# Ouch!



## Marko Tsourkan (May 31, 2012)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/this-...-was-utterly-demolished-by-student-loans.html


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## Taz575 (May 31, 2012)

Where I work, it's over $50,000 a year for students. No guarantee of a job either and most of the majors they offer are liberal arts. Film, Dance, Painting, Language degrees, writing degrees, etc. Not exactly high paying entry level jobs! My college was $13,500 per year for everything, plus I received a half tuition scholarship and took student loans. My loans were around $105 a month, which isn't bad at all paid over 10 years and I am only a few months away from finishing them off!!

Imagine taking $200,000 in loans and having to repay that in 10 years with interest??? That's like buying a house and paying it off in 10 years, but at a much higher interest rate!

I feel for the people out there like this, but it's the loan industry that is even more messed up!


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## James (May 31, 2012)

Taz575 said:


> Imagine taking $200,000 in loans and having to repay that in 10 years with interest??? That's like buying a house and paying it off in 10 years, but at a much higher interest rate!



Unfortunately many soon to be doctors and dentists do that.


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## Seth (May 31, 2012)

The only good thing about being older is that a college degree cost the same as four good knives. The bad thing is watching my daughter rack up 50K/year. At least she will be a doctor when she is done. I already get valuable advice from her: she looked at an MRI and said "Dad, you are f%cked" I love my daughter!


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## Lucretia (May 31, 2012)

There's just something wrong with all this. I just checked out tuition at my alma mater (Georgia Tech)--a not half-bad engineering school. it's pretty consistently ranked in the top 5 engineering schools in the US. In state tuition this fall will run about $10K/year. Out of state--about $28K/yr. Yeah, you'd still have to cover room and board, not exactly cheap in Atlanta, but still...make it through and you will be employable, and while you might never be rich, you can be comfortable. (Assuming you can afford health care.) And there are scholarships and loans available. Why are some of these colleges so freaking expensive?!?! $10-30,000 a year is an awful lot of money, but $50K? For a degree that might make you feel warm and fuzzy, but will land you a job delivering pizza? 
:viking:

The loan companies are to blame in part, but some of the fault belongs to the students. Having a job you love is great; heck, having a job you can TOLERATE is great. If underwater basket weaving is your calling, fine. But you've got to be realistic about the lifestyle you can afford and be prepared to pay the bills.



I'll stop ranting now.


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## Lucretia (May 31, 2012)

Seth said:


> The only good thing about being older is that a college degree cost the same as four good knives.



+1


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## Gravy Power (May 31, 2012)

That's insane. I graduated from an AAU University, which I attended for 5 1/2 years, with only 25k in debt. Granted that was 12 years ago, but I pretty much took out the max every semmester. But a 17.9% variable interest rate? My student loans have been locked in at 4.62% for ten years. Yikes.


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## Andrew H (May 31, 2012)

[RANT]
The student loan crisis has had some very sad cases, but as a whole the issue is very overplayed. Only 3% of students have loans over 100k, the plurality of students have under $10k in loans. 
The NYT article that came out recently was disappointing. Of course if you go to a private college without a scholarship you are going to come out with excessive debt. There are plenty of opportunities, you don't have to box yourself into a corner by going to a school that will make you take on loans. It's also important that students are smart with their money and budgeting. I read an article recently that talked about students that get credit card debt before maxing out their student loans! 
That's not to say that is isn't hard for many people, but the community suffers as a whole when it is referred to as a "crisis." Hopefully it doesn't scare off people from going to an affordable college. 
[/RANT]


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## 99Limited (May 31, 2012)

You know, you can't tell kids sh!t. They think they know what they're doing and as a parent you want to give them the freedom to make their own choices when they're at that age. It's too bad these kids get sucked into the hype some colleges spew out. I'm glad that when my wife decided to go back to school to get her MBA we were able to pay cash.


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## mhlee (May 31, 2012)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/this-...-was-utterly-demolished-by-student-loans.html



That's why I never went to culinary school, even though I got in to the FCI (NY). I already had $120k+ in graduate school loans. 

But, I crunched the numbers and realized that I couldn't live unless I made at least $50,000 a year, so I couldn't even apply for public interest jobs - it was the private sector or starve. I chose not to starve. 

But, almost 15 years in, I have less than $30,000 in loans left, and I'll be done in 5 years. If I had made a few better choices as far as jobs go, I could be done by now. But at least I'm not like many others who are struggling to make ends meet.


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## mhlee (May 31, 2012)

Gravy Power said:


> That's insane. I graduated from an AAU University, which I attended for 5 1/2 years, with only 25k in debt. Granted that was 12 years ago, but I pretty much took out the max every semmester. But a 17.9% variable interest rate? My student loans have been locked in at 4.62% for ten years. Yikes.



I think that has to do with the school. IIRC, trade schools do not qualify for the lowest interest rates. Most universities do not have such high rates. 

My graduate school loan rates are less than 4% right now. I recall there was a spike in interest rates in the early 2000's, but recent legislation, I thought, reduced those rates.


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## mhlee (May 31, 2012)

James said:


> Unfortunately many soon to be doctors and dentists do that.



Add lawyers, MBA grads to that and extend the length out to 20 years. Most graduate school loans that I'm aware of are 15 to 20 years.


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## Lucretia (May 31, 2012)

Several things about the article really put a knot in my tail. The kid had an opportunity to get dad to pay for a degree--but he didn't love it, and dropped out his sophomore year. Translation: Waaaah! School is HARD!!!!! He signed up with a place that offered immediate gratification--"only 12 months of study and a 3 month externship". He took out large loans "and they LIED to me!" Did he read the freaking paperwork? Or did he just blindly sign where he was told? He got his first job--in his field, and above minimum wage--but it didn't pay what he thinks someone with his exalted skills and education deserves. Guess he hasn't heard of paying your dues. And just how much did he think he'd earn? Sallie Mae offered a little relief--but it wasn't good enough. He can't pay "his rent"---not "his part of the rent". Must be nice to have an apartment with no roomates. Oh, and don't even try to pay your debts--just wait, and Congress will allow you to declare bankruptcy and all the rest of us will have to pay for it. 

My sister has 4 kids. She and her husband bust their butts at work, live in a small old house, drive an old car, take public transportation. The kids went to public school and state colleges on scholarship. The kids have always had jobs, bagging groceries, whatever they could do to earn some extra money, and worked hard to get good grades. Now the oldest has a PhD and is a pharmacist, the next is at Princeton working on his PhD in engineering with a full scholarship and stipend, the 3rd is starting at Cal Tech this year for his PhD in engineering with full scholarship and stipend, and the last is finishing up his master's degree in social work this year. None of the kids have loans--they've done it all by hard work, going to public schools, and ferreting out any scholarship they could get. But you won't read any articles about them. And they'll get screwed since they've earned what they got when other kids get their loans forgiven.


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## mhlee (May 31, 2012)

Lucretia said:


> Several things about the article really put a knot in my tail. The kid had an opportunity to get dad to pay for a degree--but he didn't love it, and dropped out his sophomore year. Translation: Waaaah! School is HARD!!!!! He signed up with a place that offered immediate gratification--"only 12 months of study and a 3 month externship". He took out large loans "and they LIED to me!" Did he read the freaking paperwork? Or did he just blindly sign where he was told? He got his first job--in his field, and above minimum wage--but it didn't pay what he thinks someone with his exalted skills and education deserves. Guess he hasn't heard of paying your dues. And just how much did he think he'd earn? Sallie Mae offered a little relief--but it wasn't good enough. He can't pay "his rent"---not "his part of the rent". Must be nice to have an apartment with no roomates. Oh, and don't even try to pay your debts--just wait, and Congress will allow you to declare bankruptcy and all the rest of us will have to pay for it.
> 
> My sister has 4 kids. She and her husband bust their butts at work, live in a small old house, drive an old car, take public transportation. The kids went to public school and state colleges on scholarship. The kids have always had jobs, bagging groceries, whatever they could do to earn some extra money, and worked hard to get good grades. Now the oldest has a PhD and is a pharmacist, the next is at Princeton working on his PhD in engineering with a full scholarship and stipend, the 3rd is starting at Cal Tech this year for his PhD in engineering with full scholarship and stipend, and the last is finishing up his master's degree in social work this year. None of the kids have loans--they've done it all by hard work, going to public schools, and ferreting out any scholarship they could get. But you won't read any articles about them. And they'll get screwed since they've earned what they got when other kids get their loans forgiven.



+1

If you want to pursue your dream, you better be prepared to deal with all the s**t that comes with it.


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## Deckhand (May 31, 2012)

Lucretia said:


> Several things about the article really put a knot in my tail. The kid had an opportunity to get dad to pay for a degree--but he didn't love it, and dropped out his sophomore year. Translation: Waaaah! School is HARD!!!!! He signed up with a place that offered immediate gratification--"only 12 months of study and a 3 month externship". He took out large loans "and they LIED to me!" Did he read the freaking paperwork? Or did he just blindly sign where he was told? He got his first job--in his field, and above minimum wage--but it didn't pay what he thinks someone with his exalted skills and education deserves. Guess he hasn't heard of paying your dues. And just how much did he think he'd earn? Sallie Mae offered a little relief--but it wasn't good enough. He can't pay "his rent"---not "his part of the rent". Must be nice to have an apartment with no roomates. Oh, and don't even try to pay your debts--just wait, and Congress will allow you to declare bankruptcy and all the rest of us will have to pay for it.
> 
> My sister has 4 kids. She and her husband bust their butts at work, live in a small old house, drive an old car, take public transportation. The kids went to public school and state colleges on scholarship. The kids have always had jobs, bagging groceries, whatever they could do to earn some extra money, and worked hard to get good grades. Now the oldest has a PhD and is a pharmacist, the next is at Princeton working on his PhD in engineering with a full scholarship and stipend, the 3rd is starting at Cal Tech this year for his PhD in engineering with full scholarship and stipend, and the last is finishing up his master's degree in social work this year. None of the kids have loans--they've done it all by hard work, going to public schools, and ferreting out any scholarship they could get. But you won't read any articles about them. And they'll get screwed since they've earned what they got when other kids get their loans forgiven.



+1 
Refused education from dad, then technical school with ridiculous loans, now tax payers are giving him $1600 a month disability while he states he has no choice but to be homeless. Just checked studio apartments in Ohio for $450 a month without a roommate. No wonder his dad is fed up. No mention of drinking or drug habits etc. Yes, I try to have empathy for others and help where I can. But my help usually goes to people like the recent honor student that was jailed for truancy because she was working two jobs to support her family. I have received occasional help from my dad in life, but if I am not busting my a$$ then I know no help will be offered and wouldn't think it was owed to me. I worked overtime all the way through nursing school, while donating plasma,driving on my spare tire much of the time.and many times other teachers and students would help feed me. Graduated top of my class and first to take and pass the board exam. I used to go to school so tired from work i wore my hiking boots by accident to school one day instead of the nursing shoes. I had a wife and my first son on the way. I had no room for excuses. Even when help is offered I don't behave with a sense of entitlement, but with gratitude.


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## Lucretia (May 31, 2012)

All that said, if these companies are giving loans to people who obviously can't pay them, the loan company should eat the losses.


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## Johnny.B.Good (May 31, 2012)

Lucretia said:


> All that said, if these companies are giving loans to people who obviously can't pay them, the loan company should eat the losses.



Agreed.

Why should my tax dollars go to a private loan company?

The whole thing is outrageous.


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## WildBoar (May 31, 2012)

Many people seem to have a casual attitude about repaying their student loans. Surely that must contribute to some lenders charging credit card-like interest rates. You have to cover your losses somehow. And then it becoms a viscious cycle, as the higher the rates are that you charge, the more people who will likely default.


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## mr drinky (May 31, 2012)

I agree with Andrew H that a lot of this loan stuff overplayed. And private schools that are often showcased for their super high tuitions/fees also heavily discount their tuition depending upon the student's financial aid situation and academic merit. Students seldom pay the 'sticker price' and discount rates are often in the 40% range. 

With that said, I read once that that legally there was no way to make a person pay back a student loan because to garnish a person's wages was within the definition of indentured servitude, which is illegal in the US. This is why punishment was (and is) often indirect: bad credit, confiscating tax refunds, can't get new loans etc. Nowadays, however, they allow garnishment of wages (usually 10%) and if you google "indentured student," you will get many hits. 

Just saying.

k.


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## Deckhand (May 31, 2012)

mr drinky said:


> I agree with Andrew H that a lot of this loan stuff overplayed. And private schools that are often showcased for their super high tuitions/fees also heavily discount their tuition depending upon the student's financial aid situation and academic merit. Students seldom pay the 'sticker price' and discount rates are often in the 40% range.
> 
> With that said, I read once that that legally there was no way to make a person pay back a student loan because to garnish a person's wages was within the definition of indentured servitude, which is illegal in the US. This is why punishment was (and is) often indirect: bad credit, confiscating tax refunds, can't get new loans etc. Nowadays, however, they allow garnishment of wages (usually 10%) and if you google "indentured student," you will get many hits.
> 
> ...



Interesting terminology indentured servitude by law is considered slavery by the UN. It seems up to 50% garnishment for child support and garnishment of seniors social security are being done. I am sure there are more examples. Also, if you owe too much debt you can now be limited on acquiring a passport.


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## Cipcich (May 31, 2012)

Generally speaking, one should pay one's debts, however they are incurred. I recall that while gambling debts were not legally collectible, the trick was not to let someone lose more than they could realistically be expected to pay. Then, after a long night, you would take the loser to breakfast, on the way to his bank. Non-payment was not an option.

Even in the real world, if you don't pay your debts, bad things can happen; i.e., no one will give you stuff on credit anymore, or you lose your house. But that is all easily foreseeable. People who borrow lots of money at exorbitant rates are essentially gamblers. Most gamblers don't have a lot of sense, but they have high hopes.


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## Lucretia (May 31, 2012)

What kills me is the way banks throw money at some people. My next door neighbor walked away from his house on a short sale and went directly to a new house with another mortgage. Banks should have kicked him to the curb.


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## WildBoar (May 31, 2012)

^^ I don't think that is very common. Maybe he got a new mortgae before the short sale went through? I knew a few loan officers, and it is unbelieveable how hard it is to get loans approved these days, even for people with plenty of money to put down and great credit.


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## JohnnyChance (May 31, 2012)

The article forgot to mention how him starting culinary school piqued his interest in high end kitchen knives and soon his addiction for boutique cutlery caused him to stop paying his bills and loans.


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## Eamon Burke (Jun 1, 2012)

The guy should have to struggle if he decided to drop out, pay a Scrooge McDuck amount of cash to go to sauce college, then only work one part time job. Thats called acting like a dumbass.


But struggling to make ends meet because you are crippled in a freak accident and CAN'T work? Thats called "undue hardship".


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## Andrew H (Jun 1, 2012)

BurkeCutlery said:


> The guy should have to struggle if he decided to drop out, pay a Scrooge McDuck amount of cash to go to sauce college, then only work one part time job. Thats called acting like a dumbass.
> 
> 
> But struggling to make ends meet because you are crippled in a freak accident and CAN'T work? Thats called "undue hardship".



Look at Eamon pulling out his legal terms.


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## Eamon Burke (Jun 1, 2012)

JohnnyChance said:


> The article forgot to mention how him starting culinary school piqued his interest in high end kitchen knives and soon his addiction for boutique cutlery caused him to stop paying his bills and loans.



Hey, thats job equipment!

Three $50k loans:
1. Pierre Francois' Parisian Institut Gastronomiq
2. The lifestyle he's grown accustomed to
3. Kramer


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## Tristan (Jun 1, 2012)

Seth said:


> The only good thing about being older is that a college degree cost the same as four good knives. The bad thing is watching my daughter rack up 50K/year. At least she will be a doctor when she is done. I already get valuable advice from her: she looked at an MRI and said "Dad, you are f%cked" I love my daughter!



Man, anyone on this forum could have told you the same for the cost of 4 cold ones!


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