# Shihan knives



## danemonji (Jul 18, 2020)

I've recently seen a Shihan 245/56 monosteel 52100 with a bit of ku finish at the spine. Very nice profile and grind from the pictures.
Can any of the owners tell me something about the knife. How is the geometry the HT, edge retention etc...
I might pick one to try it out and want to know what to expect


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## ChefShramrock (Jul 18, 2020)

I have a 180mm gyuto. It takes a nice patina, pretty low maintenance. Edge retention is great. I love the profile. Great distal taper.


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## MrHiggins (Jul 18, 2020)

I own two ShiHans, one that's White 2 clad in wrought iron and the other in his 52100 mono with the standard hammered/KU finish. 

I'm a HUGE fan of his 52100. It gets sharp as hell and is tough as nails. I don't know about edge retention because I'm a home cook who touches up his knives pretty often. The grind is on the workhorse side of the spectrum and is meticulously done. 

There seems to be a general, undefined criticism of his profiles on this forum, but I honestly don't understand what the complaint is. I have no issue with the profile on either of mine and they seem quite unremarkable/middle of the road, in a good way.


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## parbaked (Jul 18, 2020)

MrHiggins said:


> I'm a HUGE fan of his 52100. It gets sharp as hell and is tough as nails. I don't know about edge retention because I'm a home cook who touches up his knives pretty often. The grind is on the workhorse side of the spectrum and is meticulously done.



This is my exact experience with a 52100 KU petty I recently sold!
It was just a little too thick for a petty to keep and too pretty for me to thin.
Meticulous is a good word to describe the F&F.
FWIW Josh at Bernal told me Sheehan's 52100 is his favorite 52100 to sharpen...


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## tgfencer (Jul 18, 2020)

I believe Shihan is also the only Western-made brand that JKI carries, which is saying something.


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## stringer (Jul 18, 2020)

I love my ShiHan. I have the monosteel 52100 250mm kurouchi gyuto model. I have had it for something like 2 years maybe. I have used it some in a professional environment but it has primarily been my at-home cooking knife. I beat the crap out of my knives and the Shi.Han is one of the toughest I have seen. Nice beefy spine, thin behind the edge, tall heel height, holds a very keen geometry. The factory microbevel is a chunker. The steel can handle a much more aggressive approach. The tip was not as thin as I would like. So I did modify those particular aspects of the knife. But I am a huge fan of the overall grind and profile. I am predominantly a push/rock chopper. I don't think the swept back tip would work as well for someone who is a pull cutter. The 52100 is also near bulletproof in terms of rust. It will slowly patina but only if you leave it really dirty really often. The heat treat is probably about HRC 61-62. It feels very nice on the stones. More abrasive resistant than simpler carbon but I haven't experienced any gumminess or difficult deburring. The handle is one of the most comfortable I have ever used. I do wish the gap between the choil and the handle was a little smaller. But this has only really been a problem for me when I need to chop literally bushels of produce and my hands get slimy. At home I have never noticed. Edge retention is ? I am not sure how to answer that. It can make it through several days professional balls to the wall chopping and then retouch pretty easily. That's good enough for me.


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## thebradleycrew (Jul 18, 2020)

Another big Shi.Han 52100 fan here. Admittedly, I think all of his steels are well done and well executed. Geometry is a nice balance between thin behind the edge for cutting feel and convexity for food release. Heat treat is slightly lower than some people push 52100 to, but doesn't seem to impact durability. Very tough knives that take a lot of abuse. I think in most regards would be very well suited in a pro kitchen given the way he builds them.


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## danemonji (Jul 18, 2020)

Very good feedback so far. Thank you all for sharing. I will definitely buy one.


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## tchan001 (Jul 18, 2020)

Has anyone experienced his forged AEB-L? 
Seems to be a nice choice for people who need stainless.


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## Corradobrit1 (Jul 18, 2020)

Looking forward to getting my first Shihan too. Something a little different though


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## vl2k1 (Jul 18, 2020)

Yeah, I can vouch for the quality of Shi.han knives. I got a few from KKF as well as from him directly and they are what the posts above described. Very durable, designed for professional environment and can take a beating. The AEB-L version is very good as well. I don't have graceful knife skills; thus I abused it quite a bit and challenged it with cutting hard food items. A quick sharpening session bring it back to normal as if nothing happened. Excellent knives for folks like me.


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## Kgp (Jul 18, 2020)

I’ve got two, a 210 and 135 petty. Most used knives in my kitchen.


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## BartHarleyJarvis (Jul 18, 2020)

Does anyone know the differences, if any, between the regular Shi Han and the Ginrei from JKI?


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## labor of love (Jul 18, 2020)

I’m a big fan of his work, but I’m not into his normal profile at all. Here’s a few pics of 2 custom profiles he’s made for me.


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## labor of love (Jul 18, 2020)

This particular profile is perfect for me. Next time I get a shihan I’ll request this.


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## Corradobrit1 (Jul 18, 2020)

labor of love said:


> This particular profile is perfect for me. Next time I get a shihan I’ll request this.



Snap. Perfect profile for me too.


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## ExistentialHero (Jul 18, 2020)

labor of love said:


> This particular profile is perfect for me. Next time I get a shihan I’ll request this.




Yummmm, that wrought cladding is really nice.


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 18, 2020)

Love my JKI Shi.han, profile doesn’t look that different than regular gyuto to me. 

cuts as well as my Toyama, but less boring looking.

52100 tough, cuts semi frozen meat with confidence.


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## MrHiggins (Jul 18, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> Love my JKI Shi.han, profile doesn’t look that different than regular gyuto to me.



I'm with you. Like I said in my post above, I've heard people say they don't like his profile, but I've never heard that criticism explained. I fear that one person said it once, and now others just repeat it. There's just simply nothing out of the ordinary going on with his profile.


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## ian (Jul 18, 2020)

MrHiggins said:


> I'm with you. Like I said in my post above, I've heard people say they don't like his profile, but I've never heard that criticism explained. I fear that one person said it once, and now others just repeat it. There's just simply nothing out of the ordinary going on with his profile.



The tips look too high for me in the regular profile. I’m a pull cutter primarily and a lower tip flatter profile works better for that. I like labor’s profile better.


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## labor of love (Jul 18, 2020)

ma_sha1 said:


> Love my JKI Shi.han, profile doesn’t look that different than regular gyuto to me.
> 
> cuts as well as my Toyama, but less boring looking.
> 
> ...


That profile on the left does indeed look nice. Most of his profiles off the shelf don’t look this way.


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## soigne_west (Jul 18, 2020)

I was one of those people who thought i wouldn't like the profile. But after trying @MrHiggins i really enjoyed it. Plus the convexity on that thing was crazy nice.


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## labor of love (Jul 18, 2020)

Over the years he might’ve adjusted his profile. Perhaps they have less curve these days. But after being dissatisfied with the profile twice I just order direct now to ensure I get the knife how I want it.


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## Corradobrit1 (Jul 18, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Over the years he might’ve adjusted his profile. Perhaps they have less curve these days. But after being dissatisfied with the profile twice I just order direct now to ensure I get the knife how I want it.


Thats how I'm proceeding. 
A Comet I owned had a similar exaggerated tip angle/height and just didn't work well for my cutting style. Everything else though I really liked. I now steer clear of that profile.


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## labor of love (Jul 18, 2020)

Here’s an example of lots of belly and high tip.








A2 240mm Gyuto — shi.han fine knives


This 240mm Gyuto has a little extra heft to it. It should prove to be a great workhorse blade for someone who likes a little forward momentum in a large blade. 8.4 oz (238g) This A2 is a toothy, wear resistant alternative to my 52100. While it offers a meaningful step up in terms of stain resistanc




www.shihanfineknives.com




Again, I really dig his work-but I just have my profile preferences.


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## stringer (Jul 18, 2020)

Mine is a pretty extreme example of the upswept tip. Looks almost like a Wusthof or something.


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## Corradobrit1 (Jul 18, 2020)

JNS Kato 240 WH is another good example with that extreme profile. 








Screenshot 2020-07-18 21.58.07.png


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


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## labor of love (Jul 18, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> JNS Kato 240 WH is another good example with that extreme profile.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is true. Somehow I love it regardless of its faults.


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## valgard (Jul 18, 2020)

labor of love said:


> This particular profile is perfect for me. Next time I get a shihan I’ll request this.



This one is so hot


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## labor of love (Jul 19, 2020)

valgard said:


> This one is so hot


I think we have enough proponents here to petition for official gyuto profile change.


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## Corradobrit1 (Jul 19, 2020)

I second that motion


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## Geigs (Jul 19, 2020)

Has anyone used his A2? I like the extra heft, but have no experience with his work. +1 also for a profile modification


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## panda (Jul 19, 2020)

just tried one for the first time yesterday. I like everything about it except the profile. wonderfully balanced workhorse.


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## Bear (Jul 19, 2020)

labor of love said:


> This particular profile is perfect for me. Next time I get a shihan I’ll request this.



I'm really liking it, this is only the second knife I've found that fits me perfect.


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## JBroida (Jul 19, 2020)

BartHarleyJarvis said:


> Does anyone know the differences, if any, between the regular Shi Han and the Ginrei from JKI?


I always ask him to make things thinner, but the reality is there is little difference other than then name, which is more of something to honor where he spent time learning and how we met than anything else.


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## MrHiggins (Jul 19, 2020)

Both my Shi-Hans are being loaded out at the moment, but here's a profile pic of my 225 taken by shehan. Nothing wonky about the profile in my opinion...


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## Jville (Jul 19, 2020)

panda said:


> just tried one for the first time yesterday. I like everything about it except the profile. wonderfully balanced workhorse.


What don't you like about the profile?


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 19, 2020)

I've got one wrought iron cladding Shihan 260mm W2 gyuto (not white #2) from Sean (aka nakneker) and love it.
At 270 grams, i thought i would be a bit too heavy, bit its balance is perfect.
Its profile has a bit more belly than my preference, but it works so well, it became one of my favorite blades.


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## labor of love (Jul 19, 2020)

I’m not sure what is so complicated about this profile conversation we’re having. Just buy the Shihan that has the profile you like. Clearly there’s a spectrum.


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## M1k3 (Jul 19, 2020)

And if you still don't find the profile you like, order a custom.


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## panda (Jul 19, 2020)

Jville said:


> What don't you like about the profile?


back half of the knife is too flat.

i may just order a custom profiled one down the road.


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## ExistentialHero (Jul 19, 2020)

panda said:


> back half of the knife is too flat.
> 
> i may just order a custom profiled one down the road.


Huh, and I was just thinking the front half was too curved. Diff'rent strokes.


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## MrHiggins (Jul 19, 2020)

panda said:


> back half of the knife is too flat.
> 
> i may just order a custom profiled one down the road.


The only profile I really can't stand is one that's so flat on the back end that it gives you a "hard stop" feeling during a push cut or rock. That doesn't happen with any Shi-Han I've used, but I've had other well respected knives that did it, all of which I've sold.

As to Labor's point, of course it's right: If you don't prefer a particular profile, then don't buy the knife (or use it and get rid of it if it's not for you). The reason I brought up the Shi-Han profile issue is because I wanted to air out why it seems to be KKF's Collective Opinion that Shi-Han's knives are great, except for the profile.


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## soigne_west (Jul 20, 2020)

I forgot I snapped a few pics of @MrHiggins knife


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## panda (Jul 20, 2020)

ExistentialHero said:


> Huh, and I was just thinking the front half was too curved. Diff'rent strokes.


actually in earlier versions they definitely had too much belly in the front. the one i tried (labor of love) the front half is quite good.
a knife can have both too much curve up front and too flat in the back, i've run into a few knives like that before and i would put it down immediately because it was 2 strikes back to back, haha.


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## ian (Jul 20, 2020)

panda said:


> actually in earlier versions they definitely had too much belly in the front. the one i tried (labor of love) the front half is quite good.
> a knife can have both too much curve up front and too flat in the back, i've run into a few knives like that before and i would put it down immediately because it was 2 strikes back to back, haha.



Yea, I dunno why having a flat spot that’s half the knife long is desirable to people at all. Doesn’t compute to me. Or rather, it computes in theory (no accordion cuts) but not in practice, ‘cause it feels terrible.


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## madelinez (Jul 21, 2020)

I actually like that profile, I tend to use different sections of the knife for different cutting styles. The only thing I dislike it for is for slicing meat.

It be interesting to see a video of it in action though because we might be talking about very different things. Also professional chefs are going to have different needs to home cooks, I won't pretend to understand what doing 4 hours of prep is like.


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## ExistentialHero (Jul 21, 2020)

ian said:


> Yea, I dunno why having a flat spot that’s half the knife long is desirable to people at all. Doesn’t compute to me. Or rather, it computes in theory (no accordion cuts) but not in practice, ‘cause it feels terrible.



I never rock, so a smooth transition isn't important to me. A large flat section is useful for chopping, a curved tip section is useful for drawing down the board, and a pointy tip is useful for tip work.

Literally diff'rent strokes, I guess.


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## ian (Jul 21, 2020)

ExistentialHero said:


> I never rock, so a smooth transition isn't important to me. A large flat section is useful for chopping, a curved tip section is useful for drawing down the board, and a pointy tip is useful for tip work.
> 
> Literally diff'rent strokes, I guess.



I guess one difference might be that there’s usually a significant amount of pull in my strokes. If the knife is super flat, the segment of contact with the board is larger, so there’s more drag on the knife as you pull. I like a pointy tip just fine, but similarly if the knife curves upward too much at the tip, it becomes too difficult to use with a pull cut, since you’d have to pull your elbow up in the air dramatically with each pull to keep the knife edge close to the board. Guess those strokes are best with subtle (not too flat, not too curved) curvature along the length of the knife.


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## stringer (Jul 21, 2020)

My first 5 years of professional cooking were almost exclusively spent rocking with big cheap house knives. I gradually taught myself to push cut over the years as my tastes moved more toward Japanese knives. I still rock for certain tasks whether I'm using a sujihiki, a gyuto, cleaver, petty, nakiri, whatever. It's ingrained in my technique and I have no reason to want to change that. I have no issues with rocking causing problems no matter how thin or hard thin the knife is. I don't like gyutos where the tip is too low because I tend to go into rocking motion and then stab the cutting board damaging the tip. Other than that the profile of a knife doesn't matter to me as long as there is no recurve. I have knives that I enjoy using with all sorts of different profiles and can adjust my technique as long as the knife is sharp.


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## mise_en_place (Jul 21, 2020)

stringer said:


> I have knives that I enjoy using with all sorts of different profiles and can adjust my technique as long as the knife is sharp.



I'm more in this camp, but some people are rigid and unwavering in their "needs" or preferences. If you can't cut an onion with a house knife I think it says more about you than the knife. 

I think people make a bit too much noise about profile, but if you've got cases of onions, peppers, and potatoes to go through on a daily basis, I think you earn the right to be a bit more discerning in your preferences. 

I had a Shi.Han with the "horrid" upswept tip and I liked it quite a lot. In fact, one of my favorite knives to use right now (from HSC), has a slightly similar profile.


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## ian (Jul 21, 2020)

mise_en_place said:


> If you can't cut an onion with a house knife I think it says more about you than the knife.



Hey now.... it’s not that we _can’t_ use other knives. We’re spending ungodly amounts of money for designer quality knives. Is it so strange to want to buy a knife that suits our preferred cutting style perfectly? One approach is to adapt out cutting style to our aesthetic unicorn. But that’s not the only reason to buy fancy knives.


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## mise_en_place (Jul 21, 2020)

ian said:


> Hey now.... it’s not that we _can’t_ use other knives. We’re spending ungodly amounts of money for designer quality knives. Is it so strange to want to buy a knife that suits our preferred cutting style perfectly? One approach is to adapt out cutting style to our aesthetic unicorn. But that’s not the only reason to buy fancy knives.



All I know is I would never buy a Kato because I like my kanji chiseled in by people who have hit puberty. Y'all can have the five-year-old writing.


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## stringer (Jul 21, 2020)

My favorite profiled knife of all time cost me less than $20 all in on eBay. It's a 10" Ontario True Edge with a half tang.


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## Barmoley (Jul 21, 2020)

I am with @ian, obviously any sharp knife can be used to do whatever, but people here are knife enthusiasts and are spending money on knives. Ofcourse we discuss minute details and go overboard, this is same in any hobby or group of enthusiasts. If profile doesn't matter to some of you, great why are you discussing profiles. Clearly profiles can make a huge difference and people have their preferences. We can all adjust to whatever, but unless one had to why bother when you can get a profile that works better for you, just makes no sense at all. Sometimes I feel like some people just need to feel superior to others and are running around claiming that steel doesn't matter, grind doesn't matter, profile doesn't matter, it is all technique after all and they can do everything with a sharpened fork, great for you, why are you discussing knives in the first place, you already achieved mastery of all things knife.


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## Barmoley (Jul 21, 2020)

To stay a little bit on topic. I had very good experience with Sheehan, great guy to deal with. Had 2 of his knives. The A2 was good, but too blade heavy for me and the tip was a little too high, but not bad. Could replace the handle to make it balance better, but ordered a custom 52100 instead. The custom was great, I ordered flatter profile, lower tip as this is my preference. Really liked that knife, need to get another one of these days.


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## mise_en_place (Jul 21, 2020)

I fully understand why people dissect various aspects of knives. I wasn't trying to act superior or put anyone down. 

Newcomers may not appreciate why we're being so specific about one thing and get the impression that 47mm is the ultimate heel height (just to make up an example), and 46mm is as unacceptable as 48mm.

Discuss away. I don't know many people who are into knives as much as the participating members around here, so where else would we say such things?


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## captaincaed (Jul 28, 2020)

There’s an old argument about tools and woodworkers. “Only a bad workman blames his tools”

I’m of two minds. Nick Wheeler started with files and magazines, and he’s the standard on finishing. However, I don’t know a single professional knifemaker who doesn’t have a decent 2x72 grinder.

I think there’s a difference between competence and efficiency. Someone competent can be efficient with a great tool. From my corner of the craft world, you can do great woodwork with tools that are out of square, but it’s a hell of a lot easier if they’re square.

So what does this mean about custom v. Victorinox? I forgot what my position on the issue was...


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## danemonji (Oct 19, 2020)

Quick feedback on my 240 shihan in 52100 steel. It has a too high to little convex side grind and it is a sucktion magnet for all thin slices. I have to claw them off the sides of the knife.
He should look at how a Kato worhorse is convexed and learn from that.
The blade is very forward heavy and it feels out of ballance and totally throws of my chopping rithm. To be honest i like it the least of my knives so far and I am thinking of selling first chance I get. I had high hopes for this one, based on the community feedback but each time i try it for a salad i end up with the same feeling.


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## thebradleycrew (Oct 19, 2020)

danemonji said:


> Quick feedback on my 240 shihan in 52100 steel. It has a too high to little convex side grind and it is a sucktion magnet for all thin slices. I have to claw them off the sides of the knife.
> He should look at how a Kato worhorse is convexed and learn from that.
> The blade is very forward heavy and it feels out of ballance and totally throws of my chopping rithm. To be honest i like it the least of my knives so far and I am thinking of selling first chance I get. I had high hopes for this one, based on the community feedback but each time i try it for a salad i end up with the same feeling.


Have you thought about sending it back to Shehan for work? In my experience he would gladly adjust the grind and handle to adjust the balance for you. Might be worth giving it a try.


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## IsoJ (Oct 19, 2020)

danemonji said:


> Quick feedback on my 240 shihan in 52100 steel. It has a too high to little convex side grind and it is a sucktion magnet for all thin slices. I have to claw them off the sides of the knife.
> He should look at how a Kato worhorse is convexed and learn from that.
> The blade is very forward heavy and it feels out of ballance and totally throws of my chopping rithm. To be honest i like it the least of my knives so far and I am thinking of selling first chance I get. I had high hopes for this one, based on the community feedback but each time i try it for a salad i end up with the same feeling.


Send him a message, I had similar experience and he offered to take it back and check/fix the blade. He said that sticking shouldnt be problem normally with his knives. I have a custom measurements but still...

Edit: the suction/sticking is the only problem with the knife for me, I really like the balance and F&F and feel of the knife


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## labor of love (Oct 19, 2020)

Sounds nothing like the 6 shihans ive used. He will gladly work on knives though.


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## Barmoley (Oct 19, 2020)

danemonji said:


> Quick feedback on my 240 shihan in 52100 steel. It has a too high to little convex side grind and it is a sucktion magnet for all thin slices. I have to claw them off the sides of the knife.
> He should look at how a Kato worhorse is convexed and learn from that.
> The blade is very forward heavy and it feels out of ballance and totally throws of my chopping rithm. To be honest i like it the least of my knives so far and I am thinking of selling first chance I get. I had high hopes for this one, based on the community feedback but each time i try it for a salad i end up with the same feeling.


Is your knife a custom or his standard? What is the handle made out of? The A2 I had was very blade heavy and had Ho wood handle, could definitely use a heavier handle. Food release has not been an issue for me with the 2 knives I've had from him. Did yours develop patina yet? I've had some knives very sticky when new and then they became less so when some patina formed, really bizarre. Like others suggested, talk to Shehan and see what he can do to fix your knife.


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## ModRQC (Oct 19, 2020)

Godammit, and I promised myself not to shell out so much money for a knife, but I want some 52100 and have an opportunity at a Shihan that seems to my liking. You guys have now done convincing me that I couldn't live without trying one.


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## JakeLoveshighCarbon (Oct 19, 2020)

Sorry to hijack, but what makers would you all say is closest to shi han from a geometry standpoint? Like if I wanted to try a shi han on a budget.


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## ModRQC (Oct 21, 2020)

I would have decided against shelling so much money. But then I asked a couple questions about Ai and Om 210mm unit. Got a great proposition. Dealt some more out of it.

You damn enablers...


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## ModRQC (Oct 21, 2020)

JakeLoveshighCarbon said:


> Sorry to hijack, but what makers would you all say is closest to shi han from a geometry standpoint? Like if I wanted to try a shi han on a budget.



I got the real thing "on a budget" - so to speak.


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## stringer (Oct 21, 2020)

I have been satisfied with the performance of my Shi.Han. Patina does help a lot with stiction but it's hard to get started on the 52100. I thinned the tip a bit but the rest of the geometry is pretty stock.


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## Bear (Apr 4, 2021)

Hands down my favorite knives but I need a 240, I was just wondering if anybody has tried his newer A2 treatments


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## @ftermath (Apr 4, 2021)

Bear said:


> Hands down my favorite knives but I need a 240, I was just wondering if anybody has tried his newer A2 treatments
> 
> View attachment 121225


Mine is inbound but detoured to Andrew Tarling for a polish first. I should have it in about a month. Check out forty knives social media posts for some extra photos of Shihan A2.


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## tcmx3 (Apr 4, 2021)

I asked for a flatter profile for my 52100/thermory Shi.Han and it's a fantastic. It's not as flat as my Mizuno KS style, or Mazaki, but it's a bit flatter than my Tsourkan which is the knife I think it's most similar too otherwise (grind, overall shape, heft, etc)


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## labor of love (Apr 4, 2021)

JakeLoveshighCarbon said:


> Sorry to hijack, but what makers would you all say is closest to shi han from a geometry standpoint? Like if I wanted to try a shi han on a budget.


That’s part of the reason I like shihan so much. His work is all it’s own. Doesn’t really remind me of anything. Although maybe there’s something out there perhaps but I haven’t used it yet.


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