# How to use Norton's Crystolon?



## Benuser (Jul 21, 2021)

Strangely, the stone isn't that well known in Europe as among the American users here, although the maker is part of the French Saint Gobain group. Question: it is being called an oil stone, but how do you use it? Which kind of oil? Is it possible to be used with water instead?


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jul 21, 2021)

They are impregnated with oil from the factory.

You can use water and many folks do. If you go that route, I'd recommend occasionally using oil to refresh it and clean up the stone's surface.

Honing oil (highly refined mineral oil) is really best but I find for stones this course laxative-grade mineral oil is fine. You don't need a lot. Not like a water stone with standing water on it. 

I also like to rub the surface with some fresh oil after use to clean up some of the swarf. Then I wash it with warm soapy water and let it dry.

They can take a good amount of pressure if you feel the need.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Jul 21, 2021)

I use mine with water and propylene glycol. The stone does seem to cut a bit faster with oil, but it's not worth the mess to me.


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## cotedupy (Jul 21, 2021)

Right, now we're in one of my (vanishingly few) areas of expertise...

You can use with either, and indeed if you particularly want - try to get the oil out of it beforehand. I warn you now though: there is _a lot_ of oil. More oil than stone, far more. Untold quantities of oil; reservoirs beyond our ken.

Whether or not you want to grapple with the infinite depends on how you intend to use it. If you're using it for normal sharpening, edge setting, or small chips or stock removal - I'd leave the oil in. As VJC said above - it will probably work slightly faster with oil for lighter work, but you might find that (cut) water works faster for stuff where you're applying more pressure.

If you want it for super-heavy work then I'm afraid I would advise using with straight water after de-oiling the stone, which is what I did. It took me eight months.

Though if you're successful then perhaps you could sell some back to the Saudis!


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## Benuser (Jul 21, 2021)

How do you do to get the oil out of it?


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## spaceconvoy (Jul 21, 2021)

Boil it gently in soapy water. It's disgusting, and leaves a residue that's more like a slime than an oil


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## TB_London (Jul 21, 2021)

It’s a silicone carbide stone whereas the Norton India is aluminium oxide. They’re fairly common in UK and are the de facto stones for woodworking. 
Silicone carbide is a hard and sharp abrasive so they can cut for a long time without dulling. I believe Crystolon are a sintered stone so no/minimal binder, and you won’t get as much slurry as you will with a similarly coarse water stone. The Norton are much better than cheaper SiC stones I’ve tried with the Norton less friable and quicker cutting.

You can try and get the oil out, but easier to just use with mineral oil. Handy to have a bottle for wood chopping boards and it’s pretty cheap. 
I tried one with water and prefer it with oil too.

They can leave gnarly scratches in soft cladding but have a good material removal rate. Also the SiC is a hard abrasive so is happy with high HRC steels.

The India stones are also really good. I use mine with water and it works well. Cleans up the scratches from the crystolon well, better than coarse j stones I’ve tried (king 240/glass 500/chosera 400)

You can use heavy pressure and it’s pretty dish resistant.


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## Desert Rat (Jul 21, 2021)

I have used dish soap and water over crystolon stones when I didn't feel like using oil and didn't plan on spending much time on the stone. Water causes rust in my stone holders though and I prefer oil anyway.


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## cotedupy (Jul 21, 2021)

Benuser said:


> How do you do to get the oil out of it?



Well my chief weapon was surprise... surprise and fear. My two weapons were surprise and fear... and a near-limitless supply of detergent. _Amongst_ my weapons were surprise, fear, and a near-limitless supply of detergent &c. &c.

(Sorry - very hot water and a feck-load of dishwashing liquid. Repeat _ad nauseum, _though you might have got to nauseum after the first soak tbh.)


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## MowgFace (Jul 21, 2021)

BDL from another forum, recommended dishwashing (empty dishwasher to not fack up the rest of your dishes) the stone a few times, but after the first wash I abandoned ship due to the sheer amount of oil residue. 

Maybe i could have run a few more times as prescribed, but a bucket of water with a constant flush and re application of dish soap a few times did just fine, and it didn't worry me I'd have to buy a new DW.


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## TB_London (Jul 21, 2021)

If you really want to get the oil out, rather than soap, a strong solution of soda crystals (sodium carbonate) in very hot water would be my approach. About 200g Crystal per 500ml water and start with boiling water


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## M1k3 (Jul 22, 2021)

If you use oil and get some stubborn swarf stuck in the stone, WD-40 with the little straw spray attachment is a miracle worker.


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## Benuser (Jul 22, 2021)

That's a lot of information and different options you have provided, guys! Thanks a lot, much appreciated!


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## HumbleHomeCook (Jul 22, 2021)

M1k3 said:


> If you use oil and get some stubborn swarf stuck in the stone, WD-40 with the little straw spray attachment is a miracle worker.



Agreed. A toothbrush and some Bar Keeper's Friend can be very good on dirty stones as well.


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## Bobby2shots (Jul 22, 2021)

Benuser said:


> Strangely, the stone isn't that well known in Europe as among the American users here, although the maker is part of the French Saint Gobain group. Question: it is being called an oil stone, but how do you use it? Which kind of oil? Is it possible to be used with water instead?



Norton says "best used with oil"

For cleaning,,,, use Kerosene and a stiff brush, then, re-oil.

I've got a can of "Norton Sharpening Stone Oil" which appears to be nothing more than readily available mineral oil. The label says "meet U.S. Pharmacopoeia Standards" and "contains no animal or fish oils".






Norton 4-1/2-ounce Sharpening Stone Oil : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement


Norton 4-1/2-ounce Sharpening Stone Oil : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement



www.amazon.ca





Hope that helps. This video might help, but I haven't watched it completely.


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## Desert Rat (Jul 22, 2021)

I have tried all kinds of things to get oil out of old oil stones. The best I have found is to just drop them into a container of simple green and forget them for a week or two. It's not fast if you are looking for instant gratification but it is very effective, almost labor free, nontoxic, no nasty chemicals.

Here is a very old Washita. This thing could easily have more than a hundred years of of old oil accumulated into the stone.

As found.





After a week or two.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2m1fFg1]



After a couple of months.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2mcNtoR]



I don't think a new Crtystolon stone would take very long. They are very porous and the oil is new. Might be that you have to refresh the the Simple Green a couple of times I'm not sure.


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 21, 2021)

I don't see why so many want to get rid of the oil. Just use loose silicon carbide powder to clean and re-condition the oil stone, then re-oil with the next use. That's a heckuva lot simpler than spending hours, days, trying to get rid of the oil.


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## Jovidah (Aug 21, 2021)

For me the whole reason I don't bother with oil stones in the first place is that I do all my sharpening in the kitchen. Cleaning up water + some mud is trivial. Cleaning up oily mess is less so.


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 21, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> For me the whole reason I don't bother with oil stones in the first place is that I do all my sharpening in the kitchen. Cleaning up water + some mud is trivial. Cleaning up oily mess is less so.



That's true, but how often do you really need to clean a clogged stone vs cleaning only the knife, and patting the oil-stone with a paper towel. Plus, we're talking "food-grade Mineral Oil",,, and not a petroleum-based oil. I would think that oil would dissolve rather quickly with Dawn and hot water if you're just cleaning the surface of the stone.

I've got a few cans of Norton "Honing" Oil, and Norton "Sharpening-Stone" Oil, and both are labelled "Mineral Oil" and "contains no animal or fish oils". They're probably both the same oil.


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## Jovidah (Aug 21, 2021)

Isn't all mineral oil based off petroleum in one way or another (or a byproduct)? Not that I particularly care about that since I use mineral oil on all my kitchen related wood products.
Sure, you can clean oil based mess, but why would you when there's good water-based alternatives where cleanup is literally 5 seconds. At least that's my (rather uninformed) reasoning. Can't speak for others.


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## captaincaed (Aug 21, 2021)

Desert Rat said:


> I have tried all kinds of things to get oil out of old oil stones. The best I have found is to just drop them into a container of simple green and forget them for a week or two. It's not fast if you are looking for instant gratification but it is very effective, almost labor free, nontoxic, no nasty chemicals.
> 
> Here is a very old Washita. This thing could easily have more than a hundred years of of old oil accumulated into the stone.
> 
> ...


Great work! 

To avoid nasty chemicals, this is the way. Three things affect particular chemical reactions: heat, time and concentration. If you don't go the route of industrial degreasers like oven cleaner or engine block cleaner, these are the dials you can adjust. 

You DO need to add more chemical during any serious cleaning procedure. Chemical bonding uses up the cleaner in a predictable ratio with the grease (say 1 part cleaner consumes 2 parts grease). This of course doesn't apply to a catalyst, but that's another topic. As you bump up the concentration of cleaner, the reaction occurs more quickly. Same with heat (for nearly all reactions). Liquid circulation also brings cleaner in contact with grease. Time moves at its own pace, so set and forget makes sense. 

Also, several small washes are much more efficient than one big wash. You can clean maybe 50% more grease with the same amount of cleaner if you do it in 5 small rounds rather than one big one, rinsing between steps. This is due to a certain fraction of grease left behind each cleaning cycle. I can't recall the name of the rule, but think of it like compounding interest. If you don't believe me try it with your dishes. As you pull grease and cleaner out of the water and refresh it, the chemical system will try to equilibrate by forcing more grease-cleaner bonded pairs off the stone and into solution. If the water is too dirty, this equilibration process shows down. Le Chateliers principle. 

Morale: several small baths of fresh water and cleaner rather than one big one. Warm it up. Wait a while. 

Source : I was a chemist for 7 years.


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 21, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> *Isn't all mineral oil based off petroleum in one way or another (or a byproduct)? *Not that I particularly care about that since I use mineral oil on all my kitchen related wood products.
> Sure, you can clean oil based mess, but why would you when there's good water-based alternatives where cleanup is literally 5 seconds. At least that's my (rather uninformed) reasoning. Can't speak for others.



As far as I know, it's plant-based oils; coconut oil for example. One of my buddies actually manufactures plant-based oil for cutting boards, BBQ grills etc.,,, basically the same stuff. Here's a few of his products;






Caron & Doucet - Cast Iron Cleaning & Conditioning Set: Seasoning Oil & Cleaning Soap | 100% Plant-Based & Best for Cleaning Care, Washing, Restoring & Seasoning Cast Iron Skillets, Pans & Grills! (8oz Each) : Amazon.ca: Health & Personal Care


Caron & Doucet - Cast Iron Cleaning & Conditioning Set: Seasoning Oil & Cleaning Soap | 100% Plant-Based & Best for Cleaning Care, Washing, Restoring & Seasoning Cast Iron Skillets, Pans & Grills! (8oz Each) : Amazon.ca: Health & Personal Care



www.amazon.ca










Caron & Doucet - BBQ Grill Cleaner Oil | 100% Plant-Based & Vegan | Best for Cleaning Barbeque Grills & Grates | Use with Wooden Scrapers, Brushes, Accessories & Tools | Great Gift for Dad! (8 oz) : Amazon.ca: Patio, Lawn & Garden


Caron & Doucet - BBQ Grill Cleaner Oil | 100% Plant-Based & Vegan | Best for Cleaning Barbeque Grills & Grates | Use with Wooden Scrapers, Brushes, Accessories & Tools | Great Gift for Dad! (8 oz) : Amazon.ca: Patio, Lawn & Garden



 www.amazon.ca










Caron & Doucet - Cutting Board & Butcher Block Conditioning Oil & Wood Finishing Wax Bundle | 100% Plant-Based, Best for Wood & Bamboo Conditioning & Sealing, Make Cleaning Easier! | Mineral Oil FREE! : Amazon.ca: Home


Caron & Doucet - Cutting Board & Butcher Block Conditioning Oil & Wood Finishing Wax Bundle | 100% Plant-Based, Best for Wood & Bamboo Conditioning & Sealing, Make Cleaning Easier! | Mineral Oil FREE! : Amazon.ca: Home



www.amazon.ca


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 21, 2021)

FWIW, I ordered a brand new 8" Crystolon stone just last night. I might try it with water just to see what happens. That, may be easier said than done for two reasons;

1.I suspect there'll be little if any loading to clear with just one sharpening session, and,

2. Since I don't know the precise formulation of the Crystolon stone, I'd be a little concerned about the possible presence of iron oxide in the stone, potentially causing rust and discoloration in the stone.


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## Benuser (Aug 21, 2021)

I feel uncomfortable when using pressure on a greasy blade. Think slipping fingers, close to the edge. Quite essential when thinning. Have tried so far with oil. 
I find the Crystolon quite remarkable with carbon steel. Not with soft stainless clad. I know that it's highly abrasion resistant. Doesn't seem to remove much steel, just leaving scratches. Any thoughts?


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 21, 2021)

Benuser said:


> I feel uncomfortable when using pressure on a greasy blade. Think slipping fingers, close to the edge. Quite essential when thinning. Have tried so far with oil.
> I find the Crystolon quite remarkable with carbon steel. Not with soft stainless clad. I know that it's highly abrasion resistant. Doesn't seem to remove much steel, just leaving scratches. Any thoughts?



I have a couple of REALLY OLD oil stones, one which was given to me after an elderly wood-worker/gentleman in his 90's passed away. I have no idea what oil he was using, but the stone is badly glazed. I never got to talk to him about his personal experience with that stone. As for myself, I've bought a few oil stones over the years, but it's easily been 30 years since I last used them. I most likely used those for sharpening my bench-chisels in my wood-shop. I don't recall ever using it for knife sharpening, other than a few pocket knives, and possibly an old Schrade folder, and maybe a Buck skinning knife. I simply can't remember any specifics, other than "O.K. it's sharp enough." It wouldn't surprise me if I used 3-in-1 machine oil back then, but I did recently find a very old can of "Norton Sharpening Stone OIL" in my shop. That was clearly labelled "Mineral Oil, meets FDA standards", and "contains no animal or fish oils".


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## HumbleHomeCook (Aug 21, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> FWIW, I ordered a brand new 8" Crystolon stone just last night. I might try it with water just to see what happens. That, may be easier said than done for two reasons;
> 
> 1.I suspect there'll be little if any loading to clear with just one sharpening session, and,
> 
> 2. Since I don't know the precise formulation of the Crystolon stone, I'd be a little concerned about the possible presence of iron oxide in the stone, potentially causing rust and discoloration in the stone.



Your new stone will come impregnated with oil. There is nothing wrong with using water with them from time to time but to properly maintain the stone, one should use oil here and there.

Proper use of an oil stone doesn't result in the terrible mess many people believe and that others profess. You don't need a lot of oil. This is actually where the mess is most likely to happen, the oil application. All too often we pour from the container and end up getting too much and drips and the like.

I use a universal stone holder for all my sharpening. If I'm using an oil stone, I just put a paper towel into the cradle and the nestle the stone atop it. This catches the overwhelming majority of overflow. But, I also sharpening atop my cutting board so if something does drip then no biggy.

If thinning, which I've played with, you do need to mindful of your oil volume as yes, the blade can get slick. That said, my own personal experiences tell me that Crystolon, and to a lesser extent, India's aren't ideal for thinning. They can leave a lot of scratches. I'd opt for sandpaper.

You do want to be mindful of not getting oil on any of your water stones. Some say it won't hurt them but I wouldn't want to try it out.

The greatest oil stone around is the soft Arkansas and it alone is worth it to me to keep the option open.


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 21, 2021)

I suspect that the reason oil-stones developed a bad-rap for clogging/glazing, was probably due to folks using whatever oil was cheap and available back on the farm, even if that was motor-oil or lamp-oil.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Aug 21, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> I suspect that the reason oil-stones developed a bad-rap for clogging/glazing, was probably due to folks using whatever oil was cheap and available back on the farm, even if that was motor-oil or lamp-oil.



The heavier the oil the less it'll cut and less propensity to clog or glaze.


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 21, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> Your new stone will come impregnated with oil. There is nothing wrong with using water with them from time to time but to properly maintain the stone, one should use oil here and there.
> 
> Proper use of an oil stone doesn't result in the terrible mess many people believe and that others profess. You don't need a lot of oil. This is actually where the mess is most likely to happen, the oil application. All too often we pour from the container and end up getting too much and drips and the like.
> 
> ...



I like that paper towel arrangement. Joe Calton uses a similar approach in his knife-shop.

Regarding "use",,, I doubt I'll ever use it for anything other than edge repair. I'm thinking "damaged and seriously rolled-over edges", prior to taking the knife to my Shapton coarse, or Norton coarse water-stones. I basically want to avoid deep scratches in my coarse water-stones. In the past, I've even used an axe-file as a "pre-repair" tool.

The stone I ordered is a combo stone, graded "coarse/fine". I couldn't find any other details.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Aug 21, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> I like that paper towel arrangement. Joe Calton uses a similar approach in his knife-shop.
> 
> Regarding "use",,, I doubt I'll ever use it for anything other than edge repair. I'm thinking "damaged and seriously rolled-over edges", prior to taking the knife to my Shapton coarse, or Norton coarse water-stones. I basically want to avoid deep scratches in my coarse water-stones. In the past, I've even used an axe-file as a "pre-repair" tool.
> 
> The stone I ordered is a combo stone, graded "coarse/fine". I couldn't find any other details.




It'll be around 120/320.


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 21, 2021)

I think you're right about the 320, but seems to me the coarse Crystolon goes well below 120. I thought I read that somewhere recently. Maybe one of Joe Caltons' Youtube video's. He uses the Crystolon extensively.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Aug 21, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> I think you're right about the 320, but seems to me the coarse Crystolon goes well below 120. I thought I read that somewhere recently. Maybe one of Joe Caltons' Youtube video's. He uses the Crystolon extensively.



Well, who am I to argue with ole Joe Calton?


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 21, 2021)

Maybe I'm thinking about the grit of loose SiC powder he uses to clean some of his stones, I'm pretty sure he uses 36 grit on some of them.


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## Jovidah (Aug 22, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> As far as I know, it's plant-based oils; coconut oil for example. One of my buddies actually manufactures plant-based oil for cutting boards, BBQ grills etc.,,, basically the same stuff. Here's a few of his products;


From what I've seen so far, unless specifically mentioned otherwise I'd lean towards assuming that most oils marketed as 'mineral oil' are still petroleum based.
Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that; it's sold as a medically approved laxative in some places, and as long as you get something that's food-safe I personally see no reason to worry about it.


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## cotedupy (Aug 22, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> From what I've seen so far, unless specifically mentioned otherwise I'd lean towards assuming that most oils marketed as 'mineral oil' are still petroleum based.
> Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that; it's sold as a medically approved laxative in some places, and as long as you get something that's food-safe I personally see no reason to worry about it.



Like you I was under the impression that all ‘Mineral Oil’ was petroleum based.

Maybe they can sell other stuff as MO too. I don’t think the term gets used much in English speaking countries apart from the US though. Certainly not in UK or Aus.


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## cotedupy (Aug 22, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> It'll be around 120/320.



I’ve seen this kind of level talked about before for Coarse and Fines. And I suspect that might be ANSI - my stone would run a bit finer than that in comparison to Japanese stones I think. (200 / 600 ish.)

Just a hunch, may be wrong... I’m no expert!


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## Ben.G. (Aug 22, 2021)

I just bought a Crystolon coarse stone a couple of weeks ago after seeing it recommended on here. I am comfortable using oil since using a Norton India combo at work for 6-7 years. The old chef bought it to use as a house stone. I reconditioned it with 60 grit sic powder once because idiot cooks would use canola or olive oil and it was clogged up. We replaced it earlier this year, but those Norton stones last a very long time if used correctly.

I don’t find cleanup to be a problem at all. You only need a small amount of oil. You don’t need to keep splashing it on like a water stone. A little goes a long way. My Crystolon is only for serious reprofiling and tip repair, not really for thinning. I have a Debado MD20 for thinning and a Shapton 120 to use as a regular coarse stone. The Crystolon came with a plastic box like the Shaptons that you can use as a holder to work on so you don’t have to worry about getting oil on your regular stone holder.


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 22, 2021)

My Crystolon has arrived. This stone appears to be more,,,,,shall we say "refined" than my old Carborundum stones. 1st impressions; heavy,,,, and I wish it was a little wider, but that's ok. There are no instructions, period. No recommendations for cleaning or flattening, etc. No description of manufacturing contents. That said, I LOVE it. This should be the perfect protector for my Shapton Glass coarse stones, especially when folks bring me knives with badly mushroomed apexes from hammering into frozen foods and bones. I should be able to bring those bevels back to reasonably flat before final re-shaping on the coarse Shaptons (120,220,320)

I'll add also, that there is no trace whatsoever, of oil smell, nor oil residue on the surface of the stone.

The package has an interesting history of Pike Abrasives, dating back to the arrival of the Pilgrims, up to the formation of Pike Abrasives, and eventually becoming Norton Abrasives. The box shows Coarse/Fine, and model JB8. "Pre-oiled and Precision surfaced", Made in Mexico. "Use Norton Oil for best result".

My price here in Canada, was $53.00 CDN. (roughly $41. U.S.)

FWIW, much larger versions of these stones are available (11.5"x 2.5x 1/2"). Those are stones for the Norton Tri-Stone IM313 sharpening system. You can find those on Norton's website, under Specialty System stones. Those are single-grit stones, and are available in Aluminum Oxide, as well as coarse and medium Crystolon stones. Also Fine India, and various Arkansas stones are available for this system.









Norton India Replacement Stone for IM313


This stone is the replacement size for the Norton IM313 sharpening system. Select from Fine and Medium stones.



www.sharpeningsupplies.com


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 22, 2021)

HumbleHomeCook said:


> It'll be around 120/320.



Confirmed,,,the "coarse" is indeed 120, the medium Crystolons are 180, and the fine is 320.


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## jwthaparc (Aug 26, 2021)

TB_London said:


> It’s a silicone carbide stone whereas the Norton India is aluminium oxide. They’re fairly common in UK and are the de facto stones for woodworking.
> Silicone carbide is a hard and sharp abrasive so they can cut for a long time without dulling. I believe Crystolon are a sintered stone so no/minimal binder, and you won’t get as much slurry as you will with a similarly coarse water stone. The Norton are much better than cheaper SiC stones I’ve tried with the Norton less friable and quicker cutting.
> 
> You can try and get the oil out, but easier to just use with mineral oil. Handy to have a bottle for wood chopping boards and it’s pretty cheap.
> ...


Just wanted to add a correction. Silicon carbide is harder like you said. However it actually tends to be more friable than aluminum oxide. So it breaks up and because dull faster than the aluminum oxide would. 

On the other hand silicon carbide can cut harder materials, and also cut steel faster, as long as new abrasive keeps getting released.


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