# Good starter stone?



## hill (Jan 21, 2019)

Looking to get my first whetstone. Looking at the Sharp Pebble. Sufficient? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FZZUL30/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Is there another one that is better? I'm not looking to break the bank on this as I've only got a couple of knives I'd be sharpening.

Thanks.


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## daveb (Jan 21, 2019)

I don't shop Amazon for knife "stuff" but. This one is a known quantity, a solid stone that will produce good results with most knife steels. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BY2LZXE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The one you cited is a new kid on the block and would not be a choice I would make.


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## HRC_64 (Jan 21, 2019)

daveb said:


> I don't shop Amazon for knife "stuff" but. This one is a known quantity, a solid stone that will produce good results with most knife steels. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BY2LZXE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> 
> The one you cited is a new kid on the block and would not be a choice I would make.



Prob get a Chosera 800 for that money (mid $60s)


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## Ivang (Jan 21, 2019)

Shapton pro 1k


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## Knife2meatu (Jan 21, 2019)

This one looks virtually identical to the Sharp Pebble, but only costs roughly 70% as much: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CPTM52M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20





I can't say for sure that it's the same one though. 

For the same $38 as the stone OP linked, I'd rather get the King KDS: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0034YR016/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## HRC_64 (Jan 21, 2019)

dont buy whetstones based on how they look FFS


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## hill (Jan 21, 2019)

It doesn't have to be amazon. If there is a stone that is recommended that is from another source, that is fine. I really know very little about the proper stone and looking for my first one.


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## lemeneid (Jan 21, 2019)

Ivang said:


> Shapton pro 1k


This

Or a king 1k/6k or a naniwa 1k/3k these seem to be the go- to starter stones.

What knife do you own? If you own stainless then a smaller grit jump would be better. If carbon, bigger gaps in grit is perfectly good.


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## Michi (Jan 21, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> This one looks virtually identical to the Sharp Pebble, but only costs roughly 70% as much: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CPTM52M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



I tried that stone (or possibly one from a different seller that looks indistinguishable).

I found it to be garbage. The 1000 side is much coarser than 1000, IMO, and the binder for it is very soft. The 6000 side is better, but also coarser than a true 6000, and quite soft. The stone dishes very quickly (as in ridiculously quickly), especially on the 1000 side.

You can use that stone with soft steels, such as Wüsthof and get an acceptable result if you strop afterwards. For anything harder, I'd say forget it.

For a good entry-level stone, the King KDS has a very good reputation and should work well with anything except super-hard PM steels. And it's a full-size stone, whereas those cheap ones from eBay and Amazon are smaller, which isn't so great if you want to sharpen anything larger than a pocket knife.


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## hill (Jan 22, 2019)

I own this: https://www.sakaiknife.com/product.asp?id=SH00027



lemeneid said:


> This
> 
> Or a king 1k/6k or a naniwa 1k/3k these seem to be the go- to starter stones.
> 
> What knife do you own? If you own stainless then a smaller grit jump would be better. If carbon, bigger gaps in grit is perfectly good.


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## streak (Jan 22, 2019)

Hill,
I was in the same position as you last year. I went back and forth on these no name brand combo stones. I eventually bought a $20 Norton IB8 India combo stone.
I used this to practice with and to see if had what it took to freehand sharpen. Now that I am better at it I have just ordered the very highly recommended splash and go Shapton pro 2000.


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## McMan (Jan 22, 2019)

Ivang said:


> Shapton pro 1k


Yup. Won't break the bank either.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TPFT0G/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## M1k3 (Jan 22, 2019)

In no particular order...
Shapton Pro/Kuromaka or Glass 1k or 2k
Naniwa Chosera 800 or 1k
King Deluxe 1000
Bester 1200
Cerax 1000
Gesshin
JNS

I'm probably forgetting some. I'd probably get the Shapton 2k though.


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## labor of love (Jan 22, 2019)

I love shapton 1k but wouldn’t the chosera be better for someone new to stones? Isn’t it more forgiving?


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## Knife2meatu (Jan 22, 2019)

HRC_64 said:


> dont buy whetstones based on how they look FFS



It is remarkable how many imitators of the Sharp Pebble there are, down to the accessories they package with their similar looking stones. The stone which caught my eye isn't actually the same dimensions as the Sharp Pebble, now that I look at it more closely.

Evidently Michi has tried some similar stone and found it to be garbage, which is good to know.


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## Panamapeet (Jan 22, 2019)

A shameless bit of self promotion: maybe these threads can help out.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/coarse-synthetic-stone-comparison.40030/
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...-1k-stones-jns-watanabe-and-king-hyper.37466/


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## Michi (Jan 22, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> Evidently Michi has tried some similar stone and found it to be garbage, which is good to know.


Yeah. I also bought a 240/800, which is garbage, too. Those stones are cheap, and you get exactly what you pay for. Lesson learned. It's part of the price of acquiring a new skill.


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## Michi (Jan 22, 2019)

This Sharp Pebble thing got me thinking… There are tons of sellers on eBay and Amazon who sell stones that look identical, down to the bamboo stand and the angle guide. I tacitly assumed that these really were all the same stone from the same factory, just re-badged by different re-sellers. But now I'm wondering whether the Sharp Pebble is actually OK, and the others are copies that are worse in quality, or whether they are all garbage, including the Sharp Pebble.

Here are some examples:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06ZYGQFS3/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074VPCRYS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=132455718827

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=253557804721

There are plenty more vendors that sell that stone with different printing on the side.

If someone here happens to have a Sharp Pebble branded 1000/6000, I'd be happy to send you my 1000/6000 for comparison. It would be interesting to know if and how they differ. All I'd ask in return is a review of what you find out. Let me know if you have the Sharp Pebble and you are interested.

Michi.


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## Matus (Jan 22, 2019)

Don't buy 'starter' stones as those are usually of unimpressive quality. Just get a 2-3 proper stones (Suehiro, Cerax, Bester, Gesshin JNS, Chosera, Shapton, etc.). Read a bit around here - there was already a ton of discussions on different stones


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## Grunt173 (Jan 22, 2019)

I highly agree with Matus.


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## AT5760 (Jan 22, 2019)

Hill, I am in a similar position as you. I'm new to kitchen knife sharpening and don't want to go overboard initially. I started a thread here, which gave me some great feedback and recommendations. I also did some other online research on less expensive stones, including the Sharp Pebble. My research on the Sharp Pebble made me suspicious of its quality and the legitimacy of many Amazon reviews for the product.

I decided to go with a Shapton Pro 1k for starters. If I enjoy it and am able to figure it out, then I'll add a lower grit, higher grit and a flattening plate in the future. If not, I'm only out about $50. You should consider where you are going to sharpen and if your setup will be comfortable. 

I have some leftover Corian lying around, so I'll likely build a sink bridge using that. Having your stone elevated enough so that you aren't scraping your knuckles on the counter/work bench will make things much more comfortable.


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## Panamapeet (Jan 22, 2019)

Matus said:


> Don't buy 'starter' stones as those are usually of unimpressive quality. Just get a 2-3 proper stones (Suehiro, Cerax, Bester, Gesshin JNS, Chosera, Shapton, etc.). Read a bit around here - there was already a ton of discussions on different stones


Fully agree. All in all we are maybe talking a few 10's of dollars of price difference, but a lifetime of misery


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## HRC_64 (Jan 22, 2019)

Agree with these guys...Its better to wait to buy a second stone than to save $10 or 20 on a crap 1K. 
Also, dont buy a smaller stone trying to save money.

Shapton pro 1-2k = $35-45 ish
Cerax 1k = 35-40ish
king 800, 1000, 1200 = 30 ish

Shapton Glass 1k or 2k is around $60ish
Chosera $65ish (Amazon)
Kinge Hyper $65ish (imported)


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## galvaude (Jan 22, 2019)

Buy nice don’t buy twice.

Shapton pro’s are a lot of value for the money. Start with the 1k and get another one later on, buy a lattening plate right away, atoma 140 or dmt xxc.


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## Ivan Hersh (Feb 2, 2019)

I started with a King 1000/6000 and a good quality stone holder.


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## slickmamba (Feb 2, 2019)

My first good stone was the chosera 800 and I am very happy with it, then bought a 3000 soon after


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## slickmamba (Feb 2, 2019)

galvaude said:


> Buy nice don’t buy twice



Stones last years, so think of it as an investment over several years, $40 spread over 5+ years(depending on how much you sharpen/thin) is not much different than $60-80 over that time.


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## hawkoath (Feb 3, 2019)

king 1000/6000 would be my suggestion. probably the best value stone and great for a beginner as well


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## Ivan Hersh (Feb 3, 2019)

Another sharping system i use that requires no oil or water, is the Fallkniven Diamond-Ceramic DC521.

I use it with my Axes and other carbon steel blades, the diamond side quickly gets a worn dull blade ready for the ceramic fine grit 25 micron finishing side of Combo stone

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AN0TQ2K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## vicv (Feb 3, 2019)

I like my king 1k. I don't use it much anymore or any 1k stone but it is a good one and feels nice. The 6k......not so much but it works and is the last stone in my razor sharpeings setup


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## Ivan Hersh (Feb 5, 2019)

Anyone using this Kiatayama 8000 stone, and if so what do you think of it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0031KGP6Y/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Grunt173 (Feb 6, 2019)

I would make a suggestion but I have to many first stones.


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## psfred (Feb 6, 2019)

I have a Kitayama, but it's from Bester and is a gold colored semi-synthetic stone. I've become leary of those inexpensive usually Chinese no-name stones. The last one I tried was listed as 8000 grit and scratched like a 1000 grit stone and was VERY soft to boot. 

The only use for a Kitayama at 8k grit would be final polish, for a "first stone" you probably need a 1k grit stone for actual sharpening, and then a 3k or 6k (or both) for polishing the edge. Stick with one of the well known vendors of those stones -- Bester (my favorite), Shapton, Naniwa, etc. as they all make very high quality stones of known composition.


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## Chef Doom (Feb 6, 2019)

Jki 2000


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## PappaG (Feb 6, 2019)

Not a good first stone. but it is a good third or fourth stone.


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## jacko9 (Feb 6, 2019)

JNS 1K stone; http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/jns-1000-matukusuyama/


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## charlesquik (Feb 6, 2019)

Nothing wrong with a cheap king 1000/6000 combo. the holder is bad though


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## podzap (Feb 7, 2019)

Naniwa Chosera line is no longer manufactured. Professional is nearly identical from what I have gathered, albeit thinner.


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## Nemo (Feb 7, 2019)

podzap said:


> Naniwa Chosera line is no longer manufactured.



Are you sure that this is true? My understanding is that Chosera is still sold in JDM (as well as at KnS).


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## podzap (Feb 7, 2019)

Nemo said:


> Are you sure that this is true? My understanding is that Chosera is still sold in JDM (as well as at KnS).



Yes, I am sure. https://www.naniwa-abrasive.com/product/sharpening_stone/index1.html

It seems they still sell them with that brand name for the Japanese Market Only.


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## Michi (Feb 7, 2019)

As far as I know, the Chosera is the Japanese version of the professional stone, and the Chosera is still for sale in Japan. The Pro version is for the export market. It's the same as the Chosera, but thinner, more expensive at most places I've looked, and it doesn't come mounted to a base.

Naniwa must be doing something right. No base and less stone for more money…


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## Michi (Feb 7, 2019)

Michi said:


> As far as I know, the Chosera is the Japanese version of the professional stone, and the Chosera is still for sale in Japan.


Hmmm… I might be wrong there. The Choseras for sale might be remaining old stock?

Still, the point stands: the Professional is the same thing, except I pay more and get less.


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## Nemo (Feb 7, 2019)

podzap said:


> Yes, I am sure. https://www.naniwa-abrasive.com/product/sharpening_stone/index1.html
> 
> It seems they still sell them with that brand name for the Japanese Market Only.


On the page that you linked, I cannot see where it says that Chosera is no longer manufactured.


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## Grunt173 (Feb 7, 2019)

Michi said:


> Hmmm… I might be wrong there. The Choseras for sale might be remaining old stock?
> 
> Still, the point stands: the Professional is the same thing, except I pay more and get less.



You can still get the base versions of the Chos on ebay here in the States. I have the 400,800 and 3k new in the box that I bought about a year ago.I'll probably use them if and when my Pros fall apart from their spider web cracks.


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## Michi (Feb 7, 2019)

At the bottom of this page, it shows the Chosera and says "Japanese market only".


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## Nemo (Feb 7, 2019)

Michi said:


> At the bottom of this page, it shows the Chosera and says "Japanese market only".


But you can still get them at other places. FWIW, mine came from KnS, albeit a couple of years ago. But I'm pretty sure that KnS still carries them


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## Michi (Feb 7, 2019)

Nemo said:


> But you can still get them at other places. FWIW, mine came from KnS, albeit a couple of years ago. But I'm pretty sure that KnS still carries them


Yes, they are available from quite a few places. It's just not clear to me whether it really is a discontinued item, or discontinued only for sale outside Japan.

I heard previously that the Chosera is alive and well in Japan. The link I posted above seems to suggest the same thing. But I can't find a Japanese version of the website that would answer this definitively.

For what it's worth, I had my eye on the Professional 3000 instead of the Chosera because I don't like stones on bases. But, after reading all the complaints about cracks appearing in the Professionals, I bought a Cerax 3000. I'm happy with that one. Works well, and fits smack-bang in between my Cerax 1000 and Rika 5000.


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## Nemo (Feb 7, 2019)

Michi said:


> Yes, they are available from quite a few places. It's just not clear to me whether it really is a discontinued item, or discontinued only for sale outside Japan.
> 
> I heard previously that the Chosera is alive and well in Japan. The link I posted above seems to suggest the same thing. But I can't find a Japanese version of the website that would answer this definitively.
> 
> For what it's worth, I had my eye on the Professional 3000 instead of the Chosera because I don't like stones on bases. But, after reading all the complaints about cracks appearing in the Professionals, I bought a Cerax 3000. I'm happy with that one. Works well, and fits smack-bang in between my Cerax 1000 and Rika 5000.


Yeah, I read all of the complaints about Choseras cracking too. Never had that issue. Not sure if it's because I use them strictly as S&G, because I sealed them or because we have a fairly dry climate here (although I must say some the days this summer reminded me a bit of Brisbane summer humidity [emoji848]- strange weather indeed).


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## Michi (Feb 7, 2019)

Nemo said:


> Yeah, I read all of the complaints about Choseras cracking too. Never had that issue. Not sure if it's because I use them strictly as S&G, because I sealed them or because we have a fairly dry climate here (although I must say some the days this summer reminded me a bit of Brisbane summer humidity [emoji848]- strange weather indeed).



I think it's the Professionals that have this problem, not the Choseras.

Oh, yes. Brisbane weather in December and January sucks. It doesn't matter which year. If it's dry, it sucks because it's too hot. If it isn't dry, it sucks because it's too humid. Can't win 

The other ten months of the year it's awesome, though!


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## Matus (Feb 7, 2019)

For what it's worth - in a discussion outside KKF about razor sharpening I was told by an experienced guy that the Naniwa Professional do not behave the same way the Chosera does (Chosera was described as the better stone in comparision, but remember that it was all relative to sharpening a razor, not a kitchen knife). The number of people mentioning Chosera stones developing cracks in spite of them being used only as S&G is considerable - especially the 5k one


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## Nemo (Feb 7, 2019)

Michi said:


> Oh, yes. Brisbane weather in December and January sucks. It doesn't matter which year. If it's dry, it sucks because it's too hot. If it isn't dry, it sucks because it's too humid. Can't win
> 
> The other ten months of the year it's awesome, though!



Yep, pretty jealous of you guys in July [emoji32]

But now I'm whinging about -4C while people are going through a polar vortex, so I'm feeling pretty silly.


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## Michi (Feb 7, 2019)

Matus said:


> For what it's worth - in a discussion outside KKF about razor sharpening I was told by an experienced guy that the Naniwa Professional do not behave the same way the Chosera does (Chosera was described as the better stone in comparision, but remember that it was all relative to sharpening a razor, not a kitchen knife). The number of people mentioning Chosera stones developing cracks in spite of them being used only as S&G is considerable - especially the 5k one


Thanks for that info!

That sounds like the Professionals aren't exactly the same as the Choseras then, unless the difference is due only to the base (which seems unlikely to me).

So more money for no base, less stone, and possibly extra cracks. Brilliant!


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## Elliot (Feb 7, 2019)

If you're just getting one stone, should probably consider a combo 1k/3k.
I would recommend, at the minimum, considering two stones. 

I got by for a while with just a 1k and a 3k.

Depending on where you are in the world, JNS makes what is a very strong 1k stone. At 3k, you can still find the Chosera on a base on Amazon I am pretty sure. 
If you're in the U.S., I would probably call Jon at JKI to ask his recommendations. One of the nicest dudes in the business and I am sure something he sells in the 1k range is excellent, as is pretty much whatever he carries.


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## Ruso (Feb 7, 2019)

I would not consider JNS 1K as a first stone. Very slow, low feedback - I use it like 1K finisher after more aggressive 800-1K


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## Xenif (Feb 7, 2019)

I think we might've lost the OP about 40 posts ago .... But here are my thoughts: though almost everyone "moves on" from their king 1k at some point, it was also one of the easiest stones to learn on (imho). Its soft, easy to use, forgiving which are good traits to have for someone who has no experience sharpening anything (that me when I started). Once you get the hang of things, that when you want a more aggressive and faster 1k like the Shapton. FWIW, I still have my king 1/6k, the 1k throws on a good base kasumi.


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## Ivan Hersh (Feb 7, 2019)

charlesquik said:


> Nothing wrong with a cheap king 1000/6000 combo. the holder is bad though


Here is what i use it's a great Non Slip Stone holder and is adjustable for length of stones. They are all about the same, so look for the lowest prices my first cost $22 dollars then i found one for $14 dollars.
Same go's for the King 1000/6000 Combo, they run from $25 to $50 on Amazon so look for the selling Vender selling at the lowest prices.


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## galvaude (Feb 7, 2019)

FWIW King stone are not starter stone. Some VERY skilled sharpeners use them. In my experience I enjoy them more with experience than I did when starting.

The dishing is a feature not a fault. Plus, they are not as slow as some people claim, especially not for kitchen knives...

I have Shaptons (Glass and Pro), Choseras, Bester, Super Stones...and 90% I use a King Deluxe 300 and a King Deluxe 1200. The 800 and 1000 is just as great but different grit. They play very nicely with the Suehiro Rika 5000 too.


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## Ivan Hersh (Feb 7, 2019)

galvaude said:


> FWIW King stone are not starter stone. Some VERY skilled sharpeners use them. In my experience I enjoy them more with experience than I did when starting.
> 
> The dishing is a feature not a fault. Plus, they are not as slow as some people claim, especially not for kitchen knives...
> 
> I have Shaptons (Glass and Pro), Choseras, Bester, Super Stones...and 90% I use a King Deluxe 300 and a King Deluxe 1200. The 800 and 1000 is just as great but different grit. They play very nicely with the Suehiro Rika 5000 too.


I have had great luck using my King 1000/6000 Combo, i ordered a King 8000 just to try it not sure i needed it but why not.


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## vicv (Feb 7, 2019)

Agreed. I don't even think dishing is as big of a concern as people make it out to be. I hardly ever flatten any of my Stones. If I was sharpening woodworking tools I can understand the need for a flatter staying Stone. there are other Stones I like more than the king 1000 but there is no huge advantage. Most softer steel knives is a great place to stop sharpening and leaves a good Edge.
Please though you should not mention the king 300 at the same time as the 1000. the 800 1000 and 1200 stones are really in the same category along with the four and six thousand. The 300 is a different Beast entirely and should not be put on the same playing field as be a rest of the stones. It's more akin to the King hyper then it is to the clay based stones. it would be like saying that you don't want to use those crummy chosera Stones because you don't like the traditional line for being too soft


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## Ivan Hersh (Feb 7, 2019)

vicv said:


> Agreed. I don't even think dishing is as big of a concern as people make it out to be. I hardly ever flatten any of my Stones. If I was sharpening woodworking tools I can understand the need for a flatter staying Stone. there are other Stones I like more than the king 1000 but there is no huge advantage. Most softer steel knives is a great place to stop sharpening and leaves a good Edge.
> Please though you should not mention the king 300 at the same time as the 1000. the 800 1000 and 1200 stones are really in the same category along with the four and six thousand. The 300 is a different Beast entirely and should not be put on the same playing field as be a rest of the stones. It's more akin to the King hyper then it is to the clay based stones. it would be like saying that you don't want to use those crummy chosera Stones because you don't like the traditional line for being too soft


I used this Smith Arkansas Med. Stone for around 40+ years before i started reading the forums, it always worked very well as you will notice it's badly worn Dished but it still gets my knives sharp enough.
But i am getting faster and better results using real quality Whet Stones.


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## stringer (Feb 26, 2022)

Ivan Hersh said:


> I used this Smith Arkansas Med. Stone for around 40+ years before i started reading the forums, it always worked very well as you will notice it's badly worn Dished but it still gets my knives sharp enough.
> But i am getting faster and better results using real quality Whet Stones.



I have a very similar one. It leaves a nice enough edge but it is terribly slow to cut and quick to burnish.


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## cotedupy (Feb 28, 2022)

Fwiw - I did a review a few months ago of these kind of misc. Amazon combi stones that come with an angle guide and bamboo holder. Branded or not I’m sure they’re all made in the same place.





__





No-Name-Amazon-Stones Review


I think everyone here can probably guess that 'Cheap Misc. Amazon Combi' stones are not something that you should be rushing out to buy and slot in to your progression among the Naniwas and Suehiros. And though we may have friends or family who've added to the untold fortune of the regrettable...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com





The bamboo holder was surprisingly well made tbf.


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