# You asked, you whined, now here it is: Kato passaround



## pitonboy

Finally got ahold of another Kato for a passaround. If interested, please PM me you address AND whether you would rather try a 240 or a 270

List might need to be limited depending on demand

BC


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## heirkb

YES!! PM sent!


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## chinacats

Woo-Hoo! I would love to be included, pm sent. 240 or 270 is good.

Thanks


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## sachem allison

i would love to try it in my restaurant but, I think it's underwater right now.


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## sachem allison

i would love to try it in my restaurant but, I think it's underwater right now. Dammit!


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## cookinstuff

Never done a passaround before, but this has piqued my interests. If it's okay to send up north I'd like to give this a try.


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## Eamon Burke

sachem allison said:


> i would love to try it in my restaurant but, I think it's underwater right now. Dammit!



For the second time, your knives are safe with me. LOL, how does that keep happening??


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## sachem allison

God and I talk.lol He keeps my life around for comic relief in exchange for a few favors once in awhile.


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## daveb

I would like to be on the 270 list. I can't try them all but that is definitely one I would like to.

Regards,

Dave


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## eshua

Sounds amazing ... gona have to get in on another pass soon.


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## knyfeknerd

I would love to try a 270.


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## Chifunda

PM sent.


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## pitonboy

I think it's going to be the 270 by general interest.


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## Pensacola Tiger

PM sent.


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## markenki

PM sent. Thanks, Ben!


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## JMJones

PM sent


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## EdipisReks

pm sent


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## Lefty

Sounds awesome, but the passaround I'm currently in is going to cost me the price of the damn knife, cuz I ain't givin' it back! Also, I'm in on JMJones' passaround and it interests me just as much, if not more than the fabled Kato.

I can't do it, or else I would. Very cool, though, and I'm looking forward to reading about this one.


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## pitonboy

List almost full


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## Phantom9309

PM Sent


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## tk59

PM sent. I hope it's not too late.


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## Jmadams13

When will those of us who PM'd know when we are on the list or not?


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## tk59

PM sent. I hope it's not too late.


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## wenus2

Soooo..l think Tinh wants on the list, lol.


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## Crothcipt

ah man being busy sucks. I would love to be on this P.A.


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## bieniek

Wow, hahaha, some arrogancy will be cut short in the next few months.

Great passaround! Thanks to the OP.


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## pitonboy

List is pretty much full

Will collate list and need knife to come from Australia


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## Johnny.B.Good

I can't wait to read some more impressions of this knife...

Thanks for doing this, Piton!


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## Zwiefel

Sooooooo.......what makes the kato special?


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## Johnny.B.Good

Zwiefel said:


> Sooooooo.......what makes the kato special?



http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/8038-Yoshiaki-Fujiwara-Kato-240mm-review

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7943-Kiyoshi-Kato-27cm

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/7809-Kato-27cm-chefs-knife-Maxim-delivers

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/8348-Kato-Gallery


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## Zwiefel

Thanks Mr. Good!

Funny thing is I read all of those before but didnt remember the product....


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## kalaeb

Zwiefel said:


> Sooooooo.......what makes the kato special?



I have to agree to some extent, call me a cynic, arrogant...whatever, but when the wheel is re-invented and something new hits the market and is immediately praised as the best thing since sliced bread a little objectivity goes a long way. 

I am not saying the knife is not great, (I have never held or used one)and I greatly appreciate the 2 reviews so far, but really I almost think at this level of the game it is not so much the item, as any knife in this range or above sure as heck better perform, as the relationships made during the process. Whether the communication with custom makers or the help and communication with the phenomenal vendors such as Maxim, Jon etc that make or break the experience.

I am really looking forward to some reviews and I hope they all make me put my foot in my mouth.


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## pitonboy

Knife arrived from Australia this morning, so we are ready to go. Here's the list:


JMJones
brainsausage
heirkb
Jmadams13
EdipisReks
GlassEye
chinacats
Chifunda
PensacolaTiger
Daveb
tk59
markenki

Pitonboy (me)

Tba later due to international shipping: Cutty Sharp and cookinstuff


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## pitonboy

Please insure for $600


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## tk59

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it!


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## heirkb

Great! Thanks for running this passaround!

BTW, how long should each person expect to keep the knife? The only reason I ask is because I'm travelling around Thanksgiving, so I'm hoping that my turn doesn't come up right around that time (Nov 21-25).


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## markenki

Yey! Thanks a lot for doing this, Ben.


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## pitonboy

Keep it for about a week but Holidays can mess that up. It's OK


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## brainsausage

I had one of these on hold from Maxim, but some ****head smashed into my car late night about a week ago. Cleaned out my savings doing repairs. So this is very appreciated on my part Ben!


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## heirkb

pitonboy said:


> Keep it for about a week but Holidays can mess that up. It's OK



Thanks again, Ben! This is very nice of you.


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## Jmadams13

Thank you. Super excited!!


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## cookinstuff

Thanks for doing this Ben, alot of fencesitters on this knife I feel.


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## Cutty Sharp

I'm excited about this! I'm down for both this and the Shigefusa passaround, and look forward to comparing to my Gesshin Hide. 

Man, gonna be a long wait though - I'm 13th.

Patience, patience.... :joec:


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## heirkb

Cutty Sharp said:


> I'm excited about this! I'm down for both this and the Shigefusa passaround, and look forward to comparing to my Gesshin Hide.
> 
> Man, gonna be a long wait though - I'm 13th.
> 
> Patience, patience.... :joec:



That's my reference point, too (as far as thick knives go). The Gesshin Hide that I used briefly was really impressive...


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## Cutty Sharp

Yes, I enjoy mine. Imagine if the 2 passarounds arrived at the same time and I had all 3 at once! :spin chair:


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## bieniek

Hey guys wassup any updates?


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## pitonboy

I think it's in Maine which is remote and without modern means of communication:lol2:


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## brainsausage

pitonboy said:


> I think it's in Maine which is remote and without modern means of communication:lol2:



I have to send smoke signals to the cable office, then its a 100 mile ride on horseback from the teletype in New Hampshire, to the cultural mecca that is Boston, where my attorney transcribes it to this forum. Since I'm paying by the letter, here's a quick review: I want this knife, and calling it a knife is doing a disservice to swords everywhere. It's frickin huge. I'll post some more when the wind is favorable for signaling. 

Cheers,

-Josh


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## heirkb

That means I'm next! Really looking forward to this one.


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## jgraeff

Hey guys is the list finalized? I'm not sure how I missed this thread but I'd love a chance to get in on it have been debating on getting one.


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## cclin

if its possible! may I jump-in for this Kato passaround??


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## brainsausage

If I'm ever done with it... 

Just kidding... I'm mailing it out tomorrow.

As much as I'd rather not.

Best knife I've laid my hands on as of yet.


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## Jmadams13

I'm getting close! lol. Now I just need to plan what I'm gonna cut with it to give it a workout.


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## heirkb

brainsausage said:


> If I'm ever done with it...
> 
> Just kidding... I'm mailing it out tomorrow.
> 
> As much as I'd rather not.
> 
> Best knife I've laid my hands on as of yet.



Did Ben give you my shipping address already? I'm not sure of the shipping rules for this passaround, but if you do get tracking, please PM me the number as it will make picking up the package much easier for me.


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## pitonboy

There was a list with mailing addresses on it but they don't tend to last the whole trip


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## brainsausage

Sent the kato(as well as the list)your way yesterday afternoon Heirkb. No tracking, as they said at that level of insurance it would require a signature anyways.


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## heirkb

pitonboy said:


> There was a list with mailing addresses on it but they don't tend to last the whole trip



Hmm, don't think I ever got that. I will have to contact you when my week is up with this knife for the address I need to ship to.

I think the knife is already at the mailroom at my school and I will pick it up tomorrow. Can't wait.


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## Jmadams13

I'm next I think. If you need my address, just pm me.


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## brainsausage

heirkb said:


> Hmm, don't think I ever got that. I will have to contact you when my week is up with this knife for the address I need to ship to.
> 
> I think the knife is already at the mailroom at my school and I will pick it up tomorrow. Can't wait.



The list is in the box!


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## heirkb

brainsausage said:


> The list is in the box!



Ooh, makes sense.

So I just got the knife home and took it to the little produce I have on hand right now. I tried doing some really fine mincing on an onion and some shaving on some jerusalem artichokes. So far...not super impressed, BUT it might be the edge that has a large part in that. Is it ok for us to touch up the edge if we feel confident in doing basic edge work?


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## heirkb

Just read Ben's note. I'll touch it up, but I won't kill it


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## brainsausage

heirkb said:


> Just read Ben's note. I'll touch it up, but I won't kill it



Sorry, I meant to let you know that it needed some time on the stones. I really beat on it to see if it deserved the name 'workhorse'. And it does IMO. I have pretty rudimentary sharpening skills, so I didn't really feel comfortable sharpening it.


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## Jmadams13

Im gonna run it through the paces myself. We have a lot of catering during my week, so it's gonna see a lot of use. Heirkb, after you take it to the stones, let us know what you think again


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## heirkb

I have a bit of an update. Just a heads up, when it comes to things like knives, I'm usually the type of person who makes up my mind fairly quickly about a knife. This could be good or bad, but in my experience, it's been a fairly accurate predictor of how I'll like the knife in the future. I could learn to adjust to the tools, but with tests as simple as splitting an apple or mincing an onion, if the knife doesn't perform the way I want, I don't feel the need to adjust to a $500 tool when others can do the same job better for my uses. I've had experiences where I've compared a knife and found one knife to better cutting than the other for my uses. I then adjusted to the less nice cutter after using it almost exclusively for months, but as soon as I compared it to the better cutting knife again, it would immediately remind me of my first impressions of the knife. Anyways, that was a long disclaimer so that you know where I'm coming from with my opinion...

I sharpened up the edge on this knife and let me say, this was one of the hardest knives for me to raise a consistent burr on. Don't worry, Ben, I didn't remove too much metal (I'll post a pic of the current edge. I did end up lowering the bevel angle by just a hair I think, so that may have contributed to the issues raising the burr, but still, when I've done such a small decrease in the bevel angle (1-2 degrees probably), I haven't had this much trouble. The final edge is not awesome like a pro-sharpened edge would be, but a definite improvement.

The knife after sharpening behaved very differently. It shaved hard items much better. It cut semi-soft items (e.g. swiss chard stems) very well with no sticking. It did fairly well on the vertical cuts on the onions. It struggled a bit on horizontal onion cuts, which I'm sure was partly my technique and partly the knife. Finally, the knife struggled a good bit on bigger cuts on anything hard that I tried (e.g. turnips). I've talked a lot with others about this and how technique can improve it. Technique did improve the cuts on harder items, but the knife still struggled much more than my Marko practice gyuto (and more than I remember my Heiji struggling). All in all, there wasn't a single cutting test I did on a range of soft to hard vegetables (no meat slicing, though) where this knife outperformed my Marko gyuto (or my memory of my Heiji). Now this could be too hasty a conclusion, but as I said at the top of the post, I usually get a good sense of how I like a knife after the first few uses. 

A few more things...this knife was not particularly reactive, but it just reminded me of how awesomely unreactive Marko's 52100 is for carbon. The onions I cut with this guy oxidized fairly quickly, but the ones I cut with the Marko gyuto were totally clean. Finally, this thing is HEAVY. Seriously, you've heard it, but you don't get it until you actually have the knife in your hands. Makes my Marko feel like a petty even though it's a 250 gyuto. 

I'll keep this for another day or two just to make sure yesterday wasn't a fluke, but knowing the (perhaps too) hasty way I form opinions about knives, I don't want to hold up the passaround for longer than necessary. Thanks again for the awesome opportunity, Ben. Feeling like I no longer want to buy the Kato is like having a $600 weight lifted :lol2:


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## mainaman

heirkb said:


> I have a bit of an update. Just a heads up, when it comes to things like knives, I'm usually the type of person who makes up my mind fairly quickly about a knife. This could be good or bad, but in my experience, it's been a fairly accurate predictor of how I'll like the knife in the future. I could learn to adjust to the tools, but with tests as simple as splitting an apple or mincing an onion, if the knife doesn't perform the way I want, I don't feel the need to adjust to a $500 tool when others can do the same job better for my uses. I've had experiences where I've compared a knife and found one knife to better cutting than the other for my uses. I then adjusted to the less nice cutter after using it almost exclusively for months, but as soon as I compared it to the better cutting knife again, it would immediately remind me of my first impressions of the knife. Anyways, that was a long disclaimer so that you know where I'm coming from with my opinion...
> 
> I sharpened up the edge on this knife and let me say, this was one of the hardest knives for me to raise a consistent burr on. Don't worry, Ben, I didn't remove too much metal (I'll post a pic of the current edge. I did end up lowering the bevel angle by just a hair I think, so that may have contributed to the issues raising the burr, but still, when I've done such a small decrease in the bevel angle (1-2 degrees probably), I haven't had this much trouble. The final edge is not awesome like a pro-sharpened edge would be, but a definite improvement.
> 
> The knife after sharpening behaved very differently. It shaved hard items much better. It cut semi-soft items (e.g. swiss chard stems) very well with no sticking. It did fairly well on the vertical cuts on the onions. It struggled a bit on horizontal onion cuts, which I'm sure was partly my technique and partly the knife. Finally, the knife struggled a good bit on bigger cuts on anything hard that I tried (e.g. turnips). I've talked a lot with others about this and how technique can improve it. Technique did improve the cuts on harder items, but the knife still struggled much more than my Marko practice gyuto (and more than I remember my Heiji struggling). All in all, there wasn't a single cutting test I did on a range of soft to hard vegetables (no meat slicing, though) where this knife outperformed my Marko gyuto (or my memory of my Heiji). Now this could be too hasty a conclusion, but as I said at the top of the post, I usually get a good sense of how I like a knife after the first few uses.
> 
> A few more things...this knife was not particularly reactive, but it just reminded me of how awesomely unreactive Marko's 52100 is for carbon. The onions I cut with this guy oxidized fairly quickly, but the ones I cut with the Marko gyuto were totally clean. Finally, this thing is HEAVY. Seriously, you've heard it, but you don't get it until you actually have the knife in your hands. Makes my Marko feel like a petty even though it's a 250 gyuto.
> 
> I'll keep this for another day or two just to make sure yesterday wasn't a fluke, but knowing the (perhaps too) hasty way I form opinions about knives, I don't want to hold up the passaround for longer than necessary. Thanks again for the awesome opportunity, Ben. Feeling like I no longer want to buy the Kato is like having a $600 weight lifted :lol2:


wow


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## echerub

It's good to hear different users' perspectives. Very nice writeup.


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## heirkb

mainaman said:


> wow



Maybe yours is different. Or maybe everyone who has loved Shigs and Katos in the past has had a golden touch with them. Whatever it is, I simply haven't gotten why people think they're such special cutters. Special knives, yes, but as cutters, both my Shig gyuto and this Kato haven't blown me away.


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## heirkb

Just to add a little more of an update in case I hurt a few feelings :lol2:

I threw more things at this knife. I'd been talking with another member about good tests for geometry and I agreed with him that mincing onion finely is a particularly good test, so that was one that I weighed heavily. I did a bunch of random cutting of a lot of hard winter vegetables, onion mincing, greens, softer veg...I split hard veg, shaved the hard veg, cut them into different sized cubes, minced onions, shaved leeks, did a lot of rocking with the greens and herbs, and other random things. Sorry, no meat because the meat I ate was braised. In every single thing except one, the Marko gyuto was just a much more effortless cutter. Where the Kato was better was on greens and herbs. I haven't loved really thin-behind-the-edge knives for greens in the past either (felt the same about my Tilman). For those who don't like hearing that I didn't love the Kato, maybe you can console yourselves by thinking that I am an unskilled user and that the Marko is more dumb-user-friendly, but I see zero benefit to buying a less user-friendly knife if another is already literally effortless at cutting (unlike many other knives that I had heard supposedly fall through food, the Marko actually does), has great food release, great edge retention, etc. without any need for esoteric adjustments. 

A few other things...the reactiveness on this knife is nice. Not as nice as the 52100 practice knife, but still nice. There was a minor overgrind at the heel of the knife where the bevel tapered off when I got the knife. I don't think it was a sharpening problem, because the stone wouldn't hit that part of the heel for a while. It seems to have mostly come out after my sharpening, though.

Thanks again for the opportunity, Ben. I really appreciate having had a chance to try this knife. It will be in the mail tomorrow.

Here are some pictures:

very minor overgrind:





bevels after sharpening:








kato choil:




marko choil (can't quite see the grind well in this):


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## heirkb

The Kato went out earlier today (or I guess it's yesterday for us east-coasters), as promised. Thanks again.


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## Jmadams13

Was there a tracking number?


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## heirkb

I'll PM it to you soon; sorry for forgetting to do that earlier.


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## bieniek

Sounds to me like I really have to get one Marko. 
You mind passing yours around? :spiteful:


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## Jmadams13

I hate the postal service this time of the year. Estemiated delivery yesterday, and tracking not updated since it was shipped. Stupid mail. 


Bitching over. I was just hoping to get some time with it before the holiday weekend.


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## JMJones

I think I was the first person to get the knife on the pass around. Overall I liked it very much. The edge it had on it was excellent. It is a hefty knife by all accounts but it cut everything I used it for adequately. That being said I did notice more wedging on some potatoes than I have experienced on other knives. However I think that this knife is made with food release in mind, with the understanding that there will be a little more wedging. I did not sharpen it at all because I did not use it too much but a quick stropping had the edge sticky sharp again. I feel that a knife like this is a good example of differences in personal preferences. Some people like to drive a Big 4x4 pickup and others a little sports car. Both can be perfect for their owner but both still have pluses and minuses.


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## Jmadams13

I picked it up from the post office this morning as I was my home to sign for it yesterday. Unfortunately, I had to drop it off home them head to Pittsburgh till Monday, so I will not have a chance to use it tip then

First impression though, was I was expecting a nicer f&f on a knife this price. The transition from the buffalo horn and the wood is a little rough. Maybe I'm just being a little picky. I do like the heft of her, but that's just from a quick handling. I'll report back a little more in depth after the holidays


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## Jmadams13

Ill be mailing it out tomorrow. Didn't get to use it that much, but the little I did, I found it was a little to thick or my tastes. I liked the lower reactivity, and the edge retention was great, just didn't feel right in my hand. I'm glad I was able to try her out, just think its not my "thing." Probably due I me being a cleaver guy, but I was worth a shot. 


I didn't sharpen her, just a few strops here and there, as I was happy with the edge it had.


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## EdipisReks

Jmadams13 said:


> Ill be mailing it out tomorrow. Didn't get to use it that much, but the little I did, I found it was a little to thick or my tastes. I liked the lower reactivity, and the edge retention was great, just didn't feel right in my hand. I'm glad I was able to try her out, just think its not my "thing." Probably due I me being a cleaver guy, but I was worth a shot.
> 
> 
> I didn't sharpen her, just a few strops here and there, as I was happy with the edge it had.



do you need my address, or is there a list with the knife?


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## Jmadams13

I've got it, there's a list in the box.


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## Jmadams13

It's on it's way Jacob, just left the post office. Should be there Friday.


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## EdipisReks

looking forward to it! i have my 270 Heiji in fighting form, ready for a head to head.


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## Jmadams13

That should be a good fight. Looking forward to your opinions.

I'm not are what it was, but I just wasn't feeling it. I think I'm just too partial to my bellyless knives. I did like the heft (sorta) and the low reactivity was a nice change, and low sticktion was a plus. It's probably in part that I'm used to cheaper knives or ODC. Looking forward to others opinions and feelings.


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## EdipisReks

the Kato arrived. big knife! it has some edge chips, and it's quite dull, so i'll have to take care of that before i get a chance to use it, but i hope to do so this weekend.


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## Jmadams13

I didn't sharpen it (don't trust myself,) but did notice the chips when I recieved it, forgot to mention, sorry, my bad. I must have dulled it pretty bad, lol.


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## brainsausage

Jmadams13 said:


> I didn't sharpen it (don't trust myself,) but did notice the chips when I recieved it, forgot to mention, sorry, my bad. I must have dulled it pretty bad, lol.



Don't feel bad, I beat on it pretty hard when I had it. Couldn't help myself. It just likes to work...


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## EdipisReks

i went ahead and fixed it. didn't take long, Chosera 1k->Shapton 4k->Gesshin 8k. definitely more wear resistant than my Shig. very tall right hand bevel, which i raised ever so slightly to make up for removing the chips. the knife seems quite thick at the tip and edge compared to my 270 Heiji, and those things are instant suggesters of cutting performance, for me, but i'll keep an open mind until i get a chance to use it. here it is (in a bad, low light environment), next to the Heiji. the Heiji seems longer in the photo, but the edge length appears to be pretty identical.



 click to embiggen


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## brainsausage

The tip definitely needs a little work. One of my few gripes about this knife.


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## EdipisReks

it would be very easy to make the tip very thin. here is my Heiji's tip, which this will be going against:



 click to embiggen


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## brainsausage

Not to derail the thread, but I definitely need some help in regards to tip work. And do you mind posting a pic of the Kato's tip as well for comparison?


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## tk59

EdipisReks said:


> it would be very easy to make the tip very thin. here is my Heiji's tip, which this will be going against:
> 
> 
> 
> click to embiggen


Lovely...


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## EdipisReks

brainsausage said:


> Not to derail the thread, but I definitely need some help in regards to tip work. And do you mind posting a pic of the Kato's tip as well for comparison?



sure, i'll take a pic tomorrow.



tk59 said:


> Lovely...



i don't think quite as nice as the tip you put on your 240, though.


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## brainsausage

The more time I spend on this forum, the more I learn and I also realize how much I have yet to learn. Glad to have some knowledgable cats on here that are happy to share said knowledge. 

Annnnnyyyywayyyys- back to the Kato...


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## heirkb

Jmadams13 said:


> I didn't sharpen it (don't trust myself,) but did notice the chips when I recieved it, forgot to mention, sorry, my bad. I must have dulled it pretty bad, lol.



Hmm, didn't have those when I sent it out. You guys might want to pack it with a little bit of paper towels or something like that around the edge before sending it, since the cardboard sheath doesn't seem to have been enough.

Curious to see what you think of this knife EdipisReks...


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## EdipisReks

here is the Kato tip:



 click to embiggen


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## Jmadams13

Could be the cardboard. We pack the box tight, but not the actual box te knife is in. Something to think about in the future. Hmm...


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## EdipisReks

i used it for a good while, today. it certainly cut quite a bit better than i expected, but wasn't what i would consider great. cutting carrots and fennel bulb was a real chore, until they were reduced a bit, though it minced garlic and shallot and onion with no particular problems, though splitting a large onion took considerable force, and i had to reduce the onion into about 8 sections before i could really start mincing. i wish the tip were thinner. stickage wasn't bad at all. i find the balance of the knife to be awkwardly forward, but that is the kind of thing one would soon become used to. the existing patina was stable, and it didn't impart any off flavors or colors to the food. the edge retention is about the best i've see on a non-honyaki carbon blade, and it still easily shaved arm hair when i was done with the hour long cutting session. i didn't baby it, though i also didn't slam it against the board, or anything. i'll update impressions at the end of the week.


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## Jmadams13

I found the balance a little forward now that you mention it. Maybe that was the feel I wasn't liking it. Thanks for the tip pick, it's definitely going into my vault for reference.


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## bieniek

EdipisReks said:


> here is the Kato tip:
> 
> 
> 
> click to embiggen



:rofl2:

Jesus where are those big arse bevels coming from??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?
I can almost hear his voice begging for thinning. 

Haha no wonder the knife cuts bad. I would expect it to be quite shite. 
Think about it...with the grind this knife has, and with the bevels 2mm wide, how thick it is over the bevel? 

Henckels :laughat:


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## heirkb

bieniek said:


> :rofl2:
> 
> Jesus where are those big arse bevels coming from??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?
> I can almost hear his voice begging for thinning.
> 
> Haha no wonder the knife cuts bad. I would expect it to be quite shite.
> Think about it...with the grind this knife has, and with the bevels 2mm wide, how thick it is over the bevel?
> 
> Henckels :laughat:



The bevels as they came to me were a good bit thinner, but they were also at a higher angle. I was surprised when people said these were so thin BTE and I got such wide bevels. They were wider than bevels of a comparable angle on my Yoshihiro--I did thin the Yoshihiro a good amount, but it's not even that thin.


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## JMJones

bieniek said:


> :rofl2:
> 
> Jesus where are those big arse bevels coming from??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?
> I can almost hear his voice begging for thinning.
> 
> Haha no wonder the knife cuts bad. I would expect it to be quite shite.
> Think about it...with the grind this knife has, and with the bevels 2mm wide, how thick it is over the bevel?
> 
> Henckels :laughat:



I dont understand this post. Can you clarify? 

Thanks

John


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## EdipisReks

bieniek said:


> :rofl2:
> 
> Jesus where are those big arse bevels coming from??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?
> I can almost hear his voice begging for thinning.
> 
> Haha no wonder the knife cuts bad. I would expect it to be quite shite.
> Think about it...with the grind this knife has, and with the bevels 2mm wide, how thick it is over the bevel?
> 
> Henckels :laughat:



pretty much how it was when i got it, other than repairing the chips (i slightly increased the bevel angle to compensate as much as possible for the pretty significant chip repair, but i didn't want to remove too much steel, given that it's not my knife). i came to the conclusion that the knife certainly needed significant thinning, if it were to ever cut well. the bevel on the other side is much smaller. looking at the choil, the knife had a significant bevel asymmetry that surprised me quite a bit. i don't know how much the knife was sharpened before i got it.


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## mainaman

JMJones said:


> I dont understand this post. Can you clarify?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John


I think he means the blade is thick behind the edge due to the way it was reground. 
I am looking at mine and I see a rather thin tip, for me the question is who massacred the knife that badly. 

Here pics of mine







bevel is pretty thin


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## EdipisReks

yeah, not even close to what i saw when i opened the box.


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## GlassEye

I got the knife from the PO today. I fed it an apple, was a bit stinky, but alright so far.


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## GlassEye

EdipisReks said:


> i came to the conclusion that the knife certainly needed significant thinning, if it were to ever cut well. the bevel on the other side is much smaller. looking at the choil, the knife had a significant bevel asymmetry that surprised me quite a bit. i don't know how much the knife was sharpened before i got it.



Basically my thoughts upon opening the box and examining it. I thought these were supposed to be 50/50 geometry, anyone know? The bevels are quite asymmetric, and I did notice a small amount of steering in the one quick use so far, it is quite thick behind the edge, but I am not going to do much work on someone else's knife. I would like to see the choil rounded a bit and polished some if I were buying one. The weight and balance is really weird, a Gesshin Ginga is my only other gyuto right now, so the two cannot really be compared.


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## bieniek

JMJones said:


> I dont understand this post. Can you clarify?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John



This Mainaman did already but yeah this whole post can be shortened to one word : FAT

I did not mean its any of you guys fault. More like of damn thats thick comparing with mine. 

Given this knife was sharpened 10 times and never thinned[as finish on the blade suggests], its possible.
I will try to catch a photo of miine today.


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## maxim

That picture for sure looks very wierd to me, i had to go and see how they look and for sure they should be much thinner :dontknow:



EdipisReks said:


> here is the Kato tip:
> 
> 
> 
> click to embiggen


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## maxim

It is clearly that something was wrong with sharpening

here is picture of 210mm and 270mm Kato tips new out of the box


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## heirkb

mainaman said:


> bevel is pretty thin



Wow, those are way thinner than the bevels on the Kato (both before and after my sharpening). And the tips that Maksim posted look crazy thin in comparison to this one. Like I said above, the bevels did get wider when I sharpened it, but I sharpened at a fairly standard angle and didn't really cut away nearly enough that the knife would get suddenly thick BTE. The bevels on my Yoshihiro and Marko gyutos at similar angles look much more like the picture above, this thing was a fatty.

Was this knife modified or sharpened a lot (i.e. losing height and getting thicker BTE) before it got to the passaround or is there variability in the grind on the Katos? The tips on the knives Maksim posted look thinner than even Mainaman's, for example.


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## kalaeb

I find it hard to beleive the knife got that much thicker in less than 2 months of use. Especially since most indicated they only touched it up, if it hit the stones at all. Perhaps the knife was not particularly thin behind the edge to begin with.


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## EdipisReks

the tips Maxim posted look much thinner than Mainaman's (which in turn looked a lot better than the pass-around knife). i had read that tip thickness on early examples wasn't great, so i'm guessing these are the new ones.


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## maxim

You can even see it on my website, tips are much thinner in the pictures and those pictures is one of the first knives.


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## bieniek

An not perfect pic but the tip on mine, will try to take another one. Some 5-6mm from the top theres a line, it is where I ground off metal from the spine down when I broke the tip off. 
I broke the tip off few times but its still not that fat, come on.


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## bieniek

kalaeb said:


> I find it hard to beleive the knife got that much thicker in less than 2 months of use. Especially since most indicated they only touched it up, if it hit the stones at all. Perhaps the knife was not particularly thin behind the edge to begin with.



Youve seen a new Kato? Or is it just uneducated guess? 

I sharpened one of the first 24cms, at the gathering and I have the first 27cm myself. 
I dont say it is not possible for this knife to be a fake, but by implying this you suggest Maxim didnt check the knife, didnt noticed its porkiness, the new owner either. 

My question is, who broke the tip off, or chipped the edge and fixed it just by removing steel from the edge? 

And BTW I sharpened my 5 times over maybe 2 first weeks and already I had to thin to maintain it.


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## Twistington

I have one of the prototypes(the one Mike sharpened infact) and it is no way near that fat. :scared4: 

How it turned out like this, I'm not gonna speculate due to the fact it involves fingerpointing in one way or the other.


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## Von blewitt

I am the original owner, I had it less than 2 months, sharpened it maybe twice, I made no alterations to the profile, after I sold it I custom ordered a 240mm through Maksim, and specifically asked for a thinner tip, all comments I've made on this knife have mentioned that I thought the tip was a bit chubby


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## schanop

Huw's sale page is here: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/9043-FS-Yoshiaki-Fujiwara-(Kato)-270mm-wa-gyuto

Looked like the knife had a bit more metal when it left Australia. Just sayin.


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## bieniek

EdipisReks said:


>



Im not sure about that Chanop might just be the angle of the blade at the photo. 

EpidesReks is the bevel wider a little more in the middle of the edge length in this pic?

The Heiji is getting more and more interesting for me. Is that stainless-free?


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## GlassEye

bieniek said:


> Im not sure about that Chanop might just be the angle of the blade at the photo.
> 
> EpidesReks is the bevel wider a little more in the middle of the edge length in this pic?



The bevel is wider in the middle of edge length. Please see my next post for measurements of the blade.


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## GlassEye

Ok, so I made a few measurements while I have this Kato, I hope some can find these helpful.

Blade height:
heel- 52.53mm
10cm from heel- 48.51mm
18cm from heel- 40.28mm
1cm from tip- 9mm

Spine thickness:
at handle- 5.34mm
above heel- 4.99mm
10cm from heel- 3.12mm
18cm from heel- 2.99mm
1cm from tip- 1.35mm
2cm from tip- 2.02mm
3cm from tip- 2.61mm

Bevel width (right side):
heel- 1.88mm
13.5cm from heel- 2.46mm
tip- 2.09mm

Thickness behind edge (at bevel shoulder):
heel- .6mm
1cm from heel- .67mm
13.5cm from heel- .69mm
tip- .57mm


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## EdipisReks

bieniek said:


> Im not sure about that Chanop might just be the angle of the blade at the photo.
> 
> EpidesReks is the bevel wider a little more in the middle of the edge length in this pic?
> 
> The Heiji is getting more and more interesting for me. Is that stainless-free?



it was pretty significantly wider in the middle before i took the (pretty significant) chips out. i evened it out a bit, but took as little metal off as possible, so it was still a good bit wider in the middle.

my Heijis are semi-stainless. they do slowly take patina, and they sharpen up like really good carbon.


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## picopox

I got this 270mm back in October 2012, the tip is pretty thin.

This is a pic of the knife standing straight up and taken perpendicular to the handle (directly behind the knife). Ruler is there for a sense of scale.


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## bieniek

GlassEye said:


> heel- 52.53mm



Either way, something eaten minimum 1.5mm from blade height. 
Mine was over 55 when arrived.


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## Von blewitt

bieniek said:


> Either way, something eaten minimum 1.5mm from blade height.
> Mine was over 55 when arrived.



I didn't measure it when I got it, but I definately didn't eat that much metal, also doesn't account for the fat tip, the 240 I got definately cut better ootb.


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## maxim

Hi Huw, was tip as thick when you got it ??


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## Von blewitt

maxim said:


> Hi Huw, was tip as thick when you got it ??


Yes, that's why when I ordered the 240 I asked that the tip be thinner. But I assumed this is how they all were.


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## pitonboy

Maxim: Maybe it needs to come back to you so you can see and maybe fix it?


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## maxim

I will be happy to do it 

Edit:
or lets do it even faster, you send me the one that is pas around and i send a new one to a next contestant  

Ben Pm me what you want


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## JMac

Wow, thats great service if u say!


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## pitonboy

Who actually has possession of the knife right now?


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## GlassEye

I have it right now. Where do you want me to send it next?


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## bieniek

maxim said:


> I will be happy to do it
> 
> Edit:
> or lets do it even faster, you send me the one that is pas around and i send a new one to a next contestant
> 
> Ben Pm me what you want



wow. 
I can buy that one for a discount :tease:


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## maxim

I get some 240mm next week, so GlassEye can send it to me and i will ship new one to him so he try out real one.
bieniek: email me and we find something out


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## GlassEye

maxim said:


> I get some 240mm next week, so GlassEye can send it to me and i will ship new one to him so he try out real one.
> bieniek: email me and we find something out



That sounds like a great plan. I will PM you.


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## pitonboy

Maxim: It's a 270 for the passaround. Still game for an exchange?


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## maxim

Yes sure  I have them in stock so it will be even faster


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## GlassEye

The new Kato was delivered today, I will use it for a couple of days and try to get it out to the next person quickly.


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## chinacats

GlassEye, need to clear your inbox.

Cheers,
Jim


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## GlassEye

chinacats said:


> GlassEye, need to clear your inbox.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jim



Clear.


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## pitonboy

Anyone know where this knife is now? Just curious


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## chinacats

At the post office, I missed the mailman yesterday so off to get it this morning--at least if they are open as they are supposed to be.


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## chinacats

OK, Kato has landed. Thought I would post a few pics so you can see the new and improved tip.

not the best pics, but should be able to see the difference





from left Shig (240), Kato (270), Marko (225) different size knives so this may not help so much





finally choil shots in same order: Shig, Kato, Marko













Knife is right at 270mm, 50mm tall at heel, and I will have to weigh it as soon as I can and update. Balance point is about 55mm in front of handle--way blade heavy even for someone who likes it blade heavy--though I think a bigger handle would help with this (the current handle is a bit smaller than my 240 Shig-ho). Used it for dinner; scalloped potatoes with lots of onion and garlic along with chicken with mushrooms and habaneros. No stiction on potatoes or onions though didn't do the best job on the garlic (not as thin as I like) but I think that this is due to just being a new big arse knife and still getting a feel for it. Overall great cutter so far, only wedged a bit on rather large onion.

I know this pass-around has been delayed a bit so I will try to get it out late next week.

Cheers!


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## mpukas

Any chance I can added on to the end of this list? If not no worries.


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## EdipisReks

any chance i could try this again?


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## Jmadams13

I was thinking the same thing. Been watching the development, and would love to jump in on the thinner one if at all possible


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## pitonboy

Let's run through the list and see; I haven't even seen this knife and supposedledly it belongs to me LOL


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## pitonboy

Maybe we should let the first list run out and see what interest there is for a second passaround


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## Jmadams13

No problem. It's yours, I just didnt want to ask for it again first, lol. You should at least have a few days with it


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## brainsausage

The vultures are circling!


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## maxim

Just want to say it is not thinner version, it is exact same version as old one  
The other one was just sharpened to much without been thinned, and tip was repaired without that aria was thinned too.


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## mpukas

pitonboy said:


> Maybe we should let the first list run out and see what interest there is for a second passaround



I completely understand. I'll keep an eye out if you decide to start a new list.


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## Crothcipt

mpukas said:


> I completely understand. I'll keep an eye out if you decide to start a new list.



Ditto


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## chinacats

Knife went out yesterday, hoping it will arrive Monday...thanks Pitonboy for another fantastic PA.

Cheers!


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## Chifunda

The Kato arrived yesterday in good order. Haven't had a chance to use it yet, but my initial impression? If Conan the Barbarian had a gyuto, this would be it! :viking: 

A *very* manly knife indeed. 

More to follow.


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## pitonboy

Any updates on the sword?


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## Chifunda

Goes out to Rick tomorrow according to plan; my impressions to follow soon thereafter. 

This past week has been a difficult one at Casa Chifunda...we almost lost both our dog and my daughter's puppy but all seems to be well now.

It's only a dog, until it's your own.


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## pitonboy

Chifunda said:


> Goes out to Rick tomorrow according to plan; my impressions to follow soon thereafter.
> 
> This past week has been a difficult one at Casa Chifunda...we almost lost both our dog and my daughter's puppy but all seems to be well now.
> 
> It's only a dog, until it's your own.



Understood. It's never ONLY a dog. Hope everything goes better now


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## Pensacola Tiger

The knife was delivered today, well packed, in fine shape. I'm looking forward to putting it to work. Thanks, Ben!


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## Pensacola Tiger

The knife is on its way to _daveb_. 

It gives a new meaning to the phrase "mighty gyuto". 

Many thanks to you, Ben, for making the passaround possible.

Rick


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## Jmadams13

Review Rick?


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## daveb

Knife has arrived in Tampa, opened in kitchen, bad day to be a carrot.

Look forward to spending some time with it.


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## pitonboy

daveb said:


> Knife has arrived in Tampa, opened in kitchen, bad day to be a carrot.
> 
> Look forward to spending some time with it.



Hahahahahahahahaha
Go get em'


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## bathonuk

Guys I am not in passaround but I will give you some funny info. I bought a micrometer today and I have checked few things. This are the measurement in ''mm'' taken from heel, center and 2cm from tip.

Kato 24cm gyuto 0.45 0.38 0.39
Konosuke HD 24cm 0.57 0.41 0.41

Kato (spine):
5.7mm behind the handle
5.05 at the heel
2.80 at the center
2.21 2cm from the tip.


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## tk59

This knife arrived today. The box is toast but the knife is in good shape. I'm gonna clean it up and touch it up. +1 to the sword comments. This is a beastly knife. 


bathonuk said:


> ...
> Kato 24cm gyuto 0.45 0.38 0.39
> Konosuke HD 24cm 0.57 0.41 0.41
> ...


I'm a little unclear with regard to how far from the edge you are taking your measurements.


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## mzer

Does everybody love this knife, or do some people feel ashamed for not loving it and say nothing?


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## markenki

Yey, it will be my turn soon!


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## daveb

When it rains it pours...

I received the Kato as my first passaround. It seems to be inevitably compared to the Shig and since I recently traded my bank account to Maksim for one I was ready to do just that. 

I used the Kato and my Shig interchangeably for a few days and they were much more alike than different. Both very good cutters, sliding through product with little to no effort. And then Zwiefel's Ingoglia Gyuto-Hiki joined the party. 





A quick trip to the produce market. Bell peppers, summer squash, zucchini, tomatoes, jalapenos, celery, carrots, onions, scallions, garlic and sweet potatoes. (I realize some of you guys do more than this while drinking first cup of coffee but its a lot for this home cook.)




Most cutting was very similar. 

Differences in cutting were pronounced with summer squash and sweet potatoes - the Kato simply cut through better. Where the Shig needed just a little oomf, the Kato was on the board. Notes on squash had Shig at good - very good, some wedging. Kato very good, very clean. On sweet potato Shig at very good, Kato at excellent. 

Differences in fine control were less pronounced but while seeding tomatoes, deveining jalapenos, mincing garlic and slicing thin as I can scallion greens, the Shig got the nod. I attribute the better control to the lighter weight and the very comfortable (to me) "D" handle. Shig scaled at 251 grams, Kato scaled at 302g. Notes on on control while mincing garlic had Shig at very good, Kato at good. Not bad for either 270.

I'll add some thoughts on the Mario under that thread but used as a Gyuto it was much better than I expected. FWIW I've had the OXO peeler for a couple years and prefer it but the rolie is growing on me. I now have enough vegs for a lot of stock and the compost pile is going to eat well.




Regards,

Dave


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## markenki

Thanks for the nice write up, Dave.


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## tk59

It looks like markenki is next. I need your addy, dude.


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## Don Nguyen

Holy bananas that is one monstrous knife. Thanks for doing this passaround; this is really interesting.


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## bathonuk

tk59 said:


> This knife arrived today. The box is toast but the knife is in good shape. I'm gonna clean it up and touch it up. +1 to the sword comments. This is a beastly knife.
> I'm a little unclear with regard to how far from the edge you are taking your measurements.




I tried to do my best to measure it as close to behind the edge as I could. Just behind the shoulder??


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## bieniek

Hehe where are the reviews?


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## tk59

This is the beastliest gyuto I've ever used. I have a 240 Zakuri gyuto that weighs the same but it has a much heavier ebony handle. I've also used a Mizuno honyaki that was beastly but at 230+ mm, it didn't really handle like this one which is a very blade heavy 270. To cut to the chase, I really liked it. It does a lot of work for you. It isn't very reactive (at least not by the time I got it). Edge taking is a piece of cake and edge holding was above average compared to other carbon steels. It touches up with minimal effort (strop w/ diamond or 5+k stone) but that's to be expected of most knives. I don't know how many times it's been sharpened but it remained quite thin behind the edge although the choil shot is misleading due to a slight overgrind at the heel. I agree with daveb in that it is very Shig-like in performance although most Shigs I've used have tended to wedge more than this one and are noticeably lighter. I also give Shigs the nod with regard to food release. Regardless, I think I'd pick this knife over a typical Shig although I still prefer a couple of other knives in my stable.


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## markenki

Thanks for your thoughts.



tk59 said:


> Regardless, I think I'd pick this knife over a typical Shig although I still prefer a couple of other knives in my stable.


I'm curious to hear what those knives are.


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## Patatas Bravas

markenki said:


> Thanks for your thoughts. I'm curious to hear what those knives are.



Me too!


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## JohnnyChance

tk59 said:


> Regardless, I think I'd pick this knife over a typical Shig although I still prefer a couple of other knives in my stable.





markenki said:


> I'm curious to hear what those knives are.





Patatas Bravas said:


> Me too!



It is a pretty sizable stable. I am going to say some of TK's top cutters include but are not limited to: Devin's, Gengetsu, & Carter SFGZ.


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## tk59

JohnnyChance said:


> It is a pretty sizable stable. I am going to say some of TK's top cutters include but are not limited to: Devin's, Gengetsu, & Carter SFGZ.


Pretty much... Of the "stock" gyutos, I like my Gengetsu the best. I also continue to reach for (and buy) Devin and Tilman's knives. Then there are the one's I've modified myself. Those include Glestain, A-type, and Heiji. I like my Carters a lot but the edge retention just isn't there. I happen to be baby-sitting an Ashi honyaki that's pretty awesome, too. Okay... I'm rambling. I'm going with Gengetsu for a stock knife.


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## Pensacola Tiger

tk59 said:


> Pretty much... Of the "stock" gyutos, I like my Gengetsu the best. I also continue to reach for (and buy) Devin and Tilman's knives. Then there are the one's I've modified myself. Those include Glestain, A-type, and Heiji. I like my Carters a lot but the edge retention just isn't there. I happen to be baby-sitting an Ashi honyaki that's pretty awesome, too. Okay... I'm rambling. I'm going with Gengetsu for a stock knife.



Semi-stainless or white #2 core?


----------



## labor of love

Semi stainless. Tk wrote a great review of it. And it's pretty much been sold out ever since.


----------



## tk59

I've spent quality time with both versions. The white version gets that exciting carbon steel edge more so than the semi (obviously) but the edge retention on the semi is much better in my kitchen. I loved both of them. OOTB, they are such sweet cutters. I wanted to get it in a steel that would allow me to keep that original geometry as long as possible before I'd have to modify/thin it.


----------



## markenki

The Kato is on its way back to its owner. Here are my quick thoughts on the knife, which I'll be comparing with a Shigefusa 240 kasumi gyuto.

The first thing I noticed about the Kato was that the heel had a small chip at the very corner. The only other Kato I've seen in front of me (a brand new one) had a similar chip. Not sure what to make of that observation.

The finish was not bad, but not up to Shigefusa quality. The spine was smooth and polished. The choil was not as polished, and had more-visible tooling/scratch marks, but was perfectly fine and comfortable; no sharp edges. I wouldn't take any points away from the Kato for that; just a different way of doing things, I guess.

The knife came with an octagonal burnt chestnut handle. Never having seen one up close, I was not a fan of burnt chestnut, but I've now changed my mind. That handle was very nice!

The Kato is thick and heavy, and my initial thought was "there's no way this knife will cut well". I could see it wedging already. Well, I was wrong. This knife is cutter, folks.

I started out with big white mushrooms, and on those the Shigefusa did marginally better, requiring slightly less effort to go through. Next up was onions. On those the Kato was better. While the Shigefusa required some pushing to go through some parts, the Kato seemed to just fall through. Maybe the weight of the Kato had something to do with it, but I don't believe that is the whole story. There must be something about its geometry that just works. Amazing.

Potatoes were the final test, and here, too, the Kato won. While neither knife just fell through, the Kato required noticeably less effort.

For feel in my hand, I prefer the Shigefusa, probably because it is lighter, but dammit, that Kato can cut!

In summary, the Kato is a very, very, nice knife that performs extremely well.

Many thanks again to Ben for allowing us to try the knife out. I think I need one.

Best regards,

Mark


----------

