# My First Japanese Gyuto for professional use



## Rory Shannon (Apr 20, 2019)

Hi Guys,

I’m new to the forums but have been a bystander on topics here for a while and have been referring to a lot of threads for info.

I’ll get down to it. I’m looking for my first Gyuto. So far over the last year I have been happy with using a Nakiri paired with a Santoku for general use professionally but thinking of retiring them to my home kitchen. I want to have 1 knife on my board during day prep. I have some specifics and a list that I would absolutely love for you fine folks to pick apart and fight over!

4 things.

1. My budget is £270-£320 ($350-$415). It can be lower of course! I just have been looking at knives in this range. This budget includes international shipping which I must consider.
2. I’m not massively interested in a laser or extreme high hardness. More concerned with f&f, profile and would prefer a mid weight workhorse in the 240 range or an oversized 210.
3. I would like a fully reactive blade.
4. Wa handle

I only have experience with stainless and AS Steels. Looking to branch out and try other carbons, but this is not a priority.

Here’s my list of 10 so far in no order. I have aesthetic preferences but I can’t attest to performance from any of the makers:

Doi blue #2
Konosuke MM Blue #2
Konosuke Fujiyama White #1 (overbudget and not available right now, but....)
Tesshu blue #2
Gessin Ginga White #2
Tanaka Sekiso blue #2 (damascus)
Tanaka Nashiji blue #2 (I know it’s stainless clad, but the beauty of the thing!)
Mazaki Hairline white #2
Mazaki Kasumi white (not sure on #?)
Ikeda AS Damascus

I really like the look of all these knives so I’m just looking for performance input and if not with the specific knife general input on the lines would be good as I have not owned a knife from any of these makers. 

Other suggestions are most welcome.

I currently work with

Masakage Koishi Nakiri AS
Moritaka AS honesuki
Makoto Kurosaki Sujihiki 270 SG2
An old stainless Santoku I don’t know the name of. It’s cheap but it’s gets razor sharp so I kept it for work. 

Huge thanks in advance for any input


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## Nemo (Apr 20, 2019)

Hi Rory.

If you fill out the questionairre (https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/index.php?threads/12791/)- cut and paste it into this thread and answer it- you will get recommends which are more tailored to your requirements rather than just those knives which you happen to have seen.

You may also want to specify what sort of profile you are after.


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## Rory Shannon (Apr 20, 2019)

Thank you Nemo,

I thought I saw something earlier....

Ok in addition:

LOCATION
What country are you in?

Ireland

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?

Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

240/ oversized 210

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

$400



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Pro environment

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

Looking for a versatile knife that I can use for prep excluding butchery

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

A Nakiri & Santoku duo

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

Push & tap cuts, tap chopping, minimal rocking

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Partial to a good flat spot near the heel of the blade. Tip work is important for me but I don’t want anything with a drastic taper that will easily chip.


Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

I like to keep it simple. Knives with a solid all round F&F and no blade or handle frills really appeal to me. Don’t mind Damascus but not the biggest fan of elaborate kurouchi finishes.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

Looking for a medium workhorse with decent edge retention. Nothing too delicate but thin enough for finesse. High hardness is not a huge concern. F&F, comfort is a main factor. I like a large choil to accommodate a pinch grip like the Masakage line. I already own a Koishi so would rather not go with another. But they would be good reference point comfortwise for me.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

OOTB is not a huge concern, push cutting and tip slicing a must. I don’t rock much. Food release is always good but I can be indifferent. Less wedging would be nice with roots etc.. I’m looking for full carbon, so reactivity I’m expecting.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

I don't mind sharpening often it means a better performer



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Wood always at home and work

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

All the time



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

See original post


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## Nemo (Apr 20, 2019)

A few options that I am familiar with:

Tanaka Nashiji is a great value thinner middleweight knife. It does have a fairly curved profile though. The KnS version comes with very nicely rounded spine and choil and with pretty nice ebony handles. As you mentioned, the cladding is stainless. There is not much taper to this knife.

Mizuno Tanrenjo Akitada Hontanren are a nice blue2 iron clad knife. Mine is wide bevel but narrow bevel is also available. Mine is a middleweight but there have been reports of a bit of blade thickness variability (mie seems to be at the thicker end of the spectrum). The profile is flatter than the Tanaka. The steel is easy to sharpen and holds an edge pretty well. The spine and choil on mine needed a bit of work (simple with a bit of wet & dry). Being a Sakai knife, they do tend to run a bit short (of the stated length). Not much taper here.

Hinoura Hyakuren is also a nice middlewight. A wide bevelled white2 blade clad in iron. Steel is a sinch to sharpen. Edge retention is only OK but a few swipes on a dry fine stone will bring it back to scary sharp. Profile is a gentle curve (less curved than Tanaka). A moderate degree of taper.

Sakai Jikko Akatsuki from KnS is a very thin behind the edge knife with a more robust spine, so it lasers through short produce, wedges (only a tiny bit) in tall produce and is a much more robust blade than a true laser. It has a fairly flat profile. The spine and choil have been comfortably eased but not rounded. It's ironclad white2 and runs a little short. A bit of taper on this knife.

The Kagekiyo is a fairly thin behind the edge wide bevel with a reasonably robust spine. Mine is a white2 ironclad k-tip (so a fairly flat ptofile, the standard gyutos are not as flat). It has a nicely rounded choil but the spine is not as nicely done. Mine is not from JKI. The JKI ones are said to have excellent fit & fininsh. I don't know how my one compares. It's easy to sharpen. A bit of taper on this knife.

If you are happy to look at stainless clad, it's worth looking at Wakui and Gengetsu (let me know if you want to know more).


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## Rory Shannon (Apr 21, 2019)

Amazing I will check these new options out!


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## Matus (Apr 21, 2019)

Also have a look at Toyama 210 (definitely feels bigger than 210 in hand). Another great knife is Hinoura Ajikataya from cleancut.se the fit and finish and grind is excellent.


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## Nemo (Apr 21, 2019)

Matus said:


> Also have a look at Toyama 210 (definitely feels bigger than 210 in hand).



I was also considering recommending this or the Watanabe Pro. I have a Toyama on the way. It is often compared to the Watanabe (rightly or wrongly). I only didn't make the recommend because to me the Wat is more of a heavy workhorse than a middleweight. My Wat 270 is a big, fairly heavy knife. Excellent workhorse with great food release. The steel is a pleasure to sharpen and seems to have very long edge retention (in my home use). Excellent knife for plowing through crates of produce. I'm hoping the Toyama will be similar.

Given that you are in EU, Toyama (from JNS) may have fewer associated import taxes?


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## Rory Shannon (Apr 21, 2019)

I absolutely love the look of that Kagekiyo but unfortunately it’s not in my price range. I was looking at a Watanabe yesterday. Seems interesting and people on here seem to be a fan of them.

Anyone any thoughts on Mazaki? I have read mixed reports on the grinds but I like them aesthetically.

Checking up of the Toyama now

Thanks again guys


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## hennyville (Apr 21, 2019)

I have a Mazaki 270 JNS version and its true love/hate . Profile on my knife is absolutely perfect, HT is very, very good. Grind was lets say "uneven" with some bigger low spots near the tip. I flattened the bevels, made the grind constant and now its true cutter which stays with proper sharpening progress very sharp for long time in pro-kitchen. So yes, Mazaki is very good option.

Take a look at Watanabe KU Carbonknife.co sells.


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## Nemo (Apr 21, 2019)

Rory Shannon said:


> I absolutely love the look of that Kagekiyo but unfortunately it’s not in my price range. I was looking at a Watanabe yesterday. Seems interesting and people on here seem to be a fan of them.
> 
> Anyone any thoughts on Mazaki? I have read mixed reports on the grinds but I like them aesthetically.
> 
> ...


There are several different Kagekiyos available. The white2 is the cheapest (JKI lists the 210mm at 320 USD). The white1 and blue1 vestions are significantly less cheap.

Ooops. Forgot about Mazaki! I do like my Mazaki. There does seem to be a bit of variation in grind and profile from batch to batch so what I say may not apply to all batches. Mine is from KnS, purchased a bit over 6 months ago. A fairly flat profile. Easy to sharpen. Decent edge retention for white2. Quite reactive cladding. Hopefully a pro can chime in and say whether this is a problem in pro use. Fairly flat profile. The grind is like a convex wide bevel but without a crisp shinogi line. I polised the bevels on mine with an uchi,and it does look like a eide bevel now. It's thicker middleweight knife with good food release. Spine on my one was nicely rounded, choil easing was adequate. I'm not sure if that is a Mazaki feature or a KnS modification (I suspect the former).


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## Rory Shannon (Jun 7, 2019)

After a really long think, like a 2/3 month think I jumped at a Watanabe 240 Pro.

I decided in the end to go for a heavyweight. I just received the blade this evening and it comes in at a whopping 244g. It’s a thing of total beauty. I’m smitten. Feels great in the hand.

Can’t wait to plow through some produce tomorrow.

Purchased off Carbonknife.co and I think I got the last one!

I suffered some heavy duty tax which was a bit of a bummer but whatever. I think I’m gonna love this knife!


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## parbaked (Jun 7, 2019)

Rory Shannon said:


> I suffered some heavy duty tax which was a bit of a bummer but whatever. I think I’m gonna love this knife!



Only over priced knife is one you don't use...enjoy!!


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## J.C (Jun 7, 2019)

Watanabe is the best bet. Enjoy your new knife.


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