# Knife making for a beginner



## ABranson (Apr 23, 2017)

I know this is incredibly broad, but if I wanted to start making knives, what would I need? The basics. No fancy nothing, jut basics? Could anyone offer some advice, list supplies, or post a link to a thread or other site with helpful info?

Thanks!


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## Matus (Apr 23, 2017)

You definitely need to check out some Youtube videos (Walter Sorrells, Caleb White, etc.). Or just check out my signature


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## milkbaby (Apr 24, 2017)

Matus has a very nice blog. I know that it helped when I started. 

Also the shop talk forum at bladeforums usually has great info. Read up the info in this sticky and it'll probably answer 70% of your initial questions:
http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/sticky-threads-all-the-good-info-you-want-in-one-place.1052730/

I think the bare minimum stuff would be steel, wood, hacksaw, files, sandpaper, drill, and maybe epoxy?


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## Matus (Apr 24, 2017)

I would only add, than in principle one does not need poqer tools, though if you plan to make a kitchen knife (read - thin blade), you will sill need to do some significant grinding of the bevels after HT, because if you grind the blade to a final shape (say witgh 0.1 mm edge thickness) and send it to HT, it is very probable that you will get warping or cracking of the edge (in particular with carbon steels). You can finish the blade grinding after HT with something like Atoma 140, but it will take you several hours even for a smaller blade AND the Atoma costs about as much as a 1x30" 1/3hp belt grinder and a few decent belts. So apart from the traditional (and 100% correct) recommendation on getting a drill press, I would say that getting a small 1x30" (which in US can often be had for around $50) would make the start much easier. Of course you can build that grinding jig like I (and many others) did that uses a file, but a good quality file and all the accessories you need will cost about as much as the 1x30".

But I see that I should update the article on basic supplies


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## tsuriru (Apr 24, 2017)

You might want to look at a good work bench. Something stable that you can clamp things on to and will occasionally take a beating. Also, invest in eye, ear, and airway protection. An anvil, a hammer, thongs, and a small forge may come in handy too.


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## ABranson (Apr 24, 2017)

So I've looked at a few things now. Matus, thank you for your blog! Very helpful. Jig Video also very helpful. A Few more questions I have are, 
1. Who are some suppliers for steels (stainless preferred)
2. Is heat treatment always necessary, and If I don't heat treat will my quality be less than it could be? (Can you buy heat treated steel that is still easy to work with and shape?)
3. How can I make my own kiln or make a fire hot enough for heat treatment?
4. Are grinding belts and sanding belts the same thing/where can I buy an affordable one of what I need?
5. Does anyone know any knifemakers in the MAryland, WAshington DC, or Baltimore MD area?


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## milkbaby (Apr 25, 2017)

I've had good experience buying steel from New Jersey Steel Baron, Maker Material Supply, and Alabama Damascus. I've bought many supplies and materials from USA Knifemaker but no steel yet wouldn't hesitate to if they had stuff I was looking for. Alpha Knife Supply has a good reputation, I've just been very happy with NJ Steel Baron and like to stick with the same people I been happy doing business with before. 

Heat treatment is necessary for a good knife. If you don't HT, the soft steel will not hold a useable edge. If you try to use already HT and tempered steel, like say from a saw blade, it will be very hard to cut and grind, and when you try, you also risk overheating the steel and ruining the heat treat and temper and making it way too soft.

For low alloy simple carbon steels, you can make a small firebrick forge heated with propane or MAPP gas torch. You could also make a charcoal fire with forced air blower to increase the temps (charcoal alone is unlikely to get hot enough). You can even heat treat the edge of a small knife with a propane torch alone, but you're probably limited to around three inches or less. Stainless steels require much higher and precise temperatures for a longer time, which in general requires a good precise temperature controlled heat treating oven or kiln. In lieu of doing your own heat treating, there are companies you can pay to do it for you like Peters Heat Treat.

The grinding belts are the belts on a belt sander. The prices vary, it's generally thought that for grinding metal, ceramic belts may cost more per belt but cost less per amount of useful work life you can get out of them. 

I'm sure there are plenty of knifemakers in your area, maybe even some that offer a one or two day knifemaking class. You might need to do a little googling or research to find one tho.


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## Matus (Apr 25, 2017)

1) I can not help you much with the steel supplies as I am located in Germany, but the names mentioned by milkbaby are all well known.

2) When steel is in annealed stated (basically as soft as it gets) it is acceptably easy to work with (has HRC in the 30-ties give or take), but would be pretty much useless as a cutting tool (ok it would cut some super soft stuff). I would strongly recommend to google HT possibilities in your aread. I send all my HT to professional shops. You need quite some stuff you most probably do not have to HT steel and a lot of experience to get any decent results out of it. On top of tghat only simple carbon steels can be HT-ed at home with basic tools, most steels (in particular stainless ones) need precise control of temperature during the process and advanced equipment and technique.

3) As mentioned in (2) I would not start with that unless you plan to forge. If that is the case you can either buy some simple gas-run forge, or build one that runs on coal (you will need active air flow) - there I can only recommend to check out how-to videos on youtube as I do not have experience with that.

4) I am buying most of my belts from *Tru-grit* mainly because they have a good selection of 1x30" belts. I also found their shipping times and prices to Germany very reasonable. One woerd of advice - do not buy cheap belts. The difference with be around $1 to agood belts (I am talking about 1x30" size). I would recommend getting the following:
- Norton Blaze R980P in grits 40, 60, 120 - say 5 of each for the start
- 3M Trizact Gatgor A180, A100 (or even up to A65, A45, A30) - say 2 of each for tghe start
- 3M Trizactg A65, A45 (these are soft belts) - say 2 of each for the start

5) Hope others will chime in


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## jessf (Apr 25, 2017)

A lot can be gleened from the Handiwork sub forum.

If you have a space to make noise then all one needs really is an angle grinder and belt sander, unless you're a masochist like Matus and enjoy filing until your fingers bleed. Heat treating with MAP torches is also very doable with 1084 and 1095 type steels.


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## ABranson (Apr 25, 2017)

So just to clarify?

A sanding belt it what I need but I need grinding belts for it?


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## jessf (Apr 25, 2017)

A belt sander, as in one used for woodworking. Often take 3x18 belts that can be bought at most home improvement stores.


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## ABranson (Apr 25, 2017)

Cool. And if I had a belt sander, then I would not need to make a bevel rig correct?


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## jessf (Apr 25, 2017)

That's up to you. The bevel rig matus and others use helps with consistency, which you need for good results. Similar jigs can be made for power grinding. Depends on your comfort zone. There's no one right way to do it.


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## ABranson (Apr 25, 2017)

jessf said:


> A lot can be gleened from the Handiwork sub forum.
> 
> If you have a space to make noise then all one needs really is an angle grinder and belt sander, unless you're a masochist like Matus and enjoy filing until your fingers bleed. Heat treating with MAP torches is also very doable with 1084 and 1095 type steels.



Difference between angle grinder and belt sander? I need both?


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## Matus (Apr 25, 2017)

Jess, you made me feel proud for a short moment 

You do not need an angle grinder. Hack saw with good quality bimetal blades can cut a blank out of a piece of (annealed of course) steel in about 30 minutes. 

The grinding jig makes more sense for grinding smaller outdoor blades like hunting knives. I did use it to grind a 240 mm gyuto out of D2 but it was indeed bordering masochism. The final grinding after hear treatment was then made on a 1x30". To do that with an Atoma would have been masochism of higher order.

Belt grinder and belt sander are in principal similar/same machines. Sanders are usually meant for wood, grinders for larger volume stock removal of steel. The 1x30" mentioned here would be rather called a belt sander (has only 1 speed, is low on power and not too robust). On the other hand the 2hp (+ or -) 2x72" machines most serious/pro makers have get called grinders.


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## gic (Apr 25, 2017)

Home depot sells a ryobi combination vertical/horizontal belt and disc sander that is a good buy for around $120 that takes 4 in. x 36 in belts. I've seen it as low as $100:


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## ABranson (Apr 25, 2017)

What is annealed


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## Matus (Apr 25, 2017)

ABranson said:


> What is annealed



Annealing  is basically heating steel up and letting it cool down very slowly - that way you will get it soft (relatively speaking) and easier to work with (cut, grind, etc.). That is the state at which you buy steel for knifemaking (or toolmaking).


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## milkbaby (Apr 25, 2017)

The sanding belts are like sandpaper and are disposable. I have an inexpensive Grizzly combination belt and disc sander like the one in this picture (Grizzly&#8203; H6070):






The sanding belt and sanding disc are only useful while the abrasives&#8203; still work. After heat treat and your steel is hardened, you will need to use fresh belts so as to not build up heat and ruining the heat treatment.


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## ABranson (Apr 25, 2017)

So most of what I've seen, people use the belt sanders. What about a bench grinder with the two wheels on it? Can the same grinding of steel be done on that?

And MATUS
Can I do on a grinder or sander what your jig can do with the same precision? or would I need a seperate tool besides the grinder to make proper bevels


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## gic (Apr 26, 2017)

Combining those wheeled bench grinders and sharp objects can be *dangerous*. Personally I stay the hell away from them. I won't use mine for polishing, I rather use a very fine grit belt. In fact I don't even use the damn thing anymore after reading about how people can get hurt with them!


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## Matus (Apr 26, 2017)

ABranson said:


> So most of what I've seen, people use the belt sanders. What about a bench grinder with the two wheels on it? Can the same grinding of steel be done on that?
> 
> And MATUS
> Can I do on a grinder or sander what your jig can do with the same precision? or would I need a seperate tool besides the grinder to make proper bevels



That Grizzly shown above looks way better than what I have (this)

Yes, you can get tghe same precision with a belt grinder, but it will take quite a few blades to get there (I am not there yet, but improving). The filing jig has some limitations in particular with larger kitchen knives - check my blog article for details.


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## tsuriru (Apr 26, 2017)

I think there may be a bit of over-emphasis on motorized tools here. For your first steps in knife making I suggest you consider the following: 

1) If you cant draw it - you cant make it. You will need some paper and pencils, and you will need to use them to draw what you want to make.

2) You might consider investing in a vise and some good steel files. Grinders etc. make the work faster - but they can also perpetuate mistakes deeper. Get to know your steel intimately by working it first with your hands. Recognize it's traits - desirable and undesirable, and learn to use these traits to your advantage.


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## Matus (Apr 26, 2017)

That is a good advice.


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## jrmysell (May 3, 2017)

I agree with the poster who said read the stickies in blade forums knife maker section. Then read them again.


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## scott.livesey (May 4, 2017)

gic said:


> Home depot sells a ryobi combination vertical/horizontal belt and disc sander that is a good buy for around $120 that takes 4 in. x 36 in belts. I've seen it as low as $100:
> 
> 
> View attachment 35497



Craftsman makes almost the same. It was my first belt sander, still going after 5 years, though kinda noisy. 4x36 is also the size chosen by lapidary(rocks and gems) and metallurgy labs, so there is a broad range of belts available. you can make a basic grinding jig for straight edges with a piece of angle iron. drill holes in the angle that line up with the holes in your tang, tilt your belt to desired angle, and off you go. i would suggest making several small, paring knives using 1/8" 1084(NJ Steel Baron) or 3/32" 80Crv2(Alpha knife supply). you can heat treat this steel with a charcoal fire, a magnet, and a pot of warm canola oil and get a reasonable result. your best option when you go to stainless is send it out.
I would also recommend getting a 14" and a 12" bast*rd file and a basic angle finder. go to You-tube and look up draw filing. attach blade to angle iron, secure angle iron in a vise, use angle finder to show you how to hold the file, and off you go. with a good file and a little practice, you will be pleasantly surprised how much steel you can remove without power tools. final buy would be a Norton 'Economy' oil stone to finish the edge.
Find a knifemaker in your area. The ones near me have been very helpful and have even let me use their shop on occasion.


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