# Cris Anderson 24 cm custom XH gyuto



## mark76

When I first got into Japanese kitchen knives, I was not only impressed by the hardness and the edge retention of their blades and the ease with which they could be sharpened, but also by their thinness. Only later I discovered thicker knives like the Masakage ones, a Terayasu Fujiwara and a Kochi. And when I discovered a Kato (Yoshiaka Fujiwara), I got a smile on my face.

Then Cris Anderson announced he was going to make a real workhorse knife in AEB-L. This is my favorite stainless steel, since it can take a wicked edge and sharpens up very easily. And I had heard many positive things about Cris knives before, so I did not know how quickly I should order one.


*Ordering*

Cris is a great guy to deal with. He kept me up to date with the progression he was making, continually asked me about my preferences, and we were even making jokes about the knife. In the end our conversation about the knife was 9 pages long and this included many photographs. And fortunately I could bypass Cris waiting queue (which is over a year long, I think), so just a few months later I had the knife in my house.








*Looks*

The knife looks gorgeous. It is very well finished with a faultless transition from the handle to the blade. It is needless to say that the spine and the handle are well rounded. The handle itself deserves special attention. It is Cris dual tapered handle made out of ironwood. Cris told me that he sometimes got questions from customers asking whether it isn't too short. This is probably based on a comparison with other wa handles, which are usually longer, but I can say I have never had a handle in my hand that felt more comfortable. The rounding of the choil towards the cutting edge also helps in this. And the handle is beautiful: it is made out of ironwood with a nice drawing and three brass spacers.







*Profile*

The profile of the knife is geared towards push cutting and slicing. The balance point of the knife is about two centimeters in front of the choil (so where the edge starts, not where the blade starts). So it is quite a bit blade heavy, but that is exactly what I wanted for a 24 cm workhorse knife. The blade is 510 mm high at the heel, which is in line with its 24 cm length.







*Grind*

The grinds on Cris knife are proprietary and he has asked me not to say too much about them. But his grinds bear some similarities to those of Kato knives (even though they are different). See [url="http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/25699-Kato-geometry]this discussion on Kitchen Knife Forums[/url] for more explanation. Pay particular attention to post #16 and the following discussion. A special feature of the grind is that it is not uniform along the length of the blade. This causes food not only to be pushed away to the sides but up and down as well.

This is one of the things that makes their cutting performance so great. The blade is also pretty thick near the handle (4.4 mm), but then has a gradual and wicked distal taper: at one centimeter before the tip the blade is only 0.8 mm thick, which makes it one of the thinnest tips on all of my knives. And the blade is very thin above the edge as well. At half a centimeter above the edge it measures just 0.5 mm, which again makes it one of the thinnest knives I know just above the edge.







*Cutting performance*

When the knife arrived it was very sharp, so there was no need to sharpen it first.

The cutting performance of this knife is absolutely phenomenal. In spite of its thickness at the spine, it cut through everything with ease. It also went through harder foods like carrots and white winter radish almost like butter and without any wedging. And its grind makes it have great food release, too. Even potato slices only occasionally remained stuck to the blade.







*WIP pictures*

Here are some pictures Cris made during the manufacturing of the knife.






















*And then... a new knife*

I told Chris I liked his knife very much and it worked great in almost every respect. The only thing I was not so happy about was its profile: it has a very straight cutting edge. And I do like to rock chop from time to time. Even without me asking, Chris offered to make me a new knife for free. He wants every customer of this knife to be happy about every aspect of his knife. It was a very generous offer and I hesitated whether I could accept it. But I did. And now, a few months later, I have a new knife. Here it is...






It is very similar to the other knife, only it has a different profile. As you can see the profile is more rounded with a bit more belly.


*Conclusion*

This is one of the best knives, if not the best knife, Ive ever used. It is a workhorse knife, but one with a great distal taper and very thin above the edge. And it has great food release. It is a great looker as well. In many ways it reminds me of a Kato knife, but where the Kato put a smile on my face, this knife put a big grin on my face. And if you also do rock chopping, the new profile is perfect. But to really everyone I can say: get this knife! You'll wonder how you could ever live without one.


*Factsheet*

Unlike my other factsheets this one does not give any details of the blade grind.


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## mark76

All comments welcome! I also posted this review on my blog, where you can read it a bit more nicely formatted, along quite a few other reviews.

And I just got a remark from Cris he hasn['t sold the original knife yet. It's got a more traditional Japanese profile, so should appeal to more people here. SO grab your chance... :biggrin:


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## AFKitchenknivesguy

As someone that spent 20 years in the Air Force, I really love his designs. Very aeronautical in design.


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## aboynamedsuita

Thanks Mark, I've heard nothing but good feedback on the performance of Cris' knives, and it's nice to have another source of confirmation.


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## daveb

Like the knife. Looking at the board feels like I've been drinkng.:cool2:


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## marc4pt0

Cris's attention to detail is off the charts. And his need to make his customers happy is unmatched by some. He goes above and beyond which just goes to show he stands behind his product. 
In the end you have an amazing knife and a new friend. What's not to like?


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## MontezumaBoy

marc4pt0 said:


> Cris's attention to detail is off the charts. And his need to make his customers happy is unmatched by some. He goes above and beyond which just goes to show he stands behind his product.
> In the end you have an amazing knife and a new friend. What's not to like?



You know I started chatting with Chris about getting a knife, for the most part, due to your 1st one Mark! I agree with you 100% that the guy is fantastic to work with and really wants the customer 100% happy / his desire for that is, as you say, off the charts.

FWIW I was able to chop up a few things with your knife (& several other Chris had about including my future one without the handle) a couple of weeks ago when I stopped in on him to check out the one he was fabricating for me (sorry for the crappy iphone pic). Very, very damned near just bought yours from him as the profile is fantastic IMO. Really talking about minor differences between the two profiles as you mentioned above ... still an amazing blade and gorgeous Ironwood! I just had to have my Honduran Rosewood Burl (block on the top) handle so Chris continued his work ... end result is sweet!





Will attempt to write up something similar (likely to fail miserably but ***) to what you have here since the guy is awesome to work with and his passion for his trade is quite amazing. That "little beastie" in the low middle kinda stole my heart as well but that is something for the not to distant future ...

TjA


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## XooMG

Glad you seem to have gotten a good knife.

I was able to, without trying particularly hard, find the performance limits of the knife I received from him. It may just be that I am very accustomed to personally tuned, optimized geometries that work better for the harder things I cut. I'd mentioned offhandedly in another thread that my thoughts on the knife were mixed, and there was some pressure to keep mum about it except in private. A handful of others with tempered feelings also shared with me (apparently I am a magnet for such things), but have not wanted to say anything publicly to avoid censure or awkward interactions with the maker. I think the "risk" is low and Cris will refund or rework a knife to the customers' satisfaction if possible; I know of one fellow who sent his knife back for a regrind, and Cris repeatedly (and proactively) offered to refund me (which I am reluctant to do, because I do not want to lose the decent knife I do have).

Mine seems a good knife with generally good heavyweight performance, but I hesitate to use so many superlatives. It does appear that my opinion is a minority one, however, and should not detract from others' happiness or interest in potential purchases.

Thanks for the review Mark.


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## daveb

Now thats a board I could skate all day on. BS or is Chris making those as well?

X, I think you found exactly the right chord. And not the first time.


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## Cheeks1989

marc4pt0 said:


> Cris's attention to detail is off the charts. And his need to make his customers happy is unmatched by some. He goes above and beyond which just goes to show he stands behind his product.
> In the end you have an amazing knife and a new friend. What's not to like?



Couldn't agree more marc4pt0 . Great review mark76 :doublethumbsup:


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## aboynamedsuita

MontezumaBoy said:


> I just had to have my Honduran Rosewood Burl



+1, HRB 4 lyfe!

Wait until you see some of the blocks I have with the heartwood/sapwood ends similar to the ironwood one Cris did last year (I think for Marc?). I think that will be a good fit for the hamon.


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## malexthekid

I love Cris's work and have my name on his list but had a couple of other customs come up which zapped my funds so I am still waiting to get one of his.


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## MontezumaBoy

XooMG said:


> I was able to, without trying particularly hard, find the performance limits of the knife I received from him. It may just be that I am very accustomed to personally tuned, optimized geometries that work better for the harder things I cut.



Hi XooMG - Just scratching the surface with this knife as I was on travel when I received it! My comments are primarily around the customer service side and that for generic veg the blade was very adept and felt well in the hand. Will have a lot more to play with now so will take my time to get to know it. 

Just curious what specific items you mean when referring to "harder things I cut"?

My $0.02 is that everyone has an opinion and as long as the criticism is constructive seems pretty silly to having to worry about being censured or having akward interactions with makers. Seems some healthy commentary goes along way but that never seems to be the case ... just look where I live to see that silliness abounds ... land of flakes and butterflies after all ... LOL

TjA


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## MontezumaBoy

TJ - Chris did show me a couple of his hamon babies ... very, very pretty and I think that those woods would be very pretty in deed!

TjA



tjangula said:


> +1, HRB 4 lyfe!
> 
> Wait until you see some of the blocks I have with the heartwood/sapwood ends similar to the ironwood one Cris did last year (I think for Marc?). I think that will be a good fit for the hamon.


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## alterwisser

MontezumaBoy said:


> My $0.02 is that everyone has an opinion and as long as the criticism is constructive seems pretty silly to having to worry about being censured or having akward interactions with makers. Seems some healthy commentary goes along way but that never seems to be the case ... just look where I live to see that silliness abounds ... land of flakes and butterflies after all ... LOL
> 
> TjA



Agree 100%.

Count me in the group that thinks we need to be a bit more open and willing to also discuss - in a fair and subjective way - experiences that don't fall in the "I LOVE THIS KNIFE" category. You almost never hear any kind of negative/constructive feedback. I know there are tons of reasons for that, and I'm guilty of it as well. I admit that!

If a knife is wedging in food it shouldn't be wedging in... we should say that. If F&F is not what can be expected from a knife costing $XXX, we should state.

Just my opinion.

Full disclosure: this is a general statement and does NOT refer to Cris Anderson knives. I don't own one, have never tried one and will most likely never buy one because the handle style doesn't appeal to me. But again: that's a personal taste!


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## Ruso

Cris sports a sizable tool....


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## jessf

That board is tripping balls


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## zetieum

alterwisser said:


> Agree 100%.
> 
> Count me in the group that thinks we need to be a bit more open and willing to also discuss - in a fair and subjective way - experiences that don't fall in the "I LOVE THIS KNIFE" category. You almost never hear any kind of negative/constructive feedback. I know there are tons of reasons for that, and I'm guilty of it as well. I admit that!
> 
> If a knife is wedging in food it shouldn't be wedging in... we should say that. If F&F is not what can be expected from a knife costing $XXX, we should state.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Full disclosure: this is a general statement and does NOT refer to Cris Anderson knives. I don't own one, have never tried one and will most likely never buy one because the handle style doesn't appeal to me. But again: that's a personal taste!



HUGE +1.


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## alterwisser

marc4pt0 said:


> This thread should get back to the heart of its intent- a 240mm by Cris Anderson (Edit) instead of where I tried to take it.



That's disturbing, Marc!

I always ...

Edit: NO.


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## labor of love

I'm kinda surprised to hear that knife is great for push cutting. Usually flatter profiled knives w really pointy tips feel better suited for pull cuts in my experience. Thanks for the review.


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## jaknil

mark76 said:


> All comments welcome! I also posted this review on my blog, where you can read it a bit more nicely formatted, along quite a few other reviews.
> 
> And I just got a remark from Cris he hasn['t sold the original knife yet. It's got a more traditional Japanese profile, so should appeal to more people here. SO grab your chance... :biggrin:



Maybe it has sold now. It is not on his store....
http://www.cjaedgedart.com/online-store
Looks great though.


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## MontezumaBoy

jaknil said:


> Maybe it has sold now. It is not on his store....
> http://www.cjaedgedart.com/online-store
> Looks great though.



Jaknil - you might want to PM him (CrisAnderson27) as I don't think his store is always 100% up to date with what he has available (especially something like this). My $0.02

TjA


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## XooMG

alterwisser said:


> Full disclosure: this is a general statement and does NOT refer to Cris Anderson knives. I don't own one, have never tried one and will most likely never buy one because the handle style doesn't appeal to me. But again: that's a personal taste!


Cris was upset that I posted that there was pressure for me to keep mum. It seems that he believes folks will misconstrue that as him exerting direct pressure on me. I do not personally share the concern, but is not unwise to clarify that the pressure I feel to keep mum about Cris's knife is the same pressure I feel regarding [publicly] discussing issues with pretty much any custom, whether it's my Maumasi, Tsourkan, Harner, Anderson, Dalman, or any other I cannot think of at the moment.


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## mark76

MontezumaBoy said:


> You know I started chatting with Chris about getting a knife, for the most part, due to your 1st one Mark! I agree with you 100% that the guy is fantastic to work with and really wants the customer 100% happy / his desire for that is, as you say, off the charts.
> 
> FWIW I was able to chop up a few things with your knife (& several other Chris had about including my future one without the handle) a couple of weeks ago when I stopped in on him to check out the one he was fabricating for me (sorry for the crappy iphone pic). Very, very damned near just bought yours from him as the profile is fantastic IMO. Really talking about minor differences between the two profiles as you mentioned above ... still an amazing blade and gorgeous Ironwood! I just had to have my Honduran Rosewood Burl (block on the top) handle so Chris continued his work ... end result is sweet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will attempt to write up something similar (likely to fail miserably but ***) to what you have here since the guy is awesome to work with and his passion for his trade is quite amazing. That "little beastie" in the low middle kinda stole my heart as well but that is something for the not to distant future ...
> 
> TjA



Those look great too!


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## mark76

labor of love said:


> I'm kinda surprised to hear that knife is great for push cutting. Usually flatter profiled knives w really pointy tips feel better suited for pull cuts in my experience. Thanks for the review.



What then do you use for push cutting? Hopefully not a very rounded blade? Or do we mean different things by push cutting or a flat profile?


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## fatboylim

Each to their own and glad for all the measured opinions here. 

I personally dislike rock chopping and find the original profile more ideal for me. Also, really liking the qwerky handle design if it is as comfortable as you say. I use a pointed index finger grip, so would that work with his handles?


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## labor of love

mark76 said:


> What then do you use for push cutting? Hopefully not a very rounded blade? Or do we mean different things by push cutting or a flat profile?



Well a flat profiled knife with a thicker stronger tip would feel more suitable for push cutting-the knife you reviewed has a thin delicate pointy tip(sujihiki looking). I would guess that it would excel at pull cuts. I'm sure it's just fine for push cuts to as long as your not cutting too close to the tip of the blade.
Ofcourse I've never used your custom so I don't have first hand experience, I could be very wrong.


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## MontezumaBoy

labor of love said:


> Well a flat profiled knife with a thicker stronger tip would feel more suitable for push cutting-the knife you reviewed has a thin delicate pointy tip(sujihiki looking). I would guess that it would excel at pull cuts. I'm sure it's just fine for push cuts to as long as your not cutting too close to the tip of the blade.
> Ofcourse I've never used your custom so I don't have first hand experience, I could be very wrong.



Labor - knife works great in pull cuts / as for push cutting Chris is profile is unique, as they all are I guess, in that the tip is quite thin but not "delicate" in any way ... will try to show when I write it up but did some pull cutting just now and it is, FWIW, excellent in that roll.



fatboylim said:


> Each to their own and glad for all the measured opinions here.
> 
> I personally dislike rock chopping and find the original profile more ideal for me. Also, really liking the qwerky handle design if it is as comfortable as you say. I use a pointed index finger grip, so would that work with his handles?[/QUOTE
> 
> Fatboylim (awesome handle BTW!) - will play around with that grip as I don't use it (I mean at all) so will compare the XH with some other standard WA handles and give my opinion. Do you hold the handle in a normal pintch (up close and personal or do you normally have the other fingers wrapped with the index forward at the heal? - as you can see I just don't use that grip so just let me know PM is fine).
> 
> Also agree with Mark4pt0 that I will be keeping any of my comments to the relevant review.
> 
> tja


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## mark76

fatboylim said:


> Each to their own and glad for all the measured opinions here.
> 
> I personally dislike rock chopping and find the original profile more ideal for me. Also, really liking the qwerky handle design if it is as comfortable as you say. I use a pointed index finger grip, so would that work with his handles?



I'usually don't rock chop either. But there are those things like herbs and I wanted this to be able to handle this, too. That said, you'll probably like Cris' original profile better.


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## fatboylim

Say Montezumaboy, thanks for checking out the handle for me. The grip is a standard pinch grip into the choil, but with the index finger following the spin. It does mean the grip is less aggressive when compared to the normal pinch grip. It also means rock chopping can be a little awkward.


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## toddnmd

fatboylim said:


> Each to their own and glad for all the measured opinions here.
> Also, really liking the qwerky handle design if it is as comfortable as you say.



I wouldn't use the term "qwerky" to describe his handle design at all--though it is unusual. Cris seems to have put quite a bit of time into both the design of the handle, and its execution. It's got some great angles that make it really comfortable. I'll also say that some questions I had (along with some others) led to Cris doing some videos to explain how his knives should be held. The biggest thing is that the knife is designed for the middle finger to wrap around the rounded and elongated neck and choil. After understanding that, I have so say that his knife is super comfortable for me. 

Cris' "How to Hold My Knives Videos:

Part 1: [video=youtube;jCrrq2H2X6Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCrrq2H2X6Q[/video]

Part 2: [video=youtube;qkVHffPvS8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkVHffPvS8M[/video]


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## fatboylim

Nice links and very good explanations. I use his pinch grip in video but with the index finger running along the spine. It is a classic Japanese grip, that is almost the same as the western pinch grip in video. I personally cringe when I see someone pinch gripping down the handle without embracing the choil... But each to their own.


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## fatboylim

https://youtu.be/V-xEYDT7PpI

This link shows a guy using the pinch grip with index finger on the spine, orthodox Japanese style


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## MontezumaBoy

Hi fatboylim - sent you a PM / let me know if you have any questions.

TjA



fatboylim said:


> https://youtu.be/V-xEYDT7PpI
> 
> This link shows a guy using the pinch grip with index finger on the spine, orthodox Japanese style


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## mark76

The handle is the best one I've ever worked with. I use a pinch grip (index finger not fully on spine), but it will also work fine if you keep index finger not fully on the spine.


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## WildBoar

MontezumaBoy said:


> Also agree with Mark4pt0 that I will be keeping any of my comments to the relevant review.


Who? <sigh> unfortunately I believe Marc was banned for life after being unhappy with his post(s?) getting edited by moderators. If anyone wants more info from him PM me and I can pass on his email address...


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## alterwisser

WildBoar said:


> Who? <sigh> unfortunately I believe Marc was banned for life after being unhappy with his post(s?) getting edited by moderators. If anyone wants more info from him PM me and I can pass on his email address...



Marc posted earlier in this thread, so I don't think he's been banned for life ... [emoji6]


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## labor of love

WildBoar said:


> Who? <sigh> unfortunately I believe Marc was banned for life after being unhappy with his post(s?) getting edited by moderators. If anyone wants more info from him PM me and I can pass on his email address...



what are you talking about?


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## WildBoar

alterwisser said:


> Marc posted earlier in this thread, so I don't think he's been banned for life ... [emoji6]


:biggrin: I got the info a few hours ago from a very reliable source who is eerily close to Marc. So close, in fact, that he shares his name, house, job, wife and kids :flush:


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## WildBoar

It's funny/ sad, but Marc got banned for writing he was told he would be banned if he ever mentioned one maker's name, whether it was to say something good or bad. There has been quite a bit of censorship going on in this thread. As a long-time member and supporter here -- as well as a supporter of many of the vendors -- I find it disturbing. My annual membership renewed last week; I hope it was not a waste of money. There are other places on the internet to discuss kitchen knives and makers, but I have considered this one my home ever since it was started. But frankly I have little tolerance for forums where moderators go in and edit the posts of others the way it has been done here. usually they at least have the courtesy to post something in the thread about what they did and why, rather then trying to do it behind the scene.


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## alterwisser

WildBoar said:


> But frankly I have little tolerance for forums where moderators go in and edit the posts of others the way it has been done here. usually they at least have the courtesy to post something in the thread about what they did and why, rather then trying to do it behind the scene.



+1


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## labor of love

WildBoar said:


> It's funny/ sad, but Marc got banned for writing he was told he would be banned if he ever mentioned one maker's name, whether it was to say something good or bad. There has been quite a bit of censorship going on in this thread. As a long-time member and supporter here -- as well as a supporter of many of the vendors -- I find it disturbing. My annual membership renewed last week; I hope it was not a waste of money. There are other places on the internet to discuss kitchen knives and makers, but I have considered this one my home ever since it was started. But frankly I have little tolerance for forums where moderators go in and edit the posts of others the way it has been done here. usually they at least have the courtesy to post something in the thread about what they did and why, rather then trying to do it behind the scene.



I really would like to hear an explanation from the mods.


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## alterwisser

labor of love said:


> I really would like to hear an explanation from the mods.



Good luck


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## jmgray

labor of love said:


> I really would like to hear an explanation from the mods.



I would also


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## WildBoar

my Inbox got full overnight, so I missed some PMs. I cleared some space this morning.


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## alterwisser

I would really like to see some kind of reaction from a moderator here ...

If Marc was banned for what he mentioned earlier in the thread, I think it would be good for the rest of us to get a confirmation on it. I - for once - did not realize that it's not allowed to mention makers (in a good or bad way) in the forum. I do realize that the website that shall not be named cannot ... well ... be named, but I wasn't familiar with a rule that doesn't allow other makers/brands to be mentioned.

I am guilty of doing just that (recently with my Xerxes Gyuto, for example). 

Maybe that isn't the reason Marc was banned, I don't know. But I think it would be great to have some transparency here, especially given the fact that Marc is (was) a long time member with an incredible collection of knives!

Thank you, appreciate it!


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## brainsausage

Any editing is poor form IMO. We're all adults here, and should have the ability to make informed decisions on our own. If a post is blatantly racist/misogynistic/attacking a specific member in an obviously offensive manner, than yes, I can see removing a post. In the past there has at the least been some pretense of explaining why posts were removed. It would seem that some of the politics in the moderator group have changed in that regard. This forum is public up and to the extent that the owners allow it to be, and therefore can implement wahatever policies they choose without consulting any of us. But I for one don't like the trend that is developing. I'm not sure I want to take part in a group that continues to operate in this manner though. I really enjoy this forum, and have for close to 5 years now. I've made some truly excellent, long lasting friendships due to being a member.


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## WildBoar

Josh, I am with you 100% on all points.


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## tkern

brainsausage said:


> Any editing is poor form IMO. We're all adults here, and should have the ability to make informed decisions on our own. If a post is blatantly racist/misogynistic/attacking a specific member in an obviously offensive manner, than yes, I can see removing a post. In the past there has at the least been some pretense of explaining why posts were removed. It would seem that some of the politics in the moderator group have changed in that regard. This forum is public up and to the extent that the owners allow it to be, and therefore can implement wahatever policies they choose without consulting any of us. But I for one don't like the trend that is developing. I'm not sure I want to take part in a group that continues to operate in this manner though. I really enjoy this forum, and have for close to 5 years now. I've made some truly excellent, long lasting friendships due to being a member.



Agreed.


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## Godslayer

brainsausage said:


> Any editing is poor form IMO. We're all adults here, and should have the ability to make informed decisions on our own. If a post is blatantly racist/misogynistic/attacking a specific member in an obviously offensive manner, than yes, I can see removing a post. In the past there has at the least been some pretense of explaining why posts were removed. It would seem that some of the politics in the moderator group have changed in that regard. This forum is public up and to the extent that the owners allow it to be, and therefore can implement wahatever policies they choose without consulting any of us. But I for one don't like the trend that is developing. I'm not sure I want to take part in a group that continues to operate in this manner though. I really enjoy this forum, and have for close to 5 years now. I've made some truly excellent, long lasting friendships due to being a member.



He's right you know. :knife: Realisitcally he should be un banned and an apology extended. Unless im missing something massive. Marc is a veteran member of this forum who brings as much or more(emphasis on the more) knowledge on kitchen knives and thé food industry than anyone one this forum including our mods. He was in my eyes a true leader on kkf, constantly challanging opinions and shining light on various topics. Plus he had that super sweet yu kurosaki with haburn handle.


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## malexthekid

brainsausage said:


> Any editing is poor form IMO. We're all adults here, and should have the ability to make informed decisions on our own. If a post is blatantly racist/misogynistic/attacking a specific member in an obviously offensive manner, than yes, I can see removing a post. In the past there has at the least been some pretense of explaining why posts were removed. It would seem that some of the politics in the moderator group have changed in that regard. This forum is public up and to the extent that the owners allow it to be, and therefore can implement wahatever policies they choose without consulting any of us. But I for one don't like the trend that is developing. I'm not sure I want to take part in a group that continues to operate in this manner though. I really enjoy this forum, and have for close to 5 years now. I've made some truly excellent, long lasting friendships due to being a member.



This, this and this!!!


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## Mucho Bocho

There has been a disturbance in the Force


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## Godslayer

Mucho Bocho said:


> There has been a disturbance in the Force



Anger.. fear.. agression the dark side are they
Once you start down the dark path,
Forever will it dominate your destiny


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## chinacats

dark star crashes...pouring it's light into ashes...reason tatters the forces tear loose from the axis...


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## labor of love

For what it's worth....we are all discussing it. And to my knowledge our posts aren't being edited. We atleast have that.


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## F-Flash

Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom! 
-William Wallace


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## daveb

I'll jump in and provide MY perspective on this brouhaha. I do this reluctantly as I expect to express things poorly, be misquoted, and be misunderstood. Probably intentionally in some cases. This is largely the explanation I gave Angie. And it is only that, I will explain my perspective. I will not discuss this further nor argue after the fact. I realize that Marc's perspective may be different.

A little background (as best I know it): Marc and Dave Martell got into a pissing contest a few years ago. I don't recall the details but neither were subtle, tactful or gracious. But even as Marc describes it he came out as well as he went in. He did not lose anything in the transaction - according to him. Some bad blood on both sides remained. And this happened while Dave was admin here.

Marc asserts that Dave screwed him.n
Marc asserts that the mod team "protects" Dave because of his former role here.

Like I said I don't recall the specifics of the original pissing contest and frankly don't give two phucks about it. The contention now is that Marc keeps bringing up this perceived wrong and can't seem to get over it. This has caused considerable strife in the past and the mod team has warned Marc repeatedly that this is not the venue for his continued airing of this "wrong". 

But periodically Marc brings it all up again. Always the same way, under the radar, as he tried to start it in this subject thread. Then Martell jumps in. And then it looks like two dogs seeing who can piss the highest up a tree. Turns into a clusterphuck for a couple days, warnings are given and then things settle down. This cycle has repeated itself several times over the last couple years, the only difference is that of late Dave does not engage.

The last couple of times this has come up there has been post editing, PMs exchanged and talk of banning. Marc's long time participation has been weighed heavily in the calculus and we've not done so.

In this instance he managed to bring this back up in a discussion of Chris's knives. (Remember when this was about Chris's knives?) The instigating part was edited out, and comments specific to Marc were added. To assert that Marc did not know exactly what he was doing in the post nor know exactly what the comments meant is to argue that he is a fool. And he's certainly not.

After this contentious post, PMs were again exchanged. It was again made clear that he should put this behind him and regardless the forum was not the venue for him to use to solicit sympathy. In the second PM he was given the unambiguous choice to leave it alone and participate as a well revered member or that we would have to part company. 

Unfortunately for all, he made the choice that led to banning.

I PMd him that his choice left us no choice. I also told him that if he could leave the pissing contest behind that I would argue for his re-instatement.

Banning is not something that happens lightly nor without thought or reason. And I don't recall anyone at anytime being given more opportunities to not be banned.

Again the above is MY explanation of these events. I will not argue them, I will not defend them, I will not discuss them further. And I am so not interested in anyone pasting rebuttal comments from Marc in this or any other thread.

Marc knows the way back in. It's still his choice.

Regards,

Dave

Whoops, I missed one. Neither Marc nor anyone else has ever been told (to the best of my knowledge) they cannot mention any maker by name. This assertion is preposterous and insulting.


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## fatboylim

Well this shows you how much effort goes on behind the scenes and how truly difficult it is to be a moderator here. 

Nothing worse than breaking up a fight between two people that you like and respect individually, whilst protecting the forum from the spill over of venom. 

Thanks daveb, that would have been difficult to write in a balanced and objective way.


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## toddnmd

Dave, thanks for the explanation. I'm sure there is more that could be said on various sides, but I don't see much good coming out of a more extended discussion. 

I'm sad the situation came to that, and I'll leave it at that.

Thanks to you and all the mods for keeping this place running smoothly most of the time.


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## WildBoar

I have seen the ban notice. It does not indicate there is a 'way back in'. It indicates the ban is forever, and that is it.

Also, there are many who carry who reference perceived wrongdoings long after the fact on KKF. A lot of it directs at ck2g, for instance, as well as some of that businesses's 'friends'. Yet no such bans occur based on those that I am aware of. DaveM is no longer the forum owner here, yet I think some actions are taken to protect him (protection not typically given others). This is not a knock on DaveM, and I did not take sides between the two during that dispute as I consider both of them friends.

Another thing missing from the 'explanation' above is the conflict between daveb and Cris Anderson. Not mentioning this is disingenuous in my opinion.


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## USC 2012

WildBoar said:


> there are many who carry who reference perceived wrongdoings long after the fact on KKF. A lot of it directs at ck2g, for instance, as well as some of that businesses's 'friends'. Yet no such bans occur based on those that I am aware of. DaveM is no longer the forum owner here, yet I think some actions are taken to protect him (protection not typically given others). This is not a knock on DaveM, and I did not take sides between the two during that dispute as I consider both of them friends.
> 
> Another thing missing from the 'explanation' above is the conflict between daveb and Cris Anderson. Not mentioning this is disingenuous in my opinion.



Well put!


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## AllanP

I knew this was gonna be about Marc and Dave again even though everything was edited out. 

The mods were right, I think Marc has expressed whatever he felt about Dave in the half dozen threads he brought it up in. There's no need to derail another one. This thread was about Cris' knives and should stay that way. I really don't want to see another passive aggressive pissing contest about something totally unrelated to the original topic.


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## daveb

WildBoar said:


> Another thing missing from the 'explanation' above is the conflict between daveb and Cris Anderson. Not mentioning this is disingenuous in my opinion.



Huh? That's coming from left field. There is no conflict between Cris and I. I think highly of his work and his participation here. I can be disingenuous with the best of them and have even been known to obfuscate a few things, but it's not happening here.




WildBoar said:


> I have seen the ban notice. It does not indicate there is a 'way back in'. It indicates the ban is forever, and that is it.



You've not seen the PM I sent to Marc prior to the banning. That would be the "Private" part. It does indeed offer a way back in. My email is in my profile should he wish to contact me or he can contact Angie through the Admin function.


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## WildBoar

Unfortunately Marc may not have seen the PM either. He does not get email notifications of PMs (that feature has net been working for him for quite sometime). And now that he is banned he obviously cannot access his PMs. If it is a PM he did not respond to, it is likely he did not know about it. I am happy to provide you with an email address for him if you want to send it to him that way. I do not see your email address on your profile info; I am happy to forward it to him.


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## milkbaby

"Can't we all just get along?" -Rodney King 

Let it be known that I'm accepting donations for the legal defense and acquisition of a Cris Anderson/Scorpion Forge gyuto fund. I'll need the legal defense when y'all find out that I used most of the money to buy a CJA/SF gyuto...


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## mark76

I am not a mod here and I exert no power over what ppl can write in this thread. Yet I would appreciate it, as t#he OP, if we could stay more on-topic. I think it is a pity that negative events from the past are brought up again, especially in places where they don't belong.

It would be great for the atmosphere on this site if these old feuds could be settled. If that is not possible, I think it would be good to discuss them elsewhere.


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## LucasFur

Mark, as far as you know how does the edge hold up compared to other blades? 
Aeb-L and W2 are not steels that tickle my fancy. 
And i get it the grind is unreal from Lazer to XH, but I'm curious about edge life compared to the masakages/ kato/ carter / teruyasu. 
thanks


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## kevpenbanc

mark76 said:


> I am not a mod here and I exert no power over what ppl can write in this thread. Yet I would appreciate it, as t#he OP, if we could stay more on-topic. I think it is a pity that negative events from the past are brought up again, especially in places where they don't belong.
> 
> It would be great for the atmosphere on this site if these old feuds could be settled. If that is not possible, I think it would be good to discuss them elsewhere.



I'm on Cris' list so appreciate the review.



LucasFur said:


> Mark, as far as you know how does the edge hold up compared to other blades?
> Aeb-L and W2 are not steels that tickle my fancy.
> And i get it the grind is unreal from Lazer to XH, but I'm curious about edge life compared to the masakages/ kato/ carter / teruyasu.
> thanks



Curious as to what steels do tickle you? 
I'm somewhat agnostic about steel nowadays, but I do get a bit warm and fuzy over R2, rather like SLD too.


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## V1P

LucasFur said:


> Mark, as far as you know how does the edge hold up compared to other blades?
> Aeb-L and W2 are not steels that tickle my fancy.
> And i get it the grind is unreal from Lazer to XH, but I'm curious about edge life compared to the masakages/ kato/ carter / teruyasu.
> thanks



I used one of Cris' in a pro kitchen for a full month, that was 5 days a week, 10-12 hrs a day, on poly boards. I sold the knife after that, to upgrade to a bigger one. I did not have to sharpen at all, only stropped on hard felt with 3 micron diamond spray daily. The edge just kept on coming back, even though not at OOTB sharpness after a month. His W2 is around 64-65hrc.

Out of all the brands you listed, I had only used a Carter White #2, it did not even compare, IMHO. The Carter would get very sharp but lost it very quickly.

I hope that helped. Same as Kev, I do not really care about steel types, they would all give you different experience, even of the same types. There have been many discussions on this, I would just leave it at that.


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## chinacats

V1P said:


> Out of all the brands you listed, I had only used a Carter White #2, it did not even compare, IMHO. The Carter would get very sharp but lost it very quickly.



FWIW, I believe the Carter you tried would've been white 1...I don't believe he's used white 2 in knives he's sold. It was blue super prior to that...imo the strength of Carter lies more in the grind than edge retention. That said, the blue super I owned in the past actually did have pretty decent edge retention.

Your description of the Carter does match the reputation of white steel--get very sharp and not last too long.


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## V1P

My bad, it has been a while, it was white #2.


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## mark76

LucasFur said:


> Mark, as far as you know how does the edge hold up compared to other blades?
> Aeb-L and W2 are not steels that tickle my fancy.
> And i get it the grind is unreal from Lazer to XH, but I'm curious about edge life compared to the masakages/ kato/ carter / teruyasu.
> thanks



It's true AEB-L doesn't have the best edge retention (but then we're comparing it to expensive PM steels). But it's stainless and very fine-grained, which is why I like it. And it's tough and has great edge stability. And sharpening is no punishment for me. It sharpens fine, by the way. Cris did his heat treatment well. I haven't used the knife long enough to form a definitive opinion, but the edge retention is at least on par and probably better than most other AEB-L's.


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## LucasFur

Sorry for all the questions, Im sure somebody else is thinking them as well. 
So from my understanding W2 is a super clean that is often used for drill bits
From what i have read there is a lot of variation in W2. Even on zknives the ranges for what is considered W2 is quite large. I guess that is why some makers say its amazing, and some say meh. But its difficult to read makers say it does not keep its edge as long as 52100 and not take that lightly. 
I have also read that W2 is a shallow(er) quenching steel, is that something to worry about when it comes to knives? 
I guess if chris hardens to 65+ then there is no worries, a easy to sharpen steel at high hardness is my preference atm. 
My carter, yea does not hold an edge very long admittedly, 62hrc? - so im guessing the scorpion forge is presumably its similar to my teruyasu white 1 hrc65ish. I am leaning more and more towards one ... hold on wallet for a wild ride.


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## rickbern

I read the forums a bit but don't post much. 

Read this thread this morning, saw this article a little later, thought it pertinent. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo.../508523/?utm_source=nl-atlantic-weekly-112416

I guess this makes a case for the mods to be more rather than less active. 

Rick


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## WildBoar

Sorry to piggyback onto this thread, but many posters own or have recently tried Cris's knives. I just looked through Cris's new newsletter and he has a handful of AEB-L XH gyutos for sale. Anyone who was at the 2016 ECG have a chance to use a newer one and make any comparisons? A 210 would be nice to have laying around for smaller tasks or for the wife's use. I think there was only one XH at the ECG, and I don't remember much in the way of specifics (he sent us 4 to play with; I believe 3 were 'normal' grinds and the XH was experimental/ still in development). Thanks,


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## daveb

Do you have a link for that newsletter?


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## WildBoar

daveb said:


> Do you have a link for that newsletter?


No, I received it via email. He has a sign-up on his web site, but it doesn't look like he has them archived on the site.

Looking back at my notes from the ECG, I think the XH knife was actually a petty and not a gyuto, which is probably why I could not remember much about the performance.

I was skeptical about 210s for a bit, but Butch's line knives made me rethink. And Del and one or two of the other makers did runs of similar styles. Having a 210 gyuto 'line knife' can be useful for our home use, as my wife telecommutes so she prepares lunch every day, and that usually requires some light cutting tasks and not the knid of prep that we normally pull our 225s or 240s for. A Cris version would have potential to be a go-to, although the XH is an unknown for me.


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## rami_m

daveb said:


> Do you have a link for that newsletter?



I got an email. I think you join on his website.


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## daveb

Little birdie just told me to join the mailing list on his website.

http://eepurl.com/bRlaaD

Re the line knives. I've had most of the local makers interpretations of the line knife. Liked all of them for different reasons, even wrote a review once. My quick and dirty, make a sandwich knife these days is a Haburn 180 petty that runs a little tall. Cris's XH in 210ish would likely do well in that role.


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## toddnmd

I have a Scorpion Forge XH 235ish in AEB-L. The tip is thin and "laser"-ish, while the back part of the knife is thicker. Not that it's thick, but it has some heft, and cuts well. I like being able to use different parts of the blade to suit the task at hand--feels like having more than one knife. Given the intended grip of his knives, I would say that the last half inch or so at the heel is not designed to be used as much for cutting.
I didn't really discuss the grind with Cris, just let him do his own thing. I'm very pleased with the results, and it's one of my favorite knives. I didn't make a special request on the profile, so it's pretty flat, with a long flat spot in the rear, and just some belly towards the tip. Heel height is ~52mm. It works really well for me.
The handle is very ergonomic, and quite beautiful. Main wood is Honduran Rosewood Burl, along with a sizable musk ox horn spacer, and some black and nickel spacers on either side.
I've been very pleased with the edge retention, and so far have only had to strop to maintain.


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