# Nakiri versus bunka for veggies



## kdkrone (Sep 3, 2019)

My wife and I use a Tojiro nakiri at home, which my we like a lot. We are looking to purchase a second vegetable knife: light (laser), thin, either a bunka or nakiri, for home use.

Before I wander too far down the path, are there any words of advice regarding the differences/similarities in use between the two styles of knives? Is a bunka more versatile because of the pointed blade? Any recommendations for a thin (laser), light bunka or nakiri? I have found the aesthetics of the Shibata Kotetsu R2 Migaki Bunka 180 mm attractive (I recall a recent thread about 165 mm vs. 180 mm length WRT nakiri knives... )

Thanks
Ken K


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## Matus (Sep 3, 2019)

Hello Ken. A bunka may be a little more practical, but the fact is that unless the point is, well pointy enough, it will not be quite as useful as one may think. I find that the difference comes from the fact, that most nakiri knives (Moritaka and Takeda would be exceptions though) have rounded tip. This has advantages - no biting into the cutting board as the profile of the knife is fairly flat, but also disadvantages - the really is no tip and one may need to adjust to that 'lack-of-precision-where-the-cutting-edge-ends'. If you look closely at bunka knives, most have a little more belly towards the tip to mitigate the biting into the cutting board.

But since you have a nakiri already it might be fun to get a bunka to appreciate the differences.

Side note - if you are looking into bunka knives, than do have a look at the Kochi 180 k-tip santoku. Awesome knife.


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## Paraffin (Sep 3, 2019)

I've never tried a bunka so grain of salt and all that, but I can't see the advantage over a nakiri with that profile. At least, if you're someone like me who likes specialized knives. I usually only need a sharp point on the end of a knife when working with soft protein, where I'll grab a honesuki or long petty knife. I don't miss having a sharp point for a knife I'll only use on vegetables.

I like the way the front curve on a nakiri stays very sharp for precision draw slicing, because it doesn't get as much board contact when I'm using the main part of the blade for chopping. I'm not sure that would still be the case with a bunka. Another thing I like about a nakiri is the big 90 degree flat front for scraping product together on the board, without having to flip the knife and use the spine for that. Most bunkas I've seen aren't quite as tall as a nakiri either, so you'll get more cut product sliding up and over the top of the knife, like when you're dicing an onion. 

I do think a bunk looks cool. I think a kiritsuke looks cool too. I just don't see (or need) the point unless you're using it as an all-purpose knife, which isn't my thing.


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## MarkC (Sep 3, 2019)

I see a bu ka as an alternative to a Gyuto. If you want to have some fun, buy a Chinese style cleaver. You can try one for very little money and you might be surprised how well they work on prepping vege.


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## Hassanbensober (Sep 3, 2019)

If you like Nakiri and are considering adding a bunka do also consider adding hakata. Slightly more curved belly with usually very aggressive tip.


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## Koakuma (Sep 3, 2019)

If you like Nakiri, why not consider a Chinese vegetable cleaver like CCK 1303. It's bigger than Nakiri but yet its light and thin.


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## Danzo (Sep 4, 2019)

+1 for cck 1303. Only if you’re ready for something quite a bit larger than a 165 nakiri. Will have a similar cutting motion you are used to, but with a nice right angled tip that’s useful.

Also bunkas are fun too, it’s essentially a santoku that looks cool. Either way I would get something besides a nakiri so you can try some new shapes and sizes


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## Matus (Sep 4, 2019)

Just for comparison of CCK1303 with some other knvies:

Left to right:
270 Ikeda gyuto, 190 Raquin gyuto, CCK1303, 180 Moritaka AS nakiri, 170 Takeda nakiri, 165 Masakage Koishi nakiri.

In other words - CCK1303 is not huge and weights only around 280g. A good place to start to try out a Chinese cleaver.


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## Cbt (Sep 4, 2019)

+1 on the chinese cleaver

I wanted a bunka but tried a cheap cleaver instead. Now I have three cleavers!!!

A good compromise between a full on chinese cleaver and a nakiri is the small cleaver/tall nakiri from Yu Kurosaki. It is a freaking laser vegetable killer!


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## LostHighway (Sep 4, 2019)

There are far more experienced voices on this forum but I would urge you to take a look at the Mazaki 180 "santuko". Personally, I would characterize this as a bunka. The profile is very flat (based on the photos flatter than the Kochi to my eye) and while it isn't exactly a laser it is relatively thin behind the edge and it cuts like a demon. It is also fairly tall, 54mm. I find this way more useful than any 165 nakiri I have used. The tip is pointed enough top be useful IMO. I have zero experience with cleavers.


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## CiderBear (Sep 4, 2019)

That Mazaki santoku is basically a flat nakiri with a tip! I think that and Mazaki's nakiri both look much flatter than my Wat nakiris, though I'm not experienced enough to know what the advantages of having a flat nakiri and vice versa


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## Koakuma (Sep 4, 2019)

CiderBear said:


> That Mazaki santoku is basically a flat nakiri with a tip! I think that and Mazaki's nakiri both look much flatter than my Wat nakiris, though I'm not experienced enough to know what the advantages of having a flat nakiri and vice versa


Flat profile helps with chopping. Curved profile is better with rock chopping.


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## CiderBear (Sep 4, 2019)

Koakuma said:


> Flat profile helps with chopping. Curved profile is better with rock chopping.


Thank you! 
In that case, I think I cut way too slow to appreciate the difference between the 2 then


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## kdkrone (Sep 4, 2019)

Wow! Thanks all for your responses. It gives me a lot to research. I have an inexpensive Chinese cleaver that I rarely use because it doesn't fit in my knife block (someone had mentioned in another post about using magnets, which should be a good solution. I think I will check out a few of the knives suggested, including the CCK cleaver. Thanks again, Ken K


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## kdkrone (Sep 4, 2019)

Cbt said:


> +1 on the chinese cleaver
> 
> I wanted a bunka but tried a cheap cleaver instead. Now I have three cleavers!!!
> 
> A good compromise between a full on chinese cleaver and a nakiri is the small cleaver/tall nakiri from Yu Kurosaki. It is a freaking laser vegetable killer!



CBT, I looked on the japanny.com website and saw a number of Yu Kurosaki nakiris. Do you have a specific one that you are recommending? (I like some of his aesthetics---just purchased a hammered 240 gyuto)


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## gcsquared (Sep 4, 2019)

There is a Kurosaki small cleaver at Knives & Stones (probably other sellers carry them too).

+1 on chinese cleavers. In my experience, nakiris are cool but usage is limited. It does great with vegetables, but so does a gyuto frankly and doesn’t really bring with it any significant benefits (but some shortcomings).

Cleavers, on the other hand, has many benefits — most notable of which are the weight and the blade surface area (for scooping and safety). There is a reason why the chinese use a cleaver for all-purpose but no one uses a nakiri as an all-round weapon of choice.

My 2 cents anyway, and I’m biased cos I’m a cleaver fan.


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## -toa- (Sep 4, 2019)

Hi Ken, bunkas are super fun knives, and good alternative if you like smaller , more nimble knives like i do, and also favor nakiris. I find that they are slightly more versatile than nakiris in terms of cutting technique (due to precise tip and profile which enable you to speed chop with the tip while the handle is lifted a bit, perform draw cuts with tip etc).

165mm bunkas are often speed chopping machines, while the 180 usually have a bit more reach/power.

The shibata is an ace laser bunka in all aspects, and a bit on the tall side to help with bigger vegetables (i love mine, and have tried a lot of bunkas).
Others (like the kochi, and mazaki santoku/bunka) have distal taper that gives them power near the heel and finesse near the front - they have more of a solid feel to them.

Cleavers are often mentioned as more effective than nakiris (but less nimble), and it´s hard to argue against it., especially if you do large scale cooking. The cck is a good way to test one.

Overall i think you´ll find a 180 bunka a safe choice. Alternatively a 180 nakiri/tall nakiri

You might benefit from giving some thoughts about what you really like about using a nakiri (and how you use it - only chopping?, push cutting also, which part of the knife you use most etc...) and what you wish to gain from you next knife.


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## Lazyboy (Sep 4, 2019)

kdkrone said:


> CBT, I looked on the japanny.com website and saw a number of Yu Kurosaki nakiris. Do you have a specific one that you are recommending? (I like some of his aesthetics---just purchased a hammered 240 gyuto)



I just picked up one of these from BST, becaus e I wanted to "try a nakiri or small cleaver". I love it, the height of this adds to its utility (for me). I may be on the slippery slope to selling everything and just having one CCK for everything (JUST KIDDING).

Unfortunately it's oos at KnS
http://www.knivesandstones.com/kuro...nakiri-175mm-aogami-super-stainless-cladding/


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## kdkrone (Sep 4, 2019)

gcsquared said:


> There is a Kurosaki small cleaver at Knives & Stones (probably other sellers carry them too).
> 
> +1 on chinese cleavers. In my experience, nakiris are cool but usage is limited. It does great with vegetables, but so does a gyuto frankly and doesn’t really bring with it any significant benefits (but some shortcomings).
> 
> ...



Thanks for finding that one! I am suddenly feeling the need to replace my Chinese hardware store inexpensive cleaver...!


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## Xenif (Sep 4, 2019)

Lazyboy said:


> I just picked up one of these from BST, becaus e I wanted to "try a nakiri or small cleaver". I love it, the height of this adds to its utility (for me). I may be on the slippery slope to selling everything and just having one CCK for everything (JUST KIDDING).
> 
> Unfortunately it's oos at KnS
> http://www.knivesandstones.com/kuro...nakiri-175mm-aogami-super-stainless-cladding/


I also have that knife, its an awesome knife , quite diffrent from any nakiri thou, much closer to the profile of a CCK with a wide bevel grind. 
Nakiris generally have a upswept "tip", the angle and curvature differs greatly between makers.


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## Cbt (Sep 5, 2019)

kdkrone said:


> CBT, I looked on the japanny.com website and saw a number of Yu Kurosaki nakiris. Do you have a specific one that you are recommending? (I like some of his aesthetics---just purchased a hammered 240 gyuto)



The one I was talking about is this: https://chuhamono.com/collections/yu-kurosaki/products/yu-kurosaki-aogami-super-cleaver-175mm

I actually bought mine from Syoukon Hamono after asking Xenif where he got his


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## daddy yo yo (Sep 5, 2019)

Was interested in a Bunka myself for a while. My favourite was a bunka from Syousin sold in 2 sizes at knivesandstones... Never bought one though.


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## kdkrone (Sep 5, 2019)

Cbt said:


> The one I was talking about is this: https://chuhamono.com/collections/yu-kurosaki/products/yu-kurosaki-aogami-super-cleaver-175mm
> 
> I actually bought mine from Syoukon Hamono after asking Xenif where he got his



Are the choil and spine polished/smoothed?


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## Koakuma (Sep 5, 2019)

kdkrone said:


> Are the choil and spine polished/smoothed?


I have few Kurosaki knives, all of them the spines are not rounded but the choils are.


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## Xenif (Sep 5, 2019)

kdkrone said:


> Are the choil and spine polished/smoothed?


Not really,on the choil it looks like some one tried to ease it but only succeeded one side


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## Cbt (Sep 5, 2019)

Like others have said they are not. Nothing a few minutes with a bit o sandpaper doesn't solve


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## Stnakamu (Sep 6, 2019)

I had the sane question as you let me know what you decide and how it goes. I was leaning towards a bunka but it sounds like a lot of people are saying cleaver or just try a nakiri


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## Cbt (Sep 6, 2019)

If you decide on a laser bunka, than either the Kotetsu or Shiro Kamo's Orca bunka seem very good choices


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## Travis petosa (Sep 9, 2019)

FWIW I have a 180mm comet bunka that I find myself grabbing more for smaller proteins I.e. chickens, small birds and small fish, Than any other knife in my roll. I find it not as great as a nakiri for veggies but far superior than my honesuki for small proteins. 

I also use it for starting cuts on larger fish (I’m not a fan of debas) and then switching to a larger knife for the rest of the fish.


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## josemartinlopez (Jul 26, 2020)

What do people like about a laser nakiri by the way?


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## NO ChoP! (Jul 26, 2020)

I always want to like nakiris, but they never find a permanent home in my kit. Bunkas just fit my style better. They can have rather delicate tips, though. So many use them as line knives, or small board knives, and they don't take well to being knocked around. 180 gyutos and sujis do better here, imo.


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## Matt Jacobs (Jul 26, 2020)

I have both a 165 nakiri and a bunka. I use the Nakiri 90% of the time as I love the weight and chopping. The Bunka is too lasery and light for my comfort. That being said I grab my Bunka 100% of the time if doing garlic, onion or shallots as I want the fine too. I think owning one of each is great it just depends on what you like to use more


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## btbyrd (Jul 26, 2020)

I have no use for a knife without a tip. Cleavers at least have a point, making it somewhat easier to segment things like cauliflower and broccoli. They're also longer and taller than nakiri, making them more versatile kitchen workhorses. I'd much rather use a santoku or bunka than a nakiri, even though the food I prep is primarily vegetables. I honestly don't see the point of nakiri, at least in my kitchen. They're short in length and in height, and tipless. To dice an onion, seed a pepper, de-floret brassicas, or even chop up a head of cabbage... there always seems to be a better knife type than the nakiri. I wish someone would tell me what they're especially good for apart from "vegetables." The plants I cut like it better with a bunka, gyuto, or cleaver.


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## Alwayzbakin (Jul 26, 2020)

I only have one knife in this category, a Takeda bunka, but I think it’s taught me some relevant things.

I used it as a service knife at a dessert cafe for a bit. I do like having such a thin light knife as a service knife and the AS/stainless cladding and relatively less pointy tip meant it was durable in chaotic moments. 

At home with less space I really love the small and tall bunka. However, I do like to chop and push cut a lot and even the gentle curve in the Takeda profile often requires a bit of rock in each stroke. For this reason, both at work and home I often prefer a knife with a flat spot for many prep jobs. I also eyed the Shibata for a while and heard great things but I think the next smaller/taller knife I get would have to have a flatter profile, like a yoshikane or mazaki. 

I also think what was said above about the weight rings true to me. For chopping I could see how the weight at the front of a nakiri could be more effective. Although my Takeda doesn’t haven’t a very prominent tip, it is still quite light and less front heavy than most nakiri’s. I could see how this could be a good reason to have both a nakiri and a bunka.


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## Qapla' (Jul 26, 2020)

btbyrd said:


> I wish someone would tell me what they're especially good for apart from "vegetables." The plants I cut like it better with a bunka, gyuto, or cleaver.


Maybe the answer is similar to that for the usuba, i.e., "Vegetables...if you're using specifically Japanese-style techniques upon Japanese-flavored choices of vegetables and/or operating within a specific Japanese-styled context"?

I've never tried de-seeding chipotle peppers using a nakiri or less-pointy edo-usuba.


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## nexus1935 (Jul 27, 2020)

I generally like nakiris more because of the flatter profile. But for work like dicing an onion, the tip of a bunka is useful (it would be much harder to cut to the same depth before the core with a nakiri).


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## msk (Jul 27, 2020)

nexus1935 said:


> I generally like nakiris more because of the flatter profile. But for work like dicing an onion, the tip of a bunka is useful (it would be much harder to cut to the same depth before the core with a nakiri).



I agree, especially when doing the horizontal slices on the onion before dicing (at least with my Tojiro nakiri). Without the tip, it's easy to experience wedging in this situation, since the spine ends so abruptly and doesn't taper off. The alternative is trying to slice horizontally into the onion with the flat edge, which is awkward, and all that blade contact can cause a lot of drag.


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