# Carbon k sabatier in a pro kitchen



## cheflife15 (Sep 7, 2016)

Curious if anyone uses this in a pro kitchen. I'm usually using Japanese gyutos at work but I was thinking about picking one of these up for giggles. It seems like they have low hrc. I'm curious how sharp they get and how often they need sharpening.


----------



## zetieum (Sep 8, 2016)

I am not working in Pro kitchen (home cook), but I have a carbon K sab. It is typically a knife to use with a honing steel. Before I cut something, I just put it on the steel one tine each side (less than 5sec altogether). I put it on the stone (wicked edge actually) twice on year at 1000. Super easy to sharpen.


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Sep 8, 2016)

zetieum is this one from modern or antique forgings?


----------



## zetieum (Sep 8, 2016)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> zetieum is this one from modern or antique forgings?



modern


----------



## cheflife15 (Sep 8, 2016)

zetieum said:


> modern



How about the level of sharpness? Can we cut chives without bruising? I can definitely sharpen well, I'm curious about edge retention and how great an edge I can get.


----------



## Rayuela (Sep 8, 2016)

You can get a fabulous edge on a sabatier, very fast, and the profile is perfect, but the edge won't last and it'll always be much more wedgy than a good j-knife.


----------



## supersayan3 (Sep 8, 2016)

Get a Misono Dragon for a profesional kitchen.
Becomes easily very sharp, hardness is good for every task.
It has 100% pure French profile, with a perfect tip.
You will not feel that you have moved from a French to a Japanese knife.
I prefer Masahiro Carbon metal bolster though, but you will feel strange maybe till you get used to it. At blue way Japan they describe the steel if Masahiro as ZCD-U, original carbon steel, 1,05 carbon, vanadium, tungsten, I think it is white 2, or something very very similar. I don't know which steel like more. They seem the same to me and I love them both, I think they are better than the Swedish Misono steel which I also like.

Concerning edge retention with carbons don't expect much, if you are cutting acidic foods among others as well, 
But they are my knives of preference, because if you have a stone in the kitchen, with a touch up they become top sharp in less than a minute

You will be amazed by how they cut chives [emoji4]

They give Masahiro 58-59 hardness and Misono 60-61, but Masahiro is harder.

Both knives have perfect hardness for every task in the kitchen, you will find chips, or consider them soft


----------



## Benuser (Sep 8, 2016)

Edge retention can be greatly enhanced with a single sided micro-bevel. With soft carbons I cut them on a 2k stone. For sharpening and maintenance you can go up to 8k.


----------



## Benuser (Sep 8, 2016)

imgurl

Or consider a Herder 1922 chef's, Rc 60. Profile is very close to the French, tip is even lower than with most modern French blades. Grinding is much more consistent.


----------



## cheflife15 (Sep 8, 2016)

Yeah, I have a million j knives. I only wanted one of these for fun. Howeevr if they can't really hold it in professional kitchens I'll probably try something else


----------



## Benuser (Sep 8, 2016)

They will hold in a professional kitchen if adequately used and maintained. They have always been used in French professional kitchens. The knives Escoffier used were just as soft. They get crazy sharp because of their very fine grain.


----------



## zetieum (Sep 8, 2016)

Rayuela said:


> You can get a fabulous edge on a sabatier, very fast, and the profile is perfect, but the edge won't last and it'll always be much more wedgy than a good j-knife.



- Definitively super sharp edge that is not lasting as long as in J-knives. I do not find that they are wedgy, more on the contrary actually. 
- As mentioned micro-bevel helps
- As I wrote, it is a knife that is made to be honned regularly. Look at french chef, they just have a steel around them systematically. 
- Those a re fun knife, IMHO


----------



## supersayan3 (Sep 8, 2016)

Sorry for the recommendations then [emoji4]

I d also like to correct what I had written: you will NOT find chips


----------



## Benuser (Sep 8, 2016)

Nothing wrong with your recommendations!
Please be aware that the French have a very pronounced distal taper.


----------



## cheflife15 (Sep 8, 2016)

Recommendations were appreciated! I have a idahone ceramic rod, I imagine that won't Do The job?

I'd also be picking up the 8 inch carbon from here. 
http://sabatieroutlet.com/t/authentic-carbon-sabatier-knives


----------



## Benuser (Sep 8, 2016)

Your ceramic rod will certainly do, but you may maintain it at a much higher level of refinement as well. Think a fine stone, or loaded leather.
Make sure to sharpen your new knife when it comes. Start behind the edge with a coarse stone. Ignore the existing factory edge.


----------



## Benuser (Sep 8, 2016)

I would have chosen a larger one.


----------



## cheflife15 (Sep 8, 2016)

Benuser said:


> I would have chosen a larger one.



I havent purchased it yet. I work in fine dining so I usually have a 210mm gyuto that handles my knife work. I was gunna get the 8 inch because its similar.


----------



## Benuser (Sep 8, 2016)

I should have said that the distal taper is very pronounced with old French ones, not so much with recent ones.


----------



## easy13 (Sep 8, 2016)

Wouldn't use one for a heavy ass prep day, but for a day where you are light on prep Sab is fine and nice change of pace. Have a 10 inch chef, 6 inch petty and a nogent parer in my rotation (be it the bottom of it). You can beat the **** out of them without trepidation or remorse and they take a killer heavy patina.


----------



## panda (Sep 9, 2016)

if they didnt have stupid fingerguard bolster, i would get a 10" one as there are times when softer steel is useful to have around.


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Sep 9, 2016)

"Please be aware that the French have a very pronounced distal taper."

I guess it comes from the good food...


----------



## Marek07 (Sep 9, 2016)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> "Please be aware that the French have a very pronounced distal taper."
> 
> I guess it comes from the good food...



Very funny! :rofl:


----------



## Iggy (Sep 9, 2016)

Benuser said:


> Or consider a Herder 1922 chef's, Rc 60. Profile is very close to the French, tip is even lower than with most modern French blades. Grinding is much more consistent.



Really good alternative! Edge retention and geometry are decent. Only sold mine because of the bolster.

How about not so classic K-Sabatier? The 200/8 line?

Quite decent stainless steel with not so bad edge retention and good robustness, ok geometry, interesting profile (please avoid the ebony handles due to f&f issues with the wood!).

Regards, Iggy


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Sep 9, 2016)

There's the bolsterless 7in, antique forged.... just the handle looks boring.

Anyone got the 6 inch nogent? Looks so much like a large petty in the pictures for some reason, is it usable as one?


----------



## Sharpchef (Sep 9, 2016)

I use Herder 1922 and some old DICK Carbons at work..... Especially when it goes to the evil old plastic cutting boards, they kick nearly any steels butt! (steeled any hour ).

Greets Sebastian.


----------



## Benuser (Sep 9, 2016)

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> There's the bolsterless 7in, antique forged.... just the handle looks boring.
> 
> Anyone got the 6 inch nogent? Looks so much like a large petty in the pictures for some reason, is it usable as one?



https://s19.postimg.io/l0vr06ych/DSC_0112.jpg
Narrower than most petties.


----------



## Benuser (Sep 9, 2016)

http://www.cookfoodgood.com/?p=409


----------



## Vangelis (Sep 9, 2016)

I have a 10' Sabatier K au carbonchef knife and I love it - it is my beater knife at home (home cook only) and I am not afraid to abuse it. It holds its edge nicely as long as remember that it is a "soft" steel - usually I will stop on a soft takashima and then I strop it on a leather strop before using it.

The bonus for a pro-kitchen is the low reactivity  

As for the finger guard, it is annoying but personally i dont care so much (yet). If someone doesnt like it, you can always remove it - maybe with a file (to avoid over heating)

V


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Sep 9, 2016)

You could use this trizor to cut through all the knives listed and it would still slice paper. The steel and HT are astonishing. I want the extra tall on so bad

Chef'sChoice Trizor Professional 8" Chef's Knife https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001172C8O/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Sep 9, 2016)

So these Trizors are hard, blade heavy and delicate. Says a negative review. So even the 1-star reviewer has to admit they are kkf-crowd-worthy


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Sep 9, 2016)

Life, It is a true european profile. Prob not as flat a Sab. though. They are nicely balanced, have a high bolsters so can be sharpened from chin to tip. They're convex ground 50/50. Which I've changed to 30/70 and it wasn't easy. I had just got the Edge Pro at that time. The feel of the 220 stone against this slippery unbelievable hard stainless was excruciating to grind. I think I wore ear plugs. 

But this mono-steel is so impressive. I've used it to crack open king crab legs with no blade deformation. It is not an easy steel to get hair shaving sharp, but when you do, it will hold an edge with the best steels. Its truly stainless too. This is the only knife I have from my original kit some 20 years ago--if that tells you anything.


----------



## Benuser (Sep 10, 2016)

What steel is it? 440C perhaps?


----------



## Mucho Bocho (Sep 10, 2016)

I can't say Ben I'm not really that knowledgeable with steels. Gator might know?


----------



## Benuser (Sep 10, 2016)

On a lot of stainless, I have standard German 1.4116, 440C, Gin-3 or 19C27 in mind -- NOT AEB-L, 13C26 or 12C27 -- the chromium carbides provide some toothy kind of sharpness you may like or not. Very different from the fine grained sharpness basic carbons as here discussed can offer. The stainless are much more abrasion resistant, and their edges don't react too much with acids. Sharpening though is rather unpleasant, with a difficult deburring.


----------



## LifeByA1000Cuts (Sep 11, 2016)

You must know some GOOD 1.4116 to compare it to 440C ... or maybe we are all romanticizing 440C and Gin3...


----------



## Benuser (Sep 11, 2016)

I haven't compared 1.4116 to 440C or Gin-3. Reread my post. I only took one aspect they have in common. No comparison in between.


----------



## rick alen (Sep 26, 2016)

I don't know about Gin3 but there is no comparison between 1.4116 and 440C, that latter is far superior in every way, except being more abrasion resistant on the stones. There are actually some cheap Chinese knives coming through will steel comparable to 440C, relatively fine grain for stainless and hard with very good edge retention.


----------



## carlmartensson (Oct 6, 2016)

I use a sab k carbon chef knife 12 inch for everyday prep at my work in a proffesional kitchen It works great, the first thing i did when i got it was sharpening a new edge factory edge was bad


----------



## Benuser (Oct 17, 2016)

I've yet to see any good factory edge -- but indeed, the French carbon ones are terrible.


----------



## Steampunk (Oct 18, 2016)

Benuser said:


> I've yet to see any good factory edge -- but indeed, the French carbon ones are terrible.



You can say that again! Grinds can be pretty wabi-sabi, as well... Best factory edges I've seen have been on some of the Spyderco kitchen knives; standard coarse belt finish with a buffed microbevel, but very well executed. Tons of bite, but they can shave, and doesn't fade instantly. These are typically what I recommend to people who have never had a sharp knife in their lives, as OOTB they're assured a pretty usable edge. Not spectacular knives by the standards of this forum, but pretty thrilling for the average home cook with a block full of dull Chicago Cutlery. 

- Steampunk


----------



## panda (Dec 2, 2016)

Just bought a 10" k-sab from amazon, will report back how it handles.


----------



## Benuser (Dec 4, 2016)

panda said:


> Just bought a 10" k-sab from amazon, will report back how it handles.


Looking forward to it!


----------



## TopperHarley (Dec 4, 2016)

i don´t have one but after i saw the pictures in a review from the german knife forum i really want one because it´s a damn good looking knife :knife:
http://www.messerforum.net/showthre...e-Carbon-K-Sabatier-30CM-Kochmesser-1950-1960


----------



## merlijny2k (Dec 5, 2016)

I have a 10" stainless sab and in some way i like the profile better than my Eden gyuto. Considering how old that profile is and how natural it felt from the first time i used it i wonder if there is anything really better profile wise. Equivalent sure but really notably better? Still among the best imo.


----------



## merlijny2k (Dec 5, 2016)

Big carbon Sabs all sold out on Amazon for a while now. You seem to know a place i dont Panda


----------



## panda (Dec 5, 2016)

Carbon 8" and 10" were both in stock at the time I placed my order. The remaining stock must have been bought up once I posted about it here. &#128513; I know of another source if you are looking to get one. 

The best profile is masamoto ks and I haven't tried anything nearly as good shape wise. Next best was a tanaka ginsan 270.


----------



## Benuser (Dec 5, 2016)

Have a 250mm carbon with sabatier-k.com


----------



## Benuser (Dec 5, 2016)

And put a one-sided micro-bevel on it


----------



## chinacats (Dec 5, 2016)

There's a K-Sab outlet in SC.


----------



## daveb (Dec 5, 2016)

Pedro Sez: Buy a Sab! Best for z bull!


----------



## chinacats (Dec 5, 2016)

LOL, almost worth a drive just to read the signs. 

Unfortunately, I believe the outlet is on the opposite end of the state from my direction.

Nogents are about the same distance in the other direction from my place. (Thebestthings)


----------



## merlijny2k (Dec 6, 2016)

There's a european webstore with stock but i'm good dor now. Upgraded from one to two magnet strips recently and they are both full. Trying to decide what to let go and the next buy will be a cleaver. Havent tried that yet and im quite curious.


----------



## panda (Dec 16, 2016)

so i am really digging the k-sab and a bit disappointed i didn't get one sooner. the profile is great and has good taper. now i just need to find somebody that will fully round the spine and knock off the bolster for me without costing more than what the knife costs


----------



## Benuser (Dec 17, 2016)

Any pics?


----------



## panda (Dec 17, 2016)




----------



## labor of love (Dec 17, 2016)

Dang. I like the way you thinned that misono. You can throw that Sab in the trash though


----------



## panda (Dec 17, 2016)

yeah the miso (soup? hehe) works pretty good now. 
the sab is great, other people wont use it when i leave it sitting around cause its huge and theyre intimidated. and even if they do, no big deal it will take abuse. i need to adjust the grind asap though, stuff always gets stuck on the damn blade.


----------



## Benuser (Dec 17, 2016)

Nice, thanks, Panda!


----------



## labor of love (Dec 17, 2016)

labor of love said:


> Dang. I like the way you thinned that misono. You can throw that Sab in the trash though



Just kidding btw. Sabs have great profiles, but those fingetguards are disgusting.


----------



## panda (Dec 17, 2016)

Yeah that's the whole reason it held me back from getting one from the start.


----------



## merlijny2k (Dec 19, 2016)

I have a sab with fingerguard (diamond, not K), and i find it takes a pinchgrip just fine. It's pretty much useless i give you that but it doesn't bother me either. Taper is extremely bad though. Find me using it less lately for that reason. Only for meat it is still acceptable.


----------

