# Favorite Ginsan gyuto?



## mattador (Aug 15, 2018)

I'm looking at trying some Ginsan-ko and was wondering what is everyone's favorite interpretation of the steel.


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## khashy (Aug 15, 2018)

Sakai Takayuki Ginsan gyuto, no competition, nothing comes close. Dammy and non-dammy are exactly the same btw in terms of profile and grind. I genuinely do not think anyone does ginsan better than Mr.Yamatsuka.


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## JBroida (Aug 15, 2018)

khashy said:


> Sakai Takayuki Ginsan gyuto, no competition, nothing comes close. Dammy and non-dammy are exactly the same btw in terms of profile and grind. I genuinely do not think anyone does ginsan better than Mr.Yamatsuka.



for what its worth, Yamatsuka-san does work for a wide variety of companies... not just sakai takayuki


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## LucasFur (Aug 15, 2018)

I only have a Sukenari Ginsan ... I like it. Thinned the blade though and its really nice. Still prefer R2 as a stainless, fits into the categories of what i find valuable and like more. 
One small gripe i have with Ginsan I *?think?* *?Feel?* its Unit weight is slightly lower than some other steels (PM/HSPS/Tool/Carbon). Maybe because its easier to sharpen it has the feeling of having less density, though its a feeling i dont get with white, but i do with swedish steel/AEB-L ---- Hopefully Jon just says I'm a nutcase.


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## Midsummer (Aug 15, 2018)

khashy said:


> Sakai Takayuki Ginsan gyuto, no competition, nothing comes close. Dammy and non-dammy are exactly the same btw in terms of profile and grind. I genuinely do not think anyone does ginsan better than Mr.Yamatsuka.



I love these Gyutos. They are convex grinds workhorse like. Mr Tosa is the sharpener.

Mr Yamatsuka does a very nice Ginsan for knives and stones that has a different sharpener and wide bevels in place of the convex grind. Syousin sacura.


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## Choppin (Aug 15, 2018)

khashy said:


> Sakai Takayuki Ginsan gyuto, no competition, nothing comes close. Dammy and non-dammy are exactly the same btw in terms of profile and grind. I genuinely do not think anyone does ginsan better than Mr.Yamatsuka.



Where can I find one? Thanks


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## labor of love (Aug 15, 2018)

Midsummer said:


> I love these Gyutos. They are convex grinds workhorse like. Mr Tosa is the sharpener.
> 
> Mr Yamatsuka does a very nice Ginsan for knives and stones that has a different sharpener and wide bevels in place of the convex grind. Syousin sacura.


Yep. I would love to see a restock.


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## Grunt173 (Aug 15, 2018)

Is Ginsan the same thing as Ginsanko ?


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## Barmoley (Aug 15, 2018)

Grunt173 said:


> Is Ginsan the same thing as Ginsanko ?



Yes. Also G3, gingami 3, gin 3, silver 3 sometimes.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Aug 15, 2018)

Gesshin Kagekiyo.


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## Grunt173 (Aug 15, 2018)

Barmoley said:


> Yes. Also G3, gingami 3, gin 3, silver 3 sometimes.


Oh ok,in that case,I most recently bought the En Ginsanko in 210 mm from JKI. I like using it so much that I just ordered the En Ginsanko in 240 mm from them as well.I'll get to see it on Friday.Dog gone nice knife.I haven't had it long enough to speak to anything like edge retention or sharpening. I am still cutting with the out of box edge etc.


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## Barmoley (Aug 15, 2018)

Great. Could you tell us more once you use this and the 240. Jon described it a little, said the tip is really thin. How's the food release, balance, etc. Does the tip feel fragile or just thin?


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## DitmasPork (Aug 15, 2018)

I'd been thinking about the En, seems a very good price. I do like ginsanko, only gyuto I have in that steel is a Tanaka, which is very good.



Grunt173 said:


> Oh ok,in that case,I most recently bought the En Ginsanko in 210 mm from JKI. I like using it so much that I just ordered the En Ginsanko in 240 mm from them as well.I'll get to see it on Friday.Dog gone nice knife.I haven't had it long enough to speak to anything like edge retention or sharpening. I am still cutting with the out of box edge etc.


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## mattador (Aug 15, 2018)

khashy said:


> Sakai Takayuki Ginsan gyuto, no competition, nothing comes close. Dammy and non-dammy are exactly the same btw in terms of profile and grind. I genuinely do not think anyone does ginsan better than Mr.Yamatsuka.



Those knives look really nice, especially the profile. Maybe I’ll throw out a feeler on BST for one because I can’t justify paying 4-500 on a 210mm.


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## mattador (Aug 15, 2018)

Pensacola Tiger said:


> Gesshin Kagekiyo.



How pronounced is the wide bevel?


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## Choppin (Aug 15, 2018)

Kagekiyo and Konusuke Ginsan are two I’m considering... would love some feedback on both


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## Moooza (Aug 15, 2018)

Kanehiro nashiji is also very nice.


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## JBroida (Aug 15, 2018)

mattador said:


> How pronounced is the wide bevel?


we have a new sharpening professional doing the ginsanko series right now, and the wide bevels are quite nice... much nicer than before, where they were more extremely hollow ground. Also, the spine and choil rounding/faceting is much nicer on the ginsanko series now too. I think we have updated pictures on the website.


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## mattador (Aug 15, 2018)

JBroida said:


> we have a new sharpening professional doing the ginsanko series right now, and the wide bevels are quite nice... much nicer than before, where they were more extremely hollow ground. Also, the spine and choil rounding/faceting is much nicer on the ginsanko series now too. I think we have updated pictures on the website.



I have one of your heiji gyutos, how would it compare to that? The knives look amazing but I’m trying to avoid overlap in my kit.


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## mattador (Aug 15, 2018)

Choppin said:


> Kagekiyo and Konusuke Ginsan are two I’m considering... would love some feedback on both



I have an eye on the MM ginsan and would like some feedback as well


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## JBroida (Aug 15, 2018)

mattador said:


> I have one of your heiji gyutos, how would it compare to that? The knives look amazing but I’m trying to avoid overlap in my kit.


very different... much wider bevels, thinner at the spine and behind the edge. But the biggest difference is generally the mid-section thickness. the fit and finish is also MUCH better. The heiji knives are a bit rustic, while the gesshin kagekiyo are the polor opposite. The heiji bevels are flatter though. Of course there are obvious steel differences too. Very different knives.


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## Omega (Aug 15, 2018)

@Choppin Konosuke Ginsan has two varieties now- the 'old' Fujiyama Ginsan (which I don't believe is in production anymore) and the 'MM Ginsan'. 

The older Fujiyama was the standard Fujiyama design- wide bevel, rounded spine and choil, though more prone to being undersized [220mm for some listed as 240. Usually not as tall, too]. Had a little more geometry to it. 
The MM Ginsans are much thinner throughout; akin to an HD2. But with that, they're more true-to-size; longer on the edge, and taller at the heel. 

Both good knives, for sure! But just different now.


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## HRC_64 (Aug 15, 2018)

MM Ginsanko is a good knife, but make sure you do your homework on what you are getting.


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## Jville (Aug 16, 2018)

My favorite is definitely takayuki ginsan. I have the non dammy 240. It's not just my favorite ginsan but easily one of my favorite knives I've used.


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## labor of love (Aug 16, 2018)

Choppin said:


> Where can I find one? Thanks


Someone answer this mans question please. Lol


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## masibu (Aug 16, 2018)

I just received a forged sukenari ginsan 270 gyuto from BST and my initial impressions are very positive. It is a true workhorse, solid spine and thin edge with all the rounding of the choil etc. Tanaka ginsan is good but this thing is even more solid (even more so than my old yoshikane skd that I had regretted selling for a long time). I'm pretty excited to put a decent edge on it and see how she goes but so far I feel like I miss my Yoshi less. I was starting to consider going to laser territory again but this was a firm reminder of where my preferences lie for a gyuto. I haven't used the higher end stuff from sakai takayuki or konosuke and the like to compare but I cant imagine this being that far behind (minus the wide bevel).


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## Grunt173 (Aug 16, 2018)

Choppin said:


> Where can I find one? Thanks


I hate to say it:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WQG8N3M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Grunt173 (Aug 16, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Someone answer this mans question please. Lol


Here Labor:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WQG8N3M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Midsummer (Aug 16, 2018)

labor of love said:


> Someone answer this mans question please. Lol



Here is what I have seen in stock

https://www.japanny.com/collections...apanese-gyuto-chefs-knife?variant=20074212806

https://www.chuboknives.com/products/sakai-takayuki-ginsanko-wa-gyutou-240mm-9-4#.W3U-li2ZO9Y

https://www.hocho-knife.com/sakai-takayuki-33-layer-damascus-gingami-no-3/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sakai-Taka...57:m:mPD3x4G1VhnZ7995xjtBwQw&var=472144842364

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WQG2V8K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.tablinstore.info/product/2098

https://www.tablinstore.info/product/1657

https://yuisenri.com/collections/sa...tyle-gyuto-chefs-knife?variant=12119827251294


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## ThinMan (Aug 16, 2018)

@Midsummer Very impressive and very kind of you.

Also:

http://www.knivesandstones.com/sakai-takayuki-syousin-gin-sakura-wa-gyuto-240mm-ginsanko/


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## Chicagohawkie (Aug 16, 2018)

I just picked up a Tanaka Ginsan from K&S. Very light and laser like. I didn’t know what to expect when I got it, but when it arrived I became very impressed. One of the sharpest knives I’ve ever received. I had to pry it out of the cutting board upon first use. Love the stainless non maintainence. For 200 bucks this blows away something like a kono HD in my opinion.


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## Grunt173 (Aug 16, 2018)

I have the K&S Tanaka Ginsan 210 also.It is a wonderful knife ,light and laser like but my 210 En Ginsanko from JKI is even lighter and thinner without being overly fragile.The tip is also thinner but not so paper thin that one would have to worry unless they were a klutz.


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## Nemo (Aug 16, 2018)

Tanaka Ginsan Najishi is also my only ginsanko knife. I like it a lot but I am curious whether anyone has compared its sharpening feel (as a surrogate marker for heat treatment I guess) to some of the other knives mentioned here?


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## JaVa (Aug 16, 2018)

I don’t get the Tanaka ginsan nashiji being a laser remarks???

Mine weighs almost 210g (both the ginsan and b2 versions) and has a significant middleweight size spine. Sure it’s laser thin behind the edge with it’s hollow grind wide bevel and high shoulder line and It does cut almost like a laser. Still...

I have several lasers like the Takamure R2 or Shiro Kamo B2 migaki etc. and I really wouldn’t put the Tanaka ginsan nashiji in the same category as those. It’s squarely in the middleweight class IMO.

Don’t get me wrong I’m a fan and love it. Wonderful no nonsence food destroyer with some serious talent.

Now, I also have the Tanaka ginsan migaki version which treads slightly in the laser territory, but it’s a complitely different knife.


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## panda (Aug 16, 2018)

my yoshihiro western is great but only after i did a ton of work on it including regrinding which was painful process lol. out of the box what it comes with is a good profile and steel, it's mono!!


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## HRC_64 (Aug 16, 2018)

JaVa said:


> I don’t get the Tanaka ginsan nashiji being a laser remarks???



Same with the Kono MM, which has a ~3mm spine. Its not a laser, but its very thin behind the edge.


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## Grunt173 (Aug 16, 2018)

JaVa said:


> I don’t get the Tanaka ginsan nashiji being a laser remarks???
> 
> Mine weighs almost 210g (both the ginsan and b2 versions) and has a significant middleweight size spine. Sure it’s laser thin behind the edge with it’s hollow grind wide bevel and high shoulder line and It does cut almost like a laser. Still...
> 
> ...


True,I had misspoken about the Tanaka.I guess I was just trying to say something to Chicago's statement but no,it is not a laser but a middle class in and of itself. I don't own a true laser and the En Ginsanko 210 is my really,the only knife I consider,my laser, because of it's light weight and thinness.
Oops,got to go because Jon just sent me something to go with my En Gisanko 210 and I need to open the USPS box right now.I think it might even be the big brother to the 210.How much you want to bet?


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 16, 2018)

What is an En?


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## labor of love (Aug 16, 2018)

Mucho Bocho said:


> What is an En?


https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/en


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## Grunt173 (Aug 16, 2018)

labor of love said:


> https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/en


You took the words right out of my mouth.lol. I was just going to send the same link.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 16, 2018)

AH TKS, Not sure how I missed those. 

I've got the Fuiji Kono's in 210/240. The 240 is in ultra-laser category, the core is exposed almost 1 cm up the wide bevel. The 210 is actually 200, thicker at the spine with more pronounced taper. Its the only ginsanko I have but the sharpness compares with AEBL and RWL-34.


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## mattador (Aug 16, 2018)

For edge retention, where would you put ginsan? Any close comparisons. I know heat treat and hardness come to play so please include the maker of that specific ginsan blade.


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## Mucho Bocho (Aug 16, 2018)

Matt, I'd say there all very close honestly. My WS Meij Kramer SG2 edge last longer than the others, but its also 64hrc.

I have to say it again, the best stainless steel I have or have ever used is a Chef Choice Trizor Chef knife. Some of us think the steel is really CM-154 but it will hold an edge forever.

Sorry off point, I'd say good for stainless, not as long as semi-stainless and not as long a powdered stainless.


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 16, 2018)

The older Metal Master Tanaka Nashiji Ginsan tall bevels were beefier behind the edge and the Nashiji finish was rougher. They were nice blades cut well and were durable.

The Ginsan Tanaka's from K&S are more refined with thinner tall bevels again very good cutters for the price. My experience with Tanaka's quality heat treatments Ginsan, Blue#2, and VG10 .

We get a little spoiled splitting hairs on which steel is best. Grind is important too. Bottom line is Ginsan is a very good semi stainless steel well suited for kitchen knives. Good edge retention and easy to sharpen.

Edge retention of powder steels like R2 and SRS15 maybe slightly better than G3


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## HRC_64 (Aug 16, 2018)

mattador said:


> For edge retention, where would you put ginsan? Any close comparisons. I know heat treat and hardness come to play so please include the maker of that specific ginsan blade.



Ginsan touches up easily which is the strong point of the steel.
Think white steel in a similar configuration and thats about right.

I think that there is some risk to conflate G3 with White2,
however, so don't go that far.


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## labor of love (Aug 16, 2018)

So still no ones tried mazaki ginsanko yet?


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## Jville (Aug 16, 2018)

ThinMan said:


> @Midsummer Very impressive and very kind of you.
> 
> Also:
> 
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/sakai-takayuki-syousin-gin-sakura-wa-gyuto-240mm-ginsanko/


I believe the one you referenced is a little bit different of a knife, I thought different sharpener and it's own knife. Although I've heard it's excellent.


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## Jville (Aug 16, 2018)

labor of love said:


> So still no ones tried mazaki ginsanko yet?


Great question! Because we've know they've sold, so come on peeps and spill the beans


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## GorillaGrunt (Aug 17, 2018)

Jville said:


> Great question! Because we've know they've sold, so come on peeps and spill the beans



I’ve got a 270 suji. It’s tall enough to use for general duty so I have, but it’s hard to compare to gyuto. Also I don’t really know enough about steel or have broad enough experience with ginsan to evaluate it in that regard, but the Mazaki geometry is amazing and it’s a fabulous knife in a general sense.


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## HRC_64 (Aug 17, 2018)

I'd be really interested to hear if you or anyone may also have a white-steel mazaki and how the two steels compare in a simple head to head.


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## labor of love (Aug 17, 2018)

I’d be interested in hearing more about how the new maz from jns with charcoal(quenching?) is different from other mazaki knives.


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## HRC_64 (Aug 17, 2018)

labor of love said:


> I’d be interested in hearing more about how the new maz from jns with charcoal(quenching?) is different from other mazaki knives.


AFIK Mazaki does all his own work, so it might yield more interesting results in terms of comparison of the steel.
Konosuke or Kagekiyo doesn't really compare head to head with blue vs ginsan versions.


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## dafox (Aug 23, 2018)

Any more impressions on the JKI En?


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## Grunt173 (Aug 24, 2018)

dafox said:


> Any more impressions on the JKI En?


Jon's description of the knife is spot on on his website.I haven't been prepping to many meals lately though as the farm chores have been taking up much of my time. I will say this though. i have both the 210 and the 240 laying out on the cutting board to use and my knife block with all my other knives are pushed off to the side because I have been reaching for my En's more.The 210 balances right at my pinch grip and feels really light in hand.The 240 balances just in front of the pinch grip which gives the blade a more substantial feel. Both are a pleasure to use however and I go back and forth between them depending on what I am cutting or if my board is cluttered or not. I believe they are the lightest feeling knives I own and they have made me rethink wanting to get a more laser like knife because I fear I would hurt it.These En's are just light and thin enough for me and in a steel that I don't have to worry about reactivity when I am in a" hurry and get her done", frame of mind.For the money,I don't think you can go wrong.I think I made a good choice myself.


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## dafox (Aug 24, 2018)

Grunt173 said:


> Jon's description of the knife is spot on on his website.I haven't been prepping to many meals lately though as the farm chores have been taking up much of my time. I will say this though. i have both the 210 and the 240 laying out on the cutting board to use and my knife block with all my other knives are pushed off to the side because I have been reaching for my En's more.The 210 balances right at my pinch grip and feels really light in hand.The 240 balances just in front of the pinch grip which gives the blade a more substantial feel. Both are a pleasure to use however and I go back and forth between them depending on what I am cutting or if my board is cluttered or not. I believe they are the lightest feeling knives I own and they have made me rethink wanting to get a more laser like knife because I fear I would hurt it.These En's are just light and thin enough for me and in a steel that I don't have to worry about reactivity when I am in a" hurry and get her done", frame of mind.For the money,I don't think you can go wrong.I think I made a good choice myself.



Thanks, what's the profile like?


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## Grunt173 (Aug 24, 2018)

dafox said:


> Thanks, what's the profile like?


To be honest,there isn't much of a flat spot throughout.It is more like a continual slight curve with maybe a hint of a flat spot running for about 2 inches from the heel but even that is a very gradual curve to a belly.I don't use these knives as a chopper but more like push and pull cutting.They are light enough to have complete control of.If you like a lot of flat spot for chopping,these are not it.I knew that going in because you can pretty much view the profile on the JKI website if you want to have a look see and get a better idea.


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## dafox (Aug 24, 2018)

Grunt173 said:


> To be honest,there isn't much of a flat spot throughout.It is more like a continual slight curve with maybe a hint of a flat spot running for about 2 inches from the heel but even that is a very gradual curve to a belly.I don't use these knives as a chopper but more like push and pull cutting.They are light enough to have complete control of.If you like a lot of flat spot for chopping,these are not it.I knew that going in because you can pretty much view the profile on the JKI website if you want to have a look see and get a better idea.


Perfect, just what I wanted to know, thanks.


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## dafox (Aug 24, 2018)

panda said:


> my yoshihiro western is great but only after i did a ton of work on it including regrinding which was painful process lol. out of the box what it comes with is a good profile and steel, it's mono!!



Panda, if you were to do it again what stones would you use? 
What is the profile like?
Thanks


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## dafox (Jul 5, 2020)

Grunt173 said:


> Oh ok,in that case,I most recently bought the En Ginsanko in 210 mm from JKI. I like using it so much that I just ordered the En Ginsanko in 240 mm from them as well.I'll get to see it on Friday.Dog gone nice knife.I haven't had it long enough to speak to anything like edge retention or sharpening. I am still cutting with the out of box edge etc.


Any long term follow up on the En?
These are back in stock now.


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## karimcheese (Aug 20, 2021)

I bought a tanaka ginsan for my first japanese knife and I loved it. I definitely felt scared of “hurting it” always self-conscious about chipping it. Unfortunately I ended up leaving my knife bag on the bus and lost it along with other kitchen tools. Barely had it a few months  Now I’m currently looking at the En-ginsanko as it was one of the knives Jon recommended but I see that it doesn’t have as much of a flat spot and its width is even thinner from the middle and the tip so it may not be the best option for me. I do push and pull cutting but it would be nice to be able to use also as a chopper. Any other Ginsan recommendations or is the tanaka best option for me at $250 or less?


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## M1k3 (Aug 20, 2021)

karimcheese said:


> I bought a tanaka ginsan for my first japanese knife and I loved it. I definitely felt scared of “hurting it” always self-conscious about chipping it. Unfortunately I ended up leaving my knife bag on the bus and lost it along with other kitchen tools. Barely had it a few months  Now I’m currently looking at the En-ginsanko as it was one of the knives Jon recommended but I see that it doesn’t have as much of a flat spot and its width is even thinner from the middle and the tip so it may not be the best option for me. I do push and pull cutting but it would be nice to be able to use also as a chopper. Any other Ginsan recommendations or is the tanaka best option for me at $250 or less?


Sukenari perhaps?


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## Jovidah (Aug 20, 2021)

No clue about how they compare since I never saw a Tanaka up close, but the Sukenari is nice, great bang for the buck. A bit bland in the blade finish and not much distal taper, and very 'middle of the road on things like grind and weight. Nice f&f and good handles.


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## tostadas (Aug 20, 2021)

JCK also just recently got some Sukenari Ginsan back in stock


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## Qapla' (Aug 20, 2021)

What are some recommendable ginsan western gyuto's?


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 20, 2021)

I can only speak for the Tanaka
The grinds on the ginsan from James are excellent. I like how the heel along cutting edge
sweeps back a little. I got the light version cut little off the handle end to make it slightly shorter. Don't care for long skinny wa handles. Just me
Most people don't give a rip. Was thinking of making a handle for it, but to me it looks better
now. For the money as you know the Tanaka's 
are great knives. They are good cutters.


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## McMan (Aug 20, 2021)

At the cheapie end of the spectrum... I have a harayuki in Ginsan (which I think are the same as the Harukaze sold at cktg?) that I was impressed with considering the price.

Have heard wonderful things about Tanaka but haven't had a chance to try one in Ginsan.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Aug 20, 2021)

karimcheese said:


> I bought a tanaka ginsan for my first japanese knife and I loved it. I definitely felt scared of “hurting it” always self-conscious about chipping it. Unfortunately I ended up leaving my knife bag on the bus and lost it along with other kitchen tools. Barely had it a few months  Now I’m currently looking at the En-ginsanko as it was one of the knives Jon recommended but I see that it doesn’t have as much of a flat spot and its width is even thinner from the middle and the tip so it may not be the best option for me. I do push and pull cutting but it would be nice to be able to use also as a chopper. Any other Ginsan recommendations or is the tanaka best option for me at $250 or less?



Tsunehisa


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## karimcheese (Aug 20, 2021)

Yea I really loved my tanaka. I got the non-lite version from their Australia site. Checked the Sukenari - does anyone know if their US store version differs from Australia aside from handle options. The US one says Sanmai.









Sukenari Ginsanko Gyuto 210 mm Sanmai


The Sukenari Ginsan line features the stat-of-the-art cutlery steel: Ginsanko (銀三鋼) by Hitachi. Apart from being stainless, the Ginsanko is said to closely resembles the property of White 2 steel, making it one of the favorite stainless steel among the professional chefs in Japan and is...



knivesandstones.us













Sukenari Ginsanko Gyuto 210mm


The Sukenari Ginsan line features the stat-of-the-art cutlery steel: Ginsanko (銀三鋼) by Hitachi. Apart from being stainless, the Ginsanko is said to closely resembles the property of White 2 steel, making it one of the favorite stainless steel among the professional chefs in Japan and is...




www.knivesandstones.com.au


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 20, 2021)

Sorry to hear you lost your kit that's a bummer.
Did you check lost & found with the bus company. If no contact info. they hold items left
on bus.


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## karimcheese (Aug 20, 2021)

Keith Sinclair said:


> Sorry to hear you lost your kit that's a bummer.
> Did you check lost & found with the bus company. If no contact info. they hold items left
> on bus.


Yea I filed a lost item report on Sunday but nothing has turned up so far.


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## karimcheese (Aug 20, 2021)

I’ve seen great things written about the Takayuki but its out of my budget


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## labor of love (Aug 20, 2021)

karimcheese said:


> I bought a tanaka ginsan for my first japanese knife and I loved it. I definitely felt scared of “hurting it” always self-conscious about chipping it. Unfortunately I ended up leaving my knife bag on the bus and lost it along with other kitchen tools. Barely had it a few months  Now I’m currently looking at the En-ginsanko as it was one of the knives Jon recommended but I see that it doesn’t have as much of a flat spot and its width is even thinner from the middle and the tip so it may not be the best option for me. I do push and pull cutting but it would be nice to be able to use also as a chopper. Any other Ginsan recommendations or is the tanaka best option for me at $250 or less?


I had the opportunity to use an En gyuto. Very good distal taper and thinness for the price. Not the flattest profile but seemed fine to me. Flatter than ginga I believe.


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## mc2442 (Aug 20, 2021)

Is Jon expecting they restock the En soon? I only see the santoku as currently available.


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## daveb (Aug 20, 2021)

I "lost" my EN somewhere while moving, me thinks it had a sticky handle. It could easily be an only knife for a normie. Very thin at the tip, some heft through the middle, a little belly but not a distracting amount. I would prob buy another. I found the Tanaka G to be a nice, average, no frills knife - well worth the coin. I preferred (slightly) the stainless clad blue. The Tadasuna INOX knives are ginsanko and I like them pretty well, again the steel does not make or break the knife. A nice knife, especially for someone looking for a laser.

Two favorites are a couple single bevels. Hide Yanagiba is well ground, a bit of a beech to sharpen (probably me), robust enough to be tasked. And a Suisin Deba that works better on fish than I do. It's an easy day sharpening.


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## cantdecidewhichone (Aug 21, 2021)

I just got a Konosuke MM Ginsan 240mm Gyuto from BST and it's very similar to Kono Fujiyama FM in performance. I really really really like it. Was easier to sharpen than I thought.


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## xxxclx (Aug 21, 2021)

I really like my Kagekiyo Ginsan gyuto from CKC. It is my goto stainless knife at home and it has a place in my knife roll when I take it to cook at friends' dinner parties. The walnut handle on the knife is really nicely textured and grippy. The steel keeps the edge well (so far I've only stropped it on felt), takes a patina very very slowly and is generally a great performer.









Kagekiyo Ginsan Gyuto 240mm Walnut Handle


Kagekiyo Ginsan is produced in Sakai by Baba Hamono. Hand forged from Ginsan (Silver 3) stainless steel and cladded in stainless steel. This series is ground with light convexity and hamaguriba edge with no shinogi line. This series has very impressive performance and is very thin behind the...




carbonknifeco.com


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## ModRQC (Aug 21, 2021)

Am I the only one who finds the "closely resemble the property of White #2" thing rather peculiar?


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## Jovidah (Aug 21, 2021)

Well that is pretty much what G3 is; white steel with some chromium...barely any other alloys.


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## xxxclx (Aug 21, 2021)

ModRQC said:


> Am I the only one who finds the "closely resemble the property of White #2" thing rather peculiar?



"is said to closely resemble"


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## daniel_il (Aug 21, 2021)

i have the tanaka ginsan as a laserish gyuto and a takayuki ginsan for workhorse.

they are both great in their own way. the tanaka is a great value-performance, the takayuki have beautiful f&f and amazing grinds.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Aug 21, 2021)

xxxclx said:


> "is said to closely resemble"



White 2 vs. G3 Chart


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## ModRQC (Aug 21, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> Well that is pretty much what G3 is; white steel with some chromium...barely any other alloys.



Ah yes, tomato-tomato. It's a wonder why KKF exists, and why we even make do with the obvious downsides of carbon steels.


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## Jovidah (Aug 21, 2021)

Don't get me wrong, I see your point that the similarity is somewhat overstated, but from a composition perspective ginsan really is the closest thing to 'white but stainless'.

I don't consider myself qualified enough to judge how much they really differ in practice; my sample size is too small for that.


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## Keith Sinclair (Aug 21, 2021)

Most of my knives are white steel mono & clad.
I like G3 as a stainless. Easy to sharpen.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Aug 21, 2021)

karimcheese said:


> I bought a tanaka ginsan for my first japanese knife and I loved it. I definitely felt scared of “hurting it” always self-conscious about chipping it. Unfortunately I ended up leaving my knife bag on the bus and lost it along with other kitchen tools. Barely had it a few months  Now I’m currently looking at the En-ginsanko as it was one of the knives Jon recommended but I see that it doesn’t have as much of a flat spot and its width is even thinner from the middle and the tip so it may not be the best option for me. I do push and pull cutting but it would be nice to be able to use also as a chopper. Any other Ginsan recommendations or is the tanaka best option for me at $250 or less?



Sale through the weekend and Dustin usually has a decent Tsunehisa Ginsan selection.









RealSharpKnife.com Japanese knives and Natural stones


Handmade Japanese Kitchen and Pocket Knives, Customized Chef knives, Custom Wa Handles, Chef Tools, Sharpening Stones and Supplies, Japanese Natural Stones. Competitive pricing and free shipping in the United States. Worldwide shipping is available.




realsharpknife.com


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## ModRQC (Aug 21, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> Don't get me wrong, I see your point that the similarity is somewhat overstated, but from a composition perspective ginsan really is the closest thing to 'white but stainless'.
> 
> I don't consider myself qualified enough to judge how much they really differ in practice; my sample size is too small for that.



AEB-L would be closer. Composition lies in the sense that the same amount of C for AEB-H than White 2 generates more carbides than the lower amount does with AEB-L. So Chromium for Stainless aside, AEB-L is more pure thus closest to a simple Carbon as can be while stainless.

I also don’t think « property » or «properties » is a synonym of compositon. Here properties couldn’t be more different: AEB-H has teeth naturally and prefers edges that leave them there. With the right edge it will last half of forever. Pretty tough steel too.

White #2 doesn’t have teeth and shines most with the finest of edges that makes sense for use. As we all know, edge retention is not a strong suit of it. Neither is toughness.

Of course as SS goes Ginsan is a closer match than many… but even with AEB-L vs White it’s a bit like saying algae and fish have close properties because they both live in water… adding back in properties of SS in general against Carbon in general, and it’s a bit more like talking algae vs bird.

I was not trying to say KnS has it wrong or anything. I understand the formulation as some kind of « legend has it »… but that kind of claim is so totallly useless in reality.

Nor that Ginsan is inferior or superior to White. Radically different areas where each can shine best. Both among favorites of mine.


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## Jovidah (Aug 22, 2021)

I have to admit though that I would consider the Sukenari ginsan the 'closest thing to carbon'-ish knife that I've sharpened. Different from the usual VG-10 and AUS-10 fare that you mostly see in that hardness range... though admittedly I never had any AEB-L. Not sure how things would stack up in a larger sample size.


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## K.Bouldin (Aug 22, 2021)

I’ve got a Hariyuki kukoto ginsan santoku, same pre-lam that about 5 other makers use, even the tsuchime/ nashiji finish is the same. Good entry into the ginsan world. It’s gets sharp easily, but edge retention is not its strong suit. 

I’m thinking of picking up this:








Satoshi Nakagawa Ginsan Kiritsuke Gyuto 210mm


Satoshi Nakagawa-san learnt all his skills from the famous Kenichi Shiraki of Shiraki Hamono. When Shiraki-san retired in 2020, the torch was passed down to Nakagawa-san. This relatively young but very talented blacksmith can forge various different type of steel including traditional carbon...




knifewear.com





Wondering if anyone can say if this knife would’ve been laminated in house? I’m thinking that it’s going to be like any other Hitachi steel where if the maker pushes it to the limit it’s going to be a thing of legend.


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## ModRQC (Aug 23, 2021)

K.Bouldin said:


> I’ve got a Hariyuki kukoto ginsan santoku, same pre-lam that about 5 other makers use, even the tsuchime/ nashiji finish is the same. Good entry into the ginsan world. It’s gets sharp easily, but edge retention is not its strong suit.
> 
> I’m thinking of picking up this:
> 
> ...



Edge retention not so good compared to what? And finished at what grits? AEB-L dulls quite faster especially where it's not very toothy to begin with, makes the dulling curve steeper. Amongst ingot SS Ginsan stands pretty nice as a compromise for refined SS that keeps a bite for a good while. I would not bring it over 3K finish though. Very fine edges could take easily but sure didn't last long in my experience. To me it fares like regular HT 440C. Probably less at equal RC, but usually being 2-3 RC higher makes up for it. 

VG-10 may have a half-life of very long duration, but I prefer Ginsan regular dulling curve - it gives a good while of good service. I've also had good results lightly honing it on a smooth rod when in a hurry. Also easy to touch up.

I really can't see much of regular ingot SS lasting so much longer.


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