# Damasteel?



## F-Flash (Aug 21, 2017)

So it has the looks and high price. But what about everything else? They market it as best stainless steel in the World. Any experience and insight is welcome. Edge retention, sharpenability, toughness etc, you know the drill.


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## StonedEdge (Aug 21, 2017)

I assume it all depends on how it's treated and forged. I too however would love to know the deal behind Damasteel


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## tgfencer (Aug 21, 2017)

Maybe some of our forum makers who use it can give us their viewpoint:


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## RDalman (Aug 21, 2017)

Damasteel have been around for a long time actually. The steel composition and consistency (welds/general production) is very good. It's a similar steel to cpm154 or ats34. Very distinct looks to it.


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## cheflivengood (Aug 21, 2017)

It is the closest to carbon steel as I have ever used; it sharpens extremely easily, holds a very good edge for a long long time, is very stain resistant even for "stainless" and from the makers I have talked to they say it is very nice to polish for finishing purposes.


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## cheflivengood (Aug 21, 2017)

Damasteel starts with a gas atomization steel making process. Molten steel is forced through a nozzle and aerosolized. The resulting steel powders are created in a perfectly spherical shape with a high level of cleanliness and homogenous distribution of carbides (provide the cutting capabilities). The powders are then collected in a canister, which is sealed, compacted, and bonded (densified) by a process called Hot Isostatic Pressing (HIP). After the HIP process, the size of the steel material is reduced by roughly 30%. There are no welds in the steel making it structurally an extremely strong steel.

Afterwards, the capsule undergoes forging, texturing rolling in a specific way to obtain various patterns. 

A benefit of the particle metal process, the damasteel includes less impurities and will contain far less inclusions than traditional damascus steel. Damasteel also carries the properties of the particle steel alloys RWL 34 and PMC27 steel. RWL 34 is a Swedish-made knife steel named after legendary knife maker Robert 'Bob' Loveless and is most similar to CPM 154 and chemically similar to ATS 34. RWL 34 steel is made by the Damasteel company. When etched, the RWL 34 is the lighter color pattern in the damascus. The second steel in damasteel is PMC27 stainless steel alloy. PMC27 is also made in Sweden. When etched is the darker pattern bands of the damascus. Both of these composite steels are manufactured using the particle metal (PM) process and provide increased toughness and edge retention compared to conventionally made steels.


From a Knifeart.com write up.


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## malexthekid (Aug 21, 2017)

Duel post


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## malexthekid (Aug 21, 2017)

cheflivengood said:


> Damasteel starts with a gas atomization steel making process. Molten steel is forced through a nozzle and aerosolized. The resulting steel powders are created in a perfectly spherical shape with a high level of cleanliness and homogenous distribution of carbides (provide the cutting capabilities). The powders are then collected in a canister, which is sealed, compacted, and bonded (densified) by a process called Hot Isostatic Pressing (HIP). After the HIP process, the size of the steel material is reduced by roughly 30%. There are no welds in the steel making it structurally an extremely strong steel.
> 
> Afterwards, the capsule undergoes forging, texturing rolling in a specific way to obtain various patterns.
> 
> ...


All I can say is they make some damn sexy patterns that polish super nice.

And your oatley damasteel is what pushed me over the edge to impulse buy one of his honyakis &#128512;


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## RDalman (Aug 22, 2017)

I don't agree with it being close to carbon in ease of sharpening. It's not a high alloy like elmax or such that you really want diamonds with, regular stones will work. But it is slower than carbon steels, and aeb-l.


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## natto (Aug 22, 2017)

The steels:

http://www.damasteel.se/our-steel/


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## cheflivengood (Aug 22, 2017)

RDalman said:


> I don't agree with it being close to carbon in ease of sharpening. It's not a high alloy like elmax or such that you really want diamonds with, regular stones will work. But it is slower than carbon steels, and aeb-l.



I'm sure i'll agree with you once mine gets more fat behind the edge, but all I have had to do is stropping motion to make burrs, It will be awhile before I have to thin and re polish.


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## cheflivengood (Aug 22, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> All I can say is they make some damn sexy patterns that polish super nice.
> 
> And your oatley damasteel is what pushed me over the edge to impulse buy one of his honyakis &#128512;



Im sure you are happy with it!


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## Chef Doom (Aug 24, 2017)

I will not be fooled again by patterned "damascus" stainless steel.


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## Eloh (Aug 24, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> I will not be fooled again by patterned "damascus" stainless steel.


fooled?


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## cheflivengood (Aug 24, 2017)

Eloh said:


> fooled?



+1


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## Chef Doom (Aug 24, 2017)

Suckered by the glits and glamour. I want my knives to cut, my watches to tell time, and my computer viruses to cause simple destruction. All the extra fancy ohhhs and ahhs are simply methods to bleed your wallet to the point where it needs a %20 APR transfussion just to survive. 

I once saw two guys at a knife show talk an hour about the beauty and workmanship of a custom handle attached to a knife that probably didnt cut any better than a kbar.


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## cheflivengood (Aug 24, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Suckered by the glits and glamour. I want my knives to cut, my watches to tell time, and my computer viruses to cause simple destruction. All the extra fancy ohhhs and ahhs are simply methods to bleed your wallet to the point where it needs a %20 APR transfussion just to survive.
> 
> I once saw two guys at a knife show talk an hour about the beauty and workmanship of a custom handle attached to a knife that probably didn't cut any better than a kbar.



This is similar to arguing form/function of a Camery vs Ferrari. I'll take the later and all the bs that comes with it.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 24, 2017)

Not so. A Ferrari will beat a Camry in fun and speed but tell me which would you rather put a baby seat and a stroller in? 

Not to mention the 3rd time you have to make that weekend 6 to 8 hour road trip that Camry will start to look pretty good.


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## StonedEdge (Aug 24, 2017)

Not to mention when winter rolls around and/or you need new parts the Camry will seem like a Godsend


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## Rob_Sutherland (Aug 24, 2017)

StonedEdge said:


> Not to mention when winter rolls around and/or you need new parts the Camry will seem like a Godsend



I"d be quite happy to drive around with my two baby/booster seats in the back of a four wheel drive Ferrari FF or GTC4Lusso thank you very much. Even (actually especially) for those 6-8 hour trips.


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## StonedEdge (Aug 24, 2017)

Rob_Sutherland said:


> I"d be quite happy to drive around with my two baby/booster seats in the back of a four wheel drive Ferrari FF or GTC4Lusso thank you very much. Even (actually especially) for those 6-8 hour trips.


That's well and fine for Toronto winters (if you can even call them that)

I know what you mean about the FF, there's a black on black one parked in my building, I have to stare at it every time I go to get in my POS Jetta.... Something about that roof line! (And that V-12 lol)


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## cheflivengood (Aug 24, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Not so. A Ferrari will beat a Camry in fun and speed but tell me which would you rather put a baby seat and a stroller in?
> 
> Not to mention the 3rd time you have to make that weekend 6 to 8 hour road trip that Camry will start to look pretty good.



See, what your saying is that HOW you get to the destination is just as important as just getting there. If the end product is all that matters, as in tasty food, this forum wouldn't exist. There is a correlation between F&F/performance and damascus, and I am speaking mostly in regards to custom makers who either make their own steel or source high quality like damasteel or sg2. Id much rather support mareko or Ian than a large production facility. There are lines like the VG10 Shuns or takayuki that I totally agree with you, but you can definitely feel the passion and dedication when holding a custom one of a kind patterned steel knife, which for me gives me pride and motivation to work harder and longer because I have a personal connection with the knife and knife maker, make sense?


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## Matus (Aug 24, 2017)

I have made only one little knife from Damasteel and found it very easy to work with. Factors easier than a Niolox. Sharpening was super easy at HRC60, but I can not comment on the edge holding.


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## cheflivengood (Aug 24, 2017)

StonedEdge said:


> Not to mention when winter rolls around and/or you need new parts the Camry will seem like a Godsend



Well if you can afford a ferrari then the cost of the car compared to your salary should be the same as someones who drives a camry. And of course you keep the ferrari at your california estate, and the rolls at the new york estate.


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## natto (Aug 24, 2017)

Damasteel offers three martensitic steels, which do we discuss? Or is only one of them used?


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## F-Flash (Aug 24, 2017)

The one people makes knives out of.


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## Matus (Aug 24, 2017)

natto said:


> Damasteel offers three martensitic steels, which do we discuss? Or is only one of them used?



*This* is the Damasteel that is relevant in this discussion.


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## Beau Nidle (Aug 24, 2017)

I've used it twice, once on a chefs knive, the other on a hunting/skinning knife. It's nice to work with and holds an edge extremely well. The person I gave the hunting knife to has used it so far on 3 deer, 6 partridge and 1 pheasant without needing any edge touch up. I'm not really a hunter so I don't know if that's amazing or not but he seemed impressed.


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## TheCaptain (Aug 24, 2017)

Totally envious of anyone who has access to game.


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## Dave Martell (Aug 24, 2017)

I'd like to work with this stuff sometime, just need to find the right patron.


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## malexthekid (Aug 24, 2017)

Dave Martell said:


> I'd like to work with this stuff sometime, just need to find the right patron.


Ohhh get effed Dave. NO. JUST NO ok. [emoji48] [emoji48] [emoji38] [emoji1] .


I can't wait to see that result.


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## Dave Martell (Aug 24, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Ohhh get effed Dave. NO. JUST NO ok. [emoji48] [emoji48] [emoji38] [emoji1] .
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see that result.




:muahaha:


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## Marcelo Amaral (Aug 24, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Not so. A Ferrari will beat a Camry in fun and speed but tell me which would you rather put a baby seat and a stroller in?
> 
> Not to mention the 3rd time you have to make that weekend 6 to 8 hour road trip that Camry will start to look pretty good.



Are there Ferrari owners that don't own several cars?


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## Nemo (Aug 24, 2017)

I think that the applicabilty of the Toyota - Ferrari analogy has been stretched just a little. Cars are, in general, not knives.


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## Noodle Soup (Aug 24, 2017)

I think I mentioned it before on this forum but I made a hunting knife out of Damasteel in a German knifemaking class a few years ago. It might be the fact my heat treat wasn't all that knowledgeable but the edge holding is only OK, nothing really remarkable.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 24, 2017)

I dont know much about damasteel as for as their monosteel goes but anybody that says they get performance gains or improved cutting with damascus patterns on stainless or semi-stainless is drinking some serious koolaid


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## Chef Doom (Aug 24, 2017)

Nemo said:


> I think that the applicabilty of the Toyota - Ferrari analogy has been stretched just a little. Cars are, in general, not knives.


Not to mention that they both serve different purposes and different clientel. A damascus pattern versus non-damascus is like a gold plated watch. That gold plating costs a few extra dollars but it wont change how accurate it keeps time.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 24, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> Are there Ferrari owners that don't own several cars?


Probably, people make dumb decisions all the time.


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## malexthekid (Aug 24, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Not to mention that they both serve different purposes and different clientel. A damascus pattern versus non-damascus is like a gold plated watch. That gold plating costs a few extra dollars but it wont change how accurate it keeps time.


By that token why buy anything more than a cutco knife? It'll get the job done.


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## malexthekid (Aug 24, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> I dont know much about damasteel as for as their monosteel goes but anybody that says they get performance gains or improved cutting with damascus patterns on stainless or semi-stainless is drinking some serious koolaid


So says you. Though their is real theory (and anecdotal evidence) to the fact that solid damascus blades can give additional performance in some circumstances as the different metals will wear at slightly different rates giving micro serrations for the close patterns...

Also it goes that they are also the more premium knives of most makers so they also contain their best grinds etc.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 24, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> I dont know much about damasteel as for as their monosteel goes but anybody that says they get performance gains or improved cutting with damascus patterns on stainless or semi-stainless is drinking some serious koolaid



In reply, three words: Devin Thomas damascus. 

Cheers!


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> By that token why buy anything more than a cutco knife? It'll get the job done.


I guarantee if cutco put damascus patterns on a new line of knives they would sell them for three times the price and there would people on this forum that would buy them if nothing else to compare them with the original line even though they would be using the same steel.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> So says you. Though their is real theory (and anecdotal evidence) to the fact that solid damascus blades can give additional performance in some circumstances as the different metals will wear at slightly different rates giving micro serrations for the close patterns...



It's this very thinking that has me making plans on developing a line of supplements that I will be selling in a couple of years that will help on curing most diseases and illnesses. What do you think of the name Pla-Cebos?


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Also it goes that they are also the more premium knives of most makers so they also contain their best grinds etc.



I agree AND you just made my point that the performance gains you get is mainly if not soley from the maker putting more effort and detail into the product do to higher perceived value and potential profit margins and nothing to do with the actual damascus pattern in itself.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> In reply, three words: Devin Thomas damascus.
> 
> Cheers!


Your mic drop moment was weaker than in the past. We can either blame this on alcohol, fatigue, or being distracted by a tight dress walking by.

Then again I have never used a DT although it is on my wish list.


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## malexthekid (Aug 25, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> I agree AND you just made my point that the performance gains you get is mainly if not soley from the maker putting more effort and detail into the product do to higher perceived value and potential profit margins and nothing to do with the actual damascus pattern in itself.


I fail to see any point you have made. But then again I don't expect our resident troll to make sense.

But I'll bite cause it's fun... firstly differential wear is fact. Or do you dispute hardness and its effect/purpose and would agree that you wasted all your money and should have just bought cutcos?

I also would guess that the profit margin on damascus is in fact a lot less given the effort required to forge it... but you know that doesn't align with your point so I will just not bother with that argument.

And your Pla-Cebo will be seen for what it is... fake news nonsense drink... everyone knows the cure for all illness lies with the moon dust drinks of Gwenyth


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## Beau Nidle (Aug 25, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> I dont know much about damasteel as for as their monosteel goes but anybody that says they get performance gains or improved cutting with damascus patterns on stainless or semi-stainless is drinking some serious koolaid



You only list stainless and semi-stainless damascus here, did you leave carbon damascus out by accident, or do you believe that carbon damascus does improve cutting performance?


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## rick alen (Aug 25, 2017)

Last I looked not even DT was claiming a definite performance gain for layered steel, but thought maybe his aeb-l damascus might work a little better. Vague enough. Some knife makers would make claims for a while, that would suddenly disappear and they go back to mono-steel edges.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 25, 2017)

rick alen said:


> Last I looked not even DT was claiming a definite performance gain for layered steel, but thought maybe his aeb-l damascus might work a little better. Vague enough. Some knife makers would make claims for a while, that would suddenly disappear and they go back to mono-steel edges.



I've owned two of Devin's stainless damascus blades, and in my experience the performance gain is there, though it is minimal. I'm speaking from a home cook's standpoint, and it's probable that a pro might not ever notice it.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

Beau Nidle said:


> You only list stainless and semi-stainless damascus here, did you leave carbon damascus out by accident, or do you believe that carbon damascus does improve cutting performance?


Because you persistent snobs have infected me with your shigafusa love virus and now I want a hard to find kitaeji gyuto in 240 even though I know it will cut just as good as a kasumi finish. Yet when I snatch one up on the BST I don't want anyone using this thread as a gotcha moment.

Since you twisted my poor Latin arm, yes I would be willing to bet money that if put side by side the difference between damascus and kasumi would be nonexistant be it stainless, semi, or carbon. Or any other super magic steel for that matter.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 25, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Because you persistent snobs have infected me with your shigafusa love virus and now I want a hard to find kitaeji gyuto in 240 even though I know it will cut just as good as a kasumi finish. Yet when I snatch one up on the BST I don't want anyone using this thread as a gotcha moment.
> 
> Since you twisted my poor Latin arm, yes I would be willing to bet money that if put side by side the difference between damascus and kasumi would be nonexistant be it stainless, semi, or carbon. Or any other super magic steel for that matter.



I see you are conflating damascus san mai with coreless damascus. Two completely different things.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> I fail to see any point you have made. But then again I don't expect our resident troll to make sense.
> 
> But I'll bite cause it's fun... firstly differential wear is fact. Or do you dispute hardness and its effect/purpose and would agree that you wasted all your money and should have just bought cutcos?
> 
> ...


I am not arguing against differential wear. I am saying that any viewd performance difference is in your mind. 

Just because the profit margins on a dimascus are small does not mean it does not have an affect on the craftsman because knife makers can be delusional also. Plus when pride is on the line that alone can cause that extra attention to detail. Which is why people claim performance gains when they spend an extra $400 on a damascus pattern. PRIDE.

How did you know I was planning a line of Moon Drinks? Thief! THIIEEEF!!!


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> I've owned two of Devin's stainless damascus blades, and in my experience the performance gain is there, though it is minimal. I'm speaking from a home cook's standpoint, and it's probable that a pro might not ever notice it.


Did you compare a Devin stainless damascus with a Devin stainless non-patterned blade with both having similar steel?


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> I see you are conflating damascus san mai with coreless damascus. Two completely different things.


No I am not for I see the performance gains in both to be an illusion created to justify the expense. I will admit that coreless damascus takes wore work from the maker and sharpening on the stones is probably a different experience from what I have read but these so called cutting improvements or cutting differences or performance gains are in peoples heads.

If people just admitted that the only reason they paid extra for these things is because they look cool then this would not be an issue. I will not sit back and allow people to pretend that the emporor does not have any clothes on.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 25, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Did you compare a Devin stainless damascus with a Devin stainless non-patterned blade with both having similar steel?



Yes, I did. I compared a coreless damascus in 19C27, AEBL, and 302 to one of Devin's monosteel AEB-L wa-gyutos.


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## Matus (Aug 25, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> I will not sit back and allow people to pretend that the emporor does not have any clothes on.



So are we at your mercy about what we think or wish for?

I for one do not expect Damasteel to perform better than pure RWL34, but man, take it easy. Of course it is mostly about the pattern looking nice. Is there a problem with that?


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## RDalman (Aug 25, 2017)

All about f-f-f-F-flash &#129303;


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## cheflivengood (Aug 25, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> I'm really sorry for my behavior, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and can spend their money as they please.



Thats better.


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## rick alen (Aug 25, 2017)

Rick, did you feel the performance gain was in edge-taking or edge retention, or both?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 25, 2017)

rick alen said:


> Rick, did you feel the performance gain was in edge-taking or edge retention, or both?



Edge retention, or more precisely, "tooth" retention. Edge taking was essentially the same. 

BTW, I view any performance gain as lagniappe. What attracts me is that the maker has showcased his skills in forging the damascus, in much the same way that people value a honyaki blade.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

Matus said:


> So are we at your mercy about what we think or wish for?
> 
> I for one do not expect Damasteel to perform better than pure RWL34, but man, take it easy. Of course it is mostly about the pattern looking nice. Is there a problem with that?


Not at all. I almost bought a honyoki for the cool factor. The cool factor is what reigns in the west.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

cheflivengood said:


> Thats better.


Nobody minces my words and gets away with it. Curse...CURSE! May your kitchen be filled with 21 days of DOOM!


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

Matus said:


> So are we at your mercy about what we think or wish for?



To ask the question is to answer it. Just make sure to bow properly in my presence. Muahahaha


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Yes, I did. I compared a coreless damascus in 19C27, AEBL, and 302 to one of Devin's monosteel AEB-L wa-gyutos.


Im assuming thickness behind the edge was the same and sharpening angle was done on the same stones through the same progression with a similar time span? 

What food and meals were prepared with these knives? Is there video? Photos? Notes? An old forum review I am skipping over? Witnesses I can interview? Police records? Court documents? IRS audit trail? Confessions by the shooter in the grassy knowl?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 25, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> What food and meals were prepared with these knives? Is there video? Photos? Notes? An old forum review I am skipping over? Witnesses I can interview? Police records? Court documents? IRS audit trail? Confessions by the shooter in the grassy knowl?



Various and assorted. No. No. No. Yes, but it's on a need to know basis. None still living. No. No. No. If I told you, I'd have to kill you.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Various and assorted. No. No. No. Yes, but it's on a need to know basis. None still living. No. No. No. If I told you, I'd have to kill you.


This makes you about as credible as your average Press Secretary.

[emoji23]


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 25, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> This makes you about as credible as your average Press Secretary.
> 
> [emoji23]



But still one up on you.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> But still one up on you.


Only cause there is no verification and I have to go by his word and "feelings". Just because I am not allowed to prove that fairies don't exist doesnt mean squat. Lets get those 2 Devin blades on the line and 4 more plus a $1000 minimum buy in with some betting odds and lets see who comes out with a wide grin and a fat wallet.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 25, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Only cause there is no verification and I have to go by his word and "feelings". Just because I am not allowed to prove that fairies don't exist doesnt mean squat. Lets get those 2 Devin blades on the line and 4 more plus a $1000 minimum buy in with some betting odds and lets see who comes out with a wide grin and a fat wallet.



No point in continuing further. I don't care for being called a liar by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 25, 2017)

I never called you a liar. I just said you don't any proof that I can argue with beyond your own recollection. I believe that you felt that your two knives have different experiences but that does not represent the masses of knives available.

Even my own experiences are purely subjective and does not represent the majority. Which is why I am saying lets get a dozen knives and 20 or 30 chefs and put some money down. We need a Damascus vs Kasumi/Cladding face off. I think we could get one of those food channel kitchens and a big audience and find a sexy hostess with big breast to run the odds and collect the bets.

You may not be a liar, but you will be broke when I walk away with your money.


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## malexthekid (Aug 29, 2017)

Can you provide any proof that any of your knives cut better than a $5 Walmart special?

Thought not. Really goes to show your credibility.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 30, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Can you provide any proof that any of your knives cut better than a $5 Walmart special?
> 
> Thought not. Really goes to show your credibility.


Depends on what you are asking me to cut. If you are asking me to whittle some wood I will choose those $5 walmart specials in a heart beat. My knives probably are not the best option for a knife throwing competition. Those brittle tips wont last 2 throws.


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## Matus (Aug 30, 2017)

Any admins around? This thread could use some cleaning. Thank you.


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## DevinT (Aug 30, 2017)

Pattern welded damascus steel is an art by it's self. Originally steels were forged and folded to remove impurities. Smiths then figured out how to manipulate the layers to create pleasing patterns. 

It is possible to mix steels with different properties to increase toughness or wear resistance, others are used to increase the contrast between layers. Using two simple carbon steels will likely not result in any increase in performance. 

Proper forging of any steel will bring an increase in desired properties.

Hoss


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## malexthekid (Aug 30, 2017)

Matus said:


> Any admins around? This thread could use some cleaning. Thank you.


Ohhh come on matus. The thread was over after the first page or two. Now people are having some fun.

This place really sucks when people play the threads must always follow topic line. Stuff evolves.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 30, 2017)

Thanks Hoss for bringing things into perspective despite my unrestrained foolishness.

Now I will be taking 2 damascuse gyutos and I would like them delivered by Labor Day &#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;


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## Matus (Aug 31, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Ohhh come on matus. The thread was over after the first page or two. Now people are having some fun.
> 
> This place really sucks when people play the threads must always follow topic line. Stuff evolves.


Yes, hafl of this thread is off topic and not even fun. Why should snyone looking for an information go through all that gibber gabber before making it to the answer of Devin?


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## malexthekid (Aug 31, 2017)

Matus said:


> Yes, hafl of this thread is off topic and not even fun. Why should snyone looking for an information go through all that gibber gabber before making it to the answer of Devin?


Sorry but if you are going to be the fun police Devin's comment isn't even on topic and should go.

The discussion was damasteel not damascus.


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## Matus (Aug 31, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Sorry but if you are going to be the fun police Devin's comment isn't even on topic and should go.
> 
> The discussion was damasteel not damascus.


Well, I have expressed my opinion, it is up to admins.


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## Chef Doom (Aug 31, 2017)

Since the main offerings by Damasteel that I noticed ARE damascus I wanted to point out that those pretty patterns have nothing to do with performance if that is what the op was looking for.

As far as the actual profile or heat treatment I have never held one and can't comment.


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## cheflivengood (Aug 31, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Since the main offerings by Damasteel that I noticed ARE damascus I wanted to point out that those pretty patterns have nothing to do with performance if that is what the op was looking for.
> 
> As far as the actual profile or heat treatment I have never held one and can't comment.



The Patterns are an afterthought when choosing damasteel for proformance. The particle metallurgy and Hot Isostatic Pressing is what makes damasteel special, giving it its increased performance.


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## RDalman (Aug 31, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> Since the main offerings by Damasteel that I noticed ARE damascus I wanted to point out that those pretty patterns have nothing to do with performance if that is what the op was looking for.
> 
> As far as the actual profile or heat treatment I have never held one and can't comment.



Oi some patterns can be etched into sharp ass saws, how cool it that for tomatoe performance :bigeek:


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## cheflivengood (Aug 31, 2017)

RDalman said:


> Oi some patterns can be etched into sharp ass saws, how cool it that for tomatoe performance :bigeek:



It's actually genius, I think you just cracked the bread knife problem. Flat Bevels for thinning, strop in a micro bevel, deep etch for serration. R&D Dalman GO


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## RDalman (Aug 31, 2017)

or steak knives :hungry:


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## Chef Doom (Aug 31, 2017)

This is innovation that will have everybody here kicking themselves when some random company does this and nobody here gets any credit.

Although you will ruin those beautiful natural stones lol &#128518;&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;


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## RDalman (Sep 1, 2017)

Chef Doom said:


> This is innovation that will have everybody here kicking themselves when some random company does this and nobody here gets any credit.
> 
> Although you will ruin those beautiful natural stones lol &#128518;&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;&#128518;



I actually recently qouted a guy (opening a fancy place) for 50 damasteel steak knives on that idea, but that steel ain't free lol.


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## cheflivengood (Sep 1, 2017)

RDalman said:


> I actually recently qouted a guy (opening a fancy place) for 50 damasteel steak knives on that idea, but that steel ain't free lol.



50?!?! if its a tasting menu place(fancy) that must be a huge place or they are not thinking of how many main courses will be down at once maximum.


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## rick alen (Sep 2, 2017)

Wootz steel, naturally toothy, Rich Ferrur does nice patterns with it.

I have considered having him make a steak knife for me, but I have found a Geshin Kagero petty very good for the task. Great for cutting up the small stuff too. John freaked when I told him its purpose, but I have had no chipping issues using ceramic plates, even on the occasion of hitting the cutting edge instead of just the tip. Still thinking about the wootz though.


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## Chef Doom (Sep 2, 2017)

Hahaha sometimes Japenese knives are tougher than people realize despite the hardness rating.


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## cutler81 (Feb 1, 2018)

rick alen said:


> Wootz steel, naturally toothy, Rich Ferrur does nice patterns with it.
> 
> I have considered having him make a steak knife for me, but I have found a Geshin Kagero petty very good for the task. Great for cutting up the small stuff too. John freaked when I told him its purpose, but I have had no chipping issues using ceramic plates, even on the occasion of hitting the cutting edge instead of just the tip. Still thinking about the wootz though.



That's interesting to me - did you want him (Rich Ferrur) to make a steak knife of crucible wootz? Do you already have any wootz knife which you use for kitchen works?


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## rick alen (Feb 1, 2018)

Sorry, never had anything in wootz, but if having one made Ferrur is certainly a good choice of maker.


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## cutler81 (Feb 5, 2018)

thanks


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## GregF (Mar 2, 2018)

Knives made of damasteel can be very soft, but also can be very well made - hight quality... I had damasteel knives - one was much harder that the second one, it was even able to cut the softer one (as it was made of wood!). Similar situation when it comes to wootz - I am a huge fan of wootz knives and I have several dozens of wootz knives made by various smiths. There was a time I thought that wootz is just the best material and it guarantee the knife will be better than any other made of other steel. But not only material counts, smith's knowledge and experience too. It was basicly confirmed by the test I made with various wootz blades I have.
The results werent reliable, as every knife was different (size, blade shape). Those were my private knives: wootz blades (scandinavian, polish, russians) and Byelorussian wootz-like blade.

Now I am collecting a new pack for another test. This time blades will be identical, to make the test reliable in every way. I will use over a dozen identical knives: made of wootz and the best powder steels.
I cant wait to see how wootz blades will compare with powder steels!


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## cutler81 (Mar 9, 2018)

very interesting... waiting for test results!


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## charlesquik (Mar 9, 2018)

Damascus steel is just the principle of folding the metal multiple time to make a pattern.

You can make damascus steel with low carbon metal as well as high carbon metal.

From what I understand, the steel folding principle was used because they had not the technology back in the day to melt the iron/steel hot enough. So the result had a lot of impurity and so the process of folding would remove the impurity from the steel.


Here is a nice video explaining it.

[video=youtube;LLqZdfcVoV8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLqZdfcVoV8[/video]


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