# Everything about Japanese knives and knife shopping in Japan



## velshin (Oct 5, 2014)

*Summary*
tl;dr aggregate information about Japanese knives and knife shopping in Japan.

Hello Kitchen Knife Forum Friends,

I recently did a lot of research into Japanese knives ahead of a trip to Japan. I used to live there, back before I was serious about knives. Im a chef and rather technical but I know nothing of metallurgy or blacksmithing so take all of this info with a grain of salt. My better half is fluent in Japanese and knows nothing of knives; I know survival Japanese and a bit about knives. We made for an effective shopping pair.

I wanted to give back to these forums because I found all of your discussions and advice invaluable.

On this trip I purchased a Tanaka Yoshikazu (generic) wa gyuto 240mm blue steel 1 (aogami 1):



 

 



I was hoping to buy a Shigefusa or one of the other candidates listed below but was unable to find it at the half dozen shops I visited. Its possible to go to Sakai to buy them but I didnt have time. Everyone we spoke with suggested buying them online, since production of those high quality knives from smaller blacksmiths is limited.

I hadnt found the following on these forums or others: theres no such thing as a Takeda or Shigefusa brand knife. As you probably know, those are the smiths who work the steel and create the blade. Shigefusa is a blacksmith shop, not an individual such as Iizuka Tokifusa or his sons who run the blacksmith. However, smiths often sell a stamped and generic (unmarked) version of their blade that can be branded by the distributor or consumer shop.

There are many parties involved in the creation of a high quality Japanese blade: the ore / steel provider, the blacksmith, the distributor, the handle woodworker, the assembler, possibly another distributor, the sharpener, and the final seller or shop. The distributor, assembler, or shop can brand a blade with their shop name, even if its from a well known smith; the shop Kamata is a good example of this.

If you walk into Japanese shops asking for a Shigefusa knife is not the right approach. Saying specifically that you want aogami 1 steel 240mm gyuto from Shigefusa is a better place to start.

Japans knife industry has the same trust relations between those parties as it did 150 years ago. This is why its not necessary for blacksmiths to create an entire knife end to end; each party in the chain trusts the others and the blades are insured for life.

If youre planning a knife shopping trip to Japan, I highly recommend:
* Kappabashi in Tokyo
* Sakai near Osaka
* Bringing someone fluent in Japanese
* Doing research in advance about what you want, but being flexible

Apologies for the formatting, I had this in a google doc and there seems to be no magic way to convert to this forum.


*Candidates*
wa handle
* Shigefusa &#37325;&#25151; Kasumi 240mm wa gyuto $550 193g?, 50mm?/54mm? height at heel, HRC 64?
* Takeda &#27494;&#30000;&#20995;&#29289; wa gyuto 240mm $330 -- kurouchi / rustic (not quite damascus) style steel, AS super steel or blue steel?, HRC 62-63 (main site)
* Masamoto (Sohonten) &#27491;&#26412;&#32207;&#26412;&#24215; KS Wa-Gyuto 240mm / 9.4 (KS-3124) $345 162g ?, Hitachi White steel HRC 62, 49mm? height at heel
* Nakaya Heiji &#20013;&#23627;&#24179;&#27835; wa gyuto 240mm $550 -- Iwasaki's special Swedish carbon steel (semi stainless??) HRC 62-63?
* Tanaka


? Hattori -- VG-10 steel?
? Kikuichi 
Reminders
Knife must be opened (ground appropriately) before first use (might just be for single bevel?). Ask seller to do this. Itll be obvious if not opened -- the blade will be dull before.
Brands
by price for entry level gyuto


http://www.mtckitchen.com/t-aboutourknifebrands.aspx
Tsukiji Masamoto is not the same as Masamoto Sohonten (original), and the latter (sohonten) is considered the superior brand.


$1000+
Konosuke Blue #2 Honyaki Gyuto 240mm

$500+
Nu batama (note this is all one word but this forum censors it because it sounds like N0000008)
Shigefusa
Heiji
Yoshiaki Fujiwara / Kiyoshi Kato


$400+
Aritsugu
Masamoto Sohonten
Tadatsuna
$300+
Tsukiji Masamoto wa-gyuto 240mm 170g
Takamura
$200+
Kiyotsuna and Ikkaku Donryu are both produced by Shimizu Cutlery
Kikuichi
Konosuke HD2 very popular laser 2.3mm
Sugimoto -- mixed / negative reviews


$150+
Misono
MAC -- MAC Pro, good if you want a western handle, or stainless
Aritsugu A-Style HRC 60 +/- 1 ? semi stainless?
$100+
Sakon (Tosa Cutlery)
Sakai Takayuki
Global
Shun / Kai Corporation
Kaneshige


TODO
Korin
Asai aogami
Nenohi / Haku
Takamura
Kanetsugu
Sabatier
Masahiro
Kasumi
Takeda
Hattori
Kagayaki
Heiji
Masakage




*Types*


gyuto - chefs knife
deba bocho - rounded, fish scaling
usuba &#34180;&#20995; - thin, vegetables, single bevel
nakiri &#33756;&#20999; - thin, vegetables, double bevel
santoku - thin, general purpose / chefs, shorter, may have dimples / divots
kiritsuke - thin, sashimi slicing or vegetable peeling


steel
VG-10 stainless?
white carbon steel
black carbon steel
blue carbon steel
AS Aogami super steel -- not as hard as SG-2?
SG-2 

The steel progression chart. Summary: 
toughness (weaker edge, less brittle) <---> hardness (holds edge, more brittle)
white steel 2 < blue steel 2 < white steel 1 < blue steel 1 < blue super steel





blades and finishing
laser - nickname, extra thin (2mm above heel), has more flex than you might want
honyaki - single material high carbon differentially hardened, super expensive, better edge retention, more difficult to sharpen
warikomi - clad knifes, two materials
kasumi - "mist", two materials: high carbon steel (hagane) and soft iron (jigane)
kitaeji - laminated steel
http://zknives.com/knives/articles/jpnknifecladtypes.shtml
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/jpnktknvterms.shtml#WARIKOKMI

Bevels / Grinds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind
http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63443/bevels-double-bevels-angles-im-confused 


single bevel = chisel bevel ?
chisel - flat on one side, edge on the other
single bevel &#29255;&#20995;&#12391;&#12354;&#12427;
double bevel / compound &#20001;&#20995;&#12391;&#12354;&#12426;


*Where to Buy in Japan*
*Outside Tokyo*
* Sakai Ichimonji -- Sakai, Osaka is the blacksmithing home.
* Isetan
* Kanesoh

*Tokyo*
* Kiya &#26408;&#23627; in Nihonbashi &#26085;&#26412;&#27211;, Chuo-ku Tokyo across the road of Mitsukoshi Department Store.
* http://www.kiya-hamono.co.jp/
* Nihonbashi-Muromachi 2-2-1
* Chuo-Ku Tokyo Coredo-Muromachi. 1F
* &#12306;103-0022
* Tel 03-3241-0110
* 10am - 8pm seven days a week
* Cutlery Kiya
* Nihonbashi-Muromachi 4-6-2
* Chuo-Ku Tokyo Ryouka-Bldg.4F
* &#12306;103-0022
* Tel 03-3241-1141
* Asakusa, Moreihei http://www.morihei.co.jp/english/index.html 
* Ueno?, Kikusue http://www.tokyo-ueno.jp/omise/shopping/50kikusue.html 
* Shibuya, Tokyu Hands (likely just for Global, MAC, and the like)
* ? Miyakoya
* ?? Nihombashi Takashimaya 7F
* ?? Tokyu Toyoko west building 8F

*Tsukiji Jogai*
* Azuma Minamato-no Masahisa &#26481;&#28304;&#27491;&#20037; (&#12354;&#12378;&#12414;&#12415;&#12394;&#12418;&#12392;&#12398;&#12414;&#12373;&#12402;&#12373
* http://www.tsukiji-masahisa.jp/
* &#26481;&#20140;&#37117;&#20013;&#22830;&#21306;&#31689;&#22320;4-13-7 &#12306;104-0045
* * &#36890;&#24120;&#21942;&#26989;&#26085; 5:30&#65374;15:30
* &#24066;&#22580;&#20241;&#24066;&#26085; 9:00&#65374;15:00
* Aritsugu (Tsukiji)&#65288;&#26666;&#65289;&#26377;&#27425;
* 4 Chome-13-6 Tsukiji
* Chuo, Tokyo 104-0045
* Sugimoto
* http://www.sugimoto-hamono.com/ 
* Tsukiji Masamoto

*Asakusa, Kappabashi &#21512;&#32701;&#27211; aka kitchen town*
* Kamata &#12363;&#12414;&#12383; http://www.kap-kam.com/ 
* Some Misono maybe Masamoto but mostly Kamatas own brand.
* Yubinbango 111-0036 Taito-ku, Tokyo 2-12-6 Matsugaya
* Telephone number:03-3841-4205
* HoursMonday to Saturday) 10:00 to 18:00
* 10:30 to 17:30 (Sundays and public holidays)
* &#20303;&#25152;&#65306;&#12306;111-0036 &#26481;&#20140;&#37117;&#21488;&#26481;&#21306;&#26494;&#12364;&#35895;2-12-6
* &#38651;&#35441;&#30058;&#21495;&#65306;03-3841-4205
* &#21942;&#26989;&#26178;&#38291;&#65306;10:00-18:00 (&#26376;&#26332;&#12316;&#22303;&#26332
* 10:30-17:30 (&#26085;&#26332;&#12539;&#31069;&#26085
* Union Commerce
* Mostly western knives but maybe Masamoto.
* Nishi Asakusa 2-22-6, Taito-ku, tel. 03 3845 4040 
* 2&#19969;&#30446;22-6&#35199;&#27973;&#33609;&#37117;&#21488;&#26481;&#21306;&#12289;&#26481;&#20140;&#37117;
* http://www.unioncommerce.co.jp/ 
* Kama-asa ?? &#25152;&#22312;&#22320;
* &#25152;&#22312;&#22320;
* &#12306;111 - 0036 &#26481;&#20140;&#37117;&#21488;&#26481;&#21306;&#26494;&#12364;&#35895; 2 - 24 - 1
* Yubinbango 111 - 0036, Taito-ku, Tokyo Matsugaya 2 - 1 - 24
* TEL 03 - 3841 - 9355
* FAX 03 - 3845 - 4590
* Mon - Sat AM 9:30 ~ PM 17:30
* Sundays and holidays AM 10:00 ~ PM 17:30 
* TDI knife shop (Tokyo Direct Import)
* Mostly Global and lower end brands?
* 1-9-13, Matsugaya,Taito-ku
* Telephone: 03-3844-7561
* Hours:9:30am-5:30pm (Mon to Sat) 10:30am-5:30pm (Sun & Holidays)
* http://www.kwtdi.com/ 
* Ippin Tsubaya &#12388;&#12400;&#23627;&#21253;&#19969;&#24215;&#65288;&#12363;&#12387;&#12401;&#27211;&#36947;&#20855;&#34903;&#65289;
* http://e288.jp/ 
* &#12306;111-0035 &#26481;&#20140;&#37117;&#21488;&#26481;&#21306;&#35199;&#27973;&#33609; 3-7-2
* Yubinbango111-0035 Taito-ku, Tokyo 3-7-2 Nishiasakusa
* 03-3845-2005
* 00: 00-17: 45 days public holidays 9:00 to 17:00 on weekdays 9


*Shibuya*

Yoshizawa Riko &#21513;&#27810;&#21033;&#24037;
&#65288;&#26666;&#65289;&#21513;&#27810;&#21033;&#24037;
&#12306;150-0043 &#26481;&#20140;&#37117;&#28171;&#35895;&#21306;&#36947;&#29572;&#22338;&#65298;&#19969;&#30446;&#65302;&#8722;&#65297;&#65298;
&#36947;&#29572;&#22338;&#12488;&#12525;&#12527;&#12540; 1F




*Gyuto Lengths*
21cm / 8
24cm / 9 ½ 
27cm / 10 


Handles
wa - wood handle, often hexagonal?, ho wood (Japanese magnolia)
yo - grip formed western style handles


*Background info and discussions*


* http://www.cheftalk.com/a/japanese-knives-101
* http://www.cheftalk.com/t/62187/another-help-me-pick-the-best-japanese-knife-thread
* http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...samoto-vs-Shigefusa-Gyuto-Profile-Preferences
* Konosuke Honyaki Aogami #2 240mm Gyuto 
* saltydog https://www.youtube.com/user/Saltydog55252/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid
* lots of photos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/842125-Artisan-Chef-Knives 
* sanmai (laminating technique) http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/articles/steel_collector/japanese_sword.html 
* japanese knife vocabulary http://www.zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/usetype/all/index.shtml 
* more shops in japan http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/913237/ 
* types of steel (blue steel, white steel) https://www.hidatool.com/image/data/pdf/White Steel vs Blue Steel Chart.pdf 
* gyuto comparison (shoot out) http://***********************/2011/01/great-gyuto-shoot-out.html 


*Vocabulary / Japanese*


* gyuto &#29275;&#20992; http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/牛刀 
* &#37628; steel
* carbon steel &#28845;&#32032;&#37628;&#65288;&#12383;&#12435;&#12381;&#12371;&#12358;&#12289
* hagane = full metal ? or just steel ? &#37628;
* Rockwell hardness &#12525;&#12483;&#12463;&#12454;&#12455;&#12523;&#30828;&#12373; (&#12525;&#12483;&#12463;&#12454;&#12455;&#12523;&#12363;&#12383;&#12373 
* open the blade
* single bevel &#29255;&#20995;&#12391;&#12354;&#12427;
* double bevel / compound &#20001;&#20995;&#12391;&#12354;&#12426;


*Purchased*


Shop: Kama-asa in Kappabashi, Tokyo http://www.kama-asa.co.jp/ 
Brand: generic (unbranded, direct from manufacturer)
Blacksmith (&#37723;&#20918: Tanaka, Yoshikazu (&#30000;&#20013; &#32681;&#19968, based in Sakai &#37723;&#20918; &#30000;&#20013; &#32681;&#19968;
Handle: wa (wood) : ?? Ho wood / Buffalo horn ?
Steel: blue steel 1 (aogami 1); laminated (piled)
Type: gyuto (chef knife)
Length: 240mm
Bevel: 50/50
Price: 27500 JPY (~ $250 USD in 2014)


Manufacturer Tsukiji Masamoto
Style Gyuto
Blade Material SK Carbon Steel
Handle Material (H&#333 Japanese Magnolia
HRC 61
Bevel Angle Ratio 50/50
Length 240mm
Weight 6 oz
P


----------



## Anton (Mar 5, 2018)

I was doing some research for an upcoming trip to Tokyo and found this post, useful enough to bump I think, should anyone be on the same boat.


----------



## toddnmd (Mar 6, 2018)

Wow, what a great collection of information! Thanks for taking the time to put it together and sharing it here.
I'm trying to winnow down my collection, at least for now. Perhaps when I move to Japan later this year I'll be studying this thread as I look to start expanding again . . . thanks again for posting!


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Mar 7, 2018)

Great timing. I'm hoping to visit japan for a conference in Kyoto in Dec and plan to visit Sakai Osaka and TF in Tokyo. 
Would love if a Yo handle 210mm Shigefusa Kitaeji would fall in my lap.


----------



## paranoid123 (Mar 11, 2018)

When I visited Japan (Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, and a few other cities) this site was a very good guide for me to find where the stores were clustered around in each city. 

http://yayasyumyums.blogspot.com/2011/08/knife-shops-in-japan-tokyo-kyoto-osaka.html


----------



## Benuser (Mar 12, 2018)

Great write up. Wondering about the said symmetric bevels on both purchases. Those edges better wouldn't used as such, and are only meant to ease further sharpening by the end-customer or retailer.


----------



## velshin (Apr 24, 2018)

Thanks. Glad people are still finding this useful nearly 4 years later! :hungry:

The bevels I listed were basically unsharpened. I use hand sharpened 15 / 20 compound double bevels. 

My Tanaka Yoshikazu (&#30000;&#20013; &#32681;&#19968 blade has held up really well over the years of daily use. The HRC 63 steel holds an edge very well and just requires some extra caution to avoid chips. I originally thought I would have bought a Shigefusa &#37325;&#25151; or similar by now but the Tanaka Yoshikazu has been so good it's not been necessary.


----------



## toufas (Apr 27, 2018)

Where was this 3 weeks ago! I went and I saw few of these places but I was hesitant of getting something that would turn out to be a lemon. 

Managed to snag a Bryan raquin though [emoji33]


----------



## parbaked (Apr 28, 2018)

I visited TF in Tokyo Monday. Picked up a Maboroshi gyuto. Really fun to meet Fujiwara-san and hear his views on what makes a good knife. Well worth the trip.


----------



## parbaked (Apr 28, 2018)

Also visited Kiya shops in Sogo Yokohama and Tokyo Midtown. Both had Kiya branded Shigafusa KU Nakiri in 170mm x 50mm, but overpriced at Yen 40,000+...


----------

