# Suehiro revamping their debado series



## masibu (Jul 16, 2018)

I was crusing around looking at all the different stones that I'll probably never buy and came across some info on the suehiro page regarding their debado line

http://www.suehiro-toishi.com/en/uncategorized/debado-3-series/

I have never used this series of stones as they have always been so expensive for my rather skint lifestyle im currently leading but im hoping that with the new line coming out that the older line might drop enough in price to consider worth the purchase.

Has anyone had much experience in either line? Im curious about that new 180 grit stone thats listed on the website and im always in the market for 1-3k stones and possibly 6k stones (if the price is right) just for the sake of testing. The "new and improved" debado series seem to be priced at a similar rate to the choseras but are a larger stone I believe so I'd be interested in some commentary there as I have owned and used choseras (first stones I ever bought) and can relate to their use.


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## Sharpchef (Jul 18, 2018)

I tested some of them, the only good ones are the 15 and 20k one`s... But they are the best in terms of speed and polish. The other ones had quite a good feedback but lack of speed especially for their size. Hope that helps. 

greets Sebastian.


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## panda (Jul 22, 2018)

i'm curious about all three of the coarse stones, 180 200 and 320


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## Dave Martell (Jul 23, 2018)

I have only used the older Debado series (since discontinued) and I hated them. I've been curious about these new series of Debado stones for years. Many people seem to really love them. And like Panda I'm most curious about the lower grit stones. I've sort of given up on low grit stones though, sandpaper is much more Dave friendly.


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## masibu (Jul 23, 2018)

I'm getting a kind of "meh" vibe about them, not something I'd want in a rather expensive stone.

I'm yet to find an overly "awesome" coarse stone yet. I find myself using a whole bunch for different purposes and am thinking to go the sandpaper route to replace my broken coarse stones. However I've recently stumbled across a coarse naniwa thats like 120 grit.. I think it was called "hato"? Have you got any experience with this stone?

I bought 2 of them, both of which were unexpectedly different sizes. First one was short and wide and the other was a bit longer and narrower. Ive only used the first one (briefly) and it was fairly muddy but due to the shorter size i thought perhaps that would make it a bit easier to keep flat overall. The other one im going to try using oil instead of water (they were very cheap) to see whether that might make it a little less muddy. I dont know what the abrasive is but it seems like a softer version of my norton crystolon


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## panda (Mar 4, 2020)

anyone try the debado series?
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Suehiro-Debado-MD-Stone-P1723.aspx
particularly the 200 grit

i am still in search of a badass extra coarse stone. nothing seems to be better than cerax 320, and that has its own problems..


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## Alder26 (Mar 4, 2020)

panda said:


> anyone try the debado series?
> https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Suehiro-Debado-MD-Stone-P1723.aspx
> particularly the 200 grit
> 
> i am still in search of a badass extra coarse stone. nothing seems to be better than cerax 320, and that has its own problems..



Have you tried the nanohone 200? cuts quick, dishes pretty slow, does the job nicely. kinda pricey though.


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## panda (Mar 4, 2020)

never heard of it, tell me more


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## Alder26 (Mar 4, 2020)

I had a cerax 320 and got rid of because it dished crazy fast. The nanohone is faster and dishes much slower than the cerax. Cuts pretty much everything really well and has decent feel for something that’s 200grit.


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## rickbern (Mar 4, 2020)

@Barclid , any comments about these debados for knives?


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## valgard (Mar 4, 2020)

Alder26 said:


> Have you tried the nanohone 200? cuts quick, dishes pretty slow, does the job nicely. kinda pricey though.


I disagree with the dishes pretty slow part here. I'm actually lukewarm on the nanohone 200 because the speed is great but it dishes too easily and hides a lot of problems for my taste.


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## Barclid (Mar 4, 2020)

panda said:


> anyone try the debado series?
> https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Suehiro-Debado-MD-Stone-P1723.aspx
> particularly the 200 grit
> 
> i am still in search of a badass extra coarse stone. nothing seems to be better than cerax 320, and that has its own problems..



Yeah I have used them pretty extensively as well as the Cerax 320 and Nano Hone 200. The Debado MD 200 is noticeably faster than either of them but has a somewhat harsh unpleasant feedback and leaves fairly deep scratches. Nano Hone 200 is significantly slower than the Debado MD 200 and dishes at a *roughly* comparable rate but the finish from the Nano Hone 200 is much finer and easy to clean up on subsequent grits than the MD 200. The MD 200 is splash and go in spirit but will drink in some water at first. About 10 seconds under a running tap and it's ready to go.. It dries out a bit faster than the Nano Hone. The Cerax 320 has a more pleasant feedback to it than the MD 200 for sure. There's also the SNE 320 which is kind of like a splash and go version of the Cerax 320 and as such it's much too fast to dish for my taste. The best way I can describe the MD 200 is like your typical Green SiC brick, slightly slower wearing, harsher feedback and scratch pattern and it's splash and go (with previously stated caveat). I find the MD better suited to a wider variety of steels than the Nano Hone.. higher alloy content steels like blue super, R2, or Honyaki knives aren't cut very effectively by the Nano Hone.


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## Robert Lavacca (Mar 4, 2020)

I was a cerax 320 guy myself until i grabbed a king 300. Maybe its in my head but the king cuts way faster than my cerax 320. Even if you use lighter pressure and work the mud the cerax dishes but its still a decent stone. I have been using the king 300 pretty much for all my coarse stone needs. Been wanting to try the atoma 400. I’ve tried a few suehiro stones and most of the time i find myself liking others more so I kind of gave up.


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## Barclid (Mar 4, 2020)

Robert Lavacca said:


> I was a cerax 320 guy myself until i grabbed a king 300. Maybe its in my head but the king cuts way faster than my cerax 320. Even if you use lighter pressure and work the mud the cerax dishes but its still a decent stone. I have been using the king 300 pretty much for all my coarse stone needs. Been wanting to try the atoma 400. I’ve tried a few suehiro stones and most of the time i find myself liking others more so I kind of gave up.



Very strange that you find the King 300 cuts faster than the Cerax 320. How long have you been using it? The King 300 is so minimally friable that any long session with it necessitates reconditioning to bring back its cutting performance while the Cerax is constantly refreshing itself.


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## Robert Lavacca (Mar 4, 2020)

Barclid said:


> Very strange that you find the King 300 cuts faster than the Cerax 320. How long have you been using it? The King 300 is so minimally friable that any long session with it necessitates reconditioning to bring back its cutting performance while the Cerax is constantly refreshing itself.


This is true. I’m about halfway through my cerax. The king i’ve had for about a month and actually prefer it when thinning. It could just be me who knows. It’s the only king stone I have the rest are gesshin and jns but I enjoy it even though it is annoying when it stops cutting. For me I just feel the cerax is slower.


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## JBroida (Mar 4, 2020)

Barclid said:


> Very strange that you find the King 300 cuts faster than the Cerax 320. How long have you been using it? The King 300 is so minimally friable that any long session with it necessitates reconditioning to bring back its cutting performance while the Cerax is constantly refreshing itself.


yeah... i actually dont think the king is faster at all either


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## Robert Lavacca (Mar 4, 2020)

JBroida said:


> yeah... i actually dont think the king is faster at all either


Maybe it’s me just telling myself i’m not a fan of the cerax.


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## panda (Mar 4, 2020)

You out yo mind if you think king 300 cuts faster.


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## labor of love (Mar 4, 2020)

Do you soak cerax before use? I’ve used them both too, something isn’t right.


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## panda (Mar 4, 2020)

this sounds like there isnt much better than cerax 320


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## panda (Mar 4, 2020)

@Barclid
have you tried this one? https://www.aframestokyo.com/gc-green-carborundum-220-rough-grit-whetst220.html
it feels awful and isnt any faster than cerax lol

i may have to try the MD 200 if it is truly faster than cerax


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## Barclid (Mar 4, 2020)

panda said:


> @Barclid
> have you tried this one? https://www.aframestokyo.com/gc-green-carborundum-220-rough-grit-whetst220.html
> it feels awful and isnt any faster than cerax lol
> 
> i may have to try the MD 200 if it is truly faster than cerax



Yeah I've tried that one. FWIW, I find it faster than the Cerax 320 but I've had the surface glaze once or twice if I flatten it with a diamond plate that's a little too worn and then I have to recondition - ditto to the MD 200. MD 200 is absolutely faster than the Cerax 320 but the Cerax is just so friable that it's pretty much *always* cutting at peak effectiveness.


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## panda (Mar 4, 2020)

yeah glaze/loading is a deal breaker for me which is why i dont use it


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## Barclid (Mar 4, 2020)

panda said:


> yeah glaze/loading is a deal breaker for me which is why i dont use it


 If you still have that stone, you should condition it with SiC and then just be mindful of flattening it with a worn diamond plate. I've noticed that as long as I don't use something unsuited to flattening it, I don't run into the glazing issue often.


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## panda (Mar 4, 2020)

thats too much work lol im about to give it away to a friend


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## Barclid (Mar 4, 2020)

panda said:


> thats too much work lol im about to give it away to a friend



I think Jon's pink 220 will suit you well.


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## Alder26 (Mar 5, 2020)

valgard said:


> I disagree with the dishes pretty slow part here. I'm actually lukewarm on the nanohone 200 because the speed is great but it dishes too easily and hides a lot of problems for my taste.


I guess for me compared to the cerax it dishes much slower. I totally agree about it hiding highs and lows, it definitely needs to be used in unison with a glass 500 or something hard to achieve really flat bevels.


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## Alder26 (Mar 5, 2020)

How bout the Sigma power 240? similar to the debado? now i'm starting to think about one of these other low grit stones haha


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## panda (Mar 5, 2020)

Sigma feels like death


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## Barclid (Mar 5, 2020)

panda said:


> Sigma feels like death


 The MD 200 feels even more aggressive/harsh than the Sigma Power 240. Jon's 220 also feels pretty harsh but it's a little better than the Sigma and the MD 200 and it's very aggressive and very friable.


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## panda (Mar 5, 2020)

At this point for thinning I just want pure speed. So give md 200 a try? Can chosera 400 remove those scratches?


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## Barclid (Mar 5, 2020)

panda said:


> At this point for thinning I just want pure speed. So give md 200 a try? Can chosera 400 remove those scratches?



Yeah, it can. I most often remove the scratches with Shapton Glass 500.


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## inferno (Mar 5, 2020)

is there any retailer that have pretty much all the higher end "gokumyo" series of stones? i think they make like 5-6 different premium series. i see both dictum and fine tools only carry the cerax and the "traditional" (rika) or whatever they call them.


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## kayman67 (Mar 5, 2020)

I don't think so.

https://www.whetstone.fi/category/23/suehiro for some Debado. 

In US, MTC sells some Goku. But not all of them.


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## KingShapton (Mar 7, 2020)

inferno said:


> is there any retailer that have pretty much all the higher end "gokumyo" series of stones? i think they make like 5-6 different premium series. i see both dictum and fine tools only carry the cerax and the "traditional" (rika) or whatever they call them.


https://www.japan-messer-shop.de/japanische-schleifsteine--japanische-wassersteine/Suehiro/


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## inferno (Mar 7, 2020)

cool. i see suehiro has now removed some of their lines and some of the stones in their lines. there used be a 300 taiga and a whole series of "dual stones" that was similar to glass stones. not anymore i guess.

i think they are kinda shooting themselves in the foot. and i thought that before too. the series of stones they carry is simply too weird. with weird jumps in grits. and its highly confusing.

if i was suehiro and considering what they now make i would do like this:

gokumyo series. from 120-20k done. could be thin ones like 5mm.
gokumyo oversized 120-20k like 120-250-500-1k-2k-3k-4k-5k-6k-8k-10k-15k-20k
debado same as goks. 120-20k or 10k or whatever. and then an oversized series. maybe call it "XL".... 

dual stone. no one cares about this so this could be ditched. and some of the old dual stones were dual stones because you could use both oil and water on them (dafuq!), and some were different tech on the different sides but same "grit", and no one cares about this **** either.

maybe they should make a dual gok. 
maybe 500-3/4k
and 250-2k or similar. something that makes sense at least.
and 1k-5k.

then they can have the traditional line. make all stones like the rika. but from 250 to 10k.

but if they really want to push the envelope why not make debado diamond. with 10% diamond powder. or gok cbn with 10% cbn.


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