# Beginner whetstone recommendation



## mylo (May 4, 2016)

Hello everybody. So, I'm a beginner in the sharpening, I never did it. I'm looking for the products and the stone for starting to sharpening, the knife to sharp is a Tojiro shirogami gyuto 240mm. So can someone recommend me which stones I have to buy?

I've read and watched a lot about japanese knives, I understood something but I'm not sure about the right whetstone to use. 1000/3000? 1000/4000? 500/1000/4000? I don't know. And for the maintenance of the stone? What set of products? Some oil, some other stone to repair the whetstone, some support?

And the stone can be used whit all type of knife (inox, carbon steel...) or every stone with a specific type of steel?

Sorry, but I'm a bit confused!
Thank you in advance.


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## ooeei (May 4, 2016)

mylo said:


> Hello everybody. So, I'm a beginner in the sharpening, I never did it. I'm looking for the products and the stone for starting to sharpening, the knife to sharp is a Tojiro shirogami gyuto 240mm. So can someone recommend me which stones I have to buy?
> 
> I've read and watched a lot about japanese knives, I understood something but I'm not sure about the right whetstone to use. 1000/3000? 1000/4000? 500/1000/4000? I don't know. And for the maintenance of the stone? What set of products? Some oil, some other stone to repair the whetstone, some support?
> 
> ...



100-500 grit: Coarse stone - Used for fast metal removal. This includes thinning, repairing chips, and reprofiling. Not usually necessary if you take good care of your knives except for an occasional thinning (which you won't need to do for awhile).

600-2000 grit: Medium Stone - Used for setting a bevel and getting a reasonably sharp edge. Some people stop with this stone, depends on your goals and the particular stone.

3000+: Polishing/Finishing Stone - Used for refining the edge further than the medium. Not strictly necessary most of the time, but many do it for increased edge retention, easier push cutting, or just plain looks. Also useful in reducing burrs left by medium stone.

I've been using a 1000/6000 Imanishi Combo stone (water stone) on my stainless gyuto for 3+ years. I just recently bought a 320 grit stone to thin out the knife, but the 1000/6000 was plenty for that amount of time, and s<script id="gpt-impl-0.891836485317649" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_85.js"></script>hould last many more years. A regular old water stone should sharpen most types of steels, but some may take longer than others or feel less pleasant. If you're into really high end woodworking tools or pocket knives with exotic metals certain stones will be beneficial. 

For your knife I'd say go with a ~1000 stone and ~5000 stone and work with them for awhile. A cheap diamond plate to flatten them would also be useful. Decide whether to add to or upgrade them down the line. King is the go to value brand.

edit: Japanese Knife Imports has some very good tutorials on youtube. I recommend watching those as well.


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## Matus (May 4, 2016)

Welcome mylo - may I ask what is your budget? My personal opinion is that it makes little sense to buy beginner stones (contrary to knives) and the swap them for 'pro' stones later. Stones last a long time and do not suffer because used by beginner sharpener. So buying good stones (what means usually more expensive) makes more sense if your budget allows.


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## Steampunk (May 4, 2016)

For your situation, I would start with the following...

120-220 grit Extra-Coarse Diamond Plate (Mostly for stone flattening) - Brand: DMT, iWood, or Atoma. 

300-400 grit stone (For Repairs & Thinning) - My recommendation for carbon? Shapton Pro 320. For stainless: your guess is as good as mine. Tried a number, still haven't found a coarse stone I really like on SS. For soft western stainless, I'd pick a coarse diamond plate over a coarse stone any day of the week. 

800-2000 grit stone (For setting up a usable edge bevel & refining above.) - Naniwa Pro/Chosera 800 is one of my top picks for both carbon & SS if you need a harder, yet still versatile stone. If your control is good enough to utilize a softer stone (It isn't in the beginning), or you don't need that level of versatility, there are a lot more options. For Shirogami alone, I really like how my Gesshin 2000 responds. 

3000-6000 grit stone (For finishing your edge) - This is where the options really start to expand. My favorite edge finish for my Masakage Yuki (Which is also Shirogami #2), is my Japanese Natural Stones Synthetic Red Aoto. Great toothiness, but still enough sharp enough to easily shave arm hair, and the stone has a lovely creamy smooth feel when sharpening. It also leaves a nice finish when you start getting into thinning that wide bevel knife of yours. However, it's very soft, and easy to gouge. Maxim also does a harder, speckled version of that stone that won't gouge so easily, but I haven't tried it yet. Shirogami is more sensitive to food acids than Aogami, or stainless, so I find responds superbly to the type of edge a mixed-grit stone (Where the abrasives are not all the same size) creates, as this helps to increase its perceived edge retention... However, there are lots of good finishing stones; which you pick is a little less crucial than with your lower grit stones in my opinion, and what you end up liking mostly has to do with the type of edge feel, aesthetic finish, or feel the stone has that you prefer. This is a very individual preference, which is why sharpeners tend to collect more finishing stones than anything else once their core lower-grit set is built, as they are always chasing that perfect result for them on a particular knife. 

Strop - To help you pull the burr, you will want a hard felt, denim, or linen strop mounted on a hard backing material. You can even make this yourself. You can also use a pasted strop, which will further refine the edge, and use a piece of hard balsa (Or even another type of wood if you're feeling experimental) or mounted leather smeared with some water based diamond paste. If you're finishing with a 6K stone, I would use a 1-micron paste, if you're finishing with a 3K stone I would use a 2-3 micron paste. 

As always, it benefits to buy the best gear that you can afford. The quality difference is typically very beneficial. 

As for other accessories, most of these you can make yourself, although there are commercial versions. You'll need a stand for your stones (For me, it's a piece of wood about 2" tall, 4" wide, and 12" long covered with a piece of rubber shelf liner sitting on a tea towel.), and an angle guide to help you learn what angle to hold your knife at (I used a plastic angle gauge; you can cut some pieces of wood or even cardboard at various angles... 12-13 degrees, 15 degrees, 20-degrees, and 30-40 degrees are the most common angles you will need.). Also, a little bowl or a spray bottle full of water. A fat-tipped sharpie marker is also a useful tool. The only item that you'll really benefit from that you cannot make is a jeweler's loupe or a field scope; this is an inexpensive item, which helps you to inspect your edges under high magnification to check your progress and see if you have any edge defects. I personally find something in the 30-60x range most useful, although in time you might want something finer still. Get one with a little LED light built-in. I payed about $15 for mine. Best sharpening purchase I've ever made. You can also use some Jojoba or Camellia oil to protect your carbon knives from corrosion if you plan on storing them for a time after sharpening without using them; this will just protect them from corrosion. 

The rest is just practice... Watch Jon Broida's videos on sharpening from Japanese Knife Imports, and also Maxim Envoldson's videos at Japanese Natural Stones on YouTube. They will teach you good technique. As you work, you will want to test your edge, and learn some basic edge tests to gauge your progress. For me, the three most important are these... (A) feeling for a burr by placing your fingers on the side of the knife and drawing them over the edge (Not into it, but away from it so that you don't cut yourself!) to feel if it catches, (B) the paper towel test (Cutting into a rolled up paper towel... If you don't have a good edge, it will hang up in places. If you have a good, toothy edge, it will slice right through without issue.), and (C) the arm/leg hair shaving test (Again, this is a sharpness test, which tells you whether or not you have a good, burr-free push-cutting edge.). 

To answer your questions about whether stones can be used with all knife types... As you can see above from my suggestions, certain stones do respond best to certain steels, and also certain users. This simply takes trial and error to find out. Technically, in most cases, most stones can be used on most steels just fine, but every knife has a stone or series of stones that it just really sings with. The Shapton 320 Pro i suggested for a coarse carbon stone is a great, if somewhat extreme, example... Works great on carbon steel, but on anything with chromium in the alloy it glazes very quickly and cuts slower than some 1-2K stones! Not all stones are this picky; the Naniwa Pro 800, for instance, but even then it just seems to be a little happier on some steels than others. I find that this pickiness is most crucial on your lower grit stones, because you're relying on them to cut quickly and establish a good edge bevel, so if they don't mesh well with your steel it's frustrating and time consuming. At 800-2K, you should have a usable edge that once de-burred on the stone with good technique (And maybe with a textile strop) can shave hair. Beyond that, it's just about refining the good edge that you have established, which is less crucial than getting it to this point in the first place. 

Hopefully this helps, and if you have any more questions, please feel free to ask. 

- Steampunk


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## daveb (May 4, 2016)

Well said above. Especially worthy of repeat is that you as a beginner do not need stones with training wheels, or that are otherwise different than I do as an "average" sharpener or some of the folks that are really good at it. 

A decision to make early in your acquisition process is to go with "soaker" stones or "spash and go". They will both work well but it makes little sense to mix them in your stone progression. Other qualities of different stones are even more subjective than different knives. 

Almost universally liked here are the soakers (.4, 2 and 6K) from Japanese Knife Imports and the splash and go (.3, 1 and 6K) from Japanese Natural Stones. The Bestor 500, 1.2K and Suehiro 5K is a well liked set by many. For me I don't like the 500 a lot, but do like the 1.2 and 5K, esp on German stainless. King stones are readily available and while many like them I do not. I've no experience with Chosera, Nanwa, Sharpton but many good things are said about them. 
Note that the differences in these stones are more likely measured in perceived nuance rather than in any absolute measures. Though it's not uncommon for users to feel that their "best" is not at all subjective and should be everyones "best".

As far as recommendations go, my suggestion is that if you're in the States, hit up Jon at JKI. If you're in Europe get with Maxim at JNS. Down under contact James at Knives and Stones.

Good luck in your search.


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## Mute-on (May 4, 2016)

What Dave said. 

I should also add that these are water stones. You mentioned oil, but that is not appropriate for Japanese whetstones. It will ruin them. Only wet/soak with H2O :thumbsup:


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## psfred (May 4, 2016)

If you are on a limited budget, the best set is a Bester 1000 or 12000 and a Suehiro Rika 5000. You can flatten them with sandpaper or drywall sanding screen, both quite cheap anywhere. This set will do a fine job of keeping just about any knife in good condition.

There is an amazing variety of stones out there, as I'm sure you have discovered, but the Bester/Suehiro will work fine for just about anything. I personally got the Bester 1200 for woodworking tools, where maintaining flatness is critical, but it works great for knives too. Good for beginners because it wears very slowly while cutting well, unlike the King stones which generally dish very quickly and are a huge pain to use on woodworking tools, as I found out the hard way.

If money is really tight, one of the combination stones from any of the major manufacturers will do the same job. They have the same abrasives and composition as the separate stones, being just a thin version glued together. Won't last as long, and are a bit of a hassle, but usually much less than the two separate stones. 

For general use, as noted, you need something in the middle grit range (800 to 2000 depending on the exact stone) for sharpening and something finer for polishing, 5000 or 6000 is the usual range, but 3000 grit is fine for some knives.

I've been slowly collecting sharpening stones for twenty years now, and haven't really even tried some of them out much yet, so be careful -- you can end up spending way too much!

My personal sharpening "system" is the Bester 1200, followed by a synthetic aoto at 2000-3000 grit, then either a Arashiyama 6000 grit or my trusty King 6000 that has served me very well for almost 20 years. Some knives will get a pass over a Kitayama (carbon steel or VG-10), but for softer stainless I usually stop with the aoto, they seem to have more bite and stay sharp longer. Hard steel comes off the aoto "blunt" -- won't cut tomatoes for instance -- but higher grit stones result in very sharp edges. In finish all of them by stropping on a piece of pine loaded with chromium oxide paste. Seems to shine them up a bit and removes any burr, especially on the VG-10.

Peter


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## _PixelNinja (May 5, 2016)

Just my 2¢  if you are starting out, stick with a medium grit stone for the time being and learn basic technique from there. If you can't hold an angle, manage pressure, don't know the gestures etc., it makes little sense to move on to other stones where you will be repeating the same mistakes.


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## mylo (May 6, 2016)

Thank you all guys. For a beginner (myself), all these informations are very important.

Many many thanks!!l


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## Johnny.B.Good (May 6, 2016)

mylo said:


> Thank you all guys. For a beginner (myself), all these informations are very important.
> 
> Many many thanks!!l



Let us know what you decide on!


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