# Atoma Plate for Lapping, 140 or 400?



## Dave Kinogie

As of now I have a dished King combo stone, 1000/6000. 

Although I'd like to upgrade my stones in the near future, in the present I really need to finally bite the bullet and get a diamond plate to flatten this one back and to keep my better stones flat with regular maintenance once I finally get some.

So my only 2 questions are, do you recommend a 140, or a 400 and why?



Actually a 3rd question:

Even if the 140 is better for flattening stones, would the 400 be sufficient or a little better than that as an in general for flattening, but at the same time more versatile for a novice sharpener such as myself for actual knife sharpening, as in minor repairs, thinning and resetting bevels?

I.E., the 140 would be better strictly for flattening, but maybe too aggressive for anything else for someone with my solid, albeit limited skills?

From my gathering of info, the 140 is only for major repairs and for someone with a lot of confidence with such a low grit and diamond plate instead of water stone, where as I can actually get use out of a 400 Atoma other than flattening?


Thanks in advance.


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## PalmRoyale

I have an Atoma 600/1200 combo plate at work and I use the 600 side for setting bevel, small repairs and lapping stones. If the 600 can handle these tasks the 400 can handle them as well.


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## Matus

I would not use Atoma 400 for normal repairs (it would probably not last too long) - just get a 400 stone for that. And the Atoma 140 for flattening. Remember - the finer the Diamond plate, the faster it wears out. I have only used Atoma 140 on blades for major thinning or repair jobs. The keyword there is - not too much pressure.


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## Dave Kinogie

Matus said:


> I would not use Atoma 400 for normal repairs (it would probably not last too long) - just get a 400 stone for that. And the Atoma 140 for flattening. Remember - the finer the Diamond plate, the faster it wears out. I have only used Atoma 140 on blades for major thinning or repair jobs. The keyword there is - not too much pressure.



Alright, so let me dial it back a bit, because the more I read, the more YouTube videos I watch, I realize in the few years or so of amateur sharpening, how I little I know lol...

So basically I don't want to touch a knife with a diamond plate, even a 400, unless absolutely necessary and probably many, many hours of experience later, if at all?

So 140 is my best bet as an actual flattening/whetstone maintenance "stone"? The 400 will basically be slower cutting through the dish and wear out faster?
But if my conclusion from your posts is correct, would that mean even for flattening, my margin for error would actually be slimmer with a 140 over a 400?


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## Matus

I think it will take you forever to flatten a 1000 stone with a 400 diamond plate. Such a plate (or even 1200) may make sense if you want to quickly generate (on an otherwise flattened stone) mud on a finishing natural stone and do not want to produce too coarse particles in the mud (although I prefer to use a natrual stone nagura for that).

But I am also hitting the limits of my personal experience, so let's see what more experienced sharpeners have to say


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## PalmRoyale

Matus said:


> I would not use Atoma 400 for normal repairs (it would probably not last too long) - just get a 400 stone for that. And the Atoma 140 for flattening. Remember - the finer the Diamond plate, the faster it wears out. I have only used Atoma 140 on blades for major thinning or repair jobs. The keyword there is - not too much pressure.


Based on my experience with the 600 and 1200 the 400 will last you several years.



Matus said:


> I think it will take you forever to flatten a 1000 stone with a 400 diamond plate.


I flatten my King 1200 and Sigma 6000 with the 600 side and it doesn't take too long. The key is to keep it very wet to prevent a build up of mud on the plate.


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## RDalman

Also consider silicone carbide powder on something flat. Little messier, bit cheaper and faster. I use 60 and 320 on a granite slab.


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## Matus

When I talk about limited lifetime of diamond plates I meant it in connection when using them to work on knives. On stones they will probably last 'indefinitely'. I consider my Atome 140 close to its EOL after about 15 - 20 hours of heavy work (thinning, reprofiling, etc.)


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## PalmRoyale

Matus said:


> When I talk about limited lifetime of diamond plates I meant it in connection when using them to work on knives.


I use my double sided Atoma to sharpen my chisels and plane blades and my employees use it as well so it sees a lot of use, probably more than when you sharpen knives on it. I haven't noticed any significant degradation in speed after a couple of months. And to be clear, I have a double sided Atoma at home as well for my knives and that's my reference point because it isn't used a whole lot. The one I use at work is a tad bit slower but not much.


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## Dave Kinogie

PalmRoyale said:


> Based on my experience with the 600 and 1200 the 400 will last you several years.
> 
> 
> I flatten my King 1200 and Sigma 6000 with the 600 side and it doesn't take too long. The key is to keep it very wet to prevent a build up of mud on the plate.



Hmm... although this adds to my confusion lol, thanks for the reply.


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## K813zra

I prefer a 140 plate for flattening, particularly with anything under 2k. I do not like how a finer plate makes the surface feel. Smooth and slippery. I do like an atoma 400 for finer stones and naturals that should feel smooth to begin with.

If you are going to use it just for flattening there are plenty of budget plates out there that work fine. They will stick to the stone a bit but an extra $40 in your pocket might be appealing.


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## Dave Kinogie

K813zra said:


> I prefer a 140 plate for flattening, particularly with anything under 2k. I do not like how a finer plate makes the surface feel. Smooth and slippery. I do like an atoma 400 for finer stones and naturals that should feel smooth to begin with.
> 
> If you are going to use it just for flattening there are plenty of budget plates out there that work fine. They will stick to the stone a bit but an extra $40 in your pocket might be appealing.



Ok thank you. Although I definitely appreciate a lot of the other info so far, this is the meat and potatoes of what I'm asking in addition to my other questions and just general interest in diamond plate usage. 

As for the budget plates, though I'm certainly no wealthy man, something like this that will likely last many many years, I prefer to go with ease of use/user friendliness over something somewhat annoying, albeit just as functional and effective for an extra $30 to $40 bucks.


One question then though, is a 400 Atoma a solid flattener for most synthetic 4000 and 6000 stones?


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## PalmRoyale

It's a very good flattener for 4000 and 6000 stones.


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## K813zra

Dave Kinogie said:


> Ok thank you. Although I definitely appreciate a lot of the other info so far, this is the meat and potatoes of what I'm asking in addition to my other questions and just general interest in diamond plate usage.
> 
> As for the budget plates, though I'm certainly no wealthy man, something like this that will likely last many many years, I prefer to go with ease of use/user friendliness over something somewhat annoying, albeit just as functional and effective for an extra $30 to $40 bucks.
> 
> 
> One question then though, is a 400 Atoma a solid flattener for most synthetic 4000 and 6000 stones?



As already mentioned, it will work great for the stones you mentioned.

I totally get where you are coming from in terms of function over price. I however am very addicted to sharpening stones both using and buying them. I like to save $30 here and there where I can, it adds up to hundreds over the coarse of a year, easily! :biggrin:

That said, I have an atoma 140 that has been regulated to metal removal because I just can not be bothered to walk the extra three steps to pick it up.:rofl2: (Selectively lazy.)


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## Benuser

Please note there's no reason for not using the 140 on fine stones.


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## StonedEdge

Are Atoma 140s legit to use to flatten jnats?


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## HRC_64

Benuser said:


> Please note there's no reason for not using the 140 on fine stones.



No reason to believe any opinion vs another without some actual discussion on it.


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## LucasFur

Benuser said:


> Please note there's no reason for not using the 140 on fine stones.



Please note that i find fine stones perform differently when laped with DMT 140 as opposed to my atoma 1200. I think its because the 140 leaves deeper scratches, so you have less steel touching the stone surface. I find this is mitigated using a nagura a little to even out the surface. 

Also you wear out your stones faster using lower grits, not that people regularly go through stones in their lifetime, but its a point to make.


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## PalmRoyale

Wouldn't the Atoma 140 make the surface of a finishing stone too rough?


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## Boynutman

I had exactly the same dillema and ended up buying an atoma 400. The reason I bought this grit is because I figured I could use it both for flattening stones and for knife work, plus I was concerned the 140 would be too rough for finer stones. To flatten my stones (kai 1000, chosera 2000/5000) it works great, quick and effective. Haven't dared to use it on knives yet, partly out of fear of it being too aggresive and partly because I haven't had a need. I recently bought a jns300 for rougher work so i am not sure I will ever use the atoma on knives...
So the 400 certainly works as a flattener (haven't tried it on the jns300 yet). 
I am only a light user so I cannot tell you how it will hold in the long run.
Also I cannot tell you how the 140 would have done.


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## tripleq

Benuser said:


> Please note there's no reason for not using the 140 on fine stones.



100% correct and a long-established practice by many of the pro sharpeners on this forum. Like most I use a nagura on finer stones after flattening to smooth out the surface. I much prefer the design of the Atoma over something like a DMT as excess material gets cleared much faster so no sticking and much faster cutting.


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## tripleq

StonedEdge said:


> Are Atoma 140s legit to use to flatten jnats?



No issues if the surface left by the 140 works for you. On my JNat razor finishers I usually do my initial lapping with the 140 but subsequent sessions are with the 400 or the 1200. If you buy the 140 plate you can buy a replacement pad in any available grit and stick it to the back of the 140. Very convenient.


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## Boynutman

So... I should have listened and gotten the 140 instead [emoji6]
Would have helped saving some money for that jns300 I ended up buying anyway.


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## tripleq

Boynutman said:


> So... I should have listened and gotten the 140 instead [emoji6]
> Would have helped saving some money for that jns300 I ended up buying anyway.



You'll get to the same destination anyway so not such a big deal. One of the big advantages of the Atoma design vs something like a DMT is that it allows for faster clearing of debris so there is much less sticking which all results in very efficient cutting.


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## Benuser

HRC_64 said:


> No reason to believe any opinion vs another without some actual discussion on it.



Sorry for the way I formulated. I only wanted to recall that one coarse Atoma can do the job on all stones, with very little problems. No need to have a finer one for fine stones. As others were so kind to explain, if you're concerned by the finish 140 leaves on fine stones there are multidude of very simple options.


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## LucasFur

Personally Atoma > DMT for all cases except price. 
Better Diamond distribution, slightly lighter so its easier to pick up. replaceable diamond sheets. etc. 

PalmRoyale - no it does not leave it too rough, just not as effective for the first number of passes. I notice this especially for straights where my pressure is monitored 10x more then knives, and edge refinement is the name of the game. Knives, work it to 3-8K and your good to go, though im starting to really love the 1K edge feel.


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## LucasFur

Please don't anybody buy the Norton 220 Grit stone. Its just a mess. Water does not stay on the surface at all even after some soaking and just falls between the particles and drips away, capillary reaction doesn't even occur on the stone. 
It also dishes quick, and there is so much mud everywhere when i used it, its cheap, but not even worth it when i have a DMT 400, which actually removes steel faster or comparable rate.


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## niwaki-boy

PalmRoyale said:


> Wouldn't the Atoma 140 make the surface of a finishing stone too rough?



To me yes but for initial lapping then no. My set up is a 140 with a 400 replacement on the flip side. Also did the same with a 600/1200 earlier this year.


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## K813zra

PalmRoyale said:


> Wouldn't the Atoma 140 make the surface of a finishing stone too rough?



Rougher, sure. Too rough, matter of opinion. I like to rough up my 8k stones. Particularly the SG8k, for a couple of reasons. One, the stone seems more aggressive. Two, stone is a little light in the feedback department and roughing it up intensifies the feedback. If I want super uber fine I am not using a synthetic stone anyway.


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## niwaki-boy

StonedEdge said:


> Are Atoma 140s legit to use to flatten jnats?



I dont know why I quoted Palm Royale in my last comment ... doh. Originally intended for StonedEdge.. carry on :|


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## labor of love

For synthetic stones of higher grit I follow up atoma 140 grit flattening with mini dmt plates (the cheap 3 pack) or nagura to work up mud. Works just fine.


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## StonedEdge

niwaki-boy said:


> To me yes but for initial lapping then no. My set up is a 140 with a 400 replacement on the flip side. Also did the same with a 600/1200 earlier this year.


That's makes sense to me. 

Haven't attacked a jnat with an atoma yet so I was just wondering what other people are doing


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## Dave Kinogie

Thanks guys, good discussion in here. I went with a 140. They have them on Amazon right now for $71.50, no tax with the aluminum backing. Blade replacements are like $64 iirc.


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## HRC_64

Atoma published guidelines say to use 140 on 500grit and below, and to use 400 for 500 and above for flattening.
https://www.mtckitchen.com/product_images/uploaded_images/AtomaEnglish.pdf


> FAQ
> Q1. I ts hard to find a good sharpening stone fixer to flatten the surface of rough sharpening stones. A1. ATOMA #140 plates can be used for flattening stones with grit #160-500, and ATOMA #400 excels at flattening surfaces of finer grit stones #500 and higher.
> 
> Q2. Can I use ATOMA to flatten SHAPTON or CHOSERA ceramic sharpening stones? A2. Of course. Use ATOMA to flatten hard-surface ceramic sharpening stones like SHAPTON.
> 
> Q3. Surfaces of conventional sharpening stone fixers become concave after use. How about ATOMA? A3. The surface of ATOMA plates remain flat because the diamonds are dispersed on the flat aluminum plate using a special patented technique.
> 
> #90732 /140Grit
> #95732/400gGrit
> #95734/#140mini
> #95733/#400Mini



This doesn't mean that anyone needs to follow the published guidelines, 
but it does seem in practice that people who use 140 for stones above 500 grit
[often] take steps to recondition the stone surface.

Atoma stone flattener with handle @ #400 grit; 







The Shapton lapping plate also same grit micron as atoma #400


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## Nemo

I have the Atoma stone flattener (with handle) in both 140 grit and 400 grit. The handle certainly improves ergonomics while flattening- makes it very easy.


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## K813zra

HRC_64 said:


> Atoma published guidelines say to use 140 on 500grit and below, and to use 400 for 500 and above for flattening.
> https://www.mtckitchen.com/product_images/uploaded_images/AtomaEnglish.pdf
> 
> 
> This doesn't mean that anyone needs to follow the published guidelines,
> but it does seem in practice that people who use 140 for stones above 500 grit
> take steps to recondition the stone surface.
> 
> Atoma stone flattener with handle is #400 grit;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Shapton lapping plate also same grit micron as atoma #400



I do not condition the surface of synthetic stones and flatten up to my 16k shapton with an atoma 140. I am an odd duck, maybe. Naturals are a different story. 140-400-tomo.


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## HRC_64

I think its healthy to have different views out there.

Explain where advantage may accrue
to different techniques or situations, etc.

The 140 vs 400 seems like a legit debate,

IMHO, so no worries either way.


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## K813zra

HRC_64 said:


> I think its healthy to have different views out there.
> 
> Explain where advantage may accrue
> to different techniques or situations, etc.
> 
> The 140 vs 400 seems like a legit debate,
> 
> IMHO, so no worries either way.



I simply prefer the way a fine stone feels after being roughed up by a 140 grit plate.


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## Qualitycookie

I have both the 140 and 400 and also prefer the 140 finish. But I have to admit, that I use 400 W/D paper and find that to be the best "feel" when done. Call me weird.


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## woodworkcan

I have the Atoma 400. Considering getting the 140 sheet to stick it on the other side of my 400. If you only buy one for flattening, I would buy the 140.


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## Chicagohawkie

Get the CKTG diamond flattening plate for 30 bucks! Best deal out there on a 140 grit. Mines lasted 3-4 years!


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## woodworkcan

Chicagohawkie said:


> Get the CKTG diamond flattening plate for 30 bucks! Best deal out there on a 140 grit. Mines lasted 3-4 years!



If it weren't for the positive reviews, I would not consider this alternative. It seems to be not as flat as the DMT or Atoma. But for that price you cannot go wrong. Good hint.


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## K813zra

Chicagohawkie said:


> Get the CKTG diamond flattening plate for 30 bucks! Best deal out there on a 140 grit. Mines lasted 3-4 years!


I like mine as well.


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## Chicagohawkie

woodworkcan said:


> If it weren't for the positive reviews, I would not consider this alternative. It seems to be not as flat as the DMT or Atoma. But for that price you cannot go wrong. Good hint.



You could never tell the difference between the 3. Ill take the 70 dollar savings all day!


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## woodworkcan

Does it tend to stick with suction to the stone when lapping it? The Atoma does a good job for not doing that.


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## K813zra

woodworkcan said:


> Does it tend to stick with suction to the stone when lapping it? The Atoma does a good job for not doing that.



I've not really had an issue on 99% of my synthetic stones as long as I keep applying water as needed. With very muddy naturals everything sticks, even my atoma. Or that has been my experience.


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## woodworkcan

K813zra said:


> I've not really had an issue on 99% of my synthetic stones as long as I keep applying water as needed. With very muddy naturals everything sticks, even my atoma. Or that has been my experience.



I agree that even with the Atoma, the jnats stick more than the synthetics. At least with those I have. From what I've read, the people who have switched from DMT to Atoma have done so, mainly because DMT sticks more easily.


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## PalmRoyale

I find that lapping my suita with my Atoma 600 under a running tap helps a lot.


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## Chicagohawkie

woodworkcan said:


> Does it tend to stick with suction to the stone when lapping it? The Atoma does a good job for not doing that.



Yes, it gets sticky. My other plates do as well though.


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## StonedEdge

I guess that's why they started making the Atoma plate with a handle ?


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## Chicagohawkie

StonedEdge said:


> I guess that's why they started making the Atoma plate with a handle ?



Ya, Ive seen those. Did they replace the unhandled ones? For me it doesnt matter only takes a few minutes and is just not worth it to spend anymore money on trivial unnessary things.


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## Nemo

Chicagohawkie said:


> Ya, Ive seen those. Did they replace the unhandled ones? For me it doesnt matter only takes a few minutes and is just not worth it to spend anymore money on trivial unnessary things.


They are not much more expensive and they do make flattening a breeze.


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## HRC_64

Has anyone used adhesive foam (like 3m poster squares) 
to just stick a handle (or grip) on the back of an atoma?

Maybe industrial velcro (adhesive backed) would also work.
On both the plate back and the handle.


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## SKB182

woodworkcan said:


> Does it tend to stick with suction to the stone when lapping it? The Atoma does a good job for not doing that.



The suction is fairly strong with the CKTG 140. I bought one to replace an Atoma 140 and placed an order for another Atoma 140 once I had a chance to use the CKTG.


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## K813zra

SKB182 said:


> The suction is fairly strong with the CKTG 140. I bought one to replace an Atoma 140 and placed an order for another Atoma 140 once I had a chance to use the CKTG.



I didn't have the same experience but I am very particular about keeping my stones clean/watered while lapping. I find that if I don't then all plates can glue themselves to a stone. However, I use a lot of muddy naturals and everything gets stuck the them...


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