# Touching Up Knives



## stringer (Aug 14, 2021)

I thought I would share the touchup routine I've been using the last several months to maintain my work knives. Please share your favorite ways to maintain sharpness between full sharpening sessions.

American Mutt Coarse Side (the stone is the same all the way through, a mixture of different abrasive materials. But I hit one side with coarse SIC every once in awhile and I let the other side get burnished).

American Mutt Fine Side

Deburr on coticule

Further deburr on kitchen rag.


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## ModRQC (Aug 14, 2021)

Interestingly enough, I only have a single thought as I watch this: what's the differentiating line between touching up and sharpening in your mind? Not trying to be smart, just curious.


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## stringer (Aug 14, 2021)

ModRQC said:


> Interestingly enough, I only have a single thought as I watch this: what's the differentiating line between touching up and sharpening in your mind? Not trying to be smart, just curious.


If I was sharpening I would do a full progression. Set up a sharpening station. Thin behind the edge. Usually happens once or twice a month for work knives. Once a year or so for home knives. I usually only do it nowadays if there's significant damage. Usually I can just get by with the coticule. Every few weeks I do the mutt too.


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## ModRQC (Aug 14, 2021)

I couldn't do what you do, but fully agree to a touching up being any mean you have of reviving the edge without taking out the whole gear or working through all the steps you usually do when cutting a brand new edge.

It's just that sometimes I get the feeling folks don't accept that a "touch up" is just that if a burr was fully raised, or IDK. Gets uneasy to differentiate both depending on who says what.

I liked your video very much. Thanks for sharing.


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## kpham12 (Aug 14, 2021)

I love the deburring on a kitchen rag. I’ve touched up other peoples knives in the kitchen after they do a bunch of prep work and the where I worked, they’re usually wearing aprons so I’ll have them stand still and I’ll stand a couple feet away and hold the apron so it’s stretched out and I’ll strop the knife on it after sharpening. They would look at me like I was crazy till they used the knife and it was nice and sharp.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Aug 14, 2021)

That is a sexy, thin bevel. 

Your technique is very Cliff Stamp-esque. Benjamin of Baryonyx Knives and Stones puts out some good products for sure.

I do regular maintenance on a leather strop with the occasional strip of cardboard. Then when feels necessary, I'll do some light stropping on a 2k or 4k (knife depending) and that combined gets me a long ways.


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## HumbleHomeCook (Aug 14, 2021)

Also, I was really bummed to not see the fruit and veggie knives.


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## EricEricEric (Aug 14, 2021)

Strop with diamond is fast and easy, or a finishing stone is great

Really though, the bevel rarely needs any attention, rather just refreshing the microbevel is necessary

We just love steel on stones too much


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## Benuser (Aug 14, 2021)

Edge leading stropping and a few strokes along the edge to finish with, like when deburring. Sometimes on a 8k Junpaku but more often on a small piece of Belgian Blue I keep in the kitchen for that purpose. If I don't get immediately the right feeling I don't insist but go one step coarser, but not below a NP2k. Then it's time for a full sharpening, starting coarse behind the edge, etc. 
I use saliva with the Belgian Blue. When it gets glossy it sees an Atoma 140.


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## ModRQC (Aug 14, 2021)

Benuser said:


> Edge leading stropping and a few strokes along the edge to finish with, like when deburring. Sometimes on a 8k Junpaku but more often on a small piece of Belgian Blue I keep in the kitchen for that purpose. If I don't get immediately the right feeling I don't insist but go one step coarser, but not below a NP2k. Then it's time for a full sharpening, starting coarse behind the edge, etc.
> I use saliva with the Belgian Blue. When it gets glossy it sees an Atoma 140.



Does it scream when it sees it?


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## Benuser (Aug 14, 2021)

ModRQC said:


> Does it scream when it sees it?


The Belgians have seen worse.


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## ModRQC (Aug 14, 2021)

Benuser said:


> The Belgians have seen worse.



And while they might have blues once in a while they’re never entirely broken.


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## Benuser (Aug 14, 2021)

ModRQC said:


> And while they might have blues once in a while they’re never entirely broken.


True. 
Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae, according to Julius Caesar.


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## adam92 (Aug 14, 2021)

I basically touch up my knife everynight after work to maintain razor sharp. yanagiba stropping with 8k, gyuto for vege sp2k/sg4k, gyuto for raw chicken & meat 1k, sujihiki for silver skin sg1k or sp2k. 

Maybe edge leading for 15 time. Each knife less than 2/3 minutes.


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## Jovidah (Aug 15, 2021)

Nice stone holder.  With my fine motor skills I'm pretty sure I'd be making finger-charcutterie in no-time like that!


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## Garm (Aug 15, 2021)

Jovidah said:


> Nice stone holder.  With my fine motor skills I'm pretty sure I'd be making finger-charcutterie in no-time like that!


Me too. That coticule honing made me nervous as hell. I would have accidentally raised my thumb above the stone surface or something and caused a fine mess.


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## Michi (Aug 15, 2021)

A few swipes on a 3000 stone has been working well for me. It's been months since I did a progression.


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## Bear (Aug 15, 2021)

Stroped(resurfaced this morning) a couple times then hit with translucent till it loses its bite(too polished).


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 15, 2021)

Do honing rods count? If so, they are my routine.


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## Jovidah (Aug 15, 2021)

I guess it counts if you touch your rod routinely...


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## branwell (Aug 15, 2021)

Michi said:


> A few swipes on a 3000 stone has been working well for me. It's been months since I did a progression.



I'm with you there. My main knives haven't seen anything lower than a 3K stone for months. Few swipes on a 3K or 4K and I'm smiling.


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## GorillaGrunt (Aug 15, 2021)

Mutt to coticule? @stringer, I’m not that much of a cowboy but I’m impressed. I think I did my first real hybrid edge the other day though, 1k to 12k, and I really liked it. And I do remember doing one for a guy with some German knife, 220 then deburr on Nakayama, he said it was the best and longest lasting edge he’s had on it.

For myself I usually use some kind of fine jnat at the end of the day, maybe followed by an unloaded leather strop. Less than a minute per knife. High carbide steels it’s Sigma 6000 then 1 micron diamond loaded felt.


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## Benuser (Aug 15, 2021)

Carl Kotte said:


> Do honing rods count? If so, they are my routine.


A diamond rod for 'touching up'??


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## Carl Kotte (Aug 15, 2021)

Benuser said:


> A diamond rod for 'touching up'??


Not anymore


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 15, 2021)

Idahone 10" "fine" ceramic honing/sharpening rod, edge-trailing. A few swipes as needed, typically 2-3 times a day. Takes seconds. I never allow the knife to get dull, and if I don't get immediate bite into tomato skins on the first draw, out comes the rod. Bought the knife in Nov. 2018, and have yet to sharpen on stones.


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## stringer (Aug 15, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Idahone 10" "fine" ceramic honing/sharpening rod, edge-trailing. A few swipes as needed, typically 2-3 times a day. Takes seconds. I never allow the knife to get dull, and if I don't get immediate bite into tomato skins on the first draw, out comes the rod.



The idahone and the Mac white were steps in my progression to what I'm doing now. I like having the mutt because I can use it to sharpen soft stainless NSF house knives as well.


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## cotedupy (Aug 15, 2021)

Do we reckon my Tam O’S honing stick I made today is going to work well...?

I’ve not really used a rod/steel before, so don’t really know much about them - it just seemed like a reasonable idea. Edge trailing strokes best?


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## Steampunk (Aug 15, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Do we reckon my Tam O’S honing stick I made today is going to work well...?
> 
> I’ve not really used a rod/steel before, so don’t really know much about them - it just seemed like a reasonable idea. Edge trailing strokes best?



Not used a Tam yet (Always wanted to, but they're rather rare.), but on compatible steels (High vanadium/tungsten is probably not its thing. It maybe would work on some stainless, but maybe not. Simple carbon is a good bet.) it should do quite well. I'd suggest alternating edge-leading strokes at the same angle you sharpen at. If the stone is VERY hard (Arkansas hard) you might be able to get away with a little higher micro-bevel sort of angle. The oval shape will be kinder to the blade than a round.

Heel to tip, alternating edge leading, little or no pressure (Make sure the pressure is consistent.), and see how it goes.

The real question for me, is, whether or not it works well dry, or if it really needs to be wet? That, you will need to do some trial & error on.


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## Steampunk (Aug 15, 2021)

Double post.


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 15, 2021)

stringer said:


> The idahone and the Mac white were steps in my progression to what I'm doing now. I like having the mutt because I can use it to sharpen soft stainless NSF house knives as well.



Stringer, have you tried the coarse Idahone? I'm thinking of ordering one this week, just to see if it would fit well in the progression. According to Idahone, the "fine" white rod is equivalent to 1200 grit, and the dark "coarse" rod is equivalent to 300 grit. I've got plenty of coarse stones (SG-120, SG220, SG320, Norton 220, Norton SiC, etc) I'm just curious if I can fit that coarse rod into a routine.


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## stringer (Aug 15, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> Stringer, have you tried the coarse Idahone? I'm thinking of ordering one this week, just to see if it would fit well in the progression. According to Idahone, the "fine" white rod is equivalent to 1200 grit, and the dark "coarse" rod is equivalent to 300 grit. I've got plenty of coarse stones (SG-120, SG220, SG320, Norton 220, Norton SiC, etc) I'm just curious if I can fit that coarse rod into a routine.



I have not. But I have used other coarse ceramic hones in the 300grit range. I like them for soft stainless. I would use them in similar cases to using a diamond coated rod. Like for touching up banquet meat slicers at a hotel. I don't care for them for J-knives.


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## Benuser (Aug 15, 2021)

Surprised to see edge trailing strokes being applied on ceramic rods. I would strongly prefer edge leading. The burr will be much smaller, and less material unnecessarily removed.


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## cotedupy (Aug 15, 2021)

Steampunk said:


> Not used a Tam yet (Always wanted to, but they're rather rare.), but on compatible steels (High vanadium/tungsten is probably not its thing. It maybe would work on some stainless, but maybe not. Simple carbon is a good bet.) it should do quite well. I'd suggest alternating edge-leading strokes at the same angle you sharpen at. If the stone is VERY hard (Arkansas hard) you might be able to get away with a little higher micro-bevel sort of angle. The oval shape will be kinder to the blade than a round.
> 
> Heel to tip, alternating edge leading, little or no pressure (Make sure the pressure is consistent.), and see how it goes.
> 
> The real question for me, is, whether or not it works well dry, or if it really needs to be wet? That, you will need to do some trial & error on.



Thank you for this, very useful!

I think you’re right re - steel types, I don’t really know why but I just get the impression TOS wouldn’t do so well with stainless. Though we don’t have any so can’t confirm. They’re actually rather soft, which slightly surprised me when I first got. Probably the softest, fine-grit natural stones I know, and very silky. Would certainly recommend trying if you can find one at a semi reasonable price.

It *might* work when dry, but I wouldn’t know til I’ve tried, otherwise a splash of water on the blade would be grand I expect.

Will give it a whirl later...


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## Benuser (Aug 16, 2021)

Benuser said:


> Surprised to see edge trailing strokes being applied on ceramic rods. I would strongly prefer edge leading. The burr will be much smaller, and less material unnecessary removed.


As for edge trailing with a steel rod, it's the surest way to develop a wire edge — an thin burr on top of the edge, crazy sharp that fail with the first board contact and foil over the edge or break off and leave a moonscape behind. Some stainless are very likely to develop one.


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## cotedupy (Aug 16, 2021)

Went quite well I think @Steampunk , cheers for the advice / thoughts!

Tried it out on the knife that my better half uses most, and tends to leave in a state of mild... err... 'disrepair' (I'm not certain it had even been washed before being put away). I could have got it sharper on a bench stone in the same number of strokes, but then that's not really the point is it! This was quicker than getting a stone out, less messy, and still got the knife back to going alright through kitchen towel with maybe 5 or so strokes each side.







Seemed to work best doing a couple of trailing passes, then a few leading ones - they're not the quickest stones in the world, and I think that might have shivvied it along a bit. Also better with the blade wetted rather than completely dry.

Though of course back in the Auld Country, my ne'er-do-well cousin Dougal MacPy prefers simply to hock up a bit of phlegm and go from there...


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## Desert Rat (Aug 16, 2021)

Spittle is the best but not always socially acceptable....


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 16, 2021)

Benuser said:


> As for edge trailing with a steel rod, it's the surest way to develop a wire edge — an thin burr on top of the edge, crazy sharp that fail with the first board contact and foil over the edge or break off and leave a moonscape behind. Some stainless are very likely to develop one.



In a purely theoretical world, that argument would make perfect sense.


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## Benuser (Aug 16, 2021)

Bobby2shots said:


> In a purely theoretical world, that argument would make perfect sense.


I wanted to share my personal experience. If you want to qualify it as 'purely theoretical', that's up to you. Good luck.


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## Bobby2shots (Aug 16, 2021)

Hi Benuser,

Please don't take my comment too seriously. It wasn't intended to be,, which is why I had added a "smiley".


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## Cliff (Aug 16, 2021)

Late to this one. For me touching up means a quick session with high grit stones rather than a full progression. I'll do SG 2K and 6K every month or so for home use, for some knives maybe 4K and 8K, dropping down to 330 once a year or so and thinning behind the edge. For naturals, it would be Natsuya --> hard Aoto and maybe a Suita or Ohira Asagi, depending.


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## Tapio (Aug 16, 2021)

One might argue that touching up is all I do. It’s really rare that I use anything coarser than 3000 grit for my kitchen knives. Medium and coarse stones are not needed if there is not any unusual damage. Few strokes on a 3000-5000 grit stone and minimal amount of stropping on leather or newspaper restores that enjoyable eagerness to the edge. Usually I do this after 1-3 months of use.


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## cotedupy (Aug 17, 2021)

Desert Rat said:


> Spittle is the best but not always socially acceptable....



Yes, I fear the traditional Scotch method may be something of a dying art in the times of Covid.


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## Boynutman (Aug 17, 2021)

cotedupy said:


> Yes, I fear the traditional Scotch method may be something of a dying art in the times of Covid.



Talk about green sharpening water...


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## Steampunk (Aug 17, 2021)

It depends a lot upon the knife, for me... And my mood, to an extent.

On a lot of J-Knives, I really like the Shapton Glass Stone 4K HR for this sort of thing. Just fast enough to bring back an edge, but still slow enough to deburr on, and hard enough to regrind a crisp bevel if you need to work on it a little longer to bring an edge back. Splash & Go. Still has some teeth to it straight off the stone, so you're not relying on a 'hybrid' edge with underlying teeth from a coarser stone to give you bite.

On Victorinox, Wusthof, and the like that tend to dull quickly and be more burr prone, I've found the JNS 800 Matukusuyama to be a perfect solution. Such knives respond really well, and quickly to this stone, to create the sort of 'working' edge that they can _sort of_ hold.

If I finished edges on natural stones, I tend to return to them to touch-up. Belgian Blue's, Arks, J-Nats, etc. Stones that are fast/hard enough to bring back the character they instilled.

I can't say I care for 6K and higher synths for touching up the edge bevel most of the time, even if sometimes I do like to finish on them in a full progression. Most of the time you lose toothiness with an edge touched up on 6K+ synths; they need to be part of a hybrid progression. You can bring back a dull edge on a fast 6K, but it lacks aggression. A 6K synth edge following a 1K still has some bite. 6K worked a bit longer on its own doesn't.

When I'm not in the mood to wet or oil stones and need to get an edge usable again, I sometimes pull out a 1-micron diamond pasted strop made out of hard balsa or basswood... 1-micron diamond compound is probably the most useful stropping paste. It cuts fast enough, but not so fast you'll easily round your edge or create a burr you can't control, and still has just enough bite. The bite from 1-micron diamond, on its own, is just barely enough for kitchen work without needing to be 'hybridized' by making a big grit jump from a coarser abrasive. No, this edge doesn't last as long as a good stone edge. However, it takes less metal off, and is easy to re-do when you're not on your best game.

What are especially frustrating, are those moments when your knife's edge starts to fail mid-prep, and you need to touch it up while things are cooking. I've played around with various honing rods to avoid having to wash the knife and hurriedly touch it up on stones or strops, but have to say my success with them is mixed and limited. None seem to come close to the stone edges I like. Sometimes I can get it back by palm stropping if the failure is due to edge rolling from the geometry being too extreme, but if it's due to actual abrasive or acid dulling, then there's no choice... I either have to accept a mediocre rod edge (Sometimes you can kill the edge on a rod if you're not being careful.), or stop everything, to touch up the blade on stones or strops.

'Hybrid' edges (Where both coarse and fine scratches are present on the apex, by making large jumps in grit.) are wonderful cullinary edges in terms of how they feel to cut with, and some even last well. However, they can't be 'touched up', per-say. One needs to re-do that full progression to regain that edge character, and potentially waste some metal to get that last 10-20% sharpness back that you miss. I really enjoy using these edges, until they start to dull. Then, I prefer the stones or stropping compounds that deliver that edge characteristic I'm looking for all on their own. High tungsten/vanadium carbide steels, or steels with very large chromium carbides, seem to respond especially well to these 'hybrid' edges. Whereas simple, fine-grained alloys seem to respond more predictably to abrasives. A 6K edge on Shirogami is a 6K edge if you've raised a burr. A 6K edge isn't a 6K edge on Aogami Super, if you've preceded it with a 1K stone; even with a burr raised....

Sometimes, I can bring an edge back satisfactorily just on a bare horse-butt strop. This leather is firm, and abrasive enough, it can sometimes do that if the damage is mild.


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