# Recommends for an unpricey basic 2 stone setup



## guyskr (Jul 29, 2016)

Hi everyone!
After about a year of using a king 1000/6000 combo we had to part ways, and now I'm looking for some new stones.
i didn't really liked the king combo, especially the 6000 stone, which just felt kind of glassy. I don't know if this makes any sense but it was my feeling. The 1000 was just mah
Those will come as a gift, and the max budget is about 100$, shipped to Israel, so ebay is preferred, but not a must if the shipping prices are reasonable.
My main knives are a ss heiji gyuto and an r2 damascus takamura santoku.

I don't really know a lot about stones and really need your help :O
*Here is a few options i saw: *
low-mid:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KING-Sharpe...145191?hash=item2edd96d4a7:g:kxQAAOSwstxU3es- - heard a lot of good things about this stone
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IMANISHI-Wh...648274?hash=item3ac1bf61d2:g:J3EAAOSwHnFV1xiY
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Na...hash=item3cd0c38a5d:m:m3fTgl1Kw_OzsMxdWyaevZg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shapton-cer...hash=item3a8c2754a9:m:mbURXLpQV7mgCAVZ-GCifrA
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IMANISHI-Wh...111790?hash=item3ac02a77ae:g:4N8AAOSwAKxWYZj7

high:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-fi...799717?hash=item3a871b0b65:g:CIsAAOSw7NNUIYEU
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-sh...hash=item3d0760a838:m:mlPocj8FaP23nTbeiXz5fsg - no splash


Thanks to all the guys in the awesome forum!


----------



## ThEoRy (Jul 29, 2016)

Bester 1200 and suehiro rika 5k.


----------



## Mute-on (Jul 30, 2016)

ThEoRy said:


> Bester 1200 and suehiro rika 5k.



+1,000,000,000


----------



## guyskr (Jul 30, 2016)

Sound good, and I can find them with shipment at 105$, which is not too bad 

Any other thoughts?


----------



## berko (Jul 30, 2016)

cerax 1000/rika 5000

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store...t_info&cPath=335_405_583_585&products_id=2055


----------



## guyskr (Jul 30, 2016)

Wow that looks like a really nice deal, but I haven't found too much info about the cerax 1000 in this forum. Do you have experience with it?

Also, how is the cerax 320? Can it be used ass a flatting stone?


----------



## chinacats (Jul 30, 2016)

I use the cerax 320, it is soft and dishes quickly...good for what it is but you won't want to use it to flatten anything...get a plate or sandpaper...


----------



## guyskr (Jul 30, 2016)

Thx for chiming in.
So would you say this stone is worth 34$? This is the price I'll pay for it with shipping


----------



## chinacats (Jul 30, 2016)

yes, it is worth the money as a low grit stone, but since it dishes rather quickly, you should get the one that is double thickness...I've looked on tfj website and don't see the double thickness currently, perhaps it would be worth your time to email Stuart and ask him about this...in my recollection, it was not much more expensive than the single thickness and definitely will give you much more life.


----------



## daveb (Jul 30, 2016)

Mute-on said:


> +1,000,000,000



Plus another. There are stones I prefer but can't think of better bang for buck.


----------



## foody518 (Jul 30, 2016)

I have the Cerax 1000. It comes I think a with a bit more thickness than the Bester 1200, does readily shed abrasive, feels fairly creamy.


----------



## berko (Jul 30, 2016)

[video=youtube;m3aR0JccKHQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3aR0JccKHQ[/video]


----------



## foody518 (Jul 30, 2016)

I wonder how long he soaked the Bester. IMO It wants for a lonnng soak to feel and work better, whereas the Cerax is okay with less. Looking at the extent of loading he got on it, I'm thinking at least part of that can be mitigated of making sure it is fully soaked, and is being used with plenty of water vs being allowed to dry a bit as you go. Mine is permasoaked and I used it on cheap western stainless yesterday without so much loading as that.


----------



## JBroida (Jul 30, 2016)

people talk a lot about long soaking, but for ceramic stones like the bester and cerax, it really doenst make a difference. Once the stone is fully saturated, it is soaked. The stone doesnt soften with extra soaking like resinoid based stones do. Usually, stones like this are fully soaked in 15 minutes or less (though some take a bit longer... maybe up to 30 minutes in some cases). It seems to me, the difference people are seeing is actually much more about the fact that these types of stones are harder on the outside and softer in the inside. As you work through the outer layer of the stone, it will start to cut faster, load less, and hold water better, but it has nothing to do with extra soaking.


----------



## foody518 (Jul 30, 2016)

Ohhhh, thanks so much for that information


----------



## guyskr (Jul 30, 2016)

foody - would you say you enjoy the stone? i really liked what i saw in the video...
Also, with the cerax it costs something like 30$ less, which is nice


----------



## foody518 (Jul 30, 2016)

I like it, though at this point my current go-to non splash&go medium stone is the Gesshin 2000. I think it's a good choice for the price, definitely worth consideration.


----------



## preizzo (Jul 30, 2016)

Naniwa super stone 1k 3k and a naniwa lobster 220.!!


----------



## psfred (Jul 31, 2016)

I find the Bester 1200 will load up if you let it run dry or use too much pressure -- once I figured that out, mine stays pretty clean. Also, some minor color on the stone does not affect the cutting action as far as I can tell.

The video did not address one issue, and that is wear rate. I bought my Bester for use with plane irons. Dishing is a big issue with planes and chisels, a convex edge can make them unusable. King stones made me crazy, even with a jig they go out of flat so fast it's impossible for me to get a clean edge and bevel. Less of an issue with knives, certainly, but still something to think about.

If the Cerax has to be flattened quite a bit more, the extra speed isn't worth much to me.

Peter


----------



## guyskr (Jul 31, 2016)

Does anyone have more in info about the cerax? I think I'll buy it later today, so any last help will be welcomed


----------



## berko (Jul 31, 2016)

i have one and like it pretty much. it dishes a little faster but is also very fast cutting with smooth feedback similar to a rika, quite muddy and doesnt load up.


----------



## guyskr (Jul 31, 2016)

Sounds good to me. I think I'll order today, but problay as a 2 diffrent stones as I like it better that way


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Aug 1, 2016)

I remember reading somewhere that the Bester had issues with ripping out carbides in "modern" stainless steels, can somebody put that in context (something to ignore, or something that has truth to it and should be considered)?


----------



## ThEoRy (Aug 1, 2016)

I sharpened r2 on it a thousand times with no problems.


----------



## daveb (Aug 1, 2016)

If "modern" includes Aebl, Ginsanko, SKD, SLD, and the German stuff, I think not.


----------



## James (Aug 1, 2016)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> I remember reading somewhere that the Bester had issues with ripping out carbides in "modern" stainless steels, can somebody put that in context (something to ignore, or something that has truth to it and should be considered)?



Use the bester on r2, zdp-189 and m390 without any problems


----------



## guyskr (Aug 1, 2016)

I went out and ordered the cerax 1000 and rika 5000 combo. Will update when it'll arrive.

Thanks to all you guys for your help!


----------

