# Beware of selling to absolutecarbon!!!!!!!!



## mauichef (Feb 15, 2018)

I sold a knife to this member (absolutecarbon) last year through the KKF classifieds.
He paid for it and was happy with the purchase.
Unfortunately I screwed up and PayPal returned his payment due to me not "accepting" it.
He used a none registered address and the payment needed my approval. Never encountered this in 15 years of doing a lot of business with them. But my bad and PayPals, as they gave me no warning they were going to reverse the payment
They reversed the payment and returned the funds to him.

I tried to contact him for about 2 weeks with no response.
Then he messaged me to say he would pay on the new invoice.
Then nothing.
That was 8 weeks ago.

Paypal have contacted him and I have written and called, but no response.
I am now out of a beautiful custom Nakiri that cost me over $500!

I am only posting this because I am afraid he will screw someone else. Sorry to have to do this but as a Mod on another Knife Forum I know the members there would want to hear about this kind of behavior.

Aloha!


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## fatboylim (Feb 15, 2018)

Fark noooooo... and sorry to hear it. 

NEVER sell to anyone with less than a 100 posts... there has been an influx of new members making purchases. You have everything to lose as a seller with PayPal.

And thank you for telling us! 




mauichef said:


> I sold a knife to this member (absolutecarbon) last year through the KKF classifieds.
> He paid for it and was happy with the purchase.
> Unfortunately I screwed up and PayPal returned his payment due to me not "accepting" it.
> He used a none registered address and the payment needed my approval. Never encountered this in 15 years of doing a lot of business with them. But my bad and PayPals, as they gave me no warning they were going to reverse the payment
> ...


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## dwalker (Feb 15, 2018)

Sorry to hear that, Ray. I hope it works out for you in the end.


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## valgard (Feb 15, 2018)

sorry to hear that and thank you for letting us know.


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## Bensbites (Feb 15, 2018)

Sorry


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## boomchakabowwow (Feb 15, 2018)

i didnt know Paypal did that!! thanks.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Feb 15, 2018)

@Bensbites if you know either party involved, sorry for me interfering, don't read on.

But post padding (posting whereever you can) to reach 100 ... on a thread that suggests using post count as a measure of trustworthiness of a member... would be an at best intelligently ironic thing to do, at worst in bad taste.


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## fatboylim (Feb 15, 2018)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @Bensbites if you know either party involved, sorry for me interfering, don't read on.
> 
> But post padding (posting whereever you can) to reach 100 ... on a thread that suggests using post count as a measure of trustworthiness of a member... would be an at best intelligently ironic thing to do, at worst in bad taste.


At least look if they contribute fully or just put bot like replies to boost their post count.


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## panda (Feb 15, 2018)

Ask for eBay feedback and proof it's theirs if low post count. Also pay attention to emails from PayPal!! You could have prevented this. Also, there should now be a. PayPal investigation into your buyer for fraud should it not? Since he didn't pay up again or return product.. there's no way it's a one way street.


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## Nemo (Feb 15, 2018)

fatboylim said:


> At least look if they contribute fully or just put bot like replies to boost their post count.


Good point.


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## dwalker (Feb 15, 2018)

LifeByA1000Cuts, I understand where you're coming from, but bensbites is good people and I believe his gesture is sincere. He has a larger presence on other forums. I've done business with him in the past and wouldn't hesitate to do more in the future.


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## Bensbites (Feb 15, 2018)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @Bensbites if you know either party involved, sorry for me interfering, don't read on.
> 
> But post padding (posting whereever you can) to reach 100 ... on a thread that suggests using post count as a measure of trustworthiness of a member... would be an at best intelligently ironic thing to do, at worst in bad taste.



I have seen the OP on another forum, not sure why you are pointing at me with this comment. I was being empathetic to a guy who lost $$$. No need for a trigger warning.


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## Bensbites (Feb 15, 2018)

@dwalker

Thanks. I appreciate that.


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## mauichef (Feb 15, 2018)

I know bensbites very well. He is a very active member of the forum I mod and a maker of very fine handles. The last thing he would do is pad a forum.


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## pete84 (Feb 15, 2018)

Buyer beware yes, but seller beware? What a world we live in...

Thats terrible news, sorry to hear this Ray...

Hopefully it will be amicably resolved in the near future. Best of luck.


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## mauichef (Feb 15, 2018)

panda said:


> Ask for eBay feedback and proof it's theirs if low post count. Also pay attention to emails from PayPal!! You could have prevented this. Also, there should now be a. PayPal investigation into your buyer for fraud should it not? Since he didn't pay up again or return product.. there's no way it's a one way street.



Like I said. My bad for not reading the only email I received from PayPal. However I think that before taking my money they might have sent me at least one warning. I accept my responsibility in this matter entirely but it still does not make his or PayPal,s actions acceptable. Seems like blaming the victim does not just happen with rape. And as stated PayPal have tried to contact him but to no avail. I am not seeking sympathy at all...this was posted as a warning to all about the buyer and PayPals very unfair business practices.


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## panda (Feb 15, 2018)

PayPal should have fronted the money until proper investigation. They messed up in this matter. A middle man is essentially an escrow right? They assume the responsibility.


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## mauichef (Feb 15, 2018)

I agree entirely. I am amazed that they are not being more proactive especially as I run tens of thousands of dollars through them every year. You have no idea how uncooperative they have been. Really an eye opener for me. Bottom line is they stole from me too and its incredible that they refuse to accept that they screwed up as well as me. I have spent hours on the phone with so many reps it is crazy. Thank you for your advise.


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## Bensbites (Feb 15, 2018)

mauichef said:


> I know bensbites very well. He is a very active member of the forum I mod and a maker of very fine handles. The last thing he would do is pad a forum.



Thanks


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## WildBoar (Feb 15, 2018)

PayPal pretty much doesn't give a crap about the sellers, only the buyers.


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## milkbaby (Feb 15, 2018)

How does this work? Did paypal withdraw the money from your bank after the fact? Thanks for the heads up, that's something crazy that I never would've thought... Good luck.


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## mauichef (Feb 15, 2018)

milkbaby said:


> How does this work? Did paypal withdraw the money from your bank after the fact? Thanks for the heads up, that's something crazy that I never would've thought... Good luck.



They removed the money from my PayPal account because i did not "accept it".
I received the customary email stating I had received the payment but did not notice that i had to confirm the sale. This was because the buyer did not use his confirmed address as the delivery address.

Like i said, I run my 2 businesses through them and in 15 years have never had to accept or approve anything.
I did not look at the email in detail.....MY BAD!

So 30 days later they took the money out of my account and returned it to the buyer.
As this was less than five hundred dollars I had not moved it to my bank but kept it in the PP count for future (knife) purchases ;-)

Next thing is I get an email saying they had taken the money. No warning...nothing!!!!
That's when the buyer disappeared and PayPal said I could pound sand!

So I guess the lesson is...make sure you ACCEPT the payment or you are totally screwed.
Of course if the email goes in the trash or you are away or....whatever....you are screwed by this crazy and I believe, illegal system.
They should AT LEAST have sent me a reminder that the money was in limbo and certainly, a day or two before removing it from MY account, contacted me to notify me of this impending action.
It's not like it costs them anything other than a coulpe of lines of computer code!!!!

The money is fairly minor...the issue is anything but.
Plus now this POS has my beautiful custom Nakiri, which I hope he cuts himself with...badly :knife:

Aloha to everyone for expressing concern and support. A great community indeed.


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## daveb (Feb 15, 2018)

Wait. There's another forum? :cool2:


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## Jville (Feb 15, 2018)

Yeah, thats bs Ray. He should of known something was uo and contacted you to see why you would not accept the cash and assume it was a mistake. That was the itto ryo nakiri, right?


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## mauichef (Feb 15, 2018)

daveb said:


> Wait. There's another forum? :cool2:



Ouch !!!!


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## mauichef (Feb 15, 2018)

Jville said:


> Yeah, thats bs Ray. He should of known something was uo and contacted you to see why you would not accept the cash and assume it was a mistake. That was the itto ryo nakiri, right?



It was mate! I knew I should not have sold it ;-)


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## ynot1985 (Feb 16, 2018)

pete84 said:


> Buyer beware yes, but seller beware? What a world we live in...
> 
> Thats terrible news, sorry to hear this Ray...
> 
> Hopefully it will be amicably resolved in the near future. Best of luck.



totally.. paypal solely exist to protect the buyer and never the seller. it's so easy to get money refunded off paypal to the point where the seller can do nothing about it and just see money taken out of their account


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## fatboylim (Feb 16, 2018)

panda said:


> PayPal should have fronted the money until proper investigation. They messed up in this matter. A middle man is essentially an escrow right? They assume the responsibility.


Not at all unfortunately. The mechanisms of payment schemes are nothing like as good as you suggest. In the end, they are only plumbing around commercial contracts. So, Trust who you sell to and buy from!


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## Marek07 (Feb 16, 2018)

ynot1985 said:


> totally.. paypal solely exist to protect the buyer and never the seller. it's so easy to get money refunded off paypal to the point where the seller can do nothing about it and just see money taken out of their account





WildBoar said:


> PayPal pretty much doesn't give a crap about the sellers, only the buyers.


To the OP - thanks for the alert and sorry you got burnt.

PayPal touts buyer protection as one of their strengths. In truth, they may favour buyers over sellers, but only a little. I've actually lost as a buyer. However, they favour their profits over all. Lots of high transaction fees (even F&F if foreign) plus exorbitant exchange rates makes them a very profitable outfit.

Footnote: Check out your card providers' conversion rates. It's given as an option before you agree to pay. I've always found that I pay considerably less using this option.


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## mauichef (Feb 16, 2018)

PayPal came through for me.
After many calls they just returned the money. That is customer service :biggrin:
Mahalo to everybody for your care and concern.
Let this be a lesson to us all eh!


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## Matus (Feb 16, 2018)

I am happy to hear that this story had a good end after all [emoji846]


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## Bensbites (Feb 16, 2018)

I am going to congratulate you, while risk being accused of padding my post count.


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## Dave Martell (Feb 16, 2018)

Now the other guy is on the phone to PP trying to get them to give him his money back.


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## NO ChoP! (Feb 16, 2018)

You better spend that PP money quick!


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## Andreu (Feb 16, 2018)

Glad that it all worked out for you, Ray! And thank you for the heads up. We learn something new everyday and this time, the lesson learned did not cost a penny (though, i bet it caused a lot of headache).


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## Jville (Feb 17, 2018)

Happy for you Ray. I wonder what the buyer thought of alk this


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## buffhr (Feb 17, 2018)

NO ChoP! said:


> You better spend that PP money quick!



Paypal could always do a charge back... whether the money is there or not, especially since he mentioned using it for over 15 years and transferring money to is bank account previously, so they have that on file as well.

However once they rule in 1 decision , for disputes, I have yet to hear of them reversing this decision...

@mauichef, Happy it all worked out for you in the end, but having to deal with said "BS" for a few months is just horrid!


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## Matus (Feb 17, 2018)

Paypal can only then charge back if the OP account is attached to a bank account. If it is only attached to a VISA/MASTER card, then they can not, resp. One can fight it via the company behind the card


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## toddnmd (Feb 17, 2018)

NO ChoP! said:


> You better spend that PP money quick!



Looks like he did . . .


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## mauichef (Feb 17, 2018)

They looked at my activity over the last 16.5 years and I guess they decided I was worth keeping as a customer


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## nevin (Feb 17, 2018)

Congratulations on getting the money back from Paypal.... it isn't an easy task.


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## Bill13 (Feb 18, 2018)

I'm curious did Paypal make good or did your buyer pony up the money, or do you know?


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## mauichef (Feb 19, 2018)

Bill13 said:


> I'm curious did Paypal make good or did your buyer pony up the money, or do you know?



PayPal made good. After 16 years of running my 2 businesses through them it is the least they could do. But still thankful to them for stepping up. The buyer has gone AWOL.


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## milkbaby (Feb 19, 2018)

Everybody loves a happy ending... :biggrin:


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## MontezumaBoy (Feb 19, 2018)

Not sure I think this situation fulfills this quote .... A KKF member stole from another and only because of a significant business investment was the buyer able to get the transaction paid at a loss for PayPal - think what you may about the company & it's practices but their existence does help with our MO for B/S/T and other similar situations. The seller was made whole but the buyer is a POS ...

I'm more concerned that absolutecarbon just "re-appears" as a re-branded KKF'r (I'm thinking a moniker of "absolutelynothingpaidforcarbon" would be apropos) and pull this little stunt again & again ... 



milkbaby said:


> Everybody loves a happy ending... :biggrin:


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## fatboylim (Feb 20, 2018)

Check how the buyer has been posting... If they have little love the forum it will be obvious.


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## Nemo (Feb 20, 2018)

fatboylim said:


> Check how the buyer has been posting... If they have little love the forum it will be obvious.


+1


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## krx927 (Feb 20, 2018)

Matus said:


> Paypal can only then charge back if the OP account is attached to a bank account. If it is only attached to a VISA/MASTER card, then they can not, resp. One can fight it via the company behind the card



I was quite surprised when I saw what Matus wrote. I would never expect to give PayPal the right to direct debit my bank account by just adding it to my PayPal account.

Today I called PayPal and they confirmed fully what Matus has written. When you add bank account to PayPal it also means signing mandate for direct debit for this account.
The only way to avoid it is to delete bank account from PP account.

But here in EU we have another level of protection. By default the only direct debit that can be done is SEPA DD CORE (as opposed to SEPA DD B2B which is only for companies). 
One important rule of this direct debit is the following:
Refund Right: 8 weeks after debit or 13 months after debit (in case of missing mandate)

So you have a right to reject it and they literally cannot do anything. It will be the bank that will return your money.

And they also confirmed: if you want to receive the money you need to enter bank account number. They cannot/will not refund on credit card.

And great for the OP to fix the issue!


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## Chef Doom (Feb 21, 2018)

mauichef said:


> PayPal came through for me.
> After many calls they just returned the money. That is customer service [emoji3]
> Mahalo to everybody for your care and concern.
> Let this be a lesson to us all eh!


Just when I thought that you were utterly DOOMED! [emoji109] [emoji23]


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