# Is stropping necessary after a finisher?



## khashy

So I use one of the three finishers I have:

ohira suita renge
Nakayama suita
Kitayama

I was wondering whether stroping after using one of the above is necessary? I mean is there any benefit?


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## Benuser

Do you mean stropping on your finest stone or on leather?


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## khashy

Benuser said:


> Do you mean stropping on your finest stone or on leather?



I have a cheapo leather strop that I do not use.

Right now, the last thing on do on the finishers is the deburring strokes


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## Mucho Bocho

Khashy, you're doing right. That what I do I've got lots of strops and the do add keeness to the edge but if your technique is good enough on the stones, you should have built a good enough edge. The sharpness that the strop will give will be lost almost immediately upon a cutting on the board.


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## Benuser

khashy said:


> I have a cheapo leather strop that I do not use.
> 
> Right now, the last thing on do on the finishers is the deburring strokes



You should be fine after deburring 
Some add a few very light edge trailing strokes on the stone after that, though. 
Leather stropping isn't necessary, but may be fun. And is likely to cause rounding of your crisp edge as well.


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## khashy

Thank you both, glad I don't have to buy a strop!

Is there any benefit in using a newspaper as strop/deburrer at the very end? Or am I just going to round my nice edge?


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## Wdestate

i dont think you "need" a strop, i like having a leather one around though to run my knife over real quick at the end to just catch any remaining burr if there is any. i also like to strop real fast between stone progressions. just my 2c.


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## khashy

Wdestate said:


> i dont think you "need" a strop, i like having a leather one around though to run my knife over real quick at the end to just catch any remaining burr if there is any. i also like to strop real fast between stone progressions. just my 2c.



Cool. What is the benefit of the strop between progressions?


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## KimBronnum

I usually do two or three times stropping motions on my finisher at the end with carbons. On stainless the burr is more resilient, so I usually also strop these on leather a few times. Be aware not to overstrop a kitchen knife. A few times on each side will do. Alternatively you can pull the edge ("cut") the end corner of some soft wood or cork. And do a few passes on the finisher at the end of the sharpening. The purpose is bur removal. 
- Kim


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## Matus

I would naively assume that a high quality strop is relevant for razors but not for knives. Strop can also be used to finish deburring or to revive the edge a few times before sharpening on stones. But in that case I would strop on balsa or leather loaded with some sort of diamond paste, not just a pure leather.


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## K813zra

I'm not big on strops per se. I do strop on stones, though. As others have mentioned I will end with a few stropping motions on my stone. That is how I maintain my edge as well. I use my Aizu in place of a strop. So I guess it isn't that I don't strop but rather I don't use an extra medium to do so. 

Now on cheap stainless or folders I typically will jump from a coarse stone to a loaded strop to ensure the burr in gone and call it a day. In the kitchen, not so much.


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## Wdestate

khashy said:


> Cool. What is the benefit of the strop between progressions?



personal preference i guess, i feel it just gives me cleaner results, like i get to start the next part of my progression on a cleaner palate. im talking literally a pass or two each side just to snag any burr that might have formed


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## khashy

Thanks to all. Answers my question completely


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## unprofessional_chef

I use a compound loaded strop as quick way to hone the edge. Kinda like the way people use a steel. In my experience steels are not very precise because it will roll the edge. Stropping can save you time so you don't have to use the stones every time.


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## WOK-a-holic

I use a king 1,000 Grit .Then go straight to a King 6,000 Grit(splash and go). wash . Then I do one single pass from heel to toe on edge of wood chopping block. I have skipped the last step before and haven't noticed a difference in sharpness. when I make that single pass on edge of chopping block,there is a small amount of charcoal gray metal particles left behind.
so it's doing something .I'm just not sure what, polishing the edge I hope?

The results I have been able to achieve are excellent. After I use this sharpening technique, my knife is sharper than a razor blade right out of the box.

Is a leather strop necessary?. I'm not sure. I've never used one.
Am I doing it right or missing something? 

suggestions please


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## ThEoRy

khashy said:


> Thanks to all. Answers my question completely



Not so fast! :cool2: I'm going to disagree with what looks like quite a few people. I feel stropping is absolutely necessary as a final step in the progression. Proper stropping is what took my sharpening game from here (pointing at an imaginary line above my head) to here (pointing at a much higher imaginary line). On rock hard felt it's super simple, safe and effective. It pulls off any possible remaining burr or wire edge and I don't think I've ever rounded an edge on felt. Ever. Also I have several felt pads loaded with different compounds to produce different results like slick or toothy. To me, sharpening without stropping is leaving the job unfinished. It's like sending out the entrees without the sauce and garnish.


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## K813zra

ThEoRy said:


> Not so fast! :cool2: I'm going to disagree with what looks like quite a few people. I feel stropping is absolutely necessary as a final step in the progression. Proper stropping is what took my sharpening game from here (pointing at an imaginary line above my head) to here (pointing at a much higher imaginary line). On rock hard felt it's super simple, safe and effective. It pulls off any possible remaining burr or wire edge and I don't think I've ever rounded an edge on felt. Ever. Also I have several felt pads loaded with different compounds to produce different results like slick or toothy. To me, sharpening without stropping is leaving the job unfinished. It's like sending out the entrees without the sauce and garnish.



Blasphemy, that should be dried mud you are using.


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## Dave Martell

ThEoRy said:


> Not so fast! :cool2: I'm going to disagree with what looks like quite a few people. I feel stropping is absolutely necessary as a final step in the progression. Proper stropping is what took my sharpening game from here (pointing at an imaginary line above my head) to here (pointing at a much higher imaginary line). On rock hard felt it's super simple, safe and effective. It pulls off any possible remaining burr or wire edge and I don't think I've ever rounded an edge on felt. Ever. Also I have several felt pads loaded with different compounds to produce different results like slick or toothy. To me, sharpening without stropping is leaving the job unfinished. It's like sending out the entrees without the sauce and garnish.




It's the same for me Rick, I agree 100%.


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## Keith Sinclair

Stropping can be with different materials. With good technique edge trailing strokes on a polishing stone will give a fine edge. You asked about Newspaper it works well just a couple measured trailing strokes on a daily newspaper takes off residual burrs. Something about cheap paper & print really works.


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## Nemo

ThEoRy said:


> Not so fast! :cool2: I'm going to disagree with what looks like quite a few people. I feel stropping is absolutely necessary as a final step in the progression. Proper stropping is what took my sharpening game from here (pointing at an imaginary line above my head) to here (pointing at a much higher imaginary line). On rock hard felt it's super simple, safe and effective. It pulls off any possible remaining burr or wire edge and I don't think I've ever rounded an edge on felt. Ever. Also I have several felt pads loaded with different compounds to produce different results like slick or toothy. To me, sharpening without stropping is leaving the job unfinished. It's like sending out the entrees without the sauce and garnish.



Where do you get the hard felt Rick?


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## krx927

ThEoRy said:


> Not so fast! :cool2: I'm going to disagree with what looks like quite a few people. I feel stropping is absolutely necessary as a final step in the progression. Proper stropping is what took my sharpening game from here (pointing at an imaginary line above my head) to here (pointing at a much higher imaginary line). On rock hard felt it's super simple, safe and effective. It pulls off any possible remaining burr or wire edge and I don't think I've ever rounded an edge on felt. Ever. Also I have several felt pads loaded with different compounds to produce different results like slick or toothy. To me, sharpening without stropping is leaving the job unfinished. It's like sending out the entrees without the sauce and garnish.



I also feel this way. I always finish sharpening with a few strokes on felt (mine is not so har unfortunately) just to make sure I remove the last traces of burr (if any). Usually I notice that on my carbons there is no burr left but on stainless or semi stainless it can still be on despite the fact that I do a few stropping moves on the last stone and I run the edge through soft wood.


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## khashy

Right, so I think I can draw one conclusion at least. My cheapo leather strop is not the way to do it regardless


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## zetieum

I usually do not strop. But I run the blade into cork of soft wood to remove bur. If I strop, I do it on bare leather. I built the strop myself: just glue some leather on wood and you are good to go. It costs nothing.


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## Marek07

Totally agree with Rick and Dave. Without stropping the job ain't finished!


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## Ruso

I usually strop on 1mu diamond loaded leather to quickly refesh the edge. As for sharpening goes, I would strop only if I am finishing on a mid grit (1-3K). Usually true for softer german and camp knives. Anythink 5K+ will more often than not be finished on the stone with stroping motions.


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## XooMG

I often strop on old underwear. There's a purist in me that wants to believe I need nothing but a stone, but some stropping is a good way for me to get decent results.


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## K813zra

khashy said:


> Right, so I think I can draw one conclusion at least. My cheapo leather strop is not the way to do it regardless



Can go even cheaper with some newspaper. Here we have what is called the free press, can't beat a free strop...


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

Aren't you extremely dependent on the very last stroke on the finishing stone regarding edge alignment if not stropping on something soft afterwards?


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## mqphoto

Just to know, are everyone here talking from own experience? Or is it something that only works for them? Or they have proof of it?


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## K813zra

It is an interesting topic but the title does ask if it is necessary not if it is useful.  But keep something in mind. I sharpen for myself, I am by no means a pro and have no desire to be. My edges without a strop play to my desires more than with. I am sure there are others that feel the opposite, rather that seems obvious. Were I you, I'd just experiment both ways and see what you prefer. However, use the strop to further your edges not as a crutch. I did the latter for a long time, which is why I moved away from it.

Edit to answer the question above: Any answer I ever give is based solely on my own experience and is superficial as I do no sort of testing beyond cutting up food for my meals. If hearsay I would hope people would state so, I do when I am regurgitating something that I have heard from another.


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## Marek07

K813zra said:


> Can go even cheaper with some newspaper. Here we have what is called the free press, can't beat a free strop...


But if you use a newspaper with fake news perhaps you'll get a false edge...
:wink:


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## K813zra

Marek07 said:


> But if you use a newspaper with fake news perhaps you'll get a false edge...
> :wink:



I am a false chef anyway so it is fitting. Just a simple home cook. 

No news in the free press, though. It is for sale and wanted ads for the local area. Livestock auctions etc.


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## Marek07

K813zra said:


> I am a false chef anyway so it is fitting. Just a simple home cook.
> 
> No news in the free press, though. It is for sale and wanted ads for the local area. Livestock auctions etc.


Ha ha! Misunderstood the expression "free press" - was thinking of freedom of the press I guess. Still, ads and classifieds are pretty good for stropping from what little I've done on newsprint. Far better than the pages with coloured spreads.


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## ThEoRy

khashy said:


> Right, so I think I can draw one conclusion at least. My cheapo leather strop is not the way to do it regardless



At the least, get yourself some balsa wood. Super cheap and effective. See if you can find some stropping compound too. Remember, proper technique is the key.


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## khashy

ThEoRy said:


> At the least, get yourself some balsa wood. Super cheap and effective. See if you can find some stropping compound too. Remember, proper technique is the key.



Yup, got balsa from amazon. Will probably get some stripping compound at some point.

Is there a good video tutorial for balsa stropping?


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## ThEoRy

Well you could watch me sharpen this whole thing or just skip to 5:00 to see the stropping. It's on felt but the technique is the same.

[video=youtube;bMW5vJ4krPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMW5vJ4krPE&t=2s[/video]


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## Keith Sinclair

Marek07 said:


> Ha ha! Misunderstood the expression "free press" - was thinking of freedom of the press I guess. Still, ads and classifieds are pretty good for stropping from what little I've done on newsprint. Far better than the pages with coloured spreads.



The Funnies work too. We are down to one major rag here Craigslist has classified ads almost extinct.


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## StonedEdge

ThEoRy said:


> Not so fast! :cool2: I'm going to disagree with what looks like quite a few people. I feel stropping is absolutely necessary as a final step in the progression. Proper stropping is what took my sharpening game from here (pointing at an imaginary line above my head) to here.



I completely agree. Although it's clear to me that someone who doesn't have a very solid sense of burr formation and burr removal (or isn't able to feel or see when the slightest burr has been raised evenly, and then removed, or isn't able to to do the same with an uneven burr) won't be able to use stropping as a finale stage of sharpening to good effect because of the issues related to having some burr material left behind and/or a wire edge. Although I can see how an experienced sharpener can totally get a crazy nice edge without the use of strops, I find that when used properly they don't give me a sharper edge but rather a more robust, durable edge that lasts longer.


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## mqphoto

Rick, where do you buy hard felt?


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

Balsa + green chromium oxide compound = extremely brutal edge, if the foundation is solid....


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

@keithsaltydog I guess using the craigslist ads on your monitor, you would have to apply a glass honing technique


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## labor of love

ThEoRy said:


> Well you could watch me sharpen this whole thing or just skip to 5:00 to see the stropping. It's on felt but the technique is the same.
> 
> [video=youtube;bMW5vJ4krPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMW5vJ4krPE&t=2s[/video]



What knife are you sharpening?


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## Benuser

StonedEdge said:


> Although I can see how an experienced sharpener can totally get a crazy nice edge without the use of strops, I find that when used properly they don't give me a sharper edge but rather a more robust, durable edge that lasts longer.


Interesting point. I believe the edge lasting longer could be related both to some rounding and a cleaner deburring.


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## labor of love

labor of love said:


> What knife are you sharpening?



Never mind, I figured it out.


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## Dave Martell

StonedEdge said:


> I completely agree. Although it's clear to me that someone who doesn't have a very solid sense of burr formation and burr removal (or isn't able to feel or see when the slightest burr has been raised evenly, and then removed, or isn't able to to do the same with an uneven burr) won't be able to use stropping as a finale stage of sharpening to good effect because of the issues related to having some burr material left behind and/or a wire edge. Although I can see how an experienced sharpener can totally get a crazy nice edge without the use of strops, I find that when used properly they don't give me a sharper edge but rather a more robust, durable edge that lasts longer.




I agree with this too.


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## Nemo

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> Balsa + green chromium oxide compound = extremely brutal edge, if the foundation is solid....



Does anyone know whether the green sticks in the hardware store labelled "SS polishing compound" are CrOx?


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## khashy

ThEoRy said:


> Well you could watch me sharpen this whole thing or just skip to 5:00 to see the stropping. It's on felt but the technique is the same.
> 
> [video=youtube;bMW5vJ4krPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMW5vJ4krPE&t=2s[/video]



Cool, so literally do that same manoeuvre on the wood


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

@Nemo Crox is sold as a polishing paste for razors... the green stuff from the hardware store could be, or could be something else.


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## Nemo

LifeByA1000Cuts said:


> @Nemo Crox is sold as a polishing paste for razors... the green stuff from the hardware store could be, or could be something else.



Yeah, this is what I thought. Thanks.


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## Benuser

Will it last? In kitchen use?


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## Benuser

To the OP: another use of a leather strop is with deburring. Strop one side and deburr the other one, and vice versa. So you push the debris on one side. Makes deburring much faster, especially with coarser stones.


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## StonedEdge

Benuser that's a smart trick! Will try that.


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## Benuser

Thanks. With split leather I use the rough side.


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## cyberbaton

What means deburr the other side technically?


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## Benuser

On one side you strop, so having edge trailing strokes. This will create a burr on the opposite side. All debris get over the edge. Am I clear?


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## khashy

Benuser said:


> To the OP: another use of a leather strop is with deburring. Strop one side and deburr the other one, and vice versa. So you push the debris on one side. Makes deburring much faster, especially with coarser stones.



Cool, thanks, will try this


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## Nemo

Benuser said:


> On one side you strop, so having edge leading strokes. This will create a burr on the opposite side. All debris get over the edge. Am I clear?



Benuser, did you mean edge trailing strokes? Or am I completely confused?

How do you then get rid of that debris?


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## Benuser

Nemo said:


> Benuser, did you mean edge trailing strokes? Or am I completely confused?
> 
> How do you then get rid of that debris?


By longitudinal strokes, along the edge, on the opposite side.


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## Nemo

Benuser said:


> By longitudinal strokes, along the edge, on the opposite side.



That makes sense


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## Benuser

Nemo said:


> Benuser, did you mean edge trailing strokes? Or am I completely confused?
> 
> How do you then get rid of that debris?



You're absolutely right. I meant edge trailing strokes. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Nemo

Is this technique effective stropping on less compressible media (balsa, newspaper or even a fine stone)?


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## Benuser

Never tried, but should work. Used it with convexed soft carbons. And since, with other steels within the progression.


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## Nemo

Thanks


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## labor of love

Where do you guys source your felt? I had a nice one from Dave but some water spots ruined it.


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## tsuriru

I have had some excellent results stropping on 100% cotton paper - the thick heavy kind, found in fine art supply shops. Despite what this might sound like, this is a long lasting material, capable of being fashioned either as a hanging strop or fixed to a flat surface. Im not sure this would be the ascribed stropp for straight razors and shaving - but for kitchen knives it is a great stropping material.

PS: attn. Admins, I wanted to post one or two pictures here, but apparently I can only link to a URL at the moment. What happened to the "upload from computer" option?


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## Salty dog

Dave Martell said:


> It's the same for me Rick, I agree 100%.



I'm in this camp as well.

Speaking of de-burring, does anyone else de-burr after lower grit stones using cardboard or soft wood?


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## krx927

Salty dog said:


> I'm in this camp as well.
> 
> Speaking of de-burring, does anyone else de-burr after lower grit stones using cardboard or soft wood?



I usually deburr after each stone on soft wood.


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## KimBronnum

Me 2 - on soft wood.


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## Nemo

When deburring on soft wood are you describing cutting into the wood trying to drag the fragile burr off or are you describing stropping on a plank of soft wood?

If it's the former, is this significantly different in practice to deburring in cork (genuine question- I'm intereted to know if it's worth trying out over cork, which is what I use now).


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## Nemo

Actually, this just gave me an idea about deburring my chainsaw (I sometimes get tenacious burrs when sharpening it). Cool.


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## LifeByA1000Cuts

Cutting into harder wood can potentially rip an unweakened burr off straight after sharpening (as in, with no or very little flipping) - but it seems very dependent on the steel if you get a sharp or blunt result after that  From my empiric impression, edges successfully created that way (after medium stone, cutting into the corner of a piece of beech, both with and against the grain, keeping the knife as straight as possible, not with brutal force but notching the wood, then doing microbevels and polishing on the finisher - seems to work on hard carbons mostly. If a paper strop can't make it shave after the wood, you ripped something off you shouldn't have ripped off... ) tend to be very very durable - anything a cutting board could destroy has already been destroyed


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## RDalman

I have pretty much quit stropping. I replaced it with finishing super carefully edge leading alternating full strokes on a chosera 10k.


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## Marek07

RDalman said:


> I have pretty much quit stropping. I replaced it with finishing super carefully edge leading alternating full strokes on a chosera 10k.


Hmmm... Been using gentle edge leading, alternating strikes THEN stropping. Perhaps I'm killing the edge by doing so? Time for some empirical experimentation.


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## RDalman

Marek07 said:


> Hmmm... Been using gentle edge leading, alternating strikes THEN stropping. Perhaps I'm killing the edge by doing so? Time for some empirical experimentation.



That's what I was doing before. I think it depends a bit both on knife, stone and pressure. Definately try without stropping. I feel I get a slightly more aggressive edge that lasts a bit longer.


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## labor of love

RDalman said:


> That's what I was doing before. I think it depends a bit both on knife, stone and pressure. Definately try without stropping. I feel I get a slightly more aggressive edge that lasts a bit longer.



Do you do this on other stones? Or just finishing stone?


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## Badgertooth

I get better edges after stropping, if I'm super duper careful using that muchobocho/Cris Anderson method of stone deburring it's always improved by running over denim. I bend my leg and give a few careful swipes and it just adds that clean bite.


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## Salty dog

Nemo said:


> When deburring on soft wood are you describing cutting into the wood trying to drag the fragile burr off or are you describing stropping on a plank of soft wood?
> 
> If it's the former, is this significantly different in practice to deburring in cork (genuine question- I'm intereted to know if it's worth trying out over cork, which is what I use now).



Very lightly dragging the knife through the edge of the cardboard/wood using only the weight of the knife. A cork works as well or better. I only do it after the lower grit stones, 3000 being the last. If I need a quick sharpening I'll go 1000, de-burr, 3000, de-burr then strop. I find it gives be a sturdy edge.


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## RDalman

labor of love said:


> Do you do this on other stones? Or just finishing stone?



I do it with every stone. Super light contact edge leading can reduce and remove the burr pretty well. I go chosera 1k, naniwa ss 5k, chosera 10k.
I never strop on a stone as I reason it raises a burr.


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## zetieum

RDalman said:


> I do it with every stone. Super light contact edge leading can reduce and remove the burr pretty well. I go chosera 1k, naniwa ss 5k, chosera 10k.
> I never strop on a stone as I reason it raises a burr.



I am also doing exactly that. after the finishing stone, I additionally slice into soft wood or more often a wine cork to remove any remaining bur.


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## Marek07

RDalman said:


> I do it with every stone. Super light contact edge leading can reduce and remove the burr pretty well. I go chosera 1k, naniwa ss 5k, chosera 10k.
> I never strop on a stone as I reason it raises a burr.


Happy to hear you do this on all stones Robin. Perhaps I'm doing some things right.


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## RDalman

Marek07 said:


> Happy to hear you do this on all stones Robin. Perhaps I'm doing some things right.



Haha I don't consider myself any authority, going by "empirical experimentation" like you


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## Nemo

Salty dog said:


> Very lightly dragging the knife through the edge of the cardboard/wood using only the weight of the knife. A cork works as well or better. I only do it after the lower grit stones, 3000 being the last. If I need a quick sharpening I'll go 1000, de-burr, 3000, de-burr then strop. I find it gives be a sturdy edge.



Thanks. Sounds like I'm on roughly rhe right track.


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## Dave Martell

Salty dog said:


> Very lightly dragging the knife through the edge of the cardboard/wood using only the weight of the knife. A cork works as well or better. I only do it after the lower grit stones, 3000 being the last. If I need a quick sharpening I'll go 1000, de-burr, 3000, de-burr then strop. I find it gives be a sturdy edge.




That's the ticket right there. I use felt blocks myself but how it works is the same - leaves a cleaner edge to abrade on the next stone.


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## GorillaGrunt

Salty dog said:


> Very lightly dragging the knife through the edge of the cardboard/wood using only the weight of the knife. A cork works as well or better. I only do it after the lower grit stones, 3000 being the last. If I need a quick sharpening I'll go 1000, de-burr, 3000, de-burr then strop. I find it gives be a sturdy edge.



Oops - I've been slicing way too hard into my deburring material. Is that merely wasteful or actually ineffective? I don't feel any burr, but stropping and deburring also deal with burrs too small to see or feel, yes?


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## StonedEdge

To a certain point, yes. Beyond that you'll experience diminishing returns from over-honing or over-cutting into cork or felt or whatever else. With cutting into something soft and self-sealing to remove leftover burrs (either big enough to feel or very very small), doing it with too much pressure can l lead to a slightly duller edge. Of course all steels react differently to sharpening and stropping so some experimentation is required.


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## KJDedge

Stropping on newspaper is so last century.....I strop right on my iPad now.


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## Nemo

KJDedge said:


> Stropping on newspaper is so last century.....I strop right on my iPad now.




LOL

Does a Samsung give a toothier edge?


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## khashy

Okay, so I tried cutting into balse under the knife's own weight during he progression.

This was very helpful, specially when going from 400 and 1000. It actually got a good 3mm piece of wire edge I have gotten.

I then tried the knife without stropping after Kitayama and it cut wel enough. I then stropped a few strokes very lightly on Balsa and it made an absolutely noticeable difference.

In conclusion, thanks to everyone's advice, I'll be lightly cutting into balse inbetween progressions and also a light strop at the very end of the session.

Good times!

Thank you all


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## bennyprofane

This discussion isnt over, yet!


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## Benuser

khashy said:


> Okay, so I tried cutting into balse under the knife's own weight during he progression.
> 
> This was very helpful, specially when going from 400 and 1000. It actually got a good 3mm piece of wire edge I have gotten.
> 
> I then tried the knife without stropping after Kitayama and it cut wel enough. I then stropped a few strokes very lightly on Balsa and it made an absolutely noticeable difference.
> 
> In conclusion, thanks to everyone's advice, I'll be lightly cutting into balse inbetween progressions and also a light strop at the very end of the session.
> 
> Good times!
> 
> Thank you all


Great you got rid of the wire edge, but you better avoid creating one.
Make sure to reach the very edge, verify again and again with marker trick and loupe. Raise a good burr on the coarsest stone. Avoid blindly counting strokes. It is my impression jig systems are more than not likely to create wire edges.
I insist on avoiding them because removing is hard and uncertain and often leaves a damaged edge behind.


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## BobinCA

KJDedge said:


> Stropping on newspaper is so last century.....I strop right on my iPad now.



You get my vote for the best comment of the year on KKF....


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## bennyprofane

Benuser said:


> Great you got rid of the wire edge, but you better avoid creating one.
> Make sure to reach the very edge, verify again and again with marker trick and loupe. Raise a good burr on the coarsest stone. Avoid blindly counting strokes. It is my impression jig systems are more than not likely to create wire edges.
> I insist on avoiding them because removing is hard and uncertain and often leaves a damaged edge behind.



How do you avoid creating one?


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## Benuser

As I said: make sure to reach the very edge. Beware of old micro-bevels. Raise once a good burr. And deburr between the stones.


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## Nemo

Benuser said:


> As I said: make sure to reach the very edge. Beware of old micro-bevels. Raise once a good burr. And deburr between the stones.



When you move to a higher stone after your coarsest stone, are you only aiming to deburr or are you aiming to remove (non burr) metal from the edge? In your sharpening technique, do you usually see a burr with the finer stone(s)? Do you use marker and loupe every time you sharpen or is this what you suggest for beginners and while learning to overcome specific sharpening problems (like inability to cut tomatoes)?


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## Benuser

Nemo said:


> When you move to a higher stone after your coarsest stone, are you only aiming to deburr or are you aiming to remove (non burr) metal from the edge? In your sharpening technique, do you usually see a burr with the finer stone(s)? Do you use marker and loupe every time you sharpen or is this what you suggest for beginners and while learning to overcome specific sharpening problems (like inability to cut tomatoes)?



Whith a higher stone one hasn't to raise a burr: it is there, after one or two strokes. I'm not so much interested in getting rid of scratches, so, yes, the only aim of the progression is to reduce and eventually get rid of the burr. 
If someone has to deal with a wire edge I guess the edge hasn't been fully reached. That's why I suggested marker trick and loupe. 
A safe way to avoid all these inconvenience is sharpening at a lower angle, beginning behind the edge, and increasing the angle a bit more when the very edge has been reached.


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## Nemo

Benuser said:


> Whith a higher stone one hasn't to raise a burr: it is there, after one or two strokes. I'm not so much interested in getting rid of scratches, so, yes, the only aim of the progression is to reduce and eventually get rid of the burr.
> If someone has to deal with a wire edge I guess the edge hasn't been fully reached. That's why I suggested marker trick and loupe.
> A safe way to avoid all these inconvenience is sharpening at a lower angle, beginning behind the edge, and increasing the angle a bit more when the very edge has been reached.



Yes, this makes sense. Thanks.


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