# Miyabi knife ownership



## AGC8 (Jan 27, 2020)

I'm curious to hear from owners who've had their knives for over 6 months. maybe a few years. What they've done to keep their knives sharp. Were you "masters" using the whetstones? Do you take the knives to a "qualified" local JP knife sharpening man whom you KNOW has sharpened Miyabi's (9-degree angled bevel knives), Yaxell/Enso's at 10-degrees..

Do you (Miyabi knife owners) just accept the fact that the factory angles of 9-degrees will be gone after the first sharpening? Being that there is no device (that I know of to date..Jan 27 2020) that can do 9-degree bevels. Electric or manual. Did you buy the knives knowing this?


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## ian (Jan 27, 2020)

There's nothing Miyabi specific about your question. Don't stress about about the factory angle --- it's not important. Buy a whetstone and learn how to use it. There are lots of resources on the topic, e.g. Jon Broida's videos on youtube. You could take it to a local (be sure they're using whetstones, not some sort of fancy apparatus or powered wheel), but it'll be so much better and cheaper to just learn to do it yourself.


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## AGC8 (Jan 27, 2020)

ian said:


> There's nothing Miyabi specific about your question. Don't stress about about the factory angle --- it's not important. Buy a whetstone and learn how to use it. There are lots of resources on the topic, e.g. Jon Broida's videos on youtube. You could take it to a local (be sure they're using whetstones, not some sort of fancy apparatus or powered wheel), but it'll be so much better and cheaper to just learn to do it yourself.


Nothing miyabi specific?? I asked what Miyabi owners are doing to keep their knives sharp.... If they were already experienced using whetstone.. Etc. Did they take their knives to a qualified pro...

Many owners but for the status of openin them... Aren't knife heads... Have no intention of Lennonk to use stones or were experienced..

Was just interested to hear from owners..


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## jferreir (Jan 27, 2020)

I don't understand the question... ? What makes a Miyabi fundamentally different than any other knife?


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## AGC8 (Jan 27, 2020)

jferreir said:


> I don't understand the question... ? What makes a Miyabi fundamentally different than any other knife?


Very true.

As I said many buy just to have something to show off with at dinner parties. Usually but the knife sets.


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## ian (Jan 27, 2020)

AGC8 said:


> Nothing miyabi specific?? I asked what Miyabi owners are doing to keep their knives sharp.... If they were already experienced using whetstone.. Etc. Did they take their knives to a qualified pro...
> 
> Many owners but for the status of openin them... Aren't knife heads... Have no intention of Lennonk to use stones or were experienced..
> 
> Was just interested to hear from owners..



My point is that a Miyabi is no different from any other mass produced knife made out of reasonable quality stainless... you're not going to get any useful information that's specifically about Miyabis in this thread.

(edit: unless the point of this thread is to get inside of the minds of people who own Miyabis, for some reason. If you're a criminal profiler trying to solve a crime done recently with a Miyabi, I apologize for my off topic responses.)


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## AGC8 (Jan 27, 2020)

ian said:


> My point is that a Miyabi is no different from any other mass produced knife made out of reasonable quality stainless... you're not going to get any useful information that's specifically about Miyabis in this thread.
> 
> (edit: unless the point of this thread is to get inside of the minds of people who own Miyabis, for some reason. If you're a criminal profiler trying to solve a crime done recently with a Miyabi, I apologize for my off topic responses.)


User experiences.


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## Kristoffer (Jan 27, 2020)

AGC8 said:


> I'm curious to hear from owners who've had their knives for over 6 months. maybe a few years. What they've done to keep their knives sharp. Were you "masters" using the whetstones? Do you take the knives to a "qualified" local JP knife sharpening man whom you KNOW has sharpened Miyabi's (9-degree angled bevel knives), Yaxell/Enso's at 10-degrees..
> 
> Do you (Miyabi knife owners) just accept the fact that the factory angles of 9-degrees will be gone after the first sharpening? Being that there is no device (that I know of to date..Jan 27 2020) that can do 9-degree bevels. Electric or manual. Did you buy the knives knowing this?



In all friendliness; perhaps giving a little bit more context or background to your question could help? Something such as “I bought a Miyabi some months ago and am curious to hear other users’ experience” or “I work for a company that sells Miyabi knives and am keen to hear from our users”.

9 degree factory edges on stainless knives ought to be relatively common with other brands as well?

There should also be plenty of information available using the search function on how factory edges are regarded (and replaced).


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## YumYumSauce (Jan 27, 2020)

Hmm, miyabi owners seem to not maintain their knives....jk, can only speak for one user so far. I sharpened a co-workers miyabi last week. Dont think it's ever been sharpened. I could run the blade across my arm without cutting myself. Took me a good 30-40 mins to get it nice and sharp.


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## AGC8 (Jan 27, 2020)

YumYumSauce said:


> Hmm, miyabi owners seem to not maintain their knives....jk, can only speak for one user so far. I sharpened a co-workers miyabi last week. Dont think it's ever been sharpened. I could run the blade across my arm without cutting myself. Took me a good 30-40 mins to get it nice and sharp.


This was the kind of reply I was looking to hear. As I said I was just curious. I don't own Miyabi knives or see myself buying them and time soon. Whick isn't too say I never will. i never say never. For me, they would be overkill. The extra out of the box sharpness or being able to keep a sharper the means little at home. At most idI buy the Zwilling Pro series knives.

I just wondered if most Miyabi owners were experienced whetstone sharpeners. Or if they were like the many who buy sets. B For sure.


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## inferno (Jan 27, 2020)

most people experienced with stones probably use other knives more often than miyabis. 

if you want to keep your miyabi sharp (much sharper than factory) you should look into the spyderco sharpmaker. very good for beginners imo. and no it doesn't do 9deg per side.


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## EveneshBBQ (Jan 27, 2020)

I own two. 8" birchwood gyuto and a 5.5" black petty that was recently aquired here from a fellow forum member but it wasnt used yet so our focus it the gyuto. It was used daily for a few hours in a high volume kitchen as a "laserish", accurate, prep knife, sharpened on whetstones up to 8000 grit weekly. I keep my knives razor sharp, don't care about the angle that much nor can I measure it accurtely (10 to12 i guess), for me my angle just works. I could probably strop it daily but it is just not a part of my routine. 
It is very well made. FF imo is far superior to handmade knives, and yes, it lacks in "soul" parameter if it is important to you. The handle is spotless out of box, but can get that "used" darker look after some time, and also I prefer thicker, beefier handles (my workhorse is a Misono 240 dragon and its handle fits me perfectly). Other than that - nothing special that you cannot say about yaxell, or, perhaps, zanmai. Good VFM, nice knife to have if you are a beginner, as a first step before buying more expensive and interesting tools. Hope this helps.


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## AGC8 (Jan 27, 2020)

EveneshBBQ said:


> I own two. 8" birchwood gyuto and a 5.5" black petty that was recently aquired here from a fellow forum member but it wasnt used yet so our focus it the gyuto. It was used daily for a few hours in a high volume kitchen as a "laserish", accurate, prep knife, sharpened on whetstones up to 8000 grit weekly. I keep my knives razor sharp, don't care about the angle that much nor can I measure it accurtely (10 to12 i guess), for me my angle just works. I could probably strop it daily but it is just not a part of my routine.
> It is very well made. FF imo is far superior to handmade knives, and yes, it lacks in "soul" parameter if it is important to you. The handle is spotless out of box, but can get that "used" darker look after some time, and also I prefer thicker, beefier handles (my workhorse is a Misono 240 dragon and its handle fits me perfectly). Other than that - nothing special that you cannot say about yaxell, or, perhaps, zanmai. Good VFM, nice knife to have if you are a beginner, as a first step before buying more expensive and interesting tools. Hope this helps.


Thanks for telling me about your usage in a pro kitchen. But like I said my knives are used at home. So getting Miyabi make no practical sense for me. Most likely will get some Zwilling Pro knives. Want the more rounded belly on their"original"chefs knife (vs "traditional") where the top is closer to the spine. Fire better rocking motion. Good enough for me.


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## TSF415 (Jan 27, 2020)

I believe all Miyabi users are also master sharpeners.


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## James (Jan 27, 2020)

AGC8 said:


> Thanks for telling me about your usage in a pro kitchen. But like I said my knives are used at home. So getting Miyabi make no practical sense for me. Most likely will get some Zwilling Pro knives. Want the more rounded belly on their"original"chefs knife (vs "traditional") where the top is closer to the spine. Fire better rocking motion. Good enough for me.



To each his own. Miyabi is a solid introduction to the realm of japanese knives. My first "good" knife was a Henckels Pro S; I used it for a few months, upgraded it and never touched it again. I found it to be harder to sharpen due to the edge thickness and bolster.


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## AT5760 (Jan 27, 2020)

My experience is similar to James’s. I used a set of Henckels Pro S knives for several years. I upgraded about a year ago and the only knives I use from that set now are a 3” paring knife and a bread knife. 

If you are interested in knives as quality kitchen tools, ask around here. There are lots of other, affordable options for home users.


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## AGC8 (Jan 27, 2020)

James said:


> To each his own. Miyabi is a solid introduction to the realm of japanese knives. My first "good" knife was a Henckels Pro S; I used it for a few months, upgraded it and never touched it again. I found it to be harder to sharpen due to the edge thickness and bolster.


It's because of the full bolster I'm not considering the Professional S. Will eventually get in the way and require grinding down the bolster too.. SingingA you have the tools.

Rhky from Burrefrctio used a Miyabi Birchwood SG2 gyuto to prep dog food.


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## drsmp (Jan 27, 2020)

I’ve had both and much prefer the Miyabi - especially the Birchwood. You can get then new on eBay for about half retail. The SG2 will stay sharp for a long long time for a home cook. Mail them to a reputable shop that sells and sharpens J knives if you don’t want to learn to sharpen yourself. Online videos,a decent 1K waterstone and some patience is all you need to learn to sharpen


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## AGC8 (Jan 27, 2020)

drsmp said:


> I’ve had both and much prefer the Miyabi - especially the Birchwood. You can get then new on eBay for about half retail. The SG2 will stay sharp for a long long time for a home cook. Mail them to a reputable shop that sells and sharpens J knives if you don’t want to learn to sharpen yourself. Online videos,a decent 1K waterstone and some patience is all you need to learn to sharpen


Yep good advice. We have several established JP knife shops that sharpen. Offer classes. I'm sure I could mail the knives to them. Though there is another within driving distance. She's use whetstone. Just don't know how good he is. Could "test him with one of my cheap knives.

Miyabi Birchwood or Black?  Hmmm...

Seriously I think I'll start with the Zwilling Pro.

Take care.


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## drsmp (Jan 27, 2020)

The black Damascus is rough and drags , it’s heavier and is also more expensive.
The Zwilling are OK but won’t hold an edge for as long, thicker and heavier. I bought a set for my last GF and cooked there on weekends and missed the Birchoods. Definitely had to sharpen hers every few months. Buy one of each chef off eBay use them for a while and resell the 2nd place knife on eBay.


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## bahamaroot (Jan 27, 2020)




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## lemeneid (Jan 27, 2020)

Do you absolutely have to purchase a Miyabi? I know we're beating a dead horse with this, but at that price point, you could get many other better knife options. Not saying its a bad knife, but there are nicer knives out there.


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## parbaked (Jan 27, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Do you absolutely have to purchase a Miyabi, there are nicer knives out there.


TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF


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## lemeneid (Jan 27, 2020)

parbaked said:


> TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF


That’s out of the price range though


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## parbaked (Jan 27, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> That’s out of the price range though


Nashiji FTW


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## TSF415 (Jan 27, 2020)

I feel someone’s just trolling 

As in there’s plenty of helpful people around here but I think someone’s just looking for reactions as opposed to suggestions.


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## AGC8 (Jan 27, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Do you absolutely have to purchase a Miyabi? I know we're beating a dead horse with this, but at that price point, you could get many other better knife options. Not saying its a bad knife, but there are nicer knives out there.


No and was I said. I'm going with Swimming Pro.

On the other hand Miyabi has non SG2 versions of the Birchwood line for about half the cost.

Then there's the Red Morimito line. Uses German steel. 9-12 degree bevel..


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## drsmp (Jan 27, 2020)

Why even ask questions if you dismiss and argue with all the advice you’re given? Bizarre


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## Brian Weekley (Jan 27, 2020)

I’ve owned a Myabi Black Santoku for three years. I use it regularly. It’s in my non-rotating block. It holds a decent edge for a long period of time. When it needs touching up I use the same stones that I use for my other knives. I typically start with a Chosera 800, move to a Chosera 3000 and finish with a 5000 (popular but can’t remember the name). I finish on a strop ... Flexcut gold then plain leather. I use the strop for maintenance. I believe it is ZDP189 steel. I have other knives with ZDP189 steel and find that they pretty much respond to the stones like other stainless knives. Not my favourites, but not a big deal.

Most of my knives are fully reactive. Where my Myabi Black comes in is when I have to do something quickly and can’t take the time to properly dry the knife. It is a beautifully finished automated production line knife which is completely devoid of personality. Unlike the knives I love, I can replace it exactly any time from a hundred different retailers. Despite the fact that it’s beautifully finished I wouldn’t recommend it to anybody I can think of. It’s too expensive to buy a complete set or give as a gift. It requires stone skills to sharpen properly and I don’t think would react well to carbide “V” draw sharpeners or power sharpeners. Why did I buy it? ... I was curious. Why don’t I sell it?... I have a use for it and I don’t generally sell my knives.

When I sharpen it I let my fingers set the angle. I doubt that I sharpen at 9 degrees or anywhere near there. My guess is that I’m at about 20 degrees. Maybe a little less. A micro bevel and strop maybe a little less. When it gets dull ... if you can call any of my knives dull ... I sharpen it. I think a lot is made about angles. I think a lot of that is hype so I don’t worry about it but I can tell you this ... cut yourself on one of my knives the only good thing is that it will be a VERY clean cut.


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## Benuser (Jan 27, 2020)

That sharpening angle is above all a marketing point with German makers. They advertise angles their poor steel hardly takes and barely holds. As long as they stay with Krupp's 4116 an inclusive angle under 35° makes no sense. By its structure it is just not possible to get a stable edge at 13° as Wüsthof advertises — without being capable of properly deburring those edges, by the way. Poor customer. 
Miyabi has entered in that same game. They're part of the Zwilling / Henckels group, strongly focused on the German market. 18° inclusive is very low, and will only work if there is no board contact and require a very cautious use. The edge of a chef's knife will crumble in daily use.
Japanese makers don't advertise sharpening angles. It would make little sense, as the requirements are different with the use and an end-user will put his own one on it, ASAP.
Common values are around 10-12° on the right side, and 15-20° on the left, 25-30° inclusive.
I would suggest to keep a blade very thin behind the edge, and put a rather conservative final edge on it. Performance won't be affected but edge retention will hugely benefit.
Factory edges are rarely meant to be actually used, and shouldn't be the object of any particular veneration.
Traditionally Japanese makers used to deliver the knifes without an edge. The end-user was supposed to put his own one on it, or have it done, at his costs, by the retailer. Things has changed, especially by the export, and now there's an edge on it. That's all you can say about it. Don't expect a knife of $150 to have been sharpened on a progression of stones. What you get is unpredictable and often weak due to bad buffering. Fatigued steel on the edge of a brand new knife, indeed. Best thing you can do is getting rid of it. I take a coarse stone.
Some other makers put a very thin edge on it to ease the work by the final user. I've seen a 12° inclusive edge, symmetric, both sides at 6° with a Honesuki. Smart, as long as nobody will use it that way. With a few strokes it got an edge adapted to its actual use. 
With an existing, well maintained knife you know you may splendidly ignore all angles and asymmetry as long as you're fine with an existing configuration. You start on one side with the lowest angle and raise it little by little until you've reached the very edge and raised a clear, obvious burr. Do the same with the other side and that's it. Well, some stropping and deburring will occur but you got the idea, I hope.
No such a thing with a brand new or unknown knife. You have no reference you may rely on. 
I would create on the right side a convex bevel ending at some 12°. You can hardly see the very edge. Use a marker and a loupe to make sure the old edge is entirely gone and you're not just accumulating debris on top of it. Some knives have a micro-bevel you wouldn't notice otherwise. Stay as long as needed with your coarsest stone. 
As for the left side, as for now you put a straight bevel on it, at a high angle, to completely remove the old one, deburr and compensate for steering. Probably just a few strokes will do. Again, use your marker and loupe and see what you're doing.
Some retailers offer a free initial stone sharpening. Ask for it.


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## Nagakin (Jan 29, 2020)

Miyabi Artisan Chef's 9.5" was my first knife ever. I don't know how many times I ruined the edge learning how to sharpen before eventually getting it back to where it was. Definitely hit the stones waaay more than recommended. Was also abusing the hell out of it in high volume kitchens all the while. No real noticeable loss in material.

Knives are tough and built to last a looong time. If a single knife survived a whole learning curve on the stone unscathed then you have nothing to worry about aside from scratches, if that's even a concern.


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## inferno (Feb 1, 2020)

i heard miyabis used to be 8 degrees and not 9. but it got illegal to make 8 degree edges in japan after french chef in a michelin restaurant accidentally chopped off both his arms at the elbows with a miyabi a few years ago. 
the knives were simply too sharp and therefore dangerous. i think these are now classified as destructive devices in japan. 

i heard this from mr miyabi himself.


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## Kai (Feb 2, 2020)

A good point. I consider myself lucky then, losing only one of my arms! The knife now stays unused in a drawer where it will not hurt anyone, but was a very useful tool when I was starting out. The birchwood is, undoubtedly, very nicely crafted but lacking the soul others talk about. It can cut absolutely anything that comes its way, so if you do end up getting it, you will enjoy it. Hopefully it will lead you down the path to more - and more interesting - knives. They are all fun to explore and play with.

Weird thread, all.


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## Michi (Feb 2, 2020)

There is a lot of dislike around for brands such as Miyabi and Shun. I agree that these knives don't have a "soul" the same way that a hand-crafted knife has. It's sort of like the difference between a Picasso painting and a print of a Picasso painting.

There is also a threatening aspect to this. A high-quality mass-produced knife has all the variables eliminated. With modern manufacturing techniques and extra-precise control, we can make things that are objectively better than any human can make them. Perfect hardening temperature, perfect tempering, perfect fit and finish, etc. And it's possible to bring the price down to a point that is impossible to reach with small-scale hand-crafting.

Mass-produced knives can rival all but the most exotic of hand-crafted knives, at a far lower cost. To an enthusiast, this can represent a threat, in the sense that it challenges the wisdom of spending so much more on a hand-crafted knife that, for meal preparation, likely performs only marginally better. 

Of course, charm and character are lost in mass production, and a factory-made knife is nothing special because thousands of other people have the exact same one.

Despite this, I enjoy my mass-produced Shun and Zwilling Kramer knives. They are good knives that work well. And nowhere near as pretty and full of personality as my Saji or Kitaoka or Masamoto ones. Take your pick…


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## TSF415 (Feb 2, 2020)

Michi said:


> There is a lot of dislike around for brands such as Miyabi and Shun. I agree that these knives don't have a "soul" the same way that a hand-crafted knife has. It's sort of like the difference between a Picasso painting and a print of a Picasso painting.
> 
> There is also a threatening aspect to this. A high-quality mass-produced knife has all the variables eliminated. With modern manufacturing techniques and extra-precise control, we can make things that are objectively better than any human can make them. Perfect hardening temperature, perfect tempering, perfect fit and finish, etc. And it's possible to bring the price down to a point that is impossible to reach with small-scale hand-crafting.
> 
> ...


I don’t think this was a poop on shun and miyabi thread. It was just the OP post was weird and when given advice, he didn’t want to hear it. I don’t hate mass produced factory knives but for the price range I’d prefer something different. Now when I find one for 50% off I don’t mind buying and using.


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## Benuser (Feb 2, 2020)

Not sure if mass production allows the best heat treatment.


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## Brian Weekley (Feb 2, 2020)

One of my greatest pleasures is to sit down with one or two of my knives and a glass of wine and simply admire the craftsmanship. I reflect on how I use it and what it’s construction say about the maker. I try to think about the process the maker went through to craft the blade, their choice of steel, how the knife likes to be sharpened, the grind, how it’s was polished and a myriad of other aspects that combine into the character of the knife. I think of the maker of the Dao Vau knives that I own and the YouTube video of the maker barefoot beside a charcoal fire. I think of the talent of the modern makers and the fact that for the most part they work for a very poor return for their talents. A lot of effort goes into making a hand crafted knife and the return compared to many professions is very poor.

I don’t spend much time admiring my automated production knives in the same way. I admire their utilitarian nature and low cost and their remarkable ability to absorb abuse. I admire my Myabi Black because it seems to be the “apex” of production knives. I don’t spend any time thinking about the machines that made them or, for that matter the committee of engineers that designed them and set up the production lines that made them. They’re not bad ... they’re just different. That’s just the way I see my knives.


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## Michi (Feb 2, 2020)

Benuser said:


> Not sure if mass production allows the best heat treatment.


Maybe not the "best", but almost certainly the most consistent. And, once someone figures out the "best", then it's just a matter of making a robot than can repeat that exactly and indefinitely, with far more precision than any human can ever dream of.

That's how robots work. It's why cars last twice as long today as they did forty or fifty years ago, and why they last all that time with a fraction of the number of defects. My Fiat 127 in 1978 had a lot more character than my Golf R32. So much so, that I had to fix the Fiat about once every two weeks.


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## RDalman (Feb 2, 2020)

Michi said:


> Maybe not the "best", but almost certainly the most consistent. And, once someone figures out the "best", then it's just a matter of making a robot than can repeat that exactly and indefinitely, with far more precision than any human can ever dream of.
> 
> That's how robots work. It's why cars last twice as long today as they did forty or fifty years ago, and why they last all that time with a fraction of the number of defects. My Fiat 127 in 1978 had a lot more character than my Golf R32. So much so, that I had to fix the Fiat about once every two weeks.



Ever seen a vacuum furnace typically used for commercial batch heat treatment? They sure do have some limitations I would say, and are often overpacked I guess. Compared to hands on with each blade- that allows alot more control of heating and coolingrates imo.


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## Michi (Feb 2, 2020)

Well, don't overpack the furnace then  That's like overloading a washing machine: it won't work as well if I ask it do something outside its design parameters.

Please, don't get me wrong here, Robin. Clearly, you have forgotten more about metallurgy and knives than I have ever learned, and I'm definitely not the expert here.

My point was that machines are incredibly good at doing the same thing over and over, with incredibly precision and accuracy, and machines don't ever get tired or distracted. Once a machine is dialled in, it can keep making a product to very exacting standards, and do so pretty much indefinitely. No human can do that.

And, as I said. When a machine makes them, all the knives come out the same. It's not possible to have the cake and eat it, too.


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## RDalman (Feb 2, 2020)

Michi said:


> Well, don't overpack the furnace then  That's like overloading a washing machine: it won't work as well if I ask it do something outside its design parameters.
> 
> Please, don't get me wrong here, Robin. Clearly, you have forgotten more about metallurgy and knives than I have ever learned, and I'm definitely not the expert here.
> 
> ...


No harm meant  I just kindof disagree with you. Sure I will agree with you that it's possible to setup machines to do as good as human, but I don't think that's the case in any current modern knife manufacture. I think you wouldnt see this surge in demand for nice thin handground very hard kitchen knives if so.

Like grinding robots/automated setups for example. They need much bigger "tolerances" in terms of grind precision than what you can have with a skilled human. It's imo a bit like playing a instrument.


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## Michi (Feb 2, 2020)

RDalman said:


> Like grinding robots/automated setups for example. They need much bigger "tolerances" in terms of grind precision than what you can have with a skilled human.



I think what you are saying is that, right now, a good grinder/sharpener will do a better job than a machine. I absolutely take your word for it if you say this is so.

Until a bunch of engineers put their mind to it and figure out a better machine. I'm afraid that this is technology in action. It destroys things as much as it creates things. Usually the things it creates are for the better: they work better, or are cheaper, or are both better and cheaper. (If that were not so, we wouldn't use the technology.)

And every time this happens, we lose something, too. There are almost no shoemakers left in this world. Or blacksmiths, or watchmakers, or weavers, or…


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## big D (Feb 2, 2020)

http://tochilka.tsprof.com/
Your set for a wide variety.


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## Jville (Feb 2, 2020)

bahamaroot said:


>





Michi said:


> There is a lot of dislike around for brands such as Miyabi and Shun. I agree that these knives don't have a "soul" the same way that a hand-crafted knife has. It's sort of like the difference between a Picasso painting and a print of a Picasso painting.
> 
> There is also a threatening aspect to this. A high-quality mass-produced knife has all the variables eliminated. With modern manufacturing techniques and extra-precise control, we can make things that are objectively better than any human can make them. Perfect hardening temperature, perfect tempering, perfect fit and finish, etc. And it's possible to bring the price down to a point that is impossible to reach with small-scale hand-crafting.
> 
> ...



Michi you got on your own personal soapbox and blamed others as being insecure about owning/purchasing handmade knives for their responses. They were actually quite patient with the op. Op was saying some ridiculous stuff that showed the op didn't know Jack about knives, except some internet reading. Things like "superior sharpness" and honing in on 9-12 degree bevels. We all know edge taking and holding ability has to do with the steel type and the heat treat, and I seriously doubt miyabis version is the cream of the crop, be all combo of sg2. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad version. I'm just saying op had them on a pedestal and then refused to hear that there are plenty of great knives much cheaper that can easily hold this "superior sharpness" he speaks of as if it's a legend. When the reality is most of us experience this on the majority if not all of our knives and it's basically common or much simpler than the op is making it out to be. And another part that is frustrating is it all seems pointless anyways, because no matter what he is determined to get zwilling pro. Why even waste people's time??


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## kayman67 (Feb 2, 2020)

RDalman said:


> No harm meant  I just kindof disagree with you. Sure I will agree with you that it's possible to setup machines to do as good as human, but I don't think that's the case in any current modern knife manufacture. I think you wouldnt see this surge in demand for nice thin handground very hard kitchen knives if so.
> 
> Like grinding robots/automated setups for example. They need much bigger "tolerances" in terms of grind precision than what you can have with a skilled human. It's imo a bit like playing a instrument.




That surge is non existent by comparison to the market itself. They make those knives very abuse resistant for a simple reason. 99% of the people using them, would destroy anything else within 10 minutes. And they do. Machines make those crazy thin razors and scalpels and a billion other things that have crazy low margins for tolerances. If you start to mass produce, well, for the masses, you need to make sure those masses can actually use the product.


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