# My Bad. Experience with Metal Master



## b2kk258 (Oct 16, 2015)

So earlier this month I dropped and chipped a friends nakiri. I decided to replace it with a new one and found a great deal on a Tanaka Blue 2 Nakiri on Metal Master's website (http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/). Buts it's now been about half a month and I haven't even seen a confirmation email. So I started to get a little worried I decided to shoot him a email that paypal provided....turns out that email is a dud and came back as a error. So I emailed Metal Master through this website multiple times with no avail! So at this point I'm just assuming he doesn't intend to ship anything and I'm going to have to cancel the charge on my credit card. 

long story short, Don't buy from Metal Master...Very disappointed! :no:


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## chinacats (Oct 16, 2015)

I think they're just slow...PayPal has you covered but I'd let them make contact with MM.


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## WildBoar (Oct 16, 2015)

Sorry to hear about your issue, but it would be great if you would edit your thread title and instead just indicate you had a bad experience with them. Many here have had positive experiences. Thread titles like this one should frankly be banned.


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## RobinW (Oct 16, 2015)

Doesn't help you much but I have purchased several times from MM and it has always worked fine. I'm sure they will do you good.


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## berko (Oct 16, 2015)

ive purchased there as well, and while i understand your concerns, ive always received my items. they just dont communicate at all and are pretty slow.


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## daveb (Oct 16, 2015)

Any kind of site search here would have found that most are satisfied with Metal Master's service. Recurring themes are good values on knives and stones, AND slow delivery, especially if not upgraded shipping AND zero or almost zero communication from the seller. 

I can appreciate your frustration but it seems the experience is not unpredictable. Very tacky title.


http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/19824-Anyone-is-US-order-from-Metal-Master

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/18345-Takeshi-Kuroda-Metal-Master


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## Miho (Oct 16, 2015)

Same boat here. I purchased a stone 3 weeks ago and there's no word from them. Not really worried but kinda annoyed on lack of communication


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## AllanP (Oct 16, 2015)

Yeah super bad communication was my experience as well

I ordered a Santoku last year, but apparently they didn't have it on stock but the order went through anyway. Took them a month of multiple emails to find out that he doesn't have the knife and won't be shipping it until another month later. Anyway I wait another month, still nothing, took me another couple of emails for them to reply that they still don't have it on stock. All in all it took 3.5 months for the knife to get to me and multiple ignored emails.

However, I ordered another item this year and it got to me fine with no problems.

All in all I would still order for them again lol, they have the best price for Tanakas, and it will eventually get to me I guess I just can't expect any good communications or delivery on time


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## marc4pt0 (Oct 16, 2015)

I might not disagree with the thread title. I have Zero experience w/ MM but I am a HUGE stickler with customer service. It's paramount in my line of work and it's just ingrained in me. If I don't receive good customer service, and this includes good communication, I become very turned off over the whole experience. I don't always talk about "bad dealings" here but I've had a few.
I think if we continue to shelter those who offer poor service, they'll most likely continue delling out piss poor service. But if we speak about it openly, without others making it difficult, these vendors might think twice before ignoring communication or dragging their feet on delivery times. That's just my less-then-2-cents soap box speech.

There's been a few times I've sold something here and majorly dropped the ball on getting it to the post office in a timely manner. Yet I've always communicated this with the buyers, offering profound apologies and a couple times forked over the extra cash to expedite shipping. But that's just how I conduct myself. Can't expect everybody to be perfect...


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## Squilliam (Oct 16, 2015)

He's slow but I've received everything I've ordered from him.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 16, 2015)

I'll add my two cents to the discussion. I've ordered several knives from MetalMaster and have never had an issue with non-shipment. Admittedly, delivery using SAL is very, very slow, anywhere from fourteen to twenty-eight days for the orders that I placed using that service, so your shipment's taking longer than half a month is well within my experience. For whatever reason he doesn't send a confirmation of shipment email, nor does he respond promptly to emails. This has been discussed several times in the forums. If this is a problem, then remove him from your list of vendors.

By the way, if you want your order delivered faster than SAL provides, pay the extra charge for EMS, which is quite a bit faster and includes tracking.


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## sharptools (Oct 16, 2015)

A note on Tanaka. When I ordered mine from them, it said that they were in stock but Tanaka was actually making my knife so some of these are back ordered. They do eventually show up though. Buying though ebay makes it a little easier.


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## WildBoar (Oct 16, 2015)

marc4pt0 said:


> I might not disagree with the thread title. I have Zero experience w/ MM but I am a HUGE stickler with customer service. It's paramount in my line of work and it's just ingrained in me. If I don't receive good customer service, and this includes good communication, I become very turned off over the whole experience. I don't always talk about "bad dealings" here but I've had a few.
> I think if we continue to shelter those who offer poor service, they'll most likely continue delling out piss poor service. But if we speak about it openly, without others making it difficult, these vendors might think twice before ignoring communication or dragging their feet on delivery times. That's just my less-then-2-cents soap box speech.


Exactly my point -- indicate you have had a bad experience. But don't title the dang thread "Don't Ever Buy From XX" because YOU had a bad experience. Just let people know you had a bad experience --- isn't that enough? Why go on a forum where you have rarely posted and try and take down someone's business? I suspect some of you who run restaurants can appreciate someone indicating they had a bad meal, bad service, etc. at your place vs telling everyone "don't ever eat there!"


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## ecchef (Oct 16, 2015)

OP; I edited you thread title to something less volatile.


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## b2kk258 (Oct 21, 2015)

So... just as I was about to call my cc company to cancel the order but I received an email from MM with just a tracking number. I do apologize for the aggressive thread title...I was just so frustrated and enraged at the situation. It was also the first thing that came to mind while writing the thread...I was posting everything in the heat of the moment. Not having open communication and being left out in the dark really had me all knotted up. But the final product did arrive today and just as described.


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## Dave Martell (Oct 21, 2015)

b2kk258 said:


> So... just as I was about to call my cc company to cancel the order but I received an email from MM with just a tracking number. I do apologize for the aggressive thread title...I was just so frustrated and enraged at the situation. It was also the first thing that came to mind while writing the thread...I was posting everything in the heat of the moment. Not having open communication and being left out in the dark really had me all knotted up. But the final product did arrive today and just as described.




Hey everyone posts something they're not proud of at one point or another. In this case at least you had the balls to come back and admit what you did and speak about the end result of your transaction.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Oct 21, 2015)

b2kk258 said:


> So... just as I was about to call my cc company to cancel the order but I received an email from MM with just a tracking number. I do apologize for the aggressive thread title...I was just so frustrated and enraged at the situation. It was also the first thing that came to mind while writing the thread...I was posting everything in the heat of the moment. Not having open communication and being left out in the dark really had me all knotted up. But the final product did arrive today and just as described.



We have been spoiled by Amazon Prime. If you should order again from an overseas source (not just MetalMaster), consider paying extra for EMS shipping, which is much, much faster than standard shipping. Or order from Maksim (Japanese Natural Stones) as he uses DHL for most of his shipments.


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## aboynamedsuita (Oct 21, 2015)

Got a JNS shipment earlier today from DHL, took about two days only from the EU to Canada.


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## pkjames (Oct 21, 2015)

There could be two factors that gave you this bad experience.
1. lack of communication, could be partly due to language issues. 
2. the main problem: Japan has some of the cheapest shipping rates available to them, both EMS and SAL (small packet) are very very competitive which enable Japanese vendors to list their items at some extremely cheap combined rate. However SAL could be notoriously slow (and sometimes do go missing) and untraceable, so if you want your things delivered in a timely manner, please DO consider switching shipping method to EMS. As long as the vendors have their items in stock, it should be quite fast.


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## brainsausage (Oct 21, 2015)

Dave Martell said:


> Hey everyone posts something they're not proud of at one point or another. In this case at least you had the balls to come back and admit what you did and speak about the end result of your transaction.



Well said Dave, and I agree- it takes a big man to admit that he may have spoke in error. Kudos to the OP for being a stand up guy. I ordered from MM way before I found this site, and was very anxious about my order for many weeks. But it arrived safe and sound. As Rick said- we're all pretty spoiled by Amazon and such.


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## Miles (Oct 22, 2015)

Mm isn't the fastest. I think there are enough threads which will confirm this, but I've yet to hear of anyone who has said they haven't received what they ordered. We're all spoiled. Our expectations have been thrown off by Amazon and the like. It really wasn't that long ago where there were only a couple vendors who could deliver what we were looking for. It wouldn't necessarily arrive in a week let alone a couple days. I will say that most of the vendors who are regular sources for the crowd here are solid folks who will take care of business one way or another. I have a good deal of faith in their ethics.


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## alterwisser (Oct 22, 2015)

Miles said:


> Mm isn't the fastest. I think there are enough threads which will confirm this, but I've yet to hear of anyone who has said they haven't received what they ordered. We're all spoiled. Our expectations have been thrown off by Amazon and the like. It really wasn't that long ago where there were only a couple vendors who could deliver what we were looking for. It wouldn't necessarily arrive in a week let alone a couple days. I will say that most of the vendors who are regular sources for the crowd here are solid folks who will take care of business one way or another. I have a good deal of faith in their ethics.



2nd that! I live in NYC area and have one day Prime delivery on tons of stuff, it's nuts. And convenient. But nuts. We use it all the time, makes life easier, especially with a 2 year old and a 2 hour commute every day...

Anyway, I actually LIKE the wait, if that makes even sense. Isn't the expectation something great? Reminds me of Xmas as a child...


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## Dave Martell (Oct 22, 2015)

Miles said:


> Mm isn't the fastest. I think there are enough threads which will confirm this, but I've yet to hear of anyone who has said they haven't received what they ordered. We're all spoiled. Our expectations have been thrown off by Amazon and the like. It really wasn't that long ago where there were only a couple vendors who could deliver what we were looking for. It wouldn't necessarily arrive in a week let alone a couple days. I will say that most of the vendors who are regular sources for the crowd here are solid folks who will take care of business one way or another. I have a good deal of faith in their ethics.




Mike, do you remember Lee (and others) who would send off money orders to makers in Japan without even contact being made? An address from the interwebs, a note in English, and a money order - then the wait. Now that was crazy...._but_....it worked. 

The thing is that we didn't have much to chose from but knew there was a lot out there, just had to find a source. The same was true for stones as well. I bought about 1k in stones from unknown Japanese vendors just to try them out to see what worked and what didn't for my applications.

We sure are lucky today to have so many vendors selling Japanese knives, this would have been unthinkable way back then.


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## mhlee (Oct 22, 2015)

I had a similar experience. I ordered a 240 Blue Tanaka gyuto. No communication after purchase except for confirmation, but the knife was delivered about a month later, with a handle that was installed approximately 30 degrees off. I had to have it rehandled.


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## chinacats (Nov 2, 2015)

Figured I'd update this thread...I ordered a 270 Ginsanko Tanaka from MM last Sunday (Oct. 25th) and received the knife today for a total of 8 days by EMS. Don't know if I ever mentioned how much I like Tanaka knives. This thing is very nice...decent ho/horn handle, 270 x 55, 200g and has a very nice edge OOB. The knife (just like the last Tanaka I owned) had no noticeable oddities with the grind and is what I consider an outstanding value...I paid ~$150 w/shipping:wink: The spine and choil will need some work but knew I'd be doing that before I placed the order.

I don't usually purchase/use stainless knives and not sure how much I'll enjoy taking it to the stones for thinning but so far so good. :doublethumbsup:

Cheers


Crappy pic and the edge irregularities are from the fleece towels.


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## spoiledbroth (Nov 2, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Figured I'd update this thread...I ordered a 270 Ginsanko Tanaka from MM last Sunday (Oct. 25th) and received the knife today for a total of 8 days by EMS. Don't know if I ever mentioned how much I like Tanaka knives. This thing is very nice...decent ho/horn handle, 270 x 55, 200g and has a very nice edge OOB. The knife (just like the last Tanaka I owned) had no noticeable oddities with the grind and is what I consider an outstanding value...I paid ~$150 w/shipping:wink: The spine and choil will need some work but knew I'd be doing that before I placed the order.
> 
> I don't usually purchase/use stainless knives and not sure how much I'll enjoy taking it to the stones for thinning but so far so good. :doublethumbsup:
> 
> ...


would you say it needed thinning ootb? choil shot? the finish looks really nice on that knife!


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## chinacats (Nov 2, 2015)

Finish is excellent. Tried a few choil shots, but I'll have to take out a camera later--my phone kinda' sucks at that. I'll likely thin it the first time I sharpen it mainly to see how it goes thinning this particular stainless/cladding combination, but wouldn't say that it necessarily needs it. I'm not one that likes a knife to be super skinny as much as some members--thin is good, but I'm pretty rough on a knife so super thin is not exactly the right geometry for me. For a large knife, it seems particularly capable of delicate cuts...I did brunoise cuts on onion, poblano, jalapeno, carrot and garlic. I also cut a few potatoes to make sure it wouldn't stick--came through with flying colors. :knife:

Edge was good enough to not leave any accordion cuts on any veggies. Think the profile is pretty sweet too, but again my pics kinda' suck.:clown:


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## spoiledbroth (Nov 2, 2015)

Yeah I have been quite impressed with my 240 and 150. Even though the 150 petty has admittedly pretty chunky geometry it still floats through and actually has a nice flatish profile. The petty I expect will be my first foray into thinning.


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## Karnstein (Nov 4, 2015)

And to report yet another user experience.... I grabbed up the other remaining 270 Ginsan from MM... like chinacats I choosed EMS over SAL shipping. Time table breaks down like this:

Sunday, Oct. 25th: Placed the order
Wednesday, 28th: Parcel was shipped, got an email with the EMS tracking number
Thursday, 29th: Parcel left Japan
Saturday, 31th: Got handed over to German customs
Tuesday, Nov. 3th: Left customs
Wednesday, 4th: Got delivered to my address via DHL Express

That's less than two weeks, which is quite a good quota for a delivery to Germany that has to pass customs... I had more than one order in the past, where the parcel was stuck in customs for about a week (or more) alone... 

Knife is 270 long as advertised, weight of mine is 195g... No rounded spine and choil, so there is a noticeable difference to the K&S 240 Tanaka I also own in terms of comfort. On the other hand it came with pretty no glaringly visible scratches on the blade, which can't be said about the 240. Handle was better than what I expected. The quality of the wood & horn is surely not on par with the handles on my three Ashi Hamono Gingas and the one Konosuke I have. But it's not shabby, so it's pretty much a practical no frills handle. If I wasn't very partial to octagonal shaped handles, I would stick with it.... 

Profile of the blade is very nice, rocks like a charm and the tip seems to be a bit more delicate than the one on my 240. Grind on the 240 between the "Shinogi" line and the bevel seems to be a bit thinner on the 240, but my first impression after cutting half an onion, two carrots and a piece of cucumber is that it doesn't necessarily needs thinning right out of the box. Esp. since I bought this one as kind of a beater knife to rock-chop big amounts of herbs, or stuff like (savoy) cabbage and kale... and for that task a not to delicate edge is a bit more suitable...


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## spoiledbroth (Nov 4, 2015)

I would be careful on the rock chop. In my experience Tanaka knives are pretty pliable, if you know the fingernail flex test do it on the edge of your 270 and you'll see what I mean. Rock chop lightly!!


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## Karnstein (Nov 4, 2015)

spoiledbroth said:


> I would be careful on the rock chop. In my experience Tanaka knives are pretty pliable, if you know the fingernail flex test do it on the edge of your 270 and you'll see what I mean. Rock chop lightly!!



You mean pressing the blade vs a fingernail, ring or pencil and see if the edge bulges/flexes? Going to test that one tomorrow, I'm out of the kitchen for today and it's already dark here in Europe, so I'd rather check that under daylight. 

Judging from the choil alone, I wouldn't expect the edge to be overly brittle... I've been using my 240 Tanaka quite a lot with a rocking motion (no cross chop) and hadn't had any noticable issues like edge folding or visible chips, so my guess would be that the 270 should be fine too...


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## robzilla (Nov 4, 2015)

My Tanaka 190mm ginsanko gyuto bends very easily along the length I really handle this one carefully.


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## chinacats (Nov 4, 2015)

robzilla said:


> My Tanaka 190mm ginsanko gyuto bends very easily along the length I really handle this one carefully.



This is the second Tanaka I've owned and neither has been flexible along the edge. I feel no need to baby either this or the last one and in fact beat the hell out of them with very good results. I actually would consider both my last 240 blue 2 and the newer 270 Ginsanko to be more like workhorse knives. Perhaps there is a good bit of variation in the blades, or maybe it is due to the shorter length of yours? :scratchhead: Mine is stiff throughout the blade...here is my 270 choil shot as stock...will likely thin a bit soon, but doesn't cut as chunky as it looks.


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## Karnstein (Nov 5, 2015)

chinacats said:


> This is the second Tanaka I've owned and neither has been flexible along the edge. I feel no need to baby either this or the last one and in fact beat the hell out of them with very good results. I actually would consider both my last 240 blue 2 and the newer 270 Ginsanko to be more like workhorse knives. Perhaps there is a good bit of variation in the blades, or maybe it is due to the shorter length of yours? :scratchhead: Mine is stiff throughout the blade...here is my 270 choil shot as stock...will likely thin a bit soon, but doesn't cut as chunky as it looks.



Same experience here... neither my 240, nor my 270 does noticeably flexes along the edge under mild pressure and the blades are quite stiff. Sure, one can try to bend the blade with force and then it does, but it doesn't flex like a rip saw just by swinging the knife from left to right...so yeah, like chinacats said: stiff stuff, would rate them as middle-weight/workhorse knives too... 

And mine cuts reasonably well, way better than the choil may suggest... so no need for thinning on my part.


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## spoiledbroth (Nov 5, 2015)

Hmm... I suppose without any way to quantify pressure applied it is hard to say. 

I did not mean that the tanakas are flimsy, though I am not sure I would be comfortable rock chopping with a wide bevel knife... 

I only own two tanakas and those are my only two wide bevel. 

By contrast, my hiromoto ginsan and aus-10 (both thicker knives, stamped, monosteel) and sukenari ginsan (stamped, cladded) are much more impervious to flexing (thumbnail test). I do not own calipers but I suspect the Tanaka may be the thinnest behind the edge of them all, so perhaps I am just not used to such a knife.

As an anecdote, I have a yoshihiro umanosuke aus 8 suji which is impossibly thin at the choil (maybe I will try to take a picture some time) and displays a great deal of whippiness and flex. I do not really care for that in a suji, however I have sliced hard into carving forks with this thing (awkward action station doofus award) it's still as straight as the day I bought it.


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## spoiledbroth (Nov 5, 2015)

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts karnstein. It is a shame these blades will be no longer available. They really are special.


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## Keith Sinclair (Nov 9, 2015)

Feel the Ginsan Tanaka's are good cutters, bang for the buck. Couple years ago got a 240mm as a pass around knife ended up selling it. Bought a 210 when they came back in stock at MM 100.00. The knife was straight, but on a horizontal was not centered. Almost no gap at bottom of horn & quite a bit at the spine to top of horn.

Does not look great but does give more finger clearance. That 270mm nice bet you can wail through some prep with that blade.


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## preizzo (Nov 10, 2015)

I was not fast enough to buy one of these ginsanko tanaka but I do have a yoshihiro ginsanko and that knife it s crazy thin. Thinner then my hd2.
I own two tanaka, r2 and blue 2, beautiful knives, the r2 it s thin and light, the blue 2 it s more like a workhorse, heavy and stiff blade which I appreciate lot.


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## joyless (Nov 14, 2015)

i have received blue steel gyuto from him recently, i must say its much, MUCH thinner than ginsanko gyuto that i bought 2-3 years ago


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## joyless (Nov 14, 2015)

oh yeah, and there is zero communication from him


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## Soccerman (Nov 16, 2015)

I purchased one knife from him, he's really slow,but I believe you'll get your order eventually


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## mrogers156 (Jun 3, 2017)

I ordered a 35cm Tanaka yanagiba with ebony handle in April of 2017. The knife arrived in a wooden box last week and the box was crushed at one end. I inspected the knife and found a long thin void on the back side between the stampings and the handle. I turned the blade edge up and found the blade to be warped, and the tip slightly bent to the right. I wrote to Metal Master twice since the knife arrived on the 26th and sent pics both times. I'm asking for a replacement knife of suitable quality. The quality of this knife is inferior and Metal Master has yet to respond. Any suggestions??


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