# Gesshin 4000 ?



## Grunt173 (Dec 24, 2017)

Has anybody used this stone? Just wonder what it is like,the good and the bad.I have the 400 and it is the thirstiest stone in my collection,even after an all night soak.


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## chinacats (Dec 24, 2017)

Coarse stones tend to be very thirsty. Use Google to search for the stone you are curious about. It is a very popular stone.


site:kitchenknifeforums.com search term


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## Marcelo Amaral (Dec 24, 2017)

I like it very much. It's a soaker, but it is very fast for a 4k stone and it leaves a toothy edge. I like to use it for good stainless steel, like R2/SG2, that is not as easy to sharpen on naturals as aeb-l.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 24, 2017)

chinacats said:


> Coarse stones tend to be very thirsty. Use Google to search for the stone you are curious about. It is a very popular stone.
> 
> 
> site:kitchenknifeforums.com search term



Thanks. The search worked for me this time and it took me to a lot of good info.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 24, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I like it very much. It's a soaker, but it is very fast for a 4k stone and it leaves a toothy edge. I like to use it for good stainless steel, like R2/SG2, that is not as easy to sharpen on naturals as aeb-l.



That's what I want,nice and toothy. Thank you.


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## labor of love (Dec 24, 2017)

Marcelo Amaral said:


> I like it very much. It's a soaker, but it is very fast for a 4k stone and it leaves a toothy edge. I like to use it for good stainless steel, like R2/SG2, that is not as easy to sharpen on naturals as aeb-l.



+1.
Its really really fast. Leaves a nice toothy edge. If these 2 attributes mean the most to you then this is the stone to get.


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## Barmoley (Dec 24, 2017)

Agree with above. Also, very nice feedback on both stainless and carbon.


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## Matus (Dec 24, 2017)

I have the stone and use it since quite a while. It is hard to compare it to the 400 (which I also have). I permasoak it and do not have the problem with it to be thirsty, but I have glued it to a 10mm thick hard PVC support which of course eliminates the largest part of the surface the stone can loose water through.

Depending on steel the stone may clog a little (it will get darker), but it does not seem to have much effect on the cutting speed or feedback. It is realtively hard and does not create much mud. In comparison the 2000 is a little softer, though not much. It is MUCH harder than the 400 (which is the softest stone I have used thus far). 

It leaves a very toothy/bitey edge that works great around the kitchen. Also a good last synthetic stone when switching to natural pre-finishers or finishers.

It is also very fast for a 4000 grit.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 24, 2017)

Thank you all.I think I just might get that Gessihin 4000 to go with my Gesshin 400.I see the 2000 grit is out of stock but I do have a pretty nice 2000k Kohetsu that feels that bill quite well.It is also a very nice stone,one I enjoy using a lot.


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## Matus (Dec 24, 2017)

Let me just mention one another stone you may want to have a look at - the Gesshin Synthetic Natural. That stone is not as crazy fast as the 4000 (still fast though), has very different (smoother) feel while sharpening and thanks to the fact that it is a blend of different grits (details are not known) it leaves in my opinion a more balanced edge - it has bite, but it feels smoother. To me it is the best synthetic finisher I have used to date. Check it out and maybe drop Jon an email if I managed to make you curios about it


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## labor of love (Dec 24, 2017)

IMO gesh 4k can clog somewhat but its very manageable and not a big deal. Feedback isnt like chosera amazing either. On a scale from 0 to 10 Id rate it a 6. The polish isnt special either. Just to reiterate my earlier point: gesh 4k cuts really fast, it also leaves a great toothy edge. If those 2 characteristics are your priorities then its a great stone.
Basically its a blue collar, working mans stone.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 24, 2017)

labor of love said:


> IMO gesh 4k can clog somewhat but its very manageable and not a big deal. Feedback isnt like chosera amazing either. On a scale from 0 to 10 Id rate it a 6. The polish isnt special either. Just to reiterate my earlier point: gesh 4k cuts really fast, it also leaves a great toothy edge. If those 2 characteristics are your priorities then its a great stone.
> Basically its a blue collar, working mans stone.



Funny you mention Chosera. While pondering a new stone,the Chosera 3000 was on my mind and one I had been considering also.I read much about people having problems with their cracking.Other then that,I have also read how great the feedback is on them.I don't know as I have never tried one.I am still kicking the idea around though.I haven't heard much about Choseras for quite sometime.I think the 800 and the 3000 Choseras would be my only consideration out of the line.


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## labor of love (Dec 25, 2017)

If I were you I would talk to Jon about gesh 4k. Look into the JKI synthetic natural also. I really like that stone as well.


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## HRC_64 (Dec 25, 2017)

what are people's thoughts on JKI syn natural vs chosera 3k?

(what kinds of use case /user would 'fit' best with each)


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## Grunt173 (Dec 25, 2017)

HRC_64 said:


> what are people's thoughts on JKI syn natural vs chosera 3k?
> 
> (what kinds of use case /user would 'fit' best with each)



I'm all ears cause I was wondering that myself.Even though I never experienced the Choceras,I am of the belief that the 3000 is the best stone in the whole line up based on what I have read.It is not easy having three stones bouncing around in your head at the same time,such be the case of the Gesshin 4000,JKI Syn Natural and the Cho 3k.I'm getting a headache.:dazed:


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## labor of love (Dec 25, 2017)

Ive never used a chosera 3k. But I own and use both the gesh 4k and gesh synth nat. AMA.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 25, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Ive never used a chosera 3k. But I own and use both the gesh 4k and gesh synth nat. AMA.



AMA ?


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## labor of love (Dec 25, 2017)

Ask me anything!


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## Grunt173 (Dec 25, 2017)

Grunt173 said:


> AMA ?



Oh ok,thanks Louisiana. BTW,seeing where you are from makes me want to make another batch of Gumbo.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 27, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Ive never used a chosera 3k. But I own and use both the gesh 4k and gesh synth nat. AMA.



Labor,
You and Matus seem to be the only ones that are familiar with the Syn Natural stone that I can find so,
out of those two stones,the natural and the G-4k, which do you like/enjoy to use more. I can't justify both ( or should I?) .


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## labor of love (Dec 27, 2017)

I like them both. For different reasons.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 27, 2017)

labor of love said:


> I like them both. For different reasons.



Wow,you answered while I edited my last post to you.You are quick.


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## labor of love (Dec 27, 2017)

So synth nat and gesh 4 are almost opposite stones. The synth nat will leave a nice polish, have nicer feedback and the edge seems to be more refined than 4k. Synth nat isnt as hard as the 4k and its splash and go.


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## Matus (Dec 27, 2017)

The G4k is faster, less smooth to touch, leaves edge with more bite. The stone is so fast, that with not too abrasion resistant steels it can be used to fully sharpen the knife if it was not too dull. 

The GSN feels more silky, leaves more refined, yet still bitey edge that feels to me more balanced.

I tend to use GSN if I stop there and G4k if I continue to natural stones (though sometimes I go to natural stones from AI#1000 or G2k depending on the mood).

I also use G4k as a finisher for good quality pocket or outdoor knives - I just finished sharpening of my new GiantMouse GM3 pocket knife (m390 steel).

It is a luxury to have both of course. If I would have no natural stones or would not sharpen other knives then I would pick the GNS for the edge it gives on kitchen knives. I have to admit that the G4k fell to my lap thanks to Jons generous customer support.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 27, 2017)

Thanks Labor and Matus,
Your explanations give me a clearer picture of those two stones.Thanks for taking the time to explain the differences to me.


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## Matus (Dec 27, 2017)

I would only add that I fully agree with what labor of love said.


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## daveb (Dec 27, 2017)

But, but, but, don't forget the JNS synthetic aoto. I added that to the mix cause you didn't seem quite confused enough yet.[emoji41] 

I also used the G4K to finish gyuto and the syn nat to progress to finer nats.


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## Matus (Dec 27, 2017)

JNS has two synthetic aotos red (soft) and blue (hard). The blue is also mixed grit AFAIK and I would love to try it out one day. It should be a great stone, bur we do not hear about it much around here.

Oh and I forgot - one thing tbe GSN is not particularly great with is kasumi finish as it does mot give much contrast between hagane and jigane. This is also part of its description on JKI webpage.

The G4k is better in this regard, but since it is a fairly hard stone that creates little mud it requires more experience to get even finish.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 27, 2017)

daveb said:


> But, but, but, don't forget the JNS synthetic aoto. I added that to the mix cause you didn't seem quite confused enough yet.[emoji41]
> 
> I also used the G4K to finish gyuto and the syn nat to progress to finer nats.



Geez,thanks a lot buddy.lol


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## Grunt173 (Dec 27, 2017)

daveb said:


> But, but, but, don't forget the JNS synthetic aoto. I added that to the mix cause you didn't seem quite confused enough yet.[emoji41]
> 
> I also used the G4K to finish gyuto and the syn nat to progress to finer nats.



SAFE! JNS is out of stock on the red Aoto......ha! ha! ha!


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## Yet-Another-Dave (Dec 27, 2017)

Grunt173 said:


> Geez,thanks a lot buddy.lol



Since we're pitching in to confuse you!  Don't overlook the JKI Gesshin Jinzo Aoto.



Grunt173 said:


> SAFE! JNS is out of stock on the red Aoto......ha! ha! ha!



Ah, but the description says he was running low and has replaced it with the Aoto Matukusuyama.

I think the perfect solution here is for you to buy one of each and compare and contrast them in a review. (So I don't end up buying all of them out of curiosity.)


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## Grunt173 (Dec 27, 2017)

Yet-Another-Dave said:


> Since we're pitching in to confuse you!  Don't overlook the JKI Gesshin Jinzo Aoto.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey,why didn't I think of that?:scratchhead:


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## daveb (Dec 27, 2017)

Could just go with a real aoto. Or 7.


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## labor of love (Dec 27, 2017)

Sheesh, werent we talking about the gesh 4k at some point?


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## Grunt173 (Dec 28, 2017)

labor of love said:


> Sheesh, werent we talking about the gesh 4k at some point?



Lol,yep,that's what I thought.Nothing like a little arm twisting huh?


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## MrHiggins (Dec 29, 2017)

I own the Gesshin 400, 1000, 4000, and 6000s&g. 

At first, I loved the 4k. Now, although it still feels great (toothy and responsive), it loads up very quickly, and I need to flatten it just about every time I use it. 

It's not as quick to dish as the 400, but it is quicker to dish than the 1000. 

I still use it to finish quite a bit because it really does give an edge with great bite. It's just a very high maintenance stone.


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## chinacats (Dec 30, 2017)

MrHiggins said:


> I own the Gesshin 400, 1000, 4000, and 6000s&g.
> 
> At first, I loved the 4k. Now, although it still feels great (toothy and responsive), it loads up very quickly, and I need to flatten it just about every time I use it.
> 
> ...



You should flatten all stones each time you use them... and you're the first person I've heard say the 4k is high maintenance. I tend to prefer splash and go myself though as I feel like soaking stones in general are high maintenance...but I'm lazy like that.


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## JBroida (Dec 30, 2017)

MrHiggins said:


> I own the Gesshin 400, 1000, 4000, and 6000s&g.
> 
> At first, I loved the 4k. Now, although it still feels great (toothy and responsive), it loads up very quickly, and I need to flatten it just about every time I use it.
> 
> ...



Have you found that it actually loads up or it just looks like it does? In my experience with it, even when it looks like its loaded up, it still cuts just as fast. Not trying to discount anything that youre saying... just that my experience has been different. Ive also found it to be slow dishing, and we specifically have them made harder than some other stones we have, like the 400 and 1000. Maybe I need to test one again from the most recent batch.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 30, 2017)

MrHiggins said:


> I own the Gesshin 400, 1000, 4000, and 6000s&g.
> 
> At first, I loved the 4k. Now, although it still feels great (toothy and responsive), it loads up very quickly, and I need to flatten it just about every time I use it.
> 
> ...



Ouch! you have me scared now.Up until now,I have read all positives.There is however,one review on the JKI site that the gentleman says it is more like a 1000 grit stone instead of a 4k.Thanks for your review.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 30, 2017)

JBroida said:


> Have you found that it actually loads up or it just looks like it does? In my experience with it, even when it looks like its loaded up, it still cuts just as fast. Not trying to discount anything that youre saying... just that my experience has been different. Ive also found it to be slow dishing, and we specifically have them made harder than some other stones we have, like the 400 and 1000. Maybe I need to test one again from the most recent batch.



Hurry! lol....Mr. Higgins has me scared and I am the guy who emailed you over the Holidays about the 4k.....hint!


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## daveb (Dec 30, 2017)

I got away from soakers a couple years ago in favor of diamond plates and other s&g.

I liked the G4K a lot, as a finisher for some gyuto, as a step to nats and as a touch up stone. Don't recall loading ever a prob.

When I inevitably rebuild soakers the G2K and G4K will be my first.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 30, 2017)

daveb said:


> I got away from soakers a couple years ago in favor of diamond plates and other s&g.
> 
> I liked the G4K a lot, as a finisher for some gyuto, as a step to nats and as a touch up stone. Don't recall loading ever a prob.
> 
> When I inevitably rebuild soakers the G2K and G4K will be my first.



I don't permasoak mainly because I don't have the room or the time to change the water often and I see it as more or less a pain. My plans are to use the G4K like I do my G 400 grit and just soak it briefly until it holds water which isn't exactly very long.When done sharpening,I have a place for them on a rack in a cool place for them to dry.I do that with my S&G's too.I just think the soakers have better feedback and feel to them.I have diamond plates too,that I use for other people's knives but because of their lack of soul,they are put away,same with my good Arkansas that I don't use anymore.


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## MrHiggins (Dec 30, 2017)

Yikes, I didn't mean to scare anyone, just tell about my experiences. 

Like I said above, I really like the tactile feel of the 4k, and it is my most common finishing stone because of the very useful cutting edge it creates (just enough bite).

I do think it has the tendency to load up during a session. It starts to cut immediately (good), but then starts to feel a little slick, with less feedback (not so good). When that starts to happen, I give it a moderate scrub with the rough side of a spounge.

With the dishing, I think it is quick to dish for a high grit stone. One commenter said to flatten every time, but I don't have to with my 1k, and I think I've only flattened my 6k once in a month.

I think the pros outweigh the cons. I don't mind high maintenance if the results are great. Hell, in my ski racing days, I could spend 10x more time on base and edge prep than I did actually skiing.

I don't think the 4k feels like a Gesshin 1k, but the two totally complement each other. They are obviously siblings. 

I would 100 percent buy the 4k again.


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## Matus (Dec 30, 2017)

Permasoaking my stones has made my life so much easier. I change the water once or twice a month. The stones are ready whenever I need them and I do not have to dry them (takes several days with soaking stones). On top of that I have lacquered my Bester 220 on all sides so it lost all its thirst. Of course it would take for ages to dry with only one surface able to evaporate through. I have all of my soaking stones glued to a 10mm thick PVC for support.

I will move most of my S&G stones that can not be soaked (JNS300 and AI#1000) to my workshop soon.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 30, 2017)

MrHiggins said:


> Yikes, I didn't mean to scare anyone, just tell about my experiences.
> 
> Like I said above, I really like the tactile feel of the 4k, and it is my most common finishing stone because of the very useful cutting edge it creates (just enough bite).
> 
> ...



Thanks Mr. Higgins,that made me feel better.
Ski,oh boy,I loved that in my younger days,even though I spent more time on my butt then on my skis.I took up skydiving.It was safer.lol


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## Grunt173 (Dec 30, 2017)

Matus said:


> Permasoaking my stones has made my life so much easier. I change the water once or twice a month. The stones are ready whenever I need them and I do not have to dry them (takes several days with soaking stones). On top of that I have lacquered my Bester 220 on all sides so it lost all its thirst. Of course it would take for ages to dry with only one surface able to evaporate through. I have all of my soaking stones glued to a 10mm thick PVC for support.
> 
> I will move most of my S&G stones that can not be soaked (JNS300 and AI#1000) to my workshop soon.



I would probably have problems with soaking stones in my well water with all the iron in it.I have a water softener but still...


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## Matus (Dec 30, 2017)

You could add a bit of baking soda. That might help. Or just use a common kitchen water filter


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## MrHiggins (Dec 30, 2017)

I have hard well water, too, so I just use two gallons of distilled water. Costs about $3, and I do it every two weeks or so.


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## Grunt173 (Dec 30, 2017)

Matus said:


> You could add a bit of baking soda. That might help. Or just use a common kitchen water filter



The water filter might be a good idea.We have to get a new one anyhow.Now we have an excuse.


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## labor of love (Dec 30, 2017)

JBroida said:


> Have you found that it actually loads up or it just looks like it does? In my experience with it, even when it looks like its loaded up, it still cuts just as fast. Not trying to discount anything that youre saying... just that my experience has been different. Ive also found it to be slow dishing, and we specifically have them made harder than some other stones we have, like the 400 and 1000. Maybe I need to test one again from the most recent batch.



Im going to test this tonight. The 4k does show plenty of streaks after sharpening a knife but I work up more mud on the stone between knives during a session.
Ive sharpened as many as 4 knives at a time on the 4k and between knives I simply hit the stone with atoma 140 just to get a little more mud. Usually the streaks disappear during this process in just a few seconds and the stone is just as effective at sharpening.


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## Grunt173 (Jan 25, 2018)

Just a little update to my original post but I patiently awaited JKI to get more 2000 grit stones in and when they did,I ordered it and also ordered the Gesshin Syn. Natural as well. I have used them in a progression with my Gesshin 400 and I am here to tell you,I could not be any more happier with my results.Good call guys and gals.Thanks.


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## labor of love (Jan 25, 2018)

Good to hear. That Synth nat is awesome.


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## Matus (Jan 25, 2018)

Yep, that is a great progression.


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## CiderBear (Sep 11, 2019)

Hi guys, sorry to digging this thread up again. 

I'm considering getting a couple stuff FROM Jon to try out (and yes I have been in constant touch with him) so I'd like to get your opinions as well.

Right now I only have a Gesshin 1000/6000. At first I thought I should grab a 2000 when it's available, but Jon advised that it might overlap with the 1000 side I already have.

Then I considered one of the 3 400 grit stones he carries, but I'm not sure if I'm ready for a coarse stone yet.

I saw a few pictures of the dreamy Jinzo Aoto kasumi finish and I definitely want it, but Jon says that while it makes a nice kasumi finish, the edge it leaves doesn't feel like a natural stone edge, which the Synthetic Natural excels at.

So I'm wondering, (@Matus since you've used both), is there room in a set up for both the GJA and GSN at once? Would it make the 6000 side of my combo stone redundant? 

What about the G4000 - would it make more sense to get the GJA and G4000 instead?


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## Matus (Sep 11, 2019)

I have not used the Jinzo (GJA) and my understanding is that it exists especially for the kasumi finish. I have frankly no idea what kind of effective grit it has an whether it would be a replacement for a 1000 - 2000 stone. Ask @JBroida about that.

GSN will give you little more aggressive edge that indeed reminds more of a coarser suita and will have more bite than a 6000 edge. I would say - GSN is great for kitchen knives. If you want to use the stone also - say - for razors, than keep the 6000.

Frankly - for the edge you should not be missing anything with the 1000/6000 stone. Combination of G2000 and GSN would effectively replace it, while GJA would be an addition for the kasumi finish.

G4000 gives even more aggressive edge than GSN - it really is a bit finer version of the G2000. It is also a bit harder than the GSN (which I would call medium hard). For my taste (subjective!) the G4000 would be a bit too aggressive for a finisher, but it is also a fairly fast stone (and faster than GSN).


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 11, 2019)

I like my Gesshin 4K. Gives a very satisfying toothy edge. As Matus says its not great as a polishing finisher. I use some Jnats for that.


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## CiderBear (Sep 11, 2019)

Thanks so much @Matus. I like the GSN more the more I learn about it. Could you explain what an "aggressive" edge is? (say, if I cut a tomato with a knife finished with the GSN vs G4k, how different would they feel?)

I've been a bit confused between a high grit "finishing stone", a "finisher", VS a stone that gives a nice/ high contrast kasumi finish (say, GJA). Please correct me if I'm wrong, a high grit finishing stone (say, G6k), would be used to refine a medium grit edge (G1k or G2k), and created a microbevel. Whereas a medium grit stone that creates high contrast (GJA or King 800) would be applied to entire wide bevel (say of my Kochi) to work on the finish itself, and doesn't necessarily need to be used in the actual sharpening of the primary edge - is that the case?


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## labor of love (Sep 11, 2019)

Yes, Jinzo will make your blade road pretty (like your hinoura for example). Creates great contrast. Personally, I wouldn’t use it for the edge if you already have a 1k and 6k. Jinzo is a really easy stone to use, so if you don’t have experience with this kind of thing it’s a great first stone to try.
Cider with regards to finishing stone, what are you looking for?


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## CiderBear (Sep 11, 2019)

Thanks labor, good to know! If by finishing stone, you mean the one to use on the edge, I think I want to try something that grabs into produce being cut easily (as opposed to sliding?) I honestly haven't used the G6k side of my combo stone enough yet to know if it already does it or not, but I'm curious how/ if the GNS and G4k would differ (since you mentioned they're very different stones).

As for the GJA, I want to be able to learn how to create a nice kasumi finish on the blade road of my knives. My favorite so far is the Kochi - it's a wee bit darker gray and has more contrast than the Hinoura and I want a stone that can potentially put a similar finish on the Hinoura.


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## labor of love (Sep 11, 2019)

Can’t really help you with trying to match a finish. There’s so much going on in the world of polishing, you may have to try different things to get the results you want. Jinzo is effective, looks cool and is easy to use. 
I guess for finisher you’re saying you want something with more bite and less refined edge. But you really need to use your 6k more so you can form a stronger opinion before you make your next stone purchase 
But yeah I think you would be happy with synth natty or gesh 4K. But also, figure out if you want splash and go or soaker, hard stone or soft stone. Or you can just be like me and try a bunch of stuff overtime and stick with the things you like the most.


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## JBroida (Sep 11, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> Thanks labor, good to know! If by finishing stone, you mean the one to use on the edge, I think I want to try something that grabs into produce being cut easily (as opposed to sliding?) I honestly haven't used the G6k side of my combo stone enough yet to know if it already does it or not, but I'm curious how/ if the GNS and G4k would differ (since you mentioned they're very different stones).
> 
> As for the GJA, I want to be able to learn how to create a nice kasumi finish on the blade road of my knives. My favorite so far is the Kochi - it's a wee bit darker gray and has more contrast than the Hinoura and I want a stone that can potentially put a similar finish on the Hinoura.


honestly, the easiest way to do that is to polish to 6k (usually with a resinoid based stone for a super smooth and even finish) and then hit the jigane with fingerstones.... it will be the closest in terms of look (especially with something like hazuya fingerstones). Its not exactly what they do in their workshop, but its the easiest and most accessible way to recreate something that looks almost the same.


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