# noob question: cooking with stainless steel pan



## ynot1985 (Jun 28, 2017)

Hi,

I am not a chef by profession and I was wondering how to cook on stainless steel pan without it sticking like crazy.

I see on tv shows and in books that most chefs cook with stainless equipment.

I went and brought myself an all-clad pan but it always sticks.

are there any tricks to make it non stick?

Thanks


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## schanop (Jun 28, 2017)

I am not a chef either, but technique wise is to preheat the pan, then add oil, swirl, then food.


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## malexthekid (Jun 28, 2017)

schanop said:


> I am not a chef either, but technique wise is to preheat the pan, then add oil, swirl, then food.



I suggest this. I am just too impatient to preheat pan... I also suck at preheating to the right temp... I always get chicken sticking because I get it too hot (at least that is my theory on it)...


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## Nemo (Jun 28, 2017)

I'm not a chef either. I became interested in this about a year and a half ago because I wanted to eliminate non-stick cookware.

My reading around this problem is that you need the pan to be hot enough so that the water in the bottom of the food (the part close to the pan) vaporises instantly, forming a cushion of steam and preventing sticking. By the time the steam has dissipated (maybe a second?), the food is sealed.

I use a little oil in the pan, but I guess you could put it on the food instead. You then need to get the pan very hot to put your food in (then reduce the heat if required). Get it hot again before you turn the food over.

It's quite different to cooking in a non-stick pan (where you shouldn't get it very hot or you'll burn the non-stick coating).

I often season the pan if I'm going to fry something that will stick. My understanding is that seasoning is essentially applying a coating of polymerised oil to the pan, which has pretty good non-stick properties. It can also be washed off with detergent, making cleanup easier if you do burn something. I heat just enough oil (I use rice bran oil because of the high smoke point but others suggest using a polyunsaturated oil like sunflower because it polymerises more readily) to cover the inside of the pan in a thin layer when hot. Just before it smokes, you will smell it polymerising. I keep the temp at that point (just below smoking, so you can smell the polymerisation) for a couple of minutes, then cool and wipe excess oil off. If you wash the pan in detergent, the seasoning will be removed. For my carbon pans, I just wash in hot water then dry by heating to smoking on the stove. I do often wash the seasoning off my stainless pans (so I essentially use a seasoning as a disposable seasoning I guess), but I have read of many who don't.


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## WildBoar (Jun 28, 2017)

One other consideration is to not move the meat until it has browned on the side in contact with the pan. Meat that sticks/ welds itself to the pan right when you lay it in often releases pretty easily once it has browned.


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## milkbaby (Jun 28, 2017)

WildBoar said:


> One other consideration is to not move the meat until it has browned on the side in contact with the pan. Meat that sticks/ welds itself to the pan right when you lay it in often releases pretty easily once it has browned.



This is 95% of the strategy to cooking in stainless IMHO. 

I preheat the pan until droplets of water ball up and roll around like marbles or balls of mercury. That's the leidenfrost effect. Then I add my oil and let it heat until shimmery. Then whatever food that's being cooked has to heat until browned so it will release, whether that's meat or potatoes.

I like stainless because it can be heated higher than nonstick and produce nice fond, yet is relatively carefree compared to cast iron. I can let stainless pans soak in water for awhile, something I'm loath to do with cast iron for fear of rust.


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## Lars (Jun 29, 2017)

When it works for me I love my stainless pans more than any other. When I burn food or it stick I hate myself, but still love the pans. 

Lars


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## TurboScooter (Jun 29, 2017)

I am not a chef, but I preheat until you get the Leidenfrost effect if you drop some water into the pan - the water will ball up and slide around the pan. Once the pan hits this stage, add oil, wait a touch so the oil heats up, then add food.

It's pretty much non stick - I can slide food around from the instant it hits the pan.


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## rahimlee54 (Jun 30, 2017)

Heat the pan up as hot as you want. Prep the food. Pour oil in, swirl, drop food in immediately and adjust heat. Works everytime, you must have the food ready to go in after the oil is added otherwise the oil will burn and turn acrid.

Jared


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## frog13 (Jun 30, 2017)

I'll chime in guys, actually you want to test with water and have it just quickly evaporate, if you reach the point of Leidenfrost effect you are too hot, cool your pan a bit. Add just enough oil to coat the bottom of the pan, the higher the smoke point of the oil the better. We use avocado oil or clarified butter. That will heat quickly and you will see striations in the oil from the heat. If it smokes you went too hot. Add your protein, let it cook. If it does not release when you want it to, remove the pan from the heat for a minute or so, check it by moving it a bit, it will soon release. Turn your heat back up, flip to the other side and finish cooking.


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## malexthekid (Jun 30, 2017)

Is it only me that frog13's video doesn't work for?

PS thanks for the info


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## frog13 (Jun 30, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> Is it only me that frog13's video doesn't work for?
> 
> PS thanks for the info



Not sure why that link didn't work, I'll try to find it in a different place.


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## crockerculinary (Jun 30, 2017)

to chime in on a couple points-
1) butter. butter really aids in not sticking more than any other fat or oil option. even a small dot added to regular cooking oil really helps.
2) dryness of ingredients. in terms of meat and fish, you should dry the surface as much as possible before hitting the pan. the further you are willing to go with this the better the result. (for example letting a roast air dry in your fridge overnight)
3) leave it alone. let the underside crisp up undisturbed for a couple of minutes and you should be able to pull it away from the pan cleanly. (alternately dont leave it alone, keep it moving constantly, as in the case of stir fry or sautee)
4) a lot of people mention the hot enough for the oil to smoke and thats a good rule of thumb cause it works, but in most cases it just needs to be hot enough to fry, instead of sweat or steam.
so the main points are:
pan should be hot, but not hot enough to burn, there should be enough oil/fat to do the job, best is butter, the ingredient should be dry, and preferably well salted, then leave it alone long enough, and that should do it.

* you can flash "season" a stainless pan as mentioned earlier. i do it by getting it screaming hot, and adding a dot of oil and rubbing it in with a towel a few times like youre polishing it up. not really recommended but it works.


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## cheflivengood (Jun 30, 2017)

as stated smoke is important, you have to understand the heat of your stove/frenchtop/induction. You can very easily drop fish or whatever into a smoking pan and turn the heat off and once it starts cooling down you can find your sweet spot. I would blast my pans on a open burner, add oil (lots of smoke), swirl, place fish in and actually wipe the pan with the fish once around the perimeter. Id then transfer the pan to the very front edge of my french top and let it sear low and slow before the ticket was fired, once fired id flip, baste baste baste, pull and fluer de sel.

ALWAYS temper your protien meat or fish to room temp, which will help with drying the surface, and how fast it cooks. Only salt right before cooking. Describing this is much harder than doing it haha.


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## malexthekid (Jun 30, 2017)

cheflivengood said:


> as stated smoke is important, you have to understand the heat of your stove/frenchtop/induction. You can very easily drop fish or whatever into a smoking pan and turn the heat off and once it starts cooling down you can find your sweet spot. I would blast my pans on a open burner, add oil (lots of smoke), swirl, place fish in and actually wipe the pan with the fish once around the perimeter. Id then transfer the pan to the very front edge of my french top and let it sear low and slow before the ticket was fired, once fired id flip, baste baste baste, pull and fluer de sel.
> 
> ALWAYS temper your protien meat or fish to room temp, which will help with drying the surface, and how fast it cooks. Only salt right before cooking. Describing this is much harder than doing it haha.



New video for you me thinks &#128512;&#128512;.

PS on a totally different topic ( sort of) loved the Instagram live the other day.


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## cheflivengood (Jun 30, 2017)

malexthekid said:


> New video for you me thinks &#128512;&#128512;.
> 
> PS on a totally different topic ( sort of) loved the Instagram live the other day.



Nice I'm playing around with it, I am getting some better cameras and stuff soon. I wish I had the fish, stainless pan, and french eye to do a video but alas my Michelin days are a few years behind me...for now.


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## KimBronnum (Jun 30, 2017)

I scrub my stainless pan with a thing I don't know what is called in English &#128512; It is like a soft ball/sponge made from what feeds like thin steel thread made in curls. It may be one long thread curling and curling the curls together again into a small handfull in size. (Hope it makes sence). When ever things stick it is time for scrubbing the pan really good after washing it in soap and wather. After this the pan is usually ok again. This, preheating as above ang putting oil on the meat works for me. 
- Kim


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## chinacats (Jun 30, 2017)

KimBronnum said:


> I scrub my stainless pan with a thing I don't know what is called in English &#128512; It is like a soft ball/sponge made from what feeds like thin steel thread made in curls. It may be one long thread curling and curling the curls together again into a small handfull in size. (Hope it makes sence). When ever things stick it is time for scrubbing the pan really good after washing it in soap and wather. After this the pan is usually ok again. This, preheating as above ang putting oil on the meat works for me.
> - Kim



I believe it's called steel wool here in the states. I use it on carbon pans, cast iron and even knives when the patina is a little too close to rust.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 1, 2017)

stainless is very prone to sticking. A carbon steel WOK is very non stick after properly seasoned. Also I have 2 MATFER BOURGEAT 
(of France) carbon steel saute pans that are good and fairly slick . But my 12" LODGE cast iron skillet is the most non stick.

*disclaimer : Teflon or copper non stick coatings are probably more non stick but I don't believe in owning or using them.*


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## Nemo (Jul 1, 2017)

WOK-a-holic said:


> stainless is very prone to sticking. A carbon steel WOK is very non stick after properly seasoned. Also I have 2 MATFER BOURGEAT
> (of France) carbon steel saute pans that are good and fairly slick . But my 12" LODGE cast iron skillet is the most non stick.
> 
> *disclaimer : Teflon or copper non stick coatings are probably more non stick but I don't believe in owning or using them.*



+1.

I also don't use Teflon type pans. I'm finding that I always reach for my carbon steel pans now.

I think a well seasoned carbon pan is at least as non stick as teflon.


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## Wdestate (Jul 1, 2017)

pretty much everything important was mentioned here already. i work professionally as a chef and some of the key things that really helped me when i started on a line with stainless pans was like crockerculinary stated make sure your ingredients are dry, very dry. for water laden foods i will salt and let stand for 15 min give or take size of protein etc etc and let the salt pull extra water out (also happens to pull out proteins that will promote browning), blot dry with paper towel. As also stated get your pan hot, very hot, people have stated it can get too hot, which is true, but this is only the case in my experience if you hit the smoke point and thats the only reason its to hot because when you see the oil smoking you are breaking down the oils composition. Canola and corn oil are very cheap and have good smoke points, but i personally bring it as close to smoking as i can before searing, after contact with the pan just dial back your heat a bit so you dont raise the temp pass the smoking point and get off oil flavors as you sear, this is where i would add addtional fats/flavors (butter so it will brown/flavor/promote browning but wont burn since ur heats dialed back now). Dont touch stuff alot, let it do its thing, if your pan was hot and the food was dry, it will release when its browned. also i would suggest getting yourself a simple cast iron pan, they are cheap like 12$ hell you can find them for like 2 bucks at a flea market alot of time. Season it up and use that for more fickle stuff. I have been cooking professionally for a long time.. you will still never see me try to do an omelette or sunny side up eggs in stainless and i have tried.. a lot. :surrendar:

1.be hot
2. be dry
3. dont touch
4. buy a cast iron!


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## crockerculinary (Jul 1, 2017)

one day i will have a kitchen that runs on cast iron pans. simply the best at this issue. 

getting a little far flung from the question but on the topic of smoking oil the facts are that the oil, once heated significantly, starts breaking down and producing unwanted flavors and undesirable chemical reactions and properties, including carcinogens.

im no scientist, but it seems smoke=burning=bad stuff formation.

from what i understand, one of those properties is actually a reduction in its ability to prevent sticking. 

unfortunately, this is just like grilling, something we love (cooking at high temperatures with a high rate of browning and even burning in the case of grilling) is now bad for us.

i wonder if some of these bad compounds arent actually responsible for some of the flavor qualities we love, for example in wok cooking. ive worked around proper wok stations quite a bit, and there is some quality to those dishes you just cant get without a wok, and the extreme heat may actually be interacting on a chemical level that we just couldnt get on a stovetop. maybe its the acreolin that makes it taste right?

heres a research paper i just found on the subject of emissions associated with deep frying, comparing emissions of various oils- not exactly the same, but still relevant. i havent had the time or intelligence level to understand it all, but here is a sample

"This experimental &#64257;nding is very important and leads us to the following conclusion: the temperature of any oil used for deep-fry-ing operations should be established below its smoke point, because otherwise the emission of potentially toxic compounds will increase signi&#64257;cantly."

"The smoke point is the temperature at which oil begins to smoke continuously and can be seen as bluish smoke. This smokeis an indication of chemical breakdown of the fat to glycerol andfree-fatty acids (FFA). The glycerol is then further broken downto acrolein (2-propenal), which is one of the main components of the bluish smoke. "

"Aldehydes, ketones, alcohols, dienes and acids, commonly formed during edible oil degradation, create unpleasant &#64258;avour, re-duce the shelf-life of edible oils, and may further cause health problems "

"Volatile aldehyde emission from all four oils increased graduall with temperature until they reached their smoke point (Tables 3and 4); from this point, emission increased more sharply "

Total concentrations of aldehydes, hydrocarbons, alcohols and ketones (Fig. 3) increased with increasing frying tem-peratures. The dependence of volatile emissions with temperature was more evident for alkanals and hydrocarbons. Therefore, the &#64257;rst recommendation is to use the lowest possible temperature for reaching the desired cooking and technological effects during deep-frying operations."

"The total amounts of volatile compounds present in the fumes of cooking oils were positively correlated with the frying tempera-ture."

https://www.researchgate.net/public...f_volatile_aldehydes_from_heated_cooking_oils


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 1, 2017)

Nemo said:


> +1.
> 
> I also don't use Teflon type pans. I'm finding that I always reach for my carbon steel pans now.
> 
> I think a well seasoned carbon pan is at least as non stick as teflon.



About 10 years ago I threw all myTeflon and aluminum pans in the trash can. A week after I met my wife I threw all of her non-stick crap away,she protested at first but thanks me now . we both don't regret it.
This opened me up to a whole new world of cookware. I first fell in love with cast iron 
(LODGE and GRISWOLD brands ). Then I quickly learned of carbon steel pans .Finally leading me to the ultimate category of cookware(IMO ), the traditional round bottom Chinese Wok made of carbon steel.......transforming me into a lifetime WOK-A-HOLIC :biggrin:


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## Nemo (Jul 1, 2017)

Yeah I love my carbon steel wok. Bought it for 5 bucks at an asian grocer about 20 years ago. Very versatile.


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 1, 2017)

CROCKERCULINARY ,
in regards to cooking oil, For deep frying or high-heat cooking in WOK I only use highly refined PEANUT OIL. it has a very high smoke point. 

Don't quote me on it but ,I have read that highly refined peanut oil is okay for people with peanut allergies. because all of allergens are removed during refining process. I don't have any peanut allergies so I don't worry about this aspect.

for cooking eggs meat or vegetables in cast iron or carbon steel pan I usually use extra virgin olive oil and sometimes butter.

If I could find some real pork lard ,That is not hydrogenated or contains added preservatives and anti foaming agents. I would use that for deep frying and for some Mexican food. 

whenever I have trimmings from chicken ,I render the fat and use as lard substitute. but I never get a large enough quantity to use for deep frying


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## WOK-a-holic (Jul 1, 2017)

Nemo said:


> Yeah I love my carbon steel wok. Bought it for 5 bucks at an asian grocer about 20 years ago. Very versatile.



I bought a jet burner stove off of Amazon, made by a company called HUAMING model is h-205 Fast stove. $90 I think they advertise it is 78,000 BTUs, regardless of actual rating this stove has 104 jets and will throw a 2-1/2 foot flame that has the heat of 1000 dragon's breath .
I was and am still very impressed with it makes all the difference when cooking in a wok. works well with my small 14-inch all the way up to my 22 inch Wok.

*disclaimer outdoor use ONLY ,or you probably will burn down your house and /or get carbon monoxide poisoning!*


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## larrybard (Jul 1, 2017)

chinacats said:


> I believe it's called steel wool here in the states. I use it on carbon pans, cast iron and even knives when the patina is a little too close to rust.



I may be mistaken, but I don't think Kim was referring to the sort of "steel wool" pads commonly found in the U.S. for home use (e.g., Brill or SOS scouring pads), but rather the somewhat different stainless steel balls that are also used for scrubbing pans, e.g.: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0716PF6HQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Nemo (Jul 2, 2017)

WOK-a-holic said:


> I bought a jet burner stove off of Amazon, made by a company called HUAMING model is h-205 Fast stove. $90 I think they advertise it is 78,000 BTUs, regardless of actual rating this stove has 104 jets and will throw a 2-1/2 foot flame that has the heat of 1000 dragon's breath .
> I was and am still very impressed with it makes all the difference when cooking in a wok. works well with my small 14-inch all the way up to my 22 inch Wok.
> 
> *disclaimer outdoor use ONLY ,or you probably will burn down your house and /or get carbon monoxide poisoning!*



Wow, sounds like intense heat.

I really noticed that when we went from natural gas to bottled gas (LPG) that the heat delivered by the wok burner increased a lot, which is quite helpful in some situations.


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## chinacats (Jul 2, 2017)

larrybard said:


> I may be mistaken, but I don't think Kim was referring to the sort of "steel wool" pads commonly found in the U.S. for home use (e.g., Brill or SOS scouring pads), but rather the somewhat different stainless steel balls that are also used for scrubbing pans, e.g.: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0716PF6HQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



Sorry, I wasn't referring to brillo or sos pads myself. I meant steel wool as in 0000 steel wool.


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## KimBronnum (Jul 2, 2017)

Thanks guys for helping [emoji2] 
LarryB you are right. It is stainless and different from steel wool. Made for kitchen use. Just don't know what it is called &#128579;


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## malexthekid (Jul 2, 2017)

A stainless steel scourer


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