# German knife of coolness?



## Matthew Dodge (Apr 18, 2021)

So someone I know is on the market for a knife. Based on what she does everyday I really feel a German knife would be of more use to her than a Japanese knife. She wants it to look good tho cause who doesn't right. Can anyone recommend a German Knife that is still of high quality that still looks good. Like nice wood handel, damascus blade or both. Looking at 500 or less.


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## dafox (Apr 18, 2021)

Matthew Dodge said:


> So someone I know is on the market for a knife. Based on what she does everyday I really feel a German knife would be of more use to her than a Japanese knife. She wants it to look good tho cause who doesn't right. Can anyone recommend a German Knife that is still of high quality that still looks good. Like nice wood handel, damascus blade or both. Looking at 500 or less.


A German knife for the profile or softer steel or both?


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## HumbleHomeCook (Apr 18, 2021)

Messermeister Royale Elite Series | knifemerchant.com


The Royale Elite knives have an ergonomic unfinished natural walnut wood handle. Royale Elite knives are similar to the Meridian Elite; the blade, bolster and tang are one piece of hot-drop forged German steel.



www.knifemerchant.com


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## Matthew Dodge (Apr 18, 2021)

dafox said:


> A German knife for the profile or softer steel or both?


Mainly for the profile. It is what she is used to and she cuts alot of harder veg and larger fruits. But doesn't need finer cuts. Mainly rough chopping.


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## Matthew Dodge (Apr 18, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Messermeister Royale Elite Series | knifemerchant.com
> 
> 
> The Royale Elite knives have an ergonomic unfinished natural walnut wood handle. Royale Elite knives are similar to the Meridian Elite; the blade, bolster and tang are one piece of hot-drop forged German steel.
> ...


That is a great knife to consider thank you. I am pretty sure she wants the look of the damascus weather she can really have it all I don't know.


HumbleHomeCook said:


> Messermeister Royale Elite Series | knifemerchant.com
> 
> 
> The Royale Elite knives have an ergonomic unfinished natural walnut wood handle. Royale Elite knives are similar to the Meridian Elite; the blade, bolster and tang are one piece of hot-drop forged German steel.
> ...


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## dafox (Apr 18, 2021)

Matthew Dodge said:


> Mainly for the profile. It is what she is used to and she cuts alot of harder veg and larger fruits. But doesn't need finer cuts. Mainly rough chopping.


With harder vegys its probably best that she also have the softer German steel. So that rules out the Japanese made German profile knives like Shun- vg10, probably not durable enough for this user.


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## esoo (Apr 18, 2021)

$500CAD or $500USD?

And you don't say length?

What about the Zwilling Kramer Damacus? I've never used it, but I've got the carbon and used the plain stainless. The Damacus is SG2, and I suspect it'll be thicker than a Japanese blade which will it quite robust. She should be able to do most anything with it as I've see a Miyabi Birchwood (SG2 as well and thinner) used to spatchcock a chicken.


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## Matthew Dodge (Apr 19, 2021)

esoo said:


> $500CAD or $500USD?
> 
> And you don't say length?
> 
> What about the Zwilling Kramer Damacus? I've never used it, but I've got the carbon and used the plain stainless. The Damacus is SG2, and I suspect it'll be thicker than a Japanese blade which will it quite robust. She should be able to do most anything with it as I've see a Miyabi Birchwood (SG2 as well and thinner) used to spatchcock a chicken.


8 inch would be best again what she is used to. I taught her to use a knife using a henkel 5 star. She still needs practice tbh. I am not her Chef but I am a Chef and we live together. From what I can tell her Chef has alot of bad habits so teaching her has been a little back and forth. Hence I want her to have a already comfortable fit for her hand. I looked at the zwilling Kramer since you have used it I was wondering how comfortable would it be switching from a 5 star to this is it that much taller? And regarding price it is only a ball park. I spend anywhere up to 1000 on a knife if I want it. Would spend more if I could. So if the right knife is more it is more.


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## esoo (Apr 19, 2021)

So I haven't used the 5 star but the have used the 4 star. As someone who pinch grips I find the transition seamless between the 4 star and the ZKramer. 

I've used the 8" Carbon, 10" Carbon and the 10" plain Stainless. All of them feel very similar in the hand. All were balanced nicely at the pinch. I thought the plain Stainless seemed a bit soulless compared the carbons. My only knock on the 8" carbon to me was that it seemed heavy for the length. 

As for the heel height, a big question there would be the overall ergonomic situation. How tall she is and board height would have an effect on if she should think it was too tall.


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## Michi (Apr 19, 2021)

I have the 240mm Kramer-Zwilling Damascus. It's a decent knife. I enjoy the tall heel, and the profile works well in a 240, despite the strong curvature. It's robust, gets really sharp with a bit of patience, and holds its edge for a long time. It's not quite a workhorse, but getting close to it. You can treat it roughly, and it won't mind.


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## Matthew Dodge (Apr 19, 2021)

esoo said:


> So I haven't used the 5 star but the have used the 4 star. As someone who pinch grips I find the transition seamless between the 4 star and the ZKramer.
> 
> I've used the 8" Carbon, 10" Carbon and the 10" plain Stainless. All of them feel very similar in the hand. All were balanced nicely at the pinch. I thought the plain Stainless seemed a bit soulless compared the carbons. My only knock on the 8" carbon to me was that it seemed heavy for the length.
> 
> As for the heel height, a big question there would be the overall ergonomic situation. How tall she is and board height would have an effect on if she should think it was too tall.


Seems like this could be the knife for her thanks everyone


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## billyO (Apr 20, 2021)

Matthew Dodge said:


> I am pretty sure she wants the look of the damascus


I'll suggest doing some research to find a local bladesmith. I'm a member of the NWBA (Northwest Blacksmith Assn) and I know at least 5-6 smiths here in the PNW who would be able to make a great damascus blade for $500.
Doing an internet search for knife making forums would be one way to find a local maker...


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## @ftermath (Apr 20, 2021)

Matthew Dodge said:


> Seems like this could be the knife for her thanks everyone


FWIW I hated the 8” ZKramer Damascus that I had. It was one of only a few knives that I flat out did not like and thinner at the spine than the 8” ZKramer Carbon I had. The Damascus was very abrasive causing it to move through food much less efficiently than the carbon and pretty much any other knife that I’ve owner. If I were recommending a Damascus knife to a non-knife nerd (I wouldn’t!), it would be something that had a polish on the blade road if not the entire blade.


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## Matthew Dodge (Apr 20, 2021)

@ftermath said:


> FWIW I hated the 8” ZKramer Damascus that I had. It was one of only a few knives that I flat out did not like and thinner at the spine than the 8” ZKramer Carbon I had. The Damascus was very abrasive causing it to move through food much less efficiently than the carbon and pretty much any other knife that I’ve owner. If I were recommending a Damascus knife to a non-knife nerd (I wouldn’t!), it would be something that had a polish on the blade road if not the entire blade.


Well we live together so I will probably look after it for her but thanks for the heads up. I have actually been thinking on the Yaxell super gou I have one sure not German but I find it pretty durable and the handle is pretty western. Might be a good knife for her to transition with.


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## Matthew Dodge (Apr 20, 2021)

billyO said:


> I'll suggest doing some research to find a local bladesmith. I'm a member of the NWBA (Northwest Blacksmith Assn) and I know at least 5-6 smiths here in the PNW who would be able to make a great damascus blade for $500.
> Doing an internet search for knife making forums would be one way to find a local maker...


I tried looking local one guy. I live in Ontario. Which is like the lock down capital of the world right now. Or at least Canada. Nothing non essential is open.


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## jsph (Apr 22, 2021)

connecting some of the various comments and directions above: in canada, it will be very hard to get a carbon zkramer and even though there are many sources for the damascus / sg2 zkramer, it will be way over-priced; meanwhile, the cheaper stainless zkramer is fine and has a good steel and probably readily available (though, again, a bit over-priced) but, as mentioned elsewhere, is a little boring somehow. but it's ok. @ftermath is right, the etched damascus has a really unpleasant amount of drag as it goes through food. again, in canada, and if looking for german style, and if damascus isn't a consideration necessarily after all, it's not ridiculous to go back to thinking of, e.g., a wusthof 8" or 9" classic with a half-bolster, available from a number of places online during the lock-down, with the 8" being around $150cdn or less and the 8" being around $195cdn, delivered. they look nice, "professional", and... uh... "classic" and work pretty well, and it could solve the problem / fill the gap for a long time. i would really really not say the same about the zwilling pro, for example, because even though the steel (fc61 = aeb-l) is very good, they are very handle-heavy and have a very clunky/weird profile, so not actually pleasant to use. you could also do some searching on amazon.ca to see what other options look nice. may or may not be in the calibre of quality and flash you're looking for this particular situation, but you can be the judge.


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## Alava.Coursolle (Apr 24, 2021)

The f. Dick 1778 is a very good option, plum handle, without complete bolster and the blade is a sandwich with a core of 61HRC


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## Qapla' (Apr 24, 2021)

Matthew Dodge said:


> I tried looking local one guy. I live in Ontario. Which is like the lock down capital of the world right now. Or at least Canada. Nothing non essential is open.


Then perhaps try other provinces eh? I'm aware of Vachon Knives and Couteaux Deva in Quebec, though Deva's likely above your budget. The forum's Canucks might be able to identify more makers in your region, or you can take BillyO's advice on who he might know.


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## billyO (Apr 24, 2021)

Here's what I got when I put it out to my contacts:



> Thomas Haslinger does nice chefs
> 
> Haslinger Custom Knives | Handcrafted Knives
> www.haslinger-culinary.com


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## Matthew Dodge (Apr 24, 2021)

I will check those out thank you.


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## jsph (Apr 24, 2021)

alava.coursolle (or others): would you happen to have any sense of how the f.dick 1778 compares to, say, the herder 1923, e.g., in terms of the grind and thinness behind the edge? i've heard many good comments about the 1923 but not come across the 1778. thanks very much.


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## Alava.Coursolle (Apr 25, 2021)

jsph said:


> alava.coursolle (or others): would you happen to have any sense of how the f.dick 1778 compares to, say, the herder 1923, e.g., in terms of the grind and thinness behind the edge? i've heard many good comments about the 1923 but not come across the 1778. thanks very much.



I suppose you mean the R.Herder 1922 series. Well, I have only had in my hands the F.Dick in a trade fair, and I have never had the 1922 line although I have had one "standard" Windmühlen knife and I would say they are a bit different one from another. the main one is the lack of bolster in the 1922, while the 1778 has one and I assume is heavier. The other main difference is the steel; the 1922 is carbon steel, the 1778 is a sandwich of _Double X VG 12 _(similar to VG10 but propietary).
I personally like the grind R.Herder makes, true Solingen grind. The F.Dick is more like a standard modern grind and profile.


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## Benuser (Apr 30, 2021)

This is the Herder 1922. In profile close to the Sabs. Balance point less forward, though. Tip lower than with modern Sabs. 


Narrow fingerguard, no virole.


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## Kgp (Apr 30, 2021)

Plenty of American smiths could fit this bill. Taylor Edgington, Alex Horn, Butch Harner, Tony Laseur, Dan Cauble. I have knives from all of them that were under $500. Also, our Russian friend, Markin, makes a beautiful blade.


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## billyO (May 3, 2021)

Here's another possibility. He wanted me to give you his e-mail: [email protected] 
I think he's in Thunder Bay?


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