# Pronounciations



## jimbob (Mar 11, 2013)

Ok, clarification please. In disagreement with mate.... Yoshikane- yosh-eee-cane? Takeda- ta-kee-da? Those are the main two in contention, i hope im right! (there is a meal riding on it).


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## franzb69 (Mar 11, 2013)

i speak a little japanese (can't read though)

yoh - shih - kah - neh 

not yoe-shee-ka-nay or not yoe-shee-ka-nee

(silent H)

just pronounce it faster.

the "shi" in yoshikane is almost silent when pronounced.

"yoshkane"


for takeda

tah - keh - dah or tuh-keh-dah

not tah-key-dah or not tah-kay-dah

just pronounce faster

hope that helps.


another word that annoys me when people try to pronounce gyuto. lol

gyoo-toh

not gyoe-toe



and then there's santoku

not san-toe-koo or san-too-koe

san - toh - koo 

only faster

sorry just had to say that =D


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## Timthebeaver (Mar 11, 2013)

It must be "ghee-yo-toe", an "expert" "reviewer" says so.


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## Dream Burls (Mar 11, 2013)

If you go to ZKnives site (http://zknives.com) and find his listing of the japaneses style knives, in each definition is a vocal attachment where you can hear the pronounciation of the name.


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## NO ChoP! (Mar 11, 2013)

How about Watanabe? I always feel silly when I try to pronounce it....


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## franzb69 (Mar 11, 2013)

wah-tah-nah-beh

wa like wa handle, tah like tah tah (like saying good bye?), nah (like saying no), beh (like saying the word belong, not bee or bay)


as how it's spelled. only faster.

this is pretty close:

http://www.pronouncehow.com/english/watanabe_pronunciation


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## Pensacola Tiger (Mar 11, 2013)

Konosuke?

Honesuki?


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## franzb69 (Mar 11, 2013)

koh noh skeh

http://www.forvo.com/word/matsushita_konosuke/ (nevermind matsushita in the link provided, lol)

here the "U" in the name konosuke is silent

hoh neh ski

http://www.forvo.com/word/honesuki/

same goes with the "U" in honesuki.

certain vowels become silent. like the vowel "i" in the name matsushita. (not relevant, but might be worth including).....

but when these vowels are at the end of a word or name, they no longer become silent and must be pronounced as spelled.


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## Patatas Bravas (Mar 11, 2013)

Konosuke: koh-no-soo-kay
Honesuki: ho-nay-soo-kee

And gyuto is definitely not 'ghee-yo-toe'! :viking: Just like Kyoto is not 'kee-yo-toe'. Argh!!

gyuto: gyoo-toe (the 'gyu' is like 'you' with a hard 'g' in front and NO 'ee' between
Kyoto: kyoh-toe (again, no 'ee' sound between the 'k' and 'you' sounds

Actually, the way Japanese is written with the alphabet, pronunciation is regular, predictable and easy

One difficult one is Suisin because of spelling. Suisin should be 'Suishin' with a 'shhh'

Suisin: soo-ee-sheen


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## wsfarrell (Mar 11, 2013)

franzb69 said:


> koh noh skeh
> 
> http://www.forvo.com/word/matsushita_konosuke/ (nevermind matsushita in the link provided, lol)
> 
> ...



Exactly. Thank you.


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## franzb69 (Mar 11, 2013)

> One difficult one is Suisin because of spelling. Suisin should be 'Suishin' with a 'shhh'
> 
> Suisin: soo-ee-sheen



yep. this is because of writing in japanese is confusing.

you can't write the name suisin in japanese, it's spelled suishin in japanese. and should be pronounced as such.


like the way mazda is spelled in japanese. it's spelled as matsuda, not mazda.

"tsu" and "zu" can be interchangeable sometimes in pronounciation, sometimes it's regional (i think) on how it's pronounced.

the japanese kept the name mazda in romaji (what they call roman writing or western writing) coz it's easier for westerners to pronounce mazda than matsuda.

again the "u" in matsuda is silent, which is why sounds like mazda or matsda when pronounced.


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## mhlee (Mar 11, 2013)

The Japanese language is based on a phonetic alphabet. Every pronounced syllable in a Japanese word is generally a different character, and, unlike English, the sounds don't change (although the accent or emphasis may). So, "ke" is always going to be "keh" and "ki" is always going to be "kee" (like "tree" but not as long of a "e" sound). 

So, Takeda should be pronounced "Ta-ke-da", i.e. "tah" (like "ta-da"), "keh" (the "ke" sound in "Ken" and "da" (the "dah" sound in "ta-da"). There is no "tuh" character in Japanese although there may be regional pronunciations (of which I am not aware of because Takeda is a relatively common name in Japan).

Also, Japanese does not have many long sounding syllables so "nay" as that sound is pronounced in US English is long compared to the Japanese character for that sound which is more like "neh."


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## mhlee (Mar 11, 2013)

franzb69 said:


> yep. this is because of writing in japanese is confusing.
> 
> you can't write the name suisin in japanese, it's spelled suishin in japanese. and should be pronounced as such.
> 
> ...



The "tsu" and "zu" characters are completely different in Japanese. In Japanese, it looks like it's spelled "ma-tsu-da" in Katakana so it is definitely not "zu." And, in Japan, it's definitely pronounced "ma-tsu-da." The "u" is clearly pronounced in my experience in Japan. Also, whether or not a sound is silent or not can simply depend on the speed one says a word.


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## Sambal (Mar 11, 2013)

So is it true as I have been told that the 'u' in Matsushita is almost silent because the vowel is pronounced so fast that it's sort of rushed over?


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## franzb69 (Mar 11, 2013)

> The "tsu" and "zu" characters are completely different in Japanese. In Japanese, it looks like it's spelled "ma-tsu-da" in Katakana so it is definitely not "zu." And, in Japan, it's definitely pronounced "ma-tsu-da." The "u" is clearly pronounced in my experience in Japan. Also, whether or not a sound is silent or not can simply depend on the speed one says a word.



my mistake then...

i guess it is just the speed then, and it usually comes out like i mentioned earlier, "almost silent".



> So is it true as I have been told that the 'u' in Matsushita is almost silent because the vowel is pronounced so fast that it's sort of rushed over?



it's only what i've learned on my own... from watching japanese movies and tv shows (j-dramas) for close to 20 years.


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## mhlee (Mar 11, 2013)

Same with "Matsushita." The "i" is part of the "shi" character and is pronounced "she", not "sh." It's not silent. If it were, it would be pronounced "ma-tsu-sh-ta", which it's not.


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## franzb69 (Mar 11, 2013)

> Same with "Matsushita." The "i" is part of the "shi" character and is pronounced "she", not "sh." It's not silent. If it were, it would be pronounced "ma-tsu-sh-ta", which it's not.



from the example of what i posted on the link earlier (audio playback of someone pronouncing the name matsushita), from what clearly sounds like a native speaker, it was like i mentioned almost silent. like my english (it not being perfect), my japanese is even worse than my english.

but whatever. if i'm wrong, then i'm wrong. =D


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## mhlee (Mar 11, 2013)

Sambal said:


> So is it true as I have been told that the 'u' in Matsushita is almost silent because the vowel is pronounced so fast that it's sort of rushed over?



It's pronounced, although quickly. The "tsu" sound is one character. It's not a "ts" sound; it's "tsooh" but shorter. 

It may be that it sounds silent based on the sounds heard in other languages and how such sounds are spelled. But, spelling-wise, it's the character for "tsu" and it's pronounced "tsu" in Japanese. 

As for how "Matsushita" is pronounced, based on how my cousin pronounced it when I saw him last year, and considering he works for Matsushita in Osaka, I would say the "u" is pronounced as part of the "tsu" sound.


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## Patatas Bravas (Mar 11, 2013)

Yes, but this is not most important. In principle, Japanese has no natural stresses of syllables, like Spanish for example. So anyone understands Konosuke as 'koh-no-soo-kay' even if some stresses naturally happen and a u can be 'eaten' when people speak, like desu become 'des' and mashita is usually 'mashtah'. Just remember: a='ah' like 'Bah' Humbug, e='ay' like 'say', i='ee' like 'see', o='oh' like the US anthem, and u='oo' or 'ou' like 'you'


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## Patatas Bravas (Mar 11, 2013)

Patatas Bravas said:


> Yes, but this is not most important. In principle, Japanese has no natural stresses of syllables, like Spanish for example. So anyone understands Konosuke as 'koh-no-soo-kay' even if some stresses naturally happen and a u can be 'eaten' when people speak, like desu become 'des' and mashita is usually 'mashtah'. Just remember: a='ah' like 'Bah' Humbug, e='ay' like 'say', i='ee' like 'see', o='oh' like the US anthem, and u='oo' or 'ou' like 'you'



Sorry! This is responding to a previous post and so I lost context. Anyway, I agree with all Michael said.

With the 'ts' as in 'tsu' or &#12388; / &#12484; in English you say this all the time so not hard, for example if you have 'pits' and drop the &#712;p&#618;' and keep the 'ts and add 'u:' you have 'tsu' or &#12388; / &#12484;.


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## mhlee (Mar 11, 2013)

Patatas Bravas said:


> Yes, but this is not most important. In principle, Japanese has no natural stresses of syllables, like Spanish for example. So anyone understands Konosuke as 'koh-no-soo-kay' even if some stresses naturally happen and a u can be 'eaten' when people speak, like desu become 'des' and mashita is usually 'mashtah'. Just remember: a='ah' like 'Bah' Humbug, e='ay' like 'say', i='ee' like 'see', o='oh' like the US anthem, and u='oo' or 'ou' like 'you'



I completely disagree. Japanese has words that are spelled the same but have different meanings because of different stresses of characters/syllables.

For example, "ame" can mean both candy and rain. If you stress the "a" character, it's rain. If you stress the "me" character, it's candy. Similarly, "kumo" can mean cloud or spider. Stress the first character, and it's cloud; stress the second and it's spider.


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## franzb69 (Mar 11, 2013)

i agree with mhlee's last post

=D

i was only stressing the need to pronounce certain words with silent or almost silent vowels to just not sound strange when speaking to a native japanese speaker. if one were to pronounce every single syllable as it was written and not as it would normally pronounced by a native speaker. i think it might come off as strange to them.

i wouldn't know though as i've only spoken only to a few native speakers of nihonggo. they've never told me that i spoke with an odd accent, only that my nihonggo wasn't perfect. 

i think we've gone way off topic now. lol. from a simple query to whatever this is.


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## jimbob (Mar 11, 2013)

Well it looks like im buying dinner...


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## mpukas (Mar 11, 2013)

What about "suke" and "suki"? In the Japanese shows I've watched with sub-titles, I've never heard them pronounced "soo-keh" or "soo-kee", it's always shortened "skeh" or "skay" or "ski". 

Here's Murray again; 
[video=youtube;8daxlCwXunc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8daxlCwXunc[/video]


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## mhlee (Mar 11, 2013)

mpukas said:


> What about "suke" and "suki"? In the Japanese shows I've watched with sub-titles, I've never heard them pronounced "soo-keh" or "soo-kee", it's always shortened "skeh" or "skay" or "ski".
> 
> Here's Murray again;
> [video=youtube;8daxlCwXunc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8daxlCwXunc[/video]



Did you watch the whole video? Even Murray says he's reminded by his wife to say "Ho-ne-su-ki" and make sure to pronounce the "u" in "su", not "ho-ne-ski" which is how he says it and is incorrect. 

It's not "skeh" or "skay" like "skeletal" or "ski", respectively. It's not "ko-no-ske" or "ho-ne-ski." "Su-ke" and "su-ki" are each two syllables first of all, and second of all, even if the "u" is not audible, you'll hear that it is two syllables. What specific words have you heard in your Japanese shows with subtitles? Names, places? Have you actually heard people talk about knives in the shows? The suffix "su-ke" is somewhat common in names, e.g., Konosuke, Daisuke (Matsuzaka). In "Daisuke," the "su" is rather clearly pronounced. "Suki" is both a prefix and a suffix in words in Japanese. Would you pronounce "Sukiyaki" "ski-yaki"? No. 

You're taking sample of the language and trying to apply it universally. (Which is, ironically, one of the biggest problems of Japanese people learning English; there are so few universal rules that apply to the English language, unlike Japanese, that Japanese people often times have trouble pronouncing words in English because Japanese is based on a phonetic alphabet and if you say every letter, you will be able to enunciate the word, unlike English, e.g., "the" vs. "their" vs. "them" vs. "thermometer," which all start with "the" but all sound different.)


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## Benuser (Mar 11, 2013)

Please, guys there is an International Phonetic Alphabet - since some 120 years. It gives an objective registration of the phonemes, and allows exchange of information between people of different backgrounds. If someone asks me how you pronounce "Thiers-Issard" I don't have to ask myself if he lives in England or in Texas, Sakai or Solingen. [tyerisa:r], that's all, and my interlocutor may look up for the local equivalent of some sound.


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## Patatas Bravas (Mar 11, 2013)

Benuser said:


> Please, guys there is an International Phonetic Alphabet


 Sure good idea. You can pronounce the Japanese vowels you see written as a,e,i, o,u as these sounds /&#593;, e&#618;, i:, o&#650;, u:/ There are just 5. 



mhlee said:


> Patatas Bravas said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, but this is not most important. In principle, Japanese has no natural stresses of syllables, similar to Spanish for example. So anyone understands Konosuke as 'koh-no-soo-kay' even if some stresses naturally happen and a u can be 'eaten' when people speak, like desu become 'des' and mashita is usually 'mashtah'.
> ...



Yes, I understand it's important for sounding really good. However, I'm just saying that for knife people who can't pronounce any Japanese it's not important to worry about 'stresses' or disappearing 'u's as this won't have much effect. Same with English - maybe you say 'I'm' usually but if a different speaker says 'I am' everybody understands, and the second is just more literal but not so natural. However, if you pronounce gyuto like many English speakers do as 'gEE-you-toe' it is different from 'gyou-toe' (/gju:to&#650;/) with a new sound (/i:/); or if you say Takeda as 'tah-KEY-dah' not the correct 'tah-kay-dah' (/ta:ke&#618;da:/) you have changed one sound, saying 'ee' (/i:/) not the correct 'ay/eh' (/e&#618;/). In both examples the mispronunciation is quite different.



mhlee said:


> Murray says he's reminded by his wife to say "Ho-ne-su-ki" and make sure to pronounce the "u" in "su", not "ho-ne-ski" which is how he says it and is incorrect. ... You're taking sample of the language and trying to apply it universally. (Which is, ironically, one of the biggest problems of Japanese people learning English; there are so few universal rules that apply to the English language, unlike Japanese, that Japanese people often times have trouble pronouncing words in English because Japanese is based on a phonetic alphabet and if you say every letter, you will be able to enunciate the word, unlike English, e.g., "the" vs. "their" vs. "them" vs. "thermometer," which all start with "the" but all sound different.)



Yes, I agree. To pronounce things really well, it is difficult to predict some of the stresses. But to do a pretty good job with Japanese pronunciation is easy if you can read the word and know the 5 basic vowel sounds. 

English is more difficult with pronunciation, yes, but still rules usually do apply. English spelling is still 70% phonetic - so still the majority. Your example 'the, their, them and thermometer' has 4 words starting with 'th' but it is not true they are all different as there are only 2 'th' sounds in English, /ð/ which is voiced and /&#952;/ which is voiceless. So actually 'the, their, them' all start with the same voiced /ð/ sound and 'thermometer' starts with the voiceless /&#952;/.


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## Sambal (Mar 11, 2013)

I know this is serious, well kinda anyway - but puhleeze excuse my having a giggle.

'Let's Call The Whole Thing Off' by Louis Armstrong

. . . You say eether and I say eyether,
You say neether and I say nyther,
Eether, eyether, neether,nyther,
Let's call the whole thing off!
You like potato and I like pohtato,
You like tomato and I like tomahto,
Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto!
Let's call the whole thing off! 
. . .


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## mhlee (Mar 11, 2013)

You're right. There aren't four different sounds, but there are three. I pointed out words starting with "the", not just "th". And there are three different "the" sounds there. And yes, English is mostly phonetic, but the differences between pronunciation spelled words in English vs. Japanese is significant. The sounds simply don't change in Japanese. And you can spell it with near certainty if you can sound it out properly. 

This is hilarious. You're getting into the minutia of English grammar and criticizing my example, but you refuse to acknowledge that you are completely wrong about how "Japanese has no natural stresses of syllables . . . ." That is complete misinformation. You completely ignored my example about how *two* words spelled the same have completely different meanings when pronounced differently. 

You're basically taking contradictory positions in my opinion. One, you're saying it's okay to drop the "u"s and then later, you're saying read the word. Well dropping the "u" or other vowels is not saying the entire word as written. 

Furthermore, by omitting a vowel may also completely change the word - again, not just how it sounds, but what you're trying to communicate. Like "muryo" and "muri." They both have "&#12416;&#12426;" to start. You take out the "o" from "muryo" which means "free", you say "unreasonable" or "forced." It's not important for "sounding good," it's necessary in order to *not say the wrong word.* "Mazui" vs. "mazu." The more I think about this, the more examples I find. 

And here's a perfect example: Go say "anata" or "anta" to knifemaker, chef, or, hell, for that matter, a person at a counter. Let's see how that goes over. First of all, "anata" is generally not even proper unless it's between family, loved ones, partner/spouse, or super close friend. "Anta" without an obvious "na" sound? That's demeaning and condescending. 

If you're going to pronounce Japanese words, you're much better off saying every syllable rather than cutting off vowels arbitrarily. (I'm not even going to get into learning Japanese from TV programs. People who think that's how everyday Japanese speak will likely have a rough experience speaking that way in Japan because the language is generally too casual or impolite for daily conversation outside of friends. And there's a level of casualness of speaking in the manner you describe which is, most certainly, not appropriate in certain settings. And as a first time visitor anywhere, you almost never start a conversation in too casual of a manner. If you're going to meet a knifemaker, which some members may eventually choose to do, it would be completely inappropriate to speak casually to them. And basically, what you're saying, is that this is okay. It's absolutely NOT okay to meet someone for the first time and speak to them in a casual manner.) 

The people who have posted in this thread are asking if it's proper to pronounce words or terms that don't have certain vowels, etc. Sure, I guess they can, but as I've repeatedly posted, it's not correct. They can speak Japanese however they want for all I care. 

But having spoken Japanese for nearly my entire life, studied Japanese for at least twelve years, traveled to Japan on numerous occasions and gone to school there twice for a total of five months, I can tell you, with a good amount of certainty, that the generalizations and rules, especially about no natural stresses or syllables, is completely wrong, and your approval of cutting out vowels is certainly not okay. You're spreading misinformation. How long have you studied Japanese? 

And your comment, "To pronounce things really well, it is difficult to predict some of the stresses." It is difficult to the beginner, but not difficult to predict if you learn by listening, speaking and studying. And, frankly, that's what differentiates a good Japanese speaker from a novice. 

For people here who are interested in really learning Japanese or about Japan or Japanese knives, they should read the alphabet and pronounce words saying every syllable first and not have disappearing "u"s in their pronunciation. FWIW, if you say "Takeda as 'tah-KEY-dah'" nobody is going to know what you're talking about because the closest thing to that is "&#12383;&#12365;&#12384;" not "&#12383;&#12369;&#12384;." That's a completely different word if pronounced the way you wrote.


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## mpukas (Mar 12, 2013)

mhlee said:


> Did you watch the whole video?
> blah blah blah



Yes, I did watch the entire video. That's why I asked the question. 

I understand what Murray says about pronouncing the "u" sound and not condensing it to "ski". As in your example of Daisuke, I hear the name of a competitor on Ninja Warrior pronounced as "Die-skay" from both the Japanese presenter and the American announcer (and it's sub-titled hence where I pick up the spelling and pronunciation difference); and I've heard on other TV shows, videos, etc. that same sort of condensing. I fact I hear that more often than I hear that I hear the full pronunciation of "u". 

You can hear Morimoto say kirit-skeh; 
[video=youtube;keEk29zJa1w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keEk29zJa1w[/video] 
Are you gonna say he's not pronouncing the name of the knife corretly? 

I'm just trying to understand the proper/correct way of saying it, because I hear it pronounced differently. I also get what you are saying about TV/videos not being accurate/correct/appropriate for every day conversation. And, I think your advice to pronounce every syllable is good.


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## mpukas (Mar 12, 2013)

Another one that drives me knuts is deba = "day-buh".


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## James (Mar 12, 2013)

mhlee said:


> Did you watch the whole video? Even Murray says he's reminded by his wife to say "Ho-ne-su-ki" and make sure to pronounce the "u" in "su", not "ho-ne-ski" which is how he says it and is incorrect.
> 
> It's not "skeh" or "skay" like "skeletal" or "ski", respectively. It's not "ko-no-ske" or "ho-ne-ski." "Su-ke" and "su-ki" are each two syllables first of all, and second of all, even if the "u" is not audible, you'll hear that it is two syllables. What specific words have you heard in your Japanese shows with subtitles? Names, places? Have you actually heard people talk about knives in the shows? The suffix "su-ke" is somewhat common in names, e.g., Konosuke, Daisuke (Matsuzaka). In "Daisuke," the "su" is rather clearly pronounced. "Suki" is both a prefix and a suffix in words in Japanese. Would you pronounce "Sukiyaki" "ski-yaki"? No.
> 
> You're taking sample of the language and trying to apply it universally. (Which is, ironically, one of the biggest problems of Japanese people learning English; there are so few universal rules that apply to the English language, unlike Japanese, that Japanese people often times have trouble pronouncing words in English because Japanese is based on a phonetic alphabet and if you say every letter, you will be able to enunciate the word, unlike English, e.g., "the" vs. "their" vs. "them" vs. "thermometer," which all start with "the" but all sound different.)



Thanks for the explanation. I've always wondered about that; sometimes I would hear the "u" and sometimes I wouldn't. I admit, I didn't pronounce the "u"s and ordered beef ski-yaki a few times :O


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## mhlee (Mar 12, 2013)

mpukas said:


> Yes, I did watch the entire video. That's why I asked the question.
> 
> I understand what Murray says about pronouncing the "u" sound and not condensing it to "ski".
> 
> ...



You're not hearing him correctly. He clearly says "ki-ri-tsu-ke." Especially when he says "u-su-ba ki-ri-tsu-ke." Clearly not "kirit-skeh." Listen for the syllables. There is no "rit" letter in Japanese. What you consider "rit" and "skeh" is actually "ri" "tsu" "ke." If you listen when he says "usuba kiritsuke", the "tsu" sound and syllable is very clear at around 43 seconds. 

I also think you're thinking of this from an English perspective. Just forget trying to translate this to English or relying on Japanese sub-titles or translations because most of them suck (another reason to ALWAYS take sub-titles and translations with a big chunk of salt). Consider that "tsa", "tse", "tsi", "tso" and "tsu" all sound different. (The first four sounds don't exist in the Japanese alphabet. This is only for explanation purposes.) If it was "kiritsake" or "kiritseke" or "kiritsike" or "kiritsoke" they would all sound different. 

By the way, what word are you using as a comparison for this "tskeh" sound? There isn't a single word that I know of that starts with "tsk" other than "tsk tsk" which isn't pronounced even close to "tskeh." Every word that starts with "ts" aside form "tsk" - pronounced "tisk" from what I know - has a vowel immediately after "ts." So, even in the English language, there doesn't appear to be an equivalent word or pronunciation without a vowel after "ts."


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## mpukas (Mar 12, 2013)

mhlee said:


> You're not hearing him correctly. He clearly says "ki-ri-tsu-ke." Especially when he says "u-su-ba ki-ri-tsu-ke." Clearly not "kirit-skeh." Listen for the syllables. There is no "rit" letter in Japanese. What you consider "rit" and "skeh" is actually "ri" "tsu" "ke." If you listen when he says "usuba kiritsuke", the "tsu" sound and syllable is very clear at around 43 seconds.
> 
> I also think you're thinking of this from an English perspective. Just forget trying to translate this to English or relying on Japanese sub-titles or translations because most of them suck (another reason to ALWAYS take sub-titles and translations with a big chunk of salt). Consider that "tsa", "tse", "tsi", "tso" and "tsu" all sound different. (The first four sounds don't exist in the Japanese alphabet. This is only for explanation purposes.) If it was "kiritsake" or "kiritseke" or "kiritsike" or "kiritsoke" they would all sound different.
> 
> By the way, what word are you using as a comparison for this "tskeh" sound? There isn't a single word that I know of that starts with "tsk" other than "tsk tsk" which isn't pronounced even close to "tskeh." Every word that starts with "ts" aside form "tsk" - pronounced "tisk" from what I know - has a vowel immediately after "ts." So, even in the English language, there doesn't appear to be an equivalent word or pronunciation without a vowel after "ts."



To my ears, I still hear him say kirit-skeh. No matter how many times I listen to it. But now I understand where/how this pronunciation is derived. Most of the time the words I read and the way they are pronounced don't make sense to me. This helps a lot. 

I also hear a lot of non-Japanese people pronouncing their interpretations of what they are hearing without having an understanding of the Japanese language, and so the errors get perpetuated. 

I know the same thing happens to foreigners when they come to the US and try to learn/understand English. We don't always pronounce each letter/sound the same. As I understand it, there's less variation in pronunciation in Japanese and some other languages than there is in English. And regional accents/dialects have to be taken into account, no? 

Such as adding an r where there shouldnt be one, as in warsh {Pittsburg} or idear {Southern MA}; or taking away an r as  pahk the cah {Boston}; or just about anything from New Jersey wheya yous guys goin?


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## Lucretia (Mar 12, 2013)

I just know that I'll have to study up a lot before meeting any of you face to face, or you'll beat me to death for my horrible pronunciation. 

Or I could just say "That knife THAR!" and point a lot.

(This thread is helpful. Thanks!)


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## [email protected] (Mar 12, 2013)

wow this is quite an argument on Japanese pronunciation... Come visit me so I can just pronounce them for you guys! If you aren't able to "hear" every sound, that just means you need to train your ears. I learned to "hear" sounds of English too. What I heard from my linguist professors is that the development of human ears (or ability to hear certain sounds) completes at the age of 3, and after that stage, to be able to recognize any foreign sounds that you didn't hear during the developmental stage will take a lot longer, if not sometimes impossible. For me, I still struggle a lot of "R" and "L", and "shi" and "si". Embarrassing story about my "shi" and "si" - I still get very nervous to say "please sit down" (how horrible would it be if I'm mistakenly saying "****"). So I just chose to say "please take a seat".


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## mpukas (Mar 12, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> ...If you aren't able to "hear" every sound, that just means you need to train your ears. I learned to "hear" sounds of English too. What I heard from my linguist professors is that the development of human ears (or ability to hear certain sounds) completes at the age of 3, and after that stage, to be able to recognize any foreign sounds that you didn't hear during the developmental stage will take a lot longer, if not sometimes impossible...



Hi Sara. Thanks for this. 

I also want to add that I go through the same thing with other Asian languauges as well, not just Japanese. Whether it's peoples names, places, foods, etc. I can't hear the way they are saying something.


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## franzb69 (Mar 13, 2013)

> I also want to add that I go through the same thing with other Asian languauges as well, not just Japanese. Whether it's peoples names, places, foods, etc. I can't hear the way they are saying something.



i guess the advantages of being somewhat multilingual and in a diverse multicultural environment does have its merit in learning other countries' languages.


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