# Satanite



## Marko Tsourkan

Where do you guys get your satanite?

M


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## Michael Rader

Pottery supply store here in Seattle. How much do you need? If you can't get any around your place, let me know and I'll send you some.
-M


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## Marko Tsourkan

Michael Rader said:


> Pottery supply store here in Seattle. How much do you need? If you can't get any around your place, let me know and I'll send you some.
> -M


 
Thanks Michael. I won't need much, just enough for a few blades. I will inquire with pottery supply stores and if I can't find it locally, I might take you up on your offer.

Marko


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## JohnnyChance

Next time I go to Hell I can pick some up for you Marko...


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## Marko Tsourkan

I was wondering about the name satanite.


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## JohnnyChance

Marko Tsourkan said:


> I was wondering about the name satanite.


 
I figured the thread would be about some material you renamed Satanite because it was giving you so much trouble while working on it.


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## Dave Martell

What's Marko up to?


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## StephanFowler

either lining a forge or clay hardening a blade

I get mine from Darren Ellis

http://refractory.elliscustomknifeworks.com/


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## Bill Burke

Hey Marko, if checking pottery supply stores if they say they don't have satanite ask for smooth set kiln cement. K&G sells Satanite in a five pound jug also. http://www.knifeandgun.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RS1 it costs more this way but is nice to have the storage jug and five pounds is a lot for playing with a hamon. If that is what you are doing then it also helps to run it through one of those cheapie coffie grinders before mixing in the water.


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## Marko Tsourkan

Thanks guys!

What am I up to? I just got some W2 from Aldo. He is 45min away from me so I paid him a visit plus exchanged some 52100 I got from him earlier (his 3/16 almost 1/4"thick!). Met Sam Salvati at Aldo's shop/store. 

So, when I have a little more time, I will start experimenting with heat treating W2 and 52100. As Bill correctly concluded, satanite is to play with hamon. 

M


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## Dave Martell

Skinny W2 - I knew it!


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## Marko Tsourkan

Dave Martell said:


> Skinny W2 - I knew it!


 
Yes, custom rolled W2 (.125), but double the price of a regular thickness stock (.25") unfortunately. Saved myself a lot of time grinding and normalizing.

Meeting Aldo was fun. If he comes to ECG, he can bring steel with him, if any of you guys need anything. 

M


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## StephanFowler

Marko Tsourkan said:


> Yes, custom rolled W2 (.125), but double the price of a regular thickness stock (.25") unfortunately. Saved myself a lot of time grinding and normalizing.
> 
> Meeting Aldo was fun. If he comes to ECG, he can bring steel with him, if any of you guys need anything.
> 
> M




BAHH, you should get it in 2 1/2" round bar like me, it's so much more versatile.


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## Marko Tsourkan

StephanFowler said:


> BAHH, you should get it in 2 1/2" round bar like me, it's so much more versatile.


 
Hehe, I wish. I would not have an excuse then to pass on LGs I see periodically for sale. Unfortunately, I can't have an open flame in my workshop (insurance and liability reasons), so for the time being, I have to select materials I can work with. Down the road, I will consider other options. 

M


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## Eamon Burke

You should do some WIP pics. I would keep a keen eye out for warpage...that's mighty thin steel you got there.

Round Bar.....sheesh....


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## Marko Tsourkan

johndoughy said:


> You should do some WIP pics. I would keep a keen eye out for warpage...that's mighty thin steel you got there.
> 
> Round Bar.....sheesh....


 
It's going to be months (at best) before I have anything to show. Not very keen on WIP, as I find stopping and taking pictures disruptive. 

M


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## JohnnyChance

Marko Tsourkan said:


> It's going to be months (at best) before I have anything to show. Not very keen on WIP, as I find stopping and taking pictures disruptive.
> 
> M


 
I can hang around your shop and drink beers while taking pictures if you find that a more elegant solution


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## Marko Tsourkan

JohnnyChance said:


> I can hang around your shop and drink beers while taking pictures if you find that a more elegant solution


 
Sure. I have an arm chair in the shop and Internet, but you would have you wear a respirator.


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## l r harner

you can blame me for the over sized 52100 i told aldo to get it that way. you can always grind down but you cant add back a easy 

and i have the really skinny W2 3/32 thick but i dont know if he has any left


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## Bill Burke

Marko, If you are going to try a hamon on 52100 you can save yourself some time and effort by not bothering, it dont work. You can get a temper line by heating and quenching only half the blade but it is not the wispy cloudy transition of a Japanese hamon.


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## Marko Tsourkan

Bill,
satanite is for W2. I won't attempt hamon on 52100 until after I visit you. 

I generally tend knives thicker at the spine near the handle, so stock I am interested in is 1/8-3/16 range. As Butch suggested, grinding excess is not an issue. 

Please take a note that I am a complete noob in this field, though I have been reading, talking, and thinking about the subject of knife-making for a long time. I suspect it has to do with a procrastination, but I like to call it 'being cautious' and approach new things with small steps.  So, anything you guys are willing to share is appreciated.

Marko


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## Aldo Bruno

Hey Guys, was just reading about Markos Great Adventure to New Jersey Marko, it was nice to have you.

Butch,and anyone else interested, there is plenty of 3/32 W-2 to be had. I ran about the same weight on all the sizes under 1/4" and 3/32,being the thinnest yielded the most(and cost the most!). Hand rolling is about the only option we had for the thinner stock. I didn't think so many would be interested in using it for cutlery and folders.

I am very interested in going to the East Coast Gathering. If someone could fill me in I'd love to come.


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## JohnnyChance

Aldo Bruno said:


> I am very interested in going to the East Coast Gathering. If someone could fill me in I'd love to come.


 
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/announcement.php?f=4


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## Dave Martell

Aldo Bruno said:


> Hey Guys, was just reading about Markos Great Adventure to New Jersey Marko, it was nice to have you.
> 
> Butch,and anyone else interested, there is plenty of 3/32 W-2 to be had. I ran about the same weight on all the sizes under 1/4" and 3/32,being the thinnest yielded the most(and cost the most!). Hand rolling is about the only option we had for the thinner stock. I didn't think so many would be interested in using it for cutlery and folders.
> 
> I am very interested in going to the East Coast Gathering. If someone could fill me in I'd love to come.




Yo Aldo, I just shot you an email.


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## Aldo Bruno

This is a quote from Kevin Cashen. I thought Marko might be interested in what it has to say. I will bring some samples of this material for anyone who wants to give it a try. I don't sell it. I get it at the Heating $ Air Conditioning Supply House 2 doors down from the shop. I use this material to coat the inside of my Forges as well. It is rated to 3000 degrees.

"the American katana makers whose work impressed me the most all like furnace cement, it is convenient, easy to work with, readily available and highly effective. I have done side by side tests with furnace cement and satanite and found adhesion and insulative ability in the furnace cement to be much more to my liking. Furnace cement ashi have given me and others very crisp and defined hamon activity. Whomever's advice you take be certain not to mix and match advice from water quenchers with oil quenchers. You will need slightly different clay application and temperatures depending on what you are quenching into. For water you will have to take the low side on the heat and apply the clay more, for oil you will go higher in temp and take it a little easier with the clay (e.g. no slurry washes, and keep ashi off the very edge)."


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## Marko Tsourkan

Aldo Bruno said:


> This is a quote from Kevin Cashen. I thought Marko might be interested in what it has to say. I will bring some samples of this material for anyone who wants to give it a try. I don't sell it. I get it at the Heating $ Air Conditioning Supply House 2 doors down from the shop. I use this material to coat the inside of my Forges as well. It is rated to 3000 degrees.
> 
> "the American katana makers whose work impressed me the most all like furnace cement, it is convenient, easy to work with, readily available and highly effective. I have done side by side tests with furnace cement and satanite and found adhesion and insulative ability in the furnace cement to be much more to my liking. Furnace cement ashi have given me and others very crisp and defined hamon activity. Whomever's advice you take be certain not to mix and match advice from water quenchers with oil quenchers. You will need slightly different clay application and temperatures depending on what you are quenching into. For water you will have to take the low side on the heat and apply the clay more, for oil you will go higher in temp and take it a little easier with the clay (e.g. no slurry washes, and keep ashi off the very edge)."


 
Hey Aldo, 
I am in for a sample. 

M


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## Michael Rader

Hi Marko. Just sent you a jar of satanite. Let me know what you think of it compared to the furnace cement. 
-M


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## Marko Tsourkan

Michael Rader said:


> Hi Marko. Just sent you a jar of satanite. Let me know what you think of it compared to the furnace cement.
> -M


 
Thanks, Michael !
It's going to be a little while before I get to testing though. Look forward to it. 

M


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