# Looking for my dream carbon gyuto



## Toft (Jan 16, 2014)

Hey there, looking for some advice on selecting a knife. Since I work as a sous chef and just really like knives, my fiancé would like to buy me a really nice knife as an engagement gift. So without further ado, here's the nitty gritty:

LOCATION: USA

KNIFE TYPE
Gyuto
Right-handed
Wa handle
240mm
Carbon steel (preferably not san-mai)
Absolute maximum budget would be around $600, maybe a little more

KNIFE USE
I primarily intend to use the knife in a professional kitchen, though we're not super high volume (~200 covers on a busy night). I'd rather the gift be something I get to use daily than something that will sit on a shelf. Main tasks would be vegetable prep, carrots being the hardest thing it will see. It would be replacing a Richmond Addict 2 AEBL 240mm. I use a pinch grip and cutting motion is about even between push cutting and gentle rocking (sort of a slicing/rocking hybrid, if that makes any sense). As far as what characteristics/improvements I'd like, I want something very nimble and precise, somewhere between laser and medium in terms of weight. Steel-wise, I'd like something easy to sharpen that will hold a steep edge for at least a week or two between sharpening with just a honing or stropping at the beginning of a shift.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
We use synthetic boards at work. I do sharpen my knives at home one a Bestor 1200 and Suehiro Rika 5000 and have an Idahone ceramic rod at work. I'll also probably get a strop setup some time in the near future. I'd rate my sharpening ability as good but not great.

The three knives I've been considering the most at the moment are the Masamoto KS, the profile of which I am very attracted to, the Masakage Shimo, and the Gesshin Kagekiyo Blue #1. Love to hear any other options you can think of though.


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## greasedbullet (Jan 16, 2014)

Shoot. I'm still looking for my dream gyuto too.

White steel like the masamoto tends to not have great edge retention. If you sharpen every day or so then that is not a big deal. Konosuke fujiyama in blue 2 or Watanabe if you can find one, Also a Marko Tsourkan if you could find one.


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## JohnnyChance (Jan 16, 2014)

Of the three you mentioned, I would vote Kagekiyo by a mile.


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## Von blewitt (Jan 16, 2014)

You can get a Watanabe honyaki blue #2 for around $600


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## greasedbullet (Jan 16, 2014)

Where? I want one?


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## Von blewitt (Jan 16, 2014)

From him, 3 week turn around.... I ordered one yesterday


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## Nmko (Jan 16, 2014)

Von blewitt said:


> From him, 3 week turn around.... I ordered one yesterday



Pics when it comes in! This has been on my mind for awhile now, just waiting to pull the trigger - maybe after your review Huw, i might succumb to it...


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## masibu (Jan 16, 2014)

I bought a watanabe recently and I certainly wouldn't call it an agile knife at any stretch. Im actually in the middle of changing the geometry and thinning it out. Its been a major ***** unfortunately. It certainly takes a sharp edge reasonably quickly and holds it but I wouldn't recommend it if you don't like beastly knives. I own a masamoto ks and enjoy the profile as well. Nothing i own seems to get as sharp as it can, although I did thin it out a bit before I got the maximum performance I feel I can get from it. It requires touching up frequently which isn't really ideal for an all rounder like a gyuto imo (although its certainly pleasant to use). 

I looked at the masakage in aogami super for a while. I've never used it but it should hold a decent edge for a while, depending on how acute you like your edges. I sharpen up a hiromoto on the rika for a guy at work and it seems to work a charm. The masakage I imagine would be fairly similar bit require less work to get it singing. I bought the watanabe thinking it would be a good compromise between ultimate edge taking of white and the durability of aogami super. 

All that aside, is there a reason you don't want a clad knife? I used to think they were a little numb feeling, but it certainly keeps things within a reasonable price range. Id love to try a honyaki blue gyuto but it's just too expensive and not justified for my uses.


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## greasedbullet (Jan 16, 2014)

He listed a couple clad knives as potential purchases. For example the kagekio. I think he just doesn't want it to be stainless clad. I am not sure though.


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## Toft (Jan 16, 2014)

Yeah, just not stainless clad.


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## Chuckles (Jan 16, 2014)

+1 for Konosuke Fujiyama in blue steel. Based on what you currently have I think the Kagekiyo would be a laser for you for sure. I would be scared off by how thin they are at the tip for use in a commercial kitchen. 

To be honest I don't think you have to spend $600 to be blown away if you are coming from an Addict in AEB-L.


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## banjo1071 (Jan 16, 2014)

Hi 
For 600 you could get a truly unique koraat-gyuto. Made of custom cast steel, not some industrial production steel like aogami....This guy composes the steel after your requirments and casts it himself. No stockremoval or such thing. I own two of his knives and they are truly magical, a true artist..Checkout his website:http://www.koraat-knives.at/

Greets
Benjamin


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## CoqaVin (Jan 16, 2014)

Kagekiyo if you have that cash wish I could get one


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## cclin (Jan 16, 2014)

Masamoto KS: good profile & grind, medium weight. very easy to sharpen; however, I need to touch up mine everyday to keep laser sharp edge I like.
Watanabe pro: great workhorse gyuto. easy to sharpen, very good edge retention! However, not nimble and precise knife you're looking for......
Gesshin Kagekiyo : I never use one....however, you pay lots of money for Lacquer Handle/Saya & Lacquer is very easy to scratch. not sure it's good choice for professional kitchen use?? I'm also consider about narrow blade height ~45mm
Konosuke Fujiyama blue#2 seems like fit your need very well!! :2cents:


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## dannynyc (Jan 16, 2014)

Shigefusa?


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## bkultra (Jan 16, 2014)

dannynyc said:


> Shigefusa?



In a pro kitchen it might be a bit too reactive.


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## cheflarge (Jan 16, 2014)

Kagekiyo..... at the very least call Jon @ JKI and ask for his suggestions. He is knowledgeable beyond belief and extremelly helpful. :my2cents:


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## bear1889 (Jan 16, 2014)

Mizuno Tanrenjo Akitada Hontanren Blue 2 clad with soft iron


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## mhlee (Jan 16, 2014)

greasedbullet said:


> White steel like the masamoto tends to not have great edge retention.



Masamoto white steel does not have good edge retention. However, the white steel of a Gesshin Ginga has very good edge retention.


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## brainsausage (Jan 16, 2014)

bkultra said:


> In a pro kitchen it might be a bit too reactive.


 
I use mine in a pro kitchen with no reactivity problems. Just need to set the patina. Finding one is a whole other matter...


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## rogue108 (Jan 16, 2014)

If you hurry there is beautiful Masamoto KS 240 for sale in the Buy/Sell/Trade section.


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## labor of love (Jan 16, 2014)

if youve been using a richmond addict then i suggest you look into the kochi knives that jon sells at jki. they both have similar blade heights, if you want to stick with using tall knives. also consider takeda. theyre usually really tall too, and very good for vegetable prep.
ive also used shigefusa and mizuno gyutos in pro kitchens and i think either would be suitable for what youre looking for, especially considering your cutting motion. but rule out masamoto now if you still do a little rock chopping. it feels really uncomfortable when you try and cut that way using a masa ks.
i suppose looking into heiji knives wouldnt hurt either.


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## Toft (Jan 17, 2014)

Hmmm, the lacquer scratching on the Kagekiyo would be worrisome and it definitely was on the very upper range of acceptable price.

The Konosuke Fujiyama sounds great but I can't seem to find anywhere that actually has it in stock. Any idea how often they come back on the market?

The shigefusa and mizuno seem to be available in a couple different places. Any thoughts on differences between the two?

I'd also looked at the Takeda Classic Sasanoha a bit. The shape seems really interesting, though perhaps counterproductive for my needs?

Lastly, even though it's not carbon, I've heard a lot of good things about the Suisin Inox Honyaki. Having sharpened and cut with both stainless and carbon, I'm really preferring the latter atm, but maybe that's just because I haven't used a really great stainless before.

Thanks for all the advice so far, very appreciated.


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 17, 2014)

I think the Gesshin Heiji would be a good fit.Great looking knife,killer grind.Carbon Wa-Gyuto.


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## Toft (Jan 17, 2014)

That is indeed a really cool looking knife. On the brand page it describes the carbon steel as being similar to white #1 and that "they require a bit more skill and finesse to be used and cared for effectively." Something I should be concerned about or no?


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## labor of love (Jan 18, 2014)

Toft said:


> That is indeed a really cool looking knife. On the brand page it describes the carbon steel as being similar to white #1 and that "they require a bit more skill and finesse to be used and cared for effectively." Something I should be concerned about or no?



which knife are you refering to?


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## Keith Sinclair (Jan 18, 2014)

Well you always should protect your edges.I would aways put a simple edge guard on my carbons at work so the edge is protected when not in use even briefly.I don't have one though have though about pulling the trigger more than once.With the looks of the grind I imagine it would cut very well.

There are a few Heiji owners on this forum.


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## cclin (Jan 18, 2014)

labor of love said:


> which knife are you refering to?



he is talking about Heiji carbon.... 

@Toft, just crossed my mind that you should also consider Carter's kurouchi & Delbert Ealy's O1


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## Toft (Jan 20, 2014)

Alright, from what's available to me right now, I have it down to either Gesshin Ajikataya Kurouchi (recommended by Jon), Gesshin Heiji, or Suisin Inox Honyaki. Any final thoughts?


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## labor of love (Jan 20, 2014)

id rule out heiji for now. i havent used one yet, but from the feedback ive read on this forum they involve some pretty good sharpening skills to maintain. which isnt a bad thing, heiji is certainly on my short list of knives to own/try soon. but for now you may want to get something else. you should perhaps try the search option on this forum and look for some old threads regarding heiji. particularly the ones where Edipis and others detail how they are sharpened and maintained.


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## masibu (Jan 20, 2014)

labor of love said:


> if youve been using a richmond addict then i suggest you look into the kochi knives that jon sells at jki. they both have similar blade heights, if you want to stick with using tall knives. also consider takeda. theyre usually really tall too, and very good for vegetable prep.
> ive also used shigefusa and mizuno gyutos in pro kitchens and i think either would be suitable for what youre looking for, especially considering your cutting motion. but rule out masamoto now if you still do a little rock chopping. it feels really uncomfortable when you try and cut that way using a masa ks.
> i suppose looking into heiji knives wouldnt hurt either.



definitely agree on the ks being incredibly uncomfortable for rocking




Toft said:


> Alright, from what's available to me right now, I have it down to either Gesshin Ajikataya Kurouchi (recommended by Jon), Gesshin Heiji, or Suisin Inox Honyaki. Any final thoughts?



I use an Inox honyaki on occasion myself, although it's been sitting in it's saya for a little while as I bought a Watanabe about a month ago. It is certainly laser thin and just keeps on going. If you don't like sharpening at all, it won't care that much. It is fairly tough stuff. It doesn't take a keen edge like any carbon knives, but that certainly doesn't hold it back. I quite like the profile of the knife too. I was keeping it tuned up with my suehiro rika and it cuts quite aggressively, great for general use that a gyuto is primarily used for I guess. I let an apprentice at work borrow it and within 10 minutes he had cut himself, not being used to a sharp, nimble knife I guess. I'm still undecided about what edge I want to run on it..I was going to thin it out even more but it's probably not necessary. 

If you're considering stainless knives as well now, why not consider something semi-stainless like the Konosuke HD or something? You can get it slightly sharper and get it there slightly easier than the suisin and the edge retention is definitely good enough. I believe it's also less expensive. I used a "funayaki" shaped 240 HD for a while and loved it, but I found it to be a little short on occasion for me. I'm a 270 kinda guy with prep and a 210 for service. I find 240 knives for me aren't as good as either anymore. It's a knife I regret selling, but hey, I wanted to try other things. If I had my time again, I probably would have waited for a 270 HD to come back into stock instead of buying the Suisin (but I had always wanted to buy a Suisin anyway so who knows).


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## longhorn (Jan 20, 2014)

+1 to Semi-stainless and the Konosuke HD. I have a 240 gyuto from the original HD line before the whole funayuki/HD2 versions. I really love the steel and the knife, however I also own a Masamoto KS and find it to also be a joy to use. Another good option for you may be a KS in stainless, which is available through Korin I believe.


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## WiscoNole (Jan 21, 2014)

Chuckles said:


> +1 for Konosuke Fujiyama in blue steel.



I support this notion as well. I have the funayuki gyuto and it is a fantastic knife in all aspects.


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## Toft (Jan 21, 2014)

I think the Kono HD would be a little too light for what I want.

I did however stumble on this Fujiyama Blue #1 Kurouchi Tsuchime. It's either that or the Ajikataya right now, but unless there's some downside to it I'm overlooking the Fujiyama seems like the winner.


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## Chuckles (Jan 21, 2014)

That particular Kono you linked is 66 HRC. That is quite a bit harder than the 62 HRC that Fujiyamas are usually hardened to. The result of this will be increased edge retention with increased brittleness being the trade off. Looks like a really cool knife.


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## labor of love (Jan 21, 2014)

it is a cool looking knife. have you considered mizuno? theyre priced about the same as the kono youre looking at.


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## Toft (Jan 21, 2014)

I have considered Mizuno, yes. The talk of the iron cladding being super reactive has put me off of them some, as well as the fact that aesthetically they don't quite get me going like some others.

So would I be potentially running into chipping issues with that Kono then due to the hardness? Would it be a lot harder to sharpen?


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## labor of love (Jan 21, 2014)

there could be potential issues with that knife being hardened to hrc 66. but i dunno. perhaps contact the retailer. it looks like a good deal.


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## masibu (Jan 21, 2014)

Forget everything I said earlier-- now I want that particular knife. Didn't know it even existed!


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## toddnmd (Jan 21, 2014)

masibu said:


> Forget everything I said earlier-- now I want that particular knife. Didn't know it even existed!



+1


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## Toft (Jan 22, 2014)

Welp, the Konosuke's been ordered! Thanks again to everybody for your help and advice, much appreciated.


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## masibu (Jan 23, 2014)

Let us all know how you find it, pics and all! Like.. mass information. I'm pretty interested in this knife now, especially after only having heard positive things about konosuke knives previously and enjoying the hd I had.


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