# Looking for 1st and only J-knife: Gyuto



## Khorax (Jul 18, 2017)

Hello community! I recently got into knife sharpening and finally realized after 32 years on this planet that my Henckles are pretty crappy knives, which is crazy because I'm an avid home cook. I've been using bad tools my whole life?... Damn. I've been reading up for about a month straight on as much as I can about sharpening and knife steels, shapes, functions and really need your help to narrow it down to a good fit for me. Really looking forward to your recommendations to find my first ever (and if I do it right, "only") J-knife: Gyuto. I don't want to start a knife collection, I just want one Gyuto and maybe a petty later on if I think I need it.

LOCATION
What country are you in? 
Canada, Manitoba, Winnipeg

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
Anywhere from 240mm to 270mm. Hard to tell which one I would prefer, but I can adapt to whichever.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
1000$ CAD (taxes, shipping, customs all included)



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
HOME

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
General all purpose tasks, mostly "light" tasks like :
Slicing/chopping/mincing Vegetables, fruit and mostly boneless meat.
Crushing garlic with side of knife
Occasionally breaking poultry
No big bones, no fish prep

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Zwilling Pro 8 inch chef knife

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push Cut - Chop - Draw- Slice - Rock

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
-NO WEDGING above all else! PLEASE! The ultimate test for me would be no wedging when dicing an onion and doing the first horizontal cuts with the tip of the blade while holding the onion at it's tip.
-Thin behind the edge
-Less of a belly than the monstrous one of the Zwilling chef Pro. I would rather a flat-ish belly
-Not worrying about chipping the knife when doing routing chopping or delicately slicing through a chicken joint
-Durable, resistant japanese handle. Not worrying about getting the handle dirty with raw meat juice during prep. I don't know anything about the woods used for handles, I just want something that will last forever and a finish that can resist bacteria and acidity. I will always wash the knife but it's still gotta be durable. I'm open to handle swapping.
-Some stain/corrosion resistance, but does not need to be full stainless. I just don't want a very reactive steel. 
-Good food release. 
-Finish of the blade can be whatever, I don't really know if some serve a purpose like maybe a hammer finish gives better food release? I would want the look of the blade to serve a purpose, more then a flashy damascus pattern which might get ruined if I start having to thin the blade. This isn't a knife for show and tell, i'm gonna use the crap out of it. Damascus is a plus, not seeking it out though.
-I would like a "thinner" knife. It's gotta be solid though, but nothing too heavy, I'm not hacking any bones except maybe delicately cutting/slicing through the occasional chicken joint. Nothing too light: I want to be able to crush garlic with the side of it without breaking it. I've heard people say "medium gyutos can still be lasers"... that's kinda what I want.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Yes (end grain larchwood from Nova Scotia)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, Japanese waterstones (220, 1000, 3000 grit), strops. Have only sharpened western knives though...

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Always want to learn more, i'm not a pro.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Is Naniwa 3000 Chosera a high enough grit to finish a Japanese Gyuto on? Or do I need to get a higher stone? I don't really care about polished look, it just has to cut well.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I want to invest into a medium to high quality Gyuto. I don't mind spending up to 1000$ CAD if required, but I would want that money to go towards functional things, like better steel, geometry, grind, durable handle, etc. If possible, I would also like the knife to be available and in stock so I can order soon, because i'm losing sleep over this! Even willing to buy second hand, but I don't have access to that part of the forum yet. In summary: Thin but solid, not chippy, no wedging, good food release and not too reactive, 240mm to 270mm. Must ship to Canada.

Thank you in advance for all your valuable input.
Sincerely,
Phil


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## foody518 (Jul 18, 2017)

Sounds like what you specified for handle preference doesn't mesh super well with what you're saying you want from a handle. Keep in mind wood is a porous material. Might need to look into sealed or resin impregnated wooden handles. Or just get something that fits all other requirements then get it rehandled

Maybe look at the Wakui Kasumi, Itinomonn Kasumi, Gengetsu style of knives


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## Chef_ (Jul 18, 2017)

Unfortunately theres no gyuto i would recommend for slicing anywhere near bones, one wrong brush up against a bone and there goes your blade. the japanese believe in specialized blades for every task, honesuki for chicken butchering, deba for fish butchering, yanagi for slicing. im not saying its necesarry to buy every single type of blade, but youre not going to be able to use your gyuto as an "all-purpose" knife. Depending on the thinness of the knife, it cant even be used as an all purpose vegetable knife, as using a laser to cut hard squash or corn cobs will cause chipping. 

if you insist on breaking garlic with it I recommend a medium thickness gyuto , with a hardness of about 58-59. No offense but it sounds like there is going to be a learning curve for you, and anything above 60 HRC is not very forgiving of mistakes. I wouldnt steer you anywhere near a laser. As for cutting up chicken, just get a western fillet/boning knife for those tasks, Global makes them too if you insist on buying from a Japanese manufacturer. 

For you i recommend the Goko white #1 240


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## Benuser (Jul 18, 2017)

With what you expect from handle and blade, perhaps a medium-weight Western is more suited. Think a Masahiro Virgin Carbon, or a Misono Swedish Carbon. 
No good idea to put such an amount of money in your very first Japanese carbon.


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## Khorax (Jul 18, 2017)

Thanks for the replies so far. Again this is a learning process for me and "I don't know what I don't know "... So I will follow your advice and steer my choice to more of a vegetable and boneless meat gyuto and avoid dirtying the handle. I am dead set on a gyuto with Japanese handle, I just need to understand what NOT to use it for. So no more bones, no more crushing garlic. Got it. I'll swap out knives for that. Please keep the suggestions coming given this new info. I'm good with a knife but you are right Chef_ that there will be a learning curve and a high hardness is maybe not for me


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## khashy (Jul 18, 2017)

There was a discussion previously in a thread I cannot find right now about crushing garlic with a gyuto.

Different opinions but some, myself included, belive that if you do it right, crushing garlic is not an issue. It's all about where you place the garlic and where you exert pressure to crush it (obviously these should be away from the edge and as close to the spine as possible). Bones are definitely a no no, use a different knife for that.

Have a look at Watanabe. Read some reviews of it to see if it fits the bill for you. If you do decide to go for it, you can ask Sinichi to make it thinner than he usually does. 

Reading your comments above, I'd just say that if you do buy a carbon blade, you do need to take care of it. I.e. Wipe as you work and wash and dry after. Not hard but you have to be mindful.

I also echo the comments made about handles. Normal ho wood handles are not indestructible, just a little bit of care will go a very long way.

If you do go down this route, you can get a couple of stones andn you are set. A 1000 grit stone and a finisher is all you need for functionality - I'm very biased towards Kitayama as a finisher. Lots of discussion on the forum about 1000 grit stones.


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## Dirt (Jul 18, 2017)

Ikazuchi AS 240 or an extra thin wantanabe seem to fit your bill perfectly


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## chinacats (Jul 18, 2017)

First thing is to lower your budget. Second is to not stress over the antimicrobial thing...it's wood and steel, just keep it clean. Third, it's steel so smash away at the garlic just use proper technique. I'll leave the recomendations to those who prefer stiction to wedging.
Cheers


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## Nemo (Jul 18, 2017)

On that point, if you go with a really thin knife, I wonder whether you will be replacing wedging in onion with stiction in onion? This is obviously technique dependant but is certainly something to consider. Pretty much anything recommended here will wedge a lot less than what you are used to.


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## Chef_ (Jul 18, 2017)

" i dont want to start a knife collection'

i remember saying those words too about 15 knives ago.


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## K813zra (Jul 18, 2017)

I smash Garlic with every J-knife I own...Laser, middleweight, heavyweight it doesn't matter. I mean, don't start slapping your knife off the board or anything weird but with common sense, I don't see the issue. 

As for wedging vs stiction, meh. You can get something in the middle but one will always lean more one way or the other. However, I have thin knives that while they show signs of stiction it is not awful. Pretty much everything sticks to my Ginga but it falls right off if you just flick your wrist or wipe the blade. Not like it is welded there, some knives do that. Also, technique means a lot as others have said. Less stiction if you use a slice or pull cut, in my experience. Push cut potatoes will glue themselves to most of my thin blades.

Honestly, I like the suggestion of the Misono Swedish given above. I could live out my life happily with my 195mm Swed and I have much more "desirable" knives.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 19, 2017)

Hi Phil, considering you are in Canada, i would get a Takeda from Tosho Knife Arts. Just ask them to get you a thin-behind-the-edge Takeda. It is a high heeled blade (not sure if you like it). Apart from that, it is relatively non-reactive, specially with the stainless steel cladding. Just make sure yours is thin behind the edge. No bones around it, though. Get something else for that.

https://www.toshoknifearts.com/coll...s/takeda-nas-blue-super-br-240mm-gyuto-medium


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## daddy yo yo (Jul 19, 2017)

I'd call Jon at JKI and chat with him and listen to what he recommends. However, I would already have smth in mind:
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...oducts/gengetsu-240mm-semi-stainless-wa-gyuto 
or
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...engetsu-240mm-stainless-clad-white-2-wa-gyuto

The handle is still wooden, so take care with juices. I don't know if it makes sense to upgrade to a different wood/handle (ebony is quite dense) or even a handle made of stabilized wood. These could be safer when it comes to liquids/juices...

Jon is a cool guy, his recommendations are spot-on! Trust him, you won't regret it!


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## Triggaaar (Jul 19, 2017)

Benuser said:


> With what you expect from handle and blade, perhaps a medium-weight Western is more suited.


If it's one knife to rule them all, that's what I was thinking - so it clearly has to be more than one knife  Which isn't really a problem given that he already has some, and has the budget for more if needed.



Khorax said:


> So I will follow your advice and steer my choice to more of a vegetable and boneless meat gyuto and avoid dirtying the handle. I am dead set on a gyuto with Japanese handle, I just need to understand what NOT to use it for. So no more bones, no more crushing garlic. Got it. I'll swap out knives for that. Please keep the suggestions coming given this new info. I'm good with a knife but you are right Chef_ that there will be a learning curve and a high hardness is maybe not for me


I don't think there's a problem with high hardness, as long as you're not bashing it about. You've already said you'll use another knife for bones and the like, so no problem.

I realise your budget is just your maximum, and not necessarily what you want to spend. But if you really do anticipate spending even half of it, maybe you could just order a Tokiro DP right now, today, and enjoy it over the next few days and see how robust it is while you keep looking for your grail.


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## Obsidiank (Jul 19, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Unfortunately theres no gyuto i would recommend for slicing anywhere near bones, one wrong brush up against a bone and there goes your blade. the japanese believe in specialized blades for every task, honesuki for chicken butchering, it cant even be used as an all purpose vegetable knife, as using a laser to cut hard squash or corn cobs will cause chipping.
> 
> if you insist on breaking garlic with it I recommend a medium thickness gyuto , with a hardness of about 58-59. No offense but it sounds like there is going to be a learning curve for you, and anything above 60 HRC is not very forgiving of mistakes. I wouldnt steer you anywhere near a laser.



Chef, I have to disagree with a few of your points above. A gyuto may differ from a western knife because of profile, angle, material...but it's not less than. This forum might lean towards Jknives but that that doesn't mean german knives are terrible. Bone is bone whether it's a gyuto or western so of course cracking steel against bone is going to chip it. Doesn't mean you can't debone a chicken with a gyuto, just means you have to be more careful. 

I use a takamura r2 laser for all purpose including hard vegetables and have never chipped it. You can slice without chopping and it works just fine. 

Smashing garlic is just flat metal against a surface and many knives are cladded. When we talk about brittle, its often about the knife edge, not the knife surface. Again, it's technique. If you're using the edge to smash garlic you're doing it wrong. I smash my fist against the flat of the knife against garlic every week. If that shattered the blade, it'll be a much bigger issue.


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## frog13 (Jul 19, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> " i dont want to start a knife collection'
> 
> i remember saying those words too about 15 knives ago.



So, you're saying you still haven't started collecting? LOL! I remember saying I was just going to buy a few "good" knives, 50 or so ago. Then it was a set of stones to sharpen and maybe one natural, ok, maybe two, and a strop and some sprays and balsa and, oh look! More stones!


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## Khorax (Jul 19, 2017)

Thanks for the replies so far. I looked into all the knives suggested so far, which all seem very nice, so thank you for that. The Itinomonn is not available... Goko white looks like a solid knife and seems like a very good and safe bed, forgiving blade as well. Gengetsu also looks like a solid medium build knife, their SS looks easy to maintain and seems to have good reviews. Still looking at Wantanabes.

What do you guys thing of Konosuke HD2 240mm gyuto? I've been eyeing them for a while... they all of a sudden got some in stock yesterday but they are already all gone... however there is still "stock available" for the one with a rosewood handle. I know it's considered a "laser" but with some learning and care i'm confident I could take care of the blade. Any thoughts on that one?


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## khashy (Jul 19, 2017)

Khorax said:


> Thanks for the replies so far. I looked into all the knives suggested so far, which all seem very nice, so thank you for that. The Itinomonn is not available... Goko white looks like a solid knife and seems like a very good and safe bed, forgiving blade as well. Gengetsu also looks like a solid medium build knife, their SS looks easy to maintain and seems to have good reviews. Still looking at Wantanabes.
> 
> What do you guys thing of Konosuke HD2 240mm gyuto? I've been eyeing them for a while... they all of a sudden got some in stock yesterday but they are already all gone... however there is still "stock available" for the one with a rosewood handle. I know it's considered a "laser" but with some learning and care i'm confident I could take care of the blade. Any thoughts on that one?



Search the forum for comparisons between the Kono HD and Gesshin Ginga.


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## Khorax (Jul 19, 2017)

khashy said:


> Search the forum for comparisons between the Kono HD and Gesshin Ginga.


Hmm both of these seem amazing...

I looked at Watanabe more closely and read up on them on the forum... man you can just e-mail the smith directly and pick and choose what you want? That's amazing! Any Watanabe Gyuto owners here want to chime in? Has anyone ever actually ordered a "thinner" one?


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## Khorax (Jul 19, 2017)

I sent an e-mail to Jon from JKI a few days ago but never heard back from him. I know he is a busy man.


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## JBroida (Jul 19, 2017)

Khorax said:


> I sent an e-mail to Jon from JKI a few days ago but never heard back from him. I know he is a busy man.



I've got your email and plan to get back to you today... sorry about that... huge numbers of knives in for sharpening the last 3 days


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## Chef_ (Jul 19, 2017)

Khorax said:


> Thanks for the replies so far. I looked into all the knives suggested so far, which all seem very nice, so thank you for that. The Itinomonn is not available... Goko white looks like a solid knife and seems like a very good and safe bed, forgiving blade as well. Gengetsu also looks like a solid medium build knife, their SS looks easy to maintain and seems to have good reviews. Still looking at Wantanabes.
> 
> What do you guys thing of Konosuke HD2 240mm gyuto? I've been eyeing them for a while... they all of a sudden got some in stock yesterday but they are already all gone... however there is still "stock available" for the one with a rosewood handle. I know it's considered a "laser" but with some learning and care i'm confident I could take care of the blade. Any thoughts on that one?



I cant speak on the HD because i dont have one. Theyre a very sought after knife though, as you can tell, so they must be doing something right. By the time im writing this that HD is probably gone already . I do have the Gesshin Ginga though, it was my first J-knife. It gets pretty sharp and sharpens easily because its so thin, and the edge retention is about the most you could ask out of stainless steel. Anything from JKI is guaranteed quality though.


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## khashy (Jul 19, 2017)

Khorax said:


> Hmm both of these seem amazing...
> 
> I looked at Watanabe more closely and read up on them on the forum... man you can just e-mail the smith directly and pick and choose what you want? That's amazing! Any Watanabe Gyuto owners here want to chime in? Has anyone ever actually ordered a "thinner" one?



I have a Watanabe KU from his pro line that I picked up from BST. It was well used but taken care of when I got it and I can say that it really exceeded my expectations. This was the standard profile and heft and it has no problems moving through anything. 

The only caveat to that is that I do not have to cut a huge amount of tall root vegetables, but things like onions as you mentioned in your original post are non-issues for it.


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## Khorax (Jul 19, 2017)

JBroida said:


> I've got your email and plan to get back to you today... sorry about that... huge numbers of knives in for sharpening the last 3 days



AAHHH!!:bliss: Jon answered! Can't wait for your wisdom, sir.


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## KimBronnum (Jul 19, 2017)

I havn' read all posts so apologies in advance If this is a double post. If you can spend 1000 CAD you should consider buying an Itinomonn semi stainless from JNS as well as a honesuki. I'm sure Jon has a/some stainless honesuki within this budget. That is what I would do. 
- Kim


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## parbaked (Jul 19, 2017)

If you don't want to purchase a honesuki just use your Henckels for butchering...and take Jon's advise on a Gyuto.
Maybe a western handle if you want durable and hygienic?


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## Khorax (Jul 19, 2017)

Itinomonn does look like just a tad above featherweight which would be perfect. Gengetsu I'm also very interested in. 
I will just use my Henckel for butchering as parbaked suggested. Really want a japanese handle, I will just avoid getting chicken juice or anything nasty on it. 
Someone PMed me another suggestion: TOYAMA NOBORIKOI KASUMI, also available at JNS. Seems a bit heftier but don't have much other info on it. They said the profile much resembles the Watanabe gyuto but with possibly better FF.
Once I get info from Jon (which I will take to heart) I will come up with a final top 3 list and run it by you guys. Thanks again for all your help so far. 
Oh wow it seems JNS has a 15% off discount. Interesting...


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## malexthekid (Jul 19, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> I cant speak on the HD because i dont have one. Theyre a very sought after knife though, as you can tell, so they must be doing something right. By the time im writing this that HD is probably gone already . I do have the Gesshin Ginga though, it was my first J-knife. It gets pretty sharp and sharpens easily because its so thin, and the edge retention is about the most you could ask out of stainless steel. Anything from JKI is guaranteed quality though.



Can I just make a minor adjustment... it sharpens easily because of the steel used, at least that is the predominant reason, especially if it is the white 2 version. 

Thin knives can still be dogs to sharpen if the steel is atrocious.


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## StonedEdge (Jul 19, 2017)

Wa handles are just as sanitary as Western handles IMO. My fish slicer and gyuto both have ho wood handles and are constantly covered in fish juice, pork fat, beef blood and other nasty stuff and they haven't been stained nor has anyone gotten sick from eating in my kitchen. 

FWIW I have a 210 Iti Kasumi gyuto and it's definitely not a feather weight, I'd describe it as a light workhorse with a thin (but not lazer thin) grind. Great all-rounder especially considering the low price.


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## JaVa (Jul 19, 2017)

How about Yoshikane SKD or SLD? 

I've had the Semi-SS SKD for a few weeks now and the cutting performance is right up there with the Itinomonn SS Kasumi and Wakui Kasumi which all cut like a laser, but with better food release and more spine. SKD steel seems to be great too. It has a good reputation for edge retention, but I can't comment on that as I haven't used it that much yet to comment on it. F&F is spotless and profile, grind, balance it's all there. It takes an edge like a high class carbon, but the core steel is less reactive and edge retention should be better too. You can get at Epic edge. Remember to mention you are a KKFer. 

The Yoshikane semi-SS SLD black damascus I have never used, but it's a sensationally beautiful knife and should be a great cutter too. It supposed to be closer to SS then carbon.

From Knives and Stones you could also take a peek at the Shinko Kurokumo R2 which is another laser like cutter, but with more weight to it and the Wakui is always a good option too of course which James just started stocking.

... and talking with Jon is always a good idea.


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## KimBronnum (Jul 19, 2017)

Reg. wa handles and stains etc. If you wash with soap and rinse with vineager the handle is clean as well as bacteria free. In addition wa handles can be lightly sanded to remove stains. I can only think of estetics and balance point as reasons to choose a western handle. 
- Kim


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## fatboylim (Jul 19, 2017)

So the IN-STOCK, 240-270 Gyuto with 
1. decent food release, 
2. great cutting performance (no wedging) and 
3. low maintenance (low reactivity); with a good budget to play with. 

This loosely translates to:
1. Convex grind whilst thin behind the edge. 
2. Middle weight for performance without losing food release qualities. 
3. Stainless clad carbon, semi-stainless or full stainless knife. And low maintenance handle. 

From these specs, I would suggest looking at in no particular order:
1. Itinomonn Gyuto with upgraded burnt chestnut handle (sold separately but installed on request). [I have one]. Excellent food release, very good cutting performance but the edge can have a little flex). 
2. Gengetsu semi-stainless [not tried one myself but others can chime in especially Jon] some have said this is the best semi-stainless knife out there. 
3. Fujiwara Denka ideally hand selected [I have one] Excellent cutting performance, middle weight, average food release, low maintenance stainless clad and the Aogami Super core carbon has low reactivity. 
4. Wakui stainless clad white 2. [I don't have one but others can chime in]. By many accounts it is similar to the Itinomonn in balance and performance but using white 2 core steal which gets very sharp. 

Note: these are in stock knives. 

If you can handle a little more maintenance then the full carbon knives would open up more options. I like the Toyama/watanabe myself but it does take a while for the patina to set. And, they have excellent food release and edge strength (less chippy) but cutting friction increases with very large hard produce. 

For me the highest cutting performance and least maintenance knife (that I currently own) is the Fujiwara Denka, but food release is average. There is knifewear in Canada that might be able to sort you out with a good one (there are bad ones out there so best to get a trusted seller to find a good one for you). 

Otherwise for non stock knives, perhaps look at a custom made knife. You will get full rein over your requirements but it may take sometime before it is made and shipped to you.


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## Khorax (Jul 19, 2017)

Thank you for the detailed, logical response.
So far the top contenders are
1. Itinomonn SS. Where is it currently in stock? Can't find it anywhere.
2. Gengetsu looks amazing and I might very well settle for that one, depends on what Jon has to say.
3. Watanabe which seems to fit for what I want to do and won't break the bank. 

Fujiwara is a bit too expensive all things considered...


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## Khorax (Jul 19, 2017)

Thank you for the detailed, logical response.
So far the top contenders are
1. Itinomonn SS. Where is it currently in stock? Can't find it anywhere.
2. Gengetsu looks amazing and I might very well settle for that one, depends on what Jon has to say.
3. Watanabe which seems to fit for what I want to do and won't break the bank. 

Fujiwara is a bit too expensive all things considered...


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## Nemo (Jul 19, 2017)

JaVa said:


> How about Yoshikane SKD or SLD?
> 
> I've had the Semi-SS SKD for a few weeks now and the cutting performance is right up there with the Itinomonn SS Kasumi and Wakui Kasumi which all cut like a laser, but with better food release and more spine. SKD steel seems to be great too. It has a good reputation for edge retention, but I can't comment on that as I haven't used it that much yet to comment on it. F&F is spotless and profile, grind, balance it's all there. It takes an edge like a high class carbon, but the core steel is less reactive and edge retention should be better too. You can get at Epic edge. Remember to mention you are a KKFer.
> 
> ...



+1

I like my Yoshikane SKD. It's got very good food release but still reasonably thin behind the edge. The (semistainless) steel is pretty easy to sharpen and stays that way a fair while. Profile is fairly flat, which I like.

The Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminagashi (that the Shinko Kurokumo is essentially an upgrade of) is a great all rounder. Quite thin behind the edge, but with very good food release given this (it's usually a trade-off between the two to some extent).


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## foody518 (Jul 19, 2017)

Oh... The Itinomonn Kasumi 270 finally sold out... The power of 15% off. 
You can try a BST thread and see if anyone is willing to sell


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## Khorax (Jul 19, 2017)

I don't have enough street cred to use that part of the forum sadly.


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## foody518 (Jul 19, 2017)

Khorax said:


> I don't have enough street cred to use that part of the forum sadly.



Just keep posting posting posting


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## foody518 (Jul 19, 2017)

Er. I think that for want to buy threads there is no minimum postcount


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## Khorax (Jul 19, 2017)

No there is


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## parbaked (Jul 19, 2017)

You should be able to buy on BST, just not post yet.

If I was determined to buy only one knife I'd buy a Misono Swedish Carbon Gyuto 240 or 270...it has a freakin' DRAGON!


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## aboynamedsuita (Jul 19, 2017)

I am in the same City as the OP. We are going to meet up sometime and I am going to bring a number of knives (various types, sizes, handles, etc.) to help


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## K813zra (Jul 19, 2017)

parbaked said:


> You should be able to buy on BST, just not post yet.
> 
> If I was determined to buy only one knife I'd buy a Misono Swedish Carbon Gyuto 240 or 270...it has a freakin' DRAGON!



And it is simply a good daily driver.


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## khashy (Jul 19, 2017)

aboynamedsuita said:


> I am in the same City as the OP. We are going to meet up sometime and I am going to bring a number of knives (various types, sizes, handles, etc.) to help



Are you showing him the Uchigumo? I know it's not a wa handle but jesus that's a stunning knife


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## foody518 (Jul 19, 2017)

aboynamedsuita said:


> I am in the same City as the OP. We are going to meet up sometime and I am going to bring a number of knives (various types, sizes, handles, etc.) to help



Awesome, T


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## Khorax (Jul 19, 2017)

Yes aboynamedsuita is certainly a class act. He contacted me based on my intro thread and offered to just meet up and show me some knives to help steer my decision. The folks on this forum are outstanding... 
Also Jon answered me with great detail and ultimately recommends the gesshin Ginga. Also the Gengetsu and itonomonn.


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## JBroida (Jul 19, 2017)

I'm a sucker for thin things like the ginga... what can I say


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## K813zra (Jul 19, 2017)

JBroida said:


> I'm a sucker for thin things like the ginga... what can I say



I like my Ginga, so your suggestion was spot on for me!


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## Dirt (Jul 20, 2017)

My ginga was an amazing knife ultimately passed onto a friend not a regret but I could definitely go for another.


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## Triggaaar (Jul 20, 2017)

aboynamedsuita said:


> I am in the same City as the OP. We are going to meet up sometime and I am going to bring a number of knives (various types, sizes, handles, etc.) to help


Wow, what a great offer!


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## daddy yo yo (Jul 20, 2017)

I would have guessed Gengetsu but when Jon recommends Ginga, I'd go for that... 

However, I highly recommend meeting aboynamedsuita who offered to try different knives. Trying, seeing, feeling makes alle the difference. You will definitely have a better idea of your requirements afterwards! What a generous offer, chapeau!


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## Khorax (Jul 20, 2017)

Looks like aboynamedsuita is officially coming over for a knife demo at my house today!!:bliss:Free delivery! Must buy produce. 
It did take a bit of convincing my wife: "Honey, I never told you this but I just all of a sudden became irrationally interested in japanese knives and met this total stranger online that is coming over to our house with our kids with lots of knives, that cool?"


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## JaVa (Jul 20, 2017)

Khorax said:


> Looks like aboynamedsuita is officially coming over for a knife demo at my house today!!:bliss:Free delivery! Must buy produce.
> It did take a bit of convincing my wife: "Honey, I never told you this but I just all of a sudden became irrationally interested in japanese knives and met this total stranger online that is coming over to our house with our kids with lots of knives, that cool?"



So cool, but when you put it like that... &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


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## foody518 (Jul 20, 2017)

You are gonna see some amazing knives man


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## DanDan (Jul 20, 2017)

parbaked said:


> You should be able to buy on BST, just not post yet.
> 
> If I was determined to buy only one knife I'd buy a Misono Swedish Carbon Gyuto 240 or 270...it has a freakin' DRAGON!



Bit of a sidetrack, but I really like the flowers (and think I'm one of the few that does). Shame they don't offer it in 240+ 



aboynamedsuita said:


> I am in the same City as the OP. We are going to meet up sometime and I am going to bring a number of knives (various types, sizes, handles, etc.) to help



What an awesome gesture :thumbsup:



JBroida said:


> I'm a sucker for thin things like the ginga... what can I say



I just literally watched your livestream replay and heard you say this was your one and only. I've never tried a thinner knife, but _I think_ it'll be my preference too when I get there. 



Khorax said:


> Looks like aboynamedsuita is officially coming over for a knife demo at my house today!!:bliss:Free delivery! Must buy produce.
> It did take a bit of convincing my wife: "Honey, I never told you this but I just all of a sudden became irrationally interested in japanese knives and met this total stranger online that is coming over to our house with our kids with lots of knives, that cool?"



Haha. After I read your introduction I was looking forward to this thread and I've been following it. I wonder what he's bringing over. Maybe you ought to do a small write-up/comparison of your impressions. It would just be interesting to see the thoughts from someone coming from a Henckels compared to a more experienced user. I think we decided the J-handle is really a non-issue here and it was commented that some woods are more durable than others, but I don't remember seeing anyone say that you can treat the wood if you want to. With that said, I think you'll be convinced to go the Japanese handle route after today.


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## DaveInMesa (Jul 20, 2017)

I have a question for you, Khorax. You mentioned your "pretty crappy Henckels knives", which obviously means you have more than one "crappy Kenckels knife". So, why are you intent on spending serious money, which could easily buy a handful of very good, or a few _extremely _good, knives on just one? From the sound of it, you probably actually need about 4; a gyuto, a petty, a honesuki, and a bread knife (because everyone needs a bread knife, even if they haven't figured that out, yet, and it doesn't need to be Japanese or expensive to be good).

EDIT: Well, I see now that this thread is MUCH longer than I realized, and I haven't read all of it, so my post may no longer be relevant.


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## Khorax (Jul 20, 2017)

DaveInMesa said:


> I have a question for you, Khorax. You mentioned your "pretty crappy Henckels knives", which obviously means you have more than one "crappy Kenckels knife". So, why are you intent on spending serious money, which could easily buy a handful of very good, or a few _extremely _good, knives on just one? From the sound of it, you probably actually need about 4; a gyuto, a petty, a honesuki, and a bread knife (because everyone needs a bread knife, even if they haven't figured that out, yet, and it doesn't need to be Japanese or expensive to be good)



I cook. A lot. With 2 young kids now I need to do so much prep in the kitchen for lunches and such. My wife is a dietitian and has high standards for nutrition with our kids, which means everything is home made almost... and I do most of the cooking. Life is too short to use bad knives. Turns out it's not even henckles I have... it's Beaumark. The labels have been scrubbed off over the years and I hadn't even noticed. I do have an 8 inch Zwilling pro but I don't like the belly, and the steal is soft. I use that knife 99% of the time but don't like the shape and it wedges a lot. Now that I got into sharpening I feel like i'm ready to make the jump to J-knife territory. 

I'll keep my bread knife, and i'll use my zwilling pro to do any butchering and such. 

I don't want to buy a low quality starter gyuto because I know i'll want to upgrade, so i'd rather save the trouble and just get a good one now. I can afford it so why not. I believe in spending money on things that are useful and you use often. A kitchen knife? I use it several times a day, every day. Money well spent in my book.


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## Khorax (Jul 20, 2017)

DanDan said:


> Haha. After I read your introduction I was looking forward to this thread and I've been following it. I wonder what he's bringing over. Maybe you ought to do a small write-up/comparison of your impressions. It would just be interesting to see the thoughts from someone coming from a Henckels compared to a more experienced user.



Sure I can do that. I'll write something up once the demo is completed this evening. I've never held a J-knife in my life, nor a japanese handle. I'll keep posting in this thread... really hoping this brings some closure to my quest for a solid all around "thin" gyuto. Aboynamedsuita confirmed he is coming over tonight... I told him I feel like a kid on christmas eve. Again, this community is outstanding.


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## StonedEdge (Jul 20, 2017)

FWIW you dont even have to spend half of that $1k budget to acquire a verrrry, verrry good quality gyuto. But as you said since you can afford it why not. (Although you will 100% be shopping for additional J knives in the very near future, especially if you really start loving free hand sharpening you'll be wanting to try different steels and geometries, you've been warned! lol)


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## Triggaaar (Jul 20, 2017)

Khorax said:


> Looks like aboynamedsuita is officially coming over for a knife demo at my house today!!:bliss:Free delivery! Must buy produce.
> It did take a bit of convincing my wife: "Honey, I never told you this but I just all of a sudden became irrationally interested in japanese knives and met this total stranger online that is coming over to our house with our kids with lots of knives, that cool?"


In the event that we never hear from you again, how would you like us to remember you?


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## Triggaaar (Jul 20, 2017)

Khorax said:


> Life is too short to use bad knives.


Yes it is. Hopefully that's not how we remember you in the coming days 


> I don't want to buy a low quality starter gyuto because I know i'll want to upgrade, so i'd rather save the trouble and just get a good one now. I can afford it so why not. I believe in spending money on things that are useful and you use often. A kitchen knife? I use it several times a day, every day. Money well spent in my book.


I agree. Although your budget is very high, and spending even a fraction of it on one knife would still get you a really nice one that doesn't need to be upgraded, and you might have more than one nice knife. Fortunately, you're in the extremely fortunate position of being able to demo a collection of knives (I am well je'l') so if you do go for one fancy expensive knife, you've got a great chance of choosing one that you'll like a lot.



StonedEdge said:


> FWIW you dont even have to spend half of that $1k budget to acquire a verrrry, verrry good quality gyuto.


Indeed.


> But as you said since you can afford it why not.


Well if he can afford several, even at that price, then indeed, why not. But if spending that much would mean buying more is difficult, then that would be a reason to spend less (so he can have a collection).


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## Khorax (Jul 20, 2017)

I said my budget was "up to" 1000$cad. I said that initially before I knew about any gyutos you guys have been recommending, remember I am a complete noob. I overestimated the entry price for a high end knife before doing much research. My top pics right now are around the 300$ 400$us mark. But ad a custom handle maybe... some shipping and duties, tax... convert that to CAD so like x1.26...


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## Triggaaar (Jul 20, 2017)

Khorax said:


> I said my budget was "up to" 1000$cad.


Yeah I know it was just the top of the budget - you want something really good.


> My top pics right now are around the 300$ 400$us mark. But ad a custom handle maybe... some shipping and duties, tax... convert that to CAD so like x1.26...


Do you think you'll get one fantastic knife, and that'll be it (except for a new paring knife etc), or do you think you'll have a couple of gyutos (or similar) before long? 

I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of the collection that must be arriving in under 2 hours


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## Nemo (Jul 20, 2017)

TJ, are you taking the Watanabe Honyakii?


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## aboynamedsuita (Jul 20, 2017)

Khorax said:


> Looks like aboynamedsuita is officially coming over for a knife demo at my house today!!:bliss:Free delivery! Must buy produce.
> It did take a bit of convincing my wife: "Honey, I never told you this but I just all of a sudden became irrationally interested in japanese knives and met this total stranger online that is coming over to our house with our kids with lots of knives, that cool?"





Triggaaar said:


> In the event that we never hear from you again, how would you like us to remember you?



We are both still alive lol. I brought some various knives to see handles, lengths, steels, budgets, etc. Oh yea and a kato and shig from the collection :cool2:


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## MontezumaBoy (Jul 20, 2017)

+1


Dirt said:


> My ginga was an amazing knife ultimately passed onto a friend not a regret but I could definitely go for another.



Damn it Dirt! I was just on Jon's site looking at them (in stock again) and reminiscing about the one "I sent away" also to a friend (I still sharpen it for him and he does things too it that are just not nice but he is a "user of knives" not a freak like many of us here).

Now I want one - again ...


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## MontezumaBoy (Jul 20, 2017)

aboynamedsuita said:


> We are both still alive lol. I brought some various knives to see handles, lengths, steels, budgets, etc. Oh yea and a kato and shig from the collection :cool2:



Awesome T - nice of you to be such an awesome enabler ... err I mean "all around gentleman" of course!


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## inzite (Jul 20, 2017)

aboynamedsuita said:


> We are both still alive lol. I brought some various knives to see handles, lengths, steels, budgets, etc. Oh yea and a kato and shig from the collection :cool2:
> View attachment 36424



tanner is my role model!


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## augerpro (Jul 20, 2017)

I've had ALOT knives mentioned here, Tanaka, Shigefusa, Ginga, Itinomonn, Ikazuchi, and others I can't think of. My likes seem pretty close to the OP, except I like 210mm blades. I've finally settled on a Ginrei and Gengetsu. Just excellent knives for me. Now given the OP likes longer blades, *maybe* the Ginga or even Tanaka R2 makes sense. I've had both at 210mm and they were just too light weight, not enough momentum for chopping. That might be different for a longer blade. Also the Ginga is really thin, sort a bit flexible, some may like that, I don't. And it seems pretty delicate, I was always worried about it. Had a near identical Sakai Yusuke that I borrowed to a friend and he folded the edge. 

So for those reasons I suggest moving up to something a bit beefier, either Ginrei or Gengetsu. The Ginrei is just a bit thicker and heavier, not sure how that translates at the longer lengths. Probably Gengetsu would be the *safe* bet for that reason.


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## Triggaaar (Jul 21, 2017)

aboynamedsuita said:


> We are both still alive lol.


Then why are you the only one still able to post?!



> I brought some various knives to see handles, lengths, steels, budgets, etc. Oh yea and a kato and shig from the collection :cool2:
> View attachment 36424


You're a star. I like the photo too.


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## valgard (Jul 21, 2017)

the title made me laugh hard


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## valgard (Jul 21, 2017)

nice meet up T


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## fatboylim (Jul 21, 2017)

Damn awesome meet up. So did you manage to find a favourite?


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## daddy yo yo (Jul 21, 2017)

So, what were the results/findings of the meet-up?


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## JaVa (Jul 21, 2017)

We might never hear from him again? :detective:


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## Khorax (Jul 21, 2017)

I am alive still. Can't confirm or deny if aboynamedsuita is. I'm busy at work today but will def do a write up later today. So many vegetables died yesterday... very graphic.


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## Triggaaar (Jul 21, 2017)

Khorax said:


> I am alive still.


Either that or Khorax was tortured until he gave up his password. If so, he held out for a good number of hours, so fair play to him.



> I'm busy at work today but will def do a write up later today.


Looking forward to it.


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## Khorax (Jul 21, 2017)

Allright, let's do this. If you don't like to read just look at the bottom of this message for the outcome.

First off, a big thank you to aboynamedsuita for taking the time to drive over to my place after work and spend just over 3 hours going over everything with me and letting me go to town on some fruit/veg. Outstanding generosity in sharing his time, knives and knowledge with a commoner like myself. Nobody got murdered, which is always nice.

Full disclosure, I cut my thumb open within the first 5 minutes of our visit and promptly covered it up with the only band-aids we have in the house: Mickey Mouse children band aids that my 2 year old daughter uses. Now that I got that off my chest, let's get on with it. Instead of talking about every knife individually, I'll go about this review differently. Since he didn't have any of the knives on my "maybe list", I essentially went into this telling myself I wanted to come out with a final decision on 3 things: Japanese vs Western Handle, Blade length and laser vs medium blade.

He did not let me cut anything with the Kato, nor the Shigefusa nakiri... but damn they looked amazing. The Kato was a work of art.
I used the following (Left to Right on the picture posted by aboynamedsuita): 
Misono Swedish Carbon steel 300mm 
Takamura HSPS Pro R2 240mm
Tojiro DP 210mm
Moritaka AS 210mm
Misono Swedish Carbon steel Honesuki (didn't cut any chickens, it was just to look at)
Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan ZDP-189 Petty 165mm

1. Western Vs Japanese handle:
I was hell bent on getting a Japanese handle, if you read back through this now very long thread. This was my first time ever holding a knife with Japanese handle. The Moritaka felt good in the hand. It had a D handle. The Petty has an octagon handle. I think I prefer the D. But you know what... hold the others with the western handle felt absolutely fine, and more normal in my hands because I guess I'm just used to it. If i learned anything, is that now I am not completely ruling out having a western handle on whatever knife I pick. So this was a great eye opener. Also, the ZDP Petty was amazing... I peeled a kiwi with it and slide up an orange and removed the fruit from the skin after it was cut in wedges. Damn that thing is a scalpel. But then I asked my wife to try it... and she said she didn't want to get the handle dirty because he hands were full of ginger and oil (she was cooking next to us). It was untreated normal handle (not sure wood)... it looks like it would absorb and stain anything you would put on it. So my wife wouldn't want to use it when pitting/cutting cherries, strawberries, etc because it would likely stain the handle (we do lots of this due to our kids). I think you can treat it with something but it seems to defeat the purpose of avoiding using a knife for a job because you will stain the handle. So in conclusion, maybe a western handle for a petty... japanese handle for gyuto. 

2. Blade Length:
My main objective was to determine if I wanted 240mm or 270mm. I brought out a ruler before aboynamedsuita came over. Well turns out I'm an idiot. I have been using my zwilling pro 8 inch for years now... I've obviously gotten used to it, it feel very normal to me. Now I suck at conversion, and here in Canada we use the metric system, like normal people, so it's hard to know how long 8 inches is. For some unknown reason, I was associating 8 inches to be 240mm, probably because I was told 8 inches is "standard" and 240mm is "standard", and my brain made the connection. Turns out my 8 inch chef knife is actually only 200mm... and here I thought I was using a 240mm. Furthermore, due to the insane belly on the Zwilling (which I had and never really use), my straight working surface for chopping on the blade is more like 150mm. So this alone blew my mind.

First knife I pick up was the Misono 300mm. Petina-ed to crap, mofo dragon on the side... most badass thing I have ever seen (except for the Kato). Whoever said the dragons on the misono were cool in a previous comment, you were right. The knife was surprisingly nimble and light for such a monster. However your hand is so far from the end of the blade that doing work with the tip is not precise. Your elbow is tucked in and sticking out behind your body to get it to land normally on your cutting board. This was awkward. 300mm too long. There was no 270mm blade so next up was the takamura. It felt great. Medium sized blade with some heft. Cutting with it had momentum, weight, and was responsive overall. I have a large working area so the fact the tip is sticking out of my cutting board in not a problem. I liked the weight and length, but precision work like doing tip slicing on the onion, was difficult for me and my hand was wobbling about. I'm sure I could get the hang of it though. Then I picked up the Moritaka 210mm... you know that feeling when you pick up the jug of milk in the fridge but you don't know it's almost empty and are expecting it to be heavy but it's not? Same thing... That thing was light as a feather and took me by surprise. Onto cutting various things (cherry tomatoes, onions, potatoes, green onions, leeks) it was amazing. It seemed to me I had more control, more confidence. The feeling differed from the beefier, thicker, longer 240mm Takamura. I finally understand everyone's comments here that there isn't a "better" blade out there, they just feel different. They both felt great, for different reasons. The satisfying heavy momentum of the Takamura was replaced with a crisper, lighter cutting action of the Moritaka generated more by your hand control than the weight of the knife. 

210mm seemed to be the sweet spot for me. It's almost all a flat profile with any Gyuto so coming from the zwilling with the large belly, I already feel like 210mm is a jump in size considering all the new real estate I can use on the blade, with no compromise to control. The 240 felt long but I could get use to it. Now I am left to wonder 210mm vs 240mm. I only cut one thing at a time, like 1 onion or 1 tomato or 1 carrot. You can do this with a 210mm no problem. I feel like the only time I might ever tell myself "man I wish I had 30 more millimeters" would be either in bed with my wife, or if I'm cutting the occasional watermelon on gigantic piece of boneless meat. 
Conclusion: I had more control using the 210mm and I suck at converting imperial to metric.

3. Laser vs medium gyuto:
I started the thread wanting a laser, then got convinced extra girth isn't bad, as long as the "grind" is good. The most laser knife I had was the Moritaka. The thicker medium knives were the Tojiro DP 210mm and the Takamura. The Tojiro felt sluggish and I really did not connect with it. I'd pick the Moritaka over the tojiro without hesitation. The Takamura cut way better then the Tojiro and I think that is due to the shape of the blade. I also like that it had that extra girth, it felt like the knife was doing the cutting and it felt super solid when you did chop cutting. Push cutting was easy because it's weight helped with momentum and was a satisfying feeling. The Morikata was thin and light. It felt more like an extension of your hand, and required hand pressure and more concentration on hand stability to get a good cut. But man that cut was "crisp" and very responsive. For chop cutting it did a great job, I felt I could go faster and it made me feel like a pro chef... but slamming that thing on the board during chopping triggered a sense of "omg will i break it" because it was so thin and that AS was hard as all hell. Perhaps with more practice I can learn to control it better. But yea, it's weird, I felt more confident with a big burly knife for it's toughness and weight, but not as much control. With the laser I felt more in control but the trade off was a requirement for a higher degree of concentration for precise movements and a dread of chipping or breaking something. So again, everything you guys have been telling me so far is spot on and all starting to make sense. There is no "better", it's just trade offs and different feelings. 
Conclusion: I don't know which I prefer. They were both awesome. 

There you have it. I have learned so much by having the opportunity to get my hands on some knives and put all the comments and tips i've been reading on here to good use. It has shed some light on what I like and don't like and I come out of it smarter.

I think I'm going for Japanese handle for Gyuto.. and probably a western handle petty in the future
210mm is a good fit for me, which I was not expecting. 
Wanting a very thin behind the edge gyuto but maybe not as thin/light/bendy as a Ginga. Turns out I do like a tiny bit of heft.

So I guess my list is now:
1. ITINOMONN STAINLESS KASUMI 210MM WA GYUTO
2. GENGETSU 210MM SEMI-STAINLESS WA-GYUTO

Unless someone has any other recommendations given the above mentioned info.


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## JaVa (Jul 21, 2017)

Great read! :doublethumbsup: 

Seems like somebody had some fun, but we all knew you would. 
...You lucky dog! :cool2:

The itinomonn is still my favourite weapon of choice. I love the thing. IMHO the best all rounder around. Though never used the Gengetsu which is also cherished here and for similar attributes and often in the same conversation with the Itinomonn. many even prefer the gengetsu. I think your on the money with your picks. Either should be a perfect fit.

I want to remind about the Wakui Kasumi/hairline. It's right up there with the Itinomonn and Gengetsu. A lot of similarities, but a hair easier to sharpen and the edge retention isn't quite as good. Maybe it just complicates things for no reason so probably better to go with one of your two top picks. 

...and the western petty is a good idea. My wife likes to use one too.

Itinomonns are probably still OOS for a while and the Gengetsu is well in your budget sooo... :knife:


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## Chef_ (Jul 21, 2017)

Well, Tojiro is a bargain brand, i could have told you that...And also not what i would call medium weight. Same goes for misono. If you gave me an under $100 budget those would be your options. But with $1000 dollars those are far in the rearview. Hate to be the buzzkill, but im a little disappointed he brought those to you for a demo, especially with your budget, as those arent the greatest representation of j-knives.

Kato and shigs are gems but youll be hard pressed to find one. 

But anyway, out of your list, i would go with the Gengetsu. But if you want my advice, if youre a fan of JKI, I would go with Gesshin Kagekiyo .


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## shownomarci (Jul 21, 2017)

The stainless Itinomonn is out of stock at the mo, but the Munetoshi 210 gyuto is on stock and the petty as well. Worth considering. (Might have been suggested already.)
I only have the kasumi Itinomonn 240 gyuto and it's 167gr, whereas the Munetoshi 240 gyuto is 220gr. So one of them is really light and nimble the other one is more robust, but both of them cut like a mofo. 
You're after a 210 gyuto so it will be smaller, lighter and more maneuverable than the 240 but probably big enough for most of the tasks in a home kitchen.
If you want to laser through food but don't want to worry about stains, patina, rust, then go for the Shibata Kotetsu gyuto. That thing will put a grin on your face whilst cutting veg/fruit/meat.
Now you have a real feel of some proper kitchen knives, you can also watch some in action on the youtube for comaprison.


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## foody518 (Jul 21, 2017)

Nice write-up!
Were you okay with the profile of the Tojiro as well as the Moritaka? Imo Moritaka runs fairly flat to the board... Not all 210s will be like that
I'll express confidence that if you get 240 it will not take long to adjust to it


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## aboynamedsuita (Jul 21, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Well, Tojiro is a bargain brand, i could have told you that...And also not what i would call medium weight. Same goes for misono. If you gave me an under $100 budget those would be your options. But with $1000 dollars those are far in the rearview. Hate to be the buzzkill, but im a little disappointed he brought those to you for a demo, especially with your budget, as those arent the greatest representation of j-knives.
> 
> Kato and shigs are gems but youll be hard pressed to find one.
> 
> But anyway, out of your list, i would go with the Gengetsu. But if you want my advice, if youre a fan of JKI, I would go with Gesshin Kagekiyo .



I think you missed the point which was primarily to see what different handles, lengths, etc. feel like. Not sure if I have the knives then OP is after except maybe the Watanabe but in honyaki but that needs the handle installed still


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## Chef_ (Jul 21, 2017)

aboynamedsuita said:


> I think you missed the point which was primarily to see what different handles, lengths, etc. feel like. Not sure if I have the knives then OP is after except maybe the Watanabe but in honyaki but that needs the handle installed still



Oh, my bad, I assumed you would be one of the guys on here with the more prolific knife collection .


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## aboynamedsuita (Jul 21, 2017)

Chef_ said:


> Oh, my bad, I assumed you would be one of the guys on here with the more prolific knife collection .



Well I do have a variety of stuff from cheap to expensive and rare (see my profile it should be current), but it was also discussed earlier in the thread to not utilize the entire budget by a fair amount being a first j-knife and consider something else in the future


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## daddy yo yo (Jul 22, 2017)

I think the meet-up was a great opportunity to see what is out there (a fraction) and what is for you and what isn't. 

As I said before, I'd go Gengetsu!


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## dafox (Jul 22, 2017)

daddy yo yo said:


> I think the meet-up was a great opportunity to see what is out there (a fraction) and what is for you and what isn't.
> 
> As I said before, I'd go Gengetsu!



Which of the versions of the Gengetsu do you prefer?


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## Khorax (Jul 23, 2017)

Thanks again for all the help guys. After more research I'm confident I want both the itonomonn and gengetsu. I will try to get both and see which I prefer, and probably gift the other to a family member. I don't yet have access to the BST for posting a WTB for a few more days.

In the mean time, if anyone, preferably from Canada, has a 210 itonomonn or gengetsu stainless they are willing to part with please PM me.


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## Khorax (Aug 31, 2017)

Quickly wanted to close this thread up. I ended up getting the Itonomonn SS 210mm Gyuto from a member here YG420. A special thanks to him for stellar service and prompt delivery, even reimbursing me a few dollars once he realized shipping was cheaper than expected. He could have kept that money and I would have never known. 

Thank you all for your time and recommendations, this knife is everything I dreamed of and more. Even my wife is using it all the time. I've had for a month now and smile every time I get to chop something up. Thanks everyone!


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## khashy (Aug 31, 2017)

the question is whether this is actually going to be your only J-knife as you had said from the very beginning 



Khorax said:


> Quickly wanted to close this thread up. I ended up getting the Itonomonn SS 210mm Gyuto from a member here YG420. A special thanks to him for stellar service and prompt delivery, even reimbursing me a few dollars once he realized shipping was cheaper than expected. He could have kept that money and I would have never known.
> 
> Thank you all for your time and recommendations, this knife is everything I dreamed of and more. Even my wife is using it all the time. I've had for a month now and smile every time I get to chop something up. Thanks everyone!


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