# Introducing Gesshin Kagero



## JBroida

Introducing Gesshin Kagero... the first powdered steel knife in the Japanese Knife Imports lineup. Check out the sweet knife cases these guys come with.
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/gesshin-1/gesshin-kagero.html

















From the Product Description:
"Gesshin Kagero knives are constructed with a stainless powdered steel core and softer stainless cladding. They have very good edge retention and take a very good edge. These knives have a really nice distal taper, rounded spine and choil, and good edge geometry. They are not as brittle as some other powdered steels, such as SG1 or SG2, but have equal (and sometimes better edge retention). They are also pretty easy to sharpen.

Each Gesshin Kagero knife comes with a padded knife case for you to store and transport your knife. Please use some kind of edge guard or sheath inside of the padded knife case."

You can also buy the padded knife cases separately here:
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/other-items/knife-cases-bags.html


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## obtuse

Is this a better version of the Ikeda/Akifusa/Artisan? If so, I dearly miss my Akifusa. I may need one of these as a replacement.


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## JBroida

replied via PM


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## JasonD

Nah, I'm betting it's that one we saw the preview of earlier. Is this the 30 HRC version or the 50? 

Nice profile on them and I like the padded case.


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## ajhuff

Now that you have officially endorsed a PM knife  I can't wait to have enough pennies to buy one.

-AJ


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## GlassEye

One of these would be pretty high on my list for next knife, except I don't like western handles. What is the grind like?


> Please use some kind of edge guard or sheath inside of the padded knife case.


Will you have saya available for these at some point?


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## Zwiefel

I don't know anything about powder steel knives...is there a primer somewhere?


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## JBroida

[video=youtube;KD7Lkj6xwQM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD7Lkj6xwQM[/video]


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## Andrew H

Nice profile, nice distal taper, very cool lamination line. Great new addition, Jon.


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## JBroida

GlassEye said:


> One of these would be pretty high on my list for next knife, except I don't like western handles. What is the grind like?
> 
> Will you have saya available for these at some point?



i'll see if i can find a saya that fits... we've been getting in a few extra sayas here and there. However, for the time being, it just comes with a clear plastic sheath (like many knives do in the box). This is enough to protect it inside the padded cases they come in.

The sides of the knife have a gentle convexing to them and the knife itself is close-ish to 50/50. Totally fine for either right or left handed users. Its similar in a way to the gengetsu knives we carry... not too thick, not too thin, and so on.


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## JBroida

Zwiefel said:


> I don't know anything about powder steel knives...is there a primer somewhere?



i talk a little bit about it in the video i put up. Here's the gist of it... powdered steels have more uniform grain structure and generally finer grain size given the composition of the steels. Many powdered steels tend to be pretty high carbon (for example sg1, sg2, and srs-15 are all about 1.5% carbon). Many also tend to have tungsten, vanadium, chromium, and other alloying elements that generally cause greater grain size, so the reduction in grain size becomes more relevant.

Powdered steels tend to take very keen edges and have great edge retention. Some can be very tough to sharpen, while other can be much easier. Most powdered steels have a tendency to "settle"... so, for example, lets say you sharpen a powdered steel knife to 100%. It may settle to 95% (even without you doing anything to it), but it stays there for a very long time.

So, the main point of powdered steels is great edge retention with very fine edges.


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## mhlee

JBroida said:


> replied via PM


 = Kind of, sort of, but WAY better.


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## Candlejack

Yeah, i think it's the same OEM-knife but with a better finish, cause the original Akifusa is pretty rough all-round and not rounded. 
The original Akifusa is a great performer but lacks in the fit & finish department, this looks like it's been refined quite well and as long as price hasn't been raised a whole lot, it should be a great knife. 


I assume it's still SRS-15 Jon?


If it is as written above, these knives are a steal for the price and i love that padded case.


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## JBroida

my diplomatic response:
I would prefer not to say what the steel is in this case. Its not really a secret, but so often people get really caught up with the steel and statistics on paper without really trying to understand the knife. I've used these knives and almost every other japanese kitchen knife sold out there, so when people ask about how the knife&#65279; is, how the steel is, and how the heat treatment is, i am able to talk in depth about that.

also, incoming pm


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## Zwiefel

JBroida said:


> i talk a little bit about it in the video i put up. Here's the gist of it... powdered steels have more uniform grain structure and generally finer grain size given the composition of the steels. Many powdered steels tend to be pretty high carbon (for example sg1, sg2, and srs-15 are all about 1.5% carbon). Many also tend to have tungsten, vanadium, chromium, and other alloying elements that generally cause greater grain size, so the reduction in grain size becomes more relevant.
> 
> Powdered steels tend to take very keen edges and have great edge retention. Some can be very tough to sharpen, while other can be much easier. Most powdered steels have a tendency to "settle"... so, for example, lets say you sharpen a powdered steel knife to 100%. It may settle to 95% (even without you doing anything to it), but it stays there for a very long time.
> 
> So, the main point of powdered steels is great edge retention with very fine edges.



I spent about 2 hours on google and only learned about 25% of this....thanks for the very informative reponse and the video too. :doublethumbsup:


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## JBroida

just put up measurements for all of the knives...
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/gesshin-1/gesshin-kagero.html


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## JBroida

Zwiefel said:


> I spent about 2 hours on google and only learned about 25% of this....thanks for the very informative reponse and the video too. :doublethumbsup:



thats what i'm here for... just ask when you have questions.


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## obtuse

The Gesshin Kagero Gyuto I recieved today is giving my Konosuke HD a run for its money. Jon, you did a great job developing this knife. I will post a full review after I give the knife a good workout.


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## JBroida

glad it made it there safely... the distal taper is really nice, no?


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## obtuse

The distal taper is awesome! it feels really great in the hand. I was really impressed just holding the knife, then I diced some onion and it got even better.


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## Dusty

How tough are these, compared say to a kono hd?


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## JBroida

A little less chip resistant, but with significantly better edge retention. Also, because of the grind, the heel is pretty stable... the tip is stupidly thin.


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## Zwiefel

JBroida said:


> A little less chip resistant, but with significantly better edge retention. Also, because of the grind, the heel is pretty stable... the tip is stupidly thin.



Please forgive me...but for people with such deep sharpening skills, and such a love of using them...why would edge retention be so important? (Honest question.)


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## Andrew H

Zwiefel said:


> Please forgive me...but for people with such deep sharpening skills, and such a love of using them...why would edge retention be so important? (Honest question.)



If you're a professional chef you need it.


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## Zwiefel

Andrew H said:


> If you're a professional chef you need it.



What kind of time scale are we talking about? 1, 2, 3, 7 days?


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## stevenStefano

Zwiefel said:


> What kind of time scale are we talking about? 1, 2, 3, 7 days?



I usually go about 2 weeks with my HD. Edge retention is one of the most important things about knives I buy, and it is one of the reasons why I have moved away from using white #2 knives

I like the edge retention of the HD a lot so these Kageros sound great


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## AMP01

These look awsome Jon! How do these compare to the hattori fh gyutos?


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## Zwiefel

stevenStefano said:


> I usually go about 2 weeks with my HD. Edge retention is one of the most important things about knives I buy, and it is one of the reasons why I have moved away from using white #2 knives
> 
> I like the edge retention of the HD a lot so these Kageros sound great



That's 2 weeks of 4-6 hours of prep/day for 10 days? Sounds like quite a lot of product between sharpening sessions.


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## stevenStefano

Zwiefel said:


> That's 2 weeks of 4-6 hours of prep/day for 10 days? Sounds like quite a lot of product between sharpening sessions.



Yeah I'd say that's about right. I'm nowhere near as OCD as some others about sharpening though. I'm sure some others could offer their own times between sharpening. I have a Niolox suji that lasts a lot longer than the HD, I could go a month between sharpenings with it


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## Zwiefel

stevenStefano said:


> Yeah I'd say that's about right. I'm nowhere near as OCD as some others about sharpening though. I'm sure some others could offer their own times between sharpening. I have a Niolox suji that lasts a lot longer than the HD, I could go a month between sharpenings with it



Thanks for the perspective!


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## JBroida

AMP01 said:


> These look awsome Jon! How do these compare to the hattori fh gyutos?



they have more distal taper, they are thinner behind the edge, thinner at the tip, thicker at the heel, have nicer rounded spine and choil, are clad versus solid steel, have better edge retention, are easy to sharpen, slightly more brittle towards the tip and less so near the heel, and come with a much more badass case


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## JohnnyChance

JBroida said:


> they have more distal taper, they are thinner behind the edge, thinner at the tip, thicker at the heel, have nicer rounded spine and choil, are clad versus solid steel, have better edge retention, are easy to sharpen, slightly more brittle towards the tip and less so near the heel, and come with a much more badass case



So you're saying you are happy with how these came out?


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## JBroida

very


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## chuck239

I dont own one (yet... prefect knife for the GF at home and for me at work but I am talking about a small 210 to keep her away from some of my other knives...)... But they really are awesome knives. The taper and FF is great on them and an excellent price. I will be recommending these to friends looking for a knife in that price range.

-Chuck


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## Twistington

Thanks youtube for just halting at the last 8 sec of this video!


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## JBroida

just dont show that picture to the DEA  with a face like that, i must have been on drugs


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## obtuse

that's exactly how I feel right now


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## Burl Source

JBroida said:


> just dont show that picture to the DEA  with a face like that, i must have been on drugs


I'm thinking Thorazine


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## Cutty Sharp

JBroida said:


> just dont show that picture to the DEA  with a face like that, i must have been on drugs



High on blades?


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## AMP01

JBroida said:


> they have more distal taper, they are thinner behind the edge, thinner at the tip, thicker at the heel, have nicer rounded spine and choil, are clad versus solid steel, have better edge retention, are easy to sharpen, slightly more brittle towards the tip and less so near the heel, and come with a much more badass case



Now, that is a Complete reply! :biggrin:

I might just have to come down from Santa Barbara to check this knife out in person.

Thanks Jon!


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## [email protected]

Twistington said:


> Thanks youtube for just halting at the last 8 sec of this video!




hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa Jon looks so bad


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## Chefdog

These look very tempting. With them being very thin at the tip, are they also very flexible? For a frame of reference, how would you compare the toughness and ease of grinding compared to something average, say Mac or Masahiro (vg1?) ? 
I'm breaking in a brand new Kono HD right now, but honestly think its a little too thin and light for my preference. How does this compare for geometry behind the edge, or more spefically, feel on the board? I find the Kono feels slightly fragile at the edge if I make any lateral movement with the tip down (like when slicing chives quickly in the French style). 

Thanks in advance for any input on this. If it sounds right, I might unload the Kono quickly and try this instead...


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## JBroida

they dont have a lot of flex to them at all. Compared to mac and masahiro, they are less tough (read: less resistant to chipping), only slightly more difficult to sharpen, and have significantly better edge retention as well as superior geometry.

when compared to the konosuke, they are thicker at the spine near the heel (thinner at the tip though), not quite as thin behind the edge, but still very thin. Using a rocking motion with these knives is probably not a good idea though (if thats what you're talking about with the chives).

If you have more questions or want more in depth answers, give me a call at the store and i'd be happy to speak with you about this and other options in more depth.


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## Chefdog

Will do Jon, thank you.


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## DitmasPork

Jon,
Wanted to post earlier, but got busy. Just wanted to thank you for an amazing knife, I received the Gesshin Kagero here in NYC on Thursday, love the knife! I've only used it a couple of times, but love the weight and personality of the knifea pleasure to useF+F on it is great. To be honest, I was a bit nervous at first, I had never bought a knife online before this purchase. Your email responses were helpful, and I chatted with you about the knife on the phone [didn't identify myself], and was impressed by your helpfulness and knowledge. Looking forward to getting to know the knife better, sweet blade!

My challenge in the near future is learning to sharpen it properly. The stone I have is a King Combination 250+1000 grit stone that I've had for years, which has served my Sabatier and Wustofs well, is there a preferable stone grit that you'd recommend for the Kagero? 

Thanks again!


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## JBroida

if sharpening is new to you, just stick with the 1000 grit side of the king and work on technique for now... worry about adding new stones later when your technique is better


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## ThEoRy

DitmasPork said:


> Jon,
> Wanted to post earlier, but got busy. Just wanted to thank you for an amazing knife, I received the Gesshin Kagero here in NYC on Thursday, love the knife! I've only used it a couple of times, but love the weight and personality of the knifea pleasure to useF+F on it is great. To be honest, I was a bit nervous at first, I had never bought a knife online before this purchase. Your email responses were helpful, and I chatted with you about the knife on the phone [didn't identify myself], and was impressed by your helpfulness and knowledge. Looking forward to getting to know the knife better, sweet blade!
> 
> My challenge in the near future is learning to sharpen it properly. The stone I have is a King Combination 250+1000 grit stone that I've had for years, which has served my Sabatier and Wustofs well, is there a preferable stone grit that you'd recommend for the Kagero?
> 
> Thanks again!




Make sure that stone is flat if it is not already.


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## Tatsuya

Twistington said:


> Thanks youtube for just halting at the last 8 sec of this video!


This needs to be cropped into an avatar, lol.

Jon, I'm wondering how you guys plan on developing this line in the future in terms of additional styles, and if so whether or not wa-handles are in the cards.


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## [email protected]

Tatsuya said:


> This needs to be cropped into an avatar, lol.
> 
> Jon, I'm wondering how you guys plan on developing this line in the future in terms of additional styles, and if so whether or not wa-handles are in the cards.



Your wa-handle idea is really interesting... we'll see if it's possible...


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## labor of love

[email protected] said:


> Your wa-handle idea is really interesting... we'll see if it's possible...



awesome. i would love to see a wa handle version also!


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## Taz575

Wa with or without the bolster? It shouldn't be that bad to grind down the tang into a Wa style tang and leave the bolster at the front of the ferrule...


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## Vladimir

John, it's handle is made of pakkawood or something else?


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## JBroida

Pakkawood


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## Chefdog

I'd be interedted to hear any feedback from people who've been using one of these gyutos. Any comparisons to other knives and/or other random observations. Thanks.


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## Chefdog

Noone???

Jon,
Does this steel respond to touch-ups, either on a finishing stone or strop, or when it finally dulls does it need to go back to the bottom and start over? I know it's got great edge retention, but how would you say it wears? Does it kinda drop to say 90% then just hold, or is it more of a SLOW, even degradation?

I'm itching to try a PM stainless, and this looks like the front runner.


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## Zwiefel

I only know one person who has one of these and while they love it, it's their first jKnife so they have absolutely nothing to compare it against....unless you want to hear that it's much keener and more lithe than Wusthoff 

Keep hoping someone living close to me will get one...


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## jayhay

I just bought one after using a coworkers and it's a great knife. Honestly, this is my new goto western @ $200 knife recommendation. Steel takes a great edge and holds it very well. Edge retention pretty much is the most important thing to me, and the Kagero delivers. The knife made prep fun again, in what feels like years. Spine and choil are nicely rounded. Handle F&F could be a bit more polished. But in all, freakin' fantastic knife. And this is coming from a carbon guy. Just traded away my Masamoto KS to pick this up. 

I'll put up some pics and more detailed impressions once I work with it for a while. Can't wait to get the thing 

Thanks again, JKI!


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## Chefdog

jayhay said:


> I just bought one after using a coworkers and it's a great knife. Honestly, this is my new goto western @ $200 knife recommendation. Steel takes a great edge and holds it very well. Edge retention pretty much is the most important thing to me, and the Kagero delivers. The knife made prep fun again, in what feels like years. Spine and choil are nicely rounded. Handle F&F could be a bit more polished. But in all, freakin' fantastic knife. And this is coming from a carbon guy. Just traded away my Masamoto KS to pick this up.
> 
> I'll put up some pics and more detailed impressions once I work with it for a while. Can't wait to get the thing
> 
> Thanks again, JKI!


Thanks for the input!


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## JBroida

there are quite a few of these out there now days, but many of them are chefs who are not on the forums (spread across the US and a few abroad)


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## Chefdog

Jon,
Have you found the wear resistance to pose any problems with stones other than your gesshin line? IE: Chocera, shapton, bester, etc.? Obviously, they'll all cut at different speeds, but does having a certain type of abrasive make a significant difference?


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## Chefdog

jayhay said:


> I just bought one after using a coworkers and it's a great knife. Honestly, this is my new goto western @ $200 knife recommendation. Steel takes a great edge and holds it very well. Edge retention pretty much is the most important thing to me, and the Kagero delivers. The knife made prep fun again, in what feels like years. Spine and choil are nicely rounded. Handle F&F could be a bit more polished. But in all, freakin' fantastic knife. And this is coming from a carbon guy. Just traded away my Masamoto KS to pick this up.
> 
> I'll put up some pics and more detailed impressions once I work with it for a while. Can't wait to get the thing
> 
> Thanks again, JKI!



Jay,
I know it hasn't been too long, but would you mind telling us your initial thoughts on your new gyuto?


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## Chefdog

I received my gesshin Kagero gyuto today and got to do a little work with it. My initial impression was that the profile was much more streamlined than I expected from the pictures. I thought it was going to be a little more sheepsfooted, ala masamoto, but in person it's more pointy, almost a little sabatier-like, which suits me fine. It definitely feels sturdy and has a good weight while feeling agile and capable of precision and finesse. Finish is nice, not perfect, but very good. The handle seems a bit narrow, but I rarely really pay attention to hadles after a couple days adjustment. 
The tip is nice and thin, and the grind seems to be slightly convexed and even. Ill have to put an edge on it tomorrow, and fix the tip, since I nicked a 1/9 pan and lost a mm or so w/in the first 1/2 hour!!
The padded case is a neat addition, way better than the regular cardboard box, and more useful for me than a saya. 
Ill add some more thoughts when I get to do some real work with it and get to sharpen it.

And as usual, service from JKI was great. Jon answered several questions over the phone and actually called me back when he got a little busy with customers in the store, which was beyond what you'd get from 99% of businesses these days.


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## Chefdog

I sharpened this knife last night and I have to say that i was totally shocked at how easily it took an edge. From what Ive heard about the edge retention, i was expecting to put in some work to create a burr and then wear it down. Starting on JNS 1K stone i was literally able to pull a burr in less than a minute :dazed:
If i was blindfolded and handed this knife to sharpen, i would've guessed it was carbon, it was that easy. I'm not sure if this was due to slightly weakened steel at the edge after the heat treating & grinding at the factory, or if its just the way it is:scratchhead: Was able to pull a burr with a Rika following that, and then a quick strop on felt, and it had a clean shaving edge in under 10 minutes. Cool. Now i just need to put in some time and see how I like the short/slender profile, and adjust to the slightly small and squarish handle.


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## [email protected]

Chefdog-
So glad that the knife got there safely and that it seems the knife is working out well for you. We spent a lot of time developing Gesshin Kagero knives and I'm really happy to see our effort paid off


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