# Windows 10 - Who's going to upgrade



## 99Limited (Jul 21, 2015)

About a month ago I noticed the little upgrade notification. Figured I'd go on and get on the wait list and then make my decision when the time came. So here we are about a week from the release of Win 10 and I'm thinking. I know better than be an early adopter of any software so I'm leaning towards waiting. Microsoft is offering this free upgrade for a year so there's not really any rush. My PC is about 5 years old running Win 7 and has gotten kinda sluggish. When it was new startup was almost instantaneous, now not so much. I'm wondering if the upgrade will exasperate my performance issues or will it somehow clean everything up and return my PC to like new. I don't really believe that's going to happen, but I thought I'd like to hear what other people have to say.


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## havox07 (Jul 21, 2015)

I mean if your computer is running that poorly there are probably a few things you could do to fix it up in general. Ccleaner is pretty good for cleaning out your registry and unused files, maybe defrag the hard drive if it is a hard drive, and make sure the hard drive isn't too full. Windows 10 should be a decent bump in performance as the new windows versions do run a lot better than 7. I know I have 10 already on one of my PCs and it looks to be pretty great and I don't really have any issues.

If you need some more advice on how to tune your computer up a bit hit me with a pm, computer stuff is kind of my forte.


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## Dave Martell (Jul 21, 2015)

I want Win98 back.


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## chinacats (Jul 21, 2015)

I've been running 8 for the post few months. I think I'll be going back to 7 until they get the inevitable kinks worked out of 10. The last I read was that this was likely to stay free as part of their new business model?


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## LasagnaBurrito (Jul 21, 2015)

99Limited said:


> About a month ago I noticed the little upgrade notification. Figured I'd go on and get on the wait list and then make my decision when the time came. So here we are about a week from the release of Win 10 and I'm thinking. I know better than be an early adopter of any software so I'm leaning towards waiting. Microsoft is offering this free upgrade for a year so there's not really any rush. My PC is about 5 years old running Win 7 and has gotten kinda sluggish. When it was new startup was almost instantaneous, now not so much. I'm wondering if the upgrade will exasperate my performance issues or will it somehow clean everything up and return my PC to like new. I don't really believe that's going to happen, but I thought I'd like to hear what other people have to say.



Quick reformat and it will work good as new.. OS "doesn't really" have much to do with how well your computer runs, that's the hardware, though the OS can require more resources and can be overall a bad experience, but Windows 7 IS NOT the cause of your issue.


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## WingKKF (Jul 21, 2015)

The upgrade train, I'm on it. I was on XP till they stopped supporting it. That means no security updates. An unpatched OS with old unpatched applications are the last things you want running on your PC thats connected to the internet. If a Windows 7 PC and on up gets slow, it probably not an OS issue unlike earlier version of Windows. It's probably an infestation of malware or junkware eating up you CPU and I/O or most likely your hard drive filling up. Hard drives both spinning platter and SSDs gets slower as its capacity is used up. Anywhere close to 75% is where slowdown is quite evident. Best thing to do is to get an SSD for your OS boot, pagefile and application drive and keep it below 70% usage. Keep your regular hard drive for bulk data.


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## havox07 (Jul 21, 2015)

LasagnaBurrito said:


> Quick reformat and it will work good as new.. OS "doesn't really" have much to do with how well your computer runs, that's the hardware, though the OS can require more resources and can be overall a bad experience, but Windows 7 IS NOT the cause of your issue.



Reformat is just the quick and dirty way of doing what I was saying to do, it really is completely unnecessary.


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## James (Jul 21, 2015)

WingKKF said:


> Best thing to do is to get an SSD for your OS boot, pagefile and application drive and keep it below 70% usage. Keep your regular hard drive for bulk data.



This!


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## Mingooch (Jul 22, 2015)

I have an SSD and it is worth every penny. I run an alienware with the free upgrade to 10. I have heard of many issues for alienware computers with 10, so I am waiting a bit before I upgrade.


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## gic (Jul 22, 2015)

I've been in this business for longer than windows has been around and the rule since windows launched has always been every other release of Windows since Windows 3 is pretty good, so 10 will probably be pretty good 

It's also free


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## Mucho Bocho (Jul 22, 2015)

I wouldn't let a Windows application in the same room as my MAC, unless its in a Vm of course. DOS 5.0 was the best OS MSFT ever created, Windows 95 wasn't bad either.


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## havox07 (Jul 22, 2015)

Mucho Bocho said:


> I wouldn't let a Windows application in the same room as my MAC, unless its in a Vm of course. DOS 5.0 was the best OS MSFT ever created, Windows 95 wasn't bad either.



Windows 10 is pretty dang awesome, 7 was great, even 8 ran well people just didn't like the interface. Compared to Mac who doesn't support their users past a few years I am one of the few that will switch from a macbook to a PC for my next laptop purchase.


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## rick_english (Jul 23, 2015)

No matter what the 10 interface is, it will be better than Metro.


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## gic (Jul 23, 2015)

Well I always recommend that the first thing people should do when they got a machine with windows 8 or 8.1 was install something like "Classic Shell", that made Metro go away -) ) of course 10 will make classic shell not needed of course...


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## LasagnaBurrito (Jul 23, 2015)

havox07 said:


> Reformat is just the quick and dirty way of doing what I was saying to do, it really is completely unnecessary.



reformats are recommended every year or so. Even with ccleaner, defragging, cleanup, etc, etc, you will still have clutter, and crap, in your machine. Tons of crap that you don't need, or wont need in the future. I do everything you mentioned already, and still have clutter and crap that slows my computer down, meaning, I am due for some formatting.

As for "performance boosts" with updates, I wouldn't say that to be true, at all, and is usually the opposite. The OS upgrade will usually cost more resources, which in turn will make things slower. That being said there are ways to make things faster, use less resources, and overall be better, but a lot of people don't see that in updates, especially 8. As for 10, I cannot ocmment on that.


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## MAS4T0 (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm sure they've put provisions in place so that you can roll back to your previous operating system if you're not keen.

I only use windows as a VM on my Mac and I find that windows 8 can be annoying to navigate without a touchscreen. I'm intending to install to update when it's released and then if there are too many bugs I'll just restore windows 8. I guess it's worth a try.


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## havox07 (Jul 23, 2015)

LasagnaBurrito said:


> reformats are recommended every year or so. Even with ccleaner, defragging, cleanup, etc, etc, you will still have clutter, and crap, in your machine. Tons of crap that you don't need, or wont need in the future. I do everything you mentioned already, and still have clutter and crap that slows my computer down, meaning, I am due for some formatting.
> 
> As for "performance boosts" with updates, I wouldn't say that to be true, at all, and is usually the opposite. The OS upgrade will usually cost more resources, which in turn will make things slower. That being said there are ways to make things faster, use less resources, and overall be better, but a lot of people don't see that in updates, especially 8. As for 10, I cannot comment on that.



No you really don't need to reformat. Any of this clutter is very easy to remove, unless you place files in places and don't really want to deal with deleting and organising them. Reformat used to be thought of as a way to fix things before people had all these programs and resources to remove the clutter.

As for recent windows versions becoming more efficient they have, windows 7 was not really one of those, but windows 8 brought a sizeable performance bump in a lot of their coding and general use. Windows 10 again makes things more efficient and run better. As time goes by now things don't really need to get more complicated and are becoming more streamlined, I know I have an htpc at home I have left on 7 and plan to upgrade to 10 soon to gain a decent amount of performance.


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## WingKKF (Jul 23, 2015)

Yeah, reformatting, registry cleaning, manually defragging and partitioning drives for performance are kludges that once may have worked but in the context of more modern OSes, are like outdated superstitious rituals. They are not all morons at Microsoft, and do have smart people working to improve the OS internals with every release. If you're PC savvy, there are free tools from sysinternals(now part of MS technet) that will tell you whats going on on the PC when it seems slow. procexp and autoruns are two I use most often. Windows 7 and up has resmon which gives you great information of how your PCs resources are being used so you can identify the hogs. Look them up on google as there are guides on how to use them.


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## LiLimoon (Aug 3, 2020)

wow, Windows 10 is already 5 years old


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## ModRQC (Aug 3, 2020)

And pushing ads and other shits our way like crazy the more the versions evolved. I like Windows 10, but Windows 8.1 was about perfect with the right settings, and free of BS.


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## M1k3 (Aug 3, 2020)




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## juice (Aug 3, 2020)

havox07 said:


> Ccleaner is pretty good for cleaning out your registry and unused files


It's been looking pretty dodgy since AVAST bought it, and a lot of people are now suggesting it's best avoided.



WingKKF said:


> Best thing to do is to get an SSD for your OS boot, pagefile and application drive


Yeah, so much this, makes a huge difference. And get the fastest one you can, there are some very slow SSDs out there still. (I just put a new 1TB Nvme in my system to replace the 250GB Nvme that I put in a year or so ago, and it's VERY obviously quicker, and the old one was quite a lot quicker than the SATA SSD it replaced back then.)


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## M1k3 (Aug 3, 2020)

Definitely an SSD for the OS and apps. Ram a close second, 8GB at minimum.


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## juice (Aug 3, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Ram a close second, 8GB at minimum.


Yeah, absolutely. I think 16GB is pretty close to becoming a requirement these days. (I'm running 32GB, but photo and video processing is somewhat out of the mainstream.)


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## ModRQC (Aug 3, 2020)

Nvme SSD 240g for OS, sata SSD 480gb for Steam, 16GB 3200mhz... main PC. 

Server has a 240gb sata ssd for OS and 8TB hard drives for media and backup. 32Gb 2400 mhz ram.

Htpc runs on 128gb sata ssd.


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## M1k3 (Aug 3, 2020)

Yeah, I figure 8GB for mainstream, web, email and Facebook usage. People that would need more than 8GB would know this. Potentially...

I used to do PC Repair.. some customers are clueless and demanding. Glad food doesn't speak verbally.


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## juice (Aug 3, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Glad food doesn't speak verbally.


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## ModRQC (Aug 3, 2020)

8GB is a minimum with DDR4 if you want dual channel - which you do. It’s more than enough too for 95% of people. Old systems I built for customers with ssd and 4GB 1600mhz ddr3 are still almigthy fine for general use.


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## Ericfg (Aug 3, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Definitely an SSD for the OS and apps. Ram a close second, 8GB at minimum.


Would that I knew what any of those terms meant.


That's one thing I've noticed here (and elsewhere); using abbreviations for insider terminology is confusing. I use abbreviations like 'Henx' and 'Viki' (for Henckels and Victorinox) for myself when writing notes to myself but when posting/blogging/communicating in public with others who might not know what I'm referring to I try to write out as much as I can so noobs/lurkers can understand what I'm typing.
As an example, how many of you can decipher this? "WTS Soviet ORS T6-V11.1 (MMD, 1952-57) S#1364508 dublikat!"? 
For me, in my field, that is as clear as a bell. For 99.999% of the rest of the world...?


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## McMan (Aug 3, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> WTS Soviet ORS T6-V11.1 (MMD, 1952-57) S#1364508 dublikat!


You're selling votes?


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## ModRQC (Aug 3, 2020)

Abbreviations are inclusive of knowledge. Even if I tell you: SSD means Solid State Drive, is it better? We’re still far from getting one to understand how it works to speed up your PC/Mac/lappie/smart device.

An SSD most people know of from the flash storage of a decent smart phone or tablet. That’s why they felt so fast compared to most PCs and else for most people when it began.


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## M1k3 (Aug 3, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> Would that I knew what any of those terms meant.
> 
> 
> That's one thing I've noticed here (and elsewhere); using abbreviations for insider terminology is confusing. I use abbreviations like 'Henx' and 'Viki' (for Henckels and Victorinox) for myself when writing notes to myself but when posting/blogging/communicating in public with others who might not know what I'm referring to I try to write out as much as I can so noobs/lurkers can understand what I'm typing.
> ...


Solid State Drive, like a fancy USB flash drive that goes inside your computer for storage. Random Access Memory, high speed temporary memory for open programs to do all the juggling of 1's and 0's. Moar of both is moar gooder. Old traditional Hard Drives go clickity-clack sometimes a spinning motor sound when doing stuff on them. Cheap in price for amount of storage, good for storing stuff, not good for doing stuff.


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## WildBoar (Aug 4, 2020)

OS = Oh ****! 'Cause now you are locked in to that companies **** for a long time.


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## juice (Aug 4, 2020)

WildBoar said:


> OS = Oh ****! 'Cause now you are locked in to that companies **** for a long time.


You could always format and install Linux


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## Luftmensch (Aug 4, 2020)

juice said:


> You could always format and install Linux



 

Many people seem happy enough with it on their phones... or just about any server they interact with... and many embedded systems running a higher functioning OS...


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## juice (Aug 4, 2020)

Luftmensch said:


> Many people seem happy enough with it on their phones... or just about any server they interact with... and many embedded systems running a higher functioning OS...


IOW, in already-installed set-and-forget systems


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## Luftmensch (Aug 4, 2020)

juice said:


> IOW, in already-installed set-and-forget systems



Yup! Depending on what level of the 'OS' you want to compare... Mac bares some uncanny similarities...  Unix derivatives anyone?


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## Slim278 (Aug 4, 2020)




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## Honerabi (Aug 4, 2020)

IMHO 256 GB is a bit constraining. I replaced the 256 GB NVMe SSD in my Samy ATIV with a 1 TB NVMe. That with a Seagate portable HD works. It just puts off file maintenance longer.


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## Ericfg (Aug 4, 2020)

> "WTS Soviet ORS T6-V11.1 (MMD, 1952-57) S#1364508 dublikat!"? 


McMan said:


> You're selling votes?


See what I mean? It's an advertisement for a Soviet military award. Clarity is important if you want to reach out others. (and yes, I get the very hilarious joke about Russian votes.)


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## ian (Aug 5, 2020)

Ericfg said:


> Would that I knew what any of those terms meant.
> 
> 
> That's one thing I've noticed here (and elsewhere); using abbreviations for insider terminology is confusing. I use abbreviations like 'Henx' and 'Viki' (for Henckels and Victorinox) for myself when writing notes to myself but when posting/blogging/communicating in public with others who might not know what I'm referring to I try to write out as much as I can so noobs/lurkers can understand what I'm typing.
> ...



I sort of agree with this in principle, except that in a forum that always talks about the same things, it’s much more efficient to write “Wat” instead of Watanabe. But that’s what the glossary is for.

However, in the particular example you’re objecting to, the acronyms are just as well known as the full names. RAM and SSD are more like “SCUBA diving“ than your personal abbreviations ‘Henx’ and ‘Viki’.


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## Nemo (Aug 5, 2020)

What is this "Windows" that you speak of?


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## M1k3 (Aug 5, 2020)

Nemo said:


> What is this "Windows" that you speak of?


The thing JML makes us want to jump out of?


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## Ruso (Nov 16, 2020)

I don’t like Windows 10, I’ve been told to try Windows 95 or 9.5 something like that. My local BestBuy did not have it, any idea where can I find it?


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## M1k3 (Nov 16, 2020)

Ruso said:


> I don’t like Windows 10, I’ve been told to try Windows 95 or 9.5 something like that. My local BestBuy did not have it, any idea where can I find it?


Are you sure they didn't recommend the ultimate version of Windows? Windows for Workgroups 3.11?


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## Ruso (Nov 16, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Are you sure they didn't recommend the ultimate version of Windows? Windows for Workgroups 3.11?


No, I have a laptop. Will it run?


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## ian (Nov 16, 2020)

I have it running on my iPhone. 

Edit: just kidding. I think @M1k3 may be having a bit of fun here. Windows 95 is so old now. Windows for Workgroups 3.11 came out in 1994. Or maybe he’s not joking and I have to brush up on my Windows knowledge.


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## M1k3 (Nov 16, 2020)

Ruso said:


> No, I have a laptop. Will it run?


As long as it doesn't have a logo of a fruit on it.


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## panda (Nov 16, 2020)

i use nokia


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 16, 2020)

FTW.


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## juice (Nov 16, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Windows for Workgroups 3.11?


That was such a great leap forward, I remember it fondly.



M1k3 said:


> As long as it doesn't have a logo of a fruit on it.


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## M1k3 (Nov 16, 2020)

ian said:


> I have it running on my iPhone.
> 
> Edit: just kidding. I think @M1k3 may be having a bit of fun here. Windows 95 is so old now. Windows for Workgroups 3.11 came out in 1994. Or maybe he’s not joking and I have to brush up on my Windows knowledge.


Totally kidding. I have 2 PC's and both are running Windows 10. Have nostalgia for old Windows and DOS, but... I don't miss them one single bit!


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## ian (Nov 16, 2020)

I don't miss Mac OS 9 at all, strangely.


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## M1k3 (Nov 16, 2020)

ian said:


> I don't miss Mac OS 9 at all, strangely.


I don't speak the language of Malus Domestica


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## Luftmensch (Nov 17, 2020)

Punch cards...


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## Corradobrit1 (Nov 17, 2020)

Floppy disks...


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## ModRQC (Nov 17, 2020)

Test Driver...


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## M1k3 (Nov 17, 2020)

Demolition Racer


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## Luftmensch (Nov 17, 2020)

Disks are a funny thing in my experience.

My disks were pretty floppy when they were 8" or 5 1/4". When they shrunk to 3.5", they got harder but they were still 'floppy'... if you know what I mean? Several years later, my disks were still 3.5" but they actually became hard - yet there seemed to be more inside them? Now my disks are even smaller!!! About 3"! But I wouldnt describe them as hard... they seem pretty solid though...


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## juice (Nov 17, 2020)

LODERUNNER on the Apple II+ (yes, I owned an Apple clone once, to my shame - well my family did anyway) is the best game ever. Would have been even better if it had save states...


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## MarcelNL (Nov 18, 2020)

I fondly recall my first Hard drive, or Winchester, was it 10Mb or even 20? Cost a fortune and would never be filled....and that seemed true as a single density floppy stored kilobytes not Megabytes...but that was well before glass was invented


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## WildBoar (Nov 18, 2020)

Don't forget the extra $350+ if you wanted a math coprocessor chip!

Our first two PCs for running AutoCad (version 2) needed graphics cards and lots of RAM. The option for a 1 MB RAM chip was $1000 in the late 1980s. The graphics cards added about $3.5k per machine. The HDDs were 10 MB. All-in on the two PCs with monitors was close to $15k in 1987/8.


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## ian (Nov 18, 2020)

My life in computer games:

LogoWriter
Carmen Sandiego
Oregon Trail
LodeRunner
Prince of Persia
SimCity
Marathon
Myst
Myth
Oni
Unreal Tournament
Halo

(years of carpal tunnel, punctuated by stints with iPhone games like Minecraft and Tower Madness)

Borderlands 2, briefly


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## Kippington (Nov 19, 2020)

M1k3 said:


> Totally kidding. I have 2 PC's and both are running Windows 10. Have nostalgia for old Windows and DOS, but... I don't miss them one single bit!


Remember when DOS got a graphical update?


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## ian (Nov 19, 2020)

Kippington said:


> Remember when DOS got a graphical update?



I might be weird, but there’s nothing that gets me hornier than seeing 10 files in a row with the same name and different extensions.


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## esoo (Nov 19, 2020)

Sitting in my basement, I have a gen 1 IBM PC (complete with the monochrome monitor). Given to me by my uncle and I remember loading games from tape on it. Also have the original Compaq portable. 

I'm a Linux guy and do a lot of headless work so it's all command line for me in my day job.


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## MarcelNL (Nov 19, 2020)

haha, I remember when DOS was introduced, lots of peeking an poking and never getting anything to work smoothly...at home as a kid growing up in an early adopter home I played with loads of new computers coming out, various different Z80A processor based computers, MSX, loads of tape frustration, and then a Personal Computer


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## The Edge (Nov 19, 2020)

I'm currently switching to Windows 10. Yeah, I pushed it off for as long as I could... Just annoyed that it doesn't read my soft raid. Instead of redoing a raid on my computer, I'll most likely just buy a separate NAS.

My family's first computer was an Apple IIe. We then got an Apple IIgs, and got one of the first hard drives that was 748k large. Awesome when we didn't have to put a disk in to run a program. That was magic. At this time, as an elementary kid, I was being called to the computer room to help teachers turn computers on and get them running for classes. We've gone through iterations of IBM's from 286 to 386 to 486, and then they started measuring actual processor speeds, and we started building computers. 

I am a hardware guy though. Not so much a software person. I remember having to clear enough memory to install Wing Commander 2 in DOS, and I don't ever think my hate has numbed since that experience. I'm amazed at what they can do now, but I'd rather be spending my time outside. Computers seem a young man's game these days, or at least to people that have more patience than I do lol.


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## panda (Nov 19, 2020)

ian said:


> I might be weird, but there’s nothing that gets me hornier than seeing 10 files in a row with the same name and different extensions.


talk about a weird kink


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## juice (Nov 19, 2020)

panda said:


> talk about a weird kink


Yeah, but it's Ian


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## inferno (Nov 21, 2020)

i just got a new thinkpad with an amd ryzen7. came with win10 preinstalled. while it worked i really dont like win10. win7 for me was usable but win10 just feels ret*rded. luckily mx/manjaro/mint works well with the 5.8 something kernel. _it just works_


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## M1k3 (Nov 21, 2020)

One thing I do with my Win 10 is install Classic Shell. I can make windows more XP, 7 or 8 looking. No more stupid tiles.


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## ModRQC (Nov 21, 2020)

I’d rather use Win 10 desktop interface as is. Pretty much classic shell, tiles only in start menu where they can be useful and where there’s also the list version of apps.
Start options more powerful too when right clicking, easy access to every subsystem that counts. Of course I work exclusively with Pro version so that I can gpedit out Cortana, web search, and a stream of other useless stuff. And clear out the Start menu just to have what I need there which is very little, I prefer taskbar for programs launch.


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## Luftmensch (Nov 22, 2020)

esoo said:


> I'm a Linux guy and do a lot of headless work so it's all command line for me in my day job.





inferno said:


> luckily mx/manjaro/mint works well with the 5.8 something kernel. _it just works_



That thread would be titled: "Debian 10 - Who's going to upgrade"... except the thread would be a year and a half old... And obsolete with 11 around the corner


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## Luftmensch (Nov 22, 2020)

ian said:


> there’s nothing that gets me hornier than seeing 10 files in a row with the same name and different extensions.



That doesnt get me so hot around the collar. Now... different but related variable names that are all the same length - so that the assignment operators line up...



(each to their own)


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## Marek07 (Nov 23, 2020)

Kippington said:


> Remember when DOS got a graphical update?


Sure do! But hardly used it. Xtree Gold & Norton Utilities had already become good friends of mine. Haven't really taken to the Windows Power Shell either. My limited needs are well served by using the command line.
@The Edge - Whaddaya mean young man's game?!? I still like playing WinDoze... and I know some old women who play as well! 
@M1k3 - I used to use the Classic Shell. They (MS) finally brainwashed/inculcated me. Can't be bothered fighting them anymore. Like @ModRQC said, a lot is available to you in Win10. Keep the Start Menu and customize it like crazy. Mix it up with the Taskbar and you're done.


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## juice (Nov 23, 2020)

Marek07 said:


> Xtree Gold


Such a great piece of software.


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## Marek07 (Nov 23, 2020)

juice said:


> Such a great piece of software.


Indeed it was! I went through a couple of versions of XTree Gold for Windows but didn't really bond. I sometimes use ZTree when I'm feeling nostalgic but there are others in the space now. Explorer++ is no slouch.


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## juice (Nov 23, 2020)

Yeah, I use Directory Opus, love it.


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## The Edge (Nov 23, 2020)

@Marek07 I suppose it's just my experience. All the old folks I know, i.e. my dad and neighbor growing up, have moved on from windows and modding their computers like crazy. They've just switched to Apple, and just spend their time on forums and surfing the web. 

There was a time when my dad told me he could get me any program I wanted. Being a [email protected], I asked him for the professional version of ProE, which at the time, was $20k. A month later, I had a copy. The only tricky part was connecting my computer to a friends via modem, and not the internet to fool the system into accessing the licensing certificate there, and not via their servers.


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## Marek07 (Nov 23, 2020)

The Edge said:


> @Marek07 I suppose it's just my experience. All the old folks I know, i.e. my dad and neighbor growing up, have moved on from windows and modding their computers like crazy. They've just switched to Apple, and just spend their time on forums and surfing the web.


Must admit I sought out the Dark Side too. Bought a MacBook Pro earlier this year during lock-down just for something different to do. Ironically, I might have liked it decades ago but found I was too entrenched in the MS world.
A fellow old fart has lived and worked in the Apple space for decades but spends most of his time under the hood using Linux. He also programs Raspberry Pis to perform tasks whenever a new idea grabs his imagination. We're not dead yet!


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## WildBoar (Nov 23, 2020)

Went through IBMDOS, the MSDOS, then into OS2 for a server, then into NT4. I have a certain lack of fondness for all things Apple, especially since I like to be able to pull apart, diagnose and fix any issues myself (swapping components, upgrading internals, etc.). I've seen multiple Apple device failures that could only be addressed by slogging off to see the 'geniuses'.


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## juice (Nov 24, 2020)

WildBoar said:


> I've seen multiple Apple device failures that could only be addressed by slogging off to see the 'geniuses'.


It's like the OS, you're not supposed to do anything to it, just use it the way it was designed to be used as that's the perfect way.


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## The Edge (Nov 24, 2020)

WildBoar said:


> Went through IBMDOS, the MSDOS, then into OS2 for a server, then into NT4. I have a certain lack of fondness for all things Apple, especially since I like to be able to pull apart, diagnose and fix any issues myself (swapping components, upgrading internals, etc.). I've seen multiple Apple device failures that could only be addressed by slogging off to see the 'geniuses'.



To be fair, it's not just apple that has that problem, but most pre-built systems. Had a Sony for a bit, and the hard drive failed. Tried to replace it, and wouldn't install because "improper hard drive serial number". Needless to say, that was my last off the shelf system. I completely agree with fixing and upgrading on your own.


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## esoo (Nov 24, 2020)

juice said:


> It's like the OS, you're not supposed to do anything to it, just use it the way it was designed to be used as that's the perfect way.





Being the one Linux guy on my team, I got elected to try the Macbook so we could support the rest of the org. I see stuff happen on it that Windows solved over a decade ago (like unable to shutdown because a program has frozen).


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## coxhaus (Nov 25, 2020)

I hope everybody running Microsoft Windows is running Windows 10 and looking at 20H2 or have already installed 20H2. I have 20H2 running on 3 machines. The up-to-date machines upgraded quickly and 1 of the back dated machines took 2 hours to update.


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## WildBoar (Nov 25, 2020)

Weighing the pros and cons of starting to update our machines from 8.1 to 10. You can still get the update for free. We had planned on building new workstations this year but got way to busy, so we may go another 6-9 months on the current ones. I may play around during the slow week between x-mas and New Years with my machine (it's always the guinea pig)


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## DavidPF (Jan 13, 2021)

Marek07 said:


> Raspberry Pis


This sounds like a very strange disease.


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