# Are there any noiseless coarse grit stones?



## Carl Kotte (Apr 29, 2019)

Hi all,

as the title suggests, I am looking for advice on a noiseless (well, less noisy will do) coarse grit stone (say something between #120-#400). I have been restoring a lot of knives recently - some of which have been in terrible condition with serious chip issues. Long story short, my family cannot stand the sound of my Ohishi # 220 (anything coarser is of course even worse). And since there is no way for me to sharpen without them hearing me (we have a small apartment), I have been forced to do a lot of work on my #1000. Poor stone: it will soon have vanished completely. And, though I am too stubborn to admit it, silly me doing all this time consuming work on a stone which makes me see results much slower than what is ideal. 
So, noiseless stones: hit me, please!
(As a reference: I consider e.g. Shapton glass # 1000 silent enough).


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## Matus (Apr 29, 2019)

Could you do the coarse work in a cellar (if you have one)? All fast coarse stones I know produce more noise than the slower ones. Maybe Shapton Pro 1k could help? If is smooth enough and very fast. Or maybe the Gesshin Diamond 800 stone, but even if the price would be acceptable, you should still talk to Jon whether it would be the right choice for you.

Did you consider using sandpaper? I am not sure about the noise, but it would speed you up.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 29, 2019)

Matus said:


> Could you do the coarse work in a cellar (if you have one)? All fast coarse stones I know produce more noise than the slower ones. Maybe Shapton Pro 1k could help? If is smooth enough and very fast. Or maybe the Gesshin Diamond 800 stone, but even if the price would be acceptable, you should still talk to Jon whether it would be the right choice for you.
> 
> Did you consider using sandpaper? I am not sure about the noise, but it would speed you up.



Hi, thanks for the input!

Unfortunately, no cellar (nothing that even remotely resembles a man cave at all).
A Shapton Pro 1000 might be great! I’ve heard many nice things about it. Unusually good feedback for a 1k stone right (at least that is what I have heard).

I did use sandpaper, but it made me unpopular. My son made me promise never to do that again.


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## Barclid (Apr 29, 2019)

Shapton Glass 220/320/500 are all much quieter than your standard 200~ brick. Sigma Power 400 isn't too bad either. Shapton Kuromaku 320 isn't bad either, but it dishes a bit fast for my taste when doing heavy thinning.


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## Ivan Hersh (Apr 29, 2019)

I might suggest a natural corse Arkansas oil stone. Using oil will hold down the grinding sounds a lot.


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## Matus (Apr 29, 2019)

Or you just buy your family a set of decent over-ear headphones and put on some nice heavy metal


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## Marek07 (Apr 29, 2019)

Matus said:


> Or you just buy your family a set of decent over-ear headphones and put on some nice heavy metal


That would be a cruel and inhumane solution!


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## Nemo (Apr 29, 2019)

Marek07 said:


> That would be a cruel and inhumane solution!


He did say NICE heavy metal [emoji56]


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## Marek07 (Apr 29, 2019)

Nemo said:


> He dis say NICE heavy metal [emoji56]


I'm sorry - that would be an oxymoron!


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## slickmamba (Apr 29, 2019)

Maybe head out to a makerspace somewhere in stockholm(https://www.makerspace.se/), see if they'll let you hang out without paying, haha.


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## Benuser (Apr 29, 2019)

I found the sound of the SG320 more acceptable than other coarse ones.


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## Knife2meatu (Apr 29, 2019)

Super Stone 220 is really rather quiet, for the aggressive grit size. Chosera 400 sounds smoother than some 1k stones; it's really quite fine for a 400 though; still, it is going to be much faster than any 1k, including the Shapton Pro 1k, which I compared it to because OP mentioned the latter; not for speed but rather for sound, and they're very close to one another.

If OP is intending on doing mainly edge grinding -- and has or is willing to start a permasoaking setup, I find the soaked King 300 sounds very smooth; quieter than the Shapton Kuromaku 320 and 220 for sure, albeit slower than both as well. Speaking of which, Shapton Pro/Kuro 320 is noticeably quieter than the 220 -- and I'm also noticing, a lot less thirsty.

But back to the Naniwa Super Stone/aka. Sharpening Stone/aka. Gouken Kagayaki 220: it is the single most splash and go of all the above mentioned stones; so if silence is at a premium, the ability to only minimally add water during sharpening might be an advantage. I'd say it would be a good choice if mainly looking for something to thin or work on larger areas -- for mainly bevel work I'd say King 300, Chosera 400 or Shapton Pro 320; the first if willing to soak, either of the other 2 if not. Compared to these, the King and Chosera are smoother sounding than the Super Stone; the Shapton 320 is about the same for working small sections (which is always louder, I'm noticing) and a little louder than the Super Stone if grinding a larger flat area -- the Super Stone's thick, persistent mud muffles the sound a little; not that I've ever cared to notice this fact before now.

Finally, because the Super Stone 220 absorbs so little water and its binder isn't likely to deteriorate or harden if the slurry is left to dry on top, I find that if used like that I can immediately have a thick head of mud going as soon as it is picked it up later -- its slurry is a particularly thick colloidal suspension.

Finally, in case you think you may want to use it, as I've described, by letting the slurry dry out on top between uses; consider acquiring the Japanese Domestic market version, the Gouken Kagayaki (part#NK-2202, is the more desirable 20mm version -- I think) which comes in a nice enough plastic case/holder, reminiscent of the Shapton Pros, and which makes storing the wet stone with the slurry on top, preserved for the next usage, a painless affair.

Hmmm. That was more than I'd set out to write. I'd be curious to hear how the Glass Stone 220 sounds compared to the Super Stone 220, if anybody has both of those handy.


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## Bert2368 (Apr 29, 2019)

Teach your family to enjoy the wonderful sound of steel on stone using classical conditioning as per Dr. Pavlov?

(Children: Knife grinding noises = ICECREAM TONIGHT!!!)


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 30, 2019)

slickmamba said:


> Maybe head out to a makerspace somewhere in stockholm(https://www.makerspace.se/), see if they'll let you hang out without paying, haha.



Interesting!


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 30, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> Super Stone 220 is really rather quiet, for the aggressive grit size. Chosera 400 sounds smoother than some 1k stones; it's really quite fine for a 400 though; still, it is going to be much faster than any 1k, including the Shapton Pro 1k, which I compared it to because OP mentioned the latter; not for speed but rather for sound, and they're very close to one another.
> 
> If OP is intending on doing mainly edge grinding -- and has or is willing to start a permasoaking setup, I find the soaked King 300 sounds very smooth; quieter than the Shapton Kuromaku 320 and 220 for sure, albeit slower than both as well. Speaking of which, Shapton Pro/Kuro 320 is noticeably quieter than the 220 -- and I'm also noticing, a lot less thirsty.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the elaborate answer. This is very helpful.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 30, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Teach your family to enjoy the wonderful sound of steel on stone using classical conditioning as per Dr. Pavlov?
> 
> (Children: Knife grinding noises = ICECREAM TONIGHT!!!)



This is an alternative approach I should consider, yes. In the end, there might be downsides though. All things considered, this proposed solution may not save me money (it will require a lot of ice cream) , and it might turn my children into sugar monsters, and - last of all - I will have to come up with a special bribe for my wife. Ice cream won’t do it. That said, I will consider it.


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## mikaelsan (Apr 30, 2019)

OR, you could insulate something like this, they'll feel so bad for you you'll be back on sandpaper in no time


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 30, 2019)

mikaelsan said:


> OR, you could insulate something like this, they'll feel so bad for you you'll be back on sandpaper in no time



Is that the most reasonable expected outcome? Would they feel bad for me, or would they laugh at me?


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## playero (Apr 30, 2019)

Bert2368 said:


> Teach your family to enjoy the wonderful sound of steel on stone using classical conditioning as per Dr. Pavlov?
> 
> (Children: Knife grinding noises = ICECREAM TONIGHT!!!)



That would be Pavlov technique?


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## rickbern (Apr 30, 2019)

World of difference in sound between my 250 coarse cheap grinding stone from Korin and a JNS 300.

That being said, I live in a one room loft with an open kitchen, I use it when I'm home alone.


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## CoteRotie (Apr 30, 2019)

I would start digging the man cave. You might even get lucky and find some good natural stones during the excavation.

The comedian Sebastian Manascalco does a funny bit where his friend is bragging about his man cave. "You're bragging about your man cave? Yeah? My father had a man cave. We called it 'the house.'"

In all seriousness, Jon at JKI would probably be a great resource to talk to.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 30, 2019)

CoteRotie said:


> I would start digging the man cave. You might even get lucky and find some good natural stones during the excavation.
> 
> The comedian Sebastian Manascalco does a funny bit where his friend is bragging about his man cave. "You're bragging about your man cave? Yeah? My father had a man cave. We called it 'the house.'"
> 
> In all seriousness, Jon at JKI would probably be a great resource to talk to.



Yeah, all this restoring was for one and one purpose only: making the knives sharp and clean enough to use as hatchets when digging my man cave in the cellar... I think it is mainly cement or concrete. Think a deba will hold up?


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## CoteRotie (Apr 30, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> Yeah, all this restoring was for one and one purpose only: making the knives sharp and clean enough to use as hatchets when digging my man cave in the cellar... I think it is mainly cement or concrete. Think a deba will hold up?



Maybe if it's a Kamikoto deba.


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## Chef Doom (Apr 30, 2019)

I have 2 solutions.

1. Send the family off to the mall with no money.

2. Be a man and not concern yourself with the complaints of dependents.


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## M1k3 (Apr 30, 2019)

Nanohone 400 is super quiet. There's a 200 coming out. Never tried that though.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 30, 2019)

Chef Doom said:


> I have 2 solutions.
> 
> 1. Send the family off to the mall with no money.
> 
> 2. Be a man and not concern yourself with the complaints of dependents.



Ah, I was kind of anticipating this kind of response. I prefer a tweaked version of your nr. 2. Namely, to be a responsible loving father concerning myself with complaints when appropriate: this time it means, to buy a silent whetstone. It is a win-win. I get a stone, they get the enjoyable sound of silence.


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 30, 2019)

CoteRotie said:


> Maybe if it's a Kamikoto deba.



Nope, sadly it isn’t.


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## SeattleBen (Apr 30, 2019)

Nobody has suggested that you try using an atoma 140 for awhile to make the coarse stone sound better?


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## valgard (Apr 30, 2019)

SeattleBen said:


> Nobody has suggested that you try using an atoma 140 for awhile to make the coarse stone sound better?


hahahahaha, that's genius


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 30, 2019)

SeattleBen said:


> Nobody has suggested that you try using an atoma 140 for awhile to make the coarse stone sound better?



Nope, you were the first person to point that out. Thx!


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## Carl Kotte (Apr 30, 2019)

M1k3 said:


> Nanohone 400 is super quiet. There's a 200 coming out. Never tried that though.



Oh, that sounds great!!!


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## SeattleBen (Apr 30, 2019)

In all seriousness I also live in a small apartment with my wife and she doesn't hate the sound of the Shapton pro 320.


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## Barclid (Apr 30, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> Oh, that sounds great!!!


I've tried the Nanohone 200. Sound-wise it's about on par with the Shapton Glass 220. Definitely quieter than your average ~200 grit green/pink brick.


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## inferno (Apr 30, 2019)

I think almost all C stones are quite noisy.


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## Knife2meatu (Apr 30, 2019)

Those 150/200-ish bricks all seem pretty loud, be they 'black' silicon carbide, green silicon carbide or pink alundum; Crystolon and India as well.


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## Chef Doom (Apr 30, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> Ah, I was kind of anticipating this kind of response. I prefer a tweaked version of your nr. 2. Namely, to be a responsible loving father concerning myself with complaints when appropriate: this time it means, to buy a silent whetstone. It is a win-win. I get a stone, they get the enjoyable sound of silence.


That is the coward's way out. The father must instill strict discipline.

You can also have them meditate to learn to ignore the rough sound of grinding metal.


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## Carl Kotte (May 1, 2019)

Thanks everybody for the great input! A stone will be ordered soon.


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## Carl Kotte (May 4, 2019)

Ended up with a Shapton glass # 220. Of all recommendations it turned out to be the cheapest and quickest option for me (no shipping cost, no vat, etc etc). It is great. Thanks a lot!


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## Knife2meatu (May 4, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> Ended up with a Shapton glass # 220. Of all recommendations it turned out to be the cheapest and quickest option for me (no shipping cost, no vat, etc etc). It is great. Thanks a lot!


How much did it cost, everything included, if you don't mind the question?


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## Carl Kotte (May 4, 2019)

I don’t mind, but the answer may not be very interesting: since I live in Sweden, supply is limited. CleanCut is in Sweden. They store Shaptons and have pretty reasonable prices.


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## Carl Kotte (May 4, 2019)

Carl Kotte said:


> I don’t mind, but the answer may not be very interesting: since I live in Sweden, supply is limited. CleanCut is in Sweden. They store Shaptons and have pretty reasonable prices.



This came out a bit short: hope it is possible to fill in the blanks... (my son is kicking me in the head right now, so I had better stop typing).


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## Knife2meatu (May 4, 2019)

@Carl Kotte : It's just that I've read Shapton Kuromakus and Glass Stones are roughly the same price in Europe; and given that I don't really know what the popular vendors and the market is like -- I usually just think to check Fine-Tools.com and they don't sell the Glass Stones.


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## Carl Kotte (May 4, 2019)

Knife2meatu said:


> @Carl Kotte : It's just that I've read Shapton Kuromakus and Glass Stones are roughly the same price in Europe; and given that I don't really know what the popular vendors and the market is like -- I usually just think to check Fine-Tools.com and they don't sell the Glass Stones.



Ah, I see. I think it is more or less correct that the prices for Kuromakus and Glass are the same in this part of the world. Fine-tools is excellent. They have great prices. With shipping cost included it is a close call (for us Swedes at least) between them and CleanCut.


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## adam92 (Jan 2, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Nanohone 400 is super quiet. There's a 200 coming out. Never tried that though.


Have you tried suehiro coarse stone before ?

Shapton pro 220 vs Nanohone 200?


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## M1k3 (Jan 2, 2020)

I haven't. I've tried Shapton Pro 120, Naniwa SS 220, Nanohone 400 (old formulation) and Shapton Glass 500. Glass 500 was the quietest.


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 2, 2020)

Sg220 was quiet and good as promised. Even better was the mounted Shapton Pro 120 although it wasn’t as quiet. Compared to the old Ohishi 220 the Pro 120 is a mild whisper though.


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## M1k3 (Jan 2, 2020)

The 120 Pro isn't terribly loud either, especially for the grit. Added bonus of less time needed grinding metal. Naniwa SS 220 was similar in noise, but removed metal slow, but created lots of mud...


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 2, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> The 120 Pro isn't terribly loud either, especially for the grit. Added bonus of less time needed grinding metal. Naniwa SS 220 was similar in noise, but removed metal slow, but created lots of mud...



Agreed. The 120 is pretty quiet - very quiet for the grit. No one’s complaining when I use them [emoji14]


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## adam92 (Jan 2, 2020)

I've heard Shapton pro 120 dish faster than 220, which one should i get?

My sp 320 dish soooo fast


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 2, 2020)

I have the m24 Shapton 120. It doesn’t dish fast at all. The sg220 dishes much faster.


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## da_mich* (Jan 2, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> I have the m24 Shapton 120. It doesn’t dish fast at all. The sg220 dishes much faster.



Yes the Shapton Pro 120 is definitely not a good stone. I hate him! After a few sharpenings the stone gets very very glassy. I tryed to fix him with Atoma Diamond plates, Sandpaper, Corundum....... The only way that works a litte bit is a 40 grit corundum in combination with a stone for grinding paving stones. I never buy Shapton Pro stones! The best low grit stone in my opinion is the King/Sun Tiger 240. It´s a extremely fast stone but it needs a lot of flattening. This is the price for high speed sharpening. Flattening is very fast because its a soft stone. The 240 stone is a huge stone 205 x 75 x 50 mm. Sorry for my bad english


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 2, 2020)

da_mich* said:


> Yes the Shapton Pro 120 is definitely not a good stone. I hate him! After a few sharpenings the stone gets very very glassy. I tryed to fix him with Atoma Diamond plates, Sandpaper, Corundum....... The only way that works a litte bit is a 40 grit corundum in combination with a stone for grinding paving stones. I never buy Shapton Pro stones! The best low grit stone in my opinion is the King/Sun Tiger 240. It´s a extremely fast stone but it needs a lot of flattening. This is the price for high speed sharpening. Flattening is very fast because its a soft stone. The 240 stone is a huge stone 205 x 75 x 50 mm. Sorry for my bad english



Oh, I like the M24. But I recognize parts of what you say. The surface is very hard and feels glassy after a few minutes. It also loads up pretty fast. That said, there’s a lot to like. It is fast, pretty quiet and leaves... hmm terrible scratch marks [emoji16]


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## DisconnectedAG (Jan 7, 2020)

Dude, have you tried the Shapton Glass 500? It's not super course, but still cuts very fast and it may be relatively quiet.


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## Carl Kotte (Jan 7, 2020)

DisconnectedAG said:


> Dude, have you tried the Shapton Glass 500? It's not super course, but still cuts very fast and it may be relatively quiet.



Nope, I haven’t but thanks for the suggestion! [emoji1303]


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