# Good electric stove. Does it exist?



## Danzo (Jul 16, 2020)

So just moved into the new house, and I’ve got another electric stove. Doomed to forever cook on electric. This time rather than coils I have this smooth glass surface. Day 1, I ****ing hate it. Unfortunately, since gas is not an option, are there any good electric stove choices out there? Or are they all awful?


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## madelinez (Jul 16, 2020)

Induction electric beats ceramic in my opinion, the heat response is comparable to gas but it's better at low temperatures versus gas.

Unfortunately they cost significantly more than gas and you'll also likely need to upgrade the circuit it's on to handle the current draw. If you have the cash though it's worth the upgrade, I use gas but studies have shown they add a lot of unseen indoor pollution.


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## madelinez (Jul 16, 2020)

Oh and induction will only work on induction compatible pots (any pot made from iron, steel or containing a steel layer/rings). Pure copper and aluminium without a steel layer won't heat up.


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## parbaked (Jul 16, 2020)

Go induction...it's the best electric option.
Yes I had to buy some new pots but it's worth it.


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## AT5760 (Jul 16, 2020)

Gas is always an option. I hate my electric in my new house. Hopefully I can run gas line this winter and get a new range.


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## RonB (Jul 16, 2020)

Does induction vary the current or cycle it on and off to maintain a set temp?


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## McMan (Jul 16, 2020)

Try harder:


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## ian (Jul 16, 2020)

Another option is acceptance. I hated my current electric stove when we moved in, since I was so used to the responsiveness of gas. But eventually you learn to use it. You learn to turn on the burner a couple minutes early, and to take things off the burner when you need them to cool down, and you appreciate that it’s at least easy to clean, really stable on low heats, and doesn’t create hot spots. I still would rather have gas, but it’s not the end of the world.


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## Danzo (Jul 16, 2020)

I’d rather have coils over this thing.


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## ian (Jul 16, 2020)

Because of the lack of responsiveness?


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## parbaked (Jul 16, 2020)

Danzo said:


> I’d rather have coils over this thing.





ian said:


> Because of the lack of responsiveness?



Coils respond better than ceramic top, unless it's induction.
Gas>Induction>coils>ceramic crap top electric


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## Danzo (Jul 16, 2020)

ian said:


> Because of the lack of responsiveness?



they just don’t get very hot. And it seems the heat is very concentrated on the bottom of my pans. If that makes sense


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## ian (Jul 16, 2020)

Oh, not getting hot is a problem...

The latter does make sense. Even if the gas flames aren’t coming up the sides of your pans, I imagine the air on the sides of the pans is hotter with gas than when the pan covers the entire burner on the electric cook top.


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## Nemo (Jul 16, 2020)

Had to use electric while isolating from family for CV19.

Its one redeeming feature is that it's really good at keeping the pressure cooker just at the right point without blowing off heaps of steam.


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## Twigg (Jul 17, 2020)

I think the coils work better overall, but the ceramic is the easiest to clean for radiant cooking. Its a bit rough looking, but lining the catch pans under the coils with foil makes cleanup is a breeze. Ian is right about acceptance and learning to adjust. You can get used to it, but you will never like it. I have always preferred gas, but have heard and read so many positives about induction that I am thinking of switching to it when we do an appliance upgrade next year. My house came with a Jennair radiant downdraft cooktop that needs to go.


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## Lars (Jul 17, 2020)

Been cooking on induction for 10 years and loving it.


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## Chunkybananahead (Jul 17, 2020)

I’d recommend getting a butane or induction portable. the butane would be great for when you really want that “around the pot” heat like a wok. The Induction is great for low low control and, as I discovered, safety. I was using my single induction to make shallot oil and wasn’t paying enough attention. I threw the shallots in the hot oil and had a MAJOR boil-over. If that had been on my gas burner I would have been in a world of trouble. As it was, I just had some cleanup to do with an entire roll of paper towels haha.


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## LostHighway (Jul 17, 2020)

madelinez said:


> Oh and induction will only work on induction compatible pots (any pot made from iron, steel or containing a steel layer/rings). Pure copper and aluminium without a steel layer won't heat up.



Not just any steel is induction friendly, many stainless steels (austenetic steels) are not sufficiently responsive to magnetic fields to work on induction cooktops.


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## jacko9 (Jul 17, 2020)

I've had electric coils and now have a glass top which I prefer mush better. Yes I would rather have gas but, I'm in a tight spot to run a gas line since I moved the kitchen from it's original location.


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## jankdc (Jul 20, 2020)

A few months ago, induction ranges were available sub $800. There seems to currently be a supply problem. I was able to score a floor model for $650 at a local appliance dealer. It's nowhere near as nice as the more expensive models, but we really like it. It's much better than the coiled electric that we had. We did need to replace some cookware, so consider that as part of the expense. Also, no electrical work was needed. We just swapped the units out.


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## ModRQC (Jul 20, 2020)

I sell these things for a living.

From your picture @Danzo you seem to have a rather basic model - I'd say no convection, and not much power in the elements, and no 12" one. Probably your usual exposed baking element in the oven too. A ceran can be more agreeable, but the basics of it is that they're all pretty poor responsiveness.

All Cerans will cycle and not maintain heat as much as a range of heat, so not very precise. 

Be warned that any "new" coil stove will probably cycle too. Sadly, it became the norm for new coil stove to cycle, so the quick responsiveness we had from an old coil stove is pretty gone - still it's direct contact and should be a bit more responsive.

Good cerans exist, once you know how to work with their limitations.

Induction would be best, but beware of cheaper alternatives where the motor cannot provide full operational power on more than one of the cooking zones.

If you have questions don't hesitate.


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## ModRQC (Jul 20, 2020)

If you want the best ceran I know of that's still "reasonably" priced : Kitchen Aid YKSEB900ESS. 

Two even-heat elements have two elements in one, allowing to relay the cycling and get a much more precise result. One is 6 inches and dedicated to low heat precision, the other 9" has more power obviously. The 12" element is a triple zone, and about the most powerful you can get in a ceran.

True convection oven with a gliding rack - I love these a lot.

Aqualift self-clean sucks - but that's a reality of all so called "water" self clean.


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## gregfisk (Jul 20, 2020)

Danzo said:


> I’d rather have coils over this thing.


I think as others have posted induction is the best option if you can't have gas. It heats up quickly and vise versa which is the whole advantage of gas. I love cooking with gas and hope I never have to go back. But if I do for some reason induction will be my choice.


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## SteveL (Jul 20, 2020)

I need to replace an old coil stove and find comments here interesting. In the Bay Area, a growing number of cities are prohibiting gas ranges in new construction. If that movement spreads maybe it will spur the design of better electric units. I use copper so can't go for induction. All I hear from glass top users is misery.


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## parbaked (Jul 20, 2020)

I just renovated a kitchen in SF that is electric only. This is the first time I don't have gas.
I bought this Fridgidare induction range on sale: https://www.frigidaire.com/Kitchen-Appliances/Ranges/Induction-Range/FGIH3047VF/

I've used it for a month now.

Induction works well once you get use to the interface. 
Water boils ridiculously fast. 
Works great for maintaining low simmers
The air fry oven actually makes great tori karaage.
I still miss gas...


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## Danzo (Jul 21, 2020)

Been cooking for almost a week now. Still hate it. two things bug me the most. 

1. fragility. on a gas range, and on my electric coil range, i could bang my heavy carbon steel pans on them no problem. I'm afraid I'm going to destroy this cook surface.

2. Lip on the front. there is a small lip around the whole surface, making the cooking surface recessed by about a 1cm. This makes it impossible to move the pans back and forth. 

At this point i think i have to revert back to coil, since i feel most induction will still have these two problems, or at least the first.


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## ModRQC (Jul 21, 2020)

On a ceran, you're always best to raise the pan off the surface for back and forth... I got used to that.

If going for a coil, I'd be one to try and find a used one, not too old, ideally with the 5 passes coils (9").

The new cycling coils appeared about 1-2 years ago, and replaced everything. Also most modern coils are ultra cheap, being a brand's most basic offering in any case. Something older than 5 years, ideally 10 years, is probably twice the quality of nowaday's coil stoves.

EDIT: Obviously don't expect nothing like a convection or hidden bake element in a modern coil stove.


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## gregfisk (Jul 21, 2020)

I see people giving away or practically giving away coil top stoves on Nextdoor all the time. If you’re not in a hurry you can pick one up that way without having to buy new. I’ve actually found some great stuff on that site including one of my 6x48 belt sanders I got for dirt cheap.


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## WPerry (Jul 21, 2020)

Another induction user. I'm far enough removed from gas that I don't long for it any more. Between the low lows, the high highs and the ridiculously easy clean-up (I've never needed anything other than a damp paper towel), I'm really happy with induction. 

Oh, another benefit - as someone that likes to run the air conditioning as little as possible, I really appreciate the magical way in which it doesn't heat up the kitchen as much as the alternatives and how it'll bring a pot of water to a boil spooky fast.


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## parbaked (Jul 21, 2020)

WPerry said:


> I really appreciate the magical way in which it doesn't heat up the kitchen as much as the alternatives and how it'll bring a pot of water to a boil spooky fast.



I am still getting used to the fact that my water boiled but the kettle handle isn't even warm.
Feels like the water in the kettle can't be hot, but it is...


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## Twigg (Jul 21, 2020)

Do you find that there are less fumes, smoke, greasy air, etc with induction rather than radiant or gas? I have read that is the case, but never really asked any users.


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## ModRQC (Jul 21, 2020)

Gas is the most greasy cooking. Hence why ventilation recommended with it have to respect a lot of things regarding CFM and distance from the cooking surface and baffle filters.

For the electric counterparts it doesn't change much, going from coils to ceran to induction. Much less heat radiating from the surface may reduce emanations a bit, but it's really the emanations from gas itself that bring those special requirements - and gas for sure is radiating the most heat.


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## ian (Jul 21, 2020)

I was frying some stuff yesterday and some of the oil splashed out of the pan and onto my hot electric burner. Lots of smoke, even a little fire, until I cleaned it off. Pretty sure it would have been less of a problem with induction.


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## WPerry (Jul 21, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Do you find that there are less fumes, smoke, greasy air, etc with induction rather than radiant or gas? I have read that is the case, but never really asked any users.



Yes. I've got ****** ventilation in my kitchen (planned remodel is on hold with all the covid fun) - we have an exhaust fan, but it's less than ideally placed - so cooking smoke/fumes can be problematic. Stuff will obviously still smoke in the pans, but we've still seen a very notable difference between the old electric cooktop and the induction. I assume that the difference is the same reason that the cleanup is easier - the surface isn't nearly as hot and splatter just doesn't continue to cook/smoke outside of the pan.


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## jankdc (Jul 21, 2020)

ian said:


> I was frying some stuff yesterday and some of the oil splashed out of the pan and onto my hot electric burner. Lots of smoke, even a little fire, until I cleaned it off. Pretty sure it would have been less of a problem with induction.


Yep. No problems with induction. The cooktop is warm but not hot, so the oil doesn't smoke when it gets on it. For easy cleanup or easy moving of cast iron or our wok, we'll put newspaper or a paper bag between the pan and the cooktop to catch any oil. 



Twigg said:


> Do you find that there are less fumes, smoke, greasy air, etc with induction rather than radiant or gas? I have read that is the case, but never really asked any users.


I really don't miss the gas fumes. I also like having an extra flat surface in the kitchen.


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## ian (Jul 21, 2020)

jankdc said:


> For easy cleanup or easy moving of cast iron or our wok, we'll put newspaper or a paper bag between the pan and the cooktop to catch any oil.



? you aren’t worried about the contact with the hot pan?


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## Twigg (Jul 21, 2020)

ian said:


> ? you aren’t worried about the contact with the hot pan?


You must be referring to induction. Is that correct? I would think you would start a fire otherwise.


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## Twigg (Jul 21, 2020)

Ian, I meant to quote the post you quoted, not single you out.


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## jankdc (Jul 21, 2020)

ian said:


> ? you aren’t worried about the contact with the hot pan?


No, it doesn't get hot enough. 



Twigg said:


> You must be referring to induction. Is that correct? I would think you would start a fire otherwise.


Yes, induction. The pan heats up, the cooking surface only gets heat from the pan.


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## SeattleBen (Jul 21, 2020)

WPerry said:


> y kitchen (planned remodel is on hold with all the covid fun) - we have an exhaust fan, but it's less than ideally placed - so cooking smoke/fumes can be problematic. Stuff will obviously still smoke in the pans, but we've still seen a very notable difference between the old electric cooktop and the induction. I assume that the difference is the same reason that the cleanup is easier - the surface isn't nearly as hot and splatter just doesn't continue to cook/smoke outside of the pan.



I don't know if this has changed but you didn't need to have a ventilation system for a restaurant with induction cooking. This is a massive cost for a new build.

Somewhere in here someone mentioned the electric draw, and I'll save some legalese translation pertaining to the national electric code, at least in the USA, but the code requirements for the circuit dealing with your range are such that they've got to take at least 40 amps. Which is likely more than you'll need to run an induction range. In fact depending on the insulation used to wire your abode the same wire might be good for up to a 50 amp circuit. This info is current up to the 2017 NEC code cycle.


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## LakeFX (Jul 22, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> I sell these things for a living.
> 
> From your picture @Danzo you seem to have a rather basic model - I'd say no convection, and not much power in the elements, and no 12" one. Probably your usual exposed baking element in the oven too. A ceran can be more agreeable, but the basics of it is that they're all pretty poor responsiveness.
> 
> ...


I came here for the knives, but I'm actively looking at induction ranges. Which ones at the lower price points do you see actually doing a good job?


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## ModRQC (Jul 22, 2020)

Frigidaire Gallery. 

Be forewarned: any brand whatsoever on the actual market has an expectancy of about 10 years of life for about any product they sell. A good part of the production will actually even last longer, but at least 50% is dead within 10 years or so. 

Frigidaire Gallery ain't the most solid or aesthetically pleasing appliance, but they do nice stoves at a very decent pricepoint, and they don't have any more problems than other companies in general. If treated with appropriate care a Frigidaire Gallery will last its time, and you'll be less pissed off when you'll have to buy another one.


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## LakeFX (Jul 22, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Frigidaire Gallery.
> 
> Be forewarned: any brand whatsoever on the actual market has an expectancy of about 10 years of life for about any product they sell. A good part of the production will actually even last longer, but at least 50% is dead within 10 years or so.
> 
> Frigidaire Gallery ain't the most solid or aesthetically pleasing appliance, but they do nice stoves at a very decent pricepoint, and they don't have any more problems than other companies in general. If treated with appropriate care a Frigidaire Gallery will last its time, and you'll be less pissed off when you'll have to buy another one.


Thanks, that also happens to be the cheapest on my list! It's basically between that and the GE Profile unless I splurge for a double oven. Great to hear the Frigidaire does a good job.


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## ModRQC (Jul 22, 2020)

LakeFX said:


> Thanks, that also happens to be the cheapest on my list! It's basically between that and the GE Profile unless I splurge for a double oven. Great to hear the Frigidaire does a good job.



I don’t sell GE. What I know is that while they get nice reviews from time to time, their repair percentage is most often about the worst on the market. Also parts and labor harder to find than some others, but that’s a moot point since most repairmen will come to your house, have a look, declare between 300 and 800 of repair cost, and if the appliance is nearing its ten years will often advise to look for another one. Also a manufacturer has the right to stop producing parts after 7 years. Shelf life may be longer but let’s say that past 7 years of life the odds for repair aren’t looking good at all.


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## LakeFX (Jul 22, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> I don’t sell GE. What I know is that while they get nice reviews from time to time, their repair percentage is most often about the worst on the market. Also parts and labor harder to find than some others, but that’s a moot point since most repairmen will come to your house, have a look, declare between 300 and 800 of repair cost, and if the appliance is nearing its ten years will often advise to look for another one. Also a manufacturer has the right to stop producing parts after 7 years. Shelf life may be longer but let’s say that past 7 years of life the odds for repair aren’t looking good at all.


You're awesome! Thanks for all the info!


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## parbaked (Jul 22, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Frigidaire Gallery.



That's what I bought for exactly those reasons. I splurged on the slide in model because I don't like the back panel controls. It was still the best value for a slide in.


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## LakeFX (Jul 22, 2020)

parbaked said:


> That's what I bought for exactly those reasons. I splurged on the slide in model because I don't like the back panel controls. It was still the best value for a slide in.


That's the one I'm looking at. Are you still happy with it? Does the convection oven do a decent job?


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## ModRQC (Jul 22, 2020)

It's a 900W convection - it helps to have more decent results when cooking multi levels or fasten a single rack cooking, but it won't be the same if you ever experienced a powerful electric convection 2K-3.5K W. However most gas oven have a 900W convection since they only plug 110V, if that's what you're used too.


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## ModRQC (Jul 22, 2020)

Ah yes... harshest most consistent complain I get from Frigidaire is that the convection fan, or the small one cooling the electronics within the control dash, are more or less "noisy".

I've heard the same about Maytag-Whirlpool. I had two Maytag convection ovens, and didn't find them particularly noisy.


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## parbaked (Jul 22, 2020)

LakeFX said:


> That's the one I'm looking at. Are you still happy with it? Does the convection oven do a decent job?


I don't love the interface , but things cook well.
For example, if you want to set a burner to "5" you have to push the button 6 times to scroll through the range.
I only used the oven to air fry, which works really well:
Winner, winner chicken dinner:


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## parbaked (Jul 22, 2020)

Simmered bolognaise for 5 hours yesterday:




It holds a simmer very well...


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## LakeFX (Jul 22, 2020)

I'm used to a 70s Hotpoint in wall oven, which actually heats quickly and cooks pretty evenly, and a GE coil cooktop. Convection will be new to me and I'm mostly interested in being able to roast a couple pans of veggies at the same time without having to rotate them multiple times, but I'm pretty sure whatever I get will be a significant upgrade! I have a single burner counter top induction unit that has the same controls. They are a little annoying, but I got used to them pretty quickly. 

That looks like a surprisingly small amount of spatter for a bolgnaise! 

I really appreciate the help!


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## ModRQC (Jul 22, 2020)

Well I can tell you right away that pre-heating won't be an improvement. Old ovens had the exposed baking element, which is less precise than hidden bake, but heats up an oven mighty quickly.

Heating an oven to 350*F usually take like 10-15 minutes by nowadays standards. One has to understand though that modern stoves have much more precise temperature sensors, and more of them, so that they will consider the temperature reached only when all sensors provide an average to the set temp.


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## LakeFX (Jul 22, 2020)

I can definitely live with that trade-off!


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## ModRQC (Jul 22, 2020)

With an old oven, your average pizza box recommending "425*F for 16 minutes" (example) I would set the oven to about 375-400 max, and cook like 10-13 minutes perhaps?

With the new oven you may find that you can follow guidelines pretty closely.

Of course, nothing can replace experience with a specific appliance, and a chef's instincts - and a good food thermometer, hey!


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 25, 2020)

I've been gearing up to buy a new induction range for a while now. Which manufacturer/brand has the best warranty, parts-supply, and after-sale service? (in Canada)

That said, my 30+ year-old Jenn-Air downdraft has been soooo reliable, but I now need a new coil-burner module.

I'm nervous about spending a ton of cash on a new stove when I read so many negative on-line reviews of many of the newer model stoves. Is it safer to buy separate cook-top and wall-oven compared to a slide-in range?(only one item might have issues, rather than the entire range becoming inoperable, and possibly waiting months for over-priced service and parts). In my book, "looks" are important, but they take second-place vs reliability.

I've recently up-graded all my cookware to induction, including All-Clad stainless pots/pans, and skillets, LeCreuset and Staub enameled cast-iron Dutch ovens, and LeCreuset stainless saucier. I've also got a few old cast-iron pans.


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## parbaked (Jul 25, 2020)

Bobby2shots said:


> Is it safer to buy separate cook-top and wall-oven compared to a slide-in range?
> I've recently up-graded all my cookware to induction, including All-Clad stainless pots/pans, and skillets, LeCreuset and Staub enameled cast-iron Dutch ovens, and LeCreuset stainless saucier. I've also got a few old cast-iron pans.



In the US, cooktops and wall ovens cost much more than a slide-in range. 
My slide-in was cheaper than the cheapest cooktop alone. Wall ovens are even more expensive. 
I was told it's a demand thing, like counter depth refrigerators...


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## ModRQC (Jul 25, 2020)

Bobby2shots said:


> I've been gearing up to buy a new induction range for a while now. Which manufacturer/brand has the best warranty, parts-supply, and after-sale service? (in Canada)
> 
> That said, my 30+ year-old Jenn-Air downdraft has been soooo reliable, but I now need a new coil-burner module.
> 
> ...



Whirlpool is the best covered brand in Canada - and USA most probably. Meaning you have like one parts center and three repair companies in about any big enough city - it can easily be thrice that amount in any major city.

Whilrpool also means: Maytag, KitchenAid, Jenn-Air, Amana.

Only inductions in all these brands, when speaking about a freestanding range, is KitchenAid, either front controls or with a back panel. Both are expensive.

Frigidaire Gallery does one for much less money. Less powerful, less comprehensive, not as solid, but good enough for the about 10 years these things last nowadays.




parbaked said:


> In the US, cooktops and wall ovens cost much more than a slide-in range.
> My slide-in was cheaper than the cheapest cooktop alone. Wall ovens are even more expensive.
> I was told it's a demand thing, like counter depth refrigerators...



Whirlpool has an induction cooktop that usually sells for less than the cheapest induction slide-in I would recommend. However, buying both pieces (with wall oven) will tend to get at the prices you can have a high quality electric ceran. High quality induction front controls sells for little less than a good enough wall oven and induction cooktop.

When you already have built-in I advise to stay there - I found it in my experience so much more convivial having two separates spaces - where I can be fully busy sauteeing stuff and watching a sauce while my girlfriend could get the chicken out of the oven. Even in single cooking, and having to cover both spaces, I liked it better that way.

When you don't, well obviously it will cost you an arm in kitchen redesign - especially if you have a wife. She'll probably want you to do the whole house "while you're there".


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 25, 2020)

parbaked said:


> In the US, cooktops and wall ovens cost much more than a slide-in range.
> My slide-in was cheaper than the cheapest cooktop alone. Wall ovens are even more expensive.
> I was told it's a demand thing, like counter depth refrigerators...



Good point. I hadn't really looked at separates yet.


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 25, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Whirlpool is the best covered brand in Canada - and USA most probably. Meaning you have like one parts center and three repair companies in about any big enough city - it can easily be thrice that amount in any major city.



Thanks ModRQC.



ModRQC said:


> When you already have built-in I advise to stay there - I found it in my experience so much more convivial having two separates spaces - where I can be fully busy sauteeing stuff and watching a sauce while my girlfriend could get the chicken out of the oven. Even in single cooking, and having to cover both spaces, I liked it better that way.



My current stove location is against a wall. Since the wiring and ceiling ventilation are already there, I was thinking of installing a built-in wall-oven in that same location, then installing an induction cooktop on a kitchen-island (which I presently don't have). I'd gain a fairly large amount of cupboard space at both locations, plus an eat-in-the-kitchen location.

Of course, I'd also need ventilation at the cooktop. I'm wondering how well the pop-up/push-down ventilators work. (placed just behind the cooktop surface). I'd imagine that it won't be quite as efficient as a ceiling-mounted ventilator,,, especially when using the front burners, which would be farthest away from the rear-mounted fan intake. I alread have electricity overhead, so that part's not a big deal. I'm fairly familiar with air-flow design. I used to design complete air-filtration and dust-collection systems for wood-working shops.


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## ModRQC (Jul 25, 2020)

Bobby2shots said:


> Thanks ModRQC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmmmm... well first you don't need ventilation for the wall oven, so that's a bit lost there. Get the cooktop there instead, and wall oven somewhere close by - all centered around the island if you think it best, or around your favorite location for preps. Of course in small kitchens it's all the same thing, but if yours is vast don't forget the best workflow.

And also, you wouldn't get that much cupboard space back where a wall oven would replace a stove. You could possibly add a drawer about 6 inches tall total underneath. Going 27" wall oven to save 3" for more cupboards would lead you nowhere.

The gist being, your stove measures 30"W x 36"H x26-28"D. A typical 30" wall oven will be 30"W x 28-30"H x 24" deep. It's basically the same bulk. With some brands you can install a cooktop right on top of a wall oven. But that's just like a stove though, so I never saw any point to it.

Edit: and you would add a drawer underneath the wall oven to basically lose on the other hand the same amount of space where the cooktop would be. Your usual cooktop will be 30"W x 21"D x 4-5"H. If you ever go there though, that's where a cooktop can be REALLY fun: buy a 36" unit instead of 30". There I would invest in a high-quality one. My experience was with a 36" Wolf ceran, with one 12" triple burner, one 9" dual burner, one 8" burner, all three with incredible power, plus the usual 6" elements, two of them. Most flexible cooktop I ever used. I miss it, miss my wall oven too, a lot since I'm back onto a 30" stove.


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## Rangen (Jul 25, 2020)

I admit I've never used induction, but I am so fond of gas, that in your situation I would put in a giant propane tank and run lines to the stove area. Induction may be as responsive as gas, I don't know, but there's nothing like looking at the flame and judging the heat, and those skills will transfer to another cooktop effortlessly. It's irritating to acquire expertise like "sear on 8, simmer on 2" that is only good for one time and place.


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 25, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Hmmmm... well first you don't need ventilation for the wall oven, so that's a bit lost there. Get the cooktop there instead, and wall oven somewhere close by - all centered around the island if you think it best, or around your favorite location for preps. Of course in small kitchens it's all the same thing, but if yours is vast don't forget the best workflow.
> 
> And also, you wouldn't get that much cupboard space back where a wall oven would replace a stove.



I was thinking a 30" wide floor-to-ceiling cabinet where the 30" stove presently resides, with the 28"wall oven inserted at a comfortable/convenient height in that cabinet,,,, storage for pots/pans above and below the oven, with a small ventilation fan for dealing with the ovens' heat loss into that cabinet.

I'm just kickin' tires here,,,, speculating. At the end of the day, staying with a 30" range in its' present location, would certainly be the cheapest/simplest solution.



ModRQC said:


> If you ever go there though, that's where a cooktop can be REALLY fun: buy a 36" unit instead of 30". There I would invest in a high-quality one. My experience was with a 36" Wolf ceran, with one 12" triple burner, one 9" dual burner, one 8" burner, all three with incredible power, plus the usual 6" elements, two of them. Most flexible cooktop I ever used. I miss it, miss my wall oven too, a lot since I'm back onto a 30" stove.



I REALLY LIKE the 36" cook-top idea and that would definetly require an island,,, or better yet, a peninsula.

My kitchen is not very big; it's basically a larger C-shaped galley-style kitchen,,, 12'2" x 12'6". (Cabinets on three walls) 
_________<wall>______
I F F (Shelves) <entry
<D-R...........................s 
I _______ __v__ _____I

(forget that dotted line from D-R over to the S. That's open floor space. and editing problems.
 (the "v" indicates my sink location, and a 6-foot wide north-facing window. My cabinets cover three walls that surround me as I look out that window. F's indicate fridges. S= stove. "D-R" is the opening to the dining-room. Sorry, my diagram sucks.

Placing an island with proper clearances would be tight. (dishwasher-door and walk-around clearance, etc), but not impossible. I wouldn't want to go less than 3'6" for walk-around clearance, and I'd actually prefer a 4' minimum. My biggest problem there is, I have two 21 cu.ft refrigerators standing side-by-side along one side of the wall that's located opposite the "C". Getting rid of the two refigerators for one larger fridge would be essential. I need a BIG fridge. A single 28 cu.ft.is probably too small.


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## ModRQC (Jul 25, 2020)

Bobby2shots said:


> I was thinking a 30" wide floor-to-ceiling cabinet where the 30" stove presently resides, with the 28"wall oven inserted at a comfortable/convenient height in that cabinet,,,, storage for pots/pans above and below the oven, with a small ventilation fan for dealing with the ovens' heat loss into that cabinet.
> 
> I'm just kickin' tires here,,,, speculating. At the end of the day, staying with a 30" range in its' present location, would certainly be the cheapest/simplest solution.
> 
> ...



Sorry if I didn’t sift through all the details as of yet, but I want to remind you that if you have a ventilation installed, put the cooktop beneath it. Whatever what the ventilation is, or what you decide is worth buying to replace it, the evacuation is already there, so unless it goes like through three elbows and 20 feet of vents, keep it there especially if it’s a direct out ventilation. This is the best - least noise and keeps the most of what the hood can achieve in CFM.


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## ModRQC (Jul 25, 2020)

Rangen said:


> I admit I've never used induction, but I am so fond of gas, that in your situation I would put in a giant propane tank and run lines to the stove area. Induction may be as responsive as gas, I don't know, but there's nothing like looking at the flame and judging the heat, and those skills will transfer to another cooktop effortlessly. It's irritating to acquire expertise like "sear on 8, simmer on 2" that is only good for one time and place.



@Bobby2shots I think lives in about the same settings I do. Over here in QC, natural gas doesn’t go through any city, and propane gas is a racket. The savings if any are initially far outstripped by the costs of having gas where it isn’t already.


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 25, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> @Bobby2shots I think lives in about the same settings I do. Over here in QC, natural gas doesn’t go through any city, and propane gas is a racket. The savings if any are initially far outstripped by the costs of having gas where it isn’t already.



I'm lucky in that respect; Gaz Metropolitain installed a major gas-line to a factory that's a few miles up the road from me. That gas line goes right through the end of my driveway. For the first few years, they only served that factory, but a few years later they allowed private homes to be connected,,,, with the condition that the home-owners convert their heating systems to all natural gas. Installation would be free for connection to the outside wall of the house,,, but internal connection would be through a private contractor, and the responsibility of the home-owner..

That said; I didn't opt to go the gas route. Gas prices are relatively high here in Quebec. Electricity is getting up there too. I have a 400 amp electrical entrance (twin 200 amp entrance). I have a fairly large house, so I have a 200 amp panel, plus a 30kw "tank" for the bi-energy furnace and AC. The house is roughly 4k sq. ft.


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## ModRQC (Jul 25, 2020)

I'm not so down with electricity and gas regulations vs. requirements.

Believe me I have enough reminding all my models codes first hand, knowing all my specs, doing IT work, dealing with service inquiries, AND keep at being the best salesman on the floor.

And such limited knowledge still allows me to be worried that my "question-within-an-advice" didn't get answered: what is it with your ventilation unit, and how you plan to move it on an island (problematic and expensive) rather than use what is there for what it does solve of problems and circumvent in spending?


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 26, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> I'm not so down with electricity and gas regulations vs. requirements.
> 
> Believe me I have enough reminding all my models codes first hand, knowing all my specs, doing IT work, dealing with service inquiries, AND keep at being the best salesman on the floor.
> 
> And such limited knowledge still allows me to be worried that my "question-within-an-advice" didn't get answered: what is it with your ventilation unit, and how you plan to move it on an island (problematic and expensive) rather than use what is there for what it does solve of problems and circumvent in spending?



If I do build an island or a peninsula, I would most likely be changing the old ventilation unit for a new and more modern ceiling-mounted hood with included LED lighting. That would depend on the +/- of downdraft vs o'head ventilation. Either installation would not be a big deal, since the roof-vent is already there, and so is the wiring. It would be a simple matter to run new ducting from the ceiling hood to the roof vent. I can do most of that myself,,, and I have a couple of friends who do electrical work for a living. If I go downdraft, that would involve a new 110v circuit, and I could easily vent inside with proper filtration, or, vent outside.

My existing hood has probably been there since the house was originally built, in 1968. It works great, but needs a face-lift, especially if I get all new appliances.


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## juice (Jul 26, 2020)

Having used both gas and induction, I'll happily use either, although I do prefer induction - no extraneous gasses around, doesn't heat the place up, no open flames, turns itself off if it works out there's a problem. Here in this apartment we have no gas and no option for gas, and we only have a limited electricity supply to the cooktop (oven is on a separate circuit) so the new induction cooktop had to be throttled (in firmware), but it's still awesome. The speed it heats at, the control (18 levels with a fingertip slide), the low-heat-level accuracy, being able to link two zones for our griddle, the ease of cleanup - all terrific. Very simple to use - have the pot on the correct zone, turn it on, slide your finger to the level you want, done.


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## ModRQC (Jul 26, 2020)

That does sound like what a KitchenAid does to me, but obviously I’m far from knowing any induction appliance in this world.


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## ModRQC (Jul 26, 2020)

Bobby2shots said:


> If I do build an island or a peninsula, I would most likely be changing the old ventilation unit for a new and more modern ceiling-mounted hood with included LED lighting. That would depend on the +/- of downdraft vs o'head ventilation. Either installation would not be a big deal, since the roof-vent is already there, and so is the wiring. It would be a simple matter to run new ducting from the ceiling hood to the roof vent. I can do most of that myself,,, and I have a couple of friends who do electrical work for a living. If I go downdraft, that would involve a new 110v circuit, and I could easily vent inside with proper filtration, or, vent outside.
> 
> My existing hood has probably been there since the house was originally built, in 1968. It works great, but needs a face-lift, especially if I get all new appliances.



Then, lf you know that an island hood is worth about twice to triple what a similar quality under cabinet, wall mount or built-in can do, and prefer it altogether, go for it. In Canada I would advise for Venmar/Best Ispira. Not overly expensive for all it does right. Chinese brands will be less expensive - and basically suck except sucking what it’s supposed to suck.

Oh and basically your typical island hood is 6 inches larger than your surface - meaning they’re mostly available in 36 in. for 30 in. cooktops, and 42 in. for 36 in. cooktops. Reason being that location in the « middle » of a room means more dispersion than what an equally large island hood could do well. The overlarge format deals with that lesser effeciency.


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## ModRQC (Jul 26, 2020)

While I'm fluent in English, speaking of what I've learned to theorize in French mostly seems to rob me of my best efforts. Sorry for all the editing that takes place after I post. It would do me quite well to have a LOT more anglophone customers in a week than those I get in a year.


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## ModRQC (Jul 26, 2020)

Now if any of you guys want to know what prices mean with appliances, I'll be happy to share some important general aspects with you. If that kind of knowledge was widely distributed, it would just save me a ton of repeated explanations without changing a single thing to how this market is ruled.


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 26, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Then, lf you know that an island hood is worth about twice to triple what a similar quality under cabinet, wall mount or built-in can do, and prefer it altogether, go for it. In Canada I would advise for Venmar/Best Ispira. Not overly expensive for all it does right. Chinese brands will be less expensive - and basically suck except sucking what it’s supposed to suck.
> 
> Oh and basically your typical island hood is 6 inches larger than your surface - meaning they’re mostly available in 36 in. for 30 in. cooktops, and 42 in. for 36 in. cooktops. Reason being that location in the « middle » of a room means more dispersion than what an equally large island hood could do well. The overlarge format deals with that lesser effeciency.



OK, thanks ModRQC,,,,, that's good to know. 

When all is said and done, I may still keep my current stove position, and simply buy a new 30" range, but a peninsula sure would be nice. In my kitchen's current configuration, I find myself always facing a wall, or looking out the window, rather than looking inward into the kitchen. If I'm busy in the kitchen, and a visitor drops by, I have to stop what I'm doing and join him/her in the dining room.


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 26, 2020)

juice said:


> Having used both gas and induction, I'll happily use either, although I do prefer induction - no extraneous gasses around, doesn't heat the place up, no open flames, turns itself off if it works out there's a problem. Here in this apartment we have no gas and no option for gas, and we only have a limited electricity supply to the cooktop (oven is on a separate circuit) so the new induction cooktop had to be throttled (in firmware), but it's still awesome. The speed it heats at, the control (18 levels with a fingertip slide), the low-heat-level accuracy, being able to link two zones for our griddle, the ease of cleanup - all terrific. Very simple to use - have the pot on the correct zone, turn it on, slide your finger to the level you want, done.


 Great post juice. You sure make a convincing argument for induction. I bought a small 1800w portable induction cooktop a while back, but haven;t used it yet. I bought it more for the convenience of having a spare portable burner that I can use indoors/ outdoors. I've really got to get cracking and give it a go.


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## ModRQC (Jul 26, 2020)

Bobby2shots said:


> OK, thanks ModRQC,,,,, that's good to know.
> 
> When all is said and done, I may still keep my current stove position, and simply buy a new 30" range, but a peninsula sure would be nice. In my kitchen's current configuration, I find myself always facing a wall, or looking out the window, rather than looking inward into the kitchen. If I'm busy in the kitchen, and a visitor drops by, I have to stop what I'm doing and join him/her in the dining room.



I think this has more to do with your perception of what cook you are in some places/moments vs others.

Meaning, yes, anyone that has worked pro that would tell me that, I'd understand even though many a pro kitchen I've seen is far from always be looking directly at the whole picture. Against a wall is a common picture I'm sure many pros around here will relate to.

This is now your home and your money. If "Benny" is invited for dining, and you cannot great him immediately, will Benny just go away cursing your name and making you lose business?

A 30" stove, to a limited extent of time nowadays, will always do what it does best, or can do best: compact the need of a cooktop and an oven, and perhaps have the aesthetic flair and cooking flexibility you want - if you'll shell the appropriate money. Like buying a more expensive knife from a better maker - some half the price knife can cut as good, but you've decided to entitle yourself to even more than that - all good to you, all good to your usual salesperson who's working with spiffs and generalized commission, or is banking on a bigger bottom line for the investment made - the appliance's cost was higher, but if you can have some volume, then the same 15% margin of profit now means 400$ instead of 200$ on that cheaper alternative you were selling before because it was an easy pricepoint. And really, once one looks at these, while the prices aren't always right, they are coherent within an easy pricepoint market. Yes, an induction front control Frigidaire Gallery is 2K - 2.5K, and the KitchenAid is 1K more. But while neither are nowhere near worth that price in material, the comparison of one to another entitles KitchenAid to sell for 1K more - that on the CAD market, hindered by paying exchange rate on both these US based appliances.

And... so on for now.


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 26, 2020)

Here's a possibe dilema;

I "want" an induction stove,,,, but I'm afraid I'll miss the electric grill on my old JennAir stove. Being able to grill indoors during cold and blustery Quebec winters is wonderful. What's the solution there? Is there a combo induction stove available? (electric grill on one side, induction burners on the other)

My old JennAir has plug-in burner modules. I can switch my coil-burner modules for a grill-module,,, or a deep-fry module.

Have I just "invented" a new product niche???


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## ModRQC (Jul 26, 2020)

Nope you didn’t, and yes at the same time. Jenn-Air does make a modular cooktop these days. It is overly expensive but you can configure pretty much how you want. I don’t sell Jenn-Air anymore, the whole production has veered towards very high end built-in appliances and we have no real market there so I don’t have much details.

You’ll probably never see a modular stove again though - at least not in the regular brands. You’d have to search for what the high end does offer, if any.


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## Michi (Jul 26, 2020)

Nice up-market options here. Not cheap, though.






Gaggenau luxury Home Appliances for Kitchens | Gaggenau


Gaggenau luxury home appliances offer a convincing performance & handcrafted quality. Let yourself be inspired by our design. The difference is Gaggenau




www.gaggenau.com


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## LakeFX (Jul 27, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Now if any of you guys want to know what prices mean with appliances, I'll be happy to share some important general aspects with you. If that kind of knowledge was widely distributed, it would just save me a ton of repeated explanations without changing a single thing to how this market is ruled.



I would appreciate your thoughts on prices with appliances!


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 27, 2020)

Michi said:


> Nice up-market options here. Not cheap, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Veeeery Interesting Michi,,, thanks for that link.


LakeFX said:


> I would appreciate your thoughts on prices with appliances!



I can't wait!!! That ought to be a real eye-opener considering U.S. manufactured goods selling into the Canadian market, where we have to pay a 37% premium on the dollar and an average 15% sales-tax above that.

Just for laughs,,, check out the prices of REAL pro-kitchen stoves,,,, Garland,,,, Vulcan,,, etc. and compare that to the "pro-look" stoves for hi-end home kitchens. The disparity is outrageous, with pro-look sometimes going for 4-5 times the price of a true commercial stove.


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## Twigg (Jul 27, 2020)

Check out Yale Appliance Blog. They seem to have a lot of decent info too.






Home Appliance Blog | Yale Appliance


Insights, reviews, and resources about buying home appliances and plumbing.




blog.yaleappliance.com


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## parbaked (Jul 27, 2020)

Bobby2shots said:


> Just for laughs,,, check out the prices of REAL pro-kitchen stoves,,,, Garland,,,, Vulcan,,, etc. and compare that to the "pro-look" stoves for hi-end home kitchens. The disparity is outrageous, with pro-look sometimes going for 4-5 times the price of a true commercial stove.



The commercial equipment is cheaper to manufacture because it doesn't require the same features, safety standards and insulation as residential stoves. For example, wood cabinetry must be 6' away from a commercial range.


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 27, 2020)

parbaked said:


> The commercial equipment is cheaper to manufacture because it doesn't require the same features, safety standards and insulation as residential stoves. *For example, wood cabinetry must be 6' away from a commercial range.*



True,, and sprinkler systems, etc. Some manufacturers provide "zero" warranty or parts-service on residential installations of commercial kitchen products.

That said,,, and "people are saying you know", you need a Bently Flying Spur parked in the driveway, if you're going to "qualify" as a potential hi-end pro-look stove buyer.


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## pleue (Jul 27, 2020)

Gaggenau makes lovely products and their older stuff can be had relatively cheap on the used market if you keep an eye out. I have one of their 5 burner cooktops and a wok burner sitting to go into a tiny home project I'm going to start soon. Don't have their induction hob but their overall build quality is very high.

Commercial ranges shouldn't go into residential spaces for what many folks have said. You can get a 3rd degree burn from most oven doors. 

I do have a vollrath mirage induction burner that's a counter top unit that I really like. It has a knob to adjust temperature which tactile-wise is much more pleasant and real world useful for me when compared to a push button.

I've outfitted and worked in complete electrical kitchens commercially (no-hood) and found them okay to cook in and the ovens to be a dream. That said, induction gives off a tiiiiiiiny hum at least to me. It's nothing compared to a fridge compressor cycling on and off but over time it gives me a headache and I hardly ever get headaches. Could be psychosomatic but it's what I've experienced.

Several municipalities (Berkeley) are phasing out new gas meters in new construction so electric may be your only option at some point in the future. That means 400amp services for smaller homes moving forward. 

I cook on a 1930's gas range (6 burners, a griddle, an oven, and a standalone broiler/salemander in a 42" footprint). It's not fast but it's fun for me and I love to look at it. I have a wok burner outside for high heat.


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## pleue (Jul 27, 2020)

Fischer and paykel also makes component untis for gas and induction. I like their stuff as well.


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 27, 2020)

pleue said:


> Fischer and paykel also makes component untis for gas and induction. I like their stuff as well.



My girlfriend has Fisher & Paykel fridge and stove (w radiant ceramic top). They're gorgeous to look at, but she finds the stove VERY slow,,, both the burners, and the oven. She also said "whoever designed this stove, has probably never actually used a stove before". Turns out she really dislikes the oven shelves, because they're shaped like a tray,,, with a raised lip that surrounds the shelves,, and because of that, you have to lift stuff out of the oven, rather than simply sliding out. Her previous stove was also a radiant ceramic-top stove by Amana,,, and she finds that stove MUCH quicker than the F&P.


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