# Shinko Seilan, best valued K&S offering so far



## pkjames (Mar 13, 2017)

Hi fellow KKFer,

Another exciting product announcement!
I finally got my hands on the much loved Shiro Kamo KU blades, in Aogami Super with soft iron clad: a full on carbon blade by the Takefu master. This line is a direct result from feedbacks provided by customer like you. I understand that you like the performance of a the Kamo R2 but some of you still prefer the cutting feedback of carbon, so I asked for a full line of KU blades from Kamo-san, and after a few months, they are finally here.

So what is the fuss about this KU line?

I call this line Shinko Seilan. Shinko is my house brand and Seilan (&#38738;&#23706 literally transalte to Blue Mist (&#23706;: mist from the mountain). Blue being it has a Aogami Super core and Mist being this line is quie nimble and on the lighter side of things and in Echizen you can see a lot of this mist emerging from the mountains when travelling along the freeway. 
Aogami super core is widely used at Takefu and treated to around HRC 62. Soft iron clad in KU means it is easy on the stones yet less reactive.
I opted for the K&S ebony / black horn octagonal handle, as I just prefer it than the standard rosewood / pakkawood combo even that means increased cost for me
It is CHEAP!

Hope you enjoy the line guys! You can check out the knives here:
http://www.knivesandstones.com/shinko-seilan-ku-aogami-super/


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## pkjames (Mar 13, 2017)

I recorded all the specs of the knives but was interrupted before I was able to update them, sorry, i will update them tomorrow. 

My thoughts about the line?
They have quite a pronounced distal taper. Spine thickness is between 2.5 to 3mm at the heel and tapers quickly to about 1.5mm in the middle before reaching to 1.1mm at 1cm from the tip. I'd say this line is closer to the laser side of things but not a true laser as the 240 Gyuto still weights at about 210g. I opted to use Yanagi handles to balanced the knife, resulting in a very nimble combination.


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## pkjames (Mar 13, 2017)

And this is the Mist that I was referring to, taken on my trip back from Takefu to Osaka in Feb this year.


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## guari (Mar 13, 2017)

Great, good luck with the new line James


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## tcfarrar (Mar 13, 2017)

I own the 270 kiritsuke gyuto and it's a fun knife! Absolutely flies through anything.


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## Matus (Mar 13, 2017)

Cool, I would be interested in the height & weight of the Nakiri, if possible.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Mar 13, 2017)

Is AS at such low HT markedly superior to the Aogami 2 used in eg. the Eden Kanso line?


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## labor of love (Mar 13, 2017)

@matus I've owned one of these knives before and they're taller than average, maybe 53-54mm ish. This line has a fantastic flat profile too. Very very good deal. I remember comparing this knife side by side with masakage koishi and I sold the koishi because I liked these more.


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## Nemo (Mar 13, 2017)

Nice work James. These look like great value.

Is the grind on the wide bevel flat or convex?

I assume that at this price, they don't come with the k&s spine and choil treatment?

@ Life: I'm also intrigued by the relitavely conservative HT for AS. I assume that it is generously tempered to improve toughness? AS should theoretically be more abrasion resistant than B2 so possibly better edge retention at the same hardness? All theoretical of course.


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## JBroida (Mar 13, 2017)

honestly, i would guess that most HRC figures are inflated (even what the makers tell us often), so this is likely closer to reality for many


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Mar 13, 2017)

@JBroida ironically, that kind of honesty would create even more confusion if somebody looked for a tougher, less chip prone AS knife  However, if this is indeed a more conservative HT than most, the question is how does it compare to the same makers Ao2 (often offered at the same HRC, see the Kansos...) in board stamina?

BTW, have you a durometer?


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## pkjames (Mar 13, 2017)

JBroida said:


> honestly, i would guess that most HRC figures are inflated (even what the makers tell us often), so this is likely closer to reality for many



+1


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## tcfarrar (Mar 13, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Nice work James. These look like great value.
> 
> Is the grind on the wide bevel flat or convex?
> 
> ...



The grind on the wide bevel is concaved (hollow ground) which makes it super thin behind the edge. 
Fit and finish is pretty good on mine, nothing sharp and all nicely rounded.


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## pkjames (Mar 13, 2017)

The only solid number that I have is from sukenari which they actually have lab testing results of their hardness, as per my sukenari visit blog. They HT the aogami super to hrc65+

Takefu treat them a bit lower, 62 to 64 and probably in the lower side as I was told.

That is the reason I bought on of those hardness tester but I haven't had time to set it up yet.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Mar 13, 2017)

@pkjames and a true 65+ HRC might not the best to be maintainable razor sharp if used on a board - have their ZDP, and do not find it that many miles ahead of good white steel in practice in that regard ... 

I guess 62 AS (doesn't Takeda do it that way to?) has a lot of dreadnaught potential - is it used well here?


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## aboynamedsuita (Mar 13, 2017)

This is a really good deal, kinda want as a J-nat testing knife


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## Nemo (Mar 13, 2017)

aboynamedsuita said:


> This is a really good deal, kinda want as a J-nat testing knife



Will it work for that if the grind is concave?


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## aboynamedsuita (Mar 13, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Will it work for that if the grind is concave?



Ahh I missed that, I suppose you could eventually but it'd be a shame to pointlessly grind away a perfectly good knife.


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## pkjames (Mar 13, 2017)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @pkjames and a true 65+ HRC might not the best to be maintainable razor sharp if used on a board - have their ZDP, and do not find it that many miles ahead of good white steel in practice in that regard ...
> 
> I guess 62 AS (doesn't Takeda do it that way to?) has a lot of dreadnaught potential - is it used well here?



That depends again on the situation. I have a couple of chefs working in a BBQ restaurant that need to process a lot of meat in a day. Guys told me their white 2 will last for half of the shift where a ZDP can last for 2 shifts so they all changed to ZDP189 for that reason. I can imagine they don't really need to touch the board often.

I suppose HT a particular steel in different ways (hardness) is a preference to a particular maker / region.


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## foody518 (Mar 13, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Will it work for that if the grind is concave?



But it'll get flattened out eventually through sharpening anyways, no?


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## Nemo (Mar 13, 2017)

Yes, but in the meantime would jnat mud get into the convexity or would you need som other technique?


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## foody518 (Mar 13, 2017)

The concavity? You probably wouldn't have good results getting an even finish with any concavity remaining if you wanted to finish finer. Sometimes, *really* muddy softer stones can help you cheat a bit on that


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## Nemo (Mar 13, 2017)

Sorry yes I meant concavity.


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## cain47 (Mar 14, 2017)

Interesting line. I'm curious as to how does the grind compare to the r2 line you carry on your website? 
Regards 
K


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## v647c (Mar 23, 2017)

Picked up the 270mm suji. Been having fun with it the last few days. Feels slightly harder than Kurosaki's AS. Very nice heel height on this. Got it mainly for portioning cooked and raw meats, but I've been using it on lots other stuff. Edge retention seems pretty good after slicing lots of crusty meats, and chopping random produce, but it hasn't been long enough for me to form a proper opinion. Took it to the stones because there I could feel a bit of drag from the jigane finish on the bevel. Concavity was pretty minor, nothing that couldn't be hidden with lots of mud. Honestly can't believe I bought a knife this good for less than $220AUD. 

http://m.imgur.com/a/v8NM4


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## Godslayer (Mar 23, 2017)

v647c said:


> Picked up the 270mm suji. Been having fun with it the last few days. Feels slightly harder than Kurosaki's AS. Very nice heel height on this. Got it mainly for portioning cooked and raw meats, but I've been using it on lots other stuff. Edge retention seems pretty good after slicing lots of crusty meats, and chopping random produce, but it hasn't been long enough for me to form a proper opinion. Took it to the stones because there I could feel a bit of drag from the jigane finish on the bevel. Concavity was pretty minor, nothing that couldn't be hidden with lots of mud. Honestly can't believe I bought a knife this good for less than $220AUD.
> 
> http://m.imgur.com/a/v8NM4



Those ribeyes and that knife, is that what heaven looks like I wonder


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## trvn (Mar 25, 2017)

I got the 240mm k-tip and i'm very happy with it. My first k-tip, the flat spot must be half the blade at least! Makes chopping up veggie a lot of fun


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## DanDan (Apr 27, 2017)

So... just for the purpose of searching reviews, these are the exact same blades offered by another vendor under "Shiro Kamo AS" (for much more money)? These are super attractive to me and look great with the K&S ebony, which is one of my favourites. And the k-tip looks like one of the best value I've seen. It'd be tough choosing which one.


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## pkjames (Apr 27, 2017)

I haven't used the other vendor's Kamo AS version so I can't comment, hopefully someone with more experience can give their thoughts.


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## doudou (Apr 28, 2017)

i think i am the first one get this knive in CHINA and i also get a special handle upgrade from JAMES which make the blance point is perfectly upfron the pinch grip a little bit. the flat belly is really amzing and that makes my preps work a lot of fun on pull/push cut. and also the gentel curve on the tips will allows you do fantastic rocking jobs as well. all in all this is good knive at it's price range.


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