# Help me pick a Lenovo



## minibatataman (Aug 4, 2020)

I'm indecisive as hell and in need of a laptop for college (lots of papers and internet browsing and occasional streaming). So I decided to let you guys decide. Even though this is the off topic sub I know I'm talking to a predominantly ancient group of people, but I know from previous talks with some members that there's many tech geeks around here, so here's our two options:

Lenovo yoga slim 7: ultra sleek and ultra thin. Crazy powerful to boot. Ryzen 5 4500u + 16gbs ram + 512 SSD. 

Lenovo Thinkpad 490: although it comes with the laughably slower i7-8565u it's still should be fast enough for my regular uses. Also comes with 16/512 gigs. These things are still portable enough and they're built like tanks with magnificent keyboards by all accounts.

So here's my predicament, would you go for the thinner sleeker or the better built one? The mid tier faster one or the high end, premium but slower one?


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## juice (Aug 4, 2020)

minibatataman said:


> I know I'm talking to a predominantly ancient group of people



cheers



minibatataman said:


> So here's my predicament, would you go for the thinner sleeker or the better built one? The mid tier faster one or the high end, premium but slower one?


Do you cart it around a lot? Does the weight matter? Will you be doing a heap of typing on it? Is either screen better for reading? Will it usually be plugged in or do you need to think about battery life? These things matter more than the processor, usually.


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## dafox (Aug 4, 2020)

I just got a Lenovo Yoga 740, quite happy with it. I do find that I'm not using the touch screen or tablet mode.


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## minibatataman (Aug 4, 2020)

juice said:


> cheers
> 
> 
> Do you cart it around a lot? Does the weight matter? Will you be doing a heap of typing on it? Is either screen better for reading? Will it usually be plugged in or do you need to think about battery life? These things matter more than the processor, usually.


I was joking with age comment!
And that's the thing that got me unsure. Non of the other specs matter. The thinkpad is only 250g heavier and 2.4 mm thicker. My current laptop is a 9 year old 17 inch HP. Once you're used to lugging that fridge around these 2 seem very movable. The screen on the thinkpad can be upgraded to basically the same as the other one and the battery life is also very similar. Id be using it to type papers 50% of the time (+1 for Thinkpad) and media consumption and reading and such the other half (+1 yoga)
I know these things matter more but it's pretty much 50-50, it's basically down to the processor and build now, but due to covid I can't try either laptops


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## M1k3 (Aug 4, 2020)

I'd go with the Thinkpad if all the nifty features of the Yoga don't sound like something you would use a lot.


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## minibatataman (Aug 4, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I'd go with the Thinkpad if all the nifty features of the Yoga don't sound like something you would use a lot.





dafox said:


> I just got a Lenovo Yoga 740, quite happy with it. I do find that I'm not using the touch screen or tablet mode.


I wouldn't use them either honestly, but the yoga slim is more of a better built IdeaPad, its not a 2 in 1 or even a touch screen laptop


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## dafox (Aug 4, 2020)

minibatataman said:


> I wouldn't either honestly, the yoga slim is more of a better built IdeaPad, I'm.buying it without these two features to cut cost


I do like the all metal construction.


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## juice (Aug 4, 2020)

Assuming both screens are serviceable, which these days at that level they are, I'd be getting the Thinkpad on the basis of that amount of typing, as much as anything. Until we get to being able to input data telepathically or with solid voice recognition, the keyboard is an incredibly important interface for those who use it a lot.


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## soigne_west (Aug 4, 2020)

I’ve had a surface laptop. for the past 3 years and found myself actually using and liking the touchscreen. But don’t listen to me cause I just bought a MacBook Pro. Generally AMD handles multi threading better. The yoga will do better with multitasking. But just choose what you want.


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## soigne_west (Aug 4, 2020)

juice said:


> Assuming both screens are serviceable, which these days at that level they are, I'd be getting the Thinkpad on the basis of that amount of typing, as much as anything. Until we get to being able to input data telepathically or with solid voice recognition, the keyboard is an incredibly important interface for those who use it a lot.



Agreed on picking the one with better keyboard.


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## juice (Aug 4, 2020)

soigne_west said:


> I’ve had a surface laptop.


I've still got my SP3. Great device, really like it. I used it at uni, and the sub-optimal typing experience is what makes me lean towards the better keyboard.



soigne_west said:


> But don’t listen to me cause I just bought a MacBook Pro


They've FINALLY fixed the keyboards on them now, haven't they? The last few years KBs have been dreadful.


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## soigne_west (Aug 4, 2020)

finally.


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## AT5760 (Aug 4, 2020)

My work computer is an X1. It has treated me very well so far. Comes home every night and gets used both as a laptop and docked desktop. I’ve used the touchscreen functionality only rarely. If you’re a student and not gaming with it, I’d go for the lighter weight. Throw in some books and notepads to your backpack and you won’t want any extra weight.


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## minibatataman (Aug 4, 2020)

soigne_west said:


> finally.


Didn't they basically revert to the old switches basically? I never got the change honestly. They're great devices overall and would be my automatic choice had they not been painfully expensive (the two laptops I mentioned are under 800 dollars compared to twice that for mac) and my utter disdain for macOS


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## panda (Aug 4, 2020)

i know jack sh1t about computers, but in everything i buy always go for the better built one if given the option.


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## soigne_west (Aug 4, 2020)

minibatataman said:


> Didn't they basically revert to the old switches basically? I never got the change honestly. They're great devices overall and would be my automatic choice had they not been painfully expensive (the two laptops I mentioned are under 800 dollars compared to twice that for mac) and my utter disdain to macOS



I don’t know if there similar to the old ones. This is my first Mac. So far I’m enjoying it, I still have my desktop windows machine.


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## kennyc (Aug 5, 2020)

This is my day job as an IT consultant - I do hardware/software management and deployment for SMB's

Between the two, if you're _consuming_ content, go for the Yoga. If you're _creating_ content, get the T490. 



*written on my daily-driver T460


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## inferno (Aug 5, 2020)

minibatataman said:


> I'm indecisive as hell and in need of a laptop for college (lots of papers and internet browsing and occasional streaming). So I decided to let you guys decide. Even though this is the off topic sub I know I'm talking to a predominantly ancient group of people, but I know from previous talks with some members that there's many tech geeks around here, so here's our two options:
> 
> Lenovo yoga slim 7: ultra sleek and ultra thin. Crazy powerful to boot. Ryzen 5 4500u + 16gbs ram + 512 SSD.
> 
> ...



i have had lots of pro/business grade laptops. I think *lenovo T series* are the best. best keyboards and best ergonomy when in use. i liked the older t400-t420 when they still had hardware buttons for volume so you could raise or lower volume by feel in the dark. only the T/X/W series are real thinkpads with good build quality, just so you know. 
one can save a lot of money by buying the 1 year old models when new ones comes out.

*dell latitude atg* has also been good but has sharp corners where you put your hands, so not nearly as ergo. the carrying handle is nice. these use lots of magnesium instead of carbon fiber that the thinkpads use.

i also have a *dell latitude rugged* and its thicker and beefier, more rubber bumpers, the handle is now non tilting. very good. good ergo in use because of the handle.

any of those would be good for about 5-6 years if you get the latest or next latest gen cpu.
try to avoid the most powerful cpus because of heat/sound. get something in the middle imo, then it will be cool and quiet. avoid slim models for the same reason, they have no cooling capacity.


see the 3 silver buttons here, those were worth much imo.






atg with separate volume and mute buttons




newer semi rugged latitude with hidden ports






really solid build with rubber bumpers allround.





i used to fly a lot with one of the rugged ones. best part is when the computer goes through the xray-machine and the customs people asks me to remove the computer from the carrying case, and you explain to them that there is no case. "the case"* is* the computer!


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## F-Flash (Aug 5, 2020)

I was facing this same situtiation as I start school soon and ordered Lenovo e14 gen 2 amd, with ryzen 5 u4500, 8gb ddr4 and 256gb ssd

+ side is that you can update ram and ssd later, for it has free slot for both and chassis should be sturdy enough even thought it is just e series. 

Downside I think will be the smaller battery size and screen with only 250-300 nits depending which manufacturer screen you get in the lottery. But you could just update screen later on if it really bothers you. 

I was on pretty tight budget and decided to pick e14 with these specs, instead of yoga, which would have been 150€ more with same specs.

I ended up paying around 600€ with some discounts. E14 with amd have since been taken off from site due to high demand attleast here in Finland.

Haven't received it yet, so cannot comment further about quality. Should get it in few weeks.


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## TurboScooter (Aug 5, 2020)

I bought a T490 for my mother last Black Friday. I think they're thin and light enough and you don't need a dongle for every freakin' thing because THIN THIN THIN at all costs. One RAM is soldered, so I went with 16GB soldered and put in a spare 16 in the free slot myself. Upgrade cost to 512GB NVMe SSD was stupid expensive if ordered through Lenovo so I went with the 256 and put in a 512GB Samsung 970 myself. Went with the low power IPS display option.

Removing the bottom cover is kind of a pain - you have to pry it off and a few of the clips don't want to let go easily and it feels like it's gonna break. Keyboard is top load, so if it needs replacing it's not too bad.


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## juice (Aug 5, 2020)

TurboScooter said:


> I think they're thin and light enough and you don't need a dongle for every freakin' thing because THIN THIN THIN at all costs.


Good decision, I reckon. That trash can Mac Pro was the height of stupid design, needing breakouts for everything because it was peak Jony Ive.


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## minibatataman (Aug 5, 2020)

F-Flash said:


> I was facing this same situtiation as I start school soon and ordered Lenovo e14 gen 2 amd, with ryzen 5 u4500, 8gb ddr4 and 256gb ssd
> 
> + side is that you can update ram and ssd later, for it has free slot for both and chassis should be sturdy enough even thought it is just e series.
> 
> ...


Here in the Netherlands both the yoga and the E14 are around 750, I was actually initially torn between those two but decided that if I'm going the Thinkpad route I might want to go all the way and get a T series. The E looked a bit chunkier and I wasn't impressed by the i/o but there's none to be found in shops, just online. Can you share pics and your thoughts on it when it arrives?


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## F-Flash (Aug 5, 2020)

minibatataman said:


> Can you share pics and your thoughts on it when it arrives?



Sure, but take it with grain of salt. I haven't had laptop in 10 years, so anything new to me will be giant leap sized of grand canyon compared to what I've used in the past.


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## daveb (Aug 5, 2020)

Following.

I'm in the process of replacing a failed laptop. Prob going with an HP at the 600 price point. Big attraction is Costco sells it and doubles the mfr warranty. I do no gaming. Zero. Some "work" stuff from home - will load the microsoft knock offs. Internet, streaming, etc.

Heard good things about Levano, is it worth more shopping? It's probably dating me but my only experience with Dell is a laptop I bought awhile ago that came with a POS modem in it. Yes there was life before wi-fi.


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## M1k3 (Aug 5, 2020)

Oh god... laptop with a modem.....


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## daveb (Aug 5, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Oh god... laptop with a modem.....



It was pretty fast for it's day. 2 or 3 Hz if I recall.....


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## bbrooks008 (Aug 5, 2020)

inferno said:


> i have had lots of pro/business grade laptops. I think *lenovo T series* are the best. best keyboards and best ergonomy when in use. i liked the older t400-t420 when they still had hardware buttons for volume so you could raise or lower volume by feel in the dark. only the T/X/W series are real thinkpads with good build quality, just so you know.
> one can save a lot of money by buying the 1 year old models when new ones comes out.


+1 for Lenovo T series. Extremely well built, and good keyboard too. I have used a T460 for work and an old T420 at home for the past several years


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## inferno (Aug 5, 2020)

daveb said:


> Following.
> 
> I'm in the process of replacing a failed laptop. Prob going with an HP at the 600 price point. Big attraction is Costco sells it and doubles the mfr warranty. I do no gaming. Zero. Some "work" stuff from home - will load the microsoft knock offs. Internet, streaming, etc.
> 
> Heard good things about Levano, is it worth more shopping? It's probably dating me but my only experience with Dell is a laptop I bought awhile ago that came with a POS modem in it. Yes there was life before wi-fi.



imo most if not all laptops under a grand will be POS. unless they are pro grade, last years model.
if you buy a pro grade laptop you can have it for 5-6 years most likely until it gets too slow. and it will last mechanically for that time.

all the laptops above i posted i have had/used for 3-6years. the rugged one is 3-4y now. all of them were used every day.

just look at the dell/lenovo sites and look at the current models.

buy once, cry once!!

most of these cheap laptop are cheap for a good reason. its **** hardware. its only made to last 1-2 years.

started up my thinkpad T about 1 year ago. hadn't used it for 2-3 years. the battery was still at 85% when it booted up. and i had lost about 3-4% in total. and that computer is 10 years old now!


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## panda (Aug 5, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Oh god... laptop with a modem.....


aol, you've got mail!!

you open it and it gives your computer internet aids


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## minibatataman (Aug 8, 2020)

Update for those who care: ended up with going with neither 
I found a newer thinkpad, t14, it's an i5 but 10th gen so it should be a lil faster than the t490
Scored it for even less than either of the other two so I'm happy with that too


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## Luftmensch (Aug 8, 2020)

minibatataman said:


> Update for those who care: ended up with going with neither
> I found a newer thinkpad, t14, it's an i5 but 10th gen so it should be a lil faster than the t490
> Scored it for even less than either of the other two so I'm happy with that too



Nice one. Enjoy. I am a serial Thinkpad user... my advice was hardly going to be free of bias 

I think you made a good choice. They have served me well.

Ha!! 

I had to look up the T14... I was unfamiliar with the line. The standard 14" ThinkPad line has been the T4xx. It has incremented by 10 every year for the past decade. Once you get to T490... where do you go? I _suspect_ the T14 *is* the 4xx series but they've been forced to update the naming system . I could be wrong.

Enjoy it! 




daveb said:


> Heard good things about Levano, is it worth more shopping?



I wont say whether to buy a Lenovo or not. I have enjoyed them but I'll let you judge your own needs. If you _do_ decide to buy one, they run sales often. If your purchase is not urgent, watch their site and you may be able to score a good discount. The have big sales occasionally (e.g. Black Friday, end of financial year, etc...) and smaller ones frequently. The sales are a bit ridiculous... to the extent that you might be led to believe those are the 'normal' prices and the non-discounted prices are 'special' markups. @inferno 's comment about getting the previous year's model is on point.


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## inferno (Aug 8, 2020)

minibatataman said:


> Update for those who care: ended up with going with neither
> I found a newer thinkpad, t14, it's an i5 but 10th gen so it should be a lil faster than the t490
> Scored it for even less than either of the other two so I'm happy with that too



can you give us a review of the build quality? can you hold it opened in one of the corners without it bending or cracking?
any flex of the keyboard or is it solid? trackpad solid? 
screen viewing angles? any gamma shift?


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## minibatataman (Aug 8, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Nice one. Enjoy. I am a serial Thinkpad user... my advice was hardly going to be free of bias
> 
> I think you made a good choice. They have served me well.
> 
> ...



Haha thanks! 
Yes starting this year the series has been shifted from T4XX and T5XX to T14 Gen 1 and T15 Gen 1.
These are more refreshers of last year's models than a big leap. They're built more or less the same and many parts haven't changed, but it has 10th gen chips and wifi 6 which is nice and the reasons I was leaning towards the yoga over the T490 (horrible speakers, mediocre screen, slower internals) are the parts that have been upgraded so that made my choice for me.

I love Lenovo laptops so I can't say I was any less bias!


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## minibatataman (Aug 8, 2020)

inferno said:


> can you give us a review of the build quality? can you hold it opened in one of the corners without it bending or cracking?
> any flex of the keyboard or is it solid? trackpad solid?
> screen viewing angles? any gamma shift?


I should receive it this Wednesday. Im quite certain you can hold it by a corner only, they're very very solid devices. But I'll put it through some testing myself before I judge this week and report back to you guys


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## minibatataman (Aug 12, 2020)

Quick update. Long story short the seller is a world class douche. Suffice to say some information was not disclosed. 
Silver lining though; turns out the student discount on the Lenovo website is very nice. I ordered a T14s with upgraded internals, will take about 7 work days. Since I need it to be portable this is a better option for me, it's 2mm thinner and about half a pound lighter. It's only has up to 16gbs of ram but that's enough for me.
@inferno I'll be doing my own testing but from what I gather the thinner t14s will actually be stiffer and stronger. The regular T14 top and bottom panels are made out of fiberglass. They're still very very tough but they'll have more give than the magnesium alloy used in the T14s. This also gives a more metallic feel to the device compared to the classic soft touch feel the rubberized T14 has.


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## inferno (Aug 12, 2020)

imo the magnesium is painted so it wont feel like metal. 

imo the best bottom plate material is chopped carbon fiber like the t4xx had. is never feels cold on your skin when you have it in the bed etc. 

best subframe material is cast magnesium. 

best screen top cover material is flexible/bowing polycarbonate, its bowing out some to take up shocks like a spring. after that i like magnesium. 
but i guess CF is good too. if they engineered some flex into it that is. 
the screen subframe should be made out of metal in a hexagonal pattern. 

i think you will be happy with your computer. they dont Fu.. around with the thinkpads. 

classically there have been problems with thin versions of all pro laptops, you cram in a high performance cpu in there but since there is no place for cooling either it will overheat and throttle down or it will simply trotthle down to not overheat. 

now it might be different than a few years ago but i kinda doubt it. it might be less though. you cant fool physics. is the cpu is powerful it creates heat, and it has to go somehwre out of the computer. its easy as that. it might not be a problem though. 

an anecdote: when i got my latest rugged dell. i went into the computer guy at work and asked him if it was something wrong with it. the fan never started. it should start right. but apparently the cpu in my laptop is an ultra low votage one ULV. so it consumes less than 8w usually and it can dissipate this through it chassie. only when i punish it the fan starts. now this was for a 1,6ghz 2,4ghz turbo cpu. 

but it gets quite hot to be honest. 80 degrees C.

so try it out for 1 week. and if you find some heating problem get the full sized version. easy as that. you probably wont. but i would punish it as much as i could before i deciede.

also a good suggestion is to never ever get any extra nvidia/amd/ati graphics card built in. because these create like 3-4-5x as much heat as the cpu! so dont do this!


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## minibatataman (Aug 13, 2020)

inferno said:


> imo the magnesium is painted so it wont feel like metal.
> 
> imo the best bottom plate material is chopped carbon fiber like the t4xx had. is never feels cold on your skin when you have it in the bed etc.
> 
> ...



These new thin and light models have a lower voltage CPU as well, not as low as 8 but 15 while other models like the ideapad can get up to 25. My main uses won't be pushing it that hard so between the better thermals of AMD and the fact that I only occasionally use things like Matlab and rstudio and nothing more intensive, I think the thermals will be decent. I'll definitely be testing it he first days to decide if I'm keeping it however.
I agree about the dGPU, the mobile cards aren't worth it for me. They aren't super powerful and they take up a lot of power, extra cost, and like you said greatly worsen the thermals.


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## inferno (Aug 21, 2020)

review yet?? 

---------------

i just took ownership of my old job computer. it became too old (basically the 3 year warranty ran out) for my job so i was forced by management to stop using it. 

its a 3 year old dell rugged 54xx series. a 4000€ one. loaded 

i think these are the best built computers on this planet today. i reckon i could kill about 3-5 moose and/or bears with it before it stopped working if i had to (with the lid closed). and thats kinda my "gold standard" for durability.


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## minibatataman (Aug 24, 2020)

I finally got a couple days with the laptop to have something to talk about. While I can't see it killing any bears, I'm really happy with it for what I need it for. Keep in mind that I'm moving from a nearly decade old HP so take my remarks with a grain of salt. Also I've never written a review before so don't expect coherent thoughts or well written descriptions.






The laptop looks and feels fantastic. Extremely sturdy with little to no flex throughout. I didn't expect it to be this thin and light in hand. It might not be the thinnest laptop ever but compared to what I had it feels super super thin. With the X1 not having an AMD refresh, this is a very good option for a powerful thin and light. 
The whole thing feels extremely well built and sturdy, it does have the metallic feel of the X series over the rubberized T series feel, but I like that (for the most part, but we'll get back to that).
The keyboard and touchpad are both great, what you'd expect from a thinkpad. The port selection is better than most laptops. The S model removes the Ethernet jack but a dongle is available. It also has no thunderbolt capabilities and no 4K screen options since it's the AMD model and those two are still Intel only perks. But the FHD 400 nitt screen I opted for looks fantastic IMO and as a student who doesn't do any editing it's more than enough. I also wouldn't use an external GPU so thunderbolt isn't that big of a deal. 






For me the extra juice in the AMD model is more than worth the trade off. This thing is very, very powerful. Despite the CPU being capped at a lower wattage than other models with the same processor, it's still faster than anything Intel has to offer for the price, with much better integrated graphics. For me it's more than enough juice for anything I'd use it for, such as matlab and rstudio and other programs, as well as light gaming. If this seems like the sort of tasks you'd use it for then it's a fantastic laptop. I can't see it being used for video editing and 3D modeling but some Photoshop should be fine too. This machine is somewhere in the middle between size and power but the s model I have definitely leans towards the thin and light over too much power. There's also a 4750u model with more power but I'd get the regular T14 with that processor as I feel like this one won't be able to cool it properly.
Which leads us to the main and probably only issue I had with this thing. Thermals. 






Under light loads the laptop is very quiet and cool. But cranking it to performance mode or doing something intensive really ramps it up. The exhaust port is on the right which many complained would bother mouse users, I found it to be more an issue for using it on your lap or just touching the right side, as it got uncomfortably hot at some points. I played some NFS (2015) as it was the only game I had. With the laptop on performance mode and graphics on high, the laptop ran very smoothly and the fans were barely audible. However, you could fry an egg on the right side of the laptop. It got very, very hot very quickly, and stayed that toasty for the whole session. It cooled down as soon as i went back to battery saving mode and went back to file sorting. So keep that in mind if you're using the laptop on your lap. 

To summarize this terribly written post, I really like the laptop. It's very well built and feels very expensive. It's also fast and controls brilliantly.
It does however have mediocre thermals and gets very hot very fast. Many have issues with the bezels and the speakers but I found both to be fine. Coming from the oil tanker that is my old HP the bezels are okay and the speakers are more than adequate, a bit tinny but they sound full and clear. 
This laptop is for anyone who wants something portable first but also packs a serious punch. I've only been using it for a couple of days but so far I'm very very happy with how it performs and feels.


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## inferno (Aug 24, 2020)

heat seems to be the problem with all thin computers. as long as the computer itself dont get hot i'd say its ok. 
this is the reason i like the thicker models. they stay quiet and cool. but you give up weight and size. no way around it.


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## inferno (Oct 15, 2020)

what do you think about that power connector? looks like a usbC connector?

I was looking for a new slim laptop and of course i checked out the thinkpads first. they all seem to have that power connector.
It looks flimsy and fragile as hell. is it? I'm worried i would simply snap the connector off in the socket and maybe kill the mainboard.

so now i'm looking at dells instead. they have old style power connectors.


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## M1k3 (Oct 15, 2020)

Safest power connection I've seen is the Apple magnetic one. Otherwise everyone else's suffer the same problem. An actual physical connection that doesn't pull apart easily. Especially when a side force is applied.


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## Matus (Oct 15, 2020)

soigne_west said:


> ... The yoga will do better with multitasking ...


That is of little relevance since he is a man


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## Matus (Oct 15, 2020)

Apple got rid of those ingenious magnetic power connectors. Sadly.


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## minibatataman (Oct 15, 2020)

Matus said:


> Apple got rid of those ingenious magnetic power connectors. Sadly.


Its making a comeback on the new iphone it seems.. sort of


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## minibatataman (Oct 15, 2020)

inferno said:


> what do you think about that power connector? looks like a usbC connector?
> 
> I was looking for a new slim laptop and of course i checked out the thinkpads first. they all seem to have that power connector.
> It looks flimsy and fragile as hell. is it? I'm worried i would simply snap the connector off in the socket and maybe kill the mainboard.
> ...



Honestly I love that they're USB C
I wouldn't say it isn't any flimsier than any regular barrel plug and because it's USB C it's shallower, I'd reckon it would just fall out and not snap off. 
But that said I only used the included charger for about a month and then replaced it with a portable 65W GaN charger that I use to charge my phone, headphones, nintendo switch, and the laptop. Its much much more convenient for me. 
As for the laptop itself I have yet to find anything on the market that is that thin and light but still sturdy and well built with enough ports for all my uses


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## MarcelNL (Oct 15, 2020)

thinkpads rule!


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## bbrooks008 (Oct 15, 2020)

My T460 power connector is super solid. Not sure if the newer model (T490?) uses the same connector.
Personally, I wouldn't buy another Dell. I had their Latitude Chromebook for a while, and the touchpad was imprecise and annoying.


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## inferno (Oct 15, 2020)

right now i'm considering getting a dell latitude 7400 or 7300. those can be had for about 13-1400€ here after taxes. not the top of the line units but still. 
they are milspec builds just like the thinkpads. 

i have been using a 1-2 year old latitude 74-something at work now for a month or so. and it feels solid for being a thin light computer. actually very solid. screen is top notch and the touchpad is probably the best i have ever tried.


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## daveb (Oct 15, 2020)

I bought a Levano after reading these posts and some on-line reviews. The power connector mentioned above is a bit of a down side, not because it's fragile (it doesn't seem that way) but because it uses a port that could be better utlized. (Seems dumb af to me).

There is an "accessory" charger available that plugs into a conventional port. I'll probably pick one up when I figure which one I need.


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## minibatataman (Oct 15, 2020)

daveb said:


> I bought a Levano after reading these posts and some on-line reviews. The power connector mentioned above is a bit of a down side, not because it's fragile (it doesn't seem that way) but because it uses a port that could be better utlized. (Seems dumb af to me).
> 
> There is an "accessory" charger available that plugs into a conventional port. I'll probably pick one up when I figure which one I need.


Which model though? The T14/s don't have a regular charging port, just 2 USB C ports that can both be used to charge the laptop


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## daveb (Oct 15, 2020)

Mine is the "Flex 5 Idea Pad." So far so good.


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## Luftmensch (Oct 15, 2020)

inferno said:


> It looks flimsy and fragile as hell. is it? I'm worried i would simply snap the connector off in the socket and maybe kill the mainboard.



No.... and yes. What you said is unlikely. I wouldn't worry about the strength of the connection. 

On the downside. I don't like the yellow plastic lip they give it. This is clearly for insulation but my one chipped. Now the connection is loose. Similarly... I have a stress fracture in the cable right near the plug. You have to have the cable positioned just right for it to charge. I am bummed that I will either have to fix the cable or spend money on a new charger... on the other hand, this is after three years of commuting to and from work with my laptop and charger in my backpack. I am not sure a competitors charger would have dealt with that mechanical strain any better....

Fortunately I have a second charger! So I just use the good one...


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## minibatataman (Oct 16, 2020)

I completely forgot about this and the thread reminded me of it. you can find magsafe - like cables that are USB C.
Volta are pretty reputable it seems but I haven't checked them out yet so take it with a grain of salt. But you can get get their 6ft cable that has a detachable tip for under 30 bucks which isn't the cheapest but a very convenient thing. You can buy extra tips too which is nice

Edit: I just noticed they sold out but I'll keep the link as an example.









Volta XLI + 1 Tip


NB: The Volta XL improved is not compatible with Volta XL and Volta 2.0 The Volta XL Improved is a testament to Volta's steady delivery of truly universal cables that satisfies every of your charging need. A strong magnetic cable for your USB C devices that frees you up for the important things...




voltacharger.com


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## inferno (Oct 17, 2020)

minibatataman or anyone else that have a new thinkpad. 

are these prone to overheating?
can you use the laptop in bed? (does it suck air in from the bottom?)
can you adjust and set rules for fan speed/temps in bios?

i'm trying to get my rugged dell working well. the thing is that the idiots at dell have removed the settings to adjust fans, there are no fan setting in bios at all!
and basically the cpu is hovering at 70C when idling, and 85-90 when like watching a vid. and the goddamn fan never comes on!!
the whole bottom plate is metal (no vents under) and it gets so hot that i burn myself on it. there is no way to force the fan coming on.
I can see the rules they have set up for the cooling, up to 100C the computer thinks its cool and ok, and at 105C it shuts down. i dont know *** they were thinking here really. and i dont know why they wont let me change this.

And now i keep reading that the dell 7300/7400 dont have any manual fan control either. and they are prone to overheating. 

so now i'm back looking at thinkpads again.


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## M1k3 (Oct 17, 2020)

inferno said:


> minibatataman or anyone else that have a new thinkpad.
> 
> are these prone to overheating?
> can you use the laptop in bed? (does it suck air in from the bottom?)
> ...


For Dell you'll probably have to go the XPS gaming line or Alienware for fan controls. You might be able to get something like Sepedfan to work though.


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## inferno (Oct 17, 2020)

i'm not using windows anymore. only at work. so the settings has to be in bios independent of the OS.
however even when i used windows on the rugged, it was hot as hell. but then it wasn't my problem.

i remember the first day i got it. after 20 minutes or so i went back up to IT and told them i think the computer is broken. the fan is not running. and the temps are very high. well the fan it is running, like once every 5 minutes or so i get 1 second burst  and during startup/shutdown.


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## M1k3 (Oct 18, 2020)

inferno said:


> i'm not using windows anymore. only at work. so the settings has to be in bios independent of the OS.
> however even when i used windows on the rugged, it was hot as hell. but then it wasn't my problem.
> 
> i remember the first day i got it. after 20 minutes or so i went back up to IT and told them i think the computer is broken. the fan is not running. and the temps are very high. well the fan it is running, like once every 5 minutes or so i get 1 second burst  and during startup/shutdown.


Linux?


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## Luftmensch (Oct 18, 2020)

__





Ubuntu Manpage: thinkfan - A simple fan control program







manpages.ubuntu.com









__





How to control fan speed - ThinkWiki







www.thinkwiki.org


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## inferno (Oct 18, 2020)

i've been reading up on laptops on notebookcheck and it seems almost all of todays "premium" thin laptops will get to about 45-60 deg C if you push them. and this is with working fans. this is **** if you ask me.


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## Luftmensch (Oct 18, 2020)

inferno said:


> "premium" thin laptops



I guess thats the problem? Thin. Quiet. Cool. Currently engineering limits us to choosing two out of the three!

I haven't followed chip design for several years now. I wouldn't be surprised if Intel/AMD were building CPUs with a higher tolerance to heat build up than previous generations. An increasing demand for thin laptops is pushing design towards completely passive cooling or anaemic fans. 


On a related note; if you aren't kind to where/how you use your machine, the cooling system can get clogged. The efficacy of the thermal compound also degrades. If you are running a five year old laptop, the thermal compound may not be doing much passive transfer to the heat sink. Although... after looking up the Dell 7300... it looks like a 2019 model?? So maybe they just cheaped out on thermal dissipation? 


Lastly, 



inferno said:


> idling



You seem like a pretty smart dude... so I am sure you mean idling when you say idling. For completeness, i'll say it anyway  : make sure the machine *is* actually idling... that is, there aren't any rogue background process burning up CPU cycles.


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## inferno (Oct 18, 2020)

the problem today is that all pro grade laptops are thin. there are no thick laptops today. my t400 from 2010 is i dont know 40mm thick. so it has space for a working cooling system. and a good fan. but today the pro grade laptops are 15-20mm.

i've been reading up on several computer forums now and almost all thinkpads also suffer from ****** cooling and very very high cpu/gpu/hd temps.
so its the same across the board.

a consequence of this is that none of the computers can utilize the cpus they have. because in like 2 seconds the cpus will shoot up to 100C and then they clock down to like 0,8-1ghz. WHILE AT THE SAME TIME the fans are running at full blast. now if that isn't an engineering fail of epic proportions i dont know what is.

so in effect that expensive i7 is just a waste of money. the i3 will perform just the same and it might even do it while not overheating the computer.
this is so sad. an entire industry totally incompetent.


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## Luftmensch (Oct 18, 2020)

The majority of office users don't need high performance machines by modern standards. Laptops are being designed to be as power efficient as possible with the capability to do bursts of activity when requested. That suits many people. People who do little more than check emails, write documents and surf the internet.

The last time I purchased a Lenovo (4 years ago) they were at a turning point in the ThinkPad line. Design-wise, the market had pretty mature ultrabook options. Clearly there was a competitive pressure towards thinner and lighter. The 14" format had been my goto (T14 and T4xx) for the preceding decade. They offered a range of very thin (e.g. X1), sort of thin (T4xxs) and normal (T4xx) options. From memory the number of designs with soldered components increased from their thinner models to more of their 'normal' models. Many of of these options also had scaled back CPUs (the low-powered versions).

I decided to purchase a 'P' series ThinkPad. It is currently idling at 55C. The fan is off. Not bad for a four year old laptop. It has a plastic bottom so it is only warm to touch. It is an expensive machine... but closer in philosophy to the older ThinkPads. If you need the power... consider this series. Other gaming laptops may be similar.


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## M1k3 (Oct 18, 2020)

inferno said:


> the problem today is that all pro grade laptops are thin. there are no thick laptops today. my t400 from 2010 is i dont know 40mm thick. so it has space for a working cooling system. and a good fan. but today the pro grade laptops are 15-20mm.
> 
> i've been reading up on several computer forums now and almost all thinkpads also suffer from ****** cooling and very very high cpu/gpu/hd temps.
> so its the same across the board.
> ...


Look at something built on the thicker Clevo chassis's. They have designs that can handle desktop CPU's wattage. Not just the low power ones either.


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## inferno (Oct 28, 2020)

minibatataman said:


> I finally got a couple days with the laptop to have something to talk about. While I can't see it killing any bears, I'm really happy with it for what I need it for. Keep in mind that I'm moving from a nearly decade old HP so take my remarks with a grain of salt. Also I've never written a review before so don't expect coherent thoughts or well written descriptions.
> 
> View attachment 91513
> 
> ...



it turns out i ended up with a t14s too. with 4750, 16 gigs and 1tb. it arrived in 30h after i ordered it from the site.

now i notice that my left speaker has a crackling sound when playing back windows sounds, especially the sound it makes when you adjust the sound level... and also at login. and even at 25% volume it sounds crackled. i find it kinda unlikely the driver is shot. or the amp. and to make it strange: i can't hear any distortion when i play back speech or music. even at max volume. dafuq.

do you get a crackling sound from the windows sounds?

---------------------

the display hinges seems crooked on mine. if i look at it from behind the hingest seems slightly bent. i investigated a bit and it seems like this is because the hinges are only supported on one side, there is no pin going through the whole hinge and into the display. its only one sided.

how does your hinges look?

--------------------------

Bios. is there even a bios in there?? i find some basic settings but no real bios. i mean i can't even set display brightness in the bios. i also find a lot of cryptic crap in there that i have no idea what it does or if i even want. need a phd to figure out what all this crap even does.
trying to find some settings for the cpu. enabling cores/HT/turbo/sleep states etc. couldn't find jack chit about this in bios.

how does your bios look?

-----------------------------------------------------

other than that i kinda like it. its a bit crippled by a ****** bios the absolutely shittiest bios i have ever seen, that lets windows take control of everything.

its looks quite fragile, and at first it feels quite fragile too. but after some use i think it will hold up quite good. it wont last for 8 years, but maybe 3-4.

i will be forced to use win10 with for some time until i figure out what crap i need to disable to make linux work well with it. but win10 actually worked quite well with it so far. just tried it with a recent linux release and i got screen tearing, both touchpad buttons behaves like the left button somehow. and display is at full blast without any way to turn it down. not with the top row buttons or in the menus.


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## Luftmensch (Oct 28, 2020)

Sorry to hear all that. Sounds like a bad experience.



inferno said:


> how does your hinges look?



Aligned well. Pinned only on one side with cables being threaded through the other... _I think_. It is hard to see and I haven't done a tear down. 4-5 years later and they are still strong. They have not loosened significantly, if at all.... Plenty strong!



inferno said:


> how does your bios look?



My bios is simple but comprehensive enough. It looks the same as the ones if you search "Thinkpad bios" and look at the images. Have they changed it recently?



inferno said:


> figure out what crap i need to disable to make linux work well with it.



Depends what version of Linux and what is on your machine? Something popular like Ubuntu aught to offer you 90% functionality out of the box. A recent Ubuntu should play nice with the boot loader. If you choose a different flavour you might have to disable "secure boot" in your BIOS before installing Linux.

Linux always sucks for battery life and hardware that runs on proprietary drivers. The T14s looks like a pretty standard machine - it should be ok. Maybe the live session was just a bit buggy?


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## minibatataman (Oct 29, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Sorry to hear all that. Sounds like a bad experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pretty much my impressions as well. The speakers don't crackle even on startup or adjusting the volume, the hinges are well aligned, they don't look bent to me, QC is mostly good with Lenovo but you might have been unlucky.
As for toughness, maybe the regular T14 would be better suited for you? I feel like this one is sturdy enough for my uses (I always have it in my back pack and I'm not too precious about it)


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## Smidderton (Oct 29, 2020)

I own a thinkpad P1 with a 6-core and am pretty happy so far. Only downside is the coil wine that somethimes occurs...


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## inferno (Oct 30, 2020)

i investigated the left speak crackle problem further. i tried muting the left and right speaker on my job latitude and then raising the volume up and down so i could hear the system sound. and the result is that the latitude behaves exactly the same. left speaker crackles when playing back system sounds. and the odds of that happening is very low. 

so its most likely a problem with the windows audio driver. not the hardware.

the reason i went for the t14s is that i didn't want a glass fiber "shell". i wanted the premium materials. heck even my old t400 is carbon/polycarbonate/magnesium.


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## inferno (Oct 30, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Depends what version of Linux and what is on your machine? Something popular like Ubuntu aught to offer you 90% functionality out of the box. A recent Ubuntu should play nice with the boot loader. If you choose a different flavour you might have to disable "secure boot" in your BIOS before installing Linux.
> 
> Linux always sucks for battery life and hardware that runs on proprietary drivers. The T14s looks like a pretty standard machine - it should be ok. Maybe the live session was just a bit buggy?



i think i will need to run one of the newest kernels because the hardware is so new. i saw someone posted on reddit that they tried kernel 5.8.0 or similar and then everything worked.


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## M1k3 (Oct 30, 2020)

Find out what audio device you have and download their drivers.


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## inferno (Oct 30, 2020)

i dont think i will need to. basically music and vids and stuff sound completely undistorted. its just the system sounds somehow. and i will definitely turn off all system sounds. but i became unsure there for a while about what was going on. send it back or keep it. i think i'm keeping it.


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## inferno (Nov 4, 2020)

allright thought i'd give a t14s amd update from bed. trying it out installed now.
i installed linux on the machine by shrinking the win partition in windows, then format the new one to whatever.

during install i noticed i had to set some pw for secure boot if i wanted the media codecs, weird. so i just turned it off in bios. linux would still boot with it turned on though from usb.

i made 2 partitions for linux from the new partition, one / and one /home. ext4. install. done. bootloader in the windows efi partition.

updated everything and installed kernel 5.8 something. and everything seems to work as far as i can tell.
except for one thing. the touchpad right button is acting as the left button and the left is also the left. the trackpoint buttons work as supposed though. this is no big problem since i just set the touchpad up to register 2 finger clicks as right clicks. no need to click anything at all anymore

scrolling works much better in linux. its night and day. its so good now i almost cream my pants. the whole touchpad works better.

i started to get really really tired and annoyed with win10 about 30 min in. why the fuk does it send me out on the internet when i want to change settings. yeah probably have to wipe it from the system. its such a ****** OS i'm surprised they dont get sued over it. for crimes against humanity.

allinall it was a good computer upgrade. feels really snappy and quick. everything is pretty much immediate. screen is very good (ips 400cd/m2). light weight. runs cool.


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## juice (Nov 4, 2020)

inferno said:


> i started to get really really tired and annoyed with win10 about 30 min in. why the fuk does it send me out on the internet when i want to change settings. yeah probably have to wipe it from the system. its such a ****** OS i'm surprised they dont get sued over it. for crimes against humanity.


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## inferno (Nov 4, 2020)

yeah for example i wanted to make some type of backup usb or file incase my install would ruin something. typed recov, for recovery, in the search bar inside windows. one of the suggestions was "how to make a recovery disc" or whatever it said. i clicked on it and it turns out its ****ing internet link. is this for real?? really?? 

if i wanted to read about how to make one i would have looked it up on the internet. now i just wanted to make one, thats why i searched for it inside the os. and then when i actually found the setting, inside the actual os this time, it couldn't even make any recovery usb. what a ****ing joke.


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## M1k3 (Nov 4, 2020)

So you'd rather have space taken up to store the answer to every question you, little Billy next door and Karen might have?

Or just open control panel, type in "recovery" in the search bar?


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## inferno (Nov 5, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> So you'd rather have space taken up to store the answer to every question you, little Billy next door and Karen might have?
> 
> Or just open control panel, type in "recovery" in the search bar?



no not at all. i just wanted to get to the settings page for that function straight away. but it kinda mixes settings with internet searches. and i dont think even karen nor billy likes that.


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## MarcelNL (Nov 5, 2020)

just ordered an i7 thinkbook T15 for my GF, the alu frame vs a magnesium frame is not likely a big difference


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## daveb (Dec 13, 2020)

Inferno - Do you know of a way to toggle the touch pad on/off. I'm a long time mouse user and not likely to change. The touchpad senses any palm contact, and thumb contact and sometimes even breathing hard. I would like to disable it but be able to bring it back in event I don't have the mouse available.

Thinkpad.


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## inferno (Dec 13, 2020)

there is probably some setting that turns off the touchpad while you write stuff. both in linux and windows i guess. fairly certain of this.

otherwise you might want to look in the "bios" (tap f12 or whatever during startup and then select the setup menu) to see if you can turn off the touchpad completely, but you might not be able too since then you wouldn't be able to do anything with the computer without a mouse. maybe not even navigate the bios.


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## bbrooks008 (Dec 13, 2020)

I had a job interview once where I had to demonstrate a spreadsheet I had built for the interview. They had disabled the touchpad, on a ThinkPad, to see if I could do it without using a mouse (and probably also to see if I would complain about it)


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## juice (Dec 14, 2020)

bbrooks008 said:


> They had disabled the touchpad


Shame you didn't have a spare mouse in your bag


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## rmrf (Dec 14, 2020)

daveb said:


> Inferno - Do you know of a way to toggle the touch pad on/off. I'm a long time mouse user and not likely to change. The touchpad senses any palm contact, and thumb contact and sometimes even breathing hard. I would like to disable it but be able to bring it back in event I don't have the mouse available.
> 
> Thinkpad.


The last thinkpad I had I could disable the touchpad in the bios permenantely. I couldn't disable only the touchpad and leave the little red button mouse working in the bios though. If you're in linux, you can do it pretty easily with xorg settings. It takes a little trial and error but its not bad. I don't remember if I could disable and re-enable without restarting xorg. Probably not.

Can't help if you're on windows. Haven't used windows on a laptop for a decade.


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## M1k3 (Dec 14, 2020)

juice said:


> Shame you didn't have a spare mouse in your bag


Alt+tab and the arrow keys. Pain in the ass but works.


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## juice (Dec 14, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Alt+tab and the arrow keys. Pain in the ass but works.


For sure, but a spare mouse says SO PREPARED


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## M1k3 (Dec 14, 2020)

juice said:


> For sure, but a spare mouse says SO PREPARED


Alt+tab and arrow keys says SO MCGYVER


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## esoo (Dec 14, 2020)

daveb said:


> Inferno - Do you know of a way to toggle the touch pad on/off. I'm a long time mouse user and not likely to change. The touchpad senses any palm contact, and thumb contact and sometimes even breathing hard. I would like to disable it but be able to bring it back in event I don't have the mouse available.
> 
> Thinkpad.



I haven't read everything prior, but ensure that you get the proper Synaptics driver for you box from Lenovo - under the mouse settings you should be able to disable the Touchpad and just leave the pointer stick working. Been doing that for years as I've been a long time Thinkpad user and hate touchpads. I would check now, but I'm on a work issued Macbook.


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## bbrooks008 (Dec 14, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Alt+tab and arrow keys says SO MCGYVER


Ha! The interview was for a job reviewing/designing spreadsheets. You can actually work a whole lot faster without the mouse - it just takes a bit of discipline until you get used to it


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## Luftmensch (Dec 14, 2020)

rmrf said:


> The last thinkpad I had I could disable the touchpad in the bios permenantely. I couldn't disable only the touchpad and leave the little red button mouse working in the bios though. If you're in linux, you can do it pretty easily with xorg settings. It takes a little trial and error but its not bad. I don't remember if I could disable and re-enable without restarting xorg. Probably not.
> 
> Can't help if you're on windows. Haven't used windows on a laptop for a decade.



Hehe... I think i understand your user name now... unless it is pure coincidence...


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## daveb (Dec 14, 2020)

esoo said:


> under the mouse settings you should be able to disable the Touchpad and just leave the pointer stick working. Been doing that for years as I've been a long time Thinkpad user and hate touchpads. I would check now, but I'm on a work issued Macbook.



FTW! I didn't even think about mouse settings. Certainly didn't expect it to be easy. I hate the touchpad but can use it in a pinch. There's a nagging thought in the back of my head that now if I'm without a mouse, I'm effectively without a computer (but I think I can live with that).


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## esoo (Dec 14, 2020)

daveb said:


> FTW! I didn't even think about mouse settings. Certainly didn't expect it to be easy. I hate the touchpad but can use it in a pinch. There's a nagging thought in the back of my head that now if I'm without a mouse, I'm effectively without a computer (but I think I can live with that).



You could setup the combo to quickly activate mouse keys -https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...ndows.html?s=58b5795cf5f1eeb98e665e73be5817be


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## Luftmensch (Dec 14, 2020)

@daveb

Seems like you figured it out. So perhaps this is redundant:



It could be outdated!


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## daveb (Dec 14, 2020)

I should have made it clear up front that I'm an idiot with computers.

But I do remember Hollerith cards - kind of pre-dates the mouse.


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## rmrf (Dec 14, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Hehe... I think i understand your user name now... unless it is pure coincidence...


remove recursively with great prejudice!


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## Luftmensch (Dec 14, 2020)

rmrf said:


> remove recursively with great prejudice!



do you have root privileges though


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