# Nitrites vs nitrates in meat preservation



## PierreRodrigue (Oct 9, 2014)

Hey guys, mostly because I have too much time on my hands (I wish!) but I am planning on making some bacon, back bacon, jerky, Montreal smoked meat, etc, and am trying to understand the differences between Prague #1 and #2. One is used for foods to be cooked, the other for foods having a long cold cure (some sausages for example)

Both have 6.25% sodium nitrite, the #2 has .64% sodium nitrate. I assume the long cure ingredient. This last ingredient converts to nitrites over time. 

So if both have the same initial ingredient, essentially protecting the meat in the short term, killing or preventing the nasties from surviving and causing us harm, then the nitrate slowly releases over time, assisting in protecting and drying, my question I guess, is how the transformation happens, is there a health risk for example, if the meat using Prague #2 were to be consumed in the short term like the first week into the process. 

Is the conversion from nitrate to nitrite complete, what are the risks in consuming nitrates over nitrites.

Any guidance appreciated.


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## IndoorOutdoorCook (Oct 9, 2014)

I've only used prague #1 myself for hot smoked items like bacon, chorizo, kielbasa. My go to for this is 5 lbs meat, 12 g prague #1, 50g normal salt.

The lethal dose of sodium nitrite is 71 mg/kg. No idea what illnesses lead up to the dead part. You'd have to use so much the prague #2 to get close to that. I think you're safe if you follow the instructions.

Usually people are more concerned about long term effects e.g. stomach cancer. I read a review on that topic last year when I started my curing adventures. Nitrates and nitrite occur naturally in vegetables. When you see nitrate/nitrite free bacon at the market, they added celery powder or salt. Guess what that contains? The concern with these chemicals is when they form a specific carcinogenic type of nitrosamine. Typically the carcinogenic nitrosamine formation occurs under acidic conditions and under high heat (charring your cured meat). If you keep your temperatures under control when you're smoking (I go about 250F) you should be fine. When I crisp my bacon, I do it on a sheet in the oven at 350 and take it out before it gets burned. With good homemade stuff, I like it a little bit chewy anyway.

Really, for hot smoked stuff if you keep it in the fridge or freezer after, it's not as important. The long term cure with prague #2 like salumi is where botulism becomes a real concern. I don't have a temperature/humidity controlled environment to even try that.


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## Framingchisel (Oct 9, 2014)

See
http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/nchfp/lit_rev/cure_smoke_toc.html
and enjoy the results


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## cheflarge (Oct 9, 2014)

Pierre,

You are correct in the difference of the two cures & purpose. If ever there is a worry, simply cook the product of concern to an internal temperature of 160 degrees. To the best of my knowledge, Cure #2 has pretty much been for the home enthusiast, while professionals have always used starter culture, celery powder, etc. For more detailed explanations read "Charcutierie" by Brian Polcyn or go to www.butcher-packer.com hope this helps.

Al


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## brainsausage (Oct 9, 2014)

Nitrate interacts with bacteria, and turns into nitrite, which in turn becomes nitric oxide. The only potential health risks involved concerning nitric oxide, is that it's theorized that it becomes carcinogenic when exposed to high temps(moreso than most burnt items), which can be mitigated through the use of a variety of other additives. As stated above high doses of nitrates can be lethal, but for a basic cure you only need .25% by weight to get the desired safety/flavor/color results. there's more naturally occuring nitrates in a pound of spinach than 20 pounds of properly cured meat. For bacon, and any short term cures (2-3 weeks or less) I'd go this route: http://www.sausagemaker.com/11200instacureand153no15lbs.aspx 

Instacure is the standard in the states. I've used this product for years successfully in a pro environment. 6.25% Nitrite, on a sodium chloride delivery. A five pound tub should last you quite a long time, unless you're doing a ridiculous amount of brining, or curing loooots of small cuts. For long term cures you'll want the Instacure #2 http://www.sausagemaker.com/11400instacureand153no25lbs.aspx 

Let me know if you want any recipes Pierre (or anyone else for that matter).

EDIT: I missed one of the posts above, so excuse me for repeating some of the same info...


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## Mrmnms (Oct 9, 2014)

I alway thought that Prague 2 (with nitrates)was strictly for long dry curing. I you have any intention of consuming your cured stuff early, I would stick with Prague 1. Thanks to input from guys like Mucho and Chef Large, my nitrate cures are safely buried way in the back of my pantry since most of my stuff is brined/cured and smoked within 5 to 10 days.


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## cheflarge (Oct 10, 2014)

You are correct on the #2 Mrmnms. I, personally, have never used #2. Always used freeze dried culture for long curing. Although the Sausage Makers book is a good reference it is extremely outdated. In my opinion, Charcutierie is a much more up to date reference. Just my two cents.


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## brainsausage (Oct 10, 2014)

cheflarge said:


> You are correct on the #2 Mrmnms. I, personally, have never used #2. Always used freeze dried culture for long curing. Although the Sausage Makers book is a good reference it is extremely outdated. In my opinion, Charcutierie is a much more up to date reference. Just my two cents.



My only issue with Ruhlman and Polcyk's first book, is that none of the recipes are ratio based. Haven't checked out the new book yet. And yes, the Prague 2 is for longer dry cures. Freeze dried cultures help aid in safety regarding dry cured sausages, but only nitrates effectively kill botulism, as well as the above stated color retention, and 'cure' flavor.


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## cheflarge (Oct 10, 2014)

Agreed, had more questions about ratios of cure, culture, etc. when the first book came out. Note: if using cultures the pack might say enough to innoculate 500 pounds of meat. Question: how much do I use for 25 pounds of meat? Being that it would be virtually impossible to scale out such a minute amount you could use the whole pack with out concern. Cultures only work while they have available food (sugar). Once the food has been depleted, they simply die off. Hope this helps.

Al


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## brainsausage (Oct 10, 2014)

cheflarge said:


> Agreed, had more questions about ratios of cure, culture, etc. when the first book came out. Note: if using cultures the pack might say enough to innoculate 500 pounds of meat. Question: how much do I use for 25 pounds of meat? Being that it would be virtually impossible to scale out such a minute amount you could use the whole pack with out concern. Cultures only work while they have available food (sugar). Once the food has been depleted, they simply die off. Hope this helps.
> 
> Al



Yup, s'why I use dextrose for dry cured sausage. lets you pack a little more sugar in without changing the flavor too much. It's also a simple sugar so it gives you a little extra insurance that the bacteria are feeding immediately and propagating. Sugar also helps lower the PH, which is very important for helping kill off the unsavory microbes. This is a good list to adhere to for safety regarding dry cured sausages:

1. Fresh product
2. Processing the product at the lowest temp possible. Meat is by and large sterile on the interior, and when you grind it you expose faaaar more surface area to potential microbial growth. 
3. Salt/nitrates. Lots of potentially hazardous microbes abhor salt, and Nitrates are a death knell for botulism. There's also quite a few anti-microbial properties in lots of herbs and seasonings.
4. Lactic acid producing bacteria/lowering the PH. All kinds of microbes can't survive in a lactic acid/low PH rich environment. Starter cultures, as well as sugar aid in this. A side effect of this is a nice sourly flavor that you get with traditional European style dry cured sausage.
5. Drying. If you reduce the water content(also referred to as available water, or AW), no microbes can flourish. Any microbes that are harmful to us require water to live. This is one of the trickier aspects of the process as you need a fairly precise humidity range to negate the exterior of the sausage from drying too fast(and causing interior rot), or the product not drying in the first place.


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## larrybard (Oct 11, 2014)

Didn't realize that sodium nitrite could be so potentially injurious, at least if misused (wrong concentrations, etc.). This week have been brining brisket, half ultimately for corned beef and the other half pastrami. Fortunately have been following good advice (e.g., on amazingribs.com and Mike -- thanks much, Mike!) and basically using pickling spices and Prague #1. So feel relatively comfortable with the process. Interesting how most recipes aren't critical as far as proportions (maybe baking is a general exception), or at least even significant deviations won't be dangerous -- nothing more than a potential tummy ache, unless it's something like seriously undercooked meat or fowl. But then there are nitrites. Make me wonder what other pitfalls there are with certain potentially carcinogenic or otherwise dangerous ingredients that I'm not aware of.


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