# Baking Steel for Pizza



## gic

Modernist cuisine has gotten a lot of people interested in using 1/4 to 1/3 A36 carbon steel plates for cooking pizza. (Some people even claim it makes big green egg pizza even better though that is hard to believe :- ) )

A company now sells this "baking steel" although it wouldn't be too hard to wander down to a local metal store and pick up a sheet of what is, after all, ordinary structural steel, I suspect for a lot less.

Anyone try this??


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## Dusty

I haven't, but I have retrofit domestic ovens to increase thermal mass which helps a lot with pizza. Last night I made some frankly pretty good pizza buy pre-heating my thickest cast iron pan and cooking on that - same principle.


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## gic

Yep, Lodge in fact makes a cast iron pan that works pretty darn well

but the claim for the baking steel is that A36 steel transfers heat better than cast iron so works even better...


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## don

I have used the baking steel, and it works. Since you're in the Bay Area, you can borrow mine if you want to try.


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## UCChemE05

For the price, I'm going to stick with my Lodge pizza pan for now. Heat capacities are very similar but the thermal conductivity of cast iron is better. (didn't look much into the TC due to time... different cast irons can seem to vary here) Depending on the cast iron, it can be up to 15% less dense than A53. 

That being said, the lodge unit isn't very thick so it doesn't hold as much heat as the thicker steel plates you can get. 

Good comparison: http://slice.seriouseats.com/archiv...g-steel-lodge-cast-iron-pizza.html?ref=search


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## gic

So here is my crazy idea of the day get 4 8x8 1/2 plates with smooth sides and use those. that way I get the thermal mass I want but the plates weigh about 8 pounds each instead of 30+
Welcome peoples thoughts on this idea


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## EdipisReks

I'm going to pick up the 3/8 version some time, I think. I'm not sure my oven racks will support the big one.


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## Mucho Bocho

I've been using a piece of 1/4 in sheet of carbon steel for about a year now. Before that i used a baking stone and or a large lodge skillet. The carbon steel plate is in another league altogether.

It releases heat very quickly and will be ripping hot to the touch two hours after the oven has been turned off. I heat the oven for 30 minutes at 550. The plate will usually be between 650 to 630 degrees. Will cook a neopolitan pizza in under two minutes

View attachment 18673


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## Zwiefel

EdipisReks said:


> I'm going to pick up the 3/8 version some time, I think. I'm not sure my oven racks will support the big one.



Why not use the floor of the oven?



Mucho Bocho said:


> I've been using a piece of 1/4 in sheet of carbon steel for about a year now. Before that i used a baking stone and or a large lodge skillet. The carbon steel plate is in another league altogether.
> 
> It releases heat very quickly and will be ripping hot to the touch two hours after the oven has been turned off. I heat the oven for 30 minutes at 550. The plate will usually be between 650 to 630 degrees. Will cook a neopolitan pizza in under two minutes



I know you already told me once, but I can't remember....Where did you source your plate?


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## Mucho Bocho

Danny, I bought it locally at an Ironworks company. He only charged me $50 for a 19" X 12" X 1/4. They grinded any rust and deburred the edges. I would estimate it weighs about 30--35lbs.


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## Zwiefel

Mucho Bocho said:


> Danny, I bought it locally at an Ironworks company. He only charged me $50 for a 19" X 12" X 1/4. They grinded any rust and deburred the edges. I would estimate it weighs about 30--35lbs.



Along the lines of what occurred to me: go to a local welding shop. Any guidelines/advice about how to select the right kind of steel? Just ask for "structural, plate steel?"


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## EdipisReks

Zwiefel said:


> Why not use the floor of the oven?



The bottom of my oven is warped, and the pizza would slide off. True story.


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## Zwiefel

EdipisReks said:


> The bottom of my oven is warped, and the pizza would slide off. True story.



hahahahahaha....I mean, WHAT?! 

Just put some shims/bricks under the feet when you want to use the oven, and take them out when you want to use the stovetop. I guess you could split the difference if you need both.

More seriously...maybe you could use some bricks to create a platform for the plate? Might lose a significant amount of usable space though.


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## gic

a36 standard structural steel


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## Zwiefel

Perfect! Thanks.



gic said:


> a36 standard structural steel


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## Mucho Bocho

Gic, Right on. I couldn't remember it and wat thinkit it wa 8A but I believe A36 it it. Another interesting thing about this material is that it doesn't stain or change color at all when cooked on. I just washed the plate, rubbed a very light coat of saffour oil and bvrought it to full temp then cooled it.


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## apathetic

Great thread! I was curious about this as well 
@Mucho Bocho: Can you make more than one pizza in a row once the plate is heated?
Also, you say it doesn;t stain, does that mean you didn't need to season it?


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## Mucho Bocho

Ap, Yea it doesn't stain and I really didn't do anything more than to it other than washed it with hot water and soap, rubbed it with a table spoon of high heat oil on a paper towel. The coating was really really light. Then I put it in the oven full crank. Like I said I've had it for a year or so and have made bread, pizza and scones. Its virtually a non-stick surface. One time I put too much on the pizza and the crust was too low so the cheese, sauce and toppings came over the crust wall and spilled out on the bare metal. I used a pizza scraper to get the spillage back on to the pie. Not only did the toppings and cheese not stick, but it didn't even leave a stain on the steel. I don't flip it either as with all the cooking i've done, I still cant tell the top from the bottom. 

You can do pizza's till the cow come home. You can load them as fast as you can make them. But you can only cook one pizza at a time. 

Here is my feble attempt at making baquetts. My crumb could be better but the steel plate reall came through as you can see.


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## apathetic

Thanks for the pics & explanations!
I would have thought that the plate would cool down too much to be able to do more than one or two pizza in a row. Impressed with how non stick it is with no need for seasoning as well.
I am going to look into making one.


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## apicius9

Very nice. I never got around to buying stones, maybe I'll find a metal plate out here somewhere. Looks like there will be issues with shipping the prefabricated ones out here, I may have to follow up on that. 

Stefan


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## EdipisReks

Zwiefel said:


> hahahahahaha....I mean, WHAT?!
> 
> Just put some shims/bricks under the feet when you want to use the oven, and take them out when you want to use the stovetop. I guess you could split the difference if you need both.
> 
> More seriously...maybe you could use some bricks to create a platform for the plate? Might lose a significant amount of usable space though.



Bricks might work, but I'd have to reconfigure stuff a lot, and I'm not sure it's worth it over just getting the 3/8 and keeping it on the rack at all times (like I do with my cordierite stone, currently).


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## Marko Tsourkan

Looks pretty cool.

Anybody on the forum got a business idea of making these metal plates and offering them to the community?

I wold love to get my hands on one (preferably inexpensively). Need to talk to Aldo, but I doubt 30lb of carbon steel in 1/4 will cost $50.

M


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## JMJones

Next up Damascus


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## mhlee

I have the Baking Steel, the original thickness. It does stain. One of the reasons why I bought this is because (1) I didn't want to go the DIY route where I don't know the source of the steel, (2) didn't want to buy a plain sheet of steel and have to resort to some method to remove mill scale, and (3) buying from a company that backs the product. This is a great product in my experience. 

If you're going to use something like this, you shouldn't be cooking a pizza on the bottom shelf of the oven as you will not get enough radiant cooking to cook the top of the pizza as fast as the bottom. Because the steel has so much thermal mass, once it's up to temp, it cooks pizzas anywhere from 4 to 6 minutes depending on the thinness/thickness of my dough. On the bottom of the oven, you'll never cook the toppings as quickly as the bottom. I actually put my Baking Steel on the second to highest rack of my oven, or highest rack. I've tried every rack height in my oven. The highest ones work best. (You can use the broiler method to cook the top, but that's another story, and still, based on my experience, if you're cooking a pizza on the bottom of the oven, and using the broiler method, you're still likely not going to cook the top as quickly as the bottom.)


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## JohnnyChance

What temp oven are you using when cooking w the steel plate?


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## mhlee

JohnnyChance said:


> What temp oven are you using when cooking w the steel plate?



My oven dial goes to 550 - I have a DCS gas range which has been pretty accurate. But, for the Baking Steel, I'll preheat the steel for 30 minutes, and then run the broiler for another ten minutes with the Baking Steel on the second highest rack before putting a pizza on it.

I just got a laser thermometer, so the next time I do it, I'll message you with the actual steel temp.


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## gic

I was going to get the baking steel but decided I want a 16x16 which fits comfortably in my oven. I also wanted 3/8" so getting it from a steel place seems like the route to go. In my case my house contractor was willing to get it for me as he deals with the local steel place a lot and I assume he will get a really good price for me. As soon as he gets around to doing it I'll report back on how hard the mill scale is to get off. But from what I read we should be pretty good at it, as it seems to be rather like an overgrown patina- atleast according to Wikipedia:

"Mill scale, often shortened to just scale, is the flaky surface of hot rolled steel, iron oxides consisting of iron(II,III) oxide, hematite, and magnetite.

Mill scale is formed on the outer surfaces of plates, sheets or profiles when they are being produced by rolling red hot iron or steel billets in rolling mills. Mill scale is composed of iron oxides mostly ferric and is bluish black in color. It is usually less than 1 mm (0.039 in) thick and initially adheres to the steel surface and protects it from atmospheric corrosion provided no break occurs in this coating."


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## Marko Tsourkan

I will give Aldo (NJ Steel baron) a call tomorrow. He gets steel in sheets, so hopefully he has right thickness. W could cut to size, deburr and grind scales off on a wide belt grinder. 

Will report tomorrow.


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## gic

For those who are interested, I looked up on the web the weight per square foot of a36 steel...

10.3 (1/4)

12.8 (5/16)

15.4 (3/8)

20.5 (1/2)

so my 16x16 in 3/8 should come in at right around a manageable 24lbs


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## Marko Tsourkan

Would it not make more sense to have the plate round? My oven can accommodate 15.75" round or 15.75"x18" square.


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## Mucho Bocho

Marko, Sure you could make a round plate. I wanted rectangular because its more forgiving when you're sliding pizza's off the peel.


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## Marko Tsourkan

on a second thought, I think you are right, as rectangular gives more surface. 

What peel are you using? Any preferences on what wood the peel is made of?


M


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## Mucho Bocho

Marko, I'm a wood peel (cheap pine) kinda guy. I like to be able to sand them to make them smooth. 

gic, I know that so many time in life a little must be good so over kill must be even better--right. Not always. Their is no real advantage to getting a plate thicker than 1/4 inch. It will only take longer to heat (specific heat over time), heavier to move and more expensive. Just becuase its thicker doesn't mean its going to perform any better? 

I heat my oven on convection to 550 for 30 minutes w/ infrared thermo. temp gets between 650 and 630. Like Mike Lee said, I cook my pizza's in the top third of the oven. Before I put the pizza in, I shut off convection. Also, I don't do the broilier thing, and with the thickness of my pizzas (very very thin), even with generous topings, they cook in about 2 minutes.


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## Marko Tsourkan

3/8" thick might be an alternative for those who are dead-set on the heavier one. It will add 50% to the weight of 1/4" thick, so 14x16" will be approximately 22lb, 15.75x18" ~ 30LB. I think the rack should handle the weight fine, as long as you keep it static with the plate on and load your pizza with a peel. Pulling it out to load or remove the pizza might put a strain on it. 

The advantage of a thicker plate is that it will keep the temperate better once it got up to the temperature. I don't think it will make *that* much of a difference over 1/4, but even a small difference is a difference nevertheless. Thicker stock is also less prone to warping. 

I have seen adler used for wood peels. Any other species? 

M


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## don

I have the 1/2" Baking Steel and should have gotten a thinner one. At 30#s, it's quite unwieldy getting in and out of the oven. However, I'm happy with the performance.


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## Mucho Bocho

Don, Sounds like you got the Work Horse steel plate. If thats the case, I guess you could call my Steel Plate a LASER ;-) 

Works for me cause thats exactly how I like my knives. Thin, nimble but perform like a mofo.





don said:


> I have the 1/2" Baking Steel and should have gotten a thinner one. At 30#s, it's quite unwieldy getting in and out of the oven. However, I'm happy with the performance.


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## Marko Tsourkan

Mucho Bocho said:


> Don, Sounds like you got the Work Horse steel plate. If thats the case, I guess you could call my Steel Plate a LASER ;-)
> 
> Works for me cause thats exactly how I like my knives. Thin, nimble but perform like a mofo.



Can you observe any warpage from all this time you have been using it?


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## don

Lol. I thought I needed a workhorse steel, but a laser would indeed have been more fitting. In knives, I also gravitate towards thinner knives.


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## don

Marko Tsourkan said:


> Can you observe any warpage from all this time you have been using it?



No warpage that I can discern, and my steel lives in the oven. I routinely bake bread so the steel sees 500 degrees at least once a week. Have had the baking steel since end of January.


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## Mucho Bocho

Marko, Warpage? The thing is a 1/4 thick X 19 X 14. Its a bohemith, plus my oven only goes to 550 degree. Its flat, flat, flat. I'm going to take some pics tonight. this post need more pics.

As of note, I do remove the plate when I'm using the oven unless I'm cooking something long and slow, which I never do anymore cause I'm into sous Vide now. I realise that it increases the thermal mass of the oven but it like I said earlier, takes days to cool the plate down. 



Marko Tsourkan said:


> Can you observe any warpage from all this time you have been using it?


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## apathetic

Mucho Bocho said:


> Its flat, flat, flat. I'm going to take some pics tonight. this post need more pics.



More pics can never hurt :thumbsup:

To those knowledgeable: is A36 structured steel the best option, or is there any point in using something else like say pure iron as used in the Debuyer mineral pans? Or anything else for that matter?


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## Mucho Bocho

Pics as promised 






I have other files but the uploader sucks. Does anybody else have problems uploading files? Sometime it works sometime it doesn't. I had a pic of the steel in the oven but it wont upload.


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## El Pescador

Just priced a carbon steel 1/2", 18" diameter from my local metal supply shop-$48


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## EdipisReks

El Pescador said:


> Just priced a carbon steel 1/2", 18" diameter from my local metal supply shop-$48



is that dressed, or just raw slab? if it's dressed, i think i'll find a local metal supply shop in Cincinnati.


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## Marko Tsourkan

I spoke to Aldo at NJ Steel Baron. He has 1018 in 1/4 with 15.75" width. I will call him on Monday for the price. 1018 has better surface finish than A36 steel and he said he would finish the steel to 320 grit I think.

A36, followed by 1018 are the least expensive options. Everything up from there will be more money without much advantage. 

M


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## Bill13

Marko,

Thanks for getting us this info!


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## UCChemE05

I thought this is kind of cool...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/250320055/great-wok-kamado-grill-conversion-kit

Could use the griddle for in the oven then take it out to the grill when needed. I'm going to measure my Kamado and order one of these kits... this will kill two birds with one stone for me.


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## apicius9

Just reviving this old corpse because I finally got around to getting a local estimate for a baking steel 16x16x3/8: $220 - everything is a little more expensive in Hawaii. Seeing that I get a 15x15x1 on Amazon for $100ish shipped they told me to buy it there... 

Stefan


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## mikemac

How much would this be shipped to HI?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000E1FDA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Bill13

apicius9 said:


> Just reviving this old corpse because I finally got around to getting a local estimate for a baking steel 16x16x3/8: $220 - everything is a little more expensive in Hawaii. Seeing that I get a 15x15x1 on Amazon for $100ish shipped they told me to buy it there...
> 
> Stefan



Did you see that the co making these are coming out with a 3/8 version with a juice groove? See serious eats. I called them and they promised it would be out 1st qtr.


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## EdipisReks

I have the regular Modernist Cuisine baking steel, and I love it. I'm planning on also getting the griddle version, that Bill13 mentions, as I do think it will be kickass for steak. Between my BellaCopper 10" copper plates and the putative Baking Steel Griddle, I think I'll have about maxed out my plain Jane home gas range.


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## Chifunda

EdipisReks said:


> I have the regular Modernist Cuisine baking steel, and I love it.



lus1:


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## apicius9

Cheapest shipping on the Modernist steel is $58, so I will probably go for the one on Amazon. Reg. the juice groove: Does that mean I could use it in or on the stove for steaks and turn it around to a smooth surface to be used for pizza? I guess nobody knows at this time, but that would make it even more attractive. I hesitate to order in a stone, because the way out here is long and chances are it arrives in pieces. BTW, as opposed to many other companies, Amazon includes Hawaii in their free shipping policy for most things, so being a prime member there easily pays off for us. I buy local if I can, but if not, Amazon is the first place to look because of that. 

Stefan


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## EdipisReks

Yep, steaks on one side and pizza on the other is exactly what it's for. 

Here is a review of the prototype: http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/04/the-food-lab-the-new-reversible-baking-steelg.html


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## Bill13

The cost in the article was 160. In the email to me it was mentioned that the price is not firm. I am hoping it will be less as there was a lot of complaining in the comments section that the cost increase did not seem proportional to the additional (assumed) manufacturing costs. I think it will come in at 149.99.


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## apicius9

No real news, but this is the info I got:

"The Baking Steel griddle 2.0 is set to be released sometime in the first quarter of 2015! It will be 18"x14" with a 3/8" thickness."

I ordered a 3/8" x 14" x 16" from a competitor (saves $50 in shipping...) but only because patience is not one of my virtues... Will be my parents' christmas present. But I definitely plan ro keep an eye on the griddle steel, sounds like the perfect allround solution for lots of different things.

Quick question on wooden peels - do you treat them with oil or board butter? I assume that would lower the risk of them splitting? I added the JK Adams one to my order since I have not made it to the local restaurant supply place within the past year to pick one up. What ever did we do before Amazon?

Stefan


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## Zwiefel

apicius9 said:


> What ever did we do before Amazon?



wasted vast amounts of time on menial activities, using sub-par products, with sub-par knowledge, getting 3rd order results...?

Or maybe we just had better relationships with people in our communities.


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## apicius9

Zwiefel said:


> wasted vast amounts of time on menial activities, using sub-par products, with sub-par knowledge, getting 3rd order results...?
> 
> Or maybe we just had better relationships with people in our communities.



Maybe. But I tried. I am more than happy to pay a bit more to buy locally, but locally made by people who do it the first time for $220 versus positively rated on Amazon for $94 shipped? Sorry, that's a difference I have to pass on... We'll see.

Stefan


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## mikemac

apicius9 said:


> ...Quick question on wooden peels - do you treat them with oil or board butter? I assume that would lower the risk of them splitting? I added the JK Adams one to my order since I have not made it to the local restaurant supply place within the past year to pick one up. What ever did we do before Amazon? Stefan



Currently I have two peels (no-name, restaurant supply bought) and pretty sure one is over 10 years old. Never treated, and never had/seen a splitting or cracking issue. They live in L.A., which is hot dry desert, and spent some time in the high desert. They get used between 10- 15 times a year. Hope that helps


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## Bill13

mikemac said:


> Currently I have two peels (no-name, restaurant supply bought) and pretty sure one is over 10 years old. Never treated, and never had/seen a splitting or cracking issue. They live in L.A., which is hot dry desert, and spent some time in the high desert. They get used between 10- 15 times a year. Hope that helps



I live in DC where it can be pretty dry in the winter and swamp like in the summer. Our wooden peel has been great with no special treatment except drying after washing it (we serve and cut the pizza on it). Used every Friday night for about 12 years:biggrin:

The Pizza Bible book was my wife's Christmas gift. Outstanding book!


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## mise_en_place

I got the Baking Steel as a gift and I love it (and I am a pizza snob). Great for bread, too.

The lift you get on the dough is incredible.


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## Chifunda

apicius9 said:


> Quick question on wooden peels - do you treat them with oil or board butter? I assume that would lower the risk of them splitting? I added the JK Adams one to my order since I have not made it to the local restaurant supply place within the past year to pick one up. What ever did we do before Amazon?
> 
> Stefan



Stefan,

I've had the JK Adams peel from Amazon for well over a year now and have found it to be excellent. I'm especially fond of the way the leading edge is tapered so that it slips easily under a pie when turning or removing it from the oven. 

When I first received mine I gave it a good coat of mineral oil and have not felt the need to do so again. I never wet it, simply brush it off and hang it from a hook in the pantry.


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## apicius9

Thanks for the infos, gents, looks like I should be all set once the steel and peel come in. The pizza bible is on my Amazon wish list. Looking forward to playing with this, pizza, baguette, and other bread variations are on my 2015-resolutions list. 

Stefan


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## 99Limited

Mucho Bocho said:


> ... I heat the oven for 30 minutes at 550. The plate will usually be between 650 to 630 degrees.



How does your plate get 100° hotter than the oven supplying only 550° heat. :scratchhead:

I guess ovens settle into a +/- target heat level, but I would think it would over heat by 80° to 100°.


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## Mucho Bocho

99, the steel climbs way above the actual temp of the oven. If you IR gun a well heated pan, you'll see the temperature to be considerably higher that the temp of the oven. I'm conjecting but suspect that the increase in pan surface temperature delta is exponentially related to oven temp.


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## apicius9

So, if I have a baking steel and put something like a cast iron pan on top of it, will the pan heat up higher than it would without the steel? Just wondering whether this would be a way to do steaks on a very hot surface right under the broiler. Once the reversible steel comes out, this will be a moot point...

Stefan


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## 99Limited

I don't eat pizza very often maybe twice a year. I could see sticking one of these steels in the oven to moderate the temperature swings. Maybe make your oven a little bit more energy efficient too. I used to do that with a pizza stone until it got lost two moves ago.


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## apicius9

First one on the steel. Many mistakes were made, but it tasted great and was noticeably faster and crisper than before. I had a look at the pizzamaking.com forum - these guys are all obsessed and crazy about ridiculous details. It's as if we here would talk about steel characteristics and blade geometry. Oh, wait.... &#128513; Anyway, much to learn and Inlook forward to a tasty journey. 

Stefan


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## Mucho Bocho

Looks great Stefan.


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## daveb

I would eat that. Smiley.


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## CoqaVin

Stefan RUSTIC!, this one place I worked where they made traditional Neopolitan pizzas, if you made one too round he HATED it


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## Bill13

What are the toppings ( besides the schrooms)?


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## apicius9

Thanks guys. Ham and mushrooms, tomato sauce and mozzarella on this one. I agree with the rustic look, don't have the ambition to get it perfectly round, but definitely need more practice. This one I eventually rolled out because I got impatient - it was late and I had skipped lunch... And the dough was a bit off also. Will try again with a little more preparation this weekend. 

Stefan


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## Chifunda

Stefan,

Looks like you're well on your way to pizza nirvana. Now all it takes is practice, practice, practice. When I was first bitten by the bug, we ate pizza twice a day for weeks.:happymug:

For what it's worth, here's my standard dough recipe For NY style pizza. Mixing directions are based on use of a Bosch Compact mixer. And do try to avoid rolling out your dough...it wastes all those lovely gas bubbles the yeast has been working so hard to create. If your dough is fighting you, cover it with a towel and let it rest.

12 1/2" Lehmann New York Style Dough
Pizza
source Lehmann Calculator
INGREDIENTS

211 grams bread flour (100%)
133 grams water (63%)
¼ tsp IDY (.3%)
3/4 tsp sea salt (2%)
1 tsp olive oil (1.5%)
3/4 tsp sugar (1.75%)
DIRECTIONS

1) Add water, salt, and sugar to the mixing bowl and stir until solids are dissolved. Add olive oil.

2) Measure flour into a separate bowl, add yeast and stir until combined.

3) Add flour/yeast mixture to the liquid ingredients and mix on speed two until combined.

4) Allow dough to rest for 5 minutes.

5) Using dough hook, mix on speed 1 for 6 minutes.

6 ) Form into a tight ball, oil and place into a bowl which has been sprayed with Pam. Cover and refrigerate for at least 24 hours, preferably 48. Allow to come to room temp. (~1 1/2 hours) before stretching.

Enjoy the journey!


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## boomchakabowwow

apicius9 said:


> So, if I have a baking steel and put something like a cast iron pan on top of it, will the pan heat up higher than it would without the steel? Just wondering whether this would be a way to do steaks on a very hot surface right under the broiler. Once the reversible steel comes out, this will be a moot point...
> 
> Stefan



i think the steel, being way denser than air is hotter, as with all the metal bits inside the oven. the air temp, with air being less dense than the steel is only 500..it's why you can stick you hand inside a hot oven, but if you touched that pan..ssssss!

i could be wrong, my brain is already in "friday" mode.


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## ImpossibleGermany

I've got the ME edition - I think it can make some pretty darn good pizza (and pita bread and things like that), in my oven that probably peaks out at about 460f (without any tweaking, like loading the bottom with extra pans and stuff).

This was from my first attempt at using it:

http://thelondiniumproject.com/2014/09/13/una-pizza-napolitana-a-londra/


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## Talim

boomchakabowwow said:


> i think the steel, being way denser than air is hotter, as with all the metal bits inside the oven. the air temp, with air being less dense than the steel is only 500..it's why you can stick you hand inside a hot oven, but if you touched that pan..ssssss!
> 
> i could be wrong, my brain is already in "friday" mode.



Actually, if it's a closed system and given enough time, then everything inside would be at the same temperature including the air. If all you did was put the cast iron in the same system then eventually it too will be at the same temp as everything else in the oven.


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## mark76

Is there anyone from Europe here reading this? I wonder where in Europe I could get such a baking steel.


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## Chifunda

Crappy iPad2 photo, but a recent pie with kalamata olives, sweet onions, and fresh basil over mozzarella and Asiago cheese. Sauce is 6 in 1 ground tomatoes straight from the can. Baked on 3/8" Modernist Cuisine steel at 550* for about 4 1/2 minutes.

And no, they don't all come out this round.

http://[URL=http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/Chifunda/media/imagejpg1.jpg.html]

[/URL]


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## Mucho Bocho

Ok You've inspired me to get my steel out. I don't think I've used it in a year. I've got Chifundas dough rising in the refrigerator for tomorrow's lunch. Portuguese Pizza pics to follow


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## Mucho Bocho

Ok We just finished making and eating them. I made two batches of Chifunda's dough. Let it sit 24hrs, then on the counter for 1.5hrs before touching it. I did not realize that this dough could not be rolled out with the hands. The Neapolitan pizza I'm used to making get stretched out by hand, ya know tossing them about and such. As soon as I tried stretching out the crust I had formed, the dough just cracked in half. So, I rolled out the second batch. It came out ok, but I like my crust cracker thin and this was more doughy than that. Thanks for inspiring me to break out the steel again.


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## Mucho Bocho




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## Chifunda

Mucho Bocho said:


> I did not realize that this dough could not be rolled out with the hands. The Neapolitan pizza I'm used to making get stretched out by hand, ya know tossing them about and such. As soon as I tried stretching out the crust I had formed, the dough just cracked in half. .



Huh? That's a mystery to me. I stretch that dough on the counter top, stretch it with my fists and occasionally toss it and have never had a problem like that. In fact I made a pie last night and the dough stretched like a dream :scratchhead:

I checked the recipe I posted against my notes and it's accurate, so I'm at a loss as to what happened. When you finished kneading the dough, did it feel like fairly soft bread dough? Should be slightly tacky, but not sticky. Was the gluten fully developed? Maybe try the windowpane test?

I've refrigerated my dough from one to three days and have found two days to be the sweet spot for me but I don't really think that's the problem. Be curious to hear how it goes if you try it again. Glad you got back in the game.


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## Chifunda

MB

Here's a margarita made with my recipe and as you can see, it's definitely not been rolled out. My apologies for the lousy images. Now have an air2 and the camera is definitely better.

http://[URL=http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/Chifunda/media/imagejpg1-1.jpg.html]

[/URL]


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## Zwiefel

You guys are making me hungry for pizza and I have no idea where to get a truly good one in the metroplex.


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## sudsy9977

I couldn't find nothing online about this new reversible griddle/baking steel...anybody know when it's coming out...ryan


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## 99Limited

Mucho Bocho said:


> View attachment 25964



Now that's what I consider a PIZZA. :hungry:


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## apicius9

sudsy9977 said:


> I couldn't find nothing online about this new reversible griddle/baking steel...anybody know when it's coming out...ryan




They told me in an email 'first quarter of this year'. 

Stefan


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## foodchem70

sounds great, ths a lot.


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## menzaremba

I had a steel plasma cut to fit in my oven. Pre-heat for an hour on broil, use Jim Lahey's dough (minus a little salt). Results are excellent. Definitely going to borrow some ideas from this thread. Thanks!


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## apicius9

Chifunda said:


> ....
> 
> 12 1/2" Lehmann New York Style Dough
> Pizza
> source Lehmann Calculator
> INGREDIENTS
> 
> 211 grams bread flour (100%)
> 133 grams water (63%)
> ¼ tsp IDY (.3%)
> 3/4 tsp sea salt (2%)
> 1 tsp olive oil (1.5%)
> 3/4 tsp sugar (1.75%)
> DIRECTIONS
> 
> 1) Add water, salt, and sugar to the mixing bowl and stir until solids are dissolved. Add olive oil.
> 
> 2) Measure flour into a separate bowl, add yeast and stir until combined.
> 
> 3) Add flour/yeast mixture to the liquid ingredients and mix on speed two until combined.
> 
> 4) Allow dough to rest for 5 minutes.
> 
> 5) Using dough hook, mix on speed 1 for 6 minutes.
> 
> 6 ) Form into a tight ball, oil and place into a bowl which has been sprayed with Pam. Cover and refrigerate for at least 24 hours, preferably 48. Allow to come to room temp. (~1 1/2 hours) before stretching.
> 
> Enjoy the journey!




Quick questions here before I get the next batch started:

1) Is it better to let that sit in bulk or can I separate it right away into smaller containers if I make enough for 3 or 4 pies?

2) I got some Caputo 00 flour, should I just go with the same hydration?

3) Is the sugar essential in this? I will stick with it for now, just wondering. 

I guess we will see if the KitchedAid can handle 4x this recipe...

Thanks, 

Stefan


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## Chifunda

apicius9 said:


> Quick questions here before I get the next batch started:
> 
> 1) Is it better to let that sit in bulk or can I separate it right away into smaller containers if I make enough for 3 or 4 pies?
> 
> 2) I got some Caputo 00 flour, should I just go with the same hydration?
> 
> 3) Is the sugar essential in this? I will stick with it for now, just wondering.
> 
> I guess we will see if the KitchedAid can handle 4x this recipe...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Stefan



1) I've doubled the recipe and formed two separate dough balls without any problems, so I don't see why not.

2) never used Caputo 00 but from what little I understand about it, it's a different critter from regular King Arthur or Better for Bread flours. Once again, I'm no authority, but it seems to be used for Neopolitan style pizzas that are baked at higher temperatures than most of us get in our home ovens. Much information on it at pizzamaking.com, probably more than you really want to know.

3) The sugar gives the yeast something to eat, which really isn't essential in pizza dough, but it also aids in browning. That's why I like to use a little. 

Good luck, and please post some pics.


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## Chifunda

This young lady is wearing a Caputo flour sack. Perhaps she can help you.

http://[URL=http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/Chifunda/media/IMG_0354.jpg.html]

[/URL]


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## ImpossibleGermany

I am in London, but wanted one so badly that I paid the VAT and shipping (ugh - the thing is HEAVY) to have it shipped from the US. I've used it often enough that I think it's about paying for itself, considering what a good pizza would cost in these parts (if one can find it!).


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## EdipisReks

Chifunda said:


> but it also aids in browning. that's why I like to use a little.



I like to add a little powdered milk, for the same reason.


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## apicius9

So much to learn... This time I used Chifunda's dough. When I made it I thought it a little sticky, it was ok and workable after 24h but I may add a touch more flour the next time. Taste is great, so thanks! Stretching it was much easier this time after the dough had rested and risen 3h out of the fridge. This is still too exciting for me, though (shows you how boring my normal life is  ) - I had set up everything en place so I could work fast, still managed to forget the salt and the final spritz of olive oil. On the heated steel and directly under the broiler for about 4 1/2 minutes this time. It looked good but was a bit soggy in the middle - next time less tomato (Cento San Marzano with basil straight from the can, cut into chunks) and one minute longer in the oven which should also help the cheese to cook a little more. The basil leaves look kind of ugly, probably will oil them a bit next time. So many variables to juggle but a lot learned. I will keep the dough and the baking method constant for the next trials and vary the sauce and the baking time. In any case, it tasted great 

Stefan


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## Chifunda

Looks mighty good to me, Stefan! What flour did you use?

You mention that the dough was a bit sticky...I always knead my dough by hand for a minute or so after it comes out of the mixer. Gives me a chance to work a little more flour into it if I feel it's needed. And if you can stand the wait, try letting your dough rise in the fridge for two full days. I find it has even better flavor and is easier to stretch.

One more suggestion, add you basil when the pie comes out of the oven. It wilts nicely and doesn't get dried out. Keep up the good work!:thumbsup:


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## Mucho Bocho

Chifunda, There could have been lots of reason that your recipe didn't work for me. Probably my doing not the recipe but I'm going to go back to my modernist recipe using Caputo, micro encapsulated levener and bubbly wine. No yeast.

Stefan, looks nice, for a better presentation, next time, add the basil leaves to the pizza after it comes out of the oven.


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## Chifunda

Where are you good people getting Caputo 00?


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## apicius9

Thanks for the tips. I made triple the recipe and have to sacrifice myself and eat more pizza today and tomorrow to see how the dough develops  This time I used King Arthur AP flour, will try Caputo 00 next, but I also read it might need higher temperatures. If not for pizza, I can use it for pasta. Available on Amazon, I did not find 00 flour locally. Forgot to measure the temp this time. But that can be a bit of an issue - heating the oven to 550F for over an hour in Hawaiian climate results in a pretty hot kitchen 

Stefan


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## Chifunda

apicius9 said:


> ...heating the oven to 550F for over an hour in Hawaiian climate results in a pretty hot kitchen
> Stefan



Ditto in South Carolina.


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## James

First decent looking pizza coming off of my baking steel.

Here are my dough ratios for anyone interested 

320 g bread flour (king arthur)
220 g water
1 tsp olive oil
1.5 tsp active dry yeast
1 tsp salt
pinch of sugar (to get the yeast started)

Wake the yeast up and get them going in the 110 F water with a pinch of sugar for about 15 min, mix salt and flour together, dump everything together, mix and knead until elastic. Rest it for ~ 5 hours and then use it.


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## apicius9

That looks great, James. Well, I had to eat pizza again tonight. But definitely a step forward:

- 2-day rested dough worked great
- cooked down the tomatoes and added s&p, a pinch of cayenne and a splash of balsamico, I really liked it but still used a bit much.
- baked for 6 minutes, perfect 'leoparding' in the bottom
- added basil right after taking it out.

Very likely the best-tasting basic pizza I ever made. Pushed it together a bit during loading, but overall I am happy with the progress on the taste side. Thanks again for all your tips! Will make a few more to get the basics down before I play with variations of tomatoes, cheeses etc. 

Stefan


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## Chifunda

Good looking pie, James! What are the toppings?

Think I'll try your dough formulation for those days when my wife wants pizza TONIGHT. She loves our 48 hour crust but sometimes feels delayed gratification is highly over rated. I make your hydration out to be almost 69%; do you have any trouble handling the dough?


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## Chifunda

Stefan,

I think you've got it.:doublethumbsup:


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## James

Looks delicious Stefan! The toppings are pepperoni, green peppers, broccoli and a little bit of basil; the basil was a bit of a waste since the pepperoni completely overpowered the flavor, but live and learn I guess. It definitely needs a bit of kneading to make it work due to initial stickiness. I do roll the dough in some flour before letting it rise and flour it again while stretching it out so that helps tremendously.


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## Roger

Cooked in less than 5 minutes. I really like my custom cut stones !


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## apicius9

I made Chifunda's dough again, kneaded it a bit longer in the KA and a couple of minutes by hand and it looked and felt fantastic. I had bought these pyrex containers so that I could portion the dough before I stick it in the fridge. Well, I guess 4 cups was not enough.... The last time the dough had not risen that dramatically even out of the fridge. The picture shows the dough after 36h in the fridge. Guess I should have checked it earlier... Cutting off the dried dough that lifted the lids and then hope the dough will taste as great as it looks and proofs...

Stefan


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## apicius9

Poke pizza. I'll just mix poi under the dough for the next one, and if that tastes just as good, I'll open a store and become rich and famous


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## Bill13

Stefan,

Those look great!

I'm patiently waiting for the model with the groove to come out, better be soon or these pic's are going to make me just go ahead and order the original:hungry:.


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## daveb

Stefan, If you can make Poi fit to eat you should be rich and famous:cool2:


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## Mucho Bocho

Stefan is that fish on your pizza? Is that some kinda Hawaiian German thing? &#128516;


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## apicius9

Stepping up the game: just received this beautiful baking board in 20"x28" and this 16" round board. Nothing can stop me now from baking pizza and other things  Thanks to David the Boardsmith for another great example of his work. 

Stefan


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## Bill13

Love the fact that the walnut? has no sapwood. Very nice!!


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## apicius9

Ok. Now that I have a kitchen again, back to this. Any suggestions for dough recipes? Flours? I like the 'purity' of the Neapolitan pizzas but - for now - have to live with the basic 550F home oven. Not sure if that means I should rather look at the NY style doughs? Still in the early experimental stages, I guess... Picked up some KA all purpose flour but I have an Italian grocery a block away and could get alternatives there. Would it make sense to combine flours, e.g. AP with an Italian '00' flour? Planning on fermenting the dough in the fridge for a day or two; best baking results so far with the baking steel and the broiler added for the last 1-2 minutes if needed. 

Let's get this going again... 

Stefan


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## malexthekid

I use a simple recipe. 

600g flour
Packet of yeast
Pinch of caster sugar 
60ml oil
375ml of warm water
Pinch of salt

Combine water yeast and sugar, leave for 5 minutes.

Put flour salt in mixer bowl with dough hook and make a well. Then add yeast mixture and but on medium (i use 2 on my kitchenaid) for 8 to 10 minutes. 

Then knead for a few min until nice and smooth. Put in an oiled bowl until doubled in size and bang.

Simple but effective.


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## rami_m

malexthekid said:


> I use a simple recipe.
> 
> 600g flour
> Packet of yeast
> Pinch of caster sugar
> 60ml oil
> 375ml of warm water
> Pinch of salt
> 
> Combine water yeast and sugar, leave for 5 minutes.
> 
> Put flour salt in mixer bowl with dough hook and make a well. Then add yeast mixture and but on medium (i use 2 on my kitchenaid) for 8 to 10 minutes.
> 
> Then knead for a few min until nice and smooth. Put in an oiled bowl until doubled in size and bang.
> 
> Simple but effective.



Let me try that next time.


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## daveb

Another reason to own a BGE or Komado. Get that thing ripping and you've got a clay, albeit smallish, pizza oven.


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## brianh

daveb said:


> Another reason to own a BGE or Komado. Get that thing ripping and you've got a clay, albeit smallish, pizza oven.



+1. I've done a bunch of pizza on my BGE at about 650F. Even store bought dough comes out chewy and crispy.


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## Artichoke

I used to use my BGE for pizza but I had a tendency to overshoot the target. I recently went to a steel shop and had them cut a piece of 1/4" plate to fit my oven - it was about $24 out the door.

I now have control over the heat. I heat it to 500 degrees for 60-90 minutes. I turn it to broil just after putting the pizza in and that seems to work out about right.

My dough recipe:

11.2 ounces of AP flour
1.5 teaspoons sugar
1 teaspoon salt
3/4 teaspoon active dry yeast
1 tablespoon olive oil
7 ounces warm water

Mix in stand mixer with dough hook for four minutes, let rest for 15 minutes then 2-4 minutes more in the mixer.

Let rest at room temp. for 30 minutes in a ziplock bag (inside coated with olive oil) then into the refrigerator for 24-48 hours. I take it out and let come up to room temp for about two hours before using.


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## Mucho Bocho

Art, Well done Sir.


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## daveb

Overshoot who? 

(Not every time is a winner but I'm doing better than 50/50 now)


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## Artichoke

daveb said:


> Overshoot who?
> 
> (Not every time is a winner but I'm doing better than 50/50 now)



Very nice! 

Sometimes I would nail it and sometimes the bottom was smoking BAD before the top was even close.

There were times that mine seemed like it was a million degrees hotter than the surface of the sun. LOL


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## Aleque

Artichoke said:


> I used to use my BGE for pizza but I had a tendency to overshoot the target. I recently went to a steel shop and had them cut a piece of 1/4" plate to fit my oven - it was about $24 out the door.



Did you clean the plate in any way? season it? I think I just got inspired to buy a large metal plate for my oven too! 

Also, I'm a little envious of everyone that has a BGE on here. When I move out of my apartment I'll need to look into getting one of those. I make pizza more frequently than just about any other meal, and I think the biggest "Ahh Ha!" moment for me was reading in Ken Forkishs' book "Flour Water Salt Yeast" where he mentions superheating your pizza stone with the broiler for 5 minutes or so before adding the pizza in. I always suffered from gooey bottom in the middle and this solved it. 

Also I read in Ken's new book on pizza "The Art of Pizza" that depending on your oven temp the hydration of you dough should be different. He mentions that wood fired pizza ovens which reach 900 degrees or more use a much more hydrated dough (80% hydration or so) while for the home cook that has a standard oven, a lower hydration should be used since the pizza isn't cooking as quickly. I found this to be true while making pizza from bread doughs that were highly hydrated.


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## Artichoke

I washed it with warm soapy water and called it good. Nothing sticks to it.


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## aboynamedsuita

You could also clean the metal with acetone to remove any trace cutting or shop oils but would still recommend to wash with soap & water


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## PieMan

Here's mine, I only use Cast Iron.

Add activated yeast, 1 tablespoon of bread making flour and 100ml of 30C water in a bowl, mix, leave for a few minutes.

Mix together 4 tablespoons of olive oil, pinch of salt, another 150ml of 30C water in a bowl, throw the yeast mixture in

Keep adding flour until you get a nice not-sticky dough, put it on the bench top, knead it for 5 minutes, put it back into the bowl, cover and let rest for 8 hours.

2 hours before cooking, oil up a cast iron skillet and place the now risen dough into it. Punch the dough down, let rise for a further two hours.

Blast the oven up to 250C. Punch the dough down into the skillet, add your toppings (Usually a Creme Fraiche base works best here but that's because I prefer it), place the skillet, cold, into the oven and blast that sucker for 10 minutes.

Serve. Have never had a issue with unbaked centres.


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