# Hakata Santoku knives anyone?



## Matus (Feb 16, 2014)

Just browsing though the knives at epicedge I have come across some interestingly looking knives called hakata Santoku. There are just a few of them - 4 from Yoshikane (2xSKD, 2xSLD) and 2 from Asai (these look great!). I find the design interesting - this could be a knife that can do similar work like nakiri as it should have nice chopping properties, but it still has a very usable tip. 

Since I have not found particularly much on this knife design around here (or elsewhere) - I would like to ask what other think about it - is it just a 'gimmick' design or do you find it useful? Any first hand experience?

thanks :knife:


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## cclin (Feb 16, 2014)

Hakata Bocho (&#21338;&#22810;&#21253;&#19969: all- purpose home cooking knife with a triangular nose and curved spine, it's regional variation of the Bunka Bocho or Santoku! you can find this type of knife in Fukuoka, Ky&#363;sh&#363; region.

small parts of video show the abilty of Hakata Bocho @1:25~1:50[video=youtube;IKahVeDjSMg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKahVeDjSMg[/video]


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## cclin (Feb 16, 2014)

IMO, MURRAY CARTER freestyle wide Wa-Bocho is very similar profile as Hakata Bocho!!


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## Matus (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks. It does seem that there are not too many Hakata Bocho users around here. I am just wondering - would you use this sort of knife also as a slicer (like normal santoku or maybe petit gyuto)? I am intrigued by this design as it could serve as both veggie chopper & normal slicer.


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## skyorbital (Feb 17, 2014)

I've also seen these at the Epicurean Edge website, when I first came across them it was like a eureka moment, for me this shape was what I had wanted all through the years I was discovering and exploring Japanese knives.
Initially I was a big fan of the santoku but that wore off as I found it lacked versatility, mainly due to the tip being rendered almost useless, of course that is not what it's for but as someone who is most comfortable with knives around that size it was always a design element I wished the knife had.

When I used my first kiritsuke gyuto I wished they did one that was santoku sized, and so when I saw these at epicurean edge it was great.

I had to wait to get enough money together but I managed to get the last one of the Yoshikane western handled line, I had a custom handle done on it in maroon linen micarta and it should be arriving any day, I'm really looking forward to getting it on the cutting board.


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## Matus (Feb 17, 2014)

skyorbital - please do post some photos once you get your Yoshi handle job done  Did you actually use the knife before having it sent for re-handling?

The thing with the tip is the reason I do not find "normal" santoku too attractive. The Hakata variation could make it (for me) a much more usable knife.


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## skyorbital (Feb 17, 2014)

I was sent some advance photos but i can't upload them, i don't know why.

I asked for the re-handling to be done at purchase so I haven't had the knife yet, but after using almost every other Japanese knife shape available I am confident I will love this knife.


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## Matus (Feb 18, 2014)

What kind of tasks do you "plan" for this knife?


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## skyorbital (Feb 18, 2014)

Mainly for veg prep at work, but I hope it will useful for a wider range of tasks, things such as crowning tomatoes and other fruits, preparing garnishes and anything that has in the past meant using a petty or paring knife, both of which I have never liked using.

Here is a photo taken by EE, I will add more when I receive the knife.


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## Matus (Feb 18, 2014)

Looks great! What kind of wood is the handle?


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## skyorbital (Feb 18, 2014)

The handle is maroon linen micarta, I opted for this material so that it would stand up better at work, I've used exotic wood handles at work before and shrinkage was a big issue that greatly diminished the quality of the fit and finish, and it felt like wasted money getting the work done to such a high standard only to have it undone through use.

I do love dramatic wood scales but I choose more carefully now with consideration to where the knife will be used, and this will be a work knife, not a home knife.


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## Matus (Feb 18, 2014)

What was the reason for you to choose western handle over the wa? Simply a preference for the western type or knife weight (western is heavier and has different weight distribution) or material?


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## skyorbital (Feb 18, 2014)

I chose the western style mostly because I prefer it, but also due to the cost.
This Yoshikane was the cheapest of all of them so that reduced the total cost of the whole project, but it was good fortune for me because I would probably have chosen it anyway, I have used a gyuto from this line with the wa handle and know how well the steel performs.

Added to that I didn't want damascus for a knife to be used at work, you pay in part for the visual beauty with damascus and at work knives can have a hard life.


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## icanhaschzbrgr (Feb 18, 2014)

Matus said:


> Looks great! What kind of wood is the handle?


It looks like micarta


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## Matus (Feb 19, 2014)

I have just came across the following knife: Masakage Koischi Ko-Bunka with ca 150mm blade in stainless-clad super blue:





Since the selles is located in UK it would be a viable option (the price is OK too). I have for now little idea about the performance or F&F, nor the dimensions of the blade or the weight.

So - some Feedback on Masakage would be welcome too


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## XooMG (Feb 19, 2014)

Zakuri makes a bunkabocho too.
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/buk-r/item/115-002/ no affiliation or knowledge of the store, just reference.


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## Matus (Feb 19, 2014)

Thanks. I had Zakuri Sabaki Bocho before (which I later replaced with Itinomonn Butcher) and it was a fine knife. This one is really cheap, but the handle would definitely need a replacement


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## Matus (Feb 20, 2014)

So after lot of consideration, browsing, emails and PMs I ordered the Masakage Koischi Ko-Bunka (from https://cuttingedgeknives.co.uk) - it should arrive next week. I am REALLY curios about it 

Once I get the hang of it a review will be due 

Yes - it is a different (and smaller - 130mm cutting edge) knife than hakata this whole thread was about - it will replace the 150mm Shun petty in the role for slicing & dinner prep. This does not resolve the possible need for veggie chopper - but I realised that before getting another knife I should stop being chicken and start to use my 210mm Tanaka R2 gyuto for that purpose and only it that does not work out consider another knife. The reason I have not used the Tanaka for this purpose before was (and I somehow only realised this recently) the size of the cutting board I use for veggies (way too small) and I will be ordering a nice end grain cutting board ASAP.


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## Keith Sinclair (Feb 21, 2014)

Congrads looks like a good choice


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## Matus (Feb 25, 2014)

The Masahage Ko-Bunka just arrived. First impressions - seems just perfect size, light and nimble, the blade has nearly 0 flex. F&F is nice, the SS kurouchi looks good and durable. It pops hair out of the box. Handle is nice too.

Give me a few days and review will follow.


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## skyorbital (Apr 26, 2014)

Matus said:


> I find the design interesting - this could be a knife that can do similar work like nakiri as it should have nice chopping properties, but it still has a very usable tip.
> 
> Since I have not found particularly much on this knife design around here (or elsewhere) - I would like to ask what other think about it - is it just a 'gimmick' design or do you find it useful? Any first hand experience?



After using mine at work for a few days I think it is more a relative of a Nakiri than a Santoku, in use at least.
When I prepare vegetables I use a rocking motion, although only a slight one it is enough to see the tip catching the surface of the cutting board, something I hadn't expected.

I wouldn't say it is a gimmick design at all, which is a relief as there are some out there, I think this design brings some versatility to a Nakiri type knife. 
The tip design makes it really useful, more than on any other knife I have used, it allows the knife to do precision work and at a length of 165 up to 180 the knife is short enough that you retain control to execute it accurately.

I think anyone who enjoys using a Nakiri or a Santoku might find this tip design to be a great innovation while retaining the practical features of those knives.


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## Matus (Apr 26, 2014)

Thank you for the feedback - it sounds really good. Could you also comment on the blade profile, stiffness, weight ballance, etc ...?


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## skyorbital (Apr 28, 2014)

Matus said:


> Could you also comment on the blade profile, stiffness, weight ballance, etc ...?



One of the things I like about this knife is the weight, I know Yoshikane knives are known for being a bit tougher than some others and are often used as workhorse blades but when I tried a 240mm Gyuto a few year ago I didn't like it because I like knives to become more nimble the larger they get, mainly due to issues of fatigue and control.

But when using the tip for more detailed work I find the weight is perfectly judged to balance between control and fatigue, but of course that will be subjective, however having used many different Santoku and Nakiri over the years the weight is definetly higher than average.

Due to that fact the blade is stiff and strong and there will never be any concerns about warping, this will hold up to a lot I expect.

Another thing I love about it is the balance is right on the join between blade and bolster, right where I like it and every custom handle I have had done by Daniel O'Malley has come to me like that, one of a great many reasons I consider his work to be fantastic.


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## Matus (Apr 28, 2014)

Thank you! That sounds all very nice. I am seriously considering ordering one western blank (that is what EE still should be able to get) and having some nice custom handle made for it. 

Could you tell us a few more words about how does the knife performs o different vegetables? How is stiction & wedding? Thank you.


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## skyorbital (Apr 28, 2014)

I have prepared a wide array of vegetables and even on a Swede I had no problems, it peeled the skin away with ease, gliding through and even splitting it in half was no problem, it did not wedge, and if it can manage that then it has passed one of the hardest tests in my opinion. 

I did have to give it a bit more a push that normal but I was using the knife with the factory edge, which while good, is of course not realizing the blades full potential, so after some care on the stones it will be up to any task.

I have not encountered any sticking at all so far, not with tomatoes, cucumber, lettuce or onion, no doubt the hammer finish plays a part in that but again the tip becomes useful for things like tomato and cucumber as when slicing with that part of the blade only a small amount of the blade remains in contact with the produce, so sticking becomes a non-issue entirely.


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## Matus (Apr 29, 2014)

Thank you, that is very much appreciated


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