# Anyplace where restaurants are doing well?



## GorillaGrunt (Oct 24, 2020)

Anyone live somewhere where restaurants are doing good business and pandemic restrictions aren’t stifling? I’m looking to either move or go on the road going to wherever isn’t locked down. Preferably where they’re hiring chefs/sous chefs, fine(r) dining preferred. Such a place might not exist but it’s worth the ask.


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## M1k3 (Oct 24, 2020)

Florida?


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## alterwisser (Oct 24, 2020)

New Zealand


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## WildBoar (Oct 24, 2020)

Some places in the DC area. Check out Bresca -- they are looking to hire more kitchen staff.


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## daveb (Oct 24, 2020)

Florida is coming out of lockdown and with DeSantis as Governor we're not likely to go back. In addition to the day job I do some part time on call catering (knife money!) and am as busy as I want to be.

The restaurants that went to a take out model early have for the most part made it but with staff reductions. Now they're starting to hire.

Good Luck!


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## pleue (Oct 24, 2020)

NZ immigration is really difficult right now, especially working holiday and its resources are geared toward the white collar support given the population size/labor pool or seasonal work for its big industries (wine). Are you looking to learn or make money?Vietnam and Taiwan would be on my list, maybe Malaysia or Singapore.


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## GorillaGrunt (Oct 24, 2020)

Money is not even on the board lol - I just signed a lease here in Milwaukee and I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to write off those funds. SE Asia sounds fun and educational if they'll let an American in (last I heard NZ won't?) I just want to be cheffing for real where people are going out and eating.


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## idemhj (Oct 24, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> New Zealand


And Denmark too, but that‘s probably not super relevant


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## LostHighway (Oct 24, 2020)

If you have any kind of reliable income stream in Milwaukee I would counsel patience for the next six months, the situation is unpredictable but likely to get worse before it gets better globally. Northern New England has been doing relatively well with respect to the virus and *might* be one of the earlier areas to recover but no guarantees. I can't speak for Vermont or New Hampshire but the Maine restaurant business is very seasonal and restaurant jobs even in non-covid years can be scarce this time of year, especially north of Cumberland County. The population centers of the West Coast might be another option but one for next spring more then now.
I don't think moving to NZ, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia, or Singapore are really viable options.


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## GorillaGrunt (Oct 24, 2020)

Nz is probably out but I'd do Florida if there's a low probability of the state shutting down. Restrictions in WI are onerous to the point where you can barely say I'm cooking or cheffing or restauranting at all -- and as of a couple weeks ago the population is scared enough that they're not going out regardless of the current legal status of the orders. So Thailand is a viable option for me, but it would be a big hassle that warrants more data gathering.


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## MarcelNL (Oct 24, 2020)

don't look at EU for now...second wave is hitting most countries


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## parbaked (Oct 24, 2020)

GorillaGrunt said:


> So Thailand is a viable option for me, but it would be a big hassle that warrants more data gathering.


My brother lives Thailand and used to own a bar there.
Problem with Thailand is that tourist industry has been zero for 7 months.
As such they need tourists not foreign labor. Not sure you could get a work visa.
Also visas are only going to folk from countries with no new cases for 30 days...

This guy provide useful info on Thailand.


https://www.youtube.com/c/RetiredWorkingForYou/featured


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## GorillaGrunt (Oct 24, 2020)

Yeah, I'm thinking US mostly because I doubt many countries are letting gringoes in


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## juice (Oct 24, 2020)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking US mostly because I doubt many countries are letting gringoes in


We're hardly letting Aussies back in, let alone anyone from countries that are basically pretending there isn't a virus (and there's a bunch).


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## valdim (Oct 24, 2020)

juice said:


> ... from countries that are basically pretending there isn't a virus (and there's a bunch).


Wasn't that a lil political, juice? I mean...nowadays?


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## M1k3 (Oct 24, 2020)

valdim said:


> Wasn't that a lil political, juice? I mean...nowadays?


No. Fact.


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## valdim (Oct 24, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> No. Fact.


True.


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## juice (Oct 24, 2020)

valdim said:


> Wasn't that a lil political, juice? I mean...nowadays?


As Mike said, it's just fact, but you're right, depends on which mod sees it...


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## big D (Oct 24, 2020)

Chicago here and things not looking good. Sounds like bars are going to be shut down again, and son is in fast food and just said that they supposedly going to shut down dining in restaurants again.


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## drsmp (Oct 24, 2020)

Pick just about any Red State that seems appealing as many are only mandating “personal responsibility” to control the pandemic. I’m in a north Atlanta suburb. Few restaurants went under as we only had about a 3week shutdown. Some seem to follow zero restrictions-seating every table and no masks for the servers. Most seat every other table and the servers wear masks. The Governor forbid the cities from passing any control measures stricter than the states - which are pretty lax considering our rather high infection rate.


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## GorillaGrunt (Oct 24, 2020)

juice said:


> We're hardly letting Aussies back in, let alone anyone from countries that are basically pretending there isn't a virus (and there's a bunch).



Not trying to take it political whatsoever, merely practical: that is where I want to cook.


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## AT5760 (Oct 24, 2020)

Portland, ME may be an option. A lot of great restaurants and the state has done pretty well handling COVID.


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## GorillaGrunt (Oct 24, 2020)

Thanks! Adding PortME to my research list! Keep em coming please!


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## Dc2123 (Oct 25, 2020)

I just landed a new job in Philly and have been looking for the past month or So.
Ive not only noticed more restaurants hiring, but Also these are restaurants “of worth” To work at.


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## Nagakin (Oct 28, 2020)

I know at least half a dozen people going to ski resorts, worth looking into. Especially since it's by season and things could change for better or worse by then.


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## GorillaGrunt (Oct 28, 2020)

Portland ME is too small. Philly is doing well? Good to hear! Indoor dining and all or is there a whole bunch of rigamarole?


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## NO ChoP! (Oct 31, 2020)

I'm from Milwaukee and have some contacts. I will PM.


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 3, 2020)

NZ think still be has more sheep than people. Beautiful country. They have to have strict policy. They are in part of the world where billions of people live.


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## JaVa (Feb 11, 2021)

How did work out for GorillaGrunt?


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## GorillaGrunt (Feb 11, 2021)

I wouldn’t call it political but “better” is an opinion I don’t agree with — I’d simply prefer to choose to be someplace where COVID-19 statistics aren’t a driving factor in government, business, or consumer decisions and behavior. Shoulda moved to Florida back in Oct - shrug

it also might be different if I lived somewhere where the government was doing more to directly help the individuals and businesses in the industries most affected by this whole thing; at least here in America, there has been nowhere near the level that you see in other countries. So the net effect is businesses going bankrupt or stopping operations long term, workers taking new jobs in different industries, while people and businesses in other industries are largely doing just fine or better than that - actual corporate earnings are up, personal savings rate is up... We’ll see what happens now.


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## GorillaGrunt (Feb 11, 2021)

JaVa said:


> How did work out for GorillaGrunt?



Didn’t go, should have gone.


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## JaVa (Feb 11, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Didn’t go, should have gone.


Bummer.

I got lucky.
Last spring when we got the first wind of the pandemic and our government started talking about limiting or shutting down restaurants, I knew we'd close for an undetermined period. Thinking of the best way to provide for the family, I called a buddy and we immediately went and bought a food truck (actually a trailer). Found one for cheap too.

Luckily Spring was starting so we were headed towards appropriate weather. The first day we opened we had 50 m line waiting and we sold out in 3 hours. Next day was the same story. Never expected that.
That's pretty much how we spent the summer and kept working all the way to Christmas. All the restaurants were closed for couple months, but people still wanted that service.

since our business works outside, we are aloud to keep working, even if other restaurants have been under different restrictions. It's been a crazy ride and most fun I've ever had in any kitchen.

Don't know how strict the restrictions are where you are, but if it's possible, get a buddy to buy or lease a truck with and go to town?


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## JaVa (Feb 11, 2021)

Edit. double post


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## Checkpure (Feb 11, 2021)

My friend who has food trucks is killing it. As others have said I'd look into that as a serious option come spring.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 11, 2021)

What food are you making on your food truck?
Eaten many a plate from lunch wagons in Hawaii. Have a good friend used to work with got into lunch wagons and has done well with it over the years.


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## tcmx3 (Feb 11, 2021)

Ive lived all over the states, including Florida.

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would willingly move to Florida unless it was to go to UF for a few years and bail (and Gainesville isn't nice, UF is just a really great school). Im sorry but before deciding how great it is to live somewhere like that where anyone can do anything they want, I suggest going to the Northern part of the state where all the beautiful lakes of my childhood have been drained to enable Orlando/Jacksonville folks having green lawns all year round or even worse for the sugar processors to destroy the similarly beautiful everglades. Like idc about who's in charge or running things or policy before you talk about how great it is go look at the place I grew up that's been visibly devastated and tell me you're ok with that because that right there is most Florida thing about Florida so you better like it.


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## JaVa (Feb 11, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> What food are you making on your food truck?
> Eaten many a plate from lunch wagons in Hawaii. Have a good friend used to work with got into lunch wagons and has done well with it over the years.


Well I live in Finland and funny that you asked cause...
Yeah, this is might be a bit underwhelming for you guys in the US and particularly in Florida area, but we serve food with a Miami and Latin influence. No one does it here except us.

The trucks called Happy Days Bros. The idea is to bring good vibes to people with food. The truck (trailer) is super super small with only a gas grill and a deep fryer and a fridge. Everything had to be planned to be able cope with just those.

Premium burgers have been rapidly growing in popularity for few years here so a good cheese burger was a no brainer. Happy Days Cheese burger is super simple, a local bakery makes us stunning brioche buns, Lime-chipottle mayo on the bottom, fresh high grade finnish 100% beef patty grilled to medium, covered with matured cheddar and a big pile of our version of chimihurri on top.

French fries are thick country style and served with a choice of self made porcini-parmesan salt or grilled bacon-rosmary salt .

Steak is called South Beach Churrasco. It's a choice of carne asada marinated and grilled skirt steak or flank steak. Served medium, sliced, with chimichurri, pickled chili and with fries of your choice.

Do The Funky Chicken was designed for kids, but it turns out adults love them too. It's chicken file bites covered with seasoned corn flour, whipped egg and crumbled nachos. that means they'r gluten free. Deep fried and served with fries and the lime-chipottle dip and goat cheese basil majo.

Desert is a basic New York cheese cake with roasted white chocolate, fresh strawberries and strawberry sauce.

Everything is home made and sourced thru small local businesses.

We're only open 2-4 days a week and we move around. We get asked a lot to come everywhere. Always rent free. Also companies are buying our service to company picnics and all sorts of orientation days. You know small-ish outside events with lots of room and scheduled service times. Been to birthdays and weddings. The possibilities have been endless. On a hot day roll out to a beach with cold drinks and burgers, what you think is going to happen?

The best part is people are always happy to see us and in a good mood just because someone is actually serving them food let alone well made food in these difficult times. It's been a blast. We are actually looking to expand with another truck and a restaurant next season that starts in about a month.

Sorry for the long post. It got away from me a bit.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 11, 2021)

Draconian policy in Florida gave no support to solar panels in the sunshine state.

In Hawaii they gave tax breaks for Solar & your extra energy put into the grid took care of nighttime use. Solar exploded as did solar panel companies. Hawaiian electric got caught with their pants down losing customer high electric rates. Just 14.00 a month to be connected to grid. 

Still tax breaks but no longer net metering so you don't get credit for extra energy that goes into grid. That slowed panels because you need batteries for storage. 

A large solar farm was built by private co. to sell power to Hi electric. HE wouldn't cooperate & ended up buying the company for themselves on the cheap.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 11, 2021)

Thanks JaVa I knew you were from Finland but forgot. Good burgers are popular everywhere.
Sounds like your having fun. Good for you 
making best of situation. 

Some restaurants here do food prep in their kitchens & hit the road in lunch wagons hours around 10am to 4pm. You still have basic two scoops rice, mac. salad. Curry stew, garlic shrimp, BBQ meat beef & pork, grilled chicken etc.

Now days you get restaurant grade food from wagons. 

My friend added bbq pork tacos to his fare they are a good seller. He makes that pork very tasty.


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## GorillaGrunt (Feb 12, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> Ive lived all over the states, including Florida.
> 
> I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would willingly move to Florida unless it was to go to UF for a few years and bail (and Gainesville isn't nice, UF is just a really great school). Im sorry but before deciding how great it is to live somewhere like that where anyone can do anything they want, I suggest going to the Northern part of the state where all the beautiful lakes of my childhood have been drained to enable Orlando/Jacksonville folks having green lawns all year round or even worse for the sugar processors to destroy the similarly beautiful everglades. Like idc about who's in charge or running things or policy before you talk about how great it is go look at the place I grew up that's been visibly devastated and tell me you're ok with that because that right there is most Florida thing about Florida so you better like it.



oh just specifically for this, to work as a chef while COVID stuff is still affecting the industry. I haven’t wanted to move there before and wouldn’t be committed to staying.


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## panda (Feb 12, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> Ive lived all over the states, including Florida.
> 
> I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would willingly move to Florida unless it was to go to UF for a few years and bail (and Gainesville isn't nice, UF is just a really great school). Im sorry but before deciding how great it is to live somewhere like that where anyone can do anything they want, I suggest going to the Northern part of the state where all the beautiful lakes of my childhood have been drained to enable Orlando/Jacksonville folks having green lawns all year round or even worse for the sugar processors to destroy the similarly beautiful everglades. Like idc about who's in charge or running things or policy before you talk about how great it is go look at the place I grew up that's been visibly devastated and tell me you're ok with that because that right there is most Florida thing about Florida so you better like it.


I moved out of Florida only to come back cause I missed it. South Florida for the record doesn't even count as rest of Florida lol


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## panda (Feb 12, 2021)

Keith I would love to have Hawaiian food truck out here in the east coast.


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## M1k3 (Feb 12, 2021)

panda said:


> I moved out of Florida only to come back cause I missed it. South Florida for the record doesn't even count as rest of Florida lol


What's the saying? "The more North you go, the more South it gets"?


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 12, 2021)

panda said:


> Keith I would love to have Hawaiian food truck out here in the east coast.



Yeh you could have it painted up by an artist with Florida or Hawaii theme. My friend has three food trucks started out with one. Food prep for them done in same kitchen. He has one at ocean front park with trees, grass, & tables. Masks are mandatory our cases. are going down. You can get tasty plate lunch with a beautiful setting.


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## JaVa (Feb 12, 2021)

panda said:


> Keith I would love to have Hawaiian food truck out here in the east coast.


Now that sounds like a plan!


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 12, 2021)

JaVa good move using chimichurri sauce on your steaks & burgers like a south american pesto. Good buns make all the difference in a burger. Like the sharp cheddar too.


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## JaVa (Feb 12, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Thanks JaVa I knew you were from Finland but forgot. Good burgers are popular everywhere.
> Sounds like your having fun. Good for you
> making best of situation.
> 
> ...


Yeah, thats the idea, to serve high quality restaurant food from the truck. You can get your prices very reasonable as the starting costs and running costs are low. People really appreciate the slightly more affordable prices as money is tight everywhere.

I prep at home. I have a decent kitchen space for that and a warehouse in the yard with pro fridges for storage. But can't wait to find a restaurant space to start working from there.

Lunch hours haven't worked for us that well. So we usually go to suburbs at around 2 pm an week days. Families go nuts. There's usually a line. They pick up like 4-8 dishes at a time. Every time we're in the city people just buy one item at a time.

Beaches, market places, grocery store fronts (owners contact us and wants us to come and provide that service to their customers) too has been great. Good music, few tables, good food, good vibes. almost like a small party. customers really dig all that.

The reason I'm sharing all this is maybe it sparks an idea for someone and that might bring some relief in these difficult times.


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## JaVa (Feb 12, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> JaVa good move using chimichurri sauce on your steaks & burgers like a south american pesto. Good buns make all the difference in a burger. Like the sharp cheddar too.



Thanks! I appreciate that.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 12, 2021)

It sounds like you hit a underused market in Finland. 

When I think of Finland how a small population country was beating invading Russian army after Stalin purged the officer core in the 1930's.


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## JaVa (Feb 13, 2021)

I'm always amazed when someone is aware of our little countrys history which is located here at the farthest corner of EU. We owe so much to our veterans for our independence. What they did is nothing short of a miracle.

If there ever was proof that the quote from Roman philosopher Seneca is true...
"LUCK is what happens when preparation meets opportunity"
Which basically means that there is no pre destined fate, but rather you make your own.

Because literally, that's exactly what happened.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 13, 2021)

I like military history esp. WW2
In 1939 the world watched as Finland with no modern planes or tanks held off vast force from Russia who thought they were going to blast through Finland with Tanks like the Germans did in western Poland. With excellent leadership like Mannerheim & Col. Aaro Pajari
both who had been in Finland's war of independence. 

I read the book A Frozen Hell years ago by William Trotter about the 1939 Winter War.
There are excellent UTubes on this war. 
What the Fins did ranks as one of the greatest defenses against a much larger mechanized force. 

It ranks with another miracle in modern Warfare the Yom Kipper war 1973. Egypt & Syria attacked Israel. Forces form other countries Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco & Cuba. Supported by weapons of war from Soviet Union including excellent SAM's. The Israeli jets were getting shot out of the sky. Heroic fighters with their back to the wall turned it around. Also good UTubes on these battles if your interested in military history.

Finland held on until Stalin sent massive military force against Finland. The Fins were still hanging on but we're running out of ammunition. They had been using captured weapons from Russians. A treaty was signed & Finland had to cede territory to Russia. But it was Finland that won with recognition of keeping it's independence. After the war Stalin was taking over plenty countries including Poland. He didn't want anything to do with Finland.


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## Tristan (Feb 13, 2021)

Singapore. Now even the mid high end is recovering as dining has been open for last 9 months and no holidays means more domestic splurges.


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## Danzo (Feb 24, 2021)

you could potentially make something out of your house. I've been doing ramen kits every other week or so, I could easily make it a full-time job, but its just a hobby. There's lost of that going around in Seattle, its cash too.


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## GorillaGrunt (Feb 24, 2021)

Ehh it’s not even that so much as I just want to be cooking every day in a good, fine dining or at least ish, restaurant to order for people coming and sitting down. Without having to think any more of this “what can we cobble together“ stuff.


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## Midsummer (Feb 24, 2021)

Here in Orlando the scene is picking up quite well for fine dining.

I have lived in Florida, North Carolina, New York, Oregon, Spain, Wisconsin and Missouri. I do not have the same emotional response as others to Florida.

I dislike the heat; but I think it has a lot going for it.


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## GorillaGrunt (Feb 24, 2021)

A friend of mine was just in FL and said that everything is pretty much normal except with masks on. Not wild and reckless stuff and not skittering around scared either. Definitely should have gone


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## AT5760 (Feb 24, 2021)

Just make the short drive down to Omaha. The good restaurants are doing well; some have closed, but not many.


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## JaVa (Feb 25, 2021)

In Finland the situation has been among the best in Europe, but it's now slowly started to slide. As I'm writing this there's a live press conference on TV where the government is issuing new regulations. One is that in most areas restaurants are going to be closed for 3 weeks. Which is going to be a last nail in coffin for many restaurants that's been fighting to stay alive already. 

There have been only a few places gone out of business so far, but that'll change in a few weeks for sure.

If take away is going to be still aloud then it won't effect our little food truck. It'll actually even help us because other pleces are shut down. We are slowly headed for spring now and after two months of vacationing we'll start rolling out again in two weeks as the weather is starting make it possible again.

Can't wait to get out there.


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## JaVa (Feb 25, 2021)

GorillaGrunt said:


> Ehh it’s not even that so much as I just want to be cooking every day in a good, fine dining or at least ish, restaurant to order for people coming and sitting down. Without having to think any more of this “what can we cobble together“ stuff.


I don't know if these are common knowledge, but shows anything's possible these days. These were actually a while back, but they present a different perspective of the possibilities food trucks can provide.








First Street Food in the World that gained a Michelin Star is in Singapore


Street Food gets a first Michelin Star thanks to 2 kiosks in Singapore managed by the chef Chan Hon Meng. Noodles and rice with meat are the awarded dishes.




www.vsveicolispeciali.com












The Mobile Food Industry has a Michelin 1 Star Operator


SAN FRANCISCO, CA - Unfortunately we are unable to report that a food truck has received a star Michelin rating; however we are proud to announce the mobile food industry can say it now has the owner of a 1 star brick and mortar restaurants within its ranks.




mobile-cuisine.com


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## Jville (Mar 1, 2021)

For all y'all talking smack about Florida Florida got it right, and the lockdown states got it wrong .


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## Michi (Mar 2, 2021)

Here is a graph that shows the infection history for Florida: Florida Coronavirus: 1,910,921 Cases and 31,003 Deaths (COVID-19 ) - Worldometer

The daily infection curve follows pretty much the same pattern as everywhere else, with a big hump November to January, and a slow decline in February.

In terms of cases per million population, Florida falls somewhere in the middle, with some states with hard lockdowns having done better, and some having done worse.

The same applies in terms of deaths per million population. Somewhere in the middle.


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## Midsummer (Mar 2, 2021)

If we really want to have this discussion an analysis of the number of vulnerable per million should be done. Florida has typically been considered a retirement state. The death rate is profoundly affected by age.

The restaurants appear to be doing very well. I know my favorites require reservations that are in short supply on popular days. I hope everyones economy makes it backs well!


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## Michi (Mar 2, 2021)

Midsummer said:


> If we really want to have this discussion an analysis of the number of vulnerable per million should be done. Florida has typically been considered a retirement state. The death rate is profoundly affected by age.


Indeed.

The problem with a single condensed figure such as "deaths per million population" is that it hides a lot of things.

Making some things up to illustrate the point, maybe older people (because they are older and, on average, wiser) are more careful? If so, a state with an older population would do relatively better. Or, just maybe, because it is warmer in Florida, people spend more time outdoors and in well-ventilated areas, so the virus has a harder time spreading?

I suspect that there are dozens of confounding factors such as these that make a state-by-state comparison problematic.


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## esoo (Mar 2, 2021)

Jville said:


> For all y'all talking smack about Florida Florida got it right, and the lockdown states got it wrong .



Considering the lengths Florida was using to control the reporting of its numbers, I'd take any comments about them with massive grains of salt.


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## tcmx3 (Mar 6, 2021)

esoo said:


> Considering the lengths Florida was using to control the reporting of its numbers, I'd take any comments about them with massive grains of salt.



seriously when your state carries out an armed raid against the data scientist who you sacked for refusing to fudge the numbers that's a pretty strong sign things are going wrong.

"she had a laptop with government information on it!"

well it turns out that someone was able to compromise a water treatment plant in florida a few days later so my guess is that there's nothing on that laptop everyone who wants it doesnt already have

besides you can just subpoena the woman.


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## M1k3 (Mar 6, 2021)

Everyone shared the same user name and password! That was readily available on the internet!! Opsec fail!!!


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## daveb (Mar 6, 2021)

Some local govt in Fla still trying to be stupid - counties and cities. But for the most part it's been less impacted and getting towards normal faster than our neighbors


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 27, 2021)

I live in Santa Rosa CA. restaurants are doing well here. or did well. the good ones at least.

lines out the door for contactless to-go orders during the worst times of the pandemic. even a good Himalayan restaurant survived and they ran a buffet!!

I cant wait to visit florida. I want to fish for Peacock bass in the canals!!


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## GorillaGrunt (Apr 27, 2021)

Yeah takeout from good restaurants was not super popular in Milwaukee. Everything here just blew up in the last few weeks though - went from no jobs posted at all to everyone looking to hire and open overnight


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## AT5760 (Apr 27, 2021)

I’m in a large restaurant/food FB group here. Every day for the past week or two, a restaurant is posting that they are closing for a day, or for a day each week for the foreseeable future because they don’t have enough staff.


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## M1k3 (Apr 27, 2021)




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## panda (Apr 27, 2021)

boomchakabowwow said:


> I live in Santa Rosa CA. restaurants are doing well here. or did well. the good ones at least.
> 
> lines out the door for contactless to-go orders during the worst times of the pandemic. even a good Himalayan restaurant survived and they ran a buffet!!
> 
> I cant wait to visit florida. I want to fish for Peacock bass in the canals!!


you want to go to Florida to catch fresh water fish?? go get you some snapper man..


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## boomchakabowwow (Apr 27, 2021)

panda said:


> you want to go to Florida to catch fresh water fish?? go get you some snapper man..


Haha. I will. I’d go to the Amazon for peacock, but Florida is so much closer.


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## daveb (Apr 27, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 124631



The struggle is real. Local McD franchise is paying $50 to come in and interview for a job. Any job. And not getting takers.


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## daveb (Apr 28, 2021)

boomchakabowwow said:


> I cant wait to visit florida. I want to fish for Peacock bass in the canals!!



Come to Florida for Osceola. I wouldn't eat anything that came out of the canals.


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## birdsfan (May 4, 2021)

It is the same all over. Local job postings for dishwashers advertise a salary that is $2/hr more than what I make.


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## JDA_NC (May 4, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 124631



Local news article: 









Restaurants need workers, but not enough workers seem to need those jobs


Larry Cerilli, co-owner of Snoopy's Hot Dogs, said Monday the restaurant is down 24 workers at their four locations in Raleigh.




www.wral.com





"Minimum wage across North Carolina is $7.25 an hour, with workers making $290 a week.

With unemployment benefits, people can make up to $650 a week. But people have to prove they're searching for a job to keep the weekly benefits coming.

*Cerilli said Snoopy's pays $9 per hour, but it hasn't helped with recruitment. The restaurant is looking to hire 24 employees.*"


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## birdsfan (May 4, 2021)

My ex-wife lives in the Raleigh area and is in grocery store management. Restaurants are not alone. She can't find anyone willing to work either. 

I suspect that given the volume of unemployment claims, there is very little verification being done to ensure people really are looking for work. I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, it is nice to see the working poor finally getting a "come up" but dayum, I am getting my a$$ kicked on the line every day and need some help.


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## birdsfan (May 4, 2021)

Of course, it might also be that those line cooks reevaluated their career choices during the furlough, and decided that peering at the world through a full rack of tickets every Friday and Saturday night while the rest of the workforce enjoys a social life simply isnt worth $15/hr


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## JDA_NC (May 4, 2021)

birdsfan said:


> My ex-wife lives in the Raleigh area and is in grocery store management. Restaurants are not alone. She can't find anyone willing to work either.
> 
> I suspect that given the volume of unemployment claims, there is very little verification being done to ensure people really are looking for work. I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, it is nice to see the working poor finally getting a "come up" but dayum, I am getting my a$$ kicked on the line every day and need some help.



I just dislike the double standard between businesses/corporations and the average working person. We are expected to pinch our pennies in order to amass a safety net in the case that we come across any sort of economic hardship. Even though wages have been stagnant since the 1970s. We were watching a documentary about John Wayne Gacy the other day and it mentioned how he was making $12/hr working as a cook in Chicago in the 70s. My wife and I both made the same amount working in the same city in 2015/2016 (actually, we both started lower at $11/hr). 

I was born and raised here in NC and I have worked for $6.75/hr, $7.25/hr, and $8/hr. The idea of paying someone $9/hr today, even for cooking hotdogs & burgers, is a slap in the ****ing face. The cost of living has skyrocketed here (and everywhere) in the last two decades. Yet we're fine with bailing out all these businesses, even though it's clear they don't give a damn about providing any sort of decent life for their employees.

*'"I think where a lot of people are focused is on the unemployment benefits," North Carolina Restaurant Association board member Amber Moshakos said. "How do we create an unemployment structure that helps protect people, but at the same time encourages them to get back to work?"'*

This is especially cute to me. An industry which has almost never provided health insurance, paid time off, and/or sick-leave wants policies that "encourages them to get back to work." Read: we want no security net or workers' rights so we can continue to profit off the desperation of an increasingly squeezed work force in an era of extreme economic inequality.


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## birdsfan (May 4, 2021)

Yeah man....you are completely right. Very well said. The only people I know in the business who have insurance and paid time off have corporate cooking gigs, and they are a small minority. People who have stayed in the industry either really love making good food or they simply can't afford to start a new job and wait 3 weeks to a month for their first check. Or....they have baggage which would make it difficult to find work in a more conservative environment.

A lot of business owners, and those who earn at higher levels simply don't understand the constant life challenges of the working poor. $15/hr really isnt a living wage in most areas. Because budgets are so lean, it is nearly impossible to set aside a "safety net" The slightest hickups, car repair, illness, an ill-advised BST purchase, can cause a nearly insurmountable financial hardship. Many people I know are a hair breadth from being homeless. In my time in the industry I have known several who suffered just such a fate from an unexpected set back.


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## M1k3 (May 4, 2021)

JDA_NC said:


> Local news article:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Any of them $15/hr Amazon jobs around?


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## tgfencer (May 4, 2021)

JDA_NC said:


> I just dislike the double standard between businesses/corporations and the average working person. We are expected to pinch our pennies in order to amass a safety net in the case that we come across any sort of economic hardship. Even though wages have been stagnant since the 1970s. We were watching a documentary about John Wayne Gacy the other day and it mentioned how he was making $12/hr working as a cook in Chicago in the 70s. My wife and I both made the same amount working in the same city in 2015/2016 (actually, we both started lower at $11/hr).
> 
> I was born and raised here in NC and I have worked for $6.75/hr, $7.25/hr, and $8/hr. The idea of paying someone $9/hr today, even for cooking hotdogs & burgers, is a slap in the ****ing face. The cost of living has skyrocketed here (and everywhere) in the last two decades. Yet we're fine with bailing out all these businesses, even though it's clear they don't give a damn about providing any sort of decent life for their employees.
> 
> ...



Yeah, people just want to get paid fairly, have benefits, and work in an environment of mutual respect. If unemployment is a better way to make a living than actual jobs, then the problem isn't truly with unemployment benefits.

Not to mention that NC is a notoriously difficult state to get and retain unemployment benefits, and even if you're successful, the amount is meager, the timeframe is short, and the burden of proof regarding job-searching is very high. (At least in non-pandemic times).









Unemployment insurance changes needed in North Carolina – North Carolina Justice Center


Updated March 2021 Once upon a time, North Carolina’s Unemployment Insurance program provided not only critical assistance to laid off workers and their …




www.ncjustice.org






*Just 9 percent of jobless workers before COVID-19 in North Carolina received Unemployment Insurance* (NOTE: This percent even for state UI was 46 percent in 2020).
The *average duration of Unemployment Insurance in North Carolina is just 9.6 weeks*, ranking 45th in the country. This short duration is, in part, a function of the state’s arbitrary sliding scale that ties the number of weeks of benefits to the state unemployment rate. North Carolina ranks last in the country for the percentage of workers exhausting benefits.
North Carolina *provides just $216 each week* on average to jobless workers and a fixed maximum of $350, despite the average weekly wage in the state being $1,002. The state is replacing just *23 cents for every $1 in lost income*, circulating far fewer dollars than recommended by economists who typically seek a replacement rate of at least 50 percent.


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## Bigbbaillie (May 4, 2021)

Anyone here work in a more institutional setting? Would be interested to here how that has been over the pandemic, been thinking of maybe trying to transfer more towards that for food-based work...

I also feel like if more chefs started using their work for that kind of cooking that the work conditions for cooks might change for the better. We wouldn't be working with such great ingredients or complicated techniques and preperations, but I think the world would value the work of chefs more if the career was generally reframed as something geared towards providing a need for people. From my view restaurants and chefs are too geared towards a kind of luxury/commodity based production that intrinsically drives up prices. Not to say there isn't a place for fine dining or restaurants (or that I don't appreciate them for what they are) but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Would love to hear from anyone with experience or more informed opinions about this, I'm just spewing half baked ideas.


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## Mikeltee (May 4, 2021)

Indiana fast food is paying $15hr posted on all their windows. I bought a 6k Sq house for 250k in the #1 ranked city 4 years ago if you are wondering what our cost of living is like. Fine dining is starting to come back. You won't ever have to worry about giving up your pew pews either if that is important to you.


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## Bodine (May 4, 2021)

Restaurants are doing well here, they are hiring Latino labor to cut costs. Heck I went to a Sushi restaurant last week and the Sushi chefs were Latins. This is why the govt is letting them in, to cloak the inflation that is upon us. The middle class is being squeezed out of existence. 
Coming to a town near you soon.
The Fed is printing money, and labor rates are stagnant.
I was born in the early 50's, my mother never worked and we were middle class, 90% of moms did not have to work, a man could provide for his family on his own. This has been gone for a long time, in fact many have to work multiple jobs to keep their heads above water.
Sorry for the rant, but it is not getting any better.


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## tcmx3 (May 4, 2021)

noticed some of the articles mostly/only quote owners, read this interesting article with many (and mostly just) quotes from workers, just for variety might be worth a read:








Covid Destroyed the Illusion of the Restaurant Industry


Service workers told The Flashpoint what the lockdowns and government aid showed them about the business




eoinhiggins.substack.com





the amount you make on unemployment is tiny from my perspective too, I dont think I would destroy my body to make even less than that. I dunno I have a simple mindset when it comes to these things: no one who works full time should live in poverty in the richest country in the world.


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## Mikeltee (May 4, 2021)

tgfencer said:


> North Carolina *provides just $216 each week* on average to jobless workers and a fixed maximum of $350, despite the average weekly wage in the state being $1,002. The state is replacing just *23 cents for every $1 in lost income*, circulating far fewer dollars than recommended by economists who typically seek a replacement rate of at least 50 percent.



1k a week on average? Do half of you drive a tesla? 52k a year on average is insane!


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## tcmx3 (May 4, 2021)

Mikeltee said:


> 1k a week on average? Do half of you drive a tesla? 52k a year on average is insane!



I mean the median income in NC is 28k, it's just that NC has Charlotte with some mega earners who drag up the average.


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## tgfencer (May 4, 2021)

Mikeltee said:


> 1k a week on average? Do half of you drive a tesla? 52k a year on average is insane!



Yeah, not sure where that stat comes from. Raleigh/Durham and Charlotte have a bunch of banking/tech/university/medical jobs so I think they throw off the curve somewhat (not sure if they're counting salaries in that wage calculation or not). Where I live in the mountains, the economy is largely tourism centered and wages are probably anywhere from $7-13/hr average depending on industry.


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## tcmx3 (May 4, 2021)

tgfencer said:


> Yeah, not sure where that stat comes from. Raleigh/Durham and Charlotte have a bunch of banking/tech/university/medical jobs so I think they throw off the curve somewhat (not sure if they're counting salaries in that wage calculation or not). Where I live in the mountains, the economy is largely tourism centered and wages are probably anywhere from $7-13/hr average depending on industry.



for every single person who makes 1 million dollars you would need 19 people making zero dollars to average out to 50k. subsequently, for a billion, you would need 19,999 people making zero dollars.

any state with a real tech or finance industry (of which NC has both) will have blown out averages. hence why I pointed to median salary, which works out to where half the people make just slightly north of the state's poverty line for a small family.


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## GorillaGrunt (May 4, 2021)

Ironically the industry I now work in is one of the few areas where I don’t have a global breadth of knowledge and the attendant perspective, so perhaps someone from outside the US can fill in the blanks and either confirm or disprove. But: it seems to me that around here these issues are in large part a function of Americans not caring much about their food nor the people who produce it, a lack of respect for food in particular even beyond the baseline issues of inequality.

An overheard remark in passing that I wouldn’t think I’d ever hear in France or Japan: “it’s not that good but you get so much for the money!” Again I haven’t spent much time abroad discussing or studying the economics of food but it seems from this end that in the countries where the attitudes are beginning to approach the American one, it’s frequently mentioned in terms of American corporate and cultural influence e.g. UK and Mexico.


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## stringer (May 4, 2021)

In the United States the people who spend the largest share of their income on eating out are the top 20 percent and the bottom 20 percent. The top 20 percent want to be pampered and fed obscure rare ingredients and eat something special and organic and foraged and gluten free and they are willing to pay for it. The bottom 20 percent eat fast food. It's a lot of calories really cheap really fast. Their kids will eat it without complaining and it will keep them full until the next meal time. It may not be great but it's consistent. And it's cheaper than what they can do for home for a bunch of people from scratch (think of a bucket of fried chicken or something). Most of us fall somewhere in between.


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## juice (May 4, 2021)

JDA_NC said:


> *Cerilli said Snoopy's pays $9 per hour, but it hasn't helped with recruitment. The restaurant is looking to hire 24 employees.*"


Out here in the first world, people are just shaking their heads at the idea that this is even a thing.


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## pleue (May 4, 2021)

There's a mess of issues coming home to roost. One large one is that the prevailing ideology around restaurants is that you grow by adding more locations of the same idea/model/concept because it simplifies your operations - Central kitchen for prep, ordering higher volumes at lower margins of the same product, standardizing training, even the TIs on build outs etc. What it does is allow you to staff your **** with sandwich artists. People end up assembling rather than cooking and you can hire lower skilled people and not invest in training any real skills besides how to put the pieces together. Yet, this also relies on a smaller workforce of people to manage central operations and train/hire/run this model, typically skilled cooks looking to 'move up.' What this does in my experience is basically akin to monoculture farming practices. You destroy the training pipeline for your labor force because you've chosen to de-value that aspect of the business for the sake of efficiency. It therefore becomes other restaurant owners' collective responsibility as they too strive for more locations with leaner staffing models in what becomes a race to the bottom. What it also does is pre-maturely burn out any one with talent who eyes some semblance of stability (trading in that sous chef job that's killing you at line cook wages when you break down how many hours you work for a job running a commissary with daytime hours, a signing bonus, etc.) by putting them in the perpetual soul sucking position of constantly having to find/hire/train new bodies to take the spots at these various locations which still need a body to take money and put things together all while running a crazy amount of logistics at a paltry wage rate when compared to the job responsibilities of comparable jobs in other industries.

Round here, starting linecook wage is $15-16/hr. Rent for a room is $600-900+ not including utilities and the subsequent insecurity of housing sharing. A studio is $900-1300+. Add in normal expenses (health insurance, transportation, food, utilities) and your up against being cash neutral provided that everything breaks your way and nothing breaks (car, body, etc.) Pre pandemic when I ran restaurants, I lost a number of talented cooks to bike accidents, car accidents, medical bills, having to switch jobs to pay culinary school debt (mostly shipping/receiving), not having any family leave, not having childcare, not having elder care, etc. All my staff had at least two jobs. I had 2-3 jobs when I was line cooking. If you want to have a family, maybe buy even buy a house, there isn't a worn path in sight on how to do that around here in this industry. $9/hr? Get the hell out of here.

We treat all things like industries and commodities including housing, education, and health and there's a few making a lot on the backs and necks of the many. As such, making a shift in one and not all the others is like trying to replace one tire to get back on the road when you have blowouts in all of them. You hear about career waiters in the old world? In Vienna, 60% of citizens live in rent controlled well maintained state owned housing. Career line cooks? In Japan, elder care for a month is less than I pay out of pocket for seeing a doctor.

What this whole pandemic thing has laid bare for me to witness is to what extent the powers that be have succeeded in diminishing our empathetic impulses and uncoupling us from the reality that we're far far closer to destitute than billionaire and far more powerful we are when acting collectively vs. individually. I think there's hopefully a reckoning coming in the midst of all this around what exactly is the societally accepted floor for human suffering and what industries actively contribute toward either lowering or obfuscating that bar though we're sure as hell gonna be distracted and pitted against each other wherever possible. Phew sorry for ranting.


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## YumYumSauce (May 6, 2021)

I can sense my city is about to pop off, restrictions are gonna be lifted in June. My current spot has been pretty busy and has the same staffing issues as other places but I also dislike its ownership and how its mangaged since before the pandemic so Im leaving for a new spot opening up. 

Having a union helps. The major resorts and hotels are mostly union but the smaller mom&pop and local resturants arent.


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## tcmx3 (May 6, 2021)

pleue said:


> Round here, starting linecook wage is $15-16/hr. Rent for a room is $600-900+ not including utilities and the subsequent insecurity of housing sharing. A studio is $900-1300+. Add in normal expenses (health insurance, transportation, food, utilities) and your up against being cash neutral provided that everything breaks your way and nothing breaks (car, body, etc.) Pre pandemic when I ran restaurants,* I lost a number of talented cooks to bike accidents, car accidents, medical bills, having to switch jobs to pay culinary school debt (mostly shipping/receiving), not having any family leave, not having childcare, not having elder care, etc.* All my staff had at least two jobs. I had 2-3 jobs when I was line cooking. If you want to have a family, maybe buy even buy a house, there isn't a worn path in sight on how to do that around here in this industry. $9/hr? Get the hell out of here.



it sure is a real shame that the single largest economy in the world cant solve these problems that have been figured out by... oh everyone else.

frankly there is a simple solution to this problem; either implement a safety net to enable the current system, force wages up to be equivalent, or watch as people do literally anything else. as was mentioned, people are way more keen to work at an Amazon warehouse, the sort of place that's actually pretty famous for mistreating employees, except that it's still a step up so of course people are going to take it. nothing political about this; we are observing the factuality of my premise in real time.


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## M1k3 (May 6, 2021)

tcmx3 said:


> as was mentioned, people are way more keen to work at an Amazon warehouse, the sort of place that's actually pretty famous for mistreating employees, except that it's still a step up so of course people are going to take it. nothing political about this; we are observing the factuality of my premise in real time.


I can attest to this. I seriously considered working for Amazon or Whole Foods, even applied at one point. It is a step up from a lot of places. Scheduled breaks. Able to sit down away from your worksite and eat food. No worries about someone trying to change your hours worked after the fact. And so on...


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## stringer (May 6, 2021)

I was scrolling through my linked in contacts the other day. It's crazy how many chefs, banquet managers, restaurant managers, and catering sales contacts have left the industry entirely. 

Banquets are starting to trickle in my at old hotel. They are optimistic about the second half of the year. They have a bunch of weddings booked. The workers are union so they have mostly stayed and kept their benefits ($0 out of pocket, no copay health insurance being the main one) just haven't got any hours for a year taking unemployment. It would be a nice system to have for the whole economy if you care about independent restaurants.

But I digress. The middle managers have moved on and are selling real estate and cars and managing dental offices and bank branches.


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## Dhoff (May 9, 2021)

**** me - at 9 bucks and hour I'd be tempted to hire a cook full time just to cook for me. That is not an okay salary


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## daveb (May 9, 2021)

Dhoff said:


> at 9 bucks and hour I'd be tempted to hire a cook full time j



You wouldn't be able to find one. My corp limits me to 10/hr for qualified cooks - across the street they start at 14 - guess who has staffing problems?


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## M1k3 (May 9, 2021)

daveb said:


> You wouldn't be able to find one. My corp limits me to 10/hr for qualified cooks - across the street they start at 14 - guess who has staffing problems?


Both places?


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## daveb (May 9, 2021)

Yr not wrong, but it is a matter of degree.


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## M1k3 (May 9, 2021)

daveb said:


> Yr not wrong, but it is a matter of degree.


Just a matter of 4 out 5 instead of 3 out of 5 no shows for interviews?


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## daveb (May 9, 2021)

I don't even get interviews....


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## robertito (May 10, 2021)

This whole restaurant pay thing sickens me. I am almost sorry to report that when I left the deli biz in late 1984 in Chicago, I was making over $10/hr. For 7A-3P, M-F, fixed 30 min lunch, but no bennies. I wish we could tip BOH instead of the waitrons.


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