# Fried Chicken...Need help



## Mucho Bocho (Aug 25, 2017)

I'm looking for some advise on cooking fried chicken. Ya know, the Southern United States way. I've a pretty advanced cook and honestly, few dishes intimidate me including the fancy stuff. But I feel like my fried chicken never really hits the mark. I've cooked it every way to Sunday but is still not right. 

Cooking vessel: I use a 50% oil Mother w 50% fresh peanut oil. Pot is glazed cast iron over an induction hob set to 360 F degrees.

Most of the time the crust is too hard, but then is lowering the heat the crust falls off. I've even tried using Trisol flour with mostly corn starch, too hard. 

I've tried marinating in butter milk and double dredging, still hard. 

I've added to the wet batter, vodka, egg whites only.... Nope.

Its a dam mess and over 20 years of passionately cooking, I still can't dial it in as good as my local Lowes supermarket or Golden Coral. Help me please.

dennis


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## Razor (Aug 25, 2017)

You obviously know what you are doing in the kitchen. I grew up in Louisiana and fried chicken is a staple. Earlier this year I had the best fried chicken and waffles of my 60+ years in a small restaurant in Oceanside, CA. What they do that I have been somewhat successful in replicating is this: They use only chicken thighs that they debone and butterfly at the thickest part. Then overnight in buttermilk, and then dredge in breadcrumbs. I think the secret is how fast the butterflied boneless thigh cooks. I realize this is not necessarily an answer to your question on how to solve the problem of whole cut up fried chicken, but it is all I do now. 

Other than that I do remember that in the 60's the best home cooks were using lard and/or Crisco and not the currently popular peanut oil. One other important factor is to not submerge the pieces but only let the oil get 1/2 way up the pieces and turn only once. This is typically done in a shallow cast iron pan and not a pot.


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## TheCaptain (Aug 25, 2017)

Sorry got nothing for you. Best fried chicken I ever had was from a small grocery store by my sissy's in Paducah, KY. 10 pieces +2 sides +4 biscuts for $10. It's a damn good thing I live over 6+ hours from that place.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 25, 2017)

Have you tried using self-rising flour?


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## ThEoRy (Aug 25, 2017)

This is a lot more simple than people make it. Just don't fry it at a high temp. Do not double dip in dredge. 


Buttermilk overnight. Ranch packets are good.

Shake off excess.

Dredge in seasoned flour. Ranch packets are really good.

Deep fry at 275 degrees until the cuts float. 12-15 min or more depending upon the cut and size. 

Remove from oil. Season while still wet with Kosher salt and fresh pepper.


Serve with honey buttered cornbread and coleslaw. Win.


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## ChefJimbo (Aug 25, 2017)

+1 to ThEoRy
For some reason people get that 350-375 degree stuck in their head.
Learned it early from my Grandmother, 275 in an electric frying pan with crisco...........and always thighs..........delicious


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## Lucretia (Aug 25, 2017)

My granny made great fried chicken. Don't remember exactly what she did, but she also cooked at a lower temperature with a lid on for the first part of the fry time. She also turned the chicken fairly often. She soaked the chicken overnight in milk or buttermilk, and for the breading she put flour and spices in a brown paper bag, shook the the excess milk off the chicken pieces, dropped them in the bag and gave it a good shake before cooking in peanut oil. Sometimes electric fry pan, sometimes cast iron skillet.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 25, 2017)

Thanks all. My take away it to lower the oil temp

Razor--Hum, I'd been thinking the oil needs to be cooler too. All recipes including TKeller says fry in 325 and above. I do use fried dark meat for sandwiches. 
PT--I think I tried self rising flour at one point. I'm trying to minimize as many variables as I can till I nail it. 
Theory--Love the idea of adding ranch. I bet I could add dry ranch to the flour too. 
Lucretia--Have tried the lid closed first 1/2 cook, flip chicken then finish cooking. Probably a good way to go, I just think I've been cooking at too high heat. Also, the best Southern fried chicken I've had was single dredge and drop it into hot oil. They weren't really sweating the technique, I don't know what its been so hard for me to nail.

Going to try this method:
1.) Rub whole chickens (Cornish game hens) with kosher salt, dash of sugar and leave open in the refrigerator for a couple of days. Flipping them daily. Break them into an 8 piece.
2.) First a buttermilk soak (I think all I have is Dugh), dredge in seasoned flour w/some corn starch.
3.) Deep fry in glazed cast iron at 275 lid, not turning but making sure they don't stick.

Try to keep it simple. I'll report back.


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## Duckfat (Aug 25, 2017)

At home I'm pretty content deep frying until I get a nice gold exterior and then I finish in the oven on a baking rack over a sheet pan. No double dredge here. I want a nice thin crust. 

Dave


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## OliverNuther (Aug 25, 2017)

Have you had a look at the Serious Eats take on it? I've not tried this one myself but a lot of their ideas are on the money. 

http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-best-southern-fried-chicken.html


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## Talim (Aug 25, 2017)

Think of it as making french fries. Cook on the lower end till it's nearly cooked all the way through then crank up the heat for the crispy outside. I like to marinate mine in fish sauce. Then garlic powder and pepper before coating in flour. If I wanted a thicker coating I dip in egg before coating in flour.


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## TheCaptain (Aug 25, 2017)

Talim said:


> Think of it as making french fries. Cook on the lower end till it's nearly cooked all the way through then crank up the heat for the crispy outside. I like to marinate mine in fish sauce. Then garlic powder and pepper before coating in flour. If I wanted a thicker coating I dip in egg before coating in flour.



OMG we need a drool icon...


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## panda (Aug 25, 2017)

Brine overnight, sous vide 162degF for an hour, let cool. Dunk in buttermilk, then dredge in flour, wondra, baking powder, seasonings. Fry on 325 one minute.


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## El Pescador (Aug 25, 2017)

Razor said:


> You obviously know what you are doing in the kitchen. I grew up in Louisiana and fried chicken is a staple. Earlier this year I had the best fried chicken and waffles of my 60+ years in a small restaurant in Oceanside, CA. What they do that I have been somewhat successful in replicating is this: They use only chicken thighs that they debone and butterfly at the thickest part. Then overnight in buttermilk, and then dredge in breadcrumbs. I think the secret is how fast the butterflied boneless thigh cooks. I realize this is not necessarily an answer to your question on how to solve the problem of whole cut up fried chicken, but it is all I do now.
> 
> Other than that I do remember that in the 60's the best home cooks were using lard and/or Crisco and not the currently popular peanut oil. One other important factor is to not submerge the pieces but only let the oil get 1/2 way up the pieces and turn only once. This is typically done in a shallow cast iron pan and not a pot.



What was the name of the place you ate at in Oceanside?


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## Razor (Aug 26, 2017)

El Pescador said:


> What was the name of the place you ate at in Oceanside?



"That Boy Good" https://www.thatboygoodbbq.com/


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## WhiteLightning (Aug 26, 2017)

\de-lurk

Al's Chickenette. Hays Kansas.
(if I could drop a mic, I would)

Otherwise I'm with Panda (pretty much... but think its important to let the meat air dry at least an hr)

WL
/re-lurk


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## WOK-a-holic (Aug 26, 2017)

Razor said:


> "That Boy Good" https://www.thatboygoodbbq.com/



you guy's should try, COLIMA'S (Mexican food) in Oceanside, the biggest carne asada burrito, you will EVER find ANYWHERE. 
...but LAS BRISAS in fallbrook ca (aviation & main st ) is the best.


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## chinacats (Aug 26, 2017)

No idea what they did to it but I liked the chicken from Harold's(?) in Chicago as much as any I've had...bit of a sketchy drive but well worth it. Maybe it wasn't that great but I love the way it was served.

As an aside I can't think of any difference it would make but in my mind you should be using raw cast iron for this vs enamel. That said, I'm betting your rejects are still pretty tasty.


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## ThEoRy (Aug 26, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> Dredge in seasoned flour. Ranch packets are really good.





Mucho Bocho said:


> Theory--Love the idea of adding ranch. I bet I could add dry ranch to the flour too.



YES, ranch flour! People love ranch!

Let us know of your future success. And pics or it didn't happen.


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## boomchakabowwow (Aug 28, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> This is a lot more simple than people make it. Just don't fry it at a high temp. Do not double dip in dredge.
> 
> 
> Buttermilk overnight. Ranch packets are good.
> ...



i'm gonna try this. lower temp! 

i was always preached to to hit that 350ish mark. it actually burns the crust usually.

i'm gonna make onion rings anyways..all that hot oil........... 

and i am going to use my wok. in the backyard.


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## ThEoRy (Aug 28, 2017)

panda said:


> sous vide 162degF for an hour



If you are going to sous vide that's way too high and kind of defeats the purpose of sous vide. I do 145 degrees F for 3.5-4 hours. It's a superior end result. More tender, much less moisture loss and a better chew.


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## WildBoar (Aug 28, 2017)

Am I the only one who can't see the pics of Dennis's attempts this past weekend?

:viking:


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## DamageInc (Aug 28, 2017)

I just use the serious eats recipe, and the only cut I use is de-boned and de-skinned chicken thighs. Skins are fried separately as I don't like how it creates a barrier if left on. Works pretty well, but people prefer fried chicken in so many different ways, so it's hard to say what will appeal to you personally.

I don't like the breading to be too hard, so I don't double fry. The oil I use is rapeseed or sunflower depending on what I have. I once used duck fat, but it was too much. I would imagine deep frying in chicken fat would be fun to try.


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## cenc (Aug 28, 2017)

Where I work, we tenderize the chicken breast after butterflying. 
They get marinated in buttermilk whisked with kosher salt(1/2 cup to 1Q buttmilk) and other spices over night. They get breaded in spiced flour, nothing too special. I enjoy how juicy it can turn out. I like to believe the kosher salt buttermilk mix really soaks into the tenderized sinews of the meat quite well.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 28, 2017)

Thanks guys, I made a batch I sent the pic's to DaveB to post. I can never get it right. 

Soo, my favorite way to cook French fries is to cook them in cold oil, crank the heat and wait till the float and get brown. Brilliantly simply really. I thought, maybe this would work with chicken? 

I used 80% bread flour to 20% bread crumbs. Cook the chicken until it became brown and crispy. Left untouched in oil for first 30 min. Took about 45 min overall.

Good:
Decent texture to crust. Because of the long cook at low heat 280 F the skin rendered nicely and stuck to the chicken. Produced nice audible crunch with lots of little crispy bits that were delicious, almost more so than the meat. 

Bad:
Chicken was over cooked. Crust could have been lighter overall. The color to the crust was terrible.

Take Away: I don't think cooking in strait cold oil is a good technique for fried chicken. Maybe leave it for confit.

Overall: C-


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## malexthekid (Aug 28, 2017)

ThEoRy said:


> If you are going to sous vide that's way too high and kind of defeats the purpose of sous vide. I do 145 degrees F for 3.5-4 hours. It's a superior end result. More tender, much less moisture loss and a better chew.


How long do you fry for after that? Just until golden?


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## daveb (Aug 28, 2017)

Im going to try. Posting pics has become very trying......




















































Dennis - you owe me lunch. And im changing my email addy[emoji41]


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## TheCaptain (Aug 28, 2017)

Mmmmm...


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## labor of love (Aug 28, 2017)

Just curious....everyone here has had Popeyes fried chicken atleast once in their life, right?


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## WildBoar (Aug 28, 2017)

Nothing better then a few pieces of their spicy fried chicken and some fries. cleans the grease off your hands after working on a car 1,000 times better then pumice 

And yeah, I've had their fried chicken at least once. Probably a couple of hundred times, actually. It is by far my favorite.


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## ThEoRy (Aug 29, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> How long do you fry for after that? Just until golden?



Well yeah, you just want to crisp up the outside and make the center hot. If it was ice cold in the center maybe 3-4 minutes at 325.


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## boomchakabowwow (Sep 3, 2017)

Well. I sucked. 

Pan fried chicken. Had a tough time not burning crust and getting the inside to temp. 

Fail!
A pan is a much smaller volume of oil. Temp changes quickly. Up. Mostly up.


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## boomchakabowwow (Sep 3, 2017)

On the bright side, my 10" griswald pan is seasoned awesome again. It is jet black and greasy looking. Dry.


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## Noodle Soup (Sep 4, 2017)

Well I fell for it again. It seems like every "the best fried chicken recipe ever" always calls for buttermilk. Never works for me. I tried again last night with the overnight soak in buttermilk and ended up with something I considered barely eatable. Definitely not extra crispy.
Here is the way I normally do it. 
Shake chicken parts in a mix of flour, salt, pepper and paprika. Brown on both sides at 375 in peanut oil. Drain off excess oil and lower temp to 260. Cook for 35-40 minutes. Raise heat again and drain off the liquids. Drain chicken on paper towels and let cool a little. Eat. I remember both my of farmer grandmother's being better but I don't know how they did it. I do know there was NO buttermilk involved.


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## Razor (Sep 4, 2017)

WOK-a-holic said:


> you guy's should try, COLIMA'S (Mexican food) in Oceanside, the biggest carne asada burrito, you will EVER find ANYWHERE.
> ...but LAS BRISAS in fallbrook ca (aviation & main st ) is the best.



I misread your post and my brain defaulted to "best carne asada burrito" rather than "biggest". No wonder this morning I didn't think it was that special. But yes it was huge. There is a roadside mini mart off the 94 in Dulzura that is cooking carne asada to order over an open wood fire. Smoky with great seasoning. On the top of my list of "best". Delzura Mini Mart 17023 Highway 94, Dulzura, CA, 91917


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## DamageInc (Sep 5, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> Well I fell for it again. It seems like every "the best fried chicken recipe ever" always calls for buttermilk. Never works for me. I tried again last night with the overnight soak in buttermilk and ended up with something I considered barely eatable. Definitely not extra crispy.
> Here is the way I normally do it.
> Shake chicken parts in a mix of flour, salt, pepper and paprika. Brown on both sides at 375 in peanut oil. Drain off excess oil and lower temp to 260. Cook for 35-40 minutes. Raise heat again and drain off the liquids. Drain chicken on paper towels and let cool a little. Eat. I remember both my of farmer grandmother's being better but I don't know how they did it. I do know there was NO buttermilk involved.



What is it about buttermilk that you don't like? Can't get it crispy enough? The taste?


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## TheCaptain (Sep 5, 2017)

This thread makes me very grateful I live within 1-2 hours driving distance of some really, Really good fried chicken.


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## boomchakabowwow (Sep 5, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> Well I fell for it again. It seems like every "the best fried chicken recipe ever" always calls for buttermilk. Never works for me. I tried again last night with the overnight soak in buttermilk and ended up with something I considered barely eatable. Definitely not extra crispy.
> Here is the way I normally do it.
> Shake chicken parts in a mix of flour, salt, pepper and paprika. Brown on both sides at 375 in peanut oil. Drain off excess oil and lower temp to 260. Cook for 35-40 minutes. Raise heat again and drain off the liquids. Drain chicken on paper towels and let cool a little. Eat. I remember both my of farmer grandmother's being better but I don't know how they did it. I do know there was NO buttermilk involved.



me too. my attempt started with buttermilk as well.

i'm gonna file this under "best left to the restuaurants" like Pho, and Menudo.


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 5, 2017)

Boom, I've been at it pretty consistently for almost 20 years and still haven't nailed it. I will some day but there will be a lot of yard birds under the bridge before that day.


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## benito (Sep 9, 2017)

when i get my chicken home i will cut it up and salt it immediately, place it in a bag and let it just kinda self-marinate for a day.

i like to add fresh pureed green onions into my buttermilk, lemon zest and aleppo. a splash of shoyu in there is nice too.

for breading i like a mix of wondra and AP.

in a fryer, i try to keep it 275 - 300. 


hot sauce: sambal+honey+lime juice and zest. 

garnish with scallion, thai basil, cilanto.


or, if i boned out the thighs, i like to combine hot sauce ride+garnish greens with hellmans, place everything in the middle of a potato bun.


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 9, 2017)

Benito. Hum could be on to something here. I'm going put this together this weekend. Thanks


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## wilburh (Sep 10, 2017)

I can't cook fried chicken like my grandmother either...nobody can. The chicken ain't the same! My grandmother stepped into the backyard, wrung a couple of chicken's necks, and had a really good plate of fried chicken in an hour. Plain truth is, we can't buy, beg, borrow or steal the same ingredients that our grandmothers used to cook that delicious fried chicken. Anything you come up with that's close will be the best you can do....just sayin'. My wife cooks some "pretty good" stuff by browning the pieces in a cast iron skillet and then finishes in the oven. It's not that difficult....just take your time and don't overthink the task. I can't do it myself because I don't take my time and overthink everything. Seriously, I can't do it!!!


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## Mucho Bocho (Sep 10, 2017)

I bought a chicken, chopped it up, seasoned it, let it rest, then butter milked it for a few hours. Then I chickened out. 

Decided to add some Persian meat grilling spices and cooked it on a well heated cast iron grill pan.


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## WildBoar (Sep 10, 2017)

Mucho Bocho said:


> I bought a chicken, chopped it up, seasoned it, let it rest, then butter milked it for a few hours. Then I chickened out.
> 
> Decided to add some Persian meat grilling spices and cooked it on a well heated cast iron grill pan.


:lol2:

It's just a chicken. They'll make more


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## Noodle Soup (Sep 11, 2017)

wilburh said:


> I can't cook fried chicken like my grandmother either...nobody can. The chicken ain't the same! My grandmother stepped into the backyard, wrung a couple of chicken's necks, and had a really good plate of fried chicken in an hour. Plain truth is, we can't buy, beg, borrow or steal the same ingredients that our grandmothers used to cook that delicious fried chicken. Anything you come up with that's close will be the best you can do....just sayin'. My wife cooks some "pretty good" stuff by browning the pieces in a cast iron skillet and then finishes in the oven. It's not that difficult....just take your time and don't overthink the task. I can't do it myself because I don't take my time and overthink everything. Seriously, I can't do it!!!



Same chicken I grew up on.  Some of ours were so "free range" we actually used a .22 rifle in the head to bring them in. One grandmother tended to chop heads but the other had a trick of snapping their heads off by twirling them around her head.


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## sachem allison (Sep 27, 2017)

INGREDIENTS:
	3 cups buttermilk
	1/3 cup coarse salt
	2 tablespoons sugar
	2-1/2 to 3 pounds meaty chicken pieces (breast halves, thighs, and drumsticks)
	2 cups all-purpose flour
	1/4 teaspoon salt
	1/4 teaspoon black pepper
	3/4 cup buttermilk
	Cooking oil



METHOD:
1.	For brine, in a resealable plastic bag set in a bowl combine the 3 cups buttermilk, the coarse salt, and sugar. Cut chicken breasts in half crosswise. Add all chicken pieces to the brine; seal bag. Chill for 2 to 4 hours; remove chicken from brine. Drain chicken; pat dry with paper towels. Discard brine.
2.	In a large bowl combine flour, the 1/4 teaspoon salt, and pepper. Place the 3/4 cup buttermilk in a
shallow dish. Coat chicken with flour mixture. Dip in the buttermilk; coat again with flour mixture.
3.	Meanwhile, in a deep, heavy Dutch oven or kettle, or a deep-fat fryer, heat 1-1/2 inches oil to 350º degrees F. Using tongs carefully add a few pieces of chicken to Dutch oven. (Oil temperature will drop; maintain temperature at 325º degrees F.) Fry chicken for 12 to 15 minutes or until chicken is no longer pink (170º degrees F for breasts; 180º degrees F for thighs and drumsticks), and coating is golden, turning once. Drain on paper towels. Keep fried chicken warm in a 300º degree F oven while frying remaining chicken pieces.


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## guitarmanchu (Oct 3, 2017)

This is gonna sound like heresy, but pressure cook it to blast the collagen, then chill it to firm it up before frying. Because it's fully cooked and tender before you even start frying, you get elite control over the color and texture of the crust without worrying about under/overcooking the chicken. It's unorthodox, but I get consistently rave reviews for it.


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## DamageInc (Oct 4, 2017)

guitarmanchu said:


> This is gonna sound like heresy, but pressure cook it to blast the collagen, then chill it to firm it up before frying. Because it's fully cooked and tender before you even start frying, you get elite control over the color and texture of the crust without worrying about under/overcooking the chicken. It's unorthodox, but I get consistently rave reviews for it.



shhh, don't say stuff like that too loudly

everyone knows it's best to fry from raw


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## Razor (Oct 4, 2017)

DamageInc said:


> shhh, don't say stuff like that too loudly
> 
> everyone knows it's best to fry from raw



I am going to try this in a couple of days and will report back. I have heard of parboiling, but the pressure cooker speeds things up. The chill is a concept I had not heard of. I love not having to worry if the thighs are cooked to the bone. What kind of and what process do you dredge with?


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## guitarmanchu (Oct 4, 2017)

The usual - flour, then buttermilk, then flour + spices. I usually add a touch of trisol but that's just personal preference.


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## QCDawg (Oct 6, 2017)

What grandma did.and its missed a lot...including all through this great chain/ thread.. (with fabulous crust ideas and recipes ) is... 

Grandma .....COVERED THE POT ...for most of the cooking. 12in cast iron.. deep, but with a cover at the ready. When it was flipped twice and cooked through..(no crust lost)... she removed the cover and put the screwes to the flame and the bird. 

Brined b4...for sure +great dredge/ crust, thats a given... SALTED, again... OFF THE FLAME, WHILE RESTING on paper towels. Git r dun.


QUOTE=wilburh;510562]I can't cook fried chicken like my grandmother either...nobody can. The chicken ain't the same! My grandmother stepped into the backyard, wrung a couple of chicken's necks, and had a really good plate of fried chicken in an hour. Plain truth is, we can't buy, beg, borrow or steal the same ingredients that our grandmothers used to cook that delicious fried chicken. Anything you come up with that's close will be the best you can do....just sayin'. My wife cooks some "pretty good" stuff by browning the pieces in a cast iron skillet and then finishes in the oven. It's not that difficult....just take your time and don't overthink the task. I can't do it myself because I don't take my time and overthink everything. Seriously, I can't do it!!![/QUOTE]


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## Razor (Oct 6, 2017)

Tried the pressure cooker parboil method last night. Although I overcooked things a bit in the pressure cooker, after flour dredge, buttermilk, flour dredge in an open cast iron pan I was able to focus on the crust knowing the chicken was cooked through on the thighs. I did not parboil the breast, I cut off the tenders and cut the breast in half. It came out awesome. I plan to repeat tomorrow and refine the process.

Someone above mentioned grandma covering the cast iron pan. The only thing this will do is condense the moisture in the pan and drip water in in the oil causing a lot of splatter. Skip the lid and use a mesh splatter protector.


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## guitarmanchu (Oct 6, 2017)

Brine the chicken overnight and it'll retain more moisture and won't seem overcooked.


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