# Alternate to rock chopping?



## jrmysell (Jul 12, 2015)

I've read a couple places that rock chopping isn't great for Japanese knives. I'm wondering what you do to chop parsley, cilantro or garlic if you don't rock chop? I tried looking on youtube for some videos, but everything I can find is some sort of rocking motion. Or are herbs and garlic just not used often in Japanese cooking so they usually don't have to cut them up?


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## Mattl (Jul 12, 2015)

I would rock chop...I've used R2, white 2, skd and others from various makers and did not experience chipping with my own edge...no worries mate!:lol2:


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (Jul 12, 2015)

Herbs, garlic, ginger, I use my CCK cleaver


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## DamageInc (Jul 12, 2015)

I usually push/draw cut everything. 

Roll the herbs and then push or draw cut. Pretty easy with a sharp knife that has a good flat spot.


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## Asteger (Jul 12, 2015)

Basically, if you rock chop you're likely to be pivoting the blade a bit while in contact with the board, and that'll stress harder, more brittle steel, in contact with the board and chip it. If you could just rock back and forth without any turns, technically it'd be okay, but then you have to move and change where you are to rock chop properly.

Herbs, garlic, etc - I push and chop.


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## panda (Jul 12, 2015)

Blade parallel to board, push forward slicing motion with a soft touch as to not dig into board. You will also get MUCH cleaner cuts this way.


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## Ruso (Jul 12, 2015)

I usually chop or pull-push cut. But I do not see any problem with rock chopping, I do it sometimes. 
What is really bad for harder steels (inc. many Japanese knives) is board walking. Its when you rock chop but instead of moving food you move the knife.


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## chiffonodd (Jul 12, 2015)

Asteger said:


> Basically, if you rock chop you're likely to be pivoting the blade a bit while in contact with the board, and that'll stress harder, more brittle steel, in contact with the board and chip it. If you could just rock back and forth without any turns, technically it'd be okay, but then you have to move and change where you are to rock chop properly.
> 
> Herbs, garlic, etc - I push and chop.



+1 this is the secret. You can rock and even lightly "two hand" rock, just use gentle pressure and try not to pivot/torque the blade. The lateral pressure is likely to cause chipping.


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## Adrian (Jul 12, 2015)

You can also chop very fast with a straight up and down motion (not rocking) though it is an acquired technique and more tiring than rock chopping. With cupped finger safety position you push the item being chopped into the knife in the same way as you would using rock chopping (or your hand can slide back and let the knife follow it chopping as you go). This method only works for relatively small vegetables as you don't want to be lifting the knife a long way up. 

With a straight edge blade you can rock chop if you pivot on the front of the blade and use the heel for chopping. It is no way near as easy though as with a gyuto or western chef knife with some curvature on the edge.


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## ThEoRy (Jul 12, 2015)

First I push cut, then I walk the knife, then I go turbo mode.

[video=youtube;naJl1C4jkU8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naJl1C4jkU8[/video]


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## JohnnyChance (Jul 12, 2015)

I try not to go through herbs more than twice with a knife, so I usually slice very thin, rotate the pile, then try to do the same thing again. I usually leave part of the knife on the board and walk it along as I go, more of a locamotion motion than a rock & chop.

Unless you are using an insane amount of pressure while walking a knife on a board, the issue of chipping is a complete myth that continuously gets perpetrated with no real basis.


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## Benuser (Jul 12, 2015)

I use the flat spot and hold the knife with both hands, one on the bolster and the other one on the spine, halfway the length. Chipping is often related to lateral forces with thin, hard, asymmetric edges.


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## rick alen (Jul 12, 2015)

Rick is the Master!

I have done considerable original work in Biomechanics and motor control. I've even been widely plagiarized in this very immature field. Folks have loved also loved to simply use my buzz words, like "Sports Specific Training." So it is with some authority I say that my namesake here demonstrates I superstar-athlete level of physical skill. In my terminology Rick T. has eliminated all "Detrimentally Antagonistic Muscle Response" (what others vaguely refer to as "tension") from his actions, and has a highly developed "Mental Imaging Faculty." By the latter I am referring to the ability to see in the mind's eye the exact physical end result that is desired. Once we have mastery over this Imaging ability the exact physical act follows automatically, just as we see Rick demonstrate in his "Turbo Mode."

Obviously speed like that is not something we can "consciously" control through direct means. But if we image the desired result effectively, our autonomous (ie subconscious) brain functions take over and, voila, we have want we want.

Thanks for showing us what the possibilities are with your videos Rick, you're just awesome!



Rick


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## JBroida (Jul 12, 2015)

jrmysell said:


> I've read a couple places that rock chopping isn't great for Japanese knives. I'm wondering what you do to chop parsley, cilantro or garlic if you don't rock chop? I tried looking on youtube for some videos, but everything I can find is some sort of rocking motion. Or are herbs and garlic just not used often in Japanese cooking so they usually don't have to cut them up?



roll up herbs like you're going to julienne them... then julienne them at the width you want your final minced herbs. Then rotate the bunch 90 degrees and repeat. Faster and more consistent results.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 12, 2015)

Jon, are kcma's videos still available online?


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## spoiledbroth (Jul 12, 2015)

some observations from a professional:

look at your cutting board the next time you cut herbs: big green stain underneath the pile? Most of the flavour and scent you'd wanted from your wonderful fresh herbs is now quickly being sucked into the porous surface of your cutting board, and what you're left with is a largely darkened mass of tasteless vegetative matter. 

why does this happen? 99 percent of the time I see this happen it's because a knife is extremely dull. Rock chopping is not an inherently bad technique, and while I wouldn't choose a thinly ground knife to mince a pound of fines herbes I think with a little extra attention and care most knives can do a great deal of rock chopping without any damage to the edge. The common mistake people make is applying too much pressure with their opposite hand to the tip of the knife, which will cause unnecessary stress on the edge. If you are doing the semi-circle rock chop like the venerable Mr. Theory it is very important to note his technique, he is barely pressing the tip of the knife into the cutting board with his opposing hand, really more keeping it from raising up too high than keeping it on the cutting board. His pinch grip is exceptionally loose- very important. Herbs must be treated delicately and with utmost respect.

The most important thing when dealing with herbs is a sharp knife, and especially if you are processing large amounts of herb (pesto, gremolata- yes it's something you can run into at home too!) it's very important to ensure that your knife is in tip top shape and that you work very quickly and delicately to cut the herbs, seal them up and store them somewhere cool if not using immediately.

I have seen minced herbs remain pleasantly green for up to 7 days (even the dreaded cilantro/coriander which seems to be of very poor quality in Canada) when cut with an adequately sharp knife and proper technique. I have also seen minced herbs rot in under 12 hours when cut with a dull knife by culinary students. :eyebrow:


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## JBroida (Jul 12, 2015)

Dave Martell said:


> Jon, are kcma's videos still available online?


somewhere... i have a link i saved, but i cant find it right now


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## Mattl (Jul 12, 2015)

I hold the knife with 3 fingers just in front of the handle and use the least amount of pressure, with the opposing hand, to hold the tip down. 
As the chef just pointed out, herbs are very fine and can be bruised and if you have a sharp edge then you really don't need to use much pressure at all. It's hard to torque the blade too much if you use a very light grip.

BTW I use a cleaver on Thyme, dried chillies etc.


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## oldcookie (Jul 12, 2015)

As someone who grew up using a Chinese cleaver, I never really understood why people rock chop. Always feel like a very awkward motion to me...

Found some videos that illustrates how to chop stuff without rocking too. 

Cilantro:
[video=youtube;naJl1C4jkU8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naJl1C4jkU8[/video]

Garlic:
[video=youtube;1y5h1pDHhzs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y5h1pDHhzs&t=90[/video]

Pretty sure I wouldn't smash garlic using the technique later in that video with a Japanese knife though....


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## chinacats (Jul 12, 2015)

oldcookie said:


> Pretty sure I wouldn't smash garlic using the technique later in that video with a Japanese knife though....



Do it all the time with any gyuto I have...no problems whatsoever...should say that I'm obviously not that proficient.

I love watching Pepin. :nunchucks:


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## BrianT (Jul 12, 2015)

chinacats said:


> Do it all the time with any gyuto I have...no problems whatsoever...should say that I'm obviously not that proficient.
> 
> I love watching Pepin. :nunchucks:



Agreed. After I saw the video above for the first time, a few months ago, I bought 5 heads of garlic to practice (and to use ofc)


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## ThEoRy (Jul 13, 2015)

rick alen said:


> Rick is the Master!
> 
> I have done considerable original work in Biomechanics and motor control. I've even been widely plagiarized in this very immature field. Folks have loved also loved to simply use my buzz words, like "Sports Specific Training." So it is with some authority I say that my namesake here demonstrates I superstar-athlete level of physical skill. In my terminology Rick T. has eliminated all "Detrimentally Antagonistic Muscle Response" (what others vaguely refer to as "tension") from his actions, and has a highly developed "Mental Imaging Faculty." By the latter I am referring to the ability to see in the mind's eye the exact physical end result that is desired. Once we have mastery over this Imaging ability the exact physical act follows automatically, just as we see Rick demonstrate in his "Turbo Mode."
> 
> ...



Nailed it.

I've always described it as becoming one with the knife. Making it an extension of my thoughts. Never knew the science behind it though.


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