# One more copper cookware thread--caramel making



## chinacats (Dec 9, 2015)

So, looks like I need some advice from the experts (won't take much to know more than me). I'm wanting to make caramel and understand that copper will be the ideal material. I used a Dutch oven the first time and while I can get it got, had no real temperature control.

In looking at pots, most are now lined in stainless though some can be found in tin or silver as I've recently learned. Caramel requires high temps and in reading online I understand that people recommend using unlined copper for caramel making. I had assumed that copper was lined to protect the food from the copper, since I'm guessing that's not the case, why is most copper lined?:O

Dehilleren (sp?) is the only place I've found then so far. Are any of these what would be recommended? Curious if the jam pan or syrup pan would be more appropriate?

Not sure what size would equate to about 9-10 quarts? :scratchhead:

Anything else I need? I'm waiting on marble and some steel rods to hold the hot caramel. I've got a few good candy thermometers and a couple of recipes.

Cheers


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## spoiledbroth (Dec 9, 2015)

You don't have any really heavy gauge stainless cookware? That's what I always use for caramel! Sorry I couldn't be of more help... 

At the end of the day my assumption is that heavy gauge stainless may be better than the dutch oven, but I have no way to compare to copper.

More reading:
- Thermal conductivity of common metals! 

- Here's a really interesting and potentially relevant answer on Stack Exchange's cooking forum!! 

TL;DR - Harold McGee on different pots and pans, materials


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## bkultra (Dec 9, 2015)

We can only excrete copper in limited doses per day. So if we did happen to absorb too much copper on a regular basis, eventually it could build up and cause problems. We clearly don't want that. Therefore, it makes a good deal of sense not to have all of our cookware be pure copper. 

There are factors that modify the copper absorption in food. Very acidic foods will pull off more copper. Tarnished copper will be absorbed into food more quickly than well maintained copper. Storing food in copper rather than just cooking with it and transferring it out will allow the food to absorb more copper.

Given all of this, let's consider jam. Given there are multiple jars of jam made in one batch, the batch cooks for a relatively short amount of time, and in one sitting, you're unlikely to eat very much jam, you're probably safe eating jam made in a copper pot. The same goes for candy.

Edit: here is another source for copper cookware http://copperwaredelights.com


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## DamageInc (Dec 9, 2015)

Most copper is lined as the copper will taint most foods, especially acidic ones. It does not, however, taint egg whites and sugars.

E. Dehillerin is a great place to buy copper. I've been to the shop multiple times and their online service is good too.

Some people like to cook caramel in stainless pans as it will be easier to gauge the color of the caramel.


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## chinacats (Dec 9, 2015)

spoiledbroth said:


> You don't have any really heavy gauge stainless cookware? That's what I always use for caramel! Sorry I couldn't be of more help...
> 
> At the end of the day my assumption is that heavy gauge stainless may be better than the dutch oven, but I have no way to compare to copper.
> 
> ...




I believe that the first link demonstrates that copper and silver both conduct very well and stainless kind of blows. I'm not so sure about what they mean in the second article, but my understanding of the limits of most modern copper is that it is lined with a poor conductor (stainless or even tin for that matter). Silver makes the most sense if it is to be lined imo and for that I would go with the Turkish copper that someone had linked in a recent thread...again, for caramel I believe I may be looking for unlined?

To answer your other question, no I don't own any heavy duty large stainless...I do have an eight _gallon_ stock pot and an All-Clad 12 quart pasta pot but both are lower quality stainless imo. I believe that if I'm going to buy a pot specific for this that I would like to get the better product and everything I've read leads me to think I need copper.

The dutch oven was a Lodge and the shape seemed almost ideal--better than my Staub or Fontignac which have less rounded sides. Again, the problem was imo the conductivity or lack thereof.


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## bkultra (Dec 9, 2015)

The Turkish vendor is soy copper... https://www.etsy.com/listing/173626852/professional-hammered-copper-frying-pan?ref=related-2

And yes you would want unlined copper in this case. Keep in mind tin melts at 449.5°F

You are looking for a sugar saucepan... (Note the largest one there is just under 4 qt)

http://copperwaredelights.com/sugar-saucepans/114-copper-sugar-saucepan-mauviel.html

Jam pans come in larger sizes...

http://copperwaredelights.com/jam-pans/121-not-hammered-copper-jam-pan-mauviel.html


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## chinacats (Dec 9, 2015)

bkultra said:


> We can only excrete copper in limited doses per day. So if we did happen to absorb too much copper on a regular basis, eventually it could build up and cause problems. We clearly don't want that. Therefore, it makes a good deal of sense not to have all of our cookware be pure copper.
> 
> There are factors that modify the copper absorption in food. Very acidic foods will pull off more copper. Tarnished copper will be absorbed into food more quickly than well maintained copper. Storing food in copper rather than just cooking with it and transferring it out will allow the food to absorb more copper.
> 
> ...



Nice link, thanks! I believe the 36cm jam pan may be what the doctor ordered...the syrup pans on Dehillerin seem to be discontinued.



DamageInc said:


> Most copper is lined as the copper will taint most foods, especially acidic ones. It does not, however, taint egg whites and sugars.
> 
> E. Dehillerin is a great place to buy copper. I've been to the shop multiple times and their online service is good too.
> 
> Some people like to cook caramel in stainless pans as it will be easier to gauge the color of the caramel.



Makes perfect sense about the caramel color, but as a rookie I seem to rely fairly heavily on the thermometer. I would much rather shop Dehillerin in person though it would not be good for my bank account.:biggrin:





bkultra said:


> The Turkish vendor is soy copper... https://www.etsy.com/listing/173626852/professional-hammered-copper-frying-pan?ref=related-2
> 
> And yes you would want unlined copper in this case. Keep in mind tin melts at 449.5°F
> 
> ...





I was thinking about something along the lines of this jam pan. The price seems very good...shipping may not be so great

The 36cm is about 10 liters which allows room for expansion (ask me how I know about this:O).



Quick edit after seeing Theory's post below would be that it seems as if the copper won't be much more expensive than a nice heavy piece of stainless?


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## ThEoRy (Dec 9, 2015)

I also just use heavy stainless.


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## bkultra (Dec 9, 2015)

Shipping on the site I listed is usually very fair.

I also assume when you say "heavy stainless" you are referring to clad (aka tri ply)?


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## Lucretia (Dec 9, 2015)

Here you go: http://www.falkusa.com/copper-jam-pot-32cm-classical-line

Just under 11 quarts, and on sale.


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## chinacats (Dec 9, 2015)

Thanks for the help everyone! I just purchased a 35 cm syrup pan from Dehillerin. My first piece of copper--not what I would've thought I'd start with but I'm stoked!

I'm guessing that the pan I bought is a house brand (?) made by Mauviel? It doesn't say on the site but the stock picture is the same posted on copperwaredelights and the price was quite a bit lower. The pan is 10L unlined and was right @$286 usd (including $75 shipping) much less than I had imagined this costing me. Quoted delivery dates were between Dec 24th, 2015 and June ??, 2016.:eyebrow:


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## bkultra (Dec 9, 2015)

Their house brand is made by Mauviel, but sometimes it is only marked "made in France".


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## Casaluz (Dec 10, 2015)

Congratulations, copper will become one more "must have" in your list. Dehillerin is first class in everything they do.


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