# bacon vs belly



## chinacats (Jun 25, 2016)

What's the scoop? Summer has me craving a blt (well actually another couple of blt's) and curious about making my own. Do they both get cured? Total ignorance here, but first wanted to get at the actual difference in how they are prepared and secondly is bacon still the best way to go with a blt?


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## JohnnyChance (Jun 25, 2016)

Bacon is heavily cured and smoked belly. Belly can be lightly cured, brined, marinated, smoked, braised, circulated, roasted, confit, whatever your desired outcome is.

For a meatier BLT I like a brined belly, cold smoked, circulated, sliced thick then roasted or grilled. Has some qualities of both bacon and more traditional belly.


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## TheDispossessed (Jun 25, 2016)

For a BLT, you need real country bacon, salty as [email protected] and cooked to crispy. It's best to get something from a real smokehouse like bentons for example or some Amish stuff from central PA.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jun 25, 2016)

TheDispossessed said:


> For a BLT, you need real country bacon, salty as [email protected] and cooked to crispy. It's best to get something from a real smokehouse like bentons for example or some Amish stuff from central PA.



Try a BLT with smoked pork jowl. Tasty!


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## malexthekid (Jun 26, 2016)

Can i just ask maybe a stupid question....

But isn't bacon just essentially cured pork belly? whether smoked or not is just a further step in the process?


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## panda (Jun 26, 2016)

gotta be BACON, thick sliced slowly fried til extra crispy in its own rendered fat sprinkled with coarse cracked pepper. on soft untoasted chewy bread, whole grain dijonnaise, pickled red onion, thinly sliced tomato, green leaf or iceberg lettuce


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## strumke (Jun 26, 2016)




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## brainsausage (Jun 26, 2016)

malexthekid said:


> Can i just ask maybe a stupid question....
> 
> But isn't bacon just essentially cured pork belly? whether smoked or not is just a further step in the process?



Bacon is cured and smoked belly. Dry cured belly is a whole other beast. And straight smoked belly is also a whole other beast. But only a quick cure(5-6 days) and some amount of low and slow smoke makes bacon. There's many variations past that. But what we know to be bacon on the whole, is as I described above.


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## malexthekid (Jun 26, 2016)

brainsausage said:


> Bacon is cured and smoked belly. Dry cured belly is a whole other beast. And straight smoked belly is also a whole other beast. But only a quick cure(5-6 days) and some amount of low and slow smoke makes bacon. There's many variations past that. But what we know to be bacon on the whole, is as I described above.



Interesting, thanks for the info.

I wonder if there are differences here due to continents etc. Cause we can buy smoked bacon, etc as opposed to normal bacon. I just wonder if this means it is infact double smoked I guess. Will have to do a little research.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jun 26, 2016)

Alex, the bacon most of us grew up on is seasoned with flavored smoke. Only the real stuff is made as josh indicated.


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## chefcomesback (Jun 26, 2016)

malexthekid said:


> Interesting, thanks for the info.
> 
> I wonder if there are differences here due to continents etc. Cause we can buy smoked bacon, etc as opposed to normal bacon. I just wonder if this means it is infact double smoked I guess. Will have to do a little research.



Alex , 
The bacon you get in USA is heavily salted and smoked , cooked to crispy .
The bacon you get in Australia is barely smoked and heavily brlned , has the the taste and the texture of Canadian bacon , doesn't get crisp as nice due to the benne content , it gets from soft to just too dry


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## malexthekid (Jun 26, 2016)

chefcomesback said:


> Alex ,
> The bacon you get in USA is heavily salted and smoked , cooked to crispy .
> The bacon you get in Australia is barely smoked and heavily brlned , has the the taste and the texture of Canadian bacon , doesn't get crisp as nice due to the benne content , it gets from soft to just too dry



Thanks Mert. That is making more sense to me now.


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## schanop (Jun 26, 2016)

malexthekid said:


> Interesting, thanks for the info.
> 
> I wonder if there are differences here due to continents etc. Cause we can buy smoked bacon, etc as opposed to normal bacon. I just wonder if this means it is infact double smoked I guess. Will have to do a little research.





chefcomesback said:


> Alex ,
> The bacon you get in USA is heavily salted and smoked , cooked to crispy .
> The bacon you get in Australia is barely smoked and heavily brlned , has the the taste and the texture of Canadian bacon , doesn't get crisp as nice due to the benne content , it gets from soft to just too dry





malexthekid said:


> Thanks Mert. That is making more sense to me now.



Have you guys tried Bacon from Pialligo estate, Canberra? Their bacon is quite smokey compared to most bacon I have tried from butchers around town, quite yummy too.


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## brainsausage (Jun 26, 2016)

I've made thousands of pounds both brined and cured. Definitely prefer cured. Has a firmer texture, with nice tooth when it's thick cut, which is the only way to go with proper bacon IMO.


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## boomchakabowwow (Jun 26, 2016)

mmm.. belly.

slow cooked and served on steamed buns with pickle veggies and ground peanuts..and a small smear of hoisin sauce.


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## ecchef (Jun 27, 2016)

I've gotten used to Japanese bacon. Definitely closer to the Canadian bacon texture and flavor, but still plenty streaky. 
Wish I could get some good pancetta.


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## labor of love (Jun 27, 2016)

panda said:


> gotta be BACON, thick sliced slowly fried til extra crispy in its own rendered fat sprinkled with coarse cracked pepper. on soft untoasted chewy bread, whole grain dijonnaise, pickled red onion, thinly sliced tomato, green leaf or iceberg lettuce



I love letting bacon cool down in its own fat after cooking so the crispy
strips can absorb the bacon grease that it just rendered.


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## malexthekid (Jun 27, 2016)

schanop said:


> Have you guys tried Bacon from Pialligo estate, Canberra? Their bacon is quite smokey compared to most bacon I have tried from butchers around town, quite yummy too.



I haven't Chanop but thanks for the recommendation. I have had some nice double smoked bacon from the butcher at Griffith Shops.


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## schanop (Jun 27, 2016)

malexthekid said:


> I haven't Chanop but thanks for the recommendation. I have had some nice double smoked bacon from the butcher at Griffith Shops.



LOL, Griffith butcher. That is the good old butcher there ;-) Loves Aubergine next door as well. It was a long long time ago when I visited Aubergine.

On the forums, in the past, I have always praised Pino's dolce vita for Italian goods locally made. But for Bacon, Pialligo is quite a bit more tasty, me think. I usually buy it whole, in large chunk, from Hudson meat (for Sydney folks if you are keen), a kg plus block at a time. It keeps better that way in a fridge.


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## Dan P. (Jun 27, 2016)

Bacon can be smoked or unsmoked, brine or dry, back or belly, and I'm sure many other varieties besides.
Mostly bacon would be an uncooked and cured or part cured product, but I believe that's also negotiable in some places (e.g. hot smoked bacon that you can find in the US, or boczek)


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## Cashn (Jun 27, 2016)

Get enough to play around with both hehe. If you don't get some pre specified heritage pork breed that's already perfectly cut to make bacon it's pretty cheap. I follow Dardeau's recipe for bacon from a thread that was posted on here about bacon and usually save some for Asian variations or porchetta. Fish sauce based marinade/glaze and pork belly go very well together in the oven if you like that kind of thing. Smell may be off putting to others but it tastes awesome. I usually cut my bacon extra thick, if it's crispy crunchy like from Waffle House it's over cooked by a mile. Just my opinion though, I prefer bacon with a good bit of chew and slight crunch on the outside that lets you know it was fried in its own fat.


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## chinacats (Jun 28, 2016)

Thanks for all the feedback. Sounds like I need to invest in a smoker before trying to make this happen. 

Strumke, that shot looks beautiful.

LOL, love the idea about letting the fresh cooked bacon sit in the fresh fat for a bit...sounds like a proper finishing touch.


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## strumke (Jun 28, 2016)

Thx! I use Ruhlman's recipe, tweaked a bit. Just keep a record of what i cure it in each time and adjust here and there.

Would be interested to know if it's worth spending the $$ on specific breeds of pork vs the standard belly from the Asian grocery.


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## brainsausage (Jun 28, 2016)

strumke said:


> Thx! I use Ruhlman's recipe, tweaked a bit. Just keep a record of what i cure it in each time and adjust here and there.
> 
> Would be interested to know if it's worth spending the $$ on specific breeds of pork vs the standard belly from the Asian grocery.



The higher the quality the better.


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## strumke (Jun 28, 2016)

Is it a difference in taste? texture? composition? Thinking about a week long cure, smoking, and then frying, how much of that premium vs standard comes through in the final product and what is it that makes a better final product?

Thanks!


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## Mucho Bocho (Jun 28, 2016)

Strumke, no question that using a heritage breed will yeild a noticeable better product. Could cost twice per pound that of commercial pork. Your call is its worth it.


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## daveb (Jun 28, 2016)

Duroc is a readily available breed here from specialty meat purveyors. Markedly better than what the industry calls "white pork" and only a 50% premium. I'll get it when I'm doing a belly or Q for myself and friends. I've bought some of the other, pricier, breeds and like most things there comes a point of diminishing returns. 

When I'm cooking for a bunch of kids, catering or food trucking I'll go with the cheap stuff and lots of sauce.


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## brainsausage (Jun 28, 2016)

strumke said:


> Is it a difference in taste? texture? composition? Thinking about a week long cure, smoking, and then frying, how much of that premium vs standard comes through in the final product and what is it that makes a better final product?
> 
> Thanks!



When curing anything, you're removing a small amount of moisture, and in essence concentrating any inherent flavor- for better or for worse...


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## panda (Jun 28, 2016)

Home made bacon tastes monumentally better than commercial stuff. More porkiness, and smoke flavor actually comes through instead of a chemical taste.

Only thing I prefer Berkshire for is chop and loins, duroc everything else.


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## strumke (Jun 29, 2016)

Sounds like I need to seek out some Duroc for my next bacon run. How much should this cost per lb?


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## 9mmbhp (Jun 29, 2016)

strumke said:


> Sounds like I need to seek out some Duroc for my next bacon run. How much should this cost per lb?



$6 to $10 per pound would be a reasonable range. 

Much depends on how the hog was raised. 

As with any food, breed/genetics are important but environment and feed contribute significantly to final quality and price.

Small farm, free-range, pastured, nut/acorn fed pork is worth seeking out and trying.


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## Dan P. (Jun 29, 2016)

9mmbhp said:


> Much depends on how the hog was raised.
> 
> As with any food, breed/genetics are important but environment and feed contribute significantly to final quality and price.
> 
> Small farm, free-range, pastured, nut/acorn fed pork is worth seeking out and trying.



What he said! I've eaten excellent English Large White, which must be the most factory-farm compatible pig in the world, except the pigs in question were reared outside on a varied diet.


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## 9mmbhp (Jun 29, 2016)

Descriptions/characteristics of various breeds:
Heritage Foods Pork Breeds
Pig Breeds​


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## Mucho Bocho (Jun 29, 2016)

Had Dardeau weighed in? dah


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## Dardeau (Jun 29, 2016)

I'm pretty open to bacon ratios. I don't dig the brine method. Most of the bacon I've cured in my time was Berkshire/Duroc cross. My favorite pork for bacon is Snake River Farms/Berkridge. It is incredibly consistent from belly to belly, and within each individual belly.

If I'm going to be slicing for breakfast/sando bacon I like a cooler smoke with a lot of smoke, for lardons/bacon bits I like more heat to caramelize a little and a little less smoke. With the setup I use nowadays precision is not at the forefront, it's really just a big ass fire and a steel box with some shelves and a couple of air vents to get the smoke going in the places you want it.


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## Dardeau (Jun 29, 2016)

****. I saw bacon and my name and laid out my bacon speech. I like belly with the skin on and scored, rendered really slowly on a plancha or a pan you are knocking the totally save able fat out of, not cooking the meat at all. Cover the bottom of a roasting pan with julienned onions, whole garlic, bay leaves, dry chilies, other things that taste good and plastic wrap the ever living **** out of it and basically steam the belly in a really low oven for like eight or ten hours. You can then recrisp it in an iron or carbon steel skillet or drop it in the deep fryer. The fryer option ***** the grease pretty quickly but tastes fine!


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## daveb (Jun 29, 2016)

When in doubt, Sous Vide.


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## Dardeau (Jun 29, 2016)

daveb said:


> When in doubt, Sous Vide.



I'm here and there about circulators. I really like the texture of the steamed belly with aromatics. Classics of Chinese food through a frenchy lens.


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## schanop (Jun 29, 2016)

Dardeau said:


> I really like the texture of the steamed belly with aromatics. Classics of Chinese food through a frenchy lens.



Gotta agree. I have been doing the basic boiled pork, sliced with garlic sauce or chilli sauce with combi oven, steaming pork at 80&#730;C. It takes a bit longer than boiling or steaming at 100&#730;C, but result is fairly nice succulent slice of belly.


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