# Tip of Carbon Blade Broke off a Little! Should I worry about it?



## TEWNCfarms (Apr 13, 2018)

So at my work I have to use plastic nsf cutting boards, and they catch my sharp thin carbon blade, and because of it my tip broke off some. After getting this Japanese knife I see now why western blades are better for heavy constant speedy use, instead of precise slower work like with higher end restaurants. Im always going going going I cant really take my time.

Should I just ride this out or is there something I can do to get rid of this and Hekp Prevent this from happening again?


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## Benuser (Apr 13, 2018)

Some makers have the tip slightly thicker. Others round it on purpose. You may ask yourself whether you really need a symmetric spear point, or can live with a rounded tip. In which case I wouldn't just work from the spine on, but do it only half way from the spine, and the other half from the edge.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 13, 2018)

Benuser said:


> Some makers have the tip slightly thicker. Others round it on purpose. You may ask yourself whether you really need a symmetric spear point, or can live with a rounded tip. In which case I wouldn't just work from the spine on, but do it only half way from the spine, and the other half from the edge.



What do you mean do it only from half way on the spine? Im sorry Im pretty fresh to this. And I mean the tip hasnt caused any problems so far... I would like to have a sharp point though (which it still is) so I can do some precise minor incisions.


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## pjotr (Apr 13, 2018)

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/22273-Does-this-knife-tip-chip-need-much-work


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 13, 2018)

pjotr said:


> http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/22273-Does-this-knife-tip-chip-need-much-work


awesome I appreciate that link. I guess my question, which I posed on that thread is, will it be more prone to chipping again if I leave the chip or if I fix the chip? Again, I Have to use those crappy hard plastic NSF cutting boards and they are horrible for my thin carbon japanese blade!


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## Pensacola Tiger (Apr 13, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> awesome I appreciate that link. I guess my question, which I posed on that thread is, will it be more prone to chipping again if I leave the chip or if I fix the chip? Again, I Have to use those crappy hard plastic NSF cutting boards and they are horrible for my thin carbon japanese blade!



Hard plastic NSF boards will tend to dull your edge quicker than a wood board, but losing a tip like you did is a technique issue more than a cutting board issue, IMO. 

It's been suggested elsewhere that you may want to create a somewhat rounded point that is less prone to digging into the board that a needle sharp point. Something to consider.

Rick


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 13, 2018)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Hard plastic NSF boards will tend to dull your edge quicker than a wood board, but losing a tip like you did is a technique issue more than a cutting board issue, IMO.
> 
> It's been suggested elsewhere that you may want to create a somewhat rounded point that is less prone to digging into the board that a needle sharp point. Something to consider.
> 
> Rick


Ahhh okay I see why now they said a rounder tip, thanks for explaining. Yeah Im trying to get out of the habit of rocking, and try to be able to slice/push/raise more often.


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## Chef Doom (Apr 18, 2018)

Leave the chip as is. Call it love marks. An endless reminder to your poor cutting technique. Proof that you really don't belong anywhere near a kitchen.

I can hear the chuckle from your Japanese blade now, enjoying your lack of understanding of the purity and hidden potential of the almighty Eastern steel.


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## panda (Apr 18, 2018)

ive broken the tip off pretty much every knife ive ever had to be honest and i never bother to fix it because it will gradually come back to a point with every sharpening.


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## Jovidah (Apr 18, 2018)

If you keep breaking tips because you prefer rocking knives, maybe you shouldn't try to change your technique but change the knife instead. In the end the knife is a tool to maximize your cooking efficiency...


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## brooksie967 (Apr 18, 2018)

Otto, is this you?


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## toddnmd (Apr 18, 2018)

The pointy end is going to be the thinnest and weakest part of the blade, so it is the mostly likely spot to break. If you restore that pointiness, future damage is more likely.
My suji had some recent damage to the tip, but it was more of an aesthetic issue than practical issue, since I don't use the tip very much. I used an Atoma plate to make it pointier, but I didn't restore the full point. It doesn't look as bad now, I didn't have to spend that much time, and there's less of a chance that I'll lose another mm or two in the future.


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## ThEoRy (Apr 18, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Prevent this from happening again?


It's not the board or the knife, it's your technique.

Push cut my friend.

And yes that's an easy fix. Turn the knife upside down and grind the spine about 3" from the point to the tip in a pulling motion only.


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## dough (Apr 18, 2018)

Just gotta say this is barely broke. It also doesnt matter what knife you use tips are gonna break or edges will need to be fixed thats just what happens when you use your tools and do work. Obviously you can refine your technique to the point you are just maintaining the profile/edge but there are definitely plenty of broken tips and chips that are part of learning. Also you might find you dont like certain profiles like thin tips and obviously a knife that has a thicker tip and isnt as hard will be less prone to chipping but it also wont cut the same nor hold as good of an edge.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 18, 2018)

Chef Doom said:


> Leave the chip as is. Call it love marks. An endless reminder to your poor cutting technique. Proof that you really don't belong anywhere near a kitchen.
> 
> I can hear the chuckle from your Japanese blade now, enjoying your lack of understanding of the purity and hidden potential of the almighty Eastern steel.


Haha oh the almighty eastern steel is definitely teaching me a thing or to. But that doesnt mean I dont belong in a kitchen, it just means Ive never used real Japanese steel, and also that I wasnt trained as a chef nor would I ever want to be called that stupid title, its just an arrogant word Cook! Ive learned from watching and Only bad western knives that are Made and Intended to rock. Mr. Chef (or arrogant cook) doom you couldnt handle working in the kitchen/restaurant I work in, just as I probably couldnt handle working in yours. Im no fancy cook, we dont pull out tweezers to plate, we cook real food thats delicious for Thousands of people in a day; slangin hash mayne. I bet I cook better grits, and chicken pastry (not dumblins, pastry), and especially pork/bbq/Eastern NC bbq (not that doctored sauced pork, only salt, pepper, and real ACV, no blueberry reduction creme frishe), than you e ever even tasted. Ive seen about 20 chefs come and go in a matter of two or three years, all of which Only 2 could handle working in that kitchen, and only two that could actually cook good food.



panda said:


> ive broken the tip off pretty much every knife ive ever had to be honest and i never bother to fix it because it will gradually come back to a point with every sharpening.


Yeah thats exactly what I was thinking.


Jovidah said:


> If you keep breaking tips because you prefer rocking knives, maybe you shouldn't try to change your technique but change the knife instead. In the end the knife is a tool to maximize your cooking efficiency...



Yeah Ive been specifically not rocking anymore, I dont want to go back to western knives...


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## labor of love (Apr 18, 2018)

OP, sh*t happens all the time at work-I chip tips all the time. Work on your technique more but with the hustle and bustle of kitchen life occasional damage like this is part of the reality. If nothing else you can practice resetting the tip in a way that works for you.
Dont sweat the small stuff. These are tools after all.


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## Jovidah (Apr 18, 2018)

You don't have to go all the way back to western knives to continue rock chopping; I've had no issue with the 'mid-range' Japanese knives around 60 HRC.

I think it's silly to just be derisive of rock-chopping or western technique; it is after all highly efficient. In the end the knife is a tool, and a better tool is supposed to make you work faster / more efficient, not slower...


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 18, 2018)

toddnmd said:


> The pointy end is going to be the thinnest and weakest part of the blade, so it is the mostly likely spot to break. If you restore that pointiness, future damage is more likely.
> My suji had some recent damage to the tip, but it was more of an aesthetic issue than practical issue, since I don't use the tip very much. I used an Atoma plate to make it pointier, but I didn't restore the full point. It doesn't look as bad now, I didn't have to spend that much time, and there's less of a chance that I'll lose another mm or two in the future.


Yeah exactly I think Im just going to leave it.


ThEoRy said:


> It's not the board or the knife, it's your technique.
> 
> Push cut my friend.
> 
> And yes that's an easy fix. Turn the knife upside down and grind the spine about 3" from the point to the tip in a pulling motion only.


Yeah thanks everyone for showing me the light on it being the technique, haha I was blaming the board, when its just my own fault.


dough said:


> Just gotta say this is barely broke. It also doesnt matter what knife you use tips are gonna break or edges will need to be fixed thats just what happens when you use your tools and do work. Obviously you can refine your technique to the point you are just maintaining the profile/edge but there are definitely plenty of broken tips and chips that are part of learning. Also you might find you dont like certain profiles like thin tips and obviously a knife that has a thicker tip and isnt as hard will be less prone to chipping but it also wont cut the same nor hold as good of an edge.


Yeah exactly


Jovidah said:


> You don't have to go all the way back to western knives to continue rock chopping; I've had no issue with the 'mid-range' Japanese knives around 60 HRC.
> 
> I think it's silly to just be derisive of rock-chopping or western technique; it is after all highly efficient. In the end the knife is a tool, and a better tool is supposed to make you work faster / more efficient, not slower...


Yeah youre right on that... thanks for saying that. Ill have to look into something like that for my next knife. Im thinking a Deba.


labor of love said:


> OP, sh*t happens all the time at work-I chip tips all the time. Work on your technique more but with the hustle and bustle of kitchen life occasional damage like this is part of the reality. If nothing else you can practice resetting the tip in a way that works for you.
> Dont sweat the small stuff. These are tools after all.


Yeah youre right, and like someone else said, its a beauty mark. And its a tool I need its going to have some wear and tear.

Thanks everyone for your help! Even you Chef Doom, Im sure you have a lot I could learn. What kind of chef are you? Fine dining? You watch chefs table?


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## Chef Doom (Apr 19, 2018)

TEWNCfarms said:


> Haha oh the almighty eastern steel is definitely teaching me a thing or to. But that doesnt mean I dont belong in a kitchen, it just means Ive never used real Japanese steel, and also that I wasnt trained as a chef nor would I ever want to be called that stupid title, its just an arrogant word Cook! Ive learned from watching and Only bad western knives that are Made and Intended to rock. Mr. Chef (or arrogant cook) doom you couldnt handle working in the kitchen/restaurant I work in, just as I probably couldnt handle working in yours. Im no fancy cook, we dont pull out tweezers to plate, we cook real food thats delicious for Thousands of people in a day; slangin hash mayne. I bet I cook better grits, and chicken pastry (not dumblins, pastry), and especially pork/bbq/Eastern NC bbq (not that doctored sauced pork, only salt, pepper, and real ACV, no blueberry reduction creme frishe), than you e ever even tasted. Ive seen about 20 chefs come and go in a matter of two or three years, all of which Only 2 could handle working in that kitchen, and only two that could actually cook good food.



That may be true, but chicken pastries are for the poor, pork is evil according to the bible, and I don't break the tips on knives.

Well, not MY knives. My friends knives are a different story &#128514;


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## Jovidah (Apr 19, 2018)

A deba is not meant to as 'a sturdier chef knife'.... it has a different role in mind (fish butchery). Also, gyutos can be perfectly fine for rock-chopping; it's just the steel type where you might make a different choice.


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## ThEoRy (Apr 19, 2018)

Jovidah said:


> A deba is not meant to as 'a sturdier chef knife'.... it has a different role in mind (fish butchery). Also, gyutos can be perfectly fine for rock-chopping; it's just the steel type where you might make a different choice.



Maybe he was thinking yo deba? Which that's fine for whacking heads and stuff but it's not a suitable gyuto replacement.


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## Jovidah (Apr 19, 2018)

Oh right forgot about western debas. Haven't ever used those but I guess with the spine thickness they don't exactly make great carrot cutters?


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## Benuser (Apr 19, 2018)

Jovidah said:


> Oh right forgot about western debas. Haven't ever used those but I guess with the spine thickness they don't exactly make great carrot cutters?



It depends. You can cut very thin slices with a thick knife, but going halfway through it will indeed cause cracking.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 23, 2018)

I've broken many point off knives over the years. Usually just maybe 1/8-inch or less but none were from poor cutting technique. I have a brick floor and anything that lands point first on it will suffer. The last one was a Murray Carter slicer about 2 weeks ago. My Chessie seems to have pulled it off the cutting board but I'm glad it didn't land point first on her! Bottom line, it took me about 5 minutes on a 400 grit stone to reshape the point. While not the same as when Murray made it, nothing really has changed in its cutting performance.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 23, 2018)

Chef Doom said:


> That may be true, but chicken pastries are for the poor, pork is evil according to the bible, and I don't break the tips on knives.
> 
> Well, not MY knives. My friends knives are a different story &#128514;


hahaha! man I tell you what though, if you have some of my (really my grandmas recipe) of chicken pastry it will Change Your Life! Including the pork too! I've already f%cked up though, I've the hair on the side of my head quite a few times, and I definitely wasn't supposed to do that according to The Law; side note I do Love me some JESUS! And HE Loves us all! No rules or regulations with HIM, and HE definitely wouldn't Ever Break the Tip of a Knife


Jovidah said:


> A deba is not meant to as 'a sturdier chef knife'.... it has a different role in mind (fish butchery). Also, gyutos can be perfectly fine for rock-chopping; it's just the steel type where you might make a different choice.


I know it's not "meant" to be a "sturdier chef Knife" but it Is a Thicker blade, intended for fish butchery like you said; but I can still use that for general purpose. It's not like a yanagabi which is so thin it's hard to just be chopping. But I don't like gyutos really, maybe I haven't found the one I like, but most are just like average chef knives; and I don't want a regular chef knife. Do you have some interesting gyutos you could suggest?


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 23, 2018)

ThEoRy said:


> Maybe he was thinking yo deba? Which that's fine for whacking heads and stuff but it's not a suitable gyuto replacement.





Jovidah said:


> Oh right forgot about western debas. Haven't ever used those but I guess with the spine thickness they don't exactly make great carrot cutters?





Benuser said:


> It depends. You can cut very thin slices with a thick knife, but going halfway through it will indeed cause cracking.


see I didn't really think of the thicker blade causing problem when it came to simple slicing of vegetables! Is this true?! I just liked how the deba had a Thick blade, but if it's going to cause problems then i'm really glad we've had this conversation!


Noodle Soup said:


> I've broken many point off knives over the years. Usually just maybe 1/8-inch or less but none were from poor cutting technique. I have a brick floor and anything that lands point first on it will suffer. The last one was a Murray Carter slicer about 2 weeks ago. My Chessie seems to have pulled it off the cutting board but I'm glad it didn't land point first on her! Bottom line, it took me about 5 minutes on a 400 grit stone to reshape the point. While not the same as when Murray made it, nothing really has changed in its cutting performance.


haha yeah thank THE LORD on that one! That would have been Pretty Horrible!


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## StonedEdge (Apr 24, 2018)

Wow this thread is all over the place...deba as a studier chef knife replacement? Why would you want a fillet knife as your daily driver? Also if you're breaking tips off, it's 100% your technique and not the board nor the knife and it probably means you're gunna trash a perfectly good deba anyway...KISS, keep it simple stup...


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## panda (Apr 24, 2018)

i've never seen someone break a tip off a knife from actual usage. it's always cause it gets banged up on something hard like the side of a table or on he floor..


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 24, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> Wow this thread is all over the place...deba as a studier chef knife replacement? Why would you want a fillet knife as your daily driver? Also if you're breaking tips off, it's 100% your technique and not the board nor the knife and it probably means you're gunna trash a perfectly good deba anyway...KISS, keep it simple stup...


Its not really a filet knife its a stubby chef knife really. I filet knife is like a small yanagabi. And its thicker so I dont think its going to break off.


panda said:


> i've never seen someone break a tip off a knife from actual usage. it's always cause it gets banged up on something hard like the side of a table or on he floor..


Youre welcome. Ive never broken a tip with any other knife but because this edge is so thin its broken off


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## StonedEdge (Apr 24, 2018)

First off it's yanagiba and it's a slicer, you don't use that as a filleting knife because ribs bones will destroy that thin edge. Secondly deba are fish filleting knives, this is a fact no matter what you believe they are designed for. Sorry to burst your bubble. Go to try using one as a "stubby chef knife" let us know how that worked out for you.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 24, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> First off it's yanagiba and it's a slicer, you don't use that as a filleting knife because ribs bones will destroy that thin edge. Secondly deba are fish filleting knives, this is a fact no matter what you believe they are designed for. Sorry to burst your bubble. Go to try using one as a "stubby chef knife" let us know how that worked out for you.


Sorry bro beans, Yanagiba/Yanagi. https://www.knife-depot.com/fillet-knives/ Find me a Deba in there! You cant because thats what a real filet knife is. A Deba is a Japanese fish and chicken butcher knife. Deba b&#333;ch&#333; (Japanese: &#20986;&#20995;&#21253;&#19969;, "pointed carving knife") are Japanese style kitchen carvers primarily used to cut fish, though also used when cutting meat. I dont see any word in there saying Filet. And I mean if you cant clearly see with your own two eyes that yanagIBA is more shaped like a western Filet knife and that a Deba is shaped like a Western Chef knife then maybe you should go to lens crafters, theyre having a sale Im sure.


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## StonedEdge (Apr 24, 2018)

Dude, you need to learn a couple things before you keep posting......go use a yanagiba as a fillet knife and you'll see how wonderfully wrong you are. But hey, I just actually own a deba and a yanagiba but what do I know looool carry on, greenhorn.

Also, why are you using an American source as your reference for Japanese knives? I think I know why you have so many misconceptions now.


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## panda (Apr 24, 2018)

And usuba is meant to be used as a paring knife.


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 24, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> Dude, you need to learn a couple things before you keep posting......go use a yanagiba as a fillet knife and you'll see how wonderfully wrong you are. But hey, I just actually own a deba and a yanagiba but what do I know looool carry on, greenhorn.
> 
> Also, why are you using an American source as your reference for Japanese knives? I think I know why you have so many misconceptions now.


first of all you can pretty much do Anything with Any knife. "It's the technique, Not the tool," as Murray Carter says, and as tons of other have said in various ways.
Korin website a deba is for fish butchering and filleting so you are right, but what I gave you was a wikipedia Description of a Deba and they even translated it in english Deba Bocho and it is a "pointed carving knife". No filet in there. I can and have with my yanagIba (thanks for the correction) filleted fish before. This is from **************.com "Debas are thick, stout knives traditionally used in Japan for filleting fish. Some users adapt the edge of these knives to other kitchen tasks such as parting out poultry or for use as a vegetable cleaver but the knife is designed to excel in the preparation of fish. " So we are both right! Can't we all just get along, a greenhorn young buck blood like me and stoned senior member like yourself?!



panda said:


> And usuba is meant to be used as a paring knife.


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## StonedEdge (Apr 24, 2018)

My bad if what I wrote came off crude! No harm meant! You're absolutely right that every knife can be used for multiple applications and I guess it's fair to say that everyone reaches for a knife with a particular task for it in mind at that precise moment. What I'm trying to get at is that using a single beveled deba as a tougher chef knife or using a yanagiba to remove fillets from a fish are better suited for other knives, potentially less costly ones, to boot. (although a deba excels at removing fish fillets, in my opinion). Anyway, only you can make that type of call for yourself, that's why everyone's knife assortments/kits/collections are different and interesting be it working tools or never used drawer queens (to me at least)


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 24, 2018)

StonedEdge said:


> My bad if what I wrote came off crude! No harm meant! You're absolutely right that every knife can be used for multiple applications and I guess it's fair to say that everyone reaches for a knife with a particular task for it in mind at that precise moment. What I'm trying to get at is that using a single beveled deba as a tougher chef knife or using a yanagiba to remove fillets from a fish are better suited for other knives, potentially less costly ones, to boot. (although a deba excels at removing fish fillets, in my opinion). Anyway, only you can make that type of call for yourself, that's why everyone's knife assortments/kits/collections are different and interesting be it working tools or never used drawer queens (to me at least)


no harm at all brother! all in gest for real! And now if you are talking about A For Real Single Bevel Deba yeah that's not going to happen haha non of the guys I work with would be able to cut straight at all haha! I actually just got a double bevel (fake!) kiritsuke, because when I got my yanagiba (again, fake, because No uroashi which sucks! I didn't realize it, but it was only $30) and using the single bevel to try and cut far down through like a pepper or tomato, it pulls to the left, so I decided to get a double bevel kiritsuke. So yeah, the deba i'd be getting is really just a fake, a western fat stubby chef knife haha! I love how we've come full circle


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## Jovidah (Apr 24, 2018)

Are you actually trying to learn something or just looking for confirmation? You can't have both...
Instead of argueing to people with more knowledge and experience maybe you should actually listen to them instead of trying to argue. Unless you want people to stop bothering trying to teach...

If you think a thick blade will not impair your cutting, try cutting some carrots and other harder vegetables with a meat cleaver. You keep trying to find exquisite solutions to mundane problems, but that ignores the fact that most common solutions are common because they work. 
But hey by all means, go and blow another 200 dollars on a deba...


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 24, 2018)

Jovidah said:


> Are you actually trying to learn something or just looking for confirmation? You can't have both...
> Instead of argueing to people with more knowledge and experience maybe you should actually listen to them instead of trying to argue. Unless you want people to stop bothering trying to teach...
> 
> If you think a thick blade will not impair your cutting, try cutting some carrots and other harder vegetables with a meat cleaver. You keep trying to find exquisite solutions to mundane problems, but that ignores the fact that most common solutions are common because they work.
> But hey by all means, go and blow another 200 dollars on a deba...



i'm not just trying to argue, and I said a few posts ago that I didn't realize the thicker blade would cause problems when cutting; I was agreeing with it. And I definitely would Not be spending $200 on any knife, not for a Long time. $111 was the most I spent and will be the most I will spend for a few years.


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## panda (Apr 24, 2018)

when i first started off i also said i would never get carbon. now my entire set is carbon except for one. how quickly your views can change upon trying things.


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## Jovidah (Apr 24, 2018)

It's okay if you want to stay 'low-budget', but then why keep throwing money at silly things, like buying random cheap crap (cheapo stones on ebay for example). Several small investments make a big one. Skip on silly small things and you can put more money into smart big things. I hate to say it but a 100 dollars is really... the entry level - at least for Japanese knives. Spend 50-100 dollars more and you're still noticing a significant upgrade in performance.
Also makes me question your earlier statement (can't remember where) where you said you didn't really like gyutos. Which begs the question... have you ever used a proper one? Or always played with bargain basement versions?


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## TEWNCfarms (Apr 25, 2018)

Jovidah said:


> It's okay if you want to stay 'low-budget', but then why keep throwing money at silly things, like buying random cheap crap (cheapo stones on ebay for example). Several small investments make a big one. Skip on silly small things and you can put more money into smart big things. I hate to say it but a 100 dollars is really... the entry level - at least for Japanese knives. Spend 50-100 dollars more and you're still noticing a significant upgrade in performance.
> Also makes me question your earlier statement (can't remember where) where you said you didn't really like gyutos. Which begs the question... have you ever used a proper one? Or always played with bargain basement versions?



The ebay store I bought from is legitimate, he harvests the stones himself on Wednesdays. Most of his stones are close to a $1000, One is $4000! So we will see how this turns out. http://stores.ebay.com/Japanese-tools-whetstone-for-sword/330mate-/_i.html?_fsub=1621097014

And no I havent even used a gyuto, I would like to. I just havent like many designs, but the more Ive delved the more Ive liked...


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## Keith Sinclair (Apr 26, 2018)

I fix quite a few broken tips. Most beginning students or home users who abuse their knives. I prefer not to repair from the cutting edge at all. All from the spine this is using a 140 Atoma plate just sweep the spine until it meets the cutting edge. If you want more gradual sweep to the spine you can shape that too on the Atoma. Then take it to the stones to tune up your repaired tip. If bad broken tips I take the spine to a belt sander with a pan of water the thin metal of a tip can overheat quickly most keep it cool. Your small damage easy fix on a coarse diamond plate.

In a production kitchen like a couple thin tipped blades. A thin trip rules for certain types of prep like horizontal cuts when dicing a onion. A more beefy tip for other prep. One reason to own many knives:biggrin:


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## Benuser (Apr 26, 2018)

With carbon blades which are much less abrasion resistant a sheet of P320 sandpaper will be all you need.


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