# Why a ceramic hone?



## llmercll (Dec 11, 2016)

I'm new to cooking and recently purchased some starter kitchen knives, a Victorinox Fibrox 8in Chef's and a Tojiro DP Gyutou 8.2in. I also purchased a fine and course king's whetstone.

I can't however make up my mind on the honing edge I'd like. I currently have an old steel with lines through it, but I've read they tear up the knife more than hone. I've read that ceramic rods take off bits of the knife too.

I'm not sure which one, or even type to get. I am thinking of going the messermeister ceramic as it's in my budget and a lot of people seem to be recommending ceramic.

Can someone help me?

Thanks!


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## Ivang (Dec 11, 2016)

I use a ceramic rod at work all the time ( I prefer a softer steel knife for the line) and it works great, I don't think it works the same with all knives, but it works great with my current set up, a couple of passes and it brings the edge back immediately, like that, I can go for a long time, close to a week even, with out sharpening.


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## milkbaby (Dec 11, 2016)

As a home user and not working in a pro kitchen, I prefer to strop on newspaper or touch up on the 6000 side of my King 1000/6000 stone. I have an Idahone ceramic rod but almost never use it.


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## Benuser (Dec 11, 2016)

The only ceramic rod that I know and actually works is the Sieger. It takes away some fatigued steel. Other rods rebuild an edge from fatigued steel, and that's no good solution. In a home situation you better strop on the finest stone. And if you don't have an immediate result, have the stone before it. Rods are an emergency solution in a professional environment.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Dec 11, 2016)

Rods are useful when you have neither the time, nor the space to use a stone or a strop to freshen your edge. Since you're a home user, I think you'll find little use for a rod. I would suggest a few trailing edge passes on your fine stone (also called "stropping on a stone"), when you feel the edge could use a touch up. You may also invest in a dedicated leather or balsa strop if you'd prefer something like that.

Rick


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 11, 2016)

The IKEA ceramic hone works OK on "modern western" stainless from my experience (it is also rather abrasive). Will probably do exactly what you warned about (tamp down tired steel in a bad way) if used on far harder steels - a softer shirogami I have (probably 60-62) can still be fixed with it, Yamawaka's shirogami or any blue steel or SG-2 tend to take a pseudo-edge that is quickly lost to total bluntness, even if some of these are ok with unloaded stropping.

In the end, it is a finishing stone in an awkward format. So does anyone have a good suggestion for a finishing stone great for in-kitchen touchups (no soaking, no frequent levelling, easy to wash off swarf, can be stowed away as it is instantly, and NO MESSY SLURRY that will find its way into every cleaning utensil)?


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## Benuser (Dec 11, 2016)

A dry Chosera 2k might be a better solution if finer ones fail.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 11, 2016)

Have no chosera/pro stone yet, indeed considering getting one, so they are good as "clean" stones?


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## Benuser (Dec 11, 2016)

What I did coming from work is stropping on a 8k, if that didn't work immediately go to 5 or 3k, and eventually to 2k, if needed. Just stropping and deburring.


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## llmercll (Dec 11, 2016)

Thank you for the input, you have been very helpful.

It was my understanding from my reading that a hone is used to "uncurl" a folded edge on a blade, and that this should be done weekly, and that it doesn't sharpen or remove material, just straightens the blade.

I read that sharpening on a whetstone only needs to be done every few months in the home.

But I suppose the point you guys are trying to make is that honing on a very fine whetstone gives the same result as honing on a rod?

Thanks again!


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## LifeByA1000Cuts (Dec 11, 2016)

Depends on the steel and hardness. 

Hard hones seem to work by bending the edge back and forth, ending up in the center hopefully with correct technique.

Softer steels (think german knives) can indeed roll, harder carbon steel (think shirogami) will be more elastic and will only bend very slightly, even harder and higher alloy steels (think aogami or SG-2) will eventually bend but with far more fatigue incurred - think bending aluminium, it is stiff but will end up very weak if you just bend it 90° cold.

So for the harder steels, a method (stropping) that more gently bends things back is far more effective - they need less bending, and can take less bending.


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## Pensacola Tiger (Dec 11, 2016)

llmercll said:


> It was my understanding from my reading that a hone is used to "uncurl" a folded edge on a blade, and that this should be done weekly, and that it doesn't sharpen or remove material, just straightens the blade.



A smooth hard steel rod may be used on lower HRC knives like Sabatier carbons (HRC 53-54), Globals (HRC 56-58), Victorinox (HRC 55-56) and Wüsthof (HRC 57-58) to straighten an edge that has "folded over" as you say. Eventually, the folded over edge will work harden and break off, and the knife must be sharpened on something abrasive to restore the V-edge.

Most Japanese knives are tempered to a higher hardness (>59) and the edge does not roll, but wears down or chips microscopically. A smooth steel will do nothing to bring back the edge of a Japanese knife, and may actually make things worse. For Japanese knives, an abrasive rod in skilled hands may be used to restore some performance until it can be properly sharpened on a stone.



> I read that sharpening on a whetstone only needs to be done every few months in the home.



As with everything, "it varies". You should sharpen when the performance of the knife has degraded to the point where you are dissatisfied with its performance. For many of the members here, that point may be reached after a period of only a few weeks. For you, it may be several weeks, or even months. 

Note that when "stropping" on a stone, you are really only polishing the edge, not sharpening it. A subtle distinction, but real, nonetheless.



> But I suppose the point you guys are trying to make is that honing on a very fine whetstone gives the same result as honing on a rod?
> 
> Thanks again!



Again, not quite. Using a stone gives you much more control and will usually produce better results. As was stated by _Benuser_, a rod should be considered an emergency tool in a professional environment if you are using a Japanese blade. 

Rick


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## Smashmasta (Dec 11, 2016)

> In the end, it is a finishing stone in an awkward format. So does anyone have a good suggestion for a finishing stone great for in-kitchen touchups (no soaking, no frequent levelling, easy to wash off swarf, can be stowed away as it is instantly, and NO MESSY SLURRY that will find its way into every cleaning utensil)?




Here's a pure S&G finishing grit from JKI. Hits all your marks, just don't throw it, haha. Too high grit? They've got a number of other ones that are pure S&G.

Not doing it for you?

Are you looking for something synthetic or natural? What's your budget?

Synthetic are usually much more economical, and appropriate for small face-paced kitchens. Combination stones are always a plus as they cost around what you would pay for one of those grits whole size, but you get the versatility of at least some range. On JKI alone there are 3 combo stones (well 4 but I don't think you want the expensive diamond stones): here's a cheap AND small psuedo S&G 1-3k one, and here's JKI's Gesshins combo. You can just splash water on the Gesshin combo and get away with it, especially if it's just for a quick touch up, although they say it's best after a 5 minute soak. Generally, the higher the grit, the less leveling you'll need to do, so I wouldn't really worry about the leveling that much unless you'll be doing your whole line's knives for them haha.

There's also the shapton glass stones which are obviously S&G and should never really require leveling.

For naturals, you're looking at more expense, but true S&G (at least for finishers), and in many user's opinions, a heck of a lot more depth in results (but the Gesshins for instance, are also great). They also rarely need to be leveled as fine finishers are generally usually hard. I'm happy to suggest some naturals, but take a gander at those synths first.


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## DanDan (Dec 12, 2016)

Thanks for the explanations in here guys, no wonder my ceramic rod works well on the old Henckels but doesn't do much on my J-knife. I feel a bit silly listening to the advice to buy it alongside my J-knife but maybe I'll pass it on to a family member if he's still working the line with a cheapo stainless by the time I get some stones.


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## Krassi (Dec 12, 2016)

For your family members this ceramic rod will be like science fiction sharpening ! So it will be in good hands..
i cant even hold a angle really good on the biggest jnat brick, so doing this freehand on a round stick is pretty optimistic with a jknife.. for German beaters its super!


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