# Kiyoshi Kato 27cm



## bieniek

[I tried to be just honest here, Im not in any kind of business relationship with Maksim, im just one of customers for last three years or so, im picky and take much of his time, while never buy too much, so not a perfect customer either! Im sure he doesnt like me so im double happy I could order this from him ]

But i promised this detailed review of the knife for Maksim, that doesnt mean i will hide any of my thoughts about the product. I dont want ony of you to buy it, If you feel like 

The knives fat. It really is fat. It also has the sexiest tapering line from heel to tip Ive seen on any blade, maybe apart from the kiritsuke tip yanagi from Suisin [not even the tapering but the way the blade bend upwards]

It is 6mm of steel at where the tang meets the handle, it is 300grams of weight, I didnt measured but I can, and I easily believe its true. 
This takes some time to get used to, and use it to its best potential, but its worth the time. 
Its 55mm tall, and edge length exceeds 27cm. Or it did until I broke the tip like twice already:razz:
I received the knife new, no saya to pick at, decent handle, I really like the burnt chestnut and that its regular D shape. Mounted by Maksim neatly. Nothing to pick at really.

In many ways I think this knife is magic. Read below and youll find out why.

First impressions? **** its heavy. **** its big and heavy. But instantly you get the urge to cut stuff to prove the knife wrong. It must fail, that bastard, and it does not. Very frustrating:lol2:
Immediately Im cutting potato - chop chop job done. "OK, will fry chips tomorrow" I think to myself, and I destroyed 5 more potatoes because of this ******* knife!
Really weir feeling the first time you pick it up.

*The finish*
Many improvements since Ive seen the first ones Maskim had at the june class. The spine is very nicely rounded, oh hell its very good. 
The choil needs more work though, 
The finish of the blade is OK, nothing spectacular. Very very even. 
I think the cladding is very hard, not so soft, cause there was not much difference in colour or surface polish between "jigane" and "hagane", 
and the reactivity is damn low, about which I will write later.
The kanji though, is just amazing. Its done by hand, and I dont have any clue how he does that, but its pleasure to look at. 
I of course dont know what it all means but doesnt matter really. 

The important stuff are

*The Steel*
Its great. It is resistant to my efforts on the stones, even though the knife is quite thin above bevel. 
The cladding is tough, I think, but little thinning to check the grind and it goes well. 
Wouldnt really say you could go for it with a stone, Ive used DMT, and then just polished the scratches out with jns 1k
But thats the weird part about it. Its relatively fast to sharpen, yet retention is amazingly good. 

And I say that after I killed it in one day and chipped the hell out of it with oxtails :scared4:
But when youre not a dumbarse like me, it just stays sharp. I think I used it for four days now, it might be three, I dont remember, but it still can do some damage to my fingertips if i do the 3 fingers test [the same that the 17 th generation helicopter pilot and airborne machine gun shooter uses :shocked3:]

Feedback both when sharpening and when cuttig is really nice and carbon, like its alive.

*The edge*
As i said, this is the only blade I use ohira on. I usually dont, cause I like plenty of bite, but some polish also, especially that I use chefs knife as an allrounder. 
So the second sharpening I just stand there in my kitchen "lalala" sharpen it and dang there it is it just went right through the fingertip just by the gentle touch. I dont really know how it happened, I just thought "oh you mother******" and stropped. 

So I was like yeah its OK edge the one you would call "good enugh" and I went to work the next day, could help mysef but to cut tomato with it - and you know just as i did the first slice... You know not much slicing motion and not much feeling of any resistanceand all that stuff... Ive cut one more slice and stopped there.

*
The Retention*

As above, I measured when I would kill it, and it definitely is possible in one shift. Hitting the bone I guess is not what any kind of cuttig edge likes really, and it reminded me that it still is a kitchen knife, not a bone-saw. [Ive cut those thfrough joint, of course, but you know]
When cutting the regular stuff, at home or at work, it goes down from the initial sharpness very smoothly and slowly, it not like kilo of carrots and huge degradation. 
And I use quite hard plastic board at work.
Another thing is, that apart from these chips there was no microchipping, just like dullness. 
After that, the knife just gets along

*The Performance*

I would lie if i said it does not stick to anything and flies through everything like the sword mr Yoda gave me. Its rubbish. 
True is, that as a matter of fact not much sticks, really. 
But there is stuff, which will stop the blade in motion. Not much though, maybe due to blades weight?
Stuff like really dense potatoes. Stuff like huge onions. 
Stuff that was peeled and soaked in water, wedges. But the blade doesnt stop, nor it changes direction. Its crazy, but if you want to cut straight down thats where this knife is going. 

And plus it has the attitude, you know? Its like its eager to get the job done, happy to cut stuff and thats why I like to pick it and work with it. This is why i like it and give it high notes. It is a true workhorse. 

One more thing I noticed lately was that its not only vegetables, take cooked meats, like pigs side/belly/bacon. Usually a knife would stick a little somewhere along the cut, but this thing just drops down through. 

Little movie and pic of it at work, it was last sunday making the mep for oxtails. The company was closed so there was only me and my mep.

[video=youtube;k7TlQDN8o2g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7TlQDN8o2g&feature=youtu.be[/video]






*The Grind*

Think about it, its a fat slab of metal, yet is cuts amazingly well. You can see the pic here, it shows you how the grind looks like. 
It works just fine if you ask me. 
Not much can add apart from its well done. No high/low spots or stuff. That was the reason I thinned it a bit, to check hows things above edge. All in order. Plus it responded very well to thinning. 
Very even throughout the blade, from heel to tip

The tip is quite thin and it helpes in delicate work, if you have to do it with that sumo wrestler. 






*
The Balance*

Is about 5cm from the handle, very blade heavy, but thats the way I like it actually. 
There is not much force you need to put into cuts, plus the grip is comfortable which makes for great feeling when in use. 
It sounds like This knife is heavy but holding it and working with it you get so good feeback from it, that you easily forget about the size. 

*The Reactivity*

In the Ittetsu review you could read about the parsley chopping, then listen to this. On the sunday I recorded the video about veg chopping, I chopped some parsley as part of mep. It supposed to get used up on monday, but actually I used it on thursday [!] and there was no discoloration at all.
There is some brown colour visibe with onions, but not much smell. You really have to smell the blade to get that its carbon. 
Now, its patinated a little, especially after cutting up some hot chicked and sausage  but really not much.
Totally miles away from Shigefusa.
Is that the steel used or the heat threatment i dont know but it sure works.

*The Conclusion*

I was thinking I dont need much after Shig, but I needed that. 
It can handle everything, be both gentle and aggressive and doesnt stink. 
Not much of any improvment I could want to get in any department 


The finish 7-
The Steel 9++ i dot really want to give it ten cause maybe there somewhere is something even better?
The edge 9
The retention 9+ 
The performance 8+++
The Grind 9
The balance 9
The reactivity 9+

In comparison with Ittetsu










Hope that helps


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## JMac

Great review. Video was impressive for a knife that thick not wedging that carrot.


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## brainsausage

The spine on that thing is crazy! It's very apparent in the vid(nice work btw). I've always wanted a thicker spine on my knives in general, but I've been afraid of the effects on overall performance... Hmmmm... No! I'm finishing the work on my Ichimonji Chukas, getting that suji rehandled, and ordering a custom Ginga chuka- No More Gyutos! Dammit bienek!


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## mainaman

I m waiting on a 240 and will compare to my 240 Shig, so far it looks really promising.


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## bieniek

mainaman said:


> I m waiting on a 240 and will compare to my 240 Shig, so far it looks really promising.



Do that, and share your thoughts, is yours to arrive soon?
I really wonder how its going to get received 



brainsausage said:


> The spine on that thing is crazy! It's very apparent in the vid(nice work btw). I've always wanted a thicker spine on my knives in general, but I've been afraid of the effects on overall performance... Hmmmm... No! I'm finishing the work on my Ichimonji Chukas, getting that suji rehandled, and ordering a custom Ginga chuka- No More Gyutos! Dammit bienek!



Iw wasn't me :whistling:
Thanks


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## bieniek

JMac said:


> Great review. Video was impressive for a knife that thick not wedging that carrot.



Cheers, its impressive knife in many ways  [if only in lean size hehe]


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## mainaman

bieniek said:


> Do that, and share your thoughts, is yours to arrive soon?
> I really wonder how its going to get received


Should get it this week.


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## chuck239

Another great review. When you said you didn't measure it did you mean the weight or thickness? If you get a chance, can you take some measurements of the spine? I'd love to hear what the taper measures just to get a better idea. Thanks again

-Chuck


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## maxim

Thanks for Review  

Here is measurements from my website:
Handle Length- 150mm
Handle Width- 22mm
Handle to Tip Length- 435mm
Heel to Tip Length- 270mm
Blade Height at Heel- 54mm
Width of Spine at Handle- 6mm
Width of Spine Above Heel- 5mm
Width of Spine at Middle- 3mm
Width of Spine 1cm from the tip- 2mm

Weight- 300g


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## bieniek

we dont trust you Maksim... :spiteful:

Chuck I meant the weight. I havent checked at work but the knife is plenty heavy.
I was measuring the blade and the results are almost same as Maksims, If you wish I can write it up. Yeah I will do it.

Oh and sorry for the exxagerated sound effects in the video. I tried to gain it out a little but it came up pretty messed up.


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## bieniek

Heel to Tip Length 271.5mm and I crushed bit of tip 3 times already I would say it took away 1mm alltogether.
Actual edge length 274mm
Blade Height at Heel 54mm
Blade Height midway 52mm
Blade Height inch from tip 21mm
Width of Spine at Handle I would say its not full 6, like 5.5mm 
Width of Spine Above Heel solid 5mm
Width of Spine at Middle 3mm or just tad under
Width of Spine 1 inch from the tip 2mm ad 1cm from the tip 1.5mm

I took the knife for a service today, not that it really asks for it, but have nothing to sharpen today, and just noticed that badass patina Niclas made to the petty so I want to force something sweet to it a hot soup maybe 

The edge now is something my cooworkers would call very sharp, but like 50% to me. still cuts tomato skin just fine.
Today was cutting much veg cubes and fruit and lots of other stuff so much of board contact and you can tell from looking at the edge. 
Still no microchips or any problems.


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## labor of love

great review. and im really impressed with what that knife did in the video.


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## chuck239

Hey, 

I believe maksim. I just can't find the link on his website.... So I didn't know he had the size and everything. Can someone link it? (I have been on my phone due to vacation and travel). Thanks in advance.

-Chuck


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## markenki

Here you go:
240: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/Kato-Yoshiaki-Fujiwara-240mm-Gyuto-p/588.htm
270: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/Kato-Yoshiaki-Fujiwara-270mm-Gyuto-p/589.htm


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## bieniek

So a little update

Found this video, while watching new Jons Suisin video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE_nRlOm7vU&feature=player_embedded#!

I didnt manage to watch the whole thing but interesting name of one of them... hehe

Ad I sharpened the edge again, polished the sides and wanted to do some experimenting with patina. 
Hot stock did almost nothing. I attacked the blade with mustard/vinegar mixture but gave up after 15 mnutes and two layers. It just doesnt seem to work. 

Now I just have to bang the handle on, some one slab of wood for my "workhorse" and make a saya cause its quite dangerous to carry that thing around


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## scott6452

I missed the dhl delivery with my 240 Kato today, now I have to wait until Monday


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## mainaman

scott6452 said:


> I missed the dhl delivery with my 240 Kato today, now I have to wait until Monday


Here in US, Monday is Labor day, it is very possible DHL will not deliver, I'll have to wait till Tuesday to get my Kato petty


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## scott6452

Well after a surprise 8:30pm DHL delivery, the Kato has finally arrived and its a brute! Feels great in hand, i think this thing could chop down trees! Not had a chance to cut anything yet, will post a few thoughts after work tomorrow. 

A little teaser:


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## bieniek

scott6452 said:


> i think this thing could chop down trees!



:rofl2:


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## bieniek

scott6452 said:


> Well after a surprise 8:30pm DHL delivery, the Kato has finally arrived and its a brute! Feels great in hand, i think this thing could chop down trees! Not had a chance to cut anything yet, will post a few thoughts after work tomorrow.
> 
> A little teaser:



Hey how is it going?


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## scott6452

Loving things so far! I havn't had as much use as i'd like but i am very impressed with thi knife. 

Initial impressions of the blade: I was expecting a rough finish with this blade but was pleasantly surprised. The spine is rounded well and blade grind marks even. Handle fit is flawless and the kanji its self is a work of art. The only let down (as i was prepared for) is the choil finish which isnt too big a deal and i will rectify when i can be bothered (a few years away then!). 

First cutting impressions: Well i am another victim of the ever growing "Kato Effect". I sent this thing straight into the deep end and found a nice dense butternut squash for my first cutting experience. I had my only other 240 direct comparison, my tanaka r2 ironwood. I know they are not really in the same category as far as knives go but it may be a useful reference point for some tanaka owners. So, what was the result? Yes, you guessed! Despite having a spine more than twice the thickness of the tanaka, the Kato cut easier . The feeling of the cut is also so much smoother and more positive, perhaps due to the extra blade weight. It is such an addicting feeling, almost buttery?! 

I have not taken the knife to any stones, only gave a few swipes on a borosilicate rod. Even with this small process, i notice the steel feels unlike anything i have tried before. So smooth and silky. Again, i must use the term buttery! The blade has developed a patina quicker than i imagined after reading other reviews. A quick pic after an hours use:






I cant wait to get more use out of this thing and really stretch its legs. I will keep updating as i discover more about this amazingly unique knife. It even had one of the waitresses tonight exclaiming "F*** this thing cuts amazing!" quickly followed by "I can't believe i just got excited about a knife!" Another quick pic of my custom apron knife sheath for the night hehe


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## Von blewitt

Thanks for your thoughts... I have a 270 in the mail, can't wait for it to show up !


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## bieniek

phuck me I want a patina like that. 

Thanks for your thoughts scott, im not crazy at all it seems. 

Im rehadling mine now, and i had to order special extra long drill bit to fit the tang [its 11 cm]. As Im waiting for the drill im using shigefusa as allrounder... well...cant wait


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## gentlecook

2 bienek

how this gyuto for fileting salmons ?
or you have deba for this ?

very intereting knife..

do you use Shige gyuto after got this one ?


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## Von blewitt

My 270mm Kato gyuto just showed up, and I was a little skeptical when I pulled this monster
Out of the box... It is huge!!! But it more then exceeded my expectations! I have never been as impressed with a knife ootb as I am with this! I've only been using it 20 minutes but I'm already getting used to its heft and loving the feeling it gives... It just wants to cut! Also must mention the fast shipping, I ordered it on Friday afternoon and received it today... And I'm in Australia! Thanks Maxim!


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## bieniek

Hehe thats cool  write something up when you destroy some vegetables...

gentlecook I use deba for fish mostly only when superlazy dont pull up the fish board but it never happened yet with kato so dont know.

I use shig now, cause kato is in rehandling and i do saya so it just is waiting and thats why i use shigefusa.
Also was superbusy past week so not much time to fix it, but i cannot wait


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## Von blewitt

Kato Vs Hapuka



[/IMG],



[/IMG]T


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## gentlecook

thanks for reviews and sharing your practice with Yoshiaki Fujiwara's !

270mm and 240mm gyuto has same ~ 6mm thickness at handle ?

2 bienek: 
do you pick ur Kato from rehandling ?


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## bieniek

Thickness means nothing. 

no, im still waiting for the extra long drill bits. Tang is 11cm long. But the handle and saya is ready.


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## bieniek

Von blewitt said:


> Kato Vs Hapuka
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG],
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]T



Damn beautiful fish and what a size.


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## bieniek

So I finally got the drill bits. 






















Oh yeah, first D shape I made. 






Tomorrow Kato is going to action again. Finally.
Yea, the handle is installed little upwards, just how I prefer.


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## gentlecook

so Michal , its super puper handle =) nice wood ferrule !


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## Johnny.B.Good

I can't believe that is the first D-shaped handle you've made; amazing!

I think the handle you made is a big improvement in the looks department (hopefully in the performance department as well).


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## sachem allison

Is that Shig in the first saya upside down?


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## bieniek

yes sir, that is Shig. 

Johnny, thanks a lot. I just looked at the old handle, sanded down those two bits of wood i glued together a little, checked again and sanded some more and so on. It took some time but I like D shape over octagon, so was worth the investment of time, imho. The balance improved now, with the heavier handle.

gentlecook, thanks


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## Von blewitt

I put the handle from my 240 shigefusa gyuto onto my 270 kato, gyuto and the burnt chestnut from kato gyuto onto my kato suji. I think it is a better fit for both



[/IMG]


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## mainaman

Von blewitt said:


> I put the handle from my 240 shigefusa gyuto onto my 270 kato, gyuto and the burnt chestnut from kato gyuto onto my kato suji. I think it is a better fit for both
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]


what are your impressions of the suji as a cutter?


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## Von blewitt

mainaman said:


> what are your impressions of the suji as a cutter?



I love It! It has the same grind as the gyuto but is much thinner, it is still around 5mm at the handle but it tapers down dramatically! Best slicer I've tried.


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## barramonday

The handle change on the sugi makes good sense . I picked up one of these as well and the stock handle is much too narrow for me.


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## Von blewitt

barramonday said:


> The handle change on the sugi makes good sense . I picked up one of these as well and the stock handle is much too narrow for me.



Yeah, I'd say this one is bordering on too big, but a big improvement on the original. How do you like the knife so far?


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## barramonday

I've not used it enough to really comment on the cutting performance.
The grind is very unique almost as though the maker has made a subtle single bevel shape. Its rough as in places and a little bent hopefully this does not increase over time.
I look forward to giving it a good workout .


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## bieniek

OK I supposed to do update on this one, I was talking about it for a month but Christmas and stuff and no time. 

I am still very happy with the blade, but theres one thing a new potential buyers need to know. 

Thinning. 
I just came to think of it after the PA thread, but it all comes together with clear sense. 
This knife is one of the toughest knives to thin effectively. That is both because of the steel, hard cladding, but mostly the grind. This is no toy and to keep it work you have to thin to up to around 2-2.5-3 cm up. That is a lot of work, and time, and it pissess me off a little, cause I just polished mine to near mirror and I know soon comes thinning ruining all that. 
So it is not for looking at, but when was it? :bigeek:


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## schanop

When it was polished to near mirror


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## EdipisReks

bieniek said:


> OK I supposed to do update on this one, I was talking about it for a month but Christmas and stuff and no time.
> 
> I am still very happy with the blade, but theres one thing a new potential buyers need to know.
> 
> Thinning.
> I just came to think of it after the PA thread, but it all comes together with clear sense.
> This knife is one of the toughest knives to thin effectively. That is both because of the steel, hard cladding, but mostly the grind. This is no toy and to keep it work you have to thin to up to around 2-2.5-3 cm up. That is a lot of work, and time, and it pissess me off a little, cause I just polished mine to near mirror and I know soon comes thinning ruining all that.
> So it is not for looking at, but when was it? :bigeek:



sounds like it should be treated like a Heiji, to a certain extent.


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## mpukas

EdipisReks said:


> sounds like it should be treated like a Heiji, to a certain extent.



In all seriousness, how is that any different that any other knife? Even a laser should be thinned to some extent as it's sharpened over time. I agree that the Heiji is a bit unique in that it already has a distinct hamaguri edge on each side, and {as I've come to find out the hard way} it's very important to follow that geometry.


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## EdipisReks

mpukas said:


> In all seriousness, how is that any different that any other knife? Even a laser should be thinned to some extent as it's sharpened over time. I agree that the Heiji is a bit unique in that it already has a distinct hamaguri edge on each side, and {as I've come to find out the hard way} it's very important to follow that geometry.



the Kato is very thick through much of the blade, so it will need to be thinned higher up the blade each time than knives with a thinner section. this is similar to a Heiji, which is also quite thick through much of the blade, though the Heiji has a shinogi line, which does make it easier to follow the geometry.


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## mpukas

EdipisReks said:


> the Kato is very thick through much of the blade, so it will need to be thinned higher up the blade each time than knives with a thinner section. this is similar to a Heiji, which is also quite thick through much of the blade, though the Heiji has a shinogi line, which does make it easier to follow the geometry.



makes sense - thanks


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## heirkb

EdipisReks said:


> the Kato is very thick through much of the blade, so it will need to be thinned higher up the blade each time than knives with a thinner section. this is similar to a Heiji, which is also quite thick through much of the blade, though the Heiji has a shinogi line, which does make it easier to follow the geometry.



It seems that the Kato in the passaround may not be a good reflection of their cutting ability, but if it is, I'd say the Heiji and Kato are a little different. The Heiji could use some thinning, but I never really found it all that necessary, because it was still an awesome cutter. That passaround Kato, on the other hand, _needed_ thinning to be a good cutter. Again, that might be because its grind was significantly modified, but we're not sure of that yet.


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## bieniek

that is what awesome is


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## Patatas Bravas

Maybe. But these kanji are a little bit upside down.


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## bieniek

Its not about the kanji, its about the fact that they are carved by hand


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## bieniek




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## gentlecook

bieniek said:


> that is what awesome is



this is polished blade ?
i mean, polished himself by Polish guy =)


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## bieniek

yes and no 

I polishd it but at work i use the hard side of the sponge [scourer but not metal] to wash the blade after every job. The deeper scratches are what is left after.


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## gentlecook

thinnig of gyuto is done?

whow up the pics! :detective:


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## brainsausage

gentlecook said:


> thinnig of gyuto is done?
> 
> whow up the pics! :detective:



+1


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## gentlecook

Holla guys! 

anyone has Kato suji ?
what you think about knife, not too thick for suji ?
and how much height at the heel ?

thx


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## Von blewitt

gentlecook said:


> Holla guys!
> 
> anyone has Kato suji ?
> what you think about knife, not too thick for suji ?
> and how much height at the heel ?
> 
> thx



This is compared to a konosuke Fujiyama 270 suji



[/IMG]



[/IMG]


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## bieniek

gentlecook said:


> thinnig of gyuto is done?
> 
> whow up the pics! :detective:



Have just bevel sizes, if you can figure it out from these pics: 
[even though I have better camera now the photos suck just as much as they used to]










Ough and gor those who think I exagerate when describing a crushed heel, here ya go!






Now whose fault was that?:O


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## mainaman

bieniek said:


> Have just bevel sizes, if you can figure it out from these pics:
> [even though I have better camera now the photos suck just as much as they used to]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ough and gor those who think I exagerate when describing a crushed heel, here ya go!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now whose fault was that?:O


interesting wonder how did that happen


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## brainsausage

Jeezus Mike! And I thought I was rough on my knives...


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## gentlecook

thx for answer guys!



this is scratches from thinning on stones?

*to Von blewitt*:
how much height at the heel in mm?

thx


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## bieniek

Yes







Here too, even though very faint.
That is what I meant that thinning of this thing might get problematic. 






[if this is katos grind]
Bacause to thin it effectively you have to go over the most thick part which is in the middle of height.


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## EdipisReks

bieniek said:


> Now whose fault was that?:O



something very similar happened to the tip of my Shig, today, when i got distracted and knocked the tip agains the side of the stone. it's all fixed, now. and better than it was, as the tip had gotten kinda high, and this was a good excuse to fix it.


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## bieniek

Mainaman it was well altogether too much bashing I suppose. 

The heelest chip was my friend who just took the knife to cut one sausage and when putting it down, bashed the heel off.

The rest is on me. When chopping maybe?:yammer:


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## bieniek

Josh, I am not rough on my knivez at all. :spiteful:

But they are tools.


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## bieniek

EdipisReks said:


> something very similar happened to the tip of my Shig, today, when i got distracted and knocked the tip agains the side of the stone. it's all fixed, now. and better than it was, as the tip had gotten kinda high, and this was a good excuse to fix it.



I think I chipped all possible parts of Shig already. Maybe not the heel.:rofl2:
No big deal. 

The chip around 8cm from the tip actually helped me flattening the edge profile near the tip, where it turns upwards quite a bit in a new Shig.


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## Von blewitt

gentlecook said:


> thx for answer guys!
> 
> 
> 
> this is scratches from thinning on stones?
> 
> *to Von blewitt*:
> how much height at the heel in mm?
> 
> thx



39mm


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## brainsausage

bieniek said:


> Josh, I am not rough on my knivez at all. :spiteful:
> 
> But they are tools.



+1


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