# "simple stainless gyuto" - what would be your pick?



## Matus (Mar 8, 2014)

Being on my search for a western handled gyuto I have come to realise that all I need is a decent simple stainless 240mm workhorse - optimally with a western handle - for up to about $300 (new or used).

Often when one talks about stainless knives in this price range there is a lot of discussion which steel and from which maker. And that is exactly what I am after - which knife (maker) would you pick? DT ITK?, HHH? Suisin Honyaki? Or would you prefer some of the Gesshin lines? 

The keyword is - blade performance (combination of steel, HT and blade grind/profile) in terms of sharpness, edge retention & toughness (chip resistance)

I would love to hear your experience!


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## Von blewitt (Mar 8, 2014)

Gesshin Ginga western,
I haven't used the western, but I was very impressed with Wa version.
I think it will tick all your boxes, plus it comes with a saya & under budget.

Depending on your definition of "workhorse" it's not an overly hefty knife, but it is low maintenance, holds an edge and is pretty tough.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 8, 2014)

Get a JCK CarboNEXT, round and smooth the spine and choil, put your own edge on and you've got it. For less than half your budget, even including a saya.

Rick


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## kpnv (Mar 8, 2014)

dibs on the $300 dt itk. i'll take 2.


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## ecchef (Mar 8, 2014)

I'd give these a serious look as well: http://hhhcustomknives.com/product-category/knives/


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## pleue (Mar 8, 2014)

My vote would be a Mac Pro and generic saya for around 200. Edge retention good not great, not chippy atall, sturdy with no flexing and wedging, my favorite western handle, and a great profile. Round the spine and choil and bash away


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## vlad8 (Mar 8, 2014)

Von blewitt said:


> Gesshin Ginga western,
> I haven't used the western, but I was very impressed with Wa version.
> I think it will tick all your boxes, plus it comes with a saya & under budget.
> 
> Depending on your definition of "workhorse" it's not an overly hefty knife, but it is low maintenance, holds an edge and is pretty tough.


+1


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## CoqaVin (Mar 8, 2014)

what about a Hiromoto AS?


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## Talim (Mar 8, 2014)

Tanaka Ginsanko. I have the HHH production and prefer my Tanaka Blue2. It's also a fairly thin knife so might not be good for those harder veggies.


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## labor of love (Mar 9, 2014)

Tanaka ginsanko....from metal master. I think the ones mark carries are thinner, but i like the metal master ones. Mac Pro is great too.


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## panda (Mar 9, 2014)

hiro AS is carbon not stainless..

carbonext is thin and narrow, i would not consider it a workhorse.

tanaka g3 is excellent steel, but fit & finish is rather horrible, it's a good workhorse but be prepared to get some work done, it is definitely not thin like the blue#2 version (a good thing if you can thin it yourself). i owned both at one time.

aeb-l takes a nice edge but retention is lacking (speaking from experience with dt itk)

for simplicity and not much work needed, i like the mac pro recommendation, the handle is quite good.


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## Benuser (Mar 9, 2014)

Hiromoto G3


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 9, 2014)

Geeshin Gonbei comes in at half your budget and was specifically designed by Jon to be a tough western workhorse. How can you go wrong?


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## insomniac (Mar 9, 2014)

Konosuke has a stainless line that will probably run you less than $200 equivalent for a Gyuto if you don't need anything fancy on the handle or finish. They're offered by quite a fair number of sellers and even sell direct depending on where you're located.


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## insomniac (Mar 9, 2014)

Konosuke has a stainless line that will probably run you less than $200 equivalent for a Gyuto if you don't need anything fancy on the handle or finish. They're offered by quite a fair number of sellers and even sell direct depending on where you're located.


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## insomniac (Mar 9, 2014)

Konosuke has a stainless line that will probably run you less than $200 equivalent for a Gyuto if you don't need anything fancy on the handle or finish. They're offered by quite a fair number of sellers and even sell direct depending on where you're located.


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 9, 2014)

Konosuke stainless is a laser, not a workhorse.


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## Matus (Mar 9, 2014)

Wow, thanks. I appreciate your help.

HHH knives - very high on my list. I have already exchanged some PMs with RANDY. His production gyutos look nice (blade not too tall, and amazing handles).

JKI knives - I am in contact with Jon. He has some interesting looking knives (including Ginga, Gonbei, Uraku, Kagero, Kochi) - I am in the process of figuring out what to expect there.



> dibs on the $300 dt itk. i'll take 2.


OK, I may have been a bit too optimistic :razz:

Mac Pro - the weight I have found for 240mm gyuto is 350g (!?) - that is way too much. Apart from that - wold the knife perform any better than the sub $200 offers from Jon?

Tanaka Gisanko - sounds interesting, but bad F&F does not sound too inspiring. Would the knife be worth having custom handle made (the original looks, uhm, not great) ? Maybe that could be an option.

******
One comment concerning the western handles - I really like the shape like HHH gyutos have (or the lovely custom Rodrigue available at the B/S/T). It seems that most production japanese western handled knives (pretty much irrespective of their price or quality) have all very similar uninspiring handles. This may sound naive, but these 'all looking the same' black handles (just like the one on our MAC pro bread knife) just scream to me 'rehandle' ...


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## labor of love (Mar 9, 2014)

mac pro definitely doesnt weigh 350 grams. its a light/medium light weight knife as far as western handled knives go.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 9, 2014)

panda said:


> ...
> 
> carbonext is thin and narrow, i would not consider it a workhorse.
> 
> ...



Thin and narrow? 2.4 mm spine (same as the Tanaka ginsanko you recommend) and 47 mm at the heel. Maybe the one you handled wasn't near stock?


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## NO ChoP! (Mar 9, 2014)

Mac Ultimate maybe weighs that much.

The Tanaka ginsanko has a sweet grind. The blade itself is not finished. Hiding under the etch are some serious scratches. The handle is an easy fix. The lack of a longish emoto on the wa may steer some away.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Mar 9, 2014)

Some good advices here, so let me add another one.

New knife maker joined KKF not a long time ago:  Ian Rogers of Haburn knives. I haven't seen any reviews about his knives so I ordered a custom knife and gonna write my own when I get it into my hands 
But have a look at http://www.haburnknives.com/store/full-tang-gyuto-aeb-l  to me they looks awesome. Reminds me of awesome works by Don Nguyen







And the price is right. Ian is very easy to talk to, so you could easily order a fully custom 240 gyuto in stainless steel that would fit into your budget. I personally really like this tall profile. 

So imho Haburn gyuto is another option worth considering.


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## daddy yo yo (Mar 9, 2014)

Hattori FH?


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## CoqaVin (Mar 9, 2014)

This thread is acting weird. It shows up under "New posts" then I click the second page and the last post it says is from daddy yo yo but the last on the thread is Pensacola Tigers?


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## CoqaVin (Mar 9, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> Some good advices here, so let me add another one.
> 
> New knife maker joined KKF not a long time ago:  Ian Rogers of Haburn knives. I haven't seen any reviews about his knives so I ordered a custom knife and gonna write my own when I get it into my hands
> But have a look at http://www.haburnknives.com/store/full-tang-gyuto-aeb-l  to me they looks awesome. Reminds me of awesome works by Don Nguyen
> ...



I just ordered a custom from him and he is going to make it a WIP here. Stay Tuned it is going to be AWESOME!


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## berko (Mar 9, 2014)

since your in germany, ever thought about a custom schanz? stainless cant get any better then his sb1 i think. waiting time is long tho.


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## zoze (Mar 9, 2014)

Tilman is offering Niolox customs in your price range. And he's in germany, too.


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## cclin (Mar 9, 2014)

I'm not sure what is your definition of "workhorse" gyuto??
for my own own definition of classify:
laser gyuto: spine width <2.5mm & weight< 200g , e.g Konosuke HD, Gesshin Ginga, Suisin Honyaki etc...
all-around gyuto: spine width above 2.6mm & weight between 200g~250g , e.g Kochi, yoshikane, Gengetsu etc...
workhorse gyuto: weight> 250g , e.g watanabe pro, Kato workhorse etc...
I personally like gyuto weight between 200g~225g 
I assume you are looking for all-around gyuto not heavy duty workhorse gyuto...
how about yoshikane skd-12 hammer finished yo gyuto? medium weight, good edge retention & not much harder to sharpening than carbon. http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/yminfo/item/10004541/
if you don't mind wa handle, there is one in b/s/t....


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## Matus (Mar 9, 2014)

Info about two more makers - great! I am definitely dropping them an email 


@cclin: you are right - I am looking more for an all-around gyuto, not a true heavy duty workhorse.


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## mhlee (Mar 9, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Thin and narrow? 2.4 mm spine (same as the Tanaka ginsanko you recommend) and 47 mm at the heel. Maybe the one you handled wasn't near stock?



+1


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## Erilyn75 (Mar 9, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> This thread is acting weird. It shows up under "New posts" then I click the second page and the last post it says is from daddy yo yo but the last on the thread is Pensacola Tigers?



It's been acting strange since last night. Seemed like the site crashed.


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## panda (Mar 9, 2014)

where are you getting tanaka g3 measurement from? the 240 one i handled (from metalmaster) was slightly thinner (guessing 3.5mm) but taller than the 270 i have 4mm x 53mm. although i've been told the g3 from cktg were custom ordered by mark and had shigeki grind them instead of hideyuki which the grind is just like the damascus version and are quite thin behind the edge.

2.4 x 47 is indeed thin and narrow as far as i'm concerned.

konosuke ginsan series is interesting, i like the grind still narrow but i'm weird and like tall gyutos. maybe it's a proper grown up version of tanaka g3?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 9, 2014)

panda said:


> where are you getting tanaka g3 measurement from? the 240 one i handled (from metalmaster) was slightly thinner (guessing 3.5mm) but taller than the 270 i have 4mm x 53mm. although i've been told the g3 from cktg were custom ordered by mark and had shigeki grind them instead of hideyuki which the grind is just like the damascus version and are quite thin behind the edge.
> 
> 2.4 x 47 is indeed thin and narrow as far as i'm concerned.
> 
> konosuke ginsan series is interesting, i like the grind still narrow but i'm weird and like tall gyutos. maybe it's a proper grown up version of tanaka g3?



My Tanaka came from Mark, so perhaps it is thinner than the ones that you get from MetalMaster. 

I assume you consider the Misono Swedish (the Dragon) to be thin and narrow, with a 2.4 mm spine and a height at the heel of 49 mm. I consider it to be a "middle of the road" gyuto, just like the CarboNEXT. 

Part of the problem is that terms like "laser" and "workhorse" are thrown around without any clear consensus of what they mean. It's almost as bad as "thin behind the edge".

Rick


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## Von blewitt (Mar 9, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Part of the problem is that terms like "laser" and "workhorse" are thrown around without any clear consensus of what they mean. It's almost as bad as "thin behind the edge".
> 
> Rick


And ****** knife has a"nice grind"


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 9, 2014)

Von blewitt said:


> And ****** knife has a"nice grind"



I have to admit that I've been guilty of that one. :O


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## panda (Mar 9, 2014)

the thinnest knife i enjoyed for a while was a masamoto vg which was 2.5mm but was a bit taller than the rest at 52. it didn't have that much taper so didn't feel as flexy as other knives with similar spine thickness plus its profile is more santoku-like rather than the french pointy type hence i think there was more overall metal in the blade. i don't feel comfortable recommending it because the handle is rather awkward and choil is very sharp.

the dragon was one i never got around to trying, i went with masamoto hc as a no nonsense knife instead. maybe i'll get to play with one down the road.


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## labor of love (Mar 9, 2014)

I owned a misono swed and used pandas tanaka and let me say that the tanaka is a tad bit thicker. Metal master tanaka g3s are thicker than the ones mark carries. I measure everything i try and the tanaka 270mm from metal master had 3.0mm spine with practically no taper at all half way down the blade. I owned a mis swed 240 and i think the spine was thinner and even though it was on the light side and pretty thin i didnt really think of it as a laser. Both knives are great it just depends on the customers preference.


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## WiscoNole (Mar 9, 2014)

Hattori FH - best Western handle and nicely treated VG-10...or Ryusen Blazen - fantastic powdered steel, solid fit and finish, nice black saya included


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## Matus (Mar 10, 2014)

OK guys. if things will work out than I should soon commit a custom project with Ian Rogers of Haburn knives :knife: Things are being discussed right now. Once the project starts I will try to give you guys some "live coverage"


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## mhlee (Mar 10, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> I assume you consider the Misono Swedish (the Dragon) to be thin and narrow, with a 2.4 mm spine and a height at the heel of 49 mm. I consider it to be a "middle of the road" gyuto, just like the CarboNEXT.
> 
> Part of the problem is that terms like "laser" and "workhorse" are thrown around without any clear consensus of what they mean. It's almost as bad as "thin behind the edge".
> 
> Rick



+1 The term "workhorse" meaning a thicker knife is puzzling to me. Im not a pro, but I would consider a "workhorse" to be the knife that let's me perform the most amount of work for the longest period of time comfortably. For me, my Gesshin Ginga is still the most comfortable knife to use when I've had to cut for hours at a time.


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## CoqaVin (Mar 11, 2014)

Me too Matus, seems like a bunch of people are getting customs from Ian AWESOME!


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## Matus (Mar 11, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> Me too Matus, seems like a bunch of people are getting customs from Ian AWESOME!



And the great thing is that at the time there is no waiting time. I could have the knife in few weeks. I need to start that 'live view' thread - the blade design is already there!


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## CoqaVin (Mar 11, 2014)

I know, not a long wait at all AWESOME!


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Mar 11, 2014)

It took him 11 days from discussing design to shipping completed knife. That's quite refreshing compared to endless waiting lists of other KKF makers


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## CoqaVin (Mar 11, 2014)

what did you get chzbrgr


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Mar 11, 2014)

well a chzbrgr knife apparently  

It's a small gyuto or very tall petty with near flat profile. Very thin. Very stainless. Vert cheezburgerish 






picture by Ian Rogers.

 shipping from Canada or US to Russia usually takes 3-4 weeks, so some of you could receive your knives before me


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## XooMG (Mar 11, 2014)

icanhaschzbrgr said:


> well a chzbrgr knife apparently
> 
> It's a small gyuto or very tall petty with near flat profile. Very thin. Very stainless. Vert cheezburgerish
> 
> ...



Very cool...reminds me of my Tosagata knife a little. The choil/heel isn't my style, but the handle looks great. If I wasn't on a temporary knife moratorium, I'd consider an order...


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## Matus (Mar 11, 2014)

The blade is indeed very flat - what is the intended purpose of this knife?


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Mar 11, 2014)

Matus said:


> The blade is indeed very flat - what is the intended purpose of this knife?



I'm so tempted to say cheeseburgers 
That's going to be an all-around knife for my wife. She doesn't use any gyuto because she finds them too long. So she uses 150 pettys for all tasks. And with this knife I hope she could learn the benefits of pinch grip. I could have bough santoku, but when I saw those Haburn knives I couldn't resist


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## Matus (Mar 11, 2014)

I indeed love the way it looks, but I would a bit unsure about the edge and very pointy tip. Please do let us know how it works once it arrives.


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## andre s (Mar 20, 2014)

In addition to some other requirements, the original post mentioned wanting some blade "toughness" or chip resistance. some members recommended very high hrc knives (e.g. blazen & yoshikane). are these considered tough? I would have guessed them to be chip prone because of the high HRC but i'm not sure if i'm over-generalizing. does it depend on the maker / heat treat? I'm curious to know if other members have high HRC / PM blades that they consider tough.


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## James (Mar 20, 2014)

I believe it depends on both the steel and the heat treat/maker. I like to think of steel like steak; a lousy chef will ruin a $30/lb dry aged steak. With the same steak, a good chef will cook up a perfectly seasoned medium rare piece of meat with a great crust. For what it's worth, I find my saji r2 gyuto is tougher than my hattori hd and they're about equally as thin behind the edge. The saji should clock in at 62-63 HRc while the hattori is ~ 60.


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## JDA_NC (Mar 21, 2014)

It seems like the OP has made up their mind on the subject, but just for further discussion....

I love MAC knives. It was my first 'real' (J-)knife and it has seen more abuse than most will probably put a knife through and just has that right feel to me. The handle, the balance, the weight -- it fits like a glove. Every time I pick it up, years later, it makes me happy.

But even though it is thinner and lighter, the (Gesshin) Ginga stainless is an amazing knife. Edge retention, ease of sharpening, sheer cutting ability - it continues to amaze me. I can't recommend them enough. It will require a higher degree of attention/knife skills during use but I see no reason why a Ginga couldn't be a workhorse. I use mine for practically everything.


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## Benuser (Mar 21, 2014)

andre s said:


> In addition to some other requirements, the original post mentioned wanting some blade "toughness" or chip resistance. some members recommended very high hrc knives (e.g. blazen & yoshikane). are these considered tough? I would have guessed them to be chip prone because of the high HRC but i'm not sure if i'm over-generalizing. does it depend on the maker / heat treat? I'm curious to know if other members have high HRC / PM blades that they consider tough.


Sharp.


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## labor of love (Mar 21, 2014)

Watanabe pro line and gengetsu carbon are both high hardness knives that have a good amount of toughness in my experience.


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## rodneyat (Mar 21, 2014)

Benuser said:


> Hiromoto G3



I would second this. Way under your budget and for an all stainless knife. The OOTB edge is quite good and the knife is light and easy to use. 

A few have mentioned the carbonext. But, if you are really looking for stainless, this is not the knife. It is "stain resistant", not stainless. It will still rust. Yes, it's easy to clean but if you don't want to deal with that. Then stay away from the carbonext. 

On the higher side of your budget, the Gesshin Ginga is also quite nice.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 21, 2014)

rodneyat said:


> I would second this. Way under your budget and for an all stainless knife. The OOTB edge is quite good and the knife is light and easy to use.
> 
> A few have mentioned the carbonext. But, if you are really looking for stainless, this is not the knife. It is "stain resistant", not stainless. It will still rust. Yes, it's easy to clean but if you don't want to deal with that. Then stay away from the carbonext.
> 
> On the higher side of your budget, the Gesshin Ginga is also quite nice.



CarboNEXT will rust? In what universe? Have you owned one? Yes, it will discolor. No, it will not rust, no more than any stainless knife.


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## rodneyat (Mar 21, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> CarboNEXT will rust? In what universe? Have you owned one? Yes, it will discolor. No, it will not rust, no more than any stainless knife.



Yes, I should have said discolor...not rust.


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## Talim (Mar 21, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> CarboNEXT will rust? In what universe? Have you owned one? Yes, it will discolor. No, it will not rust, no more than any stainless knife.



I'm pretty sure it will rust given the "right" environment. Well, at least in this universe. And not all "stainless" react the same. I have an AEBL which can readily form rust spots if left wet for too long.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 21, 2014)

Talim said:


> I'm pretty sure it will rust given the "right" environment. Well, at least in this universe. And not all "stainless" react the same. I have an AEBL which can readily form rust spots if left wet for too long.



Excuse my hyperbole. Yes, any steel, stainless or not, will rust under the right conditions, but a CarboNEXT is as resistant to rust as any "normal" stainless blade, at least in my experience. Soft iron clad knives like a Shigefusa, or a monosteel carbon like a Fujiwara FKH, will develop rust in a fraction of the time a stainless or semi-stainless knife will. In the context of required care for your knife, I group the CarboNEXT in with stainless. Which was the point when replying to the OP's request.


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## G-rat (Mar 21, 2014)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> CarboNEXT will rust? In what universe? Have you owned one? Yes, it will discolor. No, it will not rust, no more than any stainless knife.


Would just like to state that mine rusted. Wiped it dry with a semi damp towel. Left it inside the knife guard in my knife bag for two days and it had bright orange rust spots. A Carbonext can rust. Still love mine and would recommend it highly.


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## panda (Mar 21, 2014)

Carbonext to me is also stainless, it takes a slighter keener edge and is slightly easier to sharpen but still behaves and feels very much like stainless.


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## Matus (Mar 21, 2014)

I do appreciate that you guys keep the thread moving even though I have decided to get a custom knife  (BTW, there could be some update in about a week).

On the rust topic - we have two sets of kitchen cutlery (one is WMF - a relatively high quality german product) - both are standard 18/10 stainless steel. Both developed some rust/discolouration spots after just few times in dishwasher (in our previous apartment, we do not have one right now). After all stainless means exactly that stain LESS and not does not stain at all. It is only question of how aggressive is the environment whether given steel will start to rust/stain.


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## keegan (May 3, 2014)

Second for Gesshin Ginga, but I'd go Wa handle. Love that knife.


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## JBroida (May 4, 2014)

Matus said:


> After all stainless means exactly that stain LESS and not does not stain at all. It is only question of how aggressive is the environment whether given steel will start to rust/stain.



+1 (a very BIG +1)


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## Keith Sinclair (May 6, 2014)

mhlee said:


> +1 The term "workhorse" meaning a thicker knife is puzzling to me. Im not a pro, but I would consider a "workhorse" to be the knife that let's me perform the most amount of work for the longest period of time comfortably. For me, my Gesshin Ginga is still the most comfortable knife to use when I've had to cut for hours at a time.



True even in a pro environment a knife that cuts well with fruits vegitables & meat with out bone can be a workhorse. A light thin Japanese gyuto can go thru massive amounts of food well. When they wear down buy another one. Most food cut is not hard,the small % that is you need a heavier knife or cleaver. You need several knives in your bag. Knife care is always important, but you do not have to baby a knife like gesshin ginga, Konosuke, or Sakai Yusuke. They are quite capable for hours of cutting.


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