# mazaki knives



## panda

i just got one today a 240 gyuto. though this one is listed at 250mm which was a big part of the reason i chose to pick one up.
didnt want to post in the JNS thread for this because i got it from cleancut. they also offer a KU version.

i am blown away by it. mind you this is just initial impressions.

profile is not nearly as good as it looks in photo but it's fine and can also be adjusted. but good news it does run long and tall. each flat section is about an inch which is fine because the curve is gradual and not belly. stock starts off fat at the handle but tapers aggressively at the start then gradual taper and then aggressive again at the tip. spine to edge tapering is there as well, quite thin behind the edge as in a lot of meat taken off as you get closer to the edge. because of that it's not hefty feeling yet it kinda does, hard to explain. i would say it's in between a mid and workhorse. from initial cutting (30 seconds) i'd say the grind is fully convex right face, with a very tall wide bevel left face but the shoulder smoothed out, it's pretty good. not watanabe good but it cuts nice. spine and choil are eased quite well, but not rounded. the handle, oh man it's #$%#$%#$^**#& sweet! it looks to me like some kind of cherry wood, D shape and already oil treated, perfectly flush/shaped buffalo horn. this is an extremely good knife, i can't believe it only cost $260 us and arrived in 3 days. i will go on and say this is the best buy out there by far.
too early to really say but this might be replacing my watanabe even. i will comment about the steel once ive used it more and put on stones.


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## chinacats

Nice looking knife! I've come to realize that I really suck at being able to tell much about profile from online pics...looks to me to have a pretty decent flat spot. Looking forward to some follow-up once you've used it a bit.


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## fatboylim

Love the thickness of the spine at the handle! Reminds me of the Kato...


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## panda

It is not a chunky knife by any means. More like a workhorse laser hybrid.


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## Matus

Cool. What is the weight?


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## panda

I'll weigh it tomorrow at work


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## GorillaGrunt

I dont have a Wat gyuto, Toyama, or Kato but the picture reminds me of the old style Sabatier taper. +1 looking forward to performance notes.


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## panda

this is pretty unique, it doesnt stand out at any one thing but the sum of its parts is what makes it so good. like the legendary KS in its own way. if i were to put a generalization on it, it would be a thinner white steel watanabe with a pointier tip and a little more curve in the profile. this shape suits my technique more than a straight up push cutter like a wat because i am more of a slicer and push/pull than anything else.


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## kmtyb

I purchased the 180mm and 240mm when JNS had sale few weeks back. I never used or own Toyama, Kato, Shigefusa, or watanabe but thus far Mazaki has blown my other purchases out of the water. I only used the 180mm past week and it has been a joy to use. Surprisingly, it is not very reactive and acts like a semi-stainless steel knife.


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## panda

maybe it could be the ghetto looking finish  i am 100% all about this, want to keep it like this if possible.

curious, if you havent tried any of the other classics, what made you choose to try this brand new maker?? was it simply because of its value based price?


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## kmtyb

My first purchase last year was few lasers and I was in shock how well those things cut vs $50 target set our family used for many years. In few month I learned that there are other types of knives vs. lasers and purchased Tanaka blue 2 240mm gyuto. I was in awe how little bit of heft made the knife feel more substantial. I was going to purchase toyama gyuto looking for more heft but when I saw the sale on Mazaki, purchased two for almost price of one. Thus far, best knife I have used.


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## DitmasPork

That's a gorgeous gyuto, very distinctive profile. I've never heard of Cleancut, just checked out their websitethe Kurouchi version of the Masakis look pretty sweet! Looking forward to your observations on the Masaki after you've used it for a while.


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## 42537703

Do you mind to list some spec of the knife?


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## panda

rough measurement mine is 253x53 a really awesome size.


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## 42537703

How about the weight? It seems like thinner than the newer JNS version.


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## ashy2classy

Nice write-up and pics! Glad you're enjoying yours. 

My 220 arrived today as well. Specs are...

Length: 220mm
Height: 51mm
Weight: 6.49 oz / 184g

Gotta say I really enjoyed using it tonight. Has good weight and feels great in the hand. The handle is simple and flawless - one of the best stock d handles I've seen. I'd love to have it reprofiled to bring the tip up a little higher, but for now it's definitely a keeper. 

Thanks to preizzo for posting his on IG. His post was the reason I purchased one.

Hope you both continue to enjoy your Mazakis, I know I will.


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## panda

I would guess around 225g. I'll weigh it on a scale tomorrow.


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## Bolek

Look nice.
BTW how do you comunicate with Cleancut ? Is ther any EN website ?


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## panda

email [email protected] responds in perfect english


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## bkultra

Order placed, I'll update once I receive it


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## DitmasPork

Bolek said:


> Look nice.
> BTW how do you comunicate with Cleancut ? Is ther any EN website ?



All the Swedesand Scandinavians in generalI've encountered during my two trips to Stockholm spoke perfect English.


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## chipzaroy

The person I spoke to, Chris, was super friendly and very helpful. His English was also very good. Also, on a side note, their shipping is RIDICULOUSLY fast. Sweden to Los Angeles in 2 days!


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## DitmasPork

Pandathe more I look at it the more it seems a bargain at that price point!


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## labor of love

Panda, maybe a photo comparison of Mazaki next to watanabe for scale would be cool. Just curious what they look like next to each visually.


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## dafox

panda said:


> i just got one today a 240 gyuto. though this one is listed at 250mm which was a big part of the reason i chose to pick one up.
> didnt want to post in the JNS thread for this because i got it from cleancut. they also offer a KU version.
> 
> i am blown away by it. mind you this is just initial impressions.
> 
> profile is not nearly as good as it looks in photo but it's fine and can also be adjusted. but good news it does run long and tall. each flat section is about an inch which is fine because the curve is gradual and not belly. stock starts off fat at the handle but tapers aggressively at the start then gradual taper and then aggressive again at the tip. spine to edge tapering is there as well, quite thin behind the edge as in a lot of meat taken off as you get closer to the edge. because of that it's not hefty feeling yet it kinda does, hard to explain. i would say it's in between a mid and workhorse. from initial cutting (30 seconds) i'd say the grind is fully convex right face, with a very tall wide bevel left face but the shoulder smoothed out, it's pretty good. not watanabe good but it cuts nice. spine and choil are eased quite well, but not rounded. the handle, oh man it's #$%#$%#$^**#& sweet! it looks to me like some kind of cherry wood, D shape and already oil treated, perfectly flush/shaped buffalo horn. this is an extremely good knife, i can't believe it only cost $260 us and arrived in 3 days. i will go on and say this is the best buy out there by far.
> too early to really say but this might be replacing my watanabe even. i will comment about the steel once ive used it more and put on stones.



What kind of steel is it clad in?
Thanks


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## bkultra

iron cladding


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## labor of love

Iron(carbon cladding), but Ive already heard from 2 diff members that its very unreactive compared to other iron cladding


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## steelcrimp

Oh man ooohhhh mann the Ku version loooks so sick!!! Plus its a bit cheaper . Was there any kind of tax or expensive shipping from cleancut to the US?


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## bkultra

steelcrimp said:


> Oh man ooohhhh mann the Ku version loooks so sick!!! Plus its a bit cheaper . Was there any kind of tax or expensive shipping from cleancut to the US?



No, it was a wash. They adjusted the price to cover the shipping. In fact I paid less because they sent over a PayPal request and I selected to have my credit card due the conversion (make sure your credit card doesn't have foreign transaction fees)... $245 to my door in my case (kasumi)


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## ashy2classy

steelcrimp said:


> Oh man ooohhhh mann the Ku version loooks so sick!!! Plus its a bit cheaper . Was there any kind of tax or expensive shipping from cleancut to the US?



I thought the same thing but ordered the kasumi version because the grind was thinner. That doesn't mean I won't order the KU version later. :doublethumbsup:


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## steelcrimp

bkultra said:


> No, it was a wash. They adjusted the price to cover the shipping. In fact I paid less because they sent over a PayPal request and I selected to have my credit card due the conversion (make sure your credit card doesn't have foreign transaction fees)... $245 to my door in my case (kasumi)



Ahh I see. Sweet, I probably would have accidentally ordered the knife with my card that charges transaction fees; thanks for the heads up! Should probably get on this thing called PayPal... Haha


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## add

bkultra said:


> No, it was a wash. They adjusted the price to cover the shipping. In fact I paid less because they sent over a PayPal request and I selected to have my credit card due the conversion (make sure your credit card doesn't have foreign transaction fees)... $245 to my door in my case (kasumi)



And.... how about _knife_ impressions?

Thank you.


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## steelcrimp

ashy2classy said:


> I thought the same thing but ordered the kasumi version because the grind was thinner. That doesn't mean I won't order the KU version later. :doublethumbsup:



Is this for sure? 

The handle is not actually Ho-wood is it? Looks very different.

I know everyones been comparing it to Katos and Toyamas, but what about the Kochi? OP called it an in between a middle weight and a workhorse.


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## bkultra

add said:


> And.... how about _knife_ impressions?
> 
> Thank you.



I just ordered today, mine won't be here until Monday. Seller had the item in UPS's hands within 40 mins of my order.


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## panda

Mine comes in at 229g but feels more like 200, it's very nimble. My initial impressions were confirmed with a full shift of usage, this knife hits all of my check points. It feels like two different knives because of the tapering. Front half cuts like my laserish yoshikane and back half is a beast like my Watanabe. Wedges slightly on cold potatoes but thsts not really important to me. The finish is good because food slides right off, I would like to try and mimic this on my other knives. I wanna say it's around 3k polish.

I hope someone tries the KU version, it looks dope.

The handle is not ho, more like cherry.

This is replacing my Watanabe which is going to a friend (sorry guys)
But I will be keeping the hinoura because it's like a fat KS and that has it's place in my kit for when I want extra blade heavy. I asked clean-cut to offer up these mazaki handles for sale so I can put one on my hinoura.


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## kmtyb

I have a Mazaki Kiritsuke 240mm on its way. Will post family picture when it arrives.


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## panda

i took it to aizu for a quick touchup and i'm sad to say i didn't love it. i think the heat treat is a bit too high, there is a sweet spot for white steel that ive only experienced one knife hit right on the money (yoshikane migaki stainless clad - i wish i could find iron clad version of this knife) for reference masamoto ks is too low, and my hinoura is a bit too high with this one being way above. the hardness feels pretty much like watanabe steel which is like 64ish HRC. what this means is that it took quite a bit longer for me to achieve the sharpness i wanted but being white steel it still didnt take as long as other steels. also the feedback on stones is not really there, it doesnt feel good or bad, just ok.


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## Barmoley

Does the knife stay sharper longer than other wh2 knives you've tried? Did you experience any micro chipping with the knife? Or is it just the sharpening effort that is different from the ideal?


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## panda

retention is good, no chipping. strictly talking about sharpening feel.


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## labor of love

panda said:


> i took it to aizu for a quick touchup and i'm sad to say i didn't love it. i think the heat treat is a bit too high, there is a sweet spot for white steel that ive only experienced one knife hit right on the money (yoshikane migaki stainless clad - i wish i could find iron clad version of this knife) for reference masamoto ks is too low, and my hinoura is a bit too high with this one being way above. the hardness feels pretty much like watanabe steel which is like 64ish HRC. what this means is that it took quite a bit longer for me to achieve the sharpness i wanted but being white steel it still didnt take as long as other steels. also the feedback on stones is not really there, it doesnt feel good or bad, just ok.



Yeah, Ive been there before too. I will say that sometimes with brand new knives it helps to run through the full progression for the first sharpening. That ensures that youre sharpening the edge at your own angle, not someone elses. But you know what youre doing. I agree, good ole sanjo wh2 60-61 heat treat is my fave (non honyaki) shirogami heat treat.


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## DitmasPork

panda said:


> i took it to aizu for a quick touchup and i'm sad to say i didn't love it. i think the heat treat is a bit too high, there is a sweet spot for white steel that ive only experienced one knife hit right on the money (yoshikane migaki stainless clad - i wish i could find iron clad version of this knife) for reference masamoto ks is too low, and my hinoura is a bit too high with this one being way above. the hardness feels pretty much like watanabe steel which is like 64ish HRC. what this means is that it took quite a bit longer for me to achieve the sharpness i wanted but being white steel it still didnt take as long as other steels. also the feedback on stones is not really there, it doesnt feel good or bad, just ok.



Panda, besides how it feels on the stones, does steel heat treated too high affect a knifes performance? Whatre the drawbacks of heat treating too high or too low? Ive been collecting j-knives for about 8 years, and still a novice regarding the nuances of heat treatmentsand wouldnt be able to tell which HT is too high/low with the knives I use most (KS, Watanabe, Kato, Kochi)just know they work/cut well for me. How does HT impact youre overall view of the Mazaki? Apologies for so many questions in one post.


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## Bolek

labor of love said:


> Yeah, Ive been there before too. I will say that sometimes with brand new knives it helps to run through the full progression for the first sharpening. That ensures that *youre sharpening the edge at your own angle*, not someone elses. But you know what youre doing. I agree, good ole sanjo wh2 60-61 heat treat is my fave (non honyaki) shirogami heat treat.


I tough that for large bevel you just folow the bevel angle. How do you sharpen a knife like that ?


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## panda

too low = edge retention suffers but easier to sharpen
too high = can be more prone to chip and harder to sharpen but longer lasting edge and can take a lower angle (which i don't utilize because i prefer toughness over ultimate sharpness)

mazaki is not wide bevel, it only appears that way because of the finish. top half of the blade is horizontal polish, bottom half is a hazy finish. but even wide bevels i dont follow the big bevel angle because that would result in 'zero edge' which feels amazing but does not last what so ever plus it takes forever, meaning i still cut my own higher angle into it. think of it like making a micro bevel but in a wide bevel it becomes your primary cutting edge.


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## KimBronnum

I know what you meen, Panda. I had kind of the same feeling when I took it to a finishing stone OOTB. But as LOL wrote I did and with a start at a coarser stone the knives responded really well. Both a gyuto, petty and the mini yanagi. 
- Kim


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## Bolek

I have to learn a lot. I thought that a knife was more prone to chip with low angle and less with high angle.


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## labor of love

@bolek, dont over think it. The only point Im making is that we sharpen edges at angles that we find comfortable. The edge may be sharpened ootb at a slightly different angle than what the user may normally use. Thus a touch up might not be work as well on a knife that you didnt already put your own edge on initially.


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## StonedEdge

Bolek said:


> I have to learn a lot. I thought that a knife was more prone to chip with low angle and less with high angle.


I think you have the correct idea... High bevel angle=more robust, low bevel angle=thinner, unless I'm missing something?


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## DitmasPork

Geez, I bloody hate this thread! I was all set order a knife direct from another maker, then I came across this thread and can't stop thinking about the Mazaki. Very distinct looking gyuto.


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## panda

what was the other knife you were looking at? get them both and sell the one you dont prefer.


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## DitmasPork

panda said:


> what was the other knife you were looking at? get them both and sell the one you dont prefer.


Ive been seriously looking at ordering a Nakaya Heijidrawback being e four month wait. Unfortunately cant afford both at the moment. Have you had a Heiji?


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## panda

i own heiji suji and petty. love the steel, don't love the grind. but when ordering you can ask him to raise the shinogi line which in turn i think improves the grind.

heiji and mazaki are very different, what exactly are you looking for?


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## DitmasPork

panda said:


> i own heiji suji and petty. love the steel, don't love the grind. but when ordering you can ask him to raise the shinogi line which in turn i think improves the grind.
> 
> heiji and mazaki are very different, what exactly are you looking for?



Yes, I know that Heiji and Mazaki are markedly different from what Ive gatherednever have had the opportunity of using either of them. I certainly dont need another gyuto, I want another gyuto, and owe a birthday present to myself. 

Hard to describe exactly what Im looking for, kinda know it when I see it (on KKF).

What Im looking for? Hard to define, elusivesomething about the Heiji and Mazaki catches my attention. Im attracted to gyutos that have a uniqueness/character, well crafted, great performers, mid-weight, not to delicate or precious. Of the gyutos I own, I respond best to gyutos with a bit of heft, and distinctive personalitiesnamely my Kato, KS and Kochi possess those qualities. For instance, my 240 Konosuke Fujiyama is flawlessly produced, well designed, and beautiful gyutobut Ive never used it much, doesnt fit my cooking style, too lightsits in the box it was purchased collecting dust. 

Heiji got my attention because of much that has been said about the carbon steel used; love the defined bevel shoulders on the knife. Theres a rustic beauty to them, a look and design thats distinctly Heiji.

Mazaki caught my eyefrom preizzos post and threadlove the overall design of the knife; the wide spine width at the spine; 250mm length; profile is very different to anything I have, slightly santoku-ish; that high hazy finish is very cool looking. I liked your description of the Mazaki forward half feeling laser-ish, while the back more robust.

Heiji vs Mazaki. Again, I know theyre massively different, but those are the two contenders for my b-day present to myself. 

Pro/Con. When I emailed Nakaya Heiji, he said itll be a four month wait; Mazaki is a mouse click away, but since Im a lefty the d-handles an issue, Cleancut doesn't have lefty d-handles for it (I also don't have tools or space in my NYC apartment to re-handle myself, and Korin ships knives to Japan for re-handling).


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## Eloh

I was just going to say that the mazaki looks pretty similar to my heiji with higher grind. 
From the pictures it looks like the Mazaki has better f&f.


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## bkultra

Quick update of sepcs (approximately)

246X55
225g


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## Gregmega

I'd heard a rumor that the hairline yahiko on cktg was also a Mazaki in disguise. Did a couple screen pulls for side by side with the jns, cleancut, & cktg yahiko and your choil shot from the first post. A lot lines up here. Even the price across the board. Anybody got the inside track?


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## panda

ditmas, also consider mutsumi hinoura it's quite good i especially like the profile, a tall wide bevel with a fantastic KU finish. http://bernal-cutlery.shoplightspeed.com/mutsumi-hinoura-shirogami-240mm-wa-gyuto.html
maybe you could ask them to flip the handle 180deg.

just read up on yahiko, it states he trained under yoshikane where as jns states mazaki trained under kato. specs do look quite similar though. i hope someone tries it and offer impressions. *cough ditmas, it has octagon handle!


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## labor of love

Yahiko is cheaper.


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## Gregmega

Awesome. So many things line up I had to see if anyone else knew. It's really piqued my interest. Especially at the price[emoji33]

Another knife that falls in that category that's blowing my mind is the tsukasa hinoura kasumi that jww put up for sale (250) a while back and just did again... Also a white 2 with similar profile, shinogi looks crazy pronounced from the polish, but in hand it makes a ton of sense, and also doesn't show up so dramatically in the choil. Has a decent middle weight vibe with a decent spine, nice taper, and came out of the box screaming sharp (one of the sharpest ootb in recent memory for sure). Super smooth cutter as well- no real wedging to speak of, glided through about everything I threw at it. We'll see about retention, but I've heard these guys own that w2 and so far I'm super impressed. It's a great feeling when it all lines up.


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## panda

what knife are you referring to? oh, this https://www.japanwoodworker.com/pro...hed-finish-carbon-steel-knife-tsukasa-hinoura


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## Gregmega

labor of love said:


> Yahiko is cheaper.



Cheaper than the cleancut (depending on usd exchange/shipping), same price as the jns. (If that's what you meant by cheaper anyway)


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## Gregmega

panda said:


> what knife are you referring to? oh, this https://www.japanwoodworker.com/pro...hed-finish-carbon-steel-knife-tsukasa-hinoura



That's it. Great value so far. Super happy I pulled that trigger...


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## labor of love

Gregmega said:


> Cheaper than the cleancut (depending on usd exchange/shipping), same price as the jns. (If that's what you meant by cheaper anyway)


 
Yahiko 240mm is $220, mazaki is $300ish shipped (jns).


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## panda

greg, badgertooth sold one of those a while back on bst. i would have totally ordered one if they offered in 240 size.
so i got someone from work to order the yahiko, i will compare side by side when he gets it.


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## Gregmega

labor of love said:


> Yahiko 240mm is $220, mazaki is $300ish shipped (jns).



Ahhhhh, I'm looking at:

210mm, JNS, 198 (ex vat before shipping); 
210mm, CKTG, 200 (before shipping)
Cleancut-waiting on email response...

So I guess my general inspection was just all the things lining up for whether they are one and the same... Sanjo, solo maker, same steel, same profile, similar retail price point pre-shipping, etc...


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## Gregmega

panda said:


> greg, badgertooth sold one of those a while back on bst. i would have totally ordered one if they offered in 240 size.
> so i got someone from work to order the yahiko, i will compare side by side when he gets it.



Gotcha! Can't wait). Nerding XL on this for some weird reason[emoji12]


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## labor of love

Gregmega said:


> Ahhhhh, I'm looking at:
> 
> 210mm, JNS, 198 (ex vat before shipping);
> 210mm, CKTG, 200 (before shipping)
> Cleancut-waiting on email response...
> 
> So I guess my general inspection was just all the things lining up for whether they are one and the same... Sanjo, solo maker, same steel, same profile, similar retail price point pre-shipping, etc...



Price dropped big time over at jns


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## panda

lol, gotta compete!! good for us.


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## Gregmega

Maybe that's also why JWW dumped the price on those tsukasa as well. I'll take it!!


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## labor of love

I guess my point is that yahiko was always cheapo typical cktg bargain bin price($220). JNS mazaki was priced at $315ish. Do you think maxim just decided charge $95 more for an identical knife sold at cktg? Because I dont. Theres likely differences associated with production or material costs somewhere.


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## Gregmega

Point taken. I guess I don't ever recall the price of the mazaki being that high, I always recall it being in the low 200 range, but I also never looked that hard at them until I saw a much better looking finished product that cleancut came out with (maybe that price is compounded in the obviously better finish & handle, and 30$ is a really easy sum to come up with for simple details such as that). Also I've seen plenty of people take liberty with their pricing, and seen markets adjust and react/reflect market fluctuations. I guess I'll hold out until the two are in the same room to see if the rumor will be substantiated (or destroyed).


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## JaVa

Cleancut deducts VAT and then ads shipping which is usually about the same as the VAT.


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## TheCaptain

Trying to decide KU or polished :doublethumbsup:


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## baltazar

TheCaptain said:


> Trying to decide KU or polished :doublethumbsup:



lus1:
Kuro is eye candy!


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## DitmasPork

panda said:


> ditmas, also consider mutsumi hinoura it's quite good i especially like the profile, a tall wide bevel with a fantastic KU finish. http://bernal-cutlery.shoplightspeed.com/mutsumi-hinoura-shirogami-240mm-wa-gyuto.html
> maybe you could ask them to flip the handle 180deg.
> 
> just read up on yahiko, it states he trained under yoshikane where as jns states mazaki trained under kato. specs do look quite similar though. i hope someone tries it and offer impressions. *cough ditmas, it has octagon handle!



Yes, I saw the Yahiko, remarkably similar to the Mazaki, on the go site it's listed at "HRC: 60-61." The octagon hand is no where near as nice as your cherry wood D. The 240 is sold out. Could it be a knife from the same workshop made by another someone else? Or maybe the same maker but slightly different specs/HT, etc.? Personally I'd want one from either CC or JNS for the knife.


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## inzite

DitmasPork said:


> Yes, I saw the Yahiko, remarkably similar to the Mazaki, on the go site it's listed at "HRC: 60-61." The octagon hand is no where near as nice as your cherry wood D. The 240 is sold out. Could it be a knife from the same workshop made by another someone else? Or maybe the same maker but slightly different specs/HT, etc.? Personally I'd want one from either CC or JNS for the knife.



he only recently dropped by kato after maksim approached him for knives....


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## inzite

DitmasPork said:


> Yes, I saw the Yahiko, remarkably similar to the Mazaki, on the go site it's listed at "HRC: 60-61." The octagon hand is no where near as nice as your cherry wood D. The 240 is sold out. Could it be a knife from the same workshop made by another someone else? Or maybe the same maker but slightly different specs/HT, etc.? Personally I'd want one from either CC or JNS for the knife.



back side kanji is exactly the same white 2 in hand chiseled look and front side kanji is same style but different word.


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## inzite

DitmasPork said:


> Yes, I saw the Yahiko, remarkably similar to the Mazaki, on the go site it's listed at "HRC: 60-61." The octagon hand is no where near as nice as your cherry wood D. The 240 is sold out. Could it be a knife from the same workshop made by another someone else? Or maybe the same maker but slightly different specs/HT, etc.? Personally I'd want one from either CC or JNS for the knife.



o yes maksim said mazaki is a one man shop so not likely to be someone else.


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## DitmasPork

inzite said:


> back side kanji is exactly the same white 2 in hand chiseled look and front side kanji is same style but different word.









Can anyone translate the kanji? Mazaki and Yahiko.


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## Gregmega

DitmasPork said:


> Yes, I saw the Yahiko, remarkably similar to the Mazaki, on the go site it's listed at "HRC: 60-61." The octagon hand is no where near as nice as your cherry wood D. The 240 is sold out. Could it be a knife from the same workshop made by another someone else? Or maybe the same maker but slightly different specs/HT, etc.? Personally I'd want one from either CC or JNS for the knife.



I know I'm not crazy on this one. You can make up thirty bucks in handle material and polish in ten minutes. (In regards to the price difference at cleancut)


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## Gregmega

Also I'm not sure what maxsim was charging, nor do I really care, but as of right now he's charging the same basic price as the yahiko, for the smaller models he's even cheaper atm...


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## inzite

DitmasPork said:


> Can anyone translate the kanji? Mazaki and Yahiko.



mazaki on jns, yahiko on cktg i believe.


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## panda

captain - polished version is usually always thinner, but the KU version looks pretty awesome.


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## TheCaptain

Thanks Panda. Ugg. Think it has to be KU.


----------



## panda

do it, be the first!


----------



## daveb

TheCaptain said:


> Thanks Panda. Ugg. Think it has to be KU.



One for you, one for whatshisname.....:angel2:


----------



## TheCaptain

daveb said:


> One for you, one for whatshisname.....:angel2:



You mean DH? Yep, I'm getting a Nakiri for him and a Gyuto for me :whistle: A little treat after all the frigging OT lately.


----------



## labor of love

Maxim addressed the price drop for both munetoshi and mazaki lines on his FB page. It has to do with the exchange rate.


----------



## daveb

DitmasPork said:


> Yes, I saw the Yahiko, remarkably similar to the Mazaki, on the go site it's listed at "HRC: 60-61." The octagon hand is no where near as nice as your cherry wood D. The 240 is sold out. Could it be a knife from the same workshop made by another someone else? Or maybe the same maker but slightly different specs/HT, etc.? Personally I'd want one from either CC or JNS for the knife.



No bashing intended but isn't Mark's business model based on recognizing what's selling then having the same (or other) craftsman make the same knife cheaper through cheaper materials/processes? He's understandably not very transparent about it but his "exclusive" products all seem to be knock-offs.


----------



## fatboylim

DitmasPork said:


> Yes, I know that Heiji and Mazaki are markedly different from what Ive gatherednever have had the opportunity of using either of them. I certainly dont need another gyuto, I want another gyuto, and owe a birthday present to myself.
> 
> Hard to describe exactly what Im looking for, kinda know it when I see it (on KKF).
> 
> What Im looking for? Hard to define, elusivesomething about the Heiji and Mazaki catches my attention. Im attracted to gyutos that have a uniqueness/character, well crafted, great performers, mid-weight, not to delicate or precious. Of the gyutos I own, I respond best to gyutos with a bit of heft, and distinctive personalitiesnamely my Kato, KS and Kochi possess those qualities. For instance, my 240 Konosuke Fujiyama is flawlessly produced, well designed, and beautiful gyutobut Ive never used it much, doesnt fit my cooking style, too lightsits in the box it was purchased collecting dust.
> 
> Heiji got my attention because of much that has been said about the carbon steel used; love the defined bevel shoulders on the knife. Theres a rustic beauty to them, a look and design thats distinctly Heiji.
> 
> Mazaki caught my eyefrom preizzos post and threadlove the overall design of the knife; the wide spine width at the spine; 250mm length; profile is very different to anything I have, slightly santoku-ish; that high hazy finish is very cool looking. I liked your description of the Mazaki forward half feeling laser-ish, while the back more robust.
> 
> Heiji vs Mazaki. Again, I know theyre massively different, but those are the two contenders for my b-day present to myself.
> 
> Pro/Con. When I emailed Nakaya Heiji, he said itll be a four month wait; Mazaki is a mouse click away, but since Im a lefty the d-handles an issue, Cleancut doesn't have lefty d-handles for it (I also don't have tools or space in my NYC apartment to re-handle myself, and Korin ships knives to Japan for re-handling).


I would suggest Doi gyuto if you want a unique, non-delicate knife with good heft. Similar profile to KS with a Kato like food release. It has a more pronounced shoulder than Kato and is awesome at pull cuts and rock chopping.

Even if I sell my Doi, there are 2 others in line for it! Definitely a unique knife.


----------



## chinacats

daveb said:


> No bashing intended but isn't Mark's business model based on recognizing what's selling then having the same (or other) craftsman make the same knife cheaper through cheaper materials/processes? He's understandably not very transparent about it but his "exclusive" products all seem to be knock-offs.



Yeah, but he was able to get the only handful of ks's being made, lol.


----------



## inzite

daveb said:


> No bashing intended but isn't Mark's business model based on recognizing what's selling then having the same (or other) craftsman make the same knife cheaper through cheaper materials/processes? He's understandably not very transparent about it but his "exclusive" products all seem to be knock-offs.



while i know mark looks crazy sometimes in videos or photos and has strange business approaches but he has had the hairline white 2 yahikos before the recent interest in em... just saying...


----------



## chinacats

inzite said:


> while i know mark looks crazy sometimes in videos or photos and has *dirty* business approaches but he has had the hairline white 2 yahikos before the recent interest in em... just saying...



Fixed that for you

I think of Mark like the guy that gives used car salesmen a bad name...


----------



## daveb

Fair enough.


----------



## StonedEdge

Legend has it Mark actually drew the original KS profile on a breakfast napkin after it came to him in a dream the previous night


----------



## Anton

you guys are trippin now


----------



## DitmasPork

daveb said:


> No bashing intended but isn't Mark's business model based on recognizing what's selling then having the same (or other) craftsman make the same knife cheaper through cheaper materials/processes? He's understandably not very transparent about it but his "exclusive" products all seem to be knock-offs.



I am hesitant to get the Yahiko because of that very reasonnot sure how and if it differs from the Mazaki. That said, I've bought a few things from Mark in the past without issue, and found customer service to be pretty good.

It sucks being a lefty in the j-knife market. For me, buying a $260 Mazaki, then adding a new handle for say $60 for a chestnut handle or $150 for a custom takes the knife cost to $320 or $410. Meaning I could get another brand's octagon handled gyuto in the $400 price bracket.


----------



## bkultra

Being these are hand made there seems to be a bit of variance in the specs. Like I stated early in the thread mine is 246x54.7 (Panda's was 253x53 if I recall). The profile is a santoku/gyuto hybrid, rather flat and low tip. The OOB edge was not very good, but this is nothing new. If I had to guess HRC I would say 62ish, perhaps there is some variance here as well? I have been into taller knives lately so I'm very please with this one. I recently picked up a similar spec'ed Toyama and at nearly half the cost I'm very impressed so far.


----------



## panda

i think it's pretty telling that i sold my thinner grind 255mm watanabe after getting mazaki...


----------



## laxdad

DitmasPork said:


> It sucks being a lefty in the j-knife market. For me, buying a $260 Mazaki, then adding a new handle for say $60 for a chestnut handle or $150 for a custom takes the knife cost to $320 or $410. Meaning I could get another brand's octagon handled gyuto in the $400 price bracket.



Would the retailer flip around the D handle for you if requested?

All of the knives at JNS seem to come with the same handle, so I've wondered if Maxim does his own installation. Likewise, I believe that James installs his own "semi-custom" handles at K&S.


----------



## labor of love

DitmasPork said:


> I am hesitant to get the Yahiko because of that very reasonnot sure how and if it differs from the Mazaki. That said, I've bought a few things from Mark in the past without issue, and found customer service to be pretty good.
> 
> It sucks being a lefty in the j-knife market. For me, buying a $260 Mazaki, then adding a new handle for say $60 for a chestnut handle or $150 for a custom takes the knife cost to $320 or $410. Meaning I could get another brand's octagon handled gyuto in the $400 price bracket.


Just for reference my Lefty Marko KS 52100 gyuto was $450 shipped, with exceptional custom handle.


----------



## Gregmega

panda said:


> i think it's pretty telling that i sold my thinner grind 255mm watanabe after getting mazaki...



And this is exactly why I'm putting this one in the front of the line.


----------



## chinacats

Gregmega said:


> And this is exactly why I'm putting this one in the front of the line.



Panda definitely knows his knives... but if you're going to follow him be prepared for something new next month:lol2:


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Sheiiiit! Wish a stainless clad version was available, Id be all over one!


----------



## DitmasPork

laxdad said:


> Would the retailer flip around the D handle for you if requested?
> 
> All of the knives at JNS seem to come with the same handle, so I've wondered if Maxim does his own installation. Likewise, I believe that James installs his own "semi-custom" handles at K&S.



The Mazaki dealer I emailed wouldn't flip the handle.


----------



## labor of love

DitmasPork said:


> The Mazaki dealer I emailed wouldn't flip the handle.



Maxim will install a chestnut octagonal handle for you if you purchase it with the knife, its like an extra $55-60.


----------



## panda

chinacats said:


> Panda definitely knows his knives... but if you're going to follow him be prepared for something new next month:lol2:



i dont actually swap out my kit that often but i have made quite a few changes recently. i do have a new knife coming soon though, a custom mario (the real question here is, will it beat out the legendary ks??)


----------



## chuck239

DitmasPork said:


> It sucks being a lefty in the j-knife market. For me, buying a $260 Mazaki, then adding a new handle for say $60 for a chestnut handle or $150 for a custom takes the knife cost to $320 or $410. Meaning I could get another brand's octagon handled gyuto in the $400 price bracket.



Have you ever used a right handed D handle as a lefty? I dont find it to be an issue with a pinch grip on a gyuto. You can also try to flip the handle yourself. Ive done in a few times before on knives in this ballpark where I didnt want to pay for a handle upgrade. It worked well for me.


----------



## TopperHarley

yeah same here,i have 2 right handed D handles as a lefty and find it pretty good, but i´m curious if i will like a left one better because the right one feels perfekt with pinch grip


----------



## DitmasPork

chuck239 said:


> Have you ever used a right handed D handle as a lefty? I dont find it to be an issue with a pinch grip on a gyuto. You can also try to flip the handle yourself. Ive done in a few times before on knives in this ballpark where I didnt want to pay for a handle upgrade. It worked well for me.



I choose not to use righty d-handles just on principleit's like wearing a shirt inside out. In the $200$300 range, there are lots of lefty friendly, octagon handled gyutos to choose from. To me, no gyuto is so great that I'd buy a righty d-handle knife.

Can't flip the handle myself, no tools or glue in my NYC apartmentbuying them just adds to the cost of the knife.


----------



## DitmasPork

Pandanow that you've had the Mazaki for a week and a half, are there any other observations you've made? Is it developing a patina? How's the edge lasting compared to your Watanabe?


----------



## Barmoley

Principles are important and I am right handed, so take it for what it is, but some rightly positioned D handles are actually more comfortable to use with the left hand for me. I tried it just for the hell of it, because I wanted to give my "defective" (lefty) :rofl2: cousin a present. My cousin agreed that some of the D-handles were very comfortable as a lefty.


----------



## Badgertooth

labor of love said:


> Maxim addressed the price drop for both munetoshi and mazaki lines on his FB page. It has to do with the exchange rate.



Uh huh.


----------



## labor of love

Cleancut started putting fancy octagonal handles on Mazaki knives too, Incase any lefties are interested.


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> Cleancut started putting fancy octagonal handles on Mazaki knives too, Incase any lefties are interested.



Where on the CleanCut site is it??!! Though a simple ho wood oct would suffice.


----------



## bkultra

Poor broken members...


----------



## DitmasPork

bkultra said:


> Poor broken members...
> 
> View attachment 38596



Yeah, they unsuccessfully tried to convert my older brother into a righty. Employers should pay lefties 30% more to account for the lefty markup typical with j-knife makers.


----------



## panda

It's very reactive at the moment like any iron clad, I imagine it will call down once a stable patina is built up. Retention is good, but let's be honest nothing white steel gonna last as long as Watanabe. My previous longest lasting white was munetoshi.


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> Cleancut started putting fancy octagonal handles on Mazaki knives too, Incase any lefties are interested.[(quote
> 
> I love a nice oval handle. The anryu oval handle is easily one of my favorite, if not favorite stock handle.


----------



## panda

yo bk when you gonna pitch in with your impressions on maz??


----------



## Gregmega

Badgertooth said:


> Uh huh.



My thoughts exactly. 

Aaaaaaaannnd Mazaki incoming. Too good of a deal to pass on.


----------



## labor of love

DitmasPork said:


> Where on the CleanCut site is it??!! Though a simple ho wood oct would suffice.



They have a couple on instagram. Probably be on the website soon.


----------



## labor of love

Badgertooth said:


> Uh huh.


So hes lying?


----------



## bkultra

panda said:


> yo bk when you gonna pitch in with your impressions on maz??



I'll post something this weekend, but so far I'm very impressed


----------



## MrHiggins

I'm looking forward to trying out the 180 gyuto I just ordered...


----------



## panda

Gregmega said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> Aaaaaaaannnd Mazaki incoming. Too good of a deal to pass on.



my reasoning for picking one up was not the price although it certainly was a welcome aspect.


----------



## DitmasPork

panda said:


> my reasoning for picking one up was not the price although it certainly was a welcome aspect.



Panda, what was your main reasoning for buying a Mazaki?


----------



## panda

#1 reason was the profile along with its unique set of specs (taller, runs long, pointy tip, plus the thick spine with strong distal taper and thin behind the edge was a HUGE part of it). it basically matched what i would order if i were to get a fully custom.


----------



## DitmasPork

panda said:


> #1 reason was the profile along with its unique set of specs (taller, runs long, pointy tip, plus the thick spine with strong distal taper and thin behind the edge was a HUGE part of it). it basically matched what i would order if i were to get a fully custom.



Cheers! Good reasons. I do remember you saying looks like a fat arse santoku.


----------



## QCDawg

Gregmega said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> Aaaaaaaannnd Mazaki incoming. Too good of a deal to pass on.



What did U get Chef? I have a 270 Otw from JNS. Love my 180 petty. Caught and released a 180 gyuto


----------



## chuck239

DitmasPork said:


> I choose not to use righty d-handles just on principleit's like wearing a shirt inside out. In the $200$300 range, there are lots of lefty friendly, octagon handled gyutos to choose from. To me, no gyuto is so great that I'd buy a righty d-handle knife.
> 
> Can't flip the handle myself, no tools or glue in my NYC apartmentbuying them just adds to the cost of the knife.



Hey, no worries. Not sure its like wearing a shirt inside out but everyone has their own reasons. I just put it out there since I am a lefty and have had a severe gyuto obsession for about 10 years and owned lots of righty d handles. No tools or glue needed for most. Just takes a wood block. I only suggest looking into it because I would have missed out on tons of amazing knives if I only went for octo handles.


----------



## JBroida

chuck239 said:


> Hey, no worries. Not sure its like wearing a shirt inside out but everyone has their own reasons. I just put it out there since I am a lefty and have had a severe gyuto obsession for about 10 years and owned lots of righty d handles. No tools or glue needed for most. Just takes a wood block. I only suggest looking into it because I would have missed out on tons of amazing knives if I only went for octo handles.



wait... chuck... when did you start posting again?


----------



## Gregmega

QCDawg said:


> What did U get Chef? I have a 270 Otw from JNS. Love my 180 petty. Caught and released a 180 gyuto



Dawg!!

Just a 22cm mazaki from cleancut, value looks great, as do the specs (must be something too as all these fine folks are here weighing in on it). I'll let you know my thoughts. Didn't remember you having the 180, glad to hear you like it


----------



## bkultra

So I'm ready to give a few of my initial impressions, but understand Panda and I have very similar tastes (good taste) in knives...

I am drawn to knives with great distal tapering. I prefer a knife with split personalities. The heel should be stout and have a bit of weight. At the same time the tip should be thin and nimble allowing you to do more detailed work. This knife meets that requirement.

As I said in an earlier post this knife has a flat(ish) profile with a fairly low tip. Think Santoku/Gyuto hybrid. They run long and tall, but being hand made there is some variance. My example is nearly 55mm tall. 

The OOB edge is rather uninspiring, but being white steel this is a fast and easy fix. After sharpening the knife, I agree it's pretty hard for white steel (Not Kato hard but not far off). I'm a home cook so I can't speak of edge retention. I've experienced no microchipping or other problems.

In regards to fit and finish, it's about what you should expect for this amount of money. It appears the final grind/shaping is done on stones and there is zero attempt to remove the scratches. It's a very rustic finish similar to Heiji. The spine and choil have been eased but not rounded. 

The cladding is reactive, but no more than you would expect from soft iron. I find most variances of reactivity come from differences in finish and polish. 

The grind is well executed and very even. I did see some slight wedging in items like thick carrots or sweet potatoes. The other end of the thicker geometry allows for decent food separation. I do prefer the grind of my Toyama (my knives a very similarly spec'ed). 

Overall this knife is a bargain at this price point (currently around $250). It's focus is function over form, but it is beautiful in a raw way. It's shows all the marks of being hand made and doesn't attempt to cover them up. The handle on mine (cleancut) is very nice and one of the best stock handles I have seen.


----------



## panda

one task this knife excels at is cutting buffalo mozzarella, every other knife i have just gets clumps of cheese built up on both blade faces and also the pieces all get stuck, not so with mazaki. i even cut length wise into 4, flipped it 90 deg cut into 3, then diced and it stayed put like if you dice an onion really carefully with the right knife it still maintains its shape instead of falling all over the place.

little things like this add up and just speaks to me more than other knives i have tried over the years. its not a master at any one thing, but it does pretty much everything really well and in a pro environment that is a very welcome trait. the function over form really suits me and its the primary reason it has become my favorite (yes i like it more than the ks!!)

word of caution, it takes on a really hideous patina (just as bad as shigs) if you cut a bunch of potatoes with it


----------



## bkultra

panda said:


> (yes i like it more than the ks!!)



It's like I don't even know you anymore


----------



## panda

But my Mario should arrive shortly to give a run.

When ever I have to do bulk amounts intake out a different knife than ks, where as Maz I am comfortable doing anything. When you use this stuff all day comfort is King.

When I'm not busy KS always comes out tho.


----------



## chuck239

JBroida said:


> wait... chuck... when did you start posting again?


I guess this past week. Started looking again a couple months ago but not that I actually have some time, I figured that I could start posting again haha.


----------



## Sleep

panda said:


> It's very reactive at the moment like any iron clad, I imagine it will call down once a stable patina is built up. Retention is good, but let's be honest nothing white steel gonna last as long as Watanabe. My previous longest lasting white was munetoshi.



Interesting that you say the cladding is very reactive. I have the old JNS version and it has the least reactive iron cladding I've seen. Almost semi-stainless. Just takes a light grey patina without any funky colours.

I have one on the way from cleancut and really looking forward to it.


----------



## labor of love

The plot thickens!



Sleep said:


> Interesting that you say the cladding is very reactive. I have the old JNS version and it has the least reactive iron cladding I've seen. Almost semi-stainless. Just takes a light grey patina without any funky colours.
> 
> I have one on the way from cleancut and really looking forward to it.


----------



## labor of love

Minimal reactivity means a lot to me...Id like to hear more about this. Also, Maxim etched some Mazakis and posted them on Instagram, they look nice...I believe he said the had clouds.


----------



## bkultra

labor of love said:


> Minimal reactivity means a lot to me...Id like to hear more about this. Also, Maxim etched some Mazakis and posted them on Instagram, they look nice...I believe he said the had clouds.



It's reactive, certainly not minimally in my experience


----------



## panda

Yeah mines looking really gross right now &#129315;


----------



## bkultra

I live a patina free lifestyle, but otherwise it would be the same


----------



## Sleep

Had it about 6 months. Probably my 3rd most used knife at work. It doesn't get any special treatment. Never removed the patina other than the wide bevel when sharpening. I'm pretty sure there's no lacquer on the blade. Surely it would have disappeared a long time ago. I was hoping the cleancut version would have similar reactivity


----------



## Jville

Sleep said:


> Had it about 6 months. Probably my 3rd most used knife at work. It doesn't get any special treatment. Never removed the patina other than the wide bevel when sharpening. I'm pretty sure there's no lacquer on the blade. Surely it would have disappeared a long time ago. I was hoping the cleancut version would have similar reactivity



That one is the newer grind from jki, right?


----------



## bkultra

Jville said:


> That one is the newer grind from jki, right?



That's the older wide bevel grind from JNS


----------



## QCDawg

Jville said:


> That one is the newer grind from jki, right?



Great user pic!


----------



## panda

Old grind look like a tall heiji, even the profile looks different.


----------



## Sleep

Yeah it's from the first JNS batch. I think the profile is the same as the current version. The angle of the pic just makes it look different. It's the same as this one- http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/35987-Mazaki-gyuto-240


----------



## labor of love

https://instagram.com/p/Bc4S1-XFQMh/


----------



## panda

why does he comment 'it is stainless mazaki'? i think it looks better unetched.


----------



## DitmasPork

panda said:


> Yeah mines looking really gross right now &#129315;



Post a pic of your Maz looking really gross, with ugly patina!


----------



## DitmasPork

Just ordered a 240 Mazaki yesterday from Maximgreat servicehe flipped the d-handle and would look for a knife with lefty friendly grind. Price was also cheaper than CleanCut. Can't wait to receive it!


----------



## DitmasPork

Anyone know kanji? JNS and CC kanji for Mazaki side by side. The JNS kanji has two additional characters.


----------



## KimBronnum

My JNS speciment isnt very reactive either. Its from the new (2nd) grind batch. Id say middle of the road compared to other carbon cladded knives.


----------



## Jville

So there is a new stainless version of mazaki?


----------



## labor of love

Jville said:


> So there is a new stainless version of mazaki?



No.


----------



## KimBronnum

No, he has just changed the grind


----------



## ashy2classy

I have a KU version incoming so hope to have both for the weekend to compare (got an email from UPS about a delay so fingers crossed). The kasumi is killer so far. Love the look of the KU so excited to see it in person.


----------



## Gregmega

Mine is stuck in limbo due to 'operating conditions' in Sweden. Snow and cold be cursed!


----------



## panda

i got to try the yahiko from cktg today and i must say it's actually pretty damn good. it differs from my mazaki in quite a few ways. first of all it's 240x52 and the profile is way more flat i would say a good 2/3rd of the knife is a solid flat spot so it pretty much resembles a long santoku but pointier, very much a push cutter. also the tip is ground thinner, it was a joy brunoising shallots with it. it is more of a laser but with some food release as only the heel area has a thick spine, tapering is even more aggressive on this one.


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> No.



Ok, thanks. I just got confused by his stainless comment, still not sure what that meant.


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> i got to try the yahiko from cktg today and i must say it's actually pretty damn good. it differs from my mazaki in quite a few ways. first of all it's 240x52 and the profile is way more flat i would say a good 2/3rd of the knife is a solid flat spot so it pretty much resembles a long santoku but pointier, very much a push cutter. also the tip is ground thinner, it was a joy brunoising shallots with it. it is more of a laser but with some food release as only the heel area has a thick spine, tapering is even more aggressive on this one.



Are you in a passaround on that one? Is it the hairline or nashiji. If you could only have one of them which would you have between the yahiko and the mazaki. Both these lines have my attention.


----------



## panda

no, i convinced someone from work to buy one(hairline), lol. i prefer the mazaki, i think they are too different to consider it a clone. if i didnt already have a laser-ish knife, i would seriously consider one in 210 length.


----------



## Jville

Smooth move, thanks. I've been leaning towards the mazaki, but always been curious about those yahikos.


----------



## Gregmega

panda said:


> no, i convinced someone from work to buy one(hairline), lol. i prefer the mazaki, i think they are too different to consider it a clone. if i didnt already have a laser-ish knife, i would seriously consider one in 210 length.



Cool. Thanks for (having someone else) taking the plunge. They look so close from the specs and pics that I had about convinced myself (and 10 other people) that they were the same. Good value though, eh?


----------



## baltazar

Jville said:


> Ok, thanks. I just got confused by his stainless comment, still not sure what that meant.



I guess he meant stainless is on the way.......http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/mazaki/


----------



## labor of love

baltazar said:


> I guess he meant stainless is on the way.......http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/mazaki/



Oh snap. Ginsanko??!! Suddenly I care again.


----------



## ryanjams

Have a 180 petty and more recently the 270 suji from jns, the 180 has been on the line with me just about every day since September. Love it. 
There's a Mazaki k tip that just popped up over at aframes.


----------



## Gregmega

That's pretty intriguing actually


----------



## niwaki-boy

Got the 180 petty first and love every damn time I use it. Then got a 210 (220 with New grind) from Maksim &#128077;&#128077; 
Ordered 220ku from cleancut last week (maybe got out before weather &#128591 just cause.
And now this.... ginsanko nonsense :scared4: ... 'oh the humanity'
Next thing... Toyoma type blue comes out 

#hasheffingtag when does it end


----------



## gaijin

Damn... I know that I'm personally affected by the sudden winter here, but that it should affect knife deliveries from CC to all over the world... Oh my. Somebody, do something!


----------



## ashy2classy

baltazar said:


> I guess he meant stainless is on the way.......http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/mazaki/



Saw that too...do I need to buy a third? :curse: :biggrin:


----------



## DitmasPork

Feeling tortured right now. According to the tracker, my 240 Mazaki is on a DHL truck less than five miles away. Wished tracker was more accurate so I could head out and look for the truck!


----------



## QCDawg

Le grande Maz..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vvw5ngHhvZzKZlg82


----------



## Gregmega

QCDawg said:


> Le grande Maz..
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/vvw5ngHhvZzKZlg82



Ooooh lala[emoji7]


----------



## DitmasPork

Just arrived, introduced it to some rapinilove it so far! Maxim flipped the handle to lefty for me, and looked for one with a more neutral grind. Sent out on Tuesday, here today!


----------



## valgard

QCDawg said:


> Le grande Maz..
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/CaYH2tdb2kkGJE4I2



big boy!


----------



## jimbob

This thread is no good for my itchy finger. What size is that ditmas?


----------



## QCDawg

Le grande Maz

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CaYH2tdb2kkGJE4I2


----------



## DitmasPork

jimbob said:


> This thread is no good for my itchy finger. What size is that ditmas?



Heel to tip 245mm, height 53mm.


----------



## DitmasPork

valgard said:


> big boy!



That's a helluva lotta metal! Have you used it yet! You could butcher a moose with that thing. Gorgeous.


----------



## geoff_nocon

Mazaki Kiritsuke gyuto https://aframestokyo.com/tesshu--kiritsuke-wa-gyuto-240mm-white-ii-forged-by-mr-naoki-maz240.html


----------



## DitmasPork

geoff_nocon said:


> Mazaki Kiritsuke gyuto https://aframestokyo.com/tesshu--kiritsuke-wa-gyuto-240mm-white-ii-forged-by-mr-naoki-maz240.html



I saw that the other day! It'll be interesting to see his knives in five years. There's a noticeable evolution from his earlier batch of gyutos.


----------



## StonedEdge

I totally agree. The first batch from JNS looked hideous but reports were they were good cutters. For the price it seems like a decent buy. The level of finish and attention seems to be increasing as time goes by. I also am curious to see Mazaki's work in a few years time (provided the prices are not Kato-esque by then)


----------



## DitmasPork

StonedEdge said:


> I totally agree. The first batch from JNS looked hideous but reports were they were good cutters. For the price it seems like a decent buy. The level of finish and attention seems to be increasing as time goes by. I also am curious to see Mazaki's work in a few years time (provided the prices are not Kato-esque by then)



They will be Kato-esque in price if he stopped production; positive reviews continue; and current owners begin flipping their knives at speculative prices on KKF b/s/t and eBay.

With regard to your comment on fit & finishI feel the valuation would certainly be higher if f&f were at a higher level. 

I got mine mainly because of positive reviews (this thread sealed the deal); good price; love carbon; needed a birthday present to myself; and dig taller knives with thick spines at the handle (as with my Kato and Kochi). Though I may have balked if it were $300+, because of my current finances. All in all, this is a keeper for me.


----------



## Legumez

So did the stainless ones on JNS already sell out or has Maksim not put them up yet?


----------



## StonedEdge

Legumez said:


> So did the stainless ones on JNS already sell out or has Maksim not put them up yet?


I don't think they've been up yet at all


----------



## JaVa

If there's a ginsan gyuto coming I'm game!


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> Oh snap. Ginsanko??!! Suddenly I care again.



What do you like about Ginsanko? I ask because all of my gyutos are carbon, except for threemy Gengetsu semi-stainless, Kagero, and UX10. 

I don't know that much about stainless, and don't have the patience to search through older KKF threads discussing steel characteristics.


----------



## panda

i hate stainless steel, but don't mind ginsanko. nuff said.


----------



## labor of love

Yeah, carbon people like ginsanko for the ease of sharpening compared to other stainless.


----------



## Jville

Big fan of ginsanko! Two of my favorite knives are ginsanko, not sure if its the steel or just the knives. But imsure i like ginsanko. I was actually leaning towards the white though, even after i heard about the coming ginsanko option. But the more i think about the less clear that becomes, especially if they r very reactive. Im curious if the grinds will be the same, or if its just a entirely different grind.


----------



## panda

i would like to point out that the yahiko came in same exact box as my mazaki from cleancut. it is cheaper, has a better tip and is a lot thinner. i am guessing jns cleancut and yahiko line are same maker just made to different specs.


----------



## Gregmega

panda said:


> i would like to point out that the yahiko came in same exact box as my mazaki from cleancut. it is cheaper, has a better tip and is a lot thinner. i am guessing jns cleancut and yahiko line are same maker just made to different specs.



Boom. Back to the scene of the crime. Any further thoughts on that yahiko? Does it stack up to the mazaki performance-wise? And by cheaper, do you mean the f&f, general details, or the handle? Or cost-wise cheaper?

On another note, my mazaki should arrive tomorrow, freed from the icy clutches of Northern Europe to sunny Southern California


----------



## panda

Cost wise


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> Yeah, carbon people like ginsanko for the ease of sharpening compared to other stainless.



Not that I need another knife, Im curious on trying a ginsanko gyuto. Could be a good knife for my yearly Hawaii visitwhere the humidity and salt air rust my knives quickly, and pineapples and citrus stink up carbon, I ususally take carbon and a stainless.


----------



## DitmasPork

panda said:


> i would like to point out that the yahiko came in same exact box as my mazaki from cleancut. it is cheaper, has a better tip and is a lot thinner. i am guessing jns cleancut and yahiko line are same maker just made to different specs.



CleanCut and **togo are sold out of the 240, only sources now are JNS and the 240 Kiritsuke at Aframes. Thought they were the same maker, looks/specs are too similar.


----------



## ashy2classy

My KU/Nashiji arrived today and I'm VERY surprised. It's a 210 vs my 220 kasumi, but this one's thinner than the kasumi. Definitely a keeper by the looks of it. Can't wait to try it tonight.

Some quick photos from my phone...


----------



## StonedEdge

Ashy is that a santoku?


----------



## Eloh

I was kind of interested in the KU, but almost a little too laserish, but still done very nicely it seems. Thanks for the pics


----------



## Barmoley

StonedEdge said:


> Ashy is that a santoku?



The latest pics and ginsanko pics look very santoku like, especially the 210 variant, I wonder if this is the new profile....


----------



## StonedEdge

I kind of like those santoku-ish gyuto profiles with the lower tips and slightly more blade height


----------



## bkultra

If you look back in this thread you will see that I always described mine as a santoku/gyuto hybrid.

But a very MANLY santoku :gun1:


----------



## ashy2classy

StonedEdge said:


> Ashy is that a santoku?



210mm gyuto


----------



## Barmoley

Yes, very manly :viking:. This raises a question, at what point does a gyuto become a santoku and why do most members dislike santokus but love gyutos.


----------



## bkultra

Barmoley said:


> Yes, very manly :viking:. This raises a question, at what point does a gyuto becomes a santoku and why do most members dislike santokus but love gyutos.



Because they are a girl's knife... Honesty it's probably more to do with the shorter length and taller height. Then take away a very useful pointy tip and you have your dislike.


----------



## daveb

Rachel Ray brought them to popularity in the US market. If she's for it, I'm against.


----------



## ashy2classy

The angle of my previous photos exaggerates the "santoku" profile look. While the appearance is still there, the photo below better displays the actual profile of the blade.


----------



## inzite

ashy2classy said:


> The angle of my previous photos exaggerates the "santoku" profile look. While the appearance is still there, the photo below better displays the actual profile of the blade.



That's a santoku! BRO!


----------



## ashy2classy

inzite said:


> That's a santoku! BRO!



Me with my santoku...


----------



## JaVa

Well well well, those ginsanko Mazakis do look intriguing. 

If the price point is similar to the carbons and the design is as good. I just might have to come out my knife buying hiatus eventually and grab one.


----------



## Jville

Oops meant to delete


----------



## Jville

ashy2classy said:


> Me with my santoku...



That's a fabtabulous knive!


----------



## Matus

ashy2classy said:


> The angle of my previous photos exaggerates the "santoku" profile look. While the appearance is still there, the photo below better displays the actual profile of the blade.



This could be turned into 100% gyuto in about 10 minutes on a belt grinder. I would not loose my sleep over it


----------



## XooMG

I like that latest KU offering.


----------



## StonedEdge

ashy2classy said:


> 210mm gyuto


She's definitely a looker, that KU finish is really nice on the eyes. Personally I think the blade profile looks great. Something I would use for sure. Nice pick up.


----------



## panda

man i've been wanting a long santoku from the beginning, just now people are realizing how useful the shape is.


----------



## Gregmega

ashy2classy said:


> The angle of my previous photos exaggerates the "santoku" profile look. While the appearance is still there, the photo below better displays the actual profile of the blade.



I got my 210 migaki in the mail today and I can vouch for the angle being misleading in the photos. It definitely has very much a gyuto feeling in the hand though, the pics can be deceiving. 

The grind is nice, super thin behind the edge. Not as thick as I thought it would be at the spine nor as heavy as I hoped, but overall it has a great feel. It doesn't feel like a 200$ knife. And that handle from cleancut- awesome. Excited to put it to the board. 

Inzite: no BRO it's not a santoku. But it's also not a TF so we're all wondering what you're doing slumming it on this thread[emoji12]


----------



## inzite

Gregmega said:


> I got my 210 migaki in the mail today and I can vouch for the angle being misleading in the photos. It definitely has very much a gyuto feeling in the hand though, the pics can be deceiving.
> 
> The grind is nice, super thin behind the edge. Not as thick as I thought it would be at the spine nor as heavy as I hoped, but overall it has a great feel. It doesn't feel like a 200$ knife. And that handle from cleancut- awesome. Excited to put it to the board.
> 
> Inzite: no BRO it's not a santoku. But it's also not a TF so we're all wondering what you're doing slumming it on this thread[emoji12]



i have always wanted a santoku... a TF. and a mazakiiii


----------



## DitmasPork

Of the knives I use, the Mazaki probably reminds me most of the Kochitall but nimble. The Watanabe gives the impression of being heavier, more robustwhich Ill often grab if dealing with a big pile of kale or daikon. I don't have a scale for actual weight. 

In Kochi and Mazaki shoulders are more noticable, and both are thin behind the edgeshinogi line at the heel is 20mm for Kochi, and 24mm for Mazaki.

All three are of a similar height at the heel:
Watanabe 54mm
Kochi 54mm
Mazaki 53mm


----------



## Chef Doom

DitmasPork said:


> I choose not to use righty d-handles just on principleit's like wearing a shirt inside out. In the $200$300 range, there are lots of lefty friendly, octagon handled gyutos to choose from. To me, no gyuto is so great that I'd buy a righty d-handle knife.
> 
> Can't flip the handle myself, no tools or glue in my NYC apartmentbuying them just adds to the cost of the knife.


But once you get the tools, which is a one time cost, you would be able to rehandle any knife you want in the future with any handl style and wood options you choose. 

I am not a lefty so I can not sympathize with your plight. You can always Relearn to chop with your right hand &#129315;


----------



## Lars

I'm left handed, but some of my favorite handles are right handed d's.. 

Lars


----------



## Danzo

Late to this thread, but can we expect the same quality from the tesshu version as the JNS mazaki?


----------



## labor of love

I love it when people use photos like this. Watanabe and kochi are common faves, so a comparison pic puts Mazaki in perspective. I still really love everything about KU kochis &#128522;



DitmasPork said:


> Of the knives I use, the Mazaki probably reminds me most of the Kochitall but nimble. The Watanabe gives the impression of being heavier, more robustwhich Ill often grab if dealing with a big pile of kale or daikon. I don't have a scale for actual weight.
> 
> In Kochi and Mazaki shoulders are more noticable, and both are thin behind the edgeshinogi line at the heel is 20mm for Kochi, and 24mm for Mazaki.
> 
> All three are of a similar height at the heel:
> Watanabe 54mm
> Kochi 54mm
> Mazaki 53mm


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> I love it when people use photos like this. Watanabe and kochi are common faves, so a comparison pic puts Mazaki in perspective. I still really love everything about KU kochis &#128522;



I find that with comparison photos, it helps to view knives objectively, often noticing nuances that I'll sometimes miss with holding/using a gyuto.


----------



## DitmasPork

Chef Doom said:


> But once you get the tools, which is a one time cost, you would be able to rehandle any knife you want in the future with any handl style and wood options you choose.
> 
> I am not a lefty so I can not sympathize with your plight. You can always Relearn to chop with your right hand &#129315;



I agree with the practicality and usefulness of your commentwould love to be able to get some custom handles and install them myself if it's a straightforward process. I'll just need to do some research as to how it's done. Someone on this thread posted that all I'd need is a block of woodI've no idea what to do with the block; or what adhesive to use; or techniques for installing it straight; how much force to use while removing, without fear of damaging the handle; etc.?

Believe me, there are times I wished I were ambidextrous, just to avoid the standard 30% markup for lefty j-knives. It would be good for dealers to be more accommodating towards lefties, the big j-knife dealer in NYC sends gyutos back to Japan for handle work, and the other Masaki dealer wouldn't flip the handle. 

Fortunately Maxim flipped the handle for me free of charge.


----------



## Jovidah

The issue is that with a lot of knives it's not just a question of flipping the handle, or regrinding the edge. Often the entire blade grind is asymmetrical (for example left face flat, right face convex).


----------



## DitmasPork

Jovidah said:


> The issue is that with a lot of knives it's not just a question of flipping the handle, or regrinding the edge. Often the entire blade grind is asymmetrical (for example left face flat, right face convex).



Yeah, I'm quite aware if thatMaxim looked for and gave me a Mazaki with a more neutral grind. With a couple of my western handle knivesMasahiro and MisonoI've ordered true lefty versions, with lefty geometry.


----------



## Chef Doom

panda said:


> i think it's pretty telling that i sold my thinner grind 255mm watanabe after getting mazaki...



In about 6 months I predict you will type the line in some random Watanabe thread "I should have never have sold it".


----------



## Chef Doom

Gregmega said:


> And this is exactly why I'm putting this one in the front of the line.



I would not be so quick to follow the advice of anyone who can so easily send off his Watanabe without a single tear drop.


----------



## Chef Doom

bkultra said:


> Poor broken members...
> 
> View attachment 38596



Hahahaha, I love help books and guides like these that basically tells a person their genetics are incorrect and require behavior modifications.


----------



## Chef Doom

DitmasPork said:


> Yeah, they unsuccessfully tried to convert my older brother into a righty. Employers should pay lefties 30% more to account for the lefty markup typical with j-knife makers.



Because gullible parents tend to believe any little thing they hear from any quack doctor, psychologist, psychiatrist or any other self proclaimed child expert regarding their first child out of fear of screwing their lives up not realizing that 80%ish of all first born children that have siblings will be screwed up no matter how hard they try. It is always best to take a laissez fair approach.

Begin the violin music.....

"Que Cera Cera......WHAT EVER WILL BEEEEE!!!!!"


----------



## Chef Doom

panda said:


> #1 reason was the profile along with its unique set of specs (taller, runs long, pointy tip, plus the thick spine with strong distal taper and thin behind the edge was a HUGE part of it). it basically matched what i would order if i were to get a fully custom.



But you have to admit the pricing was icing on the cake.


----------



## panda

Chef Doom said:


> In about 6 months I predict you will type the line in some random Watanabe thread "I should have never have sold it".



You're probably right, I already miss it. For example I still use my KS.


----------



## panda

Chef Doom said:


> But you have to admit the pricing was icing on the cake.



Absolutely, the pricing made it a no brainier.


----------



## Gregmega

Chef Doom said:


> I would not be so quick to follow the advice of anyone who can so easily send off his Watanabe without a single tear drop.



Thank you Doom for your kind concern. Under any other circumstance I whole heartedly agree, and in this case a 200$ knife climbed in front of ten other knives that are housing an open window on my iPhone Safari stack. If anything the mazaki sold itself to me. As a matter of a fact it climbed through my phone, entered my CC digits, then pushed me down by the face. I really had no control. Last time that happened it was a knife that started with a Sh- and ended with a -fusa. Damnedest things happen at 2 in the morning.


----------



## labor of love

Do you hear that? The ginsanko 240mm has been calling my name all week.


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> Do you hear that? The ginsanko 240mm has been calling my name all week.



Arent you a carbon guywhy so smitten with Maz ginsanko?


----------



## JaVa

labor of love said:


> Do you hear that? The ginsanko 240mm has been calling my name all week.



Mine too and I hear that way too loud. 

Oh man how I'd love to pick one up, but 350 is just too much for me right now. 
Really hoped it woul've been in the same ball park as the white steel version. 

Maybe I need to wait if it'll show up at CC and see if the same thing happens as did with the carbon kasumi versions :spiteful:


----------



## DitmasPork

JaVa said:


> Mine too and I hear that way too loud.
> 
> Oh man how I'd love to pick one up, but 350 is just too much for me right now.
> Really hoped it woul've been in the same ball park as the white steel version.
> 
> Maybe I need to wait if it'll show up at CC and see if the same thing happens as did with the carbon kasumi versions :spiteful:




It's available! Gotta say, I was surprised by the $349.44 USD price tag, unfortunately beyond my financial reach at the moment. Is ginsanko a very expensive steel to produce? Loving my white #2 Mazaki. 
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/mazaki-stainless-kasumi-gyuto-240mm/


----------



## Eloh

Nah,not really. It's a very simple/basic chrome steel. You can buy knives with Ginsanko steel for a third of the prize.


----------



## StonedEdge

Pricing at JNS has really skyrocketed since the last year. Remembering what I paid for my Itinomonn 210 gyuto a little over 12 months ago and seeing the current pricing for those I almost spat my drink out. Not saying this is usery or anything, just a big, quick price jump.


----------



## labor of love

Eloh said:


> Nah,not really. It's a very simple/basic chrome steel. You can buy knives with Ginsanko steel for a third of the prize.



And you can buy ginsanko knives for almost twice the price. Cost of steel isnt a good indicator of how a knife is priced.


----------



## labor of love

StonedEdge said:


> Pricing at JNS has really skyrocketed since the last year. Remembering what I paid for my Itinomonn 210 gyuto a little over 12 months ago and seeing the current pricing for those I almost spat my drink out. Not saying this is usery or anything, just a big, quick price jump.



Yeah, prices go up overtime. Not unusual.


----------



## StonedEdge

labor of love said:


> Yeah, prices go up overtime. Not unusual.


Indeed


----------



## ashy2classy

Anyone get one of the ginsans?


----------



## Gregmega

labor of love said:


> Yeah, prices go up overtime. Not unusual.



And sometimes prices go down.


----------



## HRC_64

labor of love said:


> Yeah, prices go up overtime. Not unusual.



They always seem to go up 
after the (20% off) sales


----------



## labor of love

Gregmega said:


> And sometimes prices go down.



Sometimes they stay in place for awhile. Its crazy how that works.


----------



## labor of love

Spoiler Alert: what if I told you that a lot of knives that are popular right now will cost more a year from now?


----------



## StonedEdge

labor of love said:


> Spoiler Alert: what if I told you that a lot of knives that are popular right now will cost more a year from now?


I'd say you're correct in your assumption


----------



## niwaki-boy

labor of love said:


> And you can buy ginsanko knives for almost twice the price. Cost of steel isnt a good indicator of how a knife is priced.



So damn true!


----------



## niwaki-boy

Got my ku 220 from cleancut today. My kasumi 220 and 180 petty are happy to see their cousin  Beautiful kuro finish kinda munetoshi-ish ... like! First impression is compared to kasumi version its got a much thicker tang (think kato nikiri) so the weight is shifted back a bit... also like! No cutting yet but its pretty sharp ottb and a nice flat profile selected by Chistofer that I cant wait to use. He lists these as having a ho handle but pretty sure these are japanese oak.


----------



## steelcrimp

niwaki-boy said:


> Got my ku 220 from cleancut today. My kasumi 220 and 180 petty are happy to see their cousin  Beautiful kuro finish kinda munetoshi-ish ... like! First impression is compared to kasumi version its got a much thicker tang (think kato nikiri) so the weight is shifted back a bit... also like! No cutting yet but its pretty sharp ottb and a nice flat profile selected by Chistofer that I cant wait to use. He lists these as having a ho handle but pretty sure these are japanese oak.



220 in both ku and kasumi?? Let me know if you get tired of that ku . Would love to see some comparison photos


----------



## brainsausage

StonedEdge said:


> Pricing at JNS has really skyrocketed since the last year. Remembering what I paid for my Itinomonn 210 gyuto a little over 12 months ago and seeing the current pricing for those I almost spat my drink out. Not saying this is usery or anything, just a big, quick price jump.



Yeah I had the same reaction after taking a year off from checking stock on JNS and then taking a look at the current pricing on Toyama before recommending to a friend. Nearly flipped my damn wig yo.


----------



## Eloh

labor of love said:


> And you can buy ginsanko knives for almost twice the price. Cost of steel isnt a good indicator of how a knife is priced.



Thats obviously true. The question was if ginsan is an expensive steel though wich it is not.


----------



## labor of love

Eloh said:


> Thats obviously true. The question was if ginsan is an expensive steel though wich it is not.



True, but isnt it irrelevant to say ginsanko knives can be bought for a 3rd of the price? Cant the same be said for most hitachi steels? I just wanted to counter the idea that ginsanko is a cheap steel, or atleast cheaper than other j-steels.


----------



## JBroida

labor of love said:


> True, but isnt it irrelevant to say ginsanko knives can be bought for a 3rd of the price? Cant the same be said for most hitachi steels? I just wanted to counter the idea that ginsanko is a cheap steel, or atleast cheaper than other j-steels.



I keep trying to tell people that the material cost of steel is almost a non-issue compared to labor... things that are more time-consuming or difficult to forge, time-consuming or difficult to finish, level of fit and finish, grind consistency, experience of craftsman, etc. play a MUCH bigger role in knife price.


----------



## HRC_64

Maybe its price high for the same reason 
left handed knives are 30% more than right handers.

ie, nothing to do with anything technical,
everything to do with business.


----------



## JBroida

HRC_64 said:


> Ginsanko basically price high for the same reason
> left handed knives are 30% more than right handers.
> 
> nothing to do with anything technical,
> everything to do with business.



This statement is so untrue, i dont even know where to start. There are inexpensive and expensive ginsanko knives, and everything inbetween. And left handed knives generally (but not always) cost more as a function of difficulty of making and increased loss. As a right handed person, have you ever tried to do anything difficult left handed (even things you do normally all day every day)? Its hard. This is from first hand experience both making knives and also watching the craftsmen you guys talk about make knives in person.


----------



## HRC_64

This explains why there are no true 50/50 grinds? 






Only the ambidextrous guy can do them :rofl2:


----------



## JBroida

HRC_64 said:


> This explains why there are no true 50/50 grinds?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only the ambidextrous guy can do them :rofl2:



i get the sarcasm here, but honestly, yeah, this is infact a large part of why you see so much asymmetry. But also, keep in mind that grinding the ura is very different from other double bevel knives. There are some regions that do them intentionally (like seki), but many regions that dont' (like sakai, sanjo, tosa, etc.).


----------



## niwaki-boy

JBroida said:


> This statement is so untrue, i dont even know where to start. There are inexpensive and expensive ginsanko knives, and everything inbetween. And left handed knives generally (but not always) cost more as a function of difficulty of making and increased loss. As a right handed person, have you ever tried to do anything difficult left handed (even things you do normally all day every day)? Its hard. This is from first hand experience both making knives and also watching the craftsmen you guys talk about make knives in person.



Not trying to be a know it all but some of this price difference 'up/down' has to do with commitments made during currency valuation at time of contract.. no?


----------



## DitmasPork

JBroida said:


> i get the sarcasm here, but honestly, yeah, this is infact a large part of why you see so much asymmetry. But also, keep in mind that grinding the ura is very different from other double bevel knives. There are some regions that do them intentionally (like seki), but many regions that dont' (like sakai, sanjo, tosa, etc.).



Thanks for the explanation, I understand the reasoning for lefty price increase on hand forged knives. Dont understand why its an issue with knives like Misono UX10 (I have a lefty version), which are stamped, and dont appear to have much hand work on themor at least that I can see. Do knives like the UX10 utilize a lot of hand work that Im not aware of, is there a technical justification for a lefty premium with UX10s et al?


----------



## panda

this thread is about mazaki just wanted to remind you guys..


----------



## StonedEdge

If something can be sold for more, you can get your ass it will be sold for more. Businesses are operated for a profit. It's as simple as that. Stamped lefty knife with nearly zero hand work will obviously be sold for more than its righty version because the maker and seller know they can get more for it. Simple.


----------



## Eloh

labor of love said:


> True, but isnt it irrelevant to say ginsanko knives can be bought for a 3rd of the price? Cant the same be said for most hitachi steels? I just wanted to counter the idea that ginsanko is a cheap steel, or atleast cheaper than other j-steels.



Sorry for the misunderstanding, but what i was implying with my answer was that material cost shouldnt be a (big) factor why the Mazaki Ginsan costs 50% more compared to the Carbon version. So no disagreement here


----------



## bkultra

Breaking News: Water is wet... and now back to our regular scheduled programming.


----------



## panda

Or maybe it's a special release and/or providing more detailed finish? Why are we even discussing price variation? He can charge what ever he wants.. pretty sure it has nothing to do with cost of steel. This ain't no tamahagane.


----------



## Eloh

panda said:


> Why are we even discussing price variation?



Probably out of curiosity?


----------



## Danzo

bkultra said:


> Breaking News: Water is wet... and now back to our regular scheduled programming.



This. Seems like I posted my question at the wrong time. And since nobody answered it I went ahead and purchased the tesshu k-tip forged by mazaki. If anyone is interested in a little review I can post later


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> Or maybe it's a special release and/or providing more detailed finish? Why are we even discussing price variation? He can charge what ever he wants.. pretty sure it has nothing to do with cost of steel. This ain't no tamahagane.



Actually yeah...Maxim mentioned that the ginsanko line will be made in small batches (3 at a time). Probably more costly to make small batches.


----------



## HRC_64

Or, maybe the smith hates sharpening stainless as much as panda...


----------



## panda

Lol!!! I don't blame him
Danzo absolutely, leave some impressions here.


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> Actually yeah...Maxim mentioned that the ginsanko line will be made in small batches (3 at a time). Probably more costly to make small batches.



Regarding batchesI wonder if Naoki Mazaki's knives will be truly collectible in that they seem to differ greatly by batch? 

There's the CleanCut gyutos that're 253mm in length, mine from Maxim is 245mm long, the earlier JNS batch had a very different grind than the current ones, Aframes has a Kiritsuke, then there's the Yahiko Shirogami Hairline that is arguably from the same maker. Maybe the maker likes doing limited editionsthis is not based on anything, just a thought.


----------



## bkultra

DitmasPork said:


> Regarding batchesI wonder if Naoki Mazaki's knives will be truly collectible in that they seem to differ greatly by batch?
> 
> There's the CleanCut gyutos that're 253mm in length, mine from Maxim is 245mm long, the earlier JNS batch had a very different grind than the current ones, Aframes has a Kiritsuke, then there's the Yahiko Shirogami Hairline that is arguably from the same maker. Maybe the maker likes doing limited editionsthis is not based on anything, just a thought.



My cleancut version is only 246 mm, it's also nearly 55 mm tall. The variances exist regardless of the vendor.


----------



## JaVa

Seems to me he hasn't found his "fit" yet and the end product is still very much a work in progress. 
..Or he'll be the next TF and his profiles and grinds will forever be all over the place.


----------



## panda

If I ended up with BK's and he had mine, I would have hit him up for a swap &#129315;

Mine is proving itself to be a very versatile workhorse. Even cleaned beef tenderloins with it other day. Patina might be ugly as hell but it's stable now and doesn't discolor food. And the edge lasts twice as long as my KS. 

Profile reminds me a little of ittetsu, long santoku but with a more pointy thinly ground tip.


----------



## bkultra

panda said:


> If I ended up with BK's and he had mine, I would have hit him up for a swap &#129315;



It's all about girth not length


----------



## Sleep

Mine arrived. Profile is the same as my JNS 240 Mazaki (old grind). Completely different knives otherwise.

This new one feels a lot like my k tip Toyama. Very similar profile, height, weight, and grind. The Mazaki is a little thinner and the tip is waaaaaay better.

I'm looking forward to putting some miles on this one!


----------



## DitmasPork

My Mazaki blade has a distinct "s" grind, slightly concave above the shoulder, it's been good for food release, reminds me a bit of the Kochi grind.


----------



## Chef Doom

JBroida said:


> I keep trying to tell people that the material cost of steel is almost a non-issue compared to labor... things that are more time-consuming or difficult to forge, time-consuming or difficult to finish, level of fit and finish, grind consistency, experience of craftsman, etc. play a MUCH bigger role in knife price.



It's like people who complain about the price markup of clothes at department stores because the cost of cotton and polyester is so cheap. Never mind the cost for designers, cutters, sewers, machines, shipping, packaging, rent, and several weeks if not months that items can sit waiting for some random person not pay $50 for one pair of jeans because they are not on sale hahaha.

It isn't the steal you are paying for. It's the half a million dollar investment that was sunk into furnaces, forges, stone grinders, belt grinders, and insurance just in case you burn the neighborhood down or someone melts the skin off of their thighs by accident. All to give you kind folks something to play with for 4 months before you put it on BST.


----------



## Chef Doom

panda said:


> this thread is about mazaki just wanted to remind you guys..



Who said you could save your thread from getting hijacked? Hahaha


----------



## Chef Doom

bkultra said:


> Breaking News: Water is wet... and now back to our regular scheduled programming.



Fisherman: What is it like living in the water?

Salmon: It's cool, plenty of space. Suicide rate is through the roof. Might be because it stays wet all the time.


Hahahaha, okay, only I am willing to laugh at this but with the recent mass sea life death on the beaches in Europe these past weeks...I couldn't help myself.


----------



## Chef Doom

Eloh said:


> Probably out of curiosity?



I would of also had accepted:

"Because we can you jive turkey!"


----------



## Chef Doom

bkultra said:


> It's all about girth not length



But you also have to know how to work the angles. It helps to have a nimble tip.


----------



## Gregmega

Chef Doom said:


> But you also have to know how to work the angles. It helps to have a nimble tip.



Like a mazaki


----------



## mattador

So whats the consensus on the heat treat of these knives? Harder than average shirogami?


----------



## bkultra

mattador said:


> So whats the consensus on the heat treat of these knives? Harder than average shirogami?



Yes, 63-64 i believe


----------



## ashy2classy

I'm absolutely loving my 220 kasumi and 210 KU. Both are in my list of favorites at the moment. Handle, F&F, feel in the hand, performance - all top notch. Great value for the money, IMO!


----------



## Gregmega

Has anybody used the suji by chance??


----------



## ryanjams

I have the 270, not used it too extensively but it's stiff and ~40mm tall as listed with nice taper and grind. Nice on raw and crusty proteins alike, and can double down on general veg prep better than other sujis I've used. I'm a fan


----------



## Gregmega

Cool, thank you. Good to know.


----------



## ob-gym

Mazaki vs. Wakui - anyone have both to compare?

Lots in common with these 2 smiths
- Both trained at Yoshikane before going independent 
- White steel specialists, with harder than average HT 
- Wicked distal taper 
- Great performance for price

Very happy with my Wakui, but this Mazaki hype is too real


----------



## Danzo

So here is the k-tip mazaki from A-frames. Its a tesshu knife but forged by mazaki. Cant know for sure since I dont have a mazaki from JNS or cleancut, but Im going to say by the looks of the hazy finish and shinogi line its the same quality and craftsmanship as the others. Im not going to lie, the only reason why I jumped on this one is because I think k-tips are sexy. Correct me if Im wrong but k-tips tend to have a flatter profile to them, this one is quite flat, very little belly, but also very little dead flat. Theres a 2 inch section towards the heel thats dead flat, then a gentle curve to the tip; and a slight back belly 1/2 inch from be heel. 

248mm edge length 
55mm heel height
225 grams. Heavy towards the front.
The handle is HUGE. Looks good since its such a big blade but its too big for my little hands. Ill swap it out with something Ill make myself which should make the knife heavier and more balanced at the heel. 

Its pretty flat, the k-tip portion is quite large. Would probably look like santoku if it was rounded









Super chunky 4.5mm into the handle, tapers to 3mm right above the heel, 2mm half way down the blade, and 1mm right at the tip junction





Also has a slight s thing going on, cant speak to food release yet since all I cut was scallions, but Ill try some potatoes and carrots tomorrow





More to come tomorrow if interested. Also cant beat that price. 215 shipped


----------



## DitmasPork

Anyone get the Ginsanko Mazaki? Would like to here their observations. Thought Labor of Love expressed interest in the Ginsanko Maz.


----------



## labor of love

DitmasPork said:


> Anyone get the Ginsanko Mazaki? Would like to here their observations. Though Labor of Love expressed interest in the Ginsanko Maz.



Yeah, I really like the looks of the ginsanko maz Petty. But its pretty close in price to the ginrei Petty. Still deciding which way to go.


----------



## Marcelo Amaral

panda said:


> But my Mario should arrive shortly to give a run.



So, how do you like your Mario, Panda?


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> Yeah, I really like the looks of the ginsanko maz Petty. But its pretty close in price to the ginrei Petty. Still deciding which way to go.





I see what you mean, less than $20 difference on the kurouchi. Get the Ginrei, they look gorgeous, it's 52100, comes with an edge guard and bag, and I've not read any reviews on them!

MAZAKI STAINLESS KASUMI PETTY 150MM
$279,11 (inc VAT)
$223,29 (exc VAT)

vs

GINREI 52100 STAINLESS CLAD CARBON 150MM WA-PETTY
$ 320.00
GINREI 52100 KUROUCHI 150MM WA-PETTY
$ 240.00


----------



## chinacats

Danzo said:


> So here is the k-tip mazaki from A-frames. Its a tesshu knife but forged by mazaki. Cant know for sure since I dont have a mazaki from JNS or cleancut, but Im going to say by the looks of the hazy finish and shinogi line its the same quality and craftsmanship as the others. Im not going to lie, the only reason why I jumped on this one is because I think k-tips are sexy. Correct me if Im wrong but k-tips tend to have a flatter profile to them, this one is quite flat, very little belly, but also very little dead flat. Theres a 2 inch section towards the heel thats dead flat, then a gentle curve to the tip; and a slight back belly 1/2 inch from be heel.
> 
> 248mm edge length
> 55mm heel height
> 225 grams. Heavy towards the front.
> The handle is HUGE. Looks good since its such a big blade but its too big for my little hands. Ill swap it out with something Ill make myself which should make the knife heavier and more balanced at the heel.
> 
> Its pretty flat, the k-tip portion is quite large. Would probably look like santoku if it was rounded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Super chunky 4.5mm into the handle, tapers to 3mm right above the heel, 2mm half way down the blade, and 1mm right at the tip junction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also has a slight s thing going on, cant speak to food release yet since all I cut was scallions, but Ill try some potatoes and carrots tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More to come tomorrow if interested. Also cant beat that price. 215 shipped



Love the taper on that...and the profile...and the price!


----------



## Jville

Has anybody noticed differences in grind between the jns and cleancut version.


----------



## DitmasPork

Jville said:


> Has anybody noticed differences in grind between the jns and cleancut version.



It would be a luxury to be able to get the same gyutos from both vendors to compare! More than happy with my JNS version.


----------



## panda

I can say clean-cut mazaki cuts way better than my Mario


----------



## DitmasPork

panda said:


> I can say clean-cut mazaki cuts way better than my Mario



BTW, have you sharpened the large bevel of your mazaki yet? Thinking of doing that this weekend. Would like to try and smooth it out with a 6000 and finger stones. It's kind of a rustic finish right now, not that there's anything wrong with that. 

Also, curious to see a pic of your new Mario.


----------



## DitmasPork

I like being able to put a face to a knifehere's a video of Naoki Mazaki forging a blade:
[video=youtube;xUxi7ranPLg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUxi7ranPLg[/video]

Also, just noticed a hankotsu
https://www.aframestokyo.com/tesshu-wa-hankotsu-knife-140mm-white-ii-steel-forged-by-mr-maz140.html

and 156mm petty by him at Aframesgood price ($153) IMO (wasn't Labor of Love considering a petty?):
https://www.aframestokyo.com/tesshu...white-ii-steel-blade-forged-by-mr-maz150.html


----------



## Jville

Finally pulled the trigger on one. 240 kasumi white gyuto jns. Ive been stalking them for quite some time.


----------



## panda

this is the current price/performance champ by a long shot. i am looking forward to trying a kippington special as well.


----------



## niwaki-boy

Thanks for posting the video DitmasPork!! 

Spot on panda.. really enjoying them so far.


----------



## SolidSnake03

Hey guys,

Interested in possibly grabbing one of these in the Ktip form from aframes, can anyone comment on how big these feel for their size? Reason I'm asking is I'm a bit torn between the 210 and 240mm and given that the prices are close it would more come down to feel. Is this a knife that feels big for its size like a Kramer, Watanabe or some of the Shiro Kamo stuff or is this more Konosuke like in that all the sizes feel more nimble/easy to handle than you would guess based on size alone? I'm thinking these are going to feel on the bigger side but wanted some perspective on it, thanks!


----------



## Danzo

The k-tip feels huge. Feels bigger than a Toyama, but more nimble since its lighter. 

I should also state I have the 240.


----------



## panda

i'd be all over the ginsanko version if it were same price, especially if the nashiji KU finish is available.


----------



## Viggetorr

Can anybody comment on the "confidence level" of their w#2 240 kasumi gyuto? Can it handle bigger/harder ingredients? Would it be suitable as "the heavy knife" in the collection?


----------



## SolidSnake03

Good to know that about the Mazaki feeling huge, might have to go with the 210mm then....


----------



## YG420

Maxim just posted this:

[video]https://youtu.be/kX-zW9-QbuU[/video]


----------



## MrHiggins

Awesome video. Thanks for posting. I am still blown away by the performance-to-value ratio of my Mazaki kasumi 240 from JNS. After watching that video, I actually feel bad that I paid so little for all that guy's hard work and craftmenship. I might have to buy a KU version, just to help the dude out!


----------



## YG420

Hahah!


----------



## YG420

It kinda looks like Maxim mightve tweaked the profile a bit to more of a western styled knife, almost like a standard kato vs the workhorse version. If thats true then i might have to try out the new profile!


----------



## labor of love

YG420 said:


> It kinda looks like Maxim mightve tweaked the profile a bit to more of a western styled knife, almost like a standard kato vs the workhorse version. If thats true then i might have to try out the new profile!



This new profile youre talking about, is it in the video somewhere?


----------



## YG420

Yea, to me it looks a bit less santoku-ish, but i could be mistaking.


----------



## bkultra

Messing with the profile would be a huge mistake, but I also prefer the standard Kato profile (owned 2 WH and a kikuryu).


----------



## labor of love

Yeah standard kato profile is nice looking, if you can find one that isnt too narrow.


----------



## panda

YG420 said:


> Maxim just posted this:
> 
> [video]https://youtu.be/kX-zW9-QbuU[/video]



really cool vid, so much work goes into hand making a knife!!


----------



## MrHiggins

Has anyone used/compared the KU and kasumi gyutos? Any big differences in grind/profile/weight? I'm almost positive I'll pick up the clean-cut 270 KU suji and 250 gyuto, and I'd love to hear how they compare.


----------



## labor of love

MrHiggins said:


> Has anyone used/compared the KU and kasumi gyutos? Any big differences in grind/profile/weight? I'm almost positive I'll pick up the clean-cut 270 KU suji and 250 gyuto, and I'd love to hear how they compare.



Theres been a little discussion about this on instagram. Cleancut states that the KU might be a tad thicker and heavier generally speaking. But some guys that own both have said the KU can be the thinner of the 2. So theres some variance. If you know what youre looking for in terms of thinness reach out to cleancut and see if they have something close to what youre looking for.


----------



## labor of love

YG420 said:


> Maxim just posted this:
> 
> [video]https://youtu.be/kX-zW9-QbuU[/video]



Thanks for sharing. Really cool video. Did anybody else notice right after the 6 minute point heat treating are made in charcoal that is only made for JNS?


----------



## YG420

Yea i took note of that


----------



## Barmoley

I was wondering about that too. What does that actually mean...


----------



## panda

marketing nonsense?


----------



## labor of love

Barmoley said:


> I was wondering about that too. What does that actually mean...



JNS mazaki may involve a specific charcoal used exclusively for JNS Mazaki knives. Thats what Im guessing.


----------



## Barmoley

Right, but I am leaning toward Panda's way of thinking, what would the type of charcoal have to do with anything. I could understand if they meant special heat treat for JNS...


----------



## Matus

Barmoley said:


> Right, but I am leaning toward Panda's way of thinking, what would the type of charcoal have to do with anything. I could understand if they meant special heat treat for JNS...



Using charcoal may allow (depending on the conditions - mainly on relative CO and CO2 composition of the gases in the fire) to increase (or decrease) the carbon content of the blade. In other words it may help to limit the decarburization. More details in Verhoeven


----------



## HRC_64

wait...why would mazaki need 
an outsider to teach him 
how to heat treat 
knives?


----------



## YG420

Maybe he learned it from studying under Kato? His techniques remind me of the JNS Kato vid.


----------



## panda

what ever he is doing, sure looks to be doing a great job  i'm over here waiting for mazhonyaki in nashiji KU to happen.


----------



## ashy2classy

YG420 said:


> It kinda looks like Maxim mightve tweaked the profile a bit to more of a western styled knife, almost like a standard kato vs the workhorse version. If thats true then i might have to try out the new profile!


Yo if he starts putting out blades with a slightly higher tip I'm gonna have to buy 1 or 4 more...lol!


----------



## Barmoley

I like a slightly higher tip too, but I haven't used any of his knives and people who have seem happy with them. Still I think I would already have one if the tip was higher and/or ginsanko was cheaper. He seems to be doing a good job in any case.


----------



## panda

NO!! ren higher tip or call it 'western style' and not mess with regular line


----------



## niwaki-boy

The profile, as is, is one of the main attractions for me. It becomes part of a trifecta that with grind and steel makes these great. Why not a toyoma if a rising tip is important? On another note has anyone seen how thin that ginsan 210 nikiri is!?!


----------



## labor of love

I like the new profile and tip. But the Older one is cool too. Hope they can just coexist.


----------



## niwaki-boy

HRC_64 said:


> wait...why would mazaki need
> an outsider to teach him
> how to heat treat
> knives?



Why would somebody like Jordan Spieth use a swing coach?


----------



## niwaki-boy

labor of love said:


> I like the new profile and tip. But the Older one is cool too. Hope they can just coexist.



Ha... just watched the video, gotta kinda agree that profile in the vid sure does look kato-esque. I do have a soft spot for that but hope it doesnt completely morph into that. If he does the two separately, Mazaki San is gonna be a hella busy boy for sure. Im still staggered that this is a one man shop, the pounding to the kanji, with such consistent quality and low price to boot. So impressive.


----------



## labor of love

Totally worthless comment but I love that he had an watanabe AI 1k sitting in the background.


----------



## fatboylim

HRC_64 said:


> wait...why would mazaki need
> an outsider to teach him
> how to heat treat
> knives?


More likely an extra cost to produce than a new technique for Mazaki.


----------



## hentaides

Hi guys, looking to buy a mazaki 240mm soon but do have a few concerns.

I am left handed so is it only the handle that makes a differences for lefty? The bevel should be 50/50 right?

I am a newbie in Jknives. What happens if the bevel is 70/50 for righty? Is it just the food release?

Lastly, the stainless is more expensive. I always thought carbon is more expensive? How come its the other way round for mazaki?


----------



## 42537703

Stainless Steel is harder to forge generally. That's probably why the gin3 is more expensive than his white 2.

I don't think there is a thing for 70/50 grind. Do you mean 70/30 grind?


----------



## DitmasPork

hentaides said:


> Hi guys, looking to buy a mazaki 240mm soon but do have a few concerns.
> 
> I am left handed so is it only the handle that makes a differences for lefty? The bevel should be 50/50 right?
> 
> I am a newbie in Jknives. What happens if the bevel is 70/50 for righty? Is it just the food release?
> 
> Lastly, the stainless is more expensive. I always thought carbon is more expensive? How come its the other way round for mazaki?



Im also a lefty, Maxim looked for a Mazaki with a more neutral grind, and flipped the d-handle. Just reach out and chat with your dealer. Wonderful knifethough it did struggle with cabbage cores, no matter.


----------



## hentaides

Cool. A frames is having a discount with mazaki 240. Not sure how much cheaper it is converting to AUD. I think his site is in USD but still cheaper I believe. 

And yes I meant 70/30. Lol retarded of me. As u can see, knife newb haha

Edited: Its kiritsuke haha not a fan. Sad!! Hope JNS have a discount soon!!


----------



## Viggetorr

DitmasPork said:


> Wonderful knifethough it did struggle with cabbage cores, no matter.



Do you think it generally has a problem with hard ingredients? I'm thinking about getting one (and hope it will be my only) 240 gyuto, and would therefore like to be able to handle denser ingredients as my other knives are fairly light weight.


----------



## Forsberg

Thank you for making me want to spend some money that I don't have... 

I own a Tanaka 210 and a watanabe 240, bouth Gyotos.
Would any of you with this lineup find the need for a santoku, or do i feel you hating on the santoku?

i never owned a santoku, so i can´t really tell if its nifty and a good go-to knife or ill just hate that it is not a gyoto...


----------



## chinacats

Forsberg said:


> Thank you for making me want to spend some money that I don't have...
> 
> I own a Tanaka 210 and a watanabe 240, bouth Gyotos.
> Would any of you with this lineup find the need for a santoku, or do i feel you hating on the santoku?
> 
> i never owned a santoku, so i can´t really tell if its nifty and a good go-to knife or ill just hate that it is not a gyoto...



I always felt like my Wat gyuto was really like an XL santoku.


----------



## Thorndahl88

Do u guys have some insider knowledge on when Maxim holds discounts again, or maybe just a slight idea. I really want everything from mazaki [emoji857][emoji849]


----------



## Jovidah

Forsberg said:


> Thank you for making me want to spend some money that I don't have...
> 
> I own a Tanaka 210 and a watanabe 240, bouth Gyotos.
> Would any of you with this lineup find the need for a santoku, or do i feel you hating on the santoku?
> 
> i never owned a santoku, so i can´t really tell if its nifty and a good go-to knife or ill just hate that it is not a gyoto...



I think it's personal preference; some love them, some hate them. Personally I could never really get to love them; prefer it a bit longer and with a proper tip. But only one way to find out...


----------



## panda

looking at the new profile pics from JNS, i much prefer the original one. the idea of tall AND pointy sounds awesome, but in practice not so optimal. tall and a steeper slope downward at the tip with a low nose point meaning not much curve up is santoku-esque and works great. for pointy tip, 49-50mm really is the ideal height.


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> looking at the new profile pics from JNS, i much prefer the original one. the idea of tall AND pointy sounds awesome, but in practice not so optimal. tall and a steeper slope downward at the tip with a low nose point meaning not much curve up is santoku-esque and works great. for pointy tip, 49-50mm really is the ideal height.



How similiar was the yahiko nashiji profile that you tried or better stated; what was the differences from the mazaki?


----------



## panda

Yahiko was shorter slightly pointier same height, yahiko was the hairline version not nashiji. Had even more aggressive tapering, too light for my taste.


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> Yahiko was shorter slightly pointier same height, yahiko was the hairline version not nashiji. Had even more aggressive tapering, too light for my taste.



thanks


----------



## daveb

Thorndahl88 said:


> Do u guys have some insider knowledge on when Maxim holds discounts again, or maybe just a slight idea. I really want everything from mazaki [emoji857][emoji849]



Maxim seems to offer a discount whenever he goes on holiday. And he goes on holiday a lot.:biggrin:

But if you have something specific you want, it's probably better to bite the bullet and go full retail. When stuff goes on sale there's always a feeding frenzy.


----------



## Thorndahl88

daveb said:


> Maxim seems to offer a discount whenever he goes on holiday. And he goes on holiday a lot.:biggrin:
> 
> But if you have something specific you want, it's probably better to bite the bullet and go full retail. When stuff goes on sale there's always a feeding frenzy.



You are so right, so i bought a toyama 240 workh. and mazaki pairing 95 mm and mazakipetty 180 mm. 
i will now throw away my credit card, and try not to buy a new knife, unless i need a yanagiba :scratchhead:


----------



## MrHiggins

My bank account (and wife?) hate me. I just pulled the trigger on a 250 KU gyuto and a 270 KU suji from CleanCut. 

I want to compare the KU to my kasumi 240, and the suji to my 270 Toyama. And, heck, I just wanted to support the young up-and-comer, who seems to be doing excellent and hard work.


----------



## labor of love

I would love to hear how the sujis compare!



MrHiggins said:


> My bank account (and wife?) hate me. I just pulled the trigger on a 250 KU gyuto and a 270 KU suji from CleanCut.
> 
> I want to compare the KU to my kasumi 240, and the suji to my 270 Toyama. And, heck, I just wanted to support the young up-and-comer, who seems to be doing excellent and hard work.


----------



## tgfencer

Ugh, this thread needs to die for the sake of my sanity. So...how does these things compare to Toyama/Watanabe/Kato in terms of heft? Apologies if this has been asked already, I went back and looked but its alot to go through and I may have missed it.


----------



## bkultra

Mine is identical in terms of weight to my Toyama, 229g... but they carry that weight differently. The Mazaki has a stout heel but thins out to a nearly laser like knife for the front 1/3rd of the blade.


----------



## tgfencer

bkultra said:


> Mine is identical in terms of weight to my Toyama, 229g... but they carry that weight differently. The Mazaki has a stout heel but thins out to a nearly laser like knife for the front 1/3rd of the blade.



Much obliged. But also not, because that sounds rather appealing.


----------



## MrHiggins

bkultra said:


> Mine is identical in terms of weight to my Toyama, 229g... but they carry that weight differently. The Mazaki has a stout heel but thins out to a nearly laser like knife for the front 1/3rd of the blade.


Yeah: The massive distal taper on my 240, combined with the high grind, make for a very thin tip while simultaneously allowing for a robust heel section and a nice stiff blade. It's a very fun and confidence-inspiring knife.


----------



## daveb

Did somebody say Suji?


----------



## Jville

bkultra said:


> Mine is identical in terms of weight to my Toyama, 229g... but they carry that weight differently. The Mazaki has a stout heel but thins out to a nearly laser like knife for the front 1/3rd of the blade.



Is there one that u prefer overall? Obviously, it can be just as simple as they r different and Excel at different things, but sometimes if pushed to only own one someone will have an overall preference. I'll admit I really want a Toyama 240. I have a mazaki 240 kasumi and a Toyama 210 arriving supposedly tomorrow. And I really just can't spend or really shouldn't spend more on getting a 240 now. I'm somewhat looking to ease the disappointment of not having the 240, but also sincerely interested in the overall comparison.


----------



## K813zra

Forsberg said:


> Thank you for making me want to spend some money that I don't have...
> 
> I own a Tanaka 210 and a watanabe 240, bouth Gyotos.
> Would any of you with this lineup find the need for a santoku, or do i feel you hating on the santoku?
> 
> i never owned a santoku, so i can´t really tell if its nifty and a good go-to knife or ill just hate that it is not a gyoto...



I use a santoku like a petty/utility. When I need to cut up a single shallot and a few cloves of garlic, for example. I like the heel height better than a petty for board work.


----------



## bkultra

Jville said:


> Is there one that u prefer overall? Obviously, it can be just as simple as they r different and Excel at different things, but sometimes if pushed to only own one someone will have an overall preference. I'll admit I really want a Toyama 240. I have a mazaki 240 kasumi and a Toyama 210 arriving supposedly tomorrow. And I really just can't spend or really shouldn't spend more on getting a 240 now. I'm somewhat looking to ease the disappointment of not having the 240, but also sincerely interested in the overall comparison.



I think the Mazaki is the better deal at it's current price ($250ish for a 240mm). Toyama won't be making knives for much longer so if you want one I would recommend buying one of his knives first.


----------



## MrHiggins

daveb said:


> Did somebody say Suji?


I'll let you know how I like the 270 KU when I get it... I'll be hard to knock out my Toyama, though.


----------



## DitmasPork

Anyone heard of Japana in the UK? I just noticed that they're selling Mazaki knives:
https://japana.uk/tag/naoki-mazaki/


----------



## Jovidah

Even if they are... I have a hard time getting enthusiastic over that shop. Their prices are even a lot higher than JNS - a store that's already on the pricey side. And when they sell a knife labelled "Naoki Mazaki Deba 150mm Shirogami 2 Kasumi Ginsanko" that leaves me questioning if they themselves really know what they're selling...


----------



## Jville

bkultra said:


> I think the Mazaki is the better deal at it's current price ($250ish for a 240mm). Toyama won't be making knives for much longer so if you want one I would recommend buying one of his knives first.



yeah, i heard he supposed to be retiring sometime in the near future. I went ahead and overspent... someone said here "You can always make more money, but you won't always be able to buy a Toyama." Sorry about the derailing, of course, this thread is about mazaki. I will speak no more of toyama, unless related.


----------



## Gregmega

tgfencer said:


> Ugh, this thread needs to die for the sake of my sanity. So...how does these things compare to Toyama/Watanabe/Kato in terms of heft? Apologies if this has been asked already, I went back and looked but its alot to go through and I may have missed it.



The mazaki is surprisingly nimble for how beefy the spine is coming out of the handle. It's got a deceptively light feel (way lighter than Toyama esp at the heel) with a big punch, like a pretty young lady with nasty left hook. And soooo thin behind the edge. As a buddy said recently, a perfect blend of brawn & agility. And the nuanced grind is as good as some knives that I've paid 2-3x for. This guy is a champ.


----------



## tgfencer

Damn I procrastinated long enough that everybody is out of 240's at the moment. Well I'm a 270 man anyway at heart....or maybe I'll just wait til they start showing up on BST for $400....too soon? :wink: Someone needs to make a pot-stirrer emoji for the forum.

All joking aside, I appreciate the input Greg.


----------



## panda

as long as the pricing stays below 300 he's going to sell a TON of knives. it's truly a gangsta arse knife.


----------



## MrHiggins

Gregmega said:


> The mazaki is surprisingly nimble for how beefy the spine is coming out of the handle. It's got a deceptively light feel (way lighter than Toyama esp at the heel) with a big punch, like a pretty young lady with nasty left hook. And soooo thin behind the edge. As a buddy said recently, a perfect blend of brawn & agility. And the nuanced grind is as good as some knives that I've paid 2-3x for. This guy is a champ.


Through fate and the gods (blessed be them!), I got my 240 kasumi for a clean $160, shiped. Of my (too many) gyuto, it's my go-to, even though I wish I wanted to reach for my more expensive knives. 

It's just a spectacular knife for the exact reasons spelled out by Gregmega. (Plus the fact that the steel gets as sharp as anything I own, except, maybe, for the Kochi V2).

Can't wait to try the KU version when it gets here from Sweden...


----------



## Gregmega

Oh man, Kochi can do no wrong for sure. And it's funny you say that, because if I was forced to make a comparison I maaaaayyyybe would call kochi for that finesse between spine and edge. So dang good. But for sure, panda, gangsta arse is pretty much what maz is producing. So much damn love for this young slayer. May he continue capturing magic.


----------



## Gregmega

Heyyoo I just remembered the Yahiko hairline. I know we brought it up early on in this thread, but has anyone had the chance to get around one of these?


----------



## panda

i've handled one, read previous responses from me.


----------



## MrHiggins

Gregmega said:


> Oh man, Kochi can do no wrong for sure. And it's funny you say that, because if I was forced to make a comparison I maaaaayyyybe would call kochi for that finesse between spine and edge. So dang good. But for sure, panda, gangsta arse is pretty much what maz is producing. So much damn love for this young slayer. May he continue capturing magic.


I'm Team Kochi, for sure. Own the 180 V2 nakiri and V2 210 gyuto. Love them. Glad I don't own the the 240, too, just so my Mazaki doesn't have it as competition. But I'm with you: thin behind the edge + thick spine = great knife.


----------



## DitmasPork

Jovidah said:


> Even if they are... I have a hard time getting enthusiastic over that shop. Their prices are even a lot higher than JNS - a store that's already on the pricey side. And when they sell a knife labelled "Naoki Mazaki Deba 150mm Shirogami 2 Kasumi Ginsanko" that leaves me questioning if they themselves really know what they're selling...



A typo on their websitedescription says ginsanko. I've not bought anything from them, but would be happy to support them. Like that it's a J-knife shop run by three women. Best of luck to them!


----------



## tgfencer

Nabbed a 240 from JNS. I blame each and every one of you for convincing me to spend money. Definitely not at all due to my lack of self control.


----------



## Gregmega

You're gonna love it. Everyone in this thread that has taken the plunge is high-fiving each other.


----------



## tgfencer

Gregmega said:


> You're gonna love it. Everyone in this thread that has taken the plunge is high-fiving each other.



I know, here's hoping! It actually makes me a bit suspicious, where are all the naysayers and critics....its too quiet...


----------



## chinacats

tgfencer said:


> I know, here's hoping! It actually makes me a bit suspicious, where are all the naysayers and critics....its too quiet...



I would tend to agree but the op isn't known to hype things that aren't very good.


----------



## Thorndahl88

I got a toyama 240 and itinomonn 240, can u guys maybe say if the mazaki 240 is needed and explain Why it is. Got the petty 180 and pairing 95 . Both really some stunners


----------



## HRC_64

Doe mazaki do a 180 petty in Ginsanko?


----------



## Thorndahl88

HRC_64 said:


> Doe mazaki do a 180 petty in Ginsanko?



Only on White so far, same goes for the pairing sadly


----------



## aschaefer

geoff_nocon said:


> Mazaki Kiritsuke gyuto https://aframestokyo.com/tesshu--kiritsuke-wa-gyuto-240mm-white-ii-forged-by-mr-naoki-maz240.html



Has anyone put their hands on one of these? I'm interested in trying out a Mazaki (especially since I live 20 minutes from where Mr. Aoki sells his knives) but the Kiritsuke tip gives me pause.

Edit: I see a few pages back someone had the chance to review theirs - I can't decide if the kiritsuke tip is for me or not..also it will be tough to adjust to such a flat profile coming from western knives.


----------



## MrHiggins

Thorndahl88 said:


> I got a toyama 240 and itinomonn 240, can u guys maybe say if the mazaki 240 is needed and explain Why it is. Got the petty 180 and pairing 95 . Both really some stunners


I love my Mazaki 240, but can't imagine it beating out a Toyama 240 (I own a 270 Toyama gyuto and 270 suji and find them both stunning). 

If I owned a toyama 240 and a Mazaki 180 petty like you, the next knife I'd consider is a Toyama or Mazaki 270 suji, not a 240 Mazaki gyuto.


----------



## DitmasPork

tgfencer said:


> I know, here's hoping! It actually makes me a bit suspicious, where are all the naysayers and critics....its too quiet...




Been loving it as an all around gyuto. For me it's a little problematic with very dense root veggies, cabbage coresoverall finish is a bit rough for my taste. For more finesse work I'll prefer bringing out a less taller gyuto, like my Kagero, KS or UX10. That said, the Maz is my go-to for most tasks, always on the cutting board latelylove this knife, has soul!

Below is last night's jalapeno cheddar cornbread.


----------



## ashy2classy

Gregmega said:


> You're gonna love it. Everyone in this thread that has taken the plunge is high-fiving each other.


Lol! I love this! [emoji1]


----------



## Thorndahl88

MrHiggins said:


> I love my Mazaki 240, but can't imagine it beating out a Toyama 240 (I own a 270 Toyama gyuto and 270 suji and find them both stunning).
> 
> If I owned a toyama 240 and a Mazaki 180 petty like you, the next knife I'd consider is a Toyama or Mazaki 270 suji, not a 240 Mazaki gyuto.



Thanks for the reply and ur point of view 
Always wanted the toyama suiji 270, But so far i havent had Any use for one. 
I might replace most of my knives for toyama to salute him before he retires. 
Well bye bye Money and happy wife [emoji23]
Sorry for going off topic 

P.s If Anyone got the pairing from toyama or the petty + 210 gyuto please pm me details thanks.


----------



## ashy2classy

Loving this thread. Just ordered a KU 220 so I can better compare with my 220 migaki. Could mean the 210 KU will get sold. For now, here are better pictures of the blade (sorry for the slight blurriness, was holding the camera with one hand). Really dig this finish...


----------



## DitmasPork

ashy2classy said:


> Loving this thread. Just ordered a KU 220 so I can better compare with my 220 migaki. Could mean the 210 KU will get sold. For now, here are better pictures of the blade (sorry for the slight blurriness, was holding the camera with one hand). Really dig this finish...



That's gorgeous! Love the rustic KU finish on that. Man I wish I had the funds for another splurge.


----------



## 5698k

That is my absolute favorite finish on a knife, I dont see it often.


----------



## panda

And that handle from clean-cut &#128525;&#128525;


----------



## Gregmega

ashy2classy said:


> Loving this thread. Just ordered a KU 220 so I can better compare with my 220 migaki. Could mean the 210 KU will get sold. For now, here are better pictures of the blade (sorry for the slight blurriness, was holding the camera with one hand). Really dig this finish...



Oh wow. I'd love to be part of that chat, I have the migaki and would like to see the ku[emoji7]


----------



## labor of love

Wait, are you saying theres a KU, nashiji and migaki versions floating around?


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> Wait, are you saying theres a KU, nashiji and migaki versions floating around?



Yes sir, I've seen the KU at clean-cut. The ku to me looks kind of kochi-ish? I've only handled one Kochi, but it reminds me of it.


----------



## aschaefer

SolidSnake03 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Interested in possibly grabbing one of these in the Ktip form from aframes, can anyone comment on how big these feel for their size? Reason I'm asking is I'm a bit torn between the 210 and 240mm and given that the prices are close it would more come down to feel. Is this a knife that feels big for its size like a Kramer, Watanabe or some of the Shiro Kamo stuff or is this more Konosuke like in that all the sizes feel more nimble/easy to handle than you would guess based on size alone? I'm thinking these are going to feel on the bigger side but wanted some perspective on it, thanks!



I got to handle a 210 ktip with some other Tesshu 210s, the mazaki k-tip was only about 1cm shorter than the 240 tesshu gyutos


----------



## Jville

bkultra said:


> I think the Mazaki is the better deal at it's current price ($250ish for a 240mm). Toyama won't be making knives for much longer so if you want one I would recommend buying one of his knives first.



I received my mazaki 240 on bday the other day and looks like it's going to be fantastic. I also pulled the trigger on a 240 Toyama. I figured it's easier to sell than trying to buy one when they r diminishing. Glad I did, especially after just using the 210 Toyama. I've heard the steel is really nice on the Toyama. The small taste I've had doesn't give me the impression otherwise. Perhaps, the steel alone could be worth owning both or at least a good excuse to. Haven't heard much about the mazaki steel. The profile seems like it should be pretty different on the Toyama compared to the mazaki but idk.


----------



## Viggetorr

Do let's us know when you've had the opportunity to compare, Jville. I'm torn between these two!


----------



## Sleep

Mazaki and Toyama are a similar style of knife with similar weight and dimensions. The main difference is the profile. The Mazaki tip is lower, pointier, and thinner. I think Mazaki is much better value for money but Toyama is a better cutter.





JNS Mazaki 240 (wide bevel)
Toyama 240
Toyama 240 ktip
Cleancut Mazaki


----------



## labor of love

I bet that k tip is your favorite of the bunch.



Sleep said:


> Mazaki and Toyama are a similar style of knife with similar weight and dimensions. The main difference is the profile. The Mazaki tip is lower, pointier, and thinner. I think Mazaki is much better value for money but Toyama is a better cutter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JNS Mazaki 240 (wide bevel)
> Toyama 240
> Toyama 240 ktip
> Cleancut Mazaki


----------



## YG420

Sleep said:


> Mazaki and Toyama are a similar style of knife with similar weight and dimensions. The main difference is the profile. The Mazaki tip is lower, pointier, and thinner. I think Mazaki is much better value for money but Toyama is a better cutter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JNS Mazaki 240 (wide bevel)
> Toyama 240
> Toyama 240 ktip
> Cleancut Mazaki



How is the jns mazaki vs cleancut?


----------



## Sleep

labor of love said:


> I bet that k tip is your favorite of the bunch.



Yeah the ktip is awesome. I really like the regular Gyuto too though. Mine is thin and light for a 240 Toyama (210g) and it just flies through everything. And bit more curve in profile feels nicer on the warped plastic boards at work.



YG420 said:


> How is the jns mazaki vs cleancut?



Apples and oranges. Mine is from the first JNS batch. It's thicker and has a wide bevel grind. It's a completely different knife compared with the current JNS Mazaki.


----------



## YG420

Gotcha, thanks for the info!


----------



## Jville

I can't delete my posts?


----------



## chinacats

Jville said:


> I can't delete my posts?



Nope, but you can edit if it hasn't been too long, though I'm no longer sure what that time period is...


----------



## Jville

Comprende, thanks china


----------



## Viggetorr

If your only 240 gyuto was a Kurosaki R2 hammered ( https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/kurosaki-knives/products/yu-kurosaki-megumi-gyuto-240mm ) weighing in at about 220g, do you think a 240 Mazaki would fill a purpose or would they overlap? I live 10 minutes from Cleancut and am very curious to try a Mazaki, but I'm not (yet) really into having knives that overlap in their areas of excellence.


----------



## panda

Dont let the being same size keep you from getting a better knife.


----------



## Viggetorr

panda said:


> Dont let the being same size keep you from getting a better knife.



I wouldn't. Have you tried both?


----------



## bosco

I just picked up a 220mm Mazaki KU from clean cut. They were excellent to deal with and offered to add a micro bevel and sharpen with 1000, 5000, and 8000 (soft) stone. I should have it delivered to Canada on Monday from Sweden so that is really good time. 

I hope that the size is ok, or else it will likely go for sale next week on the forum here.


----------



## Jville

Viggetorr said:


> If your only 240 gyuto was a Kurosaki R2 hammered ( https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/kurosaki-knives/products/yu-kurosaki-megumi-gyuto-240mm ) weighing in at about 220g, do you think a 240 Mazaki would fill a purpose or would they overlap? I live 10 minutes from Cleancut and am very curious to try a Mazaki, but I'm not (yet) really into having knives that overlap in their areas of excellence.



At first I was going to say there shouldn't be much overlap at all, besides them both being 240 gyutos. But I was thinking it was the laserish r2 version. If this happens to be the thicker megumi version that I tried, then they will have some similarities as both being bigger thicker style gyutos. The one kurasaki megumi that I tried I didn't care for as a daily driver, which the mazaki seems to be fantastic as-with the small experience I've had with it. The kuro meg that I used seemed like an ultimate bruiser for things like watermelon, but kuro doesn't usually have much distal taper, so with that particular knive the tip was jus so thick. It was a clumsy tip imo. Also, it just didn't go through alot of products really great, but I do remember it surprising me with sweet potatoes. It seemed quite good and with great aithority. If the kurasaki Meg you have is like mine, the mazaki could perhaps add more performance to a better variety of ingredients and would complement the kuro as a straight bruiser. If this sounds far off from your description of your kuro Meg, then idk maybe,maybe not a good variety.


----------



## ashy2classy

bosco said:


> I just picked up a 220mm Mazaki KU from clean cut. They were excellent to deal with and offered to add a micro bevel and sharpen with 1000, 5000, and 8000 (soft) stone. I should have it delivered to Canada on Monday from Sweden so that is really good time.
> 
> I hope that the size is ok, or else it will likely go for sale next week on the forum here.



Congrats! Mine should be arriving tomorrow (got delayed a few days "due to operating conditions"). Can't wait to see how it compares to the 210 KU and 220 migaki. 

What are your concerns about the size? Personally I find 220x50 to be perfect dimensions. Looking forward to your thoughts. Good luck and enjoy!


----------



## niwaki-boy

bosco said:


> I just picked up a 220mm Mazaki KU from clean cut. They were excellent to deal with and offered to add a micro bevel and sharpen with 1000, 5000, and 8000 (soft) stone. I should have it delivered to Canada on Monday from Sweden so that is really good time.
> 
> I hope that the size is ok, or else it will likely go for sale next week on the forum here.



That knife is a slayer! Those guys put a pretty good edge on ootb but when run on a jnat it really shines &#129321;
FWIW the edge was good enough for me to ask Christofer what the final stone was and he said it was a kitayama 8k


----------



## bosco

You are all making me feel like I got a good one coming. Bkultra recommemded it and I am gals that I was able to get the last one


The size, nothing really. I have been going towards the 240s lately I just hope its not to short in the length.


----------



## MrHiggins

ashy2classy said:


> Congrats! Mine should be arriving tomorrow (got delayed a few days "due to operating conditions"). Can't wait to see how it compares to the 210 KU and 220 migaki.



I got a 250 KU delivered from clean-cut on Tuesday. I look forward to this weekend when I can compare it with a JNS 240. Just by looking, however, it's obvious that the KU is the thicker at the spine (not that that's indicative of anything else, really).

I also got a KU suji that I can compare with a toyama suji. 

I'll post pics this weekend.


----------



## niwaki-boy

MrHiggins said:


> I also got a KU suji that I can compare with a toyama suji.



Mmmmmmm... yes! &#128077;&#128077; &#129345;


----------



## Viggetorr

Jville said:


> At first I was going to say there shouldn't be much overlap at all, besides them both being 240 gyutos. But I was thinking it was the laserish r2 version. If this happens to be the thicker megumi version that I tried, then they will have some similarities as both being bigger thicker style gyutos. The one kurasaki megumi that I tried I didn't care for as a daily driver, which the mazaki seems to be fantastic as-with the small experience I've had with it. The kuro meg that I used seemed like an ultimate bruiser for things like watermelon, but kuro doesn't usually have much distal taper, so with that particular knive the tip was jus so thick. It was a clumsy tip imo. Also, it just didn't go through alot of products really great, but I do remember it surprising me with sweet potatoes. It seemed quite good and with great aithority. If the kurasaki Meg you have is like mine, the mazaki could perhaps add more performance to a better variety of ingredients and would complement the kuro as a straight bruiser. If this sounds far off from your description of your kuro Meg, then idk maybe,maybe not a good variety.



This is indeed the megumi version, with very little distal taper and a fairly thick spine. However the tip is very thin imo and does horizontal onion cuts and fine mincing of garlic/ginger very well. It came with the balance point about 5.5cm in front of the handle weighing 197g, so I've actually sent it to a smith to insert a "buttplug" that will move the balance point back a bit and and 20g of weight. Hopefully this will give it a more authoritative feel.


----------



## Midsummer

CK_TG has come out and directly used Mazaki's name as the smith for the yahiko white #2 knife pictured earlier in this thread.


----------



## Jville

Viggetorr said:


> This is indeed the megumi version, with very little distal taper and a fairly thick spine. However the tip is very thin imo and does horizontal onion cuts and fine mincing of garlic/ginger very well. It came with the balance point about 5.5cm in front of the handle weighing 197g, so I've actually sent it to a smith to insert a "buttplug" that will move the balance point back a bit and and 20g of weight. Hopefully this will give it a more authoritative feel.



Here's my 2 cents. You've seem to have a little different experience involving the tip performance on your kuro than i did. You seem pretty happy with it. I think in function your kuro may have some strong similarities that may not provide as much variance. The kuro was low tipped and not a great rocker imo, so is the mazaki. I think the mazaki is probably a little better rocker, going off memory. Also the mazaki is very weight forward. I did a rough measurement without being to exact. It was about 5.5 cm in front of the heel. It was a quick measurement done just by roughly estimating it with my finger. Regardless, the mazaki is very blade forward more than the toyama I just received. I think I remember the kuro having really, really great food release with the combo of an anryuish grind on steroids and that cool hammered finish. I would expect it to be actually better food release than the mazaki. I also wouldn't be surprised if it went through things like sweeties better, but I think the mazaki would go through most ingredients. better. I think something like the Toyama would over a more different profile, but perhaps that's not worth it to you to spend that extra cash. Also it depends on your personal preferences. Are you a guy that just wants thicker workhorse style knifes, or are you a guy who wants some lighter knives, even a laser. Usually I think the mazaki would be easy to recommend, but I'm not sure in your particular situation.


----------



## ashy2classy

MrHiggins said:


> I got a 250 KU delivered from clean-cut on Tuesday. I look forward to this weekend when I can compare it with a JNS 240. Just by looking, however, it's obvious that the KU is the thicker at the spine (not that that's indicative of anything else, really).
> 
> I also got a KU suji that I can compare with a toyama suji.
> 
> I'll post pics this weekend.



Looking forward to your comparisons! Enjoy!


----------



## ashy2classy

All three...haven't tried the 220 KU, but I'll report back when I do.

Collection








Migaki 220mm




KU 220mm




KU 210mm


----------



## labor of love

Wow, they all look great. KU 220mm might my fave choil pic.


----------



## HRC_64

labor of love said:


> Wow, they all look great. KU 220mm might my fave choil pic.



+1 that looks sweet


----------



## tgfencer

Some shots of JNS 240 with Toyama 270, Kato WH 240, Kato 240. Spine shot comparisons are WH first and standard Kato second. Sorry for the crappy photos, don't know why they attached so small and out of focus

Initial impressions are positive.


View attachment 39158

View attachment 39159

View attachment 39160

View attachment 39161


----------



## Jville

Yeah the choil shots on my 240 mazaki and 240 Toyama look awfully similiar. If it wasn't for the profile being different on the Toyama, I would probably sell it bnib. But honestly, I kind of f want a reason to keep them both, initially I'm pumped about both of them.


----------



## bkultra

Jville said:


> Yeah the choil shots on my 240 mazaki and 240 Toyama look awfully similiar. If it wasn't for the profile being different on the Toyama, I would probably sell it bnib. But honestly, I kind of f want a reason to keep them both, initially I'm pumped about both of them.



Though mine are nearly identical in every spec (length,height, and weight), they are very different knives.


----------



## Jville

bkultra said:


> Though mine are nearly identical in every spec (length,height, and weight), they are very different knives.



That's good to hear and makes sense. I haven't used the toyama yet, but I was kind of expecting it to be it's own experience, especially after using the 210.


----------



## Gregmega

ashy2classy said:


> Congrats! Mine should be arriving tomorrow (got delayed a few days "due to operating conditions"). Can't wait to see how it compares to the 210 KU and 220 migaki.
> 
> What are your concerns about the size? Personally I find 220x50 to be perfect dimensions. Looking forward to your thoughts. Good luck and enjoy!



It's a little shocking that 220 isn't a more standard size, I love the dimensions. Really would love for that to become a little more common myself.


----------



## Gregmega

Midsummer said:


> CK_TG has come out and directly used Mazaki's name as the smith for the yahiko white #2 knife pictured earlier in this thread.



I knew it. They also raised the prices. 40$ across the board. Must be in account of the popularity of the JNS & Cleancut lines.


----------



## JBroida

Gregmega said:


> It's a little shocking that 220 isn't a more standard size, I love the dimensions. Really would love for that to become a little more common myself.



225 is a size you can order pretty easily... just consider everything is normally in 30mm jumps, and half sizes would be 15mm. So we have 210mm, 240mm, 270mm, 300mm, etc. We can also usually order 225mm, 255mm, and 285mm (but not from every crafsman... however, quite a few are open to this when they make each knife entirely by hand).


----------



## Jovidah

JBroida said:


> 225 is a size you can order pretty easily... just consider everything is normally in 30mm jumps, and half sizes would be 15mm. So we have 210mm, 240mm, 270mm, 300mm, etc. We can also usually order 225mm, 255mm, and 285mm (but not from every crafsman... however, quite a few are open to this when they make each knife entirely by hand).



You're telling us this now? 
I think for a lot of people who have this '210 vs 240 dilemma' the 225 is the perfect compromise they've always been looking for.


----------



## panda

and the 240 vs 270 dilemma 250-255 is perfect


----------



## labor of love

Gregmega said:


> I knew it. They also raised the prices. 40$ across the board. Must be in account of the popularity of the JNS & Cleancut lines.



Im no psychic but I wouldnt be surprised if yahiko disappears.


----------



## panda

ok guys chill with the maz popularity. definitely not for everybody, it's a jack of all trades master of none, no need to creep into toyama prices..


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> ok guys chill with the maz popularity. definitely not for everybody, it's a jack of all trades master of none, no need to creep into toyama prices..



So says the hype master!!! Haha


----------



## niwaki-boy

Lol 45 pages later &#128514;


----------



## Lpn562

niwaki-boy said:


> Lol 45 pages later &#128514;



&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;


----------



## tgfencer

To be honest, the hype train on this one really turned me off, though my wife would note that I am always the person in the group who will disagree/argue with something everybody else loves just out natural instinct. However, so many people liked their Mazaki's that I was curious enough to get one given the price was reasonable. My thoughts on the JNS 240 example. 

What I Liked:
-The heft. Unfortunately I don't have a scale at the moment, but it has a certain Toyama/Watanabe/Kato like heft to it as has been noted already. Not as heavy as those makers, but certainly reminiscent, with a thick spine (approx. 3.8mm) coming out of the handle.

-The grind. My example has some convexity at the heel, but seems to thin out substantially for the last half of the blade. The grind on the last half of the blade reminds me a fair bit of my Gesshin Kochi migaki actually, or take a Toyama/Watanabe and knock off about 1/3 of the steel and it will give you a general idea.

-I agree that its a jack of all trades, master of none kind of knife, but I like that in a gyuto because its not a specialized blade type. I'd rather it handle most things well then do one or two very well and the rest meh.

-Hardness of steel. I haven't sharpened yet, but it feels a more like honyaki/Kato on the cutting board than your typical white steel, which I guess you either like or you don't. If it sharpens similarly to my other higher HRC knives I do not foresee this being problematic though be warned if you like your white steel in the 61-62 range.

-Reasonable price. These days sub-$250 for a 240mm gyuto is a good deal.

What I Don't Like:
-Distal taper. I expected more distal taper from this one given conversation here. It was nice, but if you check out my photos of the Kato comparison, it did not get as thin. Thinner than my Toyama and Shigefusa, thicker than my Kato, Hinoura, Kochi.

-The flat spot. The flat spot near the heel is a little small for my tastes. Not a deal breaker, just makes it feel more like a push cutter with a slight rocking ability. Maybe its the nakiri lover in me, but I like to be able to chop easily with my gyuto flat spots. 

-Release. No wedging on this one but food sticking was evident particularly in starchy foods like potatoes. Personally, I don't mind, but I know many here rate food release quite highly so I chose to mention it. I put it down to the thinning of the grind in the last half of the gyuto, combined with the polished finish. Some here have shown there is a slight s-grind on the flats on their knives, which may help with food release on the heel, but I did not find that to be the case on my example. 

Final Impression: An interesting knife, one I think will stick around for a while. Though it has a fairly entry-level price tag, it would not be my first recommendation for a newcomer to j-knives. The hardness of the steel would require better sharpening skills and I would worry that the heft might mislead an inexperienced user to think it the edge was tougher than it is. Personally, it reminds me of a strange hybrid between my Kato workhorse and my old Kochi migaki (blue steel)-not a bad thing in my books. I don't like rating knives as better or worse cutters as I think the idea of cutting is really a combination of other factors (grind, sharpening level, finish, geometry, personal preferences, just to name a few), so what I will say is that this Mazaki knife feels like a prime utility tool. It may or may not outgun your favorites in their best positions, but it can do a job anywhere if you need it to. If I still worked in a pro environment, I would be seriously tempted by the ginsanko if it retained the same heft and grind.


----------



## Jville

@tgfencer, I'm curious if you got one of his thinner spined grinds. The one I have is as hefty as the toyama. Also the spine is thicker than the yahiko(mazaki) that I seen. Also someone who had an older mazaki and a yahiko said they were duplicates. He also got a newer one and noted differences in spine thickness,weight, like I saw


----------



## tgfencer

Jville said:


> @tgfencer, I'm curious if you got one of his thinner spined grinds. The one I have is as hefty as the toyama. Also the spine is thicker than the yahiko(mazaki) that I seen. Also someone who had an older mazaki and a yahiko said they were duplicates. He also got a newer one and noted differences in spine thickness,weight, like I saw



Its possible, I haven't kept up with the whole conversation on these knives. The spine is about as thick as my Toyama coming out of the handle, but it tapers down more than the Toyama. However, the spine doesn't tell the whole tale because the overall grind is thinner on the Mazaki then the Toyama so there is less meat to the knife as a whole. The heft of the Mazaki is right at the heel, while the Toyama's balance is further forward. As bkultra said, they are very much alike if you just look at basic specs, but the knives are very different due to the reasons I highlighted.


----------



## tgfencer

I would also add that at the price I'm happy enough with it. If it crept above $300 I'd probably turn elsewhere. There's nothing revolutionary about the knife and having used it I don't feel like I'd be missing out on anything if I sold it on. It falls squarely in the mid-range performer category that includes Kochi, Hinoura (white steel offerings), Gengetsu, etc. If you happen to like thicker spines and bit more heft, its a good option in that category.


----------



## Jville

tgfencer said:


> Its possible, I haven't kept up with the whole conversation on these knives. The spine is about as thick as my Toyama coming out of the handle, but it tapers down more than the Toyama. However, the spine doesn't tell the whole tale because the overall grind is thinner on the Mazaki then the Toyama so there is less meat to the knife as a whole. The heft of the Mazaki is right at the heel, while the Toyama's balance is further forward. As bkultra said, they are very much alike if you just look at basic specs, but the knives are very different due to the reasons I highlighted.



Your observations are exactly how I would compare the yahiko (mazaki) to the toyama. But the (jns)mazaki , perhaps newer version, I got is actually weighted more forward than my particular toyama. Also the spine stays thicker, without measuring I would say it a tad thicker the first third of the spine tapering down to nearly identical to the toyama and thinking out a little more at the tip area than the toyama. I also noticed a little improvement on food release from the newer mazaki to the yahiko mazaki. I don't know if the boxes tell any story , but the yahiko had a bigger box, while the mazaki had a small box. Perhaps, this is completely unrelated and merely a product of particular vendors, but I mentioned it just in case.


----------



## tgfencer

Jville said:


> Your observations are exactly how I would compare the yahiko (mazaki) to the toyama. But the (jns)mazaki , perhaps newer version, I got is actually weighted more forward than my particular toyama. Also the spine stays thicker, without measuring I would say it a tad thicker the first third of the spine tapering down to nearly identical to the toyama and thinking out a little more at the tip area than the toyama. I also noticed a little improvement on food release from the newer mazaki to the yahiko mazaki. I don't know if the boxes tell any story , but the yahiko had a bigger box, while the mazaki had a small box. Perhaps, this is completely unrelated and merely a product of particular vendors, but I mentioned it just in case.



Hmm, well I just got it this past week. It would be a bit odd for a vendor to sell two different grind of knife without differentiating them from one another on the website. Anyway, I'm probably not going to buy another one just to see  It did come in a slightly wider box, but who knows.


----------



## Jville

tgfencer said:


> Hmm, well I just got it this past week. It would be a bit odd for a vendor to sell two different grind of knife without differentiating them from one another on the website. Anyway, I'm probably not going to buy another one just to see  It did come in a slightly wider box, but who knows.



Of course I wasn't suggesting purchasing the newer one(if that's even the case I'm not totally sure) :running:. I'm somewhat just curious about the specifics


----------



## HRC_64

Jville said:


> Was it from jns? ... I'm somewhat just curious about the specifics



From previous post 



> My thoughts on the JNS 240 example.




#444


----------



## Jville

Yeah my bad I had reread the post and edite, but not before you replied :O


----------



## mattador

labor of love said:


> Im no psychic but I wouldnt be surprised if yahiko disappears.



Looks like cktg is gonna carry Mazaki ku pretty soon. They also have the anonymous Yahiko hairline knives in the same maker sub category lol


----------



## ashy2classy

tgfencer said:


> -Release. No wedging on this one but food sticking was evident particularly in starchy foods like potatoes. Personally, I don't mind, but I know many here rate food release quite highly so I chose to mention it. I put it down to the thinning of the grind in the last half of the gyuto, combined with the polished finish. Some here have shown there is a slight s-grind on the flats on their knives, which may help with food release on the heel, but I did not find that to be the case on my example.
> 
> Final Impression: An interesting knife, one I think will stick around for a while. Though it has a fairly entry-level price tag, it would not be my first recommendation for a newcomer to j-knives. The hardness of the steel would require better sharpening skills and I would worry that the heft might mislead an inexperienced user to think it the edge was tougher than it is. Personally, it reminds me of a strange hybrid between my Kato workhorse and my old Kochi migaki (blue steel)-not a bad thing in my books. I don't like rating knives as better or worse cutters as I think the idea of cutting is really a combination of other factors (grind, sharpening level, finish, geometry, personal preferences, just to name a few), so what I will say is that this Mazaki knife feels like a prime utility tool. It may or may not outgun your favorites in their best positions, but it can do a job anywhere if you need it to. If I still worked in a pro environment, I would be seriously tempted by the ginsanko if it retained the same heft and grind.



Good to see another review - thanks for taking the time to present your impressions! I'm surprised you had that experience with food release. I don't have a 240, but both my 220s have great release. Potatoes would just stay in place, with minimal sticking every now and then. Not sure if others experience the same. *SHRUG* For the price, I feel like these things are incredible. I get that they're probably not worth the "hype machine", but for someone who likes a hefty spine and blade, with a thin edge, Mazaki really delivers, IMO. It just so happens I'm in that camp so I guess that's why I enjoy them so much. Looking forward to seeing the new profile blades when Maxsim gets them.

Hope you continue to enjoy yours!


----------



## MrHiggins

I was able to play around with with my new Mazaki 250 KU (Clean-Cut version) tonight. I compared it with two other similar knives: a Mazaki 240 Kasumi (JNS version) and a 240 Shi-Han in A2. Here are some specs and some photo links:

Mazaki KU:
- weight: 244g
- height: 55mm
- length (heel to tip): 250
- photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/pV5NN
- impressions: This is a big, heavy knife. Aesthetically, it's stunning: look at that OOTB contrast between the core and the cladding! Food release is stunning. Have you ever seen a thicker spine coming out of the handle? It's a beast, but might end up on the BST due to me having two other very similar knives (read on)...

Mazaki Kasumi:
- weight: 211gr
- height: 53mm
- length (heel to tip): 247
- photos: https://imgur.com/a/J24yn
- impressions: Very svelt, and very reminiscent of my Toyama 270 gyuto. Much lighter than the KU. Since I bought this, it's been the knife I reach to more than any other. I really, really like it.

Shi-Han:
- weight: 223gr
- height: 52mm
- length (heel to tip): 245
- photos: https://imgur.com/a/uzWAM
- impressions: The Shi-Han is in a class of its own. The grind is high and impeccable. The choil is so rounded and polished that it's impossible to take a choil shot, so my photo give absolutely no information about the knife at all. It is unique among my knives in that it has no distal taper, which makes the balance point very blade-heavy. That said, I still reach for my kasumi Mazaki when I have work to do, which I still don't fully understand given the Shi-Han's quality.


----------



## panda

mrhiggins can you post pics of them next to each other?
what is shi-han? choil shot makes it look like a single bevel. looks like monosteel, is that same as ginrei from jki?

244g holy crap thats a heavy motha. could it be a kato killer?  i'm totally enamored with that nashiji ku finish, it's so badass looking!!


----------



## JBroida

Hes the guy who makes our ginrei series


----------



## panda

jon is yours made to different specs? craig keeps telling me i need to try it but i cant get over my hatred for 52100 steel, lol


----------



## MrHiggins

panda said:


> mrhiggins can you post pics of them next to each other?
> what is shi-han? choil shot makes it look like a single bevel. looks like monosteel, is that same as ginrei from jki?
> 
> 244g holy crap thats a heavy motha. could it be a kato killer?  i'm totally enamored with that nashiji ku finish, it's so badass looking!!



Here are some side-by-side photos. https://imgur.com/gallery/KwxVn

It looks like the KU has a higher tip. 

The Shi-Han is a different profile altogether. I can't speak for the maker of this knife, but I chatted with him for a while when I bought this knife. It was my impression that he's looking to move away from 52100 and make his monosteels out of A2. I think mine is a bit of a prototype. So far, I'm very impressed. It is a very authoritative knife with a unique feel in hand.


----------



## panda

thanks. your kasumi looks just like mine (there seems to be a lot of variation among these) 
i am glad i did not go wit the KU as the higher tip would not have made me enjoy this knife as much.

A2.. no thanks, lol.


----------



## Triggaaar

Has anyone here managed to use, and also sharpen the Ginsanko yet?

And are we currently in the dark as to how the Cleancut and JNS compare, due to different versions now being stocked, and fairly wide variances from the maker?

I'm keen to get one, but I'd like to have a reasonable idea what I'm getting


----------



## labor of love

Triggaaar said:


> Has anyone here managed to use, and also sharpen the Ginsanko yet?
> 
> And are we currently in the dark as to how the Cleancut and JNS compare, due to different versions now being stocked, and fairly wide variances from the maker?
> 
> I'm keen to get one, but I'd like to have a reasonable idea what I'm getting



Just talk to whichever vendor you plan on ordering from about your preferences


----------



## Triggaaar

labor of love said:


> Just talk to whichever vendor you plan on ordering from about your preferences


Difficult for them to pick one out for me when they've only got one in stock though


----------



## labor of love

Its not difficult for them to tell you about the single knife that they have instock either though. Isnt JNS the only place carrying Ginsanko?


----------



## Triggaaar

labor of love said:


> Its not difficult for them to tell you about the single knife that they have instock either though.


Fair enough, although I emailed cleancut this morning and haven't heard back yet. Easier with Maksim when he's in, as you can chat on his website.


> Isnt JNS the only place carrying Ginsanko?


At the moment he seems to be (although he's on holiday), but I'd like to hear what people here think of it - not sure if anyone's got one yet. It is also a huge markup, so if the price doesn't drop (or cleancut start selling one at a better price) I'd probably get the Shirogami regardless.


----------



## Danzo

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but looks like mazaki is forging for yoshihiro too. Im sure all of these knives are the same. Clean cut, JNS, a-frames, CKTG, yoshirio. Too bad its out of stock there too.

https://echefknife.com/product/yoshihiro-nashiji-high-carbon-gyuto/


----------



## DitmasPork

Danzo said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but looks like mazaki is forging for yoshihiro too. Im sure all of these knives are the same. Clean cut, JNS, a-frames, CKTG, yoshirio. Too bad its out of stock there too.
> 
> https://echefknife.com/product/yoshihiro-nashiji-high-carbon-gyuto/



Carried by Japana as well https://japana.uk/tag/naoki-mazaki/

He's a busy man! Time for Naoki to get a bigger workshop and hire a few extra workers.


----------



## labor of love

I dunno know if hes busy per se...these arent very big inventories. Maxim already mentioned the ginsanko stuff is being made in small batches, like batches of 3 per size.


----------



## Choppin

Im specially curious about the 240 Ginsanko Suji... just in case anyone here got it already


----------



## bosco

I got my 220 KU today and I must say its like a piece of art. I prefer slightly longer knife so I am not sure yet but likely to list it. I have offered it up to someone on the forum already and if he isnt interested Ill post it later today in the classified section. Clean cut did a remarkable job on packaging the knife. I cant say enough good things about their service.


----------



## swarth

Does anyone have an email for cleancut?


----------



## bkultra

swarth said:


> Does anyone have an email for cleancut?



[email protected]


----------



## swarth

bkultra said:


> [email protected]



Thanks. Facebook PMs dont seem to be getting the job done.


----------



## labor of love

swarth said:


> Thanks. Facebook PMs dont seem to be getting the job done.



Wow really? Worked for me in the past.


----------



## ashy2classy

swarth said:


> Thanks. Facebook PMs dont seem to be getting the job done.




They can be a bit slow, but they eventually get back to me. I have to bug them sometimes.


----------



## DanDan

Dang I was here when the thread just got started and I was under the impression that these were thickness monsters, guess I have almost 50 pages of reading to do :laugh:

Anyway, just in here to share that I just happened to be browsing around when I found out Knifewear is having their garage sale and they got a handful of Mazaki blades in. Their sale actually looks decent this time around.


----------



## limpet

ashy2classy said:


> They can be a bit slow, but they eventually get back to me. I have to bug them sometimes.


 Some of the Cleancut staff are in Japan right now, so that might perhaps slow things down a little.


----------



## swarth

It must be the case... I just got replies from email and FB 

They have 1 210 KU left...pending sale...and that is all. They will not be restocking the KU. They will be restocking the migaki series.


----------



## DitmasPork

Needing a break from Mazakipalooza, I've gone back to my Kato for now. What pushed me over the edge was seeing that Yahiko changed its name to Mazaki.


----------



## bkultra

I have a 250 KU incoming, should be here on Wednesday. Looks nearly identical in specs to mine, sans weight (244g vs 229g).


----------



## bkultra

The twins


----------



## panda

you should send the kasumi one to marko to get new shoes so i can have the stock one put on my custom knife he's working on, hehe


----------



## MrHiggins

Hope you like the KU, bk. I miss her already...


----------



## Lpn562

bkultra said:


> The twins
> 
> View attachment 39287



Great knives!


----------



## niwaki-boy

bkultra said:


> The twins
> 
> View attachment 39287



Nice! Love my twins as well, 220s. Im still amazed that he could chisel kanji into that awesome kuro finish. Some serious offroad chisel action to be sure &#128077;&#128077;


----------



## Viggetorr

bkultra said:


> The twins
> 
> View attachment 39287



Any chance for a comparison?


----------



## bkultra

Haven't used the KU very much yet, but mine are nearly identical in specs... The KU is slightly thicker and heavier


----------



## Interapid101

Seems like the grind is slightly different, too? Looks like the kasumi has more of a "smile" in the shinogi. Maybe I'm just imagining...


----------



## ashy2classy

panda said:


> you should send the kasumi one to marko to get new shoes so i can have the stock one put on my custom knife he's working on, hehe



Are the 250 handles the same size as the 220s? If so, I plan to rehandle both of my 220s. I'd consider sending one your way for an agreed upon price. They're too nice to just give away. :biggrin:


----------



## sac36555

Where can I find a Mazaki in stock right now??? I cant seem to find them anywhere


----------



## niwaki-boy

sac36555 said:


> Where can I find a Mazaki in stock right now??? I cant seem to find them anywhere



Except for sujis, santokus, petties and nikiris the only thing I see is a 210 kiritsuke at aframes, gyutos all gone. Id be keeping my eye the b/s/t, its just about that time after a train leaves the station that some realize that theyre on the wrong one.


----------



## panda

Sac36 - once I get my custom knife I will probably put my 250 up.for sale without the handle.at a greatly reduced price. Pm me if interested in waiting.


----------



## bahamaroot

Gregmega said:


> I knew it. They also raised the prices. 40$ across the board. Must be in account of the popularity of the JNS & Cleancut lines.


Mazaki forced him to raise the prices now that his name is on the knife so his other retailers wouldn't complain about Mark undercutting them.


----------



## Jville

sac36555 said:


> Where can I find a Mazaki in stock right now??? I cant seem to find them anywhere


Cktg has them in stock now, including gyutos.


----------



## labor of love

Just wait for a new batch of gyutos, theyre only going to get better.


----------



## labor of love

And for what its worth Im okay with the prices going up. As popular as mazaki is, theres room for improvement.


----------



## panda

yea, heat treat could be improved or maybe wasnt hammered enough to get more impurities out. grind could also improve some. definitely on the right track. i suspect as he refines his craft more his prices will reflect that


----------



## labor of love

Well the worst part is they dont come with octagonal handles! Shame! Shame! Shame!


----------



## panda

i think every knife should come with D or octo option, and bonus if burnt chestnut is also option. d shape chestnut still eludes me.. masashi from aframes has the handle that i want, but the profile is a deal breaker, grind looks sweet tho.


----------



## MrHiggins

His knifes, including the cool hand-chiseled kanji, should be selling for more in my opinion. Dude is working HARD! (Also, it's easy for me to say, seeing as I've bought all mine already at the current low prices!)

Panda, I agree that there is always room for improvement in everything, but I've been very impressed with the heat treat on my Mazakis. No problems there, in my opinion.


----------



## Jville

They a'ight. Can we just enjoy them at their current pricing without encouraging price hikes :hungry:


----------



## swarth

panda said:


> yea, heat treat could be improved or maybe wasnt hammered enough to get more impurities out. grind could also improve some. definitely on the right track. i suspect as he refines his craft more his prices will reflect that



Curious. Can you expound on "impurities"?


----------



## Choppin

Could anyone give some feedback on JNSs Ginsanko line? Couldnt find much


----------



## ashy2classy

A look at the new KU line. They kinda remind me of Hinoura blades.






https://www.instagram.com/p/Bi3Y8k3lGs5/


----------



## swarth

IMO the new KU does not have the appeal that the old version (nashiji?) has.


----------



## bkultra

Seems like that rumor about the KU finish being changed had merit :biggrin:


----------



## panda

but why, nashji ku is the coolest looking thing ever


----------



## labor of love

panda said:


> but why, nashji ku is the coolest looking thing ever



Yeah but this KU looks to be more heavy duty and perhaps longer lasting? Maybe not. I dig it.


----------



## ashy2classy

swarth said:


> IMO the new KU does not have the appeal that the old version (nashiji?) has.



Agreed. I was considering selling my 220 nashiji but couldn't do it. The new style of KU still looks good, IMO. I plan to get a few more of his migaki line to add to my 220s when they're restocked. I'm a big fan...


----------



## bkultra

More labor and hence more cost, is my guess. He would hammer iron chips into the freshly forged knife to get the older finish.


----------



## Jville

bkultra said:


> More labor and hence more cost, is my guess. He would hammer iron chips into the freshly forged knife to get the older finish.



I definitely like the older finish by first impression.


----------



## MrHiggins

Jville said:


> I definitely like the older finish by first impression.


Yeah, I'm with panda on this one. I really like a nashiji/KU aesthetic.


----------



## panda

if i were to go KU option i would gladly pay extra for the cooler finish. it appears the grind is more wide bevel-ish (pretty much all KUs) and higher weight is not for me.


----------



## lemeneid

Played with the 210mm KU finish at my supplier's shop for a bit. Really fun knife to use and handle but I'd have to re-handle this because I'm a lefty. Don't know if its worth it vs a Fujiwara Maboroshi


----------



## Viggetorr

Are all Yahiko knives at cktg made by Mazaki? They just posted a new KU with a round hammered finish!


----------



## dwalker

Viggetorr said:


> Are all Yahiko knives at cktg made by Mazaki? They just posted a new KU with a round hammered finish!


No. The Yahiko Shirogami Hairline knives are Mazaki. The other Yahiko knives are from various makers. The hairline knives are now listed as Mazaki. He has some KU knives on order but it is unclear if the grind on these are the same as JNS or elsewhere. It is reported that the CKTG version is thinner all around than the JNS offering. 

Apparently, the early JNS offerings are different than the current. The CKTG version is different than both. It is my understanding that he is a one man shop and fairly early in his career so maybe he is still experimenting with his preferences or maybe he is giving the retailer what they request. 

I have both the CKTG Mazaki and the hammered Yahiko you mentioned. I like them both, but I'm probably going to sell the Mazaki due to it having too much overlap in my collection.


----------



## Kippington

The pitting on the sides is caused by little bits of forge scale. These are hard iron oxides that form while heating up the work in the forge, which can subsequently get hammered into the surface of the workpiece (and fall out later). We can wire brush it off the surface before hammering for a smoother finish.







Trusty wire bush, scratching the scale off the hot work before hammering.






Forge scale. If it stays on the knife (or anvil) while doing the hammer work, the finished knife will end up looking like the bottom one in this following picture:






It doesn't have much of an effect on the end product - it's mostly cosmetic and it's up to you whether it looks good or not.


----------



## Nemo

It looks good.

But I'm more interested in how it performs. [emoji4]


----------



## DitmasPork

Sanjo madness! Geez, that Naoki Mazaki gets around. Came across another couple of dealer websites carrying his knives. 

Note: I've never heard of these sites.

The Singaporean site has an interesting description of him: "A quiet pleasant "renegade" young maker trained by Yoshikane and currently undergoing further training with Kiyoshi Kato~san of Sanjo after touring whole of Japan on his restored late 70s Harley."

Upshot on the Brazilian site, the 245mm Mazaki comes with an Octagon handle.

https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br...oki-mazaki-sanjo-245mm-shirogami-japonesa-_JM

https://www.razorsharp.com.sg/naoki-mazaki.html

Let's see, mapping out who sells Mazakis:
Razorsharp (Singapore)
JNS (Denmark)
CKTG (US)
Cleancut (Sweden)
Produto (Brazil)
Knifewear (Canada)
Japana (UK)


----------



## HRC_64

I mean he has what one vendor in each country/?
Am I supposed to care about this?

:lol2:


----------



## labor of love

Theres actually several more in the US.


----------



## lemeneid

I just pulled the trigger on a 210mm with the new Ku finish. Purchased it from Razor Sharp and had a rosewood handle installed on it with a rosewood handle because I'm a lefty. The Ku has been polished so its not so thick and blends in with the kasumi finish. My eyes must be playing tricks on me but the grind looks a little more left-centric too.

As far as performance goes, it feels very uncompromising, it really wants to cut food. Granted I've only so far put it through one lunch of spaghetti bolognese. I feel like if I used it a little more, this would become my favourite knife. I bought this knife because its hard to come by white steel non-honyaki knives at this hardness, so I'm hoping it passes the edge retention test after prolonged use.


----------



## panda

fyi mutsumi hinoura and munetoshi heat treat of white#2 is also hard as hell. i've had all three and grind of mazaki was the best of the bunch. i'd give steel to hinoura.


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> fyi mutsumi hinoura and munetoshi heat treat of white#2 is also hard as hell. i've had all three and grind of mazaki was the best of the bunch. i'd give steel to hinoura.



I've wanted to get a hinoura. They seem like they would have really great grinds. Why did you prefer the mazaki?


----------



## DamageInc

My Mutsumi Hinoura 210mm gyuto has a real laser grind and a very hard white steel core. Fantastic heat treatment. If all his knives are as good as the one I have, I highly recommend his work.


----------



## Midsummer

DamageInc said:


> My Mutsumi Hinoura 210mm gyuto has a real laser grind and a very hard white steel core. Fantastic heat treatment. If all his knives are as good as the one I have, I highly recommend his work.



I have a M. Hinoura 210 and 240. The 210 is iron clad and a the 240 stainless. Both are white 2 edges and both are fantastic grinds IMHO. I have a 180 k tipped santoku on the way for just fiddling. I have yet to try a Mazaki, but would have no hesitation recommending the MH without reservation.


----------



## panda

i just dont like wide bevels, lol.


----------



## Consequence

DamageInc said:


> My Mutsumi Hinoura 210mm gyuto has a real laser grind and a very hard white steel core. Fantastic heat treatment. If all his knives are as good as the one I have, I highly recommend his work.



Where did you get your hinoura gyuto from? If i may ask.
They are quite different based on which person you buy them from...


----------



## ashy2classy

lemeneid said:


> I just pulled the trigger on a 210mm with the new Ku finish. Purchased it from Razor Sharp and had a rosewood handle installed on it with a rosewood handle because I'm a lefty. The Ku has been polished so its not so thick and blends in with the kasumi finish. My eyes must be playing tricks on me but the grind looks a little more left-centric too.
> 
> As far as performance goes, it feels very uncompromising, it really wants to cut food. Granted I've only so far put it through one lunch of spaghetti bolognese. I feel like if I used it a little more, this would become my favourite knife. I bought this knife because its hard to come by white steel non-honyaki knives at this hardness, so I'm hoping it passes the edge retention test after prolonged use.



Congrats on the new Mazaki! I really want to order a Mazaki KU 180mm petty from RS, but my bank account is in a lot of pain so I have to resist. Enjoy!


----------



## parbaked

lemeneid said:


> I just pulled the trigger on a 210mm with the new Ku finish.
> As far as performance goes, it feels very uncompromising, it really wants to cut food.
> Granted I've only so far put it through one lunch of spaghetti bolognese.



That's a really sweet looking knife, in the KU finish, but you really shouldn't cut your spaghetti...


----------



## lemeneid

panda said:


> fyi mutsumi hinoura and munetoshi heat treat of white#2 is also hard as hell. i've had all three and grind of mazaki was the best of the bunch. i'd give steel to hinoura.


i was interested in the hinoura too but it was priced a little higher than the mazaki, how would you say the heat treat is different???


ashy2classy said:


> Congrats on the new Mazaki! I really want to order a Mazaki KU 180mm petty from RS, but my bank account is in a lot of pain so I have to resist. Enjoy!


hahaha, didn't you just sell off a kasumi petty??? getting itchy fingers again???


parbaked said:


> That's a really sweet looking knife, in the KU finish, but you really shouldn't cut your spaghetti...


this Ku finish is unique and i've not seen a "polished" Ku before, you really have to see it in person to really appreciate it. the way its all hand polished makes every Ku and kasumi pattern different, like a unique hamon in every honyaki.


----------



## panda

Hinoura steel has more pure feeling, very dense almost honyaki like, gets stupid sharp. Retention is good on both.


----------



## sac36555

Masaki knives are in stock at JNS. With the conversion rate being so good for USD right now, a 240mm is only $225 with free shipping!!!! Hard to beat!


----------



## DitmasPork

sac36555 said:


> Masaki knives are in stock at JNS. With the conversion rate being so good for USD right now, a 240mm is only $225 with free shipping!!!! Hard to beat!



+1 :doublethumbsup: Love my Maz!


----------



## ThinMan

panda said:


> fyi mutsumi hinoura and munetoshi heat treat of white#2 is also hard as hell. i've had all three and grind of mazaki was the best of the bunch. i'd give steel to hinoura.



Panda:

Are you still in love with the Maz?


----------



## panda

I still think Maz is the best bargain, but it doesn't excite me so I have moved on from it. Safe vs sexy, I'm a risk taker so naturally I go for the latter.


----------



## ThinMan

panda said:


> I still think Maz is the best bargain, but it doesn't excite me so I have moved on from it. Safe vs sexy, I'm a risk taker so naturally I go for the latter.



Whats your new love?


----------



## Badgertooth

Hahahahaha. My name is Panda and Ill be starting a hype fire then walking away because Im bored of the knife Ive hyped thus maintaining some kind of aloof hypebeast knifedickery


----------



## panda

What can I say I'm a trend setter not a follower.

I want to get another hinoura, the migaki version and knock the shoulders off. But that's a huge project so that's gonna have to wait. I have a bunch of new toys right now so who knows which I'll fall in love with.

I'll say this. Pretty impressed with masashi sld. Yoshikane prodigy went off and became his own.


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> I still think Maz is the best bargain, but it doesn't excite me so I have moved on from it. Safe vs sexy, I'm a risk taker so naturally I go for the latter.



Did you end up selling it or just not using it.


----------



## lemeneid

I must say, I'm really pleased with the edge retention on the Mazaki. I planned and prepped a dinner party for the weekend so I could test out the edge. At the start of the week I put a 6000 Arashiyama edge on it and it is ridiculously easy to sharpen. So this week its been through the whole gamut of food from tomatoes for salsa, cabbage for coleslaw, potatoes, crusty breads, barbecued ribs, chicken wings, crusty steaks. The only care that has gone into this knife is stropping on newspaper or cork. At the end of this week, its probably about 95% similar to a fresh edge. Really happy with it now.

Only thing not going for this knife now is that ugly brown patina on the kasumi. The rest of my edge is blue as can be though hahaha


----------



## panda

jville - just sold it yesterday. 
my current loves are a duet. 240mm marko 52100 as the finesse knife, and 250mm mario w2 as the workhorse. all i'm missing now is a workpony (middle), waiting on kippington to start pumping those out.
bulk prep knife is 240 masashi sld (has the best ground tip of all my knives), which basically replaced 270 takeda i got rid of. apparently i can't live without a tall thin knife in the kit, lol.


----------



## Jville

panda said:


> jville - just sold it yesterday.
> my current loves are a duet. 240mm marko 52100 as the finesse knife, and 250mm mario w2 as the workhorse. all i'm missing now is a workpony (middle), waiting on kippington to start pumping those out.
> bulk prep knife is 240 masashi sld (has the best ground tip of all my knives), which basically replaced 270 takeda i got rid of. apparently i can't live without a tall thin knife in the kit, lol.



Yeah kind of makes sense going to that masashi from the takeda. I've been curious about them. They always looked interesting. I'm curious how the food release is on those, aren't they mirror polished? I've been using that kippington hook grind knive. Quite the interesting tool. When it comes to the tool aspect it's spot on in so many ways, with often magical food release. Still Loving my mazaki although admittedly it's not getting much action lately. The food release is what's going to keep it around for me. I don't think the thinner ones like the one from cktg that I used move me in the same way. Those style I will pass on, even though they r still high quality knives, especially for the price.


----------



## Dendrobatez

I ended up getting a mazaki kiritsuke from aframes, I didn't like it at first. The handle was massive, the kanji was raised and sharp almost like a rasp, the spine would hit the stone when thinking the bevel, and it wedged something feirce in anything taller than 1". I hand sanded with a stiff drywall sanding block wrapped in paper all the way to 8k, replaced the handle, and now it's my most used knife. I've used both the clean-cut and cktg knives and the clean-cut is by far the nicest fit and finish, the kiritsuke though is well worth the $200ish if you're willing to put in an hour or 2 of work.


----------



## V1P

Has anyone here tried the nakiris? A few different sizes in kasumi and kurouchi. Just looking for feedback.


----------



## Choppin

Also curious about the nakiri... looks great


----------



## Xenif

Also intersted to hear some feedback on the Nakiri, especially the KU


----------



## labor of love

So what do you guys think of the KU finish on mazakis? I see some gyutos in stock and I’m wondering if it’s pretty thick or if it’s flakes off quick like moritaka, munetoshi, tojiro wh2 (cheapo).


----------



## minibatataman

labor of love said:


> So what do you guys think of the KU finish on mazakis? I see some gyutos in stock and I’m wondering if it’s pretty thick or if it’s flakes off quick like moritaka, munetoshi, tojiro wh2 (cheapo).


Is the KU on the mune really as bad as tojiros?


----------



## lemeneid

No problem with the Ku on my Mazaki, but I did sand it off and removed the Kasumi too. Too much of a hassle to maintain the kasumi so I took it off along with the ku.


----------



## Gregmega

I picked up the nashiji on the KW sale and it’s super sturdy. Only one I don’t have yet is the ku. 

I have a feeling that there’s no real intentional difference between all the lines sold under different brands other than that they’re handmade (of course except for the profile change a while back). Of the four that I have (from all the various vendors), they have variances but none so dramatic that I’d say the sellers requested different specs. More likely the variances are live changes as he evolves.... my JNS is a complete beast, but my buddy Otto got a cow of a knife, and they’re essentially from the same batch. Thus far my favorite is probably the old profile CC for whole package reasons. 

Nevertheless I can’t recall that I’ve ever picked up 4 gyutos from the same maker with such ‘luck’.... oh wait, except maybe Shigs [emoji12]


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> So what do you guys think of the KU finish on mazakis? I see some gyutos in stock and I’m wondering if it’s pretty thick or if it’s flakes off quick like moritaka, munetoshi, tojiro wh2 (cheapo).


I've also wondered about the durability of the Maz KU finish. Personally I prefer the look of the Maz Nashiji finish, wished they were in stock!
https://www.echefknife.com/product/yoshihiro-nashiji-high-carbon-gyuto/


----------



## labor of love

minibatataman said:


> Is the KU on the mune really as bad as tojiros?


My munetoshi started flaking off immediately.


----------



## DitmasPork

Gregmega said:


> I picked up the nashiji on the KW sale and it’s super sturdy. Only one I don’t have yet is the ku.
> 
> I have a feeling that there’s no real intentional difference between all the lines sold under different brands other than that they’re handmade (of course except for the profile change a while back). Of the four that I have (from all the various vendors), they have variances but none so dramatic that I’d say the sellers requested different specs. More likely the variances are live changes as he evolves.... my JNS is a complete beast, but my buddy Otto got a cow of a knife, and they’re essentially from the same batch. Thus far my favorite is probably the old profile CC for whole package reasons.
> 
> Nevertheless I can’t recall that I’ve ever picked up 4 gyutos from the same maker with such ‘luck’.... oh wait, except maybe Shigs [emoji12]



I've got the CC (recent) and JNS (old profile new grind)—both behave very similarly in characteristics. Visually, it looks like the Razorsharp version does have a taller machi—it's also a W2 clad in SS. Waiting with bated breath on what Mazakis will will be in five year's time.


----------



## labor of love

Yeah razorsharp not offering a 240mm in stainless clad is really breaking my balls.


----------



## Xenif

My KU nakiri so far stayed intact, although it came with splotches of missig/ground off coating [emoji28]. The Munes have coating feels like it was applied by crayons, it rubs off on knife racks and when you clean it with a towel. However, they look kinda cool with the textured finish and KU rubbed off.

Are all the Mazaki grind the same ? Between the finishes and steel types?


----------



## Gregmega

DitmasPork said:


> I've got the CC (recent) and JNS (old profile new grind)—both behave very similarly in characteristics. Visually, it looks like the Razorsharp version does have a taller machi—it's also a W2 clad in SS. Waiting with bated breath on what Mazakis will will be in five year's time.



Couldn’t agree more. I think he’s experimenting a bit between batches, but cutting/grind-wise he’s been on target. It’ll be awesome to see him settle into a completely unique voice all his own. I’m already hooked.


----------



## Gregmega

Xenif said:


> Are all the Mazaki grind the same ? Between the finishes and steel types?



From the ones I have, they all feel about the same in performance other than all being uniquely handmade and having their own personalities. Dude is evolving with every batch though, a very cool thing to be witness to.


----------



## bkultra

labor of love said:


> So what do you guys think of the KU finish on mazakis? I see some gyutos in stock and I’m wondering if it’s pretty thick or if it’s flakes off quick like moritaka, munetoshi, tojiro wh2 (cheapo).



@labor of love I have a 240 nashiji (CC "Mantoku" profile) if you want to borrow it. Send me a PM because life is crazy and I don't check the threads often.


----------



## labor of love

Thanks BK, I really just want a ginsanko version. If I can’t find one eventually I’ll try and find a KU maybe. Im really not a soft iron kind of guy.


----------



## labor of love

TBH I’ve already used a Maz similar to yours but without the nashiji finish. I know it’s a performer. 
Thanks again.


----------



## DitmasPork

Mazaki W2 Nashiji Gyuto 210mm is back in stock at KW.
https://knifewear.com/products/maza...uto 210mm&bis_id=XopWqN&variant=4370961367068


----------



## ashy2classy

DitmasPork said:


> Mazaki W2 Nashiji Gyuto 210mm is back in stock at KW.
> https://knifewear.com/products/mazaki-w2-nashiji-gyuto-210mm?utm_source=back-in-stock&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=stock-notification&utm_content=Mazaki W2 Nashiji Gyuto 210mm&bis_id=XopWqN&variant=4370961367068



Gone...


----------



## DitmasPork

ashy2classy said:


> Gone...


Geez, KW emailed me an alert about a half hour ago!!! Did they get a shipment of just one knife?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Glad I got Kasumi from K&S when I had the chance. If a stainless Ginsan model comes out from James, I will grab one the instant they appear.


----------



## Cyrilix

Has anyone that has tried the gyuto or nakiri compared it to Watanabe's equivalents?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Cyrilix said:


> Has anyone that has tried the gyuto or nakiri compared it to Watanabe's equivalents?


Yep, both do a great job. Your not gonna find Any huge difference.


----------



## Cyrilix

Chicagohawkie said:


> Yep, both do a great job. Your not gonna find Any huge difference.



Thanks. I have a couple of Watanabe Pros, a nakiri and a suji. Shinichi is my go to for middleweight blue #2 knives. I wanted to try some other steels though.


----------



## panda

DitmasPork said:


> Geez, KW emailed me an alert about a half hour ago!!! Did they get a shipment of just one knife?


people probably had pre-orders.


----------



## Gregmega

Is anybody aware of/have the stainless clad? Was it only razorsharp? If so was it indeed stainless clad with white core?


----------



## labor of love

Gregmega said:


> Is anybody aware of/have the stainless clad? Was it only razorsharp? If so was it indeed stainless clad with white core?


Only razor sharp. Wh2 core. Only gyuto size was 210mm. 
Side note: Where dem ginsanko maz restocks at???


----------



## khashy

Some Mazaki action

 https://www.instagram.com/p/BtlXiz3hM75/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1jflsq5ms3ncx


----------



## HRC_64

Gregmega said:


> Is anybody aware of/have the stainless clad? Was it only razorsharp? If so was it indeed stainless clad with white core?



IIRC, there is one in BST right now


----------



## Elliot

So far, I have the 270 from the latest batch of JNS. It's a freaking murderer. Very happy with it. Now, to set the table, I'm not full Mazaki Train like many seem to be right now. However, he is a great young maker and the valueerformance ration on his knives are really strong. Right up there with Watanabe in my opinion. 

I am considering adding a 210, but unsure if I want to go Cleancut or right back to JNS. Seems like everyone else is sort of sold out. Might be worth waiting for his next evolution as well, but who knows how far away that will be.


----------



## Viggetorr

egolan said:


> So far, I have the 270 from the latest batch of JNS. It's a freaking murderer. Very happy with it. Now, to set the table, I'm not full Mazaki Train like many seem to be right now. However, he is a great young maker and the valueerformance ration on his knives are really strong. Right up there with Watanabe in my opinion.
> 
> I am considering adding a 210, but unsure if I want to go Cleancut or right back to JNS. Seems like everyone else is sort of sold out. Might be worth waiting for his next evolution as well, but who knows how far away that will be.



If they're from the same generation they are probably more or less the same, performance wise. JNS use D-handles, CC octagonals.


----------



## ashy2classy

egolan said:


> So far, I have the 270 from the latest batch of JNS. It's a freaking murderer. Very happy with it. Now, to set the table, I'm not full Mazaki Train like many seem to be right now. However, he is a great young maker and the valueerformance ration on his knives are really strong. Right up there with Watanabe in my opinion.
> 
> I am considering adding a 210, but unsure if I want to go Cleancut or right back to JNS. Seems like everyone else is sort of sold out. Might be worth waiting for his next evolution as well, but who knows how far away that will be.



CleanCut...F&F is better.


----------



## Elliot

ashy2classy said:


> CleanCut...F&F is better.



I have actually heard that and almost feel like it would be fun to get the different one just for the sake of a mini comparison. Though I am not sure it's fair comparing the 270+ to a 210.


----------



## ashy2classy

egolan said:


> I have actually heard that and almost feel like it would be fun to get the different one just for the sake of a mini comparison. Though I am not sure it's fair comparing the 270+ to a 210.



Do it. The models from CC are noticeably nicer, even if they don't perform any better. You'll just need to email them to make the purchase. They don't offer checkout to the USA (at least they didn't when I purchased my knives from them).


----------



## stevef

ashy2classy said:


> Do it. The models from CC are noticeably nicer, even if they don't perform any better. You'll just need to email them to make the purchase. They don't offer checkout to the USA (at least they didn't when I purchased my knives from them).



Right. Email them; they'll send you a PayPal invoice at the minus-VAT price (but then add shipping).


----------



## bahamaroot

Handles are Oak from CC too and not Ho wood. They will give you a price that includes shipping before sending the invoice.


----------



## F-Flash

Is there any mazaki gyutos 220-230 with 50+ height anywhere?


----------



## DitmasPork

bahamaroot said:


> Handles are Oak from CC too and not Ho wood. They will give you a price that includes shipping before sending the invoice.


The handle on my 220 Maz from CC is keyaki wood according to Chris via email.


----------



## Viggetorr

DitmasPork said:


> The handle on my 220 Maz from CC is keyaki wood according to Chris via email.



Yeah, pretty sure CC's handles is keyaki.


----------



## bahamaroot

DitmasPork said:


> The handle on my 220 Maz from CC is keyaki wood according to Chris via email.


If Chris says it is then that's what it is. It's definitely nicer than Ho wood in any case.


----------



## DitmasPork

Seeing this video has me wanting a Mazaki suji. I think that Daniel has some serious sharpening skillz!
https://www.instagram.com/p/Btw7GYMBPfz/


----------



## Hbeernink

ashy2classy said:


> Do it. The models from CC are noticeably nicer, even if they don't perform any better. You'll just need to email them to make the purchase. They don't offer checkout to the USA (at least they didn't when I purchased my knives from them).




I now have both the JNS and the CC edition of the new Mazaki 240. Knives are almost identical with a few very minor differences. CC is slightly longer blade length (0.25-0.5cm) and a bit thinner at the spine toward the tip. This probably is batch variation. No noticeable performance difference that I can feeel - have not hit the stones with the cc version yet, but the JNS was very well ground and sharpened very well.

CC looks bead blasted, JNS is stone finished. Handle on the CC version (oak octagonal) is really nice, and I've already replaced the handle on the JNS with a rustic oiled Wenge octagonal version.

I also picked up a 300mm suji - haven't used it as much as the 240's, but it's a cutter for sure. Rather tall but very thin. Liking it!


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Hbeernink said:


> I now have both the JNS and the CC edition of the new Mazaki 240. Knives are almost identical with a few very minor differences. CC is slightly longer blade length (0.25-0.5cm) and a bit thinner at the spine toward the tip. This probably is batch variation. No noticeable performance difference that I can feeel - have not hit the stones with the cc version yet, but the JNS was very well ground and sharpened very well.
> 
> CC looks bead blasted, JNS is stone finished. Handle on the CC version (oak octagonal) is really nice, and I've already replaced the handle on the JNS with a rustic oiled Wenge octagonal version.
> 
> I also picked up a 300mm suji - haven't used it as much as the 240's, but it's a cutter for sure. Rather tall but very thin. Liking it!
> 
> View attachment 48571




It seriously seems like no two batches are alike. Guess it’s meant to be that way, but I’d think you would want to find consistency if you want gain relevance. Do this in the NFL and you’d be yesterday’s news real quick. ya, I know.


----------



## Hbeernink

Chicagohawkie said:


> It seriously seems like no two batches are alike. Guess it’s meant to be that way, but I’d think you would want to find consistency if you want gain relevance. Do this in the NFL and you’d be yesterday’s news real quick. ya, I know.



Doesn't bother me much. I see variability in all handmade/ handforged knives - even the high-end guys costing much much more. Doesn't seem to cause TF much grief (but bordering on ridiculous in some cases), and even high-end 'fit and finish' blades like kagekiyo and konosuke have some variability between batches.


----------



## Hbeernink

here's a better view of the two side-by-side. Realize the first picture was a bit misleading as it was taken at an angle (making the size difference between the 240s more exaggerated, and the 300 looks small by comparison). The differences are pretty small - no impact to performance. however, you can see the differences in fit/finish between vendors. I would buy either one again, no worries.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Hbeernink said:


> here's a better view of the two side-by-side. Realize the first picture was a bit misleading as it was taken at an angle (making the size difference between the 240s more exaggerated, and the 300 looks small by comparison). The differences are pretty small - no impact to performance. however, you can see the differences in fit/finish between vendors. I would buy either one again, no worries.
> 
> View attachment 48572



You can see a lot of variance in the two knives. Which do you like better?


----------



## Hbeernink

Chicagohawkie said:


> You can see a lot of variance in the two knives. Which do you like better?



CC wins, but not based on performance

visually, yes good amount of differences. Many of the differences are really cosmetic, probably reflecting cleanup that cc does after they get the knife (Maksim is pretty straightforward that he keeps the rough finish deliberately). There are some measurable differences however.

Honestly I don't feel any difference in performance yet - haven't used the cc (left) on stones yet, and haven't cut as much with that one. I'm not a complete mazaki shill, but do like them quite a bit - especially for the price. It's a go-to for me now. 

If I were pressed to choose, I'd take the cc one- I don't like "D" handles at all, so that's really the decision maker, and the cc handle is really quite nice. I can clean up the f/f, polish, etc., so that's not much of an issue for me, and I love to sharpen... (the cc one had a burr and a small nick in the heel that is a simple cleanup, so not really 'clean' out of the box - I bought the JNS one second hand from Ashy2Classy and it was good on the edge, not sure if he sharpened it)


----------



## HRC_64

Those profiles are quite different if you look at them closely
...not sure if its intentional or not


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Hbeernink said:


> CC wins, but not based on performance
> 
> visually, yes good amount of differences. Many of the differences are really cosmetic, probably reflecting cleanup that cc does after they get the knife (Maksim is pretty straightforward that he keeps the rough finish deliberately). There are some measurable differences however.
> 
> Honestly I don't feel any difference in performance yet - haven't used the cc (left) on stones yet, and haven't cut as much with that one. I'm not a complete mazaki shill, but do like them quite a bit - especially for the price. It's a go-to for me now.
> 
> If I were pressed to choose, I'd take the cc one- I don't like "D" handles at all, so that's really the decision maker, and the cc handle is really quite nice. I can clean up the f/f, polish, etc., so that's not much of an issue for me, and I love to sharpen... (the cc one had a burr and a small nick in the heel that is a simple cleanup, so not really 'clean' out of the box - I bought the JNS one second hand from Ashy2Classy and it was good on the edge, not sure if he sharpened it)



The early Mazaki era has certainly been interesting. When first became aware of them I really had no interest whatsoever. It was only when I saw the k&s profile that I felt compelled to try it. Glad I did, it’s been an unbelievable acquisition especially for the money. Have no desire to get any others with the exception of a stainless variant and only if it’s comparable to what I have. Have fun with yours, they certainly are nice.


----------



## Gregmega

Chicagohawkie said:


> It seriously seems like no two batches are alike. Guess it’s meant to be that way, but I’d think you would want to find consistency if you want gain relevance. Do this in the NFL and you’d be yesterday’s news real quick. ya, I know.



Except that every batch is full of great performance. I have 3 gens and not a dud among them. Looks, yeah, all over the map. But they all essentially kick XL a$$ in the same way.


----------



## Gregmega

HRC_64 said:


> Those profiles are quite different if you look at them closely
> ...not sure if its intentional or not



The profiles aren’t different at all, they’re essentially the same identical shape. But the bead blast finish is misleading. I’d bet dollars to donuts the ‘shinogi’ lines and grinds/bevels are roughly the same too. 

I wet sanded 2 of mine down and when the shinogi disappears you’d think they were the same knife.


----------



## HRC_64

Gregmega said:


> The profiles aren’t different at all...



overlay them in photoshop...


----------



## Gregmega

Uuuuuuhhhh no. Nobody has time for that[emoji23][emoji23]. I’ll go with they’re close enough to be recognized as being from the same maker though... 

I guess my point is that the bead blasting plays tricks on the optics. As far as grind/bevel/performance is concerned, I’ve had no complaints in the variations, at least as for a 200$ banger is concerned). 

He can keep changing styles and profiles on the journey to his ultimate style and I’ll still buy them. Best bang out there, variants and inconsistencies in aesthetics don’t scare me off the best performer in its class.


----------



## Interapid101

It could be the pic, but the profiles look quite different to me p, too. Especially near the tip.


----------



## Danceinbr

Has anyone ever come to a conclusion on whether there is any discernable benefit to the charcoal heat treatment advertised on the JNS Mazaki's vs the others from CC or K&S for example?


----------



## Bcos17

Just picked up a 210mm (216mm) Stainless clad W2. I already owned a 215mm Cleancut version. Really interested to see how these compare once I get some time to use the new one. First impressions... Length is similar within 1-2mm, both exactly 50mm at the heel. The CC version's tip seems to point down just a touch vs the stainless which seems to point straight out from the handle. The stainless also seems to be a bit shorter from spine to edge in the couple inches from the tip going back. The spine of the CC tapers pretty aggressively in the 2 inches from the heel going forward and then slowly thins out from there whereas the Stainless has a more gradual taper down the spine and maintains more thickness until close to the tip, similar to a Toyama. The grinds on both seem pretty similar. Has anyone compared the stainless to the standard w2s before? I'll report back after I use the stainless for a few days but I'm guessing its going to be pretty close.

Stainless on the left with the dark handle, and Keyaki handle from CC w2 iron clad on the right.


----------



## Gregmega

Bcos17 said:


> Just picked up a 210mm (216mm) Stainless clad W2. I already owned a 215mm Cleancut version. Really interested to see how these compare once I get some time to use the new one. First impressions... Length is similar within 1-2mm, both exactly 50mm at the heel. The CC version's tip seems to point down just a touch vs the stainless which seems to point straight out from the handle. The stainless also seems to be a bit shorter from spine to edge in the couple inches from the tip going back. The spine of the CC tapers pretty aggressively in the 2 inches from the heel going forward and then slowly thins out from there whereas the Stainless has a more gradual taper down the spine and maintains more thickness until close to the tip, similar to a Toyama. The grinds on both seem pretty similar. Has anyone compared the stainless to the standard w2s before? I'll report back after I use the stainless for a few days but I'm guessing its going to be pretty close.
> 
> Stainless on the left with the dark handle, and Keyaki handle from CC w2 iron clad on the right.
> View attachment 50747



Interested to hear your thoughts. This is the only one I haven’t tried


----------



## Gregmega

Danceinbr said:


> Has anyone ever come to a conclusion on whether there is any discernable benefit to the charcoal heat treatment advertised on the JNS Mazaki's vs the others from CC or K&S for example?



I really think with all the Maz I’ve tried, the heat treat is beyond batch to batch, it’s knife to knife. I can’t find any discernible difference, and to that point, the original CC version with the bullnose is still the best all-around of the bunch- including heat treat. That one has the best wear resistance of any white I’ve ever used. Next to Hinoura anyway.


----------



## labor of love

Greg it’s funny that you say that because the mazaki that @panda purchased and subsequently started this thread with had a heat treat that we didn’t find to be favorable. It was one of the early CC bullnose ones. Must’ve gotten a bad apple I suppose.


----------



## Gregmega

labor of love said:


> Greg it’s funny that you say that because the mazaki that @panda purchased and subsequently started this thread with had a heat treat that we didn’t find to be favorable. It was one of the early CC bullnose ones. Must’ve gotten a bad apple I suppose.



Yeah, that is funny. Like I said, I really believe it’s knife to knife. My first is still my best from that original group from CC. But every one after that is a bit different. Jns is the next best. But if anything, it’s been a hell of a ride to be on.


----------



## labor of love

The future is bright for Mazaki. I can’t wait to see what his stuff looks like 10 years from now.


----------



## Gregmega

Oh man. Me too. 

Side note- not to derail, but his retention on white (when it’s on) is about as good as I’ve seen. Anyone else have these magic powers, blue or white? (please don’t say TF[emoji23])

Edit: started a new thread for this topic.


----------



## wind88

TFTFTF


----------



## Chicagohawkie

wind88 said:


> TFTFTF


Ha Ha, a homonym with the other meaning being : Full of defects! Ha Ha!


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> The future is bright for Mazaki. I can’t wait to see what his stuff looks like 10 years from now.



I know you were curious about stainless Mazaki's, Maxim just put up Maz Stainless Nakiris:
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/mazaki-stainless-kasumi-nakiri-165mm/


----------



## labor of love

Nakiri? Nah.


----------



## labor of love

Although it is promising that Mazaki is still making stainless. I was starting to get worried that was a one time thing.


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> Although it is promising that Mazaki is still making stainless. I was starting to get worried that was a one time thing.



Maz still seems to be finding his groove. My JNS and CC are VERY different. Your earlier post mentioned wanting to see his work in 10 years, yeah me too, would love to see him crank out some mono-steel gyutos!


----------



## F-Flash

Mazaki honyakis. I'm in.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

K&S Mazaki 210 incoming! Number 2!


----------



## Bcos17

labor of love said:


> Although it is promising that Mazaki is still making stainless. I was starting to get worried that was a one time thing.



I'm hoping he does more ginsanko with JNS. I bought the stainless clad w2 210 gyuto from RS and its fantastic. Just as good, if not better, than my regular iron clad w2 from Clean-cut. I'd love to get my hands on a 240 with stainless cladding if he ever makes one or a ginsanko.


----------



## labor of love

Bcos17 said:


> I'm hoping he does more ginsanko with JNS. I bought the stainless clad w2 210 gyuto from RS and its fantastic. Just as good, if not better, than my regular iron clad w2 from Clean-cut. I'd love to get my hands on a 240 with stainless cladding if he ever makes one or a ginsanko.


Yeah join the club. They’ll be sold out in minutes haha


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Bcos17 said:


> I'm hoping he does more ginsanko with JNS. I bought the stainless clad w2 210 gyuto from RS and its fantastic. Just as good, if not better, than my regular iron clad w2 from Clean-cut. I'd love to get my hands on a 240 with stainless cladding if he ever makes one or a ginsanko.



Wonder if the other venders are going to receive the stainless editions? I’d like to check one out.


----------



## labor of love

I need to make a couple of moves but I should have a Mazaki stainless petty by the end of the week.


----------



## DisconnectedAG

Yay, a Mazaki thread. I got the 210 gyuto from Knifewear's garage sale. Edge OOTB was ok. I didn't know what to expect taper-wise but really dig the strong distal taper. The profile has changed a lot from when this thread started. My first (home cook) proper preps session with this knife was four onions and a box and a half of tomatoes, and the cladding reacted immediately. 

One of the things that I wonder about is the ongoing reactivity. I know iron cladding is more reactive overall, but towards the end of the prep session there was some staining on the onions. Is this something that goes away? (I cook fairly clean, have a towel on the side that I wipe the knife on periodically and store them dry and proper).


----------



## ian

DisconnectedAG said:


> Yay, a Mazaki thread. I got the 210 gyuto from Knifewear's garage sale. Edge OOTB was ok. I didn't know what to expect taper-wise but really dig the strong distal taper. The profile has changed a lot from when this thread started. My first (home cook) proper preps session with this knife was four onions and a box and a half of tomatoes, and the cladding reacted immediately.
> 
> One of the things that I wonder about is the ongoing reactivity. I know iron cladding is more reactive overall, but towards the end of the prep session there was some staining on the onions. Is this something that goes away? (I cook fairly clean, have a towel on the side that I wipe the knife on periodically and store them dry and proper).



If you let the patina develop sufficiently, the knife won’t stain the onions anymore.


----------



## DisconnectedAG

ian said:


> If you let the patina develop sufficiently, the knife won’t stain the onions anymore.



Thanks, that's good to know. I'll keep at it. Was asking mostly because I've had my Moritaka for a while, and that still stains. Maybe I've been too rigorous in the cleaning and not let enough of a patina develop. I think I'm still doing that thing where I read about how to have a towel on the side, wipe the blade frequently and then dry and oil, and I'm overdoing it, so the reaction with the iron is taking a long time.


----------



## MrHiggins

DisconnectedAG said:


> Thanks, that's good to know. I'll keep at it. Was asking mostly because I've had my Moritaka for a while, and that still stains. Maybe I've been too rigorous in the cleaning and not let enough of a patina develop. I think I'm still doing that thing where I read about how to have a towel on the side, wipe the blade frequently and then dry and oil, and I'm overdoing it, so the reaction with the iron is taking a long time.


Yeah, it doesn't seem like you're not letting a protective patina develop. Cut up some warm cooked chicken or other protein and let the knife sit for a few minutes. (Don't do this with onion or tomato or other acidic food, just protein). Then gently wash in some warm water and dish soap. After that, I bet you'll be good with regard to the reactivity. Check out the "my favorite color is blue" patina thread for inspiration.


----------



## ian

Yea, I let my iron clad knives get pretty dark. If you are letting the patina develop naturally it won’t cover all of the blade, so you might still get some token staining later on when onions comes in contact with parts of the knife that are still exposed. But you will probably stop worrying about it.
Mazakis are super reactive, though, in my experience.

I’m of the school “if it’s not rust, it’s good!” I wash/dry when I’m done, and I don’t let food stay stuck to the blade during prep (because then the patina looks ugly), but otherwise I chill out about it. Then again, I only cook at home, so my prep sessions are usually short.


----------



## Gregmega

DisconnectedAG said:


> Yay, a Mazaki thread. I got the 210 gyuto from Knifewear's garage sale. Edge OOTB was ok. I didn't know what to expect taper-wise but really dig the strong distal taper. The profile has changed a lot from when this thread started. My first (home cook) proper preps session with this knife was four onions and a box and a half of tomatoes, and the cladding reacted immediately.
> 
> One of the things that I wonder about is the ongoing reactivity. I know iron cladding is more reactive overall, but towards the end of the prep session there was some staining on the onions. Is this something that goes away? (I cook fairly clean, have a towel on the side that I wipe the knife on periodically and store them dry and proper).



Maz isn’t the worst I’ve had with reactivity, but a couple I’ve owned were on the sensitive side. Just be glad you got the nashiji and hold on (my first migaki was like a newborn, cried at everything). Also a tip- after using it (if you can- warm proteins or tofu work really well), hold it under super hot tap water for a minute in between drying. Helps to stabilize the patina. I’ll do this several times over the course of prep inside the first 20 mins of using for the first time and it speeds up the process. But either way, those new nashiji are legit.


----------



## Chuckles

I just saw this thread. It’s like finding a new TV show that is in its 5th season. Profile and distal taper look great. Just not into over hardened white steel. Anybody experience microchipping? Appears to be sold out every where anyhow. Would love to play with one someday.


----------



## DisconnectedAG

MrHiggins said:


> Yeah, it doesn't seem like you're not letting a protective patina develop. Cut up some warm cooked chicken or other protein and let the knife sit for a few minutes. (Don't do this with onion or tomato or other acidic food, just protein). Then gently wash in some warm water and dish soap. After that, I bet you'll be good with regard to the reactivity. Check out the "my favorite color is blue" patina thread for inspiration.



Thanks, this is really useful. Will try this.


----------



## DisconnectedAG

Gregmega said:


> Maz isn’t the worst I’ve had with reactivity, but a couple I’ve owned were on the sensitive side. Just be glad you got the nashiji and hold on (my first migaki was like a newborn, cried at everything). Also a tip- after using it (if you can- warm proteins or tofu work really well), hold it under super hot tap water for a minute in between drying. Helps to stabilize the patina. I’ll do this several times over the course of prep inside the first 20 mins of using for the first time and it speeds up the process. But either way, those new nashiji are legit.


Thanks, will defo give this a go.


----------



## labor of love

Chuckles said:


> I just saw this thread. It’s like finding a new TV show that is in its 5th season. Profile and distal taper look great. Just not into over hardened white steel. Anybody experience microchipping? Appears to be sold out every where anyhow. Would love to play with one someday.


They pop up on BST quite often. Mazaki is offered by like half a dozen vendors with varying levels of finish, handle options and profiles. If I were you I’d figure out which version you prefer and keep an eye out.


----------



## crocca86

Mazakis family getting bigger


----------



## Xenif

Chuckles said:


> I just saw this thread. It’s like finding a new TV show that is in its 5th season. Profile and distal taper look great. Just not into over hardened white steel. Anybody experience microchipping? Appears to be sold out every where anyhow. Would love to play with one someday.


There was another Mazaki thread (spinoff?) Where users were comparing their HT of diffrent Mazaki , it seems like it ranges from 60-64ish depending on the vendor ....

I have a JNS charcoal version Nakiri, on stones it feels a bit harder than say a Ginga but softer than a Munetoshi or Hinoura. So far chipping is not an issue for me, and I ve been using it to hand mince duck meat.


----------



## refcast

Xenif said:


> I have a JNS charcoal version Nakiri, on stones it feels a bit harder than say a Ginga but softer than a Munetoshi or Hinoura. So far chipping is not an issue for me, and I ve been using it to hand mince duck meat.



Kinda off tangent, but with those white steels, how does each feel? Of those I've only tried the Ginga, and I actually think it's a decent white steel for what it is. I imagine the Hinoura and Munetoshi are the most resistant to sharpen. I have a forged sakai knife in White 2 and it feels a bit touch harder than the Ginga in white, but not a whole league harder-feeling. Like half a league.


----------



## Gregmega

Chuckles said:


> I just saw this thread. It’s like finding a new TV show that is in its 5th season. Profile and distal taper look great. Just not into over hardened white steel. Anybody experience microchipping? Appears to be sold out every where anyhow. Would love to play with one someday.



You know I’ve had a little trouble, but I’m notoriously hard on my knives, so I’d easily say it was more my fault than the heat treat being aggressive. I will say that the way he treats his knives lend themselves to really terrific edge retention for a white, and they come back to life in a quick way. Also the edge it takes it’s borderline violent. Super fun knives to use, sits up there with few other brands in value for money. There’s definitely a reason why so many of these guys own several from the many lines he’s done.


----------



## Gregmega

labor of love said:


> They pop up on BST quite often. Mazaki is offered by like half a dozen vendors with varying levels of finish, handle options and profiles. If I were you I’d figure out which version you prefer and keep an eye out.



I do believe he’s at 8 different vendors last I counted (cktg, cc, kw, jns, yoshihiro, RS, kns, kh pdx). Think 2 210’s on bst at the moment. [emoji33]


----------



## bahamaroot

Chuckles said:


> ...Just not into over hardened white steel. Anybody experience microchipping?...


I've had a Mazaki from CC for over a year now and no microchipping that I can see. It holds it's edge very well and comes back sooo easy. Some of the best white steel I've used.


----------



## DitmasPork

Chuckles said:


> I just saw this thread. It’s like finding a new TV show that is in its 5th season. Profile and distal taper look great. Just not into over hardened white steel. Anybody experience microchipping? Appears to be sold out every where anyhow. Would love to play with one someday.



Go get one!

Mazaki ain't the best knife out there, but for me it's a perfect storm of affordable, accessible, distinct authorship, and performance. Profile, grind, aggressive distal for Mazaki are so distinct I can spot one at twenty paces. I've got two, both knifes very different from each other, made only 6 months apart—do think Mazaki was still finding himself as a maker, probably still is—dig supporting this young maker and going along for the ride.

I'm not a knife nerd so can't spot nuances in HT, or feel differences in hardness—but I've no problems with my Mazs, no chipping, sharpens easily. 

My first Maz had a rough finish, scratches galore on and below the shinogi; his older bullnose profile; a knife meant more for use than being looked at; still one of my fave knives, dig it more than new profile.

Surely Mazaki has limitations, arguably there are knives made with better steels, cooler and more comfortable handles, more finessed profiles, but to me it's a knife greater than the sum of its parts. Cheap enough that it won't hurt the wallet much, popular enough that one can sell it on BST without much problem.


----------



## Benjamin8732

My new 240 Gyuto just arrived from CC. 

I have been following this thread (which helped me decide to get it) and I can say that I am very happy with it!


----------



## J.C

Mazakis are on sale now at JNS web. Not a bad deal consider the free delivery if value above 1500dkk


----------



## Viggetorr

crocca86 said:


> Mazakis family getting bigger



Really regretting not getting a kurouchi nashiji while they were available!


----------



## Xenif

Mazaki. On. Sale. JNS.

This is a public service announcement


----------



## labor of love

Yeah maxim mentioned that he’s clearing space for new mazaki with new profile!!!


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Lol! I’m waiting for the standard version, the Deluxe version and of course the collectors version!


----------



## Gregmega

New profile?? So like number 19 now?? [emoji23]. Wake me up when the kikuryu or full western tang-handle comes in.


----------



## Gregmega

At 130$ I do wish I’d grabbed that yanagiba tho. But guys, don’t sleep on that 180 petty. Such a fun little knife for all purpose tasks.


----------



## DitmasPork

Xenif said:


> Mazaki. On. Sale. JNS.
> 
> This is a public service announcement


Profile of Maz gyuto on JNS looks very different. Strange IMO


----------



## labor of love

DitmasPork said:


> Profile of Maz gyuto on JNS looks very different. Strange IMO


Yes. Bring back the bullnose. Or whatever we’re calling the O.G. Mazaki


----------



## rickg17

See, for me the rather drastic changes over a short time is actually a disincentive to buy Mazaki. I get the "it's handmade, there will be some variation..." thing but having the profile change so much in a few months... nah. I'll just watch for now and if he settles on something he likes, see how it is.


----------



## Gregmega

labor of love said:


> Yes. Bring back the bullnose. Or whatever we’re calling the O.G. Mazaki



Bullnose. Ftw as the kids say these days.


----------



## crocca86

I just purchased one of the new 210 gyuto from JNS I’ll post some pictures when I get it


----------



## J.C

crocca86 said:


> I just purchased one of the new 210 gyuto from JNS I’ll post some pictures when I get it



I planned to just grab the 240 gyuto but my finger slipped and “accidentally” add on the 180 petty plus a roll from darkhardt. Now im broke


----------



## crocca86

J.C said:


> I planned to just grab the 240 gyuto but my finger slipped and “accidentally” add on the 180 petty plus a roll from darkhardt. Now im broke


I was hoping for the older more pointy version to restock but unfortunately it won’t


----------



## lemeneid

labor of love said:


> Yes. Bring back the bullnose. Or whatever we’re calling the O.G. Mazaki


You mean giant santoku?


----------



## labor of love

lemeneid said:


> You mean giant santoku?


Yes.


----------



## Jville

The togo ku i tried was phenemonal. I didnt care for the previous version from togo as much as the jns version at the same time, but neither were amazing all around cutters. The jns version had really good, nearing elite, food release. The newer version, ku i tried, was an all around cutting beast, losing some food release, but worth it imo.


----------



## labor of love

How is the KU finish on the Togo version? I wanted that particular one but the KU looked very light like it would flake off easy like munetoshi or cheapo tojiro KU.


----------



## labor of love

I guess what’s cool about mazaki is that we can be really picky with what we want and there’s so many versions you just find the one that works for you best.
I was also disappointed with the jns profiles I’m glad they’re being changed to something different. They look like kato workhorse profile which I also didn’t enjoy.


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> How is the KU finish on the Togo version? I wanted that particular one but the KU looked very light like it would flake off easy like munetoshi or cheapo tojiro KU.



I didnt use it long enough to get a feel for the ku. It was fine when possesesd it for a pass around, but thats all i coukd say. I heard someone else say it flaked off quickly.


----------



## Gregmega

labor of love said:


> How is the KU finish on the Togo version? I wanted that particular one but the KU looked very light like it would flake off easy like munetoshi or cheapo tojiro KU.



I have been using mine all week and the ku is coming off, especially nearer the bevel from heavy use and wiping. Nothing crazy, but to be expected with ‘parkerized’ ku knives. But it’s a fun knife. Just thinned it a touch and man it’s mean.


----------



## bahamaroot

Well, I have the 215mm and 245mm gyutos from CC and they are two of my favorite knives. They are without a doubt an excellent bang for the buck.


----------



## J.C

JNS mazakis just got restocked and still on the sale price. For those who missed it last time, now is your chance.


----------



## Jimbo1217

I have to mention the 240mm I got from JNS from the batch prior to this one (also was on sale) performs extremely well. Very thin behind the edge with good food release.

I am assuming the geometry has been tweaked a bit, and the profile distinctively different from the previous models. Overall I am happy with this purchase and would urge anyone with the thought of buying one to get one now!


----------



## MrHiggins

I pulled the trigger on the latest version that just came up at JNS. I'll have three different JNS versions to compare (first "bullnose", second "pointy with charcoal heat treat", and third "?whatever this new one is?"). We'll see!


----------



## childermass

For anyone interested: Aframestokyo has a 'used' 210mm Tesshu by Mazaki Kiritsuke.
I was in touch with Takeshi and he sent me some pictures. The knife looks as if it has seen only little use, if any, and was only sharpened once by Takeshi himself. I just didn’t take it because the profile is too flat for my taste, I didn’t really see that in the pictures of the original listing, but on the ones I got now you can see it clearly.
I don’t know the price, but if you ask him he will surely send some pictures and give you a quote.

One picture:


----------



## Darren Perkell

Great knife I have 2 from his last version and love them. Just ordered the 270 Sujihiki and 180 petty this morning. Excellent bang for the buck!


----------



## preizzo

childermass said:


> For anyone interested: Aframestokyo has a 'used' 210mm Tesshu by Mazaki Kiritsuke.
> I was in touch with Takeshi and he sent me some pictures. The knife looks as if it has seen only little use, if any, and was only sharpened once by Takeshi himself. I just didn’t take it because the profile is too flat for my taste, I didn’t really see that in the pictures of the original listing, but on the ones I got now you can see it clearly.
> I don’t know the price, but if you ask him he will surely send some pictures and give you a quote.
> 
> One picture:
> View attachment 54048


Hope is not the one with a ****ed up heat treat


----------



## Jon-cal

Darren Perkell said:


> Great knife I have 2 from his last version and love them. Just ordered the 270 Sujihiki and 180 petty this morning. Excellent bang for the buck!



I just ordered those 2 as well when they showed up a few days ago


----------



## BoostedGT

Has anyone tried the new JNS version?? Spine is almost in line with the tip, looks interesting. What are your thoughts?


----------



## Jon-cal

Wait, so these ones on sale are a new version? I thought the sale was to blow out stock to make way for a new 3rd (?) JNS version. Confused


----------



## J.C

Jon-cal said:


> Wait, so these ones on sale are a new version? I thought the sale was to blow out stock to make way for a new 3rd (?) JNS version. Confused



It could be just a different profile knife but with the same type of treatment and grind. If you look closely and compare it to the one on mazaki page, it has different type of tip and more belly.
As i know the 2nd version should be more like a santoku profile with thin grind. No idea about the latest version.
I pulled the trigger on the 240gyuto and 180petty because it looks different from what i have and like they said the more the merrier. Isn’t it?


----------



## MrHiggins

Jon-cal said:


> Wait, so these ones on sale are a new version? I thought the sale was to blow out stock to make way for a new 3rd (?) JNS version. Confused


The ones on sale have new/different photos compared to the ones JNS was selling a few months ago. The product page also adds the word "profile", whatever that indicates. The description is a just a cut/paste, so doesn't say it's a new version.

I just bought a 240 (waiting for it to be shipped), just to compare to the one I bought in October last year (which is just about my favorite knife). I'm hoping it's a new version, if only to see the progression. If it's the same, I may just keep it as a spare, I like it that much.

I'll let you know you when I get it...


----------



## Danceinbr

Just received a JNS Mazaki 240 gyutos from the new batch posted last week. I already have a 180 gyuto that is the santoku thin grind and a 210 that is the pointy charcoal quench. The brand new one has a higher tip with long decreasing radius edge with no true flat spot at all, very different and I'm guessing will need different cutting technique from the others. Further up the thread someone suggested it looks like a Kato workhorse. I did some research on that knife and yes it does appear very close in edge profile.


----------



## Jon-cal

MrHiggins said:


> The ones on sale have new/different photos compared to the ones JNS was selling a few months ago. The product page also adds the word "profile", whatever that indicates. The description is a just a cut/paste, so doesn't say it's a new version.
> 
> I just bought a 240 (waiting for it to be shipped), just to compare to the one I bought in October last year (which is just about my favorite knife). I'm hoping it's a new version, if only to see the progression. If it's the same, I may just keep it as a spare, I like it that much.
> 
> I'll let you know you when I get it...



Ah, ok I see that now. I also have a 240 from October of last year and absolutely love it. It’s the charcoal pointy version. Almost like a tall KS. My 270 is from December and seems to be pointy as well though the kanji on the left is stamped whereas the 240 is chiseled, if that means anything. I can’t say I’m a fan of how these new ones look with all that belly. I get why some people are kinda turned off on these knives with all the variation and different versions out there


----------



## QCDawg

preizzo said:


> Hope is not the one with a ****ed up heat treat


What Preizzo said.  I really like Takeshi...but I had a bad experience with a 210 Ktip. Kevin Pelligrino is my sharpening Angel.. and he said mine had a bad heat treat. Edge would crumble. Takeshi refunded me, he is a straight shooter. But he “thinks it’s just really thin”. So.. jus sayin.


----------



## Barclid

Taking the edge as thin as Kev does, you definitely separate the wheat from the chaff in terms of heat treat. When I was evening out Darren's TF Denka, there was a spot at the heel that kept crumbling while being no thinner than the rest of the knife.


----------



## refcast

Not entirely related, but has anyone noticed a difference in heat treat feel between larger and smaller knives? I know that some knives near the tip can have burrs that are stubborn at first. . . one knife I have kinda had an wire "edge" that crumbled near the tip before I sharpened enough away that it performed like the rest of the knife.


----------



## labor of love

Mazaki profile went from bad to worse.


----------



## Chuckles

This thread has everything. Reminds you of Kato at times and then now seems to be taking a Moritaka turn. 

Sounds like he is flying a little too close to the sun. 

He should figure out his sh!t and then change the name.


----------



## GoodMagic

Just received a 210 gyuto and 180 petty from this batch. The gyuto has a strange profile. The finish is very rough on the blade road. Reserving judgment for now, will see how they clean up and perform.


----------



## childermass

QCDawg said:


> What Preizzo said. [emoji677]️ I really like Takeshi...but I had a bad experience with a 210 Ktip. Kevin Pelligrino is my sharpening Angel.. and he said mine had a bad heat treat. Edge would crumble. Takeshi refunded me, he is a straight shooter. But he “thinks it’s just really thin”. So.. jus sayin.



I really hope it’s not that knife, as Takeshi told me a whole different story. He told me that the customer (pro cook) sent it back because his boss didn’t allow him to use a carbon steel knife in his kitchen. From my past experience with Takeshi I tend/want to believe him.
On the other hand he also said that the knife is very thin and if I were looking for something tough I should look for something else.
Anyway I ended up getting something different and was able to buy in Europe which will spare me the hassle with Austrian customs.


----------



## Gregmega

Couldn’t agree more with Labor and Chuckles. I was hot on this guy but was also in there early when he had the bullnose profile, which still is my favorite. Several changes and 12 Maz later-I can’t be bothered. 

Refcast- yes, I have. I’m not sure how much is a function of how he supposedly heat treats in charcoal for jns, or how much is inconsistency. But now my 180 petty is an edc since I got the edge where I like it, so much so I bought another for when this one goes down[emoji41]. 

But I almost wonder what the deal is with jns and how he keeps getting all these odd profiles while the other vendors seem to be fairly consistent. At first I was pumped and bought from all the vendors, especially if one had a different profile. Now I just have Maz fatigue [emoji33].


----------



## J.C

New mazaki profile looks more like a french knife (wushtof/sabatier). The profile doesn’t bother me much as i have been using wushtof for quite a while. What bother me is the balance. Balance point is about on the 4th kanji which is to far forward if im using pinch grip. The knife tends to feel heavy when using tap chop instead of rock chop. Probably changing the handle can solve the issue.
However, the 180mm petite is amazing. Feels light and nimble.


----------



## Xenif

Gregmega said:


> Couldn’t agree more with Labor and Chuckles. I was hot on this guy but was also in there early when he had the bullnose profile, which still is my favorite. Several changes and 12 Maz later-I can’t be bothered.
> 
> Refcast- yes, I have. I’m not sure how much is a function of how he supposedly heat treats in charcoal for jns, or how much is inconsistency. But now my 180 petty is an edc since I got the edge where I like it, so much so I bought another for when this one goes down[emoji41].
> 
> But I almost wonder what the deal is with jns and how he keeps getting all these odd profiles while the other vendors seem to be fairly consistent. At first I was pumped and bought from all the vendors, especially if one had a different profile. Now I just have Maz fatigue [emoji33].


It sounds the maz-tique is over and maz-tigue is setting in ....

I've been looking over new Maz photo and peoples postigs .... Is it me or does the profile now look a lot like (shigeki) tanaka-esque with a constant curve ?


----------



## preizzo

Evolution of a maker.


----------



## preizzo

preizzo said:


> Evolution of a maker.
> View attachment 54210
> View attachment 54211
> View attachment 54212
> View attachment 54213


Last one is from latest batch of jns, definitely the most different in shape.


----------



## marc4pt0

preizzo said:


> Last one is from latest batch of jns, definitely the most different in shape.


 
That's a lot of Mazaki there, buddy.


----------



## marc4pt0

I have an older nashiji 220, and one from last (last) batch of pointy profile 210's (220mm) when he changed to charcoal whatever. The bull nose nashiji is still my favorite thus far. Had a 240 but the actual edge length of 250mm was a turnoff for me. Outside of that I loved everything about it. 

I wonder about his inconsistencies though. Is it a story of a young knife maker exploring?


----------



## preizzo

marc4pt0 said:


> I have an older nashiji 220, and one from last (last) batch of pointy profile 210's (220mm) when he changed to charcoal whatever. The bull nose nashiji is still my favorite thus far. Had a 240 but the actual edge length of 250mm was a turnoff for me. Outside of that I loved everything about it.
> 
> I wonder about his inconsistencies though. Is it a story of a young knife maker exploring?


Been discussing that with many people Marc and you know. I love the fact that he can produce many different shapes all by himself. Last I eard is that he start to work under shirokamo so I hope he will not start to produce takefu style knives. I am a sanjo knife lover and he is the future from that area and style of knives.


----------



## marc4pt0

Concurred


----------



## nyc

preizzo said:


> Last one is from latest batch of jns, definitely the most different in shape.



Hi Priezzo. How does it compare to the other profiles in terms of cutting performance?


----------



## tgfencer

preizzo said:


> Last one is from latest batch of jns, definitely the most different in shape.



It reminds me a bit of the Kato WH upsweep at the tip just off the top of my head. Not sure if it’s an illusion though. Wonder if that was a Maksim request.


----------



## Receiver52

Just got my 180 petty. Fit and finish is very good. Spine is just slightly rounded at the pinch grip point. Very comfortable. Balance point is just forward of the heel where the sweep of the last kanji is. Reasonably sharp ootb. Very light and nimble. Will likely be my tomato and soft produce knife.


----------



## F-Flash

He can test profiles as much as he likes, when something weird appears maxim can give super special discounts and theyll be sold out soon anyway


----------



## dgib7994

Based on that awesome picture above, agree with some others that the earliest, bullnose profile is the best!

Super interesting to see the evolution.


----------



## labor of love

Maxim announced that he’s going to stop carrying mazaki.


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> Maxim announced that he’s going to stop carrying mazaki.



That's a real bummer!


----------



## Barmoley

DitmasPork said:


> That's a real bummer!


True, but at least it will stop all the JNS mazaki vs the World mazaki discussions. Oh, whom am I kidding that won't stop... I hope Maxim will bring something new and interesting to take mazaki place.


----------



## DitmasPork

Barmoley said:


> True, but at least it will stop all the JNS mazaki vs the World mazaki discussions. Oh, who am I kidding that won't stop... I hope Maxim will bring something new and interesting to take mazaki place.



Yes! Would love to see something from a talented smith that no one has heard of.


----------



## Barmoley

Also, how long will it take for JNS Mazaki to become the "best" Mazaki ever?


----------



## Xenif

Yeah I just saw that email, but Im rather suprised since he seems to sell out of every mazaki he stocks


----------



## labor of love

I think it’s a good move. Mazaki somehow is mass producing the hell outta his knives. You can get them from like 8-12 different places now. 
What’s the point in carrying the same stuff everyone else carries? Yeah they sell and are in demand but maxims has always been about smaller unique stuff that’s hard to find.


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> I think it’s a good move. Mazaki somehow is mass producing the hell outta his knives. You can get them from like 8-12 different places now.
> What’s the point in carrying the same stuff everyone else carries? Yeah they sell and are in demand but maxims has always been about smaller unique stuff that’s hard to find.



Unless of course Maxim specializes in carrying Maz ginsans and special orders that other vendors don't have. Well, moot point now.


----------



## Gregmega

labor of love said:


> I think it’s a good move. Mazaki somehow is mass producing the hell outta his knives. You can get them from like 8-12 different places now.
> What’s the point in carrying the same stuff everyone else carries? Yeah they sell and are in demand but maxims has always been about smaller unique stuff that’s hard to find.



Like Jikko [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## labor of love

Can you find other vendors carrying the same exact Sakai jikko stuff though? Even though they’re a large brand in Japan I’ve never noticed a blue 2 Mizu honyaki readily available before. Or that Dammy stainless gyuto.


----------



## Gregmega

I guess my tongue in cheek comment was more about the chatter of ‘exclusivity’ of Maxsim’s lines yet he here he is with Jikko- seems like a departure from his one-man-shop ethos. But now that you mention it, I guess those are a bit different from what else is out there. 
Tbh I haven’t paid a ton of attention to them. I have seen them at 10 different vendors with 10 different styles, and like 30 honyaki pass through the pump & dump team by way of kkf. Hell, they even reached out to me & my little company and asked me to be a vendor. But I also would never attempt to guess what’s up Maxsim’s sleeve. Man works in mysterious ways.


----------



## Tanalasta

There are one or two vendors I can readily think of eg. kazs knives online and K&S who often stock Jikko. 

But shame, what’s with JNS heavily promoting and having a sale of Mazaki then stopping them all of a sudden. A fall out perhaps? Who knows. 

The mazaki I got from K&S is one of my best go to knives for heavy duty work.


----------



## thebradleycrew

I like Mazaki knives, but I'd still choose my Toyama's over the Maz every single time. So, I hope he keep getting those in (and out) of stock.


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> Maxim announced that he’s going to stop carrying mazaki.



I couldnt seem to find the announcement... Surprising. I would like to hear the story behind it.


----------



## J.C

Jville said:


> I couldnt seem to find the announcement... Surprising. I would like to hear the story behind it.



He announced it in the newsletter email. 

This is what he wrote:
Hi

First some news...

My goal for my website is to sell super unique and rare knives and stones and i feel like Mazaki is sold in many other stores and quantity that i have to order is bigger and bigger, thats why i decided to stops selling Mazaki knives. I still think his knives is amazing and worth every penny ! And i am super proud of be first one to offer them overseas  

So now I am selling all my stock in Japan and here for discounted prices

Many of the models is already gone, the only thing i have left in Japan still some gyutos very limited amount , Pettys 180mm and Santokus


----------



## Jimbo1217

The news came through subscription emails. Maksim simply thought they were being sold at a lot of vendors we know of, and that it doesn’t make it quite “special” or “unique” anymore. That was simply his reason.


----------



## Jville

Cool thanks, make sense. I usually get his emails but didnt see it.


----------



## bahamaroot

thebradleycrew said:


> I like Mazaki knives, but I'd still choose my Toyama's over the Maz every single time. So, I hope he keep getting those in (and out) of stock.


I like my Toyamas better too but they also cost a hell of a lot more. Maz is a great knife for the money and one of the best bang for the buck knives out there.


----------



## SuperSharp

I bought 3 of the 240mm gyutos during the recent sale. Two are very similar. The third is much different. Added kanji on the back in addition to the stamp. Also much more thick and a bit shorter. 

The left one measures:
7.4mm thick on the spine at the base
245mm heel to tip
262 grams

The one on the right measures:
5.05mm thick at the spine
255mm heel to tip
215 grams

What do I have here? 
On the right is the “normal” one.


----------



## Tanalasta

It almost seems that if Mazaki is a 'one man show' that he's churning out knives without consistency. That's a worry... normally when one purchases from a known maker, they expect ... well an expectation ; particularly when the sharpener is known - that is, if Mazaki indeed does everything himself.

It's turned me off purchasing more Mazaki, despite the very attractive price-point from JNS. My one 240mm was from K&S and is a fantastic cutter. We were hopeful once upon a time that Mazaki was going to be 'up and coming'. Time will tell what happens!


----------



## Jville

SuperSharp said:


> I bought 3 of the 240mm gyutos during the recent sale. Two are very similar. The third is much different. Added kanji on the back in addition to the stamp. Also much more thick and a bit shorter.
> 
> The left one measures:
> 7.4mm thick on the spine at the base
> 245mm heel to tip
> 262 grams
> 
> The one on the right measures:
> 5.05mm thick at the spine
> 255mm heel to tip
> 215 grams
> 
> What do I have here?
> On the right is the “normal” one.



Hmm, left one is looking alot more Kato influenced. Im quite intrigued, would love to have it in hand to actually check the grind etc. Perhaps, more pics?


----------



## Gregmega

SuperSharp said:


> I bought 3 of the 240mm gyutos during the recent sale. Two are very similar. The third is much different. Added kanji on the back in addition to the stamp. Also much more thick and a bit shorter.
> 
> The left one measures:
> 7.4mm thick on the spine at the base
> 245mm heel to tip
> 262 grams
> 
> The one on the right measures:
> 5.05mm thick at the spine
> 255mm heel to tip
> 215 grams
> 
> What do I have here?
> On the right is the “normal” one.



Those variances are insane.


----------



## SuperSharp

The heel is poorly finished and a bit faceted looking, but you get the idea. Feels great in the hand. I noticed the difference immediately when I picked it up before seeing it.


----------



## lemeneid

Yup looks like Kato workhorse. But the bevels look uneven, the scratch patterns are inconsistent. Are there any problems in the grind?

There might be concerns he is making too many knives now the inconsistencies will be too great and the finishing might be poorer.


----------



## labor of love

SuperSharp said:


> The heel is poorly finished and a bit faceted looking, but you get the idea. Feels great in the hand. I noticed the difference immediately when I picked it up before seeing it.


My god what a cool knife. Just wish he’d bring back his older profile(s). I sound like a broken record but still...


----------



## SuperSharp

So to those wanting to know, the heel height on the thicker one is 56.13mm. On the more normal looking one it is 54.56. I measured the third one I received and it’s in between. It measures:
6.01mm spine thickness
54.06 heel height
252mm heel to tip
240g

Grind looks pretty good. Here’s a little better choil shot of the thick one.


----------



## bahamaroot

With the extra kanji on the left face and the spec differences, there has to be something special about that particular knife. Would love to know what that kanji says.


----------



## QCDawg

Mazaki fam photo :

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CHJnQ6umSVT98fes6


----------



## Jimbo1217

The kanji writes “charcoal quenched san-mai (blade) white 2 steel”.

I was quite shocked to see the extra kanji. Looks really nice!


----------



## Gregmega

SuperSharp said:


> So to those wanting to know, the heel height on the thicker one is 56.13mm. On the more normal looking one it is 54.56. I measured the third one I received and it’s in between. It measures:
> 6.01mm spine thickness
> 54.06 heel height
> 252mm heel to tip
> 240g
> 
> Grind looks pretty good. Here’s a little better choil shot of the thick one.



Crazy.


----------



## nyc

J.C said:


> He announced it in the newsletter email.
> 
> This is what he wrote:
> Hi
> 
> First some news...
> 
> My goal for my website is to sell super unique and rare knives and stones and i feel like Mazaki is sold in many other stores and quantity that i have to order is bigger and bigger, thats why i decided to stops selling Mazaki knives. I still think his knives is amazing and worth every penny ! And i am super proud of be first one to offer them overseas
> 
> So now I am selling all my stock in Japan and here for discounted prices
> 
> Many of the models is already gone, the only thing i have left in Japan still some gyutos very limited amount , Pettys 180mm and Santokus



I think the commercial terms were also a disincentive to continue carrying Mazaki, with the minimum order quantities going up each time.


----------



## daveb

He went through something similar with Yoshikane a few years ago. He had the "zensho" series made exclusively for him, then Yoshi's started showing up everywhere in a few different configurations. Maxim put all of his stock on sale and was done.


----------



## nyc

I just received a 240mm “profile” gyuto via JNS. Just to share how mine measures up.

Width at spine: 6.3mm
Width at heel: 5.3mm
Width midway: 2.7mm
Width 1cm from tip: 1.1mm
Height at heel: 54mm
Length of edge: 245mm
Weight: 237gm

Overall, I’m really pleased with this knife. That said, the variances are surprising as I always thought they used templates.


----------



## nyc

daveb said:


> He went through something similar with Yoshikane a few years ago. He had the "zensho" series made exclusively for him, then Yoshi's started showing up everywhere in a few different configurations. Maxim put all of his stock on sale and was done.



It does feel like he’s telling the maker(s) that he’s done with them.


----------



## lemeneid

I don’t buy the idea maxim is selling rare and unique knives though. If he did then he wouldn’t be bringing in those Jikko knives.

My suspicion is Mazaki is making too many knives and their profiles and grinds now are all over the place and there is lack of consistency IMO. That’s why Maxim is stopping them.

That said, Mazaki is indeed becoming mainstream. It’s definitely not rare and unique anymore.


----------



## Gregmega

Once you pop you can’t stop


----------



## labor of love

Yeah you’re right Maxim is just another vendor selling a mirror polish honyaki with a tricked out custom stabilized wood handle in shirogami steel.
Oh wait...


----------



## Gregmega

Well those are sold by kns and cktg....


----------



## Viggetorr

SuperSharp: is it just the angle or are the tips rather chunky on your Mazakis? Mine is super thin, but then again he may change that just as he's changing the profile...


----------



## labor of love

Gregmega said:


> Well those are sold by kns and cktg....


Nope.


----------



## Gregmega

labor of love said:


> Nope.



Perhaps I’m not seeing what you’re seeing. Either way Jikko is low -if even at all- on my list of interests, but it would be interesting to see what he finds next. Been on that site 3 times wondering if I should get a rainy day 210 and a 3rd petty[emoji23].


----------



## Jville

Gregmega said:


> Perhaps I’m not seeing what you’re seeing. Either way Jikko is low -if even at all- on my list of interests, but it would be interesting to see what he finds next. Been on that site 3 times wondering if I should get a rainy day 210 and a 3rd petty[emoji23].


The jikko damascus look really nice to me, including the grinds.


----------



## labor of love

Jville said:


> The jikko damascus look really nice to me, including the grinds.


Hope he carries a larger size at some point.


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> Hope he carries a larger size at some point.


Agree, a 270 would be very tempting!


----------



## bahamaroot

Really seems like Mazaki has started to put out something very similar to the Kato WH for whatever reason. I wonder if this is just a "run" of sorts or something more permanent, I guess only time will tell. I kind of like the thick spine/grind but that profile....yuck.


----------



## nyc

Could it be that all these changes in profiles are done at the request of the seller(s)? I have always wondered if Maksim had any input.
I don’t own a Kato but the new profile is rather “German”, almost like a Wusthof.

https://imgur.com/gallery/ShOjPny
https://imgur.com/gallery/ELgZU83


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Mazaki seems like the new teruyasu Fujiwara, you just don’t know what your gonna get. Seems like his work is all over the place and completely inconsistent. That being, I like the one I got, not much to complain about at 250 bucks. Ones enough though.


----------



## SuperSharp

Viggetorr said:


> SuperSharp: is it just the angle or are the tips rather chunky on your Mazakis? Mine is super thin, but then again he may change that just as he's changing the profile...



The tip is pretty thin. I think my poor cell phone pics distort it a bit.


----------



## bahamaroot

We might not be complaining so much about the inconsistencies if we just had a little back story as to the reasoning of these changes. As drastic as these changes have been in the past there must be some reasoning behind them.

And the new Teruyasu Fujiwara? Not hardly, TF's knives didn't just go through changes, the grinds went to sh!t. Mazakis knives might be changing but each iteration seems to be well made.

I love the two I have and I'm glad I got them. Think it would be cool to try one of these real thick spine ones he put out recently to compare.


----------



## bahamaroot

Jimbo1217 said:


> *The kanji writes “charcoal quenched san-mai (blade) white 2 steel”.*
> 
> I was quite shocked to see the extra kanji. Looks really nice!


Is that what the extra kanji says? If so, what did the original kanji and that same side say?


----------



## Jimbo1217

bahamaroot said:


> Is that what the extra kanji says? If so, what did the original kanji and that same side say?



I believe the original kanji of the back side only says charcoal quenched (4 stamped characters).


----------



## dsk

well the 240mm was listed in stock again at JNS and went for it at $229. Requested the most lefty friendly stock. Curious what I'll end up with.


----------



## DitmasPork

dsk said:


> well the 240mm was listed in stock again at JNS and went for it at $229. Requested the most lefty friendly stock. Curious what I'll end up with.



I got my 240 Maz from Maxim, asked him for lefty friendly, he flipped the d-handle, blade geometry is very lefty friendly.


----------



## dsk

DitmasPork said:


> I got my 240 Maz from Maxim, asked him for lefty friendly, he flipped the d-handle, blade geometry is very lefty friendly.



This makes me very happy as I also mentioned in the order comments about flipping the handle.


----------



## DitmasPork

dsk said:


> This makes me very happy as I also mentioned in the order comments about flipping the handle.



Though this was last year, three Maz profiles ago.


----------



## labor of love

Maxim has repeatedly flipped handles for me. When I bought a kaeru he even replaced the d shape w octagonal free of charge. But I don’t think he normally has octagonal handles.


----------



## Jon-cal

Yeah he flipped a d handle for me on a Toyama. I just asked for a lefty friendly grind, wasn’t expecting the handle too!


----------



## BlueSteel

Held out for a long time...but could not resist the current sale for the Mazaki 240...$229 USD with free shipping. Pretty amazing value. 

Hoping I get a good one, but I certainly like the dimensions of these (tall at heel, heavier weight)!


----------



## Gjackson98

BlueSteel said:


> Held out for a long time...but could not resist the current sale for the Mazaki 240...$229 USD with free shipping. Pretty amazing value.
> 
> Hoping I get a good one, but I certainly like the dimensions of these (tall at heel, heavier weight)!



I am tempting to get another one myself, you can’t go wrong with $229 lol


----------



## ChefShramrock

Just purchased my first Mazaki. 210mm nashiji gyuto from Knifewear. Should be here in a couple of days. Casey from kw was kind enough to measure their stock and find me the longest one at 219mm. Profile looks like a middle style, not bull-nosed and not upswept.


----------



## Rory Shannon

I bought the Mazaki Santoku from Cleancut very recently. Tip top knife. Cuts beautifully and holds its edge great for white #2. Mine was very very reactive. Cleancut also have a European website with a different domain. I buy a lot of knives from them along with cuttingedgeknives.co.uk being in Ireland. The delivery is only €18 euros from Cleancut.

I recently bought the last 240 Wat from carbonknifeco and the duties on that blade were insane. Had to have it though!


----------



## Viggetorr

ChefShramrock said:


> Just purchased my first Mazaki. 210mm nashiji gyuto from Knifewear. Should be here in a couple of days. Casey from kw was kind enough to measure their stock and find me the longest one at 219mm. Profile looks like a middle style, not bull-nosed and not upswept.



Nice, I thought he stopped making those.


----------



## ChefShramrock

Viggetorr said:


> Nice, I thought he stopped making those.


From the look of the profile, it looks like older stock.


----------



## BlueSteel

Just got my 240 Profile from the JNS sale. No scale handy right now, but it measures a relatively modest 243mm tip-to-heel, and 53mm high at heel. It has the 4 kanji left side which I gather refers to the charcoal quenching (though I cannot read it myself). Nice looking knife and shipped FAST!


----------



## dsk

BlueSteel said:


> Just got my 240 Profile from the JNS sale. No scale handy right now, but it measures a relatively modest 243mm tip-to-heel, and 53mm high at heel. It has the 4 kanji left side which I gather refers to the charcoal quenching (though I cannot read it myself). Nice looking knife and shipped FAST!


yeah i got my knife on wed. would have been monday but i had to delay the delivery date because I assumed it would come later to my new residence. handle was flipped as asked, im not an expert but it looks like a pretty lefty friendly blade. haven't gotten to cut or measure anything since I'm still in unpacking hell.


----------



## BlueSteel

BlueSteel said:


> Just got my 240 Profile from the JNS sale. No scale handy right now, but it measures a relatively modest 243mm tip-to-heel, and 53mm high at heel. It has the 4 kanji left side which I gather refers to the charcoal quenching (though I cannot read it myself). Nice looking knife and shipped FAST!



Just weighed it...230 grams.


----------



## ChefShramrock

Got my Mazaki Nashiji gyuto yesterday.
Used it for everything I could think of. Trimming and cutting steaks, fish, veg prep, line work. Anything and everything. It's quite a bit heavier than my other knives, especially my Kurosaki R2. Weight is 7.9oz, length is 219mm, height is 50.8mm. He's a big boi.


----------



## WPerry

ChefShramrock said:


> Got my Mazaki Nashiji gyuto yesterday.
> Used it for everything I could think of. Trimming and cutting steaks, fish, veg prep, line work. Anything and everything. It's quite a bit heavier than my other knives, especially my Kurosaki R2. Weight is 7.9oz, length is 219mm, height is 50.8mm. He's a big boi.



Love the finish, the profile (vs some of the other Mazaki that I've seen) and the price is nice. So tempting.


----------



## dsk

Finally got to use my mazaki, breaking down a tenderloin, didn't react at all yet but expect it to when I cut the hot fillets tomorrow. I can say without a doubt now I do not particularly enjoy D handles, otherwise it feels good in hand, though heel could use a little more sandpaper. I'm not a grind expert yet but I think this one will work well for my lefty needs. Quick measurements as I bought a caliper when I was at the hardware store yesterday (no weight yet can't find scale):

Length 245mm, heel 54mm, spine at handle 5.95mm, about 1cm from heel .95mm

https://imgur.com/a/NKiju44


----------



## Jville

dsk said:


> Finally got to use my mazaki, breaking down a tenderloin, didn't react at all yet but expect it to when I cut the hot fillets tomorrow. I can say without a doubt now I do not particularly enjoy D handles, otherwise it feels good in hand, though heel could use a little more sandpaper. I'm not a grind expert yet but I think this one will work well for my lefty needs. Quick measurements as I bought a caliper when I was at the hardware store yesterday (no weight yet can't find scale):
> 
> Length 245mm, heel 54mm, spine at handle 5.95mm, about 1cm from heel .95mm
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/NKiju44



That is a sexy looking choil shot!


----------



## bahamaroot

dsk said:


> ...I can say without a doubt now I do not particularly enjoy D handles...


I actually like D handles better oriented in the wrong direction.


----------



## dsk

bahamaroot said:


> I actually like D handles better oriented in the wrong direction.


 ha you just might be right about it, holding the knife in my right hand it kind of makes sense, since the rib mostly aligns with the tips of my fingers. The idea behind D shape being sort of like ribbed golf club grips is nice in theory, but to me it's just a little unergonomic. I prefer oval, octagonal, even hybrids.


----------



## Jon-cal

bahamaroot said:


> I actually like D handles better oriented in the wrong direction.



Lefty here. I prefer them the wrong direction too. Lucky for me that’s the normal way they come


----------



## Jville

dsk said:


> ha you just might be right about it, holding the knife in my right hand it kind of makes sense, since the rib mostly aligns with the tips of my fingers. The idea behind D shape being sort of like ribbed golf club grips is nice in theory, but to me it's just a little unergonomic.* I prefer oval*, octagonal, even hybrids.



I have always loved the anryu oval handles and wished more oval handles were made.


----------



## dsk

Jville said:


> I have always loved the anryu oval handles and wished more oval handles were made.


Honestly oval is probably more time consuming to produce and demand for octagonal is probably higher so win-win for handle makers. My masashi 150mm has an oval burnt chestnut, I probably prefer it over the kns ebony on my shiro kamo and any ho octagonal. I'll probably do a sweeping handle change into a custom octaval hybrid in burnt chestnut someday.


----------



## JoBone

dsk said:


> Honestly oval is probably more time consuming to produce and demand for octagonal is probably higher so win-win for handle makers. My masashi 150mm has an oval burnt chestnut, I probably prefer it over the kns ebony on my shiro kamo and any ho octagonal. I'll probably do a sweeping handle change into a custom octaval hybrid in burnt chestnut someday.




From my work experience, a well done octagonal handle takes less time than oval, d-shaped or hybrid. However, it is also requires the most precision, as the chamfering process needs to be exact.

D-shape handles are difficult to get right, easy to mess up but the most fun. Once you make a few they are addictive.

Hybrids are more time consuming than octagonal, but slightly less prone to errors.

Ovals are hard to get perfect, takes a lot of time and not much demand.


----------



## Spadazzo88

ChefShramrock said:


> Got my Mazaki Nashiji gyuto yesterday.
> Used it for everything I could think of. Trimming and cutting steaks, fish, veg prep, line work. Anything and everything. It's quite a bit heavier than my other knives, especially my Kurosaki R2. Weight is 7.9oz, length is 219mm, height is 50.8mm. He's a big boi.



Nice balde and cut!


----------



## DitmasPork

Regarding handles, I personally feel that there's a lot of over thinking. My preference is the stock ho-wood handles that come with the knife—even over some nicer custom handles I've used. D, oval, oct, doesn't matter to me, love the feel of ho wood—gimme a cheap ho over a pretty custom any day. The stock octa handle that came with my CC Maz is very good.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

DitmasPork said:


> Regarding handles, I personally feel that there's a lot of over thinking. My preference is the stock ho-wood handles that come with the knife—even over some nicer custom handles I've used. D, oval, oct, doesn't matter to me, love the feel of ho wood—gimme a cheap ho over a pretty custom any day. The stock octa handle that came with my CC Maz is very good.


I agree. I’ll pay a little more for rosewood for the balancing and hygiene aspect. But, agree have gotten a bit over the top.
All these handles came with the knives and all are awesome in their own way.


----------



## DitmasPork

Chicagohawkie said:


> View attachment 55540
> 
> I agree. I’ll pay a little more for rosewood for the balancing and hygiene aspect. But, agree have gotten a bit over the top.
> All these handles came with the knives and all are awesome in their own way.



When I got my Watanabe, I did upgrade to his keyaki wood handle, it's one of my faves. Also really like the burnt chestnut tat came with my kochi. I do like the everymans aesthetic of a cheap ho.


----------



## DitmasPork

DitmasPork said:


> When I got my Watanabe, I did upgrade to his keyaki wood handle, it's one of my faves. Also really like the burnt chestnut tat came with my kochi. I do like the everymans aesthetic of a cheap ho.



Chicagohawkie >>> Never had a rosewood handle, is the feeling like ebony?


----------



## dsk

DitmasPork said:


> Chicagohawkie >>> Never had a rosewood handle, is the feeling like ebony?


i briefly held a rosewood before flipping the knife, a denser feeling ho wood?


----------



## JoBone

DitmasPork said:


> Chicagohawkie >>> Never had a rosewood handle, is the feeling like ebony?



There’s a wide variety of Rosewoods, even ebonies, but there are general characteristics of each. Rosewoods tend to be a bit lighter, a bit softer with a natural feel to them. Ebonies are harder, denser and more of a regal confident feel.

As both have high natural oils; you can have a nice natural luster and they both are very resistant to rot. These characteristics make them good candidates for handles.

Some variety of ebony have a greater chance is splitting with time, especially if the wood is not seasoned well. For that reason, some handle makers shy away from using it, going for something like African Blackwood (a dark rosewood)

I think the use of ho wood for handles is due to some characteristics such as light weight, durability and rot resistance. Just as important, if not more so is cost and availability. From my understanding, there is a bit of a crisis of available wood in Japan for handle making right now. I’ve even been asked once to ship rosewood to a Japanese handle maker, which is against regulations. 

Different regions tend to use the same concepts in choosing handle materials, like in the US which traditionally used woods like walnuts and cherries.

As long as you are happy with the handle, then it’s awesome.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

DitmasPork said:


> Chicagohawkie >>> Never had a rosewood handle, is the feeling like ebony?


Whoops, I meant ebony. Have a few rosewood though, a little less dense.


----------



## Jville

Chicagohawkie said:


> Whoops, I meant ebony. Have a few rosewood though, a little less dense.



I was wondering about that. I was pretty sure you had some knives with rosewood handles.


----------



## Huntdad

Well now I need another knife thanks to this forum....interesting how switching a letter or two could be related in a different way....


----------



## nyc

Thinking of getting the Mazaki 180mm petty that’s currently on JNS. Would be interested to hear any views on it - profile, grind etc.
Thanks in advance. Cheers!


----------



## J.C

You should get one while it is still available. Best petty i’ve ever had. More like laser at the half end. Very thin behind the edge.


----------



## DitmasPork

nyc said:


> Thinking of getting the Mazaki 180mm petty that’s currently on JNS. Would be interested to hear any views on it - profile, grind etc.
> Thanks in advance. Cheers!



Do it! Just ordered one, arriving tomorrow. Good price, but you'll need to get something else to qualify for free shipping. Profile, grind looks like what I'd expect, having used Maz gyutos.


----------



## WPerry

I've been thinking about getting one of those pettys, too, but would essentially need to order two (or the santoku) to qualify for free shipping.


----------



## DitmasPork

WPerry said:


> I've been thinking about getting one of those pettys, too, but would essentially need to order two (or the santoku) to qualify for free shipping.



I just got the petty, shipping was about $28. Still a bargain, worth it. Makes no sense penny pinching and risking the dreaded "out of stock."


----------



## WPerry

DitmasPork said:


> I just got the petty, shipping was about $28. Still a bargain, worth it. Makes no sense penny pinching and risking the dreaded "out of stock."



I certainly understand your perspective, but mine is different. For me, it's a gratuitous nice-to-have and not getting one doesn't bother me as much as shipping that tacks on 20%, regardless of what the previous price may have been. The funds that I'm willing to devote to knives is limited and I'd also like the 210 KU from KW, which *really* speaks to me aesthetically. But... I'll continue to mull it over.


----------



## DitmasPork

WPerry said:


> I certainly understand your perspective, but mine is different. For me, it's a gratuitous nice-to-have and not getting one doesn't bother me as much as shipping that tacks on 20%, regardless of what the previous price may have been. The funds that I'm willing to devote to knives is limited and I'd also like the 210 KU from KW, which *really* speaks to me aesthetically. But... I'll continue to mull it over.



I got it 'cause I needed a longer petty, and also like Maz grinds. Maxim's flipped the handle since I'm lefty.

Total cost of the 180 Petty, shipping, at the conversion rate came to $164. Shipped out on Friday, receiving tomorrow.

I only buy knives I really want/need, and not swayed by sales, heavy discounts on knives that I wouldn't buy in the first place.


----------



## WPerry

DitmasPork said:


> I got it 'cause I needed a longer petty, and also like Maz grinds. Maxim's flipped the handle since I'm lefty.
> 
> Total cost of the 180 Petty, shipping, at the conversion rate came to $164. Shipped out on Friday, receiving tomorrow.
> 
> I only buy knives I really want/need, and not swayed by sales, heavy discounts on knives that I wouldn't buy in the first place.



Can you let us know when you get it, if it lives up to expectations and post pics? For my use, I do think that it would make a nice compliment to my 240 Yoshikane, but I'd love to see more pics/vids and thoughts on it. 

Side note, I really miss BK. I lived along the Prospect Heights/Crown Heights border for a decade and it was where I felt most at home in adult life. Le Sigh.


----------



## ian

DitmasPork said:


> I only buy knives I really want/need, and not swayed by sales, heavy discounts on knives that I wouldn't buy in the first place.



Let’s be realistic here: want/need = want, yes? 

I am actually tempted by heavy discounts sometimes, since it means I can try more stuff and not lose so much money when I resell it. Since I hardly keep anything I buy, this is important.

I have the Maz 180 petty, and at first I didn’t like it, then I loved it, and now I’m confused. As people say, though, it’s ridiculously thin at the tip (actually, when I had a really strong mag strip this meant that I had to straighten a couple minor tip bends), and has a good height at the heel (enough for board work, but still short enough to feel precise), and the profile’s pretty good imo too.


----------



## J.C

Heres some picture to help you to decide


----------



## JoBone

WPerry said:


> I've been thinking about getting one of those pettys, too, but would essentially need to order two (or the santoku) to qualify for free shipping.



I got 2... free shipping silly low price


----------



## Tanalasta

Hmm... I'm sorely tempted. But I have a perfectly good beat about Shun 180mm Santoku and a short petty for peeling that I use as a petty or all around knife. Worth picking up a petty to have a petty?


----------



## QCDawg

It’s more than a petty. It’s like a thin 180 gyuto. It’s tall. It’s going to be one of ur favorites.. @Gregmega has..like.. 5 of them


----------



## DitmasPork

Tanalasta said:


> Hmm... I'm sorely tempted. But I have a perfectly good beat about Shun 180mm Santoku and a short petty for peeling that I use as a petty or all around knife. Worth picking up a petty to have a petty?



Sounds like you don't need one. Spend the money on something you need.


----------



## Stratguy

I just got this 210 (closer to 220) this past week. Not sure how this profile stacks up against others, but I love this knife. Good fit and finish, and the balance is perfect. I went back to the store today and bought the only 180 Petty they had. Will post pics of that one a little later.


----------



## nyc

J.C said:


> Heres some picture to help you to decide


Order placed!


----------



## nyc

Stratguy said:


> I just got this 210 (closer to 220) this past week. Not sure how this profile stacks up against others, but I love this knife. Good fit and finish, and the balance is perfect. I went back to the store today and bought the only 180 Petty they had. Will post pics of that one a little later.


Nice!!! Where did you get this from? JNS isn’t stocked anymore and neither is Clean Cut.


----------



## Stratguy

nyc, I bought them in person at a local knife shop in Arizona.


----------



## JoBone

Here’s my 150 petty. Once put into my rotation, it’s been a keeper.


----------



## bahamaroot

JoBone said:


> Here’s my 150 petty. Once put into my rotation, it’s been a keeper.
> 
> 
> View attachment 56087


Have a buddy that got one of those and it was instant love for him.


----------



## nyc

Stratguy said:


> nyc, I bought them in person at a local knife shop in Arizona.


I see. Love that profile. A 240mm of that would nicely complement the new profile I picked up from JNS.
BTW, how’s the distal taper? Curious just how thick the spine is at the handle and heel.


----------



## nyc

QCDawg said:


> It’s more than a petty. It’s like a thin 180 gyuto. It’s tall. It’s going to be one of ur favorites.. @Gregmega has..like.. 5 of them


I’ve always been curious as to how (if possible) to draw a distinction between a petty and a gyuto, especially at the 180mm length.


----------



## Stratguy

nyc said:


> I see. Love that profile. A 240mm of that would nicely complement the new profile I picked up from JNS.
> BTW, how’s the distal taper? Curious just how thick the spine is at the handle and heel.



It's very thick at the heel. It's one of the attributes that I really love.


----------



## Stratguy

Here is the 180 Petty (185) that I picked up this morning.


----------



## ian

Is it just me, or does that look completely different from some of the ones from JNS? How tall is that at the heel? Looks shorter at the heel, and with a much(!) flatter profile than mine.


----------



## WPerry

ian said:


> Is it just me, or does that look completely different from some of the ones from JNS? How tall is that at the heel? Looks shorter at the heel, and with a much(!) flatter profile than mine.



I don't have one from JNS in-hand (yet... soon), but from pics, yeah - just as you say. To add to the confusion, to me, at least, is the youtube vid where Maxim refers to a Maz 180 as a gyuto. That, too, has a different nose, but stuff like heel height looks like it jibes with the JNS specs of the petty.


----------



## DitmasPork

Stratguy said:


> I just got this 210 (closer to 220) this past week. Not sure how this profile stacks up against others, but I love this knife. Good fit and finish, and the balance is perfect. I went back to the store today and bought the only 180 Petty they had. Will post pics of that one a little later.



I have that same knife, bought from Cleancut last year, mine is 220 edge length. Wonderful knife, though annoyed with the handle—wished there wasn't such a big jump from ferrule to spine, ideally I'd want spine to be almost aligned with ferrule.


----------



## QCDawg

WPerry said:


> I don't have one from JNS in-hand (yet... soon), but from pics, yeah - just as you say. To add to the confusion, to me, at least, is the youtube vid where Maxim refers to a Maz 180 as a gyuto. That, too, has a different nose, but stuff like heel height looks like it jibes with the JNS specs of the petty.



They had a Maz 180 gyuto a while ago, I liked it? But I like the 180 petty better.


----------



## QCDawg

The KING.. is the nashiji knifewear 210. I think they only have a dozen or so left. With the exchange rate? It’s under $190, usd


----------



## Gjackson98

I been wanting to try his KU santoku, anyone has any experience with it?


----------



## preizzo

Gjackson98 said:


> I been wanting to try his KU santoku, anyone has any experience with it?


Ti short for my taste,more like a girl knife .
Shape waise Is good .


----------



## J.C

I hope mazaki make nashiji nakiri 180mm or longer


----------



## WPerry

QCDawg said:


> They had a Maz 180 gyuto a while ago, I liked it? But I like the 180 petty better.



How did they differ? 



QCDawg said:


> The KING.. is the nashiji knifewear 210. I think they only have a dozen or so left. With the exchange rate? It’s under $190, usd



Unless I'm missing something, that's one that has been itching at me. It's currently ~$240, though. I've been keeping a loose eye on in-stock/out-of-stock at their store locations. If I start seeing them go out of stock, I might be goaded in to picking one up. A sale price would provide a little prodding, too.


----------



## Stratguy

ian said:


> Is it just me, or does that look completely different from some of the ones from JNS? How tall is that at the heel? Looks shorter at the heel, and with a much(!) flatter profile than mine.



Mine is 36mm at the heel.


----------



## Gjackson98

preizzo said:


> Ti short for my taste,more like a girl knife .
> Shape waise Is good .



Hey now! Lol
I have been transitioning to shorter knives to cut my meal portion.


----------



## ian

Stratguy said:


> Mine is 36mm at the heel.



Guess it’s just the pic, then. Mine is 36 and a bit. I want to insist that my profile is different, but maybe that’s the pic too.


----------



## Xenif

J.C said:


> I hope mazaki make nashiji nakiri 180mm or longer


JNS had (for a very short time) a KU 195mm/57mm, 6mm thick tapers to almost 1mm at the tip, that thing is a BEAST of a nakiri. 

If he ever makes a 210mm in Nashiji ...


----------



## preizzo

Xenif said:


> JNS had (for a very short time) a KU 195mm/57mm, 6mm thick tapers to almost 1mm at the tip, that thing is a BEAST of a nakiri.
> 
> If he ever makes a 210mm in Nashiji ...


That Is what i am After too


----------



## Gjackson98

Xenif said:


> JNS had (for a very short time) a KU 195mm/57mm, 6mm thick tapers to almost 1mm at the tip, that thing is a BEAST of a nakiri.
> 
> If he ever makes a 210mm in Nashiji ...


I purchased a KU mazaki 180mm nakiri from JNS before. that knife was something else.


----------



## Gjackson98

Some photos of it


----------



## Xenif

Cutting stuff with Mazaki is like .....


----------



## Eugene Chrysovergis

Ι'm fresh new here and I have just a couple of Kasumis. Just one question. Watanabe Pro Nakiri or the Nakiri above?


----------



## Xenif

Eugene Chrysovergis said:


> Ι'm fresh new here and I have just a couple of Kasumis. Just one question. Watanabe Pro Nakiri or the Nakiri above?


Wat Pro is the "Gold Standard" of nakiri around here. The Big Maz hasn't been available for some time now and JNS has recently announced that they will no longer carry Mazaki, so the chances are slim to get another one, unless you know of a retailer thats selling similar.


----------



## ChefShramrock

KW has a 165 ku nashiji nakiri in stock. 
https://knifewear.com/products/mazaki-w2-nashiji-nakiri-165mm?variant=13647138390064


----------



## ChefShramrock

QCDawg said:


> The KING.. is the nashiji knifewear 210. I think they only have a dozen or so left. With the exchange rate? It’s under $190, usd


I got mine for $237usd after exchange rate. Love the knife. They said most blades ran around 216mm, but they found me one that was 219mm. Love the distal taper.


----------



## DitmasPork

ChefShramrock said:


> I got mine for $237usd after exchange rate. Love the knife. They said most blades ran around 216mm, but they found me one that was 219mm. Love the distal taper.



The Maz Nashiji has to be one of the nicest finishes out there. Wished I liked nakiris.


----------



## J.C

Xenif said:


> JNS had (for a very short time) a KU 195mm/57mm, 6mm thick tapers to almost 1mm at the tip, that thing is a BEAST of a nakiri.


Yes, i own this one as well. But it only runs 184 edge length.
I wish i could get one in 200-210mm and that will be perfect.



Eugene Chrysovergis said:


> Ι'm fresh new here and I have just a couple of Kasumis. Just one question. Watanabe Pro Nakiri or the Nakiri above?


Both has exceptional quality. You can order watanabe anytime but not the maz.


----------



## Eugene Chrysovergis

Thanks J.C. I can order the Watanabe from Japan only. The only store I found is in Japan.


----------



## J.C

Eugene Chrysovergis said:


> Thanks J.C. I can order the Watanabe from Japan only. The only store I found is in Japan.


Carbonknife store in US also has them. But if you not living in US, i reckon its cheaper to order one direct from japan. Cheaper delivery cost as well


----------



## DitmasPork

Eugene Chrysovergis said:


> Thanks J.C. I can order the Watanabe from Japan only. The only store I found is in Japan.



Since you're in EU, why not just get a Toyama from Maxim, Toyama is the same as Watanabe.


----------



## Eugene Chrysovergis

J.C said:


> Carbonknife store in US also has them. But if you not living in US, i reckon its cheaper to order one direct from japan. Cheaper delivery cost as well


I am in Europe, Greece. The Shipping cost is cheaper from Japan, I have seen that. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Eugene Chrysovergis

DitmasPork said:


> Since you're in EU, why not just get a Toyama from Maxim, Toyama is the same as Watanabe.


Thanks for the info my friend. My journey just started so it's the first time in my life I hear the "Toyama". Thanks again.


----------



## DitmasPork

Eugene Chrysovergis said:


> Thanks for the info my friend. My journey just started so it's the first time in my life I hear the "Toyama". Thanks again.



People jokingly say that Toyama and Watanabe are the same maker. I believe Watanabe trained under Toyama.

Many are sold out, best to get on the mailing list to be alerted when they are in stock. 
http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/toyama-sold/


----------



## Eugene Chrysovergis

DitmasPork said:


> Since you're in EU, why not just get a Toyama from Maxim, Toyama is the same as Watanabe.



Thanks again, I think that my only hope is the mailing list. I send emails to Konosuke and Sukenari companies, they replied, but the demand is so high so many of the knives I want are out of stock.


----------



## Eugene Chrysovergis

Xenif said:


> Wat Pro is the "Gold Standard" of nakiri around here. The Big Maz hasn't been available for some time now and JNS has recently announced that they will no longer carry Mazaki, so the chances are slim to get another one, unless you know of a retailer thats selling similar.


Thanks a lot for the info, much appreciated.


----------



## DitmasPork

Eugene Chrysovergis said:


> Thanks again, I think that my only hope is the mailing list. I send emails to Konosuke and Sukenari companies, they replied, but the demand is so high so many of the knives I want are out of stock.



Since you're looking for a nakiri, and this is a Mazaki thread, have you considered this?
https://knifewear.com/products/mazaki-w2-nashiji-nakiri-165mm?variant=13647138390064

The nashiji finish is gorgeous.


----------



## QCDawg

WPerry said:


> How did they differ?
> 
> 
> 
> Unless I'm missing something, that's one that has been itching at me. It's currently ~$240, though. I've been keeping a loose eye on in-stock/out-of-stock at their store locations. If I start seeing them go out of stock, I might be goaded in to picking one up. A sale price would provide a little prodding, too.



180 gyuto was thicker @ the spine, and more santoku-like . the petty is really nimble


----------



## Eugene Chrysovergis

DitmasPork said:


> Since you're looking for a nakiri, and this is a Mazaki thread, have you considered this?
> https://knifewear.com/products/mazaki-w2-nashiji-nakiri-165mm?variant=13647138390064
> 
> The nashiji finish is gorgeous.


Υes, I agree. I am thinking about a Mazaki Gyuto too...to be honest, I want them both!


----------



## J.C

Eugene Chrysovergis said:


> Υes, I agree. I am thinking about a Mazaki Gyuto too...to be honest, I want them both!



Which particular size gyuto you are after?


----------



## nyc

Mazaki 180mm petty now sold out on JNS. Glad I got in before it happened. Thanks J.C. and the rest here for “inspiring” me to move on it.


----------



## DitmasPork

nyc said:


> Mazaki 180mm petty now sold out on JNS. Glad I got in before it happened. Thanks J.C. and the rest here for “inspiring” me to move on it.




I got mine the other day. Sick distal taper on it.


----------



## nyc

DitmasPork said:


> I got mine the other day. Sick distal taper on it.


That looks awesome! Can’t wait to get mine.
BTW, did you pick up the profile gyuto from JNS?


----------



## DitmasPork

nyc said:


> That looks awesome! Can’t wait to get mine.
> BTW, did you pick up the profile gyuto from JNS?



What do you mean 'profile gyuto'? I have a 240 bull nose Maz from JNS and 220 from Cleancut. 

BTW, why is your name NYC if you're in Malaysia?


----------



## nyc

DitmasPork said:


> What do you mean 'profile gyuto'? I have a 240 bull nose Maz from JNS and 220 from Cleancut.
> 
> BTW, why is your name NYC if you're in Malaysia?


That’s the latest version which Maksim put on sale. Currently only the 210mm is available/on sale.
NYC actually happens to be the initials of my name.


----------



## J.C

nyc said:


> That’s the latest version which Maksim put on sale. Currently only the 210mm is available/on sale.
> NYC actually happens to be the initials of my name.



I have the 240mm version of new profile JNS. Very thin behind the edge. But more curve and belly suitable for rock chopping.


----------



## DitmasPork

nyc said:


> That’s the latest version which Maksim put on sale. Currently only the 210mm is available/on sale.
> NYC actually happens to be the initials of my name.



I really want to visit Malaysia to eat Aun Kheng Lim Salted Chicken.


----------



## Eugene Chrysovergis

J.C said:


> Which particular size gyuto you are after?


210mm. I have found a Mazaki I like but the store is in Australia.


----------



## J.C

Eugene Chrysovergis said:


> 210mm. I have found a Mazaki I like but the store is in Australia.



From KnS right? Yes you can’t go wrong with them. You can buy a matching saya for a reasonable price. 55$ is really hard to beat


----------



## Eugene Chrysovergis

J.C said:


> From KnS right? Yes you can’t go wrong with them. You can buy a matching saya for a reasonable price. 55$ is really hard to beat


Yes, Kns. I see you're from Australia. My first Mazaki white 2 Gyuto 210 mm.


----------



## ThinMan

Anyone have a photo of the K&S 240 and 210 Mazakis side by side?

I am looking for a visual size comparison.


----------



## J.C

i have 240 kns version upgraded handle and new hardwood saya


----------



## Tanalasta

KNS is very good with their postage and customer service.

If you're used to 240mm gyuto ; the 240 is an absolutely beauty and at the price, a lovely knife at the price point (with the KNS handle). I adore mine and reach for it almost as much as the Toyama.


----------



## nyc

DitmasPork said:


> I really want to visit Malaysia to eat Aun Kheng Lim Salted Chicken.


Wow! I’m familiar with salt baked chicken, but not that particular seller/restaurant you mentioned. Now I’m interested to give it a try!


----------



## nyc

J.C said:


> View attachment 56191
> View attachment 56192
> i have 240 kns version upgraded handle and new hardwood saya


That’s an absolute beauty JC!


----------



## DitmasPork

nyc said:


> Wow! I’m familiar with salt baked chicken, but not that particular seller/restaurant you mentioned. Now I’m interested to give it a try!



I've found it via internet snooping, my family is Hakka, salt baked chicken is a big part of the cuisine. I'd also like to some day do a siew yoke crawl through Malaysia—bucket list. https://my.openrice.com/en/klangvalley/article/10-best-siu-yuk-roasted-pork-in-kl-pj-to-die-for-a482


----------



## J.C

nyc said:


> That’s an absolute beauty JC!



Thanks. I was lucky to get one before the price rises. Worth as a keeper.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

I’ve had both kns versions 240 and 210. The 240 is the perfect knife.


----------



## WPerry

JNS 180 Petty inbound - should arrive Monday. Another user and I went in on a pair to take advantage of the free shipping (and we nabbed a couple of the last few available). Looking forward to getting my hands on it!


----------



## Chicagohawkie

J.C said:


> Thanks. I was lucky to get one before the price rises. Worth as a keeper.


Wow. Had no idea prices had increased by 80 bucks already! Mine came with free saya.


----------



## J.C

WPerry said:


> Looking forward to getting my hands on it!



I am sure you gonna love it


----------



## nyc

DitmasPork said:


> I've found it via internet snooping, my family is Hakka, salt baked chicken is a big part of the cuisine. I'd also like to some day do a siew yoke crawl through Malaysia—bucket list. https://my.openrice.com/en/klangvalley/article/10-best-siu-yuk-roasted-pork-in-kl-pj-to-die-for-a482


Interesting... I’m Hakka on my mum’s side


----------



## J.C

Chicagohawkie said:


> Wow. Had no idea prices had increased by 80 bucks already! Mine came with free saya.



That means you got one during the launching promotion (which include a free saya). I missed that one.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

J.C said:


> That means you got one during the launching promotion (which include a free saya). I missed that one.


INDEED!


----------



## nyc

Is there a difference in profile between the ones from KNS and CC ? I’m planning on getting a 240mm sometime in the near future and need to decide if it should be from CC or KNS.


----------



## Chicagohawkie

nyc said:


> Is there a difference in profile between the ones from KNS and CC ? I’m planning on getting a 240mm sometime in the near future and need to decide if it should be from CC or KNS.


Mazaki dimensions are all over the place. They are not the same even from run to run with specific retailers. Ask for pictures of the knife before you buy it. When I saw the first run at kns I was amazed and got the 240. The 210 I get a while later was nothing like the 240 and sold it.


----------



## nyc

Chicagohawkie said:


> Mazaki dimensions are all over the place. They are not the same even from run to run with specific retailers. Ask for pictures of the knife before you buy it. When I saw the first run at kns I was amazed and got the 240. The 210 I get a while later was nothing like the 240 and sold it.


How was the 210 different (presumably not in a good way) from the 240?


----------



## J.C

nyc said:


> Is there a difference in profile between the ones from KNS and CC ? I’m planning on getting a 240mm sometime in the near future and need to decide if it should be from CC or KNS



I think the profile from CC and KNS might be similar/identical (judging from pics). The only difference is the size, CC mazaki often runs a bit longer 225 / 250. Meanwhile KNS are 210/240


----------



## Chicagohawkie

It had more radius at the edge, profile different and not as thin at the tip - distal taper.
My 240 is 244mm and the 210 was 220mm


----------



## Xenif

DitmasPork said:


> I've found it via internet snooping, my family is Hakka, salt baked chicken is a big part of the cuisine. I'd also like to some day do a siew yoke crawl through Malaysia—bucket list. https://my.openrice.com/en/klangvalley/article/10-best-siu-yuk-roasted-pork-in-kl-pj-to-die-for-a482


KKF goes to Malaysia ft. Mazaki

This could be a thing [emoji56]


----------



## bahamaroot

J.C said:


> I think the profile from CC and KNS might be similar/identical (judging from pics). The only difference is the size, *CC mazaki often runs a bit longer 225 / 250*. Meanwhile KNS are 210/240


I don't find this to be true. My 210 from CC is 216mm and my 240 is 245mm. About the same as I've seen that come from KNS.


----------



## JChooMtl

QCDawg said:


> The KING.. is the nashiji knifewear 210. I think they only have a dozen or so left. With the exchange rate? It’s under $190, usd



I need to ask, what makes the Knifewear nashiji version the king? Is it just the finish? I already have the drop nose santokuish version and the newer oil quenched version of the 210 gyuto from Maxim but I can be convinced to get a 3rd one just for the hell of it. Especially with the free shipping and only 5% tax since I’m in Quebec and Knifewear is not.


----------



## J.C

bahamaroot said:


> I don't find this to be true. My 210 from CC is 216mm and my 240 is 245mm. About the same as I've seen that come from KNS.


All i see was just from the website. They have size 225 and this listed as 250


----------



## bahamaroot

They may order them different lengths, don't really know. I've seen them listed as 215, 220 and 245 in the past too. When I bought mine they were listed as 210 and 240. Hell, maybe they just list each batch at the average length they come in at.


----------



## MarkC

panda said:


> i just got one today a 240 gyuto. though this one is listed at 250mm which was a big part of the reason i chose to pick one up.
> didnt want to post in the JNS thread for this because i got it from cleancut. they also offer a KU version.
> 
> i am blown away by it. mind you this is just initial impressions.
> 
> profile is not nearly as good as it looks in photo but it's fine and can also be adjusted. but good news it does run long and tall. each flat section is about an inch which is fine because the curve is gradual and not belly. stock starts off fat at the handle but tapers aggressively at the start then gradual taper and then aggressive again at the tip. spine to edge tapering is there as well, quite thin behind the edge as in a lot of meat taken off as you get closer to the edge. because of that it's not hefty feeling yet it kinda does, hard to explain. i would say it's in between a mid and workhorse. from initial cutting (30 seconds) i'd say the grind is fully convex right face, with a very tall wide bevel left face but the shoulder smoothed out, it's pretty good. not watanabe good but it cuts nice. spine and choil are eased quite well, but not rounded. the handle, oh man it's #$%#$%#$^**#& sweet! it looks to me like some kind of cherry wood, D shape and already oil treated, perfectly flush/shaped buffalo horn. this is an extremely good knife, i can't believe it only cost $260 us and arrived in 3 days. i will go on and say this is the best buy out there by far.
> too early to really say but this might be replacing my watanabe even. i will comment about the steel once ive used it more and put on stones.


Can you tell me how you were able to order this handle? I do not see anything like this on the site. Are you still enjoying the knife?


----------



## dsk

So about 3 weeks in, and the 240 gyuto is pretty sweet. I realize everyone isn't hot on the new profile but its working out alright for me so far. Just a few questions/comments:

1. The reactivity/maintenance fear of carbon kind of went out the window with this knife, it wasn't much effort to wipe it down periodically. I also expected things like black onions and metallic tastes but nada. Are these on the low reactivity side?

2. So what 240 gyuto will contrast this knife? Maybe something in aogami 2 but the options are somewhat limited in my criteria. 

3. Stupidest note, gave the knife its second sharpening shortly after dinner, I'm pretty gentle with any chopping so I was a little surprised to find a microchip while washing the knife after preparing a paprikash, but I assume a few more sharpenings will stop that, there were no rolled edges, just the single chip. There was a 0% chance of me noticing midway through prep and I'm assuming someone in the house ended up eating it, or soon will in the leftovers. Did I give someone an unfortunate present or do microchips just pass harmlessly?


----------



## ChefShramrock

dsk said:


> So about 3 weeks in, and the 240 gyuto is pretty sweet. I realize everyone isn't hot on the new profile but its working out alright for me so far. Just a few questions/comments:
> 
> 1. The reactivity/maintenance fear of carbon kind of went out the window with this knife, it wasn't much effort to wipe it down periodically. I also expected things like black onions and metallic tastes but nada. Are these on the low reactivity side?


Man, my Mazaki Nashiji is super reactive. I have been super diligent with wiping between uses, and I had rust 3 times already. I live in the Southern US, and it is really humid. This thing will rust as soon as I look away. I think I hate my Mazaki.


----------



## ian

Yea, my 240 was super reactive too. The 180 petty not quite as much, although I'm also not cutting so many onions with it.


----------



## nyc

dsk said:


> So about 3 weeks in, and the 240 gyuto is pretty sweet. I realize everyone isn't hot on the new profile but its working out alright for me so far. Just a few questions/comments:
> 
> 1. The reactivity/maintenance fear of carbon kind of went out the window with this knife, it wasn't much effort to wipe it down periodically. I also expected things like black onions and metallic tastes but nada. Are these on the low reactivity side?
> 
> 2. So what 240 gyuto will contrast this knife? Maybe something in aogami 2 but the options are somewhat limited in my criteria.
> 
> 3. Stupidest note, gave the knife its second sharpening shortly after dinner, I'm pretty gentle with any chopping so I was a little surprised to find a microchip while washing the knife after preparing a paprikash, but I assume a few more sharpenings will stop that, there were no rolled edges, just the single chip. There was a 0% chance of me noticing midway through prep and I'm assuming someone in the house ended up eating it, or soon will in the leftovers. Did I give someone an unfortunate present or do microchips just pass harmlessly?



This new profile works great for me too. Have been using it more or less exclusively since I got it in early June, barely touching my other 240mm Kurosaki. IMO it excels with raw protein, especially after I thinned it above the curved part of the edge. It’s like a gyuto-cleaver so to speak, but it’s quite versatile all round.

I would say it’s quite reactive, so I try to quite wipe it down as much as it’s practical.

I chipped off the tip and the heel very slightly but it was due to my own carelessness. Stabbed it against the stainless steel sink as I was rinsing it and the heel met with a marble top table the following day. I think it was also due to how thin the edge was especially at the heel. But it was easy enough to reestablish the points.

I think a more traditional gyuto profile would give you a different experience, as would the bullnose profile which is quite popular.


----------



## Viggetorr

Funny about the reactivity, I've had problems with other carbons but my Mazaki has no problems whatsoever with rust.


----------



## dsk

ChefShramrock said:


> Man, my Mazaki Nashiji is super reactive. I have been super diligent with wiping between uses, and I had rust 3 times already. I live in the Southern US, and it is really humid. This thing will rust as soon as I look away. I think I hate my Mazaki.





Viggetorr said:


> Funny about the reactivity, I've had problems with other carbons but my Mazaki has no problems whatsoever with rust.



It's funny even reactivity is across the board. As I have no basis for comparison, I'd hesitantly call mine low reactivity, but it's either because I live in a desert, or I'm way more anal about cleaning it than I realize, or the nashiji is just a rust wand.


----------



## dsk

nyc said:


> This new profile works great for me too. Have been using it more or less exclusively since I got it in early June, barely touching my other 240mm Kurosaki. IMO it excels with raw protein, especially after I thinned it above the curved part of the edge. It’s like a gyuto-cleaver so to speak, but it’s quite versatile all round.
> 
> I would say it’s quite reactive, so I try to quite wipe it down as much as it’s practical.
> 
> I chipped off the tip and the heel very slightly but it was due to my own carelessness. Stabbed it against the stainless steel sink as I was rinsing it and the heel met with a marble top table the following day. I think it was also due to how thin the edge was especially at the heel. But it was easy enough to reestablish the points.
> 
> I think a more traditional gyuto profile would give you a different experience, as would the bullnose profile which is quite popular.



Yeah I've been toying with the idea of a yoshikane or ginga, but I just really like my heel height and they are both so short. The cc Hinoura caught my eye as well. But they are all white #2 as well. I guess the only sub $300 blue options i like are the various tanaka or anryu hammered, and the shiro kamo b2 line at cc.


----------



## QCDawg

dsk said:


> So about 3 weeks in, and the 240 gyuto is pretty sweet. I realize everyone isn't hot on the new profile but its working out alright for me so far. Just a few questions/comments:
> 
> 1. The reactivity/maintenance fear of carbon kind of went out the window with this knife, it wasn't much effort to wipe it down periodically. I also expected things like black onions and metallic tastes but nada. Are these on the low reactivity side?
> 
> 2. So what 240 gyuto will contrast this knife? Maybe something in aogami 2 but the options are somewhat limited in my criteria.
> 
> 3. Stupidest note, gave the knife its second sharpening shortly after dinner, I'm pretty gentle with any chopping so I was a little surprised to find a microchip while washing the knife after preparing a paprikash, but I assume a few more sharpenings will stop that, there were no rolled edges, just the single chip. There was a 0% chance of me noticing midway through prep and I'm assuming someone in the house ended up eating it, or soon will in the leftovers. Did I give someone an unfortunate present or do microchips just pass harmlessly?



Mizuno on sale... great contrast... aogami is superb

Www.carbonknifeco.com


----------



## ChefShramrock

dsk said:


> It's funny even reactivity is across the board. As I have no basis for comparison, I'd hesitantly call mine low reactivity, but it's either because I live in a desert, or I'm way more anal about cleaning it than I realize, or the nashiji is just a rust wand.


I think it has to do with the humidity. The Southern Tennessee area is a big sweaty mess.


----------



## bahamaroot

ChefShramrock said:


> I think it has to do with the humidity. The Southern Tennessee area is a big sweaty mess.


Do you not have air conditioning or do you leave your knives outside? Just as humid here in KY and no problems with rust on my Mazaki.


----------



## Macaroni

I have a relatively new Mazaki Nakiri Nashiji that I love. I haven’t found it to be reactive at all. I live on Long Island and it’s been very humid the last month. I’m fairly diligent about wiping it down, but I definitely have other knives that start to show much more quickly. It’s also a little bit beefier then other Nakiri’s that I’ve used, which is actually helpful for peppers and other slightly tougher veggies. Just means I need to get another / different Nakiri to compliment.


----------



## Gregmega

dsk said:


> So about 3 weeks in, and the 240 gyuto is pretty sweet. I realize everyone isn't hot on the new profile but its working out alright for me so far. Just a few questions/comments:
> 
> 1. The reactivity/maintenance fear of carbon kind of went out the window with this knife, it wasn't much effort to wipe it down periodically. I also expected things like black onions and metallic tastes but nada. Are these on the low reactivity side?
> 
> 2. So what 240 gyuto will contrast this knife? Maybe something in aogami 2 but the options are somewhat limited in my criteria.
> 
> 3. Stupidest note, gave the knife its second sharpening shortly after dinner, I'm pretty gentle with any chopping so I was a little surprised to find a microchip while washing the knife after preparing a paprikash, but I assume a few more sharpenings will stop that, there were no rolled edges, just the single chip. There was a 0% chance of me noticing midway through prep and I'm assuming someone in the house ended up eating it, or soon will in the leftovers. Did I give someone an unfortunate present or do microchips just pass harmlessly?



With the micro chip issue:

I’ve had this problem with one of mine, and I’ve started putting a decent micro edge on them after sharpening (and straight out of the box with new ones) which definitely helps... these are pretty thin behind the edge and need that bit of structure to mitigate damage. I wonder also with the inconsistencies in his volume of work if some are heat treated to the top of the steel’s abilities, I’ve now had two that were off, but I’m no metallurgist, so just speculating.


----------



## ChefShramrock

bahamaroot said:


> Do you not have air conditioning or do you leave your knives outside? Just as humid here in KY and no problems with rust on my Mazaki.


Kentucky is about 5 hours North of Memphis. The humidity is nowhere near the same. We have air conditioning and it is still a hundred and ten degrees in the kitchen. You have sweat rolling down your back at 7 a.m.


----------



## Geigs

dsk said:


> 2. So what 240 gyuto will contrast this knife? Maybe something in aogami 2 but the options are somewhat limited in my criteria.


Moritaka make some Blue 2 although I don't have one myself. Anyone had these knives that could comment? 

Also, first Mazaki incoming, 240 gyuto (25o actual) from Cleancut.


----------



## QCDawg

ian said:


> Is it just me, or does that look completely different from some of the ones from JNS? How tall is that at the heel? Looks shorter at the heel, and with a much(!) flatter profile than mine.


Man... every knife out of that shop is different. My 180 petty actually has that “og- santoku tip” profile. YMMV with Mazaki!


----------



## nyc

Geigs said:


> Moritaka make some Blue 2 although I don't have one myself. Anyone had these knives that could comment?
> 
> Also, first Mazaki incoming, 240 gyuto (25o actual) from Cleancut.


I actually have my eye on the same one. Could you post some pix when you get it?


----------



## Geigs

nyc said:


> I actually have my eye on the same one. Could you post some pix when you get it?


Should be here next week, will upload a few pics


----------



## CiderBear

Geigs said:


> Should be here next week, will upload a few pics


Congrats!! I'd love to see the pics, been wondering what the current CC profile is like


----------



## ared715

My experiences with my 210 kiritsuke and 240 iron clad polished are extreme reactivity in the 1.5 year period I’ve had them.... just like Chefshamrock, I too love in the Southern US (MS) so idk if this is a major determining factor or not but sometimes mine will rust/patina overnight on super humid days.... oh well, more fun for me eliminating the patina as I mostly live a patina-free lifestyle when I have the time.... I really enjoy refinishing and sharpening mazakis blades in particular as they’re almost an open slate to try things I see on this forum and gives me chances to learn... the iron cladding and core are a pleasure to sharpen and have made me buy a lot of new stones synthetic and natural (yep, blaming the knives)...... though that thought process never makes sense to my wife?!?!


----------



## CiderBear

@Geigs have you received it yet?


----------



## Geigs

I love this knife. Fit and finish are great, handle is awesome and it just cuts. Nice heft, seems to work for push cuts and rock chop. Put it through a few pounds of steak and some veggies for fajitas and grinned like a moron the whole time.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Mine is from BST. 250 old JNS version.
I have never had a knife like it before.


----------



## nyc

Congrats! Both knives look awesome. Love the profile. How thick is it coming out of the handle? Some shots of the distal taper if possible.


----------



## ChefShramrock

I really love that original profile. I would love to find one of those with stainless cladding.


----------



## Carl Kotte

nyc said:


> Congrats! Both knives look awesome. Love the profile. How thick is it coming out of the handle? Some shots of the distal taper if possible.



Will give it a try when back from vacation!


----------



## nyc

Carl Kotte said:


> Will give it a try when back from vacation!


Thanks. Enjoy your vacation.


----------



## CiderBear

@Geigs thanks for the photo ! Could I get one with the handle included as well? Seems like the cleancut profile is pretty flat and close to @Carl Kotte's OG profile, unlike the crazy upsweep latest JNS on .


----------



## CiderBear

ChefShramrock said:


> I really love that original profile. I would love to find one of those with stainless cladding.


As far as I know, the only Mazaki stainless cladding are the 210mm from Razorsharp. I wish it's 240mm though, but maybe I should get one for my mom to use when she visits (trying to rationalize here )


----------



## Carl Kotte

CiderBear said:


> @Geigs thanks for the photo ! Could I get one with the handle included as well? Seems like the cleancut profile is pretty flat and close to @Carl Kotte's OG profile, unlike the crazy upsweep latest JNS on .



I think that the OG and CC versions are really similar too, Cider. Wonder if there is any relevant difference. (And why didn’t I get the cc version instead of an old JNS? So many questions...)


----------



## CiderBear

@Carl Kotte if you don't want that JNS, I call dips!


----------



## Carl Kotte

CiderBear said:


> @Carl Kotte if you don't want that JNS, I call dips!



Haha, don’t get your hopes up! I think this is a keeper. There is only one Wasp slayer! But, I promise to keep you in mind if I change my mind!


----------



## Gregmega

Carl Kotte said:


> I think that the OG and CC versions are really similar too, Cider. Wonder if there is any relevant difference. (And why didn’t I get the cc version instead of an old JNS? So many questions...)



Old CC bullnose is still the best of the lot.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Gregmega said:


> Old CC bullnose is still the best of the lot.



This may come across as pedantic and noobish (but the question is posed out of genuine interest), was there an old CC bullnose too (distinct from the JNS one which has been discussed time and again)? Cheers!


----------



## Geigs

nyc said:


> Congrats! Both knives look awesome. Love the profile. How thick is it coming out of the handle? Some shots of the distal taper if possible.



5mm out of handle


----------



## Geigs

CiderBear said:


> @Geigs thanks for the photo ! Could I get one with the handle included as well? Seems like the cleancut profile is pretty flat and close to @Carl Kotte's OG profile, unlike the crazy upsweep latest JNS on .


Here's the only pic with handle I have. Chris Johnson AEBL, Mazaki, Takes a 270. The Mazaki handle is big and girthy!


----------



## CiderBear

Geigs said:


> Here's the only pic with handle I have. Chris Johnson AEBL, Mazaki, Takes a 270. The Mazaki handle is big and girthy!


Thank you. It is keyaki and not ho wood, right?


----------



## Geigs

CiderBear said:


> Thank you. It is keyaki and not ho wood, right?


Not Ho wood but not 100% sure what it is. It is nice though.


----------



## CiderBear

Geigs said:


> Not Ho wood but not 100% sure what it is. It is nice though.



Thank you again and congrats on the knife. Has it been very reactive? 

I'm really curious about the flat spot of the CC VS JNS profile. @Geigs and @Carl Kotte (when you're back from vacation) would you be able to post some photos of the edge on a flat surface?


----------



## Geigs

CiderBear said:


> Thank you again and congrats on the knife. Has it been very reactive?
> 
> I'm really curious about the flat spot of the CC VS JNS profile. @Geigs and @Carl Kotte (when you're back from vacation) would you be able to post some photos of the edge on a flat surface?


It is definitely reactive- cladding has a patina already after one use and was a faint steel smell when cutting onions. I'll try and get some pics on a flat board tonight if not it will have to wait till next week as Im outta town rest of the week.


----------



## CiderBear

@Geigs thank you so much!


----------



## Barmoley

Here’s 240 CC that I have pretty flat up to the red line the heel is a little relieved which is nice for not slamming it into the board. If I didn’t put the heel on the board the edge is flat up to the red line or so.


----------



## dsk

that CC profile has such a balanced look. JNS 'piggy/snub nose' has just enough of a small flatspot for some chopping but certainly not like that.


----------



## Carl Kotte

CiderBear said:


> Thank you again and congrats on the knife. Has it been very reactive?
> 
> I'm really curious about the flat spot of the CC VS JNS profile. @Geigs and @Carl Kotte (when you're back from vacation) would you be able to post some photos of the edge on a flat surface?



Sure, I will do my best. Note though, there is not a single flat surface in my home! So take that into consideration when you get the pictures eventually!


----------



## CiderBear

Thank you so much @Barmoley! That looks like a nice, usable profile

@Carl Kotte haha, I sure hope at least your cutting board is flat


----------



## Carl Kotte

CiderBear said:


> Thank you so much @Barmoley! That looks like a nice, usable profile
> 
> @Carl Kotte haha, I sure hope at least your cutting board is flat



One could hope, but reality disappoints [emoji17]


----------



## Gregmega

Carl Kotte said:


> This may come across as pedantic and noobish (but the question is posed out of genuine interest), was there an old CC bullnose too (distinct from the JNS one which has been discussed time and again)? Cheers!



So of all the variations that have come out, the first 2 vendors to get the original ‘bullnose’ profiles (JNS & CC) were short lived because of how rapidly his style changed. Between those 2 vendors, they called the shots on level of finish, handle, etc. But otherwise, same steel, same geometry, same basic knife. The CC handle, f&f, and level of finish on them was clearly at another level, so for me it was an easy choice. I’m sure the JNS is just fine in every way, so you could say it’s down to minutia. Sadly that profile only lasted for one run before shifting towards the current look.

*for the record, had I known this style wouldn’t last, I’d have grabbed a JNS BN as well.


----------



## Gregmega

A nickel of experience as well... I’ve owned Maz in CC, JNS, KNS, RS, CKTG, KW- multiples of some in the different style geometry, and still- aside some standouts in latest batches, the CC OG is the one I’m most fond of. But I could go on and on about how they’re all just fun knives to use.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Gregmega said:


> So of all the variations that have come out, the first 2 vendors to get the original ‘bullnose’ profiles (JNS & CC) were short lived because of how rapidly his style changed. Between those 2 vendors, they called the shots on level of finish, handle, etc. But otherwise, same steel, same geometry, same basic knife. The CC handle, f&f, and level of finish on them was clearly at another level, so for me it was an easy choice. I’m sure the JNS is just fine in every way, so you could say it’s down to minutia. Sadly that profile only lasted for one run before shifting towards the current look.



Wow, great! Thank you very much for your detailed answer!


----------



## Carl Kotte

Gregmega said:


> A nickel of experience as well... I’ve owned Maz in CC, JNS, KNS, RS, CKTG, KW- multiples of some in the different style geometry, and still- aside some standouts in latest batches, the CC OG is the one I’m most fond of. But I could go on and on about how they’re all just fun knives to use.



You don’t happen to have a family photo of them? 
Very cool! 
I wonder if Mazaki will settle for some specific profile soon or if we can expect him to continue shape shifting in the future too.


----------



## Gregmega

Carl Kotte said:


> You don’t happen to have a family photo of them?
> Very cool!
> I wonder if Mazaki will settle for some specific profile soon or if we can expect him to continue shape shifting in the future too.






Closest I have to a family photo, some had moved on, some were on the bench getting sayas, and some were yet to be. But I never did get a whole family line up and I wish I had.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Gregmega said:


> View attachment 57327
> Closest I have to a family photo, some had moved on, some were on the bench getting sayas, and some were yet to be. But I never did get a whole family line up and I wish I had.



But this is GOOD though! What a nice collection (even if they never presented the entire family; and given the fact the present state of the family is different)! Cool! Thanks!


----------



## DitmasPork

Got the chance to borrow a friend's Mazaki santoku. Very fun little knife! Dig the distinctive profile.


----------



## bahamaroot

When I bought my 210 and 240 I got them from CC because of the nicer handle and better F&F than JNS. CC prices were better too.


----------



## CiderBear

@DitmasPork that's more of a nakiri with a tip than a santoku!


----------



## DitmasPork

CiderBear said:


> @DitmasPork that's more of a nakiri with a tip than a santoku!



Yes it is, but defined as a santoku by maker. It's an atypical profile for sure, which I dig, like a rounded k-tip. If into k-tip santokus, the Kintaro at JKI is worth a look. It's just shapes and dimensions of a piece of metal, one person's tall and short gyuto is another's long and short santoku—just a label of a tool.


----------



## WPerry

DitmasPork said:


> Got the chance to borrow a friend's Mazaki santoku. Very fun little knife! Dig the distinctive profile.



How's the tip performance on this? I'm interested in the KW KU Santoku, but am a little hesitant because the tip performance on my Maz 180 Petty isn't all that great - I don't know if it's the finish that's causing stiction or what, but it's not nearly as good with veggies as my Yoshikane gyuto.


----------



## dsk

WPerry said:


> How's the tip performance on this? I'm interested in the KW KU Santoku, but am a little hesitant because the tip performance on my Maz 180 Petty isn't all that great - I don't know if it's the finish that's causing stiction or what, but it's not nearly as good with veggies as my Yoshikane gyuto.



iirc aren't yoshikane one of the top tier food releasers? If ur petty is anything like my 240 the primary bevel does have some catch to it because of how he finished it, not very noticeable on a gyuto but I suppose exaggerated on a petty.


----------



## WPerry

dsk said:


> iirc aren't yoshikane one of the top tier food releasers?



Couldn't tell you - nothing to compare it against at this point. Stuff will stick to the sides sometimes, but the tip feels almost effortless. 



dsk said:


> If ur petty is anything like my 240 the primary bevel does have some catch to it because of how he finished it, not very noticeable on a gyuto but I suppose exaggerated on a petty.



Ah, just because of the extra heft, you think? The Yoshi is a tad blade-heavy, too, whereas the Maz petty is right at the pinch. Maybe all three things (heft [or lack thereof], balance and finish) are conspiring - something to think about, thanks!


----------



## dsk

WPerry said:


> Couldn't tell you - nothing to compare it against at this point. Stuff will stick to the sides sometimes, but the tip feels almost effortless.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, just because of the extra heft, you think? The Yoshi is a tad blade-heavy, too, whereas the Maz petty is right at the pinch. Maybe all three things (heft [or lack thereof], balance and finish) are conspiring - something to think about, thanks!


 I think it's specifically the grind. There are a few food release videos and some people have done comparisons, Yoshikane ranks near the top in them.


----------



## Nemo

dsk said:


> iirc aren't yoshikane one of the top tier food releasers? If ur petty is anything like my 240 the primary bevel does have some catch to it because of how he finished it, not very noticeable on a gyuto but I suppose exaggerated on a petty.


I suspect that it depends on which Yoshikane. The thick ones have great food release. I suspect the thinner ones less so.


----------



## Xenif

WPerry said:


> How's the tip performance on this? I'm interested in the KW KU Santoku, but am a little hesitant because the tip performance on my Maz 180 Petty isn't all that great - I don't know if it's the finish that's causing stiction or what, but it's not nearly as good with veggies as my Yoshikane gyuto.


My maz 180 petty is actually pretty sticky all over the blade. The original finish also "dragged" through the food, which was more noticeable in the front 1/2. 
I have done some work on it since, flattenend out the blade road, polished it on some jnats, made it so the tip starts the spine, and some minor tuning all around.
It now silks through just about everything, but still quite sticky.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0KUdZeneLB/?igshid=xtav0bh41cnx

Heres a quick video of my 180 petty, sorry for the crappy knife skills, still trying to get used to the knife


----------



## Carl Kotte

Xenif said:


> Heres a quick video of my 180 petty, sorry for the crappy knife skills, still trying to get used to the knife



Nothing wrong with those knife skills! Looks good! (If anything, as far as I can tell, it might have shown that the knife wasn’t the best weapon for some of the tasks - but that was kind of part of the deal right!?)


----------



## DitmasPork

WPerry said:


> How's the tip performance on this? I'm interested in the KW KU Santoku, but am a little hesitant because the tip performance on my Maz 180 Petty isn't all that great - I don't know if it's the finish that's causing stiction or what, but it's not nearly as good with veggies as my Yoshikane gyuto.



Performance is fine—though I'm not best positioned to give a definitive answer. You see, this is the first santoku I've really used—save for my mom's cheap and colorful "Pure Komachi" knives. I've needed to adjust my technique to it since I'm more a gyuto user—I adjust to all of my knives. The flattish profile took a little getting used to. Stiction wasn't an issue anymore than my other knives.

I also have a 180 Maz petty, love it, though to me all knives have their strengths and weaknesses—no such thing as a perfect knife. A few days ago I needed to give my Maz petty a thorough sharpening, had a **** tonne of chips on the edge from prepping a large amount of peaches for cobbler. I guess the edge didn't like running against peach pits.

This is a nice little santoku, gorgeous finish and gets the job done for me. But like I said, I'm not a santoku guy.


----------



## Geigs

CiderBear said:


> I'm really curious about the flat spot of the CC VS JNS profile. @Geigs and @Carl Kotte (when you're back from vacation) would you be able to post some photos of the edge on a flat surface?


----------



## Carl Kotte

@CiderBear




@nyc




(Don’t look too carefully at the background!)


----------



## CiderBear

@Carl Kotte thank you! For some reasons the CC version seems to be more flat than yours , hnmn


----------



## Huntdad

That's a funny background Cider Bear!


----------



## DitmasPork

CiderBear said:


> @Carl Kotte thank you! For some reasons the CC version seems to be more flat than yours , hnmn



"For some reasons..."

The reason is that Naoki Mazaki's work is rather all over the place depending on which batch it's from. I dig my Mazakis, though the two I bought in 2018, just five months apart, have very different profiles and grinds.


----------



## Barmoley

DitmasPork said:


> "For some reasons..."
> 
> The reason is that Naoki Mazaki's work is rather all over the place depending on which batch it's from. I dig my Mazakis, though the two I bought in 2018, just five months apart, have very different profiles and grinds.



Yeah, it seems it is different knife to knife not even batch to batch. I wouldn't make assumptions that all CC knives are flatter than all JNS or whatever. Basically if you find one that works for you just stick with it. Maybe in the future he will settle on something reasonably similar, but for now you never know what you will get.


----------



## Carl Kotte

CiderBear said:


> @Carl Kotte thank you! For some reasons the CC version seems to be more flat than yours , hnmn



Yeah, it does seem so but the difference may appear bigger than it actually is - for several reasons! One of them is a lousy/lazy photographer. Maybe there will be better pictures tomorrow! Or not?!


----------



## ian

Mazaki knives: 943

KKF counts to a million: 1373

Who will get there first?


----------



## Gregmega

ian said:


> Mazaki knives: 943
> 
> KKF counts to a million: 1373
> 
> Who will get there first?



MA ZA KI MA ZA KI MA ZA KI


----------



## McMan

ian said:


> Mazaki knives: 943
> 
> KKF counts to a million: 1373
> 
> Who will get there first?


This Mazaki thread has been viewed 80,000+ times and is still alive and kickin 17 months after it started...


----------



## bahamaroot

I bought my Mazakis 6 months apart and they are definitely different...except for performance. Both perform great as have a few others I have tried that belong to others. His knives may be all over the place but most are performers!


----------



## ian

McMan said:


> This Mazaki thread has been viewed 80,000+ times and is still alive and kickin 17 months after it started...



Yea, and considering that the count to a million thread is 2 years older than this one, I’ve got my money on Mazaki.

Hopefully he keeps the variety coming so we still have something to talk about. “Keep Mazaki weird.” I’ll make the t-shirts.


----------



## dsk

ian said:


> Yea, and considering that the count to a million thread is 2 years older than this one, I’ve got my money on Mazaki.
> 
> Hopefully he keeps the variety coming so we still have something to talk about. “Keep Mazaki weird.” I’ll make the t-shirts.



If he were to bust out his old flat profile in blue 2 or v2 its a done deal.


----------



## MarkC

Help me understand the love for a maker that is changing the profile of their knives with each run?


----------



## Carl Kotte

@CiderBear A second stab









Remember that nothing is flat in my home!


----------



## Carl Kotte

MarkC said:


> Help me understand the love for a maker that is changing the profile of their knives with each run?



One possible explanation: the knives are good regardless of fluctuations in profiles.


----------



## Gregmega

dsk said:


> If he were to bust out his old flat profile in blue 2 or v2 its a done deal.



Oh bro. Now you’re taking.


----------



## Gregmega

MarkC said:


> Help me understand the love for a maker that is changing the profile of their knives with each run?



Anybody’s guess on that one. I will say this though- the vendors that hold him to higher standards have seen way less fluctuation in variety.


----------



## dsk

MarkC said:


> Help me understand the love for a maker that is changing the profile of their knives with each run?



I'd have to guess he has a prodigious talent for knife making considering his various profiles are widely regarded as excellent performers, even if they don't each appeal to everyone.

Not sure whether he's experimenting, or getting bored of a profile and moving on at breakneck speed. Either way it's kind of fascinating.


----------



## Xenif

@dsk 
To throw a bit more fuel into the fire, I recently saw some aogami-2 debas by Mazaki. Its entirely possible one day we will see Mazaki Blue-2 gyuto


----------



## dsk

Xenif said:


> @dsk
> To throw a bit more fuel into the fire, I recently saw some aogami-2 debas by Mazaki. Its entirely possible one day we will see Mazaki Blue-2 gyuto



This prospect makes me foam at the mouth. As much as I want a wat, I cant justify the cost yet, but if maz can do sub 300 blue2 I'm in.


----------



## Xenif

ian said:


> Yea, and considering that the count to a million thread is 2 years older than this one, I’ve got my money on Mazaki.
> 
> Hopefully he keeps the variety coming so we still have something to talk about. “Keep Mazaki weird.” I’ll make the t-shirts.








Way way ahead of you [emoji13]


----------



## Gregmega

dsk said:


> This prospect makes me foam at the mouth. As much as I want a wat, I cant justify the cost yet, but if maz can do sub 300 blue2 I'm in.



His w2 knives are already creeping on the mid 200 mark, so best guess would be that a b2 would already be north of 300. But yeah, a b2 Maz- sign me up. As long as it’s not from jns.


----------



## Xenif

Gregmega said:


> His w2 knives are already creeping on the mid 200 mark, so best guess would be that a b2 would already be north of 300. But yeah, a b2 Maz- sign me up. As long as it’s not from jns.


As I see it right now his B2 of only comes on single bevels, and the prices are 20-25% more than the w2


----------



## Matus

MarkC said:


> Help me understand the love for a maker that is changing the profile of their knives with each run?



I would be very surprised - given the sheer volume of Mazaki knives available around the world - if all these were ground by one person. It is more likely a complete workshop. The got a name for performance - so they will sell basically anything that comes out so watching for consistent shape may not be a priority. Plus they probably are making knives to slightly different specs for different vendors.


----------



## Gregmega

Right. But I’d go there for a b2 gyuto or a suji no problem. So 250*1.25= $312. Then ya throw tax and shipping on that piece. Ahhhhhh, speculative math.


----------



## DitmasPork

Matus said:


> I would be very surprised - given the sheer volume of Mazaki knives available around the world - if all these were ground by one person. It is more likely a complete workshop. The got a name for performance - so they will sell basically anything that comes out so watching for consistent shape may not be a priority. Plus they probably are making knives to slightly different specs for different vendors.


I’ll take the word of a trusted vendor that it’s all done by Naoki. But personally, I wouldn’t care one bit if the knife is made by other people, or a team of people, so long as the QC is there, and it’s a good knife. Wouldn’t even matter to me if it wasn’t even made in Japan—my Mazakis are good, functional knives, at a very reasonable price point, made by whoever they’re made by.


----------



## Matus

DitmasPork said:


> I’ll take the word of a trusted vendor that it’s all done by Naoki. But personally, I wouldn’t care one bit if the knife is made by other people, or a team of people, so long as the QC is there, and it’s a good knife. Wouldn’t even matter to me if it wasn’t even made in Japan—my Mazakis are good, functional knives, at a very reasonable price point, made by whoever they’re made by.


^

I am not doubting what Maksim says about the Mazaki knives he was/is selling. But it does not necessarily must hold foll all the other vendors. I am just looking to make sense of the volume and seemingly endless variations.


----------



## Barmoley

I’ve asked this question a few times, how is it possible for someone to produce this many knives all by himself from beginning to end. Just forging maybe, but also grinding and finishing..... Also not doubting Maksim, just genially interested.


----------



## M1k3

Barmoley said:


> I’ve asked this question a few times, how is it possible for someone to produce this many knives all by himself from beginning to end. Just forging maybe, but also grinding and finishing..... Also not doubting Maksim, just genially interested.



He's a knifebot? Built to make knives 24/7?


----------



## Matus

We know that a pro smith can forge and HT 200+ knives (should we say blanks) a day, but grinding is much more time consuming.


----------



## nyc

Carl Kotte said:


> @CiderBear
> View attachment 57531
> 
> @nyc
> View attachment 57532
> 
> (Don’t look too carefully at the background!)


Thanks! That looks quite similar to mine from JNS, though I’d say mine is a tad thicker coming out of the handle. I was seriously considering the 250mm from CC but it went out of stock about 2-3 days after your initial posts. But with all the talk about a B2 gyuto, perhaps it’s a good thing to wait and see. After all Mazaki-san does love change.


----------



## Carl Kotte

nyc said:


> Thanks! That looks quite similar to mine from JNS, though I’d say mine is a tad thicker coming out of the handle. I was seriously considering the 250mm from CC but it went out of stock about 2-3 days after your initial posts. But with all the talk about a B2 gyuto, perhaps it’s a good thing to wait and see. After all Mazaki-san does love change.



You’re welcome! The photo isn’t great, but it gives a rough idea. To my mind it’s thick coming out of the handle and impressively tapered - cool if your knife is even thicker! [emoji41] With all these fluctuations I wouldn’t be surprised if they differ in this respect too!


----------



## ian

Matus said:


> We know that a pro smith can forge and HT 200+ knives (should we say blanks) a day, but grinding is much more time consuming.



Yea, but even so, should we be surprised at his volume? Say he can do 20 knives a day start to finish. That seems like enough to supply a few vendors.

I seriously don’t know how many of his knives are out there. But if there are 10 examples of each knife type at each vendor that carries him, that could still be less than 1000 knives, which would take like 4 months even if he only does 10 a day, only on weekdays.

Anyway, I have no idea about what any of the actual numbers are here, so maybe this is all bull****, but I just don’t think it’s immediately obvious that one smith couldn’t make enough knives to supply a bunch of vendors. Please educate me if you disagree.


----------



## Matus

I actually don't disagree - we do not know how fast the knives sell. Because so many vendors carry them it creates the impression that we are talking about 'very many' knives, but we actually have little idea 'how many'. So you as may well be right.


----------



## CiderBear

I was reading the KnS blog when I saw this: http://www.knivesandstones.com/blog/japan-trip-july-2019-day-3-from-toyama-to-sanjo/

Relevant part:



> I have one of such hon-sanmai 240mm Gyuto available to my blog readers and it can be purchased here , it is not mentioned anywhere else, and is hidden on the K&S website here. Let’s see who is the lucky guy to grab it.



Sooooo, which one of you guys got a Mazaki in aogami steel and didn't tell?


----------



## Geigs

CiderBear said:


> I was reading the KnS blog when I saw this: http://www.knivesandstones.com/blog/japan-trip-july-2019-day-3-from-toyama-to-sanjo/
> 
> Relevant part:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo, which one of you guys got a Mazaki in aogami steel and didn't tell?


 Sadly not this guy.


----------



## M1k3

CiderBear said:


> I was reading the KnS blog when I saw this: http://www.knivesandstones.com/blog/japan-trip-july-2019-day-3-from-toyama-to-sanjo/
> 
> Relevant part:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo, which one of you guys got a Mazaki in aogami steel and didn't tell?



Not me but I wish it was me!


----------



## preizzo

CiderBear said:


> I was reading the KnS blog when I saw this: http://www.knivesandstones.com/blog/japan-trip-july-2019-day-3-from-toyama-to-sanjo/
> 
> Relevant part:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo, which one of you guys got a Mazaki in aogami steel and didn't tell?


I suppose It s me . Maziking .[emoji16]


----------



## M1k3

preizzo said:


> I suppose It s me . Maziking .[emoji16]



*TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS*


----------



## ChefShramrock

I love that profile. Looks like he took the last two profiles are married them.


----------



## F-Flash

That's best looking mazaki I've seen. No wonder matteo was first one to pull the trigger!


----------



## dsk

ChefShramrock said:


> I love that profile. Looks like he took the last two profiles are married them.



This is where I appreciate a talented guy tinkering, hopefully leading to something great.


----------



## dsk

Also that new nashiji yoshikane is extremely sexy


----------



## CiderBear

@preizzo nuh uh, seriously? Impressions and comparison pics please 
You can't just say that and leave us hanging


----------



## DitmasPork

CiderBear said:


> @preizzo nuh uh, seriously? Impressions and comparison pics please
> You can't just say that and leave us hanging



All hail the Mazaki King!


----------



## pkjames

Talking about volume, you'd be surprised that we receive only very few Mazaki each time, so I won't say his volume is extremely high. I think there are not many takers of Mazaki outside of the enthusiast circle.


----------



## CiderBear

pkjames said:


> Talking about volume, you'd be surprised that we receive only very few Mazaki each time, so I won't say his volume is extremely high. I think there are not many takers of Mazaki outside of the enthusiast circle.



Will you offer the blue gyuto as a standard option in the future? I think everyone here wants one!


----------



## QCDawg

CiderBear said:


> @preizzo nuh uh, seriously? Impressions and comparison pics please
> You can't just say that and leave us hanging


Yeah @priezzo!


----------



## F-Flash

CiderBear said:


> Will you offer the honyaki blue gyuto as a standard option in the future? I think everyone here wants one!


Yep, I'm in!


----------



## DitmasPork

Matus said:


> ^
> 
> I am not doubting what Maksim says about the Mazaki knives he was/is selling. But it does not necessarily must hold foll all the other vendors. I am just looking to make sense of the volume and seemingly endless variations.



My first Mazaki, a 240 older bull nose profile gyuto, was finished so poorly that I wondered how much time Mazaki spent on it, figured it was taken to a point where Mazaki simply thought "ah, good enough, time to move on to the next knife, ...just 200 knives to go by next week, woohoo!"

That Mazaki is still one of my fave and best performing knives despite the poor finish.

I echo @CiderBear with her blue steel query. Personally, I'd jump on a blue steel Maz gyuto!


----------



## HRC_64

F-Flash said:


> CiderBear said: ↑
> 
> Will you offer the honyaki blue gyuto as a standard option in the future? I think everyone here wants one!
> 
> Yep, I'm in!



The fine print is worth noting...that's not a honyaki ...and the report confirms that all of Mazaki standard production is pre-fab laminate....Mazaki is NOT blacksmithing start to finish by hand (in that sense)...which explains alot

The blue steel knife is one of the very few knives he made san-mai himself.



> ...[Mazaki] did deliver us a new batch of knives before he left and apart from the Migaki line, among the knives there is also one super rare hon-sanmai Blue 2 Gyuto. Hon-sanmai here means the sanmai (3-layer, for double bevel knife) billet is cladded by the maker using traditional forge welding method rather than using a pre-cladded billet from the steel factory. These days, most makers are using pre-cladded billets in order to speed up the production and reduce the chance of failure, because forge welding the iron clad with the steel is a point of failure during the knife making process, as the welding could fail if not done properly resulting in a crack forming between the cladding and steel, sometimes even a total split. (Another point of failure is during the heat treading process). As a result, cladding a sanmai billing can inherently be trickier than just doing a nimai (2 layer; for single bevel knife) billet.


----------



## Gregmega

That blue looked great. But 240 is a no-fly zone for me. So when/if he comes back with blue in a shorter length, I guess I’ll break my moratorium on Maz purchases and pick up lucky number 13.


----------



## pkjames

CiderBear said:


> Will you offer the blue gyuto as a standard option in the future? I think everyone here wants one!


I probably can't talk about product related things here, rather just to give a bit of what I think about the whole Mazaki frenzy.

I find it a bit odd though, that there aren't many blue offerings from Sanjo. Maybe I can ask why it is like when given the chance.


----------



## CiderBear

@pkjames my bad, James, I had no idea. Thank you for sharing your thoughts though!


----------



## M1k3

pkjames said:


> I probably can't talk about product related things here, rather just to give a bit of what I think about the whole Mazaki frenzy.
> 
> I find it a bit odd though, that there aren't many blue offerings from Sanjo. Maybe I can ask why it is like when given the chance.



As you already know, I'm definitely interested in a Sanjo style gyuto in blue.


----------



## labor of love

After staring at these new ones at carbon for 30 seconds I knew it was time to join team mazaki.
https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/mazaki


----------



## labor of love

Kinda regretting that I only bought one though. I feel like magical things could happen with that 180mm petty.


----------



## Barmoley

Do tell which one broke you


----------



## labor of love

240mm nashiji KU gyuto. Duh.


----------



## Barmoley

labor of love said:


> 240mm nashiji KU gyuto. Duh.


I figured as much, but one never knows


----------



## Gregmega

labor of love said:


> After staring at these new ones at carbon for 30 seconds I knew it was time to join team mazaki.
> https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/mazaki



It’s so good.


----------



## MarkC

Gregmega said:


> It’s so good.


Which one did you buy?


----------



## Jon-cal

labor of love said:


> Kinda regretting that I only bought one though. I feel like magical things could happen with that 180mm petty.



I have one of the JNS 180 pettys. I wasn’t sure I’d like it but it’s a super useful size. Those nashiji KU look great. I think cleancut had something similar a while ago. I thought I had enough Mazaki but those have me thinking again...


----------



## CiderBear

Oh no I really want one of each


----------



## Xenif

That nashiji KU is really nice ..... *Tempted* 

Oh this thread just got past 1000 posts! Time to celebrate by posting your Mazakis


----------



## labor of love

Yeah, tbh it’s kinda difficult to decide which version to get. Kasumi looks cool too. This batch has meat on its bones. 260gram 240 will be a lot of fun.


----------



## Koakuma

Glad to see 240mm on the Mazaki nashiji. Is carbonknifeco's profile different from JNS and others?


----------



## labor of love

I feel like he just tweaks the profile with each batch. Hard to say, different photos and different angles.


----------



## minibatataman

Here we go again


----------



## Keat

Just ordered the 240mm nashiji KU. I had been eyeing the 210mm for a while but always wanted to 240mm.


----------



## MarkC

Can someone remind me how reactive these are? I do very little if any protein cutting and use knives for vegetables primarily.


----------



## wind88

The kasumi is pretty reactive like most ironclad though.


----------



## labor of love

The kasumi I tried had a stable patina. Others have commented that they find mazaki to be reactive. I’m not sure. Not really worried about it.


----------



## ian

The 240 I had seemed very reactive, but maybe I hadn’t let the patina develop enough yet. My well used 180 petty is totally stable, though: hardly have to worry about it. Both quickly acquired a full spectrum of crazy colors OOTB, though.


----------



## labor of love

Koakuma said:


> Glad to see 240mm on the Mazaki nashiji. Is carbonknifeco's profile different from JNS and others?


Here’s a pic Craig sent me of mine while it’s getting fitted for a saya. Not sure how the profile compares to past mazakis but I do like the way it looks.


----------



## ian

Looks flatter than the most recent JNS profiles, at least. I can never tell from photos though.


----------



## Ryndunk

Looks similar to clean cut


----------



## CiderBear

I like the profile a lot. Congrats!


----------



## marc4pt0

Ignored my self imposed ban on buying knives for this recent round of nashiji ku. I have one of these from the original run a while back. It's the 210 (aka 219x53mm), and it's the only one I've kept. The other 2 kasumi mazaki gyutos I have sold.
These nashiji ku versions are so fantastic in my opinion. So I picked up a 210. Then gave it a few hours of thought and went back for a 240 as well. Couldn't help myself. So here we go.


Forgot to add a pic of my current one...


----------



## labor of love

marc4pt0 said:


> Ignored my self imposed ban on buying knives for this recent round of nashiji ku. I have one of these from the original run a while back. It's the 210 (aka 219x53mm), and it's the only one I've kept. The other 2 kasumi mazaki gyutos I have sold.
> These nashiji ku versions are so fantastic in my opinion. So I picked up a 210. Then gave it a few hours of thought and went back for a 240 as well. Couldn't help myself. So here we go.


Well, you know what they say: Kato in the streets Mazaki in the sheets.


----------



## marc4pt0

At this point I have no more Katos. I wouldn't mind a larger 210, but can't justify the prices. As much as I loved my western katos, I'll take my current Mazaki over a Kato anytime.


----------



## Stratguy

marc4pt0 said:


> Ignored my self imposed ban on buying knives for this recent round of nashiji ku. I have one of these from the original run a while back. It's the 210 (aka 219x53mm), and it's the only one I've kept. The other 2 kasumi mazaki gyutos I have sold.
> These nashiji ku versions are so fantastic in my opinion. So I picked up a 210. Then gave it a few hours of thought and went back for a 240 as well. Couldn't help myself. So here we go.
> 
> 
> Forgot to add a pic of my current one...
> 
> 
> View attachment 61120



Beautiful knife. The profile on that is quite different than the ones on Carbon. They both look good, but I prefer this one.


----------



## daveb

labor of love said:


> Well, you know what they say: Kato in the streets Mazaki in the sheets.



Toyama makes em all anyway......


----------



## labor of love

I dont always buy knives, but when I do I go for Watoyamazakato. They are superior.


----------



## marc4pt0

Can cut through tin cans, sneakers aaaannnnddd still through a tomato


----------



## jonnachang

Might need a couple siblings for these two.Mazaki [emoji173]️


----------



## CiderBear

@jonnachang is the 210mm from Knifewear?


----------



## M1k3

marc4pt0 said:


> Can cut through tin cans, sneakers aaaannnnddd still through a tomato



How about a wasp?


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> How about a wasp?



If you leave the knife out, edge up, a sunny day any Wasp thinking it has found a nice place to rest will soon realize that it is now two half-wasps.


----------



## marc4pt0

M1k3 said:


> How about a wasp?



White Anglo Saxon Protestant? I suspect so


----------



## Marek07

MarkC said:


> Which one did you buy?


Which *one* you ask? Surely you jest!


----------



## labor of love

CiderBear said:


> Oh no I really want one of each


Bear, I can definitely throw mine in the box with the hinoura when that times comes. If you would like.


----------



## nyc

https://imgur.com/gallery/TBpv2Gh
https://imgur.com/gallery/o4KPmzz
Just picked up these 2 on Friday via JNS and CC respectively.
* Apologies, can’t seem to post photos, so it’s just the links on imgur.


----------



## Stratguy

jonnachang said:


> Might need a couple siblings for these two.Mazaki [emoji173]️View attachment 61123



I want that 240!


----------



## DitmasPork

marc4pt0 said:


> Ignored my self imposed ban on buying knives for this recent round of nashiji ku. I have one of these from the original run a while back. It's the 210 (aka 219x53mm), and it's the only one I've kept. The other 2 kasumi mazaki gyutos I have sold.
> These nashiji ku versions are so fantastic in my opinion. So I picked up a 210. Then gave it a few hours of thought and went back for a 240 as well. Couldn't help myself. So here we go.
> 
> 
> Forgot to add a pic of my current one...
> 
> 
> View attachment 61120



I actually prefer this profile, kinda like the earlier, more bull nose profile.


----------



## CiderBear

@labor of love that would be awesome, thank you!


----------



## CiderBear

@nyc CC meaning Cleancut? I thought they ran out of Mazaki completely until the next shipment


----------



## nyc

CiderBear said:


> @nyc CC meaning Cleancut? I thought they ran out of Mazaki completely until the next shipment


Yup Cleancut. The purchase was made a couple of months back but I just picked them up over the weekend as I’m not based at the delivery address. 
They were out of stock but when I contacted them about the restock, they said they had one last sujihiki. That’s how I wound up with it.


----------



## DisconnectedAG

Folks, a Mazaki question - I have the nashiji 210 and wanted to get teh 240 as well, as the Maz is by far my favourite knife. However, if I get it, it will be later this eyar and I have this illogical paranoia that due to the hype and the pressure to put out a lot of product Mazaki will start skimping on quality. Am I being stupid here? I genuinely love my mazaki and how it feels.


----------



## CiderBear

@DisconnectedAG I don't know what to tell you other than buy used when the time comes? If you read all 35 pages of this thread, you will learn that there seem to be noticeable batch variations in his recent output, and nobody here can guarantee you what his next few batches will be like.


----------



## DisconnectedAG

CiderBear said:


> @DisconnectedAG I don't know what to tell you other than buy used when the time comes? If you read all 35 pages of this thread, you will learn that there seem to be noticeable batch variations in his recent output, and nobody here can guarantee you what his next few batches will be like.


I know. This makes perfect sense.  I know that CKC has a new batch, but will probably wait for Cleancut to get their stock back in again. Although I am on the lookout for the old ones as and when they come up.


----------



## labor of love

DisconnectedAG said:


> Folks, a Mazaki question - I have the nashiji 210 and wanted to get teh 240 as well, as the Maz is by far my favourite knife. However, if I get it, it will be later this eyar and I have this illogical paranoia that due to the hype and the pressure to put out a lot of product Mazaki will start skimping on quality. Am I being stupid here? I genuinely love my mazaki and how it feels.


I wouldn’t worry about it. His prices are steadily rising. Take a look at all the photos at carbon, they look like they have improved finish. I want to say that with each batch and each month he’s improving what he does. Mazaki has a great teacher, but experience is the best teacher.


----------



## CiderBear

@labor of love I do think that yours look very close to the CC kasumi profile which seems flatter than the last JNS batch (yuck)


----------



## ian

DisconnectedAG said:


> Folks, a Mazaki question - I have the nashiji 210 and wanted to get teh 240 as well, as the Maz is by far my favourite knife. However, if I get it, it will be later this eyar and I have this illogical paranoia that due to the hype and the pressure to put out a lot of product Mazaki will start skimping on quality. Am I being stupid here? I genuinely love my mazaki and how it feels.



To my knowledge, he doesn't have that reputation. There's variation, but I haven't heard a lot of complaints from buyers like with TF or something.


----------



## labor of love

I don’t really remember what the most recent CC mazakis looked like. I know CC had the bullnose initially. 
Yes, the most recent JNS stuff was...not for me


----------



## nyc

@DisconnectedAG I’d be more concerned about the price increase. And as @ian said, it’s hardly like TF thought undeniably there has been variations. The sujihiki I just picked has a more realised kasumi finish than the 240 profile from JNS which has not been popular. That said this profile version has turned out to be my go-to gyuto. It needed some thinning in the front 2 inches but that aside it’s been great.


----------



## labor of love

Mazaki from carbonknife arrived. Mine is 52.5mm tall 244mm long 261 grams with a massive 5.75mm spine over the choil (at the handle it’s probably even fatter). The distal taper ofcourse looks great.
OOTB “polishing” always seemed like an overrated topic and this is where Maz cuts corners thank god. The blade had some faux frosted looking finish that looks just nice enough for people that care about such things.
OOTB edge is terrible. But I don’t mind at all. I’ll throw a quick edge on it tomorrow before work.
Blade is ground quite thin. I’ve used early mazaki knives from CC and this one much thinner. Might even need a microbevel, especially with 260 grams of weight above the edge.
My initial impressions are the same as most when it comes to mazaki. You get a lot of knife especially in the performance department for the money.


----------



## DisconnectedAG

Thanks guys. I have the kuro finish one, so may get another one of those but in 240mm.


----------



## labor of love

Just sharpened up this new mazaki. I’m guessing the only other one I’ve used had heat treat issues or something because this one sharpened quickly and took a screaming edge.
The only other maz I’ve sharpened was pandas which is the knife that started this thread. If you look back and read the first page or so you’ll see we were both kinda let down with how it performed on the stones.
Either way, whatever. Maybe we had a dud. Really enjoyed the edge taking on this one.


----------



## CiderBear

@labor of love nice! Really glad to hear you like it so far


----------



## nyc

labor of love said:


> Just sharpened up this new mazaki. I’m guessing the only other one I’ve used had heat treat issues or something because this one sharpened quickly and took a screaming edge.
> The only other maz I’ve sharpened was pandas which is the knife that started this thread. If you look back and read the first page or so you’ll see we were both kinda let down with how it performed on the stones.
> Either way, whatever. Maybe we had a dud. Really enjoyed the edge taking on this one.


@labor of love How does one spot heat treat issues? What are the tell tale signs?


----------



## labor of love

nyc said:


> @labor of love How does one spot heat treat issues? What are the tell tale signs?


I have no idea other than to say a blade shouldn’t feel like a piece of wood while your sharpening it.


----------



## nyc

labor of love said:


> I have no idea other than to say a blade shouldn’t feel like a piece of wood while your sharpening it.


That’s interesting. I’d assume that it would also translate to issues of edge and edge retention as well?


----------



## labor of love

Not so much. The blade took much longer to sharpen than what I would expect from wh2. Still could take quite an edge. It was just off.


----------



## Gregmega

The only Mazaki that changed over time were the JNS. All the other vendors were fairly consistent. He seems to be finding a nice rhythm now and still massive value for the price. The new ones from CKC/Craig are as good as any I’ve seen. So probably no need to worry about issues in the future. Especially since JNS isn’t flipping seconds into the market anymore. That’s not confirmed of course, just an observation.


----------



## nyc

Gregmega said:


> The only Mazaki that changed over time were the JNS. All the other vendors were fairly consistent. He seems to be finding a nice rhythm now and still massive value for the price. The new ones from CKC/Craig are as good as any I’ve seen. So probably no need to worry about issues in the future. Especially since JNS isn’t flipping seconds into the market anymore. That’s not confirmed of course, just an observation.


I’m new to Mazaki. Can I ask what you mean by “seconds”? Does it mean knives that aren’t quite right (perhaps not fully defective) but are offered to the market at discounted prices?


----------



## marc4pt0

Gregmega said:


> ...The new ones from CKC/Craig are as good as any I’ve seen. So probably no need to worry about issues in the future...



I have to agree. The Kurouchi nashiji 210 and 240 gyutos I received Monday are really quite impressive. I've only tried a 210 and 240 from JNS, when the profile initially changed and the coal temper thingy came in to play, and a couple others from CC and Razor. Of those I've kept just one. The others just didn't really grab me so much. But these from CKC are really impressive (to me).


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> I have no idea other than to say a blade shouldn’t feel like a piece of wood while your sharpening it.


this is a perfect description of not ideal heat treat


----------



## CiderBear

@marc4pt0 pictures and specs pls


----------



## marc4pt0

Forgive me with this next post. Going to geek out a bit here.
Of the 3 gyutos below, the one with the pretty blue patina is the older one. The shiny ones are new from Craig at CKC.
Pics are from cell phone, which seem to become grainy when uploaded here. Not too sure why.













Here the 240 is on the bottom, and the older 210 is on top (5.8mm, 6mm and 6.2mm respectively)


----------



## marc4pt0

CiderBear said:


> @marc4pt0 pictures and specs pls


 
Funny, I was typing when you post this. See above


----------



## CiderBear

@marc4pt0 haha, I saw. They look lovely! What are the weights of them?


----------



## marc4pt0

Older 210 is 219 x 51.35mm, 183.92g
Newer 210 is 216 x 51.3mm, 202.84g
240 is 246 x 54mm, 258.8g


----------



## CiderBear

Perfect, thank you. Sounds like the new batch is chunky! Let us know how they perform when you can


----------



## Gregmega

nyc said:


> I’m new to Mazaki. Can I ask what you mean by “seconds”? Does it mean knives that aren’t quite right (perhaps not fully defective) but are offered to the market at discounted prices?



I’m mean it’s pure speculation- but yes. His knives coming out of JNS were all over the place while the other vendors were pretty consistent and solid, as well the finishes were at a higher level. But it’s pretty standard practice for vendors to call the shots on what they sell in their own retail location. And the new ones at CKC are certainly no exception- there pretty nice in every way.


----------



## marc4pt0

I’ve only spent a little time with the 210 yesterday, but initial thoughts are positive. Horizontal cuts on yellow onion feel like I don’t even need to use my left hand to hold the onion in place. It just flies through that easily


----------



## ashy2classy

The nashiji series are the best, IMO. I love mine.


----------



## Keat

Man, those photos and specs look great. I'll post specs of my 240 when it arrives later this week.


----------



## ashy2classy

marc4pt0 said:


> Forgive me with this next post. Going to geek out a bit here.
> Of the 3 gyutos below, the one with the pretty blue patina is the older one. The shiny ones are new from Craig at CKC.
> Pics are from cell phone, which seem to become grainy when uploaded here. Not too sure why.



GD Marc! I didn't know Craig was selling 270s and you made me go and buy a nashiji. And I want a kasumi, too. F**K!!!


----------



## HRC_64

New Mazakis look great...its cool he brought back the 'textured' KU finish...


----------



## marc4pt0

ashy2classy said:


> GD Marc! I didn't know Craig was selling 270s and you made me go and buy a nashiji. And I want a kasumi as well. F**K!!!



Haha!


----------



## dsk

Mazaki with the hype again. I just have to keep reminding myself that I am not a KU fan, and ignore the kasumi also on ckc... and stick with my plan of going deep with a shihan or kippington. In any case I'm probably in the minority that kinda likes the JNS profile.


----------



## labor of love

dsk said:


> Mazaki with the hype again. I just have to keep reminding myself that I am not a KU fan, and ignore the kasumi also on ckc... and stick with my plan of going deep with a shihan or kippington. In any case I'm probably in the minority that kinda likes the JNS profile.


Keep your sights set on Shihan. Only until its in your possession will you realize its worth it.


----------



## labor of love

dsk said:


> Mazaki with the hype again. I just have to keep reminding myself that I am not a KU fan, and ignore the kasumi also on ckc... and stick with my plan of going deep with a shihan or kippington. In any case I'm probably in the minority that kinda likes the JNS profile.


Wait a sec....you wouldnt want shihan KU? Its really really cool.


----------



## dsk

labor of love said:


> Wait a sec....you wouldnt want shihan KU? Its really really cool.


shihan KU is the one exception because it's very minimal, but standard nashiji KU like Hinoura or Mune I'm not so hot on. I have a mune petty and the finish is just 'eh' for me. I like the knife fine enough and it's a petty so I keep.


----------



## ian

Like the look of KU in general, but on a gyuto a textured KU finish irritates my (left) knuckles when doing fast (right handed) chopping. Does noone else have that problem? Maybe all you pros have such huge calluses that it doesn’t matter to you...

Maybe it’d be fine with a Shihan, though, where the KU is minimal...


----------



## marc4pt0

labor of love said:


> Keep your sights set on Shihan. Only until its in your possession will you realize its worth it.



Not to go too far off topic, but I’m hearing some great things about these Shihan blades. Almost wish I would have pulled the trigger on one of these. 

Outside of the couple of blades I have on the books coming up I was at a stop on buying knives. But these mazaki ku nashiji blades have been a want for a while. And then that damned Raquin butcher just popped up on bst, fudging up the whole plan. What’s next, someone going to offer me a Billipp?? Trying not to buy knives here people! Help a brother out. 
Guess that’s what I get for laughing at Ashy’s post about buying a 270 Mazaki.... karma is such a bitter Betty


----------



## labor of love

marc4pt0 said:


> Not to go too far off topic, but I’m hearing some great things about these Shihan blades. Almost wish I would have pulled the trigger on one of these.
> 
> Outside of the couple of blades I have on the books coming up I was at a stop on buying knives. But these mazaki ku nashiji blades have been a want for a while. And then that damned Raquin butcher just popped up on bst, fudging up the whole plan. What’s next, someone going to offer me a Billipp?? Trying not to buy knives here people! Help a brother out.
> Guess that’s what I get for laughing at Ashy’s post about buying a 270 Mazaki.... karma is such a bitter Betty


Shihan was a delight to work with for a custom. Ill definitely deal with him direct again in the future.


----------



## marc4pt0

Not helping


----------



## MrHiggins

dsk said:


> shihan KU is the one exception because it's very minimal . . .



There's a thinned Shi-Han in A2 on the BST. Just sayin' (and shilling for myself). [emoji12]


----------



## Koakuma

Just got my 240 ku nashiji today. It’s heavier than I thought at 261g. 248mm edge and 53.3 tall. So far I love the way ku nashiji looks. Can’t wait to take it to work later this week. Ootb edge is pretty decent. 
https://imgur.com/a/xcKGVSs


----------



## CiderBear

From the choil shots on CKC, it looks to me like the kasumi line has a slightly thinner grind than the KU. Does anyone feel the same?

@Koakuma didn't you just get a TF like, yesterday?  nice knife btw, looks chunky. I think something like this would be too heavy for me though


----------



## Koakuma

CiderBear said:


> From the choil shots on CKC, it looks to me like the kasumi line has a slightly thinner grind than the KU. Does anyone feel the same?
> 
> @Koakuma didn't you just get a TF like, yesterday?  nice knife btw, looks chunky. I think something like this would be too heavy for me though


Yeah, I returned my TF so that one is for replacement for TF.


----------



## Barmoley

marc4pt0 said:


> Not to go too far off topic, but I’m hearing some great things about these Shihan blades. Almost wish I would have pulled the trigger on one of these.
> 
> Outside of the couple of blades I have on the books coming up I was at a stop on buying knives. But these mazaki ku nashiji blades have been a want for a while. And then that damned Raquin butcher just popped up on bst, fudging up the whole plan. What’s next, someone going to offer me a Billipp?? Trying not to buy knives here people! Help a brother out.
> Guess that’s what I get for laughing at Ashy’s post about buying a 270 Mazaki.... karma is such a bitter Betty


I like your older mazaki the best, just purely from pictures and the way the profile looks. I will also mirror what labor said about Shehan, good guy to deal with. Here is the one he made me recently.


----------



## Keat

Just looking at the choil shots again on CKC and the 240 ku gyuto and 180 ku petty are already sold out. That was fast.


----------



## dsk

Keat said:


> Just looking at the choil shots again on CKC and the 240 ku gyuto and 180 ku petty are already sold out. That was fast.


Bullet train of hype. Good for them, bad for anyone on the fence


----------



## bahamaroot

No hype to it, it's just a badass knife at a great price.


----------



## Colonel Mustard

Keat said:


> Just looking at the choil shots again on CKC and the 240 ku gyuto and 180 ku petty are already sold out. That was fast.


Such good news. I couldn't justify to myself getting another 240 Mazaki but I kept eyeing the new ones at CKC.


----------



## nyc

dsk said:


> Mazaki with the hype again. I just have to keep reminding myself that I am not a KU fan, and ignore the kasumi also on ckc... and stick with my plan of going deep with a shihan or kippington. In any case I'm probably in the minority that kinda likes the JNS profile.


The profile is my go to gyuto. I realise a lot people detest it. But for me, it’s incredibly versatile - almost feels like 2 knives in 1. I think if I had sprung for the 210 instead of the 240, I’d have found it even more versatile.


----------



## DisconnectedAG

ashy2classy said:


> The nashiji series are the best, IMO. I love mine.


Same. It's easily my favourite knife.


----------



## DisconnectedAG

Gah, it's sold out already. I am cry. I really want that 240 maz.


----------



## ian

(deleted)


----------



## Matus

Guys, please keep this thread on topic and take semantics and whether J-knife buyers are well informed elsewhere. There is really no need to start the same discussion in every other thread. Thank you.


----------



## Midsummer

Matus said:


> Guys, please keep this thread on topic and take semantics and whether J-knife buyers are well informed elsewhere. There is really no need to start the same discussion in every other thread. Thank you.



Done. My apologies.


----------



## CiderBear

Based on the specs from @labor of love and @Koakuma, I have a feeling the 240mm nashiji would be too heavy for me. I borrowed a 240mm Wat KU from @daveb last month and at 254g I could barely lift it.

Labor and Kuma, perhaps the keyaki handle makes the knives feel more balanced? Dave's Wat felt pretty blade heavy, and I got a similar feeling with a much lighter Toyama (217g iirc) since both had ho wood handles. I feel like my 233g Wat with keyaki feels really balanced in comparison. Wondering if the keyaki handles do the same thing for your Maz.

Also, did anyone here get the CKC kasumi? Would love to have some specs on those as well


----------



## Koakuma

CiderBear said:


> Based on the specs from @labor of love and @Koakuma, I have a feeling the 240mm nashiji would be too heavy for me. I borrowed a 240mm Wat KU from @daveb last month and at 254g I could barely lift it.
> 
> Labor and Kuma, perhaps the keyaki handle makes the knives feel more balanced? Dave's Wat felt pretty blade heavy, and I got a similar feeling with a much lighter Toyama (217g iirc) since both had ho wood handles. I feel like my 233g Wat with keyaki feels really balanced in comparison. Wondering if the keyaki handles do the same thing for your Maz.
> 
> Also, did anyone here get the CKC kasumi? Would love to have some specs on those as well


Yeah, the balance is right at the pinch grip for me.


----------



## Gregmega

dsk said:


> Bullet train of hype. Good for them, bad for anyone on the fence



Buy one, use it, come back here, and tell us it’s hype.


----------



## atb

I really couldnt help myself. This CKC batch looks too good. Grabbed a 180mm petty kasumi. REalllyy wanted the suji but I couldnt do it. Luckily I know where to find those if I want to come back to it.


----------



## dsk

Gregmega said:


> Buy one, use it, come back here, and tell us it’s hype.


I have a maz its not like I'm using the word hype pejoratively, just that maz gets everyone's engines roaring fast is all.

To clarify since hype clearly means many things.


----------



## AT5760

Anyone have experience with the nakiris? New batch or older.


----------



## labor of love

DisconnectedAG said:


> Gah, it's sold out already. I am cry. I really want that 240 maz.


If you want mine send me a PM.


----------



## CiderBear

@Xenif has a Maz nakiri, but it's not in the standard size. I'd love to get the kasumi nakiri and get it all nasty with patina though.  the choil shot of that looks so sweet


----------



## inferno

did you know that CC is now out of mazakis? 

I was in the store checking a few of of them out, the 240ies. got the hinoura white 2 instead, felt like better qual imo.


----------



## panda

yall are nuts with this hype. buying up 3 of the same damn knife 

it's just a really good beater, like a civic.


----------



## Nemo

panda said:


> yall are nuts with this hype. buying up 3 of the same damn knife
> 
> it's just a really good beater, like a civic.


You driven the new civic?

I wouldn't buy 3 though.


----------



## HRC_64

Nemo said:


> You driven the new civic?


Pretty sure 1990s Civic would survive the apocalypse


----------



## M1k3

HRC_64 said:


> Pretty sure 1990s Civic would survive the apocalypse



It would be a Toyata Hi-lux


----------



## Xenif

AT5760 said:


> Anyone have experience with the nakiris? New batch or older.


I have the JNS KU "Big Maz" very awesome nakiri, just had a friend picknup a 165 Nashiji, the choil looks great on it


----------



## Koakuma

I had put the 240 ku nashiji through a day of prep, and I have to say the hype is real for this Mazaki. First to my surprise, the ootb edge on my Mazaki was one of the best I’ve used. The reactivity isn’t bad, it had build up some patina but no rust even tho I was not able to wipe it clean every time. It had went through a case of broccoli, carrot and celery, and by the end of the day the edge is still great. It move through everything effortlessly.


----------



## labor of love

Just wait till you sharpen it. My ootb edge kinda sucked. But it took a screaming edge real quick.


----------



## CiderBear

@Xenif come on man, you can't say that without showing us the choil 

Would your friend say that the 165mm nakiri runs a bit longer? (say 170, give or take 1-2 mm)


----------



## lobby

been looking for a 270 suji, picked up a KU one. anyone know a saya that will fit? CKC doesnt have any


----------



## parbaked

Shops that sell sayas online usually don't allow you to return it if it doesn't fit properly.
Best is to go to a knife shop and have a saya fit to the knife.
If that is not possible, Edro can make one for you.
https://edro-made.myshopify.com/collections/saya/products/slicer-sujihiki
I'd send Edro a tracing of your knife to make sure the saya fits as well as possible. 
https://edro-made.myshopify.com/pages/custom-saya


----------



## DitmasPork

panda said:


> yall are nuts with this hype. buying up 3 of the same damn knife
> 
> it's just a really good beater, like a civic.



It's like buying wine, they vary vintage to vintage.


----------



## Keat

My CKC KU Nashiji weighed in at 263g. Actual length was about 245mm and 53mm high. 

I’ve cut up a few onions, potatoes and a cabbage - I would reiterate everything positive said about the performance, it cuts extremely well. My ootb edge was very sharp. And reactivity seems low. Best bang for buck knife I’ve had.


----------



## CiderBear

Thanks for the data points, everyone. 

No one here has gotten a CKC kasumi yet? I'm dying to know the specs on those


----------



## sumofruit

@CiderBear , I've ordered a CKC kasumi in 240, and Craig/team sent me this photo of the actual knife I'm getting (alongside the nashiji 210 I also ordered, and both inside their sayas). Haven't received them yet so can't measure, but CKC did mention the kasumis were thinner (which makes sense). They also said there was some variation among the knives even in the same line, and picked out one for me that was particularly thin behind the edge (vs some they deemed as more 'workhorsey'). If you'd like more info on the kasumis, I'd encourage you to call them directly -- they were super nice. Hope this helps!


----------



## CiderBear

@sumofruit thank you so much for sharing! Did you request the photos in your note or ask them to pick out a specific grind?


----------



## sumofruit

CiderBear said:


> @sumofruit thank you so much for sharing! Did you request the photos in your note or ask them to pick out a specific grind?



@CiderBear I just asked them (when ordering) to pick out two nice knives for me, that were on the straighter side, then called them to follow up on the sayas. They then asked me what I preferred in the way of grind and thickness; and offered to send me photos. Ironically, the profile reminds me a bit of the JNS new profile - more curved than I would have liked. But who knows from the photos (?).

BTW, they said that just a few kasumi 240s had been sold to date, while the nashiji 240s were quickly wiped out. They seemed puzzled by all this. I attributed it to the KKF / @labor of love / @ashy2classy effect. 

It looks like they currently have just one nashiji 210 left. @DisconnectedAG and anyone else hoping to get the nashiji 240 -- they said more nashiji 240s might be coming in over the next few weeks, but no guarantees!

(edited to add footnote)


----------



## dsk

sumofruit said:


> @CiderBear I just asked them (when ordering) to pick out two nice knives for me, that were on the straighter side, then called them to follow up on the sayas. They then asked me what I preferred in the way of grind and thickness; and offered to send me photos. Ironically, the profile reminds me a bit of the JNS new profiles - more curved than I would have liked. But who knows from the photos (?).
> 
> BTW, they said that just a few kasumi 240s had been sold to date, while the nashiji 240s were quickly wiped out. They seemed puzzled by all this. I attributed it to the KKF / @labor of love / @ashy2classy effect.
> 
> It looks like they currently have just one nashiji 210. @DisconnectedAG and anyone else hoping to get the nashiji 240 -- they said more nashiji 240s might be coming in over the next few weeks, but no guarantees!
> 
> (edited to add footnote)


KU being cheaper, and frankly looking pretty amazing even if they perform similarly.


----------



## sumofruit

dsk said:


> KU being cheaper, and frankly looking pretty amazing even if they perform similarly.



@dsk I was going to ask that (being a newb). Does the nashiji generally perform similarly to the kasumi, and is it largely just an aesthetic thing then? I know the KU might help with corrosion, and the nashiji is generally thicker/heavier, but that might seem to affect usability more than performance.


----------



## sumofruit

[delete double post]


----------



## labor of love

Mazaki sell themselves. There has been a KU nashiji finish drought for sometime, I brought attention to the restock but they were going to sell quick anyway.


----------



## DitmasPork

labor of love said:


> Mazaki sell themselves. There has been a KU nashiji finish drought for sometime, I brought attention to the restock but they were going to sell quick anyway.



Been looking at the Maz Nash ever since they came out, but thing that's held me back from buying one is that they're too common. I do like Maz, were me go-to for a long time—currently have 3 of them—but feel he produces too many blades, and at too low a price-point for me to have an interest. #rarity. Probably why knives like Kato, Shig and Jiro have captured my imagination—despite the fact that my credit card would hate me were I to get one.


----------



## CiderBear

@sumofruit really appreciate you sharing your experiences with them. I need to stop buying knives for a couple weeks. I hope they last until I can buy another knife lol.

Let me know how much they weight when you get yours. And I think they have a pretty decent flat spot, not like the yucky final JNS profile (which gives me goosebumps whenever I see it)


----------



## inferno

HRC_64 said:


> Pretty sure 1990s Civic would survive the apocalypse



obviously!


----------



## inferno

DitmasPork said:


> Been looking at the Maz Nash ever since they came out, but thing that's held me back from buying one is that they're too common. I do like Maz, were me go-to for a long time—currently have 3 of them—but feel he produces too many blades, and at too low a price-point for me to have an interest. #rarity. Probably why knives like Kato, Shig and Jiro have captured my imagination—despite the fact that my credit card would hate me were I to get one.



are you saying the flipping potential is too low with them?


----------



## sumofruit

labor of love said:


> Mazaki sell themselves. There has been a KU nashiji finish drought for sometime, I brought attention to the restock but they were going to sell quick anyway.



I think you underestimate your credibility and influence capital! That's been clear to me just perusing this thread.


----------



## sumofruit

CiderBear said:


> @sumofruit really appreciate you sharing your experiences with them. I need to stop buying knives for a couple weeks. I hope they last until I can buy another knife lol.
> 
> Let me know how much they weight when you get yours. And I think they have a pretty decent flat spot, not like the yucky final JNS profile (which gives me goosebumps whenever I see it)



Definitely - though I'm not sure my scale can weigh at the precision needed. Will do what I can.


----------



## labor of love

sumofruit said:


> I think you underestimate your credibility and influence capital! That's been clear to me just perusing this thread.


Oh. Well thank you. I haven’t said anything that hasn’t already been echoed by so many folks on this thread before me though. 
I genuinely think the newest batch is nice.
Really want a 270mm gyuto from mazaki. The 260mm gram 240mm just feels to wimpy for me


----------



## DitmasPork

inferno said:


> are you saying the flipping potential is too low with them?



Nah, no interest in flipping knives, I just want knives I deem special in my collection.


----------



## Carl Kotte

DitmasPork said:


> Nah, no interest in flipping knives, I just want knives I deem special in my collection.



I understand what you mean: limiting one’s keepers to the knives one deems special. But it appears that we employ different criteria in finding the special ones. For me it is all a personal relationship with the tool. How it feels, what modifications I’ve done to it, what we’ve been through etc. Whether a knife is mass produced or very rare just doesn’t enter into the equation of specialness for me personally. If anything, rarity, high price and universal praise deter me from finding something very special or interesting, but I think that is just an idiosyncratic psychological quirk of mine.


----------



## DitmasPork

Carl Kotte said:


> I understand what you mean: limiting one’s keepers to the knives one deems special. But it appears that we employ different criteria in finding the special ones. For me it is all a personal relationship with the tool. How it feels, what modifications I’ve done to it, what we’ve been through etc. Whether a knife is mass produced or very rare just doesn’t enter into the equation of specialness for me personally. If anything, rarity, high price and universal praise deter me from finding something very special or interesting, but I think that is just an idiosyncratic psychological quirk of mine.



I agree with you about having a personal bond with knives, which I have with those I've kept.

Regarding Maz Nash, I do like them, borrowed a Nash for a couple of months. Gorgeous finish and great cutter IMO. I currently own 3 Mazs that I love.

However, for my humble collection, I don't have a need for another Mazaki. Don't want another cheap, buzzy, common knife that a lot of people have—i.e. Maz Nash. Would rather save up for something more uncommon, unique. 

I have all the kitchen knives I need on a practical level—now I'm trying to acquire things I "want."


----------



## sumofruit

DitmasPork said:


> However, for my humble collection, I don't have a need for another Mazaki. Don't want another cheap, buzzy, common knife that a lot of people have—i.e. Maz Nash. Would rather save up for something more uncommon, unique.



Ouch.  I was getting so excited about my upcoming delivery of two shiny new Mazakis!


----------



## Carl Kotte

sumofruit said:


> Ouch.  I was getting so excited about my upcoming delivery of two shiny new Mazakis!



Haha, you should be excited! [emoji16]


----------



## Midsummer

Carl Kotte said:


> Haha, you should be excited! [emoji16]



Very excited. I have a 250mm gyuto and a 180 petty. Really can not buy better knives in my limited experience. More expensive yes, but better... Enjoy!


----------



## Barmoley

Midsummer said:


> Very excited. I have a 250mm gyuto and a 180 petty. Really can not buy better knives in my limited experience. More expensive yes, but better... Enjoy!


Let's not go overboard here. The knives are very good and priced right, meaning you are getting a lot for your money. You should be excited, just because someone doesn't want to buy their forth has no barring on the quality of these knives. To say you can't buy a better knife for any money is just wrong.


----------



## Midsummer

Barmoley said:


> To say you can't buy a better knife for any money is just wrong.



Well, like anything in life it depends on your parameters.


----------



## Barmoley

Whatever your parameters are, once you take price out of the equation there is a knife out there that is better than Mazaki. That is why you can never take price out, price is always part of. I agree with @panda on this. Good knives, good beaters, very good for the price, but the hype needs to stop. Not the end all be all of kitchen knives.


----------



## Midsummer

Barmoley said:


> Whatever your parameters are, once you take price out of the equation there is a knife out there that is better than Mazaki. That is why you can never take price out, price is always part of. I agree with @panda on this. Good knives, good beaters, very good for the price, but the hype needs to stop. Not the end all be all of kitchen knives.



I recognize that you are an experienced and savvy user of high end knives. My goodness you have been through bunch over the years and that is just from what I can ascertain on BST. One day I would like to sit down with you over a bottle of wine and find out what knives you have found to be "the end all and be all of kitchen knives" or those that even came close. Be well old man.


----------



## Barmoley

Midsummer said:


> I recognize that you are an experienced and savvy user of high end knives. My goodness you have been through bunch over the years and that is just from what I can ascertain on BST. One day I would like to sit down with you over a bottle of wine and find out what knives you have found to be "the end all and be all of kitchen knives" or those that even came close. Be well old man.


Fortunately, I haven’t found one, I hope I never will


----------



## sumofruit

@CiderBear , I just unpacked and weighed my two CKC gyutos.

The CKC kasumi 240mm weighs in at 260-61 grams, and it's blade heavy -- didn't have a ruler handy, but I eyeballed the balance point to be a good 1.75-2" into the blade, above the top of the handle. Not sure yet, but it might be heavier than ideal for me to use as my daily driver at home.

The CKC nashiji 210mm weighs in at 199-200 grams, and the balance point (again eyeballed, so no guarantees) appears to be about 1" above the top of the handle. It's much more manageable for me and I really love the profile.

Both blades are straighter than I expected, with the 210 a tad straighter than the kasumi I earlier got from Cleancut. The fit and finish on both are outstanding.

CKC was incredible to work with - they were super nice and accommodating. Not sure what they have left in stock, but as I mentioned up above, they'd told me that there was a good chance they'd have more 240mm nashijis coming in, just about now.

I've uploaded a few photos of the knives on the scale. Sorry I'm not able to take any beauty shots right now!


----------



## atb

the ckc kasumi 180 petty/suji for me is great. its pretty nimble, as my newly designated chive slicer. not quite as heavy feeling as i expected after using his gyutos. the distal taper on this one is really impressive as well, it real thin and razor ish at the tip. makes me rly wanna try his “full size” sujis out. also loving the profile, and keyaki octo handles dont hurt neither.


----------



## labor of love

atb said:


> the ckc kasumi 180 petty/suji for me is great. its pretty nimble, as my newly designated chive slicer. not quite as heavy feeling as i expected after using his gyutos. the distal taper on this one is really impressive as well, it real thin and razor ish at the tip. makes me rly wanna try his “full size” sujis out. also loving the profile, and keyaki octo handles dont hurt neither.


I had a shigehiro pegged as my next 180mm petty then the new mazakis came out...pretty tough choice for me.


----------



## atb

labor of love said:


> I had a shigehiro pegged as my next 180mm petty then the new mazakis came out...pretty tough choice for me.


yea idk im lovin these. may even double dip on this batch if funds allow. which i dont think they will but these are great, even with bump in price. they feel better in hand then any of his other stuff ive tried. however i did have to do a lil work to the edge to get it where i like but thats only more fun am i right


----------



## ethompson

Does anyone have the CKC 270 nashiji? Wondering just how beastly it is.


----------



## CiderBear

@ashy2classy might?


----------



## ashy2classy

ethompson said:


> Does anyone have the CKC 270 nashiji? Wondering just how beastly it is.


Just got one this week. It's not too bad, but I like 'em thicc.  Mine weighs in at 293g and is about 275mm on the edge. Great cutters overall. I thought it would be too heavy for me but I'm not feeling that now that I have the knife.


----------



## ashy2classy

labor of love said:


> I had a shigehiro pegged as my next 180mm petty then the new mazakis came out...pretty tough choice for me.


I got the nashiji and it's crazy good. Stiff spine but super thin behind the edge. Stupid sharp.


----------



## labor of love

ashy2classy said:


> I got the nashiji and it's crazy good. Stiff spine but super thin behind the edge. Stupid sharp.


I’ll probably just get them both tbh. Shigehiro cannot be denied.


----------



## CiderBear

Nakiri bug bit me again. 

Does anyone here have a Maz nakiri? How do they cut?


----------



## rob

I have a Mazaki Nakiri, like all of his stuff she's pretty thick out of the handle with a nice taper, and thin behind the edge. 

Heavier than my other Nakiri's put feels powerful and falls through food.


----------



## rob

Maz family.


----------



## labor of love

Has the blue 2 mazaki been brought to everybody’s attention yet?

http://www.knivesandstones.com/blog-reader-special-mystery-hon-sanmai-blue-2-gyuto-240mm/


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> Has the blue 2 mazaki been brought to everybody’s attention yet?
> 
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/blog-reader-special-mystery-hon-sanmai-blue-2-gyuto-240mm/



Yes!


----------



## CiderBear

@rob thank you. Do you get any wedging going through gigantic carrots at all?

@labor of love ya it came up shortly before we started talking about the CKC batch. @preizzo has it.


----------



## AT5760

@CiderBear, it’s a different batch, but I just picked up the 180 KU nakiri that was on BST. My impressions are very similar to Rob’s. Surprisingly hefty and thick at the handle. Plenty of distal taper and pretty thin behind the edge. It’s only seen onions and sweet potatoes so far, but it went through both cleanly. It feels like it would be a great knife to prep a batch of roasted root vegetables.


----------



## rob

CiderBear said:


> @rob thank you. Do you get any wedging going through gigantic carrots at all?
> 
> @labor of love ya it came up shortly before we started talking about the CKC batch. @preizzo has it.



Hi mate,

No wedging through carrots.


----------



## preizzo

CiderBear said:


> @rob thank you. Do you get any wedging going through gigantic carrots at all?
> 
> @labor of love ya it came up shortly before we started talking about the CKC batch. @preizzo has it.




Yes baby .
Maziking has them all


----------



## IsoJ

I thought I put few photos a 240ku from carbonknife, got this one about a month ago. Fantastic cutting stuff...

248*54,3
258gr
Spine at the handle 6,37
-*- at the heel 5,85
-*- at the middle 2,78
-*- 10mm from the tip, I am not that good measuring. Around 0,85-1,05
Balance point just sweet with this weight.

There is early christmas for me, still two 240 gyuto waiting for test .


----------



## Jville

labor of love said:


> Has the blue 2 mazaki been brought to everybody’s attention yet?
> 
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/blog-reader-special-mystery-hon-sanmai-blue-2-gyuto-240mm/



Seen it, after it had sold. It would be a must have for me, when he puts out more (as long as they are on point).


----------



## labor of love

Jville said:


> Seen it, after it had sold. It would be a must have for me, when he puts out more (as long as they are on point).


He’s only getting better.


----------



## daveb

That choil shot......

Yes.


----------



## IsoJ

240 kasumi finish from K&S about a month ago. 

246*53,4
279gr
Spine at the handle 6,1
-*- at the heel 5,4
-*- at the middle 2,8
-*- 10mm from tip 0,8-1
20g Heavier than the carbonknife KU version but doesn't feel so, maybe because the ebony handle is heavier? and the balance point is slighty towards the pinchgrip and handle. Ootb edge slighty behind the ckc, but still a performer. Few pictures after family meal prep, quite reactive.


----------



## CiderBear

Thank you for all the data points @IsoJ


----------



## IsoJ

CiderBear said:


> Thank you for all the data points @IsoJ



No proplems. I thought if somebody gets these any useful that is good. Offcourse they varies from batch to batch and knive to knife...


----------



## Kristoffer

Argh! I have fallen to doubt and questioning... 

Not wanting to not miss out on the next batch of Mazakis that Cleancut should be getting sometime in the not too distant future, I’d decided on clicking home a 240-250 mm Kasumi as soon as they restock. Now I’m starting to hesitate though, should I get a KU finish version instead (provided they get any)...

The dimensions on the KU version seem so tempting. Slightly heavier and close to 10 mm’s of steel coming out of the handle. Up there with the big names! On the other hand, the patina potential of the reactive Kasumi finish; yummy! What to do, what to do...

So, and I know this is a strange concept to most, which one would you get if you could only get (-away with) one (for your smart, lovely, better half)?


----------



## IsoJ

If I could only choose one(which I am actually trying to figure out myself what to keep) I would choose the one with best profile that I like, next the balance/weight and feel in hand and the last the looks. Just my two cents.


----------



## labor of love

Kristoffer Tyvik said:


> Argh! I have fallen to doubt and questioning...
> 
> Not wanting to not miss out on the next batch of Mazakis that Cleancut should be getting sometime in the not too distant future, I’d decided on clicking home a 240-250 mm Kasumi as soon as they restock. Now I’m starting to hesitate though, should I get a KU finish version instead (provided they get any)...
> 
> The dimensions on the KU version seem so tempting. Slightly heavier and close to 10 mm’s of steel coming out of the handle. Up there with the big names! On the other hand, the patina potential of the reactive Kasumi finish; yummy! What to do, what to do...
> 
> So, and I know this is a strange concept to most, which one would you get if you could only get (-away with) one (for your smart, lovely, better half)?


I loved the Maz KU 240mm I got from Carbon, but ultimately I felt like the 5.75 spine above the heel was just an overkill. I plan on getting a Kasumi version which looks to be a tad thinner on the spine coming out of the handle and over the heel.


----------



## labor of love

ashy2classy said:


> I got the nashiji and it's crazy good. Stiff spine but super thin behind the edge. Stupid sharp.


Shigehiro 180mm petty arrived yesterday. Still plan on grabbing a Maz soon, but I had to act quick on the shigehiro it was the last one in stock.
Overall very happy with my purchase. Can’t go wrong with shigehiro.


----------



## ashy2classy

labor of love said:


> I loved the Maz KU 240mm I got from Carbon, but ultimately I felt like the 5.75 spine above the heel was just an overkill. I plan on getting a Kasumi version which looks to be a tad thinner on the spine coming out of the handle and over the heel.


That's one of the best parts!


----------



## labor of love

ashy2classy said:


> That's one of the best parts!


You’re right. I’m just being picky. I think the Kasumi versions are a tad thinner


----------



## MrHiggins

I prefer the kasumi versions I've owned. (Those KU 210s from knifeware a few months ago sure looked good, though!) I'd go for kasumi when the time comes around.


----------



## IsoJ

I have the KU from carbon, I like it a lot. I ordered a kasumi one too and ask them to pick a heavier one from the stock. I like the kasumi finish a bit more with this one and if the spine thickness is the same as KU then I have a winner for me . 

Out of the topic, I realised I don't like ebony handles that much anymore. I feel that the K&S Mazaki would feel better in my hand with a little lighter and grippier handle.


----------



## CiderBear

How does the keyaki handle from CKC feel? I believe my 210mm from KW has a cherry handle - or KW lists it as cherry anyway. The grain looks quite similar, albeit lighter, to my keyaki handle from Watanabe, but the feel is different. The Wat handle feels more.. open-pore, soft and looks matte (kind of like ho wood), whereas the Mazaki handle is harder and the wood feels sealed. I'm wondering if it's really cherry after all, or just keyaki finished differently.

Anyone has any idea? How does your CKC keyaki handle feel?


----------



## labor of love

The keyaki handle maz from Carbon isn’t as nicely finished as the ones from Watanabe IMO. Still pretty nice though. And much cheaper.


----------



## CiderBear

labor of love said:


> The keyaki handle maz from Carbon isn’t as nicely finished as the ones from Watanabe IMO. Still pretty nice though. And much cheaper.



Was it soft and matte? or did it feel more like a finish had been applied to it?


----------



## IsoJ

The ckc handle wood looks and feels it has been polished and no coting applied but I cant be 100% sure


----------



## Viggetorr

Looking at the photos on the last page it looks like the tips aren't as stupid thin anymore as they used to be. Is it just the perspective or has this changed? He does have a tendency to change, after all...


----------



## ma_sha1

I am new, only been on the forum for 2 days. After spending most of my time reading through this long ass thread, I pulled the trigger for a Knifewear Nashiji 210mm...


----------



## Chuckles

That’s a two day read for sure. Welcome.


----------



## ma_sha1

It didn’t take long for my knife to arrive from Knife wear, it’s still the older good design, not the new JNS pregnant big belly new design & the handle is simple but polished smooth. The Nashiji is actually KU Nashiji, rustic yet attractive looking.

It met my expectations of a “poor men’s work horse”. I got a beefy 210 that came in at 221mm heel to tip, strong dismal taper with beef out of the handle but very thin tip: 6mm/5mm/2.7mm/0.7mm. 50mm tall, Convex grind reminds me of Anryu but taller & heavier, wight in at 7.35 Oz/208 g. The fit & finish isn’t top notch but it was not expected, it feels hefty in the hand, with balance an inch ahead of handle right under pinch grip point, the heft is neutrally balanced & it demolished carrots with authority upon arrival.


----------



## F-Flash

Some nice ones up on knives & stones. But only few.


----------



## labor of love

F-Flash said:


> Some nice ones up on knives & stones. But only few.


I grabbed the 240. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Xenif

Damn you guys are fast, I went to make one bento and I already missed it, I hope one of u got that KU, looks dope


----------



## labor of love

50% chance mine will be catch and release. But it’s an old stock one that I haven’t tried yet, not like the newer ones so I wanted to check it out before they become hard to find.


----------



## F-Flash

I got the ku one, choil looks nice.


----------



## J.C

F-Flash said:


> I got the ku one, choil looks nice.



so lucky!
I missed it by seconds


----------



## Michi

J.C said:


> I missed it by seconds


Time for death threats via PM…


----------



## labor of love

F-Flash said:


> I got the ku one, choil looks nice.


Wow. It does look special.


----------



## Tanalasta

Think there was only one. Well done. What makes it more special than the other KNS mazaki?


----------



## labor of love

Tanalasta said:


> Think there was only one. Well done. What makes it more special than the other KNS mazaki?


 Choil shot is a masterpiece


----------



## ian

labor of love said:


> Choil shot is a masterpiece



http://www.knivesandstones.com/bfcm-special-mazaki-white-2-gyuto-240mm-kurouchi-nashiji-finish/

this one? What’s special to you? That it’s an elephant near the spine and real thin behind the edge? Other stuff?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Odd looking distal taper shot


----------



## Eloh

.... And a spine with no taper. 

Love the look of the knive and handle though


----------



## labor of love

Eloh said:


> .... And a spine with no taper.
> 
> Love the look of the knive and handle though


Not uncommon with KU knives. Some of my favorite knives have had very little distal taper on the spine.


----------



## labor of love

I bought a Kasumi finished mazaki from the KNS sale, @F-Flash if you’re not happy we can definitely swap


----------



## F-Flash

The distal taper shot does look like it doesn't have same handle. 

Or attleast the handle end looks very weird in that shot. I'll see when I get it.


----------



## Eloh

labor of love said:


> Not uncommon with KU knives. Some of my favorite knives have had very little distal taper on the spine.



True, same here, but this looks like it has kindof a thick tip. But thats's all speculation (on my part) without havin used it


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Not uncommon with KU knives. Some of my favorite knives have had very little distal taper on the spine.


Kato and Shig have distinct distal tapers on their Ku versions. From that pic the spine doesn't appear straight and the tip also looks odd. I doubt its the same knife.


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> Kato and Shig have distinct distal tapers on their Ku versions. From that pic the spine doesn't appear straight and the tip also looks odd. I doubt its the same knife.


It’s likely not a pic of the actual knife sold, notice the handle in the spine distal taper shot.
Of course it’s possible to have distal taper and KU, no one suggested otherwise.


----------



## Eloh

Looked at it again, that spine Pic is indeed from one of the Mr itou knives from the bf sale.


----------



## F-Flash

This is the real photo, I like it alot more.


----------



## Corradobrit1

MUCH better


----------



## HRC_64

Grind is interesting on this one...


----------



## CiderBear

@HRC_64 could you explain why? I can never seem to tell anything from a choil shot except perhaps how it looks behind the edge.


----------



## pkjames

sorry guys, my bad on the pics. I usually take a lot of photos together, and the itou was taken right after the mazaki, hence the mess up (on the argubly the more important one).


----------



## CiderBear

Just pulled out my 210mm Mazaki to cut some brussel sprouts. I haven't used the knife much since I got it last month - only sharpened it and I wasn't too happy with how it deburred.

Holy cow this thing is sharp sharp sharp.


----------



## CiderBear

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8u-BQWH44D/?igshid=1wzsb9edr3gp3


----------



## M1k3

In Blue?


----------



## ma_sha1

CiderBear said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/B8u-BQWH44D/?igshid=1wzsb9edr3gp3



Mazaki Dami, great find!
Can’t wait to see it showing on K&S website. I wonder if the grind will be more consistent on these.


----------



## CiderBear

Don't hold out hope because the Mazaking @preizzo will scoop it up


----------



## mattador

https://www.knivesandstones.com.au/...l/products/copy-of-mazaki-white-2-gyuto-240mm

Cool, but a lil too rich for my blood. Hope it isn't a one off though, would like to see a production maz in blue.


----------



## jacko9

mattador said:


> https://www.knivesandstones.com.au/...l/products/copy-of-mazaki-white-2-gyuto-240mm
> 
> Cool, but a lil too rich for my blood. Hope it isn't a one off though, would like to see a production maz in blue.



Too rich for my blood as well. I wonder how quick that will sell?


----------



## McMan

Mazaki really is Jiro! 
(Wait, or is it the other way around?)


----------



## Barmoley

I don't know $1.2k for a Mazaki.... One off I guess, so collectors might want it, but I just don't know...


----------



## panda

this is hilarious


----------



## madelinez

That handle is way too gaudy for me...


----------



## Gjackson98

The new dammy knife looks amazing. I would love to wait around for the price to calm down a bit. Looking forward to try it!


----------



## madelinez

Also for that price you can get a dammy catcheside. I know which one I would rather in that price bracket.


----------



## Geigs

Too steep for me. Looks nice tho.


----------



## Gjackson98

madelinez said:


> Also for that price you can get a dammy catcheside. I know which one I would rather in that price bracket.



I am excited to see Mazaki’s new improvements, just 1200 is a bit much of a jump from the old 200 to 300 dollars range. 
Since this is one of a kind/ first of all collector piece, I guess 1200 makes sense, but personally I will wait till Mazaki reach his peak first before consider collecting (another 20years?)


----------



## madelinez

I didn't intend to be critical of Mazaki knives, the standard ones are great value. But yeah that jump is a bit insane, most makers charge 1.5-2x for forge welded damascus, not 4-5x.


----------



## panda

that handle belongs in ugly knife thread


----------



## labor of love

That choil shot though.


----------



## panda

labor of love said:


> That choil shot though.


it appears to have a slight concave


----------



## ma_sha1

From Mazaki to Maumasi, from
hit-or-miss to masterpiece, a transformation by award wining director James Comeonmen.

In Theater now!


Seriously, I didn’t see the ending coming, what a twist.., Two thumbs up.


----------



## M1k3

Beautiful blade. I'd prefer the basic KnS handle over this one..

That handle is well done though. Just not my taste.


----------



## bahamaroot

Got better places to spend 1.2k


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Wow. 1.2K for a Mazaki and nearly 1k for new Suk zdp189 240 gyutos. Looks like I’ll be on the sidelines for 2020. Insane!


----------



## Midsummer

Isn't Maz still a apprentice of Kato or was that a year ago? We have elderly master smiths with Dami in 1/2 the range of this knife. He is inexperienced.

If you do buy it, I certainly hope you enjoy your purchase!


----------



## CiderBear

Ew that handle. Why ruin an otherwise perfectly good-lookimg knife with what looks like a pile of solid cat vomit on fire?


----------



## Johnny.B.Good

I don’t care for two-tone wood handles or end-caps, but the general idea is not altogether different from one of my favorite Marko handles of all time: https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/custom-order-progress-update.3552/page-2#post-68311


----------



## captaincaed

CiderBear said:


> @HRC_64 could you explain why? I can never seem to tell anything from a choil shot except perhaps how it looks behind the edge.


They mean very little, on average. The guys here have a data point to look at, and suddenly everything looks like a nail.


----------



## Xenif

I feel better that Im not the only person that disliked the handle ... But @CiderBear really hates it a lot more than me

What kills me more is the core looks like its extremely scratchy and the damascus dosen't really look too interesting to me either. Just dosen't look like a $1200 knife ...


----------



## CiderBear

@Xenif I've come to appreciate simpler, quartersawn handles (or ones that look quartersawn, with straight parallel grains). I'm not into anything exotic-looking. Either way, it's gone 

@preizzo @Eitan78 @Gregmega which one of ya'll got it?


----------



## ma_sha1

CiderBear said:


> Either way, it's gone



No way, did someone really fall for that?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Kinda reminds me of Gibson guitars 10 years ago. Dealers are the new flippers.


----------



## ma_sha1

Conspiracy theories withdrawn.


----------



## jacko9

Owing two Mazaki knives makes it difficult for me to think of his products in the higher price range like this latest example.


----------



## CiderBear

Unicorns. Normal Heiji knives are cheap, Heiji damascus aren't. The same principle applies to Mazaki, gaudy handle or not.


----------



## Elliot

Heiji Damascus is pornography that I am glad to pay a premium for. 
As a man with zero Maz gyuto's, I make no comment on that knife that hasn't already been made. I beg Heiji monthly for dammy.


----------



## Barmoley

ma_sha1 said:


> Appears to have taken a page from cheap handles to go’s playbook, where a colorful $20 Alibaba handle elevates a knife to “custom” status allowing additional $100 surcharge. Except, the price elevation here was much much higher with the intention to set a price reference point.
> 
> The web status of “sold out” regardless of being really sold or not, sets a high price reference point to establish Mazaki Dami’s premium status - marketing 101.
> 
> This allows future Mazaki Dami to be introduced at 2x regular price, i.e. the premium $5-600 range & still be perceived as “value”, because this is the ONLY price reference point available.
> 
> Prediction:
> 
> Regular version of Mazaki Dami will hit the market within 6 month at the $5-600 Toyama Dami. price point.


I wouldn't jump to these conclusions. James is a good guy. His heart handles are not cheap, regardless of what people think of this particular color, wood combination. The shape of these handles is very good and the wood used is of high quality. Since this was potentially one off, you don't know how much he had to pay to get it. Future prices might or might not go down in the future, probably will. It really is not cool to accuse people of wrong doing based on nothing at all and just conspiracy theories.


----------



## ian

Yea, seriously. James indicates on the site that he had to pay through the nose to get that one, and I have no reason to disbelieve him. I mean, Mazaki doesn’t even make damascus usually, right? So this isn’t like “can you make the tip slightly lower?”

Hate on the knife all you want (I certainly wouldn’t have bought it), but James thought it would be cool to ask Mazaki to make a knife like that, and made a bet that someone would want it even at an exorbitant price. More power to him for giving us something to look at and talk about.

See also like 30 million previous threads explaining how dealers are not flippers.


----------



## labor of love

No doubt that knife will be a collectors item, now and definitely 10 years from now.
Imagine owning the very first shig or kato dammy ever put on the market.


----------



## CiderBear

This was only the second blue 2 Mazaki gyuto that I recall, so add that to the unicorn status as well.

If I had the money, I would buy it and ship it to Jon for an iichi handle lol.


----------



## Eitan78

Xenif said:


> I feel better that Im not the only person that disliked the handle ... But @CiderBear really hates it a lot more than me
> 
> What kills me more is the core looks like its extremely scratchy and the damascus dosen't really look too interesting to me either. Just dosen't look like a $1200 knife ...


a nice polish session will fix that perhaps


----------



## ma_sha1

Barmoley said:


> I wouldn't jump to these conclusions.



Points well taken, I have withdrawn the conspiracy theories. Perhaps you could remove the quote too so it won’t lingering on?

I have bought from K&S before, & it was a nice experience.


----------



## ashy2classy

Barmoley said:


> I don't know $1.2k for a Mazaki.... One off I guess, so collectors might want it, but I just don't know...


It was $1200??????

That's half what I paid for these...
https://www.instagram.com/p/B8eS8pPHYdb/


----------



## Barmoley

ashy2classy said:


> It was $1200??????
> 
> That's half what I paid for these...
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B8eS8pPHYdb/



For all 4 or just one of them? No offence to Mazaki but I wouldn't compare his work to Evan's work, not in the same league, just my opinion ofcourse.


----------



## ashy2classy

Barmoley said:


> For all 4 or just one of them? No offence to Mazaki but I wouldn't compare his work to Evan's work, not in the same league, just my opinion ofcourse.


All 4...

Sorry for the OT post in the thread, BTW. I was just shocked at the price when I read it.


----------



## Barmoley

ashy2classy said:


> All 4...


Nice, beautiful blades.


----------



## labor of love

Ashy, you’re getting VIP prices lol


----------



## Barmoley

labor of love said:


> Ashy, you’re getting VIP prices lol


I was just going to say that too, my quotes from Evan are always higher and I've been on the list seemingly forever, I bet I was bumped off to make this set His work is top notch.


----------



## labor of love

Granted it does sound like he provided his own handles or handle materials.

Regardless, I shall order all future Antzenbergers through Ashy


----------



## ashy2classy

Barmoley said:


> I was just going to say that too, my quotes from Evan are always higher and I've been on the list seemingly forever, I bet I was bumped off to make this set His work is top notch.



OT: I specifically told him to make sure you were bumped so he could make mine. LOL!!!!


----------



## TSF415

labor of love said:


> Granted it does sound like he provided his own handles or handle materials.
> 
> Regardless, I shall order all future Antzenbergers through Ashy



I’m with labor. @ashy2classy you have been hired as my broker for such deals. I don’t pay well but have great benefits of endless pizza.


----------



## Gregmega

CiderBear said:


> Don't hold out hope because the Mazaking @preizzo will scoop it up



Nope, he didn’t [emoji4]


----------



## CiderBear

Gregmega said:


> Nope, he didn’t [emoji4]



*gasps*


----------



## panda

Elliot said:


> Heiji Damascus is pornography that I am glad to pay a premium for.
> As a man with zero Maz gyuto's, I make no comment on that knife that hasn't already been made. I beg Heiji monthly for dammy.


i'm still waiting for heiji honyaki..


----------



## Jville

Gregmega said:


> Nope, he didn’t [emoji4]



That's going to be a bad a$$ knife.


----------



## marc4pt0

A voice of the manority on this one. But I actually liked that handle. Stunning piece of wood in my opinion. I’m not a fan of the dual horn thing though, could do w/o the horn butt. But overall I thought that was a pretty impressive package. This from a guy who normally doesn’t love Damascus. Beautiful stuff, but just not very “practical” for daily kitchen use. I have a tendency to F it up


----------



## drsmp

Have to admit if that handle had black /mostly black horn and even better no end cap, I would have hit the BIN button.


----------



## Jville

drsmp said:


> Have to admit if that handle had black /mostly black horn and even better no end cap, I would have hit the BIN button.



I actually thought about this yesterday and almost posted, but I was too lazy. On some of these bold handles I think black horn ferrules go better than blonde horn. Personally, I generally like blonde horn, but it needs to be on simple color handles. The blonde sort of makes plainer or simpler handles a little more fun and kind of gives them a spark. But I think on many handles that has alot going on the blonde becomes dissonant or to busy. I totally agree I think black would of made it look better, classier.


----------



## Eitan78

drsmp said:


> Have to admit if that handle had black /mostly black horn and even better no end cap, I would have hit the BIN button.



I agree , an Ebony handle with horn ferrule can make a difference.

Also if that knife was 225mm ...


----------



## Barmoley

Simpler handles look better to me on dami blades, there is already a lot going on with the blade so no need for a handle to distract from that. These things are very personal though.


----------



## bkultra

@checeitan welcome to the forum


----------



## Eitan78

bkultra said:


> @checeitan welcome to the forum


LOL, not enough coffee in the system yet, misspelled my email


----------



## Gjackson98

marc4pt0 said:


> A voice of the manority on this one. But I actually liked that handle. Stunning piece of wood in my opinion. I’m not a fan of the dual horn thing though, could do w/o the horn butt. But overall I thought that was a pretty impressive package. This from a guy who normally doesn’t love Damascus. Beautiful stuff, but just not very “practical” for daily kitchen use. I have a tendency to F it up


I agree with you on the wood material, I personally do like the wood also. However to my own taste, I don't think this specific piece of wood is a good match with the Damascus steel. I personally find the wood burl pattern too busy that takes away the shine of the damascus. Secondly same as you have mentioned the dual horn thing. I think by assemble dual lighter color horns, it makes the handle look shorter and fatter.


----------



## Colonel Mustard

I'm pretty sure everyone saw this already but KnS has Mazaki Deba in Blue 2 in stock. Maybe we'll eventually see a Blue 2 gyuto (in more than one copy  )


----------



## M1k3

*Two copies


----------



## labor of love

I gotta say I love this photo MTC kitchen posted of Mazaki. What a pimp.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

labor of love said:


> I gotta say I love this photo MTC kitchen posted of Mazaki. What a pimp.View attachment 72727


Wondering if their going to bring in some maz in G3.


----------



## daveb

Robert Lavacca said:


> Wondering if their going to bring in some maz in G3.



He already has more flavors than Howard Johnson What's one more?


----------



## donegoofed

210mm.

Bought it at cleancut in Stockholm. I have read much about different profiles, versions etc. Does this look like a decent one? I like it so far.


----------



## Carl Kotte

labor of love said:


> I gotta say I love this photo MTC kitchen posted of Mazaki. What a pimp.View attachment 72727



Wow, is that him? Now I like his knives even more. And I have go get me some new clothes to match his style..


----------



## Carl Kotte

donegoofed said:


> 210mm.
> 
> Bought it at cleancut in Stockholm. I have read much about different profiles, versions etc. Does this look like a decent one? I like it so far.



I’d say it looks nice! Congrats!


----------



## CiderBear

donegoofed said:


> 210mm.
> 
> Bought it at cleancut in Stockholm. I have read much about different profiles, versions etc. Does this look like a decent one? I like it so far.



Oh wow that's a lot of shinogi


----------



## captaincaed

Mine looks similar, pardon the glare. I enjoy how it cuts.


----------



## Kristoffer

donegoofed said:


> 210mm.
> 
> Bought it at cleancut in Stockholm. I have read much about different profiles, versions etc. Does this look like a decent one? I like it so far.



Looks great! Seems a bit thinner behind the edge than my 240 from the same batch (which is a good thing if that is in fact the case). 

I made roasted root veggies today. That was not the perfect fit for Mr. Mazaki...


----------



## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> Wow, is that him? Now I like his knives even more. And I have go get me some new clothes to match his style..



Just in beige? Maybe with a splash of yellow?


----------



## TSF415

So I pulled out my mazaki today that I got from ckc. I used it for a bit when I first got it but then packed away. Decided to use it for a fairly heavy prep day. I noticed a few things. I like it more now than I did before. I noticed the handle is a bit off center which I don’t mind much. But then I checked out the grind. Does this look lefty to anyone else?


----------



## MowgFace

Looks Lefty to me.


----------



## M1k3

TSF415 said:


> View attachment 73015
> View attachment 73014
> View attachment 73013
> So I pulled out my mazaki today that I got from ckc. I used it for a bit when I first got it but then packed away. Decided to use it for a fairly heavy prep day. I noticed a few things. I like it more now than I did before. I noticed the handle is a bit off center which I don’t mind much. But then I checked out the grind. Does this look lefty to anyone else?View attachment 73012



Looks like @CiderBear bought it for you?


----------



## Xenif

Carl Kotte said:


> Wow, is that him? Now I like his knives even more. And I have go get me some new clothes to match his style..


Hes just hidding his true identity, but they way he wears the scarf is a dead give away


----------



## TSF415

M1k3 said:


> Looks like @CiderBear bought it for you?



Lol. Damn. Hey @labor of love, looking for a mazaki?


----------



## DitmasPork

TSF415 said:


> View attachment 73015
> View attachment 73014
> View attachment 73013
> So I pulled out my mazaki today that I got from ckc. I used it for a bit when I first got it but then packed away. Decided to use it for a fairly heavy prep day. I noticed a few things. I like it more now than I did before. I noticed the handle is a bit off center which I don’t mind much. But then I checked out the grind. Does this look lefty to anyone else?View attachment 73012



Looks perfect to me. [Lefty here!]


----------



## dsk

That looks too beautifully lefty to not be accidental.


----------



## bahamaroot

Mazaki has seemed to have the most consistency at Cleancut for whatever reason.

And that KU looks CRAZY lefty to me!


----------



## ma_sha1

I had one from knife wear looks just like that, lefty. Asymmetrical grind with left flat & right convex. I returned it for an exchange & the replacement looked normal. However, KW said it’s not lefty, & they don’t have lefty.


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> Just in beige? Maybe with a splash of yellow?



Yes exactly, just like mr pimpy Mazaki himself: bursting of colors inside, sporting only beige on the outside.


----------



## M1k3

He's wearing 3 colors, isn't that to much color for you?


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> He's wearing 3 colors, isn't that to much color for you?



Is he? [emoji19][emoji17][emoji21]


----------



## M1k3

Beige, white and yellow.


----------



## M1k3

Oh crap! I forgot about his BLUE jeans. 4 colors (or colours? )


----------



## Viggetorr

Deleted


----------



## Briochy

Colonel Mustard said:


> I'm pretty sure everyone saw this already but KnS has Mazaki Deba in Blue 2 in stock. Maybe we'll eventually see a Blue 2 gyuto (in more than one copy  )


There were two copies available, not one. So in total KnS has already sold 4 blue Mazaki.


----------



## F-Flash

Still 1 left at kns us site.


----------



## CiderBear

F-Flash said:


> Still 1 left at kns us site.



286g. That's a beeeffyyyy boi


----------



## labor of love

Every knife at KNS wears an ebony handle lol


----------



## F-Flash

labor of love said:


> Every knife at KNS wears an ebony handle lol



Is that good or bad thing?


----------



## labor of love

It’s a bad thing! Unless you like ebony.


----------



## Briochy

labor of love said:


> It’s a bad thing! Unless you like ebony.


I really don't get the hate for ebony. Like, it's a nice feeling handle, better than ho wood imo.


----------



## daveb

Ebony is nice if you want to look at it. When I'm ass deep in prep, not so much.


----------



## Barmoley

Briochy said:


> I really don't get the hate for ebony. Like, it's a nice feeling handle, better than ho wood imo.


It's heavy and slippery. Also partially explains why the knife is rather heavy.


----------



## Garner Harrison

How does Burnt Chestnut go for feel? Im thinking of rehandling my Mazaki with one cause I love the look


----------



## Eloh

It's lighter and has more textured surface, a good handlewood imo, i also like bog oak and walnut, since they're medium weight and have some texture too. Although i have not a problem with ebony either,


----------



## labor of love

Burnt Chestnut is the the best handle in the world.


----------



## labor of love

Yeah Bog Oak is really great too.


----------



## Barmoley

Burnt chestnut is excellent, might be my favorite. Especially when it has tighter grain.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Another vote for burnt chestnut. Hands down my fav.


----------



## DitmasPork

My current Maz family. 180 petty from JNS (circa 2019); 240 older profile gyuto from JNS (circa 2018); 115 newer profile gyuto from CleanCut (circa 2018).


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Yeah Bog Oak is really great too.


$2million Bentley Bacalar owners would agree. Its the connoisseurs choice.....


----------



## dafox

labor of love said:


> It’s a bad thing! Unless you like ebony.


I wish they offered their knives with other handle material options.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

I don’t hate the ebony handle but I don’t love it. I bought a mazaki a while back from yoshihiro with a beefy keyaki handle. I definitely like that one a lot. Burnt chestnut is also awesome. I think I would rather a mazaki in blue than white. I don’t mind white at all just prefer blue. Maybe i’ll sell the nashiji I have. I think I used it once.


----------



## bahamaroot

That Mazaki Blue is a little pricey...probably the Ebony handle.


----------



## jacko9

bahamaroot said:


> That Mazaki Blue is a little pricey...probably the Ebony handle.



Where is a Mazaki Blue available?


----------



## Briochy

jacko9 said:


> Where is a Mazaki Blue available?


Yesterday KnS US website had 1 available, now it's out of stock.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

jacko9 said:


> Where is a Mazaki Blue available?


Knives and stones US site
I thought it was pricey at first as well but if you think about it its not a ton more than say a 270 in white at carbon. Usually blue steel knives are more expensive than white as we all know. Could they be a little lower? Probably.


----------



## jacko9

Robert Lavacca said:


> Knives and stones US site
> I thought it was pricey at first as well but if you think about it its not a ton more than say a 270 in white at carbon. Usually blue steel knives are more expensive than white as we all know. Could they be a little lower? Probably.



In my limited experience I seem to be able to keep and edge on my B#2 knives better than my W steel knives.


----------



## labor of love

I can’t remember how much the augami maz 240mm was yesterday, $450 maybe? The wh2 from carbon is $313, so I’d take a chance on blue, if I was in the buying mood. But I’d prefer Keyaki handle.


----------



## Briochy

labor of love said:


> I can’t remember how much the augami maz 240mm was yesterday, $450 maybe? The wh2 from carbon is $313, so I’d take a chance on blue, if I was in the buying mood. But I’d prefer Keyaki handle.


It was $469


----------



## Robert Lavacca

labor of love said:


> I can’t remember how much the augami maz 240mm was yesterday, $450 maybe? The wh2 from carbon is $313, so I’d take a chance on blue, if I was in the buying mood. But I’d prefer Keyaki handle.


$470. A little high. I would take a chance myself. I used my white maz lightly so far but I really enjoy the grind and the profile. Everyone is different.


----------



## labor of love

YOLO.
I’d drop $470 easy. I’ve seen more photos of his dammy stuff, it really is quite nice.
I could understand why others wouldn’t want to though.


----------



## bahamaroot

When I can get his White for under $300, $470 is overpriced for Blue.


----------



## jacko9

Why did JNS drop Mazaki or was it the other way around?


----------



## ian

jacko9 said:


> Why did JNS drop Mazaki or was it the other way around?



Too many people were carrying Mazaki and Maxim wanted to focus on harder to find makers, iirc.


----------



## jacko9

ian said:


> Too many people were carrying Mazaki and Maxim wanted to focus on harder to find makers, iirc.



I bought two Mazaki knives from JNS and I was under the impression that Mazaki was a small time operation so he must be working like hell to be supplying that many retailers. So he is available at Carbon and K&S's - who else?


----------



## labor of love

jacko9 said:


> I bought two kazakh knives from JNS and I was under the impression that Mazaki was a small time operation so he must be working like hell to be supplying that many retailers. So he is available at Carbon and K&S's - who else?


Mazaki have been available at as many as 7 or so places at once. I think this gives the impression that he’s cranking out a crap ton of knives-but the stock does run out pretty quick too so maybe these are small batches. 
The “Mazaki makes all knives meme” is a joke as we keep thinking he’s cranking out so much stuff but who really knows for sure? Maybe his production is normal and his work has just been so heavily highlighted here it just appears that he makes more knives than he actually does.


----------



## labor of love

@jacko9 check cleancut if you’re looking to buy.


----------



## TSF415

Maybe overpriced but it’s going to lead to some deals on bst.


----------



## labor of love

TSF415 said:


> Maybe overpriced but it’s going to lead to some deals on bst.


I like where you’re head is at! Haha


----------



## Briochy

TSF415 said:


> Maybe overpriced but it’s going to lead to some deals on bst.


Ha! Not selling my dammy for sure, but might need to sell something else lol.


----------



## jacko9

labor of love said:


> @jacko9 check cleancut if you’re looking to buy.



I not in the market (yet) but when I do buy it will be a heavier 240mm Gyuto than what I already have. I want to get a Blue steel or perhaps a Ginrei 52100 from Jon at JKI. Right now my three 240mm Gyutos are two lasers; the Kono HD2 and the Kono Fuji B#2 and one of my first Jknives a T-F 240 Nashiji (which is a little rough around the edges).


----------



## MrHiggins

jacko9 said:


> I not in the market (yet) but when I do buy it will be a heavier 240mm Gyuto than what I already have. I want to get a Blue steel or perhaps a Ginrei 52100 from Jon at JKI. Right now my three 240mm Gyutos are two lasers; the Kono HD2 and the Kono Fuji B#2 and one of my first Jknives a T-F 240 Nashiji (which is a little rough around the edges).


If you're on the fence with Ginrei (aka Shihan) then you should pull the trigger. Great knives, great guy.


----------



## jacko9

MrHiggins said:


> If you're on the fence with Ginrei (aka Shihan) then you should pull the trigger. Great knives, great guy.



I'll start a new thread to discuss that knife and not side track the Mazaki discussion - thanks.


----------



## Briochy

MrHiggins said:


> If you're on the fence with Ginrei (aka Shihan) then you should pull the trigger. Great knives, great guy.


How good is the knife actually is though. I've heard people say the grind is medium thin, and from the look it's pretty generic. I have never actually touched one, but the impression I get is that it's a good, but not super special in any way. Lemme know if what I perceived is wrong tho.


----------



## TSF415

Briochy said:


> Ha! Not selling my dammy for sure, but might need to sell something else lol.


Yea atleast for now I have no plan on selling the mazaki blue. But there’s other knives i have that need to go. Not because they’re not good but I’m hoping this mazaki might be a go to and I like using all my knives. I’ve bought too many. If you’re not being used than you gotta go. 

Logic for getting it: word on the street is good mazakis are great and I was willing to pay the premium for the blue because it fits me better than white2. And maybe wishful thinking here but I figured being that he only produced a few units of these that a little more attention went into them then the batches of whites he pumps out. 

either way some shuffling will be done. Can’t know what fits me best until I try them all, right?!


----------



## labor of love

Briochy said:


> How good is the knife actually is though. I've heard people say the grind is medium thin, and from the look it's pretty generic. I have never actually touched one, but the impression I get is that it's a good, but not super special in any way. Lemme know if what I perceived is wrong tho.


Okay I’ll chime in real quick and leave it alone as to not get too off topic. Medium thin is a good descriptor. Of the 3 I’ve owned in 240mm-258mm they’ve been between 240-260grams.
As far as cutting goes-I dunno I like the geometry the grind seems to start pretty high or maybe is blended enough to where I can’t identify exactly where it begins. It lends itself to being a multitasker not being the thinnest edge or the best food releaser. Just feels solid on the board and in hand. I enjoy the steel quite a bit, and the overall aesthetics.
His work may not appeal as much on forums because were used to super thin geometry or crazy hard steel or whatever. But he does use traditional Japanese methods he learned to make his knives and from reading his website used a lot of American cooks/chefs feedback to help develop his lines(or atleast the early ones)
I can’t articulate why I enjoy his work other than they’re just really well made all arounders with strong aesthetics. Made by someone who understands design.


----------



## labor of love

TSF415 said:


> Yea atleast for now I have no plan on selling the mazaki blue. But there’s other knives i have that need to go. Not because they’re not good but I’m hoping this mazaki might be a go to and I like using all my knives. I’ve bought too many. If you’re not being used than you gotta go.
> 
> Logic for getting it: word on the street is good mazakis are great and I was willing to pay the premium for the blue because it fits me better than white2. And maybe wishful thinking here but I figured being that he only produced a few units of these that a little more attention went into them then the batches of whites he pumps out.
> 
> either way some shuffling will be done. Can’t know what fits me best until I try them all, right?!


How do you like Mazaki Blue steel?


----------



## TSF415

labor of love said:


> How do you like Mazaki Blue steel?


We’ll see when it gets here. Also have a Toyama coming.  

These two will have to battle it out for a spot. If I love them both maybe I can keep both but otherwise ones gotta go.


----------



## jacko9

TSF415 said:


> We’ll see when it gets here. Also have a Toyama coming.
> 
> These two will have to battle it out for a spot. If I love them both maybe I can keep both but otherwise ones gotta go.



That will be an interesting comparison, let us know what you think


----------



## labor of love

Well your Toyama will be arriving with a fresh 4K edge. Keep me in the loop!


----------



## jacko9

The two Mazaki's I bought were the 90mm stainless petty and a 180mm Gyuto I bought to get free shipping. I love the petty and the jury is still out on the gyuto.


----------



## Briochy

labor of love said:


> How do you like Mazaki Blue steel?


So far it has been good for me. Doesn't microchip too much even though I do rock it on the board, easily refreshed on King 6000 to a pretty sharp edge after a bit of use.


----------



## daveb

jacko9 said:


> ....I'll start a new thread to discuss that knife and not side track the Mazaki discussion - thanks.



Would hate for the discussion to get sidetracked. Thanks.


----------



## MrHiggins

Briochy said:


> How good is the knife actually is though. I've heard people say the grind is medium thin, and from the look it's pretty generic. I have never actually touched one, but the impression I get is that it's a good, but not super special in any way. Lemme know if what I perceived is wrong tho.


To each their own, I guess.


----------



## labor of love

MrHiggins said:


> To each their own, I guess. View attachment 73141


----------



## MrHiggins

Lest we derail the thread, here's a choil of my mazaki. (I've owned about 7 mazakis and really liked most of them, but this is the one I decided to keep). (it's from JNS, circa Dec. 2017).


----------



## McMan

There were some wider/broader more triangle-y than the one Labor posted. Those beefy Maz were the ones that intrigued me.


----------



## Colonel Mustard

So, who now has both white and blue Mazakis so that we can get a comparative review.


----------



## TSF415

Colonel Mustard said:


> So, who now has both white and blue Mazakis so that we can get a comparative review.


I will soon. And even better, ones a lefty and ones (hopefully) a righty so I’ll be able to test both at the same time.


----------



## Corradobrit1

TSF415 said:


> I will soon. And even better, ones a lefty and ones (hopefully) a righty so I’ll be able to test both at the same time.


Ambidextrous? Baller


----------



## lemeneid

Briochy said:


> Ha! Not selling my dammy for sure, but might need to sell something else lol.


I’ll buy your kidney or liver if you need to buy more knives!


----------



## Briochy

Colonel Mustard said:


> So, who now has both white and blue Mazakis so that we can get a comparative review.


I have white Nashiji and blue dammy lol


----------



## erbw02

I got the blue and nashiji from K&S today. I have an old JNS white from a couple of years back and a suji that I got from @preizzo (I think it is from cleancut...?)

I haven't tried it yet but took some quick pictures. The f&f is on a completely different level compared to the older stuff and the spine of the blue one is MASSIVE (!), see for example comparison to JNS Kato 250.

(unsure if the picture sharing works... Edit: no it didn't... sry... newbie. Edit 2: just post the links instead, hope it works)

Mazaki Family
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jtdmdsfEECio-6wJYqUocgqQaGQTXpQC

Spine: Blue vs old jns Mazi (both 240)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A3oDj_kgJchokfGgaOOw4i8UYbpaQ86V

Spine: Blue vs jns Kato
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_wNDLYdSyG6oPxD9FgM8ILrNKErEN0IS


----------



## Briochy

erbw02 said:


> I got the blue and nashiji from K&S today. I have an old JNS white from a couple of years back and a suji that I got from @preizzo (I think it is from cleancut...?)
> 
> I haven't tried it yet but took some quick pictures. The f&f is on a completely different level compared to the older stuff and the spine of the blue one is MASSIVE (!), see for example comparison to JNS Kato 250.
> 
> (unsure if the picture sharing works... Edit: no it didn't... sry... newbie)


Pic doesn't work. And yes, my spine is huge too. Almost in the area of Mioroshi Deba...


----------



## erbw02

Briochy said:


> Pic doesn't work.



Does it work now?


----------



## MowgFace

Worked fine for me. Looks great man! Nice kit.


----------



## bahamaroot

Is it me or is the Kato training starting to bubble up to the surface in Mazaki's work...


----------



## Corradobrit1

bahamaroot said:


> Is it me or is the Kato training starting to bubble up to the surface in Mazaki's work...


Yes, that thought has crossed my mind too. Don't fix what's not broken......


----------



## Malcolm Johnson

I just got the K&S Mazaki Nashiji 240mm gyuto and I’m very impressed. Great sweet spot, thin tip, and love the rustic finish on the Nashiji version. That thick spine makes a pinch grip super comfy. I will say I’ll probably get a different handle for it as ebony isn’t my favorite. Especially with a blade finish like this one.


----------



## Garner Harrison

I find my Mazaki too thick from about two 3rds of the way down from the tip for me personally. Ive only used Shigeki Tanaka knives before so maybe I've just grown use to really thin knives


----------



## Matt Jacobs

Just picked up a white the other day 240mm.


----------



## Gregmega




----------



## Corradobrit1

Gregmega said:


> View attachment 73297
> View attachment 73298


Mazaki. Called it. Who did the conversion to Yo?


----------



## Gregmega

Corradobrit1 said:


> Mazaki. Called it. Who did the conversion to Yo?



Eytan at knifehouse pdx, it was a prototype from one of the craftsman in Japan he works with.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Nice score. Blue or white core?


----------



## Gregmega

White. I’m still gonna be chasing that blue for a while I think.


----------



## Newbflat

Garner Harrison said:


> I find my Mazaki too thick from about two 3rds of the way down from the tip for me personally. Ive only used Shigeki Tanaka knives before so maybe I've just grown use to really thin knives



I like both, I have been using my Hiroshiro for years and it’s a laser. Maybe the finest tip on a 240 I have ever seen. I love using it as it’s to light and nimble. Falls threw food so easily and shaves like no ones business. But I had a hankering for something heavier and picked up a Mazaki KU 240.... I’m loving it. The weight also helps the knife move threw some foods better and there is a different type of control when your muscles have something to work against. I really like both, I grab each for different tasks. I was thinking yesterday it’s like beans.... I cook pintos for a month and decide to switch to black beans for a change. When I eat them I think, damn these are good. Then after a month I switch back to pintos and think ... damn these are good.. Variety is the spice of life!


----------



## Robert Lavacca

That western looks awesome! 
I caved and ended up with a blue 240 from K&S. I try to just keep it simple and follow profiles I know I will enjoy and will use at work. These blue 240s are on a whole other level that james had. I thought about it for a day or so.. finally said screw it why not.. i’m glad I did.


----------



## Gregmega

Robert Lavacca said:


> That western looks awesome!
> I caved and ended up with a blue 240 from K&S. I try to just keep it simple and follow profiles I know I will enjoy and will use at work. These blue 240s are on a whole other level that james had. I thought about it for a day or so.. finally said screw it why not.. i’m glad I did.



I would have popped as well, but 240 is just too big for me. Wish I had the heads up on that dammy blue 225.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

If i see anything pop up, i’ll let you know. I’m usually not a dammy fan but that thing was nice.


----------



## Gregmega

For my money, the Maz 220-225 is one of the best knives and profiles out there. Super pumped for this western to get here. And it came with a kiri box?!!? Total win.


----------



## TSF415

Alright. My Mazaki blue arrived and although I haven't got a chance to use it, there are a few initial impressions I have of it. Rationalization for getting it was hopefully better edge retention blue vs white (which I'll probably never be able to tell you about because I actually don't know **** about knives or will be able to notice) and also being that there's so few of them possibly a little more care was taken in producing them. 

It's a heavy mofo. Spine is thicky thick but only slightly larger than my white2 from ckc. The finish is pretty refined which is kinda weird to me and its probably just because of what my preconceived notions of what a Mazaki is. There is zero rustic aspect of a knife with this one. The spine is so perfectly rounded and polished that its dethroning my HVB as having the best spine around. There was even effort put into rounding the choil. Of the knives I own its on par with Western makers. The "Kasumi" on it is stupid. I don't know if there's other knives like this where it comes so high up but it just looks stupid. Its like its wearing a baggy shirt to hide its beer belly. 

The grind is very different from the white2 I have. No where near as thin towards the edge. The thing is crazy covexed as where my white 2 is more wide bevelish. Less lefty  but towards the heel on the right side it is ever so slightly flat and on the left side its convex. What I don't know if its a good thing or bad thing is that the most extreme of the convex is towards the tip. Its got a big ole mid section. 

Anyways for now here's my crappy photos.


----------



## TSF415




----------



## Viggetorr

Interesting, thanks for sharing! Almost looks a little Kagekiyo-ish there on the first photo, finish wise.


----------



## TSF415

Viggetorr said:


> Interesting, thanks for sharing! Almost looks a little Kagekiyo-ish there on the first photo, finish wise.


That was my exact thought when I picked it up out the box but Ive never seen a kagekiyo in person so I didn't want to make that comparison.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

Couldn’t believe how rounded the spine and choil were with mine lol. So far I haven’t put it to
work yet but just from checking it out when I received it so far so good. Grind is definitely different but for some reason I’m attracted to it. We’ll see how she cuts soon. Impulse buy for me. I’m a blue over white kind of guy. I dig mazaki so I went for it. Fingers crossed.


----------



## bahamaroot

The spines and choils on my whites are both very nicely rounded and polished. I think you're seeing a bigger difference because of comparing with the KU Nashiji version than with the standard White Migaki version.


----------



## Gregmega

You guys should just send one to me for screening to be sure that it’s gonna work out.


----------



## Viggetorr

TSF415 said:


> That was my exact thought when I picked it up out the box but Ive never seen a kagekiyo in person so I didn't want to make that comparison.



Haha, that is odd!

Regarding the spine my migaki (white) also is very nicely rounded. People tend to throw around the opinion that Mazakis are unrefined. I actually think that only applies to the area below the shinogi line - the rest is really visually appealing to me.


----------



## kidsos

] Took the M train to Mazaki town ;-)
Cleancut 245mm version


----------



## CiderBear

kidsos said:


> ] Took the M train to Mazaki town ;-)
> Cleancut 245mm version View attachment 73892
> View attachment 73894
> View attachment 73899



SHI-NO-GIIII


----------



## bahamaroot

The Cleancut examples seem to have been the most consistent and better finished of the few dealers I've sampled.


----------



## CiderBear

bahamaroot said:


> The Cleancut examples seem to have been the most consistanand better finished of the few dealers I've sampled.



Tbh I think Yoshihiro and Knifewear (both KUs) have been consistent as well. It's really just JNS's final batch with the cutlass (barf) profile that gives Mazaki a bad name


----------



## TSF415

CiderBear said:


> SHI-NO-GIIII


It would be such a sexier knife if the faux shinogi was a little more realistic.


----------



## IsoJ

Is there a difference in Migaki and Kasumi or is it the same thing just called different? For my eyes CKC kasumi and Cleancut Migaki finish looks just the same... And yes, the kasumi finish could be different IMO.


----------



## labor of love

Do newer cleancuts resemble older cleancuts? Seems to me the cleancut ones were a tad flatter and pointier up until recently, they might resemble carbon Knife company version now.


----------



## daddy yo yo

No Mazaki resembles any other Mazaki. It’s not a big, it’s a feature!


----------



## jimmy_d

CiderBear said:


> Tbh I think Yoshihiro and Knifewear (both KUs) have been consistent as well. It's really just JNS's final batch with the cutlass (barf) profile that gives Mazaki a bad name


Do you have a Yoshihiro Mazaki? Curious on the specs/measurements. I feel as though you don't see as many as you do from other vendors.


----------



## CiderBear

jimmy_d said:


> Do you have a Yoshihiro Mazaki? Curious on the specs/measurements. I feel as though you don't see as many as you do from other vendors.



I don't but @Briochy does


----------



## daveb

1,400 posts. Almost as many posts as knives he made this year.


----------



## Gregmega

1401


----------



## CiderBear

Gregmega said:


> 1401
> View attachment 73981



That looks like a jiro profile


----------



## Barmoley

Given that both Jiro and mazaki drift all over the place they bound to intersect sometime....unless mazaki is Jiro


----------



## Gregmega

CiderBear said:


> That looks like a jiro profile



Maz is the originator of wandering profile. But this one is first gen soooooo......


----------



## Koakuma

Just got my Mazaki yanagiba 300mm in Blue2. 
https://imgur.com/a/2M4aCPD
It weights 275g, thickness on the spine from the handle is 5.3 it does not taper as much like the gyuto. It’s pretty sharp ootb but I bet it can be sharper after a bit of touch up.


----------



## Briochy

jimmy_d said:


> Do you have a Yoshihiro Mazaki? Curious on the specs/measurements. I feel as though you don't see as many as you do from other vendors.


Measurements are pretty similar to CKC that other members have. Mine came with a rather flat grind so food sticks quite a bit. It's pretty thin behind the edge, but can be thinner.


----------



## IsoJ

.


----------



## labor of love

IsoJ said:


> .


I want to see that video


----------



## IsoJ

Trying to put it here put says file too big...


----------



## labor of love

IsoJ said:


> Trying to put it here put says file too big...


It does that to me every now and again, just keep trying.


----------



## IsoJ

labor of love said:


> It does that to me every now and again, just keep trying.



I kind of suck with these things. I could put it only to insta igtv... I have one with 3,1gb and one with 12mb, it says too big file for both...

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B9uf4JDnRQx/?igshid=xsoayai8ij0p


----------



## IsoJ

IsoJ said:


> I kind of suck with these things. I could put it only to insta igtv...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/tv/B9uf4JDnRQx/?igshid=xsoayai8ij0p



I deleted the previous post, long story short, wedging differences with 3 Mazakis from CKC, all bought in last 9 months.


----------



## jacko9

IsoJ said:


> I kind of suck with these things. I could put it only to insta igtv... I have one with 3,1gb and one with 12mb, it says too big file for both...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/tv/B9uf4JDnRQx/?igshid=xsoayai8ij0p


Are these all the same steel? White or Blue or mixed?


----------



## IsoJ

jacko9 said:


> Are these all the same steel? White or Blue or mixed?


All three are white 2.


----------



## jacko9

IsoJ said:


> All three are white 2.



Thanks the first one seemed to wedge just a bit but, the other two cut pretty nicely.


----------



## IsoJ

jacko9 said:


> Thanks the first one seemed to wedge just a bit but, the other two cut pretty nicely.


Yes, the Kasumi wedges a bit more. I tried to keep lateral movement to minimum(no problem with my cutting technique )


----------



## McMan

Barmoley said:


> ....unless mazaki is Jiro


He is. He is also Banksy.


----------



## labor of love

While everyone keeps wondering which knives Mazaki makes these days (the correct answer is all of them)...I’m wondering who did Mazaki outsource his own line to?


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> While everyone keeps wondering which knives Mazaki makes these days (the correct answer is all of them)...I’m wondering who did Mazaki outsource his own line to?



Flying monkeys?


----------



## Barmoley

labor of love said:


> While everyone keeps wondering which knives Mazaki makes these days (the correct answer is all of them)...I’m wondering who did Mazaki outsource his own line to?


Jiro?


----------



## TSF415

M1k3 said:


> Flying monkeys?


Did you see the video of the monkeys take over a town in Thailand because there were no tourists there to feed them? That s**t is cray.


----------



## labor of love

Monkeys are aholes


----------



## captaincaed

Lived in Thailand. Can confirm.


----------



## soigne_west

So of the available 240’s right now. Who does everyone think I should buy from? CC, yoshi or k&s?

edit: this will be my first maz


----------



## labor of love

soigne_west said:


> So of the available 240’s right now. Who does everyone think I should buy from? CC, yoshi or k&s?
> 
> edit: this will be my first maz


I’ve used OG cleancuts that are all the rave and I prefer the new CKC Mazakis, I’m assuming the Yoshihiro ones are similar so that’s what I would go with.
But everyone is different...the cleancuts might be lighter.


----------



## lemeneid

daveb said:


> 1,400 posts. Almost as many posts as knives he made this year.


Not this month???


----------



## labor of love

soigne_west said:


> So of the available 240’s right now. Who does everyone think I should buy from? CC, yoshi or k&s?
> 
> edit: this will be my first maz


Yeah, someone just posted a bnib maz from cleancut in show your newest knife buy....I definitely prefer carbons.


----------



## soigne_west

labor of love said:


> Yeah, someone just posted a bnib maz from cleancut in show your newest knife buy....I definitely prefer carbons.



but there all sold out... I guess yoshi’s the way? Or wait?


----------



## labor of love

soigne_west said:


> but there all sold out... I guess yoshi’s the way? Or wait?


I can’t prove they are, but I think they might be. The batches came out at about the same time and they appear identical to me.


----------



## soigne_west

Or maybe I’ll just throw up a WTB, I know most of you have like six each


----------



## captaincaed

Portland knife house had Maz that look like CC to me.


----------



## Gregmega

soigne_west said:


> So of the available 240’s right now. Who does everyone think I should buy from? CC, yoshi or k&s?
> 
> edit: this will be my first maz



I went over to the Yoshi store (in Beverly Hills) and he was kind enough to let me fondle them. They’re great, they are likely the same batch as the CKC ones that I’ve seen/held. Buy with confidence. Maz’s are really consistent- from batch to batch. And they’re seemingly getting closer to an ultimate style, from all that I’ve seen, bought, borrowed from the 1st gen to now, I’m seeing a unification overall. Either way, they’re all performers and a great value no matter where they come from. (Except for that one weird batch that jns peddled a while back between gens 2 & 3 with the pippy longstocking nose)


----------



## soigne_west

Gregmega said:


> I went over to the Yoshi store (in Beverly Hills) and he was kind enough to let me fondle them. They’re great, they are likely the same batch as the CKC ones that I’ve seen/held. Buy with confidence. Maz’s are really consistent- from batch to batch. And they’re seemingly getting closer to an ultimate style, from all that I’ve seen, bought, borrowed from the 1st gen to now, I’m seeing a unification overall. Either way, they’re all performers and a great value no matter where they come from. (Except for that one weird batch that jns peddled a while back between gens 2 & 3 with the pippy longstocking nose)



I ended up getting the K&S. just cause I preferred, for this knife, the non KU. Like Ashy said it was James words on the 2020's that sealed the deal for me, although i have no doubt that the Yoshi's are top notch. I'll update when the knife comes in.


----------



## dsk

Gregmega said:


> I went over to the Yoshi store (in Beverly Hills) and he was kind enough to let me fondle them. They’re great, they are likely the same batch as the CKC ones that I’ve seen/held. Buy with confidence. Maz’s are really consistent- from batch to batch. And they’re seemingly getting closer to an ultimate style, from all that I’ve seen, bought, borrowed from the 1st gen to now, I’m seeing a unification overall. Either way, they’re all performers and a great value no matter where they come from. (Except for that one weird batch that jns peddled a while back between gens 2 & 3 with the pippy longstocking nose)



Yo I still enjoy my last jns batch maz. Mine doesnt seem nearly as exaggerated on the tip upsweep as some peoples. The one 210mm on bst is nuts


----------



## Gregmega

soigne_west said:


> I ended up getting the K&S. just cause I preferred, for this knife, the non KU. Like Ashy said it was James words on the 2020's that sealed the deal for me, although i have no doubt that the Yoshi's are top notch. I'll update when the knife comes in.



You’re gonna be amazed. It should be noted though- the migaki and the ku are almost a completely different species. The ku feels more robust & sturdy, while the migaki has an almost finesse vibe, and I mean in the best way for both. Not to be the devil’s advocate here, but you’re really gonna need both after your first taste [emoji12]....


----------



## Gregmega

dsk said:


> Yo I still enjoy my last jns batch maz. Mine doesnt seem nearly as exaggerated on the tip upsweep as some peoples. The one 210mm on bst is nuts



Yeah some of those were just odd. But as I said before- like em or not, they’re all great performers. Some just fell off the ugly tree[emoji1].


----------



## jimmy_d

Briochy said:


> Measurements are pretty similar to CKC that other members have. Mine came with a rather flat grind so food sticks quite a bit. It's pretty thin behind the edge, but can be thinner.


Do you have the KU? You have a choil shot?


----------



## jimmy_d

soigne_west said:


> I ended up getting the K&S. just cause I preferred, for this knife, the non KU. Like Ashy said it was James words on the 2020's that sealed the deal for me, although i have no doubt that the Yoshi's are top notch. I'll update when the knife comes in.


Did James get more in? I thought they were sold out...


----------



## soigne_west

jimmy_d said:


> Did James get more in? I thought they were sold out...



I think I got the last one


----------



## captaincaed

Is it just me or has Maz nearly doubled in price in the past year?


----------



## J.C

captaincaed said:


> Is it just me or has Maz nearly doubled in price in the past year?



which vendors are you refer to?


----------



## labor of love

Just you. 

Which knife do you see that’s doubled? 240mm have gone from $230 to nowadays $280-$313 as far as I can tell.


----------



## captaincaed

Crap I think I was looking in AUD. Mah baaaad


----------



## captaincaed

Anyone actually tried the new one James is gushing over?


----------



## JoBone

Hope for a little insight on this one. I picked up this Yoshi Mazaki 3rd hand from the large sell off of the collector in CA that passed away. For those who don’t know the story, a person won an auction of a storage box which contained about 100 high end knives.

This particular one does not have the typical Mazaki signature, but is part of the Yoshi Mazaki series. I am thinking it is an older model, but would like to hear what others think.


----------



## CiderBear

JoBone said:


> Hope for a little insight on this one. I picked up this Yoshi Mazaki 3rd hand from the large sell off of the collector in CA that passed away. For those who don’t know the story, a person won an auction of a storage box which contained about 100 high end knives.
> 
> This particular one does not have the typical Mazaki signature, but is part of the Yoshi Mazaki series. I am thinking it is an older model, but would like to hear what others think.



Ohhh I need to hear more about the box


----------



## JoBone

CiderBear said:


> Ohhh I need to hear more about the box



I don’t have much info and don’t wish to hijack this thread, but I got a couple from eBay and a few direct from the seller. I thought it was his collection, but he was just lucky as hell (Yeah, we all wish we were there)

Some of those made it to the flipping alert thread about some Shigs in January. I picked up a few including this Mazaki, a Shig KU santoku, Kato WH, sukenari k-tip and a Saji rainbow gyuto. Been enjoying all of them.


----------



## Viggetorr

JoBone said:


> Hope for a little insight on this one. I picked up this Yoshi Mazaki 3rd hand from the large sell off of the collector in CA that passed away. For those who don’t know the story, a person won an auction of a storage box which contained about 100 high end knives.
> 
> This particular one does not have the typical Mazaki signature, but is part of the Yoshi Mazaki series. I am thinking it is an older model, but would like to hear what others think.



Looks like one of the earlier batcher, with a more santoku-ish profile. He transitioned away from that profile pretty quickly, but I know some people on here would pay extra to get one of those in KU.


----------



## Gregmega

Viggetorr said:


> Looks like one of the earlier batcher, with a more santoku-ish profile. He changed away from that profile pretty quickly, but I know some people on here would pay extra to get one of those in KU.



I’d agree. Looks like the first gen ku nash from a couple years ago. Good find. I had one but it was one of the duds with a bum heat treat sadly. I have the kns one from James’ first batch of 2, and it is a beast.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Dare I say that the Mazaki style is catching on?


----------



## M1k3

Mazaki-son


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> Mazaki-son



Mazaki-bot


----------



## Robert Lavacca

Mini-Maz!


----------



## soigne_west

How’s mine look?


----------



## Bcos17

@soigne_west Is that an aftermarket handle? or a special model from KNS or somewhere?


----------



## soigne_west

I just ordered it from k&s.. this is how it came


----------



## soigne_west

Does it look somewhat lefty biased to anyone or is that just me?


----------



## Bcos17

Very cool, love that handle


----------



## bahamaroot

soigne_west said:


> Does it look somewhat lefty biased to anyone or is that just me?


Just you, looks very righty to me.


----------



## soigne_west

I’m legally blind in one eye and the other isn’t much better


----------



## soigne_west

If you look down at the bottom. Various k&s handles.


----------



## soigne_west

And here are the measurements 

246x53
5.6mm out the handle
4.8mm above heel
2.8mm halfway
277 grams


----------



## kidsos

After a few days cooking with it I must say it is a real nice cutter, but boy is it reactive! And some weird colours but I like it


----------



## Kristoffer

kidsos said:


> After a few days cooking with it I must say it is a real nice cutter, but boy is it reactive! And some weird colours but I like itView attachment 74403



There’s a thread for that 

Ping: @Carl Kotte


----------



## Robert Lavacca

I found my first maz pretty reactive until a light patina settled. I think the first time I used it I broke down a case or two of cauliflower. Washed it when I was done.. dried it and still thought I saw a small rust spot. Was definitely in my head though haha


----------



## bahamaroot

Mine seemed really reactive at first but calmed down very fast. I've definitely had much worse.


----------



## Carl Kotte

I undressed my Mazaki. I was surprised by the tang. Imagined it would be longer.


----------



## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> I undressed my Mazaki. I was surprised by the tang. Imagined it would be longer.
> View attachment 74442
> View attachment 74443



That's.... what... she said...


----------



## J.C

M1k3 said:


> That's.... what... she said...


----------



## kidsos

I was tracing my knife for a saya builder and took some measurements and I thought maybe someone would like to see them for research
purposes or something. So here ya go!


----------



## dsk

kidsos said:


> I was tracing my knife for a saya builder and took some measurements and I thought maybe someone would like to see them for research
> purposes or something. So here ya go!View attachment 75060



Your sketch handwriting is oddly satisfying.


----------



## kidsos

dsk said:


> Your sketch handwriting is oddly satisfying.


Thanks I suppose )


----------



## zizirex

Hi, does anyone have experience with His Nakiri? how does it perform? wedging and fall through the food concern?


----------



## J.C

zizirex said:


> Hi, does anyone have experience with His Nakiri? how does it perform? wedging and fall through the food concern?



i believe @Xenif can answer your question here. Or you can actually find his posts on his instagram.
Your welcome


----------



## Gregmega

Whatevs


----------



## Gregmega

Nasty profile man. Nothing like that first gen...


----------



## IsoJ

Gregmega said:


> Whatevs


Gorgeous!


----------



## TSF415

Gregmega said:


> Whatevs



Dope


----------



## Carl Kotte

I think I sexified my undressed Mazaki. Gave it a new dress! Thanks again @MrHiggins who sold me this one!


----------



## marc4pt0

Gregmega said:


> Whatevs




Dope nasty


----------



## MrHiggins

Carl Kotte said:


> I think I sexified my undressed Mazaki. Gave it a new dress! Thanks again @MrHiggins who sold me this one!



My old "wasp slayer" in nice new shoes. Lookin good, Carl!


----------



## Carl Kotte

MrHiggins said:


> My old "wasp slayer" in nice new shoes. Lookin good, Carl!


That’s the one (and only?)! Thank you! It still holds up very well. Not slaying any wasps these days though. It’s an omnivore. But it sees more veggies than anything else (yes, beige veggies).


----------



## friz

I don't know if you guys already know this, next batch of Mazakis Damascus is due this September.
When I asked for a 240mm gyuto, I have been given these prices:
Blue#2 2450AUD ish
Blue#1 3200AUD ish

Yeah!

These information come from the retailer. I just want to spread the word here cause I know there are many Mazaki fans among you guys.
Would love to hear your opinions.


----------



## daveb

Got email from James yesterday re Mazaki. Interesting.


----------



## jacko9

daveb said:


> Got email from James yesterday re Mazaki. Interesting.



And? What did it say?


----------



## daveb

I don't want to repost - I'll leave that to him to distribute as he sees fit. Prolly find it on his website or joining his mailing list.


----------



## Corradobrit1

daveb said:


> Got email from James yesterday re Mazaki. Interesting.


Is this about Mazaki or Covid19? Nothing about Mazaki I could see. How about giving us the cliff notes Dave?


----------



## Corradobrit1

friz said:


> I don't know if you guys already know this, next batch of Mazakis Damascus is due this September.
> When I asked for a 240mm gyuto, I have been given these prices:
> Blue#2 2450AUD ish
> Blue#1 3200AUD ish
> 
> Yeah!
> 
> These information come from the retailer. I just want to spread the word here cause I know there are many Mazaki fans among you guys.
> Would love to hear your opinions.


Are those ex GST prices?


----------



## Gregmega

friz said:


> I don't know if you guys already know this, next batch of Mazakis Damascus is due this September.
> When I asked for a 240mm gyuto, I have been given these prices:
> Blue#2 2450AUD ish
> Blue#1 3200AUD ish
> 
> Yeah!
> 
> These information come from the retailer. I just want to spread the word here cause I know there are many Mazaki fans among you guys.
> Would love to hear your opinions.


This can’t be right. 1400/1900???? Are you sure?? For a damascus clad Maz??


----------



## TSF415

I talked to a retailer that already had the dammy in stock and it was $1235 for a 210 and $1510 for a 240.


----------



## Gregmega

TSF415 said:


> I talked to a retailer that already had the dammy in stock and it was $1235 for a 210 and $1510 for a 240.


GTFOH


----------



## Corradobrit1

Wow talk about pricing yourself out of the market


----------



## TSF415

Gregmega said:


> GTFOH


I wish I could but I’m sheltering in place


----------



## TSF415

Corradobrit1 said:


> Wow talk about pricing yourself out of the market


I definitely lol’d when I heard the price.


----------



## Gregmega

Well I’d heard it was gonna be high- but this is another fkn level. @friz that’s confirmed??


----------



## WPerry

I take it this is in reference to his post a week or so ago on IG?


----------



## drsmp

Gist of KS email - big Japanese dealer convinced Mazaki that James was pricing Damascus way too low. End result J dealer now gets all the Damascus versions.


----------



## parbaked

Can you name the Japanese dealer so we can avoid buying from them?


----------



## TSF415

parbaked said:


> Can you name the Japanese dealer so we can avoid buying from them?


It’s a wholesaler. From what I figured out on ig. 

What sucked was that the mazaki on kns aus were cheap for a few days because of the exchange rate. I was about to buy one and then this thing happened and kns raised the prices to match us pricing on his website.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Let me guess..... Hocho


----------



## Gregmega

parbaked said:


> Can you name the Japanese dealer so we can avoid buying from them?


Logic would dictate that we have no idea who this guy is as he’s a wholesaler, so if there’s dammy out there, they’re from him. But forget about that- let’s talk about how you could get an ittetsu honyaki for less than a 210 Maz with swirlies on the face. Just sayin...


----------



## labor of love

Looks close to Mizuno DX suminigashi prices.


----------



## soigne_west

TSF415 said:


> It’s a wholesaler. From what I figured out on ig.
> 
> What sucked was that the mazaki on kns aus were cheap for a few days because of the exchange rate. I was about to buy one and then this thing happened and kns raised the prices to match us pricing on his website.



How much USD were they before he adjusted the price?


----------



## Briochy

parbaked said:


> Can you name the Japanese dealer so we can avoid buying from them?


It was Dorikano according to Eitan's ig story.


----------



## TSF415

soigne_west said:


> How much USD were they before he adjusted the price?


Not anything insane. I think the 270mm suji was like $30-$40 cheaper.


----------



## bahamaroot

I was looking forward to getting a Maz Dammy but not happening at those prices....


----------



## Corradobrit1

bahamaroot said:


> I was looking forward to getting a Maz Dammy but not happening at those prices....


Def not, for something thats purely cosmetic. Thats Honyaki pricing from makers the likes of Mizuno.


----------



## labor of love

James is just the messenger. Don’t shoot the messenger.


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> James is just the messenger. Don’t shoot the messenger.


I don't think anyone is bitching on James. He's clearly upset with the situation from that IG post.


----------



## Gregmega

Nobody’s shooting the messenger. Everyone is shooting the price of a swirly clad for x5 the price.

*I'm the last guy to understand the economics and politics of that game, nor do I really care. But I’m still a customer and end user. So I don’t mean to sound flat with my comments. I’ll just stick with my w2, which do a fine job for me.


----------



## soigne_west

Screw that middleman dude. Seems like a jerk.


----------



## jacko9

TSF415 said:


> I talked to a retailer that already had the dammy in stock and it was $1235 for a 210 and $1510 for a 240.



Not for me - good luck for Mazaki but, I think he's getting bad advise in a tight coronavirus plagued market where so many people are out of work. Supply and Demand I guess.


----------



## TSF415

For sure James is the one that got screwed here.


----------



## daveb

drsmp said:


> Gist of KS email - big Japanese dealer convinced Mazaki that James was pricing Damascus way too low. End result J dealer now gets all the Damascus versions.



This. I don't do drama. And I don't do Mazaki. So not much interest here.

He did allude to some Yoshi in SKD coming. That piques my interest.


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> I don't think anyone is bitching on James. He's clearly upset with the situation from that IG post.


Lol. Just making sure you know which direction to target your b*itching


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

A retailer in Hong Kong is selling 240 dammy blue 2 for ~$1500 and blue 1 for ~$1950. Crazy. 

I wonder how much James sold his blue 2 dammy for.


----------



## labor of love

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> A retailer in Hong Kong is selling 240 dammy blue 2 for ~$1500 and blue 1 for ~$1950. Crazy.
> 
> I wonder how much James sold his blue 2 dammy for.


A very flippable price.


----------



## bahamaroot

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> A retailer in Hong Kong is selling 240 dammy blue 2 for ~$1500 and blue 1 for ~$1950. Crazy.


That's just nuckin' futs!


----------



## Gregmega

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> A retailer in Hong Kong is selling 240 dammy blue 2 for ~$1500 and blue 1 for ~$1950. Crazy.
> 
> I wonder how much James sold his blue 2 dammy for.


Yeah that’s a hard no from me. I don’t know enough of the politics or economics that go into this stuff and nor do I care. 2k for a dammy clad is praying on some weak soul no matter how you slice it (haha see what I did there?)


----------



## MIke J

Ordered my first Mazaki....saw Dustin’s handles and was impressed...can’t wait to get it in 
was impressed...can’t wait to get it in hand!!

https://realsharpknife.com/collecti...i-240mm-gyuto-polished?variant=32696254496906

Quarantine discount was a plus!! Now to read the rest of this thread....


----------



## TSF415

MIke J said:


> Ordered my first Mazaki....saw Dustin’s handles and was impressed...can’t wait to get it in
> was impressed...can’t wait to get it in hand!!
> 
> https://realsharpknife.com/collecti...i-240mm-gyuto-polished?variant=32696254496906
> 
> Quarantine discount was a plus!! Now to read the rest of this thread....


Nice Deal!


----------



## friz

Gregmega said:


> Well I’d heard it was gonna be high- but this is another fkn level. @friz that’s confirmed??


I can't say it is confirmed, that is what this retailer told me.
Also from my understanding, does this retailer have the exclusive to sell the damascus? If so that is going to be the price, but I am not sure whether there will be more retailers carrying the damascus line.


----------



## TSF415

Can’t want to see how much a mazaki honyaki costs!


----------



## M1k3

TSF415 said:


> Can’t want to see how much a mazaki honyaki costs!



Let's see, regular line about mid to high $200.
Dammy at about $1200-1500.
Honyaki $5000+?


----------



## lemeneid

jacko9 said:


> Not for me - good luck for Mazaki but, I think he's getting bad advise in a tight coronavirus plagued market where so many people are out of work. Supply and Demand I guess.


This can't be further from the truth. I don't understand why so many people assume US and EU to represent "the world".

As far as the coronavirus is concerned, Japan has it under control whilst the biggest market for luxury goods, China is on the mend now, after being in lockdown for so long, they are breaking out and ready to spend again and a 2k Maz means nothing really.

As for "the world", rich folk will still be rich folk. Spending for them is still a non-issue. Its only middle class and lower folk who feel the pinch right now.

As for Mazaki, I do kind of understand his position, no one is going to buy Dammy knife for work with the current situation, you can buy his normal knives and they will work equally well. If he is going to be stuck with Dammy stock in his workshop, the wise choice would be to offload them for a bit more cash to a retailer who can sell it for him. He needs to feed himself now too.


----------



## TSF415

lemeneid said:


> This can't be further from the truth. I don't understand why so many people assume US and EU to represent "the world".
> 
> As far as the coronavirus is concerned, Japan has it under control whilst the biggest market for luxury goods, China is on the mend now, after being in lockdown for so long, they are breaking out and ready to spend again and a 2k Maz means nothing really.
> 
> As for "the world", rich folk will still be rich folk. Spending for them is still a non-issue. Its only middle class and lower folk who feel the pinch right now.
> 
> As for Mazaki, I do kind of understand his position, no one is going to buy Dammy knife for work with the current, you can buy his normal knives and they will work equally well. If he is going to be stuck with Dammy stock in his workshop, the wise choice would be to offload them for a bit more cash to a retailer who can sell it for him. He needs to feed himself now too.


Correct. Nothing to do with the current situation. Rather whether or not it’s actually worth it regardless of an economy crippling crisis. As for a $1500 dammy, no thanks. I’m sure for many people $1500 is insignificant but as for right now that shits outrageous for that knife.


----------



## lemeneid

TSF415 said:


> Correct. Nothing to do with the current situation. Rather whether or not it’s actually worth it regardless of an economy crippling crisis. As for a $1500 dammy, no thanks. I’m sure for many people $1500 is insignificant but as for right now that shits outrageous for that knife.


Definitely agreed, Mazaki imo hasn't reached the level where you could justify $1500 for a dammy. Same with Jiro.


----------



## Corradobrit1

lemeneid said:


> As for "the world", rich folk will still be rich folk. Spending for them is still a non-issue.


Those guys and gals are buying Kramer and Chelsea Miller knives.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

That’s crazy man.. I’m wondering if this wholesale jerk had a problem with the standard blue 2 gyuto prices as well. I was looking forward to maz possibly producing more than just gyutos in blue 2 for the future. If the prices get jacked up for the standard blue 2 as well though i’ll have to pass. The blue 2 gyuto I got from james is awesome. The fit and finish was very surprising. Not sure if I would go for anymore if the prices got jacked like the dammy is being jacked. People these days..


----------



## Gregmega

Robert Lavacca said:


> That’s crazy man.. I’m wondering if this wholesale jerk had a problem with the standard blue 2 gyuto prices as well. I was looking forward to maz possibly producing more than just gyutos in blue 2 for the future. If the prices get jacked up for the standard blue 2 as well though i’ll have to pass. The blue 2 gyuto I got from james is awesome. The fit and finish was very surprising. Not sure if I would go for anymore if the prices got jacked like the dammy is being jacked. People these days..


Man I hear ya. I was pumped to try a b2 as well. Who knows- maybe that will materialize later in a standard clad rendition that’s closer to the whites. I mean if he’s wrapping it in dammy, what’s the harm in wrapping it in iron clad for us plebs


----------



## ma_sha1

The $1500 Mazaki Dami, lol, all it did was to help me justify Toyama dami as “value”. I’ll take Toyama dami over Mazaki dami any day.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

ma_sha1 said:


> The $1500 Mazaki Dami, lol, all it did was to help me justify Toyama dami as “value”. I’ll take Toyama dami over Mazaki dami any day.


I know.. especially with the 270 being on sale for 700 the other day haha


----------



## labor of love

Didn’t KNS have non dammy Mazaki gyutos recently? Maybe $550ish?


----------



## dan

labor of love said:


> Didn’t KNS have non dammy Mazaki gyutos recently? Maybe $550ish?


This is what I want to know more about. The damascus, at $1500, prices itself out of the ‘tool’ range to me so I’m not very interested. Though I am disappointed to hear about the business ****ery that James suffered.

Anyways, I recall the same on regular B2 gyutos... maybe they were labeled hon kasumi?


----------



## jacko9

labor of love said:


> Didn’t KNS have non dammy Mazaki gyutos recently? Maybe $550ish?



I think that falls into the same category as $500 Kato's - not any more! Looks like somebody in the supply chain "educated Mazaki on supply and demand"


----------



## M1k3

labor of love said:


> Didn’t KNS have non dammy Mazaki gyutos recently? Maybe $550ish?



Yes.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

Yeah they did. I was just saying if the prices end up sky rocketing on those too because of this same guy that would suck. Obviously he had a problem with the prices that james sold the blue dammy for. I just hope that scumbag didn’t say anything about any of the blue 2 kasumi gyutos as well because I was hoping maz would make more than just gyutos in blue also.


----------



## TSF415

labor of love said:


> Didn’t KNS have non dammy Mazaki gyutos recently? Maybe $550ish?



$469 although my guess is that won’t exist anymore.


----------



## sumofruit

Interesting. If he's able to find a market at these prices, it's possible his now 'entry-level' knives might also increase in price. Now I don't feel so guilty about all those Mazakis I got!


----------



## labor of love

Mazaki prices are always increasing. But overall quality increases with it. I welcome the future where I can pay more for a nicer Mazaki.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Right. The Kasumi white 2 gyuto I got from KnS last month doesn’t look like anything from Mazaki before. It almost leads me to believe it was finished by someone else.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

And I don’t know if the grind has improved along with the finish. So far I still think the 2019 CarbonKnifeCo/Yoshihiro KU version might have a better grind.


----------



## sumofruit

labor of love said:


> Mazaki prices are always increasing. But overall quality increases with it. I welcome the future where I can pay more for a nicer Mazaki.


What are the main quality issues you see in prior and current Mazakis, beyond the profile (in some cases) and the inconsistencies, and where do you think the greatest upside improvements are?


----------



## Robert Lavacca

I’m not talking about standard increases. I’m talking about huge ones. I know mazaki is a love or hate thing. I’m a fan. I grabbed one of those blue 240s and I really dig it. I was just saying.. I hope there aren’t going to be more than just standard increases on the blue steel mazaki knives next time they show up. I wasn’t sure if this guy had a problem with just the prices k&s sold the dammy at or if he had a problem with the blue 240 price being only $470 also. Since it was the first time (at least from what i’ve seen) blue steel double bevel mazaki’s were sold. I understand the better a smith gets the higher price will be. I also understand the other reasons increases happen. I have no problem with standard increases as long as their are improvements or reasons to back them up. At the same time if this guy doesn’t like the fact that the first blue steel maz 240s were sold for $470, I hope the next time they pop up they won’t have a silly price tag like the dammy will end up having. That’s all. I’ve always liked the grind etc on any maz I bought. Really want one his 270s next.


----------



## labor of love

sumofruit said:


> What are the main quality issues you see in prior and current Mazakis, beyond the profile (in some cases) and the inconsistencies, and where do you think the greatest upside improvements are?


No issues for me in the past or present. The old adage “you get what you pay for” rings true...I can’t put my finger on it...but overall I like the Carbon/yoshihiro new batches the most and they’re the most expensive to date besides the collectors edition dammys


----------



## labor of love

Robert Lavacca said:


> I’m not talking about standard increases. I’m talking about huge ones. I know mazaki is a love or hate thing. I’m a fan. I grabbed one of those blue 240s and I really dig it. I was just saying.. I hope there aren’t going to be more than just standard increases on the blue steel mazaki knives next time they show up. I wasn’t sure if this guy had a problem with just the prices k&s sold the dammy at or if he had a problem with the blue 240 price being only $470 also. Since it was the first time (at least from what i’ve seen) blue steel double bevel mazaki’s were sold. I understand the better a smith gets the higher price will be. I also understand the other reasons increases happen. I have no problem with standard increases as long as their are improvements or reasons to back them up. At the same time if this guy doesn’t like the fact that the first blue steel maz 240s were sold for $470, I hope the next time they pop up they won’t have a silly price tag like the dammy will end up having. That’s all. I’ve always liked the grind etc on any maz I bought. Really want one his 270s next.


I don’t think Kasumi blue versions will shoot up in price. The manufacturing process is basically the same as his wh2 right? But I’m also not a psychic.
James goes into some detail about the cost attributed to the dammy line
https://www.knivesandstones.com.au/products/copy-of-mazaki-white-2-gyuto-240mm
I totally get it why most wouldn’t want one because of the price, and I agree. 
But the dammys are all him, small batches, probably extremely labor intensive especially if he’s bringing it to market for the first time and wants it as close to perfect as possible.


----------



## jacko9

I got a Mazaki from JNS a 180 Gyuto which I think was W#2 and a 90mm Stainless Petty in Nov. 2018. Petty is really refined but the Gyuto seems like it was "homemade" and wedges in onions and other root product. I would like to get a more recent example of his knives but the price increases might keep them out of my range for a look see knife.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

labor of love said:


> I don’t think Kasumi blue versions will shoot up in price. The manufacturing process is basically the same as his wh2 right? But I’m also not a psychic.
> James goes into some detail about the cost attributed to the dammy line
> https://www.knivesandstones.com.au/products/copy-of-mazaki-white-2-gyuto-240mm
> I totally get it why most wouldn’t want one because of the price, and I agree.
> But the dammys are all him, small batches, probably extremely labor intensive especially if he’s bringing it to market for the first time and wants it as close to perfect as possible.


Totally agree. Was just hoping for other profiles in blue from maz in the future since I prefer blue over white normally. Hopefully the prices stay reasonable if he does.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I think the Kasumi blue 2 was more expensive because Mazaki didn’t use pre-laminated stock for that one and that’s why it’s called hon-sanmai.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

jacko9 said:


> The Gyuto seems like it was "homemade" and wedges in onions and other root product.


My 2020 KnS one has a much better finish but still wedges in carrots.


----------



## labor of love

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think the Kasumi blue 2 was more expensive because Mazaki didn’t use pre-laminated stock for that one and that’s why it’s called hon-sanmai.


Boom

Blue steel Mazakis just shot up $100 in price.


----------



## Cliff

Where do you see that? I'm new to this party. I got one of the very last JNS 240's. It's a little curvier than I would like, and the finish is rough; but the grind is amazing. The knife cuts through big carrots like butter, better than my Wat's. I'm excited to try a 270


----------



## bahamaroot

jacko9 said:


> I got a Mazaki from JNS a 180 Gyuto which I think was W#2 and a 90mm Stainless Petty in Nov. 2018. Petty is really refined but the Gyuto seems like it was "homemade" and wedges in onions and other root product...





Hz_zzzzzz said:


> My 2020 KnS one has a much better finish but still wedges in carrots.


I have a 2018 215mm and a early 2019 245mm version gyuto from Cleancut and f&f was excellent on both and they fly through root vegetables. They're my main go to knives. The JNS versions always looked more rough from the online pictures.


----------



## JayS20

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> A retailer in Hong Kong is selling 240 dammy blue 2 for ~$1500 and blue 1 for ~$1950. Crazy.
> 
> I wonder how much James sold his blue 2 dammy for.


Was 1.980,00 AU$.


----------



## Cliff

bahamaroot said:


> I have a 2018 215mm and a early 2019 245mm version gyuto from Cleancut and f&f was excellent on both and they fly through root vegetables. They're my main go to knives. The JNS versions always looked more rough from the online pictures.



I should edit mine to add that the finish polish is rough on mine. It came with deep scratches left in. But I don't mind that. It's a tool. The spine and choil came nicely eased, and the handle is great. I'm still getting used to the profile. It's curvier than the pictures, but it works quite well. There's a big upsweep at the tip, and then a more gradual curve with a couple of sweet spots. As I say, the real surprise for me is the grind, which is just stunningly good.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

JayS20 said:


> Was 1.980,00 AU$.


Thank you!


----------



## Geigs

bahamaroot said:


> I have a 2018 215mm and a early 2019 245mm version gyuto from Cleancut and f&f was excellent on both and they fly through root vegetables. They're my main go to knives. The JNS versions always looked more rough from the online pictures.


ditto, I have an early 2019 245mm and it's a great cutter with really nice FnF


----------



## sumofruit

jacko9 said:


> I got a Mazaki from JNS a 180 Gyuto which I think was W#2 and a 90mm Stainless Petty in Nov. 2018. Petty is really refined but the Gyuto seems like it was "homemade" and wedges in onions and other root product. I would like to get a more recent example of his knives but the price increases might keep them out of my range for a look see knife.


Does the distal taper coupled with the height contribute to wedging?


----------



## TRPV4

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> A retailer in Hong Kong is selling 240 dammy blue 2 for ~$1500 and blue 1 for ~$1950. Crazy.
> 
> I wonder how much James sold his blue 2 dammy for.



which retailer lol? syoukon?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Just received a Mazaki from Yoshihiro. This knife is fantastic. Probably my best cutter under $400. Cuts potato like a dream. Cuts carrots as well as my Wat. Oh man. Can’t believe by how much it cuts better than the Kasumi one I got from KnS earlier this year.


----------



## Cliff

That looks great, super thin behind the edge. I have been pleased by the profile on the KnS Kasumi I got a few weeks ago, but the grind is not as good as an earlier JNS version. It's going to take some work to get it to cut as well. The edge came wicked sharp, as good as anything I've ever gotten. But it's wedging more than it should.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Right. Nothing to complain about the edge of the KnS Kasumi as it cuts paper towel easily. As you can see in the picture, the Yoshihiro one has a slightly concave grind near the edge which is similar to that part of my Konosuke FM white 1. My KnS Kasumi one has a flatter almost convex grind near the edge so it gets thicker quickly, which results in wedging.


----------



## Kristoffer

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Just received a Mazaki from Yoshihiro. This knife is fantastic. Probably my best cutter under $400. Cuts potato like a dream. Cuts carrots as well as my Wat. Oh man. Can’t believe by how much it cuts better than the Kasumi one I got from KnS earlier this year.
> View attachment 79705
> 
> View attachment 79707



Wow! That looks great! The choil shot does indeed look very different from the previous Maz batches that were quite convex.


----------



## Matt Jacobs

I decided to burn Mazaki handle today (I know I'm a copycat). I think it turned out great


----------



## Cliff

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Right. Nothing to complain about the edge of the KnS Kasumi as it cuts paper towel easily. As you can see in the picture, the Yoshihiro one has a slightly concave grind near the edge which is similar to that part of my Konosuke FM white 1. My KnS Kasumi one has a flatter almost convex grind near the edge so it gets thicker quickly, which results in wedging.




Not sure of how to get that concave effect without power tools. I have heard of using a cork with some sandpaper -- really not something I want to try with what has become a pricey knife. I agree about the convex starting too close to the edge. While I like the food release, I'm thinking of knocking that back so it doesn't wedge so much.


----------



## BillHanna

I’m thinking of getting a petty from SHARP Knife Shop. Does anyone know about the quality of their supply?


----------



## JayS20

Also curious which batch do you guys think their Mazakis are.








Mazaki Kurouchi Gyuto 240 mm


Blade Length 240 mm Total Length 403 mm Steel Shirogami (White) #2 Handle Keyaki Ferrule Buffalo Horn Rockwell 62 Height Spine to heel 53 mm Width at Spine 3 mm Weight 241 grams Mazaki-san is a young and very talented Blacksmith working out of the Sanjo region of Japan. He forges and sharpens...



sharpknifeshop.com


----------



## Cliff

I don't have any intel. From the photo, the profile looks similar to mine, from KnS, though mine is a 270. For what it's worth, I think it is a wonderful, KS profile. I held it up next to my KS, and they're nearly identical, although the Mazaki is a much taller, heftier knife. From the photos, the distal taper looks great and I think it looks like a thinner grind than mine, though I find choil shots hard to read in the best of cases. Getting a slightly thicker grind is not the end of the world. It just requires a little thinning.


----------



## lumo

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Just received a Mazaki from Yoshihiro. This knife is fantastic...


Looks like the Maz I got from CKC, the best version I'v handled so far. I might even like it as much if not a little more than my KU Wat.


----------



## roughrider

Matt Jacobs said:


> I decided to burn Mazaki handle today (I know I'm a copycat). I think it turned out great



That does look pretty nice.


----------



## zizirex

Hi, thinking about grabbing some of Mazaki Gyuto, Should I go with 210 or 240? any preference?


----------



## Malcolm Johnson

zizirex said:


> Hi, thinking about grabbing some of Mazaki Gyuto, Should I go with 210 or 240? any preference?


Depends on your preference. I’d like to have both  but for real do you want a longer knife or shorter? They tend to run a little long so if you like Sakai 240’s then maybe get a 210 because they can run pretty long and check retailers to see if they have a long one in stock.


----------



## M1k3

You a home or professional cook? What kind of cutting board space do you have?


----------



## zizirex

it is for the home cook, I don't really cut hard root veggies etc often. Mostly just for Onion, shallots, garlic, mushroom, green beans. For protein, mainly Beef, Boneless Chicken Leg, Fillet Fish and Whole medium Fish (Pompano etc). I use Hi-Soft and Teak End Grain, but mostly use the Hisoft. I kinda want the 210, but I want to know if the cutting feel will be a difference for the 240 since it's heavier. I have a lot of 240 but mostly laser (Kotetsu AS, Sakai Yusuke, Ohishi AS, Wakui, Takada No Hamono ) and for 210 I have Takamura and Hinoura. So a new variety would be nice.


----------



## Carl Kotte

Never say no to Mazaki!  A 210 will serve you well (well, a 240 would too).


----------



## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> Never say no to Mazaki!  A 210 will serve you well (well, a 240 would too).


How can you say no if he makes all the knives?


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> How can you say no if he makes all the knives?View attachment 82211


And stands behind the best fashion!


----------



## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> And stands behind the best fashion!


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 82215


Exactly! (How do you make these? Seems like I’m missing out on something good.)


----------



## M1k3

Carl Kotte said:


> Exactly! (How do you make these? Seems like I’m missing out on something good.)







__





LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You


For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.




lmgtfy.com





EDIT: I just read the description


----------



## M1k3

It's a meme generator.


----------



## Carl Kotte

M1k3 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You
> 
> 
> For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lmgtfy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: I just read the description


That’s me alright!


----------



## Carl Kotte

Hmm, I have to talk to my tech guy


----------



## zizirex

i bit the bullet and get the 240. if I don't like it, well you're gonna see it on BST.


----------



## tchan001

Bit the bullet as well and bought a Mazaki w2 210mm from Syoukon-Hamono in Hong Kong. I'm in HK so I didn't have to wait to get it. Just showed up at the store. HK is usually quite humid so I need to take good care of it making sure it's oiled well whenever I put it back into the drawer. But heard so many good things about it so I wanted to give it a try. Normally prefer stainless as I'm a home cook and don't get as much action with my knives. I think the handle is Ivory Color Corian with Silver Colored Copper Rings and Ebony. Anyways that's the handle it came with and it keeps the knife nicely balanced. Was around USD220 so seems to be a good price. Seems to be one of the few leftover stocks cause the guy at the shop says they don't plan to restock Mazaki.


----------



## daveb

Every pic of that is a good one and looks good as well. I've never warmed to Mazaki but hope this works for you as well as it looks.


----------



## OnionSlicer

I need some help here. What do you fine Mazaki enthusiasts think of this choil shot?


----------



## labor of love

OnionSlicer said:


> I need some help here. What do you fine Mazaki enthusiasts think of this choil shot?


Blurry yet delicious


----------



## coffeelover191919

tchan001 said:


> Bit the bullet as well and bought a Mazaki w2 210mm from Syoukon-Hamono in Hong Kong. I'm in HK so I didn't have to wait to get it. Just showed up at the store. HK is usually quite humid so I need to take good care of it making sure it's oiled well whenever I put it back into the drawer. But heard so many good things about it so I wanted to give it a try. Normally prefer stainless as I'm a home cook and don't get as much action with my knives. I think the handle is Ivory Color Corian with Silver Colored Copper Rings and Ebony. Anyways that's the handle it came with and it keeps the knife nicely balanced. Was around USD220 so seems to be a good price. Seems to be one of the few leftover stocks cause the guy at the shop says they don't plan to restock Mazaki.
> View attachment 82324
> View attachment 82326
> View attachment 82325
> View attachment 82328
> View attachment 82330
> View attachment 82329


omg sexy...
hows this knife in W2? Would it hold a sharp edge as a line cook doing lots of garlic and veggies for a week?


----------



## Corradobrit1

coffeelover191919 said:


> omg sexy...
> hows this knife in W2? Would it hold a sharp edge as a line cook doing lots of garlic and veggies for a week?


He means Shirogami #2 (W#2) which is different to tool W2 steel


----------



## TSF415

OnionSlicer said:


> I need some help here. What do you fine Mazaki enthusiasts think of this choil shot?



Not an enthusiast but that looks closer to the one I have from kns which is crazy convexed and very different cutter from the yoshihiro/ckc batch which are suppppper thin behind the edge.


----------



## Hassanbensober

More Mazaki love 210 Nashiji Yoshihiro with a nice polish. Best knife for budget!


----------



## Malcolm Johnson

Hassanbensober said:


> More Mazaki love 210 Nashiji Yoshihiro with a nice polish. Best knife for budget!View attachment 83051
> View attachment 83052


I’m seriously regret picking a KnS over the Yoshihiro batch...


----------



## False_Cast

OnionSlicer said:


> I need some help here. What do you fine Mazaki enthusiasts think of this choil shot?


What do you need help with? The focus of the photo leaves something to be desired.


----------



## labor of love

TSF415 said:


> Not an enthusiast but that looks closer to the one I have from kns which is crazy convexed and very different cutter from the yoshihiro/ckc batch which are suppppper thin behind the edge.


This is a good point. Can’t wait to see how the next batch looks. Where does maz go from here?


----------



## OnionSlicer

False_Cast said:


> What do you need help with? The focus of the photo leaves something to be desired.



Just looking to get people's opinions on this grind so I can make an informed purchasing decision. It looks quite different to my wat, at least from that angle.


----------



## labor of love

OnionSlicer said:


> Just looking to get people's opinions on this grind so I can make an informed purchasing decision. It looks quite different to my wat, at least from that angle.


Which vendor did it originate from?


----------



## OnionSlicer

labor of love said:


> Which vendor did it originate from?



Knifewear


----------



## NO ChoP!

I jumped on the bandwagon. Got a petty coming too.


----------



## Malcolm Johnson

NO ChoP! said:


> I jumped on the bandwagon. Got a petty coming too.View attachment 83063


Now that’s a nice package. Where’s you pick up the blade from?


----------



## TSF415

Malcolm Johnson said:


> Now that’s a nice package. Where’s you pick up the blade from?



I think that’s the one I traded with him. It was from ckc. The thing was super bad ass and I never would have given it up except it had a pretty strong lefty grind. I bought one from yoshihiro to replace it. It’s nice but not nearly as hefty or bad ass as that one.


----------



## labor of love

What’s yoshihiro like customer service wise? I wouldn’t mind talking to them about one.


----------



## TSF415

labor of love said:


> What’s yoshihiro like customer service wise? I wouldn’t mind talking to them about one.



I didn’t have much contact with them about the mazaki. I placed certain requests in order notes. Don’t think they cared. 

Contacted them before about a Masashi to get answers on specs. Not sure if they’d actually go through inventory to look for variances you’d want but I never pushed the issue too much. 

They work out of Beverly Hills and I received my knife in 2 days so I’m guessing it’s a full operation they run from there.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Currently there’s only 270 available on Yoshihiro. Otherwise I’m seriously thinking of getting a 210 as well.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

labor of love said:


> What’s yoshihiro like customer service wise? I wouldn’t mind talking to them about one.


Not terrible. I bought my first maz from them a while ago. They answered all my questions. Forgot the guy’s name. Something with a J like jensen or something. He made it sound like all the 240’s were pretty similar in size. Height of around 52-53. Not sure about the 270’s. I really have been wanting a 270 but just haven’t pulled the trigger because of other interests/loss of hours at work. I’m not saying their on Jon’s level of customer service but I didn’t have a horrible experience.


----------



## Jville

TSF415 said:


> I think that’s the one I traded with him. It was from ckc. The thing was super bad ass and I never would have given it up except it had a pretty strong lefty grind. I bought one from yoshihiro to replace it. It’s nice but not nearly as hefty or bad ass as that one.


Ckc is carbon co, right. I've checked theirs out look nice. Wonder why they'd send you a lefty grind.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Robert Lavacca said:


> Not terrible. I bought my first maz from them a while ago. They answered all my questions. Forgot the guy’s name. Something with a J like jensen or something. He made it sound like all the 240’s were pretty similar in size. Height of around 52-53. Not sure about the 270’s. I really have been wanting a 270 but just haven’t pulled the trigger because of other interests/loss of hours at work. I’m not saying their on Jon’s level of customer service but I didn’t have a horrible experience.


Yes, his names Jensen. I contacted him about the 210 Maz to get actual measurements in early April. As Robert says, level of CS is good but not to Jon @JKI standard.
It was out of stock on the site but he found 2 more on the shelf. Specs were good ie oversized 210, with some weight. I just couldn't pull the trigger on a W#2 blade like this. Had it been B#2 I would have succumbed. I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot more B#2 in the near future, so happy to wait.


----------



## TSF415

Jville said:


> Ckc is carbon co, right. I've checked theirs out look nice. Wonder why they'd send you a lefty grind.



yes its carbon co. They sold thru their batch long ago. I’m sure it was not intentional by them and probably not by mazaki either. The other two I have are pretty even50/50.


----------



## coffeelover191919

Corradobrit1 said:


> He means Shirogami #2 (W#2) which is different to tool W2 steel


By W2 i meant white #2, didn't know W2 was another diff type of steel for knives.


----------



## DitmasPork

Ordered a 180 Maz nashiji petty, arriving this week. This new batch at Carbon looked awesome.


----------



## Runner_up

DitmasPork said:


> Ordered a 180 Maz nashiji petty, arriving this week. This new batch at Carbon looked awesome.



I snagged a 240 from this batch that just rocks


----------



## Helmore

Don't tease us so, give us pictures!


----------



## Runner_up

246 x 53mm , 243 grams.


----------



## DitmasPork

Runner_up said:


> 246 x 53mm , 243 grams.


That's a beaut! Pointier than the previous batch.


----------



## Malcolm Johnson

Runner_up said:


> 246 x 53mm , 243 grams.


How does she handle? Looks great


----------



## OnionSlicer

Seems like the nashiji is improving aesthetically. I've had my 240 for a week and couldn't be happier with it. Tempted to pull the trigger on a 270 suji against my better judgement.


----------



## DitmasPork

OnionSlicer said:


> Seems like the nashiji is improving aesthetically. I've had my 240 for a week and couldn't be happier with it. Tempted to pull the trigger on a 270 suji against my better judgement.


The sujis look sweet indeed!


----------



## Runner_up

DitmasPork said:


> That's a beaut! Pointier than the previous batch.



One of the things that made me pull the trigger. Nice profile with a longer flatspot, too. 



Malcolm Johnson said:


> How does she handle? Looks great



Very predictably. Well rounded in that it has equally good separation and release through product. No problems through a variety of ingredients including mushrooms, sweet potatoes, onions, and carrots. Edge and spine are straight as an arrow. 

I was very surprised by how well the spine and choil are finished.


----------



## Malcolm Johnson

Runner_up said:


> One of the things that made me pull the trigger. Nice profile with a longer flatspot, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Very predictably. Well rounded in that it has equally good separation and release through product. No problems through a variety of ingredients including mushrooms, sweet potatoes, onions, and carrots. Edge and spine are straight as an arrow.
> 
> I was very surprised by how well the spine and choil are finished.


I had one from the latest kns batch and wasn’t too impressed with how it moved through food. This one looks like it’s better overall ground... it definitely has me tempted.... I miss that thick spine out of the handle and weight.


----------



## coffeelover191919

labor of love said:


> What’s yoshihiro like customer service wise? I wouldn’t mind talking to them about one.


I had a good experience buying from them. Although english isn't their first language, and slightly slow (blame it on the pandemic) with the email/phone call response times.


----------



## zizirex

got mine from Knifewear Garage Sale. after using it for a week, it's hefty and cut through easily for small ingredients but wedges on onion and carrot. the cladding is stupidly reactive, I have my oil applicator standby after I use it.

overall, it pretty nice, I cut my palm sugar easily without any problem and the OOB could be better, the edge retention is pretty good overall.

here are some pics:


----------



## Inosuke Hashibira

After about a month use of my Mazaki gyuto, I am still loving it. Maybe its cos is the only gyuto I have at this moment, or it is just that good.


----------



## kingdingelling

Ordered a Migaki in 210 mm from cleancut yesterday. Really looking forward to it. I'm a little confused because of the handle. The description says ho-wood, some pictures showing keyaki I think...we will see


----------



## dsk

kingdingelling said:


> Ordered a Migaki in 210 mm from cleancut yesterday. Really looking forward to it. I'm a little confused because of the handle. The description says ho-wood, some pictures showing keyaki I think...we will see


the last batch was keyaki, yours will probably be ho. just my guess.


----------



## Helmore

kingdingelling said:


> Ordered a Migaki in 210 mm from cleancut yesterday. Really looking forward to it. I'm a little confused because of the handle. The description says ho-wood, some pictures showing keyaki I think...we will see


I emailed them about that two weeks ago. They said that current stock is the lighter colored Ho wood handle. The darker colored handles were from a previous keyaki wood handled batch. They weren't sure what the next shipment will use.


----------



## RockyBasel

Here is what can from carbon knife today...


----------



## kingdingelling

So I guess you are right...a bit pity. Would prefer the keyaki but not decisive for me. I'll let you know.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Those are sexy, I might have to pick one up - d___it I’m trying to reduce my knife count!


----------



## bahamaroot

Mazaki has seemed to have evolved into a Kato wannabe or Wantanabe or something like that....


----------



## zizirex

Maybe he knows the market for people in this forum. Best way to make money if the brand hype is supported by a large number of people.


----------



## dsk

now that im down to just my kipp, i definitely need another gyuto (am I officially a heretic?). im torn between the ckc 240 or going deep and getting a shihan 52100 or aebL. I'm still wishy washy on those craggy KU finishes but its growing on me.


----------



## eddoh

bahamaroot said:


> Mazaki has seemed to have evolved into a Kato wannabe or Wantanabe or something like that....



in what way? I’ve never handled either


----------



## NO ChoP!

I was indeed lucky enough to get a true lefty on trade.

Really digging this beast so far. Thin edge falls through anything. Superb retention for shiro. Absolutely nothing dares stick.

That being said, thought I'd post a PSA: I usually slice quite quick, often sliding over my nails as a guide. The absolute heft of this knife, and thinness of the edge, led to me literally shaving my pointer finger nail off; about half way. 

Sooo, this knife is officially mine now.


----------



## labor of love

dsk said:


> now that im down to just my kipp, i definitely need another gyuto (am I officially a heretic?). im torn between the ckc 240 or going deep and getting a shihan 52100 or aebL. I'm still wishy washy on those craggy KU finishes but its growing on me.


Get both.


----------



## soigne_west

A friendly member here is letting me play with his Shi Han. It’s super nice and I’ll definitely be picking one up. So yeah, get both.


----------



## dsk

labor of love said:


> Get both.





soigne_west said:


> A friendly member here is letting me play with his Shi Han. It’s super nice and I’ll definitely be picking one up. So yeah, get both.



im going OT, but either of you, or anyone, have experience with his aebL?


----------



## soigne_west

The one I’m borrowing is w2, but aebl is great stuff if treated right, which I imagine it would be. I’d personally go for the 52100 but that’s just me. And the KU is pretty nice compared to some.


----------



## labor of love

dsk said:


> im going OT, but either of you, or anyone, have experience with his aebL?


Not yet. I would like to one day.


----------



## dsk

soigne_west said:


> The one I’m borrowing is w2, but aebl is great stuff if treated right, which I imagine it would be. I’d personally go for the 52100 but that’s just me. And the KU is pretty nice compared to some.


Yeah the main draw for me is I love his ku.


----------



## tchan001

How does Shi Han compare with Mazaki?


----------



## M1k3

tchan001 said:


> How does Shi Han compare with Mazaki?


Shi.han isn't all over the place.


----------



## QCDawg

jacko9 said:


> I got a Mazaki from JNS a 180 Gyuto which I think was W#2 and a 90mm Stainless Petty in Nov. 2018. Petty is really refined but the Gyuto seems like it was "homemade" and wedges in onions and other root product. I would like to get a more recent example of his knives but the price increases might keep them out of my range for a look see knife.


I have that little “pointy petty” too! Bet they won’t be seen again! It’s very cool.


----------



## NO ChoP!

I have a ku 150mm petty and the thinness at the tip is impeccable. I will never use another knife again for silver skin.


----------



## dafox

dsk said:


> now that im down to just my kipp, i definitely need another gyuto (am I officially a heretic?). im torn between the ckc 240 or going deep and getting a shihan 52100 or aebL. I'm still wishy washy on those craggy KU finishes but its growing on me.


One knife? I didn't know that was possible!


----------



## Chicagohawkie




----------



## IronBalloon

dafox said:


> One knife? I didn't know that was possible!


I had one knife once. Then I put it down and picked up another one.


----------



## DoubleJJ

IronBalloon said:


> I had one knife once. Then I put it down and picked up another one.



I did too back about 40 years ago...


----------



## kingdingelling

kingdingelling said:


> Ordered a Migaki in 210 mm from cleancut yesterday. Really looking forward to it. I'm a little confused because of the handle. The description says ho-wood, some pictures showing keyaki I think...we will see



Here it is. By far the most serious 210er I’ve hold in my hands until now. Nice weight and taper. Feels as if it wants to play in the 240+ range. Really like it. Nice finish but right above the edge little to much low grit scratches for me and only machine kasumi. Came with ho-wood handle as suposed. But I worked on this 














New handle + new kasumi


----------



## tostadas

kingdingelling said:


> Here it is. By far the most serious 210er I’ve hold in my hands until now. Nice weight and taper. Feels as if it wants to play in the 240+ range. Really like it. Nice finish but right above the edge little to much low grit scratches for me and only machine kasumi. Came with ho-wood handle as suposed. But I worked on this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New handle + new kasumi



Did you do that kasumi yourself?


----------



## kingdingelling

tostadas said:


> Did you do that kasumi yourself?



Yes, first a soft and really muddy Hakka and finished with medium Uchigumori fingerstones. Still not perfect but didn't want to remove that much material.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Not sure if anyone posted this, but its interesting watching the Grasshopper at work


----------



## Twotimehojo

Can anyone comment on the latest batch of Mizaki 210mm gyutos offered on Cko with respect to grind, consistency? Has anyone purchased a 210 in the last few months or so?


----------



## dafox

After almost 2 months of being held hostage in Chicago customs, I recived this knife today. Bought on BST. 








Naoki Mazaki


Naoki Mazaki A quiet pleasant "renegade" young maker trained by Yoshikane and currently undergoing further training with Kiyoshi Kato~san of Sanjo after touring whole of Japan on his restored late...



www.razorsharp.com.sg








Mazaki SS clad W#2 core 210mm gyuto
Length: 215mm
Height: 50mm
Spine at heel: 4.6mm
Spine halfway: 2.0
Spine 1cm from tip: 1.12
Weight: 167gm
This is the heaviest weight and tallest knife I've had so far,
I like it!


----------



## Vancouversam

This one came in the other day. By far sharpest mazaki I have owned right out of the box. Blue 1 Mazaki


----------



## sidey

Madidazaki?


----------



## RockyBasel

Vancouversam said:


> This one came in the other day. By far sharpest mazaki I have owned right out of the box. Blue 1 Mazaki View attachment 84902
> View attachment 84903
> View attachment 84904



glad You got it, I bought it at K&S and then they cancelled my order saying I had not bought a mazaki before from them - I had bought other’$600 knife (Gihei ZDP) but no Mazaki. So without offering me any alternative, they refunded my money and cancelled my order.

Let me know how you like it. It’s a sanamai -

I was ticked off, so to drown my knife blues, I bought 2 sanmai forged knives from Heiji - 250 mm Gyuto carbon 245 gm sharpened on natural stones - the knife is amazing. It may well be one of the sharpest knives, perhaps even more so than my Toyoma.

I posted some pics and I love it. And then, to fully recover from a jarring knife purchase experience, I also got a Heiji Carbon 180mm Nakiri - sanami forged too. Not sure if I will go back to K&S

yet to receive the Nakiri

would love to hear your opinions on this Blue Mazaki - as it’s the one that got away!


----------



## Robert Lavacca

I kind of don’t blame james at k&s. A lot of guys have been trying to get those blue mazaki and the dammy mazaki. He only had two so he wanted it to go to customers of his that had purchased mazaki from him before. I thought about it. Already have a blue 2. Plus I feel like the finish on the blade didn’t really blow me away. More of a basic handle fan.
Lately i’m trying to tame myself. If something comes up and I can buy it, great. If i’m too slow etc, it’s all good. Others will pop up man.


----------



## RockyBasel

Robert Lavacca said:


> I kind of don’t blame james at k&s. A lot of guys have been trying to get those blue mazaki and the dammy mazaki. He only had two so he wanted it to go to customers of his that had purchased mazaki from him before. I thought about it. Already have a blue 2. Plus I feel like the finish on the blade didn’t really blow me away. More of a basic handle fan.
> Lately i’m trying to tame myself. If something comes up and I can buy it, great. If i’m too slow etc, it’s all good. Others will pop up man.



I hear you and I would have been happy to have bought a second mazaki to meet his rule

but thanks for your perspective, I do appreciate it.
Bright side - now I have an amazing Heiji and the blue steels will be back some day


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Didn’t Jame make it clear on the page of that blue 1 that it’s for past Mazaki buyer only?

“
Due to the rarity of such knives. These knvies are limited to 1 knife per customer, and who have purchased Mazaki knives from K&S before (past order # required). 
“


----------



## RockyBasel

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Didn’t Jame make it clear on the page of that blue 1 that it’s for past Mazaki buyer only?
> 
> “
> Due to the rarity of such knives. These knvies are limited to 1 knife per customer, and who have purchased Mazaki knives from K&S before (past order # required).
> 
> 
> 
> “




Wish it were that simple - I had been in contact with Aron to buy the blue, he said he would let me know when they will come in. No mention of previous purchase requirement. would have gladly bought a knife in advance - I fact I just did buy a Mazaki from Craig at Carbon - largely because now I won’t buy from K&S 

But look, all good here - my problem is I want the knife I want, when I want it. And I detest bureaucratic rules that favor some and not others. Equal treatment I say.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

RockyBasel said:


> I hear you and I would have been happy to have bought a second mazaki to meet his rule
> 
> but thanks for your perspective, I do appreciate it.
> Bright side - now I have an amazing Heiji and the blue steels will be back some day


Those heiji’s sound awesome man. Sounds like a nice score to me!


----------



## RockyBasel

Robert Lavacca said:


> Those heiji’s sound awesome man. Sounds like a nice score to me!



very pleased. Glad how things turned out - heiji’s fit, finish, and sharpness is 2 notches above Mazaki IMHO

The only thing is when I put that Carbon Heiji to use today, there was a bit of a stink after I cut the tomatoes. I read about smells on this forum, but was strange to experience it. had this metallic, mineral-like smell. I do hope it goes away. After the smell, patina formed instantly


----------



## Jville

Robert Lavacca said:


> I kind of don’t blame james at k&s. A lot of guys have been trying to get those blue mazaki and the dammy mazaki. He only had two so he wanted it to go to customers of his that had purchased mazaki from him before. I thought about it. Already have a blue 2. Plus I feel like the finish on the blade didn’t really blow me away. More of a basic handle fan.
> Lately i’m trying to tame myself. If something comes up and I can buy it, great. If i’m too slow etc, it’s all good. Others will pop up man.





RockyBasel said:


> Did these just come in? I didn't think James was going to get any more blue mazakis. That's pretty sweet if he is going to continue to get them.
> 
> very pleased. Glad how things turned out - heiji’s fit, finish, and sharpness is 2 notches above Mazaki IMHO
> 
> The only thing is when I put that Carbon Heiji to use today, there was a bit of a stink after I cut the tomatoes. I read about smells on this forum, but was strange to experience it. had this metallic, mineral-like smell. I do hope it goes away. After the smell, patina formed instantly



That smell the first time is normal. That can happen with semi stainless, nevertheless carbon.


----------



## Jville

Vancouversam said:


> This one came in the other day. By far sharpest mazaki I have owned right out of the box. Blue 1 Mazaki View attachment 84902
> View attachment 84903
> View attachment 84904


Did these just come in? I didn't think James was getting anymore, because of last time. That will be sweet if he's going to get them.


----------



## RockyBasel

Jville said:


> That smell the first time is normal. That can happen with semi stainless, nevertheless carbon.



Ahh - ok, mine is the Carbon Heiji - I have a SS one as well but no smell with that Santoku.

Thanks for letting me know. I presume the smell dissipates over time


----------



## Jville

RockyBasel said:


> Ahh - ok, mine is the Carbon Heiji - I have a SS one as well but no smell with that Santoku.
> 
> Thanks for letting me know. I presume the smell dissipates over time


It will dissipate basically imiedately, after the initial contact and patina forms. It shouldn't do it much if ever. Sometimes after sharpening or if you strip patina. But usually it's just the first time, because it's such a strong initial reaction.


----------



## Vancouversam

RockyBasel said:


> glad You got it, I bought it at K&S and then they cancelled my order saying I had not bought a mazaki before from them - I had bought other’$600 knife (Gihei ZDP) but no Mazaki. So without offering me any alternative, they refunded my money and cancelled my order.
> 
> Let me know how you like it. It’s a sanamai -
> 
> I was ticked off, so to drown my knife blues, I bought 2 sanmai forged knives from Heiji - 250 mm Gyuto carbon 245 gm sharpened on natural stones - the knife is amazing. It may well be one of the sharpest knives, perhaps even more so than my Toyoma.
> 
> I posted some pics and I love it. And then, to fully recover from a jarring knife purchase experience, I also got a Heiji Carbon 180mm Nakiri - sanami forged too. Not sure if I will go back to K&S
> 
> yet to receive the Nakiri
> 
> would love to hear your opinions on this Blue Mazaki - as it’s the one that got away!



Sorry to hear what happened. I was surprised when I saw them in stock (if it wasn't the rule, it would be gone way earlier). I was glad I had the opportunity to pick up this one. I have to say this new batch has thinner grind to it. In term of sharpness, I would say it is close to my blue 2. Here is the shot for comparison. (left blue 2, right blue 1

)


----------



## RockyBasel

Jville said:


> It will dissipate basically imiedately, after the initial contact and patina forms. It shouldn't do it much if ever. Sometimes after sharpening or if you strip patina. But usually it's just the first time, because it's such a strong initial reaction.



great - thanks for letting me know


----------



## RockyBasel

Vancouversam said:


> Sorry to hear what happened. I was surprised when I saw them in stock (if it wasn't the rule, it would be gone way earlier). I was glad I had the opportunity to pick up this one. I have to say this new batch has thinner grind to it. In term of sharpness, I would say it is close to my blue 2. Here is the shot for comparison. (left blue 2, right blue 1
> 
> )View attachment 85024
> View attachment 85025
> 
> View attachment 85026
> View attachment 85028


Beautiful knives


----------



## sidey

Vancouversam said:


> Sorry to hear what happened. I was surprised when I saw them in stock (if it wasn't the rule, it would be gone way earlier). I was glad I had the opportunity to pick up this one. I have to say this new batch has thinner grind to it. In term of sharpness, I would say it is close to my blue 2. Here is the shot for comparison. (left blue 2, right blue 1
> 
> )View attachment 85024
> View attachment 85025
> 
> View attachment 85026
> View attachment 85028



wait, you have 2 blue Mazakii? Congrats sir, that’s an enviable collection


----------



## danemonji

Corradobrit1 said:


> Not sure if anyone posted this, but its interesting watching the Grasshopper at work



I find this one interesting also


----------



## mdreb

New to Mazaki World and trying to keep up with them. Learning who the vendors are but don't know BST or CKo as mentioned in previous posts.
Is the availability really as random as it seems to me?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## sidey

mdreb said:


> New to Mazaki World and trying to keep up with them. Learning who the vendors are but don't know BST or CKo as mentioned in previous posts.
> Is the availability really as random as it seems to me?
> Thanks in advance.



Not really random,not loads of vendors though...
BST is “buy, sell, trade”, classifieds on here; CKC is Carbon Knife Co, Denver. Currently has new stock of the ku versions. 
Cleancut stock some in Europe, Knives & Stones in Aus/US, they’re available in Singapore, someone else can chime in with more stockists.


----------



## Helmore

Knifewear.com, based in Canada, also sells them. They currently don't have any gyutos in stock though.


----------



## mdreb

Thanks for the info I feel this is a slippery slope...


----------



## dsk

mdreb said:


> Thanks for the info I feel this is a slippery slope...


If San Francisco were covered in ice.


----------



## RockyBasel

sidey said:


> Not really random,not loads of vendors though...
> BST is “buy, sell, trade”, classifieds on here; CKC is Carbon Knife Co, Denver. Currently has new stock of the ku versions.
> Cleancut stock some in Europe, Knives & Stones in Aus/US, they’re available in Singapore, someone else can chime in with more stockists.


These are the main ones - carbon knife has new stock and availability


----------



## jwpark

Got the latest batch kurouchi 210 Mazaki from CKC and I have to say I'm impressed. I was a bit worried about the fat spine when ordering the knife, but the spine narrows down considerably before coming out of my fingers on the punch grip. If anything, the fat spine at the start makes the knife more comfortable to hold. 

The grind on this knife is excellent on this knife. Really tall bevels on a tall knife makes cutting everything a breeze. Geometry trumps thinness on this knife. Food sticks minimally to the knife too.

The knife has a speckled semi rough kurouchi finish which I like. The spine and heal are nicely rounded. Hard to compare fit & finish against a Heiji, this knife being ku, but the Heiji I owned didn't have as good if a grind. Overall, great knife at a good price.


----------



## jwpark

Forgot to add, I really like the flat profile of this blade. When the knife hits the cutting board, a large portion of the blade sits flatly on the cutting board. Probably the most of my gyutos.


----------



## RockyBasel

jwpark said:


> Forgot to add, I really like the flat profile of this blade. When the knife hits the cutting board, a large portion of the blade sits flatly on the cutting board. Probably the most of my gyutos.


I just got the 240 mm Gyuto from Craig at CKC. The price is unbeatable. But you have to really watch the tip. The tip barely touched the fawcet when I was cleaning it, and it got bent. Incredible distal taper. I could straighten it with my fingers - it’s really thin and delicate - unlike the rest of knife. I posted pics when it came last week - I think it was 270 or 280 gm or so.

I don’t think it can compare to my Sanmai (3-layer) forged Carbon Heiji sharpened on multiple Japanese natural stones. That knife is so sharp, its unbelievable. But the price points are so different - mazaki half price of the Heiji

so value-wise, mazaki wins hands down.

I also have to be careful I don’t end up drinking the Mazaki hype cool-aid of this forum - that I keep an independent and objective perspective. Right now, mazaki is the golden child on this forum - he can do no wrong! We only see his work through rose tinted lenses

that being said, I love my Mazaki, it’s amazing! It peforms brilliantly, has some emotion to it, an object of substance

but Sanmai Carbon Heiji is 2 notches above. I don’t have unicorn knives, (Shig, Kato, Tatsuo Ikeda, etc.) so for me it’s Togashi, Heiji, Toyoma who seem a cut above the rest

Long live Mazaki!


----------



## ian

RockyBasel said:


> I just got the 240 mm Gyuto from Craig at CKC. The price is unbeatable. But you have to really watch the tip. The tip barely touched the fawcet when I was cleaning it, and it got bent. Incredible distal taper. I could straighten it with my fingers - it’s really thin and delicate - unlike the rest of knife. I posted pics when it came last week - I think it was 270 or 280 gm or so.
> 
> I don’t think it can compare to my Sanmai (3-layer) forged Carbon Heiji sharpened on multiple Japanese natural stones. That knife is so sharp, its unbelievable. But the price points are so different - mazaki half price of the Heiji
> 
> so value-wise, mazaki wins hands down.
> 
> I also have to be careful I don’t end up drinking the Mazaki hype cool-aid of this forum - that I keep an independent and objective perspective. Right now, mazaki is the golden child on this forum - he can do no wrong! We only see his work through rose tinted lenses
> 
> that being said, I love my Mazaki, it’s amazing! It peforms brilliantly, has some emotion to it, an object of substance
> 
> but Sanmai Carbon Heiji is 2 notches above. I don’t have unicorn knives, (Shig, Kato, Tatsuo Ikeda, etc.) so for me it’s Togashi, Heiji, Toyoma who seem a cut above the rest
> 
> Long live Mazaki!



Fwiw, whenever I hear

“This knife is the best because it’s so sharp!”

I think

“This car is the best because it has the most gas in it!”

Sharpness is an ephemeral thing that speaks of the quality of the most recent sharpening and the amount of use the knife has seen since then. It’s not an indication of the knife’s quality, although some knives are easier to sharpen or will retain a good edge longer.

That said, Heiji carbon is freakin awesome and is so easy to sharpen, so I’m not disagreeing with you that Heiji is on another level steelwise. (Though many often complain about the grind.) Personally, I’d be happy if all my knives were from Heiji... he’s the only maker I have two knives from atm. Seems like you’re making some really wise purchases.


----------



## sidey

I’m finding it increasingly difficult to NOT pull the trigger on a 240... shipping and UK duty make it a little too much


----------



## RockyBasel

ian said:


> Fwiw, whenever I hear
> 
> “This knife is the best because it’s so sharp!”
> 
> I think
> 
> “This car is the best because it has the most gas in it!”
> 
> Sharpness is an ephemeral thing that speaks of the quality of the most recent sharpening and the amount of use the knife has seen since then. It’s not an indication of the knife’s quality, although some knives are easier to sharpen or will retain a good edge longer.
> 
> That said, Heiji carbon is freakin awesome and is so easy to sharpen, so I’m not disagreeing with you that Heiji is on another level steelwise. (Though many often complain about the grind.) Personally, I’d be happy if all my knives were from Heiji... he’s the only maker I have two knives from atm. Seems like you’re making some really wise purchases.



Well said! It’s not about sharpness - could not agree more - I have a super sharp Kei Kobayashi, but as you say, the steel of the Heiji is something else.

there is a quality that sometimes is hard to describe - the grind, steel, HT, geometry - the interplay of all of these can create something special that is more than the sum of all of those individual parts


----------



## RockyBasel

sidey said:


> I’m finding it increasingly difficult to NOT pull the trigger on a 240... shipping and UK duty make it a little too much


If they are sold out, then your decision is made for you vs. by you


----------



## sidey

I’ve used that technique in bst a couple of times! It’s still my choice through inactivity...


----------



## DitmasPork

180 Maz Nash petty from Carbon Knife Co came in earlier this week. Gorgeous knife. Stoked!


----------



## Mikeadunne

DitmasPork said:


> 180 Maz Nash petty from Carbon Knife Co came in earlier this week. Gorgeous knife. Stoked!
> 
> View attachment 85320
> 
> View attachment 85321
> 
> View attachment 85322


Just got this one too and I love it!


----------



## lemeneid

DitmasPork said:


> 180 Maz Nash petty from Carbon Knife Co came in earlier this week. Gorgeous knife. Stoked!
> 
> View attachment 85320
> 
> View attachment 85321
> 
> View attachment 85322


I see you finally got yourself a Hasegawa


----------



## jacko9

I have to comment on the love for KU knives. These blades require much less work from the blacksmith so why isn't the price reduced to reflect this reduced labor?


----------



## dsk

jacko9 said:


> I have to comment on the love for KU knives. These blades require much less work from the blacksmith so why isn't the price reduced to reflect this reduced labor?


They were at one point, there was like a 5 to 10% difference between kasumi/ku but I guess it just is what it is now


----------



## labor of love

jacko9 said:


> I have to comment on the love for KU knives. These blades require much less work from the blacksmith so why isn't the price reduced to reflect this reduced labor?


Mazaki KU offerings from carbon are cheaper.
Where is this not a thing?


----------



## Barmoley

ian said:


> Fwiw, whenever I hear
> 
> “This knife is the best because it’s so sharp!”
> 
> I think
> 
> “This car is the best because it has the most gas in it!”
> 
> Sharpness is an ephemeral thing that speaks of the quality of the most recent sharpening and the amount of use the knife has seen since then. It’s not an indication of the knife’s quality, although some knives are easier to sharpen or will retain a good edge longer.
> 
> That said, Heiji carbon is freakin awesome and is so easy to sharpen, so I’m not disagreeing with you that Heiji is on another level steelwise. (Though many often complain about the grind.) Personally, I’d be happy if all my knives were from Heiji... he’s the only maker I have two knives from atm. Seems like you’re making some really wise purchases.


I feel the same way when people show how the knife cuts toilet paper or whatever and claim how great the knife is. Shows the skill of the sharpener for sure, but has nothing to do with the knife.


----------



## big D

Has anyone used the 270 Sujihiki? One has a 3mm spine out of the handle and new ones running around 5mm. Use it mostly for cooked meat....preference?
D.


----------



## Jville

jacko9 said:


> I have to comment on the love for KU knives. These blades require much less work from the blacksmith so why isn't the price reduced to reflect this reduced labor?


They were/are cheaper is what I was tracking.


----------



## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Mazaki KU offerings from carbon are cheaper.
> Where is this not a thing?


I think the comment is influenced by Mazaki's Sensei, Kato. Kato Ku commands more on the secondary market. Supply and demand thing.

But I did read somewhere that there was more work involved to get a proper genuine forge formed Kurouchi. Its not as simple as skipping the blade face grinding stage. TF refers to it as requiring multiple rounds of 'pickling' at low temp leading to their signature smooth satin finish on the Denka. There is also a matt Ku finish on their soft iron clad blades eg Morihei Hisamoto, which seems to have about the same durability with a little more drag. I can also see more work in the forging process as the maker can't grind away metal to get the desired distal taper and geometry.


----------



## Twigg

I too was able to snag a Mazaki 180 petty from CKC. I have only used it to trim some raw chicken and deal with garlic and shallots in the past week. I feel that it is a good all around & useful utility knife. It has a great distal taper and I like its overall feel. Having said that, I would not buy it if I had to do it over. This is my first knife with a nashiji kurouchi finish and I do not like it. My dislike is mostly aesthetic and not functionally related.


----------



## DitmasPork

Finally got around to doing a Maz family portrait. Top to bottom: 240 gyuto, JNS, bullnose; 215 gyuto, cleancut; 180 petty, Carbon knife co, nash; 180 petty, lefty d-handle, JNS. My fave is the 240 bullnose profile.


----------



## tchan001

Mazaki 210mm Aogami 2 damascus from KTH Hong Kong.


----------



## RockyBasel

So this is the most expensive Mazaki out there - the 240 at Knifewear sold for the same price as a Shigefusa Kitaeji that I landed (unbelievably) last week 

I just could not justify paying the Shig price for a Mazaki. Maybe I was wrong. Would love to hear about your experience with this one

What is the weight and specs?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

No, this is not the most expensive Mazaki. The Aogami 1 damascus version is even more expensive.


----------



## RockyBasel

Yes, stand corrected, one of the most expensive mazaki’s would have been more appropriate. The 240 Gyuto on KTH is USd 2,100. That sort of illustrates my point


----------



## josemartinlopez

The Mazaki Lord must comment! @preizzo


----------



## josemartinlopez

@tchan001 you take such lovely pics, they are better than store pics! Love the handle too.


----------



## tchan001

Mazaki 210 damascus data from KTH Facebook post. Weight was measured by myself.

Weight: 203g
Hardness: ~HRC65
Blade length: 215mm
Blade height: 49mm
Spine thickness: 6mm down to 1mm

According to KTH, these damascus knives are truly 100% hand-forged by Naoki Mazaki alone, and each batch can only produce 6 pieces! So the low output seems to contribute to it's rarity and pricing.


----------



## RockyBasel

Great specs - very Mazaki, strong distal taper, a knife with some substance and heft 

I know some on the forum say “meh”zaki, but his KU line at CKC is the best value for money. I used it over the weekend, and it performed really well. Really impressed. I think he is getting better each year.

Would love to see how this one compares with knives of similar price ranges


----------



## josemartinlopez

Flying hog monkeys!





__





Just a few good friends of tchan001


I'm starting this thread to display my collection. Hope you guys like it.




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


----------



## RockyBasel

josemartinlopez said:


> Flying hog monkeys!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a few good friends of tchan001
> 
> 
> I'm starting this thread to display my collection. Hope you guys like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com



I am literally drooling


----------



## preizzo

josemartinlopez said:


> The Mazaki Lord must comment! @preizzo



My 240 is 54 tall ,245 length,0.6 mm thick


----------



## josemartinlopez

I suspect he means 240 blue #1...


----------



## tchan001

You need to confirm whether the 240 is blue #1 or blue #2. Seems to come in both versions. The recent 240mm from KTH HK is Blue #1 but there is another Blue #2 elsewhere.


----------



## josemartinlopez

I think Knives and Stones Sydney had both.


----------



## JoBone

From what Has been relayed to me. His process of making the Damascus knives is very similar to Hinoura’s. He takes his time and makes just a few each batch.

The available models are:
B2 210, 240 Gyuto and 270 Sugi
B1 240, 270 Gyuto, 300 Sugi and 300 yanagi

KTH requested the B1s, and they got the first batch. Personally, I would love to see a 180 petty or Nakiri.


----------



## Gregmega

josemartinlopez said:


> Flying hog monkeys!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a few good friends of tchan001
> 
> 
> I'm starting this thread to display my collection. Hope you guys like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitchenknifeforums.com


It’s a rough day when the shig kiteagi is the beater on the block. Lord have mercy on us all.


----------



## bigthyme

How does the kasumi gyuto compare to the newer CKC KU version?


----------



## RockyBasel

JoBone said:


> From what Has been relayed to me. His process of making the Damascus knives is very similar to Hinoura’s. He takes his time and makes just a few each batch.
> 
> The available models are:
> B2 210, 240 Gyuto and 270 Sugi
> B1 240, 270 Gyuto, 300 Sugi and 300 yanagi
> 
> KTH requested the B1s, and they got the first batch. Personally, I would love to see a 180 petty or Nakiri.


the KTH Damascus Gyuto is on sale for $2,100. This is $700 more than my 210 mm Shigefusa Kitaeji that I got yesterday. I cannot compute this. Just don’t understand his pricing. I paid 280 for a Mazaki KU gyuto from CKC, but 2,100 for a blue Damascus? I can’t justify it. I got my Toyama 270 mm Blue Damascus for $1,000 so that’s my reference point - maybe Mazaki is worth more that a Shig - this forum will have to convince me


----------



## tchan001

Is Toyama Damascus 100% forged by Toyama? I don't know the answer. Just asking.


----------



## RockyBasel

Yes he does indeed. Perpetual rumor mill on this forum has it that he also forges some Watanabe Pro knives


----------



## Twigg

Starting to wonder what a Jiro Damascus will cost at its debut.


----------



## M1k3




----------



## tchan001

Twigg said:


> Starting to wonder what a Jiro Damascus will cost at its debut.


Probably will cost you the equivalent of a Maumasi by the time he gets around to it.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Twigg said:


> Starting to wonder what a Jiro Damascus will cost at its debut.


You know it's coming......

Call Hitohira and reserve now.


----------



## cotedupy

DitmasPork said:


> Finally got around to doing a Maz family portrait. Top to bottom: 240 gyuto, JNS, bullnose; 215 gyuto, cleancut; 180 petty, Carbon knife co, nash; 180 petty, lefty d-handle, JNS. My fave is the 240 bullnose profile.
> 
> View attachment 86690



Handle on the 215 gyuto is rather nice! Do you know what wood it is?


----------



## RockyBasel

Early bird gets the Jamascus

but seriously - $2K for a Mazaki - I mean, you may as well hit my head and call me shorty

If you had a choice of a $1,500 Shig Kitaeji or a $1,500 Mazascus - what would you pick?


----------



## DitmasPork

cotedupy said:


> Handle on the 215 gyuto is rather nice! Do you know what wood it is?


It's keyaki wood.


----------



## Ivar

Mazaki has made (at least) one 390 mm Kasumi Sakimaru Takobiki (sold through JNS), but has he made many other knives larger than 300 mm?


----------



## j22582536

RockyBasel said:


> Early bird gets the Jamascus
> 
> but seriously - $2K for a Mazaki - I mean, you may as well hit my head and call me shorty
> 
> If you had a choice of a $1,500 Shig Kitaeji or a $1,500 Mazascus - what would you pick?



For me personally, the maximum price I’m willing to pay for a Damascus / Kitaeji is 2~2.5 times the price of Kasumi, at least that’s how much shigs cost around. So....unless Mazaki Kasumi is worth more than $1000+....


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> Early bird gets the Jamascus
> 
> but seriously - $2K for a Mazaki - I mean, you may as well hit my head and call me shorty
> 
> If you had a choice of a $1,500 Shig Kitaeji or a $1,500 Mazascus - what would you pick?


Depends on the objective of the buyer and how they’re shaping the collection—for some it’s totally worth 2k. I’ve happily paid over the odds for a knife I really wanted—to me it makes no sense to nickel and dime over something that’s available, that I ‘must have.’ On the flip side, I’ve given away good knives (Mazakis) to people for practically nothing. For me, the financial sting of paying a bunch for a knife subsides over time.

It’s just money.


----------



## bahamaroot

I guess those $250 kasumi knives he was making a couple years ago were just training knives. Nothing like the stuff he puts out now.


----------



## RockyBasel

Even the Kato and Shig knives, took a while to get to the 1K price point. I look back at forum chatter say 5 years ago - people were buying shigs and Kato at reasonable prices. Today, a Shig Kasumi 150 petty sold on JNS for $320.

I think it took those knives several years to cross 1,000. Mazaki is there in 2 years. That’s what amazes me and people are buying them - to each his/her own, perhaps they own several CM’s too


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> Even the Kato and Shig knives, took a while to get to the 1K price point. I look back at forum chatter say 5 years ago - people were buying shigs and Kato at reasonable prices. Today, a Shig Kasumi 150 petty sold on JNS for $320.
> 
> I think it took those knives several years to cross 1,000. Mazaki is there in 2 years. That’s what amazes me and people are buying them - to each his/her own, perhaps they own several CM’s too



I bought my Kato for $500–$550 new.

Very different market context today. The Maz dammies sold quickly—which means they were priced appropriately.


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> I bought my Kato for $500–$550 new.
> 
> Very different market context today. The Maz dammies sold quickly—which means they were priced appropriately.



You are absolutely right - supply and demand - nothing speaks more clearly than that


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> You are absolutely right - supply and demand - nothing speaks more clearly than that



I've a friend that bought a dammy blue when it first came out. Personally, top-dollar Mazs are not in my wheelhouse, so I'd never pay 1k+ for a Mazaki. I've bought four Mazakis so far, biggest attraction for me is that most are well performing, bang-for-buck knives. If I had 2k to burn, it wouldn't be Mazaki.


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> I've a friend that bought a dammy blue when it first came out. Personally, top-dollar Mazs are not in my wheelhouse, so I'd never pay 1k+ for a Mazaki. I've bought four Mazakis so far, biggest attraction for me is that most are well performing, bang-for-buck knives. If I had 2k to burn, it wouldn't be Mazaki.



My sentiments exactly. I have the 240 Gyuto from CKC - paid less than 300. Good worker bee and no conplaints.


----------



## DitmasPork

RockyBasel said:


> My sentiments exactly. I have the 240 Gyuto from CKC - paid less than 300. Good worker bee and no conplaints.


Gotta say, I was really tempted by the last batch of Maz Nashiji at Carbon.


----------



## RockyBasel

DitmasPork said:


> Gotta say, I was really tempted by the last batch of Maz Nashiji at Carbon.



Almost got the 270, but I felt he was still honing his style and quality, so I waited for the 2020 batch and for a KU - 280 for the 240mm they still have the 270 in KU


----------



## Runner_up

DitmasPork said:


> Gotta say, I was really tempted by the last batch of Maz Nashiji at Carbon.



I picked one up and happy I did. I've had/sold a few of his earlier knives and wow is he getting better. My 240 from CKC is great - real nice profile, authoritative feeling on board, nice grind and taper in the spine.


----------



## tchan001

What can we say about the guy spending 1,400K for unobtanium thinking 2K for a Maz is expensive.


RockyBasel said:


> So, was ready to pull trigger on Denka, but then saw unobtanium online and pulled trigger impulsively and spent 1,400K how stupid is that.


----------



## Ivar

390 mm. Sorry for bad lighting. Bought June, 2018. What would the price be today, you think? NOT selling...


----------



## Gregmega

RockyBasel said:


> Early bird gets the Jamascus
> 
> but seriously - $2K for a Mazaki - I mean, you may as well hit my head and call me shorty
> 
> If you had a choice of a $1,500 Shig Kitaeji or a $1,500 Mazascus - what would you pick?


Honestly a Maz. Comparatively a Shig Kitaegi is far easier to find.


----------



## Gregmega

DitmasPork said:


> I've a friend that bought a dammy blue when it first came out. Personally, top-dollar Mazs are not in my wheelhouse, so I'd never pay 1k+ for a Mazaki. I've bought four Mazakis so far, biggest attraction for me is that most are well performing, bang-for-buck knives. If I had 2k to burn, it wouldn't be Mazaki.


But he’s a visionary. He’s always seen what’s going to be important rare or impossible to find waaaayyyyyy before anyone else sees it. He now has all three in a sweep.


----------



## RockyBasel

tchan001 said:


> What can we say about the guy spending 1,400K for unobtanium thinking 2K for a Maz is expensive.



Profligate? Wastrel? Collector? Misguided? Wise? All of the above? None of the above?


----------



## JoBone

I’ve had some discussions about the price of these knives with my contact in Japan. The reason they are priced this high is a combination of labor and costs. Hand forging the damascus it both time consuming and costly. Additional, the knives are sharpened and polished to a much higher degree than his other knives. There is also a bit of pride in making a line like this, putting everything he can into producing the best knife possible.

He also relayed a story from one of the other greats from Sanjo with 45 years of experience who was producing a 300 sujihiki this summer. Three attempts resulted in a broken blade. So the time, effort and cost for all that Damascus was gone. (I’m now wondering if that’s how I got my petty)

If you want a blacksmith to produce something of this quality, you need to be willing to pay for it.


----------



## DitmasPork

Gregmega said:


> But he’s a visionary. He’s always seen what’s going to be important rare or impossible to find waaaayyyyyy before anyone else sees it. He now has all three in a sweep.



Exactly!

That’s what I meant yesterday when I said:
“Depends on the objective of the buyer and how they’re shaping the collection—for some it’s totally worth 2k.”

He’s got a very astute collector‘s eye, hardworking and smart buyer, amassing a remarkable collection.

For his objectives, he’s spent wisely without a doubt.


----------



## RockyBasel

Oh lord, let me resist temptation and not spend $2K on a Mazaki Damascus. upon hearing some very sound perspectives. I am not convinced yet, but am definitely more open minded.

But first I wanted to get a Denka - I have tracked down the model - 280gm one. I am ready to dish out the dollars - and it’s half price of Mazaki - that Mazaki has to be something Uber special indeed to justify the demand-price equilibrium that has been realized. Economics speaks the loudest. My protestations notwithstanding 

Who knows what the post-Denka, post-Shig, maybe mazascus will the next thing for me!!!


----------



## daveb

RockyBasel said:


> I know some on the forum say “meh”zaki,



Not seen that before. But will.


----------



## DitmasPork

daveb said:


> Not seen that before. But will.


I’m a big Maz fan. Have a friend that isn’t, he calls them ‘Shitzaki.’


----------



## Twigg

DitmasPork said:


> Gotta say, I was really tempted by the last batch of Maz Nashiji at Carbon.


I picked up a 180 petty earlier this summer from that batch. It is a great petty and I am glad I got it. I can't say that I would want one of gyutos. The only thing I dislike is the KU Nashiji finish.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

You guys are making me want a Mazaki now. Is there any difference in performance between Mazacci white 2 and TF white 1?


----------



## Corradobrit1

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> You guys are making me want a Mazaki now. Is there any difference in performance between Mazacci white 2 and white 1?


Don't think he works with W#1.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Corradobrit1 said:


> Don't think he works with W#1.



oops, ate a word. edited

Maybe I should make a Mazaki KU/Kasumi vs TF Nashiji/Maboroshi thread...


----------



## IsoJ

I like Mazakis a lot, tried a few and settled in one KU from CK. Best bang for bucks under 300 with Kochi in my knives at the moment. Kasumi from K&S last year had a little hatchet vibes to it with ebony handle but was okei. I would have propably keeped it and thin it a little if it werent that handle. Would I buy dammy, for sure if would decide to let go several other knives and start collecting Mazakis.


----------



## nwshull

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> oops, ate a word. edited
> 
> Maybe I should make a Mazaki KU/Kasumi vs TF Nashiji/Maboroshi thread...


I got both a 240 TF Nashiji and a oversized 210 KU Yoshihiro Mazaki for my birthday 2 years ago. So I feel I have a pretty good vantage for comparing them out of box and their progression, the TF steel held an edge significantly better, the Mazaki had a overall better grind though, that I still appreciate to this day, whereas I ended up paying for a professional to do serious thinning on the TF


----------



## Runner_up

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> You guys are making me want a Mazaki now. Is there any difference in performance between Mazacci white 2 and TF white 1?



Not even playing in the same league, if I'm being honest. TF white #1 is top shelf.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

These replies are interesting and I want to hear more, so I started a thread  Thanks @Runner_up and @nwshull for the replies


----------



## pgugger

All the hype has me curious about Mazaki knives, but there are enough inconsistencies and naysayers that I haven't gone through with purchasing one. What's the verdict on the 2020 kasumi versus kurouchi nashiji? From trying to read through this enormous thread, it sounds like maybe the kasumi is more prone to wedging, and the profile of the kuro nashiji is a little longer and more pointy. For those that have used one or both of these, do you think one is clearly the better choice, or what are important differences/pros and cons?

Then there is the question of whether Mazaki is worth it at this time in general. Seems like there is so much change batch to batch that maybe he hasn't yet hit his stride... maybe I should wait till next year or beyond. Any thoughts are appreciated. 

I am considering one of the K&S 240 mm W#2 versions at the moment. Seems like the main complaint about these, at least for some people, is dislike of ebony handles, which is not an issue for me unless it makes the balance point awkward.

Apologies if any of this has been hashed out in this thread already and I missed it...


----------



## josemartinlopez

You should read the thread. I think they are generally well regarded but some hardcore fans have bought multiple knives to experience the differences in each batch to find the version they like.


----------



## Kristoffer

Seems to me one should get in before they’ve all reached Jiro-rates. 

Joking aside though, I’m not so sure about inconsistencies? No doubt they’ve evolved a lot batch to batch, but it seems to me from reading on here that they are more or less consistent within batches. Also, haven’t most been rated as good to stellar value (except that upswung JNS batch)? Maybe @preizzo can comment?

To add anything other than pure speculation, I would suggest trying to find one with a lighter wood handle. The K&S handle one I got to borrow (big thanks to @preizzo!) was a lovely blade, but the handle shifted the balance a bit too far back for my taste. My 2019 CC version with a keyaki handle is balanced right at the pinch or possibly a hair forward. Nice enough handle other than that though if the balance point doesn’t bother you.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I like keyaki handle much more than ebony for it being lighter and more grippy. I think the difference is more from batch to batch and within a batch Ku and Kasumi would have similar grind and profile. Tbh none of the Mazaki choil shots from 2020 batches has impressed so far.


----------



## DitmasPork

pgugger said:


> All the hype has me curious about Mazaki knives, but there are enough inconsistencies and naysayers that I haven't gone through with purchasing one. What's the verdict on the 2020 kasumi versus kurouchi nashiji? From trying to read through this enormous thread, it sounds like maybe the kasumi is more prone to wedging, and the profile of the kuro nashiji is a little longer and more pointy. For those that have used one or both of these, do you think one is clearly the better choice, or what are important differences/pros and cons?
> 
> Then there is the question of whether Mazaki is worth it at this time in general. Seems like there is so much change batch to batch that maybe he hasn't yet hit his stride... maybe I should wait till next year or beyond. Any thoughts are appreciated.
> 
> I am considering one of the K&S 240 mm W#2 versions at the moment. Seems like the main complaint about these, at least for some people, is dislike of ebony handles, which is not an issue for me unless it makes the balance point awkward.
> 
> Apologies if any of this has been hashed out in this thread already and I missed it...


I’ve bought 4 Maz over the last few years from different vendors, I think the differences in batch is magnified—they are still distinctly Maz—champ of bang-for-buck IMO. I hate ebony, and a big fan of his nashiji. If I were buying another, it would be the nashiji from Carbon.


----------



## josemartinlopez

btw, doesn't affect performance at all but is it true his KU finish easily rubs off, even on your magnetic block?


----------



## pgugger

Thanks for all the responses so far everyone!



Kristoffer said:


> Seems to me one should get in before they’ve all reached Jiro-rates.



Haha, seriously.



Kristoffer said:


> Joking aside though, I’m not so sure about inconsistencies? No doubt they’ve evolved a lot batch to batch, but it seems to me from reading on here that they are more or less consistent within batches. Also, haven’t most been rated as good to stellar value (except that upswung JNS batch)? Maybe @preizzo can comment?



Yes, sorry, by "inconsistencies" I mostly meant batch to batch variation. I agree that many seem to say they are good value. I guess my main question is about how the kuro nashiji and kasumi compare. Other than finish, are they consistently different from each other in important ways in the 2020 batches, or are they basically the same knife with different finishes? 



Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think the difference is more from batch to batch and within a batch Ku and Kasumi would have similar grind and profile. Tbh none of the Mazaki choil shots from 2020 batches has impressed so far.



So 2020 KU and kasumi are essentially the same knife with different finishes then?



DitmasPork said:


> I’ve bought 4 Maz over the last few years from different vendors, I think the differences in batch is magnified—they are still distinctly Maz—champ of bang-for-buck IMO. I hate ebony, and a big fan of his nashiji. If I were buying another, it would be the nashiji from Carbon.



Is your preference for nashiji just the look or does it have a different profile, grind, balance, etc. compared to the kasumi?


----------



## josemartinlopez

Paging Mazaki Lord @preizzo


----------



## preizzo

The


pgugger said:


> Thanks for all the responses so far everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, sorry, by "inconsistencies" I mostly meant batch to batch variation. I agree that many seem to say they are good value. I guess my main question is about how the kuro nashiji and kasumi compare. Other than finish, are they consistently different from each other in important ways in the 2020 batches, or are they basically the same knife with different finishes?
> 
> 
> 
> So 2020 KU and kasumi are essentially the same knife with different finishes then?
> 
> 
> 
> Is your preference for nashiji just the look or does it have a different profile, grind, balance, etc. compared to the kasumi?


Hi man
The mazaki migaki are generally ground thicker then the kurouchi ones .
Kurouchi are easier to maintain the migaki have a faje


----------



## josemartinlopez

You may as well tell him about the aogami damascus too.


----------



## preizzo

*the migaki have a fake kasumi finish wich is harder to make it nice ,there are lot of scratches under


----------



## preizzo

josemartinlopez said:


> You may as well tell him about the aogami damascus too.


Damascus are the best looking,but the best mazaki I have tried so far is the aogami 1 migaki from jns


----------



## DitmasPork

pgugger said:


> Is your preference for nashiji just the look or does it have a different profile, grind, balance, etc. compared to the kasumi?



Firstly, I am a big kurouchi fan and love the Maz nashiji finish. Of the two 180 pettys, one kasumi the other nashiji, I liked the feel and performance of the latter better—recently got rid of the kasumi. Difference very small TBH.


----------



## RockyBasel

I have the CKC KU 240 - excellent performer - under 300 USD. Distal taper is amazing - tip is really thin - have to watch out. But cuts through everything beautifully and like butter. Tip is great for shallots. I can’t think of a better value -Iove that Sanjo heft in the knife - comes in at 240 or 250 gm. Looks nice - I am
Curious about the Migaki, and will definitely get the new 2020 Migaki’s that shall be coming in soon into retail - have been told that mazaki San is currently developing the new migaki batch


----------



## nwshull

josemartinlopez said:


> btw, doesn't affect performance at all but is it true his KU finish easily rubs off, even on your magnetic block?


Not in my experience. I've had one since 2017 or 18... can't remember, when Yoshihiro first got them, and probably the least fade of any of my finish, I think part of that reason is because the surface is so textured your not going to have a huge amount of surface area. Granted its gone through periods of low use, but the majority of the time its been on a walnut magnetic block. Prior to that it was in a plain cutlery and more bamboo one


----------



## Mikeadunne

DitmasPork said:


> Firstly, I am a big kurouchi fan and love the Maz nashiji finish. Of the two 180 pettys, one kasumi the other nashiji, I liked the feel and performance of the latter better—recently got rid of the kasumi. Difference very small TBH.


I have both and feel the same way, might sell Kasumi soon


----------



## RockyBasel

nwshull said:


> Not



I think his knives are evolving each year and getting better. same may be true for migaki as well - we shall know soon


----------



## Nagakin

I bought a new kasumi off of CKC and I'm
converted, tbh. I wanted this batch after trying a friend's because of the higher tip and have no complaints. Even had mine fitted with a jacket + pants.


----------



## DitmasPork

Mikeadunne said:


> I have both and feel the same way, might sell Kasumi soon


It may perhaps be because my first two Kasumis were from a few years ago, and his skills have improved with the more recent nashijis I've used. Also, think I'm still emotionally scarred from when I traveled to Hawaii with my kasumis—where they quickly got covered in a thin layer of rust in the salty, humid, tropical air.


----------



## CiderBear

IsoJ said:


> I like Mazakis a lot, tried a few and settled in one KU from CK. Best bang for bucks under 300 with Kochi in my knives at the moment. Kasumi from K&S last year had a little hatchet vibes to it with ebony handle but was okei. I would have propably keeped it and thin it a little if it werent that handle. Would I buy dammy, for sure if would decide to let go several other knives and start collecting Mazakis.



Best bang for the bucks under 300 is Heiji, my friend.


----------



## Nagakin

CiderBear said:


> Best bang for the bucks under 300 is Heiji, my friend.


Depends on what you're doing. My time with Heiji was very limited, but I felt like it only did great at what it excelled at and struggled at what it didn't. All-rounders still hold much higher value to me during shift.


----------



## M1k3

Nagakin said:


> Depends on what you're doing. My time with Heiji was very limited, but I felt like it only did great at what it excelled at and struggled at what it didn't. All-rounders still hold much higher value to me during shift.


Yoshikane would be a good choice also, unless you don't like the flat profile.


----------



## Nagakin

M1k3 said:


> Yoshikane would be a good choice also, unless you don't like the flat profile.


I've always been interested, but didn't want to do the research between lines at the time and decided to try Wakui. If you have a recommendation though I'll keep an eye out if a deal pops up in BST or elsewhere.


----------



## IsoJ

CiderBear said:


> Best bang for the bucks under 300 is Heiji, my friend.


Good, looking forward next year then . Btw, where can I get 240 under 300$?


----------



## M1k3

Nagakin said:


> I've always been interested, but didn't want to do the research between lines at the time and decided to try Wakui. If you have a recommendation though I'll keep an eye out if a deal pops up in BST or elsewhere.


Any of them really. Some are a little thicker than others, but not a huge variation. I'd say SKD is probably what they're really known for but any of them, including the Amekiri would be a good choice.


----------



## josemartinlopez

DitmasPork said:


> I'm still emotionally scarred from when I traveled to Hawaii with my kasumis—where they quickly got covered in a thin layer of rust in the salty, humid, tropical air.


This is me and the thought of non stainless in Singapore


----------



## Inosuke Hashibira

josemartinlopez said:


> This is me and the thought of non stainless in Singapore


You worry too much. Just dry after use, and make sure its dry before you keep them. If not using for a pro-long period of time, remember to oil them. Using VC paper will help as well. 

All this mazaki talk. Makes me very interested in the blue steel.


----------



## josemartinlopez

I know, I know...


----------



## RockyBasel

CiderBear said:


> Best bang for the bucks under 300 is Heiji, my friend.




Heiji’s are exceptional knives, I have the 240 Gyuto in both Carbon and semi stainless. They are amazing performers and the steel, fit and finish are fantastic.

I would put them above Mazaki any day and right up there at parity with Toyama, etc. Agree completely- if you look at this forum under best Japanese active makers of knives today - Heiji is mentioned as one of the top.

but I don’t think you can get them under 300. A Gyuto will be more like 400+ I think a 210 Gyuto will be more like 350 or so.


----------



## DitmasPork

josemartinlopez said:


> This is me and the thought of non stainless in Singapore



Many people who don't live in tropical or sub-tropical environs simply can't understand how humid and salty air can get.

My parent's house—where I stay and cook during visits—is less than a mile from the beach, air often very damp and salty, some of my carbons get signs of rust within hours if the wind blowing from the south, even with constant wiping down and drying of knives.

The Mazaki cladding particularly reactive there. I often take a different set of knives each time, there're always carbons in the mix, since I dislike stainless.

Island travel kit. 

52100 carbon has worked very well for me in Hawaii, without major rust issues. Here's what I took for my last trip to Hawaii in January: 225 Tsourkan WH, 52100; 225 Kippington WP, 52100; 240 Gessin Heiji, semi-stainless, suji; 180 Masaki, white 2, petty. The Mazaki by far took the most attention and cleaning.

Heiji's semi-stainless is so perfect for the tropics IMO!


----------



## josemartinlopez

Got it. Stupid question but why is 52100 less reactive?


----------



## DitmasPork

josemartinlopez said:


> Got it. Stupid question but why is 52100 less reactive?



I'm not a steel nerd, so others can chime in. When I got my Kip 52100, it wasn't reactive at all, it took an hour with a pineapple to finally get a patina. It's one of my fave carbons.


----------



## CiderBear

RockyBasel said:


> Heiji’s are exceptional knives, I have the 240 Gyuto in both Carbon and semi stainless. They are amazing performers and the steel, fit and finish are fantastic.
> 
> I would put them above Mazaki any day and right up there at parity with Toyama, etc. Agree completely- if you look at this forum under best Japanese active makers of knives today - Heiji is mentioned as one of the top.
> 
> but I don’t think you can get them under 300. A Gyuto will be more like 400+ I think a 210 Gyuto will be more like 350 or so.


They're really affordable when you order direct. I think I paid 280-ish for mine.


----------



## RockyBasel

CiderBear said:


> They're really affordable when you order direct. I think I paid 280-ish for mine.


I would love to order direct, but they never respond to me I have tried everything including mailing them direct

but I have 2 Gyuto by them, one SS and love them


----------



## rogue108

josemartinlopez said:


> Got it. Stupid question but why is 52100 less reactive?


Higher Chromium content than most carbon steels


----------



## Robert Lavacca

I wish I had a reason to have an island travel kit


----------



## RockyBasel

Robert Lavacca said:


> I wish I had a reason to have an island travel kit


My thoughts exactly - love it!


----------



## ref

hello can I join the club (ignore the weeds please)


----------



## Xenif

ref said:


> hello can I join the club (ignore the weeds please)



What size is that?


----------



## IronBalloon

ref said:


> hello can I join the club (ignore the weeds please)


Is that a kasumi nakiri?


----------



## ref

Xenif said:


> What size is that?


 
not entirely sure actually, I will measure it tomorrow!


----------



## slickmamba

ref said:


> hello can I join the club (ignore the weeds please)


wowowow


----------



## ref

Xenif said:


> What size is that?



It's 170mm long and 54mm tall at the heel. I would have liked it a tiny bit taller but I am very happy.



IronBalloon said:


> Is that a kasumi nakiri?



kasumi white#2


----------



## preizzo

ref said:


> It's 170mm long and 54mm tall at the heel. I would have liked it a tiny bit taller but I am very happy.
> 
> 
> 
> kasumi white#2


If 54 mm height and 170 mm length nakiri is not tall enough for you then buy a Chinese clever


----------



## ref

preizzo said:


> If 54 mm height and 170 mm length nakiri is not tall enough for you then buy a Chinese clever



hehe, nah I was only thinking a couple of mm. The length is fine! I also haven't used it yet so I'm just putting random various first impressions so it looks like I'm a knife expert.

I have a large cck though but it hurts my wrist after a while.


----------



## Nagakin

ref said:


> I have a large cck though but it hurts my wrist after a while.


I suggest trying a lower counter height like your kitchen table and lifting at the elbow instead of your wrist. If you keep your wrist loose you'll have a natural pushing/rocking motion, which is why so many cleavers have so much belly. That's how the grannies and aunties last all day with one in an Asian squat


----------



## daveb

ref said:


> I also haven't used it yet so I'm just putting random various first impressions so it looks like I'm a knife expert.



We already have that position filled but we'll get back to you if anything changes....


----------



## ModRQC

180/56 was a pretty perfect Nakiri from him. Sold it because I hadn't much use for it in normal everyday life. Good fun during Covid lockout though!


----------



## esoo

daveb said:


> We already have that position filled but we'll get back to you if anything changes....



you've hired JML now?


----------



## Twigg

esoo said:


> you've hired JML now?


He was the obvious choice since he is always on here.


----------



## pgugger

Well, you guys convinced me to look for the Kuro Nashiji from CKC or Yoshihiro, and by luck, I was able to snag a barely used CKC 240 Kuro Nashiji on the BST of another site! Looking forward to trying it out.

But, now you guys have me curious about Heiji... this never ends, haha...



preizzo said:


> The mazaki migaki are generally ground thicker then the kurouchi ones .
> Kurouchi are easier to maintain the migaki have a fake...





DitmasPork said:


> Firstly, I am a big kurouchi fan and love the Maz nashiji finish. Of the two 180 pettys, one kasumi the other nashiji, I liked the feel and performance of the latter better—recently got rid of the kasumi. Difference very small TBH.





RockyBasel said:


> I have the CKC KU 240 - excellent performer - under 300 USD. Distal taper is amazing - tip is really thin - have to watch out. But cuts through everything beautifully and like butter. Tip is great for shallots. I can’t think of a better value -Iove that Sanjo heft in the knife - comes in at 240 or 250 gm. Looks nice - I am
> Curious about the Migaki, and will definitely get the new 2020 Migaki’s that shall be coming in soon into retail - have been told that mazaki San is currently developing the new migaki batch





Mikeadunne said:


> I have both and feel the same way, might sell Kasumi soon





CiderBear said:


> Best bang for the bucks under 300 is Heiji, my friend.





RockyBasel said:


> Heiji’s are exceptional knives, I have the 240 Gyuto in both Carbon and semi stainless. They are amazing performers and the steel, fit and finish are fantastic.
> 
> I would put them above Mazaki any day and right up there at parity with Toyama, etc. Agree completely- if you look at this forum under best Japanese active makers of knives today - Heiji is mentioned as one of the top.


----------



## M1k3

pgugger said:


> Well, you guys convinced me to look for the Kuro Nashiji from CKC or Yoshihiro, and by luck, I was able to snag a barely used CKC 240 Kuro Nashiji on the BST of another site! Looking forward to trying it out.
> 
> But, now you guys have me curious about Heiji... this never ends, haha...


Heiji = great steel, super high flat bevels that like to wedge in dense stuff. But if you put some work into it, they can be great cutters. And Heiji burnt chestnut handles are really nice!


----------



## RockyBasel

M1k3 said:


> Heiji = great steel, super high flat bevels that like to wedge in dense stuff. But if you put some work into it, they can be great cutters. And Heiji burnt chestnut handles are really nice!



very true, but there is some batch variance -i saw some wedging in their Nakiri, but not in their SS Gyuto - an absolutely gorgeous knife, thin really, unlike a heiji at 205 gm. Their carbon Gyuto was 259gm, and still did not wedge too much, but more so than the SS

as you say, the steel is magnificent - beyond compare

here is the pic of the thin SS - Urushi handle


----------



## IronBalloon

ref said:


> hehe, nah I was only thinking a couple of mm. The length is fine! I also haven't used it yet so I'm just putting random various first impressions so it looks like I'm a knife expert.
> 
> I have a large cck though but it hurts my wrist after a while.


How big is the cck? I fancy a big chopper but they seem too big for me, maybe on the heavy side?


----------



## Viggetorr

IronBalloon said:


> How big is the cck? I fancy a big chopper but they seem too big for me, maybe on the heavy side?



The CCK 130X-series is extremly nimble for their size. My 1303 is lighter than my 200mm ZKramer...


----------



## IronBalloon

Viggetorr said:


> The CCK 130X-series is extremly nimble for their size. My 1303 is lighter than my 200mm ZKramer...


Hmm, still pretty tall though? Ugh if they were easier to find in the U.K. I’d probably have caved I bought one by now...


----------



## ref

IronBalloon said:


> How big is the cck? I fancy a big chopper but they seem too big for me, maybe on the heavy side?



~22cm long, 11cm high, and about 420grams for the 1103

it is an experience


----------



## IronBalloon

ref said:


> ~22cm long, 11cm high, and about 420grams for the 1103
> 
> it is an experience


Damn, that is a big boy. I mean I’ll probably end up with one at some point just to try one out. Wouldn’t want to miss out on the experience!


----------



## Viggetorr

IronBalloon said:


> Hmm, still pretty tall though? Ugh if they were easier to find in the U.K. I’d probably have caved I bought one by now...



Tall for sure, and still nowhere near as heavy as the 1103 that ref mentioned. My 1303 weighs in on 270.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

My 1303 is 260 gram FYI. Like what's mentioned above, it feels very light and nimble in the hand.


----------



## DitmasPork

New look Maz.


----------



## Twigg

Kind of reminds me of Tagai Sanjo









https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/609811/files/22447851/image.jpg


----------



## tostadas

Hmm so no more horn ferrule?


----------



## DitmasPork

Twigg said:


> Kind of reminds me of Tagai Sanjo
> 
> View attachment 95776
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops/609811/files/22447851/image.jpg


Yeah, does. Though the Maz looks pointier. Personally, I like his nashiji more.


----------



## Twigg

DitmasPork said:


> Yeah, does. Though the Maz looks pointier. Personally, I like his nashiji more.


I have his nashiji ku from ckc and really like it. I am no fan of ku, but the performance and feel make dealing with the ugliness of the ku acceptable.

Might be the angle of the pic, but it looks like the Maz above has a long flat spot too.


----------



## daveb

We just passed 1800 posts in this thread that has been active for about 1000 days. Still haven't caught up with his knife production


----------



## Twigg

He is an animal. I know I will regret not grabbing one of his gyutos down the road.


----------



## FishmanDE

Did anyone have problems with F&F on their Mazaki? Just received my suji yesterday and there was a low grit scratch pattern along the edge as well was what looked to be stone residue by the tang. There’s also a, what I’m describing as “puddin stain”, on the handle. Any input would be helpful as currently, I’m very displeased.


----------



## M1k3

FishmanDE said:


> Did anyone have problems with F&F on their Mazaki? Just received my suji yesterday and there was a low grit scratch pattern along the edge as well was what looked to be stone residue by the tang. There’s also a, what I’m describing as “puddin stain”, on the handle. Any input would be helpful as currently, I’m very displeased.


Looks like a sloppy handle install. Where did you get it from?


----------



## FishmanDE

M1k3 said:


> Looks like a sloppy handle install. Where did you get it from?



I don’t want to say at this point. I’m reaching out to them today to give them a chance to make this right first. Was more curious as to everyone else’s experience.


----------



## FishmanDE

Everything considered, my theory was it was purchased then returned slightly damaged. Though I sincerely hope that’s not the case as it was sold to me as BNIB


----------



## M1k3

Is that beeswax or the stone residue where the tang goes into the handle? One is sloppiness, the other is no good.


----------



## FishmanDE

M1k3 said:


> Is that beeswax or the stone residue where the tang goes into the handle? One is sloppiness, the other is no good.



its not bees wax. Looks like stone residue. I thought it might’ve been sloppy apoxy, but I was able to wipe one side off


----------



## pgugger

I believe the low grit scratch pattern is normal, as my Kuro Nashiji gyuto has that too. Where the tang enters the handle, mine has a similar powdery residue but much less so. My handle was clean though.


----------



## Twigg

It is Mazaki's special pixie dust. He keeps a small bottle hidden in his scarf and only sprinkles it on his best knives. It makes the knife cut better, but the unfortunate side effect is that due to the power of the dust, the handle will never be straight.

In all seriousness, I hope you are able to get this sorted.


----------



## FishmanDE

I appreciate it y’all! I’m chalking a lot of this up to wabi sabi (perhaps too much) but the handle being “stained” is what’s really getting my goat. Regardless of whether it was a retailer or mazaki’s defect, I feel some type of way that the defect wasn’t outright disclosed prior to purchase considering I had a working correspondence with them. I feel as though a defect of any kind, especially on a knife of this price point, warrants a conversation at the least, if not a price break. This particular defect isn’t an easy fix either considering the tang on these is abnormally large. Am I in the wrong for feeing this way? Apologies if I’m hijacking this thread


----------



## M1k3

FishmanDE said:


> I appreciate it y’all! I’m chalking a lot of this up to wabi sabi (perhaps too much) but the handle being “stained” is what’s really getting my goat. Regardless of whether it was a retailer or mazaki’s defect, I feel some type of way that the defect wasn’t outright disclosed prior to purchase considering I had a working correspondence with them. I feel as though a defect of any kind, especially on a knife of this price point, warrants a conversation at the least, if not a price break. This particular defect isn’t an easy fix either considering the tang on these is abnormally large. Am I in the wrong for feeing this way? Apologies if I’m hijacking this thread


The powdery stuff is what's really bugging me. But my initial reaction to the handle was that someone with dirty/swarf covered hands handled the....handle. Which would make sense if it was sharpened and that is leftover stone grit....


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

FishmanDE said:


> Am I in the wrong for feeing this way?


Definitely not wrong. This stain thing is not wabi sabi. It's simply flawed IMO.


----------



## FishmanDE

M1k3 said:


> The powdery stuff is what's really bugging me. But my initial reaction to the handle was that someone with dirty/swarf covered hands handled the....handle. Which would make sense if it was sharpened and that is leftover stone grit....



so here’s another really weird thing. The stain in question seems to be under the finish. BUT, the texture of that entire panel is completely different that the rest of the handle. Almost as if someone tried to sand it down, and then realized it wasn’t going anywhere, then re-sealed it. I’d buy it was a manufactured defect, I just can’t for the life of me figure out why Mazaki wouldn’t just rehandle it with a good one before letting it out to the world.


----------



## M1k3

FishmanDE said:


> so here’s another really weird thing. The stain in question seems to be under the finish. BUT, the texture of that entire panel is completely different that the rest of the handle. Almost as if someone tried to sand it down, and then realized it wasn’t going anywhere, then re-sealed it. I’d buy it was a manufactured defect, I just can’t for the life of me figure out why Mazaki wouldn’t just rehandle it with a good one before letting it out to the world.


It might not even be Mazaki's doing. Either way, something is off and I'd be in touch with the retailer for a discount or return.


----------



## Twigg

FishmanDE said:


> so here’s another really weird thing. The stain in question seems to be under the finish. BUT, the texture of that entire panel is completely different that the rest of the handle. Almost as if someone tried to sand it down, and then realized it wasn’t going anywhere, then re-sealed it. I’d buy it was a manufactured defect, I just can’t for the life of me figure out why Mazaki wouldn’t just rehandle it with a good one before letting it out to the world.


Is it possible that it is a mineral streak in the wood that didn't accept the finish in the same way as the rest of the handle?


----------



## Corradobrit1

Ho is quite a porous wood and will easily absorb fats and oils if left long enough. Not what I would accept for a BNIB knife.


----------



## FishmanDE

Twigg said:


> Is it possible that it is a mineral streak in the wood that didn't accept the finish in the same way as the rest of the handle?



potentially, but that still wouldn’t explain the stain


----------



## FishmanDE

Corradobrit1 said:


> Ho is quite a porous wood and will easily absorb fats and oils if left long enough. Not what I would accept for a BNIB knife.



it is being sold as magnolia. I don’t know jack about wood though, so ho and magnolia might be similar?


----------



## Corradobrit1

FishmanDE said:


> it is being sold as magnolia. I don’t know jack about wood though, so ho and magnolia might be similar?


Same thing.


----------



## Carl Kotte

I wouldn’t care - but I’m a person of questionable taste. I like my fit and finish really poor. Still, @FishmanDE I hope it gets sorted out without any hassle.


----------



## FishmanDE

Carl Kotte said:


> I wouldn’t care - but I’m a person of questionable taste. I like my fit and finish really poor. Still, @FishmanDE I hope it gets sorted out without any hassle.



Im of the same vein, ask my exes lol. I for sure would’ve stained it eventually. It’s just the principle for me. If I pay for new, I want new.


----------



## Carl Kotte

FishmanDE said:


> Im of the same vein, ask my exes lol. I for sure would’ve stained it eventually. It’s just the principle for me. If I pay for new, I want new.


Yeah, that’s a very reasonable policy! Gogogogo for it!


----------



## josemartinlopez

DitmasPork said:


> New look Maz.



Anyone prefer the old KU finish? I think I do, even if it comes off easily.


----------



## spaceconvoy

yes, I'd rather have the obviously rustic nashiji than whatever sloppiness is under this smooth kurouchi


----------



## Corradobrit1

That new Ku finish has no character.


----------



## Carl Kotte

josemartinlopez said:


> Anyone prefer the old KU finish? I think I do, even if it comes off easily.


As poor as possible is best - new or old.


----------



## ref

I heard a rumour that you may find out what this KU finish is like very soon


----------



## juice

Carl Kotte said:


> but I’m a person of questionable taste


He's not lion


----------



## Jville

Yeah, im not digging the new KU look. It has a cheap feel to it, imho.


----------



## timebard

Jville said:


> Yeah, im not digging the new KU look. It has a cheap feel to it, imho.



Pardon the noob question but can you or other knowledgeable people elaborate on the difference between good and cheap KU finishes? 

The only KU knife I have is a Yoshikane. It's quite a smooth finish (not polished smooth but smoother than, say, nashiji), I'm guessing from blueing or some other artificial process not forge scale. The past Mazakis I've seen have a thicker, flakey-looking KU finish; these newer ones look, like you say, not so nice--smooth with some spots. What's the difference in technique/production between these different KU styles?


----------



## M1k3

timebard said:


> Pardon the noob question but can you or other knowledgeable people elaborate on the difference between good and cheap KU finishes?
> 
> The only KU knife I have is a Yoshikane. It's quite a smooth finish (not polished smooth but smoother than, say, nashiji), I'm guessing from blueing or some other artificial process not forge scale. The past Mazakis I've seen have a thicker, flakey-looking KU finish; these newer ones look, like you say, not so nice--smooth with some spots. What's the difference in technique/production between these different KU styles?


Crappy KU comes off when you look at it slightly wrong, like CCK. Strong KU is tough, like Munetoshi. Looks of the KU is just preference.


----------



## FishmanDE

timebard said:


> Pardon the noob question but can you or other knowledgeable people elaborate on the difference between good and cheap KU finishes?
> 
> The only KU knife I have is a Yoshikane. It's quite a smooth finish (not polished smooth but smoother than, say, nashiji), I'm guessing from blueing or some other artificial process not forge scale. The past Mazakis I've seen have a thicker, flakey-looking KU finish; these newer ones look, like you say, not so nice--smooth with some spots. What's the difference in technique/production between these different KU styles?



legit question. I believe they’re referring to the longevity of the KU


----------



## Corradobrit1

Proper Ku finish doesn't rub off under normal use. A lot of these so-called Kurouchi surfaces are just applied and not formed in the furnace. 
So Faux Ku


----------



## Jville

timebard said:


> Pardon the noob question but can you or other knowledgeable people elaborate on the difference between good and cheap KU finishes?
> 
> The only KU knife I have is a Yoshikane. It's quite a smooth finish (not polished smooth but smoother than, say, nashiji), I'm guessing from blueing or some other artificial process not forge scale. The past Mazakis I've seen have a thicker, flakey-looking KU finish; these newer ones look, like you say, not so nice--smooth with some spots. What's the difference in technique/production between these different KU styles?


It's not that in reality it is necessarily bad or cheap, but it just doesn't jive with me when I look at it. Mazaki has had it's own sort of style with it's KU and it feels like Mazaki to me. This new one just doesn't. It's more an emotional connection, rather than, it necessarily being good or bad. I think Corradorbrit1 says what I'm feeling, when he says"it has no character". Or to me it just doesn't feel like Mazaki's character. It reminds me of hinoura,(maybe a little lighter), which I always liked the way hinoura looked, but it just doesn't seem to jive with me as a Mazaki. Also, I don't like the handle.


----------



## tchan001

Corradobrit1 said:


> So Faux Ku


Almost sounds like you are swearing at someone for not knowing about knives very well.


----------



## FishmanDE

To be fair about the “character” while I love the look of the old KU, it is by no means efficient. If anything, it’s a detriment by creating more friction. Not that I care, I’m still slicing with it


----------



## Jville

Unstoppabo said:


> I admire the optimism! If the man with the the internet's greatest Shig collection doesn't have a direct line to the source, I'd be discouraged. FWIW, Shig santoku's have very flat profiles and I'd describe the standard gyuto profile as pretty flat as well so it sounds like all you need is a 210. 210 santoku's are probably pretty rare but there's gotta be 210 gyutos floating around out there. Maybe not a yo kitaeji but I'd bet a kasumi pops up on BST before a custom order is filled. Good luck with your search!





FishmanDE said:


> To be fair about the “character” while I love the look of the old KU, it is by no means efficient. If anything, it’s a detriment by creating more friction. Not that I care, I’m still slicing with it


Do you feel it helps with food release at all? I only used one Maz KU and it was a while ago.


----------



## tchan001

Maybe Corradobrit1 has started a new KKF meme which will be even more famous than Ciderbear's.


----------



## Corradobrit1

tchan001 said:


> Almost sounds like you are swearing at someone for not knowing about knives very well.


I wouldn't think of such a thing.


----------



## tchan001

Corradobrit1 said:


> I wouldn't think of such a thing.


Freudian slip


----------



## FishmanDE

Jville said:


> Do you feel it helps with food release at all? I only used one Maz KU and it was a while ago.



Honestly, I haven’t used it yet. Just came in yesterday. But I would assume it would help with food release. That said, it would simultaneously create friction. For cooked foods, not a problem. But for raw fish, it might pose a problem in theory? But A) most raw fish comes from cold, so friction from a finish, at absolute worst in an alternate dimension, would bring a thin slice to room temp? I don’t see an issue. B) I work in a commercial environment, so I honestly don’t have the time to look deeply into the effects that may or may not occur


----------



## Carl Kotte

ref said:


> I heard a rumour that you may find out what this KU finish is like very soon


For some reason this scared me. Was ’you’ adressed to me or Someone else?


----------



## Viggetorr

Carl Kotte said:


> For some reason this scared me. Was ’you’ adressed to me or Someone else?



Yep, that was definitely a threat.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Could anyone who has owned both M. Hinoura vs Mazaki compare both of them?

Was looking at nakiris again


----------



## BillHanna

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Was looking at nakiris again


Buy both!


----------



## M1k3

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Could anyone who has owned both M. Hinoura vs Mazaki compare both of them?
> 
> Was looking at nakiris again


You stopped looking at some point? 

Were you thinking of a name change? Usubaknaifuwaifu? Sobakiriknaifuwaifu?


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

M1k3 said:


> You stopped looking at some point?
> 
> Were you thinking of a name change? Usubaknaifuwaifu? Sobakiriknaifuwaifu?



I look for deals on jnats too sometimes 

I was on the lookout for something finer than what I have now so I could get some banding out of my knives, but then a voice from the sky came out and said:

*[][] H I N O U R A [][] M U T S U M I [][] N A K I R I [][]*

So now here I am.


----------



## tchan001

Wonder who would whisper such blasphemy to you on a Mazaki thread.


----------



## BillHanna

@nakiriknaifuwaifu 165 or 180?


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

BillHanna said:


> @nakiriknaifuwaifu 165 or 180?



The voice did not specify, unfortunately. 

I'd like to try a 180mm nakiri, but I don't see any practical advantages over a 150mm or 165mm.


----------



## Carl Kotte

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> The voice did not specify, unfortunately.
> 
> I'd like to try a 180mm nakiri, but I don't see any practical advantages over a 150mm or 165mm.


Have you considered a 192 nakiri? Like this: Shop – Birgersson Blades


----------



## IsoJ

Still waiting for Mazaki to make 210 nakiri


----------



## BillHanna

I will buy this


----------



## Nagakin

Hinoura and Maz are my favorite all-rounders. You actually have to try both. IME, Maz goes through food better, but Hinoura feels more robust. Maz has a more useful tip for my purposes (though, I guess that doesn't apply here...). Length wise, I'd take the longer Hinoura if you go that route for weight reasons. 

FWIW, I picked Maz for my gyuto, but the user experience has me ready for a Hinoura suji any day now. I have only tried Hinoura's AS series.


----------



## ref

Carl Kotte said:


> For some reason this scared me. Was ’you’ adressed to me or Someone else?



You bought one?


----------



## Carl Kotte

ref said:


> You bought one?


Maybe I did?


----------



## daveb

Other than a Wat, the Heiji Nakiri on bst is the best.

Why 180? Cause it's big enough.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

Carl Kotte said:


> Have you considered a 192 nakiri? Like this: Shop – Birgersson Blades



Yeh, was eyeing the 195mm TF Mab too.

My claw grip is not 180mm or 195mm, so I have no idea what the hell I'd be doing swinging that much metal around. I just want a rectangle I can move directly downwards to part the food that I am holding.


----------



## CiderBear

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Could anyone who has owned both M. Hinoura vs Mazaki compare both of them?
> 
> Was looking at nakiris again



Did not own both at the same time, but the KU on my Hinoura was really dark and deep. My 240mm Hinoura ownership was towards the early day of my journeys, but I was pretty neutral on it. It cut well, but between it and a 240mm Wat I will always grab the Wat. My 210mm Mazaki cuts well, but then again between 2 210mm knives, I will always grab my Tsubaya Tanaka. Unfair comparisons, I know, because the Wat & Tanaka are much more expensive than Hinoura/ Mazaki. In their price range, I would give my nods to Kochi/ Wakui/ Heiji direct.



daveb said:


> Other than a Wat, the Heiji Nakiri on bst is the best.
> 
> 
> 
> Why 180? Cause it's big enough.


I want that Heiji so badly you don't even know. If only I didn't decide to go back to school this year


----------



## Robert Lavacca

CiderBear said:


> Did not own both at the same time, but the KU on my Hinoura was really dark and deep. My 240mm Hinoura ownership was towards the early day of my journeys, but I was pretty neutral on it. It cut well, but between it and a 240mm Wat I will always grab the Wat. My 210mm Mazaki cuts well, but then again between 2 210mm knives, I will always grab my Tsubaya Tanaka. Unfair comparisons, I know, because the Wat & Tanaka are much more expensive than Hinoura/ Mazaki. In their price range, I would give my nods to Kochi/ Wakui/ Heiji direct.
> 
> 
> I want that Heiji so badly you don't even know. If only I didn't decide to go back to school this year


An education tops any knife any day!


----------



## juice

Robert Lavacca said:


> An education tops any knife any day!


Yes, even a nakiri


----------



## Barry's Knives

anyone notice mazaki sneaking back onto the JNS homepage?


----------



## jonnachang

Old stock Mazaki suddenly reappear!


----------



## Alder26

Hahaha I wonder which generation they found. If it’s the last one with the bizarre upswept bullnose shape no thank you.


----------



## ref

My inside source can confirm the new KU finish is not like the cheap smooth find you find on cheaper knives, it's textured like very very fine nashiji (I my source has not had many KU knives so far so they cannot really describe it, but it's definitely not going to flake easily).

I can get my source to take some close up pics.


----------



## tchan001

I wish some of the old Mazaki ginsanko would also reappear.


----------



## wsides91

Just got this beauty: 210mm Aogami 2


----------



## RockyBasel

wsides91 said:


> View attachment 97490
> View attachment 97493
> View attachment 97492
> 
> 
> Just got this beauty: 210mm Aogami 2


She is very much a beauty - wow!!!


----------



## RockyBasel

I was able to nab a Mazaki from JNS, did not look like the bull-nose at all. 

Kasumi , F&F looks good in pics, hard to believe it’s “old stock” actually. 

I missed the KU Nakiri by Maz - that was on sale too. Except for the 210 Gyuto, “old stock” vanished as if it were new. The 210’vanished today - in 3 days


----------



## ref

Here are my sources photos (totally not mine)

Here is a closeup of the KU finish, I hope you will be able to "feel" it by looking at the picture. It's textured like ~1000 grit wet and dry. The kanji is faint (in fact, I thought he had forgotten to do the kanji until I turned on the lights!) but there. 50mm at the heel, ~4.5mm spine thickness above heel, ~2.5mm half way down, ~1mm a few cm before the tip. 215mm edge length.

The handle is lovely. Walnut ferrule.


----------



## JoBone

jonnachang said:


> Old stock Mazaki suddenly reappear!


 It’s not old stock, but an old order that was recently filled.


----------



## RockyBasel

Ah, so we are getting the new Mazaki profile - this is good


----------



## daveb

Which new Mazaki profile? Are any two alike?


----------



## RockyBasel

daveb said:


> Which new Mazaki profile? Are any two alike?


Good question - I see your point.

while no two are alike, the new batch generally tends to be flatter and I think quality is improved

I am a bit of a convert now, had my doubts, but his knife is a good performer.
For the price - almost unbeatable


----------



## RockyBasel

Latest Mazaki addition, to those whi missed the lost earlier


----------



## RockyBasel

Blue 1 honsanmai 
268 gm
Heel - 51 mm


----------



## Jville

RockyBasel said:


> Blue 1 honsanmai
> 268 gm
> Heel - 51 mm


Did you just get it from K&S? I dont know about you, but i was super impressed with both of mine on initial look.


----------



## alterwisser

RockyBasel said:


> Blue 1 honsanmai
> 268 gm
> Heel - 51 mm



51? so it’s basically a Suji?!


----------



## josemartinlopez

Jville said:


> Did you just get it from K&S?


K&S box


----------



## RockyBasel

Jville said:


> Did you just get it from K&S? I dont know about you, but i was super impressed with both of mine on initial look.



yes K&Sas correctly observed by JML.

Did you get both of the honsanmai from K&S?

let me know what your first impressions were upon use

I am going to try one of the knives out tonight -don’t know which one - maybe the 258 gm heavier Kono FM blue 1 or perhaps this Mazaki - both have identical weight btw, and both are blue 1

let me know your impressions of the two you have


----------



## RockyBasel

alterwisser said:


> 51? so it’s basically a Suji?!


 these days, yes, that is the vogue


----------



## tchan001

Mazaki Dammy 270 suji spotted in the wild. Press ENG at the top right for English. I bought my Maz dammy gyuto from them previously.





真崎直樹青二鍛地筋引270mm連桐箱 景德行瓷業有限公司 - King Tak Hong Porcelain Co., Ltd.


King Tak Hong Porcelain Co., Ltd. was founded since 1954 and specializes in wholesaling and retailing all sorts of Chinese & Western Porcelain, Glassware, Kitchenware and Houseware to worldwide. With 5-decade experience, our best-quality products are popular among various associations, such as...




www.kingtakhong.com.hk


----------



## IsoJ

tchan001 said:


> Mazaki Dammy 270 suji spotted in the wild. Press ENG at the top right for English. I bought my Maz dammy gyuto from them previously.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 真崎直樹青二鍛地筋引270mm連桐箱 景德行瓷業有限公司 - King Tak Hong Porcelain Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> King Tak Hong Porcelain Co., Ltd. was founded since 1954 and specializes in wholesaling and retailing all sorts of Chinese & Western Porcelain, Glassware, Kitchenware and Houseware to worldwide. With 5-decade experience, our best-quality products are popular among various associations, such as...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kingtakhong.com.hk


Nice and what a bargain , only 2050usd when I add VAT plus shipping


----------



## tchan001

You could try to get Master Kato's dammy and see how much more it would cost you. The apprentice is most likely cheaper. LOL


----------



## Carl Kotte

maz mighty


----------



## RockyBasel

Carl Kotte said:


> View attachment 99076
> 
> maz mighty



So from right - KU, Kasumi, and the last one I don’t m ow


----------



## Carl Kotte

RockyBasel said:


> So from right - KU, Kasumi, and the last one I don’t m ow


Old JNS ’Bullnose’ profile. Wh2


----------



## IsoJ

New Mazakis at CKC. A little different profile


----------



## RockyBasel

I really think at 280 for a 240 mm Gyuto, they are one of the best values out there


----------



## RockyBasel

I think carbon will also get the Kasumi finish next year


----------



## IsoJ

RockyBasel said:


> I think carbon will also get the Kasumi finish next year


I hope not, or I would like to see at least a decent looking kasumi finish...


----------



## daddy yo yo

RockyBasel said:


> I really think at 280 for a 240 mm Gyuto, they are one of the best values out there


Unless you live outside the US, have to add ~60 US$ for shipping and get hit with +8.5% customs duties and +20% VAT. Then you end up paying ~440 US$ for that knife and I wouldn't call it such a great deal then...


----------



## Matt Jacobs

daddy yo yo said:


> Unless you live outside the US, have to add ~60 US$ for shipping and get hit with +8.5% customs duties and +20% VAT. Then you end up paying ~440 US$ for that knife and I wouldn't call it such a great deal then...


I agree but I have a couple of $400.00 semi custom knives from US makers and neither perform in the same league as my Mazaki's.
in fact I got such great pricing from a local shop on my Mazaki's that I regret some other purchases.


----------



## daddy yo yo

Matt Jacobs said:


> I agree but I have a couple of $400.00 semi custom knives from US makers and neither perform in the same league as my Mazaki's.
> in fact I got such great pricing from a local shop on my Mazaki's that I regret some other purchases.


It's all very subjective. I have recently bought a custom gyuto from German maker Simon Herde. Price was approx. those 440 US$. In my point of view (and I really like my Mazakis) the better value for the money. But again, it's all highly subjective.


----------



## Matt Jacobs

daddy yo yo said:


> It's all very subjective. I have recently bought a custom gyuto from German maker Simon Herde. Price was approx. those 440 US$. In my point of view (and I really like my Mazakis) the better value for the money. But again, it's all highly subjective.


Very true, I just need to do more research and not buy a knife instantly without knowing the maker...


----------



## tcmx3

IsoJ said:


> New Mazakis at CKC. A little different profile



looks exactly like the one I got from KNS just a while ago.

I cant say enough good things about it, albeit with the context that it costs under 300 dollars for us Americans. if it were 500 dollars I'd might pick something else but I'm extremely happy with mine as is. The profile is just AWESOME imo as is the weight. It's just right for me. Quite heavy for a 240 but nothing silly.

I will agree with the criticism that the cladding appears to be allergic to forming an attractive patina.


----------



## RockyBasel

daddy yo yo said:


> It's all very subjective. I have recently bought a custom gyuto from German maker Simon Herde. Price was approx. those 440 US$. In my point of view (and I really like my Mazakis) the better value for the money. But again, it's all highly subjective.



A Herde at 440 sounds like a deal for a custom knife - I think Jannis/Benjamin charge 1,000 plus for knives on their site, so with a price difference of 2x, I wonder about what is value and quality in knife making when the price swings are so substantial


----------



## RockyBasel

daddy yo yo said:


> Unless you live outside the US, have to add ~60 US$ for shipping and get hit with +8.5% customs duties and +20% VAT. Then you end up paying ~440 US$ for that knife and I wouldn't call it such a great deal then...


Btw, I live in Switzerland, and was. It hit by these duties when my Mazaki arrived from CKC


----------



## JayS20

RockyBasel said:


> A Herde at 440 sounds like a deal for a custom knife - I think Jannis/Benjamin charge 1,000 plus for knives on their site, so with a price difference of 2x, I wonder about what is value and quality in knife making when the price swings are so substantial


Simon is still a student. He makes it on the side. Only heard good things about his knives and talked a bit with him. I went for a Custom around March/April. One month later we discussed the details. Then one month later he informed me they would be done somnewhere between October to January. Then I talked with him again he said there is a good chance he will finish them in November since he was pretty much done with the blades beginning of October. No idea when I will get them but I will be happy I'm quite sure. Communication isn't his strong suit but I don't really care and am not in a hurry. He does stock removal and gets them heattreated by quite a competent person. Fit and finish is well done. Definitely different interaction compared to other knifemakers. Can't really be compared to Kamon or Xerxes who work quite differently.


----------



## RockyBasel

JayS20 said:


> Simon is still a student. He makes it on the side. Only heard good things about his knives and talked a bit with him. I went for a Custom around March/April. One month later we discussed the details. Then one month later he informed me they would be done somnewhere between October to January. Then I talked with him again he said there is a good chance he will finish them in November since he was pretty much done with the blades beginning of October. No idea when I will get them but I will be happy I'm quite sure. Communication isn't his strong suit but I don't really care and am not in a hurry. He does stock removal and gets them heattreated by quite a competent person. Fit and finish is well done. Definitely different interaction compared to other knifemakers. Can't really be compared to Kamon or Xerxes who work quite differently.



Very helpful and insightful


----------



## daddy yo yo

RockyBasel said:


> I think Jannis/Benjamin charge 1,000 plus for knives on their site


It always depends on what exactly you’re looking at. Those prices aren’t true - or they are. It depends what we are talking about. A monosteel Kamon will cost less. A fancy damascus Xerxes will cost 3 or 4 times that price...


----------



## RockyBasel

daddy yo yo said:


> It always depends on what exactly you’re looking at. Those prices aren’t true - or they are. It depends what we are talking about. A monosteel Kamon will cost less. A fancy damascus Xerxes will cost 3 or 4 times that price...



Yup - completely agree


----------



## Jville

tcmx3 said:


> looks exactly like the one I got from KNS just a while ago.
> 
> I cant say enough good things about it, albeit with the context that it costs under 300 dollars for us Americans. if it were 500 dollars I'd might pick something else but I'm extremely happy with mine as is. The profile is just AWESOME imo as is the weight. It's just right for me. Quite heavy for a 240 but nothing silly.
> 
> I will agree with the criticism that the cladding appears to be allergic to forming an attractive patina.


My blue #1 seems to be taking a really nice patina.


----------



## Carl Kotte

daddy yo yo said:


> Unless you live outside the US, have to add ~60 US$ for shipping and get hit with +8.5% customs duties and +20% VAT. Then you end up paying ~440 US$ for that knife and I wouldn't call it such a great deal then...


While this is true (the shipping, vat etc), it doesn’t really speak to whether the knife is very good value for money at $280. The fact that you (and me) can’t get it for that price is a distinct matter.


----------



## RockyBasel

Jville said:


> My blue #1 seems to be taking a really nice patina.


Blue 1 yes, takes on a good blueish patina. White steel - brownish patina, often referred to as s***ty patina here in the forum


----------



## RockyBasel

Btw, talking about good value, Toyama stainless clad 210 mm Gyuto on sale for 321 at JNS - that is a good value as the knife is an amazing performer


----------



## Twotimehojo

What does everyone think about the new profile on the CKC mazaki gyutos.? Im not good at reading specs The 210cm gyuto has edge lenght of 214mm. 
Height at heel: 51mm, Spine thickness above heel/ mid/ 1cm from tip: 5mm/ 2.7mm/ .7mm. Weight: 196g

What can one read into that?


----------



## Robert Lavacca

New maz look nice at carbon. Not loving those handles at all but the blades look great. A little thick but nothing that can’t be adjusted. I swear.. one of these days i’m just going to go back to using maz, mune, hinoura, wakui, and call it a day. At least when it comes to pro kitchens. Some of these “budget friendly” options perform just as good if not better than some of the knives in the $500 and more range. Really want to pick a maz 270 up since I have two 240s already but It will have to be another time.


----------



## tcmx3

Robert Lavacca said:


> New maz look nice at carbon. Not loving those handles at all but the blades look great. A little thick but nothing that can’t be adjusted. I swear.. one of these days i’m just going to go back to using maz, mune, hinoura, wakui, and call it a day. At least when it comes to pro kitchens. Some of these “budget friendly” options perform just as good if not better than some of the knives in the $500 and more range. Really want to pick a maz 270 up since I have two 240s already but It will have to be another time.



just wait for KNS to restock. that handle is perfect for the knife IMO


----------



## RockyBasel

My old batch maz 240 Gyuto specs

Heel height 54.5 mm
Heel to tip - 245

Weight - 244 gm

So very similar in profile to the new batch - slightly less heel height in the new knives - that could vary from knife to knife I presume

Is it worth asking Santa for a Mazaki Damascus? 

I wonder given it’s price tag


----------



## Ben.G.

Twotimehojo said:


> What does everyone think about the new profile on the CKC mazaki gyutos.?


I’m disappointed. The previous batch had a beautiful profile that I was very interested in buying in the near future. It was the only knife on my wish list that I would consider ordering internationally. This new batch seems to taper more near the tip with less belly and loses that sexy French shape. More like a spear shape. Also the new wood ferrule is less attractive than the buffalo horn.


----------



## tcmx3

RockyBasel said:


> My old batch maz 240 Gyuto specs
> 
> Heel height 54.5 mm
> Heel to tip - 245
> 
> Weight - 244 gm
> 
> So very similar in profile to the new batch - slightly less heel height in the new knives - that could vary from knife to knife I presume
> 
> Is it worth asking Santa for a Mazaki Damascus?
> 
> I wonder given it’s price tag



given the F&F on my Kurouchi one I wouldnt spend up for a suminagashi one. aesthetics are not the dude's strongpoint IMO


----------



## RockyBasel

tcmx3 said:


> given the F&F on my Kurouchi one I wouldnt spend up for a suminagashi one. aesthetics are not the dude's strongpoint IMO


Thank you so much - I just needed to hear someone else say it


----------



## tcmx3

RockyBasel said:


> Thank you so much - I just needed to hear someone else say it



glad I could help.

can strongly recommend a white 2 KU in the new profile though.


----------



## RockyBasel

I have the KU in the previous batch from CKC - am happy with it - these are similar, but appear to be slightly slimmer


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Yeah those ones at Carbon and Cleancut right now look pretty wicked


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Now the latest batch of Mazaki has a taller yoshikane profile.


----------



## Jville

Im not a fan of those handles at all. Without a doubt, I'd prefer K&S Mazakis.


----------



## IsoJ

I wonder how burnt magnolia would look like


----------



## TSF415

I'm not a fan of the ever changing profile.


----------



## IsoJ

That profile looks better with the 180 gyuto than 210 or 240


----------



## daveb

TSF415 said:


> I'm not a fan of the ever changing profile.



It changes based on what color socks he's wearing. The yellow sock one is pretty sweet. Mine came from blue polka dot day and was meh....


----------



## Nagakin

Early batches this year had the best profile imo


----------



## Jville

He seems like he's dialed it in to me and becoming pretty consistent. For awhile it did seem to change somewhat drastically from batch to batch. But it seems like he has found his style to me. Both mine are very consistent although that is a weak argument because they are both blue from similar time period, but when I look at pics of new stuff it seems to be staying much more consistent.


----------



## JimMaple98

this is why I am scared to get a Mazaki, I would like to know what the profile would be for certain before buying, and no retailers have replied to my emails asking for pictures of their ones in stock  guess they are too busy with Christmas orders.
oh well looks like I just have to trust their photos on their sites are up to date


----------



## Jeezuinn

JimMaple98 said:


> this is why I am scared to get a Mazaki, I would like to know what the profile would be for certain before buying, and no retailers have replied to my emails asking for pictures of their ones in stock  guess they are too busy with Christmas orders.
> oh well looks like I just have to trust their photos on their sites are up to date



Kinda the same reason why I am still on the fence. Would not want to receive something I was not expecting..


----------



## Garm

I know choil shots can't really be trusted all that much, but does anyone else here see a clear difference comapared to the previous version(s)? The newest ones look like they have more of a flat bevel with more pronounced shoulders.


----------



## Nagakin

I wouldn't worry and buy with confidence. It's not like the TF lottery, every batch is very consistent with itself and retailers do a good job at photographing the differences.


----------



## tchan001

Mazaki can give you one of the greatest pleasures in collecting. There are so many variations over time, it is a paradise for the Mazaki purist who tries to try to fill up his collection with all the different flavors of Mazaki.


----------



## tcmx3

JimMaple98 said:


> this is why I am scared to get a Mazaki, I would like to know what the profile would be for certain before buying, and no retailers have replied to my emails asking for pictures of their ones in stock  guess they are too busy with Christmas orders.
> oh well looks like I just have to trust their photos on their sites are up to date



go follow the retailers on instagram and watch when they post pictures of their new ones.

Im serious though the one I got and other folks' new ones look exactly like KNS and CKC's new photos so Im not sure what the issue here is.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Yeah, seems weird to make fun of a guy for fulfilling different orders to different specifications


----------



## IsoJ

Do people mean when talking about profiles the grind/cross sectional geometry? I am thinking when talking about profile, it means edge and spine curvatury, spine/tang/handle angle, pointy or taller tip, how much belly etc..


----------



## Cliff

Robert Lavacca said:


> New maz look nice at carbon. Not loving those handles at all but the blades look great. A little thick but nothing that can’t be adjusted. I swear.. one of these days i’m just going to go back to using maz, mune, hinoura, wakui, and call it a day. At least when it comes to pro kitchens. Some of these “budget friendly” options perform just as good if not better than some of the knives in the $500 and more range. Really want to pick a maz 270 up since I have two 240s already but It will have to be another time.



I got a 270 Kasumi from KnS -- earlier this year or last, can't remember offhand -- and it was indeed a bit thick and wedged a lot. The profile is great, and I'm finally getting the grind where I want it. It has taken quite a lot of time on a 220 to get there, though. Having put the work in, it feels great now.


----------



## Jville

JimMaple98 said:


> this is why I am scared to get a Mazaki, I would like to know what the profile would be for certain before buying, and no retailers have replied to my emails asking for pictures of their ones in stock  guess they are too busy with Christmas orders.
> oh well looks like I just have to trust their photos on their sites are up to date



I would buy now. His knives aren't getting any cheaper. And imo he is not putting out duds. Like I said before, it seems his stuff lately seems pretty consistent but I guess others may disagree. 


IsoJ said:


> Do people mean when talking about profiles the grind/cross sectional geometry? I am thinking when talking about profile, it means edge and spine curvatury, spine/tang/handle angle, pointy or taller tip, how much belly etc..


What you said, is what it should be referring to.


----------



## Cliff

I was referring to the KS style tip with a gradual curve in the front and a nice flat spot. I would distinguish that from the grind, which was surprisingly thick behind the edge.

ETA - I have an earlier 240 from JNS that looks like it was finished on an Atoma 140, but it was really well finished. It's probably the best cutting knife I have. The KnS version looked bead blasted and didn't get quite the attention on stones (or plates) the JNS version did. It was prettier but took a lot of work get it to perform.


----------



## JimMaple98

trust me I completely understand that there will be some variation, just wished I could get photos of the exact knife I would buy if there are going to be variances between them in the same batch. 

looks like you lot have persuaded me though, I must be thinking it’s a greater risk than it truely is, and you are right, his stuff is only going up in price (obviously rightly so)


----------



## ref

My maz (one of the new ones, with the controversial handle above) needed thinning. It needed thinning big time. It was super thick at the shoulders/shinogi, and they needed rounding and bringing them towards the spine. It would not cut a potato before. It was bad. So here are some before and after pics if anyone is interested. The KU was scarified for performance, there was no way of keeping much of it.

I oiled the handle quite a bit half way through, and I'm not sure how much weight that adds so I'm not completely sure on the weight loss but it's somewhere between 6g and 10g I think. I used a combination of JNS300/shapton glass 500/atoma 140 (for when I was getting tired) for thinning, and finished on a king 800.


----------



## jacko9

Thats a lot of work to do on a custom made knife. I have two earlier Mazaki's from JNS and the 180 Gyuto does not impress me at all. As I look at his newer offerings each knife seems like it was made randomly or he is into the ever changing trial period of his career?


----------



## tostadas

ref said:


> My maz (one of the new ones, with the controversial handle above) needed thinning. It needed thinning big time. It was super thick at the shoulders/shinogi, and they needed rounding and bringing them towards the spine. It would not cut a potato before. It was bad. So here are some before and after pics if anyone is interested. The KU was scarified for performance, there was no way of keeping much of it.
> 
> I oiled the handle quite a bit half way through, and I'm not sure how much weight that adds so I'm not completely sure on the weight loss but it's somewhere between 6g and 10g I think. I used a combination of JNS300/shapton glass 500/atoma 140 (for when I was getting tired) for thinning, and finished on a king 800.
> View attachment 105016
> View attachment 105015
> 
> View attachment 105017



Do you have measurements of your thickness behind the edge (at 5mm, 10mm and 20mm)?

Just for reference, my Mazaki KU from knifewear purchased earlier this year had a very significant convex behind the edge with minimal if any flat grind below the shinogi line.

Measurements at midblade:
1.0mm @ 5mm
1.5mm @ 10mm
2.2mm @ 20mm


----------



## TSF415

I didn't want to judge a knife by its choil but I guess the need for that thinning job confirmed that its a thick knife.


----------



## ref

tostadas said:


> Do you have measurements of your thickness behind the edge (at 5mm, 10mm and 20mm)?



I can try take some measurements tomorrow, but regarding the shoulders, see. the below pic, and note that I mean to write mm not m (I mean it was thick but not _that _thick). Where it starts to get to 2mm at the top of the primary bevel half way down the knife, it was actually the same thickness as the spine and I'm pretty sure in some cases, thicker than the spine.

It was plenty thin right behind the edge.


----------



## tostadas

ref said:


> I can try take some measurements tomorrow, but regarding the shoulders, see. the below pic, and note that I mean to write mm not m (I mean it was thick but not _that _thick). Where it starts to get to 2mm at the top of the primary bevel half way down the knife, it was actually the same thickness as the spine and I'm pretty sure in some cases, thicker than the spine.
> 
> It was plenty thin right behind the edge.
> 
> View attachment 105018



Yea, I also noticed a bit of concave grind between the widest part of the bevel and the spine. I updated my previous post with numbers for comparison.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Jville said:


> Im not a fan of those handles at all. Without a doubt, I'd prefer K&S Mazakis.


Wasn't Maz putting those 'cheap' handles on his super premium blue dammy knives? Should do better IMO


----------



## ref

tostadas said:


> Yea, I also noticed a bit of concave grind between the widest part of the bevel and the spine.



Thanks, I'll compared tomorrow. Regarding the concave grind (between the shoulders/spine), I had the same on an earlier nakiri, and a friend has the same on an even older 240, we are currently unsure to why this is and I'm not sure I can be bothered to read through the previous 64 pages to see if there has been any discussion yet.


----------



## ref

FYI here is the handle oiled and waxed, as it probably should be OOTB. The bolster will act as a sponge otherwise.


----------



## tcmx3

ref said:


> Thanks, I'll compared tomorrow. Regarding the concave grind (between the shoulders/spine), I had the same on an earlier nakiri, and a friend has the same on an even older 240, we are currently unsure to why this is and I'm not sure I can be bothered to read through the previous 64 pages to see if there has been any discussion yet.



my 240 has that too.

Ive not had a ton of issues, but I do plan to soften the shinogi myself a bit in the course of time. cant say I feel mine needs to be thinned right away though


----------



## tostadas

ref said:


> Thanks, I'll compared tomorrow. Regarding the concave grind (between the shoulders/spine), I had the same on an earlier nakiri, and a friend has the same on an even older 240, we are currently unsure to why this is and I'm not sure I can be bothered to read through the previous 64 pages to see if there has been any discussion yet.



Perhaps it has to do with food release (S-type grind)?


----------



## Gregmega

Really the best way to get the perfect Maz profile is just buy the dammy. It’s puuuuurrrrrfect. .

I was able to get 3 of the first gen bullnose and I’m a happy camper, the other ones I kept still remind me every time why I’m a fan.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

I actually really like those profiles on carbon right now. If it was SS clad, I would of grabbed one already. I already have my fair share of mazaki from past purchases. Wish he would do SS clad for more than just Razorsharp or whatever.


----------



## RockyBasel

Robert Lavacca said:


> I actually really like those profiles on carbon right now. If it was SS clad, I would of grabbed one already. I already have my fair share of mazaki from past purchases. Wish he would do SS clad for more than just Razorsharp or whatever.



I agree with you 100%

Satisfied with my CKC

CKC KU Maz is fun to use. I stayed away from those knifewear models because they looked inconsistent and some of the choice shots scared me a bit

I also got a blue 1 honsanmai Mazaki from K&S - that knife is in a different class altogether - meticulous, really well made, if you can find one.

That’s the best Mazaki I have - but I only have 2, and got rid of the JNS Kasumi - just did not like that one.

I am not ready to pay 1,500 for a Maz blue 2 Damascus. There is one available online, but I can’t get myself to pull the trigger. The 2021 batch maz Damascus could be a blue 1, and is likely going to be made much better. I will wait


----------



## RockyBasel

Question for the learned - does anyone know what a Yoshihiro Mazaki is like? More like CKC?


----------



## daddy yo yo

RockyBasel said:


> Question for the learned - does anyone know what a Yoshihiro Mazaki is like? More like CKC?


I’d say so, at least the ones with same/similar production dates (batches). Have a 240 CKC and a 210 Yoshihiro (or was it the other way round?) and couldn’t tell the difference...


----------



## RockyBasel

Good to know - thanks


----------



## TSF415

RockyBasel said:


> Question for the learned - does anyone know what a Yoshihiro Mazaki is like? More like CKC?



yes. The best Mazaki I had to date was from ckc. 2 batches ago. Only problem was that the tip was too thin and I tipped it within 30secs of using it. Also it was distinctly left handed oddly so I traded it to a wrong hand person on the forum. I bought a Yoshihiro to replace it. Same handle and all. Pretty sure it was from the same batch.


----------



## Robert Lavacca

I got a gem from yoshihiro over a year ago. The best mazaki i’ve had yet and probably one of my favorite gyutos I own. Even compared to ones that are triple the price. I’m sure all his grinds have thickened up a little everywhere though. This was when they were really thin behind the edge but still beefy as heck. Sweet keyaki handle too.


----------



## Corradobrit1

If I were to buy a Maz it would be a Yoshihiro or KnS version. These seem to appeal most in terms of grind and profile


----------



## RockyBasel

TSF415 said:


> yes. The best Mazaki I had to date was from ckc. 2 batches ago. Only problem was that the tip was too thin and I tipped it within 30secs of using it. Also it was distinctly left handed oddly so I traded it to a wrong hand person on the forum. I bought a Yoshihiro to replace it. Same handle and all. Pretty sure it was from the same batch.


I had the same experience with the tip - bent it almost a day later - so thin


----------



## RockyBasel

If anyone is interested, there is a 270 mm Gyuto, Mazaki Damascus on sale for USD 2,400 

never thought I would see the day! Mazaki more expensive than Kato WH and River Jump and Shig Kitaeji


----------



## RockyBasel

Update - it’s now sold out - blue 1 Damascus Mazaki, the last batch was blue 2.

for those who want to see - it’s at Protool - also a Jiro 270 Gyuto still available there


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> If anyone is interested, there is a 270 mm Gyuto, Mazaki Damascus on sale for USD 2,400
> 
> never thought I would see the day! Mazaki more expensive than Kato WH and River Jump and Shig Kitaeji


The world done gone crazy.


----------



## JoBone

RockyBasel said:


> never thought I would see the day! Mazaki more expensive than Kato WH and River Jump and Shig Kitaeji



any of those as a B1 270 would far surpass the price, assuming the Kato is also Damascus


----------



## JimMaple98

Mazaki Damascus | 270mm Sujihiki Knife


Naoki Mazaki is a solo blacksmith hand-crafting all aspects of his knives in-house. Apprenticing under legendary master Kiyoshi Kato, he is creating some of the most sought-out knives at this present time. The Mazaki Damascus knives offered herein are extremely rare, they are likely to take...




protooling.com.au





someome get this before I sell a car for it


----------



## RockyBasel

JimMaple98 said:


> Mazaki Damascus | 270mm Sujihiki Knife
> 
> 
> Naoki Mazaki is a solo blacksmith hand-crafting all aspects of his knives in-house. Apprenticing under legendary master Kiyoshi Kato, he is creating some of the most sought-out knives at this present time. The Mazaki Damascus knives offered herein are extremely rare, they are likely to take...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protooling.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> someome get this before I sell a car for it


The 270 mm Gyuto already sold for 2,400 USD


----------



## daddy yo yo

Is it just me or does anyone else find that ridiculous?!


----------



## tcmx3

daddy yo yo said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else find that ridiculous?!



there's a lot of things I look at and think _I dont get it_

there are so many great knives you can buy for huge $$$; what's this one offering that justifies the price? suminagashi blue steel? that's not even close to enough for me personally. yeah finish looks better than his typical white stuff but like, that stuff costs 300 bucks.


----------



## tcmx3

btw wanted to say Ive continued using my 240 KU and like it more and more.

I havent quite taken enough metal off to have a really nice consistent kasumi, but it's getting there, and cutting seems to have improved by refining the finish, so yeah all in all really happy with mine.


----------



## RockyBasel

tcmx3 said:


> there's a lot of things I look at and think _I dont get it_
> 
> there are so many great knives you can buy for huge $$$; what's this one offering that justifies the price? suminagashi blue steel? that's not even close to enough for me personally. yeah finish looks better than his typical white stuff but like, that stuff costs 300 bucks.



some people justify it, say it’s rarer than a Shig Kitaeji. I mean the 270 Shig kitaeji sells for $900 less than this 270 Damascus Mazaki. I do scratch my noggin about that

others say supply and demand - if people are willing to pay 2,400 K, who are we to say anything.

in the 80’s women were wearing sweatpants saying “juicy“on the bum, and spending $100 for it. It was vogue 

there is a huge hype on the forum re mazaki, whipping up demand- maybe it’s vogue now to spend thousands on a mazaki Damascus 

but hats off to him, he has created a knife more expensive than a Kato WH and people are buying it


----------



## tcmx3

RockyBasel said:


> some people justify it, say it’s rarer than a Shig Kitaeji. I mean the 270 Shig kitaeji sells for $900 less than this 270 Damascus Mazaki. I do scratch my noggin about that
> 
> others say supply and demand - if people are willing to pay 2,400 K, who are we to say anything.
> 
> in the 80’s women were wearing sweatpants saying “juicy“on the bum, and spending $100 for it. It was vogue
> 
> there is a huge hype on the forum re mazaki, whipping up demand- maybe it’s vogue now to spend thousands on a mazaki Damascus
> 
> but hats off to him, he has created a knife more expensive than a Kato WH and people are buying it



rarity is justification itself for some people. kind of like "vintage" or "hype".

it doesnt really do anything for me, personally. if I can buy a better knife at the same price or lower, I will.

I probably come off grumpy and like I think really high end stuff is a waste and I really dont. Ive got two 100 watt Two Rock amps, am a big fan of high end Pelikan/Nakaya pens, hell my avatar on this forum used to be the Leica logo because their rangefinders are my favorite 35mm cameras. I just dont like stuff getting rocketed to stratospheric prices for reasons that are prima facie not related to the quality of the thing itself. yeah some stuff is pretty subjective, but Ill never get over the hump of something being good because it's rare/old/exclusive

fwiw the two primary complaints I have about the plain-jane Mazaki are 1. finish quality and 2. use of white steel instead of blue. Id gladly pay 5 or 600 for a 240 gyuto from him that solved those two for me, depending on the specifics.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Rich people are rich. They might spend 2 grands like me spending 20 bucks. I wouldn't care if a knife is 24 bucks or 15 bucks either if I want it.


----------



## RockyBasel

tcmx3 said:


> rarity is justification itself for some people. kind of like "vintage" or "hype".
> 
> it doesnt really do anything for me, personally. if I can buy a better knife at the same price or lower, I will.
> 
> I probably come off grumpy and like I think really high end stuff is a waste and I really dont. Ive got two 100 watt Two Rock amps, am a big fan of high end Pelikan/Nakaya pens, hell my avatar on this forum used to be the Leica logo because their rangefinders are my favorite 35mm cameras. I just dont like stuff getting rocketed to stratospheric prices for reasons that are prima facie not related to the quality of the thing itself. yeah some stuff is pretty subjective, but Ill never get over the hump of something being good because it's rare/old/exclusive
> 
> fwiw the two primary complaints I have about the plain-jane Mazaki are 1. finish quality and 2. use of white steel instead of blue. Id gladly pay 5 or 600 for a 240 gyuto from him that solved those two for me, depending on the specifics.



Amen!! I think you said it best.

and I did pay $500 for a blue 1 Gyuto Sanmai by Maz (K&S) that has great fit and finish. My best Mazaki to date

for me it’s the Montegrappa!


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

I'm really hesitant about buying another knife in Shiro 2. Always leaves me unsatisfied somehow.

If it were white 1, blue 1, or AS with primo heat treat (maaaaybe blue 2) I'd have bought one long ago.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

The pic on that page makes me want to buy a Ku and polish the black off


----------



## Moooza

Mazaki dammy is really nice. So tempting.


----------



## Gregmega

Ok so don’t get mad at me when you see the pics of my 2 Maz dammy on ‘show your newest knife buy’ alright thx


----------



## Gregmega

In all seriousness though- I’ve owned about 13 Mazaki gyuto before I got my first dammy (and now suji). The blue and the dammy are a massive step up in finish, ratio, and detail; I think anyone here with experience can attest to that observation. All conversation regarding the wholesalers aside, it’s clear that Maz is aware that there needs to be value added at that price range, and I believe he is delivering. They feel like the cartoon version of all the things he does well. And anyone worried about the handle it comes with is looking in the wrong price strata (I’ve never purchased/not purchased a knife because the handle did/didn’t suit me)...

Value is a pretty subjective thing, but probably everyone in this forum has had one of those ‘oh shiz’ moments where they missed an opportunity or never bought legacy knives when they were more affordable- and things aren’t getting any cheaper in this world. I actually think it’s crazier to drop 1400 on a Kato std than it is to take a step up in class and get this super rare piece. I mean you can get a togashi honyaki for the price of a Kato, and anyone sleeping on that is just plain crazy.

I also believe that the smiths probably were working on pretty slim margins for many years and if this is an opportunity for them to make a little more cash, I’m all for it- I’ll always support businesses/people/craftsmen that put their all into it. In this case he’s doing the dammy clad by hand and forge welding it to the steel with pretty immaculate results... not like the ubiquitous prelam (conjecture) that are getting pushed out at a record pace.

So call it whatever you will, I’m gonna cal it mine.


----------



## daddy yo yo

Fair enough.

I am not judging people who spend their hard earned on smth they really want, no matter what it is and from whom it is. I understand the concept of luxury.

Still I think it is pretty bold from the guy with yellow socks (love that) to set a price this high which puts him on par or even above Shigefusa Kitaeji, Hinoura, and so on. Although I do criticize Mazaki for the variation from batch to batch (ok, maybe that is just his way to improve) I do absolutely like his standard knives. I think they are good value for the money. But as I said, it’s pretty bold to create artificial scarcity and set such a high price for his damascus knives. Not saying anything against their quality and/or F&F... Look at Mizuno Suminagashi, look at those Ikeda knives on BST... This is as much as I am willing to go, no matter which steel, no matter which smith.

Still I will love to look at your Mazaki Damascus knife/knives!


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

@Gregmega nothing like a man putting his money where his mouth is. Respek



Gregmega said:


> not like the ubiquitous prelam (conjecture) that are getting pushed out at a record pace.



whoa whoa whoa hold up...
can't just drop a grenade like that and walk away

what high end dammys do you suspect as being prelam?


----------



## Gregmega

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @Gregmega nothing like a man putting his money where his mouth is. Respek
> 
> 
> 
> whoa whoa whoa hold up...
> can't just drop a grenade like that and walk away
> 
> what high end dammys do you suspect as being prelam?


I don’t like to name names outright as it’s conjecture, but my understanding is that most the stuff coming out in any sensible volume is a prelam made in larger factories like Hitachi so these guys can pump out at insane paces. Technology has come a long way, so it makes sense as a business model to use what’s best for margins, also what maz is doing by hand is by his own admission a long, romantic, & expensive option. I guess I’ll just say it like this- are there any knives coming out at volume across many vendors that might be nearly impossible for one mortal smith to do entirely in the old ways? I’m also certainly not trying to pick a fight, they’re all equally amazing pieces. This may be the hole in the armor that puts people on edge- it’s the romance and the story we buy that is the difference in the prices. Value is a mysterious beast.


----------



## Gregmega

daddy yo yo said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I am not judging people who spend their hard earned on smth they really want, no matter what it is and from whom it is. I understand the concept of luxury.
> 
> Still I think it is pretty bold from the guy with yellow socks (love that) to set a price this high which puts him on par or even above Shigefusa Kitaeji, Hinoura, and so on. Although I do criticize Mazaki for the variation from batch to batch (ok, maybe that is just his way to improve) I do absolutely like his standard knives. I think they are good value for the money. But as I said, it’s pretty bold to create artificial scarcity and set such a high price for his damascus knives. Not saying anything against their quality and/or F&F... Look at Mizuno Suminagashi, look at those Ikeda knives on BST... This is as much as I am willing to go, no matter which steel, no matter which smith.
> 
> Still I will love to look at your Mazaki Damascus knife/knives!


I completely understand the ‘***’ factor surrounding these knives. But all I can say in regards to his wandering style is that it’s not an issue in these ones. It appears he’s taken all he’s learned and fused them into these blades. The best way I can describe it is like how a cartoon is a perfect distillation of an image, and these are all the great things he does so well forged into a single moment.

For scarcity, I imagine he has to balance between making money with his volume at lower price points and then allocating time to do these incredibly laborious and clandestine blades. So in that way I’m guessing it’s more a function of intelligent time management and less purposeful drip feed market frenzy. I think these are posterity/legacy endeavors.

Or maybe I’m the sucker buying the story, that’s always possible too.


----------



## daddy yo yo

I have to admit that I’d love to try and compare a Damascus Mazaki to the other usual suspects... 

But still, what would that say?! It just tells ME (and no one else) what MY experience and ratings are... Many crave for a Kato WH. I had one. It didn’t click with me and so it was one of these „don’t believe the hype“ experiences - for ME! I own a Mizuno Honyaki which I bought in Sakai in his shop. It is a great memory and it has sentimental value to me, but I prefer so many other knives over that one...

Again, I’d love to try one of these Mazakis and see how it works for me...


----------



## Gregmega

Totally hear you on all that. My WH 240 didn’t do it for me, but the standard will stay with me. I also never really connected to Fuji, which is like heresy to say around these hallowed grounds. Same with Toyama (don’t kill me guys). I think more than anything I’ve been drawn to Sanjo makers and for whatever reason his stuff just clicked with me. Maybe my cutting style, maybe the early profile, can’t put my finger on it. They just feel good to me.


----------



## lemeneid




----------



## RockyBasel

With all of this said, I will probably splurge for a mazascus someday, but in blue 1, not blue 2. I think the wait is worth it. Many splurged on the blue 2, because it was the new expensive rare toy. But now Maz has a blue 1 dammy, and I wonder how that will affect the prices of the blue 2 on BST, as these blue 1’s enter the market 

I would like to splurge less than 2,000, I think 2,400 for a Maz blue 1 dammy is too much - of course we will find someone willing to pay that price

I love my blue 1 Maz migaki- great knifewith a great finish - have not used it enough

The CKC KU is great value at under 300. 
But the Maz KU cannot compare to a slimline Heiji, Dalman, Puig, Toyama, kono Fuji blue etc. in perms of pure overall performance. But at the 300 price point, it’s fantastic

my question is whether at a 2,400 price point, is the dammy as fantastic as compared to its price peers. That is always a subjective conclusion based on preference and usage.


----------



## daddy yo yo

RockyBasel said:


> The CKC KU is great value at under 300.
> But the Maz KU cannot compare to a slimline Heiji, Dalman, Puig, Toyama, kono Fuji blue etc.


...and it is not meant to. We shouldn’t compare apples with pears! A Mazaki KU is a heavy WH. Dalman isn’t, Western maybe, but at what price and availability!? Konosuke Fujiyama same thing. Toyama is different, I’d rate Toyama over Mazaki but it is more expensive, no? Heiji is also smth very special, wide-bevel...


----------



## RockyBasel

Agreed 100%


----------



## Twotimehojo

Is there somewhat a consensus on the current Mazaki offerings with respect to profile and grind in 210 gyuto from Ckc, KnS, or other reputable place to purchase? Is there a batch out there that everyone seems to agree on? Ignoring blade handle


----------



## Nagakin

Idk about consensus, but the 270 leftover on ckc from earlier this year is my favorite batch. Right at the edge of losing all belly and becoming a spear like the current one.


----------



## Gregmega

lemeneid said:


> View attachment 105556


Says the guy who only buys TFTFTFTF


----------



## tcmx3

Twotimehojo said:


> Is there somewhat a consensus on the current Mazaki offerings with respect to profile and grind in 210 gyuto from Ckc, KnS, or other reputable place to purchase? Is there a batch out there that everyone seems to agree on? Ignoring blade handle



there's definitely not a consensus.

you have fans of each style. 

you can find me in the camp of the most recent profile.


----------



## JoBone

RockyBasel said:


> With all of this said, I will probably splurge for a mazascus someday, but in blue 1, not blue 2. I think the wait is worth it..... But now Maz has a blue 1 dammy, and I wonder how that will affect the prices of the blue 2 on BST, as these blue 1’s enter the market



Perhaps some people will sell a B2 to purchase a B1, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. I’ve talked to the distributor about production and cost. 

Mazaki wants these to be a special line of knives - the production will be extremely limited with each knife getting the attention needed to make it as perfect as possible. 

I guess as time goes by, people will sell them. 
But who knows if they will sell them at a higher or lower price. With the drop in the value of the dollar and increased wealth in parts of Asia, the prices may go up not down.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Nagakin said:


> Idk about consensus, but the 270 leftover on ckc from earlier this year is my favorite batch. Right at the edge of losing all belly and becoming a spear like the current one.



agreed, looks like ckc has a newer different batch but I prefer that one


----------



## Gregmega

JoBone said:


> Mazaki wants these to be a special line of knives - the production will be extremely limited with each knife getting the attention needed to make it as perfect as possible.


It shows, and it’s nice to hear this being confirmed with the distributor. This was the vibe I got for sure. Thanks for reaffirming my suspicion.


----------



## lemeneid

Gregmega said:


> Says the guy who only buys TFTFTFTF


Got a few Mazakis of my own. Not impressed by them to be honest. And his current prices are reaching Toyama/Wat territory and I’d rather stick with them.

I’ve played the TF lottery all my life and have been winning. Only had one bad knife which after a quick tuneup, turned out to be one of my best in the drawer now.


----------



## Gregmega

lemeneid said:


> Got a few Mazakis of my own. Not impressed by them to be honest. And his current prices are reaching Toyama/Wat territory and I’d rather stick with them.
> 
> I’ve played the TF lottery all my life and have been winning. Only had one bad knife which after a quick tuneup, turned out to be one of my best in the drawer now.


There’s a denka that’s been haunting me for almost a year. One of these days I may put my money where my mouth is I guess. Stand by.


----------



## lemeneid

Gregmega said:


> There’s a denka that’s been haunting me for almost a year. One of these days I may put my money where my mouth is I guess. Stand by.


“I will buy this”??


----------



## Gregmega

lemeneid said:


> “I will buy this”??


‘I will borrow this’ 

and let you know later


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Here are two Mazaki 270mm sujihiki: one stainless from JNS, around the time of the first few batches, one white from CKC from the second-latest batch. Had a little trouble holding everything to get the choil shot, and it’s not a perfect comparison as it‘s KU vs migaki.


----------



## Moooza

I saw a 270mm Mazascus gyuto recently, I thought it was really flat, like a Masamoto KS. Anyone think the same?


----------



## RockyBasel

This must be the blue 1 from ProTooling?


----------



## tcmx3

btw having just sharpened a different (actually very nice/good knife) I want to comment on how nice my Mazaki is to sharpen.

very little correction was needed on mine, very little. sure it's not the thinnest knife out there but to me this is one of those little signs of quality that make a difference.


----------



## daddy yo yo

Comparison of
250 Migaki from CC June 2019
240 KU from CKC June 2020

Migaki left





Migaki left





KU left


----------



## damiano

lemeneid said:


> Got a few Mazakis of my own. Not impressed by them to be honest. And his current prices are reaching Toyama/Wat territory and I’d rather stick with them.
> 
> I’ve played the TF lottery all my life and have been winning. Only had one bad knife which after a quick tuneup, turned out to be one of my best in the drawer now.


Appreciate the honesty.


----------



## Ben.G.

daddy yo yo said:


> Comparison of
> 250 Migaki from CC June 2019
> 240 KU from CKC June 2020
> 
> Migaki left
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Migaki left
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KU left


I love the profile of that KU. It checks all the boxes for me.


----------



## daddy yo yo

lemeneid said:


> Got a few Mazakis of my own. Not impressed by them to be honest. And his current prices are reaching Toyama/Wat territory and I’d rather stick with them.


I can understand that. Me too, I think with rising prices, the expectations for better overall performance rises. If any knife doesn't deliver and live up to those higher expectations, well, it may have a hard time to sell...

Comparing with Watanabe is comparing with a benchmark. However, also Watanabe isn't perfect (see thread for delamination issues). And I think that Watanabe knives are still more expensive than Mazaki!


lemeneid said:


> I’ve played the TF lottery all my life and have been winning. Only had one bad knife which after a quick tuneup, turned out to be one of my best in the drawer now.


You mentioned TF and Mazaki, so I'll play that game.
Mazaki KU gyuto in 240 size at CKC currently sells for 283 US$.
I see 3 TF lines.

Nashiji 38,500 JPY (~370 USD)
Maboroshi 55,000 JPY (~528 USD)
Denka 88,000 JPY (~845 USD)
Even the biggest TF-fanboys admit that TF knives can be project knives. At least this is how they argue poor F&F issues all over the knives. That makes me wonder! With a Mazaki KU being almost 100 US$ cheaper than the cheapest TF, almost 250 US$ cheaper than the middle knife, and almost 560 US$ cheaper than Denkas, I keep asking myself why a TF is so great and why one accepts to make changes on the knives, why should one buy a TF? I mean, you can see Mazaki knives as project knives, too. They're even (much) cheaper...

Anyway, not here to bash TF, this is a thread about Mazaki. I have mentioned it before, I have a hard time with the ever-changing shapes of Mazaki knives from batch to batch, but hey, maybe that's his way to evolve... I have 5 Mazaki knives, and I like every single one of them. I think they're great value for the money. However, I do know quite well what blade shapes I like, and I carefully choose if I buy from a specific batch or not...

EDIT: I do own a TF Nashiji which I really like. And I'd love to get myself a 240 Denka (wa; blade-only) when I will be in Tokyo next time. Have some very nice handles for such a blade at home... But I am still hesitant because of those F&F issues, overgrinds, etc., and prices for Denkas are, well, some may say a rip-off!


----------



## daddy yo yo

The 270 beast is mine. Nastily bit me!!!


----------



## daveb

Pics or it didn't happen


----------



## Gregmega

daddy yo yo said:


> I can understand that. Me too, I think with rising prices, the expectations for better overall performance rises. If any knife doesn't deliver and live up to those higher expectations, well, it may have a hard time to sell...
> 
> Comparing with Watanabe is comparing with a benchmark. However, also Watanabe isn't perfect (see thread for delamination issues). And I think that Watanabe knives are still more expensive than Mazaki!
> 
> You mentioned TF and Mazaki, so I'll play that game.
> Mazaki KU gyuto in 240 size at CKC currently sells for 283 US$.
> I see 3 TF lines.
> 
> Nashiji 38,500 JPY (~370 USD)
> Maboroshi 55,000 JPY (~528 USD)
> Denka 88,000 JPY (~845 USD)
> Even the biggest TF-fanboys admit that TF knives can be project knives. At least this is how they argue poor F&F issues all over the knives. That makes me wonder! With a Mazaki KU being almost 100 US$ cheaper than the cheapest TF, almost 250 US$ cheaper than the middle knife, and almost 560 US$ cheaper than Denkas, I keep asking myself why a TF is so great and why one accepts to make changes on the knives, why should one buy a TF? I mean, you can see Mazaki knives as project knives, too. They're even (much) cheaper...
> 
> Anyway, not here to bash TF, this is a thread about Mazaki. I have mentioned it before, I have a hard time with the ever-changing shapes of Mazaki knives from batch to batch, but hey, maybe that's his way to evolve... I have 5 Mazaki knives, and I like every single one of them. I think they're great value for the money. However, I do know quite well what blade shapes I like, and I carefully choose if I buy from a specific batch or not...
> 
> EDIT: I do own a TF Nashiji which I really like. And I'd love to get myself a 240 Denka (wa; blade-only) when I will be in Tokyo next time. Have some very nice handles for such a blade at home... But I am still hesitant because of those F&F issues, overgrinds, etc., and prices for Denkas are, well, some may say a rip-off!


TF owners are the Southern Baptists of knife collectors. Facts don’t matter. In medical circles it’s called Cognitive Dissonance.


----------



## daddy yo yo

Gregmega said:


> TF owners are the Southern Baptists of knife collectors. Facts don’t matter. In medical circles it’s called Cognitive Dissonance.


You made my day!!!


----------



## daddy yo yo

daveb said:


> Pics or it didn't happen


Well, I have a white kitchen, like really white. Today, for the first time, I understood why my gf likes black kitchens...

Anyone know Austrian painter/artist Hermann Nitsch? Google him if you don’t...


----------



## preizzo

daddy yo yo said:


> Well, I have a white kitchen, like really white. Today, for the first time, I understood why my gf likes black kitchens...
> 
> Anyone know Austrian painter/artist Hermann Nitsch? Google him if you don’t...


Kamon


----------



## Barmoley

Gregmega said:


> TF owners are the Southern Baptists of knife collectors. Facts don’t matter. In medical circles it’s called Cognitive Dissonance.



But the Denka I have is really good, what do I do with that? I've tried to convince myself that it is not the case, but I can't


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

It’s weird to talk about TF in a Mazaki thread but why not.

My 240 Mab has good geometry ootb and a beautiful weight distribution, but the f&f on the handle is crap and most importantly after a while of use I found the steel very chippy. I mean it’s even chippy on a hasegawa soft rubber board. I’ll keep it for raw protein but I can’t recommend it for the $400 price range.

My 210 Denka’s wide bevel is too thick ootb so it wedged at the beginning. After some thinning it cuts well so I’ve been exclusively using it for a week and half. The steel is indeed very nice as it’s easier to sharpen than Watanabe b2 and kato wh, and feels really sharp and toothy after 10 meals (it’s the 10th meal today). I feel like the sharpness stopped declining after the 5th meal and it has maintained a very good level. And it’s also tougher than Wat b2 steel and Kato wh steel (I compared the edges using 100x microscope). However IMHO it’s too expensive for what it offers compared to a Watayama. A Wat might take more time to sharpen but it’s still nothing difficult. The edge retention of Wat is also very good and more than sufficient for me. And Wat is also reasonably tough. And Wat has a nearly perfect grind ootb. Maybe a 240 denka will feel wonderful, but it would cost a 240 Watayama plus a sg 500, a chosera 800, a chosera 3000, and a hasegawa cutting board all combined.


----------



## Mikeadunne

lol, every thread degenerates into a tf discussion eventually


----------



## daveb

WTFWTFWTFWTFWTF


----------



## tcmx3

if Mazaki actually makes all knives and all threads eventually go to TF then logically all threads eventually become about Mazaki


----------



## captaincaed

I like my TF for what it is, probably won't get rid of it. But I looked at some in a shop today...Man those grinds are wonky. No two profiles alike. Compared to all the neighbors, just facetted all over the place. I honestly probably wouldn't buy one any more, with what I know today.

I also have a Mazaki, just to keep it topical.


----------



## Corradobrit1

TF>Maz


----------



## JimMaple98

Got my first Mazaki today, traded my yoshi for it here on kkf.
its a JNS charcoal edition 240 Kasumi, immediate impressions is this is one heavy mumma compared to my other knives. Lotta belly in the profile, I have a K&S 240 Maz Kasumi on the way as well soon, whichever falls short of the other will end up on BST.

Excited to try this on the stones, this will be the highest hrc knife I would have ever sharpened. I will be taking this to work tomorrow to see if it jives with me, as it has for a lot of you.

She has some scratches and minor wear, but that’s how i like ‘em, keeps me from babying it too much and not using it to its full potential.

Thanks for bringing mazaki into my sights guys, next to try is a TF Mab 210!


----------



## labor of love

Corradobrit1 said:


> TF>Maz


----------



## Gregmega

tcmx3 said:


> if Mazaki actually makes all knives and all threads eventually go to TF then logically all threads eventually become about Mazaki


Effin’ meta bro


----------



## daddy yo yo

Quick update: the 2nd encounter with the new 270 Mazaki KU from CKC was characterized by a more respectful approach - at least from my side! I can confirm that the added weight of that knife makes the blade glide through everything, fingernails and flesh included!  I am glad that our 2nd encounter went peacefully and involved no blood (there is only little left anyway)!


----------



## cotedupy

I just have the one Mazaki, a 150 W2 petty, and there's lots I love about it; weight, grind, taper, veg release, how it takes an edge.

But this aspect is slightly annoying - was completely clean and dry, get it out a couple of weeks later...






Still, it meant I got to try my hand at re-doing kasumi. This was my first time, quite quickly, late at night, and fairly drunk (ho ho). So don't be too critical eh!


----------



## daddy yo yo

cotedupy said:


> I just have the one Mazaki, a 150 W2 petty, and there's lots I love about it; weight, grind, taper, veg release, how it takes an edge.
> 
> But this aspect is slightly annoying - was completely clean and dry, get it out a couple of weeks later...
> 
> View attachment 106485
> 
> 
> Still, it meant I got to try my hand at re-doing kasumi. This was my first time, quite quickly, late at night, and fairly drunk (ho ho). So don't be too critical eh!
> 
> View attachment 106486


I have a 180 petty which was one of the nicest knife purchases ever. I didn't need it and thought I wouldn't use it much because I don't need a 180 petty. But I love to use it.

Your 150 has a nice handle! And how did you do that quick Kasumi?


----------



## cotedupy

daddy yo yo said:


> I have a 180 petty which was one of the nicest knife purchases ever. I didn't need it and thought I wouldn't use it much because I don't need a 180 petty. But I love to use it.
> 
> Your 150 has a nice handle! And how did you do that quick Kasumi?



Ah cheers! Was the first re-handling I did on one of my posher knives, a couple of months ago: A(nother) hanlde. Mazaki re-imagined

The kasumi was just on my 1200 King deluxe, which I read somewhere were quite good for it, so thought I'd give it a go. It came out alright I think , albeit not particularly even and exact.


----------



## tcmx3

btw does anyone else find theirs harder to remove the burr on than some other knives? Ive put Yoshikane, Kato and Ittetsu on stones recently too and finshed on the same aizu stone but with the Mazaki I was really struggling to get the burr to come clean off. in the end I kind of gave up trying to do it on the stone and went to CBN compound on a strop...


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

tcmx3 said:


> btw does anyone else find theirs harder to remove the burr on than some other knives? Ive put Yoshikane, Kato and Ittetsu on stones recently too and finshed on the same aizu stone but with the Mazaki I was really struggling to get the burr to come clean off. in the end I kind of gave up trying to do it on the stone and went to CBN compound on a strop...


Same experience here. My Mazaki Ku white 2 is very tough and not the easiest to deburr. Edge leading strokes will do it though.


----------



## Matt Jacobs

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Same experience here. My Mazaki Ku white 2 is very tough and not the easiest to deburr. Edge leading strokes will do it though.


I only sharpen mine with edge leading strokes and have never had to deal with a burr on it. It Sharpe s so fast and easy I have never even thought about a burr.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Matt Jacobs said:


> I only sharpen mine with edge leading strokes and have never had to deal with a burr on it. It Sharpe s so fast and easy I have never even thought about a burr.


yea... edge leading is really killing it in terms of deburr.


----------



## ref

tostadas said:


> Do you have measurements of your thickness behind the edge (at 5mm, 10mm and 20mm)?
> 
> Just for reference, my Mazaki KU from knifewear purchased earlier this year had a very significant convex behind the edge with minimal if any flat grind below the shinogi line.
> 
> Measurements at midblade:
> 1.0mm @ 5mm
> 1.5mm @ 10mm
> 2.2mm @ 20mm



I've just checked mine and its roughly in line with yours except its around 0.6mm to 0.7mm at 5mm in, half way down the blade. Measuring in this area is quite sensitive though. The other 2 measurements are the same


----------



## aseo45

Hi all, new member to the forum, long time reader though! I’ve owned a Mazaki 210 KU gyuto for a while now and love it. I recently purchased the kasumi 210 from KNS, and have noticed a slight bend in the spine to the right at the very tip. Have any of you noticed any irregularities such as this with your Mazakis? I did a quick search through the forum and couldn’t find any mention of something similar. I do have some broader experience with hand forged and ground knives and know that irregularities are not uncommon!


----------



## Moooza

Quality of mazaki knives is extremely variable. It's improved a little lately, but sometimes it's terrible


----------



## Corradobrit1

aseo45 said:


> Hi all, new member to the forum, long time reader though! I’ve owned a Mazaki 210 KU gyuto for a while now and love it. I recently purchased the kasumi 210 from KNS, and have noticed a slight bend in the spine to the right at the very tip. Have any of you noticed any irregularities such as this with your Mazakis? I did a quick search through the forum and couldn’t find any mention of something similar. I do have some broader experience with hand forged and ground knives and know that irregularities are not uncommon!


Pics would help. Is the edge straight?


----------



## M1k3

aseo45 said:


> Hi all, new member to the forum, long time reader though! I’ve owned a Mazaki 210 KU gyuto for a while now and love it. I recently purchased the kasumi 210 from KNS, and have noticed a slight bend in the spine to the right at the very tip. Have any of you noticed any irregularities such as this with your Mazakis? I did a quick search through the forum and couldn’t find any mention of something similar. I do have some broader experience with hand forged and ground knives and know that irregularities are not uncommon!


It could of bent in shipping. It's clad with a softer material so it'll be easy to fix. Pictures will help us sort it for you.


----------



## Jville

aseo45 said:


> Hi all, new member to the forum, long time reader though! I’ve owned a Mazaki 210 KU gyuto for a while now and love it. I recently purchased the kasumi 210 from KNS, and have noticed a slight bend in the spine to the right at the very tip. Have any of you noticed any irregularities such as this with your Mazakis? I did a quick search through the forum and couldn’t find any mention of something similar. I do have some broader experience with hand forged and ground knives and know that irregularities are not uncommon!


Honestly his knives are thick and all the ones ive handled have been straight. That is not an issue ive seen come up much or something i'd expect from him. If it's truly weirdly bent and not just the taper playing a trick on your eye, i would "maybe" return it. Probably going to have to post some good pics and do some tests to check it out for sure.


----------



## IsoJ

aseo45 said:


> Hi all, new member to the forum, long time reader though! I’ve owned a Mazaki 210 KU gyuto for a while now and love it. I recently purchased the kasumi 210 from KNS, and have noticed a slight bend in the spine to the right at the very tip. Have any of you noticed any irregularities such as this with your Mazakis? I did a quick search through the forum and couldn’t find any mention of something similar. I do have some broader experience with hand forged and ground knives and know that irregularities are not uncommon!


Should not be the problem with Mazakis in general but anything can happen during shipping etc. You could try look the blade straightness in natural light from all angles. The distal taper may play a little tricks too and some angles may show that spine is bent when it isnt. Try to take some pictures and Post here


----------



## daddy yo yo

Moooza said:


> Quality of mazaki knives is extremely variable. It's improved a little lately, but sometimes it's terrible


Meaning it is still wwwaaayyy better than any TF...


----------



## aseo45

Many thanks for the replies and apologies for the delayed response, a bit busy ushering in the new year . Will post photos later today. The edge is also a bit bent from straight, as far as I can tell.


----------



## Jovidah

TMTMTMTMTMTM?


----------



## M1k3

Jovidah said:


> TMTMTMTMTMTM?


NMNMNMNMNMNM!


----------



## aseo45

Alright, my attempts at capturing the perceived bend at the tip.

Bend to the right






Bend away from the book





Bend towards the book





As I spent a solid 15 mins trying to take photos of this, the absurdity of how slight the bend is (if there even is one) really dawned on me... I appreciate you all indulging my knife neurosis


----------



## stereo.pete

From the pictures it looks like it was ground that way and not actually bent, I could be wrong though.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Yes I can see it. If the edge is also bent as you suggest I'd probably return it. I had a Xerxes Primus II with a similar deviation and equally thin towards the tip and it really bugged me. Its most likely occurred during the HT rather than being ground that way


----------



## aseo45

Thank you both for the feedback! The edge is curved as well (harder to capture on camera), which leads me to believe it may be a HT issue as well. I think I’ll go ahead and email KNS about it, think it’s been nagging at me enough.


----------



## aseo45

Hi all, just a quick update. I attempted to gently bend the tip back into place and succeeded. I’ll see if it slowly returns to bent over time, but I’ve decided to keep the knife and see this through. Thanks all for your input and advice.


----------



## McMan

stereo.pete said:


> From the pictures it looks like it was ground that way and not actually bent, I could be wrong though.


I was thinking the same thing.
Some thoughts... Have you checked at just the edge? The edge can be straight but if there is slightly more meat above the edge and/or at the spine on one side of the tip, it'll make it look bent at the tip and will make the tip rise higher one one side than the other if the whole blade is placed on a flat surface. I always check at just the edge (using the back of a diamond plate as a flat surface). This'll also show if there is a bend at the spine but not the edge.
Or, the thing is just bent


----------



## aseo45

McMan said:


> I was thinking the same thing.
> Some thoughts... Have you checked at just the edge? The edge can be straight but if there is slightly more meat above the edge and/or at the spine on one side of the tip, it'll make it look bent at the tip and will make the tip rise higher one one side than the other if the whole blade is placed on a flat surface. I always check at just the edge (using the back of a diamond plate as a flat surface). This'll also show if there is a bend at the spine but not the edge.
> Or, the thing is just bent


Thanks for the tip, yes checked the edge, which was bent along the same line as the spine. I tried taking photos but it was more difficult to capture than the spine. Fortunately this has been successfully remedied with some moderate force against the back of my cutting board!


----------



## BillHanna

KNS has a printout of the new MNMNMNMNMNMN profile. I think that,s some pretty sweet customer service.


----------



## Moooza

Or the profile is so different* that it's in their best interest to avoid returns, etc.


----------



## BillHanna

Same difference to me. It’s still saving “you” some time. Even if you’re not interested in buying, you can compare some aspects to what you already have.


----------



## AT5760

It’s a pretty cool thing for KNS to do. Also nice for them/James to say what we’ve all observed and recognize that Mazaki’s work is evolving.


----------



## Jason183

Anyone tried the new KS profile Mazaki yet? The edge seems pretty straight liked the Yoshikane


----------



## TSF415

They look interesting. If I could buy a knife right now I’d grab one. 


What’s the deal with the hon-sanmai white 2 vs the regular Migaki white 2 other than the $200 difference?


----------



## spaceconvoy

He forges the laminated billets in the "hon-sanmai" line, while the regular migaki is pre-laminated


----------



## Duukt

Are these DEC2020 knives the same as what was sold in November? I bought one during thanksgiving and it looks exactly the same as these and since then they were out of stock till recently. The blue steel versions appear to be slightly shorter at the heel though.


----------



## parbaked

I like how all the versions measure exactly same...??


----------



## stereo.pete

I ordered one as I’ve been waiting for them to come back in stock. Here’s hoping he has been continuing to improve! This will be my first taste or Mazaki’s bladesmithing.


----------



## Giovanny Torres

stereo.pete said:


> I ordered one as I’ve been waiting for them to come back in stock. Here’s hoping he has been continuing to improve! This will be my first taste or Mazaki’s bladesmithing.


Please give us your impressions once you try it out.


----------



## tcmx3

as Ive continued to use mine, I like it more and more.

the main thing I wish he would do differently though is finish them a bit better. I feel like Im still trying to polish scratches out of the core steel lmao.

Im really tempted to buy a second one but I have a shi.han coming up and Ive bought two suitas this month so gonna wait for the next round I think.


----------



## tcmx3

btw I feel like every time I post I mention that I like the knife more, and it continues to be true.

I think the K&S version is really a wonderful knife in a lot of respects that have become more obvious to me over time. an excellent example is how good the balance is for such a heavy knife; I recently picked up a Hinoura and even though that knife is 75g lighter it feels like a hammer compared to the Mazaki.


----------



## Twotimehojo

tcmx3 said:


> btw I feel like every time I post I mention that I like the knife more, and it continues to be true.
> 
> I think the K&S version is really a wonderful knife in a lot of respects that have become more obvious to me over time. an excellent example is how good the balance is for such a heavy knife; I recently picked up a Hinoura and even though that knife is 75g lighter it feels like a hammer compared to the Mazaki.


 
I believe the Hinoura feels heavier because the center of gravity is more blade forward. My Shun is heavier but feels ridiculously lighter. Its interesting how the c.g. can affect how it feels in the hand! I am still warming up to my Hinoura;


----------



## tcmx3

Twotimehojo said:


> I believe the Hinoura feels heavier because the center of gravity is more blade forward. My Shun is heavier but feels ridiculously lighter. Its interesting how the c.g. can affect how it feels in the hand! I am still warming up to my Hinoura;



yep, hinoura 210 is quite long for a 210 (mine is >220mm) and tall so balance point is way out front.

like the Mazaki, Im going to thin it out a bit, but I'll probably go a fair bit further on the hinoura to shave some weight. luckily hinoura steel is a lot softer than mazaki lol


----------



## Barry's Knives

I have one of these Mazakis. It's a really nice knife. The steel is super hard and it feels very sturdy in hand. On stones it doesn't have the best feedback and feels somewhat glassy. The taper is spot on so that you can do finer work with the tip, athough it still doesnt glide through onions as easy as some other knives. The profile is very flat - too flat for my taste as I like a bit of belly, but I appreciate that it's an aspect a lot of forum members like. Overall though it's a great knife. Still think they're fantastic value for money.


----------



## Barry's Knives

...for reference, mine is from here:








Yoshihiro Nashiji High Carbon White Steel #2 Gyuto Japanese Chefs Knif


*Recommended to purchase with Custom-Cut Saya Knife Cover Sheath It takes a very high degree of skill to create knives of such exceptional performance and exquisite beauty with a steel of this caliber and is a testament to the extraordinary skill of the artisans. The most versatile and essential...




echefknife.com


----------



## preizzo

Toghter with the Damascus clad ,this aogami 1 is so far the best of all mazaki I have tried


----------



## preizzo

The mazaki BBQ from jns are the ones with worse grind and deeper marks . All the others are better grinded (not all of course)
In terms of heat treat the jns BBQ are a bit better ,harder on the stones but also more prone to chip in my experience (I have owned 12 at )

Just few words


----------



## JayS20

preizzo said:


> Toghter with the Damascus clad ,this aogami 1 is so far the best of all mazaki I have tried


What makes it the best?


----------



## preizzo

JayS20 said:


> What makes it the best?


Grind ,shape ,balance ,heat treat ,edge retention


----------



## Gregmega

JayS20 said:


> What makes it the best?


My dammy clad is easily the best of the probably 15+ I’ve owned. Best grind, balance, ratios, finish. Just another huge level up. Completely through your and flawless execution. But the steel on the gen 1 nashiji is still the best of the bunch imo.


----------



## RockyBasel

preizzo said:


> Grind ,shape ,balance ,heat treat ,edge retention


Is this the one from pro-tooling?


----------



## tostadas

JimMaple98 said:


> Got my first Mazaki today, traded my yoshi for it here on kkf.
> its a JNS charcoal edition 240 Kasumi, immediate impressions is this is one heavy mumma compared to my other knives. Lotta belly in the profile, I have a K&S 240 Maz Kasumi on the way as well soon, whichever falls short of the other will end up on BST.
> 
> Excited to try this on the stones, this will be the highest hrc knife I would have ever sharpened. I will be taking this to work tomorrow to see if it jives with me, as it has for a lot of you.
> 
> She has some scratches and minor wear, but that’s how i like ‘em, keeps me from babying it too much and not using it to its full potential.
> 
> Thanks for bringing mazaki into my sights guys, next to try is a TF Mab 210!



Is your K&S version one of the newer ones? Any thoughts about it?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

K&S 1st run of Mazaki knives from years ago. Haven’t found one after that comes close. Closest thing to an old school Kato STD that I have. 285 bucks 





to my door.


----------



## Duukt

What angle should we be sharpening these knives edges? I'm still on the original edge which appears to be a zero grind. I was wondering if it can handle a 10 dps edge?


----------



## Gregmega

Chicagohawkie said:


> K&S 1st run of Mazaki knives from years ago. Haven’t found one after that comes close. Closest thing to an old school Kato STD that I have. 285 bucks View attachment 110745
> View attachment 110746
> to my door.


I agree. I now have 3 of the first gen with the draped nose/kato vibe. They’re still the overall best in that price point.

But he really took the gloves off on the b series and the dammy. Really works of art.


----------



## tcmx3

Duukt said:


> What angle should we be sharpening these knives edges? I'm still on the original edge which appears to be a zero grind. I was wondering if it can handle a 10 dps edge?



depends on your board and what you're cutting.

tbh Id just sharpen it aggressively and if it's too much you can always put a bit chunkier microbevel on it.

I also would not do 10 + 10, though 20 degrees inclusive could be fine since the steel is SO hard.


----------



## KKL81

Duukt said:


> What angle should we be sharpening these knives edges? I'm still on the original edge which appears to be a zero grind. I was wondering if it can handle a 10 dps edge?



If the ootb zero grind is not chipping, then any angle higher than the grind angle will chip even less, I suppose?


----------



## Duukt

tcmx3 said:


> depends on your board and what you're cutting.
> 
> tbh Id just sharpen it aggressively and if it's too much you can always put a bit chunkier microbevel on it.
> 
> I also would not do 10 + 10, though 20 degrees inclusive could be fine since the steel is SO hard.



I have a maple boardsmith on its way. So far I've been using a plastic board.

I didn't understand the second part, does that mean I can do 5 + 15? I sharpen with a work sharp so I can't probably do sub-10 anyway.


----------



## Duukt

KKL81 said:


> If the ootb zero grind is not chipping, then any angle higher than the grind angle will chip even less, I suppose?


I've been using it since the end of november and stropping on a work sharp leather belt. Haven't had any issues yet and the knife has been great overall. I'm not sure what angle the edge had out-of-the-box but I've been cutting only soft vegetables and chicken and avoiding slamming the edge onto the cutting board.

Aron at K&S said I could just sharpen similar to other j-knives so 12 degrees and 50/50.


----------



## tcmx3

Duukt said:


> I have a maple boardsmith on its way. So far I've been using a plastic board.
> 
> I didn't understand the second part, does that mean I can do 5 + 15? I sharpen with a work sharp so I can't probably do sub-10 anyway.



I mean I sharpen on stones, but Id estimate Im doing closer to 20/10 degrees, maybe even a bit steeper.

but I dont like running my microbevels that thin; most of a kitchen knife's performance comes from what's behind that tiny little bevel, so the less acute angle can prevent chipping smashing it against your board. 

just my experience.


----------



## Duukt

Thanks. I guess I'll stick to something safe for now like 15°


----------



## Chicagohawkie

Gregmega said:


> I agree. I now have 3 of the first gen with the draped nose/kato vibe. They’re still the overall best in that price point.
> 
> But he really took the gloves off on the b series and the dammy. Really works of art.


I’m good with what I’ve got, just a home user. I wouldn’t know about the blue or dammy steels. But at the price points I’ve seen, especially the Damascus. I would have zero interest.


----------



## TSF415

I don’t think his blue pricing is that out there. I got my blue2 for under $500 which is cheaper than a Wat with non ho handle and on par with a lot of aogami knives. It’s just a lot more then his white2. 

Damascus on the other hand I can’t even comprehend. Lol. That’s out of my league anyways.


----------



## AT5760

I’m reading these comments and it feels like reading about muscle cars from the 60s - the name stayed the same but the car changed from year to year. I’m really hoping we’re not moving into the Mustang II era, because I still need to get my act together and try one of his gyutos.


----------



## stereo.pete

AT5760 said:


> I’m reading these comments and it feels like reading about muscle cars from the 60s - the name stayed the same but the car changed from year to year. I’m really hope we’re not moving into the Mustang II era, because I still need to get my act together and try one of his gyutos.



You and me both, but from my experience with craftsmen, they typically get better with time.


----------



## Nagakin

No one else finds the newest profile icky? I was going to try his blue this time since I've had 5 w#2s, but just couldn't do it. If someone is selling an older one lmk though.


----------



## AT5760

@Nagakin, it looks like CleanCut has the old profile still in stock.


----------



## Nagakin

AT5760 said:


> @Nagakin, it looks like CleanCut has the old profile still in stock.


Looking for an older blue, thanks though.


----------



## JimMaple98

tostadas said:


> Is your K&S version one of the newer ones? Any thoughts about it?


No sorry it’s a bit older, batch before this new set, good flat profile though I have to say!


----------



## Barmoley

What’s odd to me is why only sell blue 2 and blue 1 to mazaki customers only.


----------



## tcmx3

Barmoley said:


> What’s odd to me is why only sell blue 2 and blue 1 to mazaki customers only.



probably to cut down on arbitrage.

which, frankly, is an extremely admirable goal.


----------



## Barmoley

tcmx3 said:


> probably to cut down on arbitrage.
> 
> which, frankly, is an extremely admirable goal.


Why would this cut down on arbitrage? Are previous mazaki customers less likely to resell?

I also don’t understand why a vendor or maker would care. They set the original price, if someone wants to resell, what’s the problem?


----------



## ref

Duukt said:


> What angle should we be sharpening these knives edges? I'm still on the original edge which appears to be a zero grind. I was wondering if it can handle a 10 dps edge?



I don't think the ootb edge will be a zero grind, there is likely a bevel there although it should be rather small.


----------



## Duukt

ref said:


> I don't think the ootb edge will be a zero grind, there is likely a bevel there although it should be rather small.


I just wasn't able to see the bevel so it probably is really tiny. I don't know how these sharpeners make it so small since the videos of japanese bladesmiths usually show them sharpening by hand.


----------



## ref

Duukt said:


> I just wasn't able to see the bevel so it probably is really tiny. I don't know how these sharpeners make it so small since the videos of japanese bladesmiths usually show them sharpening by hand.



The blade will be very thin and flat ground before they sharpen it, so it's possible to put on a very very small bevel, it doesn't take much time at all.

Tbh my mazaki ootb edges were not that good and I just sharpened them anyway.


----------



## Duukt

Agreed, my mazaki couldn't push cut paper ootb. After stropping with the leather belt and white crayon, it was able to go through the paper pretty smoothly and I haven't felt the need to sharpen. Now I just want it to cut like a Takamura R2 on the tip.


----------



## stereo.pete




----------



## AT5760

Is the profile as dead flat as it looks?


----------



## Jville

Duukt said:


> Agreed, my mazaki couldn't push cut paper ootb. After stropping with the leather belt and white crayon, it was able to go through the paper pretty smoothly and I haven't felt the need to sharpen. Now I just want it to cut like a Takamura R2 on the tip.


Both of the blues that i got came swingin OOTB, really nice edges.


----------



## Jason183

stereo.pete said:


> View attachment 111093
> 
> View attachment 111094
> 
> View attachment 111095


Nice profile, just liked the KS, really liked that pointy tip.


----------



## ragz

stereo.pete said:


> View attachment 111093
> 
> View attachment 111094
> 
> View attachment 111095



Based on these I went ahead and picked up the last one on k&s . I've been meaning to try a mazaki for a while. Your pics spoke to me.


----------



## stereo.pete

AT5760 said:


> Is the profile as dead flat as it looks?



I'll post a better picture of the profile for you today. @ragz congrats, this was my first one as well!


----------



## stereo.pete

@AT5760 

I added a new picture showing the flat spot in the original post.


----------



## AT5760

Thanks @stereo.pete !


----------



## Jason183

stereo.pete said:


> @AT5760
> 
> I added a new picture showing the flat spot in the original post.


Not too much flat spot than I Expected, Very nice


----------



## tostadas

stereo.pete said:


> I'll post a better picture of the profile for you today. @ragz congrats, this was my first one as well!


210 or 240?


----------



## Gregmega

Chicagohawkie said:


> I’m good with what I’ve got, just a home user. I wouldn’t know about the blue or dammy steels. But at the price points I’ve seen, especially the Damascus. I would have zero interest.


It was a struggle for me as well, but I look at them the way I used to look at yo shigs- legacy knives. I passed on a couple shigs back in the day that were sub 1k and I kick myself. They’re only getting more expensive. Like buying Bitcoin, it’s going to 100k, this is a fact. So buy now cry later


----------



## Gregmega

stereo.pete said:


> View attachment 111093
> 
> View attachment 111094
> 
> View attachment 111095
> 
> View attachment 111163


Awesome. Reminds me of the gen 2 JNS. I have one and it’s an absolute gem.


----------



## Duukt

I printed the pdf of the Dec 2020 profile and compared it to my Nov 2020 blade and it looks different to me. Anyone think otherwise?




I measured the dimensions vs values printed on the file - while the vertical was close (2 1/16 inches), the horizontal is exactly 9 inches even though the text file says 240mm. Hopefully my browser didn't alter the aspect ratio.


----------



## Jason183

Duukt said:


> I printed the pdf of the Dec 2020 profile and compared it to my Nov 2020 blade and it looks different to me. Anyone think otherwise?
> View attachment 111199
> 
> I measured the dimensions vs values printed on the file - while the vertical was close (2 1/16 inches), the horizontal is exactly 9 inches even though the text file says 240mm. Hopefully my browser didn't alter the aspect ratio.


I think is different, the Dec batch has more pointing tip liked the KS


----------



## Duukt

Jason183 said:


> I think is different, the Dec batch has more pointing tip liked the KS


Definitely. Eyeballing the knife on the KnS website, I couldn't tell but with the printout, it is a lot easier to see.


----------



## stereo.pete

tostadas said:


> 210 or 240?



240


----------



## captaincaed

stereo.pete said:


> View attachment 111093
> 
> View attachment 111094
> 
> View attachment 111095
> 
> View attachment 111163


I went to carbon last month and spent way to long deciding between this and the SKD Yoshi. How's this guy as a performer?

My call was because of the reactive cladding (for my taste) but I'm still really curious about how this model moves through food.


----------



## tcmx3

captaincaed said:


> I went to carbon last month and spent way to long deciding between this and the SKD Yoshi. How's this guy as a performer?
> 
> My call was because of the reactive cladding (for my taste) but I'm still really curious about how this model moves through food.



just spend hours trying to polish out Mazaki's deep scratches and when you do the reactivity of the cladding calms down a lot

or at least it did on my example. I also brought the bevels on mine up quite a bit higher so the knife is halfway between where it started and full convex lol. looks kinda janky but cuts like an absolute demon.


----------



## JaVa

stereo.pete said:


> View attachment 111093
> 
> View attachment 111094
> 
> View attachment 111095
> 
> View attachment 111163


Really starting to like the current Mazaki offerings. That thing really looks like a vegetable weapon of mass (or Maz) distruction. Looks so good in these pics.

Early in this thread, when JNS introduced Mazaki knives I mentioned I need to sit out because every batch was so different and the dude was still clearly in development phases trying find his groove.

To me these look like he found it. That grind and profile looks just so effective. First Mazaki I'm getting drawn to.


----------



## Jason183

If I’m going to get a full reactive carbon knife, this KS Mazaki is the one I’m going to get


----------



## stereo.pete

captaincaed said:


> I went to carbon last month and spent way to long deciding between this and the SKD Yoshi. How's this guy as a performer?
> 
> My call was because of the reactive cladding (for my taste) but I'm still really curious about how this model moves through food.



I haven’t had a chance to really use it. I’ve picked up too many knives recently and I’ve been primarily using one knife to really focus on improving my sharpening technique. I’ll report back when I’ve had a chance to put it through its’ paces.


----------



## captaincaed

tcmx3 said:


> just spend hours trying to polish out Mazaki's deep scratches and when you do the reactivity of the cladding calms down a lot
> 
> or at least it did on my example. I also brought the bevels on mine up quite a bit higher so the knife is halfway between where it started and full convex lol. looks kinda janky but cuts like an absolute demon.


Thank you, sounds like with a little tuning, it.can be quite good. 

I still can't decide if Mizuno or Mazaki has more reactive cladding. Want to love both but that always makes me pause.


----------



## Viggetorr

My Mazaki isn't very reactive at all, and this is coming from a guy who once woved never to buy any carbon clad knives again (after being annoyed with my Kagekiyos reactivity).


----------



## Cliff

I have a couple. They were pretty reactive at first -- and now, after polishing -- but they settle(d) down quickly. Once they take a patina, no worries, though I'm a home cook.


----------



## TSF415

My mizuno is way more reactive then any maz I have.


----------



## captaincaed

I may be overly fussy about iron cladding


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Honestly I’ve liked every Mazaki I’ve ever had from the first batch. I’m no preizzo but I’ve had five or six, got 3 at the moment. Reactive cladding I think is something you either eventually get used to or eventually get sick of.


----------



## Gregmega

GorillaGrunt said:


> Honestly I’ve liked every Mazaki I’ve ever had from the first batch. I’m no preizzo but I’ve had five or six, got 3 at the moment. Reactive cladding I think is something you either eventually get used to or eventually get sick of.


Or eventually gray it with use like a champ


----------



## captaincaed

Or orange it with use like Panda


----------



## Twotimehojo

Would like to hear comments from anyone who has purchased the Maz 180 KU Nashiji petty from CKC since November of 2020? That is the last batch and current batch in inventory. 

Thanks!


----------



## JimMaple98

New Mazaki profile available at Protooling, including 240’s.
My fellow aussies, rejoice


----------



## Barry's Knives

JimMaple98 said:


> New Mazaki profile available at Protooling, including 240’s.
> My fellow aussies, rejoice


the 270 migaki looks sublime


----------



## Barry's Knives

does anyone know what this kanji means: 


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2098/3449/products/MazakiFeb21_057_1024x1024.jpg?v=1613534436


----------



## Vdark

Barry's Knives said:


> does anyone know what this kanji means:
> 
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2098/3449/products/MazakiFeb21_057_1024x1024.jpg?v=1613534436


White
Two


----------



## Jason183

Barry's Knives said:


> does anyone know what this kanji means:
> 
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2098/3449/products/MazakiFeb21_057_1024x1024.jpg?v=1613534436


White #2


----------



## FishmanDE

captaincaed said:


> I may be overly fussy about iron cladding



Im the same way. I'm waiting for my first Maz gyuto to come in after I said F it and pulled the trigger on a Iron clad. Time will tell


----------



## Barry's Knives

ah ok. looks weird in that handwriting


----------



## JoBone

Here’s a profile post of 2021 Damascus B1 and B2 

Edited : (B1 on top)

You can the variation between this B1 and B2, so it looks like each one is unique.

The choils are different from 2020, with a more stylish look that feels like silk.










Here is an example of 2020 B2


----------



## ModRQC

How much for these babies?


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

JoBone said:


> Here’s a profile post of 2021 Damascus B1 and B2
> 
> You can the variation between this B1 and B2, so it looks like each one is unique.
> 
> The choils are different from 2020, with a more stylish look that feels like silk.
> View attachment 114711
> 
> View attachment 114712
> 
> 
> Here is an example of 2020 B2
> View attachment 114715
> 
> View attachment 114714



@Moooza 

@JoBone on the top picture, which one is which steel?


----------



## JoBone

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> @JoBone on the top picture, which one is which steel?


B1 on top


----------



## Gregmega

JoBone said:


> Here’s a profile post of 2021 Damascus B1 and B2
> 
> Edited : (B1 on top)
> 
> You can the variation between this B1 and B2, so it looks like each one is unique.
> 
> The choils are different from 2020, with a more stylish look that feels like silk.
> View attachment 114711
> 
> View attachment 114712
> 
> 
> Here is an example of 2020 B2
> View attachment 114715
> 
> View attachment 114714


So you’re telling me you have 3 variants. Jeebus Chrixtmas


----------



## Gregmega

ModRQC said:


> How much for these babies?


.10 BTC (1/10)


----------



## Moooza

B1 dammy 240 from Feb 2021. Still very confused by this knife.






Reposting for those who may be interested. The steel type is shown on the knife. BS1 on the left, BS2 on the right:


----------



## JoBone

He also notches the tang to distinguish B1 and B2


----------



## RockyBasel

Moooza said:


> B1 dammy 240 from Feb 2021. Still very confused by this knife.
> 
> View attachment 114770
> 
> 
> Reposting for those who may be interested. The steel type is shown on the knife. BS1 on the left, BS2 on the right:
> View attachment 114771


Is this a different one than the original on ProTooling?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

What’s up with the variance in the kanji? It’s seems to be far more refined than the ones I have/had.


----------



## Moooza

RockyBasel said:


> Is this a different one than the original on ProTooling?


It's the recent one from Protooling, posted on their IG in the last day or two.


----------



## captaincaed

JoBone said:


> He also notches the tang to distinguish B1 and B2
> 
> View attachment 114774


Like the Aeron chair


----------



## wombat

JimMaple98 said:


> New Mazaki profile available at Protooling, including 240’s.
> My fellow aussies, rejoice


Why did I have to open this thread?!


----------



## Moooza

A few Maz dammy's available at Sugi Cutlery.


----------



## RockyBasel

It’s a good price too I think


----------



## Danzo

The new maz profile is calling my name. Question is should I shoot for KU or Migaki? Anyone have both of these for comparison? Ignore that dope dammy version it’s out of my price range.


----------



## daddy yo yo

Danzo said:


> The new maz profile is calling my name. Question is should I shoot for KU or Migaki? Anyone have both of these for comparison? Ignore that dope dammy version it’s out of my price range.


I have a Migaki and a KU. Migaki is/was thinner and had more flex. The KU is a beast, a true WH. My vote is for the KU.

I might consider letting my Mazakis go if anyone from EU is interested. Selling to the US won’t make any sense as I had to pay customs and sales tax during import...


----------



## ragz

Danzo said:


> The new maz profile is calling my name. Question is should I shoot for KU or Migaki? Anyone have both of these for comparison? Ignore that dope dammy version it’s out of my price range.



The KU. They're really special right now. Pictures for consideration.


----------



## preizzo

Aogami 1 Damascus clad 240 gyuto


----------



## Danzo

ragz said:


> The KU. They're really special right now. Pictures for consideration.
> View attachment 115151
> View attachment 115152
> 
> View attachment 115153



This is the KNS one with the nice handle upgrade. Currently out of stock so I can’t see the price. CKC has 240 is stock but has that ugly handle, still a good price. What did you pay?


----------



## ragz

Danzo said:


> This is the KNS one with the nice handle upgrade. Currently out of stock so I can’t see the price. CKC has 240 is stock but has that ugly handle, still a good price. What did you pay?



289 USD


----------



## Jville

Danzo said:


> This is the KNS one with the nice handle upgrade. Currently out of stock so I can’t see the price. CKC has 240 is stock but has that ugly handle, still a good price. What did you pay?


I hate those handles. Something about the Walnut ferrule just does not jive with me at all. K&S all the way for me.


----------



## Danzo

Jville said:


> I hate those handles. Something about the Walnut ferrule just does not jive with me at all. K&S all the way for me.



Terrible aren’t they.


----------



## Jason183

ragz said:


> The KU. They're really special right now. Pictures for consideration.
> View attachment 115151
> View attachment 115152
> 
> View attachment 115153



for home cooks, this Mazaki is my #1 recommendation


----------



## Duukt

Jason183 said:


> for home cooks, this Mazaki is my #1 recommendation


Is there any reason besides ease of maintenance? I have the kasumi finished version and thought it was ideal.


----------



## Jason183

Duukt said:


> Is there any reason besides ease of maintenance? I have the kasumi finished version and thought it was ideal.


Doesn’t matter what kind of finish, that KS profile with extra heel height and the robust spine, that’s what I prefer to use at home, true multipurpose gyuto, can do anything with it.


----------



## Duukt

Jason183 said:


> Doesn’t matter what kind of finish, that KS profile with extra heel height and the robust spine, that’s what I prefer to use at home, true multipurpose gyuto, can do anything with it.


Ah got it! I thought you were saying that specific finish was the preferred choice. I like it for how solid it feels when gripped and still feels like a laser since I seem to use the forward half the most.


----------



## fatsumie

I'm trying to understand a bit more about Mazaki knives. 

How come the blue damascus cost three times as much as the ku/migaki white? They also seem to be more sought after too.


----------



## Jason183

fatsumie said:


> I'm trying to understand a bit more about Mazaki knives.
> 
> How come the blue damascus cost three times as much as the ku/migaki white? They also seem to be more sought after too.


Other than the aesthetic, The real Damascus method is very time consuming way of making a blade, you can make 3 KU knives in a same amount of time, think it that way.


----------



## Cbt

Hi.

Just got the new profile 210mm ku gyuto and noticed that there is a little wedging on most vegetables. I think maybe a little thinning might be in order but for some reason I don't feel like doing it. Maybe it's because it is a brand new knife. 

So I was wondering if anyone else felt the need to thin these new shape gyutos. 

Cheers,
António


----------



## Cliff

Mine isn't one of the new ones, but it's a relatively recent KnS, which has needed a fair amount of thinning. I'm still not quite all the way there, but it has helped substantially.


----------



## aseo45

Hi All, I recently picked up one of the newest batches of blue 2 gyutos from KNS, and am just getting around to unboxing. The knife is stunning and I’m actually a big fan of the newest profile.

One question I have is about the cladding.There is a tiny divot where part of the cladding meets the main steel, and was hoping to get some opinions (see photo). I’ve not had any experience with cladding irregularities, is this something to be concerned about? It is very small, but you can feel the unevenness when running your finger over the spot.


----------



## Corradobrit1

aseo45 said:


> Hi All, I recently picked up one of the newest batches of blue 2 gyutos from KNS, and am just getting around to unboxing. The knife is stunning and I’m actually a big fan of the newest profile.
> 
> One question I have is about the cladding.There is a tiny divot where part of the cladding meets the main steel, and was hoping to get some opinions (see photo). I’ve not had any experience with cladding irregularities, is this something to be concerned about? It is very small, but you can feel the unevenness when running your finger over the spot.


Wabi sabi must be infectious


----------



## TSF415

I have a delamn on my blue2 mazaki. He for sure has some ma-sabi going on.


----------



## Jville

Corradobrit1 said:


> Wabi sabi must be infectious


MF MF MF MF MF


----------



## TSF415

DavidPF said:


> 真錆
> 
> ? Not yet...



Huh?


----------



## DavidPF

TSF415 said:


> Huh?


"Ma" and "Sabi" can perhaps be stupidly misinterpreted to mean "real rust".


----------



## TSF415

DavidPF said:


> "Ma" and "Sabi" can perhaps be stupidly misinterpreted to mean "real rust".



That’s perfect


----------



## aseo45

Thanks all for the feedback 

Is it too difficult to say from it’s current state/from the one blurry photo whether or not people feel like this defect is at risk of spreading or de-lamination? Have a feeling that’s the case and I may just start using it and hope for the best...


----------



## big_adventure

aseo45 said:


> Hi All, I recently picked up one of the newest batches of blue 2 gyutos from KNS, and am just getting around to unboxing. The knife is stunning and I’m actually a big fan of the newest profile.
> 
> One question I have is about the cladding.There is a tiny divot where part of the cladding meets the main steel, and was hoping to get some opinions (see photo). I’ve not had any experience with cladding irregularities, is this something to be concerned about? It is very small, but you can feel the unevenness when running your finger over the spot.



From the photo, you can probably just thin over the area a tiny bit to take care of the problem. It looks like the thin edge of the cladding maybe caught on something during grind or sharpening - maybe there was a flaw or some contamination in the wheel/stone whatever. If it scares you, you could probably return it, I would imagine that the vendor will respect you - if not, you could try contacting the maker.


----------



## Vdark

big_adventure said:


> From the photo, you can probably just thin over the area a tiny bit to take care of the problem. It looks like the thin edge of the cladding maybe caught on something during grind or sharpening - maybe there was a flaw or some contamination in the wheel/stone whatever. If it scares you, you could probably return it, I would imagine that the vendor will respect you - if not, you could try contacting the maker.


How does one reach mazaki?


----------



## daveb

Vdark said:


> How does one reach mazaki?



Practice son, practice....


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Hold any knife, close your eyes, and chant “ph’nglui mglw’nafh Mazaki Sanjo wgah’nagl fhtagn! HasturzakI, Mazhastur, Mahasturki! Arise, chicken!” And he appears

edit: for those not in on or not interested in the joke/meme, perhaps he could be reached through one of the vendors that carry his work? I haven’t tried this with Mazaki specifically but I’ve passed inquiries to makers through stores and gotten responses.


----------



## aseo45

Thanks for the input, I’ve decided to hold on to the knife. I may try thinning over the area as you suggest, @big_adventure.

Just as an FYI, this is what Aron from KNS had to say (I did not ask if I could return the knife, just asked for his opinion):
_“Small divot can often be seen on Mazaki Hon sanmai knives. In fact, that is a feature of hon sanmai blades! I randomly picked two hon sanmai from Mazaki and divot can been seen on both of them. Please see attached.

Nowadays many blacksmiths are using pre-cladded billet to save time and reduce failure rate. During the pre-cladding process, core metal and cladding are treated in very temperature to insure tight bonding. However, high temperature may cause carbon loss and hardness reduced as a result.

In contrary, the cladding process of hon sanmai knives was done by Mazaki himself under well-controlled temperature. Therefore, the hardness can be guaranteed. However, due to the fact that the process was done in a relatively lower temperature, the bonding between core and cladding was not as tight as that of pre-cladded blade and sometimes small divot can be seen.

That said, as long as the blade is well maintained and cleaned (please make sure you wash it right after cutting citrus), there shouldn’t be any problem with such a small divot.”_

I’ve also included some additional photos of the knife itself, as the fit and finish everywhere else is pretty stellar and I find it pretty attractive to look at. The edge was very nice out of the box, but I went ahead and took a couple passes on a 5000 grit then leather strop, and it got crazy sharp very quick.


----------



## Pertti

Anyone with experience with these Mazaki k-tip gyutos? Is it a true wide bevel?











Been looking to add a heavy knife, but also a wide bevel knife and looks like this could be the ticket for both. While I have 8 gyutos now, maybe its time to addsome excitement with the ktip xxD.

275x56 290g sounds about exactly what I'd like to buy and the looks are there too, though not all that refined, but the style is correct. 






Mazaki Kiritsuke Wa Gyuto 270mm White II Steel blade [out of stock]







www.aframestokyo.com


----------



## Sigmonster

panda said:


> i just got one today a 240 gyuto. though this one is listed at 250mm which was a big part of the reason i chose to pick one up.
> didnt want to post in the JNS thread for this because i got it from cleancut. they also offer a KU version.
> 
> i am blown away by it. mind you this is just initial impressions.
> 
> profile is not nearly as good as it looks in photo but it's fine and can also be adjusted. but good news it does run long and tall. each flat section is about an inch which is fine because the curve is gradual and not belly. stock starts off fat at the handle but tapers aggressively at the start then gradual taper and then aggressive again at the tip. spine to edge tapering is there as well, quite thin behind the edge as in a lot of meat taken off as you get closer to the edge. because of that it's not hefty feeling yet it kinda does, hard to explain. i would say it's in between a mid and workhorse. from initial cutting (30 seconds) i'd say the grind is fully convex right face, with a very tall wide bevel left face but the shoulder smoothed out, it's pretty good. not watanabe good but it cuts nice. spine and choil are eased quite well, but not rounded. the handle, oh man it's #$%#$%#$^**#& sweet! it looks to me like some kind of cherry wood, D shape and already oil treated, perfectly flush/shaped buffalo horn. this is an extremely good knife, i can't believe it only cost $260 us and arrived in 3 days. i will go on and say this is the best buy out there by far.
> too early to really say but this might be replacing my watanabe even. i will comment about the steel once ive used it more and put on stones.


I have the exact same knife for more than a year now. It truly is magnificent. I don’t have anything else comparable to give a qualified opinion, but I love it. I just bought a Konosuke HD2 to try out a laser, but I still prefer the Mazaki due to everything you just said. I would like to try a Watanabe, and Takada is also on my wishlist. But since I already have this one, my money has been mostly prioritized outside of the knife world recently


----------



## Ceriano

ragz said:


> The KU. They're really special right now. Pictures for consideration.
> View attachment 115151
> View attachment 115152
> 
> View attachment 115153


Is this from knives and stone?


----------



## Chicagohawkie

If I could find a stainless ginsan Mazaki 240 with the profile of my old carbon example, I’d buy 3 and would forever be done with buying knives ever again.......


----------



## Ceriano

NO ChoP! said:


> I jumped on the bandwagon. Got a petty coming too.View attachment 83063


Where did you get those handles?


----------



## ragz

Ceriano said:


> Is this from knives and stone?



yep


----------



## daveb

Ceriano said:


> Where did you get those handles?



Likely from the handle (and saya) guy.


----------



## JoBone

Here’s a look at a couple 180s in Aogami 2


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Holy bleep I want the bleep out of that bleeping gyuto


----------



## Gregmega

JoBone said:


> Here’s a look at a couple 180s in Aogami 2
> 
> View attachment 120881
> View attachment 120882
> View attachment 120883


Boy that 180 petty would really round out my set.


----------



## McMan

Alright… or, sorry… Can we map out the Maz progression?
How many generations are there (~what’s the timeline)? Characteristics? What are differences between vendors?

Is this a rough sketch? Or am I way off?
1.0, JNS bullnose, charcoal quench, (few reports of bizarre HT)
2.0, Pointy version, no more charcoal quench, more vendors
3.0, Maz at multiple vendors, distal taper differs (inconsistent?), HT consistent
4.0, Knives and Stones new profile

Am I wrong w/ characteristics/timeline? I feel like I missed a multiple iterations…

I’ve got one Maz (initial version from JNS, bullnose, bought on sale since it was rusted). Other than that, I’ve stayed off the train. That’s my only experience with Maz. I’ve been holding off this whole time because profile/etc. seemed to constantly be changing. Maybe still is. Now that Maz seem to be regulars on BST, I need to finally figure out what the differences are…


----------



## tcmx3

even the most recent KNS version looks slightly different than the one I got late last year @McMan they seem to get flatter each time.

I decided not to get one out of the latest batch even though I would like a new Ku with a black horn instead of the blond one I have and tbh I kind of regret that.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

I think bullnose was the first batch and charcoal quench with a pointier profile was the second or third. The stainless, which afaik was the only stainless batch, had a bullnose profile and came out in the middle of the first few batches at JNS. I also think there were some kurouchi and migaki batches at Cleancut and KnS and maybe Carbon with a more typical Sanjo gyuto profile before the pointier, tall KS looking ones.

Then there was the Henckels profile batch at JNS before the pointy one and the less said about that the better.

Maybe @preizzo or someone could write a history like @Omega did with Fujiyama? I'm about half joking here


----------



## preizzo

GorillaGrunt said:


> I think bullnose was the first batch and charcoal quench with a pointier profile was the second or third. The stainless, which afaik was the only stainless batch, had a bullnose profile and came out in the middle of the first few batches at JNS. I also think there were some kurouchi and migaki batches at Cleancut and KnS and maybe Carbon with a more typical Sanjo gyuto profile before the pointier, tall KS looking ones.
> 
> Then there was the Henckels profile batch at JNS before the pointy one and the less said about that the better.
> 
> Maybe @preizzo or someone could write a history like @Omega did with Fujiyama? I'm about half joking here


 
1 
Jns first mazaki ever was bullnose with wide bevel , almost like a heiji
2 
Jns second generation had the same profile but different grind and a bit more of distal taper 
3 
Ginsanko line from jns , clean cut bullnose ,razor sharp kurouchi line ,cktg kurouchi and migaki line 
4 
Generation 3 from jns ,more pointy and thinner at the spine (almost like KS )
5 
New line from cleancut and also k&s start to sell them (same knives for both vendor )
6 
New kurouchi line from yoshihiro , clean cut ,k&s,HK 
7 
Jns BBQ blade with higher tip 
8 
Craig migaki and kurouchi same as clean cut (thick spine out the handle and not so dramatic taper )
9 
Damascus,him Sanmai etc...
10 
10 more different vendor are carrying mazaki 
11
New year and new profile


----------



## preizzo

preizzo said:


> 1
> Jns first mazaki ever was bullnose with wide bevel , almost like a heiji
> 2
> Jns second generation had the same profile but different grind and a bit more of distal taper
> 3
> Ginsanko line from jns , clean cut bullnose ,razor sharp kurouchi line ,cktg kurouchi and migaki line
> 4
> Generation 3 from jns ,more pointy and thinner at the spine (almost like KS )
> 5
> New line from cleancut and also k&s start to sell them (same knives for both vendor )
> 6
> New kurouchi line from yoshihiro , clean cut ,k&s,HK
> 7
> Jns BBQ blade with higher tip
> 8
> Craig migaki and kurouchi same as clean cut (thick spine out the handle and not so dramatic taper )
> 9
> Damascus,him Sanmai etc...
> 10
> 10 more different vendor are carrying mazaki
> 11
> New year and new profile


There may be some more variation to mention like the single bevel stainlessl and carbon ,the special petty with high tip ,the big nakiri and santoku etc....


----------



## preizzo

preizzo said:


> There may be some more variation to mention like the single bevel stainlessl and carbon ,the special petty with high tip ,the big nakiri and santoku etc....


Over 3 years and I had the chance to try all of the different shapes and grind and finishes except for the ****ing ginsanko gyuto that i am still looking to buy since two years ago 
I roughly went through 80/90 mazakis over this time


----------



## GorillaGrunt

How many ginsan knives are out there? Does anyone else have a 270 stainless suji or was it only one or two examples of each knife?


----------



## preizzo

GorillaGrunt said:


> How many ginsan knives are out there? Does anyone else have a 270 stainless suji or was it only one or two examples of each knife?


 
Sure was not only few ,but who knows
Definitely it s not me having one


----------



## Luuuukeeeeeeee

preizzo said:


> Over 3 years and I had the chance to try all of the different shapes and grind and finishes except for the ****ing ginsanko gyuto that i am still looking to buy since two years ago
> I roughly went through 80/90 mazakis over this time



Sooo. Which 'version' is your favourite?


----------



## Bcos17

Don't forget the stainless clad Mazaki's that were available at Razor-sharp in Singapore.


----------



## preizzo

Bcos17 said:


> Don't forget the stainless clad Mazaki's that were available at Razor-sharp in Singapore.


----------



## preizzo

Luuuukeeeeeeee said:


> Sooo. Which 'version' is your favourite?


The second generation from cleancut.
That was in my opinion the best line of mazaki


----------



## Luuuukeeeeeeee

preizzo said:


> The second generation from cleancut.
> That was in my opinion the best line of mazaki



jay, that might be the one i have


----------



## preizzo

Luuuukeeeeeeee said:


> jay, that might be the one i have


Nice ,please share here some photos 
Mazaki would be honoured


----------



## Lpn562




----------



## Vancouversam

Do you guys prefer new or old generation profile ?


----------



## BillHanna

Left.


----------



## TSF415

I was a big fan of the new profile when I saw it but seeing them next to each other I’d take the old profile every time.


----------



## Duukt

Mine seems to be in between those two. Not as pointy as the Dec 2020 profile but steeper edge line compared to the older model there.


----------



## Bigbbaillie

Haven't tried the new profile but off looks alone it seems too triangular.


----------



## dafox

Left, mine is somewhere in the middle.


----------



## tcmx3

personally I prefer the flatter, pointier current style. 

the knives in my house as a child were sabs tho.


----------



## RevJoe

which generation is this: Mazaki w2 Nashiji petty 90mm
I love it but need another longer one.


----------



## RevJoe

ragz said:


> The KU. They're really special right now. Pictures for consideration.
> View attachment 115151
> View attachment 115152
> 
> View attachment 115153


I like that. In the market for a 210mm gyuto and a 130-150mm petty


----------



## IsoJ

Left


----------



## matchplay18

These knifes are workhorses


----------



## madmotts

Can someone explain the general differences from the migaki to kurouchi? I've lost track.


----------



## Jason183

madmotts said:


> Can someone explain the general differences from the migaki to kurouchi? I've lost track.



Migaki basically shinny finish, you able to get mirror polish on it. There’s Iron clad KU and Stainless clad KU, Stainless Clad KU( or Fake KU) doesn’t wear out easily.


----------



## madmotts

Jason183 said:


> Migaki basically shinny finish, you able to get mirror polish on it. There’s Iron clad KU and Stainless clad KU, Stainless Clad KU( or Fake KU) doesn’t wear out easily.



I thought one Mazaki was thinner than the other, if we talk apples to apples (same generation)?


----------



## Bigbbaillie

In my experience, the ku version has a thicker spine at the base that almost curves into the regular thickness of the blade, it is very minor and hardly noticeable. The migaki is just flat there instead.
Kind of hard to explain but besides that I would say they are generally a similar thickness.


----------



## Jason183

madmotts said:


> I thought one Mazaki was thinner than the other, if we talk apples to apples (same generation)?


Yes usually KU version is thicker than Migaki


----------



## Pie

Mazaki Migaki Gyuto 240 mm


Blade Length 240 mm Total Length 397 mm Steel Shirogami (White) #2 Handle Magnolia Ferrule Walnut Rockwell 64-65 Height Spine to heel 53 mm Width at Spine 4.9 mm Weight 212 grams Mazaki-san is a young and very talented Blacksmith working out of the Sanjo region of Japan. He forges and...



sharpknifeshop.com





Does anyone know if this is the new pointy triangle profile? I feel like I’m looking at those old newspaper 3D image things.


----------



## Corradobrit1

$1500 WOWZERS








Mazaki Damascus Gyuto 240mm


Naoki Mazaki is a blacksmith located in Sanjo, Niigata. He works alone in his small workshop and handles all aspects of his knife making. This blade is forged with a core steel of Aogami #2 steel and cladded in a handmade suminagashi iron damascus.The bevels are finished by hand on japanese...




carbonknifeco.com


----------



## sidey

Corradobrit1 said:


> $1500 WOWZERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mazaki Damascus Gyuto 240mm
> 
> 
> Naoki Mazaki is a blacksmith located in Sanjo, Niigata. He works alone in his small workshop and handles all aspects of his knife making. This blade is forged with a core steel of Aogami #2 steel and cladded in a handmade suminagashi iron damascus.The bevels are finished by hand on japanese...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> carbonknifeco.com



that’s nothing...

Gyuto knife, Aogami 1, forge welded damascus series - Naoki Mazaki

same knife is somehow $2500 in the UK


----------



## Corradobrit1

sidey said:


> that’s nothing...
> 
> Gyuto knife, Aogami 1, forge welded damascus series - Naoki Mazaki
> 
> same knife is somehow $2500 in the UK


They're having a laugh even factoring in the 20% VAT. The $500 difference between B#1 and B#2 is hard to justify.


----------



## IsoJ

sidey said:


> that’s nothing...
> 
> Gyuto knife, Aogami 1, forge welded damascus series - Naoki Mazaki
> 
> same knife is somehow $2500 in the UK


Looks to be different steel but still quite a gap in price. And the handle on both knives, not sure if it is a right choice...


----------



## ModRQC

Pie said:


> Mazaki Migaki Gyuto 240 mm
> 
> 
> Blade Length 240 mm Total Length 397 mm Steel Shirogami (White) #2 Handle Magnolia Ferrule Walnut Rockwell 64-65 Height Spine to heel 53 mm Width at Spine 4.9 mm Weight 212 grams Mazaki-san is a young and very talented Blacksmith working out of the Sanjo region of Japan. He forges and...
> 
> 
> 
> sharpknifeshop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this is the new pointy triangle profile? I feel like I’m looking at those old newspaper 3D image things.



It is and the thinner one too. His 210mm batch weighs about 155-160g average. I asked when he had just received them.


----------



## Pie

ModRQC said:


> It is and the thinner one too. His 210mm batch weighs about 155-160g average. I asked when he had just received them.


Thanks! Time to see what these are all about


----------



## ampersandcetera

Pie said:


> Mazaki Migaki Gyuto 240 mm
> 
> 
> Blade Length 240 mm Total Length 397 mm Steel Shirogami (White) #2 Handle Magnolia Ferrule Walnut Rockwell 64-65 Height Spine to heel 53 mm Width at Spine 4.9 mm Weight 212 grams Mazaki-san is a young and very talented Blacksmith working out of the Sanjo region of Japan. He forges and...
> 
> 
> 
> sharpknifeshop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this is the new pointy triangle profile? I feel like I’m looking at those old newspaper 3D image things.


It is. I got the chance to check one out at the local shop and it's nice a nice enough knife on its own merits but the older format seems so much more... useful.


----------



## RockyBasel

The CKC one is a Damascus and I would have paid a hefty price, but it came in at 200 gm 

What happened? Why so much change, in batch after batch? Mazaki is a Sanjo knife maker, and this weight is like a Y Tanaka weight knife. Normally Mazaki’s I own are 230-250 gm minimum - heft was their distinguishing feature. Now that is gone. Bye-bye

don’t get it - how can he build a brand with such vacillation- wabi-sabi aside


----------



## Pie

ampersandcetera said:


> It is. I got the chance to check one out at the local shop and it's nice a nice enough knife on its own merits but the older format seems so much more... useful.



I agree traditional gyuto profile is more versatile. I *think* I see a huge flat spot starting from the heel in the new version, which really is what I’m chasing. TBH I don’t see a lot of 240 gyutos in this price range and if it’s anything like his old super beefy nakiris I’ll be happy.


----------



## ampersandcetera

RockyBasel said:


> The CKC one is a Damascus and I would have paid a hefty price, but it came in at 200 gm
> 
> What happened? Why so much change, in batch after batch? Mazaki is a Sanjo knife maker, and this weight is like a Y Tanaka weight knife. Normally Mazaki’s I own are 230-250 gm minimum - heft was their distinguishing feature. Now that is gone. Bye-bye
> 
> don’t get it - how can he build a brand with such vacillation- wabi-sabi aside


I guess this might be in some part due to him being relatively young among Sanjo makers, still working with different profiles before he settles on something and really refines it for years and years? My Mazaki bunka is a joy to use, and I'm sure I'll pick up something new from him down the line. This particular profile probably won't be it, though.


----------



## preizzo

The 3 in the middle are 

Mazaki kurouchi Damascus shirogami 2 240 gyuto 
Mazaki Damascus aogami 2 240 gyuto 
Mazaki Damascus aogami 1 240 gyuto


----------



## RockyBasel

preizzo said:


> The 3 in the middle are
> 
> Mazaki kurouchi Damascus shirogami 2 240 gyuto
> Mazaki Damascus aogami 2 240 gyuto
> Mazaki Damascus aogami 1 240 gyuto


How much does the aogami mazascus weigh?


----------



## preizzo

RockyBasel said:


> How much does the aogami mazascus weigh?


Aogami 2 has a custom handle and it weights at 268 gr
Aogami 1 it's 248 gr
White 2 it's 217 gr


----------



## Jville

preizzo said:


> The 3 in the middle are
> 
> Mazaki kurouchi Damascus shirogami 2 240 gyuto
> Mazaki Damascus aogami 2 240 gyuto
> Mazaki Damascus aogami 1 240 gyuto


Wow, I didn’t even realize he did a Kurochi Damascus.


----------



## RockyBasel

preizzo said:


> Aogami 2 has a custom handle and it weights at 268 gr
> Aogami 1 it's 248 gr
> White 2 it's 217 gr



These are where I would expect them to come in weight-wise. Although, my White 2 KU 240 gyuto is 235 gm, a little heavier.

I find it hard to imagine a 178 gm mazaki or a 200 gm 240 mm Damascus. That does not sound like a Sanjo knife at all. Closer to laser - which is the furthest from what Mazaki has been till now.


----------



## WiriWiri

sidey said:


> that’s nothing...
> 
> Gyuto knife, Aogami 1, forge welded damascus series - Naoki Mazaki
> 
> same knife is somehow $2500 in the UK



Haha I mentioned that joyful pricing earlier. Nice that they upgraded to that lovely handle too

The sunny uplands of Brexit can kiss my arse.


----------



## sidey

did you not get your unicorn yet either? 

I thought the pricing of the “regular” shirogami Mazaki from Kitchen Provisons not too steep. Good job I’m not in the market for the premium ones!!
The new handle is questionable, shame as the previous keyaki ones are great.


----------



## Corradobrit1

The CKC one is still there. Guess the market has spoken and we have hit the Mazzer Dammy price ceiling and then some (assuming its the only one in stock).


----------



## Mikeadunne

man, I hate those handles


----------



## superworrier

Feels like I'm the only who likes these handles. They're unique and a bit less yellow in person, but definitely need some oil.


----------



## tostadas

Mikeadunne said:


> man, I hate those handles


It's the light wood ferrule that makes it look cheap to me. Even if they did a darker wood like some of the kono I'd be so much more excited


----------



## Jville

tostadas said:


> It's the light wood ferrule that makes it look cheap to me. Even if they did a darker wood like some of the kono I'd be so much more excited


Totally agree.


----------



## Pie

240 Migaki arrived yesterday! Didn’t have a chance to use it yet but upon visual inspection:

1.Wow that tip is thin
2. Huge long flat spot 
3. Not nearly the WH I set out to buy. Thin AF behind the edge, not much convex on the primary
4. F&F quite nice, very smooth domed spine, stands out from the others. Love the migaki finish (won’t last long in my grubby clumsy hands)
5. Cool grind with the upswept shinogi towards the tip
6. Handle is a 2/10 - long and fat, very, very unattractive - won’t be sad if it gets grit stains or chewed up by stones. 




Full write up after I spend some time with it


----------



## WPerry

I, uhm... Yeah, not digging this.


----------



## Jovidah

It it just me or does the profile look a bit... KS-ish?


----------



## M1k3

A lot KS-ish


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Shh you’ll double the price if you say that three times


----------



## madmotts

WPerry said:


> I, uhm... Yeah, not digging this.
> 
> View attachment 130446




Not even with a dark ferrule?


----------



## M1k3

GorillaGrunt said:


> Shh you’ll double the price if you say that three times


Mazascus!


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Hastur!


----------



## Pie

No lie that flat spot is godly (for those who like flat spots)


----------



## McMan




----------



## Jason183

That extra heel height making it seems to have a lot more flat spots than KS.


----------



## Jovidah

Just out of genuine curiosity (I don't have strong opinions about it, although I do like the aesthethics)... why do people think that's a bad thing? Apart from the risk of it getting embraced by a certain mediocre youtuber...


----------



## M1k3

Jovidah said:


> Just out of genuine curiosity (I don't have strong opinions about it, although I do like the aesthethics)... why do people think that's a bad thing? Apart from the risk of it getting embraced by a certain mediocre youtuber...


To me, it looks like he's trying to mashup a KS with Don Nguyen's style, sort of.


----------



## tcmx3

I like it and Im in for another Ku when they come around.


----------



## McMan

Jovidah said:


> Just out of genuine curiosity (I don't have strong opinions about it, although I do like the aesthethics)... why do people think that's a bad thing? Apart from the risk of it getting embraced by a certain mediocre youtuber...


The angles and proportions seem off to me. The edge profile looks nice (and with a lot of flat spot like that, a little reminiscent of a Yoshi) and has a low tip relative to the edge (which I like). But the tip relative to the tang is quite high. So, when the flat spot makes contact with the board, it's banana-handle time. With that, it's going to be awkward to do tip work.

Caveat--all this from seeing one pic is speculation...

Or maybe I'm wrong... Here's that Maz at top with a Yoshi Amerikiri below.
The Maz tip looks only a few mm higher...

I dunno.  That new Maz still looks like a weird triangle to me...


----------



## GorillaGrunt

I am intrigued by the shinogi that rises tipwards, reminds me of the Togashi KU on which I really liked that feature but this is much pointier to begin with and presumably more severely tapered.


----------



## Jville

Jovidah said:


> Just out of genuine curiosity (I don't have strong opinions about it, although I do like the aesthethics)... why do people think that's a bad thing? Apart from the risk of it getting embraced by a certain mediocre youtuber...


Ricky better leave Mazaki alone.


----------



## RockyBasel

WPerry said:


> I, uhm... Yeah, not digging this.
> 
> View attachment 130446




The fact that they are still available says something - don’t like the shape or handle too much. Decent price though. Weight is a bit better for the 240, but I don’t know. I am more thankful now for the old profile KU I got from CKC a year ago


----------



## RevJoe

I am intrigued but I like the ku Nashiji finishes.


----------



## WifeNotUnderstand




----------



## tcmx3

WifeNotUnderstand said:


>




I can confidently say that is both awesome and also THE ugliest honyaki I think Ive ever seen.

after some finishing work I bet that is gonna be beyond killer though.


----------



## zizirex

if only it doesn't cost 2K. Since the finish is not the best. Still a better deal than his Blue damascus


----------



## Jovidah

Yeah as the saying goes... therés no bad products, only bad prices. Crappier finish can be acceptable if the price is low enough (and everything else is good). In the end blade finish is probably one of the last things I care about in a knife, since it's one of the first things I muck up.


----------



## M1k3

Mazyaki


----------



## Jville

WifeNotUnderstand said:


>



How much did they cost?


----------



## GorillaGrunt

You gotta be friggin pooping me, who‘s selling them? Maz blue 1 honyaki makes me glad I didn’t buy the others I was looking at


----------



## Vdark

Don't know if this is it but









Mazaki Migaki Honyaki Gyuto 240mm


Gyuto: A general-purpose knife that most chefs would say they could not do without. This knife is the Japanese knife makers answer to the western “chef knife”. Gyuto translates to “cow blade”. They are generally tall at the heel, flat throughout, and rounded toward the tip of the knife for rock...




thecooksedge.com


----------



## juice

"Behold" indeed. Final finishing step was a brick, I guess.


----------



## Dendrobatez

juice said:


> "Behold" indeed. Final finishing step was a brick, I guess.



Learned from pass around threads


----------



## Jovidah

That's... not the price I expected when seeing that finish.
A proverb that comes to mind is 'much good work was lost for the lack of a little more'.


----------



## wombat

Looks like the finish on my practice yanagiba, just needs some sharpie marks ground into the metal.


----------



## Eloh

For €500 I would be all over it


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

$2600 is crazy. Not saying the dammy price is not crazy but this honyaki looks terrible with its finish and hamon which makes $2600 even crazier than the dammy. Y. Ikeda blue 1 honyaki would cost less. Those beautiful Y. ikeda white 1 Mt Fuji double hamon honyakis also cost less.


----------



## Corradobrit1

I think Ashi Honyaki prices just increased 20%


----------



## Jville

Vdark said:


> Don't know if this is it but
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mazaki Migaki Honyaki Gyuto 240mm
> 
> 
> Gyuto: A general-purpose knife that most chefs would say they could not do without. This knife is the Japanese knife makers answer to the western “chef knife”. Gyuto translates to “cow blade”. They are generally tall at the heel, flat throughout, and rounded toward the tip of the knife for rock...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thecooksedge.com


I’m a big Mazaki fan, but that is a hard hell NO for me. Somebody stop the Mazadness!


----------



## tcmx3

I think Mazaki is telling us he doesnt want to make very many of these lol. it's almost a "**** you" price, like you would charge someone you dont want to work with but if they want to finance your new boat then ok fine.

the issue is there always seems to be buyers for this stuff.

the _it's meant to be used_ argument makes a ton of sense for his white 2 stuff where it genuinely is less expensive than most of the stuff it's otherwise equivalent to minus the price. but when we start talking about the Damascus stuff, or this Honyaki, these things go for huge money but are still finished like his 250 dollar white 2 knife.


----------



## Corradobrit1

tcmx3 said:


> I think Mazaki is telling us he doesnt want to make very many of these lol. it's almost a "**** you" price, like you would charge someone you dont want to work with but if they want to finance your new boat then ok fine.
> 
> the issue is there always seems to be buyers for this stuff.
> 
> the _it's meant to be used_ argument makes a ton of sense for his white 2 stuff where it genuinely is less expensive than most of the stuff it's otherwise equivalent to minus the price. but when we start talking about the Damascus stuff, or this Honyaki, these things go for huge money but are still finished like his 250 dollar white 2 knife.


Well at least its got a horn ferrule.


----------



## mk4pi

Why do you guy thing the finish is so bad? I mean it would take a lot of time to make the honyaki or the damy (if he doesn't buy the premade one), for sure you can spend a day or 2 to give these knife a better finish, you already spend all that effort.


----------



## tcmx3

mk4pi said:


> Why do you guy thing the finish is so bad? I mean it would take a lot of time to make the honyaki or the damy (if he doesn't buy the premade one), for sure you can spend a day or 2 to give these knife a better finish, you already spend all that effort.



usually when you buy a honyaki gyuto with a lower level of f&f it costs less than the mirror finished ones where a craftsman has invested significant effort in bringing out the hamon

finishing a honyaki in this state sounds like my literal personal hell.


----------



## Eloh

Most work and therefore most of the price on a Japanese honyaki usually is the finish/polish of the knife.

So in terms of how much work is put in this knife the price is way too high.... 
Of course on the other hand you have the supply/demand argument. 



mk4pi said:


> Why do you guy thing the finish is so bad? I mean it would take a lot of time to make the honyaki or the damy (if he doesn't buy the premade one), for sure you can spend a day or 2 to give these knife a better finish, you already spend all that effort.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

mk4pi said:


> Why do you guy thing the finish is so bad? I mean it would take a lot of time to make the honyaki or the damy (if he doesn't buy the premade one), for sure you can spend a day or 2 to give these knife a better finish, you already spend all that effort.


The finish is bad for that price. Kaeru and Munetoshi honyakis have similar level of finish and are way way cheaper. And You can barely see the hamon and the hamon pattern is nothing special either.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> The finish is bad for that price. Kaeru and Munetoshi honyakis have similar level of finish and are way way cheaper. And You can barely see the hamon and the hamon pattern is nothing special either.


I disagree, I think it's the best finished Mazaki honyaki I've ever seen. You're assuming the customer values those other makers similarly to Mazaki. I think it's a great price because it sold.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Yea…too many rich buyers in the world. Maybe a mirror polished Mazaki honyaki with a decent hamon will cost $4000.


----------



## esoo

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Yea…too many rich buyers in the world. Maybe a mirror polished Mazaki honyaki with a decent hamon will cost $4000.



Don't say that too loud, Ashi may get ideas....


----------



## Barmoley

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Yea…too many rich buyers in the world. Maybe a mirror polished Mazaki honyaki with a decent hamon will cost $4000.


At least that much. Most of the work that makes Japanese honyaki what it is and commends the higher price hasn't been put into this knife, so if you add the additional effort the price needs to be at least double if not triple of what it sold for.


----------



## ModRQC

I just fired on one of his kasumi W#2 with the new profile most seem to hate. Supposed to come in today. I actually like the new profile, but like the price even better. It's real cheap money nonetheless for what it is, and no mild HT, and hand finished. 

I would like him to offer such cheap expertise in Blue also instead of going straight to the high-end bait with these. Just a surprising way to look at a business model, but hey if they sell, all the better for him.


----------



## Jville

Barmoley said:


> At least that much. Most of the work that makes Japanese honyaki what it is and commends the higher price hasn't been put into this knife, so if you add the additional effort the price needs to be at least double if not triple of what it sold for.


If they do, suckers. Idk, maybe the market will catch up to Mazaki on these later. That Maz Damascus is still sitting last I checked on Carbon Co with that ugly handle. I think people just kind of jumped on them because it was a  sighting. Well, at least they learned to put a nice handle on these honyakis, which kind of highlights the poor finish. My blues look better than this imho.


----------



## Barmoley

Jville said:


> If they do, suckers. Idk, maybe the market will catch up to Mazaki on these later. That Maz Damascus is still sitting last I checked on Carbon Co with that ugly handle. I think people just kind of jumped on them because it was a  sighting. Well, at least they learned to put a nice handle on these honyakis, which kind of highlights the poor finish. My blues look better than this imho.


I don't understand the whole Mazaki phenomena, I tried 3 different generations plus his ginsanko versions. All were OK knives and good for the price they went for. All were so different from one another that if I didn't know I would think they were made by different smiths. His damascus and blue prices seem crazy to me, but I haven't tried them so my opinion is worthless. This honyaki seems like a joke for that price. Honyaki have higher rate of failure and are more difficult to make, but if the maker won't take the time to put more effort into finishing them then what is the point and why such a drastic price increase? I guess for mazaki collectors it makes sense. He is the perfect maker to collect, each generation and steel version is drastically different from the rest. When talking about Mazaki, unless one knows the generation and steel one really doesn't know what knife is being discussed.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Jville said:


> If they do, suckers. Idk, maybe the market will catch up to Mazaki on these later. That Maz Damascus is still sitting last I checked on Carbon Co with that ugly handle. I think people just kind of jumped on them because it was a  sighting. Well, at least they learned to put a nice handle on these honyakis, which kind of highlights the poor finish. My blues look better than this imho.


I think Maz might have used similar finishing process on honyaki and kasumi but honyaki steel is too hard compared to the kasumi’s soft cladding so the result is bad.


----------



## Jville

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think Maz might have used similar finishing process on honyaki and kasumi but honyaki steel is too hard compared to the kasumi’s soft cladding so the result is bad.


Perhaps, but you have to look at the knife and say this is not finished, especially fir a knife you are charging $2600. Again, I really like Mazaki’s knife, but this is Maz hype at its worse.


----------



## Jville

Barmoley said:


> I don't understand the whole Mazaki phenomena, I tried 3 different generations plus his ginsanko versions. All were OK knives and good for the price they went for. All were so different from one another that if I didn't know I would think they were made by different smiths. His damascus and blue prices seem crazy to me, but I haven't tried them so my opinion is worthless. This honyaki seems like a joke for that price. Honyaki have higher rate of failure and are more difficult to make, but if the maker won't take the time to put more effort into finishing them then what is the point and why such a drastic price increase? I guess for mazaki collectors it makes sense. He is the perfect maker to collect, each generation and steel version is drastically different from the rest. When talking about Mazaki, unless one knows the generation and steel one really doesn't know what knife is being discussed.


Of course, it’s only my opinion, but I didn’t feel the blues 240 gyutos were outrageously priced that I got. I bought the blue 2 for 485 with a nice ebony handle, which includes a small shipping protection fee. After buying that one, and upon initial inspection I immediately bought the blue 1 for $619 without using the blue 2, same fee included, which included a really nice friction fit saya and a really nice imho ebony heart shaped handle. When you look at the blue 2 we are in the Toyama price range and they are worth every penny that a Toyama is worth- again imho. And the blue 1 came with a nice saya that you could probably say is easily worth $100, so that pretty much put it in the Toyama range also. Both with much nicer handles IMO.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Jville said:


> Of course, it’s only my opinion, but I didn’t feel the blues 240 gyutos were outrageously priced that I got. I bought the blue 2 for 485 with a nice ebony handle, which includes a small shipping protection fee. After buying that one, and upon initial inspection I immediately bought the blue 1 for $619 without using the blue 2, same fee included, which included a really nice friction fit saya and a really nice imho ebony heart shaped handle. When you look at the blue 2 we are in the Toyama price range and they are worth every penny that a Toyama is worth- again imho. And the blue 1 came with a nice saya that you could probably say is easily worth $100, so that pretty much put it in the Toyama range also. Both with much nicer handles IMO.


Yea $400-$600 is not bad especially the blue 2 option. Just curious how does his blue 1 or 2 steel feel?


----------



## mk4pi

Jville said:


> Perhaps, but you have to look at the knife and say this is not finished, especially fir a knife you are charging $2600. Again, I really like Mazaki’s knife, but this is Maz hype at its worse.



I think that plus the trader realize there are high demand for his knife. So they make the mark up to an insane level. I think the cost they buy directly from Mazaki may be only half the actual prices we pay, may be even more.


----------



## Barmoley

Jville said:


> Of course, it’s only my opinion, but I didn’t feel the blues 240 gyutos were outrageously priced that I got. I bought the blue 2 for 485 with a nice ebony handle, which includes a small shipping protection fee. After buying that one, and upon initial inspection I immediately bought the blue 1 for $619 without using the blue 2, same fee included, which included a really nice friction fit saya and a really nice imho ebony heart shaped handle. When you look at the blue 2 we are in the Toyama price range and they are worth every penny that a Toyama is worth- again imho. And the blue 1 came with a nice saya that you could probably say is easily worth $100, so that pretty much put it in the Toyama range also. Both with much nicer handles IMO.


I was more commenting on damascus blues that were expensive. Regular blues were priced comparable to toyama, but couldn't be bough by mere mortals, one had to be a previous customer of mazaki knives from K&S or some such nonsense. I lost interest after that plenty of other knives out there. Like I said I haven't tried blue mazakis, but I wouldn't pay toyama prices for white mazaki and not because of steel, just different category of knives to me. Blues might be better, I don't know.


----------



## Jville

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Yea $400-$600 is not bad especially the blue 2 option. Just curious how does his blue 1 or 2 steel feel?


I’d be curious about others opinions of his blue heat treatment. The blue 2 is a drawer queen BNIB and probably will be for awhile. I’ve used the Blue #1 and initially very impressed. The steel feels very hard and seems like it will hold an edge a long time. I got a little rough with it on the board chopping some herbs to test it some. No real damage came from it, but it definitely dulled it some, even though you can still feel the edge have quite a bit of bite. I cut other things with it before and after, but haven’t put it in the stones. But I am planning on putting it on them very soon, maybe even tonight. I’ll be curious how it sharpens. I have an inkling that his blue heat treatment is going to be very impressive, but it’s only the impression it has left on me so I can’t say fir sure. Would definitely like to hear what others think about his heat treatment. Both of them came blazing sharp OOTB as good as anything I’ve ever come across.


----------



## daniel_il

Any thoughts about mazaki 180 petty? im on the verge of ordering the kuro nashiji from CKC


----------



## spaceconvoy

_


_when you're trying to make a serious point about price discrimination (albeit couched in irony) and everyone thinks you're joking_


----------



## Jville

spaceconvoy said:


> _
> 
> 
> _when you're trying to make a serious point about price discrimination (albeit couched in irony) and everyone thinks you're joking_


Your previous comment seemed a sarcastic way to say there is a lot of hype with Mazaki knives, and it isn’t worth the price. But someone still bought it. But perhaps you can explain what you meant. I took it as sarcasm.


----------



## Jville

Barmoley said:


> I was more commenting on damascus blues that were expensive. Regular blues were priced comparable to toyama, but couldn't be bough by mere mortals, one had to be a previous customer of mazaki knives from K&S or some such nonsense. I lost interest after that plenty of other knives out there. Like I said I haven't tried blue mazakis, but I wouldn't pay toyama prices for white mazaki and not because of steel, just different category of knives to me. Blues might be better, I don't know.


Actually, I think the blue 2s ended up being available to whoever. I believe they sat there for awhile and then they made them available to whoever. That is how I got mine.


----------



## RockyBasel

I know I will be bashed for saying this, but how come it does not look like a Honyaki - in that sense it’s kind of unique, a non- ashi aspiring Honyaki- the ashi yo Honyaki makes me salivate each time I see it - should have grabbed it when I had the chance.

would love to see more of this knife after further polishing

congrats to the Mazaki pinnacle of k ice msking


----------



## Barmoley

Jville said:


> Actually, I think the blue 2s ended up being available to whoever. I believe they sat there for awhile and then they made them available to whoever. That is how I got mine.


Ah, didn’t know this. I thought the prerequisite was BS, so moved on.


----------



## superworrier

Looks like he hired me to do the polish.


----------



## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> I know I will be bashed for saying this, but how come it does not look like a Honyaki - in that sense it’s kind of unique, a non- ashi aspiring Honyaki- the ashi yo Honyaki makes me salivate each time I see it - should have grabbed it when I had the chance.
> 
> would love to see more of this knife after further polishing
> 
> congrats to the Mazaki pinnacle of k ice msking


Well we don't know the steel Mazzer used. Could be Blue so the hamon will generally be underwhelming. Not seeing any banding either. The execution reminds me more of Western maker Honyakis than Japanese or the cheaper end of the Japanese market occupied by Jikko and Munetoshi and Kaeru.


----------



## Jville

superworrier said:


> Looks like he hired me to do the polish.


He paid you too much


----------



## spaceconvoy

Jville said:


> Your previous comment seemed a sarcastic way to say there is a lot of hype with Mazaki knives, and it isn’t worth the price. But someone still bought it. But perhaps you can explain what you meant. I took it as sarcasm.


"In pure price discrimination, the seller charges each customer the maximum price they will pay."

Ok, this isn't actually price discrimination because there's only one knife in existence. I was reading something like this earlier and the phrase stuck, but I know **** all about economics. Am I just over-complicating basic supply and demand? I feel like Mazaki is doing something beyond that with respect to his resellers, but maybe not (any economists here?)

Either way, he's maximizing his value on the open market. How can anyone complain about the price when it sold quickly to a willing buyer with no surplus; isn't that a perfectly fair price?

Forging skills aside, I have more respect for Mazaki than certain western makers who use raffles and such to sell their knives. If your customers are using bots (allegedly) to purchase your knives within microseconds, isn't that a clear market sign you should raise your prices? I've always felt this behavior is a weird form of self-imposed communism (I'm not a political scientist either).

Put it this way: how many potential customers are upset about being unable to purchase certain western makers? Anecdotally, a lot. How many are upset they can't purchase a Mazaki honyaki? Seems to be none. Price controls are always self defeating, and benefit no one.


----------



## tcmx3

spaceconvoy said:


> Ok, this isn't actually price discrimination because there's only one knife in existence. I was reading something like this earlier and the phrase stuck, but I know **** all about economics. Am I just over-complicating basic supply and demand? I feel like Mazaki is doing something beyond that with respect to his resellers, but maybe not (any economists here?)



Im (formerly) one but Im not going to comment too much on the theory here.

it would take hours to explain all of the assumptions necessary for the supposedly "basic" economics that a lot of people around here love to tell me all about to work but in the end I would just shrug and say "in the end whatever works empirically is the truth" anyway. 

btw I dont understand you bringing up communism. where here did the state government of Japan step in to take over ownership of his forge, materials, etc? (something they apparently do for swords of a certain quality if that's not just internet talk). 

that said you have the right idea that if your knives are selling out in seconds you should probably raise your prices up until the point at which you have some stock or to come up with a random selection system. but that is more practical than theory, as most economists dont really care about 1 off niche products like a Mazaki honyaki, and even the term "luxury good" means something different in that cannon.


----------



## spaceconvoy

tcmx3 said:


> btw I dont understand you bringing up communism. where here did the state government of Japan step in to take over ownership of his forge, materials, etc?


I said "self-imposed communism," imagining the maker as their own micro nation-state. They own the means of production and control the market, yet they set the price based on what they feel it should be, responding neither to market signals nor production capacity. The end result is a sort of digital breadline.

[Obviously not really, but it's a fun way to think about the dynamics here. And I may be a moron, who knows]

Trying to steer this back on topic: that Mazaki honyaki was fairly priced by virtue of its sale. Like you said, "whatever works empirically is the truth," the rest is just sour grapes.


----------



## tcmx3

spaceconvoy said:


> Trying to steer this back on topic: that Mazaki honyaki was fairly priced by virtue of its sale. Like you said, "whatever works empirically is the truth," the rest is just sour grapes.



well that's true, but it's also important to note n=1 does not empiricism make.

I think it's better to look at the Mazayaki as a curio, a rare event in time and not one worth being upset you didnt get on the list for.


----------



## Pie

I swear I’ve seen some of those low spots in those exact places before 

If I had the means, sure why not as a collectors piece? Probably not the first thing I buy at that price, but interesting and sort of fun and wonky. If you like wonky.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

I dunno, I’ve liked every Mazaki I’ve ever tried and never had any real complaints about any of them; 5 or 6 total so far. The ones I’ve sold became redundant by way of displacement generally by high priced knives. So I’ve been wanting to try his blue steel especially b1 (factor 1), and I go around spending a bunch of money on knives (factor 2), and I’m pretty sure that if I bought it and didn’t like it someone here would buy it for a decent percentage of what I paid for it (factor 3) and there are probably enough people out there who think the same to create a market for something like this.

Then again I just passed on a Maz Aogami 1, because as the price of a knife increases the opportunity cost of all the other knives I could buy with that money becomes more significant. And scarcity is also a factor; after all, the chances of this being better in some measurable way than a Togashi full moon yadda yadda honyaki are slim, but if I want the other I’m pretty sure I could find one to click a button on right this minute.

I didn’t even notice - does Mazaki do the grinding, sharpening, and finishing on this one himself too Or is it done by one of the big name sharpeners?


----------



## superworrier

It might actually make sense for makers to keep prices low for a while. You need to have your name be hyped for a few years, then it will stick. If you raise prices too fast, people will lose interest. Kinda true for the Masamoto KS.


----------



## Corradobrit1

GorillaGrunt said:


> I didn’t even notice - does Mazaki do the grinding, sharpening, and finishing on this one himself too Or is it done by one of the big name sharpeners?


I sincerely hope so. No self respecting specialist sharpener/polisher would let that pass as is.


----------



## Jville

superworrier said:


> It might actually make sense for makers to keep prices low for a while. You need to have your name be hyped for a few years, then it will stick. If you raise prices too fast, people will lose interest. Kinda true for the Masamoto KS.


I don’t think the market for KS went down because they raised prices too soon. People broke up hype as the prices skyrocketed in some situations, when they came back into the market. People started to discuss they are a good knife but not the holy grail as depicted at times. The same thing happened to the HD. Also the newer KS version were a supposedly a little more laserish and not quite the same as the ones the legend was told about. Mazaki makes good knives but I believe these honyaki type may be brought down to earth some. Although if he doesn’t make many or anymore they will be some what of a mysterious unicorn in the wild. These I think were bought because they were a Maz Honyaki, but that buzz of catching a unicorn can where off if it feels like kissing a frog for $2600. I’d be curious of the resell value on these.


----------



## Corradobrit1

Jville said:


> I don’t think the market for KS went down because they raised prices too soon. People broke up hype as the prices skyrocketed in some situations, when they came back into the market. People started to discuss they are a good knife but not the holy grail as depicted at times. The same thing happened to the HD. Also the newer KS version were a supposedly a little more laserish and not quite the same as the ones the legend was told about. Mazaki makes good knives but I believe these honyaki type may be brought down to earth some. Although if he doesn’t make many or anymore they will be some what of a mysterious unicorn in the wild. These I think were bought because they were a Maz Honyaki, but that buzz of catching a unicorn can where off if it feels like kissing a frog for $2600. I’d be curious of the resell value on these.


You think he's really gonna make one. I bet he's got a few in reserve which will slowly appear for sale. No point flooding the market when you're making $2600 on a project honyaki.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Corradobrit1 said:


> I sincerely hope so. No self respecting specialist sharpener/polisher would let that pass as is.


Good point, I admittedly didn’t read or look at much past “Mazaki honyaki? Like a honyaki by Mazaki? Whoa gimme”


----------



## Jville

Corradobrit1 said:


> You think he's really gonna make one. I bet he's got a few in reserve which will slowly appear for sale. No point flooding the market when you're making $2600 on a project honyaki.


Yeah, I guess that could be true and would make sense. The original post said he put out 4 ( I believe 1 white and 3 blue).


----------



## tcmx3

Pie said:


> If I had the means, sure why not as a collectors piece?



eventually you run out of space.

although Im definitely more in the "end game" part of the collector camp rather than the "hoarder" camp and some folks just have massive collections where they are not so concerned if every piece in it is a carefully curated choice.


----------



## Pie

tcmx3 said:


> eventually you run out of space.
> 
> although Im definitely more in the "end game" part of the collector camp rather than the "hoarder" camp and some folks just have massive collections where they are not so concerned if every piece in it is a carefully curated choice.


Truth. I’m firmly in the “I’m going to buy stuff until my wife kicks me out or I run out of money” camp. That being said none of my knives qualify as intentional collectors items. I do like his stuff enough that this would be super, super cool to have - weird finish and all.


----------



## tally-ho

It's priced like he hates grinding his honyaki by hand and makes you pay for it.
2600$ probably means a lot of sweat and swearings.


----------



## Jville

If it was a badass looking honyaki and looked stunning like it had been made by someone who had done it before, $2600 would still be steep. But at least you could say whoa that is a nice looking Mazaki Honyaki. This is all about taking advantage of Maz Hype. If I was spending $2600 on a knife this one wouldn’t even make the list. And again I’m a big fan and really like Mazakis work. This one just feels insulting.


----------



## crocca86

At least are Canadian dollars...


----------



## WifeNotUnderstand

KnS has one now









Mazaki Mizu-Honyaki Blue 1 Gyuto 240mm with Heart Shaped Burl Handle


Mazaki Sanjo by Naoki Mazaki - top quality Japanese chefs knfie - Knives and Stones




www.knivesandstones.com.au


----------



## EricEricEric

These knives are really good. I have a 270mm that I mirror finished and then kasumi.

His knives are really unique, and very hard. The edge just lasts

Looks like three layers, it’s so strange because it seems like it has some honyaki characteristics 

If you’re interested msg me


----------



## Tanalasta

Will see how long it lasts. Honyaki vs hon Sanmai. Blue v white. Opinions?


----------



## tostadas

Based on the price, the honyaki is 4x better


----------



## EricEricEric

All else being equal I feel that white always gets sharper, but blue stays sharp for longer

So I think if you like to sharpen a lot and you enjoy the sharpest way possible then white which is preferable




Tanalasta said:


> Will see how long it lasts. Honyaki vs hon Sanmai. Blue v white. Opinions?


----------



## Tanalasta

The white and blue hon Sanmai went very quickly. Haven’t been following this thread and it seems Maxaki has gotten a lot more popular? How’s the consistency and grind these days.

I have one of his knives from several years ago when they were only a few hundred dollars


----------



## EricEricEric

Does it really say almost $3k? 

I have to be misreading that 

You see the finish on that knife? 



WifeNotUnderstand said:


> KnS has one now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mazaki Mizu-Honyaki Blue 1 Gyuto 240mm with Heart Shaped Burl Handle
> 
> 
> Mazaki Sanjo by Naoki Mazaki - top quality Japanese chefs knfie - Knives and Stones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.knivesandstones.com.au


----------



## spaceconvoy

EricEricEric said:


> You see the finish on that knife?


Unique! One of a kind! Each errant scratch placed exquisitely by the master himself. Not like those boring soul-less Sakai mirrored honyaki, this is a true work of art, a la Jackson Pollock


----------



## Pie

I don’t know if anyone follows knifluencer on Instagram but dude pulled out craaaazy banding from a maz honyaki and it’s looks amazing


----------



## lemeneid

Mazaki.
An even more overrated and overpriced TF


----------



## Jovidah

Apart from the fact that you can buy 3 Mazaki 240s for the price of one TF 240...


----------



## parbaked

Jovidah said:


> Apart from the fact that you can buy 3 Mazaki 240s for the price of one TF 240...



If you compare apples to apples the prices are pretty close...

240mm Pre-laminated White steel:
TF Nashiji: $350
Mazaki Nashiji: $300

240mm Blue Steel laminated in house:
TF Denka AS: $800
Mazaki Hon San Mai Blue: $750


----------



## BillHanna

But Mazaki makes ALLLLL of those, right?


----------



## tcmx3

Pie said:


> I don’t know if anyone follows knifluencer on Instagram but dude pulled out craaaazy banding from a maz honyaki and it’s looks amazing



well, the banding does

but just seeing the video where he was moving it around the knife itself is still hideous. 

if this knife was coming with a really beautiful finish I could see maybe paying the price. it aint cheap, but ok. but it's not only that it's so badly finished, actually removing Mazaki's super deep scratches takes AGES and that's on soft iron cladding.


----------



## tcmx3

parbaked said:


> If you compare apples to apples the prices are pretty close...
> 
> 240mm Pre-laminated White steel:
> TF Nashiji: $350
> Mazaki Nashiji: $300
> 
> 240mm Blue Steel laminated in house:
> TF Denka AS: $800
> Mazaki Hon San Mai Blue: $750



yeah but a Mazaki comes ready to go out of the box and the TF Nashiji knives very, very rarely do. 

the worst Mazaki Ive owned had bevels that were in far, far more uniform a state than the best TF Ive personally owned. so, IMO Mazaki is a screaming deal in comparison. it's a toss up which stock finish is uglier.


----------



## preizzo

Owned around 20 TF in any kind of finish and line 
Owned around 100 mazaki, in all kind of finish and grind and years and steel 

Mazaki won for the simple fact that he does not not over grind his bevel. 

We can talk about it for ages, but at the end mazaki has just a rough finish 
I worked on many TF and on many mazaki and TF is just a pita to fix 
They cut well because they are grind thin, nothing else 
Mazaki have a better and complex grind behind (tried over 100 mazaki) 

Steel also we can talk for ages 
TF white 1 it s OK but does not old a edge, same for mazaki white 2 
The blue 1,2 from mazaki are rock solid (I have both Damascus and honsamai) 
The as steel being a superior steel on the paper it does not have surprising me that much, koishi line it is same steel and very good also for half of price 

Now we can talk about handles....... TF handles? ****, ****, ****, ****, ****


----------



## zizirex

lemeneid said:


> Mazaki.
> An even more overrated and overpriced TF


LOL ITS getting more overrated than Shig I guess


----------



## TSF415

preizzo said:


> Owned around 20 TF in any kind of finish and line
> Owned around 100 mazaki, in all kind of finish and grind and years and steel
> 
> Mazaki won for the simple fact that he does not not over grind his bevel.
> 
> We can talk about it for ages, but at the end mazaki has just a rough finish
> I worked on many TF and on many mazaki and TF is just a pita to fix
> They cut well because they are grind thin, nothing else
> Mazaki have a better and complex grind behind (tried over 100 mazaki)
> 
> Steel also we can talk for ages
> TF white 1 it s OK but does not old a edge, same for mazaki white 2
> The blue 1,2 from mazaki are rock solid (I have both Damascus and honsamai)
> The as steel being a superior steel on the paper it does not have surprising me that much, koishi line it is same steel and very good also for half of price
> 
> Now we can talk about handles....... TF handles? ****, ****, ****, ****, ****


----------



## zizirex

preizzo said:


> Owned around 20 TF in any kind of finish and line
> Owned around 100 mazaki, in all kind of finish and grind and years and steel
> 
> Mazaki won for the simple fact that* he does not not over grind* his bevel.
> 
> We can talk about it for ages, but at the end mazaki has just a rough finish
> I worked on many TF and on many mazaki and TF is just a pita to fix
> They cut well because they are grind thin, nothing else
> Mazaki have a better and complex grind behind (tried over 100 mazaki)
> 
> Steel also we can talk for ages
> TF white 1 it s OK but does not old a edge, same for mazaki white 2
> The blue 1,2 from mazaki are rock solid (I have both Damascus and honsamai)
> The as steel being a superior steel on the paper it does not have surprising me that much, koishi line it is same steel and very good also for half of price
> 
> Now we can talk about handles....... TF handles? ****, ****, ****, ****, ****



So Mazaki overgrind as well? yeah Mazaki HT is nice but the cladding is rust magnet and too wedgy sometimes


----------



## Corradobrit1




----------



## Corradobrit1

zizirex said:


> cladding is rust magnet


Maz learned that trick from his Sensei


----------



## Barmoley

Corradobrit1 said:


> View attachment 137222


No thread is complete without TF


----------



## Pie

tcmx3 said:


> well, the banding does
> 
> but just seeing the video where he was moving it around the knife itself is still hideous.
> 
> if this knife was coming with a really beautiful finish I could see maybe paying the price. it aint cheap, but ok. but it's not only that it's so badly finished, actually removing Mazaki's super deep scratches takes AGES and that's on soft iron cladding.



You most definitely see the scratchiness in the video. I’m sort of curious as to why it’s so random. Mine had scratches but they were all uniform and didn’t look that all over the place.

$3k project knife


----------



## tcmx3

zizirex said:


> So Mazaki overgrind as well? yeah Mazaki HT is nice but the cladding is rust magnet and too wedgy sometimes



Mazaki bevels are so even ootb that you can just refinish it easily. once you put a decent finish on them their reactivity goes WAY down. probably any iron clad knife finished that rough will display that kind of tragic poop colored patina.

the last one I bought I just put straight on a SG500 and it revealed almost no unevenness that was too much for the stone to hit immediately. probably an hour total to refinish the bevels. conversely my the Mab 210 STILL has holes in the edge. luckily it cits decently and I have the means to fix it but I would pretty peeved if it was a big purchase for me and it had that grind. 

TF knives are fine but for most people Mazakis are far more practical. especially if you want a 240.


----------



## tcmx3

I mean to be clear both can be used out of the box but a Mazaki is closer to where you want your knife to be status wise IMO.

Both are kind of short of that but the Mazaki is purely aesthetic where TF is both aesthetic and a >0 chance functionally as well. The solution for most people is probably just to buy a Kochi or Yoshikane and have a knife that is perfect ootb for around the same price or to spend up for something with a similar level of being sorted from the get-go.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I’m interested in Mazaki blue and AS honkasumi now. Probably will buy one of the next batch from K&S if I can. The honyaki makes them look like a deal. I guess that’s a brilliant sales strategy after all.


----------



## daniel_il

This 240 just came in today..this tip is crazy thin


----------



## Tanalasta

How durable are the tips?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Looks like the profile of the new batch is a bit less triangle-ish than the previous batch. Looks better to me.


----------



## madmotts

daniel_il said:


> This 240 just came in today..this tip is crazy thin


Nice! I have the same shape- kind of the precursor to the current pointy triangle with a little more curve to it. or is this new release?

Looks like someone did some work on it. How thin is it behind the edge? Mine was kind of thick. I put in sometime, but got plenty more work to do. I wonder what the choil looks like after mr @Forty Ounce works on a Mazaki.


----------



## hukdizzle

Finally broke down and spent some time on the choil of my maz, it's not perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than it was. Will probably work on smoothing and rounding it just a bit more. This example has a beautiful spine on it from I believe James at KnS.


----------



## daniel_il

madmotts said:


> Nice! I have the same shape- kind of the precursor to the current pointy triangle with a little more curve to it. or is this new release?
> 
> Looks like someone did some work on it. How thin is it behind the edge? Mine was kind of thick. I put in sometime, but got plenty more work to do. I wonder what the choil looks like after mr @Forty Ounce works on a Mazaki.



not a mazaki expert, bought it last week from - the cook's edge, the shop owner told me this batch is from end of may\ start of june.

it came zero grind so I put an edge with Cerax 1k+rika 5k and it get super sharp and easily...but its wedging ! 

definitely need some work to thin it behind the edge


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I’m interested in Mazaki blue and AS honkasumi now. Probably will buy one of the next batch from K&S if I can. The honyaki makes them look like a deal. I guess that’s a brilliant sales strategy after all.


Mazaki AS? I keep missing everything cool


----------



## Jville

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I’m interested in Mazaki blue and AS honkasumi now. Probably will buy one of the next batch from K&S if I can. The honyaki makes them look like a deal. I guess that’s a brilliant sales strategy after all.



I never seen any MAZ AS. Are you sure? I’ve seen blue 1 and 2, but no AS. Where were they sold? Has anyone else seen AS Maz? But yeah I feel totally fine with the price I paid for my Maz blue 1 and 2.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Jville said:


> I never seen any MAZ AS. Are you sure? I’ve seen blue 1 and 2, but no AS. Where were they sold? Has anyone else seen AS Maz? But yeah I feel totally fine with the price I paid for my Maz blue 1 and 2.


This


----------



## Jville

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> This
> View attachment 137583


How can you tell that is AS?


----------



## zizirex

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> This
> View attachment 137583


i thought that is just his Blue steel.
It said "Hon San Mai Aogami"


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Jville said:


> How can you tell that is AS?





zizirex said:


> i thought that is just his Blue steel.
> It said "Hon San Mai Aogami"


The last kanji is “super”. 超 of 超级


----------



## zizirex

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> The last kanji is “super”. 超 of 超级


I see, his Kanji is very "Sans Serif" I couldn't really figure it out. Style-wise his Kanji is better than Kato but it's harder to read.


----------



## Jville

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> The last kanji is “super”. 超 of 超级


Ohhh, Maz with the AS, I’m awake and super interested!


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I guess the AS 240 is gonna be $800+ but hopefully I’d be wrong. I’m also very interested.


----------



## Pie

daniel_il said:


> This 240 just came in today..this tip is crazy thinView attachment 137542
> View attachment 137543


Heck yeah it’s thin. I stabbed my cabinet door the other day, embedded the tip in the wood and the knife bounced (still being held) a couple times. I was amazed it didn’t break off. Bent a bit, yes, but still there.


----------



## Hoppy

That’s how mine was till it finally snapped off. I did it a 2nd time too before doing some minor remedial work. I think it’s inevitable with such a thin tip.


----------



## Pie

daniel_il said:


> not a mazaki expert, bought it last week from - the cook's edge, the shop owner told me this batch is from end of may\ start of june.
> 
> it came zero grind so I put an edge with Cerax 1k+rika 5k and it get super sharp and easily...but its wedging !
> 
> definitely need some work to thin it behind the edge


They look pretty thin bte but I found there’s a significant amount to take off near the edge, surprisingly. I did one round of thinning, it helped but itching to do some more. I do like the geometry/convex feeling so far tho.


----------



## daniel_il

Pie said:


> They look pretty thin bte but I found there’s a significant amount to take off near the edge, surprisingly. I did one round of thinning, it helped but itching to do some more. I do like the geometry/convex feeling so far tho.



i have to agree, mine is wedging at the front half..already started thinning it


----------



## hukdizzle

I have an older KnS model 240 from 2019 black friday, it's 270 grams with the handle. I spent a good amount of time thinning it about a month ago and while it's performance got much better all around. It still doesn't quite cut as well as my Tanaka Kyuzo so I clearly need to do some more intensive thinning on it. Fortunately the bevels were fairly even and a Shapton 120 seems to chew it up pretty well.


----------



## Pie

daniel_il said:


> i have to agree, mine is wedging at the front half..already started thinning it


Ngl I’m a little relieved to hear that, the back half is pretty decent tho. Got a brand new lobster stone ready to go


----------



## daniel_il

Pie said:


> Ngl I’m a little relieved to hear that, the back half is pretty decent tho. Got a brand new lobster stone ready to go



Back half cutting like a tojiro dp, front half can’t cut through onion 

I've order debado md-200 especially for this


----------



## Jovidah

Sounds like a reverse work horse. Lazy fat stable queen?


----------



## Tanalasta

Can’t wait to see how this patina ups and feels on a board. That tip though. So thin. Not sure it’d be a workhorse. 

Have one of his white gyuto from several years ago when KnS first started carrying my them. Good cutters.


----------



## Jville

Tanalasta said:


> View attachment 137822
> Can’t wait to see how this patina ups and feels on a board. That tip though. So thin. Not sure it’d be a workhorse.
> 
> Have one of his white gyuto from several years ago when KnS first started carrying my them. Good cutters.


What kind is this?


----------



## Pie

Tanalasta said:


> View attachment 137822
> Can’t wait to see how this patina ups and feels on a board. That tip though. So thin. Not sure it’d be a workhorse.
> 
> Have one of his white gyuto from several years ago when KnS first started carrying my them. Good cutters.


Nice! Now that’s a handle. 240 migaki w2?


----------



## Tanalasta

It’s the hon-Sanmai blue2 from KnS 

I have a W2 from years back.


----------



## Jville

Tanalasta said:


> It’s the hon-Sanmai blue2 from KnS
> 
> I have a W2 from years back.


Is that a new one they just put out. It’s nice!! I love the ones I got from them.


----------



## SolidSnake03

Okay serious question for those more in the know than me. What actually differentiates the White #2 Kasumi line from the White #2 hon-kasumi line? Is it really just the forging method along with a nicer handle? Does it actually have any appreciable differences in say performance or is it just hand forged vs stock or something? Just trying to figure out the difference especially when steel type is the same.

Was chatting with a coworker about it and best we could come up with was that but it didn’t seem conclusion enough given that neither of us actually owns one…(hon-kasumi that is)


----------



## Nagakin

SolidSnake03 said:


> Okay serious question for those more in the know than me. What actually differentiates the White #2 Kasumi line from the White #2 hon-kasumi line? Is it really just the forging method along with a nicer handle? Does it actually have any appreciable differences in say performance or is it just hand forged vs stock or something? Just trying to figure out the difference especially when steel type is the same.
> 
> Was chatting with a coworker about it and best we could come up with was that but it didn’t seem conclusion enough given that neither of us actually owns one…(hon-kasumi that is)


afaik it's just prelamination versus in-house.


----------



## Corradobrit1

I thought Maz forge welded all his knives. I don't think the steel makers offer prelaminated bar stock with the thickness Maz uses. Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## SolidSnake03

Corradobrit1 said:


> I thought Maz forge welded all his knives. I don't think the steel makers offer prelaminated bar stock with the thickness Maz uses. Correct me if I'm wrong.



I thought this was the case too….

hence some of my confusion on the hon-kasumi and what differentiates it. Like I thought he forged everything as was stated in some of the blog posts and videos about Mazaki from a year or two ago when he started getting real popular.


----------



## Corradobrit1

SolidSnake03 said:


> I thought this was the case too….
> 
> hence some of my confusion on the hon-kasumi and what differentiates it. Like I thought he forged everything as was stated in some of the blog posts and videos about Mazaki from a year or two ago when he started getting real popular.


James @pkjames should be able to provide the definitive answer.


----------



## SolidSnake03

Corradobrit1 said:


> James @pkjames should be able to provide the definitive answer.


Reached out to him too so we’ll see what I hear back on that end and will report here


----------



## Infrared

Corradobrit1 said:


> I thought Maz forge welded all his knives. I don't think the steel makers offer prelaminated bar stock with the thickness Maz uses. Correct me if I'm wrong.



I also thought the same, but K&S told me they were prelaminated. Only the hon-sanmai line is laminated by hand.

Makes me wonder just how many supposed forge weld knives are really just prelaminated.


----------



## natto

Corradobrit1 said:


> I thought Maz forge welded all his knives. I don't think the steel makers offer prelaminated bar stock with the thickness Maz uses. Correct me if I'm wrong.



There are some flat rolled prelaminated sheets available in the west, used for stock removal. A smith needs something like bars to be shaped by forging. But I don't know what is available in Japan.


----------



## spaceconvoy

Corradobrit1 said:


> I thought Maz forge welded all his knives. I don't think the steel makers offer prelaminated bar stock with the thickness Maz uses. Correct me if I'm wrong.


I'm just speculating, but wanted to point out that steel makers are not the only ones who can sell bar stock. Could be some local manufacturer who makes batches exclusively for Sanjo smiths. A business-to-business type of thing we would have no way of hearing about, especially with the language/cultural barrier. It's a small enough market for steel makers to ignore, but probably big enough for an enterprising intermediary.


----------



## Corradobrit1

spaceconvoy said:


> I'm just speculating, but wanted to point out that steel makers are not the only ones who can sell bar stock. Could be some local manufacturer who makes batches exclusively for Sanjo smiths. A business-to-business type of thing we would have no way of hearing about, especially with the language/cultural barrier. It's a small enough market for steel makers to ignore, but probably big enough for an enterprising intermediary.


My only counter point to that thought is the rarity of Maz's distal taper. I can't think of any other makers, except Kato and Jiro, who we know forge weld inhouse, that offer the extreme DT that Maz offers. That said his rate of production does seem to suggest some short cuts for his cheaper lines.


----------



## SolidSnake03

spaceconvoy said:


> I'm just speculating, but wanted to point out that steel makers are not the only ones who can sell bar stock. Could be some local manufacturer who makes batches exclusively for Sanjo smiths. A business-to-business type of thing we would have no way of hearing about, especially with the language/cultural barrier. It's a small enough market for steel makers to ignore, but probably big enough for an enterprising intermediary.



Interesting, hadn't considered that. I was just referring to a number of websites (written) and including Maxism's video that all seem to give the impression that he does everything in house/himself which to me would indicate the forging no? If so then what differentiates the hon-kasumi when it's the same steel. Basically that's the question I'm mulling over.


----------



## spaceconvoy

| |


First and only webshop in the Netherlands for professional Japanese chef's knives from different brands such as MCUSTA Zanmai, Konosuke, Hinoura, Kajibee, Tadafusa, Takayuki Sakai, Kagemitsu, Shimomura, Takamura, Masakage, etc.




www.japaneseknives.eu





Maybe it's not actually uncommon


----------



## EricEricEric

Very cool 

It makes so much sense and definitely helps streamline the process. It really increases attractiveness of making knives 









spaceconvoy said:


> | |
> 
> 
> First and only webshop in the Netherlands for professional Japanese chef's knives from different brands such as MCUSTA Zanmai, Konosuke, Hinoura, Kajibee, Tadafusa, Takayuki Sakai, Kagemitsu, Shimomura, Takamura, Masakage, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.japaneseknives.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it's not actually uncommon


----------



## madmotts

Back to talking about thinning. I’ve spent at least 3 different long thinning afternoons with this one. I’m not sure what to make of it at this point. After a sharpening progression to check it out and it’s fine. I feel like it’s gonna be another 2-3 long sessions. Any thoughts?


----------



## Pie

madmotts said:


> Back to talking about thinning. I’ve spent at least 3 different long thinning afternoons with this one. I’m not sure what to make of it at this point. After a sharpening progression to check it out and it’s fine. I feel like it’s gonna be another 2-3 long sessions. Any thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 138119


Do you have any goal or quantifiable indicator of progress? Going visually by choil shot, there might be a bit of room to keep going imo.

I guess I’m curious, thinning bte only? Flattening the convex? My first maz Thinning was focused on removing the stock finish and retaining most of his convex, really only took a couple sessions. Next will definitely be bte work

ooh also what stone(s)?


----------



## EricEricEric

After a few sessions I literally gave up on thinning, I’m not exaggerating at all. If I bought another one I would not bother to thin at all

For me in my experience with the knife, the steel felt indestructible and there was far too much of it 

The knife construction is something I appreciate more and more overtime and the whole concept is rather genius once you realize everything that’s there 







madmotts said:


> Back to talking about thinning. I’ve spent at least 3 different long thinning afternoons with this one. I’m not sure what to make of it at this point. After a sharpening progression to check it out and it’s fine. I feel like it’s gonna be another 2-3 long sessions. Any thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 138119


----------



## GorillaGrunt

I've done my Ginsan sujihiki, it took a few hours in total but the result was fabulous. Unlikely to be relevant to non stainless though.

Eta: there are some knives that I couldn't successfully thin until either my understanding of grinding and blade geometry grew or I got more stones (and possibly had to learn some more about those too, dressing coarse stone surfaces made all the difference) or both. Currently I like the American Mutt and a SP 120 with Norton stone fixer. So for this knife you might need something different from what you're using, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to say oh, for thinning this knife this stone here is a good match.


----------



## madmotts

Pie said:


> Do you have any goal or quantifiable indicator of progress? Going visually by choil shot, there might be a bit of room to keep going imo.



after this many thinning sessions, i kind of lost focus- thinning BTE and flattening out the convex, so it wouldn't appear/feel so chunky. it was so wedge/crack prone on hard product. It's better now, but still... 

I'm using 3M sandpaper and a bit of course stones i have a few ~100/200 range. The course stones all dish so fast replacing sandpaper (80grit) is way faster.



EricEricEric said:


> After a few sessions I literally gave up on thinning, I’m not exaggerating at all. If I bought another one I would not bother to thin at all
> 
> For me in my experience with the knife, the steel felt indestructible and there was far too much of it
> 
> The knife construction is something I appreciate more and more overtime and the whole concept is rather genius once you realize everything that’s there


Yes, yes and yes. I think after the next session, i need to decide on being fine with it or getting rid of it.


----------



## EricEricEric

I saw this really interesting German made device that allows you to sharpen, thin, and precisely change geometry. It used lasers and all kinds of other stuff. Not only that but it used diamond plates as well. I think you really need some kind of mechanical device and diamond to make such drastic changes to such hard and durable steel

The good news is it’s a real testament to how well the knives are made and treated. He’s making those things to last a lifetime

I will say this, my knife doesn’t split anything anymore and it’s a 270mm



madmotts said:


> after this many thinning sessions, i kind of lost focus- thinning BTE and flattening out the convex, so it wouldn't appear/feel so chunky. it was so wedge/crack prone on hard product. It's better now, but still...
> 
> I'm using 3M sandpaper and a bit of course stones i have a few ~100/200 range. The course stones all dish so fast replacing sandpaper (80grit) is way faster.
> 
> 
> Yes, yes and yes. I think after the next session, i need to decide on being fine with it or getting rid of it.


----------



## Jville

I just let my Maz be a Maz. I got thin knives if. If I want a thinner knife, I just grab a thinner knife.


----------



## Pie

GorillaGrunt said:


> I've done my Ginsan sujihiki, it took a few hours in total but the result was fabulous. Unlikely to be relevant to non stainless though.
> 
> Eta: there are some knives that I couldn't successfully thin until *either my understanding of grinding and blade geometry grew or I got more stones (and possibly had to learn some more about those too, dressing coarse stone surfaces made all the difference) or both.* Currently I like the American Mutt and a SP 120 with Norton stone fixer. So for this knife you might need something different from what you're using, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to say oh, for thinning this knife this stone here is a good match.


This puts it way better than I ever could. I still don’t know what I’m really doing, but every time I thin a knife something, good or bad, happens and I learn. Luckily most of the time I’ve been able to achieve detectable results. Every time it takes forever.

@madmotts I feel your pain, progress is slow and keeping track of what you did is difficult. There are cases where it is nigh impossible to overcome the blades’ original geometry.


----------



## hukdizzle

Got around to finishing the choil on my maz. Took it to 800 grit which is what the spine finish appears to be. Quite happy with the comfort and it certainly makes the knife look a bit nicer.

I hear you guys on the thinning. I spent a long time behind the edge on this 2019 KnS and it still needs quite a bit more work. I will say though, my maz performance was drastically better after the first session. It seems like my example was left quite fat towards the center of the knife with the tip and heel being slight over ground. I have been using an SP120 for the hogging of steel and I might pick up a Norton Crystolon to give a go as well.


----------



## RockyBasel

Could it be that the Mazaki craze is going to be cooling off here on KKF? Well, at least until the next profile - so maybe every 3-4 months of so - it’s a thin line (laminated) between love and hate - as the band once said


----------



## RevJoe

So the current profile is using a prelaminated steel? Is that what I getting out of this recent thread activity? I have not kept up with was reading just the last page or two.


----------



## Nagakin

2019 was a lot to live up to...this was OOTB. 

279x64x5mm
278g (w/ stock handle)


----------



## TSF415

The yoshihiro/ckc/whoever else got a batch at that time needed no thinning at all.


----------



## IsoJ

2019 KU ones from CKC didn't need thinning bte but migaki ones from K&S and CC needed thinning IMO.


----------



## TSF415

Yea my bad. I only tried the Ku’s, so my comment doesn’t apply to the migaki. 

I have one of the first blue#2’s he put out which was around the same time and it needed some love right behind the edge.


----------



## EricEricEric

I thinned the entire blade down a lot, the bevel is flat now. Before the bevel was very full and rounded




Nagakin said:


> 2019 was a lot to live up to...this was OOTB.
> 
> 279x64x5mm
> 278g (w/ stock handle)
> 
> View attachment 138141


----------



## preizzo

Jville said:


> I just let my Maz be a Maz. I got thin knives if. If I want a thinner knife, I just grab a thinner knife.


Exactly


----------



## SolidSnake03

Still radio silence on the specifics of the regular white #2 vs hon kasumi white #2 from official sources. It was over the weekend so wasn’t expected anything yet but wanted to at least provide an update on that question i posed.


----------



## Vdark

Or just get one prepped already from bst


----------



## Jville

Has anyone really had a lot of experience or paid great attention to the characteristics of the Maz blue steel ht. I just put my Maz blue 1 on the stones. I think it would of held up a lot longer without needing any type of sharpening, but I got a little rough with mine on the board chopping herbs, kind of test it a bit, plus I needed to chop some herbs and already had it out. The back was still very sharp but the edge had degraded in the middle from me roughing it up. I’m curious if anyone has compared it to something like TF AS. I don’t have a Denka so I can’t. But the Maz seems like it would hold an edge for quite awhile. The steel is supposed to be treated to a pretty high HRC. Curious on others thoughts on it.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Jville said:


> Has anyone really had a lot of experience or paid great attention to the characteristics of the Maz blue steel ht. I just put my Maz blue 1 on the stones. I think it would of held up a lot longer without needing any type of sharpening, but I got a little rough with mine on the board chopping herbs, kind of test it a bit, plus I needed to chop some herbs and already had it out. The back was still very sharp but the edge had degraded in the middle from me roughing it up. I’m curious if anyone has compared it to something like TF AS. I don’t have a Denka so I can’t. But the Maz seems like it would hold an edge for quite awhile. The steel is supposed to be treated to a pretty high HRC. Curious on others thoughts on it.


Have you used Y Tanaka or Watoyama blue steels (I think everyone has used one of them)? How does Mazaki blue compare to those in terms of edge retention?


----------



## Jville

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Have you used Y Tanaka or Watoyama blue steels (I think everyone has used one of them)? How does Mazaki blue compare to those in terms of edge retention?


This is a good point. Yeah I have Tanaka (although no blue 1 only blue2s) and Toyama, which both also are hard and hold a great edge. And although I disagree with the notion that knife users can’t tell the difference between steels and different HTs, I’ll admit that when you get certain ones like these three it becomes trickier. But compare these for example to kurasaki AS or Anryu blue and you can tell they are harder than both.


----------



## preizzo

Got this paper when i got the damascus kurouchi honsanmai in shirogami 2 from mazaki San 

The shirogami 2 in this damascus Is definetly superior to his current shirogami 2 
It Sharp Better ,Better edge ritencion


----------



## EricEricEric

What are the stats on his honyaki then, I don’t think the steel can get any harder, right?


----------



## preizzo

Mazaki aogami 2 Chinese cleaver


----------



## Pie

preizzo said:


> Mazaki aogami 2 Chinese cleaver


Whatttttt where did this come from . Love that KU he does, beautiful knife! Any choil shot available?


----------



## BillHanna

Pie said:


> Whatttttt where did this come from . Love that KU he does, beautiful knife! Any choil shot available?


Seconded.


----------



## Jville

BillHanna said:


> Seconded.


Thirded


----------



## tostadas

Pie said:


> Whatttttt where did this come from . Love that KU he does, beautiful knife! Any choil shot available?





BillHanna said:


> Seconded.



Yes.


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

preizzo said:


> Mazaki aogami 2 Chinese cleaver


it's ****ing suminagashi?????

@preizzo officially has the biggest peenys in this thread


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Mazaki literally makes all the knives, i don’t know why I’m still surprised when I see something like that, the cleaver, the AS, etc


----------



## Bigbbaillie

I don't want to think about how much that cleaver must cost though.


----------



## tostadas

preizzo said:


> Mazaki aogami 2 Chinese cleaver


I'm googling for the recipe for that handle


----------



## preizzo

Bigbbaillie said:


> I don't want to think about how much that cleaver must cost though.


Not that expensive actually


----------



## RockyBasel

preizzo said:


> Not that expensive actually


It boggles my tiny mind, not only do you get it, but you don’t pay much for it  how? How?


----------



## preizzo

RockyBasel said:


> It boggles my tiny mind, not only do you get it, but you don’t pay much for it  how? How?


#maziking


----------



## preizzo

RockyBasel said:


> It boggles my tiny mind, not only do you get it, but you don’t pay much for it  how? How?


I know he did 3 more so let's see who and where they will show up


----------



## RockyBasel

preizzo said:


> I know he did 3 more so let's see who and where they will show up


Love my nine. Honyaki btw, thanks for the recommendation of the maker. Rob is a great guy to work with


----------



## Jville

preizzo said:


> #maziking


Choil shot?


----------



## preizzo

Jville said:


> Choil shot?


It s on the way to me ,will get it soon


----------



## Bigbbaillie

preizzo said:


> Not that expensive actually


That feeling when $1000+ for a knife becomes "not that expensive." I wish I had that kind of money.


----------



## Jville

preizzo said:


> It s on the way to me ,will get it soon


Oh, this is a recent acquisition. Wonder if he will do more. Looks like his old Skool KU that I really liked. You need to connect me to the powers at be, would love to score one!


----------



## preizzo

Bigbbaillie said:


> That feeling when $1000+ for a knife becomes "not that expensive." I wish I had that kind of money.


That is expensive actually


----------



## ModRQC

Mine Migaki of the latest batch didn't need thinning at all. On the contrary: I'd add some more of the former bulk Mazaki had in the grind. My old one had much better food release. Yet for what it is intrinsically, the new Maz is quite nice. Need to think out of Maz, out of Sanjo box to appreciate it. With some work on the terrible handle, it's now less than 150g for a 210mm - quite the light midweight. Except for the crazy taper and 5mm at heel, I'd more readily compare it to something Echizen forged. Even a S. Tanaka Aogami has more beef in the grind then the new Migaki Maz.

Quite the deception if they really are prelams. I understand for the price, but... at the same time, the clad line on mine is beautifully cloudy and runs quite high up the apex. I always thought such were the signs of forge weld.

But I guess it wouldn't be the only case of "abusing" the forge weld, in-house claims on the J market. Like with S. Tanaka precisely, who "forges everything in his own shop"... yeah, I'm sure he risks forging VG-10 SS Damascus in house and still sell them below 300$ CAD. Or SG2... Or the Ginsan Nashiji which is a joke really: I've seen a few Ginsan Nashiji firsthand, and they all left me with one impression: same prelam from a same source. I'm sure the S. Tanaka is no different.

And yet S. Tanaka Damascus has a distinctive Damascus, so it's really confusing for someone like me that doesn't really know anything about knifemaking and buying prelams, to differenciate if it's even possible at all that a S. Tanaka forges his own SS blades, or if it's even possible that makers can buy prelams with a distinctive Damascus pattern set just for them. 

Where's the truth?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

ModRQC said:


> Mine Migaki of the latest batch didn't need thinning at all. On the contrary: I'd add some more of the former bulk Mazaki had in the grind. My old one had much better food release. Yet for what it is intrinsically, the new Maz is quite nice. Need to think out of Maz, out of Sanjo box to appreciate it. With some work on the terrible handle, it's now less than 150g for a 210mm - quite the light midweight. Except for the crazy taper and 5mm at heel, I'd more readily compare it to something Echizen forged. Even a S. Tanaka Aogami has more beef in the grind then the new Migaki Maz.
> 
> Quite the deception if they really are prelams. I understand for the price, but... at the same time, the clad line on mine is beautifully cloudy and runs quite high up the apex. I always thought such were the signs of forge weld.
> 
> But I guess it wouldn't be the only case of "abusing" the forge weld, in-house claims on the J market. Like with S. Tanaka precisely, who "forges everything in his own shop"... yeah, I'm sure he risks forging VG-10 SS Damascus in house and still sell them below 300$ CAD. Or SG2... Or the Ginsan Nashiji which is a joke really: I've seen a few Ginsan Nashiji firsthand, and they all left me with one impression: same prelam from a same source. I'm sure the S. Tanaka is no different.
> 
> And yet S. Tanaka Damascus has a distinctive Damascus, so it's really confusing for someone like me that doesn't really know anything about knifemaking and buying prelams, to differenciate if it's even possible at all that a S. Tanaka forges his own SS blades, or if it's even possible that makers can buy prelams with a distinctive Damascus pattern set just for them.
> 
> Where's the truth?


As far as I know, damascus patter for R2 is customizable. Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s not likely S Tanaka is not using prelams for the reasons you already spoke well.

For Mazaki, I also heard from K&S NY that the $300 white 2 is using prelam. If you really want a <$300 in house welded sanmai white 2 knife, Munetoshi is a better bet IMO.


----------



## MowgFace

ModRQC said:


> S. Tanaka precisely, who "forges everything in his own shop"... yeah,



For sure has a ton of ambiguity. Does a pre-lam billet count as "forged" if they forge the billet to shape? Is it "forged" if they cold forge the pre-lam'd knife shaped object? Or do we only count knives made from in house forged welded billets, as forged?

I have long given up on scrutinizing these details if i really am in love with a knife. I do understand, however, that many folks have not been in the game as long as i have necessarily, and could use the help deciding between two knives.

It usually comes down to me asking myself as technology advances, do i care if a craftsman does everything by hand,? Or if the craftsman able to get the same results using modern methods? I feel like there is a emotional draw to the one person operations, but in the end I care less about sifting through the BS to determine if indeed my knife was quenched in the hallowed tears of 1000 dragon virgins, and more so if it brings me the Marie Kondo Joy.


----------



## ModRQC

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> As far as I know, damascus patter for R2 is customizable. Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s not likely S Tanaka is not using prelams for the reasons you already spoke well.
> 
> For Mazaki, I also heard from K&S NY that the $300 white 2 is using prelam. If you really want a <$300 in house welded sanmai white 2 knife, Munetoshi is a better bet IMO.



Thanks for that. I don’t especially want a 300$ CAD knife to be fully forged in house. I just hate the imprecision of the information given to us.



MowgFace said:


> For sure has a ton of ambiguity. Does a pre-lam billet count as "forged" if they forge the billet to shape? Is it "forged" if they cold forge the pre-lam'd knife shaped object? Or do we only count knives made from in house forged welded billets, as forged?
> 
> I have long given up on scrutinizing these details if i really am in love with a knife. I do understand, however, that many folks have not been in the game as long as i have necessarily, and could use the help deciding between two knives.
> 
> It usually comes down to me asking myself as technology advances, do i care if a craftsman does everything by hand,? Or if the craftsman able to get the same results using modern methods? I feel like there is a emotional draw to the one person operations, but in the end I care less about sifting through the BS to determine if indeed my knife was quenched in the hallowed tears of 1000 dragon virgins, and more so if it brings me the Marie Kondo Joy.



As I just said, I’m not especially drawn by any claims. Like you it’s down to the knife and as I said, I quite like the new Maz.

But it just puts so many things into question. Many vendors claim 64 RC for the supposedly prelam White #2. If a prelam, I highly doubt that claim.

Steel sharpens well though and holds an edge very well for W#2. In sharpening however I had already assumed it was no more than a very regular 61-62 RC. No harder than Y. Tanaka W#2 at best. That one also held onto an edge quite nicely, but no better. So even forge weld in house doesn’t seem to necessarily mean higher quality HT, hence why I don’t focus on these claims. They just irritate me, the bulk of lies we’re subjected to.


----------



## spaceconvoy

That word "forged" seems to cause some confusion on the forums  There is no contradiction in saying that prelaminated stock has been forged (into shape) and then heat treated in house. Where is the lie?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

ModRQC said:


> Thanks for that. I don’t especially want a 300$ CAD knife to be fully forged in house. I just hate the imprecision of the information given to us.
> 
> 
> 
> As I just said, I’m not especially drawn by any claims. Like you it’s down to the knife and as I said, I quite like the new Maz.
> 
> But it just puts so many things into question. Many vendors claim 64 RC for the supposedly prelam White #2. If a prelam, I highly doubt that claim.
> 
> Steel sharpens well though and holds an edge very well for W#2. In sharpening however I had already assumed it was no more than a very regular 61-62 RC. No harder than Y. Tanaka W#2 at best. That one also held onto an edge quite nicely, but no better. So even forge weld in house doesn’t seem to necessarily mean higher quality HT, hence why I don’t focus on these claims. They just irritate me, the bulk of lies we’re subjected to.


Do those Japanese makers really test their HRC? I doubt that. For Mazaki Blues and Sukenaris I've seen or heard about a hardness test, but do others really test their HRC? I especially don't believe what vendors put there about the hardness unless I saw some proof. If the type of steel (white 1 vs 2 vs 3 or blue 1 vs 2 vs super) is not engraved on the knife, I won't believe what the vendor says, either.


----------



## Barmoley

ModRQC said:


> Thanks for that. I don’t especially want a 300$ CAD knife to be fully forged in house. I just hate the imprecision of the information given to us.
> 
> 
> 
> As I just said, I’m not especially drawn by any claims. Like you it’s down to the knife and as I said, I quite like the new Maz.
> 
> But it just puts so many things into question. Many vendors claim 64 RC for the supposedly prelam White #2. If a prelam, I highly doubt that claim.
> 
> Steel sharpens well though and holds an edge very well for W#2. In sharpening however I had already assumed it was no more than a very regular 61-62 RC. No harder than Y. Tanaka W#2 at best. That one also held onto an edge quite nicely, but no better. So even forge weld in house doesn’t seem to necessarily mean higher quality HT, hence why I don’t focus on these claims. They just irritate me, the bulk of lies we’re subjected to.


Prelam or not has nothing to do with hardness. Hardness is a nice single number, so we like to concentrate on it, but as both Larrin and Shawn shown multiple times there is more to it. You can have different carbide structure, stability and toughness at the same hardness so just knowing hardness tells you something, but doesn't give you the whole picture. Add to that that many claims of hardness are based on approximations that come from a heat treat recipe and not an actual test and what do we really know?


----------



## Infrared

Hammer forged and forge weld are two different things, and you should always assume the former when a seller says "forged" unless specified otherwise.



Hz_zzzzzz said:


> If you really want a <$300 in house welded sanmai white 2 knife, Munetoshi is a better bet IMO.



According to Knifewear they are prelaminated.


----------



## ModRQC

I can conceive anything said here, but there are lies nonetheless. Like vendors making the bold claims: Mazaki does everything single handedly in-house, and then answering you by email that such line is prelam. So no wonder there is confusion. Mine is not about terminology, it’s about not using it (like the Mazaki claim above) or misusing it or using a single claim applying only to the higher end knives as a blanket to cover the whole maker with gloriously.

There’s one thing I said that still has me curious and I’d use your lights about it: I really thought a high-up clad line with a unevenly wavy pattern and that kind of cloudiness surrouding the demarcation was a clear sign of a forge welded construct. And that most prelams came with a rather straight clad line. I know it can be customized (say Deep Impact) but can it also be obtained from a straight prelam clad line by forging to shape or other means?


----------



## spaceconvoy

ModRQC said:


> I can conceive anything said here, but there are lies nonetheless. Like vendors making the bold claims: Mazaki does everything single handedly in-house, and then answering you by email that such line is prelam. So no wonder there is confusion. Mine is not about terminology, it’s about not using it (like the Mazaki claim above) or misusing it or using a single claim applying only to the higher end knives as a blanket to cover the whole maker with gloriously.
> 
> There’s one thing I said that still has me curious and I’d use your lights about it: I really thought a high-up clad line with a unevenly wavy pattern and that kind of cloudiness surrouding the demarcation was a clear sign of a forge welded construct. And that most prelams came with a rather straight clad line. I know it can be customized (say Deep Impact) but can it also be obtained from a straight prelam clad line by forging to shape or other means?


Saying he does everything single handedly means he's a one man operation with no assistants. Do you expect him to smelt the steel and cut the wood for his handles as well? And you're conflating 'prelaminated' with 'stock removal'


----------



## Garm

Two knives made from same material, but from two different startpoints. Both definitely hand forged, and later heat treated. Don't really know what Hon-Kasumi means, and if the second video's method and result would qualify.

The width at the neck, it seems, can be whatever the blacksmith wants, within reason of course.
I think a higher or lower clad line is more indicative of to what extent the knife is forged to final shape, meaning how aggressive the taper is forged from spine to edge, vs. how much grinding needs to be done, or how that grind is achieved.
Have noe clue if this is the truth, but it seems logical to me at least.


----------



## Barmoley

I am not a maker, but I don’t think you can assume that straight or high clad line is an indication of anything. If anything prelam is probably more consistent on average with thickness and cemtering of the core, so when ground evenly on both sides tends to have straighter clad lines. On the other hand we know that makers can still forge prelam blanks, so that can change how these would look. Bottom line is prelam doesn’t mean inferior and I would say that it is more consistent. You’d be limited by the combination of cladding and core, but not in quality. In house lamination is more time consuming and more labor intensive so that’s where the extra cost comes from, but it is not necessarily an indication of better quality. Toyama is prelam as far as I know and no one Is complaining about these. You tend to see more delams and other forging faults in in-house laminations since they are not easy to do.

I also don’t necessarily think vendors are lying in most cases, some of it is language and some just ambiguity in what forged actually means. Everything starts as forged at the factory after all. So how much do you need to bang on the piece of steel before you can call it forged?


----------



## Pie

ModRQC said:


> I can conceive anything said here, but there are lies nonetheless. Like vendors making the bold claims: Mazaki does everything single handedly in-house, and then answering you by email that such line is prelam. So no wonder there is confusion. Mine is not about terminology, it’s about not using it (like the Mazaki claim above) or misusing it or using a single claim applying only to the higher end knives as a blanket to cover the whole maker with gloriously.
> 
> There’s one thing I said that still has me curious and I’d use your lights about it: I really thought a high-up clad line with a unevenly wavy pattern and that kind of cloudiness surrouding the demarcation was a clear sign of a forge welded construct. And that most prelams came with a rather straight clad line. I know it can be customized (say Deep Impact) but can it also be obtained from a straight prelam clad line by forging to shape or other means?


The cladding line on mine is a gongshow. It IS quite clear with limited cloudiness, but it’s high (highest I’ve ever seen) and it’s super wavy. In contrast, a budget (and likely prefabricated billet construction) togashi knife I have has a straight, low cladding line. Really I have no idea if that information is indicative of any specific production method. All I know is it looks quite different. My mazaki’s tip also has absolutely no cladding on it, just pure core steel mashed paper thin.

I mean itd be cool if mazaki did the lamination in house, but it’s kind of like achievements in video games these days - something inconsequential to talk To your friends about, but when you’re cutting/sharpening/polishing, it’s leas significant. To me anyways.


----------



## Garm

Barmoley said:


> Bottom line is prelam doesn’t mean inferior and I would say that it is more consistent. You’d be limited by the combination of cladding and core, but not in quality. In house lamination is more time consuming and more labor intensive so that’s where the extra cost comes from, but it is not necessarily an indication of better quality.


This was the point I was trying to make with the two videos.

As for cladding lines, my thought is that if a blacksmith forges a blade to within 30% of targeted thickness at the edge, and then another to within 10%, the former knife will have a higher cladding line due to the thickness of the three layers of material, provided he grinds them the same.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Infrared said:


> Hammer forged and forge weld are two different things, and you should always assume the former when a seller says "forged" unless specified otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> According to Knifewear they are prelaminated.


According to JNS they are hand laminated.


----------



## ModRQC

spaceconvoy said:


> Saying he does everything single handedly means he's a one man operation with no assistants. Do you expect him to smelt the steel and cut the wood for his handles as well? And you're conflating 'prelaminated' with 'stock removal'



Lol  man go take a nap or something…


----------



## Barmoley

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> According to JNS they are hand laminated.
> View attachment 138442


This was written years ago when these just appeared and never changed. JNS doesn’t even carry mazaki anymore, so you can’t go by this for current production. With the numbers of vendors and knives out there, how can he possibly hand laminate all of it?


----------



## ModRQC

Garm said:


> Two knives made from same material, but from two different startpoints. Both definitely hand forged, and later heat treated. Don't really know what Hon-Kasumi means, and if the second video's method and result would qualify.
> 
> The width at the neck, it seems, can be whatever the blacksmith wants, within reason of course.
> I think a higher or lower clad line is more indicative of to what extent the knife is forged to final shape, meaning how aggressive the taper is forged from spine to edge, vs. how much grinding needs to be done, or how that grind is achieved.
> Have noe clue if this is the truth, but it seems logical to me at least.





Barmoley said:


> I am not a maker, but I don’t think you can assume that straight or high clad line is an indication of anything. If anything prelam is probably more consistent on average with thickness and cemtering of the core, so when ground evenly on both sides tends to have straighter clad lines. On the other hand we know that makers can still forge prelam blanks, so that can change how these would look. Bottom line is prelam doesn’t mean inferior and I would say that it is more consistent. You’d be limited by the combination of cladding and core, but not in quality. In house lamination is more time consuming and more labor intensive so that’s where the extra cost comes from, but it is not necessarily an indication of better quality. Toyama is prelam as far as I know and no one Is complaining about these. You tend to see more delams and other forging faults in in-house laminations since they are not easy to do.
> 
> I also don’t necessarily think vendors are lying in most cases, some of it is language and some just ambiguity in what forged actually means. Everything starts as forged at the factory after all. So how much do you need to bang on the piece of steel before you can call it forged?





Pie said:


> The cladding line on mine is a gongshow. It IS quite clear with limited cloudiness, but it’s high (highest I’ve ever seen) and it’s super wavy. In contrast, a budget (and likely prefabricated billet construction) togashi knife I have has a straight, low cladding line. Really I have no idea if that information is indicative of any specific production method. All I know is it looks quite different. My mazaki’s tip also has absolutely no cladding on it, just pure core steel mashed paper thin.
> 
> I mean itd be cool if mazaki did the lamination in house, but it’s kind of like achievements in video games these days - something inconsequential to talk To your friends about, but when you’re cutting/sharpening/polishing, it’s leas significant. To me anyways. View attachment 138440
> View attachment 138441



Thanks guys!

Nevertheless when the prelam subject was broke a couple pages earlier more than one seemed surprised. So there is indeed misinformation carried widely enough with blanket statements.

I think KNS description is about as honest as it comes and formulated in a way to avoid blanket statement while still underlining how much skills go into making these. It’s rarely the case when looking broadly.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Barmoley said:


> This was written years ago when these just appeared and never changed. JNS doesn’t even carry mazaki anymore, so you can’t go by this for current production. With the numbers of vendors and knives out there, how can he possibly hand laminate all of it?


That is for Munetoshi and Munetoshi was the one I and Infrared talked about.


----------



## M1k3

Height of cladding line also has to do with how thick the core steel is, and how narrow the grind is at and near the edge.


----------



## Barmoley

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> That is for Munetoshi and Munetoshi was the one I and Infrared talked about.


Ah, you are right, I always forget about the thread drift. I bet this was put up there in the beginning. Maksim has a tendency of not changing descriptions often, do you think he changes age of smiths every year on their birthday?


----------



## kpham12

Barmoley said:


> This was written years ago when these just appeared and never changed. JNS doesn’t even carry mazaki anymore, so you can’t go by this for current production. With the numbers of vendors and knives out there, how can he possibly hand laminate all of it?





Hz_zzzzzz said:


> That is for Munetoshi and Munetoshi was the one I and Infrared talked about.



I thought the same thing when I did research before buying a Mazaki a while back. I had read that he laminated and did everything in house, but by the time I got around to getting one, Mazaki had been picked up by many popular knife stores and his output seemed really high to the point I thought it must be way too much work for him to hand laminate all the knives and do everything else on his own.

Then, when I picked up a Munetoshi a few months ago, I read the JNS description that they were hand laminated, but by then Munetoshi had also risen significantly in popularity and was being sold by several other retailers besides JNS so I was wondering the same thing about whether he was still doing everything by hand.

Either way, I don’t mind because that Munetoshi white steel is something special and the price point is excellent.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Barmoley said:


> Ah, you are right, I always forget about the thread drift. I bet this was put up there in the beginning. Maksim has a tendency of not changing descriptions often, do you think he changes age of smiths every year on their birthday?


What’s the reason for me to think Munetoshi has changed his way since Maksim posted that description? 

I actually went to knifewear, cleancut, thecooksedge and realsharpknife, and didn’t see any word about prelamination. Realsharpedge actually also says it’s hand laminated but I guess they just copied that from JNS.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I don’t care much about how the sanmai is laminated, but knowing it’s hand laminated definitely adds its perceived value to me. I mean after 10s maybe 100s of knives, are you still looking for pure functionality? We are all looking for something special/rare/fun, no? And hand laminated sanmai is cool and special, which justifies Mazaki blue honsanmai’s price IMO.


----------



## Barmoley

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> What’s the reason for me to think Munetoshi has changed his way since Maksim posted that description?
> 
> I actually went to knifewear, cleancut, thecooksedge and realsharpknife, and didn’t see any word about prelamination. Realsharpedge actually also says it’s hand laminated but I guess they just copied that from JNS.


I don’t know about munetoshi at all, I was just pointing out that descriptions rarely change even if the knives do, that’s all. Someone somewhere said that munetoshi might be pre laminated too, I have no idea, but that wouldn’t surprise me. my original comment was about mazaki I missed that you started discussing munetoshi.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Betcha Mazaki mines all the iron in the world and the existence of “steel factories” is some sort of space lizard conspiracy


----------



## GorillaGrunt

Magneto: William Stryker, the only other man I know who can manipulate adamantium.

Mazaki: o hai guyz ::blows and pops a gum bubble::


----------



## Infrared

Just wanted to give an update on the Munetoshi. I double checked with Knifewear and they confirmed that they are not laminated by hand. They do carry a different finish (migaki), if that matters.

That being said, does anyone have experience with both Mazaki and Munetoshi white #2? Which is harder? Any Difference in edge retention?


----------



## ModRQC

Infrared said:


> Just wanted to give an update on the Munetoshi. I double checked with Knifewear and they confirmed that they are not laminated by hand. They do carry a different finish (migaki), if that matters.
> 
> That being said, does anyone have experience with both Mazaki and Munetoshi white #2? Which is harder? Any Difference in edge retention?



Wouldn't go so far as to speak of harder or better edge retention, and no Mune experience, but I've had a few nice W#2 with Y. Tanaka (perhaps not his target steel but his is pretty excellent still), M. Hinoura, and the present Mazaki. I think of all of them to hit about the same hardness, which I'd peg to be 62-63 at best. At that they all feel softer than say Shi.Han 52100 62 HRC on the stones (to have a maker where we can ascertain some truth with HT and target hardness), but when you consider how simpler W#2 is, probably more an effect of extra ease of sharpening. Won't speak of Hinoura retention cause I didn't have it long enough, and never sharpened it. Can say Mazaki retention is very good for W#2, as was the Y. Tanaka, but both still W#2.

One thing that really stands apart with the Mazaki is this: so very little food discoloration. Even after a fresh sharpening. Even after torturing it with tomatoes and onions and some green onion before finishing off with some garlic cloves. Where of course I could easily see discoloration in the clove, but nothing like super duper steep reactivity anywhere in the prep switching in between the above acidics to freshly rinsed lettuce to peppers and whatnot. Food discoloration is nothing much more that SS clad AS or B#2 can do. 

Very little food discoloration. Very good cladding behavior. Resistance of both core and cladding to discoloration in themselves is surprising for iron clad W#2.


----------



## Infrared

Any experience with softer white #2 steel, to compare with Mazaki?


----------



## tcmx3

Infrared said:


> Any experience with softer white #2 steel, to compare with Mazaki?



a single HRC number isnt very useful in telling you about steel.

Mazaki's white 2 is one of the better ones in my opinion though; takes and holds a steep edge without the chippiness of some other houses that like big numbers.


----------



## Hamesjo

ModRQC said:


> Wouldn't go so far as to speak of harder or better edge retention, and no Mune experience, but I've had a few nice W#2 with Y. Tanaka (perhaps not his target steel but his is pretty excellent still), M. Hinoura, and the present Mazaki. I think of all of them to hit about the same hardness, which I'd peg to be 62-63 at best. At that they all feel softer than say Shi.Han 52100 62 HRC on the stones (to have a maker where we can ascertain some truth with HT and target hardness), but when you consider how simpler W#2 is, probably more an effect of extra ease of sharpening. Won't speak of Hinoura retention cause I didn't have it long enough, and never sharpened it. Can say Mazaki retention is very good for W#2, as was the Y. Tanaka, but both still W#2.
> 
> One thing that really stands apart with the Mazaki is this: so very little food discoloration. Even after a fresh sharpening. Even after torturing it with tomatoes and onions and some green onion before finishing off with some garlic cloves. Where of course I could easily see discoloration in the clove, but nothing like super duper steep reactivity anywhere in the prep switching in between the above acidics to freshly rinsed lettuce to peppers and whatnot. Food discoloration is nothing much more that SS clad AS or B#2 can do.
> 
> Very little food discoloration. Very good cladding behavior. Resistance of both core and cladding to discoloration in themselves is surprising for iron clad W#2.



That's super interesting, the Mazaki I have causes intense discoloration. I minced a single shallot and it discolored before my eyes in a matter of seconds. Top 3 most reactive knife I've ever handled. I love everything else about it but that trait prevents me from using it often. I've tried giving it a high grit polish to mitigate that but still pretty damn reactive


----------



## preizzo

Hamesjo said:


> That's super interesting, the Mazaki I have causes intense discoloration. I minced a single shallot and it discolored before my eyes in a matter of seconds. Top 3 most reactive knife I've ever handled. I love everything else about it but that trait prevents me from using it often. I've tried giving it a high grit polish to mitigate that but still pretty damn reactive


Cut some protein before and build up a nice deep blueish patina ,it will help


----------



## zizirex

My Mazaki did microchip before starts to dull. I would say that Hinoura and Mazaki HT on W#2 is almost the same. they last quite a while for simple Shirogami 2.


----------



## Pie

Hamesjo said:


> That's super interesting, the Mazaki I have causes intense discoloration. I minced a single shallot and it discolored before my eyes in a matter of seconds. Top 3 most reactive knife I've ever handled. I love everything else about it but that trait prevents me from using it often. I've tried giving it a high grit polish to mitigate that but still pretty damn reactive




This is what I’ve experienced too. Both of mine pick up a dirty brown color patina really quick on the stock finish. High polish does help (and shows intense blue/purple on proteins and acidic food), but it’s one of the knives where one use = opportunity to repolish. Funny enough, it’s my most used knife for this reason. I’ll polish it every week or so just for kicks and to see it turn crazy colors next meal prep. Sometimes I buy and break down a pineapple just to see the whole blade turn smoky dark purple.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

I’ve had both Mazaki and Munetoshi white gyuto. I’d want to say the Mazaki is harder although not in my experience brittle or chippy, while the Munetoshi is very hard but tougher, like Tosa forged blue steel. However!! I’m not comparing migaki to migaki or kurouchi to kurouchi and grind matters when it comes to edge durability. The Munetoshi KU has a lower shinogi than Mazaki’s rather high one too whereas the Mazaki kasumi is super thin behind the edge, so I can’t attribute my user experience solely to the steel. Both very good implementations of white though, as are Hinoura and Nakagawa.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I’ve had both and the Mazaki felt a little glassier on the stone, but I felt the Mazaki was also a little tougher with zero edge bevel. Not sure why and how. The Munetoshi got a little sharper easier (both raising the burr and deburr). The edge retention of both is white 2 level and I can’t tell which one is noticeable better. I liked Munetoshi steel better because given the similar edge retention it’s easier to get sharp and clean.


----------



## ModRQC

Hamesjo said:


> That's super interesting, the Mazaki I have causes intense discoloration. I minced a single shallot and it discolored before my eyes in a matter of seconds. Top 3 most reactive knife I've ever handled. I love everything else about it but that trait prevents me from using it often. I've tried giving it a high grit polish to mitigate that but still pretty damn reactive



Yeah so far I've been like... expecting it to explode into reactivity at some point. I'm not saying its extra nice behavior is not peculiar. And there is discoloration - but it's mostly behaving like any carbon core in SS clad where food is concerned.



Pie said:


> This is what I’ve experienced too. Both of mine pick up a dirty brown color patina really quick on the stock finish. High polish does help (and shows intense blue/purple on proteins and acidic food), but it’s one of the knives where one use = opportunity to repolish. Funny enough, it’s my most used knife for this reason. I’ll polish it every week or so just for kicks and to see it turn crazy colors next meal prep. Sometimes I buy and break down a pineapple just to see the whole blade turn smoky dark purple.



Then again you are mostly talking patina. I was really talking about food discoloration. But as it comes they're usually going hand in hand there and I must admit the general patina taking, while keen, is still rather slow for the construction too. 

It was a bit more reactive with the OOTB edge somehow, but even there it surprised me. I really thought the sharpening at last (with no etching, polishing or any other treatment) would start this thing going crazy patina. Still waiting...  

The whole blade does have much more of a final polishing job done than most iron clad I experienced. And I don't mean stones, but rather belt and compound or something. Patterns of the handmade finish is unmistakable and rather "coarse", but texture there was about none with mine. It feels as smooth and looks as mirror-shiny as what I would get out of P3000 sandpaper finishing and some buffing with metal compound. Scratches from the bevelling on stones are coarse on the core steel, yet the core has quite the mirror shine and smooth texture. Makes me think of work on rather coarse or med-coarse stones for bevelling going directly to a high polish without much stone work done in progression to blend the scratches. 

Both you guys have the Migaki right?


----------



## Hamesjo

ModRQC said:


> Yeah so far I've been like... expecting it to explode into reactivity at some point. I'm not saying its extra nice behavior is not peculiar. And there is discoloration - but it's mostly behaving like any carbon core in SS clad where food is concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Then again you are mostly talking patina. I was really talking about food discoloration. But as it comes they're usually going hand in hand there and I must admit the general patina taking, while keen, is still rather slow for the construction too.
> 
> It was a bit more reactive with the OOTB edge somehow, but even there it surprised me. I really thought the sharpening at last (with no etching, polishing or any other treatment) would start this thing going crazy patina. Still waiting...
> 
> The whole blade does have much more of a final polishing job done than most iron clad I experienced. And I don't mean stones, but rather belt and compound or something. Patterns of the handmade finish is unmistakable and rather "coarse", but texture there was about none with mine. It feels as smooth and looks as mirror-shiny as what I would get out of P3000 sandpaper finishing and some buffing with metal compound. Scratches from the bevelling on stones are coarse on the core steel, yet the core has quite the mirror shine and smooth texture. Makes me think of work on rather coarse or med-coarse stones for bevelling going directly to a high polish without much stone work done in progression to blend the scratches.
> 
> Both you guys have the Migaki right?



Actually I have a KU finish so that can explain the difference. The core on mine is less smooth and mirror-y than how you describe yours, but mine shares your assessment of the coarse stone on bevelling and unblended scratches.


----------



## ModRQC

Mine KU from an older batch was more roughly textured on the bevel and it would discolor and patina like a mad man indeed. Thanks for answering.


----------



## Tanalasta

Some old photos …I remember the cladding being rather reactive


----------



## Tanalasta

And here is a new one fresh out of the box …


----------



## Matt Jacobs

I had a 240 gyuto and a 150 petty purchased at the same time. The 240 was ridiculously reactive and the petty was not at all. I almost thought the petty had some kind of lacquer on it. I occasionally wipe my carbon knives down with Balistol and find that it really tames the patina but that was not the case with that gyuto.


----------



## Pie

ModRQC said:


> Yeah so far I've been like... expecting it to explode into reactivity at some point. I'm not saying its extra nice behavior is not peculiar. And there is discoloration - but it's mostly behaving like any carbon core in SS clad where food is concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Then again you are mostly talking patina. I was really talking about food discoloration. But as it comes they're usually going hand in hand there and I must admit the general patina taking, while keen, is still rather slow for the construction too.
> 
> It was a bit more reactive with the OOTB edge somehow, but even there it surprised me. I really thought the sharpening at last (with no etching, polishing or any other treatment) would start this thing going crazy patina. Still waiting...
> 
> The whole blade does have much more of a final polishing job done than most iron clad I experienced. And I don't mean stones, but rather belt and compound or something. Patterns of the handmade finish is unmistakable and rather "coarse", but texture there was about none with mine. It feels as smooth and looks as mirror-shiny as what I would get out of P3000 sandpaper finishing and some buffing with metal compound. Scratches from the bevelling on stones are coarse on the core steel, yet the core has quite the mirror shine and smooth texture. Makes me think of work on rather coarse or med-coarse stones for bevelling going directly to a high polish without much stone work done in progression to blend the scratches.
> 
> Both you guys have the Migaki right?


Yup, migaki new triangle profile. My KU nakiri turns horrible colors. I wonder how that one’s going to come back from loan.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Mazaki Hon-Sanmai Blue Super (Aogami Super) Gyuto 210mm with Snakewood Handle


Mazaki Sanjo by Naoki Mazaki - top quality Japanese chefs knfie - Knives and Stones




www.knivesandstones.com.au





There’s a 210 AS posted by KnS which is already sold out. I wonder what the price was.


----------



## Tanalasta

Not cheap I suspect ; given the 240mm was $700US


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

I think it's 1049 AUD or 784 USD.


----------



## Tanalasta

Less 10% as US buyers don't pay the Australian Goods and Services Tax.

I know how much the 240mm hon-sanmai blue was. I posted a photo of it a few posts up. Perhaps 15-20% of the cost may have gone towards the handle as a gut feel from what I've been charged for past K&S handles.


----------



## Vdark

_Mazaki Hon_-_Sanmai Blue Super_ (_Aogami Super_) _Gyuto 210mm_ with _Snakewood Handle_. Regular _price_: $1,049.00 (ex. GST): $1,153.90 (incl. GST). 

I think that 1049 is already excluding the GST.


----------



## EricEricEric

Wow! 66+ 



Hz_zzzzzz said:


> Mazaki Hon-Sanmai Blue Super (Aogami Super) Gyuto 210mm with Snakewood Handle
> 
> 
> Mazaki Sanjo by Naoki Mazaki - top quality Japanese chefs knfie - Knives and Stones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.knivesandstones.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There’s a 210 AS posted by KnS which is already sold out. I wonder what the price was.


----------



## zizirex

So that means TF Denka definitely worth it then.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

zizirex said:


> So that means TF Denka definitely worth it then.


It's hard to compare TF and Mazaki in terms of pricing. On the up side (for TF), TF is probably the only major maker who welds carbon core in between stainless clad in house. Most other makers do it with iron clad which is much easier as far as I know, or they use prelam stock. On the down side, the current generation TF no longer do anything in the knife making process. TF is a small factory while Mazaki does everything on his own.


----------



## Giovanny Torres

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> It's hard to compare TF and Mazaki in terms of pricing. On the up side (for TF), TF is probably the only major maker who welds carbon core in between stainless clad in house. Most other makers do it with iron clad which is much easier as far as I know, or they use prelam stock. On the down side, the current generation TF no longer do anything in the knife making process. TF is a small factory while Mazaki does everything on his own.


Doesn't Kisuke Manaka also do stainless clad welded by himself?


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

Giovanny Torres said:


> Doesn't Kisuke Manaka also do stainless clad welded by himself?


Sorry I'm only aware of his stainless clad ATS-34 (stainless core) knives and the recently released blue 1 in blue 2 + iron knives. Didn't know he also makes stainless clad carbon knives. But sure, they weld their stainless clad in house.


----------



## pkjames

EricEricEric said:


> Wow! 66+


Sukenari use to have a water quenched AS damascus line. At their factory Hanaki san showed me the HRC test result for their AS line and the HRC was even higher. 
The argument from Hanaki-san is that, as a blacksmith it is always his job to HT the steel to its maximum potential. However, by doing this, the failure rate as also prohibitively high: we are talking about 50%+ failure rate. Eventually he had to discontinue the line. 
I suspect Mazaki is also experimenting with different steels and I doubt the AS output will be half decent.


----------



## jedy617

pkjames said:


> Sukenari use to have a water quenched AS damascus line. At their factory Hanaki san showed me the HRC test result for their AS line and the HRC was even higher.
> The argument from Hanaki-san is that, as a blacksmith it is always his job to HT the steel to its maximum potential. However, by doing this, the failure rate as also prohibitively high: we are talking about 50%+ failure rate. Eventually he had to discontinue the line.
> I suspect Mazaki is also experimenting with different steels and I doubt the AS output will be half decent.


I'd love to have one of those older dama sukenari AS. Never seen one for sale though...must not have been too many of them made


----------



## Jville

EricEricEric said:


> Wow! 66+


I guess we shouldn’t be too surprised his blue is very hard, heck even his white is hard.


----------



## GorillaGrunt

I bet AS from Mazaki is like a lightsaber made of depleted uranium that can brunoise other knives without chipping and makes your teeth whiter every time you use it. Which one of you guys has it, there’s no way someone not on this forum got it?


----------



## tcmx3

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> *It's hard to compare TF and Mazaki in terms of pricing. O*n the up side (for TF), TF is probably the only major maker who welds carbon core in between stainless clad in house. Most other makers do it with iron clad which is much easier as far as I know, or they use prelam stock. On the down side, the current generation TF no longer do anything in the knife making process. TF is a small factory while Mazaki does everything on his own.



Mazaki consistent grind inconsistent profile
TF consistent profile inconsistent grind

take your pick which you think is a better deal when talking about the AS lines. 

anyway for me I think Mazaki's sweet spot is his basic white 2 240 KU gyuto, one of the absolute best knives Ive ever used after a polish. TF's is the nashiji petty. If I want to spend up I have different preferences.

it's worth pointing out that Mazaki has immense experience with white 2 and some of these blue steels he's doing in fewer numbers. I think some folks are happy to pay for experiments, hey sometimes so am I! Id be more keen on 26c3 than AS though.


----------



## EricEricEric

It’s true!

Do you have any information on the HRC for his honyaki? 



Jville said:


> I guess we shouldn’t be too surprised his blue is very hard, heck even his white is hard.


----------



## Jville

EricEricEric said:


> It’s true!
> 
> Do you have any information on the HRC for his honyaki?


No but didn't someone on here get one?


----------



## M1k3

tcmx3 said:


> Mazaki consistent grind inconsistent profile
> TF consistent profile and inconsistent grind


You forgot about the overgrinds with TF.


----------



## Matt Jacobs

I went to Portland Knife House yesterday to check out the new profiles. It was a mixed bag for me. The 240 I really liked but man was it a beast. I owned an older bullnose 240 that seemed much lighter than this. I then picked up a 210 which is my preferred size and I hated it. The blade is so small towards the tip there was not really any forward weight which I love on my older Mazaki's. It looks great for shallot and onion but was more like a 210 petty than a Gyuto. I also have a 180 Nakiri heading my way tomorrow from SharpKnifeShop but I dont think the profiles have changed much on those. I was ready to pull the trigger on the 210 Gyuto but I am glad I didnt. I look forward to seeing his next profile change.


----------



## Matt Jacobs

My Nakiri showed up today from Sharp knife shop 180mm with the walnut ferule. I was definitely happy with Sharp Knife Shop. They had the best pricing I found and I got a 10% discount for my first purchase plus shipping was free and got here in a few days. The only downside is that the knife is not very sharp. I dont mind since I will sharpen but my other 2 Mazakis came from Portland Knife House and they were screaming sharp.
I am very happy so far and I think I will love the 180 vs the 165 Nakiris I have owned in the past


----------



## Tanalasta

Would be interested in how the blue super and blue 2 compare with each other and with the honyaki or vanilla white blade. 

Though I’ll readily admit I use my Wusthof or Toyama more …


----------



## Corradobrit1

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> the current generation TF no longer do anything in the knife making process. TF is a small factory while Mazaki does everything on his own.


Not entirely true. TF V works in the 'factory'. He's one of about 5 people working there, some part-time, some full-time. Its more of a cottage industry rather than a factory, which suggests mass production.


----------



## tchan001

Seems they are taking orders for this. I asked the price and was told it is around USD2000 with production time unknown. I captured the shot below from their IG story.


----------



## WiriWiri

tchan001 said:


> Seems they are taking orders for this. I asked the price and was told it is around USD2000 with production time unknown. I captured the shot below from their IG story.
> View attachment 147310




That almost strikes me as a bargain compared to this Mazaki damascus santoku for a mere $1200+. For that price you even get the ‘acclaimed’ walnut ferrule handle version and a special new Maz kanji*

Actually it’s a bunka, so that’s ok then. Phew.


*I believe this kanji loosely translates as ‘Jump the Shark’)


----------



## RockyBasel

WiriWiri said:


> That almost strikes me as a bargain compared to this Mazaki damascus santoku for a mere $1200+. For that price you even get the ‘acclaimed’ walnut ferrule handle version and a special new Maz kanji*
> 
> Actually it’s a bunka, so that’s ok then. Phew.
> 
> 
> *I believe this kanji loosely translates as ‘Jump the Shark’)
> View attachment 147317


It’s getting a little wacky


----------



## FishmanDE

tchan001 said:


> Seems they are taking orders for this. I asked the price and was told it is around USD2000 with production time unknown. I captured the shot below from their IG story.
> View attachment 147310




Goodbye triangle of death; Hello rectangle of life! 

Calling it now, his next big drop will be a $3k pizza cutter


----------



## tcmx3

really hope Mazaki himself is making money off his knife celebrity status and it's not just people grifting off him.


----------



## preizzo

tcmx3 said:


> really hope Mazaki himself is making money off his knife celebrity status and it's not just people grifting off him.


I am 200 percent sure that mazaki is not making that much of a profit.


----------



## preizzo

Japanese Chef Knife Mazaki Naoki Honsanmai Blue2 Black Chinese Cleaver 210mm(IF_ | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Japanese Chef Knife Mazaki Naoki Honsanmai Blue2 Black Chinese Cleaver 210mm(IF_ at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


----------



## preizzo

Last of the mazaki Chinese clever is on eBay .
Vendor is selling also many different kurouchi mazaki .


----------



## EricEricEric

Everything is getting so rare now


----------



## tostadas

Cleaver looks cool, but not sure I'd pay that much for one.


----------



## Jville

preizzo said:


> Japanese Chef Knife Mazaki Naoki Honsanmai Blue2 Black Chinese Cleaver 210mm(IF_ | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Japanese Chef Knife Mazaki Naoki Honsanmai Blue2 Black Chinese Cleaver 210mm(IF_ at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


Have you bought from this company? I’m not familiar with them


----------



## tostadas

Jville said:


> Have you bought from this company? I’m not familiar with them


I have. They're legit. And ship really fast to US


----------



## Dull_Apex

Jville said:


> Have you bought from this company? I’m not familiar with them


I've bought from ebay and direct, both were exactly as shown (stones)


----------



## madmotts

Dull_Apex said:


> I've bought from ebay and direct, both were exactly as shown (stones)


How did you buy direct?


----------



## tostadas

madmotts said:


> How did you buy direct?








ikkyu-japanavenue.online - Japanese kitchen knife specialty shop


Specialty shop offering a curated selection of Japanese kitchen knives. We deal directly with the knife artist to bring you the very best Japanese kinife, whetstone and more!



ikkyu-japanavenue.online


----------



## preizzo

Jville said:


> Have you bought from this company? I’m not familiar with them


Yes .

Never had a single problem. Very fast shipping and very professional


----------



## madmotts

Well based on this thread, i jumped on the 240 KU ktip. I haven't seen one for sale or out of stock before.


----------



## Mikeadunne

madmotts said:


> Well based on this thread, i jumped on the 240 KU ktip. I haven't seen one for sale or out of stock before.


damn, now I wish you hadn't told me this


----------



## tcmx3

ikkyu is awesome if you understand their shtick. it's not the sort of place I would go to buy a 4 figure knife or stone personally, but to each their own. for something like a ku white 2 mazaki, yeah sure.

really fast shipping from Japan too. like really fast.


----------



## Pie

Went and felt up a couple KU triangle profile gyutos. They’re definitely lighter than they were before, and feel a bit less polished (duh) than the migaki version. Love the nashiji KU tho. Definitely had to peel myself away, lest I really start the “collecting” phase of the addiction.


----------



## TJ Watson

EEEP!

At 1300 Buckazoids, one imagines that this is a pretty Eldritch Cleaver....


----------



## spaceconvoy

tcmx3 said:


> ikkyu is awesome if you understand their shtick.


53 *Rare* Nakayama Karasu sold in the last 20 min 

I don't understand their shtick, and honestly it's turned me off from trying their stones. But I bought an Atoma from them for a nice price with fast shipping and would recommend them for off-the-shelf type stuff


----------



## madmotts

tcmx3 said:


> really fast shipping from Japan too. like really fast.



Crazy. 4 days end to end Osaka, Japan -> Seattle, WA. That's not to far off from what happens in the USA. One day processing, next day shipped and a few days in transit.


----------



## RevJoe

tcmx3 said:


> ikkyu is awesome if you understand their shtick. it's not the sort of place I would go to buy a 4 figure knife or stone personally, but to each their own. for something like a ku white 2 mazaki, yeah sure.
> 
> really fast shipping from Japan too. like really fast.


What's there shtick?


----------



## Orange Yolks

Just throwing out in here that I recently got the 135mm deba from Sharp and am very, very happy with it. It's not the most common size, but imho it is the best size deba. Plenty of tip, and heel is robust for breaking bones. Nice handle too fwiw.


----------



## Rameka

RevJoe said:


> What's there shtick?



I would also like to know this...I have had nothing but pleasant interactions with one of the reps there, Yasuko. He exchanged many emails with me over a period of 3-4 months answering all my questions, taking pics of various stones with slurry on them for me, etc. He never pressured me into a sale and seemed genuinely content to just chat with me about the products. In fact, when I eventually pulled the trigger on a stone through Ebay, he emailed me to ask if I would like to complete the transaction privately instead of through eBay, and offered me an 8% discount for doing so.
I've read mixed comments about Ikkyu, but no one really elaborates, so I'm legitimately not sure specifically what folks find sketchy or negative about them. I never see Ikkyu on people's "most trusted" lists so there must be something people find off about them.


----------



## madmotts

Not to get back on track… 240 ku triangles back in stock at Carbon.


----------



## Dull_Apex

Are we now approaching a year of triangles?


----------



## ModRQC

A year of triangles it may be... What about a year of crappy octagonals?


----------



## Mikeadunne

really hope both of these pass, I'm not sure which I like less...prob that handle


----------



## M1k3

Here's to hoping for SerbIan cleavers! @Isasmedjan 

#SerbIanMassdrop


----------



## Thpp9

I think it's about time grabbing a Mazaki for myself. Do you know if the 270mm version (KU or Migaki) is available somewhere in EU?I can find only 210 and 240, but I need a real big boy Cow sword lol

TIA!


----------



## madmotts

Kind of wondering- Mazakis wedge (or crack) hard product right? I have a couple of them and I have to somewhat muscle them through an apple and carrots (vertically) are dangerous. 

What's even more confusing is i have a pointy triangle migaki that's super thick and heavy (260g + 5.2mm over the heal). The new gen 240 pointy triangles are under 200g (source CKC). This one is on a weight loss program (thinning) that's never ending.


----------



## superworrier

madmotts said:


> Kind of wondering- Mazakis wedge (or crack) hard product right? I have a couple of them and I have to somewhat muscle them through an apple and carrots (vertically) are dangerous.
> 
> What's even more confusing is i have a pointy triangle migaki that's super thick and heavy (260g + 5.2mm over the heal). The new gen 240 pointy triangles are under 200g (source CKC). This one is on a weight loss program (thinning) that's never ending.


Did you take into account handle weight as well? The new ones are definitely lighter though, probably because they are pointier and have less height near the tip.


----------



## Cliff

I think he's making them thinner. Have a couple of older ones, a hefty 240 with a thin grind that doesn't wedge in anything except maybe tall squash and then a monster 270 that wedged until I gave it a good thinning.


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

madmotts said:


> Kind of wondering- Mazakis wedge (or crack) hard product right? I have a couple of them and I have to somewhat muscle them through an apple and carrots (vertically) are dangerous.
> 
> What's even more confusing is i have a pointy triangle migaki that's super thick and heavy (260g + 5.2mm over the heal). The new gen 240 pointy triangles are under 200g (source CKC). This one is on a weight loss program (thinning) that's never ending.


I think it depends on the batch. Left is a 2019 Yoshihiro Ku Mazaki and right is a 2020 KnS Migaki Mazaki. The 2019 one cuts carrots nicely but the 2020 one wedges badly. If yours is like the right one, yes I think it can benefit from some thinning.


----------



## madmotts

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think it depends on the batch. Left is a 2019 Yoshihiro Ku Mazaki and right is a 2020 KnS Migaki Mazaki. The 2019 one cuts carrots nicely but the 2020 one wedges badly. If yours is like the right one, yes I think it can benefit from some thinning.


yeah the right one looks familiar. so the thinning story continues... The migakis I have (and had) are fatter versions of the right. I have a KU is kind of in between.


----------



## Gregmega

I’ve had like 14 mazaki, and only one was weird. I will say that the early bullnose models were absolute fire.can’t believe I sold my backup. Oh well.


----------



## captaincaed

Mine was a beast. If I wasn‘t such a pansy about reactive iron cladding, I’d still be a happy man.


----------



## Alder26

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I think it depends on the batch. Left is a 2019 Yoshihiro Ku Mazaki and right is a 2020 KnS Migaki Mazaki. The 2019 one cuts carrots nicely but the 2020 one wedges badly. If yours is like the right one, yes I think it can benefit from some thinning.
> View attachment 161941



I have knives from these batches that mirror these almost exactly. I sent the 2020 to forty.knives and had him work some magic on it. Now it's my favorite!


----------



## tostadas

Looks like the new Yoshikanes took a page out of mazakis book for ugly handles













Yoshikane Kurouchi Tuschime Gyuto 240mm


Gyuto: A general-purpose knife that most chefs would say they could not do without. This knife is the Japanese knife makers answer to the western “chef knife”. Gyuto translates to “cow blade”. They are generally tall at the heel, flat throughout, and rounded toward the tip of the knife for rock...




thecooksedge.com


----------



## madmotts

tostadas said:


> Looks like the new Yoshikanes took a page out of mazakis book for ugly handles


Yeah and Add an end cap?


----------



## M1k3

tostadas said:


> Looks like the new Yoshikanes took a page out of mazakis book for ugly handles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yoshikane Kurouchi Tuschime Gyuto 240mm
> 
> 
> Gyuto: A general-purpose knife that most chefs would say they could not do without. This knife is the Japanese knife makers answer to the western “chef knife”. Gyuto translates to “cow blade”. They are generally tall at the heel, flat throughout, and rounded toward the tip of the knife for rock...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thecooksedge.com


At least it's not neon?


----------



## WiriWiri

I saw those Yoshis and mentally put the handles in the ’must feel better than they look‘ category, I wish I could charitably have thought the same about my Maz with blocky, walnut ferruled handle, but it really does feel like crap in hand too, In mitigation, balance is surprisingly decent and is mildly less offensive to the touch with many coats of oil

Surprised by how much of a premium Yoshi seem to be charging for stainless clad, unless prices for all of their ranges are going to jump up quickly. Or perhaps those end caps are particularly in demand atm…


----------



## daddy yo yo

Thpp9 said:


> I think it's about time grabbing a Mazaki for myself. Do you know if the 270mm version (KU or Migaki) is available somewhere in EU?I can find only 210 and 240, but I need a real big boy Cow sword lol
> 
> TIA!


PM sent!


----------



## cotedupy

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has got one of the pointy-triangle Mazs, what they think of it, and how they compare to previous...

The two I have are 2019-ish profiles (I think), and I love them - really excellent knives. Though both I did thin a bit to suit my tastes. 

210 Ku Gyuto & 150 Kas Petty:


----------



## Jville

@cotedupy you got that ku maz looking good.


----------



## cotedupy

Jville said:


> @cotedupy you got that ku maz looking good.



Ah cheers! It's one of my favourite and most used knives, so doesn't look quite as shiny as those pics most of the time. But it's fun to crack out some bevel polishing stones occasionally, and I'm certainly pretty happy with the handle I made .


----------



## capt4inslow

i've got a triangle suji in white 2, a "300mm" that's around 305 or so. this is my first mazaki so i have no idea how it compares to an old one.


----------



## daddy yo yo

cotedupy said:


> Ah cheers! It's one of my favourite and most used knives, so doesn't look quite as shiny as those pics most of the time. But it's fun to crack out some bevel polishing stones occasionally, and I'm certainly pretty happy with the handle I made .


I’d have a 270 for you…


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

cotedupy said:


> I'd be interested to hear if anyone has got one of the pointy-triangle Mazs, what they think of it, and how they compare to previous...
> 
> The two I have are 2019-ish profiles (I think), and I love them - really excellent knives. Though both I did thin a bit to suit my tastes.
> 
> 210 Ku Gyuto & 150 Kas Petty:
> 
> View attachment 186934
> 
> 
> View attachment 186930
> 
> 
> View attachment 186931
> 
> 
> View attachment 186932
> 
> 
> View attachment 186933


I got an aogami super this year. It’s actually very nice. I didn’t like the triangle profile before but changed my view after getting the Kamon massdrop knife. The profile of 225 Kamon MD is slightly less flat but still triangle-ish. After using it I got the Mazaki and didn’t get disappointed. It is actually very comfortable in use and makes a very thin tip.

Edit: forgot to mention I had 2 original profile Mazakis in the past and still prefer that profile because it looks so handsome, but the triangle profile is also nice to use.


----------



## KDSDeluxe

I have a 210mm migaki and a 240mm kurouchi triangle. Love both of them. And have also no compares to the old one.
But I heard in a german forum that the most peoples like more the older profiles...


----------



## daddy yo yo

I have a 270 for sale: EUR - WTS: Mazaki KU 270 wa-gyuto & 180 wa-petty


----------



## Jovidah

I have a pointy 270 suji and a pointy 240 gyuto. Never used an old Maz.
For a suji I think it's preferably anyway to have as straight a profile as possible. For a gyuto I don't really mind - but I have plenty of flatty knives and don't really rock with J-knives. I think it's one of those things that depends a lot on how you cut whether you like or hate it, but so far I have no complaints about it.


----------



## Pie

I have a migaki 240 pointy triangle. I love it. Could use some more thinning but it goes through product relatively easily for its weight and feel. The taper is nice. 

I’ve since cooled a little on the ultra flatness, but there’s a time and a place for it in common use. Bevels and shinogi may not come perfect, but the convex is nice. Unfortunately I don’t have an older generation to compare it to.


----------



## SirCutAlot

I think the triangle is good for starters, not the guys using rocking motion. Superb for push cut, and chopping.

What i don`t like on Maz knifes is the edge retention, it feels like 55 HRC. I love the looks of the KU, taper at the old models etc. the only one really good i had from him was a KU Yanagiba. TThe other good i only sharpened and it was an 1,5k modell with "handmade" damascus clad .

SirCutALot


----------



## Jovidah

SirCutAlot said:


> I think the triangle is good for starters, not the guys using rocking motion. Superb for push cut, and chopping.
> 
> What i don`t like on Maz knifes is the edge retention, it feels like 55 HRC. I love the looks of the KU, taper at the old models etc. the only one really good i had from him was a KU Yanagiba. TThe other good i only sharpened and it was an 1,5k modell with "handmade" damascus clad .
> 
> SirCutALot


White steel + rockchop = meh retention. Push cutting isn't just for starters... nor is there anything 'pro' about rockchopping; it's easy as pie.
I think most people here actually go in reverse; they start rockchopping and then go to push or pull cuts later.


----------



## SirCutAlot

Jovidah said:


> White steel + rockchop = meh retention. Push cutting isn't just for starters... nor is there anything 'pro' about rockchopping; it's easy as pie.
> I think most people here actually go in reverse; they start rockchopping and then go to push or pull cuts later.


Yep this might be my problem . But i like white steel a lot, just don`t rock chop any more and do only the pricey slices at in service. 
This was not my intention, i just want to say that any other white steel is better then Mazaki, and of coarse Kato (WH what a baaaad edge retention, like Kiwi Brand) .... 

Jiro does it quite well, as Munetoshi and Y.Tanaka. So i like the steel, and i know what is it is for.. So no Gyuto work . Slicing yes sir that is what this steel is meant for. 

SirCutALot.


----------



## kpham12

SirCutAlot said:


> Yep this might be my problem . But i like white steel a lot, just don`t rock chop any more and do only the pricey slices at in service.
> This was not my intention, i just want to say that any other white steel is better then Mazaki, and of coarse Kato (WH what a baaaad edge retention, like Kiwi Brand) ....
> 
> Jiro does it quite well, as Munetoshi and Y.Tanaka. So i like the steel, and i know what is it is for.. So no Gyuto work . Slicing yes sir that is what this steel is meant for.
> 
> SirCutALot.


Have you tried more than one Mazaki? I always read about relatively big variance in heat treat among Mazaki. Some people swear edge retention is great for use in a pro kitchen (for white 2) and some people say edge retention is only so-so. 

Also, agree Munetoshi works nicely, even with heavy use.


----------



## SirCutAlot

I tryed some.

I think at least 10 gyutos, starting with the JNS era, in 240-270 lenght. I was never satisfied. and it is not the steel for sure. But dawn i liked the taper, the profile and the feeling. Just not good enough for pro use in my honest opinion. 

Beneath the gyuots i had some pettys, deba and sujihikis, but they all got presents for my aprentices. 

SirCutALot


----------



## superworrier

I like the triangle. I think it’s very functional and most of the hate is probably because its pretty ugly. 

I find the edge retention good.


----------



## M1k3

Ikkyu carries Mazaki Gyutos without handles for those looking.


----------



## cotedupy

Jovidah said:


> For a suji I think it's preferably anyway to have as straight a profile as possible.



I was going to say this as soon as I saw @capt4inslow 's picture above. That Suji profile looks pretty much ideal, and not at all weird.




SirCutAlot said:


> I think the triangle is good for starters, not the guys using rocking motion. Superb for push cut, and chopping



This was actually what got me wondering about them. I don't rock chop ever, so I imagine the triangle versions would suit me just fine in use.




superworrier said:


> I think it’s very functional and most of the hate is probably because its pretty ugly.



This probably hits the nail squarely on the head I think. I'm sure they're at least as functional as mine above, but yeah I'm with the majority consensus - I don't think they look very nice at all.

---

What do people think about the grinds? Has he thinned them out a bit to match the 'sleeker' profile?

Both of mine had very heavily convexed bevels and were, what I would consider, too fat behind the edge. I like the thick spine and distal taper, and I quite enjoy tinkering and thinning a bit to get something exactly where I want, so was no problem for me. But for someone less confident on that I could definitely see it being annoying, particularly on the petty.


----------



## cotedupy

KDSDeluxe said:


> I have a 210mm migaki and a 240mm kurouchi triangle. Love both of them. And have also no compares to the old one.
> But I heard in a german forum that the most peoples like more the older profiles...
> 
> View attachment 186944




Loving the dark wood / blonde horn combi, works well on these knives I think .

My petty handle above was the first rehandling I did for a 'smart' knife back in the day, and still looks pretty swish I think. The result of a lot of good advice and encouragement from our feline friend @Carl Kotte.


----------



## capt4inslow

@cotedupy the grind on my suji is pretty good, it probably helps that it's an enormous knife but i've chopped through some onions and other basic garnish-type produce and never felt that the grind got in the way.


----------



## KDSDeluxe

cotedupy said:


> Loving the dark wood / blonde horn combi, works well on these knives I think .
> 
> My petty handle above was the first rehandling I did for a 'smart' knife back in the day, and still looks pretty swish I think. The result of a lot of good advice and encouragement from our feline friend @Carl Kotte.


The Kurouchi was my first japanese knife. The profile is really good for push and chopping.

I agree. The edge retention is not so good in my opinion. But ideal for home cooking and people who like to sharpen ok.

Your handles looking awesome.


----------



## superworrier

I find the edge retention good for white 2. 

The KU 210 triangle I had had a pretty thin grind The 225 honsanmai blue 2 has definitely a more convex WH grind


----------



## KDSDeluxe

if i compare the white 2 with the kaeru workhorse, the mazaki falls a way behind. I already thought that the kaeru has a different steel...

My 210mm has a workhorse grind and the 240mm is more fragile.


----------



## NotAddictedYet

cotedupy said:


> I'd be interested to hear if anyone has got one of the pointy-triangle Mazs, what they think of it, and how they compare to previous...


I have the 2021 profile triangle Mazaki KU 240. I like it. It's on the heavier side but retains a nice balance in hand. Thick at the spine for pinch grip. It's got a huge flat spot for push cutters like me. Combined with the heft it's just goes up down up down up down.

I do think it might be a little bit too pointy. I do use a little bit of rocky motion to make sure I don't get accordion cuts. With the pointy and low tip, I am always a little afraid of the tip digging into the board. It's probably purely psychological but it does make me mindful of the way I use the knife instead of it being automatic. Some extra height and curvier profile might solve this "problem". But generally I like how it cuts and is a fan of the look.


----------



## budgingllama

Hz_zzzzzz said:


> I got an aogami super this year. It’s actually very nice. I didn’t like the triangle profile before but changed my view after getting the Kamon massdrop knife. The profile of 225 Kamon MD is slightly less flat but still triangle-ish. After using it I got the Mazaki and didn’t get disappointed. It is actually very comfortable in use and makes a very thin tip.
> 
> Edit: forgot to mention I had 2 original profile Mazakis in the past and still prefer that profile because it looks so handsome, but the triangle profile is also nice to use.



What’s your thoughts on the AS. Would love to grab one myself


----------



## Hz_zzzzzz

budgingllama said:


> What’s your thoughts on the AS. Would love to grab one myself


The grind especially the distal taper are very good. Comfortable and natural to hold and cut with. Overall a good feeling tool. I really appreciate strong distal taper like on Katos or vintage Sabs and it is where Mazaki wins. The fit and finish is just typical Mazaki.

Regarding the steel, it’s relatively easy to get super sharp (not the easiest but easier than many AS I’ve tried). But the edge retention is just average for AS steels I’ve tried and noticeably not as strong as Denka’s and Moritaka’s.

In my experience the Mazaki white 2’s edge retention on my 2019 yoshihiro Ku version was actually decent for white 2. White 2 all suck at edge retention but the Maz was comparable to Munetoshi and Wakui in my experience.


----------



## Cliff

He cranks out so many, I think the grinds have always been a bit variable. I have an older JNS with a wonderful grind, one of the best I've ever gotten. Then I got one from KnS that has a great profile but came fat behind the edge. For both, retention has been quite good.


----------



## cotedupy

I was a little surprised to read people's comments about edge retention here, as I'd always thought it pretty reasonable, so decided to do a test this week with my Shiro 2 gyuto.

What will come as a surprise to no one is that I am _not _a professional chef. I am not hacking up 20kg of pumpkin at a time &c. But 5 or so days of reasonable home use; and it's still going through kitchen roll well enough after stropping on a sleeve. Which I'd call pretty good.

The only knives I have which I think have noticeably better edge retention are both from Aogami Super (Blenheim Forge Funayuki and Shibata Tinker Tank).


----------



## bahamaroot

My Mazaki and Wakui in Shiro 2 have good edge retention, no complaints. The Shiro 2 in my KS(circa 2013) sucks, I all but quit using it years ago. My Shiro 2 monosteel Konosuke's aren't much better than the KS.


----------



## Cliff

Interesting to see the range of responses. My Mazaki's feel quite hard and hold the edge very well for white steel. To be honest, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between it and my B2 Wats blindfolded. I have a newer vintage KS, which is not quite as hard but holds fine. None of them holds anything like my Denka, or R2 knives, but more than long enough for me as a home cook.


----------



## Matt Jacobs

I think they hold a useable edge very well although that certainly has a lot to do with the grind. What I find is that they and most white steel lose there toothiness very quickly. Things like paper towel, potato, herbs this is just fine for. I notice it losing bite on things like tomato or pepper skins very quickly.


----------



## Cliff

I've never put one to that kind of test. That would be a worthy experiment to try Mazaki vs. Watoyama, esp. tomato


----------



## nakiriknaifuwaifu

The Shiro 2 in my 2020 Maz Nashiji KU was taken relatively hard and it was a pleasure to sharpen, deburred without fuss and took a great edge. While it made a great daily driver, it did lose its tooth when slammed through a case or two of tomatoes or bellpeppers. With regards to WaToyama Ao 2, the Ao holds on to its tooth a bit longer, but that time is measured in days. It's also not as nice to sharpen and doesn't get as keen by a slim margin. I sharpened both once a week and felt that was sufficient. Neither steel is in the same league as Denka AS with regards to edge retention. Anyway moral of the story is buy a TF


----------



## RevJoe

Been six months since I sharpened mine. I did notice my short maz petty I have is in need the other day. And I use it a lot but I am home cook. For me that's good.


----------



## cotedupy

Matt Jacobs said:


> I think they hold a useable edge very well although that certainly has a lot to do with the grind. What I find is that they and most white steel lose there toothiness very quickly. Things like paper towel, potato, herbs this is just fine for. I notice it losing bite on things like tomato or pepper skins very quickly.




This is an astute observation I think...

Going back to it; while the Maz Shiro2 has held 'sharpness' very well in some ways, it doesn't seem to quite retain the teeth and aggression that my AS knives do.

Aogami 2 and Super are certainly my favourite steels, and I don't find them any more difficult to sharpen than white. If anything actually the opposite - they're the easiest for me to get very good edges on.


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## preizzo

cotedupy said:


> This is an astute observation I think...
> 
> Going back to it; while the Maz Shiro2 has held 'sharpness' very well in some ways, it doesn't seem to quite retain the teeth and aggression that my AS knives do.
> 
> Aogami 2 and Super are certainly my favourite steels, and I don't find them any more difficult to sharpen than white. If anything actually the opposite - I they're the easiest for me to get very good edges on.


The mazaki aogami 1 and shirogami 1 are his best


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## Cliff

cotedupy said:


> This is an astute observation I think...
> 
> Going back to it; while the Maz Shiro2 has held 'sharpness' very well in some ways, it doesn't seem to quite retain the teeth and aggression that my AS knives do.
> 
> Aogami 2 and Super are certainly my favourite steels, and I don't find them any more difficult to sharpen than white. If anything actually the opposite - they're the easiest for me to get very good edges on.


I agree with this. Mazaki holds about as well as any other white no. 2 I've tried. I really like the combination of retention-toughness-ease of sharpening. It doesn't feel as brittle as most AS. My AS blades keep an aggressive edge but tend not to feel as solid, even at lesser hardness (esp. from Echiezen). TF is an outlier here. I don't know how he gets such hard AS to feel so solid. I can't really tell a huge difference between regular white and blue no. 2 steels, comparing Mazaki to Watoyama. Yes, retention and toothiness is a bit better for the latter, but not all that much; and I don't think I am able to get Mazaki noticeably keener than Wat or Toyama. Maybe it gets there just a touch faster, but, even then, I'm not good enough to be able to tell.

If I were going to keep a dedicated tomato/pepper knife, it would be in R2. I find SKD/SLD holds a toothy edge well, too.

White no. 2, AEBL, and G3 seem to me to get really keen but not hold the toothiness as well -- all else equal.


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## yanyy

Corradobrit1 said:


> I think the comment is influenced by Mazaki's Sensei, Kato. Kato Ku commands more on the secondary market. Supply and demand thing.
> 
> But I did read somewhere that there was more work involved to get a proper genuine forge formed Kurouchi. Its not as simple as skipping the blade face grinding stage. TF refers to it as requiring multiple rounds of 'pickling' at low temp leading to their signature smooth satin finish on the Denka. There is also a matt Ku finish on their soft iron clad blades eg Morihei Hisamoto, which seems to have about the same durability with a little more drag. I can also see more work in the forging process as the maker can't grind away metal to get the desired distal taper and geometry.


I'm very curious about how kato's knife is oxidized black, using bluing solutions will get an all black oxide layer, but his kitchen knife has a lot of oxide layer peeling off


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## RockyBasel

Is Mazaki a slow imploding knife maker or is he going strong? From the “normal” initial WH profiles to kind of flat ones, to $2,500K Damascus knives - some of which people returned because of quality - is he still a fan favorite?

Wonder if he has lost his path

I have one of his earlier blue 1’s - fabulous. But since then, would not buy his knives today

Am I mistaken about him?


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## kpham12

I don’t know if he’s “imploding” or lost his path, I’m just waiting for him to switch up from the triangle profile. It’s very functional, but it’s too light and skinny towards the front, lacks authority while cutting. 

One of the reasons he had so much hype was because he used to come out with a new profile every few months and people were buying 3 or 4 just to try out, but he’s been sticking with the triangle for a while now, maybe the longest of any profile. The generation before the triangles was really nice and weighty, the super thin Yoshihiro ones were fantastic cutters and the older bullnose profiles are beloved, I saw one pop up on BST a couple weeks ago and it went really quickly.

Plus, most people who want a Maz probably already have one they’re happy with so this thread isn’t nearly as active as it used to be. In terms of being a “fan favorite”, I’m sure if you put out a survey, tons of members would report as still having a Mazaki in their rotation. He’s still the only maker I can think of that makes a knife with a spine 5-7 mm thick out of the handle with continuous taper, nicely thin BTE grind and a pretty hard heat treat that you can pick up starting at under $300 for a 240 mm gyuto.

If he comes out with blue 1/blue 2 in a different profile, non-damascus, I’d love to pick one up. And if he finally made another Ginsan batch, they would sell out instantly. I actually just picked up an older profile Maz because I sold my old one a while back and it left a Mazaki shaped hole in my heart.


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## Matt Jacobs

kpham, really great points. "lacks authority while cutting" is exactly the reason I havent picked up another one. I loved my first gens and wish I hadnt sold them. That and I HATE the patina that his iron takes on. Also the only knives I have owned that rusted in short storage or while on my storage rack. I wish he would do stainless clad on his white.


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## RockyBasel

Second that motion @kpham12, really good points and could not agree more your perspective.

The DT on the earlier knives was insane and a joy to work with. I sold my iron clad KU, but kept a Kasumi Blue 1 WH - which is stellar

The triangle does not appeal


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## preizzo

Matt Jacobs said:


> kpham, really great points. "lacks authority while cutting" is exactly the reason I havent picked up another one. I loved my first gens and wish I hadnt sold them. That and I HATE the patina that his iron takes on. Also the only knives I have owned that rusted in short storage or while on my storage rack. I wish he would do stainless clad on his white.


He does stainless clad with shirogami


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## Matt Jacobs

preizzo said:


> He does stainless clad with shirogami


Thank you, I remember seeing them now from Razor Sharp and once (I think on here) doest seem to be standard for him though.


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## preizzo

Matt Jacobs said:


> Thank you, I remember seeing them now from Razor Sharp and once (I think on here) doest seem to be standard for him though.


You can order directly from him


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## silylanjie

preizzo said:


> You can order directly from him


Please share how to order directly from him?


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## Corradobrit1

RockyBasel said:


> Is Mazaki a slow imploding knife maker or is he going strong? From the “normal” initial WH profiles to kind of flat ones, to $2,500K Damascus knives - some of which people returned because of quality - is he still a fan favorite?
> 
> Wonder if he has lost his path
> 
> I have one of his earlier blue 1’s - fabulous. But since then, would not buy his knives today
> 
> Am I mistaken about him?


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## EricEricEric

He makes amazing knives


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## RockyBasel

Mazaki’s dead, long love mazaki!


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## Gregmega

preizzo said:


> You can order directly from him


Let’s do a special order buddy, something weird and get a few dudes in.


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## jedy617

Who is in for aogami super honyaki?


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## Corradobrit1




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## Gregmega

666TNT, Mazaki X Satan, but make it honyaki


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## Jovidah

I think a few things play a role:
-Hype is always a bit temporary....in the past the forum had phases for plenty of other knife makers... usually they tend to fade mostly because anyone who cares about it has one (or more); the cheaper a knife the faster it happens because it's less cost-prohibitive.
-I think some editions didn't necessarily implode on him, but did hurt enthusiasm: the honyakis and damascus were ludicrously overpriced, the triangle gyutos were not everyone's cup of tea, and then on top of that a lot of those triangles (and some of the expensive knives too) came with those crappy walnut bolster handle that pretty much no one liked. 

Personally I think the hate for the triangle profile is a bit overblown; I actually prefer it over for example the Yoshikane - although admittedly their profiles are also somewhat divisive. It's a bit too heavy and tall for my taste - but that's more of an indication that I'm simply not a workhorse guy. And I'm simply not a fan of the iron cladding; I have the same dislike about my Y. Tanaka... but again that's a personal preference. However for the price you get a very well-finished great looking knife, with excellent F&F, a fat spine above the heel that makes just about any knife blush, and a really really nice distal taper.
If he made them in blue or blue super... with less reactive cladding... I don't think people would care about TF anymore.


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## M1k3

jedy617 said:


> Who is in for aogami super honyaki?


I want an old school bull nose Maz but in Rex 121.


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## ethompson

Apex Ultra at 67+ clad in wrought Damascus with a nashiji KU finish plz. 2019 Profile. 

Jokes aside, my 270 gyuto is still an absolute stunner on the board and just has such a reassuring heft and feel. Love that blade.


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## Thpp9

I am not sure if that's the 2019 profile but I definitely prefer it over the triangle one. It was bought from a fellow member here on 2020 from CKC and purchased it second hand from him a couple months ago. I really love it, one of my favourite knives.

Mazaki 270 KU: 






Here is a comparison with a 240 triangle:


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## bahamaroot

I have a 2018 version that still gets used almost daily, love that knife. His Blue and Damascus stuff is crazy overpriced and I hate the triangle stuff.


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## RevJoe

Yeah I would say it's more distal/bull nose to it. So do the ones I have. 


Thpp9 said:


> I am not sure if that's the 2019 profile but I definitely prefer it over the triangle one. It was bought from a fellow member here on 2020 from CKC and purchased it second hand from him a couple months ago. I really love it, one of my favourite knives.
> 
> Mazaki 270 KU:
> 
> View attachment 199797
> 
> 
> Here is a comparison with a 240 triangle:
> 
> View attachment 199798


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## bahamaroot

2018
Mazaki at his best.


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## jonnachang

bahamaroot said:


> 2018
> Mazaki at his best.


2019 wasn’t bad either.


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## rmrf

Jovidah said:


> Personally I think the hate for the triangle profile is a bit overblown; I actually prefer it over for example the Yoshikane - although admittedly their profiles are also somewhat divisive. It's a bit too heavy and tall for my taste - but that's more of an indication that I'm simply not a workhorse guy. And I'm simply not a fan of the iron cladding; I have the same dislike about my Y. Tanaka... but again that's a personal preference. However for the price you get a very well-finished great looking knife, with excellent F&F, a fat spine above the heel that makes just about any knife blush, and a really really nice distal taper.
> If he made them in blue or blue super... with less reactive cladding... I don't think people would care about TF anymore.


I agree that the hate for the triangle is overblown. It took a month or so to adapt, but once I did it became my favorite. My JNS mazaki just sits in a box now. However, I'm also a fan of Yoshikane so ymmv. What I love most about mazaki is the distal taper. 

I would love if he made knives SS clad or in something less reactive. Thats my biggest pet peeve with mazaki and why I keep a yoshikane and a blazen around.


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## Gregmega

Jovidah said:


> I think a few things play a role:
> -Hype is always a bit temporary....in the past the forum had phases for plenty of other knife makers... usually they tend to fade mostly because anyone who cares about it has one (or more); the cheaper a knife the faster it happens because it's less cost-prohibitive.
> -I think some editions didn't necessarily implode on him, but did hurt enthusiasm: the honyakis and damascus were ludicrously overpriced, the triangle gyutos were not everyone's cup of tea, and then on top of that a lot of those triangles (and some of the expensive knives too) came with those crappy walnut bolster handle that pretty much no one liked.
> 
> Personally I think the hate for the triangle profile is a bit overblown; I actually prefer it over for example the Yoshikane - although admittedly their profiles are also somewhat divisive. It's a bit too heavy and tall for my taste - but that's more of an indication that I'm simply not a workhorse guy. And I'm simply not a fan of the iron cladding; I have the same dislike about my Y. Tanaka... but again that's a personal preference. However for the price you get a very well-finished great looking knife, with excellent F&F, a fat spine above the heel that makes just about any knife blush, and a really really nice distal taper.
> If he made them in blue or blue super... with less reactive cladding... I don't think people would care about TF anymore.


I have 3 in blue (1&2) & one in blue super. All fine specimens. And every range from bullnose to triangle, but those early ones are still absolute fuego.


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## Jovidah

rmrf said:


> I agree that the hate for the triangle is overblown. It took a month or so to adapt, but once I did it became my favorite. My JNS mazaki just sits in a box now. However, I'm also a fan of Yoshikane so ymmv. What I love most about mazaki is the distal taper.
> 
> I would love if he made knives SS clad or in something less reactive. Thats my biggest pet peeve with mazaki and why I keep a yoshikane and a blazen around.


I quite like my Maz 270 suji. Nice and stiff; no flex when cutting denser stuff. It's from the triangle gen as well but I don't see how that could be a problem.

I'm with you on the reactivity; it's a bit too much for me. Not a problem on the suji but on the gyuto it's no bueno.


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## simona

RockyBasel said:


> Is Mazaki a slow imploding knife maker or is he going strong? From the “normal” initial WH profiles to kind of flat ones, to $2,500K Damascus knives - some of which people returned because of quality - is he still a fan favorite?
> 
> Wonder if he has lost his path
> 
> I have one of his earlier blue 1’s - fabulous. But since then, would not buy his knives today
> 
> Am I mistaken about him?


I bought 2 of his a few months ago - my first experience of his work. Very nice. Shiro #2, KU Nashi-ji finish. The nakiri is extremely well balanced, with a great edge - have not had to sharpen it yet. I only have 1 gyuto - which is his, and that has a light feel to it, fine profile and for a non-gyuto fan quite the revelation. On top of that I think the craftsmanship is superb. I will certainly buy more of his.


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## Tanalasta

Whilst I didn’t quite get the Hon-Sanmai knives Mazaki Hon-Sanmai Blue 2 Gyuto 210/ 225/ 240 mm, with K&S Heart-shaped Ebony Handle and Wenge Wood Saya 

Someone explain to me why these are that much more special than his regular line.

However, I do love the first Mazaki I ever bought. It’s super thin and the tip. And we don’t buy iron clad knives to hate patina. Perhaps I should have put a lighter handle on it.


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