# From my experience, be careful with PayPal



## Gjackson98

To all KKF family, 
If you are buying or selling through PayPal (especially selling in this case), be very careful with the little details to avoid scam. 

As we want to trust everyone here with 100% of our heart and soul, PayPal do not. 

Big thanks to the friend who saved my uss. 

Few tips I will give:
1. Only sell to people you trust, or ask around to do a credit check before process. 

2. Confirm the address on PayPal and the address he/she asked you to sent to are the same, otherwise no protection for the seller. 

3. Be extra careful with international purchase/ sale. Often means less protection. 

4. Actually read BST rules. 

Below is my story: 

In need of cash to cover some bills, I posted a knife for sale around thanksgiving time. the buyer with the highest Offer asked me to do a bundle deal with another knife of my. 
After confirming the purchase, he issued me 50% down payment then the other 50% the following Monday (both business purchase). 

The buyer is from Brazil (PayPal shows Brazil) but asked me to ignore the address and ship to his vacation home in Miami FL USA. As he will be there during Christmas, his building front desk will receive the knife and hold it for him till arrival. 

I then shipped out the knife today at noon. 

Shortly in the afternoon I was reached by a friend raising concerns about how fishy this might be base on buyer’s previous posts and reactions. 

I contacted PayPal, and PayPal explained to me how I will not be protected due to shipping to a different address than what showed on PayPal account; even with email and DM conversation history they can’t proof if it’s the same person. The PayPal representative claims that this can very possibly be a oversea scam and suggested me to go chase my package back. 

In result I got to the USPS 15min before the truck leaves and got my knives back. Woohoo! 

I then reached out to the buyer and explain the situation to him and told him to change the address on the account or pay me Friends and family, I will cover all the lost in fees. As he continually refused to accept the refund and came up with fishy excuses, I have pretty much got my mind settled. 


In this event I lost 73dollars in shipping, and now gotta try to figure out how to get all the money back within a day. But looking on the bride side I didn’t loose two knives and leave some bad taste in my mouth. 

Thanks again for the friend who came and woke me up. 
I don’t want to mention any names here as I don’t have 100% proof if the buyer is a scam, There is no need to damage anyone’s reputation here without proof. 

BR


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## Corradobrit1

Hope that wasn't the Kato. Yes, reading your timeline and the contact with the buyer raises huge red flags. Principally shipping to a different address. Well done catching this before it was too late.


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## Gjackson98

Corradobrit1 said:


> Hope that wasn't the Kato. Yes, reading your timeline and the contact with the buyer raises huge red flags. Principally shipping to a different address. Well done catching this before it was too late.



It surely was my kato lol, takohiki bundle with dammy. 
Good thing it didn’t go south on me, otherwise I will have a real thin Christmas (or 2 maybe 3)


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## Matus

It sounds that escaped from being scammed just by a hair. Thank you for sharing experience and reminding the rest of us to be more careful.


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## ian

Good to know. So, what could have happened? Could the buyer have complained that they didn’t receive the shipment, and then asked Paypal for a refund, after which Paypal would bill you for the reimbursement, since you couldn’t prove that you’d shipped to the authorized address?

I’m confused about how they handle all this, since what’s to stop the buyer from claiming that you sent him a box with a couple paperweights in it instead? I’m assuming you don’t take selfies of yourself and the post office clerk displaying the package contents right before mailing.


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## Barmoley

As a seller, PayPal protection is very little. The buyer can screw you many ways, sell to people you know or take your chances.


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## Gjackson98

ian said:


> Good to know. So, what could have happened? Could the buyer have complained that they didn’t receive the shipment, and then asked Paypal for a refund, after which Paypal would bill you for the reimbursement, since you couldn’t prove that you’d shipped to the authorized address?
> 
> I’m confused about how they handle all this, since what’s to stop the buyer from claiming that you sent him a box with a couple paperweights in it instead? I’m assuming you don’t take selfies of yourself and the post office clerk displaying the package contents right before mailing.



Base on what PayPal representative told me. The buyer can claim never received the package, and that’s the end of the game, you can present whatever paper documents and proofs, PayPal won’t protect the seller if not sent to the PayPal address (not saying if you do sent to the right address you will for sure be protected).

Base on PayPal buyer agreement, as a buyer you can claim under these 3 situation, I only remember 2 that are useful: 
1. Never got the package 
2. Things inside is (a lot) different than described


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## WildBoar

Buyer can send PayPal a photo of a mangled Wusthof and claim that is what you sent, and get a 100% refund. They do not even need to send the 'item' back to you.


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## Matus

It is unfortunately indeed true - buyer can scam the seller much more easily. It may make sense to photo-document the packaging process and the item that was sold/shipped. May help to persuade PayPal that you indeed shipped what you were supposed to. Now whether that will actually help is hard to guess.

Short of third-hand-services (complicated and most likely not cheap) I am not aware of any option that would offer reasonable protection to both buyer and seller.


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## labor of love

Matus said:


> It is unfortunately indeed true - buyer can scam the seller much more easily. It may make sense to photo-document the packaging process and the item that was sold/shipped. May help to persuade PayPal that you indeed shipped what you were supposed to. Now whether that will actually help is hard to guess.
> 
> Short of third-hand-services (complicated and most likely not cheap) I am not aware of any option that would offer reasonable protection to both buyer and seller.


3rd party authenticating of merchandise would actually make sense as a business. No wonder some vendors don’t use PayPal anymore.


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## mise_en_place

If this is actually a scam, why don't you tell us who the buyer was? I think most of us would prefer to not deal with that person in the future.

Additionally, I have dealt with a Brazilian on this site who has had me ship things to a US address with no issues. I wouldn't want other members jumping to conclusions about this person.


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## WildBoar

mise_en_place said:


> Additionally, I have dealt with a Brazilian on this site who has had me ship things to a US address with no issues.


Was there US address also a confirmed PayPal shipping address? The risk is when they give an address that they have not listed in PayPal.


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## mise_en_place

WildBoar said:


> Was there US address also a confirmed PayPal shipping address? The risk is when they give an address that they have not listed in PayPal.



It was years ago and I don't remember.


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## Forty Ounce

mise_en_place said:


> It was years ago and I don't remember.


How would something from years ago be relevant now?


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## mise_en_place

Forty Ounce said:


> How would something from years ago be relevant now?



I'm not sure I understand you correctly. I'd like to know who this person was described in the OP.

I said I'd like to know who they are, because I have dealt with a Brazilian member who requested I send a knife to a US address. I had no problems with him and don't want people to start making assumptions.

I understand the matching PP address, but was responding directly to WildBoar's question. It was years ago, and I can't remember if this member (who did nothing wrong or sketchy) had the US address as his PP or he specifically asked I send it somewhere else.


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## labor of love

I have had good transactions w a Brazilian member here too that asked that I send a knife he purchased to an address here in the US. We were very well acquainted prior to the sell so I didn’t sweat it. 
However, that transaction was for a 300 knife, something like a Kato unicorn is different.


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## Garm

So much great info here! I'm off to peruse the BST section for knives I previously wouldn't have been able to afford..

Jokes aside, thanks for sharing important information. I'm getting ready to unload some gear as well.


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## Bensbites

Thank you for posting. I thought matching the shipping addresses only benefits the buyer, not the seller. Thank you for the education.


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## Forty Ounce

mise_en_place said:


> I'm not sure I understand you correctly. I'd like to know who this person was described in the OP.
> 
> I said I'd like to know who they are, because I have dealt with a Brazilian member who requested I send a knife to a US address. I had no problems with him and don't want people to start making assumptions.
> 
> I understand the matching PP address, but was responding directly to WildBoar's question. It was years ago, and I can't remember if this member (who did nothing wrong or sketchy) had the US address as his PP or he specifically asked I send it somewhere else.


I understand correctly. The person's name won't be shared, because it hasn't been confirmed as a scam. Like the OP said, it's not time to drag a name through the mud.


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## Corradobrit1

Bensbites said:


> Thank you for the education.


We can never have too much of that


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## labor of love

Yeah, I’m actually not sure the buyer in the scenario even did anything wrong. 
Seems more like this thread is about seller security.


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## Corradobrit1

labor of love said:


> Yeah, I’m actually not sure the buyer in the scenario even did anything wrong.
> Seems more like this thread is about seller security.


Well not contacting the seller through KKF (the only place the Kato was advertised for sale) but indirectly through IG raises my eyebrow. Why would you go through all that rigamarole? Perhaps the buyer can add his side to the discussion as he clearly frequents the forum.


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## thebradleycrew

@Barmoley 
I love the verification idea. Really interesting business model there. It's almost like a courier and verification agent. Trying to think of what you'd need to charge for it to make sense. I suspect you'd have to be talking $1000+ items. Could work for electronics and jewelry. Hmmmm. 5% commish, plus actual shipping costs?


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## bahamaroot

"I then reached out to the buyer and explain the situation to him and *told him to change the address on the account or pay me Friends and family*, I will cover all the lost in fees. As *he continually refused to accept the refund and came up with fishy excuses..."
*
This is the part that raised flags with me making it look like possible scam.


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## labor of love

Well yeah I understand the red flags and warnings. But the buyer is under no obligation to to change his PayPal address, if the situation makes the seller uncomfortable then don’t make the sale. Still unclear to me that there was ever a scam involved.


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## valgard

I don't think there's necessarily a scam involved, Brazil is a PITA to import, something many US members might not understand as US has very lax import rules. It's pretty common to use proxies or secondary addresses in the US. 
In this case, with such a big sum involved, the best choice is to not do the deal when there's mistrust.


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## bahamaroot

Never said it was a scam but there were reasons for concern.


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## Barmoley

thebradleycrew said:


> @Barmoley
> I love the verification idea. Really interesting business model there. It's almost like a courier and verification agent. Trying to think of what you'd need to charge for it to make sense. I suspect you'd have to be talking $1000+ items. Could work for electronics and jewelry. Hmmmm. 5% commish, plus actual shipping costs?


Wasn't my idea, it was @Matus + @labor of love. Everyone seems to take credit for @labor of love good ideas, I will take no part in it


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## tgfencer

labor of love said:


> I have had good transactions w a Brazilian member here too that asked that I send a knife he purchased to an address here in the US. We were very well acquainted prior to the sell so I didn’t sweat it.
> However, that transaction was for a 300 knife, something like a Kato unicorn is different.





mise_en_place said:


> ...I have dealt with a Brazilian member who requested I send a knife to a US address. I had no problems with him and don't want people to start making assumptions.
> 
> I understand the matching PP address, but was responding directly to WildBoar's question. It was years ago, and I can't remember if this member (who did nothing wrong or sketchy) had the US address as his PP or he specifically asked I send it somewhere else.



I'm not sure if this is who you are talking about @labor of love or @WildBoar , but I'd just like to say to everyone that our friendly Brazilian @Marcelo Amaral at least is an absolutely solid guy and not who the OP is referring to. I have acted as his occasional US-based intermediary for a few years now. He buys knives/stones, has them shipped to me, and later I ship them all in one package to save him international shipping costs. I'm honestly not sure how this process would be reckoned with Paypal since there has never been a problem thus far.

Maybe the OP can contact the mods privately to ask for advise concerning this sketchy dealing? It might be nice to invite the other party to address the concerns in this thread and explain is point of view. We don't want anyone unfairly thrown under the bus, but we also don't all our Brazilian members to be unfairly stigmatized or other sellers to take unnecessary risks. Just a few thoughts.


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## Gjackson98

mise_en_place said:


> If this is actually a scam, why don't you tell us who the buyer was? I think most of us would prefer to not deal with that person in the future.
> 
> Additionally, I have dealt with a Brazilian on this site who has had me ship things to a US address with no issues. I wouldn't want other members jumping to conclusions about this person.




“I wouldn't want other members jumping to conclusions about this person. “ that’s why I didn’t share names, as like I said I am not 100% sure he is scam but base on others input and feedback.


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## Gjackson98

Bensbites said:


> Thank you for posting. I thought matching the shipping addresses only benefits the buyer, not the seller. Thank you for the education.



I definitely needed it (education) ... never thought about it


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## labor of love

Marcelo is one, but I’ve had success with 3 different Brazilians.


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## labor of love

Gjackson98 said:


> “I wouldn't want other members jumping to conclusions about this person. “ that’s why I didn’t share names, as like I said I am not 100% sure he is scam but base on others input and feedback.


Are you saying the buyer has a past that involves scamming?


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## Gjackson98

labor of love said:


> Are you saying the buyer has a past that involves scamming?



No, just base on feedback received from other members as this person can likely be a scam and what feedback I received after pulling from sale. 

And I am not sure what does this have to do with Brazilian lol, my point is international transaction.


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## tgfencer

Gjackson98 said:


> No, just base on feedback received from other members as this person can likely be a scam and what feedback I received after pulling from sale.
> 
> And I am not sure what does this have to do with Brazilian lol, my point is international transaction.



Your warning about Paypal is warranted and welcomed, thank you. The reason I mentioned other Brazilians and publicly named one of them is because your unnamed buyer at least had a Brazil address, and I don't want this person's state of anonymity to adversely affect those trustworthy Brazilians who contribute to our community.


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## Gjackson98

So again, to clear my intentions. The goal is remind everyone about the 4 tips I listed in the thread, not throw anyone under the bus without 100% proof.


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## Gjackson98

tgfencer said:


> Your warning about Paypal is warranted and welcomed, thank you. The reason I mentioned other Brazilians and publicly named one of them is because your unnamed buyer at least had a Brazil address, and I don't want this person's state of anonymity to adversely affect those trustworthy Brazilians who contribute to our community.



Got it, sorry for the inconvenience that might have caused to any Brazilian members... I believe if following the tips, don’t matter what country the buyer or seller is from, you should be covered.


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## bahamaroot

I've dealt with someone overseas before and they had me ship to a US address that they visit regularly. These situations are more common than most may be aware of and not usually a scam. It just comes down to if something feels "off" take steps to protect yourself.


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## tgfencer

Gjackson98 said:


> Got it, sorry for the inconvenience that might have caused to any Brazilian members... I believe if following the tips, don’t matter what country the buyer or seller is from, you should be covered.



You were doing us all a favor, much respect sir, I hope I didn't sound like I was criticizing you. For my part, I just wanted to vouch for the reputation of a member who met a vaguely similar description. Thanks for the tips, I appreciate the clarifications.


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## labor of love

Yeah, FWIW your confidence should be 100% when selling knives period. That’s all that matters. 
I’m glad you brought up the PayPal rules as not everybody is aware.


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## Gjackson98

Thank you all! 

I didn’t feel judged no worries, just some of my thoughts; the last thing I want to see is respectful sellers getting marked. 

Here again I will like to make sure it’s clear, I have no solid (100%) proof this guy is a scam. Only by word of mouth from other friends and my personal “gut feeling” that something is not straight. 

Due to the high volume of cash involved, I decided to take the Safeway. 

As many might be guessing who this person might be, please don’t take my words for granted, just take the tips.


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## Marcelo Amaral

Thank you Todd, Michael (mise en place) and everybody else who vouched for me. I just wanted to make it perfectly clear that i'm not the person the OP is talking about.

I was fortunate so far to have only good things to say to the people i did buy/sell stuff here at KKF and many others i exchanged words with.


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## Marcelo Amaral

WildBoar said:


> Was there US address also a confirmed PayPal shipping address? The risk is when they give an address that they have not listed in PayPal.



Just answering the question. I've got an Ashi gyuto from Michael (who speaks portuguese!) in 2017 and had it sent to a non confirmed PayPal address at that time.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/ashi-hamono-270mm-gyuto-stainless.31360/

Is it possible for me to have a confirmed PayPal address in the US? If so, i would be willing to do that, no problem.


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## LucasFur

I've purchased from OP. He's pretty sketchy on his own, actually. 

This thread should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## Gjackson98

LucasFur said:


> I've purchased from OP. He's pretty sketchy on his own, actually.
> 
> This thread should be taken with a grain of salt.



Humm interesting you said that, first of all I agree take my comments with a grain of salt. 

Secondly sketchy you mean year back when you failed to announce “please ship to me without insurance” because you assume everyone knows? 
I did offer to return the package but at the end we followed your decision, we both split the fee 50/50? 

In that case I am sorry if it’s not ok to want to protect my properties and I wasn’t born with the knowledge that Canada have extra charges.


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## LucasFur

Gjackson98 said:


> I did offer to return the package but at the end we followed your decision, we both split the fee 50/50?
> 
> In that case I am sorry if it’s not ok to want to protect my properties and I wasn’t born with the knowledge that Canada have extra charges.



Right! I did make you pay 1/2 of the import issues. That's why I ended up keeping it. 

None the less, once you received your money it's my issue. 

Once you ship with tracking. What is the seller suppose to do if it doesn't arrive? - 
I don't know if PayPal going to the seller and taking money out of their account because a buyer complained.


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## Barmoley

If the buyer claims that the item didn't arrive or what arrived was not as described, which really is catch for all, PayPal takes money out of seller account. The buyer doesn't even have to return the item technically. If the buyer returns the item the seller can try to get some of the money back if the item was damaged, but it is up to PayPal. The buyer never looses in this situation, the seller can loose all or a portion, but will always loose something.


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## ian

FWIW, I would probably ship with insurance unless specified otherwise, although now that I've shipped to Canada a couple times, I will explicitly ask for international sales. But I don't think it's the seller's responsibility to anticipate an unsaid preference of the buyer, and in fact I think that the buyer really doesn't have any say whatsoever in the shipping terms unless they're specified before the sale is completed. (That said, I'd of course be willing to have a conversation about it.) If I'm understanding what went down correctly, I think @Gjackson98 was very generous to pay 1/2 of the import duties.


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## Gjackson98

LucasFur said:


> Right! I did make you pay 1/2 of the import issues. That's why I ended up keeping it.
> 
> None the less, once you received your money it's my issue.
> 
> Once you ship with tracking. What is the seller suppose to do if it doesn't arrive? -
> I don't know if PayPal going to the seller and taking money out of their account because a buyer complained.



Words from PayPal representative was that if you ship to a different address than what’s showing on their PayPal account you will receive no seller protection. 

Words from other states that if you are being asked for refund with not enough money in PayPal account, PayPal will issue a statement to your bank and if not pay on time will start eating your credit.


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## Gjackson98

Anyway like Lucas said, please take my words with grain of salt. If this PayPal protection is unclear to you, contact PayPal and get their direct responds is the best way.


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## nakneker

You were wise to act on the side of caution. Your talking about big money here, too big to risk after being informed of the possibilities. If you expressed your concerns to the buyer and he didn’t want to work with you then it’s ok to cancel the deal and refund him his deposit. No sense in moving forward when your at an impasse like that. I’m glad you shared this experience, I will keep it mind when dealing with like scenarios. In the end there is always a certain amount of risk when buying and selling on a BST forum. It’s a worldwide market and we put a tremendous amount of trust in others. It helps when people have a history of buying and selling, makes the comfort level go way up.


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## LucasFur

Gjackson98 said:


> Words from PayPal representative was that if you ship to a different address than what’s showing on their PayPal account you will receive no seller protection.
> 
> Words from other states that if you are being asked for refund with not enough money in PayPal account, PayPal will issue a statement to your bank and if not pay on time will start eating your credit.



Why do you need seller protection? What is seller protection? Buyer asked to ship to middle of nowhere, what's the issue? 

I guess that's if you link your bank account to PayPal. But it really doesn't make sense. 

I literally could ship a empty package to the correct address on PayPal, and have the receipt showing I shipped to correct address..... There isn't the same risk for the seller as the buyers.


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## LucasFur

Gjackson98 said:


> Words from PayPal representative was that if you ship to a different address than what’s showing on their PayPal account you will receive no seller protection.
> 
> Words from other states that if you are being asked for refund with not enough money in PayPal account, PayPal will issue a statement to your bank and if not pay on time will start eating your credit.



Why do you need seller protection? What is seller protection? Buyer asked to ship to middle of nowhere, what's the issue? 

I guess that's if you link your bank account to PayPal. But it really doesn't make sense. 

I literally could ship a empty package to the correct address on PayPal, and have the receipt showing I shipped to correct address..... There isn't the same risk for the seller as the buyers.


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## Barmoley

LucasFur said:


> Why do you need seller protection? What is seller protection? Buyer asked to ship to middle of nowhere, what's the issue?
> 
> I guess that's if you link your bank account to PayPal. But it really doesn't make sense.
> 
> I literally could ship a empty package to the correct address on PayPal, and have the receipt showing I shipped to correct address..... There isn't the same risk for the seller as the buyers.


Buyer has no risk with PayPal unless paying F & F. Buyer will get full amount refunded when claiming that they didn't receive what they bought.

Seller has some protection, but little and that is voided if you ship to unregistered address.

In most cases your bank account is linked to PayPal. Even if somehow it is not, PayPal will put you into collection there by screwing your credit.

To summarize, buyer is at a huge advantage in BST transactions when using PayPal protection. So sell carefully.


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## Gjackson98

LucasFur said:


> Why do you need seller protection? What is seller protection? Buyer asked to ship to middle of nowhere, what's the issue?
> 
> I guess that's if you link your bank account to PayPal. But it really doesn't make sense.
> 
> I literally could ship a empty package to the correct address on PayPal, and have the receipt showing I shipped to correct address..... There isn't the same risk for the seller as the buyers.



In my case I can’t transfer money from PayPal to my bank if I don’t link them. (If there are other ways, please show me)

Regarding seller protection and shipping to the right address. 

1st. 
there has been cases of scam (through PayPal) where the buyer called the money back upon receiving the product or service, so we are discussing the topic here for everyone to be cautious about. Business is a two way street, both side should he comfortable and protected. 

2nd.
Shipping to a different address than what’s on PayPal. 
If you ship the package to the middle of nowhere and that nowhere address matches what’s on his/her PayPal account, then after you mail the package (assuming he won’t say what you shipped is not accurate) it’s the post office’s responsibility. If they claim never received the package and you got insurance; you can at least claim the insurance and the game is between him and post office. 
If you ship to a random address not matching his/her PayPal. You lost all backups. 

What you are saying is true, there can always be a bad sample from both ends. So only do business with people you trust or comfortable.


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## Brian Weekley

My dad had an interesting saying ... probably wasn’t original but it’s still relevant. It goes like this ...

“The most important term in any contract isn’t in the contract .... that is DEAL WITH AN HONEST MAN. If you deal with a dishonest man, no term in any contract will protect you. If you deal with an honest man you probably don’t need a contract.”

The way I look at it is that members with a history on KKF are probably the real deal and they would think twice about jeopardizing their reputation on KKF. I don’t place a lot of value on PayPal “protection”. I don’t like the idea of sellers having to pay a big fee on every transaction. Generally after the first transaction with someone on KKF I move to f&f. I think the likelihood of getting burned is pretty small.


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## VICTOR J CREAZZI

Gjackson98 said:


> Base on what PayPal representative told me. The buyer can claim never received the package, and that’s the end of the game, you can present whatever paper documents and proofs, PayPal won’t protect the seller if not sent to the PayPal address (not saying if you do sent to the right address you will for sure be protected).
> 
> Base on PayPal buyer agreement, as a buyer you can claim under these 3 situation, I only remember 2 that are useful:
> 1. Never got the package
> 2. Things inside is (a lot) different than described


One would hope that paypal keeps some record of this so that the scammer could only pull this a few times. paypal depends on sellers too.

If the buyer claims that they never got the package and the package was insured, I would expect that the postal service would do some investigation as it may constitute mail fraud. Surely two people can't collude to send each other empty boxes and then collect on the insurance.


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## Jville

VICTOR J CREAZZI said:


> One would hope that paypal keeps some record of this so that the scammer could only pull this a few times. paypal depends on sellers too.
> 
> If the buyer claims that they never got the package and the package was insured, I would expect that the postal service would do some investigation as it may constitute mail fraud. Surely two people can't collude to send each other empty boxes and then collect on the insurance.



Want me to send you a package


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## Lol-x

Pretty Sketchy....hahaha












I would not accept paypal from anyone, one has to be careful. Paypal accounts can be stolen (phished) too and so the person operating the account is not the person who owns the account.

However as a buyer I love to use PayPal, but will abide the seller's requirements.


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## bahamaroot

Lol-x said:


> ...I would not accept paypal from anyone, one has to be careful. Paypal accounts can be stolen (phished) too and so the person operating the account is not the person who owns the account...


There can be problems with ANY form of payment if someone is trying to run a scam on you. And most internet transactions can't be completed by "cash in hand", the safest form.


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## ynot1985

I think this has to be judged on a case by case scenario.

I do the same thing myself. I live in Australia and its simply too expensive to have one package at a time shipped to me from the USA ($30-$50 USD) a package in Shipping.

I pay with Paypal (which has my address as in Australia) but I have requested it to be sent to NYC to a friend so they can consolidate it with my other knives and Amazon purchases and then resend it to me.

Sometimes, for sales on BST, some sellers will only ship to CONUS. Without doing this, I simply can not buy them.

I know the background story to the OP's story and yes the buyer in question does sound dodgy but there are some of us who are genuine buyers.


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## Joao lourenco

Hey guys!
Just found out this thread, otherwise would have pronounced earlier.
That specific transaction person is/was me and i hope that by now, its all water under the bridge, and my intention is not to stern anything!
At the time had recently joined KKF and couldnt sent pm or post at BST.
Brazil is a very complicated country for money exchange/foreign payments (and expensive exhange transactions) and specially custom imports/tax.
If anyone still has any doubts please fell free to ask
otherwise im just an enthusiast as most of us.


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## Jville

Joao lourenco said:


> Hey guys!
> Just found out this thread, otherwise would have pronounced earlier.
> That specific transaction person is/was me and i hope that by now, its all water under the bridge, and my intention is not to stern anything!
> At the time had recently joined KKF and couldnt sent pm or post at BST.
> Brazil is a very complicated country for money exchange/foreign payments (and expensive exhange transactions) and specially custom imports/tax.
> If anyone still has any doubts please fell free to ask
> otherwise im just an enthusiast as most of us.



That's why I like being able to question things. People can come on here and tell their side and you get a full picture. Rather than keeping things so secretive.


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## nakneker

Joao lourenco said:


> Hey guys!
> Just found out this thread, otherwise would have pronounced earlier.
> That specific transaction person is/was me and i hope that by now, its all water under the bridge, and my intention is not to stern anything!
> At the time had recently joined KKF and couldnt sent pm or post at BST.
> Brazil is a very complicated country for money exchange/foreign payments (and expensive exhange transactions) and specially custom imports/tax.
> If anyone still has any doubts please fell free to ask
> otherwise im just an enthusiast as most of us.


I’ve done business with Joao and give him 5 stars in all regards. Deal with confidence.


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## Nino-chan

Gjackson98 said:


> To all KKF family,
> If you are buying or selling through PayPal (especially selling in this case), be very careful with the little details to avoid scam.
> 
> As we want to trust everyone here with 100% of our heart and soul, PayPal do not.
> 
> Big thanks to the friend who saved my uss.
> 
> Few tips I will give:
> 1. Only sell to people you trust, or ask around to do a credit check before process.
> 
> 2. Confirm the address on PayPal and the address he/she asked you to sent to are the same, otherwise no protection for the seller.
> 
> 3. Be extra careful with international purchase/ sale. Often means less protection.
> 
> 4. Actually read BST rules.
> 
> Below is my story:
> 
> In need of cash to cover some bills, I posted a knife for sale around thanksgiving time. the buyer with the highest Offer asked me to do a bundle deal with another knife of my.
> After confirming the purchase, he issued me 50% down payment then the other 50% the following Monday (both business purchase).
> 
> The buyer is from Brazil (PayPal shows Brazil) but asked me to ignore the address and ship to his vacation home in Miami FL USA. As he will be there during Christmas, his building front desk will receive the knife and hold it for him till arrival.
> 
> I then shipped out the knife today at noon.
> 
> Shortly in the afternoon I was reached by a friend raising concerns about how fishy this might be base on buyer’s previous posts and reactions.
> 
> I contacted PayPal, and PayPal explained to me how I will not be protected due to shipping to a different address than what showed on PayPal account; even with email and DM conversation history they can’t proof if it’s the same person. The PayPal representative claims that this can very possibly be a oversea scam and suggested me to go chase my package back.
> 
> In result I got to the USPS 15min before the truck leaves and got my knives back. Woohoo!
> 
> I then reached out to the buyer and explain the situation to him and told him to change the address on the account or pay me Friends and family, I will cover all the lost in fees. As he continually refused to accept the refund and came up with fishy excuses, I have pretty much got my mind settled.
> 
> 
> In this event I lost 73dollars in shipping, and now gotta try to figure out how to get all the money back within a day. But looking on the bride side I didn’t loose two knives and leave some bad taste in my mouth.
> 
> Thanks again for the friend who came and woke me up.
> I don’t want to mention any names here as I don’t have 100% proof if the buyer is a scam, There is no need to damage anyone’s reputation here without proof.
> 
> BR


thanks for the info mate


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## Gjackson98

Joao lourenco said:


> Hey guys!
> Just found out this thread, otherwise would have pronounced earlier.
> That specific transaction person is/was me and i hope that by now, its all water under the bridge, and my intention is not to stern anything!
> At the time had recently joined KKF and couldnt sent pm or post at BST.
> Brazil is a very complicated country for money exchange/foreign payments (and expensive exhange transactions) and specially custom imports/tax.
> If anyone still has any doubts please fell free to ask
> otherwise im just an enthusiast as most of us.



Hello Joao, thanks for clarify with me along the way. I really appreciate your understanding and feedback. 

I like to apologize if by any chance this experience has cost you any discomfort or problems. 
The entire purchasing experience has been very complex and confusing. 

Here I like to clearing for Joao as he has been a honest and understanding man. 
I don’t wish to continue elaborate on our story, as the focus of this thread has been watch out for PayPal.

If anyone has any questions or concerns I will be happy to answer in a PM.


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