# The 'kanji' on our knives



## Cutty Sharp

I take it that only a few members here know more than a few Japanese words - _sushi, sashimi, tsunami_ and the inevitable knife stuff like _nakiri, kasumi, sujihiki_ etc. In fact you probably know more knife words than other words in Japanese! Anyway, despite spending over 2 years in Japan I'm not really that different as I used English at home and work, and it was also more than 10 years ago. I know a bit of Nihon-go, but would like to learn a bit more - especially knife-related these days - and so was wondering if anyone could contribute to a thread on how to decipher a bit of what those etchings on our knives say? (Or stones...? and so on.) Maybe this kind of stuff hasn't been posted much before and could be useful.
:sumo:

First of all, I can contribute this: I'm not sure how many people are actually aware that Japanese traditionally uses 3 different scripts, of which kanji is just one. Sometimes people post things like, 'I can't read kanji.' However, I'm not completely sure if this means that they can read the 2 other main scripts, hiragana and katakana, or not. Probably not, I'd guess.

They're not that tough to tell apart, with a little practice, and they have different roles. Kanji is the most complex-looking one, Chinese characters that began to be used in Japan a couple thousand years ago, for example: &#28450;&#23383; (kanji), &#26085;&#26412; (Japan), &#26481;&#20140; (Tokyo), &#22586;&#24066; (Sakai), &#37325;&#25151; (Shigefusa). They're terribly complex and can mean different things, with many/most characters having more than 1 pronunciation, I believe. I only know a few of these - and for good reason as it's an absolute mess. Unfortunately, these are what we usually find on knives, they give the maker's name, and so I try to recognise them a bit.

Hiragana is the best-looking script, I think. It's less complex than kanji and is kind of loopy: &#12402;&#12425;&#12364;&#12394; (hiragana), &#12362;&#12373;&#12363; (Osaka), &#12399;&#12418;&#12398; (hamono). It's generally used phonetically, which makes it way easier to learn, with each character usually representing one Japanese 'sound', such as &#12402; (hi) &#12425; (ra) &#12364; (ga) &#12394; (na). Hiragana's used to represent hard kanji and for grammar, etc. You don't really see it on knives, though.

Then there's katakana, the simplest-looking script; straighter lines than hiragana. It's basically always phonetic and matches the Japanese sounds as hiragana usually does too: &#12490;&#12452;&#12501; (knife or 'na-i-fu'), &#12461;&#12483;&#12481;&#12455;&#12531; (kitchen or 'kii-chi-n'). This is the script I learned first as most words recently imported into the Japanese language are written in katakana. Very helpful when doing grocery shopping and reading labels, for example, even if the Japan-ised version of a word is a bit different. (Canned tuna, I remember, isn't called 'tuna' in Japanese but &#12471;&#12540;&#12481;&#12461;&#12531; or 'shiichikin' - 'sea chicken' - which I always thought was hilarious.) 
:chicksign:

(Incidentally, romanji - our roman alphabet - is used quite a lot in Japan. Indo-Arabic numerals - 1,2,3... - are probably more common than their kanji equivalents.)


Here's some useful kanji as an example: &#30333; is white and &#38738; is blue, while &#19968; is 1 and &#20108; is 2, and so if you see &#30333; and &#20108; you can pretty much be sure a knife is shirogami #2. With katakana you might see &#12473;&#12454;&#12455;&#12540;&#12487;&#12531; which is pronounced as 'sue-de-n' and so you know you've got Swedish steel. Or you might see a kanji/katakana combo like &#38738;&#32025;&#12473;&#12540;&#12497;&#12540; &#37628; which contains the 'blue' kanji and also the katakana &#12473;&#12540;&#12497;&#12540; or 'suu-paa', and so you know you're got Aogami Super steel.

Hope this is interesting/useful. Please post if you have something to add.


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## chinacats

Very informative, thanks.


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## Cutty Sharp

Well, not the most overwhelming response to this thread so far. Must mean that, a) people aren't really into learning a bit of Japanese, or b) people don't know enough to contribute, or c) maybe both! :dontknow: However, I like it and will still try to contribute now and then when I find something that could be useful.

Found this, which just came up on a recent 'ID this knife'-type thread: 

&#20316; = make/made and could help to ID the maker's name; thus, if I take the most common surname in Japan - Satou or &#20304;&#34276; apparently - and he's a knifemaker, you could end up with &#20304;&#34276;&#20316; on a blade, for example.

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/047/206/106/106206047_742.jpg

&#30331;&#37682; = can mean registered/certified; it was pictured on the blade in this thread http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...ID-help-please?p=137168&highlight=#post137168

I'm also wondering if anyone can spot it on the 'reg'd in Sakai' stickers on Sakai knives? I also see it on this cert http://http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/047/206/106/106206047_742.jpg


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## Cutty Sharp

&#30331;&#37682;&#37325;&#25151; - authentic or 'registered' Shigefusa; probably their older style


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## skewed

I totally forgot to post a thank you! I appreciate your post. Keep it up.


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## Zwiefel

Just read this....nice write-up!

I knew about the 3 different character sets...and aside from knife/food terms know--well, USED to know--a lot of judo/aikido terms 

That's about it for me though.


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## andur

Interesting thread! I've only got one funny story to contribute. I don't have the pictures with me but I did take some macro shots of my knives and then posted them to a Japanese professor (from japan) in my University. I just wanted to ask what the writings say on my Tanaka and Shimatani knives. And also the knife boxes and such.

The reply I got was pretty short and the japanese teacher said "Oh sorry, it seems the knives carry the makers names which I cannot read. If you have been shown such a name (with such a writing style) and you have memorized it, then you can read it. But if it's a name you haven't seen before then you can't even guess." So I didn't get a reply what names might be on the knives. The professor did say that one of the knives carried the steel mark, ("This is interesting, something like blue paper number two, does that make any sense?" she said:lol2, the city in which it was made and then the steel manufacturer also. 

So what I learned was that "hey I speak japanese!" won't help much if the writings on our knives carry old family pictograms or rare names etc. Must be a complex language to write in!


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## DeepCSweede

This is very interesting - hopefully some more people can contribute - I have nothing to share only to learn.


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## Xuster

hmmm I don't know much about japanese but Kanji is basically traditional Chinese and the meanings will be the same. It's true that each individual character has multiple definitions, but taken in context, there's only so many things a character can mean. So if you were really motivated, you could get your self a traditional Chinese-english dictionary and figure these out. Looking up Chinese characters via strokes is actually fairly easy despite how complicated some of these characters look.


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## Montrachet

Thank you Sir for these helpfull informations. Hope to read and learn more. Very interesting for me.


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## Madmox

I could use a little help in this respect too in this regard. I have been looking at this yanagi and deba and the seller claims they are kikuichi but neither have the seal so i would love to know if anyone can identify who they are really made by. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks,
Colin


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## cclin

yanagi is Shigefusa. don't understand third kanji on deba; however, I'm 100% sure isn't kikuichi


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## kalaeb

This thread reminds me, I have not heard from Cutty in awhile, I miss giving him a hard time about his ho.....handles


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## Madmox

much appreciated! the battle is half won! I knew they weren't kikuishi because they didn't have the seal but the question is are they still worth what they are asking!

Thanks,
Colin


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## Zwiefel

For some reason that made me imagine Cutty doing a spoof of this 80's classic:

[video=youtube;gWtPiS4rPa4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWtPiS4rPa4[/video]


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## Slypig5000

Thanks for the write up, I thought this was very interesting, I knew nothing about kanji before reading this. Now I know just enough to be dangerous.


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## Madmox

So the Shig and the deba are both from Kiya and thats what the kanji on both the fronts of the blades say. And the Kanji below the registration mark on the deba is "gold" Then "Wood".


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## Sambar Stag

Thanks so much for this post! It has been very helpful to me. I have an inherited yo - gyoto that was used by my late stepmother for as long as I remember that has been called a very special knife by all that have used it. With the help of your research I have identified "Japan", "Registered/Authorized", and "Sweden". A yanagi with saya has the same Japan, registered/authorized, but also "blue" with no obvious number character after it. They have more characters that that, of course, but this is a start.


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## ChuckTheButcher

I have nothing to add but thank you for this. It is very informative. Maybe I won't have to skype my cousins Japanese wife every other day if I learn a little more.


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## Asteger

Very nice explanation!


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## Mateyhv

Nice explanation, kanji always looks cool. Thinking if some egyptian hyerogliphs would be equally cool :tease: So we would have french kitchen knives made from swedish steel in japanese blacksmiths with some egyptian hyeros and distributed through US to anywhere in the world. Globalization in its purest form. :lol2:

By the way, can someone read that beautiful kanji? From the above explanation I think the last picture reads &#38738;&#19968; or "blue 1". Thanks


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## cclin

"&#24184;&#20043;&#31056;"=Konosuke, yes,"&#38738;&#19968;"=blue 1


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## fecfitz

Can anybody tell me whats written on this knife? I dont´t know the brand


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## osakajoe

&#21512;&#32701;&#27211; - Kappa bashi
Just an area in Tokyo I believe similar to doguyasuji in osaka. 

Other part might just be the shops name
&#12363;&#12414;.... Ka ma
Can't read the last hiragana maybe &#12395;
ni?


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## JBroida

yeah... its kamata


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## osakajoe

JBroida said:


> yeah... its kamata



Thanks! 

That's a very stylish way of writing &#12383;


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## JMJones

I picked this 240mm ish yanagi recently. Anyone have any idea of the kanji?









Any insight will be appreciated. 

Thanks

John


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## osakajoe

If possible a more close up shot so I can read the kanji clearly.


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## JMJones

first set of characters






Second set of characters


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## osakajoe

A bit tough but I think this I the closest I can get. 

&#27491;&#23447;&#20108;&#21313;&#22235;&#20195;&#65311;
Masamune 24th generation 

_?_&#24195;&#20316;
___hiro saku 
(note &#24195; is the way they right hiro today. The kanji on the knife is the old version)
Saku means made by or maker 

Had to ask my colleague on this one and even with her knowledge if working at the knife museum she couldn't tell me that one kanji.


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## mill

osakajoe said:


> A bit tough but I think this I the closest I can get.
> 
> &#27491;&#23447;&#20108;&#21313;&#22235;&#20195;&#65311;
> Masamune 24th generation
> 
> _?_&#24195;&#20316;
> ___hiro saku
> (note &#24195; is the way they right hiro today. The kanji on the knife is the old version)
> Saku means made by or maker
> 
> Had to ask my colleague on this one and even with her knowledge if working at the knife museum she couldn't tell me that one kanji.



http://www.sword-masamune.com/en/info.html


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## DaninMD

is anyone able to determine this one? from a non-descript ebay purchase. maybe a Tojiro? looks similar to some postings i have seen that were Tojiro


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## osakajoe

I posted in your other thread. 


osakajoe said:


> The reason why you recognize the last kanji, saku - &#20316;, is because it just means production or manufactured. Most knife brands put that at the end of their names. Kind of like saying osaka joe manufacturing.
> 
> Anyways to get on to the other kanji. It can be read one of two ways.
> &#38263;&#20426;&#20316; Nagatoshi-saku or Choshun-saku.
> More likely Nagatoshi as the other one is worded strangely.


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## RocketPower

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?p=331154
Hi all, 
Posted this in another thread.
Maybe someone can help me here.

Cheers,


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## mise_en_place

Cutty Sharp said:


> Incidentally, romanji - our roman alphabet - is used quite a lot in Japan. Indo-Arabic numerals - 1,2,3... - are probably more common than their kanji equivalents.



Not to nitpick, but it's romaji, not romanji.


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## Mortnate

I'm new to the forums and I'm glad there is a community sharing and increasing our knowledge. 

I recently purchased a yanagiba and a deba from an eBay seller. Not sure on the maker. Came from someone who purchased them from an estate sale, a collector of Japanese items who passed away. Took a chance as they were old and never used or sharpened. Still waiting on delivery and I can post more photos once they arrive. Picture is zoomed in on one of the eBay listing photos. 

Any help if possible would be appreciated.


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## no_one_just_Roy

hi everyone, just another nameless japanese lurker here. 


Mortnate said:


> View attachment 26084
> 
> 
> I'm new to the forums and I'm glad there is a community sharing and increasing our knowledge.
> 
> I recently purchased a yanagiba and a deba from an eBay seller. Not sure on the maker. Came from someone who purchased them from an estate sale, a collector of Japanese items who passed away. Took a chance as they were old and never used or sharpened. Still waiting on delivery and I can post more photos once they arrive. Picture is zoomed in on one of the eBay listing photos.
> 
> Any help if possible would be appreciated.



So... it reads &#30331;&#37682; &#24544;&#38596;&#20316; (touroku Tadao(?) saku/ Registered (made) by Tadao)

I'm not familier with that name so I had to look up for it.
And it looks like the knife is a cheaper side, baseline quality, soft iron / carbon steel (SK-5 steel?) forged one.
I couldn't find the details on who made it, but seems like it's by some blacksmith in Tsubame Sanjo area, Niigata prefecture.


And, better late than never so... quoting from the other thread


RocketPower said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This is my first time posting on this forum!
> Really enjoying reading all the threads so far!
> 
> Was wondering if someone would be able to help me with this knife.
> Want to find out what it is to see if it is worth restoring.
> 
> Look forward to finding out what it is!
> 
> Cheers,



&#38306;&#33738;&#27700; &#35641;&#35069; &#26412;&#21106;&#36796; (Seki-kikusui kinsei hon-warikomi)
There's a small company named "&#33738;&#27700;&#20995;&#29289;" (kikusui hamono) in Seki, so I guess it's their product, though the company is more famous for outdoor and diving knives.
I'm not sure either but maybe you should try and find how it cuts. It might be inexpensive but that doesn't mean it's useless...


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## Mortnate

no_one_just_Roy said:


> hi everyone, just another nameless japanese lurker here.
> 
> 
> So... it reads &#30331;&#37682; &#24544;&#38596;&#20316; (touroku Tadao(?) saku/ Registered (made) by Tadao)
> 
> I'm not familier with that name so I had to look up for it.
> And it looks like the knife is a cheaper side, baseline quality, soft iron / carbon steel (SK-5 steel?) forged one.
> I couldn't find the details on who made it, but seems like it's by some blacksmith in Tsubame Sanjo area, Niigata prefecture.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the information on the mystery knives.
> 
> I own a Tanaka 270mm gyuto. Really like the style of kanji he engraves. It's noticeably larger than other makers.
> 
> 
> Was contemplating getting a yanagiba from Tanaka, but not sure how the large kanji would react to the shinogi line moving up the table of the blade from sharpening. The kanji might intersect the shinogi line. Guessing mostly a cosmetic concern, losing part of the kanji, plus this would take a while before becoming an issue.


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## denfetafrukten

So i've been trying to decode the kanji on one of my knives, and this is what i've gathered so far.
I'm fairly certain that the "Yasui ? Hagane" part means Yasuki Speciality Steel.

The first two kanji i have no idea about, same with the very last one. Any help?


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## no_one_just_Roy

denfetafrukten said:


> So i've been trying to decode the kanji on one of my knives, and this is what i've gathered so far.
> I'm fairly certain that the "Yasui ? Hagane" part means Yasuki Speciality Steel.
> 
> The first two kanji i have no idea about, same with the very last one. Any help?



"&#23433;&#26469;&#37628;" is indeed yasu-ki hagane, the name of the speciality steel by Hitachi Metals ltd.. Originally it came from Yasugi (&#23433;&#26469; - same kanji as you see), name of a small city in Shimane Prefecture, but the name of the steel is "Yasuki" - perhaps they wanted it to be clear that while it is originated from the traditional tama-hagane steel, the steel they make is not by the traditional method and high-tech involved.
(By the way, basically you need a following kana to read &#23433; as 'yasu-i' (&#23433;&#12356 )

But the following is rather weird. It indeed is "&#38738;&#37628;" and it means "blue steel" but the first character is in older writing "&#38737;" which has been officially obsolete in Japan since 1949. And I don't think the blue paper steel was available back then.
Also, I don't see any good reason to stamp "yasuki steel" when you clearly state it is blue steel, one of major Yasuki steel lineup. It's totally redundant.
"&#20837;" (iri) means ... well, "include" "contain" "enter" or things like that. And this too is kind of strange (you cannot simply blend steels like pancake mix...)
So... I don't think it's made (or at least stamped) in Japan. China or Korea it might be? Come to think of it, the first 2 letters may be hangul or some other characters instead of kanji, though they are indecipherable in the picture.


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## denfetafrukten

That would actually make sense, it's a cheap no-name knife that had some serious grind issues when i got it. A fun little project that i use for testing different stuff on. I wouldn't be suprised if it was made outside of japan.

Thanks alot for the help Roy!


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## mckemaus

The first two characters look like &#25163;&#20316;. 

&#25163;&#20316;&#12426; (edzukuri) means hand made.


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## JBroida

mckemaus said:


> The first two characters look like &#25163;&#20316;.
> 
> &#25163;&#20316;&#12426; (edzukuri) means hand made.



read as tezukuri in japanese


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## cheflarge

WOW, what a awesome, informative thread!!! Thanks to all!!! :thumbsup:


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## denfetafrukten

I have three knives bought from different resellers at different times that all have the same box.
So i started trying to translate the Kanji and this is what i got so far. Anyone wants to help with the other characters?


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## mill

denfetafrukten said:


> I have three knives bought from different resellers at different times that all have the same box.
> So i started trying to translate the Kanji and this is what i got so far. Anyone wants to help with the other characters?



I'm going to say, in English, Premium Cooking Knife or High Quality Cooking Knife.


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## Fritzkrieg

Can I have a little help with this one? I am pretty sure the top characters are Silver-3, and then there is maybe something about Sakai below? 
Thank you in advance!


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## cclin

Silver 3, made by Sakai Yusuke


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## Fritzkrieg

cclin said:


> Silver 3, made by Sakai Yusuke



Great, thanks again!


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## stagiaire

I have no idea what this could be, would love some kind of assistance!


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## no_one_just_Roy

denfetafrukten said:


> I have three knives bought from different resellers at different times that all have the same box.
> So i started trying to translate the Kanji and this is what i got so far. Anyone wants to help with the other characters?



&#29305;&#35069; &#39640;&#32026; &#24481;&#26009;&#29702;&#24214;&#19969;
&#39640;&#32026; &#25171;&#20995;&#29289; (smaller red characters on the side)

&#12300;&#24481;&#26009;&#29702;&#12301; (o ryou ri) 
Though the first kanji &#12300;&#24481;&#12301; has its own meaning but it's just a honorific prefix here. 
The word &#12300;&#26009;&#29702;&#12301; &#65288;ryo-ri) means "cooking" and hocho is basically "kitchen knife" so it's sort of redundant here and most likely it's just here for traditional writing, though there are a few hocho's which aren't for cooking (like tatami-bocho, kawa (leather) bocho, etc.)

&#12300;&#39640;&#32026;&#12301; (kou kyuu)
Roughly translate as "high" "grade/class". It's simple.

&#12300;&#25171;&#20995;&#29289;&#12301; (uchi ha mono)
Most likely it's "forged blade" (instead of "stock and removal" method perhaps?) It is not a very common vocabulary though.

There is not really much useful information you can find on the box, if I say.


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## bennypapa

Wow, what a great thread. Thanks all!


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## Keith Sinclair

All I know is I like it carved in with small chisels. Knocked off a handle found carved Kanji on the tang. Have put on a new handle. Asked the lady next door who is Japanese national what it was, she could not help me. She has been able to help me with other translations.

Thanks for this informative thread


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## evilgregg

So, this is probably where i should have started maybe...

Anyway, i picked up this knife because i couldn't bear to see it languish in a goodwill. it was in a lot of knives and this was the one that spoke to me, unfortunately it spoke in Japanese, and I don't understand what it said. 

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/31714-Identify-an-old-Yanagiba

any help in identifying it would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## freedom188

Thanks for the info


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## QCDawg

I would love a lesson from the cognoscenti.. on why some makers chisel, some etch..someengrave and some makers just paint it on? I realize the expense must be different for each method... but do some steels "accept certain methods" better? I love Hattori's VG-10 forum knives, but find the logo and markings "cheap".. seemingly, for a fairly expensive knife.


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## mets

Interesting post. I have been learning Japanese and can read Hiragana and Katakana. But there are just so many Kanji to learn! Would be nice to know what was actually written on my knife though...


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## karif

karif said:


> Any help with this yanagi? Can get some .better shots if need be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.


 Made a quick sketch of this kanji, it's hard to get clear pics since its hand chiseled and been thinned a few times





Sorry for my disrespectful attempt at writing kanji. :surrendar:


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## JBroida

the picture is a bit easier than the drawing, but it looks like Kiya Sadakuni...not 100% sure, but kiya is written very poorly, and sadakuni is engraved over a stamp (like the &#19978; from &#19978;&#20316... also, its not a common name, so it might have been a persons name (maybe a foreign visitor or something)... the engraving seems to have been poorly done though


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## XooMG

I struggle with the first in the pic, because I am not very familiar with many shops. Right now my first reading, as I posted in PM, is X&#23627;&#30495;(or mayybe &#35998; as Jon suggests) (&#19978&#22283;. Spacing and impression suggests the &#19978; was a stamped afterthought.


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## LucasFur

Can anybody help me out with this one? 
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMTk5/z/FgQAAOSw4A5Y1a45/$_27.JPG


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## LucasFur




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## JBroida

a clearer picture would help me out on this


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## eyeDUpon

I recently purchased a cheap piece of metal which looked like an unfinished blade. Thought of just re-profiling it to make a kitchen knife of sorts.

I gave it a vinegar bath for a couple days to get the heavy build up of rust off and it uncovered a useful looking blade with a quenched cutting edge (darker than the rest of the metal on the blade).

While getting the rest of the gunk off with steel wool, I chanced upon a series of what seem to be Kanji symbols engraved / stamped into the side of the blade.

Wondering if anyone has any idea 1) what type of blade this might have been or was meant to be? and 2)what the kanji engraving/stamping means. 
I vaguely can make out two characters ' &#22825;&#24179; ' which is translates to the Tenpyo / Tenhei, a Japanese Era (my best guess).




Rusty Blade link - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rPu4SUNs-X8_PMGev9ZcaZqXEpDQLuIE/view?usp=sharing



Vinegered Blade link - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1013jfk71Bu8s97_T2MaCNzsOp0fdX4Mu/view?usp=sharing



Cleaned Up Blade link - https://drive.google.com/file/d/12ATZN9GnfjAcV4MAGdn9492oKs2t3Jm6/view?usp=sharing



Kanji on Blade link - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wECSrheFpqmxGUxWLzHLUiVwvvTLFgBV/view?usp=sharing



Reverse of Kanji link - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gzQwbAwfU1oIDqXJ0BkuRiXhnc66idiH/view?usp=sharing



Thank you if anyone has any idea / leads.


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## no_one_just_Roy

"&#30331;&#37682;" (registered) in Pre-WW2 right-to-left style. It could be just a "style" on a post-war product, though.
I can't really read the 4th kanji but suppose it's "&#27491;" and it's the last one, "&#22825;&#24179;&#24120;&#27491;" but I couldn't find any matching trademark with that; the trademark "&#24120;&#27491;"(tsunemasa) by Yamada Hamono Tokyo co, ltd. is registered in 1972 but expired recently (has long been out of business perhaps?). Maybe my guess wasn't good on this or maybe the "trademark" was expired long before the online search system. No clue about this, frankly.

Also, for a kitchen knife the stamp is weirdly placed. For katana or other weapon it's quite unnatural not to have a hole, and a real weapon for the army don't really need a registered trademark. A broken soba-kiri, maguro-bocho or other large special purpose knife, or maybe some kind of carpentry/farm tool?

Anyway, it is indeed a unique and mystery find, but at least not a 1200-year-old super valuable rare blade or anything I guess.


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## woodworkcan

I have a general question concerning the "&#30331;&#37682;" (registered) markings. I find this on many knives and chisels. Sometimes, it is even the only Kanji on the blade. 
What does it mean...registered to what; a maker's guilde, association, etc? Would it be an equivalent to our ®?


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## DanDan

Anyone got an ID on this? Larger versions here. Just checking if it's the generic I thought it was originally.


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## Xenif

Hokiyama Hamono , thats their mark I believe


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## eyeDUpon

Thank you so much Roy. Very detailed information. Was not expecting it to be a 1200 year old blade.. but appreciate the input and suggestions.. it has a kind of a double edge sharpened at the end, sort of bayonettey, but not sure if that was just the previous owners' personalized touch or if they came like that. I guess i'll not know till I know.

Thank you again Roy.

Regards!

Hope to post pictures up when I am done restoring it some.


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## woodworkcan

These characters: &#21029;&#35069; (Betsu-sei) would mean "specially made".
What does that mean in the context of having it on a kitchen knife?

The only hint I could think of; the fact that the knife itself is completely made out of high carbon steel and differently tempered (honyaki?), I guess those are made on special order?

Please let me know what you think.


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## JBroida

or that it just sounds nice as a marketing thing


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## woodworkcan

It does sound like that.
We could put it in the same category as &#26368;&#19978; - "the best" then


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## Brontes

*I need some help interpreting Kanji.*
I purchased this knife a while back and am curious about the make and such. 300mm stainless clad Gyuto.


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## Xenif

Brontes said:


> *I need some help interpreting Kanji.*
> I purchased this knife a while back and am curious about the make and such. 300mm stainless clad Gyuto.


Thats a Hiromoto AS, very nice knife btw, love the profile. The blacksmith is now retired so there will be no more. The Kanji says Tenmi-Jyuraku


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## Brontes

Xenif, 
Thank you. From the feel and balance of the knife I could tell the craftsmanship.


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## DitmasPork

Wonderful post, thank you! When I lived in San Francisco I worked with an Asian Art Dealer, who introduced me to the different types of Japanese and Chinese writing systemsall with distinctive qualities.

Since "kanji" is derived from Chinese charactersliteral translation is "Han characters." I'd been thinking it would be cool to someday have a custom gyuto inscribed with "seal script," the old form of Chinese characters from the Bronze Agea time when smelting of metal alloys was first being developed. The look of "seal script" is blunt, crude, naivequite wonderful. Example below.








Cutty Sharp said:


> I take it that only a few members here know more than a few Japanese words - _sushi, sashimi, tsunami_ and the inevitable knife stuff like _nakiri, kasumi, sujihiki_ etc. In fact you probably know more knife words than other words in Japanese! Anyway, despite spending over 2 years in Japan I'm not really that different as I used English at home and work, and it was also more than 10 years ago. I know a bit of Nihon-go, but would like to learn a bit more - especially knife-related these days - and so was wondering if anyone could contribute to a thread on how to decipher a bit of what those etchings on our knives say? (Or stones...? and so on.) Maybe this kind of stuff hasn't been posted much before and could be useful.
> :sumo:
> 
> First of all, I can contribute this: I'm not sure how many people are actually aware that Japanese traditionally uses 3 different scripts, of which kanji is just one. Sometimes people post things like, 'I can't read kanji.' However, I'm not completely sure if this means that they can read the 2 other main scripts, hiragana and katakana, or not. Probably not, I'd guess.
> 
> They're not that tough to tell apart, with a little practice, and they have different roles. Kanji is the most complex-looking one, Chinese characters that began to be used in Japan a couple thousand years ago, for example: &#28450;&#23383; (kanji), &#26085;&#26412; (Japan), &#26481;&#20140; (Tokyo), &#22586;&#24066; (Sakai), &#37325;&#25151; (Shigefusa). They're terribly complex and can mean different things, with many/most characters having more than 1 pronunciation, I believe. I only know a few of these - and for good reason as it's an absolute mess. Unfortunately, these are what we usually find on knives, they give the maker's name, and so I try to recognise them a bit.
> 
> Hiragana is the best-looking script, I think. It's less complex than kanji and is kind of loopy: &#12402;&#12425;&#12364;&#12394; (hiragana), &#12362;&#12373;&#12363; (Osaka), &#12399;&#12418;&#12398; (hamono). It's generally used phonetically, which makes it way easier to learn, with each character usually representing one Japanese 'sound', such as &#12402; (hi) &#12425; (ra) &#12364; (ga) &#12394; (na). Hiragana's used to represent hard kanji and for grammar, etc. You don't really see it on knives, though.
> 
> Then there's katakana, the simplest-looking script; straighter lines than hiragana. It's basically always phonetic and matches the Japanese sounds as hiragana usually does too: &#12490;&#12452;&#12501; (knife or 'na-i-fu'), &#12461;&#12483;&#12481;&#12455;&#12531; (kitchen or 'kii-chi-n'). This is the script I learned first as most words recently imported into the Japanese language are written in katakana. Very helpful when doing grocery shopping and reading labels, for example, even if the Japan-ised version of a word is a bit different. (Canned tuna, I remember, isn't called 'tuna' in Japanese but &#12471;&#12540;&#12481;&#12461;&#12531; or 'shiichikin' - 'sea chicken' - which I always thought was hilarious.)
> :chicksign:
> 
> (Incidentally, romanji - our roman alphabet - is used quite a lot in Japan. Indo-Arabic numerals - 1,2,3... - are probably more common than their kanji equivalents.)
> 
> 
> Here's some useful kanji as an example: &#30333; is white and &#38738; is blue, while &#19968; is 1 and &#20108; is 2, and so if you see &#30333; and &#20108; you can pretty much be sure a knife is shirogami #2. With katakana you might see &#12473;&#12454;&#12455;&#12540;&#12487;&#12531; which is pronounced as 'sue-de-n' and so you know you've got Swedish steel. Or you might see a kanji/katakana combo like &#38738;&#32025;&#12473;&#12540;&#12497;&#12540; &#37628; which contains the 'blue' kanji and also the katakana &#12473;&#12540;&#12497;&#12540; or 'suu-paa', and so you know you're got Aogami Super steel.
> 
> Hope this is interesting/useful. Please post if you have something to add.


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## KenHash

Al mar uses a chouin &#24427;&#21360;&#12288;(aka chopmark) on all their outdoor and culinary knives.
But use of seal script for anything other than a seal hasn't been around for thousands of years.
Japanese knife makers seem to follow the established traditional method of marking their blades.





There is one outdoor knife maker out of China that uses Seal Script loosely, not in a seal. But as I can't read it I can't look them up.

Might be "cool" but that's really about it. Sort of like if western knifemakers marked their blades in Latin.


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## Masatomo

Hello everyone!

I'm going to take part in this thread with my own knives, which I bought in Japan a few years back. I think they're made by the same maker, both because the kanji looks the same (although one is printed and the other one is chiseled) and because they have the same little design (that little logo that resembles the "TA" kanji with the four squares).

Anyone can help me identify who made these and whatever extra info can be obtained with those

Thanks!













IMG_20190826_121820



__ Masatomo
__ Aug 26, 2019



Got this for vegetables

















IMG_20190826_121833



__ Masatomo
__ Aug 26, 2019



Bought this one to use with everything else


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## ojisan

It's 菊一文字 (Kikuichimonji) . There are several Kikuichimonji (e.g. Kikuichimonji-Norimune) brands in Japan. I think yours are one in Sanjo, Kyoto (there is another Kikuichimonji in Nagasaki sharing the same root, but they don't have "registered" (登録) marks). Kikuichimonji is a well known brand of samurai swords and they used to be a sword smiths.

Here's a link to the official site. http://www.kikuichimonji.com

The logo came from a (Japanese-style) bridle bit, like this https://ec.hirosekaki.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=178


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## Masatomo

ojisan said:


> It's 菊一文字 (Kikuichimonji) . There are several Kikuichimonji (e.g. Kikuichimonji-Norimune) brands in Japan.



It's definitely them! Really appreciate your help! It was very important to me that they were produced in Kyoto because I was born there.

Thanks again!


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## ojisan

Masatomo said:


> It's definitely them! Really appreciate your help! It was very important to me that they were produced in Kyoto because I was born there.
> 
> Thanks again!



Note that their knives are most likely made in Sakai and other areas. I don't think they forge knives themselves now.


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## Masatomo

Oh, I see.. well, fair enough. I'll concentrate on the fact that I bought it in the same shop that I've been seeing since when I was a kid


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## Ochazuke

removed from unintended thread.


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