# Audiophile journey



## Garner Harrison (Apr 19, 2020)

Hey guys and gals!

As a beginner I just wanted to know more about the audiophile world through everyone else experiences with audio equipment and how awesome their own audio set ups are! Would love to see photos 

So Ill start with my journey with it so far. I have always wanted to get into better and better audio equipment to help me enjoy my music better which I think is a common reason to get into it. So I did a ton of research and review watching and settled on my Schiit Magni/Modi stack with the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD-6xx headphones. When I first heard the headphones with the Schiit stack I was blown away at the clarity and beauty of vocals I was hearing although upgrading did set me back a bit because some songs now sound lifeless or muddled which I assume is due to bad recording or the characteristics of the headphones. Probably should have stated this eariler but I moved up from the Audio technica ATH-M50x.










Now, Im looking at my upgrade paths because Im terrible with my money  Im thinking of purchasing some Audeze headphones in the future, particularly the Audeze LCD-X which sound like the perfect headphones for me because I do find my current ones the HD-6xx to be fatiguing over time.

So, lets hear about you guys now! I am also down for music recommendations with your audio gear stories as I listen to anything from piano solos, 80's rock & roll and Mongolian metal


----------



## rob (Apr 19, 2020)

This is another hobby of mine. I’d like to call myself more of a music lover and record collector. I am in my late 40’s and have had a very keen interest in audio since my mid teens.

if there is any interest in this topic I will add my journey at another time.


----------



## Garner Harrison (Apr 19, 2020)

Those wooden speakers look amazing, I have never seen speakers like those!  @rob


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Apr 19, 2020)

Center channel on top of two massive subs. That can't be optimal. Focal's are nice aren't they? Are those monsters Tannoy Westminsters(?)

You must have a very understanding SO


----------



## M1k3 (Apr 19, 2020)

Or no SO?


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Apr 19, 2020)

I have Aerial Acoustics CC5, 10T's and SR3's in the dedicated HT. I sometimes switch out the CC5 for a Von Schweikert VisiUN center as I try to decide which I want to keep. For 2 channel listening I have these high sensitivity KCS speakers with special Japanese Fostex drivers.


----------



## rob (Apr 19, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Center channel on top of two massive subs. That can't be optimal. Focal's are nice aren't they? Are those monsters Tannoy Westminsters(?)


Speakers are Tannoy Westminster, i only run 2 channel L&R with the two subs for music. Multi channel for movies and such uses 2 other subs, you can just see one in the far left corner.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Apr 19, 2020)

Are the magnets shielded? I was thinking that might be an issue rather than the vibration.


----------



## gregfisk (Apr 19, 2020)

I too am very much into highend audio. I have a 20’x30’ old detached garage that I turned into a 2 channel audio space. Running a Lampizator dac with volume control and a couple of different amps. I have custom built open baffle speakers that are truly amazing to me. Each speaker has two 12” servo subs and a 12” coaxial on top. Source is a macmini running audirvana over iTunes. Love the Tannoys Rob. I also have a pair of Ariel 7b speakers in my surround sound system.


----------



## gregfisk (Apr 19, 2020)

Here’s a picture of my space.


----------



## gregfisk (Apr 19, 2020)

Garner, the Schiit stack is well liked for the headphone guys. They just keep getting better. I’m not into cans myself but I get why people like them. Here’s a picture of my Lampi dac and one of my amps. I have more room treatment now and finally got some curtains.


----------



## Garner Harrison (Apr 20, 2020)

That's a serious audio setup, was expecting to see a TV or projector of some sorts in there but there's none. I wish I will be as hardcore about my music in the future as that seems like a really fun experience!  

How do the tubes sound? I hear they colour and make the music more enjoyable to listen to but you have to find the ones you like. I want to try them out but they are a bit outside my price range for just an amp that might not go well with every headset I own. 

@gregfisk


----------



## Garner Harrison (Apr 20, 2020)

Also advice on some small speakers for my PC would be nice for casual Youtube, music and movie watching since there seems to be a ton of speaker heads here


----------



## rob (Apr 20, 2020)

Audioengine A5 are great value for money.


----------



## AFKitchenknivesguy (Apr 20, 2020)

I'm keenly watching this as I love high end audio. Rob put me to shame, I have decent stuff but that's awesome.


----------



## Garner Harrison (Apr 20, 2020)

@AFKitchenknivesguy Then SHOW us your stuff!!


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

I worked off and on in highend audio, mostly as a second job, from the 1970s until about 2000. My system is sort of in flux at the moment. We moved from a larger house with a fairly big listening room into a smaller house with less space. I'm trying to figure out whether to try to shoehorn the old system in or to downsize and possibly get out of vinyl entirely. The old primary system is a mixture of ARC, Ayre, Green Mountain Audion, and Roksan gear. It mostly dates from the 1990s. The only thing currently up and running is my desktop system which consists of Emotiva powered monitors and a Grace Design DAC+headphone amp.

My listening is all over the map: lots of jazz mostly Bebop forward to current outside jazz, rock and singer/songwriters (the line between the two genres is fuzzy at best), R&B, classical (mostly Baroque and 20th C), blues and traditional folk, and real C&W (not the crap on modern "country" radio). The only genres I don't listen to much are metal, hiphop (neither wear well for me) and prog (only in carefully selected and limited doses). 

I'm not a cans guy but life situations are pushing me in that direction so input on headphones or in-ear would be appreciated. I'm curious about the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD6xx phones although circa mid-to-late 1990s I found the "Sennheiser veil" difficult to tolerate, however, I've never heard the HD600s, HD650/6xx, or the HD660S. $500 would be the upper end of my headphone/earphone budget.


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

i run a roksan nima tonearm, i want a xerxes!

grado rs-1 paired well with grace dac-amp. look into audio techinca ad2000 as well


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

panda said:


> i run a roksan nima tonearm, i want a xerxes!




I have a Xerxes X with upgrades, the big external supply and Artemiz arm.


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

i also use roksan cartridge, the chorus.
i think you would definitely like the grado rs-1, right around your budget. dont even bother with senn hd600, thats going to bore you to death.


----------



## parbaked (Apr 20, 2020)

Garner Harrison said:


> How do the tubes sound? I hear they colour and make the music more enjoyable to listen to but you have to find the ones you like. I want to try them out but they are a bit outside my price range for just an amp that might not go well with every headset I own.



Tube amps are great fun, but I, thankfully, never got into collecting and rolling expensive tubes.
I focused on makers that would build circuits around obscure, inexpensive tubes often using vintage transformers and parts. All my amps were handmade by one person, just like how I prefer my knives.
Here's a few:

OTL headphone amp made by 2359glenn in NC. Glenn is a superb engineer, who's well known for making very expensive 300B amps but he started with simple OTL design. There are a few enthusiasts in AU with his amps.
This is perfect amp for your HD6XX phones. This thing sounds great with $30-$50 worth of tubes:





The original Spud amp by Jef Larson (Abraxas Audio) using 6197 or 6CL6 tubes and driving headphones or speakers:





EL84 amp by Lance Cochrane using transformers from a vintage Conn electric organ. The Mullard rectifier was one of the few precious tubes I owned.





300B speaker amp by Sean Casper using C3m input tubes.





Type 45 amp by Attilio Caccamo and the boys at Tektron outside of Catania Italy. One of the few shops the wind their own transformers in house...next level. Unfortunately my output transformer was too heavy for the copper top plate and it bent in transit from Italy...sad!





This was my office set up running vintage VTL electronics; Rega turntable and CD and Spendor S3/5 monitors:


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

still have rega tt, had an io dac at one point.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

Garner Harrison said:


> How do the tubes sound? I hear they colour and make the music more enjoyable to listen to but you have to find the ones you like. I want to try them out but they are a bit outside my price range for just an amp that might not go well with every headset I own.



IME there really isn't much of definable tube sound. IME most tube amps are colored, euphonically colored perhaps but still colored, while others are almost indistinguishable from solid state (arguably just colored in a different way). IME very few tube amps manage to preserve the tube magic* without adding significant coloration. Some products from Nagra and some from Atma-Sphere are among the best I've encountered but I haven't heard all the ARC amps and preamps or most 21st C products from C-J, VAC, Air Tight, Lamm, Cary...
Generally speaking tube circuits are easier to repair than solid state but the tubes/valves do deteriorate with use and require periodic replacement (generally not inexpensive).

*I would define tube magic as an almost palpable sense of realism, an amazingly effective simulacra of a physical performer(s) in the room with you, provided that the rest of the system is also very good. Some of the very best solid state gear comes very, very close to achieving that same sense of realism and may better tubes in other ways.


----------



## parbaked (Apr 20, 2020)

These Grado HP-1000 were the OG audiophile headphones.
Handmade in Brooklyn by the late, great Joseph Grado.
Shown with the "portable" HPA-2 amp.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

panda said:


> still have rega tt, had an io dac at one point.



I never really loved the Rega speakers but the TTs and tonearms are great value. I'd love to hear the Planar 10 with P10PSU. The Rega amps have been good performance per dollar too. On the digital side I spent a great deal of time with earlier generations of the Apollo CD player but not so much the DACs. I need to catch up on DAC technology as I haven't heard current generation of Chord or Ayre gear, the Mytek Brooklyn or the Schiit Yggdrasil.


----------



## parbaked (Apr 20, 2020)

Part of the journey are the nutty characters that devoted their lives to making the best audio equipment.
Two of my favorite were Joesph Grado and David Manley...RIP

Grado checking out an iPod.





David Manley being David Manley


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> I never really loved the Rega speakers but the TTs and tonearms are great value. I'd love to hear the Planar 10 with P10PSU. The Rega amps have been good performance per dollar too. On the digital side I spent a great deal of time with earlier generations of the Apollo CD player but not so much the DACs. I need to catch up on DAC technology as I haven't heard current generation of Chord or Ayre gear, the Mytek Brooklyn or the Schiit Yggdrasil.


i really liked the little standmount rega r1 speaker, very good cheaper alternative to naim n-sat
i use mytek dac96, but it currently has a blown fuse.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

panda said:


> i really liked the little standmount rega r1 speaker, very good cheaper alternative to naim n-sat
> i use mytek dac96, but it currently has a blown fuse.



My Rega speaker experience is mostly with the floor standers and, once again, somewhat out of date. Circa '80s & '90s I did not love the Naim, Linn, or Rega speakers. I tended to prefer the Quad ESLs and the UK speakers that hewed closer to the BBC sound: selected Spendor, Rogers, ProAc, and Wilson Benesch designs. I haven't heard all the Harbeths (notably not the Super HL5+ which I suspect I might like) but in general I found them a bit too buttoned down sounding. If I radically downsize I will probably try to catch up on small stand monitors.


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

i had atc scm7 for a while, tiny speakers but heavy as hell and very difficult to drive, but packed quite a punch.


----------



## Adam_M (Apr 20, 2020)

There's an incredible DIY world in speakers - as well as speakers sold by DIY'ers at heart who now run businesses.

One of the best is Dennis Murphy, the owner of the now closed Philharmonic Audio. He's a crossover maestro, and simply priced his speakers too low and couldn't keep up with the demand. As such, his most successful model, the BMR, is now available in kit form from Meniscus Audio and fully built out at salksound.com. Alternatively, if you can come across one of his affordable accuracy monitors (used only I'd suspect at this point) you'll be in for a real treat at the pricepoint. 

Anything that SalkSound sells will be a gem. Dennis has also handled many of the crossovers for Salk's speakers from my understanding, and Salk's woodworking is truly second to none. 

If you want to go endgame and have a little bit of space, just get a pair of Linkwitz LX521's. They were designed by one of the giants of the audio scene, Siegfried Linkwitz - in fact the most common used crossover topology (basically any multi-driver speaker will use it) is called a Linkwitz-Riley crossover. They require 8-10 channels of amplification, a dedicated DSP or ASP, and a not insignificant amount of money to purchase, but I've truly never heard a better speaker in my life. 

I have opinions on amplifiers that will be in conflict with the tube amps pictured above, so I'll stay quiet on those.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

panda said:


> i had atc scm7 for a while, tiny speakers but heavy as hell and very difficult to drive, but packed quite a punch.



I've never heard any of the ATCs but lots of people loved their big active speakers. Did they sound anything like the PMCs?


Adam_M said:


> There's an incredible DIY world in speakers - as well as speakers sold by DIY'ers at heart who now run businesses.
> 
> One of the best is Dennis Murphy, the owner of the now closed Philharmonic Audio. He's a crossover maestro, and simply priced his speakers too low and couldn't keep up with the demand. As such, his most successful model, the BMR, is now available in kit form from Meniscus Audio and fully built out at salksound.com. Alternatively, if you can come across one of his affordable accuracy monitors (used only I'd suspect at this point) you'll be in for a real treat at the pricepoint.
> 
> ...



The problem with the DIY speaker scene is that it is difficult to audition them. Even if you can go into an owner's home, unless they are a close and local friend, you don't know the room or the system so it isn't easy to parse out what is doing what in the reproduction chain. Others may have different opinions but I wouldn't want to deal with returning speakers after a home trial unless they were LS3/5a size or smaller. With very, very rare exceptions I just don't buy audio gear without some thorough auditioning.


----------



## ExistentialHero (Apr 20, 2020)

Adam_M said:


> There's an incredible DIY world in speakers - as well as speakers sold by DIY'ers at heart who now run businesses.
> 
> One of the best is Dennis Murphy, the owner of the now closed Philharmonic Audio. He's a crossover maestro, and simply priced his speakers too low and couldn't keep up with the demand. As such, his most successful model, the BMR, is now available in kit form from Meniscus Audio and fully built out at salksound.com. Alternatively, if you can come across one of his affordable accuracy monitors (used only I'd suspect at this point) you'll be in for a real treat at the pricepoint.
> 
> ...



I'm running the Linkwitz-designed LX-Mini (with crossover implemented in software) at home and it's a remarkable speaker. I've never had the pleasure to hear an LX521, but I have no doubt that it's the endgame


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> I've never heard any of the ATCs but lots of people loved their big active speakers. Did they sound anything like the PMCs?
> 
> 
> The problem with the DIY speaker scene is that it is difficult to audition them. Even if you can go into an owner's home, unless they are a close and local friend, you don't know the room or the system so it isn't easy to parse out what is doing what in the reproduction chain. Others may have different opinions but I wouldn't want to deal with returning speakers after a home trial unless they were LS3/5a size or smaller. With very, very rare exceptions I just don't buy audio gear without some thorough auditioning.


Yeah, a more neutral pmc one could say. Had such beautiful mid-range.


----------



## esoo (Apr 20, 2020)

this thread makes me think I should get around to figuring out what went wrong with the power switching on this:






Cavalli Audio EHHA rev A Tube/Mosfet Headphone amp. I was one of the original testers on it.


----------



## WPerry (Apr 20, 2020)

Woof. Mixed feelings opening this thread. It's been 6 or 7 years, but I worked in the industry, at a couple of the most prominent, stupidly-high-end shops in the country. Picked up a mish-mash of gear (another Xerxes owner, here) over the years and got to know some really good people. Some things I miss, others I don't (FWIW, my crew and I used the term "audiophile" a bit derisively; to us, an audiophile was someone that had stopped listening to music and instead listened to gear - those are not people that I miss). 

For the curious, the heart of my primary system is a Conrad-Johnson tube preamp, a White Audio Labs power amp and a pair of DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 9 loudspeakers (also FWIW, John DeVore is one of the really good guys in the industry - we keep tabs in that facebook/instagram way, but he's certainly among the friends that I miss).


----------



## Pachowder (Apr 20, 2020)

I have gone old school...i am currently running a modded Thorens TD125mkii through a Macintosh C34V pre-amp and two Mcintosh MC2100 amps. The Macintosh gear has all gone through audio classics in NY to now exceed specs. For speakers I have Spatial M3 Triode Masters. They are different in that they are open baffle but when you get placement right, are awesome. You need some room behind and next to them...

Also have a restored Sansui 9090, restored Sansui au-717 and a Yamaha A-S2000...not as high end as many but some of this vintage gear restored sounds unreal...


----------



## Adam_M (Apr 20, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> I've never heard any of the ATCs but lots of people loved their big active speakers. Did they sound anything like the PMCs?
> 
> 
> The problem with the DIY speaker scene is that it is difficult to audition them. Even if you can go into an owner's home, unless they are a close and local friend, you don't know the room or the system so it isn't easy to parse out what is doing what in the reproduction chain. Others may have different opinions but I wouldn't want to deal with returning speakers after a home trial unless they were LS3/5a size or smaller. With very, very rare exceptions I just don't buy audio gear without some thorough auditioning.



I hear you on the audition, but there is a subset of the small manufacturers that are relatively easy to resell (Salk among them) because of long waiting lists for certain models. You have to trust the maker, crossover designer and enclosure designer, but it is easy if you know their reputations (sound familiar to the host hobby of this site....?). There is of course a chance you don't like it and you move it along. The lx521's are a bit tougher to resell given the investment...


----------



## Adam_M (Apr 20, 2020)

ExistentialHero said:


> I'm running the Linkwitz-designed LX-Mini (with crossover implemented in software) at home and it's a remarkable speaker. I've never had the pleasure to hear an LX521, but I have no doubt that it's the endgame



It's incredible. If you get it out far enough into the room, they image like no speaker I've ever heard. When I finished them, I ran them through their paces and I was over 105dB continuous in room (measured with a callibrated microphone) before I realized and turned it down to save my ears. No audible distortion. And they sound just as good playing Pink Floyd as they do a Bach cello suite with only 1 instrument on the whole recording.

Oddly enough, I'm building the lxmini as we speak as a secondary system.


----------



## Adam_M (Apr 20, 2020)

QUOTE="Pachowder, post: 693650, member: 1126"]
I have gone old school...i am currently running a modded Thorens TD125mkii through a Macintosh C34V pre-amp and two Mcintosh MC2100 amps. The Macintosh gear has all gone through audio classics in NY to now exceed specs. For speakers I have Spatial M3 Triode Masters. They are different in that they are open baffle but when you get placement right, are awesome. You need some room behind and next to them...

Also have a restored Sansui 9090, restored Sansui au-717 and a Yamaha A-S2000...not as high end as many but some of this vintage gear restored sounds unreal...
[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more on open baffle. The lx521's are also open baffle. The higher up in frequency you get the dipole response, the higher up the magic goes. Linkwitz and John k. (NaO speakers) have done a lot of work on the theory and execution.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

WPerry said:


> Woof. Mixed feelings opening this thread. It's been 6 or 7 years, but I worked in the industry, at a couple of the most prominent, stupidly-high-end shops in the country. Picked up a mish-mash of gear (another Xerxes owner, here) over the years and got to know some really good people. Some things I miss, others I don't (FWIW, my crew and I used the term "audiophile" a bit derisively; to us, an audiophile was someone that had stopped listening to music and instead listened to gear - those are not people that I miss).



"Audiophile" wasn't exactly an accolade at the shops I worked for either. We semi-regularly saw the two ends of the spectrum: the guys (almost always guys) with thousands of records, and **** systems and the guys whose "music collection" totaled about thirty LPs & CDs all of them Sheffields or other ghastly crap but with many thousands of dollars invested in hifi equipment. The first group we were somewhat sympathetic to although we cringed at the often nasty turntables/tonearms/cartridges, the second group not so much. The tweakers (in the audio sense not the drug sense) could also be quite irritating as could the sometimes overlapping group who wanted to turn equipment auditions into dick measuring contests. There were a number of really nice guys, and some interesting characters, in the industry and many of our customers were great. I miss the good people and the industry accommodations but there is plenty that I don't miss.


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

speaking of vintage, who here has heard linn isobariks? those speakers gave me goosebumps.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

panda said:


> speaking of vintage, who here has heard linn isobariks? those speakers gave me goosebumps.



Sorry, no love for the Isobariks here. One of the shops I worked for was among the first Linn Sondek LP-12 dealers in country and we sold quite a few but we didn't do much with speakers or amplification. Eventually the importer kind of gave us an all in or get out ultimatum and flew us to their offices/warehouse to make the case. The audition of their reference system did not go well. While the tri-amped Isobariks did some things very well in our collective opinion they did some other important things very badly. Isobariks definitely do have their ardent partisans so chalk it up to different tastes.
Among my "goosebump" systems were variations on the Levinson HQD sytem, the Beveridge Model 2, and the Sequerra Pyramid Metronome with the T1 ribbon tweeter (lots of "jump" like the Isobarik but IIRC a better speaker system IMO). Most of the insanely expensive speaker systems (>$18k/pr)I have heard were ultimately at least slightly disappointing to me.


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

lp12 is too finicky and their amps suck, but naim amp with isobariks were just excellent. 

as far as 'blow me away speakers' i'm more about the ultra high end JBLs, i just use affordable studio active jbl monitors.


----------



## Marek07 (Apr 20, 2020)

WPerry said:


> < _snip_ > FWIW, my crew and I used the term "audiophile" a bit derisively; to us, an audiophile was someone that had stopped listening to music and instead listened to gear - those are not people that I miss < _snip_ >


 Sadly, for a period I became one of those people. Didn't last too long because a) I realised I'd never have enough money to buy the ultimate gear and b) I missed listening to the music .


----------



## WPerry (Apr 20, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> "Audiophile" wasn't exactly an accolade at the shops I worked for either. We semi-regularly saw the two ends of the spectrum: the guys (almost always guys) with thousands of records, and **** systems and the guys whose "music collection" totaled about thirty LPs & CDs all of them Sheffields or other ghastly crap but with many thousands of dollars invested in hifi equipment. The first group we were somewhat sympathetic to although we cringed at the often nasty turntables/tonearms/cartridges, the second group not so much. The tweakers (in the audio sense no drug sense) could also be quite irritating as could the sometimes overlapping group who wanted to turn equipment auditions into dick measuring contests. There were a number of really nice guys, and some interesting characters, in the industry and many of our customers were great. I miss the good people and the industry accommodations but there is plenty that I don't miss.



I really liked working with customers that enjoyed music, whether they had buckets of cash or if they had to save several paychecks to buy one piece at a time. You post made me reminisce about some of the characters that I've worked with and reminded me of my favorite customer story of all time.

The customer was a middle aged guy with a salt and pepper hair and one of those familiar faces. He wanted to look at some of our budget turntables (budget for us at the time meant under $2000). We chatted about his music, his system and listening habits - all the usual stuff. His friend showed up before we dropped a needle and I remembered them briefly talking about investments and a Kosher winery, among other things. During their chat, his friend asked him, "why don't you just grab a turntable from work?"

"I wanted to pick one out myself," he answered.

We started listening to tables, three of them, keeping everything else downstream the same. He was enthusiastic and he enjoyed all of the tables but really appreciated the differences among them. At one point, things did get mildly contentious, though - I was talking about phono stages and re-equalization curves (RIAA, Columbia, Decca, etc) and he was adamant that re-eq wasn't necessary, "I know some guys that would know about this, Bill - I'm going to check up on you with them!" he joked.

After about an hour or so, he and his friend had to be on their way. We chatted as we approached the front of the store, he expressed that he had a good time, it was informative, yadda, yadda. As I said, I really liked working with people that actually appreciate music and I told him as much, "it was great to meet you and listen to some stuff! Here's my card - shoot me an email or give me a call if you have any questions," I shook his hand and confirmed, "it's Mike, right?"

"Yeah - Mike. Mike Diamond. It was great to meet you, Bill."

****.

Me.

THAT'S why he looked familiar. I kept my poker face as I showed him to the door, then I squealed like a little girl when I was sure they were out of earshot.


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

WPerry said:


> I really liked working with customers that enjoyed music, whether they had buckets of cash or if they had to save several paychecks to buy one piece at a time. You post made me reminisce about some of the characters that I've worked with and reminded me of my favorite customer story of all time.
> 
> The customer was a middle aged guy with a salt and pepper hair and one of those familiar faces. He wanted to look at some of our budget turntables (budget for us at the time meant under $2000). We chatted about his music, his system and listening habits - all the usual stuff. His friend showed up before we dropped a needle and I remembered them briefly talking about investments and a Kosher winery, among other things. During their chat, his friend asked him, "why don't you just grab a turntable from work?"
> 
> ...


when ever i went into audio stores, i got weird looks and eye roll vibes because i look rough around the edges and was into audio at a young age. but i always brought my own CDs with me to demo different gear and they would be blown away by my ability to pick up on differences even 'double blind' but they would get mad because half of the music is what audiophiles would consider trash since it has horrible recording quality lol. i had a ton of minidisc recordings of live performances at the time. plus, i would disregard anything that was popular or regarded in the industry as a reference. i wanted to extract the energy of the music being played, not after specific audio traits. none of the vendors could grasp that about me.

unfortunately ive lost interest in audiophilia and other hobbies have taken over. plus i am half deaf now from being a dumb ass in the navy not wearing hearing protection half the time on the flight deck and years of sitting right in front of PA speakers blasting away at bars and concerts.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

I'm actually sort of gratified at the number of responses this thread (as well as the the earlier Vintage HiFi thread) has received. Highend audio is a dying area of interest as far as I can tell. I personally don't know anyone under 40 that is interested aside from a very few cans only listeners, and most of the enthusiasts of my acquaintance are in the 55+ age bracket. The conspicuous consumption side of highend audio I'd happily see die but I think the high quality reproduction of music is still a laudable endeavor.


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

i am just under 40 but half my audio kit is studio gear, not 'home audiophile' equipment.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

With regard to young or rather weedy looking customers we were fine with them as long as they were reasonably well behaved. We had some great customers that drove beater cars and often looked like they had been sleeping in them but who had multi-thousand dollar audio systems, at least one lived in a mobile home park. In our experience the guy with a ten or fifteen year old clapped out car was often a more promising customer than a guy with a relatively new Camry or Accord. 
The one time I was in Lyric HiFi in NYC (circa '76 or '77) they wouldn't give me the time of day. There have always been some audio shops with serious attitude problems. On the other hand I was in a highend shop in Zurich a few months later and they were extremely nice to me.


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> "Audiophile" wasn't exactly an accolade at the shops I worked for either. We semi-regularly saw the two ends of the spectrum: the guys (almost always guys) with thousands of records, and **** systems and the guys whose "music collection" totaled about thirty LPs & CDs all of them Sheffields or other ghastly crap but with many thousands of dollars invested in hifi equipment. The first group we were somewhat sympathetic to although we cringed at the often nasty turntables/tonearms/cartridges, the second group not so much. The tweakers (in the audio sense not the drug sense) could also be quite irritating as could the sometimes overlapping group who wanted to turn equipment auditions into dick measuring contests. There were a number of really nice guys, and some interesting characters, in the industry and many of our customers were great. I miss the good people and the industry accommodations but there is plenty that I don't miss.


in reference to the first group, i have no problem listening to a technics sl1200 with a stanton cartridge. the second group, i always make fun of them. i look at that group like the collectors of knives that just sit in a frame while they jerk off to how cool they think it looks and somehow they feel cooler about themselves.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 20, 2020)

panda said:


> in reference to the first group, i have no problem listening to a technics sl1200 with a stanton cartridge.



Me either, but sometimes it was a good bit worse than that and we wondered what it was doing to their records.


----------



## panda (Apr 20, 2020)

giving their records an early death, but going out in styleeeeee. those people i always got along with even though they would never listen to any advice in regards to their choice of equipment which i can totally respect.


----------



## Barashka (Apr 20, 2020)

I'm genuinely impressed by the setups here.
My humble contribution through the headphone side of things, in order or like:
(I like fun/odd stuff though)

- a bunch of things not worth talking about

- Monolith M1060C - not pictured - thought that would be budget 'mid-fi' headphone for me, ticked the right boxes on paper .. was really lacking for some reason, I can't tell .. someone with audio knowledge could, but music felt muffled, not like far, just muffled. Air pressure changes hurt my ears.

- Beyerdynamic DT 770 - bottom left - quite fun, quite good for the price, but not that comfy, sold, bought MMX300 instead.

- Meze 99 Neo - top left - surprisingly fun, light and comfy, a bit too boomy, but my wife grabbed them and never wanted anything else. Pad roll unsuccessful, better stock. Wire transmits sound too much.

- Sennheiser HD 660s - center - After HD 570, and HD 650 I thought I'll go for the "best" sub $1k Sennheiser .. and while superb mids and great overall, and better in many ways than my HD 570, I enjoyed my 570 much more. Sold. Bought Fostex x00 Purplehearts.

- Beyerdynamic DT MMX300 - bottom right - my work headphones, isolate quite good, mic is great, great fun to play games in (yes we also do that at work, tech company), dare I say, these might be better than my Fostex in some ways.

- Fostex X00 Purplehearts - bottom picture - my current daily home driver. I wanted something to replace my HD 570 but also closed ... these aren't it, but I'm keeping them 'cause base is insane, and everything else is mostly good, except for mids, those are meh. Still fun in games, fine for music, pads really helped.

- Sennheiser HD 570 - top right - these are my first headphones, 20something years old now. Maybe they spoiled me. Wore out the pads and headband and inner speaker padding and I thought the driver broke since I heard rattling. Years later, and after many other headphones, got the courage to disassemble it, turns out disintegrated foam was touching the driver. Cleaned and got new pads (that cost stupid money for the cost of the headphone) and couldn't enjoy it more .. call me weird. I can't use as much these days since kid is also home and these are very open.

Running on basic Fiio E10k that does fine, but may need an upgrade if I ever get to my wishlist.

... still looking for great mid focused but with great base _closed_ headphones. List of things to slowly trade up to: Z1r, LCD2 closed and x closed, LCD GX, Elegia. DT1770 or DT177x GO. If someone can recommend an HD 570 but closed, maybe like Meze 99 but with less boom, HD660s but closed and with base, like X00 but with waaay more mids, I'd very much appreciate it.

At a headphone meetup had a chance to listen to Empyrean and that was great, Utopia and those were impressive. Listened to a bunch of electostats, and I get it, but not my thing. Also, Abyss without realizing what it was and thought they sound pretty amazing but the design is very odd.


----------



## Garner Harrison (Apr 21, 2020)

@Barashka Thats a lotta headphones! I've thought about getting the Drop X Meze headphones because they are easy to drive and look great to take to university or something but I think thats a purchase I will make down the line. Also I was thinking of getting the HD-660s as my starting headphone but I thought it would of been better for me to start with a lower priced headphone and move up to appreciate them more I guess? 

After watching more stuff I think I might go for the Drop X Focal headphones as they are apparently similar to the HD-600 series just more extended at both ends and less intimate. 

I think Ill have to see if there are any headphone meet ups in Brisbane after all the virus stuff is over cause I think it would be a great way to suss out what to get without the guess work of watching reviews!


----------



## Barashka (Apr 21, 2020)

Highly suggest local meetups, check at www.head-fi.org for closer ones. Try things as much as you can ... otherwise, headphones as a journey can be more expensive then knives and jnats put together.

Meze is a very fun sound, it's not accurate in any way but will tickle you in all the right places. Everything will sound good.
HD660s are a bit less fun, but still pretty great, HD650 has been the benchmark for 20 years, this is a good modern successor. Their party trick is putting voices inside your head .. if you like that, you will love these. 
Focal Elex (I think you mean) is a better HD6xx in every way for audiophiles, which means somewhat even less fun. It's more accurate and will point out flaws in recordings. They are more detailed, more extended, flatter and punch well above their price tag. (2nd hand knowledge)

As for where to start: on one hand starting lower and moving up does mean you'll appreciate things more, and journey in itself can be very enjoyable .. but grabbing the end game and never looking back will make for less disappointment. Paralysis of choice is real and constant comparisons can be a death of joy for some. (some famous quote) ... same applies to knives!


----------



## labor of love (Apr 21, 2020)

gregfisk said:


> Here’s a picture of my space. View attachment 77591
> View attachment 77592


Looks like a room full of Monoliths from 2001 Space Odyssey.


----------



## Garner Harrison (Apr 21, 2020)

@Barashka Thanks for the help! Maybe I can steal... I mean nicely ask people for their FLAC files so I dont need to find my own


----------



## Famima (Apr 21, 2020)

I wouldn't class myself as an audiophile, but I play guitar and love my music so my 2 systems are designed for maximum bang-for-the-buck, particularly considering the kind of music I like.

Home office: Chromecast Audio, Cyrus DAC-XP+, Creek Destiny, PMC DB1i
Lounge: Blusound Node 2i, Linn AV5125 (active using 4 channels), Linn Katan

Plus a pair of Massdrop AKG K7XX and an Arcam rHead amp for the quiet hours ;-). And a couple of bits lying around that will make a kitchen system at some point, including a quad 306 that needs new caps.

Both systems sound great and quite different in character: the office system is warm but detailed and can really kick (the Creek amp in particular is a great performer, with a half decent headphone amp too, and exceptional value - tried a number of different amps which I sold on before settling on this one); the Linn system is super detailed without having a harsh top end but goes very low too, and gives you goosebumps listening to jazz and female vocals in particular.

Lots of "willy waving" (not sure how this translates to american english!) in the hi-fi scene, from what I can tell, but certainly in London at least, there's a young and enthusiastic community of like-minded music lovers who appreciate solid but not stupidly expensive systems with a lot of love for vinyl too. The head-fi scene too is large. (vs the older generation who previously might have dropped 5-figure sums on their systems).


----------



## Garner Harrison (Apr 22, 2020)

Goddamn it! Buying audio stuff sucks so much if you cant go into a store and hear it. *waves fist at the virus* 

I'm so torn now on what to buy, its all between the Drop + Focal Elex(100$ off on drop.com), Focal clears(found them for half price), Audeze LCD-2C and the Drop + THX AAA amp(100$ price drop) w/Drop + Grace Design standard balanced DAC. 

Ill probably buy the AMP/DAC after I get a pair of headphones that can actually use balance >.>


----------



## gregfisk (Apr 22, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Looks like a room full of Monoliths from 2001 Space Odyssey.


Those are all sound absorbing panels, I actually have more now. They are all 2’x4’ and anywhere from 2” to 6” thick. In my experience room treatment is at the very top of what’s important for good sound. It’s also one the most overlooked in my opinion. One of the big advantages of cans is you eliminate all of the room interaction with the sound. With open baffle speakers you eliminate a lot of the problems that you typically get with box speakers but not all. Linkwitz made his Orion speakers and changed a lot of people’s opinions on OB speakers. My speakers were designed by Danny Richie several years ago and while they have some similarities in looks to the Orions they are very different speakers. Each speaker has a 12” coaxial speaker on the top. This is 92db efficient and has its own crossover. These are the speakers you buy your amplifier for and with a 92db speaker you have a lot of choices. The bottom of each speaker houses two 12” servo subs. These have their own servo amp which is fully adjustable in every way. The huge advantage of servo controlled subs is how quickly they can stop and start or how quickly they come to rest. This allows a 12” speaker to create tightly controlled bass like you would normally get from an 8” speaker. With four 12” servo subs in my room you can start to understand why room treatment is even more important. After months of messing with speaker placement I’ve gotten a sound I’m happy with. The entire front wall is the soundstage and I can even hear certain sounds to the sides of me with certain recordings. This could never happen without good room treatment.


----------



## gregfisk (Apr 22, 2020)

Garner Harrison said:


> That's a serious audio setup, was expecting to see a TV or projector of some sorts in there but there's none. I wish I will be as hardcore about my music in the future as that seems like a really fun experience!
> 
> How do the tubes sound? I hear they colour and make the music more enjoyable to listen to but you have to find the ones you like. I want to try them out but they are a bit outside my price range for just an amp that might not go well with every headset I own.
> 
> @gregfisk


Sorry I didn’t see your question about tubes. In the present day tubes and solid state amps can sound pretty much the same. The tube sound of years ago is mostly gone now. What I have found that tubes do for music is take the edge away that is created by digital sources. It took me several years before I was happy with the sound of my digital sources. I switched out a lot of dacs trying to get rid of the edge that I perceived. There’s a reason people like their turntables. You don’t get the harshness that digital can bring to the music and there’s a smoothness or a warmth from a record that’s hard to get from digital. I have finally gotten my system to the point that I’m happy with using my macmini as my primary source. It took a long time and a lot of changes to get there. I think tubes play a very important part in that success. My Lampizator dac has tubes but doesn’t sound bloated or muddy in any way. All of the clarity is there but the edge is gone. My favorite combination now is my Lampi dac and my vintage Hafler solid state amp. The Lampi has volume control so I don’t have a preamp.


----------



## Barashka (Apr 22, 2020)

Garner Harrison said:


> I'm so torn now on what to buy, its all between the Drop + Focal Elex(100$ off on drop.com), Focal clears(found them for half price), Audeze LCD-2C and the Drop + THX AAA amp(100$ price drop) w/Drop + Grace Design standard balanced DAC.


Some excellent amp/dac combos that punch _well_ above their price:
- You can get a Monolyth THX AAA Amp (Dual AKM 4493 Dacs & Dual AAA-788 Modules) - $500
- Schiit Asgard 3 + multi bit dac - $400 
- Cavalli Liquid Carbon X + Sdac - $380

As for headphones, Focals will be kinda close to each other .. Clear being the .. ahem .. clear winner at half price off  Clear will have better base, better highs, though a little more neutral as well, if that's what you're looking for. LCD is pretty different kinda sound, way more laid back, "warm blanked" sound, will lie to you to make your music sound nice, unlike Clear. (2nd hand info)

Enjoy whichever you end up in! Any of them are stellar.


----------



## panda (Apr 22, 2020)

all this audio talk got me wanting some mobile headphones. i have b&o in ear monitors which sound ok, but i hate having stuff inside my ears so i never use it. thinking about focal listen. anyone try those?


----------



## Garner Harrison (Apr 23, 2020)

@Barashka Thanks for the advice!  Will take into account. I'll probably try to get the Clears if I can


----------



## nutmeg (Apr 23, 2020)

Cool thread 

It's funny, a year ago, a KKF member brought me back to the audiophile world again.
Now I feel like 18!

You guys seems to know about tubes, _any idea for a Line tube preamp in the $1500 range?_

Here is one of the turntables I built 10-15 years ago. Sky was the limit!
130 kg for the sub-chassis only! About 200kg in total. Lot of lead, steel, epoxy and sand.. Kaneda phono stage with 0,7 farad. Lundhal 1931AG transformers...
The cantilever broke on the cartridge so I'm using a kind of mega cheap one until it will be repaired but it's enough for foot tapping


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 23, 2020)

I haven't followed Audiogon used prices for a long time but some of the early to mid '90s era ARC tube line stages were pretty good as would be a CAT preamp of about that vintage. The Atma-phere MP-3 is good but not line only. I would avoid their MP-1 which sounds very good but has been more trouble prone. I have no idea on relatively new stuff but maybe Rogue or PrimaLuna have something decent. I'm a big believer in supporting companies with some longevity and good support so personally I'd avoid the one man garage/basement operations or anything made in the PRC that doesn't have a strong US support presence. If you'd consider solid state look at the Ayre K-5xeMP although I suspect that is still a well over $1500 used (the older K-1xe & K- 3x preamps were good too but most of those were sold with phono stages).
I hate gear that has a strong editorial signature so tube gear that is extra sweet, soft, or any of the other overt tube colorations including woolly or tubby bass would not fall into my "good sounding" category. I also have no patience for unreliable gear.


----------



## mayong (Apr 23, 2020)

While we're off topic, do you guys have any recommendations for headphones along a couple different price points, say $100-200, and then again at $200-$500? I have a pair of MDR-7506s that are disintegrating and I'm considering replacing them with an upgrade. I like cleaner, brighter sound, if that factors in.


----------



## Famima (Apr 23, 2020)

mayong said:


> While we're off topic, do you guys have any recommendations for headphones along a couple different price points, say $100-200, and then again at $200-$500? I have a pair of MDR-7506s that are disintegrating and I'm considering replacing them with an upgrade. I like cleaner, brighter sound, if that factors in.



Closed or open back? What kind of music do you listen to? I spent a lot of time with MDR-7506's (including doing some studio work and mixing) - they are great but have quite a distinct profile (excellent for picking up sound issues, but not my first choice for enjoyment). Clean says AKGs instantly to me, the house sound is not overly bright but have a very flat mid range typically - that said, if you're into very bass heavy music, these are likely not the right choice for you. Having owned and heavily used a whole bunch of phones (including various Sony, AKG, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic), I'm now back down to one pair (kids means any serious music making is rather curtailed!) and my keeper pair is the AKG K7XX/K702 - the Drop price on these is usually a great deal. The K271 is also a very good closed back variant.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 23, 2020)

mayong said:


> While we're off topic, do you guys have any recommendations for headphones along a couple different price points, say $100-200, and then again at $200-$500? I have a pair of MDR-7506s that are disintegrating and I'm considering replacing them with an upgrade. I like cleaner, brighter sound, if that factors in.



Do you want sealed phones or open back? With some caveats I like Grados in the <$200 bracket. Sennheisers are the other major flavor in the <$200 strata but they aren't bright, rather laid back. I've never heard the HiFiMans or the Meze. Supposedly Philip QC went to hell when Gibson acquired them around 2015(?). I have semi-favorable memories of some Audio Technica, Beyer, and Sony cans but it has been too long to entirely trust my memories.


----------



## mayong (Apr 23, 2020)

Famima said:


> Closed or open back? What kind of music do you listen to?



Closed back for sure. Classical, new wave, and indie. Nothing too bass heavy; boomy mid-bass drives me nuts.

This may be an impossible question to answer, and definitely open to debate, but is there strong value in entry-to-mid level models from high-end companies, e.g. Sennheiser, or do they primarily tend to fill market gaps with those models?


----------



## parbaked (Apr 23, 2020)

mayong said:


> Closed back for sure.


I would try these: Drop: Passions lead here (formerly Massdrop)


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 23, 2020)

mayong said:


> Closed back for sure. Classical, new wave, and indie.



Excluding the 25s all the Sennheisers of my experience are open back but they are good across a wide range of prices if you like the house sound. Grados are out, open back. All the Audio Technicas I've used are also open back but they do make the 990z in your price range which is closed back. Beyer 770s or 990s might be worth a listen, Beyer cans are very comfortable on my head. Sony has some well regarded closed back phones.


----------



## Famima (Apr 23, 2020)

mayong said:


> Closed back for sure. Classical, new wave, and indie. Nothing too bass heavy; boomy mid-bass drives me nuts.
> 
> This may be an impossible question to answer, and definitely open to debate, but is there strong value in entry-to-mid level models from high-end companies, e.g. Sennheiser, or do they primarily tend to fill market gaps with those models?



I would definitely try an akg in that case - really great for classical on particular, you get a really wide soundstage, and a lot of detail on individual instruments. K271 is good, haven't heard it but would also be tempted to try the k553. Beyerdynamic are bass heavy in my experience. 

It's diminishing returns once you get over $2-300. You can get a decent pair under $100 but they'll have set some noticeable flaws - that said, like knives, there is sometimes merit in something you don't mind losing/abusing!


----------



## panda (Apr 23, 2020)

nutmeg said:


> You guys seems to know about tubes, _any idea for a Line tube preamp in the $1500 range?_











Sonic Frontiers SFL2 Tube preamp | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Sonic Frontiers SFL2 Tube preamp at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com




it has the clarity of solid state with the warmth of tubes.


----------



## panda (Apr 23, 2020)

mayong said:


> While we're off topic, do you guys have any recommendations for headphones along a couple different price points, say $100-200, and then again at $200-$500? I have a pair of MDR-7506s that are disintegrating and I'm considering replacing them with an upgrade. I like cleaner, brighter sound, if that factors in.


beyerdynamic dt931 if you an find a set, make sure to get fresh pads.


----------



## Garner Harrison (Apr 23, 2020)

Beyerdynamic I hear would be great for your preference. Like the DT1990, which is a bit out of your price range


----------



## PalmRoyale (Apr 27, 2020)

I used to have a nice setup. Electrocompaniet pre and power amp, Magnepan speakers, Teac vrds 25, Naim DAC, Magnum Dynalab tuner. Then I met my girlfriend and I lost interest in it. Sold everything. Now we have a Yamaha micro system and it gives me the same enjoyment as my old system.


----------



## grelcar (Apr 27, 2020)

I chased the audiophile devil for many years. I don't even want to think about how much money I spent. I have a Sonos system throughout the house, A "midfi" system in the den (Yamaha/Klipsch) and an old Onyko bookshelf system in my workshop. I listen to music now rather than equipment.


----------



## PalmRoyale (Apr 27, 2020)

grelcar said:


> I listen to music now rather than equipment.



Ain't that the truth!


----------



## Barashka (Apr 27, 2020)

mayong said:


> While we're off topic, do you guys have any recommendations for headphones along a couple different price points, say $100-200, and then again at $200-$500? I have a pair of MDR-7506s that are disintegrating and I'm considering replacing them with an upgrade. I like cleaner, brighter sound, if that factors in.


Some headphones to consider for reference work:
- Sennheiser HD 380 Pro
- Audeze LCD-1 
- Audio Technica ATH M70x


----------



## gregfisk (Apr 28, 2020)

grelcar said:


> I chased the audiophile devil for many years. I don't even want to think about how much money I spent. I have a Sonos system throughout the house, A "midfi" system in the den (Yamaha/Klipsch) and an old Onyko bookshelf system in my workshop. I listen to music now rather than equipment.


I think there are audiophiles that care more about the gear than they do the music but I don’t think that’s the norm. For me the pursuit of a great sounding system is so I can enjoy the music I love. Theirs nothing more satisfying than emotionally melting into an instrument or a voice and hearing everything the artist has to give. I enjoy my Sonos whole house system for when I’m doing something else besides listening, but if I want to really listen to music I sit down and listen. The gear is a tool to get the most enjoyable experience possible.


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 28, 2020)

gregfisk said:


> I think there are audiophiles that care more about the gear than they do the music but I don’t think that’s the norm. For me the pursuit of a great sounding system is so I can enjoy the music I love. Theirs nothing more satisfying than emotionally melting into an instrument or a voice and hearing everything the artist has to give. I enjoy my Sonos whole house system for when I’m doing something else besides listening, but if I want to really listen to music I sit down and listen. The gear is a tool to get the most enjoyable experience possible.



I completely agree with this. There are lines in some music I just can't properly parse out on systems that lack sufficient resolution or extension. On many occasions I've shrugged off some new-to-me music heard via car radio or other limited transparency systems only to discover when hearing it on a good system that there was something really interesting there. Certainly this isn't always the case and I do enjoy plenty of music on lower fi systems but it just doesn't serve some music very well.


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

I only listen to good music which means it could be played from a hallmark greeting card with the lowest resolution possible and I will still enjoy it.


----------



## WPerry (Apr 28, 2020)

gregfisk said:


> I think there are audiophiles that care more about the gear than they do the music but I don’t think that’s the norm. For me the pursuit of a great sounding system is so I can enjoy the music I love. Theirs nothing more satisfying than emotionally melting into an instrument or a voice and hearing everything the artist has to give. I enjoy my Sonos whole house system for when I’m doing something else besides listening, but if I want to really listen to music I sit down and listen. The gear is a tool to get the most enjoyable experience possible.





LostHighway said:


> I completely agree with this. There are lines in some music I just can't properly parse out on systems that lack sufficient resolution or extension. On many occasions I've shrugged off some new-to-me music heard via car radio or other limited transparency systems only to discover when hearing it on a good system that there was something really interesting there. Certainly this isn't always the case and I do enjoy plenty of music on lower fi systems but it just doesn't serve some music very well.



It sounds douchy to say, but I'll stand by it - a good recording of a good performance through a good system is more humanizing and much easier to emotionally connect to. In general, country music isn't my thing, but if it ticks the above boxes, I'll be a captive audience, genre be damned.


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

Most good music is not well recorded..


----------



## WPerry (Apr 28, 2020)

panda said:


> I only listen to good music which means it could be played from a hallmark greeting card with the lowest resolution possible and I will still enjoy it.





panda said:


> Most good music is not well recorded..



Keep tossin' that bait out there - I'm sure someone will bite.


----------



## WildBoar (Apr 28, 2020)

WPerry said:


> Keep tossin' that bait out there - I'm sure someone will bite.


Busted!


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

It sounds douchey to say but crappy music recorded well played on a good system let's you hear how much that music truely sucks.


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

I once triggered someone because I made fun of their stash of 'source material' that included recordings of bells and stereophile 'demo CDs' and not actual music.


----------



## WPerry (Apr 28, 2020)

panda said:


> I once triggered someone because I made fun of their stash of 'source material' that included recordings of bells and stereophile 'demo CDs' and not actual music.



Sweeeeet - if that's not a feather in one's cap, I don't know what is. 

BTW, "reference" is the word you're looking for. "Reference material."


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

Hahaha, yeah reference of dumb sounds that have zero musical value.


----------



## labor of love (Apr 28, 2020)

WPerry said:


> BTW, "reference" is the word you're looking for. "Reference material."


Aren’t we splitting feath-hairs here?


----------



## WPerry (Apr 28, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Aren’t we splitting feath-hairs here?



Only if one doesn't know what they're talking about.


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Aren’t we splitting feath-hairs here?


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

enjoying this crappy lossy compressed youtube recording at the moment.


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

next on playlist


----------



## mlau (Apr 28, 2020)

Just to add, you might want to try building your own speakers sometime.

My Quark speakers were my first personal "good" speakers, and are not too far off from the Audioengines. The ones I built before (Overnight Sensations) were from a friend, and were very great too.


----------



## M1k3 (Apr 28, 2020)

panda said:


> enjoying this crappy lossy compressed youtube recording at the moment.





panda said:


> next on playlist




I don't know what everyone is going on about! These recordings sound great through my single speaker on my "upper-budget range" Android phone


----------



## WildBoar (Apr 28, 2020)

Stereophile stuff that I have seen over the last 30 years was all about system setup. I only ever bought one of those discs, and it had a lot of good info (white noise tracks, hand claps, etc.). They also recorded/ produced some classical and choral music, but that wasn't 'demo' stuff -- it was real performances. My wife like piano, so one year I bought her a disk they had made, and the music was all stuff many others had performed/ recorded through the preceding 50+ years. I'm not much of a classical fan, but I listened to it a few times and it was a very good performance.

I didn't grow up with a lot of exposure to music; basically just a local radio station playing on the living room console, or maybe an old album of some '40s crooner or '50s 'rock' that my mom threw on the record player (that console had a record player; no way can I deem it a 'turntable'). All of my music purchases as a teen and college student were rock bands, and some '80s British Invasion stuff. First on vinyl, than changing over to CDs after college because the guy who lived in the room next to me in the dorm got a job as manager of a Kemp Mill Records and would heavily discount my CD purchases.

My music collection is pretty meager, probably about 300 albums and CDs. I listed to local rock stations via a turner more than anything else. But screw it -- I wanted stuff to still sound clean when cranked up, so the receiver eventually went the way of amp and preamp separates. And eventually when the amp died I went 'higher end' and then did the same with the speakers. I found it nice to sit in a chair or on the sofa listen, as I could appreciate the music and the recording better.

I used to visit some area audio shops in the '90s and '00s. Most salespeople tolerated the rock CDs I would bring. Then a year or two prior to 2010 I bought a few new CDs (it had been a few years since I last bought any), and the tracks were some damed compressed it was listenable. The only dam place I could remotely tolerate it was on a car stereo. The music was good, I guess, but it totally lacked dynamic range. It was like the band was performing in a small bathroom.

Bad recordings (actually bad mastering I suspect) can kill good music, no matter what system it gets played back on. A 'high-end' system is definitely more revealing of this, but I have many older rock recordings that are still very listenable because compression in the '80s - early '00s wasn't nearly as bad as it is today.

Well dam, that was a long rambling post. Sorry, my head is mush from working from home all day while my son tried to prevent me from working.


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

big dynamic range swing is not the end all be all. the tiny dynamics is more important as it's that subtle variation where all the substance is.

dave, i love a good piano performance, it's my favorite instrument.
 - big fan of sonny clark

in my mid 20s my music collection was always growing, at one point i used to buy a new or used cd or record every day during my lunch break and would listen to it while enjoying a pint of fresh local beer. at this place Bull Moose


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 28, 2020)

panda said:


> big dynamic range swing is not the end all be all. the tiny dynamics is more important as it's that subtle variation where all the substance is.
> 
> dave, i love a good piano performance, it's my favorite instrument.
> - big fan of sonny clark
> ...




Sonny Clark is a favorite of mine as well although much of listening postdates the hard bop era. Considering how small it is Portland, Maine has a decent jazz scene mostly due to Pauil Lichter.


----------



## WildBoar (Apr 28, 2020)

Panda, you are killing me with the Fleetwood Mac reference. My oldest sister wore that effing album out when I was growing up. I dive for the station buttons whenever I hear a song from it come on the radio. I'm sure part of it was due to me being the youngest of 3 kids,and getting the least amount of time being 'in control' of our all-in-one stereo (yeah, the kind where the record player was built into the top of the receiver). Anything either of my sisters liked back then I tend to avoid like the plague (or should that be "like the coronovirus?")


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

still havent gotten over it huh? i'm still salty that i missed an opportunity to see them live during the short time i worked in DC.


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

this is kinda fun picking random songs played on a deck with cartridge many audiophiles would sneer at.


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

weird azz tt, love this song tho


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

serious nostalgia


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)

awwww yeahhhhh


----------



## panda (Apr 28, 2020)




----------



## WildBoar (Apr 28, 2020)

panda said:


> still havent gotten over it huh?


No, I haven't. And I don't plan on ever getting over it!

Only Fleetwood Mac song worth a dang is Landslide and the Smashing Pumpkins version is a million times better. (holy eff! That was 26 years ago!?!)


----------



## Lycanit (Apr 29, 2020)

I have spent a little money on Yamaha. And I would consider it reference material. I would say that reasonable recording of reasonable music on reasonable equipment is my enjoyment. I will admit to have broken dishes that shook off of counters and pictures having been vibrated off the wall. So yeah SVS makes some really nice stuff. Lol


----------



## gregfisk (Apr 29, 2020)

Panda, I’m not sure why you keep posting music on here, I highly doubt anyone is going to click on it. Obviously you don’t care about really hearing what the artist was trying to portray and that’s fine. Unfortunately a lot of great music isn’t recorded well and that’s really tuff because there’s no way to get it back. But when something you really enjoy is really well recorded and you have a system that can reproduce that recording that is truly amazing.


----------



## panda (Apr 30, 2020)

pretty sure a bunch of people checked out the songs i shared, if not because they recognize the artist or just out of sheer curiosity because they want to know what i think good music is like. 

the whole 'what the artist intended' thing is nonsense that snobs came up with. most artists fully expect their music to be heard on the crappiest of systems, including over intercom and elevators. 

now dont get me wrong, playing it back on a system that you enjoy is freaking awesome, but that's not what i was discussing.


----------



## Famima (Apr 30, 2020)

@panda - Flip this around, have you ever seen a soundcheck prior to a live gig? I don't know any artist who doesn't put quite a lot of effort into getting this right, or who doesn't get frustrated when the acoustics/PA/sound engineer suck, because everyone who performs cares about the sound going out (I've gigged semi-professionally in the past, and have friends who are professional artists and sound engineers). This applies to all genres (ie. doesn't depend on your definition of good) but matters more so the more complex/involved the music (jazz, classical, etc.) because it sucks for all your hard work to get lost in the mix, both from the point of view of the artist and the listener (no musician is ever there just as a "filler", no line is unimportant). That's a separate point as to whether you can still enjoy music on lo-fi systems (of course you can); but for me, the goal of recorded music is to bring the artists into the room with you.


----------



## Lars (Apr 30, 2020)

I'm enjoying @panda trolling this thread.


----------



## gregfisk (Apr 30, 2020)

Famima, very well said and I couldn’t agree more. I don’t have a problem with people who don’t get or care about the quality of sound but don’t try and say that the artist isn’t putting themselves out there emotionally. So, some people can’t connect with them and that’s okay. I personally care what the artist is trying to get across. Panda, just because you don’t get it or into it doesn’t make it nonsense. And just because someone does doesn’t make them a snob.


----------



## gregfisk (Apr 30, 2020)

Lars said:


> I'm enjoying @panda trolling this thread.


Yes, he obviously gets into making fun of people who care. I’m not going to do the same to him though. He can’t help it if he doesn’t get it and that’s alright with me.


----------



## LucasFur (Apr 30, 2020)

Not reading any comments ... just piping in here ... 

Im trying to stick to IEM's. I mainly use them in office settings, so over ears are a little much. 
Owned: 

IEM's: 
Campfire Audio Comet (SOLD)
Campfire Audio Atlas (SOLD)
Campfire Audio Solaris (Current set) 
Audeze ISINE10 with 1st gen lightning - My Favourite 
Fiio FH5 (SOLD)
Bose QC35 (Love the sound cancel) 
Dre- inears (broke 6 pairs, with future shop return policies) 

Players: 
Hidizs AP200 -- Garbage 
FIIO M11 --- Great stuff. Hate android. 

Home Audio is all mid level KEF equipment. Use to have Definitive Audio surround sound. 

28years old ... developing a tinnitus ... goes away when not using IEM's ... i think its time to change out of them. 
The Audeze ISINE and Solaris sound just perfect though. 

-L


----------



## LostHighway (Apr 30, 2020)

LucasFur said:


> Not reading any comments ... just piping in here ...
> 
> Im trying to stick to IEM's. I mainly use them in office settings, so over ears are a little much.
> Owned:
> ...



28 is really young to be developing tinnitus, watch your volume levels whether or not you are using IEMs. 
I'm old, dislike the sensation of something stuck in my ear canal, and so far have not had isolation as a priority. Nevertheless if we ever get back to being able to freely travel again I may come looking for advice on IEMs.


----------



## LucasFur (Apr 30, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> 28 is really young to be developing tinnitus, watch your volume levels whether or not you are using IEMs.
> I'm old, dislike the sensation of something stuck in my ear canal, and so far have not had isolation as a priority. Nevertheless if we ever get back to being able to freely travel again I may come looking for advice on IEMs.



Yea, I realize its pretty bad. Its gone now that its been maybe 2 months of drastically less use. What is surprising, is i do check the volume level. only 1 bar when using an apple device. And usually 10/100 for android devices. 

I was Looking into the ADEL system, that helps with the pressure differences, but the audiophile hobby seems to be way more expensive (at the higher end) than this knife hobby. and really, i really like bose products. Yes, Yes, Crucify me. I really seeing myself getting there eventually.


----------



## panda (Apr 30, 2020)

Yeah, I can't stand wearing iems. I do really enjoy the way etymotic er4s sound though.


LostHighway said:


> 28 is really young to be developing tinnitus, watch your volume levels whether or not you are using IEMs.
> I'm old, dislike the sensation of something stuck in my ear canal, and so far have not had isolation as a priority. Nevertheless if we ever get back to being able to freely travel again I may come looking for advice on IEMs.


----------



## KJDedge (May 1, 2020)

My set up is Atoll separates, NAD music player, best Transparent cables I could afford, Dynaudio Contour 60
streaming Tidal service.....
Sounds pretty darn good....


----------



## KJDedge (May 1, 2020)

How about some recommendations for great sounding,well recorded tracks??
Any genre....
Maybe this needs its own thread?


----------



## Barashka (May 1, 2020)

LucasFur said:


> 28years old ... developing a tinnitus ... goes away when not using IEM's


I got tinnitus from other excessively loud things .. but it gets/feels worse with some headphones and some tracks. I found open-back headphones really don't bother me at pretty much any volume. Closed-back, however, does make things worse even at quite low volumes ... especially certain pitch of voices.

Experiment with getting out of IEMs and see if that helps, borrow someones HD 6xx or the like, that one triggered my ears least.


----------



## LostHighway (May 1, 2020)

KJDedge said:


> How about some recommendations for great sounding,well recorded tracks??
> Any genre....
> Maybe this needs its own thread?



What genres do you listen to? Well recorded music you don't like isn't worth much other than for showing your system off. @WPerry may have better suggestions than I can come up with as I think he has been in the industry more recently but I'll toss out a few possibilities (albums) that were popular as demo material:
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon (if I never hear this again as long as I live it is fine with me)
Jennifer Warnes - Famous Blue Raincoat and The Hunter
Nils Lofgren - Acoustic Live
Patricia Barber - Modern Cool and Cafe' Blue
Holly Cole - Temptation
Paul Simon - Graceland
Diana Krall - late 90s/early 2000s recordings
some of the Steely Dan albums were popular but I never thought they were all that well recorded
some of the Windham Hill stuff - can't remember specific titles (not my music)
Some afropop from the 70s and 80s was remarkably well recorded although some of it was really poorly recorded too.
A fair amount of the classical recordings from the late 50s into the early 70s were well recorded, at least on vinyl. Vox, Decca (London in the US), and EMI/Angel all had some really good recordings

I mostly use jazz to judge systems as I like the music, listen to quite a bit of it live, and it usually isn't as over amplified and manipulated as most rock, hiphop, EDM, etc. Chamber music: string quartets and quintets, solo cello, piano or piano trios, and small chamber orchestras I also regularly use.

Whoever recorded the first Televsion album is on my terrible recordings sh*t list, they compressed the life out of it.


----------



## LostHighway (May 1, 2020)

Re: tinnitus, shelved or notched hearing, and other hearing problems it is important to remember that humans evolved in a very quiet world by modern standards. It was only in the last 150 years or so, the blink of an eye in evolutionary terms, that regular exposure to loud noises started to become the norm for a significant chunk of the population. There is a relationship between volume and duration of exposure, in addition to a number of other variables, that can be predictive of hearing damage. A *really loud *noise, say 130 dB, can do some hearing damage with very limited time exposure but moderately loud noises, say 85 dB, can also do damage if the exposure is for hours in duration and repeated frequently. Take care of your hearing! I almost always bring ear plugs to concerts just in case I feel I need them.


----------



## HRC_64 (May 1, 2020)

Famima said:


> @panda - Flip this around, have you ever seen a soundcheck prior to a live gig? I don't know any artist who doesn't put quite a lot of effort into getting this right...



What do you really think about all the EQ that get used to make corrections during sound check, tho?


----------



## Lars (May 1, 2020)

HRC_64 said:


> What do you really think about all the EQ that get used to make corrections during sound check, tho?


We don't equalize to make corrections unless the source is of poor quality. We equalize to make the instruments sound cohesive and mix together as we wish.


----------



## WildBoar (May 1, 2020)

My person preference, even though pretty compressed, was Red Hot Chili Pepper's Blood Sugar Sex Magic. Not great at all for dynamic range, and it sounds like he's singing through a paper towel tube, but it weeded out the good salesmen from the snobby ones  If they sat through a couple songs from that CD I was happy to return the favor by listening afterward to some of their recommendations.

My first real hi-fi experience was about 15, when I spent a week at my aunt's house in NJ. I went out for a walk one day and stumbles across the small 'downtown' area, which included a stereo shop. The owner was in there, and he spent a few minutes welcoming me and telling me a little about his shop. There was a single system set up (lots of equipment on display on shelves around the side walls). The speakers were ones he had made, and I learned later in life they were infinite baffle. He sat me down in the single chair and put on an album. It was Dark Side of the Moon, which I did not know much about at the time. That system blew me away. I had never heard a stereo sound that good, and the bass literally had the cuffs of my pants moving. I had to get up after a couple songs and turn down the volume, as I was getting overwhelmed. I always turned our home all-in-one up to '11', but that produced NOTHING like this system. I started buying my own stereo stuff a year or so later, had a system when I headed to college. I upgraded/ expanded while in college using money from summer jobs. Once I graduated I slowly built a nice system of separates. Most pieces lasted me 20-30 years.


----------



## panda (May 1, 2020)

Listen to the black keys, nine inch nails, rage against the machine. They scale well to good equipment.


----------



## WPerry (May 1, 2020)

KJDedge said:


> How about some recommendations for great sounding,well recorded tracks??
> Any genre....
> Maybe this needs its own thread?



Goodness. Uh, there's a lot. I'll try to cover a variety, some intimate, some bombastic, and see if I can provide links to a recording, but keep in mind that whatever I link to might be compressed as ****. 

Mother Nature's Son, Beatles, Anthology 3 version
Planet Dada (Flamboyant), Yello
Poem of Chinese Drums, Hok-man Yim. Be careful with this one... really. 
Tin Pan Alley, SRV 
Give it up to love, Mighty Sam
Scheherazade, Op. 35: I. The Sea and Sinbad's Ship, Rimsky-Korsakov. CSO/Fritz Reiner
Stimela (the Coal Train), Hugh Masekela. Sure to drive industry folks crazy if they have to listen to it again, but a stunning recording
I'm an old cowhand, Sonny Rollins
Rosa Parks, Outcast
Suite For Solo Cello No.1 In G Major, JS Bach, Janos Starker
1B, Yo-Yo Ma, Edgar Meyer, Mark O'Connor
High Life, Domnerus, etc Another one that an industry person wouldn't want to hear again. 
Watermelon Man, Herbie Hancock
Oh Holy Night/Christmas Song. Wait for the chorus. Have literally had people fall out of their chair in front of 6 figure systems
Chan chan, Buena Vista Social Club
Untitled (How does it feel?), D'Angelo
Fast Car, Tracy Chapman
Layla (MTV Unplugged), Eric Clapton
Rondo à la Turk, Brubeck Quartet
Madness, Muse
Sail, AWOLNATION
Good intentions, Lyle Lovett
Georgia on my mind, Marie Nakamoto
Oh yeah, Moby

Okay, I've killed enough time for now.


----------



## panda (May 1, 2020)

The mtv unplugged ones usually sound abysmal, the clapton one is an exception?


----------



## HRC_64 (May 1, 2020)

Lars said:


> We equalize ...



Ah, yes ... this is the key part of answer


----------



## parbaked (May 1, 2020)

panda said:


> The mtv unplugged ones usually sound abysmal, the clapton one is an exception?


The '93 Nirvana unplugged is epic...


----------



## HRC_64 (May 1, 2020)

Also '93


----------



## Ryndunk (May 1, 2020)

Muddy Waters- The Folk Singer


----------



## panda (May 1, 2020)

Ryndunk said:


> Muddy Waters- The Folk Singer


many blues recordings sound incredible, especially ones featuring amplified harmonica.


----------



## panda (May 1, 2020)

HRC_64 said:


> Also '93



i fell asleep within first 5 seconds lol


----------



## WildBoar (May 1, 2020)

parbaked said:


> The '93 Nirvana unplugged is epic...


What??? No effing way is that 27 years old! You take that back!


----------



## Ryndunk (May 1, 2020)

He died in '94!


WildBoar said:


> What??? No effing way is that 27 years old! You take that back!


----------



## Garner Harrison (May 3, 2020)

Earlier in the thread I thought I would be buying the Focal Clears but I change my mind like I often do and instead got myself a speaker setup. I thought it would of been silly of me to buy a $1200 pair of cans while I still had logitech speakers  So I did some research and found the Micca MB42x was highly rated for the price and got those, speaker stands and some nice cables for it. Im going to use my Schiit Magni/Modi for the speakers and buying a balanced dac/amp for my headphones.

Thanks for people recommending me headphones and giving me advice on this thread!


----------



## Lars (May 3, 2020)

HRC_64 said:


> Ah, yes ... this is the key part of answer


Indeed.. I was really just being smug.


----------



## Michi (May 9, 2020)

panda said:


> this is kinda fun picking random songs played on a deck with cartridge many audiophiles would sneer at.


One of the best pieces of music in the the history of music. Not quite up there with Dark Side of the Moon, or Black Dog, or Beethoven's Fifth, but close.


----------

