# Banning "pointed" kitchen knives in UK?



## chiffonodd (Sep 24, 2019)

Haven't posted in a minute but figured this might bear some discussion from our UK members.

*Ban sales of pointed kitchen knives as there is no reason for them in modern world, says Church of England *

*https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...d-kitchen-knives-no-reason-modern-world-says/*


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 24, 2019)

Interesting standpoint. I'm guessing those in the church suggesting this don't spend much time in the kitchen themselves. I'd like to see them segment a grapefruit without a point.


----------



## Qapla' (Sep 24, 2019)

<British accent> No worries mate. That's why they make takohiki's and Hong-Kong-style cleavers!

More seriously though, we all know that one's rulers are the only ones responsible with knives. Mere peasants aren't suited for them, innit. </British accent>
https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...Camilla-knife-Australia-tour-Duchess-Cornwall


----------



## mise_en_place (Sep 24, 2019)

chiffonodd said:


> Ban sales of pointed kitchen knives as there is no reason for them in* modern world, *says Church of England
> 
> *https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...d-kitchen-knives-no-reason-modern-world-says/*



With Brexit coming, England may not be part of the modern world much longer


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 24, 2019)

Qapla' said:


> <British accent> No worries mate. That's why they make takohiki's and Hong-Kong-style cleavers!
> 
> More seriously though, we all know that one's rulers are the only ones responsible with knives. Mere peasants aren't suited for them, innit. </British accent>
> https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...Camilla-knife-Australia-tour-Duchess-Cornwall


You have a point


----------



## parbaked (Sep 24, 2019)

What's the point?
I grew up in Hong Kong in the 1970's when it was a British Crown Colony.
The ubiquitous Chinese cleaver was the weapon of choice for everything from triad gang crime to domestic violence.
No point required...


----------



## chiffonodd (Sep 24, 2019)

Qapla' said:


> <British accent> No worries mate. That's why they make takohiki's and Hong-Kong-style cleavers!
> 
> More seriously though, we all know that one's rulers are the only ones responsible with knives. Mere peasants aren't suited for them, innit. </British accent>
> https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...Camilla-knife-Australia-tour-Duchess-Cornwall



LOL


----------



## Michi (Sep 24, 2019)

I'm so glad that we have the Church of England looking after our collective wellbeing. This is most expert advice that I will gladly take. I absolutely agree that knives with pointed tips exist only to pick up food, which is a practice that has been made obsolete long ago by the invention of the fork.

Coming up next: how to stop a hurricane by nuking it…


----------



## kayman67 (Sep 24, 2019)

parbaked said:


> What's the point?
> I grew up in the in Hong Kong, a British Crown Colony, in the 1970's.
> The ubiquitous Chinese cleaver was the weapon of choice for everything from triad gang crime to domestic violence.
> No point required...



Well, a judge saw that most people in UK are stabbed in domestic violence related attacks and got the idea that if there is no pointed knife in the house, there would be no stabbing and went further advocating for this ban.

UK also has a huge problem with knives in general. New rules recently raised a lot of debate. 

Problem is, almost anything can be a weapon when you need one badly.


----------



## Michi (Sep 24, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> Well, a judge saw that most people in UK are stabbed in domestic violence related attacks and got the idea that if there is no pointed knife in the house, there would be no stabbing and went further advocating for this ban.


What an awesome and deep insight. I most certainly couldn't kill anyone—no matter how hard I tried—with my 12.5 inch brisket slicer after it's been on a 1000 and 5000 stone and a strop. That's because that slicer doesn't have a pointy tip…

What a relief, he's a judge, no less. I have absolute faith in any of his other judgements.


----------



## parbaked (Sep 24, 2019)

Michi said:


> I most certainly couldn't kill anyone—no matter how hard I tried—with my 12.5 inch brisket slicer


12.5" slicer is good for portioning but not for detail work...


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 24, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> Well, a judge saw that most people in UK are stabbed in domestic violence related attacks and got the idea that if there is no pointed knife in the house, there would be no stabbing and went further advocating for this ban.
> 
> UK also has a huge problem with knives in general. New rules recently raised a lot of debate.
> 
> Problem is, almost anything can be a weapon when you need one badly.


John Wick is pretty handy with pointy pencil.


----------



## Dave Martell (Sep 24, 2019)

Moving to London to start a de-pointing service.


----------



## Michi (Sep 24, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> Moving to London to start a de-pointing service.


You had better hire some extra helping hands…


----------



## Gjackson98 (Sep 24, 2019)

I saw this yesterday, lol next up ban sharpening tools, there is no reason for knives beyond 600 grids in modern world, says whoever out of their mind


----------



## Brian Weekley (Sep 24, 2019)

Good lord ... I’m glad I’m old. I won’t have to put up with this much longer. Speaking of the Lord ... I understand he has made an exception ... you CAN take your knife collection and a few Jnats with you.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 24, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> Good lord ... I’m glad I’m old. I won’t have to put up with this much longer. Speaking of the Lord ... I understand he has made an exception ... you CAN take your knife collection and a few Jnats with you.


In that case sign me up.......


----------



## Brian Weekley (Sep 24, 2019)

Ok ... let me get this straight! The Church of England was established by Henry VIII because the Pope wouldn’t let him divorce Ann Boleyn. Once established The Church of England was perfectly good with Anne Boleyn being beheaded by a sharp knife ... albeit probably “unpointed”. Sounds a bit like the kettle calling the pot black!


----------



## CoteRotie (Sep 24, 2019)

You can have my cow sword when you pry it from my cold dead hands! If you make pointed knives, illegal only criminals will have pointed knives! 

The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if we ban them here in the US. Your average psychopathic killer will still be able to buy an AK-47, but a yanagiba with tip will be contraband.


----------



## Cbt (Sep 24, 2019)

The Church drawing attention to the really important problems in this world. Thank God for that!!!


----------



## DitmasPork (Sep 24, 2019)

Back to the future.

https://www.macknife.com/collections/original-series

These were actually the first knives I used, do view them quite nostalgically.

Yes, order a custom Tansu with a rounded nose!


----------



## Edge (Sep 24, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> Moving to London to start a de-pointing service.


Look like a real opportunity.


----------



## Edge (Sep 24, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> Ok ... let me get this straight! The Church of England was established by Henry VIII because the Pope wouldn’t let him divorce Ann Boleyn. Once established The Church of England was perfectly good with Anne Boleyn being beheaded by a sharp knife ... albeit probably “unpointed”. Sounds a bit like the kettle calling the pot black!



I remember history from all the books I’ve read, that was the cause and effect. Then old Henry and the new Church got on a roll with others H disagreed with (with a lot of help from others)


----------



## Benuser (Sep 24, 2019)

Traditional Sheffields have spear points...


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 24, 2019)

https://www.premier.org.uk/News/UK/Church-leaders-urge-government-to-ban-pointed-kitchen-knives

I thought getting rid of all the guns would keep people from killing each other? [emoji52] 

Now I see why the colonies decided to separate from the crown. The social engineering laws will never stop.

On a positive note, this will lead to an increase in the market for all sorts of Cleavers. Much more effective both in the kitchen and navigating a random dark alley. [emoji41]


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 24, 2019)

Damn...you beat me to it. I started a new thread for nothing. [emoji36][emoji35][emoji35][emoji34][emoji34][emoji34]


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 24, 2019)

My Kato Nakiri trade opportunity is looking like an inspired choice.......get it now and beat the rush.


----------



## CoteRotie (Sep 24, 2019)

Well, if they do become illegal in the UK, feel free to send them all over to this side of the pond. We'll take good care of them for you.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 24, 2019)

Adopt-a-pointy-knife scheme. I like it


----------



## Gjackson98 (Sep 24, 2019)

Humm now it all makes sense.. My shiges most be from the UK.


----------



## Xenif (Sep 24, 2019)

Axes, still legal


----------



## gman (Sep 24, 2019)

obviously the easiest way to reduce stabbing deaths is to increase access to guns


----------



## minibatataman (Sep 24, 2019)

Because we all know if the point ends didn't exist someone who has no problem stabbing someone else would simply stop being violent and you know, not pick up a screwdriver, ice pick, or just a straight up cleaver.

Either way it doesn't matter to me. I dropped both my gyuto and my petty on their tips and destroyed them within 24 hours of each other


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 24, 2019)

minibatataman said:


> I dropped both my gyuto and my petty on their tips and destroyed them within 24 hours of each other


PSA: Please don't sell this man a Raquin


----------



## crocca86 (Sep 24, 2019)

We should ban the church instead


----------



## Matus (Sep 24, 2019)

@minibatataman - are you planning to apply for UK citizenship?


----------



## Noodle Soup (Sep 24, 2019)

And how long does it take to grind a point on a round tip blade?


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 24, 2019)

Noodle Soup said:


> And how long does it take to grind a point on a round tip blade?


Please stop asking sensible questions.


----------



## kayman67 (Sep 24, 2019)

That might get you some prison years as I'm sure it's something it will be addressed. 

Not so long ago they (in UK) told people to give by free will all types of knives and axes that are or are not meeting legal requirements for carry. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...1000-knives-seized-in-week-of-knife-crackdown
Pretty much thousands of knives were given away based on amnesties.
As far as I way able to understand, collectors are also under scrutiny and some had trouble with the authorities and gave their knives away. So it sounds like a joke, but it might get really serious at some point. 
Looks like they are trying to gather as many knives as possible and make acces to knives a lot more difficult or take knives off the market entirely.

https://thefederalist.com/2018/04/13/britains-knife-control-bad-parody-gun-control/
This is a nice read. 

Now, the other side of things. While all this knife control looks a bit coo coo, I know people in UK, in London but not only and they have witnessed knives attacks, mostly involving minors. Obviously knives are not the problem here. 

Next step. I imagine they (the government or whatever) will think if people had implants and cameras and control over them 24/7, they would eradicate crime. We look, we laugh, but...


----------



## dsk (Sep 24, 2019)

make guns available at Tesco, you wont have a knife problem, duh. Then you can ban the obvious generational super vices that will lead to the decline of your nation like video games and vaping.


----------



## minibatataman (Sep 24, 2019)

Corradobrit1 said:


> PSA: Please don't sell this man a Raquin


HAHA
damn
But fair enough
I take care of my knives very well usually, the sad part is neither of them were hit while actually being in use, they were both weird accidents


----------



## Brian Weekley (Sep 24, 2019)

Been grinding the point off my 900mm Takeda gyuto for hours. Pretty close to being UK legal now.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 24, 2019)

We'll let Brian in


----------



## Beau Nidle (Sep 24, 2019)

Dave Martell said:


> Moving to London to start a de-pointing service.



Hey now, hands off my territory Dave. I was here first.


----------



## M1k3 (Sep 24, 2019)

THIS JUST IN!
CHURCH OF ENGLAND SAYS IT'S A SIN TO -NOT- EAT SILVER SKIN!!! SUGGESTS BANNING POINTY TIPS!!! ALSO, FOOD ARTISTS ARE SCURGE!!


----------



## HRC_64 (Sep 24, 2019)

chiffonodd said:


> *Ban sales of pointed kitchen knives as there is no reason for them in modern world, says Church of England */QUOTE]



Hundreds years ago the guests would stab each other over dinner.
this is EXACTLY why continental table Knives are round... 






Old news...


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 24, 2019)

Xenif said:


> Axes, still legalView attachment 61697


Then they will complain about the hacking deaths.

"Nobody NEEDS a razor sharp edge. " says Prime Minister as he is being questioned why axes are the leading cause of murders in London


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 24, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> That might get you some prison years as I'm sure it's something it will be addressed.
> 
> Not so long ago they (in UK) told people to give by free will all types of knives and axes that are or are not meeting legal requirements for carry. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...1000-knives-seized-in-week-of-knife-crackdown
> Pretty much thousands of knives were given away based on amnesties.
> ...


Knives are dumb. Better off carrying a freezer backpack with disposable ice cycles. That's when you know a man is serious about his life of crime.

My new nickname will be frosty the pointman.

Stick Freeze Frosty?....

Oh no I got it....The Cushion


----------



## ian (Sep 24, 2019)

I can’t read the whole article. Do they define ‘point’? Like, “a point is where two edges meet at less than a 50 degree angle”.

Trying to figure out whether cleavers are even allowed, and whether I would need to start rounding the heels of my knives when going on vacation there.


----------



## Dave Martell (Sep 24, 2019)

Off to make some Union Jack handled nakiris....


----------



## CiderBear (Sep 24, 2019)

I would actually buy a KU nakiri where the KU is Union Jack pattern


----------



## Brian Weekley (Sep 24, 2019)

Unintended consequences ...

Back in the day when the Brits ruled India they decided there were too many snakes. 

So they put a bounty on snakes. 

The ever industrious Indians started raising snakes to collect the bounty. 

The Brits realized they were being had so they cancelled the bounty. 

The ever industrious Indians realized that without the bounty there was no point in raising snakes. 

So ... the Indians release all the snakes they were raising. 

Unintended consequences ... it will be interesting where banning pointy knives will lead?????


----------



## Paraffin (Sep 24, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> Unintended consequences ... it will be interesting where banning pointy knives will lead?????



Next, you have to ban sporting equipment:


----------



## Brian Weekley (Sep 24, 2019)

I have a Kiwi friend who was going on about how NZ banned rifles after the Christchurch massacre. I said it’s a good thing Americans didn’t think the same after 911 ... they would have banned airplanes. He tells me now that innovative Kiwis are importing rifle parts from China to collect the buyback payment. Unintended consequences.


----------



## Qapla' (Sep 24, 2019)

Paraffin said:


> Next, you have to ban sporting equipment:
> <picture of dudes with a baseball bat>


Baseball bats? Well that's not so hard, is it? Since UK'ers do not play baseball, a baseball bat in the UK would have No Legitimate Sporting Purpose. Banning it would be trivially easy.



Brian Weekley said:


> I have a Kiwi friend who was going on about how NZ banned rifles after the Christchurch massacre. I said it’s a good thing Americans didn’t think the same after 911 ... they would have banned airplanes.


I would not overestimate most Americans in that regard. Anyone who does any real travel nowadays knows that the US treats air travel as the "assault weapon" of the First Amendment right of peaceable assembly.



Brian Weekley said:


> He tells me now that innovative Kiwis are importing rifle parts from China to collect the buyback payment. Unintended consequences.


Just like the Indians and their snakes. History does rhyme.

On the original topic, is there any real pushback in the UK against the sort of policy in the original post? Or is it a one-way slide down to total prohibitionism?


----------



## Brian Weekley (Sep 24, 2019)

On that I return to my original comment ... I’m glad I’m old!


----------



## M1k3 (Sep 24, 2019)

Brian Weekley said:


> I have a Kiwi friend who was going on about how NZ banned rifles after the Christchurch massacre. I said it’s a good thing Americans didn’t think the same after 911 ... they would have banned airplanes. He tells me now that innovative Kiwis are importing rifle parts from China to collect the buyback payment. Unintended consequences.



The Patriot Act was passed after that and Iraq was invaded...... There was a reaction......


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 25, 2019)

Qapla' said:


> Baseball bats? Well that's not so hard, is it? Since UK'ers do not play baseball, a baseball bat in the UK would have No Legitimate Sporting Purpose. Banning it would be trivially easy.
> 
> 
> I would not overestimate most Americans in that regard. Anyone who does any real travel nowadays knows that the US treats air travel as the "assault weapon" of the First Amendment right of peaceable assembly.
> ...


There was an article where a chef in europe claimed that you don't need a pointy knife to cook. He was one of those individuals who advocated knife bans.


----------



## Carl Kotte (Sep 25, 2019)

minibatataman said:


> I dropped both my gyuto and my petty on their tips and destroyed them within 24 hours of each other


Sorry to hear that you involuntarily customized them.


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 25, 2019)

I just want everyone to remember that Every time someone is murdered the government loses a tax payer which hurts their revenue.

They also lose a potential killing machin....err soldier to sacrifice on some political fabricated war effort.


----------



## Customfan (Sep 25, 2019)

Sounds like something from the Onion!

,-)


----------



## lemeneid (Sep 25, 2019)

Guess they haven’t seen Jason Bourne incapacitate people with various household items then


----------



## M1k3 (Sep 25, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> Guess they haven’t seen Jason Bourne incapacitate people with various household items then



Jackie Chan!


----------



## XooMG (Sep 25, 2019)

lemeneid said:


> Guess they haven’t seen Jason Bourne incapacitate people with various household items then


Movies are likely a large part of why various "ninja" weapons like nunchaku and blowguns are illegal in some places.


----------



## Matus (Sep 25, 2019)

Where is Monty Python when you need them ...

[can't find a proper YT link for the Spanish Inquisition, sorry]


----------



## Qapla' (Sep 25, 2019)

Matus said:


> can't find a proper YT link for the Spanish Inquisition, sorry


Why blame the Spanish when the UK is doing it to themselves?



Brian Weekley said:


> On that I return to my original comment ... I’m glad I’m old!


I thought you were Canadian eh and not UK'ish? Why would age be a factor?


----------



## Migraine (Sep 25, 2019)

Guys you know just cause there's an article about it doesn't mean it's actually happening right?


----------



## lemeneid (Sep 25, 2019)

XooMG said:


> Movies are likely a large part of why various "ninja" weapons like nunchaku and blowguns are illegal in some places.


Those are actual weapons for self defense or otherwise though. Kitchen knives on the other hand, while dangerous, are used for their right intents and purposes by 99% of the population 99% of the time.


----------



## Brian Weekley (Sep 25, 2019)

Qapla ... age means I don’t have to put up with this breeding insanity for as long as I would were I young. And trust me ... being Canadian eh! Is no protection from cockamamie UK ideas. The more ridiculous the more likely out government is to adopt the idea.


----------



## miggus (Sep 25, 2019)

Customfan said:


> Sounds like something from the Onion!
> 
> ,-)


Yes!! I looked for the joke for quite a while. Can't believe this. Sounds like something you'd want to blame the EU for.


----------



## chiffonodd (Sep 25, 2019)

miggus said:


> Yes!! I looked for the joke for quite a while. Can't believe this. Sounds like something you'd want to blame the EU for.



It's a crazy idea but I'm not sure how someone could blame the EU for this one. It's a proposal by the Church of England.


----------



## Brian Weekley (Sep 25, 2019)

This is something to be taken seriously. Just the other day I heard of a flock of pointy sharp knives marching down the street looking for things to poke and cut!

(This is my emoji for sarcasm)


----------



## DitmasPork (Sep 25, 2019)

Even knives used in prison kitchens have points on them. Considering banning pointed knives is as stupid as banning foie gras.


----------



## Brian Weekley (Sep 25, 2019)

And that was the stupidest decision of the century! Perhaps the millennia!


----------



## Customfan (Sep 25, 2019)

We should also burn any kitchen wares that don't float do to their witchcraft Properties!!! ;-) 

Did we suddenly go down a wormhole to 1498?


----------



## DitmasPork (Sep 25, 2019)

Customfan said:


> We should also burn any kitchen wares that don't float do to their witchcraft Properties!!! ;-)
> 
> Did we suddenly go down a wormhole to 1498?



Knife laws are weird. Here in NYC it's big trouble if a cop spots a deep carry clip, that's attached to a Spyderco Para3, but take no notice of a chefs knife roll that might contain a bunch of 270 gyutos.


----------



## CoteRotie (Sep 25, 2019)

DitmasPork said:


> Knife laws are weird. Here in NYC it's big trouble if a cop spots a deep carry clip, that's attached to a Spyderco Para3, but take no notice of a chefs knife roll that might contain a bunch of 270 gyutos.


It's not just knife laws, LOL. If you travel overseas you can bring back any kind of crazy experimental "medicine" for personal use (Laetril for example, totally discredited) but try to bring back some Spanish Jamon de Bellota for personal use and you're in deep trouble. Doesn't make any sense to anyone except the special interests that lobbied for the law.

I wonder if I could convince them that Spanish Jamon is an experimental treatment for say depression?


----------



## M1k3 (Sep 25, 2019)

CoteRotie said:


> It's not just knife laws, LOL. If you travel overseas you can bring back any kind of crazy experimental "medicine" for personal use (Laetril for example, totally discredited) but try to bring back some Spanish Jamon de Bellota for personal use and you're in deep trouble. Doesn't make any sense to anyone except the special interests that lobbied for the law.
> 
> I wonder if I could convince them that Spanish Jamon is an experimental treatment for say depression?



"I am sad.

*Eats Spanish Jamon de Bellota*

I am happy."


Sounds legit to me.


----------



## Paraffin (Sep 25, 2019)

CoteRotie said:


> I wonder if I could convince them that Spanish Jamon is an experimental treatment for say depression?



Get it registered as an emotional support pig, deceased. They're letting everything from peacocks to miniature horses on planes now, so I'm sure that will work.


----------



## ian (Sep 25, 2019)

DitmasPork said:


> Knife laws are weird. Here in NYC it's big trouble if a cop spots a deep carry clip, that's attached to a Spyderco Para3, but take no notice of a chefs knife roll that might contain a bunch of 270 gyutos.



This doesn’t seem weird to me at all. Who’s statistically more likely to stab you, the guy with the deep carry clip or the guy with the knife roll? Both events are unlikely, but I’d argue that the first is much more likely than the second.


----------



## DitmasPork (Sep 25, 2019)

ian said:


> This doesn’t seem weird to me at all. Who’s statistically more likely to stab you, the guy with the deep carry clip or the guy with the knife roll? Both events are unlikely, but I’s argue that the first is much more likely than the second.



Yeah, good point. I'm just bitter 'cause I want a Spyderco for work where I open a lot of boxes, etc.


----------



## Qapla' (Sep 25, 2019)

ian said:


> This doesn’t seem weird to me at all. Who’s statistically more likely to stab you, the guy with the deep carry clip or the guy with the knife roll? Both events are unlikely, but I’s argue that the first is much more likely than the second.


And you'd be wrong.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ice-reveal-haul-200-weapons-seized-blitz.html


----------



## labor of love (Sep 25, 2019)

Well are deep carry clips already illegal? If so, that would explain using a legal kitchen knife (although illegally concealed) in place as a weapon.


----------



## ian (Sep 25, 2019)

Food for thought, at least. Guess it makes more sense for teens without a lot of money to just grab a knife from their parents’ house or something. Wonder if this stat holds more generally for all stabbings, not just teens.


----------



## Barmoley (Sep 25, 2019)

It seems like this has been brewing for a while in the UK. From an article in 2018

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ng-solution-soaring-violent-crime-judge-says/
"Accordingly, it is very easy for any youth who wants to obtain a knife to take it from the kitchen drawer in his home or in the home of one of his friends.”
As a result - said the judge - the most common knife a youth will take out is eight to ten inches, long and pointed, from his mother's cutlery tray.
He asked: “But why we do need eight-inch or ten-inch kitchen knives with points?

“Butchers and fishmongers do, but how often, if at all, does a domestic chef use the point of an eight-inch or ten-inch knife? Rarely, if at all."

"Acknowledging that any blade could cause injury, the judge pointed out “slash wounds are rarely fatal.”
So, he said: “I would urge all those with any role in relation to knives - manufacturers, shops, the police, local authorities, the government - to consider preventing the sale of long pointed knives, except in rare, defined, circumstances, and replacing such knives with rounded ends.

"It might even be that the police could organise a programme whereby the owners of kitchen knives, which have been properly and lawfully bought for culinary purposes, could be taken somewhere to be modified, with the points being ground down into rounded ends," he said.


----------



## CoteRotie (Sep 25, 2019)

They're going to make everyone use these:


----------



## miggus (Sep 26, 2019)

chiffonodd said:


> It's a crazy idea but I'm not sure how someone could blame the EU for this one. It's a proposal by the Church of England.



Oh, Boris can. He's blamed the EU for all kinds of things, most of which were completely made up.


----------



## Marek07 (Sep 26, 2019)

chiffonodd said:


> It's a crazy idea but I'm not sure how someone could blame the EU for this one. It's a proposal by the Church of England.


It's not exclusively a proposal of the C of E... it was the recommendation of a knife crime conference held in Chatham. The conference was called The Point and was organised by St Margaret's Church, the University of Kent and the Medway African and Caribbean Association.

The letter making the recommendation was issued at the end of the conference. There were many contributors including "crime experts, MPs and religious leaders" calling on the Government to ban the sale of pointed domestic knives.

Regardless, it doesn't make it a reasoned recommendation IMO. If any one has access to the actual letter, I'd love to read it. I've only found snippets.


----------



## Michi (Sep 26, 2019)

I do not doubt that knife crimes are a serious problem in U.K. But the impracticality of the suggestion is what makes it so bizarre: it is not possible to ban kitchen knives with a point.

It reminds me of the attempt to legislate the value of Pi.


----------



## kayman67 (Sep 26, 2019)

They did manage Brexit, sort of, so anything is possible.


----------



## daddy yo yo (Sep 26, 2019)

mise_en_place said:


> With Brexit coming, England may not be part of the modern world much longer


I am not going to comment on Brexit. Hundreds of intelligent people... Uhm, no! Hundreds of people... Uhm, no! Hundreds of politicians get paid to sort out what the British people really wanted... or want... at least voted for... or against... What was it all about again?!??

What did I want to say? Oh yeah, Church of England! I am sure those advanced and modern dignitaries know exactly what is good and what is evil (let us all burn some witches), and they are very well known for their modern and of course always realistic point of view...


----------



## bm11 (Sep 26, 2019)

Not to turn this political, but this here is the exact reason that us second amendment advocates in the US fight so hard to not give an inch. It starts with automatic rifles and the next thing you know, they want to take away pointy knives. 

The next step is sharp knives, who really needs them?


----------



## ian (Sep 26, 2019)

...



Anyway. 

On the subject of the pointy knives, I wonder why they don't try to ban "open carry" of pointy knives in the street instead. Or are people mostly carrying them in backpacks anyway or something? It's certainly a curious overreaction.


----------



## kayman67 (Sep 26, 2019)

Any blade over 3" is not legal to carry as we speak, unless you can really justify why. That's not the problem. The problem goes a lot deeper and taking away all the tools in the world won't solve anything.


----------



## fimbulvetr (Sep 26, 2019)

I’m trying to remember the first time I read an article that claimed they were trying to ban pointy knives in England. It was toward the end of my first “real” job out of college and when I’d just really gotten into cooking and consequently kitchen knives, so... 2002?


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 26, 2019)

Migraine said:


> Guys you know just cause there's an article about it doesn't mean it's actually happening right?


They already restrict blade length, blade type and how or where a knife can be brandished. It is the same route that is used with guns. Put enough restrictions on use and eventually the public can be convinced they don't need the item in question.


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 26, 2019)

Customfan said:


> Sounds like something from the Onion!
> 
> ,-)


It would be the first time the onion produced an article that wasn't satire.


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 26, 2019)

ian said:


> This doesn’t seem weird to me at all. Who’s statistically more likely to stab you, the guy with the deep carry clip or the guy with the knife roll? Both events are unlikely, but I’d argue that the first is much more likely than the second.


The guy with the knife roll is probably the supplier to mafia hitmen and underworld assassins.


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 26, 2019)

ian said:


> Food for thought, at least. Guess it makes more sense for teens without a lot of money to just grab a knife from their parents’ house or something. Wonder if this stat holds more generally for all stabbings, not just teens.


People will use whatever is convenient with easy access. Knife nuts rarely stab people. When they do, it's with the cheap throwaway EDC.


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 26, 2019)

@bm11 you don't really need a sharp edge to cook at home. You can accomplish all of your cooking needs with a spoon.


----------



## Barmoley (Sep 26, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> Any blade over 3" is not legal to carry as we speak, unless you can really justify why. That's not the problem. The problem goes a lot deeper and taking away all the tools in the world won't solve anything.


Exactly, it is not about making more laws. It is already illegal to stub people. They need to deal with the root cause of the problem. If it is not knives it can be screwdrivers or nails or anything really. Kitchen knives are used just because they are easily accessible, make them difficult to get and something else will take their place. Stupid, band aid solution proposition.


----------



## ian (Sep 26, 2019)

Barmoley said:


> Exactly, it is not about making more laws. It is already illegal to stub people. They need to deal with the root cause of the problem. If it is not knives it can be screwdrivers or nails or anything really. Kitchen knives are used just because they are easily accessible, make them difficult to get and something else will take their place. Stupid, band aid solution proposition.



Very true. Although one should also add that what makes it stupid is that kitchen knives are important in other applications. If there was a trend where most stabbings were bizarrely done with Hello Kitty pins, I’d be down with banning them. Gain/loss assessment. 

Hello Kitty fans may disagree.


----------



## Barmoley (Sep 26, 2019)

ian said:


> Very true. Although one should also add that what makes it stupid is that kitchen knives are important in other applications. If there was a trend where most stabbings were bizarrely done with Hello Kitty pins, I’d be down with banning them. Gain/loss assessment.
> 
> Hello Kitty fans may disagree.


I agree whole heartetly with banning hello Kitty anything.

The point though stands, making more laws that ban specific items that happen to be used in an already illegal activity is stupid and useless. So it is not stupid because knives are used for other things, it is stupid in principle. You wouldn't ban rocks if people started running around smashing people on the heads with them. You wouldn't ban cars for running over people. You could argue that swords only exist to kill people so should be illegal, but that misses the point that killing people is already illegal and swords don't by themselves cause deaths. As such making swords illegal to prevent deaths by swords is idiotic.


----------



## M1k3 (Sep 26, 2019)

Who wants to go into the shiv business with me in England?


----------



## ian (Sep 26, 2019)

I totally agree with you in principle.


Barmoley said:


> I agree whole heartetly with banning hello Kitty anything.
> 
> The point though stands, making more laws that ban specific items that happen to be used in an already illegal activity is stupid and useless. So it is not stupid because knives are used for other things, it is stupid in principle. You wouldn't ban rocks if people started running around smashing people on the heads with them. You wouldn't ban cars for running over people. You could argue that swords only exist to kill people so should be illegal, but that misses the point that killing people is already illegal and swords don't by themselves cause deaths. As such making swords illegal to prevent deaths by swords is idiotic.



I totally agree with you in principle. However, since it seems hard to treat the root cause (one should still try), if a ban on Hello Kitty pins actually decreases the number of stabbings by fanboys/fangirls, it’s hard to argue that it was a bad idea, even considering one’s principles, since the positive impact would outweigh the negative imo. However, to my knowledge there’s never been such a Hello Kitty epidemic or ban, so we can’t talk statistics. 

I’ll let you have the last word, and bow out, though, before Matus gets mad at me.


----------



## Barmoley (Sep 26, 2019)

ian said:


> I totally agree with you in principle.
> 
> 
> I totally agree with you in principle. However, since it seems hard to treat the root cause (one should still try), if a ban on Hello Kitty pins actually decreases the number of stabbings by fanboys/fangirls, it’s hard to argue that it was a bad idea, principles and all.
> ...



Oh, I didn't realize @Matus was a Hello Kitty fan, I apologize in advance.


----------



## ian (Sep 26, 2019)

Btw, been using the Marko you sold me for a bit now, and it’s stupid awesome. Thanks again.


----------



## aboynamedsuita (Sep 26, 2019)

I have a Hello Kitty bladeguard but the tip is rounded on this 480mm blade, please don’t confiscate


----------



## Barmoley (Sep 26, 2019)

Someone around here has a Hello Kitty knife, it is pointed though, as far as I remember. Come on, whom ever has it fess up....


----------



## Xenif (Sep 26, 2019)

Barmoley said:


> Someone around here has a Hello Kitty knife, it is pointed though, as far as I remember. Come on, whom ever has it fess up....


I dont have a hello kitty knife but I have a hello kitty that has a knife does that count? (The hello kitty Shig santoku is what ur thinkig of)


----------



## Barmoley (Sep 26, 2019)

Xenif said:


> I dont have a hello kitty knife but I have a hello kitty that has a knife does that count? (The hello kitty Shig santoku is what ur thinkig of)


Yep, that's right, that's the one.....


----------



## Matus (Sep 26, 2019)

Barmoley said:


> You could argue that swords only exist to kill people so should be illegal, but that misses the point that killing people is already illegal and swords don't by themselves cause deaths. As such making swords illegal to prevent deaths by swords is idiotic.



Banning swords apparently worked extremely well in Japan.


----------



## Barmoley (Sep 26, 2019)

Matus said:


> Banning swords apparently worked extremely well in Japan.


They wiped out the whole samurai class and that particular way of life...


----------



## Matus (Sep 26, 2019)

Barmoley said:


> They wiped out the whole samurai class and that particular way of life...



Indeed, but it was overdue (one could draw a parallel to ‘militia’ in certain country but we should probably not discuss that here ) . Times change - and laws need to reflect the changes in snd evolution of given society.

... but how did we get here from Hello Kitty knives?


----------



## Xenif (Sep 26, 2019)

Matus said:


> Indeed, but it was overdue (one could draw a parallel to ‘militia’ in certain country but we should probably not discuss that here ) . Times change - and laws need to reflect the changes in snd evolution of given society.
> 
> ... but how did we get here from Hello Kitty knives?


The answer


----------



## Barmoley (Sep 26, 2019)

Matus said:


> Indeed, but it was overdue (one could draw a parallel to ‘militia’ in certain country but we should probably not discuss that here ) . Times change - and laws need to reflect the changes in snd evolution of given society.
> 
> ... but how did we get here from Hello Kitty knives?


I am trying to avoid "that" conversion very hard for many reasons, mainly because it is against forum rules.

Now, the Hello Kitty knife discussion is tricky because apparently you are a fan and we are all tip toying around it in fear of pissing you off...


----------



## Matus (Sep 26, 2019)

Barmoley said:


> Now, the Hello Kitty knife discussion is tricky because apparently you are a fan and we are all tip toying around it in fear of pissing you off...



Sorry about the first part, it was indeed a provocation.

But where is the part about me being a fan of Hello Kitty knives coming from?


----------



## ian (Sep 26, 2019)

The origin was Barmoley's inspired interpretation of my comment about you not appreciating a certain discussion above. My comment was about your reputation as a moderator extraordinaire, though. I currently have no evidence about whether or not you are a Hello Kitty fan.

Perhaps I should start a "How much do you love Hello Kitty?" poll thread, though. Then we could answer these important questions for the general KKF member, which would be... something.


----------



## Barmoley (Sep 26, 2019)

ian said:


> The origin was Barmoley's inspired interpretation of my comment about you not appreciating a certain discussion above. My comment was about your reputation as a moderator extraordinaire, though. I currently have no evidence about whether or not you are a Hello Kitty fan.
> 
> Perhaps I should start a "How much do you love Hello Kitty?" poll thread, though. Then we could answer these important questions for the general KKF member, which would be... something.



My kids keep on telling me I am not funny, they might be on to something.....


----------



## ian (Sep 26, 2019)

My 4 yr old thinks I'm hilarious. I imagine that in 5 years my sense of humor will not have changed, though, while his will have improved.


----------



## Barmoley (Sep 26, 2019)

Wait until he is a teenager..


----------



## McMan (Sep 26, 2019)

Ahem. Blame Stefan.


----------



## TB_London (Sep 26, 2019)

So the battle against knives is an odd one - uk edc can only be a folding knife with no locking mechanism with an edge length of less than 3” unless you have a valid reason in which case anything not on the banned list is fine (banned list is things like gravity knives, flick knives, etc)
So a chef can carry a 300mm gyuto to and from work as they have a valid reason.

Spyderco made the uk penknife to meet these requirements to have knife you can carry without needing a valid reason.

Denmark has similar laws but adds in it can’t be oho, so more restrictive in a way.

A lot of knife crime is kitchen knives as they are ubiquitous and cheap- a £1 kitchen knife vs a £1k rockstead 

You joke about hello kitty pins, but due to the increase in policing of knives a lot of ne’er do wells have switched to bicycle spokes, cheap easy to get hold of, not a knife and puts a hole in someone pretty easily.

These stories are pretty boring- with so much repetition of brexit news they need something different to report. It will never come to anything, as where can it stop, everyone will have to grind their finger nails down on the pavement as nail scissors are too pointy, blacksmithing is prohibited as can be a way of making metal pointy, trees can only be pruned by snapping the branches, nonsense


----------



## Nikabrik (Sep 27, 2019)

From the letter:


> Historically we needed a point on the end of our knife to pick up food because forks weren’t invented. Now we only need the point to open packets when we can’t be bothered to find the scissors.



Does anyone remember the safety/prison knife from Richmond a few years ago?


----------



## chiffonodd (Sep 27, 2019)

Nikabrik said:


> From the letter:
> 
> 
> Does anyone remember the safety/prison knife from Richmond a few years ago?



lol yes


----------



## Mute-on (Sep 27, 2019)

McMan said:


> Ahem. Blame Stefan.



My favorite wa handle of all time!! 

It ended up on a Shig petty IIRC?

Hello Shiggy


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 27, 2019)

Mute-on said:


> My favorite wa handle of all time!!
> 
> It ended up on a Shig petty IIRC?
> 
> Hello Shiggy


Kat.o


----------



## Mute-on (Sep 27, 2019)

Nope 

http://s913.photobucket.com/user/hansbeernink/media/IMG_1545_zps36cbcc93.jpg.html]



[/URL][/QUOTE]


----------



## Dave Martell (Sep 27, 2019)

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/stefans-handle-gallery.246/page-13#post-290408


----------



## Xenif (Sep 27, 2019)

That was the knife that got me started with my own knife journey ... I didn't even know what a Shigefusa was when I first saw it


----------



## Qapla' (Sep 27, 2019)

Xenif said:


> That was the knife that got me started with my own knife journey ... I didn't even know what a Shigefusa was when I first saw it



So how has your journey informed your perspective on Hello Kitty and on Shigefusa's knives?


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 28, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> Who wants to go into the shiv business with me in England?


I'm always looking for a good business opportunity.


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 28, 2019)

ian said:


> I totally agree with you in principle.
> 
> 
> I totally agree with you in principle. However, since it seems hard to treat the root cause (one should still try), if a ban on Hello Kitty pins actually decreases the number of stabbings by fanboys/fangirls, it’s hard to argue that it was a bad idea, even considering one’s principles, since the positive impact would outweigh the negative imo. However, to my knowledge there’s never been such a Hello Kitty epidemic or ban, so we can’t talk statistics.
> ...


London beat New York in murders this year. Banning weapons does nothing.

Europe has seen an increase in acid attacks. I would rather be stabbed, shot ran over with a car.


----------



## Qapla' (Sep 28, 2019)

Looks like their production has already started...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...proof-kitchen-knife-launced-bid-combat-knife/


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 28, 2019)

Matus said:


> Banning swords apparently worked extremely well in Japan.


They just substituted with sushi knives. School stabbings is a major problem in Japan. You just don't hear about it.

Yakuza still find ways to get guns somehow.


----------



## Marek07 (Sep 28, 2019)

Chef Doom said:


> London beat New York in murders this year.


According to Wikipedia, this was only true in February 2018. However, that month was an aberration. New York has always had a higher murder rate.


----------



## riba (Sep 28, 2019)

Marek07 said:


> According to Wikipedia, this was only true in February 2018. However, that month was an aberration. New York has always had a higher murder rate.


https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-...-londons-murder-rate-is-not-higher-than-nycs/

And focussing on knives:
https://www.euronews.com/amp/2019/06/18/deadly-knife-crime-how-does-london-compare-to-new-york


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 28, 2019)

Marek07 said:


> According to Wikipedia, this was only true in February 2018. However, that month was an aberration. New York has always had a higher murder rate.


Those are handy excuses politicians use to avoid hard work.


----------



## Chef Doom (Sep 28, 2019)

riba said:


> https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-...-londons-murder-rate-is-not-higher-than-nycs/
> 
> And focussing on knives:
> https://www.euronews.com/amp/2019/06/18/deadly-knife-crime-how-does-london-compare-to-new-york


Didn't the knife article basically dismiss themselves by admitting both the FBI and British crime statistics are not accurate and are hard to compare because of the method of compilation?

Oh I forgot. People don't like to read the full article.


----------



## riba (Sep 29, 2019)

hehehe, thanks for summarizing the 2nd article 

Could you please be a lamb and assess the first article as well?


----------



## Chef Doom (Oct 3, 2019)

Don't have to. I was making a point. People use catchy headlines to support their position even when the context with said article will state otherwise.

I can't remember the context of the research paper but I once read one where in the summary where the researcher made recommendations that went AGAINST his own research results.


----------



## riba (Oct 3, 2019)

Chef Doom said:


> Don't have to. I was making a point. People use catchy headlines to support their position even when the context with said article will state otherwise.
> .


But you seem to be arriving at the same conclusion as me.


----------



## Chef Doom (Oct 3, 2019)

Reading the first article would take precious time out of my lazy non functional day which is the real reason. It's hard enough to play Borderlands 2 and respond to KKF at the same time haha.

Maybe some of my forum rage comes from when I waste a golden key on a cheap pointless weapon lol.


----------



## chiffonodd (Oct 3, 2019)

Chef Doom said:


> Don't have to. I was making a point. People use catchy headlines to support their position even when the context with said article will state otherwise.
> 
> I can't remember the context of the research paper but I once read one where in the summary where the researcher made recommendations that went AGAINST his own research results.



You can't make a point, they have been banned


----------



## Chef Doom (Oct 4, 2019)

riba said:


> hehehe, thanks for summarizing the 2nd article
> 
> Could you please be a lamb and assess the first article as well?



Since you asked nicely, and I have no life being up in the middle of the night due to too much sugar and coffee intake, I decided to read the first article.

I like how the author admits that London did have more murders for 2 months, but you can't count that because it was an anomaly in his own words. As if that defeats the purpose that it was news worthy in the first place. Donald Trump is an anomaly but that does not change the fact that he is the current president. 

I like how he kindly ignored the fact that murders in New York have been steadily declining since at least the 1990s while London murder rate has been pretty consistent. I have no love for New York, but you can at least say they are making the city safer. London on the other hand figures that the tradition of a steady murder rate is a proper direction.

The author also noted that it is impossible to compare violent crimes in general so he ignores any comparisons. It was a nice dodge on his part. 

One strange individual made a comment that there are more murders in NY overall because of the guns, as if cars don't kill just as many people. The real reason is because while the USA has an active long tradition of waging war on drugs and gangs, London does not have the same policies. As London, and Europe in general with a few exceptions, treats drug usage, possession, dealing, and trafficking more lenient than the US as well as state sponsored outreach programs to help young gang members, maybe, just maybe they don't breed the same environment that leads to more violent crime.

London also has more generous welfare programs that more young men can have access to than the US (as I have been told and read randomly). Less desperation and more chances for opportunity means less need to commit illegal acts in my humble opinion.

Did I mention that murders in the US have been declining overall for decades?

None of this applies to immigrants of course because no country on the planet cares about poor immigrants. Just sayin.


----------



## riba (Oct 4, 2019)

Thank you. Now I can rely on your summary and extrapolations as opposed to actually reading the articulate to support my not yet disclosed position


----------



## Chef Doom (Oct 4, 2019)

If it helps you can always use the "If by Whiskey" argument.


----------

