyone else that contradicts or disagrees with you?


----------



## nevin

Sword's hardness isn't uniform in the whole plane (page 3):
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3788/64685ec4e78c9d63973ce0cc916f44152aa0.pdf

The edge can go as hard as HRC 70 and gradually drop to HRC 40 or below.


----------



## echou

300mm Sakimaru Takobiki is up at JNS: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/yoshiaki-fujiwara-sakimaru-takobiki-300mm/


----------



## Andrew

echou said:


> 300mm Sakimaru Takobiki is up at JNS: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/yoshiaki-fujiwara-sakimaru-takobiki-300mm/


Was this available when you posted it? I'm bummed I missed it!


----------



## echou

Yeah, the purchase link was live when I posted. Sorry you missed it


----------



## Corradobrit1

Yes, it was live when I logged on to the store. Just a shame I'd never find a use for that style of JKnife


----------



## bkultra

Reminder... You can not link to active auctions


----------



## bm11

bkultra said:


> Reminder... You can not link to active auctions


Sorry about that, I missed that rule.


----------



## danemonji

a brand new 230mm blue steel santoku/gyuto style kato and selling under 800 usd in Japan...it's an ongoing auction (4 hours to go) so i can't link it.


----------



## Gregmega

Link was broken, but I gave it a shot


----------



## Gregmega

Someone has a sniper bid on it. Just threw about 250 at it to test the water and no way that sniper is leaving it on the table.


----------



## danemonji

Sniper bids are placed 5 minutes before closing so there is a window of opportunity to place another bid


----------



## Luftmensch

danemonji said:


> a brand new 230mm blue steel santoku/gyuto style kato and selling under 800 usd in Japan



Nice shape.

800 USD? Since it is a bid, I am sure it will climb higher!


----------



## danemonji

It sold for 1265$


----------



## Gregmega

danemonji said:


> Sniper bids are placed 5 minutes before closing so there is a window of opportunity to place another bid



Not on that site. Read the details


----------



## danemonji

what are the chances of finding a damascus kato (240 or 210) for sale in our community?And what would be the price of that?


----------



## F-Flash

I think you can find one if you offer enough money. Probably somewhere between 3-5k


----------



## danemonji

3-5k? wow that's crazy


----------



## lemeneid

danemonji said:


> what are the chances of finding a damascus kato (240 or 210) for sale in our community?And what would be the price of that?


pfffft, i only want a western Kato kikuryu damascus


----------



## minibatataman

danemonji said:


> 3-5k? wow that's crazy


Why would anyone let it go if not for a crazy amount of money though? It's not like it's easily replacable.


----------



## danemonji

When you need money on the short term for whatever reason....that's when people will sell for less than they imagine for. Otherwise why would anybody sell anything here


----------



## McMan

minibatataman said:


> Why would anyone let it go if not for a crazy amount of money though? It's not like it's easily replacable.


Because this is what you could grab once it's sold 
1--Isasmedjan
1-Dalman
1-Halcyon Forge
1-Marko 
1-Kippington Honyaki
1-Catcheside
...and this is assuming it sells for $3k.
If it sells for $5k, then add..
1-TJA
1-Haburn
OR
1-Mert
1-Raquin
OR
1-Comet
5-really nice dinners

Seriously, I could see why, if someone bought a Kato dammy back in the day for a song, then they might want to sell it to try a bunch of new makers (or perhaps, if they're a collector, with the hopes that these new makers' work will appreciate over time and be a better investment than the solitary Kato).


----------



## minibatataman

McMan said:


> Because this is what you could grab once it's sold
> 1--Isasmedjan
> 1-Dalman
> 1-Halcyon Forge
> 1-Marko
> 1-Kippington Honyaki
> 1-Catcheside
> ...and this is assuming it sells for $3k.
> If it sells for $5k, then add..
> 1-TJA
> 1-Haburn
> OR
> 1-Mert
> 1-Raquin
> OR
> 1-Comet
> 5-really nice dinners
> 
> Seriously, I could see why, if someone bought a Kato dammy back in the day for a song, then they might want to sell it to try a bunch of new makers (or perhaps, if they're a collector, with the hopes that these new makers' work will appreciate over time and be a better investment than the solitary Kato).


That's nice and all but you can't use 10 knives at once can you 
I'm not saying a Kato is better than all those, to some it is and to some it absolutely isn't.. which is my point I guess.. if you like it, why would you sell it for anything less than a stupid amount of money? But even your argument, you're talking about what you can buy IF sold for said stupid amount of money haha


----------



## Corradobrit1

Unicorns often sell around the $3K on KKF.... fairly regularly. I've yet to see a 210 or 240 Dammy in BST. The 240 will carry quite a premium over the 210 IMO as that is a more popular length. $3-5K depending on condition doesn't sound outrageous these days.


----------



## danemonji

I just checked BST and last damascus 210 sold for 2800 and it was brand new. If used or worse sharpened, the value would decrese dramatically.


----------



## minibatataman

danemonji said:


> I just checked BST and last damascus 210 sold for 2800 and it was brand new. If used or worse sharpened, the value would decrese dramatically.


Yea as crazy as it sounds, a 240 BNIB one would easily hit 5k. If there's someone willing to sell it, and someone willing to buy it, then why not?


----------



## Corradobrit1

danemonji said:


> I just checked BST and last damascus 210 sold for 2800 and it was brand new. If used or worse sharpened, the value would decrese dramatically.


Yeah, I remember that now. Must have blanked it out when I saw the price.


----------



## labor of love

This western Kato sold for $4k(I’m assuming) that wasn’t close to new so a bnib dammy I would think hits $5k pretty easy.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/fujiyamas-and-kato-workhorse-western.42293/


----------



## ynot1985

lemeneid said:


> pfffft, i only want a western Kato kikuryu damascus



They do exist [emoji23]. I only know of one. It’s in Australia


----------



## Corradobrit1

Here's a 210 wa. Absolute stunner. I think only Rader betters dammy finish
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxhDRLrAifR/


----------



## Luftmensch

danemonji said:


> If used or worse sharpened, the value would decrese dramatically.



Really? For this level of unicorn? 

So long as the knife had been well cared for I doubt the discount would be that large... Short of messing up the grind through amateur sharpening, severely chipping the edge or breaking the tip off from abuse, I am sure the price would be buoyed by enthusiasts capable of minor 'restoration'.


But heck... I'll put my hat in the ring. If there are any Kikuryu out there that have been used to slice a tomato once - I'll make a discounted offer


----------



## Corradobrit1

Luftmensch said:


> Really? For this level of unicorn?
> 
> So long as the knife had been well cared for I doubt the discount would be that large... Short of messing up the grind through amateur sharpening, severely chipping the edge or breaking the tip off from abuse, I am sure the price would be buoyed by enthusiasts capable of minor 'restoration'.
> 
> 
> But heck... I'll put my hat in the ring. If there are any Kikuryu out there that have been used to slice a tomato once - I'll make a discounted offer


Tomato? Do you know how acidic those things are? That is Kato abuse pure and simple


----------



## Luftmensch

Corradobrit1 said:


> Tomato? Do you know how acidic those things are? That is Kato abuse pure and simple



True... Let me extend the offer... I'll make a very fair price for any junk Kikuryu that have been in the same room as a tomato more than once. I will also consider Katos that were near citrus so long as they come in their original box with a saya.


----------



## Gregmega

ynot1985 said:


> They do exist [emoji23]. I only know of one. It’s in Australia



*picks up whole Australian continent like proverbial dinner table and flips it over


----------



## Nemo

Gregmega said:


> *picks up whole Australian continent like proverbial dinner table and flips it over


Let us know if you found any water under there. It's been pretty dry here [emoji16]


----------



## F-Flash

Talking of unicorns, if you could have just two knives for all eternity. 

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/yoshiaki-fujiwara-240mm-western-gyuto/

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.c...ki-fujiwara-shigefua-sakimaru-takobiki-315mm/


----------



## Luftmensch

Nemo said:


> Let us know if you found any water under there. It's been pretty dry here



... Also if you see some keys? I put them down somewhere and can't remember where.


----------



## Sharpchef

F-Flash said:


> Talking of unicorns, if you could have just two knives for all eternity.
> 
> https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/yoshiaki-fujiwara-240mm-western-gyuto/
> 
> https://www.japanesenaturalstones.c...ki-fujiwara-shigefua-sakimaru-takobiki-315mm/



I would change your opinion for this, because it was just a little overpriced  

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/yoshiaki-fujiwara-240mm-western-gyuto-figured-walnut-brass/

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## vMinh Nguyen

Sharpchef said:


> I would change your opinion for this, because it was just a little overpriced
> 
> https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/yoshiaki-fujiwara-240mm-western-gyuto-figured-walnut-brass/
> 
> Greets Sebastian.


i don't get what you're saying sebastian. the kato westerns aren't the same--the quoted one is a kikuryu and the one you refer to is a workhorse. what am i missing?


----------



## Corradobrit1

That subtle Kikuryu patternation is gorgeous.


----------



## Sharpchef

vMinh Nguyen said:


> i don't get what you're saying sebastian. the kato westerns aren't the same--the quoted one is a kikuryu and the one you refer to is a workhorse. what am i missing?



You don`t cut with kikisomething.. .You know.. It just looks like a bad polished kind of 2 bad steel cladding  . If a western kiki kato would be at 500 Dollar with that F&F it would be ok....  .

I am nearly 40 years old now, and my body my brain etc. are not longer as good as they are with 30 years.... So why pay for this old man`s (retirement is not a joke, it makes sence) medium class knifes prices like the shown ? They are much too high... Now they cost much more because the old man is for sure getting better every day.... So nice romantic feelings about knifes.... 


Greets Sebastian.


----------



## lemeneid

ynot1985 said:


> They do exist [emoji23]. I only know of one. It’s in Australia


Do they exist in integral forged bolster versions too??


----------



## Corradobrit1

Sharpchef said:


> I am nearly 40 years old now, and my body my brain etc. are not longer as good as they are with 30 years.... So why pay for this old man`s (retirement is not a joke, it makes sence) medium class knifes prices like the shown ? They are much too high... Now they cost much more because the old man is for sure getting better every day.... So nice romantic feelings about knifes....


Sorry but I completely disagree. Maybe its a cultural thing, with the West being more in tune with the concept of forced 'retirement' at 62-65, but there are plenty of examples of older Japanese gentlemen well into their 70's, forging knives with no obvious decrease in quality or passion. Its not like they are pounding away with a hammer by hand. They use power tools. Kiyoshi Kato looks great for his age. Shiraki is also in his 70's and apparently back at work after a short break. The Morihei line of soft iron clad TF's are forged by a 75 year old. The list goes on......

Romanticized maybe. But why shouldn't we celebrate someone who has dedicated a 50 year career in the pursuit of one goal, following generational traditions. These guys are a dying breed in todays society.


----------



## Sharpchef

Corradobrit1 said:


> Sorry but I completely disagree. Maybe its a cultural thing, with the West being more in tune with the concept of forced 'retirement' at 62-65, but there are plenty of examples of older Japanese gentlemen well into their 70's, forging knives with no obvious decrease in quality or passion. Its not like they are pounding away with a hammer by hand. They use power tools. Kiyoshi Kato looks great for his age. Shiraki is also in his 70's and apparently back at work after a short break. The Morihei line of soft iron clad TF's are forged by a 75 year old. The list goes on......



This is simple marketing... So they were not as good as they were young ? So what about Jiro ? Everybody believing things like this get fooled by the guys who sell the stuff. Sad but true. 
The same thing happens with KAI Shun, they promote with samurai tradition... Kato dealers (swordsmith old etc....) etc. nothing else... And i believed it too, but no more knifes that look like crap, cutting good but edge retention is not better then any Wüsthoff/Global etc... 
400 ok but 1200 right now no way...... B/S/T prices are a joke. 

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## vMinh Nguyen

Sharpchef said:


> This is simple marketing... So they were not as good as they were young ? So what about Jiro ? Everybody believing things like this get fooled by the guys who sell the stuff. Sad but true.
> The same thing happens with KAI Shun, they promote with samurai tradition... Kato dealers (swordsmith old etc....) etc. nothing else... And i believed it too, but no more knifes that look like crap, cutting good but edge retention is not better then any Wüsthoff/Global etc...
> 400 ok but 1200 right now no way...... B/S/T prices are a joke.
> 
> Greets Sebastian.


I see you now Sébastian, you were trying to make a joke. It would be funnier if what you say is true. Edge retention not Any better than wustof or global ? Lmao I'm no Kato fan boy - I prefer toyama - but after having used Kato for the past 5 years I can unequivocally say that this is false.


----------



## Migraine

What's with the influx of incessantly contrary posters lately?


----------



## Luftmensch

Sharpchef said:


> So why pay for this old man`s (retirement is not a joke, it makes sence) medium class knifes prices like the shown ?



Because they are still great knives? Because people do still value the skill it takes to become an artisan. Because people _do_ like the romance. So long as these people continue to hold the belief that these qualities are worth paying for, the price will be what it currently is...

... So rephrasing the old 'are Kato and Shigefusa over priced?' question is really just flogging a dead horse.



Corradobrit1 said:


> Sorry but I completely disagree. Maybe its a cultural thing, with the West being more in tune with the concept of forced 'retirement' at 62-65, but there are plenty of examples of older Japanese gentlemen well into their 70's, forging knives with no obvious decrease in quality or passion.



+1


----------



## Luftmensch

As beautiful as Yo-Katos can be, I think Shigefusa westerns are more special - the bolsters are more elegant (to my eye). The transition from blade to handle on the Yo-Katos is abrupt and more 'rustic'.


----------



## Gjackson98

Attack! rich ppl!


----------



## Corradobrit1

Here's my preference based on aesthetics and performance factors
Kato Kikuryo>Yo Shig Kitaeji>Yo Kato>Wa Shig Kitaeji


----------



## Matus

A *friendly *and *only *reminder - this is a *'Kato alert*' thread. Take the discussion about edge retention, Wushofs and Jiro to a separate thread. Thank you.


----------



## Matus

Migraine said:


> What's with the influx of incessantly contrary posters lately?



Head on collision of different forum cultures/mentalities. Those who know KMS forum know what I am talking about.


----------



## Matus

Since we do not have a dedicated thread, I - for the sake of transparency - am posting the following information here : _Sharpchef requested his removal from KKF and we honored his wish without further due_. I personally feel sorry that it ended up this way. Sharpchef did bring some interesting views and also some fresh wind.

Please do not let me to keep you off topic any longer. Thank you for understanding


----------



## alterwisser

Matus said:


> Head on collision of different forum cultures/mentalities. Those who know KMS forum know what I am talking about.



I find this quite amusing ...


----------



## alterwisser

Matus said:


> Since we do not have a dedicated thread, I - for the sake of transparency - am posting the following information here : _Sharpchef requested his removal from KKF and we honored his wish without further due_. I personally feel sorry that it ended up this way. Sharpchef did bring some interesting views and also some fresh wind.
> 
> Please do not let me to keep you off topic any longer. Thank you for understanding



this as well ...


----------



## Codered

There is a 240 Kato standard in blue2 for auction selling for 1400$
Also a Kato KU santoku 155m which was pretty cheap.


----------



## Forty Ounce

Codered said:


> There is a 240 Kato standard in blue2 for auction selling for 1400$
> Also a Kato KU santoku 155m which was pretty cheap.


Sounds about 800 too high


----------



## Codered

Forty Ounce said:


> Sounds about 800 too high


It's 240 standard twin sold for 1560$ last month and made 13600 views on instagram ghosting through some onion. I wonder who will buy this one


----------



## Forty Ounce

Codered said:


> It's 240 standard twin sold for 1560$ last month and made 13600 views on instagram ghosting through some onion. I wonder who will buy this one


That one was also probably purchased for much less


----------



## Chicagohawkie

I’m pretty sure people complained when a 240 kato was priced around 300 bucks a few years ago.


----------



## vMinh Nguyen

Forty Ounce said:


> Sounds about 800 too high


so you know of a source from which i can get right now a kato standard for 600? do tell...


----------



## Forty Ounce

vMinh Nguyen said:


> so you know of a source from which i can get right now a kato standard for 600? do tell...


Go hunt through Japan, where they are still somewhat reasonable


----------



## Forty Ounce

What I don't understand is why anyone would pay honyaki prices for a Kato. Most of them don't even cut that well


----------



## vMinh Nguyen

Forty Ounce said:


> Go hunt through Japan, where they are still somewhat reasonable


i see...so your kato alert is 'look in japan' . thanks.


----------



## Forty Ounce

vMinh Nguyen said:


> i see...so your kato alert is 'look in japan' . thanks.


You are very welcome


----------



## dmonterisi

Forty Ounce said:


> What I don't understand is why anyone would pay honyaki prices for a Kato. Most of them don't even cut that well



what i dont understand is why someone would pay Kato prices for a honyaki. most of them are hard to sharpen and maintain and are somewhat brittle.

to each their own i guess.


----------



## Forty Ounce

dmonterisi said:


> what i dont understand is why someone would pay Kato prices for a honyaki. most of them are hard to sharpen and maintain and are somewhat brittle.
> 
> to each their own i guess.


Fair. I wouldn't recommend a honyaki to a beginner. But then, I wouldn't recommend a Kato to a beginner either.


----------



## Eitan78

.


----------



## dmonterisi

Forty Ounce said:


> Fair. I wouldn't recommend a honyaki to a beginner. But then, I wouldn't recommend a Kato to a beginner either.



true i guess. i have both and appreciate aspects of both and dislike aspects of both.


----------



## Forty Ounce

Eitan78 said:


> My Kato alert is look where you find all your katos and shigs before you sell them for a profit, same stores you found your ashi honyaki too


This


----------



## Eitan78

I find it very amusing that the same ppl asking about katos “cheap” are some of the very ppl selling those NOT cheap ones as soon as they get thier hands on one from Japan.


----------



## Gregmega

dmonterisi said:


> what i dont understand is why someone would pay Kato prices for a honyaki. most of them are hard to sharpen and maintain and are somewhat brittle.
> 
> to each their own i guess.



Perhaps you’ve not owned the right honyaki.


----------



## dmonterisi

Gregmega said:


> Perhaps you’ve not owned the right honyaki.



perhaps. it was also a tongue in cheek reply to his comment. sarcasm doesnt always come through.


----------



## Forty Ounce

dmonterisi said:


> perhaps. it was also a tongue in cheek reply to his comment. sarcasm doesnt always come through.


Pretty sure that was what his reply meant. Lol.


----------



## dmonterisi

Forty Ounce said:


> Pretty sure that was what his reply meant. Lol.



perhaps lol


----------



## Barmoley

Does every Kato, shig, honyaki thread has to end with bickering about how expensive and not worthy these knives are? We get it they are expensive and they used to be cheaper just 5 or so years ago, we get it, we do. Don't buy them. There are many, many great knives under $500-$600. Above that very little performance can be gained. You might get other stuff, but at that point performance is not what you are going for since improvements are very minor if they exist at all. Get over it, the price is what it is, don't buy these, you don't need them. If you want them, by all means, but stop complaining, you are not entitled to get these for the prices they used to have.


----------



## Forty Ounce

Barmoley said:


> Does every Kato, shig, honyaki thread has to end with bickering about how expensive and not worthy these knives are? We get it they are expensive and they used to be cheaper just 5 or so years ago, we get it, we do. Don't buy them. There are many, many great knives under $500-$600. Abobe that very little performance can be gained. You might get other stuff, but at that point performance is not what you are going for since improvements are very minor if they exist at all. Get over it, the price is what it is, don't buy these, you don't need them. If you want them, by all means, but stop complaining, you are not entitled to get these for the prices they used to have.


Yes.


----------



## Eitan78

Barmoley said:


> Does every Kato, shig, honyaki thread has to end with bickering about how expensive and not worthy these knives are? We get it they are expensive and they used to be cheaper just 5 or so years ago, we get it, we do. Don't buy them. There are many, many great knives under $500-$600. Above that very little performance can be gained. You might get other stuff, but at that point performance is not what you are going for since improvements are very minor if they exist at all. Get over it, the price is what it is, don't buy these, you don't need them. If you want them, by all means, but stop complaining, you are not entitled to get these for the prices they used to have.



Well it doesn’t have too , but it’s kind of inevitable when we all know the rule of the ״game” 
Retail prices have been updated many times 
Even in japan , but there is a much larger gap when it comes to the third party market prices.
There is no control of those prices 
At the same time there is no control of legit criticism.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Barmoley said:


> Does every Kato, shig, honyaki thread has to end with bickering about how expensive and not worthy these knives are? We get it they are expensive and they used to be cheaper just 5 or so years ago, we get it, we do. Don't buy them. There are many, many great knives under $500-$600. Above that very little performance can be gained. You might get other stuff, but at that point performance is not what you are going for since improvements are very minor if they exist at all. Get over it, the price is what it is, don't buy these, you don't need them. If you want them, by all means, but stop complaining, you are not entitled to get these for the prices they used to have.


Or just fly to Japan and scour the retailers display shelves yourself. I'm happy to pay a premium and avoid the possible disappointment of not finding any Kato/Shig/Ashi, as there are plenty of locals doing exactly the same.


----------



## Gregmega

Barmoley said:


> There are many, many great knives under $500-$600. Above that very little performance can be gained.



Aaaaaaaaaaand that about sums it up. Love me some Kato but dang there’s no way I’d buy another at this point. 1500$ is 80% of the way to a RJ.


----------



## Forty Ounce

Gregmega said:


> Aaaaaaaaaaand that about sums it up. Love me some Kato but dang there’s no way I’d buy another at this point. 1500$ is 80% of the way to a RJ.


Well said, stranger


----------



## sleepy

Gregmega said:


> Aaaaaaaaaaand that about sums it up. Love me some Kato but dang there’s no way I’d buy another at this point. 1500$ is 80% of the way to a RJ.



RJ?


----------



## Forty Ounce

sleepy said:


> RJ?


River jump


----------



## sleepy

Forty Ounce said:


> River jump



Thanks!


----------



## Corradobrit1

Forty Ounce said:


> River jump


Never got the appeal of those.


----------



## Gregmega

Corradobrit1 said:


> Never got the appeal of those.



It’s probably the only knife that is on my list as a ‘collector’ piece. Everything else’s gets the beat down. It’s almost like the higher the price tag, the more I want to prove it’s a tool. Except for this one. Pure art.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Gregmega said:


> It’s probably the only knife that is on my list as a ‘collector’ piece. Everything else’s gets the beat down. It’s almost like the higher the price tag, the more I want to prove it’s a tool. Except for this one. Pure art.


To each his own. For me an Ashi Honyaki meets that standard. Totally impractical but a thing of beauty.


----------



## Barmoley

Eitan78 said:


> Well it doesn’t have too , but it’s kind of inevitable when we all know the rule of the ״game”
> Retail prices have been updated many times
> Even in japan , but there is a much larger gap when it comes to the third party market prices.
> There is no control of those prices
> At the same time there is no control of legit criticism.


Legitimate criticism is fine. I don't have any katos or shigs, they are not for me. This thread is about letting people know where they can buy these I assume. Price is irrelevant in a thread like that. We can start yet another is Kato worth the price thread I guess. Expensive knives of any maker or brand are not worth it in the performance sense, but are worth it for other reasons for people who want them. My problem is with people feeling entitled to get the price they feel the knife should be. I would love a Raider or Billipp or whatever and if I decide that it is worth it to me for the price someone is willing to sell for I'll get it, what would be the point of saying these are too expensive, I can't get them cheaper anyway. Once again, discussion of price vs performance and alternatives is fine and good, constant whining that these knives are too expensive is just annoying.


----------



## danemonji

Forty Ounce said:


> Go hunt through Japan, where they are still somewhat reasonable


This is such nonsense. Migaki standard Kato 240 is 150k ¥ in japan in shops at the counter if you are lucky to find it in stock and i know this for a fact. 150k¥ is 1420$ and the only vendor selling Kato cheaper than this that i know of in 2019 is Maxim with his WH line. Perhaps you are looking at prices in online stores which haven't had kato in stock since 2017.
And yes Kato is not for everybody. If you think they are not worth the price or buying just look elsewhere. There are plenty of other smiths to choose from...so i don't understand your frustration


----------



## danemonji

Forty Ounce said:


> What I don't understand is why anyone would pay honyaki prices for a Kato. Most of them don't even cut that well


Do you own any Kato knives or have ever owned one in order to say they don't cut well? Or are you just trolling this forum. I have owned 4 Kato gyutos and a nakiri and they are some of the best cutters out there. Performance is something you just can't say is missing unless you don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## nakneker

I’ve owned a few Katos, never had one that was a bad cuter in any way. This same conversation comes up every other month, a never ending circle. If you like Kato then jump in and do the best you can for a price, if don’t then ignore all things Kato. Prices aren’t coming down, I bought a 240 2 years ago for 740.00, I just paid 1200 for a 240WH and I was glad to find it. Money in the bank if you ask me, some day you won’t be able to buy these knives except for the used market. I would speculate you’ll see prices go up again. You can’t live in the pricing world of the past, I guess you can but you wont be buying much.


----------



## danemonji

We really need a "Troll alert thread". There are so many false statements being said. I mean if you just search this forum postings...since 2011 people are talking how well these knives perform. We even have a thread called "Kato alert". There are blogs reviewing these knives and videos showing them in action. All online shops are sold out on Kato...and when they come in stock they sell in a matter of minutes. And here comes this guy saying he can find kato 240 gyutos in Japan for 600 bucks and that they are not such great cutters anyway. Really?


----------



## Eitan78

danemonji said:


> We really need a "Troll alert thread". There are so many false statements being said. I mean if you just search this forum postings...since 2011 people are talking how well these knives perform. We even have a thread called "Kato alert". There are blogs reviewing these knives and videos showing them in action. All online shops are sold out on Kato...and when they come in stock they sell in a matter of minutes. And here comes this guy saying he can find kato 240 gyutos in Japan for 600 bucks and that they are not such great cutters anyway. Really?



Great cutters and yes you could get them in Japan for $600


----------



## danemonji

Eitan78 said:


> Great cutters and yes you could get them in Japan for $600


600$ for a Kiyoshi Kato 240 standard where? How?


----------



## Eitan78

danemonji said:


> 600$ for a Kiyoshi Kato 240 standard where? How?



One example is this store 


http://hamono-net.or.jp/anatano/ginzakikuhide


----------



## jacko9

Eitan78 said:


> One example is this store
> 
> 
> http://hamono-net.or.jp/anatano/ginzakikuhide



Not being able to read Japanese - what does this web site show me? I have a JNS Workhorse 210 Gyuto but I would love to get a 240 Standard Kato and would gladly pay $600 for it.


----------



## danemonji

Oh i know this store. Were you able to buy something from them? It seems that all Kato are out of stock.
There is a yahoo auctions account "mitsuaki_5" which sells all their stuff for auction...i got my kato nakiri from him and it wasn't cheap. He is selling the standard for 150k¥


----------



## jacko9

150K JPY wow. I'm glad I picked up a 240mm KU Kato a few months back.


----------



## jacko9

My 240mm KU Kato


----------



## Corradobrit1

^^Source? Price?


----------



## jacko9

It was a special order I pre-paid for over two and a half years ago and I don't think the seller wants me to talk about it. So far it's brand new in the box only taken a few pictures so far. I'm not sure how much that would cost on the open market but the vendor gave it to me for the amount paid back then.


----------



## jacko9

Spine pic


----------



## lemeneid

jacko9 said:


> It was a special order I pre-paid for over two and a half years ago and I don't think the seller wants me to talk about it. So far it's brand new in the box only taken a few pictures so far. I'm not sure how much that would cost on the open market but the vendor gave it to me for the amount paid back then.


You got dimensions? I want to see how it compares to the Kus I know out there.


----------



## ynot1985

jacko9 said:


> 150K JPY wow. I'm glad I picked up a 240mm KU Kato a few months back.



If it’s a few months ago , then it’s a blue steel 

Most pre mid 2018 ones are white steel


----------



## jacko9

lemeneid said:


> You got dimensions? I want to see how it compares to the Kus I know out there.




I'll measure it tomorrow. I bought it with another 240 and it's the same length.


----------



## Gregmega

danemonji said:


> This is such nonsense. Migaki standard Kato 240 is 150k ¥ in japan in shops at the counter if you are lucky to find it in stock and i know this for a fact. 150k¥ is 1420$ and the only vendor selling Kato cheaper than this that i know of in 2019 is Maxim with his WH line. Perhaps you are looking at prices in online stores which haven't had kato in stock since 2017.
> And yes Kato is not for everybody. If you think they are not worth the price or buying just look elsewhere. There are plenty of other smiths to choose from...so i don't understand your frustration



Not entirely true. A friend just picked up 3 about a month and a half ago for 600 a pop.


----------



## Gregmega

danemonji said:


> We really need a "Troll alert thread". There are so many false statements being said. I mean if you just search this forum postings...since 2011 people are talking how well these knives perform. We even have a thread called "Kato alert". There are blogs reviewing these knives and videos showing them in action. All online shops are sold out on Kato...and when they come in stock they sell in a matter of minutes. And here comes this guy saying he can find kato 240 gyutos in Japan for 600 bucks and that they are not such great cutters anyway. Really?



I think we need to cool the jets a bit. Forty Ounce is/has been a Kato owner and speaks from a pretty deep sharpening experience. Not every knife is for every person. Some people like their cucumbers pickled. Some people prefer TF. Such is life.


----------



## Anton

Chicagohawkie said:


> I’m pretty sure people complained when a 240 kato was priced around 300 bucks a few years ago.



I did... once they hit $400


----------



## Gregmega

Anton said:


> I did... once they hit $400



Can’t believe how many times I said to myself- it’s a step too far. And now- kicking myself.


----------



## Anton

Gregmega said:


> Can’t believe how many times I said to myself- it’s a step too far. And now- kicking myself.


I clearly remember dragon and Kikuryu examples sitting on the JNS site for a few days... around '13 or something.. good ol days where things move a bite slower/saner


----------



## Customfan

Tsukasa blades are superb, it was until I was able to see one in person that I got the allure....

Don’t know if they command the price, but they are nice....


----------



## Forty Ounce

danemonji said:


> This is such nonsense. Migaki standard Kato 240 is 150k ¥ in japan in shops at the counter if you are lucky to find it in stock and i know this for a fact. 150k¥ is 1420$ and the only vendor selling Kato cheaper than this that i know of in 2019 is Maxim with his WH line. Perhaps you are looking at prices in online stores which haven't had kato in stock since 2017.
> And yes Kato is not for everybody. If you think they are not worth the price or buying just look elsewhere. There are plenty of other smiths to choose from...so i don't understand your frustration


You don't understand my frustration, because I'm not frustrated.


----------



## Forty Ounce

danemonji said:


> Do you own any Kato knives or have ever owned one in order to say they don't cut well? Or are you just trolling this forum. I have owned 4 Kato gyutos and a nakiri and they are some of the best cutters out there. Performance is something you just can't say is missing unless you don't know what you are talking about.


Why would I say that a lot don't cut well if I didn't know? Seems kinda presumptuous of you to assume that I have none.


----------



## Forty Ounce

Gregmega said:


> Not entirely true. A friend just picked up 3 about a month and a half ago for 600 a pop.


This


----------



## Corradobrit1

Gregmega said:


> Not entirely true. A friend just picked up 3 about a month and a half ago for 600 a pop.


And then flipped them here for almost double?


----------



## Forty Ounce

Corradobrit1 said:


> And then flipped them here for almost double?


No. Those went to honest people who just wanted katos


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Anton said:


> I clearly remember dragon and Kikuryu examples sitting on the JNS site for a few days... around '13 or something.. good ol days where things move a bite slower/saner


Yep, gradual price increases till 2015 then in 2016 the Kato - Shig frenzy began and its still on full afterburner for the foreseeable future. Lucky to get mine when i did.


----------



## aboynamedsuita

Gregmega said:


> Not entirely true. A friend just picked up 3 about a month and a half ago for 600 a pop.





Forty Ounce said:


> No. Those went to honest people who just wanted katos



It’s true. 

I think the people getting angry saying katos can only be found for $1000+ (and are all magical cutters) are trying keep prices, demand and allure high. Trying to dictate market value in some sort of quasi-organized racket. Don’t get me wrong, I love my Kato (and how it cuts).


----------



## Barclid

Kato makes great project knives. Most need thinning, and I suspect anyone saying they don't are more hammer-on-the-anvil with their knives than not. I've seen a handful that are good cutters out of the box and I still think those could be improved by better blending/transitioning throughout. Price is what it is, it's a collector's game now.


----------



## danemonji

Barclid said:


> Kato makes great project knives. Most need thinning, and I suspect anyone saying they don't are more hammer-on-the-anvil with their knives than not. I've seen a handful that are good cutters out of the box and I still think those could be improved by better blending/transitioning throughout. Price is what it is, it's a collector's game now.


See this i kind of don't understand: "most need thinning". All my katos are almost flat grind. What is there to thin? The spine? I'll just put the choil shot of a Kato wh 240 from 2019 JNS. "Not a good cutter" "needs thinning" what else


----------



## Barclid

danemonji said:


> See this i kind of don't understand: "most need thinning". All my katos are almost flat grind. What is there to thin? The spine? I'll just put the choil shot of a Kato wh 240 from 2019 JNS. "Not a good cutter" "needs thinning" what else
> View attachment 67264



Literally just thinned a Kato WH 240 with a comparable choil shot that was a disappointing cutter. See previous point, still not convinced. Since you clearly own a Kato, you should probably be aware that the choil is not at all indicative of the grind throughout.


----------



## danemonji

Barclid said:


> Literally just thinned a Kato WH 240 with a comparable choil shot that was a disappointing cutter. See previous point, still not convinced. Since you clearly own a Kato, you should probably be aware that the choil is not at all indicative of the grind throughout.


Yes the choil is at its fattest point. From there on it just thins...so again there's nothing to thin. Can you post some pictures with the Kato you just thinned. I would like to see what you did


----------



## Forty Ounce

danemonji said:


> Yes the choil is at its fattest point. From there on it just thins...so again there's nothing to thin. Can you post some pictures with the Kato you just thinned. I would like to see what you did


This makes me think that you don't understand the Kato grind. The fattest point is in the middle


----------



## Gregmega

He’s talking about blending the cross-sectional geometry. They can be a fat through the middle. The worst of them- and ironically the most expensive are the ku. Just bad knives ootb.


----------



## danemonji

Forty Ounce said:


> This makes me think that you don't understand the Kato grind. The fattest point is in the middle


So according to you the distal taper fattens in the middle. I think i start to follow you. I think i can see it fatten in the middle...i believe everybody can


----------



## Forty Ounce

danemonji said:


> So according to you the distal taper fattens in the middle. I think i start to follow you. I think i can see it fatten in the middle...i believe everybody can
> View attachment 67265


So you understand distal taper, but you don't seem to see past that. Time to study


----------



## aboynamedsuita

danemonji said:


> So according to you the distal taper fattens in the middle. I think i start to follow you. I think i can see it fatten in the middle...i believe everybody can
> View attachment 67265



I don’t think you understand the concept of geometry or the implications of tapering in general terms. Maybe turn the spine upside down. I still doubt you (or most) could see directly


----------



## Barclid

danemonji said:


> See this i kind of don't understand: "most need thinning". All my katos are almost flat grind. What is there to thin? The spine? I'll just put the choil shot of a Kato wh 240 from 2019 JNS. "Not a good cutter" "needs thinning" what else
> View attachment 67264


I don't have before pictures so you'll just have to be happy with the after pictures. Pictures showing distortion for your benefit so you can see that it's not just flattening, but convexity is maintained. @Gregmega is right; I'm referring to blending the cross-sectional geometry which is poorly transitioned. The heel on this one was over-ground to the point that it affected the profile as well as stone contact at the heel.


----------



## Barclid

danemonji said:


> So according to you the distal taper fattens in the middle. I think i start to follow you. I think i can see it fatten in the middle...i believe everybody can
> View attachment 67265



Sarcasm doesn't suit you. At least make an attempt to understand what he and I are saying. Draw your fingers from spine to edge at each section of your knife. Straight down at the heel, diagonally from the base of the spine to the mid section, as well as at the tip and other areas. As I said before, I've seen some that were pretty good out of the box but most are not transitioned well. You can maintain the "feel" of a Kato while blending that geometry transition to have a knife that is more satisfying to use.


----------



## Forty Ounce

Barclid said:


> Sarcasm doesn't suit you. At least make an attempt to understand what he and I are saying. Draw your fingers from spine to edge at each section of your knife. Straight down at the heel, diagonally from the base of the spine to the mid section, as well as at the tip and other areas. As I said before, I've seen some that were pretty good out of the box but most are not transitioned well. You can maintain the "feel" of a Kato while blending that geometry transition to have a knife that is more satisfying to use.


This


----------



## danemonji

Barclid said:


> Sarcasm doesn't suit you. At least make an attempt to understand what he and I are saying. Draw your fingers from spine to edge at each section of your knife. Straight down at the heel, diagonally from the base of the spine to the mid section, as well as at the tip and other areas. As I said before, I've seen some that were pretty good out of the box but most are not transitioned well. You can maintain the "feel" of a Kato while blending that geometry transition to have a knife that is more satisfying to use.


I've just checked my two wh versions and there is no poor trasition ( ran my fingers up and down) and no fattening in the middle for me this is SF. If i put the bladeroad on the stones it's just flat. To be honest i would't change a thing about their actual profile and grind. I would just keep it as is. I mean i have started this hobby seven years ago and sharpening ocassionally for 5 and i think a japanese master with 60 years experience in knifemaking and swordsmithing knows better what he is doing.


----------



## Eloh

The ones I saw/touched were almost flat at the back and front and very convex in the middle, if that helps.


----------



## Codered

Someone just asked me about auction sites. So for auctions there is http://buyee.jp
It's all english
1. you need to make an account for delivery address and paypal account
2. select auction and then yahoo auction.
3. The search module is based on japanese words so i suggest you go to google translate and write from english to japanese to find out the brand japanese name. shigefusa is : 重房 and kato is: 加藤清志
Just copy paste the words and search.
4. You can start bidding right away and if you win the auction they will try to get the money from your paypal or card account. In case it fails you can go to your account page and settle the payment via your paypal/card account.
5. Note there is a small shipping fee but they have a calculator for shipping based on value and weight of purchase. Depending on your location you should ask local post office about import taxes from Japan as you will have to pay them at your local post office when you pick up the package.

There was recently ashi honyaki really cheap also a takamura 270 and other cool knives just keep looking in western knives section. Also if you see a vendor selling a speciffic brand click on his name as that will reveal all items he is currently selling.
Have fun


----------



## Barclid

danemonji said:


> I've just checked my two wh versions and there is no poor trasition ( ran my fingers up and down) and no fattening in the middle for me this is SF. If i put the bladeroad on the stones it's just flat. To be honest i would't change a thing about their actual profile and grind. I would just keep it as is. I mean i have started this hobby seven years ago and sharpening ocassionally for 5 and i think a japanese master with 60 years experience in knifemaking and swordsmithing knows better what he is doing.



You're right, you probably don't know what you're looking for.


----------



## danemonji

Barclid said:


> You're right, you probably don't know what you're looking for.


Or maybe there is nothing to look for. I don't know you so i don't trust you. If you want to talk about kato geometry and these knives not being good cutters, why don't you take this topic with Maxim as he checks these blades before shipping. At least him i trust.


----------



## Barclid

danemonji said:


> Or maybe there is nothing to look for. I don't know you so i don't trust you. If you want to talk about kato geometry and these knives not being good cutters, why don't you take this topic with Maxim as he checks these blades before shipping. At least him i trust.


Trust a salesman all you want.


----------



## danemonji

Barclid said:


> Trust a salesman all you want.


So you are saying he is not trustworthy. He fooled me  i thought he knows his trade and sells some decent stuff


----------



## Matus

Eloh said:


> The ones I saw/touched were almost flat at the back and front and very convex in the middle, if that helps.



this sounds pretty logical to me on a knife with such a pronounced distal taper (spine). At the heel the knife is very thick at the spine, so there is little convexity as that would crate very thick grind. The tip gets quite thin and there is not much thickness left to work with. In between there is enough ‘room’ (I wanted to say phase space) for a convex grind.

Accidentally - I had a chance to handle 2 brand new Kato WH 240 knives recently and while there was quite a difference in weight and height between them (both were made with past 12 months or so), both were ground as they should be with a thin edge. No thinning will be needed anytime soon.


----------



## danemonji

Matus said:


> this sounds pretty logical to me on a knife with such a pronounced distal taper (spine). At the heel the knife is very thick at the spine, so there is little convexity as that would crate very thick grind. The tip gets quite thin and there is not much thickness left to work with. In between there is enough ‘room’ (I wanted to say phase space) for a convex grind.
> 
> Accidentally - I had a chance to handle 2 brand new Kato WH 240 knives recently and while there was quite a difference in weight and height between them (both were made with past 12 months or so), both were ground as they should be with a thin edge. No thinning will be needed anytime soon.


Both my kato wh were bought this year one in march one in november and none needs thining. That's why when this guy said it needs thinning i assumed he doesn't know what he is talking about.
@Barclid : sorry bro but it looks you got the wrong stock.


----------



## Matus

Well, I see no need to call people out - everyone has a different definition of what "thing behind the edge" means and there still inevitably will be variations as the knife is really hand made. The two I had in hand were of about same length, but one was 50 and the other 54 mm tall, the first weighting 240g and the second 280g. That was a quite noticeable difference.


----------



## HRC_64

Jesus people handmade knives don't look all alike...
lets try to to extrapolate all knives are "like" the "best" examples.

just like not all "jokes" are as good the "best" jokes in a standup routine


----------



## krstf

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Kiyoshi-Kat...339883?hash=item4b70e0fbab:g:7RsAAOSwL05d-eAH

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Kiyoshi-Kat...342800?hash=item4b70e10710:g:CIIAAOSwJAxd-eEz

...


----------



## Matus

@krstf - that would be better placed in Flipper Alert


----------



## krstf

@Matus


----------



## krstf

you're propably right about that


----------



## Barclid

danemonji said:


> Both my kato wh were bought this year one in march one in november and none needs thining. That's why when this guy said it needs thinning i assumed he doesn't know what he is talking about.
> @Barclid : sorry bro but it looks you got the wrong stock.


I already told you some look alright out of the box. Just alright. I suspect you're not as picky as I am, and that's fine for you.


----------



## lemeneid

krstf said:


> https://www.ebay.de/itm/Kiyoshi-Kat...339883?hash=item4b70e0fbab:g:7RsAAOSwL05d-eAH
> 
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/Kiyoshi-Kat...342800?hash=item4b70e10710:g:CIIAAOSwJAxd-eEz
> 
> ...


Ugly custom handle is ugly.


----------



## Gjackson98

I don’t wanna jump into this mess lol, just wanna ask a question to better educate myself and maybe give some of my thoughts. 

which hand made knife that you have purchase required no touch up/ thinning? 

Again not trying to pick up sparks. It’s just that so far in my memory, all the knives that have came to me, I almost always can find some imperfections that I can play with. 

I personally don’t think touching up a knife is such a big deal or deal breaker. At the end they are “kitchen toys” for us. If you don’t play what’s the fun? 

Thinning the knife to your liking and claim it yours, I personally think it’s where the love should be. 

I am a kato owner, I use them, I paid high dollars for them, I am happy with the performance (on the few I have handled), I don’t have regrets with the price I paid.
But my opinions doesn’t ride over anyone else’s. Some people probably don’t like Kato style, and I can’t say your wrong. 
It’s the same as I Personally don’t like laser style in general, it is a personal choice and shouldn’t be judged as right or wrong.


----------



## Eitan78

lemeneid said:


> Ugly custom handle is ugly.



Probably a shelf knife


----------



## Eitan78

Some will say this is a perfect knife 
Some will say this one needs thinning 
Some will say this one is worth $600
Some will say it’s worth $2000

Once again, it’s all up for debate


----------



## Eitan78

Corradobrit1 said:


> And then flipped them here for almost double?


----------



## Xenif

Eitan78 said:


> View attachment 67278


+1 

When a like is not enough


----------



## Forty Ounce

Eitan78 said:


> View attachment 67278


Well said


----------



## Forty Ounce

danemonji said:


> Both my kato wh were bought this year one in march one in november and none needs thining. That's why when this guy said it needs thinning i assumed he doesn't know what he is talking about.
> @Barclid : sorry bro but it looks you got the wrong stock.


I love how you are now trying to agree with people who said things that oppose your thoughts. Keep up that ignorance, it sounds blissful.


----------



## danemonji

Ok i will just say this once. You started by making some false statements "all katos are bad cutters" "all katos need thining" that i will not agree. That's just BS.
You don't like the knives just move on there are so many other smiths to hate 
Stop making generalizations because others might have a different opinion.


----------



## Forty Ounce

danemonji said:


> Ok i will just say this once. You started by making some false statements "all katos are bad cutters" "all katos need thining" that i will not agree. That's just BS.


You should maybe read those again. No one said ALL.


----------



## Gregmega

Forty Ounce said:


> I love how you are now trying to agree with people who said things that oppose your thoughts. Keep up that ignorance, it sounds blissful.



I’m not sure he understands how complex cross-sectional geometry can be and how minutia can effect cutting performance, or perhaps just isn’t as discerning about the function of the grinds. Simply buying a kato doesn’t make an expert of anyone.


----------



## Forty Ounce

Gregmega said:


> I’m not sure he understands how complex cross-sectional geometry can be and how minutia can effect cutting performance, or perhaps just isn’t as discerning about the function of the grinds. Simply buying a kato doesn’t make an expert of anyone.


Agreed, some of us aren't meant to be knife nerds.


----------



## danemonji

Guys you are right please excuse my ignorance ...greg forty sorry if i offended you in any way. Cheers and let's enjoy life


----------



## Gregmega

No offense taken here, I am politely stating that there’s no absolutisms in handmade products- moreihi grinds are very different from jns grinds, i this we can all agree on.


----------



## Forty Ounce

danemonji said:


> Guys you are right please excuse my ignorance ...greg forty sorry if i offended you in any way. Cheers and let's enjoy life


We're good. Cheers


----------



## Eitan78

danemonji said:


> Ok i will just say this once. You started by making some false statements "all katos are bad cutters" "all katos need thining" that i will not agree. That's just BS.
> You don't like the knives just move on there are so many other smiths to hate
> Stop making generalizations because others might have a different opinion.



I have had some katos out of the box that were great cutters and I had some that were not.

Also for some of us a good/bad cutter mean different things.

It doesn’t mean that it’s a bad knife, it just means that with a little work on the stones they can become better cutters TO ONES PREFERENCE 
Which is also debatable.

Some ppl like it when the knife ghosts through food and some like to hear a powerful cracking sound when they cut.
It also means nothing since you might be cutting softer products and never cut a hard root vegetable for example.

One thing I can say for sure, and that is a fact 
No Kato knife has ever had a flat bevel out of the box, they are all convex ground including his single bevel knives.

And last which is very important 
There is no way to determine the grind of a knife simply by looking at a choil shot, definitely not by a picture of the spine tapering.

You can probably determine the grind by feeling the cross section down to the edge along the blade If you have some experience 
But to get a really good idea of the grind you have to put the knife on the stones,
And I don’t mean just lay the bevel on a stones 
- like actually sharpen/ touch up on the bevel 

I hope I’m making some sense here.
And this is not me trying to set any Kato “yard stick” 

Just saying, Not all katos are created equal in short.

Also at some point, if you do use your knives and sharpen the edge you will have to eventually thin behind the edge, otherwise you won’t enjoy the full potential of the knife and only widen the edge every time you sharpen.

This is true to all knives, not just Kato


----------



## krstf

Newbie question: Could someone point towards a thread or other resource about cross sectional geometry?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Xenif

krstf said:


> Newbie question: Could someone point towards a thread or other resource about cross sectional geometry?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/index.php?threads/43802/

Its on distal taper but there are some ...er ... Discussion ... On over cross sectional geometry in there


----------



## F-Flash

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/kato-geometry.25699/

About kato geometry


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## jacko9

lemeneid said:


> You got dimensions? I want to see how it compares to the Kus I know out there.



240mm KU Kato 231mm edge length, 52mm height, 387mm overall length. How does that compare to others that you have seen?


----------



## Forty Ounce

jacko9 said:


> 240mm KU Kato 231mm edge length, 52mm height, 387mm overall length. How does that compare to others that you have seen?


Break out the calipers.. you forgot thicknesses all the way down the blade road


----------



## jacko9

Forty Ounce said:


> Break out the calipers.. you forgot thicknesses all the way down the blade road


Thickness at the spine? As you can see it is quick thick coming out of the handle.


----------



## krstf

Thanks a lot @Xenif & @F-Flash!


----------



## Barclid

jacko9 said:


> Thickness at the spine? As you can see it is quick thick coming out of the handle.


I like how we had this whole long conversation about how it's not just about spine thickness and the choil shot and you somehow missed all of that.


----------



## jacko9

Barclid said:


> I like how we had this whole long conversation about how it's not just about spine thickness and the choil shot and you somehow missed all of that.




Actually I didn't miss any of it - I was responding to a direct question about dimensions of my Ku Kato. Yes it seems like it's interspersed with a few different conversations so, I'll quit here.


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## Barclid

jacko9 said:


> Actually I didn't miss any of it - I was responding to a direct question about dimensions of my Ku Kato. Yes it seems like it's interspersed with a few different conversations so, I'll quit here.


Oh, but you did. He asked for measurements "all down the blade road" and you somehow took that to mean spine thickness. I'd say that your response completely missed the point of the question.


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## jacko9

Barclid said:


> Oh, but you did. He asked for measurements "all down the blade road" and you somehow took that to mean spine thickness. I'd say that your response completely missed the point of the question.



Perhaps you'll forgive me but as a novice I don't even know where the hell the "blade road" is. Like I mentioned last post, I'm done (putting away my Mitutoyo calibers).


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## Barmoley

What's up with the nasty comments and superiority complex lately on KKF. There is a lot of knowledge on this forum, how about sharing without feeling all superior and like everyone else is an idiot?


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## Forty Ounce

jacko9 said:


> Thickness at the spine? As you can see it is quick thick coming out of the handle.


Blade road, not spine. Spine means almost nothing


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## Forty Ounce

jacko9 said:


> Perhaps you'll forgive me but as a novice I don't even know where the hell the "blade road" is. Like I mentioned last post, I'm done (putting away my Mitutoyo calibers).


Sorry, responded before reading the following comments.. what I meant was you need to measure from the edge side, 5mm in, 10mm in, etc. Up to the shoulder. That will give a better idea of the geometry.


----------



## M1k3




----------



## Midsummer

http://www.zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/jbladeant.shtml 

D) Kiriba - blade path or blade road


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## bahamaroot

Codered said:


> There is a 240 Kato standard in blue2 for auction selling for 1400$
> Also a Kato KU santoku 155m which was pretty cheap.


Meaningless info unless you tell people WHERE they can find them.


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## Codered

bahamaroot said:


> Meaningless info unless you tell people WHERE they can find them.


Keep reading through the mess of messages there and you will find a guide how to connect to the auctions. I wrote a detailed guide


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## bahamaroot

Codered said:


> Keep reading through the mess of messages there and you will find a guide how to connect to the auctions. I wrote a detailed guide


Sorry, I missed some of that clutter.


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## Eitan78

bahamaroot said:


> Meaningless info unless you tell people WHERE they can find them.



Here is one


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/324016342800


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## Eitan78

Here is another one 


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/324016339883


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## Eitan78

Both very nice knives with beautiful handles and a very fine price (NOT)
But I couldn’t expect any less from the infamous s0real


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## Codered

This is the 3rd time people mention this guy Soreal. Did he steal the knives from someone? I sense a lot of hate for this guy. Is this the knife Omerta or the Mafia. Maybe someone can explain what is going on


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## F-Flash

He is famous flipper that buys high demand knives only to sell for large profit.


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## ynot1985

Codered said:


> This is the 3rd time people mention this guy Soreal. Did he steal the knives from someone? I sense a lot of hate for this guy. Is this the knife Omerta or the Mafia. Maybe someone can explain what is going on



he didn't steal but he sort of indirectly created the bst that we have now. I don't mean that in a good way

You won't find genuine bargains on BST anymore


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## Codered

Oh is that it. He must have crossed paths with other flippers because looking through BST i can see he is not the only flipper out there.


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## Badgertooth

Codered said:


> This is the 3rd time people mention this guy Soreal. Did he steal the knives from someone? I sense a lot of hate for this guy. Is this the knife Omerta or the Mafia. Maybe someone can explain what is going on



Slippery little eel that pretty much broke KKF.


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## Codered

Oh boy i just searched for this guy on the forum and here in kato alert i can see people buying 7 kato 15 shigs. What was going on in 2017? people buying in bulk for investment. I can see how they made a fortune.


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## ynot1985

Codered said:


> Oh is that it. He must have crossed paths with other flippers because looking through BST i can see he is not the only flipper out there.



he was the first in the eyes of many (maybe not the first in a true sense but the first to do it consistently).. literally buying a knife on bst and then asking for the lowest prices.. turns around and lists it on the same forum a week or two later for 2-3 x the times.

the good will on bst died that day.


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## Codered

ynot1985 said:


> he was the first in the eyes of many (maybe not the first in a true sense but the first to do it consistently).. literally buying a knife on bst and then asking for the lowest prices.. turns around and lists it on the same forum a week or two later for 2-3 x the times.
> 
> the good will on bst died that day.


This explains it. I guess a lot of others picked up this bad habit. This must be why there are a lot of inflated prices and why we have that flipper alert. For us newbies this history of the forum is nice to know. Also to stay away from this type of people.


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## Gregmega

Sadly once the market demonstrated that those prices worked for him & buyers would actually pay, it stuck. And the last ‘normal price’ for kato and the like essentially ended. This was the end of 2017. 

And ushered in the “bnib, only used once to cut the brake lines on my enemies car, sharpened on the sidewalk, perfect condition, asking twice what I paid”


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## Corradobrit1

I remember baulking at $800 Kato's back then. How times have changed. But its not just certain knife brands, the same craziness has carried through to aircooled Porsche and Rolex. Sign of the times when demand outstrips supply.


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## Barmoley

There are still good deals on BST, look at @labor of love postings. No one prevents anyone from selling their knives much cheaper than they spent buying them. The problem with s0real was that he lied about his reasons for selling and sort of tricked some people into selling to him for cheap. As much as he is blamed you have to be fair, he didn't create the situation as it exists. He recognized an opportunity and took it, others followed suite because it coincided with kitchen knives becoming very popular and many more buyers entering the market. So not a good exmember of the community, but not an Antichrist he is made out to be. The community needs to take responsibility for what it is. If people are willing to pay more for these knives, there will be people who will make this happen.


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## jacko9

I agree with Supply and Demand but, for me I will only buy from a respectable dealer and I don't re-sell my knives. Recently I purchased a Konosuke Fujiyama FT in B#2 240mm Gyuto and it's a great cutting knife at a much lower cost than the "in-knives" are selling for. I even briefly held a Kato in my cart on JNS last week but at $853 USD I decided to leave it to someone else.


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## Jville

jacko9 said:


> I agree with Supply and Demand but, for me I will only buy from a respectable dealer and I don't re-sell my knives. Recently I purchased a Konosuke Fujiyama FT in B#2 240mm Gyuto and it's a great cutting knife at a much lower cost than the "in-knives" are selling for. I even briefly held a Kato in my cart on JNS last week but at $853 USD I decided to leave it to someone else.



At $853 next time buy it and sell it to me for that price. I'll pay shipping and a sweet $20 spot for your troubles . I hate the inflated secondary market.


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## jacko9

Jville said:


> At $853 next time buy it and sell it to me for that price. I'll pay shipping and a sweet $20 spot for your troubles . I hate the inflated secondary market.


OK - But I don't really do the buy/sell thing. I'll let you know if I buy one. I'm retired and have the time to be online but, I'm not into reselling for profit.


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## Corradobrit1

jacko9 said:


> I even briefly held a Kato in my cart on JNS last week but at $853 USD I decided to leave it to someone else.


Wasn't that the Shiggy Kitaeji Western petty?
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/shigefusa-at-jns.44547/


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## Jville

jacko9 said:


> OK - But I don't really do the buy/sell thing. I'll let you know if I buy one. I'm retired and have the time to be online but, I'm not into reselling for profit.


Ok, that would be awesome! I can never catch them through jns and I don't have any direct connects like some people have. I like Katos and getting one at vendor price would be great. At the inflated secondary market prices, I have to just pass on them.


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## Corradobrit1

Jville said:


> Ok, that would be awesome! I can never catch them through jns and I don't have any direct connects like some people have. I like Katos and getting one at vendor price would be great. At the inflated secondary market prices, I have to just pass on them.


I don't think it was a Kato so you can relax


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## Jville

Corradobrit1 said:


> I don't think it was a Kato so you can relax



Way to be a buzzkill man . Anyways, it's not like I'd be holding my breath or banking on it. But if it were to happen .


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## jacko9

Corradobrit1 said:


> Wasn't that the Shiggy Kitaeji Western petty?
> https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/shigefusa-at-jns.44547/


That was also available without a handle but, the Kato Workhorse was available as well. I probably should have bought it for one of my sons.


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## Jville

jacko9 said:


> That was also available without a handle but, the Kato Workhorse was available as well. I probably should have bought it for one of my sons.



I've always thought of you as a father.


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## jacko9

Jville said:


> I've always thought of you as a father.



At 75 years old I'm also a grandfather. I just bought my 20 year old granddaughter a 180mm Watanabe Pro Nakiri with matching Saya. She likes to cook a lot of veggies and I figure that knife will allow me some quite time with her teaching her to sharpen.


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## Corradobrit1

jacko9 said:


> That was also available without a handle but, the Kato Workhorse was available as well. I probably should have bought it for one of my sons.


Ah so priced the same? Talk about winning the lotto twice. I don't think I've ever timed it so I could put one in my cart, let alone see the asking price.


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## Xenif

jacko9 said:


> At 75 years old I'm also a grandfather. I just bought my 20 year old granddaughter a 180mm Watanabe Pro Nakiri with matching Saya. She likes to cook a lot of veggies and I figure that knife will allow me some quite time with her teaching her to sharpen.


I'd call you grandpa any day!


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## jacko9

Corradobrit1 said:


> Ah so priced the same? Talk about winning the lotto twice. I don't think I've ever timed it so I could put one in my cart, let alone see the asking price.



I just wasn't interested in a Shigefusa no handle western style blade. Like I mentioned earlier I already have the 210 Kato Workhorse (a really fine blade).


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## Corradobrit1

jacko9 said:


> I just wasn't interested in a Shigefusa no handle western style blade. Like I mentioned earlier I already have the 210 Kato Workhorse (a really fine blade).


Agreed. My 210WH @216x48 and 206g is just about perfect for me. This and the TF Denka 210 Yo are my 2 fav knives in the collection.


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## jacko9

Corradobrit1 said:


> Agreed. My 210WH @216x48 and 206g is just about perfect for me. This and the TF Denka 210 Yo are my 2 fav knives in the collection.



I have two T-F blades a very heavy 240mm Nashiji Gyuto and a very nice 150mm Nashiji Petty (both with ebony handles). My second favorite blade after my Kato is a Konosuke Fujiyama 240mm FT B#2. I also have the older style grind Kono Fujiyama B#2 210 Gyuto in third place.


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## bahamaroot

jacko9 said:


> At 75 years old I'm also a grandfather. I just bought my 20 year old granddaughter a 180mm Watanabe Pro Nakiri with matching Saya. She likes to cook a lot of veggies and I figure that knife will allow me some quite time with her teaching her to sharpen.


At 53 years old I'm a grandfather. At two she loves her vegetables but is far from ready for a Kato. But she may be 20 before I ever actually get one in my cart and checked out....


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## Jville

bahamaroot said:


> At 53 years old I'm a grandfather. At two she loves her vegetables but is far from ready for a Kato. But she may be 20 before I ever actually get one in my cart and checked out....



Uhh, 20 years from now, is he going to be still making them? I would think not


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## bahamaroot

And they'll probably be easier to get then....


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## Codered

I am happy i could buy one on BST a couple of months ago since i doubt i will be able to afford one in the future. And i don't think its about the build but rather the fact that this guy is a legend both in japan and the west and he is 75 so will not be making more soon. Carter was saying in a video about Shiraki that smithing is a hard environment with toxic gases and hard labour and most smiths will retire when in their 70s due to health issues. I think Shiraki retired.
I only wish Kato was making western handle gyutos since i haven't seen one for sale ever. I wonder how hard it is to make western vs wa. Is it more time consuming or a bit more material?
Also is he making any damascus?


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## jacko9

As far as I know Kato is as old as me and I'm 75 so I suspect that he won't be producing knives for many more years (if he even still making them).


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## Nemo

krstf said:


> Newbie question: Could someone point towards a thread or other resource about cross sectional geometry?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



These 2 are a good start:

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/a-basic-explanation-of-asymmetry.33951/

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/food-release-stiction-and-the-grind.35641/

This one is a little more complex:

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/asymmetry--the-real-deal.5656/#post-92345


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## tchan001

Just wondering. When was the last time a Kato damascus gyuto come up on the market from an online retailer? Haven't seen any in ages.


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## jacko9

Knife Merchant 6/11/2017 had both 210mm and 240mm Kato Damascus - they have since taken Kato off their online page.


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## FoRdLaz

There aren’t any at retailers cos he’s not making any. Neither will he


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## tchan001

So they just become rarer and rarer. Thanks for the info.


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## M1k3

tchan001 said:


> So they just become rarer and rarer. Thanks for the info.


Not unless someone is destroying them.


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## Matus

M1k3 said:


> Not unless someone is destroying them.


... or simply keeping them in use or collection.


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## M1k3

Matus said:


> ... or simply keeping them in use or collection.


That doesn't make them less rare. Just less available.


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## tchan001

Let's rephrase that. Unused BNIB Kato kikuryu gyutos are becoming rarer and rarer.


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## Matus

I would rather believe that most existing kikuryu are still BNIB ... just not available on the market.


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## Corradobrit1

Matus said:


> I would rather believe that most existing kikuryu are still BNIB ... just not available on the market.


Or at least purport to be. I don't think they had the mythical status back in the day, when they could be picked up reasonably cheaply from retailers, that they do now.


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## tchan001

Wonder if there is a Kato Kikuryu gyuto in Stefan Keller's collection with a wonderful handle.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

Corradobrit1 said:


> Or at least purport to be. I don't think they had the mythical status back in the day, when they could be picked up reasonably cheaply from retailers, that they do now.


I don't remember hearing about them until about 5 years ago. Shigefusa on the other hand has always had a mythical vibe.


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## Chicagohawkie

Corradobrit1 said:


> Or at least purport to be. I don't think they had the mythical status back in the day, when they could be picked up reasonably cheaply from retailers, that they do now.


What other retailers besides JNS?


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## Corradobrit1

Chicagohawkie said:


> What other retailers besides JNS?


There are a couple different types of Kato Dammy. JNS had Kikuryu and here's another




__





Fujiwara Yoshiaki (Kato Kiyoshi) : Japan-Tool Online Shopping Cart


Japan-Tool Online Shopping Cart : Fujiwara Yoshiaki (Kato Kiyoshi) - Gen-nou (Hammers) Nokogiri (Saws) Cutlery/Hashi (Chopsticks) Yakimonos 20% OFF SALE Books Houchou/Naifu/Manaita (Knives) Kanna (Planes) Toishi (Sharpening Stones)/Strop Nomis (Chisels) Marking Tools Hasami (Scissors/Secateurs)...



www.japan-tool.com


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## Chicagohawkie

Lol, that J-T page has been stagnant for 5 years. The kato workhorse and kikuryu were JNS exclusive inventions.


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## Corradobrit1

Chicagohawkie said:


> Lol, that J-T page has been stagnant for 5 years. The kato workhorse and kikuryu were JNS exclusive inventions.


Yes, but we're discussing Kato Dammy in general not just the Kikuryu version which I think everyone knows is a JNS exclusive.


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## andrewsa

So who's this lucky person


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## ynot1985

I don't get what they mean by "this is not the actual knife". so they stole someone else photo? This is the morehei version from the kanji

so how much was it sold for?

Lucky is a very relative thing. You pay an arm and leg for it so I'm not sure that is considered lucky.


----------



## Corradobrit1

andrewsa said:


> So who's this lucky person
> 
> View attachment 114488
> View attachment 114486


I'm more interested in the Ashi Honyaki that dude snagged for $1100!


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## MowgFace

ynot1985 said:


> I don't get what they mean by "this is not the actual knife". so they stole someone else photo?



Like they had one in stock, but used a product photo that they took previously from their last shipment rather than snap a new photo of an otherwise identical knife.


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## Gregmega

F


andrewsa said:


> So who's this lucky person
> 
> View attachment 114488
> View attachment 114486


Forget that chunky hot gas beater in the front let’s talk about that svelt Ashi in the back there.


----------



## khashy

Gregmega said:


> F
> 
> Forget that chunky hot gas beater in the front let’s talk about that svelt Ashi in the back there.


The svelt Ashi in the background has a beautifully rounded heel. I wish all my knife heels were rounded


----------



## Corradobrit1

khashy said:


> The svelt Ashi in the background has a beautifully rounded heel. I wish all my knife heels were rounded


Aftermarket modification? For $1100 I wouldn't be complaining


----------



## Gregmega

khashy said:


> The svelt Ashi in the background has a beautifully rounded heel. I wish all my knife heels were rounded


An Ashi can be fixed. But you can’t fix the ugly of a ku Kato


----------



## khashy

Gregmega said:


> An Ashi can be fixed. But you can’t fix the ugly of a ku Kato



You know what they say about beauty and eye and the beholder.

To me the KU kato is beautiful, maybe not a conventional beauty that one’d find in a magazine but beautiful nonetheless. Like Uma Thurman, can’t quite point out why she is pretty but pretty she is.

And that marks the end of today’s philosophy lecture. In conclusion, Kato is in fact Uma Thurman in disguise and we love him for everything he is and everything he makes. Long live Uma.


----------



## Gregmega

I think a touched a sensitive part- never mess with a Kato ku fan, almost as dangerous as the TF clan  luv u Khashmoney


----------



## khashy

Gregmega said:


> I think a touched a sensitive part- never mess with a Kato ku fan, almost as dangerous as the TF clan  luv u Khashmoney





On a separate note, I’m happy to have membership cards to both the TF clan and the KP (Kato posse).

I end up running errands for the big boys mostly, hopefully I’ll level up one day to become a bronze card holder


----------



## DavidPF

khashy said:


> hopefully I’ll level up one day to become a bronze card holder


Is that the one with the lower interest rate and no annual fees?


----------



## danemonji

Any news from Kato? I haven't seen any of his gyutos in the recent jns stocks, neither on auctions. It seems that Kato kitchen knives are becoming a rare finding these days.
Anyone knows the reason? Is Kato ok?


----------



## Corradobrit1

danemonji said:


> Any news from Kato? I haven't seen any of his gyutos in the recent jns stocks, neither on auctions. It seems that Kato kitchen knives are becoming a rare finding these days.
> Anyone knows the reason? Is Kato ok?


Maksim had a couple of Kato hunters a week ago. And someone snagged a very tasty honyaki Yani that he made a couple of months ago. So based on that I assume he's fine and well and maybe just taking a break after a very productive 18 months.


----------



## jacko9

danemonji said:


> Any news from Kato? I haven't seen any of his gyutos in the recent jns stocks, neither on auctions. It seems that Kato kitchen knives are becoming a rare finding these days.
> Anyone knows the reason? Is Kato ok?


I don't have any actual information on his status but, since I'm his age I can tell you that people do slow down with age ;-)


----------



## Shay

And gone


----------



## Moooza

Anyone know if the JNS 210 kiri tipped gyutos were white steel or blue steel?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Moooza said:


> Anyone know if the JNS 210 kiri tipped gyutos were white steel or blue steel?


Pretty safe bet they're blue


----------



## TSF415

That knife did not look appealing. Pretty weird shape to it. I'm never set on a profile and love trying whatever the expert makes but I couldn't imagine enjoying that one.


----------



## lemeneid

Corradobrit1 said:


> Pretty safe bet they're blue


Depends if it’s std or workhorse. Heard std is blue while wh uses a mystery steel



TSF415 said:


> That knife did not look appealing. Pretty weird shape to it. I'm never set on a profile and love trying whatever the expert makes but I couldn't imagine enjoying that one.


I have the 240ktip wh. It’s totally badass. Totally oversized and imposing presence, more so than the regular 240 wh.


----------



## Corradobrit1

lemeneid said:


> Depends if it’s std or workhorse. Heard std is blue while wh uses a mystery steel
> 
> 
> I have the 240ktip wh. It’s totally badass. Totally oversized and imposing presence, more so than the regular 240 wh.
> View attachment 127807


The recent WH knives I have show a closer resemblance to my B#2 STDs than my older mystery white WH.


----------



## danemonji

Kato 210 wh kiri on JNS up right now


----------

