# Can't shave!



## Antiboost (Jul 6, 2020)

Can anyone help me? I've got my angles down now having been using whetstone for a month or so. I have a 1000 and 6000 combo stone. 
I seem to get to a point where I can cut vegetables well but paper and shaving goes wrong. 
I think it might be the stopping strokes but I got a USB microscope and there's no burr as far as I can see.


----------



## panda (Jul 6, 2020)

why do you need to cut paper and shave with a kitchen knife??


----------



## Illyria (Jul 6, 2020)

panda said:


> why do you need to cut paper and shave with a kitchen knife??



The paper test is okay, because it might show you a dull spot that you missed? 

But yeah, in most places that I've worked (world 50 best places, 2-3 Michelin stars, James beard, etc.) it's rare to see someone go past a 1k stone.


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 6, 2020)

Illyria said:


> The paper test is okay, because it might show you a dull spot that you missed?
> 
> But yeah, in most places that I've worked (world 50 best places, 2-3 Michelin stars, James beard, etc.) it's rare to see someone go past a 1k stone.


I agree with you on the 1000 being good enough, I watched a video with them getting a razor like edge on a brick. 
I guess for the home enthusiast its about polished edge and ultimate shott life edge rather than work sharp durable edge.


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 6, 2020)

panda said:


> why do you need to cut paper and shave with a kitchen knife??


I think its used as a visual cue to ultimate sharpness on YouTube videos etc.
I cut more vegetables than paper and hair for sure


----------



## Steampunk (Jul 6, 2020)

panda said:


> why do you need to cut paper and shave with a kitchen knife??



Edge tests like these are canaries in a mineshaft... If an edge cannot shave hair along the whole length, you can feel it hang-up on things like peppers or tomatoes, or increased resistance/risk of sliding off when you go to dice/mince a shallot... If it cannot pass these tests, it's a sign that there's something fundamentally wrong with the edge, because you should be able to shave hair (Not well enough to avoid irritation on the face, but enough to remove arm and leg hair without irritation.) down to maybe 500 grit on dense water stones, or maybe even lower on diamond plates... These are far from being 'over refined' , or 'delicate' edges. 

I've seen Japanese sharpeners test their edges against the hair at the back of their head, to feel whether it slides off of it, or grips onto it... The 'Grip' is a good sign of how the edge will bite rather than slide on an ingredient.

If an edge cannot pass such tests, you don't know what using a properly sharpened knife on food feels like, and probably are needing to work harder than is necessary while cooking. Also, one's edges aren't able to last as long, as the defects causing that performance deficit also cause edge weaknesses, and the added pressure/sawing against the board one needs to use when cutting also increases strain on the edge. 

Achieving shaving sharpness is just about grinding a properly completed apex, avoiding wobble-induced rounding/slurry dulling, and proper burr removal. That's it... If you aren't able to achieve these results, you need to go back and figure out how, because your edges aren't 'there'. 

- Steampunk


----------



## gadgetguy9000 (Jul 6, 2020)

Illyria said:


> The paper test is okay, because it might show you a dull spot that you missed?
> 
> But yeah, in most places that I've worked (world 50 best places, 2-3 Michelin stars, James beard, etc.) it's rare to see someone go past a 1k stone.



The OP probably doesn’t need to shave with the knife. He is using its ability to shave as a benchmark for the edge he is after.

To talk about “need” seems a bit silly, on a site like this. A sharp Forschner or two is all you _need_ to make just about any meal efficiently.

Murray Carter, who knows a fair bit about sharpening, uses a blade’s ability to shave as a test

To the OP: is it possible your edge is convexed? Try to change the angle of the edge vs the light and see if is flat. If it is, you might try a higher grit stone to get the edge you are after.


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 6, 2020)

Steampunk said:


> Edge tests like these are canaries in a mineshaft... If an edge cannot shave hair along the whole length, you can feel it hang-up on things like peppers or tomatoes, or increased resistance/risk of sliding off when you go to dice/mince a shallot... If it cannot pass these tests, it's a sign that there's something fundamentally wrong with the edge, because you should be able to shave hair (Not well enough to avoid irritation on the face, but enough to remove arm and leg hair without irritation.) down to maybe 500 grit on dense water stones, or maybe even lower on diamond plates... These are far from being 'over refined' , or 'delicate' edges.
> 
> I've seen Japanese sharpeners test their edges against the hair at the back of their head, to feel whether it slides off of it, or grips onto it... The 'Grip' is a good sign of how the edge will bite rather than slide on an ingredient.
> 
> ...


Great input sir! I wish you offered a mobile sharpening service


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 6, 2020)

gadgetguy9000 said:


> The OP probably doesn’t need to shave with the knife. He is using its ability to shave as a benchmark for the edge he is after.
> 
> To talk about “need” seems a bit silly, on a site like this. A sharp Forschner or two is all you _need_ to make just about any meal efficiently.
> 
> ...


True, its so frustrating after really carefully maintaining the angles (supposedly) and ending up with a poor result after 10 minutes or so


----------



## panda (Jul 6, 2020)

i use cutting actual food as a benchmark


----------



## gadgetguy9000 (Jul 6, 2020)

panda said:


> i use cutting actual food as a benchmark


Testify!

Not particularly helpful information to the OP, however, who wants an edge that is capable of shaving.


----------



## Kawa (Jul 6, 2020)

To me the pictures show a little white line above the edge, about 0,5-1mm
Could be your intended micro-edge, but my guess it's that this is your unintened 'rounding' the edge. On pictures like this, where you have to find a good light spot for the picture, it (almost) looks the same.
This is achieved by stropping with too much pressure, or you use a too high angle.

Test it like this:
Is your knife performing how you want it to be after your last whetstone? 
No -> back to grinding
Yes -> now strop
Is it still as sharp or sharper after stropping?
Yes -> good job
No -> Something bad happens when you strop, since it was sharp after your last whetstone.

For me, stropping makes the knife sharper in a way is feels more refined through newspaper. less of a SSSSSST noice...more silent... but the initial bite remains the same.
If i strop with a too high angle, the bite disappears.


----------



## Jville (Jul 6, 2020)

You should definitely be able to shave arm hair coming off a 6k - even less. That's pretty basic especially with a good 1k edge. Im not saying this for sure, but maybe you have a bunch of tiny, tiny micro chipping and the edge isn't clean. I've had this with knives before where they were so small along the edge, but the edge still wasn't a clean edge. And paper is a super basic test. If you can't cut paper your knife is dull. I would maybe retry sharpening on the 1k until you get a burr. Are you checking the whole edge for a burr? And also be really careful on the 6k. Maybe just start off doing light stropping being really mindful of your angle. You could also just try stropping it on a the 6k to see if it comes back. Maybe you sort of rounded it off on the 6k. But if it didn't shave or at least cut paper on the 1k then that edge was never right. I've shaved off a shapton 320 before. I 've had some knives that I wasn't shaving on the 1k and still ended up with good edges at the end, but if it's not at least cutting paper something is very wrong. Like some already said a 1k can be a great working edge for the kitchen. It should 100 percent be able to cut paper.


----------



## ian (Jul 6, 2020)

panda said:


> i use cutting actual food as a benchmark



IMO, the benefit of the paper test is that it's quick and that you can always use the exact same material. If you just test on food, it's hard to tell whether a change in the particular product you're using that time is influencing the test. Plus, a lot of us at home don't have an infinite amount of produce to use for test cuts. With paper, you can just do a couple slices and be done. If I cut up an onion, then I lose a whole onion and have much more to clean up! I mean, I guess I can save the onion for dinner later or something, but then I have to think about how I want to prep the onion while I'm sharpening, and I'd much rather keep the sharpening and the food prep separate. But mostly, the constancy of the material is what's important.

I always slice some paper towel to test for any residual burr. It's always right there on my counter, and if I sense there's any burr left, I'll deal with it and then slice the paper towel again to see if it's still there. Since it's same material, it's easy to tell when the burr disappears. And it's quick, easy, and clean.


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 6, 2020)

Steampunk said:


> Edge tests like these are canaries in a mineshaft... If an edge cannot shave hair along the whole length, you can feel it hang-up on things like peppers or tomatoes, or increased resistance/risk of sliding off when you go to dice/mince a shallot... If it cannot pass these tests, it's a sign that there's something fundamentally wrong with the edge, because you should be able to shave hair (Not well enough to avoid irritation on the face, but enough to remove arm and leg hair without irritation.) down to maybe 500 grit on dense water stones, or maybe even lower on diamond plates... These are far from being 'over refined' , or 'delicate' edges.
> 
> I've seen Japanese sharpeners test their edges against the hair at the back of their head, to feel whether it slides off of it, or grips onto it... The 'Grip' is a good sign of how the edge will bite rather than slide on an ingredient.
> 
> ...



I'm with him  

*adding just that any knife can shave even after very low grits, ~100. Some easier, it's true. I just showed this about 2h ago, 150 grit. It's obvious that's not about shaving itself. It's about pressure and consistency.


----------



## MowgFace (Jul 6, 2020)

ian said:


> ...Plus, a lot of us at home don't have an infinite amount of produce to use for test cuts.



Sacrifice to science!


----------



## Steampunk (Jul 6, 2020)

Antiboost said:


> Great input sir! I wish you offered a mobile sharpening service



It was not my intention to offer only an explanation of _why_ a shaving sharp edge is needed, and not also how to help diagnose what might be happening with your edges... Unfortunately I was called away before I could complete this. My apologies...

Regarding your edges, I'm guessing the issue is either not fully apexing, or the edge becoming convexed from either slurry dulling or a soft stone deforming from too much pressure being used. The glint off the apex still looks a little wide in your (Very helpful!) USB scope images.

Don't feel bad if you're still relatively new to sharpening, and your edges aren't shaving sharp within 10-minutes. It used to take me maybe 1-2 hours per knife during the early days to get a shaving edge on some of the more frustrating stainless steels using rudimentary stones... It was constantly a process of trying, then testing, then trying again, then testing again, in small increments until I figured out what was wrong with my technique. It took awhile before my times started dropping, and I didn't have to diagnose as much with every blade... This is the reality of sharpening. It takes time... 

Here are some possible solutions, besides just practice... 

Firstly, I'm guessing that you're using a King 1/6K combo? Even inexpensive stones can get great results, but sometimes the more expensive ones can make your job easier; especially when you're starting out. It actually takes more skill to sharpen with more primitive stones... Better stones cut faster, which gives you less time for creating wobble-induced problems, and medium-firm stones are more forgiving of technique than super soft/muddy or super-hard/glassy ones. Getting something like a Gesshin 1K/6K might make it a little easier to get good results fast. 

Secondly, I notice some faceting on your edge, with some lower-grit scratches just before the very apex (Which almost looks micro-beveled? It might just be that it hasn't truly apexed, or is slurry-dulled.)... This means the edge isn't being transcribed and fully refined at one continuous angle... I'd get your bevel cut-in with a coarser or faster stone, generate a good burr on one side, then the other, and with NO PRESSURE (Lift the knife to take pressure off of it. Hold the handle in your fingertips if that's what it takes.) alternate strokes to deburr. Use edge leading on hard stones, and edge trailing on soft at first, until your muscle memory is locked-in enough you can do edge leading on all but the muddiest stones. Try to get the edge fully deburred, and able to shave at 1K. If you can't, do one strop each side with NO PRESSURE on the 6k, raising the angle very slightly (Better yet, use an angle gauge! A block of wood or plastic cut at a specific angle does the trick, and return to it periodically. This will help your body learn to hold the knife at a consistent angle.)... It's not the best solution, but one that might get you fully deburred until you can do it on coarser stones.

Keep experimenting with the above... Take a less expensive knife to you don't mind practicing on, and keep repeating the above until it can shave at 1K. Spend all evening at it if you have to. Then just repeat with 6K, once the 1K edge is where you want it. I'm guessing your problem is either slurry dulling, rounding from stone compression, or failing to fully apex before or after burr removal.

Hope this helps... 

- Steampunk


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 6, 2020)

Steampunk said:


> It was not my intention to offer only an explanation of _why_ a shaving sharp edge is needed, and not also how to help diagnose what might be happening with your edges... Unfortunately I was called away before I could complete this. My apologies...
> 
> Regarding your edges, I'm guessing the issue is either not fully apexing, or the edge becoming convexed from either slurry dulling or a soft stone deforming from too much pressure being used. The glint off the apex still looks a little wide in your (Very helpful!) USB scope images.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for the massively helpful indepth assistance. I've got a Shapton 1000 thats just arrived from Japan. It came in two pieces though 70/30 split. They're letting me keep it so will try it tonight tge other was a generic Amazon Chinese made. I was thinking of getting the Naniwa instead. If after an hour still struggling will upload a video


----------



## Jville (Jul 6, 2020)

Antiboost said:


> Thanks again for the massively helpful indepth assistance. I've got a Shapton 1000 thats just arrived from Japan. It came in two pieces though 70/30 split. They're letting me keep it so will try it tonight tge other was a generic Amazon Chinese made. I was thinking of getting the Naniwa instead. If after an hour still struggling will upload a video


The shapton pro 1k is very good imo, especially for beginners. Shapton pros was my first set of Stones and the 1k Shapton pro is still my most used beginning stone, love it.


----------



## daveb (Jul 6, 2020)

While I appreciate the OP's tenacity (and wish him the best), he's not looking for an edge that is capable of shaving, he's looking for one that looks good to the Utube masses.


----------



## gadgetguy9000 (Jul 6, 2020)

I read the OP’s intent as trying to get guidance on what might be going wrong with his sharpening.


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 6, 2020)

Indeed. Still, going with something like Shapton Pro 1000 won't improve sharpening, will just hide the problems for a while. But to each his own, I guess.


----------



## Xenif (Jul 6, 2020)

gadgetguy9000 said:


> I read the OP’s intent as trying to get guidance on what might be going wrong with his sharpening.







__





Media - An available desirable knife to review


I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on a kind of most wished for knife. I want to create some Youtube content, and finding the right knife starting out would help. I like traditional Gyuto lasers from what I've read, but yet to handle one. No specialist retailers in Notts as far as I'm aware.




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





Nope, YouTube quality for sure!


----------



## Tim Rowland (Jul 6, 2020)

I'm sure how ever sharp you have in now will still allow you to slice through a pineapple all ninja style for your tens of youtube followers.


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 6, 2020)

Ok, I just died a bit. I need to read more forum.


----------



## Steampunk (Jul 6, 2020)

daveb said:


> While I appreciate the OP's tenacity (and wish him the best), he's not looking for an edge that is capable of shaving, he's looking for one that looks good to the Utube masses.



Seriously?!?! He's not worthy of being helped by his peers on a forum supposedly dedicated to enjoying sharp kitchen knives?!?!

Let's say he wants to be a YouTube influencer... A lot of these people demonstrate their gratitude by crediting their source if they've had a good experience learning. Wouldn't that be a great boost for the KKF, and its viewership/advertising revenue? You're a mod, so this is part of your job: helping to promote the forum, and maintain a positive atmosphere...

Instead, this makes for an atmosphere where newbies aren't welcomed, and all that's left are a few crabby members taking pot-shots at the world until there aren't enough members left to justify the hosting bills.

If someone is 'beneath your dignity' to reply to, you have the discretionary powers to leave it to others to respond and spend your time some other way, but for the love of all that's sharp and shiny, why post what you did?!?!

You're an experienced member of this forum... You've got skills, you've got experiences with lots of knives and stones, you've been spending your life trying to figure out how to use them. You're valuable. I've read your posts, and found them helpful... You could help this person, or if your wisdom thought him unworthy, leave him alone, but you decided to try to denigrate his merit in trying to learn. Is he a YouTuber? Does it matter!?!?

Someone wanted to learn. This is the right forum.

- Steampunk


----------



## gadgetguy9000 (Jul 6, 2020)

Yeah, the attacks seem odd and counterproductive, to say the least.


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 6, 2020)

I imagine the problems started here 




__





Media - An available desirable knife to review


I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on a kind of most wished for knife. I want to create some Youtube content, and finding the right knife starting out would help. I like traditional Gyuto lasers from what I've read, but yet to handle one. No specialist retailers in Notts as far as I'm aware.




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## daveb (Jul 6, 2020)

Steampunk said:


> Seriously?!?! He's not worthy of being helped by his peers on a forum......
> - Steampunk



You've made a long list of assumptions here, each predicated upon the previous one being true. Have you given any thought to the possibility that you might be wrong?

I've gotten over the "Rickyness" of the OPs quest and do appreciate his determination and wish him well. 

But.

He's asking what time it is and some are trying to teach him build a watch.


----------



## ian (Jul 6, 2020)

I dunno. The OP is obsessing about sharpening and looking at his edges with a USB microscope. Seems like he might want to build a watch. Let’s help him.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 6, 2020)

ian said:


> I dunno. The OP is obsessing about sharpening and looking at his edges with a USB microscope. Seems like he might want to build a watch. Let’s help him.


----------



## Steampunk (Jul 6, 2020)

daveb said:


> You've made a long list of assumptions here, each predicated upon the previous one being true. Have you given any thought to the possibility that you might be wrong?
> 
> I've gotten over the "Rickyness" of the OPs quest and do appreciate his determination and wish him well.
> 
> ...



You know what... I'm okay if I'm wrong. I'm okay if I'm giving more than was desired, but I doubt it, because time was put into asking the question. I just want to help someone who asked for help trying to learn to sharpen. If you've been down this road before, and don't want to repeat what you felt was folly, that's okay... It's not my first day, either. It's just a bad standard to set for a specialist forum, when anyone asks a question, and finds more abuse than help. It makes us look more like truly rank snobs, rather than passionate enthusiasts.

A lot of us build watches to know what time it is, because that's what it takes... We spend a lot of money on stones and knives to cook food that most people don't care what tools they use to make. We do. It's why we're on KKF. We like the details of the tools to make food.

Trying to get shaving-sharp edges, that are relatively easily obtained on many commonly used stones, isn't obsessive. Using a USB microscope helps to see what the eye cannot, when trying to diagnose problems, which - while geeky - is actually not a stupid thing to do. Other edge-tool enthusiasts do so commonly... 

I don't find 'Ricky' (The well known YouTube influencer) to be any more of a credible source for quality info in the field of knives and sharpening than you do, but at the same time, anyone who says "Hey, I don't know how to do this... Please help me." is humbling themselves... It deserves some respect, and being humble - or at least circumspect - oneself in response. Not knowing and wanting to learn is a very good thing. One doesn't have to drop excrement from on high upon such people... The 'Ricky's' of this world end up teaching the next generation, so it behooves us to try to make sure they are educated. If this individual wants to be a YouTuber, great... I hope he tells the story of us being helpful, rather than us being the unpleasant elitists that we have possibly become.

We need new blood. We can't bully them if we want them to be part of the generation who appreciates nice things in the kitchen, and learns how to take care of them. 

- Steampunk


----------



## panda (Jul 6, 2020)

does anyone else find it hilarious ending each post with a dash stating their alias?

- panda


----------



## labor of love (Jul 7, 2020)




----------



## GoldCoastMitch (Jul 7, 2020)

Hey guys!!! As a newbie to the forum I can attest that it’s a bit frightening to ask for the help I truly want. Maybe we can post a resource center of our own that has useful content (videos, etc....) for members to learn without needing to feel like dummies.


----------



## panda (Jul 7, 2020)

labor of love said:


> View attachment 86403


why you use bruce rhee face?


----------



## Jville (Jul 7, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> Hey guys!!! As a newbie to the forum I can attest that it’s a bit frightening to ask for the help I truly want. Maybe we can post a resource center of our own that has useful content (videos, etc....) for members to learn without needing to feel like dummies.


Ask away with your questions man. People generally are very helpful. Some people gave him a hard time because of the youtube angle that he began with. I think when you come in not knowing anything and you are focused on teaching or showing yourself as very knowledgeable and qualified to give advice, it rubs people the wrong way and it's often hard to take that person seriously. The op is thick skinned though and can take some shots, which I think won some people over. But you don't want to be stiff necked


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 7, 2020)

It's all Ryky's fault with his wall of knives making people crazy.


----------



## Jville (Jul 7, 2020)

kayman67 said:


> It's all Ryky's fault with his wall of knives making people crazy.


Although, when I look at Labor's post, he really does look like a bad a**. All you need is to have him holding to ks gyutos in an X, and you are talking Chuck Norris level.


----------



## Xenif (Jul 7, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> Hey guys!!! As a newbie to the forum I can attest that it’s a bit frightening to ask for the help I truly want. Maybe we can post a resource center of our own that has useful content (videos, etc....) for members to learn without needing to feel like dummies.



Since everyone comes here with a diffrent skill level, that becomes hard. Most of the time people here are very helpful, remember though, half the time it is HOW you ask your question that dictates how people react to your post.


----------



## Jville (Jul 7, 2020)

Xenif said:


> Since everyone comes here with a diffrent skill level, that becomes hard. Most of the time people here are very helpful, remember though, half the time it is HOW you ask your question that dictates how people react to your post.


True dat!


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 7, 2020)

Xenif said:


> Since everyone comes here with a diffrent skill level, that becomes hard. Most of the time people here are very helpful, remember though, half the time it is HOW you ask your question that dictates how people react to your post.


"I'm new. I want to learn."
We'll help.

"I want to be like Ryky!"


----------



## Jville (Jul 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> "I'm new. I want to learn."
> We'll help.
> 
> "I want to be like Ryky!"


I mean can you really blame people for not wanting to help create a Rickystein.


----------



## gadgetguy9000 (Jul 7, 2020)

panda said:


> why you use bruce rhee face?


How does a thread like this turn racist?

Well done, ambassador to new members!


----------



## daveb (Jul 7, 2020)

Your first Panda?


----------



## GoldCoastMitch (Jul 7, 2020)

I totally understand where you’re all coming from. After watching many YouTube videos the impression I get is that there is almost always a commercial angle included. I suppose that can’t be helped. 

The videos from JKI, Murray Carter and Korin feel the most authentic, even though among those there are some differences of opinion.

My needs for maintaining good sharpness are far less than wanting to shave. I’m a cook. I want to have a reliable tool to make my experience easier and more enjoyable.

That said, I sincerely care about my knives. It didn’t take long for me to discover that my electric sharpener was doing more damage than good. I’m now a proud owner of Atoma 140, SG320, and Chosera400, 800 and 3000. Sharpened my first few with mixed results, but I can see this is the right path for me.

Being as I live in close proximity to Manhattan, do you think that any of the better sharpening services might allow me to observe them in person? Thanks for your help


----------



## Barmoley (Jul 7, 2020)

Jon's (JKI) videos are very, very helpful. Ultimately it takes time and practice. Like any skill the more you work at it the better it gets. At the moment I am struggling with a folder that has a pretty curvy edge, not recurve or anything but a continuous curve. Sharpening on a bench stone is proving to be more difficult than I thought it would be. Just saying this because I thought I had sharpening mostly figured out, not pro level, but good enough. Not with this folder though


----------



## gadgetguy9000 (Jul 7, 2020)

daveb said:


> Your first Panda?


So, offensive messages are okay if they are frequent enough?

How do you imagine this sort of racist crap would appear to a young Asian chef? Or any young person? Or lots of non-young people?

Some will dismiss it, but there is a profound change occurring, and this sort of nonsense is seen much more readily for the rascist bs that it is.

As the moderator it is in your power to shape the tone of the forum.

To the OP:
I found Murray Carter’s early video, exDVD, now on youtube, very helpful


----------



## ian (Jul 7, 2020)

gadgetguy9000 said:


> How do you imagine this sort of racist crap would appear to a young Asian chef?



I suppose we could ask panda.


----------



## parbaked (Jul 7, 2020)

Yeah...Koreans shouldn't be allowed to make fun of Bruce Lee!!


----------



## parbaked (Jul 7, 2020)

ian said:


> I suppose we could ask panda.


He specifically said young Asian....


----------



## ian (Jul 7, 2020)

I thought panda was making some sort of high brow pun combining Bruce Lee and Ryky into Bruce Rhee (ky), as a commentary on how Ryky has had a similar mass market appeal in the knife world as Bruce Lee had in martial arts.

Edit: it’s possible I’m reading too much into this.


----------



## ian (Jul 7, 2020)

parbaked said:


> He specifically said young Asian....



****. If panda is old that means I’m old too. When did that happen?


----------



## gadgetguy9000 (Jul 7, 2020)

So, yeah, he’s Asian - so what?

Personally, I don’t subscribe to the notion that someone can say anything they want, rascism-wise, if they are of the race they are referencing.

I can see that this forum has turned into the sort of sad circle jerk club that will shrink and die.

Seems a shame.


----------



## soigne_west (Jul 7, 2020)

Barmoley said:


> Jon's (JKI) videos are very, very helpful. Ultimately it takes time and practice. Like any skill the more you work at it the better it gets. At the moment I am struggling with a folder that has a pretty curvy edge, not recurve or anything but a continuous curve. Sharpening on a bench stone is proving to be more difficult than I thought it would be. Just saying this because I thought I had sharpening mostly figured out, not pro level, but good enough. Not with this folder though



Small little folders are hard for me too. Especially in some of those alloy steels.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 7, 2020)

parbaked said:


> He specifically said young Asian....


Ageist!


gadgetguy9000 said:


> So, yeah, he’s Asian - so what?
> 
> Personally, I don’t subscribe to the notion that someone can say anything they want, rascism-wise, if they are of the race they are referencing.
> 
> ...


Chris Rock made a stand-up career mocking not only his own ethnicity, mocking white people also.


----------



## ian (Jul 7, 2020)

gadgetguy9000 said:


> So, yeah, he’s Asian - so what?
> 
> Personally, I don’t subscribe to the notion that someone can say anything they want, rascism-wise, if they are of the race they are referencing.
> 
> ...



I agree with your point about racism. After all, one person of a certain race is not all people of that race, so they can’t dictate what is offensive unilaterally. I don’t really know what panda’s point was, though, so I’m not going to try to second guess him. And I’m not Asian, so I feel a little uncomfortable weighing in on an argument about whether an Asian said something racist toward Asians.... (not to combine Koreans and Chinese people). But maybe more racially qualified people can weigh in, as there are many of them on this forum. 

Not sure you’ll win many people over to your point of view by calling everyone part of a sad circle jerk though.


----------



## Rodin326 (Jul 7, 2020)

Antiboost said:


> Can anyone help me? I've got my angles down now having been using whetstone for a month or so. I have a 1000 and 6000 combo stone.
> I seem to get to a point where I can cut vegetables well but paper and shaving goes wrong.
> I think it might be the stopping strokes but I got a USB microscope and there's no burr as far as I can see.View attachment 86275
> View attachment 86276
> ...


I didn't notice you mention a good strop after sharpening. Just a layman's perspective but stropping after a sharpening session has definitely improved my edges from where they were just on the stones. Good luck in your pursuit!!


----------



## Nemo (Jul 7, 2020)

It's worth looking at the knifepalnet.net sharpening series as well:





__





Peter Nowlan's Knife Sharpening School - Free Online Sharpening Course


My name is Peter Nowlan and I am the owner and sharpener of New Edge Sharpening located in Nova Scotia, Canada. I started sharpening knives by hand decades ago and I served thirty six years in the Royal Canadian Navy. The fact that I started my sharpening journey back before I joined the Navy...




www.knifeplanet.net





Some people like Kippington's deburring technique. I like it especially for high alloy steels but it also works on simple steels if you were planning to use a microbevel on them.






Kippington Deburring Video


Good morning team! I am trying to find the thread where Kippington posted a video showing a quick way he deburs that is different than the regular ways people deburr. I found it in google once but I can't seem to find it again. Also, what do you guys think about the pros and cons of this...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





A strop can make a knife better at shaving. Cutting food... I'm not so sure. I used to use balsa loaded with diamond. Softer stropping substrates can round your edge if you push too hard but many have success with them. Jeans work surprisingly well. Cereal box cardboard (the non-printed side) is great, with or without loading. Newspaper is pretty good too.


----------



## ian (Jul 7, 2020)

soigne_west said:


> Small little folders are hard for me too. Especially in some of those alloy steels.


+1, although I haven’t tried in quite some time.


----------



## Tim Rowland (Jul 7, 2020)

..................quit looking for racism, sexism, exclusisms, prejudices, biases, and phobias in every single aspect of your daily life. How much undo stress and anxiety do you give yourself on a daily basis because of things that you perceive.
Panda posted a picture with a funny quote to go along with it. Get over it. If that type of thing hurts your little feelings than maybe the internet is not your safe space. 
I read tons of stuff daily that I don't find funny......I just keep scrolling and move on with my day. Try it sometime.

Back to the thread....I tried to follow the directions of how to make a watch, a little unclear, dick is now stuck in toaster.


----------



## SeattleBen (Jul 7, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> I totally understand where you’re all coming from. After watching many YouTube videos the impression I get is that there is almost always a commercial angle included. I suppose that can’t be helped.
> 
> The videos from JKI, Murray Carter and Korin feel the most authentic, even though among those there are some differences of opinion.
> 
> ...




You can always ask, most of those places will have some sort of offer for classes ranging from $50-300.


----------



## parbaked (Jul 7, 2020)

ian said:


> Not sure you’ll win many people over to your point of view by calling everyone part of a sad circle jerk though.



Virtual or Zoom jerk would be more appropriate given the current climate...


----------



## Barmoley (Jul 7, 2020)

As much as I am against gadgets and sharpening systems. I might need to acquire something like a sharp maker for these freaking folders as well as small hunting type blades. I haven't given up yet, but damn....

As far as racism and all that, what are you guys even talking about? Stop finding issues where there are none. Seriously, not everything is an offence and death sentence to the forums. Soon we won't be able to make fun of anything, or say anything, even those pesky wrong handed people that want all knives to be ruined for them. I bet they want symmetrical cups and plates too.


----------



## BillHanna (Jul 7, 2020)

gadgetguy9000 said:


> SUMMARY
> 
> I’m not interested in Panda’s ****.


There’s always the ignore function. Lord knows I’ve used it to skip people for a few days.


----------



## ian (Jul 7, 2020)

BillHanna said:


> There’s always the ignore function. Lord knows I’ve used it to skip people for a few days.



Woah, genius! I never knew that existed.


----------



## BillHanna (Jul 7, 2020)

Barmoley said:


> even those pesky wrong handed people that want all knives to be ruined for them. I bet they want symmetrical cups and plates too.


How dare you. At least I’m in my right brain. Nothing sinister about THAT.


----------



## panda (Jul 7, 2020)

gadgetguy9000 said:


> So, offensive messages are okay if they are frequent enough?
> 
> How do you imagine this sort of racist crap would appear to a young Asian chef? Or any young person? Or lots of non-young people?
> 
> ...


you're super annoying.


----------



## BillHanna (Jul 7, 2020)

Long lost brothers, finding each other.


----------



## panda (Jul 7, 2020)

ian said:


> I thought panda was making some sort of high brow pun combining Bruce Lee and Ryky into Bruce Rhee (ky), as a commentary on how Ryky has had a similar mass market appeal in the knife world as Bruce Lee had in martial arts.
> 
> Edit: it’s possible I’m reading too much into this.


i thought this was obvious, i'm sure youre not the only one who made this connection right away. dont mind the crying wolf shenanigans.


----------



## TSF415 (Jul 7, 2020)

Everyone needs to put their big boy (or girl) pants on and talk about knives.


----------



## BillHanna (Jul 7, 2020)

Hey @Antiboost! Have you gotten closer to shaving over the past 24+ hours?


----------



## panda (Jul 7, 2020)

i'm just gonna leave this here, my favorite music video to share


----------



## Jville (Jul 7, 2020)

panda said:


> you gotta say non binary and not assume orientation either. that's what sea said.


Oops, my bad


----------



## Nemo (Jul 7, 2020)

OK people, this thread is getting out of hand.

That's enough off- topic borderline trolling.

On topic posts only now please.

Only gonna ask nicely once.


----------



## Nemo (Jul 7, 2020)

Take your ideological wars to another platform. Maybe Twitter?

STOP POLLUTING THIS THREAD NOW.

Last warning.

Hopefully there is no lack of clarity here.


----------



## panda (Jul 7, 2020)

such a good song


----------



## Nemo (Jul 7, 2020)

panda said:


> such a good song



I'm gonna take that as a Panda way of sayin that we are on the same page.


----------



## kayman67 (Jul 8, 2020)

GoldCoastMitch said:


> I totally understand where you’re all coming from. After watching many YouTube videos the impression I get is that there is almost always a commercial angle included. I suppose that can’t be helped.
> 
> The videos from JKI, Murray Carter and Korin feel the most authentic, even though among those there are some differences of opinion.
> 
> ...



You don't have to chase this. It just happens. The ability to shave hair is a given at any grit I have ever tried, if the apex is well done. It won't only if someone would "work" against it in more ways than one, as you might imagine. Otherwise, it just will. It's a side effect rather than a goal.
Also, absolutely any sharpening techniques would have the same outcome, I have tried them all. And the alloy is irrelevant, too. It's a matter of how difficult. Same with blade length and so on. 
But if it won't cut hair, well, it's rather irrelevant or less problematic than, let's say, a very bad geometry. Up to a point at least. Beyond that it's a serious thing to consider just how far from sharpness it really is.


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 8, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Ageist!
> 
> Chris Rock made a stand-up career mocking not only his own ethnicity, mocking white people also.


Ask Kev about that one. One of the funniest scenes on the American Office. Kevin killed the scene and Michael had to take over.


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 8, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> "I'm new. I want to learn."
> We'll help.
> 
> "I want to be like Ryky!"


I think in Ryky's early videos he seemed sincere, helpful and down to earth. I really enjoyed many. I'm sure that Ryky helped thousands of people in their quest for knife knowledge. Something changed in his later videos imho , he seems disingenuous now and corrupted. I think he must be bankrolled by select manufacturers and suppliers.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 8, 2020)

Antiboost said:


> I think in Ryky's early videos he seemed sincere, helpful and down to earth. I really enjoyed many. I'm sure that Ryky helped thousands of people in their quest for knife knowledge. Something changed in his later videos imho , he seems disingenuous now and corrupted. I think he must be bankrolled by select manufacturers and suppliers.


Dalstrong.


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 8, 2020)

BillHanna said:


> Hey @Antiboost! Have you gotten closer to shaving over the past 24+ hours?


Well after using my protractor I realised I had been using too sharp an angle. When I carefully and slowly maintained a 15° angle I created what I think is a micro bevel?
Anyway it took 30 minutes as its a hard VG10?? 5" Chinesium knife. 
I'm going to get put some softer knives.


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 8, 2020)

Rodin326 said:


> I didn't notice you mention a good strop after sharpening. Just a layman's perspective but stropping after a sharpening session has definitely improved my edges from where they were just on the stones. Good luck in your pursuit!!


I was trying to do the whetstone final strop. Where you just use alternative strokes with the knife weight alone.


----------



## daveb (Jul 8, 2020)

Antiboost said:


> I think he's whored himself to select manufacturers and suppliers.



FTFY


----------



## labor of love (Jul 8, 2020)

Has anyone else ever noticed the phenomenon that people in business tend to recommend products that they sell?


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 8, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Has anyone else ever noticed the phenomenon that people in business tend to recommend products that they sell?


I have noticed that too, its normal however i think its wrong when they review with negative bias products they don't sell or are not sponsored by. Especially on YouTube with no hint of sponsorship deals or being a distributor etc.


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 8, 2020)

daveb said:


> FTFY


Back at you buddy


----------



## labor of love (Jul 8, 2020)

I’m not so sure about that.


Antiboost said:


> I have noticed that too, its normal however i think its wrong when they review with negative bias products they don't sell or are not sponsored by. Especially on YouTube with no hint of sponsorship deals or being a distributor etc.


He reviews things positively all the time that he doesn’t sell. He also reviews things negatively all the time that he doesn’t sell. To have a bias is natural.


----------



## daveb (Jul 8, 2020)

Antiboost said:


> Back at you buddy




I'm thinking Fixed That For You. I too old to have considered other meanings......


----------



## TSF415 (Jul 8, 2020)

I've concluded that people need to pick up additional hobbies. There is way too much emotion being invested into this thread.


----------



## Jville (Jul 8, 2020)

daveb said:


> I'm thinking Fixed That For You. I too old to have considered other meanings......


I thought you meant F*** Those F***ing YouTubers.


----------



## ian (Jul 8, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> I've concluded that people need to pick up additional hobbies. There is way too much emotion being invested into this thread.



Perhaps we can start a thread about shaving? Seems like there’s lots of razor people here. I’d like to learn, as I’ve been having some trouble with it recently.... I just need a thread title.


----------



## Jville (Jul 8, 2020)

ian said:


> Perhaps we can start a thread about shaving? Seems like there’s lots of razor people here. I’d like to learn, as I’ve been having some trouble with it recently.... I just need a thread title.


Call it ShaveTube, maybe we can post some videos.


----------



## TSF415 (Jul 8, 2020)

ian said:


> Perhaps we can start a thread about shaving? Seems like there’s lots of razor people here. I’d like to learn, as I’ve been having some trouble with it recently.... I just need a thread title.


Maybe..... Not For Profit Shaving or Share Shaving Tips Without Caring About My Life or I'm Just Here to Shave


----------



## Jville (Jul 8, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> Maybe..... Not For Profit Shaving or Share Shaving Tips Without Caring About My Life or I'm Just Here to Shave


I like "I'm just here to shave." Couple others- Behave while you shave, or All I Do is Shave, Shave, Shave no mater What! Or Can't We All Just Shave Along.


----------



## esoo (Jul 8, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> Maybe..... Not For Profit Shaving or Share Shaving Tips Without Caring About My Life or I'm Just Here to Shave



you mean no influencer cred, no free manufacturer products to hawk, how would we get those views?


----------



## TSF415 (Jul 8, 2020)

esoo said:


> you mean no influencer cred, no free manufacturer products to hawk, how would we get those views?



Well if he were to choose Share Shaving Tips Without Caring About My Life, than he could could receive useful information and do what he wants with it.

In a thread full of trolls, Im just trolling down the middle. I can care less about the amount of feelings people have in this thread. Sure some may be valid but who f**king cares. If someones a douche than don't share information with them but you aren't making any type of difference in the world by bashing him on a knife forum.


----------



## ian (Jul 8, 2020)

I thought I was trolling you all with a reference to a new “Can’t shave!” thread, but in the end it was I who was trolled. Your skills are formidable. I bow to your wit and dexterity.


----------



## daveb (Jul 8, 2020)

"Close Shave" Hosted by Sasquatch

Produced by Gillette
Sponsored by Gillette

Season 1, Episode 1
Review of new Gillette razor!
Which Gillette shaving cream is right for you?
Why dummies use Schick.
Electrified by Norelco!


----------



## Antiboost (Jul 8, 2020)

daveb said:


> I'm thinking Fixed That For You. I too old to have considered other meanings......


I'm very sorry I didn't realise what it meant in your context. I just Google it and it came up as a negative remark im not familiar with the acronym at all.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 8, 2020)

ian said:


> Perhaps we can start a thread about shaving? Seems like there’s lots of razor people here. I’d like to learn, as I’ve been having some trouble with it recently.... I just need a thread title.





ian said:


> I thought I was trolling you all with a reference to a new “Can’t shave!” thread, but in the end it was I who was trolled. Your skills are formidable. I bow to your wit and dexterity.







__





lets have a new razor thread.


i'm thinking about trying shaving with razors again. so i dusted off the old iwasaki swedish steel kamisori and sharpened it up. and now its sharp as fuk. just like it was before i sharpened it :) difference being that i sharpened it on the shapton pro12k and also the SS 12k, instead of the...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## ian (Jul 8, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yea, I don’t actually need a shaving thread. I need another thing to obsess about like I need a rabid raccoon in my yard.


----------



## soigne_west (Jul 8, 2020)




----------



## ian (Jul 8, 2020)

soigne_west said:


> View attachment 86547



Unconscionable! This must be what they mean by the “lamestream media”.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 8, 2020)

ian said:


> Yea, I don’t actually need a shaving thread. I need another thing to obsess about like I need a rabid raccoon in my yard.


Natural Stones. PEBKAC. YouTube personality. Social media influencer. Go all A Beautiful Mind.


----------



## ian (Jul 8, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Natural Stones. PEBKAC. YouTube personality. Social media influencer. Go all A Beautiful Mind.


----------



## Nemo (Jul 8, 2020)

soigne_west said:


> View attachment 86547


I didn't realise that there were possums in the 'Sates.


----------



## ian (Jul 8, 2020)

Nemo said:


> I didn't realise that there were possums in the 'Sates.



There was one on my deck last week while we were eating dinner out there. Tons of raccoons in the trees too. Not so many feral hogs in Boston, although maybe soon the raccoons will import some for their war.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 8, 2020)

Nemo said:


> I didn't realise that there were possums in the 'Sates.


Yup, Los Angeles has them.


----------



## daveb (Jul 8, 2020)

I think Washington will be renaming their football team the Possums after the Redskins debacle. Seems fitting.


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 8, 2020)

daveb said:


> I think Washington will be renaming their football team the Possums after the Redskins debacle. Seems fitting.


Possum Redskins instead of D.C. Redskins?


----------



## panda (Jul 9, 2020)

daveb said:


> FTFY


totally thought this meant
f this, f u

don't even get me started on this whole name change nonsense. redskins are my team ever since I've been a fan of football, I am quite agitated over this!!


----------



## Ryndunk (Jul 9, 2020)




----------



## Ruso (Jul 9, 2020)

I shave balls, tennis balls, to test my edges.


----------



## TSF415 (Jul 9, 2020)

The team sucks, the owner sucks, there’s not much about them that doesn’t suck.
Maybe with a name change to something players are more comfortable with they’ll play better.... meh, probably not.

And all the poor fans who are going to need to buy new gear..... it’s for the best, get rid of that crap and buy some gear of a team that doesn’t suck.


----------



## parbaked (Jul 9, 2020)

They were a great organization before Snyder bought them....


----------



## aaamax (Jul 9, 2020)

I am actually impressed. 
This thread proves to me that this forum is still about as good and civil as one can reasonably hope for in this age of the anonymous web.

This was as about as heated of an exchange as I have ever seen here. And you know what, there was still no real anger. Gotta luv it. Go to any other forum and you'll have a tough time not seeing all the mud being slung in a *really *ugly fashion on a daily basis.

So cheers to all involved, even in this thread.


----------



## ian (Jul 9, 2020)

aaamax said:


> I am actually impressed.
> This thread proves to me that this forum is still about as good and civil as one can reasonably hope for in this age of the anonymous web.
> 
> This was as about as heated of an exchange as I have ever seen here. And you know what, there was still no real anger. Gotta luv it. Go to any other forum and you'll have a tough time not seeing all the mud being slung in a *really *ugly fashion on a daily basis.
> ...



This post makes me feel threatened and insecure. I personally attack you in the worst possible fashion, calling you out on your ancestry and the size and intelligence of your loved ones, not because I am confident that you will feel shamed, but because I need to distract and defend myself from the pain I feel.

Edit: but yea, if KKF was like the other forums you mentioned, I wouldn’t be here


----------



## M1k3 (Jul 9, 2020)

I like turtles.


----------



## Jville (Jul 9, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I like turtles.


Meh


----------



## panda (Jul 9, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> The team sucks, the owner sucks, there’s not much about them that doesn’t suck.
> Maybe with a name change to something players are more comfortable with they’ll play better.... meh, probably not.
> 
> And all the poor fans who are going to need to buy new gear..... it’s for the best, get rid of that crap and buy some gear of a team that doesn’t suck.


there's no way in hell im getting new gear, i have 5 sean taylor jerseys.


----------



## panda (Jul 9, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I like turtles.


only the ninja kind


----------



## panda (Jul 9, 2020)

Ryndunk said:


> View attachment 86576


it even has an upside down chief feather, LMAO


----------



## Michi (Jul 10, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I like turtles.


There's good eating on those…


----------



## Tim Rowland (Jul 10, 2020)

MMMMMMMMmmmmmmm, Turtle


----------



## ian (Jul 10, 2020)

Tim Rowland said:


> MMMMMMMMmmmmmmm, TurtleView attachment 86671



Who’s snapping now, b****??


----------



## Ruso (Jul 10, 2020)

Tim Rowland said:


> MMMMMMMMmmmmmmm, TurtleView attachment 86671


This made me sad  .


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy (Jul 10, 2020)

Ruso said:


> This made me sad  .


Me too.


----------



## ModRQC (Jul 10, 2020)

I sharpen my knives so bad that last time I went for a shaving test my hair shrieked and went directly under my skin. Didn't see one come back since.

Since the same knives cut food stuff so well, I decided not to pursue them.


----------



## TSF415 (Jul 10, 2020)

panda said:


> there's no way in hell im getting new gear, i have 5 sean taylor jerseys.


I will not disrespect a Sean Taylor jersey. Luckily for you it's one of the handful of jerseys that anyone can wear. You don't need to suffer being a redskins fan to wear a Sean Taylor jersey.


----------



## panda (Jul 10, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> I will not disrespect a Sean Taylor jersey. Luckily for you it's one of the handful of jerseys that anyone can wear. You don't need to suffer being a redskins fan to wear a Sean Taylor jersey.


i take it youre a niners fan. kittle is my favorite TE by far, of all time. shockey @ #2


----------



## stringer (Jul 18, 2020)

ian said:


> Perhaps we can start a thread about shaving? Seems like there’s lots of razor people here. I’d like to learn, as I’ve been having some trouble with it recently.... I just need a thread title.



There is a thread about sharpening straight razors in the sharpening subforum.


----------



## ian (Jul 18, 2020)

stringer said:


> There is a thread about sharpening straight razors in the sharpening subforum.



Heh, I know. I was making a joke about the title of the current thread. I’ve enjoyed your contributions to the shaving thread tho.


----------

