# Finishing stone for straight razor



## GRoc (Dec 19, 2016)

Hi guys,

I recently got a vintage straight razor. It came "shave ready" and I had 2 comfortable shaves with it. I am stropping it on balsa loaded with 1 micron diamond and 0.5 micron green paste, and then bare leather. It is still fine to shave and I want to start looking for a fine stone to sharpen/hone it in the future.
Budget is limited for now to less than $100. Koppa size stones are fine. Could be naturals or synthetic. 
what is your favorite one? Help me spend a bit of money 

Thanks a ton!
G


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## Smashmasta (Dec 21, 2016)

OK, just so you know, hones for razors are typically a seperate animal than most Jnats for knives. They have an equally as deep rabbit hole that you can fall into, especially if you expand into natural stones from around the world outside of Jnats. Some Jnat awesado can get expensive, so you're price range is pretty limiting. Honestly Buyee is going to be your best bet.

JNATS
Maxim at JNS has size 100 Shoubudani awesado for under $100. They seem to be all sold out right now, but they usually come back in stock, but it looks like he won't be back in until the start of next month. They look like this. Narutaki, Oozuku, Ozaki, Nakayama - all these 'Honyama' mines are going to be very expensive, so below is a short list of lesser known mines that should provide you with a full size stone for around your budget.

One option is a Wakasa, which are typically hard enough for razors and also cheap. I just did a review on mine, which is a softer variety (which I was looking for). The review is here, and you can find an example on Buyee for under $100 here (I'm not positive that this a Wakasa, but this is the buyer I got mine from, with the same description, and it sounds hard enough regardless). Another option is a Mizukihara. My review here, Buyee example here. Yaginoshima Buyee example here. There are dozens of 'barber' hones, 'hard carbide ports', etc on Buyee, and as long as they're hard and fine, they'll likely be sufficient for your needs.

Non Jnats
The 'Western' stones tend to have a greater history as razor hones, so while there is a decent variety of Jnats as razor hones, there are even more Western stones, with some claiming hefty prices (eg authentic labeled Eschers). Western razor hones tend to be of the slate variety or even denser and harder forms of metamorphic rock, while Jnats are often siliceous shale, which is typically softer. The cheapest route for a slate hone is to ask a local or regional slate roofing or kitchen top provider for a small cut of slate, typically of the Vermont variety. Here's an example of a fun Welsh slate from an ebay seller I've bought from is here - cheap. Badger did a really good review of all of the sellers options, here.

Belgian coticules and thuringian stones are classics in the shaving world. Honestly, slate is probably easier to handled for a beginner as coticules et al work with garnets and dilution methods are much more important. Matthew at Griffiths Shaving Goods (site here), has a wide selection of hones, most under your price range. Peter, at Thuringianhones.de has a smaller selection here.

I'm quickly drowning in this rabbit hole, so if you have any other questions, let me know. There are a number of straight users on this site, but the straight razor place and badger and blade forums are dedicated razor forums.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Dec 21, 2016)

First, limit your pre-shave stropping to plain leather until you notice a degradation in the edge before you strop on the loaded balsa. You should be able to go at least a week between stropping on balsa, perhaps longer, depending on your beard. When you can no longer refresh the edge on the loaded balsa, then it's time to move to a stone. I suggest that you get a synthetic in the 12k grit range before you dive into the world of natural stones. The most often recommended stone in that range is the Naniwa 12k, which is around $90. 

Rick


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## PalmRoyale (Dec 21, 2016)

A nice coticule from the La Veinette vein will usually get you a very good, soft and comfortable shave. I have a La Veinette and I shave straight of the edge it delivers.


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## chinacats (Dec 21, 2016)

I like Rick's advice...If you don't have a nice hanging leather strops, I'd pick one up in addition to the synthetic. Maxim's shoubudani or a coticule will make for something to look forward to one you settle into your routine.


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## malexthekid (Dec 21, 2016)

Question for you guys. Are hanging leather strops better than unloaded balsa? I have been playing with ny razor for a while (didn't come shave ready so am having to discover what the best edge is).

Recently picked up a couple of jnats from maksim (aiiwatani and nakayama) to play with so just wondering now about upgrading my strop (eventually).


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## chinacats (Dec 21, 2016)

Hanging leather strop (bare) is what I use every day to the razor before a shave...loaded goodies work, but I go to a stone once the strop doesn't seem to do the trick.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Dec 21, 2016)

malexthekid said:


> Question for you guys. Are hanging leather strops better than unloaded balsa? I have been playing with ny razor for a while (didn't come shave ready so am having to discover what the best edge is).
> 
> Recently picked up a couple of jnats from maksim (aiiwatani and nakayama) to play with so just wondering now about upgrading my strop (eventually).



Not so much "better" than "easier". Most balsa is only about 12" long, where a hanging strop is usually twice that so you get more stropping effect per pass.


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## Smashmasta (Dec 22, 2016)

malexthekid said:


> Question for you guys. Are hanging leather strops better than unloaded balsa? I have been playing with ny razor for a while (didn't come shave ready so am having to discover what the best edge is).
> 
> Recently picked up a couple of jnats from maksim (aiiwatani and nakayama) to play with so just wondering now about upgrading my strop (eventually).



There's a highly subjective component to this as well. Rigid platforms such as balsa or paddle strops make it harder to roll your edge as they remain flat and require a greater portion of user error to go wrong, but can be slower, and often shorter than strops as mentioned. Hanging strops require the user to simultaneously pay greater attention maintaining the proper and consistent angle of contact with the strop and razor, as well as the tension of the strop. There seems to be a bit more of a majority of veteran users preferring hanging strops to paddle or balsa strops (although some still love and use them), and more beginners using rigid platforms. 

You could get a hanging strop and compare the edge results vs balsa to see which you prefer. You then could load the balsa with a compound and compare to your strop to see which you prefer.


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## chinacats (Dec 22, 2016)

The flexibility is what allowed you to work the strop to your advantage...

I would add that if you're going to load anything, I'd prefer CrOx to diamond...maybe mental but the shave off a diamond edge is as bad as the edge off those plastic sheets that some people love. Damn thing will get sharp as hell but be most uncomfortable.


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## psfred (Dec 25, 2016)

Too many choices, obviously...

I have the set of Welsh slate hones, but have not shaved with an edge off of them yet, so can't comment. There are plenty of people who like them. 

Belgian coticules are the "gold standard" in razor hones, closely followed by Thuringian slates (the originals). Neither is cheap, but will last you a lifetime, as you should not be needing to hone a razor very often.

For a strop, horse leather is the best option. You should only be using a pasted strop (using chromium oxide) when a plain strop will not give you a good shave. You don't want to remove metal every shave, you want to restore the edge.

When you acquire good technique, you will only need to hone the blade every couple months or so typically. Poor technique is hard on the edge, so starting out you may need more honing, but it should still be an occasional things.

The standard recommendation when starting out with straight razors is to have your razor professionally honed and stropped before using it. That will let you feel what it should be like right off the bat, so you can restore than edge yourself later. 

If you want to use synthetic stones, a finishing stone is in the 12,000 grit range. Razors are not at all like knives in that regard.

Peter


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## F-Flash (Dec 25, 2016)

I got straight razor as Christmas present and am now wondering about sharpening it. I have ohira renge suita. Is it fine enought for straight razors as finisher? :scratchhead: I will obviously find out for sure when I have the need to sharpen my razor. But want to hear your opinion. Thanks!


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## PalmRoyale (Dec 26, 2016)

Here's a tip for all you gents with a wife/girlfriend. Shave her legs with your straightrazor. She'll love you for it. Mine does.


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## Smashmasta (Dec 26, 2016)

PalmRoyale said:


> Here's a tip for all you gents with a wife/girlfriend. Shave her legs with your straightrazor. She'll love you for it. Mine does.



Haha, I've lost count of how many times Palm has mentioned this. :lol2:


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## Smashmasta (Dec 26, 2016)

F-Flash said:


> I got straight razor as Christmas present and am now wondering about sharpening it. I have ohira renge suita. Is it fine enought for straight razors as finisher? :scratchhead: I will obviously find out for sure when I have the need to sharpen my razor. But want to hear your opinion. Thanks!



You're going to hate this answer - but it's kinda impossible to tell. There are some fast sliiightly 'coarser' Ohira suitas, and there are some suuuper hard and fine options. I'd say you could certainly get away with the super hard ones as a finisher, and the slightly faster ones as a pre-finisher (not worth using oil to see if you can push it to finisher level on the faster ones, though). You could test your suita with a high carbon knife, if you have one, and see how fast it is to get an idea of how it will perform on your razor if you want to be cautious. Obviously there's no better way to tell than putting your steel to the stone...


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## PalmRoyale (Dec 27, 2016)

Smashmasta said:


> Haha, I've lost count of how many times Palm has mentioned this. :lol2:


I haven't. Exactly 2 times.


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## Smashmasta (Dec 27, 2016)

PalmRoyale said:


> I haven't. Exactly 2 times.



I guess both those time just stuck with me, haha.


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## foody518 (Dec 28, 2016)

The first time was effective enough XD


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## PalmRoyale (Dec 28, 2016)

It definitely made an impression :lol2:


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## F-Flash (Jan 2, 2017)

I'm borrowing this thread since I'm also looking for finisher for my straightrazor. So far I've had these in mind.
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone11.htm number 11 there.
La veinette.
Naniwa superstone 12k

My budget is around 100 , Watanabe needs nagura, with it and shipping it goes around 150. Is it worth the extra ? I could get la veinette and naniwa both with that money.

If you have experience with any of these stones and razors, please tell me if they are good match! Any insight will be helpful. Also looking for other cheaper options.


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## Smashmasta (Jan 2, 2017)

F-Flash said:


> I'm borrowing this thread since I'm also looking for finisher for my straightrazor. So far I've had these in mind.
> http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone11.htm number 11 there.
> La veinette.
> Naniwa superstone 12k
> ...



As good as some Jnats can be for razors, the informational and supportive resources are far greater for European stones (at least in the English speaking world), and so you might benefit more from going the La Veinette route. I have a Veinette and it's by far my favorite European stone (but just like Jnats, all natural stones fall prey to being different than one another even if they come from the same vein), so I would definitely suggest it. It can also be used on knives. And since you can get a very high grit synth in addition, than that's just another reason to go that route.

Although 'official' declarations of where a stone came from doesn't really matter in the end as long as it performs well, Watanabe only thinks #11 comes from Nakayama. I'm sure it's a very good stone. Resale value may be affected a bit without knowing where it came from, though. It's also very short, just over 4 inches. What are the dimensions of the La Veinette you can get? Obviously razor stones don't need to be as big as knife stones, but IME, the bigger the better (up to a point). 

A cheaper option could be buying a hard Wakasa or Yaginoshima on Buyee, as long as the bidding doesn't exceed the set value for the other stones you have in mind. Shipping can also run $30-50 for one stone, which sucks. Maxim at JNS typically as a bunch of koppa or size 100 gata stones for razors, but his stuff is usually a bit marked up in price (but tested, so that's reassuring).


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## chinacats (Jan 2, 2017)

For razor I suggest a small hard stone and some decent nagura. Maxim usually has good entry level J-nats available. If it looks really cool, be prepared to pay.


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