# French professional need a sujihiki



## Brieuc (Nov 11, 2021)

Hi everyone. It's been awhile.
Excuse my english. 

It's been a longtime since i'm waiting to buy a sujihiki I really need one. I'm using my mac aus8 210mm to filet big fish and i'm only using it on for this purpose (more than 2.5 kg fish) and a takamura r2 150mm for small fish as mackerel (perfect knife btw). I'm considering since i'm improving my skills to buy a sujihiki. And i need a stainless one for intensive work. 
Your help will be highly considered.



LOCATION
What country are you in?
FRANCE


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

SLICER SUJIHIKI. 
Are you right or left handed?
RIGHT

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
I PREFER WESTERN BUT JAPANESE IS OK
What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240MM
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
YES
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

300. I FOUND A MIURA SG2 240MM FOR 210€ BUT I DONT KNOW THESE BRAND. WOULD BE PERFECT AROUND 200

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
FILETING FISH OR FINAL CUTING BEFORE SERVING MEAT

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
NO ONE EXCEPT A MAC AUS 8 210 MM THAT I USE TO FILET BIG FISH AS SALMON AND BAR 
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Regular wood western grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) I cut fish with suji filet meat and sometimes vegetable

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
I want a great steal
Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I'm not found of damascus layering and hamer pattern
Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
BALANCED NOT TO LIGHT BUT SG2 IN MY OPINION WITH TAKAMURA ARE LIGHT AND I LIKE THEM
Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
TAKAMURA R2 KNIFE GOT FOR ME THE PERFECT BALANCE BETWEEN EDGE RETENTION DURABILITY AND WEIGHT. MAYBE IT DOES NOT FIT WITH A SUJI IDK WAITING FOR YOUR OPINIONS
Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
AS I SAID SG2 STEAL GOT A NICE EDGE RETENTION



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
I USE SYNTHETHIC CUTING BOARD 
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
YES
If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
NO JUST NEEAD A 220 GRIT STONE AND 8000 GRIT STONE TO COMPLETE MY SET THAT GOES FROM 300 TO 6000 GOT LEATHER WITH 8000 GRIT PASTE WAITING TO BUY THE BARK RIVER 10 000 WHITE GRIT PASTE WHEN I WILL HAVE MY 8000 STONE


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I FOUND A MIURA 240 SG2 FOR 200€ MAYBE ITS ALREADY A GOOD CHOICE. MAYBE A GINSANKO HANDMADE KNIFE WOULD BE GREAT IDK. 270 MM SEAMS TO BE TOO BIG FOR ME SINCE I HAVE A 240 MM MUNETOSHI CARBON STEAL THAT SEEMS TO BE THE MAXIMUM SIZE MY HAND CAN HANDLE. I'M 179 CM AND 75 KG WEIGHT. 


Thank you all waiting for your suggestion and open for the conversation have a nice weekend.


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## KO88 (Nov 11, 2021)

What about that kaeru slicer Kaeru Slicer 195mm
I know it s not suji but might work for you...
Also Kaeru make stainless suji but not sure if they make 240...


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## stringer (Nov 11, 2021)

I have two Ashi Ginga sujihikis. A 270 in White #2 and a 210 in stainless. Japanese handles though they are available in western sometimes. I love them both. The 270 has skinned many many sides of salmon. I don't find edge retention to be that big of a concern with slicers. They damage slow and are quick to touch up. The 270 in the US is right around $300, so maybe at the upper end of your price range but well worth it. A couple of caveats: the grind is fairly assymetric if that bothers you. It's on the laser end so there is some flexibility. It's not too whippy but it's not super rigid either. Probably ideal for my fish filleting style, but you are you.


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## Brieuc (Nov 11, 2021)

KO88 said:


> What about that kaeru slicer Kaeru Slicer 195mm
> I know it s not suji but might work for you...
> Also Kaeru make stainless suji but not sure if they make 240...




Hey thank you for the answer. In fact the kaeru slicer seems to be an excellent buy that was on my list. But i think for the moment i need a bigger one. This an excellent suggestion thank you.


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## Brieuc (Nov 11, 2021)

stringer said:


> I have two Ashi Ginga sujihikis. A 270 in White #2 and a 210 in stainless. Japanese handles though they are available in western sometimes. I love them both. The 270 has skinned many many sides of salmon. I don't find edge retention to be that big of a concern with slicers. They damage slow and are quick to touch up. The 270 in the US is right around $300, so maybe at the upper end of your price range but well worth it. A couple of caveats: the grind is fairly assymetric if that bothers you. It's on the laser end so there is some flexibility. It's not too whippy but it's not super rigid either. Probably ideal for my fish filleting style, but you are you.




Thank you stringer for your answer. 

In fact i think its easyer to find a carbon steel suji than a stainless steal suji. I think and it's my opinion after 5 years in the business that carbon steal are not fit in a professionnal environment since it easily rust and can break easily. So carbon steal are not anymore my favorite steel (i started with carbon steal contrarely to all my collegue and it was hard for me to maintain them clean and sharp and i broke two of them by letting one fall and the other it was a chef who use one to filet an hare. Also it rust by itself when you vapor cook)


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## stringer (Nov 11, 2021)

Brieuc said:


> Thank you stringer for your answer.
> 
> In fact i think its easyer to find a carbon steel suji than a stainless steal suji. I think and it's my opinion after 5 years in the business that carbon steal are not fit in a professionnal environment since it easily rust and can break easily. So carbon steal are not anymore my favorite steel (i started with carbon steal contrarely to all my collegue and it was hard for me to maintain them clean and sharp and i broke two of them by letting one fall and the other it was a chef who use one to filet an hare. Also it rust by itself when you vapor cook)



Like I said they are available in stainless too. But I don't find carbon to be a disadvantage for a slicer. I've been cooking in a professional environment since 2005. I've tried a lot of slicers, yanagis, sujis, etc. I consider Ashi Ginga to be the gold standard and it was I recommend to my line cooks. My carbon 270 is probably 5 years old. And while I was working in big hotels it saw a lot of business (daily 500-1000 person buffets) and performed amazingly.


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## Brieuc (Nov 11, 2021)

stringer said:


> Like I said they are available in stainless too. But I don't find carbon to be a disadvantage for a slicer. I've been cooking in a professional environment since 2005. I've tried a lot of slicers, yanagis, sujis, etc. I consider Ashi Ginga to be the gold standard and it was I recommend to my line cooks. My carbon 270 is probably 5 years old. And while I was working in big hotels it saw a lot of business (daily 500-1000 person buffets) and performed amazingly.



Infortunately i haven't found an ashi ginga in the french market for the moment but this is true that they seems pretty solid.


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## Brieuc (Nov 11, 2021)

Someone have an advice about this knife brand ? Miura Ka 2600 ? Seems cheap for a sg2 where is the wolf ? Japanese sujihiki knife MIURA Powder steel Sg-2 Size:24cm


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## Jovidah (Nov 12, 2021)

Brieuc said:


> Hey thank you for the answer. In fact the kaeru slicer seems to be an excellent buy that was on my list. But i think for the moment i need a bigger one. This an excellent suggestion thank you.


@JayS20 has used the Kaeru slicer in a pro environment for a while; if you're interested he should be able to tell you more.



Brieuc said:


> Infortunately i haven't found an ashi ginga in the french market for the moment but this is true that they seems pretty solid.


There's no EU retailer for Ashi. The only one within Europe is Damastmesser handgeschmiedete Kochmesser Schleifsteine.
I've usually bought from ebay vendor Bluewayjapan; BluewayJapan | eBay Stores
He's been around for a while and has a good reputation for being a reliable vendor, and in my calculations was always the most affordable (due to high shipping costs from the US). 

All Ashi knives come in basically 4 versions; carbon wa handle, carbon western handle, stainless wa handle, stainless western handle. The only major downside is that they constantly sell out everywhere.

No clue about the SG2 but it looks similar to a knife that also popped up on Hitohira; seems to be a new OEM knife.


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## Brieuc (Nov 12, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> No clue about the SG2 but it looks similar to a knife that also popped up on Hitohira; seems to be a new OEM knife.



Thank you Jovidah for the answer. I'm definitly not a connaisseur . Are OEM counterfet product ? It looks a bit risky to buy those i should maybe increase my spending to 250 € and forgot to have a decent stainless for 200 €. I really like sg2 but maybe i should go for a vg10. Never tried ginsanko knife I was a bit excited to try these steel.
I'll watch the ebay resseler and reconsider my target.


As I said I need a 240 mm for fileting. But i never used 270mm knives and less again 300mm . At the end i should have 150mm for small fish 19.5 for medium 24 for big. And a 270 or 300 when i will feel ready but i dont know for what use they are except for final cutting sashimi in front of customer to show off. For the moment I dont understand why everyone is telling that 240mm are too small. I should start an other topic.


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## Jovidah (Nov 12, 2021)

No by OEM I just mean that it's made by some manufacturer who will put whatever brand on it a customer asks for. So when something's an OEM knife, the 'brand' on it doesn't really say much; you'll see the same knife popping up in different places and it _might_ be the exact same knife... or it might not.
Doesn't have to mean it's bad; a lot of them are actually a great bang for the buck. Definitly not counterfeit; the main issue is just that it's a bit harder to establish who actually makes it, so you have much less of a frame of reference about what to expect when it comes to performance.
Personally I wouldn't obsess too much over the steel, especially when the knife might be a gamble in all other aspects.

There's some people here who can tell you sensible things about what length to use for filleting big fish, but I'm not one of them.  I'm one of those people who always prefer to leave the skin on if possible, and as a home user the largest fish I ever handle is a flank of salmon.
For meat the main advantage of longer is that you can simply cut larger hunks of meat without having to go back and forth in 2 cm increments, and generally being able to make longer strokes, thus giving a cleaner cut. Useful if you occasionall work with bigger pieces of meat, hams, or generally as a longer slicer. But it depends on what you're cutting; on small stuff there's no real benefit. Even as a home user, while my 270 suji isn't my most used knife in my kitchen, I'm happy to have one alongside my 240 and 210 gyutos. Might eventually get a 240 suji too, but usually if I just grab a gyuto or petty if I'm cutting something smaller.

If you want to try a 270 suji on a budget you could always get a cheap Fujiwara FKM or FKH.


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## MrHiggins (Nov 12, 2021)

You should look at Hattori from Japanese Chef Knife: Hattori Forums FH Series Sujihiki (230mm to 300mm, 3 sizes, Black Linen Micarta Handle).

It's VG10 steel, which some people don't like, but I've been very impressed with mine (I don't own the sujihiki but do have a honesuki from this line). The handle is perfection and won't get slippery even when it's wet. Very low maintenance and very high quality knife.


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## Brieuc (Nov 12, 2021)

MrHiggins said:


> You should look at Hattori from Japanese Chef Knife: Hattori Forums FH Series Sujihiki (230mm to 300mm, 3 sizes, Black Linen Micarta Handle).
> 
> It's VG10 steel, which some people don't like, but I've been very impressed with mine (I don't own the sunihiki but do have a honesuki from this line). The handle is perfection and won't get slippery even when it's wet. Very low maintenance and very high quality knife.




Thank you very much for the advice. 
It gots very good commentary. I guess for an honesuki vg10 is a pretty good steel . And it gots a discount maybe its a fake discount idk. I never had a vg 10 I now takamura gots a vg 10 line. I definitly watch more of this knife. 

Never heard of hatori i'm really impressed by the number of brand that exists for japanese knife !


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## Brieuc (Nov 12, 2021)

stringer said:


> Like I said they are available in stainless too. But I don't find carbon to be a disadvantage for a slicer. I've been cooking in a professional environment since 2005. I've tried a lot of slicers, yanagis, sujis, etc. I consider Ashi Ginga to be the gold standard and it was I recommend to my line cooks. My carbon 270 is probably 5 years old. And while I was working in big hotels it saw a lot of business (daily 500-1000 person buffets) and performed amazingly.





Now i'm considering buying a carbon steel. Tell you later if I take a ashi. Because in fact a slicer is not that often out in the kitchen. This seems to be a great quality knife considering the good comments on it.


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## MrHiggins (Nov 12, 2021)

Brieuc said:


> Now i'm considering buying a carbon steel. Tell you later if I take a ashi. Because in fact a slicer is not that often out in the kitchen. This seems to be a great quality knife considering the good comments on it.



Ashi come in stainless and carbon models, so you can try to find a stainless one. 

I own an Ashi stainless 180mm petty, but I can't say I like it all that much. I don't like the steel and have trouble getting it as sharp as I'd like. That's just me, though!


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## EShin (Nov 12, 2021)

Given your experiences and preferences, I'd go with your initial choice, the Miura SG2/R2 Sujihiki. It is made by an undisclosed Japanese maker, and "Miura" is just the branding. From what I see, I think it is made in Fukui prefecture and it is not unlikely that it could be made by Takamura. Price is good, you like the steel and have experience in sharpening it, it is available where you live, so it seems quite perfect.

You also mentioned Ginsan steel. It sharpens very easily, but edge retention is not as good as SG2/R2. For a thin (laserish) Sujihiki, I would choose SG2/R2 over Ginsan, especially if price is an issue - the prices of handforged Ginsan knives are quite high now.



Brieuc said:


> Now i'm considering buying a carbon steel. Tell you later if I take a ashi. Because in fact a slicer is not that often out in the kitchen. This seems to be a great quality knife considering the good comments on it.


The Ashi Ginga series is often recommended together with Takamura and offer great quality for the price. They offer both stainless as well as carbon steel, and you can choose between Western and Japanese handle, too. Here in Japan, the 240mm sujihiki costs 19'210 Yen for the stainless and 17'310 Yen for the carbon version (both handles cost the same) so really affordable. Still, I think the Miura would be my first recommendation.


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## Brieuc (Nov 13, 2021)

First of all I want to thank you all. I watched a lot of on the internet now i know that i will purchasse on a european site to avoid taxes and problems. Since the 1st of july new taxes restriction. The ashi seems to be an excellent cutter. I will maybe purchase it on the swiss site. Now i'm more concern about the second knife to purchase. Or a slicer or a second deba idk. I will notify you later.


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## Brieuc (Nov 13, 2021)

EShin said:


> Given your experiences and preferences, I'd go with your initial choice, the Miura SG2/R2 Sujihiki. (...) Japan, the 240mm sujihiki costs 19'210 Yen for the stainless and 17'310 Yen for the carbon version (both handles cost the same) so really affordable. Still, I think the Miura would be my first recommendation.



Hey thank you for the advice as I say. Yesterday I wanted to buy it but i calculate that it will cost me 30% more with the potential taxes. Plus the shipping. It will be around 290 euros and with no guarantee to have a good shipping conditions. Maybe its takamura made . It looks similar. But the ashi now is easyer for me to get. Less expensive less stress. 
I was hopping to get the sg2 to test it and to have an original knife but its too complicated.


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## Jovidah (Nov 13, 2021)

EShin said:


> Given your experiences and preferences, I'd go with your initial choice, the Miura SG2/R2 Sujihiki. It is made by an undisclosed Japanese maker, and "Miura" is just the branding. From what I see, I think it is made in Fukui prefecture and it is not unlikely that it could be made by Takamura. Price is good, you like the steel and have experience in sharpening it, it is available where you live, so it seems quite perfect.


Based on what? 
It lacks some of the distinctive characteristics that would usually lead one to suspect Takamura (like the sharp boxy bolster, using R2, handle that encapsulates tang on the bottom). 

Regarding customs... keep in mind that Switzerland is _also_ outside of the EU, and would result in customs lottery. When it comes to ordering from Japan, yes, this is something one has to keep in mind when ordering. At this point I always _assume_ that I will have to pay it, but it's still possible to get lucky. Even so, it might still be cheaper when including customs cost (meaning you save money even if you lose the lottery), and some knives are simply not available within the EU. I don't know of any Ashi vendors that are actually within the EU.


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## EM-L (Nov 13, 2021)

Brieuc said:


> Hey thank you for the advice as I say. Yesterday I wanted to buy it but i calculate that it will cost me 30% more with the potential taxes. Plus the shipping. It will be around 290 euros and with no guarantee to have a good shipping conditions. Maybe its takamura made . It looks similar. But the ashi now is easyer for me to get. Less expensive less stress.
> I was hopping to get the sg2 to test it and to have an original knife but its too complicated.


I have ordered quite a few knifes from Miura and to Sweden it works fine (Sometimes it takes an extra week in the customs). 
Good Luck with your knife search.


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## Luxusborg (Nov 13, 2021)

This is my recommendation: Hitohira Futana S3 Nashiji Sujihiki 270mm Pakka Handle (Yo) - Kamimoto
Ginsan and 270mm with a nice convex grind. I have the same in 210mm gyuto and it really punches much higher than it's price point.
You get 5% discount with the newsletter. Add a couple accessories or a whetstone to reach 200€ and you get free shipping. The blade is an OEM Sakon Ginga rebadged as Hitohira sakon-global | Hokiyama Cutlery.


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## Brieuc (Nov 13, 2021)

Luxusborg said:


> This is my recommendation: Hitohira Futana S3 Nashiji Sujihiki 270mm Pakka Handle (Yo) - Kamimoto
> Ginsan and 270mm with a nice convex grind. I have the same in 210mm gyuto and it really punches much higher than it's price point.
> You get 5% discount with the newsletter. Add a couple accessories or a whetstone to reach 200€ and you get free shipping. The blade is an OEM Sakon Ginga rebadged as Hitohira sakon-global | Hokiyama Cutlery.



What is this strange polish website ? Never heard of it. And i can't find any adress or rights on the internet. Someone now this website here ?


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## Luxusborg (Nov 14, 2021)

I have bought many knives from Kamimoto, and stones and accessories. Fantastic prices and service from Jacub the owner. They are based in Wroclaw and they have also a famous Sushi restaurant. And they can order anything you want from Hitohira. They ship with DPD to Belgium and it is always safely packed. You can see the reviews in the foot bottom of their site. I can only recommend them!


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## Yaniv18 (Nov 14, 2021)

Luxusborg said:


> This is my recommendation: Hitohira Futana S3 Nashiji Sujihiki 270mm Pakka Handle (Yo) - Kamimoto
> Ginsan and 270mm with a nice convex grind. I have the same in 210mm gyuto and it really punches much higher than it's price point.
> You get 5% discount with the newsletter. Add a couple accessories or a whetstone to reach 200€ and you get free shipping. The blade is an OEM Sakon Ginga rebadged as Hitohira sakon-global | Hokiyama Cutlery.


I one a few Hitohira Funata S3 and the SB they are Amazing!!! And you cannot beat the price for what you get.


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## SirCutAlot (Nov 14, 2021)

I pretty much enjoy my Kohsey HAP 40 Sujihiki. Only used to slice fish and meat @work, it cut nearly endless if properly sharpened. 

SirCutALot


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## EShin (Nov 14, 2021)

Brieuc said:


> Hey thank you for the advice as I say. Yesterday I wanted to buy it but i calculate that it will cost me 30% more with the potential taxes. Plus the shipping. It will be around 290 euros and with no guarantee to have a good shipping conditions. Maybe its takamura made . It looks similar. But the ashi now is easyer for me to get. Less expensive less stress.
> I was hopping to get the sg2 to test it and to have an original knife but its too complicated.


Quite complicated, I see, so the Ashi is logical choice then and I'm sure you won't be disappointed.
By the way, the Hitohira Futana in Ginsan that @Luxusborg suggested is made by the same company that also makes the knives sold under the "Tsunehisa" name which offer good quality for the price, too.



Jovidah said:


> Based on what?
> It lacks some of the distinctive characteristics that would usually lead one to suspect Takamura (like the sharp boxy bolster, using R2, handle that encapsulates tang on the bottom).


Some vendors say that Takamura uses R2, but SG2 would be more correct. They are almost the same, but R2 is made by KOBELCO and SG2 by Takefu. Steel, profile, grind, weight etc. are very similar, whereas it is not so difficult to change bolster and handle, but it is just speculation and I really don't know.


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## JaVa (Nov 15, 2021)

In EU we're a bit restricted when it comes to the choices we have with J-knives. I used to order from all around the world with good results, but since there are new rules that every delivery has to be declared I've ordered only with in EU.

My personal preference would be the Kaeru stainless 270 suji. Kaeru SLD steel seem to have decent edge retention. Haven't sharpened mine yet so can't comment on that sharpening, but should be fine. All in all it's a nice knife.

I used to own a 270 Sujihiki which I bought to slice salmon. I used to work in a place where I sliced 40-50kg of salmon every Monday and I always felt that I would prefer 300 size instead. I sold the 270 to buy a 300, but left the place before I got around to ordering the new one. Often used my 240 gyuto instead and 240 seems undersized to me. The lack of hight in a sujihiki makes it feel much smaller than a same size gyuto IMO.

But if you're mind is set on the 240 size, this could be a worth while option. I haven't used one, but comes in your preferred SG2 steel and is 240 size, is in EU and ok price too.





Sujihiki


Sujihiki Sujihiki knives Blade length: 240 mm



www.cleancut.eu





I'm also not the biggest fan of fully reactive knives, but I wouldn't mind one as a sujihiki for fish slicing as fish is the one thing I think is very forgiving when it comes to maintaining carbon knives, especially salmon.


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## Brieuc (Nov 15, 2021)

Thank you all for your tips and advice I know more about knifes in general. I will notice you in a new topic or elsewhere if there is something new about my knifes with my practice and everything how i use them, how i filet etc. Because we all want the best. The main pb is always the price, i know that my favorite knife combine quality, beauty and practicity. But if i have one that bleed me i will hate it. I love japan and the way they work. If i want a knife it will be the ashi ginga. I saw it was a good brand a familly business etc. Only one reseller in Europe but not in EU. Definitly go to it. And now I hesitate to go with a 270. As you understand the new knife is not for today. Thank you all. I close this topic.


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