# How do you gauge store brand and retailer lines?



## josemartinlopez (Aug 4, 2020)

Many knife makers have well defined lines that are familiar on this forum. For example, if someone refers to Konosuke Fujiyamas, people know what that means. However, a number of stores and retailers have their own lines. Some are simple tweaks to a familiar line from the maker, such as replacing the cladding with stainless cladding, changing the steel to White #1 or Blue Super, or upgrading the handle. Some, however, are store brands or completely different lines. For example, Yoshikazu Tanaka is the smith for the Konosuke Fujiyamas, but Hitohira the retailer has several lines of Yoshikazu Tanaka forged blades sharpened by different sharpeners. Yoshikazu Tanaka is the smith for other stores' house brands (even Razorsharp in Singapore has a few Yoshikazu Tanaka knives they had made) and can be paired with an unfamiliar (at least to us, outside Japan) or unnamed sharpener. You cannot expect one of these knives to be similar to a Konosuke Fujiyama or another Yoshikazu Tanaka knife simply because the blacksmith is the same. I appreciated comments by @osakajoe in old threads saying that the blacksmith is only one factor in the final product and you have to understand the roles of various people in making a knife in Japan.

Is there any way to navigate these store or retailer brands, especially if you have less experience gauging how a knife will perform? Take Yoshikazu Tanaka as an example, how would you gauge a knife if the retailer says he is the blacksmith but the other information is less familiar. Take Hitohira as a further example, how would you compare the different knives by Hitohira where Yoshikazu Tanaka is the blacksmith? I couldn't quite find old threads discussing this.


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## BillHanna (Aug 4, 2020)




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## zizirex (Aug 4, 2020)

@daveb this the 1st one... 2 more.


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 4, 2020)




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## zizirex (Aug 4, 2020)

to answer your question, Yoshikazu Tanaka is just the blacksmith.

To start, the Sakai maker is a whole different industry than other regions. Sakai knife industries have Blacksmith and Sharpener, where Sanjo, Takefu and Kanto area are usually do the sharpener/grinding in-house (either by the blacksmith or in-house sharpener).

Sakai Wholesaler also has its own politics where each Wholesaler only works with Certain Blacksmith, and then, Certain Blacksmith only works with certain Sharpener. IE, Kaneshige/Konosuke works with Shiraki and Tanaka. Aoki Hamono (Sakai Takayuki) works with Togashi, Doi and Yamatsuka. Kawamura Hamono (Sakai Kikumori) works with Shiraki and Tanaka. etc..

if your buying with a certain blacksmith, you will get their famous HT, edge retention and ease of sharpening. How it will perform, it depends on who is the sharpener, Wide bevel knife is not the same performance as the Convex hamaguri knife, so who sharpen them matters as well.

So What matters the *MOST IS WHEN YOU GO TO RAZORSHARP DONT FORGET TO ASK WHO IS THE SHARPENER SO WHEN YOU BUY IT, YOU CAN SHARE IT ON NEW KNIFE THREAD*. *IF YOU'RE LAZY, RAZORSHARP HAVE $9 SHIPPING FEE SO THERE IS NO EXCUSE.*


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## jacko9 (Aug 4, 2020)




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## josemartinlopez (Aug 4, 2020)

Thanks, but if and when they tell me who the sharpener is, any further advice beyond looking at the knife and seeing how it feels in hand?


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## parbaked (Aug 4, 2020)

BYOC...bring your own carrot.


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## juice (Aug 4, 2020)

What do we win?


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## M1k3 (Aug 4, 2020)

By buying them? By holding them? By using them?


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## juice (Aug 4, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> By buying them? By holding them? By using them?


This assumes that possessing a knife, any knife, is actually the end goal.


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## M1k3 (Aug 4, 2020)

juice said:


> This assumes that possessing a knife, any knife, is actually the end goal.


You got me! Forgot the Catch-22.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Many knife makers have well defined lines that are familiar on this forum. For example, if someone refers to Konosuke Fujiyamas, people know what that means. However, a number of stores and retailers have their own lines. Some are simple tweaks to a familiar line from the maker, such as replacing the cladding with stainless cladding, changing the steel to White #1 or Blue Super, or upgrading the handle. Some, however, are store brands or completely different lines. For example, Yoshikazu Tanaka is the smith for the Konosuke Fujiyamas, but Hitohira the retailer has several lines of Yoshikazu Tanaka forged blades sharpened by different sharpeners. Yoshikazu Tanaka is the smith for other stores' house brands (even Razorsharp in Singapore has a few Yoshikazu Tanaka knives they had made) and can be paired with an unfamiliar (at least to us, outside Japan) or unnamed sharpener. You cannot expect one of these knives to be similar to a Konosuke Fujiyama or another Yoshikazu Tanaka knife simply because the blacksmith is the same. I appreciated comments by @osakajoe in old threads saying that the blacksmith is only one factor in the final product and you have to understand the roles of various people in making a knife in Japan.
> 
> Is there any way to navigate these store or retailer brands, especially if you have less experience gauging how a knife will perform? Take Yoshikazu Tanaka as an example, how would you gauge a knife if the retailer says he is the blacksmith but the other information is less familiar. Take Hitohira as a further example, how would you compare the different knives by Hitohira where Yoshikazu Tanaka is the blacksmith? I couldn't quite find old threads discussing this.



I understand your question.

I'm interested in what your conclusions are. How do you personally "navigate these store or retailer brands"?

Which brands and retailers do you like, and why?


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## Barmoley (Aug 4, 2020)

@josemartinlopez What are the knives you like so far?

Which knife length works best for you?

Do you like flat or more curved profile?


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## TSF415 (Aug 4, 2020)

The wheels on the bus go round and round. round and round. round and round.


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## labor of love (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Is there any way to navigate these store or retailer brands, especially if you have less experience gauging how a knife will perform? Take Yoshikazu Tanaka as an example, how would you gauge a knife if the retailer says he is the blacksmith but the other information is less familiar. Take Hitohira as a further example, how would you compare the different knives by Hitohira where Yoshikazu Tanaka is the blacksmith? I couldn't quite find old threads discussing this.


There are certain shops throughout Japan where teleportation is now possible in which you can travel to the store from any destination on Earth in a matter of seconds using state of the art devices and ask the retailer hundreds of questions in person without actually buying anything.
Hope this helps.


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## inferno (Aug 4, 2020)

am i missing something here? why is everyone so hostile towards the OP?


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## simar (Aug 4, 2020)

inferno said:


> am i missing something here? why is everyone so hostile towards the OP?


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## daveb (Aug 4, 2020)

Not hostile towards the OP. The quantity and quality of the questions are wearing some a bit thin. That and his being steady on the transmit button leaves no time for receive.


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## Barmoley (Aug 4, 2020)

inferno said:


> am i missing something here? why is everyone so hostile towards the OP?


Bless your heart.


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## labor of love (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Is there any way to navigate these store or retailer brands, especially if you have less experience gauging how a knife will perform? Take Yoshikazu Tanaka as an example, how would you gauge a knife if the retailer says he is the blacksmith but the other information is less familiar. Take Hitohira as a further example, how would you compare the different knives by Hitohira where Yoshikazu Tanaka is the blacksmith? I couldn't quite find old threads discussing this.


These aren’t even answerable questions. I’ll take the OP seriously when he decides to take the forum seriously.
Until then, Nightcrawler styled transportation is the best solution.


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## tchan001 (Aug 4, 2020)

Most people here do their gauging by buying knives which they find interesting, trying them out, keeping the ones that work well for them and selling the ones they don't like as much on BST. They also post their experience on their trials on threads about the knives they own or have owned. This is how most people contribute to KKF and make it a wonderful collection of knowledge.


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## jacko9 (Aug 4, 2020)




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## esoo (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Is there any way to navigate these store or retailer brands, especially if you have less experience gauging how a knife will perform? Take Yoshikazu Tanaka as an example, how would you gauge a knife if the retailer says he is the blacksmith but the other information is less familiar. Take Hitohira as a further example, how would you compare the different knives by Hitohira where Yoshikazu Tanaka is the blacksmith? I couldn't quite find old threads discussing this.



It's quite simple
- buy a knife (doesn't matter which one)
- use the knife
- buy another knife (doesn't matter which one)
- use second knife
- compare first and second knife.
- read review of third knife, see how it compares to first or second knife. (optional)
- buy third knife
- use third knife
- see if the comparison was accurate for you (optional)
- post comparison, see feedback.
- sell least liked of three knives to fund fourth knife.
- keep going with above steps.

You will never know if a knife is right for you until you try it. I've tried an 8", thought it was good until I tried the 10" from the same line and discovered it was so much better, and the reverse where I thought I'd like a 240 based on the 210, and sold the 240 after 2 cuts.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 4, 2020)

esoo said:


> It's quite simple
> - buy a knife (doesn't matter which one)
> - use the knife
> - buy another knife (doesn't matter which one)
> ...



Agree. Experiencing different knives and retailers part of the journey towards defining one's taste and preferences. However, KKF was a bit of a shortcut for me, reading about other's experiences here helped me skip over a bunch of knives in the process. There're pretty much only 3–5 retailers I like buying from and trust, and built a rapport with.

20+ gyutos later, I think I know what works for me.


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## lemeneid (Aug 4, 2020)

OP, just get any 210 or 240 and try. If you don’t like it, just put it up on BST and recover some of your money.

Or make a YouTube video and rage over how it’s sh1t it was and how you were coerced by KKF into buying a knife you didn’t like.


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 4, 2020)

Plus taste and preference change over time as you become more experienced. I was originally into lightweight 210's with easy to maintain SS cladding and now I prefer mid-weight iron clad 220-230's and Honyaki. What you may like today may not be a good fit tomorrow. Buy a few different knives, use them on different produce, sell the ones that fail to excite and repeat. Oh and learn how to sharpen.....


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## esoo (Aug 4, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Agree. Experiencing different knives and retailers part of the journey towards defining one's taste and preferences. However, KKF was a bit of a shortcut for me, reading about other's experiences here helped me skip over a bunch of knives in the process. There're pretty much only 3–5 retailers I like buying from and trust, and built a rapport with.
> 
> 20+ gyutos later, I think I know what works for me.



I concur - good reviews make good shortcuts, but you need to have some background to understand the the reviews. And you only get the background by actually committing at some point to a knife.


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## lemeneid (Aug 4, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Plus taste and preference change over time as you become more experienced. I was originally into lightweight 210's with easy to maintain SS cladding and now I prefer mid-weight iron clad 220-230's and Honyaki. What you may like today may not be a good fit tomorrow. Buy a few different knives, use them on different produce, sell the ones that fail to excite and repeat. Oh and learn how to sharpen.....


Yes, TF is sh1t, Toyanabe is sh1t, Kato is sh1t now.
I only use Shuns and crowdfunded knives now, they’re awesome


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## daveb (Aug 4, 2020)

CM, CM, CM, CM, CM


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 4, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Yes, TF is sh1t, Toyanabe is sh1t, Kato is sh1t now.
> I only use Shuns and crowdfunded knives now, they’re awesome


Hows that Chelsea Miller working out for you?


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## JayS20 (Aug 4, 2020)

It's entertaing and tiring with OP at the same time. Each new thread leads to another question and thread . In his first 30 days he opened up like 30 threads. It's good to ask question, being enthusiastic and willing to learn.
Problem with OP is being trapped in a kind of a circle. Also he only asks questions but never answers them. 
I didn't really bother with opening threads but looked at different forums and informed myself while OP wants you to chew everything up for him. I didn't even join with forum and only read on this and other ones for like 8 months, trying to inform myself. Also read kinda scientifically reports about steels, properties, everything I could find and found interesting.
If OP keeps this up he will never learn what he actually likes and take the dive. Everyone has some misses and hits, you need to make your own experiences, people can only lead you a certain way.
Please don't be afraid OP and you might get more than positiviely surprised.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 4, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Plus taste and preference change over time as you become more experienced. I was originally into lightweight 210's with easy to maintain SS cladding and now I prefer mid-weight iron clad 220-230's and Honyaki. What you may like today may not be a good fit tomorrow. Buy a few different knives, use them on different produce, sell the ones that fail to excite and repeat. Oh and learn how to sharpen.....



Yup. Think my first J-knife was either 240 Misono UX10 or 240 Masamoto HC, thought they were the coolest, greatest knives—they were for me back then. Moved on now to others that fit my wheelhouse more, though still dig the UX10 and HC for getting me started.


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## daveb (Aug 4, 2020)

I hope Jose can take the ribbing in the same spirit it's being given. Im looking forward to a decision and purchase like everyone else. 

But. I'm also nervous.

Then there are cutting boards to consider: End grain, edge grain, hard woods, rubber, poly, glass, virgin forest, slutty orchards. feet, no feet, grooves, handles, sanitation, oiling, cleaning, storage, et al.

And then the damn thing will need to be sharpened. I'm going on holiday that month.

I don't want to present any ideas but I need two more threads before the weekend is over to win the pool.

Finally Jose, let me leave you with this. Have you ever considered the different requiements / expectations that pro's would have for a useful knife than civilians? And how that might impact your decision?

Two more. All I ask.


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## juice (Aug 4, 2020)

JayS20 said:


> Everyone has some misses and hits, you need to make your own experiences, people can only lead you a certain way.


A few months ago, I bought a Tojiro DP3 Series (3 Layers) Boning Knife 15cm online that I liked the look of, and I wanted a smaller knife than my Shun 200 Guyto. 

This was a stellar learning experience, and I discovered that it's a single-bevel which TRULY sucks for me as a lefty, I hate the western-style handle, and I like the blade length. 

So now I know I need to try a 150mm-ish double-bevel Petty with a wa handle. Or maybe a Bunka.

Awesome. 

It wasn't a fail, it was a data point, a learning experience.

Unrelated - anyone in Oz want to buy a very slightly used but really awesome Tojiro DP3 Series (3 Layers) Boning Knife 15cm? I know where you can get a cheap one...


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## tchan001 (Aug 4, 2020)

An armchair knife expert who just sits around drinking beer while reading up on knife gospel is NOT going to get respect. You need to buy and handle knives to really experience what makes certain knives great. It takes time, money, and effort to find the right answers if your goal is to ultimately find or build your own unicorn. Look at the ma_sha1 thread on his shig. It went from condemnation to respect through the efforts and trials he encountered.


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## Qapla' (Aug 4, 2020)

daveb said:


> Have you ever considered the different requiements / expectations that pro's would have for a useful knife than civilians? And how that might impact your decision?


Professional users vis-a-vis _civilians_? I don't think they drafted every last one of their culinary professionals...yet...?


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## BillHanna (Aug 4, 2020)

Take the plunge, Jose. I bought.... Dao Vua and lived to see another day. I chipped a knife today, then unevenly removed the chip. Check on me in 8 hours.


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## esoo (Aug 4, 2020)

BillHanna said:


> Take the plunge, Jose. I bought.... Dao Vua and lived to see another day. I chipped a knife today, then unevenly removed the chip. Check on me in 8 hours.



I watched my fiancee take a brand new Miyabi Birchwood and spatchcock a chicken with it. That's SG2 at 63HRC. 

The knife handled it intact. I managed to handle it intact but there may have been some drink afterwards


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 4, 2020)

daveb said:


> I hope Jose can take the ribbing in the same spirit it's being given. Im looking forward to a decision and purchase like everyone else.
> 
> But. I'm also nervous.
> 
> ...


Oh my god you’re right! I never thought of these. You saved my life.

Bur going back to the hypothetical example of trying a Razorsharp Yoshikazu Tanaka. Obviously you need to buy and try a knife to figure out what you want, but how would you consider whether to buy the one in Razorsharp over say one from Hirohira or another store brand that is also a Tanaka? I think the ones in Razorsharp are nice but are on the heavier side. (One person here posted he bought one from Razorsharp on vacation back when prices were lower and still considers it one of his best knives.)


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## Carlo (Aug 4, 2020)

esoo said:


> I watched my fiancee take a brand new Miyabi Birchwood and spatchcock a chicken with it. That's SG2 at 63HRC.
> 
> The knife handled it intact. I managed to handle it intact but there may have been some drink afterwards



It sounds as though you managed to keep your mouth shut and just watch it happen? 

Respect.


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## Qapla' (Aug 4, 2020)

esoo said:


> I watched my fiancee take a brand new Miyabi Birchwood and spatchcock a chicken with it. That's SG2 at 63HRC.
> 
> The knife handled it intact. I managed to handle it intact but there may have been some drink afterwards


No micro-chipping at all? That's a good thing then. People often forget that a chef's knife is intended to be a do-all knife in a western kitchen, and not a specialized soft-products slicer meant for use only with Japanese techniques on a Japanized selection of foodstuffs. Maybe I'll check out some SG2 knives in the future.


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## soigne_west (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Oh my god you’re right! I never thought of these. You saved my life.
> 
> Bur going back to the hypothetical example of trying a Razorsharp Yoshikazu Tanaka. Obviously you need to buy and try a knife to figure out what you want, but how would you consider whether to buy the one in Razorsharp over say one from Hirohira or another store brand that is also a Tanaka? I think the ones in Razorsharp are nice but are on the heavier side. (One person here posted he bought one from Razorsharp on vacation back when prices were lower and still considers it one of his best knives.)



Flip a coin or buy the cheaper one. Specs on sites are never gonna be exact.


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## tchan001 (Aug 4, 2020)

I do recall he made a purchase already but it probably hasn't arrived yet.





__





SOLD - Tanaka r2 gyuto ironwood western 240mm


For sale, little used tanaka r2 240 western ironwood gyuto. Only selling because need money elsewhere, Corona situtiation and being layd off from work. Sharpened 1 or 2 times. Comes with wooden kiri box. 223g 51mm @ heel 234mm from heel to tip 800€ including EMS shipping in EU. Other...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





Hope you enjoy the knife and give us a great review when you get a chance.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 4, 2020)

EMS from the seller's country shut down, but the seller has been graciously sending me some tips and shortlists on the side. Awesome guy, incredibly trustworthy and friendly.


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## esoo (Aug 4, 2020)

Qapla' said:


> No micro-chipping at all? That's a good thing then. People often forget that a chef's knife is intended to be a do-all knife in a western kitchen, and not a specialized soft-products slicer meant for use only with Japanese techniques on a Japanized selection of foodstuffs. Maybe I'll check out some SG2 knives in the future.



Not a single chip of any sort - handled it like a charm. 

Only time I've chipped a knife was using a ZKramer carbon to chop a chicken thigh bone...


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## sododgy (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Oh my god you’re right! I never thought of these. You saved my life.
> 
> Bur going back to the hypothetical example of trying a Razorsharp Yoshikazu Tanaka. Obviously you need to buy and try a knife to figure out what you want, but how would you consider whether to buy the one in Razorsharp over say one from Hirohira or another store brand that is also a Tanaka? I think the ones in Razorsharp are nice but are on the heavier side. (One person here posted he bought one from Razorsharp on vacation back when prices were lower and still considers it one of his best knives.)




Call or email and speak to them. Get a feel for the people answering your questions. Choose the one you think will offer the most emotional support should you run into issues or need further advice. Go with the one who's going to wonder how your day is going and how you're enjoying your knife a week or a month after you buy it. 

Or go for the one who's cold and treats you like the customer you are. The one you just know will forget about you the second you walk out of the shop. 

It's your world, I don't know what you're into.


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## esoo (Aug 4, 2020)

Carlo said:


> It sounds as though you managed to keep your mouth shut and just watch it happen?
> 
> Respect.



Yeah, I kept my mouth shut. Even though it wasn't a cheap knife, still an easier thing to fix than if I said something.


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## Jeezuinn (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Bur going back to the hypothetical example of trying a Razorsharp Yoshikazu Tanaka. Obviously you need to buy and try a knife to figure out what you want, but how would you consider whether to buy the one in Razorsharp over say one from Hirohira or another store brand that is also a Tanaka? I think the ones in Razorsharp are nice but are on the heavier side. (One person here posted he bought one from Razorsharp on vacation back when prices were lower and still considers it one of his best knives.)



At some point you are going to simply need to take the plunge. I believe many members here make their *informed* decisions by drawing on their knowledge and experiences with certain grinds,shapes, lengths, height, finishes or even the sharpeners themselves. And honestly, _knowledge of these may not have a significant impact at all if you don't have the experience to relate to._ Also many of these factors are subjective, good food release for eg may not be the case for you. Basically my point is, in the end you still need to get or use a knife to find out what works and does not work for you.

You are also not helping others to help you when you don't answer their questions.



Barmoley said:


> @josemartinlopez What are the knives you like so far?
> 
> Which knife length works best for you?
> 
> Do you like flat or more curved profile?



For one, maybe you can answer @Barmoley ?

Also, have you actually gone down to razorsharp to check knives out? If yes, what have you learnt about your preferences from there?
Have you started using your Hinouras? What do you like or dislike about them?


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## tchan001 (Aug 4, 2020)

I bought a knife off BST which was shipped from Finland to Hong Kong. Shipped May 1st and arrived June 2nd. But don't count on this as exact timing. I've had packages from the US which took 2 weeks and one I am still waiting on for about a month now.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Oh my god you’re right! I never thought of these. You saved my life.
> 
> Bur going back to the hypothetical example of trying a Razorsharp Yoshikazu Tanaka. Obviously you need to buy and try a knife to figure out what you want, but how would you consider whether to buy the one in Razorsharp over say one from Hirohira or another store brand that is also a Tanaka? I think the ones in Razorsharp are nice but are on the heavier side. (One person here posted he bought one from Razorsharp on vacation back when prices were lower and still considers it one of his best knives.)


My one word advice for you is to just “commit.” Find a knife you fancy, and “commit” to buying and using it. It really doesn’t matter to anyone—except for you—whether a Tanaka is from Razorsharp or Hitohira or JNS, what matters is that you made a commitment to buy and use. Respectfully, I do believe you’re overthinking, consuming precious time that could otherwise be used owning, holding, sharpening, using a knife. Owning a good knife is like sex—the real thing much more rewarding than watching PornHub. “Commit,” experience life.


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## M1k3 (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Oh my god you’re right! I never thought of these. You saved my life.
> 
> Bur going back to the hypothetical example of trying a Razorsharp Yoshikazu Tanaka. Obviously you need to buy and try a knife to figure out what you want, but how would you consider whether to buy the one in Razorsharp over say one from Hirohira or another store brand that is also a Tanaka? I think the ones in Razorsharp are nice but are on the heavier side. (One person here posted he bought one from Razorsharp on vacation back when prices were lower and still considers it one of his best knives.)


@daveb +1 question.


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## Nemo (Aug 4, 2020)

daveb said:


> CM, CM, CM, CM, CM


Woild it be approptiate to use "Bless your heart" in this circumstance?


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## TSF415 (Aug 4, 2020)

Does anyone feel like maybe Jose is just mark Richmond trolling the forum right now?


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## Corradobrit1 (Aug 4, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> Does anyone feel like maybe Jose is just mark Richmond trolling the forum right now?


I think he's got better things to do. Jose, not so much


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 4, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> I bought a knife off BST which was shipped from Finland to Hong Kong. Shipped May 1st and arrived June 2nd.


Bro, it's ridiculous but Finland's post office apparently ships to most Asian cities from China to Hong Kong to Vietnam, but they specifically refuse to ship to Singapore. It's almost like Finland's post office doesn't know the difference between Singapore, Jakarta and Manila. It's insane and someone needs to send them our government's tourism video (aka Crazy Rich Asians).


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## IsoJ (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Bro, it's ridiculous but Finland's post office apparently ships to most Asian cities from China to Hong Kong to Vietnam, but they specifically refuse to ship to Singapore. It's almost like Finland's post office doesn't know the difference between Singapore, Jakarta and Manila. It's insane and someone needs to send them our government's tourism video (aka Crazy Rich Asians).


Finland postoffice do what they like.


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## M1k3 (Aug 4, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Bro, it's ridiculous but Finland's post office apparently ships to most Asian cities from China to Hong Kong to Vietnam, but they specifically refuse to ship to Singapore. It's almost like Finland's post office doesn't know the difference between Singapore, Jakarta and Manila. It's insane and someone needs to send them our government's tourism video (aka Crazy Rich Asians).


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## IsoJ (Aug 4, 2020)

Man, buy a knife from Razorsharp and put a review about it to the forum. Popcorn is going to run out soon.


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## juice (Aug 4, 2020)

IsoJ said:


> Man, buy a knife from Razorsharp and put a review about it to the forum. Popcorn is going to run out soon.


Prepare to be ignored. If you want a response, post about freight or boards or theoretical knives - anything but actual knives.


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## zizirex (Aug 4, 2020)

RazorSharp, not Tangs, not Takashimaya, not ION, not 313, not Wisma Atria. Tell us as well if the Auntie or Uncle over there is nice to you?


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## GeneH (Aug 5, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Many knife makers have well defined lines that are familiar on this forum... However, a number of stores and retailers have their own lines....
> 
> Is there any way to navigate these store or retailer brands, especially if you have less experience gauging how a knife will perform? ....


I thought it was a good question, and the short answer, from the previous responses, is “you don’t.” If I followed some of the suggestions I’d be laughed out of KKF for the junk I list in BST.


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## lemeneid (Aug 5, 2020)

I’ve tried that Tanaka at Razorsharp. It’s a really awesome knife. Just get it. If you don’t like it, buy up my TF Denka, I guarantee satisfaction with that


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## lemeneid (Aug 5, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Hows that Chelsea Miller working out for you?


Are you talking about sex or the knife?


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## YumYumSauce (Aug 5, 2020)

Just curious, OP do you own any knives? I suppose one could get by well enough in the kitchen with only scissors.


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## DitmasPork (Aug 5, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> I’ve tried that Tanaka at Razorsharp. It’s a really awesome knife. Just get it. If you don’t like it, buy up my TF Denka, I guarantee satisfaction with that


@josemartinlopez Yeah, the Tanaka I got from Razorsharp is a stellar knife, but why not just go straight to the denka??!! Denka is life.


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## labor of love (Aug 5, 2020)

@josemartinlopez is obviously a troll at this point. Probably would be best to stop feeding it.


----------



## juice (Aug 5, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Denka is life.








Heh



labor of love said:


> @josemartinlopez is obviously a troll at this point. Probably would be best to stop feeding it.



Yeah, it's becoming more obvious as time goes on, I think you're right.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 5, 2020)

juice said:


> View attachment 89362
> 
> Heh
> 
> ...



This thread reminds me of the Seinfeld 'the show about nothing‘ episode.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 5, 2020)

labor of love said:


> @josemartinlopez is obviously a troll at this point. Probably would be best to stop feeding it.


Well, one theory that's floating around is they're writing a book. 

I'm actually thinking they're trying to write some app that'll provide a solution to a problem we don't have but they think we might.


----------



## tchan001 (Aug 5, 2020)

I don't know about Jose's app, but lemeneid's app would be easy to make.

Question: What knife should I get?
Answer: Denka


----------



## F-Flash (Aug 5, 2020)

Jose is just excited about this new knifeworld he has discovered. 

He's like a black hole, he's gonna suck all of our knowledge into him. Cut some corners of knife game while at it and buy few perfects knifes for him. Instead of dozens we others use before we settle down and know what we actually like and prefer.

So laugh is on us in the end.

Winner winner, chicken dinner.


----------



## tchan001 (Aug 5, 2020)

Well he hasn't moved up to honyaki and custom Western makers yet.


----------



## Inosuke Hashibira (Aug 5, 2020)

Since you are in singapore try Kitchin Tools. Ben, the owner, a great guy to deal with, you can ask him any questions you have. Will even deliver to you for free. 10% discount for new customer. He has Tanaka×kyuzo migaki in stock. 

I just like kitchin tools customer service better than other shop here in Singapore.


----------



## juice (Aug 5, 2020)

Inosuke Hashibira said:


> Since you are in singapore try Kitchin Tools.


I admire your optimism


----------



## Garm (Aug 5, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Bro, it's ridiculous but Finland's post office apparently ships to most Asian cities from China to Hong Kong to Vietnam, but they specifically refuse to ship to Singapore. It's almost like Finland's post office doesn't know the difference between Singapore, Jakarta and Manila. It's insane and someone needs to send them our government's tourism video (aka Crazy Rich Asians).


I've been biting my tongue until now, but are you for real? Meant as a serious question.
Several people have spent their time offering you good advice about how to acquire information and tried to help you in your decision making by asking you pertinent questions about your preferences, wants, needs, your knife use habits, and so on.. Yet, you don't reply to any of them, in the umpteenth thread you've created in a short time window, except to complain about the Finnish postal service???
This forum is a great resource, and many people here have lots of experience which they gladly share with newcomers and those of us with less knowledge in many areas of the knife world. If you start these threads that fill up the forum pages, at least have the decency and respect to answer and use the thread for it's intended purpose.
What you're doing here is essentially creating spam, making it harder for others to navigate the forum.
I understand being new to a hobby and a forum, we were all there once, but please consider how your patterns with these types of threads will impact the willingness of forum members to reply to other new members who also have legitimate questions.


----------



## osakajoe (Aug 5, 2020)

Dealing with reputable retailers who know what they are talking about is key. But do not expect them to know every brand out there or have tried this and that persons knife.


----------



## daveb (Aug 5, 2020)

Where have you been Joe? Long happy hour? Missed you.


----------



## osakajoe (Aug 5, 2020)

Once the app went away So did I.
but I try to log on here and there


----------



## RockyBasel (Aug 5, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> Yes, TF is sh1t, Toyanabe is sh1t, Kato is sh1t now.
> I only use Shuns and crowdfunded knives now, they’re awesome



Have you bought any of the Y tanaka’s from razor sharp? Since your profile says you are in SG - was thinking of buying one - but just got one from JNS, wonder if it’s worth it now


----------



## Ruso (Aug 5, 2020)

If the balde smith is known and he/she is a reputable person I think its almost certain that you will get a good knife. It might not be a knife for you, but a good knife never the less.

The problem comes to when neither the blade smith or sharpener are known. Then you have to trust the seller and your past experiences or the past experiences of others. That’s why this forum is gold.


----------



## julius777 (Aug 5, 2020)

Inosuke Hashibira said:


> Since you are in singapore try Kitchin Tools. Ben, the owner, a great guy to deal with, you can ask him any questions you have. Will even deliver to you for free. 10% discount for new customer. He has Tanaka×kyuzo migaki in stock.
> 
> I just like kitchin tools customer service better than other shop here in Singapore.


Do they have a website or link? Might try going there once this covid situation clears


----------



## julius777 (Aug 5, 2020)

julius777 said:


> Do they have a website or link? Might try going there once this covid situation clears



Nevermind. Found it. Thanks for this @Inosuke Hashibira .


----------



## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

lemeneid said:


> I’ve tried that Tanaka at Razorsharp. It’s a really awesome knife. Just get it. If you don’t like it, buy up my TF Denka, I guarantee satisfaction with that





Inosuke Hashibira said:


> Since you are in singapore try Kitchin Tools. He has Tanaka×kyuzo migaki in stock.





RockyBasel said:


> Have you bought any of the Y tanaka’s from razor sharp? Since your profile says you are in SG - was thinking of buying one - but just got one from JNS, wonder if it’s worth it now


Razorsharp Singapore Y Tanakas - Yoshikazu Tanaka

Hey @lemeneid, @F-Flash, can you describe your Razorsharp Yoshikazu Tanaka (White #2 Kurouchi Gyuto 240mm, Sakai Kikumori, Gokujyo Series)? The three guys who posted here who say they have it seem to like the heavier knives. The Razorsharp Tanaka 240mm weighs about 185g, while the Hitohira choices seem lighter and weigh about 150g.



tchan001 said:


> Well he hasn't moved up to honyaki and custom Western makers yet.


@F-Flash gave me some pointers, don't worry.


----------



## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

daveb said:


> Where have you been Joe? Long happy hour? Missed you.


Just polishing my sixth draft of a thread asking what Watanabe is better than TFTFTFTFTF. Sorry for the delay.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Razorsharp Singapore Y Tanakas - Yoshikazu Tanaka
> 
> Hey @lemeneid, @F-Flash, can you describe your Razorsharp Yoshikazu Tanaka (White #2 Kurouchi Gyuto 240mm, Sakai Kikumori, Gokujyo Series)? The three guys who posted here who say they have it seem to like the heavier knives. The Razorsharp Tanaka 240mm weighs about 185g, while the Hitohira choices seem lighter and weigh about 150g.
> 
> ...


What knives do you currently have? That’s immensely helpful in figuring out a good match for you.

TBH, I have no idea what your taste in knives are.


----------



## DitmasPork (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Just polishing my sixth draft of a thread asking what Watanabe is better than TFTFTFTFTF. Sorry for the delay.


Better for you to do a post on “why Watanabe is better than TF,” based on your experience and astute observations.


----------



## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

Garm said:


> ...asking you pertinent questions about your preferences, wants, needs, your knife use habits, and so on.. Yet, you don't reply to any of them, in the umpteenth thread you've created in a short time window, except to complain about the Finnish postal service???


Flying hog monkeys, so you're angry because you want to know what I think are the characteristics of my one, true, final, ultimate, grail knife but are also angry that I am complaining about the Finnish postal service???

You should read more, post less.


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## tchan001 (Aug 6, 2020)

What people want more than your questions are your sharing of your experiences with your knives. 

What made you decide to buy certain knives? 
Do they work well with the cutting techniques you enjoy? 
What stones do you use to sharpen? 
What grit do you sharpen your knives to? 
How well do your knives retain their edge? 
How's the food release of your knives?


----------



## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> TBH, I have no idea what your taste in knives are.


That makes two of us.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

tchan001 said:


> What made you decide to buy certain knives?


Slow down...


----------



## jacko9 (Aug 6, 2020)




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## DitmasPork (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> That makes two of us.



Commit! Buy this—not Tanakas you've mentioned, but in your wheelhouse (I think. New knife from JKI.):








Tangetsu 240mm White #1 Kurouchi Wa-Gyuto


Product Description Detailed Specs Measurements These White #1 knives feature a wide bevel design and kurouchi finish. There’s a stark visual contrast between the upper section of the knife and the polished bevels. The spine and choil are also nicely faceted to provide some comfort. As with most...




www.japaneseknifeimports.com


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## labor of love (Aug 6, 2020)

The questionator dodges questions like its child support.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Better for you to do a post on “why Watanabe is better than TF,” based on your experience and astute observations.


I take this as a promise to answer all my questions about the TF roulette.


----------



## tchan001 (Aug 6, 2020)

Ok, let's start slowly.

What knives are currently in your collection?


----------



## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

No offense, but I really, really did want to ask about store Brands.


----------



## childermass (Aug 6, 2020)

Wow, that’s actually an answer.
Time to celebrate!


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## M1k3 (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> View attachment 89508
> 
> No offense, but I really, really did want to ask about store Brands.


@ian I found a sharpied blade road for you.


----------



## ian (Aug 6, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> @ian I found a sharpied blade road for you.


----------



## McMan (Aug 6, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> @ian I found a sharpied blade road for you.


Do a google image search--Betcha that ain't JML's pic. 
Might be @ian's, but doubtful it's JML...


----------



## applepieforbreakfast (Aug 6, 2020)

McMan said:


> Do a google image search--Betcha that ain't JML's pic.
> Might be @ian's, but doubtful it's JML...



"No other sizes of this image found."

Not that it couldn't have been resized.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> View attachment 89508
> 
> No offense, but I really, really did want to ask about store Brands.


I have the 6" version of the middle. The bolster on mine has the same angle I sharpen at.

Some say "full bolster", I say "built-in angle guide"


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## daveb (Aug 6, 2020)

New picture = new thread


----------



## Colin (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> View attachment 89508
> 
> No offense, but I really, really did want to ask about store Brands.








The "Which Knife Should I Buy?" Questionnaire - v2


Please refer to the Kitchen Knife Knowledge subforum and the Kitchen Knife Glossary thread (LINK) for general information, including the knife types and other terminology used in this questionnaire. LOCATION What country are you in? KNIFE TYPE What type of knife are you interested in...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





If you answer our questions instead of dodging them, you will find that it is a lot easier to pick a knife.


----------



## Jville (Aug 6, 2020)

@Op, I can totally understand stressing out about buying the right knife, when you first start out. I stressed out too. Buy something cheap, heck sub$100. Learn how to sharpen and have fun with it. If you are stressing like this over your first purchase, you are really going to stress over maintaining an expensive knive or captured unicorn. Start on your journey man. I started off with a $65 Richmond artifax, learned how to sharpen on that knife and basically had the sharpest knife in the restaurant I worked at. I had to progress to even appreciate different kinds of grinds. I bet just a basic sharp japanese sub $150 knife would blow your mind. Enjoy being moved by that, it's a very glorious time in your knife joyrney


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## Colin (Aug 6, 2020)

I admire your ability to completely ignore any criticism.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

Read more, post less


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## M1k3 (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Read more, post less


Said the pot to the kettle.


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## Twigg (Aug 6, 2020)

This is so crazy that I would honestly cheer you on if you bought a Chicago Cutlery Essential 8" Chef's Knife! Only $9.50 and it has 4.2 stars according to the website. Essentials 8" Chef Knife

Bonus is that when you find your ultimate knife around the year 2065, you can use your trusty old Chicago to spatchcock a chicken, split a lobster or winter squash.


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 6, 2020)

I can understand where you're coming from. When I first got into this hobby, I also wanted to find The Perfect Knife, and spent too long reading other people's opinions online. Part of it was budget, being a poor grad student, but really it was mainly my personality. Looking back, it's clear I was creating an impossible quest to avoid my own problems in life.

Without ever having used one, I decided I needed The Perfect Laser Gyuto. I happened to live in Japan at the time, so I visited a bunch of stores and took choil photos of all the thinnest wa-gyutos I could find. Then I went home and compared them to determine which was the absolute thinnest, being convinced this would show me which was The Perfect Knife. Ridiculous!

I was actually proud of that thread for a while (sadly lost in the demise of foodieforums) but looking back at the memory now I cringe hard. I had spent god-knows how many hours pouring over this decision, making it needlessly complicated, and ultimately I sold the knife within a month. When I actually started using it I hated it! Today I own zero gyutos, because I just don't like them, but I had convinced myself it was The Perfect Knife based on other people's opinions.

Why am I bothering to say all this? I guess I feel a bit guilty for piling on the hate/frustration bandwagon. And I feel like the best way to respond is to reveal my own embarrassing noob story so you don't feel like we're all judging you high-and-mightily. The type of people who compare knives on an internet forum tend to suffer the same analysis-paralysis you're suffering now... and I wonder if a lot of the hate comes from seeing our own worst qualities reflected by another.

But we know from experience that jumping in feet first is the only way to get past this. Good luck!


----------



## jacko9 (Aug 6, 2020)




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## juice (Aug 6, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Today I own zero gyutos, because I just don't like them


We should form a club!


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> I decided I needed The Perfect Laser Gyuto. I happened to live in Japan at the time, so I visited a bunch of stores and took choil photos of all the thinnest wa-gyutos I could find. Then I went home and compared them to determine which was the absolute thinnest, being convinced this would show me which was The Perfect Knife. Ridiculous!


Truly appreciate the sentiment, but I asked a specific question about choosing between store brands. There's a specific example on the thread: thinking between the Yoshikazu Tanaka knives carried by Razorsharp in Singapore and by Hitohira (incidentally carried by Kitchin in Singapore). Not sure why there are four pages of comments on finding The Perfect Knife and no answers to the actual question.

If you don't know, that's fine. For example, one member messaged me saying he bought one of the Razorsharp Tanakas and he doesn't actually know anything about how it was made, but it's still one of his best among a formidable collection. That's not a bad answer.


----------



## juice (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Not sure why there are four pages of comments on finding The Perfect Knife and no answers to the actual question.


Because you refuse to answer any questions about actual knife usage so that people have a baseline to work from, you keep asking deliberately unanswerable troll questions.

There ya go, that's why.


----------



## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

Like I said, if you don't know, then you don't know. You don't need to say it over four pages.


----------



## juice (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Like I said, if you don't know, then you don't know. You don't need to say it over four pages.


I think you're missing the point, as per usual. If you want ACTUAL ANSWERS to your troll questions, you need to answer ACTUAL QUESTIONS from the people with a clue.


----------



## josemartinlopez (Aug 6, 2020)

Then politely, the actual question in this thread is not directed at you and I'd request you stop posting here. Thanks.


----------



## juice (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Then politely, the actual question in this thread is not directed at you and I'd request you stop posting here. Thanks.


Well, I'd suggest you get a beginner clue about how forums work, then you won't embarrass yourself with requests like that, and with your plethora of clueless troll threads.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Then politely, the actual question in this thread is not directed at you and I'd request you stop posting here. Thanks.



lol


----------



## labor of love (Aug 6, 2020)

No one answered your troll question because it’s unanswerable and somewhat ret*rded.
If you had any idea of what you actually wanted in terms of length height weight Handle and finish you could do this on your own. The information is available publicly and also you can contact the vendors themselves. But you aren’t even sure what you want, besides the desire to ask more questions.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Aug 6, 2020)




----------



## juice (Aug 6, 2020)

FINALLY one of JML's threads gives us something! MP FTW!


----------



## Colin (Aug 6, 2020)

I would recommend if we are not answering your questions you are better off asking the retailers themselves who sell the knives. We typically can help you decide between brands only if you help us help you.


----------



## McMan (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Then politely, the actual question in this thread is not directed at you and I'd request you stop posting here. Thanks.


Politely, I'd suggest _you_ stop posting here.


----------



## applepieforbreakfast (Aug 6, 2020)




----------



## spaceconvoy (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> ... Is there any way to navigate these store or retailer brands, especially if you have less experience gauging how a knife will perform? ...


Did you forget what you had written in your first post? You've been posting so much I'm not surprised you can't keep track of your own threads. I did answer your question, though my answer wasn't as specific as you'd have liked. As they say, you get what you pay for ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

No one here has the answer you're looking for. Even if there was another Singaporean forum member who happened to compare Tanaka knives between Razorsharp and Kitchin, their answer would be meaningless. You're asking about a handmade knife. If you _*go and compared them yourself*_, you'll likely find more variation in any two Tanaka knives at the same retailer than two Tanaka knives at different retailers.


----------



## ian (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Is there any way to navigate these store or retailer brands, especially if you have less experience gauging how a knife will perform? Take Yoshikazu Tanaka as an example, how would you gauge a knife if the retailer says he is the blacksmith but the other information is less familiar. Take Hitohira as a further example, how would you compare the different knives by Hitohira where Yoshikazu Tanaka is the blacksmith? I couldn't quite find old threads discussing this.



Ok, I'll answer the question. Typically, you would read the descriptions of the knives on their websites.

"Kyuzo’s father Heihachi is one of the busiest sharpeners in Sakai. Heihachi’s workshop room and corridor were always filled with knives waiting to be sharpened. Although Kyuzo initially worked under his father to learn the foundation of rough sharpening, eventually he became a student of Kambei, known as one of the best sharpeners in Sakai because he knew best how to sharpen wide double bevel knives. After a few years of training, he built his style based on both his father and Kambei’s respective styles. Today, Kyuzo is one of only a few people who can sharpen wide double bevel with really good Shinogi-line in Sakai, one of the most challenging techniques in sharpening."

You would learn from this that Tanaka Kyuzos are wide bevel, which means they are probably very thin behind the edge, easy to maintain, with reasonable food release but perhaps wedgy in tall dense items. You would learn this about wide bevels by searching through the forum about wide bevel knives. You would also look at the specs of the Tanaka Kyuzo and compare them to those of Tanaka Yohei or something, noting that Yohei has a convex grind instead of a wide bevel one.

TLDR: read the websites, search the forum.

Real advice: Buy something already! I know you already did, but buy something locally too so it'll arrive sooner, and so you'll have another point of comparison. There is no perfect knife. It's all about preference. All the knives you are asking about are amazing. You can't learn your preferences without trying something.


----------



## TSF415 (Aug 6, 2020)

It's pretty clear at this point he's trolling and unfortunately he's being somewhat successful.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 6, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Truly appreciate the sentiment, but I asked a specific question about choosing between store brands. There's a specific example on the thread: thinking between the Yoshikazu Tanaka knives carried by Razorsharp in Singapore and by Hitohira (incidentally carried by Kitchin in Singapore). Not sure why there are four pages of comments on finding The Perfect Knife and no answers to the actual question.
> 
> If you don't know, that's fine. For example, one member messaged me saying he bought one of the Razorsharp Tanakas and he doesn't actually know anything about how it was made, but it's still one of his best among a formidable collection. That's not a bad answer.





josemartinlopez said:


> Like I said, if you don't know, then you don't know. You don't need to say it over four pages.





josemartinlopez said:


> Then politely, the actual question in this thread is not directed at you and I'd request you stop posting here. Thanks.


What kind of plan would you come up with to get a full keg of beer out of a walk-in refrigerator at a restaurant? You only have the clothes you have on, a knife roll and a regular sized backpack.

Asking for a friend.


----------



## josemartinlopez (Aug 7, 2020)

Thanks very much Ian. But I'm asking more in the context of how to think this through if you have something like the Razorsharp Tanaka Kikumori knives where you don't even have the name of the sharpener.

Beautiful Tanaka Yohei on BST by the way, probably a knife I would love over the Kyuzo you mentioned. The non-stainless finish would just make me nervous.


----------



## spaceconvoy (Aug 7, 2020)

drink it over the course of a few days, taking breaks passed out on sacks of potatoes, pissing it down the floor drain, then it should be easy to lift out of the walk-in


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 7, 2020)

My friend would prefer to get it all in one swoop. @josemartinlopez any advice?


----------



## applepieforbreakfast (Aug 7, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> But I'm asking more in the context of how to think this through if you have something like the Razorsharp Tanaka Kikumori knives where you don't even have the name of the sharpener.



The truth about sharpeners...


----------



## tchan001 (Aug 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> My friend would prefer to get it all in one swoop. @josemartinlopez any advice?


Pay a huge premium and buy out marc4pt0's collection for knives and nutmeg's collection for stones. LOL


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 7, 2020)

Interesting. What's the low budget version?


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 7, 2020)

Remember, you can only use the clothes you have on, knife roll and regular sized backpack.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> My friend would prefer to get it all in one swoop. @josemartinlopez any advice?


Best to get advice from the Singapore government on that.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 7, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Best to get advice from the Singapore government on that.


But you're here. 

Nice to see you aren't completely ignoring me. Still not sure what you want. You still haven't answered my questions to your original questions asking for advice.


I’ll tell you what, you can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a bull’s ass, but I’d rather take the butcher’s word for it.


----------



## soigne_west (Aug 7, 2020)

If you don't have all night service, you could see if you fin in an empty flour storage bin, wait till everyone leaves, and take more then just the beer. GL


----------



## spaceconvoy (Aug 7, 2020)

ah, the rules were a bit vague, but I'd like to take another crack at it (lest anyone else accuse me of not answering specific forum questions)... I'd take all my clothes off and put them in the backpack. This has nothing to do with moving the keg, but adds to the theatrical effect. Then I'd remove all the wa handles from the knife roll, place them under the keg and roll it across the floor, like the ancient egyptians did with pyramid blocks.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 7, 2020)

My friend says it was a great idea. He just has reservations of being accused of cultural appropriation.


----------



## josemartinlopez (Aug 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Nice to see you aren't completely ignoring me.


----------



## soigne_west (Aug 7, 2020)

@josemartinlopez , I'm gonna be straight with you man. Pretty much everyone here whose opinion is worth a damn, has tried numerous times to help you. We've done our best to answer your questions. We've given suggestions on what to do. As much as it might not seem like it, we don't have answers to all the nuanced questions. Hell, we don't even know what your preferences are. It lies upon you now my friend. Most of us take a little of the information and suggestion here and buy what our gut is telling us to buy. It's now your turn to do that. I hope you find all the knives that make you happy. And the ones that don't, you'll learn from. It's all part of the process my friend. Don't try and cheat your way to the top.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 7, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> View attachment 89597


PM sent


----------



## josemartinlopez (Aug 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> PM sent



OK this is all good fun, but I'll draw the line at PM'ing me for my phone number and asking to talk. This has crossed the line into stalker behaviour and is getting creepy.



soigne_west said:


> @josemartinlopez , I'm gonna be straight with you man.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 7, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> OK this is all good fun, but I'll draw the line at PM'ing me for my phone number and asking to talk. This has crossed the line into stalker behaviour and is getting creepy.


My apologies. I took your picture as you wanting to exchange numbers. Guess the message was lost in translation?


----------



## juice (Aug 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> and regular sized backpack.


How is it possible to answer this when you're so vague about the backpack size?



soigne_west said:


> Pretty much everyone here whose opinion is worth a damn, has tried numerous times to help you.


Hey! I did too, once.


----------



## M1k3 (Aug 7, 2020)

Regular sized school backpack without any extra pockets. Like all the cool and uncool school aged kids have. Some even have this thing called a "Pikachu" on it.


----------



## captaincaed (Aug 7, 2020)

Stop giving this fire more oxygen. All y'all. Just let it burn out.


----------



## Twigg (Aug 7, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Thanks very much Ian. But I'm asking more in the context of how to think this through if you have something like the Razorsharp Tanaka Kikumori knives where you don't even have the name of the sharpener.
> 
> Beautiful Tanaka Yohei on BST by the way, probably a knife I would love over the Kyuzo you mentioned. The non-stainless finish would just make me nervous.


He did answer that for you as best he can, as did others. You can not have a full "experience or wisdom" transfer from members here. You need to read what is in the forum. A really helpful place is the threads on passarounds. You can see lots of photos of a passaround blade and read about each person's thoughts on it after they have actually used it. This can help you get a start. Ultimately, you have to experience different knives for yourself to get the answers you seek. The whole package of thought, experience, wisdom and knowledge cannot be gleaned from questions & answer sessions. If you would have read some, you would realize that some of these blacksmiths and sharpeners apprenticed for decades before they became experts. They went through a lot of trial and error to get there. The trial and error method applies to you too.


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## cotedupy (Aug 7, 2020)

Shall we wrap this thread up...? It's not going anywhere for anyone.


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## NotThinEnough (Aug 8, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Truly appreciate the sentiment, but I asked a specific question about choosing between store brands. There's a specific example on the thread: thinking between the Yoshikazu Tanaka knives carried by Razorsharp in Singapore and by Hitohira (incidentally carried by Kitchin in Singapore). Not sure why there are four pages of comments on finding The Perfect Knife and no answers to the actual question.
> 
> If you don't know, that's fine. For example, one member messaged me saying he bought one of the Razorsharp Tanakas and he doesn't actually know anything about how it was made, but it's still one of his best among a formidable collection. That's not a bad answer.



This is a good inquiry from a consumer's perspective. We don't want to make an expensive mistake. What's the difference between this Tanaka and that Tanaka from over there?

This question is justified because the Japanese knife industry is complicated.. Our trusted vendors share what details they can, but even they are often muzzled when the info is 'sensitive'. And some of them just make stuff up because admitting not knowing a truly minute detail may hurt their rep. In addition, craftsmen are only human; they have good days and bad days.. plus, the summer heat in Japan is infernal. Do you think these smiths work with full A/C? Mr.Tanaka is not a machine. The reject piles in the sharpeners' workshops are higher than you think, and you will find works by revered names here such as Shiraki, Genkai, Togashi,etc. And man, the sharperners? There are truly minute/large differences from even the same sharperner over their often extremely long careeres (just look at Fujiyama history thread by Omega).

Ergo, there is a lot of mystery about product quality wrapped in privileged facts, misinformation, and natural inconsistencies. So the guiding principle is _caveat emptor,_ buyer beware. This forum is essential for this very reason.

But of course, there are some things the buyer can do to be 'woke' and not get swindled to an expensive purchase with big names (e.g. many Genakis are sold in horrible shapes.. but these get bought for a different reason, I suppose).

First, like what many members here said already, know what your knife preferences are. But be flexible. Your taste changes.

Second, use them at a shop that lets you, to test the geometry on denser produce such as carrots or sweet potates etc. If you can't, idk, buy&test the blades like everyone.. because the vendors might not tell you the the nuances even if they know, but most often they don't know the differences themselves. Or won't admit they don't know it.

Third, and this is the real prize, you gotta get really really good at polishing and fixing knives. I mean, better than most professionals. You gotta spend some quality time.

Truthfully, sharpening the edge tells you very little about the forging or the overall shaping/geometry of a blade. The common light reflection test for geometry, sighting the edge alignment, choil shots all have their limits. Stones reveal much more, though most sharpeners don't know how to interpret what the abrasion patterns show. But when you polish many blades with a specific intent to study the effects of different stones and achieving certain colors/polish on a surface, you may get a sense of a blade's production quality.

This method works synergistically because to get after that great stone polishing you envision, naturally you learn to straighten blades, identify warping, see tapers and understand the geometry combined with the blade's functions. You win some an lose some here. But you learn always, and this is the key to really undestanding the different brand/store labels. When one gets to a next level undestanding of sharpening, you just see the differences.. more of them anyways. 

But we live in a real world with limited resources. There are truly very, very few sharpeners who have the time & knowledge to ascertain and articulate the practical differences in Tanaka forged blades sharpened by different sharpeners, by purely sharpening/polishing a bunch from multiple batches. Outside of doing this, you are making highly educated guesses. Some of these guys don't even own a knife shop or work in the knife industry. Even fewer have the will to teach/train others, and explain these things in layman's terms to the mass. Side topic; I always respected JBroida for this very reason.

To answer your specific conern, you have to pick your prospect knives, post photos of their geometry to the best of your knowledge and ability, then weigh the experts' opnions based on the photos. If you don't trust experts, you gotta learn things yourself. If then maybe things will change.._ Caveat venditor?_


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## sododgy (Aug 9, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Regular sized school backpack without any extra pockets. Like all the cool and uncool school aged kids have. Some even have this thing called a "Pikachu" on it.



We talking Jansport? Eastpak? 

If it's a Jansport, are we talking talking that wack nylon that blew out by the end of the year, or the corduroy with the suede bottom? 

Also, does the back door have cameras?


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## M1k3 (Aug 9, 2020)

sododgy said:


> We talking Jansport? Eastpak?
> 
> If it's a Jansport, are we talking talking that wack nylon that blew out by the end of the year, or the corduroy with the suede bottom?
> 
> Also, does the back door have cameras?


My friend says, not either brand, but, like Jansport with leather bottom. The color has faded some. It's been around for a few years.

He says there's cameras in the walk-in, outside the walk-in pointed at the door. Another at the back door, inside and out, and throughout the dining area. 2 cameras on the front door.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 9, 2020)

NotThinEnough said:


> you have to pick your prospect knives, post photos of their geometry to the best of your knowledge and ability, then weigh the experts' opnions based on the photos. If you don't trust experts, you gotta learn things yourself. If then maybe things will change.._ Caveat venditor?_


Yeah thanks for actually answering the question, and I understand the limits to the answers given the industry is opaque. But since, as you say, we cannot possibly all become expert sharpeners, are there more ways to make a more intelligent Guess to filter your choices before you try something, especially if not the options are available for physical testing given Covid-19 travel restrictions?

could we try the specific example floated, the Kikumori Tanakas (with detailed pictures on Razorsharp) and Hitohira Tanakas (with detailed pictures on Hitohira and other sites)? I appreciate that most of the people who responded here would not have direct experience with both lines hence the string of off topic responses trying to be funny, but hearing someone compare two specific knives draws out some common points you can use to think about other comparisons.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 9, 2020)

Or to ask the question another way, is the industry so opaque that some people just go to Tsubaya or Kiya and buy a knife they brand at a premium with the belief that these retailers would have filtered the choices very intelligently to provide a knife that meets a general set of preference you give and that you can rely on these retailers' after market service to sort any dissatisfaction? (Much like how members here have formed relationships with their area's seller?)


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## M1k3 (Aug 9, 2020)

1 idea tossed around was to fill up Cambro's with the beer. My friend says he thinks 2 green lid ones of those might fight in the backpack. But that leaves behind some beer...


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## M1k3 (Aug 9, 2020)

Hypothetically speaking. Just putting it out there. For a friend also.


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## juice (Aug 9, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Hypothetically speaking. Just putting it out there. For a friend also.


If I had friends, I'd try that one too.


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## TSF415 (Aug 9, 2020)

I need to purchase a new bed and don’t want to start a new thread. Anyone out there have a strong recommendation towards a certain one. Store brand or retailer line?


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## juice (Aug 9, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> I need to purchase a new bed and don’t want to start a new thread. Anyone out there have a strong recommendation towards a certain one. Store brand or retailer line?


Buy the one with the TF-forged springs. It's a bit hard to tell sometimes with OEM springs, though. HTH!


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## bryan03 (Aug 9, 2020)

I know a guy who once cut 30mm off a yo shig gyuto with an angle grinder cause no one needs a 300mm gyuto


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## M1k3 (Aug 9, 2020)

TSF415 said:


> I need to purchase a new bed and don’t want to start a new thread. Anyone out there have a strong recommendation towards a certain one. Store brand or retailer line?


Purple? Or that sleep zone, reclining, heating AND cooling? Oh the one with the remote for the significant other to use to make the other one stop SNORING!?!!!

















DISCLAIMER: I have not tried them nor endorse them. Good day.


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## sododgy (Aug 9, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> My friend says, not either brand, but, like Jansport with leather bottom. The color has faded some. It's been around for a few years.
> 
> He says there's cameras in the walk-in, outside the walk-in pointed at the door. Another at the back door, inside and out, and throughout the dining area. 2 cameras on the front door.





He's got to Oceans 11 it. This man needs a team. 




M1k3 said:


> 1 idea tossed around was to fill up Cambro's with the beer. My friend says he thinks 2 green lid ones of those might fight in the backpack. But that leaves behind some beer...




Oh ****, I thought removing the actual keg was a part of the ordeal. Honestly, finding a way to fritz the cameras seems like best option. 

Outside of elaborate plans involving multiple parties, or technilogical known how, I think taking it out a few at a time in his stomache is the best. "accidnetly" gunk or bump the camera and then start rapping and drinking individually. No one looks for what they don't know is missing, and by they time they realize and actually check the footage, it's too late. 

Can I get blue prints?


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## spaceconvoy (Aug 9, 2020)

people here can be so dismissive  so I'll try to genuinely answer your question: it depends


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## labor of love (Aug 9, 2020)

Can’t wait until Jose Questionator posts in show your newest knife buy. 
He might just break the internet.


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## labor of love (Aug 9, 2020)

Also, now following for mattress advice.


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## M1k3 (Aug 9, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Can’t wait until Jose Questionator posts in show your newest knife buy.
> He might just break the internet.


I have Jose on ignore. My internet is safe! Phew!


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## juice (Aug 9, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I have Jose on ignore. My internet is safe! Phew!


Ah, the old head in the sand method! If the internet blows up, brother, it blows up!


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## M1k3 (Aug 9, 2020)

juice said:


> Ah, the old head in the sand method! If the internet blows up, brother, it blows up!


BBS!


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## M1k3 (Aug 9, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> BBS!


I was a weird kid...or just getting old...


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## juice (Aug 9, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I was a weird kid...or just getting old...


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## soigne_west (Aug 9, 2020)

labor of love said:


> Can’t wait until Jose Questionator posts in show your newest knife buy.
> He might just break the internet.



What’s going to happen when he needs to sharpen his knives????? God forbid he gets into natural stones


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## IsoJ (Aug 9, 2020)

What about customs, there might be some challenges to even get one out


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## simar (Aug 9, 2020)

soigne_west said:


> What’s going to happen when he needs to sharpen his knives????? God forbid he gets into natural stones☠☠☠☠


Did you really have to get him started on jnats? I can see it now, "What is the best jnat, and which deity do I need to appease to get it?"


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## Codered (Aug 9, 2020)

Guys what is going on on this thread?
I tried to follow and it's a total mess. First of all where are the admins? This feels like a complete mockery of the OP. I read his comments and they were some legit concerns. If you don't have any interest in the thread just move on to another topic. But just jeering and making this guy feel like crap is not ok.
From the first page there are off topic postings which are just malicious towards a guy with a question. Are these the values we treasure in this forum and community? 
There is a saying: there are no stupid questions only stupid answers.
Perhaps the admins can clean this thread of the off topic mess.
An yes i have made my own mess in another thread and deserved my posts being deleted.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 9, 2020)

Hey thanks. This is mild, there was another thread where someone PM’d me to ask me for my phone number and said he wanted to call me.


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## TSF415 (Aug 9, 2020)

Codered said:


> Guys what is going on on this thread?
> I tried to follow and it's a total mess. First of all where are the admins? This feels like a complete mockery of the OP. I read his comments and they were some legit concerns. If you don't have any interest in the thread just move on to another topic. But just jeering and making this guy feel like crap is not ok.
> From the first page there are off topic postings which are just malicious towards a guy with a question. Are these the values we treasure in this forum and community?
> There is a saying: there are no stupid questions only stupid answers.
> ...



the op has been trolling the forum. He/she/it/they are making a mockery of the forum and the people are fighting back


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## M1k3 (Aug 9, 2020)

OP made posts with question(s). We responded. OP creates new thread asking question(s). We responded again. Continue cycle. First time OP posts something that's not creating another thread asking questions, OP talks down about Finland mail system...


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## ian (Aug 9, 2020)

Btw, to actually answer the question (come on people!) you could also maybe line the backpack with a heavy duty plastic bag and then just fill it up with beer. That would make optimal use of the backpack volume. This technique would work especially well with one of those Camelbak type drinking hoses or whatever attached to it.


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## labor of love (Aug 9, 2020)

Codered said:


> Guys what is going on on this thread?
> I tried to follow and it's a total mess. First of all where are the admins? This feels like a complete mockery of the OP. I read his comments and they were some legit concerns. If you don't have any interest in the thread just move on to another topic. But just jeering and making this guy feel like crap is not ok.
> From the first page there are off topic postings which are just malicious towards a guy with a question. Are these the values we treasure in this forum and community?
> There is a saying: there are no stupid questions only stupid answers.
> ...


Bless your heart.


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## Codered (Aug 9, 2020)

Ok. I did not follow this whole conflict. I thought everyone went nuts. I see there are multiple threads popping up with this guy. I am just sensitive to conflict. Guess getting beat up as a kid made me an overprotective adult.
But we should focus on knives and stones rather than trolls or we will become trolls also


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## McMan (Aug 9, 2020)

soigne_west said:


> What’s going to happen when he needs to sharpen his knives????? God forbid he gets into natural stones☠☠☠☠


Quiet! Delete your post lest he see it!


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 11, 2020)

Too late.


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## M1k3 (Aug 11, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> Too late.









I can start a WhatsApp chat if you don't want show everyone.


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## M1k3 (Aug 11, 2020)

P.S. @josemartinlopez you can invite someone else so you don't feel alone.


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## tchan001 (Aug 11, 2020)

Perhaps after Jose finishes his knife buying spree, he'll blow you all away with his wisdom on gauging store brands and retailer lines.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 11, 2020)

@tchan001, I have some questions on Japanese natural stones. Will PM you.


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## M1k3 (Aug 11, 2020)

I know a guy. Some people call him Calgary.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 11, 2020)

The guy with the incredible Insta account I'm planning to invite on the yacht as my Plan B?


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## M1k3 (Aug 11, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> The guy with the incredible Insta account I'm planning to invite on the yacht as my Plan B?


He's Canadian? Posting pictures lately of his outdoor excursions?


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 11, 2020)

And meat? Lots of meat?


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## M1k3 (Aug 11, 2020)

josemartinlopez said:


> And meat? Lots of meat?


Meat. Knives. Yeah that's the guy.


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## josemartinlopez (Aug 11, 2020)

I Guess I should PM him too.


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## sododgy (Aug 12, 2020)




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