# Bread Knife?



## Dave Martell (Oct 16, 2020)

I've been asked to make serrated bread knives for years by many people and I always answer with a "sorry - not going to happen". I feel like this type of thing is a small market but maybe I'm wrong, what do you folks say?

If I was going to make them I would basically serrate a suji. That'd be a 300mm Martell style suji patterned no-flex serrated bread knife. Does that sound attractive to you?

Would my custom maker price point kill it?

On serration pattern, would you prefer the typical pointed tooth German style or the Japanese (wavy) reverse scallop like seen on MACs?

I'd love to get some feedback on this, any opinions welcome, thanks!


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## Bensbites (Oct 16, 2020)

if people appreciate custom high end chef knives, why not a bread knife? I just sent cad files out to be plasma cut for my own bread knife. The serrations will be plasma cut in, I assume a slight bevel, then sharpening with a chainsaw file should give me a pretty nice bread knife.


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## daveb (Oct 16, 2020)

Next up, a Martell / Moritaka collab.

Speaking only for myself, I would not drop custom or even off the shelf pro prices for a bread knife. Working with a MAC 2nite and liking it. Gude comes out 2morrow.


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## Dave Martell (Oct 16, 2020)

daveb said:


> Next up, a Martell / Moritaka collab.








daveb said:


> Speaking only for myself, I would not drop custom or even off the shelf pro prices for a bread knife. Working with a MAC 2nite and liking it. Gude comes out 2morrow.


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## WildBoar (Oct 16, 2020)

A bread knife is one of our most used. The scalloped edge of the Tojiro is nice -- sharp points will kill a cutting board. $600 is probably the upper limit. I assume this would be stainless?


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## TB_London (Oct 16, 2020)

Not worth custom prices imo

tojiro with a decent rehandle is all the serrated knife I need


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## RockyBasel (Oct 17, 2020)

There is a Samurai Bread knife at Watanabe that I just looked at, but can’t justify the price- typical Watanabe style, it’s a beast 345 mm long, hand forged bread knife, white 2, but I need something that requires less maintenance. 

There is also some German guy, forget his name, that sells sword like German bread knives at steep prices, but they look destructive- name will come to me eventually


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## McMan (Oct 17, 2020)

TB_London said:


> Not worth custom prices imo
> 
> tojiro with a decent rehandle is all the serrated knife I need


+1. 
Though I'd also like to see what's up with the Mac that @daveb's talking about.


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## daveb (Oct 17, 2020)

MAC Superior. I like it a little more than the Tojiro ITK.


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## dafox (Oct 17, 2020)

Black Danish Raadvad Bread Slicer / Vegetable Cutter / - Etsy


An original black Danish vintage bread slicer / cutter. Its in good vintage condition with patina and age related signs of use, stamped Raadvad model 294. The Raadvad factory was founded in 1758 and was housed in an old watermill which supplied the power for the production. Raadvad specialised in




www.etsy.com


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## RockyBasel (Oct 17, 2020)

The daitoku aogami, forged bread knife is also interesting. Almost got it, but will also look at Tojiro

Here is a pic of the Daitoku - looks like the Jiro of bread knives









Daitoku Forged Aogami | 240mm Bread Knife (Walnut)


Something special from Daitoku Japan, this hand forged bread knife is uniquely crafted, completely by hand by Tomonori Akahata blacksmith. The handle is hand carved from walnut timber, it is larger than most handles but very comfortable. Each piece is a work of art and available in extremely...




protooling.com.au


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## Chuckles (Oct 17, 2020)

I would love to hear more about this. I would say it should be in the Tojiro/Mac style. CPM154 would be my choice unless resharpening is doable at home. A serrated knife with a patina would be cool. I would prefer a western handle. Like this one but serrated:







Pricing would obviously be a factor but I am highly interested.

The scallops would have to be added after heat treat right?


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## Dave Martell (Oct 17, 2020)

I would add the serrations/scallops after heat treat.

I'd use CPM154 as my choice for the steel although if someone wanted a 52100 bread knife I'd go there too.


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## Dave Martell (Oct 17, 2020)

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys!


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## panda (Oct 17, 2020)

expensive ass bread knife... if you do make one, you should make sure there is plenty of curve in the profile.


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## AFKitchenknivesguy (Oct 19, 2020)

I'm down with it. I have no problem paying custom prices for bread knives. Exhibit A:


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## Matt Jacobs (Oct 19, 2020)

I use my bread knife only a couple times a year so for me not interested.


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## Jville (Oct 19, 2020)

Hmmm. Im interested maybe I would buy, maybe i wouldnt. I am due to replace my 20+ year old Mercer.


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## Jville (Oct 19, 2020)

I would want to be able to sharpen it confidently or if i could send it to you to sharpen for free as part of the deal, i might be down.


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## ejd53 (Nov 12, 2020)

I would definitely be interested, depending on price etc. I would prefer a Japanese "wave" style serration pattern.


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## RockyBasel (Nov 12, 2020)

I would prefer stainless as everyone uses a bread knife in this family - right now we have aMiyabi birch wood, a Tamahagane, and some unknown. Also an Opinel!

but always looking for a really good bread knife - we buy fresh bread every day! Only lasts for a day or 2. Then we are at it again. I prefer the 270mm as some of the bread I buy from France and Germany (within 14 min drive) are quite large loaves
I looked at the Watnabe special and they have a couple of knives there

but stainless is best as whole family used zanthey get washed - never in dishwasher of course - but would require too much care of a carbon


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## Barmoley (Nov 17, 2020)

I think the market for it would be tiny. Even sujis of the same price sell much less than gyutos. Bread knife would be even less than that. Add to that that you can't easily sharpen these, nothing to polish, thin, etc and knife enthusiasts will loose interest very quickly and won't pay the high prices. I am sure there are a few that will pay $500-$600 for a bread knife, but when it really comes to it, I'd be really surprised if you could sell more than a couple.


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## RockyBasel (Nov 17, 2020)

There are some German teutonic bread knives selling for 500, I ran across them as I was looking for a 270 mm Tojiro btread knife


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## Barry's Knives (Nov 17, 2020)

to be honest, i hate flex in a bread knife and don't see the point in it - rigidity gives you more accuracy. For sure the Japanese reverse scallops work better, at least for me. The Daitoku knives are popular, but the blunt serrations have always put me off. The main issue would be sharpening, would be interesting to produce a knife like that that could be sharpened using an easily-available tool or undulated serration stone...or even a ceramic steel. I think a custom knife price would be too steep for most, but then it depends on how people actually find the knifes performance, if you're making the best bread knife out there, people will buy it.


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## Midsummer (Nov 17, 2020)

TB_London said:


> Not worth custom prices imo
> 
> tojiro with a decent rehandle is all the serrated knife I need





McMan said:


> +1.
> Though I'd also like to see what's up with the Mac that @daveb's talking about.



Maybe a Tojiro with a custom handle. That could be popular; as long as you don’t guild the lily. My 2 cents....


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## Moooza (Nov 17, 2020)

As a lefty, it's hard to find a dual bevelled bread knife. My only real option is the Windmühlenmesser.

A Martell dual bevel would be seriously considered ;-)


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## Bodine (Nov 17, 2020)

It seems like you may be leaning towards making one. Why not do so and see how you like the process, and how much demand there is for one. I would consider buying one just because it would become a collectors item due to lack of demand.


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## Luftmensch (Nov 18, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> If I was going to make them I would basically serrate a suji. That'd be a 300mm Martell style suji patterned no-flex serrated bread knife. Does that sound attractive to you?
> 
> Would my custom maker price point kill it?



Up until a year ago, I had very little use for a bread knife. Our bakery would slice our bread. I imagine that has become the norm? Supermarket bread is also sold pre-sliced. Those breads arent particularly crusty. _If_ I needed to slice some bread I would just use the nearest gyuto...

Last year I started making sourdough. After several loafs it became clear a bread knife was a must! Fresh bread with a thick and hard crust is too punishing on kitchen knives. Perhaps you could target the home baker and knife connoisseur?

I might be interested in:

>300mm (more length for a nice cutting stroke)
Rigid spine
Either stainless or _maybe_ a stain resistant carbon
Good wear resistance and toughness - for crusty bread and contact with a cheap cutting board.
Bread knives are quite damaging to surfaces so I have a dedicated (and now scratched up) cheap cutting board for bread.
Not actually sure what hardness is a good target... but I would happily trade off hardness for toughness. Carbide size doesnt really matter as much either!

Slightly curved design so it is easy to cut the bread right down to the cutting board (dead-straight bread knives suck)
Double bevelled (I am ambidextrous)

Here's the kicker though... I like handmade but there is a sweet spot somewhere between looking machine made and looking sloppy. Aesthetically, the teeth are a focal point of a bread knife. From an aesthetic point of view I would want this done well. A nice and even pattern to it. But time is money... this would be difficult for a craftsman to do quickly. So it would likely price me out of the knife... or make it uneconomic for a craftsman. Take Watanabe's Samurai bread knives as an example - *I* am not fan of the teeth... but others may be.


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## bkultra (Nov 29, 2020)

To small of a market IMO... There are two or three standards in this category (Mac/Tojiro& Güde). I would look into offering a customization option for one of the above (especially the Güde).


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## coxhaus (Nov 29, 2020)

I like handles to kind of match in my kitchen knives. I only buy Henckels and Wusthof classic knives as their handles are close in a knife block. I would not like an Asian knife handle with a German knife handle so you might get some customers to match their knives.


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## Ericfg (Nov 29, 2020)

Isn't a chef's/gyuto knife, a paring and a bread knife the recommended first three knife purchases? If so I'd think that would sell. Dave, what profiles are your biggest sellers? Are the basic profiles popular or do you sell more of the specialty-type knives?

I've used a lot of bread knives over the years and this style: https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Swiss-Serrated-Fibrox-Handle/dp/B00093090Y?ref_=ast_sto_dp is by far my fav. The length and the curve is what does it for me. IMO.

So if you keep the length and the curve, and then make the rest of the blade profile and the handle your own you might have something. Just my two cents.


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## toddnmd (Nov 30, 2020)

coxhaus said:


> I like handles to kind of match in my kitchen knives.


I like handles to NOT match. 

Nice thought to make these, I think a handful would sell. Yeah, it would be a niche item. I have a rehandled MAC that would be hard to let go of, though.


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## daveb (Nov 30, 2020)

toddnmd said:


> I have a rehandled MAC that would be hard to let go of, though.



Pro or Mighty Chef?

(Sry Dave)


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## toddnmd (Dec 1, 2020)

daveb said:


> Pro or Mighty Chef?
> 
> (Sry Dave)



Pro. 
(I’m sorry, too, Dave)


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## Knivperson (Dec 26, 2020)

I bake ryebread every single week and wheat bread 2-3 times a month and only a serrated knife can cut this. In Denmark, baking at home is a trend (although, of course, I have been baking for the last 6 years). With Claus Meyer and Noma and the whole new nordic cuisine, old grains have been popularized and everybody now knows "spelt" for instance. I think a similar development has taken place in the US, fx Chad Robertson in San Francisco. All of these sour dough artisan breads needs serration.

I have a Tamahagane and it cut's super nice, but it aint nothing special, the handle is micarta. I think it's this one:

SAN Tsubame Brødkniv 23 cm fra Tamahagane » Gratis Levering (kitchenone.dk)


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## Barry's Knives (Dec 26, 2020)

I have my eye on this: Florentine Kitchen Knives - Bread Knife - Scaled Blue/Black Handle - Satin Finish


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## curlycues (Feb 24, 2021)

I never thought I would spend more than, say, $30 on a bread knife but recently I bought this and love it: 








K Sabatier Tartine Bernal Collaborative 10" Chef Carbon Steel Olive Handle


K Sabatier / Bernal Cutlery / Tartine Bakery 10" chef with serrated tip. Drop forged carbon steel blade. Riveted olive wood handle with red and blue inner space




bernalcutlery.com





I just fell for it and am a sucker for olive wood handles. So one might think they'd never pay x amount for a bread knife but if the right bread knife came along you never know...


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## chiffonodd (Feb 24, 2021)

@Dave Martell I'm concerned that it is too much of a niche market within a niche market. There probably are a few people interested, and they are probably already hanging out in this thread 

My main issue with breadknives is figuring out how to sharpen them well at home. I've been using a MAC superior 270 bread knife for a few years. It sees so little use that I've never felt the need to sharpen it! But it's getting there what with all the crusty comfort bread of the last year in lockdown. Still, I will probably outsource sharpening to a local shop. And I *really* don't want to send a high end custom to a rando commercial knife place for sharpening.

So even though you'd think that I'd be drawn to a custom in CPM154 at like 61+ hrc for the wear resistance, I'm much more likely to stick with my MAC in boring old moly steel at 58 hrc and just give it to a local shop for sharpening.

Now a custom rehandle on the MAC bread knife? Uh yeah sign me up, but just not until my wife starts a new job this summer. Then it's go time 

All that said ... if you decide to make bread knives, I'm sure you'll find an audience for them here. It's just a question of whether you can scale it up to where you can do it profitably. And that's where I think things get dicey.


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## Knivperson (Sep 14, 2021)

Im still interested in a bread knife, @Dave Martell, preferably 330mm or even at bit longer and a stiff spine.


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## hendrix (Sep 14, 2021)

Blenheim Forge did a limited run of bread knives. They sold out quickly.


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## Knivperson (Sep 14, 2021)

@KAMON Knives also did some pretty sweet bread knives.


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## brimmergj (Sep 14, 2021)

Knivperson said:


> @KAMON Knives also did some pretty sweet bread knives.


I just had to look this up. OH MY...


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## cotedupy (Sep 17, 2021)

Bensbites said:


> if people appreciate custom high end chef knives, why not a bread knife? I just sent cad files out to be plasma cut for my own bread knife. The serrations will be plasma cut in, I assume a slight bevel, then sharpening with a chainsaw file should give me a pretty nice bread knife.



Your Gen1 bread knife would be the only knife in our house that gets used every single day .


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## Bensbites (Sep 17, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Your Gen1 bread knife would be the only knife in our house that gets used every single day .


Thanks. I need to get Gen 3 plasma cut.


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## coxhaus (Sep 17, 2021)

I have 2 Henckels bread knives with 2 different serrations. One Henckels is a 5star and the other is a Henckels 4star. I kind of think the Henckels 4star is more of a salami knife with a more aggressive cut. It is hard on cutting boards. I don't use them very much only for bread and salami.


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## Aidan (Sep 18, 2021)

I have both the Tojiro bread knife and a 10 inch Robert Herder “Ellenlang” with a simple cherry wood handle. A bread knife needs to be long and curved. The Robert Herder bread knife at about £60 wins hands down. If you want a bread knife this is a serious contender. I have to order from Germany. 








Windmühlenmesser Brotmesser Hochgeschliffen, rostfrei, blaugepließtet, Griff Kirs


Das Brotsägemesser von Windmühle ist in folgenden Griff Variationen erhältlich: Windmühle 2712.1000.020005 Brotmesser Ellenlang 26 cm Kirsche Windmühle 2712.1000.040005 Brotmesser Ellenlang 26 cm Pflaume Windmühle 2712.1000.050005 Brotmesser Ellenlang 2…




www.messerparadies.de


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## Knivperson (Sep 18, 2021)

I have a Tamahagane, which is very sharp, but way too short. I'd like my bread knife to be around 360mm for my homemade sourdough loaves. Being from Denmark, and being a home baker, I actually use a breadknife everyday. The whole family eats sourdough ryebread for lunch, and this needs cutting.

I'd seriously love a custom breadknife!


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## Bobby2shots (Sep 18, 2021)

Try a 10" Mercer Millenia; quite possibly the best performing bread-knife on the planet. Probably under $30. in the U.S. Ultra-comfortable and "grippy" Santoprene handle. It may not be "pretty", but it's a dream to work with.


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## Knivperson (Sep 19, 2021)

Todays loaf in desperate need of a custom made bread knife.


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## Dave Martell (Sep 19, 2021)

Knivperson said:


> Todays loaf in desperate need of a custom made bread knife.




That looks GREAT!


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