# Gesshin set/ combo vs "holy trinity"?



## DanHumphrey (Apr 29, 2016)

In a couple of weeks I want to upgrade my stones; currently I have a King 1000/3000 combo that's on the small side. The options I'm considering are:


$135 - Gesshin 1000/6000 combo
$210 - Gesshin set (400, 2000, 6000s)
~$135 - "holy trinity" (Beston 500, Bester 1200, Suehiro Rika 5000)

As popular as I know that last option is, they seem to be most available from CKTG or Etsy (where the 500 is OOS), while the Gesshins are readily available. Are the Gesshins that much better, or go with the cheaper ones? Are the 400/500 enough to do thinning, or would I need something even coarser for that?

I know both options have lots of recommendations around here, but I hadn't seen a direct comparison, so I wanted to see what the advice was. I expect to be sharpening blue, white, and R2, for whatever difference that makes.


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## chinacats (Apr 29, 2016)

And the winner is behind door number 2. Seriously, this is the set that won't leave you wanting to upgrade anytime soon. BTW, if purchasing from Jon @ JKI it is always worth giving him a call to get his input--it's part of the service you receive and it will certainly be worth hearing even if you've already made up your mind. I have changed my decision after speaking to him in the past and always feel like it was a better decision after the added input.

That said, other options are both solid though my personal bias would not allow me to buy anything from tg. Should mention that the person who originally marketed these (#3) together was Dave Martell so you do know it's a solid set.


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## El Pescador (Apr 29, 2016)

I think that the Gesshin 3 stone set is probably the best feeling set as a whole. I am not a fan of the Beston as it seems to dish quickly. The Gesshin 400 wears really slowly for me. The Bester 1200 is a great stone and pretty much the benchmark that other stones are compared to. With that said, the Gesshin 2k cuts faster and and leaves finer scratches. I like to finish with that stone. As to the Suehiro, personally I don't like the feel of the stone although it seems to be universally loved. I think the Gesshin 6k is quicker than the Suehiro and doesn't feel as "glassy" to me.


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## DanHumphrey (Apr 29, 2016)

chinacats said:


> *my personal bias would not allow me to buy anything from tg*



Yeah, I wasn't planning on going there, but listing it because the place on Etsy is out of the Beston right now, and they popped up on a Google search. Since Dave stopped selling them they're not the easiest to find... outside of that other lovely site. I'd certainly be much happier to support Jon.

Thanks both for the replies; I'll probably go that way unless someone else feels strongly otherwise by the time I'm buying in a month or so


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## daveb (Apr 29, 2016)

I had both the Bestor line up and the Gesshin (though mine were .4, 2, and 4K) for awhile. Never liked the 500. Not even a little bit. Evolved to using the Bestor set for stainless Germans and the Gesshin set for knives. Eventually moved the Bestor set on.

FWIW you should at least consider Jon's 1 and 6K plates. You'll have to reach a little deeper but it's so worth it.


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## DanHumphrey (Apr 29, 2016)

How are the JKI plates better, specifically? Better feel, better finish, faster? Easier deburring? I've drooled over them before, but it seems odd somehow to think of a stone that just sits there and generates swarf, without soaking up liquid at all or wearing away.


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## chinacats (Apr 29, 2016)

Can only speak to the 1k, but feel is better than standard diamond plates. Extremely fast and convenient and leaves a very consistent scratch pattern. Cost a bit more but you won't need a diamond plate for flattening. I'm pretty sure Jon would recommend against it but can be used for light thinning as well. Only possible downside I would see for a beginner us that they require a very light touch.

Edit to add that I've used a couple of knives finished with his 6k and loved the edge it gave. I purchased the 1k more out if curiosity and can't seem to make myself sell it.


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## phonecall (Apr 29, 2016)

Fwiw, I had a good transaction with the etsy seller. (I went with the Cerax 1000 and Rika 5k.). Same day shipping, priority mail, packaged well, takes PayPal. 

That's just a data set of one, but there aren't many other reviews of that seller so I thought, I'd share my experience. 

(I don't know enough about sharpening or have enough experience with other stones to give a review of the Cerax.)


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## Matus (Apr 29, 2016)

I also have the Gesshin 400, 2000, 6000. Great stones. The 400 is on the softer side, muddy and wear relatively fast (IMO), but would work great on wide bevels. The 2000 is the best stone I have used. The 6000 is silky smooth. It just so happens that I prefer bit more bite so I got the Gesshin Synthetic natural (if you want even more bite, get the Gesshin 4000). But these 3 stones are really solid. I have not used the other stones.


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## mqphoto (Apr 30, 2016)

Of course nr 2 man. Go with Gesshin stones, fast and wonderful to work with. 

In your lineup you have the 6000s, never tried it. I have the soaker one.

Just you know, there is nothing wrong with the hole trinity lineup. In the end it's all about how good you are and not how good the stones are. So if you feel you are ready I will say lineup 2 and 3 is very good otherwise stick with kings and master your skills first. 

Good luck.


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## Smurfmacaw (Apr 30, 2016)

I've got both the gesshin 2k soaker and the diamond plates. Frankly, the 2k stone is probably the fastest and best feeling stone i have.....faster than a shapton glass 1k and faster than the diamond 1k (In my opinion). The diamond plates are nice since they are alway flat and ready to go....maybe 20 seconds with the nagura once in a while but other wise really nice. The edge by the 6k diamond stone hurts like hell if you cut yourself though...not sure why that's the case but it is!! (ask me how I know.)


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## malexthekid (Apr 30, 2016)

If you want to fork out the extra cash you can't go past the jki 1k/6k plate set. So quick. Nice feel and basically no wear.


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## TheDispossessed (Apr 30, 2016)

I would concur that the Gesshin 2k is a very pleasant stone, if i had to keep just one i suppose that would be it. it's fast/coarse enough to set a bevel but leaves a totally usable edge on double bevel knives. the feedback is nice and the hardness is right where i like it, it's got a little give and makes some mud but doesn't gouge or dish really at all. The Gesshin 4k is also quite nice, and is where i'm happy to finish my double bevel knives for now, I experimented with higher grit synthetics and found they offered almost no functional advantage, just made things shinier, which these days i'm less fond of anyways. going back to the 2k, for a synthetic stone, it leaves a decent looking 'kasumi' finish as well.


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## toufas (Apr 30, 2016)

How about option #4 jns 300/1000/6000?


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## daveb (Apr 30, 2016)

#5. JNS 300, 1K, Syn Aoto.

So many stones. So little money uh, I mean time.


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## DanHumphrey (Apr 30, 2016)

toufas said:


> How about option #4 jns 300/1000/6000?



That looks like it gets to the same price as the JKI diamond 1000/6000 plates, which would likely be my preference. Do you think they're better than the diamond plates?


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## toufas (Apr 30, 2016)

DanHumphrey said:


> That looks like it gets to the same price as the JKI diamond 1000/6000 plates, which would likely be my preference. Do you think they're better than the diamond plates?


No idea! I am in the market for a similar setup and I was thinking about the jns combo as I am in europe to avoid customs etc.


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## SolidSnake03 (Apr 30, 2016)

I've used the Gesshin set and the "Holy Trinity", didn't like the bester/bestin/rika set to be honest. Much preferred the Gesshin but that said, I preferred my JNS 300->JNS 1000->JNS 6000 to the Gesshin. I ended up actually trading the JNS 1000 and selling the JNS 6000 mostly because I'm never satisfied and wanted to try something new.

That said, I now used the JNS 300->Chosera 800->Chosera 3000 or Balsa strop with 1M Diamond Paste. 

I would have been completely happy with the JNS set and like how hard it was and how it was splash and go over the Gesshin. Also the JNS set seemed to leave a really nice toothy edge which I preferred to the Gesshin which was more polished.


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## Keith Sinclair (May 3, 2016)

I agree skills are more important than stones. Like sharpening on the gesshin soakers. Pay a little extra coin & get them you will not regret it.


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## DanHumphrey (May 5, 2016)

Well yes, skills are more important than tools (as in basically everything), but I wasn't looking to not work on that as well. The local shop (Metier) has a sharpening class every few months that I want to take, but it fills up in less than an hour, so there's more than a bit of luck in getting in. On top of that, I did grow up with carbon knives and sharpening them by hand, so I'm not exactly clueless here.


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## Chuckles (May 5, 2016)

The Gesshin 2K on its own would be a big upgrade over your current set up.

Even slow dishing corse stones dish when doing repairs or thinning. How would you be flattening your stones in your future set up? Perhaps an Atoma or DMT plate would be worth considering to take the place of the 400 initially. 

What kind of knives do you use and for what purposes? All double bevels? If you are a gyuto for almost everything kind of person the gesshin 4K is a fantastic stone to finish with.


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## DanHumphrey (May 6, 2016)

I have a generic pink flattening stone I use to flatten; nothing on the level of an Atoma.

Knives are currently a 240mm Tanaka blue2 and a 170mm Takamura R2 santoku (for the girl, though I occasionally use it when the Tanaka is just rather long). Looking to add a white steel petty as well. Mostly used on veggies, but not exclusively. Double-beveled, yes.

I also have a wedge-monster Sakai Takayuni Aoniko, that I may either give away or take a stab at thinning (and then probably give away).


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