# Nicest steel to sharpen?



## captaincaed (May 8, 2022)

I’ve accumulated a fair number of stones. Some are best paired with higher-alloyed/PM steels and leave good edges. Some leave really killer edges, but seem to really only be effective on low alloy carbon steels.

So my question for the group, is there a knife/steel that just seems to take a great edge from whichever stone you throw at it? A steel that really showcases what a stone will do, and what makes it different? A steel that is sort of a perfect blank canvas for showing off any stone’s abilities.

So far my best candidate is Kochi’s V2 steel. Hard, simple. Also pretty damn happy with ShiHan A2, but I tend to like toothy, so not sure how it does over a wide range. I haven’t sharpened AEB-L, but the passarounds I’ve used had some great edges, and it seems fine-grained and nice.

On the far other end of the spectrum are MagnaCut and D2, and every “mystery PM” I’ve used.


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## refcast (May 8, 2022)

Iwasaki tamahagane is the easiest to sharpen of ones I've tried. Feels like soft iron, and split hair easier than anything else, aside from other tamahagane razors. But it's definitely hard like white steel. Other tamahagane razors didn't sharpen as easily or as nice feeling

I also agree with kochi v2, resemble iwasaki tamahagane in quite a few ways. Iwasaki tamahagane is like that but one and half tiers more easy to sharpen and sharp. The used and rusty kamisori are much cheaper than the straight razors.


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## blokey (May 8, 2022)

From my very limited experience I find Tanaka B2 takes good response to the stone, another one is CCK 1302, it will become screaming sharp in few swaps, but some times it could be too quick to sharpen. My Shi.Han A2 is still on order, he did tell me he find A2 has a better edge forming quality than 52100, and could have a great edge even on coarser stone.


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## captaincaed (May 8, 2022)

Ok that's interesting, I have one of each and thought I was nuts. I thought maybe I got lucky on thr A2, since 52100 is meant to have such a fine grain and carbide size.


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## refcast (May 8, 2022)

I also agree on cck 1302, haha, I thought it was so easy to sharpen


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## cotedupy (May 8, 2022)

Aogami 2 is my favourite steel to sharpen, though perhaps that's because it's what I do most. And favourite / nicest might be slightly different answer to this bit...



captaincaed said:


> A steel that really showcases what a stone will do, and what makes it different? A steel that is sort of a perfect blank canvas for showing off any stone’s abilities.



Which is a very interesting question, and was something I was thinking about the other day. Obviously there are going to be various factors that influence the level of fidelity with which a particular stone's character translates through to the edge, so interested to hear what others think in regards to steels. I need to play around with it more!


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## M1k3 (May 8, 2022)

White #1, 52100 and A2/Chromax (Takamura Chromax was so easy to sharpen, probably the thinness helped also).


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## daniel_il (May 8, 2022)

usually w1 takes the best edge for me. to be more specific i really like Heiji carbon, anything from TF, watoyama b2, from western makers i would say raquin&yanick both really easy to sharpen and takes a great edge.


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## esoo (May 8, 2022)

Kono HD2 I found stupid easy to sharpen and kept that edge for a long time.


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## MrHiggins (May 8, 2022)

I'd echo the folks who gave a nod to hard white steels. White 1 is probably my favorite to sharpen. Kochi V2 is right up there, for sure. I really want to try Heiji's carbon.


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## MSicardCutlery (May 8, 2022)

Any plain iron/carbon alloy, (1095/1084), they're just easy, and they act like they want to be sharp. Then the low alloy steels, 52100, W2, O1 (being possibly the worst), and for stainless my bet is that AEB-L is at the top of the list, 420 is pretty easy to cut, but it just doesn't have quite the same bite to it. That said, my experience is pretty much limited to western made steels.


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## jffallred (May 8, 2022)

White no 1, and yes toss in 1095 type higher carbons.. especially in the 60-63 hrc range. I dont have loads of experince with PM / higher alloyed steels, as my own preference tends toward the simple and traditional, and my customers tend to own cheap knives, but I will say Ive enjoyed putting an edge on D2, of all things. Can be a bit stubborn but with good stones the acuity and bite thats attainable is really something.


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## ethompson (May 8, 2022)

Honestly, I think any simple tool steel will work for this. There is so much else to cutting and sharpening feeling besides just steel choice that to really be able to split hairs on the edges from different but similar stones you need to be intimately familiar with the exact knife in hand. For me that’s my Mazaki gyuto and ZKramer 52100


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## captaincaed (May 8, 2022)

It seems like softer/finer carbide structure will probably be able to best “showcase” what a stone can do. You’re just working with a more homogenous material, so grinding it away will reveal exactly what the stone is doing. Also seems like you want it hard, but not too hard.

If you grate cheddar, you’ll see the exact track marks of the grater.

If you grate parmesan, you’ll see the protein crystals protruding.

If you try to grate brie…good luck.

So the question is, which steel is cheddar? White 2 seems like a common choice for a reason, but Blue 2 behaves pretty predictably as well. How do white/blue#1 compare in this sense?


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## ethompson (May 8, 2022)

Theoretically, I feel like white #1 would be the ideal stone tester. In practice, I think only the very, very most knowledgeable amongst us could tell the difference between blades identical other than steel choice.

I spend probably a couple hours a week on the stones refurbing, sharpening, polishing, etc. So I have a pretty good feel for what is going on I think. If you gave me 5 blades - Aogami 1/2, Shirogami 1/2, and 52100 - that were identical in every way other than steel, I'd be chuffed to bits if after a few days I correctly identified 2 or 3 out of 5. 

But to answer the question, I'd go with a mono-steel 52100, 26c3, or 52100 at 62-63 hrc for my theoretical stone testing blade.


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## captaincaed (May 8, 2022)

ethompson said:


> If you gave me 5 blades - Aogami 1/2, Shirogami 1/2, and 52100 - that were identical in every way other than steel, I'd be chuffed to bits if after a few days I correctly identified 2 or 3 out of 5.


I think it's the rare, very experienced sharpener who can do better than a roll-of-the-dice on this one! I totally agree. If you have advance knowledge, I think it can help you strategize, but going in blind, I think you're limited to thinking in categories.

I guess what I mean is this - has anyone found a brand where, any time they sharpen it, they go "wow, that came out just how I wanted"?


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## branwell (May 8, 2022)

For me, carbons in general get scary sharp easer. Like AS and 52100 most. For stainless, hard AEBL is easy to sharpen and works well.


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## Matt Jacobs (May 8, 2022)

For me no question AEB-L.


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## Benuser (May 9, 2022)

A lot will depend on the Heat Treatment, and which properties that maker wanted to emphasise. That makes sweeping statements of just a relative value. That being said, for stainless I like 14C28. Some come with surprisingly easy sharpening 440C. Difficult carbons are very rare. Some makers manage to make deburring of AS a bit more difficult. Otherwise, Sandvik's 20C, C75W, White#2, Blue#2, AS.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (May 9, 2022)

Shigenobu, TF white 1, TF AS, Tsukasa white 2, some nice tamahaganes in there, and pretty much anything @refcast says is fun


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## cotedupy (May 9, 2022)

ethompson said:


> If you gave me 5 blades - Aogami 1/2, Shirogami 1/2, and 52100 - that were identical in every way other than steel, I'd be chuffed to bits if after a few days I correctly identified 2 or 3 out of 5.




You think...? I reckon I'd have a decent enough stab (ho ho) at this. Though I'd probably fall down on the differences between 1 and 2 of the paper steels - I haven't sharpened enough Aogami or Shirogami #1s to really know them.

---

That tamahagane on the kamisori of yours has got to be right up there with nicest / best steels to sharpen too. Made me feel like a Japanese razor pro straight off the bat!


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## ethompson (May 9, 2022)

cotedupy said:


> You think...? I reckon I'd have a decent enough stab (ho ho) at this. Though I'd probably fall down on the differences between 1 and 2 of the paper steels - I haven't sharpened enough Aogami or Shirogami #1s to really know them.
> 
> ---
> 
> That tamahagane on the kamisori of yours has got to be right up there with nicest / best steels to sharpen too. Made me feel like a Japanese razor pro straight off the bat!


Maybe I am off, I'd love to trial it somehow... But I really do think that all else held equal (it never is tho) any simple tool steel can easily take a keen edge and hold it well. I think I could tell aogami super from white 1 easy enough, but white 2 from blue 2, idk... The more knives I use and sharpen the less I have come to care about the exact steel composition.

That razor is the best edge taking steel I've ever used. I miss it, but it would've just languished forever in a drawer not getting used. I've got a new nakiri that gives it a very close run for its money though - need to get around to fully refinishing that one...


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## KO88 (May 9, 2022)

Talking about sharpening on Jnats...

I love Shigefusa steel... 
Also Toyama B2 works great for me - combination of super sharp edge and how long it holds is so nice... Killer combo is Natsuya and some harder and fine stuff like Nakayama suita both with high preasure. Couple edge leading strops with higher angle on razor Jnat and it s killer.

With westerns I ve very positive experience with Bryans 145SC.


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## Tapio (May 9, 2022)

I like high carbon low alloy steel the most. Roselli’s UHC steel capable of reaching hardness values up to 66-68 HRC and 1.8 % carbon content is my favorite.


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## Nagakin (May 9, 2022)

I’ll put in a vote for Raquin 145sc too. The least effort to a *** edge on a couple knives I’ve tried.


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## Marcelo Amaral (May 9, 2022)

How thin a blade is behind the edge and the kind of grind helps greatly in sharpening it.

Most good makers' carbon blades can be sharpened easily and their bevel can be reset using only naturals if they are thin behind the edge, in my experience. Gesshin Kagekiyo Blue #1 was a bit harder to sharpen despite its thinness behind the edge and its wide bevels. On the other hand, it stays sharp for a long time in my experience. Tesshu white#2 was the easiest to sharpen, but it doesn't really stay sharp for a long time.

As for stainless, aeb-l is the winner for me.


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## Loam (May 9, 2022)

I really like my Watanabe blue #2 and my Yoshikane in white #2. Also, I find Heiji semistainless steel really fun to sharpen. Never sharpened white #1.


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## milas555 (May 9, 2022)

When I buy a new stone my first test is Takeda (AS) and the second is Mikami (B1) or Shirataka (B1) - the knives look like they are from a shed or a shoemaker's workshop, but steel and HT are first class and are very helpful in assessing the stone.


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## Bodine (May 9, 2022)

How is 1.2519 on stones?


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## LostHighway (May 9, 2022)

Bodine said:


> How is 1.2519 on stones?



Based primarily on Isasmedjan's work I don't find it to be that much different from harder (64 hrc) examples of B2. 1.2519 has slightly more chromium and a tiny amount of vanadium (~0.2%) but is otherwise quite similar to B2.


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## milas555 (May 9, 2022)

Bodine said:


> How is 1.2519 on stones?


From Benjamin Kamon definitely very enjoyable!


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## Benuser (May 9, 2022)

Bodine said:


> How is 1.2519 on stones?


With the Robert Herders, don't take the angles too low. Deburring may take some time.


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## captaincaed (May 9, 2022)

milas555 said:


> When I buy a new stone my first test is Takeda (AS) and the second is Mikami (B1) or Shirataka (B1) - the knives look like they are from a shed or a shoemaker's workshop, but steel and HT are first class and are very helpful in assessing the stone.


This is what I'm looking for


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## HumbleHomeCook (May 9, 2022)

As others have said, heat treat and geometry aside, my current favorites are:

- Whatever flavor of SK steel is used in Masakane, Sakai Kikumori, etc. is awesome on Arkansas stones. A lot of simpler steels respond well to Arks.

- The Aogami family, particularly Super, on synthetics (don't have JNATs) are fantastic.

- K390 on diamond is surprisingly excellent. As is S90V and XHP.

I don't have a lot of steels that I dislike. It's mostly a challenge of figuring them out and the best approach and proper tools. For sure I've run up on crap or terrible geometry and I've has some specific blades in good steels that have had issues, but by and large, I just try things out until I find something that works. 

Also, our definitions of good edges can vary.


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## Benuser (May 10, 2022)

I like the idea of using Arkansas with SK. As it isn't the finest grained steel as far as I've seen, better enhance its properties than fighting them.


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## Ggmerino (May 10, 2022)

TF White #1 always treats me nice- makes me feel like a pro and practically sharpens itself. Never tried Aebl though, but will soon.


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## Troopah_Knives (May 10, 2022)

I run pretty much all diamond stones these days and I find that hardness is the biggest factor in how easy it is to sharpen steel. All else being equal harder steels are easier to sharpen (assume the HT is good and you don't have excessive RA). On conventional stones, I'd find steels like1080 at a fairly high hardness probably because they have nearly zero carbide volume.


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## Benuser (May 10, 2022)

Benuser said:


> With the Robert Herders, don't take the angles too low. Deburring may take some time.


Tried again, after years. Takes and holds the lowest angles, provided you start with a coarse stone.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 11, 2022)

My mono steel Herders get sharp just getting near a stone. As do my Japanese carbons.


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## Benuser (May 11, 2022)

Keith Sinclair said:


> My mono steel Herders get sharp just getting near a stone. As do my Japanese carbons.


This was specifically about the 1.2519 used in the K-series and the Lignum. In that respect very different from the standard series or the 1922.


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## Desert Rat (May 13, 2022)

Anyone know what steel it is that Herder is using in their carbon knifes?


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## jwthaparc (May 13, 2022)

My favorite steels to sharpen are the ones with the highest HRC. Thin geometry helps too. One of the best I've had to sharpen was this gyuto a customer sent to me in r2. I could tell by the feeling on the stone it was quite hard. 

That thing took a crazy edge. With hardly any effort. 

Of the knives I own, my maxamet, and k390 are my favourites, but I'm probably an odd ball when it comes to that. They don't give me any trouble when I use my diamond stones and plates. Being extremely hard, and thin behind the edge they will take amazing edges though.


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## Deadboxhero (May 14, 2022)

Spicy White 26C3 at +65rc with good heat treatment and geometry is best.


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## HumbleHomeCook (May 14, 2022)

Deadboxhero said:


> Spicy White 26C3 at +65rc with good heat treatment and geometry is best.



You mean something like this?


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## jwthaparc (May 14, 2022)

Wow. I somehow never really noticed 26c3. Basically white steel with a bit of chromium, which I'm guessing makes it's just a bit easier to heat treat, but I'm no metallurgist. I honestly wouldn't have expected the rockwell numbers I just saw on alpha knife supply though. They were saying they got it to around 68 HRC, which I don't run into often, outside of stuff like maxamet, and similar alloys. 

Definitely more interesting than I would have thought at first glance, but then again a lot of steels can be.


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## EricEricEric (May 14, 2022)

Tanaka B1


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## Deadboxhero (May 14, 2022)

jwthaparc said:


> Wow. I somehow never really noticed 26c3. Basically white steel with a bit of chromium, which I'm guessing makes it's just a bit easier to heat treat, but I'm no metallurgist. I honestly wouldn't have expected the rockwell numbers I just saw on alpha knife supply though. They were saying they got it to around 68 HRC, which I don't run into often, outside of stuff like maxamet, and similar alloys.
> 
> Definitely more interesting than I would have thought at first glance, but then again a lot of steels can be.


That's for the as quenched hardness using there method.

From AKS "slightly under 68 HRC"

The AQ can be higher if using a custom process and subsequently left at a higher tempered hardness.


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## jwthaparc (May 14, 2022)

Deadboxhero said:


> That's for the as quenched hardness using there method.
> 
> From AKS "slightly under 68 HRC"
> 
> The AQ can be higher if using a custom process and subsequently left at a higher tempered hardness.


Ok that makes sense, still not too bad. I suppose the final Rockwell will end up maybe just above numbers you would see with 52100 (on the upper end) or in the same range.


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## cotedupy (May 15, 2022)

Here is a tangentially related observation that I was talking about with someone a few weeks back. I'd made myself a small kangaroo leather bench strop, and was having a proper look at it against paper stropping for the first time. These were my initial impressions:

_
'It’s been quite a while since I’ve stropped a knife on leather, and I don’t think I’d ever really done a direct side-by-side on two knives off the same stone. But I wasn’t expecting the difference to be so marked.

Roo leather massively increases refinement and overall ‘sharpness’ in comparison to (in this case) newspaper. It completely takes out the bite and aggression of the stone’s finish, and is far better, or more efficacious, for what people might traditionally consider as stropping.

Paper by comparison feels like it’s not really doing a huge amount at all. Perhaps little more than simply cleaning the edge of any burr or metal, in the same way linen might for a razor. It maintains a fidelity from the stone which I rather like, though would probably hide fewer flaws in technique because of that. You certainly have to deburr very well when stropping on paper.

Perhaps that verdict isn’t surprising when you think about why people might strop razors on leather, still - I hadn’t expected it to be so stark.

For kitchen knives I would probably be inclined to leather strop if finishing on a lower grit (sub 1k say) stone, and paper strop above that or on naturals. Though tbh it’s really just a matter of what kind of edges one likes.'
_

I don't know if anybody else has seen this effect? Kangaroo leather is meant to be quite good for this kind of highly refined stropping I understand, maybe with other types it's less noticeable...


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## captaincaed (May 16, 2022)

I have never liked a leather stropped knife edge. Ever. For exactly that reason. 

Maybe it makes sense if you’re sharpening up to 10/12k. 

Denim and chromox can sometimes help after a mid grit stone. I mostly use it with razors for complete deburring, but always finish on the stone after.


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## cotedupy (May 16, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> I have never liked a leather stropped knife edge. Ever. For exactly that reason.
> 
> Maybe it makes sense if you’re sharpening up to 10/12k.
> 
> Denim and chromox can sometimes help after a mid grit stone. I mostly use it with razors for complete deburring, but always finish on the stone after.




Ah, always good to know that my impressions of things aren't completely off / do actually chime with others' experiences. And yeah - I can't say I'm a particular convert to leather on knives. I'm still a cardboard n shirtsleeve kinda guy!


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## ethompson (May 16, 2022)

I agree that over-stropped edges are good for popping hairs and not much else when it comes to kitchen cutlery. I've experienced shorter edge life and less bite than needed when I get too vigorous with the strop. I will still occasionally use my kangaroo strop on single bevels where I am looking for maximum refinement, but even then only for a few passes. I do have a plain leather strop that is loaded with diamond (1 micron maybe?) spray and I have had good luck using that after a coarser stone, usually my Aoto (1.5-2k ish). Again just a few passes. Its not my preferred method, but I can get most of my knives back to popping hairs and dicing tomatoes in about 2 or 3 minutes with that method, so good for when I just can't be bothered to pull out multiple stones, set up a sink bridge, and focus enough to deburr fully on stones.

Back to the subject of best steels to sharpen, Mikami Masayuki blue 1 is definitely up there. Lucky for everyone @refcast is basically giving one away in BST right now. The other one for me that jumps out is Nagahiro, a chisel smith who made a few knives - that steel is insanely fun to sharpen and use.


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## Desert Rat (May 16, 2022)

captaincaed said:


> I have never liked a leather stropped knife edge. Ever. For exactly that reason.
> 
> Maybe it makes sense if you’re sharpening up to 10/12k.
> 
> Denim and chromox can sometimes help after a mid grit stone. I mostly use it with razors for complete deburring, but always finish on the stone after.


Yes, newspaper with knifes or I don't even bother at times. Leather or loaded leather for woodworking tools.

The smoother edges work nice with wood but I am also forced by their very nature to be more of a burr sharpener where as with knifes I can reduce the burr as I go along.


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## jwthaparc (May 17, 2022)

I have simplified my sharpening over time. If I'm not making repairs, or sharpening something completely rounded. I usually only use my 240/400 venev basically everything, then I finish with 1 micron diamond spray on leather.

The 400 side is supposed to be about equal to 600 jis. So doing that with the diamond afterwards really tends to give me what I'm looking for in just about any situation, if I want really toothy I just do 240 and then strop. 


I don't really notice the edge getting over polished using this setup.


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## Kawa (May 18, 2022)

Thats only logical.

What you do is, a few strokes on 15.000 gritt after finishing on a 600 stone.
You can't overpolish this way. You have huge teeth this way and you are barely able to scratch the top of those huge teeth.


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