# Sub 200 grit stone recommendation?



## Kiru (May 11, 2021)

Hi all,

Been looking around for a sub 200 grit stone as my shapton pro 120 is almost gone, and I have an Atoma 140 but not a huge fan of the cutting power after maybe 10 uses, it's mainly flattening for now.
I am from Sydney so if anything that's within Australia would be a huge plus for me.

There is two options in mind tho, Debado 180 and nanohone 200. Any other suggestions and thoughts on them?


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## 4phantom (May 11, 2021)

My suggestion would be the Suehiro Debado 180 from Migoto Cutlery located in Melbourne! I picked it up recently and although I'm pretty inexperienced, some other well known polishers like toishigram and lee use it to great success. 

You can see toishigram's review on it on his latest instagram post!


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## Kiru (May 11, 2021)

4phantom said:


> My suggestion would be the Suehiro Debado 180 from Migoto Cutlery located in Melbourne! I picked it up recently and although I'm pretty inexperienced, some other well known polishers like toishigram and lee use it to great success.
> 
> You can see toishigram's review on it on his latest instagram post!


The problem with Debado 180 is not much review out there mate, I dont think they've been around for that long......
How does the sharpening feel with the Debado 180?


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## 4phantom (May 11, 2021)

It works at a reasonable speed and doesn't dish quickly. That makes it a win for me. For polishing, I've also found it's fairly easy to get the 180 scratches moving up to a 300 grit stone. 

For edge sharpening, I've found it forms a burr relatively quickly and it's a stone that I'm overall very happy with. It also feels very nice to sharpen on, obviously it's still a coarse stone but still feels miles better than sharpening on a atoma 140.


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## Kiru (May 11, 2021)

4phantom said:


> It works at a reasonable speed and doesn't dish quickly. That makes it a win for me. For polishing, I've also found it's fairly easy to get the 180 scratches moving up to a 300 grit stone.
> 
> For edge sharpening, I've found it forms a burr relatively quickly and it's a stone that I'm overall very happy with. It also feels very nice to sharpen on, obviously it's still a coarse stone but still feels miles better than sharpening on a atoma 140.


Sick, thank you for your input, I will probably go with this one or just get another shapton plus a 60 grit diamond plate if I can get one.


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## DHunter86 (May 12, 2021)

I'd second the Debado 180 as well. It's been around a few years, but there's not much reviews on it. Possibly coz it's one of the more expensive stones in this grit range. That said, it's a good balance between cutting power and dishing. Feedback is nice, and scratch marks are shallow. 

Be careful about 60 grit diamond plates, as most reputable brands don't carry them. If sourcing from cheaper brands, be aware that the particles may not be uniform and may get stuck onto your stones - leaving deep gashes on your bevel or chipping your edge. I have a cheap 80 grit on from China that I've stopped using for that precise reason.


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## zizirex (May 12, 2021)

I use a Tanaka Toishi 150 grit. it's pretty hard and slow wearing, cuts okay, not too fast (SP 120 and NanoHone 200 is faster) and not slow, the finish is pretty fine for 150. it could load up once in a while. I use my Sharpton lapping disc to move the load up and help it to cut again.


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## Grayswandir (May 12, 2021)

Aren't these fixer stones? I have a King #300 grit splash & go that works great for fixing broken tips and things of that nature. What do you use these lower grit stones for aside from things like that, genuinely curious?


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## ian (May 12, 2021)

You use them to save time. Major tip repairs or thinning takes way too long on a 300. Similarly, if I'm sharpening customer knives that haven't been sharpened in years, I start super coarse because there's so much weak steel to remove and I don't want to spend more than 10 min total on the knife.


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## cotedupy (May 12, 2021)

I got a Norton SiC Coarse/Fine in Mitre 10 for about $40 AUS, and it's magic. I think the grits are rated about 140 and 400, though the finer side of mine feels a bit finer than that now. The 'Coarse' side eats metal in no time, and with a bit of practice the 'Fine' side will leave a knife pretty happily sharp after.

It is honestly a really good stone; it's fast, effectively doesn't dish ever, excellent for repair work, thinning, bevel setting or working on crappy steel.


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## Grayswandir (May 12, 2021)

ian said:


> You use them to save time. Major tip repairs or thinning takes way too long on a 300. Similarly, if I'm sharpening customer knives that haven't been sharpened in years, I start super coarse because there's so much weak steel to remove and I don't want to spend more than 10 min total on the knife.



I did a major tip repair (a few millimeters broken off the tip) to two different knives in about 20 minutes on my #300 stone. I guess if you're doing it for customers then every minute counts, that's a different story and it makes sense. I figured that using such an aggressive/low grit might leave marks that could wind up taking more time to get rid off? Apparently not all lower grit stones are created equal. Someone was talking about a #400 grit stone that was actually closer to #600 grit. Maybe my King is like that, but in the other direction?


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## ian (May 12, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> I did a major tip repair (a few millimeters broken off the tip) to two different knives in about 20 minutes on my #300 stone. I guess if you're doing it for customers then every minute counts, that's a different story and it makes sense. I figured that using such an aggressive/low grit might leave marks that could wind up taking more time to get rid off? Apparently not all lower grit stones are created equal. Someone was talking about a #400 grit stone that was actually closer to #600 grit. Maybe my King is like that, but in the other direction?



Idk, I'd expect the King to be around 300. At least the King 300 soaker I had at some point was like a 300. I'm sure your results can vary. Depends of course how much metal you're taking off. I usually fix tips by taking off a significant amount of the spine: enough so that there's still a gentle spine curve to the tip, rather than an abrupt santoku style spine curve. If you're fixing it by raising the edge, that'll be a lot quicker. Anyway, nowadays I do most of the work on a belt anyway.

Typically if the work is "major" I find it easier to clean up the scratches than to do the whole thing at a high grit.


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## DaM0w (May 12, 2021)

Love the nanohone 200 but it dishes fast and can be a b!+€h to flatten if you don’t stay in top of it


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## Grayswandir (May 12, 2021)

ian said:


> Idk, I'd expect the King to be around 300. At least the King 300 soaker I had at some point was like a 300. I'm sure your results can vary. Depends of course how much metal you're taking off. I usually fix tips by taking off a significant amount of the spine: enough so that there's still a gentle spine curve to the tip, rather than an abrupt santoku style spine curve. If you're fixing it by raising the edge, that'll be a lot quicker. Anyway, nowadays I do most of the work on a belt anyway.
> 
> Typically if the work is "major" I find it easier to clean up the scratches than to do the whole thing at a high grit.



The first time I ever fixed a tip I took off metal from the spine, but apparently that's the wrong way to go about it. I forget who, it could have been Murry Carter or someone similar, but they said to just grind the tip on a stone, with your elbow slightly elevated, and it will put on a new tip better then fooling around with the spine. I tried it, and sure enough it really did work pretty well and the shape looked a lot more natural and professional (easier too). You have to know what your doing if you're using a belt. I think the guy at Knife Merchant uses a belt, the young guy who does all their sharpening. If you're using a belt, do you use water to cool the blade, or is not necessary, depending on the technique you use?


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## branwell (May 12, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> If you're using a belt, do you use water to cool the blade, or is not necessary, depending on the technique you use?



Depends on the belt, grinder, and technique. 

If you have a variable speed belt grinder running at low speed and are running a fresh belt, its reasonably safe to sharpen on them with or without water provided you don't use a lot of pressure and slow draws. Water does provide a good safety margin.

That said, its worth remembering. 
The edge of the edge is less than a micron and pretty poor at dissipating heat.
The edge of the edge will friction heat almost instantly.
Steels like AEBL and its variants are tempered at 280F to 300F for kitchen knives, other steels as high 400F but mainly in the 350F to 375F range. This is not very hot.

In testing, I found it easy to friction heat edges well above the temper temperature and not feel any heat in the blade with my fingers.

My advice. One speed grinders like the Harbor Freight are a definitely no no unless you don't care about softening the edge. Variable speed grinders, use with caution.

Also high speed spinning wheels and buffers. Easy to toast edges on them.


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## Grayswandir (May 12, 2021)

You know Harbor Fright carries a Router Speed Control Dial. It works with other tools if you need variable speed control, you just have to make sure it matches the motor's output I believe. If you look it the comments section of people who have bought it, they talk about what it has worked with.

Router Speed Control Dial

I'm sticking with my hands. I was tempted to buy a piece of ATS-34 steel I saw on Amazon the other day, but I'm suspicious and don't have a lot of faith that it's really the real deal:

ATS-34 Steel Billet (annealed) 1/8" x 3" x 11-1/2": Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


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## ian (May 12, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> The first time I ever fixed a tip I took off metal from the spine, but apparently that's the wrong way to go about it. I forget who, it could have been Murry Carter or someone similar, but they said to just grind the tip on a stone, with your elbow slightly elevated, and it will put on a new tip better then fooling around with the spine. I tried it, and sure enough it really did work pretty well and the shape looked a lot more natural and professional (easier too). You have to know what your doing if you're using a belt. I think the guy at Knife Merchant uses a belt, the young guy who does all their sharpening. If you're using a belt, do you use water to cool the blade, or is not necessary, depending on the technique you use?



I usually find that doing it from the edge gives too much curve at the tip.** And it also makes the tip too fat, which is the bigger problem. The knife is a different thickness at the spine then at the edge. If you fix a tip by just raising the edge, the new thickness at the edge around the tip is going to be more like the spine thickness, rather than the edge thickness, unless you do some thinning. Plus, if you raise the edge you have to refinish the knife if it's going to look ok, which is a much bigger pain. Even if you don't thin near the tip, you're going to end up with a fat bevel there, which looks stupid.

Keeping the blade cool while using a belt is the bane of my life. In the winter, I would just stick the blade out my shed door into the snow. Gotta get a better belt sander. 




**of course, you can always make a less aggressive curve by sharpening more of the knife, changing the profile, but then you have to thin the entire knife.


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## ian (May 12, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> You know Harbor Fright carries a Router Speed Control Dial. It works with other tools if you need variable speed control, you just have to make sure it matches the motor's output I believe. If you look it the comments section of people who have bought it, they talk about what it has worked with.
> 
> Router Speed Control Dial



Hey, that's interesting! Wonder why I've never seen that mentioned before. Hmm. You'd think if you could add variable speed to your grinder with a $20 purchase, people would do that more often, since the variable speed ones are stupid expensive.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (May 12, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> You know Harbor Fright carries a Router Speed Control Dial. It works with other tools if you need variable speed control, you just have to make sure it matches the motor's output I believe. If you look it the comments section of people who have bought it, they talk about what it has worked with.


Those are for universal motors and operate as a voltage control. On an induction motor they will work poorly if at all and invite overheating of the motor. An induction motor operates on freq-slip. That's why variable frequency drives are used with induction motors


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## branwell (May 12, 2021)

ian said:


> Hey, that's interesting! Wonder why I've never seen that mentioned before.


There are a few vids on Youtube featuring people playing with them on various tools. It looks like the main problem with using them on things like grinders is that they end up lowering torque so much that the belt speed becomes very unstable at lower speeds, i.e its prone to stall so you end up tuning it up to where it isn't stalling at which point you are back into friction heating territory.


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## branwell (May 12, 2021)

Here's a guy sharpening with a 2x72 and a water spray. Gives a good idea of how slow the belts need to go to avoid heat issues.


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## ian (May 12, 2021)

That water spray thing is cool. Belt speed is probably like a tenth of mine.


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## Grayswandir (May 12, 2021)

> I usually find that doing it from the edge gives too much curve at the tip.** And it also makes the tip too fat, which is the bigger problem.



That's good info, thanks. I do think the tips do seem to have a bit more curve to them, but I only noticed since you brought it to my attention. The spine thickness seems okay, but that's definitely good to look out for as well. I like learning, so I appreciate it.


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## Grayswandir (May 12, 2021)

VICTOR J CREAZZI said:


> Those are for universal motors and operate as a voltage control. On an induction motor they will work poorly if at all and invite overheating of the motor. An induction motor operates on freq-slip. That's why variable frequency drives are used with induction motors



I'm not doubting you, but it seems to have worked for a few people. Maybe the had the type of motor you described?


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## Grayswandir (May 12, 2021)

branwell said:


> There are a few vids on Youtube featuring people playing with them on various tools. It looks like the main problem with using them on things like grinders is that they end up lowering torque so much that the belt speed becomes very unstable at lower speeds, i.e its prone to stall so you end up tuning it up to where it isn't stalling at which point you are back into friction heating territory.




I guess the best solution is to buy the correct tool in the first place. Sometimes you can get by with clever little work-arounds, but sometimes you can't. I'm thinking of trying it out to replace a foot pedal. If it doesn;t work properly I can always take it back. I don't want to do any damage to my motor though, so I'll look into what others have said.


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## branwell (May 12, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> I guess the best solution is to buy the correct tool in the first place. Sometimes you can get by with clever little work-arounds, but sometimes you can't. I'm thinking of trying it out to replace a foot pedal. If it doesn;t work properly I can always take it back. I don't want to do any damage to my motor though, so I'll look into what others have said.


 
I wonder if its possible to replace a drive pully to get a slower belt speed much the way one does on a bicycle?


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## M1k3 (May 12, 2021)

branwell said:


> I wonder if its possible to replace a drive pully to get a slower belt speed much the way one does on a bicycle?


Depends on the machine.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (May 12, 2021)

branwell said:


> I wonder if its possible to replace a drive pully to get a slower belt speed much the way one does on a bicycle?


I did this on one of the cheap 4 X 36 belt sanders. It works, but I've moved on.


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## Kiru (May 13, 2021)

zizirex said:


> I use a Tanaka Toishi 150 grit. it's pretty hard and slow wearing, cuts okay, not too fast (SP 120 and NanoHone 200 is faster) and not slow, the finish is pretty fine for 150. it could load up once in a while. I use my Sharpton lapping disc to move the load up and help it to cut again.


Let me look into Tanaka 150.... i don’t hear many people talk about it, hopefully they are available in Australia.


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## Kiru (May 13, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> I got a Norton SiC Coarse/Fine in Mitre 10 for about $40 AUS, and it's magic. I think the grits are rated about 140 and 400, though the finer side of mine feels a bit finer than that now. The 'Coarse' side eats metal in no time, and with a bit of practice the 'Fine' side will leave a knife pretty happily sharp after.
> 
> It is honestly a really good stone; it's fast, effectively doesn't dish ever, excellent for repair work, thinning, bevel setting or working on crappy steel.


Is this the one you are saying? Norton Combination Stone Bench 25 x 50 x 200mm

Bunnings sells something similar but they are oil stones, not a huge fan of oil stone because they are a bit messy...


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## Kiru (May 13, 2021)

I have considered to get a belt grinder, I use the low grit stone mainly to thin people’s knives.... and occasionally sharpen really dull knives 
Thinning is not a fun procedure and it’s for sure time consuming. 

a sharpening wheel would be in the consideration too








RYOBI Knife Blade Grinder Sharpener Polishing Machine | リョービ 刃物研磨機 180mm







www.shop.kurashige-tools.com




A bit too small I feel, the naniwa one would work better but way pricier

or








Heavy Duty Variable Speed Belt & Disc Sander/Sharpener


Heavy Duty Variable Speed Belt & Disc Sander/Sharpener. With 10 BELTS - Sonic




www.sonicsales.com.au






Unfortunately don’t have the space for a 2*72 right now.


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## cotedupy (May 13, 2021)

.


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## cotedupy (May 13, 2021)

Kiru said:


> Is this the one you are saying? Norton Combination Stone Bench 25 x 50 x 200mm
> 
> Bunnings sells something similar but they are oil stones, not a huge fan of oil stone because they are a bit messy...



That link's an Aluminium Oxide Version, which I think is not quite as aggressive as Silicon Carbide, which I have. This is my one: NORTON BEAR KS100 SILICON CARB LARGE COMB SHARPENING STONE COARSE/FINE 230x80x30 | eBay

It _is_ impregnated with oil, and I'm the same as you - I find it messy and annoying. (I got all the oil out of mine with hot water and dishwashing liquid and now use with water).


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## Kiru (May 13, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> That link's the Aluminium Oxide Version, which I think is not quite as aggressive as Silicon Carbide, which I have. This is my one: NORTON BEAR KS100 SILICON CARB LARGE COMB SHARPENING STONE COARSE/FINE 230x80x30 | eBay
> 
> It _is_ impregnated with oil, and I'm the same as you - I find it messy and annoying. (I got all the oil out of mine with hot water and dishwashing liquid and now use with water).


Oh okay, thanks mate! How do you find it with thinning? I am assuming the stone doesn’t dish much


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## Grayswandir (May 13, 2021)

I really liked the 2" belt sander that guy developed using suggestions from his subscribers. It was pretty clever to use a misting system as well, before I saw that I was thinking a small pump or drip system might work, but the misting idea is better idea. That cleaver sure is a monster! 



> Continuous speed control of a universal motor running on AC is easily obtained by use of a thyristor circuit, while multiple taps on the field coil provide (imprecise) stepped speed control. Household blenders that advertise many speeds frequently combine a field coil with several taps and a diode that can be inserted in series with the motor (causing the motor to run on half-wave rectified AC).



How do you think the Harbor Freight variable speed controller was built when compared with the method above?


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (May 13, 2021)

Kiru said:


> Bunnings sells something similar but they are oil stones, not a huge fan of oil stone because they are a bit messy...


Try them with water and propylene glycol, that's what I use on all my oil stones. Cutting is a little slower than oil, but without the mess.


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## zizirex (May 13, 2021)

Kiru said:


> Let me look into Tanaka 150.... i don’t hear many people talk about it, hopefully they are available in Australia.


you could special order it through your local Hitohira dealer. that's what I did last time.


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## Mikeltee (May 13, 2021)

Get yourself a Wen power sharpener if you are sharpening junk knives. You can take a dull knife to Magazine cutting sharp in a few minutes with the stone and Strop it comes with. Check out the reviews on YouTube. Its a Tomek knock off for $140.


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## jwthaparc (May 13, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> I did a major tip repair (a few millimeters broken off the tip) to two different knives in about 20 minutes on my #300 stone. I guess if you're doing it for customers then every minute counts, that's a different story and it makes sense. I figured that using such an aggressive/low grit might leave marks that could wind up taking more time to get rid off? Apparently not all lower grit stones are created equal. Someone was talking about a #400 grit stone that was actually closer to #600 grit. Maybe my King is like that, but in the other direction?


Heck I use a 60 grit stone when sharpening for customers. I just got I about a month ago, and in love with the thing. There is just one major thing wrong, and that's flattening. I have some 60 grit Sic powder, but it's not coarse enough, I need to get some courser powder.


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## Kiru (May 13, 2021)

Mikeltee said:


> Get yourself a Wen power sharpener if you are sharpening junk knives. You can take a dull knife to Magazine cutting sharp in a few minutes with the stone and Strop it comes with. Check out the reviews on YouTube. Its a Tomek knock off for $140.


How do you find it with thinning tho? I don't have any experience in terms of thinning with a wheel but i feel like it will create some sort of hollow grind. Please correct me if I am wrong


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## Kiru (May 13, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Heck I use a 60 grit stone when sharpening for customers. I just got I about a month ago, and in love with the thing. There is just one major thing wrong, and that's flattening. I have some 60 grit Sic powder, but it's not coarse enough, I need to get some courser powder.


How's your set up like for sharpening customer's knife?


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## jwthaparc (May 13, 2021)

Kiru said:


> How's your set up like for sharpening customer's knife?


 For a really rounded edge, or something with chips
60 grit sic (Bryxco manticore), 300 grit king, shapton 1000, then for kitchen knives I finish on an aoto, for pocket knives kitayama 8000.

For supersteels I go atoma 140, then the rest is venev resin bonded diamond stones 320/700 4000/8000. 

Then I have a few different combos and other stones I would use for different things, or if someone requested a certain type of edge.


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## Mikeltee (May 13, 2021)

Kiru said:


> How do you find it with thinning tho? I don't have any experience in terms of thinning with a wheel but i feel like it will create some sort of hollow grind. Please correct me if I am wrong


I don't own one but if I wanted to make money sharpening and a beater knife I would want to spend as least amount of time with it as possible. I just found out Wen makes a sharpener yesterday when researching track saws. I considered a Tomek before I bought my Wicked Edge. The video I saw was a pro trying it out and in 3 minutes he raised a burr on a dull cheap knife, got rid of the burr on the stone, then spent about 30 seconds on the leather wheel and then cut some Magazine paper like it was warm butter. $140 and yes... you would be creating a hollow grind but who cares... the person receiving it won't care nor know any different. You can use Tomek accessories and stones with it too.


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## Kiru (May 13, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> For a really rounded edge, or something with chips
> 60 grit sic (Bryxco manticore), 300 grit king, shapton 1000, then for kitchen knives I finish on an aoto, for pocket knives kitayama 8000.
> 
> For supersteels I go atoma 140, then the rest is venev resin bonded diamond stones 320/700 4000/8000.
> ...


Sick, do you get bulk kitchen knives sharpening order? I once got 18 knives from a cafe and by the end of it I felt like my shoulders were going to fall off lol


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## Kiru (May 13, 2021)

Mikeltee said:


> I don't own one but if I wanted to make money sharpening and a beater knife I would want to spend as least amount of time with it as possible. I just found out Wen makes a sharpener yesterday when researching track saws. I considered a Tomek before I bought my Wicked Edge. The video I saw was a pro trying it out and in 3 minutes he raised a burr on a dull cheap knife, got rid of the burr on the stone, then spent about 30 seconds on the leather wheel and then cut some Magazine paper like it was warm butter. $140 and yes... you would be creating a hollow grind but who cares... the person receiving it won't care nor know any different. You can use Tomek accessories and stones with it too.



Yeah you're not wrong, as long as it's sharp for cheap knives.... but when people give you fancier knives, the problem comes in haha, mind to link the video? I am keen to see how the knife looks like after sharpening on a wheel.


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## cotedupy (May 13, 2021)

Kiru said:


> Oh okay, thanks mate! How do you find it with thinning? I am assuming the stone doesn’t dish much



I find it pretty good for all sorts of stock removal. It's quite good in that both sides are quite quick so you can use the coarse for repair work or initial thinning, and then touch up with the fine side. And yeah - it basically doesn't dish. I've done quite a bit of big repair work with mine and never had to flatten it.

Here's a before an after of a recent repair for a friend who'd wanged a pretty sizeable chip into their 10" Sab. Took about 10 mins, including having to take a fair bit off the finger guard:


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## Kiru (May 13, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> I find it pretty good for all sorts of stock removal. It's quite good in that both sides are quite quick so you can use the coarse for repair work or initial thinning, and then touch up with the fine side. And yeah - it basically doesn't dish. I've done quite a bit of big repair work with mine and never had to flatten it.
> 
> Here's a before an after of a recent repair for a friend who'd wanged a pretty sizeable chip into their 10" Sab. Took about 10 mins, including having to take a fair bit off the finger guard:
> 
> ...


Cool! The reason why I ask is because I found Atoma 140 doesn't do anything for thinning(maybe because mine is old) 
I've been using files to remove larger amount of stock, for example the fingerguard.
Thanks for your recommendation!


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## jwthaparc (May 14, 2021)

Kiru said:


> Sick, do you get bulk kitchen knives sharpening order? I once got 18 knives from a cafe and by the end of it I felt like my shoulders were going to fall off lol


Sometimes. I think the most kitchen knives I've had at once was 12 or 14. But the same day someone else came in with 8. 

I get bulk of non knife stuff, I posted I the non knife sharp object thread, some of the wood chipper blades i was brought on tuesday. There were more that was just the only picture I took while I had them. A lot of what I get is people's pocket knives though.


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## jwthaparc (May 14, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> That link's an Aluminium Oxide Version, which I think is not quite as aggressive as Silicon Carbide, which I have. This is my one: NORTON BEAR KS100 SILICON CARB LARGE COMB SHARPENING STONE COARSE/FINE 230x80x30 | eBay
> 
> It _is_ impregnated with oil, and I'm the same as you - I find it messy and annoying. (I got all the oil out of mine with hot water and dishwashing liquid and now use with water).


I seriously recommend using glass cleaner, much less trouble than actual oil. At least for my Norton coarse/fine india stone it works perfectly.


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## Kiru (May 14, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> Sometimes. I think the most kitchen knives I've had at once was 12 or 14. But the same day someone else came in with 8.
> 
> I get bulk of non knife stuff, I posted I the non knife sharp object thread, some of the wood chipper blades i was brought on tuesday. There were more that was just the only picture I took while I had them. A lot of what I get is people's pocket knives though.


Mind to share the link?


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## jwthaparc (May 14, 2021)

Kiru said:


> Mind to share the link?







__





New Non Knife Sharp Object Thread


I recently bought a grown up smoker/grill combo. Turns out that the wood they sell for these offset smokers is too big. So I had to buy an axe too. Nobody told me how fun these things are.




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





Towards the end of tthe first page. They look like giant double sided plane blades.


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## cotedupy (May 14, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> I seriously recommend using glass cleaner, much less trouble than actual oil. At least for my Norton coarse/fine india stone it works perfectly.



Aye... I think I'll have to get myself some. You don't dilute it at all? Just spray on as it is?

(Water and a drop of dishwashing liquid works similarly I think...?)


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## Kiru (May 14, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/new-non-knife-sharp-object-thread.52534/page1#post-816851
> 
> 
> 
> Towards the end of tthe first page. They look like giant double sided plane blades.


Very fascinating stuff.


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## jwthaparc (May 14, 2021)

Kiru said:


> Very fascinating stuff.


Lol hold on.


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## jwthaparc (May 14, 2021)

Now try


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## jwthaparc (May 14, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Aye... I think I'll have to get myself some. You don't dilute it at all? Just spray on as it is?
> 
> (Water and a drop of dishwashing liquid works similarly I think...?)


Yep, just spray it on. I use the ammonia based stuff. I believe its along the lines of already watered down ammonia. Works wonders for me. I havent tried the dish soap one. I've heard about it, but this worked good enough that I never needed to do anything else. Again, that's with the norton india though.


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## inferno (May 14, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> I really liked the 2" belt sander that guy developed using suggestions from his subscribers. It was pretty clever to use a misting system as well, before I saw that I was thinking a small pump or drip system might work, but the misting idea is better idea. That cleaver sure is a monster!
> 
> 
> 
> How do you think the Harbor Freight variable speed controller was built when compared with the method above?



thyristor speed control can/will produce waveforms with sharp edges (and therefor lots of overtones). this can then get reflected back out on the net. this is not very good because it can interfere with lots of other stuff that is connected.

afaik it works by chopping off the top of the sinewave creating a flattish top.


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## jwthaparc (May 14, 2021)

inferno said:


> thyristor speed control can/will produce waveforms with sharp edges (and therefor lots of overtones). this can then get reflected back out on the net. this is not very good because it can interfere with lots of other stuff that is connected.
> 
> afaik it works by chopping off the top of the sinewave creating a flattish top.


What?


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## Grayswandir (May 15, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> What?



He was answering my question. We were talking about that Harbor Freight Variable Speed Control Dial.


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## inferno (May 15, 2021)

jwthaparc said:


> What?



yeah the quote didn't quote his quote properly. 

--------------

i had talk with one of the bosses at work on how to rpm control a 1 phase motor. he's an electrical engineer. 
he told me thyristor drives will work but not really that preferable since they push out too much crap back on the net. 
i guess it will work ok for low power stuff maybe up to a kW or so but i think for all higher power stuff they do frequency drives.

howeven i'm not sure you can frequency control a 1 phase brushless motor. at least not straight into it.
iirc i think i have seen some frequency drives for 1 phase motors that convert 1ph to 3ph. change freq. then convert back to 1ph.
sounds very expensive and complicated though.

on the basic kmg they have a belt pulley with 3 different diameters on the motor shaft. then another one but mounted in reverse that connects to the belt drive wheel. that way you get 3 speeds but still using the same length drive belt from the motor. 

this is probably the best alternative imo.


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## Grayswandir (May 16, 2021)

inferno said:


> yeah the quote didn't quote his quote properly.
> 
> --------------
> 
> ...



That's interesting, but I basically no nothing about motors to be honest. It's easy to learn a few interesting facts on the Internet, but other then that, I'm motor dumb. I'm just glad other people know more about it then I do, that way I don't wind up doing something stupid out of ignorance. The three pulley drive sounds like the best option, at least for more simple controls (three speeds) and no major modifications.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (May 16, 2021)

Grayswandir said:


> The three pulley drive sounds like the best option, at least for more simple controls (three speeds) and no major modifications.


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