# Massmoto KS 270 Gyuto



## Ucmd (Nov 27, 2014)

Would love to buy one of these. Can someone direct me to site that is selling. Would entertain used 270 as well. Thanks


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## CoqaVin (Nov 27, 2014)

cant seem to find any that are not sold out anywhere


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## MikeHL (Nov 27, 2014)

Maybe rakuten ? I saw that they have the 240 in stock now, and even a 330 lol 


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## CoqaVin (Nov 27, 2014)

I looked on Rakuten as well to try and help the OP out, I wasn't able to find any, whose the seller?


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## stereo.pete (Nov 27, 2014)

Why don't you post a WTB ad in the B/S/T forum?


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## James (Nov 27, 2014)

Yamakawa on rakuten doesn't have any in stock, but they do have 240s in both white and stainless (aeb-l i think?). They've also got a 300 in white.

If it helps, they do run long so I think a 240 is really ~ 250 something.


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## Ucmd (Nov 27, 2014)

I kinda just want to buy new. If no leads I'll post in bst


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## CoqaVin (Nov 27, 2014)

the best bet right now would be to get a 240 if you want a new one, who knows when a new stock of them will come around


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## MikeHL (Nov 27, 2014)

CoqaVin said:


> I looked on Rakuten as well to try and help the OP out, I wasn't able to find any, whose the seller?



Subaru 

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/subaru/item/ks3133/?s-id=borderless_browsehist_en

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/subaru/item/ks3124/?s-id=borderless_browsehist_en



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## CoqaVin (Nov 27, 2014)

thanks Mike!

If I had a little bit more cash I would get the 240


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## Ucmd (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks for the links. I love the 270 size. I think like james said they run big. So like a 24o is actually longer. Can anyone who owns one chime in. Also, how is rakuten to order from.


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## cclin (Nov 27, 2014)

My 240mm KS is actually 251mm. You may also try contacting Korin see if they can order one for you.


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## MikeHL (Nov 27, 2014)

My 240KS is 252mm long. I got mine from rakuten, found the process pretty straight forward just like ordering from amazon or any other webstore. What you might have problems is asking the seller questions. 

here is another KS240 I found 

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/yamakawa/item/masamoto-ks3124/
4 in stock right now

stainless version
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/yamakawa/item/masamoto-sw3124/
1 left


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## Jgillis86 (Nov 28, 2014)

My 240 ks is 255 mm. I was actually in the market for a 270 when I pulled the trigger on her, and I've yet to hear of one that isn't oversized. You won't miss that half inch or so, at least I never have. The profile is amazing, easily makes up for the minimal loss in length.


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## labor of love (Nov 28, 2014)

Any of you guys remember how tall the Masamoto KS is OOTB?


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## Jgillis86 (Nov 28, 2014)

48.6 mm. I know this for a fact because (and I'll probably catch hell for it on this forum...) I bought the video knife ks from "the site that shall not be named". It was too good of a deal to pass up. The specs are on the quick look YouTube video.


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## chinacats (Nov 28, 2014)

I did a basic "review" of one here some time ago...to be clear, this was a Rakuten knife. The purchase was pleasant, not so much the knife.

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/13891-masamoto-ks-just-a-project-knife-nowadays


Edit to add that the Rakuten stock will come and go for a few weeks at a time...in other words, they'll have 240's for a while, then sell out, then restock, etc for a while before they actually run out. Just make sure to use the model number in your search (ks3124 etc).

Currently less than 200 bucks for a ks? Wow!


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## EdipisReks (Nov 28, 2014)

Ucmd said:


> Would love to buy one of these. Can someone direct me to site that is selling. Would entertain used 270 as well. Thanks



Ain't worth the effort. Buy a Tesshu from Aframes, instead.


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## slowtyper (Nov 28, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> Ain't worth the effort. Buy a Tesshu from Aframes, instead.



Can you elaborate on why the Tesshu? Never heard of it (there is a lot I haven't heard about), but would like to know. Interested in buying a new knife soon.


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## EdipisReks (Nov 28, 2014)

Tesshu kicks ass, and Masamoto ain't great shakes anymore. Not much more to be said.


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## MikeHL (Nov 28, 2014)

slowtyper said:


> Can you elaborate on why the Tesshu? Never heard of it (there is a lot I haven't heard about), but would like to know. Interested in buying a new knife soon.



The KS started it all, and a couple years ago the KS was a very hot item on the forums. Then other makers caught on and made their own version the the KS.

Here are just some:Sakai Yusuke, Ashi GINGA, Moritaka, konosuke fuji (to some extent), the-site-that-can't-be-named Ultimatum. Not sure where the Tesshu stands.

They all have there very own take on the KS, so they might be worth a look. But I will leave that to the others with experience with the said knives. 

There is no secret to the KS, its good steel with good heat treat with a chef/slicer profile making it very usable and nimble knife. Its not thick nor thin, the edge retention isn't all that great but it takes a scary sharp edge. I love mine, but I'm just one opinion.


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## James (Nov 28, 2014)

slowtyper said:


> Can you elaborate on why the Tesshu? Never heard of it (there is a lot I haven't heard about), but would like to know. Interested in buying a new knife soon.



grind looks (and probably is) amazing. http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/20149-Tesshu-from-aframes/page3?highlight=tesshu

I'm waiting for the blue #2 or damascus blue #1 to come out myself


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## daveb (Nov 28, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> Ain't worth the effort. Buy a Tesshu from Aframes, instead.



I guess that's an answer. Completely unresponsive to the question but an answer nevertheless.


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## Dardeau (Nov 28, 2014)

I'm a big fan of my older KS, and I just pulled the trigger on a Tesshu. I'll let you know how this pans out.


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## Jgillis86 (Nov 29, 2014)

What makes a great knife is very subjective. I'm no master bladesmith nor do I have the experience some of these guys have, but for me at least, my newer model KS just works for me. Comfy, ideal length for prep, kick ass profile, sexy distal taper, not wedge monster thick but not fragile laser thin. I admit, after months of using a ginga 240 it look some adjustment, but I've really grown to love it. If you want a KS, get a KS. They're pretty classic man.


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## chinacats (Nov 29, 2014)

Jgillis86 said:


> If you want a KS, get a KS. They're pretty classic man.



This really sums it all up, if you are curious and haven't tried a KS, buy one and give it a shot. You certainly won't have a problem selling it when you're done if you don't like it.


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## EdipisReks (Nov 29, 2014)

MikeHL said:


> Not sure where the Tesshu stands.



I've owned a lot of knives, like many here. The Tesshu has a very similar grind to the wide beveled Konosuke Fujiyama knives (which are nothing like a Masamoto KS), with a similar level of fit and finish. I wouldn't be surprised if the Fujiyamas were made by the same artisans as Tesshu, they are so similar. This means that they cut much better than a Masamoto KS, for less money. The Masamoto KS knives have been well surpassed. Even if they were still cheap-isn and uniform in grind, I wouldn't suggest getting one now.


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## JBroida (Nov 29, 2014)

MikeHL said:


> The KS started it all, and a couple years ago the KS was a very hot item on the forums. Then other makers caught on and made their own version the the KS.
> 
> Here are just some:Sakai Yusuke, Ashi GINGA, Moritaka, konosuke fuji (to some extent), the-site-that-can't-be-named Ultimatum. Not sure where the Tesshu stands.
> 
> ...



The above statement on copying the masamoto is not accurate... At least ashi hamono has been producing blades in the shapes and styles they do for as long, if not longer.


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## MikeHL (Nov 29, 2014)

Alright, then I stand corrected. 


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## slowtyper (Dec 5, 2014)

EdipisReks said:


> Ain't worth the effort. Buy a Tesshu from Aframes, instead.



You sold me, but they were sold out of the 210mm. Emailed them and they said they will probably have stock in a couple months!


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## mark76 (Dec 5, 2014)

MikeHL said:


> The KS started it all, and a couple years ago the KS was a very hot item on the forums. Then other makers caught on and made their own version the the KS.
> 
> Here are just some:Sakai Yusuke, Ashi GINGA, Moritaka, konosuke fuji (to some extent), the-site-that-can't-be-named Ultimatum. Not sure where the Tesshu stands.
> 
> They all have there very own take on the KS, so they might be worth a look. But I will leave that to the others with experience with the said knives.



Can you elaborate a bit on _what_ it is the KS started and the other makers copies? The profile, the cross-sectional geometry, the grind, something else?


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## labor of love (Dec 5, 2014)

mark76 said:


> Can you elaborate a bit on _what_ it is the KS started and the other makers copies? The profile, the cross-sectional geometry, the grind, something else?



The profile on the KS is by far the best attribute. Grind/edge retention/F&F/handle....not so great.


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## mark76 (Dec 5, 2014)

Thanks. I found a nice picture of a Masamoto KS on this forum:





What I see, regarding the profile, is a very long flat "spot" (it's a stretch - from the heel to about 2/3 of the blade) and then a curve upward. Is this what many people like so much?


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## Benuser (Dec 5, 2014)

It's the traditional French profile as preferred by non-rockchoppers.

http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=405


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## mark76 (Dec 5, 2014)

Thanks Ben. I thought rock-chopping was something typically European and push-cutting something Japanese. But apparently I was completely wrong?


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## Benuser (Dec 5, 2014)

Not completely... Rock-chopping is a typical German habit but alien to French traditional technique.


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## mark76 (Dec 5, 2014)

Ah... now I understand it (the technique and the knife profile. Have you got any references to the traditional French technique or knife profile, apart from the one above?

And now I look at my kitchen knives, my Richmond Artifex gyuto also has a very long flat part at the edge. Is this also a copy of the Masomoto KS profile?


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## chinacats (Dec 5, 2014)

mark76 said:


> And now I look at my kitchen knives, my Richmond Artifex gyuto also has a very long flat part at the edge. Is this also a copy of the Masomoto KS profile?



You can bet your last dollar that he copied something from someone...don't believe he's ever had an idea of his own...


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## mark76 (Dec 5, 2014)

Chinacats, it's completely clear you don't like Mark Richmond. But it was not my intention to start this discussion here again.


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## CoqaVin (Dec 5, 2014)

the profile looks very much like my Konosuke White #2


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## mark76 (Dec 5, 2014)

And now we're on the subject, is this what is called the traditional Sabatier profile?


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## Benuser (Dec 5, 2014)

The 10 and 12" chef's knives give you an idea. 
http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/sabatier_nogent.htm

It's the type of chef's knife that made Jean Auguste Sabatier famous. His model was adopted by makers world wide. German blades of the 1890's or even the 20's have more in common with that profile than with today's German knives.
When the Japanese started to produce Western knives they took the Sabatier as an example.


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## Benuser (Dec 5, 2014)

Here modern French blades with a large deadly flat section (picture by Rick's courtesy). The flat part is used for chopping herbs holding the knife horizontally by both hands. No walking nor Wiegeschnitt please. Push-cutting à la Française.


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## Benuser (Dec 5, 2014)

Slightly less pronounced, modern Thiers-Issard


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## designdog (Dec 5, 2014)

The KS has an even more pronounced gentle curve up to the point. It is like a typical gyutos in the back &#8532;, and a Suji in the front. Very handy.

What would be even handier is a 210 version...


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## Benuser (Dec 5, 2014)

The Japanese tip tends to be a bit lower, indeed.


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## Benuser (Dec 5, 2014)

Here a miniature knife by Jean Auguste Sabatier. Probably never sharpened, so we may get an idea of what was pursued.


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## mark76 (Dec 5, 2014)

Benuser said:


> Here modern French blades with a large deadly flat section (picture by Rick's courtesy). The flat part is used for chopping herbs holding the knife horizontally by both hands. No walking nor Wiegeschnitt please. Push-cutting à la Française.



Thanks Ben. But when I look at this picture, the flat section of the gyuto seems to run to about half of the blade or even less, not to about 2/3 of the blade, as with the Masamoto. Do I intererpret this correctly? (I'm not trying to make any value judgements, just trying to understand the different profiles.)

A flat section until about half of the blade is present on most of my J-knives. It seems sort of the standard profile on most of these knives.



Benuser said:


> Here a miniature knife by Jean Auguste Sabatier. Probably never sharpened, so we may get an idea of what was pursued.



And on this picture the flat section seems to be very long: maybe running until 3/4 of the blade.

If I have to interpret these pictures, I'd say that Sabatiers have a long flat spot, but it seems to run from about 1/2 of the blade (which is fairly common on J-knives) to 3/4 of the blade (which is sort-of present on the Masamoto KS). Is this interpretation correct?


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## chinacats (Dec 5, 2014)

If I can make this link work, ks on top and Sab below it for a comparison. They're not that close in reality.



OK, that didn't work, hate using a cell phone for a computer. Hope the link is at least the right one.:laugh:


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## mark76 (Dec 6, 2014)

chinacats said:


> If I can make this link work, ks on top and Sab below it for a comparison. They're not that close in reality.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, that didn't work, hate using a cell phone for a computer. Hope the link is at least the right one.:laugh:




The link works. Thanks! What I see in these picture is that the KS (top one) indeed has a very long flat stretch.

The other knives (Sabatiers?) have much shorter flat stretches. Particularly the one at the bottom has a flat stretch that ranges to less than half of the blade.

I'm having a little difficulty in understanding that the KS profile is based on the Sabatier profile, given these differences.


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## chinacats (Dec 6, 2014)

Top knife is KS, 4 star elephant Nogent Sabatier, high end German knife (Leder w/ custom profile) , Shigefusa...

Shouldn't really try to compare the Shig profile because it's a different length

...yeah KS not exactly like any of the Sabs, but all the Sabs are slightly different too.

FWIW, I still have the Sab, but sold the KS


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