# Reverse sear burgers moisture loss



## brianh (Jul 4, 2015)

Tried them yesterday on my Green Egg. Some hickory wood in with the charcoal. Patties were freshly ground chuck. 225F until internal was 120F, removed and got the Egg super hot with a cast iron skillet on the grate, then seared in the ripping hot cast iron pan. The smoke flavor was amazing, but the burgers were a little dry, I think in part because a lot of the fat dripped out through the grates onto my heat deflector below while smoking. 

Anyone using this method do it successfully resulting in moist burgers? I've done bacon fat in the burgers, not wanting to do that with these. I'm thinking of putting the burgers on a small sheet pan to contain the juices, or individual aluminum foil "plates." Would also help keep them together when I remove from the grill and get temp up before searing. 

Or maybe I just need to add more fat into the grind to begin with. I'm loving the reverse sear flavor. I'll never do steaks another way.


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## 99Limited (Jul 4, 2015)

brianh said:


> ... Or maybe I just need to add more fat into the grind to begin with.



I think you hit the nail on the head. You didn't mention how long it took your burgers to come to temp. Were they fully chilled, straight out of the fridge or room temp before grilling?


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## brianh (Jul 4, 2015)

They were very cold,right outta the fridge. Took maybe 20-25 min to come to 120F on the BGE. Think something underneath the patties would help? Or let come to room temp first?


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## Pensacola Tiger (Jul 4, 2015)

Try an internal temperature of 95 F next time. Putting something under the patties will only collect the juices that you are driving out of the patties, not keep them in.


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## knyfeknerd (Jul 4, 2015)

I think 120 is probably too high of a temp to bring them up to. They're gonna be med rare from the carry-over heat before you even get the final sear on them. Maybe do 100 or 105.
Edit- doh! Rick beat me to it!


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## brianh (Jul 4, 2015)

Thanks. I was doing a test run for next week when I have some people coming over for burgers that like them well done. Ughh. These came out medium which i dont hate. Will try pulling earlier and searing longer over a less screaming pan I suppose. Maybe I should just grill to leather for them and eat something else.


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## WildBoar (Jul 4, 2015)

Heat issues aside, try grating some onion into the ground beef. it adds moisture. Didn't believe it until I finally tried it.


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## brianh (Jul 4, 2015)

Will do!


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## panda (Jul 5, 2015)

why reverse sear on burgers? i think a crispy crust is even more important for burgers so longer sear time is desirable (my preference for steaks as well but that's a different topic). 
add more fat to your grind, also try adding an egg yolk and worcestershire for increased moisture. up the temp to 325, you want to shorten the cooking time. another trick is to put some water in a metal can on the grill.


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## Mucho Bocho (Jul 5, 2015)

Something I've tried is making a very shallow flat pan of chic stock set with gelatin. Juliann it into small cubes and mid into ground beef. I use 80/20 lean/fat chuck. It does add significant moisture. Agree with Rick and Chris sear the meat when internal is ~95 degrees. Keep an eye on them too. Burgers cook quick


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## daveb (Jul 5, 2015)

I think where you're losing the desired moisture is cooking the burgers in two stages. First to a smoke temp and then a sear to finish. You hit you target smoke temp, 110 to 120F, and then burger is resting (and cooling) while the grill gets sear hot (. Then searing to finish is reheating the burger in addition to putting the crust on it - effectively cooking it twice.

You would (IMHO) do better to cook them more conventionally, i.e. put them on a hot 5-600F grill then shut down the air flow. They'll be the best burgers you're guests have ever had - specially if plied with enough beer first. :cool2:

I've done the initial smoke with sirloin, ribeye and other substantial cuts, but not on burgers. If you want to pursue this route I suggest you find a way to go from pulling it off the low temp to immediate sear - hot pan on gas grill, hot pan inside the house, etc. The delay/reheat is what's doing you in.


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## panda (Jul 5, 2015)

I didn't catch the part about delay between smoke and sear, that's definitely the culprit. Btw are you using as coarse grind you can manage without falling apart? Chunkier the better.


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## brainsausage (Jul 5, 2015)

Super hot pan is ideal for the sear. You wanna build a crust as fast as possible to lessen the moisture loss. And flip them very frequently!


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## brianh (Jul 5, 2015)

I'll go back to the traditional method. Guess I've been somewhat underwhelmed by my burgers. Dave, do you find the cast iron grate makes a big difference than the stock grate on the BGE?


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## daveb (Jul 5, 2015)

I prefer the cast iron but it's not a game changer. I've bought them for previous grills, like them and they were my first accessory for the BGE(s). I do season them just like a carbon or CI pan so they release food and clean up readily as well as searing better. The SS grates work well, I use them in demos, but they just don't have any ass to them.


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## spoiledbroth (Jul 5, 2015)

why reverse sear in the first place? you're going to develop more complex browning by searing first... At any rate, a good rule of thumb: the more you cook something, the greater moisture loss. You. Will. Never. Reintroduce. Lost. Moisture. It's totally illogical and unscientific to think this way about cooking any protein. I have never actually heard of reverse searing except for something that's been sous vide and cooked via circulator.


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## brainsausage (Jul 6, 2015)

spoiledbroth said:


> why reverse sear in the first place? you're going to develop more complex browning by searing first... At any rate, a good rule of thumb: the more you cook something, the greater moisture loss. You. Will. Never. Reintroduce. Lost. Moisture. It's totally illogical and unscientific to think this way about cooking any protein. I have never actually heard of reverse searing except for something that's been sous vide and cooked via circulator.



I'm not challenging, but simply asking: What do you mean by more complex browning exactly?
And I'd like to clarify my above post, by stating that the quick searing will aid in lack of moisture loss by not heating the protein through. Not by dint of searing. It's been proven by many a food scientist, and chef, that searing does not 'hold in juices'.


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## spoiledbroth (Jul 6, 2015)

brainsausage said:


> I'm not challenging, but simply asking: What do you mean by more complex browning exactly?
> And I'd like to clarify my above post, by stating that the quick searing will aid in lack of moisture loss by not heating the protein through. Not by dint of searing. It's been proven by many a food scientist, and chef, that searing does not 'hold in juices'.


By starting to brown the meat initially, that crust is going to continue to brown via whatever method you use to cook the burger through: smoke, microwave, toaster oven, whatever. I think that's unquestionably going to lead to a more aesthetically pleasing crust and it would stand to reason that developing that crust earlier in the cooking process would probably lend itself to "more browning", "better browning"... the maillard and various other reactions involved in browning are by no means uncomplex :clown:

Hope you understand what I am trying to say? cliffnotes: the sooner you've got a crust formed, the longer it can "develop" whilst cooking. Instead of some poo poo light brown Worthers Original sear you'll have a loverly chestnut sear on the outside of your burger, roast, supreme, whatever.


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## brainsausage (Jul 7, 2015)

That concept really doesn't apply here IMO. Burgers are far too thin. Unless of course you pound and slap them into those giant, fleshy pucks prior to- oh crap never mind.


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## spoiledbroth (Jul 7, 2015)

brainsausage said:


> That concept really doesn't apply here IMO. Burgers are far too thin. Unless of course you pound and slap them into those giant, fleshy pucks prior to- oh crap never mind.


burgers are far too thin for what exactly? sorry, you've lost me,


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