# Boiling Vinegar Patinas on good knives?



## gic (Jul 23, 2016)

A while ago there was a thread about using near boiling vinegar to quickly make an effective patina on even the most reactive carbons (like a cheap Tojiro). It's clearly a total piece of cake to implement and awfully fast.

so has anyone used this technique on a better knife like a Shig? If so I would be really interested in your experiences.

TIA


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## panda (Jul 23, 2016)

I force patina on all my knives, eventually natural patina takes over but the hot vinegar trick works well to help calm down the initial rusty phase of fresh exposed steel. 
I've also done coffee or ferric chloride etch as well. If you're not worried about the finish, it should not matter if it's a cheapie or a pricey one. One thing you should know is that vinegar etch and other strong etches leave a rough finish and adds a lot of food drag. It smooths out over time with use though.


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## gic (Jul 23, 2016)

Panda, can one do a super fine micromesh polish pad after the hot vinegar etch to remove some of the rough spots??


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## augerpro (Jul 23, 2016)

I did the hot vinegar with my Shig and regretted it (thankfully the knife I had a flaw and I was able to send it back). The surface really drags on food, even after I tried to smooth it with some ultra fine sandpaper. Of course if you can smooth it enough to matter than you've also removed enough material to make the whole exercise pointless.


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## gic (Jul 23, 2016)

Thanks Augerpro, that's what I wanted to know, so a regular vinegar patina is OK but the hot one is too aggressive??


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## bennyprofane (Jul 23, 2016)

On an Opinel I used a mixture of 70% hot black tea and 30% vinegar to make a black patina.


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## toddnmd (Jul 23, 2016)

bennyprofane said:


> On an Opinel I used a mixture of 70% hot black tea and 30% vinegar to make a black patina.



Looks cool. Can you give some rough guidance about time and temp you used?


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## bennyprofane (Jul 23, 2016)

I first cleaned the blade with soap, dried it, then with alcohol and again with soap and water. Then I made made a strong black tea, let it brew for ten minutes, added the 30% vinegar (I actually used 10% vinegar concentrate) and put the blade in the cup. I left it there for maybe 30-45 minutes, took it out cleaned with a sponge and water and put it back in the cup and left it there for another hour. Took it out and again cleaned with a sponge and dried it.

Saw this in a Japanese youtube video.


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## spoiledbroth (Jul 23, 2016)

Oh I'm betting has more to do with the tannic properties of brewed tea than any ph


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## bennyprofane (Jul 23, 2016)

It's the mixture, no?


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## brainsausage (Jul 23, 2016)

The best patina is natural patina IME.


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## panda (Jul 23, 2016)

that opinel looks dope!!


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## gic (Jul 24, 2016)

Is the opinal completely non reactive, sure looks that way


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## JaVa (Jul 24, 2016)

+1 on the Opinel looks!

Some time a go I found instructions for similar finish but it was made wiping down the blade continuously with warmed vinegar then leaving the blade in the vinegar and repeating that for a few times. The Patina I got was a mid grey not that black as the instruction promised.

So I really gotta try that Black tea-vinegar combo.
Of to the market to buy some black tea then... :thumbsup:


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## bennyprofane (Jul 24, 2016)

I havent used the Opinel for acidic foods but Ill test it...


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## zetieum (Jul 25, 2016)

How stable is you patina on the opinel?


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## bennyprofane (Jul 25, 2016)

Its pretty stable, comparable to other patinas I think...


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## Nick_Hall (Aug 9, 2016)

If you're married, forcing a patina on my carbon steel steak knife is the most practical thing you can do. 

A good meal with friends can last a few hours. Two hours after a meal with med rare steak, tomatoes, and other acidic foods, a new carbon steel steak knife doesn't look so hot. It's a spotted stained mess in fact. That makes the wife not like them "These look yard-sale junk. Why don't we just buy some nice Calphalon ones at Target?...". A very practical way to keep them from looking like a stained mess is to force the patina everywhere. Alternatively, I could buy insipid steak knives at Target made out of 420j, divorce my wife, or excuse myself every acidic course in the meal "hold that thought, please excuse me while I wash my knife again...". For me, the pragmatic choice is forced patina 

Here is the before and after on a carbon steel Au Sabot paring knife that I forced a patina on. I use them as steak knives. The pic is of 3 different knives that I bought as potential steak knife candidates, the carbon steel one is at the bottom, it's stainless twin is right above it. Needless to say I went with the carbon.






And here is the pic after brushing it with boiling vinegar for 5 minutes. My method was to boil 1 cup of vinegar 10% vinegar in a 12 inch saucepan, then brush it on with a basting brush.







I decided to go whole hog and just blacken the damn thing. I did the brushed boiling vinegar trick for another 10 minutes or so. It got very dark, but nowhere near as dark as the Opinel shown in the prior post above.







To test the efficacy of the protective coating, I put a drop of regular yellow mustard and left it on the blade for 5 minutes. That had almost no effect. So I put it on for 10 minutes more. It had an effect, but strangely, when I wiped it off, it just resulted in a slightly *less* tarnished ring of 0.5mm around the perimeter of the mustard drop. You can't really see it with the naked eye unless you tilt the blade just right in the light. It disappeared after a few weeks of use.

After 5 months of constant use, they still look exactly like they did after I took them out of the boiling vinegar. So many guests have complimented us on them because they look like very cool antique knives, that my wife has finally started to think that maybe carbon steel has a place at the table.


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## bennyprofane (Aug 9, 2016)

Here is the video which I inspired me to try the black tea / vinegar patina.

[video=youtube;dnjGdpuYeWk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnjGdpuYeWk[/video]


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## Nick_Hall (Aug 9, 2016)

@ bennyprofane: Thanks for posting the video. I think the opinel that you posted earlier looks amazing. I'm very tempted to try the 70% tea/ 30% vinegar method myself now.


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## bennyprofane (Aug 9, 2016)

Please show your results if you do.


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## zetieum (Aug 9, 2016)

I love the Opinel like that. sounds like a little project for this week-end.


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## Nick_Hall (Aug 11, 2016)

bennyprofane said:


> Please show your results if you do.



The wife vetoed the idea. Now she actually likes the patina that's on the steak knives. I didn't see that one coming! :doublethumbsup:


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## Benuser (Aug 11, 2016)

La donna è mobile...


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## Ydj32 (Aug 19, 2016)

Be careful to wipe thoroughly after you force a patina


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## zetieum (Aug 21, 2016)

I forced a patina on my Opinel using vinegar and tee last week. Unmounting/remounting the knife was quite easy, but you need the good tools. Here are some pics!

First, I have disassembled the knife. I cleaned the blade with soap, since it and wipe it with 2-propanol before forcing the patina. Tow bathes of 1 hour each. I cleaned a wipe the blade with alcohol between the bath and after the last one. 









Above some pics of the blade after the patina.


The I sharpened it on my Wicked edge at 21° per side. 







I sanded the handle and oiled it, before reassembling.




Above are the tools I used along with the knife parts








Finally here is the finished look.

It was fun to do. I think it may be worth doing on a good knife if:
- it is not a too big one,
- if the finish is not nice/very damaged.


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## bennyprofane (Aug 21, 2016)

It seems yours didnt get as black as mine, did you use lots of tea and let it in the water for quite some time and did you repeat the procedure as I described?


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## zetieum (Aug 22, 2016)

bennyprofane said:


> It seems yours didnt get as black as mine, did you use lots of tea and let it in the water for quite some time and did you repeat the procedure as I described?



I used quite some tea and did 2 bathes of 1 hours each. It came out very black, but I cleaned it a lot, it has lost quite of its "blackness" during this step. It was also quite not smooth after the vinegar and I really think that if you do not clean them with the back side of a sponge it will cause a lot of drag. Now it is smooth and I believe this patina is going to be durable.

I am quite pleased with the result, I think it black enough. 

*ATTENTION*: Since I liked it I have decide to do the same on my Opinel n°12 (12 cm blade). Bad idea... I never managed to disassemble it properly. At mid way through, I did not manage to remove the piece of metal holding the blade in the handle... I have all the good tools to do so, but I think it is not doable without a press. I manage to put it back but I got never perfectly aligned. So now, the knife is functional but I cannot close it . 

So my 7 years old Opinel n°12 has to be renewed. It is not a big deal: I bought it was to have a cheap knife to be able to do all the staff you do not want your nice blades to do (cutting bones/frozen food/card boards/cut on glass) while still being able to have a super sharp edge after a super quick and dirty resharpening. It has been also a great knife when renting a vacation home (knives there are always extremely bad). Because it is so cheap, I always thought I would break it from over-abuse. I can tell you this opinel has seen a *lot* of abuse without failing me. So even if I regret my knife a bit a bit, the Opinel company deserve that I give them 15 euros (17$) for a new "au carbone" 12.


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## bennyprofane (Aug 22, 2016)

This is not specific to the Opinel 12 but a kind of game of luck, some pins go out easy some get stuck, it went very easy on my 12 but no go on my 8. I removed a bit of metal of that pin on my 8 and then was able to push through the pin.

I have done quite a few and the majority went through easy.


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