# One Stone, but Which ?



## NO ChoP! (Jun 19, 2020)

I have a progression of Shapton glass and Naniwa Superstones. They get the job done. I like both series better in the lower grits. The Superstones clog super quick and are very prone to gouging. 

It is rare that I get the opportunity to do a full progression sharpening at work. I often pull out a 3k or 5k and just do quick touch ups. Sometimes I will splurge and run a few passes on a 500 first. That being said, I am very light with my knives in use, even though I work extended hours with a knife in hand. I am also a light sharpener; I come from the camp of the more you sharpen the more you will need to sharpen.
(At home I have a progression of the classic soakers that I use for more intense jobs) 

Loaded with this info, what is your perfect, single stone, splash and go, or close, for quick sharpen jobs at work?


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## ModRQC (Jun 19, 2020)

I would be tempted to say Shapton Pro 1K. It's a fast cutter/light thinner/bevel setter, can even work out a very dull blade, but will go about any refreshing/retouching very very fast. I just started to use the Naniwa Pro 800 and would be tempted to suggest that one because it will start coarse but the more you keep the mud the more you can refine it. The Shapton won't do that for you, which is why it is my suggestion: it's easy to maintain, doesn't create much mud if any, and I guess you don't have the time to work out the Naniwa's potential in your suggested use. The Shapton will keep it simple and is more forgiving on the drying cycle than Naniwa Pro.

Shapton 2K if you're sure you don't actually need to sharpen, but just touching up. Acts in between a coarse med and a coarse refiner. Almost instantly dislodges weakened parts of the edge, but need pressure to get a very fine burr, so you can bypass creating any quite easily and still work out a decent edge out of it... so I guess if the blade is not dull per say it can do touch ups very very fast.


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## kayman67 (Jun 19, 2020)

There's a topic about that one stone, with lots of answers. Naniwa Professional 800 was mentioned quite a few times. 

It's a matter of needs and preferences in the end.


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## daveb (Jun 19, 2020)

I kept a Gesshin 1/6K at work for awhile, almost splash and go, did nice job on my knives but was not as fast as I wanted for the house Wusties.

Went to SP 1000, and 2000. The 1000 could raise a burr on anything, while 2000 was great for touch ups and finishing.


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## kayman67 (Jun 19, 2020)

__





if you were allowed to only have 1 stone...


imagine this: you wake up one day and see the sink is full of mud. during the night the evil stone fairy was there and ground up all your stones on an atoma. and from now on you are only allowed to have 1 singe stone. otherwise the stone fairy comes back (and grinds away all your knives this...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





The topic. Maybe will ofer some useful info.


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## ModRQC (Jun 19, 2020)

daveb said:


> I kept a Gesshin 1/6K at work for awhile, almost splash and go, did nice job on my knives but was not as fast as I wanted for the house Wusties.
> 
> Went to SP 1000, and 2000. The 1000 could raise a burr on anything, while 2000 was great for touch ups and finishing.



From the behaviors of both SP - and I'm happy to see that I appraised them right from your similar opinion - I am wondering if the SP1500 could make the perfect bridge - and a very good single stone. Did you ever use one?


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## Benuser (Jun 19, 2020)

If the knives are well maintained a Chosera / Naniwa Pro 2k may work very well. Starts quite aggressively, refines during use and leaves a 3k edge.


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## daveb (Jun 19, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> From the behaviors of both SP - and I'm happy to see that I appraised them right from your similar opinion - I am wondering if the SP1500 could make the perfect bridge - and a very good single stone. Did you ever use one?



I've not used the SP1500. Had the 1000 for awhile (actually a Wat rebranded stone) and picked up the 2000 to augment it after similar discussions here. Liked them enough to add the SG500 and SP5000 to the Shapton pile - but hardly use the 5000 at all.


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## tostadas (Jun 19, 2020)

With my light home use, I typically like to do light touch ups on a Shapton Pro 2k. I do a lot of proteins, so I prefer the toothiness over my 5k.

edit: oops didn't read that you asked about pro use


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## ModRQC (Jun 19, 2020)

daveb said:


> I've not used the SP1500. Had the 1000 for awhile (actually a Wat rebranded stone) and picked up the 2000 to augment it after similar discussions here. Liked them enough to add the SG500 and SP5000 to the Shapton pile - but hardly use the 5000 at all.



Damn it! Gonna have to buy one and see for myself. Probably a good occasion to shell out some more money to try a SG500 - and yeah, the Naniwa Pro 2K. And the 3K is tempting too. No progression in mind, just stones.

When they'll all get here, I will sit in the middle of 10 different stones dressed like a hippie and tell anybody who asks: "I'm stoned but I'm still sharp".

Sorry OP. I think @Benuser suggestion is a very good one for touch ups, if not the SP2K. I like the edge from my NP800 better than one from SP1K or SP2K - perhaps it's the same with the NP2K. Perhaps it's my ill technique. 

I'm impressed with the SP2K however for how efficiently it refreshes an edge, and never tried the NP2K.


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## esoo (Jun 19, 2020)

I haven't used either of these options, but these are what come to mind:
- the Spyderco Ceramic Benchstones - say a fine which according to the Grand Unified Grit Chart is between the 2K and 3K Shaptons
- compound on balsa - simple but messy to carry.


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## Garm (Jun 19, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> I like the edge from my NP800 better than one from SP1K or SP2K - perhaps it's the same with the NP2K. Perhaps it's my ill technique.


We must share some similarities in technique. Actually, and this isn't hyperbole on my part, but I prefer the edges I get from just about every other stone I've tried in similar grits to the SP/Watanabe 1k and 2k.

For the OP; the only stone I've come across that could be a true one stone solution for me on a variety of knives is the Kohetsu 2k. Needs a short soak, but will handle any ordinary cutlery steel with speed and some finesse. Very aggressive and toothy, but it has some natural-like qualities to the edge. Depending on pressure it can really go from medium fast 1k speed to refined 2k finish with some natural-like push cutting abilities. Longest lasting edge I've ever produced was using only this stone on a Tanaka blue#2 gyuto. Apparently popular with people who break down fish in the Tsukiji market.
Only negative for some is the non-s&g nature, and the the only place to buy it rhymes with Chefswiveswhoblow.


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## pleue (Jun 19, 2020)

i really like the JKI diamond 1k. Seems to fit the bill and give a working toothy edge quickly and on the fly.


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## Ruso (Jun 19, 2020)

Since you already use 3K and 5K at work you need something lower for that quick job.
I have to echo Shapton Pro 1K or Naniwa Pro/Chosera 800 
Alternative King 1/6K combo stone or just King Deluxe 1K or 1.2K if you want something on a cheap side.


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## panda (Jun 19, 2020)

permasoaked gesshin 4k, just keep it in a 3rd pan. it will make your 3k and 5k obsolete.


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## soigne_west (Jun 19, 2020)

Gesshin 4K is so good. Can cut new bevels it’s so aggressive.


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## nexus1935 (Jun 23, 2020)

When you "touch up" your knives for maintenance on a 2k-5k stone, are you just stropping on the stones lightly? Or actually sharpening on those stones to a burr? Thanks!


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## Benuser (Jun 23, 2020)

I do exactly as with deburring. In my case by small edge leading strokes, but do just as you're used to. My favourite stone is Blue Belgian, the Coticule's neglected nephew, because its particles are almost rounded and won't raise a new burr as they remove the old one.


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## M1k3 (Jun 23, 2020)

I do edge leading. Just try to clean up the apex. Not create a burr.


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## ModRQC (Jun 23, 2020)

Stropping on a stone in the mid grits is always very dangerous when refreshing, that’s how burrs get raised. Even on higher grits it may not be the best idea until you know the effet of said stone on said steel.

Stropping is a good move to learn though when you actually want to sharpen - pin down that one swipe whole edge length. That’s how you flip your burr quickly to weaken it.


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## ModRQC (Jun 23, 2020)

Benuser said:


> I do exactly as with deburring. In my case by small edge leading strokes, but do just as you're used to. My favourite stone is Blue Belgian, the Coticule's neglected nephew, because its particles are almost rounded and won't raise a new burr as they remove the old one.



If I buy one more thing because of your advice I might make you pay for it...


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## nexus1935 (Jun 23, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Stropping on a stone in the mid grits is always very dangerous when refreshing, that’s how burrs get raised. Even on higher grits it may not be the best idea until you know the effet of said stone on said steel.
> 
> Stropping is a good move to learn though when you actually want to sharpen - pin down that one swipe whole edge length. That’s how you flip your burr quickly to weaken it.


For refreshing, do you go with a leather strop then? I've read different ideas of leather strops (or other surfaces like balsa wood) vs others using the stones to maintain knives. I'm just looking to keep an edge longer in between sharpenings.


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## ModRQC (Jun 23, 2020)

Sorry, my bad and I knew it.

By stropping I meant on a stone, and by it meant edge trailing strokes.

When you sharpen, truly sharpen to raise a burr and deburr, you should know that your edge leading moves help abrading at the edge, but your edge TRAILING moves do most of raising that burr. And that's okay - when sharpening. And it is thus wise - until you know so much better than you can skip on certain parts of the process and know what you're doing and I'm not there yet by the way so bear with an almost noob sharpener here - when sharpening that you'll weaken your burr once it got raised on both sides to your satisfaction with edge TRAILING - "stropping" motions.

My bad was that stropping pretty much goes both ways... some will strop trailing, some leading, and they will all have a reason and experience to back their ways and that is fine. They use a gazillion different medias, and compounds even. But usually "stropping" is the idea of an edge trailing motion to smooth the edge - or in sharpening, to flip the burr.

Forget about "stropping" and replace with EDGE TRAILING. Think stones. Read my previous reply again. Avoid edge trailing when you're refreshing, you don't want a burr, that would mean a whole deburring process. You want to just clean/refine. Short/light edge leading ONLY will do that without ever raising a burr. Even the lightest edge TRAILING could mess your job up on a so fine level you wouldn't feel for it with fingers - but have a failing edge when going cutting. And when people say "failing" edge it's rarely so bad that the whole edge fails - just the parts that still got a microscopic but consistent burr attached.

If I've still left you with confusion only, please say so. I'd be happy to tell you those things using the most righteous vocabulary just to make sure.


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## ModRQC (Jun 23, 2020)

About stropping - and the whole idea of leather and balsa and cardboard and newspaper even - what you have to understand is that people do that as you meant it when they're done sharpening on the stones, to refine their edge. And yes, getting good at it as they do, they might want to switch a stone to maintain to a stropping media instead. But mind you, that stropping media will use compound. You don't do much good to an edge that's in between sharp and dull with just the "bare" stropping media. You need some abrasive power, and that's what the compound does. But what I came to understand reading the pros is that you can go a thousand different BAD ways of stropping to only about a handful good ones. That will mean, among other aspects, knowing your angles very very much, and depending if leading or trailing, adjust not to round your edge; knowing the effects of different compounds and if that, of the bare media too, for what you need.

Stones are simpler. You need to know your stones to sharpen, and when you get to know them, you can refresh quite correctly with a single angle - your sharpening one - and the right level of pressure for the stone/steel at hand. That is simple too because you know these stones, and you've sharpened this knife. Edit: Of course, that would be using only edge LEADING strokes, and ideally, in a single motion that touches from heel to the very tip. That right there is something of a monster to just get right - for every knife profile you have to do.


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## nexus1935 (Jun 23, 2020)

Thanks for the detailed explanation @ModRQC! The edge trailing vs edge leading impact to raising a burr makes complete sense now, and I get why @Benuser and @M1k3 also suggested edge leading strokes.

I also appreciate the insight on stropping media and compounds. I've done a bit of reading on it and it seems like a whole other rabbit hole to go down - so many different combinations and perspectives on what works. I need to get better with sharpening/deburring in general on the stones I have, as I'd be worried about messing up the edge on any type of stropping media (and I probably wouldn't know where I'm going wrong until I get more experience with the basics).


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## M1k3 (Jun 24, 2020)

Worry about an actual strop once you get consistently sharp edges off the stone.


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## ModRQC (Jun 24, 2020)

A man of my own mind!

I trust you’ll do much better within a couple more sessions with stones if you just focus on them as your main and true sharpening media, understand their immediate workings, and forget about all the surrounding buzz but getting great results... if you allow me saying so much.

Treat yourself with your best steel/best knife. Get it crazy sharp. Feel awesome about yourself, and benefit from the relaxing vibes of those somewhat scary rectangles of joy.


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## corygrapher (Jun 24, 2020)

Chosera 800 is my pick


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## Qapla' (Jun 24, 2020)

ModRQC said:


> Damn it! Gonna have to buy one and see for myself. Probably a good occasion to shell out some more money to try a SG500 - and yeah, the Naniwa Pro 2K. And the 3K is tempting too. No progression in mind, just stones.



Why not instead first identify what sort of sharpening one seeks to do and on what sorts of blades, and then pick a stone based on that?



ModRQC said:


> When they'll all get here, I will sit in the middle of 10 different stones dressed like a hippie and tell anybody who asks: "I'm stoned but I'm still sharp".


That kind of "stoned" should be done _after_ doing the knife sharpening.


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## soigne_west (Jun 24, 2020)

Back to the topic, I recently picked up the morihei 3000. It’s splash and go, though suggested to give a 2-3 min soak, it’s not the fastest or most aggressive (which you might prefer with your sharpening style) it has great feedback, is good for wide bevel work, and leaves a pretty toothy edge. Plus it’s around $58. @NO ChoP! i think it ticks most of your boxes.


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## NO ChoP! (Jun 24, 2020)

I ended up going with Sigma Power ii 3000k.


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## kayman67 (Jun 24, 2020)

Nice stone. Needs a bit of soaking.


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## Cloudsmoker (Jun 24, 2020)

My favorite new stone is the synthetic JNS Aoto (I‘ve got the blue), and I think it’s perfect for the need you describe. It’s splash/go, in that +/- 3k range, and with the different grit particles It can clean up as aggressively or lightly as needed. My heavy knife use tends to be larger BBQ cooks, prep trimming and slicing, and just a few minutes on each blade afterwards gets them primed for the next time.


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## ModRQC (Jun 24, 2020)

Qapla' said:


> Why not instead first identify what sort of sharpening one seeks to do and on what sorts of blades, and then pick a stone based on that?



Good question - The answer being that it’s not that simple, but to an extent people get to do what you say, perhaps not on their very first set of stones because they’re mostly focused on grits of a progression and «what’s good at such grits for money », but eventually as they gain experience they will remark for themselves : my 4K is nice with carbons but sucks with semi/super steels, my coarse thins well but I hate having to sharpen from it, my mid doesn’t give me as much feeling as my two others etc. etc.

That’s when you get in the second zone, and it’s not only the kind of edge wanted for a given steel/use, but sometimes wanting to reciprocate the feeling of another stone they like better but different grit, or wanting a S&G because they finally hate having to soak first, and etc etc.

Also it’s all hearsay - what a stone does best. Not written on the box. Here the hearsay is quite developed and tangible, but still perhaps a member says something about a stone like « it’s so good to get such edge on such steels, and also to do such kind of work on such steels. What he doesn’t say however, because the situation doesn’t call for it, is that he perma-soaks. Now you take the advice, get the stone, but your time is always limited and you simply soak it - not quite long enough to top that. Nothing of what the member told you works for you - because conditions of use are different but you were not aware.

It’s an example, perhaps a bit long-winded, but it comes to say that to do what you suggest is hearsay, depends on other factors than the stones like also technique, and that they are many options available.

That’s when you start just wanting to try some specific stones not so much for a specific case, but because they are considered remarkable in their range and you’re just mostly curious, and then other stones seem interesting for very specific use only and you won’t know until you try it, and there goes the rabbit hole.


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## ModRQC (Jun 24, 2020)

Character comes into play too. Some perhaps are very focused and utilitarian people, they’ll get the minimum amount of stuff that does what they want. And a thousand different minds. I for one am focused, but I am a very curious and inquisitive person by nature, and a Thomas: I need to try. I know it won’t make me better, I know I might think nothing much of it in the end, I know I don’t need it, but I really genially want to try it. I want to expand my field of view/experience. I want more theory to coincide with practice, and vice-versa. It somehow is how I keep alive.


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