# Favorite stones around 4000 grit?



## Illyria (Jan 25, 2020)

Hey everyone. 

I'm looking for a new stone around 4000 grit that can be used as a nice toothy finisher, or set up for my JKI synthetic natural. 

Would love some recommendations for stones around that range. Something not prone to cracking would be great. 

Maybe an aizu?


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## inferno (Jan 25, 2020)

i like the glass 4k and the cleancut kitayama 4k. 

the cleancut is a bit creamier and softer, and the glass harder. result is the same i'd say. 

my fav in this range though is the glass 3k. its much faster than the 4k and i clogs a lot less. and its aaaaalmost as fine.


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## Illyria (Jan 25, 2020)

inferno said:


> i like the glass 4k and the cleancut kitayama 4k.
> 
> the cleancut is a bit creamier and softer, and the glass harder. result is the same i'd say.
> 
> my fav in this range though is the glass 3k. its much faster than the 4k and i clogs a lot less. and its aaaaalmost as fine.



Thank you. I'll check it out.


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## ma_sha1 (Jan 25, 2020)

I use King 4K instead of 6k, pretty good


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## nakneker (Jan 25, 2020)

Chosera 3k has always been one of my favs and can act much like a 4K with less pressure, fantastic stone. Recently the JKI 4K got several nods in this grit range too, I ordered one a couple weeks ago and spent sometime with it a couple days ago. I really like that stone, slow to load up and cuts fast for a 4K with a great feel to it. Smooth but not silky. The other thing I like about the JKI 4K is the size, my stone measures 76 wide and 211 long. My Chosera 3k is 70 wide and 208 long. I really enjoy that extra width.


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## Kitchen-Samurai (Jan 25, 2020)

You might also want to check out the Morihei Hishiboshi 4k. You can read a bit more in my recent thread on the Morihei stones, incl. a comparison to the chosera 3k.
If you have the synthetic natural, what are you looking for exactly? A different feeling stone? A splash & go stone? What are you using before the synth natural?


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## vicv (Jan 25, 2020)

My favorite is the sigma select 2 3k. It's a fantastic stone. Cuts like a 1k. Finishes like a 3k chosera but is even harder. And it's made of pure sic so it will cleanly cut any steel. One issue. It doesn't really polish as it just cuts at its grit level


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## daveb (Jan 25, 2020)

I like to precede the syn natural with the Gesshin 2K. The G4K is another nice stone and I'll go from it into a Jnat finisher. Seems like a 4K to Syn Nat is a bit redundant.


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## KingShapton (Jan 26, 2020)

What about the Naniwa Gouken Hayabusa? It's a great 4000 and it's cheap.

The Shapton Glass 3000 is one of my all-time favorites.


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## labor of love (Jan 26, 2020)

Naniwa Hayabusa 4K is really quite excellent. I’d be shocked if you could find a better 4K for the $50 they sell for.


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## Illyria (Jan 26, 2020)

nakneker said:


> Chosera 3k has always been one of my favs and can act much like a 4K with less pressure, fantastic stone. Recently the JKI 4K got several nods in this grit range too, I ordered one a couple weeks ago and spent sometime with it a couple days ago. I really like that stone, slow to load up and cuts fast for a 4K with a great feel to it. Smooth but not silky. The other thing I like about the JKI 4K is the size, my stone measures 76 wide and 211 long. My Chosera 3k is 70 wide and 208 long. I really enjoy that extra width.




Absolutely love the JKI 4k, but it's too prone to cracking. (or I'm extremely unlucky? 3 cracked on arrival.) 

Have had a few Chosera stones, but not a fan of magnesia stones.



Kitchen-Samurai said:


> You might also want to check out the Morihei Hishiboshi 4k. You can read a bit more in my recent thread on the Morihei stones, incl. a comparison to the chosera 3k.
> If you have the synthetic natural, what are you looking for exactly? A different feeling stone? A splash & go stone? What are you using before the synth natural?




I tried a few.

Shapton pro 5k was a bit too glassy for me. Didn't like the feedback.

King 4k gave a nice edge, but was too small and took a bit too long on harder steels.

JKI 4k is the best so far, but issue above.




I'll be checking out the Hayabusa, sigma and shapton.

Thank you for the recommendations, everyone. I appreciate it.


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## zizirex (Jan 26, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Naniwa Hayabusa 4K is really quite excellent. I’d be shocked if you could find a better 4K for the $50 they sell for.


How good is it? I was thinking to buy 1 as well, but wonder how the polish finish will be? the contrast? and how toothy the edge will be? compare to the Chosera 3K? Because these series is one of the most underrated series of Naniwa


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## toddnmd (Jan 26, 2020)

daveb said:


> Seems like a 4K to Syn Nat is a bit redundant.



I agree. Jon has said the synthetic natural is in the 3-6K range, probably at the higher end. He also mentioned going from an 800 to a finisher in the 3-8K range. 

I go from 1K to synthetic natural, which works just fine, so I don’t think a 4K is needed.


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## Illyria (Jan 26, 2020)

toddnmd said:


> I agree. Jon has said the synthetic natural is in the 3-6K range, probably at the higher end. He also mentioned going from an 800 to a finisher in the 3-8K range.
> 
> I go from 1K to synthetic natural, which works just fine, so I don’t think a 4K is needed.




Yeah, I have been doing jki 2k to the synthetic natural, which works perfectly. 

I also also want a stone that can act as a stand alone finisher around 4k, and set up for a finer finisher. (The synthetic natural being the finest I have at the moment, but I'm planning on getting a finer finishing stone in the next couple of weeks)


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## JOSHUA PETERSON (Jan 26, 2020)

I just picked up a Kaishin(?) 4000 off amazon. It’s actually pretty good. It’s hard like the JNS blue aoto-also would recommend for this grit range. I didn’t like the SG 4000. And the cheaper naniwa haya...4K is good for edges but kind of scratchy on soft iron I thought. The JKI 3k’s are also great.


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## JOSHUA PETERSON (Jan 26, 2020)

Also maybe look at the suehiro MD 4K. Expensive, but that line’s width is really nice to use.


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## labor of love (Jan 26, 2020)

zizirex said:


> How good is it? I was thinking to buy 1 as well, but wonder how the polish finish will be? the contrast? and how toothy the edge will be? compare to the Chosera 3K? Because these series is one of the most underrated series of Naniwa


It has really great feedback pretty middle of the road cutting speed and leaves a good finish/polish. Can’t really remember anything about contrast.
I can’t remember the name of Stus website but he was like “don’t get one of my choseras get a hayabusa they cost half as much and are about as nice”


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## vicv (Jan 26, 2020)

Stu Tierney unfortunately closed down his shop. Not sure where to get the sigma stones anymore


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## labor of love (Jan 26, 2020)

vicv said:


> Stu Tierney unfortunately closed down his shop. Not sure where to get the sigma stones anymore


Mtc has a few 

https://www.mtckitchen.com/sharpening-stones/


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## Lars (Jan 26, 2020)

vicv said:


> Not sure where to get the sigma stones anymore


https://www.fine-tools.com/sigma.html


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## vicv (Jan 26, 2020)

Thank you labor and Lars. But that is the select II line. Those are available in many places including my local Lee Valley tools. It's their normal ceramic power line that only Stu carried and I've never seen them elsewhere. I'm basically set now for stones but would mind trying the 1k hard some time


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## labor of love (Jan 26, 2020)

vicv said:


> Thank you labor and Lars. But that is the select II line. Those are available in many places including my local Lee Valley tools. It's their normal ceramic power line that only Stu carried and I've never seen them elsewhere. I'm basically set now for stones but would mind trying the 1k hard some time


Could you remind me what the difference between the 2 lines are again?


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## vicv (Jan 26, 2020)

The select II are pure sintered sic with no binder. Very fast cutters not polishers as the grit does break down as it's constantly releasing fresh abrasive. The 240 and 1k wear very fast and are extremely fast. The 3k, 6k 10k are harder and last very well but still cut very well. The ceramic power line are a traditional ceramic Waterstone but with minimal binder and high concentration of high quality alumina. So they too are very fast and cut even hard high carbide steels well but not the the level of the sintered sic. Stu did a very through test of from what I remember over 10 1k stones and the sigma ceramic came out on top overall. Unfortunately his blog was also shut down and it was an excellent test


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## labor of love (Jan 26, 2020)

I always wanted to try the 1200, can’t remember which sigma line it was in. Supposed to be legendary though.


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## Matus (Jan 26, 2020)

What DaveB said.


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## vicv (Jan 26, 2020)

The 1200 was in the select 2 line but really was a standard power ceramic but sigma had brand recognition with the select 2 name


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## labor of love (Jan 26, 2020)

vicv said:


> The 1200 was in the select 2 line but really was a standard power ceramic but sigma had brand recognition with the select 2 name


Is there a finisher that sigma makes that stands out to you?
Only one Ive used was the 6k. It’s was a fast cutting hard stone. I don’t think it was from the select 2 line.


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## vicv (Jan 26, 2020)

The 6k sigma jinzo renge suita you mentioned is I think the best ~6k stone out there. But it's too fine for knives. For tools it's everything anyone could ask for. Razors too. The select 2 6k is also superlative but again too fine for knives.


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## kayman67 (Jan 26, 2020)

zizirex said:


> How good is it? I was thinking to buy 1 as well, but wonder how the polish finish will be? the contrast? and how toothy the edge will be? compare to the Chosera 3K? Because these series is one of the most underrated series of Naniwa



Amazing with carbon, so-so with stainless in general. Like Chosera, these are known for cracking, usually in half. Chosera has some spider web warning, Hayabusa doesn't. I keep mine in epoxy, so far so good and it's been a while. I just saw another cracked one a few days ago. 
It's a lot like Chosera as far as feeling goes, but softer. Both Chosera 3k and 5k I have will outlive this by a good amount. That's the only other caveat for heavy usage.

All Sigma stones are pretty fast usually, even the 10k can remove some steel unless you are careful. I have the 3k for some years now. Always a nice stone. Works better if soaked in water for a few minutes, but it's not really necessary. But with the 1k, a good half hour of soaking really makes it work better and dish a lot slower.


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## adrianopedro (Jan 29, 2020)

What about JNS Aoto Matukusuyama? 
I really liked this stone, cuts fast, leaves a lot of bite, good feedback, not as soft as Chosera 3k but not too hard either. I can finish most of my stainless knives on this stone.


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## Grunt173 (Jan 29, 2020)

I usually fight with myself as to my finisher. Most of the time I have to just flip a coin between my Chosera 3k or my Gesshin Synthetic Natural.


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## jacko9 (Jan 29, 2020)

I like the Shapton Pro 5K stone


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## rob (Jan 30, 2020)

My favorite around that grit would be Suhero reika 5000. Probably not a true 5000 though feels finer than Chosera 3000. This is almost always the stone i use for touch up sharpening as well 

Chosera 1000>Suhero 5000 gives a great finish sharp is i need with a little bite.


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