# Statement on the prices of Xerxes Knives.



## Xerxes (Oct 5, 2020)

Good evening,

in the near past the prices for my knives have been discussed several times in the forum and I have the impression that my prices cause incomprehension and sometimes even anger among many of you. I usually leave personal opinions on my work uncommented. These are your opinions and I have no right to influence them, except through the quality of my work itself.

But now I see myself forced to make a statement in this regard and to correct a few things.

If after this statement you are still of the opinion that my prices are outrageously high, then so be it.

First something fundamental: In the past 6 years (total 11 years self-employed and over 20 years as a knife maker) of my full-time work, there were only two conditions from a financial point of view. Either I had an above-average amount of work (between 70 and 80 hours per week) and enough money to live on, or I had normal working hours (40-50 hours per week) and too little money to live on. That was because my prices were far too cheap in relation to the effort I put into it. I am now a father and have a responsibility to my family and myself. The responsibility of both spending enough time with my family and my son and earning enough money to give my family some financial security. So a few months ago I made a difficult decision. I have decided to calculate my knives exclusively according to the actual working hours and the actual material costs and no longer orientate myself on the prices of other knife makers and the "market price".

I have now developed the following concept in cooperation with my wife and my tax advisor:
I work almost exactly 45 hours a week, never less, sometimes a little more, in consultation with my wife. That equates to about 180 working hours per month. For one month of work I attribute myself a salary of 2,300 euros. In order to get an average salary of 2,300 euros including one month of vacation and two weeks of illness, I have to sell a monthly production for an average of 9,500 euros. The remaining 7,200 euros go towards renting the commercial space, material costs, company insurance, health insurance (in Germany you are obliged to do so, I pay almost 800 euros a month), repair and maintenance of the machines, online presence, PayPal fees, tax advice, bank fees , Reserves for the company, VAT (19%) and income tax (approx. 40%). I write down the actual working time and material costs for each knife and then calculate the sales price as a percentage. So you can see that my prices are not fancy prices and that I do not deserve a golden nose in my work. Of course, you still have the right to be of the opinion that, at 2,300.00 euros, my monthly salary is too high. I personally disagree.

Then there is another point why my knives have a high selling price. I try to achieve the absolute best with every knife in all areas.

The steels I use are many times more complex in terms of processing, machining and finish than "standard combinations" of 1095 and 15N20. I use very time-consuming methods of fire welding, forging and heat treatment in order to get the maximum performance from the materials used. I have a very high standard of fits and surface finish. The same applies to the design, geometry and performance. All in all, my knives are extremely time-consuming in every production step and that inevitably affects the price. 
It would be easy for me to produce twice as many knives a month or even more and sell them much cheaper. But then the knives would not have the quality standard that they have now.

After problems with other shipping service providers, I decided to use DHL Express as my shipping partner to the USA. The shipping costs that I have called up are exactly the prices of DHL Express. For this, the entire shipping and delivery are carried out by one company, the packages are treated with care, the shipping only takes a few days.

With my craftsmanship I guarantee that all the information I have given is true.

And finally one more request. Nobody is forced to think my knives are great. Nobody is forced to think my prices are great. Nobody is forced to buy my knives. But please do me a favor and base your criticism on the above facts.

With best regards, Jannis Scholz


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## BillHanna (Oct 5, 2020)

Thanks for your time and patience.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 5, 2020)

If you only are making 2300 euros a month, then your prices are understandable. I can't wait to get the knife I ordered today from you.


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## tgfencer (Oct 5, 2020)

Hard to argue with that, gotta respect the honesty. Wish I could do the same thing to all the people who complain about the price of organic pork or beef to me.


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## pleue (Oct 5, 2020)

It's totally unnecessary for you to have to do this but I understand why you do. Quick conversion puts this as $32530USD net take home after benefits, with costs still for childcare, rent/mortgage, transportation, food, discretionary spending, surviving, etc. Obviously, there are people who do a lot worse and a ton of folks who do a lot better. I guarantee the folks complaining about the difference between a $600 10th gyuto and a $1000 10th gyuto take home a lot more than that each year. Thanks for doing what you do and educating on top of it.


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## Tristan (Oct 5, 2020)

This post is extremely enlightening. Never complainEd about prices or owned your work to date, but am keen to find out more now.
What else surprises me is the actual difference in where you’re based.
If you operated out of Singapore, the tax structures, costs and insurance would be so different. Very interesting thanks for sharing.


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## Brian Weekley (Oct 5, 2020)

Simple math shows that if you increase your prices by a quarter you can double your monthly income. As an owner of one of your knives I believe that you will sell out your monthly production despite such a price increase. The quality is there. Ignore those who complain ... they would likely complain about the shipping costs if you gave your knives away. You and your family deserve a decent income and the quality of your work warrants a more rewarding price.

Just my .02.


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## WildBoar (Oct 5, 2020)

Nice write-up. Cris Anderson went through a similar presentation a few years ago when people were balking at his prices. If you want to truly make a living as a knifemaker you absolutely cannot compete on price with the community-made Japanese knives.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 5, 2020)

Its detailed testaments like this that show proof of the quality of his work. 2300 euros a month is not a lot, which goes to show how much work and dedication he puts into a few knives, instead of cranking out tons of "good" knives.


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## ian (Oct 5, 2020)

Thanks for the message, Jannis. I’m so glad you came to give your response, even though it shouldn’t have been necessary. Hope to see you around in the future.


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## Barmoley (Oct 5, 2020)

I don't think any explanation is needed. People always complain about something. If these are too expensive, don't buy them. They sell out pretty quickly anyway and that is before direct sales to the US were available. They will sell out even faster now. The quality is there.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 5, 2020)

I remember reading a post earlier today by valdim about his prices. The income on this forum and every forum is pretty broad, alot of complaints on prices are more jealousy than complaints on the product. I know, I collect fine watches and some are way beyond my means.


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## juice (Oct 5, 2020)

Xerxes said:


> If after this statement you are still of the opinion that my prices are outrageously high, then so be it.


I wasn't of that opinion, but I do think the wage you're paying yourself is outrageously low. I mean, I get it, but still...


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## esoo (Oct 5, 2020)

I applaud that you have decided to go into such detail about what makes up the costs of your blades. It is a great primer for many about what goes into the prices of handmade goods for sale.


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## Don Nguyen (Oct 5, 2020)

I don't think enough people understand how much time truly goes into a business like yours. It's absolutely nuts.

Love your work Jannis.


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## JayS20 (Oct 5, 2020)

Barmoley said:


> I don't think any explanation is needed. People always complain about something. If these are too expensive, don't buy them. They sell out pretty quickly anyway and that is before direct sales to the US were available. They will sell out even faster now. The quality is there.


Looking at the other thread I think a statement was needed. There was the same discussion in the German forum. People always try to spend as little money as possible but themselves expect decent wages. There is a general problem with value, appreciation especially in highly capitalistic systems.
His work is fantastic and he deserves to make a living of it.


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## Barashka (Oct 5, 2020)

I applaud your ability to maintain ~45hours a week. Many business owners can't and end up doing nights and weekends and end up burning out.
Ignore the complainers, there are plenty of people who complain about paying shipping on free knives (actual drama a year ago or so) .. they aren't your target audience.
It's a eye-opening that one of the most sought after makers has these kinds of budgets. It might be due time to increase prices .. though means I have to start saving up faster ..


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## Barmoley (Oct 5, 2020)

JayS20 said:


> Looking at the other thread I think a statement was needed. There was the same discussion in the German forum. People always try to spend as little money as possible but themselves expect decent wages. There is a general problem with value, appreciation especially in highly capitalistic systems.
> His work is fantastic and he deserves to make a living of it.


It is certainly very nice of Jannis to describe his pricing. I just very much dislike that he felt like he had to. No maker should need to explain his pricing and especially not someone who does the quality of work that Jannis puts out. Forums are like this, people complain, we need something to talk about.... As long as he sells all he makes in the time that is reasonable for him, his prices are correct. I might not be able to buy one or chose not to, but that doesn't mean an explanation is needed. Some people feel like they are entitled to have or be able to buy anything they want...


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## ModRQC (Oct 5, 2020)

It takes me two hours to sand a knife to an acceptable mirror polish. I could have better tools and spend less time - but then these tools need paying for and maintenance. Your structure is also sound. As pointed out you could pay yourself a better salary. Please feel free of charging what it’s worth. Goes to any knifemaker that can - I mean the final product sell or it doesn’t...


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## DevinT (Oct 5, 2020)

The multibar damascus blade is next level stuff, awesome job!

Hoss


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## ian (Oct 5, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> It takes me two hours to sand a knife to an acceptable mirror polish.



You are a freakin speed demon!


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## juice (Oct 5, 2020)

Barmoley said:


> As long as he sells all he makes in the time that is reasonable for him, his prices are correct.


Or (potentially) too low, if they're selling out quickly. Selling them for less than he can get is certainly his right, of course.


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## JDC (Oct 5, 2020)

As you can see a lot of people here don't have any problems with the pricing. In fact they may not agree with the "angry" ones, and even the "angry" ones may not really mean that. 

About the pricing, it works then it works. But for the US market, I think a passaround would be a good idea, maybe the next forum fav unicorn will be born...


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## Midsummer (Oct 5, 2020)

I have one of your primus 1 gyoto's and a one of a kind gyoto. I love your work. It is clear the effort you put into a knife! I have know your new knives will be wonderful to own. 

May Peace be with you and best to your family!!!


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## Matt Zilliox (Oct 5, 2020)

if you sell your knives, they are not too high in price. the end. anyone complaining is just complaining


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## timebard (Oct 6, 2020)

To be honest, the number of western custom makers who are perpetually sold out, new drops sell out in minutes, etc baffles me--it seems like a clear signal that the market will support higher prices for top-end craftsmanship. I get that new/progressing makers may need to sell below-market in order to establish themselves but at a certain point, it appears that many are consistently leaving meaningful amounts of money on the table. 

I doubt I'll ever drop 4 figures on a knife--I'm too damn cheap--but I'll never say that a maker is in the wrong to charge that much if they have eager customers.


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

It’s kinda sad that Jannis felt he had to do this, but I think it’s great he did. I personally love transparency and honesty. Too many businesses are manipulating and misleading customers wherever and whenever they can, just to make money off them.

If people are mad, I think most of the time they’re mad because they’re priced out. I get that. I’m mostly priced out of Jannis’ knives as well, as I have a strict self-imposed limit per knife. But that’s ok. I move on. The market should make the price. If Jannis can one day charge what Bob Kramer can, I’m all for it. Kramer has a knife listed for sale at 50k, and if anyone can explain to me how that is of superior craftsmanship than the 4K one Jannis put out in his latest batch, I’m all ears...


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## juice (Oct 6, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Kramer has a knife listed for sale at 50k, and if anyone can explain to me how that is of superior craftsmanship than the 4K one Jannis put out in his latest batch, I’m all ears...


This is like asking why the Mona Lisa is worth more than another excellent painting. The $50K Kramer isn't about utility, it's about the CM factor.


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

juice said:


> This is like asking why the Mona Lisa is worth more than another excellent painting. The $50K Kramer isn't about utility, it's about the CM factor.



what do you mean by CM? Celebrity maker? Then I agree.

CraftManship? Then I don’t ...

never was about utility, discussing utility in 50k or even 4K knives is silly. They don’t perform better than a 600$ knife or maybe even $200 one ..


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## lechef (Oct 6, 2020)

Great statement, I salute you, both about the pricing and the working hours. 

My Chef at my job is saying the same, he has implemented a similar system where I work. He basically gave the owners an ultimatum. "What if tomorrow we all went on a strike until we are treated properly?"
It´s a part of a change that we ourselves has to force on the industry. Of course it´s a complex topic, but just because Chefs don´t mind working 50-100 hours a week doesn´t mean we shound´t value our time and skill/experience, and secure a good living for the time put in. If you see all the money in other industries you would think it´s time for us to take a bigger piece of the cake too.
In this regard Germany has come a long way I feel, not sure about the US, but at least in comparison with the rest of Europe, apart from Scandinavia.


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

lechef said:


> In this regard Germany has come a long way I feel, not sure about the US, but at least in comparison with the rest of Europe, apart from Scandinavia.



Salaries in Germany are surprisingly low given the strength of its economy. Furthermore, it has one of the largest low wage sectors in Europe and salaries have risen slower than in the rest of the EU since about 1990 (coinciding with the reunification - the east still lags the west when it comes to salaries)


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## Dhoff (Oct 6, 2020)

Thank you for posting this information wise. It should not have been necessary on the personal level imo.

The costs associated with knife making is way higher than I had ever imagined.

Could be interesting with a more "budget line" where some of the easier steels are used from my point of view. The important thing for me is functionality. I personally do not care about the polish as long as there is no sharp spine, choil etc im fine with it looking any way... It will when I thin it some day anyway 

I'd pay just for great HT and grind etc.


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

Dhoff said:


> Thank you for posting this information wise. It should not have been necessary on the personal level imo.
> 
> The costs associated with knife making is way higher than I had ever imagined.
> 
> ...



Jannis used to have a “Budget” line that was great, especially the one with the hollow grind. You were even able to customize it somewhat (wood, ferrule, forced patina, grind: laser, user friendly, wh)... unfortunately he doesn’t make it anymore. I think it was too much administrative work, bordering on full custom knives, for the price ...


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## Dhoff (Oct 6, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Jannis used to have a “Budget” line that was great, especially the one with the hollow grind. You were even able to customize it somewhat (wood, ferrule, forced patina, grind: laser, user friendly, wh)... unfortunately he doesn’t make it anymore. I think it was too much administrative work, bordering on full custom knives, for the price ...



Well, take out the option for customization, or maybe keep it to light wood/dark wood.

I'm guessing here, but Jannis seems to take pride in his knives being some of the absolutely best he can as a whole package. This is fair enough, and I wish him all the best.


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## ModRQC (Oct 6, 2020)

ian said:


> You are a freakin speed demon!



Are you a journalist?


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## M1k3 (Oct 6, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Are you a journalist?


Full time hand powered overgrinder, part time math professor.


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Are you a journalist?


What’s wrong with journalists?
Wait, please don’t answer if you get your “news” from Facebook


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

Dhoff said:


> Well, take out the option for customization, or maybe keep it to light wood/dark wood.
> 
> I'm guessing here, but Jannis seems to take pride in his knives being some of the absolutely best he can as a whole package. This is fair enough, and I wish him all the best.



i think the admin work could be minimized by a simple order form (drop down) on his website. No options for free text input. You just chose from one of the three grinds, 5 (for example) handle woods, 2 ferrules and that’s it. You check out (pay a deposit) and when the knife is done you get a notification to pay the rest ...


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## lechef (Oct 6, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Salaries in Germany are surprisingly low given the strength of its economy. Furthermore, it has one of the largest low wage sectors in Europe and salaries have risen slower than in the rest of the EU since about 1990 (coinciding with the reunification - the east still lags the west when it comes to salaries)



That might be, but the cost of living here is quite low in my experience. But I´m a solo male in the 20´s so guess I have it well... This country is a kind of a paradox, so many strong industries, but the government seems unable to use that in a way to benefits its people. I´ve lived in Berlin and East Germany for some years, for example seeing the police and ambulance use cars that must be from the 80´s when they have some of the largest car companies in the world it´s kind of strange.


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## HSC /// Knives (Oct 6, 2020)

Well written and well said. 

interestingly enough I’m at this point - “I had an above-average amount of work (between 70 and 80 hours per week) and enough money to live on,”

time for some reflection on my part

Harbeer


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

lechef said:


> That might be, but the cost of living here is quite low in my experience. But I´m a solo male in the 20´s so guess I have it well... This country is a kind of a paradox, so many strong industries, but the government seems unable to use that in a way to benefits its people. I´ve lived in Berlin and East Germany for some years, for example seeing the police and ambulance use cars that must be from the 80´s when they have some of the largest car companies in the world it´s kind of strange.



i’m German as well, I know what you mean .... 

the real ugly truth is that while Germany has a strong economy, the citizens are on average (net worth) poorer than people in Spain and Italy, for example. The other travesty is the German social security system (Rente), where the highest possible payout is lower than the AVERAGE payout for a state employee (Beamter)... that’s a long-term recipe for disaster. And last but not least: since this year Germany is also the number one country in the OECD when it comes to the combination of taxes and social security deductions as % of your pre-tax salary....


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## Elliot (Oct 6, 2020)

I am fortunate to have a knife of yours and can attest to its quality for those unsure. 
Cheers for laying it all out there. I will surely have another knife from you in the future -- no doubt in my mind.


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## Bert2368 (Oct 6, 2020)

A long time ago, I worked managing properties for the kind of people who had the money to buy them but not the time or interest to mannage them.

There was a rather nice building with 36 units. Owner directed that rents be raised. Some people moved, the units re rented immediately. Owner directed that rents be raised again. Same thing happened (it was a nice building, large apartments in a nice part of town).

When I was instructed to raise rents third time around in two years, I asked owner if he was not afraid of having some empty units? He smiled and told me he was going to keep doing this UNTILL he had at least one vacant unit. The several rent increases plus the savings in wear and tear, utilities and other directly occupation related expenses from a vacancy far more than offset the loss of a units rent, the vacant unit could be remodeled and offered at an even higher rent after a month or two of down time... After 14 years of such procedures every unit had been remodeled and the owner cashed the place in, selling it to a condo developer for over 3X original buying price then RETIRED. He could probably afford a few nice knives too.

Raise your prices on knives until they don't all sell as fast as you can finish them to your standards. Don't drop your standards OR your prices when that happens, use the availability of such "stock on hand" to spend more time with your family or take the time per knife to do even finer work- Or both.


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## LostHighway (Oct 6, 2020)

Since my post in the "Xerxes officially selling to the the USA" thread may have been one of the ones that prompted Jannis to post this. I feel a bit of explanation is due. I wrote, _"At those prices my interest is nil, too many excellent makers_ _selling at a third the cost." _This statement is factually accurate but contains no overt or implicit judgement as the the quality or value of Xerxes knives. I'm not his target audience. Knives to me are tools to use that also have some aesthetic or craftsmanship value. For my purposes the extreme upper limit of what I might consider spending on a single knife is maybe $650, above that, *for me*, it would become a fetish object that sits in a box unused, especially if it had a difficult to maintain damascus surface. Other people are obviously free to make other choices.
I'm truly very happy to see people who actually make things or otherwise contribute, such as artists, musicians, knife makers, chefs, film makers, writers, or teachers, mechanics, nurses, farmers, etc. make a decent income as opposed to rentier capitalists. Most of the artists, musicians, bicycle frame makers, car restorers, etc. of my acquaintance do not make a particularly impressive income but they do it anyway because it is what they are passionate about. Quite a few of them have tolerant spouses who contribute more than 50% of the aggregate household income.
The only totally surprising element for me in what Jannis posted was his healthcare costs. Speaking from a country with among the worst performance per dollar healthcare I always expect costs in other countries to be far lower.


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 6, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> what do you mean by CM? Celebrity maker? Then I agree.
> 
> CraftManship? Then I don’t ...
> 
> never was about utility, discussing utility in 50k or even 4K knives is silly. They don’t perform better than a 600$ knife or maybe even $200 one ..


CM=>Chelsea Miller aka Queen of IG rasp murderers


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 6, 2020)

Personally, I love fetish objects.


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> Since my post in the "Xerxes officially selling to the the USA" thread may have been one of the ones that prompted Jannis to post this. I feel a bit of explanation is due. I wrote, _"At those prices my interest is nil, too many excellent makers_ _selling at a third the cost." _This statement is factually accurate but contains no overt or implicit judgement as the the quality or value of Xerxes knives. I'm not his target audience. Knives to me are tools to use that also have some aesthetic or craftsmanship value. For my purposes the extreme upper limit of what I might consider spending on a single knife is maybe $650, above that, *for me*, it would become a fetish object that sits in a box unused, especially if it had a difficult to maintain damascus surface. Other people are obviously free to make other choices.
> I'm truly very happy to see people who actually make things or otherwise contribute, such as artists, musicians, knife makers, chefs, film makers, writers, or teachers, mechanics, nurses, farmers, etc. make a decent income as opposed to rentier capitalists. Most of the artists, musicians, bicycle frame makers, car restorers, etc. of my acquaintance do not make a particularly impressive income but they do it anyway because it is what they are passionate about. Quite a few of them have tolerant spouses who contribute more than 50% of the aggregate household income.
> The only totally surprising element for me in what Jannis posted was his healthcare costs. Speaking from a country with among the worst performance per dollar healthcare I always expect costs in other countries to be far lower.



regarding the healthcare: Jannis is self employed, so he has to cover all the cost. If you’re employed the employer has to cover half. So for most people the cost is much lower and it’s also capped. Usually it’s a percentage of your gross salary, but only up to a certain threshold.

Jannis is either voluntarily insured in the state insurance or privately insured, either one is more expensive than being insured as an employee, and if it’s a private one you can add a plethora of options akin to the extras in a car that drive up the price. The price he mentions might also include coverage for his child.


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## josemartinlopez (Oct 6, 2020)

Thank you very much for this. I appreciate this background I am still understand the workmanship that goes into the knives. I would not mind even more detail, understanding why there is more work that goes into one knife than another, because I am still learning. Sometimes, very good makers make things look so effortless, so we need to be educated on the work involved!


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## Matus (Oct 6, 2020)

@LostHighway - Good quality healthcare is not cheap, but it does not mean that each expensive one is. As with many other things. 

I would very much prefer to see CM popping up less as a point of reference of some kind. I am considering deleting all posts that mention her outside Off Topic subforum.


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Personally, I love fetish objects.



what would a world without them be? A desolate desert ...


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

Matus said:


> @LostHighway - Good quality healthcare is not cheap, but it does not mean that each expensive one is. As with many other things.
> 
> I would very much prefer to see CM popping up less as a point of reference of some kind. I am considering deleting all posts that mention her outside Off Topic subforum.



i don’t get the jokes.... yeah, the knives are not our cup of tea but hats off to her for making it in a male dominated industry. She’s actually a very nice person (and I’m not talking about physical aspects here)... I chatted with her a couple of times ago, some for the orchard steel maker (name beats me right now) when I was looking for a knife made in NYC (and didn’t wanna go with Cut Brooklyn)


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 6, 2020)

HSC /// Knives said:


> Well written and well said.
> 
> interestingly enough I’m at this point - “I had an above-average amount of work (between 70 and 80 hours per week) and enough money to live on,”
> 
> ...


Trey @Comet went through this process 6 months ago and couldn't make the numbers work that would allow him to raise his young family with a degree of financial security that made sense to him. The knife community is poorer as a result of him stepping away. Carter decided, many years ago, to take a different route which allowed him to grow his business. Jannis should be commended for starting this thread as most if us I think are ignorant of the costs involved in singlehandedly creating works of art in knife form, a process that can take decades to master.


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## WildBoar (Oct 6, 2020)

Being the sole employee/ maker is not an easy way to ensure the long-term ability to produce knives. Looking back over the years, many solo makers have had injuries or health issues that essentially took them our of commission for 6+ months. Carter and Kramer definitely have the right idea -- get a shop full of people learning/ working for you. Of course this takes many years to develop, but it is an investment in the future. And you have to deal with all the baggage that goes along with having employees. But going solo means you will likely have an extended period or two of no income over your time as a maker.


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

I think it is very, VERY difficult to not only make a decent living as a maker but also make it a career that you can keep up for a long time, as your only profession (no side hustles)...

I’d say: you better have a spouse with a stable income in a somewhat secure position so your income isn’t (always) needed to put food on the table and keep a roof over your head ...


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## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> CM=>Chelsea Miller aka Queen of IG rasp murderers


CM is everywhere - strikes like a cobra in any thread


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## timebard (Oct 6, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> CM is everywhere - strikes like a cobra in any thread



At this point we're just beating a dead horse rasp...


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## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

Jannis shared a level of detail and private information that he clearly did not have to

It shows how much he cares about his craft and customers, and this community as well

to me, it highlights the responsibility that comes sometimes in forums like this

I have not tried Xerses, but have only heard good things about it, and it has been recommended to me - I am hoping to play with a few as a pass around

some people complain about the prices of a knife on this forum (I am guilty of that, I ridiculed the mazascus price of 1,400), and others (more power to them, happily drop 3,800 on an Ashi Honyaki)

both are valid, and supply demand drives these things.

just because I spent over 1K on my 270 Shig Kitaeji does make me a fetish guy, nor does it make the maker a commercial rapist

these knives were selling for 500 a knife 7 years ago

our demand has driven the prices of these knives up, and if jannis can charge more for his work, I salute him. He knows his customer and they are willing to pay for his commitment to quality


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## Matus (Oct 6, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> i don’t get the jokes....



Exactly. We may have a very strong opinion about her knives and business strategy, but see her being ridiculed in every other thread (plus the thread gets derailed very often) is really not necessary and I can not help but think that it is also not too pleasant to the female part of KKF. If CM were a dude, he would get a different treatment (maybe not less harsh, but different) and much less exposure.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 6, 2020)

I've been here longer than most and don't get the jokes either.


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## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

I, along with other people like she is a woman in a male dominated world. We applaud and are happy to see that

but the rasps.....


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

What’s better? A CM knife in your kitchen or a CJA on order?

too soon?


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## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

Ouch


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## tchan001 (Oct 6, 2020)

If a guy tried to sell you a stock removal horse rasp file knife without heat treatment for $800, would you give him the time of day?


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 6, 2020)

Matus said:


> Exactly. We may have a very strong opinion about her knives and business strategy, but see her being ridiculed in every other thread (plus the thread gets derailed very often) is really not necessary and I can not help but think that it is also not too pleasant to the female part of KKF. If CM were a dude, he would get a different treatment (maybe not less harsh, but different) and much less exposure.


No one is blagging on her for being female. Plenty of female makers I applaud (Any women knifemakers killing it?). Its the OTT cringeworthy marketing and starting point of her product that grinds gears.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> If a guy tried to sell you a stock removal horse rasp file knife without heat treatment for $800, would you give him the time of day?



all this proves is that guys don’t “think” with their Heads when it comes to dealing with women!

i mean, come on... who here hasn’t bought a piece of clothing that was way too big or too small just because the pretty sales girl told you that you look great in it ?!

at my old job (in manufacturing) we had one sales rep among 400 reps, she made an absolute killing and she’d openly admit that all she needed to do is have no clue about the Product paired with the right length (or lock off) skirt and high heels.

she also said we’re all suckers. And I’m afraid she was right lol


----------



## pete84 (Oct 6, 2020)

As an American, every time I hear about European regulations and tax laws it is shocking. They make things a very unfriendly environment for startups and small businesses with incredibly high barriers to entry. This can be de-incentivizing, even demoralizing for creatives, innovators and entrepreneurs who have amazing crafted products to offer.

BTW, I love my Primus 2 gyuto


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

pete84 said:


> As an American, every time I hear about European regulations and tax laws it is shocking. They make things a very unfriendly environment for startups and small businesses with incredibly high barriers to entry. This can be de-incentivizing, even demoralizing for creatives, innovators and entrepreneurs who have amazing crafted products to offer.
> 
> BTW, I love my Primus 2 gyuto



depends which country. Sweden is more business friendly (more open market society) than the US, for example.... yet quite a few people in the US think it’s a socialist country


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 6, 2020)

pete84 said:


> As an American, every time I hear about European regulations and tax laws it is shocking. They make things a very unfriendly environment for startups and small businesses with incredibly high barriers to entry. This can be de-incentivizing, even demoralizing for creatives, innovators and entrepreneurs who have amazing crafted products to offer.
> 
> BTW, I love my Primus 2 gyuto


Someone has to pay for their free education and universal healthcare.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Someone has to pay for their free education and universal healthcare.



the highest tax rate I ever had was in the states...


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

So true, I am an American, living in Switzerland (tiny country), taxes are 20 percent max, and I pay health insurance, with no deductible- 100 percent is covered - broke my toe, went to emergency room, got x-rayed, etc. went home with no bill. Nothing for my pain killer pills, nothing for x-ray, etc. 

in the 9 years I have been here, not a single medical bill. We have to pay insurance. But I the US, I payed insurance, but god forbid for I got injured - big deductible, and then my insurance payments would go up.

I never had an accident in 20’years of driving in US - some car damaged (rear ended) my car at a red light. Insurance premiums went up

But there are other trade-offs as well. I don’t get some benefits is CH

I can’t go to tractor pulls in Switzerland


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## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> I can’t go to tractor pulls in Switzerland





Schweizer Tractor Pulling Vereinigung



you’re welcome


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

you are cracking me up! LOL


----------



## valdim (Oct 6, 2020)

Good evening.
I also apreciate the openness of Jannis. Nobody is obliged to make such a deep vertical cut of his business, including personal details. Respect for that.
I commented in the other thread that I am angry. Yes, I am. I still am. But this has nothing to do with Jannis craftmanship and his business.
I am angry with frustration that my government fuc*ed up my country's present and as a result I dont feel as an average european, with a decent income to afford the great craftmanship of this German knife-maker.
You saw Jannis salary. It is fair and I am sure he deserves it and even more. The *average* gross salary in Bulgaria at the moment is appr. 670 euro. Deduct 10-20% for taxes (direct and if indirect are added the % becomes significant)... Corruption, lack of suprimacy of law...
I blame my government for that.

Good luck Jannis.

Edit: Sorry to comment some political issues. But inevitable.


----------



## RDalman (Oct 6, 2020)

Interesting thread! And kudos to Jannis and his awesome work. Some swedish approximate numbers in case of interest. 
Pose I sell for 50k sek ex vat one month
"Social fees" 29% ~ 9,7k
Other expenses (pension etc) ~10k
"Pay" before tax : 30k
After tax ~21k which is a ~upper end medium level income. 
If I want vacation I need to work that in, and stay ahead of potential illness also to some degree obviously. I have fairly low expenses luckily so I'm managing pretty good most of the time. Absolutely agree oneself is the only one protecting your own worth/price. And getting the pay equate to working hours is indeed a difficult equation we as makers choose different solutions on.


----------



## juice (Oct 6, 2020)

Matus said:


> I would very much prefer to see CM popping up less as a point of reference of some kind. I am considering deleting all posts that mention her outside Off Topic subforum.






Matus said:


> Exactly. We may have a very strong opinion about her knives and business strategy, but see her being ridiculed in every other thread (plus the thread gets derailed very often) is really not necessary


You know that means every second thread, right? Which isn't even vaguely close to anything approaching reality. Absolutely made-up issue.



> and I can not help but think that it is also not too pleasant to the female part of KKF.


Excellent mansplaining.



> If CM were a dude, he would get a different treatment (maybe not less harsh, but different) and much less exposure.


And? She's the one who puts up the glamour shots in full makeup looking down blades and so on. What's your point here? EVERY maker/retailer gets "different treatment" because it's based on the way they behave/represent themselves.



alterwisser said:


> i mean, come on... who here hasn’t bought a piece of clothing that was way too big or too small just because the pretty sales girl told you that you look great in it ?!


Me. HTH.


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 6, 2020)

"You no like price? Maybe you no buy."- CM probably


----------



## spaceconvoy (Oct 6, 2020)

juice said:


> She's the one who puts up the glamour shots in full makeup looking down blades and so on.







She's not the only one... though we do make fun of Murray when his knives come up in conversation. The difference is that people mention CM incredibly often and with zero context, seemingly for no reason other than she happens to be on their mind


----------



## juice (Oct 6, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> She's not the only one... though we do make fun of Murray when his knives come up in conversation.


Well, that's why I said:


juice said:


> EVERY maker/retailer gets "different treatment" because it's based on the way they behave/represent themselves.





spaceconvoy said:


> The difference is that people mention CM incredibly often and with zero context, seemingly for no reason other than she happens to be on their mind


She's made herself into a meme because that's what works for her marketing/image/business is a vastly more likely explanation.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 6, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> The difference is that people mention CM incredibly often


Well she's an extreme example. You only have to peruse her IG posts. As they say, sex sells, and if you choose that route anticipate some friendly ridicule........ and no I don't want to buy a MC either








Chelsea Miller | Knives | Entertaining | Design | Events | Host (@chelseamillerknives) • Instagram photos and videos


33K Followers, 7,610 Following, 1,096 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Chelsea Miller | Knives | Entertaining | Design | Events | Host (@chelseamillerknives)




www.instagram.com


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

RDalman said:


> Interesting thread! And kudos to Jannis and his awesome work. Some swedish approximate numbers in case of interest.
> Pose I sell for 50k sek ex vat one month
> "Social fees" 29% ~ 9,7k
> Other expenses (pension etc) ~10k
> ...



you have low expenses because you live in a cave in the woods behind Gävle and Sandviken.... and you have a high income because you’re selling re-labeled Chinese mass produced knives ... it’s time to admit it, Mr Dalman


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 6, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> View attachment 97571
> 
> She's not the only one... though we do make fun of Murray when his knives come up in conversation. The difference is that people mention CM incredibly often and with zero context, seemingly for no reason other than she happens to be on their mind


How many informative knife videos has CM put out? How many apprentices has she had? She's not even selling whole sharpening systems either.


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

I applaud her. If you could sell horse rasps as steel and sell 800 knives, you would.

she is on TV and she sells to 3 Michelin star restaurants - where they order her raspy knives to Richie riches who spend 1,000 on a meal.

it makes steel nerds on this forum go berserk, but think about how low her material costs are - horse rasps from farm - and her price point. She has a high margin business, and I applaud her. she is minting money and that’s why she says nothing and smiles to the bank - Go CM

sure she wears glamour lipstick, but so what


----------



## juice (Oct 6, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> If you could sell horse rasps as steel and sell 800 knives, you would.


As can be seen in this very thread, not every maker is driven simply by the dollar, as you say there, so...


----------



## Matus (Oct 6, 2020)

Matus said:


> (plus the thread gets derailed very often) ...



I have not expected such an overwhelming proof of my point and would like to thank to everyone for their time and effort.


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

Yup - hats off to Xerses, craft before commerce.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 6, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> Yup - hats off to Xerses, craft before commerce.


Xerxes too


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

darn it!


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> Yup - hats off to Xerses, craft before commerce.



Wait until you see Jannis in hot pants and high heels!!!


----------



## RDalman (Oct 6, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Wait until you see Jannis in hot pants and high heels!!!


Been there 
Assuming you mean lederhosen and the biker boots  (not 100% sure he was one of the hosenwearers at the meet though)


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

RDalman said:


> Been there
> Assuming you mean lederhosen and the biker boots  (not 100% sure he was one of the hosenwearers at the meet though)



for sure he wasn’t lol....

but if that’s your thing I can send you a vintage pic of myself in Lederhosen and Chicks.... I mean: Chucks! Chicks as well..: maybe. My memory is foggy!


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 6, 2020)

This is some passion, I'm starting to see alterwissers point about Xerxes.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> This is some passion, I'm starting to see alterwissers point about Xerxes.



it’s really just a deflection strategy to hide my true feelings, my maker crush


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 6, 2020)

Matus said:


> I have not expected such an overwhelming proof of my point and would like to thank to everyone for their time and effort.


----------



## Matus (Oct 6, 2020)




----------



## alterwisser (Oct 6, 2020)

CM & CM are a match made in heaven. HER-lich


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## M1k3 (Oct 6, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> CM & MC are a match made in heaven. HER-lich


FTFY


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

I just came back from the adventure ranch btw - they synergy was incredible - I was able to hammer some knives, shoot some game, and then relax with some Budo archery.

But CM, now I Get it. the grating function on the CM knives - come on, pure innovation.

Now I know why they are $800/knife. Think about it, you can cut that tomato, and put garlic zest on top - the flavor is going to be unbelievable.


----------



## ptolemy (Oct 6, 2020)

valdim said:


> Good evening.
> I also apreciate the openness of Jannis. Nobody is obliged to make such a deep vertical cut of his business, including personal details. Respect for that.
> I commented in the other thread that I am angry. Yes, I am. I still am. But this has nothing to do with Jannis craftmanship and his business.
> I am angry with frustration that my government fuc*ed up my country's present and as a result I dont feel as an average european, with a decent income to afford the great craftmanship of this German knife-maker.
> ...



Let me ask you this question. If he had lived in your country, would he still charge same for his knives? Assuming that cost of living, raw materials and the rest is much less? Then the question becomes if he now charges $3000 for knife X to fit within his requirements of cost of living that he outlined in post #1, would he charge $1200 for the same knife if it met exact same requirements by living in your country? #'s are just hypothetical, obviously...

As for the major discussion here is simple: A craftsman may charge whatever he or she like. The market will sort that out. If the rasp seller can make a lot of $ to sell her low cost products for high markup, then good for her. Whoever is buying it, might be buying it for brand name, or because she had charmed them, or some other reason, which, whatever it is... is in the eye of the beholder. 

I have no issue with Jannis charging what he charges for any of his goods. That is his call and his call alone. I have many opinions about the rest though, such as month off, 45hrs weeks for 1 person business, etc, but that's neither here or there as he should live his life how he wants not how others want him to.


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 6, 2020)

And just to prove his pricing is reasonable for his target market, this is all thats left









86# Slicer


Ein großer Slicer mit einer Klinge aus tordiertem Mosaikdamast und einem Griff aus Rentiergeweih.




www.xerxes-knives-shop.com


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## ptolemy (Oct 6, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> And just to prove his pricing is reasonable for his target market, this is all thats left
> 
> 
> 
> ...



and I bought my 36cm Kitchen Katana was huge!


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## RockyBasel (Oct 6, 2020)

ptolemy said:


> Let me ask you this question. If he had lived in your country, would he still charge same for his knives? Assuming that cost of living, raw materials and the rest is much less? Then the question becomes if he now charges $3000 for knife X to fit within his requirements of cost of living that he outlined in post #1, would he charge $1200 for the same knife if it met exact same requirements by living in your country? #'s are just hypothetical, obviously...
> 
> As for the major discussion here is simple: A craftsman may charge whatever he or she like. The market will sort that out. If the rasp seller can make a lot of $ to sell her low cost products for high markup, then good for her. Whoever is buying it, might be buying it for brand name, or because she had charmed them, or some other reason, which, whatever it is... is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> I have no issue with Jannis charging what he charges for any of his goods. That is his call and his call alone. I have many opinions about the rest though, such as month off, 45hrs weeks for 1 person business, etc, but that's neither here or there as he should live his life how he wants not how others want him to.



Amen!


----------



## Don Nguyen (Oct 6, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> And just to prove his pricing is reasonable for his target market, this is all thats left
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Honestly that's a steal for that outrageous blade.


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## tchan001 (Oct 6, 2020)

That's a sword masquerading as a kitchen knife.


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## M1k3 (Oct 6, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> That's a sword masquerading as a kitchen knife.


Or Australian EDC?


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## ModRQC (Oct 6, 2020)

It’s funny how, first time I heard of custom knifemaker, I knew it’d be out of my league. I could very well imagine that a single man doing a full knife with a level of craftmanship to those I could sometimes see around here, it was at least worth 2K - USD obviously. Like 2700$ CAD I thought was a start. With a finish of very common nature mind you. Shop and tools are profit eating by nature.

I didn’t really try to have a price ballpark. I saw a couple of ones with prices according to my impressions... but I also saw the works of very good custom makers go under 1K, well under 1K, for a full Guyto or slicer or butcher. I even saw a couple of ones within my price range. And I knew the guys that did those weren’t getting appropriate income at that price. I mean most of the time just the level of finishing of handles - and a great deal of Yo’s with full bolster in there - was most probably worth my most expensive knives. I’d like to have a chance to jump on such an occasion one day. But I think from here on the truth is just that I shouldn’t be able to afford one - good sense applying - and I’ll feel better for these guys when they’ll sell out of my league and still be selling fast.


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## HSC /// Knives (Oct 7, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Trey @Comet went through this process 6 months ago and couldn't make the numbers work that would allow him to raise his young family with a degree of financial security that made sense to him. The knife community is poorer as a result of him stepping away. Carter decided, many years ago, to take a different route which allowed him to grow his business. Jannis should be commended for starting this thread as most if us I think are ignorant of the costs involved in singlehandedly creating works of art in knife form, a process that can take decades to master.


I'm a little different in that I'm 51, have older kids, no debt, and no other real desires except to spend time in France. But nevertheless It's good to reflect on where you are and where you want to be. And that's what I intend to do while I'm here in France with some "time off"

If I wanted to "grow" my business a little bit, I would probably investigate an apprentice helper.
Right now I like my freedom


----------



## Geigs (Oct 7, 2020)

Nobody _needs_ a Xerxes. Or an Ashi Honyaki, Shig, Kato, TF etc. But lots of people _want_ them. This forum exists because all you knife nerds obsess about things a normal person has never heard of. Nobody needs a Monet or a Caravaggio but I sure as hell want one. Xerxes knives are as much art as function and reflect years spent learning and perfecting a craft to the point he's mastered it. You're paying for the decades of experience as well as all the costs outlined in the OP. I spent a decade in school and got a PhD and made pennies, lived on instant noodles. I loved what I did, and had no family, no house, no expenses. People have to make an income that makes sense for their situation- I do well enough now, and if I was making knives they would be a whole lot more than Xerxes based on hourly incomes.

I can't justify spending that much on a knife. It might cut better than my Maz or my Hinoura or my Kemadi (maybe not, that thing is fire) but do i _want_ one? Hell yes. They're awesome. If I had the disposable income instead of 3 kids and a mortgage I'd own several. 

Good luck, Jannis. Your work is impeccable and worth every penny. Your time is valued and valuable, charge whatever you feel is appropriate.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 7, 2020)

I agree with everything you wrote, though you need a raise with a PhD. I only have a Masters and I have enough expendable funds for those things. Then again, I have no kids lol.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 7, 2020)

HSC /// Knives said:


> I'm a little different in that I'm 51, have older kids, no debt, and no other real desires except to spend time in France. But nevertheless It's good to reflect on where you are and where you want to be. And that's what I intend to do while I'm here in France with some "time off"
> 
> If I wanted to "grow" my business a little bit, I would probably investigate an apprentice helper.
> Right now I like my freedom


I'm heading to France next Fall when my current contract ends. Aim is to retire there. I totally get it.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I agree with everything you wrote, though you need a raise with a PhD. I only have a Masters and I have enough expendable funds for those things. Then again, I have no kids lol.



unfortunately, depending in what field you have a PhD in it’s almost necessity/minimum requirement just to get a decent job...

the richest person I personally know doesn’t even have a Highschool degree


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 7, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> unfortunately, depending in what field you have a PhD in it’s almost necessity/minimum requirement just to get a decent job...
> 
> the richest person I personally know doesn’t even have a Highschool degree


Yeah, I know. I'm just being hopeful and supportive.


----------



## Ruso (Oct 7, 2020)

If you can sell all your knifes at the current price point, perhaps you can raise the price for the next batch. If people are willing to pay for your craft more, take it.


----------



## ExistentialHero (Oct 7, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I agree with everything you wrote, though you need a raise with a PhD. I only have a Masters and I have enough expendable funds for those things. Then again, I have no kids lol.



Making more money with a PhD


----------



## Geigs (Oct 7, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Yeah, I know. I'm just being hopeful and supportive.


Ha, thanks. Specialized myself into a niche with few jobs. Yay academia! Genetics of mesoderm specification and skeletal development, made decent money in Nth America working in biotech before moving back to Australia where there is zero biotech industry basically.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 7, 2020)

Yeah, that's tough. Having three kids isn't cheap either. Guess I'll stay in finance/management.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 7, 2020)

ExistentialHero said:


> Making more money with a PhD


It does open a few doors though. I don't think I could have moved around the globe as much as I have without those 3 letters behind my name.

And as Geigs says the renumeration for PhD's in NA is unparalleled. I laugh and commiserate when I see how the UK values its PhD level scientists. No wonder there's a brain drain.


----------



## valdim (Oct 7, 2020)

Geigs said:


> Nobody _needs_ a Xerxes. Or an Ashi Honyaki, Shig, Kato, TF etc. But lots of people _want_ them. This forum exists because all you knife nerds obsess about things a normal person has never heard of. Nobody needs a Monet or a Caravaggio but I sure as hell want one. Xerxes knives are as much art as function and reflect years spent learning and perfecting a craft to the point he's mastered it. You're paying for the decades of experience as well as all the costs outlined in the OP. I spent a decade in school and got a PhD and made pennies, lived on instant noodles. I loved what I did, and had no family, no house, no expenses. People have to make an income that makes sense for their situation- I do well enough now, and if I was making knives they would be a whole lot more than Xerxes based on hourly incomes.
> 
> I can't justify spending that much on a knife. It might cut better than my Maz or my Hinoura or my Kemadi (maybe not, that thing is fire) but do i _want_ one? Hell yes. They're awesome. If I had the disposable income instead of 3 kids and a mortgage I'd own several.
> 
> Good luck, Jannis. Your work is impeccable and worth every penny. Your time is valued and valuable, charge whatever you feel is appropriate.


+1


----------



## ian (Oct 7, 2020)

Geigs said:


> Nth America



Are there really so many Americas that you need to label them numerically?


----------



## ptolemy (Oct 7, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> unfortunately, depending in what field you have a PhD in it’s almost necessity/minimum requirement just to get a decent job...
> 
> the richest person I personally know doesn’t even have a Highschool degree


Plenty of plumbers and electricians can make $100k+ here with a high school diploma and few certifications... oh you can have s Ph.D in ancient greek history and make 1/2 that teaching in a CC... it all depends...


----------



## Byphy (Oct 7, 2020)

That xerxes maker's mark tho . If you stamp a dope maker's mark or chisel some sick kanji on a blade, I'll throw what little money I have at you. I'm easy too, 3 predator dots is enough to get me going.


----------



## parbaked (Oct 7, 2020)

Byphy said:


> 3 predator dots is enough to get me going.


I've only named one of my knives and it is "The Predator".
It's an easy mod. I'll PM you the link to my video tutorial....


----------



## Byphy (Oct 7, 2020)

parbaked said:


> I've only named one of my knives and it is "The Predator".
> It's an easy mod. I'll PM you link to my video tutorial....


That’s very kind of you but I think something this game-changing deserves its own thread. This is bigger than Shig transformation imho and I know I, along with others here would follow that closely #kanjeezy


----------



## nakneker (Oct 7, 2020)

Good post. It’s kinda of sad that you even felt the need to have to defend your pricing. I think we all know custom knife makers that are charging too little. I had a conversation with one the other day who was becoming discouraged and had decided to close his books and think things over. If he ends up quitting we all lose, very talented maker.

I’ve had two Xerxes knives, both were well worth the price I paid, one was new and one was used. Both sold very fast when I let them go which speaks highly of your work. I regret letting those blades go actually.

As far as pricing goes I like your approach, very fair. I hope you continue your craft for a long time, your an asset to the community, your talent and experience show.

We are all spoiled at this point. So many outstanding knife makers out in this big world we live in. The Choices are many, only the good ones will stay. Enjoy!


----------



## valdim (Oct 8, 2020)

@ptolemy @alterwisser Guys, dont you think these posts about the PhD are spamming the theme?


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 8, 2020)

valdim said:


> @ptolemy @alterwisser Guys, dont you think these posts about the PhD are spamming the theme?



hmmm.... they might be OT, but spam?

i mean, what about you discussing your countries average salaries? Is that totally on topic?

Up to the mods to decide, but I don’t care either way, happy to have them deleted. @Matus... your choice. Hope you’re not biased.... having a PhD and all


----------



## juice (Oct 8, 2020)

Man, everyone wants to be a mod these days...


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 8, 2020)

valdim said:


> @ptolemy @alterwisser Guys, dont you think these posts about the PhD are spamming the theme?


At least it's not more CM posts?


----------



## ModRQC (Oct 8, 2020)

juice said:


> Man, everyone wants to be a mod these days...



Now now... I sure don’t want to even though it’s in the ID.




valdim said:


> @ptolemy @alterwisser Guys, dont you think these posts about the PhD are spamming the theme?



I think it takes a PhD to understand your point completely.


----------



## valdim (Oct 8, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> they might be OT, but spam?


OK, it is off topic.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 8, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> At least it's not more CM posts?



infestation of acronyms ... PhD, CM.... even disguised ones (88).


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 8, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> infestation of acronyms ... PhD, CM.... even disguised ones (88).


42


----------



## juice (Oct 8, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> 42


At least that one has meaning


----------



## Ruso (Oct 8, 2020)

1337


----------



## ModRQC (Oct 8, 2020)

And to think the PhD discussion was deemed off-topic...


----------



## Barmoley (Oct 8, 2020)

Yeah, there are a few guys that seem to be able to screwup any thread, serious or otherwise.


----------



## Luftmensch (Oct 8, 2020)

Geigs said:


> Nobody _needs_ a Xerxes. Or an Ashi Honyaki, Shig, Kato, TF etc. But lots of people _want_ them. This forum exists because all you knife nerds obsess about things a normal person has never heard of. Nobody needs a Monet or a Caravaggio but I sure as hell want one. Xerxes knives are as much art as function and reflect years spent learning and perfecting a craft to the point he's mastered it. You're paying for the decades of experience as well as all the costs outlined in the OP. I spent a decade in school and got a PhD and made pennies, lived on instant noodles. I loved what I did, and had no family, no house, no expenses. People have to make an income that makes sense for their situation- I do well enough now, and if I was making knives they would be a whole lot more than Xerxes based on hourly incomes.



Nicely put!



ExistentialHero said:


> Making more money with a PhD






Geigs said:


> Ha, thanks. Specialized myself into a niche with few jobs. Yay academia! Genetics of mesoderm specification and skeletal development, made decent money in Nth America working in biotech before moving back to Australia where there is zero biotech industry basically.



Ahh yes... I use the 'clever country'... just like the 'lucky country'. While the latter was coined in irony, the former is supposed to be an aspiration. I am sorry to hear your travels. I have a friend with a post-PhD career that is very similar to yours. Spun their wheels in Australia (and to some extent internationally) for a third of their working life. Gave up academia and joined biotech in America.




Corradobrit1 said:


> And as Geigs says the renumeration for PhD's in NA is unparalleled. I laugh and commiserate when I see how the UK values its PhD level scientists. No wonder there's a brain drain.



It depends on the area. There are definitely some 'hot' qualifications. Others not at all. Before you even get there, American PhD stipends and postdoc positions are woefully paid compared to parts of the EU and even Australia. To be fair, in some small university towns, this is compensated for by super low living costs.



Education is a decent way of ensuring you have a good shot of securing a job that pays a living wage or better. But I wouldn't be surprised if the top echelons of education were negatively correlated with the top echelons of income.


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 8, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> It depends on the area. There are definitely some 'hot' qualifications. Others not at all. Before you even get there, American PhD stipends and postdoc positions are woefully paid compared to parts of the EU and even Australia. To be fair, in some small university towns, this is compensated for by super low living costs.


Probably right. I was fortunate in that I managed to navigate around the Post-Doc slave economy, by working in industry for 5 years and then transitioning into a faculty position in academia. I know some who were trapped in post-doc Purgatory for decades. Their PI's sabotaging advancement.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 8, 2020)

Not that I have any interest in getting my PhD or getting into academia, but I have a lot of respect for those who do. My wife thinks I'm crazy for getting my second masters, let alone the work a PhD would ensue.


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## juice (Oct 8, 2020)

I really want to go back to working towards my PhD, but my brain (ADHD/depression) is working fairly militantly against that currently.


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 8, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Not that I have any interest in getting my PhD or getting into academia, but I have a lot of respect for those who do. My wife thinks I'm crazy for getting my second masters, let alone the work a PhD would ensue.


I'd think twice about doing a PhD in the US. Can take 5-6 years if lucky, whilst in Europe its 3 years max. I'd completed my further education by 24.


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## Luftmensch (Oct 9, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> I know some who were trapped in post-doc Purgatory for decades. Their PI's sabotaging advancement.



Great phrase: Post-doc purgatory! 

I reckon it has to be the highest qualified 'gig economy' around. They are hired from insecure contract to insecure contract, picking up loose ends of research. While academia pulls a decent middle class income, increasingly universities are happy to abuse temporary and part-time contracts. CoVID has made this painfully clear (in Australia) - universities are happy to string staff along on temporary contracts (potentially for decades) and drop them like a stone when it suits them. 

For an institution that has one of the highest force multipliers for generating GDP, its industrial relations are rather ugly. I would say that lack of permanency is accepted as a norm - more than in industry or the private sector. Whilst most academics are happy to forego higher incomes, they would likely tell you they would like to sleep comfortably at night knowing they will have a job next year to pay off their mortgages.





AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> My wife thinks I'm crazy for getting my second masters, let alone the work a PhD would ensue.



Good for you! There is zero problem with seeking higher education. This economy is pretty cut-throat. Doing whatever you can to stay ahead is a smart move. You just have to be crystal clear about what opportunities further education will provide. Rarely it will require a PhD... Masters are actually a really good option for further specialised knowledge!

There is also nothing wrong with doing a PhD simply for the joy of pursuing knowledge. Again, you just have to be crystal clear about what the implications of that choice are.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 9, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Great phrase: Post-doc purgatory!
> 
> I reckon it has to be the highest qualified 'gig economy' around. They are hired from insecure contract to insecure contract, picking up loose ends of research. While academia pulls a decent middle class income, increasingly universities are happy to abuse temporary and part-time contracts. CoVID has made this painfully clear (in Australia) - universities are happy to string staff along on temporary contracts (potentially for decades) and drop them like a stone when it suits them.
> 
> ...


I agree with your assessment. I think you're in Australia, but in the US for military veterans, we have a GI Bill that, within reason, covers the cost of education and as a bonus give us a housing allowance. I was laid off of my last job (long story, feel free to email me to get the details), so I decided to go back to school instead of find another job. Hence, my focus on education. It should be a bonus, I'm getting an MBA from a top school, whereas my last was a MA.


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## Luftmensch (Oct 9, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> I think you're in Australia



Yes sir  



AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> we have a GI Bill that, within reason, covers the cost of education and as a bonus give us a housing allowance. I was laid off of my last job (long story, feel free to email me to get the details), so I decided to go back to school instead of find another job. Hence, my focus on education. It should be a bonus, I'm getting an MBA from a top school, whereas my last was a MA.



Definitely! Like I say; the economy is cut throat. If you want the most options in the job market, you have to pull all available levers to accrue saleable skills. Whether that be benefits due to service, opportunities for minorities... or extra accreditation through work. Use all available options to you!!

Broadly speaking, rather than seeking work in a febrile job market, gathering more qualifications might be a better long term strategy (and use of free time). You might have to sacrifice a little now, but you could be better positioned when things start to pick up. Of course this decision depends on whether this luxury is possible/available!

For what it is worth... without knowing the specifics of your situation, it sounds like you are making a good long term decision


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## alterwisser (Oct 9, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> GI Bill that, within reason, covers the cost of education and as a bonus give us a housing allowance.



but but but .... isn’t that .... socialism???


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## alterwisser (Oct 9, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> You might have to sacrifice a little now, but you could be better positioned when things start to pick up



i think the Problem, that this “promise” of a better life/career prospects with continued education has been eroded for quite some time now.

often it’s now a minimum requirement to get any decent job, and in countries like the US the debt you take on for a decent education now often doesn’t give you job prospects to make up for them.

in general, I think our education systems are broken. We cherish degrees instead of skills and we teach our children stuff they don’t need and with outdated methods to boost.

sorry for the OT


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## Luftmensch (Oct 9, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> in general, I think our education systems are broken



Agreed!



alterwisser said:


> but but but .... isn’t that .... socialism???



I am not missing the humour in your statement! Not at all... But this is why education is broken!

Degrees still have a lot of value. It is just that the future benefit of undertaking a degree is becoming harder to justify from a financial point of view. This is result of treating education as a user-pays privilege rather than a public good. Is this really where we want to go? If we are sincere about equality of opportunity, there have to be minimal barriers to education... otherwise, where is the social mobility?

I am not ignoring vocational education. We have made a mess of vocational training in Australia. I see vocational and professional education as one and the same. Everybody should have an opportunity to pursue _some_ skill after school.


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 9, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> i think the Problem, that this “promise” of a better life/career prospects with continued education has been eroded for quite some time now.
> 
> often it’s now a minimum requirement to get any decent job, and in countries like the US the debt you take on for a decent education now often doesn’t give you job prospects to make up for them.
> 
> ...


I was fortunate to be in the UK education system when degrees were essentially State funded bar the living expenses. And they paid me to study for a PhD which I supplemented by taking part-time locum jobs as a pharmacist, earning $30/hr, which back in late 80's was a sizable sum. After 6 years of formal education I had zero debt. Things have changed somewhat now.
In before the relegation to OT.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 9, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> but but but .... isn’t that .... socialism???


Not really I earned it, served 21 years with low pay.

PS i get your humor, not really the right context


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## alterwisser (Oct 9, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Not really I earned it, served 21 years with low pay.
> 
> PS i get your humor, not really the right context



I know what you mean....

i just cant help myself ...


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## RockyBasel (Oct 9, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> Not really I earned it, served 21 years with low pay.
> 
> PS i get your humor, not really the right context


Glad you are getting an MBA from a top school - it can help open up job doors in the US.
I got mine from a decent school a while back and it helped - in the US, in EU not sure how much value it adds. But it was a fantastic experience for me - learned a a lot and made great friends


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 9, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> Glad you are getting an MBA from a top school - it can help open up job doors in the US.
> I got mine from a decent school a while back and it helped - in the US, in EU not sure how much value it adds. But it was a fantastic experience for me - learned a a lot and made great friends


I'm going to Penn State if it matters; I was going to get into the executive MBA program at St. Joseph's, but changed direction last minute.


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## RockyBasel (Oct 9, 2020)

Great school! Well done


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## RockyBasel (Oct 9, 2020)

Any particular focus? Finance?


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 9, 2020)

General MBA, my other masters is in organizational leadership.


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## RockyBasel (Oct 9, 2020)

Ok got it, make sure to take a couple of finance courses- crucial skill and it will open many doors


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## RockyBasel (Oct 9, 2020)

You can only really learn finance in b-school or banking


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 9, 2020)

Yeah, they are included in the plan of study. At least 3, probably 4 including graduate level accounting. Oi, cant wait.


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## WildBoar (Oct 9, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> You can only really learn finance in b-school or banking


You can learn it in engineering school by picking some of those classes as easy electives.


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## RockyBasel (Oct 9, 2020)

So true. I remember all the engineers aced finance


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## labor of love (Oct 9, 2020)

The more people trash CM the  I feel on the inside.

Didn’t realize a lot of folks complain about Xerxes pricing-I figured out rather quickly his stuff was too fancy for me and left it at that.


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## Eloh (Oct 10, 2020)

Folks who actually know about the level of craftsmanship that goes into his knives will tell you that they are very reasonably priced.
And unlike quite a few of other makers who I had the chance to try on the fancier side, aesthetics are not the main focus, he is definately about the performance aspect in every facet, steel choice, ht, forge welding, grind etc...
And aside from knowledge and craftsmanship regarding modern metallurgy, he's also very knowledgeable about historic knife making, eg making his own crucible steels and historic knives, archeological projects etc.

So yeah I'm quite a fan lol although I'm not able to afford most of his knives


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## HSC /// Knives (Oct 10, 2020)

AFKitchenknivesguy said:


> General MBA, my other masters is in organizational leadership.


Soon I’ll welcome you to the 2 masters club 
Emba 2002 LMU
MPP 2010 USC


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## alterwisser (Oct 10, 2020)

labor of love said:


> The more people trash CM the  I feel on the inside.
> 
> Didn’t realize a lot of folks complain about Xerxes pricing-I figured out rather quickly his stuff was too fancy for me and left it at that.



bringing up CM in a thread about Xerxes knives is actually a good.... because even a Primus or ANY Xerxes entry level knife is worlds ahead of a CM knife ...

I think the makers you need to compare him to are Maumasi and maybe Haburn in terms of the fit and finish and how much work goes into single knives.

i DONT know how Maumasis perform, I do know that Haburn are not anywhere close when it comes to performance.


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## ian (Oct 10, 2020)

labor of love said:


> I figured out rather quickly his stuff was too fancy for me and left it at that.





Eloh said:


> Folks who actually know about the level of craftsmanship that goes into his knives will tell you that they are very reasonably priced.



I salute those of you who can buy these knives at their reasonable prices! (No sarcasm here. Seriously!) I hope for a future where my wife earns $200,000 a year, so that I can be fancy too.


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## daveb (Oct 10, 2020)

Just tell her she needs a second job!

Says the terminally single guy......


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## alterwisser (Oct 11, 2020)

daveb said:


> Just tell her she needs a second job!
> 
> Says the terminally single guy......



i had a very inappropriate joke in mind that involved the place I met you at .... but I shall refrain


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## ian (Oct 11, 2020)

daveb said:


> Just tell her she needs a second job!
> 
> Says the terminally single guy......



I’d settle for one full-time job! 

It’s been a long process for her trying to find her chosen career. She’s a bit older than I am but has been trying to figure this out for some time, acquiring 3 Masters degrees and most of a PhD along the way. But I think she’s found it now in therapy. Just has to earn enough clinical hours to get licensed for private practice.

More seriously, I don’t really need any $1000 knives. Our first priority will be a house... one with an actual basement! Where I can operate a belt sander!


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## alterwisser (Oct 11, 2020)

ian said:


> I’d settle for one full-time job!
> 
> It’s been a long process for her trying to find her chosen career. She’s a bit older than I am but has been trying to figure this out for some time, acquiring 3 Masters degrees and most a PhD along the way. But I think she’s found it now in therapy. Just has to earn enough clinical hours to get licensed for private practice.
> 
> More seriously, I don’t really need any $1000 knives. Our first priority will be a house... one with an actual basement! Where I can operate a belt sander!



we just moved into a house with a basement for the first time since .... I dunno, 2005.... it’s so great to have. Just very dangerous.... we went from a house with a tiny garage (no space for car) to full basement, and it’s already cluttered even though it’s easily 3x the size of the garage lol


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## juice (Oct 11, 2020)

ian said:


> Our first priority will be a house... one with an actual basement! Where I can operate a belt sander!


Our next place will have a big shed, ready to be filled with power tools. Yes it will.


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## Xerxes (Oct 12, 2020)

Thank you for your numerous answers and comments. I have to admit that sometimes I got lost with the crowd. Nevertheless, I think the idea of a passaround is good. I'll see what can be done in that direction. I would ask you to be patient in this regard, as there are currently several other projects on the agenda.
Many greetings, Jannis Scholz


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## pentryumf (Feb 13, 2021)

Artists and artisans are not evaluated in the same respect as doctors, bankers and politicians. Most artists start making a decent income after death. I am fortunate enough to pay whatever price Xerxes asks and am happy if Jannis can stay employed and continue making incredible knives.


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## DitmasPork (Feb 13, 2021)

pentryumf said:


> Artists and artisans are not evaluated in the same respect as doctors, bankers and politicians. Most artists start making a decent income after death. I am fortunate enough to pay whatever price Xerxes asks and am happy if Jannis can stay employed and continue making incredible knives.



That's an assumption, depends on who's doing the evaluating. I sell art, deal with people and institutions that often hold artists/creatives in higher regard than doctors, bankers and politicians. Knife makers should charge what they feel they're worth, what their market will pay—be it Xerxes, Kato or Chelsea Miller—if priced over the odds, then they won't sell. If they do sell, then pricing is spot on for their targeted market. Simple.


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## RockyBasel (Feb 13, 2021)

Supply vs demand sets price - whether it’s a rasp knife by CM or a 50,000 Damascus by Kramer


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## DavidPF (Feb 13, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Knife makers should charge what they feel they're worth, what their market will pay—be it Xerxes, Kato or Chelsea Miller—if priced over the odds, then they won't sell. If they do sell, then pricing is spot on for their targeted market. Simple.


Because knives are functional, the pricing is not as simple as it is for art (and therefore not as simple as you described). Functional goods can be compared (and are compared) at the functional level, and part of the attraction of some knives is the distinction often made between "sincere and skilled person selling at a fair price" and "dilettante selling inferior products at an inflated price".

And one major problem with all that is that people who are attracted to the "sincere and skilled person selling at a fair price" often have some unreasonable notions about what "a fair price" might mean. Hence this thread, sort of.


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## AT5760 (Feb 13, 2021)

What creates the demand is a topic for another thread.

But, based on everything I’ve read here, OP’s prices seem in line with the level of craftsmanship and their quality as cutters. Maybe someday I’ll find out for myself!


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## DitmasPork (Feb 13, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> Supply vs demand sets price - whether it’s a rasp knife by CM or a 50,000 Damascus by Kramer


Word. What’s the resale estimate on the Bourdain/Kramer knife that went for $231,250.00?


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## RockyBasel (Feb 13, 2021)

I would be so happy to buy a Xerses knife - his metallurgy and knife making skills are superior - more than worth the price in my view


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## DavidPF (Feb 13, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> Supply vs demand sets price - whether it’s a rasp knife by CM or a 50,000 Damascus by Kramer


True but not very important, because what sets demand? And what sets supply?


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## RockyBasel (Feb 13, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Word. What’s the resale estimate on the Bourdain/Kramer knife that went for $231,250.00?


Holy Poo! It went for that much? I mean, even absurdity has its limit - but hey, if people are willing to buy, who am i


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## RockyBasel (Feb 13, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> True but not very important, because what sets demand? And what sets supply?


Markets set those. For example some wines are produced in such small amounts, prices skyrocket by definition


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## DavidPF (Feb 13, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> Markets set those. For example some wines are produced in such small amounts, prices skyrocket by definition


You're saying supply and demand set the market, and the market sets supply and demand.


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## RockyBasel (Feb 13, 2021)

Precisely. Markets are comprised of buyers and sellers of goods and services who set prices.
If something is priced too high and there is no demand for it, or if something has a glut of supply (e.g. oil) then in both bases prices drop


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## DavidPF (Feb 13, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> For example some wines are produced in such small amounts, prices skyrocket by definition


I've got some wine here that I just made; only 2 ml, and it's all I'll ever make. I'll sell it to you for $100,000,000.56


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## RockyBasel (Feb 13, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> I've got some wine here that I just made; only 2 ml, and it's all I'll ever make. I'll sell it to you for $100,000,000.56


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## DitmasPork (Feb 13, 2021)

DavidPF said:


> Because knives are functional, the pricing is not as simple as it is for art (and therefore not as simple as you described). Functional goods can be compared (and are compared) at the functional level, and part of the attraction of some knives is the distinction often made between "sincere and skilled person selling at a fair price" and "dilettante selling inferior products at an inflated price".
> 
> And one major problem with all that is that people who are attracted to the "sincere and skilled person selling at a fair price" often have some unreasonable notions about what "a fair price" might mean. Hence this thread, sort of.


Respectfully, functionality can have little to do with valuation. Gyutos north of, say $400, are venturing into the luxury market—where performance, authorship, provenance, aesthetics can contribute to prices. A Philippe Starck orange juicer is completely functional—but you’re also paying for a splendid design, and Starck’s importance as a designer.


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## DavidPF (Feb 13, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> Precisely. Markets are comprised of buyers and sellers of goods and services who set prices.
> If something is priced too high and there is no demand for it, or if something has a glut of supply (e.g. oil) then in both bases prices drop


This means there is no such thing as a market, it's a superfluous term that just means "supply and demand".
I'm not buying it.


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## DavidPF (Feb 13, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Respectfully, functionality can have little to do with valuation. Gyutos north of, say $400, are venturing into the luxury market—where performance, authorship, provenance, aesthetics can contribute to prices. A Philippe Starck orange juicer is completely functional—but you’re also paying for a splendid design, and Starck’s importance as a designer.


I'm arguing that the functionality is a disproportionately large reason for _some_ of the purchases, and that celebrity designers whose work _isn't_ highly regarded functionally tend to sell to different people.


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## daddy yo yo (Feb 13, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> Respectfully, functionality can have little to do with valuation. Gyutos north of, say $400, are venturing into the luxury market—where performance, authorship, provenance, aesthetics can contribute to prices. A Philippe Starck orange juicer is completely functional—but you’re also paying for a splendid design, and Starck’s importance as a designer.


Functional??? Have you ever used one??? You’ll have juice all over your kitchen counter... and sooner or later you’ll break it or tip it over...


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## DitmasPork (Feb 13, 2021)

daddy yo yo said:


> Functional??? Have you ever used one??? You’ll have juice all over your kitchen counter... and sooner or later you’ll break it or tip it over...


You’re missing the point.


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## pentryumf (Feb 13, 2021)

DitmasPork said:


> That's an assumption, depends on who's doing the evaluating. I sell art, deal with people and institutions that often hold artists/creatives in higher regard than doctors, bankers and politicians. Knife makers should charge what they feel they're worth, what their market will pay—be it Xerxes, Kato or Chelsea Miller—if priced over the odds, then they won't sell. If they do sell, then pricing is spot on for their targeted market. Simple.


That was not the argument I was making. The fact that the appreciation in monetary terms can increase continuously is not applicable for doctors, bankers or politicians.


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## mc2442 (Feb 13, 2021)

Without reading 7 pages of texts, I love the primus' that I own, and if I read the first page correctly, I will look to get on your list if your book is open. Very excited that you are now shipping to the US, I miss the last couple of holiday offerings.


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## ragz (Feb 13, 2021)

mc2442 said:


> Without reading 7 pages of texts, I love the primus' that I own, and if I read the first page correctly, I will look to get on your list if your book is open. Very excited that you are now shipping to the US, I miss the last couple of holiday offerings.



Yes 100%. Also love my xerxes. It was one of the more expensive knives I have purchased, but there was no doubt when I got it that its value was justified. It's really is something special. To hear that his take home salary is as low as it is makes me honestly humbled, and grateful. I will be buying more.


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## RockyBasel (Feb 14, 2021)

Jannis - I will be happy to buy your knives at your prices any day. The more I learn about knives, the more I appreciate your craft


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## Corradobrit1 (Feb 14, 2021)

Whilst not a fan of the Primus line, Jannis' custom knives are worthy contenders. I can count the number of Western makers I want to own on one hand and Xerxes would be one those digits. Its the combination of metallurgy and artistry that sets him apart from the rest.


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## RockyBasel (Feb 14, 2021)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Whilst not a fan of the Primus line, Jannis' custom knives are worthy contenders. I can count the number of Western makers I want to own on one hand and Xerxes would be one those digits. Its the combination of metallurgy and artistry that sets him apart from the rest.


Amen!


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## RockyBasel (Feb 14, 2021)

RockyBasel said:


> Amen!


Curious, who are the other four?


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