# Nagura vs. DMT Mini Diamond Stones?



## SolidSnake03 (Jan 18, 2015)

Hey everyone!

I have been experimenting with this DMT Mini Diamond Stone plate set for a bit now
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004WFTD/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
and was wondering if there was any reason to bother using a nagura anymore on my stones? I have found that these little plates work super fast, don't stick to the stone and are super easy to clean/dry.

So, is there really a reason to use a nagura at this point? The highest I go with my knives is 5-6k by the way. The nagura just seems like a worse way of doing the same thing these plates are. Anyhow, I was wondering if there was anything about a nagura or it's use I'm either missing or just don't understand that might still make it useful? I have a synthetic nagura from Korin by the way
http://korin.com/Nagura?sc=27&category=280113

Thanks!


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## eto (Jan 18, 2015)

Don't think you need the Nagura. Especially on these type of diamond stones you are using. I use some diamond stones and I constantly flush the stone of the sharpened metal that comes off the blade during sharpening. A nagura would seem to just clog things up.
I don't use a nagura on any of my stones. Don't think there all that effective. Just my experience with them.

Jason


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## rick_english (Jan 18, 2015)

Agree. Naguras might be useful when honing straight razors, but I think they're over-rated even there.


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## chinacats (Jan 18, 2015)

rick_english said:


> Agree. Naguras might be useful when honing straight razors, but I think they're over-rated even there.



Over rated until you go to slide a razor across your face...those naguras are quite different than what the op purchased as well. For the stones being used (5-6k), one is not necessary and likely just plain waste of time.


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## malexthekid (Jan 18, 2015)

I use one of them for that exact reason. Great for cleaning up the surface of your stones, especially when they get clogged with sharpie. Got the idea from Jon at JKI and am every grateful to him for it.


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## Ruso (Jan 18, 2015)

Do you really need to create the "mud" on the synthetic stone, does it speed up the process?


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## SolidSnake03 (Jan 19, 2015)

It does seem to speed things up and change the cutting a bit at least in my small bit of testing. The Suehiro Rika mud seems to help the sharpening go a bit fast and smoother but I really don't have any way to quantify that in a solid way.

That said, good to hear some of the replies here, I sort of figured given the grits I was working with they *nagura* wouldn't be a huge benefit and that the DMT's would probably work fine/just as well if not better


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## TheDispossessed (Jan 19, 2015)

I would think it would be fine for synthetics, but i only use a nagura for my kitayama bc it came w it, the next highest stone i have is a gesshin 4k which never seemed to need it i guess


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## Zwiefel (Jan 19, 2015)

malexthekid said:


> I use one of them for that exact reason. Great for cleaning up the surface of your stones, especially when they get clogged with sharpie. Got the idea from Jon at JKI and am every grateful to him for it.



Sharpie? On your stones? I assume you are talking about flattening, in which case a pencil would seem a better choice given how porous these stones are.


Jon at JKI has mention several times that he's not a big fan of nagura for kitchen cutlery. Leaving the deeper grooves in from the diamond plate gives a little more bite when coming off the polishing stones.


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## TB_London (Jan 19, 2015)

Depends if you're using naturals or synthetics. For natural finishers it would seem counter productive, for synthetics I do it all the time to clean the surface


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## malexthekid (Jan 19, 2015)

Zwiefel said:


> Sharpie? On your stones? I assume you are talking about flattening, in which case a pencil would seem a better choice given how porous these stones are.
> 
> 
> Jon at JKI has mention several times that he's not a big fan of nagura for kitchen cutlery. Leaving the deeper grooves in from the diamond plate gives a little more bite when coming off the polishing stones.



No I am talking about sharpie coming off of the knife onto the stone.


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## Zwiefel (Jan 19, 2015)

malexthekid said:


> No I am talking about sharpie coming off of the knife onto the stone.



OK, that makes a lot more sense! Thanks.


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## JBroida (Jan 19, 2015)

yeah... i use a small dmt plate to clean up my stones from sharpie when necessary


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## Mr.Wizard (Jan 19, 2015)

Does the ink actually cause problems in use or is the cleaning merely cosmetic?


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## JBroida (Jan 19, 2015)

it feels a bit skiddish on the stone surface if it gets really clogged up... for me, this is only when i teach classes, but its enough to be annoying.


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## Jpox (Jan 20, 2015)

I bought a set of 4 very small ezeelap dm plates (2 x 3/4 inch) from German Dieter Schmidt. The finest being at 1200, it leaves a very smooth and silky surface on the finer stones (both synthetics and naturals). I really like using the finest dm for smoothing everything out from the bigger coarser dm's that can flatten and shape corners.
I just bought a chosera 600 and an artificial nagura that followed also speeds the very hard chosera up. If I use that nagura on something like a medium fine botan, I can actually feel the artificial nagura particles work until they are broken down.
On my coarser jnats (below 1k) I always start them with mud from a dm (coarse - fine) - it gives a nice smooth feeling and really gets the stone going.
So on very hard synthetics, for smoothing the surface and getting jnats to bite the (small) dm's are great (the finest being a joy to use).
That's my experience so far
Cheers


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## SolidSnake03 (Jan 20, 2015)

Thanks everyone! This has been quite helpful, i kinda figured that for my uses the dmt's were just fine  

I find them very easy to use and convienient overall.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 22, 2015)

JBroida said:


> it feels a bit skiddish on the stone surface if it gets really clogged up... for me, this is only when i teach classes, but its enough to be annoying.



Never used sharpie. At first my attitude was when I was taught no beginners tips picked it up right away, however had a background in sharpening already. Have found that teaching students one on one some need extra help. Had persons male and female create an even burr heel to tip on first pass when the spine is raised for final bevel. Teach them to take their time(speed will come later) and to listen as the final is being cut in. Then burr removal without rounding crisp edge.

My hand out sheet tells them how to get to your playlist. All these kids have computers. Couple have asked me about sharpie technique tell them to try it if they want.

We have a % of culinary students from Japan. Have found many have sharpening experience already. Some prefer a more single bevel approach on Gyuto's. I teach (learned on your site) to thin spine close to the stone on both sides, then higher bevel just on cutting side for those who prefer this type of edge. Sharpening just on one side I believe leads to fragile edges on Gyuto's.


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## JCHine (Jan 22, 2015)

Have a look at this woodworker that has been experimenting with diamond nagura's for synthetic stones. He found some sticktion issues so has started developing a stickless diamond nagura 

http://www.rpwoodwork.com/blog/2014/12/25/diamond-nagura-progress/


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