# A few questions before I put myself in pain. Aritsugu A-Type



## RR13 (Feb 4, 2013)

Some of you might of seen in a recent thread of mine, I am looking for a new 240 gyuto workhorse. I'm pretty set on an A-Type, and I've decided to just suck it up and put myself through the torture of getting the initial bevel set up. I'm wondering if anyone can comment on the edge that Takeshi Aoki at AframesTokyo sends it with. I know there is NOOOOO WAY I want one sharpened by Aritsugu from what I have read. I emailed him about the knife and edge, and he had this to say:



> I usually ask to Aritsugu sending me all my stock for un-sharpened condition, and I sharpen them before shipping, so if you do not want me to sharpen it, I can ship it without sharpening the blade.
> 
> Aritsugu usually put on the initial bevel 90/10 like right hand set single bevel, and I have never measure it, but it should be around 30 degree.
> 
> ...



My question is, has anyone received an A-Type from Aoki that he has sharpened, and how was it? I keep reading how they come with no edge at all, and am prepared for that. Any advice on if I should have him send it unsharpened or let him grind away a little? I'll be looking to put a 90/10 right hand bevel on it.


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## RR13 (Feb 4, 2013)

Ohh and to add, I know that even with the edge that he sends it with, I'll be doing some thinning. I'm not looking for it to be ready to go OOTB.


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## Benuser (Feb 4, 2013)

Couldn't you ask him to put a 15 degree bevel on it, and just deburr at 10?? So, whatever you want, a lot of the work will have been done.


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## RR13 (Feb 4, 2013)

> Couldn't you ask him to put a 15 degree bevel on it, and just deburr at 10??



I will probably ask him, but I just wanted to see if anyone has had any experience with his sharpened A-Types. All the horror stories have me spooked!


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## tk59 (Feb 4, 2013)

No idea about his sharpening prowess. I'd do it myself, regardless. Good to see someone out there still appreciates the A-type. I have a lot of knives and mine is still top 5, easy.


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## RR13 (Feb 4, 2013)

> Good to see someone out there still appreciates the A-type



It just seems to be the perfect workhorse knife for me. Weight, thickness, profile, and of course the famed edge retention. This will be my all round gyuto at work, whether I'm splitting lobster tails or cutting chiffonade basil. 

This also will be a test of my whetstone skills! I've thinned knives a bit, and of course sharpen my own knives, but I've never had to set up bevels like I'm assuming I'm going to have to do with an A-Type. I'm looking at it as a challenge, and a learning experience, and I'm sure I'll come out of it more skilled... hopefully. I'm thinking a XXC diamond plate, 500 Beston, 1000 and 6000 Imanishi should do it... again, hopefully!


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## wsfarrell (Feb 4, 2013)

Maybe everybody's already seen this, but here's a youtube vid of Jon Broida working on a A-Type:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7YWxOb33O0


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## RR13 (Feb 5, 2013)

I did see that. What I thought the video was missing was the actual time he spent grinding on each stone. :bigeek: Nice vid though.


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## labor of love (Feb 5, 2013)

can i ask what is it about aritsugu a types that make them worth all the thinning trouble? is it the steel used?


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## James (Feb 5, 2013)

I believe it's a combination of the steel and the amount of it that needs to be removed to make it perform well.


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## wsfarrell (Feb 5, 2013)

The late KC Ma had an A-Type that he put a 99/1 bevel on. Another experienced sharpener called it "easily the sharpest knife I've ever encountered." When asked about steering, KC said

steering is really not a knife related question, it's a knife skill issue. knives don't steer, if you want it to go straight, it'll go straight. point in case... usuba have bigger bevel than any gyuto and it cuts down straight too :biggrin:

May he rest in peace.


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## Blobby (Feb 5, 2013)

wsfarrell said:


> .......steering is really not a knife related question, it's a knife skill issue.



It's like saying my car hasn't got a steering issue provided I use my skills through have the wheel at 3 O'clock all the time. 



wsfarrell said:


> .......knives don't steer, if you want it to go straight, it'll go straight......



As a lefty having to use right handed bread knives all my life I can assure you that is not the case. My slices of bread never really look good. There's a reason with handed knives that one side of the knife's flat (or convave as is the case with an usuba) and the other side isn't. 



wsfarrell said:


> ......usuba have bigger bevel than any gyuto and it cuts down straight too......



Mine doesn't!


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## stevenStefano (Feb 5, 2013)

I have used knives that steer and it's pretty easy to get used to them after a little while. As for the A-Type, I used one that belonged to a fellow forum member a while ago that had a lot of work put into it and it was awesome, one of the 2 or 3 best knives I've ever used. The edge retention was insane and the weight and profile are both great


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## Lefty (Feb 5, 2013)

And you're a lefty... 

HEY MEMBER WITH THE LEFT-HANDED A-TYPE...can I try too?


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## labor of love (Feb 5, 2013)

Lefty said:


> And you're a lefty...
> 
> HEY MEMBER WITH THE LEFT-HANDED A-TYPE...can I try too?



+1. also a lefty, ive been uncertain if they would work for me. sounds like it could. i might talk to aframes about this...


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## mhlee (Feb 5, 2013)

I, too, was thinking of KC when I read this thread.


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## labor of love (Feb 5, 2013)

so aframes told me their a type wa gyutos have a 60/40 grind, for those interested.


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## stevenStefano (Feb 5, 2013)

I shall leave it to the mystery member to reveal themselves. I thought a few times about getting an A-Type myself because they are actually pretty cheap, but I'm basically working 6 days a week now and I'd never have a chance to do the work needed and I guess you should probably add the cost of a new diamond plate onto the price.


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## RR13 (Feb 5, 2013)

> so aframes told me their a type wa gyutos have a 60/40 grind, for those interested.



That's interesting. Ordered mine from aframes today. I'll post some pics when it arrives.


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## RR13 (Feb 11, 2013)

Received my A-Type 240 Gyuto from aframestokyo yesterday. Four days from Hawaii to Florida, not bad. Here's a couple of pics on how it arrived out of the box, sharpened by Takeshi Aoki at aframes. In an earlier email, he said he sharpens them at 90/10, 30 degree right hand bevel. I'm not good with guessing degree's, but I think the A-Type will be getting a little steeper edge in the near future. I'm pretty happy with what he sent me though. The 240 is thinner than I thought it would be, and I'm not going to have to remove as much material as anticipated. I've read the horror stories about how bulky the are, but I think that mainly applies to the 270's. BTW, it came sharp enough to shave my arm hair, and push cut paper. I'll put it through some food tomorrow, just to see how it wedges and all with this bevel.


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## franzb69 (Feb 11, 2013)

lefty here too. lefty love on here! lol.


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## Rottman (Feb 11, 2013)

Lefty said:


> And you're a lefty...
> 
> HEY MEMBER WITH THE LEFT-HANDED A-TYPE...can I try too?



Sure you can, shoot me a pm...


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## rdm_magic (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm a little confused here, can someone explain to me what the problem with these knives are? If they are so problematic, why get one?


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## RR13 (Feb 11, 2013)

> I'm a little confused here, can someone explain to me what the problem with these knives are? If they are so problematic, why get one?



The steel used on the A-Types is known to be very tough, without being to hard or brittle. HRC around 59-60. This gives an edge this is extremely resilient, chip resistant, with incredible edge retention. The problem is they usually come unsharpened, with a lot of thinning needed, and are stupid hard to grind... as I'm about to find out. :biggrin:


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## stevenStefano (Feb 11, 2013)

Yes the edge retention of these knives is legendary. I believe Dave doesn't accept these for thinning any more, which should give you an idea if the difficulty involved


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## rdm_magic (Feb 11, 2013)

If they come unsharpened, whats all the stuff I'm hearing about them being extremely asymmetric?


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## stevenStefano (Feb 11, 2013)

rdm_magic said:


> If they come unsharpened, whats all the stuff I'm hearing about them being extremely asymmetric?



The left side of the knife is pretty flat I believe, so lefty A-Types are very rare. Brandon at FF modded his to a lefty version, here's a few pictures. Perhaps other members who own them could add their views because I used one for a couple of months and I didn't do any of the thinning or modding


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## labor of love (Feb 11, 2013)

the grind could possibly be asymetric. thats the problem for lefties


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## rdm_magic (Feb 11, 2013)

So, for a leftie what would be involved in readjusting one of these?

Regrinding the bevel, reversing the flat and convex side, along with masses of thinning?


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## pitonboy (Feb 11, 2013)

I recently had an A-type that I heavily worked on. I first tried to do it by hand and could get it slightly thinner and sharper, but it wasn't great. Next, I took it to someone who is a vendor here and we reground it completely; it is now actually a great knife with all those quauities of edge retention and toughness while being a good to great cutter. There is no way I could have done this by hand, so a knife grinder is mandatory


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## rdm_magic (Feb 11, 2013)

How long and what stone?


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## pitonboy (Feb 11, 2013)

Belt grinder. One hour.


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## tk59 (Feb 11, 2013)

The grind is asymmetric. Nearly flat on the left side. Hardness was tested by Rottman: 58 hrc. It's not as tough to grind as you might think. I prob put a full day or two into mine on a 1k SS. I'm sure it would have been a lot less if I'd used a decent coarse stone. It is a fantastic cutter, if I do say so myself. The steel is tough, holds onto a wire edge like it's nobody's business but the edge it does take feels super keen and aggressive. I love that edge. The 270 is a monster. Totally different than the 240 which is a fairly nice knife OOTB barring factory sharpening which is sharp but jacked up in every other way imaginable.


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## Miles (Feb 11, 2013)

I did a heavy thinning job on a 270 for a friend. He's a lefty so I thinned and ground the inside/left face. It worked quite well, improving the performance significantly. Without a belt sander, it would have been a monsterously nasty job.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 11, 2013)

Looks like Takeshi gave a good grind to your blade,nothing wrong wt. a 90/10 if you are rt. handed.Never had an A- Aritsugu,but have had J-Gyuto pretty much single bevel OOTB.You might thin the 30% angle,this can be done gradually wt. each sharpening.No need major surgery all at once.

I would deff. stay with the almost SB grind of the blade.For the backside not too much on the stones,more just removing the burr at a very low angle.Over time you will find it easy to sharpen(just one side).SB Gyuto are great for peeling just about anything.If using as a workhorse blade(splitting Lobsters etc.)you prob should put a miro-bevel on the rt. side.:knife:


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## RR13 (Feb 11, 2013)

Thank for the advice saltydog. The more I look at it the more I think that it doesn't really need that much. I was initially going to thin and convex the right side, with just a very small angle on the left side, pretty much keeping a single bevel. I don't think i"ll go crazy with it now, just thin it and get that right side angle down a bit. A micro bevel too prob.


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## RR13 (Feb 11, 2013)

> Totally different than the 240 which is a fairly nice knife OOTB barring factory sharpening which is sharp but jacked up in every other way imaginable.



I think this applies to the sharpening job straight from Aritsugu. Takeshi at aframes gets them unsharpened from Aritsugu and puts the edge on them when one gets ordered, before he ships them. From what I've seen the job he did on mine looks significantly better than the jacked up ones from Aritsugu.


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## rdm_magic (Feb 11, 2013)

What kind of work do you think your knife will need RR? Any big tasks or just fine tuning?


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## RR13 (Feb 11, 2013)

> What kind of work do you think your knife will need RR? Any big tasks or just fine tuning?



Rdm, I just made a Thai Jungle Curry using the A-Type, so I could go through a variety of product to test out the knife out of the box. I minced shallot, garlic, ginger, galangal, lemongrass, chiles. Trimmed and cut up a pork shoulder. Diced eggplant, batonnet carrot, and chiffonade some basil. I can say the bevel aframes put on it is completely useable, but it's potential isn't there yet. I expected it to wedge a bit, especially with the carrots, but it wasn't too bad. It's light and nimble, even for not being in the laser category, but it's perfect for what I was looking for.

I'm just going to thin down that high right side bevel a bit, try to get it to about 12-15 degrees. I'm hoping a Beston 500 will handle it, but I've got a ******** *** 60 grit stone if it gives me any crap!


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## tk59 (Feb 11, 2013)

Actually, this reminds me. A while back, I compared my A-type to a much older one and a new one. The new one was MUCH thinner than mine or the older one. IIRC, prob 30% thinner. I'm not sure I'd grind a whole lot off the newer ones like I have with the oldies.


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## orange (Mar 8, 2013)

I got my 270 gyuto years ago from the aframes and don't know the thickness difference between 240 and 270.
It took long time for me to thin it and to put convex grind on the right side. 
(the steel of it was very sticky on my stones until I removed factory grind lines on the suface of the blade). 
Now it performs really great - just a little shy of Shige laser but it is a real tank.
I hope you still enjoy your knife. 




RR13 said:


> Received my A-Type 240 Gyuto from aframestokyo yesterday. Four days from Hawaii to Florida, not bad. Here's a couple of pics on how it arrived out of the box, sharpened by Takeshi Aoki at aframes. In an earlier email, he said he sharpens them at 90/10, 30 degree right hand bevel. I'm not good with guessing degree's, but I think the A-Type will be getting a little steeper edge in the near future. I'm pretty happy with what he sent me though. The 240 is thinner than I thought it would be, and I'm not going to have to remove as much material as anticipated. I've read the horror stories about how bulky the are, but I think that mainly applies to the 270's. BTW, it came sharp enough to shave my arm hair, and push cut paper. I'll put it through some food tomorrow, just to see how it wedges and all with this bevel.


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## labor of love (Mar 10, 2013)

so the 270s are definitely way thicker than 240s? damn.


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## Miles (Mar 10, 2013)

Quite a bit thicker. The 270 feels like a bulldozer compared to the 240. It's hard to beat that retention though.


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