# Softer 500-1k to precede the Rika



## spaceconvoy (Aug 21, 2013)

I love the Rika! It's my absolute favorite stone in terms of sharpening feel, soft but not too soft, muddy but not too muddy... I've had a few 1k, but never been happy with them. Any recommendations for one similar stone to precede the Rika? Could be between 500 and 1k, the feel of the stone is more important than anything else. My only thought was maybe a Sigma Power 1k soft type?


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## CompE (Aug 21, 2013)

What 1Ks have you tried?


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## dmccurtis (Aug 21, 2013)

I'm liking the Arashiyama 1000 right now. It's like a King 1200, but faster and silkier. I've heard good things about Maxim's 800, too. I think I'll be trying it next.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 21, 2013)

Arashiyama 1k, I don't remember it being 'silky' per se. IIRC it raises a bit of gritty mud, but not as much as a King 1k, which is actually my current stone because it's the closest to what I want. But it's still not as muddy as I'd like and of course it's slow. Sigma Power 1k hard type was too hard for me. Red Brick 1k, seemed very similar to the Arashiyama 1k, not quite as muddy as the King, more gritty feeling. Not 1k, but for reference I also had a Naniwa SS 2k - it loaded so quickly it was useless. And a synth blue Aoto, which was too soft and muddy. I'm basically Goldilocks


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## chinacats (Aug 21, 2013)

Have you tried any of the Gesshin stones? Not the muddiest stones but feel very nice. My experience is limited to the splash and go stones of which I have a 600 and 5k. The 600 cuts quickly but feels smoother than it's grit rating...more like 1k'ish.


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## Dusty (Aug 21, 2013)

dmccurtis said:


> I've heard good things about Maxim's 800, too. I think I'll be trying it next.



The jns 800 is a great stone, but it's not very soft. It leaves a fantastic and very even misty finish.


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## dmccurtis (Aug 21, 2013)

spaceconvoy said:


> Arashiyama 1k, I don't remember it being 'silky' per se. IIRC it raises a bit of gritty mud, but not as much as a King 1k, which is actually my current stone because it's the closest to what I want. But it's still not as muddy as I'd like and of course it's slow.



To be clear, I don't actually know that it's the Arashiyama 1000 that I have. It's this stone here: http://item.rakuten.co.jp/kwtdi/imanishi_green1000/. Being green, 1000 grit, and made by Imanishi, I've always assumed it's the Arashiyama, but maybe it's not. In any case, I like it. It's not super fast, but it leaves a pretty even finish that easily transitions to naturals.


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## pleue (Aug 21, 2013)

I love the softness of the blue aoto, but it doesn't cut fast so it's not the greatest stone to start out on. I have the 1k red brick (naniwa not the one cktg sells which I heard is junk) and I am loving it so far. Some mud, cuts fast-ish, not gritty like the bester 700 I was using. Mom has an old king 1200 which I use everytime I go home to sharpen for her and it's also a great stone. Good luck in the search!


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## wsfarrell (Aug 22, 2013)

Dusty said:


> The jns 800 is a great stone, but it's not very soft. It leaves a fantastic and very even misty finish.



What he said. This the best 800-1200 stone I've ever used, and I've used more than a dozen.


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## ThEoRy (Aug 22, 2013)

On what steel and what type of knives?


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## Seb (Aug 22, 2013)

The Sigma soft is a steel-eating monster!! Probably way over my pay-grade as I raise a massive burr simply by waving steel in its general vicinity. I'm not qualified to use this vicious bastard and probably shouldn't even be legal for me to own one!! Not for the faint-hearted. Anyone else own this stone? I've never seen anyone else mention it, I don't think.

Here is Stu's blurb from TFJ:



> Sigma Power ceramic stones are not easily found outside Japan, but that does not mean they do not have an enviable reputation around the world for being something 'above average'.
> 
> Designed for sharpening blades of greater tenacity than standard carbon-steel alloys, they remove metal rapidly while staying exceptionally flat and dish free. As such, they also work exceptionally well on plain steel alloys.
> 
> This #1000 grit stone measures 200x75x25mm and is known as a 'soft' type and is intended for those sharpeners who prefer to 'play in the mud'.


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## Dusty (Aug 22, 2013)

ThEoRy said:


> On what steel and what type of knives?



I've used the jns 800 on a wide variety of steels and knives. It's fast, and gives pretty good feedback for a stone that isn't very soft.

It really kicks ass with carbon single bevels, partly because of the very even finish. Finish-wise, you could think of it as a harder, faster king 800. That said, I think that the edge quality that it leaves is a bit more refined. 

Also, the thirstiest stone I've come across - great case for permasoaking this one.

Sorry for getting off-topic OP.


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## DeepCSweede (Aug 22, 2013)

I use a JNS1000 and am very happy with it. Builds up mud nice and doesn't dish a lot. Stainless clogs it up quickly but it cleans up quickly and will go to town again. I follow it with a Rika 5000 usually depending on the knife or an Ohira Range Suita.


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## Anton (Aug 22, 2013)

I use beston 500, 1200 and then the Rika


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 22, 2013)

Thanks everyone who mentioned the JNS 800 (not off topic at all). I had to look that one up, it's been a while since I've been on the boards. Looks promising, and I should clarify that I don't expect an 800 stone to be _that_ soft, just relatively soft for its grit and make a decent mud - could anyone tell me more about its muddiness? 

dmccurtis, I'm pretty sure that's not an Arashiyama, which is a neutral dark grey, not greenish at all. Sounds like you have something interesting.

Seb, one of the old timers like me who can remember the Sigma Power craze of the late 00's  I always wanted to try the soft version since the hard one I had removed steel like a crazy mofo. Does it load easily? I remember my 1k hard type loading a lot, but that was my first stone, and I realized later that I might not have completely lapped off the hard crusty top layer. Plus, I used it to flatten an A-type petty, so all in all, probably not a fair memory for how much it loads.


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## dmccurtis (Aug 22, 2013)

spaceconvoy said:


> Thanks everyone who mentioned the JNS 800 (not off topic at all). I had to look that one up, it's been a while since I've been on the boards. Looks promising, and I should clarify that I don't expect an 800 stone to be _that_ soft, just relatively soft for its grit and make a decent mud - could anyone tell me more about its muddiness?
> 
> dmccurtis, I'm pretty sure that's not an Arashiyama, which is a neutral dark grey, not greenish at all. Sounds like you have something interesting.



I'm pretty sure you're right. I've always called it an Arashiyama in my head because I couldn't match it to any other stone, but I've always been suspicious, since the size and colour have never matched. Whatever it is, it's my go-to 1000 for single- and broad-bevel knives. It's not as fast as the Chosera 1000 I use for double bevels, but it leaves an even finish that's easier to transition to aoto and further naturals. It wears relatively slowly, but it is a muddy stone, so some dishing comes with the territory. It can be used just splashed, but water retention improves with about a five minute soak. I soaked it overnight once, and it developed some small cracks. Unfortunately, I bought it a long time ago on eBay, so unless I can figure out how to order from that site, I don't know how I would replace it. I have a suspicion that this is the same stone, though: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B1VEL9I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20. Either way, I think I'm going to try Maxim's 800 next, so I look forward to some more opinions on that stone. It sounds like a winner.


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