# Borax alternatives?



## inferno (Nov 14, 2019)

I'm looking for alternatives to borax for making san mai blades.

I have come across some 52100 from ball bearing races but they are slightly too small to make a whole knife out of. 
So i have to san mai them. 

Borax is not really easy to get hold of these days around here. and i wonder if there is any other common household chemical or similar that will do what borax does? I read about fluxes on wikipedia and there seems to a ton of them. 

i also wonder if i can simply do this instead:
take 1pc of 52100, clean ground
2pc mild whatever steel, clean ground
weld these together as a pancake (allround airtight) with a mig/tig/stick welder
forge it out and then simply grind off the welds around the edges?

will this work?


----------



## RDalman (Nov 14, 2019)

Yes welding shut works, that's how to stainless btw as borax doesn't work on that. If you can tig it without filler there might be nothing to grind also. Castra-steel. Se I believe sells borax online in sweden though if you want some.


----------



## RDalman (Nov 14, 2019)

You can also go oldschool and grab some sand from a playground


----------



## RDalman (Nov 14, 2019)

Also... Rust haha. Tanakas flux mix when he did forging demo at cleancut looked to be mostly rust mixed with some borax.


----------



## inferno (Nov 14, 2019)

lol ***. hahaha rust mixed with borax. 

will sand work?

i'm watching kato and shigefusa vids now, from their workshop and they both seem to use some gray mix of something. i'm guessing there is sand in there.


----------



## RDalman (Nov 14, 2019)

Iron or steel powder is also often used in the mix. To make it "grab" a little better. Sand requires a little higher temp, borax is probably easiest to work with. It's as usual ymmv... Have fun


----------



## inferno (Nov 14, 2019)

thank you!

i see. hopefully gonna try this tomorrow. with regular sand and some steel powder. just to see if it works. that would be nice.


----------



## Matus (Nov 14, 2019)

I always forget where are you located. One online shop in Austria sells borax in 1kg amounts.


----------



## inferno (Nov 14, 2019)

i'm in the land of vikings, north of legoland.


----------



## Matus (Nov 14, 2019)

So that sounds like ordering from Austria should be no problem:
https://shop.riegersburger-burgschmied.at/product/69-borax-flussmittel-schweißpulver


----------



## RDalman (Nov 15, 2019)

There's this one also. Ready mix borax with iron powder I think. Heard it works.. https://www.teamalutorp.se/product/flussmedel-iron-mountain


----------



## Kippington (Nov 15, 2019)

Do you know the difference between borax and anhydrous borax? It's worth knowing if you plan on using any.


----------



## inferno (Nov 15, 2019)

Kippington said:


> Do you know the difference between borax and anhydrous borax? It's worth knowing if you plan on using any.



i read something about it on BF earlier today. the general opinion was that it doesn't matter.


----------



## inferno (Nov 15, 2019)

i ended up mig-welding the pieces together btw. couldn't find any sand at work and what i guessed could have been fine sand turned out to be some random mud or clay after it dried.


----------



## BT11 (Nov 17, 2019)

Welding the seams is the go. A little bit more work to prep the billet, but you are (almost) guaranteed perfect welds every time. Plus not dealing with borax is a bonus. No big puddle of molten borax in your forge, and no 3rd degree burns from molten borax droplets on your skin haha


----------



## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Mar 3, 2020)

Dry welding (no flux) is very popular in some circles. I've had good results with charcoal starter, similar to kerosene.


----------

