# Knife Newb Questions ???



## NewAndConfused (Feb 27, 2016)

Hello and thanks for taking the time to stop by and answer. I am new to the board and good knives in general. I have been doing a lot of reading as I wanted to get some new knives for my wife who does most of the cooking. I had really wanted to get a couple of Japanese knives to start, and add from there over time. Before I did much reading, I ordered a Dalstrong 9.5 inch. After I did some reading I returned the Dalstrong without even opening the box ( making progress in my learning!) The more I read, the more I realized that Japanese knives require more special care and upkeep than they would receive in my home since I have teenagers that would abuse them and leave them wet, dirty, try to open cocconuts with them, etc. I went to look at knives at Bed Bath Beyond to see what the Shun knives were like (thinking maybe I could lock them up away from the monkey children). While contemplating a purchase a turned around and saw a 8 piece set of Henckels 4 Star clearanced for $119 ($199 originally). With another 20% off from a coupon this was a no-brainer purchase. I ordered a matching 7" Santoku that came with a cutting board for $80. So, for under $200 I got some pretty good knives (shaved the hair off my arm and sliced newspaper like a razer OOB.) Wife happy, mission accomplished. 

Now, after doing further research on the knives I purchased, I found out they have a 15 degree angle and 10 degree on the santoku, but they are still only a 57 Rockwell hardness steel. (the paperwork that came with them shows sharpening to 20 degrees- must be outdated?) So am I correct in my understanding that these are going to require a whole lot of honing and fine sharpening since the softer steel wont hold that edge very long? What kind of regiment should I be using? Edge Pro 1000 and 3000 grit plus strop with buffing compound? Is the steel that came with the set worth using?

Also I still want a Japanese high carbon knife for myself to learn on. I was thinking a sushi knife- maybe a 240-270mm Yanagiba with a wa handle. $150 or less price range would be preferrable, something hard but good for a beginner and not too chippy. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!


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## chinacats (Feb 27, 2016)

you should have come here before buying a set of anything...instead of buying a yani, you should buy a decent gyuto first. You'll want to get off the edge pro before you progress to single bevel knives anyway...

and Welcome!


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## richard (Feb 27, 2016)

I swear all the Amazon reviews of the Dalstrong are fake. They all have attached pictures and go into longer than average in detail.


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## NewAndConfused (Feb 27, 2016)

chinacats said:


> you should have come here before buying a set of anything...instead of buying a yani, you should buy a decent gyuto first. You'll want to get off the edge pro before you progress to single bevel knives anyway...
> 
> and Welcome!



Thanks for the welcome  Yes, I should have come here and asked questions first, but I did do a lot of reading (some of the posts here, too). I see people use the "Why you no" meme saying "Why you no use Gyuto?" I want the yanagabi for sashimi and because it's something different and exotic. I really like the looks of the Kiritsuke as well, but I think that is even less of a beginner knife. 

Maybe I should of posted this question in the sharpening section, but what can I expect of 15 and 10 degree angles on the softer steel? Am I going to be having to do a lot of touch up to keep them sharp?

Thanks!


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## NewAndConfused (Feb 27, 2016)

richard said:


> I swear all the Amazon reviews of the Dalstrong are fake. They all have attached pictures and go into longer than average in detail.



Yes, I came to the conclusion that they are fake and or really biased. A lot of the reviews are from people who got the knife for free or got a really big discount on them. Their marketing scheme is too slick for my liking. They tout their knife as Japanese v10 steel, but the knife is mass produced in China. They make the knives all flashy and put the faux damascus on the side, throw in a few extras like a blade guard and special cloth. Then they give their knives to people who don't know much about knives and have them review them on Amazon. Finally they pay Amazon to be sponsored so every time you look for a knife, they are all up in your face. 

It would probably be ok if it were $60 instead of $120. The one review I saw from a chef said it was "Ok". So I think it's probably like a Chinese version of a Tojiro DP.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Feb 27, 2016)

NewAndConfused said:


> Thanks for the welcome  Yes, I should have come here and asked questions first, but I did do a lot of reading (some of the posts here, too). I see people use the "Why you no" meme saying "Why you no use Gyuto?" I want the yanagabi for sashimi and because it's something different and exotic. I really like the looks of the Kiritsuke as well, but I think that is even less of a beginner knife.



Although you can find a yanagiba for $150, the caution "caveat emptor" should be kept in mind. It's false economy to get one with a warped blade or poor grinds, as you'll never be able to maintain it. I would suggest that you increase your budget a bit and get a Gesshin Uraku from Japanese Knife Imports. Jon Broida stands behind what he sells. 

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...products/gesshin-uraku-270mm-white-2-yanagiba



> Maybe I should of posted this question in the sharpening section, but what can I expect of 15 and 10 degree angles on the softer steel? Am I going to be having to do a lot of touch up to keep them sharp?
> 
> Thanks



When I read your post about edge angles I was a little unbelieving that the values in your post were correct, but I went to the Henckels website and confirmed them. The angles seem to be very acute for the steel, but I'll not argue with the manufacturer's specs. I will be surprised if the edges stand up to much use before needing attention.

It's been several years since I used my Wusthof Grand Prix santoku, but I recall putting a fifteen degree per side edge on it and having to touch it up every other use or so. If I were to use it today, I'd probably put a healthy microbevel on the edge, somewhere around twenty to twenty-five degrees. You might keep this in mind if you have edge retention issues with your knives.

Rick


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## olpappy (Feb 27, 2016)

The steel of the Henckels will hold an edge better with a 20 degree sharpening than it would if you sharpened at 15 degrees. It won't be hair splitting sharp but sharp enough to get the job done without having to be touched up constantly. Most home users would not notice any problems in normal use, and it should be able to take occasional abuse from your teenagers as well.


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## evimoore (Jun 12, 2016)

My apologies if I sound like a troll on my first post. I came here to get some gift ideas for a friend of mine who is a professional cook at a Four Seasons Hotel. 

I own 2 Dalstrong knives - their Shogun Series Santoku and their utility knife. I personally think they're both quality knives. The Damascus steel isn't fake, and the overall construction of both knives is quality. I don't fault people for maintaining a degree of skepticism about Dalstrong, given the fact that the company and its products appear to be new, and because they've waged an aggressive marketing campaign on Amazon. At first glance it appears suspicious that many of their initial reviews appeared to be from people who received the products for a significant discount, or free. But then again, how else is a new company supposed to get its name out, and market its product, except by aggressive advertising and giving its product away for reviewers to rate in the hopes people will like the product, and recommend it to others? It doesn't necessarily mean their products are not good quality. A lot of the newer reviews seem to be from legitimate owners.


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## daveb (Jun 12, 2016)

Is there a question?


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## Mucho Bocho (Jun 12, 2016)

What is the one thing that gets bigger the more you cut it? 

A hole.


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## DWells (Jun 12, 2016)

Speaking of aggressive marketing campaigns...


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## evimoore (Jun 12, 2016)

DWells said:


> Speaking of aggressive marketing campaigns...



I'm a medical provider, not a sales person for this company. If you want to come to the West Palm Beach, FL Veterans Affairs hospital and check into the radiology department, you can see for yourself. 

I'm just saying people have opinions about this brand of knife that are not based on ownership. I came here to read up on knives a bit more in order to choose something appropriate for some chef friends of mine in Istanbul, Turkey when I saw this thread. I was contemplating getting my friends what I have, but I thought I'd consider other possibilities.


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## evimoore (Jun 12, 2016)

daveb said:


> Is there a question?



I was just making a statement before Daveb, but now I'll ask a simple question. You're probably a lot more knowledgeable about knives than I am. Why do you think this particular brand doesn't make good knives?


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## chinacats (Jun 12, 2016)

Evimoore, there are many knives here that people have not tried...and quite honestly most aren't worth trying. If you've got a budget in mind and an idea of what you want (best to fill out the which knife should I buy questionnaire) you will likely get a very good recommendation that will make you or your friend very happy. That said, I wouldn't expect many people here have tried the knives mentioned and doubt many ever will--there are too many great knives to go around trying some that you know are likely lower quality than the knives of companies towards whose customers they are targeting.


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## daveb (Jun 12, 2016)

evimoore said:


> Why do you think this particular brand doesn't make good knives?



They don't have to. They have Amazon.

In all seriousness they are marketing to the American housewife who wants a knife to impress the neighbors with. A little bling, a little flash and there you go. And I can't say it's not a good knife - I know nothing about them. A (very) quick look makes me think Shun lite.

If you would like info about a knife for a friend please pose the question as such. Filling out the "which knife" questionnaire at the top of this section would be like hitting the easy button. I'm sure it would be a much appreciated gift.

And thanks for your work with the VA. In my experience it's made up of a lot of great people working for an impossible bureaucracy.


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## evimoore (Jun 14, 2016)

chinacats said:


> Evimoore, there are many knives here that people have not tried...and quite honestly most aren't worth trying. If you've got a budget in mind and an idea of what you want (best to fill out the which knife should I buy questionnaire) you will likely get a very good recommendation that will make you or your friend very happy. That said, I wouldn't expect many people here have tried the knives mentioned and doubt many ever will--there are too many great knives to go around trying some that you know are likely lower quality than the knives of companies towards whose customers they are targeting.









daveb said:


> They don't have to. They have Amazon.
> 
> In all seriousness they are marketing to the American housewife who wants a knife to impress the neighbors with. A little bling, a little flash and there you go. And I can't say it's not a good knife - I know nothing about them. A (very) quick look makes me think Shun lite.
> 
> ...




Thank you both for the responses. I've been reading through some of the threads, and I think I have a good idea regarding what I should get. No need to start another thread when all the information I need has already been posted.


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