# Looking for honest feedback on 60mm petty



## Tim Rowland (Dec 27, 2018)

Hi guys,
looking for some feedback on this little petty I just finished up.
its a 60mm blade in AEB-L in 3/32" (.070") and the handle is a hybrid acrylic and stabilized dyed box elder burl.

A few things that I am unsure of that I may change on the next one but would love some opinions.

1. I left the heat treat finish above the grind as a contrast almost like a sandblast finish, but I may do a 400grit satin rub on the next one for more contrast.

2. I left the finish on the handle at 1200grit and a quick buff. I'm afraid of going higher and making the cast section clearer and showing the tang crystal clear. Maybe I can do the cast section as the butt end instead?

3. Maybe go full height on the grind?

Just the initial things that I am pondering about this piece.

I would love any criticism and suggestions that I could use with my current projects. I do understand that as with everything personal taste accounts for a lot.


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## John N (Dec 27, 2018)

Clean looking work. I would be interested to see a couple of 'in hand' photos. 

The handle looks very blocky, and there does not look to be much 'flow' between the blade and handle. (I realise this can be difficult with short blades though)


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## Matus (Dec 27, 2018)

If I am not mistaken, than 5/32” is about 3.9mm - that is a lot for a such a small knife unless there is some very pronounced distal taper. 

I like the blade shape. I used to have two 80mm petty knives and liked them a lot. For some reason I sold both. 

Whether the grind is good depends on how the knife cuts. It looks like a flat grind what usually is not ideal on a kitchen knife, but on such a small blade it may work fine. 

The fit and finish looks really nice. I agree that the handle seems to be a bit too big (thick) for the small blade.

The photos are taken from too close and are thus distorted by the wide angle capture.


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## Tim Rowland (Dec 27, 2018)

Hi John,
I will take a few pictures in hand later on this evening to maybe show the fit to hand. You are absolutely right with how hard it is for a visual but comfortable size handle with these smaller blades. Thank you for the feedback.


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## Tim Rowland (Dec 27, 2018)

Hi Matus,
you are correct on the thickness. I mis-typed and will go back to edit the original. It is 3/32". Its . 070 AEB-L from NJSB. 
I will take a few top side photos as well as from further away later. But your observations are correct as it is not a huge amount of distal taper. Which is why I was thinking of a full height grind on the next one this small. It is a full flat grind on this little guy. I typically add a convex to the bottom 1/4 of the grind on my bigger blades with a piece of felt on my flat platen which has just enough give in the belt to give a soft convex. 
Thank you for the feedback.


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## HRC_64 (Dec 27, 2018)

Question I have when I see that blade (which looks nice, btw)
is what (jobs) exactly is it designed to do?


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## Matus (Dec 27, 2018)

I would use such a knife to make an X-cut on sweet chestnuts before cooking. I use a 120 Zakuri funayuki for this very purpose, but it feels too large as one only needs a tip and few centimeters of a cutting edge.


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## Tim Rowland (Dec 27, 2018)

Hi HRC_64,

I guess I should have stated that before. lol sorry.
When I was profiling and planing the grind I was kind of thinking of it as a Chef's companion knife, like a mix of EDC around the kitchen. box cutting and small hand held peeling of small ingredients. I just had in mind everything that I would use either my folding box cutter or kershaw chive pocket knife for. I have used my chive for a pocket pairing knife for years just out of convenience. So basically since I like the feel of Wa handles and thought others in the profession might like an EDC for the kitchen I decided to give this design a try. Thats why I wanted feedback from everyone here especially those that work in the industry. I hope all that rambling makes sense.
Here are more pictures in the hand for the others who asked.


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## HRC_64 (Dec 28, 2018)

I really like the shape and blade profile for what you're intended use is.

The handle is the one area that I think could be done in variations,
...but that assumes you want or need to iterate the design

(to suit other potential users or use cases, etc)


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## merlijny2k (Dec 28, 2018)

I agree on what the others said. The handle could be tapered toward the neck for more comfort.

I also like my small knives to be shallow enough to be comfortable peeling towards the thumb. It looks this maybe just a bit too high for this, the comfort range is quite narrow here. The sweet spot seems somewhat like 1/2 inch. 3/4 inch is less comfortable but still manageable, full inch and more I only use if nothing else is available. More height at the heel is beneficial at the board, but since I only use petty's for tip work, I wonder how much use the high heel is.


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## merlijny2k (Dec 28, 2018)

For cutting cardboard boxes, you want to be able to exert some force. Wa handles sit higher on the neck than Western handles, which gives the knife more tendency to flip over. Some higher folding knives adress this by having a wave near the heel. Would be interesting to see how that works with a Wa handle. 

Really dig the look of the ferrule, and the blade-ferrule transition looks very clean. Did you do a two-dowel style handle?


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## HRC_64 (Dec 28, 2018)

re: handle ergonomics

Found this video very interesting. It might seem a litle off topic, but the whole discussion of handle ergonomics is illuminating.



some other vids talking about blade and shape grind in the same context


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## HRC_64 (Dec 28, 2018)

More than one small knife is another option, each suited to dedicated tasks...


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## John N (Dec 28, 2018)

Are you sure it is 0.070" thick ? it looks a lot thicker than that in the photos !


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## Matus (Dec 28, 2018)

HRC_64 said:


> re: handle ergonomics
> 
> Found this video very interesting. It might seem a litle off topic, but the whole discussion of handle ergonomics is illuminating.



It physically hurts to see how the Endura wedges in the apple. He has a point on the handle shape for the in-hand cutting and peeling.


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## Tim Rowland (Dec 28, 2018)

Thanks for the Feedback guys:

Merlijny2k:
I can definitely understand the want for a shorter blade profile, most of the pairing knives I have made in the past have been shorter and thinner as that was going to be their primary function and completely agree that it has a much better feel and comfort level that way.
I left this one taller and more robust because of the cardboard use and I honestly just thought it looked different and cool.
After I use it for a while I will report back on "flippy" it is while doing those tougher cutting tasks.
As for the handle base/ferrule it is all 1 solid cast piece. So it is a 6mm center hole and then I slot with a homemade broach/and needle files.

HRC_64:
Cool videos, how he is using the spyderco in the first one as far as comfort is why I have been using my little kershaw for years. I do think my little chive is a thinner blade than that spyderco though.
In the other two videos the blade shape certainly splits rather than slices.

John N:
I will double check it with the calipers this evening but i only have 3 thicknesses of AEB-L in my shop. (.040) (.070) (.110)
I am fairly positive I made this one with the .070


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## HRC_64 (Dec 28, 2018)

Matus said:


> It physically hurts to see how the Endura wedges in the apple. He has a point on the handle shape for the in-hand cutting and peeling.



Yes, and the poor blade choices make the points he makes about handle ergonomics more salient ! 


(need more control and have more discomfort to overcome)


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## merlijny2k (Dec 29, 2018)

Tim Rowland said:


> Thanks for the Feedback guys:
> 
> Merlijny2k:
> I can definitely understand the want for a shorter blade profile, most of the pairing knives I have made in the past have been shorter and thinner as that was going to be their primary function and completely agree that it has a much better feel and comfort level that way.
> ...



I actually don't value shortness in a paring knife. A typical 50mm paring knife doesn't go all the wat through a large apple. So after peeling the apple I have to pick up and dirty another knife to split it: don't like. Same with pear, mango etc etc. That's why I don't like my Robert Herder paring knife for fruit peeling. Instead I reach for a shallow 11cm long and 1,8cm tall western utility knife or even my wife's 14cm long and 1cm tall Kreuzblumen filleting knife with a light handle and no bolster or guard. As the knife is very shallow and thin it peels well and has the length for splitting a large fruit. I even use it if I prepare a single large potatoe for garnish or sth.

As was discussed on another thread earlier, Japanese knife culture isn't big on thin, long, somewhat flexible knives. In my view, peeling and cutting fruits can be approached in two ways: 1,peeler for peeling and chef knife for cutting. This appears to be favoured by most forumites, but a lot of those think from the perspective of a commercial kitchen where volumes are larger. 2, single long thin knife for both peel and cut. I favor this approach for having to wash and wipe only one item in home environment.

I center this discussion around fruit but in my experience a lot of in hand work comes from fruit.

At the same time I am running a slightly similar experiment to yours having made a 4" chef knife from a piece of short tall steel not suitable for much else. The concept was laughed away here some time ago and for some seemingly valid reasons but I still wanted to try for myself if the concept has any merit to it. It will enter service today or tomorrow.


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## Tim Rowland (Dec 30, 2018)

Interesting point of view on the splitting then peeling or vise versa. I guess I understand that for a single piece and quick in hand peeling. 
when it comes to straight peeling in a repetitive manor for prep of say apples for pie or strudel etc. that is just going to be sliced or diced anyway I actually just use one of my thinner 210mm gyutos. Lop off the top and bottom and then top down curve cut almost tournet. So I guess personally if I were to fall into 1 of the 2 categories you mention I cant because it would depend on the volume of work. at home for personal consumption I just grab a simple pairing knife, and at work for a big prep session I grab a thin gyuto.


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## merlijny2k (Dec 30, 2018)

Tried using the gyuto couple of times but feel it increases the total amount of waste compared to peeler or paring knife.


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