# Italian meatballs with sauce: ideas needed..



## ptolemy (Jan 15, 2018)

Hi 

Little backstory - my mother used to make meatballs when I was a kid (from scratch).. and they weren't that good. These days, it's easier for me to buy frozen, crappy ones... But, my friend is making hers from scratch and she always had issues - they either break up or too tough, so I want to make them for her. I never made them myself but I feel confident that I can improve on her disasters. Right now, I have no recipe but here are my thoughts so far:

1. meat- 80/20 beef only or 50/50% beef and pork?
2. basic research so far revealed that I have to use dop san marzano tomatoes.
3. Besides tomatoes, little sugar, what else to add? My thought was to use as base onions, celery, carrots (grated). Garlic, pepper flakes and tomato paste. Missing dry/fresh herbs? Cook maybe 30 minutes. 
4. Then make meatballs.. nothing to add yet, except I'd like to fry them dark brown add then finish cooking in sauce another 30minutes.

Please share your thoughts. Ideally, i'd like to be something I can cook gallon at a time, freeze and have her pick it up and use for later...

TIA


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## WildBoar (Jan 15, 2018)

Good luck with this -- it's a great way to spend part of a weekend.

1. Yep. Pick either, or even go for the beef/ pork/ veal combo. I grew up with the beef-only version, and that is still how I usually make them.
2. Eh, they are not a bad thing, but for 30+ plus I had/ made sauce with non-san marzanos, and it was fine (but we typically cook for a day).
3. Hold off on the sugar initially. It is not something we ever added, but it can help if the tomatoes you use are lacking some sweetness. Your list looks pretty good. We usually add some dried parsley, maybe a small amount of dried oregano and some dried basil. I also tend to add a cup of red wine for the last 30 minutes of cooking. Oh, and sausage. Definitely add some good italian sausage (browned first) so extra flavor.
4. Plenty of ways to go here. I grew up with meatballs being made with just ground beef, egg, white bread (or bread crumbs), salt and dried parsley. But these days when I make them I may use a ground meat blend, add some grated parmesan, add a dash of wine, add some pepper flakes, etc. Brown in a pan/ skillet, then add to the sauce. But I typically cook them in the sauce for several hours, and then let them them sit in sauce overnight. They will pull in some of the sauce, which makes them seem less dense and more flavorful (although I know some people prefer not to let they stay in the sauce, so the meatballs are more firm and taste 'beefier'.

You can't really go wrong if you follow the basic framework you already laid out. The rest is mainly ways to play to tweak the final taste and texture. There is no single right way, so try a few different mixes, dwell time in sauce, etc. Have fun!


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## gringoze (Jan 15, 2018)

I'd add. Don't press them too hard when forming them, otherwise, they get a tougher texture. Of course, since they are loose, when you place them in the sauce (if you don't bake them first), dont move them too much until they are cooked or you will wind up with a bolognese sauce:biggrin:

Also, I can't imagine making meatballs without some garlic in them, raw, roasted, powder - I want some garlic. 

Basically like WildBoar said - no right or wrong way. Oh... and definitely make it the day before and let it sit overnight.


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## StonedEdge (Jan 15, 2018)

Double grind the meat, if its not already done

Don't pack them too dense, aim for a light meatball

Beef/pork mix is a good way to add some flavor and fat, but veal can be used too as it retains most of its tenderness after cooking

Sugar and carrots? That's a lot of sweetness.


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## ptolemy (Jan 15, 2018)

I def wanted to add some pepper flakes, parmesan and garlic. I was also thinking a bit of Worcestershire sauce. I def don't want to press them to hard, but I imagine little harder than burger mix.

For sauce, I would not add sugar til I wasted. I also read somewhere that adding 1/4th tea spoon of baking soda close to the end (before adding meatballs), will also help with acidity. We both like acidity but feel like sometimes it can compromise the sauce if too harsh.


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## Paraffin (Jan 15, 2018)

My wife is the meatball cook in the house, but it sounds like your basic plan is good. Except for the sugar -- as others said, only add that as a final tweak of the sauce, and only if it needs it. Her meatballs are all beef, custom grind.

Speaking of which -- if you have the equipment (and time) for it, then grind your own meat at home. It makes a huge difference in texture, because the meat isn't compressed in plastic like store-bought ground beef (a little safer too; fewer cows in the grind). You can decide exactly the percentage of lean/fat beef you want with the choice of cuts to grind. I buy chuck steaks and sirloin steaks for grinding in the Kitchen Aid attachment, usually around 70% sirloin to 30% chuck for burgers, meatballs, and cabbage rolls. The grind comes out "fluffy" compared to store-bought ground meat, so you can decide exactly how much you want to compress it for cooking.


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## WildBoar (Jan 15, 2018)

D'oh -- how the heck did I leave out the garlic?

I usually mix in garlic powder or raw garlic squeezed through a garlic press.


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## panda (Jan 15, 2018)

cmon dave, never use garlic press use your j-knives to slice and then julienne and then mince!


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## parbaked (Jan 15, 2018)

This what I do. Based on my Neapolitan Nana's recipe...simple is better.

1. Make tomato sauce. You can make a large batch to use as a base sauce for so many recipes. I freeze 1 cup or 1/2 cup portions which are always handy.
Saute finely diced onions then garlic. Add a little tomato paste and cook that out. Add DOP San Marzano tomatoes. It's worth it. Most have a piece of basil in the can. Cento brand is widely available and not expensive. Simmer the sauce low while you start the other tasks. I don't add wine or herbs to this base sauce but add those later when I cook the meatballs.

2. Make meatballs.
I use pork, beef, egg, bread, parmesan and a puree of onion parsley and garlic. Soak finely cut or torn white bread without crust in a little milk (or water if you're poor like my Nana). Squeeze out the bread and save milk to add to meatballs mix if needed. Don't use store bought bread crumbs, especially not the one's with "Italian" seasoning. In a pinch you can use a slurry of panko and milk. Mix all this with the ground meat, cheese and veggie puree. Let this sit in fridge for at least 30 minutes for the flavors to meld and the bread to absorb liquids etc. Remove mixture from fridge and hand form meatballs (lightly as possible) when you are ready to cook them. 

3. Cook it!
I like to fry the meatballs off in a large saute pan or shallow pot. This way you get a lot of fond to flavor the sauce, especially if you included parmesan in the meatball mix. Brown the meatballs on all sides then remove. Sweat fine cut onions and garlic and red pepper flake in residual oil. Deglaze with white wine then add a few ladles of your base sauce. You can also add any leftover milk from the bread soaking if desired. Add back the meatballs and simmer for 20-30 minutes. I don't like to overcook the meatballs as they can loose flavor and texture. With all that fond, 20 minutes is plenty to flavor the tomato sauce, especially if you don't use too much. 

4. Serve...I like to serve the meatballs and pasta separately. 
Cook up your favorite pasta. Plate the meatballs on s platter with a dollop of sauce, fresh parmesan and some fresh parsley or basil and a splash of olive oil. Finish cooking pasta in remaining sauce. Plate pasta individually topped with parmesan, parsley/basil olive oil and fresh pepper. Serve each guest their plate of pasta with the platter of meatballs and a bowl of any remaining tomato sauce on the middle of the table to share.

Yes, they do taste even better the next day so make enough to have leftovers...Enjoy!


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## WildBoar (Jan 15, 2018)

panda said:


> cmon dave, never use garlic press use your j-knives to slice and then julienne and then mince!


ha ha, busted! :O

I usually pull the mix together next to the stove, and the garlic press and garlic cellar are right there; the cutting board and knives are ~10 feet away, and I can easily press the garlic in less time then it takes to grab a few cloves, walk to the board, cut off the ends and peel. Add in the mince time, clean cutting board and clean knife time and it is a no-go when going head-to-head with the press, where I do not even need to peel :biggrin:


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## pete84 (Jan 15, 2018)

Use day-old dry bread or panko instead of the breadcrumbs that look like powder in a can.

Soak the old bread/panko in milk and squeeze out the excess milk before adding to meatball mix. 

I like adding a little onion (very very small dice/brunoise), minced/microplane garlic, chopped fresh parsley, grated parm or pecorino, toasted pine nuts and a little red chili flake into the minced meat/egg mix. Usually a combo of beef and/or veal and pork. 

Sauce-wise, San Marzano tomatoes all the way. Cannot replicate the flavor. Avoid any canned tomato containing "Calcium Chloride" as it makes the tomato flesh firm and it won't break down into a smooth sauce.

Salt the whole san marzano in a bowl and crush them by hand after they soften, 20-30mins. Sweat onion and garlic in EVOO until translucent/soft. Add crushed tomatoes and a little white wine, along with a sprig of basil. Simmer/stir for an hour. Run thru a food mill to remove seeds and fibers. Results in a super smooth tomato "sugo" for stewing your browned meatballs to perfect doneness. 

Using a microplane to add carrots to the sauce before simmering adds natural sweetness, beats using sugar.

Good luck!


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## pete84 (Jan 15, 2018)

parbaked said:


> This what I do. Based on my Neapolitan Nana's recipe...simple is better.
> 
> 1. Make tomato sauce. You can make a large batch to use as a base sauce for so many recipes. I freeze 1 cup or 1/2 cup portions which are always handy.
> Saute finely diced onions then garlic. Add a little tomato paste and cook that out. Add DOP San Marzano tomatoes. It's worth it. Most have a piece of basil in the can. Cento brand is widely available and not expensive. Simmer the sauce low while you start the other tasks. I don't add wine or herbs to this base sauce but add those later when I cook the meatballs.
> ...



This is the Italian way! Love it great advice


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## Badgertooth (Jan 16, 2018)

parbaked said:


> This what I do. Based on my Neapolitan Nana's recipe...simple is better.
> 
> 1. Make tomato sauce. You can make a large batch to use as a base sauce for so many recipes. I freeze 1 cup or 1/2 cup portions which are always handy.
> Saute finely diced onions then garlic. Add a little tomato paste and cook that out. Add DOP San Marzano tomatoes. It's worth it. Most have a piece of basil in the can. Cento brand is widely available and not expensive. Simmer the sauce low while you start the other tasks. I don't add wine or herbs to this base sauce but add those later when I cook the meatballs.
> ...



This guy knows. [emoji492]


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## strumke (Jan 16, 2018)

What about opinions on making meatballs specifically to freeze?

Having a freezer of balls would make quick meals for my 3 yr old, but I want them to be good enough that I would want to serve and eat them as well.


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## StonedEdge (Jan 16, 2018)

strumke said:


> What about opinions on making meatballs specifically to freeze?
> 
> Having a freezer of balls would make quick meals for my 3 yr old, but I want them to be good enough that I would want to serve and eat them as well.


If you freeze them raw they (provided they are packaged and stored properly) should be good to go when you thaw them out. Same as freezing ground beef. You don't get that fresh af taste but it's more than acceptable. in my experience that is.


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## parbaked (Jan 16, 2018)

If you have to defrost the raw meatballs then it's not really going to be that quick a meal.
You might be better off to freeze small batches of cooked meatballs and sauce that you can reheat in the microwave or stovetop.


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## Paraffin (Jan 16, 2018)

Yeah, we freeze cooked meatballs when there's extra, so it's an easy meal. We don't freeze the sauce because it's so easy to start a new sauce from scratch, and sauce loses more taste than the meatballs when freezing and reheating.


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## panda (Jan 17, 2018)

freeze the meatballs and sauce in separate bags


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## ptolemy (Jan 25, 2018)

One thing I been wondering... fresh herbs or dried? I am leaning towards drives because not only they have to survive frying but also slow cooking for 30-45min after. Tell me I am wrong


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## WildBoar (Jan 25, 2018)

I primarily use dried in mine. With the long cooking time they work out fine.


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## parbaked (Jan 25, 2018)

Dry herbs in meatballs or sauce is optional but one should always garnish at the end with fresh herbs e.g. parsley or basil...


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## sloegin (Jan 25, 2018)

I guess I'm in the oddball in that I bake the meatballs instead of frying them.


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## labor of love (Jan 25, 2018)

I like to sear the meatballs, then deglaze, then add whatever red sauce Im using. All of this I do in a Dutch oven. Once the red sauce is added I put the lid on and let it bake briefly.


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## ptolemy (Feb 24, 2018)

I made a large batch finally... I did about 2/3rds beef and 1/3rds pork. I went with flap meat, chuck about 3lbs each and 2.7lbs pork boneless ribs or something like that. I grinded the meat and chilled overnight. Next add did about 1 pound freshly grated picorino dop cheese, 8 eggs, panade about 12oz milk + 8 slices of bread. lots of salt/pepper/granulated garlic and pepper flakes. mixed it (didnt realize how much it'd make, LOL).

I had to use 3 trays to mix... Made 3oz meatballs... probably close to 60. rolled by hand and fried it up. My friend was helping and she had an issue with it. She rolled about 10 and when I put 3 down to fry and went to turn, I saw them breaking up. I asked her to show me how she does it. Same as me, but just meat on outside is not smooth enough. I showed her how and it was fixed. Meatballs turned out VERY good. Didnt break in sauce but were tender and had good flavor.

My biggest issue was with sauce. I used dop san marzano 3 cans. Pureed them in processor (didnt wanna hand crush). Before that I put some bacon fat and cooked onions for 15-20min til just started to get brown. I added 3 table spoons of tomato sauce and cooked it for 5-8min mixing... Then added rocessed tomatoes and dried thyme (I added some parsley at the end too). Brought to simmer and cooked for 30min. Then, when I tasted, it tasted very bland, and tart. I added a bit of salt, sugar and 1/2 teaspoon.of baking soda. It didnt work. I added bit more of sugar and cooked about 45min (while meatballs were being formed and fried). 

After total of 90min, sauce still felt kinda layerless. I added my meatballs and cooked for 30min on simmer (brought pot back to temp and let it cook through for 20min or so). When I tasted it, it kinda mellowed out but still wasn't something special. My family agreed. Although next time, they said it was better but I imagine still missing something...

I still have 2 batched of meatballs fried/frozen, so I want to improve my sauce, but not sure how. Any ideas? I think I want it naturally sweeter and bit more flavor...


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## panda (Feb 24, 2018)

You want to brown the crap out of the onions, deglaze with water, let it get brown again and then do it again, and then again but with wine. Also, you forgot fried shaved garlic the sauce! Use oregano instead of thyme. Can tomato has a lot of water, you gotta reduce it longer. I also like to add fried tomato paste. Add some butter and more parm at the end.


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## Mucho Bocho (Feb 24, 2018)

Some vgood advise here. Panda's umami bomb balls. Don't forget the Lipton onion soup mix too. I like to mix it in a flour and lightly roll the balls in it before frying. 

Prob the best advise I could give you is to cook it one day. cool it completely. then slowly reheat it. Dishes with complex flavors, sauces, meats improve when rested. 



panda said:


> You want to brown the crap out of the onions, deglaze with water, let it get brown again and then do it again, and then again but with wine. Also, you forgot fried shaved garlic the sauce! Use oregano instead of thyme. Can tomato has a lot of water, you gotta reduce it longer. I also like to add fried tomato paste. Add some butter and more parm at the end.


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## WildBoar (Feb 25, 2018)

Panda nailed the sauce issues. I typically figure at least 3 hours of cooking, with the meat in the sauce for most of the time. Garlic is needed, wine is helpful, and some dried oregano also helps.


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## MarcelNL (Feb 26, 2018)

I like to add some finely chopped celery, a diced carrot and ground fennel seed, preferably the wild variety which is richer in flavor. Other than that +1 on Panda yet I usually don't need 3 hours to reduce, with some fried tomato paste, adding some vinegar or lemon juice usually does the trick to release all the flavors and you should be able to do wo sugar. Final touch is using a good extravirgine olive oil w grassy flavor profile.


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