# Pro Kitchen Work Horse Knife



## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 17, 2011)

What did you guys use to use, and what are you using now? Which knife (if any) has been consistently a good performer and why? 

M


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## El Pescador (Dec 17, 2011)

Devin Thomas mystery steel carbon gyuto. All the things you could want in a work knife...long lasting edge, great profile and thin behind the edge, and patinaed so it doesn't look like much. Chef Niloc has it now and I am waiting to see if he feels the same.


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## Cookin808 (Dec 18, 2011)

Hiramoto AS 240mm gyuto. Great sharpening properties but with enough heft behind the blade to really run it hard in the kitchen. I got a Devin 240mm AEB-L before the price increase but have yet to commit it to a life of hard labor.


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## sachem allison (Dec 18, 2011)

Marko Tsourkan said:


> What did you guys use to use, and what are you using now? Which knife (if any) has been consistently a good performer and why?
> 
> M


My favorite for years was and old 9inch carbon Sabatier one of the originals from the late 1870's, Then I switched to a hundred year old Carbon Henckels, Then a 240mm Hiromoto Hc. Now I'm rotating the set Randy made me and a set that Del made me in AEB-L. Hopefully, I can add a Marko set to my list one day.:thumbsup:

The thing that I love about them is there ease of sharpening and ability to attain super insanely sharp edges, even the old vintage ones. I love the triangular profile of the Sabatier and even the older Henckels had a similar triangular profile, not like today's German knives. I can't explain why I love the Hiromoto, I just do. It's still early to tell if I Randy's or Del's will be a great love affair. Right now I am crushing pretty bad though.


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## kalaeb (Dec 18, 2011)

I have been using a John Jones cleaver (bullet proof) for most of my veggie prep, plus some chicken. And as much as I hate to admit it, my Carter 7.9 sun funyaki, which at the beginnig I did not care for, it right up there for usage. 

If I go anywhere near the line I use my Fuji 240 FKH (The carter tip is too fragile.) 

I have no doubt that my DT's would perform miraculously, but I am over protective of them so I keep them at home, the San Mai gyuto is my number 1 at home, which still gets used pretty hard at home. 

When I get one of yours (AMT) it will get a proper workout in both kitchens.


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## mattrud (Dec 18, 2011)

interesting question Marko  

I dt itk is a good go to for a work horse recently, I used to use a masamoto western gytuo quite a bit. I also have used my konosuke white 1 as a work horse. I like all of them and some others.


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## NO ChoP! (Dec 18, 2011)

Henckels to a Mac, to a Takeda, to a Konosuke HD as my most recent go-to knife... lots of others in between, but these are the stand outs through the years.


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## JKerr (Dec 18, 2011)

27cm JCK Carbonext. Was an awesome knife when I got it and still is. I've since switched primarily to cleavers and go between a sugimoto #6 and a Hattori FH. Personally I prefer the profile on the Sugimoto, but the Hattori does take a great edge, holds it and is surprisingly easy to sharpen for VG-10.

Got a new gyuto coming from Aframes soon though, so this may change again


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## Chef Niloc (Dec 18, 2011)

El Pescador said:


> Devin Thomas mystery steel carbon gyuto. All the things you could want in a work knife...long lasting edge, great profile and thin behind the edge, and patinaed so it doesn't look like much. Chef Niloc has it now and I am waiting to see if he feels the same.


All that's true.
I thought it was just a carbon ITK at first, I commented that it put holes in hoss's statement that his stainless out performs carbon, then he told me it wasn't just a carbon ITK. So the knife passed a blinded test, supper fine totally carbon edge....great knife.

To answer the question of what did I use back in te day:
For the first 10 years of my pro life I used a set of Thiers-Issard's a cheep Chinese cleaver and a yanagi that i still to this day have no idea who made it. I got it at korin in 1990 payed $195.00 for it. So as far as the test of time goes I'd say they held up pretty well.

And I still stand true to my statement that my Burke Suji is the best performing kitchen knife in the world, beats other Burks.

Out of all the cleavers I have had I hate to say it but M.C. Has made the best.


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## bieniek (Dec 18, 2011)

Hiromoto AS is cheap and good. Everything is quite decent in that knife. 

Misono Swedish is even better, the grind and thickness beats hiro in my opinion. I like it better.
That is why ive made my hiro go on diet.


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## Lefty (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm not a pro, but back when I worked at the restaurant, Sabs were the stars, with Fibrox Forschners and no name cleavers getting honorable mention.
As far as a factory knife is concerned, I'd give Misono Swedes my vote, but I never used mine in that setting, so I can't be sure. Toughness ability to get toothy sharp go a long way.


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## Chef Niloc (Dec 18, 2011)

Just a sentimental thank you. When I bought my first set out of culinary school (the Thiers-Issard 's) there was Ltd. Ed. Gilles Reynewaeter Diamant/ Flower Set that I really wanted but could not afford, $1000 for the set. I from time to time over the years looked for them to pop up on eBay. Last night after reading this post it prompted me to check out eBay. What do you know, found them. I know these are hardly "the best knives" and will become my first set of draw queens, but it's a sentimental thing.
Thank you
Colin


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## youkinorn (Dec 18, 2011)

I've been thinking about this, too.

Considering either a Moritaka or Zakuri in AS. Anyone have measurements or comments about those choices? Is AS a good steel choice for this type of workhorse knife?


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## shankster (Dec 18, 2011)

I recently made the switch from a Moritaka 240mm blue #2 to a Konosuke HD 240mm as my main knife and couldn't be happier.
I'd recommend the HD to anyone in a pro environment.Super thin,sharpens up real nice and keeps it's edge even after hours of abuse on a crappy poly board.No patina or discolouration or transfer of odors or flavours and it's virtually stainless(unlike my Moritaka).


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## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 18, 2011)

shankster said:


> I recently made the switch from a Moritaka 240mm blue #2 to a Konosuke HD 240mm as my main knife and couldn't be happier.
> I'd recommend the HD to anyone in a pro environment.Super thin,sharpens up real nice and keeps it's edge even after hours of abuse on a crappy poly board.No patina or discolouration or transfer of odors or flavours and it's virtually stainless(unlike my Moritaka).



How does HD fare doing a large amount of prep cutting? Wouldn't a thicker knife be a better choice for an all-around knife (I understand these are personal preferences)? I handled HD briefly (didn't cut with it) but in my recollection, it was a very thin and light knife, even for 270mm length. In my mind it was more a task-specific (great cutter, more control etc) knife than an all-around knife.

M


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## shankster (Dec 18, 2011)

Honestly,it blows me away every time I use her.Because she's so I thin I initially though I'd have to baby her,but I was wrong,From hard butternut squash to tuna loin without batting an eye.A very robust knife indeed.


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## stevenStefano (Dec 18, 2011)

I recently bought a 270 Western Konosuke HD and I like it a lot. I have read the Western is a little thicker than the wa and if so I am glad I got the Western, it seems about perfect to me. Not too thick or thin. It sorta reminds me of my Masamoto KS in how well it cuts but I think the edge retention is much much better and of course I don't have to look after it so well. I have been using it and a 210 petty for a while now and it's the perfect combo for me


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## tk59 (Dec 18, 2011)

Is it a lefty version?


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## stevenStefano (Dec 18, 2011)

tk59 said:


> Is it a lefty version?



Am I right (ha!) in thinking a lefty version would have a slightly more convex left face than the right? I tried for ages to take a photo and my phone is incapable. I am not sure to be honest, it could be but Ill try and take a photo tomorrow with a better camera. I am a lefty and I haven't really noticed one way or the other


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## aaronsgibson (Dec 18, 2011)

For me I find that carbon/stainless works well. Kind of the best of both worlds.


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## ThEoRy (Dec 18, 2011)

I would've thought I'd heard more tkc clone, carbonext or massamoto ks comments. And though I do love my Kono HD I don't like walking the board with her. I can hear the edge crying out to me. I sharpen her 90/10 though so maybe it's me.


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## ajhuff (Dec 18, 2011)

Seems like Hiromoto, Konosuke and Sabatier are leading the charge. Interesting.

-AJ


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## shankster (Dec 18, 2011)

"And though I do love my Kono HD I don't like walking the board with her."
Interesting comment.I let my boss use my Kono to chop some herbs the other day(a moment of weakness),and I was cringing the whole time she was using it.I could hear the edge crying out to me as well .
With a blade so thin there's a slight learning curve(for me anyway).A lighter touch is called for with this lady...


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## K-Fed (Dec 18, 2011)

ajhuff said:


> Seems like Hiromoto, Konosuke and Sabatier are leading the charge. Interesting.
> 
> -AJ



Interesting indeed as I use all three as my regular work knives.


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## cnochef (Dec 18, 2011)

Ichimonji TKC 270mm, with rounded choil and spine. It has perfect balance, thinness, takes a great edge, stays sharp and has a great profile that allows me to use it for slicing instead of switching off to a suji.

Luckily I have enough room to use a 270 as my go to knife.


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## mdoublestack (Dec 19, 2011)

In recent years I've gone from a "10 Forschner Chef to "10 wusthoff Classic, then a "9.5 Mac Pro Chef, then a 240mm Hiromoto AS Gyuto then to what I have used the last 1.5 years, my 240mm Mizuno Tanrejo hontranen Gyuto. It is simply the BEST work horse there is.


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## bieniek (Dec 19, 2011)

The Misono Swedish is also very very thin behing the edge and not so much more thick at the spine.


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## jgraeff (Dec 24, 2011)

shankster said:


> "And though I do love my Kono HD I don't like walking the board with her."
> Interesting comment.I let my boss use my Kono to chop some herbs the other day(a moment of weakness),and I was cringing the whole time she was using it.I could hear the edge crying out to me as well .
> With a blade so thin there's a slight learning curve(for me anyway).A lighter touch is called for with this lady...



Yes i find that this will ruin my edge pretty fast as well. Also i have a rougher touch when chopping so i tend to have to touch my HD up more often than id like. Also find the 240 a bit too flexible for certain things like rutabageas and butternut squash. If it was a tad thicker it would be the perfect knife. Currently looking at another option, Heiji, or a custom.


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## memorael (Dec 24, 2011)

I used to use a Susin Inox honyaki, the knife with a king 6k edge would do all the things I wanted it too in a days shift. I sharpened every night but if for some reason I didn't the knife lasted about 3 shifts to my standards. Then I would sharpen again.


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## Adamm (Dec 26, 2011)

misono sweedish, i got my gyuto almost 4 years ago, its still my go to knife.


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## chazmtb (Dec 26, 2011)

M,

I'll send you my TKC to try when I send yours back from my trial. I have had a lot of knives, and I go back to that baby every time. You can send it back to me with the Shigies.


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## Marko Tsourkan (Dec 27, 2011)

Sounds good.


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## BraisedorStewed (Dec 27, 2011)

My first J-knife was a masamoto VC, but it was just a bit too reactive for an all rounder. Now I use a 300mm Hiromoto AS Gyuto mostly, I thinned it a bit and it is already quite thin behind the edge, I like the height of the knife and the flat edge profile, though it is not actually flat for more than a half inch, the slow upsweep to the tip is nearly perfect. My second choice is a 270 TKC, but it just feels a bit small most of the time.

Drew


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## hambone.johnson (Jan 2, 2012)

I Love my Hattorii HF - VG-10 240mm. its a little shorter at the heel now as ive taken a bit of the blade down with sharpening but its profile is awesome and i thinned one side so it sharpens to a solid 90/10. the edge stays toothy and it really blows through knife prep for me. I wish it didnt flex so much at the tip but i dont notice it so much anymore after 4 years of ownership. 

My Konosuke HD is close behind, i wish i had the 270 (actually probably 260ish) and not the 240 i bought (actually a 230ish) I just need to find the right angle and grit combination to really bring the steel out and get that toothy sharp work grind i like. But both knives haul through a work day for me


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## JohnnyChance (Jan 2, 2012)

hambone.johnson said:


> My Konosuke HD is close behind, i wish i had the 270 (actually probably 260ish) and not the 240 i bought (actually a 230ish) I just need to find the right angle and grit combination to really bring the steel out and get that toothy sharp work grind i like. But both knives haul through a work day for me



If you like tooth, sharpen on a 400-600 grit stone, deburr, then lightly finish on a 6k-8k to refine the edge a bit and remove any remaining wire edge. You can strop afterwards too, but it should be something in the 1-2 micron grit range, any less wont really accomplish much. If you like toothy then this should work great for ya.


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## Sarge (Jan 2, 2012)

JohnnyChance said:


> If you like tooth, sharpen on a 400-600 grit stone, deburr, then lightly finish on a 6k-8k to refine the edge a bit and remove any remaining wire edge. You can strop afterwards too, but it should be something in the 1-2 micron grit range, any less wont really accomplish much. If you like toothy then this should work great for ya.



+1 to this. I usually go 1.2k King to the Kitayama though, but super great toothy refined combo


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## Miles (Jan 3, 2012)

Right now I'm using a thinned Kikuichi 240 Carbon Elite gyuto, Yoshihiro 240 wa handled, Misono Swedish 240 suji, Kikuichi VG10 honesuki, and a Mac chef series filet/boning knife. I keep them touched up at work with a Mac ceramic steel. I'm a big fan of the Kikuichi and the Yoshihiro. I've probably been using the Yoshi a bit more of late than the Kikuichi, but they've both been excellent performers. The Kikuichi has been in my work kit for the better part of two and a half years which is saying something. The Misono is my only short suji. It replaced another 270 carbon, but it's a better fit for my workspace. I'd happily add one of their 270 or 300 sujis to my batterie. I have nicer knives but I generally prefer less expensive ones in my work kit, that way if anything might happen to any of them, I wouldn't be (completely) heartbroken.


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## hambone.johnson (Jan 3, 2012)

JohnnyChance said:


> If you like tooth, sharpen on a 400-600 grit stone, deburr, then lightly finish on a 6k-8k to refine the edge a bit and remove any remaining wire edge. You can strop afterwards too, but it should be something in the 1-2 micron grit range, any less wont really accomplish much. If you like toothy then this should work great for ya.





Sarge said:


> +1 to this. I usually go 1.2k King to the Kitayama though, but super great toothy refined combo





Thanks for both the recomendations, I went with my Choseras, 700 to get a burr, quick deburr then a quick pass on the 2k to bring it a little more refined but only maybee 3 passes on each side, focusing on being smooth with my strokes and progressive along the edge as i went from heel to tip. I also changed my angle which i think has been my problem for a bit. I was going shallow, probably 15 degrees or 16, but i move to 18.5 degrees and the steel seemed to be more reactive to the stone combo. (i use an EP and an angle cube so my measurements are exact) felt good during prep time today, still not my favorite knife, that has more to do with geo, but if i can get the edge more to my liking it will take some of the lesser prep days away from the hattorri. 

-J


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