# To do or not to do?



## MadMel

Hi guys, I've been wondering about taking up a degree on International Restaurant Management at Le Cordon Bleu.

I have a culinary cert by a private school in Singapore, and about a years worth of working experience. Can't make up my mind to take the degree or continue working as the current market is kinda crappy pay wise.. Also would like some overseas exposure.

Give me your $0.02 worth. All opinions are appreciated


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## bieniek

I hear you, but think of instead going to any kind of school go to big city, get a job as a waiter, and consider this as your starting point. 
Respect is gained through service, not through certificates. And theres nothing better then "field experience".


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## shankster

Agreed. Why not travel and stage at some world class restaurants? If you can afford Le Cordon Blue,you can afford a life/working experience like that..


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## MadMel

Hmm. Any suggestions on where to start? And anything about the working laws and visas needed? I'm from Singapore, 24 years old and have to report back to my country for 2 weeks every year for army reservist training .
basically the idea of getting a degree is due to pressure from my parents lol. They are pretty unhappy with my career choice...


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## bieniek

I dont know how it works for States or Australia, but you can find good quality establishment in New Zeland, In England actually some of the best places are hidden in the countryside. Depends also what level do you see yourself at? 
You dont have to go to 3 star restaurant to get well trained. But you need a lot of luck to get to a place where your boss will perform well as a mentor.


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## shankster

Most restaurants accept stages/interns,just pick the ones you would love to work at,go to their website and beg them to take you on and keep pestering them.That's the easy way.The other more difficult way is to start traveling and then start knocking on as many doors as you can until they relent and take you on.That's one thing I kinda regret not doing(staging).Every country will have different visa requirements so you should check it out.Don't be pressured by your parents if this is something you really love and want to do.In the end it's your life not theirs.

Good luck


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## MadMel

Hmm thanks. I may try doing this if I can get the $$ lol. The finances to get a degree are sponsored but I don't really think they'd wanna sponsor me doing stages lol. I'll sound it out neways  thanks.



> But you need a lot of luck to get to a place where your boss will perform well as a mentor.


That's kinda the main problem lol.

Any further opinions are appreciated.


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## Eamon Burke

I say work work work!

They will pay YOU for doing it, you get a resume, connections, real experience, and a chance to see if you really like it.

Sorry to all of those who love the CIA, or went there and now are hundred-thousand-aires, but I think it is a massive waste of time. I know one person that needs to go, and that is because she is a perfect candidate--she's a student by nature, eager to please, would benefit greatly from knowing the names of things in French(so she can accurately convey what she wants) and prefers to be told a "right way" to do things.


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## MadMel

johndoughy said:


> I say work work work!
> 
> They will pay YOU for doing it, you get a resume, connections, real experience, and a chance to see if you really like it.



I've been in and out of this industry(cos I gotta serve in the Army) and I do like it  Working in an Italian restaurant for about 6 months now.



johndoughy said:


> I know one person that needs to go, and that is because she is a perfect candidate--she's a student by nature, eager to please, would benefit greatly from knowing the names of things in French(so she can accurately convey what she wants) and prefers to be told a "right way" to do things.


 
That kinda sounds like me, tho I'm a he. Thanks for the suggestion


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## dizzle

I am gonna have to agree with *johndoughy* I got into the industry by working my butt off without going to school because i would rather learn to get paid than pay to learn. I know where you are coming from because i'm asian and i know how asian parents put a big emphasis on education and going into the restaurant industry probably isn't their dream for you. At the end of the day, a chef usually doesn't care about your degrees, they hire you based on your attitude, work ethic, and experience. If you really love cooking and want to pursue this as a career then you have to say F the haters because as long as you are learning and happy, thats all that matters.


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## bob

I don't think it makes financial sense to go to culinary school. There's a thread about it here http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?488-culinary-schools-under-fire.

From the cordon bleu site, assuming you want to study overseas (in Australia) the course you're interested in costs AUD65,700. Lets assume you will need AUD1500 for living expenses while you study. Since this is a 3 year course that adds up to AUD39,000. That puts your total at AUD104,700.

You would need to earn AUD1745 more than your current salary for 5 years to break even on the cost. And this number hasn't factored in the opportunity cost of the cordon bleu course, which is whatever you're currently earning + possible promotions and raises during those 3 years you would be studying. 

Honestly, 104,700 is way too much for going to school unless you're getting an ironclad guarantee of making big bucks when you graduate. Show your parents the figures, and they might change their minds.


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## MadMel

I kinda did the number crunching as well. Figure I came up with was 100,000~115,000 SGD as the industry placement and part-time jobs will get me set up for the living costs. 
I told them as much regarding the opportunity cost as well but you know how parents can be. They all think that we can't think for ourselves and we can't hold intelligent, fact based conversations. I've just given up.. If they wanna spend that kind of money on me, den so be it. I'll go through that and let them see what comes of a piece of paper in a skill based job.


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## echerub

Make the most of it, though. Even if culinary school isn't your preferred choice, if you're spending your time there (and your parents' money), make the most of it and get as much out of it as you can.


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## MadMel

echerub said:


> Make the most of it, though. Even if culinary school isn't your preferred choice, if you're spending your time there (and your parents' money), make the most of it and get as much out of it as you can.


 
Yeah that's all i can do right now. Make sure I end up at least in the top 5~10 percent of the cohort. that would at least get me a little plus in an interview.


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## bob

If they'r dead set on sending you, its not so bad. I'm sure you will learn some valuable stuff and hopefully get some good job placements. Btw if you'r working overseas you can defer reservist, just fyi.


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## echerub

Make your goal to learn everything you can. Develop your skills, knowledge, and ability as much as you can. Go beyond the minimum you need to learn or practice. Don't worry about numerical grading - that ought to be a by-product of everything else.


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## Eamon Burke

Wait wait wait...your parents are paying for it?!

Shoot, I'd have gotten a degree in acorn farming if my parents gave me a full ride!


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## Tristan

johndoughy said:


> Wait wait wait...your parents are paying for it?!
> 
> Shoot, I'd have gotten a degree in acorn farming if my parents gave me a full ride!


 
Yeah well at the end of it, Asian parents are slightly different. The fact that they paid for your degree is an added pressure to perform. Basically the common mindset is: "We paid $X for you, and you still screwed up?? Look at your second cousin, got a scholarship, parents didn't pay anything and she's still doing better than you. Married a good guy too!..."

Good luck telling them that you didn't want them to pay for your education to begin with.

I got a fully paid up scholarship to the Missisipi University for Women 12 years ago (yes it exists, yes it is about 15% men, 85% women. Yes, I know.), my folks thought better of it, and thrashed my application documents and the scholarship. I ended up staying in Singapore to study. Could have been an Ivy League grad by now but no....

And if you're overseas for any reason, you can defer your reservist


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## MadMel

Tristan said:


> Yeah well at the end of it, Asian parents are slightly different. The fact that they paid for your degree is an added pressure to perform. Basically the common mindset is: "We paid $X for you, and you still screwed up?? Look at your second cousin, got a scholarship, parents didn't pay anything and she's still doing better than you. Married a good guy too!..."
> 
> Good luck telling them that you didn't want them to pay for your education to begin with.
> 
> I got a fully paid up scholarship to the Missisipi University for Women 12 years ago (yes it exists, yes it is about 15% men, 85% women. Yes, I know.), my folks thought better of it, and thrashed my application documents and the scholarship. I ended up staying in Singapore to study. Could have been an Ivy League grad by now but no....
> 
> And if you're overseas for any reason, you can defer your reservist


 
This sums it up nicely.


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## bob

Damn tristan, that's a tragic story.


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