# Cleaver Question (Sugi vs. Misono)



## SolidSnake03 (Nov 22, 2015)

Hey Everyone,

So quick question on two different smaller/home sized cleavers. 

Sugimoto #30
Misono No. 61

These 2 have caught my attention because they are both fairly tall (over 90mm) but yet aren't as long as a big full sized cleaver. I'm looking to get one to try out the size and was wondering if anyone has tried both of these? Was hoping for some impressions and or thoughts on them. Will have a full sized Ginga cleaver soon to try out and want to test out a smaller size one for comparison to see which I prefer for all around use. Bit stuck on which one to get since I see some promise to both, the Misono especially looks really thin from the choil shot I saw

If you have any other suggestions of cleavers please let me know but these caught my eye due to size and price point (both <$200 which is awesome).

Figured I would ask around here because I don't often see much about cleavers especially one's that aren't full sized ones and can't remember seeing any posts about these specifically.


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## Benuser (Nov 22, 2015)

Isn't the Misono strongly asymmetric?


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## SolidSnake03 (Nov 22, 2015)

Japanese Chef Knife doesn't list it with the other asymmetrical cleavers so I was assuming it was symmetrical...


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 23, 2015)

Snake I have the Sujimoto CM 4030. I wanted a stainless home vegetable cleaver. It is tall compared to length. Even so it feels like a compact smaller cleaver. It cuts well. Edge retention better than I expected. The grind is tall too over one third up the blade face tapers nicely to the edge. Like the stubby oval handle feels natural with a pinch grip. 

Been using it quite a bit last 2 years as a home blade. I say much less than 200.00. Rakuten Global Market has best price 95.61. I paid more 2 years ago. Never used the Misono, like the Suji handle and I'll bet it has a better grind too.


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## rick alen (Nov 23, 2015)

You might want to check this out on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ginga-Swedi...618031?hash=item1ea767d26f:g:C2QAAOSw5VFWPTAj


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## berko (Nov 23, 2015)

sugimotos steel feels harder, holds its edge longer. misono feels like 57-58 hrc, responds good to steeling. way better f&f on the misono, which is also thinner behind the edge. i sold the misono and still have the sugimoto. eased choil and spine on both.

misono 314g




sugimoto 333g


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## SolidSnake03 (Nov 23, 2015)

Wait so the Misono had better fit and finish and was thinner behind the edge yet you sold it and kept the Sugi? May I ask why? 

Also, man that misono choil shot looks good.

Performance comparison between the two? Was one a better cutter or less wedgy or something?

Thanks BTW, I knew somebody had to have owned both


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## berko (Nov 23, 2015)

i didnt like the soft steel of the misono, felt more like german steel to me. sugimotos stainless is great in comparison. my apprentice is using the misono now.


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 23, 2015)

Thanks for the pictures berko. Thinness and fit & finish do not ness. make a blade a better. You will notice the sugimoto choil shot that it has a tapered convex edge and is thicker higher up than the Misono. This actually makes it a good cutter. It is still a light weight vegetable cleaver with a nice grind. I used CCK carbons at work for many years. Only one I have left is Medium Kau Kong Chopper kind of a compact bone cleaver. It comes in handy when I need it. It is weighted in the front & works great.

Since I have mostly used cleavers with barrel handles western handles do not care for not as comfortable to me. I have seen & used a couple anorexic thin wa handle cleavers. One was the CKTG AEB-L worst cleaver ever used terrible grind, skimpy handle no control piece of crap.


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## SolidSnake03 (Nov 23, 2015)

Those are valid points regarding the Sugi compared to the Misono. I had generally gone with the mentality that for a chinese style veggie cleaver thin was in aka, the thinner the better with these and that as you got heavier and thicker it shifted more toward the meat cleaver side of the spectrum. That said, I will definitely re-assess this.

The soft steel on the misono, what do you mean it "felt like german steel"? Are you talking about it on the stones or in use and what does that really mean for use? I mean I still have a few german beater knives I keep around that are definitely softer steel but at the same time I've never really felt the need to use something "harder". As in, the soft steel wasn't my issue with the knives. Granted yes I can tell a difference compared to my nicer Japanese knives and I do feel that they (japanese) hold an edge noticeably longer but in general use I don't see a huge difference that I could attribute to the steel itself and the hardness as opposed to the actual grind of the knife. This is assuming you aren't sharpening the soft steels too aggressively (too low of an angle) for them to hold it.


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 23, 2015)

Gyuto's and Cleavers are different animals. Because cleavers are much taller there is more area to grind a convex edge. I have restored old Chinese blades that have a continuous grind from the thick spine to cutting edge.

I like thin gyuto's, they work for certain prep jobs that a thicker blade does not. That said some great cutters have thicker spines with more steel to form a convex edge. Thin behind the edge is were it counts.

Think by softer steel in misono may not sharpen as easy as the sujimoto & lack the edge retention. I was surprised of the quality of the steel in the CM4030. I think they know how to make cleavers, heat treatment, no chipping just a good balanced stainless for a vegetable cleaver. At first though it was a little shorter than what used to but as a home blade it's OK push cuts, chopping, peeling pineapple does it all well


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## berko (Nov 24, 2015)

> [...]& lack the edge retention. I was surprised of the quality of the steel in the CM4030.



this.


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## SolidSnake03 (Nov 24, 2015)

You have made a very good point for the Sugi, ok, Sugi it is then 

That said, was yours from rakuten? And how was that? Would rather buy from JCK or something but they don't seem to stock the Sugi #30, they only have the full sized ones


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## alterwisser (Nov 24, 2015)

SolidSnake03 said:


> You have made a very good point for the Sugi, ok, Sugi it is then
> 
> That said, was yours from rakuten? And how was that? Would rather buy from JCK or something but they don't seem to stock the Sugi #30, they only have the full sized ones



$96 at Rakuten...


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## SolidSnake03 (Nov 24, 2015)

Any issues with their quality control or their stuff being "fell off a truck"? Bit leery because of the old sounds too good to be true pricing


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## alterwisser (Nov 24, 2015)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Any issues with their quality control or their stuff being "fell off a truck"? Bit leery because of the old sounds too good to be true pricing



Never bought anything there... But was considering trying ... Given the price of this one!


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 24, 2015)

You could pay 165.00 at CKTG think their quality control worth that much? So far I have done well bottom fishing for price eg. 130.00 for Tojiro HSPS at Knives & Stones. Have seen them over 200.00 some sites. He sold out got some more in stock.

Snake if you are a fit & finish nut the Sugimoto is a little rough. With your background think you can appreciate a blade that cuts well and has a comfortable handle.


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## SolidSnake03 (Nov 24, 2015)

To be honest Keith, I have had all good CKTG experiences. I have always stipulated beforehand the F&F that I expect when talking to Mark and I haven't been let down so arguably if that added price over Rakuten does include the Quality Control I've personally seen then yes, I would pay for it. Now, that isn't to say I'm not up for a deal or am against trying Rakuten just that my experiences have not been negative when I have communicated with the owner what I expected before buying. 

I can appreciate a blade that cuts well and has a comfortable handle but at the same time I can also appreciate something that is decently finished. Granted I would never take finish over performance but at the same time I do prefer something well done over something a bit rougher.


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 25, 2015)

I hear you. They make a lot of the Sujimoto 30 cleavers they are sold on quite a few sites. The rough edges are an easy fix round the spine & choil, the metal collar has gaps filled in with thicker T-88 epoxy. Say get the cheapest price & fix it yourself

You can't have cleaver drawer queens that you admire over a few brews. Save that for the Gyuto's. I had to get rid of my carbon cleavers that used at work when I retired they just rusted when not used all the time. Now have a couple good Japanese stainless & a old CCK carbon bone when I need it. I love cleavers with barrel handles & good grinds.


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## SolidSnake03 (Nov 25, 2015)

Agree with your drawer queen comment regarding cleavers. I think of them as a work tool more than any sort of showpiece like I sometimes see people have their yanagiba or Gyuto. Probably will go rakuten, although some of it depends on shipping time and price too.

Thanks for help. Amy experience using super glue gel by gorilla glue for filling gaps? I've used it just fine before but wondering if the epoxy is a better use/has an adv....


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## rick alen (Nov 25, 2015)

Epoxy is better for all structural work, very water resistant unlike Ca also. Hardware store syringes of it used to be crap, but stuff I've bought in recent years has been pretty good. For gap filling I do prefer a good 20min laminating epoxy as it is thin and will flow into very narrow gaps. Fill from the large end of the gap only so the air is free to be displaced. Make the last application in 20 or 30 minutes when it starts to gel.


Rick


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## alterwisser (Nov 25, 2015)

SolidSnake03 said:


> Agree with your drawer queen comment regarding cleavers. I think of them as a work tool more than any sort of showpiece like I sometimes see people have their yanagiba or Gyuto. Probably will go rakuten, although some of it depends on shipping time and price too.
> 
> Thanks for help. Amy experience using super glue gel by gorilla glue for filling gaps? I've used it just fine before but wondering if the epoxy is a better use/has an adv....



Just curious, how much is shipping w Rakuten?


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## pjotr (Nov 25, 2015)

alterwisser said:


> Just curious, how much is shipping w Rakuten?



With EMS around 2000yen or 16usd


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## SolidSnake03 (Nov 26, 2015)

Definitely have to keep the epoxy in mind! Have a few days off now so I might as well wander over to Lowe's while the lady does Black Friday stuff......


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## drake (Nov 29, 2015)

That Misono looks great. I had a coworker use one for various prep tasks and loved it.


SolidSnake03 said:


> Wait so the Misono had better fit and finish and was thinner behind the edge yet you sold it and kept the Sugi? May I ask why?
> 
> Also, man that misono choil shot looks good.
> 
> ...


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