# Recommendation: High Quality Kitchen Knife Set for Home



## ChessGator (Dec 12, 2016)

Hello, I am currently using a low-end knife set. I have been using various cheapos for 30+ years and finally decided to invest in a high-quality knife set.

My four general criteria are as follows:

1. Dishwasher friendly

2. High quality knife steel

3. Non-wood handle

4. Western style handle

Money is not really an issue, it will depend on the quality of the knife steel and the build quality of the knives 

Thank you and I look forward to your suggestions 

CG


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## fatboylim (Dec 12, 2016)

OK, pretty tough requirements. Any high end knife will be destroyed in a dishwasher! This is because high end steels will rust, even the stain resistant ones. 

Is dishwasher proof a big thing for you? If so, you may not get high end steel.


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## fujiyama (Dec 12, 2016)

Hi CG,

I agree with fatboyslim, you won't find anything high quality and dishwasher friendly. 

What knives do you use most? Sometimes a block set includes things you might not even want to buy.


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## bkultra (Dec 12, 2016)

Any knife you care about, high end or not, should never be put in a dishwasher.


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## ChessGator (Dec 12, 2016)

Hi, I live in Canada and eat western food: Meat and Veggies. I won't be making sushi or filleting eels 

On a side note here is an interesting video I just watched and enjoyed 

Thanks,

CG

[video=youtube;ytHnQsxIszc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytHnQsxIszc[/video]


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## ChessGator (Dec 12, 2016)

bkultra said:


> Any knife you care about, high end or not, should never be put in a dishwasher.



A dishwasher is just hot water with soap! A knife should be able to handle that terrible abuse 

Best regards,

CG


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## ThEoRy (Dec 12, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> A dishwasher is just hot water with soap! A knife should be able to handle that terrible abuse
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> CG



Hahahahahahahaha Good luck ruining your high quality knives. Do you know how hot that water is? Or what the heat and steam will do while drying? It's over 165 in the wash cycle and over 185 in the rinse cycle. I'm sorry but your way off on this one. A high quality knife that can be ran in the dishwasher just doesn't exist.

Besides, what is so hard about simply wiping your knife with a damp towel and then a dry one. Cause that's all you need to do.


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## bkultra (Dec 12, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> A dishwasher is just hot water with soap! A knife should be able to handle that terrible abuse
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> CG



Washing a knife by hand takes less than 30 seconds. A person wanting a nice knife should be able to handle this minimal amount of effort.

Dishwasher detergent takes a brute force approach and most are rather harsh. You will never be able to keep an edge on any knife by putting it in such environment after every use. Speaking of keeping an edge, how do you plan to sharpen this knife?

Perhaps a knife made with space age materials... Like the KNASA


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## ChessGator (Dec 12, 2016)

Hi fellows, okay, so if I take off condition number 1 - dishwasher friendly, what are you recommending? 

Thank you


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## bkultra (Dec 12, 2016)

http://www.haburnknives.com/store/gyuto-integral

Its carbon steel so it will rust if you do not wipe the blade after each use (it can not stay wet at all). It meets all your requirements now that you dropped number 1. Put that knife in a dishwasher and baby Jesus will cry.


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## ChessGator (Dec 12, 2016)

bkultra said:


> http://www.haburnknives.com/store/gyuto-integral
> 
> Its carbon steel so it will rust if you do not wipe the blade after each use (it can not stay wet at all). It meets all your requirements now that you dropped number 1. Put that knife in a dishwasher and baby Jesus will cry.



Hi, interesting choice the same knife steel that Bob Kramer uses for his knives, including the spinoff BK zwilling collection, which sells for approximately $300 per knife, so what makes the Haburn that much better at $1,100?

So is the consensus "high-carbon" over a "carbon-stainless" for high quality kitchen knives?

Thanks


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## bkultra (Dec 12, 2016)

One is a mass production knife and the other is hand made one at a time. The Zwilling also has a wood handle which you did not want.


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## guari (Dec 12, 2016)

Its very difficult to find good quality Japanese knives with a synthetic (plastic) handle, thus why he recommended that knife... 

Take a look at Japanese Chef Knives (google it) and take a look at the stainless knives with a high hardness ( 58+)


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## gic (Dec 12, 2016)

I suppose the highest quality knife that might have a shot (and I mean only a shot) at surviving a session in a dishwasher (what a god awful idea though) is the Chef's Choice Trizor knives available from cutlery and more an, they even have a nice discount on them

But what a crazy idea to put any reasonable knife in the dishwasher


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## ChessGator (Dec 12, 2016)

guari said:


> Its very difficult to find good quality Japanese knives with a synthetic (plastic) handle, thus why he recommended that knife...
> 
> Take a look at Japanese Chef Knives (google it) and take a look at the stainless knives with a high hardness ( 58+)



Hi, yes I was already at that website, which is why I came here! I will need some help to come to a conclusion.

bkultra, you are right about the carbon Kramer knife handle.

Thank you,

CG


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## DaveInMesa (Dec 12, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> So is the consensus "high-carbon" over a "carbon-stainless" for high quality kitchen knives?



Bearing in mind that this is not your average home-cooking forum, we probably should have asked what YOU consider "high quality", beyond your original requirements. One man's trash is another man's treasure, as the saying goes. My Wusthof Grand Prix knife set, which I considered treasure when I bought it, meets all of your stated requirements although the manufacturer _still_ recommends hand washing those knives. The fit-and-finish on them is unsurpassed. The steel, while rather soft by Japanese standards, is of excellent quality and quite stain resistant. The designs are classic European geometry. Most people would consider them high quality knives, and rightly so. And it may be all you need.

However, you have wandered out onto one of the fringes of cooking, where people obsess over knives to a degree that most people would find excessive. Welcome to the world of Knife Geekdom.  Here, the standards are not quite the same. Edge keenness and retention are the priorities, here, and some people here love caring for and sharpening their knives more than using them. After all, you only use a knife for a few minutes a day in a home kitchen, so all the fussing let's you spend more time with your knives. And Japanese steel manufacturers are now the leading developers of so-called "super steels", as you've seen, and all of those are carbon steels. So, most of the recommendations you'd normally get here would be for Japanese hand-crafted knives, but they almost always come with wooden handles and most of them use some (or all) carbon steel. They are fantastic knives, but not everyone needs or can even appreciate the qualities that make them the ultimate geek knives.


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## chinacats (Dec 12, 2016)

Hi carbon, carbon, all the same ****...in fact carbon levels are usually similar between stainless and not.fI'd pick a nice "stainless" knife you like and just not put it in the dishwasher

And about sharpening said knife?


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## ChessGator (Dec 12, 2016)

Hi fellows,

I have given the best info on what I want/need, even conceded the evil dishwasher  

Now that you/we have narrowed it down for us, I would be obliged if you would make some of your best suggestions.

Let's focus on knives first and sharpening later, as it will overwhelm the thread.

Thank you,

CG


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 12, 2016)

What DaveInMesa forgot to mention: Japanese and handcrafted sounds expensive. But perfectly great ones are available in the same price range as medium to top of the line western knives - starting from maybe $80 for something santoku-sized. These tend to be carbon steel and wood handled. They don't even pretend to be even soak proof, let alone dishwasher proof.

Carbon steel= great steel that, however, can rust. 

Stainless steel=rust free if not abused, THIS IS NOT austenitic nickel steel that stainless and dishwasher proof pots and pans are made of. You could not make a kitchen-usable knife out of austenitic. There are many types, you have the conventionally made steels like 420J2 or 1.4416 or AUS-8 you find in almost all western knives, you have the top-of-the-line of the conventional steels - like Gin-3, VG-5, VG10, you have the so called powder metallurgical steels. The first is worse than carbon steel performance wise. The second can sometimes draw even if extreme sharpness is not required. The third is great but expensive...

Semi stainless = treat like carbon steel for now, even if it isn't totally accurate.

High carbon steel, High carbon stainless steel = confusing terms, don't use them here.


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## chinacats (Dec 12, 2016)

Now to the next step, if you'll copy and paste this form, you'll get tailored answers.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 12, 2016)

And BTW, the logic here is "let's focus on sharpening so you have a knife later".... people here expect their non serrated knives to cut a tomato at any time even if they are not new, and keep them that way.


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## ChessGator (Dec 12, 2016)

chinacats said:


> Now to the next step, if you'll copy and paste this form, you'll get tailored answers.



Hi, the criteria have been discussed above, that should be sufficient for now. Thanks.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 12, 2016)

OK, so we can assume that you want a classic knife set (Deba, Yanagiba and Usuba) but western handled?


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## ThEoRy (Dec 12, 2016)

I would also add, let's forget about a set of knives. You really only need 3 maybe four knives to do everything and putting your budget into those knives will yield you a greater quality.

What you should be looking at is a 210mm-240mm gyuto (chef knife), a 150mm petty (utility knife) and about a 90mm pairing knife. Possibly a bread knife as well but it is not a necessity.


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## ChessGator (Dec 12, 2016)

Hi fellows, okay that sounds fine, you lead me where I need to go


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## ThEoRy (Dec 12, 2016)

How much money you got?


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## ChessGator (Dec 13, 2016)

ThEoRy said:


> How much money you got?



As much money as it costs to buy a set knives that when I drop a tomato on the blade it will cut it in half like a hot knife through butter


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## bkultra (Dec 13, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> As much money as it costs to buy a set knives that when I drop a tomato on the blade it will cut it in half like a hot knife through butter



Forget about a "set"... Waist of money. Focus on a chefs (gyuto) a utility (petty) and maybe a slicing (sujihiki) or bread knife. Dropping a tomato on a knife and having it cut is not a hard task for a sharp knife... Now how do you plan to keep these knives sharp, because even a 2k dull knife won't cut.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 13, 2016)

BTW, don't do the tomato test on any knife you aren't willing or able to sharpen. Very thin edges can suffer if you hit them awkwardly with a tomato. And not all good blades will pass it, it is more a geometry than a sharpness test.


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## ChessGator (Dec 13, 2016)

Hi knife buddies,

You fellows are difficult people to get actual knife suggestions from 

May we worry about sharpening later, and focus on the knives for now as the thread will become to confusing 

Thank you and I look forward to your learned suggestions for my very slowly developing knife seletion!

Cordially,

CG


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## bkultra (Dec 13, 2016)

Knowing how and more importantly how often you plan on sharpening effects our recommendations. If you have zero interest in learning how to use stones, we might recommend a high wear resistance steel. You could than send these our to be professionally sharpened... but if you wanted to learn freehand sharpening we might pick a entirely different steel. Somethings that offers good feedback on the stones and is easy to sharpen.


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## jc57 (Dec 13, 2016)

I see you found your way over from Bladeforums on my recommendation. I did try to ask some of the basic questions over there.

- Dishwashers are bad for _any_ kitchen knives, not only expensive ones. Besides the long exposure to hot water and steam, they get banged around by the water jets. The detergents, bleaches, and enzymes in the dishwasher powder can interact with the steel. Maybe not a big deal if it just makes the finish ugly, but "finish" is the surface of the steel, and goes all the way to the edge. So if you are even mildly eating away at the steel, down where it is the thinnest (cutting edge) it will ruin the edge and require sharpening more often.

- Sharpening: You can't discuss knives and sharpening separately. You can't pick a knife without having a plan for maintaining it. You have four options: sharpen yourself, pay to have them professionally sharpened, send them back to the manufacturer for sharpening, or throw them away when too dull to cut. (The last option isn't actually a joke - for serrated knives this is sometimes the recommended approach - you view them as a consumable tool that gets used up.)

So if your plan is to send them in for factory sharpening, then you need to pick a company that offers that. On the other hand, if you plan to sharpen them yourself, then you need to have the skills, tools, and time required for that. And the type of tools depends on the type of steel. With softer German steels, you can get by fine with oil stones. With harder Japanese steels, you will probably want to use water stones.

So again, how you plan to sharpen plays into what kind of knife you should buy.

The biggest question is what are you going to use them for? Mincing herbs, cubing tomatoes, breaking down whole chickens, carving cooked meat, slicing crusty bread? Different knife types, profiles, sharpening angles, and steels are better suited for different tasks.

Or if you don't know, then general purpose knives (like a chef/gyuto, utility, and paring) are all you need, and you can add special purpose knives later when you know what you want to do.

THAT is why they are asking what you think are off topic questions - they are actually on topic.

Otherwise, my suggestion for the Wusthof Classic Ikon still stands - decent German knives, easy steel to maintain, can be purchased in "sets" or individually.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 13, 2016)

BTW, the "classic set" I recommended was *half* a joke - it would be super awesome for a pescetarian willing to learn traditional japanese tools, and frustrate just about any other demographic.


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## ChessGator (Dec 13, 2016)

I will sharpen myself, I was planning to buy water stones. I am not interested in the mainstream German steels, like Wusthof, Henckels, Messermeister or the mainstream Japanese knives like Shun. I want something at a higher quality level!

Thanks,

CG


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## Mute-on (Dec 13, 2016)

Munetoshi
Itinomonn
Toyama
All high value and high quality from JNS. 
Other wise contact Jon at JKI for advice if in the US. 
Cheers 
J


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## guari (Dec 13, 2016)

What caught your fancy in jck website?


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## Nemo (Dec 13, 2016)

I still don't get what is the problem with filling out the questionnaire is. There is a reason that the questionnaire is structured that way: The questions are all relevant to what would be recommended. Fill out the questionnaire and you'll be surprised how quickly you get relevant answers.


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## ChessGator (Dec 13, 2016)

Mute-on said:


> Munetoshi
> Itinomonn
> Toyama
> All high value and high quality from JNS.
> ...



Not western handles.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 13, 2016)

Oh, and if it is a JCK Kagayaki: I'd get the ES version and microbevel it straight after unpacking. That goes tenfold if it is the monosteel VG10 option


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## daveb (Dec 14, 2016)

I've followed this thread and have been a bit baffled since it's inception. Dishwasher aside you want:

You want "quality" but have had a hard time definitizing it.

You've eschewed the German offerings.

You've eschewed wooden handles made of wood.

You want Western handles.

The resultant requirements are for higher end, Japanese knives, with pakkawood, western handles. And that my friend is not going to be available "off the shelf".

Japanese makers use real wood to make handles. Not pakkawood, not plastic, not synthetics, not metal.

At the very high end some makers have western handles available. Shig, Kato, Yoshikane and others offer westerns. The handles are made of wood and all involve a waiting list.

At the low end some makers have western handles available. Some may be made of pakkawood but I'm not aware of them. Global makes a what would be considered a low end knife with metal handles that would be an improvement over your current knives (as ambiguously described)

You may consider rank ordering your requirements and being willing to lose one to meet another. 

The only ways that I see to meet them all would be (1) buy Globals, (2) to purchase off the shelf knives configured for western handles and have custom replacements made for them (this route might be kind of cool actually) or (3) buy full on customs. Haburn makes some very nice knives with some very nice synthetic handles. His waiting list is not short and you would have to reach deep.

Sorry this has been difficult to answer but your'e asking for a Formula One car and requiring air conditioning and an auto transmission.


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## skewed (Dec 14, 2016)

ChessGator-

Tojiro DP line would be a good choice. I have repeatedly purchased these knives as gifts for friends who are avid home cooks. They have all been very well received and enjoyed. It would be a large step up from the knives you are use to. They do have the 'eco' wood handles which I believe is a plastic/wood composite that is very stable (more like plastic than wood). The vg10 steel is well done and pretty darn good.

Also, many people have spoken well of the step up powdered steel Tojiros. They are a bit thinner and more wear resistant but I have only seen gyutos from this line so you would have to grab a petty from the DP line.

As others have said, a 240mm gyuto, 150mm petty and a bread knife would take care of 99% of most peoples demands for kitchen knives. BTW the Tojiro DP bread knives is a solid purchase.

I hope this helps,
rj


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## chinacats (Dec 14, 2016)

yeah, i walked when no questionnaire and stopped back to see if any progress...nope...buy a Global...


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## Factotum (Dec 14, 2016)

Second Tojiro for value line and will add Fujiwara stainless to that mix. For something higher end with Western handle that's easy to maintain look at Kurosaki R2 or Nenox.


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## malexthekid (Dec 14, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> As much money as it costs to buy a set knives that when I drop a tomato on the blade it will cut it in half like a hot knife through butter



A $5 kiwi it is then.

Will do just as you ask


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## Jkts (Dec 14, 2016)

How about the hattori forum knives with the black linen micarta handles from JCK or nenox knives through Korin. Both are nice sets with western style non-wood handles and are relatively easy to care for.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 14, 2016)

The last thing I'd want to risk is exposing a hollow/non-massive metal handled knife (eg Global) to soaking or the dishwasher 

...

Only maker I'm aware of that makes (only small, paring and table sized) "dishwasher proof" knives of a steel better than 1.4116 and with wood-ish handles is Opinel (NOT all Opinels by a long shot!)


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## Mute-on (Dec 14, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> Not western handles.



Yeah, I missed that part of your requirements. Shame, because these wa handled knives are top quality and value for money. 

Call Jon. Tell him your criteria. Listen to what he says, then buy what he suggests. He is renowned for matching the right knife to the user.


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## ChessGator (Dec 14, 2016)

Jkts said:


> How about the hattori forum knives with the black linen micarta handles from JCK or nenox knives through Korin. Both are nice sets with western style non-wood handles and are relatively easy to care for.



Hi, what is the name of the knife steel that Nenox knives uses? They just state high carbon stainless.

Thank you,

CG


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## fatboylim (Dec 14, 2016)

chinacats said:


> yeah, i walked when no questionnaire and stopped back to see if any progress...nope...buy a Global...



A wild goose chase of requirements without the questionnaire answers; very entertaining from a far... Global it sounds like too!

The End... Next person.


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## Jkts (Dec 14, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> Hi, what is the name of the knife steel that Nenox knives uses? They just state high carbon stainless.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> CG



It appears that the manufacturer himself keeps the type of steel secret so all references are kind of vague. His catalogue FAQ speaks briefly on steel types without stating what he uses. In another interview, he will not divulge the steel type.

While I have several hattori knives, I cannot speak to nenox. Are you interested in performance of the steel from people's experience? For nenox, if the type of steel is kept secret, guessing would be speculation.


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## richard (Dec 14, 2016)

In past discussions (some on other forums), some have suspected VG1.


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## ChessGator (Dec 14, 2016)

richard said:


> In past discussions (some on other forums), some have suspected VG1.



The Nenox secret steel


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## Nemo (Dec 14, 2016)

Even if it is VG1, a poor steel with a great HT is much better than a great steel with a poor HT. And I don't think VG1 is a poor steel.


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## Nemo (Dec 14, 2016)

Will you accept a Pakkawood handle? Look at Ryusen Blazen. I just realised that JKI now has them.


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## kostantinos (Dec 14, 2016)

Not to be disrespectful but i dont know of anything high end that goes in the dishwasher . And if you talk about dishwasher is only soap and water so is the kitchen sink and i wouldnt throw my knifes in the sink and i mean any knife or any sink whatsoever , at any time. I handwash them , all my tools actually ,dry them religiously and store them apropriatelly in their own bag/ sheath/ drawer. 

would you wanna take a ferrari to the gas station automatic carwash to get it cleaned ? would you leave it outside during a storm ? would you clean it with just water and soap ? would you let it dry in the sun bake in 100 degrees or 30 degrees freezing road full of salt unprotected from the elements?
Take that aproach to knifes and you undertand that everything has maintanance . High end knifes come with apropriate maintanance .Maintanance equals continued performance .


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## richard (Dec 14, 2016)

It's a misunderstanding to think that dishwasher is just soap and water. The temperatures and pressures involved are much higher, and the detergents a lot harsher, so it's a totally different physical environment.


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## Bodine (Dec 14, 2016)

As a newbie, I must say this has been an amusing read.
Maybe I should put my sterling flatware in the dishwasher too.


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## malexthekid (Dec 14, 2016)

Bodine said:


> As a newbie, I must say this has been an amusing read.
> Maybe I should put my sterling flatware in the dishwasher too.



Of course you should. Its high-end afterall, so it must be able to go in the dishwasher....


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 14, 2016)

On the other hand... if it was a high-end jeep, you'd likely go for the carwash or worse proudly  But then we're talking knives meant for mass foodservice and butchers, with very boring blades... I guess they are not the kind of professional grade that you want in your home kitchen ...


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## ThEoRy (Dec 14, 2016)

Back on topic here. With the vague information provided I see the vague recommendations rolling in. I guess this is why we created the questionnaire. Almost 3 pages in and we're no closer to a solution. Oh well, can't say we didn't try. 

My advise, don't listen to the Global recommendation and I'd stay away from the nenox too. Just give Jon from Japanese Knife Imports a call and see if he can help where we've failed. 

Sorry I couldn't be of more help but again, with vague information we can only provide vague recommendations.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 14, 2016)

Had to refrain from recommending "if you think your dishwasher runs on soap and water, feed it soap next time and see what happens".

DON'T!!!

The expectation we have nowadays of dishwasher detergents is that they more or less disassemble anything organic back into their component atoms and wash a slurry of mainly very tiny white balls, big black balls, medium sized blue and red balls straight down the drain  Not quite, but there is a reason that while soap is well recommended to put on your hand frequently, the same is as recommendable with dishwasher powder as doing it with a mix of lye, bleach, and meat tenderizer concentrate.


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## kostantinos (Dec 15, 2016)

I will second what theory said about Jon . I send all the guys and gals that work for me to Jon based on his undying commitment to match the right knife with the right guy. Plus his selection is awesome and he is a guy you can always count on for advise.


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## Paolo (Dec 15, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> Hi fellows, okay, so if I take off condition number 1 - dishwasher friendly, what are you recommending?
> 
> Thank you



Hattori CowryX (KD serie) if you're patient enough....


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 15, 2016)

I'd say get a $130-$250 gyuto or santoku or petty now, of any brand that is often recommended here, and gain experience with it.


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## ChessGator (Dec 15, 2016)

Paolo said:


> Hattori CowryX (KD serie) if you're patient enough....



Sounds good but it is always "out of stock"


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## AzHP (Dec 15, 2016)

Anyone recommend the Takamura R2 line yet? Western handle, sharp as all get out, won't need sharpening very often.


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## rick alen (Dec 15, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> A dishwasher is just hot water with soap! A knife should be able to handle that terrible abuse
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> CG



Late coming in but...

Facetious? Pretty dry if so. I don't believe there are any fine handle materials, synthetic or otherwise, that won't deteriorate in the dishwasher, and then there is all the knocking around going on about your nice fine and thin edge, that will likely chip, if not only get dinged. 

As The ThEoRy says, what's so hard about a quick rinse/wipe with wet towel and wipe dry? Nothing of course, and actually far more convenient and smarter than leaving your knife decaying on the counter for hours before throwing it in the washer, then pulling it out.


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## Nemo (Dec 15, 2016)

AzHP said:


> Anyone recommend the Takamura R2 line yet? Western handle, sharp as all get out, won't need sharpening very often.



No, but I did suggest Ryusen Blazen, which may (or may not, depending on what you believe) be similar to the Takamura Pro (the black not the red handle). JKI now has the Blazen, so if the OP speaks to Jon, I'm sure Jon will recommend what he feels will suit the OP best (whether that be a Blazen or something even more dishwasher unfriendly :wink


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## Jkts (Dec 16, 2016)

Following this thread, based on the op's patience and not blinking at the prices out there, I think the op wants and can afford a great set of knives. 

There is a whole learning process on how to handle and care for this type and quality of knife beyond washing - drying, storage, cutting board choice, protection of the edge from hard materials, not using steels or normal sharpening, etc that it would be good to know so you can keep these knives sharp and in good condition.


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## ChessGator (Dec 16, 2016)

Jkts said:


> Following this thread, based on the op's patience and not blinking at the prices out there, I think the op wants and can afford a great set of knives.
> 
> There is a whole learning process on how to handle and care for this type and quality of knife beyond washing - drying, storage, cutting board choice, protection of the edge from hard materials, not using steels or normal sharpening, etc that it would be good to know so you can keep these knives sharp and in good condition.



Hi, what type of cutting board does the forum recommend? I currently have a kind of plastic one. 

Thank you,

CG


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## bkultra (Dec 16, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> Hi, what type of cutting board does the forum recommend? I currently have a kind of plastic one.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> CG




Wooden preferably end grain or a soft synthetic board (san tuff, hi-soft).


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## Jkts (Dec 16, 2016)

Hinoki boards are also good. Thicker ones (1") are nice.


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## ChessGator (Dec 16, 2016)

Jkts said:


> Hinoki boards are also good. Thicker ones (1") are nice.



Hi, the problem with wooden boards is when I put them in the dishwasher the glue comes apart. Is there a synthetic cutting board that your recommend?

Thank you,

CG


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## bkultra (Dec 16, 2016)

Either your obsessed with the dishwasher or you are trolling us. I recommended two good brands of synthetic boards is my above post.


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## Jkts (Dec 16, 2016)

Funny and sad! Japanese knives and boards don't fit your lifestyle... best of luck!


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## daveb (Dec 16, 2016)

I like paper towels on top of a rock. When done throw the paper towels away and put the rock back in the creek.


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## supersayan3 (Dec 16, 2016)

ThEoRy said:


> Hahahahahahahaha Good luck ruining your high quality knives. Do you know how hot that water is? Or what the heat and steam will do while drying? It's over 165 in the wash cycle and over 185 in the rinse cycle. I'm sorry but your way off on this one. A high quality knife that can be ran in the dishwasher just doesn't exist.
> 
> Besides, what is so hard about simply wiping your knife with a damp towel and then a dry one. Cause that's all you need to do.



+1.
Also keep in mind that the soap isn't the ordinary green(or whatever other color) liquid soap that you use for hand wash.
It is very aggressive. Also drying liquid is included. While younger, I had put some ballon whisks with colorful handle and the top part of a grinding machine in a dishwasher.
When they came out, the upper layer of their surface was no longer there [emoji33]


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## Nemo (Dec 16, 2016)

Good quality end grain wood.


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## ThEoRy (Dec 16, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> I put them in the dishwasher



Lol, stop.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 16, 2016)

There are dishwasher-proof wood fiber boards by epicurean.

What NOT to use, IMHO: Any plastic boards with a "grippy" or VERY soft texture. Edge trap, especially when rocking or walking.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 16, 2016)

Oh, and if I didn't mention: no plastic straw knife blocks for thin edges.


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## Krassi (Dec 16, 2016)

After following this thread you seem to know a lot about good knifes and details .. if you know that hattoris are always out of stock, than you know them....

..sooo i recommend you to buy an imperial lightsaber (dondt get the green ones!! they suck)
The special stormtrooper Ice planet models can be washed in a dishwasher. Also they cut any board with one swing so it does not matter what material the board is!
I hope this helps you! because nothing seems to help you and we are on page 9 already.. so dondt get the green ones!!

If you really want some knifes then its awesome if you fill out the form!


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## AzHP (Dec 16, 2016)

This person is very committed to their long con of trolling this forums users. I'm kind of surprised at how helpful people are still being in spite of it.


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## Krassi (Dec 16, 2016)

did my post sound ironic?  Well everything has been recommended trillion times here and reading first sometimes help..

but still dondt take the green ones! they suck!


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## ChessGator (Dec 16, 2016)

bkultra said:


> Wooden preferably end grain or a soft synthetic board (san tuff, hi-soft).



My apologies, I should have read your post more thoroughly. Hi-Soft cutting board is not dishwasher friendly, not sure about the other.

Thank you,

CG


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## ChessGator (Dec 17, 2016)

The Prepworks by Progressive Cutting Board - 17.38" X 11.25" seems to be mentioned as a very good to best cutting board (1) in several reviews I have been reading!

*Plastic:* Plastics are harder on knife edges and will show more gouge marks than wood, but are much easier to clean*which is why we think theyre best for most people*. They can be run through the dishwasher, making them more versatile for prepping things like raw meat. All plastic boards scar over time, and the deeper cuts are where bacteria hide out. Most of the experts we spoke with recommend replacing plastic boards every two years. When a sponge or dishcloth snags on the board, or your knife skips over deep cuts, its time for a new one. The same goes for warped boards.

*Wood:* Although attractive and easier on knives, wood boards require more maintenance than plasticthey must be washed carefully and oiled on a regular schedule. Youll find them in two styles: end and edge grain. End grain boards are made of a number of board ends glued together, and they can be more gentle on knives, because the edge slides between the vertical wood fibers. Cuts and other marks tend to close more efficiently, self-healing over time, but the exposed ends also make them easier to dry out, stain, and crack. Edge grain boards (like our Proteak pick) are the sides of boards glued together in alternating strips, with the sides (edges) facing up. These boards tend to be harder on knife edges than end grain, but they also withstand moisture-based cracking and splitting better, and are easier to clean. (This diagram illustrates the difference between end and edge grain nicely.)

*Composite and other materials:* Composite boards are essentially many layers of Richlite baked and pressed together. They are food-safe and easily maintained, but generally quite tough on knife edges. Youll also find granite and glass boards, but these are even worse for retaining a sharp blade.


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## Jkts (Dec 17, 2016)

As long as you can throw it in a dishwasher, I think you're good!


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## chinacats (Dec 17, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> The Prepworks by Progressive Cutting Board - 17.38" X 11.25" seems to be mentioned as a very good to best cutting board (1) in several reviews I have been reading!
> 
> *Plastic:* Plastics are harder on knife edges and will show more gouge marks than wood, but are much easier to clean*which is why we think theyre best for most people*. They can be run through the dishwasher, making them more versatile for prepping things like raw meat. All plastic boards scar over time, and the deeper cuts are where bacteria hide out. Most of the experts we spoke with recommend replacing plastic boards every two years. When a sponge or dishcloth snags on the board, or your knife skips over deep cuts, its time for a new one. The same goes for warped boards.
> 
> ...




And you could've found that board without our help at all...buy the damn ****** board and a ****** knife and stop asking questions...


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## DanDan (Dec 17, 2016)

daveb said:


> I like paper towels on top of a rock. When done throw the paper towels away and put the rock back in the creek.



Can I sharpen my knives with the rock? Will it go in the dishwasher?


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## Bodine (Dec 17, 2016)

My idea of a dishwasher


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## DaveInMesa (Dec 17, 2016)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> What DaveInMesa forgot to mention: Japanese and handcrafted sounds expensive. But perfectly great ones are available in the same price range as medium to top of the line western knives - starting from maybe $80 for something santoku-sized.


I didn't forget. I remembered that other people had already said that  And I LOVE my $60 handcrafted J-knife!


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 17, 2016)

@Bodine don't recommend that model to the thread opener, he might stick a knife in her!

That prepworks board looks like IKEA, just that you'd get a wood board at IKEA for that price


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## aboynamedsuita (Dec 17, 2016)

I replied to a PM from the OP back when this thread was only a single page. The OP is apparently from Canada (didn't recall seeing this as the questionnaire hasn't been completed) so I recommended that they consider the ZK essential 8" or 10" chef as well as 3.5" and/or 5" petty/utility because it isn't too thin and is readily available from online kitchenware stores for a good price. 

Also made it clear that dishwashers are a no go, so am surprised that this has gone on as long as it has. Having used cheap knives for 30 years, he shall repeat the same if not willing to accept the advise of this thread WRT knives and cutting boards.


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## aboynamedsuita (Dec 17, 2016)

...


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 17, 2016)

Slightly OT: I wonder if someone COULD make a decent dishwasher-proof (chemically, would need to be fixed in the dishwasher obviously) sanmai - could "german" steel be driven to a decent HRC if protected with Jigane?


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## daveb (Dec 17, 2016)

chinacats said:


> And you could've found that board without our help at all...buy the damn ****** board and a ****** knife and stop asking questions...




Ahh, sacrificing tact for clarity.

That may be a good thing.


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## guari (Dec 17, 2016)

I wonder if he's truly trolling the board


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## Jkts (Dec 17, 2016)

After all this is the "Kitchen Knife Forums" ...

After much thought, I recommend the Dexter Russell sanisafe series. Used by tens of thousands of commercial kitchens and even though the manufacturer advises not putting in the dish washer, I suspect many kitchen staff do, with little loss in performance- and the white handles will match the progressive cutting board. 

Most of the knives we've recommended would chew up the progressive board, so you need an edge and softness of steel that matches.


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## Noodle Soup (Dec 17, 2016)

This might be one time when Global would be a good answer. A dishwasher isn't going to do the blades any good but the handles should stand up to it fine. 

A few years ago my boss at the time bought a bunch of soft rubber handled Cold Steel kitchen knife sets to give to clients at Christmas. She kept one set for herself and proceeded to run them through her dishwasher every day. Soon the handles came un-glued or whatever and fell off. She asked me about it and when I said don't run them through the dishwasher, she asked "why would anyone want knives you can't run through a dishwasher?" I think there are a lot of people like her out there.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 17, 2016)

@Noodle Soup these handles aren't massive.....


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## DaveInMesa (Dec 18, 2016)

ChessGator said:


> The Prepworks by Progressive Cutting Board - 17.38" X 11.25" .



I've used something very similar in a couple of commercial kitchens. We still washed them by hand. :2cents:


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## guari (Dec 18, 2016)

Noodle Soup said:


> This might be one time when Global would be a good answer. A dishwasher isn't going to do the blades any good but the handles should stand up to it fine.
> 
> A few years ago my boss at the time bought a bunch of soft rubber handled Cold Steel kitchen knife sets to give to clients at Christmas. She kept one set for herself and proceeded to run them through her dishwasher every day. Soon the handles came un-glued or whatever and fell off. She asked me about it and when I said don't run them through the dishwasher, she asked "why would anyone want knives you can't run through a dishwasher?" I think there are a lot of people like her out there.



I've read (or heard from youtube, on the japanology channel, that globals gave problems with the handles coming off in the begining when used in western restaurants because both chefs used to treat them as soft steels and abuse them, and because the cold hot cold cycles of a dishwasher would eventually loosen up the blade-handle.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 18, 2016)

There are makers that officially say "we don't recommend putting our knives in the dishwasher but it will not destroy them.". Sadly, these are... too German for most tastes here.


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## fatboylim (Dec 21, 2016)

... and still no questionnaire. I'm amazed this thread has lasted so long... I'm getting dizzy watching people chase their tails.


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