# New Steels



## WillC (Apr 15, 2016)

Will need a chance to test them but have ordered some interesting and new to me steels for different projects.


A slightly different steel in the carbon tungsten alloy spectrum. Less tungsten than 1.2442 but a good dollop more carbon.

- carbon 1,3 %
- chromium 1,0 %
- molybdenum 0,3 %
- tungsten 1,3 %
- vanadium 0,2 %
Looks very promising and have no doubt it will be another super cutter, but will see if I prefer this or 1.2442, I only want to use one steel in this category and my aims are very specific. As much edge stable hardness as possible, without loosing sharpen ability.
Heat treat will be along the same lines of the 1.2442 so will have something finished very quickly to try in this. Will be using it in san mai only.

If I like it will just term it Catcheblue  Probably makes more sense than all the numbers... well actually the numbers do make sense but Catcheblue might be more catchy 

SC125, Superclean carbon steel,1.25% carbon, thats it! Its very clean.

Will be using this for Honyaki style knives, all forged including bevels to enhance the shallow hardening properties ,water quenched with clay coat for hamon. Might even dig up some clay from the forest of dean to use in the hamon mix as its very red and dense, see if it has any special properties in making a nice hamon, though I'm sure temp and technique will be most important  Looking forward to this project, will have something done for the next Gathering.


Niolox

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/lohmann/niolox.shtml

Nice sensible looking stainless, I have a feeling it will be a little more in the tough category for my current carbon tastes, but hoping it shows less edge distortion than aeb-l at full hardness when super thin with barely a touch on microbevel , I actually hope it is a little larger carbide than aeb-l actually, just a touch, and if its less prone to distortion on HT/temper/grind that would help too.

I will be attempting to forge it as well which is always lots of fun with stainless :scared4:

So I might well not like it just because I'm spoiled for great carbon stuff and have very specific aims....but will give it a go and if at least I like it as much as 14c28n and have less heat treatment distortion battles..... then will HT in small batches only on preorder probably for small Gyutos.

But that won't be for a while, these things take time when juggling projects.

Thanks All


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## Mucho Bocho (Apr 15, 2016)

Exciting news Will. You know we'll all be on the lookout for that new carbon steel


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## ecchef (Apr 15, 2016)

Looking forward to this!


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## DanHumphrey (Jun 2, 2016)

Catcheblue... I like it! If the steel lives up to your hopes, of course.


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## Sharpchef (Jun 18, 2016)

Sorry you are wrong WillC.....

The SC125 contains at least some Manganese (0,8%), but this is even better for hardening, i tryed it by myself and it is a lot easyer to handle then the Ultraclean SC145 from Achim.

Very good stuff, Japanese Steels are gonna be kicked in their butt.... 

Greets Sebastian.


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## WillC (Jun 20, 2016)

It has manganese correct but ,Not 0.8 that would make it into something quite different.... from the horses mouth.

The alloy content of this steel is:

C = 1,23 %
P <= 0,01
S <= 0,0075
Si <= 0,075
Mn = 0,56 %


Been using and testing the steel for a while now, very impressive indeed.

[video=youtube;Fex497iV_Mc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fex497iV_Mc[/video]



[video=youtube;jL6RDbWGR-w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL6RDbWGR-w[/video]


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## Matus (Jun 20, 2016)

Very interesting will. Makes me wonder though which steel is that Catchblue is and where do you get it from  Does it have better availability than the 1.2442?


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## Sharpchef (Jun 21, 2016)

Achim Wirtz is the Dealer and manufacturer of that superb knifesteel, you can get 1.2442 from him too!

Greets from Bavaria,
Sebastian


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## Matus (Jun 21, 2016)

I know (I actually bought some 1.2442 from Achim and also send him my carbon blades for HT), I just have not seem anything quite 'Catchblue' in his offer.


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## WillC (Jun 22, 2016)

To summarise my initial thoughts on the sc125, I will make some direct comparisons to old stock white 1, that is white 1 from a Japanese makers family stash I was lucky enough to use. Im quite sure the most important thing when using and tweaking a steel over many years to your specific aims , is batch consistency of steel production. It is why Japanese makers will buy at a certain point and stock hold a large quantity from a certain batch produced. Sc125 is a very small batch steel so will be much higher tolerances.
SC125 is certainly intended less as a specific Kitchen knife steel. White 1 is the way it is for a reason, the carbon levels promoting hardness at the expense of toughness is quite deliberate to the steels characteristics on a thin edge. Most importantly that it can not distort, and you will see no distortion even at the edges of a chip, this characteristic as well as the fine even carbide distribution promote ease of sharpen ability, at high hardness relatively quick on the stones and sheds its burr very cleanly, again this is a feature of reduced toughness, higher carbon , no alloy other than a low manganese content the steel falls quite specifically into the water quench category. 
SC125, a slightly lower average carbon content, higher manganese than I realised, falls on the cusp of an fast oil/water quench category, makes it less specific, but more versatile. The lower carbon and the manganese also promote higher toughness, whilst making it a bit more user friendly my own findings were what you would expect with higher toughness, the steel is much harder to chip, I was very happy to see that at high hardness there was no distortion around the chip. So for me thats a winner. The toughness however slightly reduces the sharpenability, the bur clings just that touch more, and it is perhaps a little tougher when it comes to thinning, really feels beautiful on the edge and as you can see in the video once down to thinness I'm using a high natural to thin that last bit into the edge as well, so over all though its a joy to use. 
The use of any steel is going to depend on your aims, and ultimately depends on the skill of the maker to get as close to their objectives as possible by adjusting their process. Take 01 as an example, it is a specific cutlery steel, due to its most common use, in tools and utility knives you will find most follow a factory heat treatment for an edge stable 61 hrc and a high level of toughness, where as using and adapting the heat treatment to your specific aims for chef knives it can be used at close to full hardness its one of the finest carbide steels out there whilst keeping the toughness and greater edge holding of a low alloy tungsten steel like blue 2, I personally rate it much higher than blue 2 but of course it just lacks that exotic hook, being as common around here as Blue 2 is in Japan. ......, infact its general use and guidance lead to its full potential being largely unexplored in high end Chef knives. 
The point is not to chase something because it seems rare or fancy or has a high this content or low that content unless you understand your specific aims with a steel. I have been waiting a long time for a steel like this to become available with certain aims in mind, and on the tungsten alloy front, I have been developing heat treatments for tungsten alloy steel over the course of many years now, their routes being in 01, the higher tungsten steel heat treatments I have developed specifically with san mai in mind and certainly what works for me is going to be on the verge on "tough going" for someone looking to make ground mono steel knives, I certainly would not want to be using it in this way, but each to their own, we all follow our own methods and find our own solutions and compromises, no right or wrong way if you can achieve your aims.
Im certainly looking forward to playing with sc125 more to see what further potential I can unlock. Overall its a fantastic steel, if seemingly initially a little less focused that white 1, but that has advantages and disadvantages depending on your goals and point of view


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## Matus (Jun 22, 2016)

Will, that is a very valuable information - thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.


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## Timthebeaver (Jun 22, 2016)

WillC said:


> To summarise my initial thoughts on the sc125, I will make some direct comparisons to old stock white 1, that is white 1 from a Japanese makers family stash I was lucky enough to use. Im quite sure the most important thing when using and tweaking a steel over many years to your specific aims , is batch consistency of steel production. It is why Japanese makers will buy at a certain point and stock hold a large quantity from a certain batch produced. Sc125 is a very small batch steel so will be much higher tolerances.
> SC125 is certainly intended less as a specific Kitchen knife steel. White 1 is the way it is for a reason, the carbon levels promoting hardness at the expense of toughness is quite deliberate to the steels characteristics on a thin edge. Most importantly that it can not distort, and you will see no distortion even at the edges of a chip, this characteristic as well as the fine even carbide distribution promote ease of sharpen ability, at high hardness relatively quick on the stones and sheds its burr very cleanly, again this is a feature of reduced toughness, higher carbon , no alloy other than a low manganese content the steel falls quite specifically into the water quench category.
> SC125, a slightly lower average carbon content, higher manganese than I realised, falls on the cusp of an fast oil/water quench category, makes it less specific, but more versatile. The lower carbon and the manganese also promote higher toughness, whilst making it a bit more user friendly my own findings were what you would expect with higher toughness, the steel is much harder to chip, I was very happy to see that at high hardness there was no distortion around the chip. So for me thats a winner. The toughness however slightly reduces the sharpenability, the bur clings just that touch more, and it is perhaps a little tougher when it comes to thinning, really feels beautiful on the edge and as you can see in the video once down to thinness I'm using a high natural to thin that last bit into the edge as well, so over all though its a joy to use.
> The use of any steel is going to depend on your aims, and ultimately depends on the skill of the maker to get as close to their objectives as possible by adjusting their process. Take 01 as an example, it is a specific cutlery steel, due to its most common use, in tools and utility knives you will find most follow a factory heat treatment for an edge stable 61 hrc and a high level of toughness, where as using and adapting the heat treatment to your specific aims for chef knives it can be used at close to full hardness its one of the finest carbide steels out there whilst keeping the toughness and greater edge holding of a low alloy tungsten steel like blue 2, I personally rate it much higher than blue 2 but of course it just lacks that exotic hook, being as common around here as Blue 2 is in Japan. ......, infact its general use and guidance lead to its full potential being largely unexplored in high end Chef knives.
> ...



Outstanding post.

Thanks for the woo-busting, knowledge, expertise and practice.

New members in particular would do very well to read/be directed to this.


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## patraleigh (Jun 22, 2016)

Thanks you Will for New Steels information. Very interesting !! I'll Looking forward to this.

Pat.


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