# How long do you simmer for a chicken stock?



## boomchakabowwow (Feb 23, 2020)

Today was freezer clean out. I simmered a bunch of roasted chicken carcass leftovers to make a stock. I got it to that perfect slowing boil, and went for a motorcycle ride. 

it got me thinking, I just kinda simmer it. No real thought to duration. The chicken “scraps “ are flavorless and the bones get brittle. Maybe 3 hours? 

you all have a set time? Same for beef bones?


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## boomchakabowwow (Feb 23, 2020)

Here is the quick cool. I skip this if it happens to be a super cold winter’s night. I simply put it outside.


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## Michi (Feb 23, 2020)

Minimum four hours, maximum eight hours. (Longer than that, and you won't extract any additional flavour, but just have the stuff fall apart and make everything more cloudy.) Six hour seems to be the happy medium.

For beef stock, I tend to go longer, minimum six hours, maximum nine hours.


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## panda (Feb 23, 2020)

2 hours

beef 8hrs+ usually overnight.


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## ian (Feb 23, 2020)

5 hrs is a win for me. Gets super gelatinous. Although nowadays I always do it for 1 hr 45 min in a pressure cooker, since I’m lazy.


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## applepieforbreakfast (Feb 23, 2020)

3-4 hours for my chicken stock. If the cartilage on the end of bones falls off, that's good enough for me. Enough collagen in the stock at that point that it gels in the fridge.


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## Brian Weekley (Feb 23, 2020)

I was a 3-5 hour guy for many years on chicken stock. 4-6 for beef. Then a friends SO was a French Canadian girl. In case you haven’t had the pleasure of meeting one thesis momma’s trained then right. They CAN cook. When we chatted about this she said “24hrs at the slowest possible simmer and don’t hold back on the veges”. Since then, that’s what I do for all meats except fish ... and I scour the refrigerator and freezer for veges. When I can I do a brown stock but regardless everything gets 24hrs.


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## McMan (Feb 23, 2020)

From whenever dinner's over to whenever I forget I have it on the stove.
Don't set a timer. That's cheating. There should be the ever-present risk of passing out on the couch before you remember to turn off the stock.


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## Ryndunk (Feb 23, 2020)

2 hours tops. Veggies only for the last 40 minutes. Any longer and chicken stock will taste "muddy". 
Beef and pork can go for a while. Beef usually 12 hours. Pork 8 hours. Turkey for 3.


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## J.C (Feb 23, 2020)

2hour max. Otherwise it will go cloudy.
YMMV, but we need a clear chicken stock for commercial usages


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## Briochy (Feb 23, 2020)

Michi said:


> Minimum four hours, maximum eight hours. (Longer than that, and you won't extract any additional flavour, but just have the stuff fall apart and make everything more cloudy.) Six hour seems to be the happy medium.
> 
> For beef stock, I tend to go longer, minimum six hours, maximum nine hours.


Interesting what you say. I totally agree about the chicken part, but for beef I find 9 hours to be a little short. Every time I make beef stock from femur, back, knuckle bones, after 9 hours, there will always be about 20% of collagenous connective tissues still left waiting to be dissolved. 12-14 hours dissolve 95% of all connective tissue, and that's how long I tend to go for. However, I'm only a home cook.


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## rickbern (Feb 23, 2020)

99 minutes in a pressure cooker for chicken. Natural release

double that for beef.

my best stocks come from veal. I have a butcher that saves me the bone next to the Osso Buco, that makes an amazing stock.


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## Briochy (Feb 23, 2020)

rickbern said:


> 99 minutes in a pressure cooker for chicken. Natural release
> 
> double that for beef.
> 
> my best stocks come from veal. I have a butcher that saves me the bone next to the Osso Buco, that makes an amazing stock.


Have you tried Food Wishes' cheater demi using a mixture of chicken and beef? That's the recipe I've been using with success at home. Wondering if veal stock tastes significantly better, cuz I've been told by a chef once that veal is incomparable but it's kinda expensive so I have not tried it yet.


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## daveb (Feb 23, 2020)

3-5 hr. Always add some extra gelatinous, feets, wing tips, wings.


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## madelinez (Feb 23, 2020)

I use only chicken wings (with browned leek/onion/garlic/bay leaves), and simmer at very low heat for 6-8 hours. Seems to maximise the gelatin.


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## Michi (Feb 23, 2020)

Briochy said:


> Interesting what you say. I totally agree about the chicken part, but for beef I find 9 hours to be a little short.


Ah, OK, you have me curious now. I'll go longer next time and see how that works out.



Briochy said:


> However, I'm only a home cook.


Same here


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## M1k3 (Feb 24, 2020)

4+ hours. If you want it clear, use a raft.


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## Lars (Feb 24, 2020)

90 minutes in a pressure cooker is my current rutine for making chicken stock at home.


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## GorillaGrunt (Feb 24, 2020)

3-4 hrs, 90min pressure. Beef as long as possible, all day or overnight or 4 hours pressure. But if using pressure I decrease any veg or other ingredients.


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## rickbern (Feb 24, 2020)

madelinez said:


> I use only chicken wings (with browned leek/onion/garlic/bay leaves), and simmer at very low heat for 6-8 hours. Seems to maximise the gelatin.


Lately I’ve been buying a chicken and pulling two boneless breasts and the thighs off. I roast the carcass first and use plenty of veg.

Makes a great stock and I get three meals for two people. All from a fifteen dollar bird. 

It’s best with the ones from Chinatown that come with the feet.


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## boomchakabowwow (Feb 24, 2020)

i am shocked how much our times vary.


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## Brian Weekley (Feb 24, 2020)

I think it has to do with whether you’re seeking a clear stock. I use my stock in gravies, hearty soups and stews. I don’t care whether I have a cloudy stock. I just want to extract everything I can from the bones etc.


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## MontezumaBoy (Feb 24, 2020)

Old school; 4 hrs Chick / 8+ hrs Beef / 8+ hrs Veal (special treatment for veal though with a blanch + 2X / 8-each extractions for Veal then marriage then reduce ... 2+ days min)

New school; Pressure cooker (much better results IMO) = better extraction, better clarity & (significantly) reduced time ... chicken = 45 min & beef/pork = 1.5 hours (Veal I still do old school)


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## MontezumaBoy (Feb 24, 2020)

Brian Weekley said:


> I think it has to do with whether you’re seeking a clear stock. I use my stock in gravies, hearty soups and stews. I don’t care whether I have a cloudy stock. I just want to extract everything I can from the bones etc.



I still like to have the clarity anyway ... love consume and never know when I might need it so treat them all the same unless making the actual soup same day ...


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## mise_en_place (Feb 24, 2020)

2 hours for chicken stock will get you great clean flavor but little body. I think more than 8 hours has reached the point of diminishing returns. I keep my stock temp super low. First, I blanch the bones, then I clean the pot, add fresh cold water, and I put it on the heat. I use a probe thermometer with an alarm set so it doesn't go past 88°C/190°F. Diced veg in the last hour. That keeps everything super clear.

My minimum for beef is 8 hours. I prefer 12. Obviously, the size of your bones will affect you more here. If using whole knuckles, ankles, necks, and other large pieces like in a commercial setting, 16-24 hours is about right, I think.


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## mise_en_place (Feb 24, 2020)

rickbern said:


> my best stocks come from veal. I have a butcher that saves me the bone next to the Osso Buco, that makes an amazing stock.



These are great for stock. Around the holidays when I was cutting a bunch of veal shanks for customers, I'd save the tops and bottoms of the shanks and made about 10 L of really delicious veal stock. IMO there's not really a better piece of veal for stock than these knuckles and ankles.


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## M1k3 (Feb 24, 2020)

Could go old school Escoffier, chop up the bones and cook for 20 minutes...


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## Brian Weekley (Feb 24, 2020)

Stocks are a bit of a major event in my kitchen. I make stocks two or three times a year. The biggest lesson I learned was the advantage of using a proper restaurant kitchen size stock pots. I have two of them plus a much smaller household sized stock pot. Here’s a pic of the large and small ...




I collect as many veges as I can ... freezing a big bag of trimmings as I go. Bone stock is sourced locally from organically and ethically raised animals. To get lamb and veal bones I purchase the animal and have it bonelessly butchered to collect the bones and fill my freezer with meat cuts. I do beef from beef neck bones which are getting harder to obtain. Here’s a pic of the lamb that was last used to butcher for meat and collect lamb bones. Lamb bones are also getting hard to source as is veal. That’s why I buy the whole animal. 






For chicken stock I use 22-24 organically raised chicken carcasses at a time. Turkey stock takes 4-5 turkey carcasses. I generally do brown stock which involves roasting the meat and bones for 45mins, veges for another 45mins. Everything goes into the stock pot to be brought to a slow ... and I mean slow simmer. Put the lid on and leave it alone for 24 hrs. Using the proper stockpot means almost no evaporation during the simmer. The next day pull the pot off the burner and let it cool for 8-10 hrs. Using a large cone filter, filter the solids. Veal gets a coarse and fine cone filter. Into the refrigerator at least overnight. The next day remove the fat and save ... its gold! I’m a fan of using the rendered fat in appropriate dishes. Put the stock pot back on the stove and bring to a slow boil. Reduce 40-60%. I’m looking for a Demi glacé. Cool ... possibly overnight again in the freezer. The next day if I’m happy with the consistency of the stock I’ll reheat until the stock is watery and put it in 8 cup freezer containers. When sufficiently cool, the containers go into the freezer to be consumed as needed. Move onto the next type of stock and repeat the process. The resulting stock is cloudy but, as I say, it doesn’t bother me given what I cook with it. Advantages ... well ... Christmas turkeys provide turkey stock for the roasting pan, dressing, wild rice and gravy at Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving does the same for Christmas. The same for lamb dishes. In my city commercial BONE stock sells for $10 for 4 cups. Soups, stews and gravies all come from my stock. I go through a lot of it.


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## labor of love (Feb 24, 2020)

The OP is talking about fully cooked chicken carcass’s that he saved in the freezer. Tbh I play that stuff by ear.


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## rickbern (Feb 24, 2020)

For a home cook, this 10 liter pressure cooker and 4 cup fat separator are some of the best investments I’ve ever made.
I make stock probably every two weeks, freeze them in a million 1 cup Tupperwares.

BTW, the model, if your interested, is a Fagor/Zavor Helix


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## rickbern (Feb 24, 2020)

Briochy said:


> Have you tried Food Wishes' cheater demi using a mixture of chicken and beef? That's the recipe I've been using with success at home. Wondering if veal stock tastes significantly better, cuz I've been told by a chef once that veal is incomparable but it's kinda expensive so I have not tried it yet.


No, haven't tried it yet, but listen to the chef. Veal is incomparable. Sometimes (at least here) you can find veal breast for dirt cheap. That makes a pretty good stock, maybe more a broth. If you find one, make a pot au feu kind of thing, serve the meat and keep the broth. It's really good.


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## rickbern (Feb 24, 2020)

n/text​


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## boomchakabowwow (Feb 24, 2020)

Lots of hot stock presents a problem for me. How to chill it safely before I put it in the fridge. Using my biggest pot paints me in the corner, when I need to strain it into something of similar size. My hotel pan is my go to chill container mow.


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## Brian Weekley (Feb 24, 2020)

I have an extra refrigerator that can hold two of my large stock pots. When I turn off the heat under the stock pot I set an alarm in the stock set for 145F. After about 8 hrs. The alarm goes off and the stock goes into the refrigerator. The next day (generally) I take the fat off and reduce the stock on the stove by 40-60%. Cool somewhat and back in the refrigerator. The next day the stock gets warmed and portioned into freezer containers. The trick is the extra refrigerator and the Thermapen alarm. When I do soups and stews the process with the refrigerator is essentially the same without the day 2 reduction. I enjoy this whole process a lot. Beats working for a living!


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## Michi (Feb 24, 2020)

To cool stock, I usually put the whole pot into the sink, throw a whole bunch of ice around it, and add a bit of water. Makes short work of getting it cold enough to put into the fridge. (It helps that I have a fridge with an ice maker.)


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## Brian Weekley (Feb 24, 2020)

I wish I did ... but it wouldn’t be too much trouble to pick up a bag or two of ice.


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## McMan (Feb 24, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Could go old school Escoffier, chop up the bones and cook for 20 minutes...


Sounds like my speed... got a link?


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## M1k3 (Feb 24, 2020)

McMan said:


> Sounds like my speed... got a link?



Not at the moment, but, chop bones. Put in pot. Put in liver/gizzards in pot. Chop veggies. Put in pot. Fill with cold water. Bring to boil. Strain.


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## HRC_64 (Feb 25, 2020)

labor of love said:


> The OP is talking about fully cooked chicken carcass’s that he saved in the freezer. Tbh I play that stuff by ear.



This is important point ! 

method 1 - "Proper stock" for chickens is using whole, raw chickens and you cook for 8-12 hours (true simmer). 
method 2 - If you're makign stock with pre-cooked ( salvaged "scraps") it depends on the quality/state of the ingredients, 

.... more likely 2-3 hours


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## gman (Feb 25, 2020)

yeah, not sure how much you can get out of a previously cooked chicken, so a couple of hours might be enough.

i use raw only (after parting fresh chickens i end up with a freezer full of necks, backs, keel bones, and wing tips). i do 8-12 hours. if i'm planning a rustic chicken soup i'll use the stock cloudy. for fancier things were i need a clear stock, i will refrigerate over night, then clarify with an egg raft the next day. really important to add the eggs while the broth is cold and slowly warm them up again together. 

as an aside, keeping the dry outer skins on when you add onions to the simmering broth helps with color.


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## M1k3 (Feb 25, 2020)

@McMan and anyone else interested. Le Guide Culinaire https://archive.org/details/cu31924000610117/page/n12/mode/2up


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## McMan (Feb 25, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> @McMan and anyone else interested. Le Guide Culinaire https://archive.org/details/cu31924000610117/page/n12/mode/2up


Cool! Thanks--that's awesome that you found a link to 910 pages of Escoffier!


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## spyken (Mar 3, 2020)

last one I did was just 2 hours. I discarded the chicken carcasses - they were kampung chickens, meat is tough anyways. then made a soto-style broth with it.


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## ian (Mar 4, 2020)

Michi said:


> To cool stock, I usually put the whole pot into the sink, throw a whole bunch of ice around it, and add a bit of water. Makes short work of getting it cold enough to put into the fridge. (It helps that I have a fridge with an ice maker.)





Brian Weekley said:


> I wish I did ... but it wouldn’t be too much trouble to pick up a bag or two of ice.



It's also effective without the ice. I usually just put the bowl of stock in the sink filled with cold water. It cools down rapidly. 



HRC_64 said:


> method 1 - "Proper stock" for chickens is using whole, raw chickens and you cook for 8-12 hours (true simmer).





gman said:


> yeah, not sure how much you can get out of a previously cooked chicken, so a couple of hours might be enough.



By whole, you mean "all parts", right? There's no point in not cutting up the bird. In fact, the smaller the pieces the faster the extraction. I usually cut my chickens up into 1 in cubes, bones and all, with shears. Similarly, re: "raw", I'd say that I usually brown the chicken pieces heavily in the broiler before putting them in the broth. They're probably even cooked through, more or less, by the time they're added. I get a deeper flavor, and the broth is much clearer that way.


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## HRC_64 (Mar 5, 2020)

ian said:


> By whole, you mean "all parts", right? There's no point in not cutting up the bird.



Whole bird (to me) means you start from whole birds (fresh). Also, that there is substantial flesh/meat in proportion to the bones. You don't necessarily need spend a ton of time to prep the ingredients when it cooks for 8-12 hours. Just rough cut veg with peels on, and your seasoning is pretty much it. Chicken into ~4-6 pieces + Crack all the bones with the back of the knife, the back is gonna be split during this process, the long bones are the ones you are cracking. That being said, I typically remove the breast portions and use thes for another main dish or poach them in the finished stock, etc.

Just my $0.02


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## lowercasebill (Mar 6, 2020)

Bring to boil skim scum reduce heat. My ceramic cooktop will hold 180°F. So i walk away. Generally 24 but a gone 48. Because it doesn't simmer everything sinks if i ladel carefully i get really clear stock.


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## M1k3 (Mar 6, 2020)

lowercasebill said:


> Bring to boil skim scum reduce heat. My ceramic cooktop will hold 180°F. So i walk away. Generally 24 but a gone 48. Because it doesn't simmer everything sinks if i ladel carefully i get really clear stock.



Have you tried using a raft? I get similar, if not better results using one versus skimming it.


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## lowercasebill (Mar 6, 2020)

Please explain raft .
I have a lot of soup to make


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## M1k3 (Mar 6, 2020)

I got it from the French Laundry cookbook and I'm paraphrasing it...anyway:

1 egg white, 1 celery stick and if you happen to have some protein to use, toss it in, per 4-6 quarts of stock. Blend this together in a food processor. Add it to the stock when it's about body temperatureish. Move pot off center of burner. Let it come to a a slow boil, enough the stock circulates and the raft stays on one side, but not so much it breaks the raft. Let it go for about an hour or so, the raft will solidify and look "dirty".


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## Michi (Mar 6, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Let it come to a a slow boil, enough the stock circulates and the raft stays on one side, but not so much it breaks the raft. Let it go for about an hour or so, the raft will solidify and look "dirty".


That's essentially a protein skimmer. Similar tricks with egg white or isinglass are used in brewing, to remove ultra-fine particles and clarify the beer.

I've never tried this, I'll give that a shot next time, thanks!


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## Ryndunk (Mar 6, 2020)

Classic french consomme method.


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## Ryndunk (Mar 6, 2020)

I think you guys are crazy for cooking chicken stock that long. Especially with the vegetables in. Two key points for making a good stock. Never letting it boil and controlling the vegetable flavors. Veggies should never be cooked past the point they don't hold their shape




If using whole birds. Simmer till cooked through. Remove birds, remove meat from birds. Place carcass back into stock. Add vegetables when appropriate.


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## Brian Weekley (Mar 6, 2020)

“Crazy” ... “never” ... now those are very interesting words. The older I got the less I used them.


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## Ryndunk (Mar 6, 2020)

Brian Weekley said:


> “Crazy” ... “never” ... now those are very interesting words. The older I got the less I used them.


True. There are exceptions. I've just seen plenty of stocks and soups ruined simply from overcooking.


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## Brian Weekley (Mar 6, 2020)

Good point! Definitely something to consider.


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## orangehero (May 7, 2020)

I'm not very experienced making chicken stock. I was wondering what are some general weight to volume ratios? For example for 1 pound of fresh chicken carcass (breasts, thighs, wings removed) would you then use about 1 pound vegetables (2:1:1 onion, celery, carrot) and 4 quarts of cold water?


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## lowercasebill (May 7, 2020)

I just use enough water to cover.


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## M1k3 (May 7, 2020)

As someone that works in a restaurant, the ratio is "that looks about right". I don't know, 1 part chicken to 1 part veggies? Enough water to cover about an 1-2 inches above?


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## ian (May 7, 2020)

You can play around with it. Sometimes, I like a really chickeny stock that just has like half a medium sized yellow onion and a garlic clove along with the chicken, and just cover with water. Other times, I put carrots in for sweetness, or celery root, and more aromatics, and more water. Actually celery root is one of my favorite things to add. I don't like to put a lot of celery in a stock because I find it too aggressive, but celery root is great.


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## orangehero (May 7, 2020)

Maybe this is an obvious issue, but do you keep adding water to keep it covered?


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## M1k3 (May 7, 2020)

I don't. Unless I forgot about it...


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## gman (May 7, 2020)

my ratios for a 16 quart pot are usually:

4 chicken carcasses
3 carrots
2 yellow onions
2 celery stalks
2 cloves of garlic
1 rutabaga
handful of parsley
handful of black pepper corns
handful of cumin
half bottle of chardonnay
salt to taste (near the end)

and since we are talking about chicken vs veggies, also important to point out that it's best to start the chicken first, from cold water, and skim off all the scum that floats to the top before adding veggies. if you add the chicken and veggies at the same time, a lot of the scum gets trapped by the veggies, and can't be separated easily.

and yes, add water to keep everything covered, but if you have it on a low enough simmer you shouldn't have to do that much, if at all


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## ian (May 7, 2020)

orangehero said:


> Maybe this is an obvious issue, but do you keep adding water to keep it covered?



I would too. But yea, this isn't usually that big of a problem.


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## Eziemniak (May 20, 2020)

4h carcasses with some onion peel for color plus 1h with veg (less to do with scum IMO more with the fact if you put veg for 5h it is not going to be pretty)
Comes out jelly
Never boil, barely simmer, no need to clarify
My mom sweated by putting charred onion as a kind of filter - but if you go slow enough no need IMO


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## Boondocker (May 20, 2020)

J.C said:


> 2hour max. Otherwise it will go cloudy.
> YMMV, but we need a clear chicken stock for commercial usages



What kind of volume are you going through? I rarely had an issue clarifying enough for consummes and found that richer flavor more than made up for the extra time and the rest of the stock and second run were ready for their other uses


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## lars78 (May 24, 2020)

removing the chicken meat from bones when tender after about 3h, simmering for another 3 to 5h


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## ian (May 24, 2020)

lars78 said:


> removing the chicken meat from bones when tender after about 3h, simmering for another 3 to 5h



? what do you do with 3h simmered chicken meat?


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## rickbern (May 24, 2020)

ian said:


> ? what do you do with 3h simmered chicken meat?



Dog food!


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## orangehero (May 24, 2020)

Just as another point of data, Thomas Keller says they do 45 min gentle simmer.

I picked up a pressure cooker and did 90 minutes at 15 psi with a mix of some raw chicken carcass and roast chicken carcass. The stock is far from clear, but it is super gelatinous and fresh tasting. I'd like to get a little more of clean flavor though. I also brought up all the chicken to an initial simmer and dumped that out before refilling with fresh cold water. Defatted it and froze it into 100 mL cubes.


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## zetieum (May 24, 2020)

45 min pressure cooker. Filter. Onvernight in the fridge. Remove the fat. 
Next step: I cook a risotto for my familly.


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## M1k3 (May 24, 2020)

orangehero said:


> Just as another point of data, Thomas Keller says they do 45 min gentle simmer.
> 
> I picked up a pressure cooker and did 90 minutes at 15 psi with a mix of some raw chicken carcass and roast chicken carcass. The stock is far from clear, but it is super gelatinous and fresh tasting. I'd like to get a little more of clean flavor though. I also brought up all the chicken to an initial simmer and dumped that out before refilling with fresh cold water. Defatted it and froze it into 100 mL cubes.


After you strain it, you can use a raft and filter it like a Consommé.


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## Dendrobatez (May 26, 2020)

Wow, you guys stock times are way lower than what I do. I do roasted bones (these are real clean ) only, overnight lowest temp I can (1 bubble every 5 second) add my vegetables and do a bit higher simmer for 2 more hrs, then strain through some aromatics. Veal I do a full 16hrs super low, then 12 for a remmy. I do a pressure cooker for veg stock because I don't make 200# of that at a time. 
I dont see clarity issues or a muddy mouth feel, the only time this happens is if its cooked at too high a temperature.


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## TB_London (May 26, 2020)

In the slow cooker on low overnight. Chopping up the carcasses means it doesn’t take much liquid to cover, I reckon on 500ml per carcass. I also don’t add any veg, just roasted bones, water and some cider vinegar. 

it’s a weekly cycle of this weeks chicken with gravy made from the frozen stock of last weeks carcass.

Beef or Mutton stock I also do overnight. A warm bowl of cawl made with mutton stock is one of the highlights of autumn.


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