# Takamura r2 vs kohetsu hap40 vs kazan hap40



## Alexec (Jan 11, 2018)

So i am gonna buy one of those.
Takamura r2
Kohetsu hap40
Kazan hap40

What do you think? Anyone can comment about any of those? Or compare?
Reccomendation of other knives accepted.
Im interested on any type of knife except sandokus


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## daveb (Jan 11, 2018)

Welcome.

What do you want your knife to do? 

There is a which knife questionnaire at the top of this sub - if you answer it, you'll get answers based on your requirements.


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## K813zra (Jan 11, 2018)

I have only used the Takamura. It has great edge retention compared to most knives that I own. It is a very, very thin knife, probably the thinnest I have ever used. Comes with a very thin and fragile edge too. Sharpens fairly easy but not anywhere near as easy as carbon steel. It will exhibit some sticking but that is to be expected with a laser. The handle is a bit small and some do not like that, I do not mind. For reference, I use a size large glove. Maybe if you have larger hands it will bother you, I don't know. All in all it is a great knife for a great price.


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 12, 2018)

Similar experience here with the Takamura. Only thing I would add is despite it being thin, it is actually quite sturdy once you give the blade a touch up. I had some minor micro chipping initially but once I cleaned the edge up it has been really durable. Great knife for the money. Would definitely buy one again. 

While I have not used a hap40 kitchen knife I have a pocket knife that is hap40. Not terribly fond of it. It is very durable but a pain in the arse to sharpen.


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## krx927 (Jan 12, 2018)

One other thing about Takamura, the spine is really thin and it is not rounded. After my first work with the knife I realized that I need to round as it was it was just to sharp on my fingers.

But I would definitely not call this knife sturdy. It is quite flexy compared to other J knives -> it's a laser.


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## JaVa (Jan 12, 2018)

I have the Takamura R2 and the Kohetsu wa HAP40. I know these are frequently compared, but they shouldn't. The Takamura is a flawlessly made high performance laser with great reputation. The Kohetsu is non of those things. 

Mine was badly made with several manufacturing faults and even when those were corrected it's still a subpar performer. I've said this before, but they should never mentioned in the same sentence. 

I believe the Kazan is the same knife as the Kohetsu western version, but with the hammer finish. At least the vendor for the Kazan should be much more reliable.

I'm guessing you're after a laser and I think the western handle Kazan is a middleweight not a laser. From hese options the Takamura is by far the best option. It's a sensational cutter and holds it's own against any competition.

If you're OK with a middleweight gyuto with laser performance check out the Itinomonn stainLess Kasumi at JNS. I too bought into the hype off the Kohetsu a few years ago, but it wasn't at all what I thought. The Itinomonn is exactly the knife I was actually looking for.


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## K813zra (Jan 12, 2018)

krx927 said:


> One other thing about Takamura, the spine is really thin and it is not rounded. After my first work with the knife I realized that I need to round as it was it was just to sharp on my fingers.
> 
> But I would definitely not call this knife sturdy. It is quite flexy compared to other J knives -> it's a laser.



Mine isn't rounded but it is nicely eased not sharp. I could see where some might find that uncomfortable, particularly in such a thin knife too. I agree that it is not what I would call a sturdy knife.

I like it though.


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## krx927 (Jan 12, 2018)

K813zra said:


> Mine isn't rounded but it is nicely eased not sharp. I could see where some might find that uncomfortable, particularly in such a thin knife too. I agree that it is not what I would call a sturdy knife.
> 
> I like it though.





Not to make any doubts: I like the Takamura!


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

daveb said:


> Welcome.
> 
> What do you want your knife to do?
> 
> There is a which knife questionnaire at the top of this sub - if you answer it, you'll get answers based on your requirements.



Hello and thanks for ur answer. I would fill it but I actually need to compare those knives to figure out which would do. I have a ton of tasks for any knife daily, none is going wasted.
Also I get to want to try and own knives over and over again. I am looking to buy any purpose knife except sandoku.


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

K813zra said:


> I have only used the Takamura. It has great edge retention compared to most knives that I own. It is a very, very thin knife, probably the thinnest I have ever used. Comes with a very thin and fragile edge too. Sharpens fairly easy but not anywhere near as easy as carbon steel. It will exhibit some sticking but that is to be expected with a laser. The handle is a bit small and some do not like that, I do not mind. For reference, I use a size large glove. Maybe if you have larger hands it will bother you, I don't know. All in all it is a great knife for a great price.



Thanks for the intell! Will help me decide


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

Hanmak17 said:


> Similar experience here with the Takamura. Only thing I would add is despite it being thin, it is actually quite sturdy once you give the blade a touch up. I had some minor micro chipping initially but once I cleaned the edge up it has been really durable. Great knife for the money. Would definitely buy one again.
> 
> While I have not used a hap40 kitchen knife I have a pocket knife that is hap40. Not terribly fond of it. It is very durable but a pain in the arse to sharpen.



Thanks for replying to my thread. What cause the microchipping? Is it natural?


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

krx927 said:


> One other thing about Takamura, the spine is really thin and it is not rounded. After my first work with the knife I realized that I need to round as it was it was just to sharp on my fingers.
> 
> But I would definitely not call this knife sturdy. It is quite flexy compared to other J knives -> it's a laser.



Thanks for the post


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

JaVa said:


> I have the Takamura R2 and the Kohetsu wa HAP40. I know these are frequently compared, but they shouldn't. The Takamura is a flawlessly made high performance laser with great reputation. The Kohetsu is non of those things.
> 
> Mine was badly made with several manufacturing faults and even when those were corrected it's still a subpar performer. I've said this before, but they should never mentioned in the same sentence.
> 
> ...



Thanks for replying on my thread. Just to clear it out. I know that those knives aint the same, I just want to figure out (with your help) the pros/cons, the impressions of each knife so I get rid of the mess in my head and buy which makes sense after all the intell. Can you point out whats so wrong about the Kohetsu?
By the way, Takamura was my 1s option - i step back because it been called chippy and i still do not know, chippy how?
Hap40 is something a big retailer suggested me to try out, i havent got more info.


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## LucasFur (Jan 12, 2018)

Alexec said:


> chippy how?



The factory edge is probably the best factory edge I have ever gotten. But its far too thin for most peoples use, so it micro chips when you first use it on the board. 
After the first sharpening this problem will be gone and never happen again. 

I think takamura does it to show how acute they can get their knives, somewhat showing you what the steel is capable of for sharpness. If you've never had micro-chipping on your edge, you've never taken the angle of the knife to what it can really handle based on your use. So you are not extracting the most from your knife, basically the reason we buy high end knives. 

Get the takamura, get a 1k stone, and use and sharpen till its a nub in 10-60 years.


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

LucasFur said:


> The factory edge is probably the best factory edge I have ever gotten. But its far too thin for most peoples use, so it micro chips when you first use it on the board.
> After the first sharpening this problem will be gone and never happen again.
> 
> I think takamura does it to show how acute they can get their knives, somewhat showing you what the steel is capable of for sharpness. If you've never had micro-chipping on your edge, you've never taken the angle of the knife to what it can really handle based on your use. So you are not extracting the most from your knife, basically the reason we buy high end knives.
> ...


 I have 3 stones, naniwa professional. 400-1000-3000. I am not a great sharpener but Im getting educated and improved in a daily basis. Thats great, i thought microchipping was something destroying the knife. So im definitely getting the Takamura on my next salary  Do you think I should get the petty also?


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

I checked on Itinomonn, seems a good catch. Can you enlighten me more?


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## JaVa (Jan 12, 2018)

The Kohetsu blade design just isn't that great. It's basically flat on the left side which makes it almost a single bevel knife. There's a pronounced shoulder on the right side about 2 mm from the edge. The wa version is a thin middleweight which should make cutting effortless. but the blade geometry makes it steer heavily to the left and that shoulder makes it wedge. Add to that the fairly deep and coarse horizontal grind marks to add friction and there's not much joy in using the knife. 

It'll still cut better then any Euro/German chef knife, but worse then just about any J-knife. 

My knife had several defects like being bent in two places and low spots etc. The vendor wasn't interested and I had to fix it my self which was a pain. The combination of the ultra soft and grabby wear resistant SS cladding with the very hard core made it a nightmare. 

From your initial hit list I'm guessing your looking for an effortless performance cutter made from a modern PM SS (-ish) with high hardness and long edge retention. I was on that path a few years back. The Takamura is the way to go. Ticks all those boxes and has a superb reputation.

Edit.
While on that path I first bought the Kohetsu and wished I never did. I later bought the lovely Takamura which looking back should have been my first choice and I should've forgotten about the Kohetsu. But like you it was suggested to me too as a valid alternative to the Takamura. Lesson learned! :doublebanghead:


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## JaVa (Jan 12, 2018)

Alexec said:


> I checked on Itinomonn, seems a good catch. Can you enlighten me more?



The Itinomonn is the (exclusive) house brand of JNS. Made from a more traditional forged semi- SS which the vendor doesn't want to specify. it's a middleweight knife, but the thin behind the edge grind makes it cut like a laser. Edge retention is not quite as good as the PM steels, but still very good. On the stones it feels much more like a smooth carbon then SS. Get's very sharp very easy.

I like the long flat spot in the edge profile and the tip is one of the best I've seen. It's a definite keeper for life IMO.


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## LucasFur (Jan 12, 2018)

Alexec said:


> Do you think I should get the petty also?



My 150 petty is thin for what i like it for and its more of a utility knife. 
I do almost no work in hand, just a peeler and gyuto. 

BUT for the in hand work, i like a thicker blade, and i like more dull so it doesn't cut into my thumb so much. So im not a petty user to start with, but i think its too thin, too sharp, in the petty size. **Better get the opinion of a pro. or a heavy petty user** I know i was looking at the Zkramer R2 3.5" petty, but id rather put it towards more stones or gyutos:bliss:


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 12, 2018)

I was cutting green stems from some beets. I think i probably hadnt done a great job of cleaning and there may have been some dirt in the area. Not sure. I just happened to notice because blade was wet and I was under bright light, the contrast on the edge was very high. Noticed a few comments regarding my "sturdy" comment. I should clarify that I meant the edge seems sturdy after the touch up rather then the knife itself. Haven't seen any further micro chipping since. This is a super thin knife and does have a little flex. Really like this knife.


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 12, 2018)

PS I also bought the petty and agree, the petty is suicidal with the blade turned up. Definitely not a good idea. I'm using mine a fair amount but only board facing. Probably going to dull the edge a bit on the petty when I have a chance or use a shallower edge angle.


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

JaVa said:


> The Kohetsu blade design just isn't that great. It's basically flat on the left side which makes it almost a single bevel knife. There's a pronounced shoulder on the right side about 2 mm from the edge. The wa version is a thin middleweight which should make cutting effortless. but the blade geometry makes it steer heavily to the left and that shoulder makes it wedge. Add to that the fairly deep and coarse horizontal grind marks to add friction and there's not much joy in using the knife.
> 
> It'll still cut better then any Euro/German chef knife, but worse then just about any J-knife.
> 
> ...



Thanks once more mate


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

LucasFur said:


> My 150 petty is thin for what i like it for and its more of a utility knife.
> I do almost no work in hand, just a peeler and gyuto.
> 
> BUT for the in hand work, i like a thicker blade, and i like more dull so it doesn't cut into my thumb so much. So im not a petty user to start with, but i think its too thin, too sharp, in the petty size. **Better get the opinion of a pro. or a heavy petty user** I know i was looking at the Zkramer R2 3.5" petty, but id rather put it towards more stones or gyutos:bliss:



Thanks for sharing your intell


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

Hanmak17 said:


> I was cutting green stems from some beets. I think i probably hadnt done a great job of cleaning and there may have been some dirt in the area. Not sure. I just happened to notice because blade was wet and I was under bright light, the contrast on the edge was very high. Noticed a few comments regarding my "sturdy" comment. I should clarify that I meant the edge seems sturdy after the touch up rather then the knife itself. Haven't seen any further micro chipping since. This is a super thin knife and does have a little flex. Really like this knife.



So takamura gyuto it is!


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## Alexec (Jan 12, 2018)

Hanmak17 said:


> PS I also bought the petty and agree, the petty is suicidal with the blade turned up. Definitely not a good idea. I'm using mine a fair amount but only board facing. Probably going to dull the edge a bit on the petty when I have a chance or use a shallower edge angle.



I want to use 150petty as a board knife tho. Shallots, fast carving cuts and those kind of jobs. Still not worth?


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 12, 2018)

Alexec said:


> I want to use 150petty as a board knife tho. Shallots, fast carving cuts and those kind of jobs. Still not worth?



I think it would excel with that kind of stuff. As that guy on "forged in fire" says, this knife will cut.


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## Alexec (Jan 13, 2018)

Hanmak17 said:


> I think it would excel with that kind of stuff. As that guy on "forged in fire" says, this knife will cut.


Thanks again!


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## JaVa (Jan 13, 2018)

Just a thought, if you're interested in the Hap40 steel, why not get one from a reputable maker like Gihei. Those are getting a strong reputation. 
Or try to get your hands on a Sukenari HAP40. If you buy it from James @ K&S you'll get some of the best customer service to boot. 

There's also the SRS15 knives. Which is a somewhat comparable steel to HAP40. The Gesshin Kagero is worth a look and a lot of guys here love it and JKI is another great vendor.


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## Alexec (Jan 13, 2018)

JaVa said:


> Just a thought, if you're interested in the Hap40 steel, why not get one from a reputable maker like Gihei. Those are getting a strong reputation.
> Or try to get your hands on a Sukenari HAP40. If you buy it from James @ K&S you'll get some of the best customer service to boot.
> 
> There's also the SRS15 knives. Which is a somewhat comparable steel to HAP40. The Gesshin Kagero is worth a look and a lot of guys here love it and JKI is another great vendor.



Thanks for sharing my friend


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## rick alen (Jan 14, 2018)

I'll second the Kagero. SRS-15 doesn't get quite as sharp as R2 but it holds its sharp much much better.

So if you're doing board work, especially if your cutting beet tops (I never use my "sharp" knives like that anyways), then I'd say Kagero. It's not real thin at the edge, but that's an easy enough fix if you want.


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## Alexec (Jan 14, 2018)

rick alen said:


> I'll second the Kagero. SRS-15 doesn't get quite as sharp as R2 but it holds its sharp much much better.
> 
> So if you're doing board work, especially if your cutting beet tops (I never use my "sharp" knives like that anyways), then I'd say Kagero. It's not real thin at the edge, but that's an easy enough fix if you want.



First time i hear about this? Where can i see it?


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## rick alen (Jan 14, 2018)

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/gesshin-kagero


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## Alexec (Jan 14, 2018)

rick alen said:


> https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/gesshin-kagero



Thanks a lot mate ill take a look


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## Hanmak17 (Jan 15, 2018)

rick alen said:


> https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/gesshin-kagero



Damn, that is an expensive petty. Thanks for the post though, and I'll use my german petty for those beets in the future..lol.


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