# Pulled pork help



## CutFingers (Apr 23, 2015)

I'm cooking them now...I currently have them in a disposable aluminum pan, they are on a rack...basically I've got two shoulders on one rack in the pan...Am I going to run into thermal mass problems. I also put beer on the bottom of the pan...it's probably going to dry up at some point. I'm cooking them at 225...should I just let them be and pull them apart later?

I was planning on eating it tomorrow. I'm thinking let them rest and pull them up...throw pan juices over then re-heat in a crock pot. I don't really make this kind of stuff. They are boneless pork shoulder one is a bit smaller than the other.


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## bob_loblaw (Apr 23, 2015)

It will just take longer to get to temp. Assuming both shoulders aren't massive and this a slow and low cook, the vicinity of the two pieces shouldn't cause concern.


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## cheflarge (Apr 23, 2015)

Assuming you used plenty of rub before you began cooking. Beer is good. Would not use a rack. I generally rub mine and let them marinate overnight. I generally use cola, rootbeer or Dr. Pepper (making bbq sauce from the drippings). Slow roast at 200 degrees for twelve to fourteen hours covered with aluminum foil. Let rest for approximately half hour and pull. :cool2:


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## brainsausage (Apr 23, 2015)

Pull em at 185 internal temp. Wrap in plastic and foil, and let em rest till they hit 150-160. Trust me, you'll be happy with the results.


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## panda (Apr 24, 2015)

No rack, flip half way through.


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## Chifunda (Apr 24, 2015)

I take my pork butts to 195* then FTC (foil, towel, cooler) for about an hour before shredding them. Makes them a bit more tender without being mushy but it's a matter of personal preference, really. Us old guys have to look after what's left of our teeth, you know. 

For the record, I use a Cookshack SM025 and generally smoke at 240* using a 50/50mix of apple and hickory. I'm a big fan of Chris Schlesinger's "All South Barbecue Rub".


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## Mucho Bocho (Apr 24, 2015)

Chifunda said:


> I take my pork butts to 195* then FTC (foil, towel, cooler) for about an hour before shredding them. Makes them a bit more tender without being mushy but it's a matter of personal preference, really. Us old guys have to look after what's left of our teeth, you know.
> 
> For the record, I use a Cookshack SM025 and generally smoke at 240* using a 50/50mix of apple and hickory. I'm a big fan of Chris Schlesinger's "All South Barbecue Rub".



Chifunda's method gets my endorsement too, except I cook at 225 and stop smoking after the internal temp reached 140.


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## larrybard (Apr 24, 2015)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Chifunda's method gets my endorsement too, except I cook at 225 and stop smoking after the internal temp reached 140.



Interesting. First time I recall reading anyone stopping at a temperature as low as 140.


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## cheflarge (Apr 24, 2015)

That is actually text book........ cook until internal of 140 degrees, should carry over to 160 degrees, which is well done. &#128526;


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## strumke (Apr 24, 2015)

cheflarge said:


> That is actually text book........ cook until internal of 140 degrees, should carry over to 160 degrees, which is well done. [emoji41]



Well done by definition, but there's more that needs to happen. The idea is to melt the collagen which starts at 170. The meat will be fully cooked at 160, but probably quite chewy.

Bringing it higher than 170 allows more connective tissue to melt (time and temp), but at the risk of losing moisture. There's a range of preferences between 190 and 205 or so, but anywhere in there will make it pull-able.

If you want to slice the butt instead of pulling, you can pull it at 180, which would melt some connective tissue but sill leave it slice-able.


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## larrybard (Apr 24, 2015)

strumke said:


> Well done by definition, but there's more that needs to happen. The idea is to melt the collagen which starts at 170. The meat will be fully cooked at 160, but probably quite chewy.
> 
> Bringing it higher than 170 allows more connective tissue to melt (time and temp), but at the risk of losing moisture. There's a range of preferences between 190 and 205 or so, but anywhere in there will make it pull-able.
> 
> If you want to slice the butt instead of pulling, you can pull it at 180, which would melt some connective tissue but sill leave it slice-able.



That's consistent with what I have generally read, e.g.:
"When it hits about 170°F, collagens, which are part the connective tissues, begin to melt and turn to gelatin. That's magic baby. The meat gets much more tender when this happens. And juicy." http://amazingribs.com/recipes/porknography/perfect_pulled_pork.html or http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/...-195-degree-internal-temp-starting-it-tonight


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## daveb (Apr 24, 2015)

Mucho said he stops " smoking" @ 140, not that he stops "cooking". I can't read his mind but there's a school of thought that says no more smoke flavor will be absorbed around 140 plus.

At about 170 the "plateau" will begin with no temp change for couple hours while collagen does it's thing. That couple hours will make a preacher take a drink.

After that it's a short rife to 190 plus and pull. I use a theropen as much to feel resistance as display temp. FTC as above, let it cool a little and shred.


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## brainsausage (Apr 24, 2015)

Above 190 and you're running a close race between juicy and dry/chalky texture. As stated above- I prefer to pull them in the low 180's and let the slow carryover cook finish the work. IMO temp has nothing to do with smoke adherence/flavor, but more time/surface preparation. Smoke flavor compounds can only penetrate so far into the surface of the protein. After that it's whatever juices that have picked up smoke molecules from the surface, and circulated throughout the meat (prior to any stall). The smoke ring is a myth. It's simply salt on the surface of the meat interacting with the hemoglobins.


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## CutFingers (Apr 24, 2015)

I followed your advice brainsausauge...pulled it out in the mid 180's...mainly because I didn't want to be up till 6am...I put parchment paper on the tops then wrapped the tray in foil, this rest increased the temp enough to break down more collagens. I didn't smoke them. I did not want to have to fiddle around with coals all day and night. Next time I do them I'll marinade them in sparkling apple cider, salt and brown sugar. Then dry rub.

Flavor was kind of bland despite using a ton or dry rub. The bark turned out great. In the crock with some sauce it will taste very good. Personally I'll slather it in cholula hot sauce. I didn't smoke these, I baked them. This stuff is for a party for mom and she is not a fan of smoke flavor.

I think for smoke flavor one could simply brine the pulled pork in smoked salt. I'm a big fan of the smoked alder salt from Savory spice company. I got a pound of it and it's lasted over a year and still tastes and smells smokey.


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## Mucho Bocho (Apr 24, 2015)

daveb said:


> Mucho said he stops " smoking" @ 140, not that he stops "cooking". I can't read his mind but there's a school of thought that says no more smoke flavor will be absorbed around 140 plus.
> 
> At about 170 the "plateau" will begin with no temp change for couple hours while collagen does it's thing. That couple hours will make a preacher take a drink.
> 
> After that it's a short rife to 190 plus and pull. I use a theropen as much to feel resistance as display temp. FTC as above, let it cool a little and shred.



Dave you have a way of taking the words out of my mouth. 

Indeed, at around 140 degrees protein (myosin) denatures, squeezing out myoglobin putting you into a pre stall. Why would you add a polar compound (smoke) to a non-polar surface (myoglobin)? That's why you formed a pellicle in the first place. 

Hear this: after rubbing, unless you're going to let the protein rest the appropriate amount of time, there is no logic in applying a traditional dry rub to pre smoked proteins. 

Pre smoking, all that is needed is heavy salt, sugar, pepper and some cure time. Ask yourself, after a 6 to 12 hour smoke, can you really tell the difference between your secret dry rub and Joe BBQ rub. 

Also, rubbing water soluble herbs/spices onto a non-water soluble surface (fat cap) just tells everyone you didn't pay attention in science class. I bet you can tell the difference between Pepsi an Coke right?

Save your secret rub for after you've pulled the warm pork. 

Did I mention I hate BBQ.


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## mhlee (Apr 27, 2015)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Dave you have a way of taking the words out of my mouth.
> 
> Indeed, at around 140 degrees protein (myosin) denatures, squeezing out myoglobin putting you into a pre stall. Why would you add a polar compound (smoke) to a non-polar surface (myoglobin)? That's why you formed a pellicle in the first place.
> 
> ...



To the OP -

Keep in kind that this is someone who, by his own admission, hates BBQ. 

I disagree with many of the things written here. And, yes, I love BBQ.


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## Mucho Bocho (Apr 27, 2015)

Hear this Mike Lee's is going to tell Meathead Goldwin how to BBQ. 

Hey Mike, open mouth, insert foot. LOL Something tell me I'm not to first person to suggest this to you.

http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_fat_caps.html


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## mhlee (Apr 28, 2015)

Mucho Bocho said:


> Hear this Mike Lee's is going to tell Meathead Goldwin how to BBQ.
> 
> Hey Mike, open mouth, insert foot. LOL Something tell me I'm not to first person to suggest this to you.
> 
> http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/mythbusting_fat_caps.html



Naturally, you cherry pick one thing. But, your reading comprehension, as usual, is lousy. I didn't write that I disagreed with everything you wrote - only many things. 

I agree that the fat cap doesn't allow for smoke penetration, rub penetration, etc. That I don't dispute. But, I didn't specifically write that I disagreed with that. I've also read most of Amazing Ribs' website, and am well aware of what's been written there and by Dr. Blonder. 

But the necessity of a pellicle for BBQ meats? I don't agree. You're cooking a number of hours over a mostly dry heat. You create a pellicle for fish so you have a hard exterior that allows for easy slicing or cutting. If that's the goal, that's unnecessary for meats that are cooked a long time at a higher temp than cold smoking in my experience. (I've tested this.) And why desiccate the exterior of the meat prior to cooking and risk the chance of having a dry, hard crust? Most people I know don't like BBQ with a super dry exterior. Do you? Do you create a pellicle for a Prime Rib?

Can't differentiate rubs after a certain number of hours cooked? I've conducted blind taste tests that prove otherwise on meats cooked over 8 hours. The differences may be subtle, but they are noticeable. Perhaps you can't; but, that doesn't mean what you wrote or experienced is an absolute fact. 

Also, many of the things you wrote are affected by the actual fire itself. A smoldering, strong, smoky fire, or a strong, hot fire affects the flavor of any rub. But, by controlling the fire, distance of the meat from the fire, or even choice of wood, you can preserve the flavor of the rub. 

Also, considering I cook BBQ, on average, more than once a week, and have for the past two years, I probably have more on hand experience in the past year alone, than you have in 5, maybe 10 years. I've probably read more about BBQ than you have as well. This has allowed me to test many of the myths, principles, etc. that have been written about BBQ. 

In addition, I've cooked BBQ manually (have never used a gas or electric powered cooker, or even a blower attachhment) for over ten years. I cook almost exclusively with wood now and only use charcoal to get my fire started, so I'm pretty experienced with cooking using a live fire. I'm also a lifetime KCBS member, a certified BBQ judge (been for over 10 years), and soon to be owner of a Jambo pit.

By the way, a number of KKF members follow what I do, have watched me cook, and have had my BBQ on multiple occasions.

P.S. - I can taste the difference between Coke and Pepsi, easily, and can differentiate them when tasting them blind.


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## brainsausage (Apr 28, 2015)

Save the pissing match for PM's you guys. Way to derail a thread...


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## Mrmnms (Apr 28, 2015)

I have no doubt that I would love what Mucho or Mhlee would cook. I hope to have the opportunity. Enough room for different tastes, including seasoning and final temps. We all agree on lots. Slowly get your pork shoulder up to a temp to break down collagen . I pulled my chickens and butts at 160-165, but we sliced our pork and brushed it with sauce before putting on the grill to caramelize in my place. Another 10 degrees or so higher and rested worked fine to get the temperature up enough to work for pulled pork. As far as rubs and sauces, or none, each to his own.


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