# Kramer vs Kramer (Carbon steel vs Stainless)



## joelellingson (Feb 28, 2018)

Hi everyone  a new member here. Im a home cook who will soon be purchasing a new chefs knife. I am interested in learning more about Bob Kramers carbon steel chefs knife and about his stainless steel Essential line knife. I have never owned a carbon steel knife before. I plan to stop by my local SLT soon to test out the feel of this knife, even though they only have the Damascus version in stock. The price difference between the carbon steel and the stainless models wouldnt be a factor in my final decision. Ive watched several videos and read reviews about these knives. Im guessing that some of you that have used both of them. If so, would you be willing to share your insights? Does the carbon steel knife get noticeably sharper? If so, by how much? How much more difficult is it to sharpen the stainless-steel knife? Has anyone had their knife chip? How much of a difference is there in how they perform, especially while doing a rocking and walking cut? 

Owners of Bob Kramers carbon steel chefs knife seem to only offer glowing reviews. Are the Essential line knife owners out there as happy? A lot of advice given to new carbon steel knife owners emphasizes learning how to sharpen the knife properly at home. Did you find that, as someone new to sharpening, the sharpening process is a skill that you were able to eventually master? Also emphasized is the need to keep the carbon steel knife clean and dry during a prep session. Did you easily adjust to keeping your carbon steel knife clean and dry during a prep session? Was the upkeep of your first carbon steel knife a significant adjustment for you?


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## DamageInc (Feb 28, 2018)

If you are going to be rocking/walking with the knife, don't bother with the carbon steel. The stainless they use is SG2 which is a very decent.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Feb 28, 2018)

DamageInc said:


> If you are going to be rocking/walking with the knife, don't bother with the carbon steel. The stainless they use is SG2 which is a very decent.



The stainless damascus is SG2; the Essential line is FC61, which has been identified as similar to AEB-L.


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## harlock0083 (Feb 28, 2018)

The profiles are the same between the FC61 and 52100 version (I have the 10" in SG2, FC61, and 52100 and 8" in 52100 and FC61, and I also have a serious problem, but that's another story). For me, the FC61 is thinner behind the edge OTB than the 52100. If you're new to sharpening, then I would think the 52100 would be easier to sharpen. Both will take a high level of polish on the edge, maybe if you're really good you can make the 52100 sharper but its not going to be worlds different imo. I haven't had a chance to use the FC61 yet so I can't comment on how well it cuts OTB. The SG2 out of the box is okay (much better after I thinned it and sharpened it up). My 8" 52100 is used so I can't comment on OTB performance, I haven't chipped the 52100 yet so there's that, but honestly I wouldn't worry about that for the 52100 or FC61 unless you're whacking through bones or (God forbid) use a glass cutting board.

Sharpening is not hard to learn but requires practice unless you're Allen Iverson. I would get some cheap beater carbon knife to practice on instead of spending the money on a good knife if you're concerned. My first carbon knife was a Fujiwara FKH, which is a lot more reactive than 52100. It's not hard to keep to upkeep you just have to be more mindful of it. 

:2cents:


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## Interapid101 (Feb 28, 2018)

Based on this thread and your other thread, it sounds like you really really want the ZK. Why not just buy it in the stainless version, and see for yourself how it really performs for your usual tasks? If you like it, then maybe think about stepping up to 52100. But as a ZK owner and user, I think you'll probably end up with something else. It's got a great handle. My glowing reviews stop there.


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## Barmoley (Feb 28, 2018)

I've used both 52100 8" and FC61 8". These work well for some people but not for others, the knives are very tall at the heel and the profile is unique, so definitely try it if you can before you buy. Both are easy to sharpen and can be sharpened to a very high level. Both hold an edge well, but for me 52100 seemed to last somewhat longer, not dramatically so but noticeable. Since you never used carbon before, you have to realize that even though 52100 is not as reactive as some other carbons it is still very reactive compared to stainless, as in will discolor right away as soon as you cut an onion. Some people get shocked by this as they think that if they wash the knife right after it will not discolor, but it will. If that will be a problem for you go with the stainless. In my experience if you really want something, don't rationalize buying something else, just buy what you want and try it.


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## HRC_64 (Feb 28, 2018)

lots of useful feedback so far, 
I would say to OP
now go to SLT and report back


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## milkbaby (Feb 28, 2018)

Using carbon steel knives is less hassle than using cast iron pots and pans in my opinion. More work than stainless steel but not a deal killer for me, though some other people definitely need to stay away from both carbon steel knives and cast iron cookware.

Those ZKramers look nice.


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## esoo (Feb 28, 2018)

I had the ZK 52100 in both 8" and 10". The 8" was my first carbon knife and really doesn't require a lot of maintenance. the only time I saw rust on it was when I put it away on the knife rack and the blade wasn't dry. Takes a lot to patina it, and the steel sharpened easily. The fit and finish on the handle I would call poor - the rivets were sticking out and the bolster was raised slightly as well. I did generally like the blades.

I sold the 8" as I found the blade heavy for the length. Balance was at the pinch, but the blade was heavy for the size. I found the 10" a better weighted blade. I was convinced to sell the 10" which I replace with a blade half the weight.


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## DamageInc (Feb 28, 2018)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> The stainless damascus is SG2; the Essential line is FC61, which has been identified as similar to AEB-L.



Thanks for the correction.


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## K813zra (Feb 28, 2018)

I do not have the ZK but I can speak for those steels in general. I have a Miyabi in FC61 and I like the steel as it is treated, a lot. Takes a good edge easily and holds it fairly well also. I have had good experience with 52100 in general as well. Not my favorite carbon but it is still a good one.  As for caring for one vs the other, mono carbon is easy to care for and 52100 is not super reactive to begin with. 

Honestly, I think you should just go with your gut and enjoy your new knife.


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## harlock0083 (Feb 28, 2018)

If you're set on a Zkramer, cutlery and more has 20% off on the chef knives. Too bad they don't have the meiji there too :'(


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## briley (Feb 28, 2018)

Sounds like youre new to all this, just like me. I can offer some opinion based on my very recent experience. 

I have the stainless ZK in 8. The knife is brilliant, and I really like it. Having said that, Id probably go with the 10, if I had it to do over. The 8 just seems so tall to me. It holds an edge very well at the factory angle. I took mine down to about 10 degrees, and its just not able to hold that angle without rolling over quickly. 

I just started learning to sharpen, and I am astonished how sharp I can make a knife. I realize I am new, and probably quite poor at it, but the results are truly amazing, and sharper than any knife I have ever used. I started with a Lansky setup, progressed to a Wicked Edge Pro, and am now using none of those. After seeing the results I get from just freehanding on Shapton Glass stones, Im not going back to the guided setups. And I decided that the first time I sharpened on a cheap waterstone from Amazon. 

If I were in your shoes, Id get the ZK stainless, and spend the difference on like a 1000 grit Shapton Glass and stone holder. Watch a buncha YouTube videos, and start working on your existing kitchen knives. I think youll be surprised how easy it is to get screaming sharp edges, and youll love the thin, and nimble ZK knife.


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## DeepCSweede (Mar 1, 2018)

I've had a 10" ZK Carbon for over 5 years and the 52100 can take some abuse. I agree with the others in that it takes a while to patina and is easy to sharpen. The ten inch is almost like having a cleaver and a gyuto in one knife. I mainly use mine as a sweet potato slayer now days.


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## joelellingson (Mar 3, 2018)

Thanks so much to each of you for sharing your insights and excellent advice. Yesterday I was able to test a 10 inch ZK knife at SLT. It is a very nice knife, but it wasn't what I was looking for. 

This morning I bought a 8.5 inch Mac Pro chef's knife. It is quite nimble and feels very responsive in my hand. Next up: learning how to properly sharpen a knife.


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## Dave Martell (Mar 3, 2018)

I wonder how many younger guys don't get the title of this thread's double meaning?


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## ian (Mar 3, 2018)

I'm just assuming everyone knows, but is trying not to turn the conversation to Dustin Hoffman, who since his recent fall from grace has probably turned to KKF for solace. Wonder what his handle is? Given that the allegations surfaced in Nov/Dec, we're probably looking for someone with a late Dec 2017 join date.


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## K813zra (Mar 4, 2018)

Dave Martell said:


> I wonder how many younger guys don't get the title of this thread's double meaning?



I guess it depends on the type of person. I am 30 and my wife and I pretty much live in the video store. You could substitute that for nextflix or what not too, I guess. It was even on TV last week.


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## Dave Martell (Mar 4, 2018)

Yeah I agree, let's not turn this into a Dustin Hoffman discussion. :bigeek:


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## K813zra (Mar 4, 2018)

Dave Martell said:


> Yeah I agree, let's not turn this into a Dustin Hoffman discussion. :bigeek:



What about a thread on K-mart...wait...


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