# Does Chan Chi Kee/CCK still exist?



## Kamelion (Apr 12, 2017)

Dear forumistas,

after getting a plethora of helpful tips in another thread, a helpful forum member tried calling Chan Chi Kee to ask for prices when buying in the store in HK, but he got no signal whatsoever on the phone. I have also tried mailing them, without answer.

This poses the question for me: Do they still exist? Or have they secretly changed address and all contact data? Does anyone live in the area or often pass by, and could check, or know anything about them, or has bought knives there and also know the prices 

A friend is going to HK next week toI hopebuy some knives, but would not like to send him to the address if it does not exist. Would be glad to hear from you and appreciate any help I can get! 

Edit


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## ynot1985 (Apr 12, 2017)

As far as I know, they have been on shanghai street, Yau Ma Tai for years.. they are located in an area that are full of kitchenware/ restaurant supplies.. it would be strange to move away from that area. What are you after? I can give them a call tomorrow. I don't live in Hk but I go and check out CCK every time I'm there to visit family.

Have you tried calling both numbers on here http://www.chanchikee.com

The webpage says that the wan chai store has closed and please go back to the shanghai street store


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## Kamelion (Apr 12, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> As far as I know, they have been on shanghai street, Yau Ma Tai for years.. they are located in an area that are full of kitchenware/ restaurant supplies.. it would be strange to move away from that area. What are you after? I can give them a call tomorrow. I don't live in Hk but I go and check out CCK every time I'm there to visit family.
> 
> Have you tried calling both numbers on here http://www.chanchikee.com
> 
> The webpage says that the wan chai store has closed and please go back to the shanghai street store



My friend tried both numbers  no signal at all. Also no replies to several emails during the last year. I am after a few cai daos, thin cleavers. Would very much appreciate any help from you!


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## toddnmd (Apr 12, 2017)

I'd be very surprised if the Shanghai St store closed down.


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## ynot1985 (Apr 12, 2017)

I'll try tomorrow.. you have model numbers?


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## Kamelion (Apr 12, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> I'll try tomorrow.. you have model numbers?



The models, from this pagewhere you can see the translations for finding the right model,that are of interest are:
KF 1102
KF 1302
KF 1401
KF 1912


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## Blen (Apr 12, 2017)

In November last year the Shanghai street store was still there and very bussy....


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## Kamelion (Apr 12, 2017)

Blen said:


> In November last year the Shanghai street store was still there and very bussy....



Thank you, very nice to hear.

What were the prices, for something usual like, say, a 1303 or 1102 (or anything else)?

Price estimation is the whole reason I have tried to contact them, but in vain.


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## ynot1985 (Apr 12, 2017)

Kamelion said:


> The models, from this pagewhere you can see the translations for finding the right model,that are of interest are:
> KF 1102
> KF 1302
> KF 1401
> KF 1912



Called ... Number works

KF 1102 - $HKD 420
KF 1302 - $HKD 290
KF 1401 - $HKD 310
KF 1912 - $HKD 320

open 7 days a week . 9am -6.30pm

They might close early the next few days due to the Easter public holidays


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## Kamelion (Apr 13, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> Called ... Number works
> 
> KF 1102 - $HKD 420
> KF 1302 - $HKD 290
> ...



In case you didn't know: you're the hero of the day!

Do you speak Cantonese, or did they actually understand English?


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## ynot1985 (Apr 13, 2017)

I speak Cantonese..


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## TheCaptain (Apr 13, 2017)

I feel so inadequate...


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## Kamelion (Apr 13, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> I speak Cantonese..



In another great forum, in this thread:

https://www.chinese-forums.com/foru...fy-if-the-store-chan-chi-kee-陳枝記-still-exist/

there is a great tip in the 6th post, by abcdefg, about the shop and manufacturer &#26753;&#28155;&#20992;&#21424;

One comments says quality might be even better, prices also.

Now the question is, how would one describe, write and transliterate the knife types in Cantonese.

1102 - large but very thin kitchen slicer (cai dao?)
1302 and 1912 smaller but as thin vegetable slicer (also cai dao ?)
1402 - bone chopper

Would be my descriptions in English. I am a bit unsure about what is what here: 
&#33756;&#20992;
&#26705;&#20992;
&#25991;&#27494;&#20992;

And then we have
&#20999;&#29255;&#20992; (slicing knife?)
&#26025;&#20999;&#20992; (chopping knife?)
&#26025;&#39592;&#20992; (bone cleaver?)

Especially confused about what cai dao exactly is, and if kitchen slicer and vegetable slicer both are the same thin "dao" only different size and lengtj-width-ratio.

And then in Cantonese ...


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## Kamelion (Apr 13, 2017)

Could it be that

&#25991;&#27494;&#20992; is the medium-thin all rounder that CCK calls "kitchen chopper",
&#25991;&#20992; the thin slicer (Cai dao?), CCK "kitchen slicer" (1102) and/or "vegetable slicer" (1302), and
&#27494;&#20992; is a bone chopper (1402)?

Are these in Cantonese orthography?


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 13, 2017)

I my version of life for those of us that don't read Cantonese and maybe for many that do is the best way to pick a cleaver is actually handling them. I haven't been to Hong Kong since 69 and a military R&R (past through there on flight connections several times) but I have been to main land China a couple of times in the last few years. Just picking the cleavers up and deciding what they were for is how I selected the ones to bring home.


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## ynot1985 (Apr 14, 2017)

Kamelion said:


> In another great forum, in this thread:
> 
> https://www.chinese-forums.com/foru...fy-if-the-store-chan-chi-kee-陳枝記-still-exist/
> 
> ...



Oh Leung Tim is the shop in the 6th post.. it's been in ssp for yonks.. I go to ssp often as it it the computer/ electronic hub of Hk. Problem is Leung Tim are run by an old couple who were not so friendly the last time I visited.. CCK was a lot friendlier in my opinion. Ironically Leung Tim has an Australian store just 5 mins down the road from my place. Run by their son who is a lot friendly then his parents but the markup is a lot more as compared to what you pay for in Hk. 

Cai Dao in Chinese basically means vegetable knife.

In most Chinese kitchen, the Cai Dao is the sole knife in the kitchen. It does everything. 

Sorry, can't help you with the terminology, most of the time I just go there and point at the knife and ask the old man at the counter what that's for


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## ynot1985 (Apr 14, 2017)

Kamelion said:


> Could it be that
> 
> &#25991;&#27494;&#20992; is the medium-thin all rounder that CCK calls "kitchen chopper",
> &#25991;&#20992; the thin slicer (Cai dao?), CCK "kitchen slicer" (1102) and/or "vegetable slicer" (1302), and
> ...



I'm already confused when they used this term &#25991;&#27494;. It's like a term used centuries ago describe someone who is academically gifted (&#25991;as in writing) and also gifted in martial arts (&#27494; as in fighting). I have no idea how this relates to a kitchen knife lol


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## MikeHL (Apr 14, 2017)

I'm a pretty bad cantonese speaker but will try to help. Its been around 3 years since I been to CCK but this is how I bought a knife (KF1103) there . 

Cai Dao translates to vegetable knife. Its a generic term that all used to describe Chinese vegetable cleavers, sort of like "kitchen knife" in western terms. 

The slicers (&#29255;&#20992 are called Pein(or Peen like peening hammer) dao, or slicing knives. Pein in cantonese is the act of slicing. As a general note most cantonese households don't have a thin slicing cleaver, they would just use a all purpose cleaver for everything. 

When you go to CCK to buy a knife they will ask you what you will be doing with a knife, if you say a all purpose knife they will steer you to the med thin knife. If you want a thin slicer, tell them you want a thin knife or you want to cut thin slices of food. Then they will ask if its for home (small) or restaurant (large) use. After that they will hand you a couple knives, if you want carbon you can ask for a knife that "rusts" (told you my cantonese was bad). 

95% of the people who buy knives at CCK will not know the exact model number of what they want to buy, its thier way of ensuring you buy the knife that you need, kind of like the KKF questionnaire. Alternatively you can just print out the page on the CCK site, circle what you want and hand that to your buddy. 

When I was there, there where defiantly some western tourists buying knives (mainly duck slicers) so I'm sure they have a English speaker in the shop, even if there isn't one I'm sure a local can help you out. Hong Kong was a english colony until 1998 so the younger generation speak decent english.


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## ynot1985 (Apr 14, 2017)

I can say with certainty that Hong Kong English is terrible.. as much as I hate to admit it.. English is an offical language and they do get taught at school. The problem is people don't speak it or need it.. they just speak Cantonese if they want to communicate or even mandarin nowadays with the influx of Chinese tourist/permanent residents and requirement for work as many companies deal with the mainland .Many people in Hk would struggle with spoken English.. I would definitely get some translation or codes if you can


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## shownomarci (Apr 14, 2017)

MikeHL said:


> if you want carbon you can ask for a knife that "rusts"



Did the same thing at an asian supermarket where they sold CCK cleavers. 
The reply was:
'Why do you want a cleaver that rusts?'
So i ended up not buying any cleavers, because they didn't have any CCK 1301/1302/1303.


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## Bromo33333 (Apr 14, 2017)

shownomarci said:


> Did the same thing at an asian supermarket where they sold CCK cleavers.
> The reply was:
> 'Why do you want a cleaver that rusts?'
> So i ended up not buying any cleavers, because they didn't have any CCK 1301/1302/1303.



Word has it that the stainless CCK cleavers are nearly as good as the carbon steel only a small hit to edge retention compared to the carbon.


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## Kamelion (Apr 14, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> Oh Leung Tim is the shop in the 6th post.. it's been in ssp for yonks.. I go to ssp often as it it the computer/ electronic hub of Hk. Problem is Leung Tim are run by an old couple who were not so friendly the last time I visited.. CCK was a lot friendlier in my opinion. Ironically Leung Tim has an Australian store just 5 mins down the road from my place. Run by their son who is a lot friendly then his parents but the markup is a lot more as compared to what you pay for in Hk.
> 
> Cai Dao in Chinese basically means vegetable knife.
> 
> ...



How is their quality, compared to CCK?

And what are the prices of Leung Tim in Hong Kong?


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## Kamelion (Apr 14, 2017)

MikeHL said:


> I'm a pretty bad cantonese speaker but will try to help. Its been around 3 years since I been to CCK but this is how I bought a knife (KF1103) there .
> 
> Cai Dao translates to vegetable knife. Its a generic term that all used to describe Chinese vegetable cleavers, sort of like "kitchen knife" in western terms.
> 
> As a general note most cantonese households don't have a thin slicing cleaver, they would just use a all purpose cleaver for everything.



But for us nerds, a thin slicer and a heavy bone cleaver is probably a better route, instead of the medium cai dao, right?



MikeHL said:


> When you go to CCK to buy a knife they will ask you what you will be doing with a knife, if you say a all purpose knife they will steer you to the med thin knife. If you want a thin slicer, tell them you want a thin knife or you want to cut thin slices of food. Then they will ask if its for home (small) or restaurant (large) use. After that they will hand you a couple knives, if you want carbon you can ask for a knife that "rusts" (told you my cantonese was bad).
> 
> 95% of the people who buy knives at CCK will not know the exact model number of what they want to buy, its thier way of ensuring you buy the knife that you need, kind of like the KKF questionnaire. Alternatively you can just print out the page on the CCK site, circle what you want and hand that to your buddy.



So one could say that the 10* is the restaurant slicer and 130* the household ditto?


Good to know about the procedure, have already printed the list.


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## Kamelion (Apr 14, 2017)

Bromo33333 said:


> Word has it that the stainless CCK cleavers are nearly as good as the carbon steel only a small hit to edge retention compared to the carbon.



So I've been told. And 99 % of Chinese cooks and chefs probably use stainless nowadays. 

Nevertheless, that does not mean that it is the best way, and furthermore: most people are not knife nerds and go to CCK and the like.

Also, a fellow knife brother and food geek said when asked about carbon caused discoloration and metal tastethat an almost indetectible metalic tang is part of the traditional taste, and helps create the (wok) flavour.


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## Kamelion (Apr 14, 2017)

Probably I will get both carbon and stainless though and try out.

Question is only, large (110*) or small (130*)? Anyone owned or tried both sizes?


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 14, 2017)

"All purpose" means being able to handle chicken, waterfowl and large fish bones along with vegetables in China. I haven't had any problems with my larger CCK multi-purpose knives doing that. You are not cooking Chinese if you aren't leaving a lot of bone in many recipes. I just bought a Sugimoto No. 7 that was billed as an all purpose clever. It arrived today and while it is certainly a fairly heavy knife, its edge looks too thin for even chicken bone to me. So do I risk it? It isn't like I don't have a lot of real Chinese knives that can do the job.


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## schanop (Apr 14, 2017)

Kamelion said:


> Probably I will get both carbon and stainless though and try out.
> 
> Question is only, large (110*) or small (130*)? Anyone owned or tried both sizes?



110x is a little taller than 130x. I would just get 1102 and 1112 myself, if it has to be CCK slicer.

Used to have 1111 a long time ago, and it was huge. Used to have a shibazi that is comparable to 1303 and it is on the smaller size. This is from the background that I like Sugimoto #6 size in general, so 1102 and 1112 fit that aspect.


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## TimoNieminen (Apr 14, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> I'm already confused when they used this term &#25991;&#27494;. It's like a term used centuries ago describe someone who is academically gifted (&#25991;as in writing) and also gifted in martial arts (&#27494; as in fighting). I have no idea how this relates to a kitchen knife lol



Traditional literary allusion. "Wen/wu" (&#25991;/&#27494 is "scholarly/martial", "civil/military", an opposed and complementary pair (like yin/yang, but without the female/male gender meaning inherent in ying/yang). Read &#25991;&#20992; as "delicate knife" or "knife for light, delicate work" and "&#27494;&#20992;" as "tough knife" or "heavy-duty knife", and &#25991;&#27494;&#20992; as "knife suited for both light and heavy work".


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## ynot1985 (Apr 14, 2017)

Kamelion said:


> How is their quality, compared to CCK?
> 
> And what are the prices of Leung Tim in Hong Kong?



Sorry... I'm not sure to be honest.. wasn't really into Chinese cleavers until recently.. when is your friend going? I think their au store is on holidays till next week.. they own the property so they don't need to open on public holidays

I think I will buy from both though when I go back to Hk month


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 14, 2017)

If you want to compare CCK to something easy, it would be Shibazi. I tend to like them better than than CCK but it is not by anything major.


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## foody518 (Apr 15, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> If you want to compare CCK to something easy, it would be Shibazi. I tend to like them better than than CCK but it is not by anything major.



What aspects of Shibazi do you prefer vs CCK?


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## Kamelion (Apr 15, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> "All purpose" means being able to handle chicken, waterfowl and large fish bones along with vegetables in China. I haven't had any problems with my larger CCK multi-purpose knives doing that. You are not cooking Chinese if you aren't leaving a lot of bone in many recipes. I just bought a Sugimoto No. 7 that was billed as an all purpose clever. It arrived today and while it is certainly a fairly heavy knife, its edge looks too thin for even chicken bone to me. So do I risk it? It isn't like I don't have a lot of real Chinese knives that can do the job.



As far as I have understood, the Kitchen Choppers, 12** series, that are considered the all-purpose cai daos, do not have a very much thinner edge, which means that you can still not really chop a chicken for example. Therefore, the thin slicers are almost as all-purpos:y, and for bones you have the Kau Kong, 14** series.

In the forums, you also very seldom read anything about the 12** series, but if you or anyone else has some info or experience, it would be very interesting indeed.


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## Kamelion (Apr 15, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> Sorry... I'm not sure to be honest.. wasn't really into Chinese cleavers until recently.. when is your friend going? I think their au store is on holidays till next week.. they own the property so they don't need to open on public holidays
> 
> I think I will buy from both though when I go back to Hk month



My friend goes next week. Will probably go for CCK this time. Not quite sure about the models yet.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 15, 2017)

foody518 said:


> What aspects of Shibazi do you prefer vs CCK?



I feel pro grade Shibazi cleavers have just a little bit better fit and finish but it really isn't that much. Probably me just being fickly.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 15, 2017)

Kamelion said:


> As far as I have understood, the Kitchen Choppers, 12** series, that are considered the all-purpose cai daos, do not have a very much thinner edge, which means that you can still not really chop a chicken for example. Therefore, the thin slicers are almost as all-purpos:y, and for bones you have the Kau Kong, 14** series.
> 
> In the forums, you also very seldom read anything about the 12** series, but if you or anyone else has some info or experience, it would be very interesting indeed.



You don't need a Kau Kong size cleaver for chopping chicken. Using the heel of a good medium weight model works fine.


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## foody518 (Apr 15, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> I feel pro grade Shibazi cleavers have just a little bit better fit and finish but it really isn't that much. Probably me just being fickly.



Thanks! Similar thickness/thinness behind the edge (for the kitchen slicer types)?


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 15, 2017)

I would say yes but I would have to dig both out and lay them side by side to check. I rotate cleavers pretty often.  The last Shibazi I was using was a small carbon model like the CCK everyone likes. Worked fine for me. And I have a large, pro model medium weight stainless Shebazi that has chopped a lot of chicken bone. It is pretty common for medium weight cleavers sold in China to have a line etched 2 or 3 inches up the blade that states in Chinese "chop bone behind this mark and slice food in front."


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## Kamelion (Apr 15, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> You don't need a Kau Kong size cleaver for chopping chicken. Using the heel of a good medium weight model works fine.



Ah, and by good medium weight you mean the 12** series? The slicers are probably too thin, arent they? And for even thicker bones

Do you own such a medium model, and in that case, which?


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 15, 2017)

looking at Chefs Mall, that appears to be the 19-- series of cleavers. 

"Cleaver in chinese we call Caidao, in english call Vegetable Knife, Vegetable Chopper."

"Caidao means that you can use this knife to handle everything in your kitchen. It is designed to uses the front of blade to slice vegetables, meats, the rear blade to chop small bones, like chicken bones, spareribs etc, of course, not for big bones." 

Chefs Mall is still my favorite source for CCK cleavers.


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## Kamelion (Apr 15, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> looking at Chefs Mall, that appears to be the 19-- series of cleavers.
> 
> "Cleaver in chinese we call Caidao, in english call Vegetable Knife, Vegetable Chopper."
> 
> ...



Thanks, Noodle Soup. Interestingly, according to the CCK website, this cleaver is the only series that does not exist in carbon steel version. Is yours also stainless? And how is weight/thickness etc, compared to the vegetable slicers?

Edit: Okay, the duck slicer also only comes in stainless, it seems


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## Kamelion (Apr 15, 2017)

After reading up a bit more on Chinese fora, I think I have cracked one clue: when it says kitchen slicer/chopper/cleaver etcetera, this only means: restaurant style/large one. Thus, the 12** series is the restaurant/large version of the 190*/180* series; the 11** series is the restaurant/large version of the 13 series. 

Now, this clarifyes it a bit for me at least.


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## Kamelion (Apr 15, 2017)

shownomarci said:


> Did the same thing at an asian supermarket where they sold CCK cleavers.
> The reply was:
> 'Why do you want a cleaver that rusts?'
> So i ended up not buying any cleavers, because they didn't have any CCK 1301/1302/1303.



That really is a bit strange, as if rusting knives were only a gimmick for tourists? I know for a fact that several high-level Chinese chefs use carbon steel, and besides why whould CCK at all manufacture them then?


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## XooMG (Apr 15, 2017)

Kamelion said:


> That really is a bit strange, as if rusting knives were only a gimmick for tourists? I know for a fact that several high-level Chinese chefs use carbon steel, and besides why whould CCK at all manufacture them then?


Because to most nonprofessional buyers who get knives from supermarkets, carbon makes little sense.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 15, 2017)

Kamelion said:


> Thanks, Noodle Soup. Interestingly, according to the CCK website, this cleaver is the only series that does not exist in carbon steel version. Is yours also stainless? And how is weight/thickness etc, compared to the vegetable slicers?
> 
> Edit: Okay, the duck slicer also only comes in stainless, it seems



yes but the carbon-stainless thing isn't a big deal to me.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 15, 2017)

My one and only duck slicer is a carbon steel CCK I bought in the Seattle's "International District" (China town) about 25 years ago. I guess they must have dropped carbon since then.


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## Kamelion (Apr 15, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> My one and only duck slicer is a carbon steel CCK I bought in the Seattle's "International District" (China town) about 25 years ago. I guess they must have dropped carbon since then.



Ah, cool!

But the medium-thin/thick cleaver you have, how thin/thick is it, and whats the weight? Which model? How does it compare to the slicers, if you happen to know these?


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## ynot1985 (Apr 15, 2017)

Damn.. I wish I have a carbon duck slicer.. I have a stainless steel one and I'm a big fan of this knife


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## Sillywizard (Apr 16, 2017)

@ynot1985: In what capacity and extent do you use a duck knife? I don't dress or prep duck beyond breast file's, the same goes for most poultry now days.

@Kamelion: I prefer a height of 9.5 cm - 10 cm for my Chinese chef knives, good blade height is important. The length of my knives range from 18 cm - 23 cm. longer than that feels cumbersome in a home kitchen environment; shorter than that feels...short.
I have a "medium" slicer, it's 2 mm thick at the spine, but I much prefer the thinner slicers, they perform much better. I am predominately a push-cutter, except onions, then I'm a slice-n-dice chopper.


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## ynot1985 (Apr 16, 2017)

Sillywizard said:


> @ynot1985: In what capacity and extent do you use a duck knife? I don't dress or prep duck beyond breast file's, the same goes for most poultry now days.
> 
> @Kamelion: I prefer a height of 9.5 cm - 10 cm for my Chinese chef knives, good blade height is important. The length of my knives range from 18 cm - 23 cm. longer than that feels cumbersome in a home kitchen environment; shorter than that feels...short.
> I have a "medium" slicer, it's 2 mm thick at the spine, but I much prefer the thinner slicers, they perform much better. I am predominately a push-cutter, except onions, then I'm a slice-n-dice chopper.



Honestly, I brought the duck knife randomly at CCK one year.. all my family uses the big vegetable knives which I find big .. so I saw this at CCK and brought it.. the old man at the counter didn't ask me what I wanted it for so I'm just using it as a Nakiri nowadays..works well.. I did ask him if they had a heavier version as the stainless one is really light but he said no


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## Kamelion (Apr 16, 2017)

Sillywizard said:


> @ynot1985: In what capacity and extent do you use a duck knife? I don't dress or prep duck beyond breast file's, the same goes for most poultry now days.
> 
> @Kamelion: I prefer a height of 9.5 cm - 10 cm for my Chinese chef knives, good blade height is important. The length of my knives range from 18 cm - 23 cm. longer than that feels cumbersome in a home kitchen environment; shorter than that feels...short.
> I have a "medium" slicer, it's 2 mm thick at the spine, but I much prefer the thinner slicers, they perform much better. I am predominately a push-cutter, except onions, then I'm a slice-n-dice chopper.



Thanks for the info, Sillywizard. The Chinese often talk about their cai daos as being all-rounders, usable for smacking garlic and ginger flat, and chopping through lighter chicken and fish bones. Do you think the thin cleavers can do this well, because I'm guessing they are talking about the medium thin ones?


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## Kamelion (Apr 16, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> You don't need a Kau Kong size cleaver for chopping chicken. Using the heel of a good medium weight model works fine.



@Noodle Soup: Could you please tell me the dimensions, weight and possibly model number of your medium cleavers? And are they a bit thicker close to the handle, than at the edge? Would be highly appreciated!


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## Kamelion (Apr 16, 2017)

By the way, would you guys say that Martin Yan uses a thin 13**-style or a medium 190*/180*-style cleaver in general, and in for example [video=youtube;5-UUWWig-pU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-UUWWig-pU[/video]?

Also, there isor werea cleaver that carried his name. Anyone used or seen this, and could say anything about model, thickness etc.


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## Kamelion (Apr 16, 2017)

Or maybe this video: [video=youtube;8ciBUPOebWU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ciBUPOebWU[/video]

To me, it actually looks pretty thin? Also, look here and here.

The blade dimensions areI have found out20 × 8,7 cm (middle of the blade). Pretty small, one must say.


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 16, 2017)

ynot1985 said:


> Honestly, I brought the duck knife randomly at CCK one year.. all my family uses the big vegetable knives which I find big .. so I saw this at CCK and brought it.. the old man at the counter didn't ask me what I wanted it for so I'm just using it as a Nakiri nowadays..works well.. I did ask him if they had a heavier version as the stainless one is really light but he said no



That was me too. I didn't know what a duck knife was so I used mine as a Chinese version of a nakiri. The guy in the Chinese grocery story pretty much told me that was what it was for too. When we got to talking, I found he went to high school with Al Mar. Small world, Al was a good friend.


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## Sillywizard (Apr 16, 2017)

Kamelion said:


> Thanks for the info, Sillywizard. The Chinese often talk about their cai daos as being all-rounders, usable for smacking garlic and ginger flat, and chopping through lighter chicken and fish bones. Do you think the thin cleavers can do this well, because I'm guessing they are talking about the medium thin ones?


The medium cleaver is a good compromise, it will slice and dice any and all vegetables, as well as fish and poultry bones and boneless meats. Works marvelous in a standard home environment.
However, when it comes to most vegetables and boneless meats, one may feel that a few tenths of a millimeter thinner would be perfect for achieving that extra fine delicate work that no normal person would even consider wasting time on at home.

Once again, if your friend has the space and weight allowance, ask him/her to buy you a medium slicer too (or pay the postage to have them all sent home to you). Whatever you choose not to keep, can be given away to family and/or friends, or sold for at least the cost of purchase+postage, problem solved!


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## Kamelion (Apr 16, 2017)

Sillywizard said:


> The medium cleaver is a good compromise, it will slice and dice any and all vegetables, as well as fish and poultry bones and boneless meats. Works marvelous in a standard home environment.
> However, when it comes to most vegetables and boneless meats, one may feel that a few tenths of a millimeter thinner would be perfect for achieving that extra fine delicate work that no normal person would even consider wasting time on at home.
> 
> Once again, if your friend has the space and weight allowance, ask him/her to buy you a medium slicer too (or pay the postage to have them all sent home to you). Whatever you choose not to keep, can be given away to family and/or friends, or sold for at least the cost of purchase+postage, problem solved!



Thank you again, Sillywizard, for your this exposition. However, I wonder: 

 It is clear, that this tenth of a millimeter makes difference when making very delicate work. But in the other direction, how can another fraction of steel added make any significant difference on the edge, and its capability to chop through lighter bones and the like? For me this tiny difference indicates that the slicers edge just as good can chop through those bones, the only noticeable difference being the total weight, which in itself of course makes the chopping somewhat easier.

 Or is it so that the differences lies therein, that the spine thickness stays the same all the way to short before the edge, and therefore makes it much more solid in total?

 Oryet againdoes the chopper have constitution where the edge is sturdier close to the handle, and more delicate against the tip side?

I am sorry if I am asking about obvious things, but I find it really interesting. I will for sure ask him to buy as much as possible. My plan is for now:

KF1102  Kitchen (_i.e._ restaurant) slicer  carbon steel
KF1302  Small (_i.e._ home use) slicer  carbon steel
KF1402  &#20061;&#27743;&#20992; Kau Kong Chopper (small)  carbon steel
KG1902  Chopper (small)  stainless steel

What do you think about this disposition? Reasonable? Would it be wiser to get a big restaurant chopper instead?


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## Noodle Soup (Apr 16, 2017)

The one thing I have learned the hard way about the CCK Kau Kong chopper is it really isn't that heavy of duty. Few if any Chinese chefs and home cooks ever chop large pork or beef bones. That is left to the butchers in the markets and their really heavy cleavers. I decided to try the Kau Kong on some large beef rib bones and badly dinged the edge. While I did my best to sharpen it out, you can still see the damage. The knife is OK for poultry and pork rib type work but never again on heavy beef bones.


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## Sillywizard (Apr 16, 2017)

@Kamelion: Now we are crossing the limit to over analyzing. Such questions cannot be sufficiently answered; edge geometry begins to come into play, ones' technique, personal preference etc...etc...

At this point you are simply going to have to start using the knives and decide for yourself. Besides, your initial impression probably will change after a few months of usage as you adapt to the knives and the way they are to be used.

What we (the forum) expect now is that you post your feedback and experience after you have gotten your knives and used them a longer while.

A tip is to put away your other knives (with the exception of a paring knife) for a month or two as you learn to use the cleavers, 
Good luck!


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## Kamelion (Apr 16, 2017)

Noodle Soup said:


> The one thing I have learned the hard way about the CCK Kau Kong chopper is it really isn't that heavy of duty. Few if any Chinese chefs and home cooks ever chop large pork or beef bones. That is left to the butchers in the markets and their really heavy cleavers. I decided to try the Kau Kong on some large beef rib bones and badly dinged the edge. While I did my best to sharpen it out, you can still see the damage. The knife is OK for poultry and pork rib type work but never again on heavy beef bones.



Thanks for the tip. Actually, that was my feeling as well, wherefore I probably will buy the smallest one, for just light-weight chopping. However, do you think it is wiser to go for stainless, since it is often less brittle and little bit tougher/impact resistant?


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## Kamelion (Apr 16, 2017)

Sillywizard said:


> @Kamelion: Now we are crossing the limit to over analyzing. Such questions cannot be sufficiently answered; edge geometry begins to come into play, ones' technique, personal preference etc...etc...



You got me there; thats a tendency I have  However, some questions were pretty factual, I think, foremost whether the thickness changes from handle to tip? Got any photos to show this? 



Sillywizard said:


> At this point you are simply going to have to start using the knives and decide for yourself. Besides, your initial impression probably will change after a few months of usage as you adapt to the knives and the way they are to be used.
> 
> What we (the forum) expect now is that you post your feedback and experience after you have gotten your knives and used them a longer while.



That I will do for sure, and I am sincerely thankful for all the help you and the rest of this forum has given me.

But as I hope you understand, I cannot buy them until I can; when the trip takes place, that is. And also I cannot spend to much money, and the luggage is limited. The best would be to buy 10 cleavers and try it all out, but that is not possible. Thus, I try to find 45 that covers it as much as possible.[/QUOTE]



Sillywizard said:


> A tip is to put away your other knives (with the exception of a paring knife) for a month or two as you learn to use the cleavers,
> Good luck!



Actually, I am almost exclusively using my cleaverplus a paring knifefor now in my kitchen, just have no other of the sort to compare with, other than I feel the steel is pretty crappy. In general, very happy with it as concept. This cleaver has, if anyone is interested, the following data:

Length: 358 mm
Weight: 305,2 g
Blade length:205 mm
Blade height (heel): 92 mm
Blade height (middle): 93 mm
Blade height (tip): 88 mm
Spine thickness, handle side: 1,9 mm
Spine thickness, tip side: 1,7 mm
Thinning out starts at 43 mm from the spine.

I will add this data in another post some time, but the knife is really pretty unspectacular, and I never felt the urge to share this yet.


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## Kamelion (Apr 16, 2017)

After some more research, I found this post, which answers my question: the CCK small chopper, in this case the FK1804, is as thick as 4,3 mm at the bolster and 2,1 mm at the tip.

That is reasonably thicker than the slicers, and would probably add at least 50 %if not more of weight. Thus, I guess a slicer and a Kau Kong.


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## Sillywizard (Apr 19, 2017)

FYI: Go to post #12 on page 2
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...ingapore-for-knives-stones-kitchen-gear/page2


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## Kamelion (May 8, 2017)

Finally my CCKs arrived, thank you very much for all help. Added some info and photos in this thread.


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