# Stone recommendations for bevel contrast



## Dardeau (Feb 16, 2016)

I have a bit of seller's remorse for letting my red aoto go. It didn't create a perfect bevel, but it did do a damn fine one, really quickly, and with very little dishing that was easily controlled by sharpening on another spot on the stone.

I have tried all the synthetics that most people use for this, and a couple of them are very good, but have significant dishing and/or speed issues. 

Buying another red aoto is pretty much out of the question, as is finding a Hakka at less than an arm and a leg. I had a softer Shobu that did a nice bevel, maybe I'll bark up that tree. Any recommendations?


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## panda (Feb 16, 2016)

koppa sized hakkas are cheap, maxim has sold a few of those in the past, maybe BST?


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## chinacats (Feb 16, 2016)

A-Frames often has aoto (blue) for sale...I wound up buying a small one from Jon.


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## Dardeau (Feb 16, 2016)

I have a baby Hakka that is sub koppa, if it was a little bigger I would be set. Remember when Maxim was selling the Hakka he was calling Hakka Kan? I wanted to buy one and name it Rufus.


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## Dardeau (Feb 16, 2016)

He has one in stock now that I have been looking at.


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## ThEoRy (Feb 16, 2016)

Have you looked at the Gesshin jinzo aoto? https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-jinzo-aoto


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## Matus (Feb 17, 2016)

If smaller is OK than I would go with Tomo nagura from Maxim (which is supposed to be a Takashima). I have bought two of the small Hakka stones and glued them together 










Greg finished my Carter with finger stones from Tomo nagura, the finish is lovely:


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## XooMG (Feb 17, 2016)

Huh...I should have bought a second hakka stick and done the same. Mine is alright, but the width is a bit lacking.


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## ynot1985 (Feb 17, 2016)

Matus - that's ingenious.. Wish I had that foresight. I have a full size Hakka but your creation would have saved you heaps as compare to a proper size stone.. Hmm.. Now I might consider doing that to those small red aoto blocks Maksim has at the moment


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## krx927 (Feb 17, 2016)

ynot1985 said:


> Matus - that's ingenious.. Wish I had that foresight. I have a full size Hakka but your creation would have saved you heaps as compare to a proper size stone.. Hmm.. Now I might consider doing that to those small red aoto blocks Maksim has at the moment




Matus was kind enough to lend me his Hakka from pic above. I must say that the stone works perfectly considering that it is made out of 2 pieces.
Now I bought 2 small aotos from JNS and will do the same!


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## Dardeau (Feb 17, 2016)

I definitely don't have patience for finger stones. 
I have a Jinzo Aoto, and it provides the best finish of about any stone I have tried, but dishes pretty swiftly and is my only soaker.
The glue together is genius. If I can find another Hakka stick it is on!


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## Dardeau (Feb 17, 2016)

Also I drunk shopped Metal master and have a couple of options coming.


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## Asteger (Feb 17, 2016)

Dardeau said:


> I have a bit of seller's remorse for letting my red aoto go. It didn't create a perfect bevel, but it did do a damn fine one, really quickly, and with very little dishing that was easily controlled by sharpening on another spot on the stone...Buying another red aoto is pretty much out of the question, as is finding a Hakka at less than an arm and a leg. I had a softer Shobu that did a nice bevel, maybe I'll bark up that tree. Any recommendations?



The red aoto you had was surely coarser than a Hakka or Shobu, which I wouldn't look for a bevel from. Real ('blue') aoto can work in a similar range to the red aoto, but it's a little difficult to get any other natural stones in this area.


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## Dardeau (Feb 17, 2016)

The Shobu I had previously I also got from Metalmaster and it was pretty soft, as is the baby Hakka I still have. If this round at metal master fails, I'll do a round through A Frames


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## Dardeau (Feb 17, 2016)

The Shobu I sold actually did the closest I've seen to replicating the stock bevel finish on my Heiji. Did you ever get your Semi Stainless Ger?


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## Marcelo Amaral (Feb 17, 2016)

Asteger said:


> The red aoto you had was surely coarser than a Hakka or Shobu, which I wouldn't look for a bevel from. Real ('blue') aoto can work in a similar range to the red aoto, but it's a little difficult to get any other natural stones in this area.



lus1:

If you can find the right aoto (i imagine a softer one), you could get a reasonable kasumi finish. I never can get a perfect (like fingerstones) finish, but it's ok.


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## Asteger (Feb 17, 2016)

Dardeau said:


> The Shobu I sold actually did the closest I've seen to replicating the stock bevel finish on my Heiji. Did you ever get your Semi Stainless Ger?



You remember, Andre :biggrin: Yes and no. I have one coming to me in a trade, but hasn't arrived yet. Sometime next week, I think :thumbsup:

About Heiji, the carbon gyuto I have came with a practical and non-fancy finish, which was certainly either from an aoto or monzen: below a 'finisher' in fineness and pretty uniform along the curves, obviously from a more forgiving, not hard stone, but also streaky in a way stones like these are. The curious thing about it was that I know that Heiji finishes knives on Aiiwatani, but that my knife had more of a medium stone finish, not a bit finer like Aiiwatani would be. 

It didn't matter, though, because it couldn't be that that finish was meant to last. If ever a knife needed a true first sharpening (what is the Japanese term for this; forgot and it bugs me) it was that, as the edge was chippy and disintegrated immediately, and there was even a lamination problem at the tip. A normal sharpening after, and it was all fine and showing its class.

Yes, I look forward to trying the SS Heiji too.


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## panda (Feb 17, 2016)

Shouldn't monzen be good for this cause they're super muddy?


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## Asteger (Feb 17, 2016)

panda said:


> Shouldn't monzen be good for this cause they're super muddy?



Yup, good too. They're basically aoto again and from the same Tamba region aoto usually come from, and mine basically performs like 2 or 3 aoto I've had before, but is redder than any of them. One aoto I had that I remember was similar was an Okabana (knew this, even if we often don't know the aoto source). Okabana for example is an actual place where the mine must have been, while Monzen ('temple gate') is kind of a generic name and maybe was just given to a particular mine there for some reason; don't recall it also being a place name. Aka-Monzen just means red Monzen. 

One thing, though, is my Monzen does dish at rates that remind me of synth stones. I'm not used to this and it always seems like a hassle to lap/flatten. The one I have is also a bit streaky too so not completely uniform in its slurry, but I think works well on certain knives: not sleek Shigefusa for example, but suits stuff by Heiji.


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## Dardeau (Feb 17, 2016)

When this Shobu shows up next month I'll let you know if it is like the one I had before. I should have a Heiji suji showing up at the same time so I can side by side. I need to take my little Heiji out of the rotation and give it a spa treatment anyway, it's getting a little beat up.

Like I said, if the Shobu doesn't work I'll email AFrames and see if he has anything.


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## panda (Feb 17, 2016)

heiji suji sounds fun, i want to see pics and impressions when it arrives!


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## Matus (Feb 18, 2016)

ynot1985 said:


> Matus - that's ingenious.. Wish I had that foresight. I have a full size Hakka but your creation would have saved you heaps as compare to a proper size stone.. Hmm.. Now I might consider doing that to those small red aoto blocks Maksim has at the moment



Ha, I get that kind of reaction rarely. Just one advice. When I was gluing the stones on the bord I first glued them together (after the sides were ground as flat as possible of course) - it was pointed out to me later, than I did not have to glue the stones together at all (so there is no glue that will eventually appear on the sharpening surface), just clamp them together while they are being glued to the base and then cover the sides with lacquer and paper for stability. Still - when I was finishing (flattening the surface that is) this composite hakka after it was glued to the base it turned out that as the glue (in the center) would get it contact with the diamond plate, it would be 'thorn out' in little pieces (the glue is of course stronger the the stone) and so once the stone was flat, there would be no glue sticking out from between the stones.

Anyhow - this is still just a work-around idea which may or may not give you the resutls you desire. In particular when it comes to bevel finish I am not 100% sure yet whether there will be any detrimal effects. But in the time when stone prices are rising (and will keep doing so, apparently) this may be a solution.


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