# Carter's Honest Edge Ranch



## Dave Martell (Sep 19, 2020)

Honest Edge Ranch







www.honestranch.com


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 19, 2020)

Someone's been spending too much time on the CM IG page.


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## nakiriknaifuwaifu (Sep 19, 2020)

Only 10k, amazing. Into the bin with Ryky he goes.


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## Jville (Sep 19, 2020)

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:


> Only 10k, amazing. Into the bin with Ryky he goes.


At first, i was going to say this us my type of vcay... Until i saw the price .


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## juice (Sep 19, 2020)

Love the way the Mission Statement is in first person, then switches to third person for the bio


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## daveb (Sep 20, 2020)

I bought a knife (couple actually) before he was a deity. 

Does he teach cooking skills as well? 8 days can be a long time to mere mortals.


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 20, 2020)

Wow, Carter is such a renaissance man: in addition to being an Amazing bladesmith he can teach you how to ride a motorcycle, shoot a gun, use a bow and take a bath. And he’s either known these skills or appreciated them for more than 15 years. In my not so humble opinion he should charge more. Much more


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## Jville (Sep 20, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Wow, Carter is such a renaissance man: in addition to being an Amazing bladesmith he can teach you how to ride a motorcycle, shoot a gun, use a bow and take a bath. And he’s either known these skills or appreciated them for more than 15 years. In my not so humble opinion he should charge more. Much more


You can just leave him a Fat Tip Carl.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 20, 2020)

I can taste the Koolaid already


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 20, 2020)

Jville said:


> You can just leave him a Fat Tip Carl.


That’s a good idea!


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## daveb (Sep 20, 2020)

I want to be a helicopter pilot. In 8 days.


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 20, 2020)

daveb said:


> I want to be a helicopter pilot. In 8 days.


Call Murray!


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## M1k3 (Sep 20, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Wow, Carter is such a renaissance man: in addition to being an Amazing bladesmith he can teach you how to ride a motorcycle, shoot a gun, use a bow and take a bath. And he’s either known these skills or appreciated them for more than 15 years. In my not so humble opinion he should charge more. Much more


I've been taking a bath longer than 15 years. How much should I charge people for the privilege of learning this skill?


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 20, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> I've been taking a bath longer than 15 years. How much should I charge people for the privilege of learning this skill?


Start at 1k and work your way up from there!


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## IsoJ (Sep 20, 2020)

Only 10k, do you have an option that Carter himself only uses hand signs and not words


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## IsoJ (Sep 20, 2020)

That would be easily worth +50%


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## Jville (Sep 20, 2020)

daveb said:


> I want to be a helicopter pilot. In 8 days.


If you stay for 2 weeks, you can just build a helicopter with him. At the nearing end of your stay, you can discuss returning to the ranch for your pilots license.


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## ptolemy (Sep 20, 2020)

Some people are truly delirious


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## McMan (Sep 20, 2020)

Jville said:


> You can just leave him a Fat Tip Carl.


Please move to:





The old Dick appreciation thread


I’ve refurbished a few old Dicks - one of them was later sold here on bst - and I’ve really enjoyed it. It was well worth the effort, in my opinion. The patinated (well, most times rusty) carbons were easily the most enjoyable but some Stainless ones were ok too. I often see old semi-destroyed...




www.kitchenknifeforums.com


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## ModRQC (Sep 20, 2020)

There are a few jokes among this kitchen/knife world.

Next will be a seminar from both MoreN'A Quarter and Golden Rambo together. Won't be about knives nor cooking. It will be about making money while losing any serious grounds. The effects of Don'tAll Trump...


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## tostadas (Sep 20, 2020)

This is the coolest rehab advertisement I've seen


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## M1k3 (Sep 20, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> Honest Edge Ranch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So when are you starting your adventure ranch? What nation inspired your tub?


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## Chuckles (Sep 20, 2020)

Immediately made me think of this scene.


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## SHOWERDOOKIE (Sep 20, 2020)

I read that whole page and replaced Carters name with Steven Seagal and it has the same feel to it.

And hey you get a commemorative hat, that’s neat-o.


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## M1k3 (Sep 20, 2020)

Chuckles said:


> Immediately made me think of this scene.



I figured it out! You got to have a cigarette that keeps breaking continuity!


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## drsmp (Sep 20, 2020)

You guys totally skipped over the knife throwing ! Plus the pistol looks like it’s got a silencer or some such cool accessory on it ! I think this is actually an International assassin skills ranch maybe even a Ninja assassin ranch which is totally worth 10k especially when you factor in a limited edition HER sparkly end caps Assassin/kitchen knife. To all you critics, do ninjas even need helicopters ? Not when they have electric trail scooters. Totally silent.


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## M1k3 (Sep 20, 2020)

SHOWERDOOKIE said:


> I read that whole page and replaced Carters name with Steven Seagal Johnny Knoxville and it has the same feel to it.
> 
> And hey you get a commemorative hat, that’s neat-oSteve-O.


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## Chuckles (Sep 20, 2020)

It looks super fun to me. In a if money was no object and I have nothing but free time kind of way.


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## ian (Sep 20, 2020)

Moral: “M.C. is cooler than you are.”


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## Rreidiii (Sep 20, 2020)

Anybody ever been to front sight? And for another $100,000 you can be a Diamond Patriot benefactor but wait a minute there is more. For an additional $500,000 you’ll be one of the very first to stay in our all exclusive hotel spa once it’s built and will be first in line for my next project, a rocket ship to planet Knife and Gun.
Hurry this is a very exclusive package and at these prices it won’t last long so don’t wait...


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## Tim Rowland (Sep 20, 2020)

I was told there was going to be a butter knife shaving class. I want a refund.


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## Lars (Sep 20, 2020)

Haters gonna hate..


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## M1k3 (Sep 20, 2020)

Lars said:


> Haters gonna hate..


How many spots are you purchasing?


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## Lars (Sep 20, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> How many spots are you purchasing?


Why do you ask?


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## M1k3 (Sep 20, 2020)

Lars said:


> Why do you ask?


Curious if you're going to partake in this great opportunity.


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## Lars (Sep 20, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Curious if you're going to partake in this great opportunity.


I don’t think it is a great opportunity.


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## Matus (Sep 20, 2020)

Lars said:


> Haters gonna hate..



Nah, we don’t hate Carter. Just make tun of him. He does make good knives (though it seems they dropped the hand laminated kurouchi series) and is apparently a good business man too. It appears he takes more joy in leading the company and teaching his apprentices than spending 10 hours a day in the shop forging one blade after another. He just seemed to have developed an attitude that not everyone is enchanted with, thus the jokes and mild attacks. I wish him well. I know of no other respected bladesmith that takes so many apprentices and gives them a job.


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## Lars (Sep 20, 2020)

Matus said:


> Nah, we don’t hate Carter. Just make tun of him. He does make good knives (though it seems they dropped the hand laminated kurouchi series) and is apparently a good business man too. It appears he takes more joy in leading the company and teaching his apprentices than spending 10 hours a day in the shop forging one blade after another. He just seemed to have developed an attitude that not everyone is enchanted with, thus the jokes and mild attacks. I wish him well. I know of no other respected bladesmith that takes so many apprentices and gives them a job.


Well said.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 20, 2020)

Chuckles said:


> It looks super fun to me. In a if money was no object and I have nothing but free time kind of way.


Thats everyone here, right?

Well at least he's not wearing bright red nail polish as he lovingly examines the edge.


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## juice (Sep 20, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Well at least he's not wearing bright red nail polish as he lovingly examines the edge.


The way you've phrased that sounds as though you're glad he's not. I, for one, would prefer it if he was, I think it would work well with the overall narrative he's building here.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 20, 2020)

juice said:


> The way you've phrased that sounds as though you're glad he's not. I, for one, would prefer it if he was, I think it would work well with the overall narrative he's building here.


Maybe Chelsea will make a guest appearance. This dude ranch needs a few dudettes for balance.


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 20, 2020)

could I pay extra for Murray to not be there?


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## Tim Rowland (Sep 20, 2020)

Not hating at all.
I actually quite like Carter knives, profiles, and think he is quite talented bladesmith.
We all jest in fun.


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## YumYumSauce (Sep 21, 2020)

Shut up and take my money!


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## ian (Sep 21, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Maybe Chelsea will make a guest appearance. This dude ranch needs a few dudettes for balance.
> View attachment 95498



Kinda a weird picture. Don’t pick your nose with a metal skewer!


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## lemeneid (Sep 21, 2020)




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## DitmasPork (Sep 21, 2020)

Dave Martell said:


> Honest Edge Ranch
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmmm. Some very harsh comments. To be perfectly honest, if I had the money—which I don't—sounds like a fun time and opportunity. I've been so cooped up in NYC since Covid, that the itinerary sounds up my alley—knives, outdoors, with a legend, etc. I've nothing against MC, nor the money he's charging TBH. I don't complain about menu prices at four star restaurants.


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## parbaked (Sep 21, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> I don't complain about menu prices at four star restaurants.



Read the offer...
Would you pay for the meal, one year in advance or enjoy the meal now before the restaurant is finished?


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## DitmasPork (Sep 21, 2020)

parbaked said:


> Read the offer...
> Would you pay for the meal, one year in advance or enjoy the meal now before the restaurant is finished?


Yeah, had read the offer. As I mentioned, it would be if I had the money—which I don't. For a restaurant, if it were a starred chef like Ferran, Redzepi, Bras, et al—yeah, I'd pay in advanced for a seat at a yet to be finished restaurant. Trade fairs I've done, we'd have to pay in advance for a booth.


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## Elliot (Sep 21, 2020)

Prob has more value than a voucher from certain makers. 
Definitely not a fan of Carter, but I think standing on ethics is a bit comical for some makers in this business.


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## tripleq (Sep 21, 2020)

Murray Carter's ideas don't always drink beer, but when they do, they prefer Dos Equis.


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## Uncle Mike (Sep 21, 2020)

Can’t you just go out in the desert and do all that stuff for free?


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## Anton (Sep 21, 2020)

1/3 of a Kramer


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## Chicagohawkie (Sep 21, 2020)

loved his knives back in 2011 when they were 200 bucks. He’s performed as well as the stock market.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 21, 2020)

Chicagohawkie said:


> loved his knives back in 2011 when they were 200 bucks. He’s performed as well as the stock market.



I'm all for knife makers raising their prices based on experience and reputation—gotta make a living. It's like almost any other type of work, start at minimum wage and work your way up. He's paid his dues, has business savvy, and priced his knives and his brand fairly for his target audience. If people sign up for his 'Honest Edge Ranch, then he's read the market right. I'm not his audience, but good for him.


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 21, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Yeah, had read the offer. As I mentioned, it would be if I had the money—which I don't. For a restaurant, if it were a starred chef like Ferran, Redzepi, Bras, et al—yeah, I'd pay in advanced for a seat at a yet to be finished restaurant. Trade fairs I've done, we'd have to pay in advance for a booth.


I don't think this an appropriate analogy. Those chefs have had great restaurants already. Has Carter ever hosted a week-long retreat? How does being good at forging knives make someone a good event host? Training apprentices who know they're signing up for a master-student relationship under a strong personality (and probably have some blacksmithing experience) is very different from managing the expectations of the type of people willing to pay 10K for this retreat. Apples and oranges.

And that's just the knife making, not to mention the rest of this ad hoc ninja academy...


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## M1k3 (Sep 21, 2020)




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## DitmasPork (Sep 21, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> I don't think this an appropriate analogy. Those chefs have had great restaurants already. Has Carter ever hosted a week-long retreat? How does being good at forging knives make someone a good event host? Training apprentices who know they're signing up for a master-student relationship under a strong personality (and probably have some blacksmithing experience) is very different from managing the expectations of the type of people willing to pay 10K for this retreat. Apples and oranges.
> 
> And that's just the knife making, not to mention the rest of this ad hoc ninja academy...



Don't much about him, but I respect his ambition. 

It's like the line from 'Field of Dreams'—"If You Build It, They Will Come."

I launched a business without knowing much about all that was involves, just gotta go for it. Have also given 5-day workshops without having done it before—not difficult if organized and willing to do the work involved. Hosting an event is not that hard to do.

During these covid times, many are just getting creative on bringing in extra income.


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## Noodle Soup (Sep 21, 2020)

I keep hearing people in my circles say things like "I can't afford it but you know there are people in NYC that have more money than brains that will probably sign up!" My question is are there really a deep pool of rich people looking for a chance to spend $10,000 on spending a week with Murray? I tend to think some people in the knife business over estimate the more money than brains angle-with maybe the exception of Kramer stuff.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 21, 2020)

Uncle Mike said:


> Can’t you just go out in the desert and do all that stuff for free?


Who's going to serve the koolaid?


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## DitmasPork (Sep 21, 2020)

Noodle Soup said:


> I keep hearing people in my circles say things like "I can't afford it but you know there are people in NYC that have more money than brains that will probably sign up!" My question is are there really a deep pool of rich people looking for a chance to spend $10,000 on spending a week with Murray? I tend to think some people in the knife business over estimate the more money than brains angle-with maybe the exception of Kramer stuff.



Ha! I can't imagine any affluent knife collector in NYC willing to sign up—they'd likely be put off by the 'Tactical Shooting' activities—majority of us in NYC are trying our damndest to limit the numbers of guns!

It's a retreat that'll probably appeal to rich knife enthusiasts from other, more gun friendly states like Texas, Florida, Virginia, etc.

Personally, I like the knife forging aspect, the opportunity to here the man speak of knives, etc. But, like I said, too rich for my blood.


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## Noodle Soup (Sep 21, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Ha! I can't imagine any affluent knife collector in NYC willing to sign up—they'd likely be put off by the 'Tactical Shooting' activities—majority of us in NYC are trying our damndest to limit the numbers of guns!
> 
> It's a retreat that'll probably appeal to rich knife enthusiasts from other, more gun friendly states like Texas, Florida, Virginia, etc.
> 
> Personally, I like the knife forging aspect, the opportunity to here the man speak of knives, etc. But, like I said, too rich for my blood.



I'll add you to that column of "I can't afford it but I think there are rich people"


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 21, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Personally, I like the knife forging aspect, the opportunity to here the man speak of knives, etc. But, like I said, too rich for my blood.


Do the shop course and save $$$$$$$ No hat though


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## DevinT (Sep 21, 2020)

He bought a ranch and will let others pay for it. Simple 

Hoss


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## nwshull (Sep 21, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Ha! I can't imagine any affluent knife collector in NYC willing to sign up—they'd likely be put off by the 'Tactical Shooting' activities—majority of us in NYC are trying our damndest to limit the numbers of guns!
> 
> It's a retreat that'll probably appeal to rich knife enthusiasts from other, more gun friendly states like Texas, Florida, Virginia, etc.
> 
> Personally, I like the knife forging aspect, the opportunity to here the man speak of knives, etc. But, like I said, too rich for my blood.


Falling within the urbanite demographic here, I'm not at all against learning to shoot. But its more the 'tactical' addition that leaves a poor taste in my mouth, where it feels like we're practicing to shoot people not deer. He'd be much better off if advertising to the demographic taking off the silencers and having wooden stocks.


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## Luftmensch (Sep 21, 2020)

> In the spirit of collaboration, this knife is going to be hand forged by both myself, as the master smith, and _you_ as the guest. We are gonna forge that together. Laminate the steel. _You_ are going to quench it in the water. Grind it on the rotating water stones. And then we're going to go out and try cutting all sorts of different things with it



... Tactical stabbing....?

....


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## DitmasPork (Sep 21, 2020)

nwshull said:


> Falling within the urbanite demographic here, I'm not at all against learning to shoot. But its more the 'tactical' addition that leaves a poor taste in my mouth, where it feels like we're practicing to shoot people not deer. He'd be much better off if advertising to the demographic taking off the silencers and having wooden stocks.


I’d agree with that! I’m not against gun, just didn’t respond to the meta language in a positive way.


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## NO ChoP! (Sep 21, 2020)

Well, I'll start it off with a $20 pledge to send one lucky kid to camp...


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## Noodle Soup (Sep 22, 2020)

DevinT said:


> He bought a ranch and will let others pay for it. Simple
> 
> Hoss


That was pretty much my take on it too. Who wouldn't want out of the Portland, Oregon area right now? And for those that don't know Murray personally, he is a very "tactical" kind of guy. Idaho is perfect for him.


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## orangehero (Sep 22, 2020)

he used to do knife centric tours of japan that seemed interesting


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## DitmasPork (Sep 22, 2020)

NO ChoP! said:


> Well, I'll start it off with a $20 pledge to send one lucky kid to camp...


Do a raffle—just need 500 KKF members coughing up $20 each to reach $10k, sending one lucky KKFer to the ranch.


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## Chuckles (Sep 22, 2020)

I am in but do not have the bandwidth to organize.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 22, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Do a raffle—just need 500 KKF members coughing up $20 each to reach $10k, sending one lucky KKFer to the ranch.


Not liking those odds at all.


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## Kippington (Sep 22, 2020)

I'll start a budget Australian version. Instead of shooting, you can throw rocks at empty beer bottles. We can work together to fix my garden. And if we're not to drunk, you can forge something too.
Only $5,000 per person!


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 22, 2020)

I might be interested.. what's your outdoor bathing situation?


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## M1k3 (Sep 22, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> I might be interested.. what's your outdoor bathing situation?


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## parbaked (Sep 22, 2020)

Kippington said:


> And if we're not to drunk, you can forge something too.


If I fly all the way to Australia I want the patented Parrot LSD forging experience...I'll pay $10K...that's American dollars.
I assume the catered meals will be meat pies??


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## nwshull (Sep 22, 2020)

Kippington said:


> I'll start a budget Australian version. Instead of shooting, you can throw rocks at empty beer bottles. We can work together to fix my garden. And if we're not to drunk, you can forge something too.
> Only $5,000 per person!


Two questions:
1) Do we get to do the Dundee knife line at the end of the forging process?
2) Do we get to fight a crocodile with said knife to prove our anatomical adequacy?


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## BillHanna (Sep 22, 2020)

Who’s the caterer? @juice ?


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## M1k3 (Sep 22, 2020)

BillHanna said:


> Who’s the caterer? @juice ?


And @Michi!
Not everyone is Keto


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## spaceconvoy (Sep 22, 2020)

nwshull said:


> 1) Do we get to do the Dundee knife line at the end of the forging process?


I assumed that anyone who says "that's not a knife..." even ironically, would be immediately ejected without refund


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## Kippington (Sep 22, 2020)

parbaked said:


> I assume the catered meals will be meat pies??


Keto friendly...


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 22, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> View attachment 95793


Luxury all the way.

We can call it Kip's Dishonest Chipped Edge Outback Station. Or Kip's Thunderdome Knife Experience. "Ten Knife Nerds Enter, One Knife Nerd Leaves"


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## juice (Sep 22, 2020)

Kippington said:


> I'll start a budget Australian version. Instead of shooting, you can throw rocks at empty beer bottles. We can work together to fix my garden. And if we're not to drunk, you can forge something too.


I'm 13km from you, sadly, so can't get there yet :-(



Kippington said:


> Only $5,000 per person!


US$5000



nwshull said:


> 1) Do we get to do the Dundee knife line at the end of the forging process?
> 2) Do we get to fight a crocodile with said knife to prove our anatomical adequacy?


I vote yes and yes



BillHanna said:


> Who’s the caterer? @juice ?


Burgers and steaks! Full breakfasts!



M1k3 said:


> And @Michi!
> Not everyone is Keto


Yeah, that's a better idea overall

@Byphy would probably agree 



spaceconvoy said:


> I assumed that anyone who says "that's not a knife..." even ironically, would be immediately ejected without refund


No, I hear it quite a bit, you'd be pretty safe. Aussies are very good at taking the piss out of themselves.



Kippington said:


> Keto friendly...


Mmm, yeah, that's worth cleaning up a garden for.



Corradobrit1 said:


> "Ten Knife Nerds Enter, One Knife Nerd Leaves"


Remember, it's Australia, the wildlife would probably kill the final one anyway.


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## Kippington (Sep 22, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> We can call it Kip's Dishonest Chipped Edge Outback Station. Or Kip's Thunderdome Knife Experience. "Ten Knife Nerds Enter, One Knife Nerd Leaves"


*'Kippington's Honest Gulag'*
- You'll never want to leave!​


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## juice (Sep 22, 2020)

It's like a Melbourne Hotel California


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## M1k3 (Sep 22, 2020)

juice said:


> It's like a Melbourne Hotel California


Will there be colitas?


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## M1k3 (Sep 22, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> I assumed that anyone who says "that's not a knife..." even ironically, would be immediately ejected without refund


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## Anton (Sep 23, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Maybe Chelsea will make a guest appearance. This dude ranch needs a few dudettes for balance.
> View attachment 95498


who this??


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## M1k3 (Sep 23, 2020)

Anton said:


> who this??


Chelsea Miller. She makes cheese graters and the occasional knife.


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## Byphy (Sep 23, 2020)

juice said:


> Burgers and steaks! Full breakfasts!
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's a better idea overall
> ...



I'm always game for Australian satay


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## DitmasPork (Sep 23, 2020)

Oh, I didn't realize there's a 'sale' on the 6-Day Adventure! That's a savings of $190.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 23, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Maybe Chelsea will make a guest appearance. This dude ranch needs a few dudettes for balance.
> View attachment 95498


She'd have to sell 12.5 knives to earn 10k to attend the 6-Day Adventure. I think MC should offer CM a complimentary spot and do a collab knife. 'MCCM Knives'!


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## DitmasPork (Sep 23, 2020)

Looks spooky TBH.


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## Noodle Soup (Sep 23, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Looks spooky TBH.



Looks like were my wife's dad grew up and ranched in Idaho. Lots of family still over there.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 23, 2020)

Is fixing that fence part of the 'adventure'?


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## M1k3 (Sep 23, 2020)

Noodle Soup said:


> Looks like were my wife's dad grew up and ranched in Idaho. Lots of family still over there.


Do they have a Japanese outdoor bathtub?


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 23, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Do they have a Japanese outdoor bathtub?


No, that's the Kippington Gulag's USP, though its more of a trough than a bathtub


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## Noodle Soup (Sep 23, 2020)

Not sure they even had running water in those days. It started out as a real deal homestead


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## M1k3 (Sep 23, 2020)

Noodle Soup said:


> Not sure they even had running water in those days. It started out as a real deal homestead


Hmm, you're not really selling me on your families alternative to Carter's offering.


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## DitmasPork (Sep 23, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Is fixing that fence part of the 'adventure'?



Yes. It's a requirement. You don't eat unless you work.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 23, 2020)

I can see where this is heading


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## Jville (Sep 23, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Maybe Chelsea will make a guest appearance. This dude ranch needs a few dudettes for balance.
> View attachment 95498



Thats the worst choil shot I have ever seen.


BillHanna said:


> Who’s the caterer? @juice ?


No he will be taking pictures.


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## Jville (Sep 23, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Who's going to serve the koolaid?


I know this guy Jim that makes some killa Koolaid.


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## Carl Kotte (Sep 23, 2020)

Kippington said:


> I'll start a budget Australian version. Instead of shooting, you can throw rocks at empty beer bottles. We can work together to fix my garden. And if we're not to drunk, you can forge something too.
> Only $5,000 per person!


Can we take a bath together too? It doesn’t have to be Japanese.


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## M1k3 (Sep 23, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Can we take a bath together too? It doesn’t have to be Japanese.


You should dress like a Geisha.


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## juice (Sep 23, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Oh, I didn't realize there's a 'sale' on the 6-Day Adventure! That's a savings of $190.


This reminds me of those email lists you end up on, and they send out an email promoting something, then three days later you get ANOTHER email about it, but this one has the subject line: "Sorry, I got some really inconsequential detail in the first email 'wrong' so here's the correct version that put this in front of your eyeballs again!" (may not be actual wording). The idea that if you were inclined to spend $10K on this you wouldn't spend $10.2 without a moronic $200 discount is too stupid for words.


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## Corradobrit1 (Sep 23, 2020)

juice said:


> This reminds me of those email lists you end up on, and they send out an email promoting something, then three days later you get ANOTHER email about it, but this one has the subject line: "Sorry, I got some really inconsequential detail in the first email 'wrong' so here's the correct version that put this in front of your eyeballs again!" (may not be actual wording). The idea that if you were inclined to spend $10K on this you wouldn't spend $10.2 without a moronic $200 discount is too stupid for words.


Or Murray is the Master Marketeer. Certainly creating some buzz on the interwebz


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## Matus (Sep 23, 2020)

Moving this to off topic for obvious reasons


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## DitmasPork (Sep 23, 2020)

Matus said:


> Moving this to off topic for obvious reasons


Makes sense. BTW, shouldn't all the threads that veered way off topic, and subsequently locked, be moved here and remain open? Honest question.


----------



## Carl Kotte (Sep 23, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> You should dress like a Geisha.


Have you seen my kimono?


----------



## juice (Sep 23, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> all the threads that veered way off topic


i.e. all the threads



Carl Kotte said:


> Have you seen my kimono?


Carl, lion around in a kimono


----------



## Jville (Sep 24, 2020)

labor of love said:


> They’ve just sat there on the shelf, instock for quite some time.
> Wassup with that? Ugly cktg handles?





DitmasPork said:


> Oh, I didn't realize there's a 'sale' on the 6-Day Adventure! That's a savings of $190.
> 
> View attachment 95858


He should of priced it at 9,999.00 It would of looked so much cheaper. He should know better.


----------



## juice (Sep 24, 2020)

Jville said:


> He should of priced it at 9,999.00 It would of looked so much cheaper. He should know better.


I think the people who are attracted to this LIKE that it's five figures


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Sep 24, 2020)

Carl Kotte said:


> Have you seen my kimono?


Is it beige?


----------



## MontezumaBoy (Sep 24, 2020)

I wonder if whomever purchased the Bordain Estate Kramer wouldn't have decided to take 22 of his/her best friends to this place for a week instead ... 23X Murray's compared to 1X Bob's ... bring along Geisha Carl sporting a bright neon Kimono and you have 6+ days of pure ninja bathing excitement ... 

Personally I'm leaning more towards the if money was nothing this thing could be kinda fun ... but hey I like blowing things up ... just saying ... but the Oz versions sound a lot more fun ...


----------



## Matus (Sep 24, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Makes sense. BTW, shouldn't all the threads that veered way off topic, and subsequently locked, be moved here and remain open? Honest question.


Well, depends which direction they take. Plus this one wasn’t particularly on topic to begin with.


----------



## captaincaed (Oct 6, 2020)

Chuckles said:


> It looks super fun to me. In a if money was no object and I have nothing but free time kind of way.


Yeah if I made crazy money behind a computer, and just wanted to throw money away to get away...he's got the story to sell something like this, I just wonder if it would be any good.


----------



## parbaked (Oct 6, 2020)

I think I'd need a vacation after all that instruction....


----------



## nwshull (Oct 6, 2020)

I'd kind of like a thread from Murray like the one Xerxes recently made on the prices for this.


----------



## DitmasPork (Oct 6, 2020)

nwshull said:


> I'd kind of like a thread from Murray like the one Xerxes recently made on the prices for this.


I just feel that different makers position prices at whatever level their clientele are comfortable with. Cooks/collectors buying MC knives seem cool with the prices, or they wouldn’t be buying them. For me, MC (or any maker) shouldn’t need to justify pricing.

That said, yes it would make for a fascinating thread.


----------



## nwshull (Oct 6, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> I just feel that different makers position prices at whatever level their clientele are comfortable with. Cooks/collectors buying MC knives seem cool with the prices, or they wouldn’t be buying them. For me, MC (or any maker) shouldn’t need to justify pricing.
> 
> That said, yes it would make for a fascinating thread.


Yeah I'm not criticizing the other thread, I think its fine to make a living wage and quite understandable to charge what's needed for a profit, but more would be curious to MC's superfluous descriptors. After all the man has forged over 20000 blades... (number is probably not current)


----------



## DitmasPork (Oct 6, 2020)

nwshull said:


> Yeah I'm not criticizing the other thread, I think its fine to make a living wage and quite understandable to charge what's needed for a profit, but more would be curious to MC's superfluous descriptors. After all the man has forged over 20000 blades... (number is probably not current)



Well, McDonald's has sold over 300 billion burgers and manages to keep prices down! I'm all for knife makers making a good living for their craft, be it MC or CM or TF or YT. Pretty much every job I've left was to climb the ladder going to a job that paid more money (except for my current job which is a labor of love)—I believe knife makers deserve a similar trajectory. Longer they make knives, the more experience they have, the more established their name becomes—then naturally, prices should go up.


----------



## juice (Oct 6, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Well, McDonald's has sold over 300 billion burgers and manages to keep prices down!


Because they use the cheapest ingredients they buy at huge scale. They're not concerned about the quality of the food, and it only has to last minutes (although, as we know, there's so much crap in them they'll actually last for years).


----------



## parbaked (Oct 6, 2020)

juice said:


> Because they use the cheapest ingredients they buy at huge scale. They're not concerned about the quality of the food, and it only has to last minutes (although, as we know, there's so much crap in them they'll actually last for years).


This and the margins on soda....


----------



## DitmasPork (Oct 6, 2020)

juice said:


> Because they use the cheapest ingredients they buy at huge scale. They're not concerned about the quality of the food, and it only has to last minutes (although, as we know, there's so much crap in them they'll actually last for years).


True dat. I would venture to guess—since I know little of knife making—that costs of materials make up only a fraction of the total cost of knives above a certain price point, say $400+? Most cost maybe attributable to time/labor of skilled craftsmen, marketing, whatever? This just conjecture, would really love to learn more about it.


----------



## juice (Oct 6, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> True dat. I would venture to guess—since I know little of knife making—that costs of materials make up only a fraction of the total cost of knives above a certain price point, say $400+?


Yeah, the thread (first post, anyway) Statement on the prices of Xerxes Knives. is really worth a read.


----------



## nwshull (Oct 6, 2020)

juice said:


> Yeah, the thread (first post, anyway) Statement on the prices of Xerxes Knives. is really worth a read.


He should just have spyderco make the knives for him. Then charge 10000 bucks for a dude ranch.... with hookers and blackjack.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2020)

parbaked said:


> This and the margins on soda....



might just be the highest margin product in the world ...


----------



## DitmasPork (Oct 7, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> might just be the highest margin product in the world ...


Higher than bottled water?


----------



## DitmasPork (Oct 7, 2020)

Good time to pull the proverbial trigger, he's having a BIG sale.


----------



## Twigg (Oct 7, 2020)

juice said:


> Because they use the cheapest ingredients they buy at huge scale. They're not concerned about the quality of the food, and it only has to last minutes (although, as we know, there's so much crap in them they'll actually last for years).


I disagree in part as this is not really food. I argue that it is a very slow kill poison that happens to have some macronutrients present.


----------



## Robert Lavacca (Oct 7, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Looks spooky TBH.



Sh*t.. after this year.. that place looks like heaven. Not a human in sight


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 7, 2020)

Twigg said:


> I disagree in part as this is not really food. I argue that it is a very slow kill poison that happens to have some macronutrients present.


In n Out or go home


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> Higher than bottled water?



Yes.
Think about it: all that’s shipped is a bag full of super concentrated syrup. It’s mixed with tap water at the restaurant. Tap water is basically free, in quite a few countries it actually IS free ...

Bottled water has a lot more packaging and transport costs ....


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2020)

Twigg said:


> I disagree in part as this is not really food. I argue that it is a very slow kill poison that happens to have some macronutrients present.



a lot of food you can buy at a supermarket is equally bad or worse... and people eat it a lot more often.

On average a customer visits a McD twice a month. That doesn’t kill you. Not even slowly. Going twice a month and eating crap food the other 28 days will kill ya....


----------



## Twigg (Oct 7, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> a lot of food you can buy at a supermarket is equally bad or worse... and people eat it a lot more often.
> 
> On average a customer visits a McD twice a month. That doesn’t kill you. Not even slowly. Going twice a month and eating crap food the other 28 days will kill ya....


Of course, your statement is probably correct. I still view that stuff as disgusting poison. It really all comes down to human behavior. What is easy, tasty, quicker seems to fit the bill for a lot of people. Its sad, because a person can learn to prepare decent meals that are healthy without too much trouble.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Of course, your statement is probably correct. I still view that stuff as disgusting poison. It really all comes down to human behavior. What is easy, tasty, quicker seems to fit the bill for a lot of people. Its sad, because a person can learn to prepare decent meals that are healthy without too much trouble.



that’s true.... it’s human behavior. I hate when people blame the companies, blame yourself. If YOU don’t buy it, you’re good! If everyone acts like you, crap food isn’t offered.

People complain that McD & Co don’t offer healthier food.... guess what: if people would demand and BUY it, you’d see it tomorrow. People want to consume it. Just like people want to smoke, drink and do other sh** that’s not good for them.


----------



## AT5760 (Oct 7, 2020)

It is not in McD's best interest to offer a ton of FF&V. They certainly can't do it at the same price point as frozen/preserved stuff. Fresh food costs more. It needs to be used quickly, so the supply chain considerations for a company that is serving millions of meals a day are immense. They serve what they serve because it is profitable. I'm a big believer in the idea that large businesses create demand by driving choices, the "market" has far less power than perceived.


----------



## juice (Oct 7, 2020)

Twigg said:


> I disagree in part as this is not really food. I argue that it is a very slow kill poison that happens to have some macronutrients present.


Same, I was just using "food" in the generally recognised form. And they're the worst macronutrients as well - carbs and fat together.



alterwisser said:


> People complain that McD & Co don’t offer healthier food.... guess what: if people would demand and BUY it, you’d see it tomorrow.


No you wouldn't. They'd redouble their efforts to keep their current high-margin products available. They're not giving people what they want, they're giving people what they've been trained to want.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2020)

juice said:


> They're not giving people what they want, they're giving people what they've been trained to want.



and it’s still your responsibility to feed yourself in a proper way. You’re not forced to go to McD or take drugs. It’s your choice. You can also make healthy meals at home and refrain from taking drugs.

you absolutely and 100% can influence this, by just not going! There’s a lot of other harmful stuff in your environment that you cannot control at all.

You CAN influence this. Don’t go! There are only two things that can happen if you don’t go: the menu will change or McD will go bankrupt. That’s it.


----------



## juice (Oct 7, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> and it’s still your responsibility to feed yourself in a proper way. You’re not forced to go to McD or take drugs. It’s your choice. You can also make healthy meals at home and refrain from taking drugs.


And I don't do those things. I haven't eaten at McDonald's in well over a decade, and that was a thickshake. But I also recognise that I am privileged to be in a position to make those choices.

Way too many people live in food deserts where there are no good options for actual food, or they're working three jobs and literally don't have the time to make proper food. Or the facilities, if they live in crap accommodation. Or the knowledge, if they've been brought up in similar circumstances/surroundings.

It's a society/world-wide problem (although not as bad here as in other places) that extends WELL past the somewhat simplistic notion of personal responsibility.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2020)

juice said:


> And I don't do those things. I haven't eaten at McDonald's in well over a decade, and that was a thickshake. But I also recognise that I am privileged to be in a position to make those choices.
> 
> Way too many people live in food deserts where there are no good options for actual food, or they're working three jobs and literally don't have the time to make proper food. Or the facilities, if they live in crap accommodation. Or the knowledge, if they've been brought up in similar circumstances/surroundings.
> 
> It's a society/world-wide problem (although not as bad here as in other places) that extends WELL past the somewhat simplistic notion of personal responsibility.



You’re certainly right with a lot of what you state, but I ask you: should McDonalds & Co be responsible for providing nutritious food at affordable prices? Can these companies be blamed for the lack of affordable and healthy alternatives?

There are really only two ways: it’s an individual’s responsibility... or it’s the government’s. Either directly or indirectly through force (regulations) applied to private companies.

And while time is a very difficult component of this, I’m not sure choice is. A simplified example: if you go to a Wal Mart super Store (or a supermarket of your choice), you always have healthy choices. My local Walmart in the US had them all right at the entrance. First thing you saw: sweet potatoes, apples, melons, spinach etc.

when people bypass that and load up on chips and soda.... that’s choice.

i believe that lack of education is a major problem. It’s shocking how many people just don’t know how bad soda is ...


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 7, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> You’re certainly right with a lot of what you state, but I ask you: should McDonalds & Co be responsible for providing nutritious food at affordable prices? Can these companies be blamed for the lack of affordable and healthy alternatives?
> 
> There are really only two ways: it’s an individual’s responsibility... or it’s the government’s. Either directly or indirectly through force (regulations) applied to private companies.
> 
> ...


The government could choose to subsidize heathy foods instead. Or just not subsidize foods that will be turned into sugar? Corn -> corn syrup.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> The government could choose to subsidize heathy foods instead. Or just not subsidize foods that will be turned into sugar? Corn -> corn syrup.


 
but but but .... isn’t that .... socialism???


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 7, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> but but but .... isn’t that .... socialism???


Not if you stop the subsidies.


----------



## VICTOR J CREAZZI (Oct 7, 2020)

The movie 'Food Inc' goes into how the corn subsidies make fast food a cheap source of calories for households where every dollar counts.

They compare dollar deal hamburgers to a head of broccoli for $1.39. The broccoli still needs to be taken home and prepared and provides fewer calories.

One of the reasons that obesity is so prevalent among the poorest people.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2020)

VICTOR J CREAZZI said:


> The movie 'Food Inc' goes into how the corn subsidies make fast food a cheap source of calories for households where every dollar counts.
> 
> They compare dollar deal hamburgers to a head of broccoli for $1.39. The broccoli still needs to be taken home and prepared and provides fewer calories.
> 
> One of the reasons that obesity is so prevalent among the poorest people.



i think it’s disgusting that a burger (meat after all!) can be cheaper (and still profitable) than a piece of veggies ...

Nutritionwise the burger isn’t even the evil, it’s the fries and the soda. If you replace fries. with a side salad and soda with water you’re suddenly looking at a completely different picture ...


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 7, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> i think it’s disgusting that a burger (meat after all!) can be cheaper (and still profitable) than a piece of veggies ...
> 
> Nutritionwise the burger isn’t even the evil, it’s the fries and the soda. If you replace fries. with a side salad and soda with water you’re suddenly looking at a completely different picture ...


Don't forget the bread/not-bread








For Subway, A Ruling Not So Sweet. Irish Court Says Its Bread Isn't Bread


Yes, Ireland has a legal definition for bread. And the nation's Supreme Court said Subway's bread has too much sugar to satisfy it.




www.npr.org





Macca's buns are worse. Not sure how Ireland missed that...


----------



## Twigg (Oct 7, 2020)

Sugar buns!!!


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 7, 2020)

I think I recall that sausages in Finland have so much bread in them that they don’t classify as a meat product anymore .... but then again, I had tar flavored Soda in Finland!


----------



## orangehero (Oct 7, 2020)

juice said:


> Way too many people live in food deserts where there are no good options for actual food



The term "food desert" is deceptive and used to argue for an agenda. All it means is that you have to walk half a mile to the grocery store.


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 7, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Sugar buns!!!


Candy Parks' stage name?


----------



## DitmasPork (Oct 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> The government could choose to subsidize heathy foods instead. Or just not subsidize foods that will be turned into sugar? Corn -> corn syrup.


I'd rather see more subsidies, or a major redistribution. The majority of farms in the US are small family run farms—the majority of subsidies goes to the big agri biz.


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 7, 2020)

DitmasPork said:


> I'd rather see more subsidies, or a major redistribution. The majority of farms in the US are small family run farms—the majority of subsidies goes to the big agri biz.





alterwisser said:


> but but but .... isn’t that .... socialism???


----------



## juice (Oct 7, 2020)

orangehero said:


> The term "food desert" is deceptive and used to argue for an agenda. All it means is that you have to walk half a mile to the grocery store.


LOL, got a mirror?


----------



## Matus (Oct 7, 2020)

Normally I tend to object if a thread goes totally off topic, however in this case I just won't ...


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 7, 2020)

Matus said:


> Normally I tend to object if a thread goes totally off topic, however in this case I just won't ...


Cheers!


----------



## orangehero (Oct 7, 2020)

juice said:


> LOL, got a mirror?


Do I have a mirror? Sociology is a pseudoscience. I live in a "Food Desert", because the huge grocery store is 1.3 miles away. I have to go past it to get fast food, yet somehow I'm underserved according to the definitions they use.


----------



## Matus (Oct 7, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Cheers!


Don't push it


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 7, 2020)

Matus said:


> Don't push it


----------



## spaceconvoy (Oct 7, 2020)

He's made himself into a meme because that's what works for his business strategy. I mean come on, look at how much styling gel must have gone into that hair... stupid sexy carter


----------



## Twigg (Oct 7, 2020)

Thats old school Vaseline hair tonic.

What would you call it, if, say, you were in a country, maybe an island and most foods were bland and they liked to boil meats in water?


----------



## juice (Oct 7, 2020)

Twigg said:


> What would you call it, if, say, you were in a country, maybe an island and most foods were bland and they liked to boil meats in water?


England?


----------



## Twigg (Oct 7, 2020)

Would that be a food swamp?


----------



## DitmasPork (Oct 7, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> He's made himself into a meme because that's what works for his business strategy. I mean come on, look at how much styling gel must have gone into that hair... stupid sexy carter



Incorrect. That’s camellia oil.


----------



## spaceconvoy (Oct 7, 2020)

Twigg said:


> Would that be a food swamp?


Food bog sounds more british


DitmasPork said:


> Incorrect. That’s camellia oil.


Ah yes, I forgot that whatever he used would have to be an ancient japanese product... maybe raw ambergris from minke whales? Smells great in the traditional open-air bath


----------



## McMan (Oct 7, 2020)

orangehero said:


> Sociology is a pseudoscience.


Not a fan of Durkheim, eh?


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 7, 2020)

juice said:


> England?


Maybe 30+ years ago. Now we have Gordon Ramsey and haut cuisine coming out our butts.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 8, 2020)

I admit it’s not “easy” to have a healthy diet on a low budget, but there are plenty of sources on this thing called www that show how it can be done....

One example: it’s easy and fast to pour some milk over sugary breakfast cereals in the morning, but is it really more expensive and labor intensive to pour some milk over oats? Or prep some oats the night before with some frozen fruit? I do that for the whole fam most nights and it literally takes me 5 min, even though I make 2 different types and with more ingredients...

i do believe though, that in a society that has subsidized (or call it socialized, single payer or whatever) healthcare, it would be cheaper in the long run to spend money on educating people about healthy diets and to subsidize healthy food than to pay the immense costs of the results of a lifelong of improper nutrition ...

this obviously doesn’t apply to the US, and I don’t want to get political here, it’s just a fact. In the US there’s an emphasis on business, and unfortunately a lot of money can be made getting people sick.... and treating sick people.


----------



## IsoJ (Oct 8, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> I think I recall that sausages in Finland have so much bread in them that they don’t classify as a meat product anymore .... but then again, I had tar flavored Soda in Finland!


Yeah, we got all from 5% to 95% to choose from. I haven't tried tar flavored soda but tar throatpastilles are good.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 8, 2020)

IsoJ said:


> Yeah, we got all from 5% to 95% to choose from. I haven't tried tar flavored soda but tar throatpastilles are good.



I’m not even hating haha....

There are few things better than a BBQ outside your Mökki after a couple of rounds of Sauna, I don’t even care how much bread is in the sausage. I can just do without the smoked beer though. I will never acquire that taste lol


----------



## M1k3 (Oct 8, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> I’m not even hating haha....
> 
> There are few things better than a BBQ outside your Mökki after a couple of rounds of Sauna, I don’t even care how much bread is in the sausage. I can just do without the smoked beer though. I will never acquire that taste lol


What kind of pipe or other apparatus do you smoke beer out of? This is something totally new to me! Would be a neat party trick to show all the cool kids.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 8, 2020)

I just found out that there’s actually a smoked pumpkin beer... can it get more disgusting?!


----------



## IsoJ (Oct 8, 2020)

Smoked beer in Finland I believe you mean sahti? That is the real thing


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 8, 2020)

IsoJ said:


> Smoked beer in Finland I believe you mean sahti? That is the real thing



probably.... I banned the name from my memory. A region in Bavaria is also famous for it, but I just can’t stand it, and I love all things smoked.


----------



## parbaked (Oct 8, 2020)

IsoJ said:


> Yeah, we got all from 5% to 95% to choose from.


 If you put enough bread in your sausage you don't need a bun...genius!


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 8, 2020)

parbaked said:


> If you put enough bread in your sausage you don't need a bun...genius!



one of the best ways to eat a sausage doesn’t need a bun anyway ...


----------



## Noodle Soup (Oct 8, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> probably.... I banned the name from my memory. A region in Bavaria is also famous for it, but I just can’t stand it, and I love all things smoked.


I'm with you on that. Had it in Nuremberg in a really tiny place up on the hill. Yuck! Too much good German beer for that.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 8, 2020)

Noodle Soup said:


> I'm with you on that. Had it in Nuremberg in a really tiny place up on the hill. Yuck! Too much good German beer for that.



especially in that region. It also has the only communal brewery left in the world, I think (somewhere close to Erlangen). The mayor of the town is basically also the head of the brewery ../


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 8, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Maybe 30+ years ago. Now we have Gordon Ramsey and haut cuisine coming out our butts.



True - dining scene in London is amazing and a far cry from what it was 7 years ago


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 19, 2020)

Sold out yet?


----------



## Noodle Soup (Oct 19, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Sold out yet?


Maybe you should ask Murray!


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 19, 2020)

I wonder, if it is open, I am up for forging, hunting, followed by Budo archery so I can discover my inner self. I mean, if they add some old Milwaukee brew beer on tap,, then “it don’t get better than that”


----------



## Corradobrit1 (Oct 19, 2020)

Noodle Soup said:


> Maybe you should ask Murray!


His dog said not fully booked

**


----------



## Noodle Soup (Oct 19, 2020)

The Swiss drink Old Milwaukee? Maybe I will edit my bucket list by one country.


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 19, 2020)

Noodle Soup said:


> The Swiss drink Old Milwaukee? Maybe I will edit my bucket list by one country.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 19, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> I wonder, if it is open, I am up for forging, hunting, followed by Budo archery so I can discover my inner self. I mean, if they add some old Milwaukee brew beer on tap,, then “it don’t get better than that”



nah, needs to be Natty Ice! Stay classy my friend!


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 19, 2020)

So we are talking way above my Pabst Blue Ribbon grade


----------



## Noodle Soup (Oct 19, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> So we are talking way above my Pabst Blue Ribbon grade


Nope, pretty much the same class of beverages.


----------



## spaceconvoy (Oct 19, 2020)

I hope y'all are joking cause Europeans drinking American beer is just sad to me. Like watching hipsters in Tokyo spend $10 for a budweiser (not a joke)


----------



## RockyBasel (Oct 19, 2020)

we are joking, I live right next to Germany, France, and Italy so wine-beer quality is pretty darn good.

I drive over to France to pick-up my bread and cheese, and wine, then to Germany for the rest - both 15 min drive from my home


----------



## orangehero (Oct 19, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> I hope y'all are joking cause Europeans drinking American beer is just sad to me. Like watching hipsters in Tokyo spend $10 for a budweiser (not a joke)


america has been beer mecca for at least the past 10 years


----------



## BillHanna (Oct 19, 2020)

orangehero said:


> america has been beer mecca for at least the past 10 years


Wrong thread


----------



## orangehero (Oct 19, 2020)

I'm saying I don't think they get Natty Daddy's in Switzerland.


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 20, 2020)

E


spaceconvoy said:


> I hope y'all are joking cause Europeans drinking American beer is just sad to me. Like watching hipsters in Tokyo spend $10 for a budweiser (not a joke)



Well.... two thoughts (as a European who learned to love beer in.... THE US )

1) Bud (light), Corrs lite, Natty Ice, Milwaukee’s best, Michelob Ultra and so on.... that’s not beer. That’s flavored water. “flavor” is not a judgement... I’m not saying: “flavor“ = “flavorful”

2) The beer culture in the US is insane and for a long time was sooooooo much better than in Europe. And I’m saying that as a German. German beer mostly sucks. Mass produced Pilsner style crap that all tasted the same (some exceptions in Bavaria and it’s gotten better)

My local beer dealer in the US had over 1000 different beers, the majority from small craft breweries. Amazing stuff.

Still missing my beloved Wookey Jack Black Rye IPA....


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 20, 2020)

orangehero said:


> I'm saying I don't think they get Natty Daddy's in Switzerland.



we can get Michelob Utrabad here... kind of like a crappier version of Natty Ice, just better marketing haha


----------



## IsoJ (Oct 20, 2020)

orangehero said:


> america has been beer mecca for at least the past 10 years


Hmmm...NO


----------



## alterwisser (Oct 20, 2020)

IsoJ said:


> Hmmm...NO



Can you elaborate on that? If you have experience with the US beer scene, I’d be curious what your argument here is.... if you don’t: how do make that statement? What do you base it on?

the US is the country with BY far the most craft breweries in the world. About the same as all European countries combined. From personal experience I can tell you that the beer scene in the US is much more diverse and interesting than the one in Europe ...


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## Matt Jacobs (Oct 20, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> E
> 
> 
> Well.... two thoughts (as a European who learned to love beer in.... THE US )
> ...



Wookey Jack is my all time favorite beer. I cant believe they discontinued it.


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## alterwisser (Oct 20, 2020)

Matt Jacobs said:


> Wookey Jack is my all time favorite beer. I cant believe they discontinued it.



man, I feel ya. I was really sad when I heard. And when we left the US a couple of months later one of my first thoughts was: well, I would not have been able to get it in Europe anyway....

i vividly remember the last one I ever had (I bought all of them in 3 stores the day I heard the news...)


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 20, 2020)

RockyBasel said:


> we are joking, I live right next to Germany, France, and Italy so wine-beer quality is pretty darn good.
> 
> I drive over to France to pick-up my bread and cheese, and wine, then to Germany for the rest - both 15 min drive from my home


When I lived in Monza, I remember driving up to Switzerland at the weekend to fill up with gas and admire the billiard table smooth roads.

You guys in Europe don't know what you're missing. Love me some Juicy Ass


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## alterwisser (Oct 20, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> When I lived in Monza, I remember driving up to Switzerland at the weekend to fill up with gas and admire the billiard table smooth roads.
> 
> You guys in Europe don't know what you're missing. Love me some Juicy Ass
> View attachment 99597


 
People actually drove to Switzerland because something was CHEAPER here? Sounds like fake news to me 

I’d love some of that juicy ass right now! Can I call it “juicy arse” though? Being in Europe and all? Lol


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## IsoJ (Oct 20, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> Can you elaborate on that? If you have experience with the US beer scene, I’d be curious what your argument here is.... if you don’t: how do make that statement? What do you base it on?
> 
> the US is the country with BY far the most craft breweries in the world. About the same as all European countries combined. From personal experience I can tell you that the beer scene in the US is much more diverse and interesting than the one in Europe ...


I was just making a biased opinion out off my ass. I don't have any experience about US beer scene. When I just look at geographic distances in US and Europe and if I needed to decide will I go to US or to Europe discover beer, my choice would be Europe. Maybe I am oldchool and thinking that Europes beerculture is still more diverse than in US.


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## alterwisser (Oct 20, 2020)

IsoJ said:


> I was just making a biased opinion out off my ass. I don't have any experience about US beer scene. When I just look at geographic distances in US and Europe and if I needed to decide will I go to US or to Europe discover beer, my choice would be Europe. Maybe I am oldchool and thinking that Europes beerculture is still more diverse than in US.



its one thing to make traveling distances part of the equation, but if you exclude that ... US is more diverse in terms of variety and experimentation. If you look at history and tradition, then you can’t beat Europe just because of Germany, Belgium an Czech Republic alone ...


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 20, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> People actually drove to Switzerland because something was CHEAPER here? Sounds like fake news to me
> 
> I’d love some of that juicy ass right now! Can I call it “juicy arse” though? Being in Europe and all? Lol


Gas was significantly cheaper in CH vs IT in the 90's. Things might be different now so don't quote me.


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## spaceconvoy (Oct 20, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> ...US is more diverse in terms of variety and experimentation...


Now I see the miscommunication here... y'all are IPA people. Real beer was perfected in Europe a long time ago, and there's not much left to do besides some subtle refinement. I guess some would consider that less interesting.


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## applepieforbreakfast (Oct 20, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Now I see the miscommunication here... y'all are IPA people. Real beer was perfected in Europe a long time ago, and there's not much left to do besides some subtle refinement. I guess some would consider that less interesting.



Real beer is water, grain, hops, and yeast, maybe an adjunct if you want to get real crazy.

The elitism of beer snobs will not stand, man.


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## orangehero (Oct 20, 2020)

They beauty of beer is that you can replicate all of the ingredients anywhere in the world. It's not necessarily tied to geography. I can make an ale on Carter's Honest Edge Ranch with the same water, malt, hops, and yeast as the monks in Belgium do.

There's actually a Trappist brewery in Massachusetts now.


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## alterwisser (Oct 20, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Now I see the miscommunication here... y'all are IPA people. Real beer was perfected in Europe a long time ago, and there's not much left to do besides some subtle refinement. I guess some would consider that less interesting.



IPA is a European beer, invented by the Brits.

It’s a real beer, and it’s really good. Of course there a funky versions with Grapefruit and sh**, but a regular IPA only uses the basic beer ingredients just like the other “perfected” beers


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## IsoJ (Oct 20, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> its one thing to make traveling distances part of the equation, but if you exclude that ... US is more diverse in terms of variety and experimentation. If you look at history and tradition, then you can’t beat Europe just because of Germany, Belgium an Czech Republic alone ...


I see and get your point. I do pay more attention to the tradition. I am sure there are lots of new experimental and wild beers today that can be hit or miss. It sure is interesting to see what from those experimental ones are around in 10-15 years from now.


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 20, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> IPA is a European beer, invented by the Brits.
> 
> It’s a real beer, and it’s really good. Of course there a funky versions with Grapefruit and sh**, but a regular IPA only uses the basic beer ingredients just like the other “perfected” beers


There's a reason why the group CAMRA exists in the UK. 'Real' Ale FTW


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## IsoJ (Oct 20, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> There's a reason why the group CAMRA exists in the UK. 'Real' Ale FTW


Yep, Ale over IPA any hour of the day.


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## spaceconvoy (Oct 20, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> IPA is a European beer, invented by the Brits.
> 
> It’s a real beer, and it’s really good. Of course there a funky versions with Grapefruit and sh**, but a regular IPA only uses the basic beer ingredients just like the other “perfected” beers


Are the British Isles part of Europe  I seem to remember them passing a few laws to the contrary. But the origin is unimportant.

If beers were knives, then central European pilsners would be like Sanjo double bevels. Deceptively simple, perfected to near-uniformity, with subtle but important differences between each one. IPAs are like the crap on CKTG, competing for attention with more and more ridiculous bells and whistles each year. I'm not even talking about the ones with weird flavors, even regular IPAs with no additives tend to be overly intense and funky to me, like a flavor arms race.


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## applepieforbreakfast (Oct 20, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Are the British Isles part of Europe  I seem to remember them passing a few laws to the contrary. But the origin is unimportant.
> 
> If beers were knives, then central European pilsners would be like Sanjo double bevels. Deceptively simple, perfected to near-uniformity, with subtle but important differences between each one. IPAs are like the crap on CKTG, competing for attention with more and more ridiculous bells and whistles each year. I'm not even talking about the ones with weird flavors, even regular IPAs with no additives tend to be overly intense and funky to me, like a flavor arms race.




You know, they say that as we age, bitter things tend to become more palatable. Dark chocolate, Brussels sprouts, etc. Maybe you're just not there yet. Maybe try one again in a few years? Start with a Pale Ale, and gradually work your way up, because I can definitely understand an IPA being overwhelming right off the bat.


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## spaceconvoy (Oct 20, 2020)

It's not the bitterness I mind, its the background sweetness that the bitterness is trying to conceal. I prefer a drier beer. And I'm not sure why I would want to 'work my way up.' To what exactly? That's like saying start with a pepperoni pizza then work your way up to anchovy and pineapple. Some people just prefer a really good margherita.


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## alterwisser (Oct 20, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> Are the British Isles part of Europe  I seem to remember them passing a few laws to the contrary. But the origin is unimportant.
> 
> If beers were knives, then central European pilsners would be like Sanjo double bevels. Deceptively simple, perfected to near-uniformity, with subtle but important differences between each one. IPAs are like the crap on CKTG, competing for attention with more and more ridiculous bells and whistles each year. I'm not even talking about the ones with weird flavors, even regular IPAs with no additives tend to be overly intense and funky to me, like a flavor arms race.



It doesn’t Matter what they decide on the isles, they are part of Europe. Will be until new continents form millions of years from now.

And quite frankly: you pointed it out, you’re talking about personal preferences. It’s your right to prefer mass produced Pilsner or lager, but doesn’t make it a “better” beer. An iPa or pale ale can be much more complex and yes, an acquired taste. But the same can be said for a lot of stuff, like Kimchi.

Mass produced European beers are like tilapia. And some just prefer grilled sardines


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## orangehero (Oct 20, 2020)

spaceconvoy said:


> I'm not even talking about the ones with weird flavors, even regular IPAs with no additives tend to be overly intense and funky to me, like a flavor arms race.



I'm not as hip as I used to be on beer, but that phase passed at least 5 years ago. 

If you've never had a Steam Beer while sitting on the pier in San Francisco you don't know what you're missing.


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## orangehero (Oct 20, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> There's a reason why the group CAMRA exists in the UK. 'Real' Ale FTW



The irony is that CAMRA owes a lot to the beer renaissance in the USA, despite the fact that USA macrolagers took over in the first place.


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## parbaked (Oct 20, 2020)

orangehero said:


> If you've never had a Steam Beer while sitting on the pier in San Francisco you don't know what you're missing.



First house I owned in SF was in Potrero Hill above Anchor Steam. I could smell the hops in the morning when I walked the pooch.

Beer is nuts in the Bay Area. Most people I know don't even buy beer at a liquor store anymore.
They just go to their favorite craft brewery and pick up cans or growlers (64 oz jugs) of their favorite brews. 

These breweries all make a wide range of beers from lagers to ales to IPA and Belgiums. They all offer flights so folk can taste a few and find what they like. They are all pretty passionate about what they do and the ingredients they use.

One interesting thing is that these breweries are not limited by restaurant of bar regulations as long as they only serve the booze they make. As such they can let in kids and dogs and food trucks etc. They've become the gathering place for people who want to get together and can't be bothered to entertain at home. Our favorite Taiwanese noodle & dumpling pop-up is housed in a brewery.


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 20, 2020)

orangehero said:


> The irony is that CAMRA owes a lot to the beer renaissance in the USA, despite the fact that USA macrolagers took over in the first place.


Not sure about that. I would say Fosters *pi$$* water is more influential. CAMRA is almost 50 years old afterall. How many US micro breweries were up and running back then, let alone getting noticed outside the country.


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## orangehero (Oct 20, 2020)

Corradobrit1 said:


> Not sure about that. I would say Fosters *pi$$* water is more influential. CAMRA is almost 50 years old afterall. How many US micro breweries were up and running back then, let alone getting noticed outside the country.



It's true a lot of overlap. I don't know what CAMRA was doing 50 years ago so I can't comment on that. I'm saying no one would care without the renewed passion and interest sparked by US brewing culture both as consumers and producers.

Anyone else love The Beer Hunter show with Michael Jackson? I wish they would re-release it.


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## Noodle Soup (Oct 23, 2020)

alterwisser said:


> IPA is a European beer, invented by the Brits.
> 
> It’s a real beer, and it’s really good. Of course there a funky versions with Grapefruit and sh**, but a regular IPA only uses the basic beer ingredients just like the other “perfected” beers


But it tastes nothing like the over hopped B.S. they call IPA in the US. Each new brand tries to beat the last by adding even more hops. I would certainly go with the German, Austrian, and Cz lagers and dunkels before any of the US IPA's.


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## Corradobrit1 (Oct 23, 2020)

Noodle Soup said:


> Each new brand tries to beat the last by adding even more hops.


Like the US automotive industry HP wars. They seem to forget its the torque numbers that really matter in the real world.


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## nwshull (Oct 23, 2020)

As a note American IPA is normally considered a different style than the British one at this point. Its based on the british IPAs which was in many ways a obsolete style used for preservation of the ale on a long journey to India. However, its most certainly not the same, the name was simply used because it was available due to lack of use. By contrast most American IPAs, especially the West Coast variants, are meant to be drunk soon after their release. From the original US IPAs, there are now many different styles with quite wide variants- session, New England style, East Coast, West Coast, Double IPA, ridiculous triple IPA, fusion IPAs with other styles.


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## AT5760 (Oct 23, 2020)

Is it your impression that all American craft beers are hop bombs? I'm not sure that was true a decade ago, and it is certainly not true now. The New England-style hazy IPAs are much less hop forward. Many breweries are looking more to Belgian-style beers, exploring sours, and saisons. 
Also, I'm not sure that the HP wars analogy flies. If anything, I'd compare it to a preference over modern day Ferraris vs 1960s E-Types. Both have a lot to offer, but they are very different cars.


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## alterwisser (Oct 23, 2020)

Noodle Soup said:


> But it tastes nothing like the over hopped B.S. they call IPA in the US. Each new brand tries to beat the last by adding even more hops. I would certainly go with the German, Austrian, and Cz lagers and dunkels before any of the US IPA's.



there are thousands of IPA’s in the US. Some are indeed just out to outdo others with hoppiness.

Others are outstanding and better than most or any British IPA...

But it’s a taste/preference thing. Difficult to argue of course. For me it’s a situational thing: if I’m at a football game I want something “easy”, if I’m at a beach I want an ice cold lager, I’d never down an IPA.

To me IPA is a Fall beer.

have you tried a freshly brewed New England style IPA?


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## Noodle Soup (Oct 23, 2020)

AT5760 said:


> Is it your impression that all American craft beers are hop bombs? I'm not sure that was true a decade ago, and it is certainly not true now. The New England-style hazy IPAs are much less hop forward. Many breweries are looking more to Belgian-style beers, exploring sours, and saisons.
> Also, I'm not sure that the HP wars analogy flies. If anything, I'd compare it to a preference over modern day Ferraris vs 1960s E-Types. Both have a lot to offer, but they are very different cars.


Well, I live in the NW in a state that actually grows a lot of those hops. Go down the isle of my local grocery store and you find there is practically nothing (not counting Bud, Coors etc) but local IPA's. Why one brewery needs to produce 3 or 4 different IPA's is beyound me. And yes I like some of the Belgian styles that starting to come out. A few even taste like Belgian ales! Dick's Crystal Ale is very good. But try to find a really good American Dunkel outside of a beer specialty store. None in my area for sure. I usually go with one of the Mexican brews when I want that.
There maybe some great New England style IPA but it doesn't reach here, probably like most of ours don't go back there.


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## orangehero (Oct 23, 2020)

IPA's are at the forefront of style development, in part because there are intensive projects to breed new varieties of hops that are exciting with new flavors and aromas not seen before. There's also a renewed focus on local produce and freshness of IPA plays a massive role in the experience. There's only so much you can do with malt and yeast. Additionally, from a business and production perspective, IPA's are a relatively easy style for a small, perhaps less technically capable and experienced local brewery can make, as the hops will cover a lot of otherwise apparent process flaws.


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## Noodle Soup (Oct 23, 2020)

orangehero said:


> IPA's are at the forefront of style development, in part because there are intensive projects to breed new varieties of hops that are exciting with new flavors and aromas not seen before. There's also a renewed focus on local produce and freshness of IPA plays a massive role in the experience. There's only so much you can do with malt and yeast. Additionally, from a business and production perspective, IPA's are a relatively easy style for a small, perhaps less technically capable and experienced local brewery can make, as the hops will cover a lot of otherwise apparent process flaws.


Exactly, as a long time home brewer, extra hops can cover a lot of flaws in a brew. Of course, top fermenting ales don't require the cold temperature aging bottom fermenting lagers do, making them more cost effective for the "micro brewers." I used to only brew lagers in the winter when I could age them in the unheated barn.


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