# looking to get started but confused



## Juan (Sep 1, 2019)

hi everyone,

first off id like to apologize as this has been covered in other posts, however for someone at my level its quite overwhelming. I like everyone else here want to sharpen my edges, but I'm terribly lost on where to start and what stones I should start with. I have a few kitchen knives and also restore/use straight razors. I'm looking for recommendations on reading materials, videos or how to determine what stones I should start with. as a beginner I'm not against entry-level stones, I'd actually would prefer not to muck up good stones in the process of learning. Also, should I buy used? if so what should I look in used stones?

i guess in summary:

what range of stones?
combo vs non?
used vs new?
resources on techniques to use 
thanks for any input or guidance, looking forward to learning and sharing my progress


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## SeattleBen (Sep 1, 2019)

Canonical answer for videos is going to be Jon Broida and Peter Nowlan. They're both super accessible and useful. 

Just buy new stones. 

There really aren't going to be bad stones recommended.


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## kayman67 (Sep 2, 2019)

1. Middle of the road stone. Since you are doing razors as well, I would say Shapton Pro 2k. 

2. Next step stone. Also having razors in mind, if I were to need one, I would get Naniwa Hayabusa 4k. Cheap, great performer with most steels, killer carbon stone if you use any. A nice alternative is Shapton Glass HC 4k, but more expensive. I would be a happy camper with Hayabusa. 

3. Naniwa Fuji 8k or even better, the Glass HC 8k, but again, quite expensive in comparison. Difficult choice for me here, since I love the HC 8k a lot. 

4. Honestly you don't need the 12k after any of these. With a very light touch on the 8ks, the differences are minimal. If you finish on a natural, skipping the 12k is even easier. 

All should be great razor stones (main concern) and all perform at a high level with most alloys. 

5. Coarse stone. I don't really know that many solid coarse stones, but you can consider a diamond plate (Atoma) or a crystolon (not good for razors though) or a water stone (right now I'm looking into Nano hone 200).


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## Juan (Sep 3, 2019)

SeattleBen said:


> Canonical answer for videos is going to be Jon Broida and Peter Nowlan. They're both super accessible and useful.
> 
> Just buy new stones.
> 
> There really aren't going to be bad stones recommended.



awesome, I've started watching Jon's. I'm sure I will keep referencing it. 





kayman67 said:


> 1. Middle of the road stone. Since you are doing razors as well, I would say Shapton Pro 2k.
> 
> 2. Next step stone. Also having razors in mind, if I were to need one, I would get Naniwa Hayabusa 4k. Cheap, great performer with most steels, killer carbon stone if you use any. A nice alternative is Shapton Glass HC 4k, but more expensive. I would be a happy camper with Hayabusa.
> 
> ...



Thank you this is very helpful i will start looking into these stones.


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## PappaG (Sep 3, 2019)

Everyone is going to give you a different opinion on where to start. For a beginner I always recommend that you go cheap and simple. For cheap and simple, I recommend a set of King Stones - 300 grit, 1000 or 1200 grit, and I would suggest you hold off on a polishing stone until you get use to the 1000 girt.

If you want to spend a little more, get a set of shapton pros in a similar grit range - 320, 1000 and a 2000 would be a really good starting set as well. 

There are no wrong answers here. You are going to get a million opinions, but I suggest you keep researching and keep your first set of stones simple and cheap, because you have no idea what you like/don't like yet.

If you enjoy sharpening, which most of us do, you will probably end up spending a lot more on stones, but there is no need in the beginning.


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## SeattleBen (Sep 3, 2019)

There's tons of people who live and die off the Shapton pros. They're durable and cheap.


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## gman (Sep 3, 2019)

most important thing is practice, practice, practice. only after that will the nuances of different stones start to make a difference.


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## kayman67 (Sep 3, 2019)

First buy really depends on if he wants to start building around most demanding or not.


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## Juan (Sep 3, 2019)

I'm not quite sure I follow? I dont mind getting better stones with a higher learning curve but better possible result. I would be hesitant on damaging the stones as I'm learning to use them. As for budget I'd like to stay under $100 per stone and would likely start with 3.


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## PappaG (Sep 3, 2019)

You have a huge amount of options if you are willing to spend up to $100 per stone. Another great starter set would be a cerax 320, 1000 and Rika 5000.


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## kayman67 (Sep 3, 2019)

Your most demanding scenario would be razors. This is something to consider if you want them to perform with as little effort as possible. And you also want to buy some stones that are as popular as possible to be able to find specific information fast and easy.


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## Juan (Sep 3, 2019)

PappaG said:


> You have a huge amount of options if you are willing to spend up to $100 per stone. Another great starter set would be a cerax 320, 1000 and Rika 5000.



I will look into these


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## Juan (Sep 3, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> Your most demanding scenario would be razors. This is something to consider if you want them to perform with as little effort as possible. And you also want to buy some stones that are as popular as possible to be able to find specific information fast and easy.



Do you have any experience in sharpening razors? Would a synthetic have a difference over natural?


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## Michi (Sep 3, 2019)

To start cheaply, King KDS 1000/6000 is the standard recommendation. That stone works well up to a hardness of HRC 62. (Requires ten minutes of soaking.)

If you want something fancier, Suehiro Cerax 1000 and Suehiro Rika 5000 are great, but also require soaking for ten minutes. They can handle any hardness, and provide very good feel/feedback.

Shapton Pro 1000 and 5000 are great, too, and are splash and go (don't require soaking). They also handle any hardness. The feel isn't quite as nice as with the Suehiro stones (but not bad, by any means).

A 320 stone is necessary only if you have chips that you need to repair, or if you have _extremely_ dull knives. If you do, chances are that you'll use the 320 stone only once and never again. For normal use and re-sharpening, a 1000 stone and a finishing stone in the 3000–6000 range are all you need.


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## Juan (Sep 3, 2019)

Michi said:


> To start cheaply, King KDS 1000/6000 is the standard recommendation. That stone works well up to a hardness of HRC 62. (Requires ten minutes of soaking.)
> 
> If you want something fancier, Suehiro Cerax 1000 and Suehiro Rika 5000 are great, but also require soaking for ten minutes. They can handle any hardness, and provide very good feel/feedback.
> 
> ...



Thank you Michi, 

The use case of a 320 for me is there, alot of the old razors I've passed on recently had chips or worn unevenly but could be repaired. Also I will admit my kitchen knives have some small damage and the set my wife and kid use could use some attention.


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## kayman67 (Sep 3, 2019)

Juan said:


> Do you have any experience in sharpening razors? Would a synthetic have a difference over natural?



Yes. I have/had pretty much all the popular series and some extras, synthetics and naturals. 
It really depends on what natural you already have. And the way you go about sharpening razors. 
The synthetics have a good crowd in their corner. But even natural enthusiasts would rather use a synthetic for some parts (repairs, bevel set, pre finish progression).
Then again, if you finish everything on a strop progression with abrasives, the stones only need to be adequate and you might work a bit more to overcome this, but doable.


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## kayman67 (Sep 3, 2019)

Juan said:


> Thank you Michi,
> 
> The use case of a 320 for me is there, alot of the old razors I've passed on recently had chips or worn unevenly but could be repaired. Also I will admit my kitchen knives have some small damage and the set my wife and kid use could use some attention.



For razors you really have to consider what needs to be done and how a particular stone will do that. Grit alone is not enough to determine how it will perform. For example, while Chosera 1000 is great for razors, Shapton Pro 1000 is a really poor choice by comparison. In fact they can't compare. I would say it might not even qualify as adequate. 

This is why razors were the more demanding scenario and I started picking stones considering them first.


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## Knife2meatu (Sep 3, 2019)

Michi said:


> King KDS 1000/6000 is the standard recommendation. That stone works well up to a hardness of HRC 62.



This seems dubious to me, based on both theory and experience.

To make sure, before posting this I grabbed a my only blue steel cored knife -- not sure if blue 1 or 2, I think 1 -- cut off the apex with a single swipe on my permasoaked King 1k/6k -- ultra light pressure -- after a single knifebreading swipe there was a visible flat on the edge and of course was instantly rendered unable to either push cut or cleanly slice newsprint. I purposefully used only the 6k side, permasoaked mind you, and promptly reground the edge bevel and got it back to sharp in a couple of minutes.

Just to make extra sure, I re-checked the hardness with a Tsubosan 65 HRC test file and the calibrated file skates on the core steel. So let's say 65 HRC, give or take.

Do with that information what you will.


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## inferno (Sep 4, 2019)

flattening stone; atoma
c: naniwa pro 800/1k/glass1k/shap pro 2k
m: glass 3k/4k
f: glass 8k hc/glass 10k hr/pro 12k/naniwa ss 12k

personally i would go pro800 or glass1k, then 3k, then ss 12k.


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## Michi (Sep 4, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> Just to make extra sure, I re-checked the hardness with a Tsubosan 65 HRC test file and the calibrated file skates on the core steel. So let's say 65 HRC, give or take.


Thanks for that check. I've been relying on recommendations I read in various places to avoid the King KDS at > 62 HRC. If it holds up to something at HRC 65, that's even better, and I stand corrected!

Do you know whether the 1000 side will handle something as hard as HRC 65 as well? I remember someone mentioning that the 1000 side dishes out too quickly on hard steels.


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## Knife2meatu (Sep 4, 2019)

@Michi : The 1k side works very nicely on the same knife, I find. The hard core steel doesn't cause fast wear; quite the contrary: it's the soft cladding which raises mud very fast. Nice, dark, even, easy contrast. In either case, it's been my experience that the Cerax is pretty close to the King, as wear rate goes.

6k side actually loads quite a lot when sharpening just the hard core steel -- nothing a slurry doesn't solve -- acts a lot like a Super Stone, come to think of it. Feedback is very nice indeed. Yields a higher polish on hard steel than on other things I rub across it. I think this may be true in general: higher hardness results in higher polish, from a given stone.

I would say Cerax and 5k Suehiro "rika" definitely perform better with stainless steel, however.

I think it is alloy and carbide content, and abrasion resistance, more so than just high HRC, which give the King a hard time.


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## kayman67 (Sep 4, 2019)

Michi said:


> Thanks for that check. I've been relying on recommendations I read in various places to avoid the King KDS at > 62 HRC. If it holds up to something at HRC 65, that's even better, and I stand corrected!
> 
> Do you know whether the 1000 side will handle something as hard as HRC 65 as well? I remember someone mentioning that the 1000 side dishes out too quickly on hard steels.



HRC doesn't tell the story that well. Let's just say that CPM REX 121 is worlds apart harder to sharpen compared to something like ZDP 189, same HRC. 
King can cut even very demanding alloys, probably one of the very few that would, but it will be a slow process.


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## inferno (Sep 4, 2019)

Michi said:


> Thanks for that check. I've been relying on recommendations I read in various places to avoid the King KDS at > 62 HRC. If it holds up to something at HRC 65, that's even better, and I stand corrected!
> 
> Do you know whether the 1000 side will handle something as hard as HRC 65 as well? I remember someone mentioning that the 1000 side dishes out too quickly on hard steels.



the hrc doesn't really mean anything. aluminum oxide and silicon carbide that is used in pretty much all stones are much much harder than the steel it abrades. 

what it is not though, is; much harder than the carbides used in high alloyed stainless/tool/hss/powder steel.

These are vanadium, tungsten, niobium, molybdenum carbides and so on. even some types of chromium carbides are very very close in hardness to aluminum oxide. 

when the vanadium/tungsten content goes above lets say 2-3% or so and the steel has a high carbon content. then it becomes very hard for most crap stones to abrade.

and then its mostly about the shape of the actual abrasives inside the stones. some are shaped like microscopic discs or cones or wedges or whatever, and some are just "round balls" ok maybe 12-20 sided. and a round ball is not gonna abrade anything really well. this is what you pay for with high grade stones. actual engineering.


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## Michi (Sep 5, 2019)

inferno said:


> and then its mostly about the shape of the actual abrasives inside the stones


Thank you for the explanation! I live and learn…


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## Josh Hiett (Sep 5, 2019)

Atoma 400 diamond plate to start. You can grind out chips and also use it to flatten other stones as they wear, which is quite important. So that’s two birds with one stone I’m a big fan of the shapton pros, 1500 would be where I would go after the atoma, and you can use it to set bevels on your razors, that’s what I use. From here, for kitchen knives, you could just strop with a leather paddle with some green chrome and cut toilet paper all day. For the razors a Belgian coticule is a no fus way to finish. All these stones are like 50$usd and they work especially just starting out sharpening


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## ian (Sep 5, 2019)

Juan said:


> I'm not quite sure I follow? I dont mind getting better stones with a higher learning curve but better possible result. I would be hesitant on damaging the stones as I'm learning to use them. As for budget I'd like to stay under $100 per stone and would likely start with 3.



Don’t worry about damaging the stones, unless you plan to drop them. It’s pretty hard to screw up a stone as long as you follow the care instructions. (E.g. if someone says “don’t immerse in water”, believe them, and if they say “dry the stone slowly wrapped in a wet towel”, do that.)


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## Knife2meatu (Sep 5, 2019)

I remember when I first got my first King combination and it would bum me out whenever I gouged or snowplowed the stone.

I now regard each such little scar as another lesson in keeping a consistent angle and controlling pressure.


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## PappaG (Sep 5, 2019)

Yeah that King 6000 is easy to gouge if you are not careful as a beginner.


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## Knife2meatu (Sep 5, 2019)

PappaG said:


> Yeah that King 6000 is easy to gouge if you are not careful as a beginner.



Indeed. But now that I don't gouge or snowplow anymore, I think it's a very nice stone. In fact, I probably prefer it over the Arashiyama 6k and Shapton 5k -- for knives anyway; plane irons and chisels I'd probably go with the Shapton.


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## ian (Sep 5, 2019)

Note to OP: if you gouge or snowplow your stone as discussed above, you can fix it no problem when you flatten it. And most of the time, you don't even need to bother. These are not big issues.


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## Migraine (Sep 5, 2019)

I started with a King 1000/6000 then upgraded to a Shapton Glass 320, JNS 1000 and JNS 6000. Have since added a couple of naturals (an aizu and a finisher) out of want rather than need. It's a set I'm extremely happy with.

I still sharpen my mum's knife on the King when I go over there and it's a perfectly good stone, but if you know you want to sharpen and you have the kind of budget you do I'd skip the 'cheap stone' starter step.

I wouldn't worry about damaging nice stones when you start sharpening. Unless you're doing something really wild I can't see how you'd cause any significant problems.


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## kayman67 (Sep 5, 2019)

Josh Hiett said:


> Atoma 400 diamond plate to start. You can grind out chips and also use it to flatten other stones as they wear, which is quite important. So that’s two birds with one stone I’m a big fan of the shapton pros, 1500 would be where I would go after the atoma, and you can use it to set bevels on your razors, that’s what I use. From here, for kitchen knives, you could just strop with a leather paddle with some green chrome and cut toilet paper all day. For the razors a Belgian coticule is a no fus way to finish. All these stones are like 50$usd and they work especially just starting out sharpening



You, sir, might be the first person I (kinda) know saying any coticule will be pretty much ridiculous easy to use.


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## inferno (Sep 5, 2019)

Michi said:


> Thank you for the explanation! I live and learn…



here is a chart of hardness for different carbides in steel and also SiC and Al-Ox there on the bottom. CBN and diamond and boron carbide will come in at about 5-10k on this hardness scale.
Martensite=hardened steel







from larrins site.


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## Nemo (Sep 5, 2019)

Is there evidence that very hard abrasives (diamond, cbn) will cut hard carbides or is this just assumed?

It would make sense to me if this did occur as diamond loaded stropping does seem to improve sharpness in highly alloyed steels. Having said that, in science, it's case of "experimental data or it didn't happen".


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## inferno (Sep 5, 2019)

I'd say its unlikely that any carbides are being cut. But I guess it could theoretically happen. The carbides always reside in the grain boundaries between the grains. Secondly they are very small,
and thirdly the matrix that surrounds them and keeps them in place is comparatively soft and weak. 

What I think is happening is that the steel around the carbides gets abraded away since its so soft and then there is nothing keeping that carbide in place and it gets dislodged with the rest of the steel. But I have a feeling it will not leave any kind of "hole" just because it gets dislodged.

you can see micrographs here 
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/10/01/super-steels-vs-regular-knife-steels/

Stropping on diamonds and cbn may very well improve improve sharpness. But it could be so that you could have used any other stropping compund (like alox) and you would have gotten the same sharpness but it just would have taken longer to get there. 

If you look at alox in the chart you see it ranges from 1500-2k hv on that scale and chrominum carbide from 13-1700-ish so in theory if you have the softest alox and the hardest CrC then there would theoretically not be possible to sharpen that steel right. But you can still sharpen it somehow. The martensite matrix is softer for once. I feel its mostly a matter of time/pressure and so on. Sooner or later you will get it sharper.

Also you can strop even 65hrc knives on a pair of jeans/cardboard/leather. how does that work?
Coticules contain the garnet abrasives and those are supposedly softer than alox, yet you can still sharpen almost anything on them. They are just very slow with high carbide steel.

I'd say if it works, keep doing it! Easy as that.

I have always heard d2 family steel is too coarse to put a "good edge" on. Yet I managed to put a 12k (shappro) edge on mine and it got so sharp it felt dangerous. If it works it works.


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## Juan (Sep 6, 2019)

wow, loads of great information. thank you everyone, I have been reading all the comments while at work (IT life has been rough these last couple of weeks) anyhow after some homework and conversation, I've narrowed down my focus to the followings stones:
Atoma 140x, Beston 500x, Bester 1200x, Suehiro Rika 5k finishing on felt with diamond spray this should cover my knives as for the razors I will continue from the 5k to a shapton pro 8k then 10k shapton glass finished with chromium oxide on leather. this is how my razors were sharpened before and I loved how they performed. 

I just got the kids hospital bill for his surgery and wanted to pay it ASAP so I used my stone stash for it, I think its good anyway because it will give me more time to shop and find the best prices, read and watch more content. i will also add everyone that's commented so far, you guys rock. so much good information and support and not one "go google search it you noob" lol. i love it, it makes me feel confident in asking for support when im stuck


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## SeattleBen (Sep 6, 2019)

Hope your kid recovers quickly.


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 7, 2019)

+1 on [emoji121]️


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## inferno (Sep 7, 2019)

Nemo said:


> Is there evidence that very hard abrasives (diamond, cbn) will cut hard carbides or is this just assumed?
> 
> It would make sense to me if this did occur as diamond loaded stropping does seem to improve sharpness in highly alloyed steels. Having said that, in science, it's case of "experimental data or it didn't happen".



i found some more info on this. it seems like even soft alox will abrade the hard V carbides in s30v for example.
both these 2 below was sharpened/stropped on alox.
read todds comments. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/carbides-and-cutting-edges.1309485/page-3











also found another thread https://bladeforums.com/threads/high-vanadium-carbide-tear-out-questions.1626135/
where everybody swears only a diamond progression on stones/pastes will create a "durable edge" on high V steels. Since only diamond is able to "cut the carbides" otherwise they are being "torn out". i think its BS though.

just look here https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/03/01/the-diamond-plate-progression/ here you can see that the dmt 325 plate created a sharper result than all the other finer plates. so...

also check out "the pasted strop" SEM micrographs. no 3/4 is with different diamond pastes.
https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/02/09/the-pasted-strop-part-1/
https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/02/22/the-pasted-strop-part-2/
https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/03/31/the-pasted-strop-part-3/
https://scienceofsharp.com/2016/05/29/the-pasted-strop-part-4/

this one was interesting too. https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/10/20/sharpening-with-the-king-1k6k-combination-stone/

so much good info here https://scienceofsharp.com/


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## inferno (Sep 7, 2019)

Juan said:


> Atoma 140x, Beston 500x, Bester 1200x, Suehiro Rika 5k finishing on felt with diamond spray this should cover my knives as for the razors I will continue from the 5k to a shapton pro 8k then 10k shapton glass finished with chromium oxide on leather. this is how my razors were sharpened before and I loved how they performed.



you can probably skip the shapton 8k and 10k after the 5k, and instead only get the pro 12k. its fast enough for that. naniwa SS12k is also an alternative. a very good one. both the 12ks are kinda inexpensive comparatively.

many people in the razor community gets hung up on a progression. like 1-2-4-8-finisher-natural finisher. but to be honest you only really need a 1-2k, a mid grit 4-6k, and a finisher like the 12k. done. you could do it all on a 1k and 12k too it just takes a bit longer.

One thing i think is important for razors is that the stones release as little abrasive as possible (so they stay flat as long as possible), dont need soaking due to eventual warping/swelling etc. but thats just me.


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## kayman67 (Sep 7, 2019)

If he's comfortable with one progression, changing it might not work. Not that the results won't be OK, it's just perception. 
This being said, I think from 5k to Glass HC 8k and then just the usual finish, would work just like it does now. Even Pro 8k is adequate, but requires more work after and I guess this is why that 10k feels at home in the progression. It makes everything easier.

Bester 1200 might be not as expected, but maybe this was researched already.

As a side note, there is a huge debate around carbides. People do test things as good as they can and try to give (definitive) answers based on what happens.


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## kayman67 (Sep 7, 2019)

Juan said:


> wow, loads of great information. thank you everyone, I have been reading all the comments while at work (IT life has been rough these last couple of weeks) anyhow after some homework and conversation, I've narrowed down my focus to the followings stones:
> Atoma 140x, Beston 500x, Bester 1200x, Suehiro Rika 5k finishing on felt with diamond spray this should cover my knives as for the razors I will continue from the 5k to a shapton pro 8k then 10k shapton glass finished with chromium oxide on leather. this is how my razors were sharpened before and I loved how they performed.
> 
> I just got the kids hospital bill for his surgery and wanted to pay it ASAP so I used my stone stash for it, I think its good anyway because it will give me more time to shop and find the best prices, read and watch more content. i will also add everyone that's commented so far, you guys rock. so much good information and support and not one "go google search it you noob" lol. i love it, it makes me feel confident in asking for support when im stuck



I'm sorry you had trouble . I hope all is well!


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## inferno (Sep 7, 2019)

kayman67 said:


> If he's comfortable with one progression, changing it might not work. Not that the results won't be OK, it's just perception.
> This being said, I think from 5k to Glass HC 8k and then just the usual finish, would work just like it does now. Even Pro 8k is adequate, but requires more work after and I guess this is why that 10k feels at home in the progression. It makes everything easier.
> 
> Bester 1200 might be not as expected, but maybe this was researched already.
> ...



yeah i guess what i meant was; one needs a lot fewer stones than one might initially think to get the job done. I have taken knives straight off the shappro 1k to the 12k. no problem at all really.

if i had 0 stones and wanted a working kit for both knives and razors on a budget i would not resort to more cheaper stones, i would resort to fewer quality stones. but thats just me.

i mean_ Atoma 140x, Beston 500x, Bester 1200x, Suehiro Rika 5k, shapton pro 8k, 10k shapton glass_
thats 6 stones.

atoma140 85€
beston 500 46$ (dollars)
bester 1200 48€
rika 5k 55€
pro8k 79€
glass 10k 120€

total: 433€

and all those stones will do exactly the same as these below for half the price, just a little slower.

glass 500 DoubleThick 65€
glass 3k/4k 60/55€
pro12k 85€
1 pack A4 size sandpaper p80-p180 10€
(optional: eze-lap250 plate 65€)

total: 210€


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## kayman67 (Sep 7, 2019)

I used to do 1-10k jumps alot. 
If it works for something, why not. I'm not set in stone


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## inferno (Sep 7, 2019)

i did the 1-12k (both shappro) on some blue 2 knife i think. just to see if it would work. and it did. i was worried i had to spend hours on it but it took me like 3-5 minutes longer than if i would have had intermediates. i think its because the shappro 12k is actually a very aggressive and fast stone (the 8k is too) for its grit.


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## inferno (Sep 7, 2019)

remember like 100 years ago the barbers only had one single stone to do everything. cotis/eschers/swatys and so on. and it worked just fine. I'm willing to bet you actually only need a 12k for razors. the rest is just luxury.


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## kayman67 (Sep 7, 2019)

It's a bit of many things. And it's a good thing we have them.


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## Juan (Sep 8, 2019)

SeattleBen said:


> Hope your kid recovers quickly.


thanks, everything is well. a few years ago he fell while dog sitting for our neighbors and got a cut in his ear, over time it formed a keloid which was growing up until this past year. with him starting high school he wanted it removed if possible before the start of the school year. needless to say, he is doing well and will have minimal scarring but the cost of the surgery was not covered by the insurance company because it was deemed cosmetic.


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## Juan (Sep 8, 2019)

inferno said:


> i did the 1-12k (both shappro) on some blue 2 knife i think. just to see if it would work. and it did. i was worried i had to spend hours on it but it took me like 3-5 minutes longer than if i would have had intermediates. i think its because the shappro 12k is actually a very aggressive and fast stone (the 8k is too) for its grit.


 
i am ok with this approach of skipping the 8k for now, should i feel the need for it later i can always get one then.


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## MrHiggins (Sep 8, 2019)

Juan said:


> thanks, everything is well. a few years ago he fell while dog sitting for our neighbors and got a cut in his ear, over time it formed a keloid which was growing up until this past year. with him starting high school he wanted it removed if possible before the start of the school year. needless to say, he is doing well and will have minimal scarring but the cost of the surgery was not covered by the insurance company because it was deemed cosmetic.


You did it wrong. You shoulda spent your money on great stones, sharpened up a knife (270 gyuto, preferably), and taken it to your kid's ear instead of letting some "sergeon" get all the glory. It coulda been win-win, but you botched it. Too bad.


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## Juan (Sep 9, 2019)

MrHiggins said:


> You did it wrong. You shoulda spent your money on great stones, sharpened up a knife (270 gyuto, preferably), and taken it to your kid's ear instead of letting some "sergeon" get all the glory. It coulda been win-win, but you botched it. Too bad.



you know what................you're absolutely right lol. hindsight is always 20/20 what was i thinking


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## kayman67 (Sep 10, 2019)

inferno said:


> just look here https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/03/01/the-diamond-plate-progression/ here you can see that the dmt 325 plate created a sharper result than all the other finer plates. so...



This bugged me some. 
I have worked with CPM REX 121 HRC 69. This would be the most demanding scenario I guess. And even stones with some good rep for problematic alloys did very little, if anything. Getting a bevel? I was naive enough even to go ahead and try. But diamond plates did, albeit slow themselves. And CBN refined those edges quote nicely to the point of very easy to cut wet/dry paper towels and durable edges. And the progression improvement was there. These edges were able to hold for a really really long time.


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