# Recommendation for an appropriate coarse stone?



## Bob_McBob (Jan 27, 2016)

I'm finally getting more serious about sharpening after several years of dicking around with an EdgePro and generally neglecting my knives. I have dabbled with freehanding now and then and amassed a decent set of stones.

DMT XXC
DMT D8C
Beston 500
Shapton Glass 1000
Bester 1200
Shapton Glass 4000
Takenoko 10k

I've been working on thinning a couple of knives with really thick edges caused by the EdgePro. My first attempt was on a beater Lee Valley peasant chef's knife, which was a little odd to work with since it has a full height bevel with a slightly concave grind that is rather uneven. The Beston 500 was pretty slow going, and my D8C appears to be mostly spent. I'm interested in getting a coarse stone that will let me thin a bit more efficiently than the Beston. Since I'm in Canada, I'm rather tempted to pop over to LVT and grab a Sigma Power Select II 240, but I have read differing opinions about this stone (it comes in multiple versions?). I'd certainly appreciate any advice on what to add to my setup.

Next up is a Tojiro 240mm gyuto with a super thick edge, so I'll also be looking into refinishing and potentially restoring the kasumi finish as well.


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## chiffonodd (Jan 27, 2016)

Been using an Atoma 140 and shapton pro 120 recently with good effect for thinning.


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## Bob_McBob (Jan 29, 2016)

I went to Lee Valley to have a look at their stones, and ended up buying an Atoma 140 on a whim because I could see they were about to raise the price significantly (it went up the next day). I would definitely feel more comfortable putting a knife on it than the DMT XXC, but in general I think I prefer to stick to stones for sharpening. I basically only use the DMT for flattening, so I'm not sure whether I'll keep the Atoma.

I also picked up a King 800 to try since a lot of people like using it to refinish kasumi. I was working my Tojiro DP on the Beston 500 today and had a quick go with the King and it definitely produces the hazy finish as promised with minimal effort. It's a very soft stone though!

The Beston 500 feels rather tedious for removing any significant amount of material as I am doing with my EdgePro refugee Tojiro. I think I will go ahead and order a Shapton Pro 220 unless anyone has another suggestions.


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## TurboScooter (Jan 29, 2016)

FWIW I did my 270 DP on a Shapton Pro 320. Well, I actually used a Norton Crystolon on the first go, cleaned it up and used it, decided I wanted to go thinner and used the Shapton 320 the second time. The Shapton felt much better suited for that job.


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## Bob_McBob (Jan 30, 2016)

Thanks for your input! I don't suppose you have a photo of your final result, or recommendations for refinishing when I'm finished, do you?


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## TurboScooter (Jan 30, 2016)

When I did this, I was doing it on pretty much brand new DP because I was not satisfied with its OOTB performance. I did different things to it in various stages, from what I figured was least aggressive to the most aggressive.

I actually refinished it much nicer the first time; I had a pretty close to mirror finish. Part of this was because I was trying to see if the OOTB finish was contributing to the feeling of dragging. Second time around I kinda half a**ed the refinishing for a few reasons.

I feel like the finish was a part of it, but quite a small part.

I reused the sandpaper from the first time, and it was a little tired and not cutting so well as fresh paper. I used 3M wet/dry auto sandpaper in various grits.

I also figured I might want to thin further. If I refinish it super nicely and want to thin more it's a bunch of time and effort wasted, so I should really take the full effort to refinish after I'm sure the performance is where I want it. It cuts much better than OOTB, but I'm still on the fence if I want to push further or not. I do feel like I could push it further, especially near the tip.

Since I'm waffling about going further or not, I've been using it in its half refinished state, and I kind of don't care *that* much about the finish anymore.

If you really want to refinish nicely I would split the work over several sessions. Because of my schedule and because I wanted to use the knife sooner rather than later I was trying to do it all at once. I knew this was quite dumb unrealistic, but I tried anyway. My hands, especially my thumbs, felt arthritic for several days afterwards, which was super awesome when I went to the gym.


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## Bob_McBob (Jan 30, 2016)

Looks like I'll be ordering a Shapton Pro 220 when I sort out what else to get this weekend.

My Tojiro came with a really unevenly ground secondary bevel that was a real pain to fix freehand, which is one of the reasons I ended up putting it on the EdgePro in the first place. It's my beater gyuto and sharpening test bed so I am not too concerned about screwing it up. I've been working on it now and then for a couple days now and it's quite fascinating seeing the performance improvement every night as it gets thinner.

Once I have finished thinning the primary bevel and cleaned up the cosmetics, should I just thin behind the edge slightly as I sharpen?


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## Nife (Jan 31, 2016)

If I get a very coarse stone, I would go for a Nuubatama 150 grit or a Nuubatama 60 grit for major repairs of very hard steel. An Atoma 140 would also be a good choice.


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## daveb (Jan 31, 2016)

Can't imagine any circumstance that would have me shopping for nuuwho stone. They're reserved for "Black Steel" knives and I don't have one.


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## Tall Dark and Swarfy (Jan 31, 2016)

Since you already have the Edge Pro it wouldn't hurt to play with it a bit.

Take off the stock mechanism and replace it with a simple stud mount rod end. I think the size is 5/16" and you should be able to pick it up for well under $10. That gets you into thinning territory. You might still need a shim on the blade table to get the angles you seem to be shooting for. 

Then use 3M 125u diamond films mounted on your glass blank. I buy mine from PSI. Metal will fly off the blade. The surface left will be appropriate to go straight into the 1K Shapton. 

Cheers,

Rick


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## Bob_McBob (Feb 4, 2016)

I've had a few sessions on the Beston so far; definitely starting to get the hang of things, especially how and when to flatten while thinning. The back isn't quite as even and I think I hit one section a little lightly. There are also weird hollow spots on either side of the tip I assume are either from the original grind or the EdePro. I think I should be done in a couple more sessions, and I'll wait for the Shapton to arrive before moving on to another knife.


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## TurboScooter (Feb 4, 2016)

One thing I tried to take note of when I was thinning was how my lamination line looked. OOTB the line on mine was pretty straight/even (the lamination line is the same shape as the edge), so when I thinned it out I tried to and pretty much kept it that way, it's just higher up.

In your first picture you can see your line drops lower near the tip and heel, and just past the halfway point (nearer to the heel side) it looks like the line rises a touch. The second pic is farther away, but it looks like it's following the same general pattern of low on the ends and higher in the middle with the small rise just past the halfway point.


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## Bob_McBob (Feb 4, 2016)

Thanks, I noticed the same thing, especially on the back. I suspect I am being a little ginger at the tip and heel. I don't have an original photo of my gyuto, but I believe it came with an uneven lamination line like these examples, so it's probably not quite as bad as it looks. The grind of the original primary bevel was quite wonky and you can see a big round hollow at the heel further up.


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## TurboScooter (Feb 8, 2016)

Well, thanks to you I got some inspiration and got off my lazy butt and continued to push a little further on the thinning job on mine. I didn't bother refinishing this time, just touched up the edge to cut some stuff.

Just washing the blade there is hilarious drag from the 320 grit stone scratches on there now. I'll save the refinishing for another day.


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## Bob_McBob (Feb 10, 2016)

Another day, another session...

I mentioned before the other bevel was very uneven. I guess I must have missed when I first started and just compounded the issue with each previous session. You can't see the lamination line well in the photos, but it clearly lined up with the uneven bevel. Took over an hour to fix it up, and there is still a bit of a hollow at the heel.

I am starting to really dislike the Beston 500 for thinning, contrary to my previous experience with regular sharpening. It's so thirsty I am spraying it practically every minute to stop it from feeling like dry sandpaper. Looking into some alternatives like the Gesshin 400.


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## johnstoc (Feb 19, 2016)

I love my Gesshin 400, but it is certainly a thirsty stone (and I keep it perma-soaked). It isnt a problem for me, but could be for someone who is bothered by a porous stone. I have no experience with the Beston so can't compare.


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## _PixelNinja (Feb 19, 2016)

For thinning I would look at coarser stones than 400 unless you don't mind spending a significant amount of time at it...


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## daveb (Feb 20, 2016)

orveusz said:


> I have Gesshin 400 and I really like it and can recommend it.



Pictures?


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## panda (Feb 20, 2016)

@ dave, lmao


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## KimBronnum (Feb 20, 2016)

I use a JNS 300. I know exatly what you mean about the Beston 500. Totally anoying. 
- Kim


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## mqphoto (Feb 20, 2016)

KimBronnum said:


> I use a JNS 300. I know exatly what you mean about the Beston 500. Totally anoying.
> - Kim



Do you like it? JNS 300? I'm thinking about one


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## V1P (Feb 20, 2016)

I have JNS 300, it is a nice stone. I do not have many low grit stones to compare to, but I have quite a few stones in my line up and using the JNS 300 is a joy, it has great feedback, removes metal quick and needs no lapping for a long time. It is also a splash & go, which is nice.


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## _PixelNinja (Feb 20, 2016)

Some people do not know this I was one of them but the JNS 300 currently sold by Maksim is a new version of the stone. 

The old JNS 300 (210mm x 70mm x 25mm) looks like a slab of concrete which can be used either S&G or permasoaked, whereas the new JNS 300 (210mm x 64mm x 32mm) is a stone with lacquered sides and, to the best of my knowledge, is only S&G.


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## Bob_McBob (Feb 22, 2016)

How different is the current version of the JNS 300? I am really liking the look of it from old posts, but shipping here is almost $50 unless I buy other stones, and I guess I won't be making any WTB posts on KKF for quite a long time at my current post rate.


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## _PixelNinja (Feb 22, 2016)

Bob_McBob said:


> How different is the current version of the JNS 300? I am really liking the look of it from old posts, but shipping here is almost $50 unless I buy other stones, and I guess I won't be making any WTB posts on KKF for quite a long time at my current post rate.



I do not know how they compare since I exchanged my JNS 300 (new version) with another member here who owned a JNS 300 (old version) before using it. 

The JNS 300 currently sold my Maksim looks like this:


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## preizzo (Feb 25, 2016)

Gessin 220 grit pink brick. 
Best corse stone I ever tried


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## masibu (Feb 25, 2016)

I was addicted to thinning my knives excessively for some time and have had the misfortunate of using a few coarse stones. I've just started thinning again recently, with a yoshikane skd and a mizuno and I am contemplating giving the carbon fujiwara a crack when I eventually finish. I find the atoma 140 diamond plate great in that it stays flat but I'm also worried about tearing diamonds up or whatever. They also seem to cut really well in the beginning stages but then after a bit of use don't seem to cut as well and it feels like the knife is kind of "sliding" on the stone. It could also just me tripping nuts though. I've also got a shapton pro in both 120 and 220 grits. The 120 cuts well but mine isn't the most flat at the moment as when I used to use it I was really getting impatient and going to down on the pressure and really neglecting the stone. I haven't used it in a while but I recall it being pretty messy in use and not overly pleasant in use (not that thinning is pleasurable anyway). The 220 shapton feels like it's slowly wearing away metal and it gets pretty messy within 10 minutes. After half an hour thinning it's a bit of a mudbath. It does feel good in use and I'm taking care to keep it flat which actually haven't proven difficult. I have a norton here (which I can't remember the grit rating or compound.. appears to be an oil stone) which stays flat which is a plus but it doesn't have the greatest speed. At the moment I'm swapping between the 220 and norton and even using the 220 as a nagura for the norton in a desperate bid to increase the cutting speed. I'm wishing I forked out more money for a high quality belt sander instead as I really don't have a lot of time or patience to grind away steel on a stone anymore. I have a imanishi pink brick here too which is a similar experience to the shapton 220 only softer and muddier. I never use it. 

Can't believe you're thinning with a beston... been in that boat before and it drove me absolutely insane. I did find the feel of the stone improved quite a lot as I wore it out but it's really just not coarse and fast enough to thin down copious amounts of metal. I'm curious about a jns 300 and also the suehiro stones but I'm not really feeling to spend up on coarse stones just yet considering I already have a number of them. I think I want something medium-hard feeling like the beston but a bit coarser/faster and ideally not super thirsty/requires significant soaking time.


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## CoqaVin (Feb 25, 2016)

I don't use synths to much, but for repair jobs and such, I use the Suehiro Cerax 320


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## labor of love (Jun 11, 2016)

preizzo said:


> Gessin 220 grit pink brick.
> Best corse stone I ever tried



Really? I've been curious about those. I'm on the market for the fastest thinning stone I can find.


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## Dardeau (Jun 11, 2016)

You can borrow mine next time you are in town. It's pretty damn fast.


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## preizzo (Jun 11, 2016)

Those or a naniwa lobster &#128521;


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## mikedtran (Jun 11, 2016)

I would recommend the JNS 300, love that it is splash and go.

Cuts fast, doesn't load, and just feels good, doesn't feel scratchy at all. 

I have tried most of the JNS lines and the 300 and 6000 are easily my favorites.


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## V1P (Jun 12, 2016)

mikedtran said:


> I would recommend the JNS 300, love that it is splash and go.
> 
> Cuts fast, doesn't load, and just feels good, doesn't feel scratchy at all.
> 
> I have tried most of the JNS lines and the 300 and 6000 are easily my favorites.



+1 to Mike's recommendation.


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