# Looking for budget nakiri recommendations



## Bobblybook (Jul 26, 2017)

LOCATION
What country are you in?
*Australia*


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
*Nakiri*

Are you right or left handed?
*Right*

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
*Japanese, am used to octagonal but happy to try D-handles etc.*

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
*165-180mm. I see a lot of recommendations to go up to 180 but I might not have a lot of choice.*

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
*No*

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
*Looking to buy something cheap-ish, probably $100-150 max. Happy to go as low as I can without running into major F&F issues.*


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
*Home*

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
*Cutting vegetables, julienne, chopping herbs, dicing onions.. anything where the flat profile of the nakiri will come in useful - I will have other knives for the rest.*

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
*Not replacing, but currently use a 240mm stainless ginga wa-gyuto, 165mm zakuri blue #1 tosagata bocho, and a 150mm stainless wa-petty.*

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
*Mostly pinch.*

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
*Probably just slicing and push cutting as it will mostly be used for vegetables.*

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
*Flat profile for chopping/dicing, hence looking at a nakiri. Beyond that I don't have many requirements, I want it to be relatively inexpensive to find out if I enjoy using a nakiri.*

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
*I am a fan of quality (don't have to be fancy) wooden handles, and dislike plastic ferrules, but am happy to settle for one if the knife itself is made well for the price. I also like kurouchi finishes.*

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
*I like lighter handles, so that the balance point is not too close to the handle, but beyond that am open to options. See above re: handle materials. I have been curious about trying out a heavier gyuto, it may be a good idea to try out a mid-weight or heavier nakiri (if such a thing exists). It seems like they are a little heavier anyway, probably due to there being more metal in the blade.*

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
*N/A for most of these. I am looking for a decently high quality of knife for as little as possible, I'm not sure how low this can go before I run into problems.*

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
*The longer the better (obviously), but no requirements. It will be for home use so I can sharpen as needed.*


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
*Yes, end grain wood. Have some plastic boards too for some tasks, but they will probably not see a lot of use with this knife.*

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
*Yes, #1200 and #6000 stones.*


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

Please note that I am in Australia, so shipping from the US/EU is prohibitively expensive for a single, budget knife purchase (will likely be more than the knife itself). I do love my Zakuri, and would be happy with a zakuri nakiri, but I'm not sure if they can be bought straight from Japan. Ideally, direct from Japan is very efficient for me as we are reasonably close here in Australia, and helps keep shipping down. I see very few nakiris from blueway on fleabay, and all are 165mm. I'm sure there are a decent amount of options out there, I am just stumped on where to look.
I see a tojiro nakiri recommended quite often at the super budget end, but an equal amount of mentions that while the blade is good, the F&F on the handle can be horrific. Ideally I'd like to avoid those sorts of frustrations as I am not experienced at all in rehandling, or regrinding a blade etc.

Thanks lots for your time and help, forumers!


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## Eloh (Jul 26, 2017)

http://www.knivesandstones.com/shinko-seilan-nakiri-180mm-ku-aogami-super-by-shiro-kamo/

have a look, also probably the best handle you can get for that cheap...


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## DanDan (Jul 26, 2017)

I'm assuming you'd prefer a 180mm here. Everything in your questionnaire is pointing to a 180mm Shinko Seilan from K&S. It's a great deal for a 180, but maybe someone who owns something from that line can comment on F&F. If you can put up with shipping from the EU and a plastic ferrule, but want to try a D-handle the Munetoshi 180mm would be a great bang for your buck option.


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## mise_en_place (Jul 26, 2017)

I suggest you post in BST for a used Zakuri Nakiri. There are both 165 and 180s and if used, would definitely be in your price range. Steel is Blue Super, so good edge retention. I used to own a 180 and liked it fine, but I'm not really into nakiri. I did like the fact that neither the core steel or cladding were very reactive.

If you want to stretch your budget slightly, Jon has new 180s for sale on his website. He is sold out of the 165s.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ducts/zakuri-180mm-blue-super-kurouchi-nakiri

Edit: Saw you're in Australia. Looks like you've got some good suggestions above.


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## Matus (Jul 26, 2017)

After some basic experience I would say go with 165, unless the 180 is no heavier than some 170 - 180g. I had the Toyama 180 and at 200g it proved to be too heavy for my taste (otherwise a fantastic knife). I got Masakage Koishi recently - one of the reasons to pick it was the larger-than-standard height. It seems to be an excellent knife, even though the bevels needed a bit work to take out the coarse finish that was causing some drag. The forging work is excellent, the bevels reasonably even.

I would also suggest to check out different Masakage models.

It is just slightly above your budget, but the JCK nakiri looks very good IMO.

If you do want to go to a larger nakiri, than the Itinomon stainless clad V2 could be a great option (the grind looks excellent).


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## JaVa (Jul 26, 2017)

Very good options all!

+1 for the Itinomonn. I have the 240 SS Kasumi gyuto. What can I say? I'm a fan. The Nakiri is well under your budget with the 15% discount and it's with free shipping. Superb F&F and It'll cut like a dream.

+1 For the Shinko Seilan. I had the 210 gyuto. Seriously unbelievable value for money, Great cutter with a nice handle. And it's in your neck of the woods. 

Cant go wrong with either.

For an ultra budget choice Metal Master has 1 Tanaka B2 nakiri in stock. You'll never guess how cheap it is from it's performance, but you will from the F&F and handle, But man does it perform. I have one and it's great. Newest batches aren't as reactive as they used to be either.


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## Marcelo Amaral (Jul 26, 2017)

I know it's a bit over your budget, but i would save a bit more and get the Watanabe pro 180mm nakiri: http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/nakkiri.htm

I have the Itinomonn stainless clad v2 and found it very light, laser territory. Not a problem, just something to keep in mind.


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## valgard (Jul 26, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I know it's a bit over your budget, but i would save a bit more and get the Watanabe pro 180mm nakiri: http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/nakkiri.htm
> 
> I have the Itinomonn stainless clad v2 and found it very light, laser territory. Not a problem, just something to keep in mind.



I can't second this enough if you want something with some heft.


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## TheCaptain (Jul 26, 2017)

+1. Especially if you only plan on getting one Nakiri. Thia is THE Nakiri to have.


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## trilby (Jul 26, 2017)

I have a custom made Nakari that i cannot find the maker of. Custom box and saya as well.


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## Choppin (Jul 26, 2017)

Munetoshi or Itinomonn from JNS. Even with shipping that should fit in your price limit.


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## txtrqdrt (Jul 27, 2017)

I think you're going to have to buy something else from JNS if you go with the Munetoshi or Itinomonn, in order to qualify for free shipping. Having said that, I really don't think you could go wrong with either. 

I have the Shinko Seilan 180mm nakiri and it's great. At 174g it feels blade-light due to the extra heft of James's lovely ebony handle - the balance point is behind the pinch grip, right on the choil. Fit and finish is good; choil is rounded off, spine isn't but really not a problem due to how thin it is. The kurouchi finish is super smooth so you will get a bit of sticking but not a big deal imo. Right now it's my go-to knife for butternut pumpkin.


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## sharptools (Jul 27, 2017)

The tadafusa nakiri is a surprisingly good nakiri for its price. Stainless clad blue 2.

https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...cts/jck-natures-blue-moon-series-nakiri-165mm

Only downside for you is the plastic ferrule.

It is quite a bit thinner than the gyuto by the same maker.


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## JaVa (Jul 27, 2017)

If the info on JNS site is correct the Watanabe and Itinomnn 180 nakiris should wheigh the same.


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## Bobblybook (Jul 27, 2017)

Thank you all for the suggestions and advice! This is exactly what I needed.

I have had a look at every reply in this thread and have a few comments.

That Shinko Seilan nakiri looks very nice. It's a little expensive, but from what I've read, it looks like it costs a lot less than it should, so it would be a good deal.



txtrqdrt said:


> I have the Shinko Seilan 180mm nakiri and it's great. At 174g it feels blade-light due to the extra heft of James's lovely ebony handle - the balance point is behind the pinch grip, right on the choil. Fit and finish is good; choil is rounded off, spine isn't but really not a problem due to how thin it is. The kurouchi finish is super smooth so you will get a bit of sticking but not a big deal imo. Right now it's my go-to knife for butternut pumpkin.



Good to hear. I despise trying to cut with a handle-heavy knife, this has me a little worried but that balance point is not too far back.



mise_en_place said:


> I suggest you post in BST for a used Zakuri Nakiri. There are both 165 and 180s and if used, would definitely be in your price range. Steel is Blue Super, so good edge retention. I used to own a 180 and liked it fine, but I'm not really into nakiri. I did like the fact that neither the core steel or cladding were very reactive.



Do you have any idea what these are cladded in? I couldn't find a clear mention of it anywhere. I am asking because one of the cheaper nakiris I was looking at is cladded in "soft iron", which I have read is quite reactive, but I'm not sure how it compares to my Zakuri. The cladding on my tosagata bocho does not seem to be too reactive at all so I am fine with that level, whatever material it is.



Matus said:


> After some basic experience I would say go with 165, unless the 180 is no heavier than some 170 - 180g. I had the Toyama 180 and at 200g it proved to be too heavy for my taste (otherwise a fantastic knife). I got Masakage Koishi recently - one of the reasons to pick it was the larger-than-standard height. It seems to be an excellent knife, even though the bevels needed a bit work to take out the coarse finish that was causing some drag. The forging work is excellent, the bevels reasonably even.
> 
> I would also suggest to check out different Masakage models.
> 
> ...



This is very helpful, thank you. I have noticed the lighter nakiris tend to weigh around 110g, while the heavier ones such as the Shinko Seilan are up around 170-180g. I guess this just depends on what I want.




Choppin said:


> Munetoshi or Itinomonn from JNS. Even with shipping that should fit in your price limit.





txtrqdrt said:


> I think you're going to have to buy something else from JNS if you go with the Munetoshi or Itinomonn, in order to qualify for free shipping. Having said that, I really don't think you could go wrong with either.





JaVa said:


> +1 for the Itinomonn. I have the 240 SS Kasumi gyuto. What can I say? I'm a fan. The Nakiri is well under your budget with the 15% discount and it's with free shipping. Superb F&F and It'll cut like a dream.



Yeah I wasn't sure if I was misreading something, but those knives come in just a little under 1000 DKK (ex-VAT which is what I believe I would pay in Aus), which would not qualify for the free shipping. They are listed in AUD, ex-VAT at $160 and $180 respectively, so may be pushing the budget a bit as shipping comes in at $38/$45. With the discount factored in, shipping added, and no VAT, the Munetoshi or Itonomonn knives come in at $170 and $205 respectively. Keep in mind that for the Itonomonn, an extra 50 DKK would qualify for free shipping, although all the super cheap items in the store that I could use as a filler are sold out.



JaVa said:


> For an ultra budget choice Metal Master has 1 Tanaka B2 nakiri in stock. You'll never guess how cheap it is from it's performance, but you will from the F&F and handle, But man does it perform. I have one and it's great. Newest batches aren't as reactive as they used to be either.



Is this the one you were referring to? http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product/29
It was available after I read your reply, but I added it to shopping cart to check postage and it then changed to sold out. Not sure if I messed with the stock levels somehow and it thought it sold it to me, or if someone else grabbed it from under my nose. Despite the cheapness of the handle, this is actually a nice looking option for me. I would be quite happy with something like this I think.



sharptools said:


> The tadafusa nakiri is a surprisingly good nakiri for its price. Stainless clad blue 2.
> 
> https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...cts/jck-natures-blue-moon-series-nakiri-165mm
> 
> Only downside for you is the plastic ferrule.



These two look like good budget options. Plastic ferrule and cheaper handle is fine at this price, as long as the handle is not wonky or something equally unusable. I am not usually a fan of cutting with damascus knives, as they usually cost more and don't add to the performance, as well as issues with scratching/damaging the finish during sharpening.
Having said that, I do like the prettiness of damascus steel, and I could look after a damascus-clad nakiri quite easily. Does anyone have any knowledge on the reactivity of the cladding on these knives? I am fine with patinas and marking, but I want to avoid having to wipe the knife constantly during use, or reacting with specific foods, leaving residues etc..
Obviously the stainless-clad tadafusa would not be an issue, but what about the Tanaka?


Thanks for the recommendations for the Watanabe. Unfortunately this comes in at over $280, and then additional shipping on top of that. In addition, I would not be happy spending this without paying for a better handle without a plastic ferrule. It's way over what I'm willing to spend for a budget nakiri - I can afford it, but I see little reason to invest so much into a knife when I am unsure of my own preferences (blade weight, size, steel, blade height) or if I will even enjoy a nakiri. If I really do like them, then I am happy to look into more expensive options down the road 

Keep in mind that the exchange rate is approx USD:AUD 1:1.25, although typically it will be slightly worse for us. So for any US price, add approx 30%, plus applicable shipping.

Also I forgot to mention that I am possibly looking for a saya. I store my good knives this way as I don't have a magnetic knife strip or such. I can probably seek out a generic nakiri saya as they are mostly the same shape and not as variable as a gyuto or santoku. Another option for me is a knife roll, but it seems a bit dangerous (both to the knife and user) storing them without any extra protection. Are they really stored exposed like that? I may just get a decent knife roll and be done with constantly looking for sayas. I don't really need to transport them around much, it's more just for safe storage at home.

Also a point I'd forgotten about is blade height. With my Zakuri, the JKI specs (which is where I bought mine) show a height of 40mm. This is fine but I would appreciate a little higher as I often feel that my fingers gripping the knife are a little too close to the blade heel. I could use a little more knuckle clearance too, though it's not a problem at 40mm.
I've noticed the taller nakiris are up around 50mm, with some reaching to 55.

My current preferences for this nakiri are:

No extremely reactive cladding that will discolour food.
Damascus (or korouchi) finish is nice. I wouldn't mind a damascus knife this time around for a nakiri. An alternative would be something that could take a nice patina for me to experiment with (would have to be non korouchi). I believe this would only work well with non-SS cladding though?
50mm or so minimum blade height, just don't want it super short and would like it to have a different feel than my 165mm zakuri (40mm height).
165 or 180mm length (unsure if it will make a huge difference and often I don't have the luxury of choice anyway within the same knife model)
Slightly heavier than 110g if possible. Almost all my other knives are almost exactly 110g, so it would be a good opportunity to try something different... not absolutely necessary.
Horn ferrule is a plus, but not top priority on the budget end.

My favourites options from those mentioned, along with final shipped prices to me, just so it gives some more realistic comparison to what my options are:

A little expensive, but still potential options:

Shinko Seilan 180mm, 174g ($170)
Munetoshi 180mm, ??g ($170)
Itonomonn 180mm, 183g ($205)
JCK Kagayaki KAS-4 165mm, 148g (~$220)

"Budget" knives:

Tanaka damascus 165mm, 110g (~$100) - Probably sold out now, but listing anyway because it may be available somewhere.
JCK Blue Moon (tadafusa?) 165mm, 160g (~$120)
Fujiwara Kanefusa damascus 165mm, 132g (~$155) - Not sure about this one, just saw it on the JCK site also.
Any other cheap but decent knife that punches above it's weight in terms of performance and value. I have been trying to collect a list from any that are mentioned so far that are feasible options for me 


Also are these Sakai Ichimonji Kichikuni from blueway any good? They are around $120 delivered to me as well but I can't find many mentions of the knives on google, only a few discussions of the gyutos.


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## Matus (Jul 27, 2017)

I had one "standard sized" nakiri in hand, 165 mm, 51 mm height and 150g weight. I think that would be a good starting point. Get one like that and then you will see whether it works for you or not. That really is the only way to figure uo what you like.


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## chinacats (Jul 27, 2017)

If 165 I'd buy the used Tanaka on b/s/t...for 180, buy the Watanabe. Both great cutters but different knives overall,


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## Bobblybook (Jul 27, 2017)

Matus said:


> I had one "standard sized" nakiri in hand, 165 mm, 51 mm height and 150g weight. I think that would be a good starting point. Get one like that and then you will see whether it works for you or not. That really is the only way to figure uo what you like.



This is what I am tending towards I think. I can get a feel for the weight by holding my current knives with/without sayas to get a range of around 80g-150g (ignoring balance point). I do feel that anything closer towards 200g may be slightly heavy for me, so what you have listed is exactly where I seem to be headed.


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## Bobblybook (Jul 27, 2017)

chinacats said:


> If 165 I'd buy the used Tanaka on b/s/t...for 180, buy the Watanabe. Both great cutters but different knives overall,



May I ask which you're referring to? I'm not sure if it's policy to not link to b/s/t threads directly here. I have had a look through that section, both yesterday and today, and the only relevant nakiri I can find is the damascus rehandled one, but it was sold. Is that it, or is there another one hiding away somewhere?


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## chinacats (Jul 27, 2017)

Bobblybook said:


> May I ask which you're referring to? I'm not sure if it's policy to not link to b/s/t threads directly here. I have had a look through that section, both yesterday and today, and the only relevant nakiri I can find is the damascus rehandled one, but it was sold. Is that it, or is there another one hiding away somewhere?



That was likely it, sorry I didn't notice it had sold. When in stock they run 70 usd on Metalmaster. By far the best deal on this size nakiri imo.


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## DanDan (Jul 27, 2017)

Bobblybook said:


> Also are these Sakai Ichimonji Kichikuni from blueway any good? They are around $120 delivered to me as well but I can't find many mentions of the knives on google, only a few discussions of the gyutos.



I messaged blueway ages ago about Tadafusa was recommended those. They said that the blades are from Tadafusa in the same line. It'd be a great option if you don't want reactive, plus the F&F on the handle looks much better than the JCK Blue Moon (also Tadafusa I believe). Just note it comes in at 160g. Aframes did have a cheap Tadafusa, bummer it sold out. 

There are still 3 kurouchi Tanakas on the MM Ebay. It'd be a great little project knife and you could rehandle it with whatever you want if you decide to hang on to it. I'd look in the B/S/T first unless you have time to wait though.


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## foody518 (Jul 27, 2017)

Yamawaku?


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## Bobblybook (Jul 29, 2017)

foody518 said:


> Yamawaku?



This looks like a decent option too, thank you.



DanDan said:


> I messaged blueway ages ago about Tadafusa was recommended those. They said that the blades are from Tadafusa in the same line. It'd be a great option if you don't want reactive, plus the F&F on the handle looks much better than the JCK Blue Moon (also Tadafusa I believe). Just note it comes in at 160g. Aframes did have a cheap Tadafusa, bummer it sold out.



Ahh thanks for the info. I think this will be my best bet to go for a cheap Tanaka, Tadafusa or Yamawaku and see how it goes. Can get it rehandled later if I really like the blade 

Do you have any idea if MM sells 180mm Tanaka nakiris? I don't see any listed, but I'm not sure if he has the ability to order them or it's just "take what you can get" from what comes into stock. I did send him an email but I have read that it can be very flaky to get an email response.


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## JaVa (Jul 29, 2017)

Bobblybook said:


> This looks like a decent option too, thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In about 3 years I have not seen a Tanaka 180 nakiri in MM:s inventory. He gets new stuff from Tanaka fairly rarely. Something like once a year so when you see something you like, better get it. 

And yeah it's a rare occasion that you get any answers from MM and when I've ordered knives from him they've arrived in 3-7 weeks. So it really takes a while.

You could ask James @ K&S if he can get one for you and how much it would cost. He gets shipments from Tanaka quite often.


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## Bobblybook (Jul 29, 2017)

JaVa said:


> In about 3 years I have not seen a Tanaka 180 nakiri in MM:s inventory. He gets new stuff from Tanaka fairly rarely. Something like once a year so when you see something you like, better get it.
> 
> And yeah it's a rare occasion that you get any answers from MM and when I've ordered knives from him they've arrived in 3-7 weeks. So it really takes a while.
> 
> You could ask James @ K&S if he can get one for you and how much it would cost. He gets shipments from Tanaka quite often.



Will do, thanks.


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## Taramonia (Jul 29, 2017)

Just throwing one more idea in there. I know it's not carbon (VG-10) but this little Yoshihiro has served me really well. I don't see the detailed measurements there but it's ~51-52mm tall at the heel and around 1.7mm thick at the spine (estimated; using an old inches tape measure and hoping I'm converting right). Magnolia handle, well finished, and includes saya.

EDIT: Sorry just realized I converted currency incorrectly and this comes in slightly over budget for you


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## Taramonia (Jul 29, 2017)

sharptools said:


> The tadafusa nakiri is a surprisingly good nakiri for its price. Stainless clad blue 2.
> 
> https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...cts/jck-natures-blue-moon-series-nakiri-165mm
> 
> ...



Sorry to highjack but on JCK they're both listed as 5mm thick which seems really fat; I was considering trying out the gyuto until I noticed that. Does this sound accurate to you or is this probably a website error?


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## sharptools (Jul 29, 2017)

The Nakiri is thinner than the gyuto for sure. Maybe mistake on the site. You may want to email them to ask.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 29, 2017)

I would recommend chinese-style Cleaver. (CAI DAO or CHUCKABOCHO )

unless you already have one or more vegetable cleavers, and you're just trying to compliment your knife Arsenal with a NAKIRI.

If you absolutely want / need a NAKIRI ,
there are two factors that I consider mandatory and non-negotiable.

CARBON STEEL 
made in JAPAN !!!

Then the only limitations are budget, personal preference , size ,weight ,edge profile, Etc
sorry I don't have a specific recommendation.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 29, 2017)

TARAMONIA,
.....5MM is extremely thick ! :jawdrop:


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## Taramonia (Jul 29, 2017)

WOK-a-holic said:


> TARAMONIA,
> .....5MM is extremely thick ! :jawdrop:



I know! I'm gonna email them and ask...tbh that can't be right...


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## Triggaaar (Jul 30, 2017)

Bobblybook said:


> Cutting vegetables, julienne, chopping herbs, dicing onions..
> Mostly pinch.
> Probably just slicing and push cutting as it will mostly be used for vegetables.





WOK-a-holic said:


> I would recommend chinese-style Cleaver.


Why are you recommending a cleaver instead of a nakiri?


(I ask as I'm also in the market for one or the other)


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## labor of love (Jul 30, 2017)

If no one has already answered the question, indeed zakuri knives are reactive like normal iron cladding. My recommendation is this wakui
http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=95731
you can knock 10% off with forum discount so the total comes to $158 + shipping for a great thin cutter from a maker with a great track record.
Or spend a little more and get a kochi. Both knives are easy to sharpen and stainless clad(atleast the particular kochi I have in mind).


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## Bobblybook (Jul 31, 2017)

Taramonia said:


> Just throwing one more idea in there. I know it's not carbon (VG-10) but this little Yoshihiro has served me really well. I don't see the detailed measurements there but it's ~51-52mm tall at the heel and around 1.7mm thick at the spine (estimated; using an old inches tape measure and hoping I'm converting right). Magnolia handle, well finished, and includes saya.
> 
> EDIT: Sorry just realized I converted currency incorrectly and this comes in slightly over budget for you



Looks good also. A little over budget is not too bad if it comes with a saya. I will write this down too 



WOK-a-holic said:


> I would recommend chinese-style Cleaver. (CAI DAO or CHUCKABOCHO )
> 
> unless you already have one or more vegetable cleavers, and you're just trying to compliment your knife Arsenal with a NAKIRI.



I have been looking into these too. They seem like a good option, and a lot of people swear by them. I am unsure if I would like the increased weight as even 150-180g starts to feel a little weighty to me. I realise too that the skills for using a chinese cleaver are quite different. I wouldn't mind trying one out, I may search around here and see if I can find any local stores that stock CCK's for me to try out. They are inexpensive anyway, so I may end up buying one of these as well if I like them.



labor of love said:


> If no one has already answered the question, indeed zakuri knives are reactive like normal iron cladding. My recommendation is this wakui
> http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=95731
> you can knock 10% off with forum discount so the total comes to $158 + shipping for a great thin cutter from a maker with a great track record.
> Or spend a little more and get a kochi. Both knives are easy to sharpen and stainless clad(atleast the particular kochi I have in mind).



Thank you, nope nobody has replied with that yet. I realised that obviously my zakuri is not going to be reactive with the kurouchi finish still on.. :rofl2: But I am familiar with how reactive the exposed faces are.

I really love the kochi knives.. I wanted to get a kochi gyuto when I ordered from Jon last - that burnt chestnut handle and kurouchi finish have a certain charm that I can't get past.. not that I'm trying very hard!
I still feel that I will end up with a kochi gyuto in the future. :knife:


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## Noodle Soup (Jul 31, 2017)

Have you looked at the Tosagata models on Japan Woodworker? That was where I started with nakiri. Very economical and a good working tool.


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## WOK-a-holic (Aug 1, 2017)

Triggaaar said:


> Why are you recommending a cleaver instead of a nakiri?
> 
> 
> (I ask as I'm also in the market for one or the other)



I absolutely love Chinese cleavers. They are the best for vegetables and aromatics /herbs .
They can do everything a NAKIRI can and then some. But take it slow at first, have a paring knife handy for smaller more intricate work .Then when you get used to cleaver, the paring knife won't get much use
(my paring knives collect dust !). Never cut bones, crab or lobster shells, use a butcher's heavy cleaver 
for that. Also I never use to cut cheese ,the large surface area causes the blade to stick, creating a dangerous situation. 

get a CARBON STEEL cleaver, large and thin 210mm-230mm ×100mm-120mm ×400gr-475gr 
you will need the extra weight, because the way the knife is used ,mainly chopping.


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## WOK-a-holic (Aug 1, 2017)

bobblybook, 
you will need extra weight, and you will get used to it quickly. chef's mall has CCK 
would recommend CCK 1102 or 1103. If weight is a problem you could try CCK 1301,1302,1303
1303 is the lightest and smallest. To light and small IMO. make sure your getting CARBON STEEL and not stainless version


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## Triggaaar (Aug 1, 2017)

WOK-a-holic said:


> I absolutely love Chinese cleavers. They are the best for vegetables and aromatics /herbs .
> They can do everything a NAKIRI can and then some.


I imagine being the best is somewhat debatable  In terms of doing more than a nakiri, what sort of thing are you thinking of (ie, regular tasks)?



> But take it slow at first, have a paring knife handy for smaller more intricate work .Then when you get used to cleaver, the paring knife won't get much use
> (my paring knives collect dust !).


You use yours to peel fruit?



> get a CARBON STEEL cleaver


I see the carbon version recommended over the stainless version a lot, but I note that the younger generation are going stainless. What do you think it wrong with stainless? It sure helps to be able to cut some veg and get on with cooking, without worrying about rust.

Thanks


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## WOK-a-holic (Aug 2, 2017)

TRIGGAAR,
okay when I say Chinese Cleaver is the best, that's just my opinion.

I like the 90 degree sharp tip of Chinese Cleaver and dislike rounded edge of NAKIRI. 
The unsharpened edge at front of Chinese Cleaver is excellent for scraping and mashing things like ginger or garlic.
also I use to mash avocado against cutting board to make a "micro batch" of guacamole.

when I said take it slow and have a paring knife handy. I meant if you are new to Chinese cleavers ,they are large and heavy and behave quite differently than a GYUTO. I used to use a paring knife for small tasks ,but once I got used to cleaver I prefer using it for most everything. 

I don't peel much fruit, or ever hold anything in my hand while cutting with any type of knife. I always have ingredients in contact with cutting board at all times using claw grip with left hand. For carrots and potatoes I use vegetable peeler, but often leave the skin on.

As far as carbon steel goes I find it Superior for Edge retention and ability to take on a keen Edge. 
once carbon steel develops a good patina ,it doesn't rust as easily . you just have to wash and dry once you're completely done cooking ( some people are too LAZY for that) .

most people don't realize how poorly stainless steel holds an edge ,because they have deprived themselves of carbon steel because they don't want a little bit of extra maintenance.(again lazyness)


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## Triggaaar (Aug 2, 2017)

WOK-a-holic said:


> I like the 90 degree sharp tip of Chinese Cleaver and dislike rounded edge of NAKIRI.


Yeah I can imagine not liking the rounded edge, it just seems unnecessary.

Thanks for the comments.


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## WOK-a-holic (Aug 3, 2017)

Triggaaar said:


> Yeah I can imagine not liking the rounded edge, it just seems unnecessary.
> 
> Thanks for the comments.



you're welcome,
I don't claim to be an expert ,I just voice my opinion ,in the hopes that it can help others.

NAKIRI and CHUKABOCHO is Japan's variation of
of China's original CAI DAO . As they are all vegetable knives.
call me old-fashioned but I like the original .
Although, the steel from Japan is better than china. I don't like the belly on most CHUKABOCHO's (or the price ) , but after a lot of work reprofiling the edge on my Japanese made SUIEN vc cleaver , I love it. My CCK 1103 has the flatter edge profile that I like, and is super thin.


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